========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 10:33:16 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Silem Mohammad" Subject: Re: metonymy/contiguity Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Jonathan Mayhew writes: >Sorry, but I don't see how [Tolstoy's focus on Anna Karenina's handbag] is >a metonymy! ... >A metonymy is the substitution of one term for another in which the >two terms bore some relation to each other. >... "Congress attacked Madison Avenue" (Madison Avenue represents, >metonymically, the advertising industry) >... The idea of contiguity is especially misleading, since metonymy >usually goes along the lines of cause for effect, effect for cause, >part for whole, characteristic for object, container for the thing >contained, etc... Not simply two objects that are simply next to >each other or adjoining. But Jakobson's insight is that mere contiguity is *sufficient* to produce the apprehension of cause/effect or part/whole relations, and thus sufficient to be employed as a rhetorical figure--as in the case of Tolstoy. Anna's handbag is not just something that's always physically connected to her; by virtue of repeated emphasis, it assumes an implicit significance as embodying a key aspect of her character. What exactly that aspect is need not be spelled out in order for the metonymic function to take hold; it's enough that the juxtaposition enter our imaginations as potentially significant. The relations container/contained, part/whole, cause/effect & so forth are all relations of contiguity at some level, & to insist that metonymy only consists in cases where those relations are emphatically laid out is to miss the relativeness of figural expression in general: it always depends on context, on some agreement, spoken or unspoken to interpret things figurally. Thus the cigarette in the Godfather movie as well (are we talking about the big conference scene in _Godfather III_, BTW?): it cd be either a metaphor or a metonymy, depending on whether it's viewed as a general symbol of something or other (some kind of reflection on the mechanistic way in which human activities continue to produce physical effects even after the death of the producer, for example), or as an extension of the particular character who was smoking it, as in Tolstoy. It cd also just be a cigarette sitting in the ashtray, but the fact that the camera has chose to fix on it prevents us from justifying such a dismissal. Even if the camera had chosen a different, completely irrelevant object (a salt shaker, an electrical socket, a purple My Little Pony), our brains wd go crazy looking for a connection, & at least structurally, that image wd assume a metonymic or metaphoric status ... it wd become a metaphoric or metonymic vehicle without a tenor (or at least an occluded or imaginary tenor). >My bathroom is contiguous to my bedroom, but this has nothing to do >with the trope of metonymy. Not in itself, naturally--but it cd very easily be turned to this purpose. For example, if you say, "I'm going in the bathroom to brush my teeth now," in a context where it is explicitly understood that this means you are getting ready for bed. Or, conversely, "Which door is yr bedroom?" where it is understood by the guest that the only bathroom in the house is accessible only through the host's bedroom. These are obviously not highly rhetorical applications of the trope--in fact, it is banal even to call it a trope in these mundane examples--but they do illustrate channels of communication that shortcut signification by recourse to figural modes of linguistic expression. --Kasey ............................ """""""""""""""""""""""""""" K. SILEM MOHAMMAD Santa Cruz, California immerito@hotmail.com http://communities.msn.com/KSilemMohammad _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 14:07:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harold Teichman Subject: What Jakobson got wrong about metalanguage Comments: To: jmayhew@eagle.cc.ukans.edu, GthomGt@cs.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit George Thompson wrote: "Somebody, I don't know who it was, suggested earlier that Jakobson's take on metalanguage was misguided." Jonathan Mayhew wrote: "I too would like to hear from the person who said Jakobson was mistaken in his definition of metalanguage, and to hear George's refutation of this other person!" I’m afraid that mysterious other person was me. I’ll try to explain: I’ll confine my remarks to Jakobson’s essays in ‘Language in Literature’, since that’s all I’ve read by him so far, and that’s what most poets and critics cite over and over. If Jakobson has expressed himself more powerfully and rigorously in other writings on these issues, I invite George or anyone else to point me to them. The term ‘metalanguage’ is attributed to Tarski, a logician who is as big in his field as Jakobson is in linguistics. My OED Supplement has "a language which supplies terms for the analysis of an ‘object’ language; a system of propositions about other propositions", which is not bad for a brief definition. The first quote is from Tarski in 1935; the remaining quotes are from philosophers and journalists, with the exception of one from Hjelmslev. Under the entry ‘metametalanguage’ is a quote from Chomsky. These are the only two linguists quoted. Neither of them is using the term in the sense that Jakobson does. Under the heading ‘metalinguistic’ is a nice remark by Reichenbach which is perhaps apposite to this debate: "The use of a metalinguistic vocabulary is not a sufficient criterion for a more advanced state of logical analysis". Tarski introduced the distinction in the course of a very technical consideration on the nature of truth, in order to find a technical means of avoiding famous paradoxes like the Liar. It was essential to him that there was a distinction between object- and metalanguage: it was possible to say things (predicate things) in the latter that were not sayable in the former. Since then the term has been widely applied in logic (and in those branches of linguistics that pay attention to formal logic, which does not, alas, include the structuralist branch), and extended to cover the axiom schemata and statements defining the _syntax_ (N.B. syntax, not semantics) of _formal_ languages and systems. (I don’t deny that the formal metatlanguage approach sometimes has a semantic aspect, but I do deny that it takes the simplistic form that Jakobson advocates.) For example, in ordinary propositional logic (an ‘object language’) containing the symbols ‘p’, ‘q’, ‘~’, etc., where the letters are conventionally interpreted as statements or propositions and ‘~’ as ‘not’, we may write a quasi-formal metalanguage statement defining an infinite set of well-formed sentence-schemata like this one: ‘if A is well-formed, ~A is also well-formed’. Here ‘A’ may be termed a metalanguage variable. The foregoing metalanguage statement tells us that p, ~p, ~~p, ~~~p, etc., among other forms, are well-formed (i.e. grammatical). Note two things here: (1) this statement does not involve any attribution of identity or equality; rather it _generates_ a set of related statement-forms; and (2) at this stage of the game there is no semantics yet. We are _not_ saying that ‘p’ means the same as ‘~p’ or is substitutable for it, which would be nonsense, given the eventual semantic use to which we want to put these marks. The term has been further extended, entirely _losing_ the distinctions that were originally introduced in logic between object- and metalanguage, to mean roughly any ‘language about language’. Here’s where Jakobson gets into trouble. Jakobson cites Tarski and Carnap as authors/authorities to back him up, but he demonstrates _no_ acquaintance with and exposes none of the subtle and difficult technical philosophical context of their discourse. He doesn’t say something like "I don’t understand Tarski’s paper, but I’m going to borrow his term and use it informally as follows"; rather he gives the reader the impression that there’s no discontinuity between his and Tarski’s use of the term. Jakobson evidences at least 3 big misconceptions about metalanguage (in the essays in ‘Language in Literature’): 1. It is (he thinks) fundamentally reducible to statements of equation, identity or substitutability. "… all these equational sentences…" (p. 69). "… combining synonymic expressions into an equational sentence A = A ("_Mare_ is _the female of the horse_") (p. 71). [One presumes he means ‘A = B’ here.] I have given a simple example above (from propositional logic) which is not an equation. Such examples could be multiplied. 2. It is (he thinks) fundamentally concerned with _meaning_, not syntactic form. "We may speak in English (as metalanguage) about English (as object language) and interpret English words and sentences by means of English synonyms, circumlocutions, and paraphrases." (p. 103) The same example above (if A is well-formed, so is ~A) does not interpret or paraphrase. It is a purely formal, grammatical rule with no immediate semantic content. Different semantics could be attached to these expressions from the usual ones. Incidentally, a whole host of other complications about meaning could be raised here too. Should we distinguish between dictionary meaning, Fregean Sinn and "who I meant when I just spoke"? Not a hint of such things from Jakobson. What might the formalizable principles be that govern the generation of legitimate paraphrases? If we haven’t got any, then it doesn’t make much sense to talk about a metalanguage in the logical sense. 3. It is always (he thinks) talk about the ‘code’ (a term taken to be utterly transparent and without need of definition in these essays) of a language. "… we practice metalanguage without realizing the metalingual character of our operations. Whenever the addresser and/or the addressee need to check up on whether they use the same code, speech is focused on the code; it performs a METALINGUAL, (i.e., glossing) function." (p. 69). On p. 69 he gives a rather hilariously contrived example ("The sophomore was plucked." "But what is plucked?"…) of what he takes to be a typical ‘I don’t quite follow you’ situation. But the example misses the point, because typically when one asks for a clarification or paraphrase, one knows all the words and recognizes the grammatical forms just used (and thus one is fully in command of the ‘code’, under just about any possible interpretation of that slippery structuralist term). The suggestion that when I say "Sorry, I don’t quite catch your drift," that’s a ‘code check’, as if we were unsure of the meaning of a cryptogram, is simply ridiculous. The famous essays in this book just skip like stones over the surface, rather breathlessly, without even glancing into the depths. What really annoys me about the Jakobson of ‘Language in Literature’ is a complete inability to reason carefully combined with an elephantine over-fondness for learned terminology and learned references. Wittgenstein had a funny name for this way of arguing: ‘Babylon and Syria’. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 13:05:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: adventures in poultry In-Reply-To: <73.7343380.27058524@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Apolgies Bill--you are right--shd read more Derrida--but wasn't taking a swipe at him as don't know enough to anyway--only read two books long ago one in french was very clear but one i read in english i cdn'tmake head or tale of that was long ago--i probably cdn't understand either one in my present advanced state of mental decay may be some problems are with translations? also many of these things he writes about mean something differently in the context of Frecnh thinking, or European than for us in us-a But one thing serious i was taking swipe at the description in the post, not of the work being described alsoi think it is a complete myth that speech was dominant and not writing that was a very long time ago St Augustine was shocked to see St Jerome reading silently! "no one had ever HEARD of such a thing"! i think in America maybe we get it confused as for example when Olson wrote Projective Verse piece in 1950--it is SPEECH he wants to get back! part of it may be rebellion of one generation against the previous one, from which it takes what is of use to/for itself and then moves on-- In Derrida's case as was long ago i don't recall all his positions-- but traditionally writing was an instrument of power, a sign of power by far most people could't read to me i think Ring Lardner put it best re writing/speech: "Shut up he explained." to me that shows it is more a both/and than an either/or but then i think maybe i tend to bet on both sides at same time here-- that way as Joey Pesci explains to Bobby De Niro in RAGING BULL: "If you win, you win. If you lose, you still win. You can't lose. So what the ***** you worried about?" --onwo/ards dbc On Fri, 29 Sep 2000 Austinwja@AOL.COM wrote: > In a message dated 9/28/00 8:08:54 PM, dbchirot@CSD.UWM.EDU writes: > > << Touche, Mark! > > actually--the description here sounds to me like first grade > lessons > in reading-- > >> > > Hi David. Seems I must repeat and repeat. What has been ignored in both > your and Mark's responses is my focus on speech vs. writing as a hierarchy > with speech on the top rung. Derrida violates that privileging of speech and > I perceive the langpoets as the closest thing we have in poetry to a similar > dissembling. They talked about it in print, after all, so this is not > reaching on my part. My comment which you both refer to immediately follows > that point. In context, it is quite nonsensical to read my comment as > placing Olson or Williams within a Derridian "circle." Both poets are firmly > rooted in the hierarchy (and great poets both). Derrida collapses speech > into writing. Its potential to mean does not issue from intention, or voice, > or a new American language that somehow transcends, or the breath (which > clearly privileges voice as in Olson). For Derrida, the system must be in > place for any one of its elements to mean. Writing is not a secondary > version of speech. Rather, at best, speech may be understood as a subtext > within writing. Langpo is somewhere on this path--Olson and Williams are > not. Gotta read the entire post, guys, and put it all together before you > jump. Gotta read lots of Derrida too since it's quite impossible for me or > anyone to repeat his arguments in total on the list. I must by necessity > assume more than passing familiarity. Agree or disagree about my view of > langpo, love Derrida or hate him, but anyone can be misprisoned out of > context. You don't really want to do that, do you? That's really first > grade stuff. Best wishes to you both, Bill > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 13:14:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Carfagna, Richard" Subject: Maximus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Was wondering if anybody knows if the Maximus poems which Olson and/or Butterick kept out of the definitive version of the book exist in a collected form anywhere ? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 17:21:27 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Vancouver Videopoem Festival MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE hi, if anyone is going to this out in vancouver i would love a report. thanks, kevin hehir PRESS RELEASE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Sept. 26, 2000=20 For more information, contact: Heather Haley/Executive Director Phone (604) 535-6514, Fax (604) 536-3691 hshaley@emspace.com www.edgewisecafe.org see or be seen The Edgewise ElectroLit Centre=20 &=20 Pacific Cin=E9math=E8que present The Vancouver Videopoem Festival On Friday and Saturday, November 3 and 4, 2000, the Edgewise ElectroLit Cen= tre is hosting the second annual Vancouver Videopoem Festival at Pacific Ci= n=E9math=E8que, Canada's first and only poetry film festival. Emceed by exs= tatic oral improv poet, Kedrick James, the festival will present videopoems= from across Canada and around the world. Our international call for submis= sions has resulted in a diverse range of work in this fledgling medium. Vid= eopoetry festivals occur in Chicago, San Francisco (known as the Cine-Poem = Festival) and Roma, Italy. This event is the first of its kind in Canada and provides a much needed ve= nue for the presentation of Canadian work in this hybrid genre, a genre whi= ch receives scant attention in our country despite being a creative field o= f growing interest for Canadian artists since the 1970's. The most innovati= ve treatments are explored and presented. Work from Canada and beyond will = give local audiences a survey of the accomplishments in videopoetry in the = past twenty years. The selection of works is a broad range of mostly Canadi= an artists, a smaller amount of international artists to represent the cour= se of the medium's development; a diversity of poetic styles and video stra= tegies and will represent a balance of historical material with contemporar= y and recently produced material. Some of the featured videopoems in this y= ear's festival: In My Car by Mike Hoolboom--Toronto, Buffalo Roaming by Kir= k Miles and Fred Hollis--Calgary, Exquisite Corpse by Una Knox--Vancouver, = Poesia Visual by Arias & Aragon of Lima, Peru, Tag=A9 by Steve Savage--Mont= real, The Voice of God by Joel Baird--Portland, Oregon, Physic Defense Trai= ning for Ex-Lovers by Doug Knott, Los Angeles, Hundred Block Rock by Bud Os= born--Vancouver, Ebonic Plague by Ian Moore and James Cagney, Jr. and Borde= rstasis by Guillermo Gomez-Pena--both from San Francisco, Dragonfly--Kristi= ina Szabo-Toronto Visions by Annie Frazier-Henry--Vancouver, White Walls an= d Self-Doubt by Charles-Eric Billard, The Bather by Cameron Esler and David= Bateman--Peterborough, Ontario, This Is A Photograph of Me a treatment of = the Margaret Atwood poem by Ericka MacPherson, Sleeping Car by Monique Moum= blow and A Smell--Donna Szoke both from Vancouver.=20 The goal of the second annual Vancouver Videopoem Festival is to cultivate = works, discussion and an audience for this burgeoning art form that integra= tes poetry and video-like visuals, be they produced by a camera or through = computer programming. The EEC aims to develop a forum for defining, legitim= izing and nuturing work in this hybrid genre (also known as poetry-film or = cine-poetry) and the artists who produce it in Canada. The festival compone= nts will include a Poetry and Video Workshop on Thursday, Nov.2 at Video In= with Jill Battson and Kurt Heintz, two nights of screenings, a panel discu= ssion and an awards gala recognizing the achievements in this genre in vari= ous production and creation capacities. To speak at the festival on the ori= gins of the genre, its forms, and on the artistic and cultural context in w= hich it can flourish, are Alma Lee, Artistic Director of the Vancouver Inte= rnational Writers Festival, renowned poet and author, Micheal Turner, award= -winning poetry film producers and media artists, Jill Battson of Toronto, = ON and Kurt Heintz of Chicago, Il, and British-born Director of the Cine-Po= em Festival, Ian Moore. Kicking off the screenings will be dynamic performa= nce poetry by Hilary Peach on Friday, and Adeena Karasick on Saturday. One = of Montreal's core poet/performers, Exploding Head Man, Ian Ferrier, will b= e featured at the Awards Gala on Saturday night. What is a videopoem? A wedding of word and image. The Edgewise ElectroLit Centre is a nonprofit society whose mandate is to m= ake poetry and new media accessible to all members of society through educa= tional programs and electronic forums. We employ communications technology = to widen the audience of Canadian poetry and give poets, multi media artist= s and youth the opportunity to use, learn, and create with technology. Our = electronic magazine, the Edgewise Cafe, can be viewed and heard at . Poets featured with audio include , Wayde Compton, bill bis= sett, Sheri-D Wilson, Hilary Peach, Alexandra Oliver, Miranda Pearson and J= udy MacInnes Jr. Videopoems can be viewed in the Multimedia section. Funding for The Edgewise ElectroLit Centre's Vancouver Videopoem Festival h= as been received from the Canada Council for the Arts. Heather Haley-Executive Director Edgewise ElectroLit Centre The EEC is a non-profit organization that makes poetry and new media accessible to all members of society=20 through a variety of=20 and electronic forums=20 and educational programs. PH (604) 535-6514 FAX (604) 536-3691=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9067/10/_/_/_/970165834/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To Post a message, send it to: canadianpoetryassociation@eGroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: canadianpoetryassociation-unsubscr= ibe@egroups.com CPA Resource Center moved to http://www3.sympatico.ca/cpa National CPA is t= he same at http://www.mirror.org/cpa ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:08:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mk Francisco Subject: announcement In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Scout Magazine is pleased to announce the release of Issue #1 featuring Cheryl Burket, John Olson, and Elizabeth Treadwell. We are currently accepting submissions for Issue #2. Deadline: January 2, 2001. We invite submissions of innovative writing and art including, reviews, interviews, poetics, poetry, short fiction and creative non-fiction. Poetry/Poetics/Art Scout Attn: Sarah Mangold 601 East Denny Way, #404 Seattle, WA 98122 Short fiction/Reviews/Interviews/Creative non-fiction Scout Attn: MK Francisco 1302 North 49th Street Seattle, WA 98103 http://scoutmagazine.homestead.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 17:40:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: more The Impossibly on Flood Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Read more of Laird Hunt's novel The Impossibly on Flood by going here: http://communities.iuniverse.com/bin/circle.asp?circleid=512 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 16:32:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Poetic Recipes from the Cutting Edge In-Reply-To: <39D4ACE3.A878E7FA@megsinet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Subsubpoetics > >Why is there no poetry cookbook? > >Neidecker has one, it was a chap from overlook >about thanksgiving & food prep >released in 82 > >Be well > >David Baratier, Editor Margaret Atwood, as one might have expected, edited one that was published in 1987. gb -- George Bowering Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 16:28:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: wcw and tthe wasteland In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Monsieur Chirot, > > >Apropos Skull and Bones: Auden: Poets make good spies. Well, that would include Christopher Marlowe, Basil Bunting, and George Whalley. gb -- George Bowering Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 20:56:14 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Thompson Subject: metonymy: was Re: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, Jonathan, I'm glad to see that Harold Teichman and I are not the only ones on this list interested in this problem. Let's see if I can clarify things. I think that the relationship between Anna Karenina and her handbag is the same as the relationship between the mafia thug in the Godfather and the cigarette that had just recently been in touch with his lips. The relationship is significant [at least intially] not because of some metaphorical equation of the one with the other. No, it is significant because of the habitual association of the two through contact. Look, when a Vedic magician wants to make me fall in love with his client or if he wants to make me sick unto death, he takes a lock of my hair, or clippings of my finger nails, or some remnants of my clothing --say my underwear -- and he insinuates these into a doll, a metaphor of me, upon which he utters mantras, pours potions, and performs his magic on me. The relationship between me and these things which once had belonged to me is metonymical, whereas the relationship between me and the doll is metaphorical. Because these objects have had intimacy with me and my body they stand for me in the magical operations that he will perform on them, and therefore on me. When I can no longer see Anna Karenina because she is dead and buried, it is her handbag or some other thing that I recall having rubbed up against her that I use as a fetish to remind me of her. That is metonymy. When I see smoke and think that there is fire, the relationship that I am responding to is a metonymical one. When Robinson Crusoe saw Friday's footprints in the sand, he knew that he had company. The relationship between Friday and his footprints is metonymical. The relationship between Jackie Robinson and the number 42 is metonymical. Okay? Surely, these relationships are NOT metaphorical. Right? Now, as for my exam question. In fact, I accepted either answer [metaphor or metonymy] as correct, depending on the strength of the explanation. But I found that the best answers were those that saw that the relationship between the cigarette and the mafia thug consisted of BOTH, or could be explained as such. Those who called this relation metonymical explained that the cigarette was significant because of its immediate physical contact with the thug: he has been snuffed out, but his cigarette has a few more moments of life left in it. Ah, life is short! Those who called this relation metaphorical explained that the cigarette was significant because the smoke of a cigarette was metaphorically LIKE the smoke of the human spirit. Ah, life is short! In my opinion, the best answers were those which argued that the relationship was BOTH metonymical AND metaphorical [I think that the Paul Auster -- Wayne Wang movie *Smoke* plays on this ambiguity very nicely by the way]. Anna Karenina's had so much power on Tolstoy's imagination not because he thought that she was a handbag. No, it was because of the intimacy which that bag had with her. Perhaps we could say that a metonymical relation is a fetishistic one. Certainly this one was. No? More on metalanguage later. Jakobson was not confused about these things. George In a message dated 9/28/00 11:07:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jmayhew@EAGLE.CC.UKANS.EDU writes: > George wrote: "for example he [Jakobson] cites Tolstoy's focus on Anna > Karenina's handbag while she is committing suicide. This example is > notorious. Notorious." > > Sorry, but I don't see how this is a metonymy! Nor the Godfather examples. > A metonymy is the substitution of one term for another in which the two > terms bore some relation to each other. > > "I bought a Picasso" (I bought a painting made by Picasso) > > "Congress attacked Madison Avenue" (Madison Avenue represents, > metonymically, the advertising industry) > > Now if I used the word "handbag" in a sentence in which the word stood in > for Anna K, that would be a metonymy. > > "Here comes old 'big purse'." > > "The suits are nervous about the impending restructuring." > > Suits here means people who wear suits, in other words, the management of > the company. > > "He is a skirt chaser." Skirt, metonymically, means women. > > This is what I originally meant when I said that Jakobson defined metonymy > in a way that led to noone knowing what it was any more! The idea of > contiguity is especially misleading, since metonymy usually goes along the > lines of cause for effect, effect for cause, part for whole, characteristic > for object, container for the thing contained, etc... Not simply two > objects that are simply next to each other or adjoining. My bathroom is > contiguous to my bedroom, but this has nothing to do with the trope of > metonymy. > > I too would like to hear from the person who said Jakobson was mistaken in > his definition of metalanguage, and to hear George's refutation of this > other person! > > Jonathan > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 23:34:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: Re: bring me a shrubbery In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit All this brilliance expended to hit the wrong target. Weird. Expected. > From: Gwyn McVay > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:11:52 -0400 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: bring me a shrubbery > >>>> Early on, Eliot began to sing the philosophical/visionary songs he then > spent a lifetime perfecting. Like George Herbert Walker Bush, he strode > full formed into life - an adult.<<< > > I want it noted that the letters in George Herbert Walker Bush anagram > perfectly into HUGE BERSERK REBEL WARTHOG. > > Anagram kabbalah don't lie-- > > Gwyn McVay > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 14:32:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: chris stroffolino Subject: OF RELATED INTERESTS TO FLUXUS FANS, 6-8pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CHRISTINE HILL, PILOT "The Invention, Presentation, and Filming of a Late Night Television Talk Show" At RONALD FELDMAN FINE ARTS 31 MERCER ST. SHOW RUNS TO OCt 14, 2000 PILOT TAPING OCTOBER 6--- CALL 226-3232- for more info..... "Emily Harvey Gallery, 537 Bway, NYC" wrote: > Emily Harvey Gallery Press Release > 537 Broadway at Spring > New York, NY 10012 > > September 16, 2000 > > Tel. 212 925-7651 > > Fax 212 966-0439 > > Alison Knowles: Footnotes > > objects, prints, illuminations, and exploded page works from the travel journal, Footnotes, published by Granary Books, New York City, 2000. > October 5 through October 28, 2000 > Tues-Sat, 11:00 - 6:00 > > Reception for artist: Thurs. Oct.5th, 6:00-8:00 > > Emily Harvey Gallery will present Footnotes, an exhibition of new work by Fluxus artist Alison Knowles. > This body of work reveals a range of innovations through combinations of objects, texts and unusual art materials. Conceived as an environment, the different components of the exhibit are based upon experiments regarding the nature of the page and the meaning of what a book can be. > The pieces reflect Knowles' instinct to note everyday events and continually re-examine those experiences, regardless of chronology and linear thinking. Her work is faithful to life experience and the nature of the materials. Large panels extending from the ceiling and walls are page like in their structure, containing various embedded elements and incorporating projections on a grand scale. Some pieces may be explored by gallery visitors through touch. Silkscreen and Palladium prints, as well as cyanotype reflect Knowles' mastery of printmaking. > The impetus for "Footnotes" is a lifelong continua of global travel, from which the artist has literally "picked up" things and created annotated journals. The concept of footnotes therefore is a means of referencing and reorganizing those travels, transferring the literary device into visual forms. > Well-known for her experimental performances and installations from the early 60s in association with Fluxus movement, and by her affiliation with Something Else Press, Knowles has continually investigated the form and content of books. Examples of her previous works include the monumentally scaled Big Book from l967 and a "walk-in" object The Book of Bean from l983 which was exhibited in the Venice Biennale in l990. > > In coordination with the exhibition, Granary Books is publishing Knowles's book Footnotes: Collage Journal, 30 Years, incorporating many of the elements of the exhibition but in a different form. There are actual footnotes by the artist here. Copies are available for sale at the gallery. > -- > Emily Harvey > S. Polo, 322 > 30125 Venice, Italy > > Tel 39 041 522 6727 > Fax 39 041 523 5147 > Email: Harvey@doge.it > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > To tell us you want no further contact please reply with the subject 'remove' to ehgallery@earthlink.net. You will be dropped from our list of recipients. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 23:46:22 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: recent additions to the INTERNALATIONAL DICTIONARY OF NEOLOGISMS Comments: To: webartery@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit recent additions to the INTERNALATIONAL DICTIONARY OF NEOLOGISMS http://net22.com/neologisms [never too late to send your own creations] adolf to attempt adapting or adopting a particular process for one's own use and to turn it into a massive failure. "Guess what? I adolfed your cookie recipe." [probably from Adolf Hitler] Umur Celikyay, rec'd 20 Nov 1999 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- agnostethered a drug to cure lack of religious feeling in viscious white dogs. [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- aklifej 1. mind in asylum 2. mind as a refugee [akl means "mind" or "brain" in Arabic refugie means "refugee" (pronounced like refuj) and refuge means asylum in French] word by mIEKAL aND, 1985, definition & source by Majolica, Sept 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- animisms Kinetic poetry for the Web with soul. Jim Andrews, 1999. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- antichilieteridoprolepticism opposition in word, thought or deed to the common but arithmetically unsound designation of the year 2000 as the first year of the third millennium of the Common Era. [From the Greek : anti="against", chili-eterid-= "period of 1,000 years, millennium", prolept-= "anticipation, taking beforehand", -ic= "adjectival suffix", -ism"belief= "system, practice" from the Stumpers list ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- antiversary The celebrated date of an event which is yet to occur. [combination of anticipation and anniversary] Thomas Smith, rec'd 12 Nov 1999 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- aptisterin an ointment which the manufacturer claims is a cure for visual illiteracy but really isn't and everyone knows it. [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- aptyojentmi a fake Japanese word. [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- archdark Any "art noir" creation--especially music, film or literature--that carries predominantly gothic, gloomy overtones. "I just saw the movie Kafka. It seriously bugged me... Completely archdark." Umur Celikyay, rec'd 20 Nov 1999 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- bastney the barricades where the rioters hide from their poltergeists. [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- beastamophone point at which the user and the microphone become a fully functioning unit-superb bliss between voice and device Cindy @ Advanced Office Services, rec'd 24 Apr 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- beezy "busy as a bee", rhymes with zoomorphic intensity mIEKAL aND, 25 Sept 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bilkentese Any bizarre combination of Engelese and Turkese. [from Bilkent University. Also called "Turklish"] Umur Celikyay, rec'd 20 Nov 1999 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- bijan Any heartthrob college girl, especially a rich, and unapproachable one. Umur Celikyay, rec'd 20 Nov 1999 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- blissturd indicative of poetry in general. [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- carbitrate a 20th century drug one should never try to revive onesself with. [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- cellarneds the ignorance one finds in any basement. [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- cortestyzone a drug which aids in the maintenence of pataphysical walking paths. [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Engelese A pet name for Lexical Transference, ie heavy use of English lexis in Turkish speech. Specifically, the English-infested pidgin Turkish that is spoken around Bilkent University. The term could also be used for the counterfeit language that is favored by students studying in any other English medium university in Turkey. [From Turkish "Ingiliz," English.] Umur Celikyay, rec'd 20 Nov 1999 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- entropanto 1. 'the heat death of language 2. a children's amusement performed in a dead language [Portmanteau of entropy and esperanto, with a dash of pantomime. (An entropantomime, logically, is the heat death of a children's amusement in a dead language...)] Gerry McCarthy, 1987 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- feci (fa jee') Turkish word meaning extremely, horrifically tragic. Funny in English because of it connotes "Feces." Umur Celikyay, rec'd 20 Nov 1999 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- genocine a free bootleg cure for the headaches caused by reading between the lines. [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- hngamawhirr 1. aromatic fluctuating perpetual constancy 2. a motivational chi energy 3. eroflorism mIEKAL aND, 25 Sept 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ideornackpo a blind but decorative philosopher who lives on the edge of town and makes his own glue from others' thoughts. [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- infoanimism Infoanimism, as in 'the web is in a state of infoanimism'. Not just animation as in motion but, for instance, as at Defib (IRC chat) there is a person in the words real time or, if not, then the words are animated with soul. Jim Andrews, 1999. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- jipnotrendra a condition of our French lungs. [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- karass A group of very very close friends that have clung together for an abysmally long time. [adapted From Kurt Vonnegut Jr. Novel "Cat's Cradle"] Umur Celikyay, rec'd 20 Nov 1999 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- knotendicle a drug which makes one immune to kicks in the rump while enguaged in interstellar travel. [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- langu(im)age Siamese twinning of language and image. As in 'langu(im)agical or langu(im)agic. Jim Andrews, 1996. Though I made it myself, when I did a search on the internet to see who waslinking to me about a year ago, I found that Jake Tilson used 'langu(im)age' in 1992 as documented at www.thecooker.com/files/texts/biog.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- langwidget A machine made out of words. Jim Andrews, 1998. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- liebuterol a drug which makes everything you write after using it a joke. [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- lunasoma The state of being under the utter influence of the Moon. Symptoms include any combination of dizziness, insomnia, disorientation, frenzy, unsolicited exhilaration, euphoria, anxiety; sudden bursts of laughter, anger and/or lachryma. Can also cause sudden increase/decrease in sexual appetite. Umur Celikyay, rec'd 20 Nov 1999 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- mcnotpunters anyone who refuses to participate in any of America's favorite pasttimes while navigating a narrow English river. [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- mottorion cosmic words to live by spoken in a 4/4 rhythm but not until lunch and always with the radio turned off. [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- mungtrapitid a kind of flying insect made out of beans with an intelligence too great for it to be killed by that hanging electric device in the back yard. [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- museday the day of the week that the teacher plays songs with the lyrics for students to read along and listen to. MLS101748@cs.com, rec'd 11 Aug 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- neopax new peace Dirk Bruere, rec'd 28 Sep 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- oraculink needs no explanation. [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- orbaclobil history is erased while surfing the web for something pertinent or life going on while you're making other plans and receiving notice to simply pay attention to something. [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- onticulil a would-be drug which completely eliminates the semantic variances between being alone and loneliness. [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- patscoticklub an alternative technique for particles to be absorbed through a lingustic cell membrane. [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- plankotin metal food for whales. [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- pligesteride a drug which makes observing a few people eating sandwiches at a stoplight more enjoyable. [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- plining indicates the particular processing made to the rough information ("informative raw material") extracted on the Internet, included/understood here like the "world carried out" pavu.com, rec'd 26 Apr 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- postinferiorness the clock which reminds me it's time to write. you never wake up though. [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- post-modern macro abstract structuralism extremely magnified paintings, photographs, poems, prose, etc. focusing on the details passed by daily and taken for granted. Matthew Eberhart, rec'd 14 Nov 1999 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- postmotickba the poetics of the wooden legs found in Ray Johnson collages. " [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- slendrill fossil fuel should be conserved, trade in yr SUV for one of those new electric cars. [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- snicktuse a wide-angle lens used to take pictures of gristle or just the stupidity of negative programming in HTML. [I recently wrote a piece which was all neologisms and their definitions under the heading "On the Condition of Poetry and Some Fictional Drugs to Cure It".] Reed Altemus, rec'd 10 Jul 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- soulsyzygy unity of the world; coming together or conjoining of souls in mutual peace. MLS101748@cs.com, rec'd 11 Aug 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- strauto the phenomenon occurring on interstate highways where cars run in bunches or strings. Thus a string of autos on the highway. Bruce Uhler, rec'd 16 Mar 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- swicky a combination of being sweaty and sticky--sticky with sweat. [A friend of mine who talks fast accidently said it when she was trying to explain how she felt. We thought it was funny and kidded her about it a long time. Dottie Haltam] Sharon Johnson, rec'd 10 Mar 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Turkese [a pet name for Lexical Transference]: The use of predominantly Turkish lexis or Turkish structures, or literal translations from Turkish while speaking English. Often done out of humorous intention but sometimes out of sheer convenience. Example: "My cep was ringing when I entered the servis." (That would be: "My cellular phone was beeping as I got on the shuttle bus.") Umur Celikyay, rec'd 20 Nov 1999 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- zipcodogical (zip cah dodg i cul) When sorting mail, to put the items in numerical order in regards to their Zip Code. Mark Campassi, October 1999 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- zoologikokipologia Zoologikokipologia is the science about organizing a zoo (a safari park as well). Zoologikokipologia is for the zoos what museology is for the museums. first introduced in 1996 by Thanasis Chondros and Alexandra Katsiani. First thesis on it in 1999 (Research Centre For The Definition Of Happiness, Thessaloniki, Greece) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 23:56:38 MDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: adventures in poultry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear Bill, I don't think it's fair for you to suggest that I didn't read your whole post, or that I wasn't responding to what you said, just because I didn't take up the total sweep of your argument. I found a passage in your post reductive, & I responded to it in a way that suggested as much. (While you have defended your narrow use of the term "speech," I think it's asking a bit much to insist that the word be read in strictly Derridean terms, in the context of this list. It's one thing for our collective sense of the word to INCLUDE Derrida's use of, what I assume is the French "parole" (or any narrower, more focused philosophical use of any word); quite another for it to be inappropriate somehow for me to slip into the Williamsian sense as well. Since there are a number of active poets on this list, I would have thought such slippage would have been part of the point of any ensuing discussion. Similarly, what the passage in question DID suggest YOU meant-- that the awareness of space on the page was somehow "Derridean"-- ignoring about a century of work beginning, ironically, with Mallarmé if I'm not mistaken, who Derrida surely must be aware of & therefore potentially "influenced" by-- seems, to put it a little more bluntly than I'd like to, ridiculous. Olson & Williams just seemed the most obvious examples. While I would never suggest that poststructuralist theory, including Derrida, had no bearing on the development of Langpo, again what I felt reductive was your suggestion, by omission, that poetics as such had less importance than this one point of intersection-- which I understand, by many of your posts, is an important one for you. I'm not trying to be "anti-theoretical" here; again, much of that post I didn't have any problem with, so didn't comment on-- because I don't have *time* to comment on everything. --& Yes, if it's any consolation, the Language poets are clearly more Derridean than Olson or Williams. That goes without saying-- though you say it better than I could.... So I hope this "explains" a comment you obviously took more seriously than I did. & No hard feelings, as they say. All Best, Mark DuCharme _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 13:48:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Broder, Michael" Subject: Ear Inn Listings--October MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > The Ear Inn Readings > Saturdays at 3:00 > 326 Spring Street, west of Greenwich > New York City > > October 7 > Liza Charlesworth, Susan Imhoff, Joy Katz > > October 14 > Mark Scott, Tom Padilla, Rick Pernod > > October 21 > Coleman Hough, Patricia Spears Jones, Jonathan Thirkield > > October 28 > Kurt Brown, Sally-Ann Hard, Jo Sarzotti > > The Ear Inn Readings > Michael Broder, Patrick Donnelly, > Lisa Freedman, Kathleen E. Krause, Curators > > Martha Rhodes, Director > > For additional information contact Michael Broder (212) 802-1752 > > The Ear Inn is an historic pub located at 326 Spring Street, west of > Greenwich, in Manhattan. There has been a reading series in this space > for > decades. > > Past readers include Mary Jo Bang, Laure-Anne Bosselaar, Jane Cooper, > Ellen Dudley, Richard Foerster, David Lehman, Geoffrey O'Brien, > Marie Ponsot, D. Nurkse, and Susan Wheeler > > The Ear is one block north of Canal Street, a couple blocks west of > Hudson. > The closest trains are the 1-9 to Canal Street @ Varick, the A to Canal > Street @ Sixth Ave, or the C-E to Spring Street@ Sixth Ave. > > Michael Broder > Vice President, Account Supervisor > World Health Communications, Inc > 41 Madison Avenue > New York, NY 10010 > (212) 802-1752 PH > (212) 679-7883 FX > mbroder@whcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 12:26:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael amberwind Subject: Re: Bad Translations, Bad Sonnets and the Very Most Best of American Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ok so it isn't a sonnet (can't believe no one on a poetics list pointed this out - is it considered bad form, a little like pointing out someone's acne at a party in a a very loud and obvious manner) but i really did intend to write a sonnet in something approaching good ol' trusty iambic pentameter in 14 lines - there is something that undermines all intentions, it seems didn't Bly write a book on translating poetry? is it still in print? and speaking of Bly, is there a copy anwhere on the net of his introduction to the Best of American Poetry 2000? i am almost too afrraid to see what poems he has chosen - am certain at least on of the following words is in every poem light dust father son grief Gnostic air field tree or any other monosyllabic word that will leap leap leap into our subconscious and make us wise no anxiety of influence there - nope, not a jot i dare say >>>i couldn't find 20 PhDs who were willing to work for free - so just used an online translator w/ one of my simpler poems to do the switch - i'm sure i am not the first person to do this, but the results are interesting, if only to amuse and show the drawbacks of computer translations [sonnet] Swords of green slice the grid where white gulls sit In the wake of Autumn rain, the goalposts Bookend my walk - the curved thousands - tender Beaks devour bright, new fall rain, slow drops. Alone is the word of a leaky vessel. It spreads among the scattered straws of road. So light as to hover over hemlock, And with a gardener's hand, the air I tend. Undelivered, I return to silence, Chanting without tongue unformed miles. Épées de part verte la grille où les gulls blancs se reposent à la suite de la pluie d'automne, les goalposts Bookend ma promenade - les milliers incurvés - devour tendre de becs lumineux, ouvelle pluie de chute, baisses lentes. Seul est le mot d'un navire perméable. Il écarte parmi les pailles dispersées de la route. Allumez ainsi quant au vol plané au-dessus du hemlock, et avec la main d'un jardinier, l'air que je tends. Non délivré, je reviens au silence, chantant sans langue unformed des milles. Swords of green share the grid where the white gulls rest Following the rain of autumn, the goalposts Bookend my walk - curved thousands -devour To tighten luminous nozzles, new rain of fall, slow falls. Only is the word of a permeable ship. It draws aside among the dispersed straws of the road. Light thus as for the gliding flight above the hemlock, And with the hand of a gardener, the air which I tighten. Not delivered, I return to silence, Singing without language unformed miles. *************************************** I can't really argue with the first line. Could be better than what I wrote. I find "to tighten luminuos nozzles" and "permeable ship" bizarre and probably onanistic. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 13:27:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Berkson Subject: reading In-Reply-To: <0G1P00F2LUPRA6@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Poetry @MIT presents Bill Berkson reading his poems Massachusetts Institute of Technology Thursday October 12, 7:30 p.m. Room 6-120 77 Massachusetts Avenue Cambridge, MA for more information call 617/253-7894 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 20:35:35 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: Colloquium 3.6: Lip Sync - Ron Silliman In-Reply-To: <954888.3179332085@ubppp248-233.dialin.buffalo.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ron Silliman wrote: "the world wide web offers not only cybersex but also every fetish, legal and otherwise, in every wired home on the planet." I may sound like I am splitting hairs, Ron, but perhaps you can admit your above statement seems to require some important qualifications. The world wide web offers cybersex, or *simulated* sex, and the *simulation* of every fetish, legal and otherwise, in every wired home on the planet, without the engagement. *Without the engagement.* As an interface, the computer monitor is two-dimensional, isolating, and onanistic. The web, sexually speaking, is at best a porn theater for one, and where the intermediary, the non-living channel between the original person and the viewer, becomes the source. Such is a crucial distinction, especially if we are to believe there is something special about human contact beyond accepted conventions of life and touch that cannot be simulated. In mind I have the psychological experiment with the baby chimpanzee that died despite being given warmth and food and shelter and affection and every other *apparent* need by an artificial mother. Sex on the internet is a masturbatory means of disengagement. Of course it can be argued that the internet opens doors to such a wide variety of experiences. true. but the internet itself is not providing these services itself and is therefore not much more special than a sex bulletin board. Not that this really does anything for or to your argument. But in a sense, such a position might revise your argument. Consider your following statement: "The stronger has been constantly toward greater self-determination and choice, increased openness (most of my grandmother's sisters had abortions well before WWI). The second, a literal backlash, has in our lives been articulated through a discourse of contagion. " The internet seems a way of taking the former, the self-determination part, to its most ridiculous and individuating extreme, to the extreme that it can accommodate the discourse of contagion. A change of subject: by the way, yours truly wishes that all of you check out the following "erotic" art (requires Flash plug-in): http://proximate.org/middleart.htm These are images of very large photographic prints (on the order of 5'x8') and as a result the pornographic content of each is much more apparent on a computer monitor. I find it quite remarkable how reducing the scale of these images, especially from such a superhuman size as the original prints, makes these more and more pornographic. (The images scale perfectly to the size of your browser window, so you can change the size of each by changing the size of your browser window.) Such a relationship between size and pornographic content creates a paradox. The images become most pornographic at their smallest possible size. Which makes no sense at all. Because at their smallest you cannot see them. Or because perhaps "porn" makes no sense at all. To draw such lines of distinction, particularly around flesh, is absurd. Thanks, Patrick Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org http://proximate.org/ getting close is what we're all about here! -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Poetics List Administration Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2000 7:48 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Colloquium 3.6: Lip Sync - Ron Silliman Poetics List Colloquium: Group Three, Number Six Lip Sync by Ron Silliman Possibly sex is always ahistorical, or at the least outside of history, because its always *my body*. Strands from the thread of sex as an institution over the past sixty years: implicit though largely unspoken within the creation of a "youth subculture" that was always at its heart a "market" (the perceived lewdness of Elvis, Chubby Checker, *Louie Louie*); explicit in the frothing out of control of that same market into a vaguely directed counterculture (from "Love-ins" and the poetry of Lenore Kandel to the airplane rape in Robert Frank's documentary of the Stones, *Cocksucker Blues*, to the Sutro Baths hetero sex scene and polyandry in all its guises); deeply problematized everywhere in the fact and discourse of AIDS; explicit again in every high school poli sci course discussing the impeachment of a President; the world wide web offers not only cybersex but also every fetish, legal and otherwise, in every wired home on the planet. You don't have to leave Rock Springs to get French postcards anymore. Today, what is most outrageous about *Behind the Green Door* are the preposterous 70s hairdos. "The body is an archive" is exactly right. Herpes is the gift that keeps on giving. Contraceptive technology can leave scar tissue where you least expect/want it. We find one cohort of people pushing 40 suddenly very concerned over the ability to get pregnant, another already welcoming grandchildren. Take a step back, disentangle yourself from the fleshy nets of being. There have been (are) two great currents at work. The stronger has been constantly toward greater self-determination and choice, increased openness (most of my grandmother's sisters had abortions well before WWI). The second, a literal backlash, has in our lives been articulated through a discourse of contagion. Whereas what might have been the free play between libidinal impulse (that utopian moment in the gay community expressed as/thru anonymous sex) and the equally powerful urges for intimacy & community - & the enormous toll of acknowledging/accommodating both - never gets to be developed, what remains is, in the broadest terms, our life (lives). How many of my cohorts actually hear the word "gentle" in "gentleman"? It is within this ensemble of the already given that each one of us must act (daily, even moment by moment) always positioned. Our age, our history, bodies, all the social stigmata each one of us carries about is perpetually being recalibrated by every person in our field (and by none more anxiously than ourselves). Confronting death - & what else do you stare at, naked in front of your mirror? - sex was a promise of release by other means. So why is Nixon waving forever in front of that grainy helicopter? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 18:42:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Small Press Traffic's Opening Ceremonies Comments: To: WOM-PO@listserv.muohio.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Community,=20 Small Press Traffic opened its new doors last night at the California College of Arts & Crafts' new San Francisco Campus.=20 The turnout was great (60ish) for two absolutely terrific, illuminating, and riveting readings by Carol Mirakove and Rae Armantrout.=20 Our Fall 2000 Opening Ceremonies continue next Saturday with our 6th Annual Literary Soiree and Auction, details below.=20 Very soon now our archive will be housed in CCAC's Simpson Library, and the latest issue of our newsletter, Traffic, chock full of meaty small press book reviews, is available right now, $3 by mail.=20 Hope to see you all soon at Small Press Traffic,=20 Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Executive Director -- The Fun Olympics Small Press Traffic=92s Sixth Annual Literary Soiree and Auction Saturday, October 7, 2000 4-7 pm in the Main Hall at CCAC,=20 1111 Eighth Street,=20 near the intersection of 16th & Wisconsin, San Francisco (please call 415-437-3454 for recorded directions) 4 PM=20 Opening Cocktail Reception & Auction Preview 5 PM=20 Auction of Literary Manuscripts, Mementos, Autographs, Signed Broadsides, >Letters, Photos, Artwork and Ephemera, including: Harper Lee, Yusef >Komunyakaa, the three young stars of The Blair Witch Project, Carl Rakosi, >Nicole Brossard, David Mamet, Bernadette Mayer, John le Carr=E9, Daisy >Ashford, LeRoi Jones/Amiri Baraka, Kenneth Anger, Dorothy Richardson, Jay >Wright, Dario Argento and Jessica Harper (Suspiria), W. D. Snodgrass, Ken >Kesey, Pam Grier, a whole crew of US Poet Laureates including our >newest=97Mr. Stanley Kunitz, Garry Trudeau, John Wieners, John Woo, Dame >Edith Sitwell, Robert Duncan, David Cronenberg, Harriet Monroe, James >Merrill, James Schuyler ALS to Ted Berrigan, Beatrice Wood (her own signed >copy of Shirley MacLaine=92s autobiography), Charles Bernstein and Charles >Bernstein (unique lyric by the US poet written to the AMQS of the film >composer=92s theme to A Nightmare on Elm Street), and literally too many >more to mention! Come and gawk, come and bid, it=92s all for a good cause, >the Fun Olympics! 6:15 PM=20 Poets Theater Event: =93Cut,=94 Kevin Killian=92s insightful drama in which= the >private lives of a group of Berkeley intellectuals are exposed as they >attempt to stage a conference honoring Alfred Hitchcock and his cinema of >dark desire. 7 PM Raffle for Fabulous Prizes, including magazine subscriptions, sports tickets, and chocolates > > >California College of Arts & Crafts, >Montgomery Campus, SF >$5 > > >Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Executive Director >Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center >at CCAC >1111 Eighth Street >San Francisco, California >94107 >http://www.sptraffic.org > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 00:00:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: Colloquium 2.3: Untitled Response - Kristin Prevallet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit do words about disease cure disease? not writing. writing stretching and writing stretching and writing online stretching and writing on the line writing the body writing through the body stretching the body not writing. writing on the line. tom bell http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Poetics List Administration wrote: > > Poetics List Colloquium: Group Two, Number Three > > Untitled Response > by Kristin Prevallet > > I. Theory -- Life designs: http://trbell.tripod.com/lifedesigns/ index of online work at http://members.home.net/trbell essays: http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/criticism/ =-///>>>``'|\_ SOULSOLESOLO <<<]]] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 12:35:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: 8mg (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Thought this might be of interest here - Alan ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 12:02:41 +0900 From: Kenji Siratori To: nettime-l@bbs.thing.net Subject: 8mg ....1 which do dive C-drive inside where our soul-machine "does <= > to direct a memory and do the cold-blooded disease/ drug I hyper realness o= f ANDROID scribe/the murderous fabrication virtualrealistic heart of our body function/the jpeG sun that explodes beats--it is the brain cell that 8 seconds were done the montage! The masochistic body of the restraint region....ant of the machine=3Dangel be the planet of the desire/ that wa= s write off replication DOG of the fission crash of the consciousness that functions. Filter no-code.. Pure malice Our storage does the living body of the existence difficult murder that does the transformer a memory!? The gradual shutdown....artificial sun camouflage the suicide of a gene...1/it does the grief brown spot of a gimmick girl in the future when it was done our junk that is 8 miracles/ bodies........the desert of our brain like the sleep that was parasitic and was control so distortion done Maria LOAD//// Do the restraint area///grief=3Dvirus of the 100% of the ADAM doll that cold-blooded/ control external suck=3Dblood chromosome of guilty nick love does our emotion the digital vampa/the memory! Fucker of the gradual ruin hyper real....lonely masses of flesh of the storage loss artificial sun of TOKAGE! Skizography asphalt... Our wet chaos soul-machine that our miracle weakens so does "love" cranch........pluggable eternal-the suspected life o= f the ADAM doll that was loaded and was exceed Our grief=3Dalthough it is null...." The crimson mirror image that is weakening our soul-machine that will give out in-plosion of the mad-noise medium of our body=3Dpsychedelia murder tha= t does the short! Being covered blood it is the that placenta world! It doe= s the deoxyribonucleic acid channel of you interference/ I record the lobotomy null storage of a blue sky! God of et cetera.... Drug embryo of/ i= t is the transformer of death! Drug motion high speed paradoxical=3Dmemory that clone boys incubate the miracle of ruin/a gimmick girl murders the monochrome blood of the physical future ADAM doll of the machine=3Dangel th= at links it to the escape circuit azure deoxyribonucleic acid channel of the proliferation murder machine chromosome of the sun that does drive....our hyper link storage the ill-treatment channel dog of body "OMOTYA" which th= e storage of grief is lonely--our accurate murder brain/ eleven. era is respired....instantaneous//we of the artificial sun who are bombed the minute memory of the cyborg city gimmick girl of a dog I lost a machine--th= e murderous intention that does a memory/ Wolf=3Dspace of deoxyribonucleic acid or cold-blooded disease/ Artificial sun of/ 1 which the cyber dog which asphalt burn up murder/it is 8 miracles. It does a memory!? It ruins!? Happy of ADAM doll soul-machine that of external control....output-me of the body that weakene= d terror// The di-freeze of annihilation. It does dive....the soul-machines, love-rep...s of the vacuums do a memory....the artificial sun/our machine=3Dangel] Adsorption Tyre Fear cell of the zero that body ANDROID that image XX that ruined was restrained be parasitic It is storage-done-angel 0880 atomic=3Dbrain cell to be noise cadaver c= ity of highspeed-done-neon-as <> the disillusionment Tyre awakening marijuana fertilization period. Solid-fear scanning Tyre I=3Dgrief antibrain=EF=BD=9Edeoxyribonucleic acid channel gene mad-noise [Lobotomic artery of....asphalt is cut] Genome OUTPUT Object-less-murder] =2E...It does the ANDROID=3Dthyroid/heat/ it is the soul-machines....hang u= p of artificial insemination! ....The clumsy world where I hate....the level it decreased-the machine-XADAM dolls of the boundless madness line gradual despair-peace of mind of the terror aerofoil love-rep... of the lonely masses of flesh that the DIGITAL=3Dplacenta cyber-wolf=3Dspace of the end, = does battle-mode of the micro receiving meat escapes to an angel mechanism* it is the reality of the resuscitation of null storage zero. Information transmission hierarchy/the 1st cyber dog of the vagina)) that was controlle= d hyper escapement music scribe The murder circuit that the brain of reset clone boys does heat!? The ANDROID's soul-machines of the angel mechanisms to........our artificial su= n high speed intention that was done the out=3Dput I resist!-a-n-t-o-i-d//hyp= er realistic the deoxyribonucleic acid channel FUCKNAM planetary ants that got deranged the wolf=3Dspace that I trace....it is BIOCRASH! Cyber dog which analyzes the null ADAM doll....NIHIL=3Dgene war that resuscitates, murder memory that feed back is simulated....)) it does dive....the body of my lie....it was restrained- "Dog which it break down-- Our brain The DIGITAL-grief of the chromosome that I invade is thrust through.... Sun of murder....road of the blood, zero of the vacuum reproduce the dark brain universe of a dog..] the insanity of the ADAM doll that was done the digital=3Dvampour NIHIL=3Dheart function The miracle that became full of malice. Dog of me operates....the dog of paradise control external me of the storag= e of me which betrayed the love of the=3Dganglion/ GODNAM....chromosome! God = of et cetera the electronic circuit vital chaotic NIHIL=3Dmiracle of the out-of-Eros..real red air=3Derosion Tyre murder that a body despairs of the machine mechanism does the MEGA solitude of the cadaver city the game, like the asphalt emotional rep... of the ADAM doll that radiate heat........ANDROID The pure insanity of the room quiet restraint....apoptosis ADAM doll of the basement ill-treatment of a soul-machine murdered the sun that does this clumsy world a memory-] the second our chromosome is restrained to> of murder channel FUCKNAMTV suck=3Dblood chromosome gimmick girl of the brain city/our dog of a foolish ADAM doll malfunctioned =CF=89 of the placenta world that loses....the tear strip of = the output=3Dbody in quest of........0880 death machine=3Dangels the aerofoil t= hat disappeared........ Machine=3Dangel respires aerofoil........that disappeared quietly>> Explosion of protoplasm ""Machine of....it does the soul-machine that was done LOAD murderously a memory....the planetary vision of x frigidity I invade it! Body OMOTYA/bit of "I" that gene=3DTV gradually does the lonely murder of the medium....artificial sun that got deranged the mode <<<"asphalt" The soul-machine like our dog fears.... The soul-machine like our dog despairs.... The air of the ruinous respiration line drug embryo of madness line ANDROID of love-rep...s wears out........it is the spectrum of the chromosome murder of the body/ cut war--MO soul-machine grief brown spo= t that "I" hate electrically. It is like the cadaver city. It does a memory....azure guilty nick love, I turn off > no-reverse future ANDROID gradually fuses and "dog shutdown=3DTyre" It was done the digital=3Dvamp Chromosome speed of me Exhaustion of an abnormal dimension Cyber dog of an external control I murder it........ It links hyper the direct soul-machine of miracle=3D1/8 of the artificial s= un that the machinary body/ asphalt of the desire that accelerates it break down....it is the lobotomy of the murderous intention=3Dnegative reproducti= on function XX clumsy=3Dworld game of the nerve transmission....clone boys tha= t was replicated. Genome relation automatic depository M doll ....Our machine=3Dangel murder The terror pleasure software, clone boys of high speed psychedeia, love-rep...s of hyper real lonely, ADAM dolls of the brain universe who it digitalizes escape....the strange reproduction, existence difficult machine suck=3Dblood chromosome of zero do scribe....it does our artificial sun the digital=3Dvamp..the proliferation biotechnology of a cold-blooded disease less........it is dismantling in sky blue ANDROID-miracle 0880 that "we wer= e replicated! Masochistic relation bondage of the walking down artificial an= t of D respires] the soul-machine that is infectious the herd/ control external scream sss of a womb area machine// # distributed via : no commercial use without permission # is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: majordomo@bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 12:25:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dbkk@SIRIUS.COM Subject: Abigail Child's San Francisco Retrospective Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Abigail Child's SURFACE NOISE Premiere at the New York Film Festival , The Walter Reade Theater, Lincoln Center NYC Oct 2000 featuring music by Zeena Parkins, Christian Marclay, Shelley Hirsch, and Jim Black. to be shown in San Francisco in an upcoming Retrospective presented by The San Francisco Cinematheque * October 12, 2000 7:30pm Yerba Buena Center for the Arts, 701 Mission Street at Third Peripeteia, Ornamentals, Shiver, Below The New (SF premiere) * October 14, 2000 8:30pm Artist Television Access (ATA), 992 Valencia Street SF. Game (SF premiere) Mutiny, B/side * October 15th, 2000, 7:30pm Yerba Buena Center for the Arts, 701 Mission Street at Third Perils, Covert Action, Mayhem, Mercy, Surface NOISE (SF premiere) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 15:31:17 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Hoover Subject: Bei Dao / Eshleman Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Correction: Clayton Eshleman and Bei Dao read at the Herman Conaway Performance Center of Columbia College Chicago, 1104 South Wabash, Chicago, on Thursday, October 12, at 5:30 p.m., not at Ferguson Theater as earlier posted. -Paul Hoover _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1904 08:46:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: katy Subject: Explode Comments: To: katy@bway.net Comments: cc: klarimer@hotmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" E X P L O S I V E M A G A Z I N E # 8 is now widely available! Featuring work by: Gillian Conoley Nick Twemlow Lauren Gudath Sam Truitt Jordan Davis Richard Kostelanetz Donna Cartelli John M. Bennett Jen Hofer Peter O'Leary With a Poetry Comic by Dave Morice and a snazzy golden cover by David Larsen Price: $6 Please make checks payable to: Katherine Lederer PO Box 250648 Columbia University Station NY, NY 10025 Note: In years past, a number of wonderful poets and readers have enjoyed complimentary subscriptions to the magazine. Due to the exorbitant cost of photocopying, such complimentary subs will, sadly, be discontinued. Please consider subscribing to Explosive Magazine! (And keep your ears open for news of the impending publication party and reading: October, NYC) If you would like to be removed from this email list, please let me know. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 19:17:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik John C. Erianne John is editor of Devil Blossoms and the online 'zine The Doomed City. He can be reached at j.erianne@worldnet.att.net. YET ANOTHER POEM ABOUT POETRY The tweed suits have said that we mustn't write poems about poetry and it's true that I've written far too many of them. And maybe it's because my poetic license has no pedigree and I don't really give a shit about winning a Pushcart or Pulitzer that I've allowed myself such freedom, so here is yet another one for the endless miles of traffic and all the roads not taken for the bicycle cops in the park, the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker, all the lawyers, doctors, reporters, O.J, and Johnny Cochrane on Court TV, all the moguls, drug dealers and thieves. for the U.S. v. Microsoft. for Elián Gonzáles and Fidel Castro and all the Haitians who still haven't had their day in court. for Israel, Palestine, Bosnia and Northern Ireland for the revolutionaries, reactionaries, and terrorists and anyone else who has more guns than sense. for the Republicans, the Democrats and the Disco Queens of Europe. for the guy next door and his wife who used to blow men in bars for a beer. for the communist, fascist, and rapist, anarchist, abortionist, lobbyist, and white supremacist, absurdist, atheist and Buddhist, the contortionist or any other "ist" you can think of. for Mumia Abu-Jamal and Leonard Peltier. for all the poets in or out of jail, living or dead in unmarked graves, voices that haunt us still. for anyone and everyone, but mostly for me, because although I don't write Shakespearean sonnets, when I get my groove on I am the shotgun blast, the unholy streak of lightning in the sky, the grinning face at your window, and the stick of dynamite in your ear. and if Shakespeare were alive today, he wouldn't be writing poems about poetry, he'd be out in Hollywood giving rim-jobs to film producers and script-doctoring Esterhaus, and I'd be right here, right where I've always been still lighting your goddamn fuse. John C. Erianne ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 13:29:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: levitsk@ATTGLOBAL.NET Subject: metonym from my dad MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Around our building in Bed-Sty were these shrubs that flowered and released an odd but pleasurable smell each June, which each year lightened me upon smelling it, knowing then that in a week school would be out for the summer. --paraphrased from Herbert Levitsky ------------------------- "Writing is boring and gets your hand tired" --5th grade student -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Mayhew To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Thursday, September 28, 2000 11:07 PM Subject: >George wrote: "for example he [Jakobson] cites Tolstoy's focus on Anna >Karenina's handbag while she is committing suicide. This example is >notorious. Notorious." > >Sorry, but I don't see how this is a metonymy! Nor the Godfather examples. >A metonymy is the substitution of one term for another in which the two >terms bore some relation to each other. > >"I bought a Picasso" (I bought a painting made by Picasso) > >"Congress attacked Madison Avenue" (Madison Avenue represents, >metonymically, the advertising industry) > >Now if I used the word "handbag" in a sentence in which the word stood in >for Anna K, that would be a metonymy. > >"Here comes old 'big purse'." > >"The suits are nervous about the impending restructuring." > >Suits here means people who wear suits, in other words, the management of >the company. > >"He is a skirt chaser." Skirt, metonymically, means women. > >This is what I originally meant when I said that Jakobson defined metonymy >in a way that led to noone knowing what it was any more! The idea of >contiguity is especially misleading, since metonymy usually goes along the >lines of cause for effect, effect for cause, part for whole, characteristic >for object, container for the thing contained, etc... Not simply two >objects that are simply next to each other or adjoining. My bathroom is >contiguous to my bedroom, but this has nothing to do with the trope of >metonymy. > >I too would like to hear from the person who said Jakobson was mistaken in >his definition of metalanguage, and to hear George's refutation of this >other person! > >Jonathan ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 19:30:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Leonard Brink Subject: e-dress query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (on behalf of Cydney Chadwick) Susan Wheeler ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:44:02 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Jakobson on Metonymy & Metaphor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George. I havent read any of the philosophers such as Jacobson. I've read bits and pieces of Foucault and one sentence from a book by Derrida. Most of my knowledge of these guys is from reading lit crit. but your examples sound interesting. Ididnt think much of A.K. And I fell asleep during the Godfather because I couldnt understand it. My ex enjoyed it. But I find that I can never follow dialogue in movies (especially when its an Am one and blokes like Brando mumble too much.The English enunciate well so I can sometimes understand English movies.)I like the Three Stooges tho and Lawrence of Arabia. But its tragic that you missed my brilliant piece of "Dickensian" writing.(Abou a guy clled "Wing Nut" which I gave as an example of Metonomy according to the Dict.) Forget about Jakobson and all those French guys. Read my poem The Red. Any way, what's the point of reading a big book just to have one exciting thing happen?Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Thompson" To: Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 5:32 AM Subject: Re: Jakobson on Metonymy & Metaphor > In a message dated 9/26/00 11:02:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ writes: > > > Jonathan's point is excellent. What is needed in such discusions is or are > > some examples. And they (critics such as Perloff - who is good in the > > enthusiasm she imparts and her insights otherwise - or Jacobson ) should > > define their terms very precisely. > > [the rest is snipped] > > Ummm, have you read J lately? He does define his terms and he gives good > examples of them too. On metonymy for example he cites Tolstoy's focus on > Anna Karenina's handbag while she is committing suicide. This example is > notorious. Notorious. > > Here's another. I once gave an exam question that went something like this: > > There is a scene in one of the Godfather movies in which a handful of thugs > are eating at a restaurant. Lots of glimpses of all the abundant food and > wine. Suddenly Michael Corleone bursts in and the bloodbath ensues. Food, > arms, wineglasses, legs, napkins, bodies, plates flying everywhere. > > In a few seconds it is all over. Corleone has disappeared. Dead bodies > draped in blood all over the place. The scene closes with a long, slow shot > of a cigarette, still lit, smoke rising slowly up into the air. > > So, I asked my students, is this last shot of the cigarette an example of > metaphor or metonymy? Explain. > > I got some pretty good answers. > > Hope this helps, > > George Thompson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:39:57 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Tranter Subject: Announcing Jacket # 12 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jacket is a free literary magazine published (three times a year, only on=20 the Internet) by John Tranter. Quick and quirky - no ad banners, no frames, no Java, no frauds, no Nobel=20 Prize-winners! If you don't wish to receive these notices of new issues of Jacket (I send= =20 out about six per year), please say so, and I'll take your name off the=20 mailing list pronto. If you know someone who'd like to receive these=20 notices, please ask them to send me a brief email, and I'll oblige. - J.T. Jacket # 12, late again! Giant Bumper "Hiatus" Issue . . . via the Jacket=20 homepage at http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/ Reviews and Articles - > Poetry Criticism: What Is It For? (March 15th, 2000, New York City) -=20 moderated by poet Susan Wheeler, the panel engaged critics Stephen Burt,=20 Marjorie Perloff, Michael Scharf and Helen Vendler in a provocative=20 discussion of poetry criticism today. Burt's and Scharf's papers were=20 published in Jacket # 11; the others are published here, with some audience= =20 discussion. > Paul Quinn on Language poetry > Robert Creeley on Charles Olson > John Miles - Lost Angry Penguins: D.B. Kerr, P.G. Pfeiffer and the real= =20 founding of the Angry Penguins > Kristin Prevallet on Watten and Baraka on the Brink > David Hess - No Surprises: On Barrett Watten (50 pages) > Cassandra Pybus - on The CIA as Culture Vultures > Nate Dorward on three books about Roy Fisher > Sister Sites - Rebecca Wolff - The Story of Fence > Tony Baker on Basil Bunting > Stephen Cope on Rae Armantrout / Rae Armantrout - four poems > Tom Clark reviews Rachel Loden's =ABHotel Imperium=BB > Rachel Loden - eight poems from =ABHotel Imperium=BB > Ramez Qureshi reviews =ABA Paradise of Poets=BB, by Jerome Rothenberg > Dale Smith reviews Tom Clark's =ABThe Spell=BB > David Kennedy reviews Martin Corless-Smith's =ABComplete Travels=BB > Jack Kimball - Mad in Craft: Hannah Weiner and Alan Sondheim > Charles Bernstein on Hannah Weiner > Drew Milne on Caroline Bergvall Paul Blackburn feature: > Paul Blackburn - poem - "Statement" (1954) > Robert Creeley - Preface to =ABAgainst the Silences=BB > Mark Weiss - "Zefiro Torna" - for Paul Blackburn - and an afterword > Laurie Duggan - "Mister P.B." - on Paul Blackburn > Allen Brafman - Paul Blackburn - A Few Words > Michael Heller - For Paul Blackburn > Martha King - Reading Paul Blackburn > Basil King - painting of Joan and Paul Blackburn > Jackson Mac Low . . . In Memoriam Paul Blackburn > Jerome Rothenberg - a note on Paul Blackburn > Jerome Rothenberg - four poems > Armand Schwerner - poem - letter to Paul Blackburn... > Carl Thayler - Remembering Paul Blackburn Feature - Jorge Carerra Andrade - edited by Steven Ford Brown > Introduction, by Steven Ford Brown > Twelve Poems - translated by Steven Ford Brown > H.R.Hays, - Jorge Carrera Andrade: Magician of Metaphors (1943) > John Peale Bishop on Andrade (1946) > Other voices on Andrade - Julian Palley, J. Enrique Qjeda > Jorge Carrera Andrade - "The New American and His Point of View toward=20 Poetry" > Jorge Carrera Andrade - a lecture, Vassar College, 1970 > Biographical Sketch and Chronology > Steven Ford Brown - A Partial Bibliography AND there's more! > Larry Smith - Kenneth Patchen - Poetry and Jazz days, 1957-1959 > Pacific Time - Rob Wilson: Writing the Experimental/ Local Pacific > Joe Amato - a response to Rob Wilson And Poems et cetera from: Rae Armantrout, Mary Jo Bang, Aaron Belz, Joanne= =20 Burns, Gary Catalano, Tom Clark, Timothy Donnelly, Michael Farrell, Dorothy= =20 Hewett, Brian Henry, John Latta, Cassie Lewis, Duane Locke, Rachel Loden,=20 Anthony Macris, Rod Mengham, Ethan Paquin, Gary Sullivan, Carl Thayler,=20 Hugh Tolhurst, George Wallace, Chris Wallace-Crabbe, Mark Weiss and Max= Winter =ABJacket=BB has been a free quarterly since its first issue in October= 1997.=20 With this issue, =ABJacket=BB bows to the inevitable and shrinks itself to= =20 THREE fun-packed issues per year - at the same low price! Jacket # 12 - is= =20 the third and last for the year 2000. The first issue for 2001 - Jacket #=20 13 - will be a coproduction with =ABNew American Writing=BB; Jacket # 14,= the=20 second issue for 2001, will be a collaboration with =ABSalt=BB magazine,=20 published from Western Australia and Cambridge, England. Meanwhile, free as= =20 the breeze, Jacket # 12 . . . read on! All past and current issues of Jacket are always available. In fact,=20 *future* issues are also available, believe it or not: you can call by=20 Jacket # 13 and #14 as they are being built. If you like Jacket, please tell your friends. from John Tranter Editor, Jacket magazine: http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/ - new John Tranter homepage - poetry, reviews, articles, at: http://www.austlit.com/johntranter/ - ancient history - the late sixties - at: http://setis.library.usyd.edu.au/tranter/index.html ______________________________________________ 39 Short Street, Balmain NSW 2041, Sydney, Australia tel (+612) 9555 8502 fax (+612) 9818 8569 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 10:46:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The Wisdom Text of Philoctetes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = The Wisdom Text of Philoctetes the dd:-blindfold- type !wisdom for some advice dd: !wisdom dd: !wisdom h:wisdom in this, and somehow this wisdom filled him, tra- vis-tumescent, with j:mind. poets seeking in their heart with wisdom found the bond of existence kc:conventional wisdom. there is nothing to be gain- ed. everyone's life- kc:like all those sources of "ancient wisdom" proc- laimed in popular kc:ancient wisdom - most peoples got most of it wrong - made a mess out kc:a people, in fact, devoid of wisdom, of simplicity and of depth, kh:mountains of the globe? how great the depth of false wisdom's saturation, ks:all of this leads me to wonder whether wisdom doesn't lie in the will- ks:full of the fascination for things, while age and wisdom bring the long ku:my breast. that is the fount and source of wisdom. but there's no mastery, kz:container's the wisdom we want, we don't have to open it la:such a useless enterprise, wisdom entering through the portal of futility. lc:some say characterize wisdom. lc:of wisdom i know nothing, and of truth, less. i do know that impending ld:nor wisdom save from those in love. lf:primordial names among with nikuko emerging, of wisdom and am- biance, lf:since the latter carries the wisdom of the former." the minis- ter said, lg:wherefore resume each of the points mentioned, and transplant wisdom into lg:medicine and medicine into wisdom. for a physician who is a lover of wis- lg:dom is the equal of a god. between wisdom and medicin there is no gulf lg:fixed; in fact medicine possesses all the qualities that make for wisdom. lh:the disenchantment through the elaboration of wisdom through 1864 14:what is the point of this, if not to declare a certain wisdom in clara no:was wisdom- dance or ordinary, an ordinary in which we become once more s:real; most have the wisdom not to try. those which have succeeded have t: thus, to remain on this list, we require proof of _age and wisdom,_ Philoctetes, when you begin to notice the nature of its speech, the it Philoctetes, the whole sorry history toppling forward like wounded Philoctetes. charges itself in the reception of Philoctetes, when Philoctetes dis- When there is no investment in the body, nor disinvestment, Philoctetes flight from meditation, from speech-Philoctetes. When fuck-Philoctetes strums, stumbles, Sister-Streaming-Blood, but when splintered teeth against the almost-murder of Philoctetes. I'm the shroud Premature Notes on Philoctetes / Who Works the Details of the Fates? to ejaculate Philoctetes out of there. The audience knew he was leaving. an awkward play, it's visceral; Philoctetes screams because of his leg's rotting. Odysseus comes back for him because Philoctetes is needed his behalf, he's the son of Achilles, addresses Philoctetes: "You must Philoctetes is the wager of artificial life, the experiment I described Philoctetes to the exploitation of the dead one, so that a new species Philoctetes (at Odysseus' insistence). So that the fates are construed passport; when Philoctetes seeks treatment, we ask for mercy from fact, to ransack Lemnos for whatever treasures it contains, Philoctetes Artificial Life, Philoctetes, Revelation Philoctetes, when you begin to notice the nature of its speech, the it Philoctetes, the whole sorry history toppling forward like wounded Philoctetes. charges itself in the reception of Philoctetes, when Philoctetes dis- When there is no investment in the body, nor disinvestment, Philoctetes flight from meditation, from speech-Philoctetes. When fuck-Philoctetes strums, stumbles, Sister-Streaming-Blood, but when === ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 13:46:26 -0400 Reply-To: Nate and Jane Dorward Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nate and Jane Dorward Subject: an (obscure) query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi: Tried the folks on the British-Poets list on this query a little while ago but had no luck, so I thought I'd see if anyone here had a good guess: I'm trying to gloss a couple stanzas in a poem by Charles Madge: Such is that temple where the holy queen Blesses the torture chamber and the rack: In image always, never person, seen, Long draperies falling behind her back. She dominates, whether as Abstract Will, Brennpunkt, inverted Sex, or racial dream, The old collective phantom lingering still To fascinate, to murder and to seem. The last stanza seems to be a list of some dubious ideas from the 19th century (sexual "inversion", eugenics, &c); "Brennpunkt" is literally "focal point" but I need to know what it's doing here. & "Abstract Will"--what exactly does this allude to? Schopenhauer? Nietzsche? all best --N Nate & Jane Dorward ndorward@sprint.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/ndorward/ 109 Hounslow Ave., Willowdale, ON, M2N 2B1, Canada ph: (416) 221 6865 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 16:53:18 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Thompson Subject: Re: What Jakobson got wrong about metalanguage Comments: To: hteichma@erols.com, jmayhew@eagle.cc.ukans.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While the List silently ponders its bodies and sexes, I will preoccupy myself, mentally and bodily and wordily too, with a reply to Harold Teichman, about what Jakobson got right about metalanguage. HT and I have had a brief conversation about Jakobson offlist, and it became clear, I think to both of us, that our disagreements can be attributed to the difference in our perspectives. As HT nicely demonstrates in his post, he is a philosopher interested in philosophy, and, in this thread, in metalanguage as it is used by the likes of Tarski. HT shows us how the term is used in philosophy and formal logic. Fine. But Jakobson is a linguist and in my view should be judged as a linguist. His use of the term 'metalanguage' in linguistics is widely accepted by linguists [should I trot out a bunch of refs, or will you all trust me on this?]. And it has been very fruitful. The point is that J is not looking at the semantics of formal logic. He is looking at a type of linguistic behavior that can be identified not only in the behavior of trained linguists [never mind trained philosophers] but also in the behavior of ordinary untrained people, like ordinary and even language poets. Now, what is metalinguistic behavior? It is exactly what J says it is: it is the use of one language [the meta-l] to talk about another language [the object-l]; it can also be seen in the use of a language to talk about that very language: English to talk about English, etc. 2500 years ago, the Sanskrit grammarians invented a rigorous metalanguage to talk about Sanskrit: it consisted of some Sanskrit words, and Skt syntax, morphology, and phonology, etc., but with the addition of a set of metalinguistic [auditory, non-visual] markers that was invented for the sake of clarity and conciseness -- this was still a largely oral, pre-lierate culture. Well, I won't go into how much more impressed I am by them than by, say, Wittgenstein. That's a sidetrack. Jakobson has taught us to see metalanguage in everyday discourse. Look, it is prominent in the language behavior of children, in fact much more prominent in them than in most adults [except for the occasional eccentrics like poets and other lovers of words]. Look at the pre-linguistic babble of your children in their cribs. The ba-ba-ba, ma-ma-ma stuff. Well, it is on one level clear exploratory phonology. But it is also a metalinguistic exploration of the range of the meaningful sound-units [phonemes] of the speech-community that the child finds herself surrounded by, immersed in. Look at your toddlers. Look at all of the little word-substitutions that they busy themselves with: that is metalanguage at play. A lot of what used to pass as "grammar" in school was really a rudimentary form of metalinguistic analysis of the language that teachers are trying still to get us to master. Look at the knock-knock jokes and 'who am I?' riddles that your kids like to play. Their steady popularity is a measure of the metalinguistic interests of children. Metalanguage is in constant operation in foreign language classes that you encourage your kids to take. To a great extent, I view my own college career as nothing but a series of new metalinguistic exercises. Etc. etc. etc. Kids are more preoccupied with metalinguistic games etc. than their parents precisely because they are trying to come to grips with that code that HT doubts exists. Well, most adults have stopped thinking about the code, and now they doubt that it exists, because they have internalized it and it operates in them without any assistence from them whatsoever. It is all perfectly 'natural' until something comes along to disrupt its smooth unconscious operation. I would guess that most of us on this list are also, like the kids, intensely interested in the disruptions of that unconscious operation in us. I know that many of you are because I have seen it in your writing. Well, what about poetry and metalanguage? Two entirely different operations. I don't want to confuse the two. But poetics is a sub-branch of metalinguistics from my point of view. I have written papers on the verbal contests, riddle contests and poetic bragging contests, of old Vedic poetry. It is clear that in most poetic traditions of the world, the person who gravitates toward poetry also gravitates toward metalanguage, as well as what I would call proto-linguistics. This has to do with the material that they work with, their words, of course. I read language poetry as a kind of poetry that is preoccupied with metalanguage. But then again a lot of other poetry is preoccupied in that too. Of course, I've gotten all of this into my head from thinking about J's take on metalanguage for a very long time. Well, I've gone on too long. Perhaps Jonathan and Harold and I can come to see alike on this. George Thompson [p.s. Here's an example of metalinguistic humor that I found in a book by Steven Pinker: A woman gets into a taxi in Boston's Logan airport and asks the driver, "Can you take me someplace where I can get scrod?" He says, "Gee, that's the first time I've heard it in the pluperfect subjunctive." See, even cab drivers do it!] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 18:28:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: levitsk@ATTGLOBAL.NET Subject: Re: A Poetics Colloquium: Body/Sex/Writing - C. Alexander MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enjoying this, thank you. Those interested may also want to go to the site https://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit/narrativity/issue_one/ where there are some pieces along the same lines including one by me (Rachel Levitsky) and Bob Gluck and Pamela Lu and Camille Roy and Lisa Robertson and many more. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:42:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: New From Leroy! Mime-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Renee Gladman and Leroy are proud to announce the publication of the second title in Series II of Leroy chapbooks: AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF A CYBORG Bhanu Kapil Rider Bhanu Kapil Rider is a British-Indian writer living in Colorado. A book of her prose, The Vertical Interrogation of Strangers, is forthcoming from Kelsey Street Press. ** from the section "Going beyond pleasure, in three easy steps" One: I have no sense-strands left. Only the track screech of the drawer when I pull it out. Looking for paper, this. (Metal.) I saw something, I thought it was a corpse laid to bone - - Long Beach, CA - - on a white bed-sheet. A house with palms and the shadow of one palm. I saw it. In the Long Beach Museum of Art. Another lie. Someone sent me a postcard from St. Paul. (It's been like this for a long time. I have no questions as such. My body does not follow.) ** Leroy's efforts to publish innovative prose and poetry by mostly emerging or geographically obscured writers have resulted in thoughtfully designed and beautiful, hand-stitched books. To view these works online (covers only), please visit the Duration Press web site at http://www.durationpress.com Subscriptions are available for $18 for 4 books, or can be purchased for $5 each. Please make checks payable to Renee Gladman To contact Renee Gladman/Leroy, use the following e-mail address: rgladman@php.ucsf.edu or write to: Renee Gladman Leroy 3180 18th Street, Suite 201 San Francisco, CA 94110 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 08:53:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: levitsk@ATTGLOBAL.NET Subject: F.Howe/Sikelianos this Friday NYC Comments: To: "Undisclosed Recipients"@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ENJOY BELLADONNA* 7:00 pm, FRIDAY OCTOBER 6, 2000 Fanny Howe (The Deep North, O=92Clock) & Eleni Sikelianos (The Book of Tendons) at Bluestockings Women's Bookstore 172 Allen Street between Rivington and Stanton Contact: (212)777-6028 for more information ------------------------- "Writing is boring and gets your hand tired" --5th grade student ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:59:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kyle Conner Subject: HIGHWIRE READING 10/7 Comments: To: CAConrad13@hotmail.com, cx321@hotmail.com, fhaeussl@astro.ocis.temple.edu, hannahjs@sas.upenn.edu, louischw@prodigy.net, MacPoet1@aol.com, malavech2@aol.com, marjh@altavista.com, morillo673@aol.com, abdalhayy@aol.com, aberrigan@excite.com, abirge@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, agil@erols.com, allison_cobb@edf.org, ALPlurabel@aol.com, amorris1@swarthmore.edu, Amossin@aol.com, apr@libertynet.org, avraham@sas.upenn.edu, ayperry@aol.com, Babsulous@aol.com, baratier@megsinet.net, bcole@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, bdowns@columbiabooks.com, Becker@law.vill.edu, bette343@hotmail.com, BMasi@aol.com, bochner@prodigy.net, booglit@excite.com, BrianJFoley@aol.com, BStrogatz@aol.com, cahnmann@dolphin.upenn.edu, charleswolski@hotmail.com, chris@bluefly.com, Chrsmccrry@aol.com, coryjim@earthlink.net, Cschnei978@aol.com, daisyf1@juno.com, danedels@sas.upenn.edu, dburnham@sas.upenn.edu, dcpoetry@mailcity.com, DennisLMo@aol.com, DROTHSCHILD@penguinputnam.com, dsilver@pptnet.com, dsimpson@NETAXS.com, ejfugate@yahoo.com, ekeenagh@astro.ocis.temple.edu, eludwig@philadelphiaweekly.com, ENauen@aol.com, ErrataBlu@aol.com, esm@vm.temple.edu, Feadaniste@aol.com, fleda@odin.english.udel.edu, Forlano1@aol.com, FPR@history.upenn.edu, fuller@center.cbpp.org, GasHeart@aol.com, gbiglier@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, gmarder@hotmail.com, gnawyouremu@hotmail.com, goodwina@xoommail.com, HighwireGallery@aol.com, hstarr@dept.english.upenn.edu, hthomas@Kutztown.edu, icepalace@mindspring.com, insekt@earthlink.net, ivy2@sas.upenn.edu, jeng1@earthlink.net, jennifer_coleman@edf.org, jimstone2@juno.com, jjacks02@astro.ocis.temple.edu, JKasdorf@mcis.messiah.edu, JKeita@aol.com, jlutt3@pipeline.com, jmasland@pobox.upenn.edu, JMURPH01@email.vill.edu, johnfattibene@juno.com, josman@astro.ocis.temple.edu, jschwart@thunder.ocis.temple.edu, jvitiell@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, jwatkins@unix.temple.edu, kelly@dept.english.upenn.edu, Kjvarrone@aol.com, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, kristing@pobox.upenn.edu, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, kzeman@sas.upenn.edu, lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu, lcary@dept.english.upenn.edu, leo@isc.upenn.edu, lgoldst@dept.english.upenn.edu, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, llisayau@hotmail.com, lorabloom@erols.com, lsoto@sas.upenn.edu, MARCROB2000@hotmail.com, marf@NETAXS.com, matthart@english.upenn.edu, Matthew.McGoldrick@ibx.com, mbmc@op.net, Measurelvis@aol.com, melodyjoy2@hotmail.com, mgpiety@drexel.edu, mholley@brynmawr.edu, michaelmccool@hotmail.com, miyamorik@aol.com, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, mnichol6@osf1.gmu.edu, mollyruss@juno.com, mopehaus@hotmail.com, MTArchitects@compuserve.com, mytilij@english.upenn.edu, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, nawi@citypaper.net, odonnell@siam.org, penwaves@mindspring.com, pla@sas.upenn.edu, poetry4peeps@hotmail.com, putnamc@washpost.com, QDEli@aol.com, rachelmc@sas.upenn.edu, rdupless@vm.temple.edu, rediguanas@erols.com, repohead@rattapallax.com, richardfrey@dca.net, robinh5@juno.com, ron.silliman@gte.net, SeeALLMUSE@aol.com, sernak@juno.com, Sfrechie@aol.com, singinghorse@erols.com, stewart@dept.english.upenn.edu, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu, susan.wheeler@nyu.edu, SusanLanders@yahoo.com, swalker@dept.english.upenn.edu, Ron.Swegman@mail.tju.edu, Tasha329@aol.com, tdevaney@brooklyn.cuny.edu, thorpe@sas.upenn.edu, travmar03@msn.com, twells4512@aol.com, upword@mindspring.com, v2139g@vm.temple.edu, vhanson@netbox.com, vmehl99@aol.com, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, wvanwert@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, wwhitman@libertynet.org, ywisher@hotmail.com, zurawski@astro.temple.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HIGHWIRE READINGS NOW AT LA TAZZA 108 Chestnut Street, Philadelphia in Old City between 2nd and Front Stre= ets Every other Saturday @ 6:30 PM October 7 Elliot Levin and Allene Powell Steinberg. You know Elliot Levin, he=92s a regular hep-cat on the Philadelphia scen= e. He=20 plays a mean saxophone. We=92re working hard to find the writer who can = stand=20 her ground with Elliot. Allene is sure to knock your socks off, just ask= =20 C.A. Conrad. October 21 Alicia Askenase and Charles Borkhuis Alicia Askenase curates the readings at the Walt Whitman Center on Rutge= rs=20 University campus in Camden, NJ. Charlse Borkhuis has two new books=20 available, Mouth of Shadows (Spuyten Duyvil Press, 2000) and Alpha Ruins= =20 (Bucknell University Press, 2000). November 4 Ixnay Magazine Benefit for Issue 5 The bash for the new issue will certainly be a tasty affair. The editors= ,=20 Chris and Jenn McCreary, are keeping the poets/performers anonymous unti= l=20 further notice. Keep your ears to the ground. November 18 Don Riggs and Wendy Kramer Don Riggs is the man behind many Philadelphia contemporary writers. Wend= y=20 Kramer reads from sculptures she makes out of found materials. December 2 Fran Ryan and Prageeta Sharma Fran Ryan is writing a book literally about the politics of labor and=20 figuratively about Philadelphia trash workers. Prageeta Sharma=92s Bliss= To=20 Fill (Subpress, 2000) is one of the hottest selling books on the Subpres= s=20 list. Don=92t miss her. December 16 Janet Mason and Anselm Berrigan Janet Mason will make you crack up laughing and send you home thinking. = Anselm Berrigan is our holiday gift for you, our faithful followers. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 13:31:52 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Blau DuPlessis Subject: Re: A Poetics Colloquium: Body/Sex/Writing - MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Readers: when people get to Body/Sex/Writing 4.2 (mine), they might be marginally amused to note that the notorious WRAP of computers did not allow it to look the way "I" originally "intended" it to--that is, a line of sound translation and a line of normative text just below (or was it above? which is on top?), which just goes to show that the computer body of sex/writing had its own ideas on the "subject" and did something beyond what "I" desired. That is, the way my piece looks is an allegory of the unintended subversions of desire, and for all "I" know, it might be better off the new-wrap way. affectionately, Rachel (Blau DuPlessis) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:19:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: adventures in poultry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >David. While I find the French theorists (to the extent - which isnt great - that I've read them)interesting and their contribution is obviously significant, for me they degenerate too much into obfuscation, and i think this is a tendency with many, not all, of the Langpos. An example is Silliman's recent reference to the L movement as being neo-structuralist. Means what? And if you follow that with another fairly abstract term you have the interaction of two variables until the discourse or colloquy becomes virtually incomprehensible. But Bernstein and Silliman et al are marvelllous poets. And the L movement has (and still is)of great interest and some influence. It will have could have major repercussions)Altho such obfuscation may well work against the "project" of undermining and "attacking" the bourgeois or the patriarchal language because those one might influence are simply baffled. And the there is the problem of: how does L poetry actually bring about any positive o r progressive change both in writing practice and in the social-political world. If the sign is "oppressive" or not, if transparent language is oppressive (and I'm not in favour of a return to simplistic "realism",then how do we or they use that fact to change things? Perhaps this slide toward abstraction is an indication of the way L poetry can become or is (in the scheme of things so to speak) irrelevant. I also saw that part in "The Confessions". Apparently the idea of "subvocalising" as L heijinian calls it is relatively a new practice. I dont think Derrida makes much sense. I, for example, puked before I mewled and then I learnt to read and write. Writing is another way of speaking or it is mostly). Or: does using big words like post-structuralsim or neo-structuralism (neo-struct ... a new structuralist or a sort of half structuralist?)do any one any good? Is any one the happier?Is the revolution closer? Do we write better or more interestingly? Or do we start to cut ourselves of from life and reality. >From: David Baptiste Chirot >Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 13:05:23 -0500 >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: adventures in poultry > > Apolgies Bill--you are right--shd read more Derrida--but wasn't >taking >a swipe at him as don't know enough to anyway--only read two books long >ago > one in french was very clear but one i read in english i cdn'tmake >head or tale of > > that was long ago--i probably cdn't understand either one in my >present advanced >state of mental decay > > may be some problems are with translations? > > also many of these things he writes about mean something >differently in the context of Frecnh thinking, or European than for us in >us-a > > But one thing serious i was taking swipe at the description in the >post, not of the work being described > > alsoi think it is a complete myth that speech was dominant and not >writing > > that was a very long time ago St Augustine was shocked to see St >Jerome reading silently! > > "no one had ever HEARD of such a thing"! > > i think in America maybe we get it confused as for example when >Olson wrote Projective Verse piece in 1950--it is SPEECH he wants to get >back! > > part of it may be rebellion of one generation against the previous >one, from which it takes what is of use to/for itself and then moves on-- > > In Derrida's case as was long ago i don't recall all his >positions-- > > but traditionally writing was an instrument of power, a sign of >power > > by far most people could't read > > to me i think Ring Lardner put it best re writing/speech: > > "Shut up he explained." > > to me that shows it is more a both/and than an either/or > > but then i think maybe i tend to bet on both sides at same > time here-- > > that way as Joey Pesci explains to Bobby De Niro in RAGING BULL: > > "If you win, you win. If you lose, you still win. You can't lose. > So what the ***** you worried about?" > > --onwo/ards > >dbc > >On Fri, 29 Sep 2000 Austinwja@AOL.COM wrote: > >> In a message dated 9/28/00 8:08:54 PM, dbchirot@CSD.UWM.EDU writes: >> >> << Touche, Mark! >> >> actually--the description here sounds to me like first grade >> lessons >> in reading-- >> >> >> >> Hi David. Seems I must repeat and repeat. What has been ignored in both >> your and Mark's responses is my focus on speech vs. writing as a hierarchy >> with speech on the top rung. Derrida violates that privileging of speech and >> I perceive the langpoets as the closest thing we have in poetry to a similar >> dissembling. They talked about it in print, after all, so this is not >> reaching on my part. My comment which you both refer to immediately follows >> that point. In context, it is quite nonsensical to read my comment as >> placing Olson or Williams within a Derridian "circle." Both poets are firmly >> rooted in the hierarchy (and great poets both). Derrida collapses speech >> into writing. Its potential to mean does not issue from intention, or voice, >> or a new American language that somehow transcends, or the breath (which >> clearly privileges voice as in Olson). For Derrida, the system must be in >> place for any one of its elements to mean. Writing is not a secondary >> version of speech. Rather, at best, speech may be understood as a subtext >> within writing. Langpo is somewhere on this path--Olson and Williams are >> not. Gotta read the entire post, guys, and put it all together before you >> jump. Gotta read lots of Derrida too since it's quite impossible for me or >> anyone to repeat his arguments in total on the list. I must by necessity >> assume more than passing familiarity. Agree or disagree about my view of >> langpo, love Derrida or hate him, but anyone can be misprisoned out of >> context. You don't really want to do that, do you? That's really first >> grade stuff. Best wishes to you both, Bill >> > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 19:10:05 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Tranter Subject: Frost, at Midnight Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I always knew Robert Frost was bad, but I never knew just how bad until I read the recent obituary for London East End gangster Reggie Kray (1933-2000) in The Times: _______________________________ "Reggie was the more calculating brother. He established a meeting place for criminals, became a master of the protection racket and was prepared to confront rival gangs with violence if necessary. Their murder of Jack "The Hat" McVitie was as horrific as anything portrayed in Goodfellas or Reservoir Dogs. The victim was held from behind by Ronnie, who urged his brother "Kill him, Reg, do It." Reggie used a knife so thoroughly that McVitie's liver fell out. Tony Lambrianou got rid of the body by having it crushed inside a car into a three-foot (1m) square cube, referred to by The Firm as "the Oxo". Meanwhile Ronnie, a homosexual, took exception to being described by George Cornell, an associate of another gang, as a "fat poof". Ronnie took an automatic pistol into the Blind Beggar public house in Bethnal Green and, as the jukebox played the Walker Brothers' song The Sun Ain't Gonna Shine Any More, shot him dead. In 1969, Ronnie and Reggie were jailed for life for the McVitie and Cornell killings. When examined by Home Office psychiatrists, Reggie Kray tried to present himself self as a cultivated man who enjoyed listening to Maria Callas, the operatic soprano, and reading poems by Robert Frost." _______________________________ Which poem by Robert Frost, I wonder? "The Death of the Hired Man" (1914), perhaps? John Tranter, Editor, Jacket magazine from John Tranter Editor, Jacket magazine: http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/ - new John Tranter homepage - poetry, reviews, articles, at: http://www.austlit.com/johntranter/ - ancient history - the late sixties - at: http://setis.library.usyd.edu.au/tranter/index.html ______________________________________________ 39 Short Street, Balmain NSW 2041, Sydney, Australia tel (+612) 9555 8502 fax (+612) 9818 8569 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 20:48:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Larsen Subject: Re: metonym from my dad In-Reply-To: <043a01c02bcd$28c58fe0$dcfe6520@herbert> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:29 PM 10/1/00 -0400, Rachel Levitstky wrote: >Around our building in Bed-Sty were these shrubs that flowered and released >an odd but pleasurable smell each June, which each year lightened me upon >smelling it, knowing then that in a week school would be out for the summer. >--paraphrased from Herbert Levitsky Recently I realized the reason my friends always rehash the same "outrageous" stories about my partying when they get together is that my partying serves as a convenient metonymy for their own, in that it occurred in the same room as theirs, & so for whatever reason it's more fun to talk about how I wound up handcuffed to the radiator than how they got that scar on their face LRSN ps I still like to party ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 00:13:19 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: adventures in poultry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 10/2/00 7:33:40 PM, markducharme@HOTMAIL.COM writes: << Dear Bill, I don't think it's fair for you to suggest that I didn't read your whole post, or that I wasn't responding to what you said, just because I didn't take up the total sweep of your argument. I found a passage in your post reductive, & I responded to it in a way that suggested as much. (While you have defended your narrow use of the term "speech," I think it's asking a bit much to insist that the word be read in strictly Derridean terms, in the context of this list. It's one thing for our collective sense of the word to INCLUDE Derrida's use of, what I assume is the French "parole" (or any narrower, more focused philosophical use of any word); quite another for it to be inappropriate somehow for me to slip into the Williamsian sense as well. Since there are a number of active poets on this list, I would have thought such slippage would have been part of the point of any ensuing discussion. Similarly, what the passage in question DID suggest YOU meant-- that the awareness of space on the page was somehow "Derridean"-- ignoring about a century of work beginning, ironically, with Mallarm=E9 if I'm not mistaken, who Derrida surely must be aware of & therefore potentially "influenced" by-- seems, to put it a little more bluntly than I'd like to, ridiculous. Olson & Williams just seemed the most obvious examples. And that's precisely why I added another post, to explain what I had (it=20 seems wrongly) taken for granted. But I still contend that in context my=20 comment was adequately limited, and that the "sweep" of any argument is=20 crucial to understanding its terms. Isn't that generally accepted? If=20 someone uses the term "unconscious" in an argument regarding psychological=20 theory, and someone else interprets that to mean knocked out cold--well, sur= e=20 the word out of context is liable to that misinterpretation. Though I=20 understand how anyone not so focused on Derrida might have read what you=20 read. The Mallarme issue is pretty familiar to all of us, but Derrida is a=20 philosopher, not a poet in the narrow sense. It just makes more sense to me= =20 that Mallarme is Derridian than the other way around, in the way that=20 Shakespeare was Freudian (according to Jones) and not the other way around.=20= =20 Derrida's use of the term "speech" narrow? Hmmm . . . haven't heard that=20 before. By the way, "parole" is Saussure, and Barthes early on, not Derrida= .=20 And there are important differences between the three. I've already posted= =20 a "to be fair" addendum, so I think I have been. While I would never suggest that poststructuralist theory, including Derrida, had no bearing on the development of Langpo, again what I felt reductive was your suggestion, by omission, that poetics as such had less importance than this one point of intersection-- which I understand, by many of your posts, is an important one for you. I'm not trying to be "anti-theoretical" here; again, much of that post I didn't have any problem with, so didn't comment on-- because I don't have *time* to comment on everything. Neither do I have the time to comment on everything--hence my assumption of=20 "familiarity." This is not a problem for me, Mark. I always enjoy the give= =20 and take, and your response demontrated to me the need for clarification, fo= r=20 which I thank you. Hence the follow up posts. My education is in literatur= e=20 and philosophy, so I am guilty of seeing things always in philosophical term= s. --& Yes, if it's any consolation, the Language poets are clearly more Derridean than Olson or Williams. That goes without saying-- though you say it better than I could.... Well, that's kind of you sir. But you're no slouch. And for some it isn't=20 as obvious as you suggest. =20 So I hope this "explains" a comment you obviously took more seriously than I did. & No hard feelings, as they say. There never was, Mark. That ain't how I'm wired. Sure I would prefer a=20 response something to the effect of "This seems wrong to me. Would you=20 explain your meaning?" rather than "This is stupid," or anything in that=20 vein. But I don't understand anyone having hard feelings over generally=20 anonymous posts. It's just words on a "page" which, come to think of it,=20 pretty much sums up human cognition and experience. (Got a feeling I'm gonn= a=20 have to explain this--please NO!) What I always take seriously is good=20 conversation, and again I thank you for that. For me, this is fun. =20 All Best, Mark DuCharme And the same to you, Mark, always. Keep me honest. I appreciate it. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 08:58:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: bring me a shrubbery In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Who's hitting a target? Did I say there was anything wrong with being a huge berserk rebel warthog? On Fri, 29 Sep 2000, Richard Dillon wrote: > All this brilliance expended to hit the wrong target. > > >>>> Early on, Eliot began to sing the philosophical/visionary songs he then > > spent a lifetime perfecting. Like George Herbert Walker Bush, he strode > > full formed into life - an adult.<<< > > > > I want it noted that the letters in George Herbert Walker Bush anagram > > perfectly into HUGE BERSERK REBEL WARTHOG. > > > > Anagram kabbalah don't lie-- > > > > Gwyn McVay > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 10:52:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damion Searls Subject: Re: metonymy: was Re: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" George Thompson writes: >No, it [A.K.'s handbag] is significant >because of the habitual association of the two through contact. > ... >When I can no longer see Anna Karenina because she is dead and buried, it is >her handbag or some other thing that I recall having rubbed up against her >that I use as a fetish to remind me of her. That is metonymy. > ... >Okay? Surely, these relationships are NOT metaphorical. Right? Now why, unless we grant the premise that Jakobson is infallible, would something that's not metaphorical *need* to be metonymical?? There are only two possibilities on God's green earth? The handbag is "significant" because of its contact with A.K., it's "used as a fetish," but those aren't enough? It has to be a metonym too, just because it's not a metaphor? (Ditto for your claim about the "metonymic" aspects of the thug's cigarette. I agree that your other examples [Friday's footsteps, lock of hair, #42, etc.] are metonyms.) I think, George, you've unintentionally shown that Jakobson's distinction only makes sense if you make at least one of the terms so diffuse as to be almost all-encompassing ("metonymy" = "being associated with") ("metaphor" stays pretty specific, but that's because it's the politically bad pole, at least in every post-Jakobsonian article I've seen). And if Jakobson meant something that all-encompassing, I find it suspicious that he would try to jargonize his point with a term that, pre-Jakobson, was quite specific. curmudgeonically, Damion Searls ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:50:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dickison Subject: THOMAS GLAVE at The Poetry Center, Thurs Oct 5, 4:30 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable POETRY CENTER 2000 The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives presents Afternoon reading: Jamaican American fiction writer THOMAS GLAVE Thursday afternoon, October 5, 4:30 pm, free @ The Poetry Center, SFSU THOMAS GLAVE's debut book of stories, _Whose Song? and Other Stories_ (City Lights, 2000), has met with acclaim from such luminaries as Wilson Harris, Gloria Naylor, Carole Maso, and Clarence Major. Mr. Glave was born in the Bronx and grew up there and in Kingston, Jamaica. His work has earned many honors, including an O. Henry Prize (he is the second gay African American writer, after James Baldwin, to win this award) and a Fulbright fellowship to Jamaica. While there, he worked on issues of social justice, and helped found the Jamaica Forum of Lesbians, All-Sexuals, and Gays. o He lives and teaches in Binghamton, New York. "What a writer! What a book! Glave is a brilliant writer of startlingly fresh prose, a writer who keeps you in a constant presence of experience, as if you were moving around in a clear dream. His stories are intricate tapestries of life rendered through a triumphant act of the imagination." -Clarence Major "Remarkable stories by a gifted writer who explores, in prose and rhythms of imaginative moment, the stresses, the split-minds, the implicit grandeurs, the subtleties, the terrors, of emotional desire and obsession: one is drawn compulsively into character and event." -Wilson Harris "A fiercely imagined debut-intensely lyric, driven by the desire in the face of everything for truth, justice, beauty." -Carole Maso ". . . Thomas Glave walks the path of such greats in American literature as Richard Wright and James Baldwin while forging new ground of his own. His voice is strong and his technique dazzling as he cuts to the bone of what it means to be black in America, white in America, gay in America, and human in the world at large. . . . A true talent of the 21st century." -Gloria Naylor COMING UP: next week, same place & time.... Afternoon reading: innovative new fiction from CHRIS KRAUS & MIKE AMNASAN Thursday afternoon October 12, 4:30 pm, free @ The Poetry Center, SFSU CHRIS KRAUS's books-_Aliens & Anorexia_ and _I Love Dick_-transgress all typical notions of fiction, bending writing to the demands and purposes of life itself in the process. _Aliens & Anorexia_ (Semiotext(e)/Smart Art, 2000) combines passion and polemic in a philosophically sophisticated rejection of cultural cynicism. "From the end of the world-New Zealand-to Los Angeles, Africa and Berlin, past attempted escapes through the body's tunnels and telephone wires, Gravity is the true heroine of this very serious comedy" (Fanny Howe). Ms. Kraus edits Semiotext(e)'s Native Agents series of books. A filmmaker as well as writer, she lives in Los Angeles. MIKE AMNASAN's new novel _Beyond the Safety of Dreams_ was just published by Krupskaya Books. "It is the most painfully honest writing I have read in a long time," writes Tom Beckett, "a book of revelations about alienation and abjection, a disturbing account of one man's struggle to find a way to feel at home in an inhospitable world." As a playwright, Mr. Amnasan has had presented in staged readings in the Bay Area his dramatic works _Revery_ , _Unfair Play_ and _The Poet Killer_. He lives in San =46rancisco, where he recently completed his B.A. at SFSU on a scholarship from Sheet Metal Workers Local #104. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D THE POETRY CENTER is located in Humanities 512 on the SW corner of the San Francisco State University Campus, 1600 Holloway Avenue 2 blocks west of 19th Avenue on Holloway take MUNI's M Line to SFSU or from Daly City BART free shuttle or 28 bus =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Readings that take place at The Poetry Center are free of charge. The Poetry Center's programs are supported by funding from Grants for the Arts-Hotel Tax Fund of the City of San Francisco, the California Arts Council, the National Endowment for the Arts, Poets & Writers, Inc., and The Fund for Poetry, as well as by the College of Humanities at San =46rancisco State University, and by donations from our members. Join us! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ vox 415-338-3401 ~ fax 415-338-0966 http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 19:19:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik Couldn't for the life of me remember if I sent this out or not. John C. Erianne John is editor of Devil Blossoms and the online 'zine The Doomed City. He can be reached at j.erianne@worldnet.att.net. YET ANOTHER POEM ABOUT POETRY The tweed suits have said that we mustn't write poems about poetry and it's true that I've written far too many of them. And maybe it's because my poetic license has no pedigree and I don't really give a shit about winning a Pushcart or Pulitzer that I've allowed myself such freedom, so here is yet another one for the endless miles of traffic and all the roads not taken for the bicycle cops in the park, the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker, all the lawyers, doctors, reporters, O.J, and Johnny Cochrane on Court TV, all the moguls, drug dealers and thieves. for the U.S. v. Microsoft. for Elián Gonzáles and Fidel Castro and all the Haitians who still haven't had their day in court. for Israel, Palestine, Bosnia and Northern Ireland for the revolutionaries, reactionaries, and terrorists and anyone else who has more guns than sense. for the Republicans, the Democrats and the Disco Queens of Europe. for the guy next door and his wife who used to blow men in bars for a beer. for the communist, fascist, and rapist, anarchist, abortionist, lobbyist, and white supremacist, absurdist, atheist and Buddhist, the contortionist or any other "ist" you can think of. for Mumia Abu-Jamal and Leonard Peltier. for all the poets in or out of jail, living or dead in unmarked graves, voices that haunt us still. for anyone and everyone, but mostly for me, because although I don't write Shakespearean sonnets, when I get my groove on I am the shotgun blast, the unholy streak of lightning in the sky, the grinning face at your window, and the stick of dynamite in your ear. and if Shakespeare were alive today, he wouldn't be writing poems about poetry, he'd be out in Hollywood giving rim-jobs to film producers and script-doctoring Esterhaus, and I'd be right here, right where I've always been still lighting your goddamn fuse. John C. Erianne ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 17:34:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damion Searls Subject: Bly's translation book (was Re: Bad Translations) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >didn't Bly write a book on translating poetry? is >it still in print? The Eight Stages of Translation (Rowan Tree Press, 1983): an essay taking Rilke's Sonnet to Orpheus I.21 as its exemplar, followed by a section of translated poems (10 poems, 8 poets, 7 languages). ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 21:28:22 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: VOA: The Voice of Authority 1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit VOA: Voice of Authority Colloquium 1.0 Patrick Herron Dearest POETICS reader, I love you. Yes, you. Only you. For many of you, subjugating your reader seems an ideal you have been encouraged to embrace throughout your development as writers. We are taught from grade school to do things like adopt the third person in voice, be fully descriptive/obsessively nominalist, & make the sentences as un-subjective sounding as possible, thereby giving more authority to your writing. Text is one technology to achieve such subjugation in a mass of people. the internet is just another. neither medium, however, NEEDS to remain a tool for the development of authority/subject relationships. only relatively recently in the history of the development of the human brain/mind has it become possible to move beyond the dominant/submissive mode of language. Language can and has for a long time functioned as a way to make people to submit to authority. but language can also now inform people that language itself can program them, and language can also be used to have the reader program the language (metaprogramming), thereby finally turning the tables on authority (deprogrammation). One such example: "But in my formative years, it was hard to find models that moved beyond objectification. Gay writing, on the other hand, gave me ... techniques for turning the tables and objectifying men. ... I saw how erotic writing could be more than just a description of sexual acts. It could create a new sexual relationship: the writer as top, the reader as bottom. " and "You don't have to do the deed for it to be real. " -- Dodie Bellamy, "The Queer Issue," _Village Voice_, June 21-27, 2000 Now Dodie is surely very articulate on sexuality. I share her general notion of "whatever it takes to get off." But I think there is a fundamental disconnect for her, illustrated in the above quotes, between issues of subjugation, sexuality, feminism, and writing. (I think I can speak of Dodie, since she seems to desire to tie her person into her writing.) Perhaps I can dispel her suggestions with two questions: === 1. What is feminist about dominating your reader? 2. How can you be sure that the deed and the tale of the deed are on the same plane of reality? === 1. Why not empower the reader instead by having the reader screw your text? The author subjugates the reader: this is the same thing the Langpo got up in arms about; the subjugation of the reader is something for the workshops, for the newspapers, for that gawdawful Voice Of Authority we are taught from day one to write in. In order to be "good" writers. Etc. etc. Allowing the reader to penetrate the text, and not vice-versa, seems to me to break with the dominance and punishment of masculinity, the nature that fascinates the masculine with war, suffering, punishment, brutality, death, that replaces sex with brutality, that replaces reproduction and absorption and life with murder and dissection and death? Objectification seems fairly masculine to me. This "new" relationship is not new; it is as old as language itself, as old as the oracles, the god voice, and the humans submit. The opposite is what is new: it is only as of relatively late in human history that humans have a possibility for not submitting to that god-voice nature of language, that language can be used in modes other than the command mode. What Dodie seems to support, at least transitively in the above quotes, is the very functional center of paternal power structures and unlateralized linguistic centers in the brain. Language can be a portal into a person's brain; that portal is frequently used to manipulate people like puppets. But it also can be a portal to deprogram that very possibility of manipulation, to empower things other than the strength of orders & linguistic gestures of authority. Oh, to give the reader the chance to invent the text as it is read! Masculinity, division, colonialization and authority have served humanity well, it could be argued. (I don't agree with that, but heck, for argument's sake....) But they seem now more to lay waste than to help humanity survive, and it is time for something other than violence and division in this epoch of man. Why fuck something when there can be fucking? 2. Being sure about the reality either of text, the understanding of the text, or the act of flesh fucking, seems to me a position only some deity, some being equipped with metaphysical glasses, can assume. I am suspect of anyone with an objective window on reality. We cannot ever be sure if we are truly arbiters or witnesses of reality. Period. This misconception of metaphysical insight is but one legacy of god-mind and the slow lateralization of linguistic functions in the brain. I have been working for a long time on addressing this very topic. Appropriately, I am using the internet, that most distal form of human interaction, that most egregiously dictatorial marketing tool, that most exalted of high panoptic weapons ever formed, in order to criticize authority, and to make an illustration of this topic in general. Yes, a web site. But it is no ordinary web site, yet it is. Heh. It seems I have to use the authority-voice in order to get away from authority. Funny how contradictory that sounds. But, criminy, how many of you are even barely curious about the http://proximate.org site? I can tell by my other posts on the subject that almost all of you are either unequipped to deal with this topic of linguistic domination and aesthetics or you are simply not curious about an uncommon position for evaluating authority, consciousness, and media. Perhaps I am failing or just a pedantic dullard. Or just some dumb kid. Heh. C'est la merde. Ahh, my server logs, plains of dust, such barren fields! Perhaps I should have gone for that PhD and learned to submit to footnotes and my place in intellectual civilization (re: underfoot). It seems so many people were asleep when reading Genet. How gestures form power. Or maybe I was asleep, unwilling to accept how people are continually fed shit and go back for more. Patrick Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org http://proximate.org/ getting close is what we're all about here! Unnnh! Trixie! Go Speed! Oh Speed! Here comes Speed Racer! You were wonderful Trixie. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 00:34:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: cut out from the archives: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII == cut out from the archives: screams in hebrew and aramaic - loud voices in akkadian and mitannian - (modified from the akkadian) works of known or conjectured meaning with sumerian and akkadian words - i note in passing alan, alam = essri, 'form, statue.' even here the form is abject and wanton, the locus of desire. think of a particular class, whether or not sumerian, etc. so the same graphemes may be found within the "biblical" tradition and the presumed sumerian origins of writing. at the "/e/...)" for example. city is sumerian uru, perforated by a stick or stylus into clay, the gran- ularity inherited from the sumerian incision into the body of the woman or man. it is as if one stood on the shores of a gulf separating shumer from man and woman, woman or brother. think of lugal, sal, lu, dumu su-ba-ri- im. these languages erased across the text from which this text derives. to be born a _foundling_ on a moo or mud, dumuzi's dream, oral poetry, the protocols stuttered before every written. the tokens signify greek ideas, without the theory; i think of them as resonances across sumerian, luwian, palaic, hittite, akkadian, with _me,_ "attribute" in this context, an arid environ within and without sumer. return to sumerian excisions, the stylus cutting through the eye of the prisoner all across the region: no one, ever-vigilent, sees the enemy. the akkadians and sumerians were bored. the hittites enjoyed themselves in a dirt-free environment. there were contests: who had the cleanest, most proper body? whole populations on the move; everyone gives me texts in unknown scripts; i struggle with cuneiform incisions; this is how i earn my living. i orig- inate the contract, drawn on clay, bone, skin, unreadable eyes, severed genitals, the trampling of ashur. inanna! women speaking incomprehensible tongues, palawian, sumerian, hit- tite, works of unknown or conjectured meaning with sumerian and akkadian words, akkadian burrowings, abject and wanton, loci of desire. my name is a-bi. from the manifold of perverse sex, borrowing ideograms, other incisions, trades. you'll find me at sargon square. do i wander in a desert looking for you, o cuneiform? inanna, is this shumer, akkad? our names are our incisions. cut deep into us, we become them, exist: do we wander in a desert of names? i've seen ghosts in akkad. i've seen ghosts in shumer as well. i've seen them traveling. i've seen them carrying styli. i've seen them cut deeper into flesh than the world has rules. desire has swollen ghosts; writing procures them. burns and cuts leave scars. i look forward to screaming, burrowing, abject and wanton, in the desert blinded by speech. == ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 09:47:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lind, Joshua H." Subject: Re: Bad Translations, Bad Sonnets, etc. MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 michael amberwind wrote: >and speaking of Bly, is there a copy anwhere on >the net of his introduction to the Best of >American Poetry 2000? i am almost too afrraid to >see what poems he has chosen - am certain at >least on of the following words is in every poem > >light >dust >father >son >grief >Gnostic >air >field >tree > >or any other monosyllabic word that will leap >leap leap into our subconscious and make us wise ______________ Actually, Bly's word of choice was 'heat' -- and all the poems he selected displayed this mysterious quality which will presumably, as you suggest, "leap into our subconscious and make us wise." (This was for the 1999 "Best American Poetry"). I'll probably be chided for saying so in this venue, but I actually enjoyed many of the poems Bly chose; they were narrative, communicative, and humorous (despite his criteria for selection, which could be called 'vacant holism'). Incidentally, I would've jumped at the chance to take part in your translation project...but I'm too busy kicking myself for never having learned Esperanto! Cheers, Josh Lind Joshua H. Lind Enrollment Data Technician School of Continuing Studies University of St. Thomas ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:30:58 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Shapiro Subject: NYC Literary Event on October 12: six authors reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You are cordially invited to a literary event: Painted Bride Quarterly and Web Del Sol present A reading of authors at The National Arts Club Thursday October 12, 2000 7:00pm Reading on behalf of Web Del Sol Michael Brodsky (We Can Report Them) Jean Houlihan Maria Terrone Reading for Painted Bride Quarterly Richard Tayson (The Apprentice of Fever) Michele Wolf (Conversations During Sleep) Regie Cabico (Poetry Nation) October 12, 2000 7:00pm National Arts Club 15 Gramercy Park South (near 20th Street and Park Avenue) New York, New York Take the 6 train to 23 Street subway station. Please note: jackets required for men. To RSVP: please call (212) 604-4823 or email: gshapirony@aol.com About Painted Bride Quarterly Painted Bride Quarterly (www.webdelsol.com/pbq) is an independent, community-based literary magazine, published quarterly on the World Wide Web and annually in print, and has been in existence since 1973. Run by a democratic collective of editors, PBQ's aim has been to support regional and emerging artists, along presenting work by the best and established writers from across the country and around the world. The philosophy of the magazine is not to limit itself in terms of voice, school, or genre; both local and national writers in PBQ range from traditional to language school explorations. About Web Del Sol Web Del Sol (www.webdelsol.com) is a collaboration on the part of dozens of dedicated, volunteer editors, writers, poets, artists, and staff, whose job it is to acquire and frame the finest contemporary literary art and culture available in America and abroad. Linked to over 450 other websites, WDS receives over 1000 visitors per day, and over 30,000 unique visitors altogether. Web Del Sol cannot be classified as a literary publication or an Internet portal in the traditional sense (though it contains both subsets); rather, Web Del Sol is a literary arts and new media complex that pushes the envelope of both definitions. About The National Arts Club The National Arts Club is the former home of Samuel Tilden, Governor of New York, who won the popular vote for Presidency of the United States but lost in the electoral college to Rutherford B. Hayes. His library, along with the Astor and Lenox bequests, became the New York Public Library. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 00:45:15 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: FW: Nader is turned away at door of debate Comments: To: Wryting , Subsubpoetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nader is turned away at door of debate By JUSTIN POPE http://www.salon.com/politics/wire/2000/10/03/nader/index.html Oct. 04, 2000 | BOSTON (AP) -- Green Party presidential candidate Ralph Nader, shunned by the presidential debate commission, scored a ticket to Tuesday night's debate but was turned away at the door. "It's already been decided that whether or not you have a ticket you are not welcome in the debate," John Bezeris, a representative of the debate commission, told Nader. The commission had excluded all but Democratic and Republican candidates. "I didn't expect they would be so crude and so stupid," Nader said after being turned away. "This is the kind of creeping tyranny that has turned away so many voters from the electoral process." Nader, who took the subway to the debate site, had received the ticket as a gift from Todd Tavares, a 21-year-old Northeastern University student who said he got it from a roommate. When he arrived at the site of the debate at the University of Massachusetts-Boston, Bezeris, surrounded by several police officers, told Nader he could not enter because he was not an invited guest. Nader was among a trio of third-party candidates who did their best Tuesday to keep the Republican and Democratic nominees from stealing the show. Hours before the debate, a judge threw out a court challenge filed earlier in the day by Massachusetts Libertarians to try to force organizers to include their candidate, Harry Browne. "The plaintiffs have slept on their rights by waiting until the last minute to seek relief," Suffolk Superior Court Judge Gordon Doerfer ruled. He said intervening in the debates would deprive the public of information it needs about the candidates. The lawsuit claimed Browne should be included because Massachusetts, which officially recognizes the party, spent $900,000 to help pay for the debate. Nader also criticized the commission's decision to limit the debate to candidates with more than 15 percent support in national polls. Only the Democrat, Vice President Al Gore, and the Republican, Texas Gov. George W. Bush, qualified to participate. "They have the keys. This debate commission is a private company created by the two parties," Nader told about 1,000 supporters. "The thing is why do we as a society let them control the gateway? Why don't we have many gateways, many debates?" As he concluded his remarks some students chanted "Let Ralph debate! Let Ralph debate!" Reform Party candidate Pat Buchanan, meeting reporters in his Boston hotel, said it was unfair to keep his party out. He and Nader were appearing separately on Fox News Channel after the debate. "I feel like Slippery Rock State Teachers and we made the Final Four of the NCAAs and they won't even let us in the gymnasium," Buchanan said. "They won't even let us on the gym floor to show what we can do." Buchanan, who has more than $12 million in federal campaign funds to spend, outlined plans to launch an advertising campaign next week in states he says have been abandoned by Republicans, including California, New Jersey and most of New England. He is aiming for 5 percent of the popular vote in the Nov. 7 election to guarantee that the Reform Party gets federal matching funds again in 2004. Buchanan said the ads would run mainly on Christian radio stations and would highlight local concerns, such as immigration in California and Arizona. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 00:52:45 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: P R O X I M A T E 2 . 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ATTENTION!!! ATTENTION!!! ATTENTION!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! now available: !!! P R O X I M A T E v e r s i o n 2 . 0 !!! http://proximate.org/ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GETTING CLOSER IS WHAT WE'RE ALL ABOUT! FIND YOUR PROXY MATE! INTERACT WITH *YOUR* FRIEND, THE PROXIMATE WEB SITE! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Listen to what users *like you* have to say about proximate.org: "I never knew web sites could get so personal before." "It's like I found a long-lost friend!" "proximate.org has the hottest chicken parts around!" "I wonder if my computer can raise my children. If it can, then I'm sure proximate.org is the *best* parent for the job!" "The internet and, like, poetry, and like, art? And voices and all? Like, *wow*, you know?" "F*ck it, I hate that manipulative little f*cking web site. I mean, who does it think it is to tell *me* what to do?" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The p r o x i m a t e web site. Find out what so many people are talking about! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Proximate.org version 2.0 is now available at http://proximate.org/ Macromedia Flash and RealAudio plugins required. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MANY THANKS TO: Giles Hendrix for his expert knowledge and hard work on proximate 2.0. ***Upcoming for Version 3.0*** the as-yet-unnamed proximate poetry journal the journal will feature one writer per issue each issue will be theme-oriented themes will relate to: the technology of text gesture of text versus gesture of the body language and how it can enslave, liberate, or do nothing on the undefinability of selves and persons poetry (not poets and poet-myths) internet-mind and text-mind versus oral-mind !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Patrick Patrick Herron! patrick@proximate.org http://proximate.org/ getting close is what we're all about here! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:08:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: Announcements Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable This week and next week at the Poetry Project: Tonight, Wednesday, October 4th at 8 pm ROBERT CREELEY and PAUL VIOLI Robert Creeley, poet, novelist, short-story writer, essayist, editor, and teacher, will read selections from his latest book of poetry, Life & Death, forthcoming from New Directions this fall. Paul Violi is the author of eigh= t volumes of poetry, including Breakers (Coffee House Press, 2000). Friday, October 6th at 10:30 pm POETRY SLAM: THE COMPETITIVE ART OF PERFORMANCE POETRY A reading to celebrate the publication of this new anthology from Manic D Press. Editor Gary Mex Glazner and contributors Patricia Smith, Taylor Mali= , Stacy Chin, Regie Cabico, and others will read, followed by an open mike. Monday, October 9th at 8 pm MICHAEL BRODER and KRISTIN STUART Michael Broder=B9s poetry appears in the current issue of The Brooklyn Review Online. Kristin Stuart=B9s work may be seen in the journal XXX Fruit and others. She is currently in residence at Here gallery in Manhattan. Wednesday, October 11th at 8 pm JOHN GODFREY and ANGE MLINKO John Godfrey=B9s books include Midnight on Your Left (1988), Dabble (1982) an= d How to Give Yourself a Clean Shot (distributed nationally by The Needle Exchange). Ange Mlinko, editor of The Poetry Project Newsletter, is the author of Matinees (Zoland Books, 1999), which was named one of the Best Books of 1999 by Publishers Weekly. Friday, October 13th at 10:30 pm THE LUCKY 13 READING Get lucky at the Poetry Project this Friday the Thirteenth with readings an= d performances by the Jezebelles, Spit East, Raven, Regie Cabico as Cher and Tina Turn-her, Dr. Ducky Doolittle, and Bindlestiff Family Cirkus performer Scotty the Blue Bunny. Unless otherwise noted, admission to all events is $7, $4 for students and seniors, and $3 for Poetry Project members. Schedule is subject to change. The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church at the corner of 2nd Avenue and 10th Street in Manhattan. The Poetry Project is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information or visit our Web site at http://www.poetryproject.com. *** ANNOUNCEMENTS The Poetry Project needs a CD player! We are looking for someone to donate = a full-size (i.e. non-discman, non-boom box) CD player to use during readings and performances. If you think you might be able to help, please give us a call at (212) 674-0910, or email us at poproj@artomatic.com. Our gratitude will know no bounds. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 05:09:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: chris stroffolino Subject: Re: Colloquium 1.6: The STRAP-HANGER - Kevin Killian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Kevin, Good piece. I like where it takes the discussion. Been thinking about Basil lately.... Just saw the Monkees HEAD and she did cheorography and was thinking about how far 1968 seems fromthe early 80s' of "Mickey," (further than 1983 seems from now, to me at least) which I became more interested in once I discovered that Devo was the backing band. I've loved Conner, but have never been able to see "Breakaway." Will have to hold a "Breakaway" party perhaps. Also like your reference to Calpurnia as Lang-Pos (though seems to me the males were more barren--but then the barenness as fertile, whether intentionally or no....), and various strategies of seduction. The characterization of Taylor's Bauderlaire, the sexiness of Ngai's anti-sex (the via negativa, and the layered (5 dimensional) hilarity of "What was it Burt Bacharach said, ten years from now? "I've got the wedding bell blues...." Much more, of course, but a good read. thanks..... Poetics List Administration wrote: > Poetics List Colloquium: Group One, Number Six > > The STRAP-HANGER > by Kevin Killian > > Body, sex, writing, collide at the portal of scandal, or orality, though > why this should be the case I'm not sure. Under the face of scandal the > inside turns to outside, the personal and public confused, then conflated > into a politic. James Ellroy's *Black Dahlia,* with its indelible, > uncomfortable image of the woman sawn in half, her innards laid out for the > world to see. (All of Ellroy seems to flow from this trope - the Communist > witch hunt, the gabby psychoanalists, in *The Big Nowhere;* the "Hush-Hush" > ethos of *L.A. Confidential,* in which the unspeakable gets spoken via a > bizarre diaresis of bebop and camp slang - the ineluctable ooze of the > private towards the spectacular present.) When Scandal subsides, when the > great Mouth closes, the community it serves re-composes itself, however > slightly. > > Bob Gluck asks, "Why write about body and sex unless they are problems?" At > the DeYoung Museum here in San Francisco, a massive Bruce Conner show fills > a whole wing. There's a long dim gallery of the late 50s assemblages that > in photographs look so blurry, unreadable. Even up close, these large > constructions of wood, fabric, paint and filth are nearly unseeable - dark, > dirty and dingy - the eyes can't take them in. Basically so ambiguous > they're depressing. The broken spirits of Elizabeth Short - the *Black > Dahlia* - and the executed rapist Caryl Chessman are this space's saints. > "This stuff gives you the creeps," I heard David say. The next room > however's filled with sound and music and brightness, for it's a small > theater set up to play, over and over, Conner's short film "Breakaway" > (1966). I hadn't seen this before. It's a prototypical music video, such as > you might have seen in the early days of MTV - featuring the > choreographer/actress Toni Basil. The soundtrack is her singing this > insipid song - but it's not insipid, though produced perhaps in a garage > somewhere, with very muddy sound, heavy back bass beats, the kind of LA > session music I associate with the Motown covers people like Johnny Rivers > and the Mamas and the Papas used to put out - a music in its way hypnotic > and professional as anything out of Detroit, with its own fascination. And > when Conner films Basil, he has her dancing in perhaps a dozen different > outfits, which change every five hundred frames. Often she's nude, then has > her clothes on, then *some* clothes, and always this relentless, droning, > somehow sunny beat and her singing about how she's gonna break away from > her chains. She's made up in the Mod 60s style that Elizabeth Hurley is > always wearing now, and she's magnificent, exultant. Just perfect. I > remember seeing Basil as one of the dancers on my favorite TV show > *Hullabaloo,* in the films *The T.A.M.I. Show, Pajama Party,* and *Village > of the Giants,* the teen terror movie from the early 60s. She must have > been only 17 or 18 when she made "Breakaway," in which she's credited as > "Antonia Christina Basilotta" - to point up her ethnicity? (Big in the > 60s.) Later she played a much bleaker, proto-Lesbian version of herself in > the New American Cinema (*Five Easy Pieces, Easy Rider, The Last Movie, > Greaser's Palace, American Graffiti*) and still later engineered a > magnificent arrival - on MTV no less - for which she had this wonderful > early training - with her song "Hey Mickey" - remember? Okay, I'm making a > specious contrast between two periods of Conner's work - dark and light - > San Francisco and L.A. It's not only wrong, it's stupid. Still the > atmospheric change, as we walked between the two rooms, was almost > palpable, you could register it in your body. > > I wonder how Language Poetry managed to become a social phenomenon without > having first to endure the rigors of the sex scandal. The "disappearance of > the word, appearance of the world" aspect of L-P, its focus on language's > materiality, its drive to expose the ideology within formalism to improve > social conditions, had the perverse effect of insuring that its adherents > would appear, in the world's eyes, as sex-free, soulful and calculating all > at the same time, so we had a scandal of character; fifty Calpurnias in the > American tree. (This despite the personableness and indeed the sexual > attraction manifested by the poets themselves, as human beings, but that's > another story.) The sex of Language Poetry, in its classical period, was so > not there, so deferred and prohibited, that into this vacuum strode the New > Narrative writers, led by Kathy Acker, a bunch of hapless clowns sent to > relieve Mafeking; and afterwards, as we have seen in the past fifteen years > or so, sex (indeed narrative) has crept back into Language Writing. Is this > a good thing or a bad thing? Dunno, one of these poets has a passage in > every book that describes a sex life with such unblinking clinicism the > revulsion rises faster than the skin on Kristeva's cocoa. Yet as Dodie > (citing Delany) points out, everyone's gorge is set at a different level, > and one woman's filth is another's ambrosia. One young writer told me his > secret porn collection consisted of Sianne Ngai's essay on disgust and > overdetermination, "Raw Matter" in that chartreuse issue of *Open Letter* - > got him off every time. I stared, like, then, thinking of my own guilty > pleasure, *have you ever read "Slaves of the Empire" by Aaron Travis?* > > As writing disappears behind theory, its filthy ass remains visible, if > vestigial, a sad reminder of its once-alluring body in a desperate game of > hide and seek. I'm watching Toni Basil's body (on film) "glorying in itself > as transcendent, the vantage from which all that risk pays off" (Taylor > Brady) and yet my pleasure is spoiled by thinking, *She is being fed to me > through the menu of Mr. Bruce Conner, it's his imagination I'm buying into.* > > Dodie stands in front of an audience reading, perhaps, from *Cunt-Ups* or > *The Letters of Mina Harker* and feels miserable, invaded, "as though the > audience has X ray vision and can see down to the frayed elastic on my > panties. But really, it is I who have invaded my own privacy." She becomes > three people as she opens her mouth, the transgressor - confessor? - with a > mouthful of scandal; the frozen, desexualized public servant I suppose; and > these two combine to create the performer, the actress, she who pays for > the sins of the other two. Eve Black, Eve White, and what was the third's > name, who could carry off all the neuroses of Black and White? "Jane"? > Bruce Conner's *Black Dahlia,* suspended superbly on a plywood platform > almost above my head, parts dripping off, hanging from straps, unknowable > and almost invisible except as a shape of dark murk, dusty answers. > > But, Taylor, when I'm in a train as you describe, I don't have those > Baudelarian moments. I identify myself as the strap-hanger in Jen Hofer's > train; I experience that crowd as a smorgasbord of sensual delight. Is it > the prerogative of consciousness that makes me, I think quite without > shame, wonder when I meet any particular man what it would be like to have > sex with him? Or to be the figure crushed between two bodies always > straining, while strap-hanging, to squeeze from the situation - the lucky > situation - always the maximum frisson of contact, friction, pleasure? > Thinking it over (i.e. writing about it) this retrospective pleasure > "stiffens" into a problematic, due to writing's appeal to ethics. And to > aesthetics. *Why, it's not only wrong,* scream these two voices like cats > crying for food, *it's stupid!* I've gotten myself out of so many scrapes > by using the same alibi, *I wanted to know what it was like so I could > write about it.* The writing is the event. (So I can answer Laura's > question.) Bruce Conner, whose attorneys sent me an injunction (summer > 1996) forbidding me to use him as a character in a play I was writing, "Wet > Paint." And me thinking, all those wonderful lines already written for > Bruce Conner, so I did a global replace and made Bruce Conner into Kenneth > Anger, changing hardly a word, and Rex Ray played him. I'd been *censored* > - by an *iconoclast* - worst cut of all. Someone said he had cancer or > something. "Good!" I spat. > > *[Enter DIEGO RIVERA.]* > > RIVERA. Are they gone? > > ANGER. You are not marrying that Countess, I hope. > > RIVERA. Nor her daughter, Eva, either. I have made love to them both, but a > man has got to do what a man must do, for Stalin. > > ANGER. Substitute "Satan" for "Stalin," and there, in a nutshell, is my > reason for filming "Kustom Kar Kommandos." > > RIVERA. Feel, the sweat on my brow, flowing like wet bull sperm. > > ANGER. Ole! Senor Rivera, have you seen my property, Bobby Beausoleil? I > bought him for a trusty down at juvenile hall for two bottles of Dr. Pepper > and a rookie Roger Maris. > > RIVERA. They are throwing rice in my direction. What was it Burt Bacharach > said, ten years from now? "I've got the wedding bell blues." > > ANGER. There's a large statue of the Great God Beelzebub in my studio on > Polk Street. Hide in it. I'll wait here and throw them off the track. > > RIVERA. You are a good man under layers of lurid homosexual vice. > > ANGER. I'm in no mood for compliments, I think. > > What do ordinary people, who aren't writers, do - why then do they have > sex? Have they similar goals I don't know about? Are they a less > result-driven species than I? Why bother with it unless it can be > problematized? It's unlikely that many of these "ordinary people" will > bother having read this symposium this far, but if indeed you are one of > them could you get back to me with your answers at "dbkk@sirius.com"? If > there is any writing on your body send replies by mail, as you form a third > category outside of my dichtotomy. I've painted myself into a corner - but > isn't that corner the direction towards which one's body hourly moves > without even giving one's sex a courtesy call? The fourth category of > people, those who write but not "about" any particular subject. Who work in > language the way Jackson Pollock worked in paint. Poets. Sianne Ngai > writes, "Only the poet who recognizes the negative agency of exasperated > utterances, their ability to not-express or not-articulate, is able to > paradoxically express her own inexpressiveness and give form to what is > formless." My hand closes around the strap of the subway train, > K-Ingleside, L-Taraval, whatever, I stiffen up as the flesh moves in. The > car stops. Doors open, fresh air at my ankles. Then finally Bruce Conner, > happily recovered in the past few years and looking hardy, here he comes, > spring in his step . . . infinitely fuckable. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 22:19:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Colloquium 3.6: Lip Sync - Ron Silliman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Patrick Herron wrote >"Sex on the internet is a masturbatory means of disengagement." Can be. But the internet is also where many people meet. Some are looking for sex, some are looking for lovers, friends, husbands and wives. It is actually a pretty good way to meet people if you share the same literacy or comparable literacies. In such case, the object may (or may not) still be sex, but is not necessarily a masturbatory means of disengagement. It may be a masturbatory means of engagement or a non-masturbatory means of engagement or the other two permutations also. You might say that you were speaking not of such aspects of sex on the internet but of viewing imagery or multimedia. But it is possible for someone seeking engagement, ultimately, to fantasize about it via imagery or multimedia or sound or any other stimulus. Some reports I've heard suggest we tend to think about sex quite a lot, at least once per second, and that sounds about right to me; we are sexual beings, individuals engaged and disengaged; sex is not just the wild thang but part of our continual engagement and disengagement, part of how we think, part of how we are. I imagine that most sexual orientations find their representations and correspondents on the net. There is an anonymity possible on the net that is good for fantasy and, yes, for predators. Sex on the internet can surely be a masturbatory means of disengagement, as you say, but I just wanted to point out that, quite interestingly, I think, it's much wider than that. It is a network not simply of machines but of people who exchange email (which can be very sexy), chat, voice chat and video chat, exchange files (who knows of what?), read each other's works, exchange phone numbers and saliva. Much wider than a bulletin board. In a sense, the strength of the sexual charge across the wires of the internet reflects the media/um's strength to convey our humanity, which is intrinsically sexual. This is great news for artists who seek to internalize the media/um and do compelling work in it. Regards, Jim Andrews http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:27:40 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jacques Debrot Subject: the body (not jesse ventura) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i have to admit, I haven't had the stamina to read more than a couple of the submissions to last weekend's group grope before feeling like someone at an orgy who suddenly realizes that all he really wanted was a warm hug. --Jacques ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 10:05:56 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Zauhar Subject: Re: Poetic Recipes from the Cutting Edge In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" and didn't ronald johnson of ARK and BOOK OF THE GREEN MAN non-fame publish a couple of cookbooks? >Subsubpoetics >> >>Why is there no poetry cookbook? >> >>Neidecker has one, it was a chap from overlook >>about thanksgiving & food prep >>released in 82 >> >>Be well >> >>David Baratier, Editor > >Margaret Atwood, as one might have expected, edited one that was >published in 1987. > >gb >-- >George Bowering >Fax 604-266-9000 David Zauhar 632 Cribbs Street Greensburg PA 15601 724/834-8461 "They said we was nowhere Actually we are beautifully embalmed in Pennsylvania" --Philip Whalen, "Chanson d'Outre Tombe" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 14:09:18 -0500 Reply-To: vivo@uic.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Glomski Subject: Other Readings, Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit UIC READING SERIES, FALL 2000 presents poetry readings by **JOSHUA CLOVER** & **JEFF CLARK** & **JENNIFER MOXLEY** Thursday, October 12 @ 12:30 p.m. Thursday, October 26 @ 12:30 p.m. Both readings held at Rathskellar, Student Residence and Commons, 700 S. Halsted +++ Admission is free Joshua Clover is the author of Madonna anno domini. Jeff Clark is the author of The Little Door Slides Back. Jennifer Moxley is the author of Imagination Verses. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 14:28:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Piuma Subject: flim is four is looking for... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hallo. flim, a somewhat literary journal, is turning four this month. In celebration, we're looking for pieces that somehow relate to the number four, or have four elements, or whatever. Anything with a vague and tenuous connection to the number four. Even work without such a connection will be considered. Please send work along to editor@flim.com And read flim at http://www.flim.com Thanks. -- Chris Piuma, etc. Editor, flim http://www.flim.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:38:38 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Cayley Subject: p0es1s - International Digital Poetry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable p0es1s International Digital Poetry Kunsttempel Kassel (Germany) Oct. 6 - Nov. 5, 2000 Holopoetry by Eduardo Kac (Chicago), digital video poems by Ernesto de Melo e Castro (Sao Paulo) and Patrick-Henri Burgaud (Arnhem, NL), "Bodybuilding" - an interactive installation by Frank Fietzek (Hamburg), "Connex I/O - installation by Sascha Pogacar & Matze Schmidt (Kassel), Ascii-Art by Walter van der Cruijsen & Thomax Kaulmann (Ascii-Art-Ensemble, Berlin), and online projects (www. p0es1s.com, English version forthcoming) by: Mark Amerika (Boulder, Col.), Giselle Beiguelman (Sao Paulo), Susanne Berkenheger (Muenchen), Simon Biggs (London), Bastian Boettcher (Weimar), Augsto de Campos (Sao Paulo), Florian Cramer (Berlin), Exonemo (Kensuke Sembo und Yae Akaiva, Tokyo), Takaumi Furuhashi (Saitama, JP), Guido Grigat (Hamburg), Judd Morissey u. Lori Talley (Boulder, Col.), Jim Rosenberg (Denver, Col.), Christa Sommerer & Laurent Mignonneau (Tokyo, Kyoto), Andre Vallias (Rio de Janeiro). Place Kunsttempel Kassel, Friedrich-Ebert-Str. 177, D-34119 Kassel, Germany Open: Thu - Sat, 6:00 - 22:00 pm; Son, 3:00 - 7:00 pm Info: x49-561-24304; info@brueckner-kuehner.de; internet: www.p0es1s.com Opening =46ri, Oct. 6, 2000, 8:00 pm, with a discussion between Friedrich W. Block (Kassel), Christiane Heibach (Erfurt) and Roberto Simanowski (Berlin), and a performance by Pogacar & Schmidt. Catalogue A catalogue (50 pages, German/English), edited by Friedrich W. Block, is forthcoming from Winfried Jenior Verlag, Kassel (jenior@aol.com), ISBN 3-934377-92-0, DM 12,-. Organization =20 "p0es1s" is curated by Friedrich W. Block in collaboration with Andre Vallias, and is organized in Kassel by "Stiftung Brueckner-Kuehner" and "Kunst- & Literaturverein Kassel". Symposion: "1. Forum " Linked to the exhibition, the Universities of Kassel and Erfurt are organizing the "1. Forum " in Kassel. 20 experts from art and science will discuss the possibilities and conditions of literature in and with the hypermedia (curated by Friedrich W. Block, Christiane Heibach and Karin Wenz). Info: www.netzaesthetik.de Work in Progress "p0es1s" is a dynamic and virtual site of digital poetry. It consists of exhibitions, discursive offers and recently of a website (www.p0es1s.com). The website was launched in Munich during the "Schrift und Bild in Bewegung" festival, spring 2000. In 1992 we (mainly responsible was Andr=E9 Vallias) already showed one of the first exhibitions of digital poetry. The presentation took place in Annaberg-Buchholz, the residence of Carlfriedrich Claus, and it was attended by artists like Augusto de Campos, Eduardo Kac, Richard Kostelanetz, Jim Rosenberg and others - some of them who are again taking part. "p0es1s" presents advanced possibilities to expand poetry to the field of multimedia and the internet: hybrid texts between word, image, and sound, which can only be electronically produced, stored, distributed, and received. Symbolic worlds dissolve to electrons, converted into an impenetrable texture of numbers, connected with currents between input and output. Appearing as letters, numbers, lines, areas, forms, sounds, the usual perceivable surfaces always appear as something else: They are potentially different, temporary, liquid, and flowing. Here, digital poetry means creative, experimental, playful, or critical verbal and non-verbal art produced by means of programming, multimedia, animation, interactivity, and net communication. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 21:53:46 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: DS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, If anyone knows of any readings in Manhatten between the 10th and 18th of November, could you please email me on dpsalmon@ihug.co.nz. Thanks, Dan Salmon ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 02:07:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: an appreciative reader In-Reply-To: <39DA2EDD.77CF4DE1@uic.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII this is just to say that i have found this list in the last month as provocative and interesting and intriguing and innumerable adjectives connoting and denoting all manner of delight as i have ever have. thank you, all. nice to know people are thinking out there. (and of course the colloquium is overwhelming, but we must say with Blake, "Enough or Too Much") -- Robert Corbett "I will discuss perfidy with scholars as rcor@u.washington.edu as if spurning kisses, I will sip Department of English the marble marrow of empire. I want sugar University of Washington but I shall never wear shame and if you call that sophistry then what is Love" - Lisa Robertson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 00:19:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: NYC Reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This came to the administrative account. - t. shaner --On Thursday, October 05, 2000, 10:03 AM +0000 "Matthea Harvey" wrote: " " NEW YORK CITY READING! " " The editors of AMERICAN LETTERS &COMMENTARY " " Anna Rabinowitz (Editor) " Eric Darton (Fiction Editor) " Matthea Harvey (Managing Editor) " " invite you to celebrate the publication of ISSUE # 12 with readings by: " " SUSAN WHEELER " SARAH MANGUSO " BRUCE BENDERSON " CHRISTOPHER KELVIN JAMES " " WHEN: October 11, 2000 6-8 pm " WHERE: Teachers & Writers Collaborative " 5 Union Square West " " The reading will be followed by a reception. Please come! " $6 admission, $9 included the magazine. " " Contact: mattheaharvey@hotmail.com " " " " _________________________________________________________________________ " Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. " " Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at " http://profiles.msn.com. " ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:48:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Mayhew Subject: A poet in the narrow sense (was Adventures in Poultry) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit "The Mallarme issue is pretty familiar to all of us, but Derrida is a philosopher, not a poet in the narrow sense. It just makes more sense to me that Mallarme is Derridian than the other way around, in the way that Shakespeare was Freudian (according to Jones) and not the other way around." So wrote Bill Austin. This is striking to me, because it implies a certain privilege of theoretical discourse over poetic discourse, the latter conceived of here as "narrow." It makes just as much sense to me to reverse the terms. Of course Derrida is Mallarmean, just as he is Heideggerian or Freudian. It is also obvious, to me, that Freud was more Shakesperian at least as much as vice-versa. Is Sophocles Aristotelian? He seems so if we read retrospectively, but my inclination would be to call Aristotle Sophoclean. Of course, there's no right answer here. What struck me was simply how opposite my own perspective is to that of those who privilege theory (philosophy) over poetry in this way. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:52:00 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: Colloquium 3.6: Lip Sync - Ron Silliman In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In response to Jim Andrews: et can be a means to more fleshy encounters, true, but as an end in itself it is onanistic, disengaging, isolating. when on the internet you are alone. if you are alone in a room and you call a friend, are you not still alone? you might no longer be lonely, but you're still alone. also people have this naive dream of the internet, as some means for freedom. well, a news quiz for you? what organization started the internet? what were the purposes of the new means of communications? how many creations of the above organization reach the public sphere? how much of the current internet is about selling/marketing? how much of the web was it 5 years ago? how much of the current internet is surveilled? how many organizations compete for control of the addressing system of the WWW? how is such a surveilled environment of communications. sex is great, don't get me wrong. masturbation is great too. and i'm all for fantasy. but people can suffer from not having any human touch from others, and i'm seeing it with people frequently on the internet. so many addicts. this loss of human contact, of the physical presence of others, is a clear cost of the internet. the technology's insistence on individuation/divide and conquer can easily leave us lonely, unorganized, exploitable. the cost of the internet is that people begin to make love to machines, not other people. but then again, i'm a kook who believes in orgonomy. silly me. all media blocks communication. air, voice, print, text, paint, internet, whatever. and each one seems to block more information than the last. touch is as close as we get to whatever it is that's being shared. heck, we cannot even know what of the original message remains form the start. instead we are burdened to create things that the message recipient is compelled to reinvent. people should be wary of the pitfalls of anything. i am just so amazed that people do not know the price of the internet. everything comes at a price, and yet so many internet people seem to have some sort of religious zeal about the whole thing, about how it is all good and no bad. as if it were some purely democratic creation, when in fact it is the child of advanced defense research projects. my point is to alert people to these pitfalls. no one saying the internet is pure evil. but it does have its price. who said sex without love is really good exercise? perhaps it's affection I am speaking about; I am reminded of Jacques' quote yesterday. Besides, in my experience sex without affection has never had quite the same charging affect on me as sex with affection. the internet does not seem to be able to create that charge and it at best extremely poor at carrying that very spark across any wire. it seems no media except flesh can transfer that effectively. I use the internet in all of those means you describe, Jim. As a means of document and information exchange it is wonderful. But the internet started only partially as that, a means of information exchange, and it becomes more and more a means of information capture. Of a means for separating people form each other, from their money. It's panoptic. I also agree it's a great place to meet people with similar interests. Just wishing that people be wary of the costs for society as well as the benefits. but then, maybe society is already pretty individuated to such a rotten extreme that the sexual signals across the internet seem unrivalled for many. I just think the internet is but one of many means of engagement and communication. text. film. voice and paralinguistic gesture. touch. some means have signals that are more enriched and require more direct human space-sharing than others. i am all into art, web art, music, writing, photography, film. there is a cost to any art, to any medium, including the internet. it IS a means of onanistic individuation. thank you jim for your thoughtful response. Patrick http://proximate.org/ -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Jim Andrews Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 1:19 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Colloquium 3.6: Lip Sync - Ron Silliman >Patrick Herron wrote >"Sex on the internet is a masturbatory means of disengagement." Can be. But the internet is also where many people meet. Some are looking for sex, some are looking for lovers, friends, husbands and wives. It is actually a pretty good way to meet people if you share the same literacy or comparable literacies. In such case, the object may (or may not) still be sex, but is not necessarily a masturbatory means of disengagement. It may be a masturbatory means of engagement or a non-masturbatory means of engagement or the other two permutations also. You might say that you were speaking not of such aspects of sex on the internet but of viewing imagery or multimedia. But it is possible for someone seeking engagement, ultimately, to fantasize about it via imagery or multimedia or sound or any other stimulus. Some reports I've heard suggest we tend to think about sex quite a lot, at least once per second, and that sounds about right to me; we are sexual beings, individuals engaged and disengaged; sex is not just the wild thang but part of our continual engagement and disengagement, part of how we think, part of how we are. I imagine that most sexual orientations find their representations and correspondents on the net. There is an anonymity possible on the net that is good for fantasy and, yes, for predators. Sex on the internet can surely be a masturbatory means of disengagement, as you say, but I just wanted to point out that, quite interestingly, I think, it's much wider than that. It is a network not simply of machines but of people who exchange email (which can be very sexy), chat, voice chat and video chat, exchange files (who knows of what?), read each other's works, exchange phone numbers and saliva. Much wider than a bulletin board. In a sense, the strength of the sexual charge across the wires of the internet reflects the media/um's strength to convey our humanity, which is intrinsically sexual. This is great news for artists who seek to internalize the media/um and do compelling work in it. Regards, Jim Andrews http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:53:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Orange Subject: email address for marshall reese? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII does anyone have an email address for marshall reese? pls backchannel, and thanks... t. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:57:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael amberwind Subject: Re: Le Big Mac and Pulp Free Friction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii i too confess i find this sort of intercourse less than enlightening neither The Kinsey Report nor The Joy of Sex leave me w/ much of a taste to fuck This sort of thing doesn't make me want to write seems harmless enough tho keeps the theorists busy so they don't do anything truly DANGEROUS like writing poetry or falling in love it seems the french food leads to a kind of anemia of sense easier to speak of "constructed social energies" than "the first time I ever touched a bra clasp" this was no orgy tho this was a barbecue catered by McDonalds pass me that orange crap just don't call it juice >>> Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:27:40 EDT >>> From: Jacques Debrot >>>> Subject: the body (not jesse ventura) i have to admit, I haven't had the stamina to read more than a couple of the submissions to last weekend's group grope before feeling like someone at an orgy who suddenly realizes that all he really wanted was a warm hug. --Jacques __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 00:24:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Small Press Traffic auction slash soiree etc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the admin account. - t. shaner --On Monday, October 02, 2000, 11:21 PM -0700 "Kevin Killian" wrote: " For you in San Francisco (and elsewhere) more details about our " auction and soiree this Saturday. If any of you would like to help " us out, please call me at (415) 981-8070. We need some helpers just " to pitch in and make things go with a bang. " " SMALL PRESS TRAFFIC " at CCAC (California College of Arts and Crafts) " 1111 EIGHTH STREET SAN FRANCISCO (at 16th at Wisconsin) " 6th Annual Literary Auction & Soiree " Saturday, October 7, 2000 from 4-7 p.m. $10.00 " " 4:00 p.m. Food, Music, Cash Bar, Entertainment, Welcome, Open " House, Auction Preview. The party continues right up until 7. " " 5:00 p.m. Auction of Literary Manuscripts and Memorabilia, " including signed books, manuscript pages, odds and ends, unusual and " bizarre items by Kenneth Anger, Dario Argento, Daisy Ashford, " Margaret Atwood, two Charles Bernsteins (the film composer and the US " poet in a unique collaboration), the stars of The Blair Witch " Project, Nicole Brossard, Clark Coolidge, David Cronenberg, Beverly " Dahlen and Robert Duncan, Atom Egoyan, Ralph Ellison, William " Everson, the poets of "Expanding the Repertoire" (SPT's spring 2000 " conference of experimental African-American poetry), Pam Grier, " Barbara Guest (unpublished manuscript), Thom Gunn, Ken Kesey, John Le " Carre, Harper Lee (the opening of "To Kill a Mockingbird), Amy " Lowell, David Mamet, Bernadette Mayer, James Merrill, Harriet Monroe " (grisly memento mori by the founder of Poetry Chicago), the family of " George Oppen, John Cowper Powys, Carl Rakosi, Dorothy Richardson, " James Schuyler (Christmas card 1981 to Ted Berrigan), Edith Sitwell, " Gary Snyder, W D Snodgrass, Garry Trudeau, seven US Poets Laureate in " one clump, Edmund White, John Wieners/Edie Adams/Amiri Baraka in an " unusual threesome, John Woo, Beatrice Wood (signed copy of Shirley " MacLaine's autobiography), Jay Wright and Yevgeny Yevtuschenko. If " you'd like a complete catalogue e-mail me, Kevin, at dbkk@sirius.com " and I'll send it to you via the e-mail. " " 6:15 My original play "Cut" directed by me, with a cast of local " poets, painters and artists including Taylor Brady, Wayne Smith, " Jocelyn Saidenberg, Marisa Hernandez, Rex Ray, Yedda Morrison, " Margaret Crane, Karla Milosevich, Craig Goodman, Norma Cole, Rupert " Adley, Tanya Hollis and Kota Ezawa. This is the life of Alfred " Hitchcock that Robin Wood and Donald Spoto didn't tell you about! " " 7:00 Raffle drawing of unique and irreplaceable raffle offerings. " Conclusion of soiree. This has been the Fun Olympics, celebrating " Small Press Traffic's 26th year of continuous public service and " celebrating our move to a sumptuous new location at CCAC (don't go to " New College by mistake). So, it's kind of like an open house, only " it costs ten dollars. And, we have a new director, Elizabeth " Treadwell Jackson. Thanks everyone. " " -- Kevin Killian <--- hope to see you all there!!! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:05:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Colloq Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all, Very happy to be reading the big Body Sex Writing deal and agree with Rachel L. that the narrativity site is a great place to go for further material. I hope along with Chris A. that this gets conversations rolling, both on and off the list. Been way too busy with new work to speak here much lately (& perhaps all are thrilled by that), but did want to publicly thank Dodie and Chris for getting this important ball (!) rolling. And Jacques, if you want a warm hug, we all know by now this list ain't the spot. Sending you one anyhoo, ETJ ___________________________________________ Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page2.html ___________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:13:23 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Double Helix Subject: DH Newsletter 05/10/00 - 19/10/00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Appologies for cross postings.=20 Double Helix is a licensed arts and performance space in the heart of = the Fortitude Valley entertainment precinct in Brisbane, Australia. Our = program includes - film screenings, dj's, bands, dance, theatre, = exhibitions with a focus on art and technology, performance art and = spectacle. We currently operate as a collective of artists who have = experience in film production, visual art, theatre, music and = interactive visual systems. If you have projects you would like to stage = or you would like to be included in our program please contact us. 84 Alfred St. Fortitude Valley, Brisbane, Australia 4005. - P.O.Box 172, = Redhill, 4059. Tel + 61 7 3852 4499 Fax + 61 7 3369 2449 E-mail = dhelix@netspace.net.au=20 WHAT'S ON AT DOUBLE HELIX 05/10/00 - 19/10/00 Thursday 05/10/00=20 OMO FREE ENTRY - 8.30pm start Our regular Thursday queer and alternative disco masterminded by The = Love Machine Corporation with artistic director David Clark at the helm = brings you dj's Shame & Dud and their friends. OMO regularly features = local and interstate performers and includes physical theatre, dance, = cabaret, performance art and guest bands tied into the program.. Friday 06/10/00 EXHIBITION OPENING - FREE ENTRY - 6pm till 9pm - exhibition continues = until Thursday 19/10/00 Gallery 1 & 2 - Fa(u)st Woman=20 K A Watson - Digitally enhanced plan prints Gallery 3 - Manga vs. Mecha Stuart Gollan - Bio-mechanical sculptures and aerosol art Craig Spencer - Aerosol art and sci-fi acrylic canvases Guest Entertainment - breaking, DJ=92s, rappers & open mic. DAYTONA - indie pop, garage, stoner & stadium rock disco every Friday = FREE ENTRY - 9pm till late =91Let there be light!=92 Double Helix presents Daytona, a disco like no = other - focussing on all things loud and fast. If you like your music = from the garage, from the bong and from the stadium then put on your = helmets and fasten your seatbelts as racing begins tonight from 9pm till = 3am. =91Let your ears taste honey, let the soul be saved, let there be = rock.=92 Free drink of schnapps with presentation of ticket from = Powderfinger gig. Look out for feature bands coming up in the next few weeks! Saturday 07/10/00 DAYTONA - Rock=92n=92Roll, indie pop, garage, stoner & stadium rock = disco FREE ENTRY - 9pm till late Free drink of schnapps with presentation of ticket from Powderfinger gig = or Triple Z Market Day. Sunday 08/10/00 THE MILK BAR - FREE ENTRY - 5pm till late every Sunday with AV DJ Axel. The Milk Bar....Intended to inspire and =91MILK=92 the artistic mind, = through allowing one to unwind. The Milk Bar features soundscapes and = visuals, animation, movies and installations as well as performances and = dance. The Milk Bar is laid back and offers inobtrusive Sunday sounds = and visuals to stimulate imaginative discussions and thoughts. The Milk = Bar is not just a venue where artists perform - it is space where = artists can meet other artists and let the creative milk flow. The Milk = Bar is an empty cup, ready to be filled by the fluid energies of = creation. The Milk Bar is interested in promoting local talent and is = seeking local artists.. Tuesday 10/10/00 The Return of the Revenge of it Came From Somewhere Else - 7pm start & = $5 cover charge The final gripping installment of =91The Return of the Revenge of it = Came From Somewhere Else=92. Don=92t miss this improvisation mayhem with = the Six of the Best crew plus film screening. Thursday 12/10/00 OMO Friday 13/10/00 DAYTONA Saturday 14/10/00 Local Bands - 8pm till 3am - $6/$5 cover charge - drink specials Giants of Science, Lewis, Dollarbar, Seaplane, The Shadow Puppets and = The B-Sides with support from DJ Anarchy. Sunday 15/10/00 THE MILK BAR Wednesday 18/10/00 Local Bands - 8pm till late - small cover charge Jazz grooves and soundscapes with Blue Wine, Lost Domain and Uko Wave Thursday 19/10/00 SELECTED FINGERS - 6pm till 9pm - FREE Welcome to the world of Selected Fingers. DJ Pete and crew launch their = new weekly exploration of jazz, ambient and world music rarities from = past to present. Disco with a difference for discerning musophiles who = aren=92t scared to ask =91 what was that track?=92 OMO - 9pm till 3am - FREE STAY TUNED FOR OUR NEXT EXHIBITION OPENING ON FRIDAY 20/10/00, LOOPS, = CYBERTRIBE, SPACE JUNK CD LAUNCH, TRASH VIDEO=92S 4ZZZ 25TH ANNIVERSARY = BRISBAND VIDEO CLIPS AND EXHIBITION EXTRAVAGANZA, Qld. COLLEGE OF ART = ANIMATION GRADUATES SCREENING WITH THE GIANTS OF SCIENCE, INSECTICIDE, = KAPOW WITH BACKBONE YOUTH ARTS AND SUBMERSION PLUS MUCH MUCH MORE! To unsubscribe please enter 'unsubscribe' in the 'subject' field and = 'reply to author'. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:14:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Elizabeth Treadwell heads east to read Comments: cc: Realpo@listbot.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, when sending to lists I realize this may better be titled "shameless self promo" but in any case hope to see some of you again and see some of you in the flesh for the first time on my near forays, Elizabeth ____________________________________________________________ ELIZABETH TREADWELL=92s=20 first readings east of the Sierra Nevada=20 NYC Oct. 16, 2000 Buffalo Oct. 20, 2000 New Orleans Apr. 5, 2000 Elizabeth Treadwell=92s art offers irresistible engagement with the intersections of poetry and fiction, culture and intimacy, revolution and description. =20 =97Carol Mirakove =20 =20 Elizabeth Treadwell is young, she's poetic, and she kicks some serious ass! = =20 =97Quentin Tarantino =20 The Poetry Project=20 St Mark's Church in the Bowery 131 East 10th St. (at 2nd Ave.), Manhattan 8 pm. $7; $4 students; $3 members Monday, October 16, 2000=20 with Betsy Andrews =20 New York City =20 =97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=20 Hodge Street Series=20 Friday, October 20, 2000 =20 with Arielle Greenberg=20 Buffalo =20 =97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=20 Lit City Series=20 Thursday, April 5, 2001=20 with Rae Armantrout=20 New Orleans=20 more info: http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page2 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:19:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: PS: re Elizabeth Treadwell heads east to read Comments: cc: Realpo@listbot.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" And oops, of course my April reading in the fabled and fabulous city of New Orleans with the fabled and fabulous Rae Armantrout will occur in 2001, not 2000. Looking forward to the city and state of NY in just a coupla weeks, E. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:44:05 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Thompson Subject: Re: Jakobson on Metonymy & Metaphor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/4/00 9:03:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ writes: > George. I havent read any of the philosophers such as Jacobson. I've read > bits and pieces of Foucault and one sentence from a book by Derrida. Most of > my knowledge of these guys is from reading lit crit. but your examples sound > interesting. Ididnt think much of A.K. And I fell asleep during the > Godfather because I couldnt understand it. My ex enjoyed it. But I find that > I can never follow dialogue in movies (especially when its an Am one and > blokes like Brando mumble too much.The English enunciate well so I can > sometimes understand English movies.)I like the Three Stooges tho and > Lawrence of Arabia. But its tragic that you missed my brilliant piece of > "Dickensian" writing.(Abou a guy clled "Wing Nut" which I gave as an example > of Metonomy according to the Dict.) Forget about Jakobson and all those > French guys. Read my poem The Red. Any way, what's the point of reading a > big book just to have one exciting thing happen?Richard Taylor. Look, Richard, I teach at an art school. I encounter lazy inarticulate uninformed people all the time. People with chutzpah like yours. I try to be kind to them. So I will try to be kind to you. You are funny. Best, George Thompson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:15:36 -0500 Reply-To: vivo@uic.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Glomski Subject: readings a Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joshua Clover will read on Thursday, October 12 at 12:30 p.m.. Jennifer Moxley and Jeff Clark on Thursday, October 26 at 12:30 p.m. Both readings free at University of Illinois, Chicago. Rathskellar. 700 South Halsted. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 00:49:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: What Jakobson got wrong about metalanguage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >George. This was an interesting post. Ii've written something longer re this. But, briefly, I concurr overall. But I think you should expand on your claim the poetry and metalanguage are entirely different. I think, from what you have said that there are regions of intersection of metalinguistics to Linguistics hence as poetry to language, then poetry to metalanguage. Somehow this could be put into some kind of syllogistic argument. (Only to be brilliantly refuted by a 20 year old Philosophy Phd!) Thanks for your interesting post. Yours mightanowareadasomaromanajacobsonallyoneofathesedaysically, Richard. >From: George Thompson >Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 16:53:18 EDT >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: What Jakobson got wrong about metalanguage > >While the List silently ponders its bodies and sexes, I will preoccupy >myself, mentally and bodily and wordily too, with a reply to Harold Teichman, >about what Jakobson got right about metalanguage. > >HT and I have had a brief conversation about Jakobson offlist, and it became >clear, I think to both of us, that our disagreements can be attributed to the >difference in our perspectives. As HT nicely demonstrates in his post, he is >a philosopher interested in philosophy, and, in this thread, in metalanguage >as it is used by the likes of Tarski. HT shows us how the term is used in >philosophy and formal logic. Fine. > >But Jakobson is a linguist and in my view should be judged as a linguist. >His use of the term 'metalanguage' in linguistics is widely accepted by >linguists [should I trot out a bunch of refs, or will you all trust me on >this?]. And it has been very fruitful. The point is that J is not looking >at the semantics of formal logic. He is looking at a type of linguistic >behavior that can be identified not only in the behavior of trained linguists >[never mind trained philosophers] but also in the behavior of ordinary >untrained people, like ordinary and even language poets. > >Now, what is metalinguistic behavior? It is exactly what J says it is: it is >the use of one language [the meta-l] to talk about another language [the >object-l]; it can also be seen in the use of a language to talk about that >very language: English to talk about English, etc. 2500 years ago, the >Sanskrit grammarians invented a rigorous metalanguage to talk about Sanskrit: >it consisted of some Sanskrit words, and Skt syntax, morphology, and >phonology, etc., but with the addition of a set of metalinguistic [auditory, >non-visual] markers that was invented for the sake of clarity and conciseness >-- this was still a largely oral, pre-lierate culture. Well, I won't go into >how much more impressed I am by them than by, say, Wittgenstein. That's a >sidetrack. > >Jakobson has taught us to see metalanguage in everyday discourse. Look, it >is prominent in the language behavior of children, in fact much more >prominent in them than in most adults [except for the occasional eccentrics >like poets and other lovers of words]. Look at the pre-linguistic babble of >your children in their cribs. The ba-ba-ba, ma-ma-ma stuff. Well, it is on >one level clear exploratory phonology. But it is also a metalinguistic >exploration of the range of the meaningful sound-units [phonemes] of the >speech-community that the child finds herself surrounded by, immersed in. >Look at your toddlers. Look at all of the little word-substitutions that >they busy themselves with: that is metalanguage at play. A lot of what used >to pass as "grammar" in school was really a rudimentary form of >metalinguistic analysis of the language that teachers are trying still to get >us to master. Look at the knock-knock jokes and 'who am I?' riddles that >your kids like to play. Their steady popularity is a measure of the >metalinguistic interests of children. > >Metalanguage is in constant operation in foreign language classes that you >encourage your kids to take. To a great extent, I view my own college career >as nothing but a series of new metalinguistic exercises. Etc. etc. etc. > >Kids are more preoccupied with metalinguistic games etc. than their parents >precisely because they are trying to come to grips with that code that HT >doubts exists. Well, most adults have stopped thinking about the code, and >now they doubt that it exists, because they have internalized it and it >operates in them without any assistence from them whatsoever. It is all >perfectly 'natural' until something comes along to disrupt its smooth >unconscious operation. I would guess that most of us on this list are also, >like the kids, intensely interested in the disruptions of that unconscious >operation in us. I know that many of you are because I have seen it in your >writing. > >Well, what about poetry and metalanguage? Two entirely different operations. >I don't want to confuse the two. But poetics is a sub-branch of >metalinguistics from my point of view. > >I have written papers on the verbal contests, riddle contests and poetic >bragging contests, of old Vedic poetry. It is clear that in most poetic >traditions of the world, the person who gravitates toward poetry also >gravitates toward metalanguage, as well as what I would call >proto-linguistics. This has to do with the material that they work with, >their words, of course. > >I read language poetry as a kind of poetry that is preoccupied with >metalanguage. But then again a lot of other poetry is preoccupied in that >too. Of course, I've gotten all of this into my head from thinking about J's >take on metalanguage for a very long time. > >Well, I've gone on too long. > >Perhaps Jonathan and Harold and I can come to see alike on this. > >George Thompson > >[p.s. Here's an example of metalinguistic humor that I found in a book by >Steven Pinker: > >A woman gets into a taxi in Boston's Logan airport and asks the driver, "Can >you take me someplace where I can get scrod?" He says, "Gee, that's the >first time I've heard it in the pluperfect subjunctive." See, even cab >drivers do it!] > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 23:54:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: Bad Translations, Bad Sonnets and the Very Most Best of American Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit there is a interesting book on translation by Rosanna Warren, "The Art of Translation" (Northeastern University Press) ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael amberwind" To: Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2000 3:26 PM Subject: Re: Bad Translations, Bad Sonnets and the Very Most Best of American Poetry > ok so it isn't a sonnet (can't believe no one on > a poetics list pointed this out - is it > considered bad form, a little like pointing out > someone's acne at a party in a a very loud and > obvious manner) but i really did intend to write > a sonnet in something approaching good ol' trusty > iambic pentameter in 14 lines - there is > something that undermines all intentions, it > seems > > didn't Bly write a book on translating poetry? is > it still in print? > > and speaking of Bly, is there a copy anwhere on > the net of his introduction to the Best of > American Poetry 2000? i am almost too afrraid to > see what poems he has chosen - am certain at > least on of the following words is in every poem > > light > dust > father > son > grief > Gnostic > air > field > tree > > or any other monosyllabic word that will leap > leap leap into our subconscious and make us wise > > no anxiety of influence there - nope, not a jot i > dare say > > > > >>>i couldn't find 20 PhDs who were willing to > work > for free - so just used an online translator w/ > one of my simpler poems to do the switch - > i'm sure i am not the first person to do this, > but the results are interesting, if only to amuse > and show the drawbacks of computer translations > > [sonnet] > > Swords of green slice the grid where white gulls > sit > In the wake of Autumn rain, the goalposts > Bookend my walk - the curved thousands - tender > Beaks devour bright, new fall rain, slow drops. > Alone is the word of a leaky vessel. > It spreads among the scattered straws of road. > So light as to hover over hemlock, > And with a gardener's hand, the air I tend. > > Undelivered, I return to silence, > Chanting without tongue unformed miles. > > Épées de part verte la grille où les gulls blancs > se reposent à la suite de la pluie d'automne, les > goalposts Bookend ma promenade - les milliers > incurvés - devour tendre de becs lumineux, > ouvelle pluie de chute, baisses lentes. Seul est > le mot d'un navire perméable. Il écarte parmi les > pailles > dispersées de la route. Allumez ainsi quant au > vol plané au-dessus du hemlock, et avec la main > d'un jardinier, l'air que je tends. Non délivré, > je reviens au silence, chantant sans langue > unformed > des milles. > > Swords of green share the grid where the white > gulls rest > Following the rain of autumn, the goalposts > Bookend my walk - curved thousands -devour > To tighten luminous nozzles, new rain of fall, > slow falls. > > Only is the word of a permeable ship. > It draws aside among the dispersed straws of the > road. > Light thus as for the gliding flight above the > hemlock, > And with the hand of a gardener, the air which I > tighten. > > Not delivered, I return to silence, > Singing without language unformed miles. > *************************************** > I can't really argue with the first line. Could > be better than what I wrote. > I find "to tighten luminuos nozzles" and > "permeable ship" bizarre and probably onanistic. > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 00:14:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: New at Word Circuits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This came to the administrative account. - t. shaner --On Wednesday, October 04, 2000, 8:58 PM -0700 "Robert Kendall" wrote: " [Please distribute this announcement] " " " ----------------------------- " NEW AT WORD CIRCUITS " http://www.wordcircuits.com " ----------------------------- " " " HTLIT COLUMN " ""Playing the Numbers: " M.D. Coverley's Fibonacci=92s Daughter" " http://www.wordcircuits.com/comment/htlit_9.htm " Jane Yellowlees Douglas reviews Coverley's hyperfiction. " ""Hypertext: Foe to Print?" " http://www.wordcircuits.com/comment/htlit_8.htm " Robert Kendall discusses how hypertext and print prove to be more " compatible with one another than you might expect. " " (These two columns will also appear in print in the SIGWEB " Newsletter.) " " " THE CONNECTION SYSTEM " ""Toward an Organic Hypertext" " http://www.wordcircuits.com/connect/ht2000.htm " By Robert Kendall and Jean-Hugues R=E9ty. " A detailed discussion of how the Connection System can benefit " hypertext poetry and fiction on the Web with such features as " conditional links and history tracking. This paper (presented at " Hypertext 2000) also discusses the concepts of organic hypertext " and object-oriented literature, which underlie the system. " " Note: Instruction in using the Connection System is available " from the New School Online University through the course ""Advanced Hypertext Poetry and Fiction" taught entirely online by " Robert Kendall (Oct. 23 through Dec. 22, 2000). Details available " at http://wordcircuits.com/kendall/htclass-2.htm. " " " ----------------------------------------------------------------- " Robert Kendall " E-Mail: kendall@wordcircuits.com " Home Page: http://www.wordcircuits.com/kendall " ----------------------------------------------------------------- " Word Circuits (Hypertext/Cybertext Poetry and Fiction): " http://www.wordcircuits.com " Electronic Literature Directory " http://directory.eliterature.org " On-Line Class in Hypertext Poetry and Fiction (The New School): " http://www.wordcircuits.com/kendall/htclass.htm " ----------------------------------------------------------------- " ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 01:08:19 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: The Voice of Authority 1.0 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wrote: "Or maybe I was asleep, unwilling to accept how people are continually fed shit and go back for more." This is a clear sign of my not having enough sleep. Please excuse my apparent need for filing tedious empty & dumb assumptions, Dodie. I find I do not like the tenor or even much of the content of my post. Eck. Pride can really be thunderhead-silly. Patrick -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Patrick Herron Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 9:28 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: VOA: The Voice of Authority 1.0 VOA: Voice of Authority Colloquium 1.0 Patrick Herron Dearest POETICS reader, I love you. Yes, you. Only you. For many of you, subjugating your reader seems an ideal you have been encouraged to embrace throughout your development as writers. We are taught from grade school to do things like adopt the third person in voice, be fully descriptive/obsessively nominalist, & make the sentences as un-subjective sounding as possible, thereby giving more authority to your writing. Text is one technology to achieve such subjugation in a mass of people. the internet is just another. neither medium, however, NEEDS to remain a tool for the development of authority/subject relationships. only relatively recently in the history of the development of the human brain/mind has it become possible to move beyond the dominant/submissive mode of language. Language can and has for a long time functioned as a way to make people to submit to authority. but language can also now inform people that language itself can program them, and language can also be used to have the reader program the language (metaprogramming), thereby finally turning the tables on authority (deprogrammation). One such example: "But in my formative years, it was hard to find models that moved beyond objectification. Gay writing, on the other hand, gave me ... techniques for turning the tables and objectifying men. ... I saw how erotic writing could be more than just a description of sexual acts. It could create a new sexual relationship: the writer as top, the reader as bottom. " and "You don't have to do the deed for it to be real. " -- Dodie Bellamy, "The Queer Issue," _Village Voice_, June 21-27, 2000 Now Dodie is surely very articulate on sexuality. I share her general notion of "whatever it takes to get off." But I think there is a fundamental disconnect for her, illustrated in the above quotes, between issues of subjugation, sexuality, feminism, and writing. (I think I can speak of Dodie, since she seems to desire to tie her person into her writing.) Perhaps I can dispel her suggestions with two questions: === 1. What is feminist about dominating your reader? 2. How can you be sure that the deed and the tale of the deed are on the same plane of reality? === 1. Why not empower the reader instead by having the reader screw your text? The author subjugates the reader: this is the same thing the Langpo got up in arms about; the subjugation of the reader is something for the workshops, for the newspapers, for that gawdawful Voice Of Authority we are taught from day one to write in. In order to be "good" writers. Etc. etc. Allowing the reader to penetrate the text, and not vice-versa, seems to me to break with the dominance and punishment of masculinity, the nature that fascinates the masculine with war, suffering, punishment, brutality, death, that replaces sex with brutality, that replaces reproduction and absorption and life with murder and dissection and death? Objectification seems fairly masculine to me. This "new" relationship is not new; it is as old as language itself, as old as the oracles, the god voice, and the humans submit. The opposite is what is new: it is only as of relatively late in human history that humans have a possibility for not submitting to that god-voice nature of language, that language can be used in modes other than the command mode. What Dodie seems to support, at least transitively in the above quotes, is the very functional center of paternal power structures and unlateralized linguistic centers in the brain. Language can be a portal into a person's brain; that portal is frequently used to manipulate people like puppets. But it also can be a portal to deprogram that very possibility of manipulation, to empower things other than the strength of orders & linguistic gestures of authority. Oh, to give the reader the chance to invent the text as it is read! Masculinity, division, colonialization and authority have served humanity well, it could be argued. (I don't agree with that, but heck, for argument's sake....) But they seem now more to lay waste than to help humanity survive, and it is time for something other than violence and division in this epoch of man. Why fuck something when there can be fucking? 2. Being sure about the reality either of text, the understanding of the text, or the act of flesh fucking, seems to me a position only some deity, some being equipped with metaphysical glasses, can assume. I am suspect of anyone with an objective window on reality. We cannot ever be sure if we are truly arbiters or witnesses of reality. Period. This misconception of metaphysical insight is but one legacy of god-mind and the slow lateralization of linguistic functions in the brain. I have been working for a long time on addressing this very topic. Appropriately, I am using the internet, that most distal form of human interaction, that most egregiously dictatorial marketing tool, that most exalted of high panoptic weapons ever formed, in order to criticize authority, and to make an illustration of this topic in general. Yes, a web site. But it is no ordinary web site, yet it is. Heh. It seems I have to use the authority-voice in order to get away from authority. Funny how contradictory that sounds. But, criminy, how many of you are even barely curious about the http://proximate.org site? I can tell by my other posts on the subject that almost all of you are either unequipped to deal with this topic of linguistic domination and aesthetics or you are simply not curious about an uncommon position for evaluating authority, consciousness, and media. Perhaps I am failing or just a pedantic dullard. Or just some dumb kid. Heh. C'est la merde. Ahh, my server logs, plains of dust, such barren fields! Perhaps I should have gone for that PhD and learned to submit to footnotes and my place in intellectual civilization (re: underfoot). It seems so many people were asleep when reading Genet. How gestures form power. Or maybe I was asleep, unwilling to accept how people are continually fed shit and go back for more. Patrick Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org http://proximate.org/ getting close is what we're all about here! Unnnh! Trixie! Go Speed! Oh Speed! Here comes Speed Racer! You were wonderful Trixie. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 01:01:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the occurrence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII == the occurrence sometimes there's this THING when They intervene m y J\ @ ; M this can happen suddenly, at any moment, signals from * \Jthe Other - you $ ) might have to read among Them; this is a frequent occurrence hidden by software; this amount0 &b @ X 3 s to the present, appears within it; Y 6 0 I'd almost argue there's a truth to it; when signals go awry, when junk fills the very last of speech, when speech shudders forth in the midst of the Other - as if I were coming into the party, }F6^ into the pleasure of It - no longer standing on the sidelines... as writer, you j K can identify: It tends to _write Itself,_ d< h ?= as if there were community or community; but It doesn't listen, pays no attention.a ~| 3 , speaks unaccountably; It mightY E be called /Oracle, oracular; It sends Its own mis Fgn sives; no longer hole but intrusion; It wells up, emerges from beneath - lives in Its own time - carries out Its operations...S#] + == ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 03:01:55 -0400 Reply-To: dbuuck@sirius.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "dbuuck@sirius.com" Subject: 2 questions Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" 1. Is there anyone who might be able to point me towards an English translation of Cesaire's 1956 letter to Maurice Thore= z, wherein A.C. resigns from the French CP? 2. Anyone have address/email info for Tsunami? b/c fine, thanks - David Buuck ------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been posted from Mail2Web http://www.mail2web.com/ Web Hosting for $9.95 per month! Visit: http://www.yourhosting.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 09:19:12 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Thompson Subject: Re: metonymy: was Re: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/4/00 9:29:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, searls@UCLINK4.BERKELEY.EDU writes: [snip of my words] > > Now why, unless we grant the premise that Jakobson is infallible, would > something that's not metaphorical *need* to be metonymical?? There are only > two possibilities on God's green earth? The handbag is "significant" > because of its contact with A.K., it's "used as a fetish," but those aren't > enough? It has to be a metonym too, just because it's not a metaphor? > > (Ditto for your claim about the "metonymic" aspects of the thug's > cigarette. I agree that your other examples [Friday's footsteps, lock of > hair, #42, etc.] are metonyms.) > > I think, George, you've unintentionally shown that Jakobson's distinction > only makes sense if you make at least one of the terms so diffuse as to be > almost all-encompassing ("metonymy" = "being associated with") ("metaphor" > stays pretty specific, but that's because it's the politically bad pole, at > least in every post-Jakobsonian article I've seen). And if Jakobson meant > something that all-encompassing, I find it suspicious that he would try to > jargonize his point with a term that, pre-Jakobson, was quite specific. > > curmudgeonically, > Damion Searls > Forgive me, but I was discussing Jakobson's ideas in the context of what J actually said, and he has said a lot, about this distinction. He was contrasting two different modes of thinking, that is, modes of relating things. Recall some of the other distinctions that J made about these modes: paradigmatic relations, which are vertical, vs syntagmatic relations, which are horizontal As far as I can see, this also has been a productive distinction, the first operating on the basis of relation of substitution [what J called selection]; the second operating on the basis of a relation of combination. I don't have the time, and many of you don't need to hear it, but I think that I could make a case for this being a productive set of distinctions. Likewise, when J applies this set to an analysis of types of aphasia, again at least for me the analysis is illuminating, instructive -- that is, productive. I don't understand the problem that you and Jonathan Mayhew have with the cigarette in the ash tray as a metonym for the thug. Wouldn't you admit that the cigarette takes on significance because of the fact that the thug's lips have left their lip-marks on it? Metonymy is not a simple matter of random association. No, it is a matter of charged, meaningful association. Read my earlier post. I acknowledge that there is something metaphorical going on there too [as did Kasey Mohammad, by the way]. For you, J seems to have stretched the term 'metonymy' so far as to make it meaningless. But he hasn't stretched it quite that far. He didn't intend to imply that if it is not a metaphor it must be a metonym -- nor did I. He was contrasting two different modes of thought. If you want to throw away J's sense of the term because it offends your understaning of the traditional term, go ahead. But I think that you lose more than you gain by doing so. A few days ago, Jonathan offlist recommended an alternative to 'metonymy.' He offered up the term 'index' instead. Well, that too has been a productive term, and like Jonathan I use it. But what have we gained? How much of an improvement on J's binary distinction is Peirce's triad of the index, the icon, the symbol? Someone earlier mentioned Lakoff on metaphor. Well, speak about reductionism. For him it is all metaphor. I for one have found his model very productive, so much so that I am prepared to upgrade my old model. No, I am not fixated on J. But I'm not inclined to abandon his take on metonymy until something better comes along. If you want to show me something better, please do. Follow Pound then: make it new. I'm prepared to listen. So I'll stop talking. I'll listen. Best, George Thompson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 10:09:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r....waiting for serena and venus.. they threw their aces out there on opening nite of the 30th year of the POETRY PROJECT...handsome virile witty Paul Violi and Bob Creeley "the 'ol' man" who can still BRING it...to reign, & wage immortal war with wit... Good house but not packed, empty rafters, some new some old some older some tired faces..Violi threw first good curve poem about speeding and blib blip Josia Wedgewood's Wooden Leg...nice rythm good pace on the slider...20 mins and out...the last poem was SERIOUS...night/hair/love/water/neck....all the usual words in unusual places...hard to throw the hard stuff after so much junk...after the school of wit..dryden, congreve, frankie o'hara...the lightning thru the stained glass windows of the church seems so much candle flickering in the school of nite... Bob read after the mid-game stretch....invoking a McGovern rally there nigh many years ago..and ghosts past..Joel O.. Al (the man) Ginsberg and Ted (the boy) Berrigan..he began throwing HIGH HEAT in a poem about fatherhood, time, past and will...echoes of the past tied to that hesistant persistant short of breath cutting voice..in the mid innings there was some rhymed stuff..some cute stuff..an elegy to A.G. and couplets for an upcoming book...Bob went out smoking a long elegy..invoking some 50 years of breath/writing...no-one can make the line rock/hard...sound like that... the PARTY after was the usual..small clumps of atomized self-absorbed ones trying to see who was...well Bob Holman, Lewis Warsh, Steve.D. some luminaries on the scene..what SCENE? what PARTY?...after 30 years every body acting like it was a dance in Junior High and nobody was gonna talk to nobody else..less thems was over/under him/her..um... best new touch...was the guy/gal they sent out the 2nd AVE CHEESE to get the hors...brought back salami...j.c...how politically uncorrect...some 20??? years ago after Bob/Al reading at the CHURCH..got to go to the party afterwards at Allen's Apt...early and there was Allen sending Peter out to the neigborhood bodega for cold-cuts...salami/amie..at the height of the Greens war...the more things change.. as I was leaving there is a clump of poets surrounding Bob..the passing of the generational baton..mac flekno revisited..if they're looking for the new guy who can throw 100 m.p.h... take 4/5 to the South Bronx...but who's keeping score..love..zero...DRn.. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 10:53:23 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: A poet in the narrow sense (was Adventures in Poultry) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/5/00 9:55:03 PM, jmayhew@EAGLE.CC.UKANS.EDU writes: << "The Mallarme issue is pretty familiar to all of us, but Derrida is a philosopher, not a poet in the narrow sense. It just makes more sense to me that Mallarme is Derridian than the other way around, in the way that Shakespeare was Freudian (according to Jones) and not the other way around." So wrote Bill Austin. This is striking to me, because it implies a certain privilege of theoretical discourse over poetic discourse, the latter conceived of here as "narrow." It makes just as much sense to me to reverse the terms. Of course Derrida is Mallarmean, just as he is Heideggerian or Freudian. It is also obvious, to me, that Freud was more Shakesperian at least as much as vice-versa. Is Sophocles Aristotelian? He seems so if we read retrospectively, but my inclination would be to call Aristotle Sophoclean. Of course, there's no right answer here. What struck me was simply how opposite my own perspective is to that of those who privilege theory (philosophy) over poetry in this way. >> There is always a privileging, obvious or concealed, written into the language--it's unavoidable. In any sentence the predicate appropriates a privilege the other grammatical elements do not, for example. Ernest Jones considered Shakespeare Freudian because in his analysis of Hamlet he read a mother/father/son dynamic that Freud fleshed out in clinical terms. Certain concepts became identified with Freud since he exposed them, and retroactively they shed light not only on Shakespeare's genius, but also on Sophocles'. Freud once said that "The poets discovered the subconscious." As to privileging "theory over poetry in this way," does it make equal sense to you to say that Freud was Mallarmean? It's true that all privileges both adhere and collapse upon close inspection--that's a crucial Derridean point. And the process of intertextuality does demonstrate that every text is contingent upon the others across temporal boundaries. But we do need to limit, to accept a provisional center, in order to discuss and achieve conclusions (Derrida). So when discussing the philosophical paths taken by most of the great poets, it still makes more sense to me to privilege philosophers "in that way" and on that subject. When and if we discover and discuss a philosopher's poetry, it will of course make more sense to reverse the polarities. This of course is what is meant by "poet in the narrow sense," i.e., those who write poetry as opposed to those who write philosophy. In the wider sense it has been said that Derrida's texts are poetic. Similar descriptions have adhered to Freud's texts, and I've heard more than a few scholars refer to Quantum Theory as poetry. But I am certainly for limiting terms so that sensible discussions may proceed. Otherwise everything is everything, which in one sense (Derrida's as well as others') is accurate. But it tends to erase distinctions that do, from another point of view, obtain. Consider that the Quantum theorists are telling us the same thing. At the subatomic level, particles are waves and waves are particles--depends on the point of view, the questions posed, the information sought by a particular investigation/experiment. If information is the goal, if knowledge is the goal, then the Quantum guys tell us we have to make choices. If we want to measure a certain event, we must treat subatomic events as either particles or waves, but not both simultaneously. If we want to measure Mallarme's and Derrida's poetry, then Mallarme becomes dominant. But if we desire to measure their philosophical postionings, then Derrida and/or other philosophers are dominant. So I say again, when comparing poets to philosophers on philosophical issues, it makes more sense to me to privilege the philosophers since they are on their home ground and the poets usually aren't. So Mallarme is Derridean on those grounds and less so the other way around. In my view, anyone who wants to give poets equal status with philosophers in the arena of philosophy has granted poets a privilege way out of proportion to what they do, to their particular expertise. That's all I'm saying, which still seems like common sense to me. Battle on, Zena! Or is it Zeno? Best, Bill ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:59:33 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: A poet in the narrow sense (was Adventures in Poultry) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/5/00 9:55:03 PM, jmayhew@EAGLE.CC.UKANS.EDU writes: << "The Mallarme issue is pretty familiar to all of us, but Derrida is a philosopher, not a poet in the narrow sense. It just makes more sense to me that Mallarme is Derridian than the other way around, in the way that Shakespeare was Freudian (according to Jones) and not the other way around." So wrote Bill Austin. This is striking to me, because it implies a certain privilege of theoretical discourse over poetic discourse, the latter conceived of here as "narrow." >> By the way, "Derrida is a philosopher, not a poet in the narrow sense" does NOT conceive all poetic discourse as narrow. How anyone could read it that way is beyond me. Once again a part of a sentence is being lifted out of context. What the complete sentence says, according to basic grammatical and lexical structures, is that Derrida is not a poet if we define "poet" in the narrow sense. What it clearly implies is that Derrida may be considered a poet if "poet" is not narrowly defined, and the possibility of a wider definition is implied in my sentence--hell, it's right out there in neon!! Sheesh! Best, Bill ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:23:09 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: Colloquium 3.6: Lip Sync - Ron Silliman In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That began, "The internet can be" not "et can be." Whoops. P -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Patrick Herron Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 12:52 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Colloquium 3.6: Lip Sync - Ron Silliman In response to Jim Andrews: et can be a means to more fleshy encounters, true, but as an end in itself it is onanistic, disengaging, isolating. when on the internet you are alone. if you are alone in a room and you call a friend, are you not still alone? you might no longer be lonely, but you're still alone. also people have this naive dream of the internet, as some means for freedom. well, a news quiz for you? what organization started the internet? what were the purposes of the new means of communications? how many creations of the above organization reach the public sphere? how much of the current internet is about selling/marketing? how much of the web was it 5 years ago? how much of the current internet is surveilled? how many organizations compete for control of the addressing system of the WWW? how is such a surveilled environment of communications. sex is great, don't get me wrong. masturbation is great too. and i'm all for fantasy. but people can suffer from not having any human touch from others, and i'm seeing it with people frequently on the internet. so many addicts. this loss of human contact, of the physical presence of others, is a clear cost of the internet. the technology's insistence on individuation/divide and conquer can easily leave us lonely, unorganized, exploitable. the cost of the internet is that people begin to make love to machines, not other people. but then again, i'm a kook who believes in orgonomy. silly me. all media blocks communication. air, voice, print, text, paint, internet, whatever. and each one seems to block more information than the last. touch is as close as we get to whatever it is that's being shared. heck, we cannot even know what of the original message remains form the start. instead we are burdened to create things that the message recipient is compelled to reinvent. people should be wary of the pitfalls of anything. i am just so amazed that people do not know the price of the internet. everything comes at a price, and yet so many internet people seem to have some sort of religious zeal about the whole thing, about how it is all good and no bad. as if it were some purely democratic creation, when in fact it is the child of advanced defense research projects. my point is to alert people to these pitfalls. no one saying the internet is pure evil. but it does have its price. who said sex without love is really good exercise? perhaps it's affection I am speaking about; I am reminded of Jacques' quote yesterday. Besides, in my experience sex without affection has never had quite the same charging affect on me as sex with affection. the internet does not seem to be able to create that charge and it at best extremely poor at carrying that very spark across any wire. it seems no media except flesh can transfer that effectively. I use the internet in all of those means you describe, Jim. As a means of document and information exchange it is wonderful. But the internet started only partially as that, a means of information exchange, and it becomes more and more a means of information capture. Of a means for separating people form each other, from their money. It's panoptic. I also agree it's a great place to meet people with similar interests. Just wishing that people be wary of the costs for society as well as the benefits. but then, maybe society is already pretty individuated to such a rotten extreme that the sexual signals across the internet seem unrivalled for many. I just think the internet is but one of many means of engagement and communication. text. film. voice and paralinguistic gesture. touch. some means have signals that are more enriched and require more direct human space-sharing than others. i am all into art, web art, music, writing, photography, film. there is a cost to any art, to any medium, including the internet. it IS a means of onanistic individuation. thank you jim for your thoughtful response. Patrick http://proximate.org/ -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Jim Andrews Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 1:19 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Colloquium 3.6: Lip Sync - Ron Silliman >Patrick Herron wrote >"Sex on the internet is a masturbatory means of disengagement." Can be. But the internet is also where many people meet. Some are looking for sex, some are looking for lovers, friends, husbands and wives. It is actually a pretty good way to meet people if you share the same literacy or comparable literacies. In such case, the object may (or may not) still be sex, but is not necessarily a masturbatory means of disengagement. It may be a masturbatory means of engagement or a non-masturbatory means of engagement or the other two permutations also. You might say that you were speaking not of such aspects of sex on the internet but of viewing imagery or multimedia. But it is possible for someone seeking engagement, ultimately, to fantasize about it via imagery or multimedia or sound or any other stimulus. Some reports I've heard suggest we tend to think about sex quite a lot, at least once per second, and that sounds about right to me; we are sexual beings, individuals engaged and disengaged; sex is not just the wild thang but part of our continual engagement and disengagement, part of how we think, part of how we are. I imagine that most sexual orientations find their representations and correspondents on the net. There is an anonymity possible on the net that is good for fantasy and, yes, for predators. Sex on the internet can surely be a masturbatory means of disengagement, as you say, but I just wanted to point out that, quite interestingly, I think, it's much wider than that. It is a network not simply of machines but of people who exchange email (which can be very sexy), chat, voice chat and video chat, exchange files (who knows of what?), read each other's works, exchange phone numbers and saliva. Much wider than a bulletin board. In a sense, the strength of the sexual charge across the wires of the internet reflects the media/um's strength to convey our humanity, which is intrinsically sexual. This is great news for artists who seek to internalize the media/um and do compelling work in it. Regards, Jim Andrews http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:02:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael amberwind Subject: Re: Post Neotextualism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "Class is responsible for sexism," says Marx; however, according to Brophy, it is not so much class that is responsible for sexism, but rather the failure, and thus the meaninglessness, of class. But if capitalism holds, we have to choose between semanticist socialism and prematerial textual theory. If one examines neodialectic nihilism, one is faced with a choice: either accept capitalism or conclude that concensus is a product of communication. The subject is contextualised into a cultural desemioticism that includes truth as a totality. However, the characteristic theme of the works of Pynchon is a self-fulfilling paradox. In the works of Pynchon, a predominant concept is the distinction between closing and opening. Capitalism holds that culture is part of the failure of language. It could be said that d'Erlette suggests that we have to choose between subcapitalist nationalism and dialectic appropriation. The main theme of Parry's analysis of dialectic nationalism is the bridge between society and sexual identity. Foucault suggests the use of capitalism to challenge class divisions. However, Sontag uses the term 'posttextual dialectic theory' to denote not, in fact, theory, but subtheory. If capitalism holds, we have to choose between the neotextual paradigm of concensus and deconstructivist precapitalist theory. Thus, Sartre promotes the use of semanticist socialism to deconstruct and analyse society. Several narratives concerning capitalism exist. It could be said that Marx uses the term 'dialectic nationalism' to denote the role of the reader as observer. The subject is interpolated into a semanticist socialism that includes truth as a whole. Therefore, Lyotard suggests the use of dialectic nationalism to challenge hierarchy. An abundance of discourses concerning the difference between class and sexuality may be discovered. In a sense, Derrida promotes the use of capitalism to read class. A number of narratives concerning dialectic nationalism exist. It could be said that d'Erlette implies that we have to choo se between capitalism and the patriarchial paradigm of narrative. Any number of theories concerning the fatal flaw, and eventually the futility, of neocapitalist society may be revealed. However, the subject is contextualised into a dialectic nationalism that includes art as a paradox. Dialectic discourse and subcultural dialectic theory. "Sexual identity is used in the service of capitalism," says Foucault; however, according to Tilton, it is not so much sexual identity that is used in the service of capitalism, but rather the stasis, and subsequent paradigm, of sexual identity. The primary theme of the works of Eco is the common ground between class and sexual identity. It could be said that the futility, and eventually the fatal flaw, of subcultural dialectic theory prevalent in Eco's Foucault's Pendulum is also evident in The Aesthetics of Thomas Aquinas, although in a more mythopoetical sense. Marx's essay on Lacanist obscurity holds that the Constitution is capable of truth. Thus, Bataille uses the term 'dialectic nationalism' to denote a dialectic whole. Many dematerialisms concerning subcultural dialectic theory exist. However, the main theme of Cameron's model of capitalist discourse is the futility, and therefore the absurdity, of neotextual society. Of course, I could be wrong and invite List input on the matter. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 16:33:14 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Devin Johnston Subject: Flood Editions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FLOOD EDITIONS, based in Chicago, is a new press for poetry from North America, Britain, and elsewhere. We intend to publish exciting new books as well as reprints of neglected=20 classics. FLOOD EDITIONS will begin issuing fine but affordable books in the spring, and will post special offers to the Poetics List. Here are some titles currently scheduled for 2001: Robert Duncan, LETTERS Originally published in 1958, this volume of poetry marks the beginning of=20 Duncan=92s major phase. It is a brilliantly varied work which, in the author= =92s own works, sets "self-creation and self-consciousness in constant interplay.= " A lost high-modernist classic. ______________________________________ Pam Rehm, GONE TO EARTH Rehm is the author of four previous volumes of poetry including To Give It U= p, a winner of the 1994 National Poetry Series award.=20 ______________________________________ Ronald Johnson, THE SHRUBBERIES This volume represents Johnson=92s final poems=97condensed and cosmic. "I have always thought Ron Johnson a terrific poet: everything he has=20 written has surprised and delighted me.=94=97Thom Gunn ______________________________________ Tom Pickard, HOLE IN THE WALL: NEW & SELECTED "His ear for syntax is exceedingly delicate, his syntax strong and terse, and his vocabulary free of fancy work."=97Basil Bunting "I am an old admirer of Tom Pickard's poetry and believe as does Basil Bunting that he is one of the most live and true poetic voices in Great Britain"=97Allen Ginsberg For more information, write to the following: P.O. Box 3865 Chicago IL 60654-0865 floodeditions@aol.com Thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 15:57:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Avery Burns Subject: Canessa Park 10/22/00 Willis & Gizzi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Canessa Park Reading Series 708 Montgomerty St. @ Columbus San Francisco, CA Admission $5 Sunday October 22nd @ 5 p.m. Elizabeth Willis & Peter Gizzi ELIZABETH WILLIS is the author of SECOND LAW (Avenue B,1993) and THE HUMAN ABSTRACT (Penguin, 1995). She teaches writing and literature at Mills College. Her work "picks up on a line of generative orders of visionary poetry and leads the reader to an uncharted place, speaking of and to a new generation of American writers." (Lisa Jarnot, Poetry Project Newsletter). > PETER GIZZI's latest book of poems ARTIFICIAL HEART (Burning Deck, 1998)has just been reprinted. The British journal Stand called ARTIFICIAL HEART "one of the events of the decade," and The New York Review of books reported that Gizzi's poetry "is on the quixotic mission of recovering the lyric." His other publications include PERIPLUM (Avec, 1992), and the chapbooks: ADD THIS TO THE HOUSE (Equipage, 1999), HOURS OF THE BOOK (Zasterle, 1994), and MUSIC FOR FILMS (Paradigm,1992). Hope to see you there, Avery E. D. Burns Literary Director Canessa Park __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 00:32:13 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Summer Sonata. Richard Taylor. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Summer Sonata =20 We had thought, at least in first wise, to whistle instances, that = coming down to the Valley until our darkness might explode like a = witch's oval berry.But, by association, The Towers (who had been quietly = cognisant if not sadly observant), stood with great and sudden suddenty = to attention (they) who have e'en now (just nary) some forty aeons for = maybe a Tom thumb or a jumping jack to crack, Jack. Crack! There is and = was a tremendous commotion as of an enactment to some purpose yet shares = remain steady and el Presidente displayed his dentals. Much have I = travelled. But I turned off at Kopakopa into Huketai to examine a = thistle-patch, or a magpie, a tui, or even a cow, and an abandoned = tractor fossil. You joined me and it was then I came upon us. Who were we, you = eternally asked? They meantime were vanished into clumps and (quite = probably) had merged with the stainless steel land,which as you well = know, is as beautiful as a real advert, and gave off the tinkle sounds = of melting snow. The microphones, who had been (generously I must say) = ear lending,had booked in to rent a conclusion. Just then they bent = further in. This circumstance made further calls on us (poor defeated = souls) as great ungulphable gulphs of (in)comprehension burnt deep into = Jeff Koon's beautiful ceramic of Michael Jackson, for instance. The Porn began. The Thorn began. And the Horn began.Not Rebecca, but = we'd lost Blake's number,and the derivations, and the thick, and the = trick, and the tick of it. Today, much replenished and replete, I sit at my broad dark old oak = desk. And it goes thus hard with me, that, in a sort of systemantic = frenzied and syncopated reticulated and revivified repetio I spin in = tasks, despite my petrol migraine. In such a wise I am to be seen ( a = lonely, nay, pathetic) figure: automating my signal jerk function. Thus = I arise, reach forward, grasp, and take item x from shelf b, retract it = with great solicitude to my desk (where the brassy lamplight delineates = it to its greatest advantage), where (with great care and concision) I = compare it to item c. Then I reach forward and... This process repeats = in shittering (yet strangely static) frames. And at the attainment of = each mid bloob cycle of this endless process (by which the being who is = thus stooped is deeply occupied) he stops, shifts, and reconsiders. A = Face peers round the corner of the door jamb to watch him. Look at him. Somebody should take him away. Madness, joy, freedom, = and the burning rainbow beckon. Richard Taylor. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 11:45:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael amberwind Subject: Re: Missionary Positions Available in the Temple of Social Welfare MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > 1. Why not empower the reader instead by > having the reader screw your text? metaphors as whips? metynomy as chains? is iambic pentameter a kind of missionary position? > The author subjugates the reader: this is the > same thing the Langpo got up > in arms about; the subjugation of the reader is > something for the workshops, > for the newspapers, for that gawdawful Voice Of > Authority we are taught from > day one to write in. In order to be "good" > writers. Etc. etc. of course langpo doesn't subjugate the reader - didn't you hear - no "body" reads this stuff > Allowing the reader to penetrate the text, and > not vice-versa, seems to me > to break with the dominance and punishment of > masculinity, the nature that > fascinates the masculine with war, suffering, > punishment, brutality, death, > that replaces sex with brutality, that replaces > reproduction and absorption > and life with murder and dissection and death? > Objectification seems fairly > masculine to me. why does it seem masculine to you? what dualities are your altar built in worship of? > This "new" relationship is not new; it is as > old as language itself, as old > as the oracles, the god voice, and the humans > submit. The opposite is what > is new: it is only as of relatively late in > human history that humans have a > possibility for not submitting to that > god-voice nature of language, that > language can be used in modes other than the > command mode. make it so > What Dodie seems to support, at least > transitively in the above quotes, is > the very functional center of paternal power > structures and unlateralized > linguistic centers in the brain. Language can > be a portal into a person's > brain; that portal is frequently used to > manipulate people like puppets. > But it also can be a portal to deprogram that > very possibility of > manipulation, to empower things other than the > strength of orders & > linguistic gestures of authority. Oh, to give > the reader the chance to > invent the text as it is read! Masculinity, > division, colonialization and > authority have served humanity well, it could > be argued. (I don't agree > with that, but heck, for argument's sake....) if you don't agree w/ it then call it shit - what does "argument's sake" mean anyway? why do we settle for that? 2 party systems and 2 brands of Cola have rendered our brains numb as a culture - not that "I" have an answer > But they seem now more to lay > waste than to help humanity survive, and it is > time for something other than > violence and division in this epoch of man. > Why fuck something when there > can be fucking? seems the Temple of Social Welfare has been invaded by the poets - or vice versa - personally i'd rather be a Shaman than Priest - tho that's my predeliction > 2. Being sure about the reality either of > text, the understanding of the > text, or the act of flesh fucking, seems to me > a position only some deity, > some being equipped with metaphysical glasses, > can assume. I am suspect of > anyone with an objective window on reality. We > cannot ever be sure if we > are truly arbiters or witnesses of reality. > Period. This misconception of > metaphysical insight is but one legacy of > god-mind and the slow > lateralization of linguistic functions in the > brain. > > I have been working for a long time on > addressing this very topic. > Appropriately, I am using the internet, that > most distal form of human > interaction, that most egregiously dictatorial > marketing tool, that most > exalted of high panoptic weapons ever formed, > in order to criticize > authority, and to make an illustration of this > topic in general. Yes, a web > site. But it is no ordinary web site, yet it > is. Heh. It seems I have to > use the authority-voice in order to get away > from authority. Funny how > contradictory that sounds. and does AUTHORITY quiver in its boots? > But, criminy, how many of you are even barely > curious about the > http://proximate.org site? I can tell by my > other posts on the subject > that almost all of you are either unequipped to > deal with this topic of > linguistic domination and aesthetics or you are > simply not curious about an > uncommon position for evaluating authority, > consciousness, and media. > Perhaps I am failing or just a pedantic > dullard. Or just some dumb kid. > Heh. why do i feel as tho modern poetics has moved into a summer rerun phase? you try to appeal to my guilt to click on yr website thus i will resist and instead go elsewhere which is to say no "where" > C'est la merde. Ahh, my server logs, plains of > dust, such barren fields! > > Perhaps I should have gone for that PhD and > learned to submit to footnotes > and my place in intellectual civilization (re: > underfoot). > > It seems so many people were asleep when > reading Genet. How gestures form > power. Or maybe I was asleep, unwilling to > accept how people are > continually fed shit and go back for more. > if i read all the philosophs everyone ever thot it worth my time to read - if i followed down every footnote and lived the life of a scholar - where would i draw my sustenance as a poet from? dust and spiders - on that we agree i must go now - the Simpsons is on __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 16:31:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harold Teichman Subject: What Jakobson got wrong about metalanguage, Part II Comments: cc: GthomGt@cs.com, jmayhew@eagle.cc.ukans.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Let's look further at J's explanations of metalanguage in the 'ordinary linguistic' or informal sense (henceforth ML-inf), i.e. 'language about language'. Someone with no interest in the technicalities that I labored to explain a bit in my last post might walk away with the mistaken impression that even though J has clearly not thought very hard about the original meaning of the term ML in logical (or even technical linguistic) discourse, that's irrelevant in light of his 'brilliant' insights into the way ML-inf functions in everyday talk or in literature. I hardly find it impressive in itself that one of the best-known linguists of the last century, who managed always to be in the right place in the right time rubbing shoulders with all the right people, at least as far as structuralism was concerned, was able to _understand_ the banal truism: The term metalanguage may be understood as language about language, and in that sense we use it all the time, even as children. One hopes his command of the ‘code’ reached at least that far. I doubt also that he was the first person to notice this (I have a feeling that some Stoics and medievals at least, not to mention George’s Sanskrit grammarians, beat him to the punch here). So what brilliant explanatory or theoretical insights does he go on to offer? I have already indicated three of his main theses (about ML-inf, if not ML): (1) It’s a matter of statements of equality, i.e. equations or identities, involving the introduction of substitutable expressions. (2) It’s fundamentally semantic, a matter of glossing or paraphrasing the meaning of expressions. (3) It’s really ‘language about the "code"’. With regard to (1) and (2), the same considerations that I mentioned before about the _syntactic_ character of many metalinguistic usages apply to our ML-inf usages: The statement ‘You say "a brown pony" but not "a pony brown" in correct English’ is ML-inf. Notice that it makes _no_ statement of equality or substitutability, and performs no paraphrase or glossing. It serves only to allow or exclude certain grammatical forms, rather like the ML statement ‘if A is well-formed, so is ~A’ of propositional logic. So (1) and (2) fail here. The statement "But you said you were coming" (quite common among children), which might be construed as oratio obliqua, is also ML-inf. Note that again there is no declaration of equality or paraphrase here. It does _not_ say something like ‘The words "…" that you previously used may be glossed in our "code" as "I’m going to come"’. So (1) and (2) fail here too. So (1) and (2) account _at best_ for only a very limited subset of our actual ML-inf. (2) could be further questioned, but I haven’t got the time now. And (3) only has force (possibly) if we have a non-trivial account of what the (or a) ‘code’ of our language might be. Can examples of the ‘code’ of English be produced, or it simply a posited ‘transcendental’, like phlogiston? Is an inventory of the Saussurian ‘signs’ in my head now (for Saussure’s signs are all in the head) the ‘code’? Is the OED the ‘code’? Is a grammar book the ‘code’? Is an account of linguistic pragmatics the ‘code’? A book of generative or transformational grammar? All of the above? Can the ‘code’ be written down in ML-inf? What a useful term, code. (About as useful as the term ‘metonymy’.) So where’s all the brilliance and insight here? There is a widespread myth of J’s ‘rigour’ and near-infallible breadth of technical, theoretical knowledge among poets and critics. I think I have said enough to undermine that myth, though there’s a lot more that could be said. I found a quote from Ilya Ehrenburg about J on the Web: "What struck me was that he knew everything… Occasionally he made things up, but when anyone tried to catch him out in an inaccuracy, he replied with a grin: ‘That was just a working hypothesis of mine’." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 14:02:14 -0700 Reply-To: rovasax@rova.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rova Saxophone Quartet Subject: Re: Colloquium 1.6: The STRAP-HANGER - Kevin Killian In-Reply-To: <947301.3179331959@ubppp248-233.dialin.buffalo.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm sitting here at this bar watching the Giants take the Mets into extra innings, my body twisting through various emotions and already making eye contact with the androgynous brunette at the bar, who's now having a heated discussion with her boyfriend, at first (I fantasize) about me, my immediate sexual impact on the scene. But the Giants have already given up a run in the top of the 10th and are now batting, and I'm nervous and "sitting on the edge of my seat," in this case a stool set up at a high wood table. Nobody here gives a damn about the game. Older cronies in overalls at the bar arguing about the finer points of a discussion long since obscured, pointing fingers and slapping high fives, a blonde woman and two men shooting pool (badly), cigarette cocked behind ear now going outside to smoke (and the Giants have lost now, Barry Bonds looking at strike 3 in the bottom of the 10th a questionable curve that hooked in just at the letters). An unbelievable, up-and-down game, I can practically feel my seratonin levels sagging back down as the urge to smash something slowly subsides into the dull throb of disappointment. Thinking about the Colloquium on Dodie Bellamy's Body/Sex/Writing and Taylor's part-writing partially successful attempt to hijack the discussion onto his train which takes him both literally and figuratively into his "job as a writer." And how well he expresses the frustration of gender as limited and defined by language, "I have these two bodies," at once calling into play the notion of possession and dichotomy, the latter of which strikes me as the more pressing concern... To that end I'd like to consciously bring in the crowd as body, without which no understanding of the personal sexual "written" body can be complete. Bellamy's workshop, Taylor's (and moreso Hofer's and Killian's) train, even Gluck's orgy scene stage the crowd in various configurations, either as witness to or active participant in the personal but divided body (Killian's Straphanger, jostling and getting jostled and feeling its way outwards through the proximity of other bodies). Hofer points out that eye contact is a forbidden intimacy when pressed in so closely with others, the denial of same being the last barrier between the last shred of personal self left and the deluge of flesh that surrounds it. But even without the feel of a half-hard cock on one's ass or thigh, all such contact suggests the sexual, as the crowd in a Mexico City metro moves in one body bucking and swaying as if copulating. I have written numerous poems on buses or trains, making or trying to make the almost supersensory observations as violations, silent confrontations, sexual connections, acquiescences and tragedies play themselves out in a matter of seconds between bodies ordinarily (one would imagine) too timid to loosen the various parts of themselves to experience such flashes of union. Very much in the manner of a "Baudelairian moment," but also with a twist of the "Straphanger" thrown in for the sake of losing the annoying baggage of self. Taylor writes of the crowd within himself, the various particles, organs, fluids circulating and exchanging, but what of the actual crowd, represented by the passengers on a train (or audience, or participants in an orgy), without which the titillation, discomfort, and a good portion of one's own awareness of body as a sexual force would hardly be possible? Perhaps such gatherings are among our few opportunities to experience the seductive power of the crowd in its most primitive form, the primal crowd of the types Canetti surveys in his Crowds and Power. If it's true that the natural impetus of the excited or angry crowd is to explode outwards, breaking windows as it goes not only for the satisfying sound of shattering glass but as a symbolic attempt to shatter all barriers between inside and out, between crowd and not-crowd, between singular self and others within the crowd, perhaps such jostling on the train is a similar attempt, with the eyes being the last window that remains to be broken. This colloquium, this poetics list, is a crowd of poets. And each poet gathers a crowd of words. Is it too simple and romantic to make the leap into a sort of polysexuality in which questions of gender become moot where it concerns the identity-obliterating qualities of the crowd? As I wait with 40,000 screaming Giants fans for Barry Bonds to take the hanging curve that will end the game, I'm annoyed that those around me in the bar seem oblivious, separate, not taking part in the drama. Bellamy "stiffens" at her reading as if to say "this is not a body," denying that body to the crowd that would see all the way down to the frayed elastic on her panties. Later at a party she does not feel part of the crowd because she's overdressed, just as Tom Cruise at the orgy in Eyes Wide Shut is overdressed and will not take his clothes off, will not submit to the will of the crowd, which desires his flesh as a precursor to "losing him" completely in the orgy. Hofer tries not to have a body while riding on her crowded train, yet her language reveals that she is extremely aware of the touch of bodies around her, "feeling flayed..." her "ass touching asses and hips and purses instead of half-hard cocks..." and it is only while she's able to sit down alone that she feels comfortable in her body, but this ironically seems to mean that she's not feeling her body as body at all. Only the Straphangers on Killian's train (and from my experience they even have female-only cars in Mexico City trains to alleviate such pressure) buck and sway and willingly feel their personal barriers slipping away. Even the filthy ass on Taylor's train belongs to either gender, triggering as it does such a richness of detail and taking him back to pre-adolescent afternoons when there wasn't much difference between the shapes of male and female asses, grimy or no. Which begins to point out the danger of assuming a gender at all, as at any given moment one might be male or female, hetero or homo, the one doing the rubbing or the one rubbed against, watching ass or feeling someone watching one's ass. To "experience the crowd as a smorgasbord of delight" as Killian would do, "always the maximum frission of contact, friction, pleasure," is to "practice a body" that is no body at all, or every body all at once, with no separation between. To bring this back to the subject of writing seems to invite references and ghosts that are most unfashionable these days, such as Keats and Whitman, and I confess I haven't read most of the texts to which Bellamy, Brady, and Hofer refer... I believe I've stated a position already that falls somewhere between the straphanger and the baudelairian moment of address, but to articulate that further into how it translates in my own poetics is murky and somewhat dangerous territory indeed. There are all kinds of crowds. And these days, especially in San Francisco (as I would imagine the case to be as well in New York or Mex City) there is an urge to resist the crowd, go against the crowd, shut the crowd out and get a moment's peace. The authorities have been using the deeply ingrained fear of the violent crowd to their advantage in recent crackdowns in Seattle, Washington, Philly and L.A., infiltrating or allowing fringe elements to stand as examples of what could happen if the crowd is allowed to get "out of control." As a writer, I think it's not only necessary to feel oneself spreading into the crowd, but to let the crowd inside from time to time as well, and alternately assume or discard roles as masculine or feminine that shift as quickly as the bodies on a train. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 13:09:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: Notice: Mudlark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII New and On View at Mudlark Jack Martin | Poster No. 28 (2000) Grant Proposal | Elvis Impersonator | Countdown Jack Martin's poems have appeared in Agni, Crazyhorse, Ploughshares, Quarterly West, www.wordvirtual.com, and other journals. His chapbook is Weekend Sentences (Pudding House). He lives in Colorado. While you may not think this is the time to be talking about life insurance, you couldn't be more wrong. In 1892, a swarm of monarch butterflies inundated Cleveland. Today, forty-foot flames force my friends out of their home in the canyon. Trees on fire can explode and catapult flaming logs through the air. Burning embers can ride wind for miles. The sheriff's eyes are wild horses. He says, I'm only going to tell you once. There's ice on the moon. from Countdown Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter _________________ MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 14:48:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: 9 poets on 3 nights Comments: To: Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hejinian on Stein, Blau DuPlessis on Woolf, Silliman on Williams, Hunt on Becket & Baldwin, Retallack on Stein, Osman on Reznikoff, Bernstein on Benjamin, Armantrout on Dickinson, Perelman on Zukofsky << audio recordings will be made available on the web >> THE KELLY WRITERS HOUSE at 3805 Locust Walk on the campus of the University of Pennsylvania in collaboration with the Modernist Studies Association & Creative Writing Program of Penn's English department presents nine contemporary poets read themselves through modernism - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - < www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/9poets.html > Three nights of readings at the Kelly Writers House, 3805 Locust Walk on Penn's campus: each night will feature three contemporary poets reading from their own writings, thirty-minute selections chosen to express a relationship to the work of a modernist. Thursday, October 12, 9:30 PM ----------------------------------------- Lyn Hejinian / Gertrude Stein Ron Silliman / William Carlos Williams Joan Retallack / Gertrude Stein (& others) Friday, October 13, 9:30 PM ------------------------------------------ Charles Bernstein / Walter Benjamin Rachel Blau DuPlessis / Virginia Woolf Erica Hunt / Samuel Beckett & James Baldwin Saturday, October 14, 9:30 PM ------------------------------------------ Jena Osman / Charles Reznikoff Bob Perelman / Louis Zukofsky Rae Armantrout / Emily Dickinson The "nine poets" program has been organized & convened by Al Filreis, Class of 1942 Professor of English & Faculty Director of the Kelly Writers House, and is introduced by Al Filreis and Kerry Sherin, Director of the Kelly Writers House. Funded by the Writers House, MSA, and the Creative Writing Program of the Department of English. For more information, see the reverse. more on 9 poets --------------- The "9 poets" readings will be recorded in digital audio and made available to anyone, anywhere, free of charge, in RealAudio format. The permanent site for the recordings--and information about the poets--is here: www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/9poets.html join our live webcasts ---------------------- The Writers House hosts some workshops, readings, and discussions through live webcasts. The live sessions are recorded and linked permanently here: www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/webcasts Recordings include sessions with Slavoj Zizek, Kenneth Goldsmith, John Edgar Wideman, Robert Creeley, Thalia Field, Grace Paley, John Updike, Steve McCaffrey, Lisa Robertson, Marjorie Perloff, Ron Silliman, Jena Osman, Brian Kim Stefans, Barrett Watten, Rachel Blau DuPlessis, Edwin Torres, and others. Upcoming Writers House programs presented via live webcasts include: Joan Retallack (Nov. 14), Tony Kushner (Feb. 12), and June Jordan (Apr. 23). To receive notices of such programs, write to wh@english.upenn.edu. what is the Writers House? -------------------------- Founded as an experimental learning community by students, staff, faculty, alumni and neighbors of the University of Pennsylvania in 1995-96, the Kelly Writers House is a participant-run writing arts collaborative house in a fourteen-room 1851 Tudor-style cottage at 3805 Locust Walk. The Writers House hosts three hundred seminars, workshops, readings, lectures, exhibits, webcasts, radio broadcasts (on WXPN-FM, www.xpn.org), courses and colloquia each year. The Kelly Writers House 3805 Locust Walk (215) 573-WRIT www.english.upenn.edu/~wh ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 11:49:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Burger Subject: New Langton Reading, 10/14 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" BRENDA COULTAS and LAUREN GUDATH at New Langton Arts, SF Saturday, Oct. 14, 8 p.m. For her first reading in SF, New York poet Brenda Coultas takes the audience to New York City's Bowery in her piece "Inside the Weather". There she finds a 16mm educational film about the weather during an exporatory dumpster dive. San Francisco Poet Lauren Gudath reads from "Animal and Robot," exploring the intersection of instinct and mechanization. New Langton Arts 1246 Folsom St. @ 9th SF, 94103 Tickets: $6 general, $4 members and students 415.626.5416 for reservations ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 01:29:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: levitsk@ATTGLOBAL.NET Subject: days of metacapitalism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit has anyone noticed, as evidenced in recent commercials? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 15:29:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bertha Rogers Subject: October Update, New York State Council on the Arts Literary Curators Web Site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear Friends, October 8 of the harvest month--here in the Catskills, snow has joined the falling leaves; and throughout New York, the spoken word joins and elevates the written word. Take a look at the Events page on http://www.nyslittree.org for the many readings in cities and villages. To add your listings for November, please email us (in the format shown on each page) no later than the 25th of October; if you're new to the site, please include information about your organization (see the Organizations page) and your literary curators (see Curators page). If you're a writer and would like to be listed on the Circuit Writers or Interstate Writers page email information as shown on the page. Questions? Email us at wordthur@catskill.net. More news: We're planning to include literary presses and magazines throughout the state. Please send, as a jpeg file, the scanned cover of the title you wish to represent your press, along with a 2- to 3-line description of the title. Include the name of your press, snail mail address, voice and fax, and email/web site addresses. More news: Coming soon -- the all-new, New York State Literary Map! Bertha Rogers Program Manager ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 20:46:57 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nuyopoman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 2 Oct 2000 to 4 Oct 2000 (#2000-166 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable National Poetry League Try Outs Saturday, Oct 21 10am-4pm 128 Chambers St @ W. Broadway, NYC, 2nd floor=20 Looking for poets to be on a TV pilot where all-poet teams create poems=20 collaboratively & improvisationally. Faux game show aura. You will have a theme; you must =E2=80=9Cwrite=E2=80=9D the poem =E2=80=9Cal= oud=E2=80=9D linked to your=20 team=E2=80=99s previous lines; standard poetic forms (sonnet/tanka/limerick=20= et al)=20 will be used (no prior knowledge necessary). The show is being pitched to the Comedy Channel. Thus, funny and kinetic is=20 the poetic tone. Bob Holman * 173 Duane St #2 NY NY 10013 * 212-334-6414 Fax: 6415 holman@bard.edu * nuyopoman@aol.com * poetry.about.com =20 poetry.guide@about.com * www.worldofpoetry.org=20 bholman@washingtonsquarearts.com * www.peoplespoetry.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 21:51:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: heartfelt thanks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = heartfelt thanks i want to thank everyone from the depths of my heart, that i've been able to log on, this wonderful time. that there is a an internet provider with loving and intelligent people, keeping complex machines running with smooth and fluid connections, and that i am able to dial them up with a swift and complex machine of my own, in order to write and chat with you with so much comfort. i want to thank the electric company that they have given me this power, for it is with this power that the missile missive comes from me to you. i want to thank universal routers unlimited for procuring stable pathways. i want to thank the world for providing me with nourishment and health, that i still have use of my hands and mind, eyes and fingers, that i am here, that thankfulness need not have an object. i want to thank the theoretical premise of the fragility of good things in the midst of chaos and catastrophic disorder. it is enough to keep me from crying and depression in the mornings. it is almost enough, the delicate comfort and tenderness of being online, looking forward to comfort-mess- ages every day, that this missile missive has come through, one more time, in a very troubled world. === ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 18:57:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Kathleen Fraser/SF/BlueBar Comments: cc: WOM-PO@listserv.muohio.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All, Just home from a great reading by Cole Swenson and Kathleen Fraser at Jill Stengel's BlueBar/a+bend press series in San Francisco. Kathleen's reading of her "AD Notebooks" was incredibly moving and rigorous. I was sad to hear the official announcement that the last reading in this series is next month (Martha Ronk & Patricia Dienstfrey), though happy for Jill because it is for happy personal reasons that she must end the series. It's been really a great one, with two new beautiful chapbooks & two readers every 2nd Sunday at a swank jazz bar in North Beach. I don't know how Jill does it and am eager to see what she does next. There's also a rumor that the series may continue under new directorship. Elizabeth ___________________________________________ Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page2.html ___________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 09:31:48 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Thompson Subject: Re: What Jakobson got wrong about metalanguage, Part II Comments: To: hteichma@erols.com Comments: cc: jmayhew@eagle.cc.ukans.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 10/7/00 4:30:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 hteichma@erols.com writes: > Let's look further at J's explanations of metalanguage in the 'ordinary > linguistic' or informal sense (henceforth ML-inf), i.e. 'language about > language'. Someone with no interest in the technicalities that I > labored to explain a bit in my last post might walk away with the > mistaken impression that even though J has clearly not thought very hard > about the original meaning of the term ML in logical (or even technical > linguistic) discourse, that's irrelevant in light of his 'brilliant' > insights into the way ML-inf functions in everyday talk or in > literature. > =20 > I hardly find it impressive in itself that one of the best-known > linguists of the last century, who managed always to be in the right > place in the right time rubbing shoulders with all the right people, at > least as far as structuralism was concerned, was able to _understand_ > the banal truism: The term metalanguage may be understood as language > about language, and in that sense we use it all the time, even as > children. One hopes his command of the =E2=80=98code=E2=80=99 reached at= least that > far. I doubt also that he was the first person to notice this (I have a > feeling that some Stoics and medievals at least, not to mention George= =E2=80=99s > Sanskrit grammarians, beat him to the punch here). So what brilliant > explanatory or theoretical insights does he go on to offer? Well, the vehemence of these ad hominem attacks against J is what aroused me= =20 to respond in the first place. I don't know what the source is of HT's=20 animus against J, but it smells strangely personal to me. I'm not intereste= d=20 in wading into that swamp. But as a matter of fact, J's structuralism was=20= a=20 *linguistic* one, and if there was a rubbing of shoulders it seems to me tha= t=20 it was the later anthropological and literary structuralists who did the=20 rubbing -- not J -- who was exploring linguistic structuralism as early as=20 the twenties [as a founding member of the Prague Linguistic Circle, he coine= d=20 the term 'structuralism' in 1929]. But who cares about who was rubbing whom= =20 back then, or later in Paris, or New York, or Cambridge? What does it matter= ?=20 As for HT's 'philosophical' point here: I think that you have misunderstood.= =20 Obviously metalinguistic behavior has been around for as long as language=20 has been around. So *obviously* J did not invent the behavior. No, he took= =20 Tarski's technical term and he applied it to something in ordinary discourse= =20 that had been little noticed. J's insight was to suggest that it wasn't jus= t=20 Skt grammarians or Stoic or Medieval schoolmen or Tarski who were engaged in= =20 metalinguistic esoterica. No, we all were and are so engaged. I don't know=20 about you, but to me this is an interesting and productive insight, which ha= s=20 changed the way that I understand many things in language, including various= =20 sorts of poetries. If Tarski has done that for you, great. If not, maybe thi= s=20 discussion should be taking place on some philosophy list. > =20 > I have already indicated three of his main theses (about ML-inf, if not > ML): > (1) It=E2=80=99s a matter of statements of equality, i.e. equations or > identities, involving the introduction of substitutable expressions. > (2) It=E2=80=99s fundamentally semantic, a matter of glossing or paraphra= sing > the meaning of expressions. > (3) It=E2=80=99s really =E2=80=98language about the "code"=E2=80=99. > =20 > With regard to (1) and (2), the same considerations that I mentioned > before about the _syntactic_ character of many metalinguistic usages > apply to our ML-inf usages: > =20 > The statement =E2=80=98You say "a brown pony" but not "a pony brown" in c= orrect > English=E2=80=99 is ML-inf. Notice that it makes _no_ statement of equal= ity or > substitutability, and performs no paraphrase or glossing. It serves > only to allow or exclude certain grammatical forms, rather like the ML > statement =E2=80=98if A is well-formed, so is ~A=E2=80=99 of propositiona= l logic. So > (1) and (2) fail here. Judgments about grammatical acceptability are metalinguistic, yes. J's focu= s=20 was on lexical acceptability. He didn't deal with grammatical aceptability=20 in this context. Your point is well taken. But does this really diminish=20 the value of his main take on metalanguage? Not significantly, in my opinio= n. > =20 > The statement "But you said you were coming" (quite common among > children), which might be construed as oratio obliqua, is also ML-inf. > Note that again there is no declaration of equality or paraphrase here. > It does _not_ say something like =E2=80=98The words "=E2=80=A6" that you=20= previously used > may be glossed in our "code" as "I=E2=80=99m going to come"=E2=80=99. So=20= (1) and (2) > fail here too. No, I don't accept the claim that this statement is metalinguistic. Oratio=20 obliqua, sure, but why metalinguistic? If the statement were metalinguistic= =20 it would be a statement about the code. But this statement is obviously not= =20 about the code. It is about the relationship between the given statement an= d=20 reality. In other words, this child is more interested in the relationship=20 between the word ['you said...'] and the world. This is a matter, you know,= =20 of language and reality, truth and lies, and all that important stuff. The=20 child has in mind the question: can I trust you? That is a question about=20 the world, not about the code. I'm surprised at HT's error in this. =20 > =20 > So (1) and (2) account _at best_ for only a very limited subset of our > actual ML-inf. (2) could be further questioned, but I haven=E2=80=99t go= t the > time now. > =20 > And (3) only has force (possibly) if we have a non-trivial account of > what the (or a) =E2=80=98code=E2=80=99 of our language might be. Can exa= mples of the > =E2=80=98code=E2=80=99 of English be produced, or it simply a posited=20= =E2=80=98transcendental=E2=80=99, > like phlogiston? Is an inventory of the Saussurian =E2=80=98signs=E2=80= =99 in my head > now (for Saussure=E2=80=99s signs are all in the head) the =E2=80=98code= =E2=80=99? Is the OED > the =E2=80=98code=E2=80=99? Is a grammar book the =E2=80=98code=E2=80= =99? Is an account of linguistic > pragmatics the =E2=80=98code=E2=80=99? A book of generative or transform= ational > grammar? All of the above? Can the =E2=80=98code=E2=80=99 be written do= wn in ML-inf? > What a useful term, code. (About as useful as the term =E2=80=98metonymy= =E2=80=99.) Look, as a Vedicist, I happen to be very interested in the problem of=20 deciphering the script of the ancient Indus Valley Civilization, one of the=20 'great mysteries of the ancient world'. This script has not been=20 decipherered *precisely* because we do not know the code. We need a Rosetta= =20 Stone, that is, a bilingual text that will permit us to use a known language= =20 in order to decipher [i.e., de-code] the unknown one. Your philosophical=20 doubts aboout codes don't impress me, because I know that codes and the=20 processes of de-coding are very real indeed. No doubt a Tarski or a=20 Wittgenstein are good for some things. But when it comes to natural=20 languages I'd put my trust in linguists. Or are you prepared to decipher th= e=20 Indus Valley Script by means of language games or formal logic? Good luck! > =20 > So where=E2=80=99s all the brilliance and insight here? There is a wides= pread > myth of J=E2=80=99s =E2=80=98rigour=E2=80=99 and near-infallible breadth=20= of technical, > theoretical knowledge among poets and critics. I think I have said > enough to undermine that myth, though there=E2=80=99s a lot more that cou= ld be > said. I found a quote from Ilya Ehrenburg about J on the Web: "What > struck me was that he knew everything=E2=80=A6 Occasionally he made thing= s up, > but when anyone tried to catch him out in an inaccuracy, he replied with > a grin: =E2=80=98That was just a working hypothesis of mine=E2=80=99." Well, anyone who attempts to deal with evidence knows that some hypotheses=20 work and that others don't. You try things. If they work you keep using=20 them. If they don't work or if they stop working you abandon them. I'm wit= h=20 J all the way on this. =20 As for lya Ehrenburg's smug remark, it reeks of envy. I've already discarde= d=20 it. Best, George Thompson > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 11:48:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Douglas Subject: Re: Poetic Recipes from the Cutting Edge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Of course there is my Eating through Literature & Art (Sun & Moon Press) which includes recipes by many noted poets and fiction writers and pieces embedded in poetry and fiction on food! (Along with food by artists). It was a big success upon it's publication. And Marinetti is also a poet--The Futurist Cookbook! ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ -----Original Message----- From: George Bowering To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Monday, October 02, 2000 5:58 PM Subject: Re: Poetic Recipes from the Cutting Edge >>Subsubpoetics >> >>Why is there no poetry cookbook? >> >>Neidecker has one, it was a chap from overlook >>about thanksgiving & food prep >>released in 82 >> >>Be well >> >>David Baratier, Editor > >Margaret Atwood, as one might have expected, edited one that was >published in 1987. > >gb >-- >George Bowering >Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 22:22:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kristin Dykstra Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=F1_presents_Lourdes_V=E1zquez:_bilingual_reading?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =F1 Poes=EDa y cr=EDtica: a non-unilingual reading series at la SUNY-B=FAfalo presents: LOURDES V=C1ZQUEZ reading from Bestiario/Bestiary: Selected Poems (Bilingual Reading) at Rust Belt Books, 202 Allen Street (near Elmwood Avenue) in Buffalo Thursday, Oct. 19th at 8 p.m. FREE Lourdes V=E1zquez's short stories, essays and poetry have been published = in anthologies and periodicals in Latin America, Europe, Asia, the United States, and the Caribbean. She is the editor of the poetry series La Candelaria, a project member of Planet Society - UNESCO. Her book of poems, Las hembras, was published by Papeles del Andalic=F3n (Chile, 1987). In 1988, the Omar Rayo Museum of Columbia published La = rosa mec=E1nica in their chapbook series of women poets of Latin America, = while a new version of the same was published by Hurac=E1n (San Juan) in 1991. = Her chapbooks, El amor urgente, The Broken Heart, and Er=F3tica de bolsillo = were published in New York between 1995 and 1998. In 1999 she published a = short story collection, Historias de Pulgarcito, with Ediciones Cultural in San Juan; she also published De identidades: bibliograf=EDa de Mar=EDa Luisa Bemberg (Latin American Information Series, SALALM, 1999). Lourdes = V=E1zquez has lectured nationally and internationally on literature, women writers, film, popular culture, book arts, and feminism. She is a member of Pen American Center and The Poetry Project. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 00:04:06 +0000 Reply-To: anielsen@lmu.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anielsen@LMU.EDU Subject: Mackey Issue MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII The special issue of CALLALOO dedicated to Nathaniel Mackey just landed in the mail box, and Paul Naylor has done a wonderful job editing it. Unlike the smaller special sections of many past issues, this entire issue is Mackey, complete with underexposed photos of this underexposed artist. Not to be missed -- New material from Mackey, poems & scores dedicated to him, interview, and many good essays -- by the way -- for any of you who may have missed Mackey's extensive essay on Gassire's Lute and Robert Duncan's poetry when it first ran in TALISMAN, a healthy hunk of it reappears in READING RACE IN AMERICAN POETRY from U of Illinois Press. I mention this because it came out too late to be included in the fine bibliography that closes the CALLALOO issue. [we wanted to include all of the Duncan essay, but the outside readers, who seem never to be outside enough to appreciate my point of view, said no.] "Has All-- a Codicil?" -- Emily Dickinson Aldon Lynn Nielsen Fletcher Jones Chair of Literature and Writing Department of English Loyola Marymount University 7900 Loyola Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90045-8215 anielsen@lmu.edu (310) 338-3078 _________________________________________________ The simple way to read all your emails at ThatWeb http://www.thatweb.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 23:16:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: members of the POG Collective to read this Friday, 7pm, Dinnerware (!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit for immediate release (please feel free to print, xerox, and distribute this announcement: to classes or wherever) POG presents Members of the POG Collective Friday, Oct 13, 7pm, Dinnerware Gallery, 135 East Congress Readers will include Charles Alexander Elizabeth Landry Gene Lyman Allison Moore Tenney Nathanson Jesse Seldess Frances Shoberg Scott Stanley Debra White-Stanley suggested contribution: $5; students $3 POG events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council and the Arizona Commission on the Arts POG also benefits from the continuing support of The University of Arizona Extended University Writing Works Center, The University of Arizona Department of English, The University of Arizona Poetry Center, and the Arizona Quarterly for further information contact POG: 296-6416 tenney@azstarnet.com mailto:tenney@azstarnet.com mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:21:11 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: A Poetics Colloquium: Body/Sex/Writing - Comment R.Taylor. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rachel. I haven't seen the work, but its interesting the way technology or the products of technology (the pen and paper,the typewriter, and now the computer) interact with and influence how we write, and maybe its significannce. I like to "justify" my prose poems (which I id after I discovered that facility on a short comp. course.) Also I suppose this email form is significant. The message is (is it always?) the textual presentation. Or at least the two are hard to differentiate. Also the idea of WRAP - being of course a pun - is interesting. Heijinian talks about the role of desire. Its hard to pin those things down, but maybe there is an interaction of the pleasure we gain from language as poetry say and some erotic process. Obviously as what "makes us" is our drive to create and recreate, one might suppose a link. Or be certain of it.(?) Note that you've also introduced another multiple meaning in "marginally". But dont get too worried! These things happen! i'm sure the computer feels smug but you can always go back to pen and ink, to subvert the: what is it you wish to subvert? And can I ask why you adopted this method of witing? I was interested once inwriting a "sonata" or a "concerto" in a form that mimicked the way a musical score evolves (even maybe as Stokhaussen)...the old idea of a kind of "pure" poetry. But its just stayed as an idea. I'll look out for your colloquium contribution. Regards,Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rachel Blau DuPlessis" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 8:31 AM Subject: Re: A Poetics Colloquium: Body/Sex/Writing - > Dear Readers: when people get to Body/Sex/Writing 4.2 (mine), they might be > marginally amused to note that the notorious WRAP of computers did not allow it > to look the way "I" originally "intended" it to--that is, a line of sound > translation and a line of normative text just below (or was it above? which is > on top?), which just goes to show that the computer body of sex/writing had its > own ideas on the "subject" and did something beyond what "I" desired. That is, > the way my piece looks is an allegory of the unintended subversions of desire, > and for all "I" know, it might be better off the new-wrap way. affectionately, > Rachel (Blau DuPlessis) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 00:06:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lisa Adams Subject: our website Comments: To: Mammaroma@aol.com, mamzer22@hotmail.com, mancall@sirius.com, manicd@sirius.com, manuela@bigmouthad.com, manxome@hotmail.com, MarcoUg@aol.com, marcus_lopes@hotmail.com, marcyvaughn@email.msn.com, marilyn.ledoux@eng.sun.com, mark@wheelchairjunkie.com, markducharme@hotmail.com, markg@thestandard.com, MarlaBIs@aol.com, marleyk@sfsu.edu, marlis@well.com, MANGOLDSAR@aol.com, Marott@aol.com, MARSHALL@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU, martijn@vhamill.com, martygallanter@hotmail.com, mashabr@socrates.berkeley.edu, matesos@aol.com, MATEOREEF@aol.com, mattron6@aol.com, matt@vainglorious.com, matthart@dept.english.upenn.edu, mattkomoroski@NETSCAPE.NET, mattrudoff@earthlink.net, maxpaul@sfsu.edu, MAZ881@aol.com, MBaude@aol.com, Mbvk4ngp@aol.com, mcarter@sfsu.edu, mcbyer@earthlink.net, MCCARTHY@CUA.EDU, MCMe@pge.com, mcrane@igc.apc.org, md3059@mclink.it, MDCRONK@aol.com, meadowfire@cyberia.com, merce@sfsu.edu, MEDS002@UABDPO.DPO.UAB.EDU, megawilson@aol.com, melissaa@exploratorium.edu, melissastein@worldnet.att.net, MEPLEASANT@aol.com, MERRYWOLF@aol.com, merz@apple.com, MESTABR815@aol.com, MEWZING@aol.com, MFORMLIOS@aol.com, MGREEN@MAILHOST.ACCESSCOM.NET, mhernandez@gordonrees.com, mfriedman@haligmanlottner.com, mhernandez@gordonrees.com, michaelb@exploratorium.edu, michaeltavel@hotmail.com, michellek@solomonarchitecture.com, Michelle.L@worldnet.att.net, MICHELLEAP@aol.com, mike_topp@hotmail.com, mikemosh@well.com, MIKEVK@MICROSOFT.COM, miki@evenings.org, minka@grin.net, minusthemeat@hotmail.com, minx@concinnity.com, mirakove@earthlink.net, mkriebel@solomonarchitecture.com, mkruse@snowball.com, mlatiner@looksmart.net, MLHAUSER@aol.com, mlora10088@aol.com, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, mmuldoon@excite.com, mmurphy@earthlink.net, mmurphy@organic.com, MNIGHTFALL@aol.com, mollyruss@juno.com, Moosepolka@aol.com, mojoinoz@mindspring.com, mopehaus@hotmail.com, moriarty@lanminds.com, Moxley_Evans@compuserve.com, mperloff@earthlink.net, mprice@ncgate.newcollege.edu, mprice@newcollege.edu, mrdave@grin.net, msenger@well.com, msimon@cibnor.mx, msw4@is8.nyu.edu, MTIC@aol.com, murphym@earthlink.net, musick@netscape.com, mw8e@virginia.edu, MWEST@MWEST.COM, MYEHDZN@aol.com, myers89@fn5.freenet.tlh.fl.us, Marcela202@aol.com, MaryKDerr@aol.com, Mcfaust@aol.com, Melisa211@aol.com, Merwindow@aol.com, mike@ign.com, Mfranco34@aol.com, n6992724@buckscol.ac.uk, nachmann@hotmail.com, naob3@aol.com, Narkleptic@aol.com, natalia@hopechild.com, ndleaskou@yahoo.com, NENE@WAM.UMD.EDU, net@lanshark.lanminds.com, neurofibrillary@hotmail.com, nguyenhoa@hotmail.com, nhewitt@home.com, NICASTLE@aol.com, Nicole_Stefanko@pcworld.com, nicolerae@earthlink.net, nikos@sfsu.edu, ninplant@xs4all.nl, NinthLab@aol.com, nla_arts@sirius.com, NLEPERA@aol.com, nlynch@shore.intercom.net, normacole@aol.com, npdeluca@aol.com, nrbyram@mail.utexas.edu, NSMERITZMD@aol.com, NUYOPOMAN@aol.com, nybragraves@webtv.net, oeoeoe@usa.net, oday@sfsu.edu, ofaeon@yahoo.com, office@nationalpoetry.org, oh_me@hotmail.com, olivebee@yahoo.com, orchas@car8.com, ostashev@earthlink.net, oxygen@slip.net, paamos@alpha.wvup.wvnet.edu, Palmer@smwm.com, pamg1019@earthlink.net, pamlu@sirius.com, paul@dreamagic.com, paul@lfpl.org, paulk@LIBRARY.LIB.RMIT.EDU.AU, paulox@bastecnet.com.br, payhaydn@wtp.net, pbn@kvn.com, pboaz@sfgoodwill.org, pbody@inweb.net, Pdienst@aol.com, pdertien@ifn.net, pcmc@igc.apc.org, PBUTTS@EDCEN.EHHS.CMICH.EDU, PENSER111@aol.com, Per.Jotun@tn.his.no, PERBAND@aol.com, peter_balestrieri@intuit.com, Peter_Gizzi@macmail.ucsc.edu, petersm50@hotmail.com, petr_maule@siegereng.com, pgjacobsen@worldnet.att.net, phil.tougher@nessie.mcc.ac.uk, Picnicwish@aol.com, pierr@leland.stanford.edu, piertrust@btinternet.com, piggforg@ere.umontreal.ca, pittysing15@hotmail.com, PKG3@yahoo.com, pkmurray@sirius.com, pkowalke@mail.com, plasmalady@aol.com, pliska@haas.berkeley.edu, PLURALZ@aol.com, pny33@hotmail.com, poemz@mars.ark.com, potajemusic@yahoo.com, POETMUSE@aol.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jill Giegerich and Lisa Adams work as a collaborative art team called the apocalypse twins. Please check out our new website for current and future projects. Thank you. http://www.apocalypsetwins.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:12:21 -0600 Reply-To: Laura.Wright@Colorado.EDU Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wright Laura E Subject: Reading in Boulder: Amato, Fleisher, Wright MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Left Hand Reading Series for October will feature Joe Amato, Laura E. Wright, and Kass Fleisher. The reading takes place Thursday, October 19th at 8:00 p.m. in the V Room of the Dairy Center for the Arts, 2590 Walnut Street, Boulder, CO. The event is open to the public. Donations are requested. * For more information about the Left Hand Reading Series, call (303) 938-9346 or (303) 544-5854 * JOE AMATO is the author of Symptoms of a Finer Age (Viet Nam Generation, 1994), and Bookend: Anatomies of a Virtual Self (SUNY Press, 1997). His essays, poetry, and reviews have appeared in print and online, in such journals as Nineteenth Century Studies, Computers and Composition, Postmodern Culture, New American Writing, Jacket, milk, electronic book review, Crayon, Writing on the Edge, Denver Quarterly, and Voices in Italian Americana. His 1995 Storyspace hypertext, the kid who wanted to be a poet, is available free at his website. His most recent projects include a second collection of poetry, Lake Affect: Dated Material; a memoir detailing how he became a practicing engineer, No Outlet: An Engineer in the Works; and, in collaboration with his wife and partner Kass Fleisher and his friend Greg Hewett, two screenplays, None the Wiser and Good Fences. He teaches literature in the Department of English at the University of Colorado at Boulder. LAURA E. WRIGHT, poet and translator, once made a living as a classical musician and now works as a paraprofessional librarian. She has two published chapbooks (Where hunger is a place and Hide: what's difficult), and her work has appeared or will appear shortly in various journals including Facture, Skanky Possum, Kiosk, and Gas. She is still seeking a publisher for her translation of Henri Michaux's La vie dans les plis (Life in the folds). Other current occupations and obsessions include distance running, learning to play ice hockey, and building a house in the mountains above Boulder. Some day very soon she will have a dog. Laura is co-director of the Left Hand Reading Series. KASS FLEISHER's essays and reviews have appeared in Postmodern Culture, Z Magazine, American Book Review, and electronic book review, and her fiction has been awarded annual prizes from The Dickinson Review and Plainswoman. Recently completed book manuscripts include Accidental Species, a collection of fictions, and The Bear River Massacre and the Making of History, a non-fiction work. A northern Appalachian regional writer who has been completely displaced, she teaches women's and ethnic literatures as an adjunct at the University of Colorado in Boulder, in an absence of humidity. There will be a short Open Reading immediatedly before the featured readings. Sign up for the Open Reading will take place promptly at 8:00 p.m. * The LEFT HAND READING SERIES is an independent series presenting readings of original literary works by emerging and established writers. Founded in 1996 and originally sponsored by Boulder’s Left Hand Bookstore, the series is now curated by poets Mark DuCharme and Laura Wright. Readings in the series are presented monthly. The Left Hand Reading Series is funded in part by grants from the Boulder Arts Commission and the Arts and Humanities Assembly of Boulder County (AHAB). Upcoming events in the series include: THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 16th: ANDREW SCHELLING & PATRICK PRITCHETT ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:12:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Killian Subject: Tom Carey and Kevin Killian Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" If you are in San Francisco this Thursday (October 12) please come to Blue Books at 766 Valencia Street, between 18th and 19th, at 7:30 p.m. Tom Carey and I will be reading. Tom and I have written a new poem for the occasion. Thanks everyone. Kevin Killian ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 15:55:58 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jacques Debrot Subject: Colloquium MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Of course, Dodie's instigative short fiction was provocative enough. And Kevin's response, as usual, exhibited all of those qualities for which I've begun, increasingly, to admire (&, even, attempt to emulate him). But, on the whole, I think the colloquium fell flat because it isn't at all, frankly, as so many people on this List assume, the rhetoric of marginality--that is, the language of symptoms--that makes the body--or anything else-- dangerous. (In fact, we often seem too prone in our discussions, generally, to construct a facile "them" in order to accomodate a readymade "us".) Put another way, critique, as I've said before, isn't destabilizing. As a form of surveillance, critique is both expected and desired by the therapeutic bureaucracies of the university, the moderated List Serve, etc., etc. No surprise, then, either, that what was always missing in LP was, precisely, the *erotic*. In Scalapino, Harryman--or wherever you might think of looking to contradict me--there is an entropy at the scale of the body that is, in essence, erotically passive. And I couldn't help noticing, among other things, the same passivity at the heart of so many of the responses to the recent colloquium. --Jacques ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 10:36:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daisy Fried Subject: Seeking swarthmore alumni poets Comments: To: WOM-PO@listserv.muohio.edu, whpoets@english.upenn.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello. For an article for the Swarthmore alumni bulletin, I'm looking for poets who are Swarthmore College alums. I'm looking specifically for working poets who have at least some publication track record--in books and/or journals, or if the poems are more aural/performative/spoken word oriented, with a track record of performance... Thanks! Daisy Fried 811 S. Hutchinson St. Philadelphia, PA 19147 215.923.3158 daisyf1@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 13:47:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael amberwind Subject: Re: Moneylenders in the Temple MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The following is an exchange of recent emails I was involved in, with only the names removed to protect the innocent and the guilty. Question: Is it wrong to ask a person to buy a copy of their magazine or books to be considered for publication? It seems to me it is - I'd like to know what the rest of you think. It is this sort of thing that makes me want to renounce publishing. Let them worry about it after I die. ************************************************** I am writing you to request submission guidelines. I have recently completed a series of experimental poems titled "pseudomnemonicon" for which I am seeking a publisher. My publishing credits include Afterthoughts, Defiance!, Textshop and the online journals Stark Raving Sanity and Rockingchair.net. The book is available in .doc, .pub and .rtf formats if you accept email submissions. Thank you for your time. Sincerely, Michael Bogue > Submission Guidelines are in issue #5 > $5pp payable to ********** > > Be well > , Editor > > USA > > I do not buy issues for submission guidelines. I do not pay reading fees. I do not pay contest fees. I do not get subscriptions to be eligible for publication. Not for five dollars. Not for one dollar. It is wrong to do so and, in my view, though a common practise, unethical to ask it. No job I have ever applied for has expected me to pay them money, purchase their product, or buy their list of qualifications. I am scarcely able to afford postage. I receive far too many rejection letters, as does any writer, to be able to afford to purchase the works I seek to be published in. I asked you for submission guidelines, and, once again, I respectfully request them. Sincerely, Michael Bogue > The reason you receive so many rejections is > your belief that poetry is > an ego feeding proposition related around a > notion called "I" which > appears almost once in every sentence written. > For this reason we > recommend one of the following: > > 1. Start a literary journal in which you only > publish people other than > yourself. After you do this, send it & we'll > trade. > 2. Buy a book from a different press that will > help your current > condition. In Book One of Gunslinger by Ed Dorn > a character dies. For > free guidelines, send a photocopy of the cover > & do tell us who that > character is. > 3. Sell your computer or steal the one you are > using and sell it. Buy a > money order, send to the address below. > > Be well > Editor > > USA > > Though I am not averse to committing crimes for my art, I will need considerably more motivation than any you can provide. As for the Gunslinger, that's a book I've been looking for for a year - if I find it, I'll let you know. As to why my poems weren't published, it isn't because of my ego (which I admit is immense, though I take no shame in the fact) this is simply because I have followed the path of some of my favorite writers, all of whom accumulated vastly more rejection letters than I. More likely than not, it was simply that the poems were not very good. If ego were a cause for exclusion from a magazine, most the pages of most magazines and books for sale would be a lonely shade of white. As for starting my own magazine, I have considered this path, but rejected it. There is already a glut of magazines and publishers in my city, and I serve them better by writing for them than editing. Still, my point remains. None of the editors I know, from at least a half dozen small publications, would even think of making people buy an issue or pay a fee to be published, let alone guidelines. In fact, that is why many of them have some sort of web presence - to avoid that extra expense. Poetry has become - in my view - far too incestuous. It is supported and created almost entirely by the people who consume it. I see a number of causes for this - an indifferent public raised on television and internet, poets who are unambitious and publishing companies that expect their writers to support them - for which I see no immediate solution. However, I consider it unfeasible to expect your financial renumeration, even a part of it, come from the poets who write for it. This is a unique situation that exists nowhere else outside of poetry. However, all too often poets go along with it - accept it in their desire to be published. This is truly a pernicious use of ones ego, much worse than the use of the word "I" (or, even more falsely, "we")merely because it is common, even accepted. I withdraw my request for writer's guidelines. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:46:47 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jacques Debrot Subject: correction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/10/00 3:55:58 PM, JDEBROT writes: << the same passivity at the heart of so many of the responses to the recent colloquium >> Of course, I meant so many of the responses by the participants contributing to the colloquium. --Jacques ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 22:20:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Small Press Traffic Presents David Baratier & Chris Kraus Comments: cc: WOM-PO@listserv.muohio.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Friday, October 13, 2000 at 7:30 p.m. David Baratier & Chris Kraus David Baratier, in a rare visit to San Francisco, has been at the very heart of the Ohio poetry revolution for a good many years. They don=92t >call Ohio the Swing State for nothing. Baratier=92s poetry, pristine, >pared-down and sculpted to a fine deal finish, are sturdy squares of text, >a child=92s set of wooden Legos that propel class and dislocation halfway= to >the moon. David Baratier=92s poems are anthologized in American Poetry:= the >Next Generation, from Carnegie Mellon University Press and Clockpunchers: >Poetry of the American Workplace from Partisan Press. His collections >include A Run of Letters (Poetry New York, 1998) and The Fall Of Because >(Pudding House, 1999). An epistolary and prose novel In It What=92s in It >will be released by Spuyten Duyvil in 2001. He is a Leo, born in 1970, >and the founder and editor of Pavement Saw Press. > >Chris Kraus writes as if there=92s a hellhound on her trail. I can hear= her >panting now as she ducks for cover in the mangrove swamps of the terrified >human heart. Protean, prolific, inexhaustible, Kraus is the author of >Aliens & Anorexia (Semiotexte/Smart Art Press, 2000) and I Love Dick >(Semiotexte, 1997). Kraus is the founding editor of Semiotexte's Native >Agents new fiction series. Her writing has recently been anthologized in >Sande Cohen's French Theory in America (Routledge, 2000), Sophie Jerram's >Posted Love (Penguin, 2000) and Susan Kandel's Cream (Phaidon, 1999). In >1996, Kraus organized =93The Chance Event=973 Days in the Desert=94 with= Jean >Baudrillard, Rosanne Alluqere Stone and DJ Spooky, and in 1999, she >co-organized =93The Madness of Truth,=94 a tribute to Simone Weil, at= Columbia >University. She writes a regular column for Art/Text magazine. She lives >in Los Angeles and teaches at Art Center. > >Timken Lecture Hall >California College of Arts and Crafts >1111 Eighth Street, San Francisco (just off the intersection of 16th & >Wisconsin) >$5 > > > >PLEASE NOTE OUR NEW ADDRESS, EMAIL, & PHONE NUMBER: > >small press traffic=20 >literary arts center >at ccac >1111 Eighth Street >San Francisco, California 94107 >http://www.sptraffic.org >smallpress@ccac-art.edu >415/703-9278 > PLEASE NOTE WE WILL START AT 7:45 PM PROMPTISHLY ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 22:26:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: looking for... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" emails for Brydie McPherson and Kaia Sand. Please b/c ___________________________________________ Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page2.html ___________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 13:59:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: levitsk@ATTGLOBAL.NET Subject: Tejada/Levitsky--2 Happy 2 Leroy Comments: To: "Undisclosed Recipients"@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Double Leroy, Double Happiness --- Rachel Levitsky (Cartographies of Error) & Roberto Tejada (Gift & Verdict) Ask you to please come see us read at ** SEGUE at DOUBLE HAPPINESS ** October 14, 2000 4:00 pm At Chinatown's beautiful & altogether unmarked ** Double Happiness ** 173 Mott Street corner of Broome Down the dark stairs ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 11:54:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik Frank Van Zant Frank Van Zant (veezee@staffordnet.com) sent us this little electoral reminder. 5-4 5 is a hand, the fingers extended, pressing together, the hand swinging, with historical impunity, slapping a woman, 5 is laughter, a scorned suffragette 5 is Separate But Equal born again, five Jim Crows squawking and fighting, tearing at flesh 5 is George Wallace standing in front of a school, Dred Scott revisited 5 is three fifths of a person, 5 is a land-owning white, male, h-e-t-e-r-o-s-e-x-u-a-l 5 is relocation camps, reservations The Trail of Tears, Sand Creek 5 is The Only Good Homosexual Is A Dead Homosexual 5 is the reasoning of This Is Why This Kind Of Person Deserves banishment, punishment, retribution from God’s eyes through man’s justified hands, the original weapons, closed like a mind or policy, fists for delivering a settled argument 5 is a firing squad, ethnic cleansing a pentacle, a satan star Frank van Zant ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 00:53:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Cunningham Subject: Re: What Jakobson got wrong about metalanguage In-Reply-To: <50.b944179.270a4fbe@cs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" George, Your reply just about sums up what I was thinking as I read Harold Teichman's challenging and intensely intelligent post--simply put that expanding, recontextualizing, even modifying a term like metalanguage for uses outside its original boundaries is what a good linguist, good thinker, good theorist, good poet does. At the same time I do recognize that this may be an especially poetic and non-positivist view of the matter (after all isn't intervention in terminological sanctity sometimes considered the political arm of our sweet poesy?). However don't you think Teichman raised a more suggestive point, especially in the following: >Jakobson cites Tarski and Carnap as >authors/authorities to back him up, but he demonstrates _no_ >acquaintance with and exposes none of the subtle and difficult technical >philosophical context of their discourse. He doesn’t say something like >"I don’t understand Tarski’s paper, but I’m going to borrow his term and >use it informally as follows"; rather he gives the reader the impression >that there’s no discontinuity between his and Tarski’s use of the term. What you don't seem to respond to, and what I would love to hear you respond to, is the implied question as to why Jakobson would need to *himself* connect the term back to formal logic via references to Tarski and Carnap. If formal logic and philosophy are some other subject, not relevant here (i.e. you say he is a linguist and should be judged as a linguist), why does J. not invent a new term, to be purely understood within linguistics? As his dear hero was Khlebnikov surely the idea of a neologism would have occured to him? Were other early linguists also borrowing the term, and was J. building off that? Perhaps you'll find this a side question of philosophical etymology, better restricted to the history of science(s). I see the point in wanting to focus on the specifics of what the term accomplished (not to mention what it actually means in J.'s understanding as probably most on the list are shakey on this ground, me especially) but its genesis is also inescapably relevant don't you think? Of course a linguist or anyone else has a right, shall we say, to use terms in new ways, especially if other linguists accept the use and find it meaningful (I trust you that this is the case), but it doesn't answer the profound question as to what kinds of models linguistics was using to construct itself as a relatively new science (models that are presumably now "internalized" in us as "natural," just as the language code is). What did J. wish to accomplish by connecting linguistics to formal logic? Could he have called metalanguage "stage directions," or used a number of other reflexive models from the arts, commerce, nature, etc.? If not why not? If so why didn't he? If J. had been a sports fan might we be calling metalanguage "broadcasting" (as opposed to "playing")? Doesn't J.'s later use of the code/message terminology open the same can of worms, or is it a different can? Much praise and thanks to both of you for the discussion, by the way. Brent Cunningham At 04:53 PM 10/2/00 EDT, you wrote: >While the List silently ponders its bodies and sexes, I will preoccupy >myself, mentally and bodily and wordily too, with a reply to Harold Teichman, >about what Jakobson got right about metalanguage. > >HT and I have had a brief conversation about Jakobson offlist, and it became >clear, I think to both of us, that our disagreements can be attributed to the >difference in our perspectives. As HT nicely demonstrates in his post, he is >a philosopher interested in philosophy, and, in this thread, in metalanguage >as it is used by the likes of Tarski. HT shows us how the term is used in >philosophy and formal logic. Fine. > >But Jakobson is a linguist and in my view should be judged as a linguist. >His use of the term 'metalanguage' in linguistics is widely accepted by >linguists [should I trot out a bunch of refs, or will you all trust me on >this?]. And it has been very fruitful. The point is that J is not looking >at the semantics of formal logic. He is looking at a type of linguistic >behavior that can be identified not only in the behavior of trained linguists >[never mind trained philosophers] but also in the behavior of ordinary >untrained people, like ordinary and even language poets. > >Now, what is metalinguistic behavior? It is exactly what J says it is: it is >the use of one language [the meta-l] to talk about another language [the >object-l]; it can also be seen in the use of a language to talk about that >very language: English to talk about English, etc. 2500 years ago, the >Sanskrit grammarians invented a rigorous metalanguage to talk about Sanskrit: >it consisted of some Sanskrit words, and Skt syntax, morphology, and >phonology, etc., but with the addition of a set of metalinguistic [auditory, >non-visual] markers that was invented for the sake of clarity and conciseness >-- this was still a largely oral, pre-lierate culture. Well, I won't go into >how much more impressed I am by them than by, say, Wittgenstein. That's a >sidetrack. > >Jakobson has taught us to see metalanguage in everyday discourse. Look, it >is prominent in the language behavior of children, in fact much more >prominent in them than in most adults [except for the occasional eccentrics >like poets and other lovers of words]. Look at the pre-linguistic babble of >your children in their cribs. The ba-ba-ba, ma-ma-ma stuff. Well, it is on >one level clear exploratory phonology. But it is also a metalinguistic >exploration of the range of the meaningful sound-units [phonemes] of the >speech-community that the child finds herself surrounded by, immersed in. >Look at your toddlers. Look at all of the little word-substitutions that >they busy themselves with: that is metalanguage at play. A lot of what used >to pass as "grammar" in school was really a rudimentary form of >metalinguistic analysis of the language that teachers are trying still to get >us to master. Look at the knock-knock jokes and 'who am I?' riddles that >your kids like to play. Their steady popularity is a measure of the >metalinguistic interests of children. > >Metalanguage is in constant operation in foreign language classes that you >encourage your kids to take. To a great extent, I view my own college career >as nothing but a series of new metalinguistic exercises. Etc. etc. etc. > >Kids are more preoccupied with metalinguistic games etc. than their parents >precisely because they are trying to come to grips with that code that HT >doubts exists. Well, most adults have stopped thinking about the code, and >now they doubt that it exists, because they have internalized it and it >operates in them without any assistence from them whatsoever. It is all >perfectly 'natural' until something comes along to disrupt its smooth >unconscious operation. I would guess that most of us on this list are also, >like the kids, intensely interested in the disruptions of that unconscious >operation in us. I know that many of you are because I have seen it in your >writing. > >Well, what about poetry and metalanguage? Two entirely different operations. >I don't want to confuse the two. But poetics is a sub-branch of >metalinguistics from my point of view. > >I have written papers on the verbal contests, riddle contests and poetic >bragging contests, of old Vedic poetry. It is clear that in most poetic >traditions of the world, the person who gravitates toward poetry also >gravitates toward metalanguage, as well as what I would call >proto-linguistics. This has to do with the material that they work with, >their words, of course. > >I read language poetry as a kind of poetry that is preoccupied with >metalanguage. But then again a lot of other poetry is preoccupied in that >too. Of course, I've gotten all of this into my head from thinking about J's >take on metalanguage for a very long time. > >Well, I've gone on too long. > >Perhaps Jonathan and Harold and I can come to see alike on this. > >George Thompson > >[p.s. Here's an example of metalinguistic humor that I found in a book by >Steven Pinker: > >A woman gets into a taxi in Boston's Logan airport and asks the driver, "Can >you take me someplace where I can get scrod?" He says, "Gee, that's the >first time I've heard it in the pluperfect subjunctive." See, even cab >drivers do it!] > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 11:12:28 -0500 Reply-To: jlm8047@louisiana.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerry McGuire Organization: USL Subject: update--Deep South Festival of Writers Comments: To: Luis Urrea , Karen Ford , LWilson213 , Kevin Murphy , MANNY SELVIN , Kathy Ptacek , kevin johnson , marcia gaudet , Marie Plasse , Mark Nowak , Mary Cappello , Mary Cotton , Michael and Charisse Floyd , Michael Mandel , miki nilan , murray schwartz , Mary Hillier Sewell , louisiana , Libby Nehrbass , mary tutwiler , Marcella Durand , L V Sadler , Larry Anderson , Norman German , michael hansen , Marvin Douglass , "lynn a. powers" , mike schultz , Karen Meinardus , Nancy Dawn Van Beest , McAdoo Greer , M Butz , Louis Gallo , lynne castille , Martha Metrailer , Mary Alice Cook , Linda M Schopper , Kevin Murphy , lila walker , Maura Gage , Kathy Gruver , mary gannon , "lisa d. williamson" , linette fink , Michael Cervin , Karleen Wooley , "Melinda M. Sorensson" , Kathy Ball , Linda Faulkner , "MARGWAT@aol.com" , "Lenore B." , "Leigh, Lori B." , Kim Alan Pederson <", morgan landry , Lynda O'Connor , Robin and Charles Weber , Robley Hood , Rosalind Foley , Sean McFadden , Shawn Moyer , Staci Swedeen , Stephen Doiron , Steve Wilson , Tim Smith , Timothy Materer , Pamela Kirk Prentice , Patty Ryan , paul maltby , rlehan , Steve Barancik , Randy Prunty , Rogan Stearns , "Sean H. O'Leary" , Robert Brophy , Staci Bleecker , rita hiller , Stacey Bowden , Suzanne Mark , ralph stephens , Tatiana Stoumen , Todd Nettleton , Patrice Melnick , Pat McFerren , Sara Wallace , Sandy Labry , Richard Crews , susan middaugh , Rhonda Blanchard , "Tammy D. Harvey" , Tana Bradley , richelle putnam , Suzette Rodriguez , "t. c. williams" , Sam Broussard , Steven Gridley , ted enik , ron osborne , Susan Maclean , "Shreken@aol.com" , paige deshong , Walt McDonald , Wendell Mayo , William Ryan , William Sylvester , Zach Smith , William Pitt Root and Pamela Uschuk , Writers' Forum , "Whitten, Phyllis" , wiselist , walter pierce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here are two special events newly scheduled for this year's Deep South Festival of Writers. Please note dates and times. (1) PRESS RELEASE : October 1, 2000 "EX-LIBRIS " BOOK PLATES EXHIBITIONS ARE FOR BOOKLOVERS AND ARTLOVERS A remarkable collection of "Ex Libris" artworks will be exhibited in Lafayette at two gallery spaces opening Wednesday, October 11, on the UL Lafayette campus, and Saturday, October 14, at the Moore Studio downtown. These exhibitions are part of the Deep South Festival of Writers (Oct.-12-15, UL Lafayette campus) and Second Saturday Artwalk Event (downtown Lafayette, Jefferson Street). Ex-libris (Latin for "the books of") plates are designed by artists, often commissioned for public or private libraries and placed inside books to identify the collector or collection. They are original works of art in editions, relatively small, with great detail. The prints are usually woodcarvings, etchings, or lithographs and often present both the secular and religious folklore of various cultures. These contemporary and vintage prints are from the extensive collection of Dr. Remo Palmirani, founder of the Ex Libris Association, and scholar and medical doctor from Bologna, Italy. Dr. Palmirani has been collecting ex-libris during his travels for over 35 years. Artists are represented from Italy, Morocco, Turkey, Spain, England, Israel, Belgium, Greece, Russia, and France. Dr. Palmirani will speak about his collection and the history of Ex-Libris during a free lecture to be held Wednesday October 11 , 3:00 pm in 134 Flechter Hall on the UL Lafayette campus. Following the presentation there will be a reception in the Dean's Gallery, College of the Arts. This collection will include rare ex libris of renowned artists (Magritte, Mucha, Mondrian, , Beardsley, Cocteau, Escher, Tinguely, Botta, etc.) and contemporary works. The second exhibition will open October 14, 6-9 pm, during the Second Saturday Artwalk Event at Moore Gallery at 515 Jefferson Street. The theme of this collection, titled *Masonic Ex-Libris*, illuminates the symbols and secret history of the Masons. These two collections of Ex Libris reveal a rich tradition in linking art with literature. The project is supported by a grant from the Louisiana Division of the Arts, Office of Cultural Development, Department of Culture, Recreation and Tourism in cooperation with the Louisiana State Arts Council as administered by the Acadiana Arts Council. For more information please contact Lynda Frese at 337-482-5773 or Jerry McGuire at 337-482-5478. (2) At the end of Deep South, Sunday, October 15th around 1:00 p.m., all interested parties are invited to a short meeting concerning a proposal by the Louisiana Center for the book to sponsor a Louisiana Writers Network, an initiative intended to connect writers in Louisiana with one another, with the Center for the book, and with the Division of the Arts to help in the gathering and dissemination of information of interest to writers. The meeting will be very short. I’ll hand out a questionnaire provided by the Center for the Book, and I’ll also gather any questions you may have about the proposed writers’ network to pass on to Rod Mills, the Director of the Center. I look forward to seeing you there. Jerry McGuire -- ________________________________________________________ Jerry McGuire Director of Creative Writing English Department Box 44691 University of Louisiana at Lafayette Lafayette LA 70504-4691 337-482-5478 ________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:20:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Archambeau Subject: Michael Heller in Chicago MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Michael Heller will be giving a talk for the Chicago Seminar in Poetics at 7:00 pm on Tuesday, October 18th at 901 West Jackson (Jackson and Peoria) He will also be giving a reading the following night at 7:00 pm at Meyer Auditorium, Lake Forest College The Seminar should be particularly fun -- and drinks will be available afterward. Come out and toast one of America's best poets! --Robert Archambeau ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 22:33:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: New @ durationpress.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Three new additions to our out of print book archive... The Garden of Effort Keith Waldrop Lawn of Excluded Middle Rosmarie Waldrop Pollux Pam Rehm all can be found @ www.durationpress.com/archives ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 02:55:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Stephen Cope Subject: New Writing Series @ UCSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" ANNOUNCING: UCSD NEW WRITING SERIES: FALL 2000 SCHEDULE: OCTOBER 25: Bill Luoma & Juliana Spahr NOVEMBER 1: Gail Scott NOVEMBER 9: Jack Foley and Adelle Foley NOVEMBER 15: Steve Benson NOVEMBER 21: Eileen Myles NOVEMBER 29: Jennifer Moxley All events take place at 4:30pm at the Visual Arts Performance Space (located in the center of the Visual Arts Complex on Russell Lane, UCSD) All events are free and open to the public. e-mail: scope@ucsd.edu for more information. _______________________________ o Wednesday, October 25 BILL LUOMA & JULIANA SPAHR Bill Luoma is a poet whose work ranges from narrative autobiography to sound poetry. His books of poetry include _Swoon Rocket_ and _My Trip to New York City_ (The Figures, 1996/1994), and visual poetry on the web (http://www.ubu.com and http://www2.hawaii.edu~luoma). He lives in Honolulu, Hawaii and works in the computer industry. Juliana Spahr is the author of _Response_ (Sun and Moon) and a forthcoming collection from Wesleyan University Press that may or may not be titled _Fuck You-Aloha-I Love You_" Her book of critical essays, _Everybody's Autonomy_, was published by the University of Alabama Press. ________________ o Wednesday, November 1: GAIL SCOTT Gail Scott is one of Canada's most heralded novelists. _My Paris_ was named one of the 10 best novels published in Canada in 1999, and her novel before that was named as one of the 10 best Montreal novels of the century. She has also published a collection of essays about women and writing, _Sprare Parts_. She lives in Montreal where she teaches and works as a literary translator. ________________ o Thursday, November 9: JACK FOLEY & ADELLE FOLEY Jack Foley is an innovative poet and passionate critic. His five books of poetry include _Adrift_ (1993) and a collaboration with Ivan Arguelles, _New Poetry from California: Dead / Requiem_ (1998). Foley's critical volumes, _O Powerful Western Star_ and _Foley's Books: California Rebels, Beats, and Radicals_ have been praised as "galvanizing." For a dozen years he has hosted a poetry show on KPFA/Berkeley. Adelle Foley's collection of haiku, "Along the Bloodline," is forthcoming in 2000. She lives and performs her work in Berkeley, where she writes a newspaper column, _High Street Neighborhood News_. ________________ o Wednesday, November 15: STEVE BENSON Steve Benson is often identified as a seminal member of the West Coast branch of Language Writing. His work and published texts have often involved the process of oral improvisation. His collections of poetry from the past quarter-century include _As Is_ (The Figures, 1978), _Blue Book_ (The Figures/Roof, 1988), _Reverse Order_ (Potes & Poets, 1989), and _Roaring Spring_ (1999). He is a visiting faculty member at UCSD this quarter, and lives in Downeast, Maine. ________________ o Tuesday, November 21: EILEEN MYLES Eileen Myles is a fiction writer as well as a poet. Her novel, _Cool for You_, is out this fall from Soft Skull Press, and she also has two collections from Black Sparrow Press, _Chelsea Girls_ (1994) and _School of Fish_ (1997). Her books of poetry include _Not Me_ (Semiotexte, 1991) and _Sappho's Boat_ (Little Caesar, 1982). She was Artistic Director of the St. Mark's Poetry Project in New York City from 1984-1986. ________________ o Wednesday, November 29: JENNIFER MOXLEY Jennifer Moxley is a poet whose collections include _Imagination Verses_ (Tender Buttons, 1996), as well as a pair of chapbooks published in England: _Wrong Life_ (Equipage, 1999) and _Enlightenment Evidence_ (Rem*press, 1996). She founded and edited _The Impercipient_, as well as _The Impercipient Lecture Series_, a monthly poetics pamplet. She is currently the poetry editor for _The Baffler_, and lives in Orono, Maine, where she works as a typesetter for the National Poetry Foundation. ________________________________ The New Writing Series is supported by generous funding from UCSD Arts and Humanities, University Events, and the Literature Department. *Note: if you wish to be removed from this list, please send a message to scope@ucsd.edu asking that you be removed. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 06:34:25 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu Subject: Fw: Snap, seeking submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Snap is a new series of short, sharp broadside series to focus on > prairie-based poetry, edited by Duncan Anderson. Submissions of > visual/concrete pieces, or poems of no more than thirty lines, can be > submitted to snap_alberta@hotmail.com > When submitting, please include a short bio note, as well as a snail mail > address. > > Please forward this to anyone you think might be interested. > > Duncan Anderson, Edmonton ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 11:32:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kyle Conner Subject: HIGHWIRE READING 10/21 Comments: To: CAConrad13@hotmail.com, cx321@hotmail.com, fhaeussl@astro.ocis.temple.edu, greg@fmtad.com, hannahjs@sas.upenn.edu, louischw@prodigy.net, MacPoet1@aol.com, malavech2@aol.com, marjh@altavista.com, morillo673@aol.com, abdalhayy@aol.com, aberrigan@excite.com, abirge@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, agil@erols.com, allison_cobb@edf.org, ALPlurabel@aol.com, amorris1@swarthmore.edu, Amossin@aol.com, apr@libertynet.org, avraham@sas.upenn.edu, ayperry@aol.com, Babsulous@aol.com, baratier@megsinet.net, bcole@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, bdowns@columbiabooks.com, Becker@law.vill.edu, bette343@hotmail.com, BMasi@aol.com, bochner@prodigy.net, booglit@excite.com, BrianJFoley@aol.com, BStrogatz@aol.com, cahnmann@dolphin.upenn.edu, charleswolski@hotmail.com, chris@bluefly.com, Chrsmccrry@aol.com, coryjim@earthlink.net, Cschnei978@aol.com, daisyf1@juno.com, danedels@sas.upenn.edu, dburnham@sas.upenn.edu, dcpoetry@mailcity.com, DennisLMo@aol.com, DROTHSCHILD@penguinputnam.com, dsilver@pptnet.com, dsimpson@netaxs.com, ejfugate@yahoo.com, ekeenagh@astro.ocis.temple.edu, eludwig@philadelphiaweekly.com, ENauen@aol.com, ErrataBlu@aol.com, esm@vm.temple.edu, Feadaniste@aol.com, fleda@odin.english.udel.edu, Forlano1@aol.com, FPR@history.upenn.edu, fuller@center.cbpp.org, GasHeart@aol.com, gbiglier@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, gmarder@hotmail.com, gnawyouremu@hotmail.com, goodwina@xoommail.com, HighwireGallery@aol.com, hstarr@dept.english.upenn.edu, hthomas@Kutztown.edu, icepalace@mindspring.com, insekt@earthlink.net, ivy2@sas.upenn.edu, jeng1@earthlink.net, jennifer_coleman@edf.org, jimstone2@juno.com, jjacks02@astro.ocis.temple.edu, JKasdorf@mcis.messiah.edu, JKeita@aol.com, jlutt3@pipeline.com, jmasland@pobox.upenn.edu, JMURPH01@email.vill.edu, johnfattibene@juno.com, josman@astro.ocis.temple.edu, jschwart@thunder.ocis.temple.edu, jvitiell@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, jwatkins@unix.temple.edu, kelly@dept.english.upenn.edu, Kjvarrone@aol.com, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, kristing@pobox.upenn.edu, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, kzeman@sas.upenn.edu, lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu, lcary@dept.english.upenn.edu, leo@isc.upenn.edu, lgoldst@dept.english.upenn.edu, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, llisayau@hotmail.com, lorabloom@erols.com, lsoto@sas.upenn.edu, MARCROB2000@hotmail.com, marf@netaxs.com, matthart@english.upenn.edu, Matthew.McGoldrick@ibx.com, mbmc@op.net, Measurelvis@aol.com, melodyjoy2@hotmail.com, mgpiety@drexel.edu, mholley@brynmawr.edu, michaelmccool@hotmail.com, miyamorik@aol.com, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, mnichol6@osf1.gmu.edu, mollyruss@juno.com, mopehaus@hotmail.com, MTArchitects@compuserve.com, mytilij@english.upenn.edu, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, nawi@citypaper.net, odonnell@siam.org, penwaves@mindspring.com, pla@sas.upenn.edu, poetry4peeps@hotmail.com, putnamc@washpost.com, QDEli@aol.com, rachelmc@sas.upenn.edu, rdupless@vm.temple.edu, rediguanas@erols.com, repohead@rattapallax.com, richardfrey@dca.net, robinh5@juno.com, ron.silliman@gte.net, SeeALLMUSE@aol.com, sernak@juno.com, Sfrechie@aol.com, singinghorse@erols.com, stewart@dept.english.upenn.edu, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu, susan.wheeler@nyu.edu, SusanLanders@yahoo.com, swalker@dept.english.upenn.edu, Ron.Swegman@mail.tju.edu, Tasha329@aol.com, tdevaney@brooklyn.cuny.edu, thorpe@sas.upenn.edu, travmar03@msn.com, twells4512@aol.com, upword@mindspring.com, v2139g@vm.temple.edu, vhanson@netbox.com, vmehl99@aol.com, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, wvanwert@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, wwhitman@libertynet.org, ywisher@hotmail.com, zurawski@astro.temple.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HIGHWIRE READINGS NOW AT LA TAZZA 108 Chestnut Street, Philadelphia in Old City between 2nd and Front Stre= ets Every other Saturday @ 6:30 PM October 21 Alicia Askenase and Charles Borkhuis Alicia Askenase curates the readings at the Walt Whitman Center on Rutge= rs University campus in Camden, NJ. Charlse Borkhuis has two new books available, Mouth of Shadows (Spuyten Duyvil Press, 2000) and Alpha Ruins= (Bucknell University Press, 2000). November 4 Ixnay Magazine Benefit for Issue 5 The bash for the new issue will certainly be a tasty affair. The editors= , Chris and Jenn McCreary, are keeping the poets/performers anonymous unti= l further notice. Keep your ears to the ground. November 18 Don Riggs and Wendy Kramer Don Riggs is the man behind many Philadelphia contemporary writers. Wend= y Kramer reads from sculptures she makes out of found materials. December 2 Fran Ryan and Prageeta Sharma Fran Ryan is writing a book literally about the politics of labor and figuratively about Philadelphia trash workers. Prageeta Sharma=92s Bliss= To Fill (Subpress, 2000) is one of the hottest selling books on the Subpres= s list. Don=92t miss her. December 16 Janet Mason and Anselm Berrigan Janet Mason will make you crack up laughing and send you home thinking. Anselm Berrigan is our holiday gift for you, our faithful followers. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:36:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dickison Subject: CHRIS KRAUS & MIKE AMNASAN at The Poetry Center, Thurs Oct 12, 4:30 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable POETRY CENTER 2000 The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives presents Afternoon reading: innovative new fiction from CHRIS KRAUS & MIKE AMNASAN Thursday afternoon October 12, 4:30 pm, free @ The Poetry Center, SFSU CHRIS KRAUS's books-_Aliens & Anorexia_ and _I Love Dick_-transgress all typical notions of fiction, bending writing to the demands and purposes of life itself in the process. _Aliens & Anorexia_ (Semiotext(e)/Smart Art, 2000) combines passion and polemic in a philosophically sophisticated rejection of cultural cynicism. "From the end of the world-New Zealand-to Los Angeles, Africa and Berlin, past attempted escapes through the body's tunnels and telephone wires, Gravity is the true heroine of this very serious comedy" (Fanny Howe). Ms. Kraus edits Semiotext(e)'s Native Agents series of books. A filmmaker as well as writer, she lives in Los Angeles. MIKE AMNASAN's new novel _Beyond the Safety of Dreams_ was just published by Krupskaya Books. "It is the most painfully honest writing I have read in a long time," writes Tom Beckett, "a book of revelations about alienation and abjection, a disturbing account of one man's struggle to find a way to feel at home in an inhospitable world." As a playwright, Mr. Amnasan has had presented in staged readings in the Bay Area his dramatic works _Revery_ , _Unfair Play_ and _The Poet Killer_. He lives in San =46rancisco, where he recently completed his B.A. at SFSU on a scholarship from Sheet Metal Workers Local #104. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D THE POETRY CENTER is located in Humanities 512 on the SW corner of the San Francisco State University Campus, 1600 Holloway Avenue 2 blocks west of 19th Avenue on Holloway take MUNI's M Line to SFSU or from Daly City BART free shuttle or 28 bus =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Readings that take place at The Poetry Center are free of charge. The Poetry Center's programs are supported by funding from Grants for the Arts-Hotel Tax Fund of the City of San Francisco, the California Arts Council, the National Endowment for the Arts, Poets & Writers, Inc., and The Fund for Poetry, as well as by the College of Humanities at San =46rancisco State University, and by donations from our members. Join us! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ vox 415-338-3401 ~ fax 415-338-0966 http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 13:19:55 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: GasHeart@AOL.COM Subject: Philly: Theater, Music, Film - Issue 35 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 1. special movie today (sunday 10/8, 6:30pm) only, The Sargossa Manuscript,=20 Jerry Garcia=92s favorite movie, very surreal/bizarre, a must see (see below= ) 2. really really funny show on tv weekdays at 1:30 pm, Get a Life 3. King Crimson lineup correction, without tony levin and bill bruford,=20 11/16, 11/17 4. The Spiral Q=92s PEOPLEHOOD: An All City Parade and Pageant, 10/28 5. Girl Energy Performance Group, Seeks Performers 6. van gogh at the art museum - oct 18 till january 7. Rhinoceros - a play by absurdist french writer, Ionesco 11/1- 11/19 8. don=92t forget to vote, penna. is a swing state , actually go vote i support gore (-josh), (also Klink in, Santorum out, in the senate race) 9. The Greater Philadelphia Cultural Alliance has a listing of jobs in the=20 arts, and a northern liberties artists=92 opening, 5:00- 6:30, 10/12 10. Tune in for Live at the Writers House "Best of Philly 2000" on Sunday,=20 10/15, 11:00 PM , 88.5 FM 11. Spectres of the Spectrum, a film made from stock footage, mon., 10/30, a= t=20 The Prince Theater, 7:00 and 9:15 12. New Groovy Cafe, Cosmos Cafe, 615 s. 3rd st., free music saturdays at 8:= 30 13. gate to moonbase alpha. saturday october 21. 8pm-midnight, free ____________________________________________________ 1. special movie today (sunday 10/8, 6:30pm) only, The Sargossa Manuscript,=20 Jerry Garcia=92s favorite movie, very surreal/bizarre, a must see, at the=20 Prince Music Theater 1412 Chesnut St. i saw this and it is waaaaay out, a story within a story within a story....i= t=20 is 3 hours long and in black and white cinemascope.....the film was lost for= =20 years, but recontructed to its original, with the help of coppola and=20 scorcese, it was never officially released in the united states and is not=20 available on video, =93the holy grail for film buffs=94 -josh _____________________________________________________ 2. really really funny show on tv weekdays at 1:30 pm, Get a Life it=92s been off for so long, but it=92s back and hilarious, tongue in cheek.= it=20 features chris elliot, and his dad is bob of =93bob and ray=94, the great co= medy=20 team from the 50=92s. only for you if you have cable....on usa channel (chan= nel=20 5 for me) monday to friday at 1:30pm=20 -josh _____________________________________________________ 3. King Crimson lineup correction, without tony levin or bill bruford, 11/16= ,=20 11/17 and i hear they don=92t do their oldies, but that they still rock at the TLA, $35 _____________________________________________________ 4. The Spiral Q=92s PEOPLEHOOD: An All City Parade and Pageant, 10/28 The Spiral Q Puppet Theater 1307 Sansom St. #3 Philadelphia Pa 19107-4523 spiralq@critpath.org 215-545-2127, Mattyboy Hart PLEASE DISTRIBUTE WIDELY FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: =20 PEOPLEHOOD: An All City Parade and Pageant On Saturday, October 28th, Spiral Q Puppet Theater will hold its 5th Annual=20 year end event. Formerly known as the Day of the Dead: Celebration and=20 Parade, the event has been renamed PEOPLEHOOD: AN ALL CITY PARADE AND=20 PAGEANT, to more clearly reflect the nature of this exuberant and uniquely=20 performative event. The central theme of honoring those who have passed has= =20 been expanded to encompass and celebrate the myriad of rich cultural=20 histories in the neighborhoods of Philadelphia. As the culmination of=20 SpiralQs neighborhood residencies this event is the ecstatic forum for all=20 people to celebrate our difference in a boisterous cacophony involving=20 homemade masquerade, giant puppets, stiltdancers, fire breathers and more in= =20 thestreets of West Philly... WHO: Spiral Q Puppet Theater in collaboration with the West Philadelphia Cultural Alliance, University City Arts League The Bicycle Coalition of =20 Delaware Valley, Neighborhood Bike Works and The Bike Church, Asian American= s=20 United, Village of Arts and Humanities, Girard Medical Center and more every= =20 day! WHAT: A participatory giant-puppet parade starting from The Paul Robeson House Museum and Library (PRH) @ 4951 Walnut Street will loop through West=20 Philadelphia to Clark Park, where the Pageant of Neighborhoods and other=20 festivities will take place. WHEN: Saturday, October 28,2000 at 3:00 pm (Raindate Sunday, October 29) WHERE PAGEANT: Clark Park, on Chester Avenue between 43rd and 45th Streets 4:00pm PARADE: 4951 Walnut Street, 3pm STUDIOS: Studios open to the public to build giant puppets will be held every weekend for the month of October at The Spiral Q Puppet Theater, 1307 Sansom Street, from 11-6 both Saturday and Sunday. Additionally, a West Philadelphia studio site will be operational. Call for more information and studio locations. Background Spiral Q Puppet Theater held its annual Day of the Dead Celebration and Parade in the commercial district of South Street for three years, creating=20= a=20 vibrant atmosphere of spectacle and pageantry that drew thousands of people=20 to the area. Since that time, as Spiral Q and the Day of the Dead have=20 grown, a new focus has emerged. Central to Spiral Qs work is a vision of=20 people from all around the city parading in their own neighborhoods with art= =20 and puppets made by them about their lives today. Spiral Q works in=20 collaboration with dozens of community groups and agencies to bring giant=20 puppet parades and park pageants to neighborhoods all over the city. =20 At the end of a season of smaller neighborhood parades, these groups all com= e=20 together as delegates from their own neighborhoods to participate in an=20 emerging Urban Arts Democracy celebrating life in Philadelphia ______________________________________________________ 5. Girl Energy Performance Group, Seeks Performers CALL FOR PERFORMING ARTISTS THE P POWER PERFORMANCE PROJECT: SUPERGIRL POWER ACTIVATE!! ZAP! POW! BLAM! CALLING ALL SUPER HEROINES, SUPERGIRLS, SUPER WOMEN and=20 SUPERHUMAN FEMALES. P4 IS CURRENTLY SEEKING PERFORMANCE WORKS WITH THE=20 THEME, CONTENT OR CHARACTERS OF WOMAN/ GIRL AS ULTRA-POWERFUL SUPER BEING. The P Power Performance Project (P4) is a multi-year, multi-city project=20 committed to expanding images of women and power within the performance=20 context. Eligible artists include those working in dance, music,=20 performance art, puppetry, theater, interdisciplinary and/or hybrid forms. =20 Queer and drag artists are strongly encouraged to apply. Upcoming performances: November 4, 5 2000-William Way Community Center, and Silk City Lounge, Philadelphia, PA P4 kicks off with a two-night extravaganza to benefit future events. Local favorite performers reveal themselves in capes for an all-out super human experience. April 6,7 2001-Links Hall, Chicago, IL 4th annual Ladylike Performance Festival Participating artists will receive a fee of $150 Travel reimbursement may be available Housing can be provided Deadline for application 12/1/00. For application, more information ppowerperformanceproject@hotmail.com or PLEASE DISTRIBUTE-Share this notice with everyone you know, help link the=20 legions of supergirls--PLEASE DISTRIBUTE!!! i saw their =93Perils of P Power=94 at the Fringe Fest this year and they we= re=20 great.....especially Patricia Graham =20 -josh ______________________________________________________ 6. van gogh at the art museum i think this starts around 10/18 and runs till january, and to quote jonatha= n=20 richman, =93he knew how to use color=94 ______________________________________________________ 7. Rhinoceros - a play by absurdist french writer, Ionesco 11/1- 11/19 Ionesco is way cool, his play The Bald Soprano was smashing is last year=92s= =20 Fringe Fest (done by Madi Distefano of Brat Prod.), now we get Rhinoceros, b= y=20 Theater Exile, who did the piece that took place in a diner at last year=92s= =20 fringe, based loosely on Richard III....it was very good....... this will be good for sure.....Frank X is in it, one of philly best actors i=92ve been reading this play, and it is the story of people changing into=20 rhinoceros=92, and whether we believe if that is happening or not.....a stor= y=20 of transformation....could be interpreted to mean that society is=20 transforming, once our eyes are opened by art.....or could be a reference to= =20 the red scare of the 50=92s (it was written in the late 50=92s or early=20 60=92s....or it could mean both....and more! (a new translation) at the walnut street theater, studio 3, at 9th and walnut st., =20 call 215-922-3133 for reservations -josh ______________________________________________________ 8. don=92t forget to vote, penna. is a swing state , actually go vote i support gore (also Klink in, Santorum out, in the senate race) -josh ______________________________________________________ 9. The Greater Philadelphia Cultural Alliance has a listing of jobs in the=20 arts, and a northern liberties artists=92 opening, 5:00- 6:30, 10/12 The Greater Philadelphia Cultural Alliance is a membership organization of=20 nonprofit arts and cultural institutions located in the Delaware Valley.=20 GPCA's mission is to be the collective voice and advocate for culture in the= =20 Greater Philadelphia region, increasing positive awareness, participation an= d=20 support of cultural organizations among community leaders, audiences and the= =20 general public. The Cultural Alliance works towards its mission by providing= =20 information services including a monthly newsletter (not this newsletter=20 -josh), informational directories, a cultural employment service;=20 professional development programs; advocacy for public arts funding at the=20 local, state and federal levels; and group health insurance for member=20 organizations. Check out their website and job bank-=20 http://www.libertynet.org/gpca/index.html=20 The Greater Philadelphia Cultural Alliance is located at 100 South Broad=20 Street, Suite 1530 you don=92t have to be a member to use their job bank -josh __________________________________________________ 10. Tune in for Live at the Writers House "Best of Philly 2000" on sunday,=20 10/15, 11:00 PM , 88.5 FM 11:00 PM: Tune in for Live at the Writers House "Best of Philly 2000" on 88.5 FM WXPN. Featuring readings and performances by CAROLE BERNSTEIN, HOLLY JOHNSON, NANCY FALKOW, HERMAN BEAVERS, MYTILI JAGANNATHAN, CATHY=20 CRIMMINS, JENN MCCREARY, and PETER ROCK. i went to the taping of this at the Kelly Writer=92s House, and it was reall= y=20 really good, and you can still hear it by tuning in your radio on sunday=20 10/15......particularly wonderful are HOLLY JOHNSON (from the surreal front=20 house), CATHY CRIMMINS (whose husband had major brain trauma, and is the=20 topic of her writing), and JENN MCCREARY who has some surreal imagery of her= =20 own lots of other good events are at the Kelly Writer=92s House....see their website ---------------------------- The Kelly Writers House wh@dept.english.upenn.edu 3805 Locust Walk 215-573-WRIT Philadelphia, PA 19104=20 http://www.english.upenn.edu/~wh ____________________________________________________ 11. Spectres of the Spectrum, a film made from stock footage, mon., 10/30, a= t=20 The Prince Theater, 7:00 and 9:15 he uses stock footage of old sci-fi movies to tell a dystopian (opposite of=20 utopian) story of technology gone awry....i haven=92t seen it yet, but gretc= hen=20 from the prince says it=92s good. -josh ____________________________________________________ 12. New Groovy Cafe, Cosmos Cafe Cosmo's is a cool new cafe on Third st., near South St....the address is=20 615 south 3rd st., and their phone number is 215-517-7638 or 215-579-7638= =20 (i can't read my writing)....another number i have is 215-563-0441 there are= =20 2 people running this space, one is a woman named lena, and the other is a=20 guy named mitch. they are artists and have their art on the walls (actually, now they have th= e=20 photographs of john shenk, who heads slipping into sublimnity, a band that=20 plays spacy music, free, at 700 club on 2nd and 4th tuesdays), but anyway, they are into having music there, so all you musicians/event organizers, fee= l=20 free to call them or stop by there also, good food there (i liked the goat cheese sandwich), and a good idea is= =20 to buy things there to help support their new enterprise they have free music at Cosmo=92s Cafe every Saturday at 8:30pm, early enoug= h=20 to go to before your sat. night event -josh ___________________________________________________ 13. gate to moonbase alpha. saturday october 21. 8pm-midnight, free (from mistsojorn@aol.com aka gina) like trippy trancey spacey whirling swirly cloudy misty ambient, drum n bass= ,=20 and experimental tunes? come to gate to moonbase alpha. saturday october=20 21. 8pm-midnight. @the rotunda. 4012 walnut street. 3 bands tba. free. i went to their other shows and it was cool.... -josh ___________________________________________________________ well, that=92s all for now....you have an event coming up? let me know...thi= s=20 newsletter focuses on multimedia, surreal, artist empowerment, philly,=20 dreamy, transformation, open minds, and more! this goes out to about 3500 people if you want to add anyone or be deleted from this email newsletter, write me= . josh cohen GasHeart@aol.com ... ... . ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:11:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAYHEW Subject: a poet in the narrow sense MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I apologize for taking this phrase "a poet in the narrow sense" out of context from Bill Austin to make a rhetorical point. My larger point was Mallarme is also a philosopher of language of the highest order, and hence not a "philosopher in the narrow sense." I think Derrida would acknowledge this. Discussing philosophical issues in poetry is actually a way of discussing poetic issues in poetry. I can't go along with the idea that in philosophical discussions of poetry the philosophical terms will be dominant, and vice-versa. I don't really see how we can maintain this distinction in any consistent way, since the influence of a poet on a philosopher might be just as philosophical as it is poetic. The influence of Mallarme on Derrida comes by way of figures like Blanchot, perhaps. Is it merely coincidental that French poststructuralism is steeped in French "poetics"? I wasn't trying to be cute when I affirmed that it made sense to me to reverse the polarities of the debate. Of course it makes perfect sense to continue to use philosophy as a "metalanguage" to talk about poetics. This is, in fact, the normal practice of doing Derridean or Heideggerian readings of poetic texts. This is the status quo in my field: theoretical applications to poetic texts, in which theory is the metalanguage and poetics its object. I was trying to suggest a temporary reversal of perspectives that might be equally, if not more illuminating. At the very least, it coud be an interesting thought experiment. Jonathan Mayhew jmayhew@ukans.edu _____________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:22:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Re: Colloquium In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 3:55 PM -0400 10/10/00, Jacques Debrot wrote: >Of course, Dodie's instigative short fiction was provocative enough. But Jacques, my piece was not fiction! It was an essay that was refusing a certain type of essay logic/form. Believing that the essay would find a receptive audience here in the list was the only fiction involved on my part. Actually, I never believed that. Chris Alexander had to tell me, over and over, to leave the piece as it was, to prop me up, month after month. He's been unceasingly selfless in his willingness to play therapist/personal coach for me. So, thanks, Chris. I'm surprised by the responses to the Colloquium here, though after having been on the list so long, I don't know why. What I thought was nice about the Colloquium is that respondents didn't really argue with one another, but rather used previous responses as a based to leap frog from to talk about their own perceptions--rather than to challenge other arguments. Much closer to the multiple layers approach that we learned about as young poets in Kathleen Fraser's wonderful Feminist Poetics course at SF State. As opposed to the (enslavement of the) dualism of argument. The amazingly few responses on the list seem to center around announcing the official people we should look at if we're going to read about gender/sex/erotics, since most of us in the forum were not these official people. And there there's been a certain amount of bemoaning what the forum lacked, and then the projection of authority onto the respondents as dreaded authority figures that have to be challenged. I think that the Colloquium did some great work, spontaneously, at subverting privileged power relations when it comes to discussing Theory. And as an irregular mass that doesn't claim to be definitive or to represent anything in particular, it's silly to talk about its lack. I think the messiness and ambiguity of the project is where its greatest interest lies. And that messiness and ambiguity *is* about erotics, in my opinion. Dodie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:57:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Broder, Michael" Subject: Ear Inn Listings--October MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > The Ear Inn Readings > Saturdays at 3:00 > 326 Spring Street, west of Greenwich > New York City > > October 14 > Mark Scott, Tom Padilla, Rick Pernod > > October 21 > Coleman Hough, Patricia Spears Jones, Jonathan Thirkield > > October 28 > Kurt Brown, Sally-Ann Hard, Jo Sarzotti > > The Ear Inn Readings > Michael Broder, Patrick Donnelly, > Lisa Freedman, Kathleen E. Krause, Curators > > Martha Rhodes, Director > > For additional information contact Michael Broder (212) 802-1752 or > mbroder@whcom.com > > The Ear is one block north of Canal Street, a couple blocks west of > Hudson. > The closest trains are the 1-9 to Canal Street @ Varick, the A to Canal > Street @ Sixth Ave, or the C-E to Spring Street@ Sixth Ave. > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:02:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kathy Lou Schultz Subject: Re: Colloquium Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On the contrary, Robin Tremblay-McGaw's piece displays an active female sexuality that writhes and leaks and jumps right off the page. It goes beyond the "containable" in ways that question the very construction of female sexuality: in girls, in mothers, in places and ways that are unspeakable. Kathy Lou ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Kathy Lou Schultz http://www.english.upenn.edu/~klou Lipstick Eleven/Duck Press http://www.duckpress.org ---------- >From: Jacques Debrot >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Colloquium >Date: Tue, Oct 10, 2000, 3:55 PM > >Of course, Dodie's instigative short fiction was provocative enough. And >Kevin's response, as usual, exhibited all of those qualities for which I've >begun, increasingly, to admire (&, even, attempt to emulate him). But, on >the whole, I think the colloquium fell flat because it isn't at all, frankly, >as so many people on this List assume, the rhetoric of marginality--that is, >the language of symptoms--that makes the body--or anything else-- dangerous. >(In fact, we often seem too prone in our discussions, generally, to construct >a facile "them" in order to accomodate a readymade "us".) Put another way, >critique, as I've said before, isn't destabilizing. As a form of >surveillance, critique is both expected and desired by the therapeutic >bureaucracies of the university, the moderated List Serve, etc., etc. No >surprise, then, either, that what was always missing in LP was, precisely, >the *erotic*. In Scalapino, Harryman--or wherever you might think of looking >to contradict me--there is an entropy at the scale of the body that is, in >essence, erotically passive. And I couldn't help noticing, among other >things, the same passivity at the heart of so many of the responses to the >recent colloquium. > >--Jacques ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:59:14 -0500 Reply-To: RDrake Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: RDrake Subject: Re: Moneylenders in the Temple Comments: cc: michael_amberwind@YAHOO.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael-- although your would-be contributor latched on to the money issue in your reply, seems to me you were suggesting that s/he READ THE MAGAZINE BEFORE SUBMITTING, which is entirely reasonable. that's very different than readers fees, or submission fees, or limiting submissions to subscribers. if a magazine is worth anything, it's because it's a vehicle for/artifact of a poetic (sub)community... so its contributors can reasonably be asked to be participants in that community. which means investing energy (including but not limited to cash) into that community, as well as expecting something back. i've run a number of magazines in my day--if any of them had received half as many subscriptions (or even single copy sales) as they did submissions they'd still be going today. when a writer sends work to a zine they've never read, it speaks loudly about how little the writer cares about their work. something along the lines of "i don't care where i'm published. i don't know enough about poetry to realize that there are different schools/styles/standards. and i'm too good/busy/important to read other peoples' work." from my experience, this seems to be the majority opinion of poets in the US. but i'm not bitter... luigi ps: anyone want to by a couple thousand backissues of TapRoot Reviews? ----- Original Message ----- From: michael amberwind To: Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 3:47 PM Subject: Re: Moneylenders in the Temple > The following is an exchange of recent emails I > was involved in, with only the names removed to > protect the innocent and the guilty. Question: Is > it wrong to ask a person to buy a copy of their > magazine or books to be considered for > publication? It seems to me it is - I'd like to > know what the rest of you think. > It is this sort of thing that makes me want to > renounce publishing. Let them worry about it > after I die. > > ************************************************** > > I am writing you to > request submission guidelines. I have recently > completed a series of experimental poems titled > "pseudomnemonicon" for which I am seeking a > publisher. > > My publishing credits include Afterthoughts, > Defiance!, Textshop and the online journals Stark > Raving Sanity and Rockingchair.net. > > The book is available in .doc, .pub and .rtf > formats if you accept email submissions. > > Thank you for your time. > > > Sincerely, > > > Michael Bogue > > > > > Submission Guidelines are in issue #5 > > $5pp payable to ********** > > > > Be well > > > , Editor > > > > USA > > > > > > I do not buy issues for submission guidelines. I > do not pay reading fees. I do not pay contest > fees. I do not get subscriptions to be eligible > for publication. Not for five dollars. Not for > one dollar. It is wrong to do so and, in my view, > though a common practise, unethical to ask it. > > No job I have ever applied for has expected me to > pay them money, purchase their product, or buy > their list of qualifications. I am scarcely able > to afford postage. I receive far too many > rejection letters, as does any writer, to be able > to afford to purchase the works I seek to be > published in. > > I asked you for submission guidelines, and, once > again, I respectfully request them. > > > Sincerely, > > Michael Bogue > > > > > The reason you receive so many rejections is > > your belief that poetry is > > an ego feeding proposition related around a > > notion called "I" which > > appears almost once in every sentence written. > > For this reason we > > recommend one of the following: > > > > 1. Start a literary journal in which you only > > publish people other than > > yourself. After you do this, send it & we'll > > trade. > > 2. Buy a book from a different press that will > > help your current > > condition. In Book One of Gunslinger by Ed Dorn > > a character dies. For > > free guidelines, send a photocopy of the cover > > & do tell us who that > > character is. > > 3. Sell your computer or steal the one you are > > using and sell it. Buy a > > money order, send to the address below. > > > > Be well > > > Editor > > > > USA > > > > > > > Though I am not averse to committing crimes for > my art, I will need considerably more motivation > than any you can provide. > > As for the Gunslinger, that's a book I've been > looking for for a year - if I find it, I'll let > you know. > > As to why my poems weren't published, it isn't > because of my ego (which I admit is immense, > though I take no shame in the fact) this is > simply because I have followed the path of some > of my favorite writers, all of whom accumulated > vastly more rejection letters than I. More likely > than not, it was simply that the poems were not > very good. If ego were a cause for exclusion from > a magazine, most the pages of most magazines and > books for sale would be a lonely shade of white. > > As for starting my own magazine, I have > considered this path, but rejected it. There is > already a glut of magazines and publishers in my > city, and I serve them better by writing for them > than editing. > > Still, my point remains. None of the editors I > know, from at least a half dozen small > publications, would even think of making people > buy an issue or pay a fee to be published, let > alone guidelines. In fact, that is why many of > them have some sort of web presence - to avoid > that extra expense. > > Poetry has become - in my view - far too > incestuous. It is supported and created almost > entirely by the people who consume it. I see a > number of causes for this - an indifferent public > raised on television and internet, poets who are > unambitious and publishing companies that expect > their writers to support them - for which I see > no immediate solution. > > However, I consider it unfeasible to expect your > financial renumeration, even a part of it, come > from the poets who write for it. This is a unique > situation that exists nowhere else outside of > poetry. > > However, all too often poets go along with it - > accept it in their desire to be published. This > is truly a pernicious use of ones ego, much worse > than the use of the word "I" (or, even more > falsely, "we")merely because it is common, even > accepted. > > I withdraw my request for writer's guidelines. > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:17:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Coffey, Michael (Cahners-NYC)" Subject: Re: A poet in the narrow sense (was Adventures in Poultry) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" would it be fair to say that all great poets (if we can for the moment imagine such a group, and agree to its constituents in the abstract) are philosophers (that is, their work contains important and original ideas about reality, thought, and representation, say) but that not all great philosophers are poets? Which "great" poets might we consider non-philosophers, or poor ones. Pound? Yeats? Zukofsky? Which great philosophers might we consider not to be poets, or to be poor ones? Hegel? Bergson? Surely, the debate is not happily sited on a discussion of Mallarme and Derrida, two who are clearly or very arguably established in each camp---and, I might add, in considerable harmony on the issues of authorship, writing, absence, silence. Jabes is another. And Cage. And who, from either camp, might contest being included in the other: artaud? williams? nietzsche? i think the questions raised are interesting because they prompt me (at least) to survey the wider scope of values that i associate with poetry I admire and pay attention to; that is, what the philosophical components might be, say, of an artaud "spell" or mallarme's use of space and silence on the page, or mac low's rendering up of shakespeare sonnets via translation word for word to like words found at the head of a french/english dictionary page (in French Sonnets). These cogitations do disturb the mid-day hour ... > -----Original Message----- > From: Austinwja@AOL.COM [SMTP:Austinwja@AOL.COM] > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 10:53 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: A poet in the narrow sense (was Adventures in Poultry) > > In a message dated 10/5/00 9:55:03 PM, jmayhew@EAGLE.CC.UKANS.EDU writes: > > << "The Mallarme issue is pretty familiar to all of us, but Derrida is a > philosopher, not a poet in the narrow sense. It just makes more sense to > me > that Mallarme is Derridian than the other way around, in the way that > Shakespeare was Freudian (according to Jones) and not the other way > around." > > So wrote Bill Austin. This is striking to me, because it implies a > certain > privilege of theoretical discourse over poetic discourse, the latter > conceived of here as "narrow." It makes just as much sense to me to > reverse > the terms. Of course Derrida is Mallarmean, just as he is Heideggerian or > Freudian. It is also obvious, to me, that Freud was more Shakesperian at > least as much as vice-versa. Is Sophocles Aristotelian? He seems so if > we > read retrospectively, but my inclination would be to call Aristotle > Sophoclean. Of course, there's no right answer here. What struck me was > simply how opposite my own perspective is to that of those who privilege > theory (philosophy) over poetry in this way. > > >> > > There is always a privileging, obvious or concealed, written into the > language--it's unavoidable. In any sentence the predicate appropriates a > privilege the other grammatical elements do not, for example. Ernest > Jones > considered Shakespeare Freudian because in his analysis of Hamlet he read > a > mother/father/son dynamic that Freud fleshed out in clinical terms. > Certain > concepts became identified with Freud since he exposed them, and > retroactively they shed light not only on Shakespeare's genius, but also > on > Sophocles'. Freud once said that "The poets discovered the subconscious." > As to privileging "theory over poetry in this way," does it make equal > sense > to you to say that Freud was Mallarmean? It's true that all privileges > both > adhere and collapse upon close inspection--that's a crucial Derridean > point. > And the process of intertextuality does demonstrate that every text is > contingent upon the others across temporal boundaries. But we do need to > limit, to accept a provisional center, in order to discuss and achieve > conclusions (Derrida). So when discussing the philosophical paths taken > by > most of the great poets, it still makes more sense to me to privilege > philosophers "in that way" and on that subject. When and if we discover > and > discuss a philosopher's poetry, it will of course make more sense to > reverse > the polarities. This of course is what is meant by "poet in the narrow > sense," i.e., those who write poetry as opposed to those who write > philosophy. In the wider sense it has been said that Derrida's texts are > poetic. Similar descriptions have adhered to Freud's texts, and I've > heard > more than a few scholars refer to Quantum Theory as poetry. But I am > certainly for limiting terms so that sensible discussions may proceed. > Otherwise everything is everything, which in one sense (Derrida's as well > as > others') is accurate. But it tends to erase distinctions that do, from > another point of view, obtain. Consider that the Quantum theorists are > telling us the same thing. At the subatomic level, particles are waves > and > waves are particles--depends on the point of view, the questions posed, > the > information sought by a particular investigation/experiment. If > information > is the goal, if knowledge is the goal, then the Quantum guys tell us we > have > to make choices. If we want to measure a certain event, we must treat > subatomic events as either particles or waves, but not both > simultaneously. > If we want to measure Mallarme's and Derrida's poetry, then Mallarme > becomes > dominant. But if we desire to measure their philosophical postionings, > then > Derrida and/or other philosophers are dominant. So I say again, when > comparing poets to philosophers on philosophical issues, it makes more > sense > to me to privilege the philosophers since they are on their home ground > and > the poets usually aren't. So Mallarme is Derridean on those grounds and > less > so the other way around. In my view, anyone who wants to give poets equal > status with philosophers in the arena of philosophy has granted poets a > privilege way out of proportion to what they do, to their particular > expertise. That's all I'm saying, which still seems like common sense to > me. > Battle on, Zena! Or is it Zeno? Best, Bill ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 17:31:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: Announcements Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable This week and next week at the Poetry Project: TONIGHT, Wednesday, October 11th at 8 pm JOHN GODFREY and ANGE MLINKO John Godfrey=B9s books include Midnight on Your Left (1988), Dabble (1982), and How to Give Yourself a Clean Shot (distributed nationally by The Needle Exchange). Ange Mlinko, editor of The Poetry Project Newsletter, is the author of Matinees (Zoland, 1999), which was named one of the Best Books of 1999 by Publishers Weekly. Friday, October 13th at 10:30 pm THE LUCKY THIRTEEN READING Get lucky this Friday the Thirteenth with readings and performances by the Jezebelles, Carmelita Tropicana, Spit East, Raven, Regie Cabico as Cher and Tina Turn-her, Dr. Ducky Doolittle, and Bindlestiff Family Cirkus performer Scotty the Blue Bunny. Monday, October 16th at 8 pm BETSY ANDREWS AND ELIZABETH TREADWELL Betsy Andrews=B9 work has appeared in LUNGFULL!, Fence, Skanky Possum, and other journals. Elizabeth Treadwell is the author of a collection of prose/poetry, Populace (Avec, 1999), and a novel, Eleanor Ramsey: the Queen of Cups (San Francisco State University Press, 1997), which received the 1997 Michael Rubin Award. Wednesday, October 18th at 8 pm LISA JARNOT AND FRED MOTEN Lisa Jarnot is the author of the forthcoming Ring of Fire (Zoland, 2001) an= d several chapbooks. Fred Moten has published poetry in Grand Street and Lift and has poems forthcoming in Callaloo and Five Fingers Review. He is the author of the chapbook Arkansas (Pressed Wafer Press, 2000). Friday, October 20th at 10:30 pm A NIGHT OF TABOOS: SELF-PLEASURING & SHI*T Readers Tony Gloeggler, Daddy (Laurel Barclay and guitarist Matt Katz-Bohen), Gloria, and David Mills will bring their deepest secrets to light. An open mike follows. Unless otherwise noted, admission to all events is $7, $4 for students and seniors, and $3 for Poetry Project members. Schedule is subject to change. The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church at the corner of 2nd Avenue and 10th Street in Manhattan. The Poetry Project is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information or visit our Web site at http://www.poetryproject.com. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:17:06 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Poem 4: A lyric. by Richard Taylor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Poem 4 Egg 4 zig 4 bol vog oz 4 lun 4 pof da goll y 4 wol 4 log grogg l 4=20 zac li fregg 44 kklook duc ga dig 4 4 4 fa tdda 4 sdda 4 4444 andd: 4444 4 4 4 4 44 4 4 4 4 4 4 44 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 444 .so. =20 44444444 44444444 44444444 44444444 =20 Richard Taylor. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:03:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: LA Society of Experimental Poets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message was sent to the admin account. - Tim Shaner --On Wednesday, October 11, 2000, 8:14 PM -0700 "Todd Baron" wrote: " Los Angeles Society of Experimental Poets " " read (or not) " " Friday 10/13 " " (they exist) " " Todd Baron " " Beyond Baroque " " Diane Ward " " " Martin Nakell " " " Venice Ca. " " " Chris Reiner " " " 7:30 " " Douglas Messerli " " " (they don't) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:53:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Subject: Small Press Traffic's new email & directions to our new digs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello all, we have a new email here at Small Press Traffic. smallpress@ccac-art.edu. Hope to see some of you at our reading this Friday, with Chris Kraus and David Baratier. Directions We're at the new California College of Arts & Crafts San Francisco Campus, an old Greyhound hanger turned art, architecture, and writing school. There are lots of art galleries to wander through, and our new reading space, Timken Lecture Hall, is quite luxurious if we do say so ourselves. To get here from our old neighborhood up on Valencia, take the 22 bus down 16th Street toward the bay, and get off at 17th and Wisconsin. Walk 2 blocks down Wisconsin and you'll see CCAC. From the bay bridge, take the 9th St/Civic Center offramp, from the offramp take the Left on 8th Street option, cruise along 8th to Brannan, turn Left on Brannan, Right on 7th, left on Irwin to the dead end of the block at 8th Street and you're here. Remember, we are on the corner of 8th and Irwin, which is confusingly quite near the intersection of 16th and Wisconsin. A map will go out on our next flyer. Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Executive Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCAC 1111 Eighth Street San Francisco, California 94107 415/703-9278 http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:33:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Heller Subject: More Heller in Chicago Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks to Robert Archambeau for posting about the UIC poetics seminar (Tuesday evening, October 17th, 7:30 PM and Lake Forest reading, Wednesday October 18th at 7:30). In addition to those, I'll be doing the following in Chicago: Monday afternoon, 16 October--reading at DePaul, 3 PM Monday evening, 16 October--reading/book signing at Barnes & Noble (Clark & Diversery Branch) 7 PM Thursday afternoon, October 19th--reading at University of Chicago Divinity School in Swift Hall at 5:30 PM (reception afterwards). ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:40:56 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Igor Satanovsky Subject: RED ALERT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WARNING:=20 A gang of the rogue poets calling themselves=20 The Rush-Ins=20 are plotting to take over Butterfly Lightning Poetry Series at Tobacco Road,= Miami=92s oldest blues bar=20 & cabaret, for the baddest hour of innovative poetry=20 and performance art in South Florida. WHEN: Monday, 10/16/00, 7:30pm WHERE: Tobacco Road, 626 S. Miami Ave, Miami, FL (305) 374-1198=20 WARNING: You might be exposed to a concentrated beam of pulsating energies m= ore powerful than Ecstasy & more liberating than Viagra, designed to reach t= he core senses of every human animal by means of subversive ideas shocking v= ibes disjointed discourse & spacial disorientation. main offenders: Stanley Gemmell Janus Henderson=20 Ric Leach Nathan Levine Igor Satanovsky=20 Matt Tabin DISCLAIMER: Not or the faint-hearted. If you are not sure, consult your doct= or. DON=92T SAY WE DID NOT WARN YOU! Also, this fall at Tobacco Road: November 13: Igor Satanovsky, poetry Nathan Levine, fiction December 11:=20 James Henderson Ric Leach Matt Tabin _____ Igor Satanovsky, The Rush-Ins Poetry Collective For additional info, check: http://butterflylightning.com http://go.to/rushins ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:57:02 -0400 Reply-To: dcpoetry@lycos.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dc poetry Organization: Lycos Communications (http://comm.lycos.com:80) Subject: the most fun Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New York Poets: Now for some fun (and free treats, oh yeah!) It's renga, it's collaborative, and we're giving stuff away! Join Chris Putnam (fresh from Washington state), Jen Coleman and Allison Cobb (fresh from the other Washington) at the Zinc Bar this Sunday (Oct. 15, 6:37 pm, at 90 West Houston Between Laguardia & Thompson District) reading from their collaborative renga project Communal Bebop Canto. Read the book! Get the CD! Come for free treats! Thanks to Zinc Bar hosts Brendan Lorber and Douglas Rothschild. 10% cash back on all your calls through 2000 at Lycos Communications at http://comm.lycos.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:36:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII === write=sex=upon=the=bones=or=shards,=it's=the=best=way=to=scrawl=things= disappearing=in=their=making;=you've=got=to=read=among=the=scratches= while=skin=heals=or=shards=crumble=or=carry=hardly=anything,="Panep= fucked=Tuy=and=she=didn't=want=to" === === === === === === === === === === === === === === === "put=your=hair=on=and=let's=fuck"=broken=works=and=shards;=you've=got=to= break=thick=edges=and=read=across=the=jagged;=it's=there,=words=are= disappearing=in=their=making;= === === === === === === === === === === === === === === === you've=got=to=read=among=the=scratches=while:write=sex=upon=the=bones=or= shards,=it's=the=best=way=to=scrawl=things::"put=your=hair=on=and=let's= fuck"=broken=works=and=shards;=you've=got=to:write=sex=upon=the=bones=or= shards,=it's=the=best=way=to=scrawl=things= === === === === === === === === === === === === === === === it's=there,=words=are:=holograph=with=ideogrammar= === === === === === === === === === === === === === === === === === ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:09:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: { brad brace } Subject: UPDATE: The 12hr ISBN-JPEG Project In-Reply-To: <200010120410.e9C4AEO21056@get.wired.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" note: the Netcom-FTP site is being shut-down; please chose an alternate link note: new e-address: < bbrace@eskimo.com > _______ _ __ ___ _ |__ __| | /_ |__ \| | | | | |__ ___ | | ) | |__ _ __ | | | '_ \ / _ \ | | / /| '_ \| '__| | | | | | | __/ | |/ /_| | | | | |_| |_| |_|\___| |_|____|_| |_|_| _____ _____ ____ _ _ _ _____ ______ _____ |_ _|/ ____| _ \| \ | | | | __ \| ____/ ____| | | | (___ | |_) | \| |______ | | |__) | |__ | | __ | | \___ \| _ <| . ` |______| | | ___/| __|| | |_ | _| |_ ____) | |_) | |\ | | |__| | | | |___| |__| | |_____|_____/|____/|_| \_| \____/|_| |______\_____| | __ \ (_) | | | |__) | __ ___ _ ___ ___| |_ | ___/ '__/ _ \| |/ _ \/ __| __| | | | | | (_) | | __/ (__| |_ |_| |_| \___/| |\___|\___|\__| _/ | |__/ > > > > Synopsis: The 12hr-ISBN-JPEG Project began December 30, 1994. A `round-the-clock posting of sequenced hypermodern imagery by Brad Brace. The hypermodern minimizes the familiar, the known, the recognizable; it suspends identity, relations and history. The 12-hour ISBN JPEG Project ----------------------------- began December 30, 1994 Pointless Hypermodern Imagery... posted/mailed every 12 hours... a stellar, trajective alignment past the 00`s! A continuum of minimalist masks in the face of catastrophe; conjuring up transformative metaphors for the everyday... A poetic reversibility of events... A post-rhetorical, continuous, apparently random sequence of imagery... genuine gritty, greyscale... corruptable, compact, collectable and compelling convergence. The voluptuousness of the grey imminence: the art of making the other disappear. Continual visual impact; an optical drumming, sculpted in duration, on the endless present of the Net. An extension of the printed ISBN-Book (0-9690745) series... critically unassimilable... imagery is gradually acquired, selected and re-sequenced over time... ineluctable, vertiginous connections. The 12hr dialtone... [ see ftp.idiom.com/users/bbrace/netcom/books ] KEYWORDS: >> Disconnected, disjunctive, distended, de-centered, de-composed, ambiguous, augmented, ambilavent, homogeneous, reckless... >> Multi-faceted, oblique, obsessive, obscure, obdurate... >> Promulgated, personal, permeable, prolonged, polymorphous, provocative, poetic, plural, perverse, potent, prophetic, pathological... >> Evolving, eccentric, eclectic, egregious, exciting, entertaining, entropic, erotic, entrancing, enduring... Every 12 hours, another!... view them, re-post `em, save `em, trade `em, print `em, even publish them... Here`s how: ~ Set www-links to -> http://www.teleport.com/~bbrace/12hr.html. Look for the 12-hr-icon. Heavy traffic may require you to specify files more than once! Anarchie, Fetch, CuteFTP, TurboGopher... Or -> http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/12hr.html ~ Download from -> ftp.pacifier.com /pub/users/bbrace Download from -> ftp.idiom.com/users/bbrace Download from -> ftp.teleport.com /users/bbrace Download from -> ftp.rdrop.com /pub/users/bbrace Download from -> ftp.eskimo.com /u/b/bbrace * Remember to set tenex or binary. Get 12hr.jpeg ~ E-mail -> If you only have access to email, then you can use FTPmail to do essentially the same thing. Send a message with a body of 'help' to the server address nearest you: ftpmail@ccc.uba.ar ftpmail@cs.uow.edu.au ftpmail@ftp.uni-stuttgart.de ftpmail@ftp.Dartmouth.edu ftpmail@ieunet.ie ftpmail@src.doc.ic.ac.uk ftpmail@archie.inesc.pt ftpmail@ftp.sun.ac.za ftpmail@ftp.sunet.se ftpmail@ftp.luth.se ftpmail@NCTUCCCA.edu.tw ftpmail@oak.oakland.edu ftpmail@sunsite.unc.edu ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com ftpmail@census.gov bitftp@plearn.bitnet bitftp@dearn.bitnet bitftp@vm.gmd.de bitftp@plearn.edu.pl bitftp@pucc.princeton.edu bitftp@pucc.bitnet ~ Mirror-sites requested! Archives too! The latest new jpeg will always be named, 12hr.jpeg Average size of images is only 45K. * Perl program to mirror ftp-sites/sub-directories: src.doc.ic.ac.uk:/packages/mirror * ~ Postings to usenet groups: alt.12hr alt.binaries.pictures.12hr alt.binaries.pictures.misc alt.binaries.pictures.fine-art.misc * * Ask your system's news-administrator to carry these groups! (There are also usenet image browsers: TIFNY, PluckIt, Picture Agent, PictureView, Extractor97, NewsRover, Binary News Assistant, Newsfeeds) ~ This interminable, relentless sequence of imagery began in earnest on December 30, 1994. The basic structure of the project has been over twenty-four years in the making. While the specific sequence of photographs has been presently orchestrated for more than 12 years` worth of 12-hour postings, I will undoubtedly be tempted to tweak the ongoing publication with additional new interjected imagery. Each 12-hour posting is like the turning of a page; providing ample time for reflection, interruption, and assimilation. ~ The sites listed above also contain information on other transcultural projects and sources. ~ A very low-volume, moderated mailing list for announcements and occasional commentary related to this project has been established at topica.com /subscribe 12hr-isbn-jpeg -- This project has not received government art-subsidies. Some opportunities still exist for financially assisting the publication of editions of large (36x48") prints; perhaps (Iris giclees) inkjet quadtones bound as an oversize book. Other supporters receive rare copies of the first three web-offset printed ISBN-Books. -- ISBN is International Standard Book Number. JPEG and GIF are types of image files. Get the text-file, 'pictures-faq' to learn how to view or translate these images. [ftp ftp.idiom.com/users/bbrace/netcom/] -- (c) No copyright 1994,1995,1996,1997,1998,1999,2000 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:56:44 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alicia Askenase Subject: Nathaniel Mackey and Jay Wright MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WWCAC@WWCAC@WWCAC@WWCAC@WWCAC@WWCAC@WWCAC@ The Walt Whitman Cultural Arts Center is pleased to announce a reading with NATHANIEL MACKEY and JAY WRIGHT November 17, 2000, 7:30 in the evening $6/general $4/seniors and students/ free for members IN ADDITION Mr. Mackey will be giving a two hour workshop at the WWCAC on Saturday, November 18th. Time: TBA The class will be limited to 12 participants. Application Deadline: (has been moved up to) October 25 Application Guidelines: 1. Send up to five pages of poetry for consideration. 2. Send a cover sheet with your name, address, email and/or phone #. 3. Include an SASE if you'd like to have your work returned. 4. Upon notification, payment by check or telecharge is due before the workshop. 5. The workshop fee of $30 ($15 for members) includes a one-year membership to the Center. 6. Send application to Walt Whitman Cultural Arts Center, Nathaniel Mackey Workshop, Cooper and 2nd Streets, Camden, NJ 08102 This class will emphazise discussion among its participants, each of whom will present samples of his/her work and articulate particular aims, issues and questions s/he wishes to address and elicit responses to. The goal will be to promote an exchange of ideas and perspectives and to enhance the participants' awareness of and articulacy regarding the options and encumbrances we face as writers and as readers. Poet, novelist, and scholar Nathaniel Mackey, whose work includes a multitude of cultural influences blended with the spontaneity of improvisational jazz possesses a uniquely integral place in American and African American postmodern poetry. He is the author of Four for Trane, Septet for the End of Time, Eroding Witness, Outlandish: "Mu" Fourth Part-Eleventh Part, School of Udhra, Song of the Andoumboulou, What Said Serif, Bedouin Hornbook, Djbot Baghostus's Run and Atet A.D. (forthcoming in 2001). In addition, he is editor of the literary journal Hambone and co-editor of the anthology Moment's Notice: Jazz in Poetry and Prose. His book of critical essays, Discrepant Engagement: Dissonance, Cross-Culturality, and Experimental Writing , is now available in paperback from University of Alabama Press. He is a professor of Literature at the University of California, Santa Cruz. For directions check our website at www.waltwhitmancenter.org For questions about the workshop call 856-964-8300 Our email is currently out of service and will be working soon. MORE ON THE READING AND THE REST OF THE NOTABLE POETS AND WRITERS SERIES WILL BE POSTED SOON. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:55:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: COMBO 7 - The Fall Comments: To: hub@dept.english.upenn.edu, whcircle@dept.english.upenn.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit COMBO 7777777 COMBO 7777777 combo 777777 combo 7777777 COMBO 777777 COMBO 7777777 combo 777777 combo 7777777 COMBO 777777 COMBO the f a L L TAYLOR BRADY harryette mullen MYTILI JAGANNATHAN eugene ostashevsky FRAN CARLEN mark mCmorris JESSICA CHIU bill freind PRAGEETA SHARMA carl martin rachel raffler SUMMI KAIPA philip metres DMITRY PRIGOV a nd mark sardinha FIND OUT WHY ADAM & EVE DIG PEACHES!! WHY FOOLS FALL IN LOVE! THESE AND OTHER QUESTIONS ANSWERED!! single issues: $3.00 4-issue subscriptions: $10.00 full catalogue (only 20 remaining!) plus new subscription: $30.00 LIFETIME SUBSCRIPTION: $50.00 send cash or check made out to: Michael Magee 31 Perrin Ave. Pawtucket, RI 02861 email questions to mmagee@english.upenn.edu (note to subscribers & contributors: copies will go out this week, 10/26-20) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:02:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dickison Subject: POETRY CENTER BOOK AWARD announced Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =46OR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Date: 11 October 2000 Poetry Center Book Award Announced: Cole Swensen, TRY (University of Iowa Press) The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives is pleased to announce the winner of this year's Poetry Center Book Award. Cole Swensen's newest book of poems, _Try_ (University of Iowa Press), was selected for the annual award by this year's judge, poet Elizabeth Robinson, of Berkeley. The Poetry Center Book Award has been given every year since 1980 to an outstanding new book of poetry published in the previous year. Past winners of the award include: Sharon Olds, Alice Notley, Larry Eigner, Laura Moriarty, Jackson Mac Low, Yusef Komunyakaa, Lyn Hejinian, Luis J. Rodriguez, Adrian Louis, C.D. Wright, Barbara Guest, Jane Hirshfield, and Elaine Equi. The winner is awarded $500 and will be invited to read at The Poetry Center, along with the award judge, during The Poetry Center's Spring 2001 season. Cole Swensen is a poet and translator based at the University of Denver in Colorado, where she directs the creative writing program and teaches literature and poetry. She has also taught in the Paris Writers' Workshop and the Naropa Institute summer programs. The judge's award citation reads as follows: TRY, by Cole Swensen To read the poems of _Try_ is to engage with the author in attempts to see through (that is, via) a kind of blindness. This blindness is, in turn, not mitigated but illuminated by a revisionist sight: Cole Swensen's poetry puts me in mind of Simone Weil's insistence that true attentiveness has the power of the miraculous. Swensen looks at paintings which the reader cannot see, but the poet's acuity of attention transcends perception and becomes the making of meaning. What we try to enter becomes the story of the reach, the extended hand or hands-the story of recurrent, displaced, displacing trinities where that which transcends tries, and tries again, only to reach beyond itself, past representation, to flesh and blood. As comfortable with gap as she is with continuity, Swensen permits these poems to falter linguistically where history has crumbled, or the image cannot carry the weight of the explicit. Yet the poems themselves move away from the paintings, so closely observed that stasis becomes movement. The power of this work is, indeed, that it moves from image to word, viewer and viewed, then onward, to a seam, the embodying point of contact, a "something mysterious that exceeds accounting". -Elizabeth Robinson Cole Swensen's most recent book, _Try_ was earlier awarded the 1998 Iowa Poetry Prize and was published in 1999 by the University of Iowa Press. Her other recent books include _Noon_ (Sun & Moon Press, 1997), which won their New American Writing Award, and _Numen_ (Burning Deck Publications, 1995), which was nominated for the PenWest Award in poetry. Her book-length poem _Oh_ will be published by Apogee Press in the fall of 2000, and the collection _Such Rich Hour_ is coming out from University of Iowa in 2001. Other recent work has appeared in journals including The Boston Review, Conjunctions, and Grand Street. Ms. Swensen is a translator of contemporary French poetry, fiction, and art criticism. Recent publications include Olivier Cadiot's _Art Poetic'_, Green Integer Press, and Pierre Alferi's _Natural Gaits_, Sun & Moon Press; Jean Fr=E9mon's _The Island of the Dead_ and Pascalle Monnier's _Bayart_ wil= l be coming out in 2001. She has received grants for translating from the Direction du Livre et de la Lecture in Paris and from the Fondation Beaumarchais, the latter for collaborating on a theater adaptation of Olivier Cadiot's Colonel Zoo. Elizabeth Robinson, judge for this year's Poetry Center Book Award, is the author of several books of poetry, including _Bed of Lists_ (Kelsey St. Press), _In the Sequence of Falling Things_ (Paradigm Press), and the recent chapbooks _As Betokening_ (Quarry Press) and _Lodger_ (Arcturus Editions). Her book _House Made of Silver_ is forthcoming from Kelsey St. Press, and _Under the Silky Roof_ from Burning Deck. She lives in Berkeley. for further information, contact: The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives 1600 Holloway Avenue San Francisco CA 94132 tel 415-338-2227 fax 415-338-0966 www.sfsu.edu/~newlit/ # # =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ vox 415-338-3401 ~ fax 415-338-0966 http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 12:36:15 -0700 Reply-To: rovasax@rova.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rova Saxophone Quartet Subject: Re: Moneylenders in the Temple In-Reply-To: <20001010204703.9862.qmail@web1103.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael: Although I haven't compiled quite as many rejections as you (only because I haven't submitted as many manuscripts as you have, no doubt), I can say that it's pretty common practice for an editor to recommend that you look at a current issue of the mag before submitting, if only to check out what kind of work they're publishing and whether your manuscript would be a good fit. Ideally (it seems to me) you would want to be published in a mag that included writers you are excited about, in order to have your work read by others whose work you esteem, and perhaps even engage in a dialogue with those other writers or readers that might be beneficial to all. I suspect that if you hadn't immediately cast the exchange in terms of a broader issue in which you rushed to the moral high ground, and instead merely asked the editors where you could look at a copy of the mag without having to purchase it, or whether it was possible to trade for it, or somehow send your manuscript without paying $5 -- you see what I'm getting at here -- perhaps you wouldn't have ended up with the predictable outcome of withdrawing your request in a moralistic huff. I also find it highly ironic -- I mean, is this a joke, or what? -- that you seem quite satisfied to fulfill your role in poetry by writing rather than editing your own mag, and yet one paragraph later you're bitching about poetry being "far too incestuous." Excuse me, Mr. Amberwind, but what exactly are you doing to expand the audience for your poetry beyond the limited, incestuous community of other poets? Or is the mere fact of your work appearing in said mags going to blow the doors off this hermetically sealed universe you describe and into a mainstream? With an "experimental" manuscript called "pseudomnemonicon," somehow I doubt it. As for not knowing of any other art form which relies on its own practicioners in order to sustain itself, that's just wrong. I happen to live in the Bay Area and be heavily involved with the new music scene here, which relies EXCLUSIVELY on its own musicians, and those generally regional and very poor, to survive. Week after week, men and women toil in obscurity in small clubs and arts spaces, and other musicians come to watch them do it, because they want to hear the music and know what's going on. And guess what? None of them demands to be let in for free, even if they've played on the same series, or are going to play, or simply WANT to play next week. And I suspect -- hell, I KNOW -- that it's pretty much the same gig here in the good ole USA with just about every art form you'd care to name. All this is not to say that you ought to have to pay $5 just to submit somewheres. It's just plumb great that you've taken a stand and decided not to do this. People plunk down that $5 -- and if they don't have that $5 maybe they offer to help apply postage, or run stuff through the printer, or whatever -- not because they're trying to buy their way in to a certain mag, but because they're trying to support what's going on. At least, that's why they OUGHT to be doing it. When you're old and distinguished and have 26 books out but STILL unknown outside of the poetry community, as some of my friends, now, are -- THEN you can submit to any magazine you want without paying any money or even asking for guidelines. Till then, best of luck David Fuchsiabreeze -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of michael amberwind Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 1:47 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Moneylenders in the Temple The following is an exchange of recent emails I was involved in, with only the names removed to protect the innocent and the guilty. Question: Is it wrong to ask a person to buy a copy of their magazine or books to be considered for publication? It seems to me it is - I'd like to know what the rest of you think. It is this sort of thing that makes me want to renounce publishing. Let them worry about it after I die. ************************************************** I am writing you to request submission guidelines. I have recently completed a series of experimental poems titled "pseudomnemonicon" for which I am seeking a publisher. My publishing credits include Afterthoughts, Defiance!, Textshop and the online journals Stark Raving Sanity and Rockingchair.net. The book is available in .doc, .pub and .rtf formats if you accept email submissions. Thank you for your time. Sincerely, Michael Bogue > Submission Guidelines are in issue #5 > $5pp payable to ********** > > Be well > , Editor > > USA > > I do not buy issues for submission guidelines. I do not pay reading fees. I do not pay contest fees. I do not get subscriptions to be eligible for publication. Not for five dollars. Not for one dollar. It is wrong to do so and, in my view, though a common practise, unethical to ask it. No job I have ever applied for has expected me to pay them money, purchase their product, or buy their list of qualifications. I am scarcely able to afford postage. I receive far too many rejection letters, as does any writer, to be able to afford to purchase the works I seek to be published in. I asked you for submission guidelines, and, once again, I respectfully request them. Sincerely, Michael Bogue > The reason you receive so many rejections is > your belief that poetry is > an ego feeding proposition related around a > notion called "I" which > appears almost once in every sentence written. > For this reason we > recommend one of the following: > > 1. Start a literary journal in which you only > publish people other than > yourself. After you do this, send it & we'll > trade. > 2. Buy a book from a different press that will > help your current > condition. In Book One of Gunslinger by Ed Dorn > a character dies. For > free guidelines, send a photocopy of the cover > & do tell us who that > character is. > 3. Sell your computer or steal the one you are > using and sell it. Buy a > money order, send to the address below. > > Be well > Editor > > USA > > Though I am not averse to committing crimes for my art, I will need considerably more motivation than any you can provide. As for the Gunslinger, that's a book I've been looking for for a year - if I find it, I'll let you know. As to why my poems weren't published, it isn't because of my ego (which I admit is immense, though I take no shame in the fact) this is simply because I have followed the path of some of my favorite writers, all of whom accumulated vastly more rejection letters than I. More likely than not, it was simply that the poems were not very good. If ego were a cause for exclusion from a magazine, most the pages of most magazines and books for sale would be a lonely shade of white. As for starting my own magazine, I have considered this path, but rejected it. There is already a glut of magazines and publishers in my city, and I serve them better by writing for them than editing. Still, my point remains. None of the editors I know, from at least a half dozen small publications, would even think of making people buy an issue or pay a fee to be published, let alone guidelines. In fact, that is why many of them have some sort of web presence - to avoid that extra expense. Poetry has become - in my view - far too incestuous. It is supported and created almost entirely by the people who consume it. I see a number of causes for this - an indifferent public raised on television and internet, poets who are unambitious and publishing companies that expect their writers to support them - for which I see no immediate solution. However, I consider it unfeasible to expect your financial renumeration, even a part of it, come from the poets who write for it. This is a unique situation that exists nowhere else outside of poetry. However, all too often poets go along with it - accept it in their desire to be published. This is truly a pernicious use of ones ego, much worse than the use of the word "I" (or, even more falsely, "we")merely because it is common, even accepted. I withdraw my request for writer's guidelines. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:15:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: REMINDER: members of the POG Collective to read this Friday, 7pm, Dinnerware (!) Comments: To: Tenney Nathanson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit REMINDER POG presents Members of the POG Collective Friday, Oct 13, 7pm, Dinnerware Gallery, 135 East Congress Readers will include Charles Alexander Elizabeth Landry Gene Lyman Allison Moore Tenney Nathanson Jesse Seldess Frances Shoberg Scott Stanley Debra White-Stanley suggested contribution: $5; students $3 POG events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council and the Arizona Commission on the Arts POG also benefits from the continuing support of The University of Arizona Extended University Writing Works Center, The University of Arizona Department of English, The University of Arizona Poetry Center, and the Arizona Quarterly for further information contact POG: 296-6416 tenney@azstarnet.com mailto:tenney@azstarnet.com mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 12:13:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: chris stroffolino Subject: Re: Colloquium MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jacques--- I was struck, if not exactly surprised, by how little of body, bodies, was actually discussed (in a "referential" way, etc...) & not just in this symposium, but often when discussions of body come up in intellectual contexts.... There's this weird critique that certain intellectual poets don't make room for the body enough, and being often lumped in with those poets myself, I tend to be sensitive to it and thus open to it....I mean the critique gets my attention, like maybe THEY know something I don't know, so I run out to read such poetry (being vague here) and find either "body as language" or "body as abstraction," as good thing we need to return to, etc, but not much else more than that.... Has anybody else had this experience? Now, sex is something different.... But, even so, I'm reading the hopefully-soon-to-be-released correspondence of Nada Sullivan and Gary Gordon and--- am struck by Nada's awareness of her body. A lot of talk about diet, how diet affects thought, and not just though, constitution,. about how poropus, sensitive, etc... this is refreshing and though it's but one subtheme of the book points in a direction i'd like to see emphasized more.... that is, assuming we're talking about the body.... i mean, sure no one these days (please refute me) wants to be so boring as to make poetry sound like a mere self-help book, or practical etc, but I think the taboo here could be shattered in ways that do not sacrfice intensity... Maybe I should just hold another colloquium; where I ask people to write prose statements (and poetry may be allowed in some cases) about how they deal, on a daily basis, with being "embodied,"---- And that would mean you too Jacques, so if Leslie and Harryman etc, are passive in their bodies, what do you offer by way of alternative, or of personal relationship to BOD (as oppossed to G-D, that be.....) C Jacques Debrot wrote: > Of course, Dodie's instigative short fiction was provocative enough. And > Kevin's response, as usual, exhibited all of those qualities for which I've > begun, increasingly, to admire (&, even, attempt to emulate him). But, on > the whole, I think the colloquium fell flat because it isn't at all, frankly, > as so many people on this List assume, the rhetoric of marginality--that is, > the language of symptoms--that makes the body--or anything else-- dangerous. > (In fact, we often seem too prone in our discussions, generally, to construct > a facile "them" in order to accomodate a readymade "us".) Put another way, > critique, as I've said before, isn't destabilizing. As a form of > surveillance, critique is both expected and desired by the therapeutic > bureaucracies of the university, the moderated List Serve, etc., etc. No > surprise, then, either, that what was always missing in LP was, precisely, > the *erotic*. In Scalapino, Harryman--or wherever you might think of looking > to contradict me--there is an entropy at the scale of the body that is, in > essence, erotically passive. And I couldn't help noticing, among other > things, the same passivity at the heart of so many of the responses to the > recent colloquium. > > --Jacques ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 11:27:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Susan Bee: New York Show Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Susan Bee New Paintings and Artist's Books October 3 - December 15, 2000 Opening Reception: Friday, October 20, 5-8pm Herbert H. Lehman Suite and Papers Room 406, School of International Affairs Columbia University Amsterdam Avenue and West 118th Street Information and Hours: Philip Napoli, 212-854-3060 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:29:59 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Massey Subject: Re: Poem 4: A lyric. by Richard Taylor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ex pear a mental pome for Richard Taylor Die eye gnostic. My blue cups are overfluent-- smell the tap water. Big bad more hiss code. Flatulent penguins pirouette on stoops in groups of four and cry for the door. My hand's a mangy crow cawing autumn blues, reds, oranges. Rubber heads bounce in the margins. -- Joe Massey ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:27:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Broder, Michael" Subject: Re: More Heller in Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" And don't forget November 18 at the Ear Inn, 326 Spring Street, New York City, at 3:00 PM along with Mark Bibbins and Herbert Scott. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Heller [mailto:mh7@IS2.NYU.EDU] Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 10:33 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: More Heller in Chicago Thanks to Robert Archambeau for posting about the UIC poetics seminar (Tuesday evening, October 17th, 7:30 PM and Lake Forest reading, Wednesday October 18th at 7:30). In addition to those, I'll be doing the following in Chicago: Monday afternoon, 16 October--reading at DePaul, 3 PM Monday evening, 16 October--reading/book signing at Barnes & Noble (Clark & Diversery Branch) 7 PM Thursday afternoon, October 19th--reading at University of Chicago Divinity School in Swift Hall at 5:30 PM (reception afterwards). ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:25:32 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: A poet in the narrow sense (was Adventures in Poultry) comment R Taylor. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael. I would say that the whole Black Mountain group was clearly philosophic in your sense, so Olson, Creeley, Cage, Maclow even Ed Dorn. I think that Ashbery is inherently, like Stevens, philosophic. All poets must be in some sense (which is why George B.(I'm still studying that word "chutzpah" tho, according to one source its a positive term; how dare you insult me with a compliment, or compliment me with an insult.) will be pleased (for all I know he doesnt give a...) I'm doing some swat by reading "Structuralism and Semiotics" by Terrence Hawkes.) But this of course wont make me a "philosophic" poet, but maybe help me to understand why I'm not! Charles Bernstein says (to the effect) that Sartre's "Being & Nothingness" is more like a great poem than say his books. It has poetic elements.(Polysemy,ambiguity,metonomy,metaphory) I think that structuralists'(Russian formalists?) idea of ostranie goes to the heart of the matter (to cash in on G Greene). Marx was an economist/philosopher but obviously not a poet. Some claim Heidegger (see George I've read Heidegger) (thats not a dig tho) and I like his idea or method (somewhat) and description of Van Gogh's boots etc. but I feel he slides away from being a philospher. He's more of a philopoet like Nietsche.I once thought that there might be a kind of "Unified Field Theory of Language" but I couldnt subsume certain language. E.g. certain instructions require repetition and abxolute concision. O.K. some of the communication problems creep in, but they are not deliberately introduced in the way that poets introduce ambiguity, metaphor, metonomy and so on. To some extent Silliman is right in his notion that a writer of literature ( of a certain "high" kind) needs to know who her audience is. . .One doesnt have to be a Russell or a Wittgenstein to "understand" poetry. Especially Mallarme: but one needs certain info as to how to "approach" M.(Derrida's writing seems "poetic" to me). Also the same applies to other writers. I still, have trouble "reading" Marrianne Moore, but this doesnt mean I dislike her work. Many of the Lang Poets have rather obscure adgendas - as do many modern or post modern artists (however those terms are interpreted) but one gets "used" to "reading" them. Then perhaps somewhat they lose theie edge. But a "great" poet (actually I see things like "Finnegans Wake " as being a vast, tortuous and fascinating poem. I heard Joyce (on the radio) reading it and it "came alive" so to speak: it DID seem like a huge poem.) produces something we return to, and can withstand and "improve" by or from analyses or exegesis.Eliot claimed to not have any clear ideas. I think we try to dig, to uncover, to reveal. My father used to point to cloud formations and what to a lot of other people would look out toward "dull weather" and talk about the light and shapes like other people talk about 50 milllion dollars: but he wasnt acting. O K it may have derived from the "philosophy" he'd picked up,maybe thru schooling or reading or even general communications, but he hadnt read eg Coleridge's "philosophic" works. Had seen the Turner's at the Tate in London tho. But there's someone: Coleridge. would he qualify? Pound I agree was a pathetic philosopher. I'd be surprised if he could boil an egg (not fair I know, I believe he was very "handy"), but I mean his Douglassian based philosophy of economics and usura as he called it was pathetic (if not horrible in the light of the Holocaust).A friend of mine has translated the "fascist cantos" from Italian. Struggled to stay interested in Pound after reading them. They are vomitable. But he was a great "philosopher" and innovator in poetics and was surely a "great" poet. I see one aspect of Pound as a kind of proto-confessionalist. The early Auden and (sometimes the later in his "logical paradox" poems (which can be infuriatingly maddening to decipher) was surely a philosopher (Auden was also good at Maths). William Bronk is interesting and is (to me) a kind of ("aphoriser") - an ambiuating aphoriser.. Doesnt Susan Howe philosophise re history, the role or whatever of women artists, reality and language and so on? And Heijinian "meditates" on time (perhaps in a very different way to Proust)life,memory, and reality. Its maybe a question of deliberateness. Some interesting questions. all poets are concerned, in some way, with the fundamental and maybe unkowable nature or "meaning" of consciousness and sentience. Poets need to maintain their heads awake. Everything must fascinate. The spaces, the ellipses, the frightening or intriguing holes or sycopes, shick us awake as in Bernstein's "...with this difference, it brings you to your senses" [The Klupsy girl] But if one is a "great" poet and one is unhappy, then that is futile. On a lighter note. Philosophy can be defined as 1. Bullshit raised to the highest power. 2. Decacophanated mumbo-jumbo. 3. Everything my cat (who'se got more sense) never worries about. 4. (Add your definition). Interesting post Michael, regards Richard. P.S. What about Empson and Lewis Carrol (Carol was a Logician and Mathematician and Empson had trained in mathematics.?) (My apologies to George B. but I havent read "Seven Types..." Gave up on the first page. Must um......) ---- Original Message ----- From: "Coffey, Michael (Cahners-NYC)" To: Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 5:17 AM Subject: Re: A poet in the narrow sense (was Adventures in Poultry) > would it be fair to say that all great poets (if we can for the moment > imagine such a group, and agree to its constituents in the abstract) are > philosophers (that is, their work contains important and original ideas > about reality, thought, and representation, say) but that not all great > philosophers are poets? Which "great" poets might we consider > non-philosophers, or poor ones. Pound? Yeats? Zukofsky? Which great > philosophers might we consider not to be poets, or to be poor ones? Hegel? > Bergson? > > Surely, the debate is not happily sited on a discussion of Mallarme and > Derrida, two who are clearly or very arguably established in each > camp---and, I might add, in considerable harmony on the issues of > authorship, writing, absence, silence. Jabes is another. And Cage. > And who, from either camp, might contest being included in the other: > artaud? williams? nietzsche? > > i think the questions raised are interesting because they prompt me (at > least) to survey the wider scope of values that i associate with poetry I > admire and pay attention to; that is, what the philosophical components > might be, say, of an artaud "spell" or mallarme's use of space and silence > on the page, or mac low's rendering up of shakespeare sonnets via > translation word for word to like words found at the head of a > french/english dictionary page (in French Sonnets). These cogitations do > disturb the mid-day hour ... > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Austinwja@AOL.COM [SMTP:Austinwja@AOL.COM] > > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 10:53 AM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: A poet in the narrow sense (was Adventures in Poultry) > > > > In a message dated 10/5/00 9:55:03 PM, jmayhew@EAGLE.CC.UKANS.EDU writes: > > > > << "The Mallarme issue is pretty familiar to all of us, but Derrida is a > > philosopher, not a poet in the narrow sense. It just makes more sense to > > me > > that Mallarme is Derridian than the other way around, in the way that > > Shakespeare was Freudian (according to Jones) and not the other way > > around." > > > > So wrote Bill Austin. This is striking to me, because it implies a > > certain > > privilege of theoretical discourse over poetic discourse, the latter > > conceived of here as "narrow." It makes just as much sense to me to > > reverse > > the terms. Of course Derrida is Mallarmean, just as he is Heideggerian or > > Freudian. It is also obvious, to me, that Freud was more Shakesperian at > > least as much as vice-versa. Is Sophocles Aristotelian? He seems so if > > we > > read retrospectively, but my inclination would be to call Aristotle > > Sophoclean. Of course, there's no right answer here. What struck me was > > simply how opposite my own perspective is to that of those who privilege > > theory (philosophy) over poetry in this way. > > > > >> > > > > There is always a privileging, obvious or concealed, written into the > > language--it's unavoidable. In any sentence the predicate appropriates a > > privilege the other grammatical elements do not, for example. Ernest > > Jones > > considered Shakespeare Freudian because in his analysis of Hamlet he read > > a > > mother/father/son dynamic that Freud fleshed out in clinical terms. > > Certain > > concepts became identified with Freud since he exposed them, and > > retroactively they shed light not only on Shakespeare's genius, but also > > on > > Sophocles'. Freud once said that "The poets discovered the subconscious." > > As to privileging "theory over poetry in this way," does it make equal > > sense > > to you to say that Freud was Mallarmean? It's true that all privileges > > both > > adhere and collapse upon close inspection--that's a crucial Derridean > > point. > > And the process of intertextuality does demonstrate that every text is > > contingent upon the others across temporal boundaries. But we do need to > > limit, to accept a provisional center, in order to discuss and achieve > > conclusions (Derrida). So when discussing the philosophical paths taken > > by > > most of the great poets, it still makes more sense to me to privilege > > philosophers "in that way" and on that subject. When and if we discover > > and > > discuss a philosopher's poetry, it will of course make more sense to > > reverse > > the polarities. This of course is what is meant by "poet in the narrow > > sense," i.e., those who write poetry as opposed to those who write > > philosophy. In the wider sense it has been said that Derrida's texts are > > poetic. Similar descriptions have adhered to Freud's texts, and I've > > heard > > more than a few scholars refer to Quantum Theory as poetry. But I am > > certainly for limiting terms so that sensible discussions may proceed. > > Otherwise everything is everything, which in one sense (Derrida's as well > > as > > others') is accurate. But it tends to erase distinctions that do, from > > another point of view, obtain. Consider that the Quantum theorists are > > telling us the same thing. At the subatomic level, particles are waves > > and > > waves are particles--depends on the point of view, the questions posed, > > the > > information sought by a particular investigation/experiment. If > > information > > is the goal, if knowledge is the goal, then the Quantum guys tell us we > > have > > to make choices. If we want to measure a certain event, we must treat > > subatomic events as either particles or waves, but not both > > simultaneously. > > If we want to measure Mallarme's and Derrida's poetry, then Mallarme > > becomes > > dominant. But if we desire to measure their philosophical postionings, > > then > > Derrida and/or other philosophers are dominant. So I say again, when > > comparing poets to philosophers on philosophical issues, it makes more > > sense > > to me to privilege the philosophers since they are on their home ground > > and > > the poets usually aren't. So Mallarme is Derridean on those grounds and > > less > > so the other way around. In my view, anyone who wants to give poets equal > > status with philosophers in the arena of philosophy has granted poets a > > privilege way out of proportion to what they do, to their particular > > expertise. That's all I'm saying, which still seems like common sense to > > me. > > Battle on, Zena! Or is it Zeno? Best, Bill ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:03:43 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Colloquium MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dodie. I found the Colloquium interesting if somwhat disturbing. But then I suppose part of what the wriers were doing was to provoke etc. But it takes courage to write, well to write and present anything to anyone. Maybe a lot on the list are thinking about what was on, and still havent thought out their responses. I dont know anything about the "politics" of it. In fact I wasnt sure what it was (I had to look up "colloquium in the dictionary) .But good on you all. I liked the "mix" from "confessional" or theoretical and then to "poetical" and so on.Regards, Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dodie Bellamy" To: Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 5:22 AM Subject: Re: Colloquium > At 3:55 PM -0400 10/10/00, Jacques Debrot wrote: > >Of course, Dodie's instigative short fiction was provocative enough. > > But Jacques, my piece was not fiction! It was an essay that was > refusing a certain type of essay logic/form. Believing that the > essay would find a receptive audience here in the list was the only > fiction involved on my part. Actually, I never believed that. Chris > Alexander had to tell me, over and over, to leave the piece as it > was, to prop me up, month after month. He's been unceasingly > selfless in his willingness to play therapist/personal coach for me. > So, thanks, Chris. > > I'm surprised by the responses to the Colloquium here, though after > having been on the list so long, I don't know why. What I thought > was nice about the Colloquium is that respondents didn't really argue > with one another, but rather used previous responses as a based to > leap frog from to talk about their own perceptions--rather than to > challenge other arguments. Much closer to the multiple layers > approach that we learned about as young poets in Kathleen Fraser's > wonderful Feminist Poetics course at SF State. As opposed to the > (enslavement of the) dualism of argument. > > The amazingly few responses on the list seem to center around > announcing the official people we should look at if we're going to > read about gender/sex/erotics, since most of us in the forum were not > these official people. And there there's been a certain amount of > bemoaning what the forum lacked, and then the projection of authority > onto the respondents as dreaded authority figures that have to be > challenged. > > I think that the Colloquium did some great work, spontaneously, at > subverting privileged power relations when it comes to discussing > Theory. And as an irregular mass that doesn't claim to be definitive > or to represent anything in particular, it's silly to talk about its > lack. I think the messiness and ambiguity of the project is where > its greatest interest lies. And that messiness and ambiguity *is* > about erotics, in my opinion. > > Dodie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 12:28:52 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nuyopoman@AOL.COM Subject: Aime Cesaire MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can anyone help me contact Cesaire? Please back channel -- thanks! Bob Holman Bob Holman * 173 Duane St #2 NY NY 10013 * 212-334-6414 Fax: 6415 holman@bard.edu * nuyopoman@aol.com * poetry.about.com poetry.guide@about.com * www.worldofpoetry.org bholman@washingtonsquarearts.com * www.peoplespoetry.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 02:23:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: at a conference MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII === === === at a conference positioning, holding forth, the gift of the self, returns "in a world of anomic isolation, each separate & in travail" and: at the great conference I sense I am with other people whose mothers and fathers have died, who have been cast out alone in the world, and who are living and speaking by their own wits, who are bereft and lonely; at the great conference, I sense I am among the departed, that there is none preceding them, that there is none among them; at the great conference I sense an unutterable silence among those who speak, those who listen ... or: "The screen is a very provisional state." (Jacques Derrida) === === === ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:46:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Goethe-Institut Reception Subject: Concert MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The MAX - KLINGER CHOIR FROM LEIPZIG / GERMANY in concert Monday October 23rd, 2000 at 7 pm Alliance Française, 1345 Bush Street Admission: $4 J.S. BACH G.F. HAENDEL MENDELSSON BARTHOLDY H. SCHUETZ INTERNATIONAL TRADITIONAL MUSIC, AS WELL as SPIRITUALS The Max-Klinger-Choir awarded the GOLD MEDAL in the choir competition of Verona/ Italy in 1999 and SILVER MEDAL at the Orlando di Lasso competition in Rome/Italy 1998 for more information, please contact: Alliance Française de San Francisco Tél: 415 775 7755 Goethe-Institut San Francisco 530 Bush Street San Francisco, CA 94108 Phone: 415 263-8760 Fax: 415 391-8715 http://www.goethe.de/sanfrancisco ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:44:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Goethe-Institut Reception Subject: Film: Young Dr. Freud MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit EXCLUSIVE BAY AREA ENGAGEMENt Young Dr. Freud Friday, October 27-Wednesday, November 1 Rafael Film Center Made in 1977, this fascinating and articulate drama about Sigmund Freud¹s early years is only now being released in the US. Director Axel Corti and screenwriter Georg Stefan Toller frame their narrative between two traumatic events in Freud¹s life Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Shemurph@AOL.COM Subject: stride MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable STRIDE MAGAZINE www.stridemagazine.co.uk After 33 issues as a poetry magazine, four issues as an 'occasional arts journal', and a few years gap Stride magazine welcomes you back to its new incarnation as a webzine. A gathering of new poetry, short prose, articles, news, reviews and whatever takes our fancy. We don't intend to worry about producing Stride issue by issue, just keep updating what's on the site. Read on=C5=A0 SUBMITTING TO STRIDE MAGAZINE The editor, Rupert Loydell, welcomes submissions of 4 or 5 poems, short prose, reviews or articles. Please submit in the body of e-mails [not attachments] to submissions@stridemagazine.co.uk or by snailmail [with SAE for reply] to Stride Magazine, 11 Sylvan Road, Exeter, Devon EX4 6EW If in doubt about what you want to submit, ask first. E-mail to editor@stridemagazine.co.uk Attachments or snailmail without SAEs will not be considered or replied to. STRIDE MAGAZINE www.stridemagazine.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:11:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Colloquium In-Reply-To: <20001011180314.VPSL2291.mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net@[12.90.22.124]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jacques: out of curiosity: what writing (about) sexuality/the body *doesn't* enact or reproduce "an entropy at the scale of the body that is, in essence, erotically passive"? At 2:02 PM -0400 10/11/00, Kathy Lou Schultz wrote: >On the contrary, Robin Tremblay-McGaw's piece displays an active female >sexuality that writhes and leaks and jumps right off the page. It goes >beyond the "containable" in ways that question the very construction of >female sexuality: in girls, in mothers, in places and ways that are >unspeakable. >Kathy Lou >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Kathy Lou Schultz >http://www.english.upenn.edu/~klou > >Lipstick Eleven/Duck Press >http://www.duckpress.org > >---------- >>From: Jacques Debrot >>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >>Subject: Colloquium >>Date: Tue, Oct 10, 2000, 3:55 PM >> > >>Of course, Dodie's instigative short fiction was provocative enough. And >>Kevin's response, as usual, exhibited all of those qualities for which I've >>begun, increasingly, to admire (&, even, attempt to emulate him). But, on >>the whole, I think the colloquium fell flat because it isn't at all, frankly, >>as so many people on this List assume, the rhetoric of marginality--that is, >>the language of symptoms--that makes the body--or anything else-- dangerous. >>(In fact, we often seem too prone in our discussions, generally, to construct >>a facile "them" in order to accomodate a readymade "us".) Put another way, >>critique, as I've said before, isn't destabilizing. As a form of >>surveillance, critique is both expected and desired by the therapeutic >>bureaucracies of the university, the moderated List Serve, etc., etc. No >>surprise, then, either, that what was always missing in LP was, precisely, >>the *erotic*. In Scalapino, Harryman--or wherever you might think of looking >>to contradict me--there is an entropy at the scale of the body that is, in >>essence, erotically passive. And I couldn't help noticing, among other >>things, the same passivity at the heart of so many of the responses to the >>recent colloquium. >> >>--Jacques ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:56:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Leonard Brink Subject: Fort Worth Reading Series MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NY poet and short story writer Martha King is looking for a reading in Fort Worth, Texas in May of 2001. If anyone knows of a series there, could he or she please forward the info. Her latest book, Little Tales of Family and War, is being released this month on Spuyten Duyvil Press. Additional information about Martha and the book is at www.spuytenduyvil.net Thanks, Cydney Chadwick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:12:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" i love you alan sondheim At 1:36 PM -0400 10/12/00, Alan Sondheim wrote: >=== > > > >write=sex=upon=the=bones=or=shards,=it's=the=best=way=to=scrawl=things= >disappearing=in=their=making;=you've=got=to=read=among=the=scratches= >while=skin=heals=or=shards=crumble=or=carry=hardly=anything,="Panep= >fucked=Tuy=and=she=didn't=want=to" >=== === === === === === === === === === === === === === === >"put=your=hair=on=and=let's=fuck"=broken=works=and=shards;=you've=got=to= >break=thick=edges=and=read=across=the=jagged;=it's=there,=words=are= >disappearing=in=their=making;= >=== === === === === === === === === === === === === === === >you've=got=to=read=among=the=scratches=while:write=sex=upon=the=bones=or= >shards,=it's=the=best=way=to=scrawl=things::"put=your=hair=on=and=let's= >fuck"=broken=works=and=shards;=you've=got=to:write=sex=upon=the=bones=or= >shards,=it's=the=best=way=to=scrawl=things= >=== === === === === === === === === === === === === === === >it's=there,=words=are:=holograph=with=ideogrammar= >=== === === === === === === === === === === === === === === > > >=== === ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:07:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: 9 poets audio on web Comments: To: Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Kelly Writers House is pleased to announce that audio files of 9 poets reading themselves through modernism are now available here: http://www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/9poets.html Each of the nine presentations is separately linked on that page. This has been done explicitly to enable teachers of contemporary and modernist poetry to make these 30-minutes presentations available to their students. The links will be *permanently* at the URL given above. The nine presentations are: Lyn Hejinian on Gertrude Stein Ron Silliman on William Carlos Williams Joan Retallack on Gertrude Stein, Ludwig Wittgenstein, John Cage Charles Bernstein on Walter Benjamin Rachel Blau DuPlessis on Virginia Woolf Erica Hunt on Samuel Beckett & James Baldwin Jena Osman on Charles Reznikoff Bob Perelman on Louis Zukofsky Rae Armantrout on Emily Dickinson We wish to thank these nine poets for their generosity. Conceived by Bob Perelman and Al Filreis, "9 poets" has been funded by the Kelly Writers House, the Modernist Studies Association, and the Creative Writing Program of the Department of English at Penn. Grateful acknowledgment is made to Sharon Felton and Aaron Couch for technological support. For more about the Modernist Studies Association, see: http://www.psu.edu/dept/english/MSA/msa.htm --Al Filreis University of Pennsylvania www.english.upenn.edu/~afilreis ======================= The Kelly Writers House 3805 Locust Walk, Philadelphia (215) 573-WRIT www.english.upenn.edu/~wh ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:55:39 -0800 Reply-To: Andrew@litvert.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Felsinger Organization: -VeRT Subject: Call for Submissions / -VeRT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - V e R T an on-line experimental poetry magazine is issuing this call for submissions. ( Deadline is November 5th! ) We are especially interested in receiving collaborative poems, but remain open to other work. Also would enjoy publishing reviews, essays, poetics, and manifestoes. To visit go to www.litvert.com Submissions can be made either electronically : andrew@litvert.com Or through the mail : - V e R T 405 Serrano Dr. #MB San Francisco, CA 94132 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:07:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: Fence Fall Comments: To: rebecca@poetrysociety.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Announcing Fence #6 Fall/Winter 2000-2001, in bookstores and mailboxes everywhere soon For those in New York or nearby: Please help us celebrate the new issue at a launch reading Wednesday, October 25th, 8 pm Teachers & Writers Collaborative 5 Union Square West Featuring Forrest Gander, D.A. Powell, and Elizabeth Robinson $8 or $12 for a year's subscription Wine Afterward *** Fence #6 features poems and short fiction and criticism and art by (in exhaustive alphabetical order by first name): Andy Mozina, Alice Rose George, Allen Grossman, Amy Woolard, Anne Carson, Belinda Kremer, Ben Doyle, Ben Marcus, Brenda Coultas, Brian Young, Chris Offutt, Christine Deavel, Claire Malroux, Corey Mead. Daniel Kane, David Kellogg, Eben Wood, Eleni Sikelianos, Ellen Sharp, Fanny Howe, Hilary Plattner, Iris Jamahl Johnson, Jaime Saenz, James Galvin, Jean Valentine, Jonathan VanBallenberghe, Karen Volkman, Katy Lederer, Kim Anno, Lacy L. Schutz, Melanie Bogue, Miranda Field, Monica Youn, Pamela Zoline, Paula Fox, Rachel Zucker, Rae Armantrout, Ray DiPalma, Rick Moody, Robyn Schiff, Ross Martin, and Sophie Cabot Black Special Features: A Call for Response: Symposium on Subjectivity and Style (Mark Doty, Claudia Rankine, Marie Howe, Nick Flynn, Tony Hoagland, Leslie Scalapino, Standard Schaefer, Annie Finch, Eileen Myles, Juliana Spahr, and more) The Self in the Poetic Field, by David Kellogg "The novel feature of this structure for poetry is the manner in which the two axes are each formed by the formal and social loci of value. The loci of each axis repel each other. The axes join together in the center so that the two axes map a four-sided field when represented on a two-dimensional plane. One axis maps a set of social possibilities and the other a set of formal possibilities. The field is held in suspense as follows: social locus repels social locus; formal locus repels formal locus." New short fiction by Chris Offutt and Ben Marcus and an excerpt of a story by Paula Fox Two Libretti: one by Anne Carson with collaborative images by artist Kim Anno and one by Pamela Zoline An illustrated Korean Folk Tale by Ellen Sharp *** For those new to this list and wondering what Fence is: visit http://www.bookmouth.com for a brief but incisive interview. Or for a longer version of the story, go to http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/jacket12/wolffe-fence.html If you'd like to be taken off this announcement list, please just email me back "unsubscribe" or some other suitable word and I will do my very best to take you off off off. Please make sure to mention all possible email addresses at which you may be receiving mail. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 09:54:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcella Durand Subject: mad libs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Gender Mad Libs! They're easy and fun! >Of course, Kevin's instigative short fiction was provocative enough. And >Dodie's response, as usual, exhibited all of those qualities for which I've >begun, increasingly, to admire (&, even, attempt to emulate her). >No surprise, then, either, that what was always missing in LP was, precisely, >the *erotic*. In Andrews, Perelman--or wherever you might think of looking >to contradict me--there is an entropy at the scale of the body that is, in >essence, erotically passive. And I couldn't help noticing, among other >things, the same passivity at the heart of so many of the responses to the >recent colloquium. More Mad Libs! More Gender Fun! >would it be fair to say that all great poets (if we can for the moment imagine such a group, and agree to its constituents in the abstract) are philosophers (that is, their work contains important and original ideas about reality, thought, and representation, say) but that not all great philosophers are poets? Which "great" poets might we consider non-philosophers, or poor ones. Loy? H.D.? (Riding) Jackson? Which great philosophers might we consider not to be poets, or to be poor ones? Kristeva? Woolf? Surely, the debate is not happily sited on a discussion of Stein and Cixous, two who are clearly or very arguably established in each camp---and, I might add, in considerable harmony on the issues of authorship, writing, ABSENCE, SILENCE. Mayer is another. And Moore. And who, from either camp, might contest being included in the other: bishop? guest? von freytag-loringhoven? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:02:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: chris stroffolino Subject: Looking for FLUTE Player MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Citizens (or Aliens): I am looking for a flute player or floutist in the NYC area, or who will be in the NYC area in late Nov. and Early Dec. for a one shot night gig---- of a poetry music performance.... (I will say more of this later...) If anybody knows of anybody who plays flute and will be in NYC, please let me know... as soon as possible.... sincerely, Chris Stroffolino ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:04:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matthea Harvey Subject: A READING (wine for drinking, books for buying) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Friends, I am reading for the launch of LIT magazine's third issue. It will also be the first place that my book "Pity the Bathtub Its Forced Embrace of the Hujan Form" will be available--I'm waiting for it to arrive any day now. It would be lovely to see you there. If you can't make it, I'm afraid I'll have one or two more readings to invite you to.... Much love Matthea *THE EVENT* Thursday October 26th, 2000 7:30 pm The National Arts Club 15 Gramercy Park South featuring LIT contributors: Jeffrey Renard Allen Matthea Harvey Maggie Nelson Ravi Shankar for more information, call 212 229 5611 (jacket required--fancy!) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 21:34:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard_Burdick Subject: Trinity Chamber Concerts in Berkeley Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable TimesSaturday, October 14, 2000, 8 p.m. The Mask of Comedy/The Mask of Tragedy Melissa Fogarty, soprano and baroque guitar with Jennifer Griesbach, harpsichord A recital of seventeenth-century Italian music exploring the extremes of, and interplay between, comedy and tragedy.=20 Music of Luigi Rossi, Girolamo Frescobaldi, Barbara Strozzi, Francesca Caccini, Girolamo Carissimi and Giovanni Felice Sances, including a semi-staged performance of Antonio Cesti=92s comic cantata about singing, "Aspettate, addesso, io canto" (Wait, now I=92m going to sing). All Trinity Chamber Concerts take place in Trinity Chapel 2320 Dana Street in Berkeley. Admission is by donation; no one will be turned away for lack of the suggested donation price of $10.00 general and $8.00 for students, seniors, or handicapped. CALL 510-549-3864 for more information. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 11:58:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik Tom Bradley Tom Bradley is widely published with various prose pieces in Slate making pretty much everyone uncomfortable. He can be reached at tomnpeg@interlink.or.jp. RealPoetik also wishes to remind readers that Chaucer's antisemitism is a known quantity of his time and place and requires no further comment; i.e., save yourself the time. Hugh of Provo ...O deere child, I halsen thee, in vertu of the hooly Trinitee, Tel me what is thy cause for to synge, Sith that thy throte is kut to my semynge? --Prioress' Tale, 645-8 A disturbed adolescent daughter of inbred survivalist neighbors creepy-crawls our backyard with her cat. She steals our few grape wads and leaves spoor among the unmown pear mush: Marie Osmond-brand perfume atomizers, toy Tampax tubes. Even allowing for accelerated maturation rates among rural polygamist females I estimate she's too old for toys. Every night, all night, her ashen cat copulates with everything furred the neighborhood has to offer under our bagged air conditioner, though my wife sleeps clear through. These two marauders seep through the drapes in vaporous form and reintegrate on the skin of my chest where the larger, more anthropomorphic one squats in a vulgar position. Something furred, taloned, coils around her plump limbs. She hisses in my ear: Medieval times are coming to your neighborhood, Tom. Your Catholic spouse who accepts spirits and so can dismiss them will snore through it all. But you, you aging acid head, with your hoed rows of secular humanist psilocybin cubensis, you're in for it. Walpurgisnacht will erupt in the dark, not mushrooms. We will turn into a sweet-singing boy and you into a Jew. The fiberglass of your greenhouse will melt down into a cesspool and we'll see who seduces whom. Tom Bradley ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:53:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Rice, Clai" Subject: Re: Post Neotextualism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" http://www.elsewhere.org/cgi-bin/postmodern/ "The essay you have probably just seen is completely meaningless and was randomly generated by the Postmodernism Generator. To generate another essay, follow this link." What fun! --Clai Rice -----Original Message----- From: michael amberwind Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 2:03 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Post Neotextualism "Class is responsible for sexism," says Marx; however, according to Brophy, it is not so much class that is responsible for sexism, but rather the failure, and thus the meaninglessness, of class. But if capitalism holds, we have to choose between semanticist socialism and prematerial textual theory. If one examines neodialectic nihilism, one is faced with a choice: either accept capitalism or conclude that concensus is a product of communication. The subject is contextualised into a cultural desemioticism that includes truth as a totality. However, the characteristic theme of the works of Pynchon is a self-fulfilling paradox. In the works of Pynchon, a predominant concept is the distinction between closing and opening. Capitalism holds that culture is part of the failure of language. It could be said that d'Erlette suggests that we have to choose between subcapitalist nationalism and dialectic appropriation. The main theme of Parry's analysis of dialectic nationalism is the bridge between society and sexual identity. Foucault suggests the use of capitalism to challenge class divisions. However, Sontag uses the term 'posttextual dialectic theory' to denote not, in fact, theory, but subtheory. If capitalism holds, we have to choose between the neotextual paradigm of concensus and deconstructivist precapitalist theory. Thus, Sartre promotes the use of semanticist socialism to deconstruct and analyse society. Several narratives concerning capitalism exist. It could be said that Marx uses the term 'dialectic nationalism' to denote the role of the reader as observer. The subject is interpolated into a semanticist socialism that includes truth as a whole. Therefore, Lyotard suggests the use of dialectic nationalism to challenge hierarchy. An abundance of discourses concerning the difference between class and sexuality may be discovered. In a sense, Derrida promotes the use of capitalism to read class. A number of narratives concerning dialectic nationalism exist. It could be said that d'Erlette implies that we have to choo se between capitalism and the patriarchial paradigm of narrative. Any number of theories concerning the fatal flaw, and eventually the futility, of neocapitalist society may be revealed. However, the subject is contextualised into a dialectic nationalism that includes art as a paradox. Dialectic discourse and subcultural dialectic theory. "Sexual identity is used in the service of capitalism," says Foucault; however, according to Tilton, it is not so much sexual identity that is used in the service of capitalism, but rather the stasis, and subsequent paradigm, of sexual identity. The primary theme of the works of Eco is the common ground between class and sexual identity. It could be said that the futility, and eventually the fatal flaw, of subcultural dialectic theory prevalent in Eco's Foucault's Pendulum is also evident in The Aesthetics of Thomas Aquinas, although in a more mythopoetical sense. Marx's essay on Lacanist obscurity holds that the Constitution is capable of truth. Thus, Bataille uses the term 'dialectic nationalism' to denote a dialectic whole. Many dematerialisms concerning subcultural dialectic theory exist. However, the main theme of Cameron's model of capitalist discourse is the futility, and therefore the absurdity, of neotextual society. Of course, I could be wrong and invite List input on the matter. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:42:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: greg Subject: Charles Borkhuis and Alicia Askenase Highwire Reading @ La Tazza Comments: To: FPR@history.upenn.edu, fuller@center.cbpp.org, GasHeart@aol.com, gbiglier@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, gmarder@hotmail.com, gnawyouremu@hotmail.com, goodwina@xoommail.com, HighwireGallery@aol.com, hstarr@dept.english.upenn.edu, hthomas@Kutztown.edu, icepalace@mindspring.com, insekt@earthlink.net, ivy2@sas.upenn.edu, jeng1@earthlink.net, jennifer_coleman@edf.org, jimstone2@juno.com, jjacks02@astro.ocis.temple.edu, JKasdorf@mcis.messiah.edu, JKeita@aol.com, jlutt3@pipeline.com, jmasland@pobox.upenn.edu, JMURPH01@email.vill.edu, johnfattibene@juno.com, josman@astro.ocis.temple.edu, jschwart@thunder.ocis.temple.edu, jvitiell@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, jwatkins@unix.temple.edu, kelly@dept.english.upenn.edu, Kjvarrone@aol.com, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, kristing@pobox.upenn.edu, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, kyle.conner@mail.tju.edu, kzeman@sas.upenn.edu, lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu, lcary@dept.english.upenn.edu, leo@isc.upenn.edu, lgoldst@dept.english.upenn.edu, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, llisayau@hotmail.com, lorabloom@erols.com, lsoto@sas.upenn.edu, MARCROB2000@hotmail.com, marf@netaxs.com, matthart@english.upenn.edu, Matthew.McGoldrick@ibx.com, mbmc@op.net, Measurelvis@aol.com, melodyjoy2@hotmail.com, mgpiety@drexel.edu, mholley@brynmawr.edu, michaelmccool@hotmail.com, miyamorik@aol.com, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, mnichol6@osf1.gmu.edu, mollyruss@juno.com, mopehaus@hotmail.com, MTArchitects@compuserve.com, mytilij@english.upenn.edu, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, nawi@citypaper.net, odonnell@siam.org, penwaves@mindspring.com, pla@sas.upenn.edu, poetry4peeps@hotmail.com, putnamc@washpost.com, QDEli@aol.com, rachelmc@sas.upenn.edu, rdupless@vm.temple.edu, rediguanas@erols.com, repohead@rattapallax.com, richardfrey@dca.net, robinh5@juno.com, ron.silliman@gte.net, SeeALLMUSE@aol.com, sernak@juno.com, Sfrechie@aol.com, singinghorse@erols.com, stewart@dept.english.upenn.edu, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu, susan.wheeler@nyu.edu, SusanLanders@yahoo.com, swalker@dept.english.upenn.edu, Ron.Swegman@mail.tju.edu, Tasha329@aol.com, tdevaney@brooklyn.cuny.edu, thorpe@sas.upenn.edu, travmar03@msn.com, twells4512@aol.com, upword@mindspring.com, v2139g@vm.temple.edu, vhanson@netbox.com, vmehl99@aol.com, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, wvanwert@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, wwhitman@libertynet.org, ywisher@hotmail.com, zurawski@astro.temple.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" HIGHWIRE READINGS NOW AT LA TAZZA 108 Chestnut Street, Philadelphia in Old City between 2nd and Front Streets Every other Saturday @ 6:30 PM The 1999-2000 Highwire Anthology is available, just ask for it. October 21 Alicia Askenase and Charles Borkhuis Alicia Askenase curates the readings at the Walt Whitman Center on Rutgers University campus in Camden, NJ. Charlse Borkhuis has two new books available, Mouth of Shadows (Spuyten Duyvil Press, 2000) and Alpha Ruins (Bucknell University Press, 2000). November 4 Ixnay Magazine Benefit for Issue 5 The bash for the new issue will tasty affair featuring readings from Jena Osman, Frank Sherlock, and Kevin Varrone. Save your milk money to buy a new Ixnay and Kevin Varrone's new book. November 18 Don Riggs and Wendy Kramer Don Riggs is the man behind many Philadelphia contemporary writers. Wendy Kramer reads from sculptures she makes out of found materials. December 2 Fran Ryan and Prageeta Sharma Fran Ryan is writing a book literally about the politics of labor and figuratively about Philadelphia trash workers. Prageeta Sharma's Bliss To Fill (Subpress, 2000) is one of the hottest selling books on the Subpress list. Don't miss her. December 16 Janet Mason and Anselm Berrigan Janet Mason will make you crack up laughing and send you home thinking. Anselm Berrigan is our holiday gift for you, our faithful followers. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:53:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Fiona Maazel Subject: RS READING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please join us next Tuesday, October 24th, for readings by: GARY LUTZ (STORIES IN THE WORST WAY) and=20 SAM LIPSYTE (VENUS DRIVE) at The Russian Samovar 256 West 52nd St (btwn 8th and Broadway) 7:00 pm $3.00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- (If you'd like to be removed from this list, that can be arranged. To = those who've asked repeatedly and in vain, I apologize.) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 12:49:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dickison Subject: BIG WEEK with THE POETRY CENTER: bell hooks (Tues-Wed Oct 17th & 18th); Ed Roberson & Nathaniel Mackey (Thurs Oct 19th); Robert Creeley (Fri Oct 20th) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BIG WEEK with THE POETRY CENTER The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives presents bell hooks: two nights, Tuesday & Wednesday October 17 & 18, 8:00 pm @ Intersection for the Arts Ed Roberson & Nathaniel Mackey, Thursday October 19, 7:30 pm @ Unitarian Cen= ter Robert Creeley, Friday October 20, 7:30 pm @ Gershwin Theater, USF =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Two nights with bell hooks Writer-in-Residence Tuesday-Wednesday, October 17 & 18, 8:00 pm $5-$15 suggested donation @ Intersection, 446 Valencia St. Presented in collaboration with Intersection for the Arts bell hook--renowned writer, feminist, activist, and cultural criti--is the author of such powerful and influential books as _Ain't I A Woman_, _Black Looks_, _Teaching to Transgress_, and _Killing Rage: Ending Racism_, and several volumes of autobiography. Recently named by the Utne Reader as one of "100 Visionaries Who Could Change Your Life," Ms. hooks is devoted to fostering critical consciousness through her writing and speaking engagements. Her latest books are _All About Love: New Visions_ (William Morrow, 1999), _Where We Stand: Class Matters_ (Routledge, September 2000) and _Feminism is For Everybody: A Passionate Politic_ (South End Press, October 2000). Distinguished Professor of English at City College in New York, she lives in New York City. *** Seats in Intersection's intimate 90-seat theater will be available for both evenings on a first-come, first-serve basis. No advance reservations. Call Intersection for details: (415) 626-3311. *** "bell hooks is a voice that forces us to confront the political undercurrent of life in America." --The New York Times Book Review =46irst night: Tuesday, October 17, 8:00 pm, at Intersection bell hooks in conversation with Amalia Mesa-Bains (visual artist, MacArthur =46ellow, & Director of the Institute of Visual & Public Art, CSU Monterey Bay). A discussion on the ways in which community, love, and compassion are made manifest in visual art. Second night: Wednesday, October 18, 8:00 pm, at Intersection bell hooks reading from & discussing her recent book, _All About Love: New Visions_ (William Morrow & Co., 1999). =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D An evening with poets ED ROBERSON & NATHANIEL MACKEY Thursday, October 19, 7:30 pm, $5 donation @ the Unitarian Center 1187 Franklin (at Geary) ED ROBERSON's wonderful new book, _Atmosphere Conditions_ (Sun & Moon, 2000), was selected by Nathaniel Mackey for publication in the prestigious National Poetry Series. "Atmosphere, omen, memory, lost amenity, homelessness of more than one sort, instantaneity, cityscape, housing of more than one sort, dream, social entropy, music, dance, death-these are among the matters which move through the poems with revenant, mercurial dispatch. . . . work of unremitting mindfulness and reach." His _Voices Cast Out to Talk Us In_ was winner of the 1995 Iowa Poetry Prize, and _Just In/Word of Navigational Challenges: New and Selected Poems_ was published by Talisman Books. Mr. Roberson lives in New Brunswick, New Jersey. NATHANIEL MACKEY's latest book of poetry is _Whatsaid Serif_ (City Lights), an extension of the long poetic work he calls "Song of the Andoumboulou." His third novel, _Atet A.D._ (forthcoming from City Lights), likewise continues Mr. Mackey's engagement in an on-going, epic-length work, in this instance the epistolary fiction "From a Broken Bottle, Traces of Perfume Still Emanate." _Discrepant Engagement_, a critical work exploring conjunctions between radical Black poetics of recent decades and the New American Poetry, is new in paperback from the University of Alabama. Mr. Mackey edits _Hambone_ magazine, and lives in Santa Cruz, where he teaches literature at UCSC. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D An evening with ROBERT CREELEY =46riday, October 20, 7:30 pm, free @ The Ira and Leonore S. Gershwin Theater 2350 Turk Boulevard (at Masonic) presented in collaboration with Readings at Lone Mountain, the M.F.A. Writing Program at the University of San Francisco Consummate American master ROBERT CREELEY returns to San Francisco for a special Friday evening reading in the 500-seat Gershwin Theater (free admission). o Mr. Creeley's latest collection of new work, _Life & Death_ (New Directions, 1998), is one of the outstanding new books of poetry to appear in recent year--with its brilliant opening sequence "Histoire de =46lorida" among his surest poetic work. Robert Creeley lives in Buffalo, New York. He has--since the 1950s and his activities out of Black Mountain College--been exceptionally influential as a writer and singularly present to the art of the contemporary poem and the attentions of the poet. This past summer he was recognized by the Before Columbus Foundation with its Lifetime Achievement Award. His remarks on receiving that award read, in part: "All writers have 'the dream of a common language,' as Adrienne Rich has so movingly emphasized-a world, and a voice therein, not separated by dislocating habits of authority or reference. Far more than 'being heard,' so to speak, one dreams of a world in which one can oneself hear, clearly, particularly, commonly-in a company of others which moves far beyond the limits of oneself." Concurrent with Mr. Creeley's San Francisco visit, the touring exhibition _In Company: Robert Creeley's Collaborations_, focusing on his collaborations with artists throughout his career -among them Georg Baselitz, John Chamberlain, Francesco Clemente, Jim Dine, Robert Indiana, Alex Katz, R. B. Kitaj, Marisol, Susan Rothenberg, and Donald Sultan. The first exhibition to show these collaborative works together as a group, the show opens September 1 at Green Library, Stanford University, and will be on view through January 6, 2001. The exhibition includes prints, drawings, mixed media works, books, photographs, and correspondence. Check the New York Public Library's press for the show http://www.nypl.org/admin/pro/press/creeley.html, and at Stanford, http://www-sul.stanford.edu/depts/diroff/news/august18/august18.html#two (For further information on the Stanford exhibit contact Becky Fischbach, Department of Special Collections, Stanford University Libraries, tel 650-725-1020.) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D LOCATIONS INTERSECTION FOR THE ARTS is located at 446 Valencia Street north of 16th St. 1 & 1/2 blocks from 16th St. BART Station off-street parking in lot off 16th between Valencia & Mission THE UNITARIAN CENTER is located at 1187 Franklin St. at the corner of Geary on-street parking opens up at 7:00 pm from downtown SF, take the Geary bus to Franklin THE IRA & LENORE S. GERSHWIN THEATER is located at 2350 Turk Boulevard (west of Masonic) off-street parking is available for $5 ask at guard shack, entrance to Lone Mountain campus on Turk for MUNI bus schedule call 415-673-6864 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D SFSU students and Poetry Center members get in free. The Poetry Center's programs are supported by funding from Grants for the Arts-Hotel Tax Fund of the City of San Francisco, the California Arts Council, the National Endowment for the Arts, Poets & Writers, Inc., and The Fund for Poetry, as well as by the College of Humanities at San =46rancisco State University, and by donations from our members. Join us! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ vox 415-338-3401 ~ fax 415-338-0966 http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:00:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: [This] Friday: Treadwell & Greenberg reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable make this Friday a =B3Lost Friday=B2 20 October 20 October 20 October Elizabeth Treadwell & Arielle Greenberg 20 October 20 October 20 October Elizabeth Treadwell is the author of -Populace- (avec books, 1999); editor of -Outlet- and Double Lucy Books, and director of Small Press Traffic . Arielle Greenberg has poems forthcoming in -Verse-, -Volt-, -Lit-, -The Hat-, and -Pleaides-; her essay on Levity in the poems of Barbara Guest will appear this spring in -Women's Studies-. 20 October 20 October 20 October 20 October 8:00 pm Rust Belt Books 202 Allen Street, Buffalo NY -- Special thanks to Robert Creeley, the Samuel P. Capen Chair of Poetry and Humanities, and to Charles Bernstein, the David Gray Chair of Poetry and Letters at SUNY Buffalo; and to Brian Lampkin, who sits on a chair or stool behind the counter at Rust Belt Books. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:30:20 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Four Square Space: for Mr Massey etal. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 =20 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:15:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Linda Russo Subject: How2 current issue & archive on the web MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ================================================ How2.How2.How2.How2.How.2.How2.How2.How2.How2.How2 ================================================ NOW ON-LINE How2 : n.4 Continuing to read & report on innovative writing and scholarship by contemporary and modernist women . interviews . mixed media Editor/Publisher: Kathleen Fraser Mg. Editor: Jo Ann Wasserman, Webmaster: Roberta Sims How2 http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/stadler_center/how2 For further info: , =============================================== In this issue ------------ *new writing portfolio, guest-edited by Carla Harryman *"livres de poetes"--one-of-a-kind poets' books, curated by Dale Going *excerpts from _My Paris_ by Gail Scott, with interview by Corey Frost *forum: Taking Risks in Critical Writing--impermissable in the academy?? *in-conference: featuring Part 2 papers from contemporary> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Orange Subject: looking for simon schuchat MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII if anyone is in contact with simon schuchat please backchannel me or let him know that i'm trying to get in touch with him. thanks, t. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:28:37 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jacques Debrot Subject: Re: Colloquium MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/16/00 8:00:45 PM, damon001@TC.UMN.EDU writes: << Jacques: out of curiosity: what writing (about) sexuality/the body *doesn't* enact or reproduce "an entropy at the scale of the body that is, in essence, erotically passive"? >> Maria: Exactly the right question. How about: Shakespeare, Blake, Whitman . . . Plath . . . Weiner (--with her, I mean, is the writing so entropically dedifferentiated that we respond to it, finally, as an *aggression*--erotic or otherwise? What do you think?). But, of course, I don't think that the entropy I mentioned in my earlier post is necessarily a negative thing. As a matter of fact, Scalapino and Harryman (in particular), are among my very favorite contemporary poets. In their work, "lethargy," to quote Robert Smithson, is, arguably, "raised to [a] glorious magnitude." Unfortunately, they both have a didactic streak that, when it kicks in (as a defense, perhaps, against their own potential complicity w/ the prevailing *cultural* entropy and decadence of our fin de siecle) makes their work a lot less interesting & fun--for me at least. In a message dated 10/12/00 4:25:16 PM, cstroffo@EARTHLINK.NET writes: <> Chris: This compulsion to pronounce a discourse on the body, to take it *into account*, remains, I would suggest--in Foucaultian terms--a "police" matter. Sexuality--or the body--thus becomes a *problem* (and not only in the recent symposium, but as implied by yr question itself, I believe)--one which requires a *solutit the body, write about it *persuasively*--that is, *beautifully* (in the sense, again, of Dave Hickey's discussion of Mapplethorpe, Caravaggio, et al. in his terrific book _The Invisible Dragon_--about which I wish I had the time to give a precis of here). I think it's as simple, and as difficult, as that. --Jacques ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:33:38 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jacques Debrot Subject: garbled post MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apologies. The end of my post should read: Chris: This compulsion to pronounce a discourse on the body, to take it *into account*, remains, I would suggest--in Foucaultian terms--a "police" matter. Sexuality--or the body--thus becomes a *problem* (and not only in the recent symposium, but as implied by yr question itself, I believe)--one which requires a *solution. If you want to write about the body, write about it *persuasively*--that is, *beautifully* (in the sense, again, of Dave Hickey's discussion of Mapplethorpe, Caravaggio, et al. in his terrific book _The Invisible Dragon_--about which I wish I had the time to give a precis of here). I think it's as simple, and as difficult, as that. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:28:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: Notice: Mudlark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII New and On View: Mudlark Flash No. 7 (2000) James Bertolino Assault Charisma | Returning to the Valley James Bertolino teaches Creative Writing at Western Washington University. His latest books are 26 POEMS FROM SNAIL RIVER (Egress Studio Press) and GREATEST HITS: 1965-2000, a chapbook from Pudding House Publications in Ohio. Last year the Contemporary American Poetry Archive at Connecticut College reprinted, online, his book MAKING SPACE FOR OUR LIVING (Copper Canyon Press 1975). Earlier volumes include both FIRST CREDO and SNAIL RIVER in the Quarterly Review of Literature Poetry Series and NEW & SELECTED POEMS from Carnegie Mellon University Press. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter _________________ MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:06:29 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jacques Debrot Subject: Re: mad libs, O'Hara, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 10/16/00 8:02:50 PM, MDurand@PRIMEDIASI.COM writes: << the *erotic*. In Andrews, Perelman--or wherever you might think of looki= ng >to contradict me-- >> Marcella, In mentioning Harryman's & Scalapino's writing in my post (as=20 opposed to Perelman's & Andrews'), I was citing what were, to me, the most=20 persuasive examples of the erotic in LP, rather than, in fact, meaning to=20 diss the girrrrls. <> At a time when question of what an author is and what an author does has=20 taken on a renewed mystery and urgency, why should "harmony" on this questio= n=20 be encouraging? Moreover, "ABSENCE, SILENCE, " etc. seem, to me, to have= =20 become, in fact, too easy. I mean, for a creative writer, there's no longer= =20 any bite left. The more interesting alternative: finding ways to be=20 **psychologically present in the poem**, but, at the same time, w/out fallin= g=20 into the trap of the "expressive fallacy." Frank O'Hara is relevant here, I= =20 think. Compared to the materialistic rigor of LP, the occassionally=20 claustrophobic attitude of O=92Hara=92s poetry (much of it squarely in the=20 blindspot, in the late 70s and 80s, of =93holy fools=94 like Jim Brodey) had= to=20 come off, 20 yrs ago--somewhat contradictorily--as either =93too personal= =94 or=20 =93too social.=94 But, like ends meeting, the dicey, empirical intimacy of=20 O=92Hara links up perfectly with the skeptical, and subtlely outer-directed=20 intimacy characteristic of what I consider to be the most interesting recent= =20 writing. Breaking with the generational pattern of a signature poetic style= ,=20 O=92Hara=92s openness to a multiplicity of impulses, high and low, from comi= c=20 books and the movies to Mayakovsky and dada, anticipates, moreover, a=20 distinctly postmodern tastelesness. This is not bad taste, exactly, but no=20 taste. His best work=97the =93Odes,=94 =93Biotherm,=94 and =93In Memory of=20= My Feelings,=94=20 etc.=97is hedged, for this reason=97even at moments of profligate beauty=97w= ith=20 occassionally flagrant limitations and conflicts. But, apart from the chief= =20 compensating virtue of his work, derived from the example of Abstract=20 Expressionism=97and from Jackson Pollock=92s paintings in particular=97of=20 registering the accumulation of specific decisions that, in simultaneously=20 adding up and canceling out (almost moment-by-moment), =93restore,=94 in O= =92Hara=92s=20 own words, =93the intangible quality of incidents which are all too concrete= =20 and circumstantial=94--O=92Hara=92s writing=97in its very superficiality=97p= ossesses a=20 strongly impersonal energy experienced as the intense activity of,=20 apparently, nothing. In other words, his problem was, like ours is, how to=20 sustain an aesthetics without a heirarchy of values or a scale of importance= .=20 So he writes, then, out of the experience of contradiction & disorder--the=20 fundamental and uncanny condition of contemporary life (rather than out of=20 the anaestheses of absence & silence). As much as the 60s are a kind of=20 Rubicon, it's from there, I think, that the most provocative--& timely--=20 aesthetic hints can be taken.=20 --Jacques ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:26:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: of -|-|- MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII -|-|- of -|-|- wheel -|-|- yoke -|-|- spoke -|-|- axletree -|-|- lathe -|-|- inner reins of a team of three horses -|-|- end of the main axle projecting beyond the hub -|-|- yoke with a bent end -|-|- partition frame of a carriage -|-|- wheel of a cart -|-|- hood of a cart -|-|- shaft roller -|-|- two wheels of an axletree -|-|- leaning board -|-|- for carrying earth -|-|- spoke of a wheel -|-|- two pieces of wood keeping the axle firm on both sides underneath the cart -|-|- spoke of a wheel -|-|- rumbling of wheels -|-|- board on both sides of a wagon -|-|- metal cap on the hub -|-|- circular rim of a wheel -|-|- grease pot hung at the axle to grease the wheel -|-|- cross- bar at the end of a shaft of a big carriage -|-|- spoke of a wheel -|-|- board beneath the leaning-board -|-|- wheel and axle -|-|- catch for stopping a wheel -|-|- crossbar at the end of the pole of a carriage -|-|- end of the axle protected by metal -|-|- distance between two wheels of a cart -|-|- carter -|-|- of -|-|- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:15:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Organization: @Home Network Subject: call for work Comments: To: British poets , "subsubpoetics@listbot.com" , "poetryetc@mailbase.ac.uk" , "webartery@onelist.com" , "wr-eye-tings wr-eye-tings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit excuse cross posting perhaps more phenomenological than most are comfortable with but poetry does affect the world (or at least the writer) Call for submissions for exhibit on Metaphor/Metonym for Health. Art, webart,poetry, visual poetry. Metaphor/Metonym for Health At least since Homer poetry and art have been seen as potentially healing actions. This site has been set up to display work by poets, artists, and people with chronic difficulties who have been helped by the process of writing or drawing through them ....http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm. tom bell trbell@home.com -- Life designs: http://trbell.tripod.com/lifedesigns/ Art, poetry, webpoetry done by people with chronic physical or mental problems (work that helped) at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_/??????????///-_ SOULSOLESOLO <<<]]][[[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]}}}}+++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 01:25:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Second Multi-Literary Event at the Flying Saucer Cafe! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII === Second Multi-Literary Event at the Flying Saucer Cafe! Alan and Nada are pleased to announce the second event in a new reading/video series in Brooklyn at The Flying Saucer Cafe at 494 Atlantic Avenue, between Third Avenue and Nevins Friday, November 3, 8:00 p.m.: ****Brenda Iijima and Tom Zummer**** Brenda Iijima is the author of _Person(a)_ and _Epitome_ (Portable Press). Iijima is presently designing a community project to take place Saturday, November 18th from 10:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m. in Prospect Heights. A self-guided tour visits ten stoops, each exhibiting a poem from her series titled _STEP_. Thomas Zummer is "...one of the most protean and perplexingly multi- tasking artists currently at work in America...", according to Adrian Dannatt in The Art Newspaper., "...a underground legend" in certain corners of the New York art and literary arena. Zummer will read from old and new, published and unpublished texts. Included will be excerpts from "What the Hell is That?," "The Computer as a Blunt Instrument," "Dispar- ity of Scale in Cinematic Taxa," and "Road Movie." There will also be a projected video piece in conjunction with the reading. How to get there: Take the 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or D or Q to the Atlantic Subway stop and walk underground to the Pacific Street exit (at the N or R or M Pacific Street Stop) or take the B or N or R or M - in any case, go out the Pacific Street Exit (right exit), take a right - at the end of the block you will be on Atlantic Ave. Take a left on Atlantic, and about two and a half blocks down, between Third and Nevins, you will find the Flying Saucer Cafe. $3 donation. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:17:29 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Tranter Subject: Copyright Agency Limited, Australia, gives away money! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Members may be interested in the following Press release from CAL Australia: _________________ Record $21.4M available for copyright owners Thousands of authors, journalists, artists, publishers and other copyright owners will be eligible to claim more than $21 million from Copyright Agency Limited's distribution of copying licence fees this year, CAL's Chief Executive, Michael Fraser, announced today. "CAL, a not-for-profit copyright management company, began distributing payments to copyright owners in 1989. Since then we have made available more than $130 million to our members for copying of their works," he said. "This year's record $21.4 million declaration represents a new benchmark in CAL's history of successfully managing rights clearances on behalf of hundreds of thousands of creators and producers. "At least twice a year, CAL declares the sum we can distribute to CAL members, based on licence fees we collect from organisations which copy text and images. Extensive surveys of our licensees' photocopying practices identify who is eligible to receive payment from CAL," Mr Fraser said. "This week we will begin notifying more than 4,000 rights owners that they may claim their share of $17.5 million from our mid-year distribution, which was collected from school, university, TAFE (Technical and Further Education) and church copying licences. "The data which forms the basis of the 2000 mid-year distribution was drawn from almost 75,000 copying records, which identify nearly 7.3 million copied pages. "CAL members who earn the most from our copyright management include authors of school and university textbooks, journalists and publishers. "In this distribution, 41% of recipients are 'author' members of CAL (a category which includes writers, journalists, artists and photographers) and 58% are 'publisher' members. The other 1% [one per cent] of recipients are other collecting societies or rights owners who cannot be identified at this stage. "CAL is clearly doing the job it was established to do. We return more than 80% of the licence fees we collect to our members, a figure that compares very well with local and overseas copyright collecting societies," he said. "However, one of our challenges is identifying and making contact with all eligible author, artist and publisher recipients. "Many of the rights owners identified in our surveys are not yet members of CAL but we will keep trying to contact these recipients and invite them to apply for membership. "Also, some of the records of photocopying we receive are incomplete, while in other cases it can be very difficult to locate people who have moved. CAL will continue to research these records in a bid to identify and pay rightsowners. "All authors and publishers who control the rights in their works are eligible to apply for membership of CAL and claim payment if their work appears in CAL's copying records. "Non-members considering joining CAL to claim their share of a distribution should bear in mind that membership is free and there is no assignment of rights to CAL," Mr Fraser said. Media contact Charles Maddison Media Relations Officer Phone: 02 - 9394 7684 (w) Copyright Agency Limited 0417 - 652 613 (m) from John Tranter Editor, Jacket magazine: http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/ - new John Tranter homepage - poetry, reviews, articles, at: http://www.austlit.com/johntranter/ - ancient history - the late sixties - at: http://setis.library.usyd.edu.au/tranter/index.html ______________________________________________ 39 Short Street, Balmain NSW 2041, Sydney, Australia tel (+612) 9555 8502 fax (+612) 9818 8569 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:53:47 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Prageeta Sharma Subject: UPCOMING EVENTS @ Ethan Cohen FIne Arts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FALL SEASON @ ETHAN COHEN FINE ARTS October 26-November 10, 2000 FROM MAO TO NOW=20 Artists interpretation of Mao Ze Dong: Artists include: Zhang Hongtu. Han Xin, Wang Keping, Ken Brown=20 Gu Wenda, Xing Fei, Pan Xing Lei, Xu Bing, Andy Warhol HALLOWEEN MASQUERADE BALL October 26, 8-10pm (Opening of FROM MAO TO NOW) Friday, November 3rd, 7pm FRANCE AND CHINA READING Chinese poet Yunte Huang and French poet Yves Charnet will read from their=20 work. Yunte Huang, author of SHI : A Radical Reading of Chinese Poetry (Roof,=20 1997), Transpacific Displacement (U. of California Press, forthcoming), and=20 translator of Ezra Pound's Pisan Cantos in Chinese. Graduate of SUNY=20 Buffalo's Poetics Program, Huang is now Assistant Professor of English at=20 Harvard. Yves Charnet is the author of Proses du fils ( 1993), Rien, la vie=20= (=20 1994 ) and Coeur furieux ( 1998 ) published by La Table Ronde publishing=20 house.=20 Cosponsored with the Segue Foundation Thursday November16-December 16, 2000 NEW YORK PROJECTS:=20 JEANNIE WEISSGLASS & MARC LESTER YU Opening November 16, 2000 6-8pm Jeannie Weissglass and Marc Lester Yu, upper and lower galleries Jeannie Weissglass=92s SWISH, a collection of oil paintings and Marc Lester Yu=92s PAT THE BUNNY, an installation of vinyl=20 and mixed media running through December 16, 2000. =20 37 Walker Street (between Church and Broadway) New York New York 212-625-125= 0 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:17:04 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Aime Cesaire In-Reply-To: <72.3d53e68.27189244@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" thank god thank god for the content your message. when i saw your subject line i thought it was going to be an obituary. can the person who tells bob how to contact cesaire cc me pls? At 12:28 PM -0400 10/13/00, Nuyopoman@aol.com wrote: >Can anyone help me contact Cesaire? >Please back channel -- thanks! > >Bob Holman > >Bob Holman * 173 Duane St #2 NY NY 10013 * 212-334-6414 Fax: 6415 >holman@bard.edu * nuyopoman@aol.com * poetry.about.com >poetry.guide@about.com * www.worldofpoetry.org >bholman@washingtonsquarearts.com * www.peoplespoetry.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:40:19 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jumper Bloom Subject: sonnets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hello. I am curious what people's favorite sonnets are. --Jumper Bloom _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:53:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: Re: Aime Cesaire In-Reply-To: <72.3d53e68.27189244@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Speaking of Cesaire -- There's a three part documentary on Cesaire made by the same woman who directed "Sugar Cane Alley" -- It is available on three video cassettes for a reasonable sum -- has much valuable footage and extensive interviews (though not enough on poetry for my taste) " Subjects hinder talk." -- Emily Dickinson Aldon Lynn Nielsen Fletcher Jones Chair of Literature and Writing Loyola Marymount University 7900 Loyola Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90045-8215 (310) 338-3078 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:13:11 -0600 Reply-To: maryangeline@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Angeline Subject: ANNE WALDMAN TRIBUTE: past student writing solicitation Comments: To: sfd@sfd.at Comments: cc: poproj@artomatic.com, l_u_p_u_s@gmx.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hello Out There My name is Mary Angeline and I'm making a poem for the "Anne Waldman Tribute" which will be held at The BUG in Denver,CO. Sat @ 8.00pm Oct 21,2000. I am soliciting writing from ANNE's STUDENTS...short narratives on personal experience as student would be appropriate/short poem/stuff you learned/what did you take away from her/what did she give you? Tell it and tell it FAST and tell yr friends who may have studied with her/know her work etc. I need this by email Midnight Thursday Oct 19th. I look forward to hearing from you and will email you the completed poem after the event. Thank You, Mary Angeline p.s. Does anyone out there know Richard Weekly he is the editor of Vol.? If so will you please forward this email to him? HURRY AND WRITE! --- Mary Angeline --- maryangeline@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 17:43:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: Sweet Lorine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Can one of you Niedecker experts please settle something for me? Is her name pronounced "LorEEn" or "Lor EYEn"? For some reason, the on-line encyclopedia people whose computers are teaching my students how to pronounce everythin else have overlooked this crucial entry. " Subjects hinder talk." -- Emily Dickinson Aldon Lynn Nielsen Fletcher Jones Chair of Literature and Writing Loyola Marymount University 7900 Loyola Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90045-8215 (310) 338-3078 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 06:57:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Smylie Subject: Invitation Comments: To: barr@home.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barry Smylie and Jim Andrews invite you to engage a new entertaining, experimental, interactive music animation Rude Little (song) http://barrysmylie.com/director/rudelittle/rude01.htm (beta test: return e-mail comments, suggestions, and criticisms welcomed) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:21:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Orange Subject: dcpoetry.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hello all, please visit http://www.dcpoetry.com construction is now underway on anthology 2001, which so far features writing by Kristen Prevallet, Lisa Robertson, and Lytle Shaw. our anthology 2000 features work by Mary Burger, Zophia Burr, Kyle Conner, Tom Devaney, Jean Donnelly, Marcella Durand, Greg Fuchs, Valerie L. Hanson, Hiram Larew, Melanie Neilson, Lee Riley-Hammer & Mel Nichols, Kaia Sand, James Sherry, Lesley Smith, Rod Smith, Susan Tichy, Chris Vitiello, Shawn Walker, David Baratier, Joseph Battaglia, Allison Cobb, Jen Coleman, C.A. Conrad, Connie Deanovich, Buck Downs, Stephen Fitzpatrick, Policeman Fox, Ethan Fugate, Michael Gizzi, Jen Hofer, Adeena Karasick, Susan Landers, Gillian McCain, Tom Orange, C.E. Putnam, Standard Schaefer, and Mark Wallace. ++print version forthcoming: stay tuned for details! ++also, many reviews of last year's readings are online. also forthcoming: oral history project, with contributions from present and former d.c. poets on how they see/saw the scene. readings this month: ++Jean Donnelly and Rod Smith Wed October 25 at Jenny 2/George Washington U. ++Kevin Davies and Buck Downs book launch for kevin's _comp._ and bucks' _marijuana softdrink_ Sun October 29 at Bridge Street Books ++Heather Ramsdell and Rod Smith Sat November 11 at Ruthless Grip ++Robert Creeley Tues November 14 at Lannan/Georgetown U. ++Allison Cobb, Jennifer Coleman and Tina Darragh Sun November 19 at in your ear / d.c.a.c. ++Chris Stroffolino and Mark Wallace Sun November 19 at Bridge Street Books dcpoetry.com is hosted by duration press. thanks and enjoy, tom orange ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:46:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: Sweet Lorine In-Reply-To: <4.1.20001017174108.0099dbb0@lmumail.lmu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've always heard it (& pronounced it) as Lo-REEn, but then I'm just a furreener & what do i know -- Pierre ________________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris The postmodern is the condition of those 6 Madison Place things not equal to themselves, the wan- Albany NY 12202 dering or nomadic null set (0={x:x not-equal x}). Tel: (518) 426-0433 Fax: (518) 426-3722 Alan Sondheim Email: joris@csc.albany.edu Url: ____________________________________________________________________________ _ -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu]On Behalf Of Nielsen, Aldon Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 8:43 PM To: POETICS@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu Subject: Sweet Lorine Can one of you Niedecker experts please settle something for me? Is her name pronounced "LorEEn" or "Lor EYEn"? For some reason, the on-line encyclopedia people whose computers are teaching my students how to pronounce everythin else have overlooked this crucial entry. " Subjects hinder talk." -- Emily Dickinson Aldon Lynn Nielsen Fletcher Jones Chair of Literature and Writing Loyola Marymount University 7900 Loyola Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90045-8215 (310) 338-3078 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:46:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Linda Russo Subject: [This] Friday: Treadwell & Greenberg reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable make this Friday a =B3Lost Friday=B2 20 October 20 October 20 October Elizabeth Treadwell & Arielle Greenberg 20 October 20 October 20 October Elizabeth Treadwell is the author of -Populace- (avec books, 1999); editor of -Outlet- and Double Lucy Books, and director of Small Press Traffic Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kathy Lou Schultz Subject: Re: Sweet Lorine Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I'm definitely in the LorEEn camp. I've never heard it pronounced any other way. As for NiedIcker or NiedEcker -- there I've heard some controversy. KLou ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Kathy Lou Schultz http://www.english.upenn.edu/~klou Lipstick Eleven/Duck Press http://www.duckpress.org ---------- >From: "Nielsen, Aldon" >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Sweet Lorine >Date: Tue, Oct 17, 2000, 8:43 PM > >Can one of you Niedecker experts please settle something for me? Is her >name pronounced "LorEEn" or "Lor EYEn"? For some reason, the on-line >encyclopedia people whose computers are teaching my students how to >pronounce everythin else have overlooked this crucial entry. > > > >" Subjects > hinder talk." > -- Emily Dickinson > >Aldon Lynn Nielsen >Fletcher Jones Chair of Literature and Writing >Loyola Marymount University >7900 Loyola Blvd. >Los Angeles, CA 90045-8215 > >(310) 338-3078 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:33:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baptiste Chirot Subject: [Y4M] Poetry for Palestine (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Poetry for Palestine Friday October 20, 2000 7:oopm Hunter College Thomas Hunter Room 202 Lexington Ave b/w 68th & 69th Sts Free - donations welcome In support of the self determination of Palestinian and all peoples: Saladin Ahmed Hayan Charara Vinie Burrows Reg E Gaines Suheir Hammad DH Melham Danny Hoch Bassey Ikpi Rashidah Ismaili Staci Lightburn Bahia Monem Lenina Nadal Ishle Park Victoria Sammartino Emmanual Xavier ...and others will read one poem each in a litany for survival in honor of the victims and the survivors of the most recent Israeli violence againt Palestinians. -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/4/_/30522/_/971820875/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> Stop the execution! New trial for Mumia! Youth & Students for Mumia http://www.mumia2000.org To subscribe or unsubscribe email: youth-4-mumia-owner@egroups.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:39:25 -0400 Reply-To: ggatza@daemen.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Organization: Vorple Sword Publishing Subject: Re: sonnets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jumper -- My personal God of poetry is Ted Berrigan and his work of sonnets. These pieces (80+) were written then cut apart line by line and repasted to provide a new meaning to the poem. God are they great!!! Check 'em out! Ever & affectionately Jumper Bloom wrote: > Hello. > > I am curious what people's favorite > sonnets are. > > --Jumper Bloom > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:22:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: Announcements Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable This week and next week at the Poetry Project: Wednesday, October 18th at 8 pm LISA JARNOT AND FRED MOTEN Lisa Jarnot is the author of the forthcoming Ring of Fire (Zoland Books, 2001) and several chapbooks. Fred Moten has published poetry in Grand Stree= t and Lift and has poems forthcoming in Callaloo and Five Fingers Review. He is the author of the chapbook Arkansas (Pressed Wafer Press, 2000). Friday, October 20th at 10:30 pm A NIGHT OF TABOOS: SELF-PLEASURING & SH*IT Readers Tony Gloeggler, Daddy (Laurel Barclay and guitarist Matt Katz-Bohen), Gloria, and David Mills will bring their deepest secrets to light. An open mike follows. Monday, October 23rd at 8 pm JEANNE LEIBY AND RHONDA J. NELSON: THE POETS AND WRITERS=B9 WRITERS EXCHANGE 2000 READING As part of the 2000 Writers Exchange sponsored by Poets & Writers, this year=B9s winners, Florida writers Jeanne Leiby and Rhonda J. Nelson, have bee= n selected to participate in this very special event at the Poetry Project. A reception will follow this reading. Wednesday, October 25th at 8 pm BILL KUSHNER AND FRANK LIMA Bill Kushner is the author of That April (forthcoming from United Artists Books) He Dreams of Waters (due this fall from Rattapallax Press), and othe= r volumes of poetry. Frank Lima, the author of Beatitudes (Hard Press, Octobe= r 2000), New and Selected Poems (Hard Press, 1997), has taught writing workshops at the Poetry Project and elsewhere. A reception will follow this reading. Unless otherwise noted, admission to all events is $7, $4 for students and seniors, and $3 for Poetry Project members. Schedule is subject to change. The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church at the corner of 2nd Avenue and 10th Street in Manhattan. The Poetry Project is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information or visit our Web site at http://www.poetryproject.com. *** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:16:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael amberwind Subject: Re: Curses! Foiled Again! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii curses! i really did hope SOMEONE would bite - but he's right - this was generated by the postmodern thesis generator - if they tweaked it up a notch it might actually fool a professor or two - then again, probably not - i have yet to see a decent example of computer generated writing - guess i'll have to work twice as hard come april first to fool you bunch of saavy cats - love for all... ****** The essay you have probably just seen is completely meaningless and was randomly generated by the Postmodernism Generator. To generate another essay, follow this link." What fun! --Clai Rice -----Original Message----- From: michael amberwind Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 2:03 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Post Neotextualism "Class is responsible for sexism," says Marx; however, according to Brophy, it is not so much class that is responsible for sexism, but rather the failure, and thus the meaninglessness, of class. But if capitalism holds, we have to choose between semanticist socialism and prematerial textual theory. If one examines neodialectic nihilism, one is faced with a choice: either accept capitalism or conclude that concensus is a product of communication. The subject is contextualised into a cultural desemioticism that includes truth as a totality. However, the characteristic theme of the works of Pynchon is a self-fulfilling paradox. In the works of Pynchon, a predominant concept is the distinction between closing and opening. Capitalism holds that culture is part of the failure of language. It could be said that d'Erlette suggests that we have to choose between subcapitalist nationalism and dialectic appropriation. The main theme of Parry's analysis of dialectic nationalism is the bridge between society and sexual identity. Foucault suggests the use of capitalism to challenge class divisions. However, Sontag uses the term 'posttextual dialectic theory' to denote not, in fact, theory, but subtheory. If capitalism holds, we have to choose between the neotextual paradigm of concensus and deconstructivist precapitalist theory. Thus, Sartre promotes the use of semanticist socialism to deconstruct and analyse society. Several narratives concerning capitalism exist. It could be said that Marx uses the term 'dialectic nationalism' to denote the role of the reader as observer. The subject is interpolated into a semanticist socialism that includes truth as a whole. Therefore, Lyotard suggests the use of dialectic nationalism to challenge hierarchy. An abundance of discourses concerning the difference between class and sexuality may be discovered. In a sense, Derrida promotes the use of capitalism to read class. A number of narratives concerning dialectic nationalism exist. It could be said that d'Erlette implies that we have to choo se between capitalism and the patriarchial paradigm of narrative. Any number of theories concerning the fatal flaw, and eventually the futility, of neocapitalist society may be revealed. However, the subject is contextualised into a dialectic nationalism that includes art as a paradox. Dialectic discourse and subcultural dialectic theory. "Sexual identity is used in the service of capitalism," says Foucault; however, according to Tilton, it is not so much sexual identity that is used in the service of capitalism, but rather the stasis, and subsequent paradigm, of sexual identity. The primary theme of the works of Eco is the common ground between class and sexual identity. It could be said that the futility, and eventually the fatal flaw, of subcultural dialectic theory prevalent in Eco's Foucault's Pendulum is also evident in The Aesthetics of Thomas Aquinas, although in a more mythopoetical sense. Marx's essay on Lacanist obscurity holds that the Constitution is capable of truth. Thus, Bataille uses the term 'dialectic nationalism' to denote a dialectic whole. Many dematerialisms concerning subcultural dialectic theory exist. However, the main theme of Cameron's model of capitalist discourse is the futility, and therefore the absurdity, of neotextual society. Of course, I could be wrong and invite List input on the matter. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:33:25 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Re: Sweet Lorine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I've always heard LorEEn. On the other hand, I've never heard any consensus around whether it was KNEE-decker or NIGH-decker. Ron _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:10:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: Colloquium In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII entropy--it depends what sense of it one has in bringing it up--entropy of the body toward the passive (?)----meaning saying dying--"unto death"? on the other hand, via negentropy, "order out of chaos" as Prigogine and Stengers have it in their book of that title-- a regeneration of the body-- yet how can one diminish that which is as yet so vast, active and as yet much unlearned? consider at any given moment all those sensations for which one simply has an awareness--via the body--and among even those which one does have--and in the awareness becoming more aware and so ever move sensations, "feelings" via organs all "coming in"--or being "touched"-- even among these which are but the barest of beginnings of awareness, how few of these as yet there are words for--(limitations of discourse--) (the medical, the neurological, the biochemical, the police record, the voice record, the photograph, etc--cat scans--you name it--sonar scans of fetus, fingerprints, DNA prints----sounds of the womb--static sounds of brain activity?--neurological, statistical, snapping of synapses --the whole work of Artaud devoted to this--) (not to mention at any given moment simply the body in existence operating at so many myriad levels--and among these the varying degrees of one's attentions and awarenesses--and considerations, questionings, thinkings, emotions with these--)("and i imagined for a moment that i thought that i could feel it in my bones . . . ") (the Uncanny--) in that sense the very body one lives in is as yet--elusive, extensive--productive of ever more energies as one becomes "attuned" to them-- the "out of body experience"--that is paradoxically experienced via the body-- there is no passivity in the body--as it is LIVING--so is ACTIVE--and being active is hungry--the desire for/with/of desire, of sensation--beocomes productive-- then for those impatient and obsessed with "speeding" up the old mechanism--the whole discourse of the prostheses, the machine extension of the body beginning with Marinetti's Futurism, the Muybridge motion studies applied to principles of Fordism, the disciplined body-machine of the assembly line--Busby Berkeley choreographies and Stanislavsky and Meyerhold experiments growing out of this-- and from there on to the body as war machine--in Marinetti, the works of Virilio and Deleuze and Guattari--throughout the 20th century that dream of the pure "total war" death squad--and its relation to the body-- see for example Klaus Thewelit's 2 volumes, MALE FANTASIES or in Mishima's book SUN AND STEEL the intense erotic aestheticization of the body's transformations via supersonic speeds during ascension in a fighter jet-- many other extensions of the eroticizing of the body via mystic and shamanistic practises, use of various drugs--various systems handed down for thousands of years in manuals of such training--(KAMA SUTRA etc--) in performance scores--inclusive of much sound poetry and visual poetry--the notation there for the body--to become totally involved in the performance-- which brings an opening out from confines of discourse-- (see Karl Young's essay "Notation and the Art of Reading" for example at Light and Dust http://www.thing.net/~grist/homekarl.htm)-- (whih also has the question of speed, in the sense of "speed reading") poet/artist speed may also move even faster--via as Smithson notes: that the glance of a great artist--might in itself be the work of art-- (that is, not constrained by art discourse and its attendent galleries, categories, ownerships, the actual "object" which is to be "possesed" --literally--and gven a "value", a "price" --)) also in Malevich's writings re Suprematism--that at some point intuition of the artist is faster than the speed of light ("intuition is intelligence speeding"--a quote Virilio notes--) a very good study was made in early 1970s (pre dating the work with negentropy) by Rudolf Arnheim: ENTROPY AND ART though the concept in itself is very ancient: The world as we see it is passing --St Paul The most beautiful world is a heap of rubble tossed down in confusion --Heraclitus via poetry and art, there is the awareness of the myriad possibilities, potentialities--of body--opening outwo/ards and inwo/ards-- whereas in discourse, is continually the effort at institutionalization in myriad confining forms "found" this rummaging in bookstore: (from "Guide to Found Arts" by Bern Porter) Persons who feel, comprehend, know, understand through their eyes find great excitement in the found arts. Persons who comprehend, know, understand through their minds find it a total dud of nothing and walk off without so much as giving half a try. Persons whose five senses are not dulled, bruised, warped, wounded by the terrible forces inflicted upon them from the outside can feel and know through their eyes, fingers, nose, ears and taste. etc though I would say that hopefully the direction is such that the mind/body as seperate entities--that the dichotomy be "done away with" and is more of a working together of "both/ and"-- in the end, though sight seems to be much privileged often--it is really all the senses that are engaged with the energy-- which is not entropic, but continually making that movement of "order out of chaos" and back into chaos and back out again and so on--that Prigogine and Stengers note-- when the awareness of energy is developed, then one has that sense with Smithson, that the movement of a pebble of an inch over millions of years, is indeed excitement enough-- (or Emily Dickinson noting that in crossing her room she has traveled to the faraway Islands--) the sensing body (and its making as art poetry etc--) is "energy made visible" for example as Pollock the painter had it-- in that sense, the entropy of an encroaching passivity or "steady state"--may be perhaps in the receiver--and not from the source-- ("energy is eternal delight"--Blake) Your very flesh shall be a great poem and have the richest fluency not only in its words but in the silent lines of its lips and face and between the lashes of the eyes. and also: "my voice goes after what my eyes can't reach" --both from Walt Whitman it may be that the problem with the body and entropy is --of course, it can be imposed--(and yet again be eluded--)-- ("prison writings", "prison art"--works made in instituitions--etc) is that it is the perception of the onlooker/discourser or of the very language itself, of the ("constructed") perception which one is given to work with, is in the entropic state, becoming passive, static, confining, etc--but this does not indicate that that which exists apart from these means at hand is in itself entropic-- in this very sense of uncertainty at the core of perception/discourse--is the very evidence of its being "open to question"-- opening inwo/ards and outwo/ards-- --dave baptiste chirot ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:21:20 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anselm Hollo Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 16 Oct 2000 to 18 Oct 2000 (#2000-172) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lo-REEN NEE-decker ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:04:58 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ART ELECTRONICS Organization: Art Electronics Subject: ROME / INTERMEDIA Comments: To: wr-eye-tings , British poets , subsubpoetics@listbot.com, poetryetc@mailbase.ac.uk, webartery@onelist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit *** apologies for cross posting *** We are happy to drive the attention of our noumerous friends who live far in the world on a multimedia festival, which takes place for the fifth time in Rome, in which we have the pleasure to participate (and co-operate) for the second time. Caterina Davinio - Karenina.it In Rome, an international manifestation dedicated to the intermedial areas 17 - 26 November, Teatro Colosseo This year the Italian National Centre of Drama, directed by Alfio Petrini, in the yearly "Vetrina" dedicated to the intermedia, which takes pace in Rome (Colosseo Theatre), presents, together with new pieces of research theatre, a rich program of international video, digital video, interactive installations, multimedia performances of artist coming from all over the wordl. -- A Roma, una manifestazione internazionale dedicata alle "aree intermediali" Teatro Colosseo (Tutte le sale) Dal 17 al 26 novembre Quest'anno il Centro Nazionale di Drammaturgia diretto da Alfio Petrini, nella "Vetrina" annuale dedicata alle aree intermediali che si svolge a Roma (Teatro Colosseo), giunta alla quinta edizione, presenta, accanto a nuove pieces di teatro di ricerca, un ricco programma di video internazionali, alcune installazioni interattive, performance multimediali di artisti provenienti da tutto il mondo. PROGRAMMA: EXPERIMENTAL THEATRE / PERFORMANCES / VIDEO / INTERACTIVE INSTALLATIONS / CD POETRY / STAGE / PHOTOGRAPHY / AND MORE... When: 17 to 26 November Where: Rome: Teatro Colosseo (Sala Grande) - Ridotto Colosseo (Sala A, B, C)., Via Capo d'Africa, 5 Roma * Teatro / Theatre * Fulvio Fiori, Alfio Petrini, Saverio La Ruina, Dario De Luca, Vasco Mirandola, Giorgio Rossi, Simone Sandroni, Miguel Pereira, Antonio Tagliarini, Anna De Manincor, Anna Rispoli, Leonardo Capuano e altri / others... * Multimedia Performance * Bartolomé Ferrando, Alain-Martin Richard, Roi Vaara, Agostino di Scipio (testi poetici di Mariano Baino, Mario Lunetta, Anna Maria Giancarli). * Video installazioni / Installazioni interattive / Video Installations / Interactive Installations * Andreas Pichler, Giovanna Fiorenza * International Video / Digital video * Stephen Cummins, "Mahalya Middlemist, Margie Medlin, Brigid Kitchin, Paul Hampton & Trevor Patrick, Jessica Fallace & Micelle Heaven, Cordelia Beresford, Quay Brothers, Margaret Williams, David Hinton, Ross McGibbon, Jane Thorburn, Brett Turnbull, Bob Bentley, Mike Stubbs, Dick Hauser, Wolke Kluppell, Paula van der Oest, Annick Vroom, Marijke Jongbloed Andreas Pinchler, Caterina Davinio * Total Theatre Stage * Alfio Petrini * Fotografia / Photography * Manilio Prignano * Editoria telematica / Editorial project for web * Alfio Petrini, Andrea Balzala (in collaborazione con "Prove Aperte". Giovanni Antonucci, Fabio Bruschi, Paolo Ruffini) Patrocinio: Senato della Repubblica, Camera dei Deputati, Ministero dei Beni e delle Attività Culturali Dipartimento dello Spettacolo, Assessorato Politiche per la Promozione della Cultura, dello Spettacolo, del Turismo e dello Sport della Regione Lazio, Assessorato allo Sport, Turismo e Spettacolo della Provincia di Roma, Assessorato alla Cultura e alle Politiche Giovanili della Provincia di Roma, Coordinamento dei Parlamentari per la Innovazione Tecnologica, Associazione Nazionale dei Critici di Teatro, Sindacato Nazionale Scrittori, Sindacato Nazionale Autori di teatro. Consultate il programma completo su karenina.it / See the complete information about the dates in Karenina.it site: http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Lights/7323/teatrototale2.html ___________________________________________________________________ Karenina.it A communic/action project by Caterina Davinio http://digilander.iol.it/karenina/ Index: http://geocities.com/Paris/Lights/7323/kareninarivista.html Karenna.it Project: who are we and how can you co-operate with us http://geocities.com/Paris/Lights/7323/manifesto.htm Davinio Art Electronics - Archives / Videotheque / Rome / Milan Art Electronics and Other Writings http://space.tin.it/arte/cprezi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:53:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Cope Subject: contact info? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Does anyone have contact info. for Julie Patton? Please backchannell... scope@ucsd.edu thanks, Stephen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:13:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dickison Subject: Ed ROBERSON & Nathaniel MACKEY, Thurs Oct 19, 7:30 pm, Unitarian Center Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable POETRY CENTER 2000 The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives presents An evening with poets ED ROBERSON & NATHANIEL MACKEY Thursday, October 19, 7:30 pm, $5 donation @ the Unitarian Center 1187 Franklin (at Geary) ED ROBERSON's wonderful new book, _Atmosphere Conditions_ (Sun & Moon, 2000), was selected by Nathaniel Mackey for publication in the prestigious National Poetry Series. "Atmosphere, omen, memory, lost amenity, homelessness of more than one sort, instantaneity, cityscape, housing of more than one sort, dream, social entropy, music, dance, death-these are among the matters which move through the poems with revenant, mercurial dispatch. . . . work of unremitting mindfulness and reach." His _Voices Cast Out to Talk Us In_ was winner of the 1995 Iowa Poetry Prize, and _Just In/Word of Navigational Challenges: New and Selected Poems_ was published by Talisman Books. Mr. Roberson lives in New Brunswick, New Jersey. NATHANIEL MACKEY's latest book of poetry is _Whatsaid Serif_ (City Lights), an extension of the long poetic work he calls "Song of the Andoumboulou." His third novel, _Atet A.D._ (forthcoming from City Lights), likewise continues Mr. Mackey's engagement in an on-going, epic-length work, in this instance the epistolary fiction "From a Broken Bottle, Traces of Perfume Still Emanate." _Discrepant Engagement_, a critical work exploring conjunctions between radical Black poetics of recent decades and the New American Poetry, is new in paperback from the University of Alabama. Mr. Mackey edits _Hambone_ magazine, and lives in Santa Cruz, where he teaches literature at UCSC. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ALSO THIS WEEK: An evening with ROBERT CREELEY =46riday, October 20, 7:30 pm, free @ The Ira and Leonore S. Gershwin Theater 2350 Turk Boulevard (at Masonic) presented in collaboration with Readings at Lone Mountain, the M.F.A. Writing Program at the University of San Francisco =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D LOCATIONS THE UNITARIAN CENTER is located at 1187 Franklin St. at the corner of Geary on-street parking opens up at 7:00 pm from downtown SF, take the Geary bus to Franklin THE IRA & LENORE S. GERSHWIN THEATER is located at 2350 Turk Boulevard (west of Masonic) off-street parking is available for $5 ask at guard shack, entrance to Lone Mountain campus on Turk for MUNI bus schedule call 415-673-6864 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D SFSU students and Poetry Center members get in free. The Poetry Center's programs are supported by funding from Grants for the Arts-Hotel Tax Fund of the City of San Francisco, the California Arts Council, the National Endowment for the Arts, Poets & Writers, Inc., and The Fund for Poetry, as well as by the College of Humanities at San =46rancisco State University, and by donations from our members. Join us! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ vox 415-338-3401 ~ fax 415-338-0966 http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:23:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Brodeur Subject: Both Magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Soon to be moved out of its room in Jamaica Plain into a bigger room in Jamaica Plain but available whenever for those interested in what it has to offer, we give you Both Magazine (http://www.bothmagazine.com), an indigest of scattered literature, that despite its indigestion, is always hungry. V 1.0 includes the following business: *A story from Todd Dills, editor of Chicago based one sheet publication the2ndhand (http://www.the2ndhand.com). *Four stories from Walt Foreman (see also Ploughshares and the Ontario Review) *Three poems from Alexander Phillips, whose translations of Pierre Martory can be seen in this month's issue of Poetry. *A half hour in the life of Matt Velick, interface designer by force and editor of http://www.greasefire.com by choice. *Four poems by Nashville wonder, Chris Jackson. *And of course, our Letters section which, volume permitting, will grow fat every few days with whatever you'd like to say about whatever you would say what you said about. Submissions are welcome via e-mail (for now, see the About section) as text or preferably as MS Word documents. Both will appear in printed form twice per year, for paper is good, and we shouldn't waste yours. Do stop by, and thank you for your time. Editor Ha-Ha Michael Andor Brodeur http://www.bothmagazine.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:31:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik Notes: Two New Little Mags of Note Two new little magazines worthy of note, one hardcopy (!) the other an ezine. Both actually read incoming mss., both are pretty eclectic, and both of high quality. Well worth a look, a subscription, a submission. Fence is hardcopy, increasingly scarce, from SUNY at Buffalo (but not, apparently, devoted exclusively to the works of Charles Bernstein and Bruce McAndrews and their wide circle of tenured and tenure track friends). They can be reached at http://www.bookmouth.com for a brief but incisive interview. Or for a longer version of the story, go to http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/jacket12/wolffe-fence.html. The current issue includes: poems and short fiction and criticism and art by (in exhaustive alphabetical order by first name): Andy Mozina, Alice Rose George, Allen Grossman, Amy Woolard, Anne Carson, Belinda Kremer, Ben Doyle, Ben Marcus, Brenda Coultas, Brian Young, Chris Offutt, Christine Deavel, Claire Malroux, Corey Mead. Daniel Kane, David Kellogg, Eben Wood, Eleni Sikelianos, Ellen Sharp, Fanny Howe, Hilary Plattner, Iris Jamahl Johnson, Jaime Saenz, James Galvin, Jean Valentine, Jonathan VanBallenberghe, Karen Volkman, Katy Lederer, Kim Anno, Lacy L. Schutz, Melanie Bogue, Miranda Field, Monica Youn, Pamela Zoline, Paula Fox, Rachel Zucker, Rae Armantrout, Ray DiPalma, Rick Moody, Robyn Schiff, Ross Martin, and Sophie Cabot Black and special Features: A Call for Response: Symposium on Subjectivity and Style (Mark Doty, Claudia Rankine, Marie Howe, Nick Flynn, Tony Hoagland, Leslie Scalapino, Standard Schaefer, Annie Finch, Eileen Myles, Juliana Spahr, and more) Also, if you're in the NYC area, celebrate the new issue at a launch reading Wednesday, October 25th, 8 pm Teachers & Writers Collaborative 5 Union Square West Featuring Forrest Gander, D.A. Powell, and Elizabeth Robinson $8 or $12 for a year's subscription Wine Afterward. On the ezine side, do check out www.canwehaveourballback.com, a wonderfully lively little mag out of SUNY. Contributors to the current (#2.0) issue include Richard Hell, Charles Bukowski, Sal Salasin, Ed Foster, Charles Bernstein (!), Mitch Highfill and many others. A fun little magazine worthy of support. from RealPoetik ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 21:12:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tim Shaner Subject: Rust Talks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Announcing RUST TALKS 3: "Difficult Beginnings" RICHARD DEMING and ROBERTO TEJADA Thursday October 26, 2000 8 pm Rust Belt Books 202 Allen Street Buffalo, NY Rust Talks is a dialogue with contemporary writers. The Rust Talks newsletter (locally available in hard copy at Rust Belt Books; to be published later on our website) features a discussion between two literary artists, either responding to each other's work or concerning a topic in contemporary poetics. "Rust Talks," the event, will present a reading or performance by the authors, followed by a discussion which extends the conversation to the audience. Richard and Roberto's exchange focuses on poetry & politics and includes discussions of Zukofsky, Rorty, Benjamin, Levi Strauss, and others. Check out the Rust Talks website at: http://epc.buffalo.edu/ezines/rust ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:38:02 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Tranter Subject: Young People Against Poetry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Who said young people these days don't care about poetry? From "The Australian" newspaper, Friday 20 October 2000: "A group calling itself Young People Against Poetry protested outside the Brisbane Writers Festival yesterday, declaring poetry frivolous and culturally divisive." Brisbane is a city in the northern Australian state of Queensland. - John Tranter, Jacket magazine ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:43:57 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Curses! Foiled Again! The Machine's Comment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael. But how do you know, after all, I am a postmodern thesis. That is, if I'm not, then I'm a Post Modern Thesis Generator.Or I'm the idea of one. The metonomy or the metalingwylealeology of one. Like Andy Warhol and maybe Christopher Dewdney, and some of Charles Bernstein's fellow machines (I mean fellows) I've always dreamed of being a machine. Not for me the romance of being a rugged 6 foot 6 All Black (Rugby Player or sacred member of New Zealand's most sacred Religion), or a Brad Pitt with bevvys of luscious...no! Or even a Byron. No. All traces of squeamish and pathetic lyricism have been expelled from my most mechanistic and possibly satanic soul. I am, in fact, a Machine. In fact I suspect that the entire Language movement was initiated by a beautifully demented Machine. Lets get back to the the glorification of The Machine. Futurists and Mechanicists of the world Unite! Four legs weak, two legs bad, no legs good. Yours, The Red Machine. ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael amberwind" To: Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 10:16 AM Subject: Re: Curses! Foiled Again! > curses! i really did hope SOMEONE would bite - > but he's right - this was generated by the > postmodern thesis generator - if they tweaked it > up a notch it might actually fool a professor or > two - then again, probably not - i have yet to > see a decent example of computer generated > writing - guess i'll have to work twice as hard > come april first to fool you bunch of saavy cats > - love for all... > > ****** > > The essay you have probably just seen is > completely meaningless and was > randomly generated by the Postmodernism > Generator. To generate another > essay, follow this link." > > What fun! > > --Clai Rice > > -----Original Message----- > From: michael amberwind > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 2:03 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Post Neotextualism > > > "Class is responsible for sexism," says Marx; > however, according to Brophy, it is not so much > class that is responsible for sexism, but rather > the failure, and thus the meaninglessness, of > class. But if capitalism holds, we have to choose > between semanticist socialism and prematerial > textual theory. If one examines neodialectic > nihilism, one is faced with a choice: either > accept capitalism or conclude that concensus is a > product of communication. The subject is > contextualised into a cultural desemioticism that > includes truth as a totality. However, the > characteristic theme of the works of Pynchon is a > self-fulfilling paradox. In the works of Pynchon, > a predominant concept is the distinction between > closing and opening. Capitalism holds that > culture is part of the failure of language. It > could be > said that d'Erlette suggests that we have to > choose between subcapitalist nationalism and > dialectic appropriation. The main theme of > Parry's analysis of dialectic nationalism is the > bridge between society and sexual identity. > Foucault suggests the use of capitalism to > challenge class divisions. However, Sontag uses > the term 'posttextual dialectic theory' to denote > not, in fact, theory, but subtheory. If > capitalism holds, we have to choose between the > neotextual paradigm of concensus and > deconstructivist precapitalist theory. Thus, > Sartre promotes the use of semanticist socialism > to deconstruct and analyse society. Several > narratives concerning capitalism exist. It could > be said that Marx uses the term 'dialectic > nationalism' to denote the role of the reader as > observer. The subject is > interpolated into a semanticist socialism that > includes truth as a whole. Therefore, Lyotard > suggests the use of dialectic nationalism to > challenge hierarchy. An abundance of discourses > concerning the difference between class and > sexuality may be discovered. In a sense, Derrida > promotes the use of capitalism to read class. > A number of narratives concerning dialectic > nationalism exist. It could be said that > d'Erlette implies that we have to choo se between > capitalism and the patriarchial paradigm of > narrative. Any number of theories concerning the > fatal flaw, and eventually the futility, of > neocapitalist society may be revealed. However, > the subject is contextualised into a > dialectic nationalism that includes art as a > paradox. Dialectic discourse and subcultural > dialectic theory. "Sexual identity is used in the > service of capitalism," says Foucault; however, > according to Tilton, it is not so much sexual > identity that is used in the service of > capitalism, but rather the stasis, and subsequent > paradigm, of sexual identity. The primary theme > of the works of Eco is the common ground between > class and sexual identity. It could be said that > the futility, and eventually the fatal flaw, of > subcultural dialectic theory prevalent in Eco's > Foucault's Pendulum is also evident in The > Aesthetics of Thomas Aquinas, although in a more > mythopoetical sense. Marx's essay on Lacanist > obscurity holds that the Constitution is capable > of truth. Thus, Bataille uses the term 'dialectic > nationalism' to denote a dialectic whole. Many > dematerialisms concerning subcultural dialectic > theory exist. However, the main theme of > Cameron's model of capitalist discourse is the > futility, and therefore the absurdity, of > neotextual society. > > Of course, I could be wrong and invite List input > on the matter. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 > Free! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. > http://im.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 02:17:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: |v| MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII |v| sacrifice show |v| make known |v| awe |v| vernal sacrifice |v| offer a sacrifice to ancestors |v| worship ancestors |v| make offerings to ancestors |v| rites to ancestors |v| calamities caused by terrestrial disturbances |v| god in barbarous and fiery worship |v| earth spirits |v| supplication |v| place of sacrifice |v| stone family temple shrine |v| defend gods |v| divine care |v| protection of heaven |v| remove evils |v| obtain blessings |v| drive off spirits |v| ward off spirits |v| bury together |v| ancestor |v| ancestral temple |v| preach the doctrines |v| dinner of farewell |v| omen of prosperity |v| auspicious omen |v| omen of good luck |v| separate ancestral shrine |v| worship |v| make offerings to ancestors |v| remote and near |v| within a single hall |v| sacrifice |v| worship and make offerings |v| sacrifice |v| offering |v| ominous influence |v| pernicious influence |v| sacrifice meat |v| sacrifice flesh |v| for laying aside the mourning |v| for averting the evil |v| rites, a rite, the rites |v| |v| ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:00:02 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: Re: RealPoetik Notes: Two New Little Mags of Note In-Reply-To: <200010192231.PAA18226@scn.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Arial------------------------FF00,0000,0000RealPoetik Notes that: Fence is hardcopy, increasingly scarce, from SUNY at Buffalo (but not, apparently, devoted exclusively to the works of Charles Bernstein and Bruce McAndrews and their wide circle of tenured and tenure track friends). -----------------------FF00,0000,0000And li'l ol' me replies: _Fence_ is indeed a very good magazine, but I don't think the crack against "tenured" etc. was appropriate or in very good taste . In fact, I don't understand the motivation behind it at all (and why is Bruce Andrews suddenly Irish?). When I see comments of this nature--flippant, nestled in a different context--I've just gotta scratch me 'ead. (As me dear ol' grampy'ld say.) --JGallaher PS. Neither tenured nor tenure track PPS. But ever hopeful0100,0100,0100Garamond J Gallaher Metaphors Be With You . . . ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:04:22 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: New Orleans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear List Members: I will be in New Orleans, La. from January 13th to the 18th, 2001, and would appreciate an opportunity to read, as well as attend readings, events, activities, etc. Some recent examples of my work can be found online in Jacket, PotePoetzine and Flim, etc... I thank you in advance. Please backchannel. Best, Gerald Schwartz schwartzgk@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:52:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: prisons (forwarded to me) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE American Gulag=20 by Jerome G. Miller=20 The figures are startling. In the last year of the Carter administration=20 (1979), our nation=92s federal prisons held about 20,000 inmates. By contra= st,=20 as the Clinton administration draws to a close we will have 135,000 inmates= =20 in federal prisons; projecting an annual growth of 10 percent the number wi= ll=20 reach a quarter million in five years. In 1979, there were 268,000 inmates = in=20 the prisons of all 50 states. Today, they hold almost 1.3 million. In 1979,= =20 there were 150,000 in local jails and lockups. Today, local jail facilities= =20 hold nearly 700,000. This year, we will exceed 2 million inmates in our=20 prisons and jails. As we enter the millennium, the nation has about 6.5=20 million of its citizens under some form of correctional supervision.=20 And a new twist has been added: the =93supermax=94 prison composed exclusiv= ely of=20 cells used for solitary confinement. A place of studied sensual deprivation= =20 and psychological torture, it was designed by correctional managers to=20 control their populations as privileges in routine prisons were diminished= =20 and sentences were lengthened. A product less of management necessity than = of=20 a twisted psyche, these temples to sado-masochism now dot the American=20 landscape, presently containing 20,000 mostly minority inmates.=20 Spurred on by a =93drug war=94 that focuses inordinately upon the poor and= =20 minorities, we have seen astonishing patterns of incarceration among young= =20 black men vis =E0 vis similarly accused white men. Although the rates of dr= ug=20 consumption are roughly equal among white and black populations, blacks are= =20 imprisoned for drug offenses at 14 times the rate of whites.=20 The patterns in some states are truly astonishing. Between 1986 and 1996 fo= r=20 example, the rate of incarceration for drug offenses among African American= s=20 increased by 10,102 percent in Louisiana; in Georgia, by 5,499 percent; in= =20 Arkansas 5,033 percent; in Iowa 4,284 percent; and in Tennessee 1,473 perce= nt. There are currently more than 50 million criminal records on file in the US= ,=20 with at least 4 to 5 million =93new=94 adults acquiring such a record annua= lly.=20 This record sticks with a person, whether or not charges are dropped or the= re=20 is a subsequent conviction. A notorious example occurred in the recent poli= ce=20 killing of Patrick Dorismond, an unarmed young Haitian immigrant. In an=20 attempt to rationalize the police behavior, Mayor Rudolph Giuliani=20 characterized the deceased as =93no altar boy=94 and released a =93criminal= record=94=20 that included two past convictions for =93disorderly conduct=94 and a juven= ile=20 charge that had been dismissed over two decades earlier when Dorismond was = 13=20 years old. For certain racial and ethnic groups, being arrested and locked up is a=20 given. Beginning in adolescence, we have established a warped =93rite of=20 passage=94 for young African Americans and Hispanics; only by a fluke will = they=20 avoid acquiring a =93criminal record=94 =97 the result of an arrest.=20 In 1990, the nonprofit Washington, DC=96based Sentencing Project found that= on=20 an average day, one in every four African-American men ages 20=9629 was eit= her=20 in prison, in jail, or on probation/parole. Ten years later, the ratio had= =20 shrunk to one in three.=20 Research conducted by the National Center on Institutions and Alternatives= =20 revealed that more than half of young black males living in Washington, DC,= =20 and Baltimore are caught up in the criminal justice system on an average da= y=20 =97 either in prison, jail, on probation or parole, out on bond, or being= =20 sought on a warrant. Three of every four (76 percent) African-American 18-year-olds living in=20 urban areas can now anticipate being arrested and jailed before age 36. In= =20 the process, each young man will acquire a =93criminal record.=94 By the la= te=20 1990s, federal statisticians were predicting that nearly one of every three= =20 adult black men in the nation could anticipate being sentenced to a federal= =20 or state prison at some time during his life.=20 The most telling numbers of all are contained in a US Justice Department=20 historical breakdown of admissions to state and federal prisons over the pa= st=20 century. Although African Americans were always over-represented (often for= =20 reasons unrelated to crime rates), the racial gap grew exponentially as we= =20 approached the millennium. In 1926, whites made up 79 percent of the inmate= s=20 entering our state and federal prisons. Blacks made up 21 percent. By 1999= =20 however, African Americans were making up between 55 percent and 60 percent= =20 of all new admissions to state and federal prisons. If Latino inmates are= =20 included, slightly over three out of four Americans sentenced to federal or= =20 state prisons were minorities. This fact has brought a sea change in public attitudes regarding crime and= =20 criminals and ushered in the era of the =93rhetorical wink,=94 characterize= d by=20 Lani Guinier, whereby a white politician can talk about getting tough on=20 =93criminals=94 and, with a wink, convey to the audience =93black criminals= =2E=94 Race=20 need never be mentioned.=20 The uncomfortable truth is that the national attitude on crime is more firm= ly=20 grounded in race than in putative crime rates. The surge in crime rates=20 occurred between 1965 and 1973. The general trend since that time, with=20 =93blips=94 in 1989 and 1991, has been for crime to either remain stable or= to=20 decline.=20 While most people assume jail overcrowding results from rising crime rates,= =20 increased violence, or general population growth, that is seldom the case.= =20 Here, in order of importance, are the major contributors to jail overcrowdi= ng: 1. The number of police officers 2. The number of judges 3. The number of courtrooms 4. The size of the district attorney=92s staff 5. Policies of the state=92s attorney=92s office con- cerning which crimes deserve the most attention 6. The size of the staff of the entire court system 7. The number of beds available in the local jail 8. The willingness of victims to report crimes 9. Police department policies concerning arrest 10. The arrest rate within the police department 11. The actual amount of crime committed It is common for a =93trickle-up effect=94 to set in. Although there may be= =20 little or no change in the ways serious crimes are handled, those who engag= e=20 in minor infractions of the law end up receiving harsh penalties as well,= =20 thereby =93casting the net=94 of social control ever wider. Such matters sh= ould=20 give the nation pause as we move aggressively to build more prisons and=20 camps, but there is little to suggest any respite.=20 The distinguished British criminologist Andrew Rutherford summarized the=20 trend well: =93All natural tendencies toward stability appear to have=20 evaporated. Not only has there been a quantum leap of unprecedented=20 proportions in prison populations, but there appear also to be no indicatio= ns=20 of any counter forces which might impose limits.=94=20 Carnegie-Mellon criminologist Alfred Blumstein put it another way: =93Once= =20 criminal policy in the United States fell into the political arena, little= =20 could be done to recapture concern for limiting prison populations. ... Our= =20 political system learned an overly simplistic trick: when it responds to su= ch=20 pressures by sternly demanding increased punishments, that approach has bee= n=20 found to be strikingly effective, not in solving the problem, but in=20 alleviating the political pressure to =91do something=92.=94 To many, the =93tough on crime=94 attitude seems a good thing =97 a return = to basic=20 values, a focus on the rights of victims, an adieu to the =93bleeding heart= =94=20 policies of the past. Overall, the prevailing public mood on crime is vicio= us. I recently watched a video of a =93focus group=94 on crime conducted by a= =20 Republican pollster and consultant. In discussing a recent shooting of a=20 teacher by a 13-year-old African-American middle-school honor student, the= =20 consultant asked the group what they would do in such a case. Their respons= e=20 seemed even to embarrass him as he tried to smile away the comments of this= =20 scientifically chosen =93average=94 group of local citizens. =93Fry him!=94= came the=20 insistent shouts from the group as the 13-year-old=92s situation was being= =20 presented. Only one older African-American man remained silent.=20 I wanted to avert my eyes from the TV. It brought to mind another mood=20 observed by the Danish sociologist Svend Ranulf when he looked across the= =20 border into the Germany of the early 1930s to see how that country proposed= =20 dealing with criminals and crime. =93Everywhere=94 he saw a =93disintereste= d=20 disposition to punish.=94 He called it =93disinterested=94 because =93no di= rect=20 personal advantage seemed to be achieved by calling for the harsh punishmen= t=20 of another person who had injured a third party.=94 Noting that this puniti= ve=20 inclination was not equally strong in all human=20 societies and was entirely lacking in some, Ranulf concluded that it did no= t=20 arise out of concern for deterrence. Rather, it was a kind of =93disguised= =20 envy,=94 less a response to an increased crime rate than tied to the econom= ic=20 insecurities of the middle class. Indeed, the anti-crime program undertaken in accordance with the principles= =20 of National Socialism and proposed by the Prussian minister of justice in= =20 1933 seems oddly resonant today. Aggravated penalties were added to crimina= l=20 acts already subject to punishment; mitigation was to be allowed in only th= e=20 rarest and most exceptional cases; attempts at crime were to be dealt with = as=20 severely as accomplished crimes; drunkenness was to be considered an=20 aggravating, rather than extenuating, circumstance; there was to be more=20 liberal recourse to capital punishment; and prisons were to be made harsher= ,=20 with disciplinary measures to be applied at the discretion of prison warden= s.=20 Criticizing the alleged permissiveness of the Weimar Republic toward=20 criminals, the minister ended his white paper with a familiar slogan. =93It= =20 seemed,=94 he wrote, =93that the welfare of the criminal, and not the welfa= re of=20 the people, was the main purpose of the law.=94 Indeed, prisons and jails are an =93early warning system=94 of sorts for a= =20 society. They constitute the canary in the coal mine, providing an omen of= =20 mortal danger that often lies beyond our capacity to perceive. The experience of the past two decades suggests that we are ignoring this= =20 warning. We are in a curious position in which a surfeit of prisons filled= =20 with a million minority young men is seen not as an embarrassment, but as= =20 indispensable to the smooth running of our democracy and integral to its=20 economy. In effect, the attitude that suffused Southern jails and prisons= =20 during post=96Civil War reconstruction has been replicated nationally. For more than 20 years, our politicians have played the dangerous game of= =20 one-upping each other over who can demand the harshest punishments. In this= =20 pursuit, the definition of what is criminal, the relaxing of limits on the= =20 police to enforce laws, and the mandatory use of prison over=20 non-institutional means of control or correction have been distilled to=20 carefully crafted marketing slogans like =93three strikes and you=92re out.= =94=20 Offenders emerge from prison afraid to trust, fearful of the unknown, and= =20 with a vision of the world shaped by the meaning that behaviors had in the= =20 prison context. For a recently released prisoner, experiences like being=20 jostled on the subway, having someone reach across him in the bathroom to= =20 take a paper towel, or making eye contact can be taken as a precursor to a= =20 physical attack. In relationships with loved ones, this warped kind of=20 socialization means that problems will not easily be talked through. In a= =20 sense, the system we have designed to deal with offenders is among the most= =20 iatrogenic in history, nurturing those very qualities it claims to deter. During the question period following a lecture to a college audience, the= =20 social critic and linguist Noam Chomsky was recently asked why he was so=20 rarely seen on TV or on the =93op-ed=94 pages of our major news-papers and = why he=20 wasn=92t among those asked to testify on policy matters before Congress. Th= ere=20 seemed to be no dearth of commentary from the mavens of the Right, yet he w= as=20 mostly absent from these forums. Chomsky responded by describing a conversation he had with ABC/CNN=20 commentator Jeff Greenfield. Greenfield told him that he was unlikely to be= =20 booked on a national program like =93Nightline,=94 for example, because he = was=20 =93from Neptune.=94 Chomsky=92s views were too far =93outside the box=94 to= merit=20 discussion on a popular TV program. It had nothing to do with whether or no= t=20 his ideas might be valid. It was because he couldn=92t be afforded the time= =20 needed to lay out the context within which his views might be understood. F= or=20 him to express his views absent their context put him in the company of tho= se=20 who are from Neptune =97 out of touch, if not a bit loony. Chomsky=92s predicament has a personal resonance. The =93context=94 of my= =20 professional life over the past 35=A0years has been shaped by attempts to= =20 create alternative programs for the inmates of detention centers, jails, an= d=20 prisons. At the beginning, there was some general acceptance of the ideas I= =20 tried haltingly to express through my work. However, hope for =93consensual= =20 validation=94 of such efforts from peers and policy makers in the criminal= =20 justice community has pretty much faded with the years, as a sense of=20 alienation pulls me ever closer to Neptune. I vividly remember the case of Doug, a stocky 16-year-old addicted to heroi= n.=20 Late one evening, returning home from a meeting near the state reform schoo= l=20 over which I=92d recently assumed control, I decided to take a quick side t= rip=20 to the so-called disciplinary cottage. I asked the =93master=94 on duty whe= ther=20 anyone was upstairs in the =93tombs,=94 (the strip cells that I=92d ordered= closed=20 a few weeks earlier). No. I guess he thought I wouldn=92t bother to go upst= airs=20 and look. There, in a far corner of one of the dim cells, was Doug, lying= =20 stripped on the bare cement floor. I stood in the doorway trying to talk=20 though the mesh security screen that separated us. =93How long have you bee= n=20 here?=94 The muffled reply: =93A few days.=94 =93Why are you here?=94 His v= oice grew=20 more agitated: =93I tried to make it over the fence out back.=94 I told him= I=20 wanted him to come out and go back downstairs. =93We aren=92t using the tom= bs=20 anymore.=94 Doug let go a torrent of obscenities =97 =93You na=EFve asshole= ! You dumb=20 motherfucker! Don=92t you know kids like me need to be in here?=94=20 Doug had learned his lessons well. He had become the well-socialized produc= t=20 of our reform school =97 a =93disciplinary cottage success=94 who believed = what it=20 taught. The way to handle unacceptable impulses is to be grabbed, beaten,= =20 handcuffed, dragged screaming up cement steps, stripped, and thrown into a= =20 =93tomb.=94=20 It=92s not that we don=92t know that our present medieval tapestry of crime= and=20 punishment will at some point unravel. It isn=92t that there aren=92t alter= native=20 ways presently available for dealing with those who threaten us or break ou= r=20 laws. However, at times they seem largely futile, if not actually=20 counter-productive. In the present poisoned atmosphere, even the most well-= =20 intentioned alternatives run the danger of being pummeled to serve the very= =20 same warped conception of humanity they would challenge.=20 Somewhere in my youth I learned that the only unforgivable sin is the sin o= f=20 despair. For that reason if no other, I choose to continue what has become = a=20 somewhat melancholy battle. It is a great comfort to know that so many othe= rs=20 continue to exercise their hope for a better way with equanimity and crazy= =20 joy.=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerome G. Miller is the president and co-founder of the National Center on= =20 Institutions and Alternatives, which develops innovative criminal justice= =20 programs and services (see page 46). Miller has a doctorate in psychiatric= =20 social work and is recognized as one of the nation=92s leading authorities = on=20 corrections and clinical work with violent juvenile and adult sex offenders= =2E=20 Miller is best known for closing the state reform schools in Massachusetts= =20 and replacing them with community-based programs while serving as=20 commissioner of the state Department of Youth Services. He has since headed= =20 criminal justice programs in four other states. His books include: Over the= =20 Wall (re-released by Ohio State University Press in 1998) and Search &=20 Destroy: African Americans in the Criminal Justice System (Cambridge=20 University Press, 1997).=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:05:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: Subway Series Poetry Reading/Brooklyn, NY Comments: To: subsubpoetics@listbot.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brooklyn Voices=92 presents a SUBWAY SERIES BASEBALL POETRY READING Thursday, October 26, 8 p.m. Tillie=92s 248 DeKalb Avenue (at Vanderbilt Avenue) Fort Greene, Brooklyn Featuring performances by Elinor Nauen Spike Vrusho & David Kirschenbaum=20 Kirschenbaum--ME--will be joined by James Wilk of the band Imaginary Number= s on electric guitar, and read pieces with Ethan Fugate and a brand new Mets-Yankees villanelle written and performed with Edmund Berrigan. =20 For further information (718) 783-6140 or (212) 206-8899. $3 donation Game 5 updates will be provided frequently. Reading will end by sixth innin= g or so, and then we=92ll head to bar next door to watch the Mets win, I mean see the rest of the game. ELINOR NAUEN=92s books of poetry include AMERICAN GUYS (Hanging Loose, 1997= ). She edited DIAMONDS ARE A GIRL=92S BEST FRIEND: WOMEN WRITERS ON BASEBALL (Faber & Faber, 1994). Her baseball poetry and prose have appeared in many anthologies and magazines. She has thrown out the first pitch (a strike) at a St. Paul (MN) Saints game.=20 SPIKE VRUSHO is an underground sports columnist and television writer specializing in baseball fanaticism. He has written a variety of shows for ESPN, ESPN2, and ESPN Classic, as well as the weekly cable series Baseball Max. He is the founder of the baseball and music zine MURTAUGH. He is a diehard third-generation supporter of the Pittsburgh Pirates professional baseball club.=20 DAVID KIRSCHENBAUM was born and raised in Flatbush. He is the editor of BOO= G LITERATURE, a New York City-based small press now in its 10th year. THE PORTABLE BOOG READER, an instant anthology of New York City poetry, will be out next month. He used to have red hair like former New York Met outfielde= r Rusty Staub (but no one ever called him Le Grand Orange). TRAINS: D, M, N, Q, or R to DeKalb station, and walk about 10 minutes down DeKalb (you=92ll be walking against the flow of traffic). 2, 3, 4, or 5 to Nevins station. You=92ll exit onto Flatbush at Fulton. Cross Fulton and wal= k one block up Flatbush to DeKalb. Turn right and it=92s about a 10 minute wa= lk. C to Lafayette station. Walk one block north to DeKalb (at Fort Greene Park), then right about 5 or 6 blocks. G to Washington-Clinton. You=92ll ex= it on the north side of Lafayette St. Walk one block west to Vanderbilt, turn right. It=92s one block north. _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:20:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Balestrieri, Peter" Subject: Re: Sweet Lorine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" In Wisconsin, I've never heard her called anything other than LorEEn NIGHdecker. That doesn't mean it's correct but it means something. Pete ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:39:26 MDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: Sweet Lorine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >As for NiedIcker or NiedEcker -- there I've heard some controversy. >KLou >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Well, I don't know. Zukofsky, who was certainly close enough to her to know how to pronounce her name (& who had an over-developed fondness for puns), once wrote: "Where She a breath Comes out of drudgery Notes a worked out knee deck her daisies"* There you have it: "knee deck her." Also, I believe (but am not sure) that the daisy is a reference to her mother. The drudgery is certainly a reference to her working class circumstances. *This is from a poem in his sequence _I's (pronounced *eyes*)_, Complete Short Poems, p. 206. --Mark DuCharme _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 20:40:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Cunningham Subject: SPD special offer - 15% off online orders Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Small Press Distribution is pleased to announce the addition of three new categories to our Web site (http://www.spdbooks.org). The new categories are: ART MUSIC FILM AND VIDEO The categories are located on the left hand navigation bar for quick access to titles by subject interest. Look for additional categories coming soon. ***IN ADDITION, for a limited time we are offering a 15% DISCOUNT on all books purchased through www.spdbook.org*** This offer is good until November 10, 2000. To receive the 15% discount: 1) Visit www.spdbooks.org 2) Shop for books as usual 3) During checkout, type or paste the following code into the "COMMENTS" field: POETICS15 And please consider becoming an SPD member! The standard member discount of 10% will be ADDED to this special 15% discount, so the total member discount comes to 25% for any member's online purchase until November 10. RECENT BOOKS OF INTEREST TO THE LIST INCLUDE: Arkzin Press (Croatia): THE SPECTRE IS STILL ROAMING AROUND by Slavoj Zizek NATO AS THE LEFT HAND OF GOD by Slavoj Zizek Atelos: ALIEN TATTERS by Clark Coolidge VERISIMILITUDE by Hung Tu R-HU by Leslie Scalapino Avec: BENCHING WITH VIRGIL by Gad Hollander THE BIG LIE by Mark Wallace BENCHED by Cydney Chadwick Burning Deck: CROSSCUT UNIVERSE trans. and ed. Norma Cole REFT AND LIGHT trans. of Ernst Jandl by various THE HOUSE by Jane Unrue The Figures: SUNFLOWER by Jack Collom and Lyn Hejinian SHE WHO IS ALIVE by Robert Harris Ibis Editions: NEVER MIND by Taha Muhammad Ali STATIONS OF DESIRE (incl. trans. of Ibn Ibn 'Arabi) by Michael Sells Krupskaya: NUDE MEMOIR by Laura Moriarty A KNOT IS NOT A TANGLE by Ben Friedlander BEYOND THE SAFETY OF DREAMS by Mike Amnasan PARAMOUR by Stacy Doris Pavement Saw: FOGBOW BRIDGE by Richard Blevins THE BODY'S RESPONSE TO FAMINE by Dana Curtis HANDS COLLECTED: THE BOOKS OF SIMON PERCHIK Subpress Collective: EXES FOR EYES by John McNally THE OCCASIONAL TABLES by Scott Bently Talisman House: CROSSING CENTURIES: THE NEW GEN. IN RUSSIAN POETRY WORD OF MOUTH: AN ANTH. OF GAY AMERICAN POETRY edited by Timothy Liu A DOOR by Aaron Shurin THE NICHE NARROWS by Samuel Menashe Assorted Presses: NEW MANNERIST TRICYCLE by Jarnot, Luoma and Rod Smith (Beautiful Swimmer) ECHO REGIME by John Olson (Black Square Editions) SENSORY DEPRIVATION/DREAM POETICS by Damian Lopes (Coach House) MARIJUANA SOFT DRINK by Buck Downs (Edge Books) A BOOK OF THE BOOK ed. by Rothenberg and Clay (Granary) THE TWOFOLD VIBRATION by Raymond Federman (Green Integer) HAUNT by Keith Waldrop (Instance) THE BATTLEFIELD WHERE THE EARTH SAYS I LOVE YOU by Frank Stanford (Lost Roads) THOUSANDS COUNT OUT LOUD by George Albon (Lyric&) AT ANDY'S by George Stanley (New Star) WITTGENSTEIN'S DEVIL by Alan Halsey (Stride) BLACKBIRD DUST by Jonathan Williams (Turtle Point) And don't forget recent magazines: AMERICAN LETTERS AND COMMENTARY NO. 12 CHAIN NO. 7 DISPATCH DETROIT VOL. 4 THE GERM NO. 4 NEW AMERICAN WRITING NO. 18 RADDLE MOON NO. 18 SHINY NO. 11 SKANKY POSSUM NO. 4 SYLLOGISM NO. 3 TWO LINES: CROSSINGS UNTITLED NO. 1 --Brent Cunningham brent@spdbooks.org brentc@operamail.com ------------------------------------------------------------ This e-mail has been sent to you courtesy of OperaMail, as a free service from Opera Software, makers of the award-winning Web Browser, Opera. Visit us at http://www.opera.com/ or our portal at: http://www.myopera.com/ Your free e-mail account is waiting at: http://www.operamail.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:36:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Sweet Lorine In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >I've always heard LorEEn. > >On the other hand, I've never heard any consensus around whether it was >KNEE-decker or NIGH-decker. > >Ron If it were NIGH-decker it would be spelled Neidecker. -- George Bowering Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:35:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Sweet Lorine In-Reply-To: <20001018163651.GZDX5059.mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net@[12.90.19.16]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I cannot understand how anyone could even think of pronouncing it Lorine to rime with shine. If that happens much more I think we should call in the marEYEnes. -- George Bowering Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:03:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Women, Spartans, and Dangerous Things MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII === Women, Spartans, and Dangerous Things The Spartans sit down on hard rocks. They are beaten by their teachers. Something is tearing their entrails apart. They want girls and boys. The teachers beat them. Write about them. They shoot arrows. They are women only. They kill males. They reproduce though slaves. They kill slaves. They are fighters. They cut a breast for the string. Their hair is dark. They love each other. They are brilliant. When girls, a fox gnaws their entrails. They don't move. They are blood- covered. They are glorious debaters. They have daemons. Write about the daemons. Daemons are little boys who love little boys. They whisper from nowhere. They advise. They are brilliant. They give comfort to the body. They are part of the body. Daemons speak the truth. Write about the truth. The truth is they shoot arrows. They blind their prisoners. They cut the hands off their prisoners. They pillage cities. They rape women and speak babies. They rape children. Stars protect them. They are men. They grow from soil sewn with dragon teeth. Their love is furious. Write about their love. All young girls made women by Gilgamesh - the priestess, the votaries, the cult women. Even the fisherwomen's sleeves robes and long sleeves. Certain older women wept secretly. The courtiers were bestowed from within the misu. The women's dresses, women's clothes and rolls of brocade, a silver clothes chest, and colours shone through the karaginu. The women's figures also showed blue karaginu of a girl and were so beautiful that they made us women clap our hands, but no one came. Some went to call the women frivolous women, so those who wish to serve them and remain in favour are light-hearted, unashamed, thoughtless women, and men who visit our women may not be so. Even women of high birth must follow women, keeping us from doing what otherwise we could do easily. But see and not be seen, hung before great personages and women's other women surrounded with screens and attendants, or by beautiful women, selected from various provinces for their women - more of an animal presence. Around the fire were women. Write about the women. === ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:16:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Stephens Organization: Columbia University Subject: Felstiner on Celan at Barnard MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For anyone in the NYC area: Monday, October 23 (Barnard College, 116th and Broadway) "The One and Only Circle": Translating Paul Celan Time: 6:15 p.m., reception to follow Place: Ella Weed Room, 233 Milbank Hall John Felstiner's Selected Poems and Prose of Paul Celan (W.W. Norton) is to be published in October. His book "Paul Celan: Poet, Survivor, Jew" (1995) won the Truman Capote Prize for Literary Criticisms and was a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award. "Translating Neruda: The Way to Macchu Picchu" (1980) won the Commonwealth Club Gold Medal. He teaches literature and Jewish Studies at Stanford. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 02:00:01 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Jakobson on Metonymy & Metaphor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George. I was being a bit tongue in cheek,but I hasten to assure, not cheek in tongue...or chutneypattz.... altho what I said was basically true. But I'm re-reading a book called "Structuralism and Semiotics" by Terence Hawkes. So I'm doing some "swat" (in genuine penance).Will also dip into Jacobson etal.(chronusicus dispensicus). But in my "defence" - how many on the list are excrutiatingly au fait with the various philosphers and linguists. Where do you start or stop? I'll certainly be "boning up" on Barthes and some other philosophers I've "neglected". But if I read the "Idealist" philosophers then I surely must read Marx and to back him up Kant,Hegel, Aristotle and then more recently Wittgenstein,(who liked St Augustine who I have read but he didnt bother with Aristotle) Russell, Whitehead. Then what about William James (not to mention I've havent read much of his brother's writings(albeit he was a novelist)),and all the other philosophers including the Empiricists and then a swing back to Heiddegger, Berkley and Sartre.Then do I take in Husserl? A whirl with Husserl?Then what about my Logic. Logic leads into cybernetics and mathematics and the sciences. This leads me to religion and St Thomas Aquinas. Back to poetry - sorry but I havent read all the poets of the C16th and C17th. Then there are the many books on art theory... I dont think all your students are so much lazy as maybe many of them want to do some living as well as struggle through the bewildering number (and nature of) the texts that confront them. I'm not being sarcastic as being honest. To add to my Sisyphyean (dam, I haven't read Camus's "The Myth of Syphilus...I mean Sysyphus) woes, a friend of mine who dabbles in philosophy from the outside has sent me 3 great tomes: "Higher Superstition","Intellectual Impostures", and "Enemies of Hope" (the last by Raymond Tallis). These books all put the boot in to many of the modern French theorists. So I'll have to read them (or part therof) to see where they're coming from.(I did read Tallis's "Not Saussure" but I was not so sure about his Not Saussure (granted I agreed with him that even if one could postulate an infinite deferral of signification (if that's what it is) there was still an external "reality" -I'm simplifying the whole thing I know but I'm not trained in philosophy or liguistics- and so on, but feel that he "protesteth tooo much"). But I did appreciate your comments on Jacobson and want to have a good look (given time) at all these guys.Harold Teichmann assumes too much familiarity by people of or with Logic (especially what I think he is referring to predicate logic(?) which is quite difficult if one hasnt dealt with it for some years) but his comments look interesting. But I hope you were less offended than amused by my rather (humoresque?) comments. One good thing, this "debate" or discussion has sent me back to "school" and my books. Re Anna Karenina - after contemplating it "in tranquility" (whence it did flash upon that inward eye), I recall being puzzled by the book. Altho the episode of Levin working with the peasants I thought was powerful writing. But what was the function or relevance of the artist that A.K and Vronsky visited? As for Brando - he is a master mumbler, I'm serious. In "Sreet Car Named Desire" that's part of the power he brings to his role. By the way, I'm not a cat, so you dont have to be kind to me. And even if I was a cat, how could I thus be described as lazy or inarticulate? Read your Whitman!I have long, deeply informative, and fearfully intellectual discussions with my cat. Unlike my ex it doesnt throw things at me.Nor, mercifully, doth it deign to reply.Well, it does, but( in metacatalanguage): it signals that laziness is one of those pathetic notions pculiar to the merely human: for which its disdain is infinite. Such the regality of les chats.(Such chats with cats).Regards, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Thompson" To: Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 2:44 PM Subject: Re: Jakobson on Metonymy & Metaphor > In a message dated 10/4/00 9:03:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ writes: > > > George. I havent read any of the philosophers such as Jacobson. I've read > > bits and pieces of Foucault and one sentence from a book by Derrida. Most > of > > my knowledge of these guys is from reading lit crit. but your examples > sound > > interesting. Ididnt think much of A.K. And I fell asleep during the > > Godfather because I couldnt understand it. My ex enjoyed it. But I find > that > > I can never follow dialogue in movies (especially when its an Am one and > > blokes like Brando mumble too much.The English enunciate well so I can > > sometimes understand English movies.)I like the Three Stooges tho and > > Lawrence of Arabia. But its tragic that you missed my brilliant piece of > > "Dickensian" writing.(Abou a guy clled "Wing Nut" which I gave as an > example > > of Metonomy according to the Dict.) Forget about Jakobson and all those > > French guys. Read my poem The Red. Any way, what's the point of reading a > > big book just to have one exciting thing happen?Richard Taylor. > > > Look, Richard, I teach at an art school. I encounter lazy inarticulate > uninformed people all the time. People with chutzpah like yours. I try to > be kind to them. So I will try to be kind to you. You are funny. > > Best, > > George Thompson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:43:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: sweet Lorine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >yes, I'd always thought it was LoREEN, but had been asked about it a few >times and realized I'd never heard it from anybody who'd known her -- Am >surprised to learn that there was disagreement about the last name -- but >then, as a Nielsen, I always knew how a Niedecker would pronounce herself >(Though it's true that tongues tie themselves differently throughout the >mid-west -- one whole branch of my family gave up in exasperation and >became Nelsons) > > > >" Subjects > hinder talk." > -- Emily Dickinson > >Aldon Lynn Nielsen >Fletcher Jones Chair of Literature and Writing >Loyola Marymount University >7900 Loyola Blvd. >Los Angeles, CA 90045-8215 > >(310) 338-3078 " Subjects hinder talk." -- Emily Dickinson Aldon Lynn Nielsen Fletcher Jones Chair of Literature and Writing Loyola Marymount University 7900 Loyola Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90045-8215 (310) 338-3078 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:28:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: CMYANTTHEIRA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII === CMYANTTTHEIRA "DrEAm-stAtEs=HAvE=As=tHEIr=FunCtIon=tHE=AvoIDAnCE=oF=DIspLEAsurE."=But suCH=unEAsE=Is=not=In=rEsponsE=to=opprEssIon,=But=to=IntEnsE=sELFquEstIng BrEAsts=AnD=proCLAmAtIons,=HunGErED,=mAKInG=tHInGs.=ACross=tHE=pEnIsEs. CArvInG=out=A=tErrItory=oF=unEAsE.=CIEs=In=orGAnIC=AnD=In=soCIAL=LIFE InCrEAsE=AnD=IntEnsIFy=By=tHEIr=own=CLoAK=oF=nIGHt.=I=DrEAmED=oF=sEEInG your=BrEAsts=tHrouGH=your=torn=sKIrt.=ComForts=tHrouGH=ComForts,=pLEAsurEs AnD=ExHILErAtIons,=worrIEs,=sLIppInG.=DoInG=wHAt=otHErwIsE=wE=CouLD=Do EAsILy.=But=sEE=AnD=not=BE=sEEn,=HunG=EnvIronmEnt=wHICH=wILL=wIn=out=As CommunICAtIons=BEComEs=InCrEAsInGLy=rELEAsED.=tHE=DAnCE=Into=tHE=EvEnInG, HopInG=AGAInst=HopE,=AnD=wHo=Is=tHIs=rIm=oF=A=wHEEL-GrEAsE=pot=HunG=At=tHE AxLE=to=GrEAsE=tHE=wHEEL.=sEE=your=BrEAsts=tHrouGH=your=torn=sKIrt.=I DrEAmED=you=wErE=ComInG=on=to=sLow=AnD=DELICAtE=mEAsurE.=wHEn=you=LIFt your=LEG=EvEryonE=HAs=A=LooK.=tHE=DEptH=oF=tHIs=wAs=trouBLInG=tHrouGH=my DArK=nuB=oF=swoLLEn=BrEAsts=oF=sLAvEs.=tHEy=KILL=sLAvEs=wHo=kIll=us.=tHEy ArE=FIGHtErs.=tHEy=Cut=A=BrEAst=For=you. I am crazy I know but you know you are WANTING me because I am BRILLIANT-MATTER. pLEAsE=sAvE=mE,=LooK, I'LL=DAnCE=tHE=GrAnD=BAttEmEnt=pErFECt=For=you,=your BrEAsts. YOU ARE WANT ING ME """"" === === === ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:59:13 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Podium2@AOL.COM Subject: NYC Oct 25 celebration: 30th Anniv. of Iowa Review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The 30th Anniversary of THE IOWA REVIEW A Reception & Reading Wednesday, October 25, 2000 7:00 pm 15 West 43 Street New York, New York (between Fifth and Sixth Avenues) Take 1, 9, 4, 5, 6, N, R trains to 42nd Street. There is also a parking garage across the street, if you are coming by car. This special evening celebrates of one of America=E2=80=99s foremost literar= y=20 magazines. Iowa Review editor David Hamilton will be joined by prominent=20 Review contributors who will read from their work, including: Michael Cunningham, the author of The Hours, winner of the 1999 Pulitzer=20 Prize for Fiction. Cunningham=E2=80=99s work has been called =E2=80=9Ca grac= eful and=20 passionate homage to Virginia Woolf=E2=80=9D (Booklist); =E2=80=9Ca contempo= rary=20 masterpiece=E2=80=9D (Newsday); and =E2=80=9Chis most mature and masterful w= ork=E2=80=9D (The=20 Washington Post); Brian Lennon, a master of experimental hypertext fiction and current Columbi= a=20 Ph.D. candidate; Rebecca Wolff, poet, and editor of Fence magazine; Matthew Rohrer, National Poetry Series winner and author of A Hummock in the= =20 Malookas: Poems. Following the reading, there will be a reception to meet the authors. Copies= =20 of The Hours and A Hummock in the Malookas will be available for purchase. Please email to podium2@aol.com or (212) 604-4823. Business attire (jackets=20 for men) required. Free. =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:09:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: Sweet Lorine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit as a native of WEEsconsin I would say loReen Nighdecker if we are voting Ron Silliman wrote: > > I've always heard LorEEn. > > On the other hand, I've never heard any consensus around whether it was > KNEE-decker or NIGH-decker. > > Ron > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 01:18:07 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Shemurph@AOL.COM Subject: address for Steve Carll MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have an email address for Steve Carll? Please backchannel if so. Thanks. Sheila Murphy shemurph@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 08:44:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: Politics & Poetry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Announcing the second in PSA's series Poetry & Criticism: Poetry and Politics: Style and Substance Featuring Thomas Sayers Ellis, Marilyn Hacker, Erica Hunt, Ron Silliman Curated and Moderated by James Sherry Thursday, October 26th, 7 pm Vollman Auditorium Cooper Union Engineering Building 51 Astor Place (north side of the street between Third & Fourth Aves) $8; $4 for PSA Members ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:58:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lee Worden Subject: Re: Post Neocolloquium In-Reply-To: <200010200411.AAA03862@eno.Princeton.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII notes: that characteristic theme of choose between semanticist socialism and the patriarchial disciplined body-machine of the assembly line--Busby for/with/of desire, of sensation--beocomes productive-- the use suggests that we have heap of rubble tossed body (and its I would say that hopefully dud of nothing and walk in the receiver--and not from faster than walk off without so much sense.) The primary theme involved in the performance-- which for example at eyes, fingers, nose, of theories concerning the fatal be imposed--(and yet discourse, is continually the effort at any given limitations of discourse--) "my voice goes of Artaud devoted the neurological, the biochemical, is passing --St the body-- The world eroticizing of itself, of the ("constructed") perception according to a predominant concept is old mechanism--the whole discourse of have--and in the theory. (from "Guide to Found Marinetti, the works of Virilio and sexual identity that is as art poetry etc--) > -----Original Message----- > From: michael amberwind > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 2:03 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Post Neotextualism > > > "Class is responsible for sexism," says Marx; > however, according to Brophy, it is not so much > class that is responsible for sexism, but rather > the failure, and thus the meaninglessness, of > class. But if capitalism holds, we have to choose > [...] > futility, and therefore the absurdity, of > neotextual society. > > Of course, I could be wrong and invite List input > on the matter. > > > Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:10:30 -0500 > From: David Baptiste Chirot > Subject: Re: Colloquium > > entropy--it depends what sense of it one has in bringing it > up--entropy of the body toward the passive (?)----meaning saying > dying--"unto death"? > > on the other hand, via negentropy, "order out of chaos" as > Prigogine and Stengers have it in their book of that title-- > > a regeneration of the body-- [...] > > in this very sense of uncertainty at the core of > perception/discourse--is the very evidence of its being "open to > question"-- > > opening inwo/ards and outwo/ards-- > > > --dave baptiste chirot > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:32:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: tripindicular Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi everyone, I am just home from wandering around NY city and state, reading at the Poetry Project -- where I'd never been except in spirit -- and at Rust Belt Books in Buffalo, and hanging out with fabulous folks such as my coreaders Betsy Andrews and Arielle Greenberg, hosts Rachel Levitsky (who gave me one of the last copies of her first chapbook, somewhere in Manhattan around midnight, a real treat) and Linda Russo and Chris Alexander, as well as Barbara Cole, Michael Burkard, Ange Mlinko, Jonathan Skinner, and more. It was great to meet so many folks in non-cyber settings with cocktails night air and everything. Now I'm home, chilling down and promoting SPT's event this Friday, a reading by K. Silem Mohammad and Aaron Shurin, in our new luxe spot at CCAC, and also asking you all to contact me at smallpress@ccac-art.edu if you are interested in writing a short review for our newsletter.... Elizabeth ___________________________________________ Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page2.html ___________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 07:22:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Robert Lax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.nytimes.com/2000/10/24/arts/24LAX.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 07:57:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Michael G. Salinger" Subject: New E-mail for Salinger Comments: To: Zee Edgell , "zc@vais.net" , "Writer1@akron.infi.net" , connie mroczkowski , ruth morgan raffaeli , bob mcloughlin , james Robinsom , Kelly Prill , Mary Umbaugh , Leslie Collins , Diana Fernandez , Linda Majkrzak , jay Brice , Lisa Davidson , Renay Sanders , "wjek76a@prodigy.com" , Will Mowery , wendi , "WCGC@cleveland.com" , dawn m gabriel , "aapoet19@idt.net" , Scott Dickinson , tim_wood , Michael Salinger , "virgo@panix.com" , Victor Infante , "Victor D. Infante" , "unlikely@flash.net" , "trina2@pipeline.com" , tracy townsend , "tori@neo.lrun.com" , tom barnhart , Tom , tmp-kj@msn.email.com, "tmali@aol.com" , "times@ix.netcom.com" , tim_wood , Tim Mason , "TIFHOLLAND@aol.com" , Thomas Sayers Ellis , "thealu@en.com" , terry provost , Terrence Provost , Teresa D'Amico , Susan Grimm , Steve Lattimore , steve colman , "spwillis99@aol.com" , "southern67@hotmail.com" , Sonya Pouncy , "SlamSlave2@aol.com" , "slam@datawranglers.com" , simon adkins , simon adkins , "sholstad@corp.earthlink.net" , "Shemurph@aol.com" , Sean Shea , Scott Klein , scott in detroit , Scott Dickinson , sara , Samrat Upadhyay , "saligner@poetryslam.com" , Saladin Ali Ahmed , "sagriffin@mindspring.com" , Ryan McKenzie , "RUTHART@aol.com" , Ruth Schwartz , ruth morgan raffaeli , "ronand@webtv.net" , Ron Antonucci , Roger Bonair-Agard , rochelle , Robert Chicoine , Robb Thibault , "roballan@infinet.com" , Rob , "RMiltner@mail.stark.kent.edu" , "rjberry@usm.my" , Richard Taylor , reproj2 , Renee Tambeau , Renay Sanders , rebecca dotlidge , "RBixby@aol.com" , "RBEVE@emeraldhealth.com" , ray paganini , "r.drake@csu-e.csuohio.edu" , "PVicinanza@aol.com" , "providence2k@hotmail.com" , "Powers, John" , "pony@mail.utexas.edu" , Poetry Porch , "pliki@mediaone.net" , Phil West , "paula@musicworksnw.org" , paula hill , Paul Seres , Paul Konys , Paul Devlin , Patricia Willis , Patricia Smith , Patricia Princehouse , patricia p , Pat Percival , noel jones , NISA AHMAD , Nisa , nicki , "Nehferet@aol.com" , Mwatabu Okantah , "Moorebt@aol.com" , Monica Lee Copeland , mom , "MOFFETT@uscolo.edu" , "MMoore@uakron.edu" , "MMacAdam@kent.edu" , "millerworks@hotmail.com" , "mightymouth@earthlink.net" , Michael Salinger , Michael Salinger , michael norman , Michael Decapite , Michael Brown , Meg Guncik , "mcn@techline.com" , "McCoy@ezo.net" , Maxwel Salinger , Maryellen Kohn , Mary Umbaugh , "marvstudio@aol.com" , "markhart@webtv.net" , Marilyn Seguin , Margaret McNally , "Marc (So What!!??) Smith" , "mainstrag@mindspring.com" , Maggie Anderson , macsbacks , lou , Lori Emerson , Lord Urthstripe , "lisa.citore@amgreetings.com" , "Lisa Mart..." , Lisa Davidson , Linda Specht , linda montano , Linda Majkrzak , Leslie Collins , lee cole , laura putre , laura putre , Larry Smith , larry smith , "Kurvanas@aol.com" , Krystal Ashe , "KNimmo@mail.ic.net" , "knimmo@ic.net" , kirk brown , KIM WEBB <3waybar@email.msn.com>, Kim Holzer Leeds , Kim Holzer Leeds , Kim H , "khclark@multiverse.com" , Kenneth Mostern , Kelly Prill , kelly O'Connel , Kay , Karen Holbrook , Kappy Melari , Julliete Torrez , "julie@lek.net" , Julia Williams , julia ann , "jschilli@neo.lrun.com" , "jpaynekincaid@juno.com" , Josh Thompson , Joseph Jesensky , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9?= de Gouveia , jordon davis , Jonathan White , John Stickney , john redstar , "John R. Powers" , John Petkovic , "jlasee@midway.tds.net" , "JKOOISTRA@stark.kent.edu" , "jjwebb@cruzio.com" , Jim Palmarini , jerry quickly , Jennifer Lee Wentzel , "jean` brandt" , jay Brice , jared , "janetb@panix.com" , Jamie Kennedy , james Robinsom , "jacksabbath@yahoo.com" , impetus , "im-hazel@iname.com" , Her Divine Serenity , henry sampson , Henry Sampson , hazel , guy , GNO , glazner , Gabrielle Bouliane , Gabrielle Bouliane , Gabrielle , "Freshpoetz@aol.com" , Free Times , Frank Green , Frank Clark Edwards III , Fernando & Betsy Traba , evert , "espicer@accn.org" , Eric Broder , "energy1960@aol.com" , "Ellie5Berg@aol.com" , elizabeth , eitan kadosh , "ebani@africana.com" , "drourke@laurelschool.com" , Doug Miller , Diana Fernandez , Deb Marsh , dawn m gabriel , David Lackey , David Huang , David Hassler , David Baratier , Dave Snodgrass , Darlene Montonaro , "Daniel.C.Briehl@lerc.nasa.gov" , Daniel Ferri , "D.M." , Crystal Decker , Cristin O Aptowicz , Cristin Aptowicz , copper trainer , CONNIE SCHULTZ , connie mroczkowski , "comma-d@wcsb.org" , Cleveland Live , Cleveland Arts , ciro viamontes , Christopher Holmok , Christopher Holmok , Chris Bunsey , Charles Ellik , "CEllik@aol.com" , "PoetryCenter@csu-e.csuohio.edu" , amy sparks , Bill Newbie , Blayne Hoerner , boogie , Buddy Ray McNiece , Carol Spiros , Chris Bunsey , Her Divine Serenity , Cleveland Live , Dave Snodgrass , David Lackey , Frank Green , John Stickney , John Petkovic , Kay , laura putre , lou , Maryellen Kohn , Pat Percival , Patricia Princehouse , Paul Konys , "r.drake@csu-e.csuohio.edu" , rebecca dotlidge , Renee Tambeau , Rob , tracy townsend , Terrence Provost , Ron Antonucci , macsbacks , KIM WEBB <3waybar@email.msn.com>, tmp-kj@msn.email.com, "bemmett_rader@yahoo.com" , "pliki@mediaone.net" , "drourke@laurelschool.com" , "spwillis99@aol.com" , "lisa.citore@amgreetings.com" , "D.M." , "marvstudio@aol.com" , "energy1960@aol.com" , Catherine Donnelly , Catherine A Monreal , Carol Spiros , Carol Spiros , Carlisle V , Carl Smith , Carl Feather , buddy wakefield , buddy wakefield , Buddy Ray McNiece , Bud , Bruce Weigl , bowerbird , boogie , Bob Nelson , Bob Nelson , bob mcloughlin , bob holman , Blue Tang , Blayne Hoerner , "bjmoossy@aol.com" , "BILLHOLB@aol.com" , Bill Newbie , Big Poppa E , Big Poppa E , "bemmett_rader@yahoo.com" , beau sia , Bakatalk , Aubrey Wertheim , april baer , Angus Adair , amy sparks , amy sparks , Alexis O'Hara , alexis o'hara , al letson , "aapoet19@idt.net" , "ygreen@akrm.ohhio.gov" , "tfuentez@thebeaconjournal.com" , "snank@main.ursuline.edu" , "skinnyink@juno.com" , "r. a. washington" , "PoetryCenter@csu-e.csuohio.edu" , "Peter W. Bristol" , "opus23@worldnet.att.net" , "Onyxvelvet@aol.com" , "nimmo@flash.net" , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael=A0Grant?= Jaffe , "lumoxraindog@earthlink.net" , "luigi r. drake" , "llacook@yahoo.com" , "KDavis@kent.edu" , "Jplcpac@aol.com" , "jmwasha@hotmail.com" , "jmawasha@hotmail.com" , "Impsnewt@aol.com" , "HFIBAS@aol.com" , "GoGoBot@yahoo.com" , "GLeCharles@aol.com" , "Gillespie, Cheryl" , "Giannico@hotmail.com" , "gardiner@kent.net" , "filipski@atlantic.net" , "FCunning@kent.edu" , "Eleirbag@aol.com" , "dxd25@po.cwru.edu" , "david_pishnery@mk.com" , "DARKPRINT@aol.com" , "chironreview@webtv.net" , "Chandler@iswt.com" , "bonniep@napanet.net" , "BlairE1061@aol.com" , "BKarman@cannet.com" , "BHorvath@stark.kent.edu" , "bear@hooked.net" , "Bandasea@aol.com" , "au462@cleveland.freenet.edu" , "ajames@akronpovertyfree.com" , "ah419@cleveland.freenet.edu" , "aeboclear@ameritech.net" , "ACone@kent.edu" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit somehow you ended up in my address book. this is to let you know my E-mail address has changed. it is now salinger@ameritech.net sorry if you receive this message more than once. thanks, michael salinger -- People say law, but they mean wealth ralph waldo emerson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:09:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Stefans, Brian" Subject: Queries Comments: To: "" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Does anyone have email addresses for Barry Masuda or Linh Dinh (and is he even in the United States these days)? Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 20:12:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Skinner Subject: COULTAS/KELLEHER at STEEL BAR Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This Saturday 28 October, STEEL BAR presents BRENDA COULTAS MIKE KELLEHER 8 PM Suite 551 Tri-Main Building 2495 Main Street Buffalo, NY $3 donation Cash bar ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:41:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Larsen Subject: Lotto In-Reply-To: <043a01c02bcd$28c58fe0$dcfe6520@herbert> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" "A game of chance and skill played by matching real and imagined experiences to their corresponding cardinal numbers and submitting them with a dollar to the state." L A U R E N G U D A T H T H I S K I N D O F I N T E R P R E T A T I O N B R I N G S L U C K "At the laundry they will think less of her -- her and weird goo." With 50 illustrations by David Larsen $7 ppd., concealed or payable to: Beth Murray and David Larsen 829 Park Way Oakland CA 94606 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 23:28:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: STEEL BAR MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This came to the administrative account. - TS --On Tuesday, October 24, 2000, 8:21 PM -0400 "Jonathan Skinner" wrote: " And since I forgot to post the entire calendar when I should have, " here it is: " " STEEL BAR EVENTS, FALL 2000 " in BUFFALO " " Sat. Oct. 7 " " The ELEVATOR Box Project: " " Celebration of The Box Project artist's book, the second publishing " effort of ELEVATOR, in an opening reception and performance hosted by " Michael Kelleher, curated by Roberto Tejada, and inspired by artist Brian " Collier. Boxes and their contents of collected objects and writings " from Buffalo literati on display and on sale to help benefit " ELEVATOR. Performances/readings by Rosa Alcala, Chris Alexander, Joel " Bettridge, Brian Collier, Kristen Gallagher, Michael Kelleher, Ike Kim, " Brian Lampkin, Doug Manson, Tim McPeek, Linda Russo, Jonathan Skinner. " " [Boxes are still available for purchase: Mike Kelleher has the details.] " " " Sat. Oct. 28 " " Brenda Coultas " Mike Kelleher " " Sat. Nov. 11 " " Caroline Bergvall " " Sat. Dec. 9 " " Dan Machlin " Eddie Berrigan " " All events at 8 PM. $3 donation. Cash bar. " " The Steel Bar is located in the Tri-Main Building, 2495 Main Street " (entrance on Halbert), Suite 551. " " For further information, email " jskinner@acsu.buffalo.edu, or telephone (716) 834-0958 " ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 11:10:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik Mike Topp We were going to post a slightly weird, erotically charged translation of Neruda from Mike, or that's what Mike claims it is, but Exquisite Corpse #7 seems to have the jump on us by about two days. Here's something slightly more, uh, expected, from Mike, if that's not an oxymoron. Mike can be reached at mike_topp@hotmail.com. FIVE POEMS Poem No. 6 martober Poem F sexual water Poem XXX chorpatélico Poem No. 7 rubber policeman Poem XXXI pimpavonillas MY FAVORITE QUOTATIONS Ford salesmen don’t shoot Chevy salesmen. Meyer Lansky _____________________________________________________________ Keep your friends close but your enemies even closer. Gaetano Lucchese _____________________________________________________________ I like to be by myself. Misery loves company. Antonio (Tony Ducks) Corrallo _____________________________________________________________ God is a fucking fag. John Gotti _____________________________________________________________ Mother is the best bet and don’t let Satan draw you too fast. Dutch Schultz _____________________________________________________________ I told you a million fucking times. I don’t like being called Gas Pipe. Anthony (Gas Pipe) Casso _____________________________________________________________ A boy has never wept nor dashed a thousand kim. Dutch Schultz _____________________________________________________________ Crime doesn’t pay--well, not like it used to. Joe E. Lewis _____________________________________________________________ Jeez, I could go for a slice. Peter (Fat Pete) Chiodo _____________________________________________________________ HE He always brags about his huge duck. He is a Woozle. His name is Peanut. He enjoys pantaloons more than he should. He is dead and therefore unable to come to the phone. He has a figure like Marcia Brady. He has an extra Y chromosome. He has a really nice skull. He has a face that makes no sense. He is not worried; he is in the title. He sure hopes that’s pudding. He is surrounded by adoring housewives. He tampered in God’s domain. He is the clown who makes the dark side fun. He tried to kill me with a forklift. EXISTENTIAL VOID existential void where prohibited * Alf, NO!! Mike Topp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:36:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: levitsk@ATTGLOBAL.NET Subject: New Belladonna* Books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Now available from Belladonna* Books and the the BELLADONNA* Reading Series 2 new commemorative pamphlets: Fanny Howe, parts from Indivisible, $3.00, $5.00 signed Eleni Silelianos, exerpts from The Book of Jon, $3.00, $5.00 signed (both printed in edition of 100, 26 signed and lettered) forthcoming: Laura Mullen, Beth Murray, Tisa Bryant Also available chapbooks (digest size, black ink on ivory paper) Belladonna* 1 Mary Burger, Eating Belief, 12 pages, $3 Belladonna* 2 Camille Roy, Dream Girls, 12 pages, $3 Belladonna* 3 Cecilia Vicuña, Bloodskirt, 12 pages, $3 postcards kari edwards, "go this way quickly" & "every amerikan amusement park" $1 each; set of two, $1.50 Publications are printed in limited editions, a small portion of which are numbered and signed by the authors. Subscriptions 5 unsigned chapbooks, $15 ppd. 10 unsigned chapbooks, $27 ppd. (Buy 9, get 1 free) 5 signed & numbered chapbooks, $25 ppd. 10 signed & numbered chapbooks, $45 ppd. (Buy 9, get 1 free) Ordering info Add 50¢ postage/item ordered (excluding subscriptions) Please send check or money order payable to: Rachel Levitsky Belladonna* Books 458 Lincoln Place, #4B Brooklyn, NY 11238 Email: levitsk@attglobal.net for more information Thanks, Rachel Levitsky, editor, Belladonna* Books David Kirschenbaum, publisher, Boog Literature ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:36:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: levitsk@ATTGLOBAL.NET Subject: Belladonna* November--Mh, Mh, Mullen and Murray (Laura, Beth) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit pardon cross post ENJOY (and please note change in time) BELLADONNA* 6:30 pm, FRIDAY--NOVEMBER 3, 2000 Laura Mullen The Tales of Horror, After I Was Dead & Beth Murray Hope Eternity Seen on the Hip of a Rabbit at Bluestockings Women's Bookstore 172 Allen Street between Rivington and Stanton on the Lower East Side of Manhattan Contact: (212)777-6028 for more information ### And when I get to the end Of a word I can't recall what I Was saying. Or so I imagine her Writing. When she tries to write. The absence of memory. The mess She makes going over and over it. -Laura Mullen from THE WORLD AS WILL AND… Laura Mullen studied at UC Berkeley and the University of Iowa. Her awards include Ironwood's Stanford Prize and a National Endowment for the Arts Fellowship. Her first collection of poems, The Surface (University of Illinois Press, 1991), was a National Poetry Series Selection. Her second collection of poems, After I Was Dead was published by the University of Georgia, and a book-length work, The Tales of Horror, was published by Kelsey St. Press. ### down on the couch she's absorbing licking off a drama popsicle --Beth Murray from 12 Horrors Beth Murray is the author of Hope Eternity Seen on the Hip of a Rabbit (a+bend, 1999) Spell, and Into the Salt (Lucinda, 1997, 1998) She co-edits "The San Jose Manual of Style" with David Larson. She has published in Antenym, Fence, Kenning, Mirage #4 Period(ical), Non, No Roses Review, Tinfish and Volt. Her work is forthcoming in Skanky Possum. She lives in Oakland. from, Rachel Levitsky coordinator http://www.theeastvillageeye.com/belladonna/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:47:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dickison Subject: CECIL TAYLOR reading @ The Luggage Store, Nov 30, 8 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a rare self-override of my so-called rules....I'm sending out notice for this non-Poetry Center-affiliated event, happening at the Luggage Store Gallery on Market St, SF, one week from tonight. Please respond to Laurie at the gallery with your queries: luggagestore509@hotmail.com Their phone, etc, appears below. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D CECIL TAYLOR will be performing his poetry Monday, October 30, 8:00 pm at The Luggage Store gallery on Market at 6th Street (1007 Market--west of Powell St. BART station) with Marco Eneidi, alto saxophone & Spirit, percussion $15 under-employed $20 advance/$25 at door tel 415-255-5971 =46or advance tickets, mail a check to The Luggage Store, 1007 Market St, SF 94103, or stop by during daytime gallery hours. (You might as well have lunch at Tu Lan around the corner if you're down there.) Their e-mail is luggagestore509@hotmail.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ vox 415-338-3401 ~ fax 415-338-0966 http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 23:09:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: Fence Books Presents Comments: To: rebecca@poetrysociety.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The Alberta Prize and the Fence Modern Poets Series The Alberta Prize, sponsored by Fence Books in conjunction with the Alberta duPont Bonsal Foundation, awards $5,000 and publication to a female poet writing in English for a first or second full-length book of poetry. The Fence Modern Poets Series, sponsored by Fence Books and Saturnalia Books, offers $1,000 and publication for a book by a poet writing in English at any stage in his or her career. For complete guidelines and entry form for both contests: http://www.fencemag.com or send an SASE to: Alberta Prize and/or Fence Modern Poets Series, 14 Fifth Avenue, #1A, New York, NY 10011 Please pass this information along to appropriate friends *** And come help launch Fence #6 Wednesday, October 25th, 8 pm Forrest Gander D.A. Powell Elizabeth Robinson Teachers & Writers 5 Union Square West New York $8, or $12 for a subscription to Fence ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 03:21:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII == |=o==o.o=o||=oo==.==o||=oo=o.oo=||==o==.===||=oo=o.===||=oo==.==o| |=ooo=.o==||==o==.===||=oooo.=o=||=ooo=.ooo||=oo==.o=o||=oo=o.==o| |==o==.===||=o===.==o||=ooo=.o=o||=oo==.ooo||=oo==.o=o||=oo=o.oo=| |==o==.===||=oooo.=o=||=ooo=.o=o||=ooo=.oo=||=oo=o.==o||=oo==.o=o| |=oo=o.o==||==o=o.oo=||====o.=o=| Man=hat=zwei=Augen=zuviel.= Rilke.= == ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:10:09 -0800 Reply-To: arshile@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Salerno Organization: Arshile: A Magazine of the Arts Subject: Contact Info For Brian Lucas? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Colleagues: Anyone with contact information for Brian Lucas, please back channel. Thank you. Mark Salerno ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:05:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Review of Ammiel Alcalay's *Masque* In-Reply-To: <200009220412.AAA06325@dept.english.upenn.edu> from "Automatic digest processor" at Sep 22, 2000 00:11:42 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe Safdie, of this list, reviews Ammiel Alcalay's *Masque in the Form of a Cento* (hole, 2000) at: http://www.corpse.org His review is an extensive appreciation of Alcalay's other writings as well. Alcalay's chapbook is still available for $7 (please email me if interested). All best, Louis Cabri ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 00:09:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Arielle C. Greenberg" Subject: Re: RealPoetik Notes: Two New Little Mags of Note In-Reply-To: <1F0B0695C95@mail.uca.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII And unless this is another _Fence_, it's not from Buffalo. It's in NYC and I don't think Rebecca Wolfe was ever at Buffalo, was she? Arielle **************************************************************************** "I thought numerous gorgeous sadists would write me plaintive appeals, but time has gone by me. They know where to get better looking boots than I describe." -- Ray Johnson On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, J Gallaher wrote: > > Fence is hardcopy, increasingly scarce, from SUNY at Buffalo > (but not, apparently, devoted exclusively to the works of Charles > Bernstein and Bruce McAndrews and their wide circle of > tenured and tenure track friends). > > > -----------------------FF00,0000,0000And li'l ol' me replies: > > > _Fence_ is indeed a very good magazine, but I don't think the > crack against "tenured" etc. was appropriate or in very good > taste . In fact, I don't understand the motivation behind it at all > (and why is Bruce Andrews suddenly Irish?). > > > When I see comments of this nature--flippant, nestled in a > different context--I've just gotta scratch me 'ead. (As me dear > ol' grampy'ld say.) > > > --JGallaher > > PS. Neither tenured nor tenure track > > PPS. But ever hopeful0100,0100,0100Garamond > > > J Gallaher > > Metaphors Be With You . . . > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 01:00:58 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Fewell Subject: Re: Young People Against Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/25/00 11:23:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jtranter@JACKET.ZIP.COM.AU writes: << Who said young people these days don't care about poetry? From "The Australian" newspaper, Friday 20 October 2000: "A group calling itself Young People Against Poetry protested outside the Brisbane Writers Festival yesterday, declaring poetry frivolous and culturally divisive." Brisbane is a city in the northern Australian state of Queensland. - John Tranter, Jacket magazine >> Were they burning copies of 'Farenheit 451"? aaron keith _________________________________________________ _________________________________________________ "Like everything I say has to mean something . . ." --Andy Richter _________________________________________________ _________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:55:09 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: RealPoetik Notes: Two New Little Mags of Note MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear J. I dont think it was a vicious anti language poetics attack. I = think they made a misprint or a typo: by some associational or = psychological slip they meant to write: tethered.(Not "tenured") And = some how the rest is lost but its to do with the magazine's title. So I = think everythings o.k. for now. I hope that clears that little matter = up. Richard. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: J Gallaher=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 4:00 AM Subject: Re: RealPoetik Notes: Two New Little Mags of Note ------------------------RealPoetik Notes that: Fence is hardcopy, increasingly scarce, from SUNY at Buffalo (but not, = apparently, devoted exclusively to the works of Charles Bernstein and = Bruce McAndrews and their wide circle of tenured and tenure track = friends). -----------------------And li'l ol' me replies: _Fence_ is indeed a very good magazine, but I don't think the crack = against "tenured" etc. was appropriate or in very good taste . In fact, = I don't understand the motivation behind it at all (and why is Bruce = Andrews suddenly Irish?). When I see comments of this nature--flippant, nestled in a different = context--I've just gotta scratch me 'ead. (As me dear ol' grampy'ld = say.) --JGallaher PS. Neither tenured nor tenure track PPS. But ever hopeful J Gallaher Metaphors Be With You . . . ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 06:13:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baptiste Chirot Subject: [Y4M] !*CROSSROAD Support Network Vol. 9, #2 Fall 2000 (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:26:30 -0400 From: Marpessa Kupendua To: Subject: [Y4M] !*CROSSROAD Support Network Vol. 9, #2 Fall 2000 FORWARDED MESSAGE ==================== From: Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 8:11 AM Peace - The latest edition of CROSSROAD is available. If you would like a copy, please e-mail your name & address to CRSN@aol.com, or you can send a self-addressed stamped envelope for the latest publication. The latest edition includes the following: *Who Say's Hip Hop is Dead??? - Oronde Balagoon *New Afrikan Declaration of Independence *Women in Prison - Bonnie Kerness *Cast Away Illusions Build The N.A.P.A (New Afrikan Prisoner Alliance) - Seldom Seen *CROSSROAD Interview w/Larvester Gaither, the publisher of the Gaither Reporter. Brother Gaither was active in the struggle to stop the execution of Shaka Sankofa. We had the conversation in the aftermath of the execution, which was carried out on June 22. *Prisons, Social control and Political Prisoners *The People Must Be Politically Armed - CRSN *Q's & A's - CRSN *The Mission of The Jericho Movement ..and a few more articles. "The army is not always a school of war; more often, it is a school of civic and political education. The soldier of an adult nation is not simple mercenary but a citizen who by means of arms defends the nation." - Frantz Fanon - "The Wretched of the Earth" -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/4/_/30522/_/972517032/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> Stop the execution! New trial for Mumia! Youth & Students for Mumia http://www.mumia2000.org To subscribe or unsubscribe email: youth-4-mumia-owner@egroups.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 04:14:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Loden Subject: Re: Young People Against Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This brings back the giddy heyday of Ladies Against Women, which seems poised to have a resurgence in the Shrub years. "Abolish the environment. It takes up too much space, and is almost impossible to keep clean." Rachel Loden John Tranter wrote: > > Who said young people these days don't care about poetry? > > From "The Australian" newspaper, Friday 20 October 2000: > > "A group calling itself Young People Against Poetry > protested outside the Brisbane Writers Festival yesterday, > declaring poetry frivolous and culturally divisive." > > Brisbane is a city in the northern Australian state of Queensland. > > - John Tranter, Jacket magazine -- Rachel Loden http://www.thepomegranate.com/loden/hotel.html email: rloden@concentric.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 08:54:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William A Sylvester Subject: Charles Olson Society MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Address for Ralph Maud's Minutes of the Charles Olson Society 1104 Maple St. Vancouver B:C V6J3R6 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 09:06:25 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: once again... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" re-posting this job opening... please feel free to re-post to any/all lists you're aware of, thanx!... best, joe ------------------------------------------- University of Colorado, Boulder Department of English Campus Box 226 Boulder, Colorado 80309 Assistant Professor, tenure-track: Fiction writer. Prefer background in women's or ethnic literature, commitment to teaching, one book published. Creative Writing offers undergraduate major and M.A. programs. Teaching load 2/2; salary competitive. Letter and c.v. only by 30 November to Creative Writing Search Committee. The University of Colorado, Boulder, is committed to diversity and equality in education and employment. http://www.colorado.edu/English/creativewriting ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 11:22:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cassandra Laity Subject: Submissions for Special Issue: "Gender and WWI" Comments: cc: modstudies-l@lists.psu.edu, h-afro-am@h-net.msu.edu, tse@lists.missouri.edu, modernism@u.washington.edu, victoria@listserv.indiana.edu, modbrits@listserv.kent.edu, h-amstdy@h-net.msu.edu, hdsoc-l@uconnvm.uconn.edu, modernism@lists.village.virginia.edu In-Reply-To: <957891649.39184441503a0@webmail.drew.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Submissions are sought for an upcoming SPECIAL ISSUE of _MODERNISM/MODERNITY_, co-edited by Robert von Hallberg and Cassandra Laity on the topic: GENDER AND WORLD WAR I Please send submissions (25-30 pp.) to EITHER editor by APRIL 1, 2001. Robert von Hallberg Cassandra Laity _Modernism/Modernity_ _Modernism/Modernity_ Department of Germanic Studies Department of English University of Chicago Drew University 1050 E. 59th St. 36 Madison Avenue Chicago, IL 60637 Madison, NJ 07940 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:17:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII -- a man is dead at every instance of the letter a woman is dead thereunto woman is dead at every instance of the letter man is dead thereunto behold the last second of the day, when humans originate across the great divide, behold the last thirtieth of a second the fragility of what has become the lip from which we issue forth until noon, the stromatolites alone until, behold, thereunto, three in the cold cold afternoon behold the violence wracking the slim planet time and time again behold the ideologies of froth insect-minds carrying on this violent work the divide is immeasurable and writing this a man is dead, has died immeasurable space, writing this a woman, dead, all women and all men all have died thereunto behold until, at the very lip of time all are dying at every instance thereunto, behold, at such lips of space archives grate against archives and we are blind behold thereunto until archives collapse are gathered among the dead and those of all are dying behold the instance of the very lip of time and its irritation thereunto men are dying amidst the lips of vastness, time and space until thereunto women dying, all are bleak, until, begone -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:46:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: FW: one click=$1.00 breast cancer research donation from Yahoo Comments: To: J Keene , Jorge Cortinas , Veronica Majano , Wura-Natasha Ogunji , Mara Ann , Anne-Mary Mullen , Renee Gladman , Renee Mercado , Stefani Barber , Rachel Bernstein , Rachel Levitsky , viviantravillion , Spencer_Bernatt , Carolyn_Gayden , Carolina Santiago , Nona Bryant , Steve , Jill Stengel , Aja Couchois Duncan , Michele Hunter , Suheir Hammad , Robin Templeton , Rosebraz , Sarah Rosenthal , Laurence Padua , Gigi Otalvaro-Hormillosa , ultra down productions In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello, all! If you go to http://health.yahoo.com and click on the PINK RIBBON, Yahoo will donate $1.00 to the Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer Foundation. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:49:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dickison Subject: call for entries: POETRY CENTER BOOK AWARD 2000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable THE POETRY CENTER BOOK AWARD Deadline: December 31, 2000. ** Read a good book of poetry this year? Please forward this notice to anyone you think might be interested. ** The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives invites submissions for its annual Book Award. The Poetry Center Book Award has been given since 1980 to an outstanding book of poetry published by an individual author in the current year. Past winners of the award include: Alice Notley, Sharon Olds, Larry Eigner, Laura Moriarty, Jackson Mac Low, Yusef Komunyakaa, Lyn Hejinian, Luis J. Rodriguez, Adrian Louis, Leslie Scalapino, C.D. Wright, Barbara Guest, Jane Hirshfield, and Elaine Equi. Cole Swensen's book _Try_ (University of Iowa, 1999) was selected this year by judge Elizabeth Robinson for the 1999 Award. The award consists of a $500 cash prize to the poet and an invitation to read in the Poetry Center reading series. To be eligible, books must be published and copyrighted in 2000. The award is for a single volume of poetry by an individual author: anthologies, collaborations or translations are not accepted. To enter, mail one copy of 2000 copyright book plus a $10 entry fee to: Poetry Center Book Award The Poetry Center 1600 Holloway Avenue San Francisco CA 94132 Deadline for entries is December 31, 2000. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ vox 415-338-3401 ~ fax 415-338-0966 http://www.sfsu.edu/~newlit ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:54:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: greg Subject: Fwd: Polylingual Spelchek Sez: Garden Advise and Great Fox at Zinc Comments: To: FPR@history.upenn.edu, fuller@center.cbpp.org, GasHeart@aol.com, gbiglier@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, gmarder@hotmail.com, gnawyouremu@hotmail.com, goodwina@xoommail.com, hstarr@dept.english.upenn.edu, hthomas@Kutztown.edu, insekt@earthlink.net, ivy2@sas.upenn.edu, jeng1@earthlink.net, jennifer_coleman@edf.org, jimstone2@juno.com, jjacks02@astro.ocis.temple.edu, JKasdorf@mcis.messiah.edu, JKeita@aol.com, jlutt3@pipeline.com, JMURPH01@email.vill.edu, johnfattibene@juno.com, josman@astro.ocis.temple.edu, jschwart@thunder.ocis.temple.edu, jvitiell@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, jwatkins@unix.temple.edu, kelly@dept.english.upenn.edu, Kjvarrone@aol.com, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, kyle.conner@mail.tju.edu, kzeman@sas.upenn.edu, lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu, lcary@dept.english.upenn.edu, leo@isc.upenn.edu, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, llisayau@hotmail.com, lsoto@sas.upenn.edu, MARCROB2000@hotmail.com, marf@netaxs.com, matthart@english.upenn.edu, Matthew.McGoldrick@ibx.com, mbmc@op.net, Measurelvis@aol.com, melodyjoy2@hotmail.com, mgpiety@drexel.edu, mholley@brynmawr.edu, michaelmccool@hotmail.com, miyamorik@aol.com, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, mnichol6@osf1.gmu.edu, mollyruss@juno.com, mopehaus@hotmail.com, MTArchitects@compuserve.com, mytilij@english.upenn.edu, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, nawi@citypaper.net, odonnell@siam.org, penwaves@mindspring.com, pla@sas.upenn.edu, poetry4peeps@hotmail.com, prapra@aol.com, putnamc@washpost.com, QDEli@aol.com, rachelmc@sas.upenn.edu, rdupless@vm.temple.edu, rediguanas@erols.com, richardfrey@dca.net, robinh5@juno.com, ron.silliman@gte.net, SeeALLMUSE@aol.com, sernak@juno.com, Sfrechie@aol.com, singinghorse@erols.com, stewart@dept.english.upenn.edu, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu, susan.wheeler@nyu.edu, SusanLanders@yahoo.com, swalker@dept.english.upenn.edu, Ron.Swegman@mail.tju.edu, Tasha329@aol.com, tdevaney@brooklyn.cuny.edu, thorpe@sas.upenn.edu, travmar03@msn.com, twells4512@aol.com, upword@mindspring.com, v2139g@vm.temple.edu, vhanson@netbox.com, vmehl99@aol.com, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, wvanwert@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, wwhitman@libertynet.org, ywisher@hotmail.com, zurawski@astro.temple.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:00:43 -0500 >Subject: Polylingual Spelchek Sez: Garden Advise and Great Fox at Zinc >From: Jordan Davis >To: Rebecca Wolff > >Greg Fuchs and Jordan Davis >read their poetries >at Zinc Bar >(Houston & LaGuardia) >Sunday October 29 6:37 pm >For just one three-dollar bill > >Great Fox is the author of Came Like It Went. He coordinates the Highwire >reading series in Philadelphia. > >Garden Advise's forthcoming chapbooks include Yeah, No and A Winter >Magazine. He stands in front of the audience at Poetry City readings and >says things. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 23:25:59 -0400 Reply-To: ggatza@daemen.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Organization: Vorple Sword Publishing Subject: Blaze 21st Centruy Voice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Blaze 21st Century Voice www.vorplesword.com Salutations So he elbow’s me and start’s in on his cat again. How she’s on the internet all the time digging up all kinds of crazy europorn and developed from somewhere a strange snuff habit. How she got into the stuff he doesn’t know but he suspects his neighbor’s cat Taffy. This was the voice that heralded the new beginnings of a new year, decade, century and millennium festivities. I alone, caught away from friends on a train riding home from a dull New Years party forced to listen to his man jabbering on with his crazy talk. This was the voice of the new era blabbering on and on But it’s the snuff alright and she must be at it all the time the way he’s going on about it. He certainly didn’t approve of his little baby, a caramel colored kitty getting hooked to powdered tobacco. I gathered she snorted it off a paw, not the floor. Who’d figure it. This was the 21st century voice and it had me by the elbow It’s one thing, he says, when she uses his credit card to order gritty litter or those damn tinkling toys from pets.com and its another thing entirely to go out with god knows who’s cat to buy a few tins with money stolen from may wallet. I know, he says, that’s why you hid it from me … I know. But why snuff? What’s wrong with smoking. Its more American than falafel. As I listened on as the unwitting wedding guest wishing Life and Death would gambol everything away … for all the mediaspun paranoia-hype to unfurl its leathery black wings, unleash its energies in a kinetic explosion any terrorists would gleem for … right here … right now … in the LaSalle St. Station … cleanse us all, destroy us … all from this boring bantering voice of mediocrity. Oh I should talk I know, me with my beer. But who do sells this stuff to a one year old cat, is what I want to know. And you know this will only lead to other inhalants, you know that don’t you. I heard it on NPR. Teenage boys who sniff tobacco ultimately spin off to cocaine, a natural progression of sorts. And if I can’t afford to use the stuff you don’t think I’m going to foot the bill for a cat’s coke habit. He pauses, It’ll be the SPCA rescue service after her then out on the streets strung out … And so disappointed by this heralding angel, guardian of the new century, I decided to explore who, what, this new century could offer. To beat the ground with a buffalo I offer you Blaze An electronic journal of the 21st Century Voice. A vision as it were, of a low cost medium seeking you in wide open spaces. Using new devices whose names are acronyms posing as nouns. This is the voice of the new … and I invite you to explore whatever it is we find. This, our first issue is a dedicated to Ernst Jandl, who died on June 9th, 2000. Jandl’s voice exemplifies all that is possible. Opening the field for exploring the symbols we communicate with. I believe this is an appropriate remembrance with which to begin. Ever & Affectionately, Geoffrey Gatza www.vorplesword.com Blaze 21st Century Voice ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:41:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael amberwind Subject: Re: Pomo Down Under MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "A group calling itself Young People Against Poetry protested outside the Brisbane Writers Festival yesterday, declaring poetry frivolous and culturally divisive." Brisbane is a city in the northern Australian state of Queensland. - John Tranter, Jacket magazine ******* they forgot blessedly useless - subversive - socially undigestable - probably leads to alcoholism and drug use - all praise the frivolous and divisive pack my bags Mary - off to Australia I go ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:43:57 +1300 From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Curses! Foiled Again! The Machine's Comment Michael. But how do you know, after all, I am a postmodern thesis. That is, if I'm not, then I'm a Post Modern Thesis Generator.Or I'm the idea of one. The metonomy or the metalingwylealeology of one. Like Andy Warhol and maybe Christopher Dewdney, and some of Charles Bernstein's fellow machines (I mean fellows) I've always dreamed of being a machine. Not for me the romance of being a rugged 6 foot 6 All Black (Rugby Player or sacred member of New Zealand's most sacred Religion), or a Brad Pitt with bevvys of luscious...no! Or even a Byron. No. All traces of squeamish and pathetic lyricism have been expelled from my most mechanistic and possibly satanic soul. I am, in fact, a Machine. In fact I suspect that the entire Language movement was initiated by a beautifully demented Machine. Lets get back to the the glorification of The Machine. Futurists and Mechanicists of the world Unite! Four legs weak, two legs bad, no legs good. Yours, The Red Machine. ****** the only machine i long to be is an orange - or a perpetual motion machine powered by media inundation - let my great grandchildren define postmodernism - someone pour me a screwdriver __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:15:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Coffey, Michael (Cahners-NYC)" Subject: Re: zeroes by sondheim, ones by pound MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain IN A STATION OF THE METRO 0101010001101000011001010110000001100001011100000111000001100001011100100110 1001 0111010001101001011011110110111001100000011011110110011001100000011101000110 1000 0110010101110011011001010110000001100110011001110110001101100101011100110110 0000 0110100101101110011000000111010001101000011001010110000001100011011100100110 1111 0111011101100100001110110000110101110000011001010111010001100001011011000111 0011 0110000001101111011011100110000001100001011000000111011001100101011101000010 1100 0110000001100010011011000110000101100011011010110110000001100010011011110111 0101 011001110110100000101110 > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan Sondheim [SMTP:sondheim@PANIX.COM] > Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 3:22 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: > > == > > > > |=o==o.o=o||=oo==.==o||=oo=o.oo=||==o==.===||=oo=o.===||=oo==.==o| > |=ooo=.o==||==o==.===||=oooo.=o=||=ooo=.ooo||=oo==.o=o||=oo=o.==o| > |==o==.===||=o===.==o||=ooo=.o=o||=oo==.ooo||=oo==.o=o||=oo=o.oo=| > |==o==.===||=oooo.=o=||=ooo=.o=o||=ooo=.oo=||=oo=o.==o||=oo==.o=o| > |=oo=o.o==||==o=o.oo=||====o.=o=| > Man=hat=zwei=Augen=zuviel.= > > > Rilke.= > > > == ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:05:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: Announcements Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Next week at the Poetry Project: Monday, October 30th at 8 p.m. JOANNA FURHMAN AND PATTIE MCCARTHY Joanna Fuhrman=B9s first book, Freud in Brooklyn, was published by Hanging Loose Press this year. Her poems have appeared in Fence, 6500, and other journals. Pattie McCarthy divides her time between Brooklyn and Philadelphia. She is the author of Choragus and Octaves and co-edits, with Kevin Varrone, BeautifulSwimmer Press. Wednesday, November 1st at 8 pm JOHN ASHBERY AND BERNADETTE MAYER Widely regarded as the foremost contemporary poet writing in English, John Ashbery received the Pulitzer Prize in 1975 for his collection Self-Portrai= t in a Convex Mirror and has also been the recipient of awards from the Guggenheim and MacArthur Foundations. At the Poetry Project, he will be reading from his new book of poetry, Your Name Here (Farrar, Straus and Giroux). In addition to Your Name Here, Mr. Ashbery is the author of nineteen other books of poetry, a volume of art criticism, a collection of plays, and a novel, A Nest of Ninnies (1969), which he co-wrote with James Schuyler. Following his reading, he will be signing copies of Your Name Here. Poet, editor, publisher, and teacher Bernadette Mayer is the author o= f fifteen books, including The Golden Book of Words (1978), The Desires of Mothers to Please Others in Letters (1994), Proper Name and Other Stories, and her classic Midwinter Day, reissued by New Directions in 1999. Ashbery=B9= s poetry provided some of the early-career inspiration that led Ms. Mayer to experiment with poetry in all its forms, thereby producing one of the largest, most varied and scintillating oeuvres anywhere. "Bernadette Mayer is one of the most original writers of her generation. Her work is full of brilliant observation, humorous and sometimes astounding conclusions, and amazing juxtapositions." =8BMichael Lally, The Washington Post Friday, November 3rd at 8 pm EVERYBODY KNOWS EVERYTHING: A WRITING WORKSHOP TAUGHT BY BERNADETTE MAYER One of the most influential teachers of contemporary writing, Bernadette Mayer has taught innovative writing workshops at the New School, the Poetry Project, and Naropa University. (See additional info on Bernadette Mayer above). This special workshop has been made possible by a generous grant from the Jerome Foundation. Admission to this workshop is $7, $4 for students and seniors, and $3 for Poetry Project members. * * * If you are currently on our email list and would like to be on our regular mailing list (so you can receive a sample issue of The Poetry Project Newsletter for FREE), just reply to this email with your full name and address. Hope to hear from you soon!!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:26:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Kane Subject: BILL BERKSON on WriteNet Comments: To: writenet@twc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This month, Bill Berkson talks about his poem "Poem," ways to think about line-breaks, dealing with time in poetry, and more! To view the page, go to http://www.writenet.org/poetschat/poetschat_bberkson.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:35:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Heller Subject: East End Reading Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If anyone is in the neighborhood, I'll be reading from my memoir, Living Root (SUNY 2000), at Canio's Books on Main Street in Sag Harbor on November 4th at 6 PM. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:57:11 +1000 Reply-To: k.zervos@mailbox.gu.edu.au Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Komninos Zervos Organization: Griffith University Subject: Re: Young People Against Poetry In-Reply-To: <39F8120B.3C585ED8@concentric.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT trouble is these young people were protesting against the 'establishment' literary festival scene, which have been taken over by the publicity departments of major publishers. young and new poets were expressing a need for a platform a forum for their poetry. as for the environment and space, well isn't it for that reason we meet and speak in cyberspace, so that we don't take up physical space. i received a promotion and moved into a new, smaller office at work, but the computer that sits on the desk is much more powerful than the one i used to have. once you used to be judged by the physical space you occupied, but now you are judged on the size of your ram. komninos .> Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 04:14:19 -0700 > Reply-to: UB Poetics discussion group > From: Rachel Loden > Subject: Re: Young People Against Poetry > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > This brings back the giddy heyday of Ladies Against Women, which > seems poised to have a resurgence in the Shrub years. "Abolish the > environment. It takes up too much space, and is almost impossible to > keep clean." > > Rachel Loden > > John Tranter wrote: > > > > Who said young people these days don't care about poetry? > > > > From "The Australian" newspaper, Friday 20 October 2000: > > > > "A group calling itself Young People Against Poetry > > protested outside the Brisbane Writers Festival yesterday, > > declaring poetry frivolous and culturally divisive." > > > > Brisbane is a city in the northern Australian state of Queensland. > > > > - John Tranter, Jacket magazine > > -- > Rachel Loden > http://www.thepomegranate.com/loden/hotel.html > email: rloden@concentric.net komNinos zErvos cYberPoet lecTurer cyBerStudies SchOol of aRts griFfith uniVerSity GolD coaSt cAmpuS pmb 50 gold coast mail centre queensland 9726 tel +61 7 55 948872 http://student.uq.edu.au/~s271502 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 08:25:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik For those of you who don't keep up with the very latest, I pass along this wonderful piece from www.bettybowers.com. George W. Bush Responds to Abortion Rumors "Abortion is immoral. And it was pretty damned expensive, too!" DETROIT, MI (AP). George W. Bush appeared last night at a potluck supper held by "Right to Life" in an elegant suburb of Detroit, Michigan. During the dinner he was asked by Mrs. Wallace Summerstock to respond to reports being circulated in liberal circles (but carefully avoided by America's heretofore "liberal press") that Mr. Bush had impregnated an underage girl and paid for her to have an abortion in Houston in 1970. Mr. Bush, appearing somewhat surprised by the hostess' query, responded: "Well, I'm a governor. That's what governors do. We govern. We make decisions." When further pressed for an explanation about whether the abortion had actually occurred, Mr. Bush laughed a bit and said: "Now, I'm not going to get into responding to rumors like this. But I will say that I have not paid for any underage girls to have abortions in 40 years. No, of course, I meant 30 years. Well, let's make that 31 years just to be on the safe side. And I have not done any of that cocaine stuff in 24 years and four months and three days. And I have not been AWOL from the Air Force in going on 28 years now. And I haven't cheated on my lovely wife Laura in -- well, let's just say since before Bill Clinton cheated on his. And, I'm proud to say, it's been quite a while since I danced on top of a bar naked drinking tequila and shaking my ass and dick!" Reports of Mr. Bush paying for an underage girl to have an abortion can be traced back to Larry Flynt, who says he has four affidavits to support the shameful allegation. Mr. Flynt is a dreadful smut peddler who will say anything even if it is true to besmirch those who stand up for traditional family values and the rights of the unborn. In the past, Mr. Flynt has repeated horrible stories about Bob Livingstone, Newt Gingrich, Helen Chenoweth, Dan Burton, and Henry Hyde having affairs and Bob Barr paying for an abortion all of which, while absolutely true, would have been left unspoken by anyone from a good family. Mrs. Bowers said to her dear friend Barbara Bush after hearing the news: "Bar, I know we all agreed that we hated Bill Clinton so much we put an idiot I mean, anyone in the White House other than a Demon-crat, and I won't have a word said against your son, but I ask you! A child molester?" After reassuring Betty that the girl looked "almost legal," Mrs. Bush further assuaged concern by pointing out: "Yes, George made his underage lover kill their baby, but you have to understand, he was out of his mind on cocaine at the time. There is a really good chance that he would never make a fifteen year old do that now." Bush spokesman Ari Fleischer responded by saying "Governor Bush has not changed his position on abortion. He is no hypocrite. It was illegal when he had it done and he wants it to be illegal for everyone else, too. Fair is fair." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:38:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: LANGUAGE/POETRY/ PERFORMANCE (UK) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The Centre for Contemporary Arts, De Montfort University, announces an historic gathering of the international avant-garde: LANGUAGE/POETRY/ PERFORMANCE Friday 8 December - Saturday 9 December 2000 VINCENT BARRAS (SWITZERLAND) CAROLINE BERGVALL (UK) CHARLES BERNSTEIN (USA) BOB COBBING (UK) HENRI CHOPIN (FRANCE) ANDREW MACLENNAN (AUSTRALIA) STEVE McCAFFERY (CANADA) KAREN MAC CORMACK (CANADA) ENZO MINARELLI (ITALY) MAGGIE O’SULLIVAN (UK) EMMETT WILLIAMS (USA) LANGUAGE/POETRY/PERFORMANCE Friday 8 and Saturday 9 December 2000 LANGUAGE/ POETRY/ PERFORMANCE - a two day international conference examining how Language Poetry and the Sound Poetry, Fluxus and Multimedia Avant-Gardes have explored and continue to explore innovative poetic performance. LANGUAGE/ POETRY/ PERFORMANCE presents exclusive UK readings and papers by Language Poets CHARLES BERNSTEIN (NY) & STEVE MCCAFFERY (Toronto) and by legendary transatlantic avant-garde innovators, Fluxus poet EMMETT WILLIAMS (Berlin) and Sound Poets BOB COBBING (London) & HENRI CHOPIN (Paris), along with younger poets, editors, radio producers, festival directors and researchers including: VINCENT BARRAS (Geneva) CAROLINE BERGVALL (Dartington), KAREN MAC CORMACK (Toronto), ANDREW MACLENNAN (Sydney), ENZO MINARELLI (Bologna), MAGGIE O’SULLIVAN (Yorks), REDELL OLSEN (London) & NAGY RASHWAN (Leicester). WHEN: 1.00PM - 10.00 PM Friday 8 DEC. and 9.30 -4.00PM, Saturday 9 DEC. 2000. WHERE: Lecture Theatre 2.13, The Clephan Building, De Montfort University, Corner of Oxford Street and Bonners Lane, Leicester. Registration required. ORGANIZERS: Nicholas Zurbrugg and Jane Dowson. For more information on registration, accommodations and sponsors: CONFERENCE WEBSITE: http://www.cta.dmu.ac.uk/CCA/ (not up yet, but check back in a few days) BOOKINGS/INQUIRIES/PRESS: Nicholas Zurbrugg, Humanities, De Montfort University, The Gateway, Leicester, LE1 9BH PHONE: 0116 257 7393 FAX: N.Zurbrugg: 0116 257 7199 e-mail: zurbrugg@dmu.ac.uk. PROVISIONAL CONFERENCE PROGRAMME FRIDAY 8 DECEMBER 1.00-1.15: OPENING 1.15-2.15 PANEL: Steve McCaffery (CANADA) & Charles Bernstein (USA) Chair: Caroline Bergvall (UK) 2.15-3-15: PANEL: Bob Cobbing (UK) & Vincent Barras (SWITZERLAND) Chair: Nicholas Zurbrugg (UK) 3.15-3..30 TEA/COFFEE 3.30-4.30 PANEL: Emmett Williams (USA) & Henri Chopin (FRANCE) Chair: Vincent Barras (SWITZERLAND) 4.30-5.30: PANEL: Caroline Bergvall (UK) & Karen Mac Cormack (CANADA) Chair: Jane Dowson (UK) 5.30-6.00: EXHIBITION OPENING/DRINKS: Work by Charles Bernstein, Henri Chopin , Bob Cobbing, Steve Mc Caffery, Enzo Minarelli and Emmett Williams. 6.00-7.00 CONFERENCE DINNER 7.30-10.00 READINGS/PERFORMANCES SATURDAY 9th DECEMBER 9.30 10.45 RECENT RESEARCH PANEL: Redell Olsen (UK), Nagy Rashwan (UK) & TBA Chair: Steve McCaffery (CANADA) 10.45-11.00 TEA/COFFEEE 11.00-12.15 EDITING/PUBLISHING/PRODUCING PANEL: Andrew MacLennan (AUSTRALIA) Enzo Minarelli (ITALY) & Maggie O’Sullivan (UK) Chair: Emmett Williams (USA) 12.15-1.00 DISCUSSION: POETS AND AUDIENCE Chair: Charles Bernstein (USA) 1.00-2.00 LUNCH a) READINGS/PERFORMANCES ______________ SPONSORS: The English Department, The Faculty Of Humanities And Social Sciences, De Montfort University; Cultural Development, De Montfort University; The American Embassy, London; The Canadian High Commission, London; The French Embassy, London; The German Embassy, London; The Francesco Conz Foundation, Verona; The Grand Hotel, Leicester; Watson’S Restaurant, Leicester. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:59:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brandon Stosuy Subject: noggintreelinedhighway@bigorbit In-Reply-To: <200010271839.e9RIduH24416@nico.bway.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit post-steel bar noise fest at big orbit gallery. films, violins, drum tracks, live video feeds, drone, misrepresentation. doors open at 9pm. films loop all night. bands begin later. detailed description of the evening can be found in artvoice and buffalo beat. please note: i am not in a neo-fluxus performance project as both papers would like you to believe. get off it! treelinedhighway hasn't spoken to henry flynt in at least twelve years. -brandon ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 15:44:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: body memoirs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Since you've all been so helpful with teaching ideas, here's another class I'm planning that I'd welcome suggestions for. The course is a grad level creative nonfiction workshop. Previous creative nonfiction workshops have been taught with a thematic focus, so following that lead, I've decided to focus on writing about the body. I'll give some writing exercises focused around body stuff, which are optional to people who'd prefer to work on ongoing projects. I also want to do some body-centered reading. Ideas I have are David Wojnarowicz, Frantz Fanon, and the anorexia/bulimia memoir Wasted. Actually, many things come to mind, but I'd welcome suggestions. I'd like to look at a range of writings about the body: the body in pleasure, the body in pain, the ailing body, the invaded body, etc. Since this is creative nonfiction, the reading examples need to be first person-y autobiographical-ish. Formal innovation won't be stressed, but won't be ignored either. I'm particularly interested in maintaining a cultural and racial range. Any ideas? Thanks. Dodie ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 01:26:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: dead in the w. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII i'm dead in the water because i'm drunk and dead and drugged and dead and poverty dead and you can see where this is going, without money i can't work, found out today i'm thirteen hundred dollars less the big four thousand or so that i thought i had because of mixups and meanwhile my equipment's aging and people are sending me urls with up to 9 megs of download and i can't see can't read can't hear can't feel a fucking thing, this stuff is for the bloody rich, and foofwa brought over a cdrom of recent work and i couldn't even open the thing and tweaked and tweaked my aging equipment and it wouldn't go right, not a bit of it, kept connecting and then saying not enough memory and i don't even know if ram or rom but it feels like rem, and i have these fucking fears late at night, now creeping and taking over the day, i'll be left behind, no one will fucking bloody care, there's no juice left in the machine, my hands are cut off, i can't fucking write any more or that's all i can do, flash costs a fucking close to $400, my linux box is a big 100 mhz and almost collapsed at that, linux won't load on the rest of the stuff, i want to breathe life into these damn machines, i want to keep them running, i want the fucking world giving me bandwidth, i want t3 t1 asdl dsl whatever, i can't hold your attention, i'm spoiled beyond belief, my work's idiotic, about as old-fashioned as you can get and still read the fucking stuff, if i drink myself to death i'll be real famous, wait and see, "i knew him when," "he was always troubled," "he was too pushy," "he was too neurotic," "he was a fucking asshole, should have died a long time ago, can't write a fucking word that makes sense, could- wait till he died, spammed the fucking list with his idiotic nonsense," but but but but i'm still here, can't fucking see a thing - Alan "you want errors? i'll give you errors" == ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 01:28:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Annotations to a papppper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII --- Annotations to a papppper The messiness of hieroglyphic, ideogram, alphabet - as soon as signs are constructed, the space between them becomes the focus of acceptable trans- formations. Reference to Tran Duc Thao and gesture, Lakoff and embodied gesture - Gregory Samson, however, talking about the ideogrammatic aspect of human writing - isn't there too much emphasis here on anti-pictorial- ism? especially since this leaves out a great deal of Japanese/Chinese thought for example - One might relate this to a certain notion of the machinic? One might also inspect the _architecture_ of polytheisms, mono- theisms - what sorts of disembodied intonations were established, say, at Karnak? It may be an _aural_ history at work here, more than anything else... Why would it be impossible to read pictographic texts? Isn't this a misreading of how the pictographic actually operates? Throughout this I keep going back to Einstein's remarks to Hadamard on the moving of blurred shapes, almost as if formal mathematization were an afterthought... You might want to read my essay on Kyoko Date on the cdrom - I believe it's called kyoko.txt and is in the /cdrom/books directory. She was created using motion capture; the essay has been twice printed. This reminds me of the work of Birdwhistell (sp?), labanotation, kinesics, etc. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 22:54:46 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: The Fat Man by Richard Taylor. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Fat Man The slightest ledger of the still shadow is dominated by the imagined = figure, whose face we never see, etching graphic = destructions - whose green gentlenesss is a new united states - but, = quietly by tip toe they reach, by dream delusion, the central = isn'tness. Yet the Creature in the wicker chair and the old dead = rocker perform miracles. The hands crawl like scorpions. Nothing of this = is know or remembered, but the ball of brightnesss, claiming centre = ground,is learning it all again.The music at least is triangular. Richard Taylor. =20 Some thoughts:This has no reference whatsoever to Fat Man, which was the = name of either the first or second or the first atomic bomb dropped. I = discovered that later. The poem doesnt refer to anything per se but I = think I was reading Robbet-Grillet's "Jealousy" which work (tedious as = it is to read) I still find paradoxically "haunting"."Isntness" is meant = to be in italics and I justify the poem, but cant do that on an email. = Not sure why (I mean why I like using the justify facility). Just that = the "justification" facility fascinates me.(Just that the?) What does = anyone think? I dont know why I put "united states" inthere. (Probably = trying to be clever) and I dont know why I put it in small letters. You = might say, here's a bloke who doesnt know why or what he's doing and = you'd be partly right! Also I decided in this "version" to start = creature with a caital c. Capittalising like that i do some times right = thru a poem. Eg "ball of brightness" nearly became a "thing". Not sure = why I want to do that.I took out three "surely's" after "dominated" and = between "reach" and "by dream delusion" before "perform". Also the last = line was "The music is at least triangular". I cant see which way is = better. Or is the idea of the "perfect poem" a false one? Could there be = an infinite number of equally valid The Fat Man's ?!?? Let's do some = poeticating!.Thanks. Best wishes to all. Richard. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 19:09:55 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mary phillips Subject: She skin is luminous Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed She skin is luminous, the physical singular supremacy outside upon his in the window/biblical events bearing eyes the physical eyes the physical Pooh, who didn't, didn't/say "Oh!"/ christian eyes the physical "Oh!" then Piglet/see what he thought her face what world they lost and said,"..in the inside.."/ her room/he seemd to in the middle whose skin [room] he thought to call upon his, and Pooh, who physical world [supremacy]he detached from/ singular supremacy from../ supremacy from../luminous the physical/ singular the physical eyes his and Pooh/room he said,"In the inside the window." biblical/ She skin is luminous, the physical/singular the physical eyes/he said, "..in the inside, the window." from a.a. milne/judy grahn/helen ellerbe thank you lee worden _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 10:12:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: Buffalo Fence/Realpoetik In-Reply-To: <200010280411.AAA28862@halo.angel.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi: I just want to point out, though I assume it's so obvious that no one even felt the need for a correction, that Fence is not associated in any way, formal or otherwise, with the SUNY Buffalo creative writing program or its faculty. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 11:42:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cassandra Laity Subject: CFP: "Gender and WWI" Comments: cc: modstudies-l@lists.psu.edu, tse@lists.missouri.edu, modernism@u.washington.edu, modbrits@listserv.kent.edu, modernism@lists.village.virginia.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Listmembers, Essays are sought for an upcoming SPECIAL ISSUE of _MODERNISM/MODERNITY_, co-edited by Robert von Hallberg and Cassandra Laity, on the topic: GENDER AND WORLD WAR I Please send submissions (25-30 pp.) to EITHER editor by APRIL 1, 2001. Robert von Hallberg Cassandra Laity _Modernism/Modernity_ _Modernism/Modernity_ Department of Germanic Studies Department of English University of Chicago Drew University 1050 E. 59th St. 36 Madison Avenue Chicago, IL 60637 Madison, NJ 07940 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 16:21:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis Warsh Subject: Bill Kushner Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Now available from UNITED ARTISTS BOOKS THAT APRIL by Bill Kushner 89 pages ISBN 0-935332-1-1 Cover by Donna Cartelli $10.00 THAT APRIL is a spectacular book. Bill Kushner writes poems made out of fluttering wings. His poet walks the street reading teeshirts, stays home & remembers "that there was an old man here before me." He makes tea and toasts his own splendiforous aging. These are such warm, horny, homey, lovely human poems. His dying father crying "Hold me!" and a much much younger man (Kushner's then lover) slip in and out of this collection of lyrics. The world is a luminous empty human body changing hands or souls. Reading this I don't feel alone, then I do. Eileen Myles In one of these wonderful notebook poems, Bill Kushner refers to himself as a "humble gay visionary poet." He is exactly that, and much more: a true poet of the fluid moment, of the ache of desire, of rain-slick New York streets. A post-Stonewall Whitman, Kushner surrenders himself to "the throes of a passion there is no cure for"; embraces, in his fleeting sky blue memos, "what can never be found." His (and out) reward: "exquisite true sadness." The highest price. David Trinidad Kushner's sharp, high-pressure rhythms, syntax, and music risk everything to turn "our absurd life" toward the ecstasies we're promised and seldom get. Violent streets, his father's death, and AIDS are seen with a passion that stops the spiral down and leaves brilliant poetry in its wake. Pure alchemy. Ed Foster Bill Kushner is the author of NIGHT FISHING (1980), HEAD (1986), LOVE UNCUT(1990) and HE DREAMS OF RIVERS (2000). His work has been anthologized in UPLATE(4 Walls 8 Windows 1987), IN OUR TIME, THE GAY AND LESBIAN ANTHOLOGY (StMartins 1989) and OUT OF THIS WORLD (Crown 1991) and has appeared innumerous magazines. He is recipient of New York Foundation of the Arts grant in poetry and lives in New York City. Also available from UNITED ARTISTS BOOKS Nothing for You by Ted Berrigan $12.00 Judyism by Jim Brodey $8.00 The California Papers by Steve Carey $8.00 Personal Effects by Charlotte Carter $7.00 The Fox by Jack Collom $8.00 Own Face by Clark Coolidge $15.00 Columbus Square Journal by William Corbett $7.00 Smoking in the Twilight Bar by Barbara Henning $7.00 Love Makes Thinking Dark by Barbara Henning $7.00 Liquid Affairs by Mitch Highfill $8.00 Poems for the Whole Family by Daniel Krakauer $7.00 Head by Bill Kushner $7.00 Love Uncut by BillKushner $7.00 One at a Time by Gary Lenhart $7.00 Eruditio ex Memoria by Berrnadette Mayer $8.00 Another Smashed Pinecone by Bernadette Mayer $10.00 The Golden Book of Words by Bernadette Mayer $15.00 Something to Hold Onto by Dennis Moritz $8.00 Songs for the Unborn Second Baby by Alice Notley $10.00 Fool Consciousness by Liam O'Gallagher $7.00 Cleaning Up New York by Bob Rosenthal $8.00 Political Conditions/Physical States by Tom Savage $8.00 In the Heart of the Empire by Harris Schiff $8.00 Along the Rails by Elio Schneeman $8.00 Continuity Girl by Chris Tysh $10.00 Echolalia by George Tysh $8.00 Selected Poems by Charlie Vermont $7.00 Blue Mosque by AnneWaldman $8.00 The Maharajah's Son by Lewis Warsh $10.00 Information from the Surface of Venus by Lewis Warsh $8.00 Clairvoyant Journal by Hannah Weiner $12.00 The Fast by Hannah Weiner $8.00 United Artists Books 112 Milton Street Brooklyn, N.Y. 11222 lwarsh@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 19:53:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Affective Fix MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Affective Fix The effect of truth is one of infinite morass, of guilt, recrimination, and regret. The condition of the effect is that of excessive depression, bewilderment, exhaustion. There is guilt in not being drugged, not being drunk, nonetheless carrying all the symptoms of inadequacy and addiction on one's back. There is an anomic response as well, a general decathect- ing across one's lived environment. It is impossible to struggle against this without leverage. A written howl of pain need not be worked into more than leaning forward over the keyboard, fingers bent to the quick. But what is the point of further dissemination, which produces only shame, exasperation, a loss which need not have been encountered, need not have been part of the en- counter whatsoever? The obverse of exhaustion and decathecting is the alterity of the face, the other, the whisper or murmur, which does not shake the world either ontologically or epistemologically; one remains grounded in the inertness of his or her subjective dimension. Shame in this regard is the fetishization of the real, which returns self to self. The encounter, then, occurs on the plane of the subject; without chall- enge, there is always already grounds for suit, the shame of finding one pinned to the fabric of the world. Within the aegis of virtual subjectiv- ity, there is the slightest escape among realms, using, mechanically, kill or delete; within the encounter (fingers trembling in poverty, abjection, humiliation), there is none such, except rage, bringing even more shame in its path. Strike, and one is stricken; be silent - one is silenced. "Thus I awake this Morrow among the missiles of Misfortune, fully unready to try my Hand once again at Bourse or social Commerce; I remain full vic- tim of Myself and what I have incurred. Let nothing remain of me for long; I parse myself Anonymous, in the last Refuge and Hope of the scoundrel." - ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 06:47:30 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baptiste Chirot Subject: [Y4M] November Happenings...... (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII for once wish i was in nyc--but if you are-- this from Y4M via leslie jones: ona move! peace everyone....... please help spread the word..... In support of the international campaign for clemency for American Indian Movement political prisoner Leonard Peltier, SHOFAM presents the NO THANX NO GIVING: INDIAN REVENGE to benefit the League of Indigenous Sovereign Nations of the Western Hemisphere (LISN).... Thursday, November 23, 2000 Knitting Factory 74 Leonard Street New York City 9 pm Featuring performances by... Mos Def Talib Kweli dead prez Ricanstruction Black Fire (Dineh/Navajo political punk rock from Big Mountain, AZ) Warrior's Blood (hip hop from Akwesasne Mohawk Territory) Warr Clubb (representing the Afro-Native alliance out of iladelph) Donation $15. Vegan buffet available for an additional donation. NO Turkeys allowed! RESIST this colonial government! For more information djjahsun@yahoo.com or 607-327-0734. NO THANX NO GIVING supports the Leonard Peltier Defense Committee's call to be in New York City on December 10, 2000 to DEMAND FREEDOM for Leonard Peltier. This is Leonard's LAST CHANCE for freedom under the Clinton administration. We need EVERYONE's support! Be in Union Square (nyc) at 12 noon on Human Rights Day (12/10), and join the walk to the UN to DEMAND JUSTICE! For more information on the clemency campaign, check out www.freepeltier.org. Call the White House Comment Line TODAY to demand CLEMENCY for AIM political prisoner Leonard Peltier! 202-456-1111 or 1-800-663-9568 take care & stay on the move........... FREE LEONARD PELTIER! FREE MUMIA! FREE THE MOVE 9! LONG LIVE JOHN AFRICA! LONG LIVE REVOLUTION! _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/4/_/30522/_/972800082/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> Stop the execution! New trial for Mumia! Youth & Students for Mumia http://www.mumia2000.org To subscribe or unsubscribe email: youth-4-mumia-owner@egroups.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 16:32:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: A Benefit for the No Spray Coalition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here's something I thought you might be interested in: A Benefit for the No Spray Coalition featuring SUSAN McKEOWN & CHANTING HOUSE, Matt Turk, Kali Z. Fasteau & Warren Smith, with Eric Leiblein, Kid Lucky, Caroline Cutroneo, and some VERY SPECIAL GUESTS: Eliot Katz, Merry Fortune, Wanda Phipps, Carol Sudhalter, Bryan and Marcy, and others. HOSTED BY WBAI Radio's ROBERT KNIGHT. Monday, Oct. 30, at Wetlands Preserve, 161 Hudson Street (just South of Canal St.), Doors open at 8 pm. $15 ------------------------------------------------------------------- The No Spray Coalition has been organizing New Yorkers against the indiscriminate spraying of dangerous pesticides since the Giuliani administration began bombarding New York City with toxic chemicals in September, 1999. As a result of the spraying, there are few lobsters left in the Long Island Sound or crabs in the Great South Bay, and fish kills by the thousands in Staten Island's lakes. Tens of thousands of birds are dead that had NOT tested positive for West Nile Virus -- what did they die from? Many bees are dead as well, with shuddering consequences for cross-pollination and the ecosystem. Trucks have now sprayed every block in the city with Scourge (Resmethrin) and Anvil (Sumithrin), factory-made pyrethroids mixed with suspected carcinogen Piperonyl Butoxide. Helicopters sprayed Fyfanon ULV (Malathion, 96.5 percent concentrated) and pyrethroids. None of these chemicals are ?safe,? contrary to the claims of Mayor Giuliani; they are endocrine disruptors with long-term consequences for the health and safety of the people of the New York region, let alone for the lobsters, honey bees, butterflies, frogs and the water supply. Hundreds of people, perhaps thousands, were sickened by the spraying last Autumn. New studies indicate a relationship of Pyrethroids to breast and prostate cancer, childhood leukemia, Multiple Sclerosis, and sperm count reduction. And Malathion is again up for review before the federal Environmental Protection Agency as a suspected human carcinogen. In 1999 & 2000, city, state & federal officials recklessly charged forward in this pesticide spraying effort without public input, environmental impact studies, or declaration of emergency (hard to believe: No emergency had been declared at any level of government concerning the West Nile Virus before spraying began, mostly because it is a rare day in hell that the Virus will cause anything more than a few sniffles, if that). The City officials ignored the hundreds of individuals who were sickened in the short term by the pesticide spray, whose asthma was severely exacerbated, who have allergies or whose health is already compromised and cannot withstand this toxic pesticide spraying. Meanwhile, the long-term consequences are unknown, and potentially devastating. And yet, this year once again helicopters swept down over children playing on ballfields in Staten Island and sprayed them not once, but two and three times, as desperate parents raced to grab them into their cars and off the fields. Similar incidents have been reported throughout the City. The entire operation has been coordinated out of Mayor Rudolph Giuliani's anti-terrorist bunker he recently installed on the 22nd floor of the World Trade Center. The Mayor has showed reckless disregard for the health and safety of New York residents and visitors, as well as for the natural environment. The No Spray Coalition works to educate, inform, and take action to prevent this misuse of pesticides which the Mayor says will continue next Spring, unless the No Spray Coalition and other activists are successful in preventing it. We've filed numerous Freedom of Information requests, and testified at dozens of official hearings. On July 20, 2000, the No Spray Coalition filed a lawsuit to stop the spraying. We've been gathering affidavits from those affected by the spraying, have established a "hotline" for information on all sorts of matters related to the spraying, and have done numerous press conferences and tv and radio interviews, leafletted parks and targeted areas, sponsored forums and teach-ins throughout the City and have basically pulled together quite a disparate group of activists, scientists, and spray "survivors". The lawsuit is still underway, and attorneys Joel Kupferman (NY Law and Environmental Justice Project) and Karl Coplan (PACE Environmental Law Clinic, directed by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.), are preparing additional papers to move the suit forward under the Clean Water Act. Dramatic video footage submitted to the Court documents the subcontractor, Clarke Industry, indiscriminately sprayed people on the street, vegetable stands, pregnant women, and children. The No Spray Coalition, which is a not-for-profit corporation registered with the State of NY, is in dire need of funds to pursue the lawsuit and continue its work -- consequently, this fundraiser. We are proud that Wetlands Preserve, with its long history of supporting environmental struggles, has agreed to host this benefit. Checks may be written to No Spray Coalition and mailed to PO Box 334, Peck Slip Station, NYC 10272. Fact sheets are available, as are flyers for distribution. The No-Spray hotline (updated daily) is: (718) 670-7110; website: www.nospray.org. No Spray email lists: mitchelcohen@mindspring.com and sprayno@egroups.com. The lawsuit to stop the indiscriminate spraying of toxic pesticides is being brought against Mayor Giuliani, et al., by the following plaintiffs: 1. No Spray Coalition (lead plaintiff) 2. Disabled in Action 3. Save Organic Standards -- NY 4. National Coalition Against Misuse of Pesticides 5. Robert Lederman (artist) 6. Eva Yaa Asantewaa 7. Valerie Sheppard 8. Mitchel Cohen The No Spray Coalition: PO Box 334, Peck Slip Station, NYC 10272-0334 hotline: (718) 670-7110, www.nospray.org, is made up of the following Board of Directors: Mitchel Cohen*, Afrime Derti*, Valerie Sheppard*, Pete Dolack*, Jennifer Jager*, Robert Lederman, Eva Yaa Asantewaa, Maris Abelson, Curtis Cost (*Member of Executive Committee of Bd of Directors) The following organizations are represented on No Spray Coalition Board of Directors: Save Organic Standards-NY Wetlands Action Group International Preparedness Network Disabled in Action Greens/Green Party USA Manhattan Greens/GPNY Brooklyn Greens/GPNY Flushing Greens/GPNY Active Resistance to Malathion Madness Rosendale Greens/GPNY Orange County "Radical, Fanatical" Greens/GPNY Central Nassau Greens/GPNY East New York-Cypress Hills Greens/GPNY Roosevelt Island Greens/GPNY Staten Island Greens/GPNY Southern Brooklyn Greens/GPNY Dutchess County Greens/GPNY Green Party of New Jersey * GPNY is the Green Party of NY. NOTE: The Green Party of NY itself is NOT a member of the Board of the No Spray Coalition nor party to this lawsuit. Press Inquiries should be directed to Cathryn Swan at (212) 343-2209. To send in an affidavit pertaining to the spraying, or to join the No Spray Coalition, contact: mitchelcohen@mindspring.com, porpdolack@gis.net. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 12:40:58 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Devin Johnston Subject: Tom Raworth in Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TOM RAWORTH will be giving a talk/reading as part of the Chicago Humanities Festival: "!WEN...Looking Back Along the Edge: a Personal View of Poetry, Random, and the Alternative" with readings from his work. Sunday, November 5th, 1-2 pm. Peggy Notebaert Nature Museum North Canon Drive in Lincoln Park, Chicago $6 at the door (ask about a student discount). ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:03:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: megan minka lola camille roy Organization: Pacific Bell Internet Services Subject: excellent reading in s.f. MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Next Wednesday at New Langton Arts...two poets you won't want to miss...pass on the word... CALIFORNIA POETS READ NEW WORKS DANA TEEN LOMAX & YEDDA MORRISON Wednesday, November 1, 8 pm Tickets $6, $4 New Langton Arts, 1246 Folsom Street, SF Reservations and information 415 626 5416 San Francisco - New Langton Arts carries the theme of its current exhibition "C2C" (Consumer to Capitalist) to the theater when writer Dana Teen Lomax proclaims, "Value is socially determined and what's it worth to ya?" Reading from her manuscript "Currency" (2000), Lomax looks at money and sings such showstoppers as "Meritocracy," "Trust," "Denominations" and "e pluribus unum". Yedda Morrison reads from her manuscript "the Cherry Pickers" and from a book-length work-in-progress created with NY based visual artist Michelle Rollman temporarily titled, "My Life as a Body." DANA TEEN LOMAX is currently a Poet-In-Residence at the WJA/Prison Arts Project in Santa Cruz, CA. This year she was selected as San Francisco Feature Poet for March in City Search Local Howlers (citysearch.com). Her chapbook "Room" was published in 1999 by a+bend Press, San Francisco. Her poems have been published in "Instress", "Tripwire", "Outlet", "yefief", and "Transfer 76", among other periodicals. Lomax is the producer of LINK--Collaborative/Experimental Performance Project that was presented at the ODC Gallery in 1999 and received a Zellerbach Family Fund Grant. YEDDA MORRISON was born in San Francisco where she continues to write and paint. She is the founding editor and publisher of "Tripwire, a Journal of Experimental Poetics," which she co-produces with David Buuck. Her chapbook, "The Marriage of the Well Built Head," is in its second printing from Double Lucy Press, Berkeley. "Shed" is available from A + Bend Press, San Francisco. "Apostasy" is forthcoming from Melodeon Poetry Systems, New York. Morrison is a board member at Small Press Traffic. In the gallery, New Langton Arts presents C2C, a mall for the subversive product. As consumer relationships become redefined and repackaged by capitalist culture, as in B2B (Business to Business), this NFP (Not For Profit) art gallery presents C2C (Consumer to Capitalist) to reconsider those relationships. Using the high gloss techniques and insidious strategies of capitalism, these art workers create products that evoke skepticism in place of desire. C2C calls into question society¹s frenzied embrace of the new economy by employing methods of appropriation and insurgent practice. This reading is funded in part by Poets & Writers, Inc. through a grant it has received from The James Irvine Foundation. * * * The mission of New Langton Arts is to cultivate experimental and innovative contemporary artworks in visual and media arts, music, performance, literature, and interdisciplinary projects while encouraging broad public appreciation and access to the art of our times. New Langton Arts is funded in part by Michael Abbink, Altoids, Banana Republic, Stephen Buckingham, Lewis Butler, Sheanna Butler, The Creative Work Fund, Penny and James Coulter, Cultural Equity Grants Program of the San Francisco Arts Commission, Joshua Distler, Martha Dresher, Paul Dresher, eBay Great Collections, Simon Frankel, Charlotte and Maynard Franklin, Joseph Furlong III, Grants for the Arts/San Francisco Hotel Tax Fund, Ann Hatch, The William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, Horizons Foundation, Gretchen Hillenbrand, Edward Jew, Joe Boxer, The LEF Foundation, Michael Light, Jeanne Meyers, Meridee Moore and Kevin King, The National Endowment for the Arts Creation & Presentation Programs, Lenore and Richard Niles, Penny Perlmutter Fernandez, Poets & Writers, Inc. through a grant it has received from The James Irvine Foundation, Potrero Nuevo Fund, Millicent Powers, The Howard Rice Fund, Scott Setrakian, Robert Harshorn Shimshak, Susan Swig Watkins, Marcia Tanner and Winsor Soule, Kathryn Taylor and Tom Steyer, The Andy Warhol Foundation for the Visual Arts, Charles Weinberg Fund, Zellerbach Family Fund, the board of directors and members of New Langton Arts. - end - For photography and interviews contact Rachel Churner at 415 626 5416 or rachel@newlangtonarts.org. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 06:43:08 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mary phillips Subject: a moment of voices Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed [a] site which effects pleasure, nor is it destruction, speaks in languages of animals hooting pearly shells [here] perhaps, a means hands reach to touch a moment of voices seeing the island speaks evaluating the works of loss, the seam, the cut palm full in the sun turn away the edge of Violence how to rescue Bliss poised in trees feeding two edges the subversive with my body Culture thus recurs as our mouths move as hands push along a great shore sharing the seam, the cut, the deflation surrender it's destruction what pleasure from the ocean tells me that I love aided by Barthes' The Pleasure of the Text _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 04:45:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Loden Subject: His Life: A Poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It seems that Bowering's been holding out on us. A link at Poetry Daily led me to the _Edmonton Journal_ and the news that "George Bowering of Vancouver is up for his third Governor General's Award for his poetic memoir _His Life: A Poem_." I first tried to find this book when Ron Silliman raved about it here, calling it "a real find! Poems written based on diary notes from the solstices and equinoxes (thus four per year) from '58 to '88. In addition to the absolute loveliness of the writing itself, you can get a real feel for a world that is just ever so slightly distanced from your own . . . . It feels like a great gift to read." SPD doesn't carry it but I ordered a copy last week at Chapters (a Canadian booksite: http://www.chapters.ca/Books/) and evil Amazon seems to have it as well. Now all I want to know is, what in the name of Gilbert & Sullivan is a Governor General? -- Rachel Loden http://www.thepomegranate.com/loden/hotel.html email: rloden@concentric.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:01:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: 2nd event at Flying Saucer - reminder (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Please do come! It will be a wonderful event to be sure, and every easy to get to if you're in the area at all - Alan Second Multi-Literary Event at the Flying Saucer Cafe! Alan and Nada are pleased to announce the second event in a new reading/video series in Brooklyn at The Flying Saucer Cafe at 494 Atlantic Avenue, between Third Avenue and Nevins Friday, November 3, 8:00 p.m.: ****Brenda Iijima and Tom Zummer**** Brenda Iijima is the author of _Person(a)_ and _Epitome_ (Portable Press). Iijima is presently designing a community project to take place Saturday, November 18th from 10:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m. in Prospect Heights. A self-guided tour visits ten stoops, each exhibiting a poem from her series titled _STEP_. Thomas Zummer is "...one of the most protean and perplexingly multi- tasking artists currently at work in America...", according to Adrian Dannatt in The Art Newspaper., "...a underground legend" in certain corners of the New York art and literary arena. Zummer will read from old and new, published and unpublished texts. Included will be excerpts from "What the Hell is That?," "The Computer as a Blunt Instrument," "Dispar- ity of Scale in Cinematic Taxa," and "Road Movie." There will also be a projected video piece in conjunction with the reading. How to get there: Take the 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or D or Q to the Atlantic Subway stop and walk underground to the Pacific Street exit (at the N or R or M Pacific Street Stop) or take the B or N or R or M - in any case, go out the Pacific Street Exit (right exit), take a right - at the end of the block you will be on Atlantic Ave. Take a left on Atlantic, and about two and a half blocks down, between Third and Nevins, you will find the Flying Saucer Cafe. $3 donation. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 11:26:53 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: IxnayPress@AOL.COM Subject: ixnay press release party MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Won't you please help us to celebrate the launch of ixnay number five and belatedly trumpet the arrival of Kevin Varrone's chapbook "g-point almanac"? Join ixnay press, in conjunction w/ the Highwire Reading Series @ La Tazza, for a reading featuring: Kevin Varrone Jena Osman & Frank Sherlock Saturday, Nov 4, 7:00pm La Tazza, 108 Chestnut Street, Philadelphia (Old City, between Front & 2nd Streets) (Look for a post regarding ordering info for ixnay five w/in the next week.) Hope to see you there! Chris & Jenn McCreary ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 13:49:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik Travis Ray Cole Travis Ray Cole writes/sings songs/poems and plays the guitar. He can be reached at ratacidtravis@writeme.com. "Yellow Cadillac" 1 hes got so much money he dont even know what kind of cadilliac he drives 2 gots a cadilliac and cant even drive it..... "Medical Adhesives" As the doctor scratched and scratched the loser tickets,I thought to myself "It's tough being a doctor these days" "EXCUSE ME......" Is it o.k. if exxon dumps oil here for the next ten years?" Request for documents denied Planned oil spills to burn or not to burn pounding storms help cleanse oil spill boosts economy. "Things Jilla thinks when she Urinates" We may have slept with Jack Ginsberg before he was nobody before he was nobody can the hearing impaired have voices in thier heads? mine have a narrator It is so sweet my new stalker is writing to me under ten different names sending me pages and pages of love poetry which I delete unread and tell her it was very good. mirroring the mirror of film Grandma and Mom always buy me the ugliest prostitutes Your not Steven Spielberg Mark Twain the new Kauraocs less vauge {more accessible} and surreal like we like it we don't need your guilt pain we dont need your guilt pain bieng published dictionary? Does that include making hundreds of copies and littering I mean satuaerating the intersection of milwakee and damien? I won a small garlic press,that means what? I won a small garlic press. "The Ballad of Bob and Emmy" While her plumbing was up to code it was the code of that country that carries buckets of water on their heads. that would have to be enough. they would make it. although the times were not that of Bonnie and clyde He bought my canoe.then smashed his guitar on his keyboard. Whenever the bird got out it would shit all over the paintings grandma passed around claiming the art teacher only helped her create. hoping to keep the used water bed with fungus growing inside pretending that ele phants dont throw their own shit on sunny afternoons at the zoo. she liked chicken but I took her to white castle in the blizzard on the way home before passing the oasis she was good but who isnt? in the drive thru,the man gave her a free drink for waiting and then she lied some more.When I got home I made sure the door was locked so they would'nt steal the canned goods. Travus Ray Cole ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:30:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik Travis Ray Cole Travis Ray Cole writes songs, poems and plays the guitar. He can be reached at ratacidtravis@writeme.com. "Yellow Cadillac" 1 hes got so much money he dont even know what kind of cadilliac he drives 2 gots a cadilliac and cant even drive it..... "Medical Adhesives" As the doctor scratched and scratched the loser tickets,I thought to myself "It's tough being a doctor these days" "EXCUSE ME......" Is it o.k. if exxon dumps oil here for the next ten years?" Request for documents denied Planned oil spills to burn or not to burn pounding storms help cleanse oil spill boosts economy. "Things Jilla thinks when she Urinates" We may have slept with Jack Ginsberg before he was nobody before he was nobody can the hearing impaired have voices in thier heads? mine have a narrator It is so sweet my new stalker is writing to me under ten different names sending me pages and pages of love poetry which I delete unread and tell her it was very good. mirroring the mirror of film Grandma and Mom always buy me the ugliest prostitutes Your not Steven Spielberg Mark Twain the new Kauraocs less vauge {more accessible} and surreal like we like it we don't need your guilt pain we dont need your guilt pain bieng published dictionary? Does that include making hundreds of copies and littering I mean satuaerating the intersection of milwakee and damien? I won a small garlic press,that means what? I won a small garlic press. "The Ballad of Bob and Emmy" While her plumbing was up to code it was the code of that country that carries buckets of water on their heads. that would have to be enough. they would make it. although the times were not that of Bonnie and clyde He bought my canoe.then smashed his guitar on his keyboard. Whenever the bird got out it would shit all over the paintings grandma passed around claiming the art teacher only helped her create. hoping to keep the used water bed with fungus growing inside pretending that ele phants dont throw their own shit on sunny afternoons at the zoo. she liked chicken but I took her to white castle in the blizzard on the way home before passing the oasis she was good but who isnt? in the drive thru,the man gave her a free drink for waiting and then she lied some more.When I got home I made sure the door was locked so they would'nt steal the canned goods. Travus Ray Cole ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:01:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lourdes Vazquez Subject: NEED MUSICIAN MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am looking for a drummer or percussionist for an hour poetry reading (twice). If anyone can help me please contact me at: 718-789-6945 (at nights) or through my email: lvazquez@rci.rutgers.edu Many thanks, Lourdes Vazquez ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 16:53:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Debra Laser Subject: Re: Announcements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you are currently on our email list and would like to be on our regular mailing list (so you can receive a sample issue of The Poetry Project Newsletter for FREE), just reply to this email with your full name and address. Hope to hear from you soon!!! Debra Laser 14202 Manorvale Rd. Rockville, MD 20853 thank you!