<?xml version='1.0' encoding='UTF-8'?><?xml-stylesheet href="http://www.blogger.com/styles/atom.css" type="text/css"?><feed xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom' xmlns:openSearch='http://a9.com/-/spec/opensearchrss/1.0/' xmlns:gd="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post113124805579352367..comments</id><updated>2011-07-13T16:13:18.645-04:00</updated><title type='text'>Comments on Silliman&#39;s Blog: </title><link rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#feed' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/feeds/comments/default'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html'/><link rel="hub" href="http://pubsubhubbub.appspot.com/"/><link rel='next' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default?start-index=26&amp;max-results=25'/><author><name>Unknown</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><generator version='7.00' uri='http://www.blogger.com'>Blogger</generator><openSearch:totalResults>27</openSearch:totalResults><openSearch:startIndex>1</openSearch:startIndex><openSearch:itemsPerPage>25</openSearch:itemsPerPage><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113265724819054223</id><published>2005-11-22T06:00:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2005-11-22T06:00:00.000-05:00</updated><title type='text'>I think the breath line idea is hogwash because wr...</title><summary type='text'>I think the breath line idea is hogwash because writing is one thing and breathing is another, but is served Olson as a sort of heuristic device, though perhaps only he could really say how. The first poem quoted seems, actually, indebted to Auden, not so much in its form as in its atmosphere and &quot;stance&quot; [I hate to use the Bloomian word]; the second seems derived from WCW but has a more wayward </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113265724819054223'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113265724819054223'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html?showComment=1132657200000#c113265724819054223' title=''/><author><name>steve in taipei</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/blank.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113124805579352367' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/113124805579352367' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-846577922"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="November 22, 2005"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113233092604145317</id><published>2005-11-18T11:22:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2005-11-18T11:22:00.000-05:00</updated><title type='text'>My Dugan comment was a spoof, purely speculative. ...</title><summary type='text'>My Dugan comment was a spoof, purely speculative.  &lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;But it might be true.  Does anyone post here who knew him?</summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113233092604145317'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113233092604145317'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html?showComment=1132330920000#c113233092604145317' title=''/><author><name>Curtis Faville</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/01813159652010352331</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113124805579352367' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/113124805579352367' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1749964855"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="November 18, 2005"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113148107406251599</id><published>2005-11-08T15:17:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2005-11-08T15:17:00.000-05:00</updated><title type='text'>Samuel,That visual parallelism (of line length) an...</title><summary type='text'>Samuel,&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;That visual parallelism (of line length) and the imbalance of the syntax, the contrast between them, is exactly what I think makes the use of the line in this poem wonderful. It foregrounds the lines as units or &quot;moments&quot; even as it allows the sentences to keep on rolling.&lt;BR/&gt; &lt;BR/&gt;Kirby,&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;I&#39;m either embarassed or offended, depending on whether it&#39;s my fault or yours </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113148107406251599'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113148107406251599'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html?showComment=1131481020000#c113148107406251599' title=''/><author><name>andy gricevich</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/00797822725132844348</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113124805579352367' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/113124805579352367' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1436621432"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="November 08, 2005"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113147931873091550</id><published>2005-11-08T14:48:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2005-11-08T14:48:00.000-05:00</updated><title type='text'>By the way, notice how in Schuyler no two lines ar...</title><summary type='text'>By the way, notice how in Schuyler no two lines are quite ever paralel, in terms of syntactic/rhythmic structure? The closest pair being probably &quot;the feel of cold-&quot;/&quot;the air with motion&quot;. He probably has his linebreak in &#39;Sun-day&#39; for that type of effect. It also explains things like the two very different appearances of &#39;waiting weather&#39;. This seems remarkable to me for a poem which only uses </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113147931873091550'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113147931873091550'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html?showComment=1131479280000#c113147931873091550' title=''/><author><name>Samuel Vriezen</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/16229066450439148225</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113124805579352367' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/113124805579352367' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1125742735"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="November 08, 2005"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113147710707990925</id><published>2005-11-08T14:11:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2005-11-08T14:11:00.000-05:00</updated><title type='text'>I still couldn&#39;t quite understand the criterion th...</title><summary type='text'>I still couldn&#39;t quite understand the criterion that either of these poets use for their line breaks.  I know that Andy thinks we shouldn&#39;t think, we should just experience it (Look), but I imagine there is some kind of principle involved, and I didn&#39;t quite understand what &quot;soft enjambement&quot; entailed, or what poets are thinking these days about these abrupt lines.  Are they arbitrary?  Is there </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113147710707990925'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113147710707990925'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html?showComment=1131477060000#c113147710707990925' title=''/><author><name>Kirby Olson</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/05952289700191142943</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113124805579352367' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/113124805579352367' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1262696662"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="November 08, 2005"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113147269673688162</id><published>2005-11-08T12:58:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2005-11-08T12:58:00.000-05:00</updated><title type='text'>Me too -- but I don&#39;t think Curtis meant it like t...</title><summary type='text'>Me too -- but I don&#39;t think Curtis meant it like that.</summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113147269673688162'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113147269673688162'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html?showComment=1131472680000#c113147269673688162' title=''/><author><name>joe green</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/12257285616529795340</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113124805579352367' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/113124805579352367' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1849826838"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="November 08, 2005"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113147106537268728</id><published>2005-11-08T12:31:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2005-11-08T12:31:00.000-05:00</updated><title type='text'>That&#39;s high praise for a poet in my book.</title><summary type='text'>That&#39;s high praise for a poet in my book.</summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113147106537268728'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113147106537268728'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html?showComment=1131471060000#c113147106537268728' title=''/><author><name>Ian Keenan</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/16596558654735506132</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113124805579352367' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/113124805579352367' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1591342472"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="November 08, 2005"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113147029728915601</id><published>2005-11-08T12:18:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2005-11-08T12:18:00.000-05:00</updated><title type='text'>You still have Curtis.  Did a good job.&quot;Sort of li...</title><summary type='text'>You still have Curtis.  Did a good job.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;&quot;Sort of like a drunken Irish Catullus bitching about not getting laid on Saturday night, and settling for watching the Boston Patriots on a bar screen instead.&quot;</summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113147029728915601'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113147029728915601'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html?showComment=1131470280000#c113147029728915601' title=''/><author><name>joe green</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/12257285616529795340</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113124805579352367' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/113124805579352367' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1849826838"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="November 08, 2005"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113146995850710182</id><published>2005-11-08T12:12:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2005-11-08T12:12:00.000-05:00</updated><title type='text'>I lose another one of my fellow Alan Dugan-bashers...</title><summary type='text'>I lose another one of my fellow Alan Dugan-bashers to a good night&#39;s sleep.</summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113146995850710182'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113146995850710182'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html?showComment=1131469920000#c113146995850710182' title=''/><author><name>Ian Keenan</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/16596558654735506132</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113124805579352367' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/113124805579352367' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1591342472"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="November 08, 2005"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113146765424442802</id><published>2005-11-08T11:34:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2005-11-08T11:34:00.000-05:00</updated><title type='text'>A revised opinion:  Today -- mentally fresher than...</title><summary type='text'>A revised opinion:  Today -- mentally fresher than last night after a long day -- I went over the poems again out loud, and discovered the content redeems them -- or at least my first impression of them, which was already jaded by less skillful examples I&#39;ve recently seen using the same device.  But I would tend to concur with Curtis here.  The content had better be very engaging and the form </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113146765424442802'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113146765424442802'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html?showComment=1131467640000#c113146765424442802' title=''/><author><name>Brian Campbell</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/17182888011015400963</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113124805579352367' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/113124805579352367' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1565548225"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="November 08, 2005"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113146454677688998</id><published>2005-11-08T10:42:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2005-11-08T10:42:00.000-05:00</updated><title type='text'>On the other side of the coin, being restricted to...</title><summary type='text'>On the other side of the coin, being restricted to lines of a certain length, can be correspondingly tiresome, if unrelieved by surprise.  I often think of narrower poems as &quot;thinner&quot; and easier.  Except with someone like Zukofsky, who actually seems to say more, the shorter his lines get.</summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113146454677688998'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113146454677688998'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html?showComment=1131464520000#c113146454677688998' title=''/><author><name>Curtis Faville</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/01813159652010352331</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113124805579352367' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/113124805579352367' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1749964855"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="November 08, 2005"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113144034037549723</id><published>2005-11-08T03:59:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2005-11-08T03:59:00.000-05:00</updated><title type='text'>It makes me draw quick breaths, thrilled, &quot;aroused...</title><summary type='text'>It makes me draw quick breaths, thrilled, &quot;aroused.&quot; It&#39;s a mental/physical thing, and each likes to look at the other and get wowed.</summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113144034037549723'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113144034037549723'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html?showComment=1131440340000#c113144034037549723' title=''/><author><name>andy gricevich</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/00797822725132844348</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113124805579352367' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/113124805579352367' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1436621432"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="November 08, 2005"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113143554479037264</id><published>2005-11-08T02:39:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2005-11-08T02:39:00.000-05:00</updated><title type='text'>I call a lot of these &quot;leave-you-hangin&#39;&quot; line bre...</title><summary type='text'>I call a lot of these &quot;leave-you-hangin&#39;&quot; line breaks -- where practically anything could follow in the next line, so the line break&#39;s purpose is not to express breath or pause but to leave you guessing during that fraction of a second as the eye moves from the end of one line to the beginning of the next.  Used occasionally with great care it can be very effective. But used constantly as here, </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113143554479037264'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113143554479037264'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html?showComment=1131435540000#c113143554479037264' title=''/><author><name>Brian Campbell</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/17182888011015400963</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113124805579352367' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/113124805579352367' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1565548225"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="November 08, 2005"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113142080761532741</id><published>2005-11-07T22:33:00.001-05:00</published><updated>2005-11-07T22:33:00.001-05:00</updated><title type='text'>The other thing I&#39;d like to comment on is that not...</title><summary type='text'>The other thing I&#39;d like to comment on is that not only is there a minimal use of words per line but this is seems entirely intentional.  I often use this as a way of focusing attention to the central notion that drives a poem on.  It is whittled down to a bare minimum...no extraneous words which is probably (to me) more important than the actual meter or syllable count.  Extraneous words i.e. </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113142080761532741'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113142080761532741'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html?showComment=1131420780001#c113142080761532741' title=''/><author><name>Lady Jane</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/04555982712708881025</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113124805579352367' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/113124805579352367' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1542572767"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="November 07, 2005"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113142079363795780</id><published>2005-11-07T22:33:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2005-11-07T22:33:00.000-05:00</updated><title type='text'>It would take a good deal of explanation to show h...</title><summary type='text'>It would take a good deal of explanation to show how these seemingly random line breaks grew out of a frustration with the rigidity of the poetic line of the 19th Century.  Pound was a great believer in the integrity of the line, as was Eliot.  Pound:  &quot;Poetry should be at least as well written as prose.&quot;  Putting aside what Pound&#39;s references were in writing that dictum, it opens up an </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113142079363795780'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113142079363795780'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html?showComment=1131420780000#c113142079363795780' title=''/><author><name>Curtis Faville</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/01813159652010352331</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113124805579352367' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/113124805579352367' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1749964855"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="November 07, 2005"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113141879801072421</id><published>2005-11-07T21:59:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2005-11-07T21:59:00.000-05:00</updated><title type='text'>Hmm.  The universality of the Dugan is apparent bu...</title><summary type='text'>Hmm.  The universality of the Dugan is apparent but I don&#39;t think limited to the Holocaust per se.  A reading such as that sets up antagonisms.  As a Shia muslim I can only caution one that taking something like that and politicizing it reduces it&#39;s univerality....literally, it&#39;s transcendence.  There&#39;ve been many such Holocausts on this planet and to me the poem speaks more of the repetitive </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113141879801072421'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113141879801072421'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html?showComment=1131418740000#c113141879801072421' title=''/><author><name>Lady Jane</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/04555982712708881025</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113124805579352367' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/113124805579352367' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1542572767"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="November 07, 2005"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113141435191282677</id><published>2005-11-07T20:45:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2005-11-07T20:45:00.000-05:00</updated><title type='text'>Sorry, those were really three questions, in two c...</title><summary type='text'>Sorry, those were really three questions, in two clusters. Can&#39;t count to three like I used to.</summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113141435191282677'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113141435191282677'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html?showComment=1131414300000#c113141435191282677' title=''/><author><name>andy gricevich</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/00797822725132844348</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113124805579352367' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/113124805579352367' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1436621432"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="November 07, 2005"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113141429144740087</id><published>2005-11-07T20:44:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2005-11-07T20:44:00.000-05:00</updated><title type='text'>How to distinguish?...Well, does it seem to do any...</title><summary type='text'>How to distinguish?...&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Well, does it seem to do anything for the poem? If so, what?&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Do you like it?&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;The first of these two questions seems to point to more interesting answers, some of which could explain the answer to the second question.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;It&#39;s a fine question you&#39;ve asked, but I think the only answer is &quot;look.&quot;&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Andy</summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113141429144740087'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113141429144740087'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html?showComment=1131414240000#c113141429144740087' title=''/><author><name>andy gricevich</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/00797822725132844348</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113124805579352367' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/113124805579352367' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1436621432"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="November 07, 2005"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113140611302742562</id><published>2005-11-07T18:28:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2005-11-07T18:28:00.000-05:00</updated><title type='text'>Accepting the differientiation between soft and (I...</title><summary type='text'>Accepting the differientiation between soft and (I&#39;m assuming) hard enjambment, raises a question for me: why?  Why use a soft enjambment and not a drop-line for example?&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;I suppose I can offer a preliminary answer to myself that if you want to create an effect in the reading of constantly being pulled down to the next line by the dependence of the word that is left just before the break,</summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113140611302742562'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113140611302742562'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html?showComment=1131406080000#c113140611302742562' title=''/><author><name>Jehza</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/09527708835511076143</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113124805579352367' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/113124805579352367' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-355639647"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="November 07, 2005"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113140495338550293</id><published>2005-11-07T18:09:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2005-11-07T18:09:00.000-05:00</updated><title type='text'>The first poem quoted that might reward scrutiny:1...</title><summary type='text'>The first poem quoted that might reward scrutiny:&lt;BR/&gt;1. The accumulation of plural nouns combined with explicit reference to numeric and naming systems, which mimic imperialist ideas of succession--negated by the zero [read as &#39;other&#39;] &lt;BR/&gt;2. Religious symbolism-killing lambs--shared iconography but with different implications for each &#39;sect&#39; deflated by the bathos of &#39;gravy&#39;&lt;BR/&gt;3. Poem is </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113140495338550293'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113140495338550293'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html?showComment=1131404940000#c113140495338550293' title=''/><author><name>ideaist.wordpress.com</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/11326216841108224361</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113124805579352367' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/113124805579352367' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-805121679"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="November 07, 2005"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113139445513505067</id><published>2005-11-07T15:14:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2005-11-07T15:14:00.000-05:00</updated><title type='text'>Good stuff, Ron--the poems and the examination the...</title><summary type='text'>Good stuff, Ron--the poems and the examination thereof. &lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Your description of Schuyler (in the second-to-last paragraph) has to do with the audible pause and its necessary elision. You treat the silent reading as a sort of ghost of the poem read aloud. But, for me, the line breaks have a very different function as &lt;I&gt;visual&lt;/I&gt; pauses than they do as sonic ones. I have to read the </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113139445513505067'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113139445513505067'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html?showComment=1131394440000#c113139445513505067' title=''/><author><name>andy gricevich</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/00797822725132844348</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113124805579352367' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/113124805579352367' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1436621432"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="November 07, 2005"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113138899870997037</id><published>2005-11-07T13:43:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2005-11-07T13:43:00.000-05:00</updated><title type='text'>Excellent post, Ron.</title><summary type='text'>Excellent post, Ron.</summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113138899870997037'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113138899870997037'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html?showComment=1131388980000#c113138899870997037' title=''/><author><name>Pris</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/03970753027686923295</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113124805579352367' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/113124805579352367' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-2102071197"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="November 07, 2005"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113138342828469512</id><published>2005-11-07T12:10:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2005-11-07T12:10:00.000-05:00</updated><title type='text'>Say that Schuyler trusts everything to the device ...</title><summary type='text'>Say that Schuyler trusts everything to the device where Dugan thinks against it? I&#39;m thinking of the moments where the poems comment on their own method. For Schuyler, &quot;like shaking / out a rug the dust / hangs and swims / and shows a pattern / for a while, unstill.&quot; For Dugan, &quot;Every item has / been cut out of its nature, / wrapped disguised as something / else, and sold clean by fractions.&quot; For</summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113138342828469512'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113138342828469512'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html?showComment=1131383400000#c113138342828469512' title=''/><author><name>Kirk Johnson</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/05529898733002317995</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113124805579352367' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/113124805579352367' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-895736745"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="November 07, 2005"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113138204628240424</id><published>2005-11-07T11:47:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2005-11-07T11:47:00.000-05:00</updated><title type='text'>It is not an accident that lines that utilize this...</title><summary type='text'>It is not an accident that lines that utilize this enjambment, that don&#39;t &#39;stand on their own&#39; which doesn&#39;t neccesarily imply standing, but falling into opacity or individual interpretation, are in poems that ask the reader to follow along a specific scheme of imagery and a specific subtext. such as the two here.  Part of what is lost when the line doesn&#39;t stand on its own is the individual </summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113138204628240424'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113138204628240424'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html?showComment=1131382020000#c113138204628240424' title=''/><author><name>Ian Keenan</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/16596558654735506132</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113124805579352367' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/113124805579352367' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-1591342472"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="November 07, 2005"/></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113137746428819377</id><published>2005-11-07T10:31:00.000-05:00</published><updated>2005-11-07T10:31:00.000-05:00</updated><title type='text'>Actually, Kirby,I&#39;m pro both. Maybe more pro Schuy...</title><summary type='text'>Actually, Kirby,&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;I&#39;m pro both. Maybe more pro Schuyler, but it&#39;s a matter of degree, not kind.</summary><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113137746428819377'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='https://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/113124805579352367/comments/default/113137746428819377'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html?showComment=1131377460000#c113137746428819377' title=''/><author><name>Ron</name><uri>https://www.blogger.com/profile/09250950725876683923</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='https://img1.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' href='https://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2005/11/alan-dugan-again.html' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3738579.post-113124805579352367' source='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/3738579/posts/default/113124805579352367' type='text/html'/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.itemClass" value="pid-660918411"/><gd:extendedProperty name="blogger.displayTime" value="November 07, 2005"/></entry></feed>