========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 11:49:23 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: <5CE0078606DB4232965F17321A240201@OwnerPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What does exactly "weird platonism" mean? Could you explain. What is weird about them? Does that mean that one is not agreeing with what he is saying. It is easy to call someone crazy under the circumstances. It has happened quite often. I would really appreciate if someone can explain this "weirdness." Is it weird because Platonism is weird" or it is weird because he misreads Platonism or is it weird just because he was crazy? As for "wittgenstein was a terrific poet mistaken for a logician by some": that sounds a complete put down to me. It is like saying a woman should sta= y home and raise children. Jim, recently I talked to someone who had just graduated from Princeton College majoring in philosophy. It appeared to me -though he tried to cover it- he had not heard of Descartes's "cogito ergo sum." He had failed to pic= k up a reference to it. I understand the whole philosophy department at Princeton focuses on symbolic logic? No Plato, no Descartes -all relegated to the realm of "poetry," etc. Is tha= t what one means by "weird," that it is not symbolic logic? Ciao, Murat On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 11:13 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: > just going to chime in with my usual response to this statement that i >> think he understood godel fine, >> > > o i think you're mistaken, jason, fer a change. the best thing i've read > about godel/wittgenstein is by Rebecca Goldstein at > http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/goldstein05/goldstein05_index.html . if > you > search it for wittgenstein, you'll come across this, for instance: > > "Wittgenstein never accepted G=F6del's result; he said in The Foundations= of > Mathematics, posthumously published, that his task is not to discuss G=F6= del, > but rather to bypass G=F6del. He also called G=F6del's results the tricks= of a > logical conjurer, logical artifices." > > but the whole above url is quite fascinating. strongly recommended! > > here is what godel said: > > "As far as my theorem about undecidable propositions is > concerned, it is indeed clear ... that Wittgenstein did not > understand it (or pretended not to understand it). He > interprets it as a kind of logical paradox, while in fact it is > just the opposite, namely a mathematical theorem within > an absolutely uncontroversial part of mathematics > (finitary number theory or combinatorics)". > > > > i think he got the better of turing in their debates, >> > > i'm not familiar with any debates between them. sounds interesting. what > documentation exists of these debates? > > > and that his view of what mathematics are is much closer to what's >> probably right than Godel's weird platonism. >> > > the veracity of godel's results in mathematical logic do not depend on hi= s > "weird platonism" at all, of course, as i expect you fully understand. > > godel's platonism got weird toward the end of his life. > > godel starved himself to death out of paranoia about his food being > poisoned. he suffered from mental issues toward the end of his life. his > extreme platonism is associated with his period of decline, not his > earlier, > more robust period, when he published his famous results. the poor guy we= nt > off his rocker, finally. > > wittgenstein was a terrific poet mistaken for a logician by some. i am > partial to such poets. > > ja > http://vispo.com > july 29 2010 > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 08:36:22 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Catherine Daly Subject: Fwd: forwarded message from Louis Bourgeois In-Reply-To: <4c52e7cb.11b9.b67a3b90.1af377b5@olemiss.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 This is forwarded from another list. The contact person is Louis Bourgeois at http://voxpressonline.com/ this may be his publisher address as well as the submissions address: louis-bourgeois at hotmail dot com VOX PRESS, INC (a non-profit literary press in Oxford, Mississippi) is in its initial stages of organizing a literary symposium for the summer of 2011, in Oxford. Mississippi. The purpose of the symposium will be to examine the current state of small press literary publishing, with particular emphasis on the problems and challenges faced by small presses and the resources and innovations that publishers like yourself are using to achieve your mission. In order for VOX to have a better understanding of how the small press literary world might benefit most from this event, please take a few moments and respond to the following questions: Based upon your experience, what are the key challenges and concerns that small presses face today? (Please list in order of importance.) On a scale of 1 to 6 (with 1 meaning "not at all interested" and 6 meaning "extremely interested"), how interested would you be in attending a symposium designed to examine and address these challenges? If you would be interested in attending this type of symposium, which of the challenges and concerns that you identified would you most like to included in the event? (Please list in order of preference.) What resources, innovations, solutions, etc. have you found to be most useful in addressing the challenges and concerns that you face in your work? What type of formats and activities (e.g., formal presentations, panel discussions, workshops, "best practice" presentations, etc.) would be most useful for examining and addressing these concerns in a symposium setting? Have you or any other members of your press ever participated in a literary symposium or festival of this sort? If so, did you find that to be a satisfying experience? How could it have been improved? What specific benefits did you gain from participating? If you are interested in this type of symposium, can you think of any problems or obstacles that might prevent you from attending and/or participating in the event? Would you be interested in leading a workshop or participating in a panel discussion on one of the topics that you have identified above? (While the topics will be largely determined by the responses of potential participants, topics for the symposium might include: goals and strategies for greater inclusiveness, the role of new technologies, etc.) Would you be interested in writing an essay and/or giving a lecture on the theme: What Is the Current State and/or the Future of Literary Small Press Publishing in the 21st Century? Are there other related themes about which you would be interested in writing an essay and/or giving a lecture? Finally, are there any other issues that you would like to raise or recommendations that you would like to make for us at this time as we begin the initial planning for this event? Thank you for your response. Your comments and recommendations will play a vital role in the design and implementation of a literary symposium for you and your colleagues in the small press community. Hi everybody, You could send replies to me and I would forward them to Louis, my ex-student and friend. best wishes, Ann FW ______________ WOMPO Headers -- OT - Off Topic; CFW - Calls for Work; POL - Political Archives and subscription settings -- http://lists.ncc.edu/scripts/wa.exe?A0=WOM-PO -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 11:50:54 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "Wittgenstein never accepted Gödel's result; he said in The Foundations of Mathematics, posthumously published, that his task is not to discuss Gödel, but rather to bypass Gödel. He also called Gödel's results the tricks of a logical conjurer, logical artifices." from http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/goldstein05/goldstein05_index.html my feeling is that there was no room for godel's work in wittgenstein's world view. he needed to not discuss godel but to bypass him. wittgenstein's work in mathematical logic is not even remotely as important as that of godel. and godel's work is beautiful in a way that challenges any poet writing pretty conjectures and enigmatic pronouncements. it's beautiful and it's true. it's expressed in proofs that have stood the test of time. it uses the equally beautiful work of georg cantor, uses his diagonal argument (which was also used later by turing). it's the most significant work of mathematical logic of the twentieth century. it eclipses the work of any poet on mathematical logic. it redefines the poetry and philosophy of mathematical logic. i think wittgenstein thought this sort of genuinely remarkable work in meta mathematics was simply impossible, that it was 'unsayable', and that his own sort of poetry was as good as it got. godel shows us what really excellent work in mathematical logic is. ja http://vispo.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 10:54:31 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Throughout this discussion, I contemplated a major edit to a softly-published (blogspot) poem, which contrasts scientific and spiritual ways of understanding. It always read ambiguously, so I finally cleaned it up in order to make the ambivalence more pronounced. FIT LANGUAGE after Richard Dawkins science doesn't unweave the poetry of a rainbow but justly strips the gods of shuttle and warped claims with sparkling webs which trick and trap then ungraciously collapse when fitter words appear explaining why life is too short for many their meager bliss snuffed out and for others too long moments of joy and terror are not balanced with the precision of a blind watchmaker or blamed on a reckless devil's chaplain who adapts to survive innocent of intent is cause a humbler palliation or is it true everything happens for a reason Mary Jo -- http://thisshiningwound.blogspot.com/ http://apophisdeconstructingabsurdity.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 00:18:23 +1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Young Subject: Otoliths #18 is now live MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Issue 18, the southern winter 2010 issue, of Otolithshas just gone live. Let's get the obvious pun out of the way first. This is an august issue. It's packed with text in its many forms=97as story, essay, review, or poem= =97as well as a wide range of visual media: collages, frottages, glyphs, postcards, paintings, notebook pages & some great new vispo. Included in the issue are Emma Smith, Eileen R. Tabios, Mark Cunningham, Ed Baker, Piotr Gwiazda, Anne Gorrick, Ed Higgins, Jukka-Pekka Kervinen, Manfred Weidhorn, Carlos Soto-Rom=E1n, Sally Ann McIntyre, James Maughn, Ma= rk Francis Johnson, Sheila E. Murphy, Amanda Earl, Orchid Tierney, Philip Byro= n Oakes, Raymond Farr, Joe Balaz, Randall Brock, Meaghan Lank, Jeff Harrison, Mary Kasimor, Bruno Neiva, Benjamin Winkler, M. V. Montgomery, Ric Carfagna= , Jessica Breheny, Jal Nicholl, Alexander Jorgensen, Mark Stricker, Reed Altemus, Jenny Enochsson, Felino Soriano, Corey Wakeling, Grzegorz Wr=F3blewski, Lars Palm, Thomas Fink, Dorothee Lang & Steve Wing, Larry Sawyer, Paul Siegell, Beth Boettcher, Charles Freeland, Jake David, M=E1rto= n Kopp=E1ny, Katrinka Moore, Aidan Semmens, Connor Stratman, Stephen Nelson & Mike Cannell, SJ Fowler, Cath Vidler, Cecelia Chapman, rob mclennan, Cherie Hunter Day, Neil Ellman, Geof Huth, R. Riekki, Tony Brinkley, sean burn, Scott Metz, Travis Macdonald, Stuart Barnes, Spencer Selby, Keith Higginbotham, Sam Langer, Tony Rickaby, Bob Heman, Andrew Topel, Andrew Taylor, John Martone, Brad Vogler, Bobbi Lurie, Michael Brandonisio, Yonah Korngold, J. D. Nelson, Tyler L. Gobble reviewing Adam Robinson's *Say, Poe= m *, Sheila E. Murphy reviewing *Out of the Box: Contemporary Australian Gay and Lesbian Poets*, Cassie Eddington, & Colleen Lookingbill. Enough there, & of sufficient variety, to keep everybody happy. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 13:26:36 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: July writers @ Everday Genius MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Need more summer reading? Check out the July writers=20 at EVERYDAY GENIUS edited by Kate Zambreno Affinity Konar=20 Chris Kraus=20 Suzanne Scanlon=20 Janice Lee=20 J=E2=80=99Lyn Chapman=20 Megan Milks=20 Caroline Picard=20 Rachel Levitsky=20 Colleen O=E2=80=99Connor=20 Jennifer Karmin=20 Roz Ito=20 Vanessa Place=20 Hildebrand Pam Dick=20 Danielle Dutton=20 Danielle Pafunda=20 Bhanu Kapil=20 Ariana Reines=20 Janey Smith=20 Laura Goldstein=20 Rachel Gontijo Ara=C3=BAjo=20 Rebecca Loudon=20 Dodie Bellamy=20 Kate Durbin=20 http://www.everyday-genius.com/2010_07_01_archive.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 02:23:49 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jesse Glass Subject: The France Issue of Ekleksographia is now on-line! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" http://ekleksographia.ahadadabooks.com/france/ Lots of great stuff! Enjoy! Jess ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 20:45:54 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jared Schickling Subject: RENOEMOS, by Rachel Levitsky, is now available from Delete Press Comments: To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable July 31=2C 2010 Dear All=2C=20 DELETE PRESS is proud to announce the release of Renoemos=2C by=20 Rachel Levitsky. This conjuring=2C surreal=2C metapoetic=2C feminist=2C=20 masculine and funny prose excursion=97=93imagination challenged the feeling= =20 by providing him specific images of himself=94=97is this celebrated author= =92s debut book of fiction. Printed in an edition of 110=2C arriving enclosed=20 in a sleek waxpaper envelope=2C the first 80 in their own original=20 slipcover=2C for the shelf life of water soluble linocut covers=2C hand=20 sewn=97the book is priced at $12=2C which includes shipping. Secure orders= =20 can be placed through the Delete Press website=2C or please query first if check or money order is preferable. =20 Rachel Levitsky is the author of the book length serial poems Under the Sun= (Futurepoem Books=2C 2003) and NEIGHBOR (Ugly Duckling Presse=2C 2009)=2C = as well as several chapbooks: Dearly=2C 3=2C 4=2C 6=2C (Duration Press=2C 2= 005)=3B The Adventures of Yaya and Grace (Potes & Poets=2C 1999)=3B Dearly= =2C (a+bend press=2C 1999)=3B Cartographies of Error (Leroy=2C 1999)=3B and= 2(1x1)Portraits (Baksun Books=2C 1998). Her first novel=2C The Story of My= Accident Is Ours=2C is forthcoming (Futurepoem=2C 2011). Four mini-essays on the Poetics of=20 Confinement can be found online at the Poetry Project=92s Project Blog.=20 She teaches writing and literature at Naropa University=92s summer writing program=2C Bard Prison Initiative=2C and Pratt Institute. She is the=20 founder and co-curator of Belladonna Series. Happy reading to all=2C we look forward to hearing from you. On behalf of Delete Press=2C Jared=20 deletepress.org deletepress@gmail.com = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:19:57 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: <5CE0078606DB4232965F17321A240201@OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) I know that's the fashionable view among mathematicians and =20 philosophers of mathematics who don't want to have to address the fact =20= that Wittgenstein called them out for a level of metaphysical =20 spookiness that most don't want to admit to like good scientific =20 materialists, but that argument, including Godel's remarks on the =20 matter, doesn't really comprehend what's going on in the remarks on =20 the foundations of mathematics where Godel sentences are being =20 discussed. It's also, I think, quite uncharitable to attribute that =20 imprecision of thought to attribute the mistake that Wittgenstein is =20 supposed to have made (that is, thinking that the incompleteness =20 theorem was somehow incorrect) to a mathematical logician capable of =20 holding his own among the likes of Bertrand Russell, Frank Ramsey, and =20= John Maynard Keynes, Alan Turing, and Piero Sraffa, all of whom were =20 in some way influenced by him at some point. Wittgenstein didn't =20 dismiss or misunderstand the result, it's just that on his view of how =20= mathematics worked, which was influenced by Brouwer and his own work =20 on Frege and Russell's views, it's relatively trivial that there are =20 true but unprovable statements in any significantly complex formal =20 system, which is the only consequence of the theorem that he ever =20 wrote anything about and even then, only as notes to himself for =20 lectures and not anything he intended for public consumption. My guess =20= is that he'd probably argue the law of the excluded middle would be =20 such a proposition true but unprovable assumption in Brouwer's system =20= for example. I think in Wittgenstein's view that would be more or less =20= an obvious result of the constructed nature of mathematical language =20 that he maintained at least from 1930 until the end of his life. but what matters is that the remarks on the foundations of mathematics =20= are primarily aimed at Russell and Whitehead's attempt in the =20 Principles of Mathematics to ground arithmetic in formal logic, and =20 where he probably screwed up was in his remarks about set theory, =20 although I'm not convinced that that rejection isn't more of a =20 reaction to the strange metaphysical character of sets themselves as =20 opposed to any real trouble with the mathematics. As such, I think the =20= Godel remarks really can only be read as a misunderstanding of =20 incompleteness when they aren't seen in the light of being made really =20= as an attack on the if you're curious, Hilary Putnam and Juliet Floyd put forward an =20 interesting reading of the "Notorious" paragraphs about the =20 Incompleteness Theorem. P&F argues rather convincingly, I think, that =20= Wittgenstein's remarks on Godel are actually about problems of =20 translation from sentence letters in PM as a result of what Godel had =20= shown. That is, that the results reveal a semantic problem in moving =20 from formalized semantics of the sort that are provably complete (like =20= Russell's system) but not, hypothetically, consistent to natural =20 language semantics. Which, if they're right and that is what he was =20 talking about in that fairly gnomic paragraph, is a pretty interesting =20= insight into what the first incompleteness theorem establishes. P&F go =20= so far as to make the case that he was actually anticipating something =20= like model theory, and I think that's a bit of a stretch because I =20 don't know that Wittgenstein would have cared all that much for how =20 Tarski conceptualized models, but he does make a good case. The paper =20= is here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/88248/Wittgenstein-on-Godel and =20 some defenses of objections to it by people who really want to save =20 the "wittgenstein didn't understand math, so what use is he as a =20 philosopher" argument here: = http://www.bu.edu/philo/faculty/Ramharter_vol_on_Goedel.pdf Also, it should be remembered Wittgenstein only saw in the original =20 paper by Godel with its reliance on the Skolem lemma and without the =20 benefit of the many adjunct improvements on the theory, or indeed =20 Kleene's Church-Turing thesis about computability drawing on the =20 lambda calculus and Turing's work with the halting problem--which i =20 think represents the first real synthesis of all the previosly occult =20= and esoteric work on algorithms and computability into something more =20= interesting than just poking David Hilbert's corpse with a sharp =20 stick--didn't appear until after poor uncle ludwig had passed on. =20 Which is to say, when W was writing about Godel in 1937, what matters =20= in understanding Wittgenstein on Godel is Wittgenstein didn't care at =20= all about the big issue results of the first incompleteness theorem, =20 that is that there can't be a complete formalization of mathematics =20 even as basic a mathematics as Peano Arithmetic that is complete and =20 consistent. Which, again, was something that Wittgenstein felt he'd =20 more or less demonstrated in the Tractatus, and seemed very much like =20= a non sequitur to him, when the real issues in matehmatics was to =20 combat the insidious philosophical importations present in formalism =20 and platonism. which, notably, the incompleteness theorems as you say =20= are completely agnostic towards. The Turing/Wittgenstein discussions are really great and I highly =20 recommend them. They're transcribed in a book called Wittgenstein's =20 Lectures on the Foundations of Mathematics 1939, which is based on the =20= shorthand transcripts of, I think, Rush Rhees, Alice Ambrose, GH von =20 Wright, Peter Geach and Norman Malcolm. I think reasonable people can =20= disagree about who got the upper hand more often, but seeing the two =20 of them go back and forth is pretty astonishing and I'm forever =20 jealous of the people who were in the room to watch it as it happened. Also, I think you're giving him a bit of a short shrift as a logician. =20= He did invent truth tables, after all, and that's a fairly significant =20= contribution, as is the notion of "truth conditions" which first =20 appears in the tractatus and is now more or less indispensable in =20 talking about semantics in logical terms. On Jul 29, 2010, at 8:13 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: >> just going to chime in with my usual response to this statement =20 >> that i >> think he understood godel fine, > > o i think you're mistaken, jason, fer a change. the best thing i've =20= > read > about godel/wittgenstein is by Rebecca Goldstein at > http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/goldstein05/goldstein05_index.html . =20= > if you > search it for wittgenstein, you'll come across this, for instance: > > "Wittgenstein never accepted G=F6del's result; he said in The =20 > Foundations of > Mathematics, posthumously published, that his task is not to discuss =20= > G=F6del, > but rather to bypass G=F6del. He also called G=F6del's results the =20 > tricks of a > logical conjurer, logical artifices." > > but the whole above url is quite fascinating. strongly recommended! > > here is what godel said: > > "As far as my theorem about undecidable propositions is > concerned, it is indeed clear ... that Wittgenstein did not > understand it (or pretended not to understand it). He > interprets it as a kind of logical paradox, while in fact it is > just the opposite, namely a mathematical theorem within > an absolutely uncontroversial part of mathematics > (finitary number theory or combinatorics)". > > >> i think he got the better of turing in their debates, > > i'm not familiar with any debates between them. sounds interesting. =20= > what > documentation exists of these debates? > >> and that his view of what mathematics are is much closer to what's >> probably right than Godel's weird platonism. > > the veracity of godel's results in mathematical logic do not depend =20= > on his > "weird platonism" at all, of course, as i expect you fully understand. > > godel's platonism got weird toward the end of his life. > > godel starved himself to death out of paranoia about his food being > poisoned. he suffered from mental issues toward the end of his life. =20= > his > extreme platonism is associated with his period of decline, not his =20= > earlier, > more robust period, when he published his famous results. the poor =20 > guy went > off his rocker, finally. > > wittgenstein was a terrific poet mistaken for a logician by some. i am > partial to such poets. > > ja > http://vispo.com > july 29 2010 > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 > guidelines & sub/unsub info: = http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 16:21:22 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) yeah, but reading him as a positivist is a total misunderstanding of his work. The reason that stuff shows up in positivism is because carnap and weissman completely misunderstood the tractatus as saying something it definitely was not, ie those things that can't be talked about or empirically investigated are themselves worthless and nonexistent. which is not the case. he just thought LANGUAGE about those things was nonsensical, but not that whatever the language about htose things was trying to express was delusional or wrong. that's where his mysticism lies, which is what very few people, including I think most wittgenstein scholars, fail to appreciate. I'm in fairly good company with my reading though, because I think Ray Monk and Jurgen Habermas's readings of him coincide with mine, albeit with a few differences. for that second argument to work you'd have to accept something like David Lewis's resolution to the problem of universals which relies on set theory and modal realism, which I just don't buy. Again, I'll appeal to wittgenstein's remark that "when you are learning spelling you also learn how to spell the word "spelling" but no one calls this a second order spelling." or to put it another way, to quote dennett's sarcastic remark about a wittgensteinian ordinary language philosopher "if it can't be expressed in first order predicate logic, it's probably incorrect and meaningless." I just really disagree with the notion that Wittgenstein held to anything like the idea that language was absolute and final in any way. Rather he thought it was limited, amorphous, changeable, and in no way capable of covering the wider extent of human life, which for him was a precondition for language that meaning requires. hence the comment "if a lion could talk we would not understand him." And again, I'll return to probably the poorest understood aspect of wittgenstein's view of language which is that the things that can not be said can in fact be shown. they can be demonstrated. they can be pointed at indexically. what they can't be is explained, described, discussed, or whatever. If i want you to understand a religious experience, for example, i might give you a set of instructions that might allow you to recreate the experience for yourself, but if i start trying to describe it, then I begin to start talking in a way that isn't strictly meaningful in the way that other propositions are. Which, again, is why "philosophy ought to be written only as a form of poetry." Because poetic language is capable of showing in a way that ordinary language is not. As for the Arcades project, it sounds really interesting, but it also doesn't sound like the same use of the word "true" as one uses in talking about propositions and the truth functions of logic and reasoning. Here again, the later wittgenstein is informative and i would appeal to the notion of family resemblances. Just because one uses the same word doesn't mean one is saying the same thing. And it sounds to me like what you're talking about in the arcades project is something with a kinship to the truth that exists in rational argument, but that is not fully the same thing. And I think that's fair and Wittgenstein would allow for that. Again, to me whatever disagreement we seem to have, and I don't think it's a huge one, seems to be over how to understand what Wittgenstein believed about language. So far I don't really think there's much that you've pointed at that doesn't fit into his conception of language in some way. On Jul 29, 2010, at 8:33 AM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > Jason, > > a) A few other condescending attributions by Wittgenstein: > "Nonsensical," > "bewitchment of language." All he had to add was "young and > foolish," "wet > behind the ears humanity. "Nonsensical" is a logical positivist term; > "bewitchment of language" is just a more "poetic" expression of the > same > thought. Personally, I have grave doubts how far W.' moved away from > his > logical positivist origins at Cambridge. > > b) As transfinite sets imply, any set can finally be broken to > become the > subset of another set, ad infinitum -building, breaking down and > rebuilding... That way the distinction between "language" and "a > language," > as you put it, does not really exist. If so, there is not much > difference > between Witgenstein's "Language." and Benjamin's "ideal language." > In this > specific sense, in his use of the concept of "language," one might > argue > that W. -the quintessential liberal Christian Jew- was a cabbalist. > > The difference, it seems to me, between W. and B. is that for W. > "language" > is a final absolute, therefore, unsayable. Surprisingly, > counter-intuitively, for B. "ideal language" is not. B's "ideal > language > constantly breaks down, reforms, expands itself. It is a process, a > continuous one. > > Here one come, I think, to Benjamin's rebuttal of Wittgenstein > within the > framework, body of language itself, how language constantly, > continuously > breaks out of its limits towards the unsayable -which in its turn > may create > new fields of the unsayable: in the central importance of quotations > and > fragments (deterioration, fragmentation) in his writing, in his > rhetorical > ideal. Quotations are meta-factual. They are conjectural gestures, a > rhetoric of possibilities, potentialities. They are on the level of > language > also always true (they are quoting someone) regardless of what they > are > saying. By definition quotations also are always fragments, taken > from a > larger whole. They need complementation (one of the constant features, > themes in this thread has been to bring in what W. said before or > after the > specific discussed passage). When quotations are placed together, > the need > for complementation occurs across their jagged edges empowering the > empty > space among them. This is the unsayable, spiritual space. > > *The Arcades Project* resolves the dilemma, blind alley W's thought > leads > us. It creates a detailed analysis of the physical, ethical, > emotional, > spiritual, intellectual analysis of the past continuing into the > present (he > called it "dialectical history). Here W's distinction between > factual and > ethical (nonsensical, etc.) has disappeared, has been resolved > (that's why > Adorno hated The Arcades Project writings so much and wanted to edit > them > out -they were too "redeptive," not positivist enough). > > c) Jason, you say: > "I don't see how it you can have sentence that is true or false > without it > referring to an object and then predicating some quality to the > object. You > don't need subject-predicate word order to get that, but if you > could give > me an example of a statement that is capable of being true or false > without > having some kind of predicate, I might be able to grasp what you're > getting > at. To me, the fact that propositions contain predicates seems > tautological." > > As I said, The Arcades Project is such an example. Through > quotations (in > which Benjamin's own ideas also function as quotations), Benjamin > makes > statements (in the shape of gestures), not about "the world/ > realty,"; but > about language where the distinction W. makes through abstraction > does not > exist. All the dimensions of thought and experience -ethics, > history, facts, > etc. etc,- blur, blend into each other. Since humanity experiences > "reality" > through language and its manners of regeneration, Benjamin's method > seems to > me much less nonsensical or "bewitchment" of reality than > Wittgenstein'. > > d) I am glad that you see words like "nonsensical, etc. should lose > their > negative connotations. But, of we do so, doesn't Wittgenstein tragic > sense > of life, which poets are so drawn to, basically vanish? > > GREAT THREAD. THANK YOU. > > Ciao, > > Murat > > > On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 1:59 PM, Murat Nemet-Nejat > wrote: > >> Jason, David, Jim, >> >> This thread has become so vast, in a very good way, so that I do >> not know >> how to respond to each (particularly to Jason's meticulous >> arguments), >> unless I spend a trans-finite portion of my day doing it, not that >> that >> would be a bad thing. >> >> Jason, first let me respond to what you are saying. I think there >> is more >> we agree with on Wittgenstein than we disagree with. My objection >> to him is >> in the use and consequences of his rhetoric and his effect on >> poetry and >> poetics in the United States. It narrows the possibilities of poetry, >> particularly the way Language School applied his ideas. Let me >> explain what >> I mean: >> >> a) It is true that Wittgenstein will not deny that the subject- >> predicate >> structure is not the only way a sentence can be constructed; but he >> delegates every other structure to second class by calling it >> "meaningless," >> unable to be expressed as "true or false," etc. (I need to go back >> to the >> text and choose a few more words with the same rhetorical effect). >> >> But who has decided that the nature of *reality* consists (must >> express >> itself) as true or false and everything else is peripheral, >> secondary. That >> is a profound, unquestioned assumption on Wittgenstein's part the >> validity >> of which to me is much less clear -in fact, to be honest about it, is >> clearly "false." >> >> I am more on the side of what Heraclitus says and David quotes: >> >> ""The most beautiful world is a heap of rubble tossed down in >> confusion/at >> random." >> >> We see truth, if at all, through a glass darkly, which also >> constantly >> changes, is fluid. "Factual," "ethical," "pilosophical," even >> "scientific" >> values blur are very rarely distinct (a clear demarcation between >> objective >> and subjective basically impossible), and to build a reality >> structure on a >> fundementalist distinction between true and false (which W. does by >> privileging a prepositional view of what is real, as opposed to >> unsayable) >> is foolhardy. A poet's job, it seems to me, is exactly to deal with >> that >> unsayable -shall we consider ourselves to be dealing with nonsense >> or, as >> Language School or it follower Flarf does, indulging in language >> games or >> google games. >> >> I do not disagree that we are may be doomed (The Spiritual Life of >> Replicants deals with that issue) to grasp reality only through >> language >> -but that *does not mean* that we have to do it by entering only >> through >> one straight straight straight gate -the prepositional sentence. >> >> David, >> I think we agree in our view of Grenier. I was not aware Grenier's >> later >> work was blacklisted by Language School poets. At least they >> realized what >> he was getting at and his pursuit went awry from their approach to >> poetry. >> >> Ciao, >> >> Murat >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 3:56 AM, Jason Quackenbush >> wrote: >> >>> Hey Murat, thanks for the excellent counterpoint. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> "6.41 The sense of the world must lie outside the world. In the >>>> world >>>> everything is as it is and happens as it does happen. In it there >>>> is no >>>> value -- and if there were, it would be of no value." >>>> >>>> Do you not see the circularity of Wittgenstein's argument? While >>>> he pays >>>> lip >>>> service to by being "sympathetic" to ethical impulses, he >>>> condescends to >>>> it >>>> and relegates it to subservient category. If he can not talk >>>> "meaningfully" >>>> about something, then he does not talk about it. Therefore, that >>>> thing >>>> becomes invisible: "he didn't write about it because he >>>> couldn't." On a >>>> grand scale, is this argument any different from the drunkard who >>>> looks >>>> for >>>> the key under the light because that's where the light is, not >>>> necessarily >>>> where the key is? >>>> >>> >>> I don't see circularity, but rather the elucidation of a >>> tautology. But >>> I'm not terribly inclined to defend the argument of the tractatus, >>> as I >>> don't think it's particularly useful except as an example of where >>> he was >>> coming from in his later more compelling world. There are huge >>> flaws in the >>> tractatus, my favorite being the summation of Prop. 7 (the famous >>> "whereof >>> we cannot speak, therof we must remain silent") given by Frank >>> Ramsey's >>> translation "You can't say what you can't say and you can't >>> whistle it >>> either." >>> >>> To the drunk looking for his keys analogy, I think there's a bit >>> of that, >>> and I think some of it is even intentional. That sort of >>> uselessness of the >>> actual arguments is I think part of what he had in mind in saying >>> that the >>> tractatus was meant to be a ladder that you could kick away once >>> you climbed >>> to the top. >>> >>> >>> >>>> Wittgenstein never explores or goes after that "outside" world >>>> ("the >>>> sense >>>> of the world"). His thinking concerns itself only with what "as >>>> it is and >>>> happens as it does happen." >>>> >>> >>> On the contrary, I think he doesn't think that stuff matters at >>> all. In >>> fact in his journals and in the brown books, he's almost >>> dismissive of that >>> part of experience as stuff that can be through empirical science. >>> It just >>> isn't the proper object of philosophy to deal with that stuff. It's >>> empirical and there are other ways of thinking about it that are >>> more >>> fruitful. >>> >>> >>> Here I think an analysis of syntax is important -specifically the >>> English >>>> syntax, composed of subject and predicate- is important. That is >>>> the >>>> syntax >>>> for an empirical view of the world -where things either happen >>>> (are true) >>>> or >>>> don't happen (are not true). Wittgeinstein accepts this >>>> implicitly as the >>>> paradigm, as far as I can tell, with defending why. >>>> >>> >>> well, he's talking about propositions, which by definition are >>> sentences >>> that can be true or false. Much of what precedes the quoted >>> section deals >>> with what propositions are, how they work, how they relate to >>> facts, what >>> facts are etc. And again, i think this is a fair criticism because >>> this >>> notion of the proposition as a thing at all arises from from >>> Russell and >>> Whiteheads elucidation of the predicate calculus in The Principals >>> of >>> Mathematics. That said, I'm not entirely sure I understand what the >>> distinction you're drawing is, but I do think that we have lots of >>> sentences >>> in English which aren't propositions at all, and I think that's >>> part of what >>> the tractatus and in particular the first part of Philosophical >>> investigations is trying to get at: that is, there are these parts >>> of the >>> world we can talk about where the notions of truth and falsity >>> apply, and >>> there's this other part which is more loose but that allows for a >>> wider >>> range of meaning than mere propositions do, and there is a wider >>> part of >>> that that carries neither truth value nor meaning and in that >>> there are a >>> wide variety of kinds of meaninglessness, nonsense, and >>> senselessness. I >>> don't think wittgenstein would necessarily disagree with you that >>> it's a >>> mistake to consider the subject predicate syntax as somehow >>> decisive about >>> the world, in fact I think the first 100 or so remarks of >>> Philosophical >>> Investigations are precisely an attack on that kind of view. >>> >>> >>> Now, instead, consider a syntactical structure replete with >>> conjunctive >>>> forms (a syntax of possibilities, of potential thought) -as the >>>> agglutinative Turkish syntax is, which records thought in the >>>> process of >>>> emerging (once again, see *Eda Anthology*), not as true or false >>>> but as >>>> process, then a philosophical view of such a world would be totally >>>> different -pre-analytic, much more inclusive, in which a >>>> "subject-predicate" >>>> construction is only a part. >>>> >>>> "If there is a value which is of value, it must lie outside all >>>> happening >>>> and being-so. For all happening and being-so is accidental. >>>> What makes it non-accidental cannot lie in the world, for >>>> otherwise this >>>> would again be accidental. >>>> >>>> It must lie outside the world." >>>> >>>> Here Wittgenstein is practicing, is following Hume's radical >>>> skepticism >>>> about the "innate logic" of reality to which the continental >>>> philosophy >>>> (from Spinoza to Kant, etc.) is a counterpoint. >>>> >>> >>> Here I think you're misreading. part of this, tho, is that he's >>> defined >>> "the world" early on as a particularly limited sort of thing. "The >>> world is >>> everything that is the case." again, this is part of what he >>> rejects later >>> in his earlier thinking, and I don't think even he would defend >>> it. But it >>> isn't precisely a recitation of the is/ought problem per se, but >>> rather I >>> think a more nuanced assertion about the nature of "oughts" >>> themselves. It's >>> not a skeptical idea about moral facts, or at least its not just >>> that, but >>> rather a statement about whether we're able to say meaningful >>> things about >>> moral facts. Again, even the phrase "moral facts" he'd probably >>> disavow as >>> not meaninful in someway, but I think the basic form of what he'd >>> say is >>> "well, if you want to be a radical skeptic, go ahead, but the >>> statement that >>> there are not moral facts is just as meaningless as the statement >>> that there >>> are moral facts. You're still stuck in the flybottle if you're >>> even trying >>> to have that conversation. You'll get nowhere, best to come at it >>> from a >>> different angle." >>> >>> Also, there's an important aspect to all this that the section I >>> quoted >>> doesn't mention, and that's the notion (most recently argued for >>> by Cora >>> Diamond I believe) that while wittgenstein thought that there were >>> all sorts >>> of things that couldn't be said, you could still use language to >>> show the >>> things that you can't talk about. Sadly, Wittgenstein never >>> addresses CS >>> Peirce directly in the surviving nachlass, although I'm fairly >>> certain he >>> must have grappled with him at some point because Frank Ramsey >>> thought that >>> there was in pragmatism a way out of the box the tractatus seems >>> to draw, >>> and there's certainly something like James and Peirce style >>> pragmatism in >>> his thinking that shows up by the time he dictated the brown book, >>> and it's >>> hard for me to see his later conception of "meaning as use" as >>> anything >>> other than a kind of pragmatism, albeit not the kind that Richard >>> Rorty >>> thought it was. >>> >>> My point here again though is that what he was grappling with was >>> a theory >>> of language that seemed to constantly shut down any attempts to >>> say things >>> about a certain widely experienced and hugely important aspect of >>> human >>> life, and I think he saw it in a nearly tragic light, which is why >>> I think >>> he was so happy to describe the attribution of meaning to certain >>> kinds of >>> nonsense as "bewitchment by language." because it seems like you >>> should be >>> able to talk about these things, and we feel like when we're >>> talking about >>> them that we're saying meaningful things, but it's only when we >>> reflect on >>> what that might really mean that we have to realize that we have >>> know way of >>> knowing whether what we've said communicates what we hoped or not. >>> As such, >>> this becomes a much more epistemological than metaphysical >>> position, and >>> indeed I think that's how he ended up approaching the issue. >>> >>> >>> "6.42 Hence also there can be no ethical propositions." >>>> >>>> Here one can see W's circular thinking in practice. >>>> >>> >>> Again, it's important to note that he's talking about propositions >>> and not >>> sentences, or even more importantly signs. I think he would be ok >>> with the >>> idea of ethical signifiers. >>> >>> >>> "Propositions cannot express anything higher." >>>> >>>> Yes, this is true if the only possible or valid linguistic >>>> structure >>>> having >>>> any hold to reality consisted of the propositions, that is to say, >>>> subject-predicate structure. >>>> >>>> This is a priori assumption on W's part having >>>> to do, as far as I can see, very little connection to reality, >>>> the state >>>> state in which language function. Subject=predicate is a mere >>>> abstraction >>>> from it. >>>> >>>> I don't see how it you can have sentence that is true or false >>>> without >>> it referring to an object and then predicating some quality to the >>> object. >>> You don't need subject-predicate word order to get that, but if >>> you could >>> give me an example of a statement that is capable of being true or >>> false >>> without having some kind of predicate, I might be able to grasp >>> what you're >>> getting at. To me, the fact that propositions contain predicates >>> seems >>> tautological. >>> >>> >>> >>>> "6.43 If good or bad willing changes the world, it can only >>>> change the >>>> limits of the world, not the facts; not the things that can be >>>> expressed >>>> in >>>> language." >>>> >>>> It seems to me wrong. If you change the limits of language (more >>>> specifically of *a* language, that's why the importance of >>>> translation), >>>> you >>>> are changing what can be said in it. As I said, here lies the >>>> crucial >>>> importance of translation and Benjamin's thought about it -on >>>> disintegration, fragmentation, etc. >>>> >>> but when he's talking about the limits of language he means the >>> limits of >>> language, not the limits of a language. he's talking about what >>> can and >>> can't be talked about, full stop, not some concept that might be >>> expressable >>> in one language but difficult to express in another. He's talking >>> about what >>> it means for a sentence to have meaning at all, not whether it is >>> understood >>> as intended. And I think part of the big reason that Benjamin is >>> unsatisfying to me on that score is that he relies so heavily on >>> intention >>> toward signified objects, and where that goes I follow >>> wittgenstein into a >>> severe skepticism about that sort of semiotic notion. it's not at >>> all clear >>> what such an object is, and if I recall correctly Benjamin uses >>> various >>> words for "bread" in different languages as an example. Well ok, >>> bread is >>> pain is brot is pan is lechem is naan is pita is tortilla is >>> chapati is ... >>> ? which do you intend? some ideal form of bread in the mind of >>> god? a >>> privately held abstraction that we take on faith is in someway >>> similar to >>> the private object in the mind of another party to the >>> conversation? really? >>> but what if I sit down at the table and choke a bit and say >>> "bread!" do i >>> really intend that same thing even tho my meaning is similar? no, >>> not >>> really, i mean, I'm choking, give me bread so i can try to >>> swallow. same >>> word. same object in the real world i'd signify by saying "this >>> bread is >>> excellent." completely different meaning. And meaning is what >>> Wittgenstein >>> is concerned with. >>> >>> >>> "In brief, the world must thereby become quite another, it must so >>> to >>>> speak >>>> wax or wane as a whole. >>>> >>>> The world of the happy is quite another than that of the unhappy." >>>> >>>> W. ignores the consequences of what he is saying here. >>>> >>> >>> On the contrary, I think he's very conscious of them. I'm not sure >>> what >>> you mean he ignores them? >>> >>> >>> "6.44 Not how the world is, is the mystical, but that it is." >>>> >>>> This sentence remind me of Einstein's "God does not play dice >>>> with the >>>> universe." Cute, what it does not enter Einstein's thoughts in >>>> physics >>>> (unless I misunderstand him). >>>> >>>> I'd argue with that. I think it's a succint & pithy expression of >>> Einstein's strong commitment to instrumentalism in scientific >>> reasoning, >>> without which it has been argued he'd never have come up with >>> special >>> relativity, on which his rejection of quantum mechanics was >>> founded (which >>> is where that quote comes from, if I recall correctly). >>> >>> >>> >>>> "6.45 The contemplation of the world sub specie aeterni is its >>>> contemplation >>>> as a limited whole. >>>> >>>> The feeling that the world is a limited whole is the mystical >>>> feeling." >>>> >>>> That's where the great divide between W. and Benjamin comes. >>>> Benjamin is >>>> all >>>> for breaking down these "wholes" in the realm of "ideal language. >>>> He >>>> points >>>> us to an outline of "a structure of escape." >>>> >>>> "Those are the sort of remarks, which he continually made >>>> whenever he >>>> returned to notions of value and judgement, that I mean when I >>>> refer to >>>> Wittgenstein's mysticism. One of the things that I think a large >>>> number >>>> of >>>> casual wittgenstein readers misunderstand is the idea that "the >>>> limits of >>>> the language form the limits of my world" is not a expression of >>>> a sort >>>> of >>>> nominalism, that is, it's not a statement about the world, it's a >>>> statement >>>> about language. the huge aspect of reality about which we are >>>> incapable >>>> of >>>> having meaningful discourse because we can't say anything >>>> meaningful >>>> about >>>> it, that for Wittgenstein is the most important part, and in that >>>> part of >>>> human life lies all of the traditional notions of occultism, >>>> spirituality, >>>> faith, and religion." >>>> >>>> That's where Benjamin goes beyond Wittgeinstein, essentially in my >>>> opinion >>>> rebuts him. >>>> >>> >>> I feel like you're misunderstanding the argument though. >>> Wittgenstein >>> doesn't deny that language can be extended and that new ways of >>> speaking and >>> new grammars can be created. he's quite eloquent on that point in >>> the >>> remarks on the foundations of mathematics. What he does reject >>> though is the >>> notion that there's some completeness or idealness of language >>> that is >>> possible or even desirable. rather that language in its vagueness >>> and >>> uncertainty and particularity is where it's most useful and that's >>> how >>> language actually gets used most of the time unless you start >>> getting caught >>> up in philosophical nonsense. Where he draws a limit, he's drawing >>> a limit >>> not at any existing language, but at the possibility of meaning. >>> Now, I'm >>> not comitted to the notion that he's precisely correct about where >>> he draws >>> the line about what can and can't be meant (and again, this is >>> more an >>> epistemological and psychological claim than it is a metaphysical >>> one). but >>> i really only want to defend the notion that whereever that line >>> was drawn, >>> in wittgenstein's view, and in mine for somewhat different >>> reasons, there is >>> an area of human experience that is impossible to reach at and >>> describe with >>> meaningful meaningful language that is no less important for that >>> reason, >>> that that area of experience is what Wittgenstein referred to as the >>> mystical, and probably most importantly, my own view that poetry >>> is both >>> capable and may even be necessary to guide others to encounter that >>> experience for themselves so that we can be in some sort of >>> communion with >>> each other even though we can't describe or validate it in the >>> same way that >>> we could a sentence like "the earth revolves around the sun." >>> >>> >>>> "D. You're right that Grenier is a special case, and I'll admit i >>>> was >>>> maybe >>>> being a little propagandistic in my cooption of Language poetry. >>>> I have a >>>> hard time seeing them all as a unified group in any case, but >>>> they're a >>>> little too important to me personally to allow for the outright >>>> materialism >>>> that I felt Adam painted them with in his piece, although I think >>>> he's >>>> largely right. The appeal to Grenier, I will confess, could be >>>> just some >>>> sleight of hand to try to rescue a larger movement from a specific >>>> criticism, and I think it's fair to call me on that. That said, I >>>> don't >>>> much >>>> care if any of the big Language folks agree that their work is >>>> suspicious >>>> of >>>> the materiality of language, i think i see it there anyway as a >>>> sort of >>>> irony that has to counterbalance the extreme focus on the >>>> textuality of >>>> writing. To me, reading something like the Chinese Notebook, for >>>> example, >>>> I >>>> feel like there's a certain amount of whistling at the dark >>>> that's going >>>> on, >>>> at least as it strikes me." >>>> >>>> I sympathize with your divided loyalty about Language School >>>> poets, but I >>>> think one should call a spade a spade. >>>> >>> >>> Fair enough. Although I'm tempted to appeal to the Death of the >>> Author >>> and/or Umberto Eco's notion of machina pigra and just say that I >>> don't care >>> what Ron Silliman thinks about this particular topic, on my >>> reading The >>> Chinese Notebook is clearly written in a manner that is self- >>> consciously >>> suspicious of the materiality of the language as employed. >>> (Although on that >>> point, my own response to that poem, The Liar Paradox, was in >>> blazevox a few >>> years ago and can be read here for the curious: >>> http://www.blazevox.org/061-jfq.pdf) >>> >>> Thanks again for the fascinating conversation. >>> >>> -Jason >>> >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >> >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 10:35:49 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim, Is anybody claiming that Wittgenstein is a mathematician, unless you are equating philosophy and mathematics (which you may be doing) and saying tha= t the only philosophy which is possible today is some kind of mathematical logic. You are comparing apples and oranges. When we are talking about Wittgenstein's or Godel's poetry, it seems to me, we are basically using metaphors. It has always been accepted that an elegant mathematical proof (or process) has a beauty of its own. But that does not mean it is a beauty created by words. As for Godels proofs being "beautiful and true. it's expressed in proofs that have stood the test of time," you are squirting a main issue in logica= l positivism and in Wittgenstein: "can a mathematical proof be "true" in the empirical sense ("truths" expressed in prepositional statements). In that sense does mathematics tell us anything about the world though its applications undoubtedly affect it. Of course here I tend to be more on you= r side since, as I said in my previous, the distinctions between objective-subjective, emprical/nonsensical, etc. are essentially arbitrary abstractions at best and basically illusionary. As for Wittgenstein skirting God's argument, that's his modus of thought. H= e does the same withmetaphysical, ethical assertions about the world, saying they are nonsensical. Ciao, Murat On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: > "Wittgenstein never accepted G=F6del's result; he said in The Foundations= of > Mathematics, posthumously published, that his task is not to discuss G=F6= del, > but rather to bypass G=F6del. He also called G=F6del's results the tricks= of a > logical conjurer, logical artifices." > from http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/goldstein05/goldstein05_index.html > > my feeling is that there was no room for godel's work in wittgenstein's > world view. he needed to not discuss godel but to bypass him. > > wittgenstein's work in mathematical logic is not even remotely as importa= nt > as that of godel. and godel's work is beautiful in a way that challenges = any > poet writing pretty conjectures and enigmatic pronouncements. it's beauti= ful > and it's true. it's expressed in proofs that have stood the test of time.= it > uses the equally beautiful work of georg cantor, uses his diagonal argume= nt > (which was also used later by turing). it's the most significant work of > mathematical logic of the twentieth century. it eclipses the work of any > poet on mathematical logic. it redefines the poetry and philosophy of > mathematical logic. > > i think wittgenstein thought this sort of genuinely remarkable work in me= ta > mathematics was simply impossible, that it was 'unsayable', and that his = own > sort of poetry was as good as it got. > > godel shows us what really excellent work in mathematical logic is. > > ja > http://vispo.com > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 10:33:20 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: CA Conrad Subject: MUGGED into poetry... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 MUGGED into poetry: http://somaticpoetryexercises.blogspot.com/ A new (Soma)tic Poetry Exercise for anyone who has been mugged. -- PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 11:22:34 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Jason, "yeah, but reading him as a positivist is a total misunderstanding of his work. The reason that stuff shows up in positivism is because carnap and weissman completely misunderstood the tractatus as saying something it definitely was not, ie those things that can't be talked about or empirically investigated are themselves worthless and nonexistent. which is not the case. he just thought LANGUAGE about those things was nonsensical, but not that whatever the language about htose things was trying to express was delusional or wrong. that's where his mysticism lies, which is what very few people, including I think most wittgenstein scholars, fail to appreciate. I'm in fairly good company with my reading though, because I think Ray Monk and Jurgen Habermas's readings of him coincide with mine, albeit with a few differences." those things that can't be talked about or empirically investigated are themselves worthless and nonexistent. which is not the case. he just thought LANGUAGE about those things was nonsensical: don't you think this assertions itself is somewhat strange? What is exactly the difference between "worthless, nonexistent and nonsensical" unless the word "nonsensical" is being used here as a technical term used by Logical Positivists. In other words, how much of a real difference is that outside atmospherics? "for that second argument to work you'd have to accept something like David Lewis's resolution to the problem of universals which relies on set theory and modal realism, which I just don't buy. Again, I'll appeal to wittgenstein's remark that "when you are learning spelling you also learn how to spell the word "spelling" but no one calls this a second order spelling." or to put it another way, to quote dennett's sarcastic remark about a wittgensteinian ordinary language philosopher "if it can't be expressed in first order predicate logic, it's probably incorrect and meaningless." I think we misunderstand each other here. What I mean is that any given set (language) can be broken down (Benjamin's view). If it can be broken down, it can be "escaped" and talked about or pointed to. Perhaps we should talk more about this process of pointing of "pointing" which both Wittgenstein and Heiddeger talk about. I think they are striving towards a similar thing. "I just really disagree with the notion that Wittgenstein held to anything like the idea that language was absolute and final in any way. Rather he thought it was limited, amorphous, changeable, and in no way capable of covering the wider extent of human life, which for him was a precondition for language that meaning requires. hence the comment "if a lion could talk we would not understand him." Well, he may believe all of that; but when he relegates the language of a "the wider extent of human life" to the category" to being "nonsensical," he is creating a hierarchy of values (truths/and nonsensense, both "important?") which I can not quite accept or live with. "And again, I'll return to probably the poorest understood aspect of wittgenstein's view of language which is that the things that can not be said can in fact be shown. they can be demonstrated. they can be pointed at indexically. what they can't be is explained, described, discussed, or whatever." Why not? We discuss these things all the time. What are we doing now? "If i want you to understand a religious experience, for example, i might give you a set of instructions that might allow you to recreate the experience for yourself, but if i start trying to describe it, then I begin to start talking in a way that isn't strictly meaningful in the way that other propositions are." Here one can see how the phrase "in a way that isn't strictly meaningful in the way that other propositions are" is giving to everything which can be expressed in propositions over over things. As I said in my previous post, my disagreement with Wittgenstein is partly rhetorical, the hierartchical value system it creates and leads many others to stup and very restrictive conclusions or practices. Take for instance, Normal Malcolm argument about dreaming, that dreaming can be reduced to a reporting of dreaming since, for convoluted reasons he explains in his book, nobody can prove that his/her dreaming occurred during sleep. The ridiculous argument he follows there is very similar to what you say in " "If i want you to understand a religious experience, for example, i might give you a set of instructions that might allow you to recreate the experience for yourself, but if i start trying to describe it, then I begin to start talking in a way that isn't strictly meaningful in the way that other propositions are." "Which, again, is why "philosophy ought to be written only as a form of poetry." Because poetic language is capable of showing in a way that ordinary language is not." Why not say then poetry is as much capable of philosophy as symbolic logic? It is not nonsensical truth, etc., etc. etc. "As for the Arcades project, it sounds really interesting, but it also doesn't sound like the same use of the word "true" as one uses in talking about propositions and the truth functions of logic and reasoning. That's what I mean. Instinctively, you are assigning -and I believe restricting- the "truth" value to one mode of expression and not the others. The Arcades Project talks about social, political, ethical, philosophical, aesthetic, moral issues in a synthesized language. That is its originality. Those hierarchies of truth -creating a hierarchy of validities and subtle taboos (like "weird mysticism or Platonism") are eliminated. "Here again, the later wittgenstein is informative and i would appeal to the notion of family resemblances. Just because one uses the same word doesn't mean one is saying the same thing." As I said before, my primary objection to Wittgenstein is rhetorical, and since one sees everything through the prism of language, that is a lot. And it sounds to me like what you're talking about in the arcades project is something with a kinship to the truth that exists in rational argument, but that is not fully the same thing. And I think that's fair and Wittgenstein would allow for that. Again, to me whatever disagreement we seem to have, and I don't think it's a huge one, seems to be over how to understand what Wittgenstein believed about language. So far I don't really think there's much that you've pointed at that doesn't fit into his conception of language in some way. I agree with you, Jason. Our disagreements on Wittgenstein are less than they appear. I am more focused on what Witggenstein has become to mean -which basically is a very restrictive and even damaging, particularly in poetry)- after himself. Once again, great conversation. Ciao, Murat - Show quoted text - On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > yeah, but reading him as a positivist is a total misunderstanding of his > work. The reason that stuff shows up in positivism is because carnap and > weissman completely misunderstood the tractatus as saying something it > definitely was not, ie those things that can't be talked about or > empirically investigated are themselves worthless and nonexistent. which is > not the case. he just thought LANGUAGE about those things was nonsensical, > but not that whatever the language about htose things was trying to express > was delusional or wrong. that's where his mysticism lies, which is what very > few people, including I think most wittgenstein scholars, fail to > appreciate. I'm in fairly good company with my reading though, because I > think Ray Monk and Jurgen Habermas's readings of him coincide with mine, > albeit with a few differences. > > for that second argument to work you'd have to accept something like David > Lewis's resolution to the problem of universals which relies on set theory > and modal realism, which I just don't buy. Again, I'll appeal to > wittgenstein's remark that "when you are learning spelling you also learn > how to spell the word "spelling" but no one calls this a second order > spelling." or to put it another way, to quote dennett's sarcastic remark > about a wittgensteinian ordinary language philosopher "if it can't be > expressed in first order predicate logic, it's probably incorrect and > meaningless." > > I just really disagree with the notion that Wittgenstein held to anything > like the idea that language was absolute and final in any way. Rather he > thought it was limited, amorphous, changeable, and in no way capable of > covering the wider extent of human life, which for him was a precondition > for language that meaning requires. hence the comment "if a lion could talk > we would not understand him." > > And again, I'll return to probably the poorest understood aspect of > wittgenstein's view of language which is that the things that can not be > said can in fact be shown. they can be demonstrated. they can be pointed at > indexically. what they can't be is explained, described, discussed, or > whatever. If i want you to understand a religious experience, for example, i > might give you a set of instructions that might allow you to recreate the > experience for yourself, but if i start trying to describe it, then I begin > to start talking in a way that isn't strictly meaningful in the way that > other propositions are. Which, again, is why "philosophy ought to be written > only as a form of poetry." Because poetic language is capable of showing in > a way that ordinary language is not. > > As for the Arcades project, it sounds really interesting, but it also > doesn't sound like the same use of the word "true" as one uses in talking > about propositions and the truth functions of logic and reasoning. Here > again, the later wittgenstein is informative and i would appeal to the > notion of family resemblances. Just because one uses the same word doesn't > mean one is saying the same thing. And it sounds to me like what you're > talking about in the arcades project is something with a kinship to the > truth that exists in rational argument, but that is not fully the same > thing. And I think that's fair and Wittgenstein would allow for that. Again, > to me whatever disagreement we seem to have, and I don't think it's a huge > one, seems to be over how to understand what Wittgenstein believed about > language. So far I don't really think there's much that you've pointed at > that doesn't fit into his conception of language in some way. > > > On Jul 29, 2010, at 8:33 AM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > > Jason, >> >> a) A few other condescending attributions by Wittgenstein: "Nonsensical," >> "bewitchment of language." All he had to add was "young and foolish," "wet >> behind the ears humanity. "Nonsensical" is a logical positivist term; >> "bewitchment of language" is just a more "poetic" expression of the same >> thought. Personally, I have grave doubts how far W.' moved away from his >> logical positivist origins at Cambridge. >> >> b) As transfinite sets imply, any set can finally be broken to become the >> subset of another set, ad infinitum -building, breaking down and >> rebuilding... That way the distinction between "language" and "a >> language," >> as you put it, does not really exist. If so, there is not much difference >> between Witgenstein's "Language." and Benjamin's "ideal language." In this >> specific sense, in his use of the concept of "language," one might argue >> that W. -the quintessential liberal Christian Jew- was a cabbalist. >> >> The difference, it seems to me, between W. and B. is that for W. >> "language" >> is a final absolute, therefore, unsayable. Surprisingly, >> counter-intuitively, for B. "ideal language" is not. B's "ideal language >> constantly breaks down, reforms, expands itself. It is a process, a >> continuous one. >> >> Here one come, I think, to Benjamin's rebuttal of Wittgenstein within the >> framework, body of language itself, how language constantly, continuously >> breaks out of its limits towards the unsayable -which in its turn may >> create >> new fields of the unsayable: in the central importance of quotations and >> fragments (deterioration, fragmentation) in his writing, in his rhetorical >> ideal. Quotations are meta-factual. They are conjectural gestures, a >> rhetoric of possibilities, potentialities. They are on the level of >> language >> also always true (they are quoting someone) regardless of what they are >> saying. By definition quotations also are always fragments, taken from a >> larger whole. They need complementation (one of the constant features, >> themes in this thread has been to bring in what W. said before or after >> the >> specific discussed passage). When quotations are placed together, the >> need >> for complementation occurs across their jagged edges empowering the empty >> space among them. This is the unsayable, spiritual space. >> >> *The Arcades Project* resolves the dilemma, blind alley W's thought leads >> us. It creates a detailed analysis of the physical, ethical, emotional, >> spiritual, intellectual analysis of the past continuing into the present >> (he >> called it "dialectical history). Here W's distinction between factual and >> ethical (nonsensical, etc.) has disappeared, has been resolved (that's why >> Adorno hated The Arcades Project writings so much and wanted to edit them >> out -they were too "redeptive," not positivist enough). >> >> c) Jason, you say: >> "I don't see how it you can have sentence that is true or false without it >> referring to an object and then predicating some quality to the object. >> You >> don't need subject-predicate word order to get that, but if you could give >> me an example of a statement that is capable of being true or false >> without >> having some kind of predicate, I might be able to grasp what you're >> getting >> at. To me, the fact that propositions contain predicates seems >> tautological." >> >> As I said, The Arcades Project is such an example. Through quotations (in >> which Benjamin's own ideas also function as quotations), Benjamin makes >> statements (in the shape of gestures), not about "the world/ realty,"; but >> about language where the distinction W. makes through abstraction does not >> exist. All the dimensions of thought and experience -ethics, history, >> facts, >> etc. etc,- blur, blend into each other. Since humanity experiences >> "reality" >> through language and its manners of regeneration, Benjamin's method seems >> to >> me much less nonsensical or "bewitchment" of reality than Wittgenstein'. >> >> d) I am glad that you see words like "nonsensical, etc. should lose their >> negative connotations. But, of we do so, doesn't Wittgenstein tragic sense >> of life, which poets are so drawn to, basically vanish? >> >> GREAT THREAD. THANK YOU. >> >> Ciao, >> >> Murat >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 1:59 PM, Murat Nemet-Nejat > >wrote: >> >> Jason, David, Jim, >>> >>> This thread has become so vast, in a very good way, so that I do not know >>> how to respond to each (particularly to Jason's meticulous arguments), >>> unless I spend a trans-finite portion of my day doing it, not that that >>> would be a bad thing. >>> >>> Jason, first let me respond to what you are saying. I think there is more >>> we agree with on Wittgenstein than we disagree with. My objection to him >>> is >>> in the use and consequences of his rhetoric and his effect on poetry and >>> poetics in the United States. It narrows the possibilities of poetry, >>> particularly the way Language School applied his ideas. Let me explain >>> what >>> I mean: >>> >>> a) It is true that Wittgenstein will not deny that the subject-predicate >>> structure is not the only way a sentence can be constructed; but he >>> delegates every other structure to second class by calling it >>> "meaningless," >>> unable to be expressed as "true or false," etc. (I need to go back to the >>> text and choose a few more words with the same rhetorical effect). >>> >>> But who has decided that the nature of *reality* consists (must express >>> itself) as true or false and everything else is peripheral, secondary. >>> That >>> is a profound, unquestioned assumption on Wittgenstein's part the >>> validity >>> of which to me is much less clear -in fact, to be honest about it, is >>> clearly "false." >>> >>> I am more on the side of what Heraclitus says and David quotes: >>> >>> ""The most beautiful world is a heap of rubble tossed down in >>> confusion/at >>> random." >>> >>> We see truth, if at all, through a glass darkly, which also constantly >>> changes, is fluid. "Factual," "ethical," "pilosophical," even >>> "scientific" >>> values blur are very rarely distinct (a clear demarcation between >>> objective >>> and subjective basically impossible), and to build a reality structure on >>> a >>> fundementalist distinction between true and false (which W. does by >>> privileging a prepositional view of what is real, as opposed to >>> unsayable) >>> is foolhardy. A poet's job, it seems to me, is exactly to deal with that >>> unsayable -shall we consider ourselves to be dealing with nonsense or, as >>> Language School or it follower Flarf does, indulging in language games or >>> google games. >>> >>> I do not disagree that we are may be doomed (The Spiritual Life of >>> Replicants deals with that issue) to grasp reality only through language >>> -but that *does not mean* that we have to do it by entering only through >>> one straight straight straight gate -the prepositional sentence. >>> >>> David, >>> I think we agree in our view of Grenier. I was not aware Grenier's later >>> work was blacklisted by Language School poets. At least they realized >>> what >>> he was getting at and his pursuit went awry from their approach to >>> poetry. >>> >>> Ciao, >>> >>> Murat >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 3:56 AM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >>> >>> Hey Murat, thanks for the excellent counterpoint. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "6.41 The sense of the world must lie outside the world. In the world >>>>> everything is as it is and happens as it does happen. In it there is no >>>>> value -- and if there were, it would be of no value." >>>>> >>>>> Do you not see the circularity of Wittgenstein's argument? While he >>>>> pays >>>>> lip >>>>> service to by being "sympathetic" to ethical impulses, he condescends >>>>> to >>>>> it >>>>> and relegates it to subservient category. If he can not talk >>>>> "meaningfully" >>>>> about something, then he does not talk about it. Therefore, that thing >>>>> becomes invisible: "he didn't write about it because he couldn't." On a >>>>> grand scale, is this argument any different from the drunkard who looks >>>>> for >>>>> the key under the light because that's where the light is, not >>>>> necessarily >>>>> where the key is? >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I don't see circularity, but rather the elucidation of a tautology. But >>>> I'm not terribly inclined to defend the argument of the tractatus, as I >>>> don't think it's particularly useful except as an example of where he >>>> was >>>> coming from in his later more compelling world. There are huge flaws in >>>> the >>>> tractatus, my favorite being the summation of Prop. 7 (the famous >>>> "whereof >>>> we cannot speak, therof we must remain silent") given by Frank Ramsey's >>>> translation "You can't say what you can't say and you can't whistle it >>>> either." >>>> >>>> To the drunk looking for his keys analogy, I think there's a bit of >>>> that, >>>> and I think some of it is even intentional. That sort of uselessness of >>>> the >>>> actual arguments is I think part of what he had in mind in saying that >>>> the >>>> tractatus was meant to be a ladder that you could kick away once you >>>> climbed >>>> to the top. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Wittgenstein never explores or goes after that "outside" world ("the >>>>> sense >>>>> of the world"). His thinking concerns itself only with what "as it is >>>>> and >>>>> happens as it does happen." >>>>> >>>>> >>>> On the contrary, I think he doesn't think that stuff matters at all. In >>>> fact in his journals and in the brown books, he's almost dismissive of >>>> that >>>> part of experience as stuff that can be through empirical science. It >>>> just >>>> isn't the proper object of philosophy to deal with that stuff. It's >>>> empirical and there are other ways of thinking about it that are more >>>> fruitful. >>>> >>>> >>>> Here I think an analysis of syntax is important -specifically the >>>> English >>>> >>>>> syntax, composed of subject and predicate- is important. That is the >>>>> syntax >>>>> for an empirical view of the world -where things either happen (are >>>>> true) >>>>> or >>>>> don't happen (are not true). Wittgeinstein accepts this implicitly as >>>>> the >>>>> paradigm, as far as I can tell, with defending why. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> well, he's talking about propositions, which by definition are sentences >>>> that can be true or false. Much of what precedes the quoted section >>>> deals >>>> with what propositions are, how they work, how they relate to facts, >>>> what >>>> facts are etc. And again, i think this is a fair criticism because this >>>> notion of the proposition as a thing at all arises from from Russell and >>>> Whiteheads elucidation of the predicate calculus in The Principals of >>>> Mathematics. That said, I'm not entirely sure I understand what the >>>> distinction you're drawing is, but I do think that we have lots of >>>> sentences >>>> in English which aren't propositions at all, and I think that's part of >>>> what >>>> the tractatus and in particular the first part of Philosophical >>>> investigations is trying to get at: that is, there are these parts of >>>> the >>>> world we can talk about where the notions of truth and falsity apply, >>>> and >>>> there's this other part which is more loose but that allows for a wider >>>> range of meaning than mere propositions do, and there is a wider part of >>>> that that carries neither truth value nor meaning and in that there are >>>> a >>>> wide variety of kinds of meaninglessness, nonsense, and senselessness. I >>>> don't think wittgenstein would necessarily disagree with you that it's a >>>> mistake to consider the subject predicate syntax as somehow decisive >>>> about >>>> the world, in fact I think the first 100 or so remarks of Philosophical >>>> Investigations are precisely an attack on that kind of view. >>>> >>>> >>>> Now, instead, consider a syntactical structure replete with conjunctive >>>> >>>>> forms (a syntax of possibilities, of potential thought) -as the >>>>> agglutinative Turkish syntax is, which records thought in the process >>>>> of >>>>> emerging (once again, see *Eda Anthology*), not as true or false but as >>>>> process, then a philosophical view of such a world would be totally >>>>> different -pre-analytic, much more inclusive, in which a >>>>> "subject-predicate" >>>>> construction is only a part. >>>>> >>>>> "If there is a value which is of value, it must lie outside all >>>>> happening >>>>> and being-so. For all happening and being-so is accidental. >>>>> What makes it non-accidental cannot lie in the world, for otherwise >>>>> this >>>>> would again be accidental. >>>>> >>>>> It must lie outside the world." >>>>> >>>>> Here Wittgenstein is practicing, is following Hume's radical skepticism >>>>> about the "innate logic" of reality to which the continental philosophy >>>>> (from Spinoza to Kant, etc.) is a counterpoint. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Here I think you're misreading. part of this, tho, is that he's defined >>>> "the world" early on as a particularly limited sort of thing. "The world >>>> is >>>> everything that is the case." again, this is part of what he rejects >>>> later >>>> in his earlier thinking, and I don't think even he would defend it. But >>>> it >>>> isn't precisely a recitation of the is/ought problem per se, but rather >>>> I >>>> think a more nuanced assertion about the nature of "oughts" themselves. >>>> It's >>>> not a skeptical idea about moral facts, or at least its not just that, >>>> but >>>> rather a statement about whether we're able to say meaningful things >>>> about >>>> moral facts. Again, even the phrase "moral facts" he'd probably disavow >>>> as >>>> not meaninful in someway, but I think the basic form of what he'd say is >>>> "well, if you want to be a radical skeptic, go ahead, but the statement >>>> that >>>> there are not moral facts is just as meaningless as the statement that >>>> there >>>> are moral facts. You're still stuck in the flybottle if you're even >>>> trying >>>> to have that conversation. You'll get nowhere, best to come at it from a >>>> different angle." >>>> >>>> Also, there's an important aspect to all this that the section I quoted >>>> doesn't mention, and that's the notion (most recently argued for by Cora >>>> Diamond I believe) that while wittgenstein thought that there were all >>>> sorts >>>> of things that couldn't be said, you could still use language to show >>>> the >>>> things that you can't talk about. Sadly, Wittgenstein never addresses CS >>>> Peirce directly in the surviving nachlass, although I'm fairly certain >>>> he >>>> must have grappled with him at some point because Frank Ramsey thought >>>> that >>>> there was in pragmatism a way out of the box the tractatus seems to >>>> draw, >>>> and there's certainly something like James and Peirce style pragmatism >>>> in >>>> his thinking that shows up by the time he dictated the brown book, and >>>> it's >>>> hard for me to see his later conception of "meaning as use" as anything >>>> other than a kind of pragmatism, albeit not the kind that Richard Rorty >>>> thought it was. >>>> >>>> My point here again though is that what he was grappling with was a >>>> theory >>>> of language that seemed to constantly shut down any attempts to say >>>> things >>>> about a certain widely experienced and hugely important aspect of human >>>> life, and I think he saw it in a nearly tragic light, which is why I >>>> think >>>> he was so happy to describe the attribution of meaning to certain kinds >>>> of >>>> nonsense as "bewitchment by language." because it seems like you should >>>> be >>>> able to talk about these things, and we feel like when we're talking >>>> about >>>> them that we're saying meaningful things, but it's only when we reflect >>>> on >>>> what that might really mean that we have to realize that we have know >>>> way of >>>> knowing whether what we've said communicates what we hoped or not. As >>>> such, >>>> this becomes a much more epistemological than metaphysical position, and >>>> indeed I think that's how he ended up approaching the issue. >>>> >>>> >>>> "6.42 Hence also there can be no ethical propositions." >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Here one can see W's circular thinking in practice. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Again, it's important to note that he's talking about propositions and >>>> not >>>> sentences, or even more importantly signs. I think he would be ok with >>>> the >>>> idea of ethical signifiers. >>>> >>>> >>>> "Propositions cannot express anything higher." >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yes, this is true if the only possible or valid linguistic structure >>>>> having >>>>> any hold to reality consisted of the propositions, that is to say, >>>>> subject-predicate structure. >>>>> >>>>> This is a priori assumption on W's part having >>>>> to do, as far as I can see, very little connection to reality, the >>>>> state >>>>> state in which language function. Subject=predicate is a mere >>>>> abstraction >>>>> from it. >>>>> >>>>> I don't see how it you can have sentence that is true or false without >>>>> >>>> it referring to an object and then predicating some quality to the >>>> object. >>>> You don't need subject-predicate word order to get that, but if you >>>> could >>>> give me an example of a statement that is capable of being true or false >>>> without having some kind of predicate, I might be able to grasp what >>>> you're >>>> getting at. To me, the fact that propositions contain predicates seems >>>> tautological. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "6.43 If good or bad willing changes the world, it can only change the >>>>> limits of the world, not the facts; not the things that can be >>>>> expressed >>>>> in >>>>> language." >>>>> >>>>> It seems to me wrong. If you change the limits of language (more >>>>> specifically of *a* language, that's why the importance of >>>>> translation), >>>>> you >>>>> are changing what can be said in it. As I said, here lies the crucial >>>>> importance of translation and Benjamin's thought about it -on >>>>> disintegration, fragmentation, etc. >>>>> >>>>> but when he's talking about the limits of language he means the limits >>>> of >>>> language, not the limits of a language. he's talking about what can and >>>> can't be talked about, full stop, not some concept that might be >>>> expressable >>>> in one language but difficult to express in another. He's talking about >>>> what >>>> it means for a sentence to have meaning at all, not whether it is >>>> understood >>>> as intended. And I think part of the big reason that Benjamin is >>>> unsatisfying to me on that score is that he relies so heavily on >>>> intention >>>> toward signified objects, and where that goes I follow wittgenstein into >>>> a >>>> severe skepticism about that sort of semiotic notion. it's not at all >>>> clear >>>> what such an object is, and if I recall correctly Benjamin uses various >>>> words for "bread" in different languages as an example. Well ok, bread >>>> is >>>> pain is brot is pan is lechem is naan is pita is tortilla is chapati is >>>> ... >>>> ? which do you intend? some ideal form of bread in the mind of god? a >>>> privately held abstraction that we take on faith is in someway similar >>>> to >>>> the private object in the mind of another party to the conversation? >>>> really? >>>> but what if I sit down at the table and choke a bit and say "bread!" do >>>> i >>>> really intend that same thing even tho my meaning is similar? no, not >>>> really, i mean, I'm choking, give me bread so i can try to swallow. same >>>> word. same object in the real world i'd signify by saying "this bread is >>>> excellent." completely different meaning. And meaning is what >>>> Wittgenstein >>>> is concerned with. >>>> >>>> >>>> "In brief, the world must thereby become quite another, it must so to >>>> >>>>> speak >>>>> wax or wane as a whole. >>>>> >>>>> The world of the happy is quite another than that of the unhappy." >>>>> >>>>> W. ignores the consequences of what he is saying here. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> On the contrary, I think he's very conscious of them. I'm not sure what >>>> you mean he ignores them? >>>> >>>> >>>> "6.44 Not how the world is, is the mystical, but that it is." >>>> >>>>> >>>>> This sentence remind me of Einstein's "God does not play dice with the >>>>> universe." Cute, what it does not enter Einstein's thoughts in physics >>>>> (unless I misunderstand him). >>>>> >>>>> I'd argue with that. I think it's a succint & pithy expression of >>>>> >>>> Einstein's strong commitment to instrumentalism in scientific reasoning, >>>> without which it has been argued he'd never have come up with special >>>> relativity, on which his rejection of quantum mechanics was founded >>>> (which >>>> is where that quote comes from, if I recall correctly). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "6.45 The contemplation of the world sub specie aeterni is its >>>>> contemplation >>>>> as a limited whole. >>>>> >>>>> The feeling that the world is a limited whole is the mystical feeling." >>>>> >>>>> That's where the great divide between W. and Benjamin comes. Benjamin >>>>> is >>>>> all >>>>> for breaking down these "wholes" in the realm of "ideal language. He >>>>> points >>>>> us to an outline of "a structure of escape." >>>>> >>>>> "Those are the sort of remarks, which he continually made whenever he >>>>> returned to notions of value and judgement, that I mean when I refer to >>>>> Wittgenstein's mysticism. One of the things that I think a large number >>>>> of >>>>> casual wittgenstein readers misunderstand is the idea that "the limits >>>>> of >>>>> the language form the limits of my world" is not a expression of a sort >>>>> of >>>>> nominalism, that is, it's not a statement about the world, it's a >>>>> statement >>>>> about language. the huge aspect of reality about which we are incapable >>>>> of >>>>> having meaningful discourse because we can't say anything meaningful >>>>> about >>>>> it, that for Wittgenstein is the most important part, and in that part >>>>> of >>>>> human life lies all of the traditional notions of occultism, >>>>> spirituality, >>>>> faith, and religion." >>>>> >>>>> That's where Benjamin goes beyond Wittgeinstein, essentially in my >>>>> opinion >>>>> rebuts him. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I feel like you're misunderstanding the argument though. Wittgenstein >>>> doesn't deny that language can be extended and that new ways of speaking >>>> and >>>> new grammars can be created. he's quite eloquent on that point in the >>>> remarks on the foundations of mathematics. What he does reject though is >>>> the >>>> notion that there's some completeness or idealness of language that is >>>> possible or even desirable. rather that language in its vagueness and >>>> uncertainty and particularity is where it's most useful and that's how >>>> language actually gets used most of the time unless you start getting >>>> caught >>>> up in philosophical nonsense. Where he draws a limit, he's drawing a >>>> limit >>>> not at any existing language, but at the possibility of meaning. Now, >>>> I'm >>>> not comitted to the notion that he's precisely correct about where he >>>> draws >>>> the line about what can and can't be meant (and again, this is more an >>>> epistemological and psychological claim than it is a metaphysical one). >>>> but >>>> i really only want to defend the notion that whereever that line was >>>> drawn, >>>> in wittgenstein's view, and in mine for somewhat different reasons, >>>> there is >>>> an area of human experience that is impossible to reach at and describe >>>> with >>>> meaningful meaningful language that is no less important for that >>>> reason, >>>> that that area of experience is what Wittgenstein referred to as the >>>> mystical, and probably most importantly, my own view that poetry is both >>>> capable and may even be necessary to guide others to encounter that >>>> experience for themselves so that we can be in some sort of communion >>>> with >>>> each other even though we can't describe or validate it in the same way >>>> that >>>> we could a sentence like "the earth revolves around the sun." >>>> >>>> >>>> "D. You're right that Grenier is a special case, and I'll admit i was >>>>> maybe >>>>> being a little propagandistic in my cooption of Language poetry. I have >>>>> a >>>>> hard time seeing them all as a unified group in any case, but they're a >>>>> little too important to me personally to allow for the outright >>>>> materialism >>>>> that I felt Adam painted them with in his piece, although I think he's >>>>> largely right. The appeal to Grenier, I will confess, could be just >>>>> some >>>>> sleight of hand to try to rescue a larger movement from a specific >>>>> criticism, and I think it's fair to call me on that. That said, I don't >>>>> much >>>>> care if any of the big Language folks agree that their work is >>>>> suspicious >>>>> of >>>>> the materiality of language, i think i see it there anyway as a sort of >>>>> irony that has to counterbalance the extreme focus on the textuality of >>>>> writing. To me, reading something like the Chinese Notebook, for >>>>> example, >>>>> I >>>>> feel like there's a certain amount of whistling at the dark that's >>>>> going >>>>> on, >>>>> at least as it strikes me." >>>>> >>>>> I sympathize with your divided loyalty about Language School poets, but >>>>> I >>>>> think one should call a spade a spade. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Fair enough. Although I'm tempted to appeal to the Death of the Author >>>> and/or Umberto Eco's notion of machina pigra and just say that I don't >>>> care >>>> what Ron Silliman thinks about this particular topic, on my reading The >>>> Chinese Notebook is clearly written in a manner that is self-consciously >>>> suspicious of the materiality of the language as employed. (Although on >>>> that >>>> point, my own response to that poem, The Liar Paradox, was in blazevox a >>>> few >>>> years ago and can be read here for the curious: >>>> http://www.blazevox.org/061-jfq.pdf) >>>> >>>> Thanks again for the fascinating conversation. >>>> >>>> -Jason >>>> >>>> >>>> ================================== >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >>>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 12:02:25 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Melnicove Subject: Jena Osman's essay on Bern Porter In-Reply-To: ADC7618C-25D5-4C3E-8355-E4055AF3CA7D@uw.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jena Osman's essay, "Bern Porter: Recycling the Atmosphere," a considera= tion of his book THE WASTEMAKER and his role as an eco-poet, can be read= right now at: http://bernporter.com/essays =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 14:56:38 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: the renewal of Spirituality in Poetry" or we can use audience at this gig to help heep the spirit alive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Piano(S)Poem Wednesday, August 18, 2010 2 great sets @ the Stone (Ave. C & E. 2nd Street) Manhattan - F train to 2nd Ave. 8 p.m. set 1 - pianist Stephanie Stone w/ poets Eve Packer & Yuko Otomo 10 p.m. set 2 - pianist Matthew Shipp in duo with poet Steve Dalachinsky $10 per set - if you want to stay for set 2 just pay an additional $5 stephanie stone will be leaving the city after this gig for awhile so please drop by and say hello ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 13:38:17 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Rain Taxi Interview MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Edward Picot's conversation with me on "The Gateless Gate" and Digital = Literary Art is now available in Rain Taxi: http://www.raintaxi.com/online/2010summer/ -Joel Homepage: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 On-Line Archive:=20 www.cddc.vt.edu/host/weishaus/index.htm =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 10:54:19 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Amanda Earl Subject: AngelHousePress Essay by John C. Goodman Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed hi all, In his essay Obscurity in Poetry, John C. Goodman, editor of ditch, cites various works that have been obscure in poetry, from 1066 to today. He discusses some of the motivations behind non-narrative poetry, including the human mind's ability and interest in non -linear connections, and urges us to consider the works in terms of writers' intentions. To read the essay, please go to www.angelhousepress.com and click on essays. best, Amanda Amanda Earl AngelHousePress www.angelhousepress.com the angel is in the house ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 09:35:37 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: Last Call to Exhibit at Boog Fest's Small, Small Press Fair Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, Boog City would like to invite you again to exhibit at our 7th annual =20= small, small press fair (with indie records and crafts, too). The fair will span two days, Sat. Sept. 25-Sun. Sept. 26, and be held =20= at Brooklyn=92s Unnameable Books (600 Vanderbilt Ave.) in their spacious = =20 backyard. The fair will take place during the 4th annual Welcome to =20 Boog City poetry and music festival. The fair will open on Saturday with three hours of performances by =20 authors from each of the tablers. Tables are $30 for the fair, $20 dollars if you bring your own bridge =20= table (up to 3=92 x 3=92) with a portion of the proceeds going to help =20= Unnameable Books. Door charge for attendees is by donation. Please email me to reserve your table and schedule your reader. We =20 look forward to the fair once again being a warm gathering with =20 wonderful books, poetry, music, and other items from around our =20 creative community. You can reach me at this email address, editor@boogcity.com. This year=92s festival will feature: readings from NYC Poets Julian Brolaski Sommer Browning Steve Cannon Joe Elliot Laura Elrick Farrah Field John Godfrey E. Tracy Grinnell Shafer Hall Ivy Johnson Pierre Joris Erica Kaufman Noelle Kocot Chris Martin Urayo=E1n Noel Cate Peebles Nicole Peyrafitte Mariana Ruiz David Shapiro Anne Waldman w/Ambrose Bye Jared White Dustin Williamson and Non-NYC Poets Peter Davis Cathy Eisenhower Brandon Holmquest Ken Jacobs Patti McCarthy Chris McCreary Jenn McCreary Mel Nichols Douglas Rothschild Carlos Soto Rom=E1n Maureen Thorson Joe Torra Kevin Varrone In Conversation, poets David Shapiro and Joanna Fuhrman Music from: The newly expanded I feel tractor performs Bob Dylan's Highway 61 =20 Revisited live. and sets from Beat Radio Binary Marketing Show Jeremiah Birnbaum J.J. Hayes Rorie Kelly Lach Magnetic Island Tom Orange Brian Speaker The Elastic No-No Band and more Our second annual Poets=92 Theater night, curated and hosted by Gary =20 Sullivan, and featuring performances of many short plays written and =20 performed by local writers and actors. This festival's panel, You Are Here: On the Site-Specific Poem, =20 curated by Pattie McCarthy and Kevin Varrone. And Buffalo's Satellite Telephone magazine will kick-off of season =20 eight of our levy lives: celebrating the renegade press series with =20 readings and a musical guest. as ever, David P.S. Apologies if you received more than one copy of this email. -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W. 28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://welcometoboogcity.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) To subscribe free to The December Podcast: = http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=3D3431698= 80 For music from Gilmore boys: http://www.myspace.com/gilmoreboysmusic= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 21:54:31 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: <982700BA-952D-4AA3-B424-99336C21414B@uw.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I know that's the fashionable view among mathematicians and philosophers of mathematics who don't want to have to address the fact that Wittgenstein called them out for a level of metaphysical spookiness that most don't want to admit to like good scientific materialists, Most mathematicians are work-a-day Platonists. They assume mathematical entities 'exist' in the sense that their properties remain invariant and the standard systems of mathematics are relatively consistent (relative to arithmetic) and they don't have to worry about the entities being contradictory anytime soon--probably never. Most would also probably believe that "arithmetical truths are independent of any human activity", but don't think about it much. > but that argument, including Godel's remarks on the matter, doesn't really comprehend what's going on in the remarks on the foundations of mathematics where Godel sentences are being discussed. It's also, I think, quite uncharitable to attribute that imprecision of thought to attribute the mistake that Wittgenstein is supposed to have made (that is, thinking that the incompleteness theorem was somehow incorrect) to a mathematical logician capable of holding his own among the likes of Bertrand Russell, Frank Ramsey, and John Maynard Keynes, Alan Turing, and Piero Sraffa, all of whom were in some way influenced by him at some point. Wittgenstein didn't dismiss or misunderstand the result, it's just that on his view of how mathematics worked, which was influenced by Brouwer and his own work on Frege and Russell's views, it's relatively trivial that there are true but unprovable statements in any significantly complex formal system, which is the only consequence of the theorem that he ever wrote anything about and even then, only as notes to himself for lectures and not anything he intended for public consumption. Trivial? Well, no, it's not trivial. True but unprovable statements (undecidable statements) cannot be construed as yer run-of-the-mill axiom A. Yer run-of-the-mill axiom A is 'independent'. That is, one may assume A or ~A (but not both) and still end up with a consistent system (provided the rest are consistent). Typically, the system does not imply anything already about axioms. But, in the case of undecidable propositions, the system rules out their falsity. The negation of an undecidable statement is definitely false. Undecidable propositions were a whole new type of cat. Godel showed that in sufficiently powerful formal systems, such propositions necessarily exist. So what? Well, it means that such formal systems are never 'complete' in the sense that there's always going to be more undecidable propositions, no matter how you go to town on it. He proved it ain't over even after the fat lady sings. One of the burning questions of the time in which Godel did his work was whether math was basically over. If it's possible to build a theorem proving machine that will prove all provable theorems (and it is), then, so the argument ran, math is over. Let the machine do the proofs and we'll find something more interesting to do. What Godel showed was that there are always going to be more unprovable but true propositions. The machine obviously can't prove all true propositions, cuz some of them are unprovable. OK, then, can it decide which propositions are true and which are false? Well, no. Surprisingly. "One consequence of the halting problem's undecidability is that there cannot be a general algorithm that decides whether a given statement about natural numbers is true or not." (quoted from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem ). That is, Turing's work on the Halting problem--which demonstrated a task no conceivable machine could ever satisfactorily accomplish--also gives us the answer to various other questions such as this one. Godel and Turing weren't out to create Windows or computers. They were out to solve outstanding mathematical and somewhat philosophical problems. Godel and Turing showed that math can never be 'over'. For even if we built a machine that could prove all provable theorems--and apparently there's no reason why we couldn't do that--we *cannot* build a machine that provides us with all true propositions. > My guess is that he'd probably argue the law of the excluded middle would be such a proposition true but unprovable assumption in Brouwer's system for example. One of the differences Godel made is that Wittgenstein would have to prove it. Godel took meta mathematics from the realm of loosely conjectural philosophy into the realm of proof and logic. Godel's work AS POETRY. There is no more beautiful work in or concerning meta mathematics. And it's engagement with language is profound. Godel numbering of all propositions. This redefines how we should think of poetry. It's the intensity of engagement with language and truth that matters, in this consideration. This is the spiritual underpinning of things like OULIPO. Or so it seems to me at the moment. I hope to respond more to your provocative and thoughtful post, Jason. But for now I have to try to fix dbCinema, which is broken. Google changed their image search stuff. Yeesh. ja August 1 2010 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 14:58:16 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Sept. 1, 2010 = Esque +++++ Vida -- Women in Letters and Literary Arts Comments: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ESQUE -- Ifestos and Oetry by ... Carolyn Zaikowski Charles Bernstein Matvei Yankelevich Tamiko Beyer Franz Wright Jillian Brall Anne Waldman Julian Brolaski John Tranter Ching-In Chen Cole Swensen Ken Chen Leigh Stein Bei Dao (trans. Clayton Eshleman) Heidi Lynn Staples Amy De'ath Tomaz Salamun Lidija Dimkovska Joan Retallack Rachel Blau DuPlessis Ariana Reines Kate Durbin Ron Padgett & Olivier Brossard Brenda Hillman Miguel Murphy Molly Gaudry Sharon Mesmer Roxane Gay Steven Karl Matt Hart Saeed Jones Dan Hoy AND THEN SOME + ~~~~~~~~~~ VIDA -- WOMEN IN LETTERS AND LITERARY ARTS vidaweb.org September 1st: * A newly designed site with easier navigation. * New Blog: HER KIND. * Readers comments. * VIDA calendar updates. Plus: * Barrie Jean Borich dissects the Burlesque in her "State of the Art" Piece. * Erin Belieu slices and dices the tactful and tawdry in her "Deal With It" piece titled: "Full Disclosure: I Was a Teenage Poetry Bride." * Amy King interviews editor Arielle Greenberg for our very first "For the Record" entry. And: * The first installment of our Fall 2010 of "The Count": The Best American Series. ******** Poetry, Publishing, Women & the Internet + http://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/your-own-revolution-poetry-publishing-the-internet/ Poets for Living Waters + http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/ ******** ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 11:29:17 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: patrick dunagan Subject: Re: MUGGED into poetry... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mugging (I) by Allen Ginsberg Allen Ginsberg *I* Tonite I walked out of my red apartment door on East tenth street=E2=80=99s= dusk=E2=80=94 Walked out of my home ten years, walked out in my honking neighborhood Tonite at seven walked out past garbage cans chained to concrete anchors Walked under black painted fire escapes, giant castiron plate covering a hole in ground =E2=80=94Crossed the street, traffic lite red, thirteen bus roaring by liqu= or store, past corner pharmacy iron grated, past Coca Cola & Mylai posters fading scraped on brick Past Chinese Laundry wood door=E2=80=99d, & broken cement stoop steps For R= ent hall painted green & purple Puerto Rican style Along E. 10th=E2=80=99s glass splattered pavement, kid blacks & Spanish oil= ed hair adolescents=E2=80=99 crowded house fronts=E2=80=94 Ah, tonite I walked out on my block NY City under humid summer sky Halloween, thinking what happened Timothy Leary joining brain police for a season? thinking what=E2=80=99s all this Weathermen, secrecy & selfrighteousness be= yond reason=E2=80=94F.B.I. plots? Walked past a taxicab controlling the bottle strewn curb=E2=80=94 past young fellows with their umbrella handles & canes leaning against a ravaged Buick =E2=80=94and as I looked at the crowd of kids on the stoop=E2=80=94a boy st= epped up, put his arm around my neck tenderly I thought for a moment, squeezed harder, his umbrella handle against my skull, and his friends took my arm, a young brown companion tripped his foot =E2=80=99gainst my ankle=E2=80=94 as I went down shouting Om Ah H=C5=ABm to gangs of lovers on the stoop watc= hing slowly appreciating, why this is a raid, these strangers mean strange business with what=E2=80=94my pockets, bald head, broken-healed-bone leg, my softsho= es, my heart=E2=80=94 Have they knives? Om Ah H=C5=ABm=E2=80=94Have they sharp metal wood to shov= e in eye ear ass? Om Ah H=C5=ABm & slowly reclined on the pavement, struggling to keep my woolen bag of poetry address calendar & Leary-lawyer notes hung from my shoulder dragged in my neat orlon shirt over the crossbar of a broken metal door dragged slowly onto the fire-soiled floor an abandoned store, laundry candy counter 1929=E2=80=94 now a mess of papers & pillows & plastic car seat covers cracked cockroach-corpsed ground=E2=80=94 my wallet back pocket passed over the iron foot step guard and fell out, stole by God Muggers=E2=80=99 lost fingers, Strange=E2=80=94 Couldn=E2=80=99t tell=E2=80=94snakeskin wallet actually plastic, 70 dollars= my bank money for a week, old broken wallet=E2=80=94and dreary plastic contents=E2=80=94Amex card & M= anf. Hanover Trust Credit too=E2=80=94business card from Mr. Spears British Home Ministe= r Drug Squad=E2=80=94my draft card=E2=80=94membership ACLU & Naropa Institute Inst= ructor=E2=80=99s identification Om Ah H=C5=ABm I continued chanting Om Ah H=C5=ABm Putting my palm on the neck of an 18 year old boy fingering my back pocket crying =E2=80=9CWhere=E2=80=99s the money=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9COm Ah H=C5=ABm there isn=E2=80=99t any=E2=80=9D My card Chief Boo-Hoo Neo American Church New Jersey & Lower East Side Om Ah H=C5=ABm =E2=80=94what not forgotten crowded wallet=E2=80=94Mobil = Credit, Shell? old lovers addresses on cardboard pieces, booksellers calling cards=E2=80=94 =E2=80=94=E2=80=9CShut up or we=E2=80=99ll murder you=E2=80=9D=E2=80=94=E2= =80=9COm Ah H=C5=ABm take it easy=E2=80=9D Lying on the floor shall I shout more loud?=E2=80=94the metal door closed o= n blackness one boy felt my broken healed ankle, looking for hundred dollar bills behin= d my stocking weren=E2=80=99t even there=E2=80=94a third boy untied my Seiko = Hong Kong watch rough from right wrist leaving a clasp-prick skin tiny bruise =E2=80=9CShut up and we=E2=80=99ll get out of here=E2=80=9D=E2=80=94and so = they left, as I rose from the cardboard mattress thinking Om Ah H=C5=ABm didn=E2=80= =99t stop em enough, the tone of voice too loud=E2=80=94my shoulder bag with 10,000 dollars full= of poetry left on the broken floor=E2=80=94 *November 2, 1974* On 1 August 2010 07:33, CA Conrad wrote: > MUGGED into poetry: http://somaticpoetryexercises.blogspot.com/ > > A new (Soma)tic Poetry Exercise for anyone who has been mugged. > > > > -- > PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > > THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 22:06:40 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Yeah, I know people say that. They're absolutely completely wrong. =20 Goldstein's not alone in that, lots of people think that's what =20 Wittgenstein said. It isn't. The fact that there are lots of peoeple =20 who completely fail to understand Wittgenstein is neither new nor =20 interesting. The bulk of the philosophy departments at every school in =20= England and America are obsessed with problems that if they'd bothered =20= t read and understand Philosophical Investigations would be revealed =20 as nothing of any importance at all. If you're genuinely curious and =20 not committed to a preconceived notion about the work he did on =20 mathematics, which is not complete or for that matter anything that he =20= intended to be published as representative of his views, but are =20 still, I think compelling refutations of formalism, then read the =20 Remarks on the Foundations of Mathematics. Read the Lectures on the =20 Foundations of Mathematics. Read the putnam & floyd paper that I =20 linked. it discusses specifically the paragraph Rebecca Goldtsein is =20 referring to and gives it a much more interesting and I think correct =20= reading. To say that Wittgenstein didn't "accept" Godel's results (or =20= axiomatic set theory's savior of Cantor from Russell's paradox for =20 that matter) is to completely misconstrue an semiotic and linguistic =20 position for a epistemological one. As for Godel, I won't deny that the Incompleteness Theorems or his =20 earlier completeness theorem are important. they are. they're =20 strikingly original and they present a fundamental problem for =20 mathematics that people are still grappling with. That said, they say =20= nothing at all about what mathematics is or why it has the force that =20= it does. Which is what Wittgenstein was thinking about and what he =20 meant about "bypassing godel." Which is important, if one remembers, =20 as one should, that Godel's '31 paper sent shock waves through the =20 world of academic logicians and it was all that anyone was talking =20 about in the thirties. Hell, it's still all that anyone talks about in =20= mathematical logic courses at most universities. You need to do =20 graduate work to start learning about much that happened after the =20 nineteen forties. Godel is revolutionary in mathematics. That said, walk into any Introductory Logic classroom in any =20 university in the world, and my guess is that at some point they're =20 going to talk about truth conditions and truth tables, and that's =20 Wittgenstein. I brought them up to refute your statement, that I think =20= Murat rightly calls out as unfairly dismissive, that he was a poet not =20= a logician. He made lasting contributions to how we think about truth =20= in formal reasoning, and that's important work. Is it as important as =20= Incompleteness? No, but who cares? Nothing is as world changing as =20 Incompleteness. It's the F=3DMA of mathematical logic. But it's not the =20= be all and end all and there are other more important things to =20 consider, particularly once you've accepted the most important result =20= of incompleteness which is that you can't ground mathematics in a =20 complete system of formal reasoning like the predicate calculus. Which =20= from one point of view, is earthshaking, but frankly given the place =20 that Wittgenstein was at with his thinking on epistemology and =20 language by the mid thirties probably to him was not all that =20 surprising. On Jul 30, 2010, at 11:50 AM, Jim Andrews wrote: > "Wittgenstein never accepted G=F6del's result; he said in The =20 > Foundations of > Mathematics, posthumously published, that his task is not to discuss =20= > G=F6del, > but rather to bypass G=F6del. He also called G=F6del's results the =20 > tricks of a > logical conjurer, logical artifices." > from http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/goldstein05/=20 > goldstein05_index.html > > my feeling is that there was no room for godel's work in =20 > wittgenstein's world view. he needed to not discuss godel but to =20 > bypass him. > > wittgenstein's work in mathematical logic is not even remotely as =20 > important as that of godel. and godel's work is beautiful in a way =20 > that challenges any poet writing pretty conjectures and enigmatic =20 > pronouncements. it's beautiful and it's true. it's expressed in =20 > proofs that have stood the test of time. it uses the equally =20 > beautiful work of georg cantor, uses his diagonal argument (which =20 > was also used later by turing). it's the most significant work of =20 > mathematical logic of the twentieth century. it eclipses the work of =20= > any poet on mathematical logic. it redefines the poetry and =20 > philosophy of mathematical logic. > > i think wittgenstein thought this sort of genuinely remarkable work =20= > in meta mathematics was simply impossible, that it was 'unsayable', =20= > and that his own sort of poetry was as good as it got. > > godel shows us what really excellent work in mathematical logic is. > > ja > http://vispo.com > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 > guidelines & sub/unsub info: = http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 14:43:56 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: MUGGED into poetry... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Last week I saw the Japanese movie Icho the Killer. Your poem reminded me of it. Ciao, Murat On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 10:33 AM, CA Conrad wrote: > MUGGED into poetry: http://somaticpoetryexercises.blogspot.com/ > > A new (Soma)tic Poetry Exercise for anyone who has been mugged. > > > > -- > PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > > THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 14:07:57 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: the renewal of Spirituality in Poetry" or we can use audience at this gig to help heep the spirit alive In-Reply-To: <20100801.145638.2800.33.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wish i cd be there...esp if it's air-conditioned! steve dalachinsky wrote: > Piano(S)Poem > Wednesday, August 18, 2010 > 2 great sets @ the Stone > (Ave. C & E. 2nd Street) > Manhattan - F train to 2nd Ave. > > 8 p.m. set 1 - pianist Stephanie Stone > w/ poets Eve Packer & Yuko Otomo > > 10 p.m. set 2 - pianist Matthew Shipp in duo > with poet Steve Dalachinsky > > $10 per set - if you want to stay for set 2 > just pay an additional $5 > > > stephanie stone will be leaving the city after this gig for awhile > so please drop by and say hello > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 12:09:19 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Is anybody claiming that Wittgenstein is a mathematician, unless you are equating philosophy and mathematics (which you may be doing) and saying that the only philosophy which is possible today is some kind of mathematical logic. I didn't say that. don't think I implied that. didn't even think it. > You are comparing apples and oranges. When we are talking about Wittgenstein's or Godel's poetry, it seems to me, we are basically using metaphors. > It has always been accepted that an elegant mathematical proof (or > process) has a beauty of its own. But that does not mean it is a beauty created by words. Mathematics is written. There's a language associated with math. In some schools, study of math gives you a foreign language credit. The subject of Godel's work was language. He proves stuff about formal systems. Formal systems are 'language games'. Open up the game box and you have an alphabet, rules for constructing propositions, rules of inference, existential and universal quantifiers, and so on. In previous eras, language was not the subject of study of mathematics. To read and understand Godel's work, like that of Cantor or Turing, is simply thrilling and satisfying in a way that I associate with reading the very best of poetry. And the subject of Godel's and Turing's work was language, in the above sense. They inquire into some of the limits of meaning and inquiry with language. > As for Godels proofs being "beautiful and true. it's expressed in proofs that have stood the test of time," you are squirting a main issue in logical positivism and in Wittgenstein: "can a mathematical proof be "true" in the empirical sense ("truths" expressed in prepositional statements). In that sense does mathematics tell us anything about the world though its applications undoubtedly affect it. Of course here I tend to be more on your side since, as I said in my previous, the distinctions between objective-subjective, emprical/nonsensical, etc. are essentially arbitrary abstractions at best and basically illusionary. Sorry, Murat, I have no idea what you mean. ja http://vispo.com August 2 2010 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 15:33:39 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: An Advertising Opportunity in Boog's Festival Issue Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, In a little under eight weeks, we'll be putting on our fourth annual Welcome to Boog City festival, featuring poets, musicians, and playwrights performing at four venues, in two boroughs, over five days, from Fri. Sept. 24-Tues. Sept. 28. Among the over 60 performers taking part are poets Steve Cannon, Laura Elrick, Farrah Field, John Godfrey, E. Tracy Grinnell, Shafer Hall, Pierre Joris, Erica Kaufman, Pattie McCarthy, Noelle Kocot, Douglas Rothschild, David Shapiro, and Anne Waldman. Ten days before the event, we'll be putting out the festival issue of Boog City. This issue will feature pieces on some of the performers and a full schedule, illustrated with images of each of the performers. Advertising in the festival issue of Boog City means you will reach more than 3,000 readers, poetry lovers, and small press aficionados throughout the East Village, other targeted areas of lower Manhattan; Williamsburg and Greenpoint, Brooklyn; as well as bonus distribution at Boog City's monthly events. That's an increase of 33.3% over our regular issues for no additional cost. And, since this issue is also a program for the festival, readers will give it a closer read as they check to see who's up later on that day and later on in the festival. Boog City continues to offer our special Small Press Ad Rates. That means when you advertise with us you will save 50% off of our regular display ad rates. * Full Page $220 * Half-Page $130 * Quarter-Page $70 * Eighth-Page $40 Here is a link to our full rate card: http://www.welcometoboogcity.com/ad_rates.pdf As I mentioned in previous emails to you, Boog City focuses on getting the word out about lesser-known artists, be they poets, prose writers, musicians, painters, photographers, or cartoonists. Each month we publish poetry from the likes of Anselm Berrigan, Renee Gladman, Lisa Jarnot, Eileen Myles, Kristin Prevallet, and Edwin Torres, alongside our Urban Folk music section, small press book reviews, political commentary, art, comics, and photographs. We look forward to working with you to bring your message to the local arts community to increase awareness and sales of your publications in the New York area. as ever, David -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W. 28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://welcometoboogcity.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 20:46:43 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: michael farrell Subject: Re: Otoliths #18 is now live In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable sheila murphy reviews my (mine & jills & those in its) anthology in otolith= s 18 http://the-otolith.blogspot.com/2010/06/sheila-e-murphy-review-of-out-of-bo= x.html would be great if anyone associated with university libraries could order o= ne esp those with queer or australian studies -- also if there are any editors keen to have it reviewed & would like a copy = let me know michael > Date: Sun=2C 1 Aug 2010 00:18:23 +1000 > From: mhcyoung@GMAIL.COM > Subject: Otoliths #18 is now live > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 > Issue 18=2C the southern winter 2010 issue=2C of > Otolithshas just gone live. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Let's get the obvious pun out of the way first. This is an august issue. > It's packed with text in its many forms=97as story=2C essay=2C review=2C = or poem=97as > well as a wide range of visual media: collages=2C frottages=2C glyphs=2C > postcards=2C paintings=2C notebook pages & some great new vispo. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Included in the issue are Emma Smith=2C Eileen R. Tabios=2C Mark Cunningh= am=2C Ed > Baker=2C Piotr Gwiazda=2C Anne Gorrick=2C Ed Higgins=2C Jukka-Pekka Kervi= nen=2C > Manfred Weidhorn=2C Carlos Soto-Rom=E1n=2C Sally Ann McIntyre=2C James Ma= ughn=2C Mark > Francis Johnson=2C Sheila E. Murphy=2C Amanda Earl=2C Orchid Tierney=2C P= hilip Byron > Oakes=2C Raymond Farr=2C Joe Balaz=2C Randall Brock=2C Meaghan Lank=2C Je= ff Harrison=2C > Mary Kasimor=2C Bruno Neiva=2C Benjamin Winkler=2C M. V. Montgomery=2C Ri= c Carfagna=2C > Jessica Breheny=2C Jal Nicholl=2C Alexander Jorgensen=2C Mark Stricker=2C= Reed > Altemus=2C Jenny Enochsson=2C Felino Soriano=2C Corey Wakeling=2C Grzegor= z > Wr=F3blewski=2C Lars Palm=2C Thomas Fink=2C Dorothee Lang & Steve Wing=2C= Larry > Sawyer=2C Paul Siegell=2C Beth Boettcher=2C Charles Freeland=2C Jake Davi= d=2C M=E1rton > Kopp=E1ny=2C Katrinka Moore=2C Aidan Semmens=2C Connor Stratman=2C Stephe= n Nelson & > Mike Cannell=2C SJ Fowler=2C Cath Vidler=2C Cecelia Chapman=2C rob mclenn= an=2C Cherie > Hunter Day=2C Neil Ellman=2C Geof Huth=2C R. Riekki=2C Tony Brinkley=2C s= ean burn=2C > Scott Metz=2C Travis Macdonald=2C Stuart Barnes=2C Spencer Selby=2C Keith > Higginbotham=2C Sam Langer=2C Tony Rickaby=2C Bob Heman=2C Andrew Topel= =2C Andrew > Taylor=2C John Martone=2C Brad Vogler=2C Bobbi Lurie=2C Michael Brandonis= io=2C Yonah > Korngold=2C J. D. Nelson=2C Tyler L. Gobble reviewing Adam Robinson's *Sa= y=2C Poem > *=2C Sheila E. Murphy reviewing *Out of the Box: Contemporary Australian = Gay > and Lesbian Poets*=2C Cassie Eddington=2C & Colleen Lookingbill. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Enough there=2C & of sufficient variety=2C to keep everybody happy. >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 14:12:05 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Interesting: Write a beauty proof, a proof that proves the existence of, ug= h, =0Abeauty. I believe that such a thing exist, and perhaps Godel's work i= s more =0Abeautiful than anything Witt wrote, but still, when one begins to= talk =0Aaesthetics, one is on fuzzy, very fuzzy ground. Of course, I know = almost nothing =0Aas far as mathmatical logic is concerned. & I suffer from= severe- bad- =0Aphilosophy class PTSD, know what I'm saying? =0A=0A=0A=0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Jim Andrews <= jim@VISPO.COM>=0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Fri, July 30, 201= 0 2:50:54 PM=0ASubject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry"=0A=0A"Wit= tgenstein never accepted G=F6del's result; he said in The Foundations of=0A= Mathematics, posthumously published, that his task is not to discuss G=F6de= l,=0Abut rather to bypass G=F6del. He also called G=F6del's results the tri= cks of a=0Alogical conjurer, logical artifices."=0Afrom http://www.edge.org= /3rd_culture/goldstein05/goldstein05_index.html=0A=0Amy feeling is that the= re was no room for godel's work in wittgenstein's world =0Aview. he needed = to not discuss godel but to bypass him.=0A=0Awittgenstein's work in mathema= tical logic is not even remotely as important as =0Athat of godel. and gode= l's work is beautiful in a way that challenges any poet =0Awriting pretty c= onjectures and enigmatic pronouncements. it's beautiful and it's =0Atrue. i= t's expressed in proofs that have stood the test of time. it uses the =0Aeq= ually beautiful work of georg cantor, uses his diagonal argument (which was= =0Aalso used later by turing). it's the most significant work of mathemati= cal logic =0Aof the twentieth century. it eclipses the work of any poet on = mathematical =0Alogic. it redefines the poetry and philosophy of mathematic= al logic.=0A=0Ai think wittgenstein thought this sort of genuinely remarkab= le work in meta =0Amathematics was simply impossible, that it was 'unsayabl= e', and that his own =0Asort of poetry was as good as it got.=0A=0Agodel sh= ows us what really excellent work in mathematical logic is.=0A=0Aja=0Ahttp:= //vispo.com =0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated = & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & =0Asub/unsub info: http://e= pc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 22:16:30 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) That's really strange. As far as I know most undergrad philosophy =20 programs require a course in modern philosophy where you read =20 descartes, hume, berkeley, spinoza, leibniz, bacon, hobbes, locke, and =20= kant. the weird platonism I was referring to has to do with Godel's later =20 thinking which was heavily informed by Leibniz's monism which led him =20= to a thoroughgoing idealism in almost everything, to the point where =20 he was willing to assert that mathematical forms of the platonic kind =20= were the only real things and formed the monad's of Leibniz's =20 metaphysics. It's not weird because it's a weird view of the world and =20= what it is, although I think it is pretty weird in that sense too, but =20= rather because it rested, as I understand it, on disjunctive reasoning =20= that either the mind was a sort of turing machine subject to halting =20 problems and other unsolvables, or it was capable of surpassing the =20 calculating powers of machines through access to the higher realm of =20 pure mathematics. The latter which he used to deny "brain as turing =20 machine" thinking was founded very much on some metaphysical and =20 religious thinking which to my mind is not particularly appropriate =20 for making those kinds of arguments. the weirdness is not the claim, =20 that is, because platonism is no weirder than formalism to my way of =20 thinking, but the manner by which it was argued for, which from my =20 point of view looks to be very similar to a religious attitude for =20 Godel. Which, while weird, I also think is kind of admirable even if =20 it's completely wrong. But then, I feel the same way about Berkeley =20 and spinoza, although not so much leibniz. On Jul 30, 2010, at 8:49 AM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > What does exactly "weird platonism" mean? Could you explain. What is =20= > weird > about them? Does that mean that one is not agreeing with what he is =20= > saying. > It is easy to call someone crazy under the circumstances. It has =20 > happened > quite often. I would really appreciate if someone can explain this > "weirdness." Is it weird because Platonism is weird" or it is weird =20= > because > he misreads Platonism or is it weird just because he was crazy? > > As for "wittgenstein was a terrific poet mistaken for a logician by =20= > some": > that sounds a complete put down to me. It is like saying a woman =20 > should stay > home and raise children. > > Jim, recently I talked to someone who had just graduated from =20 > Princeton > College majoring in philosophy. It appeared to me -though he tried =20 > to cover > it- he had not heard of Descartes's "cogito ergo sum." He had failed =20= > to pick > up a reference to it. I understand the whole philosophy department at > Princeton focuses on symbolic logic? > > No Plato, no Descartes -all relegated to the realm of "poetry," etc. =20= > Is that > what one means by "weird," that it is not symbolic logic? > > Ciao, > > Murat > > > > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 11:13 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: > >> just going to chime in with my usual response to this statement =20 >> that i >>> think he understood godel fine, >>> >> >> o i think you're mistaken, jason, fer a change. the best thing i've =20= >> read >> about godel/wittgenstein is by Rebecca Goldstein at >> http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/goldstein05/=20 >> goldstein05_index.html . if >> you >> search it for wittgenstein, you'll come across this, for instance: >> >> "Wittgenstein never accepted G=F6del's result; he said in The =20 >> Foundations of >> Mathematics, posthumously published, that his task is not to =20 >> discuss G=F6del, >> but rather to bypass G=F6del. He also called G=F6del's results the =20= >> tricks of a >> logical conjurer, logical artifices." >> >> but the whole above url is quite fascinating. strongly recommended! >> >> here is what godel said: >> >> "As far as my theorem about undecidable propositions is >> concerned, it is indeed clear ... that Wittgenstein did not >> understand it (or pretended not to understand it). He >> interprets it as a kind of logical paradox, while in fact it is >> just the opposite, namely a mathematical theorem within >> an absolutely uncontroversial part of mathematics >> (finitary number theory or combinatorics)". >> >> >> >> i think he got the better of turing in their debates, >>> >> >> i'm not familiar with any debates between them. sounds interesting. =20= >> what >> documentation exists of these debates? >> >> >> and that his view of what mathematics are is much closer to what's >>> probably right than Godel's weird platonism. >>> >> >> the veracity of godel's results in mathematical logic do not depend =20= >> on his >> "weird platonism" at all, of course, as i expect you fully =20 >> understand. >> >> godel's platonism got weird toward the end of his life. >> >> godel starved himself to death out of paranoia about his food being >> poisoned. he suffered from mental issues toward the end of his =20 >> life. his >> extreme platonism is associated with his period of decline, not his >> earlier, >> more robust period, when he published his famous results. the poor =20= >> guy went >> off his rocker, finally. >> >> wittgenstein was a terrific poet mistaken for a logician by some. i =20= >> am >> partial to such poets. >> >> ja >> http://vispo.com >> july 29 2010 >> >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 >> guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 > guidelines & sub/unsub info: = http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 19:09:23 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Scott Howard Subject: Call for Book Reviewer: _"The Small Space of a Pause"_ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The editors at RECONFIGURATIONS are seeking a book reviewer for Elisabeth W. Joyce's _"The Small Space of a Pause": Susan Howe's Poetry and the Spaces Between_ (Bucknell, 2010). Length for the review: between 1,500 and 2,500 words. Deadline: November first. If you're interested, please send a 2-page CV (or a brief note on your publications) along w/ a reply e-mail to: showard@du.edu RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry / Literature & Culture http://reconfigurations.blogspot.com/ /// ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 18:53:26 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: <9F7A5991-3498-44EC-9347-64FF1C09905B@uw.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thanks, Jason, for the opening for me to chime in on this thread. The reason I was a religion and not a philosophy major was there were too many gang bang history of philo surveys forcing study of a bunch of white guys. My specialty was mysticism. As I mentioned in passing on my blog, what it more problematic in this discussion to me is that, 1) Adam's sparking essay totally ignored the HUGE amount of experimental women's poetry which has a spiritual, if not religious, dimension. It's across traditions and practices. It includes most of the "major" writers. So I feel like the initial spark was based on -- dunno -- not reading Scalapino? Blau DuPlessis? Karasick? Hillman? Carson? Ronk? Fanny Howe? Then, what about the writers influenced by the transcendentalism of Emerson? Lauterbach? Brown?, 2) isn't it callow to call for an increased spirituality when it is the population that does not believe in any vague spirituality, is secular, may be radically peaceful, is not twelve-stepping (see vague spirituality, is not Mary Karr or Nick Flynn), may be under jihad, etc., that is under seige/on the edge/writing in danger? Admittedly, this is not to your point, but the call for a poetry that includes ideas that are not part/cannot be part of anyone's direct experience, but only part of their received beliefs/assumptions/cultural conditioning: the approved narrative, the way we always interpret these things: the opposite of poetry. Then too, of course Cantor is spiritual, and you've done a good job elucidating the aspects of ideas of the "ineffable" around W in particular, but -- how is language exactly unable to deal with experience? How is experience -- gosh, can't communicate anything about it? How are the quotes from religious texts about the bomb appropriate? The Dao of Physics -- what was THAT thing? -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 04:19:29 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9CThe_Blast_Area=E2=80=9D_?= by John Tranter Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc , Wryting-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is =E2=80=9CThe Blast Area=E2=80=9D by J= ohn Tranter =20 =20 Description: =20 John Tranter's =E2=80=9CThe Blast Area=E2=80=9D (originally published as a = pamphlet in 1974, and no longer in print) consists of poems that are varied= and strange, often veering away from common sense into a quirky surrealism= . The final third of the book consists of 'The Poem in Love', a sequence of= fifteen pseudo-sonnets (set up by an epigraph from the possibly fictitious= Paul Ducasse) which critic Andrew Johnson noted, 'might stand for the vari= ety of strategies we employ to make sense of the world, and for the fleetin= g, unstable patterns we think we perceive in our experience. It's as if hav= ing reached an extreme of cynicism about "meaning", Tranter lets it in thro= ugh the back door, and a new-found humour wit =20 =20 Available as a free ebook here: =20 http://www.lulu.com/product/ebook/the-blast-area/12089423 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 22:33:56 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: <9F7A5991-3498-44EC-9347-64FF1C09905B@uw.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jason, I get your point. Deleuse thought very highly of Liebniz. Ciao, Murat On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 1:16 AM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > That's really strange. As far as I know most undergrad philosophy program= s > require a course in modern philosophy where you read descartes, hume, > berkeley, spinoza, leibniz, bacon, hobbes, locke, and kant. > > the weird platonism I was referring to has to do with Godel's later > thinking which was heavily informed by Leibniz's monism which led him to = a > thoroughgoing idealism in almost everything, to the point where he was > willing to assert that mathematical forms of the platonic kind were the o= nly > real things and formed the monad's of Leibniz's metaphysics. It's not wei= rd > because it's a weird view of the world and what it is, although I think i= t > is pretty weird in that sense too, but rather because it rested, as I > understand it, on disjunctive reasoning that either the mind was a sort o= f > turing machine subject to halting problems and other unsolvables, or it w= as > capable of surpassing the calculating powers of machines through access t= o > the higher realm of pure mathematics. The latter which he used to deny > "brain as turing machine" thinking was founded very much on some > metaphysical and religious thinking which to my mind is not particularly > appropriate for making those kinds of arguments. the weirdness is not the > claim, that is, because platonism is no weirder than formalism to my way = of > thinking, but the manner by which it was argued for, which from my point = of > view looks to be very similar to a religious attitude for Godel. Which, > while weird, I also think is kind of admirable even if it's completely > wrong. But then, I feel the same way about Berkeley and spinoza, although > not so much leibniz. > > > > On Jul 30, 2010, at 8:49 AM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > > What does exactly "weird platonism" mean? Could you explain. What is wei= rd >> about them? Does that mean that one is not agreeing with what he is >> saying. >> It is easy to call someone crazy under the circumstances. It has happene= d >> quite often. I would really appreciate if someone can explain this >> "weirdness." Is it weird because Platonism is weird" or it is weird >> because >> he misreads Platonism or is it weird just because he was crazy? >> >> As for "wittgenstein was a terrific poet mistaken for a logician by some= ": >> that sounds a complete put down to me. It is like saying a woman should >> stay >> home and raise children. >> >> Jim, recently I talked to someone who had just graduated from Princeton >> College majoring in philosophy. It appeared to me -though he tried to >> cover >> it- he had not heard of Descartes's "cogito ergo sum." He had failed to >> pick >> up a reference to it. I understand the whole philosophy department at >> Princeton focuses on symbolic logic? >> >> No Plato, no Descartes -all relegated to the realm of "poetry," etc. Is >> that >> what one means by "weird," that it is not symbolic logic? >> >> Ciao, >> >> Murat >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 11:13 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: >> >> just going to chime in with my usual response to this statement that i >>> >>>> think he understood godel fine, >>>> >>>> >>> o i think you're mistaken, jason, fer a change. the best thing i've rea= d >>> about godel/wittgenstein is by Rebecca Goldstein at >>> http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/goldstein05/goldstein05_index.html . if >>> you >>> search it for wittgenstein, you'll come across this, for instance: >>> >>> "Wittgenstein never accepted G=F6del's result; he said in The Foundatio= ns >>> of >>> Mathematics, posthumously published, that his task is not to discuss >>> G=F6del, >>> but rather to bypass G=F6del. He also called G=F6del's results the tric= ks of >>> a >>> logical conjurer, logical artifices." >>> >>> but the whole above url is quite fascinating. strongly recommended! >>> >>> here is what godel said: >>> >>> "As far as my theorem about undecidable propositions is >>> concerned, it is indeed clear ... that Wittgenstein did not >>> understand it (or pretended not to understand it). He >>> interprets it as a kind of logical paradox, while in fact it is >>> just the opposite, namely a mathematical theorem within >>> an absolutely uncontroversial part of mathematics >>> (finitary number theory or combinatorics)". >>> >>> >>> >>> i think he got the better of turing in their debates, >>> >>>> >>>> >>> i'm not familiar with any debates between them. sounds interesting. wha= t >>> documentation exists of these debates? >>> >>> >>> and that his view of what mathematics are is much closer to what's >>> >>>> probably right than Godel's weird platonism. >>>> >>>> >>> the veracity of godel's results in mathematical logic do not depend on >>> his >>> "weird platonism" at all, of course, as i expect you fully understand. >>> >>> godel's platonism got weird toward the end of his life. >>> >>> godel starved himself to death out of paranoia about his food being >>> poisoned. he suffered from mental issues toward the end of his life. hi= s >>> extreme platonism is associated with his period of decline, not his >>> earlier, >>> more robust period, when he published his famous results. the poor guy >>> went >>> off his rocker, finally. >>> >>> wittgenstein was a terrific poet mistaken for a logician by some. i am >>> partial to such poets. >>> >>> ja >>> http://vispo.com >>> july 29 2010 >>> >>> >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines >>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >>> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 21:55:14 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: John Cunningham Subject: New Narrative MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recently heard about this new literary phenomenon called the New Narrative. What is this? John Herbert Cunningham ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 01:58:34 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Robert Dewhurst Subject: Re: New Narrative In-Reply-To: <001701cb32b7$4e310330$ea930990$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, Robert Gluck on NN (wonderful & best place to start): http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit/narrativity/issue_one/gluck.html Bruce Boone's MY WALK WITH BOB: http://www.spdbooks.org/Producte/0974950262/my-walk-with-bob.aspx Bruce Boone's THE TRUTH ABOUT TED (full text): http://xpoetics.blogspot.com/2010/03/truth-about-ted-reprint-in-honor-of.html Rob Halpern on Steve Abbott's NN zine, SOUP: http://jacketmagazine.com/39/perelman-halpern.shtml Dennis Cooper on NN: http://denniscooper-theweaklings.blogspot.com/2007_10_10_archive.html Kevin Killian interview w/ Gary Sullivan: http://home.jps.net/~nada/killian.htm There's more out there (many google-able reviews of Boone's recent Century of Clouds reissue, for instance -- by Dana Ward, Colin Herd, & others; or the 90s anthology BITING THE ERROR: WRITERS EXPLORE NARRATIVE), but these would be my go-tos. Kaplan Harris also had a very helpful article in a recent issue of AMERICAN LITERATURE, tho it's not public online: vol. 81 no. 4 (Dec. 2009): 805-832, in case you wanna track it down. An interesting thing for me is the way New Narrative concerns/poetics articulated at the turn of the 80s dovetail in the early 90s so closely with some of the writing being put out on Semiotexte's fantastic, mostly NY-based "Native Agents" list curated by Chris Kraus: Kraus's own novels (I LOVE DICK being something of a quantuum leap & manifesto), David Rattray's wonderful HOW I BECAME ONE OF THE INVISIBLE, Eileen Myles's patently non-Language 1st-person poems (see her remarks at the AdFemPo conference last fall posted on Harriet ... & her novel THE INFERNO finally came out, like, today), etc. I've always been compelled by this connection, but NN writers don't claim any influence on this somewhat later stuff outside their 'official' roster; as Boone simply says, "something was in the air" back then ... best, Robbie John Cunningham wrote: > I recently heard about this new literary phenomenon called the New > Narrative. What is this? > > John Herbert Cunningham ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 02:50:27 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: Re: the renewal of Spirituality in Poetry" or we can use audience at this gig to help heep the spirit alive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ha it's an airconditioned steam bath On Mon, 2 Aug 2010 14:07:57 -0500 Maria Damon writes: > wish i cd be there...esp if it's air-conditioned! > > steve dalachinsky wrote: > > Piano(S)Poem > > Wednesday, August 18, 2010 > > 2 great sets @ the Stone > > (Ave. C & E. 2nd Street) > > Manhattan - F train to 2nd Ave. > > > > 8 p.m. set 1 - pianist Stephanie Stone > > w/ poets Eve Packer & Yuko Otomo > > > > 10 p.m. set 2 - pianist Matthew Shipp in duo > > with poet Steve Dalachinsky > > > > $10 per set - if you want to stay for set 2 > > just pay an additional $5 > > > > > > stephanie stone will be leaving the city after this gig for > awhile > > so please drop by and say hello > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 09:29:52 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Completely Objective Review + My Autogeography Comments: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Today's my bday (yes, I'm fishing), so if you are in Walt Whitman's birthplace today, holla backchannel and I'll get you in the door... For those not in attendance, a completely objective review -- http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-things.html And an Autogeography -- http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Chronic/amy-king.html Kiss, Amy ******** Poetry, Publishing, Women & the Internet + http://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/your-own-revolution-poetry-publishing-the-internet/ Poets for Living Waters + http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/ ******** ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 00:30:36 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: <1B5F7716-FD78-41F4-90E6-2BCE3ED2B5F9@uw.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit somebody else would have invented truth tables if he hadn't. they're like shopping carts. would somebody else have done godel's strikingly original work? probably. eventually. but probably it would have taken quite a while. i am attempting to download "Cora Diamond [Ed.] - Wittgenstein's Lectures on the Foundations of Mathematics, 1939". meanwhile, i've perused http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/wittgenstein-mathematics and the links you provided, jason. wittgenstein's philosophy of mathematics is doomed to the obscurity suffered by other similarly finitistic approaches. he objects to set theory on philosophical grounds. which is fine but that sort of objection is not nearly as important as showing real contradictions in the theory. he didn't manage to do that. the 'crisis of the foundations of mathematics' in the nineteenth century that motivated the development of set theory, including cantor's work on infinite sets, included an atmosphere in which there was great distrust about assumptions of the actually infinite. cantor's work was widely regarded as fatally flawed for its assumption of the existence of the actually infinite. the famous antagonisms of kronecker and poincare against cantor, and cantor's relegation to the margins of academia. and his ongoing battles with mental problems. and cantor's own exacerbation of his problems by his pronouncement that the existence of his transfinite numbers was justified in the mind of god. but cantor and others were sufficiently careful in their dealings with the actually infinite that it has not, in fact, blown up in their faces. every undergraduate honours math student does a course in 'real analysis' that develops the real number system from the ground up using set theory and cantor's work (among many others). finitistic approaches, very famously, generally have difficulty proving many of the most useful results of mathematics. the results that any theory simply has to be able to produce or no one uses the theory, regardless of its philosophical nobility. by the way, jason, as an aside, when i studied cantor's work as an undergrad, well, it really blew me away as beautiful and profound. i understood why, going back to the time of pythagoras, mathematics has been associated with 'divine knowledge'. i mean, in the case of cantor's work, we learn things actually worth knowing about the infinite. "no one shall expel us from the paradise that cantor has created." david hilbert said that. and no one has managed it. not wittgenstein, not brouwer, nobody. cantor isn't the saviour. he was a 'martyr', of sorts (figuratively). so too with godel and turing. ja http://vispo.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 08:12:23 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Christophe Casamassima Subject: Re: New Narrative In-Reply-To: <001701cb32b7$4e310330$ea930990$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 It's like old narrative, but newer. Eventually it will get old and become the not so new but not as old as the old new narrative. My God, a hundred years from now the Library of Congress system will be inundated by huge strings of genre names. Christophe "not as old as I was tomorrow" Casamassima On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:55 PM, John Cunningham wrote: > I recently heard about this new literary phenomenon called the New > Narrative. What is this? > > John Herbert Cunningham > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 09:16:48 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Melnicove Subject: LITERATURE OR OTHER MATERIALS In-Reply-To: AANLkTin7AQ15npBSYvHetzOTW8DWjvtN0c_gD3bYb9Py@mail.gmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LITERATURE OR OTHER MATERIALS BY NON-EMPLOYEES IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED ON= THESE PREMISES. http://mmelnicove.tumblr.com/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 09:50:12 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Hadbawnik Subject: seeking panelists for medieval congress at kzoo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Listservers: Please see below, with regards to a roundtable discussion I'm organizing for next year's Medieval Congress in Kalamazoo, MI. We are looking for 1-2 more participants who are engaging in a scholarly way with medieval literature and contemporary poetics. Please back-channel to me if you are interested. The congress takes place May 12-15, 2011. best, David * * * * * * *Queering the Muse: Medieval Poetry and the Contemporary Poetic Imagination= * A Roundtable, with David Hadbawnik (SUNY-UB), Chris Piuma (U Toronto), Dan Remein (NYU), Sean Reynolds (SUNY-UB), others TBD. Respondent: Eileen Joy. Presiding: Anna Klosowska. 20th-century poets have long used the medieval for inspiration, notably Ezr= a Pound, whose version of *The Seafarer* marked an important step in his poetic development, as well as being a superb contribution to the Anglo-Saxon translation corpus in its own right. However, not enough though= t has been given to the ways in which contemporary poets reuse, reinterpret, and otherwise engage with medieval poetic tropes and practices. How can formally experimental =93translations=94 of Old English, which take into ac= count recent poetic and translation theory, be beneficial to the contemporary avant-garde? Or, to turn the question around, how can quintessentially contemporary reading and writing practices=97such as the game-based approac= hes of OuLiPo, Conceptual Art with its ideas of =93exhaustiveness=94 and boredo= m, and the use of factual/archival material=97provide ways of reading or understanding medieval writing? The roundtable participants will explore th= e way such poetic practice constitutes a queer approach to medieval translation, which results in a wilder, more experimental, and perhaps true= r way of understanding and engaging with the medieval poem. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 07:21:46 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Obododimma Oha Subject: Hot Seat Millionaires Comments: To: USAAfricaDialogue , ederi , obodooha@yahoo.com, elsalites@yahoogroups.com, "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" , Philosophy and Psychology of Cyberspace MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Playing =91Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?=92 from a Stingerweb software on= a computer and living the illusion of winning in US dollars are obviously not as attractive as being Frank Edoho=92s petrified guest. The truth is that s= ome thousands of naira in hand are worth millions of US dollars in the imaginar= y computer bush. Even if the naira has become local wallpaper that lacks powe= r compared to the US dollar, its real game value rises for Nigerian players looking out for the secret to survival." Read full text of "Hot Seat Millionaires" at: http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Home/5601796-182/hot_seat_millionaire= s___.csp --=20 Obododimma Oha http://udude.wordpress.com/ Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 12:25:35 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Black Mountain North Symposium In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Announcing the Black Mountain North Symposium, Rochester, New York, October 1-3. This will be one of a number of events across a number of North American commemorating the centennial of poet and Black Mountain College rector Charles Olson. Black Mountain North will not be limited to poetry panels and readings, but will include discussions and exhibits in the visual and performing arts in the collaborative and multidiciplinary spirit of Balck Mountain College. Featured speakers will include Ed Sanders, mary Emma Harris, Martha Rittenhouse Treichler, Albert Glover, Penelope Creeley, Jen Bevin and David Landrey, among many others. Program and other information can be found at: www.blackmountainnorth.org Any questions you may have can be directed to John Roche at jfrgla@rit.edu ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 12:40:39 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Paul Siegell Subject: Thursday at the U of PENN Bookstore Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" A Charity Event! This Thursday, August 5th from 6-8 @ the University of Pennsylvania Bookstore, the Light of Unity Association and Mad Poets Performance Serie= s presents: Paul Siegell * Bojan Louis * Kevyn Johnson * Stephanie Durann Seymour * Daniel Schall * Francesca Constanzo * Vernyce Dannells *and music by: Jaz= * Anwar Thurston a/k/a Pastor Green. Hosted by Ebony Malaika Collier. Poetry and music to benefit City Team Ministries: http://www.cityteam.org= / Here's the facebook invite: http://bit.ly/ae8Nnl Thank you, Paul=20 http://paulsiegell.blogspot.com/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 12:55:06 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: Re: Completely Objective Review + My Autogeography MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit happy b day give walt a hug for me On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 09:29:52 -0700 amy king writes: > Today's my bday (yes, I'm fishing), so if you are in Walt Whitman's > birthplace > today, holla backchannel and I'll get you in the door... > > For those not in attendance, a completely objective review > -- > http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-thi ngs.html > > > And an Autogeography -- > http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Chronic/amy-king.html > > Kiss, > > Amy > > > > ******** > Poetry, Publishing, Women & the Internet > + > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/your-own-revolution-poetry-publis hing-the-internet/ > > > > Poets for Living Waters > + http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/ > ******** > > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 11:40:33 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: John Cunningham Subject: Re: New Narrative In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you, Christophe. I enjoyed reading your response even though it didn't enlighten me one little bit. Still, the humour was entertaining. John Herbert Cunningham -----Original Message----- From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Christophe Casamassima Sent: August-03-10 7:12 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: New Narrative It's like old narrative, but newer. Eventually it will get old and become the not so new but not as old as the old new narrative. My God, a hundred years from now the Library of Congress system will be inundated by huge strings of genre names. Christophe "not as old as I was tomorrow" Casamassima On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:55 PM, John Cunningham wrote: > I recently heard about this new literary phenomenon called the New > Narrative. What is this? > > John Herbert Cunningham > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 12:13:06 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Completely Objective Review + My Autogeography In-Reply-To: <31917.4810.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HAPPY BIRTHDAY AMY amy king wrote: > Today's my bday (yes, I'm fishing), so if you are in Walt Whitman's birthplace > today, holla backchannel and I'll get you in the door... > > For those not in attendance, a completely objective review > -- http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-things.html > > > And an Autogeography -- http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Chronic/amy-king.html > > Kiss, > > Amy > > > > ******** > Poetry, Publishing, Women & the Internet > + http://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/your-own-revolution-poetry-publishing-the-internet/ > > > Poets for Living Waters > + http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/ > ******** > > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 14:36:09 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Christophe Casamassima Subject: Re: New Narrative In-Reply-To: <003401cb332a$997955e0$cc6c01a0$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It was not meant to be entertaining. Poetry can never be entertaining. On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 12:40 PM, John Cunningham wrote: > Thank you, Christophe. I enjoyed reading your response even though it did= n't > enlighten me one little bit. Still, the =A0humour was entertaining. > John Herbert Cunningham > > -----Original Message----- > From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Christophe Casamassima > Sent: August-03-10 7:12 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: New Narrative > > It's like old narrative, but newer. Eventually it will get old and > become the not so new but not as old as the old new narrative. My God, > a hundred years from now the Library of Congress system will be > inundated by huge strings of genre names. > > Christophe "not as old as I was tomorrow" Casamassima > > On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:55 PM, John Cunningham > wrote: >> I recently heard about this new literary phenomenon called the New >> Narrative. What is this? >> >> John Herbert Cunningham >> >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 14:44:11 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Emma Bolden Subject: Re: New Narrative In-Reply-To: <003401cb332a$997955e0$cc6c01a0$@com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 8A293) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I think I am going to start a movement call Old Narrative. It will involve p= utting old books in a blender and seeing what happens. How does the New Narrative relate to New Narrativism, I wonder? Sent from my iTelephoning Device On Aug 3, 2010, at 12:40 PM, John Cunningham w= rote: > Thank you, Christophe. I enjoyed reading your response even though it didn= 't > enlighten me one little bit. Still, the humour was entertaining. > John Herbert Cunningham >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Christophe Casamassima > Sent: August-03-10 7:12 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: New Narrative >=20 > It's like old narrative, but newer. Eventually it will get old and > become the not so new but not as old as the old new narrative. My God, > a hundred years from now the Library of Congress system will be > inundated by huge strings of genre names. >=20 > Christophe "not as old as I was tomorrow" Casamassima >=20 > On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:55 PM, John Cunningham > wrote: >> I recently heard about this new literary phenomenon called the New >> Narrative. What is this? >>=20 >> John Herbert Cunningham >>=20 >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideline= s > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideline= s & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 16:09:39 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Completely Objective Review + My Autogeography In-Reply-To: <4C584E22.4050201@umn.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit you are everywhere amy--good to hear you read & meet you too--happy days & year On 8/3/10 1:13 PM, "Maria Damon" wrote: > HAPPY BIRTHDAY AMY > > amy king wrote: >> Today's my bday (yes, I'm fishing), so if you are in Walt Whitman's >> birthplace >> today, holla backchannel and I'll get you in the door... >> >> For those not in attendance, a completely objective review >> -- >> http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-things. >> html >> >> >> And an Autogeography -- http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Chronic/amy-king.html >> >> Kiss, >> >> Amy >> >> >> >> ******** >> Poetry, Publishing, Women & the Internet >> + >> http://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/your-own-revolution-poetry-publishing >> -the-internet/ >> >> >> Poets for Living Waters >> + http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/ >> ******** >> >> >> >> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & >> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 18:06:36 -0400 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Rob McLennan Subject: 12 or 20 small press questions with Meredith Quartermain, on Nomados; http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/2010/08/12-or-20-small-press-questions-meredith.html rob -- writer/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...poetry - wild horses (U of Alberta) ...2nd novel - missing persons www.abovegroundpress.blogspot.com * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 22:28:27 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: derekrogerson Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: <50797AE1003B408E94FB367BB841D19E@OwnerPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Coincidently, I've been reading Laura (Riding) Jackson's spiritual testament "The Telling" and it is very moving http://books.google.com/books?id=DOhaAAAAMAAJ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 18:12:14 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: <50797AE1003B408E94FB367BB841D19E@OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) I had a similar experience with transfinite numbers in an advanced =20 logic class as an undergrad where we touched on real analysis on the =20 way to understanding completeness and consistency proofs. I had a =20 similar experience when my calculus instructor proved the power rule =20 for me in office hours. i would never think to deny that there's =20 something truly beautiful that goes on in mathematics, and I don't =20 think the German Engineer would have denied that either. Someday I =20 hope to be able as an old man to return to this stuff and study non-=20 euclidean geometry and mathematical logic again, because you're =20 absolutely right that it is a wonderful and amazing thing. Where I =20 think I differ from you Godel Turing and Cantor is that I'm not =20 comfortable moving from there to making metaphysical or ontological =20 claims about things like numbers or geometrical shapes. To me, this =20 stuff is just magic (per my def. of magic here: = http://www.wetasphalt.com/content/magician-priest-conjurer-lawyer-law-myst= icism-magic-and-occult)=20 and there I think is probably Wittgenstein's biggest failing, in =20 that he didn't take his thoughts on magic far enough. Although he =20 rightly took Fraser to task for the Golden Bough interpretation of =20 shamanism, I think he didn't pursue the connection between magic, the =20= inneffable, and religious ritual to the end that I think his view of =20 language allows. As for truth tables, you're right, and provably so. Emil Post =20 developed them in the 1920s and can't have read the Tractatus, because =20= it was as yet unpublished and unknown in the US. I do think the =20 semantic theory of truth embodied in his invention of truth conditions =20= (Tractatus 4.4 and sub comments) is a significant contribution as =20 well, but even Wittgenstein might have debated that since he later =20 became something like a deflationist and his analysis of truth is one =20= of the things that I think one can firmly point to as a definite =20 example of the differences between early and later Wittgenstein. That =20= said, I think one goes a bit awry to think that Wittgenstein's import =20= for mathematics rests solely on his contributions to mathematical =20 logic. I think, for example, there's no diminishing of the beauty of =20 mathematics if one adopts his antiplatonism, and I think he makes =20 strong arguments that a platonic theory of number, for example, has to =20= answer. More importantly, I think he makes a strong connection between =20= mathematical meaning and mathematical application. Which is to say, I =20= think on a Wittgensteinian view, that the discovery that logarithms =20 were useful in the calculus and in chemistry gave new meaning to =20 logarithms that weren't there for the early inventors of logarithms =20 who had no knowledge of calculus, the physics of cosmology, or =20 scientific chemistry. They were primarily a short hand for dealing =20 with complex calculations involving ratios. I think this analysis as =20 finding new meaning for an old part of mathematics makes a lot more =20 sense of the human encounter with new mathematical applications than =20 does the platonic view that those mathematical entities already exist =20= in the world waiting to be discovered whether people come along or =20 not. In fact I think it makes things like logarithms or the number i =20 more beautiful and even poetic in the fact that new meanings were =20 found for them long after they were invented. I often wish he had =20 lived a few more decades and could have seen the digital computer, =20 because I wonder what he would have made of the work Turing/Godel/=20 Church et. al. were doing after seeing them given the meaning that =20 calculating machines were able to make out of them. I think he would =20 have thought it was a wonderful thing. And at the same time, I think, maybe, he might argue that some of the =20= awe that everybody who grasps things like incompleteness, transfinite =20= numbers, and decideability problems (which, interestingly, he had no =20 problem with. He thought that the halting problem was real and =20 incorporated some of Turings work on algorithms into his thoughts on =20 what mathematical meaning is) COULD be just the sort of giddiness one =20= feels as a result of semantic paradoxes that come about through the =20 syntactic manipulation that goes on in mathematics. ALthough clearly =20 that's not the end of it, because the same thing happens like I said =20 for a proof of the power rule, or an elegant proof of the pythagorean =20= theorem, which both have a clear semantic meaning even in =20 wittgenstein's sense of mathematical meaning. More importantly, while =20= I'm not at all sure he's right, I think it is an interesting challenge =20= to Set Theory to show that an infinite set should be analyzed as a =20 rule for the unlimited extension of a series, much the way that a =20 calculation that presents an irrational number is a rule about how to =20= extend of the number to N+1 places, rather than an actual infinite =20 thing-in-itself. I'd be very curious if you knew of anything that =20 takes up that notion, because it's always struck me as very compelling =20= although philosophers I respect and who understand this stuff better =20 than me (and who are otherwise sympathetic to Wittgenstein's view of =20 mathematics, like Putnam and Fine) have remarked in passing that they =20= think he was wrong about how he analyzed the diagonal proof. What matters to me though, particularly in the realm of how all of =20 this applies to poetry, is that I still think that semantic paradox is =20= a useful tool of poetry that is very good at pointing to things that =20 might otherwise not be able to be expressed by other more normal =20 means. I think, for example, that the liar paradox is an interesting =20 way to approach the notion of divinity, something I used in a poem I'm =20= very proud of that tries to express something about my experience of =20 the divine (published here if you're curious: = http://www.blazevox.org/061-jfq.pdf)=20 . And I think that's useful in poetry, because I can't tell you what =20 it feels like to experience the divine in the same way that I can tell =20= you that cutting my finger while chopping onions is painful. But I can =20= try to create that feeling through poetry, and by talking in that sort =20= of way, using that kind of approach where meaning is both looser and =20 also more pointed, I think poetry can express the otherwise =20 inexpressable, and that too is a kind of magic. Finally, because I think you might enjoy it as it relates to =20 Wittgenstein's appreciation for Turing, I give you this remark from =20 the Remarks on the Foundations of Mathematics: "What harm is done e.g. by saying that God knows all irrational =20 numbers? Or: that they are already there, even though we only know =20 certain of them? Why are these pictures not harmless? For one thing, they hide certain problems. Suppose that people go on and on calculating the expansion of =CF=80. So = =20 God, who knows everything, knows whether they will have reached =20 =E2=80=98777=E2=80=99 by the end of the world. But can his omniscience = decide =20 whether they would have reached it after the end of the world? It =20 cannot. I want to say: Even God can determine something mathematical =20 only by mathematics. Even for him the mere rule of expansion cannot =20 decide anything that it does not decide for us. We might put it like this: if the rule for the expansion has been =20 given us, a calculation can tell us that there is a =E2=80=982=E2=80=99 = at the =20 fifth place. Could God have known this, without the calculation, =20 purely from the rule of expansion? I want to say: No." Cheers and thanks again for the opportunity to flex these particular =20 muscles. They do get rusty reading law books these days... -Jason On Aug 3, 2010, at 12:30 AM, Jim Andrews wrote: > somebody else would have invented truth tables if he hadn't. they're =20= > like shopping carts. > > would somebody else have done godel's strikingly original work? =20 > probably. eventually. but probably it would have taken quite a while. > > i am attempting to download "Cora Diamond [Ed.] - Wittgenstein's =20 > Lectures on the Foundations of Mathematics, 1939". meanwhile, i've =20 > perused http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/wittgenstein-mathematics =20 > and the links you provided, jason. > > wittgenstein's philosophy of mathematics is doomed to the obscurity =20= > suffered by other similarly finitistic approaches. he objects to set =20= > theory on philosophical grounds. which is fine but that sort of =20 > objection is not nearly as important as showing real contradictions =20= > in the theory. he didn't manage to do that. > > the 'crisis of the foundations of mathematics' in the nineteenth =20 > century that motivated the development of set theory, including =20 > cantor's work on infinite sets, included an atmosphere in which =20 > there was great distrust about assumptions of the actually infinite. =20= > cantor's work was widely regarded as fatally flawed for its =20 > assumption of the existence of the actually infinite. the famous =20 > antagonisms of kronecker and poincare against cantor, and cantor's =20 > relegation to the margins of academia. and his ongoing battles with =20= > mental problems. and cantor's own exacerbation of his problems by =20 > his pronouncement that the existence of his transfinite numbers was =20= > justified in the mind of god. > > but cantor and others were sufficiently careful in their dealings =20 > with the actually infinite that it has not, in fact, blown up in =20 > their faces. every undergraduate honours math student does a course =20= > in 'real analysis' that develops the real number system from the =20 > ground up using set theory and cantor's work (among many others). > > finitistic approaches, very famously, generally have difficulty =20 > proving many of the most useful results of mathematics. the results =20= > that any theory simply has to be able to produce or no one uses the =20= > theory, regardless of its philosophical nobility. > > by the way, jason, as an aside, when i studied cantor's work as an =20 > undergrad, well, it really blew me away as beautiful and profound. i =20= > understood why, going back to the time of pythagoras, mathematics =20 > has been associated with 'divine knowledge'. i mean, in the case of =20= > cantor's work, we learn things actually worth knowing about the =20 > infinite. "no one shall expel us from the paradise that cantor has =20 > created." david hilbert said that. and no one has managed it. not =20 > wittgenstein, not brouwer, nobody. cantor isn't the saviour. he was =20= > a 'martyr', of sorts (figuratively). so too with godel and turing. > > ja > http://vispo.com > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 > guidelines & sub/unsub info: = http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 10:27:33 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Sharon Mesmer/David Borchart Subject: Re: Completely Objective Review + My Autogeography In-Reply-To: <4C584E22.4050201@umn.edu> Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Yay! Happy b-day!!!! On Aug 3, 2010, at 1:13 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > HAPPY BIRTHDAY AMY >=20 > amy king wrote: >> Today's my bday (yes, I'm fishing), so if you are in Walt Whitman's = birthplace today, holla backchannel and I'll get you in the door... >>=20 >> For those not in attendance, a completely objective review -- = http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-thin= gs.html >>=20 >>=20 >> And an Autogeography -- = http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Chronic/amy-king.html >>=20 >> Kiss, >>=20 >> Amy >>=20 >>=20 >> ******** >> Poetry, Publishing, Women & the Internet + = http://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/your-own-revolution-poetry-publish= ing-the-internet/=20 >>=20 >> Poets for Living Waters >> + http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/ ******** >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> =20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check = guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> =20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check = guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 11:22:20 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: CA Conrad Subject: Re: MUGGED into poetry... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Murat, thanks for the tip, I'm going to watch that film! Conrad -- PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 12:18:49 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "i suppose beauty is simply the way one uses a given medium, but my robot=". Rest of header flushed. From: steve russell Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: <674504.7894.qm@web52402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0Ai suppose beauty is simply the way one uses a given medium, but my robot= will =0Aone day Prove that beauty exist. =0A=0Abeauty will be quantified.= =0AI won't be satisfied by anything less. =0A=0AForget Turing.=0AMy robot w= ill one day rule ...=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFr= om: steve russell =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.E= DU=0ASent: Mon, August 2, 2010 5:12:05 PM=0ASubject: Re: "The Decay of Spir= ituality in Poetry"=0A=0AInteresting: Write a beauty proof, a proof that pr= oves the existence of, ugh, =0Abeauty. I believe that such a thing exist, a= nd perhaps Godel's work is more =0Abeautiful than anything Witt wrote, but = still, when one begins to talk =0Aaesthetics, one is on fuzzy, very fuzzy g= round. Of course, I know almost nothing =0A=0Aas far as mathmatical logic i= s concerned. & I suffer from severe- bad- =0Aphilosophy class PTSD, know wh= at I'm saying? =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___________________________= _____=0AFrom: Jim Andrews =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.ED= U=0ASent: Fri, July 30, 2010 2:50:54 PM=0ASubject: Re: "The Decay of Spirit= uality in Poetry"=0A=0A"Wittgenstein never accepted G=F6del's result; he sa= id in The Foundations of=0AMathematics, posthumously published, that his ta= sk is not to discuss G=F6del,=0Abut rather to bypass G=F6del. He also calle= d G=F6del's results the tricks of a=0Alogical conjurer, logical artifices."= =0Afrom http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/goldstein05/goldstein05_index.html= =0A=0Amy feeling is that there was no room for godel's work in wittgenstein= 's world =0Aview. he needed to not discuss godel but to bypass him.=0A=0Awi= ttgenstein's work in mathematical logic is not even remotely as important a= s =0Athat of godel. and godel's work is beautiful in a way that challenges = any poet =0Awriting pretty conjectures and enigmatic pronouncements. it's b= eautiful and it's =0A=0Atrue. it's expressed in proofs that have stood the = test of time. it uses the =0Aequally beautiful work of georg cantor, uses h= is diagonal argument (which was =0Aalso used later by turing). it's the mos= t significant work of mathematical logic =0A=0Aof the twentieth century. it= eclipses the work of any poet on mathematical =0Alogic. it redefines the p= oetry and philosophy of mathematical logic.=0A=0Ai think wittgenstein thoug= ht this sort of genuinely remarkable work in meta =0Amathematics was simply= impossible, that it was 'unsayable', and that his own =0Asort of poetry wa= s as good as it got.=0A=0Agodel shows us what really excellent work in math= ematical logic is.=0A=0Aja=0Ahttp://vispo.com =0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guid= elines & =0Asub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated = & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & =0Asub/unsub info: http://e= pc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 16:00:57 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Maria Damon Subject: Book Announcement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Deep Language, by Alan Sondheim, Salt Publishing, 2010 Salt Publishing has just brought out my Deep Language; the URL is http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/9781844718030.htm Please consider ordering this; it's inexpensive, and helps support Salt. If you don't want the book, please check out the publisher's other listings - Salt is one of the few independent companies who are not publish-on-demand; their books are found in bookstores, there are review copies, and so forth. They really need your support; they have a number of wonderful writers, and their paperbacks are high quality. Salt is at http://www.saltpublishing.com/ and they are very cool. Deep Language, Alan Sondheim EAN13: 9781844718030 ISBN: 9781844718030 Author: Alan Sondheim Title: Deep Language Series: Salt Modern Poets Audience: General/trade Publisher: Salt Publishing Pub date: 30-Jul-10 Extent: 260pp Height: 246 mm Width: 189 mm Thickness: 15 mm Weight: 390 gms Supplier: Gardners Books Supplier: Ingram Book Group Supplier: Inbooks (James Bennett) Availability: NP Price: GBP 12.99 Price: USD 16.95 Rights: World PAPERBACK / SOFTBACK 20% off at the UK Bookstore! 12.99 10.39 20% off at the US Bookstore! $16.95 $13.56 Short description/annotation: A series of short texts or poems that revel in structured and unstructured language, with all the gaps and excitement that happens when language is stressed to the limit. Main description: In Sondheim.s Deep Language, writing detours through digital and other media, returning with new forms and genres, new ways of thinking philosophy, the body, religion, and everything else. This is a series of poems that revel in structured and unstructured language, with all the gaps and excitement that happens when language is stressed to the limit. These pieces cohere, interrelate, interpenetrate; they develop the concept of deep language in any number of fascinating ways, ranging from intuitive writing to the use of scripts, code, and programming to elucidate hidden meanings . where none may have existed before. Excerpt from book: bunnies the bunnies made strange calls, odd calls, gruntings, not the thumpings but the gruntings - ..I say. .there is a chair.. . Wittgenstein in translation . right over the other lupus. ears, just like that! .->:anyway the rabbits did this five or six times in a row and it seemed fairlyclear they were playing and right in front of us in the middle of the night. Honestly, you should have seen them! I never saw such a thing! I never knew rabbits could do such a thing! .Do not try to analyse your own inner experience.. - Wittgenstein in translation -:i pucker my lips constantly in the absence of the shakuhachi. i know its murmuring burbling abbling brook. now i.m at a loss, having transformed bAbbling into something else entirely . in any case, when i die, these three instruments will huddle in a maddening corner, bubbling with mournful murmuring cries . .Not it.s looking like him.. - Wittgenstein in translation . ]]] here is a space. the one rabbit runs straight at the other and the other rabbit jumps vertically at the very last moment over the first rabbit and landf in the same spot.that.s .lands.. <..:: Write through my the bunnies made strange calls, odd calls, gruntings, not the thumpings but the gruntings . ..I say. .there is a chair.. - Wittgenstein in translation . right over the other lupus. ears, just like that! .->! Unpublished endorsement: Alan Sondheim writes. In fear of death . literal fear, real fear, symbolic fear . he uses anything and everything at his disposal to make and unmake himself and all of us as statements, words, part-words, characters. Alan Sondheim is one of the precious few who joyfully . and in abject misery . risks these terrors of writing for us, for our pleasure and our undoing. What happens? Language disposes of us. As if that were not all that is required of any writer, Alan Sondheim is also the poet, the artist, the maker who has most profoundly immersed himself and his work in the life-changing code-forms . of networked computation . that have the world and its .genesis redux. in their grip. John Cayley Unpublished endorsement: Pioneer of experimental sensibility in multiple performance media Alan Sondheim tangles us up in these hypnotically repetitive, abject, slyly humorous and childishly gleeful, philosophically, aesthetically, theoretically and psychologically dense and insightful poems that are also essays, diasporic riffs and incantations, true confessions, Platonic dialogues, shtick, tantrums, aphorisms and manifesti. And that.s just the first 5 pieces! Maria Damon Biographical note: Alan Sondheim was born in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania; he lives with his partner, Azure Carter, in Brooklyn NY. He holds a B.A. and M.A. from Brown University in English. A new-media artist, writer, and theorist, he has exhibited, performed and lectured widely. Sondheim's writings include the anthology Being on Line: Net Subjectivity (Lusitania, 1996), Disorders of the Real (Station Hill, 1988), .echo (alt-X digital arts, 2001), Vel (Blazevox 2004-5), Sophia (Writers Forum, 2004), Orders of the Real (Writers Forum, 2005), The Accidental Artist (Fort/Da), Azure/Nature/Digital (Blue Lion, 2009), and The Wayward (Salt, 2004) as well as numerous chapbooks, ebooks, and articles. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 11:23:37 -1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jonathan Morse Subject: Of possible interest to poetry publishers Comments: To: Janet Holmes , Susan Schultz , silliman@gmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- and don't overlook the interesting comments. http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010/08/04/elk These days, by the way, the Chronicle of Higher Education gets less interesting with every issue, while Inside Higher Ed gets more. The Chronicle is expensive; Inside Higher Ed is free. There's more to the economics of publishing than I understand. Jonathan Morse ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 19:37:33 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) On Aug 1, 2010, at 8:22 AM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > > > those things that can't be talked about or empirically investigated > are > themselves worthless and nonexistent. which is not the case. he just > thought > LANGUAGE about those things was nonsensical: don't you think this > assertions > itself is somewhat strange? What is exactly the difference between > "worthless, nonexistent and nonsensical" unless the word > "nonsensical" is > being used here as a technical term used by Logical Positivists. In > other > words, how much of a real difference is that outside atmospherics? Well, it's not used in the sense of the positivists, because the positivists adopted their use of the term from him rather than the other way around. He was never a positivist. His use of "sense" and it's various associated terms (actually in german his use of Sinn, unSinnig, and Sinnloss, sorry my german is worse than my french, which is terrible) is technical and derives from his reading of Frege. Frege's semantic theory asserts that there are two ways that a sentence or a word has meaning, it's sense, and it's reference. Usually this is talked about in terms of proper names, but Frege and Wittgenstein took it further, in that the reference of a proper name is the object that it attaches to like a label or a name tag. The object to which the word refers. Or the referential meaning of "Jason F Quackenbush" is me, the physical human being that has that name. Frege argued that there are terms that have no reference but that do have a sense. Take for example the name "Hamlet." There never was a person with that name, he's a fictional character. And yet, particularly within the context of the play, Hamlet definitely has a meaning and it's the same meaning whether the actual physical person playing Hamlet is Richard Burbage or Mel Gibson. (Granted you could argue that different actors portrayals of Hamlet have slightly different meanings since the character can be changed a bit, but I would argue that the possibilities of portrayal are reasonably finite and are all part of the meaning of the word). Anyway, That meaning is the "sense" of the word "Hamlet" which exists separate from. So when Wittgenstein says that a term like "Absolute Goodness" is nonsense, he means it doesn't have a sense in the Fregean sense of the term. That is, there are no criteria by which to determine the meaning of the word. The mysticism of this point of view is that never the less he recognizes that using a term like "Absolute Goodness" is trying to get at SOMETHING, and whatever that something is it seems to have some relation to more workaday uses of the word Good. The point in calling it nonsense is something like Heidegger's admonition to always pay attention to the phenomena first. That is, if you want to know what "good" means or any of the other concepts that get built up into grand metaphysical theories, don't let yourself drift away into the philosophical ether where there's nothing to ground the meaning of the words you're using the way that life as it is lived by people in communities grounds the meaning of the language we use to communicate. It's not nonsense in the sense that there's no there there, but nonsense in the sense that if you start talking that way, the way philosophers do, you're completely missing the point. > "for that second argument to work you'd have to accept something > like David > Lewis's resolution to the problem of universals which relies on set > theory > and modal realism, which I just don't buy. Again, I'll appeal to > wittgenstein's remark that "when you are learning spelling you also > learn > how to spell the word "spelling" but no one calls this a second order > spelling." or to put it another way, to quote dennett's sarcastic > remark > about a wittgensteinian ordinary language philosopher "if it can't be > expressed in first order predicate logic, it's probably incorrect and > meaningless." > > I think we misunderstand each other here. What I mean is that any > given set > (language) can be broken down (Benjamin's view). If it can be broken > down, > it can be "escaped" and talked about or pointed to. Perhaps we > should talk > more about this process of pointing of "pointing" which both > Wittgenstein > and Heiddeger talk about. I think they are striving towards a > similar thing. Ah, i see what you mean. I think you're right. I think maybe the distinction then is that W. conceived of language, or more properly meaning, as not a set, in the sense of a collection of things that form a totality, but rather a series of nodes that are connected to one another. I think he'd very much say that bits and pieces of it can be talked about in isolation, and in fact that's what his "language game" thought experiments were trying to do, to get at bits and pieces of language in isolation to see how they worked. The only thing I think he or I would have quibbled is that he would have rejected this as something second order, and would have said it's just another language game connected to all the other ones, and this is just a way of talking about language, but it's not anything like a metalanguage. > "I just really disagree with the notion that Wittgenstein held to > anything > like the idea that language was absolute and final in any way. > Rather he > thought it was limited, amorphous, changeable, and in no way capable > of > covering the wider extent of human life, which for him was a > precondition > for language that meaning requires. hence the comment "if a lion > could talk > we would not understand him." > > Well, he may believe all of that; but when he relegates the language > of a > "the wider extent of human life" to the category" to being > "nonsensical," he > is creating a hierarchy of values (truths/and nonsensense, both > "important?") which I can not quite accept or live with. I think that's probably a fair criticism. The only defense I'll offer is that I don't think he was unaware that that's what he SEEMED to be saying, and he often talked about how much he admired saints and religious mystics who had devoted their lives to nonsense, and often qualified his talk of nonsense by saying that even though its nonsense he'd never dare try to dissuade people from talking about it. Rather he just wanted his ideas to be a kind of therapy to allow people who are persuaded by a certain kind of nonsense, that is the kind of nonsense popular among the philosophically inclined, to stop tormenting themselves with it because it never seems to get anywhere and the more you think about it the harder it is to really believe anything. And there he was speaking from experience. Bertrand Russell reports in his diaries and letters that Wittgenstein would often burst into his rooms at cambridge in the wee hours of the night talking about killing himself because he couldn't stop thinking about some puzzle or another and every time he felt like he'd got to an answer, a bunch of new objections would spring into being. Which is to say, I think he excludes from the negative value judgment that he makes about philosophers nonsense, the kind of thing that I think could be fairly called religious nonsense and poetic nonsense which themselves have value (and therefore a kind of meaning) in their use as an important part of human life even if they don't have the kind of meaning that a sentence like "I'm wearing tennis shoes right now" has. > "And again, I'll return to probably the poorest understood aspect of > wittgenstein's view of language which is that the things that can > not be > said can in fact be shown. they can be demonstrated. they can be > pointed at > indexically. what they can't be is explained, described, discussed, or > whatever." > > Why not? We discuss these things all the time. What are we doing now? well for example. I can tell you how i came to experience a connection to the divine. I can describe the physical and emotional feelings that I had as a part of that experience, and I can suggest to you activities that might help you recreate that experience myself. What I can't do is tell you if God is real or imaginary, if it is male or female. I can't tell you if it is a person that is intelligent or a mindless force of nature. All of the sentences there would fail because of the word being predicated, God, doesn't have a sense in the Fregean sense. Rather, for me at least, it points to my experience of the divine and that's the only way that I can talk about it in a way that is meaningful. Compounding the problem is the fact that there are other people who use the same word to mean the same thing I do, but also in there experience is something that allows them to make those kinds of statements. This is a fundamental disconnect that makes it impossible for either of us to tell if we're using the word correctly and there's no objective empirical object for us to go and take a look at to figure out which one of us has the meaning right. So in a sense, it's possible to talk about talking about those things, which is what we're doing now, while it's very difficult, if not impossible, to talk about them directly. And talking about talking about them, just like as I suggested to Jim, using semantic paradox and metaphor and maybe musical harmony, are ways to point at them, to give them a referential meaning even though they don't have a sense. > "If i want you to understand a religious experience, for example, i > might > give you a set of instructions that might allow you to recreate the > experience for yourself, but if i start trying to describe it, then > I begin > to start talking in a way that isn't strictly meaningful in the way > that > other propositions are." > > Here one can see how the phrase "in a way that isn't strictly > meaningful in > the way that other propositions are" is giving to everything which > can be > expressed in propositions over over things. As I said in my previous > post, > my disagreement with Wittgenstein is partly rhetorical, the > hierartchical > value system it creates and leads many others to stup and very > restrictive > conclusions or practices. > Right but take that in the context of the whole corpus of what's being said. Wittgenstein allowed for empirical truth, which is the vast bulk of what propositions deal with, and more or less dismissed it as needing any attention because it's obvious and easy. Take a look at my feet, you'll see whether the proposition "I'm wearing tennis shoes" is true or false. He distinguished another kind of truth, grammatical truth, as being true of propositions that take as their object not empirical facts but facts about how language is used and works. So for example, "That apple is red" is true if in the language I'm speaking red refers to the color of certain kinds of apples and if the apple I'm pointing at (that being an indexical expression) is the color of those kinds of apples. I can take this a step farther and say "some apples are red" and I'm no longer really saying much that's empirical so much as I'm saying something about how we talk about apples in the English language. The proposition is true not because apples are a certain color, although there's an element of this that's reflected in the grammar, but if when people are talking about apples, they sometimes use the word red to talk about their color. Grammatical truth is a lot harder to get at and comprehend tho, than empirical truth is, and most of what he wrote in his later period was about how grammatical truth works for certain slippery word that are the subjects of philosophical enquiry like epistemology and metaphysics. For example if you agree to look after my dog while I'm on vacation, I can say "that's good of you to do that for me." And the way to tell if that's true or not is not so much empirical inquiry, but grammatical inquiry into whether this is the sort of situation where the word good expresses something. Partly this is a rejection of a metaphysical conception of goodness as some eternal constant concept that the word "good" refers to. But it's also because we can imagine a situation where it would not be grammatical, like say I'm the Emperor and you are one of my subjects so that the situation is really that you are obliged to look after my dog if I tell you too and there is maybe even a cultural expectation that you should be honored to be able to do me a solid. In that case, "That's good of you" might mean something slightly different, in that it's merely polite because that's what one says to someone who takes care of something for you and it would be perceived as rude not to say it. both are meaningful statements that mean different things and are true only under specific circumstances that are defined by how language is used by the people using it. > Take for instance, Normal Malcolm argument about dreaming, that > dreaming can > be reduced to a reporting of dreaming since, for convoluted reasons he > explains in his book, nobody can prove that his/her dreaming > occurred during > sleep. The ridiculous argument he follows there is very similar to > what you > say in " "If i want you to understand a religious experience, for > example, i > might give you a set of instructions that might allow you to > recreate the > experience for yourself, but if i start trying to describe it, then > I begin > to start talking in a way that isn't strictly meaningful in the way > that > other propositions are." well, that's Malcolm, and he wasn't Wittgenstein's best exegete. That someone dreamed something isn't, or at least wasn't at the time and is barely so now, a matter that can be empirically investigated. But my take on dreaming, which is I think what Wittgenstein had in mind, is that it is like it is with other kinds of expressions of internal sensations, the statement IS the evidence. If I tell someone a dream I had while I was asleep. We know what dreams are, we all have them, and we know what the report of the dream is. And we can doubt that someone is being truthful in a dream report, and suppose that they are telling us a lie for some reason (like perhaps they want to convince us they had a precognitive experience of some kind), but that doubt requires some grounds too. And so the entirety of the situation comes into play. Why would you be inclined to doubt that I really had the experience that I had? Is there some benefit to me lying? Does it seem doubtful that I was asleep at the time I supposedly had the dream? Am I the kind of person who often makes things up about things to get stuff? Maybe the answer is you just don't know whether the statement is true or not, but that's not the same thing as saying it isn't meaningful. Religious experiences are different because 1.) not everybody acknowledges that they have them 2.) they come in a wide number of varieties and descriptions that tend to be in line with prevailing cultural religious practices (by that I mean you rarely if ever hear about a shinto priest seeing an apparition of the blessed virgin) and 3.) sometimes the experience is so profound that it's difficult to do much more than talk about physical and emotional sensations, but those are descriptions of how the experience made me feel, they aren't a description of what it was that made me feel that way, of what the entity was that i encountered or whether it was an entity at all. That's the part that I say can't be described. Clearly there's something to it. Clearly it's an experience of a kind that billions of people have experienced, but it's not open to either a grammatical or empirical investigation in the same way other things are, which is why it's very hard to say anything about God that has a sense. But it can be pointed to, by my attitude and behavior, by my description of how I felt in the religious encounter, by poetry and music that recreates the feelings and gives it meaning of another kind that has nothing to do with the meanings of the words or music in itself but rather in the totality of how it reveals the experience of the divine for others. > "Which, again, is why "philosophy ought to be written only as a form > of > poetry." Because poetic language is capable of showing in a way that > ordinary language is not." > > Why not say then poetry is as much capable of philosophy as symbolic > logic? > It is not nonsensical truth, etc., etc. etc. well, again it depends on what you think philosophy ought to be doing. Perloff makes a good case that it is as much capable of philosophy as symbolic logic. I tend to disagree not so much because I think poetry is incapable of approaching the objects of philosophy, but largely because I think philosophy does a generally pretty crappy job of approaching its own objects and I'd rather not lower poetry to its level. > "As for the Arcades project, it sounds really interesting, but it also > doesn't sound like the same use of the word "true" as one uses in > talking > about propositions and the truth functions of logic and reasoning. > > That's what I mean. Instinctively, you are assigning -and I believe > restricting- the "truth" value to one mode of expression and not the > others. > The Arcades Project talks about social, political, ethical, > philosophical, > aesthetic, moral issues in a synthesized language. That is its > originality. > Those hierarchies of truth -creating a hierarchy of validities and > subtle > taboos (like "weird mysticism or Platonism") are eliminated. Oh not at all though. I think there is a lot of truth out there in things other than logic and reasoning, and most of it is much more important than whether or not socrates really was a man or if all swans are in fact white. but "truth value" as i use it is a technical term that has to do specifically with propositions that can be symbolized and reasoned about with various rules of inference. And the sorts of sentences and expressions that have those other kinds of truth are not about the kinds of things that propositions can talk about, which are empirical and grammatical facts and whether or not they obtain. > I agree with you, Jason. Our disagreements on Wittgenstein are less > than > they appear. I am more focused on what Witggenstein has become to mean > -which basically is a very restrictive and even damaging, > particularly in > poetry)- after himself. Yeah. The poor guy. I sometimes feel very alone in my reading of him. Even though I know I'm right and that everybody else from Stanley Cavell and Cora Diamond back to Rudolph Carnap completely misunderstood what he was up to, whenever I talk to philosophically inclined folks about him I always feel like I'm fighting an uphill battle against all kinds of preconceived notions. Not to say that that's the case here, so much. :) I sometimes think maybe a lot of people just let Saul Kripke Richard Rorty and Hilary Putnam do their reading for them without recognizing that all of them are using Wittgenstein's ideas to their own ends, which are not the aims Wittgenstein had at all. > Once again, great conversation. Indeed, thanks so much for the engaging thoughts. -Jason > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:59:15 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: susan maurer Subject: Re: Completely Objective Review + My Autogeography In-Reply-To: <4C584E22.4050201@umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable happy birthday. susan maurer =20 > Date: Tue=2C 3 Aug 2010 12:13:06 -0500 > From: damon001@UMN.EDU > Subject: Re: Completely Objective Review + My Autogeography > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 > HAPPY BIRTHDAY AMY >=20 > amy king wrote: > > Today's my bday (yes=2C I'm fishing)=2C so if you are in Walt Whitman's= birthplace=20 > > today=2C holla backchannel and I'll get you in the door... > > > > For those not in attendance=2C a completely objective review=20 > > -- http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-thes= e-things.html > > > > > > And an Autogeography -- http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Chronic/amy-king.ht= ml > > > > Kiss=2C > > > > Amy > > > > > >=20 > > ******** > > Poetry=2C Publishing=2C Women & the Internet=20 > > + http://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/your-own-revolution-poetry-pu= blishing-the-internet/=20 > > > > > > Poets for Living Waters > > + http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/=20 > > ******** > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidel= ines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 20:33:33 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Re: Completely Objective Review + My Autogeography In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks very much! Cheers, Amy ******** Poetry, Publishing, Women & the Internet + http://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/your-own-revolution-poetry-publishing-the-internet/ Poets for Living Waters + http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/ ******** ----- Original Message ---- From: susan maurer To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Wed, August 4, 2010 2:59:15 PM Subject: Re: Completely Objective Review + My Autogeography happy birthday. susan maurer > Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 12:13:06 -0500 > From: damon001@UMN.EDU > Subject: Re: Completely Objective Review + My Autogeography > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > HAPPY BIRTHDAY AMY > > amy king wrote: > > Today's my bday (yes, I'm fishing), so if you are in Walt Whitman's >birthplace > > > today, holla backchannel and I'll get you in the door... > > > > For those not in attendance, a completely objective review > > -- >http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-things.html > > > > > > > And an Autogeography -- http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Chronic/amy-king.html > > > > Kiss, > > > > Amy > > > > > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 14:59:03 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: Aug 6: Dear Fisherman in Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DEAR FISHERMAN a solo exhibit by Rachel Slotnick with writing and music Friday, August 6th 7pm - midnight opening reception at Happy Dog Gallery 1542 N Milwaukee Ave, Floor 2 Chicago, Illinois http://www.happydoggallery.tumblr.com 7:30pm Group Reading:=20 Abra Aducci Mike Balatico Adam Bienvenue Daniel Godston Jennifer Goldstick Lisa Janssen Jennifer Karmin Julie Karnes Gregory Kiewiet Heather McShane Heather Palmer John Rich Followed by music selections=20 from DJ The Single Helix ABRA ADDUCCI is currently pursuing her MFA in writing at the School of the = Art Institute of Chicago. MIKE BALATICO is from Tenessee. DANIEL GODSTON teaches and lives in Chicago. His writings have appeared in = Chase Park, After Hours, BlazeVOX, Versal, Beard of Bees, Drunken Boat, 580= Split, Kyoto Journal, Eratica, The Smoking Poet, Horse Less Review, Moria,= Apparatus Magazine, EOAGH, Requited Journal, Sentinel Poetry, and other pr= int publications and online journals. His poem =E2=80=9CMask to Skin to Blo= od to Heart to Bone and Back=E2=80=9D was nominated by the editors of 580 S= plit for the Pushcart Prize. He also composes and performs music, and he wo= rks with the Borderbend Arts Collective to organize the annual Chicago Call= ing Arts Festival. JENNIFER GOLDSTICK likes storytelling. This includes, but is not limited to= : writing, reading, drawing, diagramming and telling stories. As a graduate= of Washington University in St. Louis=E2=80=99s Visual Communication progr= am, she generally focuses on visual storytelling, but is constantly seeking= new ways to convey any kind of emotional truth. Jennifer=E2=80=99s mini-co= mic =E2=80=9CRoots of a Tragedy,=E2=80=9D a narrative which explores a seri= es of student deaths in her hometown, is being self-published and will hit = small, alternative comic bookstore shelves within the coming months. Her dr= awings and comics have been published in Spires Intercollegiate Arts & Lite= rary Magazine and Key Magazine in Chicago.=20 LISA JANSSEN is a writer and archivist. Her work has appeared most recently= in WSQ =E2=80=93 Women's Studies Quarterly, MAKE, and the chapbook Riffing= on Bird and Other Sad Songs (dusi/e-chap kollektiv). She currently co-edit= s the literary journal MoonLit. JENNIFER KARMIN has published, performed, exhibited, taught, and experiment= ed with language across the U.S., Japan, and Kenya. She is the author of th= e text-sound epic Aaaaaaaaaaalice (Flim Forum Press, 2010) and the chapbook= Evacuated: Disembodying Katrina (Dusie Kollektiv, 2009). Walking Poem, a c= ollaborative street project, is featured online at How2. In Chicago, Jennif= er teaches creative writing to immigrants at Truman College and works as a = Poet-in-Residence for the public schools. http://aaaaaaaaaaalice.blogspot.= com JULIE KARNES received her MFA from the School of the Art Institute of Chica= go in 2009. Her work won an honorable mention in The Atlantic's 2009 Studen= t Writing Contest. She is currently working on a collection of short storie= s.=20 GREGORY KIEWIET's book of poetry, In the Company of Words, was published in= 2007 by Past Tents Press. Other work has appeared in The Columbia Poetry R= eview, Marks: An On-line Journal of the Arts, Dispatch Detroit, Box, Woodwa= rd Magazine, Graffiti Rag, and others. He received an M. A. in English (Cr= eative Writing) from Wayne State University (Detroit, MI) in 2001 and is co= mpleting an MFA in Writing at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago. G= reg teaches at Wright College.=20 HEATHER MCSHANE's writings can be found at the2ndhand, fictionatwork, The G= reen Lantern Press blog, Pistil magazine, and Chicago Public Radio=E2=80=99= s Vocalo. HEATHER PALMER holds a Masters of Fine Arts in Writing from the School of t= he Art Institute of Chicago and has current or forthcoming work in Willows = Wept Review, Lamination Colony, Radioactive Moat, Omphalos 8, elimae, Story= glossia, Everyday Genius, Spork Magazine and more. Her book works include C= harlie=E2=80=99s Train (the2ndhand) and the forthcoming novel Complements: = of Us (Spork Press). She writes and works in Chicago, but hails from Pennsy= lvania. http://fictionsandthelike.blogspot.com ARMANDO PEREZ aka DJ THE SINGLE HELIX The Single Helix is an experimental/ambient singer-songwriter and DJ curren= tly living in Chicago. Recording songs with a computer, various keyboards, = and a guitar, T.S.H. (Armando Perez) has leaked several mix tapes of art-ro= ck and released an instrumental electronica album called "Journal of an Emo= tional Robot" on the Sonic Octopus imprint. He performs solo, or with a ful= l band. JOHN RICH is a performance artist, writer, and arts administrator. He co-fo= unded the collaborative theater company Attention Deficit Drama (1997-2003)= , and currently performs with Every house has a door. He earned a BFA in p= ainting from Grand Valley State University (1997), and is completing an MFA= in Writing at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago (2010). He serve= d as performance curator for the Urban Institute for Contemporary Arts and = Columbia College Chicago (TICTOC), and has been the company manager for Goa= t Island Performance Group since 2006. He is at work on his first novel and= a collaborative book-length correspondence project. RACHEL SLOTNICK, originally from Los Altos, California, is a painter and wr= iter. She received her MFA from the School of the Art Institute of Chicago= in May 2010. During her time at SAIC, she traveled to Kenya on the Summer= Literary Seminars Tuition Fellowship. She was also a finalist in the Fred= Hillbruner Artist Book Fellowship. Her work is on display at the Joan Fla= sch Artist Book Collection at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago, a= t Caf=C3=A9 Bacci (Chicago, IL), at Horse Works inc (Morton Grove, IL), at = Blue Horse Saddlery (Los Altos, CA), Art & Frames Unlimited (Mountain View,= CA), Studio Trilogy Gallery (San Francisco, CA), The Tack Rack (Lexington,= KY), and in Horses in Art Magazine. http://www.rachelslotnick.com =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 22:24:33 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Completely Objective Review + My Autogeography In-Reply-To: <98782E86-B29C-4F58-9D90-36A73A9ECC05@verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yeah, Happy Bday Amy!!! many more returns of the day, night and the next day and night and the next day and night and the nex da an nigh an th ne d a nig a t n ni i Sharon Mesmer/David Borchart wrote: > Yay! Happy b-day!!!! > > > On Aug 3, 2010, at 1:13 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > > >> HAPPY BIRTHDAY AMY >> >> amy king wrote: >> >>> Today's my bday (yes, I'm fishing), so if you are in Walt Whitman's birthplace today, holla backchannel and I'll get you in the door... >>> >>> For those not in attendance, a completely objective review -- http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-things.html >>> >>> >>> And an Autogeography -- http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Chronic/amy-king.html >>> >>> Kiss, >>> >>> Amy >>> >>> >>> ******** >>> Poetry, Publishing, Women & the Internet + http://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/your-own-revolution-poetry-publishing-the-internet/ >>> >>> Poets for Living Waters >>> + http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/ ******** >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >>> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 00:23:08 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ryan Daley Subject: Fwd: New Narrative In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 "Poetry can never be entertaining." Wow. So sad. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Christophe Casamassima Date: Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 2:36 PM Subject: Re: New Narrative To: POETICS@listserv.buffalo.edu It was not meant to be entertaining. Poetry can never be entertaining. On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 12:40 PM, John Cunningham wrote: > Thank you, Christophe. I enjoyed reading your response even though it didn't > enlighten me one little bit. Still, the humour was entertaining. > John Herbert Cunningham > > -----Original Message----- > From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Christophe Casamassima > Sent: August-03-10 7:12 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: New Narrative > > It's like old narrative, but newer. Eventually it will get old and > become the not so new but not as old as the old new narrative. My God, > a hundred years from now the Library of Congress system will be > inundated by huge strings of genre names. > > Christophe "not as old as I was tomorrow" Casamassima > > On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:55 PM, John Cunningham > wrote: >> I recently heard about this new literary phenomenon called the New >> Narrative. What is this? >> >> John Herbert Cunningham >> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 01:15:55 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: Re: New Narrative MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit make sure those books don't have bedbugs On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 14:44:11 -0400 Emma Bolden writes: > I think I am going to start a movement call Old Narrative. It will > involve putting old books in a blender and seeing what happens. > > How does the New Narrative relate to New Narrativism, I wonder? > > Sent from my iTelephoning Device > > On Aug 3, 2010, at 12:40 PM, John Cunningham > wrote: > > > Thank you, Christophe. I enjoyed reading your response even though > it didn't > > enlighten me one little bit. Still, the humour was entertaining. > > John Herbert Cunningham > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > > Behalf Of Christophe Casamassima > > Sent: August-03-10 7:12 AM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: New Narrative > > > > It's like old narrative, but newer. Eventually it will get old > and > > become the not so new but not as old as the old new narrative. My > God, > > a hundred years from now the Library of Congress system will be > > inundated by huge strings of genre names. > > > > Christophe "not as old as I was tomorrow" Casamassima > > > > On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:55 PM, John Cunningham > > wrote: > >> I recently heard about this new literary phenomenon called the > New > >> Narrative. What is this? > >> > >> John Herbert Cunningham > >> > >> > >> ================================== > >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >> > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 01:15:15 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: Re: New Narrative MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit why not i found the word entertaining lately to have a whole new meaning in the serious content sense On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 14:36:09 -0400 Christophe Casamassima writes: > It was not meant to be entertaining. Poetry can never be > entertaining. > > On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 12:40 PM, John Cunningham > wrote: > > Thank you, Christophe. I enjoyed reading your response even though > it didn't > > enlighten me one little bit. Still, the humour was entertaining. > > John Herbert Cunningham > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > > Behalf Of Christophe Casamassima > > Sent: August-03-10 7:12 AM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: New Narrative > > > > It's like old narrative, but newer. Eventually it will get old > and > > become the not so new but not as old as the old new narrative. My > God, > > a hundred years from now the Library of Congress system will be > > inundated by huge strings of genre names. > > > > Christophe "not as old as I was tomorrow" Casamassima > > > > On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:55 PM, John Cunningham > > wrote: > >> I recently heard about this new literary phenomenon called the > New > >> Narrative. What is this? > >> > >> John Herbert Cunningham > >> > >> > >> ================================== > >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >> > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 12:23:57 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: Thank You for Making Boog 19 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To revise my very first post sent to poetics 11 years ago today: Hello to all from David Kirschenbaum, editor of Boog City. 19 years ago today, we published the first two Boog chapbooks in =20 Albany, New York, and it's been a fun ride. To all out there who =20 crossed my path along the way; influenced me/the press (one thing?); =20 contributed work to various publications; performed at the many =20 different events; collated, stapled and distributed; and opened their =20= homes to me as though I were kin, thanks. Since 1991, each year new works have been published that somewhere say =20= Boog on 'em. For that, I thank you all. Special shout-outs to: Katie Yates-for her advice and getting me to Naropa; d.a levy-spirit guide; Lawrence Ferlinghetti-for showing the way; Ed Sanders-for his words of encouragement, constant feedback, and =20 contributions; Lee Ann Brown-for her kindness and always giving me work at the asking; Douglas Brinkley-for introducing me to Lou Reed and Naropa; Jeffrey and Dorian Bergen, co-owners of ACA Galleries, who've provided =20= their space, food, and beverages on the house so our levy lives series =20= could celebrate over 100 small presses from across the U.S. and =20 Canada. (We begin season 8 in September.); Rachel Aydt- Boog's first author, and one of the best poets-and =20 friends-around; Rod Sperry- former cofounder, the most passionate co-editor a press =20 could've wanted; Brenda Iijima-former art editor and kosher poems collaborator, and =20 warm and lengthy conversationalist; Nathaniel Siegel-selfless beyond selfless, kind beyond kind; Bob Holman and the Bowery Poetry Club and E. Tracy Grinnell and Litmus =20= Press/Aufgabe, longterm advertisers and supports, without whom Boog =20 City would not have been able to spread the words on and by so many =20 talented writers, musicians, and artists; My folks-for the use of their Jeep each issue distribution day and life; The Sidewalk Caf=E9-home for so many Boog music events. Thanks Lach and =20= Ben Krieger. Jill Stengel-late night poetry (and life) conscience instant messenger; Sean Cole-constant collaborator and acceptor of writing assignments; Jesse Schoen-graphic designer to the stars; Jim Behrle-king of distribution and unfiltered feedback; Joanna Fuhrman-two-time poetry editor who isn't shy with the truth; Jonathan Berger-oft times distributor, longest tenured editor, our =20 music editor, de facto managing editor, lieutenant, and friend; and Ian Wilder-for taking me to my first poetry reading and editing =20 everything I've written for the past 23 years, and being my. Thanks and Be Good, David -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W. 28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://welcometoboogcity.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) To subscribe free to The December Podcast: = http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=3D3431698= 80 For music from Gilmore boys: http://www.myspace.com/gilmoreboysmusic =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 15:54:17 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Re: Completely Objective Review + My Autogeography In-Reply-To: <4C5A2EF1.2010803@umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sweet! The day that keeps on giving... Thanks, y'all! x, Amy ******** Poetry, Publishing, Women & the Internet + http://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/your-own-revolution-poetry-publishing-the-internet/ Poets for Living Waters + http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/ ******** ----- Original Message ---- From: Maria Damon To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Wed, August 4, 2010 11:24:33 PM Subject: Re: Completely Objective Review + My Autogeography Yeah, Happy Bday Amy!!! many more returns of the day, night and the next day and night and the next day and night and the nex da an nigh an th ne d a nig a t n ni i Sharon Mesmer/David Borchart wrote: > Yay! Happy b-day!!!! > > > On Aug 3, 2010, at 1:13 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > > >> HAPPY BIRTHDAY AMY >> >> amy king wrote: >> >>> Today's my bday (yes, I'm fishing), so if you are in Walt Whitman's birthplace >>>today, holla backchannel and I'll get you in the door... >>> >>> For those not in attendance, a completely objective review -- >>>http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-things.html >>> >>> >>> >>> And an Autogeography -- http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Chronic/amy-king.html >>> >>> Kiss, >>> >>> Amy >>> >>> >>> ******** >>> Poetry, Publishing, Women & the Internet + >>>http://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/your-own-revolution-poetry-publishing-the-internet/ >>> >>> Poets for Living Waters >>> + http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/ ******** >>> >>> >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & >>>sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & >>sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & >sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 08:24:30 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: andrew topel Subject: derek beaulieu's 'swarms' Comments: To: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, wryting-l@listserv.wvu.edu, fluxlist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <4ecf2c1e0909141755v6c2bd5d9ra28bb392a5086451@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 avantacular press announces the release of 'swarms' by derek beaulieu. to = order a copy of his chapbook=2C visit: =20 =20 http://avantacular-press.blogspot.com/2010/06/lthy.html =20 =20 =20 =20 some forthcoming titles: 'very short stories' by marton koppany & andrew to= pel=2C a collection by peter ganick=2C a collection by scott helmes & 'chew= ed' by karl kempton = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 17:21:10 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Charles Bernstein Subject: John Wieners EPC page MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Wieners EPC page http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/wieners/ Poems selected by CA Conrad Edited & designed by Jack Krick The EPC extends its warm thanks to Bill Corbett, Penelope Creeley, Jim Dunn, Raymond Foye, Jack Kimball and James Maynard for their invaluable assistance. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 10:51:12 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Boasting rights Comments: To: BRITISH-IRISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Check out Chris Andrews' review in the July 30=20 TLS of my anthology The Whole Island: Six Decades=20 of Cuban Poetry. In a word, he calls it "magnificent." Best, Mark New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a=20 lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the=20 poet alive in every sense of the word, and=20 through every one of his senses. Instead of=20 missing a beat or a part, Weiss=92 fragments are=20 like Chekhov=92s short stories=ADthe more that gets=20 left out, the more they seem to contain=85 One can=20 hear echoes from all the various=20 ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its=20 core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment=20 is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure=20 musical threnody=85[it] opens a window, not only=20 into a mind, but a person, a personality, this=20 human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket.=20 http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 12:53:21 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: John Latta Subject: At Isola di Rifiuti In-Reply-To: <4C5A2EF1.2010803@umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Some several may be interest'd in a piece call'd "What's Up with Silliman" examining the upshot and meaning of the already much-discussed decision by Ron Silliman to close comments at his blog. http://isola-di-rifiuti.blogspot.com/2010/08/whats-up-with-silliman-mystery-builds.html Other recent remarks on Roberto Bolano's The Return (New Directions) William Wylie's Route 36 (Flood Editions) The Koch / O'Hara Letters, 1955-56 (Lost & Found Project) and, as they say, more. JL http://isola-di-rifiuti.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 12:27:20 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: <72E0F000-FF33-4A96-99CD-401E9C8CAC7E@uw.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > I had a similar experience with transfinite numbers in an advanced logic class as an undergrad where we touched on real analysis on the way to understanding completeness and consistency proofs. I had a similar experience when my calculus instructor proved the power rule for me in office hours. i would never think to deny that there's something truly beautiful that goes on in mathematics, and I don't think the German Engineer would have denied that either. Who he? > Someday I hope to be able as an old man to return to this stuff and study non- euclidean geometry and mathematical logic again, because you're absolutely right that it is a wonderful and amazing thing. Where I think I differ from you Godel Turing and Cantor is that I'm not comfortable moving from there to making metaphysical or ontological claims about things like numbers or geometrical shapes. What metaphysical or ontological claims have I made that you would take issue with? I think there's much to recommend finitistic approaches philosophically. However, if finitistic philosophies cannot produce formal systems that generate the standard and very useful results of traditional mathematics, results that are used in real-world applications, very often, then that would seem to indicate that finitistic approaches do not go as far as they need to and *can without contradiction*. Assuming the existence of the actually infinite seems to be required to give us a formal system with the full generative capability required to generate the standard results that do seem to be very useful in modelling situations in the world. Not to say that 'infinity goes on before our eyes'. But the analytical tools we can make to help us with whatever it is that goes on before our eyes seem to require the actually infinite to attain full generative capability. This is different from, say, a green philosophy versus a black philosophy. Green philosophies/ecologies of mind may not provide us with the sort of economic growth associated with black philosophies, but they do allow us to continue living on the planet, whereas black philosophies hasten the demise of humanity and the planet as ecosystem. There is no analogous moral and pragmatic issue involved in finitistic versus actually infinite mathematical philosophies. Also, although finitistic philosophies emphasize their seeming congruence with the observable world (in which we never observe the actually infinite, only the poetentially infinite), if finitistic philosophies cannot produce formal systems that generate *all* the standard theorems of real analysis, then that would seem to indicate either that the finitistic philosophies are a bit wonky, not as strong as they should be, or that the standard results are wonky. But it seems clear the latter isn't the case, since those standard results are widely used in applied math in modelling stuff in the world. The 'fight' over the assumption of the existence of the actually infinite is over. Assuming the existence of the actually infinite has its place in every math department in the world and finitistic philosophies are not pursued with the seriousness that Wittgenstein, Brouwer, and the rest brought to the matter in a time when it was thought that such philosophies might well give us formal systems that were both more congruent with the observable world and also sufficiently rich and generative to be the standard formal systems in the math world. That battle was presumably over by the time Hilbert declared no one was gonna evict his ass or our ass from Georg's transfinite paradise hotel for mathematicians (1926). "Cantor's ideas ultimately were largely accepted, strongly supported by David Hilbert, amongst others. Hilbert predicted: "No one will drive us from the paradise which Cantor created for us" (Hilbert, 1926). To which Wittgenstein replied "if one person can see it as a paradise of mathematicians, why should not another see it as a joke?" " from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversy_over_Cantor%27s_theory > To me, this stuff is just magic (per my def. of magic here: http://www.wetasphalt.com/content/magician-priest-conjurer-lawyer-law-mysticism-magic-and-occult) and there I think is probably Wittgenstein's biggest failing, in that he didn't take his thoughts on magic far enough. Although he rightly took Fraser to task for the Golden Bough interpretation of shamanism, I think he didn't pursue the connection between magic, the inneffable, and religious ritual to the end that I think his view of language allows. I read your essay. Well done. And I will remember not to play you cards for money. > As for truth tables, you're right, and provably so. Emil Post developed them in the 1920s and can't have read the Tractatus, because it was as yet unpublished and unknown in the US. I do think the semantic theory of truth embodied in his invention of truth conditions (Tractatus 4.4 and sub comments) is a significant contribution as well, but even Wittgenstein might have debated that since he later became something like a deflationist and his analysis of truth is one of the things that I think one can firmly point to as a definite example of the differences between early and later Wittgenstein. That said, I think one goes a bit awry to think that Wittgenstein's import for mathematics rests solely on his contributions to mathematical logic. I think, for example, there's no diminishing of the beauty of mathematics if one adopts his antiplatonism, and I think he makes strong arguments that a platonic theory of number, for example, has to answer. More importantly, I think he makes a strong connection between mathematical meaning and mathematical application. Which is to say, I think on a Wittgensteinian view, that the discovery that logarithms were useful in the calculus and in chemistry gave new meaning to logarithms that weren't there for the early inventors of logarithms who had no knowledge of calculus, the physics of cosmology, or scientific chemistry. They were primarily a short hand for dealing with complex calculations involving ratios. I think this analysis as finding new meaning for an old part of mathematics makes a lot more sense of the human encounter with new mathematical applications than does the platonic view that those mathematical entities already exist in the world waiting to be discovered whether people come along or not. We talked earlier, Jason, about truth tables being obvious enough that they would have been invented (and, as you say, were) by someone else had Wittgenstein not done it. And we recognize that though it could have taken considerably longer, given its outstanding brilliance, beauty, and originality, so too would Godel's work have been done by someone else had Godel not done it. Why? Because he was dealing with pressing problems that many people were therefore working on. Even calculus, which is by no means obvious and plain jane, was simultaneously created/discovered by Newton and Leibniz. Because calculus is a tool that is very useful to solving the pressing mathematical problems of the time in which Newton and Leibniz lived. And because many people were therefore working on those problems. And because, though the formulations of calculus by Newton and Leibniz differed in significant ways, the underlying strategy of limits was the same: the notion of a limit of an infinite sequence. And why was it the same? Cuz that's basically what yu gotta do to find, say, the tangent to an equation that represents a curve. The pressing problems of the time needed calculus. It was the logical tool to develop/create. And in that sense, it was 'discovered'. We develop and create. If others, working on the same problems, end up developing and creating the same tools, it would seem that we were, instead, 'discovering'. But there's only so many ways to do certain things. Hammers were probly discovered all over the world. And some of the underlying ideas implicit therein. Just like the Pythagorean theorem was 'discovered' in many cultures (for surveying) before the notion of proof emerged. There are only so many useful moves at any point in the 'game'. In a formal system/language game, only so many states are reachable from any given state. Is this a Platonic or a nominalist take on the matter or something else? > In fact I think it makes things like logarithms or the number i more beautiful and even poetic in the fact that new meanings were found for them long after they were invented. I often wish he had lived a few more decades and could have seen the digital computer, because I wonder what he would have made of the work Turing/Godel/ Church et. al. were doing after seeing them given the meaning that calculating machines were able to make out of them. I think he would have thought it was a wonderful thing. > And at the same time, I think, maybe, he might argue that some of the awe that everybody who grasps things like incompleteness, transfinite numbers, and decideability problems (which, interestingly, he had no problem with. He thought that the halting problem was real and incorporated some of Turings work on algorithms into his thoughts on what mathematical meaning is) COULD be just the sort of giddiness one feels as a result of semantic paradoxes that come about through the syntactic manipulation that goes on in mathematics. Sure, we're all idiots and can't tell profound ideas from the witless pleasures of pushing symbols around. > ALthough clearly that's not the end of it, because the same thing happens like I said for a proof of the power rule, or an elegant proof of the pythagorean theorem, which both have a clear semantic meaning even in wittgenstein's sense of mathematical meaning. More importantly, while I'm not at all sure he's right, I think it is an interesting challenge to Set Theory to show that an infinite set should be analyzed as a rule for the unlimited extension of a series, I don't know what that means but should add that I'm not really curious to find out. I am more interested in your essay on magic than in Wittgenstein's mathematical philosophy. I'm sure he's an interesting writer, but his mathematical philosophy looks like a dead end to me. Since about 1926. > much the way that a calculation that presents an irrational number is a rule about how to extend of the number to N+1 places, rather than an actual infinite thing-in-itself. I'd be very curious if you knew of anything that takes up that notion, because it's always struck me as very compelling although philosophers I respect and who understand this stuff better than me (and who are otherwise sympathetic to Wittgenstein's view of mathematics, like Putnam and Fine) have remarked in passing that they think he was wrong about how he analyzed the diagonal proof. There are a couple of ways I'm aware of to think of irrational numbers. First, of course, we define a rational number as one that can be represented as A/B where A and B are integers and B is not 0. These are ratio-nal numbers. Irrational numbers are any numbers that can't be so represented. It's simple enough to show that root 2 is irrational. So they exist, these numbers. We can represent root 2 as the length of the hypotenuse of a right angle triangle with legs of length 1. A very 'observable' number. Observable as the length of the hypotenuse of a simple triangle. Another way to look at irrational numbers is their decimal expansion. It's fairly easy to show that the decimal expansion of rational numbers may start out willy nilly, but eventually there's a fixed block of digits that repeats forever after. like 9.028263789789789789789... the 789 part repeats forever; that's a rational number. Any number whose decimal expansion doesn't have this property (whereby a block of digits eventually repeats forever) is an irrational number. One way to look at the set of real numbers is like this. Start with the rational numbers. Now we make convergent sequences whose elements are rational numbers. Some of those convergent sequences will converge to rational numbers, some to irrational numbers. The set of real numbers can be thought of as the closure of the set of limits of convergent rational sequences. In other words, every irrational number can be thought of as the limit of a convergent infinite sequence of rational numbers. Irrational numbers are those numbers, together with the rational numbers, that are required to form a linear continuum. The construction of the real number system is towards a 'number line' of points that suffer no gaps. > What matters to me though, particularly in the realm of how all of this applies to poetry, is that I still think that semantic paradox is a useful tool of poetry that is very good at pointing to things that might otherwise not be able to be expressed by other more normal means. I think, for example, that the liar paradox is an interesting way to approach the notion of divinity, something I used in a poem I'm very proud of that tries to express something about my experience of the divine (published here if you're curious: http://www.blazevox.org/061-jfq.pdf) "philosophy ought to be written ... only as a form of poetry." ~Wittgenstein that's how he wrote it, isn't it. i got that. though i wasn't aware of the above quote. i don't understand how it "expresses something about my experience of the divine". what's up with that? > . And I think that's useful in poetry, because I can't tell you what it feels like to experience the divine in the same way that I can tell you that cutting my finger while chopping onions is painful. But I can try to create that feeling through poetry, and by talking in that sort of way, using that kind of approach where meaning is both looser and also more pointed, I think poetry can express the otherwise inexpressable, and that too is a kind of magic. It can hint at it. And be strong enough to give readers the opportunity to create their own experience. i mean you can't express the inexpressable. or it wouldn't be inexpressable. but the writing can engage people in the creation of their own related experience and understanding. > Finally, because I think you might enjoy it as it relates to Wittgenstein's appreciation for Turing, I give you this remark from the Remarks on the Foundations of Mathematics: > "What harm is done e.g. by saying that God knows all irrational numbers? Or: that they are already there, even though we only know certain of them? Why are these pictures not harmless? For one thing, they hide certain problems. > Suppose that people go on and on calculating the expansion of Ï€. So God, who knows everything, knows whether they will have reached ‘777’ by the end of the world. But can his omniscience decide whether they would have reached it after the end of the world? It cannot. I want to say: Even God can determine something mathematical only by mathematics. Even for him the mere rule of expansion cannot decide anything that it does not decide for us. > We might put it like this: if the rule for the expansion has been given us, a calculation can tell us that there is a ‘2’ at the fifth place. Could God have known this, without the calculation, purely from the rule of expansion? I want to say: No." I think there are things that God can't do. There are impossibilities. And, if they're impossible, then they're also impossible for God. Can God make a rock s/he/it can't lift? In either case, there's something God can't do. > Cheers and thanks again for the opportunity to flex these particular muscles. They do get rusty reading law books these days... Well, next time I'm in Seattle, we'll have to get together. And if yer up in Victoria, too. ja http://vispo.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 16:40:33 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Angela Vasquez-Giroux Subject: a somewhat silly question. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 dear poets -- a press has asked to view my manuscript (yipee!) but, having not been published before, i am in need of a bit of guidance. i'm working in standard MS word. if my press generally publishes books of between 85-100 pages, how many pages of word doc does that make? (in my MS, the poems don't share pages) any help is greatly appreciated! thanks, angela ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 13:55:59 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is "Portions of Conversational Assemblies" by Felino A. Soriano Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc , Wryting-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is "Portions of Conversational Assemblies" by Felino A. Soriano Description: "Portions of Conversational Assemblies" by Felino A. Soriano are ekphrastic interpretations of various jazz recordings, and part of the larger, dedicated series of poems Soriano has dedicated 2010 to composing. Available as a free ebook here: http://www.lulu.com/product/ebook/portions-of-conversational-assemblies/12105086 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 08:28:41 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Adam Fieled Subject: "Entitlements: Post-Modernity, Capitalism..." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a new essay online at the Argotist now: "Entitlements: Post-Modernit= y, =0ACapitalism, and the Threat to Poetry's History":=0A=0Ahttp://www.argo= tistonline.co.uk/Fieled%20essay%204.htm=0A=0AMany Thanks,=0AAdam Fieled=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 afieled@yahoo.com=A0=A0 =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 17:12:59 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9CEntitlements=3A_Post-Modernity=2C_Capitalism=2C_and?= =?UTF-8?Q?_the_Threat_to_Poetry's_History=E2=80=9D_?= by Adam Filed at The Argotist Online Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =E2=80=9CEntitlements: Post-Modernity, Capitalism, and the Threat to Poetry= 's History=E2=80=9D by Adam Filed at The Argotist Online: http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Fieled%20essay%204.htm Excerpt: The flimsy history created by post-modernity contrives to impose an intimid= ating veneer; but a lack of real engagement with history creates a sense of= the ephemeral which, if not embraced, (and post-modernists do express cons= onance with the =E2=80=9Cephemeral=E2=80=9D as such) must be rejected absol= utely. Many post-modern equations are simple: =E2=80=9Cincorporate or peris= h=E2=80=9D is one. What, beyond creating an imposing veneer, constitutes po= st-modern =E2=80=9Cincorporation=E2=80=9D? Nothing. Post-modernists, for wh= at=E2=80=99s often an obvious reason, feel entitled to stop at the surface;= the reason is that a persistent sense of entitlement inhibits and destroys= human depth. Deprivation often engenders depth=E2=80=94 if you have never = been deprived, it is difficult to imagine a need for depth. And if you espo= use and embrace Marxist levels of material engagement, but fail to connect = them to your own existence and begin to take some personal responsibility f= or it, you become a kind of sham factory owner. Anyone in the arts who has = not inherited funds the way that you have becomes an underling. Underlings = can be brushed aside; what begins as warped Marxism becomes straightforward= Darwinian obduracy. Simply put, the arts aren=E2=80=99t fair, and they nev= er have been. What post-modernity imposes is a context in which there is no= t only no justice in who =E2=80=9Cgets in,=E2=80=9D there is no justice in = what they feel they are entitled to do when/if they do get in. What do they= feel entitled to do, more often than not? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 09:17:30 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Stephen Baraban Subject: Spirituality in Poetry / "Cotton Song" In-Reply-To: <717391.10471.qm@web52408.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Various times when there have been threads on this list that involve "spirituality" "soul" and suchlike, I have meant to ask if someone could offer a clarifying interpretation of the line "God's body's got a soul" from Jean Toomer's "Cotton Song", that wonderfully vigorous poem from _Cane_, which is not only a classic of both the Harlem Rennaisance and the Lost Generation, as wikipedia would have it, but also another stupendous 1923 prose/poetry amalgam, alsongise Williams' _Spring and All_. The question, what in fact does it mean to declare "God's body's got a soul". For those who have a monotheistic God-concept, it's not debatable that God is Spirit, is it, whether or not one may also have a sense of God as body [as in the Charles Olson Maximus (Volume 3) poem beginning "I believe in God/as fully physical".] So what does it mean to make a full-throated proclamation that God has a Soul? Or does "God's body" in the poem mean "the human body created by God". The poem anyway delights and surprises me with its sense of the soul needing the body to set it in motion. Cotton Song Come, brother, come. Lets lift it; come now, hewit! roll away! Shackles fall upon the Judgment Day But lets not wait for it. God's body's got a soul, Bodies like to roll the soul, Cant blame God if we dont roll, Come, brother, roll, roll! Cotton bales are the fleecy way, Weary sinner's bare feet trod, Softly, softly to the throne of God, "We aint agwine t wait until th Judgment Day! Nassur; nassur, Hump. Eoho, eoho, roll away! We aint agwine to wait until th Judgment Day!" God's body's got a soul, Bodies like to roll the soul, Cant blame God if we dont roll, Come, brother, roll, roll! ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 11:58:55 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Stephen Baraban Subject: The I Am NOT The Walrus school? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Absolutely fascinating, Murat. The implication would seem to be that L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E writing contains extremely strange sequences of words because that mirrors or fits appropriately alongside all the "meaninglessness" that's spoken or written everywhere, as per this way of thinking [Hmmm, Shelley's "Hail to thee, blithe Spirit" would be utterly meaningless, but the next line "bird thou never wirt" is at least a proposition]. Giving the reader an insight into meaninglessness via extreme meaninglessness could be a more achievable goal than the allegedly oppression-shattering liberation of people's minds by disrupting syntax that was spoken of so much, and anyway seems more in line with the "clowntown is over" ethos of Langpo. Can you point me to any essays by lango writers in which this mimicking of nonsense is stated as a program? > > > > Jason, first let me respond to what you are saying. I > think there is more > > we > > agree with on Wittgenstein than we disagree with. My > objection to him is in > > the use and consequences of his rhetoric and his > effect on poetry and > > poetics in the United States. It narrows the > possibilities of poetry, > > particularly the way Language School applied his > ideas. Let me explain what > > I mean: > > > > a) It is true that Wittgenstein will not deny that the > subject-predicate > > structure is not the only way a sentence can be > constructed; but he > > delegates every other structure to second class by > calling it > > "meaningless," > > unable to be expressed as "true or false," etc. (I > need to go back to the > > text and choose a few more words with the same > rhetorical effect). > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 23:42:55 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Mt. Tremper performance (sound) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mt. Tremper performance (sound) Mt. Tremper performance - Foofwa d'Imobilite dance (you can hear the footstps); Azure Carter, voice; Alan Sondheim, violin, electric-acoustic oud, cura cumbus: http://espdisk.com/alansondheim/mttremper.mp3 (There was a lot of echo in the space, but you get the idea.) ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 14:48:53 -1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jonathan Morse Subject: Jonathan Morse blogs about John C. Yoo, the grammar of relative clauses, and Gertrude Stein MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit at http://jonathan-morse.blogspot.com/2010/08/grammar-sentenced-to-life.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 23:27:17 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: michael farrell Subject: competitions In-Reply-To: <4C5DCE46.2090307@bway.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable a rodeo to an apple bob - this to most poetry comps -=20 http://www.nycmidnight.com/2010/FFC/challenge.htm one thing i like about many u.s. poetry comps is that they have an aestheti= c context -unlike australia where the pretence is almost always the best of= the best - it may be acknowledged that different judges have different tas= tes but the blandout conventionalism of the basic premise is rarely challen= ged (wasnt going to raise this issue again but provoked by the above appearing = on my facebook page with the usual suggestion that i 'like' it. i 'x'ed it= =2C with the reason 'offensive'=2C but perhaps shdve clicked 'misleading') = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 22:52:52 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: CA Conrad Subject: John Wieners: HELLO JOHN, from 2010 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 John Wieners: HELLO JOHN, from 2010 THE BRAND NEW John Wieners EPC page: http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/wieners/ About a year and a half ago I complained to Jack Krick that there was no Wieners EPC page, and he said, "WELL THEN DO ONE WITH ME!" Jack Krick is one of those people who has been working hard for years for the love of poetry. He's pretty amazing! And he keeps the EPC pages lively and alive, and recently enough gave us the tremendous BLACKBURN page as well. Whatever THANKS Jack is given it can't possibly be enough! So I read EVERYTHING by Wieners to take this opportunity seriously! Interlibrary loan ordered all of his books for me over a period of a year. It was fantastic, and I LOVE the librarians of the world! THANK YOU LIBRARIANS OF THE WORLD! And all those amazing poets in Boston for their invaluable assistance. Jim Dunn was particularly great! As he always is! Joey Yearous-Algozin and Robbie Dewhurst took me to the Special Collections at Buffalo where we found the boradside by Judith Walker with the Wieners photo and his poem HOME DUTY. That was great, and I thank everyone at Buffalo, including James Maynard for helping us reprint it on this new EPC page. AN AMAZING FIND -- by sheer accident -- was when I was browsing the poetry section at the gay and lesbian library in Philadelphia and came across a couple of issues of LITTLE CAESARS magazine from the 1970's, published by Dennis Cooper. One of these had a Stephen Jonas tribute with an entry stating that the introduction to his 1965 collection TRANSMUTATIONS was written by John Wieners. The love and magic of interlibrary loan then made TRANSMUTATIONS appear, and to my delight the introduction by Wieners was actually two separate poems (the first written in 1959, the second in 1965). Neither of these poems had ever been reprinted since this slender volume of Jonas's poems with the Basil King drawings in 1965. But Jack Krick has lovingly reprinted them here. IN THE END what we need of course is a COLLECTED JOHN WIENERS. Right? Would anyone out there possibly disagree with me over this? THANK YOU JACK KRICK, AND EVERYONE ELSE WHO HELPED MAKE THIS POSSIBLE! LONG LIVE THE POETRY OF JOHN WIENERS! AND I ENCOURAGE YOU ALL TO UTILIZE INTERLIBRARY LOAN UNTIL A FULL COLLECTION IS AVAILABLE! CAConrad -- PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 22:09:10 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Krystal Languell Subject: Bone Bouquet: Now Reading for Issue 3 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please pass this call for submissions on to women who might be interested. Thank you for your support! Bone Bouquet seeks to publish the best new writing by female poets, from artists both established and emerging. We are especially interested in work that is unpredictable, poems that have both sass and authority. We are looking for poetry, interviews, craft essays, and reviews of chapbooks/books of poetry by women (please limit reviews to those that address books published in the last two years). We have added two fabulous assistant editors to our staff: Elizabeth Brasher of New Mexico and Allison Layfield of California. These women rock. Simultaneous submissions are fine, as long as we are notified when work is accepted elsewhere. Bone Bouquet only accepts previously unpublished work; we request first electronic rights, and would like to archive your work on the site. Please note that your work first appeared in Bone Bouquet if it is reprinted elsewhere on the web or in print. Submit up to five pages of poetry, up to twenty pages of interview, poetics essay, or review, up to three .jpeg images of original art. We look forward to reading your work, and are honored that you trust us to read it. For more information on our aesthetic, please read our first two issues online, which feature work from Kate Schapira, Danielle Pafunda, Susan Briante and many other amazing poets. All best, Krystal Languell Editor in Chief | Bone Bouquet http://bonebouquet.submishmash.com/Submit ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 11:54:19 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: sam truitt Subject: Vatne's CARTOGRAPHIES OF SILENCE: Book Party at Bowery, Saturday, August 14th MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Come and hear here* CARTOGRAPHIES OF SILENCE: Performance and celebration= , including music by Clifford Thompson composed for occasion. The Bowery Poetry Club *Saturday, August 14th at 4pm* The link: http://www.bowerypoetry.com/#Event/92728 Touted as a minimalist epic, *Cartographies of Silence* comprises over one hundred untitled poem fragments - what Vatne calls "unconscious interruptions" - that navigate maps of being/non-being, writing/speaking/thinking, to reveal the mind-body experience where silence meets language. Robert Kelly writes, =93Short words, short lines, short poe= ms. How big they are. How Vatne manages to travel so far.=94 Erik Vatne was born in New Jersey and holds degrees from Bard College and Trinity College Dublin. He recently completed a training program in psychotherapy and analysis at the C.G. Jung Institute in Zurich. There will be a book signing immediately following the performance. For more, visit www.erikvatne.com *Cartographies of Silence* Eric Vatne Paperback, 160 pages 978-1-58177-113-8 15.95 www.stationhill.org For more, please email publishers@stationhill.org _____________________________ Sam Truitt Managing Director Station Hill of Barrytown 120 Station Hill Road Barrytown, NY 12507 O-845-758-5293 C-518-817-8725 www.stationhill.org www.samtruitt.org ** =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 15:28:42 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nicholas Karavatos Subject: ...at Last Word Books in Olympa, WA on Thursday at 5:30pm... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Intermedia Spoken Word with NICHOLAS KARAVATOS & JEFF KELLEY in Olympia=2C = WA =20 Thursday =B7 5:30pm - 6:30pm=20 =20 Last Word Books 211 4th Avenue East Olympia=2C WA=20 =20 Poet Nicholas Karavatos and electronic guitarist Jeff Kelley will be perfor= ming in spontaneous collaboration on the Last Word Books stage at 5:30pm on= Thursday=2C August 12th. =20 In this inter-media spoken word performance celebrating the publication of = *No Asylum*=2C musician Jeff Kelley processes his pitched signals layering = sound upon sounds in conversation with poet Nicholas Karavatos reciting his= poems. =20 NICHOLAS KARAVATOS is include...d in the anthology *Punk Rock Saved My Ass*= (Ukiah: Medusa=92s Muse=2C 2010) and the latest issue of *West Wind Review= * (Ashland: University of Southern Oregon=2C 2010). In December 2009=2C Ame= ndment Nine (Arcata) published his first book *No Asylum* http://www.amazon= .com/dp/0984280006/ref=3Dcm_sw_su_dp =20 David Meltzer writes: "Nicholas Karavatos is a poet of great range and clar= ity. This book is an amazing collectanea of smart sharp political poetry in= tandem with astute and tender love lyrics. All of it voiced with an impres= sive singularity." =20 NICHOLAS KARAVATOS lives near Dubai=2C teaching literature and writing at t= he American University of Sharjah in the United Arab Emirates. He has been = an Assistant Professor there since 2006. From 2001 he had taught general st= udies at a small private college in Muscat=2C Sultanate of Oman. =20 NICHOLAS KARAVATOS is a graduate of Humboldt State University where he earn= ed his B.A. in English with a minor in Art History (1986)=2C and of New Col= lege of California where he earned an M.F.A. in Poetics (1999). =20 Audio Links: =20 http://www.archive.org/details/NicholasKaravatos-2009December2-ArcataTheate= rLoungeCalifornia http://www.archive.org/details/NicholasKaravatos1992September20NorthCountry= FairArcataPlaza http://www.archive.org/details/NicholasKaravatos-200818-AccidentGalleryInEu= rekaCa http://nicholaskaravatos.tumblr.com/ =20 Info Links: =20 http://www.lastwordbooks.org/=20 http://www.facebook.com/pages/Nicholas-Karavatos/253191112780 http://nicholaskaravatos.blogspot.com/ =20 NO ASYLUM is available from these independent booksellers: =20 Arcata=2C CA =96 Northtown Books La Jolla=2C CA =96 D.G. Wills Books Portland=2C OR =96 Powell=92s Books Salem=2C OR =96 Tigress Books San Francisco=2C CA =96 Bird & Beckett San Francisco=2C CA =96 Books & Bookshelves Venice=2C CA =96 Beyond Baroque=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 15:32:03 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nicholas Karavatos Subject: ...at SoulFood Books in Redmond, WA on Wednesday at 7:00pm... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 =20 Intermedia Spoken Word with NICHOLAS KARAVATOS & JEFF KELLEY in Redmond=2C = WA =20 Wednesday =B7 7:00pm - 8:00pm =20 SoulFood Books 15748 Redmond Way Redmond=2C WA=20 =20 Poet Nicholas Karavatos and electronic guitarist Jeff Kelley will be perfor= ming in spontaneous collaboration on the SoulFood Books stage at 7:00pm on = Wednesday=2C August 11th. =20 In this inter-media spoken word performance celebrating the publication of = *No Asylum*=2C musician Jeff Kelley processes his pitched signals layering = sound upon sounds in conversation with poet Nicholas Karavatos reciting his= poems. =20 NICHOLAS KARAVATOS is include...d in the anthology *Punk Rock Saved My Ass*= (Ukiah: Medusa=92s Muse=2C 2010) and the latest issue of *West Wind Review= * (Ashland: University of Southern Oregon=2C 2010). In December 2009=2C Ame= ndment Nine (Arcata) published his first book *No Asylum* http://www.amazon= .com/dp/0984280006/ref=3Dcm_sw_su_dp =20 David Meltzer writes: "Nicholas Karavatos is a poet of great range and clar= ity. This book is an amazing collectanea of smart sharp political poetry in= tandem with astute and tender love lyrics. All of it voiced with an impres= sive singularity." =20 NICHOLAS KARAVATOS lives near Dubai=2C teaching literature and writing at t= he American University of Sharjah in the United Arab Emirates. He has been = an Assistant Professor there since 2006. From 2001 he had taught general st= udies at a small private college in Muscat=2C Sultanate of Oman. =20 NICHOLAS KARAVATOS is a graduate of Humboldt State University where he earn= ed his B.A. in English with a minor in Art History (1986)=2C and of New Col= lege of California where he earned an M.F.A. in Poetics (1999). =20 Audio Links: =20 http://www.archive.org/details/NicholasKaravatos-2009December2-ArcataTheate= rLoungeCalifornia http://www.archive.org/details/NicholasKaravatos1992September20NorthCountry= FairArcataPlaza http://www.archive.org/details/NicholasKaravatos-200818-AccidentGalleryInEu= rekaCa http://nicholaskaravatos.tumblr.com/ =20 Info Links: =20 http://www.lastwordbooks.org/=20 http://www.facebook.com/pages/Nicholas-Karavatos/253191112780 http://nicholaskaravatos.blogspot.com/ =20 NO ASYLUM is available from these independent booksellers: =20 Arcata=2C CA =96 Northtown Books La Jolla=2C CA =96 D.G. Wills Books Portland=2C OR =96 Powell=92s Books Salem=2C OR =96 Tigress Books San Francisco=2C CA =96 Bird & Beckett San Francisco=2C CA =96 Books & Bookshelves Venice=2C CA =96 Beyond Baroque = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 13:22:50 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Original poetry comics, make me an offer! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've been selling the original art of the poetry comics I've drawn for Rain= Taxi since 1997 at: http://newlife.blogspot.com If you see something that does not have a red "SOLD" in the description=2C = it's still available. If you can't afford what I'm asking=2C make me an off= er! garypsullivan [at] gmail [dot] com Thanks=2C Gary = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 10:19:08 -0400 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Rob McLennan Subject: The Peter F. Yacht Club: a miscellany, a note on The Peter F. Yacht Club; http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/2010/08/peter-f-yacht-club-miscellany.html rob -- writer/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...poetry - wild horses (U of Alberta) ...2nd novel - missing persons www.abovegroundpress.blogspot.com * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 14:18:11 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: John Wieners: HELLO JOHN, from 2010 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you so much, Conrad. Wieners is one of my guiding lights. CA Conrad wrote: > John Wieners: HELLO JOHN, from 2010 > > THE BRAND NEW John Wieners EPC page: http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/wieners/ > > About a year and a half ago I complained to Jack Krick that there was > no Wieners EPC page, and he said, "WELL THEN DO ONE WITH ME!" Jack > Krick is one of those people who has been working hard for years for > the love of poetry. He's pretty amazing! And he keeps the EPC pages > lively and alive, and recently enough gave us the tremendous BLACKBURN > page as well. Whatever THANKS Jack is given it can't possibly be > enough! > > So I read EVERYTHING by Wieners to take this opportunity seriously! > Interlibrary loan ordered all of his books for me over a period of a > year. It was fantastic, and I LOVE the librarians of the world! > THANK YOU LIBRARIANS OF THE WORLD! > > And all those amazing poets in Boston for their invaluable assistance. > Jim Dunn was particularly great! As he always is! > > Joey Yearous-Algozin and Robbie Dewhurst took me to the Special > Collections at Buffalo where we found the boradside by Judith Walker > with the Wieners photo and his poem HOME DUTY. That was great, and I > thank everyone at Buffalo, including James Maynard for helping us > reprint it on this new EPC page. > > AN AMAZING FIND -- by sheer accident -- was when I was browsing the > poetry section at the gay and lesbian library in Philadelphia and came > across a couple of issues of LITTLE CAESARS magazine from the 1970's, > published by Dennis Cooper. One of these had a Stephen Jonas tribute > with an entry stating that the introduction to his 1965 collection > TRANSMUTATIONS was written by John Wieners. > > The love and magic of interlibrary loan then made TRANSMUTATIONS > appear, and to my delight the introduction by Wieners was actually two > separate poems (the first written in 1959, the second in 1965). > Neither of these poems had ever been reprinted since this slender > volume of Jonas's poems with the Basil King drawings in 1965. But > Jack Krick has lovingly reprinted them here. > > IN THE END what we need of course is a COLLECTED JOHN WIENERS. Right? > Would anyone out there possibly disagree with me over this? > > THANK YOU JACK KRICK, AND EVERYONE ELSE WHO HELPED MAKE THIS POSSIBLE! > > LONG LIVE THE POETRY OF JOHN WIENERS! AND I ENCOURAGE YOU ALL TO > UTILIZE INTERLIBRARY LOAN UNTIL A FULL COLLECTION IS AVAILABLE! > > CAConrad > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 12:19:14 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Boasting rights In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Why are you telling us this? gb On Aug 6, 2010, at 7:51 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Check out Chris Andrews' review in the July 30 TLS of my anthology =20 > The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry. In a word, he calls =20 > it "magnificent." > > Best, > > Mark > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. > $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation =20= > of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, =20 > and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a =20= > part, Weiss=92 fragments are like Chekhov=92s short stories the more =20= > that gets left out, the more they seem to contain=85 One can hear =20 > echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its =20 > center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is =20 > both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody=85[it] =20 > opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, =20 > this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-=20 > stephens.shtml > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/=20 > welcome.html George Bowering . . . or liver and onions =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 12:24:01 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: George Bowering Subject: Re: competitions In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed The ad for a competition that you have included says "there are a total" Are we to take it that entrants have to try to achieve that level of English usage? gb On Aug 7, 2010, at 4:27 PM, michael farrell wrote: > a rodeo to an apple bob - this to most poetry comps - > > http://www.nycmidnight.com/2010/FFC/challenge.htm > > one thing i like about many u.s. poetry comps is that they have an > aesthetic context -unlike australia where the pretence is almost > always the best of the best - it may be acknowledged that different > judges have different tastes but the blandout conventionalism of > the basic premise is rarely challenged > > (wasnt going to raise this issue again but provoked by the above > appearing on my facebook page with the usual suggestion that i > 'like' it. i 'x'ed it, with the reason 'offensive', but perhaps > shdve clicked 'misleading') > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ > welcome.html George Bowering Hiyo, Aluminum, away! ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 15:42:47 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Boasting rights In-Reply-To: <30994139-820D-440F-BE1A-7098DE4C72B5@sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Advertizing. At 03:19 PM 8/9/2010, you wrote: >Why are you telling us this? > >gb > > >On Aug 6, 2010, at 7:51 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > >>Check out Chris Andrews' review in the July 30 TLS of my anthology >>The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry. In a word, he calls >>it "magnificent." >> >>Best, >> >>Mark >> >> >> >>New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. >>$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm >> >> >>"What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation >>of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, >>and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a >>part, Weiss=92 fragments are like Chekhov=92s short stories the more >>that gets left out, the more they seem to contain=85 One can hear >>echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its >>center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is >>both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody=85[it] >>opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, >>this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." >> >>M.G. Stephens, in Jacket.=20 >>http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb- stephens.shtml >> >>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ welcome.html > >George Bowering > >. . . or liver and onions > > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept=20 >all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 >http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a=20 lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the=20 poet alive in every sense of the word, and=20 through every one of his senses. Instead of=20 missing a beat or a part, Weiss=92 fragments are=20 like Chekhov=92s short stories=ADthe more that gets=20 left out, the more they seem to contain=85 One can=20 hear echoes from all the various=20 ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its=20 core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment=20 is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure=20 musical threnody=85[it] opens a window, not only=20 into a mind, but a person, a personality, this=20 human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket.=20 http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 15:46:02 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Angela Vasquez-Giroux Subject: Re: competitions In-Reply-To: <2F6154D3-DC7B-49DF-BF31-C19545C1921B@sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 maybe my brain is on hiatus already, but for the life of me, I can't figure out what's wrong with "there are a total". On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 3:24 PM, George Bowering wrote: > The ad for a competition that you have included says > "there are a total" > > Are we to take it that entrants have to try to achieve that level of > English usage? > > gb > > > > > On Aug 7, 2010, at 4:27 PM, michael farrell wrote: > > a rodeo to an apple bob - this to most poetry comps - >> >> http://www.nycmidnight.com/2010/FFC/challenge.htm >> >> one thing i like about many u.s. poetry comps is that they have an >> aesthetic context -unlike australia where the pretence is almost always the >> best of the best - it may be acknowledged that different judges have >> different tastes but the blandout conventionalism of the basic premise is >> rarely challenged >> >> (wasnt going to raise this issue again but provoked by the above appearing >> on my facebook page with the usual suggestion that i 'like' it. i 'x'ed it, >> with the reason 'offensive', but perhaps shdve clicked 'misleading') >> >> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > George Bowering > > Hiyo, Aluminum, away! > > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 19:58:35 +0000 Reply-To: tenneyn@comcast.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: Re: John Wieners: HELLO JOHN, from 2010 In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 SSBzaGFsbCB3YWxrDQpXaXRoIG15IGV5ZXMgdXAgb24geW91IGZvcmV2ZXINCg0KKg0KDQpBbmQg dGluZ2xlLXRhbmdsZSBpbiB0aGUgYWZ0ZXJub29uDQoNCioNCg0KSXMgdGhhdCBhYm91dCByaWdo dD8gIEFueXdheSwgb2ggeWVhaCEgIEFuZCB0aGFua3MgdG8gYWxsIGludm9sdmVkDQojIFROIGZy b20gbW9iaWxlICMNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206ICAgICAgICAg Q0EgQ29ucmFkIDxjYWNvbnJhZDEzQEdNQUlMLkNPTT4NClNlbmRlcjogICAgICAgIlBvZXRpY3Mg TGlzdCAoVVBlbm4sIFVCKSIgPFBPRVRJQ1NATElTVFNFUlYuQlVGRkFMTy5FRFU+DQpEYXRlOiAg ICAgICAgIFNhdCwgNyBBdWcgMjAxMCAyMjo1Mjo1MiANClRvOiA8UE9FVElDU0BMSVNUU0VSVi5C 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Subject: Announcing issue nine of Eleven Eleven MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Announcing the release of Issue #9, our summer print issue of Eleven Eleven= , a =0Ajournal of literature and art published by the graduate writing pro= gram at =0ACalifornia College of the Arts.=0A=0A =0AFeaturing brill= iant poetry by Rae Armentrout, Elizabeth Bachinsky, Diego B=C3=A1ez, =0AChi= ng-in Chen, Amanda Chiado, Patrick Culliton, Barbara Cully, Ariel Dorfman, = =0ADenise Duhamel, Craig Foltz, Sarah Fox, Molly Gaudry, Susanne Gardinier,= =0ASamantha Giles, Gabe Gomez, Noah Eli Gordon, K. Lorraine Graham, ali la= nzetta, =0AClarence Major, Natasha Marin, Catherine Meng, Toni Mirosevich, = Er=C3=ADn Moure, =0ASachiko Murakami, Alexis Orgera, Danielle Pafunda, Meli= ssa M. Parks, Elizabeth =0ARobinson, Fred Schmalz, Heidi Lynn Staples, Jord= an Stempleman, Bronwen Tate, =0ALaura Ulewicz, Afaa M. Weaver, Joshua Marie= Wilkinson, Jordan Windholz and Sarah =0AFran Wisby;=0A=0ADazzling prose by= Preston Allen, Amelia Beamer, Sean Bernard, Elizabeth =0ABernstein, Aurora= Brackett, J Morris, Manuel Mu=C3=B1oz, Alissa Nutting, Hilton =0AObenzinge= r, Loren Rhoads, and Julie Wittes Schlack;=0A =0AWonderful translations of = work by Georges-Olivier Ch=C3=A2teaureynaud (Edward =0AGauvin), Maria Negro= ni (Michelle Gil-Montero) and Bernard No=C3=ABl (Ele=CC=81na Rivera);=0A = =0AProvocative drama by Bennett Fisher and L. Robert Griffin;=0A=0Aand Bang= ing art by Bradley Castellanos, Phillip Dvorak, C=C3=A9line Fernbach, Danie= l =0AGordon, Karna Kurata, Wayne Levin, Polixeni Papapetrou, Romain Philipp= on, Leah =0ARaintree, Sage Sohier and Lars Tunbj=C3=B6rk.=0A =0APlus review= s of Sum of Every Lost Ship by Allison Titus and Model Home by Eric =0APuch= ner!=0AAll this and only $10! Just go to =0Ahttp://www.spdbooks.org/Produc= te/1548243910/eleven-eleven-vol-9-2010.aspx=0A=0ASubscriptions? Four years= , just $30! Make checks out to California College of =0Athe Arts, Attn: = Eleven Eleven.=0A=0AWhat's more, we're currently reading for issue 10, our = winter online issue.=0A=0ASend writing and/or checks to:=0A=0AEleven Eleven= =0ACalifornia College of the Arts=0A1111 Eighth St.=0ASan Francisco, CA 941= 07=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 01:57:35 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: michael farrell Subject: Re: competitions In-Reply-To: <2F6154D3-DC7B-49DF-BF31-C19545C1921B@sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable rodeo vernacular? > Date: Mon=2C 9 Aug 2010 12:24:01 -0700 > From: bowering@SFU.CA > Subject: Re: competitions > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 > The ad for a competition that you have included says > "there are a total" >=20 > Are we to take it that entrants have to try to achieve that level of =20 > English usage? >=20 > gb >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Aug 7=2C 2010=2C at 4:27 PM=2C michael farrell wrote: >=20 > > a rodeo to an apple bob - this to most poetry comps - > > > > http://www.nycmidnight.com/2010/FFC/challenge.htm > > > > one thing i like about many u.s. poetry comps is that they have an =20 > > aesthetic context -unlike australia where the pretence is almost =20 > > always the best of the best - it may be acknowledged that different =20 > > judges have different tastes but the blandout conventionalism of =20 > > the basic premise is rarely challenged > > > > (wasnt going to raise this issue again but provoked by the above =20 > > appearing on my facebook page with the usual suggestion that i =20 > > 'like' it. i 'x'ed it=2C with the reason 'offensive'=2C but perhaps =20 > > shdve clicked 'misleading') > > > > > > =09 > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 > > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/=20 > > welcome.html >=20 > George Bowering >=20 > Hiyo=2C Aluminum=2C away! >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 19:37:51 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Seaman Subject: Re: a somewhat silly question. In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Congratulations, first of all! Formats can vary a l= Dear Angela,=0A=0ACongratulations, first of all!=0A=0AFormats can vary a l= ot, but your idea of a poem to a page sounds like a good standard. Hence, = 85 poems?=0A=0ADavid=EF=BB=BF=0A=0ADavid W. Seaman, Ph.D.=0Ahttp://persona= l.georgiasouthern.edu/~dseaman/Welcome.html=0A=0AFollow my Twitter poetry = at dseaman40=0A=0AYouTube video of my Venice Biennale poem: =0Ahttp://www.= youtube.com/watch?v=3DJQ5bOuJBN_k=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn 06 Aug, 2010,at 04:4= 0 PM, Angela Vasquez-Giroux wrote:=0A=0A= > dear poets --=0A>=0A> a press has asked to view my manuscript (yipee!) b= ut, having not been=0A> published before, i am in need of a bit of guidanc= e.=0A>=0A> i'm working in standard MS word. if my press generally publishe= s books of=0A> between 85-100 pages, how many pages of word doc does that = make?=0A>=0A> (in my MS, the poems don't share pages)=0A>=0A> any help is = greatly appreciated!=0A>=0A> thanks,=0A>=0A> angela=0A>=0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts= Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcom= e.html=0A= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 19:30:19 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Seaman Subject: Re: competitions In-Reply-To: <2F6154D3-DC7B-49DF-BF31-C19545C1921B@sfu.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable While those of us in the grammar police (either official or clandestine) l= ike to disparage any errors, we must also recognize that usage is flexible= and evolving, It may be that there are myriad ways to express things, wit= h a whole range of "levels of usage." Let's live with it and enjoy it.=0A=0A= David =EF=BB=BF=0A=0ADavid W. Seaman, Ph.D.=0Ahttp://personal.georgiasouth= ern.edu/~dseaman/Welcome.html=0A=0AFollow my Twitter poetry at dseaman40=0A= =0AYouTube video of my Venice Biennale poem: =0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/wat= ch?v=3DJQ5bOuJBN_k=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn 09 Aug, 2010,at 03:24 PM, George Bo= wering wrote:=0A=0A> The ad for a competition that you h= ave included says=0A> "there are a total"=0A>=0A> Are we to take it that e= ntrants have to try to achieve that level of=0A> English usage?=0A>=0A> gb= =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> On Aug 7, 2010, at 4:27 PM, michael farrell wrote:=0A>=0A= > > a rodeo to an apple bob - this to most poetry comps -=0A> >=0A> > http= ://www.nycmidnight.com/2010/FFC/challenge.htm=0A> >=0A> > one thing i like= about many u.s. poetry comps is that they have an=0A> > aesthetic context= -unlike australia where the pretence is almost=0A> > always the best of t= he best - it may be acknowledged that different=0A> > judges have differen= t tastes but the blandout conventionalism of=0A> > the basic premise is ra= rely challenged=0A> >=0A> > (wasnt going to raise this issue again but pro= voked by the above=0A> > appearing on my facebook page with the usual sugg= estion that i=0A> > 'like' it. i 'x'ed it, with the reason 'offensive', bu= t perhaps=0A> > shdve clicked 'misleading')=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> > =3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accep= t all posts. Check=0A> > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.e= du/poetics/=0A> > welcome.html=0A>=0A> George Bowering=0A>=0A> Hiyo, Alumi= num, away!=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> The Poetics = List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsu= b info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 14:17:53 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Comments: RFC822 error: FROM field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "To=". Rest of header flushed. From: Cate Marvin Subject: VIDA: Women in Literary Arts -- One Year Later: PLEASE READ! Comments: To: Discussion of Women's Poetry List , "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ---- Forwarded Message ----=0AFrom: Cate Marvin =0ATo= : Cate Marvin =0ASent: Sun, August 8, 2010 2:00:11 PM= =0ASubject: VIDA: Women in Literary Arts -- One Year Later: PLEASE READ!=0A= =0A=0A=0ADear Friend,=0A =0AIt=E2=80=99s quite strange to realize it was on= ly a year ago I sat hunkered down in my =0Asweaty apartment writing an emai= l that seemed to blast right out of my head.=0A =0AIf you received this mis= sive, you=E2=80=99ll know I=E2=80=99d spent the evening folding a LOT of = =0Alaundry =E2=80=93 an endless chore made worse by the fact I was not onl= y =0Afolding my laundry, but also that of my 8 month old daughter (any pare= nt will =0Aattest that the act of sorting a mountain of brightly patterned = shirts, socks =0Aand pajamas is in itself a certain hell). After projecting= myself into the =0Amindset of the narrator of Tillie Olsen=E2=80=99s semin= al short story =E2=80=9CI Stand Here =0AIroning,=E2=80=9D I allowed myself = a couple glasses of wine. This, I believe, was a key =0Afactor in my commit= ting the most grievous of email sins.=0A =0AFor not only did I send my emai= l to numerous people=E2=80=94 worse, I concluded my =0Amissive with a most = lamentable statement: =E2=80=9CFeel free to forward this to anyone =0Aand e= veryone you think might be interested.=E2=80=9D=0A =0AThis email, titled: = =E2=80=9CAs I Stood Folding Laundry: Women=E2=80=99s Writing Now,=E2=80=9D = was =0Aspurred by my disgruntlement over the fact an AWP proposal I=E2=80= =99d =0Asubmitted--addressing a rhetorical means of dissent in contemporary= American =0Awomen=E2=80=99s poetry--had been rejected. In my email I worri= ed aloud about whether =0Athis panel had been dismissed because of its dist= inctly feminist overtones, =0Awhile also noting certain trends I=E2=80=99d = observed in the literary world: =0Aspecifically how male literary achieveme= nts are so often deemed more important =0Athan those of women with regard t= o publication, criticism, reviews, awards, etc.=0A =0AWhile this disparity = had long seemed obvious to me, I=E2=80=99d never before had the =0Anerve to= speak to it openly.=0A =0AMy email went on to describe my fantasy of creat= ing an association that would =0Aserve to unite women writers, across genre= s, aesthetics, ethnicities and =0Agenerations. Indeed, in the simple act o= f conceiving such an organization=E2=80=99s =0Apotential, I got so fired up= that evening it seemed to me perfectly reasonable =0Athat I send my though= ts to every female writer I knew.=0A =0AThe following morning my in-box was= full.=0A =0AIn less than twelve hours, I=E2=80=99d already received numero= us replies=E2=80=94some from =0Afemale poets I considered so awe-inspiringl= y important I was stunned to see =0Atheir names appear on my computer=E2=80= =99s screen; others from women writers I=E2=80=99d never =0Amet, who wrote = compelling accounts of their own frustrations, each one =0Aexpressing a des= ire to create a national forum for the very issues my email had =0Aaddresse= d.=0A =0AI was awed by the response. But I was also afraid. Because I recog= nized that I=E2=80=99d =0Aunwittingly taken on a responsibility to remain t= rue to all that I=E2=80=99d written =0Aonly the night before. I realized I = would not only need to acknowledge the =0Aimmediate support with which my p= roposal had been received, but that I must also =0Aembrace it.=0AI discover= ed that it was due to the poet Erin Belieu=E2=80=99s initiative that my ema= il =0Areached the astonishing number of people it did. It was she who sent = my email to =0Asome forty established female poets, who then sent it on to = the female writers =0Athey knew. It was due to Erin=E2=80=99s initial enthu= siasm that my email went, as they =0Asay, viral, ending up on blogs, listse= rvs and in newspapers throughout the =0Acountry=0A =0ASo it only seemed fai= r to turn to the culprit who had so thoroughly disseminated =0Amy thoughts.= I didn=E2=80=99t in fact know Erin Belieu well personally, but I knew she = =0Ahad a reputation for gumption and guts, something this fantasy organizat= ion was =0Agoing to need to get off the ground.=0A =0AOne short phone call = later and I now had a co-director. It was that day that =0AErin and I co-fo= unded the organization that began as WILLA, and has now =0Atransformed into= a different name--VIDA: Women in Literary Arts.=0A =0A[To create a more di= stinct identity and preempt possible legal issues, WILLA =E2=80=A8is now VI= DA. We are confident that we've already begun to grow into our new =E2=80= =A8name and feel that "VIDA" better reflects the vitality of our organizati= on.]=0A =0ASo I write to you a year later from a poorly air-conditioned roo= m while =0Asuffering the advances of a particularly persistent mosquito. I = still have =0Alaundry that needs sorting. However, I can say that my life a= s a female writer =0Abeen not only been invigorated, but deeply altered, in= the best sense of the =0Aword, by the email I almost regretted sending a y= ear ago.=0A =0AVIDA=E2=80=99s had a great first year. A few of many highlig= hts include our mention in =0Athe New York Times for calling outPublisher= =E2=80=99s Weekly =E2=80=9CTop Ten Best Books of =0A2009,=E2=80=9D and thei= r egregiously =E2=80=9Cfemale-free=E2=80=9D list. VIDA also hosted a number= of =0Areadings and conversations, including our AWP Evening of Burlesque, = Roller Derby =0AAnd Literature, which turned out to be just as thought prov= oking and fun as we=E2=80=99d =0Awanted our debut to be. We=E2=80=99ve rece= ntly been asked by AWP to be a sponsor of next =0Ayear=E2=80=99s conference= in Washington DC and are busily scheming to make our follow up =0Ajust as = memorable.=0A =0AThere are many more things under way for VIDA this year: w= e have a spiffy new =0Awebsite and blog (www.vidaweb.org) with articles and= features you=E2=80=99ll want to =0Acheck out as well as a new Facebook pag= e where you can find out about VIDA =0Aevents and join the thousands of peo= ple there who=E2=80=99ve entered into our =0Aconversation. We=E2=80=99re al= so moving along in planning a national conference for =0Athose who want to = support and know more about literature written by women. It=E2=80=99s =0Ahe= avy-lifting, but we=E2=80=99re devoted to making this enormous and financia= lly =0Acomplicated project happen. More information will be coming about th= is soon.=0A =0AThank you for reading this. I hope that you will once again:= =E2=80=9CFeel free to =0Aforward this to anyone and everyone you think mig= ht be interested.=E2=80=9D=0A =0AYour friend,=0A =0ACate=0A-- =0ACate Marvi= n, Associate Professor=0ADepartment of English=0ACollege of Staten Island, = CUNY=0A=0ACo-Director, VIDA: Women in Literary Arts=0A=0Acatemarvin.com=0A= =0Avidaweb.org=0A=0A =0A********=0APoetry, Publishing, Women & the Internet= =0A+ http://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/your-own-revolution-poetry-pu= blishing-the-internet/ =0A=0A=0APoets for Living Waters=0A+ http://poetsgul= fcoast.wordpress.com/ =0A********=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 20:24:57 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Re: competitions In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hear, hear! Or at least relax a bit and channel that energy towards someth= ing =0Aactually worth combatting...=0A=0A =0A********=0APoetry, Publishing,= Women & the Internet =0A+ http://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/your-own= -revolution-poetry-publishing-the-internet/ =0A=0A=0APoets for Living Water= s=0A+ http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/ =0A********=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Ori= ginal Message ----=0AFrom: David Seaman =0ATo: POETICS@L= ISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Mon, August 9, 2010 10:30:19 PM=0ASubject: Re: = competitions=0A=0AWhile those of us in the grammar police (either official = or clandestine) like to =0Adisparage any errors, we must also recognize tha= t usage is flexible and =0Aevolving, It may be that there are myriad ways t= o express things, with a whole =0Arange of "levels of usage." Let's live wi= th it and enjoy it.=0A=0ADavid =EF=BB=BF=0A=0ADavid W. Seaman, Ph.D.=0Ahttp= ://personal.georgiasouthern.edu/~dseaman/Welcome.html=0A=0AFollow my Twitte= r poetry at dseaman40=0A=0AYouTube video of my Venice Biennale poem: =0Ahtt= p://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DJQ5bOuJBN_k=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn 09 Aug, 2010,= at 03:24 PM, George Bowering wrote:=0A=0A> The ad for a c= ompetition that you have included says=0A> "there are a total"=0A>=0A> Are = we to take it that entrants have to try to achieve that level of=0A> Englis= h usage?=0A>=0A> gb=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> On Aug 7, 2010, at 4:27 PM, michael far= rell wrote:=0A>=0A> > a rodeo to an apple bob - this to most poetry comps -= =0A> >=0A> > http://www.nycmidnight.com/2010/FFC/challenge.htm=0A> >=0A> > = one thing i like about many u.s. poetry comps is that they have an=0A> > ae= sthetic context -unlike australia where the pretence is almost=0A> > always= the best of the best - it may be acknowledged that different=0A> > judges = have different tastes but the blandout conventionalism of=0A> > the basic p= remise is rarely challenged=0A> >=0A> > (wasnt going to raise this issue ag= ain but provoked by the above=0A> > appearing on my facebook page with the = usual suggestion that i=0A> > 'like' it. i 'x'ed it, with the reason 'offen= sive', but perhaps=0A> > shdve clicked 'misleading')=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> = > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> > The Poetics List is moderated & does n= ot accept all posts. Check=0A> > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.bu= ffalo.edu/poetics/=0A> > welcome.html=0A>=0A> George Bowering=0A>=0A> Hiyo,= Aluminum, away!=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> The = Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & = =0A>sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A=0A=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all= posts. Check guidelines & =0Asub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetic= s/welcome.html=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 22:30:34 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jared Schickling Subject: Re: =?Windows-1252?Q?=93Entitlements=3A_Post-Modernity=2C_Capitalism=2C_an?= =?Windows-1252?Q?d_the_Threat_to_Poetry's_=3E_History=94_?= by Adam Fieled In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Adam Fieled=2C Your love affair with categories and search for edifying "upward" feelings = lead you to say some truly stupid things in your essay. Post-modernity's "lack of real engagement with history" etc. I find it interesting how well you resist or miss what the poetic interest = in Marxist theory has been. Written like a true capitalist. Don't be jealous. Cheers.=20 = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 00:03:20 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: George Bowering Subject: Re: competitions In-Reply-To: <995510.39087.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes; format=flowed I guess that there is so much relaxing going on that I don't have to =20 contribute to it. gb On Aug 9, 2010, at 8:24 PM, amy king wrote: > Hear, hear! Or at least relax a bit and channel that energy =20 > towards something > actually worth combatting... > > > ******** > Poetry, Publishing, Women & the Internet > + http://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/your-own-revolution-=20 > poetry-publishing-the-internet/ > > > Poets for Living Waters > + http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/ > ******** > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: David Seaman > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Mon, August 9, 2010 10:30:19 PM > Subject: Re: competitions > > While those of us in the grammar police (either official or =20 > clandestine) like to > disparage any errors, we must also recognize that usage is flexible =20= > and > evolving, It may be that there are myriad ways to express things, =20 > with a whole > range of "levels of usage." Let's live with it and enjoy it. > > David =EF=BB=BF > > David W. Seaman, Ph.D. > http://personal.georgiasouthern.edu/~dseaman/Welcome.html > > Follow my Twitter poetry at dseaman40 > > YouTube video of my Venice Biennale poem: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DJQ5bOuJBN_k > > > > > > On 09 Aug, 2010,at 03:24 PM, George Bowering wrote: > >> The ad for a competition that you have included says >> "there are a total" >> >> Are we to take it that entrants have to try to achieve that level of >> English usage? >> >> gb >> >> >> >> On Aug 7, 2010, at 4:27 PM, michael farrell wrote: >> >>> a rodeo to an apple bob - this to most poetry comps - >>> >>> http://www.nycmidnight.com/2010/FFC/challenge.htm >>> >>> one thing i like about many u.s. poetry comps is that they have an >>> aesthetic context -unlike australia where the pretence is almost >>> always the best of the best - it may be acknowledged that different >>> judges have different tastes but the blandout conventionalism of >>> the basic premise is rarely challenged >>> >>> (wasnt going to raise this issue again but provoked by the above >>> appearing on my facebook page with the usual suggestion that i >>> 'like' it. i 'x'ed it, with the reason 'offensive', but perhaps >>> shdve clicked 'misleading') >>> >>> >>> >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ >>> welcome.html >> >> George Bowering >> >> Hiyo, Aluminum, away! >> >> >> >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 >> guidelines & >> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 > guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/=20 > welcome.html George Bowering A ne'er-do-well who loves you =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 00:05:51 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: George Bowering Subject: Re: competitions In-Reply-To: <7FB455F9-146D-434B-9A70-51C2D7D5091E@sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed On Aug 9, 2010, at 11:58 PM, George Bowering wrote: > Okay. > "are" is a plural verb. > "a total" is singular. > You're supposed to put a singular with a singular. > For example: "There is a total" > Or "there is a building." > Then you put a plural with a plural. > For example: "there are totals" > Or "there are buildings." > > g > > > On Aug 9, 2010, at 12:46 PM, Angela Vasquez-Giroux wrote: > >> maybe my brain is on hiatus already, but for the life of me, I >> can't figure >> out what's wrong with "there are a total". >> >> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 3:24 PM, George Bowering >> wrote: >> >>> The ad for a competition that you have included says >>> "there are a total" >>> >>> Are we to take it that entrants have to try to achieve that level of >>> English usage? >>> >>> gb >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Aug 7, 2010, at 4:27 PM, michael farrell wrote: >>> >>> a rodeo to an apple bob - this to most poetry comps - >>>> >>>> http://www.nycmidnight.com/2010/FFC/challenge.htm >>>> >>>> one thing i like about many u.s. poetry comps is that they have an >>>> aesthetic context -unlike australia where the pretence is almost >>>> always the >>>> best of the best - it may be acknowledged that different judges >>>> have >>>> different tastes but the blandout conventionalism of the basic >>>> premise is >>>> rarely challenged >>>> >>>> (wasnt going to raise this issue again but provoked by the above >>>> appearing >>>> on my facebook page with the usual suggestion that i 'like' it. >>>> i 'x'ed it, >>>> with the reason 'offensive', but perhaps shdve clicked >>>> 'misleading') >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ================================== >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ >>>> welcome.html >>>> >>> >>> George Bowering >>> >>> Hiyo, Aluminum, away! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines >>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ >> welcome.html > > George Bowering > > > > George Bowering . . . or liver and onions ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 02:10:57 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Obododimma Oha Subject: Vehicle Nicknames as Public Discourse Comments: To: USAAfricaDialogue , ederi , elsalites@yahoogroups.com, "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" , obodooha@yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 "A talking public is very useful to business, and the Nigerian vehicle nickname geniuses are doing a good job in semiotically reinventing the vehicles for the overflooded Nigerian automobile market." Read full text of "Vehicles Nicknames as Public Discourse" at: http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/5604760-182/story.csp -- Obododimma Oha http://udude.wordpress.com/ Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 10:51:27 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: michael farrell Subject: new cordite In-Reply-To: <176671.61399.qm@web36504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable cordite #33: creative commons http://www.cordite.org.au/ = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 14:08:25 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9CDoom_Cusp=E2=80=9D_?= by David Meltzer Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc , Wryting-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is =E2=80=9CDoom Cusp=E2=80=9D by David = Meltzer Description: "Doom Cusp" by David Meltzer is dedicated to the California artist Wallace = Berman who was one of Meltzer's mentors when he became exiled there from Br= ooklyn. Berman's use of the Hebrew alphabet and especially the Aleph in his= collages, reminded Meltzer of the presences of the Holocaust and seemed re= levant today in the midst of another series of Holy Wars and their ultimate= futility. Available as a free ebook here: http://www.lulu.com/product/ebook/doom-cusp/12186424 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 08:35:26 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Angela Vasquez-Giroux Subject: Re: a somewhat silly question. In-Reply-To: <9b2e4b08-7ac4-e1ff-95e8-d3671e9d32c3@me.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, David! The whole process is both overwhelming and exhilarating -- all to have the chance to get the book out. It's a good problem to have, an= d your advice is making it more manageable! On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 10:37 PM, David Seaman wrote: > Congratulations, first of all! > > Formats can vary a l > Dear Angela, > > Congratulations, first of all! > > Formats can vary a lot, but your idea of a poem to a page sounds like a > good standard. Hence, 85 poems? > > David=EF=BB=BF > > David W. Seaman, Ph.D. > http://personal.georgiasouthern.edu/~dseaman/Welcome.html > > Follow my Twitter poetry at dseaman40 > > YouTube video of my Venice Biennale poem: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DJQ5bOuJBN_k > > > > > > > On 06 Aug, 2010,at 04:40 PM, Angela Vasquez-Giroux < > angela.vasquez.giroux@GMAIL.COM> wrote: > > dear poets -- >> >> a press has asked to view my manuscript (yipee!) but, having not been >> published before, i am in need of a bit of guidance. >> >> i'm working in standard MS word. if my press generally publishes books o= f >> between 85-100 pages, how many pages of word doc does that make? >> >> (in my MS, the poems don't share pages) >> >> any help is greatly appreciated! >> >> thanks, >> >> angela >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts Check guidelin= es >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 08:59:40 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: competitions MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit David W. Seaman, Ph.D. http://personal.georgiasouthern.edu/~dseaman/Welcome.html writes: "While those of us in the grammar police (either official or clandestine) like to disparage any errors, we must also recognize that usage is flexible and evolving, It may be that there are myriad ways to express things, with a whole range of 'levels of usage.' Let's live with it and enjoy it." ............................................................................................................ Ummm . . . : "a total" ("a"=singular) "is" (singular) "This place is a total wreck." "totals" (plural) "are" (plural) "Several totals are required to ensure accuracy." The newest proposal for national educational standards in the U. S. recommends teaching grammatical agreement in grade three (the first grammatical principle mentioned in that set of standards). Many of my students in college composition seem unable to distinguish between one and more than one. Perhaps only a tiny neurological window exists for hard-wiring agreement, but given recent work in brain plasticity, I doubt it--though a fourteen-week semester usually proves insufficient for rehab. As Yale grad G. W. Bush wondered, "Is our children learning?" Good enough? Enjoy that? ~ Dan Zimmerman, Ph.D. Dzimmerman@middlesexcc.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela Vasquez-Giroux" To: Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 3:46 PM Subject: Re: competitions > maybe my brain is on hiatus already, but for the life of me, I can't > figure > out what's wrong with "there are a total". > > On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 3:24 PM, George Bowering wrote: > >> The ad for a competition that you have included says >> "there are a total" >> >> Are we to take it that entrants have to try to achieve that level of >> English usage? >> >> gb >> >> >> >> >> On Aug 7, 2010, at 4:27 PM, michael farrell wrote: >> >> a rodeo to an apple bob - this to most poetry comps - >>> >>> http://www.nycmidnight.com/2010/FFC/challenge.htm >>> >>> one thing i like about many u.s. poetry comps is that they have an >>> aesthetic context -unlike australia where the pretence is almost always >>> the >>> best of the best - it may be acknowledged that different judges have >>> different tastes but the blandout conventionalism of the basic premise >>> is >>> rarely challenged >>> >>> (wasnt going to raise this issue again but provoked by the above >>> appearing >>> on my facebook page with the usual suggestion that i 'like' it. i 'x'ed >>> it, >>> with the reason 'offensive', but perhaps shdve clicked 'misleading') >>> >>> >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >> >> George Bowering >> >> Hiyo, Aluminum, away! >> >> >> >> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 10:50:18 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: CA Conrad Subject: Re: John Wieners: HELLO JOHN, from 2010 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Maria, Tenney, and everyone else, thanks. Great news is that there is a COLLECTED WIENERS in the works! How exciting is THAT???? But until then I strongly suggest interlibrary loan is the way to go, unless you can actually afford the prices the thieves trying to cash in on the Wieners legacy by jacking up his out of print stock. It's a great day knowing Wieners will be BACK IN PRINT! Conrad -- PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:32:12 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: competitions In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Total is singular. "There are ten books," but "there is a total of ten= books." At 03:46 PM 8/9/2010, you wrote: >maybe my brain is on hiatus already, but for the life of me, I can't figure >out what's wrong with "there are a total". > >On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 3:24 PM, George Bowering wrote: > > > The ad for a competition that you have included says > > "there are a total" > > > > Are we to take it that entrants have to try to achieve that level of > > English usage? > > > > gb > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 7, 2010, at 4:27 PM, michael farrell wrote: > > > > a rodeo to an apple bob - this to most poetry comps - > >> > >> http://www.nycmidnight.com/2010/FFC/challenge.htm > >> > >> one thing i like about many u.s. poetry comps is that they have an > >> aesthetic context -unlike australia where=20 > the pretence is almost always the > >> best of the best - it may be acknowledged that different judges have > >> different tastes but the blandout conventionalism of the basic premise= is > >> rarely challenged > >> > >> (wasnt going to raise this issue again but provoked by the above= appearing > >> on my facebook page with the usual=20 > suggestion that i 'like' it. i 'x'ed it, > >> with the reason 'offensive', but perhaps shdve clicked 'misleading') > >> > >> > >> > >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > >> guidelines & sub/unsub info:= http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >> > > > > George Bowering > > > > Hiyo, Aluminum, away! > > > > > > > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check= guidelines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept=20 >all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 >http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a=20 lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the=20 poet alive in every sense of the word, and=20 through every one of his senses. Instead of=20 missing a beat or a part, Weiss=92 fragments are=20 like Chekhov=92s short stories=ADthe more that gets=20 left out, the more they seem to contain=85 One can=20 hear echoes from all the various=20 ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its=20 core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment=20 is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure=20 musical threnody=85[it] opens a window, not only=20 into a mind, but a person, a personality, this=20 human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket.=20 http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 15:44:04 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Bonnie MacAllister Subject: Bonnie MacAllister: Crowning the May Queen Comments: To: Nathalie F Anderson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Bonnie MacAllister performs on August 23rd at National Mechanics for the > Fringe Festival Cabaret of a.d. amorosi's Monday Night Club (hosted by > Needles Jones). She will show poetic films and do her deconstructed > performance poetry as well as preview work from her piece in the > Philadelphia Live Arts and Fringe Festival. http://www.nationalmechanics.com/philadelphia-old-city-events Please find the link to MacAllister's show in the Fringe: http://www.livearts-fringe.org/details.cfm?id=3D14009 MacAllister wrote "Crowning the May Queen," one of four shorter works that comprise "The Waiting Room" (a production of Green Light Arts). The piece stars Kelly DeVose and TS Hawkins. "Crowning the May Queen" is deeply rooted in MacAllister's time in Ethiopia on a 2009 Fulbright-Hays. "The Waiting Room" features other short works by local Philadelphia women playwrights including Deborah Leigh Scott, Gabrielle Corsaro, and Vivian Appler. -- http: http://www.greenlightarts.org/ http://www.facebook.com/pages/Green-Light-Arts/300541836284 (Facebook) Green Light Arts develops programs that create opportunities for women artists to have a positive impact on our community. Green Light Arts is committed to its membership. By creating programs including The New Light Series, The Women=92s Art Show, The Fiscal Partners= hip Program and The Emerging Artist Mentorship Program we unite our membership and offer new opportunities for collaboration and multidisciplinary creation. Our Fiscal Partnership program enables members the freedom to bring their artistic vision to life. Green Light Arts supports women artists and believes that our strength lies in our ability to work together and to support each other. -- http://bonnie-macallister.blogspot.com http://tinyurl.com/bonnie-macallister =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:20:33 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: New Narrative In-Reply-To: <20100805.011555.3988.20.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i was just getting used to the old narrative & along comes the Fucking New = =0Anarrative. =0A=0Athe new narrative does nothing to enhance the old narra= tive.=0Ai'm close to giving Up ... on Lit?=0Aon life?=0A=0Ai don't want an= =A0Art that imitates life or a=A0life that imitates Art ... i want to =0Aim= itate myself dreaming.=0ANo, even my dreams have become boring. =0AUgh ...= =0A=0A=A0=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: steve dalachi= nsky =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Wed, Au= gust 4, 2010 3:45:55 PM=0ASubject: Re: New Narrative=0A=0Amake sure those b= ooks don't have bedbugs=0A=0AOn Tue, 3 Aug 2010 14:44:11 -0400 Emma Bolden = =0Awrites:=0A> I think I am going to start a movement= call Old Narrative. It will =0A> involve putting old books in a blender an= d seeing what happens.=0A> =0A> How does the New Narrative relate to New Na= rrativism, I wonder?=0A> =0A> Sent from my iTelephoning Device=0A> =0A> On = Aug 3, 2010, at 12:40 PM, John Cunningham =0A> wrote:=0A> =0A> > Thank you, Christophe. I enjoyed reading your response = even though =0A> it didn't=0A> > enlighten me one little bit. Still, the=A0= humour was entertaining.=0A> > John Herbert Cunningham=0A> > =0A> > -----O= riginal Message-----=0A> > From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) =0A> [mailto:POET= ICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On=0A> > Behalf Of Christophe Casamassima=0A> > S= ent: August-03-10 7:12 AM=0A> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0A> > Subj= ect: Re: New Narrative=0A> > =0A> > It's like old narrative, but newer. Eve= ntually it will get old =0A> and=0A> > become the not so new but not as old= as the old new narrative. My =0A> God,=0A> > a hundred years from now the = Library of Congress system will be=0A> > inundated by huge strings of genre= names.=0A> > =0A> > Christophe "not as old as I was tomorrow" Casamassima= =0A> > =0A> > On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:55 PM, John Cunningham=0A> > wrote:=0A> >> I recently heard about this new liter= ary phenomenon called the =0A> New=0A> >> Narrative. What is this?=0A> >> = =0A> >> John Herbert Cunningham=0A> >> =0A> >> =0A> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=0A> >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts.= Check=0A> > guidelines & sub/unsub info: =0A> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poeti= cs/welcome.html=0A> >> =0A> > =0A> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> > Th= e Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =0A> guideli= nes=0A> > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A>= > =0A> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> > The Poetics List is moderated= & does not accept all posts. Check =0A> guidelines & sub/unsub info: =0A> = http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A> =0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=0A> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check= =0A> guidelines & sub/unsub info: =0A> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welc= ome.html=0A> =0A> =0A=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List i= s moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & =0Asub/unsub in= fo: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 18:37:58 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Aaron Belz Subject: widespread acceptance, please Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain Esteemed all, I am seeking widespread acceptance for my second book, Lovely, Raspberry,= =20 which recently came out from Persea.=20 Toward that end I request that each of us spends 7:20 viewing=20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DIo0nUeDp7Ks Many of those poems are in = the=20 book. If you can identify the video's theme music, I might send you a fr= ee signed=20 copy! Anyway, email me off list and let's reconnect. There's a chance it's been= way too=20 long. Belz =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 03:33:40 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alexander Dickow Subject: ekleksographia: the france issue In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ahadada Books' online journal Ekl= Friends, Strangers and Fellow Poets,=0A=0AAhadada Books' online journal Ekl= eksographia presents =0AWave Three: The France Issue, =0Ahttp://ekleksograp= hia.ahadadabooks.com/france/=0Ain memory of Raymond Federman =0Aand=A0guest= edited by Alexander Dickow, =0A=0Afeaturing original work and translations= by the editor and by=A0=0A=0ABarbara Beck, Philippe Beck, Audrey van de Sa= ndt, Alexis Tchoudnowsky, David =0AChristoffel, Alessandro De Francesco, No= ura Wedell, Jennifer K. Dick, Henri =0ADroguet, Raymond Federman, Pierre Le= Pillou=EBr, Bruno Fern, Fr=E9d=E9ric Forte, =0AMichelle Noteboom, Albane G= ell=E9, Liliane Giraudon, Mark Weiss, Amy Hollowell, =0APierre Joris, Marga= ret Konkol, Nicholas Manning, Elisa McCool, Maria Rusanda =0AMuresan, Jean-= Claude Pinson, Leemore Malka, Jody Pou, Christian Prigent, Rufo =0AQuintava= lle, Joe Ross, James Sacr=E9, David Ball, Alexandra Sashe, Eric Such=E8re, = =0ACarrie Noland, George Vance, Chet Wiener and Geneva Chao,=0A=0AAnd featu= ring these reviews:=0A=0AAdam Biles reviews Napoleon's Travelling Bookshelf= by Sarah Hesketh=0ANicholas Manning reviews Strata by Joe Ross=0AJennifer = K. Dick reviews Kardia by Claude Royet-Journoud=0AMargaret Konkol reviewsWI= W?3: Hold me tight. Make me happy by C. J. Martin=0A=0AWith Thanks to Danie= l Sendecki and Robert Dickow for their technical assistance.=0A=0AThank you= for reading, and for helping us spread the news!=0A=A0=0Awww.alexdickow.ne= t/blog/=0A=0Ales mots! ah quel d=E9sert =E0 la fin=0Amerveilleux. -- Henri = Droguet =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 08:54:53 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nate Pritts Subject: H_NGM_N BKS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Our first book=2C a reissue of William Heyen's LORD DRAGONFLY=2C is availab= le now & here: http://www.h-ngm-n.com/lord-dragonfly The book includes the full text of the original volume with new notes by th= e=20 author=2C a preface by series editor Nate Pritts & a critical=20 appreciation by Matthew Henriksen. In the coming months=2C check back for full-length poetry: WOLF FACE by Matt Hart - October HOW LIKE FOREIGN OBJECTS by Alexis Orgera - November I AM NOT A PIONEER by Adam Fell - February thx=2C np ___________ :: Dr. Nate Pritts =20 :: http://www.natepritts.com =20 = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 14:23:45 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "Belladonna* & Dusie present". Rest of header flushed. From: Cara Benson Subject: Reading Reminder: Belladonna* Dusie Thursday 8pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thursday, August 12, 2010; 8:00 pm=0ABelladonna* & Dusie present=0A=C2=A0= =0AThe Summer Reading=0APlease join us in celebrating these authors and the= ir new books: =0A=C2=A0=0ACara Benson: (made), BookThug=0AMair=C3=A9ad Byrn= e: The Best of (What=E2=80=99s Left of) Heaven, Publishing Genius=0ACarolin= e Crumpacker: Recherche Theories, EtherDome Press=0ASusana Gardner: Herso, = An Heirship in Waves, Black Radish Books=0AEileen Myles: Importance of Bein= g Iceland, Semiotext(e); Inferno, O/R=0AKate Zambreno: O Fallen Angel, Chia= smus Press=0A=C2=A0=0ALocation: Book Thug Nation: 100 N. 3rd St; Between Be= rry St & Wythe Ave; =0AWilliamsbug, Brooklyn=0AAdmission: FREE=C2=A0=0A=C2= =A0=0Ahttp://www.belladonnaseries.org/readingseries.html=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 07:18:05 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gary Sullivan Subject: URL for original poetry comics art Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 7E18) Sent the wrong URL before, sorry. It's at: http://newlifecomic.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:19:23 +0200 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Louis Armand Subject: Hidden Agendas/Unreported Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 A brief note in response to some queries on the UK Poetics list... For anyone here interested in reviewing/ordering _Hidden Agendas/Unreported Poetics_ (published in June), details about the book can be found at litteraria/ff.cuni.cz/hidden_agendas.html. Review editors are welcome to send an email to litteraria@ff.cuni.cz to reserve a copy. Contributors to _HA_ are Ali Alizadeh, Livio Beloi, Jeremy Davies, Stephan Delbos, Michel Delville, Johanna Drucker, Michael Farrel, Allen Fisher, Vincent Katz, Stephen Muecke, Jena Osman, Michael Rothenberg, Lou Rowan, Kyle Schlesinger, Robert Shepperd, Stephanie Strickland, John Wilkinson... This book ISN'T available via Amazon, etc. Best, Louis Armand -- Louis Armand Centre for Critical & Cultural Theory, Philosophy Faculty, Charles University, Nam. J. Palacha 2, 116 38 Praha 1, CZECH REPUBLIC www.louis-armand.com www.litterariapragensia.com www.vlakmagazine.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 09:29:55 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Yunte in NYT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Our good friend Yunte Huang's new book is featured in this morning's New York Times: Charlie Chan: A Stereotype and a HeroBy CHARLES McGRATHPublished: August 10= , 2010 Enlarge This ImageTo many Asian-Americans, Charlie Chan is an offensive stereotype, another sort of Uncle Tom. Chan, the hero of six detective novels by Earl Derr Biggers and 47 Hollywood movies between 1926 and 1949, not to mention a 1970s Hanna-Barbera cartoon series , is pudgy, slant-eyed and inscrutable, and he speaks in singsong fortune-cookie English, saying things like, =93If befriend donkey, expect to be kicked.=94= The California-born author and playwright Frank Chin, who has written essays denouncing Chan, would like to see him disappear altogether. Twentieth Century Fox Home Video Warner Oland as Charlie Chan in the 1935 film =93Charlie Chan in Paris.=94 = More Photos =BB Multimedia Slide Show The 'Real' Charlie Chan Enlarge This Image Ruth Fremson/The New York Times Yunte Huang has written an absorbing history of the legendary Charlie Chan.= More Photos =BB But Yunte Huang, who was born and grew up in China, can=92t get enough of C= han and has written a book about his obsession: =93Charlie Chan: The Untold Sto= ry of the Honorable Detective and His Rendezvous With American History.=94 The book, which comes out from Norton next week, is part memoir, part history, part cultural-studies essay and part grab bag of odd and little-known details. Biggers, who overlapped at Harvard with T. S. Eliot but did not exactly share his literary taste, said he got the idea for Chan while sitting in the New York Public Library in 1924 and reading about a real-life Honolulu detective named Chang Apana. Mr= . Huang suggests that Biggers may have misremembered the details, but there i= s no doubt that Apana was the model for Chan, and Mr. Huang gives a full account of a life that was in many ways more interesting than the fictional version: born in Hawaii to Chinese parents, Apana moved to China and then back to Hawaii, where despite being virtually illiterate, he rose in the detective ranks of the Honolulu police. He wore a cowboy hat, carried a bullwhip and was said to leap from rooftop to rooftop like a human fly. Mr. Huang gives an equally full account of Chan=92s movie history and of the actor with whom he was most memorably associated: a Swede named Warner Oland, who played a Jew in the first talkie, =93The Jazz Singer,=94 = and then, because he had vaguely Asian features, made a specialty of Oriental villains. (The original Chan, George Kuwa, was Japanese.) Oland was a heavy drinker, Mr. Huang writes, and liked to take a nip before slipping into the Chan persona: it slowed down his speech and put a congenial, Chan-like grin on his face. In 1938, after Oland had boozed himself to a premature death and was replaced by an American named Sidney Toler, movie producers encouraged him to try the same trick. But the most interesting story in =93Charlie Chan=94 is Mr. Huang=92s own. = =93I have an alphabetic destiny,=94 he said, laughing, over lunch in Chinatown last week. In the late 1980s he had been a student at Beijing University and, after the protests in Tiananmen Square in 1989, where he would have been on the day tanks opened fire if his parents hadn=92t lured him home on a false pretense, he determined to leave China. He got hold of a guidebook to American colleges, and =93Alabama starts with A,=94 he pointed out. =93I wa= s pretty desperate to get out of the country and the University of Alabama was the first school I looked up.=94 He added that when he got there, =93Tuscal= oosa was another planet,=94 and went on: =93Nobody walked in the street. Everyth= ing was so slow, so clean and so empty.=94 When he got sick of the South, Mr. Huang said, he decided to go to Buffalo for a Ph.D. in English literature. He felt, he writes in =93Charlie Chan,= =94 =93like a bottom-feeding fish, one that cannot see the light of day in the muddy pond of America.=94 But why Buffalo? =93Buffalo begins with B,=94 he said, grinning. He worked = as a delivery boy there, but happily gave up the restaurant business. =93Graduat= e school is really easy compared to restaurant work,=94 he pointed out. At an estate sale he bought a couple of Biggers=92s novels and was immediat= ely hooked. He began renting all the Chan movies he could find. Mr. Huang, who is 41, divorced and the father of a young daughter, speaks nearly perfect, idiomatic English. He learned the language, he said, from listening to Voice of Americabroadcasts with his family and also from going to church in Tuscaloosa. =93On Sunday morning I=92d stand on the corner carrying a Bible,=94 he explained, =93and= people would stop and ask what church I was going to. =91Yours,=92 I=92d say. I sa= w a lot of churches that way.=94 After Buffalo he spent four years teaching literature at Harvard, in Cambridge, Mass., before taking a job at the University of California, Sant= a Barbara, and next year he has a fellowship at Cornell. =93I=92m kind of stuck in the C=92s right now,=94 he said, =93and I can=92t= really move on. =93Charlie Chan =97 that=92s a double C.=94 Chan was an obsession he pursued for years, he said, while trying to write = a memoir called =93The Yellow Alabaman=94 until a friend encouraged him to pu= t that book aside and write instead about the detective. It was the aphorisms= , the fortune-cookie sayings, that first attracted him, and then he became interested in the way Chan is = a projection of American fears and American imaginings about China =97 an embodiment, as he writes in the book, of =93both the racist heritage and th= e creative genius=94 of his adopted nation=92s culture. Over lunch he said: =93I grew up watching Chinese opera, where you have som= e of that same exaggeration, and growing up in that literary culture was very useful for understanding cultural ventriloquism and the whole idea of crossing over. It was fascinating to see how Chan was a sort of =91yellowfa= ce=92 performance.=94 He added that in the 30s the Charlie Chan movies were immensely popular in China, of all places, where they were seen as an antidote to the sinister caricature of the Fu Manchu films, but that attitudes had changed. Not long ago he was discussing with a Chinese publisher the possibility of translating =93Charlie Chan=94 himself and bri= nging it out in China. The publisher listened politely and said, =93Right now we= =92re actually more interested in Fu Manchu.=94 A version of this article appeared in print on August 11, 2010, on page C1 of the New York edition. --=20 Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English 117 Burrowes Building The Pennsylvania State University University Park, PA 16802-6200 aln10@psu.edu sailing the blogosphere at http://heatstrings.blogspot.com "kindling his mind (more than his mind will kindle)" --William Carlos Williams, early adopter =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 13:31:15 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Stratford Park Reading Series: NAKA PIERCE & PUSATERI, Sept. 16th In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Stratford Park Reading Series proudly presents... Michelle Naka Pierce & Chris Pusateri THURSDAY=2C SEPTEMBER 16th at 7:30 p.m. A Donation is requested=97 but All are welcome! A reception will follow the reading. =A7 Address: 3030 O'Neal Parkway=2C Boulder=2C CO http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=3DBoulder&state=3DCO&address=3D3030+O=92n= eal+Parkway&zipcode=3D80301 DIRECTIONS: O=92Neal Parkway is off 30th Street in north Boulder between Valmont & Iris. Turn East at the signs for STRATFORD PARK WEST. The community house is the one-story building with a fence leading down to the street=2C half a block from 30th. Please park ONLY on O=92Neal Parkway=2C O=92Neal Circle=2C or in VISITOR spaces in the Stratford Park We= st lots. Please do not park in any other nearby lots. Thank you. =A7 Born in Tokyo=2C Japan=2C Michelle Naka Pierce is the author of Beloved Int= eger and Tri/via=2C a collaboration with Veronica Corpuz. Excerpts from her= manuscript She=2C A Blueprint for Intersurface=2C with collage art by Sue = Hammond West=2C have been published in American Letters & Commentary=2C Tri= ckhouse=2C Mandorla=2C Foursquare=2C Sous Rature=2C Upstairs at Duroc=2C an= d elsewhere. Pierce spent her sabbatical living in London and working on he= r new manuscript=2C tentatively titled Continuous Frieze Bordering Red=2C w= hich contemplatives Rothko=92s floating borders in relation to unstable cul= tural borders. She is currently an associate professor and director of the = writing center at Naropa University. =A7 Born in the American midwest=2C Chris Pusateri has lived for extended perio= ds in London=2C Mexico City and Kingston=2C Jamaica. He is=20 the author of eight books and chapbooks of poetry=2C most recently Anon (Bl= azeVox=2C 2008) and North of There (Dusie=2C 2007)=2C and his poems=20 and critical prose have appeared in numerous magazines=2C including America= n Letters & Commentary=2C Boston Review=2C Chicago Review=2C Verse=2C and=20 many others. His current manuscript=2C The Liberties=2C was written while = residing in England=2C and takes as its premise the surveillance=20 architecture built into British public life. A librarian by trade=2C he cu= rrently lives in the unincorporated suburban hinterland that divides=20 Denver from Boulder. =A7 UPCOMING EVENTS IN THE STRATFORD PARK READING SERIES November 11th: Matthew Cooperman & Aby Kaupang =A7 If you no longer wish to receive email announcements of upcoming events in the Stratford Park Reading Series=2C please email markducharme@hotmail.com with the subject line "SPRS: REMOVE." = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 20:17:32 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Seaman Subject: Re: competitions In-Reply-To: <15D86E9B-C804-4F56-94D3-F31599BCD823@sfu.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Get a life. D David W. Seaman, Ph.D. http://perso= George,=A0=0A=0AGet a life.=0A=0AD=0ADavid W. Seaman, Ph.D.=0Ahttp://perso= nal.georgiasouthern.edu/~dseaman/Welcome.html=0A=0AFollow my Twitter poetr= y at dseaman40=0A=0AYouTube video of my Venice Biennale poem: =0Ahttp://ww= w.youtube.com/watch?v=3DJQ5bOuJBN_k=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn 10 Aug, 2010,at 03:05= AM, George Bowering wrote:=0A=0AOn Aug 9, 2010, at 11:5= 8 PM, George Bowering wrote:=0A=0A> Okay.=0A> "are" is a plural verb.=0A> = "a total" is singular.=0A> You're supposed to put a singular with a singul= ar.=0A> For example: "There is a total"=0A> Or "there is a building."=0A> = Then you put a plural with a plural.=0A> For example: "there are totals"=0A= > Or "there are buildings."=0A>=0A> g=0A>=0A>=0A> On Aug 9, 2010, at 12:46= PM, Angela Vasquez-Giroux wrote:=0A>=0A>> maybe my brain is on hiatus alr= eady, but for the life of me, I =0A>> can't figure=0A>> out what's wrong w= ith "there are a total".=0A>>=0A>> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 3:24 PM, George = Bowering =0A>> wrote:=0A>>=0A>>> The ad for a competitio= n that you have included says=0A>>> "there are a total"=0A>>>=0A>>> Are we= to take it that entrants have to try to achieve that level of=0A>>> Engli= sh usage?=0A>>>=0A>>> gb=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>> On Aug 7, 2010, at = 4:27 PM, michael farrell wrote:=0A>>>=0A>>> a rodeo to an apple bob - this= to most poetry comps -=0A>>>>=0A>>>> http://www.nycmidnight.com/2010/FFC/= challenge.htm=0A>>>>=0A>>>> one thing i like about many u.s. poetry comps = is that they have an=0A>>>> aesthetic context -unlike australia where the = pretence is almost =0A>>>> always the=0A>>>> best of the best - it may be = acknowledged that different judges =0A>>>> have=0A>>>> different tastes bu= t the blandout conventionalism of the basic =0A>>>> premise is=0A>>>> rare= ly challenged=0A>>>>=0A>>>> (wasnt going to raise this issue again but pro= voked by the above =0A>>>> appearing=0A>>>> on my facebook page with the u= sual suggestion that i 'like' it. =0A>>>> i 'x'ed it,=0A>>>> with the reas= on 'offensive', but perhaps shdve clicked =0A>>>> 'misleading')=0A>>>>=0A>= >>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A>>>> The Poetics List is m= oderated & does not accept all posts. Check=0A>>>> guidelines & sub/unsub = info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ =0A>>>> welcome.html=0A>>>>=0A>>>=0A= >>> George Bowering=0A>>>=0A>>> Hiyo, Aluminum, away!=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A= >>>=0A>>>=0A>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A>>> The Poetics List is moder= ated & does not accept all posts. Check =0A>>> guidelines=0A>>> & sub/unsu= b info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>> =3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept= all posts. Check =0A>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.ed= u/poetics/ =0A>> welcome.html=0A>=0A> George Bowering=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A=0AGeorge Bowering=0A=0A. . . or liver and onions=0A=0A=0A=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does not accept= all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poet= ics/welcome.html=0A= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:27:28 -0500 Reply-To: halvard@gmail.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Halvard Johnson, Obras P=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=FAblicas?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends and Neighbors, Just wanted to let you know that you're one click away from another messy collection by Halvard Johnson. There, I've said it, and here it is-- *Obras P=FAblicas* *https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas= * No extra charge for downloading it, printing it, passing it on. I will have to charge you for deleting or ignoring this message. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D halvard@gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org * * * * * * *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets* http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART= -S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets *Tango Bouquet* https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=3D0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl= =3Den *Theory of Harmony* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=3Dhttp://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04= /theory1.pdf * *Rapsodie espagnole* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=3Dhttp://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsod= i.pdf * * * *The Sonnet Project* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=3Dhttp://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonne= t.pdf * * * * G(e)nome* *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf * =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 21:19:12 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Seaman Subject: Re: competitions In-Reply-To: <212AADFEE42F4319B660687CD760B52D@DF99B291> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Yes, I love it. George W Bush's language gave us a new perspective on the = presidency and the electorate. Not to mention what a Yale education means.= A level of usage, as I suggest.=A0=0A=0ADavid=0ADavid W. Seaman, Ph.D.=0A= http://personal.georgiasouthern.edu/~dseaman/Welcome.html=0A=0AFollow my T= witter poetry at dseaman40=0A=0AYouTube video of my Venice Biennale poem: = =0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DJQ5bOuJBN_k=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn 10 Aug, 2= 010,at 08:59 AM, Daniel Zimmerman wrote:=0A=0ADavid = W. Seaman, Ph.D.=0Ahttp://personal.georgiasouthern.edu/~dseaman/Welcome.ht= ml=0Awrites:=0A"While those of us in the grammar police (either official o= r clandestine)=0Alike to disparage any errors, we must also recognize that= usage is flexible=0Aand evolving, It may be that there are myriad ways to= express things,=0Awith a whole range of 'levels of usage.' Let's live wit= h it and enjoy it."=0A=0A.................................................= ..........................................................=0A=0AUmmm . . = :=0A=0A"a total" ("a"=3Dsingular)=0A"is" (singular)=0A"This place is a t= otal wreck."=0A=0A"totals" (plural)=0A"are" (plural)=0A"Several totals are= required to ensure accuracy."=0A=0AThe newest proposal for national educa= tional standards=0Ain the U. S. recommends teaching grammatical agreement=0A= in grade three (the first grammatical principle mentioned=0Ain that set of= standards). Many of my students in college=0Acomposition seem unable to d= istinguish between one and=0Amore than one. Perhaps only a tiny neurologic= al window=0Aexists for hard-wiring agreement, but given recent work=0Ain b= rain plasticity, I doubt it--though a fourteen-week=0Asemester usually pro= ves insufficient for rehab. As Yale=0Agrad G. W. Bush wondered, "Is our ch= ildren learning?"=0AGood enough? Enjoy that?=0A=0A~ Dan Zimmerman, Ph.D.=0A= Dzimmerman@middlesexcc.edu=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: "= Angela Vasquez-Giroux" =0ATo: =0ASent: Monday, August 09, 2010 3:46 PM=0ASubject: Re:= competitions=0A=0A=0A> maybe my brain is on hiatus already, but for the l= ife of me, I can't =0A> figure=0A> out what's wrong with "there are a tota= l".=0A>=0A> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 3:24 PM, George Bowering wrote:=0A>=0A>> The ad for a competition that you have included says=0A= >> "there are a total"=0A>>=0A>> Are we to take it that entrants have to t= ry to achieve that level of=0A>> English usage?=0A>>=0A>> gb=0A>>=0A>>=0A>= >=0A>>=0A>> On Aug 7, 2010, at 4:27 PM, michael farrell wrote:=0A>>=0A>> a= rodeo to an apple bob - this to most poetry comps -=0A>>>=0A>>> http://ww= w.nycmidnight.com/2010/FFC/challenge.htm=0A>>>=0A>>> one thing i like abou= t many u.s. poetry comps is that they have an=0A>>> aesthetic context -unl= ike australia where the pretence is almost always =0A>>> the=0A>>> best of= the best - it may be acknowledged that different judges have=0A>>> differ= ent tastes but the blandout conventionalism of the basic premise =0A>>> is= =0A>>> rarely challenged=0A>>>=0A>>> (wasnt going to raise this issue agai= n but provoked by the above =0A>>> appearing=0A>>> on my facebook page wit= h the usual suggestion that i 'like' it. i 'x'ed =0A>>> it,=0A>>> with the= reason 'offensive', but perhaps shdve clicked 'misleading')=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A= >>>=0A>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A>>> The Poetics List is moderated &= does not accept all posts. Check=0A>>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http:= //epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>> George Bowering=0A>= >=0A>> Hiyo, Aluminum, away!=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=0A>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all post= s. Check =0A>> guidelines=0A>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/po= etics/welcome.html=0A>>=0A>=0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> The Poeti= cs List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =0A> guidelines & = sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A> =0A=0A=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does not accept al= l posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics= /welcome.html=0A= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 18:08:53 -1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jonathan Morse Subject: Grammar: folk belief vs. poetry In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 8/10/2010 5:32 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Total is singular. "There are ten books," but "there is a total of ten > books." Oh, let's be poetic and LISTEN to the grammar. Consider, for instance, this sensitive passage from Randolph Quirk, Sidney Greenbaum, Geoffrey Leach, and Jan Svartvik, _A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language_ (London: Longman, 1985): "The _there_ of existential sentences . . . often determines concord, governing a singular form of the verb even when the following 'notional subject' is plural: _There's_ some people in the waiting room. occurs alongside: _There are_ some people in the waiting room." (Chapter 18.46, "The status of existential _there_ as subject," p. 1405) The two sentences about people in the waiting room communicate slightly different senses of the word "there," don't they? Training yourself to hear the difference is one of the many things that poetry is good for. So here's an exercise. Can you listen to this example from ch. 18.49, p. 1408, "There exist a number of similar medieval crosses in different parts of the country," and then articulate an explanation of why "There exists a number" would be computer language, not human language? Jonathan Morse > > At 03:46 PM 8/9/2010, you wrote: >> maybe my brain is on hiatus already, but for the life of me, I can't >> figure >> out what's wrong with "there are a total". >> >> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 3:24 PM, George Bowering wrote: >> >> > The ad for a competition that you have included says >> > "there are a total" >> > >> > Are we to take it that entrants have to try to achieve that level of >> > English usage? >> > >> > gb >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Aug 7, 2010, at 4:27 PM, michael farrell wrote: >> > >> > a rodeo to an apple bob - this to most poetry comps - >> >> >> >> http://www.nycmidnight.com/2010/FFC/challenge.htm >> >> >> >> one thing i like about many u.s. poetry comps is that they have an >> >> aesthetic context -unlike australia where the pretence is almost >> always the >> >> best of the best - it may be acknowledged that different judges have >> >> different tastes but the blandout conventionalism of the basic >> premise is >> >> rarely challenged >> >> >> >> (wasnt going to raise this issue again but provoked by the above >> appearing >> >> on my facebook page with the usual suggestion that i 'like' it. i >> 'x'ed it, >> >> with the reason 'offensive', but perhaps shdve clicked 'misleading') >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ================================== >> >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> >> > >> > George Bowering >> > >> > Hiyo, Aluminum, away! >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ================================== >> > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines >> > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. > $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of > particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and > through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, > Weiss’ fragments are like Chekhov’s short stories­the more that gets > left out, the more they seem to contain… One can hear echoes from all > the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is > pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and > bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody…[it] opens a window, not > only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at > the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 00:20:03 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Tony Leuzzi Subject: Looking for someone to review new book of poems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain Hi everyone. If anyone's interested in reviewing Radiant Losses, my new = book=20 of poems from New Sins Press, I'd be glad to send you a review copy. It's= been=20 blurbed by Kevin Killian and Michael Waters--two VERY different poets who= liked=20 the work a lot. Any takers?=20 Tony Leuzzi =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 10:17:32 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: John Wieners: HELLO JOHN, from 2010 In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit That IS great news--and as it should be. Thank you for the Wieners EPC, too. On 8/10/10 10:50 AM, "CA Conrad" wrote: > Maria, Tenney, and everyone else, thanks. > > Great news is that there is a COLLECTED WIENERS in the works! > > How exciting is THAT???? > > But until then I strongly suggest interlibrary loan is the way to go, > unless you can actually afford the prices the thieves trying to cash > in on the Wieners legacy by jacking up his out of print stock. > > It's a great day knowing Wieners will be BACK IN PRINT! > Conrad ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 14:39:24 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nicholas Karavatos Subject: City of Tacoma & Puget Sound Poetry Connection=?Windows-1252?Q?=92s_?= Distinguished Writer Series on Friday the 13th Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 The City of Tacoma & Puget Sound Poetry Connection=92s Distinguished Writer= Series presents poet Nicholas Karavatos and electronic guitarist Jeff Kell= ey performing in spontaneous collaboration at King's Bookshop at 7:000pm on= Friday=2C August 13th. In this inter-media spoken word performance celebrating the publication of = *No Asylum*=2C musician Jeff Kelley processes his pitched signals layering = sound upon sounds in conversation with poet Nicholas Karavatos reciting his= poems. =20 Intermedia Spoken Word with NICHOLAS KARAVATOS & JEFF KELLEY in Tacoma=2C W= A @ King's Bookshop 218 St. Helens Ave. Tacoma=2C WA @=20 7pm - Friday the 13th =20 NICHOLAS KARAVATOS is included in the anthology *Punk Rock Saved My Ass* (U= kiah: Medusa=92s Muse=2C 2010) and the latest issue of *West Wind Review* (= Ashland: University of Southern Oregon=2C 2010). In December 2009=2C Amendm= ent Nine (Arcata) published his first book *No Asylum* http://www.amazon.co= m/dp/0984280006/ref=3Dcm_sw_su_dp =20 David Meltzer writes: "Nicholas Karavatos is a poet of great range and clar= ity. This book is an amazing collectanea of smart sharp political poetry in= tandem with astute and tender love lyrics. All of it voiced with an impres= sive singularity." =20 NICHOLAS KARAVATOS lives near Dubai=2C teaching literature and writing at t= he American University of Sharjah in the United Arab Emirates. He has been = an Assistant Professor there since 2006. From 2001 he had taught general st= udies at a small private college in Muscat=2C Sultanate of Oman. =20 NICHOLAS KARAVATOS is a graduate of Humboldt State University where he earn= ed his B.A. in English with a minor in Art History (1986)=2C and of New Col= lege of California where he earned an M.F.A. in Poetics (1999). =20 Audio Links: http://www.archive.org/details/NicholasKaravatos-2009December2-ArcataTheate= rLoungeCalifornia http://www.archive.org/details/NicholasKaravatos1992September20NorthCountry= FairArcataPlaza http://www.archive.org/details/NicholasKaravatos-200818-AccidentGalleryInEu= rekaCa http://nicholaskaravatos.tumblr.com/ =20 Info Links: http://pugetsoundpoetryconnection.art.officelive.com/default.aspx http://www.facebook.com/pages/Nicholas-Karavatos/253191112780 http://nicholaskaravatos.blogspot.com/ =20 NO ASYLUM is available from these independent booksellers: Arcata=2C CA =96 Northtown Books La Jolla=2C CA =96 D.G. Wills Books Portland=2C OR =96 Powell=92s Books Salem=2C OR =96 Tigress Books San Francisco=2C CA =96 Bird & Beckett San Francisco=2C CA =96 Books & Bookshelves Venice=2C CA =96 Beyond Baroque =20 = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 14:46:43 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nicholas Karavatos Subject: A-New Poetry Series at the Downtown Initiative for the Visual Arts in Eugene, OR on Saturday Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Intermedia Spoken Word with NICHOLAS KARAVATOS & JEFF KELLEY in Eugene=2C O= R =20 and introducing poet TIM SHANER. =20 DIVA Annex (Downtown Initiative for the Visual Arts) 80 E. Broadway Eugene=2C OR =20 A-New Poetry Series at the Downtown Initiative for the Visual Arts presents= poet Nicholas Karavatos and electronic guitarist Jeff Kelley performing in= spontaneous collaboration at DIVA Annex at 7:00pm on Saturday=2C August 14= th. =20 In this inter-media spoken word performance celebrating the publication of = *No Asylum*=2C musician Jeff Kelley processes his pitched signals layering = sound upon sounds in conversation with poet Nicholas Karavatos reciting his= poems. =20 NICHOLAS KARAVATOS is included in the anthology *Punk Rock Saved My Ass* (U= kiah: Medusa=92s Muse=2C 2010) and the latest issue of *West Wind Review* (= Ashland: University of Southern Oregon=2C 2010). In December 2009=2C Amendm= ent Nine (Arcata) published his first book *No Asylum* http://www.amazon.co= m/dp/0984280006/ref=3Dcm_sw_su_dp =20 David Meltzer writes: "Nicholas Karavatos is a poet of great range and clar= ity. This book is an amazing collectanea of smart sharp political poetry in= tandem with astute and tender love lyrics. All of it voiced with an impres= sive singularity." =20 NICHOLAS KARAVATOS lives near Dubai=2C teaching literature and writing at t= he American University of Sharjah in the United Arab Emirates. He has been = an Assistant Professor there since 2006. From 2001 he had taught general st= udies at a small private college in Muscat=2C Sultanate of Oman. =20 NICHOLAS KARAVATOS is a graduate of Humboldt State University where he earn= ed his B.A. in English with a minor in Art History (1986)=2C and of New Col= lege of California where he earned an M.F.A. in Poetics (1999). =20 Audio Links: http://www.archive.org/details/NicholasKaravatos-2009December2-ArcataTheate= rLoungeCalifornia http://www.archive.org/details/NicholasKaravatos1992September20NorthCountry= FairArcataPlaza http://www.archive.org/details/NicholasKaravatos-200818-AccidentGalleryInEu= rekaCa http://nicholaskaravatos.tumblr.com/ =20 Info Links: http://divacenter.org/=20 http://www.facebook.com/pages/Nicholas-Karavatos/253191112780 http://nicholaskaravatos.blogspot.com/ =20 NO ASYLUM is available from these independent booksellers: Arcata=2C CA =96 Northtown Books La Jolla=2C CA =96 D.G. Wills Books Portland=2C OR =96 Powell=92s Books Salem=2C OR =96 Tigress Books San Francisco=2C CA =96 Bird & Beckett San Francisco=2C CA =96 Books & Bookshelves Venice=2C CA =96 Beyond Baroque =20 = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 08:35:35 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "or to send via the internet.=". Rest of header flushed. From: David Baratier Subject: Transcontinental Award, deadline Monday August 16th MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Last day to postmark is Monday August 16th=0Aor to send via the internet.= =0A=0AThe Annual Transcontinental Poetry Award by Pavement Saw Press =0A = =0AAll contributors receive books, chapbooks and journals equal to, or more= than, the entry fee.=0APlease mention this to your friends and all others = who might be interested!=0A =0AElectronic and mailed entries must meet thes= e requirements:=0A1. The manuscript should be at least 48 pages of poetry a= nd no more than 70 pages of poetry in length. Separations between sections = are NOT a part of the page count.=0A2. A one page cover letter. Include a b= rief biography, the book's title, your name, address, and telephone number,= and, if you have e-mail, your e-mail address. This should be followed by a= page which lists publication acknowledgments for the book. For each acknow= ledgement mention the publisher (journal, anthology, chapbook etc.) and the= poem published. =0A3. The manuscript should be bound with a single clip a= nd begin with a title page including the book's title, your name, address, = and telephone number, and, if you have e-mail, your e-mail address. =0A4. T= he second page should have only the title of the manuscript. There are to b= e no acknowledgments or mention of the author's name from this page forward= . Submissions to the contest are blind judged. =0A5. There should be no mor= e than one poem on each page. The manuscript can contain pieces longer than= one page. =0A6. The manuscript should be paginated, beginning with the fir= st page of poetry. =0A =0AEach year Pavement Saw Press will publish at lea= st one book of poetry and/or prose poems from manuscripts received during t= his competition. Selections are chosen through a blind judging process. The= competition is open to anyone who has not previously published a volume of= poetry or prose. The author receives $1000 and five percent of the 1000 co= py press run. Previous judges have included Judith Vollmer, David Bromige, = Bin Ramke and Howard McCord. This year David Baratier will be the judge; pa= st students, Pavement Saw Press interns and employees are not allowed to su= bmit. All poems must be original, all prose must be original, fiction or tr= anslations are not acceptable. Writers who have had volumes of poetry and/o= r prose under 40 pages printed or printed in limited editions of no more th= an 500 copies are eligible. Submissions are accepted during the months of J= une, July, and until August 15th. All submissions must have an August 16th,= 2010, or earlier,=0A postmark. This is an award for first books only.=0A = =0AIf you wish to send via regular mail your manuscript should be accompani= ed by a check in the amount of $20.00 made payable to Pavement Saw Press. A= ll US contributors to the contest will receive books, chapbooks and journal= s equal to, or more than, the entry fee. Add $3 ( US ) for other countries = to cover the extra postal charge. Do not include an SASE for notification o= f results, this information will be sent with the free book. Do not send th= e only copy of your work. All manuscripts are recycled and individual comme= nts on the manuscripts cannot be made.=0A =0AIf you wish to submit electron= ically, you should send $27.00 via paypal to info@pavementsaw.org. We will = then send you an e-mail confirmation as well as where to e-mail the manuscr= ipt. Electronic submissions need to be sent as PDF files or as word (.doc, = .docx) files. Other formats are not accepted. The extra cost is to cover th= e paypal fees as well as the time, labor, ink, and so on, to print out your= manuscript. In addition to the prize winner, sometimes another anonymous m= anuscript is chosen, if enough entries arrive. This =E2=80=9Ceditors choice= =E2=80=9D manuscript will be published under a standard royalty contract. A= decision will be reached in November. Entries should be sent to:=0A =0APav= ement Saw Press=0ATranscontinental Award Entry=0A321 Empire Street =0AMontp= elier, OH 43543=0A =0AAll submissions must have an August 16th, or earlier,= postmark or paypal payment.=0ASubmissions are accepted during the months o= f June, July, and August only.=0AIf you have questions, please ask us: info= (at)pavementsaw.org=0A=0A=0ABe well=0A=0ADavid Baratier, Editor=0A=0APaveme= nt Saw Press=0A321 Empire Street=0AMontpelier OH 43543=0Ahttp://pavementsaw= .org=0A=0ASubscribe to our e-mail listserv at=0Ahttp://pavementsaw.org/list= /?p=3Dsubscribe&id=3D1=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:26:44 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Forwarded article below on the Mosque controversies (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII; FORMAT=flowed I just have to say I'm ashamed of this country, and scared - too much hatred against illegal immigrants (WHICH WE ALL ARE), and now Islam. Some of the protests are all too familiar Kristallnacht in tone - on Jon Stewart, there was a newsclip of a community going to burn a copy of the Koran on 9/11. I can't argue this with anyone - I'm horrified and brought to tears by it. And we can't sit by and let a rabid racist right grow in this country - the affects have been seen repeatedly worldwide. - Alan ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:20:36 From: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: No Reply To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com Subject: [evol-psych] Digest Number 7327 There are 6 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. News: Orangutan pantomime ~ elaborating the message From: Robert Karl Stonjek 2a. Re: Holistic Darwinism: The new evolutionary paradigm and some impli From: Mike Tintner 2b. Re: Holistic Darwinism: The new evolutionary paradigm and some impli From: Steve Moxon 3. Bonobos and chimps From: mark hubey 4. The Rise of America's Idiot Culture From: ED 5. 8 Percent of U.S. Births to Illegal Immigrants From: R A Fonda Messages ________________________________________________________________________ 1. News: Orangutan pantomime ~ elaborating the message Posted by: "Robert Karl Stonjek" stonjek@ozemail.com.au rk_stonjek Date: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:07 am ((PDT)) Orangutan pantomime: elaborating the message Anne Russon1 and Kristin Andrews2 1Psychology Department, Glendon College, 2275 Bayview Avenue, Toronto, Ontario, Canada M4N 3M6 2Philosophy Department, York University, 4700 Keele St Toronto, Ontario, Canada M3J 1P3 *Author for correspondence (arusson@gl.yorku.ca). Abstract We present an exploratory study of forest-living orangutan pantomiming, i.e. gesturing in which they act out their meaning, focusing on its occurrence, communicative functions, and complexities. Studies show that captive great apes may elaborate messages if communication fails, and isolated reports suggest that great apes occasionally pantomime. We predicted forest-living orangutans would pantomime spontaneously to communicate, especially to elaborate after communication failures. Mining existing databases on free-ranging rehabilitant orangutans' behaviour identified 18 salient pantomimes. These pantomimes most often functioned as elaborations of failed requests, but also as deceptions and declaratives. Complexities identified include multimodality, re-enactments of past events and several features of language (productivity, compositionality, systematicity). These findings confirm that free-ranging rehabilitant orangutans pantomime and use pantomime to elaborate on their mess ages. Further, they use pantomime for multiple functions and create complex pantomimes that can express propositionally structured content. Thus, orangutan pantomime serves as a medium for communication, not a particular function. Mining cases of complex great ape communication originally reported in functional terms may then yield more evidence of pantomime. Source: The Royal Society http://rsbl.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2010/08/05/rsbl.2010.0564.abstract?papetoc Posted by Robert Karl Stonjek Messages in this topic (1) ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ 4. The Rise of America's Idiot Culture Posted by: "ED" seacrofter001@yahoo.com seacrofter001 Date: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:59 am ((PDT)) August 12, 2010 The Rise of America's Idiot Culture The Muslim Community Center at Ground Zero: a Manufactured Controversy By ANTHONY DiMAGGIO A substantial racist uproar is taking place in conservative America, particularly in right-wing radio and television. Reactionary pundits are drawing increased attention to plans to build an Islamic community center in downtown Manhattan, near Ground Zero. Republicans and conservatives have long been known to harbor racist views of Islam, although they're hardly alone in this. Many on the right frame the entire religion as radical, fundamentalist, and a threat to national security. In light of this pattern, there's little surprising about the right's most recent attack on Muslim Americans as a secret, under the radar threat. Islam has at times been portrayed on the right as the bedrock threat to American cultural values, and Muslims are depicted as uni-dimensionally set on overthrowing Christianity, enslaving the American public, and imposing "Sharia law." The last warning about "Sharia law" ? repeated by pundits like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh ? among many others ? comes off as extremely ignorant, considering that the term "Sharia" itself means Islamic law. One should take the warnings of those who use the phrase "Sharia law" about as seriously as someone who masquerades as a legal scholar while talking about the importance of "American law law." The American right has also taken to paranoid conspiracy theories charging that Obama is a non-citizen. As the story goes, Obama was really born in Kenya, and his "take over" of the White House represents a secret victory for radical Islam, since, as we all "know," Obama is a closet Muslim terrorist who is allied with Osama bin Laden and other radical Islamists. About half of Republicans believe either that Obama is not a citizen or that they cannot be sure of whether he is really an American citizen or not. These views are shared by nearly 60 percent of self-designated Tea Party supporters. Of course, the nuances of the Islamic faith and the mainstream nature of the American Muslim community - the vast majority who oppose terrorism, fundamentalism, or repression of women - have been completely lost in the smug arrogance and incompetence of racists on the right. The reactionary right has long been opposed to anything related to Arab culture and the Muslim religion in New York and around the country. One infamous example is New York's Khalil Gibran Arabic language academy, the first of its kind for the city. Rabid right-wingers railed against it, especially those in the "stop the Madrassa" campaign (many of whom worried about the dangers of "Madrassa schools," while apparently too ignorant to realize that the word Madrassa itself means school). I argued with one of the leaders of this group on Alan Colmes' radio show a few years ago. She seemed un-phased by the reality that there was never any concrete evidence that the Khalil Gibran academy was teaching Islamic values. As she announced on the show (despite my scorn for her comments), the very fact that there was no visible evidence of an Islamic curriculum was proof of just how good the schools' administrators and teachers were of hiding it. Such paranoia demonstrated how far conservative extremism and racism have come in recent years. This brings us to the most recent "controversy" related to Islam: the Muslim community center planned for Manhattan. Right wingers in radio and at Fox News have gone into overdrive attacking it as a fundamental threat to the American way of life and to American security. Their racist diatribes have been hard for me to listen to, but they remain important to address, if for no other reason than so we can fight the ignorant assumptions behind them head on. Here's a quick review of some of the most outrageous comments made in the American media: - On Fox News, former Congressman Newt Gingrich attacked the community center for its planned location "right at the edge of a place where, let's be clear, thousands of Americans were killed in an attack by radical Islamists." On his website, Gingrich announced that "there should be no mosque near ground zero in New York so long as there are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia." Gingrich's choice to spotlight the radical fundamentalist regime of Saudi Arabia (hypocritically supported by Gingrich himself when he was Speaker of the House in the 1990s) ? while neglecting moderate and secular governments in the Muslim world, speaks volumes about what he considers to be the "essence" of Islam. Gingrich's language is truly abhorrent; he frames those supporting the community center in Manhattan as part of the same "they" as the Islamic fundamentalists who perpetrated the 9-11 attacks. As far as Gingrich is concerned, there are no distinctions to be made in the monolithic "threat" that is the entire U.S. and world Muslim community. - On Fox, Sarah Palin drew attention to "those innocent victims, those families of those who were killed in the 9-11 tragedy, it saddens me to think that people don't understand what building this mosque at such hallowed ground really represents." Inextricably linked to Palin's warnings is the assumption that the community center represents a single, overarching fifth column threat from American Muslims. This much was clear when she characterized its construction as "an unnecessary provocation" against the people of New York and the American people more generally. - Fox News host Sean Hannity claimed that the "Iman" supporting the building of the community center is a figure who "supports what happened on 9/11" and "praises Osama bin Laden." Hannity, of course, failed to present any evidence linking community center supporters to defending the 9/11 attacks, but this hardly seemed to matter to him or his guest, Jay Seculow (of the American Center for Law and Justice), who complained that "you don't get to build a mosque on a site that's part of ground zero" because "that would be like putting at Pearl Harbor a monument of the Kamikaze pilots who tried to destroy U.S. troops, you just don't do that." In this case, Muslim Americans who had nothing to do with 9/11 are apparently the equivalent of Japanese soldiers who killed Americans during World War II. - Right wing radio icon Rush Limbaugh, not to be outdone, warned that "the terrorists win" if the community center successfully moves forward. Limbaugh continued, posing a hypothetical comparing Muslim Americans to those who lynched blacks in the post Civil War era: "Let me ask you: What would happen, do you think, if the Ku Klux Klan wanted to establish a memorial at Gettysburg?" Limbaugh also employed a World War II analogy, likening the dangers of the community center to the destruction brought upon Japan by U.S. nuclear weapons: "Let's go to Hiroshima and Nagasaki and let's build giant monuments in the shape of nuclear bombs and call it the Manhattan Project. I mean you'd have Americans objecting to that, wouldn't you?" What is most disturbing about the manufactured controversy involving the community center is the blatant arrogance and stupidity of the right in its warnings of an imminent "threat." Anyone who spends thirty seconds researching the Cordoba Group, the organization responsible for promoting the community center, would know that the group's representative, Feisal Abdul Rauf (targeted in Hannity attacks as pro-bin Laden and pro-9/11) is actually a public critic of Osama bin Laden and the 9/11 attacks, and a vocal supporter of improving relations between the U.S. and the Muslim world. None of this is conveyed in any of the right-wing slander above, however, as these pundits are content to showcase their ignorance regarding the basic facts surrounding the community center fiasco they "authoritatively" "report" on. I should note that all of the pundits above premise their attacks on the Manhattan community center with statements that promotion of religious tolerance and cultural diversity are important and necessary. These claims, however, mean nothing when they are followed by fear mongering and attacks on Muslims as part of an all-encompassing threat that derives from some sort of uniform "Muslim culture" ? one that is seen as constituting a danger to U.S. security and the American way of life. These pundits refuse to distinguish between the tiny minority of those throughout the world who support terrorism in the name of Islam and the vast majority of Muslims who reject those beliefs. Their reluctance to take a reasonable, level-headed approach to the study of the Muslim faith is an indicator of their fanaticism, religious bigotry, and racism. Rather than asking whether the Manhattan community center represents a threat, we should be asking ourselves what happened to our country when national discourse is hijacked by those who not only have no interest in facts, but see them as an active roadblock to advancing their racist agendas. The blatant racism and incompetence of those attacking the Manhattan community center should be obvious enough to those who pride themselves in promoting multi-culturalism, racial diversity, and respect for religious freedom. That the racist right remains so prominent in national television and radio is a sign, more than anything else, of the steep deterioration of American political discourse. Anthony DiMaggio is the editor of media-ocracy (www.media-ocracy.com ), a daily online magazine devoted to the study of media, public opinion, and current events. He has taught U.S. and Global Politics at Illinois State University and North Central College, and is the author of When Media Goes to War (2010) and Mass Media, Mass Propaganda (2008). He can be reached at: mediaocracy@gmail.com http://www.counterpunch.org/dimaggio08122010.html Messages in this topic (1) ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ 5. 8 Percent of U.S. Births to Illegal Immigrants Posted by: "R A Fonda" rafonda@verizon.net rafonda2000 Date: Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:01 am ((PDT)) Study: 8 Percent of U.S. Births to Illegal Immigrants Pew Hispanic Center Report Sheds Light on Americans at Center of Birthright Citizenship Debate By DEVIN DWYER *WASHINGTON, August 11, 2010---* Eight percent of all babies born in the U.S. in 2008 belonged to illegal immigrant parents, according to a groundbreaking analysis of U.S. Census Bureau data by the Pew Hispanic Center. Under the 14th amendment to the Constitution, each child obtained U.S. citizenship at birth while one or both of the parents remained undocumented. The study sheds new light on a group of Americans at the center of a hot political debate in recent weeks. Some Republican lawmakers have proposed revising birthright citizenship to bar U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants from obtaining legal status. Pew estimates 340,000 of the 4.3 million newborns in U.S. hospitals in 2008 belonged to illegal immigrant parents. In total, 4 million U.S.-born, citizen children of illegal immigrants currently live in the country, according to the study. The study is the most comprehensive, non-partisan research to date on children of illegal immigrants living in the U.S. and adds important context, and frames the ongoing debate. Previously there have been few reliable estimates of annual U.S. births to illegal immigrants. Critics of birthright citizenship have expressed concern over the burgeoning size of America's illegal immigrant population, estimated at 10.8 million and whose offspring in the U.S. would be able to sponsor their parents and relatives for legal residency. The children are sometimes referred to as anchor babies. "Birthright citizenship I think is a mistake," said Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina. "We should change our Constitution and say if you come here illegally and you have a child, that child's automatically not a citizen." Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and other leading Republicans, including Arizona senators Jon Kyl and John McCain, have indicated an openness to exploring the 14th Amendment issue raised by Sen. Graham. But some harbor deep reservations about changing the Constitution. "It's a rather unseemly business and I think we ought to have some hearings about it," McConnell said of the practice of illegal immigrant mothers giving birth in the U.S. "Congressional hearings are always warranted when members of Congress raise the issue of amending our Constitution," said McCain in a statement. "I believe that the Constitution is a strong, complete and carefully crafted document that has successfully governed our nation for centuries and any proposal to amend the Constitution should receive extensive and thoughtful consideration." Birthright Citizenship Debate: Election Year Politics? But some lawmakers are calling the push to revise the 14th Amendment nothing but a political stunt. "I think it's good to take a look at all of our constitutional amendments. But I'll tell you something: if you think it's a coincidence that this sudden discussion begins three months before an election, you'd be very, very mistaken," said Vermont Independent Sen. Bernie Sanders on ABC's "Top Line" . Pennsylvannia Democratic Sen. Arlen Specter, whose parents were immigrants to the U.S., has called U.S. citizenship by birth a fundamental right. "The political pandering on the immigration issue has reached the hysterical level," Specter told ABC News. "To try to direct the effort at the children born in this country is just preposterous... How can newborn children protect themselves if politicians want to gain political gain... I would be shocked if this idea would gain political traction, but I'm being shocked on a daily basis by the United States Senate." History of Birthright and the 14th Amendment The 14th Amendment to the Constitution, which was enacted after the Civil War to grant citizenship to descendants of slaves, reads: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside." "The drafter of the 14th Amendment provision on citizenship did make a statement that it would not include foreigners or aliens," said George Washington University constitutional law professor Jonathan Turley. "However, other senators made it clear that they believed that this provision guaranteed birthright citizenship." The courts have repeatedly ruled that people who are born in the U.S. are American citizens and if Congress passed a law changing that, it would likely be repealed, experts say. The Supreme Court has only addressed the issue once, clarifying in 1898 that citizenship does apply to U.S.-born children of legal immigrants who have yet to become citizens. "The legislative history may be a little mixed, but the language of the amendment seems to speak clearly in favor of birthright citizenship, regardless of what the intent may have been," Turley said. The United States is one of the few remaining countries to grant citizenship to all children born on its soil. The United Kingdom, Ireland, India and Australia, among others, have since revised their birthright laws, no longer allowing every child born on their soil to get citizenship. Messages in this topic (1) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evolutionary-psychology/ <*> Your email settings: Digest Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evolutionary-psychology/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: evolutionary-psychology-normal@yahoogroups.com evolutionary-psychology-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: evolutionary-psychology-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 18:36:46 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: Looking for someone to review new book of poems In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What journal do you have in mind for the review? (I am interested.) Mary Kasimor --- On Wed, 8/11/10, Tony Leuzzi wrote: From: Tony Leuzzi Subject: Looking for someone to review new book of poems To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 11:20 PM Hi everyone.=A0 If anyone's interested in reviewing Radiant Losses, my new = book=20 of poems from New Sins Press, I'd be glad to send you a review copy. It's b= een=20 blurbed by Kevin Killian and Michael Waters--two VERY different poets who l= iked=20 the work a lot.=A0 Any takers?=20 Tony Leuzzi =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 18:39:01 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: Grammar: folk belief vs. poetry In-Reply-To: <4C6373D5.5080009@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable love it! Mary --- On Wed, 8/11/10, Jonathan Morse wrote: From: Jonathan Morse Subject: Grammar: folk belief vs. poetry To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 11:08 PM On 8/10/2010 5:32 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Total is singular. "There are ten books," but "there is a total of ten bo= oks." Oh, let's be poetic and LISTEN to the grammar. Consider, for instance, this= sensitive passage from Randolph Quirk, Sidney Greenbaum, Geoffrey Leach, a= nd Jan Svartvik, _A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language_ (London:= Longman, 1985): "The _there_ of existential sentences . . . often determines concord, gover= ning a singular form of the verb even when the following 'notional subject'= is plural: _There's_ some people in the waiting room. occurs alongside: _There are_ some people in the waiting room." (Chapter 18.46, "The status of existential _there_ as subject," p. 1405) The two sentences about people in the waiting room communicate slightly dif= ferent senses of the word "there," don't they? Training yourself to hear th= e difference is one of the many things that poetry is good for. So here's an exercise. Can you listen to this example from ch. 18.49, p. 14= 08, "There exist a number of similar medieval crosses in different parts of= the country," and then articulate an explanation of why "There exists a nu= mber" would be computer language, not human language? Jonathan Morse >=20 > At 03:46 PM 8/9/2010, you wrote: >> maybe my brain is on hiatus already, but for the life of me, I can't fig= ure >> out what's wrong with "there are a total". >>=20 >> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 3:24 PM, George Bowering wrote: >>=20 >> > The ad for a competition that you have included says >> > "there are a total" >> > >> > Are we to take it that entrants have to try to achieve that level of >> > English usage? >> > >> > gb >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Aug 7, 2010, at 4:27 PM, michael farrell wrote: >> > >> > a rodeo to an apple bob - this to most poetry comps - >> >> >> >> http://www.nycmidnight.com/2010/FFC/challenge.htm >> >> >> >> one thing i like about many u.s. poetry comps is that they have an >> >> aesthetic context -unlike australia where the pretence is almost alwa= ys the >> >> best of the best - it may be acknowledged that different judges have >> >> different tastes but the blandout conventionalism of the basic premis= e is >> >> rarely challenged >> >> >> >> (wasnt going to raise this issue again but provoked by the above appe= aring >> >> on my facebook page with the usual suggestion that i 'like' it. i 'x'= ed it, >> >> with the reason 'offensive', but perhaps shdve clicked 'misleading') >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.h= tml >> >> >> > >> > George Bowering >> > >> > Hiyo, Aluminum, away! >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guide= lines >> > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideli= nes & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 >=20 >=20 > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. > $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm >=20 >=20 > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of pa= rticulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through e= very one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss=E2=80=99= fragments are like Chekhov=E2=80=99s short stories=C2=ADthe more that gets= left out, the more they seem to contain=E2=80=A6 One can hear echoes from = all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pu= re Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear= , a pure musical threnody=E2=80=A6[it] opens a window, not only into a mind= , but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of= the poem." >=20 > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephen= s.shtml >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:44:09 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeff Davis Subject: Re: John Wieners: HELLO JOHN, from 2010 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Any more information you could give us about the COLLECTED WIENERS, CA? Jeff On the web at http://naturespoetry.blogspot.com On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Ruth Lepson wrote: > That IS great news--and as it should be. Thank you for the Wieners EPC, too. > > > On 8/10/10 10:50 AM, "CA Conrad" wrote: > >> Maria, Tenney, and everyone else, thanks. >> >> Great news is that there is a COLLECTED WIENERS in the works! >> >> How exciting is THAT???? >> >> But until then I strongly suggest interlibrary loan is the way to go, >> unless you can actually afford the prices the thieves trying to cash >> in on the Wieners legacy by jacking up his out of print stock. >> >> It's a great day knowing Wieners will be BACK IN PRINT! >> Conrad > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:12:15 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: does anyone Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable know how to get in touch with Linda Bukowski? A former student of mine has done some settings of Bukowski & can=B9t find her to get permission. Many thanks for backchanneling me. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 13:17:48 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: End Times (Green) poetics, or Adopt A Gringo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Been talking with my Green Party D.C. friends. It really does seem as if the End has finally arrived and will be unfolding in many interesting ways as the 1st decade of century 21 comes to a close. I mean, even the Rich are no longer getting richer. It's that bad. & the enviroment, as everyone knows, is a cesspool. So I'm wondering: Where are the sustainable communities? Artist, especially, should think very hard. I haven't done the research, but I wonder if there's a Native American Tribe that has an Adopt a Gringo program. I've been rereading my Wendell Berry and I'm almost certain (I'm not good with absolutes) that the original natives of this country will have a huge leg up when things finally collapse.Run ... to the woods ... or someplace safe. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:23:14 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: peter ganick Subject: new text and art book by Peter Ganick Comments: To: Theory and Writing , spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, fluxlist@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 *IMMEDIACY *is a new book by Peter Ganick, published by *white sky books.* It consists of an 81 page book-length text and numerous full-color full-page abstract paintings. http://www.lulu.com/content/9170135 An inexpensive Download will be available by 9pm Eastern Daylight Time today. Thank you. Check out the generous *Preview* to view some of the text and paintings. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 13:22:20 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: Grammar: folk belief vs. poetry In-Reply-To: <4C6373D5.5080009@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Soon we'll be in 5th grade again, diagraming sentences. The nuns taught me = ... & =0Athat's where it all went wrong.=0A=0A=0A__________________________= ______=0AFrom: Jonathan Morse =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.= BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Thu, August 12, 2010 12:08:53 AM=0ASubject: Grammar: fo= lk belief vs. poetry=0A=0AOn 8/10/2010 5:32 AM, Mark Weiss wrote:=0A> Total= is singular. "There are ten books," but "there is a total of ten books."= =0AOh, let's be poetic and LISTEN to the grammar. Consider, for instance, t= his =0Asensitive passage from Randolph Quirk, Sidney Greenbaum, Geoffrey Le= ach, and Jan =0ASvartvik, _A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language_= (London: Longman, =0A1985):=0A=0A"The _there_ of existential sentences . .= . often determines concord, governing =0Aa singular form of the verb even = when the following 'notional subject' is =0Aplural:=0A=0A_There's_ some peo= ple in the waiting room. =0A=0Aoccurs alongside:=0A=0A_There are_= some people in the waiting room."=0A=0A(Chapter 18.46, "The status of exis= tential _there_ as subject," p. 1405)=0A=0AThe two sentences about people i= n the waiting room communicate slightly =0Adifferent senses of the word "th= ere," don't they? Training yourself to hear the =0Adifference is one of the= many things that poetry is good for.=0A=0ASo here's an exercise. Can you l= isten to this example from ch. 18.49, p. 1408, =0A"There exist a number of = similar medieval crosses in different parts of the =0Acountry," and then ar= ticulate an explanation of why "There exists a number" =0Awould be computer= language, not human language?=0A=0AJonathan Morse=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A>= =0A> At 03:46 PM 8/9/2010, you wrote:=0A>> maybe my brain is on hiatus alr= eady, but for the life of me, I can't figure=0A>> out what's wrong with "th= ere are a total".=0A>> =0A>> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 3:24 PM, George Bowerin= g wrote:=0A>> =0A>> > The ad for a competition that you h= ave included says=0A>> > "there are a total"=0A>> >=0A>> > Are we to take i= t that entrants have to try to achieve that level of=0A>> > English usage?= =0A>> >=0A>> > gb=0A>> >=0A>> >=0A>> >=0A>> >=0A>> > On Aug 7, 2010, at 4:2= 7 PM, michael farrell wrote:=0A>> >=0A>> > a rodeo to an apple bob - this t= o most poetry comps -=0A>> >>=0A>> >> http://www.nycmidnight.com/2010/FFC/c= hallenge.htm=0A>> >>=0A>> >> one thing i like about many u.s. poetry comps = is that they have an=0A>> >> aesthetic context -unlike australia where the = pretence is almost always =0Athe=0A>> >> best of the best - it may be ackno= wledged that different judges have=0A>> >> different tastes but the blandou= t conventionalism of the basic premise is=0A>> >> rarely challenged=0A>> >>= =0A>> >> (wasnt going to raise this issue again but provoked by the above a= ppearing=0A>> >> on my facebook page with the usual suggestion that i 'like= ' it. i 'x'ed =0Ait,=0A>> >> with the reason 'offensive', but perhaps shdve= clicked 'misleading')=0A>> >>=0A>> >>=0A>> >>=0A>> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=0A>> >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts= . Check=0A>> >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics= /welcome.html=0A>> >>=0A>> >=0A>> > George Bowering=0A>> >=0A>> > Hiyo, Alu= minum, away!=0A>> >=0A>> >=0A>> >=0A>> >=0A>> >=0A>> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=0A>> > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts.= Check guidelines=0A>> > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/w= elcome.html=0A>> >=0A>> =0A>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A>> The Poetics = List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & =0A>>sub/= unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> = New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape.=0A> $16. Order from http://w= ww.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm=0A> =0A> =0A> "What a beautiful set of circumst= ances! What a lovely concatenation of =0A>particulars. Here is the poet ali= ve in every sense of the word, and through =0A>every one of his senses. Ins= tead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss=E2=80=99 fragments =0A>are like Che= khov=E2=80=99s short stories=C2=ADthe more that gets left out, the more the= y seem =0A>to contain=E2=80=A6 One can hear echoes from all the various anc= estors...[but] the =0A>voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. = His use of the fragment is =0A>both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure mu= sical threnody=E2=80=A6[it] opens a window, =0A>not only into a mind, but a= person, a personality, this human figure at the =0A>emotional center of th= e poem."=0A> =0A> M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. =0A>http://jacketmagazine.com/4= 0/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml=0A> =0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> The = Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & = =0A>sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A> =0A=0A= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does not acce= pt all posts. Check guidelines & =0Asub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/= poetics/welcome.html=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 20:51:57 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: competitions In-Reply-To: <212AADFEE42F4319B660687CD760B52D@DF99B291> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You must be totaled to be accurate. Is that like being 98.6% loaded? > Date: Tue=2C 10 Aug 2010 08:59:40 -0400 > From: urthona@VERIZON.NET > Subject: Re: competitions > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 > David W. Seaman=2C Ph.D. > http://personal.georgiasouthern.edu/~dseaman/Welcome.html > writes: > "While those of us in the grammar police (either official or clandestine) > like to disparage any errors=2C we must also recognize that usage is flex= ible > and evolving=2C It may be that there are myriad ways to express things=2C > with a whole range of 'levels of usage.' Let's live with it and enjoy it.= " >=20 > .........................................................................= ................................... >=20 > Ummm . . . : >=20 > "a total" ("a"=3Dsingular) > "is" (singular) > "This place is a total wreck." >=20 > "totals" (plural) > "are" (plural) > "Several totals are required to ensure accuracy." >=20 > The newest proposal for national educational standards > in the U. S. recommends teaching grammatical agreement > in grade three (the first grammatical principle mentioned > in that set of standards). Many of my students in college > composition seem unable to distinguish between one and > more than one. Perhaps only a tiny neurological window > exists for hard-wiring agreement=2C but given recent work > in brain plasticity=2C I doubt it--though a fourteen-week > semester usually proves insufficient for rehab. As Yale > grad G. W. Bush wondered=2C "Is our children learning?" > Good enough? Enjoy that? >=20 > ~ Dan Zimmerman=2C Ph.D. > Dzimmerman@middlesexcc.edu >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "Angela Vasquez-Giroux" > To: > Sent: Monday=2C August 09=2C 2010 3:46 PM > Subject: Re: competitions >=20 >=20 > > maybe my brain is on hiatus already=2C but for the life of me=2C I can'= t=20 > > figure > > out what's wrong with "there are a total". > > > > On Mon=2C Aug 9=2C 2010 at 3:24 PM=2C George Bowering = wrote: > > > >> The ad for a competition that you have included says > >> "there are a total" > >> > >> Are we to take it that entrants have to try to achieve that level of > >> English usage? > >> > >> gb > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Aug 7=2C 2010=2C at 4:27 PM=2C michael farrell wrote: > >> > >> a rodeo to an apple bob - this to most poetry comps - > >>> > >>> http://www.nycmidnight.com/2010/FFC/challenge.htm > >>> > >>> one thing i like about many u.s. poetry comps is that they have an > >>> aesthetic context -unlike australia where the pretence is almost alwa= ys=20 > >>> the > >>> best of the best - it may be acknowledged that different judges have > >>> different tastes but the blandout conventionalism of the basic premis= e=20 > >>> is > >>> rarely challenged > >>> > >>> (wasnt going to raise this issue again but provoked by the above=20 > >>> appearing > >>> on my facebook page with the usual suggestion that i 'like' it. i 'x'= ed=20 > >>> it=2C > >>> with the reason 'offensive'=2C but perhaps shdve clicked 'misleading'= ) > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.h= tml > >>> > >> > >> George Bowering > >> > >> Hiyo=2C Aluminum=2C away! > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check=20 > >> guidelines > >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >> > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check=20 > > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.htm= l > >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:32:58 -0700 Reply-To: Laurie Schneider & Crag Hill Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Laurie Schneider & Crag Hill Subject: mIEKAL aND, James Yeary, Crag Hill, reading at Avol's Books (Madison), Monday August 16, 7 p.m. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Avol's Books 315 W. Gorham Madison ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:19:55 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Fwd: Call for Participants | Listeners Project @ Hyde Park Art Center (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 13:39:56 From: Judd Morrissey To: Judd Morrissey Subject: Fwd: Call for Participants | Listeners Project @ Hyde Park Art Center Dear friends / colleagues, I am forwarding a call from Chris Cuellar, a Chicago-based artist working within conceptual and digital poetics (and recent grad of our MFA Writing program). Feel free to contact him and please pass along to other artists, friends, students, etc. in your communities who might be interested. very best to all Judd From: chris.israel.cuellar@gmail.com Subject: Fwd: Call for Participants | Listeners Project @ Hyde Park Art Center Below is an official call for participants for a current project for the fall. I know that all of you have many, many interesting contacts both far and wide, and would be extremely grateful if you could forward to any potentially interested parties. Please note that this call is for remote performances (meaning they can happen almost anywhere, though time zone differences are always pesky). ***************************** LISTENERS PROJECT 2010 Call for Participants In conjunction with the Hyde Park Art Center's Ground Floor exhibition, The Listeners is a sound project that uses audio streaming technologies to investigate the increasingly ubiquitous phenomenon of telepresence, a form of liveness often associated with notions of network culture or ambient awareness. The project space within the gallery consists of two primary elements: a recording station and a listening station. Ambient sound from the recording station will be streamed over the internet to a performer in a remote location, who will simply listen to the incoming audio stream. The performer's directive is to listen and verbally describe everything that he or she is hearing, while also streaming this verbal description back to the gallery in real-time. The recording station inside the gallery will be fully accessible to viewers, who, intentionally or not, will contribute audio content to the outgoing stream. The listening station, however, will only be accessible to a single viewer at a time, via one pair of headphones placed in a close enough proximity to the recording station, where the viewer will be able to listen to the performer's incoming verbal description of the nearby sonic environment. The material requirements necessary to perform this piece are minimal: a computer, a microphone (most computers now have these built-in) and a steady internet connection. All performers will receive step-by-step setup instructions; no special technical experience is required. The show will run from August 29 - October 31, 2010; with a listening performance running from 1pm-5pm, once per day, seven days a week. I would like to have enough performers enlisted such that all participants would perform no more than two times. If you are interested in participating: please contact me at chris.israel.cuellar@gmail.com Chris Cuellar [logo.gif] ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 23:24:20 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: competitions In-Reply-To: <6e13683f-8437-6226-b640-dd8bc2d9f33a@me.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Yes, I love it. George W Bush's language gave us a new perspective on the > presidency and the electorate. Not to mention what a Yale education means. > A level of usage, as I suggest. > David what is of value? my mom passed away two years ago. i'm living in the house i inherited from my parents. forty years of stuff in the house. have to get rid of a lot of stuff. she liked her china. it was of great value to her. but it isn't worth much anymore. cuz you can't put it in the dishwasher or the microwave oven. so young people don't want it very badly. and her mink coat. that was of great value to her. but nobody wants them anymore cuz they're beacons of barbarism. and the books. can barely give them away, around here. she also placed value on proper grammar. to be able to speak properly and write properly. that too is changing, the value of such things. the idea of such things. not because of george bush, so much, as the international dimensions of contemporary communications and also the lack of intense concentration on grammar as a high priority in education. many of us correspond and/or speak regularly with people whose first language is not english. if they are generous enough to speak english with us, do we really want to demand 'proper english' from them? particularly if we cannot speak their language? i don't think so. we have more important things to deal with. ja http://vispo.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:57:49 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: cris cheek Subject: Re: {spam?} Forwarded article below on the Mosque controversies (fwd) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I couldn't agree more about the morbidity of the mosque debates Alan and by the statement that we are all immigrants i do not however think it is the sole purview of the "right" to generate paranoia and hate speech (bearing in mind that "left" and "right" are also troubling formulations with troubled histories) i've not seen Obama want to take down the fence with Mexico started under the odious Bush in the south west (for example . . . he sent more troops no less) nor actually close down Guantanamo (for example . . . all empty rhetoric for 18 months already now) nor do anything but escalate the war in Afghanistan (for example . . . although i guess that's not surprising since Democrat presidents have taken the US to war far more eagerly and frequently throughout the twentieth century than even their Republican counterparts . . . unless my math is just wrong, in the guise of the world's police . . . vomit) nor repeal the Patriot Act (for example . . . an act of insanity by GW Bush against which there was so much derision focussed when i first came to live here in the US and which Obama has re-ratified) nor address the hideous Department of Homeland Security . . . ( a militarization of the State that builds inexorably on surveillance and controls brought in my that arch Big Brother sap J Edgar Hoover . . .) . . . and then which judge made a serious move on Prop 8 just a couple of weeks ago . . . a libertarian-leaning freedom of speech judge appointed by Ronald Reagan . . (what is Obama doing to end Reagan's appallingly debilitating and outright destructive War on Drugs?? btw) attacks on the "right" by the "left" appear just as driven by paranoia and characterized by stereotypical terms and forms of abuse as attacks on the "left" by the "right" it is as often unions who campaign against immigration on the grounds of competition for their members jobs and a previous wave of immigrants which tries to block the next as it is nationalists and xenophobes weaving their racist sentiments into planning and zoning debates and whipping up fearful sentiment a pox on both Democrats and on Republicans xx cris On Aug 12, 2010, at 4:26 PM, Alan Sondheim wrote: > I just have to say I'm ashamed of this country, and scared - too much > hatred against illegal immigrants (WHICH WE ALL ARE), and now > Islam. Some > of the protests are all too familiar Kristallnacht in tone - on Jon > Stewart, there was a newsclip of a community going to burn a copy > of the > Koran on 9/11. > > I can't argue this with anyone - I'm horrified and brought to tears > by it. > And we can't sit by and let a rabid racist right grow in this > country - > the affects have been seen repeatedly worldwide. > > - Alan > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:20:36 > From: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com > Reply-To: No Reply > To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [evol-psych] Digest Number 7327 > > There are 6 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. News: Orangutan pantomime ~ elaborating the message > From: Robert Karl Stonjek > > 2a. Re: Holistic Darwinism: The new evolutionary paradigm and some > impli > From: Mike Tintner > 2b. Re: Holistic Darwinism: The new evolutionary paradigm and some > impli > From: Steve Moxon > > 3. Bonobos and chimps > From: mark hubey > > 4. The Rise of America's Idiot Culture > From: ED > > 5. 8 Percent of U.S. Births to Illegal Immigrants > From: R A Fonda > > > Messages > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > 1. News: Orangutan pantomime ~ elaborating the message > Posted by: "Robert Karl Stonjek" stonjek@ozemail.com.au > rk_stonjek > Date: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:07 am ((PDT)) > > Orangutan pantomime: elaborating the message > Anne Russon1 and Kristin Andrews2 > > 1Psychology Department, Glendon College, 2275 Bayview Avenue, > Toronto, Ontario, > Canada M4N 3M6 > 2Philosophy Department, York University, 4700 Keele St Toronto, > Ontario, Canada > M3J 1P3 > > *Author for correspondence (arusson@gl.yorku.ca). > Abstract > We present an exploratory study of forest-living orangutan > pantomiming, i.e. > gesturing in which they act out their meaning, focusing on its > occurrence, > communicative functions, and complexities. Studies show that > captive great apes > may elaborate messages if communication fails, and isolated reports > suggest > that great apes occasionally pantomime. We predicted forest-living > orangutans > would pantomime spontaneously to communicate, especially to > elaborate after > communication failures. Mining existing databases on free-ranging > rehabilitant > orangutans' behaviour identified 18 salient pantomimes. These > pantomimes most > often functioned as elaborations of failed requests, but also as > deceptions and > declaratives. Complexities identified include multimodality, re- > enactments of > past events and several features of language (productivity, > compositionality, > systematicity). These findings confirm that free-ranging rehabilitant > orangutans pantomime and use pantomime to elaborate on their mess > ages. Further, they use pantomime for multiple functions and create > complex > pantomimes that can express propositionally structured content. > Thus, orangutan > pantomime serves as a medium for communication, not a particular > function. > Mining cases of complex great ape communication originally reported in > functional terms may then yield more evidence of pantomime. > > Source: The Royal Society > http://rsbl.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2010/08/05/ > rsbl.2010.0564.abstract?papetoc > > Posted by > Robert Karl Stonjek > > > > > Messages in this topic (1) > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > 4. The Rise of America's Idiot Culture > Posted by: "ED" seacrofter001@yahoo.com seacrofter001 > Date: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:59 am ((PDT)) > > > > > August 12, 2010 > The Rise of America's Idiot Culture The Muslim Community Center at > Ground Zero: a Manufactured Controversy > By ANTHONY DiMAGGIO > > A substantial racist uproar is taking place in conservative America, > particularly in right-wing radio and television. Reactionary pundits > are drawing increased attention to plans to build an Islamic community > center in downtown Manhattan, near Ground Zero. Republicans and > conservatives have long been known to harbor racist views of Islam, > although they're hardly alone in this. Many on the right frame the > entire religion as radical, fundamentalist, and a threat to national > security. In light of this pattern, there's little surprising about > the right's most recent attack on Muslim Americans as a secret, > under the radar threat. > > Islam has at times been portrayed on the right as the bedrock > threat to > American cultural values, and Muslims are depicted as uni- > dimensionally > set on overthrowing Christianity, enslaving the American public, and > imposing "Sharia law." The last warning about "Sharia > law" ? repeated by pundits like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh > ? among many others ? comes off as extremely ignorant, > considering that the term "Sharia" itself means Islamic law. > One should take the warnings of those who use the phrase "Sharia > law" about as seriously as someone who masquerades as a legal > scholar while talking about the importance of "American law > law." > > The American right has also taken to paranoid conspiracy theories > charging that Obama is a non-citizen. As the story goes, Obama was > really born in Kenya, and his "take over" of the White House > represents a secret victory for radical Islam, since, as we all > "know," Obama is a closet Muslim terrorist who is allied with > Osama bin Laden and other radical Islamists. About half of > Republicans > believe either that Obama is not a citizen or that they cannot be sure > of whether he is really an American citizen or not. These views are > shared by nearly 60 percent of self-designated Tea Party supporters. > > Of course, the nuances of the Islamic faith and the mainstream > nature of > the American Muslim community - the vast majority who oppose > terrorism, > fundamentalism, or repression of women - have been completely lost in > the smug arrogance and incompetence of racists on the right. > > The reactionary right has long been opposed to anything related to > Arab > culture and the Muslim religion in New York and around the > country. One > infamous example is New York's Khalil Gibran Arabic language > academy, the first of its kind for the city. Rabid right-wingers > railed > against it, especially those in the "stop the Madrassa" campaign > (many of whom worried about the dangers of "Madrassa schools," > while apparently too ignorant to realize that the word Madrassa itself > means school). I argued with one of the leaders of this group on Alan > Colmes' radio show a few years ago. She seemed un-phased by the > reality that there was never any concrete evidence that the Khalil > Gibran academy was teaching Islamic values. As she announced on the > show (despite my scorn for her comments), the very fact that there was > no visible evidence of an Islamic curriculum was proof of just how > good > the schools' administrators and teachers were of hiding it. Such > paranoia demonstrated how far conservative extremism and racism have > come in recent years. > > This brings us to the most recent "controversy" related to > Islam: the Muslim community center planned for Manhattan. Right > wingers > in radio and at Fox News have gone into overdrive attacking it as a > fundamental threat to the American way of life and to American > security. > Their racist diatribes have been hard for me to listen to, but they > remain important to address, if for no other reason than so we can > fight > the ignorant assumptions behind them head on. > > Here's a quick review of some of the most outrageous comments made > in the American media: > > - On Fox News, former Congressman Newt Gingrich attacked the community > center for its planned location "right at the edge of a place where, > let's be clear, thousands of Americans were killed in an attack by > radical Islamists." On his website, Gingrich announced that > "there should be no mosque near ground zero in New York so long as > there are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia." > Gingrich's choice to spotlight the radical fundamentalist regime of > Saudi Arabia (hypocritically supported by Gingrich himself when he was > Speaker of the House in the 1990s) ? while neglecting moderate and > secular governments in the Muslim world, speaks volumes about what he > considers to be the "essence" of Islam. Gingrich's language > is truly abhorrent; he frames those supporting the community center in > Manhattan as part of the same "they" as the Islamic > fundamentalists who perpetrated the 9-11 attacks. As far as > Gingrich is > concerned, there are no distinctions to be made in the monolithic > "threat" that is the entire U.S. and world Muslim community. > > - On Fox, Sarah Palin drew attention to "those innocent victims, > those families of those who were killed in the 9-11 tragedy, it > saddens > me to think that people don't understand what building this mosque > at such hallowed ground really represents." Inextricably linked to > Palin's warnings is the assumption that the community center > represents a single, overarching fifth column threat from American > Muslims. This much was clear when she characterized its construction > as "an unnecessary provocation" against the people of New York > and the American people more generally. > > - Fox News host Sean Hannity claimed that the "Iman" supporting > the building of the community center is a figure who "supports what > happened on 9/11" and "praises Osama bin Laden." Hannity, > of course, failed to present any evidence linking community center > supporters to defending the 9/11 attacks, but this hardly seemed to > matter to him or his guest, Jay Seculow (of the American Center for > Law > and Justice), who complained that "you don't get to build a > mosque on a site that's part of ground zero" because "that > would be like putting at Pearl Harbor a monument of the Kamikaze > pilots > who tried to destroy U.S. troops, you just don't do that." In > this case, Muslim Americans who had nothing to do with 9/11 are > apparently the equivalent of Japanese soldiers who killed Americans > during World War II. > > - Right wing radio icon Rush Limbaugh, not to be outdone, warned that > "the terrorists win" if the community center successfully moves > forward. Limbaugh continued, posing a hypothetical comparing Muslim > Americans to those who lynched blacks in the post Civil War era: > "Let me ask you: What would happen, do you think, if the Ku Klux > Klan wanted to establish a memorial at Gettysburg?" Limbaugh also > employed a World War II analogy, likening the dangers of the community > center to the destruction brought upon Japan by U.S. nuclear weapons: > "Let's go to Hiroshima and Nagasaki and let's build giant > monuments in the shape of nuclear bombs and call it the Manhattan > Project. I mean you'd have Americans objecting to that, > wouldn't you?" > > What is most disturbing about the manufactured controversy > involving the > community center is the blatant arrogance and stupidity of the > right in > its warnings of an imminent "threat." Anyone who spends thirty > seconds researching the Cordoba Group, the organization responsible > for > promoting the community center, would know that the group's > representative, Feisal Abdul Rauf (targeted in Hannity attacks as > pro-bin Laden and pro-9/11) is actually a public critic of Osama bin > Laden and the 9/11 attacks, and a vocal supporter of improving > relations > between the U.S. and the Muslim world. None of this is conveyed in > any > of the right-wing slander above, however, as these pundits are content > to showcase their ignorance regarding the basic facts surrounding the > community center fiasco they "authoritatively" "report" > on. > > I should note that all of the pundits above premise their attacks > on the > Manhattan community center with statements that promotion of religious > tolerance and cultural diversity are important and necessary. These > claims, however, mean nothing when they are followed by fear mongering > and attacks on Muslims as part of an all-encompassing threat that > derives from some sort of uniform "Muslim culture" ? one > that is seen as constituting a danger to U.S. security and the > American > way of life. These pundits refuse to distinguish between the tiny > minority of those throughout the world who support terrorism in the > name > of Islam and the vast majority of Muslims who reject those beliefs. > Their reluctance to take a reasonable, level-headed approach to the > study of the Muslim faith is an indicator of their fanaticism, > religious > bigotry, and racism. > > Rather than asking whether the Manhattan community center represents a > threat, we should be asking ourselves what happened to our country > when > national discourse is hijacked by those who not only have no > interest in > facts, but see them as an active roadblock to advancing their racist > agendas. The blatant racism and incompetence of those attacking the > Manhattan community center should be obvious enough to those who pride > themselves in promoting multi-culturalism, racial diversity, and > respect > for religious freedom. That the racist right remains so prominent in > national television and radio is a sign, more than anything else, > of the > steep deterioration of American political discourse. > > Anthony DiMaggio is the editor of media-ocracy (www.media-ocracy.com > ), a daily online magazine devoted > to the > study of media, public opinion, and current events. He has taught > U.S. > and Global Politics at Illinois State University and North Central > College, and is the author of When Media Goes to War > > (2010) and Mass Media, Mass Propaganda > > (2008). He can be reached at: mediaocracy@gmail.com > > > http://www.counterpunch.org/dimaggio08122010.html > > > > > > > > > Messages in this topic (1) > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > 5. 8 Percent of U.S. Births to Illegal Immigrants > Posted by: "R A Fonda" rafonda@verizon.net rafonda2000 > Date: Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:01 am ((PDT)) > > > Study: 8 Percent of U.S. Births to Illegal Immigrants > > > Pew Hispanic Center Report Sheds Light on Americans at > Center of > Birthright Citizenship Debate > > > By DEVIN DWYER > > *WASHINGTON, August 11, 2010---* > > Eight percent of all babies born in the U.S. in 2008 belonged to > illegal > immigrant > america-shadows-abc-news-special-series/story?id=11099873> > parents, according to a groundbreaking analysis of U.S. Census Bureau > data by the Pew Hispanic Center. Under the 14th amendment to the > Constitution, each child obtained U.S. citizenship at birth while > one or > both of the parents remained undocumented. > > The study > sheds > new light on a group of Americans at the center of a hot political > debate > amendment-republican-senators-explore-change/story?id=11313973> > in recent weeks. Some Republican lawmakers have proposed revising > birthright citizenship to bar U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants > from obtaining legal status. > > Pew estimates 340,000 of the 4.3 million newborns in U.S. hospitals in > 2008 belonged to illegal immigrant parents. In total, 4 million > U.S.-born, citizen children of illegal immigrants > citizenship-abroad/story?id=10359956> > currently live in the country, according to the study. > > The study is the most comprehensive, non-partisan research to date on > children of illegal immigrants living in the U.S. and adds important > context, and frames the ongoing debate. Previously there have been few > reliable estimates of annual U.S. births to illegal immigrants. > > Critics of birthright citizenship > tourism/story?id=11322850&page=1> > have expressed concern over the burgeoning size of America's illegal > immigrant > abc-news-special-series/story?id=11099873> > population, estimated at 10.8 million and whose offspring in the U.S. > would be able to sponsor their parents and relatives for legal > residency. The children are sometimes referred to as anchor babies. > > "Birthright citizenship I think is a mistake," said Republican Sen. > Lindsey Graham of South Carolina. "We should change our > Constitution and > say if you come here illegally and you have a child, that child's > automatically not a citizen." > > Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and other leading Republicans, > including Arizona senators Jon Kyl and John McCain, have indicated an > openness to exploring the 14th Amendment issue raised by Sen. Graham. > But some harbor deep reservations about changing the Constitution. > > "It's a rather unseemly business and I think we ought to have some > hearings about it," McConnell said of the practice of illegal > immigrant > mothers giving birth in the U.S. > > "Congressional hearings are always warranted when members of Congress > raise the issue of amending our Constitution," said McCain in a > statement. "I believe that the Constitution is a strong, complete and > carefully crafted document that has successfully governed our > nation for > centuries and any proposal to amend the Constitution should receive > extensive and thoughtful consideration." > > > Birthright Citizenship Debate: Election Year Politics? > > But some lawmakers are calling the push to revise the 14th Amendment > nothing but a political stunt. > > "I think it's good to take a look at all of our constitutional > amendments. But I'll tell you something: if you think it's a > coincidence > that this sudden discussion begins three months before an election, > you'd be very, very mistaken," said Vermont Independent Sen. Bernie > Sanders on ABC's "Top Line" > percent-political-11314073>. > > > Pennsylvannia Democratic Sen. Arlen Specter, whose parents were > immigrants to the U.S., has called U.S. citizenship by birth a > fundamental right. > > "The political pandering on the immigration issue has reached the > hysterical level," Specter told ABC News. "To try to direct the effort > at the children born in this country is just preposterous... How can > newborn children protect themselves if politicians want to gain > political gain... I would be shocked if this idea would gain political > traction, but I'm being shocked on a daily basis by the United States > Senate." > > > History of Birthright and the 14th Amendment > > The 14th Amendment to the Constitution, which was enacted after the > Civil War to grant citizenship to descendants of slaves, reads: "All > persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the > jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the > state > wherein they reside." > > "The drafter of the 14th Amendment provision on citizenship did make a > statement that it would not include foreigners or aliens," said George > Washington University constitutional law professor Jonathan Turley. > "However, other senators made it clear that they believed that this > provision guaranteed birthright citizenship." > > The courts have repeatedly ruled that people who are born in the U.S. > are American citizens and if Congress passed a law changing that, it > would likely be repealed, experts say. > > The Supreme Court has > only addressed the issue once, clarifying in 1898 that citizenship > does > apply to U.S.-born children of legal immigrants who have yet to become > citizens. > > "The legislative history may be a little mixed, but the language of > the > amendment seems to speak clearly in favor of birthright citizenship, > regardless of what the intent may have been," Turley said. > > The United States is one of the few remaining countries to grant > citizenship to all children born on its soil. The United Kingdom, > Ireland, India and Australia, among others, have since revised their > birthright laws, no longer allowing every child born on their soil to > get citizenship. > > > > > > Messages in this topic (1) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evolutionary-psychology/ > > <*> Your email settings: > Digest Email | Traditional > > <*> To change settings online go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evolutionary-psychology/join > (Yahoo! ID required) > > <*> To change settings via email: > evolutionary-psychology-normal@yahoogroups.com > evolutionary-psychology-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > evolutionary-psychology-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ > welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:09:46 -0700 Reply-To: Laurie Schneider & Crag Hill Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Laurie Schneider & Crag Hill Subject: Nico Vassilakis, James Yeary, Crag Hill, reading at Myopic Books (Chicago), Tuesday August 17, 7 p.m. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Myopic Books 1564 N. Milwaukee Chicago (773)862-4882 James Yeary is a poet and visual/performance artist living in Portland, Oregon. He is a member of the Spare Room collective for whom he recently organized a festival of poetry for multiple voices. He is publisher of the chapbook series c_L books and is co-author (with Nate Orton) of the zine series my day. His work has appeared in ditch, Peaches & Bats, and SHIFTER. Crag Hill until recently edited SCORE, one of only two journals dedicated exclusively to concrete/visual poetry. In the last three decades his work has appeared in over 100 journals and anthologies, including several available on-line. with Nico Vassilakis, he is editing the first major anthology of visual poetry, The Last Vispo anthology, due out this fall. His creative and critical works in progress can be found at http://scorecard.typepad.com. Nico Vassilakis is a multimedia artist, poet and writer. He was a curator for the Subtext Reading Series in Seattle. His visual poetry videos have been shown at festivals and exhibitions of innovative language arts. Vassilakis’ writings have appeared in numerous magazines, including: Ribot, Caliban, Aufgabe, Chain, Talisman, Central Park and Golden Handcuffs Review. His latest publications are TEXT LOSES TIME, a Vispo essay staReduction from BookThug, Disparate Magnets and Protracted Type, a collection of visual poetry, and recently, West of Dodge. Along with Crag Hill, Nico is currently editing The Last Vispo Anthology with 130 contributors from 25 countries ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 14:11:45 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: cris cheek Subject: Re: {spam?} Forwarded article below on the Mosque controversies (fwd) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hey Alan, case in point: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10969738 xx cris On Aug 12, 2010, at 4:26 PM, Alan Sondheim wrote: > I just have to say I'm ashamed of this country, and scared - too much > hatred against illegal immigrants (WHICH WE ALL ARE), and now > Islam. Some > of the protests are all too familiar Kristallnacht in tone - on Jon > Stewart, there was a newsclip of a community going to burn a copy > of the > Koran on 9/11. > > I can't argue this with anyone - I'm horrified and brought to tears > by it. > And we can't sit by and let a rabid racist right grow in this > country - > the affects have been seen repeatedly worldwide. > > - Alan > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:20:36 > From: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com > Reply-To: No Reply > To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [evol-psych] Digest Number 7327 > > There are 6 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. News: Orangutan pantomime ~ elaborating the message > From: Robert Karl Stonjek > > 2a. Re: Holistic Darwinism: The new evolutionary paradigm and some > impli > From: Mike Tintner > 2b. Re: Holistic Darwinism: The new evolutionary paradigm and some > impli > From: Steve Moxon > > 3. Bonobos and chimps > From: mark hubey > > 4. The Rise of America's Idiot Culture > From: ED > > 5. 8 Percent of U.S. Births to Illegal Immigrants > From: R A Fonda > > > Messages > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > 1. News: Orangutan pantomime ~ elaborating the message > Posted by: "Robert Karl Stonjek" stonjek@ozemail.com.au > rk_stonjek > Date: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:07 am ((PDT)) > > Orangutan pantomime: elaborating the message > Anne Russon1 and Kristin Andrews2 > > 1Psychology Department, Glendon College, 2275 Bayview Avenue, > Toronto, Ontario, > Canada M4N 3M6 > 2Philosophy Department, York University, 4700 Keele St Toronto, > Ontario, Canada > M3J 1P3 > > *Author for correspondence (arusson@gl.yorku.ca). > Abstract > We present an exploratory study of forest-living orangutan > pantomiming, i.e. > gesturing in which they act out their meaning, focusing on its > occurrence, > communicative functions, and complexities. Studies show that > captive great apes > may elaborate messages if communication fails, and isolated reports > suggest > that great apes occasionally pantomime. We predicted forest-living > orangutans > would pantomime spontaneously to communicate, especially to > elaborate after > communication failures. Mining existing databases on free-ranging > rehabilitant > orangutans' behaviour identified 18 salient pantomimes. These > pantomimes most > often functioned as elaborations of failed requests, but also as > deceptions and > declaratives. Complexities identified include multimodality, re- > enactments of > past events and several features of language (productivity, > compositionality, > systematicity). These findings confirm that free-ranging rehabilitant > orangutans pantomime and use pantomime to elaborate on their mess > ages. Further, they use pantomime for multiple functions and create > complex > pantomimes that can express propositionally structured content. > Thus, orangutan > pantomime serves as a medium for communication, not a particular > function. > Mining cases of complex great ape communication originally reported in > functional terms may then yield more evidence of pantomime. > > Source: The Royal Society > http://rsbl.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2010/08/05/ > rsbl.2010.0564.abstract?papetoc > > Posted by > Robert Karl Stonjek > > > > > Messages in this topic (1) > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > 4. The Rise of America's Idiot Culture > Posted by: "ED" seacrofter001@yahoo.com seacrofter001 > Date: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:59 am ((PDT)) > > > > > August 12, 2010 > The Rise of America's Idiot Culture The Muslim Community Center at > Ground Zero: a Manufactured Controversy > By ANTHONY DiMAGGIO > > A substantial racist uproar is taking place in conservative America, > particularly in right-wing radio and television. Reactionary pundits > are drawing increased attention to plans to build an Islamic community > center in downtown Manhattan, near Ground Zero. Republicans and > conservatives have long been known to harbor racist views of Islam, > although they're hardly alone in this. Many on the right frame the > entire religion as radical, fundamentalist, and a threat to national > security. In light of this pattern, there's little surprising about > the right's most recent attack on Muslim Americans as a secret, > under the radar threat. > > Islam has at times been portrayed on the right as the bedrock > threat to > American cultural values, and Muslims are depicted as uni- > dimensionally > set on overthrowing Christianity, enslaving the American public, and > imposing "Sharia law." The last warning about "Sharia > law" ? repeated by pundits like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh > ? among many others ? comes off as extremely ignorant, > considering that the term "Sharia" itself means Islamic law. > One should take the warnings of those who use the phrase "Sharia > law" about as seriously as someone who masquerades as a legal > scholar while talking about the importance of "American law > law." > > The American right has also taken to paranoid conspiracy theories > charging that Obama is a non-citizen. As the story goes, Obama was > really born in Kenya, and his "take over" of the White House > represents a secret victory for radical Islam, since, as we all > "know," Obama is a closet Muslim terrorist who is allied with > Osama bin Laden and other radical Islamists. About half of > Republicans > believe either that Obama is not a citizen or that they cannot be sure > of whether he is really an American citizen or not. These views are > shared by nearly 60 percent of self-designated Tea Party supporters. > > Of course, the nuances of the Islamic faith and the mainstream > nature of > the American Muslim community - the vast majority who oppose > terrorism, > fundamentalism, or repression of women - have been completely lost in > the smug arrogance and incompetence of racists on the right. > > The reactionary right has long been opposed to anything related to > Arab > culture and the Muslim religion in New York and around the > country. One > infamous example is New York's Khalil Gibran Arabic language > academy, the first of its kind for the city. Rabid right-wingers > railed > against it, especially those in the "stop the Madrassa" campaign > (many of whom worried about the dangers of "Madrassa schools," > while apparently too ignorant to realize that the word Madrassa itself > means school). I argued with one of the leaders of this group on Alan > Colmes' radio show a few years ago. She seemed un-phased by the > reality that there was never any concrete evidence that the Khalil > Gibran academy was teaching Islamic values. As she announced on the > show (despite my scorn for her comments), the very fact that there was > no visible evidence of an Islamic curriculum was proof of just how > good > the schools' administrators and teachers were of hiding it. Such > paranoia demonstrated how far conservative extremism and racism have > come in recent years. > > This brings us to the most recent "controversy" related to > Islam: the Muslim community center planned for Manhattan. Right > wingers > in radio and at Fox News have gone into overdrive attacking it as a > fundamental threat to the American way of life and to American > security. > Their racist diatribes have been hard for me to listen to, but they > remain important to address, if for no other reason than so we can > fight > the ignorant assumptions behind them head on. > > Here's a quick review of some of the most outrageous comments made > in the American media: > > - On Fox News, former Congressman Newt Gingrich attacked the community > center for its planned location "right at the edge of a place where, > let's be clear, thousands of Americans were killed in an attack by > radical Islamists." On his website, Gingrich announced that > "there should be no mosque near ground zero in New York so long as > there are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia." > Gingrich's choice to spotlight the radical fundamentalist regime of > Saudi Arabia (hypocritically supported by Gingrich himself when he was > Speaker of the House in the 1990s) ? while neglecting moderate and > secular governments in the Muslim world, speaks volumes about what he > considers to be the "essence" of Islam. Gingrich's language > is truly abhorrent; he frames those supporting the community center in > Manhattan as part of the same "they" as the Islamic > fundamentalists who perpetrated the 9-11 attacks. As far as > Gingrich is > concerned, there are no distinctions to be made in the monolithic > "threat" that is the entire U.S. and world Muslim community. > > - On Fox, Sarah Palin drew attention to "those innocent victims, > those families of those who were killed in the 9-11 tragedy, it > saddens > me to think that people don't understand what building this mosque > at such hallowed ground really represents." Inextricably linked to > Palin's warnings is the assumption that the community center > represents a single, overarching fifth column threat from American > Muslims. This much was clear when she characterized its construction > as "an unnecessary provocation" against the people of New York > and the American people more generally. > > - Fox News host Sean Hannity claimed that the "Iman" supporting > the building of the community center is a figure who "supports what > happened on 9/11" and "praises Osama bin Laden." Hannity, > of course, failed to present any evidence linking community center > supporters to defending the 9/11 attacks, but this hardly seemed to > matter to him or his guest, Jay Seculow (of the American Center for > Law > and Justice), who complained that "you don't get to build a > mosque on a site that's part of ground zero" because "that > would be like putting at Pearl Harbor a monument of the Kamikaze > pilots > who tried to destroy U.S. troops, you just don't do that." In > this case, Muslim Americans who had nothing to do with 9/11 are > apparently the equivalent of Japanese soldiers who killed Americans > during World War II. > > - Right wing radio icon Rush Limbaugh, not to be outdone, warned that > "the terrorists win" if the community center successfully moves > forward. Limbaugh continued, posing a hypothetical comparing Muslim > Americans to those who lynched blacks in the post Civil War era: > "Let me ask you: What would happen, do you think, if the Ku Klux > Klan wanted to establish a memorial at Gettysburg?" Limbaugh also > employed a World War II analogy, likening the dangers of the community > center to the destruction brought upon Japan by U.S. nuclear weapons: > "Let's go to Hiroshima and Nagasaki and let's build giant > monuments in the shape of nuclear bombs and call it the Manhattan > Project. I mean you'd have Americans objecting to that, > wouldn't you?" > > What is most disturbing about the manufactured controversy > involving the > community center is the blatant arrogance and stupidity of the > right in > its warnings of an imminent "threat." Anyone who spends thirty > seconds researching the Cordoba Group, the organization responsible > for > promoting the community center, would know that the group's > representative, Feisal Abdul Rauf (targeted in Hannity attacks as > pro-bin Laden and pro-9/11) is actually a public critic of Osama bin > Laden and the 9/11 attacks, and a vocal supporter of improving > relations > between the U.S. and the Muslim world. None of this is conveyed in > any > of the right-wing slander above, however, as these pundits are content > to showcase their ignorance regarding the basic facts surrounding the > community center fiasco they "authoritatively" "report" > on. > > I should note that all of the pundits above premise their attacks > on the > Manhattan community center with statements that promotion of religious > tolerance and cultural diversity are important and necessary. These > claims, however, mean nothing when they are followed by fear mongering > and attacks on Muslims as part of an all-encompassing threat that > derives from some sort of uniform "Muslim culture" ? one > that is seen as constituting a danger to U.S. security and the > American > way of life. These pundits refuse to distinguish between the tiny > minority of those throughout the world who support terrorism in the > name > of Islam and the vast majority of Muslims who reject those beliefs. > Their reluctance to take a reasonable, level-headed approach to the > study of the Muslim faith is an indicator of their fanaticism, > religious > bigotry, and racism. > > Rather than asking whether the Manhattan community center represents a > threat, we should be asking ourselves what happened to our country > when > national discourse is hijacked by those who not only have no > interest in > facts, but see them as an active roadblock to advancing their racist > agendas. The blatant racism and incompetence of those attacking the > Manhattan community center should be obvious enough to those who pride > themselves in promoting multi-culturalism, racial diversity, and > respect > for religious freedom. That the racist right remains so prominent in > national television and radio is a sign, more than anything else, > of the > steep deterioration of American political discourse. > > Anthony DiMaggio is the editor of media-ocracy (www.media-ocracy.com > ), a daily online magazine devoted > to the > study of media, public opinion, and current events. He has taught > U.S. > and Global Politics at Illinois State University and North Central > College, and is the author of When Media Goes to War > > (2010) and Mass Media, Mass Propaganda > > (2008). He can be reached at: mediaocracy@gmail.com > > > http://www.counterpunch.org/dimaggio08122010.html > > > > > > > > > Messages in this topic (1) > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > 5. 8 Percent of U.S. Births to Illegal Immigrants > Posted by: "R A Fonda" rafonda@verizon.net rafonda2000 > Date: Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:01 am ((PDT)) > > > Study: 8 Percent of U.S. Births to Illegal Immigrants > > > Pew Hispanic Center Report Sheds Light on Americans at > Center of > Birthright Citizenship Debate > > > By DEVIN DWYER > > *WASHINGTON, August 11, 2010---* > > Eight percent of all babies born in the U.S. in 2008 belonged to > illegal > immigrant > america-shadows-abc-news-special-series/story?id=11099873> > parents, according to a groundbreaking analysis of U.S. Census Bureau > data by the Pew Hispanic Center. Under the 14th amendment to the > Constitution, each child obtained U.S. citizenship at birth while > one or > both of the parents remained undocumented. > > The study > sheds > new light on a group of Americans at the center of a hot political > debate > amendment-republican-senators-explore-change/story?id=11313973> > in recent weeks. Some Republican lawmakers have proposed revising > birthright citizenship to bar U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants > from obtaining legal status. > > Pew estimates 340,000 of the 4.3 million newborns in U.S. hospitals in > 2008 belonged to illegal immigrant parents. In total, 4 million > U.S.-born, citizen children of illegal immigrants > citizenship-abroad/story?id=10359956> > currently live in the country, according to the study. > > The study is the most comprehensive, non-partisan research to date on > children of illegal immigrants living in the U.S. and adds important > context, and frames the ongoing debate. Previously there have been few > reliable estimates of annual U.S. births to illegal immigrants. > > Critics of birthright citizenship > tourism/story?id=11322850&page=1> > have expressed concern over the burgeoning size of America's illegal > immigrant > abc-news-special-series/story?id=11099873> > population, estimated at 10.8 million and whose offspring in the U.S. > would be able to sponsor their parents and relatives for legal > residency. The children are sometimes referred to as anchor babies. > > "Birthright citizenship I think is a mistake," said Republican Sen. > Lindsey Graham of South Carolina. "We should change our > Constitution and > say if you come here illegally and you have a child, that child's > automatically not a citizen." > > Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and other leading Republicans, > including Arizona senators Jon Kyl and John McCain, have indicated an > openness to exploring the 14th Amendment issue raised by Sen. Graham. > But some harbor deep reservations about changing the Constitution. > > "It's a rather unseemly business and I think we ought to have some > hearings about it," McConnell said of the practice of illegal > immigrant > mothers giving birth in the U.S. > > "Congressional hearings are always warranted when members of Congress > raise the issue of amending our Constitution," said McCain in a > statement. "I believe that the Constitution is a strong, complete and > carefully crafted document that has successfully governed our > nation for > centuries and any proposal to amend the Constitution should receive > extensive and thoughtful consideration." > > > Birthright Citizenship Debate: Election Year Politics? > > But some lawmakers are calling the push to revise the 14th Amendment > nothing but a political stunt. > > "I think it's good to take a look at all of our constitutional > amendments. But I'll tell you something: if you think it's a > coincidence > that this sudden discussion begins three months before an election, > you'd be very, very mistaken," said Vermont Independent Sen. Bernie > Sanders on ABC's "Top Line" > percent-political-11314073>. > > > Pennsylvannia Democratic Sen. Arlen Specter, whose parents were > immigrants to the U.S., has called U.S. citizenship by birth a > fundamental right. > > "The political pandering on the immigration issue has reached the > hysterical level," Specter told ABC News. "To try to direct the effort > at the children born in this country is just preposterous... How can > newborn children protect themselves if politicians want to gain > political gain... I would be shocked if this idea would gain political > traction, but I'm being shocked on a daily basis by the United States > Senate." > > > History of Birthright and the 14th Amendment > > The 14th Amendment to the Constitution, which was enacted after the > Civil War to grant citizenship to descendants of slaves, reads: "All > persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the > jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the > state > wherein they reside." > > "The drafter of the 14th Amendment provision on citizenship did make a > statement that it would not include foreigners or aliens," said George > Washington University constitutional law professor Jonathan Turley. > "However, other senators made it clear that they believed that this > provision guaranteed birthright citizenship." > > The courts have repeatedly ruled that people who are born in the U.S. > are American citizens and if Congress passed a law changing that, it > would likely be repealed, experts say. > > The Supreme Court has > only addressed the issue once, clarifying in 1898 that citizenship > does > apply to U.S.-born children of legal immigrants who have yet to become > citizens. > > "The legislative history may be a little mixed, but the language of > the > amendment seems to speak clearly in favor of birthright citizenship, > regardless of what the intent may have been," Turley said. > > The United States is one of the few remaining countries to grant > citizenship to all children born on its soil. The United Kingdom, > Ireland, India and Australia, among others, have since revised their > birthright laws, no longer allowing every child born on their soil to > get citizenship. > > > > > > Messages in this topic (1) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evolutionary-psychology/ > > <*> Your email settings: > Digest Email | Traditional > > <*> To change settings online go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evolutionary-psychology/join > (Yahoo! ID required) > > <*> To change settings via email: > evolutionary-psychology-normal@yahoogroups.com > evolutionary-psychology-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > evolutionary-psychology-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ > welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:55:11 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Seaman Subject: Re: competitions In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_BjBP9vFm4/x/EnfDmxSm9w)" --Boundary_(ID_BjBP9vFm4/x/EnfDmxSm9w) Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Total... In the sentence, "This place is a total wreck," isn't "total" act= ually a modifier? and the singular noun "a wreck?"=0A=0ANotice how the Bri= tish say "The government are in session," when Americans say "The governme= nt is in session."=0A=0AI like Jim Andrews' poignant tale of the house ful= l of 40 years of acculturation. It makes me think of my own 40+ years of t= eaching French. There are some things I am learning to adjust and adjust t= o. For one, I'm getting over my annoyance at the French borrowings of Engl= ish. Why would they say "le listing" when they have a perfectly good "la l= iste?" For another, they tend to say "c'est" even when it is followed by a= plural complement.=0A=0ANew technologies can sometimes support good pract= ices. Like some French correspondents, I almost gave up using accents in m= y emails, because the keystrokes are so tedious; now with iPad it is a one= -touch event to slide your finger to the selected accented letter.=0A=0AIn= my teaching, where students had=EF=BB=BF accused me of making them into F= rench proofreaders, I am learning to refrain from interrupting to correct = errors if they are communicating successfully. The point in a restaurant i= n France is to get fed, not to demonstrate impeccable grammar. Of course a= ccuracy and fluent expression nourish in another way.....=0A=0AThat said, = we probably agree that it is valuable to know what the accurate standard o= f a language is, in order to appreciate deviation from it. N'est-ce pas?=0A= =0ADavid W. Seaman, Ph.D.=0Ahttp://personal.georgiasouthern.edu/~dseaman/W= elcome.html=0A=0AFollow my Twitter poetry at dseaman40=0A=0AYouTube video = of my Venice Biennale poem: =0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DJQ5bOuJBN_= k=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn 12 Aug, 2010,at 04:51 PM, Stephen Ellis wrote:=0A=0A> You must be totaled to be accurate. Is that like= being 98.6% loaded?=0A>=0A> > Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 08:59:40 -0400=0A> >= From: urthona@VERIZON.NET=0A> > Subject: Re: competitions=0A> > To: POETI= CS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0A> >=0A> > David W. Seaman, Ph.D.=0A> > http://pe= rsonal.georgiasouthern.edu/~dseaman/Welcome.html=0A> > writes:=0A> > "Whil= e those of us in the grammar police (either official or clandestine)=0A> >= like to disparage any errors, we must also recognize that usage is flexib= le=0A> > and evolving, It may be that there are myriad ways to express thi= ngs,=0A> > with a whole range of 'levels of usage.' Let's live with it and= enjoy it."=0A> >=0A> > ..................................................= .........................................................=0A> >=0A> > Umm= m . . . :=0A> >=0A> > "a total" ("a"=3Dsingular)=0A> > "is" (singular)=0A>= > "This place is a total wreck."=0A> >=0A> > "totals" (plural)=0A> > "are= " (plural)=0A> > "Several totals are required to ensure accuracy."=0A> >=0A= > > The newest proposal for national educational standards=0A> > in the U.= S. recommends teaching grammatical agreement=0A> > in grade three (the fi= rst grammatical principle mentioned=0A> > in that set of standards). Many = of my students in college=0A> > composition seem unable to distinguish bet= ween one and=0A> > more than one. Perhaps only a tiny neurological window=0A= > > exists for hard-wiring agreement, but given recent work=0A> > in brain= plasticity, I doubt it--though a fourteen-week=0A> > semester usually pro= ves insufficient for rehab. As Yale=0A> > grad G. W. Bush wondered, "Is ou= r children learning?"=0A> > Good enough? Enjoy that?=0A> >=0A> > ~ Dan Zim= merman, Ph.D.=0A> > Dzimmerman@middlesexcc.edu=0A> >=0A> >=0A> > ----- Ori= ginal Message -----=0A> > From: "Angela Vasquez-Giroux" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "Curated by Kari Adelaide and Sörine Anderson". Rest of header flushed. From: amy king Subject: TONIGHT: The Perseids -- The Custer Observatory Comments: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Perseids=0ACurated by Kari Adelaide and S=C3=B6rine Anderson=0AThe Cust= er Observatory, August 14, 2010 ---- 6-8 pm=0A=0A=0Ahttp://www.artcat.c= om/exhibits/11852=0A=0A=E2=80=9CA whirling light on the slopes of rushes=E2= =80=A6the dew of evening and the=0Asweat of the stars are paired=E2=80=A6in= the avalanche of milk from the fierce=0Astars=E2=80=A6The last hem of the = breezes, there where the pheasant of the=0Amoon flees and dies=E2=80=A6Thus= do ships lie down in the silver storm=E2=80=A6It is=0Ain the sweet escape = called the future, an escape that is always=0Apossible, that the stars that= until now have bent over our distress=0Aare resorbed=E2=80=A6the shadow of= trees, the whirling shadow of dust, to come=0Ato grips with our shadow=E2= =80=A6my eyes were only a shadow-theater.=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93Andr=C3=A9=0AB= reton=0A=0AAn exploration of the infinite compendium under the nightsky,=0A= systematic illumination burdened by the glowing gravity of selfhood,=0Aimmu= table comings and goings of revelation, a moving forest of=0Asky-violet, co= nfronted by the fantastical and epic unknown, poetics of=0Avisible and invi= sible horizons, the flux of inner and outer cosmos,=0Aarc-lit trails of lun= ar dust, immutable myth of the cosmos, the strike=0Aof the atmosphere and n= otes of unsung nebulas, forgotten infinite=0Awanderings, a labyrinth in a f= ield of shadow stems, untamed galactic=0Ahorizons, without the landmark of = place, to the celestial=0Ashadow-theater of untamed epiphanies: A converge= nce of practices that=0Aemulate the physical nature of the meteor itself, a= phantom shedding=0Aof particles that trace the emergence of individual spe= ctral bodies.=0A=0ATales beyond the universe, unintimidated by the tension = of inner and=0Aouter cosmos, stargazing and echoing light, intangible echoi= ng tales,=0Apoetics of the impalpable, the haze of absence and the semblanc= e of=0Aotherworldly horizons, a hovering systematic illumination of light,= =0Astars, time and space, where specificity is outweighed by the=0Ainconcei= vability of infinite realities. The uncertainty of self in=0Aoblivion, and = the cosmic dust of the so-called radiant.=0A=0AAs the Perseids have been wi= tnessed for thousands of years, we await=0Athe gleam of necessary illusion,= momentarily clinging to the=0Atransparency of the universe, with serpentin= e and attentive contours,=0Athe sight of waiting, the sight of watching in = anxious revelatory=0Aflashes, the rotation of desire and flashing vignettes= , dust-stained=0Amoments of lucidity, the impossible imprint of fantasy, wi= th flooded=0Alight and dissolution of self, prismatic and incandescent. Th= e=0Aparalyzing Perseids, where image becomes an untouchable prismatic=0Aflu= id.=0A=0AContributing Poets:=0AAna Bozicevic=0APhillip Dmochowski=0AEddie H= opely=0AAmy King=0ANoelle Kocot=0AMark Lamoureux=0APatrick Lovelace=0ADanny= Snelson=0AJocelyn Spaar=0AMary Austin Speaker=0A=0AContributing Artists:= =0AVanessa Albury=0AJarrod Anderson=0ARonnie Bass=0ABhakti Baxter=0AJesse B= ransford=0AJennie Hagevik Bringaker=0AKadar Brock=0AErnesto Burgos=0AFia Ci= elen=0APeter Clough=0ACrystal Curtis=0ASonja Engelhardt=0AJay Henderson=0AJ= uliet Jacobson=0AAlex Jovanovich=0ADenise Kupferschmidt=0AJason Leinwand=0A= Locker 03 (Jan Dhaese Edition)=0ADavid Matorin=0AAlex McQuilkin=0AJeremy Ol= son=0AMax Razdow=0AGordon Terry=0ATithonus=0AJan Van Woensel=0A=0APerforman= ces by:=0AMarthe Ramm Fortun=0AAndrea Goldman=0ADavid Merritt=0A=0ACuster O= bservatory =0A1115 Main Bayview Road, Southold, New York, 631-765-2626=0ATr= i-State Area=0AAugust 14 - August 14, 2010 =0AOpening: Saturday, August 14,= 6 - 8 PM=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A********=0APoetry, Publishing, Women & the I= nternet =0A+ =0Ahttp://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/your-own-revolution= -poetry-publishing-the-internet/=0A =0A=0APoets for Living Waters=0A+ http= ://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/ =0A********=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 15:20:41 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Chirot Subject: Re: {spam?} Forwarded article below on the Mosque controversies (fwd) In-Reply-To: <4762D30C-A468-48C0-A0AB-3A0195973343@muohio.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear Cris & Alan: Thank you both for your letters. The direction of the usa has been terrifying for decades now. For many years i have been working on various studies, research, readings, and expressing in writings, art work, letters, my conviction that one of the major symptoms of this direction has been the shifting use/abuse/misuse and deliberate abuse of the language; to quote Pasolini: "for a long time, the only symptoms we had to go one were in the language." In Torture: The Cancer of Democracy France-Algeria 1954-1962 Phllipe Vidal-Naquet raises the question of how the use of Torture affects and poisons a Wstern Democracy: the same effects one may find in the USA since both knowledge & acceptance of Torture and the support of an Apartheid State became part of the everyday language and consciousness. Language of denial, language of double speak, rebrandings, Orwellian Newspeak as detailed in the appendix to 1984--a language and culture of ridicule initiated during the Reagan regime--the lack of questioning and critique, the growing sense of paranoia of both a State and corporate culture of Security, Surveillance, of the removal of more and more protections for any individual charged and even not charged with no longer criminal actions, but, increasingly, "intents," which may soon become "thoughts," --in broad daylight, almost day by day, freedoms being removed, the powers of the Executive Branch being extended without control--so that now the president can pick any person in the world and order their extra-judicial execution--the ridicule and critique of any form of Protest, whether in public or in writing, art--by artists and poets, critics and intellectuals--particpating in censorship and self-censorship-- all have generated a culture which is ever more immune to the uses of cruelty towards "Others" ranging from words to torture to ethnic cleansing and genocide-- everyday reading, listening, watching the news and what passes for "public discourse" one is presented with a non-stop stream of dis-information, distortions, denials, deliberate ignorance, bigotry, bullying-- and all too often, any form of holding to account is greeted with campaigns designed to silence and subvert the concept of justice, questioning, inquiry, let alone its expression, calls for these in action-- all too often, the most monstrous events, persons, politics, are shrugged off with the most bland cliches: "oh, but they're/he/she is such a nice person(s)-- --etc-- sadly, from the President on down, there is an increasing tolerance for intolerance--a goading towards acts of extreme violence and retaliations--at the personal level, and already paraded by the expansion of the US military presence, torture centers, "Black Op" and and other covert operations globally--by supporting torture and Apartheid elsewhere, the American citizen is opening the way to accepting these "at home"--detention camps for "illegal aliens" and the immense explosion in the US (increasingly privatized and more open to abuses) prison population--largest both numerically and by per centage of the population in the world--all point towards an embrace of other and ever harsher measures to be meted out to anyone and everyone--charged with or even with the remote possibility of being charged with--just about any "crime" any person with even minor "authority" dreams up in a fever of "patriotism"-- as Cris points out, it is not from the "right" only that such language has emerged, but across the society--and in every area of society and culture-- On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 10:57 AM, cris cheek wrote: > I couldn't agree more about the morbidity of the mosque debates Alan and by > the statement that we are all immigrants > > i do not however think it is the sole purview of the "right" to generate > paranoia and hate speech (bearing in mind that "left" and "right" are also > troubling formulations with troubled histories) > > i've not seen Obama want to take down the fence with Mexico started under > the odious Bush in the south west (for example . . . he sent more troops no > less) nor actually close down Guantanamo (for example . . . all empty > rhetoric for 18 months already now) nor do anything but escalate the war in > Afghanistan (for example . . . although i guess that's not surprising since > Democrat presidents have taken the US to war far more eagerly and frequently > throughout the twentieth century than even their Republican counterparts . . > . unless my math is just wrong, in the guise of the world's police . . . > vomit) nor repeal the Patriot Act (for example . . . an act of insanity by > GW Bush against which there was so much derision focussed when i first came > to live here in the US and which Obama has re-ratified) nor address the > hideous Department of Homeland Security . . . ( a militarization of the > State that builds inexorably on surveillance and controls brought in my that > arch Big Brother sap J Edgar Hoover . . .) > > . . . > > > and then which judge made a serious move on Prop 8 just a couple of weeks > ago . . . a libertarian-leaning freedom of speech judge appointed by Ronald > Reagan . . (what is Obama doing to end Reagan's appallingly debilitating and > outright destructive War on Drugs?? btw) > > > attacks on the "right" by the "left" appear just as driven by paranoia and > characterized by stereotypical terms and forms of abuse as attacks on the > "left" by the "right" > > it is as often unions who campaign against immigration on the grounds of > competition for their members jobs and a previous wave of immigrants which > tries to block the next as it is nationalists and xenophobes weaving their > racist sentiments into planning and zoning debates and whipping up fearful > sentiment > > > a pox on both Democrats and on Republicans > > > xx > > > cris > > > > On Aug 12, 2010, at 4:26 PM, Alan Sondheim wrote: > > I just have to say I'm ashamed of this country, and scared - too much >> hatred against illegal immigrants (WHICH WE ALL ARE), and now Islam. Some >> of the protests are all too familiar Kristallnacht in tone - on Jon >> Stewart, there was a newsclip of a community going to burn a copy of the >> Koran on 9/11. >> >> I can't argue this with anyone - I'm horrified and brought to tears by it. >> And we can't sit by and let a rabid racist right grow in this country - >> the affects have been seen repeatedly worldwide. >> >> - Alan >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:20:36 >> From: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com >> Reply-To: No Reply >> To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [evol-psych] Digest Number 7327 >> >> There are 6 messages in this issue. >> >> Topics in this digest: >> >> 1. News: Orangutan pantomime ~ elaborating the message >> From: Robert Karl Stonjek >> >> 2a. Re: Holistic Darwinism: The new evolutionary paradigm and some impli >> From: Mike Tintner >> 2b. Re: Holistic Darwinism: The new evolutionary paradigm and some impli >> From: Steve Moxon >> >> 3. Bonobos and chimps >> From: mark hubey >> >> 4. The Rise of America's Idiot Culture >> From: ED >> >> 5. 8 Percent of U.S. Births to Illegal Immigrants >> From: R A Fonda >> >> >> Messages >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> 1. News: Orangutan pantomime ~ elaborating the message >> Posted by: "Robert Karl Stonjek" stonjek@ozemail.com.au rk_stonjek >> Date: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:07 am ((PDT)) >> >> Orangutan pantomime: elaborating the message >> Anne Russon1 and Kristin Andrews2 >> >> 1Psychology Department, Glendon College, 2275 Bayview Avenue, Toronto, >> Ontario, >> Canada M4N 3M6 >> 2Philosophy Department, York University, 4700 Keele St Toronto, Ontario, >> Canada >> M3J 1P3 >> >> *Author for correspondence (arusson@gl.yorku.ca). >> Abstract >> We present an exploratory study of forest-living orangutan pantomiming, >> i.e. >> gesturing in which they act out their meaning, focusing on its occurrence, >> communicative functions, and complexities. Studies show that captive great >> apes >> may elaborate messages if communication fails, and isolated reports >> suggest >> that great apes occasionally pantomime. We predicted forest-living >> orangutans >> would pantomime spontaneously to communicate, especially to elaborate >> after >> communication failures. Mining existing databases on free-ranging >> rehabilitant >> orangutans' behaviour identified 18 salient pantomimes. These pantomimes >> most >> often functioned as elaborations of failed requests, but also as >> deceptions and >> declaratives. Complexities identified include multimodality, re-enactments >> of >> past events and several features of language (productivity, >> compositionality, >> systematicity). These findings confirm that free-ranging rehabilitant >> orangutans pantomime and use pantomime to elaborate on their mess >> ages. Further, they use pantomime for multiple functions and create >> complex >> pantomimes that can express propositionally structured content. Thus, >> orangutan >> pantomime serves as a medium for communication, not a particular function. >> Mining cases of complex great ape communication originally reported in >> functional terms may then yield more evidence of pantomime. >> >> Source: The Royal Society >> >> http://rsbl.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2010/08/05/rsbl.2010.0564.abstract?papetoc >> >> Posted by >> Robert Karl Stonjek >> >> >> >> >> Messages in this topic (1) >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> 4. The Rise of America's Idiot Culture >> Posted by: "ED" seacrofter001@yahoo.com seacrofter001 >> Date: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:59 am ((PDT)) >> >> >> >> >> August 12, 2010 >> The Rise of America's Idiot Culture The Muslim Community Center at >> Ground Zero: a Manufactured Controversy >> By ANTHONY DiMAGGIO >> >> A substantial racist uproar is taking place in conservative America, >> particularly in right-wing radio and television. Reactionary pundits >> are drawing increased attention to plans to build an Islamic community >> center in downtown Manhattan, near Ground Zero. Republicans and >> conservatives have long been known to harbor racist views of Islam, >> although they're hardly alone in this. Many on the right frame the >> entire religion as radical, fundamentalist, and a threat to national >> security. In light of this pattern, there's little surprising about >> the right's most recent attack on Muslim Americans as a secret, >> under the radar threat. >> >> Islam has at times been portrayed on the right as the bedrock threat to >> American cultural values, and Muslims are depicted as uni-dimensionally >> set on overthrowing Christianity, enslaving the American public, and >> imposing "Sharia law." The last warning about "Sharia >> law" ? repeated by pundits like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh >> ? among many others ? comes off as extremely ignorant, >> considering that the term "Sharia" itself means Islamic law. >> One should take the warnings of those who use the phrase "Sharia >> law" about as seriously as someone who masquerades as a legal >> scholar while talking about the importance of "American law >> law." >> >> The American right has also taken to paranoid conspiracy theories >> charging that Obama is a non-citizen. As the story goes, Obama was >> really born in Kenya, and his "take over" of the White House >> represents a secret victory for radical Islam, since, as we all >> "know," Obama is a closet Muslim terrorist who is allied with >> Osama bin Laden and other radical Islamists. About half of Republicans >> believe either that Obama is not a citizen or that they cannot be sure >> of whether he is really an American citizen or not. These views are >> shared by nearly 60 percent of self-designated Tea Party supporters. >> >> Of course, the nuances of the Islamic faith and the mainstream nature of >> the American Muslim community - the vast majority who oppose terrorism, >> fundamentalism, or repression of women - have been completely lost in >> the smug arrogance and incompetence of racists on the right. >> >> The reactionary right has long been opposed to anything related to Arab >> culture and the Muslim religion in New York and around the country. One >> infamous example is New York's Khalil Gibran Arabic language >> academy, the first of its kind for the city. Rabid right-wingers railed >> against it, especially those in the "stop the Madrassa" campaign >> (many of whom worried about the dangers of "Madrassa schools," >> while apparently too ignorant to realize that the word Madrassa itself >> means school). I argued with one of the leaders of this group on Alan >> Colmes' radio show a few years ago. She seemed un-phased by the >> reality that there was never any concrete evidence that the Khalil >> Gibran academy was teaching Islamic values. As she announced on the >> show (despite my scorn for her comments), the very fact that there was >> no visible evidence of an Islamic curriculum was proof of just how good >> the schools' administrators and teachers were of hiding it. Such >> paranoia demonstrated how far conservative extremism and racism have >> come in recent years. >> >> This brings us to the most recent "controversy" related to >> Islam: the Muslim community center planned for Manhattan. Right wingers >> in radio and at Fox News have gone into overdrive attacking it as a >> fundamental threat to the American way of life and to American security. >> Their racist diatribes have been hard for me to listen to, but they >> remain important to address, if for no other reason than so we can fight >> the ignorant assumptions behind them head on. >> >> Here's a quick review of some of the most outrageous comments made >> in the American media: >> >> - On Fox News, former Congressman Newt Gingrich attacked the community >> center for its planned location "right at the edge of a place where, >> let's be clear, thousands of Americans were killed in an attack by >> radical Islamists." On his website, Gingrich announced that >> "there should be no mosque near ground zero in New York so long as >> there are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia." >> Gingrich's choice to spotlight the radical fundamentalist regime of >> Saudi Arabia (hypocritically supported by Gingrich himself when he was >> Speaker of the House in the 1990s) ? while neglecting moderate and >> secular governments in the Muslim world, speaks volumes about what he >> considers to be the "essence" of Islam. Gingrich's language >> is truly abhorrent; he frames those supporting the community center in >> Manhattan as part of the same "they" as the Islamic >> fundamentalists who perpetrated the 9-11 attacks. As far as Gingrich is >> concerned, there are no distinctions to be made in the monolithic >> "threat" that is the entire U.S. and world Muslim community. >> >> - On Fox, Sarah Palin drew attention to "those innocent victims, >> those families of those who were killed in the 9-11 tragedy, it saddens >> me to think that people don't understand what building this mosque >> at such hallowed ground really represents." Inextricably linked to >> Palin's warnings is the assumption that the community center >> represents a single, overarching fifth column threat from American >> Muslims. This much was clear when she characterized its construction >> as "an unnecessary provocation" against the people of New York >> and the American people more generally. >> >> - Fox News host Sean Hannity claimed that the "Iman" supporting >> the building of the community center is a figure who "supports what >> happened on 9/11" and "praises Osama bin Laden." Hannity, >> of course, failed to present any evidence linking community center >> supporters to defending the 9/11 attacks, but this hardly seemed to >> matter to him or his guest, Jay Seculow (of the American Center for Law >> and Justice), who complained that "you don't get to build a >> mosque on a site that's part of ground zero" because "that >> would be like putting at Pearl Harbor a monument of the Kamikaze pilots >> who tried to destroy U.S. troops, you just don't do that." In >> this case, Muslim Americans who had nothing to do with 9/11 are >> apparently the equivalent of Japanese soldiers who killed Americans >> during World War II. >> >> - Right wing radio icon Rush Limbaugh, not to be outdone, warned that >> "the terrorists win" if the community center successfully moves >> forward. Limbaugh continued, posing a hypothetical comparing Muslim >> Americans to those who lynched blacks in the post Civil War era: >> "Let me ask you: What would happen, do you think, if the Ku Klux >> Klan wanted to establish a memorial at Gettysburg?" Limbaugh also >> employed a World War II analogy, likening the dangers of the community >> center to the destruction brought upon Japan by U.S. nuclear weapons: >> "Let's go to Hiroshima and Nagasaki and let's build giant >> monuments in the shape of nuclear bombs and call it the Manhattan >> Project. I mean you'd have Americans objecting to that, >> wouldn't you?" >> >> What is most disturbing about the manufactured controversy involving the >> community center is the blatant arrogance and stupidity of the right in >> its warnings of an imminent "threat." Anyone who spends thirty >> seconds researching the Cordoba Group, the organization responsible for >> promoting the community center, would know that the group's >> representative, Feisal Abdul Rauf (targeted in Hannity attacks as >> pro-bin Laden and pro-9/11) is actually a public critic of Osama bin >> Laden and the 9/11 attacks, and a vocal supporter of improving relations >> between the U.S. and the Muslim world. None of this is conveyed in any >> of the right-wing slander above, however, as these pundits are content >> to showcase their ignorance regarding the basic facts surrounding the >> community center fiasco they "authoritatively" "report" >> on. >> >> I should note that all of the pundits above premise their attacks on the >> Manhattan community center with statements that promotion of religious >> tolerance and cultural diversity are important and necessary. These >> claims, however, mean nothing when they are followed by fear mongering >> and attacks on Muslims as part of an all-encompassing threat that >> derives from some sort of uniform "Muslim culture" ? one >> that is seen as constituting a danger to U.S. security and the American >> way of life. These pundits refuse to distinguish between the tiny >> minority of those throughout the world who support terrorism in the name >> of Islam and the vast majority of Muslims who reject those beliefs. >> Their reluctance to take a reasonable, level-headed approach to the >> study of the Muslim faith is an indicator of their fanaticism, religious >> bigotry, and racism. >> >> Rather than asking whether the Manhattan community center represents a >> threat, we should be asking ourselves what happened to our country when >> national discourse is hijacked by those who not only have no interest in >> facts, but see them as an active roadblock to advancing their racist >> agendas. The blatant racism and incompetence of those attacking the >> Manhattan community center should be obvious enough to those who pride >> themselves in promoting multi-culturalism, racial diversity, and respect >> for religious freedom. That the racist right remains so prominent in >> national television and radio is a sign, more than anything else, of the >> steep deterioration of American political discourse. >> >> Anthony DiMaggio is the editor of media-ocracy (www.media-ocracy.com >> ), a daily online magazine devoted to the >> study of media, public opinion, and current events. He has taught U.S. >> and Global Politics at Illinois State University and North Central >> College, and is the author of When Media Goes to War >> >> (2010) and Mass Media, Mass Propaganda >> >> (2008). He can be reached at: mediaocracy@gmail.com >> >> >> http://www.counterpunch.org/dimaggio08122010.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Messages in this topic (1) >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> 5. 8 Percent of U.S. Births to Illegal Immigrants >> Posted by: "R A Fonda" rafonda@verizon.net rafonda2000 >> Date: Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:01 am ((PDT)) >> >> >> Study: 8 Percent of U.S. Births to Illegal Immigrants >> >> >> Pew Hispanic Center Report Sheds Light on Americans at Center of >> Birthright Citizenship Debate >> >> >> By DEVIN DWYER >> >> *WASHINGTON, August 11, 2010---* >> >> Eight percent of all babies born in the U.S. in 2008 belonged to illegal >> immigrant >> < >> http://newspreview.corp.dig.com/Politics/illegal-immigration-america-shadows-abc-news-special-series/story?id=11099873 >> > >> parents, according to a groundbreaking analysis of U.S. Census Bureau >> data by the Pew Hispanic Center. Under the 14th amendment to the >> Constitution, each child obtained U.S. citizenship at birth while one or >> both of the parents remained undocumented. >> >> The study sheds >> new light on a group of Americans at the center of a hot political >> debate >> < >> http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/birthright-citizenship-14th-amendment-republican-senators-explore-change/story?id=11313973 >> > >> in recent weeks. Some Republican lawmakers have proposed revising >> birthright citizenship to bar U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants >> from obtaining legal status. >> >> Pew estimates 340,000 of the 4.3 million newborns in U.S. hospitals in >> 2008 belonged to illegal immigrant parents. In total, 4 million >> U.S.-born, citizen children of illegal immigrants >> < >> http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/birth-tourism-industry-markets-us-citizenship-abroad/story?id=10359956 >> > >> currently live in the country, according to the study. >> >> The study is the most comprehensive, non-partisan research to date on >> children of illegal immigrants living in the U.S. and adds important >> context, and frames the ongoing debate. Previously there have been few >> reliable estimates of annual U.S. births to illegal immigrants. >> >> Critics of birthright citizenship >> < >> http://abcnews.go.com/WN/debate-birthright-citizenship-aims-baby-tourism/story?id=11322850&page=1 >> > >> have expressed concern over the burgeoning size of America's illegal >> immigrant >> < >> http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/illegal-immigration-america-shadows-abc-news-special-series/story?id=11099873 >> > >> population, estimated at 10.8 million and whose offspring in the U.S. >> would be able to sponsor their parents and relatives for legal >> residency. The children are sometimes referred to as anchor babies. >> >> "Birthright citizenship I think is a mistake," said Republican Sen. >> Lindsey Graham of South Carolina. "We should change our Constitution and >> say if you come here illegally and you have a child, that child's >> automatically not a citizen." >> >> Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and other leading Republicans, >> including Arizona senators Jon Kyl and John McCain, have indicated an >> openness to exploring the 14th Amendment issue raised by Sen. Graham. >> But some harbor deep reservations about changing the Constitution. >> >> "It's a rather unseemly business and I think we ought to have some >> hearings about it," McConnell said of the practice of illegal immigrant >> mothers giving birth in the U.S. >> >> "Congressional hearings are always warranted when members of Congress >> raise the issue of amending our Constitution," said McCain in a >> statement. "I believe that the Constitution is a strong, complete and >> carefully crafted document that has successfully governed our nation for >> centuries and any proposal to amend the Constitution should receive >> extensive and thoughtful consideration." >> >> >> Birthright Citizenship Debate: Election Year Politics? >> >> But some lawmakers are calling the push to revise the 14th Amendment >> nothing but a political stunt. >> >> "I think it's good to take a look at all of our constitutional >> amendments. But I'll tell you something: if you think it's a coincidence >> that this sudden discussion begins three months before an election, >> you'd be very, very mistaken," said Vermont Independent Sen. Bernie >> Sanders on ABC's "Top Line" >> < >> http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/sanders-14th-amendment-100-percent-political-11314073 >> >. >> >> >> Pennsylvannia Democratic Sen. Arlen Specter, whose parents were >> immigrants to the U.S., has called U.S. citizenship by birth a >> fundamental right. >> >> "The political pandering on the immigration issue has reached the >> hysterical level," Specter told ABC News. "To try to direct the effort >> at the children born in this country is just preposterous... How can >> newborn children protect themselves if politicians want to gain >> political gain... I would be shocked if this idea would gain political >> traction, but I'm being shocked on a daily basis by the United States >> Senate." >> >> >> History of Birthright and the 14th Amendment >> >> The 14th Amendment to the Constitution, which was enacted after the >> Civil War to grant citizenship to descendants of slaves, reads: "All >> persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the >> jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state >> wherein they reside." >> >> "The drafter of the 14th Amendment provision on citizenship did make a >> statement that it would not include foreigners or aliens," said George >> Washington University constitutional law professor Jonathan Turley. >> "However, other senators made it clear that they believed that this >> provision guaranteed birthright citizenship." >> >> The courts have repeatedly ruled that people who are born in the U.S. >> are American citizens and if Congress passed a law changing that, it >> would likely be repealed, experts say. >> >> The Supreme Court has >> only addressed the issue once, clarifying in 1898 that citizenship does >> apply to U.S.-born children of legal immigrants who have yet to become >> citizens. >> >> "The legislative history may be a little mixed, but the language of the >> amendment seems to speak clearly in favor of birthright citizenship, >> regardless of what the intent may have been," Turley said. >> >> The United States is one of the few remaining countries to grant >> citizenship to all children born on its soil. The United Kingdom, >> Ireland, India and Australia, among others, have since revised their >> birthright laws, no longer allowing every child born on their soil to >> get citizenship. >> >> >> >> >> >> Messages in this topic (1) >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evolutionary-psychology/ >> >> <*> Your email settings: >> Digest Email | Traditional >> >> <*> To change settings online go to: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evolutionary-psychology/join >> (Yahoo! ID required) >> >> <*> To change settings via email: >> evolutionary-psychology-normal@yahoogroups.com >> evolutionary-psychology-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com >> >> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> evolutionary-psychology-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 14:09:34 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Dan Wilcox Subject: Third Thursday Poetry Night, August 19: Jill Crammond Wickham Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 the Poetry Motel Foundation presents =20 Third Thursday Poetry Night =20 at the Social Justice Center 33 Central Ave., Albany, NY =20 August 19 7:00 sign up; 7:30 start =20 Featured Poet: Jill Crammond Wickham -- with an open mic for community poets before & after the feature; = $3.00 donation, suggested; more if you got it, less if you can=92t. =20 Your tanned host: Dan Wilcox. =20 (I took this poem by Jill from her Blog, = http://jillypoet.wordpress.com/) =20 The Parable of the Anvil and Garter After a painting by Carrie Ann Baade =20 I waited all night by the window for you, hero, you and your white steed, but you never arrived. I would have mounted even a black horse had you ridden up on purity=92s dark seed=96 any horse in a storm, brute muscle and sweat saving me from lightning, hail, electricity gone wrong. Meanwhile, the dishes piled up, dinner scorched in the womb of the oven missing its controls and the children straggled in with a rusty anvil recovered from the neighbor=92s garbage. Without the steady hoof beat of rescue to march by, flying seems the only option. Outside, in an absurd reversal of strength, a single raven flees a host of sparrows giant predator diving and swerving to avoid the sting of lesser beaks. Leaving the house in blue garter and bustier proves much easier than explaining why I am astride a gleaming metal weight, why the very burden meant to drag me down is allowing me to soar above the mossy rooftop. Every parable has a moral. Draw conclusions at your own risk.= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 23:38:01 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jared Schickling Subject: Re: MOSQUES, CHURCHES, APES, CESSPOOLS In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Steve=2C Alan=2C and whomever else=2C =20 your posts =96 =20 Taking Steve=92s idea of the present / nearing =93End=2C=94 and everything that suggests=2C as a baseline proposition=97and less concerned = with the accuracy of a truth than a thinking sensibility=97much less any washed set = of theory that doesn=92t offer something we=92ve missed=97how is one to think = of a relevant poetry? What would a relevant poetry be? What is a relevant poetry? Affirmation and change and hope and= things of that ilk don=92t seem to go anywhere=97as according to the proposition t= hey are inaccurate. Yet one persists insisting=85 =20 A far-flung surrealism is acutely popular=2C and so would be apparently perceived as somehow relevant.=20 And yet so is a staunch eco poetic.=20 Alan=92s post of xenophobia=2C corruption and broken glass alongside the systematicity of Pantomime Ape of Free Will speaks=2C perhaps=2C to where t= he two cohabitate. Nature nurtured. =20 =20 In the end=2C and without much argument=2C I=92m inclined to see this as formal questions. CA Conrad=92s recent brief =93review=94 at Futurepost is peculiar=2C even if I=92m quite = possibly overstating my case=2C but it has me wondering:=20 =20 =93The term =91Identity Politics=92 is bad enough. It=92s meant to annihilate the efforts of those who literally bled for the room th= ey made for us all. =91Identity Politics=92 makes a joke of it. It says that all it ever was was wallowing in the filth and conspiracy of politics= =2C a game=2C it=92s all just been a game.=94 =20 While we do know politics would hardly change (have changed) without politics. Part of the public social artist=92s civil agenda is to force action=2C political. Using=2C a= s with more faith in=2C artistic=2C biologic means of a-political=2C corrosive substance. Any blood=2C here=2C= IS identity politics. Conrad=92s joke is perverse because=2C as I read it= =2C it can=92t achieve itself=2C so that it does. It is literal in its bleeding=2C sur-real and eco-logical=2C like a complete thought abou= t the body. =20 =20 And yet I don=92t think the passage=2C nor a review that =93wipes me out=94 for that matter (=93evie=94=92s reply)=2C has intended this. It = seems to bear the burden of its own conviction. =20 =20 (Here I should suggest the value of all this. Well=2C upon now thinking ab= out this which is something I wasn=92t thinking about before=2C today I resisted not tossing = some recyclables. And I apologized to someone for something. And cleaned up the dog in the neighbor=92s yard. Etc=2C coincidence perhaps. Which would be such work to parcel out. Also against the original proposition. Einstein=92s definition of insanity.) =20 How is such a method=2C a process unintentional=2C defeated yet conjured=2C to be systemized=2C formalized=2C etc & et al discussed=2C articulated? In= a relevant way?=20 =20 Just a question.=20 Available on or off list. =20 = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 20:19:29 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: competitions Comments: cc: Daniel Zimmerman MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8; reply-type=original Right. The total appears (singular) at the bottom of the page, and may prove accurate if added by a tee-totaller. ~ Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Seaman" To: Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 2:55 PM Subject: Re: competitions Total... In the sentence, "This place is a total wreck," isn't "total" actually a modifier? and the singular noun "a wreck?" Notice how the British say "The government are in session," when Americans say "The government is in session." I like Jim Andrews' poignant tale of the house full of 40 years of acculturation. It makes me think of my own 40+ years of teaching French. There are some things I am learning to adjust and adjust to. For one, I'm getting over my annoyance at the French borrowings of English. Why would they say "le listing" when they have a perfectly good "la liste?" For another, they tend to say "c'est" even when it is followed by a plural complement. New technologies can sometimes support good practices. Like some French correspondents, I almost gave up using accents in my emails, because the keystrokes are so tedious; now with iPad it is a one-touch event to slide your finger to the selected accented letter. In my teaching, where students had accused me of making them into French proofreaders, I am learning to refrain from interrupting to correct errors if they are communicating successfully. The point in a restaurant in France is to get fed, not to demonstrate impeccable grammar. Of course accuracy and fluent expression nourish in another way..... That said, we probably agree that it is valuable to know what the accurate standard of a language is, in order to appreciate deviation from it. N'est-ce pas? David W. Seaman, Ph.D. http://personal.georgiasouthern.edu/~dseaman/Welcome.html Follow my Twitter poetry at dseaman40 YouTube video of my Venice Biennale poem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ5bOuJBN_k On 12 Aug, 2010,at 04:51 PM, Stephen Ellis wrote: > You must be totaled to be accurate. Is that like being 98.6% loaded? > > > Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 08:59:40 -0400 > > From: urthona@VERIZON.NET > > Subject: Re: competitions > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > > David W. Seaman, Ph.D. > > http://personal.georgiasouthern.edu/~dseaman/Welcome.html > > writes: > > "While those of us in the grammar police (either official or > > clandestine) > > like to disparage any errors, we must also recognize that usage is > > flexible > > and evolving, It may be that there are myriad ways to express things, > > with a whole range of 'levels of usage.' Let's live with it and enjoy > > it." > > > > ........................................................................................................... > > > > Ummm . . . : > > > > "a total" ("a"=singular) > > "is" (singular) > > "This place is a total wreck." > > > > "totals" (plural) > > "are" (plural) > > "Several totals are required to ensure accuracy." > > > > The newest proposal for national educational standards > > in the U. S. recommends teaching grammatical agreement > > in grade three (the first grammatical principle mentioned > > in that set of standards). Many of my students in college > > composition seem unable to distinguish between one and > > more than one. Perhaps only a tiny neurological window > > exists for hard-wiring agreement, but given recent work > > in brain plasticity, I doubt it--though a fourteen-week > > semester usually proves insufficient for rehab. As Yale > > grad G. W. Bush wondered, "Is our children learning?" > > Good enough? Enjoy that? > > > > ~ Dan Zimmerman, Ph.D. > > Dzimmerman@middlesexcc.edu > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Angela Vasquez-Giroux" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: derek beaulieu Subject: visual poetry print Comments: To: "Undisclosed-Recipient:;"@invalid.domain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi folks; Crimmitschau, Germany's Atomino Art Festival has produced prints of a = letraset poem of mine. The 33? x 23.5? print (see = http://derekbeaulieu.wordpress.com/2010/08/13/atomino-print/) is = produced in an edition of 100 copies, the 1st 50 of which will be hung = through-out the city by Crimmitschau's Town Hall. The remaining 50 copies - each signed and numbered - are available for = $15CDN each. To order, drop me an email at derek@housepress.ca derek beaulieu 2 - 733 2nd avenue nw calgary alberta canada T2N 0E4 derek@housepress.ca http://derekbeaulieu.wordpress.com/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 22:44:19 -1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jonathan Morse Subject: Re: Forwarded article below on the Mosque controversies (fwd) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 8/12/2010 10:26 AM, Alan Sondheim wrote: > > I can't argue this with anyone - I'm horrified and brought to tears by > it. And we can't sit by and let a rabid racist right grow in this > country - the effects have been seen repeatedly worldwide. Not just this country. On a listserv whose members don't pay much of their professional attention to language, I called attention to an anti-mosque blog by the New Republic's Marty Peretz, who attempted to score a point for innuendo by referring to President Obama as "Barack Hussein Obama." Back came an offlist reply from a Canadian who compared me to both the Daily Worker (the old Communist Party USA newspaper) and Joseph Goebbels. In the same sentence too. Jonathan Morse ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 12:47:47 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: TONIGHT: The Perseids -- The Custer Observatory In-Reply-To: <560851.35602.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable man, I need to move to NY On 8/14/10 11:12 AM, "amy king" wrote: > The Perseids > Curated by Kari Adelaide and S=F6rine Anderson > The Custer Observatory, August 14, 2010 ---- 6-8 pm >=20 >=20 > http://www.artcat.com/exhibits/11852 >=20 > =B3A whirling light on the slopes of rushes=8Athe dew of evening and the > sweat of the stars are paired=8Ain the avalanche of milk from the fierce > stars=8AThe last hem of the breezes, there where the pheasant of the > moon flees and dies=8AThus do ships lie down in the silver storm=8AIt is > in the sweet escape called the future, an escape that is always > possible, that the stars that until now have bent over our distress > are resorbed=8Athe shadow of trees, the whirling shadow of dust, to come > to grips with our shadow=8Amy eyes were only a shadow-theater.=B2 =ADAndr=E9 > Breton >=20 > An exploration of the infinite compendium under the nightsky, > systematic illumination burdened by the glowing gravity of selfhood, > immutable comings and goings of revelation, a moving forest of > sky-violet, confronted by the fantastical and epic unknown, poetics of > visible and invisible horizons, the flux of inner and outer cosmos, > arc-lit trails of lunar dust, immutable myth of the cosmos, the strike > of the atmosphere and notes of unsung nebulas, forgotten infinite > wanderings, a labyrinth in a field of shadow stems, untamed galactic > horizons, without the landmark of place, to the celestial > shadow-theater of untamed epiphanies: A convergence of practices that > emulate the physical nature of the meteor itself, a phantom shedding > of particles that trace the emergence of individual spectral bodies. >=20 > Tales beyond the universe, unintimidated by the tension of inner and > outer cosmos, stargazing and echoing light, intangible echoing tales, > poetics of the impalpable, the haze of absence and the semblance of > otherworldly horizons, a hovering systematic illumination of light, > stars, time and space, where specificity is outweighed by the > inconceivability of infinite realities. The uncertainty of self in > oblivion, and the cosmic dust of the so-called radiant. >=20 > As the Perseids have been witnessed for thousands of years, we await > the gleam of necessary illusion, momentarily clinging to the > transparency of the universe, with serpentine and attentive contours, > the sight of waiting, the sight of watching in anxious revelatory > flashes, the rotation of desire and flashing vignettes, dust-stained > moments of lucidity, the impossible imprint of fantasy, with flooded > light and dissolution of self, prismatic and incandescent. The > paralyzing Perseids, where image becomes an untouchable prismatic > fluid. >=20 > Contributing Poets: > Ana Bozicevic > Phillip Dmochowski > Eddie Hopely > Amy King > Noelle Kocot > Mark Lamoureux > Patrick Lovelace > Danny Snelson > Jocelyn Spaar > Mary Austin Speaker >=20 > Contributing Artists: > Vanessa Albury > Jarrod Anderson > Ronnie Bass > Bhakti Baxter > Jesse Bransford > Jennie Hagevik Bringaker > Kadar Brock > Ernesto Burgos > Fia Cielen > Peter Clough > Crystal Curtis > Sonja Engelhardt > Jay Henderson > Juliet Jacobson > Alex Jovanovich > Denise Kupferschmidt > Jason Leinwand > Locker 03 (Jan Dhaese Edition) > David Matorin > Alex McQuilkin > Jeremy Olson > Max Razdow > Gordon Terry > Tithonus > Jan Van Woensel >=20 > Performances by: > Marthe Ramm Fortun > Andrea Goldman > David Merritt >=20 > Custer Observatory > 1115 Main Bayview Road, Southold, New York, 631-765-2626 > Tri-State Area > August 14 - August 14, 2010 > Opening: Saturday, August 14, 6 - 8 PM >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > ******** > Poetry, Publishing, Women & the Internet > +=20 > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/your-own-revolution-poetry-publis= hing- > the-internet/ > =20 >=20 > Poets for Living Waters > + http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/ > ******** >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 11:22:40 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "=". Rest of header flushed. From: Cara Benson Subject: Yes! Reading Aug 26, Albany NY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes! Reading series launches fall/winter season with 3 stellar poets...=0A= =0ASarah Giragosian, Jennifer Karmin, Maryrose Larkin: Yes!=0AThursday, Aug= ust 26 @ 7:30pm=0ASocial Justice Center =0A33 Central Avenue=0AAlbany, NY= =0A=C2=A0=0ASarah Giragosian earned an MFA in poetry from Boston University= . She has =0Ainterned as an assistant editor at Boston Review and recently = had the =0Aopportunity to assist Professor Robert Shaw with editing his tex= t, Blank Verse: =0AA Guide to its History and Use, published through Ohio U= niversity Press. Her =0Awork has appeared in The New York Times. She is a P= hD candidate at SUNY Albany.=0A=0AJennifer Karmin=E2=80=99s text-sound epic= , Aaaaaaaaaaalice,...was published by Flim =0AForum Press in 2010. She cura= tes the Red Rover Series and is co-founder of the =0Apublic art group Anti = Gravity Surprise. Her multidisciplinary projects have been =0Apresented at = festivals, artist-run spaces, community centers, and on city =0Astreets acr= oss the U.S., Japan, and Kenya. A proud member of the Dusie =0AKollektiv, s= he is the author of the Dusie chapbook Evacuated: Disembodying =0AKatrina. = Walking Poem, a collaborative street project, is featured online at =0AHow2= . In Chicago, Jennifer teaches creative writing to immigrants at Truman =0A= College and works as a Poet-in-Residence for the public schools.=0A=0AMaryr= ose Larkin lives in Portland, Oregon, where she works as a freelance =0Ares= earcher. She is the author of Inverse (nine muses books, 2006), Whimsy =0AD= aybook 2007 (FLASH+CARD, 2006), The Book of Ocean (i.e. press, 2007) and DA= RC =0A(FLASH+CARD, 2009. Larkin is one of the organizsers of Spare Room, a = =0APortland-based writing collective, and is co-editor, with Sarah Mangold,= of =0AFLASH+CARD, a chapbook and ephemera poetry press. Her new book, The = Name of This =0AIntersection is Frost, is forthcoming from Shearsman Books.= =0A=C2=A0=0Ahttp://yesreading.wordpress.com/=0A=C2=A0=0AYou can't so no to = yes.=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 05:39:54 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jesse Glass Subject: Re: Grammar: folk belief vs. poetry In-Reply-To: <<953449.24260.qm@web52404.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greenbaum's office was across the hall from mine at UW-M. He was a nice guy who pestered the hell out of me about how exactly would I say certain expressions concerning baseball. He was simply a shadow in my doorway and now he's a shadow on the Buf. list. and a famous one at that. Jess of Japan On 8/12/2010, "steve russell" wrote: >Soon we'll be in 5th grade again, diagraming sentences. The nuns taught me .... & >that's where it all went wrong. > > >________________________________ >From: Jonathan Morse >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 12:08:53 AM >Subject: Grammar: folk belief vs. poetry > >On 8/10/2010 5:32 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: >> Total is singular. "There are ten books," but "there is a total of ten books." >Oh, let's be poetic and LISTEN to the grammar. Consider, for instance, this >sensitive passage from Randolph Quirk, Sidney Greenbaum, Geoffrey Leach, and Jan >Svartvik, _A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language_ (London: Longman, >1985): > >"The _there_ of existential sentences . . . often determines concord, governing >a singular form of the verb even when the following 'notional subject' is >plural: > >_There's_ some people in the waiting room. > >occurs alongside: > >_There are_ some people in the waiting room." > >(Chapter 18.46, "The status of existential _there_ as subject," p. 1405) > >The two sentences about people in the waiting room communicate slightly >different senses of the word "there," don't they? Training yourself to hear the >difference is one of the many things that poetry is good for. > >So here's an exercise. Can you listen to this example from ch. 18.49, p. 1408, >"There exist a number of similar medieval crosses in different parts of the >country," and then articulate an explanation of why "There exists a number" >would be computer language, not human language? > >Jonathan Morse > > > > > > > >> >> At 03:46 PM 8/9/2010, you wrote: >>> maybe my brain is on hiatus already, but for the life of me, I can't figure >>> out what's wrong with "there are a total". >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 3:24 PM, George Bowering wrote: >>> >>> > The ad for a competition that you have included says >>> > "there are a total" >>> > >>> > Are we to take it that entrants have to try to achieve that level of >>> > English usage? >>> > >>> > gb >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Aug 7, 2010, at 4:27 PM, michael farrell wrote: >>> > >>> > a rodeo to an apple bob - this to most poetry comps - >>> >> >>> >> http://www.nycmidnight.com/2010/FFC/challenge.htm >>> >> >>> >> one thing i like about many u.s. poetry comps is that they have an >>> >> aesthetic context -unlike australia where the pretence is almost always >the >>> >> best of the best - it may be acknowledged that different judges have >>> >> different tastes but the blandout conventionalism of the basic premise is >>> >> rarely challenged >>> >> >>> >> (wasnt going to raise this issue again but provoked by the above appearing >>> >> on my facebook page with the usual suggestion that i 'like' it. i 'x'ed >it, >>> >> with the reason 'offensive', but perhaps shdve clicked 'misleading') >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> ================================== >>> >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts.. Check >>> >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >> >>> > >>> > George Bowering >>> > >>> > Hiyo, Aluminum, away! >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ================================== >>> > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines >>> > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> > >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & >>>sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> >> >> New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. >> $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm >> >> >> "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of >>particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through >>every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss��� fragments >>are like Chekhov���s short stories$BB-(Bthe more that gets left out, the more they seem >>to contain��� One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the >>voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is >>both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody���[it] opens a window, >>not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the >>emotional center of the poem." >> >> M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. >>http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & >>sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > >================================== >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & >sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > >================================== >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 01:03:09 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: Re: competitions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit why's everybody includin ahcandemics say you and i when it's you and me and yes i know when to say either or was that ether On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:55:11 -0700 David Seaman writes: > Total... In the sentence, "This place is a total wreck," isn't > "total" actually a modifier? and the singular noun "a wreck?" > > Notice how the British say "The government are in session," when > Americans say "The government is in session." > > I like Jim Andrews' poignant tale of the house full of 40 years of > acculturation. It makes me think of my own 40+ years of teaching > French. There are some things I am learning to adjust and adjust to. > For one, I'm getting over my annoyance at the French borrowings of > English. Why would they say "le listing" when they have a perfectly > good "la liste?" For another, they tend to say "c'est" even when it > is followed by a plural complement. > > New technologies can sometimes support good practices. Like some > French correspondents, I almost gave up using accents in my emails, > because the keystrokes are so tedious; now with iPad it is a > one-touch event to slide your finger to the selected accented > letter. > > In my teaching, where students had? accused me of making them into > French proofreaders, I am learning to refrain from interrupting to > correct errors if they are communicating successfully. The point in > a restaurant in France is to get fed, not to demonstrate impeccable > grammar. Of course accuracy and fluent expression nourish in another > way..... > > That said, we probably agree that it is valuable to know what the > accurate standard of a language is, in order to appreciate deviation > from it. N'est-ce pas? > > David W. Seaman, Ph.D. > http://personal.georgiasouthern.edu/~dseaman/Welcome.html > > Follow my Twitter poetry at dseaman40 > > YouTube video of my Venice Biennale poem: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ5bOuJBN_k > > > > > > On 12 Aug, 2010,at 04:51 PM, Stephen Ellis > wrote: > > > You must be totaled to be accurate. Is that like being 98.6% > loaded? > > > > > Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 08:59:40 -0400 > > > From: urthona@VERIZON.NET > > > Subject: Re: competitions > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > > > > David W. Seaman, Ph.D. > > > http://personal.georgiasouthern.edu/~dseaman/Welcome.html > > > writes: > > > "While those of us in the grammar police (either official or > clandestine) > > > like to disparage any errors, we must also recognize that usage > is flexible > > > and evolving, It may be that there are myriad ways to express > things, > > > with a whole range of 'levels of usage.' Let's live with it and > enjoy it." > > > > > > > ......................................................................... .................................. > > > > > > Ummm . . . : > > > > > > "a total" ("a"=singular) > > > "is" (singular) > > > "This place is a total wreck." > > > > > > "totals" (plural) > > > "are" (plural) > > > "Several totals are required to ensure accuracy." > > > > > > The newest proposal for national educational standards > > > in the U. S. recommends teaching grammatical agreement > > > in grade three (the first grammatical principle mentioned > > > in that set of standards). Many of my students in college > > > composition seem unable to distinguish between one and > > > more than one. Perhaps only a tiny neurological window > > > exists for hard-wiring agreement, but given recent work > > > in brain plasticity, I doubt it--though a fourteen-week > > > semester usually proves insufficient for rehab. As Yale > > > grad G. W. Bush wondered, "Is our children learning?" > > > Good enough? Enjoy that? > > > > > > ~ Dan Zimmerman, Ph.D. > > > Dzimmerman@middlesexcc.edu > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Angela Vasquez-Giroux" ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 01:55:57 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: Re: End Times (Green) poetics, or Adopt A Gringo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the rich are no longer gettin richer ??? that's a laugh On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 13:17:48 -0700 steve russell writes: > Been talking with my Green Party D.C. friends. > It really does seem as if the End has finally arrived and will be > unfolding in > many interesting ways as the 1st decade of century 21 comes to a > close. > > I mean, even the Rich are no longer getting richer. > It's that bad. > & the enviroment, as everyone knows, is a cesspool. > > So I'm wondering: Where are the sustainable communities? > Artist, especially, should think very hard. > > I haven't done the research, but I wonder if there's a Native > American Tribe > that has an Adopt a Gringo program. I've been rereading my Wendell > Berry and I'm > almost certain (I'm not good with absolutes) that the original > natives of this > country will have a huge leg up when things finally collapse.Run ... > to the > woods ... or someplace safe. > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 21:13:09 +1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Chris Jones Subject: Re: Forwarded article below on the Mosque controversies (fwd) In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 2010-08-12 at 16:26 -0400, Alan Sondheim wrote: > I just have to say I'm ashamed of this country and the same can be said here. While the local original occupants have their Aboriginal flag flying with the Australian flag at our local government chambers; boat people refugees are not allowed on these shores. I call this racism. And shame on racist Australia. -- have chronic fatigue syndrome so may be delayed in reply or brain fog weird just to let you know that's all, Chris Jones. Blog: http://abdevpoetics.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 14:22:05 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: abbey lincoln MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit great songstress composer poet has passed away at age 80 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 18:47:59 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Second Life - Group notice: Tomorrow Aug 14 - 3 PM SLT - Alan Sondheim - SLURL for tomorrow - MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed SLURL for tomorrow - just got it - http://slurl.com/secondlife/East%20of%20Odyssey/218/77/22 Thanks, Alan == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 14:55:37 -0400 Reply-To: tyrone williams Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: MOSQUES, CHURCHES, APES, CESSPOOLS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jared, A great, thinking post... Tyrone -----Original Message----- >From: Jared Schickling >Sent: Aug 14, 2010 1:38 AM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: MOSQUES, CHURCHES, APES, CESSPOOLS > >Dear Steve, Alan, and whomever else, > >=20 > >your posts =E2=80=93 > >=20 > >Taking Steve=E2=80=99s idea of the present / nearing =E2=80=9CEnd,=E2=80= =9D and >everything that suggests, as a baseline proposition=E2=80=94and less conce= rned with the >accuracy of a truth than a thinking sensibility=E2=80=94much less any wash= ed set of >theory that doesn=E2=80=99t offer something we=E2=80=99ve missed=E2=80=94h= ow is one to think of a >relevant poetry? What would a relevant >poetry be? What is a relevant poetry? Affirmation and change and hope an= d things >of that ilk don=E2=80=99t seem to go anywhere=E2=80=94as according to the = proposition they are >inaccurate. Yet one persists insisting=E2=80=A6 > >=20 > >A far-flung surrealism is acutely popular, and so would be >apparently perceived as somehow relevant.=20 >And yet so is a staunch eco poetic.=20 >Alan=E2=80=99s post of xenophobia, corruption and broken glass alongside t= he >systematicity of Pantomime Ape of Free Will speaks, perhaps, to where the = two >cohabitate. Nature nurtured. =20 > >=20 > >In the end, and without much argument, I=E2=80=99m inclined to see >this as formal questions. CA Conrad=E2=80=99s >recent brief =E2=80=9Creview=E2=80=9D at Futurepost is peculiar, even if I= =E2=80=99m quite possibly >overstating my case, but it has me wondering:=20 > >=20 > >=E2=80=9CThe term =E2=80=98Identity Politics=E2=80=99 is bad enough. It= =E2=80=99s >meant to annihilate the efforts of those who literally bled for the room t= hey >made for us all. =E2=80=98Identity Politics=E2=80=99 makes a joke of it. = It says >that all it ever was was wallowing in the filth and conspiracy of politics= , a >game, it=E2=80=99s all just been a game.=E2=80=9D > >=20 > >While we do know politics would hardly change (have changed) >without politics. Part of the public >social artist=E2=80=99s civil agenda is to force action, political. Using= , as with more faith in, artistic, >biologic means of a-political, corrosive substance. Any blood, here, IS i= dentity politics. Conrad=E2=80=99s joke is perverse because, as I read it,= it can=E2=80=99t achieve >itself, so that it does. It is literal >in its bleeding, sur-real and eco-logical, like a complete thought about t= he >body. =20 > >=20 > >And yet I don=E2=80=99t think the passage, nor a review that =E2=80=9Cwipe= s >me out=E2=80=9D for that matter (=E2=80=9Cevie=E2=80=9D=E2=80=99s reply), = has intended this. It seems to bear the burden of its own >conviction. =20 > >=20 > >(Here I should suggest the value of all this. Well, upon now thinking abo= ut this which is >something I wasn=E2=80=99t thinking about before, today I resisted not tos= sing some >recyclables. And I apologized to >someone for something. And cleaned up >the dog in the neighbor=E2=80=99s yard. Etc, >coincidence perhaps. Which would be >such work to parcel out. Also against the >original proposition. Einstein=E2=80=99s >definition of insanity.) > >=20 > >How is such a method, a process unintentional, defeated yet conjured, >to be systemized, formalized, etc & et al discussed, articulated? In a re= levant way?=20 > >=20 > >Just a question.=20 >Available on or off list. =20 > > > > > =09=09 =09 =09=09 =20 >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideline= s & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html Tyrone Williams =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:53:15 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jerome Rothenberg Subject: American Book Award for Poems for the Millennium MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In advance of an official announcement, this is to report that Poems for = the Millennium, volume 3: The University of California Book of Romantic = and Postromantic Poetry, edited by myself and Jeffrey Robinson, will = receive a 2010 American Book Award from the Before Columbus Foundation. = It's my understanding that there will be fourteen such awards over all, = including Amiri Baraka's The Afro-American Soul of American Classical = Music and Dave Eggers' non-fiction narrative Zeitoun, both previously = announced, as well as a lifetime achievement award for our old = comrade-in-poetry Quincy Troupe.=20 The nominating statement for Poems for the Millennium reads as follows: "Modernism rejected Romanticism in the way that one political leader = rejects another-not because it is any different but because it wishes to = win the same audience. This book demonstrates that the only thing that = happened in Modernism was that a door opened onto still another aspect = of the immense cultural experiment that Romanticism was-or as Rothenberg = and Robinson might insist, as Romanticisms were (are). Central issues = were what Rousseau called conscience de soi, self-awareness (but a = self-awareness which deliberately did not separate itself from 'world'), = a new interest in ethnicity and the local, and a shift from thinking of = poetry as a 'craft' and of the poet as 'maker,' to thinking of it as a = provoker of consciousness-even a creator of consciousness-and of the = poet as Bard, Shaman. To know the work so carefully, lovingly and = brilliantly assembled in this book is to know ourselves in a new and = newly conscious way." An awards ceremony and reception will take place on Sunday, September = 19th from 1-4 p.m. at the Koret Auditorium, San Francisco Main Library, = 100 Larkin Street, San Francisco, CA. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 11:59:45 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: George Bowering Subject: Re: competitions In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes; format=flowed That's quite variable. Rich professional golfers use a new tee 18 times a round. gb On Aug 13, 2010, at 5:19 PM, Daniel Zimmerman wrote: > Right. The total appears (singular) at the bottom of the page, > and may prove accurate if added by a tee-totaller. > > ~ Dan > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Seaman" > To: > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 2:55 PM > Subject: Re: competitions > > > Total... In the sentence, "This place is a total wreck," isn't =20 > "total" actually a modifier? and the singular noun "a wreck?" > > Notice how the British say "The government are in session," when =20 > Americans say "The government is in session." > > I like Jim Andrews' poignant tale of the house full of 40 years of =20 > acculturation. It makes me think of my own 40+ years of teaching =20 > French. There are some things I am learning to adjust and adjust =20 > to. For one, I'm getting over my annoyance at the French borrowings =20= > of English. Why would they say "le listing" when they have a =20 > perfectly good "la liste?" For another, they tend to say "c'est" =20 > even when it is followed by a plural complement. > > New technologies can sometimes support good practices. Like some =20 > French correspondents, I almost gave up using accents in my emails, =20= > because the keystrokes are so tedious; now with iPad it is a one-=20 > touch event to slide your finger to the selected accented letter. > > In my teaching, where students had=EF=BB=BF accused me of making them = into =20 > French proofreaders, I am learning to refrain from interrupting to =20 > correct errors if they are communicating successfully. The point in =20= > a restaurant in France is to get fed, not to demonstrate impeccable =20= > grammar. Of course accuracy and fluent expression nourish in =20 > another way..... > > That said, we probably agree that it is valuable to know what the =20 > accurate standard of a language is, in order to appreciate =20 > deviation from it. N'est-ce pas? > > David W. Seaman, Ph.D. > http://personal.georgiasouthern.edu/~dseaman/Welcome.html > > Follow my Twitter poetry at dseaman40 > > YouTube video of my Venice Biennale poem: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DJQ5bOuJBN_k > > > > > > On 12 Aug, 2010,at 04:51 PM, Stephen Ellis =20 > wrote: > >> You must be totaled to be accurate. Is that like being 98.6% loaded? >> >> > Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 08:59:40 -0400 >> > From: urthona@VERIZON.NET >> > Subject: Re: competitions >> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> > >> > David W. Seaman, Ph.D. >> > http://personal.georgiasouthern.edu/~dseaman/Welcome.html >> > writes: >> > "While those of us in the grammar police (either official or > =20 >> clandestine) >> > like to disparage any errors, we must also recognize that usage =20 >> is > flexible >> > and evolving, It may be that there are myriad ways to express =20 >> things, >> > with a whole range of 'levels of usage.' Let's live with it and =20 >> enjoy > it." >> > >> > ...................................................................=20= >> ........................................ >> > >> > Ummm . . . : >> > >> > "a total" ("a"=3Dsingular) >> > "is" (singular) >> > "This place is a total wreck." >> > >> > "totals" (plural) >> > "are" (plural) >> > "Several totals are required to ensure accuracy." >> > >> > The newest proposal for national educational standards >> > in the U. S. recommends teaching grammatical agreement >> > in grade three (the first grammatical principle mentioned >> > in that set of standards). Many of my students in college >> > composition seem unable to distinguish between one and >> > more than one. Perhaps only a tiny neurological window >> > exists for hard-wiring agreement, but given recent work >> > in brain plasticity, I doubt it--though a fourteen-week >> > semester usually proves insufficient for rehab. As Yale >> > grad G. W. Bush wondered, "Is our children learning?" >> > Good enough? Enjoy that? >> > >> > ~ Dan Zimmerman, Ph.D. >> > Dzimmerman@middlesexcc.edu >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Angela Vasquez-Giroux" =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/=20 > welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/=20 > welcome.html George Bowering The world is my clam. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 16:03:07 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Seaman Subject: Re: competitions In-Reply-To: <20100814.010309.3916.14.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Depends (not the diapers) whether (weather) =EF=BB=BFyou and I are referri= ng to you and me.=0A=0ADavid W. Seaman, Ph.D.=0Ahttp://personal.georgiasou= thern.edu/~dseaman/Welcome.html=0A=0AFollow my Twitter poetry at dseaman40= =0A=0AYouTube video of my Venice Biennale poem: =0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/= watch?v=3DJQ5bOuJBN_k=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn 13 Aug, 2010,at 03:33 PM, steve = dalachinsky wrote:=0A=0A> why's everybody includin ahc= andemics say you and i when it's you and me=0A> and yes i know when to say= either or was that ether=0A>=0A>=0A> On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:55:11 -0700 D= avid Seaman =0A> writes:=0A> > Total... In the sentence= , "This place is a total wreck," isn't=0A> > "total" actually a modifier? = and the singular noun "a wreck?"=0A> >=0A> > Notice how the British say "T= he government are in session," when=0A> > Americans say "The government is= in session."=0A> >=0A> > I like Jim Andrews' poignant tale of the house f= ull of 40 years of=0A> > acculturation. It makes me think of my own 40+ ye= ars of teaching=0A> > French. There are some things I am learning to adjus= t and adjust to.=0A> > For one, I'm getting over my annoyance at the Frenc= h borrowings of=0A> > English. Why would they say "le listing" when they h= ave a perfectly=0A> > good "la liste?" For another, they tend to say "c'es= t" even when it=0A> > is followed by a plural complement.=0A> >=0A> > New = technologies can sometimes support good practices. Like some=0A> > French = correspondents, I almost gave up using accents in my emails,=0A> > because= the keystrokes are so tedious; now with iPad it is a=0A> > one-touch even= t to slide your finger to the selected accented=0A> > letter.=0A> >=0A> > = In my teaching, where students had? accused me of making them into=0A> > F= rench proofreaders, I am learning to refrain from interrupting to=0A> > co= rrect errors if they are communicating successfully. The point in=0A> > a = restaurant in France is to get fed, not to demonstrate impeccable=0A> > gr= ammar. Of course accuracy and fluent expression nourish in another=0A> > w= ay.....=0A> >=0A> > That said, we probably agree that it is valuable to kn= ow what the=0A> > accurate standard of a language is, in order to apprecia= te deviation=0A> > from it. N'est-ce pas?=0A> >=0A> > David W. Seaman, Ph.= D.=0A> > http://personal.georgiasouthern.edu/~dseaman/Welcome.html=0A> >=0A= > > Follow my Twitter poetry at dseaman40=0A> >=0A> > YouTube video of my = Venice Biennale poem:=0A> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DJQ5bOuJBN_k=0A= > >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> > On 12 Aug, 2010,at 04:51 PM, Stephen Ell= is =0A> > wrote:=0A> >=0A> > > You must be totaled = to be accurate. Is that like being 98.6%=0A> > loaded?=0A> > >=0A> > > > D= ate: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 08:59:40 -0400=0A> > > > From: urthona@VERIZON.NET=0A= > > > > Subject: Re: competitions=0A> > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.E= DU=0A> > > >=0A> > > > David W. Seaman, Ph.D.=0A> > > > http://personal.ge= orgiasouthern.edu/~dseaman/Welcome.html=0A> > > > writes:=0A> > > > "While= those of us in the grammar police (either official or=0A> > clandestine)=0A= > > > > like to disparage any errors, we must also recognize that usage=0A= > > is flexible=0A> > > > and evolving, It may be that there are myriad wa= ys to express=0A> > things,=0A> > > > with a whole range of 'levels of usa= ge.' Let's live with it and=0A> > enjoy it."=0A> > > >=0A> > > >=0A> >=0A>= .........................................................................= =0A> ..................................=0A> > > >=0A> > > > Ummm . . . :=0A= > > > >=0A> > > > "a total" ("a"=3Dsingular)=0A> > > > "is" (singular)=0A>= > > > "This place is a total wreck."=0A> > > >=0A> > > > "totals" (plural= )=0A> > > > "are" (plural)=0A> > > > "Several totals are required to ensur= e accuracy."=0A> > > >=0A> > > > The newest proposal for national educatio= nal standards=0A> > > > in the U. S. recommends teaching grammatical agree= ment=0A> > > > in grade three (the first grammatical principle mentioned=0A= > > > > in that set of standards). Many of my students in college=0A> > > = > composition seem unable to distinguish between one and=0A> > > > more th= an one. Perhaps only a tiny neurological window=0A> > > > exists for hard-= wiring agreement, but given recent work=0A> > > > in brain plasticity, I d= oubt it--though a fourteen-week=0A> > > > semester usually proves insuffic= ient for rehab. As Yale=0A> > > > grad G. W. Bush wondered, "Is our childr= en learning?"=0A> > > > Good enough? Enjoy that?=0A> > > >=0A> > > > ~ Dan= Zimmerman, Ph.D.=0A> > > > Dzimmerman@middlesexcc.edu=0A> > > >=0A> > > >= =0A> > > > ----- Original Message -----=0A> > > > From: "Angela Vasquez-Gi= roux" > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> > The Poetic= s List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check=0A> > guidelines & = sub/unsub info:=0A> > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A> >=0A= > >=0A>=0A>=0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> The Poetics List is moderat= ed & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://= epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 21:51:40 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: michael farrell Subject: Re: MOSQUES, CHURCHES, APES, CESSPOOLS In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi jared i like your tone id like to consider different tones as a way of nutting out something political tones leave me cold many radio tones grate close readings of voice (close listening - bernstein) get blocked by listen= ers horror at words spoken we complain about whats being done to language but not the ultimately conte= mptuous tones used to voice it id like to see a debate or an interview where a key word or discourse is fo= cused on but in relation to (contesting) the (habitual) tone being used q: "can you talk like a human being?" "maybe try talking about something un= related to politics first" > Date: Fri=2C 13 Aug 2010 23:38:01 -0600 > From: jschickl@HOTMAIL.COM > Subject: Re: MOSQUES=2C CHURCHES=2C APES=2C CESSPOOLS > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 > Dear Steve=2C Alan=2C and whomever else=2C >=20 > =20 >=20 > your posts =96 >=20 > =20 >=20 > Taking Steve=92s idea of the present / nearing =93End=2C=94 and > everything that suggests=2C as a baseline proposition=97and less concerne= d with the > accuracy of a truth than a thinking sensibility=97much less any washed se= t of > theory that doesn=92t offer something we=92ve missed=97how is one to thin= k of a > relevant poetry? What would a relevant > poetry be? What is a relevant poetry? Affirmation and change and hope a= nd things > of that ilk don=92t seem to go anywhere=97as according to the proposition= they are > inaccurate. Yet one persists insisting=85 >=20 > =20 >=20 > A far-flung surrealism is acutely popular=2C and so would be > apparently perceived as somehow relevant.=20 > And yet so is a staunch eco poetic.=20 > Alan=92s post of xenophobia=2C corruption and broken glass alongside the > systematicity of Pantomime Ape of Free Will speaks=2C perhaps=2C to where= the two > cohabitate. Nature nurtured. =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > In the end=2C and without much argument=2C I=92m inclined to see > this as formal questions. CA Conrad=92s > recent brief =93review=94 at Futurepost is peculiar=2C even if I=92m quit= e possibly > overstating my case=2C but it has me wondering:=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > =93The term =91Identity Politics=92 is bad enough. It=92s > meant to annihilate the efforts of those who literally bled for the room = they > made for us all. =91Identity Politics=92 makes a joke of it. It says > that all it ever was was wallowing in the filth and conspiracy of politic= s=2C a > game=2C it=92s all just been a game.=94 >=20 > =20 >=20 > While we do know politics would hardly change (have changed) > without politics. Part of the public > social artist=92s civil agenda is to force action=2C political. Using=2C= as with more faith in=2C artistic=2C > biologic means of a-political=2C corrosive substance. Any blood=2C here= =2C IS identity politics. Conrad=92s joke is perverse because=2C as I read= it=2C it can=92t achieve > itself=2C so that it does. It is literal > in its bleeding=2C sur-real and eco-logical=2C like a complete thought ab= out the > body. =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > And yet I don=92t think the passage=2C nor a review that =93wipes > me out=94 for that matter (=93evie=94=92s reply)=2C has intended this. I= t seems to bear the burden of its own > conviction. =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > (Here I should suggest the value of all this. Well=2C upon now thinking = about this which is > something I wasn=92t thinking about before=2C today I resisted not tossin= g some > recyclables. And I apologized to > someone for something. And cleaned up > the dog in the neighbor=92s yard. Etc=2C > coincidence perhaps. Which would be > such work to parcel out. Also against the > original proposition. Einstein=92s > definition of insanity.) >=20 > =20 >=20 > How is such a method=2C a process unintentional=2C defeated yet conjured= =2C > to be systemized=2C formalized=2C etc & et al discussed=2C articulated? = In a relevant way?=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > Just a question.=20 > Available on or off list. =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 22:48:11 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: {spam?} Forwarded article below on the Mosque controversies (fwd) In-Reply-To: <4762D30C-A468-48C0-A0AB-3A0195973343@muohio.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My god, Cris, you're becoming an American! At 01:57 PM 8/13/2010, you wrote: >I couldn't agree more about the morbidity of the mosque debates Alan >and by the statement that we are all immigrants > >i do not however think it is the sole purview of the "right" to >generate paranoia and hate speech (bearing in mind that "left" and >"right" are also troubling formulations with troubled histories) > >i've not seen Obama want to take down the fence with Mexico started >under the odious Bush in the south west (for example . . . he sent >more troops no less) nor actually close down Guantanamo (for >example . . . all empty rhetoric for 18 months already now) nor do >anything but escalate the war in Afghanistan (for example . . . >although i guess that's not surprising since Democrat presidents have >taken the US to war far more eagerly and frequently throughout the >twentieth century than even their Republican counterparts . . . >unless my math is just wrong, in the guise of the world's >police . . . vomit) nor repeal the Patriot Act (for example . . . an >act of insanity by GW Bush against which there was so much derision >focussed when i first came to live here in the US and which Obama has >re-ratified) nor address the hideous Department of Homeland >Security . . . ( a militarization of the State that builds >inexorably on surveillance and controls brought in my that arch Big >Brother sap J Edgar Hoover . . .) > > . . . > > >and then which judge made a serious move on Prop 8 just a couple of >weeks ago . . . a libertarian-leaning freedom of speech judge >appointed by Ronald Reagan . . (what is Obama doing to end Reagan's >appallingly debilitating and outright destructive War on Drugs?? btw) > > >attacks on the "right" by the "left" appear just as driven by >paranoia and characterized by stereotypical terms and forms of abuse >as attacks on the "left" by the "right" > >it is as often unions who campaign against immigration on the grounds >of competition for their members jobs and a previous wave of >immigrants which tries to block the next as it is nationalists and >xenophobes weaving their racist sentiments into planning and zoning >debates and whipping up fearful sentiment > > >a pox on both Democrats and on Republicans > > >xx > > >cris > > > >On Aug 12, 2010, at 4:26 PM, Alan Sondheim wrote: > >>I just have to say I'm ashamed of this country, and scared - too much >>hatred against illegal immigrants (WHICH WE ALL ARE), and now >>Islam. Some >>of the protests are all too familiar Kristallnacht in tone - on Jon >>Stewart, there was a newsclip of a community going to burn a copy >>of the >>Koran on 9/11. >> >>I can't argue this with anyone - I'm horrified and brought to tears >>by it. >>And we can't sit by and let a rabid racist right grow in this >>country - >>the affects have been seen repeatedly worldwide. >> >>- Alan >> >> >>---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:20:36 >>From: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com >>Reply-To: No Reply >>To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com >>Subject: [evol-psych] Digest Number 7327 >> >>There are 6 messages in this issue. >> >>Topics in this digest: >> >>1. News: Orangutan pantomime ~ elaborating the message >> From: Robert Karl Stonjek >> >>2a. Re: Holistic Darwinism: The new evolutionary paradigm and some >>impli >> From: Mike Tintner >>2b. Re: Holistic Darwinism: The new evolutionary paradigm and some >>impli >> From: Steve Moxon >> >>3. Bonobos and chimps >> From: mark hubey >> >>4. The Rise of America's Idiot Culture >> From: ED >> >>5. 8 Percent of U.S. Births to Illegal Immigrants >> From: R A Fonda >> >> >>Messages >>______________________________________________________________________ __ >>1. News: Orangutan pantomime ~ elaborating the message >> Posted by: "Robert Karl Stonjek" stonjek@ozemail.com.au >>rk_stonjek >> Date: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:07 am ((PDT)) >> >>Orangutan pantomime: elaborating the message >>Anne Russon1 and Kristin Andrews2 >> >>1Psychology Department, Glendon College, 2275 Bayview Avenue, >>Toronto, Ontario, >>Canada M4N 3M6 >>2Philosophy Department, York University, 4700 Keele St Toronto, >>Ontario, Canada >>M3J 1P3 >> >>*Author for correspondence (arusson@gl.yorku.ca). >>Abstract >>We present an exploratory study of forest-living orangutan >>pantomiming, i.e. >>gesturing in which they act out their meaning, focusing on its >>occurrence, >>communicative functions, and complexities. Studies show that >>captive great apes >>may elaborate messages if communication fails, and isolated reports >>suggest >>that great apes occasionally pantomime. We predicted forest-living >>orangutans >>would pantomime spontaneously to communicate, especially to >>elaborate after >>communication failures. Mining existing databases on free-ranging >>rehabilitant >>orangutans' behaviour identified 18 salient pantomimes. These >>pantomimes most >>often functioned as elaborations of failed requests, but also as >>deceptions and >>declaratives. Complexities identified include=20 >>multimodality, re- enactments of >>past events and several features of language (productivity, >>compositionality, >>systematicity). These findings confirm that free-ranging rehabilitant >>orangutans pantomime and use pantomime to elaborate on their mess >>ages. Further, they use pantomime for multiple functions and create >>complex >>pantomimes that can express propositionally structured content. >>Thus, orangutan >>pantomime serves as a medium for communication, not a particular >>function. >>Mining cases of complex great ape communication originally reported in >>functional terms may then yield more evidence of pantomime. >> >>Source: The Royal Society >>http://rsbl.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2010/08/05/=20 >>rsbl.2010.0564.abstract?papetoc >> >>Posted by >>Robert Karl Stonjek >> >> >> >> >>Messages in this topic (1) >>______________________________________________________________________ __ >>______________________________________________________________________ __ >>______________________________________________________________________ __ >>4. The Rise of America's Idiot Culture >> Posted by: "ED" seacrofter001@yahoo.com seacrofter001 >> Date: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:59 am ((PDT)) >> >> >> >> >>August 12, 2010 >>The Rise of America's Idiot Culture The Muslim Community Center at >>Ground Zero: a Manufactured Controversy >>By ANTHONY DiMAGGIO >> >>A substantial racist uproar is taking place in conservative America, >>particularly in right-wing radio and television. Reactionary pundits >>are drawing increased attention to plans to build an Islamic community >>center in downtown Manhattan, near Ground Zero. Republicans and >>conservatives have long been known to harbor racist views of Islam, >>although they're hardly alone in this. Many on the right frame the >>entire religion as radical, fundamentalist, and a threat to national >>security. In light of this pattern, there's little surprising about >>the right's most recent attack on Muslim Americans as a secret, >>under the radar threat. >> >>Islam has at times been portrayed on the right as the bedrock >>threat to >>American cultural values, and Muslims are depicted as uni- dimensionally >>set on overthrowing Christianity, enslaving the American public, and >>imposing "Sharia law." The last warning about "Sharia >>law" ? repeated by pundits like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh >>? among many others ? comes off as extremely ignorant, >>considering that the term "Sharia" itself means Islamic law. >>One should take the warnings of those who use the phrase "Sharia >>law" about as seriously as someone who masquerades as a legal >>scholar while talking about the importance of "American law >>law." >> >>The American right has also taken to paranoid conspiracy theories >>charging that Obama is a non-citizen. As the story goes, Obama was >>really born in Kenya, and his "take over" of the White House >>represents a secret victory for radical Islam, since, as we all >>"know," Obama is a closet Muslim terrorist who is allied with >>Osama bin Laden and other radical Islamists. About half of >>Republicans >>believe either that Obama is not a citizen or that they cannot be sure >>of whether he is really an American citizen or not. These views are >>shared by nearly 60 percent of self-designated Tea Party supporters. >> >>Of course, the nuances of the Islamic faith and the mainstream >>nature of >>the American Muslim community - the vast majority who oppose >>terrorism, >>fundamentalism, or repression of women - have been completely lost in >>the smug arrogance and incompetence of racists on the right. >> >>The reactionary right has long been opposed to anything related to >>Arab >>culture and the Muslim religion in New York and around the >>country. One >>infamous example is New York's Khalil Gibran Arabic language >>academy, the first of its kind for the city. Rabid right-wingers >>railed >>against it, especially those in the "stop the Madrassa" campaign >>(many of whom worried about the dangers of "Madrassa schools," >>while apparently too ignorant to realize that the word Madrassa itself >>means school). I argued with one of the leaders of this group on Alan >>Colmes' radio show a few years ago. She seemed un-phased by the >>reality that there was never any concrete evidence that the Khalil >>Gibran academy was teaching Islamic values. As she announced on the >>show (despite my scorn for her comments), the very fact that there was >>no visible evidence of an Islamic curriculum was proof of just how >>good >>the schools' administrators and teachers were of hiding it. Such >>paranoia demonstrated how far conservative extremism and racism have >>come in recent years. >> >>This brings us to the most recent "controversy" related to >>Islam: the Muslim community center planned for Manhattan. Right >>wingers >>in radio and at Fox News have gone into overdrive attacking it as a >>fundamental threat to the American way of life and to American >>security. >>Their racist diatribes have been hard for me to listen to, but they >>remain important to address, if for no other reason than so we can >>fight >>the ignorant assumptions behind them head on. >> >>Here's a quick review of some of the most outrageous comments made >>in the American media: >> >>- On Fox News, former Congressman Newt Gingrich attacked the community >>center for its planned location "right at the edge of a place where, >>let's be clear, thousands of Americans were killed in an attack by >>radical Islamists." On his website, Gingrich announced that >>"there should be no mosque near ground zero in New York so long as >>there are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia." >>Gingrich's choice to spotlight the radical fundamentalist regime of >>Saudi Arabia (hypocritically supported by Gingrich himself when he was >>Speaker of the House in the 1990s) ? while neglecting moderate and >>secular governments in the Muslim world, speaks volumes about what he >>considers to be the "essence" of Islam. Gingrich's language >>is truly abhorrent; he frames those supporting the community center in >>Manhattan as part of the same "they" as the Islamic >>fundamentalists who perpetrated the 9-11 attacks. As far as >>Gingrich is >>concerned, there are no distinctions to be made in the monolithic >>"threat" that is the entire U.S. and world Muslim community. >> >>- On Fox, Sarah Palin drew attention to "those innocent victims, >>those families of those who were killed in the 9-11 tragedy, it >>saddens >>me to think that people don't understand what building this mosque >>at such hallowed ground really represents." Inextricably linked to >>Palin's warnings is the assumption that the community center >>represents a single, overarching fifth column threat from American >>Muslims. This much was clear when she characterized its construction >>as "an unnecessary provocation" against the people of New York >>and the American people more generally. >> >>- Fox News host Sean Hannity claimed that the "Iman" supporting >>the building of the community center is a figure who "supports what >>happened on 9/11" and "praises Osama bin Laden." Hannity, >>of course, failed to present any evidence linking community center >>supporters to defending the 9/11 attacks, but this hardly seemed to >>matter to him or his guest, Jay Seculow (of the American Center for >>Law >>and Justice), who complained that "you don't get to build a >>mosque on a site that's part of ground zero" because "that >>would be like putting at Pearl Harbor a monument of the Kamikaze >>pilots >>who tried to destroy U.S. troops, you just don't do that." In >>this case, Muslim Americans who had nothing to do with 9/11 are >>apparently the equivalent of Japanese soldiers who killed Americans >>during World War II. >> >>- Right wing radio icon Rush Limbaugh, not to be outdone, warned that >>"the terrorists win" if the community center successfully moves >>forward. Limbaugh continued, posing a hypothetical comparing Muslim >>Americans to those who lynched blacks in the post Civil War era: >>"Let me ask you: What would happen, do you think, if the Ku Klux >>Klan wanted to establish a memorial at Gettysburg?" Limbaugh also >>employed a World War II analogy, likening the dangers of the community >>center to the destruction brought upon Japan by U.S. nuclear weapons: >>"Let's go to Hiroshima and Nagasaki and let's build giant >>monuments in the shape of nuclear bombs and call it the Manhattan >>Project. I mean you'd have Americans objecting to that, >>wouldn't you?" >> >>What is most disturbing about the manufactured controversy >>involving the >>community center is the blatant arrogance and stupidity of the >>right in >>its warnings of an imminent "threat." Anyone who spends thirty >>seconds researching the Cordoba Group, the organization responsible >>for >>promoting the community center, would know that the group's >>representative, Feisal Abdul Rauf (targeted in Hannity attacks as >>pro-bin Laden and pro-9/11) is actually a public critic of Osama bin >>Laden and the 9/11 attacks, and a vocal supporter of improving >>relations >>between the U.S. and the Muslim world. None of this is conveyed in >>any >>of the right-wing slander above, however, as these pundits are content >>to showcase their ignorance regarding the basic facts surrounding the >>community center fiasco they "authoritatively" "report" >>on. >> >>I should note that all of the pundits above premise their attacks >>on the >>Manhattan community center with statements that promotion of religious >>tolerance and cultural diversity are important and necessary. These >>claims, however, mean nothing when they are followed by fear mongering >>and attacks on Muslims as part of an all-encompassing threat that >>derives from some sort of uniform "Muslim culture" ? one >>that is seen as constituting a danger to U.S. security and the >>American >>way of life. These pundits refuse to distinguish between the tiny >>minority of those throughout the world who support terrorism in the >>name >>of Islam and the vast majority of Muslims who reject those beliefs. >>Their reluctance to take a reasonable, level-headed approach to the >>study of the Muslim faith is an indicator of their fanaticism, >>religious >>bigotry, and racism. >> >>Rather than asking whether the Manhattan community center represents a >>threat, we should be asking ourselves what happened to our country >>when >>national discourse is hijacked by those who not only have no >>interest in >>facts, but see them as an active roadblock to advancing their racist >>agendas. The blatant racism and incompetence of those attacking the >>Manhattan community center should be obvious enough to those who pride >>themselves in promoting multi-culturalism, racial diversity, and >>respect >>for religious freedom. That the racist right remains so prominent in >>national television and radio is a sign, more than anything else, >>of the >>steep deterioration of American political discourse. >> >>Anthony DiMaggio is the editor of media-ocracy (www.media-ocracy.com >> > ), a daily online magazine devoted >>to the >>study of media, public opinion, and current events. He has taught >>U.S. >>and Global Politics at Illinois State University and North Central >>College, and is the author of When Media Goes to War >> >>(2010) and Mass Media, Mass Propaganda >> >>(2008). He can be reached at: mediaocracy@gmail.com >> >> >>http://www.counterpunch.org/dimaggio08122010.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Messages in this topic (1) >>______________________________________________________________________ __ >>______________________________________________________________________ __ >>5. 8 Percent of U.S. Births to Illegal Immigrants >> Posted by: "R A Fonda" rafonda@verizon.net rafonda2000 >> Date: Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:01 am ((PDT)) >> >> >> Study: 8 Percent of U.S. Births to Illegal Immigrants >> >> >> Pew Hispanic Center Report Sheds Light on Americans at >>Center of >> Birthright Citizenship Debate >> >> >> By DEVIN DWYER >> >>*WASHINGTON, August 11, 2010---* >> >>Eight percent of all babies born in the U.S. in 2008 belonged to >>illegal >>immigrant >>>america-shadows-abc-news-special-series/story?id=3D11099873> >>parents, according to a groundbreaking analysis of U.S. Census Bureau >>data by the Pew Hispanic Center. Under the 14th amendment to the >>Constitution, each child obtained U.S. citizenship at birth while >>one or >>both of the parents remained undocumented. >> >>The study >>sheds >>new light on a group of Americans at the center of a hot political >>debate >>>amendment-republican-senators-explore-change/story?id=3D11313973> >>in recent weeks. Some Republican lawmakers have proposed revising >>birthright citizenship to bar U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants >>from obtaining legal status. >> >>Pew estimates 340,000 of the 4.3 million newborns in U.S. hospitals in >>2008 belonged to illegal immigrant parents. In total, 4 million >>U.S.-born, citizen children of illegal immigrants >>>citizenship-abroad/story?id=3D10359956> >>currently live in the country, according to the study. >> >>The study is the most comprehensive, non-partisan research to date on >>children of illegal immigrants living in the U.S. and adds important >>context, and frames the ongoing debate. Previously there have been few >>reliable estimates of annual U.S. births to illegal immigrants. >> >>Critics of birthright citizenship >>>tourism/story?id=3D11322850&page=3D1> >>have expressed concern over the burgeoning size of America's illegal >>immigrant >>>abc-news-special-series/story?id=3D11099873> >>population, estimated at 10.8 million and whose offspring in the U.S. >>would be able to sponsor their parents and relatives for legal >>residency. The children are sometimes referred to as anchor babies. >> >>"Birthright citizenship I think is a mistake," said Republican Sen. >>Lindsey Graham of South Carolina. "We should change our >>Constitution and >>say if you come here illegally and you have a child, that child's >>automatically not a citizen." >> >>Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and other leading Republicans, >>including Arizona senators Jon Kyl and John McCain, have indicated an >>openness to exploring the 14th Amendment issue raised by Sen. Graham. >>But some harbor deep reservations about changing the Constitution. >> >>"It's a rather unseemly business and I think we ought to have some >>hearings about it," McConnell said of the practice of illegal >>immigrant >>mothers giving birth in the U.S. >> >>"Congressional hearings are always warranted when members of Congress >>raise the issue of amending our Constitution," said McCain in a >>statement. "I believe that the Constitution is a strong, complete and >>carefully crafted document that has successfully governed our >>nation for >>centuries and any proposal to amend the Constitution should receive >>extensive and thoughtful consideration." >> >> >> Birthright Citizenship Debate: Election Year Politics? >> >>But some lawmakers are calling the push to revise the 14th Amendment >>nothing but a political stunt. >> >>"I think it's good to take a look at all of our constitutional >>amendments. But I'll tell you something: if you think it's a >>coincidence >>that this sudden discussion begins three months before an election, >>you'd be very, very mistaken," said Vermont Independent Sen. Bernie >>Sanders on ABC's "Top Line" >>>percent-political-11314073>. >> >> >>Pennsylvannia Democratic Sen. Arlen Specter, whose parents were >>immigrants to the U.S., has called U.S. citizenship by birth a >>fundamental right. >> >>"The political pandering on the immigration issue has reached the >>hysterical level," Specter told ABC News. "To try to direct the effort >>at the children born in this country is just preposterous... How can >>newborn children protect themselves if politicians want to gain >>political gain... I would be shocked if this idea would gain political >>traction, but I'm being shocked on a daily basis by the United States >>Senate." >> >> >> History of Birthright and the 14th Amendment >> >>The 14th Amendment to the Constitution, which was enacted after the >>Civil War to grant citizenship to descendants of slaves, reads: "All >>persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the >>jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the >>state >>wherein they reside." >> >>"The drafter of the 14th Amendment provision on citizenship did make a >>statement that it would not include foreigners or aliens," said George >>Washington University constitutional law professor Jonathan Turley. >>"However, other senators made it clear that they believed that this >>provision guaranteed birthright citizenship." >> >>The courts have repeatedly ruled that people who are born in the U.S. >>are American citizens and if Congress passed a law changing that, it >>would likely be repealed, experts say. >> >>The Supreme Court has >>only addressed the issue once, clarifying in 1898 that citizenship >>does >>apply to U.S.-born children of legal immigrants who have yet to become >>citizens. >> >>"The legislative history may be a little mixed, but the language of >>the >>amendment seems to speak clearly in favor of birthright citizenship, >>regardless of what the intent may have been," Turley said. >> >>The United States is one of the few remaining countries to grant >>citizenship to all children born on its soil. The United Kingdom, >>Ireland, India and Australia, among others, have since revised their >>birthright laws, no longer allowing every child born on their soil to >>get citizenship. >> >> >> >> >> >>Messages in this topic (1) >> >> >> >> >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> >><*> To visit your group on the web, go to: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evolutionary-psychology/ >> >><*> Your email settings: >> Digest Email | Traditional >> >><*> To change settings online go to: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evolutionary-psychology/join >> (Yahoo! ID required) >> >><*> To change settings via email: >> evolutionary-psychology-normal@yahoogroups.com >> evolutionary-psychology-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com >> >><*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> evolutionary-psychology-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >><*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- >> >>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ welcome.html > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept=20 >all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 >http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a=20 lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the=20 poet alive in every sense of the word, and=20 through every one of his senses. Instead of=20 missing a beat or a part, Weiss=92 fragments are=20 like Chekhov=92s short stories=ADthe more that gets=20 left out, the more they seem to contain=85 One can=20 hear echoes from all the various=20 ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its=20 core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment=20 is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure=20 musical threnody=85[it] opens a window, not only=20 into a mind, but a person, a personality, this=20 human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket.=20 http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:18:13 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: abbey lincoln In-Reply-To: <20100815.142206.3436.6.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit she was esp a great composer & her ex, max roach, a great drummer see her interview on UTube about meeting billy holiday On 8/15/10 4:52 AM, "steve dalachinsky" wrote: > great songstress composer poet has passed away at age 80 > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:28:10 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: American Book Award for Poems for the Millennium In-Reply-To: <8DE3A8A23105488FBCAB1EA720AAD5E5@ownerPC> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This is fantastic, Jerome. You know I had hoped to review the book, having worked it when a student did an independent study with me, but I haven't been up to it. I am happy to hear that the award is justly given. On 8/15/10 4:53 PM, "Jerome Rothenberg" wrote: > In advance of an official announcement, this is to report that Poems for the > Millennium, volume 3: The University of California Book of Romantic and > Postromantic Poetry, edited by myself and Jeffrey Robinson, will receive a > 2010 American Book Award from the Before Columbus Foundation. It's my > understanding that there will be fourteen such awards over all, including > Amiri Baraka's The Afro-American Soul of American Classical Music and Dave > Eggers' non-fiction narrative Zeitoun, both previously announced, as well as a > lifetime achievement award for our old comrade-in-poetry Quincy Troupe. > > The nominating statement for Poems for the Millennium reads as follows: > > "Modernism rejected Romanticism in the way that one political leader rejects > another-not because it is any different but because it wishes to win the same > audience. This book demonstrates that the only thing that happened in > Modernism was that a door opened onto still another aspect of the immense > cultural experiment that Romanticism was-or as Rothenberg and Robinson might > insist, as Romanticisms were (are). Central issues were what Rousseau called > conscience de soi, self-awareness (but a self-awareness which deliberately did > not separate itself from 'world'), a new interest in ethnicity and the local, > and a shift from thinking of poetry as a 'craft' and of the poet as 'maker,' > to thinking of it as a provoker of consciousness-even a creator of > consciousness-and of the poet as Bard, Shaman. To know the work so carefully, > lovingly and brilliantly assembled in this book is to know ourselves in a new > and newly conscious way." > > An awards ceremony and reception will take place on Sunday, September 19th > from 1-4 p.m. at the Koret Auditorium, San Francisco Main Library, 100 Larkin > Street, San Francisco, CA. > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:38:35 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: End Times (Green) poetics, or Adopt A Gringo In-Reply-To: <20100814.015557.3916.60.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable They remain rich. They're not vulnerable, at least not in a $$$ sense. But = has the market gone past 11 thousand since 9/11?=A0 I don't give a damn abo= ut the rich. What do they contribute? =A0 --- On Fri, 8/13/10, steve dalachinsky wrote: From: steve dalachinsky Subject: Re: End Times (Green) poetics, or Adopt A Gringo To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Friday, August 13, 2010, 4:25 PM the rich are no longer gettin richer ???=A0 that's a laugh On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 13:17:48 -0700 steve russell writes: > Been talking with my Green Party D.C. friends. > It really does seem as if the End has finally arrived and will be=20 > unfolding in=20 > many interesting ways as the 1st decade of century 21 comes to a=20 > close. >=20 > I mean, even the Rich are no longer getting richer.=20 > It's that bad. > & the enviroment, as everyone knows, is a cesspool.=20 >=20 > So I'm wondering: Where are the sustainable communities? > Artist, especially, should think very hard.=20 >=20 > I haven't done the research, but I wonder if there's a Native=20 > American Tribe=20 > that has an Adopt a Gringo program. I've been rereading my Wendell=20 > Berry and I'm=20 > almost certain (I'm not good with absolutes) that the original=20 > natives of this=20 > country will have a huge leg up when things finally collapse.Run ...=20 > to the=20 > woods ... or someplace safe.=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check=20 > guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=20 >=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:43:31 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Stephen Baraban Subject: One Writes Potatoe, Another Writes Pota[h]to In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii One Writes Potatoe, Another Writes Pota{h}to OR, The Argument Need not be Souring There now is a list-mate named Bowering, Who might think that the others are cowering; Though the offense be slight, If the usage ain't right, He'll rim-shot a scorn that is towering. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:51:10 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: American Book Award for Poems for the Millennium In-Reply-To: <8DE3A8A23105488FBCAB1EA720AAD5E5@ownerPC> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Richly deserved. At 04:53 PM 8/15/2010, you wrote: >In advance of an official announcement, this is=20 >to report that Poems for the Millennium, volume=20 >3: The University of California Book of Romantic=20 >and Postromantic Poetry, edited by myself and=20 >Jeffrey Robinson, will receive a 2010 American=20 >Book Award from the Before Columbus=20 >Foundation. It's my understanding that there=20 >will be fourteen such awards over all, including=20 >Amiri Baraka's The Afro-American Soul of=20 >American Classical Music and Dave Eggers'=20 >non-fiction narrative Zeitoun, both previously=20 >announced, as well as a lifetime achievement=20 >award for our old comrade-in-poetry Quincy Troupe. > >The nominating statement for Poems for the Millennium reads as follows: > > "Modernism rejected Romanticism in the way=20 > that one political leader rejects another-not=20 > because it is any different but because it=20 > wishes to win the same audience. This book=20 > demonstrates that the only thing that happened=20 > in Modernism was that a door opened onto still=20 > another aspect of the immense cultural=20 > experiment that Romanticism was-or as=20 > Rothenberg and Robinson might insist, as=20 > Romanticisms were (are). Central issues were=20 > what Rousseau called conscience de soi,=20 > self-awareness (but a self-awareness which=20 > deliberately did not separate itself from=20 > 'world'), a new interest in ethnicity and the=20 > local, and a shift from thinking of poetry as a=20 > 'craft' and of the poet as 'maker,' to thinking=20 > of it as a provoker of consciousness-even a=20 > creator of consciousness-and of the poet as=20 > Bard, Shaman. To know the work so carefully,=20 > lovingly and brilliantly assembled in this book=20 > is to know ourselves in a new and newly conscious way." > >An awards ceremony and reception will take place=20 >on Sunday, September 19th from 1-4 p.m. at the=20 >Koret Auditorium, San Francisco Main Library,=20 >100 Larkin Street, San Francisco, CA. > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept=20 >all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 >http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a=20 lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the=20 poet alive in every sense of the word, and=20 through every one of his senses. Instead of=20 missing a beat or a part, Weiss=92 fragments are=20 like Chekhov=92s short stories=ADthe more that gets=20 left out, the more they seem to contain=85 One can=20 hear echoes from all the various=20 ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its=20 core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment=20 is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure=20 musical threnody=85[it] opens a window, not only=20 into a mind, but a person, a personality, this=20 human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket.=20 http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 15:02:29 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: American Book Award for Poems for the Millennium In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable that's wonderful. hope to assign it for contemporary poetry class next year. x mair=E9ad On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Ruth Lepson wrote= : > This is fantastic, Jerome. You know I had hoped to review the book, havin= g > worked it when a student did an independent study with me, but I haven't > been up to it. I am happy to hear that the award is justly given. > > > On 8/15/10 4:53 PM, "Jerome Rothenberg" wrote: > > > In advance of an official announcement, this is to report that Poems fo= r > the > > Millennium, volume 3: The University of California Book of Romantic and > > Postromantic Poetry, edited by myself and Jeffrey Robinson, will receiv= e > a > > 2010 American Book Award from the Before Columbus Foundation. It's my > > understanding that there will be fourteen such awards over all, includi= ng > > Amiri Baraka's The Afro-American Soul of American Classical Music and > Dave > > Eggers' non-fiction narrative Zeitoun, both previously announced, as we= ll > as a > > lifetime achievement award for our old comrade-in-poetry Quincy Troupe. > > > > The nominating statement for Poems for the Millennium reads as follows: > > > > "Modernism rejected Romanticism in the way that one political leader > rejects > > another-not because it is any different but because it wishes to win th= e > same > > audience. This book demonstrates that the only thing that happened in > > Modernism was that a door opened onto still another aspect of the immen= se > > cultural experiment that Romanticism was-or as Rothenberg and Robinson > might > > insist, as Romanticisms were (are). Central issues were what Rousseau > called > > conscience de soi, self-awareness (but a self-awareness which > deliberately did > > not separate itself from 'world'), a new interest in ethnicity and the > local, > > and a shift from thinking of poetry as a 'craft' and of the poet as > 'maker,' > > to thinking of it as a provoker of consciousness-even a creator of > > consciousness-and of the poet as Bard, Shaman. To know the work so > carefully, > > lovingly and brilliantly assembled in this book is to know ourselves in= a > new > > and newly conscious way." > > > > An awards ceremony and reception will take place on Sunday, September > 19th > > from 1-4 p.m. at the Koret Auditorium, San Francisco Main Library, 100 > Larkin > > Street, San Francisco, CA. > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & > > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > --=20 http://www.whatsleftofheaven.com/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 15:03:10 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: American Book Award for Poems for the Millennium In-Reply-To: <8DE3A8A23105488FBCAB1EA720AAD5E5@ownerPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Jerome and Jeffrey, Well earned congratulations. The nominating statement is entirely to the point. Ciao, Murat On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Jerome Rothenberg wrote: > In advance of an official announcement, this is to report that Poems for > the Millennium, volume 3: The University of California Book of Romantic and > Postromantic Poetry, edited by myself and Jeffrey Robinson, will receive a > 2010 American Book Award from the Before Columbus Foundation. It's my > understanding that there will be fourteen such awards over all, including > Amiri Baraka's The Afro-American Soul of American Classical Music and Dave > Eggers' non-fiction narrative Zeitoun, both previously announced, as well as > a lifetime achievement award for our old comrade-in-poetry Quincy Troupe. > Jer > The nominating statement for Poems for the Millennium reads as follows: > > "Modernism rejected Romanticism in the way that one political leader > rejects another-not because it is any different but because it wishes to win > the same audience. This book demonstrates that the only thing that happened > in Modernism was that a door opened onto still another aspect of the immense > cultural experiment that Romanticism was-or as Rothenberg and Robinson might > insist, as Romanticisms were (are). Central issues were what Rousseau called > conscience de soi, self-awareness (but a self-awareness which deliberately > did not separate itself from 'world'), a new interest in ethnicity and the > local, and a shift from thinking of poetry as a 'craft' and of the poet as > 'maker,' to thinking of it as a provoker of consciousness-even a creator of > consciousness-and of the poet as Bard, Shaman. To know the work so > carefully, lovingly and brilliantly assembled in this book is to know > ourselves in a new and newly conscious way." > > An awards ceremony and reception will take place on Sunday, September 19th > from 1-4 p.m. at the Koret Auditorium, San Francisco Main Library, 100 > Larkin Street, San Francisco, CA. > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 12:03:38 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: MOSQUES, CHURCHES, APES, CESSPOOLS In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wait a minute. You didn't clean up AFTER the dog. You actually cleaned=C2= =A0 THE DOG.=20 I'm speechless. That sort of thing doesn't happen in my neighborhood.=20 =C2=A0 --- On Sat, 8/14/10, Jared Schickling wrote: From: Jared Schickling Subject: Re: MOSQUES, CHURCHES, APES, CESSPOOLS To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Saturday, August 14, 2010, 1:38 AM Dear Steve, Alan, and whomever else, your posts =E2=80=93 Taking Steve=E2=80=99s idea of the present / nearing =E2=80=9CEnd,=E2=80=9D= and everything that suggests, as a baseline proposition=E2=80=94and less concer= ned with the accuracy of a truth than a thinking sensibility=E2=80=94much less any washe= d set of theory that doesn=E2=80=99t offer something we=E2=80=99ve missed=E2=80=94ho= w is one to think of a relevant poetry?=C2=A0 What would a relevant poetry be?=C2=A0 What is a relevant poetry?=C2=A0 Affirmation and change an= d hope and things of that ilk don=E2=80=99t seem to go anywhere=E2=80=94as according to the p= roposition they are inaccurate.=C2=A0 Yet one persists insisting=E2=80=A6 A far-flung surrealism is acutely popular, and so would be apparently perceived as somehow relevant.=20 And yet so is a staunch eco poetic.=20 Alan=E2=80=99s post of xenophobia, corruption and broken glass alongside th= e systematicity of Pantomime Ape of Free Will speaks, perhaps, to where the t= wo cohabitate.=C2=A0 Nature nurtured.=C2=A0=20 In the end, and without much argument, I=E2=80=99m inclined to see this as formal questions.=C2=A0 CA Conrad=E2=80=99s recent brief =E2=80=9Creview=E2=80=9D at Futurepost is peculiar, even if I= =E2=80=99m quite possibly overstating my case, but it has me wondering:=20 =E2=80=9CThe term =E2=80=98Identity Politics=E2=80=99 is bad enough.=C2=A0 = It=E2=80=99s meant to annihilate the efforts of those who literally bled for the room th= ey made for us all.=C2=A0 =E2=80=98Identity Politics=E2=80=99 makes a joke of = it.=C2=A0 It says that all it ever was was wallowing in the filth and conspiracy of politics,= a game, it=E2=80=99s all just been a game.=E2=80=9D While we do know politics would hardly change (have changed) without politics.=C2=A0 Part of the public social artist=E2=80=99s civil agenda is to force action, political.=C2=A0 U= sing, as with more faith in, artistic, biologic means of a-political, corrosive substance.=C2=A0 Any blood, here, = IS identity politics.=C2=A0 Conrad=E2=80=99s joke is perverse because, as I= read it, it can=E2=80=99t achieve itself, so that it does.=C2=A0 It is literal in its bleeding, sur-real and eco-logical, like a complete thought about th= e body.=C2=A0=20 And yet I don=E2=80=99t think the passage, nor a review that =E2=80=9Cwipes me out=E2=80=9D for that matter (=E2=80=9Cevie=E2=80=9D=E2=80=99s reply), h= as intended this.=C2=A0 It seems to bear the burden of its own conviction.=C2=A0=20 (Here I should suggest the value of all this.=C2=A0 Well, upon now thinking= about this which is something I wasn=E2=80=99t thinking about before, today I resisted not toss= ing some recyclables.=C2=A0 And I apologized to someone for something.=C2=A0 And cleaned up the dog in the neighbor=E2=80=99s yard.=C2=A0 Etc, coincidence perhaps.=C2=A0 Which would be such work to parcel out.=C2=A0 Also against the original proposition.=C2=A0 Einstein=E2=80=99s definition of insanity.) How is such a method, a process unintentional, defeated yet conjured, to be systemized, formalized, etc & et al discussed, articulated?=C2=A0 In = a relevant way?=20 Just a question.=20 Available on or off list.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 15:07:29 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: MOSQUES, CHURCHES, APES, CESSPOOLS In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed isn't that what we all do? talk about things unrelated to politics? have you seen Fox news lately? how long should we be delicate? if anyone has ideas of direct action, cultural or otherwise, please backchannel On Sun, 15 Aug 2010, michael farrell wrote: > hi jared > > i like your tone > > id like to consider different tones as a way of nutting out something > > political tones leave me cold > > many radio tones grate > > close readings of voice (close listening - bernstein) get blocked by listeners horror at words spoken > > we complain about whats being done to language but not the ultimately contemptuous tones used to voice it > > id like to see a debate or an interview where a key word or discourse is > focused on but in relation to (contesting) the (habitual) tone being > used > > q: "can you talk like a human being?" "maybe try talking about something unrelated to politics first" > > > > > > >> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 23:38:01 -0600 >> From: jschickl@HOTMAIL.COM >> Subject: Re: MOSQUES, CHURCHES, APES, CESSPOOLS >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> >> Dear Steve, Alan, and whomever else, >> >> >> >> your posts ? >> >> >> >> Taking Steve?s idea of the present / nearing ?End,? and >> everything that suggests, as a baseline proposition?and less concerned with the >> accuracy of a truth than a thinking sensibility?much less any washed set of >> theory that doesn?t offer something we?ve missed?how is one to think of a >> relevant poetry? What would a relevant >> poetry be? What is a relevant poetry? Affirmation and change and hope and things >> of that ilk don?t seem to go anywhere?as according to the proposition they are >> inaccurate. Yet one persists insisting? >> >> >> >> A far-flung surrealism is acutely popular, and so would be >> apparently perceived as somehow relevant. >> And yet so is a staunch eco poetic. >> Alan?s post of xenophobia, corruption and broken glass alongside the >> systematicity of Pantomime Ape of Free Will speaks, perhaps, to where the two >> cohabitate. Nature nurtured. >> >> >> >> In the end, and without much argument, I?m inclined to see >> this as formal questions. CA Conrad?s >> recent brief ?review? at Futurepost is peculiar, even if I?m quite possibly >> overstating my case, but it has me wondering: >> >> >> >> ?The term ?Identity Politics? is bad enough. It?s >> meant to annihilate the efforts of those who literally bled for the room they >> made for us all. ?Identity Politics? makes a joke of it. It says >> that all it ever was was wallowing in the filth and conspiracy of politics, a >> game, it?s all just been a game.? >> >> >> >> While we do know politics would hardly change (have changed) >> without politics. Part of the public >> social artist?s civil agenda is to force action, political. Using, as with more faith in, artistic, >> biologic means of a-political, corrosive substance. Any blood, here, IS identity politics. Conrad?s joke is perverse because, as I read it, it can?t achieve >> itself, so that it does. It is literal >> in its bleeding, sur-real and eco-logical, like a complete thought about the >> body. >> >> >> >> And yet I don?t think the passage, nor a review that ?wipes >> me out? for that matter (?evie??s reply), has intended this. It seems to bear the burden of its own >> conviction. >> >> >> >> (Here I should suggest the value of all this. Well, upon now thinking about this which is >> something I wasn?t thinking about before, today I resisted not tossing some >> recyclables. And I apologized to >> someone for something. And cleaned up >> the dog in the neighbor?s yard. Etc, >> coincidence perhaps. Which would be >> such work to parcel out. Also against the >> original proposition. Einstein?s >> definition of insanity.) >> >> >> >> How is such a method, a process unintentional, defeated yet conjured, >> to be systemized, formalized, etc & et al discussed, articulated? In a relevant way? >> >> >> >> Just a question. >> Available on or off list. >> >> >> >> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 15:42:13 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: American Book Award for Poems for the Millennium In-Reply-To: <8DE3A8A23105488FBCAB1EA720AAD5E5@ownerPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mazel Tov, Jerry. Well-deserved indeed. Jerome Rothenberg wrote: > In advance of an official announcement, this is to report that Poems fo= r the Millennium, volume 3: The University of California Book of Romantic= and Postromantic Poetry, edited by myself and Jeffrey Robinson, will rec= eive a 2010 American Book Award from the Before Columbus Foundation. It'= s my understanding that there will be fourteen such awards over all, incl= uding Amiri Baraka's The Afro-American Soul of American Classical Music a= nd Dave Eggers' non-fiction narrative Zeitoun, both previously announced,= as well as a lifetime achievement award for our old comrade-in-poetry Qu= incy Troupe.=20 > > The nominating statement for Poems for the Millennium reads as follows:= > > "Modernism rejected Romanticism in the way that one political leader r= ejects another-not because it is any different but because it wishes to w= in the same audience. This book demonstrates that the only thing that hap= pened in Modernism was that a door opened onto still another aspect of th= e immense cultural experiment that Romanticism was-or as Rothenberg and R= obinson might insist, as Romanticisms were (are). Central issues were wha= t Rousseau called conscience de soi, self-awareness (but a self-awareness= which deliberately did not separate itself from 'world'), a new interest= in ethnicity and the local, and a shift from thinking of poetry as a 'cr= aft' and of the poet as 'maker,' to thinking of it as a provoker of consc= iousness-even a creator of consciousness-and of the poet as Bard, Shaman.= To know the work so carefully, lovingly and brilliantly assembled in thi= s book is to know ourselves in a new and newly conscious way." > > An awards ceremony and reception will take place on Sunday, September 1= 9th from 1-4 p.m. at the Koret Auditorium, San Francisco Main Library, 10= 0 Larkin Street, San Francisco, CA. > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidel= ines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 00:14:26 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jesse Glass Subject: Re: American Book Award for Poems for the Millennium In-Reply-To: <<8DE3A8A23105488FBCAB1EA720AAD5E5@ownerPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Congratulations! Fantastic book. Jess On 8/15/2010, "Jerome Rothenberg" wrote: >In advance of an official announcement, this is to report that Poems for the Millennium, volume 3: The University of California Book of Romantic and Postromantic Poetry, edited by myself and Jeffrey Robinson, will receive a 2010 American Book Award from the Before Columbus Foundation. It's my understanding that there will be fourteen such awards over all, including Amiri Baraka's The Afro-American Soul of American Classical Music and Dave Eggers' non-fiction narrative Zeitoun, both previously announced, as well as a lifetime achievement award for our old comrade-in-poetry Quincy Troupe. > >The nominating statement for Poems for the Millennium reads as follows: > > "Modernism rejected Romanticism in the way that one political leader rejects another-not because it is any different but because it wishes to win the same audience. This book demonstrates that the only thing that happened in Modernism was that a door opened onto still another aspect of the immense cultural experiment that Romanticism was-or as Rothenberg and Robinson might insist, as Romanticisms were (are). Central issues were what Rousseau called conscience de soi, self-awareness (but a self-awareness which deliberately did not separate itself from 'world'), a new interest in ethnicity and the local, and a shift from thinking of poetry as a 'craft' and of the poet as 'maker,' to thinking of it as a provoker of consciousness-even a creator of consciousness-and of the poet as Bard, Shaman. To know the work so carefully, lovingly and brilliantly assembled in this book is to know ourselves in a new and newly conscious way." > >An awards ceremony and reception will take place on Sunday, September 19th from 1-4 p.m. at the Koret Auditorium, San Francisco Main Library, 100 Larkin Street, San Francisco, CA. > >================================== >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 22:56:57 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jared Schickling Subject: Re: MOSQUES, CHURCHES, APES, CESSPOOLS In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Michael=2C and Tyrone=2C I appreciate it. But I don't understand the question. Truly. Tyrone you = did not ask a question. So Michael. Is there some thing I do=2C something= wonderful it must be=2C that isn't political? Economic? I'll anticipate = your answer=2C at the risk of being wrong=2C and argue=2C that's the purpos= e of trying an angle. i think emily dickinson said that. and that's how m= osquitoes win. Only after they're there are you free to swat them. I also= remember something from Foucault somewhere=2C on a Facebook post (serious)= =2C when asked why he must always make everything political. His response= =2C which I'm butchering=2C involved something about caring for that which = of the greatest consequence for the greatest number. The reason I respond in this way is because I=92m not all that singular=2C and because this is a public forum.=20 I believe in these things like the poem but not like the poetry of the poem=2C it=92s not ideal like that=2C but I do believe that someone sits do= wn to all kinds of pages and may return transformed.=20 Or not transformed. Or transformed by degrees with all kinds of transformations. These if at all = are mostly incremental. What lasting import. But what does permanent tran= sformation require. I think I read that on a listserv. That=92s the difference even if a little beside the point between popular and literary literatures=3B the o= ne returns you equipped differently. So what does that mean. Do I recycle? Yes=3B but it=92s piling up rather quickly as I=92m rather lazy in these things which I don=92t throw away. A= m I still vegan? I was but my wife=92s a chef=2C and I couldn=92t be so lu= cky. And I like my share in neighbor cow. Do I clean up the dog on the wa= lk like I should? Mow the grass? (cf. lazy.)=20 I take these responsibilities very seriously=2C and I don=92t need to convince anyone that worlds are ending.=20 =20 But the question was=2C what about entering this contest when you=92ve opened your big trap on the matter contrarily. =20 I don't know if that addresses your question because I don't understand the= question. =20 But I'll bet if we were face to face and allowed to smoke our talk and thou= ghts would be unrecognizable. I read about that recently on a listserv too= . =20 Sincerely=2C Jared=20 = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 06:29:14 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: carol dorf Subject: Girlstock Art and Music Benefit - Saturday, August 21st Poetry Readings -- 5:00 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'll be reading at the Girlstock benefit for the Women's Cancer Resource Center with Susan Terris and Autumn Stephens. Afterwards there will be music, and other performances. Saturday, August 21 Carol Dorf (with Susan Terris and Autumn Stephens) at Girlstock, Evening 4 Mina Dresden Gallery 312 Valencia @ 14th street, San Francisco 5:00-6:30 (I don't think we'll actually be reading before 5:30) for more info-- http://www.girlstock.com/girlstock.html All best, Carol ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:56:44 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: American Book Award for Poems for the Millennium In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 That is great news -- When they gave the award to Lorenzo Thomas's DON'T DENY MY NAME I had a great time at the ceremony in a Berkeley jazz club -- Ish played piano! The Amiri title in Jerome's post may confuse some folk -- that's the book's subtitle -- It refers to his U of California Press collection of music essays titled DIGGING. -- Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English 117 Burrowes Building The Pennsylvania State University University Park, PA 16802-6200 aln10@psu.edu sailing the blogosphere at http://heatstrings.blogspot.com "kindling his mind (more than his mind will kindle)" --William Carlos Williams, early adopter ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 17:39:57 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9COld_Women_Look_Like_This=E2=80=9D_?= by Susan M. Schultz. Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc , Wryting-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is =E2=80=9COld Women Look Like This=E2= =80=9D by Susan M. Schultz. Description:=20 Inspired by a series of paintings by Elizabeth Berdann, "Old Women Look Lik= e This" by Susan M. Schultz is about very old age. Schultz tests the compar= ison of old age to childhood by placing old people into unexpected narrativ= es, including children's stories, among them "Pippi Longstocking" and "Diar= y of a Wimpy Kid". An imaginative off-shoot of her "Dementia Blog" (Singing= Horse, 2008). Available as a free ebook here: http://www.lulu.com/product/ebook/old-women-look-like-this/12287311 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 11:44:12 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: American Book Award for Poems for the Millennium In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mair=E9ad, Interesting, this way Romantic poetry becomes an integral part of contemporary/modern poetry, which I thought it always was, particularly on the German side. Ciao, Murat On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Mairead Byrne wrote: > that's wonderful. hope to assign it for contemporary poetry class next > year. > x > mair=E9ad > > On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Ruth Lepson > wrote: > > > This is fantastic, Jerome. You know I had hoped to review the book, > having > > worked it when a student did an independent study with me, but I haven'= t > > been up to it. I am happy to hear that the award is justly given. > > > > > > On 8/15/10 4:53 PM, "Jerome Rothenberg" wrote: > > > > > In advance of an official announcement, this is to report that Poems > for > > the > > > Millennium, volume 3: The University of California Book of Romantic a= nd > > > Postromantic Poetry, edited by myself and Jeffrey Robinson, will > receive > > a > > > 2010 American Book Award from the Before Columbus Foundation. It's m= y > > > understanding that there will be fourteen such awards over all, > including > > > Amiri Baraka's The Afro-American Soul of American Classical Music and > > Dave > > > Eggers' non-fiction narrative Zeitoun, both previously announced, as > well > > as a > > > lifetime achievement award for our old comrade-in-poetry Quincy Troup= e. > > > > > > The nominating statement for Poems for the Millennium reads as follow= s: > > > > > > "Modernism rejected Romanticism in the way that one political leader > > rejects > > > another-not because it is any different but because it wishes to win > the > > same > > > audience. This book demonstrates that the only thing that happened in > > > Modernism was that a door opened onto still another aspect of the > immense > > > cultural experiment that Romanticism was-or as Rothenberg and Robinso= n > > might > > > insist, as Romanticisms were (are). Central issues were what Rousseau > > called > > > conscience de soi, self-awareness (but a self-awareness which > > deliberately did > > > not separate itself from 'world'), a new interest in ethnicity and th= e > > local, > > > and a shift from thinking of poetry as a 'craft' and of the poet as > > 'maker,' > > > to thinking of it as a provoker of consciousness-even a creator of > > > consciousness-and of the poet as Bard, Shaman. To know the work so > > carefully, > > > lovingly and brilliantly assembled in this book is to know ourselves = in > a > > new > > > and newly conscious way." > > > > > > An awards ceremony and reception will take place on Sunday, September > > 19th > > > from 1-4 p.m. at the Koret Auditorium, San Francisco Main Library, 10= 0 > > Larkin > > > Street, San Francisco, CA. > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > > guidelines & > > > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > -- > http://www.whatsleftofheaven.com/ > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 11:31:01 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: MOSQUES, CHURCHES, APES, CESSPOOLS In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit well, this is slightly off the point but give money to relief in Pakistan--a region the size of england is now underwater, 20 million displaced. On 8/16/10 3:07 PM, "Alan Sondheim" wrote: > isn't that what we all do? talk about things unrelated to politics? > > have you seen Fox news lately? how long should we be delicate? > > if anyone has ideas of direct action, cultural or otherwise, please > backchannel > > On Sun, 15 Aug 2010, michael farrell wrote: > >> hi jared >> >> i like your tone >> >> id like to consider different tones as a way of nutting out something >> >> political tones leave me cold >> >> many radio tones grate >> >> close readings of voice (close listening - bernstein) get blocked by >> listeners horror at words spoken >> >> we complain about whats being done to language but not the ultimately >> contemptuous tones used to voice it >> >> id like to see a debate or an interview where a key word or discourse is >> focused on but in relation to (contesting) the (habitual) tone being >> used >> >> q: "can you talk like a human being?" "maybe try talking about something >> unrelated to politics first" >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 23:38:01 -0600 >>> From: jschickl@HOTMAIL.COM >>> Subject: Re: MOSQUES, CHURCHES, APES, CESSPOOLS >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> >>> Dear Steve, Alan, and whomever else, >>> >>> >>> >>> your posts ? >>> >>> >>> >>> Taking Steve?s idea of the present / nearing ?End,? and >>> everything that suggests, as a baseline proposition?and less concerned with >>> the >>> accuracy of a truth than a thinking sensibility?much less any washed set of >>> theory that doesn?t offer something we?ve missed?how is one to think of a >>> relevant poetry? What would a relevant >>> poetry be? What is a relevant poetry? Affirmation and change and hope and >>> things >>> of that ilk don?t seem to go anywhere?as according to the proposition they >>> are >>> inaccurate. Yet one persists insisting? >>> >>> >>> >>> A far-flung surrealism is acutely popular, and so would be >>> apparently perceived as somehow relevant. >>> And yet so is a staunch eco poetic. >>> Alan?s post of xenophobia, corruption and broken glass alongside the >>> systematicity of Pantomime Ape of Free Will speaks, perhaps, to where the >>> two >>> cohabitate. Nature nurtured. >>> >>> >>> >>> In the end, and without much argument, I?m inclined to see >>> this as formal questions. CA Conrad?s >>> recent brief ?review? at Futurepost is peculiar, even if I?m quite possibly >>> overstating my case, but it has me wondering: >>> >>> >>> >>> ?The term ?Identity Politics? is bad enough. It?s >>> meant to annihilate the efforts of those who literally bled for the room >>> they >>> made for us all. ?Identity Politics? makes a joke of it. It says >>> that all it ever was was wallowing in the filth and conspiracy of politics, >>> a >>> game, it?s all just been a game.? >>> >>> >>> >>> While we do know politics would hardly change (have changed) >>> without politics. Part of the public >>> social artist?s civil agenda is to force action, political. Using, as with >>> more faith in, artistic, >>> biologic means of a-political, corrosive substance. Any blood, here, IS >>> identity politics. Conrad?s joke is perverse because, as I read it, it >>> can?t achieve >>> itself, so that it does. It is literal >>> in its bleeding, sur-real and eco-logical, like a complete thought about the >>> body. >>> >>> >>> >>> And yet I don?t think the passage, nor a review that ?wipes >>> me out? for that matter (?evie??s reply), has intended this. It seems to >>> bear the burden of its own >>> conviction. >>> >>> >>> >>> (Here I should suggest the value of all this. Well, upon now thinking about >>> this which is >>> something I wasn?t thinking about before, today I resisted not tossing some >>> recyclables. And I apologized to >>> someone for something. And cleaned up >>> the dog in the neighbor?s yard. Etc, >>> coincidence perhaps. Which would be >>> such work to parcel out. Also against the >>> original proposition. Einstein?s >>> definition of insanity.) >>> >>> >>> >>> How is such a method, a process unintentional, defeated yet conjured, >>> to be systemized, formalized, etc & et al discussed, articulated? In a >>> relevant way? >>> >>> >>> >>> Just a question. >>> Available on or off list. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines >>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & >> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> > > > == > email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ > webpage http://www.alansondheim.org > music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ > == > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 10:11:25 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Hilary Clark Subject: Re: One Writes Potatoe, Another Writes Pota[h]to In-Reply-To: <547354.36469.qm@web63407.mail.re1.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear list, Snide attacks such as the limerick below are pathetic. Aren't all members on this list free to make comments of the sort George Bowering made? Or are some members more equal than others? I am unsubscribing from this list. Hilary Clark Stephen Baraban wrote: > One Writes Potatoe, Another Writes Pota{h}to > OR, The Argument Need not be Souring > > > There now is a list-mate named Bowering, > Who might think that the others are cowering; > Though the offense be slight, > If the usage ain't right, > He'll rim-shot a scorn that is towering. > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 17:52:49 EDT Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ann Bogle Subject: Comments in Chinese MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been told that comments in Chinese to weblogs are "spam." I have deleted a few of those comments. Then I realized that they may not be spam but may be legitimate comments. I have begun to translate 14 of them using Babelfish. They seem to be wisdom sayings, such as this one: "The success may attract the friend, frustrates may test the friend." I'd like information -- if anyone has experience -- about issues in Chinese blogging, including censorship. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 10:02:07 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Rosalie Calabrese Subject: Fw: ROSALIE CALABRESE POETRY READINGS SEPTEMBER 2010 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- On Tue, 8/17/10, Rosalie Calabrese wrote: From: Rosalie Calabrese Subject: Fw: ROSALIE CALABRESE POETRY READINGS SEPTEMBER 2010 To: rcmgt@yahoo.com Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 1:01 PM --- On Tue, 8/17/10, Rosalie Calabrese wrote: From: Rosalie Calabrese Subject: Fw: ROSALIE CALABRESE POETRY READINGS SEPTEMBER 2010 To: rcmgt@yahoo.com Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 1:00 PM --- On Tue, 8/17/10, Rosalie Calabrese wrote: From: Rosalie Calabrese Subject: Fw: ROSALIE CALABRESE POETRY READINGS SEPTEMBER 2010 To: rcmgt@yahoo.com Date: Tuesday, August 17,=0A 2010, 1:00 PM --- On Tue, 8/17/10, Rosalie Calabrese wrote: From: Rosalie Calabrese Subject: Fw: ROSALIE CALABRESE POETRY READINGS SEPTEMBER 2010 To: rcmgt@yahoo.com Date: Tuesday, August 17,=0A 2010, 12:59 PM --- On Tue, 8/17/10, Rosalie Calabrese wrote: From: Rosalie Calabrese Subject: ROSALIE CALABRESE POETRY READINGS SEPTEMBER 2010 To: rcmgt@yahoo.com Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010,=0A 12:41 PM Two Dates and a poem: Sunday, September 12 at 2:00 PM West Side Community Garden=20 A group reading - mixed=0A genre Free Admission; Donations Accepted=20 (No Rain Date; No Open Mic) West Side Community Garden entrances at 89th + 90th St. between Amsterdam & Columbus Ave. Subway: 1 or C to 86th St. Bus: 7, 11, 104, 10 or 86th St. Crosstown Monday, September 13 at 7:00 P.M. The Brownstone Poets 2010 Anthology Reading Limited Open Mic - Free Admission BookCourt 163 Court Street Cobble Hill, Brooklyn, NY 11201 Phone # (718) 875-3677=A0=A0=0A =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0= =A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0 http://www.bookcourt.org/ Subway: F or G to Bergen St.;=0A R to Court St.; 4 or 5 to Borough Hall No new poems this time, but here's my very first one to be published. It ap= peared in ByLine, November, 1990: MAKING A SUBMISSION Change the typewriter ribbon, put more paper =A0=A0=A0 in the copier, Agonize over a cover letter =A0=A0=A0 (Written on your last sheet of good stationery) Seal the envelop and re-open it =A0=A0=A0 to insert the forgotten S.A.S.E., Rush to the post office and stand on line, =A0=A0=A0 waiting anxiously to Give up your latest offspring. Go back home, wondering =A0=A0=A0 if the piece will be accepted, soon to Appear in slightly altered form, =A0=A0=A0 like your grown-up child Encountered unexpectedly on the street; =A0=A0=A0 or will it return, Battered and travel-weary, =A0=A0=A0 like a baby bird=0A temporarily Sent out of its cage =A0=A0=A0 to fly around the house? =0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 07:58:23 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Paul Nelson Subject: Re: One Writes Potatoe, Another Writes Pota[h]to In-Reply-To: <547354.36469.qm@web63407.mail.re1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Stephen, You mighta scored more points with GB had you done an "eye-rhyme" limerick. Those take a little longer. Paul Nelson Seattle, WA Paul E. Nelson SPLAB! C. City, WA 206.422.5002 ________________________________ From: Stephen Baraban To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 11:43:31 AM Subject: One Writes Potatoe, Another Writes Pota[h]to One Writes Potatoe, Another Writes Pota{h}to OR, The Argument Need not be Souring There now is a list-mate named Bowering, Who might think that the others are cowering; Though the offense be slight, If the usage ain't right, He'll rim-shot a scorn that is towering. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 10:28:41 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Obododimma Oha Subject: E-Newspaper Feedback: Countryman Meets Truckpusher Comments: To: USAAfricaDialogue , Philosophy and Psychology of Cyberspace , Philosophy and Psychology of Cyberspace , "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" , elsalites@yahoogroups.com, obodooha@yahoo.com, ederi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "It is a very good development that writers of articles published in e-zine= s and e-newspapers can =93hear=94 the voices of readers praising, condemning, scolding, correcting, and even stimulating debates on issues that are raise= d in the article, or in the comments made by other readers. Previously in single medium printed dailies and magazines, readers could not provide such responses so conveniently and in a way that it could appear with other comments as connected discourse." Read full text of "E-newspaper Feedback: Countryman Meets Truckpusher" at: http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/Editorial/5607503-182/story.c= sp --=20 Obododimma Oha http://udude.wordpress.com/ Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 19:47:00 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: Save the Dates: Boog Fest, Fri. 9/24-Tues. 9/28 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, A little over a month from now, from Fri., Sept. 24 through Tues. =20 Sept. 28, we'll be putting on the fourth annual Welcome to Boog City =20 poetry and music festival. It will feature 43 poets and 17 musical =20 acts over the five days. Among the festival highlights are: =97our classic album live series presents it's first ever album =20 performed by just one act, Bob Dylan's Highway 61 Revisited by i feel =20= tractor; =97our levy lives series devotes a night to Buffalo's Satellite =20 Telephone magazine; =97our 7th annual small, small press fair, with exhibits from a host of =20= small presses, and readings by their authors; =97a discussion on site-specific poems; and =97poet David Shapiro reading and in conversation with poet Joanna =20 Fuhrman. The full schedule for the event is below this note, followed by =20 performer bios and websites. If you need any additional information you can reach me at 212-842-=20 BOOG (2664) or editor@boogcity.com. as ever, David ---------- 4th Annual Welcome to Boog City festival 5 Days of Poetry and Music Friday Sept. 24, Sidewalk Caf=E9 94 Ave. A NYC Free with a two-drink minimum =09 7:00 p.m. Noelle Kocot 7:20 p.m. Pierre Joris 7:35 p.m. Maureen Thorson 7:55 p.m. Steve Cannon 8:00 p.m. Nicole Peyrafitte 8:20 p.m. Poetry Talk Talk-David Shapiro reading and in conversation with Joanna Fuhrman 9:10 p.m. Anne Waldman and Ambrose Bye-poetry and music 9:50 p.m. Magnetic Island-music 10:50 p.m. i feel tractor performs, for its 45th anniversary, Bob =20 Dylan's Highway 61 Revisited 12:00 a.m. The Elastic No-No Band-music =09 Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave., L to 1st Ave. Venue is at E.6th St. =09 Sat. Sept. 25, Unnameable Books 7th Annual Small, Small Press Fair Unnameable Books 600 Vanderbilt Ave. Brooklyn Free Featuring readings from authors of the exhibiting presses 12:00 p.m. Fair begins 1:00 p.m. Fay Chiang, Bowery Books (ed. Marjorie Tesser) 1:10 p.m. Mark Horosky, Flying Guillotine Press (eds. Sommer =20 Browning and Tony Mancus) 1:20 p.m. Abby Walthausen, Fractious Press (ed. Veronica Liu) 1:30 p.m. Jeffrey Jullich, Litmus Press/Aufgabe (ed. E. Tracy =20 Grinnell) 1:40 p.m. Miriam Atkin, little scratch pad editions (ed. Douglas =20 Manson) =09 1:50 p.m. Break =09 2:10 p.m. Matt Reeck, No, Dear magazine (ed. Alex Cuff) 2:20 p.m. Tom Orange-music 2:35 p.m. Dennis Leroy Kangalee, Savage Paw Press (ed. Kangalee) 2:45 p.m. David Mills, Straw Gate Books (ed. Phyllis Wat) =09 2:55 p.m. Break =09 3:15 p.m. Binary Marketing Show-music 3:45 p.m. Urayo=E1n Noel 4:00 p.m. Peter Davis 4:20 p.m. Mel Nichols 4:40 p.m. John Godfrey 4:55 p.m. Jenn McCreary 5:20 p.m. Beat Radio-music 5:50 p.m. Ken Jacobs 6:10 p.m. Sommer Browning 6:30 p.m. Chris McCreary 6:50 p.m. Cathy Eisenhower 7:10 p.m. Rod Smith 7:35 p.m. Rorie Kelly-music 8:10 p.m. Lach-music 8:40 p.m. Douglas Rothschild =09 Directions: 2, 3 to Grand Army Plaza, C to Clinton-Washington avenues, =20= Q to 7th Ave. Venue is bet. Prospect Pl./St. Marks Ave. Sun. Sept. 26, Unnameable Books 7th Annual Small, Small Press Fair, Day 2 =09 Unnameable Books 600 Vanderbilt Ave. Brooklyn Free 12:00 p.m. Dustin Williamson 12:15 p.m. Kevin Varrone 12:35 p.m. Brandon Holmquest 12:55 p.m. Pattie McCarthy 1:20 p.m. Brian Speaker-music 1:50 p.m. Ivy Johnson 2:05 p.m. Carlos Soto Rom=E1n 2:25 p.m. erica kaufman 2:40 p.m. Shafer Hall =09 2:55 p.m.-3:15-break =09 3:15 p.m.-5:00 p.m.=09 You Are Here: On the Site-Specific Poem curated and hosted by Pattie McCarthy and Kevin Varrone With panelists Allison Cobb, CA Conrad, Marcella Durand, Tonya Foster, and Carlos Soto Roman Directions: 2, 3 to Grand Army Plaza, C to Clinton-Washington avenues, =20= Q to 7th Ave. Venue is bet. Prospect Pl./St. Marks Ave. Sun. Sept. 26, Zinc Bar =09 Zinc Bar 82 W. 3rd St. NYC $5 suggested 6:30 p.m.-8:45 p.m. You Are Here: Readings of Site-Specific Poems curated and hosted by Pattie McCarthy and Kevin Varrone With readings from Allison Cobb, CA Conrad, Marcella Durand, and Carlos Soto Roman Directions: A/B/C/D/E/F/V to W. 4th St. Venue is bet. Sullivan and Thompson sts. =09 Mon. Sept. 27, Unnameable Books =09 Unnameable Books 600 Vanderbilt Ave. Brooklyn Free 6:00 p.m. Chris Martin 6:15 p.m. Cate Peebles 6:30 p.m. Julian Brolaski 6:45 p.m. Farrah Field 7:05 p.m. J.J. Hayes-music =09 7:35 p.m. Break =09 7:45 p.m. Joe Elliot 8:00 p.m. E. Tracy Grinnell 8:15 p.m. Jared White 8:30 p.m. Mariana Ruiz Firmat 8:45 p.m. Laura Elrick 9:05 p.m. Jeremiah Birnbaum of The Ramblers-music =09 Directions: 2, 3 to Grand Army Plaza, C to Clinton-Washington avenues, =20= Q to 7th Ave. Venue is bet. Prospect Pl./St. Marks Ave. =09 Tues. Sept. 28, ACA Galleries, 6:00 p.m. =09 d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press Satellite Telephone magazine (Buffalo, N.Y.) ACA Galleries 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. NYC Free Event will be hosted by Satellite Telephone editor Robert Dewhurst featuring readings from Todd Colby Dorothea Lasky Eileen Myles Rebekah Rutkoff and music from Franklin Bruno There will be wine, cheese, and crackers, too. Directions: C/E to 23rd St., 1/9 to 18th St. Venue is bet. 10th and 11th avenues --------------- **Welcome to Boog City 3 Bios and Websites** *Friday **Ambrose Bye http://www.myspace.com/fastspeakingmusicmyspace Ambrose Bye, musician (piano/keyboard, guitar, voice) and composer, =20 grew up in the environment of The Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied =20 Poetics at Naropa University, counting Allen Ginsberg and William =20 Burroughs as =93poetic=94 godfathers. He graduated from The University = of =20 California, Santa Cruz with a degree in music/sociology and was =20 certified at the music /production program at the Pyramind Institute =20 in San Francisco, working on numerous productions and his own =20 compositions as well. He also studied and played in gamelan orchestras =20= in Bali, Indonesia, Boulder, and Santa Cruz. He has performed on stage =20= a number of times, accompanying poets and performers at New York=92s =20 Issue Project Room, The Poetry Project, The Bowery Poetry Club, KGB =20 Bar, at The Boulder Theatre=92s =93Music and Poetry for Progressives=94 =20= headlined by Thurston Moore of Sonic Youth, Naropa University, The New =20= School, White Columns Gallery, and San Francisco=92s Meridian Gallery. =20= He is in production with his next CD, =93Hombres=94. His most recent CD = is =20 =93Matching Half=94 with Anne Waldman and Akilah Oliver, which was =20 produced by Farfalla, McMillen, Parrish. His previous composing/ =20 production credits include =93In The Room of Never Grieve=94, (produced = by =20 Coffee House Press) and =93The Eye of the Falcon=94 (Farfalla, McMillen, = =20 Parrish) with poetry by Anne Waldman. His music accompanies the video =20= =93The Wake- Up Call of a Poet=94 , produced by the Buddhist = Broadcasting =20 Foundation, the Netherlands and was broadcast over Dutch TV in =20 December, 2009. **Steve Cannon Originally from the cultural hot bed of New Orleans, Steve Cannon =20 developed a taste for the arts at a very young age. An institution =20 himself, Professor Cannon has been active in the multicultural =20 artistic community on the Lower East Side in New York City for almost =20= four decades. As the executive director and founder of Tribes, he has =20= been the central figure of the organization since its inception in =20 1991. He continues to pave its artistic direction, despite having lost =20= his eyesight over a decade ago, an unfortunate occurrence that has =20 only served to sharpen his vision and heighten his desire to advance =20 the development of the arts. A retired professor of the humanities at =20= Medgar Evers College in the CUNY system and the author of the =20 underground classic Groove, Bang and Jive Around, he is closely =20 connected to artists and educators throughout the city. In the early =20 =9260s, he was heavily involved in Umbra, a consortium of primary =20 African-American artists of all disciplines, including such literary =20 luminaries as Ishmael Reed, Calvin Hernton, Victor Hernandez, and =20 David Henderson. Since then, Umbra artists served as founding members and advisors to =20 Tribes. Besides holding court at Tribes, Professor Cannon also serves =20= as the "Official Heckler" at the neighboring Nuyorican Poets Cafe, a =20 brother organization, as well as an advisor to The House of Tribes =20 Theater, a sister organization. In recent years, he extended his =20 influence across the Atlantic with collaborations with Spanish curator =20= Mireia Sentis. Together, they curated Humor and Rage, an exhibition =20 featuring five minority American artists from diverse ethnic =20 backgrounds, which was exhibited in 2001 at La Pedrera, the historical =20= building designed by Gaudi, in Barcelona. **Elastic No-No Band http://www.elasticnonoband.com/ Elastic No-No Band sings songs about manboobs and Klaus Kinski and =20 cheese fries. Also, songs about love and sex and pain and stuff. =20 Sometimes the band is made up of many people, and sometimes it's just =20= one guy. That guy is Justin Remer, and he turns 30 on September 24, =20 the day of this show. As a birthday present, you should come to this =20 show and enjoy yourself. (If you want, you could buy one of our CDs =20 too. That certainly wouldn't hurt.) [ed=92s. note: you could also buy =20= Justin an adult beverage.] **Joanna Fuhrman http://www.redroom.com/author/joanna-fuhrman Joanna Fuhrman is the author of four books of poetry, most recently =20 Pageant (Alice James Books) and Moraine (Hanging Loose Press). She =20 teaches poetry at Rutgers University and in public schools through =20 Teachers & Writers Collaborative. She is the poetry editor for Boog =20 City and the Poetry Project=92s Wednesday night reading series curator =20= for the 2010-2011 season. **i feel tractor http://www.myspace.com/ifeeltractor i feel tractor is a 5-piece band that has been around for over a =20 decade, released a self-titled 7", appeared on numerous comps =20 including Frequency - Issue One, Polyamory's new skin for the old =20 ceremony, and Goodbye Better's Weird Terrain, and came out with its =20 first full-length, Once I had an earthquake (Goodbye Better) in 2005. =20= Its newest album, Mellow Crypt, should be appearing sometime in the =20 near future. **Pierre Joris http://pierrejoris.com/home.html Pierre Joris is a poet, translator, essayist, and anthologist who left =20= Luxembourg at 19 and has since lived in France, England, Algeria, and =20= the United States. He has published over 40 books, most recently Canto =20= Diurno #4: The Tang Extending from the Blade, an Ahadada e-book, =20 Justifying the Margins: Essays 1990-2006, and Aljibar I & II (poems). =20= Other recent publications include the CD Routes, not Roots and =20 Meditations on the Stations of Mansour Al-Hallaj 1-21. Recent =20 translations include Paul Celan: Selections and Lightduress by Paul =20 Celan, which received the 2005 PEN Poetry Translation Award. With =20 Jerome Rothenberg he edited the award-winning anthologies Poems for =20 the Millennium (volumes I & II). He teaches at the University of =20 Albany, SUNY. **Noelle Kocot http://www.wavepoetry.com/authors/25-noelle-kocot Noelle Kocot is the author of four books, most recently, Poem for the =20= End of Time and Sunny Wednesday (both from Wave Books). She has a =20 poetry book, The Bigger World, and a discography also forthcoming from =20= Wave. She writes at least one poem a day, and sometimes over 10 poems =20= a day. She has won awards from The National Endowment for the Arts, =20 The Fund for Poetry, The American Poetry Review, and the Academy of =20 American Poets. Originally from Brooklyn, she now lives in South Jersey. **Magnetic Island http://www.myspace.com/magneticislandband Magnetic Island is a musical collective helmed by Lisa Liu and SMV. =20 The pair work with a rotating cast of collaborators to create a unique =20= brand of experimental indie rock. The band has been releasing singles =20= in anticipation of its debut EP, Out At Sea, due this September. Liu =20 and SMV previously formed the core of RENMINBI, a trio founded in 2003 =20= that released three EPs (most recently July 2009=92s Surface) and one =20= full-length album (May 2008=92s The Phoenix). **Nicole Peyrafitte http://www.nicolepeyrafitte.com/ Nicole Peyrafitte is a performance artist born and raised in the =20 French Pyrenees. She considers herself a Gasco-Rican (1/2 Gascon, 1/2 =20= American) and citizen of Brooklyn. She pursues related multi-cultural =20= and multi-media investigations that integrate her voice, texts, =20 visuals, and also cooking. **David Shapiro http://jacketmagazine.com/23/shap-p.html David Shapiro has published more than 20 volumes of art and literary =20 criticism, translations, and anthologies. He has won many prizes and was the first to write a book =20= on John Ashbery and a monograph on Jasper Johns's drawings. His New =20 and Selected Poems (1965=962006) came out from Overlook Press. **Maureen Thorson http://www.maureenthorson.com/ Maureen Thorson is the author of three chapbooks: Twenty Questions for =20= the Drunken Sailor (dusie/flynpyntar press), Mayport (Poetry Society =20 of America), and Novelty Act (Ugly Duckling Presse). Her poetry has =20 recently appeared or is forthcoming in Lungfull!, Barrelhouse, and =20 Hotel Amerika. She lives in Washington, D.C., where she co-curates the =20= In Your Ear reading series at the D.C. Arts Center and runs Big Game =20 Books, the tiniest press in the world. **Anne Waldman =93She is the fastest, wittiest woman to run with the wolves in some =20 time.=94 -Ken Tucker, The New York Times Poet Anne Waldman has been an active member of the =93Outrider=94 =20 experimental poetry community for over 40 years as writer, =20 sprechstimme performer, professor, editor, magpie scholar, infra-=20 structure, and cultural/political activist. Her published work is =20 prodigious, and she has concentrated on the long poem as a cultural =20 intervention with such projects as Marriage: A Sentence, Structure of =20= The World Compared to a Bubble; the recent Manatee/Humanity (Penguin =20 Poets), which is a book-length rhizomic meditation on evolution and =20 endangered species; and the 900-page Iovis Trilogy, Colors In The =20 Mechanism of Concealment, which will be published by Coffee House =20 Press in 2011. Publishers Weekly recently referred to Anne Waldman as =93A counter-=20 cultural giant.=94 Waldman, grew up on Macdougal Street in the heart of =20= Greenwich Village where she still lives, and bi-furcated to Boulder, =20 Colo. in 1974 when she co-founded The Jack Kerouac School of =20 Disembodied Poetics with Allen Ginsberg at Naropa University, the =20 first Buddhist inspired school in the West, where she currently serves =20= as artistic director of its celebrated Summer Writing program. Waldman helped found and direct The Poetry Project at St. Mark=92s =20 Church In-the-Bowery, where she worked first as assistant director and =20= then director for a decade. Waldman has also collaborated extensively with a number of artists, =20 musicians, and dancers, most recently artists Pat Steir and Kiki Smith =20= and theater director Judith Malina. She has also been working most =20 recently with other media, including film and video with her husband, =20= writer and video/film director Ed Bowes. She also performs with her =20 son, musician/composer Ambrose Bye. Their latest CD is =93Matching Half=94= =20 with Akilah Oliver. Some of her performances may be viewed on YouTube. *Saturday **Miriam Atkin, little scratch pad press http://remembertoforgetmybuffalo.blogspot.com/ http://www.dougfinmanson.blogspot.com/ little scratch pad press publishes significant chapbooks by new and =20 established poets and writers. Founded in 1996, it has published works =20= by Aaron Lowinger, Kristi Meal, Jonathan Skinner and Michael Basinski. =20= Forthcoming titles are Don't Have One by Miriam Atkin, and a set of =20 meditations on painter Chaim Soutine, Excoriate Exhale, by Heller =20 Levinson. Miriam Atkin's recent study of the resurgence of the pastoral in =20 visual art,Art and Artifice in the Garden: Species-Being and the =20 Memory of Paradise, examines the critique of technology and industry =20 in literature, painting, and film, beginning with the Lascaux =20 petroglyphs and concluding with New Landscape photography. She holds =20 an MFA in Art Criticism and Writing from the School of Visual Arts and =20= lives in Brooklyn. Her first collection of writing, Don't Have One, is =20= out from little scratch pad press. **Beat Radio http://www.beatradio.org/ Beat Radio is an American indie pop project guided by New York singer-=20= songwriter Brian Sendrowitz. The current lineup also features Dan =20 Bills, Brian Ver Straten, Evan Duby, and Mike McCabe. Beat Radio =20 released their debut LP The Great Big Sea in 2007 and the follow up, =20 Safe Inside the Sound, in fall 2009. The band has embarked on a =20 singles series for 2010, releasing two songs each month via bandcamp. =20= Gilbert Ng photo **Binary Marketing Show http://www.binarymarketingshow.com/ Abram Morphew set out for the wilderness of the Birkhead Mountains in =20= search of seclusion, and a place to let his thoughts wonder in peace. =20= He was delighted to discover tunnels, previously only known to the =20 elders of Birkhead, leading to a magical city where he would happen =20 upon a fellow survivor of the elements... Bethany Carder, awaking from a hypnotic state induced by a small band =20= of mystics, discovered Abram Morphew wondering the ancient underground =20= tunnels beneath the mystical city. Carder was fascinated by Morphew's =20= ideas of healing through experimentation with light, sound, energy, =20 and the power of intent. Emotional turmoil, once so powerful, released =20= through instruments and moving images. They continued forward, =20 energetic pullies attached to cages covered in flesh, time travelers =20 in moments of here connection, near connections, missing the point =20 only to find it resides within and without you. This is the story of =20 the binary marketing show Their new EP "Clues from the Past" was released last month, and their =20= tour kicked off in Philadelphia, taking them as far west as East =20 Glacier, Mont. **Sommer Browning http://www.asthmachronicles.blogspot.com/ Sommer Browning writes poems, draws comics, and makes books. Her =20 latest chapbook, written with Brandon Shimoda, is The Bowling (Greying =20= Ghost). She lives in the Mountain Time Zone. **Fay Chiang, Bowery Books http://www.nyu.edu/clubs/generasian/spring03/Features/faychiang.htm http://www.boweryartsandscience.org/?page_id=3D5 Bowery Books is the independent poetry press of Bowery Arts & Science, =20= the non-profit that also provides programs for Bowery Poetry Club. Its =20= mission is to reflect the vigor and diversity of poetry, to publish =20 poetry books and recordings by exceptional established and emerging =20 poets whose work might otherwise lack representation, and to expand =20 the audience for poetry. Edited by Bob Holman and Marjorie Tesser, =20 Bowery Books has published essential anthologies, such as Bowery =20 Women: Poems and Estamos Aqu=ED, Poems by Migrant Farmworkers, as well =20= as works by unique poets like Taylor Mead, the octogenarian Andy =20 Warhol intimate, Poez, a performing street poet, and a romp featuring =20= the Bowery Bartenders. It sponsors the Bowery Voices series, thus far: =20= Body of Water by surrealist poet Janet Hamill, with photographs by =20 Patti Smith, The Touch by punk medievalist Cynthia Kraman, and most =20 recently activist-artist-poet Fay Chiang=92s 7 Continents 9 Lives. Fay Chiang is a writer, artist, and community/cultural activist living =20= and working in Chinatown and the Lower East Side of New York City for =20= the past four decades. Raised in the backroom of a Queens laundry by =20 immigrant parents from Guandong, China, she writes from her =20 experiences as a woman of color from the working class. She believes =20 culture is a psychological weapon to reclaim our past, define our =20 present, and envision possibilities for our future; and that the =20 development of culture is an integral part of progressive social =20 change and social justice movements. Currently working at Project =20 Reach, a youth and community center for young people at risk in =20 Chinatown/Lower East Side, she lives in the East Village. **Peter Davis http://artisnecessary.com/ Peter Davis is the author of Hitler's Mustache and Poetry! Poetry! =20 Poetry!. He edited Poet's Bookshelf: Contemporary Poets on Books that =20= Shaped Their Art. His poems have been in journals like Jacket, No Tell =20= Motel, and Court Green. More info, including about his music project, =20= Short Hand, is available at artisnecessary.com. **Cathy Eisenhower = http://www.brooklynrail.org/2010/04/poetry/two-sections-from-distance-deca= y Cathy Eisenhower is the author of Language of the Dog-head [chapbook]=20 (Phylum Press), clearing without reversal (Edge), and would with and =20 (Roof). **John Godfrey http://www.wavepoetry.com/authors/57-john-godfrey John Godfrey has lived in the East Village since the Sixties. He has =20 been a fellow of the General Electric Foundation and of the Foundation =20= for Contemporary Arts. Wave Books published his ninth collection, City =20= of Corners. He is a registered nurse in a specialty clinic at a city =20 hospital in East Flatbush. **Mark Horosky, Flying Guillotine Press http://activedriveway-mth.blogspot.com/ http://flyingguillotinepress.blogspot.com/ In 2008, Tony Mancus and Sommer Browning, two friends from poetry =20 school, started Flying Guillotine Press. They endeavor to make pretty, =20= small, handbound, medulla oblongata-exploding poetry chapbooks =20 cheaply. They work in Denver, Colorado and Arlington, Virginia. Mark Horosky is the author of the chapbook collection of prose poems, =20= Let It Be Nearby and the forthcoming chapbooks More Frisk Than Risk =20 (Flying Guillotine Press) and Fabulous Beasts (The Equalizer). He is a =20= special education teacher in Brooklyn, New York. **Ken Jacobs http://www.phylumpress.com/covers/sooner.htm Ken Jacobs=92s pamphlet Sooner (Phylum Press) was released in December =20= 2009. He lives in Washington, D.C. **Jeffrey Jullich, Litmus Press http://www.litmuspress.org/portraitofcolondashparenthesis.html http://www.litmuspress.org/ Jeffrey Jullich is the author of Portrait of Colon Dash Parenthesis =20 (Litmus Press) and Thine Instead Thank (Harry Tankoos Books). His =20 poetry, criticism, and translations have appeared in numerous journals =20= and magazines including American Letters & Commentary, Aufgabe, Boston =20= Review, Chain, Ecopoetics, Fence, LUNGFULL!, New American Writing, =20 Poetry, Rain Taxi, Shiny, Spoon River, and VeRT. Litmus Press is a nonprofit literature and arts organization dedicated =20= to supporting innovative, cross-genre writing, with an emphasis on =20 poetry and international works in translation. Litmus press publishes =20= two to three single author works a year, in addition to Aufgabe, an =20 annual journal of poetry, translations, essays, reviews, and art. **Dennis Leroy Kangalee, Nomad Junkie = http://outlawpoetry.com/2010/07/13/dennis-leroy-kangalee-its-not-life-that= s-bad-its-society/ http://www.nomadjunkie.com/ Known as the Nomad Junkie due to his peripatetic lifestyle and =20 artistic restlessness, Dennis Leroy Kangalee is an N.Y.C.-based writer =20= from Queens born to West Indian parents. An outsider artist from the =20 get go, he has no degree and has won no awards. His stories, plays, =20 essays, and satire reflect his own anger and frustration as he sees =20 the world's injustice in an everyday observation. An expelled =20 performing artist from Juilliard and maverick of the New York =20 underground, Kangalee has led several lives and is constantly looking =20= for meaning. Since 1997, he has begged, borrowed, and stolen to =20 support his art. Urged by the Last Poets to continue writing prose during the creation =20= of his 2001 cult-film movie about racism and its consequences, As an =20 Act of Protest, Kangalee=92s writing is political and personal. Inspired = =20 by the Black Arts Movement, punk, and the Theater of the Absurd, =20 Kangalee draws inspiration from his own life as opposed to Literary =20 History or knowledge of the classics. Adopting the =93Nomad Junkie=94 as = =20 his nom de plume while homeless and later in a self-imposed exile =20 overseas, he writes for the little man caught in the snow and beneath =20= the corporate avalanche, those who draw lines in the sand, the losers, =20= the rebels, the tormented, and the romantic rovers hovering on the =20 margins of the mainstream who dare to try to make sense of =93Life in =20= Society=94 and the doorway of 21st century-Brave New World ethos. Currently, he is developing his first full-length spoken word album, =20 My Dying City, an experimental radio drama that presents itself as a =20 cubistic portrait of a spirit crushed under the weight of corporate-=20 friendly gentrification. Kangalee is married and lives in N.Y.C. Nina Fleck photo. **Rorie Kelly http://www.roriekelly.com/ Rorie Kelly is a singer/songwriter and conquistadora originally from =20 Long Island. Her main goal in life is to travel around in her little =20 blue car and make music and art. She was recently named one of Long =20 Island's "Top 10 Indie Artists You've Never Heard of" by Long Island =20 Pulse Magazine and is about to release her first full length album, =20 Wish Upon a Bottlecap. She is also a published writer of feminist =20 blogs, music reviews, and poetry. More information and pretty songs =20 can be found at the above site. **Lach http://www.lachtoday.com/ As a songwriter Lach founded the Antifolk art and music movement, =20 which is sited as a main inspiration by hundreds of performers today =20 from Beck and Jeffrey Lewis to Hamell on Trial, The Moldy Peaches, and =20= Regina Spektor in U.S.A. to the likes of Laura Marling and Emmy the =20 Great in the U.K. **Chris McCreary http://furniturepressbooks.com/books/mccrearyundone/ http://www.ixnaypress.com/ Chris McCreary's new book, Undone, was just published by Furniture =20 Press. Along with Jenn McCreary, he co-edits ixnay press a small =20 Philadelphia-based poetry press. He teaches English at a private high =20= school outside of Philly. **Jenn McCreary http://jennmccreary.com/ Jenn McCreary is the author of :ab ovo:, published by Dusie Press in =20 the spring of 2009. She is also the author of two chapbooks: errata =20 stigmata (Potes & Poets Press), & four o=92clock pocket chiming =20 (Beautiful Swimmer Press); the e-chapbook:Maps & Legends: (Scantily =20 Clad Press) & a doctrine of signatures (Singing Horse Press). Her poetry has been published in magazines including Combo, Lungfull!, =20= Tool: A Magazine, POM2, So To Speak, Sous Rature, Tangent, & How2. She =20= lives with her husband, the writer Chris McCreary, & their twin sons =20 in Philadelphia, where she co-edits ixnay press with Chris, works for =20= the Mural Arts Program, & serves on the board of the Philly Spells =20 Writing Center. **David Mills, Straw Gate Press http://www.brooklynrail.org/2010/07/books/rapid-transit-june10-2 http://www.leafscape.org/StrawGateBooks/index.html Founded by Phyllis Wat in 2005, Straw Gate Books publishes poetry and =20= occasional related texts. They are particularly interested in works by =20= women and non-polemical writing with an underlying social content. =20 Straw Gate also features new authors and authors whose work is under-=20 served. Author David Mills has received Henry James, Cave Canem and Breadloaf =20= fellowships, as well as New York Foundation of the Arts, Brio, and =20 Hughes/Diop Awards. He also won the inaugural 2008 Pan African =20 Literary Forum Poetry Prize and a Soros grant. David=92s work has =20 appeared in Callaloo, Rattapallax, The Pedestal, Hanging Loose Press, =20= Aloud, and elsewhere. He has recorded his poetry on RCA Records and =20 toured Europe performing his work with jazz bands. His book, The Dream =20= Detective, is a 2010 publication of Straw Gate Books. **Mel Nichols = http://stevenfama.blogspot.com/2009/11/mel-nichols-catalytic-exteriorizati= on.html Mel Nichols=92 recent books are Catalytic Exteriorization Phenomenon =20 (National Poetry Series finalist; Edge) and Bicycle Day (Slack Buddha =20= 2008). Recent journal publications include Poetry, New Ohio Review, =20 and The Brooklyn Rail. **Urayo=E1n Noel http://www.urayoannoel.com Urayo=E1n Noel was born in Puerto Rico, divides his time between the =20 Bronx and upstate, and teaches English at SUNY-Albany. His creative =20 and critical writings have recently appeared in Fence; Orbis (U.K.); =20 Diasporic Avant-Gardes (Palgrave); and Malditos latinos, malditos =20 sudacas. Poes=EDa hispanoamericana made in USA (M=E9xico, D.F., El = billar =20 de Lucrecia). His new book, Hi-density Politics, is forthcoming from =20 BlazeVOX. **Tom Orange http://destinationout.vox.com/ After eight years in the D.C. poetry scene and adjunct teaching there =20= and a year in Nashville, Tom Orange moved back to his home town of =20 Cleveland, where he is active in the local arts and music scenes. =20 Recent work includes =93Tremont Poetography,=94 a group = poet-photographer =20 book and exhibition at Doubting Thomas Gallery; solo and small group =20 experimental music performances on alto sax, clarinet, guitar, banjo, =20= and dulcimer at The Scarab Club (Detroit), Sp@ce 224 Gallery =20 (Buffalo), Audio Visual Baptism (Cleveland), and the Post_Moot =20 Convocation (Oxford, Ohio); and an excerpt from his chapbook American =20= Dialectics (Slack Buddha) being reprinted in Against Expression: An =20 Anthology of Conceptual Writing (edited by Craig Dworkin and Kenneth =20 Goldsmith for Northwestern University Press) due out this December. =20 His music blog can be found at the above url. **Matt Reeck, No, Dear magazine http://www.nodearmagazine.com/ Matt Reeck has published poetry and translations in magazines and =20 chapbooks, including =93Midwinter=94 by Fact-Simile Press. =93Coyote =20 Pursues,=94 his marionette theater collaboration with the visual artist =20= Deborah Simon, was performed during St Ann=92s Warehouse's Labapalooza =20= in June. No, Dear is a hand-sewn print poetry publication featuring the work of =20= New York City poets. **Douglas Rothschild http://pierrejoris.com/blog/?p=3D1377 DglsN.Rthsjchld has been walking & thinking for a long time. =20 Occasionally he sits. Sometimes he writes these thoughts down. Many =20 great poems have come to him in this manner. & you can read some of =20 them in his book THEOGONY published last spring by SubPress. **Rod Smith http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/smithr/ Rod Smith is the author of Deed, Music or Honesty, Protective =20 Immediacy, and In Memory of My Theories. He edits the journal Aerial, =20= publishes Edge Books, and manages Bridge Street Books in Washington, =20 D.C. He is also currently editing The Selected Letters of Robert =20 Creeley with Kaplan Harris and Peter Baker for The University of =20 California Press. **Abby Walthausen, Fractious Press http://www.literaturesandwich.com/ http://www.fractiouspress.com/ Fractious Press is a small artist-run publishing collective founded in =20= the Bronx and Washington Heights, New York in 2005. Since its first =20 release, which was named in the Village Voice=92s Best of New York 2005, = =20 the press has published emerging artists and writers of fiction, =20 poetry, comics, and zines, and has occasionally co-hosted day-long =20 zine and small press fairs in Upper Manhattan. The May 2010 edition of =20= the fair was held with support from the Manhattan Community Arts Fund. =20= ForeWord magazine called the press =93innovative =85 a kind of =20 counterculture collaborative.=94 Abby Walthausen likes to write what could be considered the =20 =93historical fiction=94 of poetry. She spends her time taking all the = fun =20 out of poetry for high school students. Her poetry book The Internet =20 is forthcoming from Fractious Press. *Sunday **Unnameable and Zinc **Allison Cobb http://www.factoryschool.com/pubs/heretical/vol5/cobb/index.html Allison Cobb is the author of Born2 (Chax Press) about growing up in =20 Los Alamos, N.M., and the just-published Green-Wood (Factory School), =20= which chronicles her experiences in Brooklyn's famous nineteenth-=20 century cemetery. She lived for a number of years in New York City, =20 where she worked for the Environmental Defense Fund. She now lives in =20= Portland, Ore., and works for an energy conservation nonprofit. **CAConrad http://caconrad.blogspot.com/ http://phillysound.blogspot.com/ CAConrad is the recipient of the 2009 Gil Ott Book Award for The Book =20= of Frank (Wave Books). He is also the author of Advanced Elvis Course =20= (Soft Skull Press), (Soma)tic Midge (Faux Press), Deviant Propulsion =20 (Soft Skull Press), and a collaboration with poet Frank Sherlock, The =20= City Real & Imagined (Factory School). The son of white trash =20 asphyxiation, his childhood included selling cut flowers along the =20 highway for his mother and helping her shoplift. **Marcella Durand http://www.futurepoem.com/bookpages/trafficandweather.html Futurepoem Books published Marcella Durand=92s book-length site-specific = =20 poem, Traffic & Weather. The poem was written during a six-month =20 residency at the Lower Manhattan Cultural Council in which she worked =20= alongside visual artists in a raw office space. Her other books =20 include, most recently, Deep Eco Pre, a collaboration with Tina =20 Darragh published by Little Red Leaves, and AREA, published by =20 Belladonna Books. She is currently working on a new collection of =20 poems written mostly from the same table in the New York Public =20 Library=92s Leroy Street branch. John Sarsgard photo. **Tonya Foster http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/Foster.php Tonya Foster is the author of poetry, fiction, and essays that have =20 been published in a variety of journals including Callaloo, =20 DrumVoices, Gulf Coast, the Hat, Lungfull!, nocturnes, and Traffic. =20 She was an art/poetry columnist for The Poetry Project Newsletter and =20= has published non-fiction essays in NY Arts Magazine, NYFA Quarterly, =20= and The Poetry Project Newsletter. Her work has also appeared in the =20 anthologies: Free Radicals: American Poets before their First Books, =20 (Subpress), edited by Jordan Davis and Sarah Manguso; and POeP! =20 (Rattapallax Press), edited by Edwin Torres and Anselm Berrigan, one =20 of the first eBook literary journals dedicated to innovative poetry. =20 She=92s the author of A Swarm of Bees in High Court (Belladonna Books) =20= and co-editor of Third Mind: Teaching Creative Writing Through Visual =20= Art (Teachers and Writers Collaborative). Foster is currently =20 completing A Mathematics of Chaos, a cross-genre, multi-media piece =20 about New Orleans, home, and home-buoys; Monkey Talk, an inter-genre =20 piece about race, paranoia, surveillance, and need; and A History of =20 the Bitch, a collection of poems. Foster received her bachelor of arts in English and political science =20= from Newcomb College, Tulane University, her master of fine arts in =20 creative writing from the University of Houston, and is a Ph.D. =20 candidate at City University of New York Graduate Center. A recipient =20= of a number of fellowships, notably from the Ford Foundation, the =20 Woodrow Wilson National Fellowship Foundation, and the City University =20= of New York, Foster teaches at Bard College. A native of New Orleans, =20= she writes and resides in Harlem. **Shafer Hall http://shaferhall.blogspot.com/ Shafer Hall is a poet and bartender in New York City. His first =20 collection "Never Cry Woof" is available from No Tell Books. He can be =20= found on the internet at the above url. **Brandon Holmquest http://essay-poems.blogspot.com/ Brandon Holmquest is the author of City: Bolshevik superpoem in 5 =20 cantos (Ugly Duckling), a translation of Manuel Maples Arce; Stereo =20 Daguerreotype (Splitleaves Press); and The Sorrows of Young Worthless =20= (Truck Press). He lives in Philadelphia. **Ivy Johnson Ivy Johnson is a vegetarian. Her Boog Reader Pamphlet Walt Disney=92s =20= Light Show Extravaganza will be out this fall. **erica kaufman http://sites.google.com/site/ericajane0808/ erica kaufman is the author of censory impulse. **Pattie McCarthy http://www.apogeepress.com/authors_mccarthy.html Pattie McCarthy is the author of Table Alphabetical of Hard Words, =20 Verso, and bk of (h)rs, all from Apogee Press. Recent work has =20 appeared in Colorado Review, Dusie, Eoagh, ixnay reader, The Poker, =20 The Poetry Project Newsletter, and The Tangent. She has taught =20 literature and creative writing at Queens College=97CUNY, Loyola =20 University Maryland, Towson University, and, currently, Temple =20 University. She lives in Philadelphia. **Carlos Soto Rom=E1n http://the-otolith.blogspot.com/2010/04/carlos-soto-roman.html Carlos Soto Rom=E1n was born in Valpara=EDso, Chile. He has published = the =20 books La Marcha de los Quiltros (The Mongrel's march), Haiku Minero =20 (Miner Haiku), and Cambio y Fuera (Over and Out). His work has been =20 collected in Bar (Anthology) and in Pozo (collective book). In 2004 he =20= received the Creation Fellowship of the Book & Reading Council of the =20= Chilean Government. He has resided in Philadelphia since March 2009, =20 is a member of The New Philadelphia Poets, and the editor of the new =20 cooperative anthology of U.S. poetry, Elective Affinities. **Brian Speaker http://www.myspace.com/speakerb http://www.reverbnation.com/brianspeaker Brian Speaker is a Brooklyn-based singer, songwriter, producer and =20 engineer. For one year, from September 3, 2008 to September 2, 2009, =20 Brian wrote, recorded and posted a song onto the Internet every single =20= day. The entire 365-song catalog, titled Spiral Notebook, is available =20= for free online. He is currently putting the finishing touches on a =20 rock opera about a lone spaceman's mission for inner-galactic peace =20 called The Mars Chronicles. Several of Brian's songs have appeared on =20= television, and his list of recording and production credits for =20 independent music in NYC is vast. **Kevin Varrone http://www.uglyducklingpresse.org/catalog/browse/item/?pubID=3D66 Kevin Varrone=92s most recent collection, g-point almanac: passyunk =20 lost, is just out from Ugly Duckling Presse, as is a companion =20 chapbook, The Philadelphia Improvements. His previous collection, g-=20 point almanac: id est, was published by Instance Press. Individual =20 poems are available electronically at Duration Press, in Big Bridge, =20 Cross Connect, and [out of nowhere]. He lives in South Philly and =20 teaches at Temple University. **Dustin Williamson http://rustbucklebooks.blogspot.com/ Dustin Williamson is the author of the chapbooks Obstructed View =20 (Salacious Banter), Gorilla Dust (Open 24 Hours), and Exhausted Grunts =20= (Cannibal Books). He is the publisher of Rust Buckle Books. He served =20= as the Monday Night coordinator last season at the Poetry Project. *Monday **Jeremiah Birnbaum of The Ramblers http://www.theramblersnyc.com/ http://www.jeremiahbirnbaum.com/ The Ramblers are a rock =92n=92 roll band based out of New York. They =20= released their new fan-funded CD, Getting There, to a packed house at =20= Joe's Pub and great reviews, including a Critic's Pick from New York =20 Magazine, and Blogcritics.org, who compared them to Little Feat, The =20 Band and the E Street Band. With Jeremiah Birnbaum, proverbial son-of-=20= a-preacherman (his dad's a rabbi) and Scott Stein at the helm=97sharing =20= singing duties and writing the band's material together=97The Ramblers' =20= unique brand of Americana fused with the best of Southern rock has =20 earned them a devoted following and the opportunity to open for Levon =20= Helm at his Midnight Ramble, where they received an encore and a =20 standing ovation. **Julian Brolaski http://electiveaffinitiesusa.blogspot.com/2010/02/julian-t-brolaski.html Julian T. Brolaski is the recent editor of NO GENDER: Reflections on =20 the Life & Work of kari edwards with erica kaufman and E. Tracy =20 Grinnell (Litmus Press), and author of the chapbook buck in a corridor =20= (flynpyntar), gowanus atropolis (forthcoming, Ugly Duckling) and =20 Advice for Lovers (forthcoming, City Lights). Brolaski lives in =20 Brooklyn where xe is an editor at Litmus Press, curates vaudeville =20 shows, and plays country music with The Low & the Lonesome. New work =20 is on the blog hermofwarsaw. **Joe Elliot http://www.sptraffic.org/html/book_reviews/elliot.html Joe Elliot ran a weekly reading series at Biblios Bookstore in the =20 early =9290s, and helped move the series to the Zinc Bar where it =20 continues. He co-edited two chapbook series: A Musty Bone and =20 Situations, which published authors such as Antje Katcher, Paul =20 Genega, Duncan Nichols, Mitch Highfill, Kim Lyons, Douglas Rothschild, =20= Shannon Ketch, Lisa Jarnot, Bill Luoma, Kevin Davies, Marcella Durand =20= and many others. Joe is the author of numerous chapbooks including: =20 You Gotta Go In It=92s The Big Game, Poems To Be Centered On Much Much =20= Larger Sheets Of Paper, 15 Clanking Radiators, 14 Knots, Reduced, Half =20= Gross (a collaboration with artist John Koos), and Object Lesson (a =20 collaboration with artist Rich O=92Russa). Granary Books published If It = =20 Rained Here, a collaboration with artist Julie Harrison. His work has =20= appeared in many magazines, including The World, The Poker, Giants =20 Play Well In The Drizzle, The Poetry Project Newsletter, Torque, and =20 Arras. His long poem, 101 Designs for The World Trade Center, was =20 published by Faux Press=92 e-mag, and a subpress published a collection =20= of his work, Opposable Thumb, in 2006. **Laura Elrick http://electiveaffinitiesusa.blogspot.com/2010/06/laura-elrick.html Laura Elrick=92s latest text-based work (as yet untitled) is a book-=20 length series of poems that proceeds by accretive and migratory =20 iteration; other works include a video-poem Stalk, a set of audio =20 pieces for doubled-voice, and two books of poetry:Fantasies in =20 Permeable Structures (Factory School), and sKincerity (Krupskaya). Her =20= essay =93Poetry, Ecology, and the Production of Lived Space=94 was =20 recently published in the the eco language reader edited by Brenda =20 Iijima (Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs/Nightboat Books). She lives in =20 Brooklyn. **Farrah Field http://adultish.blogspot.com/ Farrah Field=92s first book of poems, Rising, won Four Way Books=92 2007 = =20 Levis Prize. Her poems have appeared in many publications including =20 Harp & Altar, We Are So Happy to Know Something, Ploughshares, and are =20= forthcoming in Lit, Fou, and Mantis. She co-hosts a reading series =20 called Yardmeter Editions and blogs at the above url. **Mariana Ruiz Firmat http://www.brooklynrail.org/2010/03/poetry/two-mariana Mariana Ruiz Firmat is a poet and publisher of Three Sad Tigers Press. =20= Recent work can be found in the March 2010 issue of the Brooklyn Rail. =20= She is the author Another Strange Island (Open 24 Hours Press) and =20 Smiling Into the Noise (Boog Literature). After riding her bicycle =20 cross-country 11 years ago she landed in Brooklyn and has been there =20 ever since. She currently works as union organizer. For more =20 information about 3 sad tigers press please visit the website at: =20 3sadtigerspress.blogspot.com. **E. Tracy Grinnell http://jacketmagazine.com/40/at-grinnell-tracy.shtml E. Tracy Grinnell is the author of Helen: A Fugue (Belladonna Elder =20 Series #1), Some Clear Souvenir (O Books), and Music or Forgetting (O =20= Books), as well as the limited edition chapbooks Mirrorly, A Window =20 (flynpyntar), Leukadia (Trafficker Press), Hell and Lower Evil (Lyre =20 Lyre Pants on Fire), Humoresque (Blood Pudding/Dusie #3) Quadriga, a =20 collaboration with Paul Foster Johnson (gong chapbooks), Of the Frame =20= (Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs), and Harmonics(Melodeon Poetry =20 Systems). She is the founding editor of Litmus Press and Aufgabe, and =20= she lives in Brooklyn. **J.J. Hayes http://www.myspace.com/jjhayes J.J. Hayes writes poetry, song and philosophy. He has been published =20 occasionally. Steven Pinker in The Stuff of Thought quotes J.J=92s 2004 =20= letter =93One World Scientific Language?=94 as an example of = neo-Whorfian =20 linguistic determinism. J.J. is thinking about how to respond, but =20 wonders if his response will be determined by his language... **Chris Martin http://flavors.me/chrismartin Chris Martin is the author of American Music (Copper Canyon). Coffee =20 House Press will publish his second book of poetry, Becoming Weather, =20= next year. After editing the full 11-issue run of Puppy Flowers, he =20 recently retired it, though they can all still be seen on your =20 computer. He lives around the corner. **Cate Peebles http://www.foumagazine.net/ Cate Peebles' work has appeared in numerous print and online journals =20= including: Tin House, Octopus, CutBank, Cannibal, No Tell Motel, =20 Forklift, Ohio, and La Petite Zine. Her chapbook Taco Truck to =20 Awesometown was published by Scantily Clad Press last year. She co-=20 edits Fou, an online poetry magazine, and lives in Brooklyn. **Jared White http://jaredswhite.blogspot.com/ Jared White was born in Massachusetts and lives in New York. His =20 chapbook Yellowcake was included in the hand-sewn anthology Narwhal =20 from Cannibal Books. He has poems recently published or forthcoming in =20= Action Yes, Coconut, Fulcrum, Laurel Review, and Modern Review, and =20 essays in Harp & Altar, Open Letters Monthly, and Poets off Poetry. He =20= co-directs the Yardmeter Editions event series in Brooklyn and blogs =20 occasionally at the above url. *Tuesday **Satellite Telephone http://nolongdistance.endingthealphabet.org/ Satellite Telephone was founded in Portland, Ore. in 2007, on a =20 contact-high from the mimeo retrospective, A Secret Location on the =20 Lower East Side (Granary Books). Three editions have been issued =20 since, as the publication has moved from Portland, to Los Angeles, to =20= Buffalo. The vision of the zine will soon be manifest in a series of =20 chapbooks and broadsides as well, to be published under the imprint =20 Scary Topiary Press. **Franklin Bruno http://nervousuntothirst.blogspot.com/ Franklin Bruno is a musician and writer based in Queens. He has =20 recorded and toured as chief songwriter for the bands Nothing Painted =20= Blue and (currently) The Human Hearts, and as a solo artist. His most =20= recent release, Local Currency 1991-1998 (Fayettenam) collects four-=20 track/lo-fi recordings from out-of-print vinyl seven-inches and =20 compilations. He is a frequent collaborator with The Mountain Goats' =20 John Darnielle, both as a multi-instrumentalist on the acclaimed 4AD =20 albums The Sunset Tree and Tallahassee, and in the occasional duo The =20= Extra Glens. He is the author of a book on Elvis Costello's Armed =20 Forces in Continuum's 33 1/3 series, and of the poetry chapbook Policy =20= Instrument (Lame House). His poetry has appeared in Satellite =20 Telephone, The Brooklyn Rail, and Abraham Lincoln; his essays and =20 criticism, in The Nation, Oxford American, and The Believer. **Todd Colby http://gleefarm.blogspot.com/ Todd Colby has published four books of poetry: Ripsnort, Cush, Riot in =20= the Charm Factory: New and Selected Writings, and Tremble & Shine, all =20= published by Soft Skull Press. Todd has performed his poetry on PBS =20 and MTV, and his collaborative books and paintings with artist David =20 Lantow can be seen in the Brooklyn Museum of Art and The Museum of =20 Modern Art special collections libraries. Todd serves on the Board of =20= Directors for The Poetry Project, where he has also taught several =20 poetry workshops. **Robert Dewhurst http://endingthealphabet.org/ Robert Dewhurst edits Satellite Telephone, and co-edits Wild Orchids. =20= His poetry and critical prose have appeared in Satellite Telephone, =20 Peaches & Bats, On Contemporary Practice, and The Poetry Project =20 Newsletter. An essay of his on the 70s newspaper Gay Sunshine will =20 appear in the volume Porn Archives, forthcoming from SUNY Press. He =20 currently lives in Buffalo, NY, where he attends the Poetics Program =20 at SUNY-Buffalo. **Dorothea Lasky http://www.birdinsnow.com/ Dorothea Lasky is the author of two full-length collections of poetry, =20= AWE (Wave Books, 2007) and Black Life (Wave Books, 2010), and numerous =20= chapbooks. Currently, she researches creativity and education at the =20 University of Pennsylvania. **Eileen Myles http://www.eileenmyles.com/ Eileen Myles has written thousands of poems since she gave her first =20 reading at CBGB=92s in 1974. Her books include The Inferno, The =20 Importance of Being Iceland, Sorry, Tree, Skies, on my way, Cool for =20 You, School of Fish, Maxfield Parrish, Not Me, and Chelsea Girls. In =20 1995, with Liz Kotz, she edited The New Fuck You: Adventures in =20 Lesbian Reading, for Semiotext(e). **Rebekah Rutkoff http://fence.fenceportal.org/v13n1/ Rebekah Rutkoff is an artist, moving image curator and Ph.D. candidate =20= in the English Department at the CUNY Graduate Center. She lives in =20 Brooklyn. -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W. 28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://welcometoboogcity.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) To subscribe free to The December Podcast: = http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=3D3431698= 80 For music from Gilmore boys: http://www.myspace.com/gilmoreboysmusic= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 00:11:05 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Robert Dewhurst Subject: WILD ORCHIDS vol. 2: HANNAH WEINER MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Announcing WILD ORCHIDS vol. 2: HANNAH WEINER. 165 pgs. of creative criticism on and inspired by HANNAH WEINER. Essays & approaches by: Stan Apps, Jeremiah Bowen, Laynie Browne, CAConrad, Corina Copp, Kaplan Harris, Jennifer Karmin, Chris Kraus, Eileen Myles, Jennifer Russo, Marta Werner, Juliana Spahr, and Joey Yearous-Algozin. Additionally, the volume includes stunning 'NEW' MATERIAL by Weiner herself: selections from Hannah's previously unpublished THE BOOK OF REVELATIONS, a long-lost manuscript that was recently 'discovered' by Marta Werner in Weiner's archive at UCSD; as well as a full transcript of Weiner's 1995 conversation with Charles Bernstein for LINEbreak, made from producer Martín Spinelli's raw tape of the session which includes over twenty minutes of dialog that was edited out of the broadcast version. Only $9: . ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 23:12:44 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: William Allegrezza Subject: books for glances MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 If you have an extra copy of a book you have published in the past five years, send it to me for my daily glance project at p-ramblings (http://allegrezza.blogspot.com). Just e-mail me for my address. Bill ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 23:41:43 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Clark Coolidge Polaroid 20 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) perhaps just a tribute to "I Zimbra" in spirit, if not in feel.... may be of some interest here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2g1fgQlACo On Aug 17, 2010, at 9:01 PM, POETICS automatic digest system wrote: > There are 11 messages totalling 768 lines in this issue. > > Topics of the day: > > 1. One Writes Potatoe, Another Writes Pota[h]to > 2. American Book Award for Poems for the Millennium (6) > 3. MOSQUES, CHURCHES, APES, CESSPOOLS (3) > 4. Girlstock Art and Music Benefit - Saturday, August 21st Poetry > Readings -- > 5:00 > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:43:31 -0700 > From: Stephen Baraban > Subject: One Writes Potatoe, Another Writes Pota[h]to > > One Writes Potatoe, Another Writes Pota{h}to > OR, The Argument Need not be Souring > > > There now is a list-mate named Bowering, > Who might think that the others are cowering; > Though the offense be slight, > If the usage ain't right, > He'll rim-shot a scorn that is towering. > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:51:10 -0400 > From: Mark Weiss > Subject: Re: American Book Award for Poems for the Millennium > > Richly deserved. > > > At 04:53 PM 8/15/2010, you wrote: >> In advance of an official announcement, this is=20 >> to report that Poems for the Millennium, volume=20 >> 3: The University of California Book of Romantic=20 >> and Postromantic Poetry, edited by myself and=20 >> Jeffrey Robinson, will receive a 2010 American=20 >> Book Award from the Before Columbus=20 >> Foundation. It's my understanding that there=20 >> will be fourteen such awards over all, including=20 >> Amiri Baraka's The Afro-American Soul of=20 >> American Classical Music and Dave Eggers'=20 >> non-fiction narrative Zeitoun, both previously=20 >> announced, as well as a lifetime achievement=20 >> award for our old comrade-in-poetry Quincy Troupe. >> >> The nominating statement for Poems for the Millennium reads as >> follows: >> >> "Modernism rejected Romanticism in the way=20 >> that one political leader rejects another-not=20 >> because it is any different but because it=20 >> wishes to win the same audience. This book=20 >> demonstrates that the only thing that happened=20 >> in Modernism was that a door opened onto still=20 >> another aspect of the immense cultural=20 >> experiment that Romanticism was-or as=20 >> Rothenberg and Robinson might insist, as=20 >> Romanticisms were (are). Central issues were=20 >> what Rousseau called conscience de soi,=20 >> self-awareness (but a self-awareness which=20 >> deliberately did not separate itself from=20 >> 'world'), a new interest in ethnicity and the=20 >> local, and a shift from thinking of poetry as a=20 >> 'craft' and of the poet as 'maker,' to thinking=20 >> of it as a provoker of consciousness-even a=20 >> creator of consciousness-and of the poet as=20 >> Bard, Shaman. To know the work so carefully,=20 >> lovingly and brilliantly assembled in this book=20 >> is to know ourselves in a new and newly conscious way." >> >> An awards ceremony and reception will take place=20 >> on Sunday, September 19th from 1-4 p.m. at the=20 >> Koret Auditorium, San Francisco Main Library,=20 >> 100 Larkin Street, San Francisco, CA. >> >> = >> 3D >> = >> 3D >> = >> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept=20 >> all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. > $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a=20 > lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the=20 > poet alive in every sense of the word, and=20 > through every one of his senses. Instead of=20 > missing a beat or a part, Weiss=92 fragments are=20 > like Chekhov=92s short stories=ADthe more that gets=20 > left out, the more they seem to contain=85 One can=20 > hear echoes from all the various=20 > ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its=20 > core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment=20 > is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure=20 > musical threnody=85[it] opens a window, not only=20 > into a mind, but a person, a personality, this=20 > human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket.=20 > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 15:02:29 -0400 > From: Mairead Byrne > Subject: Re: American Book Award for Poems for the Millennium > > that's wonderful. hope to assign it for contemporary poetry class > next > year. > x > mair=E9ad > > On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Ruth Lepson > wrote= > : > >> This is fantastic, Jerome. You know I had hoped to review the book, >> havin= > g >> worked it when a student did an independent study with me, but I >> haven't >> been up to it. I am happy to hear that the award is justly given. >> >> >> On 8/15/10 4:53 PM, "Jerome Rothenberg" wrote: >> >>> In advance of an official announcement, this is to report that >>> Poems fo= > r >> the >>> Millennium, volume 3: The University of California Book of >>> Romantic and >>> Postromantic Poetry, edited by myself and Jeffrey Robinson, will >>> receiv= > e >> a >>> 2010 American Book Award from the Before Columbus Foundation. >>> It's my >>> understanding that there will be fourteen such awards over all, >>> includi= > ng >>> Amiri Baraka's The Afro-American Soul of American Classical Music >>> and >> Dave >>> Eggers' non-fiction narrative Zeitoun, both previously announced, >>> as we= > ll >> as a >>> lifetime achievement award for our old comrade-in-poetry Quincy >>> Troupe. >>> >>> The nominating statement for Poems for the Millennium reads as >>> follows: >>> >>> "Modernism rejected Romanticism in the way that one political leader >> rejects >>> another-not because it is any different but because it wishes to >>> win th= > e >> same >>> audience. This book demonstrates that the only thing that happened >>> in >>> Modernism was that a door opened onto still another aspect of the >>> immen= > se >>> cultural experiment that Romanticism was-or as Rothenberg and >>> Robinson >> might >>> insist, as Romanticisms were (are). Central issues were what >>> Rousseau >> called >>> conscience de soi, self-awareness (but a self-awareness which >> deliberately did >>> not separate itself from 'world'), a new interest in ethnicity and >>> the >> local, >>> and a shift from thinking of poetry as a 'craft' and of the poet as >> 'maker,' >>> to thinking of it as a provoker of consciousness-even a creator of >>> consciousness-and of the poet as Bard, Shaman. To know the work so >> carefully, >>> lovingly and brilliantly assembled in this book is to know >>> ourselves in= > a >> new >>> and newly conscious way." >>> >>> An awards ceremony and reception will take place on Sunday, >>> September >> 19th >>> from 1-4 p.m. at the Koret Auditorium, San Francisco Main Library, >>> 100 >> Larkin >>> Street, San Francisco, CA. >>> >>> = >>> 3D >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & >>> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> = >> 3D >> = >> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelin= > es >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > > > --=20 > http://www.whatsleftofheaven.com/ > > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 15:03:10 -0400 > From: Murat Nemet-Nejat > Subject: Re: American Book Award for Poems for the Millennium > > Jerome and Jeffrey, > > Well earned congratulations. The nominating statement is entirely to > the > point. > > Ciao, > > Murat > > > On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Jerome Rothenberg >wrote: > >> In advance of an official announcement, this is to report that >> Poems for >> the Millennium, volume 3: The University of California Book of >> Romantic and >> Postromantic Poetry, edited by myself and Jeffrey Robinson, will >> receive a >> 2010 American Book Award from the Before Columbus Foundation. It's >> my >> understanding that there will be fourteen such awards over all, >> including >> Amiri Baraka's The Afro-American Soul of American Classical Music >> and Dave >> Eggers' non-fiction narrative Zeitoun, both previously announced, >> as well as >> a lifetime achievement award for our old comrade-in-poetry Quincy >> Troupe. >> Jer >> The nominating statement for Poems for the Millennium reads as >> follows: >> >> "Modernism rejected Romanticism in the way that one political leader >> rejects another-not because it is any different but because it >> wishes to win >> the same audience. This book demonstrates that the only thing that >> happened >> in Modernism was that a door opened onto still another aspect of >> the immense >> cultural experiment that Romanticism was-or as Rothenberg and >> Robinson might >> insist, as Romanticisms were (are). Central issues were what >> Rousseau called >> conscience de soi, self-awareness (but a self-awareness which >> deliberately >> did not separate itself from 'world'), a new interest in ethnicity >> and the >> local, and a shift from thinking of poetry as a 'craft' and of the >> poet as >> 'maker,' to thinking of it as a provoker of consciousness-even a >> creator of >> consciousness-and of the poet as Bard, Shaman. To know the work so >> carefully, lovingly and brilliantly assembled in this book is to know >> ourselves in a new and newly conscious way." >> >> An awards ceremony and reception will take place on Sunday, >> September 19th >> from 1-4 p.m. at the Koret Auditorium, San Francisco Main Library, >> 100 >> Larkin Street, San Francisco, CA. >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 12:03:38 -0700 > From: steve russell > Subject: Re: MOSQUES, CHURCHES, APES, CESSPOOLS > > Wait a minute. You didn't clean up AFTER the dog. You actually > cleaned=C2= > =A0 THE DOG.=20 > I'm speechless. That sort of thing doesn't happen in my > neighborhood.=20 > =C2=A0 > --- On Sat, 8/14/10, Jared Schickling wrote: > > > From: Jared Schickling > Subject: Re: MOSQUES, CHURCHES, APES, CESSPOOLS > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Saturday, August 14, 2010, 1:38 AM > > > Dear Steve, Alan, and whomever else, > > > > your posts =E2=80=93 > > > > Taking Steve=E2=80=99s idea of the present / nearing > =E2=80=9CEnd,=E2=80=9D= > and > everything that suggests, as a baseline proposition=E2=80=94and less > concer= > ned with the > accuracy of a truth than a thinking sensibility=E2=80=94much less > any washe= > d set of > theory that doesn=E2=80=99t offer something we=E2=80=99ve > missed=E2=80=94ho= > w is one to think of a > relevant poetry?=C2=A0 What would a relevant > poetry be?=C2=A0 What is a relevant poetry?=C2=A0 Affirmation and > change an= > d hope and things > of that ilk don=E2=80=99t seem to go anywhere=E2=80=94as according > to the p= > roposition they are > inaccurate.=C2=A0 Yet one persists insisting=E2=80=A6 > > > > A far-flung surrealism is acutely popular, and so would be > apparently perceived as somehow relevant.=20 > And yet so is a staunch eco poetic.=20 > Alan=E2=80=99s post of xenophobia, corruption and broken glass > alongside th= > e > systematicity of Pantomime Ape of Free Will speaks, perhaps, to > where the t= > wo > cohabitate.=C2=A0 Nature nurtured.=C2=A0=20 > > > > In the end, and without much argument, I=E2=80=99m inclined to see > this as formal questions.=C2=A0 CA Conrad=E2=80=99s > recent brief =E2=80=9Creview=E2=80=9D at Futurepost is peculiar, > even if I= > =E2=80=99m quite possibly > overstating my case, but it has me wondering:=20 > > > > =E2=80=9CThe term =E2=80=98Identity Politics=E2=80=99 is bad > enough.=C2=A0 = > It=E2=80=99s > meant to annihilate the efforts of those who literally bled for the > room th= > ey > made for us all.=C2=A0 =E2=80=98Identity Politics=E2=80=99 makes a > joke of = > it.=C2=A0 It says > that all it ever was was wallowing in the filth and conspiracy of > politics,= > a > game, it=E2=80=99s all just been a game.=E2=80=9D > > > > While we do know politics would hardly change (have changed) > without politics.=C2=A0 Part of the public > social artist=E2=80=99s civil agenda is to force action, > political.=C2=A0 U= > sing, as with more faith in, artistic, > biologic means of a-political, corrosive substance.=C2=A0 Any blood, > here, = > IS identity politics.=C2=A0 Conrad=E2=80=99s joke is perverse > because, as I= > read it, it can=E2=80=99t achieve > itself, so that it does.=C2=A0 It is literal > in its bleeding, sur-real and eco-logical, like a complete thought > about th= > e > body.=C2=A0=20 > > > > And yet I don=E2=80=99t think the passage, nor a review that > =E2=80=9Cwipes > me out=E2=80=9D for that matter (=E2=80=9Cevie=E2=80=9D=E2=80=99s > reply), h= > as intended this.=C2=A0 It seems to bear the burden of its own > conviction.=C2=A0=20 > > > > (Here I should suggest the value of all this.=C2=A0 Well, upon now > thinking= > about this which is > something I wasn=E2=80=99t thinking about before, today I resisted > not toss= > ing some > recyclables.=C2=A0 And I apologized to > someone for something.=C2=A0 And cleaned up > the dog in the neighbor=E2=80=99s yard.=C2=A0 Etc, > coincidence perhaps.=C2=A0 Which would be > such work to parcel out.=C2=A0 Also against the > original proposition.=C2=A0 Einstein=E2=80=99s > definition of insanity.) > > > > How is such a method, a process unintentional, defeated yet conjured, > to be systemized, formalized, etc & et al discussed, articulated? > =C2=A0 In = > a relevant way?=20 > > > > Just a question.=20 > Available on or off list.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 > =C2=A0= > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 > = > 3D > = > 3D > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines= > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =0A=0A=0A > > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 15:07:29 -0400 > From: Alan Sondheim > Subject: Re: MOSQUES, CHURCHES, APES, CESSPOOLS > > isn't that what we all do? talk about things unrelated to politics? > > have you seen Fox news lately? how long should we be delicate? > > if anyone has ideas of direct action, cultural or otherwise, please > backchannel > > On Sun, 15 Aug 2010, michael farrell wrote: > >> hi jared >> >> i like your tone >> >> id like to consider different tones as a way of nutting out something >> >> political tones leave me cold >> >> many radio tones grate >> >> close readings of voice (close listening - bernstein) get blocked >> by listeners horror at words spoken >> >> we complain about whats being done to language but not the >> ultimately contemptuous tones used to voice it >> >> id like to see a debate or an interview where a key word or >> discourse is >> focused on but in relation to (contesting) the (habitual) tone being >> used >> >> q: "can you talk like a human being?" "maybe try talking about >> something unrelated to politics first" >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 23:38:01 -0600 >>> From: jschickl@HOTMAIL.COM >>> Subject: Re: MOSQUES, CHURCHES, APES, CESSPOOLS >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> >>> Dear Steve, Alan, and whomever else, >>> >>> >>> >>> your posts ? >>> >>> >>> >>> Taking Steve?s idea of the present / nearing ?End,? and >>> everything that suggests, as a baseline proposition?and less >>> concerned with the >>> accuracy of a truth than a thinking sensibility?much less any >>> washed set of >>> theory that doesn?t offer something we?ve missed?how is one to >>> think of a >>> relevant poetry? What would a relevant >>> poetry be? What is a relevant poetry? Affirmation and change and >>> hope and things >>> of that ilk don?t seem to go anywhere?as according to the >>> proposition they are >>> inaccurate. Yet one persists insisting? >>> >>> >>> >>> A far-flung surrealism is acutely popular, and so would be >>> apparently perceived as somehow relevant. >>> And yet so is a staunch eco poetic. >>> Alan?s post of xenophobia, corruption and broken glass alongside the >>> systematicity of Pantomime Ape of Free Will speaks, perhaps, to >>> where the two >>> cohabitate. Nature nurtured. >>> >>> >>> >>> In the end, and without much argument, I?m inclined to see >>> this as formal questions. CA Conrad?s >>> recent brief ?review? at Futurepost is peculiar, even if I?m quite >>> possibly >>> overstating my case, but it has me wondering: >>> >>> >>> >>> ?The term ?Identity Politics? is bad enough. It?s >>> meant to annihilate the efforts of those who literally bled for >>> the room they >>> made for us all. ?Identity Politics? makes a joke of it. It says >>> that all it ever was was wallowing in the filth and conspiracy of >>> politics, a >>> game, it?s all just been a game.? >>> >>> >>> >>> While we do know politics would hardly change (have changed) >>> without politics. Part of the public >>> social artist?s civil agenda is to force action, political. >>> Using, as with more faith in, artistic, >>> biologic means of a-political, corrosive substance. Any blood, >>> here, IS identity politics. Conrad?s joke is perverse because, as >>> I read it, it can?t achieve >>> itself, so that it does. It is literal >>> in its bleeding, sur-real and eco-logical, like a complete thought >>> about the >>> body. >>> >>> >>> >>> And yet I don?t think the passage, nor a review that ?wipes >>> me out? for that matter (?evie??s reply), has intended this. It >>> seems to bear the burden of its own >>> conviction. >>> >>> >>> >>> (Here I should suggest the value of all this. Well, upon now >>> thinking about this which is >>> something I wasn?t thinking about before, today I resisted not >>> tossing some >>> recyclables. And I apologized to >>> someone for something. And cleaned up >>> the dog in the neighbor?s yard. Etc, >>> coincidence perhaps. Which would be >>> such work to parcel out. Also against the >>> original proposition. Einstein?s >>> definition of insanity.) >>> >>> >>> >>> How is such a method, a process unintentional, defeated yet >>> conjured, >>> to be systemized, formalized, etc & et al discussed, articulated? >>> In a relevant way? >>> >>> >>> >>> Just a question. >>> Available on or off list. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> > > > == > email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ > webpage http://www.alansondheim.org > music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ > == > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 15:42:13 -0500 > From: Maria Damon > Subject: Re: American Book Award for Poems for the Millennium > > Mazel Tov, Jerry. Well-deserved indeed. > > Jerome Rothenberg wrote: >> In advance of an official announcement, this is to report that >> Poems fo= > r the Millennium, volume 3: The University of California Book of > Romantic= > and Postromantic Poetry, edited by myself and Jeffrey Robinson, will > rec= > eive a 2010 American Book Award from the Before Columbus > Foundation. It'= > s my understanding that there will be fourteen such awards over all, > incl= > uding Amiri Baraka's The Afro-American Soul of American Classical > Music a= > nd Dave Eggers' non-fiction narrative Zeitoun, both previously > announced,= > as well as a lifetime achievement award for our old comrade-in- > poetry Qu= > incy Troupe.=20 >> >> The nominating statement for Poems for the Millennium reads as >> follows:= > >> >> "Modernism rejected Romanticism in the way that one political >> leader r= > ejects another-not because it is any different but because it wishes > to w= > in the same audience. This book demonstrates that the only thing > that hap= > pened in Modernism was that a door opened onto still another aspect > of th= > e immense cultural experiment that Romanticism was-or as Rothenberg > and R= > obinson might insist, as Romanticisms were (are). Central issues > were wha= > t Rousseau called conscience de soi, self-awareness (but a self- > awareness= > which deliberately did not separate itself from 'world'), a new > interest= > in ethnicity and the local, and a shift from thinking of poetry as a > 'cr= > aft' and of the poet as 'maker,' to thinking of it as a provoker of > consc= > iousness-even a creator of consciousness-and of the poet as Bard, > Shaman.= > To know the work so carefully, lovingly and brilliantly assembled in > thi= > s book is to know ourselves in a new and newly conscious way." >> >> An awards ceremony and reception will take place on Sunday, >> September 1= > 9th from 1-4 p.m. at the Koret Auditorium, San Francisco Main > Library, 10= > 0 Larkin Street, San Francisco, CA. >> >> = >> 3D >> = >> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidel= > ines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> =20 > > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 00:14:26 +0000 > From: Jesse Glass > Subject: Re: American Book Award for Poems for the Millennium > > Congratulations! Fantastic book. Jess > > On 8/15/2010, "Jerome Rothenberg" wrote: > >> In advance of an official announcement, this is to report that >> Poems for the Millennium, volume 3: The University of California >> Book of Romantic and Postromantic Poetry, edited by myself and >> Jeffrey Robinson, will receive a 2010 American Book Award from the >> Before Columbus Foundation. It's my understanding that there will >> be fourteen such awards over all, including Amiri Baraka's The Afro- >> American Soul of American Classical Music and Dave Eggers' non- >> fiction narrative Zeitoun, both previously announced, as well as a >> lifetime achievement award for our old comrade-in-poetry Quincy >> Troupe. >> >> The nominating statement for Poems for the Millennium reads as >> follows: >> >> "Modernism rejected Romanticism in the way that one political >> leader rejects another-not because it is any different but because >> it wishes to win the same audience. This book demonstrates that the >> only thing that happened in Modernism was that a door opened onto >> still another aspect of the immense cultural experiment that >> Romanticism was-or as Rothenberg and Robinson might insist, as >> Romanticisms were (are). Central issues were what Rousseau called >> conscience de soi, self-awareness (but a self-awareness which >> deliberately did not separate itself from 'world'), a new interest >> in ethnicity and the local, and a shift from thinking of poetry as >> a 'craft' and of the poet as 'maker,' to thinking of it as a >> provoker of consciousness-even a creator of consciousness-and of >> the poet as Bard, Shaman. To know the work so carefully, lovingly >> and brilliantly assembled in this book is to know ourselves in a >> new and newly conscious way." >> >> An awards ceremony and reception will take place on Sunday, >> September 19th from 1-4 p.m. at the Koret Auditorium, San Francisco >> Main Library, 100 Larkin Street, San Francisco, CA. >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 22:56:57 -0600 > From: Jared Schickling > Subject: Re: MOSQUES, CHURCHES, APES, CESSPOOLS > > Michael=2C and Tyrone=2C > > I appreciate it. But I don't understand the question. Truly. > Tyrone you = > did not ask a question. So Michael. Is there some thing I do=2C > something= > wonderful it must be=2C that isn't political? Economic? I'll > anticipate = > your answer=2C at the risk of being wrong=2C and argue=2C that's the > purpos= > e of trying an angle. i think emily dickinson said that. and > that's how m= > osquitoes win. Only after they're there are you free to swat them. > I also= > remember something from Foucault somewhere=2C on a Facebook post > (serious)= > =2C when asked why he must always make everything political. His > response= > =2C which I'm butchering=2C involved something about caring for that > which = > of the greatest consequence for the greatest number. > > > > The reason I respond in this way is because I=92m not all that > singular=2C and because this is a public forum.=20 > I believe in these things like the poem but not like the poetry of the > poem=2C it=92s not ideal like that=2C but I do believe that someone > sits do= > wn to all > kinds of pages and may return transformed.=20 > Or not transformed. Or > transformed by degrees with all kinds of transformations. These if > at all = > are mostly incremental. What lasting import. But what does > permanent tran= > sformation > require. I think I read that on a > listserv. That=92s the difference even if > a little beside the point between popular and literary > literatures=3B the o= > ne > returns you equipped differently. So what does that mean. Do I > recycle? Yes=3B but it=92s piling up rather > quickly as I=92m rather lazy in these things which I don=92t throw > away. A= > m I still vegan? I was but my wife=92s a chef=2C and I couldn=92t > be so lu= > cky. And I like my share in neighbor cow. Do I clean up the dog on > the wa= > lk > like I should? Mow the grass? (cf. lazy.)=20 > I take these responsibilities very seriously=2C and I don=92t need to > convince anyone that worlds are ending.=20 > > > =20 > > But the question was=2C what about entering this contest when > you=92ve opened your big trap on the matter contrarily. =20 > > I don't know if that addresses your question because I don't > understand the= > question. =20 > > > > But I'll bet if we were face to face and allowed to smoke our talk > and thou= > ghts would be unrecognizable. I read about that recently on a > listserv too= > . =20 > > Sincerely=2C > Jared=20 > > > > > = > > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 06:29:14 -0800 > From: carol dorf > Subject: Girlstock Art and Music Benefit - Saturday, August 21st > Poetry Readings -- 5:00 > > I'll be reading at the Girlstock benefit for the Women's Cancer > Resource > Center with Susan Terris and Autumn Stephens. Afterwards there will be > music, and other performances. > > Saturday, August 21 > Carol Dorf (with Susan Terris and Autumn Stephens) > at Girlstock, Evening 4 > Mina Dresden Gallery > 312 Valencia @ 14th street, San Francisco > 5:00-6:30 (I don't think we'll actually be reading before 5:30) > for more info-- http://www.girlstock.com/girlstock.html > > All best, > Carol > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:56:44 -0700 > From: Aldon Nielsen > Subject: Re: American Book Award for Poems for the Millennium > > That is great news -- When they gave the award to Lorenzo Thomas's > DON'T > DENY MY NAME I had a great time at the ceremony in a Berkeley jazz > club -- > Ish played piano! > > The Amiri title in Jerome's post may confuse some folk -- that's the > book's > subtitle -- It refers to his U of California Press collection of music > essays titled DIGGING. > > -- > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > Department of English > 117 Burrowes Building > The Pennsylvania State University > University Park, PA > 16802-6200 > > > aln10@psu.edu > > sailing the blogosphere at http://heatstrings.blogspot.com > > "kindling his mind (more > than his mind will kindle)" > > --William Carlos Williams, early adopter > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ------------------------------ > > End of POETICS Digest - 16 Aug 2010 to 17 Aug 2010 (#2010-192) > ************************************************************** ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:57:06 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: CA Conrad Subject: CHINATOWN Philadelphia (Soma)tic Poetry Workshop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 CHINATOWN Philadelphia (Soma)tic Poetry Workshop Limited number of participants. To register and see more details please visit: http://myforehead.blogspot.com/ This is going to be an amazing time! Hope to see you there! CAConrad -- PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 14:17:08 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Paul Siegell Subject: book trailers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" hello friends, gotta few minutes to cross the Ben Franklin Bridge and enjoy a book trailer or three over on YouTube?=20 speakers up: > NEW: jambandbootleg: http://bit.ly/cBn6oq > SORTA NEW: wild life rifle fire: http://bit.ly/aLaNz2 > WAS ONCE NEW: Poemergency Room: http://bit.ly/bIJNxD whaddaya think? many thanks, paul> http://paulsiegell.blogspot.com/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 12:04:26 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: American Book Award for Poems for the Millennium In-Reply-To: <4C69A2A5.5020905@umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The nominating statement for Poems for the Millennium reads as follows: > > "Modernism rejected Romanticism in the way that one political leader > rejects another-not because it is any different but because it wishes to > win the same audience. This book demonstrates that the only thing that > happened in Modernism was that a door opened onto still another aspect of > the immense cultural experiment that Romanticism was-or as Rothenberg and > Robinson might insist, as Romanticisms were (are). Central issues were > what Rousseau called conscience de soi, self-awareness (but a > self-awareness which deliberately did not separate itself from 'world'), a > new interest in ethnicity and the local, and a shift from thinking of > poetry as a 'craft' and of the poet as 'maker,' to thinking of it as a > provoker of consciousness-even a creator of consciousness-and of the poet > as Bard, Shaman. To know the work so carefully, lovingly and brilliantly > assembled in this book is to know ourselves in a new and newly conscious > way." Congrats on the award. That's a pretty odd above paragraph, though. Uh, a very romantic paragraph. Like it was written by someone trying hard to pretend to be a thinker and critic with some historical perspective. Modernism is a huge historical period that spans from around 1910 to 1955 or so. Poetry changed quite a bit in that time. Pound, Eliot, Stevens, Apollinaire, yada yada. Dada. Futurism, The world went through two world wars. Technological change went through the roof. Poetry developed as a written thing very dramatically during modernism. The poetry of people like Pound, Eliot, and Stevens explores the possibilities of writing and reading way beyond a document as 'score' simply meant to be read aloud. The notion of 'voice' goes through huge changes. The notions of juxtaposition, collage, and visuality enter poetry with great strength. And so much more. ja http://vispo.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 12:46:35 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: MOSQUES, CHURCHES, APES, CESSPOOLS In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jared, I hope you'll excuse my=C2=A0most recent (glib)=C2=A0sound/bite. I'm= afraid I have no idea how to address the question of what may or may not b= e relevant in=C2=A0poetry or what could possibly be considered a "relevant = poetry." I was at a lose when I saw the post concerning the Renewel of Spir= titually in contemporary poetics. Poetry, after all, is a thing of the spir= it, yes? So why must it be renewed? Of course, it would be nice if more poe= ts addressed the urgent concerns of the day rather than dwell exclusively= =C2=A0on private matters. Yeats was very active in Irish politics. Ditto Po= und (though not Irish=C2=A0issues=C2=A0... & too bad he...), Eliot ( too ba= d he, too...), and=C2=A0Lawrence ( my favorite writer/poet/period). The wor= d Relevant frightens me. When I hear it, I quickly become a Beckett tramp -= - I ask myself, "Am I beginning to Mean Something." I'm simply not prepared= for the burden of even considering what is or isn't relevant in contempora= ry art & poetry. Consider: I'm presently listening to a beautiful Jeff Beck lick from the l= ate 70s. & it strikes me as=C2=A0prefectly relevant. Why? Because it's beau= tiful. & what makes it beautiful? Because Beck=C2=A0has mastered the tools = of his trade and plays beautifully.=20 =C2=A0 Enjoyed your post. Take care -- =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --- On Sat, 8/14/10, Jared Schickling wrote: From: Jared Schickling Subject: Re: MOSQUES, CHURCHES, APES, CESSPOOLS To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Saturday, August 14, 2010, 1:38 AM Dear Steve, Alan, and whomever else, your posts =E2=80=93 Taking Steve=E2=80=99s idea of the present / nearing =E2=80=9CEnd,=E2=80=9D= and everything that suggests, as a baseline proposition=E2=80=94and less concer= ned with the accuracy of a truth than a thinking sensibility=E2=80=94much less any washe= d set of theory that doesn=E2=80=99t offer something we=E2=80=99ve missed=E2=80=94ho= w is one to think of a relevant poetry?=C2=A0 What would a relevant poetry be?=C2=A0 What is a relevant poetry?=C2=A0 Affirmation and change an= d hope and things of that ilk don=E2=80=99t seem to go anywhere=E2=80=94as according to the p= roposition they are inaccurate.=C2=A0 Yet one persists insisting=E2=80=A6 A far-flung surrealism is acutely popular, and so would be apparently perceived as somehow relevant.=20 And yet so is a staunch eco poetic.=20 Alan=E2=80=99s post of xenophobia, corruption and broken glass alongside th= e systematicity of Pantomime Ape of Free Will speaks, perhaps, to where the t= wo cohabitate.=C2=A0 Nature nurtured.=C2=A0=20 In the end, and without much argument, I=E2=80=99m inclined to see this as formal questions.=C2=A0 CA Conrad=E2=80=99s recent brief =E2=80=9Creview=E2=80=9D at Futurepost is peculiar, even if I= =E2=80=99m quite possibly overstating my case, but it has me wondering:=20 =E2=80=9CThe term =E2=80=98Identity Politics=E2=80=99 is bad enough.=C2=A0 = It=E2=80=99s meant to annihilate the efforts of those who literally bled for the room th= ey made for us all.=C2=A0 =E2=80=98Identity Politics=E2=80=99 makes a joke of = it.=C2=A0 It says that all it ever was was wallowing in the filth and conspiracy of politics,= a game, it=E2=80=99s all just been a game.=E2=80=9D While we do know politics would hardly change (have changed) without politics.=C2=A0 Part of the public social artist=E2=80=99s civil agenda is to force action, political.=C2=A0 U= sing, as with more faith in, artistic, biologic means of a-political, corrosive substance.=C2=A0 Any blood, here, = IS identity politics.=C2=A0 Conrad=E2=80=99s joke is perverse because, as I= read it, it can=E2=80=99t achieve itself, so that it does.=C2=A0 It is literal in its bleeding, sur-real and eco-logical, like a complete thought about th= e body.=C2=A0=20 And yet I don=E2=80=99t think the passage, nor a review that =E2=80=9Cwipes me out=E2=80=9D for that matter (=E2=80=9Cevie=E2=80=9D=E2=80=99s reply), h= as intended this.=C2=A0 It seems to bear the burden of its own conviction.=C2=A0=20 (Here I should suggest the value of all this.=C2=A0 Well, upon now thinking= about this which is something I wasn=E2=80=99t thinking about before, today I resisted not toss= ing some recyclables.=C2=A0 And I apologized to someone for something.=C2=A0 And cleaned up the dog in the neighbor=E2=80=99s yard.=C2=A0 Etc, coincidence perhaps.=C2=A0 Which would be such work to parcel out.=C2=A0 Also against the original proposition.=C2=A0 Einstein=E2=80=99s definition of insanity.) How is such a method, a process unintentional, defeated yet conjured, to be systemized, formalized, etc & et al discussed, articulated?=C2=A0 In = a relevant way?=20 Just a question.=20 Available on or off list.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 20:05:43 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: stephanie barber Subject: Fwd: Stephanie Barber REPRINT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hello all, below is the announcement for the reprinting of my* **book these here separated to see how they standing alone* this is a transcription of the soundtracks of 6 of my films and videos with a disc of these 6 included. this is put out by the excellent *publishing genius press* and i'm really happy with it. the new cover is a drawing by the terrific peter barrickman= ! the pre-order price is $14 and then it goes up to $20 i think. so, read about it below and if you haven't gotten one think about ordering from the press now while you can save a few clams. check out the other great titles at publishing genius press and the amazing drawings and paintings of peter barrickman. be well and thank you and let me know if you want freedom from the eternal bondage of this email list, i will oblige. promise. [image: Pgblogbanner] Publishing Genius is pleased to announce the re-release of Stephanie Barber's book and DVD, *These Here Separated to See How They Standing Alone or the Soundtracks of Six Films by Stephanie Barber *. The collection packages a DVD of six of Barber's films with a print version of their soundtracks. The new version is redesigned, and features a cover drawing by Peter Barrickman. Barber's films and artwork have shown internationally at festivals and museums like MOMA, NY Film Festival, the Tate Modern, Rotterdam, the Poor Farm and others. Her writing was recently selected by Brian Evenson for the Wigleaf Top 50. In July, *Artforum* praised her work, saying, "Barber is a modernist artist fashioning . . . appealing and opaque documents that speak to our emotional lives." The book/DVD is available now for preorder at the Publishing Genius website= , PublishingGenius.com, and will ship on September 1. The preorder price is discounted to $14, more than 25% off. For questions, review copies, or to contact Stephanie Barber, email Adam Robinson at adam@publishinggenius.com. [image: facebook] [image: twitter] =A92010 Publishing Genius | 2200 Maryland Ave C1 | Baltimore MD | 21218 This email was sent to barber.s.barber@gmail.com. To ensure that you continue receiving our emails, please add us to your address book or safe list. View this email on the web here . You can also forward to a friend . Unsubscribe Powered by Mad Mimi=AE --=20 stephanie http://stephaniebarber.com/ http://www.publishinggenius.com/2007/09/these-here-separated-to-see-how-the= y.html 1818 east lafayette ave. baltimore md 21213 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 12:56:19 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nick LoLordo Subject: Re: One Writes Potatoe, Another Writes Pota[h]to In-Reply-To: <4C6AB4AD.5040401@usask.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 There was once(1) a subscriber named "Clark" Who would simply not tolerate snark. Her dudgeon rose high, til She clicked on "reply"-- Clark's remarks missed their mark. We LIKE snark! (1) until very recently ********** On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Hilary Clark wrote: > Dear list, > > Snide attacks such as the limerick below are pathetic. Aren't all members > on this list free to make comments of the sort George Bowering made? Or are > some members more equal than others? > > I am unsubscribing from this list. > > Hilary Clark > > Stephen Baraban wrote: > >> One Writes Potatoe, Another Writes Pota{h}to >> OR, The Argument Need not be Souring >> >> >> There now is a list-mate named Bowering, >> Who might think that the others are cowering; >> Though the offense be slight, >> If the usage ain't right, >> He'll rim-shot a scorn that is towering. >> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > -- V. Nicholas LoLordo (702) 595-1108 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 20:46:27 +0100 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Elizabeth Switaj Subject: Re: Comments in Chinese In-Reply-To: <3b03e.fe16e19.399b0d31@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Babelfish is highly unreliable when it comes to the translation of Chinese. You could run a menu through it and it will come out sounding like a "wisdom saying" half the time. As for censorship, not sure that it relates to the question you've asked, but the Great Fire Wall of China is pretty spotty and it doesn't take much technical knowledge to get around, though there can be serious consequences if something is traced back to a particular person. On 16 August 2010 22:52, Ann Bogle wrote: > > I've been told that comments in Chinese to weblogs are "spam." I have > deleted a few of those comments. Then I realized that they may not be spam > but > may be legitimate comments. I have begun to translate 14 of them using > Babelfish. They seem to be wisdom sayings, such as this one: "The success > may > attract the friend, frustrates may test the friend." I'd like information > -- > if anyone has experience -- about issues in Chinese blogging, including > censorship. > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:21:53 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Stephen Baraban Subject: Re: One Writes Potatoe, Another Writes Pota[h]to Comments: cc: hilary.clark@USASK.CA In-Reply-To: <4C6AB4AD.5040401@usask.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh, dear.=20 Snide? I was trying to be amiably humorous, regarding the different attitud= es that have been expressed about grammatical, spelling, etc. correctness, = prompted by George Bowering's recent posting, and the history of his simila= r postings.=20 I ADMIRE people who are sticklers for what they feel is important, so I was= n't trying to say that what I called "a scorn that is towering" is such a t= errible thing. I thought that was clear both from invoking the humorous son= g "You say potayto, and I say potahto", and from the phrase "the argument n= eed not be souring". I think I am being mistaken for one of the very angry people who are someti= mes/often found in poetry these days--I hope I can be understand as not suc= h--and I certainly hope no-one will actually unsubscribe because of this.= =20 Stephen M. Baraban aspiring-to-be-non-boorish USAmerican {and I am truly grateful to G.B. for = passing on the formulation "USAmerican"] =20 =20 --- On Tue, 8/17/10, Hilary Clark wrote: > From: Hilary Clark > Subject: Re: One Writes Potatoe, Another Writes Pota[h]to > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 12:11 PM > Dear list, >=20 > Snide attacks such as the limerick below are pathetic. > Aren't all members on this list free to make comments of the > sort George Bowering made? Or are some members more equal > than others? >=20 > I am unsubscribing from this list. >=20 > Hilary Clark >=20 > Stephen Baraban wrote: > > One Writes Potatoe, Another Writes Pota{h}to > > OR, The Argument Need not be Souring > >=20 > >=20 > > There now is a list-mate named Bowering, > > Who might think that the others are cowering; > > Though the offense be slight, > > If the usage ain't right, > > He'll rim-shot a scorn that is towering.=20 > >=20 > >=A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept > all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poet= ics/welcome.html > >=A0=A0=A0 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all > posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/= welcome.html > =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 16:22:10 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: American Book Award for Poems for the Millennium In-Reply-To: <953A658CE4504557BB9CEFACC1E2216F@OwnerPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Jim, Nobody I think is denying what you are saying. The statement mere states that the seeds, origins of many of these changes, the forces that propelled them, came into being during the Romantic period -in my opinion, mostly through its visionary side. Ciao, Murat On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 3:04 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: > The nominating statement for Poems for the Millennium reads as follows: >> >> "Modernism rejected Romanticism in the way that one political leader >> rejects another-not because it is any different but because it wishes to win >> the same audience. This book demonstrates that the only thing that happened >> in Modernism was that a door opened onto still another aspect of the immense >> cultural experiment that Romanticism was-or as Rothenberg and Robinson might >> insist, as Romanticisms were (are). Central issues were what Rousseau called >> conscience de soi, self-awareness (but a self-awareness which deliberately >> did not separate itself from 'world'), a new interest in ethnicity and the >> local, and a shift from thinking of poetry as a 'craft' and of the poet as >> 'maker,' to thinking of it as a provoker of consciousness-even a creator of >> consciousness-and of the poet as Bard, Shaman. To know the work so >> carefully, lovingly and brilliantly assembled in this book is to know >> ourselves in a new and newly conscious way." >> > > Congrats on the award. > > That's a pretty odd above paragraph, though. Uh, a very romantic paragraph. > Like it was written by someone trying hard to pretend to be a thinker and > critic with some historical perspective. Modernism is a huge historical > period that spans from around 1910 to 1955 or so. Poetry changed quite a bit > in that time. Pound, Eliot, Stevens, Apollinaire, yada yada. Dada. Futurism, > The world went through two world wars. Technological change went through the > roof. Poetry developed as a written thing very dramatically during > modernism. The poetry of people like Pound, Eliot, and Stevens explores the > possibilities of writing and reading way beyond a document as 'score' simply > meant to be read aloud. The notion of 'voice' goes through huge changes. The > notions of juxtaposition, collage, and visuality enter poetry with great > strength. And so much more. > > ja > http://vispo.com > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:22:28 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Chirot Subject: from forthcoming "Bob Dylan in America:" Chapter Two--published in New Yorker--Dylan & the Beats-- MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable very good excerpt--(makes one want to read the entire book--which is quite something today with the glut of dylan tomes--) entire chapter--from this upcoming book, published in the new yorker-- great fotos, too!-- just recently many books have picked up have come across the same quotes (real or no) of dylan re his first reading of kerouac's Mexico City Blues (in 1959--) and immense effect Jean-Lous Lebris Kerouac had on him--as wel as his long involvements with Allen G--excellent background history on the various trains of influence out of the many forms of American Radicalism from the Wobblies on--and involvements of Kerouac and Ginsberg with these--and its differing from the Radicalism of the folk scene from which dylan first emerged-- (in the opening paragraphs--the effects on Kerouac and via him back to/foward from Copland score for Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men, directed by Lewis Milestone (great name, so so director--)--the conjunction of a popula= r culture film score out of Copland's forms of modernism--to showing up in chorus in mexico City Blues--to Desotlaion Row--to Ginsberg--very wel done and illuminating facts history along the way-- the discussion here (poetics list) re --barely at any rate--social & political and poetry--makes it al the more intersting to read this fine excerpt-- onwo/ards! david-bc *=93Bob Dylan in America,=94 by the historian Sean Wilentz , will be published in September by Doubleday. The following excerpt is Chapter 2 of the book.* *Penetrating Aether: The Beat Generation and Allen Ginsberg=92s America* by Sean Wilentz Read more http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2010/08/sean-wilentz-bob-dyl= an-in-america.html#ixzz0woewN1Kz =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:47:45 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Hilary Clark Subject: Re: One Writes Potatoe, Another Writes Pota[h]to In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Who are "we"? This reply illustrates precisely what I said in my last post. "Clark" Nick LoLordo wrote: > There was once(1) a subscriber named "Clark" > Who would simply not tolerate snark. > Her dudgeon rose high, til > She clicked on "reply"-- > Clark's remarks missed their mark. We LIKE snark! > > (1) until very recently > > ********** > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Hilary Clark wrote: > > >> Dear list, >> >> Snide attacks such as the limerick below are pathetic. Aren't all members >> on this list free to make comments of the sort George Bowering made? Or are >> some members more equal than others? >> >> I am unsubscribing from this list. >> >> Hilary Clark >> >> Stephen Baraban wrote: >> >> >>> One Writes Potatoe, Another Writes Pota{h}to >>> OR, The Argument Need not be Souring >>> >>> >>> There now is a list-mate named Bowering, >>> Who might think that the others are cowering; >>> Though the offense be slight, >>> If the usage ain't right, >>> He'll rim-shot a scorn that is towering. >>> >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >>> >>> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> > > > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 16:53:44 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: marc vincenz Subject: Re: Comments in Chinese In-Reply-To: <3b03e.fe16e19.399b0d31@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Plenty of Chinese SPAM novels out there. No seriously - I lived in Shanghai for over ten years. Some of the best fiction in China is web-based. In so far as censorship is concerned, I doubt that anything of serious merit could manage to navigate out of the Chinese government's spiderweb. That is, of course, unless you go through Hong Kong. Look at Google for Sun Tzu's sake. FYI, Wolf Totem was available online long before it got on to the bestsellers' list. On 16 August 2010 17:52, Ann Bogle wrote: > > I've been told that comments in Chinese to weblogs are "spam." I have > deleted a few of those comments. Then I realized that they may not be spam > but > may be legitimate comments. I have begun to translate 14 of them using > Babelfish. They seem to be wisdom sayings, such as this one: "The success > may > attract the friend, frustrates may test the friend." I'd like information > -- > if anyone has experience -- about issues in Chinese blogging, including > censorship. > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:50:45 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Chirot Subject: SLOVA #8 pdf--ongoing talk with/works by Chirot--some texts in English now on line-- MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable since so many are making announcements of their works appearing: here is one from d-bc: this is a very very great honor & happiness for me to appear in SLOVA as Russian art, poetry, writing, cinema,dance has had an immense impact on me as person and writer/artist since very young when at 12 i first stumbled on Mayakovsky-- Russian Visual Poetry & Sound Poetry esp have had a profound effect on/with me-- i Thank with all my heart Gleb Kolomiets for all his work with me and also especially for his friendship and ongoing conversations via the mails-- and my Thanks to al the editors at SLOVA-- and to Michael Jacobson for introducing me to Gleb-- (there wil be solo show of my works in Russia also--they already appeared i= n two traveleing group shows--one re Asemic works which Gleb did al the work on putting together, a prodigious task as dealing with red tape alone an exhausting endeavor in every way The Russian journal SOVA #8 is now available as a pdf-- also some texts are available in English at the web site beginning on page 7 is the continuation of ongoing conversation/interview b= y Gleb Kolomiets & David Baptiste Chirot throughout the issue there are great many works by Chirot if interested, i can repost the announcement for SLOVA 7 in which the Kolomiets-Chirot conversation began--this issue has also many works by Chirot throughout and also works by Edward Kulemin, a Russian Visual Poet whose works i greatly like and respect-- both he and Gleb Kolomiets are among the Visual Poets in a forthcoming Anthology from Openned.com which i was invited to edit/curate-- (they were invited long before i knew anything re SLOVA) i recently received the print edition of SLOVA #7--a very impressive, professional and beautiful publication-- covers in color and everything printed on very high quality paper--with excellent layouts in the Russian tradition Slova#8 - download free www.scribd.com =91Slova=92 (=91The words=92 =96 name in English) is non-commercial and non= -profit project. =91Slova=92 journal was established in 2007 to review radical and avant-garde tendencies in contemporary literature, ph... by slova_journal i= n Magazines/Newspapers, Philosophy, and poetry =91Slova=92 (=91The words=92 =96 name in English) is non-commercial and non= -profit project. =91Slova=92 journal was established in 2007 to review radical and avant-garde tendencies in contemporary literature, philosophy and art. In 2009 =91Slova=92 was registered in ISSN international centre. Artists, lite= rati an... some texts from SLOVA now available at the website slova.uuuq.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 22:29:27 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: michael farrell Subject: Re: MOSQUES, CHURCHES, APES, CESSPOOLS In-Reply-To: <305948.11125.qm@web52404.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable jared / alan i think i was probably unclear in several ways jared my post as a whole wasnt addressed to you ..yr post just set me off o= n a train (buggy=2C piece of wood sliding downhill my line about saying something not related to politics was not 'aimed' at t= his list or anyone on it .. but was a joke interview question that a journa= list might ask a politician just as a way of scrutinising their tone & seei= ng if they cd come up with a better one: a workshop question i used the word politics too reductively ..'politician' wdve been more acc= urate > Date: Wed=2C 18 Aug 2010 12:46:35 -0700 > From: poet_in_hell@YAHOO.COM > Subject: Re: MOSQUES=2C CHURCHES=2C APES=2C CESSPOOLS > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 > Jared=2C I hope you'll excuse my most recent (glib) sound/bite. I'm afrai= d I have no idea how to address the question of what may or may not be rele= vant in poetry or what could possibly be considered a "relevant poetry." I = was at a lose when I saw the post concerning the Renewel of Spirtitually in= contemporary poetics. Poetry=2C after all=2C is a thing of the spirit=2C y= es? So why must it be renewed? Of course=2C it would be nice if more poets = addressed the urgent concerns of the day rather than dwell exclusively on p= rivate matters. Yeats was very active in Irish politics. Ditto Pound (thoug= h not Irish issues ... & too bad he...)=2C Eliot ( too bad he=2C too...)=2C= and Lawrence ( my favorite writer/poet/period). The word Relevant frighten= s me. When I hear it=2C I quickly become a Beckett tramp -- I ask myself=2C= "Am I beginning to Mean Something." I'm simply not prepared for the burden= of even considering what is or isn't relevant in contemporary art & poetry= . > Consider: I'm presently listening to a beautiful Jeff Beck lick from the= late 70s. & it strikes me as prefectly relevant. Why? Because it's beautif= ul. & what makes it beautiful? Because Beck has mastered the tools of his t= rade and plays beautifully.=20 > =20 > Enjoyed your post. Take care -- > =20 > =20 >=20 > --- On Sat=2C 8/14/10=2C Jared Schickling wrote: >=20 >=20 > From: Jared Schickling > Subject: Re: MOSQUES=2C CHURCHES=2C APES=2C CESSPOOLS > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Saturday=2C August 14=2C 2010=2C 1:38 AM >=20 >=20 > Dear Steve=2C Alan=2C and whomever else=2C >=20 >=20 >=20 > your posts =96 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Taking Steve=92s idea of the present / nearing =93End=2C=94 and > everything that suggests=2C as a baseline proposition=97and less concerne= d with the > accuracy of a truth than a thinking sensibility=97much less any washed se= t of > theory that doesn=92t offer something we=92ve missed=97how is one to thin= k of a > relevant poetry? What would a relevant > poetry be? What is a relevant poetry? Affirmation and change and hope a= nd things > of that ilk don=92t seem to go anywhere=97as according to the proposition= they are > inaccurate. Yet one persists insisting=85 >=20 >=20 >=20 > A far-flung surrealism is acutely popular=2C and so would be > apparently perceived as somehow relevant.=20 > And yet so is a staunch eco poetic.=20 > Alan=92s post of xenophobia=2C corruption and broken glass alongside the > systematicity of Pantomime Ape of Free Will speaks=2C perhaps=2C to where= the two > cohabitate. Nature nurtured. =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > In the end=2C and without much argument=2C I=92m inclined to see > this as formal questions. CA Conrad=92s > recent brief =93review=94 at Futurepost is peculiar=2C even if I=92m quit= e possibly > overstating my case=2C but it has me wondering:=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =93The term =91Identity Politics=92 is bad enough. It=92s > meant to annihilate the efforts of those who literally bled for the room = they > made for us all. =91Identity Politics=92 makes a joke of it. It says > that all it ever was was wallowing in the filth and conspiracy of politic= s=2C a > game=2C it=92s all just been a game.=94 >=20 >=20 >=20 > While we do know politics would hardly change (have changed) > without politics. Part of the public > social artist=92s civil agenda is to force action=2C political. Using=2C= as with more faith in=2C artistic=2C > biologic means of a-political=2C corrosive substance. Any blood=2C here= =2C IS identity politics. Conrad=92s joke is perverse because=2C as I read= it=2C it can=92t achieve > itself=2C so that it does. It is literal > in its bleeding=2C sur-real and eco-logical=2C like a complete thought ab= out the > body. =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > And yet I don=92t think the passage=2C nor a review that =93wipes > me out=94 for that matter (=93evie=94=92s reply)=2C has intended this. I= t seems to bear the burden of its own > conviction. =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > (Here I should suggest the value of all this. Well=2C upon now thinking = about this which is > something I wasn=92t thinking about before=2C today I resisted not tossin= g some > recyclables. And I apologized to > someone for something. And cleaned up > the dog in the neighbor=92s yard. Etc=2C > coincidence perhaps. Which would be > such work to parcel out. Also against the > original proposition. Einstein=92s > definition of insanity.) >=20 >=20 >=20 > How is such a method=2C a process unintentional=2C defeated yet conjured= =2C > to be systemized=2C formalized=2C etc & et al discussed=2C articulated? = In a relevant way?=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Just a question.=20 > Available on or off list. =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 16:04:29 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: from forthcoming "Bob Dylan in America:" Chapter Two--published in New Yorker--Dylan & the Beats-- In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I grew up in MInnesota in the 1960's. I remember when a friend's older sist= er turned us on to Dylan--even though we didn't necessarily understand what= he was doing, we knew that what he was doing was very important and big. H= e still takes my breath away.=20 Mary --- On Wed, 8/18/10, David Chirot wrote: From: David Chirot Subject: from forthcoming "Bob Dylan in America:" Chapter Two--published in= New Yorker--Dylan & the Beats-- To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2010, 3:22 PM very good excerpt--(makes one want to read the entire book--which is quite something today with the glut of dylan tomes--) entire chapter--from this upcoming book, published in the new yorker-- great fotos, too!-- just recently many books have picked up have come across the same quotes (real or no) of dylan re his first reading of kerouac's Mexico City Blues (in 1959--) and immense effect Jean-Lous Lebris Kerouac had on him--as wel as his long involvements with Allen G--excellent=C2=A0 background history o= n the various trains of influence out of the many forms of American Radicalism from the Wobblies on--and involvements of Kerouac and Ginsberg with these--and its differing from the Radicalism of the folk scene from which dylan first emerged-- (in the opening paragraphs--the effects on Kerouac and via him back to/foward=C2=A0 from Copland score for Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men, directe= d by Lewis Milestone (great name, so so director--)--the conjunction of a popula= r culture film score out of Copland's forms of modernism--to showing up in chorus in mexico City Blues--to Desotlaion Row--to Ginsberg--very wel done and illuminating facts history along the way-- the discussion here (poetics list)=C2=A0 re --barely at any rate--social & political and poetry--makes it al the more intersting to read this fine excerpt-- onwo/ards! david-bc *=E2=80=9CBob Dylan in America,=E2=80=9D by the historian Sean Wilentz , will be published in September by Doubleday. The following excerpt is Chapter 2 of the book.* *Penetrating Aether: The Beat Generation and Allen Ginsberg=E2=80=99s Ameri= ca* by Sean Wilentz Read more http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2010/08/sean-wilentz-bob-dyl= an-in-america.html#ixzz0woewN1Kz =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:59:39 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Crane's Bill Books Subject: Re: One Writes Potatoe, Another Writes Pota[h]to MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's sad to see poets reduced to trading limericks. Shouldn't we at least be firing off supremely elegant and withering hendecasyllables? Jeffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Baraban" To: Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 12:43 PM Subject: One Writes Potatoe, Another Writes Pota[h]to > One Writes Potatoe, Another Writes Pota{h}to > OR, The Argument Need not be Souring > > > There now is a list-mate named Bowering, > Who might think that the others are cowering; > Though the offense be slight, > If the usage ain't right, > He'll rim-shot a scorn that is towering. > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 21:17:54 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: American Book Award for Poems for the Millennium In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think the world changed a great deal from Romanticism through Modernism, Murat. The nomination statement implies Modernism and Romanticism barely differ, if you read it. Because Romanticism preceded Modernism, of course the antecedants of the Modern era can usually be found in Romanticism or among the Victorians. But the nominating statement does not acknowlege the deep originality of the Modern era--an originality borne from unprecedented global turmoil, the rise of the middle class in both Europe and North America, unprecedented scientific and technological advance, and deep conviction in the power and value of language, art, and science despite the tragic conditions that prevailed through much of Modernism. Such as World War I, the Spanish Flu that followed (which killed millions world-wide), the great (global) depression of the thirties, and World War II. ja http://vispo.com > Jim, > > Nobody I think is denying what you are saying. The statement mere states > that the seeds, origins of many of these changes, the forces that > propelled > them, came into being during the Romantic period -in my opinion, mostly > through its visionary side. > > Ciao, > > Murat > > > On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 3:04 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: > >> The nominating statement for Poems for the Millennium reads as follows: >>> >>> "Modernism rejected Romanticism in the way that one political leader >>> rejects another-not because it is any different but because it wishes to >>> win >>> the same audience. This book demonstrates that the only thing that >>> happened >>> in Modernism was that a door opened onto still another aspect of the >>> immense >>> cultural experiment that Romanticism was-or as Rothenberg and Robinson >>> might >>> insist, as Romanticisms were (are). Central issues were what Rousseau >>> called >>> conscience de soi, self-awareness (but a self-awareness which >>> deliberately >>> did not separate itself from 'world'), a new interest in ethnicity and >>> the >>> local, and a shift from thinking of poetry as a 'craft' and of the poet >>> as >>> 'maker,' to thinking of it as a provoker of consciousness-even a creator >>> of >>> consciousness-and of the poet as Bard, Shaman. To know the work so >>> carefully, lovingly and brilliantly assembled in this book is to know >>> ourselves in a new and newly conscious way." ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 14:24:29 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Lisa Janssen Subject: MoonLit #4 is out and it is awesome. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Contributors include award winning poets Allyssa Wolf and Judith Goldman, a mystery collab between Bernadette Mayer and Jennifer Karmin, short stories by Amina Cain and Nick Collias, artwork by Neil Hagerty and Krista Franklin, and new work from Pamela Olson, John Beer, Roger Craik, Rebecca Bush, Robert Masterson, Ralph La Charity, Josh Sebrasky, Steve Roth, Vladimir Swirynsky, Suzanne Savakas, David Pavlich, Joel Craig, Lisa Janssen and Claire McMahon. Order copies from: http://www.dragcity.com/products/moonlit-4 Stores email: sales@dragcity for store pricing. Thanks fellow poets!! Lisa Janssen ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 16:16:22 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is "Symphony No. 2" by Ric Carfagna Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc , Wryting-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is "Symphony No. 2" by Ric Carfagna: =20 Description: =20 "Symphony No. 2" by Ric Carfagna (and a follow-up to his "Symphony No. 1") = is a work not to be construed as a symphony in a strictly classical sense, = as is the case with the symphonic forms of works by Mozart or Haydn, but mo= re along the lines of works by obtuse unwieldy 20th century composers such = as Norgard, Nystroem, Segerstam and Pettersson. It comprises not so much of= thematic elements as it does the repetition of images in differing context= s. It starts off with a burst of dissonance then settles down into a placid= , surreal, disjunctive utterance. It also attempts to conjure up the ghosts= of cubist poetry (a short lived and little known poetic phenomena) with Ca= rfagna=E2=80=99s own idiosyncratic spin on it. =20 Available as a free ebook here: =20 http://www.lulu.com/product/ebook/symphony-no-2/12297253 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 16:12:33 +0100 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Edwin Morgan In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Edwin Morgan has died, at the age of 90. http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/aug/19/edwin-morgan-scotland-national-poet It's difficult to know what to say. I was one of his students at Glasgow in the sixties, so my knowledge of him and his work goes back over forty years. A towering presence, whose stature increased in the course of years. Two endings of poems: 'From time the souvenirs are deeds.' --"From the Domain of Arnheim" ' -- Of course, but nothing is ever the same. now is it? You'll remember Mercury.' -- "The First Men on Mercury" Robin Hamilton ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 11:36:15 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mairead Byrne Subject: edwin morgan bright star MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 scots makar / translator / energizer / brightest star http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/aug/19/edwin-morgan-scotland-national-poet -- http://www.whatsleftofheaven.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 02:14:54 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: for tuli kupferberg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit there will be a tribute to tuli on his birthday sept 28th at the living theater 7pm onward free vent if you want more info back channeol dalachinsky a walk to the butcher’s @ sunset ( for tuli kupferberg) there are strange animals that appear between light & dark dug at glass spilled on to the street & overall the bit of dense crochet the patterns of square content / square in square shape of body in black thru the window of a bar square in square each pane intact / ready to be splintered here a milestone of visions exquisite rules of the gone broken as the corpse itself is divested of age finally (of) death sharp pains & grandly groomed the body no more than the thing itself a rug & once you wrapped around/inside it but oh how it looks & feels (as i feel) like you strands of hair & air tangled in quiet invisibility & you the thing itself & pardon me if i divest myself of all but the CARRY of what remains of the skelter in the cold cold flesh the step before one’s bones will gleam a bit inside yer crazy coat the pinks aghast @ what seems chilly but remarks the silken truthes there is still the color of your living scalp claps for all the stretching fold-weeselves inta candles & photographs of us always pro verbs vencano chura virgin I uh vencano chura VIRGIN la madria ah padria zynfoon dehla eeefahna dark foliage ah morn place a relic ‘neath the neither & the nether of where-you–go-from- here light skin light objects glaring white surfaces of dark tables of light system is the time when system was & wasn’t it - undisputed – borscht & ball of matzo meal by all standards the gold standard no longer what it is or was black gloves & overcast sky & the cliché of rain at the graveyard sunsets missed in a matter of minutes as one turns one’s head the other way dug of glass pirt the woooobster aanawrite here where’s amorphous chug-a-lug the chachoo smog the zone sources actually reflected & sunsets too no longer valid til another sunset’s come & gone & you yer gone – but the big jive’s GIVE even that’s collapsed since no one’s there no longer to deflate it’s AllNess SALAAAAAAAAAM & lick ‘em clean & break da breath be ver(y) age-wise as you are a-skin at the next stop was the cleaver clean whaaahood toward the FIN-ish & as you leave us here to box with the empty fools i have only one small thing to ask were the butchers like a team of surgeons or the surgeons more like THEM? vencano chura virgin I uh vencano chura VIRGIN la madria ah padria zynfoon dehla eeefahna dark foliage ah morn dalachinsky nyc 7/10 On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 12:56:19 -0700 Nick LoLordo writes: > There was once(1) a subscriber named "Clark" > Who would simply not tolerate snark. > Her dudgeon rose high, til > She clicked on "reply"-- > Clark's remarks missed their mark. We LIKE snark! > > (1) until very recently > > ********** > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Hilary Clark > wrote: > > > Dear list, > > > > Snide attacks such as the limerick below are pathetic. Aren't all > members > > on this list free to make comments of the sort George Bowering > made? Or are > > some members more equal than others? > > > > I am unsubscribing from this list. > > > > Hilary Clark > > > > Stephen Baraban wrote: > > > >> One Writes Potatoe, Another Writes Pota{h}to > >> OR, The Argument Need not be Souring > >> > >> > >> There now is a list-mate named Bowering, > >> Who might think that the others are cowering; > >> Though the offense be slight, > >> If the usage ain't right, > >> He'll rim-shot a scorn that is towering. > >> > >> > >> ================================== > >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >> > >> > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > -- > V. Nicholas LoLordo > (702) 595-1108 > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 16:10:34 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jared Schickling Subject: Re: MOSQUES, CHURCHES, APES, CESSPOOLS In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stephen B. I=92d suggest that something identifiable as =93love=2C=94 passionate love=2C is not possible without an= ger=2C hatred=2C well-placed hatred. Knowing hell to know heaven. That=92s a buddhist principle. I would prefer Blake. And I=92ll bet the inimitable George Bow= ering can take it just fine. I=92ll bet he knows his use of the term =93mediocrities=94 holds water. =20 =20 Steve R. There=92s no need for me to excuse your remark though I appreciate your concern. Thank = you.=20 The truth is holistically there=92s dog in the yard to be cleaned up=97the value of such fiction=92s framing is that we begin=2C perhaps=2C to see Chi= na=92s Guiyu not just from or as or relatable to America but it. Which is to say=2C the= re in your mirror=2C mine=2C it. =20 =20 Michael F. I can empathize with not wanting to squirm.=20 If we can agree that it=92s just peachy for the wonders (such a popular word today) of poems and poet trees to go on sprouting the wonders of bubbl= es as larger actual worlds=2C literally=2C die =85we do know what species of b= ear whale tuna tiger gorilla dog lake weed culture insect ice cap etc etc etc will be gone in the lifetimes of anyone around in another 40 years=2C right? =85 an= d role WE=92ve played=2C right =85 and if we=92re willing to call every purposeful= artist and critic hell bent on evolution=2C as opposed to stagnation=2C a =93politicia= n=94 =85 then yes=2C politics is something crass to art.=20 I=92ve also attended the poetry workshop.=20 =20 I should probably substantiate that some of the above actually exists but this doesn=92t seem the appropriate forum. Plus who am= I to judge lol. =20 =20 Steve R=2C the word =93relevant=94 is indeed uncertainly frightening. ED= =92s idea about coming at it from the angle =96 that to somehow get to it one skirts the issue=2C writes and reads arou= nd it =96 =93it=94 specifically loose here =96 connotation (vast=2C inclusive words) = versus denotation (unending=2C drooling words).=20 And I appreciate your honesty=2C =93I=92m simply not prepared for the burde= n of even considering what is or isn=92t relevant=85=94 My friend C once pok= ed and prodded his old Navy buddy to run naked with him through Joshua Tree.=20 Poked and prodded for days and then=2C =93C=2C I=92m just not psychological= ly prepared.=94 That undeniability promptly ended the prodding.=20 =20 I also couldn=92t disagree more about beauty depending on mastering tools. Or=2C more precisely=2C that it depends on something vocational.=20 You have a point but when I hear this I hear stifling specializations. =93Learn the scales=2C then forget them.=94 The dog in the yard is beautiful because of what it is=97the fact of the dog plus that which I = hadn=92t seen in it [sic] before. In fact beauty and wonder would seem to depend more fully on realizing error =96 the admis= sion of duncery. But I think part of the trouble here would be agreeing on how we=92re using the term =93beautiful.= =94 I=92d suggest there=92s two kinds of beauty (and probably more) =96 and sticking to guitar players =96 on the one hand=2C of= the sort John McLaughlin produced in Miles Davis=92s basement that drove all those c= ritics nuts =96 in short=2C there is beauty somehow in loss / thwarting of expecta= tion=2C the re-discovery of something thought understood (in this case=2C =93music= =94). I don=92t know how to define that beauty other than as that=2C which is of course in line with the definition. The other = is based upon all kinds of factors that lead one to just like blue=2C where one brings to materials and artifa= cts and performances his and her expectations and expects them to be fulfilled albeit in novel ways=2C nonetheless the fulfilling of expectation=2C antici= pation=2C etc. As if memory were involved. Not =93what=94 you get=2C as the =93what= =94 is prefab=2C but =93how=94 you get there. A diverting beauty. The blues-model=2C you might say. =20 =20 And=2C to end on the correct note=97I have enjoyed your post=2C and all of them. Jared = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 10:58:05 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: OT -- LATEST POEMS @ POETS FOR LIVING WATERS Comments: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" , Discussion of Women's Poetry List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WE CAR= Poets for Living Waters -- http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/=0A=0AWE CAR= E ABOUT THE SMALL PEOPLE BY JULES BOYKOFF=0ATHREE POEMS BY DAVID WOLACH=0AT= WO POEMS BY JASON QUACKENBUSH=0APOEM FOR NANA BY JUNE JORDAN=0ATOLLBOOTH BY= SARAH GREEN & LEORA FRIDMAN=0ATWO POEMS BY MICHAEL HETTICH=0ATHREE POEMS B= Y DERRICK AUSTIN=0AEXCERPT FROM THE BOTTOM BY BETSY ANDREWS=0AHUSTLE AND BL= OW BY BRETT EVANS=0AEARTH POEMS AND OIL SPILLS BY ALBERT B. CASUGA=0AREALLY= PRETTY IMMATURE IF YOU THINK BY MIKE YOUNG=0ATWO POEMS BY SANDY TSENG=0AAG= AIN AND AGAIN I MARRY THE EARTH BY AMIR HUSSAIN=0ATWO POEMS BY ELLEN WISE= =0ATWO POEMS BY PAMELA VILLARS=0ATHREE POEMS BY WENDY BROWN-B=C3=81EZ=0ATHE= RE IS NO WAY BACK BY PATRICIA MONAGHAN=0ATWO POEMS BY DONNA PECORE=0ATHREE = POEMS BY RICK REIBSTEIN=0ATWO POEMS BY SAMPSON STARKWEATHER=0ATWO POEMS BY = ANNIE FINCH=0AWHEN THE ANSWER IS NO BY GWYN MCVAY=0ATWO POEMS BY ELIZABETH = KATE SWITAJ=0AOIL ODE BY GARY BARWIN=0AWHEN IT RAINS, IT SNOWS BY NATHAN LO= GAN=0ATHREE POEMS BY GREG FUCHS=0ACONSIDERING OPTIONS FOR CONTROLLING THE B= P BLOWOUT IN THE GULF OF MEXICO BY =0AKRISTIN PREVALLET=0AWHAT IS YOUR PERS= ONAL CONNECTION TO THE OCEAN? BY MARY KRANE DERR=0ATHREE POEMS BY ILONA MAR= TONFI=0AFROM GREEN THERAPEUTICS THIS WHALE BY HELLER LEVINSON=0ATWO POEMS B= Y MYL SCHULZ=0ABEYOND PETROLEUM BY ANA BO=C5=BDI=C4=8CEVI=C4=86=0ATHE BIRDS= BY E. TRACY GRINNELL=0ATWO POEMS + VIDEO [MOURNING AND WITNESSING WALK FOR= THE GULF COAST] BY =0ACAROLYN ZAIKO=0ABP PT: A TOXIC TRYST BY NICKY TISO= =0AWRECKONING BY AMANDA PARKER=0ATWO POEMS BY SARAH GREEN=0ATWO POEMS BY NA= OMI LOWINSKY=0AHONORING WORLD OCEAN DAY=E2=80=93DUBLIN, IRELAND ACTION=0ATH= REE POEMS BY DEBORAH MEADOWS=0ATHREE POEMS BY RICHARD JEFFREY NEWMAN=0AA KI= ND OF SOLUTION BY DAN CHELOTTI=0AGEOMETRY BY BARBARA STRASKO=0ATHREE POEMS = BY RICHARD OYAMA=0AWATER OFF A DUCK=E2=80=99S BY ERIN VIRGIL=0ATHREE POEMS = BY SHELLY TAYLOR=0ATWO POEMS BY LESLIE MCGRATH=0ATWO POEMS BY TREY MOORE=0A= THREE POEMS BY ARISA WHITE=0ACOAST FUNERAL BY ABE LOUISE YOUNG=0ASOME LIVES= OF WATER BY DAN FEATHERSTON=0ATHREE POEMS BY TRINA BURKE=0AAN ESSAY BY DAN= A GUTHRIE MARTIN=0ACRAW-DADDY BY REBECCA ANNE RENNER=0AMOMMY, CAN I HAVE TH= E BP OIL SPILL FOR XMAS? BY K. SILEM MOHAMMAD=0APROSTRATE BY BRIGITTE GOETZ= E=0ACOMPLAINT BY DANIEL LIN=0ATWO POEMS BY VIVEK SHARMA=0AJUNE 4=E2=80=94TH= E DOW CLOSES DOWN 9931 BY SUSAN BRIANTE=0AA SURVIVOR STATE BY JOHN LAMBREMO= NT, SR.=0ATWO POEMS BY GREG SANTOS=0ACLEMENS AND ANNA BY LOUIS E. BOURGEOIS= =0ATHE GULF OF I STATEMENTS: WATER EXPERIMENT #1 BY JILL MAGI=0AWE LIVE IN = A PERMANENT STATE OF CLEAN UP BY JOSHUA SCHUSTER=0ALETTER FOR UP NORTH ASSO= CIATES BY BRIAN BOYLES=0ATHREE POEMS BY REBECCA FOUST / ART BY LORNA STEVEN= S=0ALEAKING OIL WELL AS LUNCHTIME ENTERTAINMENT AT MY HUSBAND=E2=80=99S HI-= TECH COMPANY BY =0APENELOPE SCHOTT=0AREQUIEM FOR A CEO BY JENNE ANDREWS=0AP= RESS RELEASE: 10 JUNE 2010 BY JULIE L. MOORE=0ATHREE POEMS BY KAMAU RUCKER= =0ATWO POEMS BY STACY G. ERICSON=0ADEMOLISH A SMALL GROVE BY REBECCA KINZIE= BASTIAN=0ATHREE POEMS BY CURTIS JENSEN=0ATWO POEMS BY SHAUN O=E2=80=99REIL= LY=0ATHREE POEMS BY JAMES BRUSH=0AFOUR POEMS BY CARLA MARTIN-WOOD=0ATHREE P= OEMS BY AMY DRYANSKY=0ADEEPWATER BY SAEED JONES=0ATHREE POEMS BY MATTHEW GA= VIN FRANK=0ATWO POEMS BY LOUIE CREW=0ATWO POEMS BY JASON CRANE=0ATHREE POEM= S BY MIKE ESPANA-MCGEEHON=0AI AM A NATURAL WONDER BY ANNE CECELIA HOLMES & = LILY LADEWIG=0AWITHOUT REPRESENTATION BY RITA BANERJEE=0AA CENTO OF THE GAR= BAGE PATCH BY BRAD RICHARD=0ATHREE POEMS BY MACKENZIE CARIGNAN=0ATO CORPORA= TE HEADQUARTERS=E2=80=A6A MEMO BY MARA BUCK=0AMOURNING BY KIRSTEN OGDEN=0AT= HE SEA GODDESS TELLS HIS STORY BY CHRISTINE SWINT=0ATWO POEMS BY TIMOTHY PI= LGRIM=0ATWO POEMS BY MARIE-ELIZABETH MALI=0AFROM THE UNFINISHED BY MARK DUC= HARME=0ASUMMER VACATION BY SUSAN BROWNE=0AA POETRY ACTION BY MATTHEW FALK= =0ALETTER #1, TO THE CONSCIENCE EMBODIED BY RICHARD HAMILTON=0AJULY POEM BY= KATHLEEN OSSIP=0ATWO POEMS BY MICHAEL ROTHENBERG=0ABURNING WATER BY MINNIE= -BRUCE PRATT=0ADOLPHIN ISLAND BY RANDY BATES=0AMY LOUISIANA LOVE BY ANNE BA= RNGROVER=0A=0A=0APoets for Living Waters -- http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress= .com/=0ALatest article in Poets and Writers, "Poets Act on Oil Spill" -- = =0Ahttp://www.pw.org/content/poets_act_on_oil_spill=0A =0A********=0ANow Th= at's WAC=0A+ http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html=0A=0AA= my's Alias=0A+ http://amyking.org/ =0A********=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 02:51:08 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: American Book Award for Poems for the Millennium In-Reply-To: <4F0A3BC69FB8407A9C9934E12F35A567@OwnerPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Jim, the answer depend to which aspect of the Romantic movement you are looking at. German Romanticism and accompanying philosophies and poetries (and also Blake in the English side) have as much to do with the Modern World as anything else. The difference is that that aspect has resulted in a more jaundiced view of progress than your view of the unadulterated glories of modernism. Look at Hegel and Benjamin, or Hegel and Marx, or Nietzsche and Wagner and Nazism. One can not have one without the other. The 20th Century has also one of the most atrocious, blood thirsty periods in human history, its great scientific and intellectual achievements (and I will not deny those achievements are real) making these blood thirty impulses more efficient. I am aware that I am extending the definition of Romanticism back to the end of 18th century and moving it away from a English focus; but the Millennium anthology is doing the same thing. Anyhow, one should not forget, the Industrial Revolution is one of the creators of Romanicism or that Romanticism in the States took the shape of Transcendentalism (with deep connections to German and Eastern ideas), Thoreau, Melvillle, Hawthorne and Dickinson -in many ways, quintessential modern figures. Romanticism is not merely Wordsworth's late pablum poetry; but of his Preludes, as radical a poem as ever has been one; of Blake, of Keats's Odes, etc. Ciao, Murat On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 12:17 AM, Jim Andrews wrote: > I think the world changed a great deal from Romanticism through Modernism, > Murat. The nomination statement implies Modernism and Romanticism barely > differ, if you read it. Because Romanticism preceded Modernism, of course > the antecedants of the Modern era can usually be found in Romanticism or > among the Victorians. But the nominating statement does not acknowlege the > deep originality of the Modern era--an originality borne from unprecedented > global turmoil, the rise of the middle class in both Europe and North > America, unprecedented scientific and technological advance, and deep > conviction in the power and value of language, art, and science despite the > tragic conditions that prevailed through much of Modernism. Such as World > War I, the Spanish Flu that followed (which killed millions world-wide), the > great (global) depression of the thirties, and World War II. > > ja > http://vispo.com > > > > Jim, >> >> Nobody I think is denying what you are saying. The statement mere states >> that the seeds, origins of many of these changes, the forces that >> propelled >> them, came into being during the Romantic period -in my opinion, mostly >> through its visionary side. >> >> Ciao, >> >> Murat >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 3:04 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: >> >> The nominating statement for Poems for the Millennium reads as follows: >>> >>>> >>>> "Modernism rejected Romanticism in the way that one political leader >>>> rejects another-not because it is any different but because it wishes to >>>> win >>>> the same audience. This book demonstrates that the only thing that >>>> happened >>>> in Modernism was that a door opened onto still another aspect of the >>>> immense >>>> cultural experiment that Romanticism was-or as Rothenberg and Robinson >>>> might >>>> insist, as Romanticisms were (are). Central issues were what Rousseau >>>> called >>>> conscience de soi, self-awareness (but a self-awareness which >>>> deliberately >>>> did not separate itself from 'world'), a new interest in ethnicity and >>>> the >>>> local, and a shift from thinking of poetry as a 'craft' and of the poet >>>> as >>>> 'maker,' to thinking of it as a provoker of consciousness-even a creator >>>> of >>>> consciousness-and of the poet as Bard, Shaman. To know the work so >>>> carefully, lovingly and brilliantly assembled in this book is to know >>>> ourselves in a new and newly conscious way." >>>> >>> > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 08:18:06 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Chirot Subject: re Ground Zero tolerance/intolerance: Tahar Djouat &Abdellatif Laabi-- Demolitions, dispossession, displacement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In the immense loudness of the immense hate & lies surrounding one non-stop in the US media-- --loudness, repetition & the Big Lie all going together as Hitler remarked-= - i find myself listening --though Jack Spicer (to whom one is of course paradoxically listening)--says "no one listens to poetry anymore"- i find myself listening to two poets, Tahar Djaout & Abdellatif Laabi, the first who lived, wrote, risked & died, the second who writes, risks and was imprisoned-- as voices, poetry, very much of these times--for their guidance, example-- poets in the US one often finds saying that they are "taking risks in their writing"-- is it "risks" that one takes when this is the approved mode? are there not other risks one might be called--or forced-- to take, if taking seriously and listening seriously to the immense lies & hate inundating the "communications" environment-- I have wondered, thought about, studied available information, for a long time if decades of the US support, funding and arming of events such as described in the two articles received from Jewish Peace News linked below-- have not steadily eroded a resistance to such events, actions, attitudes occurring within the USA. Denying and supporting at the same tim= e such actions and attitudes, has this not created an atmosphere in which since 9/11 what is now crystallized by the hysteria over the Mosque/Cultura= l Center at Ground Zero --whipped up for politcal expedience without thinking of where, to what terrible things this may only too tragically lead to--is allowed to grow in strength, in irrationality, in a hatred which can spiral out of control? (from the first of the two articles linked to below, re Ground Zero "Ramadan Kareem from the Netanyahu and Obama Administrations" http://www.icahd.org/?p=3D5994 by Jeff Halper of the Israeli Committee Against Home Demolitions: : Now some 1,500 Muslim graves have been cleared in several nighttime operations to make way for=85..a $100 million Museum of Tolerance and Human Dignity, a project of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles. (Ironically, Rabbi Marvin Hier, the Wiesenthal Center=92s Director, appeare= d on Fox News to express his opposition to the construction of a mosque near Ground Zero in Manhattan, because the site of the 9/11 attack =93is a cemetery.=94) Already so many of the policies the USA uses itself and supports abroad regarding torture, detention, rendition, security, surveillance, secrecy, ethnic cleansing, the super cession & ignoring of both US and International law are being turned inward, to be used within the USA on "illegal aliens," on protesters, activists, the Muslim community, and the enormous backward turn in the treatment of American Indians, that the boundaries have been crossed as to what is considered as Human Rights. communication rather than assassination. Genocide & slavery are not that far distant in American history that their hideous legacies, continuing to smolder, are only all to easily encouraged and allowed to "come back to life" in all manner of deadly forms and expressions. Turning blind eyes to what is supported abroad, erodes & dims the perceptions of what happens "at home." In fact, the support & encouragemen= t of such actions, attitudes, makes them all the more readily able to spring into action "here." Hidden in plain site,sight, cite things which have bee= n ever more accomodated, rendered perfectly acceptable for many, are not really noticed at all until the edge is reached, or that situation where it is "too late." The history of the 20th century is one in which just such events occurred, in which groups of persons were singled out and made to bear the horror of the full brunt of hatred, intolerance, genocide. The McCarthy years, as often noted in the French and British news groups and journals' writing of the "new McCarthyism" in the USA of the last few decades, have already returned, as well as the horrific period of the Palme= r Raids, out of which emerged the FBI. The ease with which such transformations may occur, "even in democractic countries," is brilliantly presented in *The Last Summer of Reason*, by the Algerian Moghrebi poet, journalist and novelist Tahar Djaou= t (1954-93). Leaving for work one fine morning, Djaout was dragged from his and gunned down in front of his house by extremists. Already in this country, during the Primaries in various states, Tea Party & other agitators, extremists, were advocating attacking elected Representives in front of their homes. Djaout famously wrote: .Silence is death. / If you are silent you are dead, / And if you speak you are dead, / So speak and die. The great Morrocan poet Abdellatif Laabi, himself imprisoned 8 years in his country before exile in France, writes in *The World's Embrace Selected Poems* (City Lights, 2003,in French & English: translations by Anne George, Edris Makward, Victor Reinking & Pierre Joris):* * *I risk speaking of my darkness I am wrapped in darkness and do not beg for deliverance I will live inside this chaos furnish it like a cell make a bed with the straw of my books* and: *Tell me what you see Are they burning books in public squares Are they shaving women's heads before stoning them Are there processions of hooded men waving crosses and scimitars Why are you silent, my beloved Are we on a floating island or drifting on a torpedo Are we alone or chained to other brothers of misfortune* Abdellatif Laabi in "The Earth Opens and Welcomes You," a poem dedicated to Tahar Djaout, written but not published until ten years later, sings: *Sleep well my friend Sleep the sleep of the just Get some rest, even from your dreams let us for awhile carry the burden* Jack Spicer wrote that "No one listens to poetry;" one might ask oneself if by this Spicer is not saying that no one *hears* poetry, but that even in hearing, reading, "no one is listening"-- In times like these, with the examples of such poets as Tahar Djaout & Abdellatif Laabi, to truly LISTEN to poetry that "risk(s) speaking of (my) darkness" is of the utmost importance, a matter risking indeed silence, lif= e and death-- for, if one listens, are not "we" facing these same questions, may one not be called to take such risks as not being truly listened to, perhaps even t= o the point of life & death for so many around one-- "*Are we on a floating island or drifting on a torpedo Are we alone or chained to other brothers of misfortune"* Jewish Peace News: With the tacit agreement of the US administration, Netanyahu has recently okayed increased home demolitions throughout the West Bank, followed by the destruction of an entire village in the Negev. Demolitions, dispossession and displacement by Israel continue both beyond and within the "green line.= " The first report and analysis below "Ramadan Kareem from the Netanyahu and Obama Administrations" http://www.icahd.org/?p=3D5994 is authored by Jeff Halper of the Israeli Committee Against Home Demolitions; the second (This article originally appeared on the Ynet news portal on August 9th, 2010:) http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3930888,00.html - translated by Dena Shunra [http://hebrew.shunra.net/] is by Haia Noah, an researcher and activist with the Negev Civil Equality and Coexistence Forum. Rela Mazali Jewish Peace News editors: Joel Beinin Racheli Gai Rela Mazali Sarah Anne Minkin Judith Norman Lincoln Z. Shlensky Rebecca Vilkomerson Alistair Welchman ------------ Jewish Peace News archive and blog: http://jewishpeacenews.blogspot.com ------------ Jewish Peace News sends its news clippings only to subscribers. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or manage your subscription, go to http://www.jewishpeacenews.net =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 14:55:19 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: OT -- LATEST POEMS @ POETS FOR LIVING WATERS In-Reply-To: <47312.35290.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-2" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable it's very moving that you're doing this, Amy--I know its debatable whether political poetry changes anything & that is a huge subject--am reading Mark Scroggins' wonderful bio of Zukofsky now & that comes up in his life often--but it's necessary for those who rea this to know that the poetry community is at least thinking about what is happening to our planet. On 8/20/10 1:58 PM, "amy king" wrote: > WE CAR > Poets for Living Waters -- http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/ >=20 > WE CARE ABOUT THE SMALL PEOPLE BY JULES BOYKOFF > THREE POEMS BY DAVID WOLACH > TWO POEMS BY JASON QUACKENBUSH > POEM FOR NANA BY JUNE JORDAN > TOLLBOOTH BY SARAH GREEN & LEORA FRIDMAN > TWO POEMS BY MICHAEL HETTICH > THREE POEMS BY DERRICK AUSTIN > EXCERPT FROM THE BOTTOM BY BETSY ANDREWS > HUSTLE AND BLOW BY BRETT EVANS > EARTH POEMS AND OIL SPILLS BY ALBERT B. CASUGA > REALLY PRETTY IMMATURE IF YOU THINK BY MIKE YOUNG > TWO POEMS BY SANDY TSENG > AGAIN AND AGAIN I MARRY THE EARTH BY AMIR HUSSAIN > TWO POEMS BY ELLEN WISE > TWO POEMS BY PAMELA VILLARS > THREE POEMS BY WENDY BROWN-B=C1EZ > THERE IS NO WAY BACK BY PATRICIA MONAGHAN > TWO POEMS BY DONNA PECORE > THREE POEMS BY RICK REIBSTEIN > TWO POEMS BY SAMPSON STARKWEATHER > TWO POEMS BY ANNIE FINCH > WHEN THE ANSWER IS NO BY GWYN MCVAY > TWO POEMS BY ELIZABETH KATE SWITAJ > OIL ODE BY GARY BARWIN > WHEN IT RAINS, IT SNOWS BY NATHAN LOGAN > THREE POEMS BY GREG FUCHS > CONSIDERING OPTIONS FOR CONTROLLING THE BP BLOWOUT IN THE GULF OF MEXICO = BY > KRISTIN PREVALLET > WHAT IS YOUR PERSONAL CONNECTION TO THE OCEAN? BY MARY KRANE DERR > THREE POEMS BY ILONA MARTONFI > FROM GREEN THERAPEUTICS THIS WHALE BY HELLER LEVINSON > TWO POEMS BY MYL SCHULZ > BEYOND PETROLEUM BY ANA BO=AEI=C8EVI=C6 > THE BIRDS BY E. TRACY GRINNELL > TWO POEMS + VIDEO [MOURNING AND WITNESSING WALK FOR THE GULF COAST] BY > CAROLYN ZAIKO > BP PT: A TOXIC TRYST BY NICKY TISO > WRECKONING BY AMANDA PARKER > TWO POEMS BY SARAH GREEN > TWO POEMS BY NAOMI LOWINSKY > HONORING WORLD OCEAN DAY-DUBLIN, IRELAND ACTION > THREE POEMS BY DEBORAH MEADOWS > THREE POEMS BY RICHARD JEFFREY NEWMAN > A KIND OF SOLUTION BY DAN CHELOTTI > GEOMETRY BY BARBARA STRASKO > THREE POEMS BY RICHARD OYAMA > WATER OFF A DUCK'S BY ERIN VIRGIL > THREE POEMS BY SHELLY TAYLOR > TWO POEMS BY LESLIE MCGRATH > TWO POEMS BY TREY MOORE > THREE POEMS BY ARISA WHITE > COAST FUNERAL BY ABE LOUISE YOUNG > SOME LIVES OF WATER BY DAN FEATHERSTON > THREE POEMS BY TRINA BURKE > AN ESSAY BY DANA GUTHRIE MARTIN > CRAW-DADDY BY REBECCA ANNE RENNER > MOMMY, CAN I HAVE THE BP OIL SPILL FOR XMAS? BY K. SILEM MOHAMMAD > PROSTRATE BY BRIGITTE GOETZE > COMPLAINT BY DANIEL LIN > TWO POEMS BY VIVEK SHARMA > JUNE 4--THE DOW CLOSES DOWN 9931 BY SUSAN BRIANTE > A SURVIVOR STATE BY JOHN LAMBREMONT, SR. > TWO POEMS BY GREG SANTOS > CLEMENS AND ANNA BY LOUIS E. BOURGEOIS > THE GULF OF I STATEMENTS: WATER EXPERIMENT #1 BY JILL MAGI > WE LIVE IN A PERMANENT STATE OF CLEAN UP BY JOSHUA SCHUSTER > LETTER FOR UP NORTH ASSOCIATES BY BRIAN BOYLES > THREE POEMS BY REBECCA FOUST / ART BY LORNA STEVENS > LEAKING OIL WELL AS LUNCHTIME ENTERTAINMENT AT MY HUSBAND'S HI-TECH COMPA= NY BY > PENELOPE SCHOTT > REQUIEM FOR A CEO BY JENNE ANDREWS > PRESS RELEASE: 10 JUNE 2010 BY JULIE L. MOORE > THREE POEMS BY KAMAU RUCKER > TWO POEMS BY STACY G. ERICSON > DEMOLISH A SMALL GROVE BY REBECCA KINZIE BASTIAN > THREE POEMS BY CURTIS JENSEN > TWO POEMS BY SHAUN O'REILLY > THREE POEMS BY JAMES BRUSH > FOUR POEMS BY CARLA MARTIN-WOOD > THREE POEMS BY AMY DRYANSKY > DEEPWATER BY SAEED JONES > THREE POEMS BY MATTHEW GAVIN FRANK > TWO POEMS BY LOUIE CREW > TWO POEMS BY JASON CRANE > THREE POEMS BY MIKE ESPANA-MCGEEHON > I AM A NATURAL WONDER BY ANNE CECELIA HOLMES & LILY LADEWIG > WITHOUT REPRESENTATION BY RITA BANERJEE > A CENTO OF THE GARBAGE PATCH BY BRAD RICHARD > THREE POEMS BY MACKENZIE CARIGNAN > TO CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS...A MEMO BY MARA BUCK > MOURNING BY KIRSTEN OGDEN > THE SEA GODDESS TELLS HIS STORY BY CHRISTINE SWINT > TWO POEMS BY TIMOTHY PILGRIM > TWO POEMS BY MARIE-ELIZABETH MALI > FROM THE UNFINISHED BY MARK DUCHARME > SUMMER VACATION BY SUSAN BROWNE > A POETRY ACTION BY MATTHEW FALK > LETTER #1, TO THE CONSCIENCE EMBODIED BY RICHARD HAMILTON > JULY POEM BY KATHLEEN OSSIP > TWO POEMS BY MICHAEL ROTHENBERG > BURNING WATER BY MINNIE-BRUCE PRATT > DOLPHIN ISLAND BY RANDY BATES > MY LOUISIANA LOVE BY ANNE BARNGROVER >=20 >=20 > Poets for Living Waters -- http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/ > Latest article in Poets and Writers, "Poets Act on Oil Spill" -- > http://www.pw.org/content/poets_act_on_oil_spill > =20 > ******** > Now That's WAC > + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html >=20 > Amy's Alias > + http://amyking.org/ > ******** >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 12:07:48 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "Along with  justice, dignity=". Rest of header flushed. From: steve russell Subject: Re: re Ground Zero tolerance/intolerance: Tahar Djouat &Abdellatif Laabi-- Demolitions, dispossession, displacement In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tolerance finally ends up in a musuem.=0AAlong with =C2=A0justice, dignity= =C2=A0& all of those other big abstractions people used =0Ato believe in. = =0A=0AWhat a world ...=0A=0APowerful poems from Tahar Djouat &Abdellatif La= abi.=0AGlad to learn 2 new names. =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__________________________= ______=0AFrom: David Chirot =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV= .BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Fri, August 20, 2010 11:18:06 AM=0ASubject: re Ground = Zero tolerance/intolerance: Tahar Djouat &Abdellatif Laabi-- =0ADemolitions= , dispossession, displacement=0A=0AIn the immense loudness of the immense h= ate & lies surrounding one non-stop=0Ain the US media--=0A--loudness, repet= ition & the Big Lie all going together as Hitler remarked--=0Ai find myself= listening --though Jack Spicer (to whom one is of course=0Aparadoxically l= istening)--says "no one listens to poetry anymore"-=0Ai find myself listeni= ng to two poets, Tahar Djaout & Abdellatif Laabi, the=0Afirst who lived, wr= ote, risked & died, the second who writes, risks and was=0Aimprisoned--=0Aa= s voices, poetry, very much of these times--for their guidance, example--= =0Apoets in the US one often finds saying that they are "taking risks in th= eir=0Awriting"--=0Ais it "risks" that one takes when this is the approved m= ode?=0Aare there not other risks one might=C2=A0 be called--or forced-- to = take, if=0Ataking seriously and listening seriously to the immense lies & h= ate=0Ainundating the "communications" environment--=0A=0A=0AI have wondered= , thought about, studied available information,=C2=A0 for a long=0Atime if = decades of the US support, funding and arming of events such as=0Adescribed= in the two articles received from Jewish Peace News linked=0Abelow--=C2=A0= have not steadily eroded a resistance to such events, actions,=0Aattitudes= occurring within the USA.=C2=A0 Denying and supporting at the same time=0A= such actions and attitudes, has this not created an atmosphere in which=0As= ince 9/11 what is now crystallized by the hysteria over the Mosque/Cultural= =0ACenter at Ground Zero --whipped up for politcal expedience without think= ing=0Aof where, to what terrible things this may only too tragically lead t= o--is=0Aallowed to grow in strength, in irrationality, in a hatred which ca= n spiral=0Aout of control?=0A=0A(from the first of the two articles linked = to below, re Ground Zero=0A"Ramadan Kareem from the Netanyahu and Obama Adm= inistrations"=0Ahttp://www.icahd.org/?p=3D5994=0A=C2=A0 by Jeff Halper of t= he Israeli Committee Against Home Demolitions:=0A:=0ANow some 1,500 Muslim = graves have been cleared in several nighttime=0Aoperations to make way for= =E2=80=A6..a $100 million Museum of Tolerance and Human=0ADignity, a projec= t of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles.=0A(Ironically, Rabbi Marvi= n Hier, the Wiesenthal Center=E2=80=99s Director, appeared=0Aon Fox News to= express his opposition to the construction of a mosque near=0AGround Zero = in Manhattan, because the site of the 9/11 attack =E2=80=9Cis a=0Acemetery.= =E2=80=9D)=0A=0A=0A=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Already so many of the policies the= USA uses itself and supports=0Aabroad regarding torture, detention, rendit= ion, security, surveillance,=0Asecrecy, ethnic cleansing, the super cession= & ignoring of both US and=0AInternational law are being turned inward, to = be used within the USA on=0A"illegal aliens," on protesters, activists, the= Muslim community, and the=0Aenormous backward turn in the treatment of Ame= rican Indians, that the=0Aboundaries have been crossed as to what is consid= ered as Human Rights.=0Acommunication rather than assassination.=C2=A0 Geno= cide & slavery are not that=0Afar distant in American history that their hi= deous legacies, continuing to=0Asmolder, are only all to easily encouraged = and allowed to "come back to=0Alife" in all manner of deadly forms and expr= essions.=0A=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Turning blind eyes to what is supported abroad, er= odes & dims the=0Aperceptions of what happens "at home."=C2=A0 In fact, the= support & encouragement=0Aof such actions, attitudes, makes them all the m= ore readily able to spring=0Ainto action "here."=C2=A0 Hidden in plain site= ,sight, cite things which have been=0Aever more accomodated, rendered perfe= ctly acceptable for many, are not=0Areally noticed at all until the edge is= reached, or that situation where it=0Ais "too late."=C2=A0 The history of = the 20th century is one in which just such=0Aevents occurred, in which grou= ps of persons were singled out and made to=0Abear the horror of the full br= unt of hatred, intolerance, genocide. The=0AMcCarthy years, as often noted = in the French and British news groups and=0Ajournals' writing of the "new M= cCarthyism" in the USA of the last few=0Adecades, have already returned, as= well as the horrific period of the Palmer=0ARaids, out of which emerged th= e FBI.=0A=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The ease with which such transformatio= ns may occur, "even in=0Ademocractic countries," is brilliantly presented i= n *The Last Summer of=0AReason*, by the Algerian Moghrebi poet, journalist = and novelist Tahar Djaout=0A(1954-93).=C2=A0 Leaving for work one fine morn= ing, Djaout was dragged from his=0Aand gunned down in front of his house by= extremists. Already in this=0Acountry, during the Primaries in various sta= tes, Tea Party & other=0Aagitators, extremists, were advocating attacking e= lected Representives in=0Afront of their homes.=0A=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 Djaout famously wrote:=0A=0A=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 .Silence is death. / I= f you are silent you are dead, / And if you=0Aspeak you are dead, / So spea= k and die.=0A=0AThe great Morrocan poet Abdellatif Laabi, himself imprisone= d 8 years in his=0Acountry before exile in France,=C2=A0 writes in *The Wor= ld's Embrace=C2=A0 Selected=0APoems*=0A(City Lights, 2003,in French & Engli= sh: translations by Anne George, Edris=0AMakward, Victor Reinking & Pierre = Joris):*=0A=0A*=0A*I risk speaking of my darkness=0AI am wrapped in darknes= s=0Aand do not beg for deliverance=0AI will live inside this chaos=0Afurnis= h it like a cell=0Amake a bed with the straw of my books*=0A=0Aand:=0A=0A*T= ell me what you see=0AAre they burning books in public squares=0AAre they s= having women's heads before stoning them=0AAre there processions of hooded = men=0Awaving crosses and scimitars=0AWhy are you silent, my beloved=0AAre w= e on a floating island=0Aor drifting on a torpedo=0AAre we alone=0Aor chain= ed to other brothers of misfortune*=0A=0AAbdellatif Laabi in "The Earth Ope= ns and Welcomes You," a poem dedicated to=0ATahar Djaout, written but not p= ublished until ten years later, sings:=0A=0A*Sleep well my friend=0ASleep t= he sleep of the just=0AGet some rest, even from your dreams=0Alet us for aw= hile carry the burden*=0A=0AJack Spicer wrote that "No one listens to poetr= y;" one might ask oneself if=0Aby this Spicer is not saying that no one *he= ars* poetry, but that even in=0Ahearing, reading, "no one is listening"--= =0A=0AIn times like these, with the examples of such poets as Tahar Djaout = &=0AAbdellatif Laabi, to truly LISTEN to poetry that "risk(s) speaking of (= my)=0Adarkness" is of the utmost importance, a matter risking indeed silenc= e, life=0Aand death--=0A=0Afor, if one listens, are not "we" facing these s= ame questions, may one not=0Abe called to take such risks as not being trul= y listened to, perhaps even to=0Athe point of life & death for so many arou= nd one--=0A=0A"*Are we on a floating island=0Aor drifting on a torpedo=0AAr= e we alone=0Aor chained to other brothers of misfortune"*=0A=0A=0A=0AJewish= Peace News:=0A=0AWith the tacit agreement of the US administration, Netany= ahu has recently=0Aokayed increased home demolitions throughout the West Ba= nk, followed by the=0Adestruction of an entire village in the Negev. Demoli= tions, dispossession=0Aand displacement by Israel continue both beyond and = within the "green line."=0A=0AThe first report and analysis below "Ramadan = Kareem from the Netanyahu and=0AObama Administrations"=0A=0Ahttp://www.icah= d.org/?p=3D5994 =0A=0Ais authored by Jef= f Halper of the Israeli Committee Against Home=0ADemolitions; the second=0A= =0A(This article originally appeared on the Ynet news portal on August 9th,= =0A2010:) http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3930888,00.html=0A=0A- tr= anslated by Dena Shunra [http://hebrew.shunra.net/]=0A=0Ais by Haia Noah, a= n researcher and activist with the Negev Civil Equality=0Aand Coexistence F= orum.=0A=0ARela Mazali=0A=0A=0A=0AJewish Peace News editors:=0AJoel Beinin= =0ARacheli Gai=0ARela Mazali=0ASarah Anne Minkin=0AJudith Norman=0ALincoln = Z. Shlensky=0ARebecca Vilkomerson=0AAlistair Welchman=0A------------=0AJewi= sh Peace News archive and blog: http://jewishpeacenews.blogspot.com=0A-----= -------=0AJewish Peace News sends its news clippings only to subscribers. T= o=0Asubscribe, unsubscribe, or manage your subscription, go to=0Ahttp://www= .jewishpeacenews.net=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List i= s moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & =0Asub/unsub in= fo: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 16:31:12 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Re: OT -- LATEST POEMS @ POETS FOR LIVING WATERS In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Ruth. Yes, some question the "validity" and/or the "point," as if t= he =0Ahint of "clear" or purpose is something to sneer at and/or mock. Bul= ly for =0Athose who waste their time with such efforts. May they feel supe= rior in their =0Ainsular, mousey might! I should connect them all so that = they can high five =0Aeach other... but I don't have time. Only time to sa= y, glad you're enjoying the =0Asite and some of its offerings, Ruth - and y= our note of support is very much =0Aappreciated!=0A=0ABest,=0A=0AAmy=0A=0A = =0A********=0ANow That's WAC=0A+ http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/= amy-king.html=0A=0AAmy's Alias=0A+ http://amyking.org/ =0A********=0A=0A=0A= =0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Ruth Lepson = =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Fri, August 20, 2010 2:55:19 PM= =0ASubject: Re: OT -- LATEST POEMS @ POETS FOR LIVING WATERS=0A=0Ait's very= moving that you're doing this, Amy--I know its debatable whether=0Apolitic= al poetry changes anything & that is a huge subject--am reading Mark=0AScro= ggins' wonderful bio of Zukofsky now & that comes up in his life=0Aoften--b= ut it's necessary for those who rea this to know that the poetry=0Acommunit= y is at least thinking about what is happening to our planet.=0A=0A=0AOn 8/= 20/10 1:58 PM, "amy king" wrote:=0A=0A> WE CAR=0A> P= oets for Living Waters -- http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/=0A> =0A> WE = CARE ABOUT THE SMALL PEOPLE BY JULES BOYKOFF=0A> THREE POEMS BY DAVID WOLAC= H=0A> TWO POEMS BY JASON QUACKENBUSH=0A> POEM FOR NANA BY JUNE JORDAN=0A> T= OLLBOOTH BY SARAH GREEN & LEORA FRIDMAN=0A> TWO POEMS BY MICHAEL HETTICH=0A= > THREE POEMS BY DERRICK AUSTIN=0A> EXCERPT FROM THE BOTTOM BY BETSY ANDREW= S=0A> HUSTLE AND BLOW BY BRETT EVANS=0A> EARTH POEMS AND OIL SPILLS BY ALBE= RT B. CASUGA=0A> REALLY PRETTY IMMATURE IF YOU THINK BY MIKE YOUNG=0A> TWO = POEMS BY SANDY TSENG=0A> AGAIN AND AGAIN I MARRY THE EARTH BY AMIR HUSSAIN= =0A> TWO POEMS BY ELLEN WISE=0A> TWO POEMS BY PAMELA VILLARS=0A> THREE POEM= S BY WENDY BROWN-B=C3=81EZ=0A> THERE IS NO WAY BACK BY PATRICIA MONAGHAN=0A= > TWO POEMS BY DONNA PECORE=0A> THREE POEMS BY RICK REIBSTEIN=0A> TWO POEMS= BY SAMPSON STARKWEATHER=0A> TWO POEMS BY ANNIE FINCH=0A> WHEN THE ANSWER I= S NO BY GWYN MCVAY=0A> TWO POEMS BY ELIZABETH KATE SWITAJ=0A> OIL ODE BY GA= RY BARWIN=0A> WHEN IT RAINS, IT SNOWS BY NATHAN LOGAN=0A> THREE POEMS BY GR= EG FUCHS=0A> CONSIDERING OPTIONS FOR CONTROLLING THE BP BLOWOUT IN THE GULF= OF MEXICO BY=0A> KRISTIN PREVALLET=0A> WHAT IS YOUR PERSONAL CONNECTION TO= THE OCEAN? BY MARY KRANE DERR=0A> THREE POEMS BY ILONA MARTONFI=0A> FROM G= REEN THERAPEUTICS THIS WHALE BY HELLER LEVINSON=0A> TWO POEMS BY MYL SCHULZ= =0A> BEYOND PETROLEUM BY ANA BO=C5=BDI=C4=8CEVI=C4=86=0A> THE BIRDS BY E. T= RACY GRINNELL=0A> TWO POEMS + VIDEO [MOURNING AND WITNESSING WALK FOR THE G= ULF COAST] BY=0A> CAROLYN ZAIKO=0A> BP PT: A TOXIC TRYST BY NICKY TISO=0A> = WRECKONING BY AMANDA PARKER=0A> TWO POEMS BY SARAH GREEN=0A> TWO POEMS BY N= AOMI LOWINSKY=0A> HONORING WORLD OCEAN DAY-DUBLIN, IRELAND ACTION=0A> THREE= POEMS BY DEBORAH MEADOWS=0A> THREE POEMS BY RICHARD JEFFREY NEWMAN=0A> A K= IND OF SOLUTION BY DAN CHELOTTI=0A> GEOMETRY BY BARBARA STRASKO=0A> THREE P= OEMS BY RICHARD OYAMA=0A> WATER OFF A DUCK'S BY ERIN VIRGIL=0A> THREE POEMS= BY SHELLY TAYLOR=0A> TWO POEMS BY LESLIE MCGRATH=0A> TWO POEMS BY TREY MOO= RE=0A> THREE POEMS BY ARISA WHITE=0A> COAST FUNERAL BY ABE LOUISE YOUNG=0A>= SOME LIVES OF WATER BY DAN FEATHERSTON=0A> THREE POEMS BY TRINA BURKE=0A> = AN ESSAY BY DANA GUTHRIE MARTIN=0A> CRAW-DADDY BY REBECCA ANNE RENNER=0A> M= OMMY, CAN I HAVE THE BP OIL SPILL FOR XMAS? BY K. SILEM MOHAMMAD=0A> PROSTR= ATE BY BRIGITTE GOETZE=0A> COMPLAINT BY DANIEL LIN=0A> TWO POEMS BY VIVEK S= HARMA=0A> JUNE 4--THE DOW CLOSES DOWN 9931 BY SUSAN BRIANTE=0A> A SURVIVOR = STATE BY JOHN LAMBREMONT, SR.=0A> TWO POEMS BY GREG SANTOS=0A> CLEMENS AND = ANNA BY LOUIS E. BOURGEOIS=0A> THE GULF OF I STATEMENTS: WATER EXPERIMENT #= 1 BY JILL MAGI=0A> WE LIVE IN A PERMANENT STATE OF CLEAN UP BY JOSHUA SCHUS= TER=0A> LETTER FOR UP NORTH ASSOCIATES BY BRIAN BOYLES=0A> THREE POEMS BY R= EBECCA FOUST / ART BY LORNA STEVENS=0A> LEAKING OIL WELL AS LUNCHTIME ENTER= TAINMENT AT MY HUSBAND'S HI-TECH COMPANY BY=0A> PENELOPE SCHOTT=0A> REQUIEM= FOR A CEO BY JENNE ANDREWS=0A> PRESS RELEASE: 10 JUNE 2010 BY JULIE L. MOO= RE=0A> THREE POEMS BY KAMAU RUCKER=0A> TWO POEMS BY STACY G. ERICSON=0A> DE= MOLISH A SMALL GROVE BY REBECCA KINZIE BASTIAN=0A> THREE POEMS BY CURTIS JE= NSEN=0A> TWO POEMS BY SHAUN O'REILLY=0A> THREE POEMS BY JAMES BRUSH=0A> FOU= R POEMS BY CARLA MARTIN-WOOD=0A> THREE POEMS BY AMY DRYANSKY=0A> DEEPWATER = BY SAEED JONES=0A> THREE POEMS BY MATTHEW GAVIN FRANK=0A> TWO POEMS BY LOUI= E CREW=0A> TWO POEMS BY JASON CRANE=0A> THREE POEMS BY MIKE ESPANA-MCGEEHON= =0A> I AM A NATURAL WONDER BY ANNE CECELIA HOLMES & LILY LADEWIG=0A> WITHOU= T REPRESENTATION BY RITA BANERJEE=0A> A CENTO OF THE GARBAGE PATCH BY BRAD = RICHARD=0A> THREE POEMS BY MACKENZIE CARIGNAN=0A> TO CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS= ...A MEMO BY MARA BUCK=0A> MOURNING BY KIRSTEN OGDEN=0A> THE SEA GODDESS TE= LLS HIS STORY BY CHRISTINE SWINT=0A> TWO POEMS BY TIMOTHY PILGRIM=0A> TWO P= OEMS BY MARIE-ELIZABETH MALI=0A> FROM THE UNFINISHED BY MARK DUCHARME=0A> S= UMMER VACATION BY SUSAN BROWNE=0A> A POETRY ACTION BY MATTHEW FALK=0A> LETT= ER #1, TO THE CONSCIENCE EMBODIED BY RICHARD HAMILTON=0A> JULY POEM BY KATH= LEEN OSSIP=0A> TWO POEMS BY MICHAEL ROTHENBERG=0A> BURNING WATER BY MINNIE-= BRUCE PRATT=0A> DOLPHIN ISLAND BY RANDY BATES=0A> MY LOUISIANA LOVE BY ANNE= BARNGROVER=0A> =0A> =0A> Poets for Living Waters -- http://poetsgulfcoast.= wordpress.com/=0A> Latest article in Poets and Writers, "Poets Act on Oil S= pill" --=0A> http://www.pw.org/content/poets_act_on_oil_spill=0A> =0A> ***= *****=0A> Now That's WAC=0A> + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/am= y-king.html=0A> =0A> Amy's Alias=0A> + http://amyking.org/=0A> ********=0A>= =0A> =0A> =0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 20:15:30 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: OT -- LATEST POEMS @ POETS FOR LIVING WATERS In-Reply-To: <591642.62627.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-2" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable thanks for writing, Amy, exactly on point--I am thinking how to incorporate global warming & other issues--poor Pakistan, for ex, beyond all imagination--into my poetry without being didcatic--and the ecopoetry panel at the rethinking poetics conf in June was stimulating--thought it was goin= g to be up on UTube but haven't seen it--does anyone know. keep on, ruth On 8/20/10 7:31 PM, "amy king" wrote: > Thanks, Ruth. Yes, some question the "validity" and/or the "point," as if= the > hint of "clear" or purpose is something to sneer at and/or mock. Bully f= or > those who waste their time with such efforts. May they feel superior in = their > insular, mousey might! I should connect them all so that they can high f= ive > each other... but I don't have time. Only time to say, glad you're enjoy= ing > the=20 > site and some of its offerings, Ruth - and your note of support is very m= uch > appreciated! >=20 > Best, >=20 > Amy >=20 > =20 > ******** > Now That's WAC > + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html >=20 > Amy's Alias > + http://amyking.org/ > ******** >=20 >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Ruth Lepson > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Fri, August 20, 2010 2:55:19 PM > Subject: Re: OT -- LATEST POEMS @ POETS FOR LIVING WATERS >=20 > it's very moving that you're doing this, Amy--I know its debatable whethe= r > political poetry changes anything & that is a huge subject--am reading Ma= rk > Scroggins' wonderful bio of Zukofsky now & that comes up in his life > often--but it's necessary for those who rea this to know that the poetry > community is at least thinking about what is happening to our planet. >=20 >=20 > On 8/20/10 1:58 PM, "amy king" wrote: >=20 >> WE CAR >> Poets for Living Waters -- http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/ >>=20 >> WE CARE ABOUT THE SMALL PEOPLE BY JULES BOYKOFF >> THREE POEMS BY DAVID WOLACH >> TWO POEMS BY JASON QUACKENBUSH >> POEM FOR NANA BY JUNE JORDAN >> TOLLBOOTH BY SARAH GREEN & LEORA FRIDMAN >> TWO POEMS BY MICHAEL HETTICH >> THREE POEMS BY DERRICK AUSTIN >> EXCERPT FROM THE BOTTOM BY BETSY ANDREWS >> HUSTLE AND BLOW BY BRETT EVANS >> EARTH POEMS AND OIL SPILLS BY ALBERT B. CASUGA >> REALLY PRETTY IMMATURE IF YOU THINK BY MIKE YOUNG >> TWO POEMS BY SANDY TSENG >> AGAIN AND AGAIN I MARRY THE EARTH BY AMIR HUSSAIN >> TWO POEMS BY ELLEN WISE >> TWO POEMS BY PAMELA VILLARS >> THREE POEMS BY WENDY BROWN-B=C1EZ >> THERE IS NO WAY BACK BY PATRICIA MONAGHAN >> TWO POEMS BY DONNA PECORE >> THREE POEMS BY RICK REIBSTEIN >> TWO POEMS BY SAMPSON STARKWEATHER >> TWO POEMS BY ANNIE FINCH >> WHEN THE ANSWER IS NO BY GWYN MCVAY >> TWO POEMS BY ELIZABETH KATE SWITAJ >> OIL ODE BY GARY BARWIN >> WHEN IT RAINS, IT SNOWS BY NATHAN LOGAN >> THREE POEMS BY GREG FUCHS >> CONSIDERING OPTIONS FOR CONTROLLING THE BP BLOWOUT IN THE GULF OF MEXICO= BY >> KRISTIN PREVALLET >> WHAT IS YOUR PERSONAL CONNECTION TO THE OCEAN? BY MARY KRANE DERR >> THREE POEMS BY ILONA MARTONFI >> FROM GREEN THERAPEUTICS THIS WHALE BY HELLER LEVINSON >> TWO POEMS BY MYL SCHULZ >> BEYOND PETROLEUM BY ANA BO=AEI=C8EVI=C6 >> THE BIRDS BY E. TRACY GRINNELL >> TWO POEMS + VIDEO [MOURNING AND WITNESSING WALK FOR THE GULF COAST] BY >> CAROLYN ZAIKO >> BP PT: A TOXIC TRYST BY NICKY TISO >> WRECKONING BY AMANDA PARKER >> TWO POEMS BY SARAH GREEN >> TWO POEMS BY NAOMI LOWINSKY >> HONORING WORLD OCEAN DAY-DUBLIN, IRELAND ACTION >> THREE POEMS BY DEBORAH MEADOWS >> THREE POEMS BY RICHARD JEFFREY NEWMAN >> A KIND OF SOLUTION BY DAN CHELOTTI >> GEOMETRY BY BARBARA STRASKO >> THREE POEMS BY RICHARD OYAMA >> WATER OFF A DUCK'S BY ERIN VIRGIL >> THREE POEMS BY SHELLY TAYLOR >> TWO POEMS BY LESLIE MCGRATH >> TWO POEMS BY TREY MOORE >> THREE POEMS BY ARISA WHITE >> COAST FUNERAL BY ABE LOUISE YOUNG >> SOME LIVES OF WATER BY DAN FEATHERSTON >> THREE POEMS BY TRINA BURKE >> AN ESSAY BY DANA GUTHRIE MARTIN >> CRAW-DADDY BY REBECCA ANNE RENNER >> MOMMY, CAN I HAVE THE BP OIL SPILL FOR XMAS? BY K. SILEM MOHAMMAD >> PROSTRATE BY BRIGITTE GOETZE >> COMPLAINT BY DANIEL LIN >> TWO POEMS BY VIVEK SHARMA >> JUNE 4--THE DOW CLOSES DOWN 9931 BY SUSAN BRIANTE >> A SURVIVOR STATE BY JOHN LAMBREMONT, SR. >> TWO POEMS BY GREG SANTOS >> CLEMENS AND ANNA BY LOUIS E. BOURGEOIS >> THE GULF OF I STATEMENTS: WATER EXPERIMENT #1 BY JILL MAGI >> WE LIVE IN A PERMANENT STATE OF CLEAN UP BY JOSHUA SCHUSTER >> LETTER FOR UP NORTH ASSOCIATES BY BRIAN BOYLES >> THREE POEMS BY REBECCA FOUST / ART BY LORNA STEVENS >> LEAKING OIL WELL AS LUNCHTIME ENTERTAINMENT AT MY HUSBAND'S HI-TECH COMP= ANY >> BY >> PENELOPE SCHOTT >> REQUIEM FOR A CEO BY JENNE ANDREWS >> PRESS RELEASE: 10 JUNE 2010 BY JULIE L. MOORE >> THREE POEMS BY KAMAU RUCKER >> TWO POEMS BY STACY G. ERICSON >> DEMOLISH A SMALL GROVE BY REBECCA KINZIE BASTIAN >> THREE POEMS BY CURTIS JENSEN >> TWO POEMS BY SHAUN O'REILLY >> THREE POEMS BY JAMES BRUSH >> FOUR POEMS BY CARLA MARTIN-WOOD >> THREE POEMS BY AMY DRYANSKY >> DEEPWATER BY SAEED JONES >> THREE POEMS BY MATTHEW GAVIN FRANK >> TWO POEMS BY LOUIE CREW >> TWO POEMS BY JASON CRANE >> THREE POEMS BY MIKE ESPANA-MCGEEHON >> I AM A NATURAL WONDER BY ANNE CECELIA HOLMES & LILY LADEWIG >> WITHOUT REPRESENTATION BY RITA BANERJEE >> A CENTO OF THE GARBAGE PATCH BY BRAD RICHARD >> THREE POEMS BY MACKENZIE CARIGNAN >> TO CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS...A MEMO BY MARA BUCK >> MOURNING BY KIRSTEN OGDEN >> THE SEA GODDESS TELLS HIS STORY BY CHRISTINE SWINT >> TWO POEMS BY TIMOTHY PILGRIM >> TWO POEMS BY MARIE-ELIZABETH MALI >> FROM THE UNFINISHED BY MARK DUCHARME >> SUMMER VACATION BY SUSAN BROWNE >> A POETRY ACTION BY MATTHEW FALK >> LETTER #1, TO THE CONSCIENCE EMBODIED BY RICHARD HAMILTON >> JULY POEM BY KATHLEEN OSSIP >> TWO POEMS BY MICHAEL ROTHENBERG >> BURNING WATER BY MINNIE-BRUCE PRATT >> DOLPHIN ISLAND BY RANDY BATES >> MY LOUISIANA LOVE BY ANNE BARNGROVER >>=20 >>=20 >> Poets for Living Waters -- http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/ >> Latest article in Poets and Writers, "Poets Act on Oil Spill" -- >> http://www.pw.org/content/poets_act_on_oil_spill >> =20 >> ******** >> Now That's WAC >> + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html >>=20 >> Amy's Alias >> + http://amyking.org/ >> ******** >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 20:16:28 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: re Ground Zero tolerance/intolerance: Tahar Djouat &Abdellatif Laabi-- Demolitions, dispossession, displacement In-Reply-To: <561200.16868.qm@web52401.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I appreciate knowing of them, too, and thank you for your largehearted post= . On 8/20/10 3:07 PM, "steve russell" wrote: > Tolerance finally ends up in a musuem. > Along with =A0justice, dignity=A0& all of those other big abstractions people= used > to believe in.=20 >=20 > What a world ... >=20 > Powerful poems from Tahar Djouat &Abdellatif Laabi. > Glad to learn 2 new names. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ________________________________ > From: David Chirot > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Fri, August 20, 2010 11:18:06 AM > Subject: re Ground Zero tolerance/intolerance: Tahar Djouat &Abdellatif > Laabi--=20 > Demolitions, dispossession, displacement >=20 > In the immense loudness of the immense hate & lies surrounding one non-st= op > in the US media-- > --loudness, repetition & the Big Lie all going together as Hitler remarke= d-- > i find myself listening --though Jack Spicer (to whom one is of course > paradoxically listening)--says "no one listens to poetry anymore"- > i find myself listening to two poets, Tahar Djaout & Abdellatif Laabi, th= e > first who lived, wrote, risked & died, the second who writes, risks and w= as > imprisoned-- > as voices, poetry, very much of these times--for their guidance, example-= - > poets in the US one often finds saying that they are "taking risks in the= ir > writing"-- > is it "risks" that one takes when this is the approved mode? > are there not other risks one might=A0 be called--or forced-- to take, if > taking seriously and listening seriously to the immense lies & hate > inundating the "communications" environment-- >=20 >=20 > I have wondered, thought about, studied available information,=A0 for a lon= g > time if decades of the US support, funding and arming of events such as > described in the two articles received from Jewish Peace News linked > below--=A0 have not steadily eroded a resistance to such events, actions, > attitudes occurring within the USA.=A0 Denying and supporting at the same t= ime > such actions and attitudes, has this not created an atmosphere in which > since 9/11 what is now crystallized by the hysteria over the Mosque/Cultu= ral > Center at Ground Zero --whipped up for politcal expedience without thinki= ng > of where, to what terrible things this may only too tragically lead to--i= s > allowed to grow in strength, in irrationality, in a hatred which can spir= al > out of control? >=20 > (from the first of the two articles linked to below, re Ground Zero > "Ramadan Kareem from the Netanyahu and Obama Administrations" > http://www.icahd.org/?p=3D5994 > =A0 by Jeff Halper of the Israeli Committee Against Home Demolitions: > : > Now some 1,500 Muslim graves have been cleared in several nighttime > operations to make way for=8A..a $100 million Museum of Tolerance and Human > Dignity, a project of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles. > (Ironically, Rabbi Marvin Hier, the Wiesenthal Center=B9s Director, appeare= d > on Fox News to express his opposition to the construction of a mosque nea= r > Ground Zero in Manhattan, because the site of the 9/11 attack =B3is a > cemetery.=B2) >=20 >=20 > =A0 =A0 =A0 Already so many of the policies the USA uses itself and supports > abroad regarding torture, detention, rendition, security, surveillance, > secrecy, ethnic cleansing, the super cession & ignoring of both US and > International law are being turned inward, to be used within the USA on > "illegal aliens," on protesters, activists, the Muslim community, and the > enormous backward turn in the treatment of American Indians, that the > boundaries have been crossed as to what is considered as Human Rights. > communication rather than assassination.=A0 Genocide & slavery are not that > far distant in American history that their hideous legacies, continuing t= o > smolder, are only all to easily encouraged and allowed to "come back to > life" in all manner of deadly forms and expressions. > =A0 =A0 Turning blind eyes to what is supported abroad, erodes & dims the > perceptions of what happens "at home."=A0 In fact, the support & encouragem= ent > of such actions, attitudes, makes them all the more readily able to sprin= g > into action "here."=A0 Hidden in plain site,sight, cite things which have b= een > ever more accomodated, rendered perfectly acceptable for many, are not > really noticed at all until the edge is reached, or that situation where = it > is "too late."=A0 The history of the 20th century is one in which just such > events occurred, in which groups of persons were singled out and made to > bear the horror of the full brunt of hatred, intolerance, genocide. The > McCarthy years, as often noted in the French and British news groups and > journals' writing of the "new McCarthyism" in the USA of the last few > decades, have already returned, as well as the horrific period of the Pal= mer > Raids, out of which emerged the FBI. > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 The ease with which such transformations may occur, "even in > democractic countries," is brilliantly presented in *The Last Summer of > Reason*, by the Algerian Moghrebi poet, journalist and novelist Tahar Dja= out > (1954-93).=A0 Leaving for work one fine morning, Djaout was dragged from hi= s > and gunned down in front of his house by extremists. Already in this > country, during the Primaries in various states, Tea Party & other > agitators, extremists, were advocating attacking elected Representives in > front of their homes. > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Djaout famously wrote: >=20 > =A0 =A0 =A0 .Silence is death. / If you are silent you are dead, / And if you > speak you are dead, / So speak and die. >=20 > The great Morrocan poet Abdellatif Laabi, himself imprisoned 8 years in h= is > country before exile in France,=A0 writes in *The World's Embrace=A0 Selected > Poems* > (City Lights, 2003,in French & English: translations by Anne George, Edri= s > Makward, Victor Reinking & Pierre Joris):* >=20 > * > *I risk speaking of my darkness > I am wrapped in darkness > and do not beg for deliverance > I will live inside this chaos > furnish it like a cell > make a bed with the straw of my books* >=20 > and: >=20 > *Tell me what you see > Are they burning books in public squares > Are they shaving women's heads before stoning them > Are there processions of hooded men > waving crosses and scimitars > Why are you silent, my beloved > Are we on a floating island > or drifting on a torpedo > Are we alone > or chained to other brothers of misfortune* >=20 > Abdellatif Laabi in "The Earth Opens and Welcomes You," a poem dedicated = to > Tahar Djaout, written but not published until ten years later, sings: >=20 > *Sleep well my friend > Sleep the sleep of the just > Get some rest, even from your dreams > let us for awhile carry the burden* >=20 > Jack Spicer wrote that "No one listens to poetry;" one might ask oneself = if > by this Spicer is not saying that no one *hears* poetry, but that even in > hearing, reading, "no one is listening"-- >=20 > In times like these, with the examples of such poets as Tahar Djaout & > Abdellatif Laabi, to truly LISTEN to poetry that "risk(s) speaking of (my= ) > darkness" is of the utmost importance, a matter risking indeed silence, l= ife > and death-- >=20 > for, if one listens, are not "we" facing these same questions, may one no= t > be called to take such risks as not being truly listened to, perhaps even= to > the point of life & death for so many around one-- >=20 > "*Are we on a floating island > or drifting on a torpedo > Are we alone > or chained to other brothers of misfortune"* >=20 >=20 >=20 > Jewish Peace News: >=20 > With the tacit agreement of the US administration, Netanyahu has recently > okayed increased home demolitions throughout the West Bank, followed by t= he > destruction of an entire village in the Negev. Demolitions, dispossession > and displacement by Israel continue both beyond and within the "green lin= e." >=20 > The first report and analysis below "Ramadan Kareem from the Netanyahu an= d > Obama Administrations" >=20 > http://www.icahd.org/?p=3D5994 >=20 > is authored by Jeff Halper of the Israeli Committee Against Home > Demolitions; the second >=20 > (This article originally appeared on the Ynet news portal on August 9th, > 2010:) http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3930888,00.html >=20 > - translated by Dena Shunra [http://hebrew.shunra.net/] >=20 > is by Haia Noah, an researcher and activist with the Negev Civil Equality > and Coexistence Forum. >=20 > Rela Mazali >=20 >=20 >=20 > Jewish Peace News editors: > Joel Beinin > Racheli Gai > Rela Mazali > Sarah Anne Minkin > Judith Norman > Lincoln Z. Shlensky > Rebecca Vilkomerson > Alistair Welchman > ------------ > Jewish Peace News archive and blog: http://jewishpeacenews.blogspot.com > ------------ > Jewish Peace News sends its news clippings only to subscribers. To > subscribe, unsubscribe, or manage your subscription, go to > http://www.jewishpeacenews.net >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 21:00:26 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Douglas Manson Subject: poetry and pedagogy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Everyone Does anyone know how I can cheaply obtain a copy of Retallack and Spahr's Poetry and Pedagogy: The Challenge of the Contemporary, a book published a few years ago? the book is ridiculously expensive to buy new and my two main sources of books, the Brooklyn Public and CUNY libraries do not own this book. I am embarrassingly, shamefully poor and disastrously in need of a new pedagogy and poetics. I am hoping that this book will renew my energies, teaching experiences and my bank account, after I am hired for excitingly new poetry teaching gigs inspired by this book. I tremendously love adverbs. Do you? Please backchannel if you know how I can get this book on the cheap. Free, even. Your pal, Douglas Manson ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 23:17:06 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jared Schickling Subject: Re: re Ground Zero tolerance/intolerance: Tahar Djouat &Abdellatif Laabi-- > Demolitions, dispossession, displacement In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable David=2C You know=2C I'm reading this after reading my Grace Paley and I don't agree= how no one hears anything anymore=2C but I've heard what you mean=2C and I= won't name names=2C but they're out there. I found one across town back h= ome. He had a laughable living situation. Another=2C and they were friend= s=2C one to break your heart. And they weren't always that way. I wouldn'= t limit what risk means. =20 Families The sheep families are out in the meadow Caddy and her two big lambs Gruff and Veronica Veronica raises her curly head then bends to the grass Usefully she shits green grass and wool is her work Gruff is going away he will become something else Father of generations? What? more likely meat that=20 is a male in war on pasture his work is meat=20 Grace Paley Semezdin Mehmedinovic=2C who lived and printed through the shelling: "That's Europe [or fill in the blank]=2C a sign of weakness: endless self-a= ffirmation=2C the end of the world. Shells killing kids. Imaginations tur= ned 180 degrees=2C gone wild=2C emptied of memory. This is probably sheer = esoterica: I think about how their blocked consciousness is not a reaction = to the images of war=2C but nature preparing them for long years of battle.= What kind of curriculum will be put in place for kids ripped apart by shr= apnel as sharp as razors? Imagine a teacher assigning 'Snail House' or 'Th= e Enchanted Saddle.' It's easier to think of war as their only school. An= d there are plenty of shells=2C they're so devastating that only the Schwar= tzeneggers have a chance to survive--at least acording to post-modern theor= ists--left to themselves=2C wandering naked through the global desert and t= he infosphere=2C new nomads freed from feudal prejudice=2C not as members o= f a nation but as carriers of information they'll exchange between themselv= es together in the planetary community. Right now it's true that shells ar= e falling on Bosnia=2C Sarajevo=2C but it's unlikely that's where it will e= nd." "the war has shown you can't even rely on someone else's memory" listening plus what ** there's also the first full-length work of verse from Abdellatif Laabi in E= nglish=2C from Leafe Press 2009=2C Fragments of a Forgotten Genesis=2C tran= s. Gordon Hadfield and Nancy Hadfield:=20 http://www.leafepress.com/catalog/laabi/forgottengenesis.html And a play online=2C The Jackal's Baptism=2C Mayday 2009=2C trans. Gordon H= adfield: http://www.maydaymagazine.com/issue1translaabi.php = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 23:24:13 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jared Schickling Subject: Re: Ground Zero tolerance/intolerance: Tahar Djouat &Abdellatif Laabi-- > Demolitions, dispossession, displacement (2) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable And Rue du Retour=2C in English=2C a novella spanning 8 years on the day he= drives home or thereabouts. Can't remember. = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 23:45:40 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jared Schickling Subject: Re: Poems for the Millennium Ground Zero In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable and just to round things out "Tolerance finally ends up in a musuem. Along with justice=2C dignity=2C &= all of those other big abstractions people used to believe in." Wordsworth mentions "blind fondness" and in an abstract just now: "...the paper concludes by suggesting neither = [ST] Coleridge nor any modern legal scholar who invokes romantic reading strategies can achieve the vaunted interpretive objectivity legal authority seems to require." and Sade in the anthology and Greek having justice as evil =20 = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 07:54:12 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Catherine Daly Subject: Support Woodland Pattern MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There is still room to sign up and share your musical talents in support of our Alternating Currents Live concert series! 8 Straight hours of music, fun and dance! Don't be shy. Call today and sign up, 414-263-5001. Here are the details: We ask that each Music Marathon participant perform 10 minutes of music - jazz, folk, hip hop, rock, instrumental, experimental, etc. or any combination, and raise AT LEAST $25 in pledges. Individual pledges can be for any amount=97ask family, friends, neighbors, your mechanic, and anyone else you encounter regularly to support your music and support Woodland Pattern with a pledge. See who has already signed up here: http://www.woodlandpattern.org/music_marathon_2010.shtml Hope to see you there! Melissa Czarnik Marketing Director woodlandpattern@sbcglobal.net www.woodlandpattern.org =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 11:50:39 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: American Book Award for Poems for the Millennium In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Jim, the answer depend to which aspect of the Romantic movement you are > looking at. German Romanticism and accompanying philosophies and poetries > (and also Blake in the English side) have as much to do with the Modern > World as anything else. The difference is that that aspect has resulted in > a > more jaundiced view of progress than your view of the unadulterated > glories > of modernism. Don't assume you have any idea about my views, please, Murat. > Look at Hegel and Benjamin, or Hegel and Marx, or Nietzsche > and Wagner and Nazism. One can not have one without the other. The 20th > Century has also one of the most atrocious, blood thirsty periods in human > history, its great scientific and intellectual achievements (and I will > not > deny those achievements are real) making these blood thirty impulses more > efficient. Yes, it was especially horrific precisely because of the scale and conviction with which many of its massacres were executed, and this was only possible with greater butchery through technology. But this also distinguishes the Modern era from the era of Romanticism, Murat, highlights yet another of the dramatic differences between them. The point of the discussion, recall, is that, contrary to the nominating statement, Modernism differs quite strongly from Romanticism. Not to say that the Romantic or its effects and influence was not present in Modernity or has departed even now. The nominating statement says "Modernism rejected Romanticism in the way that one political leader rejects another--not because it is any different but because it wishes to win the same audience. This book demonstrates that the only thing that happened in Modernism was that a door opened onto still another aspect of the immense cultural experiment that Romanticism was..." It says they hardly differ and that Modernism merely extends what is already announced in Romanticism. Both of those statements are obviously false. And I'm not quite sure 'where they're going' with that. ja http://vispo.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 23:11:52 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: Re: MOSQUES, CHURCHES, APES, CESSPOOLS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit blake was great but if ya read carefully was unwittingly(?) an anti-semite On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 16:10:34 -0600 Jared Schickling writes: > Stephen B. I’d suggest that something > identifiable as “love,” passionate love, is not possible without > anger, hatred, > well-placed hatred. Knowing hell to > know heaven. That’s a buddhist > principle. I would prefer Blake. And I’ll bet the inimitable > George Bowering > can take it just fine. I’ll bet he > knows his use of the term “mediocrities” holds water. > > > > Steve R. There’s no > need for me to excuse your remark though I appreciate your concern. > Thank you. > The truth is holistically there’s dog in the yard to be cleaned > up—the > value of such fiction’s framing is that we begin, perhaps, to see > China’s Guiyu > not just from or as or relatable to America but it. Which is to > say, there in your mirror, mine, it. > > > > Michael F. I can > empathize with not wanting to squirm. > If we can agree that it’s just peachy for the wonders (such a > popular > word today) of poems and poet trees to go on sprouting the wonders > of bubbles > as larger actual worlds, literally, die …we do know what species of > bear whale > tuna tiger gorilla dog lake weed culture insect ice cap etc etc etc > will be > gone in the lifetimes of anyone around in another 40 years, right? … > and role > WE’ve played, right … and if we’re willing to call every purposeful > artist and > critic hell bent on evolution, as opposed to stagnation, a > “politician” … then > yes, politics is something crass to art. > I’ve also attended the poetry workshop. > > > > > I should probably substantiate that some of the above > actually exists but this doesn’t seem the appropriate forum. Plus > who am I to judge lol. > > > > Steve R, the word “relevant” is indeed uncertainly frightening. > ED’s idea about coming at it from the angle > – that to somehow get to it one skirts the issue, writes and reads > around it – > “it” specifically loose here – connotation (vast, inclusive words) > versus > denotation (unending, drooling words). > And I appreciate your honesty, “I’m simply not prepared for the > burden > of even considering what is or isn’t relevant…” My friend C once > poked and prodded his old Navy buddy to run > naked with him through Joshua Tree. > Poked and prodded for days and then, “C, I’m just not > psychologically > prepared.” That undeniability promptly > ended the prodding. > > > > I also couldn’t disagree more about beauty depending on > mastering tools. Or, more precisely, > that it depends on something vocational. > You have a point but when I hear this I hear stifling > specializations. “Learn the scales, > then forget them.” The dog in the yard > is beautiful because of what it is—the fact of the dog plus that > which I hadn’t > seen in it [sic] before. In fact beauty > and wonder would seem to depend more fully on realizing error – the > admission > of duncery. But I think part of the > trouble here would be agreeing on how we’re using the term > “beautiful.” I’d suggest there’s two kinds of beauty (and > probably more) – and sticking to guitar players – on the one hand, > of the sort > John McLaughlin produced in Miles Davis’s basement that drove all > those critics > nuts – in short, there is beauty somehow in loss / thwarting of > expectation, > the re-discovery of something thought understood (in this case, > “music”). I don’t know how to define that beauty other > than as that, which is of course in line with the definition. The > other is based upon all kinds of factors > that lead one to just like blue, where one brings to materials and > artifacts > and performances his and her expectations and expects them to be > fulfilled > albeit in novel ways, nonetheless the fulfilling of expectation, > anticipation, > etc. As if memory were involved. Not “what” you get, as the “what” > is prefab, > but “how” you get there. A diverting > beauty. The blues-model, you might > say. > > > > And, to end on the correct note—I have enjoyed your > post, and all of them. > > Jared > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 16:22:30 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Petra Kuppers Subject: Call for Applications: Movement, Somatics and Writing: A Practice-Based Symposium, University of Michigan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Call for Fellowship Applications: Movement, Somatics and Writing: A Practice-Based Research Symposium February 18th/19th, Duderstadt Video Performance Studio, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor Conference Team: Amy Sara Carroll, Assistant Professor of English and American Culture (Latina/o Studies), UM Thom Donovan, poet and essayist, co-editor of ON: Contemporary Practice and the weblog Wild Horses Of Fire Kate Elswit, Andrew W. Mellon Fellow (Drama/Dance), Stanford University Bhanu Kapil, Assistant Professor, Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics, Naropa University (Cross-Genre Narrative and Poetics) Jina Kim, PhD student, English/Women?s Studies, UM (Visual Culture) Petra Kuppers, Associate Professor of English, UM (Performance Studies) Eleni Stecopoulos, poet, writer, educator, curator of the Poetics of Healing project at the Poetry Center, San Francisco State University In our forth arts-based inquiry symposium (after Anarcha: African American culture/Disability Culture/Medical Ethics; Touching Time: Bodies/Writing/Histories; Eco-Performance) we want to build on the inter- or transdisciplinary methods explored so far, and invite scholars and artists to engage in experimental writing and art practice at the sites/cites of the moving, living body and the moving, living text. We invite up to ten fellows (graduate students, faculty, independent artists and writers) to come together for two days, to workshop, to use performances and presentations as provocations, and to plumb methods of merging art practice and critical writing . The specific topics we will address are yet to be determined by applicants? interests. But, to date, this symposium?s foci include or relate to innovative methodologies, writing-as-practice, somatics/embodiment, breath poetics, prosodic magic, language limit zones, conceptual ?isms, skin and membranes, mixed media and metaphors, the ethics of touch and movement, enjambed spacetime, transitions and becoming ______ . We will be in praxis together: this is not a conference to share the results of previous research or practice. Thus, we are not looking for papers, performances, portfolios, or readings; we plan to experiment. Come and share the excitement of your creative and critical research, present a workshop based on your passions, and find out what could happen? Each invitee will have transport and accommodation costs reimbursed up to $200 dollars. The conference hotel offers rooms for about sixty dollars a night, and we will assist people who want to be hosted by graduate students. Application Process: please send a short CV, a sample of your writing (creative, experimental, performative or critical), and a brief statement about why you would like to participate, to petra@umich.edu. You can also send URLs or a DVD or CD with performance or visual arts material. Query first about snail mail address by emailing the symposium director: Petra Kuppers, petra@umich.edu. Deadline: October 1, 2010 Notification: October 20, 2010 -- Petra Kuppers Associate Professor English, Theatre and Dance, Women's Studies University of Michigan 435 S. State Street 3187 Angell Hall Ann Arbor MI 48109-1003 mobile: 734-239-2634 email: petra@umich.edu Artistic Director of The Olimpias homepage: www.olimpias.org ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 15:37:39 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: Aaaaaaaaaaalice in Albany / Brooklyn / Philly MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi poetics friends.....hope to see some of you this week in albany or brook= lyn or philly.=A0 details below. my text-sound epic aaaaaaaaaaalice is now available on spd.=A0 flim forum p= ress still has a few review copies left so be in touch.=A0 big thanks to al= l who have already shown their support.=A0 it means a lot. onwards, jen karmin Flim Forum Press presents Aaaaaaaaaaalice by Jennifer Karmin travelogue in 11 cantos scored for polyvocal improvisation to buy online: http://www.aaaaaaaaaaalice.blogspot.com or thru SPD: htpp://www.spdbooks.org to query: klane@flimforum.com THURSDAY, AUGUST 26th Yes! Reading Series http://yesreading.wordpress.com/ @ the Albany Social Justice Center 33 Central Ave -- Albany, NY 7:30pm=20 Sarah Giragosian Jennifer Karmin Maryrose Larkin FRIDAY, AUGUST 27th Stain of Poetry http://stainofpoetry.wordpress.com/ @ Goodbye Blue Monday 1087 Broadway -- Brooklyn, NY 7pm Julie Doxsee Curtis Jensen Jennifer Karmin Eric Lindley Ben Mirov Peter Spagnulo SATURDAY, AUGUST 28th Whenever We Feel Like It http://wheneverwefeellikeit.blogspot.com/ @ Jose Pistolas 263 S 15th St -- Philly, PA 4pm Jennifer Karmin Pattie McCarthy Carlos Soto Roman =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 14:12:38 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "E. J. McAdams" Subject: Tuesday in NYC: Julie Patton LIVE!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Social Environmental Aesthetics (SEA) Poetry Series #5: JULIE EZELLE PATTON Tuesday, August 24th 7-9pm (in conjunction with the SEA Exhibit entitled CONSUME) $5 suggested donation. Cash Bar. EXIT ART, 475 10th Avenue (between 36th and 37th Streets), NYC *Julie Ezelle Patton* will be reading, followed by a reading/panel with local food activists, including *James Subudhi*, Environmental Policy and Advocacy Coordinator, WE ACT for Environmental Justice, Inc. (WE ACT) and others to be announced. There will be time for the audience to ask question= s and get involved in the discussion. Please plan to hang out in the bar following the formal presentation. *Julie Ezelle Patton* is the author of Using Blue To Get Black, Notes for Some (Nominally) Awake, and A Garden Per Verse (or What Else do You Expect from Dirt?). Julie=92s work has appeared in ((eco (lang)(uage(reader)), Critiphoria, and nocturnes. "Room for Opal,=94 a sound/text installation th= at Julie created as a Green Horizons Fellow at Bates College, is lovingly explored in Jonathan Skinner=92s =93Listening with Patton=94 (ON: Contempor= ary Practice, 2008). Julie=92s performance work, featured at the Stone, Jazz Standard, and noted international venues, emphasizes improvisation, collaboration, and other worldy chora-graphs. She has shape-shifted into a cat-witch for Sop Doll: A Jack Tale Noh (written by Lee Ann Brown and Tony Torn), Desdemona in Othello Syndrome (Uri Caine=92s 2009 Grammy nominated C= D), a ring-tone (Ravi Coltrane=92s At Night), and =93Onyx Blackly=92s=94 voice = of doom for Barnaby McAll=92s Triplum. Her publik dissertation, =93Chateau in z=92 Ghetto,=94 is an ArkiTextual dwelling space foregrounding creative utilitar= ian projects, ill-literacy, ritual maintenance work, neighborhood love-economies, and the familial philosophy of =93Making Do=94 in the urban desert of Cleveland, Ohio. The writing of this =93home-ek=94 project is exhibited, litter-ally and artifactually, in its own Salon des Refus=E9s. Spin-offs of this season-based (unreel) reality show reflect Julie=92s practice as a native plant and green space advocate (=93Let It Bee Gardens,= =94 =93Rockefeller Park Project,=94 =93Poet Tree Mitigation Works=94), market g= ardener (=93Sun Raw=94) and eco/arts educator (=93Old School=94). Julie is a recipi= ent of an Acadia Arts Foundation Grant (2008), and a New York Foundation for the Arts Poetry Fellowship (2007). Julie has taught at the Cooper Union for the Advancement of Science & Art, Naropa, Teachers & Writers Collaborative and Schule fur Dichtung (Vienna, Austria). She lives in the =93East Pillage=94 = of New York City. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 12:08:21 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Double (musical) Seance for Stephen Dydo and Adam Tobin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Double (musical) Seance for Stephen Dydo and Adam Tobin Rhythm from the Casio SK-1 with lead viola Best yet because of accompaniment; in 4, it's a continuous chord and in 3 it's a series held in the SK-1's limited memory - starting and stopping create the stanzaic structure of the piece. Ah if I could only make money from my God-Given talent, what I would do, after paying off my debts, to better this beautiful world! http://espdisk.com/alansondheim/viola4.mp3 http://espdisk.com/alansondheim/viola5.mp3 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 22:05:07 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: American Book Award for Poems for the Millennium In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > "Jim, the answer depend to which aspect of the Romantic movement you are > looking at. German Romanticism and accompanying philosophies and poetries > (and also Blake in the English side) have as much to do with the Modern > World as anything else. The difference is that that aspect has resulted in > a > more jaundiced view of progress than your view of the unadulterated glories > of modernism. > Don't assume you have any idea about my views, please, Murat." Jim, you do have a gung-ho attitude towards progress and glories of modernism. Here is how you express it: "But the nominating statement does not acknowlege the deep originality of the Modern era--an originality borne from unprecedented global turmoil, the rise of the middle class in both Europe and North America, unprecedented scientific and technological advance, and deep conviction in the power and value of language, art, and science despite the tragic conditions that prevailed through much of Modernism." The rise of middle class and technological advances had already started in the 19th century. De Toqueville's work on America is all about that. What does "deep conviction in the power and value of language, art and science" mean? Do you mean before the Modern Age these things were not valued? What about the Biblical "at the beginning was the word"? Is there a stronger statement about the value of language? As for the "value of art" - have you thought about Benjamin's essay about the work of art in an age of mechanical reproduction? Once again, I am not denying the profound significance of the intellectual achievements and social transformations of the 20th century; but to think that these occurred out of nothing, that time starts at 1901 is, pardon my expression, a bit ridiculous. Look at Hegel and Benjamin, or Hegel and Marx, or Nietzsche > and Wagner and Nazism. One can not have one without the other. The 20th > Century has also one of the most atrocious, blood thirsty periods in human > history, its great scientific and intellectual achievements (and I will not > deny those achievements are real) making these blood thirty impulses more > efficient. > "Yes, it was especially horrific precisely because of the scale and conviction with which many of its massacres were executed, and this was only possible with greater butchery through technology." But, Jim, that is what you say: "unprecedented scientific and technological advance, and deep conviction in the power and value of language, art, and science *despite* the tragic conditions that prevailed through much of Modernism." The word "despite" do not suggest a cause and effect relationship. In fact, many of the glories of modern thought were often also the enablers of these conditions. Your initial statement tries to separate them. With the rest of your statement I do not have much disagreement. Of course, the Modern Era created new intellectual conditions, often attacking Romantic thinkers, poets and artists themselves. But these attacks are often exaggerated, disingenuous or one sided. For instance, I am reading at the present moment Brian Kim Stefans's The Fashionable Noise. In one of his essays in the book he uses a Tennison "translation" I believe of an old Scottish ballad as a source text. Many 19th century writers and thinkers have constituted the backbone of Modern thought. This to seems self evident. Didn't Cantor do most of his work in the 19th century? Ciao, Murat On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: > Jim, the answer depend to which aspect of the Romantic movement you are >> looking at. German Romanticism and accompanying philosophies and poetries >> (and also Blake in the English side) have as much to do with the Modern >> World as anything else. The difference is that that aspect has resulted in >> a >> more jaundiced view of progress than your view of the unadulterated >> glories >> of modernism. >> > > Don't assume you have any idea about my views, please, Murat. > > > Look at Hegel and Benjamin, or Hegel and Marx, or Nietzsche >> and Wagner and Nazism. One can not have one without the other. The 20th >> Century has also one of the most atrocious, blood thirsty periods in human >> history, its great scientific and intellectual achievements (and I will >> not >> deny those achievements are real) making these blood thirty impulses more >> efficient. >> > > Yes, it was especially horrific precisely because of the scale and > conviction with which many of its massacres were executed, and this was only > possible with greater butchery through technology. > > But this also distinguishes the Modern era from the era of Romanticism, > Murat, highlights yet another of the dramatic differences between them. > > The point of the discussion, recall, is that, contrary to the nominating > statement, Modernism differs quite strongly from Romanticism. > > Not to say that the Romantic or its effects and influence was not present > in Modernity or has departed even now. > > The nominating statement says "Modernism rejected Romanticism in the way > that one political leader rejects another--not because it is any different > but because it wishes to win the same audience. This book demonstrates that > the only thing that happened in Modernism was that a door opened onto still > another aspect of the immense cultural experiment that Romanticism was..." > It says they hardly differ and that Modernism merely extends what is already > announced in Romanticism. Both of those statements are obviously false. And > I'm not quite sure 'where they're going' with that. > > ja > http://vispo.com > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 01:41:18 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: poetry and pedagogy In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Why not just write a new poetic pedagogy yourself? Forget buying or borrow= ing one. What's the point of that? You're going to have to learn to be st= erling on your own some day=2C so what not just start now? =20 Ciao. =20 =20 > Date: Fri=2C 20 Aug 2010 21:00:26 -0400 > From: inksaudible@GMAIL.COM > Subject: poetry and pedagogy > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 > Hi Everyone >=20 > Does anyone know how I can cheaply obtain a copy of Retallack and Spahr's > Poetry and Pedagogy: The Challenge of the Contemporary=2C a book publishe= d a > few years ago? the book is ridiculously expensive to buy new and my two > main sources of books=2C the Brooklyn Public and CUNY libraries do not ow= n > this book. I am embarrassingly=2C shamefully poor and disastrously in nee= d of > a new pedagogy and poetics. I am hoping that this book will renew my > energies=2C teaching experiences and my bank account=2C after I am hired = for > excitingly new poetry teaching gigs inspired by this book. >=20 > I tremendously love adverbs. Do you? >=20 > Please backchannel if you know how I can get this book on the cheap. Free= =2C > even. >=20 > Your pal=2C > Douglas Manson >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 10:41:27 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "Dr. Dina Ripsman Eylon" Subject: Deadline Extended: Women in Judaism Writing Competition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain Women in Judaism=92s First Annual Writing Competition www.womeninjudaism.org Women in Judaism: A Multidisciplinary is now accepting submissions for it= s=20 2010 annual writing competition. The e-journal is looking for unpublished= =20 submissions of short fiction, poetry, and essays on Jewish themes that to= uch=20 the lives and experiences of Jewish women. PRIZES: Short Fiction First Place: $250=20 Second Place: $100=20 Third Place: $50=20 Poetry First Place: $250=20 Second Place: $100=20 Third Place: $50=20 Essays First Place: $250=20 Second Place: $100 Third Place: $50=20 Winning entries will be published in the two yearly issues of the journal= .=20 GENERAL GUIDELINES: We accept only electronic submissions. Send submissions to the journal=92= s=20 editor-in-chief, Dr. Dina Ripsman Eylon: dina.eylon@utoronto.ca Submit one short story/poem/essay per entry fee. Multiple submissions are= =20 allowed. All styles and forms are accepted. No simultaneous submissions a= re=20 allowed. Submissions should arrive by email before the set deadline. EXTENDED DEADLINE:=20 October 1, 2010.=20 FORMAT:=20 All entries should be in Word or RTF with author=92s full name, address, = phone=20 number, and email address, appearing on the first page of each entry. ENTRY FEE:=20 $10 (US/CAD) fee for each short story or essay. $5 (US/CAD) for each poem= .=20 Form of payment: Use PayPal on the journal=92s website (see the Donate bu= tton=20 at the bottom of each webpage), or mail a money order payable to Women in= =20 Judaism at the following address: Women in Judaism: A Multidisciplinary Journal 1136-3 Centre St., Ste. 246 Thornhill, ON L4J 3M8 Canada Contact: Dr. Dina Ripsman Eylon Email: dina.eylon@ utoronto.ca =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 13:33:02 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Dan Wilcox Subject: 3 Guys from Albany to Perform at Oklahoma LaborFest, to Visit Albany, OK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) "3 Guys from Albany" to Perform at Oklahoma LaborFest, to Visit Albany, = OK "3 Guys from Albany," a poetry performance group, have been invited to = be featured poets at the Oklahoma LaborFest, held August 26-28 in = Oklahoma City, OK. "3 Guys from Albany" will perform on August 26 at = Coffey=92s Caf=E9 in the Plaza District (http://www.coffyscafe.org/#) = and will read as part of =93Oklahoma Speaks=94 on August 28 at the Lyric = Theatre Auditorium (http://www.oklahomarevelator.com/laborfest). On = August 27, "3 Guys from Albany" will perform at the Albany/Wade Senior = Center in Albany, OK. A complete itinerary is included below. "3 Guys from Albany" (Tom Nattell, Charlie Rossiter and Dan Wilcox) have = a mission to read their poetry in each of the Albanys in the U.S. They = are friends who share the idea that poetry should be a part of society = rather than apart from it -- relevant, communicative and, above all, = honest. Their poems address social issues such as the homeless, peace = and war, and the environment, as well as joyful celebrations of art, = love and life. They have toured the United States since 1993 and so far = they have read in 12 of the 18 Albanys in the USA. They have released a = 60-minute cassette tape and CD of their poetry performance, available at = their readings or by mail. Although Tom Nattell died of cancer in = January 2005, Charlie & Dan are continuing the project, along with the = ever-present nudging from the spirit of Tom. Charlie Rossiter is a recipient of an NEA fellowship for his poetry and = is the host of www.poetrypoetry.com.=20 Dan Wilcox hosts the Third Thursday open mic at the Social Justice = Center in Albany, NY & has the world's largest collection of photos of = unknown poets. You can find him at dwlcx.blogspot.com Tom Nattell was an international mail artist, environmentalist, poet and = peace activist who wrote the "Simple Life" column for Metroland, = Albany's entertainment weekly. For more information about "3 Guys from Albany" e-mail: = dwlcx@earthlink.net, or visit the website, www.3guysfromalbany.com. 3 Guys from Albany August 2010 Tour August 26, Oklahoma LaborFest Poetry Reading, 7PM, Coffey=92s Caf=E9, = 1739 N.W. 16th St, Oklahoma City, OK August 27, Albany/Wade Senior Center, 12:30PM, Albany, OK August 28, =93Oklahoma Speaks,=94 7PM, Lyric Theatre Auditorium, 1801 NW = 16th St., Oklahoma City, OK August 29, Full Circle Bookstore, 2PM, 50 Penn Place Mall, Oklahoma = City, OK= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 19:01:37 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Michael Heller Subject: This Art Burning, Performances September 11th (7:30 PM) and September 12th (4:30 PM) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable PRESS RELEASE THIS ART BURNING =96A STAGED PERFORMANCE FEATURING=20 NEW EXPLORATIONS IN SETTING POETRY THROUGH VIDEO,=20 SPOKEN WORD, MUSICAL ACCOMPANIMENT, OPERA AND SONG AT THE PHILLY FRINGE. THIS ART BURNING, a multimedia musical and=20 literary event by the composer Ellen=20 Fishman-Johnson and the poet Michael Heller will=20 be presented on Saturday, September 11 at 7:30 PM=20 and Sunday, September 12 at 4 PM at the=20 Performance Garage at 1515 Brandywine Street,=20 Philadelphia, 19130. Admission $10.00. For=20 tickets, contact the Festival Box Office at (215)=20 413-1318 or visit www.livearts-fringe.org. This Art Burning brings to the Philly Fringe=20 Festival the collaborations of composer Ellen Fishman-Johnson and poet Michael Heller. Their=20 unique multimedia works integrate Fishman-Johnson=92s music and video with Heller=92s=20 modernist texts on autobiography, art, history, religion and culture, several of=20 which were created especially for this performance. Fishman-Johnson and Heller have been working=20 together since they met at the Yaddo artist colony in 1990. Their first collaboration,=20 Heteroglossia, for taped music and text (1991), earned them an invitation to the 1991 Montreal=20 International Computer Music Conference. Their next work, Freedom, after all? premiered at=20 the Peabody Conservatory in Baltimore in 1992. Their Internet film, After Montale,=20 produced in 2002 and based on a poem by Heller, creates a musical score paced to the visual unfolding of the text. Their most extensive undertaking to date,=20 Benjamin, is a multimedia opera based on the life and tragic suicide of Walter Benjamin,=20 the 20th century German-Jewish literary critic and philosopher. It was presented at the=20 Philadelphia Fringe Festival in 2000. The Philadelphia Inquirer praised the work for the=20 =93palpable commitment from its creators,=94 its =93ideal musical language=94 and a score =93that is=20 perfectly communicative.=94 Portions of the opera are in this program. This Art Burning, a work based on Heller=92s poem=20 =93Autobiographia,=94 is a highly-charged multimedia exploration through music and words of=20 the Jewish cultural and musical heritage the two artists share. A highlight of this performance is the premier of=20 a new piece for violin and video, Out of Pure Sound, featuring four of Heller=92s=20 poems, and performed by violinist Leah Kim. Other artists involved in the program are=20 percussionist Harvey Price and pianist, Sheri Melcher who will accompany singers Shannon Coulter, Amanda Matyas, Brian Vandenberge and Robert Brandt. Christopher G. McGinley will direct a small choir. Lighting is by Catherine Lee and sound design by Simon Rogers. This project is partially supported by a grant=20 from the Philadelphia Chapter of the American Composers Forum. ELLEN FISHMAN-JOHNSON writes for traditional ensembles as well as those incorporating electro-acoustic sound and video.=20 She often works with choreographers, dancers, artists and poets. She recently=20 collaborated for a third time with choreographer and former Martha Graham dancer, Jeanne Ruddy, on=20 a piece titled Lark (2009). Merilyn Jackson writing in The Philadelphia Inquirer=20 cited Fishman-Johnson=92s =93sprightly, complex 21st-century score whose swirling=20 arpeggios harmonized well with the choreography.=94 Her choral piece, Women Who Came Before Us, based=20 on a poem by Naomi Shihab Nye, was described by David Patrick Stearns, music=20 critic for The Philadelphia Inquirer, as =93compelling.=94 Fishman-Johnson is currently the Director of New=20 Media at Springside School in Philadelphia. MICHAEL HELLER has published over twenty books of poetry, essays and memoir, most recently Eschaton (2009) and Beckmann Variations & other poems (2010).= Mr. Heller has won numerous awards for his work, which The New York Times= described as =93intent on inquiry, filled with illumination.=94=20 His poems and essays have appeared in such publications as The Paris Review, The=20 Nation, The Atlantic Review and The New York Times. He has taught at New York University=20 and at colleges and universities in the United States and Europe. He lives in Manhattan. [] CONTACT INFO Ellen Fishman-Johnson (215) 687-6763, efjcomposer@me.com Also see www.efjcomoser.com. Website: www.michaelhellerpoetry.com. Recent=20 publications: Beckmann Variations & other poems=20 (Shearsman, 2010), Eschaton (new poems) (Talisman=20 House Publishers, 2009), Two Novellas: Marble=20 Snows & The Study (ahadada press, 2009) are all=20 available from their publishers, at good=20 bookstores and from SPD and amazon.com. Speaking=20 The Estranged: Essays on the Work of George Oppen=20 (Salt, 2008); Uncertain Poetries: Essays on=20 Poets, Poetry and Poetics (Salt, 2005) and=20 Exigent Futures: New and Selected Poems (Salt,=20 2003) are available from www.saltpublishing.com,=20 amazon.com and good bookstores. Survey of work at=20 http://www.thing.net/~grist/ld/heller.htm=20 Collaborations with the composer Ellen Fishman=20 Johnson at=20 http://www.efjcomposer.com/EFJ/Collaborations.html=20 Recordings at http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/Heller.html Website: www.michaelhellerpoetry.com. Recent=20 publications: Beckmann Variations & other poems=20 (Shearsman, 2010), Eschaton (new poems) (Talisman=20 House Publishers, 2009), Two Novellas: Marble=20 Snows & The Study (ahadada press, 2009) are all=20 available from their publishers, at good=20 bookstores and from SPD and amazon.com. Speaking=20 The Estranged: Essays on the Work of George Oppen=20 (Salt, 2008); Uncertain Poetries: Essays on=20 Poets, Poetry and Poetics (Salt, 2005) and=20 Exigent Futures: New and Selected Poems (Salt,=20 2003) are available from www.saltpublishing.com,=20 amazon.com and good bookstores. Survey of work at=20 http://www.thing.net/~grist/ld/heller.htm=20 Collaborations with the composer Ellen Fishman=20 Johnson at=20 http://www.efjcomposer.com/EFJ/Collaborations.html=20 Recordings at http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/Heller.html =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 19:10:20 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Michael Heller Subject: Correction and apologies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Correction: admission to This Art Burning is $15.00. My apologies. Website: www.michaelhellerpoetry.com. Recent publications: Beckmann Variations & other poems (Shearsman, 2010), Eschaton (new poems) (Talisman House Publishers, 2009), Two Novellas: Marble Snows & The Study (ahadada press, 2009) are all available from their publishers, at good bookstores and from SPD and amazon.com. Speaking The Estranged: Essays on the Work of George Oppen (Salt, 2008); Uncertain Poetries: Essays on Poets, Poetry and Poetics (Salt, 2005) and Exigent Futures: New and Selected Poems (Salt, 2003) are available from www.saltpublishing.com, amazon.com and good bookstores. Survey of work at http://www.thing.net/~grist/ld/heller.htm Collaborations with the composer Ellen Fishman Johnson at http://www.efjcomposer.com/EFJ/Collaborations.html Recordings at http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/Heller.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 22:30:59 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Douglas Manson Subject: Re: poetry and pedagogy In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Okay. You're right. First I stopped driving cars and grew new feet, then I learned endocrine phonology and syncopated heartbeat prosody, then I drew a circle around myself and promised not to leave until a bird landed on my outstretched arm and sang 14 iambs. Afterward I enrolled in the curriculum of the soul and paid all my back parataxes. Next stop, Coney Island with a six pack and a relapsed phenomenologist. Pick up thy lyres and toot, o craftspeople. Or go to: http://dougfinmanson.blogspot.com/2010/07/courses-workshops-and-seminars-offered.html and sign up. Classes begin next week. Please pay in potatoes and tomatoes. D On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 9:41 PM, Stephen Ellis wrote: > Why not just write a new poetic pedagogy yourself? Forget buying or > borrowing one. What's the point of that? You're going to have to learn to > be sterling on your own some day, so what not just start now? > > Ciao. > > > > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 21:00:26 -0400 > > From: inksaudible@GMAIL.COM > > Subject: poetry and pedagogy > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > > Hi Everyone > > > > Does anyone know how I can cheaply obtain a copy of Retallack and Spahr's > > Poetry and Pedagogy: The Challenge of the Contemporary, a book published > a > > few years ago? the book is ridiculously expensive to buy new and my two > > main sources of books, the Brooklyn Public and CUNY libraries do not own > > this book. I am embarrassingly, shamefully poor and disastrously in need > of > > a new pedagogy and poetics. I am hoping that this book will renew my > > energies, teaching experiences and my bank account, after I am hired for > > excitingly new poetry teaching gigs inspired by this book. > > > > I tremendously love adverbs. Do you? > > > > Please backchannel if you know how I can get this book on the cheap. > Free, > > even. > > > > Your pal, > > Douglas Manson > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 13:04:46 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Christophe Casamassima Subject: Dialogue's End: Inter[re]view with Emily Carr & David Wolach Comments: To: Nicole Mauro , ylimerrac@gmail.com, dwuaw@yahoo.com, magusmagnus1@gmail.com, douglas mowbray MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 http://thedialoguesend.blogspot.com/ This is the second installment of inter[re]views between authors at Furniture Press Books and Black Radish Books. In this turn, Emily Carr and David Wolach enter something that looks like the pages of Jaques Derrida's Cinders. Emily Carr reviews David Wolach's Occultations, while David reviews Emily's Directions for Flying. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 13:41:25 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jen Tynes Subject: chapbooks from Denrow and Sikkema! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 horse less chapbooks from Jennifer Denrow and Mike Sikkema are here! Order them now! Right now! $6 each or both for $10! Free shipping! Man o man! http://www.horselesspress.com/chapbooks.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 00:32:56 -0400 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Rob McLennan Subject: new(ish) on rob's clever blog -- 12 or 20 questions: with Elizabeth Robinson -- Walking Brun's Wick: bpNichol's The Martyrology Book 5 -- Joanne Irene Page McLennan: June 30, 1940-August 19, 2010 -- my mother (joanne irene page mclennan): a medical update; -- call for submisions (forward); dusty owl chapbook -- 12 or 20 questions: with Alisha Piercy -- fiction: from "boy and girl and man and woman," a novel-in-progress -- friday the thirteenth, toronto; -- Al Rempel, understories -- rob mclennan's Ottawa poetry workshops: September-December -- The Peter F. Yacht Club: a miscellany, -- Lissa Wolsak's Squeezed Light: Collected Poems 1994-2005 -- 12 or 20 questions: with Hank Lazer -- Creaturely and Other Essays, by Devin Johnston -- Open Letter 14.3: Kootenay School of Writing -- 12 or 20 (small press) questions: Meredith Quarter... -- another weekend in old glengarry; -- Bloomsday, High Park; -- 12 or 20 questions: with Alexander Jorgensen -- Peter Norman's At the Gates of the Theme Park -- 12 or 20 questions: with Gabriella Goliger -- 2 new above/ground press chapbooks: Marilyn Irwin + rob mclennan www.robmclennan.blogspot.com + some other new things at ottawa poetry newsletter www.ottawapoetry.blogspot.com + some other new things at the Chaudiere Booksblog www.chaudierebooks.blogspot.com -- writer/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...poetry - wild horses (U of Alberta) ...2nd novel - missing persons www.abovegroundpress.blogspot.com * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 10:16:58 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "Stain of Poetry presents:". Rest of header flushed. From: amy king Subject: THIS FRIDAY: Julie Doxsee, Curtis Jensen, Jennifer Karmin, Eric Lindley, Ben Mirov and Peter Spagnuolo! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable August 27, Friday ~ Julie Doxsee, Curtis = =0AStain of Poetry presents:=0A=0AAugust 27, Friday ~ Julie Doxsee, Curtis = Jensen, Jennifer Karmin, Eric Lindley, =0ABen Mirov and Peter Spagnuolo!=0A= =0A7 PM @ Goodbye Blue Monday =E2=80=93 Bushwick, Brooklyn=0A=0Awith=0A=0A= Julie Doxsee holds a PhD from the University of Denver and is the=0Aauthor = of Objects for a Fog Death (Black Ocean 2010) and Undersleep=0A(Octopus Boo= ks 2008). She teaches creative writing, literature, and=0Aacademic writing= at Koc University in Istanbul, Turkey, where she=0Alives on the European s= ide of the Bosphorus.=0A~=0A=0ACurtis Jensen works and studies in Brooklyn,= but he=E2=80=99d rather be=0Asomewhere else. He maintains a blog at theend= ofwaste.blogspot.com=0A~=0A=0AJennifer Karmin=E2=80=99s text-sound epic, Aa= aaaaaaaaalice, was published by=0AFlim Forum Press in 2010. She curates the= Red Rover Series and is=0Aco-founder of the public art group Anti Gravity = Surprise. Her=0Amultidisciplinary projects have been presented at festival= s,=0Aartist-run spaces, community centers, and on city streets across the= =0AU.S., Japan, and Kenya. A proud member of the Dusie Kollektiv, she is=0A= the author of the Dusie chapbook Evacuated: Disembodying Katrina.=0AWalking= Poem, a collaborative street project, is featured online at=0AHow2. At hom= e in Chicago, Jennifer teaches creative writing to=0Aimmigrants at Truman C= ollege and works as a Poet-in-Residence for the=0Apublic schools.=0A~=0A=0A= Eric Lindley is a bi-coastal artist/researcher/teacher, living with a=0Afoo= t in New York and a foot in Los Angeles. His work, ranging from=0Acritical/= creative cross-genre writing, to biofeedback installation, to=0Afluxus-styl= e event scores, puppet-musicals, digital photography,=0Aexperimentally-base= d research in cognitive linguistics, and=0Aelectro-folk music, has appeared= in/at: Eoagh, Antennae, Joyland, The=0ASanta Monica Museum of Art, the CUN= Y graduate galleries, Telic=0AGallery, the Veleslavasay Panorama, Machine P= roject, REDCAT, the=0AKnitting Factory, the Juliard School of Music, Pianos= , the Smell, The=0ARoyal College of Music (UK), STEIM (Netherlands), and ma= ny other=0Aplaces that his body has occupied at one point or another. He ha= s=0Arecently finished a book-length set of narrative, semi-fictional=0Apros= e-poems, as well as two full-length albums of electronic folk=0Amusic=E2=80= =94the second as =E2=80=9CCareful,=E2=80=9D to be released March, 2010. Ple= ase=0Aconsider submitting to his lovingly co-edited,=0Aonline-and-soon-to-b= e-print literary journal, [out of nothing].=0A~=0A=0ABen Mirov is the autho= r of I IS TO VORTICISM (New Michigan Press,=0A2010) and GHOST MACHINE (Cake= rain, 2010). He is poetry editor of LIT=0AMagazine and general editor of pa= x americana. He lives in Brooklyn.=0A~=0A=0APeter Spagnuolo is the author o= f the letterpress chapbooks A=0ASquatter=E2=80=99s Midden and Ten by Fourte= en, as well as Egg and Dart (2010).=0AHe lives in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, whe= re his vices have wrestled his=0Avirtues to a draw.=0A=0Aat=0A=0AGoodbye Bl= ue Monday=0A1087 Broadway=0A(corner of Dodworth St)=0ABrooklyn, NY 11221-30= 13 (718) 453-6343=0AJ M Z trains to Myrtle Ave=0Aor J train to Kosciusko St= =0A~=0AHosted by Steven Karl, Erika Moya, and Christie Ann Reynolds=0Awww.s= tainofpoetry.com=0A=0A=0A ********=0ANow That's WAC=0A+ http://wearechampio= n.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html=0A=0A=0AAmy's Alias=0A+ http://amyking= .org/ =0A********=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 18:57:22 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nate Pritts Subject: H_NGM_N chapbooks from Liening & Donne MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable H_NGM_N BKS has two new portable document format chapbooks out --> Brad Liening. OBLIVION=2C MORE. Matthew Donne. WONDROUS MACHINERY. Check them out here :: http://www.h-ngm-n.com/h_ngm_n-books/ ___________ :: Dr. Nate Pritts =20 :: http://www.natepritts.com =20 = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 09:19:02 -0700 Reply-To: derek beaulieu Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: derek beaulieu Subject: new from No: "Crowns Creek" by Steve McCaffery & Steven Ross Smith Comments: To: "Undisclosed-Recipient:;"@invalid.domain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No press is proud to announce the publication of CROWNS CREEK by Steve McCaffery & Steven Ross Smith CROWNS CREEK was originally published in an edition of 100 copies in = 1978 by anonbeyondpress and has been reprinted. published in an edition of 100 copies of 8 leaves in a numbered folder = (of which 50 are for sale). $5 each (including shipping) for more information, or to order copies, email=20 derek@housepress.ca derek beaulieu 2 - 733 2nd avenue nw calgary alberta canada T2N 0E4 derek@housepress.ca http://derekbeaulieu.wordpress.com/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:37:47 -0400 Reply-To: Susan Wheeler Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Susan Wheeler Subject: David Larsen Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed David, if you're out there -- or if anyone might give me current contact information -- please backchannel. Thanks! Susan Susan Wheeler Creative Writing Program Princeton University 6th Floor New South Building Princeton, NJ 08544 609-258-4711 office swheeler@princeton.edu ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 13:46:53 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Sharon Mesmer/David Borchart Subject: Re: Comments in Chinese In-Reply-To: Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I ran my Chinese blog comments thru Babelfish, made poems, and the poems = were pub'd in the recent Satellite Telephone: http://nolongdistance.endingthealphabet.org/ If you want to see them let me know and I can b/c them to you. -- Sharon Mesmer On Aug 18, 2010, at 4:53 PM, marc vincenz wrote: > Plenty of Chinese SPAM novels out there. No seriously - I lived in = Shanghai > for over ten years. Some of the best fiction in China is web-based. > In so far as censorship is concerned, I doubt that anything of serious = merit > could manage to navigate out of the Chinese government's spiderweb. > That is, of course, unless you go through Hong Kong. Look at Google > for Sun Tzu's sake. FYI, Wolf Totem was available online long before = it > got on to the bestsellers' list. >=20 > On 16 August 2010 17:52, Ann Bogle wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> I've been told that comments in Chinese to weblogs are "spam." I have >> deleted a few of those comments. Then I realized that they may not = be spam >> but >> may be legitimate comments. I have begun to translate 14 of them = using >> Babelfish. They seem to be wisdom sayings, such as this one: "The = success >> may >> attract the friend, frustrates may test the friend." I'd like = information >> -- >> if anyone has experience -- about issues in Chinese blogging, = including >> censorship. >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check = guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check = guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 14:34:39 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: CA Conrad Subject: RICHARD BRAUTIGAN Urchin Reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 RICHARD BRAUTIGAN Urchin Reading on 9/9/10 all details here: http://UrchinPoetry.blogspot.com SEE YOU THERE! CAConrad -- PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 10:24:53 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Michael Subject: AGAINST BIG OIL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Against Big Oil benefit performance for the Louisiana Bucket Brigade at = Rancho Parnassus, 132 Sixth Street (between Natomas and Minna St.) in = San Francisco on the 27th of August, 8-11pm. Musicians, poets and artists: Michael Rothenberg and Terri Carrion of = the poetry/music ensemble Rockpile; Jack Hirschman and Agneta Falk = Hirschman; Dana Alberts of the band Minus One; performance poetic = eruptions of David Magdalene and Judy Irwin (on synthesizer); the = eco-eroticism of La Tigresa and the Tongues of Flame; Marc Kockinos, = Chrissy Moore, Arthur Sheridan, Josh Boylan, Dee Allen, Geoffrey Todd = Lake, Daniel Michael McKenzie, Bethany Rose and Pablo Rosales. $5 donation no one turned away. For more info call Carl Macki at 415 596 5264. Thanks. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 10:59:24 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: HOWL ! Festival 2010 POETRY Events Comments: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" , pussipo@googlegroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HOWL ! Festival 2010 POETRY Events Dear Friends: You are = =0A=0AHOWL ! Festival 2010 POETRY Events=0A =0ADear Friends:=0A =0AYou are = invited to attend this year=E2=80=99s HOWL ! Festival !=0AWe have a number = of poetry events which I hope you will come and experience:=0A =0A =0AMonda= y Sept 6th Theatre 80 St. Marks: 80 Saint Marks Place 4pm-6pm $10.00=0ASIST= ER SON/JI by Sonia Sanchez=0AIn Sister Son/Ji, written by Sonia Sanchez, di= rected by SC2 and starring =0AJacqueline Gregg, poet/playwright Sanchez unf= linchingly examines the paradoxical =0Anotions of liberation within in the = Black Power Movement. Sonia Sanchez is a =0APoet. Mother. Professor. Nation= al and International lecturer on Black Culture =0Aand Literature, Women=E2= =80=99s Liberation, Peace and Racial Justice, as well as an =0Aauthor of ov= er 16 books... Sc2 is the founder & Artistic Director of BeBop =0ATheatre C= ollective... Jacqueline Gregg, who has performed in countless plays, =0Abot= h classical and modern, also works extensively with various educational =0A= theatre organizations, bringing classical as well as contemporary theatre t= o =0Aschools in and around New York City. After the show we will present a = Talk-Back =0Awith Ms. Sanchez. Door proceeds to benefit the Actors Fund for= HOWL! HELP.=0AAdvance Tickets: http://www.brownpapertickets.com/event/1244= 00=0A=0A =0ATuesday Sept 7th Theatre 80 St. Marks: 80 Saint Marks Place 8pm= -10:30pm $10.00=0ATHE BEAT LEGACY IN FILM, WORDS & MUSIC:=0ARuth Du, Marc T= horman & Bob Holman=0AALLEN GINSBERG, WILLIAM BURROUGHS and JOHN CAGE=E2=80= =A6 their groundbreaking and =0Aexperimental work in the Post War years sti= ll resonates and has influenced many =0Aof the current generation of artist= s living and working now in the East =0AVillage/Lower East Side. Tonight=E2= =80=99s program celebrates that and features RUTH =0ADU's short film 'SIX '= 55', an historical interpretation of the first night Allen =0AGinsberg reci= ted 'Howl' in San Francisco, at the Six Gallery in 1955... 2 PIECES =0ABY M= ARC THORMAN -- 'Writing through Howl (1986) For Allen Ginsberg on his =0ASi= xtieth Birthday' by John Cage, an example of Cage's 'writing through' proce= ss, =0Awhich searches the poem 'Howl' sequentially for words that share let= ters with =0AAllen Ginsberg's name resulting in what Cage called 'mesostic'= poetry, his term =0Aderived from the word 'acrostic' and 'I Am Right, You = Are Wrong,' music by Marc =0AThorman, text by William S. Burroughs featurin= g the recorded voice of Allen =0AGinsberg reading the text to two live impr= ovised instrumental trios. With Marc =0AThorman: piano, Gregory Post: keybo= ards, Eric Cooper: cello, Sean Ormiston: =0Astring bass, and Patrick O'Reil= ly & Cory Bracken on percussion. Marc Thorman is =0Aa composer, pianist, au= thor and teacher in New York City. His compositions =0Ainclude works for co= mputer, live electronics, solo piano, voice, orchestra, and =0Achamber ense= mbles, as well as mixed-media works that combine sounds, spoken =0Aword, an= d visual images. Marc earned a doctoral degree in music composition from = =0Athe City University of New York in 2002 and has taught music theory and = history =0Ain CUNY colleges citywide. In the 1990s He edited the legendary = 'zine 'High Heel =0ANews'... So far as we know, BOB HOLMAN and his porkpie = are the sole purveyors of =0Athe Lower East Side Poetry Hat Trick: he ran r= eadings and was Project =0ACoordinator at the St Mark's Poetry Project from= 1974-84, helped reopen and was =0Athe Original Slammaster of the Nuyorican = Poets Cafe 1988-96, and founded and has =0Abeen Artistic Director of the Bo= wery Poetry Club since 2002. For good measure, =0Ahe was on the Board of A = Gathering of the Tribes from 1994-2000. He teaches at =0AColumbia and NYU, = and recently helped found the Endangered Language Alliance, =0Ausing poetry= to illuminate the plight of vanishing languages and cultures. In =0Ahis sp= are time he writes the poems; tonight he reads them to us. Door proceeds = =0Ato benefit The Actors Fund for HOWL! HELP.=0AAdvance tickets: http://www= .brownpapertickets.com/event/123728=0A =0A =0AThursday Sept 9th Theatre 80 = St. Marks: 80 Saint Marks Place 8pm-9:30pm $10.00=0AFILM: JERRY ARONSON'S '= THE LIFE AND TIMES OF ALLEN GINSBERG'=0AThe re-release of Jerry Aronson's b= iopic, The Life and Times of Allen Ginsberg, =0Atimed to celebrate the fift= ieth anniversary of 'Howl,' suits this wonderful =0Adocumentary and proves = Ginsberg central to all radical artistic and political =0Amovements of the = past 60 years. The feature-length film, segmented by decade, =0Aprovides am= ple footage of Ginsberg's life; but extras added into this package, =0Aincl= uding footage of his memorial and 35 interviews with artists inspired by th= e =0Avisionary poet--from Beck to Lawrence Ferlinghetti--solidify Ginsberg = as an =0AAmerican cultural icon. The film unravels Ginsberg's obsession for= life and =0Adeath around his mother's nervous breakdown and his father's a= ffinity for =0Apoetry. Interviews with Ginsberg from each decade, both amon= gst his Beat friends =0Alike Burroughs and Huncke, and later with talk show= hosts William Buckley and =0ADick Cavett, show the author's progression fr= om sexual politics in the '40s and =0A'50s to the 'politics of ecstasy' in = the '60s and '70s, when he founded the =0AFlower Power movement with Tim Le= ary, and later, Naropa Univeristy. Ample =0Afootage of Ginsberg's stepmothe= r provides a sensitive outsider's opinion on how =0Ahe blossomed into one o= f the most spontaneous minds of the century. The film =0Atranscends simple = Ginsberg descriptions by framing his life with historical =0Ahappenings to = contextualize the author's words and actions. The Life and Times =0Aof Alle= n Ginsberg reminds the viewer that there is no better example of an =0Aarti= st devoted to a life of letters, activism, and idealism than the original = =0Abeatnik... Following the screening, there will be a talk-back with direc= tor =0AJerry Aronson...Door proceeds to benefit The Actors Fund for HOWL! H= ELP.=0AAdvance Tickets: http://www.brownpapertickets.com/event/124543=0A = =0AFriday Sept 10th Tompkins Square Park South Stage 5pm to 7pm FREE !=0ATh= e HOWL ! Festival in the Park begins with the Allen Ginsberg Poetry Reading= : =0Afeaturing poets Anne Waldman with Ambrose Bye, John Giorno, hosted by = Bob Holman =0Awith readings by Betsy Andrews, Jennifer Blowdryer, Ana Bozic= evic, Guillermo =0ACastro, Steve Dalachinsky, Thomas Fucaluro, Daniel Gall= ant, Alan Gilbert, Amy =0AKing, Mariposa, Douglas A. Martin, Angelo Nikolop= oulos, Amy Ouzunian, Meghann =0APlunkett, Jon Sands, Susan Scotti, Jean An= n Verlee, Michael Warr, Chavisa =0AWoods, Advocate of Wordz, Ra ARA ya and = a group reading of Allen Ginsberg=E2=80=99s poem =0AHOWL.=0A =0A =0A =0ASat= urday Sept 11th Tompkins Square Park Stage 11am to 7pm FREE !=0APoets in th= e Park : Poets Bill Kushner, Kristin Prevallet, Eileen Myles, =0AEmmanuel X= avier, and Dorothy Lasky will read throughout the day.=0ATyler Burba=E2=80= =99s band: Visit, a band greatly inspired by Allen Ginsberg's life and =0Aw= orks, will be paying tribute to Ginsberg's lesser-known musical side by =0A= performing songs off his album First Blues as well as songs featured on the= =0Aboxset Holy Soul Jelly Roll ("Airplane Blues," "Vomit Express," "Gospel= Noble =0ATruths"). The band will perform songs of William Blake's that Gin= sberg tuned =0A("Infant Joy," "The Echoing Green," "The Sick Rose"), as wel= l as original songs =0Athat were inspired by Ginsberg's work.=0AMore info: = www.visit-music.net=0AGo to www.howlfestival.com see the calendar for comp= lete schedule of days =0Aevents.=0A =0ASaturday Sept 11th and Sunday Sept 1= 2th Theatre 80 St. Marks:=0A80 Saint Marks Place: 8pm to 9:30pm $10.00=0AAl= l-Male OEDIPUS REX=0AA vibrant rendition of the ancient Greek classic, The = Faux-Real Theatre Company =0Ain conjunction with Verse Theater Manhattan pr= esents an all-male OEDIPUS REX, =0A'exactly as Sophocles intended it!' With= a cast of 12 utilizing the performance =0Atechniques of the ancient Greeks= , Faux-Real presents a 'traditional' rendition =0Aof Sophocles=E2=80=99 OED= IPUS REX that says 'what was considered traditional 2400 years =0Aago is of= f-the-hook today.' Incorporating the colorful aesthetic of these =0Aancient= performances and utilizing a broad physical style of acting powered by =0A= live music, songs and dancing, ALL-MALE OEDIPUS REX looks beyond the 'fate = =0Aversus free will' interpretations of this classic, to explore the alluri= ng =0Aunderbelly of this primal text. Their heightened approach reveals wha= t is =0Aterrifying and vital in this most tragic of tragedies, enhancing th= e story=E2=80=99s =0Apower to roil our subconscious and awaken the heroes w= ithin. Founding Artistic =0ADirector of The Faux-Real Theatre Company, Mark= Greenfield has created such =0Ashows as FUNBOX Times Square, William Shake= speare=E2=80=99s Haunted House and Htebcam (A =0ABackwards Re-working of Ma= cbeth). In addition to his work with Faux-Real, Mark =0Awas a writer for th= e Drew Barrymore film Whip It, and the lead actor in the Amir =0ANaderi fil= m VEGAS: Based on a True Story (to be released this fall). Greenfield =0Ato= ured the country for two-years with IMAGO the Theatre Mask Ensemble, and he= =0Aplayed Arlecchino for five-years with the Southern Italian Commedia del= l=E2=80=99Arte =0Acompany I Giullari Di Piazza. Door proceeds to benefit Th= e Actors Fund for HOWL! =0AHELP.=0AMore Information: http://www.fauxreal.or= g=0AAdvance Tickets: http://www.brownpapertickets.com/event/124635=0A=0A = =0AMonday, Sep 13 Theatre 80 St. Marks: 80 Saint Marks Place 8pm -10:30pm $= 10.00=0ARegie Cabico=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cthat bird looks like 2 mustaches ki= ssing=E2=80=9D=0AA queer multidisciplinary exploration of love, marriage an= d gender, curated and =0Ahosted by spoken word pioneer and comedian Regie C= abico. With film director and =0Amonologuist Silas Howard, performance arti= st Heather Arc and others... Regie =0ACabico is a spoken word pioneer havin= g won the Nuyorican Poets Cafe Grand Slam =0Aand is the first openly queer = and Asian American performer to take top prizes in =0Athe National Poetry S= lam. Television credits include 2 seasons of HBO=E2=80=99s Def =0APoetry Ja= m. He is the recipient of three New York Innovative Theater Award =0ANomina= tions for his work in the New York Company of TOO MUCH LIGHT MAKES THE =0AB= ABY GO BLIND, with an award for Best Performance Art Production. The Kenyon= =0AReview recently named him 'The Lady Gaga of Poetry' and Bust Magazine n= amed him =0Ain the 100 Men We Love... Door proceeds to benefit The Actors F= und for HOWL! =0AHELP.=0AAdvance Tickets: http://www.brownpapertickets.com/= event/124644=0A=0A =0AThursday, Sep 16 Saint Marks Church In-The-Bowery,= =0A131 East 10th Street (at Second Avenue) 8 pm - 10 pm $8.00=0AThe Howl! A= rts Project 2010 Presents: POETRY TURN ON !=0APoets Thomas Fucaloro, Meghan= n Plunkett, Jon Sands, Jeanann Verlee, Michael Warr =0Aof The Bowery Poetry= Club, poets Steve Cannon , Steve Dalachinsky, Amy =0AOuzoonian, Susan Scut= ti, Chavisa Woods, RA ARA ya of A Gathering of the Tribes, =0Apoets Daniel = Gallant, Vanessa Hidary, Mariposa, Advocate of Wordz of Nuyorican =0APoets = Cafe, and poets Julian Brolaski, Joanna Fuhrman, Paolo Javier, Dorothea =0A= Lasky of The Poetry Project come together one night only to share their poe= ms =0Awith you... Hosted by Nathaniel Siegel to benefit HOWL! H.E.L.P.=0AAd= vance Tickets: http://www.brownpapertickets.com/event/124975=0A =0A =0ASatu= rday, Sept 18th and Sunday Sept 19th Theatre 80 St. Marks:=0A80 Saint Mark= s Place 2pm - 3:15pm $5.00=0AURBAN WORD: VERBAL FIRE =0AUrban Word mentor = Regie Cabico and Executive Director Michael Cirelli curate and =0Ahost a sp= oken word showcase by New York=E2=80=99s young poets and their mentors who = have =0Ataken top prizes at Brave New Voices International Youth Poetry Sla= m =0Acompetition, Speak Green at Sundance Film Festival, and the National P= oetry =0ASlam. See why they are the current reigning champions on HBO=E2=80= =99s Brave New Voices =0Adocumentary... Regie Cabico is a spoken word pione= er having won the Nuyorican =0APoets Cafe Grand Slam and is the first openl= y queer and Asian American performer =0Ato take top prizes in the National = Poetry Slam. Television credits include 2 =0Aseasons of HBO=E2=80=99s Def P= oetry Jam. He is the recipient of three New York =0AInnovative Theater Awar= d Nominations for his work in the New York Company of TOO =0AMUCH LIGHT MAK= ES THE BABY GO BLIND, with an award for Best Performance Art =0AProduction.= The Kenyon Review recently named him 'The Lady Gaga of Poetry' and =0ABust= Magazine named him in the 100 Men We Love... Michael Cirelli is the =0AExe= cutive Director of Urban Word NYC, a grassroots non-profit organization tha= t =0Aprovides free, safe, uncensored and ongoing writing and performance = =0Aopportunities for NYC teens. He is also the director of the Annual Spoke= n Word & =0AHip-Hop Teacher & Community Leader Training Institute at the Un= iversity of =0AWisconsin that won the 2007 North American Association of Su= mmer Sessions =0A'Creative and Innovative Program Award.' He is the author = of the award-winning =0Ateaching guide, 'Hip-Hop Poetry & the Classics' (Mi= lk Mug, 2004), a =0Astandards-based curriculum that explores the relationsh= ip between hip-hop lyrics =0Aand 'classic' poems. He is currently working o= n two other curricula utilizing =0Ahip-hop to engage students. His collecti= on of poetry, 'Lobster with Ol=E2=80=99 Dirty =0ABastard' (Hanging Loose, 2= 008) was a NY Times Book Review independent press best =0Aseller, and his n= ext book, 'Vacations on the Black Star Line' (Hanging Loose, =0A2009) is fo= rthcoming. Along with teaching writing workshops and performing =0Aacross t= he country, he was previously the director of PEN Center West=E2=80=99s 'Po= et in =0Athe Classroom Program.' He was featured on season 5 of Russell Sim= mons' Def =0APoetry... Founded on the belief that teenagers can and must sp= eak for =0Athemselves, Urban Word NYC=E2=84=A2 (UW) has been at the forefro= nt of the youth spoken =0Aword, poetry and hip-hop movements in New York Ci= ty since 1999. Door proceeds to =0Abenefit The Actors Fund for HOWL! HELP.= =0AMore Information: http://www.urbanwordnyc.org/uwnyc/index.php?q=3DAbout= =0AAdvance Tickets: http://www.brownpapertickets.com/event/124662=0A =0ATha= nk you for your support of this year=E2=80=99s HOWL ! Festival and HOWL ! A= RTS =0AProject to benefit HOWL ! H.E.L.P !=0A =0APeace and love,=0A =0ANath= aniel A. Siegel=0AHOWL ! Festival=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A=0A-- =0A*********=0ANo= w That's WAC=0A+ http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html=0A= =0ANepotism?=0A+ http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-= to-do-these-things.html=0A=0A=0A=0AAmy's Alias=0A+ http://amyking.org/ =0A*= *******=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 12:55:52 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: RICHARD BRAUTIGAN Urchin Reading In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Urchin? Yes. Brautigan's origins as a kid were those of a Depression era di= rt scraping for whatever he could find & value genuine urchin. But he also = grew to be 6' 4" - not exactly an urchin look!=A0 But, in my memory, he alw= ays lookt physically stark, frail - a scarecrow with the poetry of a sweeth= eart.=20 I suspect he would love the idea of Conrad & Co. putting his poems up in th= e air for free. In San Francisco circa 1967, he liked to give broadsides of= his poems away gratis on the street.=20 Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Among much else, currently featuring a Paris sidewalk 'dare to fashion' pho= to of Kenny Goldsmith, Cole Swensen, Abgygail Lang, and a mysterioso.=20 --- On Tue, 8/24/10, CA Conrad wrote: From: CA Conrad Subject: RICHARD BRAUTIGAN Urchin Reading To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Tuesday, August 24, 2010, 11:34 AM RICHARD BRAUTIGAN Urchin Reading on 9/9/10 all details here:=A0 http://UrchinPoetry.blogspot.com SEE YOU THERE! CAConrad --=20 PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:49:49 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: cris cheek Subject: Re: AGAINST BIG OIL In-Reply-To: <041e01cb43b1$43f28230$6401a8c0@LENOVOB39742E2> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit is there a move in favor of "little oil" and if so what is that?? On Aug 24, 2010, at 1:24 PM, Michael wrote: > > Against Big Oil benefit performance for the Louisiana Bucket > Brigade at Rancho Parnassus, 132 Sixth Street (between Natomas and > Minna St.) in San Francisco on the 27th of August, 8-11pm. > > Musicians, poets and artists: Michael Rothenberg and Terri Carrion > of the poetry/music ensemble Rockpile; Jack Hirschman and Agneta > Falk Hirschman; Dana Alberts of the band Minus One; performance > poetic eruptions of David Magdalene and Judy Irwin (on > synthesizer); the eco-eroticism of La Tigresa and the Tongues of > Flame; Marc Kockinos, Chrissy Moore, Arthur Sheridan, Josh Boylan, > Dee Allen, Geoffrey Todd Lake, Daniel Michael McKenzie, Bethany > Rose and Pablo Rosales. > > > $5 donation no one turned away. > > > For more info call Carl Macki at 415 596 5264. Thanks. > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ > welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:06:53 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Al Filreis Subject: PoemTalk #35: Bruce Andrews Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Today we are releasing the 35th episode of the PoemTalk series. This is a 25-minute audio podcast program, a discussion of Bruce Andrews's "Center" from Moebius. The PoemTalkers this time are Tan Lin, Sarah Dowling, and Chris Funkhouser. http://www.poemtalk.org http://www.poetryfoundation.org/journal/audioitem.html?id=2616 PoemTalk is a co-production of the Center for Programs in Contemporary Writing, the Kelly Writers House, and the Poetry Foundation. Next time on PoemTalk, we are on the road, in Chicago, talking with three Chicagoans about Jennifer Scappettone's rewriting of H.D. - Al Filreis Al Filreis Kelly Professor Faculty Dir., Kelly Writers House Dir., Center for Programs in Contemporary Writing University of Pennsylvania http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis Al Filreis Kelly Professor Faculty Dir., Kelly Writers House Dir., Center for Programs in Contemporary Writing University of Pennsylvania ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 00:13:33 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: Interview with Sheila E. Murphy at The Argotist Online Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc , Wryting-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interview with Sheila E. Murphy at The Argotist Online: http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Murphy%20interview.htm ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 13:52:54 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Christophe Casamassima Subject: Furniture Press Poetry Prize - Last Week to Enter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, everyone, The FPPP ends on August 31, 2010. If you'd still like to enter, please see the following link: http://furniturepressbooks.com/furniture-press-poetry-prize/ --- Furniture Press Poetry Prize 2nd Annual Furniture Press Poetry Prize Deadline: August 31, 2010 Judge: M. Magnus, author of Verb Sap (Narrow House, 2008), and the forthcoming Heraclitean Pride (Furniture Press, 2010). Winner of the 2009 Furniture Press Poetry Prize: Emily Carr=92s Directions for Flying: Right Side Lower Arms Raise Arms Bend Knees Repeat on Left (36 Fits: A Young Wife=92s Almanac). The 2nd annual Furniture Press Poetry Prize will be awarded to the writer that best exemplifies the poetics and particularities of Furniture Press=92 editors and judges. One judge will be invited to determine a manuscript=92s =93pressability=94 and will work with anonymous, unidentified texts. Only the editor of Furniture Press will know the true identity of the applicants and their work. Each text will be assigned a number and distributed to the judge. After the first round of readings, the judge will assign a winner. The winner of the Prize will receive a publishing contract in which the winning manuscript will be published as a trade paperback. S/he will also receive 20 copies of his/her book. All applicants will receive a copy of the winning title. Please follow these guidelines when submitting an application: 1. Send 1 unpublished manuscript per entry. It must be between 50 and 80 pages of poetry and/or its derivatives. Include a cover letter with your name, address, eMail and short bio. Do not put your name or the title of your submission on the pages of the manuscript. 2. Send a $10 fee per manuscript submitted. 100% of the cash goes to the pressing, publishing and promotion of the winning books. Editors and judges do not get kickbacks. Please send checks or money orders only, made out to Furniture Press. 2a. You can send a $10 fee by choosing =93Pay Now=94 below. Remember to add your name and manuscript title to the =93Special Instructions=94 box when ordering. If you do not add this information, we cannot verify that you paid the fee! 3. Send manuscripts to Furniture Press Poetry Prize c/o Towson Arts Collective, 406 York Road (lower level), Towson, MD 21204. The manuscripts may also be sent electronically to furniture.press.books@gmail.com. Please use the following format in your subject line: FPPP submission, [author name], [title]. Also, please let us know when the $10 fee was sent so we may match it with the submission. We strongly encourage you to send us work =96 it=92s also a very good way to catch the attention of the editors who may want to publish your work in the future, despite whether or not you win the prize. Plus you get copies of the winning book (hopefully yours!) plus chapbooks and ephemera from our past catalogues. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 11:19:28 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Fw: Poets for Living Waters in Poets & Writers Comments: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Poets and Writers Magazine --- latest --- http://www.pw.org/content/poets_act_on_oil_spill Best, Amy -- ********* Now That's WAC + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html Nepotism? + http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-things.html Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 14:43:48 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Some readers read Bill Knott Comments: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii More here -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/amyking/sets/72157624682880241/ Cheers, Amy p.s. Marc Weiss ... -- ********* Now That's WAC + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html Nepotism? + http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-things.html Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 11:19:27 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "(Plus show up, eh? People are coming in from ou=". Rest of header flushed. From: Cara Benson Subject: Reminder: Yes! Reading Thurs Albany, NY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please post and forward! =0A(Plus show up, eh? People are coming in from ou= t of town to read for us. Albany, =0Arepresent!)=0A=0AYes! Reading series l= aunches fall/winter season with 3 stellar poets...=0A=0ASarah Giragosian, J= ennifer Karmin, Maryrose Larkin: Yes!=0AThursday, August 26 @ 7:30pm=0ASoci= al Justice Center =0A33 Central Avenue=0AAlbany, NY=0A=C2=A0=0ASarah Girago= sian earned an MFA in poetry from Boston University. She has =0Ainterned as= an assistant editor at Boston Review and recently had the =0Aopportunity t= o assist Professor Robert Shaw with editing his text, Blank Verse: =0AA Gui= de to its History and Use, published through Ohio University Press. Her =0A= work has appeared in The New York Times. She is a PhD candidate at SUNY Alb= any.=0A=0AJennifer Karmin=E2=80=99s text-sound epic, Aaaaaaaaaaalice,...was= published by Flim =0AForum Press in 2010. She curates the Red Rover Series= and is co-founder of the =0Apublic art group Anti Gravity Surprise. Her mu= ltidisciplinary projects have been =0A=0Apresented at festivals, artist-run= spaces, community centers, and on city =0Astreets across the U.S., Japan, = and Kenya. A proud member of the Dusie =0AKollektiv, she is the author of t= he Dusie chapbook Evacuated: Disembodying =0AKatrina. Walking Poem, a colla= borative street project, is featured online at =0AHow2. In Chicago, Jennife= r teaches creative writing to immigrants at Truman =0ACollege and works as = a Poet-in-Residence for the public schools.=0A=0AMaryrose Larkin lives in P= ortland, Oregon, where she works as a freelance =0Aresearcher. She is the a= uthor of Inverse (nine muses books, 2006), Whimsy =0ADaybook 2007 (FLASH+CA= RD, 2006), The Book of Ocean (i.e. press, 2007) and DARC =0A(FLASH+CARD, 20= 09. Larkin is one of the organizsers of Spare Room, a =0APortland-based wri= ting collective, and is co-editor, with Sarah Mangold, of =0AFLASH+CARD, a = chapbook and ephemera poetry press. Her new book, The Name of This =0A=0AIn= tersection is Frost, is forthcoming from Shearsman Books.=0A=C2=A0=0Ahttp:/= /yesreading.wordpress.com/=C2=A0or =0Ahttp://www.facebook.com/profile.php?i= d=3D560292797#!/event.php?eid=3D126473417399159&ref=3Dmf=0A=0A=C2=A0=0AYou = can't so no to yes.=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 13:20:37 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: AGAINST BIG OIL In-Reply-To: <265299FA-0B8C-4AAD-AEB7-37099A9A9149@muohio.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 At the cooperative (http://organicvalley.coop) I work at we are encouraging a lot of farmers to grow sunflowers, hazelnuts or switchgrass & produce their own bio-fuels on site. No mega-corporations, endangered environment, policy wonks, graft, militarization of third world countries needed. ~mIEKAL On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 3:49 PM, cris cheek wrote: > is there a move in favor of "little oil" and if so what is that?? > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 14:47:09 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: AGAINST BIG OIL In-Reply-To: <265299FA-0B8C-4AAD-AEB7-37099A9A9149@muohio.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Extra virgin? At 04:49 PM 8/24/2010, you wrote: >is there a move in favor of "little oil" and if so what is that?? > > >On Aug 24, 2010, at 1:24 PM, Michael wrote: > >> >>Against Big Oil benefit performance for the Louisiana Bucket >>Brigade at Rancho Parnassus, 132 Sixth Street (between Natomas and >>Minna St.) in San Francisco on the 27th of August, 8-11pm. >> >>Musicians, poets and artists: Michael Rothenberg and Terri Carrion >>of the poetry/music ensemble Rockpile; Jack Hirschman and Agneta >>Falk Hirschman; Dana Alberts of the band Minus One; performance >>poetic eruptions of David Magdalene and Judy Irwin (on >>synthesizer); the eco-eroticism of La Tigresa and the Tongues of >>Flame; Marc Kockinos, Chrissy Moore, Arthur Sheridan, Josh Boylan, >>Dee Allen, Geoffrey Todd Lake, Daniel Michael McKenzie, Bethany >>Rose and Pablo Rosales. >> >> >>$5 donation no one turned away. >> >> >>For more info call Carl Macki at 415 596 5264. Thanks. >> >>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ welcome.html > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept=20 >all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 >http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a=20 lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the=20 poet alive in every sense of the word, and=20 through every one of his senses. Instead of=20 missing a beat or a part, Weiss=92 fragments are=20 like Chekhov=92s short stories=ADthe more that gets=20 left out, the more they seem to contain=85 One can=20 hear echoes from all the various=20 ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its=20 core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment=20 is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure=20 musical threnody=85[it] opens a window, not only=20 into a mind, but a person, a personality, this=20 human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket.=20 http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 13:54:57 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Fw: Poets for Living Waters in Poets & Writers In-Reply-To: <692606.31611.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yay. you go grrls. amy king wrote: > Poets and Writers Magazine --- latest --- > > http://www.pw.org/content/poets_act_on_oil_spill > > > Best, > > Amy > > > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 15:14:08 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Melnicove Subject: Bern Porter Chronology In-Reply-To: 6C6F8ECD-079A-43CA-80A0-54E106007BA7@writing.upenn.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bern Porter Chronology, 1954-1962, by Bern Porter (typescript from 1960 = and 1962) can now be found at: www.bernporter.com Mark Melnicove Bern Porter Literary Executor =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 12:39:12 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: AGAINST BIG OIL In-Reply-To: <265299FA-0B8C-4AAD-AEB7-37099A9A9149@muohio.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit what an idea mr ford!!! amazing!!! the car and millions of them!!! thank you, yes, it's the way to go. it's great, just great, except it ends up destroying the planet. what? destroying the planet? how could it? the chemical burning process of the fuel pollutes the atmosphere and wars are fought for possession of oil resources and even though we come to realize that oil is destroying the planet, the massive global engines of industry depend on it and will not relinquish their dependence on it. i couldn't possibly know that. ja http://vispo.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 14:46:01 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Millicent Subject: Re: Poets for Living Waters in Poets & Writers In-Reply-To: <692606.31611.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" It is a beautiful site and I am very proud to be a part of it! Thanks for= posting the link. Millicent Borges Accardi=20 -----Original Message----- From: amy king To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Wed, Aug 25, 2010 1:19 pm Subject: Fw: Poets for Living Waters in Poets & Writers Poets and Writers Magazine --- latest --- http://www.pw.org/content/poets_act_on_oil_spill est, Amy --=20 ******** ow That's WAC http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html Nepotism? http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-thi= ngs.html Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/=20 ******* =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D he Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= &=20 ub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 17:02:07 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Re: Fw: Poets for Living Waters in Poets & Writers In-Reply-To: <4C756701.2010808@umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks, Millicent and Maria! ----- Original Message ---- From: Maria Damon yay. you go grrls. amy king wrote: > Poets and Writers Magazine --- latest --- > http://www.pw.org/content/poets_act_on_oil_spill ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:56:07 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Michael Carr Subject: Acting Out by Alli Warren In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Please see the announcement below. Michael Carr ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Editions Louis Wain Date: Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 8:00 PM Subject: Acting Out by Alli Warren To: editionslouiswain@gmail.com Editions Louis Wain is pleased to announce the availability of a new chapbook: Acting Out by Alli Warren 28 pgs, saddle-stapled Cover art by Matthew Arnone $6 For a sample from this book, and to purchase it through Paypal, please visit the site: http://editionslouiswain.com/books/ --------------------------------------------------------- Also available from Editions Louis Wain: - Succubus Blues by Jim Behrle - Roseland by Dana Ward - Necco Face by Michael Carr, Jess Mynes, & Aaron Tieger - The Collected Typos of Aaron Tieger *Special Offer* -- get all five ELW publications for $22, see the site for details. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 10:09:42 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: cris cheek Subject: Re: AGAINST BIG OIL In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit so JIm, what forms of transport have you used during the past five years?? and if you're really in such a retro-eco frame of mind, why do you use the internet?? xx cc On Aug 25, 2010, at 3:39 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: > what an idea mr ford!!! amazing!!! > the car and millions of them!!! > > thank you, yes, it's the way to go. > > it's great, just great, except it ends up destroying the planet. > > what? destroying the planet? how could it? > > the chemical burning process of the fuel pollutes the atmosphere > and wars > are fought for possession of oil resources and even though we come to > realize that oil is destroying the planet, the massive global > engines of > industry depend on it and will not relinquish their dependence on it. > > i couldn't possibly know that. > > ja > http://vispo.com > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ > welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 18:11:25 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Some readers read Bill Knott In-Reply-To: <819352.8965.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Who's the fat old dude with the sute chick? Oh, that's me! Can you send it to me as an attachment? I don't=20 know how to capture an image from Flickr. At 05:43 PM 8/25/2010, you wrote: >More here -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/amyking/sets/72157624682880241/ > >Cheers, > >Amy > > >p.s. Marc Weiss ... > > > >-- >********* >Now That's WAC >+ http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html > >Nepotism? >+=20 >http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-thing= s.html > > > >Amy's Alias >+ http://amyking.org/ >******** > > > > > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept=20 >all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 >http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a=20 lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the=20 poet alive in every sense of the word, and=20 through every one of his senses. Instead of=20 missing a beat or a part, Weiss=92 fragments are=20 like Chekhov=92s short stories=ADthe more that gets=20 left out, the more they seem to contain=85 One can=20 hear echoes from all the various=20 ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its=20 core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment=20 is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure=20 musical threnody=85[it] opens a window, not only=20 into a mind, but a person, a personality, this=20 human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket.=20 http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 18:13:02 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: AGAINST BIG OIL In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What he really would have said is "it's the Jews' fault." At 03:39 PM 8/25/2010, you wrote: >what an idea mr ford!!! amazing!!! >the car and millions of them!!! > >thank you, yes, it's the way to go. > >it's great, just great, except it ends up destroying the planet. > >what? destroying the planet? how could it? > >the chemical burning process of the fuel=20 >pollutes the atmosphere and wars are fought for=20 >possession of oil resources and even though we=20 >come to realize that oil is destroying the=20 >planet, the massive global engines of industry=20 >depend on it and will not relinquish their dependence on it. > >i couldn't possibly know that. > >ja >http://vispo.com >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept=20 >all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 >http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a=20 lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the=20 poet alive in every sense of the word, and=20 through every one of his senses. Instead of=20 missing a beat or a part, Weiss=92 fragments are=20 like Chekhov=92s short stories=ADthe more that gets=20 left out, the more they seem to contain=85 One can=20 hear echoes from all the various=20 ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its=20 core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment=20 is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure=20 musical threnody=85[it] opens a window, not only=20 into a mind, but a person, a personality, this=20 human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket.=20 http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 18:35:16 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: Re: AGAINST BIG OIL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit just saw a film about nazis and an unfished film about warsaw ghetto they made for propaganda purposes - talk about destroying the planet what's a bit of gas here or there On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 12:39:12 -0700 Jim Andrews writes: > what an idea mr ford!!! amazing!!! > the car and millions of them!!! > > thank you, yes, it's the way to go. > > it's great, just great, except it ends up destroying the planet. > > what? destroying the planet? how could it? > > the chemical burning process of the fuel pollutes the atmosphere and > wars > are fought for possession of oil resources and even though we come > to > realize that oil is destroying the planet, the massive global > engines of > industry depend on it and will not relinquish their dependence on > it. > > i couldn't possibly know that. > > ja > http://vispo.com > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:06:33 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: mIEKAL aND Subject: email for Clark Coolidge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 apologies for sending to the list does anyone have an email for Clark Coolidge? ~mIEKAL ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 17:58:37 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Geoffrey Gatza's SECRETS OF MY PRISON HOUSE --- Now Available! Comments: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Geoffrey Gatza’s poems go straight to the point= NOW AVAILABLE!=0A=0AGeoffrey Gatza=E2=80=99s poems go straight to the point= . From one to another the plane =0Ais consistent, the tone both literate an= d congenial; the feeling, one of an =0Aassessment of options while moving t= hrough choice to definition, a =0Adefinition-in-progress of how to be, allo= wing large time outs for horseplay, an =0Ainventory of asides that end up o= ccupying large chunks of mind. The book as =0Aethos =E2=80=93 you can live = with it -- you wish =E2=80=93 why not?=0A=0A=E2=80=94Bill Berkson=0A=0A=0A= =0A=0APoetry expects poets to do their duty, writes Geoffrey Gatza in "Temp= us Fidget". =0A=0A=0AGG certainly does his duty by us, poetry readers. In s= o many ways. His vast =0Apublishing energy, so much to be grateful for. And= in these pages you will find =0Aunmistakable evidence of a perhaps even gr= eater benison: many terrific original =0Aworks. This is one of the brightes= t new voices in poetry today. =0A=0ASecrets of My Prison House is a consist= ently exciting, nervy collection of =0Amind-moment-heart-truths that will s= lip inside you and unpredictably grow. A =0AGatza poem inscribes (as the gr= eat cover photo promises) the tears of a clown =0Awandering in the city. Vi= vidly and freely colored by the golden crayon of =0Achoices, the poems like= a clown's tears may enter your busy day for a while and =0Aquickly enough = wash away. But not from the whacky inner sanctum of feeling. And =0Aonly un= til night falls.=0A=0ASteel is heavy, steel is art.=0A=0AI'd rather speak t= o the cat.=0A=0AYes, and yes.=0A=0A=0A=E2=80=94Tom Clark=0A=0A=0A=0A =0AInv= entions. I want to say that Gatza=E2=80=99s poetic inventions get inside my= mind and =0Achange it, =E2=80=9Cstopoped=E2=80=9D in this uncomfortable er= a where elegance is mismatched =0Awith a kind of directness that zeros in a= nd rockets. Inventions that make one =0Athink twice and look again. =E2=80= =9CWell strike me up a gum tree.=E2=80=9D=0A=0A=E2=80=94Hoa Nguyen=0A =0A= =0A=0A@ BLAZEVOX BOOKS -- http://www.blazevox.org/bk-ggatza.htm =0A=0A=0A= =0ABook Information:=0A=C2=B7 Paperback: 100 pages=0A=C2=B7 Binding: Perfec= t-Bound=0A=C2=B7 Publisher: BlazeVOX [books] =0A=C2=B7 ISBN: 978-1-60964-00= 0-2=0A=0A=0A=0AGeoffrey Gatza is the editor and Publisher of BlazeVOX [book= s] and the =0Aauthor of eight books of poetry; Secrets of my Prison House w= ill be out in the =0AFall of 2010. Kenmore: Poem Unlimited and Not So Fast = Robespierre are now =0Aavailable from Menendez Publishing. HouseCat Kung Fu= : Strange Poems for Wild =0AChildren is also available from Meritage Press.= He lives in Buffalo, NY with his =0A=0Agirlfriend and two cats.=0A=0Ahttp:= //www.geoffreygatza.com/ =0Ahttp://www.blazevox.org=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A= =0A********=0ANow That's WAC=0A+ http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08= /amy-king.html=0A=0A=0AAmy's Alias=0A+ http://amyking.org/ =0A********=0A= =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:23:32 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Drew McKevitt Subject: Vallum call for submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Vallum 8:1 "Futures" call for submissions / www.vallummag.com We plunge forward, often with our eyes closed, not knowing what is in store for us. Realities unfold, dreams are realized or fail to materialize. Many possible futures are on the verge of happening. What do we have to say about the time that has yet to come, the Future(s) of this world? ALSO: Special Section on "Found" and "Overheard" Poems. Audio files, visual art, reviews, essays or poet interviews can be submitted by email. Poetry must be submitted by regular mail. DEADLINE: October 1, 2010 Please mail all poetry submissions to: Vallum PO BOX 598, Victoria Station Montreal, QC H3Z 2Y6 CANADA ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 10:02:25 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: TONIGHT - FRIDAY -- Julie Doxsee, Curtis Jensen, Jennifer Karmin, Eric Lindley, Ben Mirov and Peter Spagnuolo! Comments: To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, pussipo@googlegroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable August 27, Friday ~ Julie Doxsee, Curtis Stain of Poetry presents:August 27= , Friday ~ Julie Doxsee, Curtis Jensen, Jennifer Karmin, Eric Lindley, Ben = Mirov and Peter Spagnuolo!7 PM @ Goodbye Blue Monday =C3=83=C2=83=C3=82=C2= =A2=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=80=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=93 Bushwick, BrooklynwithJ= ulie Doxsee holds a PhD from the Unersity of Denver and is theauthor of Obj= ects for a Fog Death (Black Ocean 2010) and Undersleep(Octopus Books 2008).= She teaches creative writing, literature, andacademic writing at Koc Univ= ersity in Istanbul, Turkey, where shelives on the European side of the Bosp= horus.~Curtis Jensen works and studies in Brooklyn, but he=C3=83=C2=A2=C3= =82=C2=80=C3=82=C2=99d rather besomewhere else. He maintains a blog at thee= ndofwaste.blogspot.com~Jennifer Karmin=C3=83=C2=A2=C3=82=C2=80=C3=82=C2=99s= text-sound epic, Aaaaaaaaaaalice, was published byFlim Forum Press in 2010= . She curates the Red Rover Series and isco-founder of the public art group= Anti Gravity Surprise. Hermultidisciplinary projects have been presented = at festivals,artist-run spaces, community centers, and on city streets across= theU.S., Japan, and Kenya. A proud member of the Dusie Kollektiv, she isth= e author of the Dusie chapbook Evacuated: Disembodying Katrina.Walking Poem= , a collaborative street project, is featured online atHow2. At home in Chi= cago, Jennifer teaches creative writing toimmigrants at Truman Colleworks a= s a Poet-in-Residence for thepublic schools.~Eric Lindley is a bi-coastal a= rtist/researcher/teacher, living with afoot in New York and a foot in Los A= ngeles. His work, ranging fromcritical/creative cross-genre writing, to bio= feedback installation, tofluxus-style event scores, puppet-musicals, digita= l photography,experimentally-based research in cognitive linguistics, andel= ectro-folk music, has appeared in/at: Eoagh, Antennae, Joyland, TheSanta Mo= nica Museum of Art, the CUNY graduate galleries, TelicGallery, the Veleslav= asay Panorama, Machine Project, REDCAT, theKnitting Factory, the Juliard School of Music, Pianos, the Smell, TheRoyal College of Music (UK)= , STEIM (Netherlands), and many otherplaces that his body has occupied at o= ne point or another. He hasrecently finished a book-length set of narrative= , semi-fictionalprose-poems, as well as two full-length albums of electroni= c folkmusic=C3=A2=C2=80=C2=94the second as =C3=A2=C2=80=C2=9CCareful,=C3=A2= =C2=80=C2=9D to be released March, 2010. Pleaseconsider submitting to his l= ovinge-and-soon-to-be-print literary journal, [out of nothing].~Ben Mirov i= s the author of I IS TO VORTICISM (New Michigan Press,2010) and GHOST MACHI= NE (Cakerain, 2010). He is poetry editor of LITMagazine and general editor = of pax americana. He lives in Brooklyn.~Peter Spagnuolo is the author of th= e letterpress chapbooks ASquatter=E2=80=99s Midden and Ten by Fourteen, as = well as Egg and Dart (2010).He lives in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, where his vic= es have wrestled hisvirtues to a draw.atGoodbye Blue Monday1087 Broadway(co= rner of Dodworth St)Brooklyn, NY 11221-3013 (718) 453-6343J M Z trains to Myrtle Aveor J train to Kosciusko= St~Hosted by Steven Karl, Erika Moya, and Christie Ann Reynoldswww.stainof= poetry.com********Now That's WAC+ http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08= /amy-king.htmlAmy's Alias+ http://amyking.org/ ********=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 20:29:37 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: George Bowering Subject: Re: email for Clark Coolidge In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Clark doesnt do computer. You have to write him by regular mail. gb On Aug 26, 2010, at 9:06 AM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > apologies for sending to the list > > does anyone have an email for Clark Coolidge? > > ~mIEKAL > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ > welcome.html George Bowering I'll take meatloaf ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 20:35:26 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: AGAINST BIG OIL In-Reply-To: <0EF51992-FB27-486D-917D-05B853AA58B0@muohio.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > so JIm, > > what forms of transport have you used during the past five years?? plane train automobile bike shank's mare poetry. > and if you're really in such a retro-eco frame of mind, why do you use > the internet?? because the internet is the only place to talk with progressive people who say computers are to blame for the economic collapse and computer art is fascistic. kidding aside, our engineers need to consider eco systems when building engine systems, and i think we're all sick of billionaire oil idiots running the world into the ground and politician stooges like george w bush catering to their desires at the expense of the environment. it seems fairly obvious by now, doesn't it, that the engines of industry (and our cars and so on) are going to have to burn things like hydrogen, the byproduct of which is water, rather than petroleum. and the same goes for the engines that make those engines. ja http://vispo.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 08:15:37 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Paul Nelson Subject: A typical Billy Collins MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii fan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVu4Me_n91Y Paul E. Nelson SPLAB! C. City, WA 206.422.5002 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:38:15 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Michael Subject: Antonia Juhasz at B&B on Big Oil and the Gulf Disaster MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Untitled Document Bird & Beckett Books & Records=20 653 Chenery Street in San Francisco's Glen Park neighborhood 415-586-3733 -- www.birdbeckett.com Thursday, Sept. 9 at 7:00 pm The Bird & Beckett Political Book Discussion Group hosts A Talk with Antonia Juhasz director of Global Exchange's Chevron Project and author of The Tyranny of Oil: The World's Most Powerful Industry=20 and What We Must Do To Stop It=20 Antonia will discuss her book and her ongoing research into the = offshore oil spill in the=20 Gulf of Mexico that began with the April 20, 2010 explosion of BP's = "Deepwater Horizon" rig. She has been making frequent trips to the Gulf region=20 and is at work on a new book about the disaster, due to be published in = April 2011. 15 free tickets for reserved seats are available in advance=20 at the bookshop on a first-come, first-served basis. No phone reservations for these tickets, please.=20 Ticket holders must arrive before 6:45 pm the evening of the talk.=20 Please note that seating is very limited.=20 Total capacity is approximately 25 seated, 15 standing.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 18:24:13 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: AGAINST BIG OIL In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Hydrogen is so 20th century. http://www.inhabitat.com/2009/09/09/first-algae-powered-car-attempts-to-cross-us-on-25-gallons/ On Aug 26, 2010, at 10:35 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: > it seems fairly obvious by now, doesn't it, that the engines of > industry (and our cars and so on) are going to have to burn things > like hydrogen, the byproduct of which is water, rather than > petroleum. and the same goes for the engines that make those engines. =!= Data Visualization for the Synaptically Inspired http://filevillage.info ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 06:04:15 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: { brad brace } Subject: Industrial Average In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII "Fines, penalties and reputational damage from non-compliance with anti-corruption laws are accelerating. The global crackdown could put your firm - and you - on the radar of multiple investigators simultaneously. With Dow Jones Anti-Corruption, you efficiently screen third parties, quickly spot potentially risky business relationships and demonstrate your compliance to prosecutors. Detecting risk early saves more than money." http://www.bbrace.net/screen-names.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 15:46:55 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: "The Conspiracy Against Poems" by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "The Conspiracy Against Poems" by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Fieled%20essay%205.htm =20 Excerpts: =E2=80=9CThere is no historical evidence to suggest that during the Romanti= c era, something called =E2=80=9CPoetics=E2=80=9D existed. At the time, Wor= dsworth and Coleridge, both identifiable as =E2=80=9CLake=E2=80=9D poets, i= nitiated investigations of a theoretical nature, centered on poetry. These = investigations were one of Coleridge=E2=80=99s m=C3=A9tiers; Wordsworth rar= ely identified himself as something other than a poet. The controversies th= at surrounded Wordsworth, from the publication of Lyrical Ballads forwards,= were centered jointly on his poems and the theories that buttressed them. = Why is it that in 2010, a majority of poets, particularly those toiling in = experimental milieus, seem both more grounded in and more stimulated by the= ories than by the poems they bolster? What is this nebulous entity, =E2=80= =9Cpoetics,=E2=80=9D and how has it sapped the life out of what it is meant= to serve? The chief weakness of the pursuit of =E2=80=9Cpoetics,=E2=80=9D = as I see it, is that it puts premiums on two red herrings=E2=80=94novelties= and political correctness. =E2=80=9CPoetics,=E2=80=9D as practiced by the = bolder American universities, wants to investigate the newest of the new, a= nything (striated, of course, within the taut bounds of political correctne= ss) that has not been done before. But practicing =E2=80=9Cpoetics=E2=80=9D= creates and perpetuates its own kind of romantic ideology=E2=80=94an unthi= nking and uncritical belief in one=E2=80=99s self-representations as plante= d firmly in the new, fresh, and bold.=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9CPoets weaned on poetics never quite reconcile themselves to the re= ality that poems spun out of flimsy theoretical material cannot have any gr= eat or striking impact, either in the long or the short term. All this move= ment towards theory and concept is mirrored in other art forms; but as the = post-modern impulse ages, it may be seen that when taken to an extreme, as = it has been in experimental poetry, it creates such an aura of rapid obsole= scence around new poetry that one wonders why new poems are being written a= t all.=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9CSimply put, poetics is mainly a construct established and put into= propulsive motion by white, middle-class academics; and as multiculturalis= m has emerged as a subsidiary branch of post-modernism, a sense of guilt mo= ves participants not only towards the outr=C3=A9 but towards anything ethni= c or deviant. The problem with poetics generally is that there is little qu= ality control. The conceit of post-modern poetics is that there is no such = thing as =E2=80=9Cquality=E2=80=9D; quality is a teetering edifice erected = by hegemonic white males to reinforce a master narrative patched up against= invasion.=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9CGenerations are now beginning to emerge who have been weaned on th= ese approaches. The upshot is that poets have been formed who respond to th= eory first, poems second. If poems are a subsidiary branch of theories, the= n poetry as an endeavor has become so bastardized and decadent that it has = ceased to be itself.=E2=80=9D http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Fieled%20essay%205.htm =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:05:14 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: Re: email for Clark Coolidge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit contact ugly duckling presse they are working on a new book fot him have all infoo yes mail or phone On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 20:29:37 -0700 George Bowering writes: > Clark doesnt do computer. > You have to write him by regular mail. > > gb > > > On Aug 26, 2010, at 9:06 AM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > > > apologies for sending to the list > > > > does anyone have an email for Clark Coolidge? > > > > ~mIEKAL > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > > > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ > > welcome.html > > George Bowering > > I'll take meatloaf > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 02:35:04 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jonathan Penton Subject: news at UnlikelyStories.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I’d like to begin this yammering by apologizing for the delay in new free content at www.UnlikelyStories.org. As you probably know, we’ve been working hard on our new line of perfectbound books. I never wanted the free material at UnlikelyStories.org to particularly suffer in favor of these books, but it has, and I want to apologize for that. We intend to put out an issue in mid-September. This year, we’re releasing Tom Bradley’s /My Hands Were Clean /bound together in one volume with Deb Hoag’s /Dr. Gonzo/, Anne McMillen’s /Monolith/ bound together with León De la Rosa’s /Soy solo palabras but wish to be a city/, and /Unlikely Stories of the Third Kind/, a 400-page anthology featuring visual art, a CD, and a DVD intended to be representative of the wide variety of work UnlikelyStories.org has been publishing since 1998. We planned to hold a massive affair at the upcoming Burning Man Festival. Unfortunately, this event has had to be rescheduled due to illness. We apologize to everyone who hoped to see us there, and regret that a clothing-optional book release party is off this year’s plate. However, a new release strategy has been planned. Unlikely Books will be performing at the Bowery Poetry Club in Manhattan on Sunday, November 21^st . We will do four other reads in the week before that performance. We’re tentatively planning on reading in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, Boston, Cape Cod, and one other New York City read. There’s debate as to where the other New York City and the Boston reads should be, and we welcome input. Each show will be different--I mean, of course they will be, we’re all young and brash and sexy but not actually so young as to do five performances in one week--each show will have different contributors to /Unlikely Stories of the Third Kind/. If you are a contributor to /Unlikely Stories of the Third Kind/ or if Unlikely has published a physical chapbook of yours, and you’ll be in the Northeast Corridor the third week of November, write me and let me know; I’d be delighted to put you on a playbill. If you’ve already done that, please be patient--you will hear back. /Unlikely Stories of the Third Kind/ should begin shipping September 7^th --we’ll be boxing ‘em up and singing union songs on Labor Day (well, I know a little Phil Ochs, so that’s close enough). At this time, you can still go to http://shop.makeitnewmedia.com/Unlikely-Books_c3.htm and pre-order copies of /Unlikely Stories of the Third Kind/ to get free shipping on this five-pound book, and frankly, I think you should. I’ll turn off free shipping when I get up on September 7^th . /My Hands Were Clean/Dr. Gonzo/ will begin shipping on September 11^th (well, that’s a Saturday, so probably September 13^th , possibly September 10^th , but you know, in celebration of the founding of the Satyagraha movement). /Monolith/Soy solo palabras but wish to be a city/ will be released on our November mini-tour. If you’re looking for something to read until then, do consider our chapbooks at http://shop.makeitnewmedia.com/Unlikely-Books_c3.htm , or the chapbooks of our buddies at Virgogray press at http://shop.makeitnewmedia.com/Virgogray-Press_c7.htm . Also there are twelve years of archives at http://www.UnlikelyStories.org/ . That’s neat, too. Thanks for bearing with us, and we hope to see you, however modestly-dressed, in November! – Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 22:54:59 +1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Young Subject: Now out from Otoliths =?windows-1252?Q?=97_?= Larry Sawyer's "Unable to Fully California" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Unable to Fully California* Larry Sawyer 128 pages Cover collage by Krista Franklin Otoliths, 2010 ISBN: 978-0-9807651-3-7 $15.95 + p&h URL: http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/unable-to-fully-california/12200921 Also available through Amazon in a week or two The poetry of Larry Sawyer arrives free of any investment in a =93poetics= =94 or worldview and therefore ties its shoes on the run: =93The city is a Smith a= nd Wesson covered in noon.=94 The sublime lies in =93covered in noon,=94 the w= aking world in the Smith and Wesson. So there=92s a spontaneity of composition (anything can happen and does) that reminds us of what Ren=E9 Char was supposed to have been. On first impression, the poems can seem scattershot, like the art works of Niki de Saint Phalle composed by shotgun. Some of the pellets form patterns, some impressions they make are deeper than others, and some even pierce the metal canvas. Because Sawyer=92s style is so open, the casual and intense find comfort in each other and the remarkable detail emerges: =93What horizon / spreads in the distance / muscles ripening?=94 M= uch of this work is therefore fresh and unexpectable, like the final line of hi= s elegy at Char=92s gravesite: =93Quiet snow, gossip over the hero=92s grave.= =94 =97*Paul Hoover* The split infinitive title that is *Unable to Fully California *prompts the question: What in 2010 is most real? Larry Sawyer leads us in response to =93the exotic trigonometry=94 that invokes twirled concepts, blended wines,= plus deliciously intentional mistakes. In this spree of sight and sound, nouns take up residence while collocating in new roles as verbs alive in trans-plantation. The tenor and vehicle of similes yield a vivid array of bleached blond poems that skid across the page. Their x axis is transmuted from horizon line to stars as yet unnamed from which we readers readily infer we=92re not in Kansas anymore. =97*Sheila E. Murphy* I love the clear style, unforced music. It is not so much a strange poetry as the poetry of a stranger, the way Bishop was a Brazilian in Boston and a Bostonian in Brazil. I fell in love with your =93blue fruit=94 and =93inesc= apable tomorrow,=94 also what seems like renunciation not of sentimentality but of clich=E9 =85I like even the quasi-Romantic dislocations here: =93There is a= beauty to ice / only a statue understands.=94 I=92m not a statue, so I only partia= lly understand, but that should be more than enough for Larry Sawyer=92s uncann= y picnic on no grass =85 seemed as real as the Bronx, and I couldn=92t stop thinking: I am so lucky that this poetry is so good. =97*David Shapiro* =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 17:39:15 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: Now out from Otoliths =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=94_?= Larry Sawyer's "Unable to Fully California" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This book should be a lot of fun to read.=20 Mary Kasimor --- On Sun, 8/29/10, Mark Young wrote: From: Mark Young Subject: Now out from Otoliths =E2=80=94 Larry Sawyer's "Unable to Fully C= alifornia" To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 7:54 AM *Unable to Fully California* Larry Sawyer 128 pages Cover collage by Krista Franklin Otoliths, 2010 ISBN: 978-0-9807651-3-7 $15.95 + p&h URL: http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/unable-to-fully-california/12200921 Also available through Amazon in a week or two The poetry of Larry Sawyer arrives free of any investment in a =E2=80=9Cpoe= tics=E2=80=9D or worldview and therefore ties its shoes on the run: =E2=80=9CThe city is a S= mith and Wesson covered in noon.=E2=80=9D The sublime lies in =E2=80=9Ccovered in no= on,=E2=80=9D the waking world in the Smith and Wesson. So there=E2=80=99s a spontaneity of composit= ion (anything can happen and does) that reminds us of what Ren=C3=A9 Char was supposed to have been. On first impression, the poems can seem scattershot, like the art works of Niki de Saint Phalle composed by shotgun. Some of the pellets form patterns, some impressions they make are deeper than others, and some even pierce the metal canvas. Because Sawyer=E2=80=99s style is so= open, the casual and intense find comfort in each other and the remarkable detail emerges: =E2=80=9CWhat horizon / spreads in the distance / muscles ripening= ?=E2=80=9D Much of this work is therefore fresh and unexpectable, like the final line of hi= s elegy at Char=E2=80=99s gravesite: =E2=80=9CQuiet snow, gossip over the her= o=E2=80=99s grave.=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94*Paul Hoover* The split infinitive title that is *Unable to Fully California *prompts the question: What in 2010 is most real? Larry Sawyer leads us in response to =E2=80=9Cthe exotic trigonometry=E2=80=9D that invokes twirled concepts, bl= ended wines, plus deliciously intentional mistakes. In this spree of sight and sound, nouns take up residence while collocating in new roles as verbs alive in trans-plantation. The tenor and vehicle of similes yield a vivid array of bleached blond poems that skid across the page. Their x axis is transmuted from horizon line to stars as yet unnamed from which we readers readily infer we=E2=80=99re not in Kansas anymore. =E2=80=94*Sheila E. Murphy* I love the clear style, unforced music. It is not so much a strange poetry as the poetry of a stranger, the way Bishop was a Brazilian in Boston and a Bostonian in Brazil. I fell in love with your =E2=80=9Cblue fruit=E2=80=9D = and =E2=80=9Cinescapable tomorrow,=E2=80=9D also what seems like renunciation not of sentimentality = but of clich=C3=A9 =E2=80=A6I like even the quasi-Romantic dislocations here: =E2= =80=9CThere is a beauty to ice / only a statue understands.=E2=80=9D I=E2=80=99m not a statue, so I= only partially understand, but that should be more than enough for Larry Sawyer=E2=80=99s = uncanny picnic on no grass =E2=80=A6 seemed as real as the Bronx, and I couldn=E2= =80=99t stop thinking: I am so lucky that this poetry is so good. =E2=80=94*David Shapir= o* =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 11:30:18 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Adam Fieled Subject: Apparition Poems on YouTube MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii These Apparition Poems, filmed at Eris Temple in Philly, are my best argument: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3-sRxj4qnc Best, Adam ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 15:31:05 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jacquilyn Weeks Subject: Re: "The Conspiracy Against Poems" by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online In-Reply-To: <29568827.755641283003215190.JavaMail.www@wwinf3702> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Actually, "poetics" was a useful and much-debated concept that eighteenth-century poets and scholars routinely traced back to Classical Greco-Roman work. From *A New and Complete Dictionary of Arts and Sciences: Comprehending All the Branches of Useful Knowledge *(1754): "POETICS: the doctrine of poetry, or the laws and rules of conducting pieces, or compositions of poetry, such as Aristotle's poetics, a work much valued." From *The Critical Review, or Annals of Literature *(1797), in a review of the second edition of Coleridge's *Poems*: "As no author can justly be offended at liberal criticism, Mr. Coleridge 'returns his acknowledgements to the different reviewers for the assistance which they have afforded him in detecting his poetic deficiencies.' Upon a revisal of his productions, he has omitted some which he was less pleased, and has substituted new pieces for the discarded poems." The same volume uses the the term in broader scope for a review of *Herder on the Advancement of the Belles Letteres*:* * *"fourth fragment* (letter eighty seventh) points out the influence of the Provencal poetry on the culture and poetics of Europe. The qualities, exterior and internal, of the Italian poetry are considered. The characteristics of French tales and theatrical pieces are also examined; after which observations occur on the poetics of Spain." I could cite lots more examples, but a basic search for "poetics" (limited to volumes published between 1700-1800) on Google Books will give you about 2,720 results. ECCO, is even better, if you have access to it. (Of course, the overwhelming majority of of these hits will be attributable to European middle- or upper-class men.) Adam, I'm not trying to be rude - just trying to clarify, but I'd be interested knowing: 1. When/where do you suggest that the concept of "poetics" comes into being? Could it be that you are arguing with someone (or some school) in particular? 2. Are you suggesting that "poetics" means something different in the 21c. than it meant in the Romantic period? 3. You suggest that "poets have been formed who respond to theory first, poems second" - how, precisely, are you distinguishing between "theory" and "poetry" in this context? (Can the distinction as you're making it be applied to all poets throughout poetic history?) (Is that what you're tryin= g to do?) 4. How do you intuit whether poetry or theory came first in a particular work without getting bogged down in dead-end debates about author intentionality? 5. Why are you so invested in Coleridge and Wordsworth specifically? (In dismissing political correctness, are you invalidating all the feminist/Marxist/post-colonial arguments leveled against the limits of thei= r "new language"?) If you are interested in more diverse work, would it, perhaps, be worthwhile to consider poetics as they are developed in non-Western histories of poetry? I am not deeply familiar with the history of Asian poetry, but, just guessing from the importance of poetry to court culture, I would imagine that they have a history of poetry theory that is much longer and better documented than the European history. Persian poetry has exquisitely complex rules, and has for millennia. Any clarification would be much appreciated. All best wishes, Jacqui Weeks University of Notre Dame PhD Candidate Department of English Gender Studies Program Keough-Naughton Institute for Irish Studies 356 O'Shaughnessy Hall Notre Dame, IN 46556 On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Jeffrey Side wrote: > "The Conspiracy Against Poems" by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online > http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Fieled%20essay%205.htm > > Excerpts: > =93There is no historical evidence to suggest that during the Romantic er= a, > something called =93Poetics=94 existed. At the time, Wordsworth and Coler= idge, > both identifiable as =93Lake=94 poets, initiated investigations of a theo= retical > nature, centered on poetry. These investigations were one of Coleridge=92= s > m=E9tiers; Wordsworth rarely identified himself as something other than a > poet. The controversies that surrounded Wordsworth, from the publication = of > Lyrical Ballads forwards, were centered jointly on his poems and the > theories that buttressed them. Why is it that in 2010, a majority of poet= s, > particularly those toiling in experimental milieus, seem both more ground= ed > in and more stimulated by theories than by the poems they bolster? What i= s > this nebulous entity, =93poetics,=94 and how has it sapped the life out o= f what > it is meant to serve? The chief weakness of the pursuit of =93poetics,=94= as I > see it, is that it puts premiums on two red herrings=97novelties and poli= tical > correctness. =93Poetics,=94 as practiced by the bolder American universit= ies, > wants to investigate the newest of the new, anything (striated, of course= , > within the taut bounds of political correctness) that has not been done > before. But practicing =93poetics=94 creates and perpetuates its own kind= of > romantic ideology=97an unthinking and uncritical belief in one=92s > self-representations as planted firmly in the new, fresh, and bold.=94 > =93Poets weaned on poetics never quite reconcile themselves to the realit= y > that poems spun out of flimsy theoretical material cannot have any great = or > striking impact, either in the long or the short term. All this movement > towards theory and concept is mirrored in other art forms; but as the > post-modern impulse ages, it may be seen that when taken to an extreme, a= s > it has been in experimental poetry, it creates such an aura of rapid > obsolescence around new poetry that one wonders why new poems are being > written at all.=94 > =93Simply put, poetics is mainly a construct established and put into > propulsive motion by white, middle-class academics; and as multiculturali= sm > has emerged as a subsidiary branch of post-modernism, a sense of guilt mo= ves > participants not only towards the outr=E9 but towards anything ethnic or > deviant. The problem with poetics generally is that there is little quali= ty > control. The conceit of post-modern poetics is that there is no such thin= g > as =93quality=94; quality is a teetering edifice erected by hegemonic whi= te > males to reinforce a master narrative patched up against invasion.=94 > =93Generations are now beginning to emerge who have been weaned on these > approaches. The upshot is that poets have been formed who respond to theo= ry > first, poems second. If poems are a subsidiary branch of theories, then > poetry as an endeavor has become so bastardized and decadent that it has > ceased to be itself.=94 > > http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Fieled%20essay%205.htm > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 16:03:36 +0100 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Randolph Healy Subject: Wild Honey Press Podcast: Andrew Brewerton Comments: To: "BRITISH-IRISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK" , poetry and poetics , "UKPOETRY@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The first part of Andrew Brewerton's reading of "Raag Leaves for Paresh Chakraborty", published by Shearsman Books, is available at the link below. http://feeds.feedburner.com/RaagLeavesForPareshChakraborty* * You can simply listen to this first part or subscribe to the entire series. A new part will be added daily. best wishes Randolph Healy PS Apologies if you receive this more than once ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 17:55:30 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: alexisquinlan Subject: Re: Comments in Chinese In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 8A400) Sharon-- This sounds cool, and I'd love to see the work. Thanks! Alexis Quinlan On Aug 24, 2010, at 1:46 PM, Sharon Mesmer/David Borchart wrote: > I ran my Chinese blog comments thru Babelfish, made poems, and the poems w= ere pub'd in the recent Satellite Telephone: >=20 > http://nolongdistance.endingthealphabet.org/ >=20 > If you want to see them let me know and I can b/c them to you. >=20 > -- Sharon Mesmer >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Aug 18, 2010, at 4:53 PM, marc vincenz wrote: >=20 >> Plenty of Chinese SPAM novels out there. No seriously - I lived in Shang= hai >> for over ten years. Some of the best fiction in China is web-based. >> In so far as censorship is concerned, I doubt that anything of serious me= rit >> could manage to navigate out of the Chinese government's spiderweb. >> That is, of course, unless you go through Hong Kong. Look at Google >> for Sun Tzu's sake. FYI, Wolf Totem was available online long before it >> got on to the bestsellers' list. >>=20 >> On 16 August 2010 17:52, Ann Bogle wrote: >>=20 >>>=20 >>> I've been told that comments in Chinese to weblogs are "spam." I have >>> deleted a few of those comments. Then I realized that they may not be s= pam >>> but >>> may be legitimate comments. I have begun to translate 14 of them using >>> Babelfish. They seem to be wisdom sayings, such as this one: "The succe= ss >>> may >>> attract the friend, frustrates may test the friend." I'd like informati= on >>> -- >>> if anyone has experience -- about issues in Chinese blogging, including= >>> censorship. >>>=20 >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideli= nes >>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>>=20 >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideline= s & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 13:10:44 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Apparition Poems on YouTube In-Reply-To: <797970.42905.qm@web53606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You're very thin. Admirable. Mark At 02:30 PM 8/29/2010, you wrote: >These Apparition Poems, filmed at Eris Temple in Philly, are my best= argument: > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Do3-sRxj4qnc > >Best, >Adam > > > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept=20 >all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 >http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a=20 lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the=20 poet alive in every sense of the word, and=20 through every one of his senses. Instead of=20 missing a beat or a part, Weiss=92 fragments are=20 like Chekhov=92s short stories=ADthe more that gets=20 left out, the more they seem to contain=85 One can=20 hear echoes from all the various=20 ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its=20 core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment=20 is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure=20 musical threnody=85[it] opens a window, not only=20 into a mind, but a person, a personality, this=20 human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket.=20 http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 10:43:50 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Paul Nelson Subject: Re: "The Conspiracy Against Poems" by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online In-Reply-To: <29568827.755641283003215190.JavaMail.www@wwinf3702> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Experience first, explanations afterward." Muhammad Subuh Sumohadiwidjojo= =0A=0A=0A=0A Paul E. Nelson =0A=0ASPLAB!=0AC. City, WA =0A206.422.5002=0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Jeffrey Side = =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Sat, Augus= t 28, 2010 6:46:55 AM=0ASubject: "The Conspiracy Against Poems" by Adam Fie= led at The Argotist Online=0A=0A"The Conspiracy Against Poems" by Adam Fiel= ed at The Argotist Online=0Ahttp://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Fieled%20essay%= 205.htm=0A=0AExcerpts:=0A=E2=80=9CThere is no historical evidence to sugges= t that during the Romantic era, =0Asomething called =E2=80=9CPoetics=E2=80= =9D existed. At the time, Wordsworth and Coleridge, both =0Aidentifiable as= =E2=80=9CLake=E2=80=9D poets, initiated investigations of a theoretical na= ture, =0Acentered on poetry. These investigations were one of Coleridge=E2= =80=99s m=C3=A9tiers; =0AWordsworth rarely identified himself as something = other than a poet. The =0Acontroversies that surrounded Wordsworth, from th= e publication of Lyrical =0ABallads forwards, were centered jointly on his = poems and the theories that =0Abuttressed them. Why is it that in 2010, a m= ajority of poets, particularly those =0Atoiling in experimental milieus, se= em both more grounded in and more stimulated =0Aby theories than by the poe= ms they bolster? What is this nebulous entity, =0A=E2=80=9Cpoetics,=E2=80= =9D and how has it sapped the life out of what it is meant to serve? The = =0Achief weakness of the pursuit of =E2=80=9Cpoetics,=E2=80=9D as I see it,= is that it puts =0Apremiums on two red herrings=E2=80=94novelties and poli= tical correctness. =E2=80=9CPoetics,=E2=80=9D as =0Apracticed by the bolder= American universities, wants to investigate the newest =0Aof the new, anyt= hing (striated, of course, within the taut bounds of political =0Acorrectne= ss) that has not been done before. But practicing =E2=80=9Cpoetics=E2=80=9D= creates and =0Aperpetuates its own kind of romantic ideology=E2=80=94an un= thinking and uncritical =0Abelief in one=E2=80=99s self-representations as = planted firmly in the new, fresh, and =0Abold.=E2=80=9D=0A=E2=80=9CPoets we= aned on poetics never quite reconcile themselves to the reality that =0Apoe= ms spun out of flimsy theoretical material cannot have any great or strikin= g =0Aimpact, either in the long or the short term. All this movement toward= s theory =0Aand concept is mirrored in other art forms; but as the post-mod= ern impulse ages, =0Ait may be seen that when taken to an extreme, as it ha= s been in experimental =0Apoetry, it creates such an aura of rapid obsolesc= ence around new poetry that one =0Awonders why new poems are being written = at all.=E2=80=9D=0A=E2=80=9CSimply put, poetics is mainly a construct estab= lished and put into propulsive =0Amotion by white, middle-class academics; = and as multiculturalism has emerged as =0Aa subsidiary branch of post-moder= nism, a sense of guilt moves participants not =0Aonly towards the outr=C3= =A9 but towards anything ethnic or deviant. The problem with =0Apoetics gen= erally is that there is little quality control. The conceit of =0Apost-mode= rn poetics is that there is no such thing as =E2=80=9Cquality=E2=80=9D; qua= lity is a =0Ateetering edifice erected by hegemonic white males to reinforc= e a master =0Anarrative patched up against invasion.=E2=80=9D=0A=E2=80=9CGe= nerations are now beginning to emerge who have been weaned on these =0Aappr= oaches. The upshot is that poets have been formed who respond to theory =0A= first, poems second. If poems are a subsidiary branch of theories, then poe= try =0Aas an endeavor has become so bastardized and decadent that it has ce= ased to be =0Aitself.=E2=80=9D=0A=0Ahttp://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Fieled%= 20essay%205.htm=0A=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is m= oderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & =0Asub/unsub info:= http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 21:54:29 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9CParadigm_of_the_Tinctures=E2=80=9D_?= by Steve McCaffery and Alan Halsey Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc , Wryting-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is =E2=80=9CParadigm of the Tinctures=E2= =80=9D by Steve McCaffery and Alan Halsey Description: This revised and expanded edition of =E2=80=9CParadigm of the Tinctures=E2= =80=9D by Steve McCaffery and Alan Halsey revisits the classic humanist ide= a of the Sister Arts where poetry is understood to be a speaking picture an= d a picture a silent poem. The revisitation, however, is bluntly revisiona= ry and the result is a fresh text-graphic dialogue. Available as a free ebook here: http://www.lulu.com/product/ebook/paradigm-of-the-tinctures/12456406 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 15:59:45 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: benefit and tribute month MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit can ya send the info out to yer lists benefit for ira cohen sept 8 at bowery 7 or 8 not sure also a HAPPY BIRTHDAY TULI a big tribute to tuli kupferberg will take sept 28 7 pm onward at the living theater - clinton street between houston and stanton FREE and open to the public many speakers, readers musicians & surprise guests if ya knew him come and say a word or 3 steve ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 02:59:42 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: CA Conrad Subject: poet DAVID WOLACH is PhillySound Feature #8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 poet DAVID WOLACH is PhillySound Feature #8 Please see the feature at this link: http://phillysound.blogspot.com/2010_08_01_archive.html The feature includes a new poem by Wolach, "HOSPITEL (for Frank Sherlock)", an extensive interview about his new book of poetry OCCULTATIONS (Black Radish, 2010), and community commentary from J. TOWNSEND, BRENDA IIJIMA, ROB HALPERN, THOM DONOVAN, and JULES BOYKOFF. If you're in Philadelphia THIS FRIDAY (9/3/10), come hear DAVID WOLACH read with FRANK SHERLOCK, CARLOS SOTO ROMAN, and JULIE DOXSEE at Fergie's Pub (1214 Sansom St.), 7:30 pm (this event is sponsored by THE NEW PHILADELPHIA POETS) ENJOY THE DAVID WOLACH FEATURE! CAConrad -- PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 07:59:01 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Kyle Schlesinger Subject: Recently on Mimeo Mimeo Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Jed Birmingham has posted some excellent material on the Mimeo Mimeo blog recently, including: * late Tish=20 * Kenward Elmslie=B9s Power Plant Poems * Ed Dorn=B9s Wild Dog * Carol Berge=B9s Light Years * Rocky Ledge=20 * Angel Hair=20 * Ted Berrigan=B9s Living with Chris * Jack Spicer=B9s J magazine * Marijuana Review &&& more at: http://mimeomimeo.blogspot.com/ And thanks to everyone who has asked when the next issue will be available. We=B9re working on Mimeo Mimeo #4 now, which will include contributions by Miles Champion, Trevor Winkfield, Tom Raworth, Alastair Johnston, David Meltzer, Asa Benveniste, Alan Halsey, Ken Edwards, Richard Price, Eric Mottram, and Jeff Nuttall. Best, Kyle --=20 POEMS & PICTURES Curated by Kyle Schlesinger Center for Book Arts New York City July 7, 2010 - September 11, 2010 Berman, Brainard, Creeley, Dine, and many more Details at: http://cuneiformpress.blogspot.com/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 07:54:11 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Poetica Critique of "A Community Writing Itself." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends and Colleagues: My fifth Poetica critique is of "A Community Writing Itself: = Conversations with Vanguard Writers of the Bay Area," Edited by Sarah = Rosenthal: http://www.cddc.vt.edu/host/weishaus/Poetica/blog-5.htm Introduction: http://www.cddc.vt.edu/host/weishaus/Poetica/intro.htm Thank you, As Always. -Joel Joel Weishaus Homepage: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 On-Line Archive:=20 www.cddc.vt.edu/host/weishaus/index.htm =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 11:48:08 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Morgan Myers Subject: Re: "The Conspiracy Against Poems" by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" I usually try to stay out of these things, but sometimes you just have to= say something. http://critiquemanque.blogspot.com/2010/08/conspiracy-against-growing-hel= l-up.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 10:57:49 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Chirot Subject: Re: "The Conspiracy Against Poems" by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Jacqui Weeks-- Many many thanks for this wonderful, inspiring letter, with so many questions & examples to work with!-- In my limited experience, no matter what culture & time period i have & continue to read poetry in, there is always a poetics, many poetics, writte= n by and about the poets one is reading--whether it be essays, reviews, critical notices or remarks in letters, notebooks, and within the works themselves . . . The more different cultures & time periods i read in, the more poetics one finds-- it is not as though people in some "pre-theory" age or world, from the poin= t of view of a very narrow contemporary American point of view--did not THINK very intensely about what poetry is, about the work that poets were doing, about the ways in which poetry functions in relation with the language it i= s being written in--the society it is being written in--about the structures and elements of letters, words, lines, phrases, sound, visuality,readership= , distribution-- the questions of copying, plagiarism, the "writing of the No," all the questions with which one may work in the "current context" existed elsewher= e and, in many ways, since the very creation of writing itself, even before i= t became formalized into writing "systems"--one finds examples of poets, "proto-poets," thinking about what today is called "poetics,"--a name which as Jacqui Weeks points out--is a term already used by and defined by Aristotle, as one example alone-- Last week, within one of the brief "El Colonel" pieces i write, often at facebook,-- which are fiction which includes "monologues" or "thoughts" by the protagonist along the lines of what Mallarme called the "poeme critique"--a reader responded by directing me to certain sections of Aristotle's Poetics--for more to think about in relation with the thoughts expressed in the piece-and the sections recommended a great opening into what was written and far beyond-- A very great, revelatory & deeply profound recent example of a poetry and its poetics working with each other is Murat Nemet-Nejat's EDA: An Antholog= y of Contemporary Turkish Poetry. A groundbreaking classic in global poetry and poetics in human history is still Jerome Rothernberg's Technicians of the Sacred-- and one may turn to Jerry's blog Poets & Poetics to find poetics from, again--a global context, from all eras of the histories of different parts of the world, a wide variety of languages, cultures, poems, songs, writings= , poetics--- The internet is overflowing with poetries & poetics from the world over, with examples from historical periods pre-dating Aristotle . . . to the mos= t contemporary, exciting theory one can-- and cannot!!-even imagine until finding these works--available via simple search-- It is often pointed out that Americans, in poetics, poetry also--tend to be too isolationist, too much in mind consciously or not of being "Number One,= " and so ignore what is happening, what has happened, outside of the USA, and often outside the immediate sound byted present-- Actions, events, examples, information which may seem "true" within a very narrow context--and in whose own interest it is necessary to continually limit, control, what are given as examples, ideas, concepts, histories, poets and poetries, poetics--to be sound byted, discussed, discarded, and s= o on--are heavily dependent on their being taken to be as it were, unquestioningly, "at the center of the world, at the most up-to-the-minute moment in time"--so that the competition to remain dominant, to be perceive= d as "the Number One," with in this proscribed sphere, require continual efforts to control & limit what is produced, discussed, what it is that top= s the "hit parade" for inclusion in the "leading" syllabi, anthologies, critical studies, etc etc--a self-reproducing "machine" that engenders its own fears and anxieties about being "part of it all"--and which, if one stops accepting it unquestioningly, is for the most part a parade of "Emperors with No Clothes"-- It struck me in reading Adam's excerpts from his essay that many of the "things" which appear to be disturbing him regarding the continual "necessity" of the latest, newest, most fashionable etc are perhaps primarily "market driven," in the sense that for any discipline, within itself, there is the drive to continue producing materials which generate i= n turn ways of classifying, colonizing, territroializing both "new works" under a given rubric, as well as generating retrospectively their "predecessors," or "examples avant la lettre," all of which produce new anthologies, course syllabi, examples for essays, papers, theses, interviews, reviews-- and, in turn--are used to create new positions within sub divisions with in departments in academia etc etc or new areas requiring "new" reviewers, bloggers, web sites, curators of exhibitions, performances etc etc-- But these are only a few very small glimpses of the myriad ways to "look at= " the situation perhaps-- Again, many many thanks to You, Jacqui Weeks for this exceptional, greatly informing and inspiring letter!-- david-bc On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 12:31 PM, Jacquilyn Weeks wrote: > Actually, "poetics" was a useful and much-debated concept that > eighteenth-century poets and scholars routinely traced back to Classical > Greco-Roman work. > > From *A New and Complete Dictionary of Arts and Sciences: Comprehending A= ll > the Branches of Useful Knowledge *(1754): > "POETICS: the doctrine of poetry, or the laws and rules of conducting > pieces, or compositions of poetry, such as Aristotle's poetics, a work mu= ch > valued." > > From *The Critical Review, or Annals of Literature *(1797), in a review o= f > the second edition of Coleridge's *Poems*: > "As no author can justly be offended at liberal criticism, Mr. Coleridge > 'returns his acknowledgements to the different reviewers for the assistan= ce > which they have afforded him in detecting his poetic deficiencies.' Upon = a > revisal of his productions, he has omitted some which he was less pleased= , > and has substituted new pieces for the discarded poems." > > The same volume uses the the term in broader scope for a review of *Herde= r > on the Advancement of the Belles Letteres*:* * > *"fourth fragment* (letter eighty seventh) points out the influence of th= e > Provencal poetry on the culture and poetics of Europe. The qualities, > exterior and internal, of the Italian poetry are considered. The > characteristics of French tales and theatrical pieces are also examined; > after which observations occur on the poetics of Spain." > > I could cite lots more examples, but a basic search for "poetics" (limite= d > to volumes published between 1700-1800) on Google Books will give you abo= ut > 2,720 results. ECCO, is even better, if you have access to it. (Of course= , > the overwhelming majority of of these hits will be attributable to Europe= an > middle- or upper-class men.) > > Adam, I'm not trying to be rude - just trying to clarify, but I'd be > interested knowing: > > 1. When/where do you suggest that the concept of "poetics" comes into > being? Could it be that you are arguing with someone (or some school) in > particular? > > 2. Are you suggesting that "poetics" means something different in the 21c= . > than it meant in the Romantic period? > > 3. You suggest that "poets have been formed who respond to theory first, > poems second" - how, precisely, are you distinguishing between "theory" a= nd > "poetry" in this context? (Can the distinction as you're making it be > applied to all poets throughout poetic history?) (Is that what you're > trying > to do?) > > 4. How do you intuit whether poetry or theory came first in a particular > work without getting bogged down in dead-end debates about author > intentionality? > > 5. Why are you so invested in Coleridge and Wordsworth specifically? (In > dismissing political correctness, are you invalidating all the > feminist/Marxist/post-colonial arguments leveled against the limits of > their > "new language"?) If you are interested in more diverse work, would it, > perhaps, be worthwhile to consider poetics as they are developed in > non-Western histories of poetry? I am not deeply familiar with the histor= y > of Asian poetry, but, just guessing from the importance of poetry to cour= t > culture, I would imagine that they have a history of poetry theory that i= s > much longer and better documented than the European history. Persian poet= ry > has exquisitely complex rules, and has for millennia. > > Any clarification would be much appreciated. > > All best wishes, > Jacqui Weeks > > > University of Notre Dame > PhD Candidate Department of English > Gender Studies Program > Keough-Naughton Institute for Irish Studies > 356 O'Shaughnessy Hall > Notre Dame, IN 46556 > > > On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Jeffrey Side wrote= : > > > "The Conspiracy Against Poems" by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online > > http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Fieled%20essay%205.htm > > > > Excerpts: > > =93There is no historical evidence to suggest that during the Romantic = era, > > something called =93Poetics=94 existed. At the time, Wordsworth and > Coleridge, > > both identifiable as =93Lake=94 poets, initiated investigations of a > theoretical > > nature, centered on poetry. These investigations were one of Coleridge= =92s > > m=E9tiers; Wordsworth rarely identified himself as something other than= a > > poet. The controversies that surrounded Wordsworth, from the publicatio= n > of > > Lyrical Ballads forwards, were centered jointly on his poems and the > > theories that buttressed them. Why is it that in 2010, a majority of > poets, > > particularly those toiling in experimental milieus, seem both more > grounded > > in and more stimulated by theories than by the poems they bolster? What > is > > this nebulous entity, =93poetics,=94 and how has it sapped the life out= of > what > > it is meant to serve? The chief weakness of the pursuit of =93poetics,= =94 as > I > > see it, is that it puts premiums on two red herrings=97novelties and > political > > correctness. =93Poetics,=94 as practiced by the bolder American univers= ities, > > wants to investigate the newest of the new, anything (striated, of > course, > > within the taut bounds of political correctness) that has not been done > > before. But practicing =93poetics=94 creates and perpetuates its own ki= nd of > > romantic ideology=97an unthinking and uncritical belief in one=92s > > self-representations as planted firmly in the new, fresh, and bold.=94 > > =93Poets weaned on poetics never quite reconcile themselves to the real= ity > > that poems spun out of flimsy theoretical material cannot have any grea= t > or > > striking impact, either in the long or the short term. All this movemen= t > > towards theory and concept is mirrored in other art forms; but as the > > post-modern impulse ages, it may be seen that when taken to an extreme, > as > > it has been in experimental poetry, it creates such an aura of rapid > > obsolescence around new poetry that one wonders why new poems are being > > written at all.=94 > > =93Simply put, poetics is mainly a construct established and put into > > propulsive motion by white, middle-class academics; and as > multiculturalism > > has emerged as a subsidiary branch of post-modernism, a sense of guilt > moves > > participants not only towards the outr=E9 but towards anything ethnic o= r > > deviant. The problem with poetics generally is that there is little > quality > > control. The conceit of post-modern poetics is that there is no such > thing > > as =93quality=94; quality is a teetering edifice erected by hegemonic w= hite > > males to reinforce a master narrative patched up against invasion.=94 > > =93Generations are now beginning to emerge who have been weaned on thes= e > > approaches. The upshot is that poets have been formed who respond to > theory > > first, poems second. If poems are a subsidiary branch of theories, then > > poetry as an endeavor has become so bastardized and decadent that it ha= s > > ceased to be itself.=94 > > > > http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Fieled%20essay%205.htm > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html