<?xml version='1.0' encoding='UTF-8'?><?xml-stylesheet href="http://www.blogger.com/styles/atom.css" type="text/css"?><feed xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom' xmlns:openSearch='http://a9.com/-/spec/opensearchrss/1.0/' xmlns:gd="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post115045565880002211..comments</id><updated>2011-07-13T16:13:18.645-04:00</updated><title type='text'>Comments on Silliman&#39;s Blog: </title><link rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#feed' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/feeds/comments/default'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html'/><link rel="hub" href="http://pubsubhubbub.appspot.com/"/><link rel='next' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default?start-index=26&amp;max-results=25'/><author><name>Unknown</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><generator version='7.00' uri='http://www.blogger.com'>Blogger</generator><openSearch:totalResults>34</openSearch:totalResults><openSearch:startIndex>1</openSearch:startIndex><openSearch:itemsPerPage>25</openSearch:itemsPerPage><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115079564093079362</id><published>2006-06-20T05:27:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2006-06-20T05:27:00.000-04:00</updated><title type='text'>Art, I appreciate your contributions to this discu...</title><summary type='text'>Art, I appreciate your contributions to this discussion, and I agree that “used chance operations” was an unfortunate way of saying what I meant, as most of his work after the early 50s did in some way. &lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;I’m thinking of the numbered works at the end of his life, a lot of his compositions for strings which were intended to aid meditation and contemplation, works like Cheap Imitation, </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115079564093079362'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115079564093079362'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html?showComment=1150795620000#c115079564093079362' title=''/><author><name>Ian Keenan</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/16596558654735506132</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115045565880002211' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/115045565880002211' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1591342472"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="June 20, 2006"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115078523947425338</id><published>2006-06-20T02:33:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2006-06-20T02:33:00.000-04:00</updated><title type='text'>&quot;only a small percentage of Cage&#39;s compositions in...</title><summary type='text'>&quot;only a small percentage of Cage&#39;s compositions involved chance operations or were strictly conceptual like 4 33&quot;&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Where did you get that idea? It&#39;s not true at all. Beginning with Music of Changes, and progressing to 4&#39;33&quot; and what followed, virtually ALL of Cage&#39;s very prolific output after 1951 used chance operations in one way or another. Once he started using the I Ching to make </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115078523947425338'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115078523947425338'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html?showComment=1150785180000#c115078523947425338' title=''/><author><name>Art Durkee</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/07399620147907002735</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115045565880002211' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/115045565880002211' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1119200278"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="June 20, 2006"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115074604828261488</id><published>2006-06-19T15:40:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2006-06-19T15:40:00.000-04:00</updated><title type='text'>What an odd sense of humor.Thanks for reminding of...</title><summary type='text'>What an odd sense of humor.&lt;BR/&gt;Thanks for reminding of that show in my town.  I&#39;ve been remiss...</summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115074604828261488'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115074604828261488'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html?showComment=1150746000000#c115074604828261488' title=''/><author><name>david raphael israel</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/07535589040322113419</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115045565880002211' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/115045565880002211' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1441140986"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="June 19, 2006"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115073376789626653</id><published>2006-06-19T12:16:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2006-06-19T12:16:00.000-04:00</updated><title type='text'>I just saw a lecture on the Baroness at the Dada s...</title><summary type='text'>I just saw a lecture on the Baroness at the Dada show in DC and it is no doubt a fertile subject how her social interaction with the art world of the time, including American poets, relates to rationality and irrationality of lived art.  I think, though, you are creating a mythology of Duchamp’s perceptions of the Baroness, to whom he lent financial support, and Duchamp was amongst the Paris </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115073376789626653'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115073376789626653'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html?showComment=1150733760000#c115073376789626653' title=''/><author><name>Ian Keenan</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/16596558654735506132</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115045565880002211' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/115045565880002211' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1591342472"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="June 19, 2006"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115073136122507469</id><published>2006-06-19T11:36:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2006-06-19T11:36:00.000-04:00</updated><title type='text'>[tangent]It&#39;s interesting that radical, in its bas...</title><summary type='text'>[tangent]&lt;BR/&gt;It&#39;s interesting that radical, in its basic meaning of &quot;related to the root,&quot; could (in a different language history than the one that has happened) conceivably connote &quot;traditional&quot; -- since usually tradition lies in the past, and is thus the root of what appears subsequently.  But I suppose the word &quot;radical&quot; -- in its connotations -- has involved an idea of &quot;striking at the root&quot;</summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115073136122507469'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115073136122507469'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html?showComment=1150731360000#c115073136122507469' title=''/><author><name>david raphael israel</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/07535589040322113419</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115045565880002211' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/115045565880002211' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1441140986"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="June 19, 2006"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115069513805009063</id><published>2006-06-19T01:32:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2006-06-19T01:32:00.000-04:00</updated><title type='text'>david, radical: I guess an indication of some sort...</title><summary type='text'>david,&lt;BR/&gt; radical: I guess an indication of some sort of risk taking. I dont necessarily associate radical with good-but I often find (supposed) &quot;radical&quot; works  the most appealing- when terms like radical/experimental are treated as critical constructs compromise is inevitable (in terms of perception) Another often misued term, &quot;experimental&quot; often (irresponsibly) used to describe works either</summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115069513805009063'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115069513805009063'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html?showComment=1150695120000#c115069513805009063' title=''/><author><name>olga stamata</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/17701772501943394666</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115045565880002211' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/115045565880002211' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1375848053"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="June 19, 2006"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115069175791530795</id><published>2006-06-19T00:35:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2006-06-19T00:35:00.000-04:00</updated><title type='text'>read Amelia Jones&#39; Irrational Modernism-much evide...</title><summary type='text'>read Amelia Jones&#39; Irrational Modernism-much evidence to support the contrary-duchamp (along with Ray, others-including her ex-lover W.C. williams) viewed the Baroness as a sort of art freak-respectfully distancing themselves from her sometimes bizarre/ performative intrusions-Duchamp&#39;s support was most likely a pat on the back-little else- earlier pt.duchamp represented highly rational </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115069175791530795'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115069175791530795'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html?showComment=1150691700000#c115069175791530795' title=''/><author><name>olga stamata</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/17701772501943394666</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115045565880002211' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/115045565880002211' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1375848053"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="June 19, 2006"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115069058217453161</id><published>2006-06-19T00:16:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2006-06-19T00:16:00.000-04:00</updated><title type='text'>Olga,does radical = good?Does the meaning of radic...</title><summary type='text'>Olga,&lt;BR/&gt;does radical = good?&lt;BR/&gt;Does the meaning of radical stay static, or does it change from period to period?&lt;BR/&gt;Is the standard for the radical a fixed standard?  How is it discerned?  By whom?&lt;BR/&gt;What are the relative merits of radical vs. non-radical art?  If the latter were (this is hypothetical) culturally overshadowed by the former, could it reach a point where the non-radical </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115069058217453161'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115069058217453161'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html?showComment=1150690560000#c115069058217453161' title=''/><author><name>david raphael israel</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/07535589040322113419</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115045565880002211' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/115045565880002211' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1441140986"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="June 19, 2006"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115068443401724257</id><published>2006-06-18T22:33:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2006-06-18T22:33:00.000-04:00</updated><title type='text'>If Duchamp was a “strategic subversive engaged in ...</title><summary type='text'>If Duchamp was a “strategic subversive engaged in a sort calculated binary negation” of those three why was he one of the main supporters of Cravan and Baroness von Freytag-Loringhoven?</summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115068443401724257'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115068443401724257'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html?showComment=1150684380000#c115068443401724257' title=''/><author><name>Ian Keenan</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/16596558654735506132</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115045565880002211' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/115045565880002211' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1591342472"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="June 18, 2006"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115067935376941745</id><published>2006-06-18T21:09:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2006-06-18T21:09:00.000-04:00</updated><title type='text'>haha, not so literally I suppose, but duchamp was ...</title><summary type='text'>haha, not so literally I suppose, but duchamp was a brilliant, strategic subversive engaged in a sort calculated binary negation- i.e  the urinal  (framed within the institution to validate its anti-ness)- The sort of excremental Im referring to is much closer to home-shit as embodied in irrational (lived) &quot;non-empirical&quot;otherness-ex. baroness von loringhoven, j. baader, a. cravan-</summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115067935376941745'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115067935376941745'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html?showComment=1150679340000#c115067935376941745' title=''/><author><name>olga stamata</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/17701772501943394666</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115045565880002211' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/115045565880002211' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1375848053"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="June 18, 2006"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115067794194926922</id><published>2006-06-18T20:45:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2006-06-18T20:45:00.000-04:00</updated><title type='text'>Olga, How is Duchamp’s urinal readymade “Fountain”...</title><summary type='text'>Olga, How is Duchamp’s urinal readymade “Fountain” ‘covertly dismissing the excremental/lunatic from the anarchic panorama?’&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4059997.stm</summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115067794194926922'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115067794194926922'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html?showComment=1150677900000#c115067794194926922' title=''/><author><name>Ian Keenan</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/16596558654735506132</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115045565880002211' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/115045565880002211' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1591342472"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="June 18, 2006"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115067715879925963</id><published>2006-06-18T20:32:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2006-06-18T20:32:00.000-04:00</updated><title type='text'>your coming at it from a logocentric/incrementalis...</title><summary type='text'>your coming at it from a logocentric/incrementalist/dialectic viewpoint-which is acceptable as a defense-Again, I dont question your assessment-i&#39;ve been modertately familiar with cage&#39;s work for the past 15 years (having read lectures/notes, listened to  various works; feldman, wolff, et.) however, I do have difficulty ascribing radicality to an approach rooted in anti-aestheticism-the shift </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115067715879925963'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115067715879925963'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html?showComment=1150677120000#c115067715879925963' title=''/><author><name>olga stamata</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/17701772501943394666</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115045565880002211' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/115045565880002211' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1375848053"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="June 18, 2006"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115066762924631125</id><published>2006-06-18T17:53:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2006-06-18T17:53:00.000-04:00</updated><title type='text'>only a small percentage of Cage&#39;s compositions inv...</title><summary type='text'>only a small percentage of Cage&#39;s compositions involved chance operations or were strictly conceptual like 4 33</summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115066762924631125'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115066762924631125'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html?showComment=1150667580000#c115066762924631125' title=''/><author><name>Ian Keenan</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/16596558654735506132</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115045565880002211' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/115045565880002211' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1591342472"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="June 18, 2006"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115065302372516542</id><published>2006-06-18T13:50:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2006-06-18T13:50:00.000-04:00</updated><title type='text'>Thanks for mentioning Luigi Nono. You&#39;re quite rig...</title><summary type='text'>Thanks for mentioning Luigi Nono. You&#39;re quite right about his different use of and approach to silence. I would also point out Luc Ferrari&#39;s use of indeterminacy in some of his work to good effect, again approached in a unique manner. Berio and Feldman, too, of course. &lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;I have recordings of five hour-long dialogues between Feldman and Cage, recorded in New York in the 60s, in which they</summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115065302372516542'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115065302372516542'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html?showComment=1150653000000#c115065302372516542' title=''/><author><name>Art Durkee</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/07399620147907002735</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115045565880002211' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/115045565880002211' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1119200278"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="June 18, 2006"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115056912696249858</id><published>2006-06-17T14:32:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2006-06-17T14:32:00.000-04:00</updated><title type='text'>Of course in Terry Riley&#39;s &quot;In C,&quot; the musicians&#39; ...</title><summary type='text'>Of course in Terry Riley&#39;s &quot;In C,&quot; the musicians&#39; choice-making participation is carefully circumscribed but crucial to the nature of the piece (for those who don&#39;t know: this is where there are 53 different composed, short musical figures that are played repetitively -- starting with the first, then on to the second, repeatedly, then at some point on to the 3rd, etc.; but each musician moves on </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115056912696249858'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115056912696249858'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html?showComment=1150569120000#c115056912696249858' title=''/><author><name>david raphael israel</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/07535589040322113419</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115045565880002211' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/115045565880002211' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1441140986"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="June 17, 2006"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115056731107806348</id><published>2006-06-17T14:01:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2006-06-17T14:01:00.000-04:00</updated><title type='text'>art durkee,i wholly agree with your assessment of ...</title><summary type='text'>art durkee,&lt;BR/&gt;i wholly agree with your assessment of the cage aesthetic-your right,but how does one anticipate theirrational/ impulsive/deeply felt-randomness as such should have no limits- and in the case of an active participant is it possible to distinguish the intended from the unintended? I was referring to the intermedia cage/(rather than compositional one) where rules are  more </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115056731107806348'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115056731107806348'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html?showComment=1150567260000#c115056731107806348' title=''/><author><name>olga stamata</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/17701772501943394666</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115045565880002211' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/115045565880002211' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1375848053"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="June 17, 2006"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115055244886893858</id><published>2006-06-17T09:54:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2006-06-17T09:54:00.000-04:00</updated><title type='text'>I think I understood Art Durkee&#39;s intervention and...</title><summary type='text'>I think I understood Art Durkee&#39;s intervention and enjoyed it.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;If anyone&#39;s interested in a transcript of the Cage performance at Naropa, it&#39;s in a place called Talking Poetics Naropa, edited by anne Waldman.  There are two volumes, and I think it&#39;s in the first one. You get a transcript of the Cage performance, and comments.  It&#39;s been about twenty years since I&#39;ve read this, so my </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115055244886893858'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115055244886893858'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html?showComment=1150552440000#c115055244886893858' title=''/><author><name>Kirby Olson</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/05952289700191142943</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115045565880002211' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/115045565880002211' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1262696662"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="June 17, 2006"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115053576153514838</id><published>2006-06-17T05:16:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2006-06-17T05:16:00.000-04:00</updated><title type='text'>Lotta good stuff here, particularly this last bit ...</title><summary type='text'>Lotta good stuff here, particularly this last bit from Art (other useful distinctions above from Olga and David in particular). The relation to serialism is exactly historically right... though others went in other directions based on their dissatisfactions, from qualitative transformations of serialism (Ferneyhough, and more radically Lachenmann) to the wondrous search for new contexts for </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115053576153514838'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115053576153514838'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html?showComment=1150535760000#c115053576153514838' title=''/><author><name>andy gricevich</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/00797822725132844348</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115045565880002211' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/115045565880002211' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1436621432"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="June 17, 2006"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115053152443859895</id><published>2006-06-17T04:05:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2006-06-17T04:05:00.000-04:00</updated><title type='text'>I come down firmly in the Cage camp on this one. I...</title><summary type='text'>I come down firmly in the Cage camp on this one. I have been re-reading his books these past few months, as well as several studies and festschrifts and collections, and getting more out of them each time. I regularly perform 4&#39;33&quot;, and have performed it on my podcast at various times: yes, actual field-recorded performances, in various locations, of 4&#39;33&quot;, recorded on my laptop. The point of the</summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115053152443859895'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115053152443859895'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html?showComment=1150531500000#c115053152443859895' title=''/><author><name>Art Durkee</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/07399620147907002735</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115045565880002211' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/115045565880002211' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1119200278"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="June 17, 2006"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115053110412158054</id><published>2006-06-17T03:58:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2006-06-17T03:58:00.000-04:00</updated><title type='text'>An odd thing about both Cagean esthetics in genera...</title><summary type='text'>An odd thing about both Cagean esthetics in general, and the 4&#39;33&quot; piece in particular.  I&#39;m reminded of the critique of Mahayana Buddhism (or possibly, it was more particularly the Prajnaparamita school -- details fade now from memory) made by some co (Buddhist) religionist philosopher (all this somewhere back in the 3rd century AD or whatnot) --&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;he said, it&#39;s very much like a thread </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115053110412158054'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115053110412158054'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html?showComment=1150531080000#c115053110412158054' title=''/><author><name>david raphael israel</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/07535589040322113419</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115045565880002211' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/115045565880002211' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1441140986"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="June 17, 2006"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115053065625068399</id><published>2006-06-17T03:50:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2006-06-17T03:50:00.000-04:00</updated><title type='text'>Good points.  I guess like not a few other trailbl...</title><summary type='text'>Good points.  I guess like not a few other trailblazers (self-conceived as such, and that with good reason no doubt), who basically were (as one may say) called on (by what in some respects was an exceedingly headstrong dedication to what were, for him, or them, hard-won ideas -- needfully headstrong, considering countervailing cultural forces in continuous contention -- forces that, night &amp; day,</summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115053065625068399'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115053065625068399'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html?showComment=1150530600000#c115053065625068399' title=''/><author><name>david raphael israel</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/07535589040322113419</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115045565880002211' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/115045565880002211' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1441140986"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="June 17, 2006"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115052307970826201</id><published>2006-06-17T01:44:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2006-06-17T01:44:00.000-04:00</updated><title type='text'>right, but one must understand something of Cage&#39;s...</title><summary type='text'>right, but one must understand something of Cage&#39;s personality; he was, as I understand, an &quot;indeterminant&quot; control freak-one could act spontaneously(how is that possible?) but within the certain &quot;understood&quot; (or misunderstood) parameters, which made for (at times) compromised involvement-Kaprow was the truer anarchist. David, i may be taking the olson piece out of context but it seems all so </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115052307970826201'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115052307970826201'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html?showComment=1150523040000#c115052307970826201' title=''/><author><name>olga stamata</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/17701772501943394666</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115045565880002211' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/115045565880002211' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1375848053"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="June 17, 2006"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115051809451365144</id><published>2006-06-17T00:21:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2006-06-17T00:21:00.000-04:00</updated><title type='text'>Good thoughts Curtis; but from such an anecdote, c...</title><summary type='text'>Good thoughts Curtis; but from such an anecdote, can one deduce all sides of the story?  Kirby, were you in that class yourself?&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;If a work with notes can be marred by a noisy or rude audience, to suppose a silent work can&#39;t likewise be defeated or defaced by a (conceivedly) disrespectful audience-member, maybe stretches too widely an idealisation of the composer&#39;s assumed concept.  If </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115051809451365144'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115051809451365144'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html?showComment=1150518060000#c115051809451365144' title=''/><author><name>david raphael israel</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/07535589040322113419</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115045565880002211' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/115045565880002211' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1441140986"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="June 17, 2006"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115051010017806631</id><published>2006-06-16T22:08:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2006-06-16T22:08:00.000-04:00</updated><title type='text'>If Cage was indeed unhappy about the outburst of h...</title><summary type='text'>If Cage was indeed unhappy about the outburst of hilarity, I think that would have traduced his implied concept of the spontaneous quality of his art.  &lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Silence implied the filling of that &quot;empty&quot; space with ambient or &quot;environmental&quot; occurence, such as traffic, birdsong, and the &quot;hiss&quot; of being (what we hear in our ears when all external sound is removed--something I experienced for the</summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115051010017806631'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115051010017806631'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html?showComment=1150510080000#c115051010017806631' title=''/><author><name>Curtis Faville</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/01813159652010352331</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115045565880002211' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/115045565880002211' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1749964855"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="June 16, 2006"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115050114566673160</id><published>2006-06-16T19:39:00.000-04:00</published><updated>2006-06-16T19:39:00.000-04:00</updated><title type='text'>Still not sure what Cage&#39;s piece was.  Was it &quot;tha...</title><summary type='text'>Still not sure what Cage&#39;s piece was.  Was it &quot;that&#39;s it&quot;?  What if it meant that we each organize the world according to our own coordinates.  Imagine Marianne Moore&#39;s 4&#39;33&quot; compared to Allen Ginsberg&#39;s for instance. Even if they&#39;re sitting in the same place and hearing the same field of sound they will organize it differently.  When I studied at Naropa with Jerry Granelli in the music </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115050114566673160'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/115045565880002211/comments/default/115050114566673160'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html?showComment=1150501140000#c115050114566673160' title=''/><author><name>Kirby Olson</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/05952289700191142943</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2006/06/charles-olson-i-noted-week-ago.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-115045565880002211' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/115045565880002211' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1262696662"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="June 16, 2006"/></entry></feed>