========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 11:10:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brandon Stosuy Subject: Re: Poets in Film In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit has anyone mentioned henry fool? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 11:24:09 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: pro-Laureate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/29/2001 10:47:41 AM, dkane@PANIX.COM writes: << Yes - Kenneth Koch, for god's sake -- all the work he's done promoting poetry to a larger populace, while maintaining fidelity to an experimental, innovative, hilarious poetics. RON PADGETT -- luminary of Teachers & Writers Collaborative for decades -- spreading poetry beyond boundaries of generation, race, time, etc... --daniel >> Definitely Ron Padgett. Met him last year at a reading. We had lunch together and then took the LIRR back to Manhattan. Great conversationalist. A master of words in every respect. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 08:39:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Kuszai" Subject: Re: ANTI-LAUEREATE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed rodefer _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 08:52:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cassie Lewis Subject: Re: Poets in Film Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kevin Killian wrote: | Mitchell is always | great. Like Kylie Minogue, Russell Crowe, Guy Pearce she began her | career on the Australian soap "Neighbours." Did Crowe start in "Neighbours"? I remember him from wonderful films like "The Sum of Us", "Romper Stomper" and "Proof", all landmarks of Australian cinema... Radha Mitchell is great, I agree. I should catch up on what films she's doing now. Cheers, Cassie Lewis _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 11:57:10 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Poets in Film MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kevin, You are right. The movie was called "High Art," and I am glad that you have liked it too for essentially same qualities. Patricia clarkson is my favorite part too. Interesting also the link to Fassbinder. Another point about the movie. I think the photographs taken of the interviewer are in black and white (am I correct) as opposed the other photos which have the intense, drugged out, deep hued, interior feel to them. If so, In a message dated 6/29/01 9:50:02 AM, kevinkillian@EARTHLINK.NET writes: >Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > >"The movie, called "Art" I think, about a lesbian photographer (forgot >her name). In this movie also a style representing the photographer's life >and loves is intercut with her color photography which has a more intense >version of the color palette of the rest of the film. Once again, the movie >embodies a stylistic dialectic, one reflecting, intensifying, commenting >on >the other. Also, in the movie, an affair between her and a magazine >interviewer ends up her taking the interviewer's nude photos to be published >in the magazine -a subtle exploring of the relation between creation and >mutual exploitation." > >I think this film was called "High Art." I remember when it came out >a few years ago, people were commenting on how the director or writer >Lisa Chodolenko seemed to have taken all of Nan Goldin's seediest >traits and told Ally Sheedy to play her like a tragic heroine. I >would have liked to be a fly on the wall when Goldin met Chodolenko! >"High Art" is kind of an East Village "All About Eve" as the young >straight woman attempts to outdo her wounded mentor in both art and >sexuality. The younger woman if I recall was played by the >Australian actress Radha Mitchell who later became an action heroine >in one of my other favorite pictures PITCH BLACK! Mitchell is always >great. Like Kylie Minogue, Russell Crowe, Guy Pearce she began her >career on the Australian soap "Neighbours." > >"High Art" by the way also features in a small part a really great >NY writer, Laurie Weeks, who appears during a party sequence and >stares into the camera looking drugged out and decadent. And nobody >who sees it ever forgets Patricia Clarkson, who plays the Nan Goldin >character's best pal, a washed-up German actress and chanteuse who >once worked for Fassbinder et cetera. Clarkson does a really funny >job she is like Patsy on Ab Fab channelling Nico. > >Ok, enough background from me! Keep up this enjoyable thread of >"Poets in Film." have we all seen Charles Bernstein yet in the Van >Sant film? -- Kevin K. > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:00:59 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick herron Subject: Re: ANTI-LAUEREATE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now, if you had said SALLY STRUTHERS instead of Suzanne Sommers I'd flex my druthers and insist that no others descend to that hollowed place for the poet who lacks commercial face except SALLY STRUTHERS!!! Her smile will be forever in our hearts!(TM) I mean, when you think of Robert Pinsky, do you ask yourself, "will his smile be forever in our hearts?" No! But Sally is the complete opposite. I mean, that's the first thing we ask when we think of Sally! She's doing good work in Africa these days, saving the children (she had to travel far to find people more in need than her). She played a character who dated a guy named meathead who in turn argued with a bigot for 13 years and that bigot was her character's father, and the man who played the bigot recently died after helping fight the crime n punishment war against drugs. She even did a spin-off. Now that's poetry worthy of dishonor. Or unpoetry worthy of honor. Take your pick. now i know there are some people around here who know some fancy words. but has anyone given any thought what "anti-laureate" must mean? whoever earns this distinction will be worthy of great dishonor, and so instead of having laurel placed on the anti-laureate's head i think hurling feces in the bearer's general direction might be appropriate. It's kind of a horrible ceremony, but hey, pageantry isn't achieved so easily! Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of K.Silem Mohammad > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 9:52 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: ANTI-LAUEREATE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA > > > >Nominees so far are: > > > >John M. Bennett > > > >Karl Kempton > > > >Will Inman > > > >Alan Sondheim > > > >Ron Silliman > > > >Kathy Ernst > > > >Richard Kostelanetz > > > >Alice Notley > > > >and (my nominee) Pierre Joris > > > Hey, where's Ficus Strangulensis??? Doesn't my vote count? > > I'll withdraw the Suzanne Sommers nomination; I'm not an unreasonable > man.... > > Kasey > > > > > > ......................................... > > || K. Silem Mohammad > > || Literature Department > > || University of California Santa Cruz > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:03:26 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Poets in Film MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My post got sent before it was finished. Here is the complete version: Kevin, You are right. The movie was called "High Art," and I am glad that you have liked it too for essentially same qualities. Patricia clarkson is my favorite part too. Interesting also the link to Fassbinder. Another point about the movie. I think the photographs taken of the interviewer are in black and white (am I correct) as opposed the other photos which have the intense, drugged out, deep hued, interior feel to them. If so, the film is also making a distinction between art as a public object (black and white), mutually exploitable by artist and public, and art as a private, "useless" activity (the color photographs of friends, of the interiors). Another film with poets in it: Andrei Codresku's "Road Scholar" (Andrei himself, Allen Ginzberg, Ferlinghetti, and i think others). Murat In a message dated 6/29/01 9:50:02 AM, kevinkillian@EARTHLINK.NET writes: >Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > >"The movie, called "Art" I think, about a lesbian photographer (forgot >her name). In this movie also a style representing the photographer's life >and loves is intercut with her color photography which has a more intense >version of the color palette of the rest of the film. Once again, the movie >embodies a stylistic dialectic, one reflecting, intensifying, commenting >on >the other. Also, in the movie, an affair between her and a magazine >interviewer ends up her taking the interviewer's nude photos to be published >in the magazine -a subtle exploring of the relation between creation and >mutual exploitation." > >I think this film was called "High Art." I remember when it came out >a few years ago, people were commenting on how the director or writer >Lisa Chodolenko seemed to have taken all of Nan Goldin's seediest >traits and told Ally Sheedy to play her like a tragic heroine. I >would have liked to be a fly on the wall when Goldin met Chodolenko! >"High Art" is kind of an East Village "All About Eve" as the young >straight woman attempts to outdo her wounded mentor in both art and >sexuality. The younger woman if I recall was played by the >Australian actress Radha Mitchell who later became an action heroine >in one of my other favorite pictures PITCH BLACK! Mitchell is always >great. Like Kylie Minogue, Russell Crowe, Guy Pearce she began her >career on the Australian soap "Neighbours." > >"High Art" by the way also features in a small part a really great >NY writer, Laurie Weeks, who appears during a party sequence and >stares into the camera looking drugged out and decadent. And nobody >who sees it ever forgets Patricia Clarkson, who plays the Nan Goldin >character's best pal, a washed-up German actress and chanteuse who >once worked for Fassbinder et cetera. Clarkson does a really funny >job she is like Patsy on Ab Fab channelling Nico. > >Ok, enough background from me! Keep up this enjoyable thread of >"Poets in Film." have we all seen Charles Bernstein yet in the Van >Sant film? -- Kevin K. > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:04:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: poets in film In-Reply-To: <120.db26e7.286b7630@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And there was, in the last decade or so, a film about a blind photographer. Since my mind's becoming more and more like a steel sieve, I've forgotten its title. Hal "If the brain were so simple we could understand it, we would be so simple we couldn't.'' --Lyall Watson Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvardjohnson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:04:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: ANTI-LAUEREATE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA In-Reply-To: <3B3B37E8.2714.191EEA@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I move that the nominations be closed. Hal Colourless green ideas sleep furiously. --Noam Chomsky Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvardjohnson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 13:40:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sylvester pollet Subject: Anti-Laureate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Robert: I've got no dispute with that list, except that it doesn't include Ted Enslin, so I'll nominate him. Sylvester >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:15:53 -0500 >From: Robert Archambeau >Subject: ANTI-LAUEREATE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA > >Okay, folks, I'm taking this Anti-Laureate idea global. > >In the tradition of the Russian Belyi prize for unrecognized literature, >the award will take the >form of one bottle of vodka, along with an announcement of the winner in >this summer's edition >of Samizdat (which features Michael Heller and Belgian Surrealism). > >Add to that the possible printing of a limited edition chapbook by the >winner from Samizdat Editions. > >Send your nominations to me at archambeau@lfc.edu until July 3, and I'll >annouce the winner >of the first Anti-Laureate competion to the list on July 4th. > >All poets are eligible (non-US poets too), except those with Iowa MFAs, >Pulitzer Prizes, or >strong personal ties to Helen Vendler. > >Nominees so far are: > > >John M. Bennett > >Karl Kempton > >Will Inman > >Alan Sondheim > >Ron Silliman > >Kathy Ernst > >Richard Kostelanetz > >Alice Notley > >and (my nominee) Pierre Joris > >(who has the added alure of being from Luxembourg, a country >grossly underrepresented among U.S. Poets Laureate). ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 13:53:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Anti-Laureate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Thanks to Robert Archambeau for initiating what looks like an interesting exercise in counter-representation. However, I think the anti-Iowa ground rule can be questioned on the following basis. I would think the "anti-Laureate" award should go to a poet who most undoes the system of representation on which such awards are based. Therefore, positive criteria (such as Alice Notley's being a "national treasure") would not be most to the point. What is being affirmed with such criteria is a kind of counternationality, an other America let's say, for which Alice is a quite representative poet. I'm all in favor of an "other America" as a condition of this award. But the "Iowa exclusion" criterion seems questionable. A poet might get a very focused view of precisely the system of representation that makes laureatehood politically dubious precisely at the Iowa Workshop, founded by that paragon of popular representability, Paul Engel. I think there are many poets who could compete for the prize of most undoing the system of representation on which the Poet Laureate is based. And it can be done in many ways. One poet who seems most consistently to have done so is in fact an Iowa graduate, my nominee: Robert Grenier. His entire work is about the undoing of the representativeness, if not the representability, of "the poet." I would like to see his work recognized for its unrepresentativeness. Barrett Watten ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 15:56:55 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Massey Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/29/2001 9:48:10 AM Central Daylight Time, gmcvay@PATRIOT.NET writes: > because Collins is alive and Kaufman is dead. > And Kaufman's still more alive than Collins. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:49:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: Change of Address -- Kenning Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Friends et al - Kenning & I have changed address: 383 Summer Street (lower), Buffalo NY 14213, USA. E-mail & website, of course, stay the same: www.durationpress.com/kenning While I'm at it, a reminder: The two most recent issues of Kenning, nos. 9-10, are still available. Collectively they feature new writing by Edwin Torres, Juliana Spahr, Anne Tardos, Amiri Baraka, Swako Nakayasu, Stephen Ratcliffe, Gregg Biglieri, Jean Donnelly, Liz Waldner, Oskar Pastior (trans. Rosmarie Waldrop), Roberto Piva (trans. Chris Daniels), Chris Pusateri, Camille Roy, Jackson Mac Low, Chris Chen, & many others. Pick up both via direct mail-order by sending $12.00 to Patrick F. Durgin c/o Kenning (address above). #10 is now available at Blue Books (SF) & Bridge Street Books (DC), so stop in if you can. The second in the Kenning summer chapbook series is due soon: OFTEN, a play by Barbara Guest & Kevin Killian. Small Press Distribution can handle your orders on that count so stop by www.spdbooks.org in August. In the meantime, you'll want to gear up by purchasing several copies of Guest's latest book, Symbiosis (Kelsey St.), and Killian's new Argento Series (Krupskaya). Summer gift ideas galore. Patrick -- -- ^ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 01:12:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: T Pelton Subject: Re: Laureate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wouldn't Amiri Baraka be cool. If he considered George Sr. to be a reefer -- "people get high on him" -- what is his son? A JD & Coke hit with a tab of acid? Ted Pelton ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 02:05:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: give me a second MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - a line beginning "he weren't" or "it weren't" effusive cloud, unknown relationship, negative connotations signed (up) into something obvious explanations and re-explanations of sexual obsessiveness diatribe against the corporate infiltration of network interstices - phone messages, icq, download screens, always asking for registration and "email updating" fury and assassinations of evil governments :: these are dream-clouds, half-thoughts - i think these through falling asleep, desperately trying to memorize phrases, trajectories; by the time morning comes along, it's all over, i've forgotten everything, i end up hating myself, the ideas are lost forever; i've tensed, i want to throw out everything, give up; i become hateful; i'm not the person i'm capable of being; the world seems as much nonsense as the phrases i've lost; whole books, volumes, theories lost at night; in day-dreaming; napping; all i end up giving back is the residue; what remains after everything else is lost; ruins of full speech; ruins of fuller speech texts which are always mournings for the remainder, remnant; identifica- tion with abandonment, depression, the inchoate retreating into sexuality; trancetext; theoretic; ghost and emanant it was at the tip of my tongue; it's almost completely; just a second, just a second; wait, i've almost got it; it'll come to me it never returns; it's lost in neural columns; it's always already incom- plete one is never present; full speech is never emanant hold on; just a second; wait, no that's not it; it's really bothering me; it's at the tip of my tongue; just a minute _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 10:56:03 -0500 Reply-To: thomas/swiss Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: thomas/swiss Subject: Poets and Autobiographies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" Friends, I'm trying to line up a list of the "best" autobiographies by poets -- = from, say, the 1920s onwards, but with special emphasis on those published = since the 1950s.=20 Can you help with some titles? And help, too, by saying briefly why you = are suggesting the book--what does it do well or poorly? Many thanks. --Thom Swiss ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 12:15:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: UbuEditor Subject: Charles Bernstein Live on WFMU 7/5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Join Kenny G this coming Thursday, July 5th at 4pm EST as he welcomes poet Charles Bernstein to his WFMU radio show. Charles Bernstein is Chair-Pro-Temp and Chief Operating Officer of the Hennie Youngman Institute for Avant-Garde Comedy and Stand-up Poetry. After a year long fight, he was recently removed as director of the Fund for Dysraphic Studies, of which he was the only member. Thats an hour of conceptual radio, sound poetry and dry heaves this Thursday, July 5th, 4pm on Kenny Gs Saturday Night Toe Jam(z). WFMU serves a variety of MP3 streams and various flavors of RealAudio: http://www.wfmu.org/audiostream.shtml For more information about WFMU -- the longest running freeform radio station in the U.S. -- check the website: http://wfmu.org Real Audio archives of the progam will be available July 9th: http://www.wfmu.org/archive.html -- Editor UbuWeb Visual, Concrete + Sound Poetry http://www.ubu.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 12:09:27 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Comments: To: Poetryetc , PoetryEspresso@topica.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Apologies to those who get this more than once Writers Forum yesterday published part two of _ON WORD_, a part work "anthology of contemporary poetry and method" edited by Bob Cobbing and Lawrence Upton This part publishes the Canadian poet Meredith Quartermain, the Uruguayan poet Clemente Padin, the Irish poet resident in USA Gilbert Adair and 2 British poets: Bill Griffiths and the late Alaric Sumner Each poet contributes poems and statements. (Sumner's statements have been extracted from the texts of some of his talks.) Quartermain and Padin contribute selections. Adair contributes the latest complete section of his ongoing _Jizz Rim_. (The bulk is available over several publications from Writers Forum; and the opening 11 pages of the section in progress, which follows directly what is published here, is an issue of my own _Signal Passed at Danger_) Griffiths wrote _The Mackerel_ for this publication Sumner's contribution is the first 10 pages of _LETTERS for dear AUGUSTINE_ (publication of the whole of which is still in preparation) and a black and white version of _Reification's Program_, a polychrome visually-oriented text he made for a 1995 Dartington College of Arts Conference Like part one, part two is 64pp ISBN for the whole 16 part anthology ISBN 1 84254 000 9 ISBN for this part ISBN 84254 002 5 Price each for parts one and two in UK £3.50 + postage Direct from New River project, 89a Petherton Road, London N5 2QT (send return postage if you are not sending full payment please) or from your bookseller. Those outside UK who do not have a sterling bank account have a problem of course: bank charges knock the cost up massively. Perhaps some kind bookseller will import it for you, especially if she / he can be offered a number of subscribers. Talk to them Part three is scheduled for late September 2001 --------------------------------------------------- http://pages.britishlibrary.net/lawrence.upton/ http://www.crosswinds.net/~subvoicivepoetry/ http://www.crosswinds.net/~writersforum/ --------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 08:16:29 -0400 Reply-To: raltemus@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Reed Altemus Subject: Re: Anti-laureate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Two other anti-laureates: Mark Sonnenfeld David Baptiste Chirot RA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 14:39:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael McColl Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I second the nomination of CA Conrad. ---------- >From: Joseph Massey >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination >Date: Wed, 27 Jun, 2001, 9:28 PM > > I nominate CA Conrad! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 15:48:07 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Muffy Bolding Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ah, this one's easy -- i hereby nominate that insolent poetic brigand,=20 jeffrey mcdaniel. (oh, yes -- and when deciding if he qualifies as "anti"=20 enough, please pay no mind to the fact that senor tomas lux has publicly =20 anointed his work. he certainly can't help it.) ;) *muffy bolding* Logic in the House of Sawed-Off Telescopes=20 I want to sniff the glue that holds families together.=20 I was a good boy once.=20 I listened with three ears.=20 When I didn=E2=80=99t get what I wanted, I never cried.=20 I banged my head over and over on the kitchen floor.=20 I sat on a man=E2=80=99s lap.=20 I took his words that tasted like candy.=20 I want to break something now.=20 I am the purple lips of a child throwing snowballs at a taxi.=20 There is an alligator in my closet.=20 If you make me mad, it will eat you.=20 I was a good boy once.=20 I had the most stars in the classroom.=20 My cheeks overflowed with rubies.=20 I want to break something now.=20 My bedroom is so dark I feel like an astronaut.=20 I wish someone would come in and kiss me.=20 I was a good boy once.=20 The sweet smelling woman used to say that she loved me.=20 The man with the lap used to read me stories,=20 swing me in his arms like a chandelier.=20 I want to break something now.=20 My heart beat like the meanest kid on the school bus.=20 My brain tightened like a fist.=20 I was a good boy once.=20 I didn=E2=80=99t steal that kid=E2=80=99s homework.=20 I left a clump of spirit in its place.=20 I want to break something now.=20 I can multiply big numbers faster than you can.=20 I can beat men who smoke cigars at chess.=20 I was a good boy once.=20 I brushed my teeth and looked in the mirror.=20 My mouth was a spectacular wound.=20 Now it only feels good when it bleeds.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 21:01:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Rathmann Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I nominate Mrs. Lefanu, and Mr. Barrett, and the Rev. Mr. Milman. This Keats fellow is just no good. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 00:00:19 -0400 Reply-To: dbuuck@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "dbuuck@mindspring.com" Subject: email change 2nd attempt Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" New email dbuuck@mindspring.com (was dbuuck@sirius.com) thanks David Buuck -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mail2Web - Check your email from the web at http://www.mail2web.com/ . ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:20:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Pusateri Subject: Bombay Gin #27 now available Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed BOMBAY GIN #27 NOW AVAILABLE On behalf of editors Veronica Corpuz and Michelle N. Pierce, I am pleased to announce the release of Bombay Gin #27, featuring new work by: Michael Friedman~Jack Collom~Rachel Blau DuPlessis~Bruce Andrews~Clark Coolidge~Michael Gizzi~Lisa Jarnot~Barbieo Barros-Gizzi~Jeff Derksen~Lisa Robertson~Laura Mullen~kari edwards~Stacy Doris~Cole Swensen~Anselm Berrigan~Anselm Hollo~Albert Flynn DeSilver~Chris Pusateri~Ange Mlinko~Derek Fenner~Ryan Gallagher~Rod Smith~Reed Bye~Miles Champion~Rodrigo Toscano~Kristin Prevallet~Bhanu Kapil Rider~Tannis Atkinson~Thalia Field~Rachel McKeen~Mark Terrill~Bill Scheffel~Anne Waldman~Keith Abbott~Laird Hunt~Brian Stefans~Tim Davis~Bob Doto~Melanie Neilson~Alan Gilbert~Kate Colby~Harryette Mullen~Juliana Spahr~Peter Gizzi~Andrew Schelling~Heather Akerberg~Mary Angeline~Mei-Mei Berssenbrugge~Stephen Ratcliffe~Norma Cole~Leslie Scalapino~Rosmarie Waldrop~Interview with Laird Hunt~Interview with Lisa Jarnot~In Memoriam: Ed Dorn (1929-1999) Douglas Oliver (1937-2000) Gregory Corso (1930-2001)~202 pages~ISBN 0-967-1334-1-6 Copies are $10 each and are available from: Small Press Distribution 1341 Seventh Street Berkeley CA 94710 www.spdbooks.org Department of Writing and Poetics Naropa University 2130 Arapahoe Ave Boulder, CO 80302 _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 10:47:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: my attacks on stupid presidents (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII i have it it's never really gone away it just came back to me it changes everything hold it here it is i knew if i waited long enough i could just picture it i had most of it right away i could just see it gorge bash lies eaten and rolled over by snomobile treads from thick moose-drivn belts cutting nto his eyes; george bish sez kill them slant-eye big-nosed greasy-haired oh he wnt to a country caled afrika then a new unknown country wher all children screamed fuk you we did not want to be born and starv, they slit his eyes with thin nives, they cut his tong out, they made him watch women just like they been tolled boiled him simmered it was amazing how long he screamed they removed him snt him to land of big wounded animls dying they shoved tusks into him then he went to land of big misils shoved up his anal hole an terring into him; oil cums from his mouth; he screems kill the drty colord people all over the countries of the world he is a terible kilr; no amont of punishmnt is too god for him; he loves krist with all his alcoholc vilent hart; he rips peple apart for krist he hates poor white peeple; they are like him; they are bad failurs; he givs them to oriental country and ordrs poor jews to kil them and they turn his eyes into pulp and shit on his face; he screems into arabs push thik needles into garge bosh eyes and throte so he can't do vilent kiling and damag; blacks tair open skin; whites pull out organs and slash them; reds cut open heart; blues stuff asshole without love and sharp boulders; yellows put glass into his eyhes; greays load the rifl; pinks pul the triger; browns slam barrel into repeated hed i wil kill you al seys gurge bish, yu do not desrv a man as wondrful as me, oh sory, as i, in this amerikan umpire it changes everything i can just picture it it makes the real go away i knew i'd get it right sooner or later i knew it'd come together i have it here it is -- my attacks on stupid presidents registering disgust in sparkling ways opposing by incantation collapsing violent and ignorant statements carrying his politics to their logical conclusion abbreviating his language to irrational particulation violating the very idea of his presidency returning his policies of evil to his flesh and blood transforming the body politic into the political body surrounding him with taunts and debris refusing him the satisfaction of etiquette and proper speech influencing others through his presence as dissected stain furiously disseminating abject critique spamming his corporate distribution mechanism destroying the anatomy of his spoken word turning his ruined demographics against him inverting his policies of ruthless extinctions writing through and within obscenity attacking engorged flesh and his political ancestry humiliating his stupidity and its terminal effects opposing his camaraderie with sparkling innuendo _ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 18:22:16 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Painting Without Numbers Comments: To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics , PoetryEspresso@topica.com, ImitaPo , Britpo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Announcing, sort of. After being nagged from various quarters, and even chided, I have reluctantly posted a hit and miss confection or collection of my own work, under the header's title. If you care to look at it do not take anything literally. I'm an unfortunately imaginative person. The 'it' can be found at: www.paintstuff.20m.com/default.htm or, if you don't like banner ads, at: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/default.htm the second one is a clumsy URL but it's probably nicer on the eyes. Best David Bircumshaw ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 16:03:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bertha Rogers Subject: JULY UPDATE, NEW YORK LITERARY CURATORS SITE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Dear Friends, Following is the July update for the New York State Literary Curators Web Site, http://www.nyslittree.org, brought to you by Bright Hill Press in partnership with the New York State Council on the Arts. EVENTS PAGE: We welcome the following reading series and organizations to the events page: in Albany, Peaceworks and Poetz in the Park; in Ithaca, the Feminist Women s Writing Workshops; in Brockport, the Brockport Writers Forum; in Huntington, the forthcoming Long Island Poetry Festival, forthcoming in September (check out Teenspeak's Poetry Festival). CIRCUIT WRITERS PAGE: Writers newly added are Barbara Adams, Nancy Agabian, Helen Barolini, George Drew, and Christina Starobin. If you=92re a writer with a published book of literary fiction, nonfiction, or poetry, and you wish to be listed as available for readings in New York, look at the Circuit Writers page (for New Yorkers) or Interstate Writers page (for out-of-staters), follow the format, and email us the information IN THE BODY OF THE EMAIL NOT AS AN ATTACHMENT, and we=92ll post it. INTERSTATE WRITERS PAGE: Newly added is Antonio Vallone If you=92re an out-of-state writer with a published book of literary fiction, nonfiction, or poetry, and you wish to be listed as available for readings in New York, look at the Interstate Writers page, follow the format, and email us the information IN THE BODY OF THE EMAIL NOT AS AN ATTACHMENT, and we=92ll post it. If you're a new reading series, send us your information. If you're a writer who has several readings to list, send them to us, and we'll post them under the presenting organization's name; they must include location address, phone number, and/or email address. If you wish to unsubscribe, just notify us. Questions? Comments? Email us at wordthur@catskill.net. ertha Rogers Site Administrator, Brittney Schoonebeek Assistant ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 00:10:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r...hey hony po... quotha the fool, nuncle...po is the honeyed vanity in life's crackt mirrrror...the bedded dew on a aa aas aass...or c..ts o oo ooo's...the devil he weareth the horned glass..his eye it squinteth..bow and scrape down to the idols of the market place..hey hony po....bigger BUDDHA better...the dragon's kite's tail is afire on the wind..put the w in po(w)...the po in the p(r)o(f)'s mo...stain the endless white mind...the fool in the tower singeth..ney nonny, no....quotha...Drn... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 07:46:24 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: looking for translators Comments: cc: Gaye MG Chan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm looking for people who translate innovative poetry from Japanese, = Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, Cambodian....Tinfish will be doing an = Asian-focused issue (#12) because the covers have come in demanding text = that runs right to left. This "error" demands an issue! Feel free to backchannel. Susan Schultz ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:57:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Felsinger Subject: - V e R T # 4 / the lyric issue Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Go see and read the fantastic new issue of -VeRT, the lyric issue: #4 click here: http://www.litvert.com to read work from the following contributors: John Ashbery, Aaron Belz, Richard Carfagna, Bill Freind, Andrew Felsinger, Samantha Giles, Andrew Goldfarb, David Hadbawnik, Patrick Herron, Jeffrey Jullich, Candace Moore, Cora Lee Potter, Eleni Sikelianos, Ken Tanemura, Tsering Wangmo Dhompa, Elisabeth Workman, a review of Eleni Sikelianos' new book _Earliest Worlds_ by Jono Schneider, Poetic Radicalism in the Internet Age by Patrick Herron, & Kent Johnson gives a quiz. It is summer, you have your whole life to go out and play Frisbee golf. Why not stay indoors and read a what some of us are up to. Enjoy! Andrew Felsinger ------------------------- -VeRT "This superabundance, this tyranny." --Samantha Giles http://www.litvert.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 23:05:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: Poets in Film Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the films generally discussed so far are all very middle of the road films all only slight alternatives to the dominant film culture almost ordinary etc etc///pete spence > >Kevin, > >You are right. The movie was called "High Art," and I am glad that you have >liked it too for essentially same qualities. Patricia clarkson is my >favorite >part too. Interesting also the link to Fassbinder. > >Another point about the movie. I think the photographs taken of the >interviewer are in black and white (am I correct) as opposed the other >photos >which have the intense, drugged out, deep hued, interior feel to them. If >so, > > >In a message dated 6/29/01 9:50:02 AM, kevinkillian@EARTHLINK.NET writes: > > >Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > > > >"The movie, called "Art" I think, about a lesbian photographer (forgot > >her name). In this movie also a style representing the photographer's >life > >and loves is intercut with her color photography which has a more intense > >version of the color palette of the rest of the film. Once again, the >movie > >embodies a stylistic dialectic, one reflecting, intensifying, commenting > >on > >the other. Also, in the movie, an affair between her and a magazine > >interviewer ends up her taking the interviewer's nude photos to be >published > >in the magazine -a subtle exploring of the relation between creation and > >mutual exploitation." > > > >I think this film was called "High Art." I remember when it came out > >a few years ago, people were commenting on how the director or writer > >Lisa Chodolenko seemed to have taken all of Nan Goldin's seediest > >traits and told Ally Sheedy to play her like a tragic heroine. I > >would have liked to be a fly on the wall when Goldin met Chodolenko! > >"High Art" is kind of an East Village "All About Eve" as the young > >straight woman attempts to outdo her wounded mentor in both art and > >sexuality. The younger woman if I recall was played by the > >Australian actress Radha Mitchell who later became an action heroine > >in one of my other favorite pictures PITCH BLACK! Mitchell is always > >great. Like Kylie Minogue, Russell Crowe, Guy Pearce she began her > >career on the Australian soap "Neighbours." > > > >"High Art" by the way also features in a small part a really great > >NY writer, Laurie Weeks, who appears during a party sequence and > >stares into the camera looking drugged out and decadent. And nobody > >who sees it ever forgets Patricia Clarkson, who plays the Nan Goldin > >character's best pal, a washed-up German actress and chanteuse who > >once worked for Fassbinder et cetera. Clarkson does a really funny > >job she is like Patsy on Ab Fab channelling Nico. > > > >Ok, enough background from me! Keep up this enjoyable thread of > >"Poets in Film." have we all seen Charles Bernstein yet in the Van > >Sant film? -- Kevin K. > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 14:13:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik Carolyn Gereau Another piece from Carolyn Gereau, all of which I know is a snail mail address of Carolyn Gereau, Communications Network, 1800 K St. NW, Washington, DC. And that it was a wonderful early spring day, with a soft breeze off the Potomac when I briefly corresponded. Rings Jane, the perfect girl name, pictures painted perfect still painting Shiny still hand grenade with wax that roommates use in hair. Picture The moment, look love to the camera. Oh it's obvious? She dumbs You down? Poetry, the point, the paintbrush, turns with you. Language Drums you down with limits. I said to Mary, no and there was no word For her disdain in that moment nor this. Twenty two rings inside me count Those minutes and see what tv-less moments have made. -- Second moon coming soon and birds in v's do not alone make poetry but Eyes lies sugar sighs. You ate cheesecake maniac buys pretty shoes and I sat On swings in vain. Running calves she grabbed and said you have been jogging Like the event was a story. Scorpion does not know his place, this time and the failure For the beast to act like a beast creates space like a bad museum exhibit. -- That which returned to makes for empty. I in, something found. I. In. found. Found In something. I in being found in. Being. Presidential ins. Royal Ins. Stripper ins. That which makes for good bye. That in Moment. Making. It was the second to turn. The alteration. Movement. Declaration of A fact. -- You sank my mindset with milk And ginger snaps. Twenty two days Til it's even possible for 60 degrees. Until then Wear wool like skin. on busses that people With too wide shoulder sit next to me, pinned to window With grease smudge. I was to be which today Is with you. Twelve, carpenters dream and lollipops at bank I still get now. -- Forgive flaws enough to give to you. To red. In blue. And I Feel pulsating pulls into depths I never Wanted. Pulling thoughts silence like wanting to know what lies. Dream afraid will end. And raspberry gum, filling mouth In ecstasy there was too much and I decide between spitting. Swallowing Running not a wave, but a storm green. -- The work week beginning makes preface job with bullshit. Hunters and Gathereres never thought This way nor does the homeless guy with his cart who never says I am a bullshit bum. Spare Change? Signed, the bullshit bum which my mother gave him, the Vietnam Dressed vet near the Vietnam wall but mom, that guy looks 25 Not born before Vietnam means you can't serve. bum hears. laughs. -- Pictures that look like vulvas or something similarly Phallic or carrots or whole, my body is not flower I cannot seem to keep alive, plants living 3 months. Must get Overly excited about the life water too much or too little life doesn't leave so early but oh a pie in the face Equals dash, half assed, equals who decides how it is best To decorate a Christmas tree, I insisted the Jewish boy didn't know And that because my mother was a nun the lights should be strung From the top of my consciousness floating in and out play the drums And think left foot every other right hand 8 right foot 4 and left hand Every other it's enough to make me write poetry or go to church Which could be my job, since a priest applied to be the new boss here, our father I've been writing poetry when I'm supposed to be working And yes I repent but I'll do it tomorrow with or without paper This began because it got too long for my head to contain you do it To characters you see, their lives, I would like to know your perception of you The ugliest moments have their clarity and models grow old, plastic surgery Kept up becomes a play boy horror story. -- Patent leather shoes reflecting my ruffles panties which Only illuminates my blush which allusions the moment Elude your thoughts until you find it down, sewer wise, Called him Sarge like the pitbull, no beatle bailey Was I seven or five the day became tell me What made you that way, question you are fucked, answer. Testifying testimonial tell me was it wrong did you Song sty, singing meadow, couple placed on an Island with singles waiting to be buggard Is your love worth the beauty, and std free videoed Voyeur. It made you think more than the movied out Social critique gone wrong. Cigarettes cause cancer And your unique little lungs are replaceable what to do with a busted brain. Carolyn Gereau ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 21:54:44 -0400 Reply-To: dbuuck@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "dbuuck@mindspring.com" Subject: SF housesit Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Looking for someone to housesit/catsit in San Francisco, approx. July 22-Aug 10. Nice sunny flat near highways & transpor= tation, 2 low maint. cats. Email or call for details, thanks David Buuck 415-648-9422 dbuuck@mindspring.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mail2Web - Check your email from the web at http://www.mail2web.com/ . ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:06:17 -0500 Reply-To: archambeau@hermes.lfc.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Archambeau Organization: Lake Forest College Subject: ANTI-LAUREATE COUNTDOWN MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Okay, folks, The United States Anti-Laureate Commission has been up late, guzzling Oolong tea in a Chinese restaurant and tabulating votes. With just over a day to go, the race for the anti-laurels is neck-and-neck, with Anselm Hollo and Rosmarie Waldrop narrowly ahead of Gustaf Sobin. A grassroots movement for Kenneth Koch picked up a little steam, too, so stay tuned -- and remember, the polls are open! From my Imac at a secret location in a small Chinese restaurant on the outskirts of Chicago, Robert "Oolong" Archambeau High Commissioner, United States Anti-Laureate Commission ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:10:11 -0400 Reply-To: klou@dept.english.upenn.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kathy Lou Schultz Organization: University of Pennsylvania Department of English Subject: CFP: Modernist Women Writers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Kathy Lou Schultz wrote: > HOW2 , an electronic extension of the 80s journal HOW(ever), focusing on > innovative writing and scholarship by and about contemporary and > modernist women writers, is seeking conference papers given in these > subject areas for the "In Conference" section of the journal. Recent > papers published include work from the MINA LOY: A SYMPOSIUM, papers > delivered at the Institute of English Studies—School of Advanced > studies, University of London, on 11 March 2000 and AFRICAN-AMERICAN NEW > POETRIES, papers delivered at the American Literature Association > Conference, Long Beach, California, Spring 2000. Papers from male and > female scholars welcome. The paper must have been given at a recent > conference. See the most recent "In Conference" section at: > http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/stadler_center/how2/current/in-conference/index.html. > > Email submissions or questions to: klou@english.upenn.edu. > > -- > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Kathy Lou Schultz > http://www.english.upenn.edu/~klou > > "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. > Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." > -- Groucho Marx -- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Kathy Lou Schultz http://www.english.upenn.edu/~klou "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." -- Groucho Marx ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 16:52:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Midsummer Night Songs, Art and Anarchy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Come Sing and Celebrate at our outdoor KUPALO FREAKOUT -- Pagan Ukrainian Midsummer Night Rituals, Songs, Art and Anarchy Friday July 6th at 8:30PM in the Community Garden at 6th St and Ave B -- The event is free. featuring Yara artists: Mariana Sadovska, Zabryna Guevara, Jina Oh, Meredith Wright, Odarka Polanskyj, Alla Kusevych, Irena Hrechko, a new live reading and multi-projector film performance by filmmaker Joel Schlemowitz and poet Wanda Phipps, wreath maker Roksolana Luchkan and food artist Olesia Lew Featured performers: Alexis Kochan from Winnipeg, Bandurists: Julian Kytasty, Mike Andrec, Jurij Fedynski. Budmo Musical Group with Valeryi Zhmud, Roman Galynsky, Mykhailo Gnatuk and Petro Gorganyuk For more & updates see www.brama.com/yara/kupalo.html -- Wanda Phipps Hey, don't forget to check out my website MIND HONEY http://users.rcn.com/wanda.interport (and if you have already try it again) poetry, music and more! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 17:34:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: flux@THING.NET Subject: FLUXRECORDS LAUNCHES 226-DAY AUDIO MARATHON Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =46OR IMMEDIATE RELEASE http://fluxrecords.com Press Contact: Frank Rothkamm (323) 512-2709 info@fluxrecords.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________ Dateline: Monday, July 2nd, 2001 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ =46LUXRECORDS LAUNCHES 226-DAY AUDIO MARATHON +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ After nine months of continuous work, Flux Records is pleased to announce the international web launch of FLUXRECORDS.COM Rothkamm 1982-2002. This digital label, dedicated to the solo and collaborative audio works of Frank Rothkamm, will release one track a day for 226 days selected by an algorithmic DJ. -> 1) The complete public audio works of Rothkamm will be released as a conceptual continuum to all subscribers. Subscription is free via the =46LUXRECORDS.COM site. -> 2) FLUXRECORDS.COM is launched as a web application. It combines mp3, napster and relational database technologies to give anonymous and free access to the complete public audio works of Frank Rothkamm. Searchable data can be downloaded or streamed in realtime. -> 3) Minimum requirements: Any 4.x browser and 56k modem. DSL internet access or better are recommended for HiFi streams. =46lux Records was founded in 1993 in New York City with a mission to produc= e and release the limited edition CDs, vinyl albums and books created by Frank Rothkamm, the originator of SUPERMODERNISM, and by the elite stable of artists he selected. The label moved to the internet in 1994, to the web in 1996 and has been in exclusive digital production and distribution since 1998. In 2000 it moved on to become a dedicated server, operating various domains from Hollywood, CA. "Starting in 1992 I reworked tracks that were never released or were left unfinished and toyed with the idea of making some kind of super structure of audio works created over a twenty-year period. As time went on I began to see all my tracks as making up one conceptual continuum. This formulated the aesthetic of SUPERMODERNISM. As my work unfolded with one style following another, I was very careful to avoid redundancy. The disparate parts are now coming together to form an aesthetic whole," says Rothkamm. And indeed, as many artists are forced to build their own spaces to present something unusual, Rothkamm had to build a supermodern digital infrastructure to present FLUXRECORDS.COM on a full-blown 226-day scale. =46or more information and to search the complete flux records database, please go to http://www.fluxrecords.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 16:58:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: chris stroffolino Subject: Re: COME CELEBRATE THE 32nd ANNIVERSARY OF BRIAN JONES' DEATH MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am happy to announce that John Godfrey (author of the new PUSH THE MULE) will also read for this event..... but Yuri Hospodar will not be able to make it (laryngitis).... David Shapiro informs me it is also the 1st anniversary of John Hedjuk's death.... thanks, Chris chris stroffolino wrote: > FREE..... > On Tuesday, July 3, 2001 > @ Teachers & Writers > 5 Union Square West, 7th Floor > 7PM (for more info, calll 212-691-6590) > > a book party for two new Spuyten Duyvil Books. > "Are Not Our Lowing Heifers Sleeker Than Night-Swollen Mushroom?" > a book of poetry by NADA GORDON > > and "SPIN CYCLE" a book of essays/reviews/prose > by CHRIS STROFFOLINO > > Nada Gordon will be reading from her work > and several of the writers written about in Chris Stroffolino's book > will also read--- > David Shapiro > Jane Ransom > Yuri Hospodar > and perhaps others... > > there may also be music... > and copies of the books > and mr. novo. rais'n.... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 23:15:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino orToni Simon Subject: Anti Lauriat Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I nominate David Bromige. To stand watch over the art of poetry we need his superb poetic talent, his international background and his incomparable wit. Nick Piombino http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/piombino ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 23:26:51 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick herron Subject: Re: ANTI-LAUREATE COUNTDOWN In-Reply-To: <3B408DEA.507DE2E1@lfc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SALLY STRUTHERS! I hereby nominate myself to be the anti-anti-anti-anti-laureate. if two negatives don't make a positive and two wrongs make no right turns to glory, then by george crown me with a cow patty! i mean, why would someone want to be a christmas tree? or someone mentioned kylie minogue recently. i mean, the name alone deserves all glory and honor. so i nominate kylie minogue as well. and this by tom waits, who casts laurels in their proper perspective: alongside hardy. Well, I'm a jitterbug boy, by the shoe-shine Resting on my laurels and my hardys too Life of Riley on a swing shift, gears follow my drift Once upon a time I was in show-biz too I seen the Brooklyn Dodgers playing at Ebbets Field Seen the Kentucky Derby too It's fast women, slow horses, unreliable sources, And I'm holding up the lamp-post if you want to know I've seen the Wabash Cannonball, buddy, I've done it all 'Cause I slept with the lions and Marilyn Monroe, Had breakfast in the eye of a hurricane Fought Rocky Marciano, played Minnesota Fats, Burned hundred-dollar bills, I've eaten Mulligan stew Got drunk with Louis Armstrong, what's that old song? I taught Mickey Mantle everything that he knows So you ask me what I'm doing here holding up the lamp-post, Flipping this quarter, trying to make up my mind And if it's heads I go to Tennessee, and tails I buy a drink, If it lands on the edge I keep talking to you I think that it's just *great* that we all want to nominate our own king, but isn't this just giving us more monarchy? I've had it up to here with leaders as it is, and everywhere I go to get away from them, there's another one coming. perhaps the appropriate nominee is someone who doesn't exist. araki yasusada, because when you knock on his door, there's no one home. sorry to be a party pooper and all, but suddenly things aren't resting too well in me gullet. Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Robert Archambeau > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 11:06 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: ANTI-LAUREATE COUNTDOWN > > > Okay, folks, > > The United States Anti-Laureate Commission has been up late, guzzling > Oolong tea in a Chinese restaurant and tabulating votes. > > With just over a day to go, the race for the anti-laurels is > neck-and-neck, with Anselm Hollo and Rosmarie Waldrop narrowly ahead of > Gustaf Sobin. A grassroots movement for Kenneth Koch picked up a little > steam, too, so stay tuned -- and remember, the polls are open! > > >From my Imac at a secret location in a small Chinese restaurant on the > outskirts of Chicago, > > Robert "Oolong" Archambeau > High Commissioner, United States Anti-Laureate Commission > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 22:15:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Kuszai" Subject: Thirdest World Book Launch/ New York City Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed for your information... >From: "Lara Stapleton" > >Please come help celebrate the release of THE THIRDEST WORLD, a chapbook by >three Filipino writers, published by Factory School. > >The chapbook includes work by Eric Gamalinda, Gina Apostol, and Lara >Stapleton. > >Pre-launch party, Friday July 13, 7pm, Zinc Bar, 90 Houston, tw. La Guardia >and Thompson > >Launch party, Thursday July 19, 7pm, Asian-American Writers’ Workshop, 16 >W. 32nd St., tw. Broadway and 5th Ave > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 22:11:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Potter Subject: Re: Poets in Film In-Reply-To: <1675594447.993813039@microwork25.lib.buffalo.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit yup on 6/29/01 8:10 AM, Brandon Stosuy at bstosuy@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU wrote: > has anyone mentioned henry fool? > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 22:38:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Killian Subject: Poets in Film In-Reply-To: <29616583.993829936053.JavaMail.imail@pugsly.excite.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cassie Lewis asked: >Did Crowe start in "Neighbours"? I remember him from wonderful films like >"The Sum of Us", "Romper Stomper" and "Proof", all landmarks of Australian >cinema... Hi Cassie, check out http://www.ananova.com/entertainment/story/sm_218312.html yes check out this link in which Russell reminisces about joining "Neighbours" to break up Kylie and Jason (1987). When I seek to know more about on Crowe, I go to the fabulous fan site, "Russell Crowe: The Prose and the Passion," which for some reason takes as its epigraph Forster's famous line from "Howards End" -- "Only connect the prose and the passion, and both will be exalted...." Halvald Johnson replied: And there was, in the last decade or so, a film about a blind photographer. Since my mind's becoming more and more like a steel sieve, I've forgotten its title. This is indeed "Proof," one of the films Cassie was referring to. Hugo Weaving (so evil in "The Matrix" and so funny in "Priscilla Queen of the Desert" was the blind photographer, and Russell was this loser dishwasher guy whom Weaving falls in love with. Pete Spence added: the films generally discussed so far are all very middle of the road films all only slight alternatives to the dominant film culture almost ordinary etc etc// Hi Pete! I myself have acted in many unusual "underground" films that represent complete challenges to Hollywood hegemony. I bet a lot of people on this list will say the same, if pressed. Is this the kind of thing you mean? But innovative works of art or poetry seem to derive themselves just as rapidly from the middle-of-the road cinema (what would Joseph Cornell's "Rose Hobart" be without Rose Hobart herself?) as from the films of say Stan Brakhage or Sadie Benning. Thus Hart Crane's "Chaplinesque" or Frank O'Hara's "Lana Turner has collapsed" etc etc, so we're in a double dilemma that resolves itself eventually down the road. -- Kevin Killian ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 23:20:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Poets in Film In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >the films generally discussed so far are all very middle of the road films >all only slight alternatives to the dominant film culture almost ordinary >etc etc///pete spence "The Sons of Captain Poetry" middle of the road? -- George Bowering Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 03:10:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r...Ted Enslin at Dumbo General Store... since i was away last mon. i missed the inaugural reading at the Dumbo General Store ( down under the Bklyn Bridge...DUMBO).....but if i had been there i'm sure i would have loved it.. nota the facts...Hirsh Silverman..our very own bard from Bayonne didn't intro..25 folks found it...Enslin who hardly every makes it to under the B.B...read 5 long poems in a soft ....musical..studiedwithNadiaBoulanger...voice wine after wine..."thank for massaging my ego"....no nattering nabobs of negative near.....jeez this is easy...long as i don;t have to go... i loves the po.......Drn... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:39:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sylvester pollet Subject: ANTI-LAUREATE COUNTDOWN Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Oolong, The more I think about this, the more I realize that there can't be one anti-laureate. Anti-laureatship requires at least the whole list you've assembled, preferably with the names erased. But better to add more names first. Sylvester Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:06:17 -0500 >From: Robert Archambeau >Subject: ANTI-LAUREATE COUNTDOWN > >Okay, folks, > >The United States Anti-Laureate Commission has been up late, guzzling >Oolong tea in a Chinese restaurant and tabulating votes. > >With just over a day to go, the race for the anti-laurels is >neck-and-neck, with Anselm Hollo and Rosmarie Waldrop narrowly ahead of >Gustaf Sobin. A grassroots movement for Kenneth Koch picked up a little >steam, too, so stay tuned -- and remember, the polls are open! > >From my Imac at a secret location in a small Chinese restaurant on the >outskirts of Chicago, > >Robert "Oolong" Archambeau >High Commissioner, United States Anti-Laureate Commission ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 12:38:26 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mariana Ruiz Firmat Subject: Re: Laureate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I second this nomination Mariana >From: T Pelton >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Laureate >Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 01:12:15 -0400 > >Wouldn't Amiri Baraka be cool. > >If he considered George Sr. to be a reefer -- "people get high on him" -- >what is his son? A JD & Coke hit with a tab of acid? > >Ted Pelton _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:46:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcella Durand Subject: anti-laureate nominations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hey guys, The general gender and racial composition of the nominees for anti-poet laureate so far are, unfortunately, shaking up to be approximately that of the poet laureate list. I think we all need to be more reactionary on this front and invert these numbers. Therefore, I nominate Bernadette Mayer, Harryette Mullen and Cecilia Vicuna. Best, Marcella ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 07:30:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael amberwind Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii i find it fascinating that all the anti laureates considered by this list are not "anti" but "alternative" - and i mean "alternative" in the same way the music industry co-opted the term - no alternative at all if it's being shoved down your throats i have little problem with many names mentioned - the ones i am familiar with - but aren't they all anthologised? citizens of official verse culture? i suspect anyone nominated by the members of this list could *not* be an anti laureate a true anti laureate could not speak for poetry or poets - only themselves they would not offer comfortable visions they would probably be locked away in a mad house, because they would more likely be using their own blood to write on walls than pen and paper we wouldn't like them - we would not want to be their friends a true anti-laureate would be opposed to everything the laureate stands for ---------------------- > > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 21:28:40 EDT > From: Joseph Massey > Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination > > I nominate CA Conrad! > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:52:14 -0700 > From: "K.Silem Mohammad" > > Subject: Re: ANTI-LAUEREATE OF THE UNITED > STATES OF AMERICA > > >Nominees so far are: > > > >John M. Bennett > > > >Karl Kempton > > > >Will Inman > > > >Alan Sondheim > > > >Ron Silliman > > > >Kathy Ernst > > > >Richard Kostelanetz > > > >Alice Notley > > > >and (my nominee) Pierre Joris > > > Hey, where's Ficus Strangulensis??? Doesn't my > vote count? > > I'll withdraw the Suzanne Sommers nomination; > I'm not an unreasonable > man.... > > Kasey > > > > > > ......................................... > > || K. Silem Mohammad > > || Literature Department > > || University of California Santa Cruz > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 20:16:10 -0600 > From: Mary Angeline > > Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination > > I second the nomination for ALICE NOTLEY. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Anselm Hollo > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > Sent: 6/27/01 6:55:26 AM > > Subject: Anti-Laureate Nomination > > > > > > > anti-popes at Avignon, or Exact Change's great > "anti-classics" book > series. > > Nominees? Bob Archambeau > > > > I nominate ALICE NOTLEY. > > > > > > > > > > > --- Mary Angeline > > > > Peace Happy Blessings > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 22:40:29 -0400 > From: Daniel Kane > Subject: pro-Laureate > > Yes - Kenneth Koch, for god's sake -- all the > work he's done promoting > poetry to a larger populace, while maintaining > fidelity to an > experimental, innovative, hilarious poetics. > > RON PADGETT -- luminary of Teachers & Writers > Collaborative for decades -- > spreading poetry beyond boundaries of > generation, race, time, etc... > > --daniel > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 23:25:51 -0400 > From: Gwyn McVay > Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination > > I think we're missing something implicit in > "anti." Aren't we looking for > the most opposite to the laureate possible? I > therefore nominate Bob > Kaufman, who is more opposite to Billy Collins > than any of the previous > nominees, because Collins is alive and Kaufman > is dead. > > Gwyn > > > > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 14:40:27 -0500 > > > From: Aaron Belz > > > Subject: Re: Laureates > > > > > > Has anyone considered blaming the poor > quality > > > of famous American poetry on > > > the Iowa Writers Workshop?? I was just > looking > > > at the website, and noticed > > > this statement: > > > > > > "The program has produced a dozen winners > of > > > the Pulitzer Prize (most > > > recently Jorie Graham in poetry,1996), > three > > > recent US Poet Laureates (Mark > > > Strand, Mona Van Duyn and Rita Dove), and > > > numerous winners of the National > > > Book Award and other major literary honors. > A > > > list of prominent graduates > > > and faculty would be too long to reproduce. > > > Noted graduates include: > > > Flannery O'Connor, John Irving, Robert Bly, > > > Tracy Kidder, Allan Gurganus, > > > W.P. Kinsella, Wallace Stegner, William > > > Stafford, Bharati Mukherjee, Jane > > > Smiley, Thom Jones, Bob Shacochis, Margaret > > > Walker, Andre Dubus, Phil > > > Levine, Donald Justice, Raymond Carver and > T. > > > Coraghessan Boyle." > > > (from http://www.uiowa.edu/~iww/iww2.htm) > > > > > > So--- *three* poet laureates!! Maybe > there's > > > something fishy with our basic > > > poet-producing machinery. Maybe the > industrial > > > revolution is taking a final > > > toll on Western culture. Or is there some > > > hitherto unnoticed connexion > > > between the Bush Clan and the Iowa City > Chosen? > > i fail to see how one individual appointed by > elites (even anti-elites elites) to speak for > poetry (or anti-poetry poetry) is different > from > another officially recognised poet appointed to > speak for or to the elites > > *scratches head* > > can anyone untangle what i just said for me - i > am confused... > > *breaks out Strunk & Whites style guide and > shudders* > > i nominate Scott Carlson for Poet Laureate of > the > U.$.A. > > my reasons? > > 1) He'd never accept the position > 2) None of you have ever heard of him - he is > only published in six magazines > 3) He has embraced complete rejection of > tradition as the path to Pure Art > 4) I love and hate his work > 5) He's a good friend of mine > 6) He's Canadian - I think the true > anti-Laureate > of North America would be Canadian... or > Mexican > 7) He could use the cash > 8) I'd love to crash all the parties he would > no > doubt be invited to and make an ass of myself > 9) His poems make absolutely no sense > whatsoever > 10) Even though I am a MUCH better poet than he > is - something I tell him all the time but (to > his credit) he never believes me. He is a > vastly > over-rated poet by himself, and vastly > under-rated one by all others. > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 03:35:13 +0000 > > From: anielsen@LMU.EDU > > Subject: anti-laureates, readings on > readings, > > and a query > > > > first the query -- can anybody b.ch. me with > a > > mailing address or email for Gerrit Lansing? > > > > -- anti-laureates -- I doubt that you could > > argue persuasively that the poets named to > the > > laureateship have been, on average, any more > > conservative than those who held the > > consultantship -- the most aesthetically > > radical was Williams, who was never permitted > > to assume the position -- but with the advent > > of the new title, the LOC set about rapidly > > recycling the oldest and most conservative of > > those who had already held the post as > > Consultants -- there had always been an > > unspoken rule that you got two years max and > > couldn't be reappointed beyond that-- but the > > powers that would be apparently felt that > some > > Consultants were more equal to the task than > > others -- > > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:06:28 -0400 > > From: ANASTASIOS KOZAITIS > > > > Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination > > > > I nominate JAY WRIGHT > > > > Anastasios Kozaitis > > > > At 12:51 AM 6/27/01, you wrote: > > >< -- > > you know, sort of like the > > >anti-popes at Avignon, or Exact Change's > great > > "anti-classics" book series. > > >Nominees? Bob Archambeau>> > > > > > >I nominate ALICE NOTLEY. > > > > > >Anselm Hollo > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:02:44 -0600 > > From: Laura Wright > > > > Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination > > > > I heartily second the nomination of ALICE > > NOTLEY. > > -- > > Laura Wright > > Serials Cataloging > > Norlin Library, University of Colorado, > Boulder > > > > (303) 492-3923 > > > > "Owning language is a weird phenomenon which > > makes less sense now than it > > ever did." > > --Bernadette Mayer > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 10:18:30 EDT > > From: Austinwja@AOL.COM > > Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination > > > > In a message dated 6/27/2001 8:55:36 AM, > > JDHollo@AOL.COM writes: > > > > << < anti-laureate > > -- you know, sort of like the > > anti-popes at Avignon, or Exact Change's > great > > "anti-classics" book series. > > Nominees? Bob Archambeau>> > > > > I nominate ALICE NOTLEY. > > > > Anselm Hollo >> > > > > I nominate Kenneth Koch (grossly > > underappreciated). > > > > William James Austin > > > > William James Austin.com > > Koja Press.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > > ===== > ...I am a real poet. My poem > is finished and I haven't mentioned > orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call > it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery > I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES. > [from "Why I Am Not A Painter" by Frank > O'Hara] > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! > Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:09:42 -0400 > From: Alan Sondheim > Subject: > > - > > > > ghost unravel me > let it flow , it's time to let it go:: > death and letting be > to > time > to murder me, it's time to let me go, > it's time to let me be, it's > time > death, it's the year of god's breath , > it's time to let me go : it's > time to let it go: it's the year of no > return, it's the year of black > it's > me, ghost your gaping maw, ghost your teeth, > ghost enough of this , > st unravel me, ghost absorb me, ghost don't > let me be, ghost fuck over > go:: death and letting be > let it > t me go, it's time to let me be, it's time to > let it flow , it's time to > time to le > god's breath , it's time to let me go : it's > time to murder me, it's > year of > go: it's the year of no return, it's the year > of black death, it's the > let it > t your gaping maw, ghost your teeth, ghost > enough of this , it's time to > let it > go: it's the year of no return, it's the year > of black death, it's the > year of > god's breath , it's time to let me go : it's > time to murder me, it's > time to le > t me go, it's time to let me be, it's time to > let it flow , it's time to > let it > go:: death and letting be > st unravel me, ghost absorb me, ghost don't > let me be, ghost fuck over > me, ghost your gaping maw, ghost your teeth, > ghost enough of this , > it's > time to let it go: it's the year of no > return, it's the year of black > death, it's the year of god's breath , > it's time to let me go : it's > time > to murder me, it's time to let me go, > it's time to let me be, it's > time > to > let it flow , it's time to let it go:: > death and letting be > ghost unravel me > > > _ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 08:36:13 -0700 > From: Robert Corbett > Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination > > I nominate Eileen Myles! > > > -- > Robert Corbett "I will discuss > perfidy with scholars as > rcor@u.washington.edu as if spurning > kisses, I will sip > Department of English the marble > marrow of empire. I want sugar > University of Washington but I shall > never wear shame and if you > call that > sophistry then what is Love" > > - Lisa Robertson > > On Wed, 27 Jun 2001 Austinwja@AOL.COM wrote: > > > In a message dated 6/27/2001 8:55:36 AM, > JDHollo@AOL.COM writes: > > > > << < anti-laureate -- you know, sort of like the > > anti-popes at Avignon, or Exact Change's > great "anti-classics" book series. > > Nominees? Bob Archambeau>> > > > > I nominate ALICE NOTLEY. > > > > Anselm Hollo >> > > > > I nominate Kenneth Koch (grossly > underappreciated). > > > > William James Austin > > > > William James Austin.com > > Koja Press.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:58:01 -0500 > From: J Gallaher > Subject: Re: ANTI-LAUEREATE OF THE UNITED > STATES OF AMERICA > > Robert, > > OK, I'll bite. The Anti-laureate, in my > mind, would have to be a > writer of high accomplishment who is way too > "hot" for the culture > industry to handle. Someone who remains close > to the art, at the > expense of "professional" recognition. > > I have several nominees. Hoards, actually. But > to narrow it to two: > > Rae Armantrout > Gustaf Sobin > > --JGallaher > > > ----------------------------------Previous > Message: > Okay, folks, I'm taking this Anti-Laureate idea > global. > > In the tradition of the Russian Belyi prize for > unrecognized > literature, the award will take the form of one > bottle of vodka, along > with an announcement of the winner in this > summer's edition of > Samizdat (which features Michael Heller and > Belgian Surrealism). > > Add to that the possible printing of a limited > edition chapbook by the > winner from Samizdat Editions. > > Send your nominations to me at > archambeau@lfc.edu until July 3, and > I'll annouce the winner of the first > Anti-Laureate competion to the > list on July 4th. > > All poets are eligible (non-US poets too), > except those with Iowa > MFAs, Pulitzer Prizes, or strong personal ties > to Helen Vendler. > > Nominees so far are: > > > John M. Bennett > > Karl Kempton > > Will Inman > > Alan Sondheim > > Ron Silliman > > Kathy Ernst > > Richard Kostelanetz > > Alice Notley > > and (my nominee) Pierre Joris > > (who has the added alure of being from > Luxembourg, a country > grossly underrepresented among U.S. Poets > Laureate). > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 20:42:24 -0600 > From: Maria Damon > Subject: Re: ANTI-LAUEREATE OF THE UNITED > STATES OF AMERICA > > okay, i also wanna nominate john wieners. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 15:55:53 -0400 > From: "Broder, Michael" > Subject: Ear Inn Readings--Summer Vacation > > The Ear Inn Readings > Saturdays at 3:00 > 326 Spring Street, west of Greenwich > New York City > FREE > > June 30 > NO READING--COME TO THE MERMAID PARADE IN CONEY > ISLAND--SEE POETS AS > MERMAIDS, SEA HORSES, AND STARFISH ON THE > BOARDWALK! > > July 7 > Independence Day Weekend (sort of)--NO READING > > July 14 > Aaron Balkan, Greg Pardlo, Noel Sikorski > > The Ear Inn Readings > Michael Broder, Director > Patrick Donnelly, Lisa Freedman, Kathleen E. > Krause, Jason Schneiderman, > Co-Directors > Martha Rhodes, Executive Director > > The Ear is one block north of Canal Street, a > couple blocks west of Hudson. > > The closest trains are the 1-9 to Canal Street > @ Varick, the A to Canal > Street @ Sixth Ave, or the C-E to Spring > Street@ Sixth Ave. > > For additional information, contact Michael > Broder at (212) 246-5074. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 20:40:55 -0600 > From: Maria Damon > Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination > > i nominate our v own alan sondheim. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 04:25:52 +0000 > From: anielsen@LMU.EDU > Subject: Re: ANTI-LAUEREATE OF THE UNITED > STATES OF AMERICA > > New Category: AnteLaureate > > Nominee: Raul Zurita > > > "Why don't they stop throwing > symbols?" > --Bob Kaufman > > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > The George and Barbara Kelly Professor of > American Literature > Department of English > The Pennsylvania State University > 119 Burrowes > University Park, PA > 16802-6200 > > > > > > _________________________________________________ > The simple way to read all your emails at > ThatWeb > http://www.thatweb.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:01:08 -0700 > From: peter culley > Subject: Tove Janesson > > Tove Janesson, Finnish author and illustrator > of the Moomin books, died = > today at 86. Kiitos, Tove. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 15:29:25 -0700 > From: David Abel > Subject: Re: anti-laureates, readings on > readings, > and a query; and another query > > The anthology (titled, aptly enough, The Poetry > Reading: A Contemporary > Compendium on Language and Performance) was > edited by Steve Vincent and > Ellen Zweig, and published by Vincent's Momo's > Press in 1981. Several > copies can be found online at Advanced Book > Exchange (www.abebooks.com), > which, as many listees must know, is far and > away the best online > resource for out of print books. (For > transparency, I should reveal that > I am one of the five or ten thousand > bookdealers who list there.) > > Can anyone bc with an email address for Charles > Borkhuis? > > Thanks, > > David Abel > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 18:00:02 -0400 > From: Geoffrey Gatza > Subject: 3 cheers for Alice Notley RE: > Anti-Laureate Nomination > > I'll third this nomination. Even though > I understand this is foolishness, > and agree that a laureateship for Koch would be > a hoot. Alice Notley, > embodies all things avant-garde poetry > endeavors after. The poetry that she > has lived with, produced and nurtured is truly > an American treasure. I guess > that I should just say treasure so as not to > insult. I am not sure if she > enjoys the US and all it is. So 3 cheers for > Alice Notley > > Hip hip hurray Hip hip hurray Hip hip hurray > > Best, Geoffrey > > Geoffrey Gatza > editor BlazeVOX2k1 > http://vorplesword.com/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On > Behalf Of John Coletti > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 4:51 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate Nomination > > I second that nomination. > > -John Coletti > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On > Behalf Of Anselm Hollo > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 12:51 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Anti-Laureate Nomination > > > < you know, sort of like the > anti-popes at Avignon, or Exact Change's great > "anti-classics" book series. > Nominees? Bob Archambeau>> > > I nominate ALICE NOTLEY. > > Anselm Hollo > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 01:13:55 -0400 > From: Harry Nudel > > Subject: m&r...le pope feu.... > > the setting up of a shadow govt..or anti > pope po laurio...or red cat po...id > dooooooomed.... to the same > careerism...centrism....elitism...and > betterism...as in bigger breasts better...might > as well stick with Billie Collins...easy to > pronounce remember & forget 'bout it... > > In other matters..the Ginzie Project is > moving along apace...funding has been secured > from the Jack Kerouac Disembodied Creative Po > Scroll Fund...that ever busy hagiographer Ed > Sanders has hired on as the director...Gregory > Coso's ghost has promised to return as Perce > Shelley's Father's Ghost... > > After considerable rewriting...Ginzie is > in Venice to rework yet again the Dr. Faustus > story...in return for ETERNAL WORLDLY > FAME...the main character sells a controlling > interest in his soul...to Trungpa or THE > RIMP...or 'your most serene nothingness' as he > is known to his devotees...Unzel Tinzing moves > in as the A-Virus... > > ding dong > bell...from the ding dong bell tower....DRn... > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 22:47:58 -0700 > From: Summi Kaipa > Subject: INTERLOPE #6 is out! > > Hey All, > > I just want to let you know that INTERLOPE #6, > a magazine that aims to > publish experimental writing by Asian American > writers, is out and about. > > Past contributors include: > > Tina Celona, Chris Chen, Jessica Chiu, Linh > Dinh, Sesshu Foster, Rafeeq > Hasan, Lee Herrick, Mytili Jagannathan, Alvin > Lu, Pamela Lu, Warren Liu, > Sawako Nakayasu, Kirthi Nath, Sianne Ngai, Amar > Ravva, Prageeta Sharma, > Brian Kim Stefans, Ida Yoshinag, and Fred Wah. > > Issue 6 features criticism on AsAm issues . . . > stuff by some provacateurs > extraordinaires! > > Miya Masaoka > Ben Kim > Pamela Lu > Eileen Tabios > Yuji Oniki > Quentin Lee > Walter K. Lew > Kerri Sakamoto > Jean Chen > Martin Wong > Jeff Chang > > Issues are $5 per . . . > > Summi Kaipa > Interlope > PO Box 423058 > San Francisco, CA 94142 > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 12:17:24 -0500 > From: Robert Archambeau > > Subject: THE GREAT AMERICAN ANTI-LAUREATE SAGA: > AN UPDATE > > Yow! My mailbox runneth over with > anti-laureate nominees! > > Remember the rules, though, folks: an august > institution such as the > U.S. Anti-Laureate Commission will only retain > its legitimacy and the > respect of the great American public if the > competition is run > fair-n-square. So: no Pulitzer winners, no > Iowa MFAs, and no close > friends of Helen Vendler. > > Barrett Watten tells me that this disqualifies > him from consideration > (not a scandal yet, since no one has nominated > him). > > But oh no, there's more: B.W. tells me this > disqualifies Alice Notley, > who was one of the front runners as of this > morning (behind only two > others, Anselm Hollo and Rosmarie Waldrop). > > Shock! Horror! The United States > Anti-Laureate Commission is rocked by > scandal, and Juan Antonio Carlos Ortega > Sammawich, High Commissioner of > the USALC has resigned, retiring to his private > island near Corfu to > sulk and tearfully paw over the pages of "The > Descent of Alette." > > But keep those cards and letters (well, those > emails, anyway) coming -- > the race for Anti-Laureate continues, and at > this point it is anyone's > game (except for Alice, apparently, who can now > feel the anguish of > being marginalized by the margins for her > one-time affiliation with a > pseudohegemonic outfir -- a situation that has > my irony meter > redlining). > > Bob Archambeau > Arbiter of Taste, > Acting High Commissioner of the United States > Anti-Laureate Commission, > and > recent purchaser of a bottle of Ketel One > vodka, to be shipped to the > winning poet > (apologies to Alice Notley, who is really an > amazing poet, and who must > now join the ranks of those amazing poets who > have been denied > recognition by the Institutions of Poetic > Consecration [alternative > version]). > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:04:48 EDT > From: GasHeart@AOL.COM > Subject: Philly: Theater, Music, Film - Issue > #43 > > 1. Philadelphia Fringe Festival Block Party; > Silent Auction, Thurs., June 28, > 5:30-8:30, Today > 2. Tom Tom Club with Echo and the Bunnymen, at > TLA July 5th > 3. Roxy Music at The Tweeter Center, July 19th, > i have excellent tix at cost > 4. OVAL, German music from intentionally > scratched cd's, at The Rotunda this > Friday, June 29th, tomorrow > 5. BILLY IDOL AT ELECTRIC FACTORY, AUGUST 3 > 6. Gina Renzi presents-----A night of fusing > the classical with the > experiment, > the dance instinct with the zone-out desire, at > the CEC, Sunday, July 8th > 7. CALL FOR PERFORMING ARTISTS; P POWER > PERFORMANCE PROJECT, FEMALE SUPERHERO > THEMED > 8. Actor, Rockets Redglare dead > 9. photography darkroom co-op forming? > 10. Implosion at 10th and Poplar, Sunday at > 8am, will be on channel 6 TV > > ________________________________________________________ > > 1. Philadelphia Fringe Festival Block Party; > Silent Auction > > Thurs., June 28, 5:30-8:30, Today > > Please join us at this event on Vine Street > between Third and American > Streets to benefit the Philadelphia Fringe > Festival, with food and > refreshments > provided by Marco's. Be among the first to see > images from > the soon-to-be-published Fringe Festival > Postcard Book, featuring photographs > by Steve Belkowitz of notable local performing > artists. A silent > auction of 11"x17" Iris prints of the original > postcard photographs will > take place at the 222 Gallery (222 Vine Street) > during the party; the > photographs > will remain on display at 222 through July 28. > > ______________________________________________________________ > > 2. Tom Tom Club at TLA July 5th, with Echo and > the Bunnymen > actually Tom Tom Club is opening for Echo and > the Bunnymen, but i think it > should be the other way around.... > I'm definitely going to this, Tom Tom club is > known for hits like "Pleasure > of Love" and "Man with the Four Way > Hips"....Echo and the Bunnymen are known > for "Lips Like Sugar, Sugar Kisses", both bands > were big in the 80's > The Tom Tom Club key members are Tina Weymouth > and Chris Frantz of The > Talking Heads, she is the bass player and he is > the drummer, and they are > married. > While they were in The Talking Heads, they > formed the Tom Tom club as a side > project, but actually sold more records than > the Talking Heads did, kinda put > David Byrne in his place. They all met at RISD, > Rhode Island School of Design. > -josh > ______________________________________________________________ > > 3. Roxy Music at The Tweeter Center, July 19th, > i have excellent tix at cost > > contact me directly at GasHeart@aol.com if you > want excellent tix at cost for > this soldout show. defined glamrock in the > early seventies, and bryan ferry > is one of the best singers on the planet today, > a real crooner in the style > of the 30's. all the original members are > touring after a 20 year hiatus, > except for the ephemeral brian eno. this show > will be a masterpiece. > -josh > > ______________________________________________________________ > > 4. OVAL, German music from intentionally > scratched cd's, at The Rotunda this > Friday, June 29th, tomorrow > > > independent music > > concerts at the venue "The Rotunda" , > operated by R5 > > Productions / Sean Agnew > > . The Rotunda located at 4012 Walnut Street > in the University > > City Section of > > Philadelphia, PA. For more information on The > Rotunda > > project, please visit > > www.r5productions.com > > > > *THIS* Friday June 29th 7:00PM > > OVAL / GLASS CANDY AND THE SHATTERED THEATRE > > (Tickets Available Now At Spaceboy Music and > On-Line) > > > > OVAL (thrill jockey recs) > > Although Oval are perhaps more well-known > for how they make > > their music than > > for the music they actually make, the German > experimental > > electronic trio > > have provided an intriguing update of some > elements of avant-garde > > composition in combination with techniques of > digital sound > > design, resulting > > in some of the most original, if somewhat > challenging > > electronic music of the > > contemporary scene. Originally composed of > Markus Popp, > > Sebastian Oschatz, > > and Frank Metzger, Oval gradually became the > work of just > > Popp, with Metzger > > providing most of the visual and design work. > The bulk of > > Popp's work, > > incorporates > > elements of what could be described as > "prepared compact > > disc" - manually > > marred and scarified CDs played and sampled > for the > > resultant, somewhat > > randomly patterned rhythmic clicking. Layered > together with > > subtle, sparse > > melodies and quirky electronics, the results > are often as > > oddly musical as > > they are just plain odd! > > Although a rung below marginal in their home > country > > and even more > > obscure in the States, Oval's remixes of > Chicago post-rock > > group Tortoise > > brought them in contact with American > audiences. > > > GLASS CANDY AND THE SHATTERED THEATRE > (k/vermin scum) > > Glass Candy and the Shattered Theatre are > the recondite > > nucleus of trauma > > central. Too severe to be glam, way too art > damaged to be > > goth, this 45 is > > like; I don't know what the other side is: a > lesion of a > > ballad, a disco > > contusion; an epic. > > Candy is a band > > that is just begging to become a cult legend > amongst the art-rock, > > post-hardcore kids. Beautiful woman singer, > fancy clothes, > > make up, and still > > a very sincere talent and love of their > craft. Combining only > > the purest > > elements of new wave, no wave, glam, goth, > electro disco, and > > cabaret with > > the highest achievements in rock fashion. > > ___________________________________________________________ > > 5. BILLY IDOL AT ELECTRIC FACTORY, AUGUST 3 > > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: > > SFX MUSIC PHILADELPHIA > > Presents > > > BILLY IDOL > > > > Coming To > > > > ELECTRIC FACTORY > > > > Friday, August 3 * 9 p.m. * $25 (Day of show: > $28) * 21 and over only > > > > ON SALE THIS SATURDAY 6/30/01 AT NOON! > > > _______________________________________________________ > > 6. Gina Renzi presents-----A night of fusing > the classical with the > experiment, > the dance instinct with the zone-out desire, at > the CEC, Sunday, July 8th > > > Please spread the word, list this in your > newsletters, attend the show if you > live in/near philly (or feel like driving for a > rare show), etc etc. > Thanks. > > Sunday, July 8 > @CEC, 3500 Lancaster Avenue (right off of > Drexel's campus, near U of Penn. > too), Philadelphia 19104, 1 block and a half > from the Market-Frankford Blue > Line > > 7pm-11pm. $6. All ages. Free snacks. > +Home made visuals via slides & random video > wackery. > -----A night of fusing the classical with the > experiment, > the dance instinct with the zone-out desire > > CONVOLUTION (NYC, Barcelona): progeny of Mark > Cunningham (key player in New > York No Wave scene, was in Mars, Don King > (which at points included Arto > Lindsay and Pere Ubu's Tony Maimone), Thee > Magesty, worked with Thirwell, etc > etc.) & Silvia Mestres (Barcelona artist). > instruments: deeply distorted > guitar, breathy vocals, trumpet, synth. Sounds > like: balloon animals > mid-contortion, Latin Jazz, rainy island nights > locked inside of a haunted > house, and the hot & cold soundtrack to an > ever-morphing poetry book. > Incidentally, Mark & Silvia contributed sounds > to a CD book of William > Blake's poetry. More info: > http://www.arrakis.es/~silmes/convolution.html > (some tour info has yet to be updated). If you > feel adventurous and can read > Basque (i know, those crazy Spaniards): > http://www.amanitarecords.com/ertz/convolution.htm > convolution(math.): The behavior of a linear, > continuous-time, time-invariant > system with input signalx(t) and output signal > y(t) is described by the > convolution integral > > FURSAXA (Philadelphia): brainchild of Tara > Burke (solo and with Grant Acker & > Matt Shiley), formerly of Clock Strikes > Thirteen, formerly of Ted Casterline > and his Perfectly Perfect Pieces of Fruit, > formerly of the Siltbreeze band > UN. Instruments used when performing live: > casio keyboard, farfisa organ, > haunting vocals, "bells" made from empty, cut > fire extinguishers, and more. > The sounds whirling about remind me of a Druid > ceremony, lush vocals and rich > melody abounding. By the way, Tara's CD is > titled _Mandrake_, which further > reminds me of spells and grimoires of times > past. In a spell book, I once > read of the mandrake: "In order to gather this > plant without being > killed...the soil around the root is loosened, > preferably with a silver > trowel. Then a stray dog is tied by its leg to > the root and enticed by > promised meat to pull up the root. As the > mandrake is torn from the earth it > utters a terrible shriek. If the gatherer does > not block his ears or sound a > horn, he or she will go insane at the sound." > nice thought, eh. more info & > pictures: > http://www.simpletone.com/pacman/artists/tara_burke/ > > MURCURY (NJ, Philadelphia): Murcury's most > recent appearance was at > Tryptic's premiere at Silk City. He rubs drum > n bass with jazz' taunts soul > with talk radio voices; and spikes hip hop with > religious testimonials. His > DJ work is brilliant yet lighthearted and goes > far beyond the mere jukebox > work many DJs use. > > Additional local act to be announced shortly. > > This is a Gina event, so contact Gina Renzi: > Mistsojorn@aol.com > > _______________________________________________________________ > > 7. CALL FOR PERFORMING ARTISTS; P POWER > PERFORMANCE PROJECT, FEMALE SUPERHERO > THEMED > > CALL FOR PERFORMING ARTISTS > > PERFORM IN P POWER PERFORMANCE PROJECT'S > FALL 2001 PHILADELPHIA FUNDRAISERS!!! > > SEEKING PERFORMANCE WORKS WITH THE THEME, > CONTENT OR CHARACTERS OF > WOMAN/GIRL AS ULTRA-POWERFUL SUPER BEING. > CALLING ALL SUPER HEROINES, > SUPERGIRLS, SUPER WOMEN AND SUPERHUMAN FEMALES. > ELIGIBLE ARTISTS INCLUDE > THOSE WORKING IN DANCE, MUSIC, FILM, > PERFORMANCE ART, PUPPETRY, THEATER, > INTERDISCIPLINARY AND/OR HYBRID FORMS. ARTISTS > WITH DIVERSE AND > EXPERIMENTAL BACKGROUNDS ARE ENCOURAGED TO > APPLY. WE WANT YOU TO PERFORM IN > SUPPORT OF OUR INTERNATIONAL LEGION OF CAPES!!! > > Please respond to the following questions on a > separate sheet of paper and > submit (along with optional support materials), > postmarked no later than > August 15, 2001. > > Forward applications to: > J. Dellecave > > - Complete contact information (Name, address, > phone #, email) > - When can you perform in October, November & > December 2001? > - What is the name of your super heroine, super > girl or super woman? > - What are her super powers? > - Title of piece, genre and length (15 minute > maximum, less than 10 minutes > preferred). > - Representation of past accomplishments (i.e. > biography, artists statement, > intergalactic identification card, resume, ray > gun, reviews, etc.) > - Optional VHS work sample and description of > work sample, include SASE for > return of tape. > > Questions or more information? > Contact ppowerperformanceproject@hotmail.com > > ______________________________________________________ > > 8. Actor, Rockets Redglare dead > > Actor, Rockets Redglare dead, was in a lot of > independent films, character > actor, was in several jim jarmusch > films,....and he was a character, too. he > literally owed thousands of people in new > york's east vilage 5 or 10 dollars. > see more info, > http://eastvillage.about.com/citiestowns/midlanticus/eastvillage/cs/deadcelebr > > ities/index.htm > > _____________________________________________________________ > > 9. photography darkroom co-op forming? > > and from Joy in west philly...... > > hey i have a black n white photographer ISO a > dark room > she lives in west philly... > > maybe she'd like some sort of co-op type thing > or a community dark room > or something... i dunno. > > please get back to me pronto with some ideas! > > > tanx! > > i'm emailing you because i think you'd know... > > joytoy13@hotmail.com > > ______________________________________________________________ > > 10. Implosion at 10th and Poplar, Sunday at > 8am, will be on channel 6 TV > > this Sunday, July 1st, at 8 am there will be a > building implosion....of the > Cambridge Housing Projects, located south of > Girard, but looks like the > center of North Philly, knocking these things > down will help the whole area > around there. go scope it out before they blow > it up, between 9th and 11th > sts., from poplar to girard. watch the > implosion live, or watch it on TV. it > will only take about 20 seconds, tape it if > you're not up that early on a > Sunday morning. > -josh > > ____________________________________________________________ > > well that's all for now > it's much too hot > microsoft split reversed by court > and to be filed under "you heard it here > first", North Dakota wants to change > its name to Dakota, but South Dakota would > still be called South Dakota > > any add/deletes....or event info....email me at > GasHeart@aol.com > > Josh Cohen > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:40:28 -0700 > From: Dodie Bellamy > > Subject: summer poetry workshop > > Hi Folks, > > I'm going to be teaching a grad poetry workshop > for San Francisco > State's second summer session: > > CW 0804, ADVANCED POETRY WRITING, 16-JUL-01 - > 19-AUG-01 > > It meets five Monday and Wednesday nights from > 6 to 10, with breaks > included. It'll be a pretty straightforward, > relaxed workshop, and > will include readings and presentations from > the Norton Anthology of > Postmodern Poetry. > > SF State workshops are normally very difficult > to get into, but since > it's the summer, enrollment is more open, and I > have lots of leeway > on who I admit. In other words, you don't have > to be enrolled at > State to take this class. If anybody's > interested, please > backchannel me. > > Information about SF State can be found at > http://www.sfsu.edu > > Best, > Dodie > > ------------------------------ > > End of POETICS Digest - 27 Jun 2001 to 29 Jun > 2001 (#2001-95) > ************************************************************* ===== ...I am a real poet. My poem is finished and I haven't mentioned orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES. [from "Why I Am Not A Painter" by Frank O'Hara] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:15:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: PATRICK HERRON and ELLEN ZWEIG reading and video (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII --- Multi-Literary Event at the Flying Saucer Cafe! Nada, Alan, and Azure are pleased to announce another event in a new reading/video/film/performance series in Brooklyn at The Flying Saucer Cafe at 494 Atlantic Avenue, between Third Avenue and Nevins, Brooklyn Tuesday, July 10, 8:00 p.m.: ******PATRICK HERRON and ELLEN ZWEIG****** Reading and Video PATRICK HERRON lives outside Chapel Hill, NC where he is a data programmer and interface designer. Patrick's digital and textual works have appeared in places such as Rhizome.org, README, Oasia Press, VeRT, and in the recently released _100 Days: An Anthology_, a collection of poems on the Bush presidency (Barque Press). Patrick has recently completed two volumes of poetry, one a conceptual work, and the other, a loose collection. He is also working on a poem-play loosely based upon Captain Ahab and Oedipus. He asks that if he ever begins to sound like a voice from NPR that he be "put to sleep" even if he already is sleeping. ELLEN ZWEIG is an artist who works with text, audio, video, performance and installation. In her installations, she uses optics to create camera obscuras, video projection devices, and miniature projected illusions. She has presented work in Europe, Australia and the U.S and has received two NEA grants. She was recently an artist-in-residence in the Interactive Telecommunications Program at NYU, creating a collaborative performance over Internet2 with MIT. She was an artist-in-residence at MIT in 2000, where she created a serial performative narrative on the Internet. Among other projects are the permanent installation of a camera obscura at the Exploratorium in San Francisco and the recently completed novel, Mendicant Erotics, which began as the radio-play that was commissioned by ABC Australia. ======================================== HOW TO GET THERE: Take the 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or D or Q to the Atlantic Subway stop and walk underground to the Pacific Street exit (at the N or R or M Pacific Street Stop) or take the B or N or R or M - in any case, go out the Pacific Street Exit (right exit), take a right - at the end of the block you will be on Atlantic Ave. Take a left on Atlantic, and about two and a half blocks down, between Third and Nevins, you will find the Flying Saucer Cafe. $3 donation. ---- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 00:55:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ray Bianchi Subject: Re: looking for translators MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When you need German, or Portuguese drop me a line sorry R ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Webster Schultz" To: Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 1:46 PM Subject: looking for translators I'm looking for people who translate innovative poetry from Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, Cambodian....Tinfish will be doing an Asian-focused issue (#12) because the covers have come in demanding text that runs right to left. This "error" demands an issue! Feel free to backchannel. Susan Schultz ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:53:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: anti-laureate Comments: To: Robert Archambeau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit nominations... Kamau Brathwaite René Depestre Adonis Abdellatif Laâbi Mohammed Dib >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:15:53 -0500 >From: Robert Archambeau >Subject: ANTI-LAUEREATE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA > >Okay, folks, I'm taking this Anti-Laureate idea global. > >In the tradition of the Russian Belyi prize for unrecognized literature, >the award will take the >form of one bottle of vodka, along with an announcement of the winner in >this summer's edition >of Samizdat (which features Michael Heller and Belgian Surrealism). > >Add to that the possible printing of a limited edition chapbook by the >winner from Samizdat Editions. > >Send your nominations to me at archambeau@lfc.edu until July 3, and I'll >annouce the winner >of the first Anti-Laureate competion to the list on July 4th. > >All poets are eligible (non-US poets too), except those with Iowa MFAs, >Pulitzer Prizes, or >strong personal ties to Helen Vendler. > >Nominees so far are: > > >John M. Bennett > >Karl Kempton > >Will Inman > >Alan Sondheim > >Ron Silliman > >Kathy Ernst > >Richard Kostelanetz > >Alice Notley > >and (my nominee) Pierre Joris > >(who has the added alure of being from Luxembourg, a country >grossly underrepresented among U.S. Poets Laureate). ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 00:56:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ray Bianchi Subject: Re: Poets in Film MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey some help I am moving to Princeton, NJ and I am looking for poets, any suggestions? Beers are on me. ( RL Bianchi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Stosuy" To: Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 11:10 AM Subject: Re: Poets in Film > has anyone mentioned henry fool? > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 00:54:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ray Bianchi Subject: Re: Poets and Autobiographies Comments: To: thomas/swiss MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pablo Neruda's "Vida"is excellent, Also Thomas Merton's recently Published Journals are very nice especially the pre-monastic stuff nice interplay between him, Van Doren, Ferlinghetti and Laughlin R ----- Original Message ----- From: "thomas/swiss" To: Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 11:56 AM Subject: Poets and Autobiographies Friends, I'm trying to line up a list of the "best" autobiographies by poets -- from, say, the 1920s onwards, but with special emphasis on those published since the 1950s. Can you help with some titles? And help, too, by saying briefly why you are suggesting the book--what does it do well or poorly? Many thanks. --Thom Swiss ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 01:00:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ray Bianchi Subject: Re: ANTI-LAUEREATE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit what about George W Bush? HA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Halvard Johnson" To: Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 12:04 PM Subject: Re: ANTI-LAUEREATE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA > I move that the nominations be closed. > > Hal Colourless green ideas sleep furiously. > --Noam Chomsky > > Halvard Johnson > =============== > email: halvard@earthlink.net > website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvardjohnson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 15:27:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Re: Iowa and the Anti-Laureate Comments: To: archambeau@hermes.lfc.edu In-Reply-To: <3B4209E1.2A9E24CF@lfc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Bob: One of the assumptions I think is questionable is that the anti-laureate would be elected by acclaim (as representing a desired countercultural order). Actually, the anti-laureate could only be confirmed by a grudge, in the sense that we grudge him/her the position. "Oh, I guess it would be OK with me if X were anti-laureate; I could live with that." Not, by any means, I acclaim X: my representative. Envy and misgiving are central to the politics of the anti-laureate. Some of the nominations, I think, have taken that into account. By the way, I think you have to remove Anselm Hollo from the list. He taught at Iowa, as have Bob Perelman, Kathleen Fraser, and Ann Lauterbach. All should be disqualified from serving as anti-laureate. There could not be an anti-laureateship in memory of Ted Berrigan, either. We await the opportunity to contest the winner. BW At 01:07 PM 7/3/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Barrett, > >An interesting analysis. Of course all the true anti-laureates would be >against anti-laureateship, since counter-consecration would by >definition be a self-consuming artefact of the culture industry. > >For the hell of it, I think I'll run this competition every year (winner >announced on the fourth of July), with new rules of inclusion/exclusion >each year, as a way of drawing attention to mechanisms of selection. > >Next year I might limit the competition to graduates of Iowa, winners of >the Pulitzer Prize, and close personal friends of Helen Vendler. This >would make for an interesting meeting of nominee pool and voting pool. > >(Of course I'd have to run this by the High Commission in Davos). > >Best, > >Bob ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 19:52:48 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: komninos zervos Subject: Re: Laureate In-Reply-To: <3B3D5FAE.4F2E332C@medaille.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Wouldn't Amiri Baraka be cool. > >If he considered George Sr. to be a reefer -- "people get high on >him" -- what is his son? A JD & Coke hit with a tab of acid? > >Ted Pelton i nominate jas h duke ok ok he's australian you'll say. and oh he's dead. well it doesn't matter anyway, we all have our faves. komninos ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 07:16:01 -0400 Reply-To: bkrogers@catskill.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bertha Rogers Subject: Re: WORD THURSDAYS SPEAKING THE WORDS TOUR In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE July 3, 2001 Contact: Bertha Rogers, 607-746-7306 WORD THURSDAYS AND ANDES FRIENDS OF THE LIBRARY TO HOST SUMMER SPEAKING THE WORDS TOUR Treadwell=96Word Thursdays and the Andes Friends of the Library will co-host a Summer Speaking the Words tour on Thursday, July 12 and Friday, July 13. On July 12, at 7: p.m., Word Thursdays will present, after its regular open reading, poet Ellen Peckham and performance poet Mikhail Horowitz and musician Gilles Malkine at Bright Hill Farm, 6430 County Highway 16, three miles south of Treadwell and 2 miles north of the West Delhi Church. Ms. Peckham and Mr. Horowitz and Mr. Malkine will then tour on Friday, July 13, at 7:30 p.m., to Andes, to read at the Andes Library Association, Route 28, Andes. A resident of the Catskills since 1967, Mikhail Horowitz is the author of Big League Poets (City Lights, 1987); a collection of collages and captions) and The Opus of Everything in Nothing Flat (Outloud/Red Hill, 1993); jazz poems and selected performance pieces). Mr. Horowitz has performed throughout the Hudson Valley and all over the country for more than 25 years. A CD of his Jurassic jazz fables and Oulipoulian odes, The Blues of the Birth, is available from Euphoria Jazz. Horowitz and Gilles Malkine, a guitarist who played with Tim Hardin and appeared at the original Woodstock Festival, have been performing together since 1989, at literary raps, Shakespearean blues, arcane parodies, and political satire at the Bumbershoot Festival in Seattle, the Belleayre Festival in the Catskills, the annual convention of the United Auto Workers in Onnaway, Michigan, and clubs, colleges, and correctional facilities throughout the Northeast. Their CD, Live, Jive, and Over 45, has been played on regional radio. Ellen Peckham (who until 2000 signed her prints E. Stoepel Peckham) was born in 1938 in Rochester, NY. She is a poet and visual artist and has read, published, and exhibited across the US and in Europe and Latin America. She frequently uses both art forms in a single work, the text decorating and explicating, the image illuminating. She is co-founder, with her husband, Anson, of Atelier A/E, the first gallery to open in the Chelsea arts area and, both for the Atelier and for other organizations, has judged and curated many shows. Her poetry and art have been published in Rattapallax, Show and Tell, Providence: Studies in Western Civilization, the anthology Mightier than the Sword, Off the Coast, Poetry Now, East of Sunrise, The Literary Review, and Hayden=92s Review. She has read her work throughout New York State. She has exhibited at the Collage and Assemblage Society, NY; Matrix International, Sacramento, CA; the BHP Speaking the words Word & Image Art Exhibit, the National Collage Society, the Katonah Museum, the Los Angeles Print Society, Guild Hall, East Hampton, and Silvermine Guild Arts Center, CT. Word Thursdays/Bright Hill Press readings are sponsored in part by the New York State Council on the Arts, the National Endowment for the Arts, and by Word Thursdays/Bright Hill Press members and friends. The Friends of the Andes Library readings are sponsored in part by Poets and Writers, Inc., through a grant it has received from NYSCA. Refreshments will be served at each event. For more information, and for directions, call Word Thursdays at 607-746-7306 (email:WORDTHUR@CATSKILL.NET or Judy Garrison at 845-676-3533. Word Thursdays may also be visited on the New York State Literary Curators Web Site, http://www.nyslittree.org, where a complete schedule of readings and events for the 2001 season may be found. -------------------30------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 07:18:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: Re: Anti-Laureate In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I nominate (even though I've already voted -- how anti is THAT?) Russell Atkins. And I nominate the fine people at Crayon for bringing Mr. Atkins to my attention. (See issue 2.) Arielle __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 09:20:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: MIAMI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --On Wednesday, July 04, 2001, 2:02 AM -0400 "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8d)" wrote: " This message was originally submitted by sondheim@PANIX.COM to the POETICS list " at LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU. You can approve it using the "OK" mechanism, " ignore it, or repost an edited copy. The message will expire automatically and " you do not need to do anything if you just want to discard it. Please refer to " the list owner's guide if you are not familiar with the "OK" mechanism; these " instructions are being kept purposefully short for your convenience in " processing large numbers of messages. " " ----------------- Original message (ID=3236B26A) (77 lines) ------------------- " Received: (qmail 8898 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2001 06:02:47 -0000 " Received: from mail3.panix.com (166.84.0.167) " by listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 4 Jul 2001 06:02:47 -0000 " Received: from panix3.panix.com (panix3.panix.com [166.84.0.228]) " by mail3.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDA42981D6 " for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 02:02:46 -0400 (EDT) " Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by panix3.panix.com (8.8.8/8.7.1/PanixN1.0) with ESMTP id CAA01885 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 02:02:46 -0400 (EDT) " X-Authentication-Warning: panix3.panix.com: sondheim owned process doing -bs " Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 02:02:46 -0400 (EDT) " From: Alan Sondheim " To: Poetics " Subject: MIAMI " Message-ID: " Errors-To: sondheim@panix.com " MIME-Version: 1.0 " Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII " " - " " " MIAMI " " " looking down:your mouth opens and closes, a fish suffocating, exhausted " gills:you're standing, you're standing on a street corner:at your " breasts:at your breasts " " your lips make no sense, you're mouthing nothing: MIAMI!:they sing: MIAMI! " they sing: MIAMI!:you lift your jacket in the warm night beneath the " streetlight::you look down, your breasts, no one looks " " you look down, your breasts, no one looks " you look down, your breasts, no one looks " " you're naked, turning and twisted, are you having a bad dream: " MIAMI?:seeing into you, taping your every move:you're inside the " plate-glass window, i'm on the balcony:your legs twisted you approach the " window:your legs twisted you approach the window " " your legs taut, twisted you approach the window " your legs taut, twisted you approach the window " " you open your mouth to speak, i can't hear you:every inch of your naked " body, you turn your head and look at me: MIAMI!:you move closer, you " see me, you move up to the window:you open your mouth, MIAMI!: " " open your mouth, MIAMI! " your dirty open mouth, MIAMI! " " you'll catch too much sunburn, MIAMI!:your dress is above your waist, your " panties showing, your breasts exposed:you're lying there, thanking me, " i've taken you in:you'll catch too much sunburn, MIAMI!:you'll catch too " much sunburn, MIAMI! " " too much sunburn, MIAMI! " too much sunburn, MIAMI! " " i'm taping you, ashamed, embarrassed, the camera closes in between your " legs:i notice the wedding ring, you admit everything, you're crying, your " legs parted:now you're naked, the dress bundled around your waist:your " beautiful parted legs:your beautiful parted legs " " in the heavy sun, in the dark sun, in the burned sun, in the violent " sun:you're dreaming, you're spacing out, you're thinking of whole wide " worlds:i turn away quickly, the camera searching out your face:: " " come home with me, in the heavy sun, in the dark sun, " in the burned out sun, " in the violent sun! " " the burned out sun, MIAMI! " the burned out sun, MIAMI! " " " " _ " ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:00:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lease1j@CMICH.EDU Subject: Boston Poetry Marathon (July 19-22, 2001) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BOSTON POETRY MARATHON = at the Art Institute of Boston (700 Beacon St=2E in Kenmore Square) Thursday=2C July 19th =97 7pm to 10pm Fred Moten o Wanda Phipps o Lori Lubeski o Anselm Berrigan o Andrew Schelling o Joseph Lease o Laura Mullen o John Yau Friday=2C July 20th =97 7pm to 10pm Prageeta Sharma o Donna de la Perriere o Michael Franco o Edward = Foster o Thomas Sayers Ellis o David Shapiro o Cole Swensen o = Fanny Howe Saturday=2C July 21st =97 12pm to 5pm = Karen Wizer o Sean Cole o Lisa Lubasch o Brendan Lorber o Maria = Damon o Devin Johnston o Brenda Iijima o John Mulrooney o Aaron = Kiely o Max Winter = Saturday=2C July 21st =97 7pm to 10pm Nicole Peyrafitte o Pierre Joris o Heather Ramsdale o David Rivard = o Tom Sleigh o Lisa Jarnot o Franz Wright o Frank Bidart = Sunday=2C July 22nd =97 12pm to 5pm Jeni Olen o Dana Ward o Elliza McGrand o Sam Cornish o Arielle = Greenberg o Danielle Legros-Georges o Nathan Hauke o Beth Woodcome= = o Jessie Stickler o Jumper Bloom o Jordan Davis Admission is free and open to the public=2E = For more info=2C contact Jim Behrle=2C Donna de la Perriere=2C and = Joseph Lease at=3A BoMa=40zensearch=2Enet =972001=97 = = ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 10:05:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: Re: Poets in Film In-Reply-To: <110.1a7513c.286dff56@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I didn't care much for HIGH ART myself, but it does qualify as "Poets in Film" -- Ally Sheedy having published a slender volume of verse some years ago -- She's week four in my celebrity remaindered poets course! " Subjects hinder talk." -- Emily Dickinson Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 119 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 12:37:36 -0500 Reply-To: archambeau@hermes.lfc.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Archambeau Organization: Lake Forest College Subject: CLOSING OF ANTI-LAUREATE POLLS MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Okay, folks -- as they say in Florida, the polls are closed. (And I apologize to the entire list on behalf of those who sent their votes not to me but to the list, clogging the e-ways and compromising the sanctity of the secret ballot). The United States High Commission on Anti-Laureateship will now retire to its library cubicle to count votes and sneak a cigarette. Robert Archambeau Acting High Commissioner (which is better than a commissioner acting high) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:20:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jennifer calkins Subject: contact for Camille Guthrie MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I am looking for a way to contact Camille Guthrie. Please backchannel jdcalkins2001@yahoo.com Thanks __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 14:51:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Camille Martin Subject: Hannah's visions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm interested in Hannah Weiner's poetry & her ability to see words (& hear voices, see visions) as a neurological phenomenon. I'm wondering, for example, whether it might be related to synesthesia (as Richard Cytowic describes it in his work _The Man Who Tasted Shapes_). If anyone would like to respond to the following questions, I'd appreciate the dialogue. Were any psychological/cognitive studies performed to study Hannah's gift? I wonder whether there was any curiosity on the part of neuroscientists to determine why she saw projected words. I understand that she took LSD, at least before she began to have hallucinations of color and image, as her book The Fast documents, & I wonder whether/how this was related to the emergence of her ability. Was Hannah herself interested in her ability from a neurological perspective? If so, did she write about it or discuss it? I read that she was diagnosed with schizophrenia ... I'm less interested in the label of an illness than I am with what was happening in her brain during her visions. Hope this doesn't sound too biologically reductive. It's one aspect of her that makes me curious. I'd appreciate any comments on this or sources to read. Also: does anyone have copies of the journals she wrote after The Fast (Country Girl, Pictures and Early Words, and Big Words)? Any idea how I can get a copy of these works? Thanks. Camille Camille Martin 7725 Cohn St. New Orleans, LA 70118 (504) 861-8832 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 22:17:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sarah Mangold Subject: Scout #2 is Out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scout Magazine is pleased to announce the release of Issue #2. Featuring new work by: Leonard Brink, Laynie Browne, Cheryl Burket, Arielle Greenberg, John Latta, Rachel Mangold, Aaron McCollough, John Olson, Cheryl Pallant, Jamie Perez, Brian Strang, Nico Vassilakis, and Julie Young. Plus an interview with Ben Marcus by Leland Gonzalez and a review of Norma Cole's CROSSCUT UNIVERSE by John Olson. Available through Open Books in Seattle or by sending $6 (checks made out to Sarah Mangold) Scout c/o Sarah Mangold 1819 18th Avenue Seattle, WA 98122 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 09:37:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Wheeler Subject: Susan Wheeler / Claudia Rankine Reading Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" For those of you in New York City, Claudia Rankine and I will be reading Thursday, July 12 at 7 pm at the Center for Book Arts, 28 West 27th Street on the 3rd floor, between 6th Avenue and Broadway. Number there is 212-481-0295. Snacks after. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:18:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r...all star voting.... ....in the balloting for greatest artist, short-stop (stars & stripes forevers), poet, & American...i cast my vote for Thom Jefferson & Mr. Louis Armstrong...one would have been imposs. sans le autre....DRn... ...4th July..WellSprings House..Ashfield Lake..Mass...N.E...America ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:30:02 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: CLOSING OF ANTI-LAUREATE POLLS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/4/01 9:26:25 AM, archambeau@HERMES.LFC.EDU writes: << The United States High Commission on Anti-Laureateship will now retire to its library cubicle to count votes and sneak a cigarette. >> I think we've hit upon an important criterion for the anti-appointment. The anti-winner MUST be a smoker, and must smoke like a barn fire at all of the anti-meetings. Candidates who don't smoke are just too clean and good and correct and healthy and should be off the list. Come to think of it, the anti-Poet Laureate should not even be a poet. So maybe Billy Collins wins this one too. That would make him a poet and not a poet, one carrying the trace of the other. Jeez, I gotta split the "differance," read a comic book or somethin'. Best, Bill William James Austin.com Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 19:01:46 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dubravka Djuric Subject: petition for macedonia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable mz friend elizabeta seleva, who teaches comparative lit. in skopje, = capital of macedonia, fwd this to me, and i forward this to you! > www.gopetition.com is hosting a petition entitled Petition for = Macedonia. >=20 > I've already been to the site and signed it. It only took a minute.=20 >=20 > The link below takes you straight to the petition: >=20 > http://www.gopetition.com/info.php?petid=3D309 >=20 > Regards, > Elizabeta Sheleva >=20 >=20 > -------------------------------------------------- > gopetition.com is the worlds leading apolitical, free online petition = hosting service. > =20 > http://www.gopetition.com > -------------------------------------------------- >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 07:34:55 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: Re: anti-laureate nominations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good on you, Marcella. I nominate Linh Dinh, an "American" poet who lives in "Saigon." Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marcella Durand" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 3:46 AM Subject: anti-laureate nominations > Hey guys, > > The general gender and racial composition of the nominees for anti-poet > laureate so far are, unfortunately, shaking up to be approximately that of > the poet laureate list. I think we all need to be more reactionary on this > front and invert these numbers. Therefore, I nominate Bernadette Mayer, > Harryette Mullen and Cecilia Vicuna. > > Best, > Marcella ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 10:51:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cassie Lewis Subject: Re: Poets in Film Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kevin K- Thanks for the Crowe info!! Dorothy Porter, Australian poet, has had one of her books made into a film recently, by young Australian director Samantha Lang. I think it was "The Monkey's Mask" but I'm not 100% sure. Best from Cassie Lewis _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 07:35:36 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: Re: looking for translators MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks--when the Germans move to the Pacific, then we can talk. Well, they did. So if you have any Samoan-German work to send my way, please do!! Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Bianchi" To: Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 6:55 PM Subject: Re: looking for translators > When you need German, or Portuguese drop me a line sorry > R > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Susan Webster Schultz" > To: > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 1:46 PM > Subject: looking for translators > > > I'm looking for people who translate innovative poetry from Japanese, > Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, Cambodian....Tinfish will be doing an > Asian-focused issue (#12) because the covers have come in demanding text > that runs right to left. This "error" demands an issue! > > Feel free to backchannel. > > Susan Schultz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:21:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Silem Mohammad" Subject: Re: Iowa and the Anti-Laureate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Barrett Watten writes: >One of the assumptions I think is questionable is that the anti-laureate >would be elected by acclaim (as representing >a desired countercultural order). Actually, the anti-laureate >could only be confirmed by a grudge, in the sense that we >grudge him/her the position. "Oh, I guess it would be OK >with me if X were anti-laureate; I could live with that." Not, by >any means, I acclaim X: my representative. Envy and >misgiving are central to the politics of the anti-laureate. I think this is right, and in fact, I wd take it a step further, by saying that the anti-laureate ought to be appointed according to a principle of active distaste: not just "I guess it wd be OK," but "Ugh, yes, that's the nominee most likely to unsettle / offend / annoy as many different factions as possible." Beyond mere envy & misgiving, I wd say the politics of the anti-laureate are outrage & contempt. The problem here is, how do you select a candidate that will upset both the traditional Robert Frost / Maya Angelou laureate-supporters _&_ the more "edgy" (there's a meaningless word for you) poetics-list alternoids? Hence I retract both my earlier nominations (Suzanne Sommers, whose sunshine 'n' puppies poetic is frankly hip these days, & Ficus strangulensis, whose yippie-ish mimeograph terrorism is fluxus-like enough to be taken seriously in an avant-garde context), & offer my final choice: I hereby nominate Harry Nudel. I don't know if the guy actually writes poetry, but even if he doesn't--well, you can see where I'm going ... _anti_. Yes, I know the polls are closed, but I'd say that in an anti-laureate race, the most important votes are the ones that _don't_ get counted. KSM ......................................... || K. Silem Mohammad || Literature Department || University of California Santa Cruz _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 16:35:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Retrospective of Net Art by Mark Amerika (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 15:04:13 -0500 From: Kristine Feeks To: sondheim@panix.com Subject: Retrospective of Net Art by Mark Amerika IMMEDIATE RELEASE ACA MEDIA ARTS PLAZA IN TOKYO ANNOUNCES LARGE-SCALE RETROSPECTIVE OF NET ART WORKS CREATED BY AMERICAN INTERNET ARTIST MARK AMERIKA BOULDER, Colorado, July 2, 2001 -- Digital artist, novelist and web publisher Mark Amerika, Founding Director of the Alt-X Online Network, will have his first Japanese retrospective at the ACA Media Arts Plaza in Tokyo, Japan. "Avant-Pop: The Stories of Mark Amerika" showcases much of the early work Amerika pioneered during the dot.com Nineties. The exhibition will launch on July 1, 2001 and run through September 10, 2001. Amerika, who was recently named a "Time Magazine 100 Innovator" as part of their continuing series of features on the most influential artists, scientists, entertainers and philosophers into the 21st century, is the creator or principial investigator of many Internet art projects including GRAMMATRON, PHON:E:ME, HOLO-X, ALT-X, and the recent How To Be An Internet Artist, all of which will be featured in the "Avant-Pop" exhibition in Tokyo. A complete catalogue of essays and interviews with Amerika will appear online in both English and Japanese translation. According to Amerika, "The notion of an Avant-Pop cultural practice evolved from my early work with artists, writers and critics in both America and Japan, so it's only fitting that my first major show in Tokyo would reflect this transnational cultural phenomenon and its effect on both digital art and literature." As part of the "Avant-Pop" exhibition, Amerika will be invited to Tokyo by the Graphic Arts Society of Japan where he will present his work to the general public. Tracing Amerika's rapid emergence into the contemporary art world, web mavens, art critics, historians and web surfers the world over have seen his multi-media narratives work their way into various art and writing scenes while being distributed through a wide array of formats including hypertext, 3-D VRML environments, mp3 concept albums, ebooks, Palm Pilots, live digital dramaturgy, and highly-acclaimed published novels. His GRAMMATRON project (http://www.grammatron.com) was developed while he was a Creative Writing Fellow and Lecturer on Network Publishing and Hypertext at Brown University. Released in June 1997, it is one of the most widely accessed art sites on the World Wide Web and in 2000 was one of the first works of Internet art to ever be selected for the prestigious Whitney Biennial of American Art. Amerika was recently appointed to the Fine Arts faculty at the University of Colorado at Boulder where he has been developing a cutting-edge Digital Art curriculum. He is presently producing a new cross-media narrative project, FILMTEXT, that will be a hybridized online/offline "story experience" created as a net art site, a museum installation, a multimedia ebook, and a series of live performances. One version of FILMTEXT will appear in another upcoming retrospective of his work at the ICA in London later this year. The "Avant-Pop: The Stories of Mark Amerika" exhibition will be available to the public at http://plaza.bunka.go.jp/amerika.htm, as of July 1st, and is sponsored by the Computer Graphics Society of Japan and the Agency for Cultural Affairs in Japan. The show is being curated by noted Net Art curator You Minowa. For more information on this retrospective exhibition please send email to mcmogatk@po.sphere.ne.jp For information on Mark Amerika or to schedule interviews please send email to Kristine@altx.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 17:24:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Mutilated Quasi-Symmetrical String Noise with Performative InterferenceTending Towards the Explanation of "Wednesday" at a Picnic! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Mutilated Quasi-Symmetrical String Noise with Performative Interference Tending Towards the Explanation of "Wednesday" at a Picnic! Oh see, , Susan Graham, Nikuko, Julu, Alan, and Azure, playfully arranged on the lawn in what can only be described as a stunning pattern. k8% r 2 sed 's/f/fg/g' zz >> yy k9% r 3 sed 's/g/f/g' yy >> zz k10% r 2 sed 's/f/fg/g' zz >> yy k11% r 3 sed 's/g/f/g' yy >> zz k12% r 2 sed 's/f/fg/g' zz >> yy k13% r 3 sed 's/g/f/g' yy >> zz k14% r 2 sed 's/f/fg/g' zz >> yy k15% r 3 sed 's/g/f/g' yy >> zz fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg (END) fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf g fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf g fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg Oh, what fun! fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf g fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf g fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf g fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg Hello everyone, a lovely day! fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg We are so very fun and nicely here! fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg ^G Get Help ^O WriteOut ^R Read File ^Y Prev Pfg ^K Cut Text ^C Cur Pos ^X Exit ^J Justifgfgy ^W Where is ^V Next Pfg ^U UnCut Text^T To Spell Please pass the radish, smiles Nikuko, meaning "daikon" in her native tongue, but it may be another vegetable entirely! fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf g fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg ^G Get Help ^O WriteOut ^R Read File ^Y Prev Pfg ^K Cut Text ^C Cur Pos ^X Exit ^J Justifgfgy ^W Where is ^V Next Pfg ^U UnJustifgfgy ^T To Spell Why certainly, says , Susan Graham, and did you read MIAMI! recently, this absolutely stunning book Alan has written? fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg ^G Get Help ^O WriteOut ^R Read File ^Y Prev Pfg ^K Cut Text ^C Cur Pos ^X Exit ^J Justifgfgy ^W Where is ^V Next Pfg ^U UnCut Text^T To Spell k8% r 2 sed , Oh , Susan, Alan cried, I didn't think anyone cared! But surely! 's/fgfg/fgfgfg/fg' zz >> yy k9% r 3 sed 's/fg/fgfg/fg' yy >> zz k10% r 2 sed 's/fgfg/fgfgfg/fg' zz >> yy k11% r 3 sed 's/fg/fgfg/fg' yy >> zz k12% r 2 sed 's/fgfg/fgfgf g/fg' zz >> yy k13% r 3 sed 's/fg/fgfg/fg' yy >> zz k14% r 2 sed 's/fgfg/fgfgfg/fg' zz >> yy k15% r 3 sed 's/fg/fgfg/fg' yy >> zz Search : fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg ^G Get Help ^Y FirstLine ^T LineNumber^O End ofgfg Par ^C Cancel ^V LastLine ^W Start ofgfg P Enough of this, cried Julu, spreading her lovely white frock on the ground. Ewwwww, too many ants, and I look so crispy clean! fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg (END) fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf g fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf g fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg Oh, they'll be narry a bother, Julu! fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf g fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf g fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg Don't worry, Julu! fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf g fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg Never fear, Julu! Ants are kindly-kind! fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg Jennifer, are you really , Susan Graham? fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg ^G Get Help ^O WriteOut ^R Read File ^Y Prev Pfg ^K Cut Text ^C Cur Pos ^X Exit ^J Justifgfgy ^W Where is ^V Next Pfg ^U UnCut Text^T To Spell And please pass the beets, Azure cried. Which reminds me of a song in my native tongue, said Nikuko, a fascinating repetition of beets until the whole merry group joins in! fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf g fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg ^G Get Help ^O WriteOut ^R Read File ^Y Prev Pfg ^K Cut Text ^C Cur Pos ^X Exit ^J Justifgfgy ^W Where is ^V Next Pfg ^U UnJustifgfgy ^T To Spell I do love picnics so, cried Jennifer! fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg ^G Get Help ^O WriteOut ^R Read File ^Y Prev Pfg ^K Cut Text ^C Cur Pos ^X Exit ^J Justifgfgy ^W Where is ^V Next Pfg ^U UnCut Text^T To Spell k8% r 2 sed Ah Jennifer, said Alan, we didn't know you were here! And you look so pretty pretty! 's/fgfg/fgfgfg/fg' zz >> yy k9% r 3 sed 's/fg/fgfg/fg' yy >> zz k10% r 2 sed 's/fgfg/fgfgfg/fg' zz >> yy k11% r 3 sed 's/fg/fgfg/fg' yy >> zz k12% r 2 sed 's/fgfg/fgfgf g/fg' zz >> yy k13% r 3 sed 's/fg/fgfg/fg' yy >> zz k14% r 2 sed 's/fgfg/fgfgfg/fg' zz >> yy k15% r 3 sed 's/fg/fgfg/fg' yy >> zz Search : fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg Oh, but it's the weather! cried Jennifer. Everything looks good when the humidity is just so and the fabric is quite unstarched! fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg ^G Get Help ^Y F irstLine ^T LineNumber^O End ofgfgfgfg Par ^C Cancel ^V LastLine ^W Start ofgfgfg fg P I almost think of starch as my middle name! said Nikuko. I use it on everything; even the pages I write are kept quite dry with a snap to them! I love snap and starch , said , Susan Graham! fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfg Just like the autumn, mused Julu, a beautiful autumn day... fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfg (END) It is getting late, cried Alan, always afraid of sudden rain. What shall we do? Where shall we go? I'm sure we won't be able to find our ways home in the dark. fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf g fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg I will lead you, said Nikuko, I am always good at this. With that she stood up and straighted out her crisp white frock. fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf g fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg Beautiful, said Julu! fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf g fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fg Thank you so much! said Azure and Alan as the moon began to rise. fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf g fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg Just about this time the sun began to set! fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf g fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg This has been the most wonderful holiday! fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg said Jennifer, smiling, fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg and we shall do this every Wednesday for as long fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg as we live! fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg ^G Get Help ^O WriteOut ^R Read File ^Y Prev Pfgfg ^K Cut Text ^C Cur Pos ^X Ex it ^J Justifgfgfgfgy ^W Where is ^V Next Pfgfg ^U UnCut Text^T To Spell Where does Wednesday come from, asked Nikuko? It's such an odd name; along with Saturday, Saturn's day, it has three syllables, and one never quite knows how to pronounce the middle ones. Oh, please please tell us , said , Susan Graham! fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf g fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg ^G Get Help ^O WriteOut ^R Read File ^Y Prev Pfgfg ^K Cut Text ^C Cur Pos ^X Ex it ^J Justifgfgfgfgy ^W Where is ^V Next Pfgfg ^U UnJustifgfgfgfgy ^T To Spell Try Woden! cried Julu! fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg ^G Get Help ^O WriteOut ^R Read File ^Y Prev Pfgfg ^K Cut Text ^C Cur Pos ^X Ex it ^J Justifgfgfgfgy ^W Where is ^V Next Pfgfg ^U UnCut Text^T To Spell k8% r 2 sed Yes, of course, I should have thought of that! It's Woden's Day! What a lovely picnic! And with that every last one of them, the boys neatly dressed in white pants and tiny sailor hats, and the girls in starched and unstarched clean-clean white frocks, began they're journey home! 's/fgfgfgfg/fgfgfgfgfgfg/fgfg' zz >> yy k9% r 3 sed 's/fgfg/fgfgfgfg/fgf g' yy >> zz k10% r 2 sed 's/fgfgfgfg/fgfgfgfgfgfg/fgfg' zz >> yy k11% r 3 sed 's/fgfg/fgfgfgfg/fgfg' yy >> zz k12% r 2 sed 's/fg fgfgfg/fgfgfgfgfgfg/fgfg' zz >> yy k13% r 3 sed 's/fgfg/fgfgfgfg/fgfg' yy >> zz k14% r 2 sed 's/fgfgfgfg/fg fgfgfgfgfg/fgfg' zz >> yy k15% r 3 sed 's/fgfg/fgfgfgfg/fgfg' yy >> zz And home it is! This time, really, The End! _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 17:36:12 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: plugging not me MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just received the new CD from Geoffrey Gatza's Automation Corp. The title is "John 9:25" This is admirable work. The graphics astonish. Geoff, who also created and edits Blaze, is a bit of a master on the ole' puter. The texts also taught me a few things about poetry, drama, new ways to experiment. This is a poet we should all keep an eye on. I believe that he will send a copy in some form to anyone who requests one, as long as supply lasts. Congrats Geoff! Best, Bill William James Austin.com Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 19:16:53 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: Iowa and the Anti-Laureate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed While I'm sure Barrett Watten is right that there is no shortage of envy & misgiving in the poetic rank & file (one need only read Harry Nudel's posts to be reminded of that), I don't agree that this has much to do with the anti-laureate, nor should it. The anti-laureate is an essentially anarchic gesture: making fun of the "official" post & its history (winner receives a bottle of vodka!), while attempting to represent a poet closer to the values of the literary communities that nominated her or him, & specifically the literary community of the Poetics List. (Notice I didn't say a poet *representative* of those literary communities, or of the poetics of their members). Since there is no official status, or even "honor" (in the CV sense of the term) to the position, contesting it would be a particularly pointless display of envy & misgiving. Kind of like arguing that a joke you were just told ought to have had a different punch line. As for Anselm Hollo, I pointed out his Iowa connection to the High Commissioner. So, unless the High Commissioner was particularly high at the time, I'm assuming he doesn't feel (nor do I) that this should disqualify him. Ann Lauterbach is another matter: hasn't she won a MacArthur? If so, then I believe this should disqualify her. This was also the reason I didn't nominate another of my favorite poets, Jackson Mac Low. All Hail to the anti-laureate! Let the vodka flow! Mark DuCharme _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 01:25:35 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick herron Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yevgeny Yevtushenko was the screenwriter for an agitprop/art film from 1964 called "I Am Cuba", a Russian-Cuban co-production. > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Steve Potter > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 3:18 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: info needed: poets in films > > > Pull My Daisy (starring Ginsberg, Kerouac and Corso as Groucho, Harpo and > Chico. Forget the name of the guy who plays Zeppo. Plenty of fun!) > > Naked Lunch (depicting Burroughs, Jane and Paul Bowles, Ginsberg, Keroauc > etc. at play in interzone.) > > Heartburn (I think that's the title, about Kerouac love-triangle with Neal > and Carolyn Cassady.) > > Garcia Lorca (about a guy who idolized Lorca as a boy returning > to Spain to > find the truth about his murder. Great flick!) > > Hal Hartley put out a great movie a coupla years back about the > lives of two > fictional poets that probably doesn't exactly fit your needs but is > definitely worth watching for your own pleasure. Think the title is Simon > Fool. > > on 6/19/01 11:39 AM, Austinwja@AOL.COM at Austinwja@AOL.COM wrote: > > > In a message dated 06/19/2001 12:23:56 PM, Gallaher@MAIL.UCA.EDU writes: > > > > << What comes to mind: > > > > Tom & Viv (Eliot. Hated it) > > Barfly (kinda about Bukowski. Liked it) > > Poetic Justice (not really about a poet but it does include some > > verse by Maya Angelou. Hated it) > > Mrs. Parker and the Viscious Circle (Dorothy et al. Liked it) > > Henry and June (on Miller & Nin, kinda fun, I thought) > > Il Postino (Neruda. Skiped it) > > > > --JGallaher > > ----------------------- > > For a class I will be teaching, I'd be grateful for any film titles > > that portray/dramatize/ficitonalize the lives of poets (in major-- or > > even minor roles with a fair amount of onscreen time)--esp. 20th > > century poets. Films like The Bell Jar... but what else? Many thanks! > > > > Thom Swiss > > thomas.swiss@drake.edu > >>> > > > > Total Eclipse (Rimbaud and Verlaine -- AWFUL) > > The Basketball Diaries (Jim Carroll -- not awful, but not good either) > > Gothic (Shelley and Byron -- AWFUL) > > > > There have also been a couple about Beat poets that changed the names to > > protect the innocent. Best, Bill > > > > William James Austin.com > > Koja Press.com > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 07:15:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Denise McNelly Subject: anti-laureate???? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Like Michael Amberwind, it seems to me that things in the anti-laureate election haven't been very anti thus far . . . . So, though Robert Archambeau said>>> the polls are closed.>>> I'll be as anti as I know and vote anyway >>like they did in Florida>> I support Patrick's vote for>>>araki yasusada,>>> but not >>> because when you knock on his door, there's no one home.>>> I'd bet somebody would open the door, but it wouldn't be him. and I second Jerrold's nominations for >>>Adonis and Mohammed Dib>>> who wouldn't vote for such beautiful eyes?! On third thought, just count me in for komninos' >>>> jas h duke. ok he's Australian. . .he's dead. well it doesn't matter anyway, >>> but of course such things do matter--to be as anti as possible, non-Australian, non-living, non-real and/or non-poets are precisely the sort of criteria we're seeking, right? Also, Robert, why >>>> apologize . . .compromising the sanctity . . .and sneak>>>> when non-apology, non-sanctity, blatant overtness are among those things that are truly anti ?? Yet, Robert, I do agree that a High Commissioner is better than one who's just acting high . . . . very anti that way, but >>>retire . . . to count votes >>> count???? that's not very anti! Wouldn't anti be to pull a name out of a hat? Or maybe just select the one that you yourself want? Therefore, Robert, who's the anti-winner? Denise ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:00:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: Mudlark Flash MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII New and On View: Mudlark Flash No. 12 (July 2001) R. D. Girard | Four Poems Leukemia In The Drinking Water Tet Is Nice But It's Not Christmas White On White | Priced To Move "R. D. Girard lives in Washington and Los Angeles and writes poems when he can't sleep at night." White On White In the neglected regions of capital a gentle genetic tug arcs across the shift from tactile to digital-- your face's cold fusion persists across generations of bathtub marxists and pit bosses and women wearing bespoke suits. Many years later, as you find yourself teaching in a barrio high school only to be fired for telling your students that the difference between poetry and rhetoric is the difference between orgasm and ejaculation, you will remember the day your father took you to discover ragtime--production trading eights with mechanical reproduction at the dark end of the street. The good old days live in the electric air sucked over and over through the ones and zeros punched into dusty piano rolls, in the ebbs and flows between flaccid and tumescent, in the pinstriped spokes of a spinning wheel when they begin to pinwheel backward. Needs not your own wait at the end of the end of representation. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter _________________ MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:13:52 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: RaeA100900@AOL.COM Subject: Re: European Vacation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings European List Members, I'm planning to be in Europe this December from around the 11th through the 28th. I'll be based in Prague but willing and eager to travel. If anyone knows of any place I might be able to read or of any conferences/events I should attend, please backchannel. I'm open to suggestions. Thanks for any help, Rae Armantrout ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 12:14:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Special Offer from Double Lucy Books Comments: cc: sacoxf@telocity.com, margaret@motelmag.com, yedd@aol.com, jsaidenberg@mindspring.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi everyone, Thank you for the tremendous response to Outlet (7) Heroines. We are already heading for a second printing. Meanwhile I am sending this to announce that Double Lucy will close at the end of this year, and to make a special offer to you all. Thank you! Elizabeth Special Offer from Double Lucy Books these 5 2001 Lucy publications can be yours for $12: Outlet (7) Heroines (http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page25.html) Outlet (8) Paradise (http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page26.html) Lucilles 10-12 (http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page23.html): #10 fable for little fishes, Susan Landers #11 Balcony Play, Sawako Nakayasu #12 Splitting, Arielle Greenberg checks to E.T. Jackson, sent to Double Lucy Books P.O. Box 9013 Berkeley, CA 94709 Special Offer expires September 1, 2001. P.S. Still available: Lucille # 8: Immure, Jocelyn Saidenberg. pamphlet, $2 P.P.S. More info on our decision to cease publishing is at our website; all subscribers & contributors were sent Outlet (7) last weekend; please contact me if yours doesn't arrive soon. ___________________________________________ Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page2.html ___________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 14:32:23 -0500 Reply-To: archambeau@hermes.lfc.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Archambeau Organization: Lake Forest College Subject: AND THE ANTI-LAUREATE IS... MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Presenting the award for United States Anti-Laureate is Miss Suzanne Somers... And the winner is... ANSELM HOLLO (Wild applause, accompanied by a murmur of discontent coming from Barrett Watten's table). Mr. Anselm Hollo is hereby appointed UNITED STATES ANTI-LAUREATE for the year 2001 with all the ironies and contradictions appertaining thereunto And remember, kids -- all the real dadas are against dada. With Great Sobriety and Dignity, Robert Archambeau High Commissioner United States Anti-Laureate Commission ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:28:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ethan Paquin Subject: VISIT SLOPE 11 & 12 Comments: To: ethan@slope.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SLOPE 11 & 12........special double issue ..... ..... free for all at www.slope.org with BERNSTEIN | HARVEY SIKELIANOS | TATE WHITE | ANDREWS WIER | SENOCAK and many more plus RECENT AUSTRALIAN POETRY sampler & REVIEWS of Jarnot, Eady, Maginnes and Day ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 18:27:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Introducing Microtitles (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 12:25:27 -0700 From: Talan Memmott To: beehive@percepticon.com Subject: Introducing Microtitles BeeHive Hypertext/Hypermedia Literary Journal is pleased to introduced BeeHive Microtitles. __________________________ http://microtitles.com On July 25th 2001 BeeHive Microtitles will release its first dowloadable literary projects. Microtitles Series 1 is a collection of short titles in PDF, specially formatted for your PDA. These titles can be read on the Palm Pilot using the new Adobe Acrobat Reader for the Palm OS. Thanks to this new technology you will be able to takes bits of BeeHive wherever you go! The titles in Series 1 mirror the eclectic mix of literary practices represented in the BeeHive Hypertext/Hypermedia Literary Journal, with the titles to be released on July 25th selected from the BeeHive ArcHive. Each title has been carefully formatted for maximum readability on your PDA. July 25 2001 Releases: ** RE_WORKINPR by Brian Lennon ** WHAT THE HELL IS THAT? by Thomas Zummer ** ISSUES IN PHENOMENOLOGY by Ryan Whyte BeeHive Microtitles will be adding titles to Series 1 throughout the remainder of 2001. In September REALITY DREAMS by Joel Weishaus and TOWARD ELECTRACY: a Conversation with Gregory Ulmer will be made available in the PDF for Palm Pilot format. Series 1 Microtitles will be FREE to download. In the future we will be offering titles in a variety of downloadable formats, as well as BOD (Burn On Demand) Hypermedia works on CD. Bookmark Microtitles today and be sure to return July 25th for FREE downloadable titles. http://microtitles.com __________________________ Send questions and comments to beehive@percepticon.com BeeHive Hypertext Hypermedia Literary Journal http://beehive.temporalimage.com __________________________ BeeHive Microtitles is a product of the Percepticon Corporation __________________________ PERCEPTICON CORP. PO Box 590820 San Francisco CA 94159 USA t. 415.749.2900 f. 415.749.2901 http://www.percepticon.com __________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:20:58 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Risque ][of][ N.fection" Subject: Bo-D re:all.IT.Ts ][d.reamer of coils][ Comments: To: nettime-l@bbs.thing.net, list@rhizome.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" [n.sert garbled meaning preface here// theme drivel occulding// if u can't be bothered thinking, then destruct//] ::::_____Body Realities:::::::: 1. The Bareback Boundary ][w][Ri][te][ders/// _r_: -rugged gen][otypical][ders -U.S][wollen][B portals -vivid ][neur.o][UR.L squashings in2 sublim][inal][e SQUIDing [bareback boundary riders typically rugged genotypes of various genders ][like used & blushing portals swollen N bruised][ with tendencies to squash vivid neuronal URLs into subliminal SQUIDs]. [u. get, the. idea.] [d-cypher]. 2. Agumented re:Verb.e.Rationals// - live in Wired nests and Cable Farms use][d. N.a.bused][r by d.fault.lines - use frozen sign][age][ languages - r d.reamers of coils 3. Reduction][h][is.tick Babbagers - nee.d][ing!][le N pin prick n.][per][juries - neuronal leakages and mouse-driven-trajectories - scabrous targeting N silicon spasms ---------------------------------------------------[cut here] __________________________________________rude slips ===================================[freudian solipsisms] |||||||||||||||||||||||||mutha.boarded >>>>>>>lowa case speed checks N document flickage burn +++++++++++++++smeared longings [press: =adaptation thru retreat =adapation th][o][.rough assimilation =adapation through poetic miscegenation] -----------------------------------------[snip.er fire here] [collating infodatum strands thru a megafil][igh][ter x.tracting solid punches of esoteric blocks N s.tab.licked fury a flame-baiting mess of quasi-fact N theoretical pap i weight the watchers N swim st][ickler][][p][ains of disgust a retro-revolving door with woven gigabyted panels N panicks of Academica lack-Es d-termin][ated][ed to x.ist a doppel.gang.banger switch b-tween N sub.Vurting the gloss recalling the echos of the past lifers N singed hair kobolt smells a.Rome.ahs burning my fingertips a screen stretched to the ut.most plastic gaps N renewed heart-break-dancing my amplified organs seep circ][e][uitry juice vacant mobile squares of polymer dripping text bundles N sequential pre-packaged-junkies the destruction of thumbs N the recanting of the cortex u seem to os.$ell.ate b-tween the planks the cords of the s][ewer][ystem N the needs of the sever][al][ed.... > the coils of the system N the needs of the severed < i haven't stopped. the lure is in, the caps of the .wavs still creeping, a silvered crime of corpse mailing listings N sub.s][tandard][cribe.rs who fame-dream of loss, who spout decay N dream sarcasm, drench the other in a potent mix of filth N fertile spaces, MOMAed N Fathered via the treacled, fold yrself in2 fortune, a sobering lurch. .u seem to .drink the cusp. ------break my stare----------- x.tract the lectric. sub].[-m-][mersing yr head in visceral. .carve me up .a body reality. . . .... ..... net.wurker][risque.ov.n.fection][ n.sect.ile x.cuts.x .go.here. xXXx ./. www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker .... . .??? ....... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:38:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik Notes Correction: A number of folks wrote in about sharmagne@aol.com's "Just a Cup of Coffee" but RealPoetik seems to have bungled her website, which is http://quillandparchment.com/. notes: *********************************************************************** Subject: CHUM Zoland Books is pleased (sort of) to announce the publication this July of CHUM, the sex-obsessed, scatological, deeply offensive, violent, yet oddly engaging and amusing new novel, by non-apologist and sometime-rude-dinner-guest Mark Spitzer. Library Journal: "One of the most chilling tales in modern literature . . . Strongly recommended for strong-stomached readers." Kirkus Review: "Both a sophomoric effort and a sophomoric ordeal, bleached free of literary color." Publishers Weekly: "A remarkably feeble novel . . . unimaginative scribbling." ****************************************************************** La Petite Zine #7 webdelsol.com/lpz Famous People Haiku Project Featuring | The Amazing Randi | Mojo Nixon | Matt Malloy | Bill Leverty | John Wesley Harding | Survivor II Roommate Poetry by | CA Conrad | Carrie Etter | Caitlin Grace McDonnell | Scott Edward Anderson | Tom Hartman | Coleman Hough | Catherine Daly | David Harris Ebenbach | Charles Hosier | Mike Kemp Poem-script by | Susanna Speier Novel excerpt by | Theodore Pelton Articles by | Henry Singer | Richard Eoin Nash and Doug Fitch ******************************************************************* checkout Michael Zittel's http://nycpoetry.com/RatsInAJar/INDEX.HTM, in fact, check out http://nycpoetry.com ******************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:53:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik Carson Reed RealPoetik's Independence Day Poem! By Carson Reed! Carson (lodo1@aol.com) is a 15-year veteran of the Denver poetry scene. His work has appeared in such publications as Rant, Yellow Silk, The New Censor ship, Bizara, Stick, and of course RealPoetik. 15,683 When I told T.J. I wanted to leave America, he got mad. His 16-year-old self got red in the face and he said: "Go then, have fun in your stinking foreign country with bad plumbing." When I told Jeanne I wanted to leave America, she was puzzled, she said: "Do you really think there's a better country than this one?" I said: "No, I don't think there's a better country than this one, it's just that I'm all done in with being an American. I wake up in the morning and it hits me: Oh, gosh, I have to be an American again today, this is my fifteen thousand six hundred and eighty third day of being American." Of course, it could be true that wherever I go I will still have to be an American. (I'm not familiar enough with foreigners to know if they will let me be one of them.) It may be that being an American in a foreign country will be invigorating, people will enjoy it when I complain about the plumbing, they'll laugh and say: "Zat crazy American." But I would like it better if I could wake up and be Italian or Greek. (I don't know any Greeks but I read Zorba the Greek and he seemed to like it.) When I told my mother I wanted to leave America, she said: "America will miss you." And this was a lie, of course, but a nice one that made me sad to go even though, as you can see, I haven't actually left yet. Before I go I wanted to get up here in front of everyone and say: "No hard feelings, America. You've all been really swell, and I will miss the plumbing." -- Carson Reed ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:09:56 +0000 Reply-To: anielsen@lmu.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anielsen@LMU.EDU Subject: Russell Atkins Nomination -- Poets' Autobiography MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Glad to see the name of Russell Atkins appear among our illustrious nominees -- He has a poem in the new issue of HOUSE ORGAN that just landed in my mailbox -- His short autobiography in the DLB series is one of the more interesting and enjoyable,,, a good place to learn more about this underappreciated artist -- _________________________________________________ The simple way to read all your emails at ThatWeb http://www.thatweb.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:18:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: Hannah's visions Comments: To: cmarti3@LSU.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Camille Martin wrote: > I read that she was diagnosed with schizophrenia ... I'm less interested in > the label of an illness than I am with what was happening in her brain > during her visions. . . . I'd appreciate any comments > on this or sources to read. Interest will go where'er it wilt, but--- You might find greater amplitude by not taking that label to be a "label of an ~illness"~ per se but a label of a ~condition,~ to start with,--- along the lines of (predictably) Deleuze-Guattari "Capitalism and Schizophrenia," etc., or the similarly neutral use of the term Fredric Jameson made in applying it to Language Poetry. First off, to de-pejoratize your own notion of schizophrenia, which can be a useful descriptive signifier, and treat it with greater equanimity. Could widen your critical applicability. Or even Szasz, "The Myth of Mental Illness," and the whole R.D. Laing British anti-psychiatry approach. Or the Semiotexte back issue on "Schizoculture": a broader approach that sees schizophrenia as endemic to America that's only emblematized in its recognizable cases. Her Language friends whose Weiner eulogies I read seemed to treat the matter (evidently "discovered" late) with unbiassed candor. Her ongoing political relevance may lie partially in ~exactly~ the fact of that label,--- much like the pellucid clarity after James Schuyler's reported episodes of psychosis: high-functioning, basically adaptive individuals who found a position in embracing communities, who lived pretty much happy lives, given baseline existential angst --- as opposed to the more malevolent "role models" Sylvia Plath or Anne Sexton became by yielding to self-murder in the end. In light of Plath/Sexton's relation to Confessionalism versus Weiner's to Language Poetry (and with the unfortunate, after-the-fact revelation of Ramez Qureshi's similar condition viz-a-viz "post"-Language), I have, rather than waning interest, in fact wondered whether there isn't some way that Confessionalism's aesthetics of a concretized, reified self and ego-exposure weren't intrinsically contributory to the high rate of suicides in that camp: Roethke, Berryman . . . Language/"post-Language" Poetry's literary high tolerance for deviation, its virtual ~enthusiasm~ at aberration, apparently coincides with a much lower degree of pathologization of its poets, generally speaking. Rather the mystique of the "professionalized" poet generation: careerist, MFA. Know what I mean? Illnesses can be fatal, but they must be potentially curable, even where a cure has not been found. Schizophrenia, like narcissism, by being "incurable" falls onto a different diagnostic axis than, say, garden variety neurosis. Like AIDS, which is not an illness, but a "Syndrome." Weiner's success could be very valuable in the empowerment or treatment of the similarly diagnosed, and the consciousness raising of the self-styled "normal." (There is ~no~ such DSM-IV category as "normal," Camille. Everybody's something.) Despite the unique prominence and notoriety of (violent) schizophrenics in the press, in a sense you ~cannot~ be schizophrenic in America, . . . any more than there could've been such a person as, say, an obsessive compulsive ~Medieval monk,~ or an obsessive compulsive Kabbalist, . . . or a histrionic Bacchante . . . ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 20:51:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Reminder: Midsummer Poems, Rituals, Songs, Art & Arnarchy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey just a reminder: Joel & Wanda are going on first at 8:30pm so come early. There'll be cool happenings in all parts of the garden simultaneously all evening--check it out: Come Sing and Celebrate at our outdoor KUPALO FREAKOUT -- Pagan Ukrainian Midsummer Night Poems, Rituals, Songs, Art and Anarchy Friday July 6th at 8:30PM in the Community Garden at 6th St and Ave B -- The event is free. featuring Yara artists: Mariana Sadovska, Zabryna Guevara, Jina Oh, Meredith Wright, Odarka Polanskyj, Alla Kusevych, Irena Hrechko, a new live reading and multi-projector film performance by filmmaker Joel Schlemowitz and poet Wanda Phipps, wreath maker Roksolana Luchkan and food artist Olesia Lew Featured performers: Alexis Kochan from Winnipeg, Bandurists: Julian Kytasty, Mike Andrec, Jurij Fedynski. Budmo Musical Group with Valeryi Zhmud, Roman Galynsky, Mykhailo Gnatuk and Petro Gorganyuk For more & updates see http://www.brama.com/yara/kupalo.html -- Wanda Phipps Hey, don't forget to check out my website MIND HONEY http://users.rcn.com/wanda.interport (and if you have already try it again) poetry, music and more! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:01:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Hannah's visions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hannah Weiner's papers, including manuscripts of all unpublished writings, are in the Special Collection at UCSD. A useful index to the Weiner's papers at UCSD is available at http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/speccoll/findaids/literary/weiner Hannah refers to Julian Jaynes's book, The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, in her writing, but I don't otherwise recall her discussing "Western" neurobiology; certainly she was interested in "chakras", "auras" and related mind-body concepts, including native American ideas of consciousness and would certainly have been aware of the full range of "psychological" and "scientific" thinking about consciousness, from William James and Semyon Kirlian onward. (As far as I know, Hannah had no neurological testing, though reading her work is a useful test of the reader's neurological pathways and possibly may help to expand them, which surely was what Hannah viewed as a value for poetry.) Charles Bernstein ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:27:07 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Risque ][of][ N.fection" Subject: retreater of coils Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ...there seems to b a dis.tinct lack of vision regarding any forms that break the mold or r even slightly skewed away from the predictable..... ...endings and beginnings, the eternal hook...... ...its strange - & i mite b slightly addled about this - but the further we progress along a new media ad][d][.here.nce route, the greater ][seems][ the creative tendency to crawl backwards in2 the canon cave whilst throwing tentative angular projections in2 the progressive ether... [hold on, let me dis.N.gage my Poetrix;)] ...wot i'm trying to communicate is that i'm sensing a type of rigidity in the network....that the medium is now somewot stained by corporate gluttony N regular seductions back to the tangible, the known....... ..although i realise that most of the art/literary market/scene haven't even began pushing 2wards/grappling with this "new" medium, its seems 2 be sliding slowly out of site....with the traditional pathways of recognition, segmentation, labelling & individualistic absorption manifest][er][ing...we seem 2 be e.turn.ally bound within capitalistic parameters....gender segregations....minority occlusions.... ...currently the net seems 2 b lapping against banal shores. ore does it? in hope of discussion, mez . . .... ..... net.wurker][risque.ov.n.fection][ n.sect.ile x.cuts.x .go.here. xXXx ./. www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker .... . .??? ....... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 03:00:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Chinese translations of Enigma n, Spastext, and Seattle Drift Comments: cc: "Poseidon (new) Lee" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Shuen-shing Lee of Taiwan has recently 'translated' three DHTML/kinetic pieces I wrote: Enigma n, Spastext, and Seattle Drift. These are visual poems and also computer programs written in Javascript/DHTML. He also posted to the webartery list an interesting introduction to his work that mentions some of the issues; there's a thread of discussion 'Jim in Chinese'. Briefly, it seems that because Shuen-shing was forced by the nature of the work itself to do completely non-literal translation in the case of Enigma n, what has resulted is not simply a translation into Chinese, but the creation of a quite different but richly related work which is probably an improvement on the original in many ways and, when juxtaposed with the English version, creates something beyond either. Shuen-shing's intro is at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/webartery/message/12062?threaded=1 and the discussion threads are reachable at the bottom if you scroll down. There are also links in the message directly to the Chinese. The English and Chinese of Enigma n are reachable from http://vispo.com/animisms/enigman/meaning.html Similarly, both the English and Chinese of Spastext (which requires Internet Explorer 4+ for the PC) are reachable from http://vispo.com/StirFryTexts Earlier, he translated Seattle Drift, another DHTML piece. The English and Chinese are reachable from http://www.vispo.com/animisms/SeattleDrift.html Shuen-shing Lee is an Associate Professor at the Dept of Foreign Languages and Literatures, National Chung Hsing University, Taiwan. He did his doctoral work in Comparative Literature at the University of Washington. The Chinese works are published online at The Literary Cafe, a website co-sponsored by The United News's Literary Supplement and the Taiwan government's Council for Cultural Affairs. Pretty cool since I can't make the local newspapers here in Victoria BC Canada. Both Shuen-shing and myself would be very interested to read your responses, particularly if you read both English and Chinese. Regards, Jim Andrews www.vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:57:29 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: roger.day@GLOBALGRAPHICS.COM Subject: Re: Iowa and the Anti-Laureate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Why not randomly select the anti-laureate from a set of eligible names? All you need is a set of selection rules (which you've partially got here) and "randomness" could mean writing the names on individual tickets and chucking them all at the same time down a flight of stairs. Whichever ticket makes it to the bottom, gets to be anti-laureate. At 05/07/2001 02:16:53, Mark DuCharme wrote: # While I'm sure Barrett Watten is right that there is no shortage of envy & # misgiving in the poetic rank & file (one need only read Harry Nudel's posts # to be reminded of that), I don't agree that this has much to do with the # anti-laureate, nor should it. The anti-laureate is an essentially anarchic # gesture: making fun of the "official" post & its history (winner receives a # bottle of vodka!), while attempting to represent a poet closer to the values # of the literary communities that nominated her or him, & specifically the # literary community of the Poetics List. (Notice I didn't say a poet # *representative* of those literary communities, or of the poetics of their # members). Since there is no official status, or even "honor" (in the CV # sense of the term) to the position, contesting it would be a particularly # pointless display of envy & misgiving. Kind of like arguing that a joke you # were just told ought to have had a different punch line. # # As for Anselm Hollo, I pointed out his Iowa connection to the High # Commissioner. So, unless the High Commissioner was particularly high at the # time, I'm assuming he doesn't feel (nor do I) that this should disqualify # him. # # Ann Lauterbach is another matter: hasn't she won a MacArthur? If so, then I # believe this should disqualify her. This was also the reason I didn't # nominate another of my favorite poets, Jackson Mac Low. # # All Hail to the anti-laureate! Let the vodka flow! # # Mark DuCharme # _________________________________________________________________ # Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com # Roger ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:16:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: Susan Wheeler / Claudia Rankine Reading Comments: To: Susan Wheeler MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Susan Wheeler wrote: > For those of you in New York City, Claudia Rankine and I will be reading > Thursday, July 12 at 7 pm at the Center for Book Arts, 28 West 27th Street > on the 3rd floor, between 6th Avenue and Broadway. Number there is > 212-481-0295. Snacks after. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- What kind of snacks? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 08:46:19 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Hannah's visions In-Reply-To: <3B44CB81.B50C2457@columbia.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" as far as i can tell, hannah was extremely interested in the phenomenon of her "psychic"ness. there's an interview w/ her, or an essay based on an interview, in Ben Friedlander and Andrew Schelling's --is it Jimmy and Lucy's House of K? --in which she cites an article in Scientific american about brain physiology/neurology. ben sent me a xerox of it some years ago. in the same piece she attributes some of her psychic abilities to LSD, saying thta it promotes or facilitates telepathy, if i recall correctly. At 4:18 PM -0400 7/5/01, Jeffrey Jullich wrote: >Camille Martin wrote: > >> I read that she was diagnosed with schizophrenia ... I'm less interested in >> the label of an illness than I am with what was happening in her brain >> during her visions. . . . I'd appreciate any comments >> on this or sources to read. > >Interest will go where'er it wilt, but--- > >You might find greater amplitude by not taking that label to be a "label of an >~illness"~ per se but a label of a ~condition,~ to start with,--- > >along the lines of (predictably) Deleuze-Guattari "Capitalism and >Schizophrenia," etc., or the similarly neutral use of the term Fredric Jameson >made in applying it to Language Poetry. > >First off, to de-pejoratize your own notion of schizophrenia, which can be a >useful descriptive signifier, and treat it with greater equanimity. Could >widen your critical applicability. > >Or even Szasz, "The Myth of Mental Illness," and the whole R.D. Laing British >anti-psychiatry approach. > >Or the Semiotexte back issue on "Schizoculture": a broader approach that sees >schizophrenia as endemic to America that's only emblematized in its >recognizable cases. > >Her Language friends whose Weiner eulogies I read seemed to treat the matter >(evidently "discovered" late) with unbiassed candor. > >Her ongoing political relevance may lie partially in ~exactly~ the fact of >that >label,--- much like the pellucid clarity after James Schuyler's reported >episodes of psychosis: high-functioning, basically adaptive individuals who >found a position in embracing communities, who lived pretty much happy lives, >given baseline existential angst --- as opposed to the more malevolent "role >models" Sylvia Plath or Anne Sexton became by yielding to self-murder in the >end. > >In light of Plath/Sexton's relation to Confessionalism versus Weiner's to >Language Poetry (and with the unfortunate, after-the-fact revelation of Ramez >Qureshi's similar condition viz-a-viz "post"-Language), I have, rather than >waning interest, in fact wondered whether there isn't some way that >Confessionalism's aesthetics of a concretized, reified self and ego-exposure >weren't intrinsically contributory to the high rate of suicides in that camp: >Roethke, Berryman . . . > >Language/"post-Language" Poetry's literary high tolerance for deviation, its >virtual ~enthusiasm~ at aberration, apparently coincides with a much lower >degree of pathologization of its poets, generally speaking. Rather the >mystique of the "professionalized" poet generation: careerist, MFA. > >Know what I mean? > >Illnesses can be fatal, but they must be potentially curable, even where a >cure >has not been found. Schizophrenia, like narcissism, by being "incurable" >falls >onto a different diagnostic axis than, say, garden variety neurosis. Like >AIDS, which is not an illness, but a "Syndrome." > >Weiner's success could be very valuable in the empowerment or treatment of the >similarly diagnosed, and the consciousness raising of the self-styled >"normal." (There is ~no~ such DSM-IV category as "normal," Camille. >Everybody's something.) > > >Despite the unique prominence and notoriety of (violent) schizophrenics in the >press, in a sense you ~cannot~ be schizophrenic in America, . . . any more >than >there could've been such a person as, say, an obsessive compulsive ~Medieval >monk,~ or an obsessive compulsive Kabbalist, . . . or a histrionic Bacchante . >. . ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 08:33:11 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: CLOSING OF ANTI-LAUREATE POLLS In-Reply-To: <86.c10b46a.28749e8a@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" whoa! since phillip morris is no doubt cozy w/ the bush admin, i propose the opposite --that the anti must be either a non-smoker, or, like Bob Kaufman, someone who died of emphyzema (sp?). At 12:30 PM -0400 7/4/01, Austinwja@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 7/4/01 9:26:25 AM, archambeau@HERMES.LFC.EDU writes: > ><< The United States High Commission on Anti-Laureateship will now retire >to its library cubicle to count votes and sneak a cigarette. >> > >I think we've hit upon an important criterion for the anti-appointment. The >anti-winner MUST be a smoker, and must smoke like a barn fire at all of the >anti-meetings. Candidates who don't smoke are just too clean and good and >correct and healthy and should be off the list. > >Come to think of it, the anti-Poet Laureate should not even be a poet. So >maybe Billy Collins wins this one too. That would make him a poet and not a >poet, one carrying the trace of the other. Jeez, I gotta split the >"differance," read a comic book or somethin'. Best, Bill > > > >William James Austin.com >Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:19:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: peter culley Subject: anti-anti-laureate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The whole anti-laureate thread makes me nostalgic for the great stamp = act controversy. Why do so many Americans yearn for monarchical = trappings? What possible function would any kind of laureate ("anti" or = not) have in a republic? So close to July 4th you Yanks should remember = that you fought a war precisely so that the King of England couldn't = walk into your house and take away your guns or tell you what your poets = should write about. And I question such whimsically "anarchic" gestures = from people who have such a clear sense of "envy" in the "rank and = file." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:35:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Hannah's visions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hannah's visions, under the "I see words" rubric, were literally hallucinations. She would see words and type what she saw. There was a specific onset of this condition (when? how?), and I remember speaking with her about how the words tended go away with medication. This may have been an incentive not to medicate--so there was a tradeoff between the downside of "symptoms" and feeling emotionally upbeat about getting a lot of writing done--by hallucination. It seems that one could go one of two directions here. Acknowledge that the words that came were "symptoms" of an underlying illness and then decide on the relation of that condition to their literary value, or suspend that decision--no matter what produced them, they were re-presented in literary form and hence a part of "shaping" sensibility, possessing form and intention. Certainly her work with "codes" in the 60s influenced her sense of the value of these phenomena. It's not a simple either/or question, but not asking it, I think, gets a lot simpler result in terms of reading or responding to Hannah's work and self-presentation. Is she in a special "category of one" as a writer who sees the words that she writes? Should a book about Hannah Weiner be classified under "disability studies," "neurology," "psychology," in addition to poetry? To what extent does the psychobiology of her writing practice challenge the literariness of her work? When we think of the various automatisms that have been put forward as an answer to reason in 20th-century poetry, do we have to qualify these phenomena in terms of some kind of self-conscious method in order for them to be "literary"? What is the status of Hannah's "literal" transcription of automatism vs. what Breton wanted from it? Would Breton have approved of Hannah's work? Is her work more akin to "art brut," an "outsider" art that needs the recognition of a museum or collector (or archive!) to validate it? In beginning to think about these things, I'd suggest it's important that there was a conflict in the nature of intentionality in Hannah's work, at the very least--medicate and stop hallucinations, cease medication and hallucinate. How to think about the nature of such a decision? BW ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:10:42 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: Fw: Forwarded mail.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My friend and Tinfish covergirl, Gaye Chan, has a new exhibit on-line. Give it a try. Then send $7 to Tinfish for the two new chaps designed by her! aloha, Susan ----- Original Message ----- > > hello folks. my first try at a web-exhibition was launched yesterday. if > interested, pls go to > > http://www.travellers-tales.org/ > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 17:45:06 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: CLOSING OF ANTI-LAUREATE POLLS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/6/01 12:36:58 PM, damon001@TC.UMN.EDU writes: << whoa! since phillip morris is no doubt cozy w/ the bush admin, i propose the opposite --that the anti must be either a non-smoker, or, like Bob Kaufman, someone who died of emphyzema (sp?). >> Well, since the anti-winner has been x-letcted, this is all after the anti-fact. But I certainly see your anti-point. On the other hand, Bush was a drunk, and his daughters don't seem to mind a bit of snake venom themselves. Liquor companies have plenty of pull with both political parties. Nevertheless I would still want my anti-laureate to be boozed most of the no-time. Oh well, there's always next year. Anti-thesisially yours, Bill William James Austin.com Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 22:03:28 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Barbarians of the Gates Comments: To: BBlum6@aol.com, flpoint@hotmail.com, ibid1@earthlink.net, moyercdmm@earthlink.net, CMJBalso@aol.com, alphavil@ix.netcom.com, harrysandy@kreative.net, derekvdt@academypo.fss.fss.pvt.k12.pa.us, Amzemel@aol.com, working-class-list@listserv.liunet.edu, BRITISH-POETS@jiscmail.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New Dictionary's Definitions Inconsistent By HILLEL ITALIE .c The Associated Press NEW YORK (July 6) - All U.S. presidents since the Civil War qualify as statesmen, except Richard Nixon. Robert Kennedy was a politician, but Newt Gingrich is a ''political leader.'' And former FBI head J. Edgar Hoover is just a lawyer. The new Microsoft Encarta College Dictionary is being promoted as a revolutionary addition to the competitive campus market, with its makers saying its more accessible style and extensive spelling guidance and usage notes make it the first such book truly suited to today's students. But however useful it proves for language skills, students also will receive some odd lessons in political and popular history in the book, available only in paper form. Definitions of some notable people are inconsistent, misleading or outright inaccurate: -From George Washington to George W. Bush, presidents in the Microsoft dictionary also receive the label ''statesman,'' except for two: Nixon (''37th president of the United States'') and Zachary Taylor (''military leader and 12th president of the United States''). Franklin Pierce is not even labeled a president, just a statesman. -Dick Cheney and Al Gore are both listed as ''statesman and vice president of the United States.'' But Spiro Agnew, Nixon's vice president, is simply a ''politician.'' -Paraguay's Alfredo Stroessner is a ''dictator.'' Spain's Francisco Franco is an ''authoritarian leader.'' Saddam Hussein and Augusto Pinochet are ''national'' leaders. Idi Amin is a ''head of state.'' And Joseph Stalin is a ''statesman.'' -The entries for Hillary Rodham Clinton, Eleanor Roosevelt, Jackie Kennedy and other presidential wives all note they were first ladies. But Abigail Adams, wife of John Adams, is identified only as a ''feminist.'' ''She wouldn't have even understood that word,'' says David McCullough, author of the best-selling biography ''John Adams.'' Anne Soukhanov, the dictionary's general editor, acknowledged a ''glitch'' in the editorial process. She said the definitions were shortened versions of entries in the Microsoft Encarta World English Dictionary, published in 1999, and that vital information was inadvertently left out. ''It would have been much nicer if cross-checks had been made in individual categories like vice president,'' she said. Soukhanov said the entries would be amended, but did not know when that would happen. She indicated subjective-sounding words such as ''statesman'' and ''politician'' would be dropped. ''Dictionary editors have always been taught to avoid attaching value judgments to words they define. And yet when it comes to people, it seems we have slipped, all of us,'' she said. While Soukhanov defended the dictionary's overall integrity, saying the mistakes were not ''world-threatening,'' a longtime analyst of the reference field was more troubled. ''Consistency is an obvious hallmark of a good reference book,'' said Ken Kister, author of the consumer guide Kister's Best Dictionaries. ''Biographical entries are peripheral for most dictionary users, but anything that isn't right about a reference book casts doubt on the whole editorial process,'' Kister said. Long associated with encyclopedias, biographical entries are a relatively new feature for dictionaries. After World War II, publishers of dictionaries wanted to expand their appeal and began including references to politicians, artists and other historical figures, Kister said. Quirks in these entries aren't uncommon, and pop culture seems an especially tricky area. Webster's II New College Dictionary, for instance, defines Beatles John Lennon, Paul McCartney and Ringo Starr as musicians and composers, but George Harrison as a ''singer and songwriter.'' The American Heritage College Dictionary, meanwhile, labels Lennon a ''musician and composer who wrote many of the Beatles' songs.'' McCartney, his prolific songwriting partner, is simply a ''musician and composer who was a member of the Beatles.'' Harrison, again, is a ''singer and songwriter.'' In the Microsoft version, Lennon is listed as a ''singer, songwriter, and musician.'' McCartney, the band's most versatile instrumentalist, is just a ''singer and songwriter.'' Harrison, who wrote and sang lead on the classics ''Something'' and ''Here Comes the Sun,'' is a ''musician.'' Starr is labeled both drummer and musician and is the only one identified as a Beatle. Microsoft's new reference work - released by the software giant, St. Martin's Press and London-based Bloomsbury Publishing - is an attempt to to grab a piece of the lucrative college market. ''We're trying to address some major issues,'' Soukhanov said. ''We have done extensive research and were startled to find out that students need a great deal of help with spelling and basic usage.'' The book looks like a traditional dictionary, but contains such unusual features as warnings on what computer spellcheck programs might do to certain words and 700 words listed under their common misspellings. Microsoft already brings an uncertain history to the reference field. Its World English dictionary was criticized for some peculiar editorial decisions, such as including a picture of Microsoft head Bill Gates, but not of John Kennedy. The Gates photo has been dropped for the college edition, and one of Kennedy added. AP-NY-07-06-01 1502EDT Copyright 2001 The Associated Press ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:09:51 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ammonides@AOL.COM Subject: Because the nominations have been closed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would still like to nominate the great poet, gun-collector, expert marksman, and liver-transplant survivor Carl Thayler, whose works I am presently translating. Ammonides Diodoros ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 23:08:55 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick herron Subject: Re: retreater of coils In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010706142707.00b806e0@pop.hotkey.net.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mez - Thanks for the stimulating comments. Evidence of stimulation follows. Why must it only be form that "breaks the mold," as you say? what about content? the 20th century has seen the rapid proliferation of many new ways to say something. problem is, it appears people stopped saying anything. the only thing it seems most people relate to anymore is commercials. ironically they're the only things that have a clear message anymore, even if it is the disappointing and exploitative "buy me." perhaps something else needs to be said. it seems only a wealthy minority communicates freely, and the rest of us who might try to communicate (including myself) end up blendering it up in forms, sometimes empty forms. our cups are empty but we rush to fill the cups of the few, believing all the while we are filling our own. as if we are in a dream that quiets the harsh buzzing of our disposable motors. Can we ever get out of the "canon cave"? Perhaps we all just keep saying the same things over and over and over and over. Perhaps there is no such thing as novelty. Perhaps this very universe itself is repeating itself, and we are hearing the distant echo of something already said and we are that echo. Perhaps. (Or perhaps not.) i think the old chaps begin to feel guilty about all of their nouveau riche reasons for their wealth and so they try to obfuscate the truth under the false comfort of the patina of an original finish. The people pushing the canon are usually from "old money" hiding the ugly history of their wealth under the false legitimacy of the provenance of some rococo finial excess. "that the medium is now somewot stained by corporate gluttony N regular seductions back to the tangible, the known......." i would agree that corporate gluttony is causing problems, yes, clearly. these are dark days indeed. but does corporate america want to keep selling the same thing, or do they need you to get the newest and the latest thing? if you need to see what I mean, take a look at cuba. the cars they drive are old old old. because there's no capital system to push the new into existence needlessly. or look at computers. the new is constantly being introduced and the old is being outmoded at an astonishing rate, and the end result is not progress but the mass looting of pockets, pockets like black holes that smug men turn into stars pouring light into only one direction. personal pulsars by the millions, for the greedy. i think capital rushes away from the known, always pushing "progress." And "progress" remains a watchword for profit as it has for so many years. this new medium we are using to communicate with one another is perhaps the ultimate tool of colonialism, divide and conquer. networking and TCP/IP, after all, were both brought to you by DARPA. these are the people who will make sure we have invisible tanks and planes and soldiers by 2025. science fiction to some, but that's a fact. people who are working to make the battlefield "network-centric" through new technologies as exotic as active templates, organic air vehicles, robotic perception systems, unmanned fighting aircraft, ENCOMPASS syndromic surveillance, and so on. Our answer is unlikely to be found in machines but might be in the flesh. machines keep offering us new ways to feed ourselves perhaps, but mostly they are consistently co-opted for employment in Murder, Inc. Flesh is new and regenerating itself, but oh so old, so fragile, and so hard to control. yet we manage somehow to be predictable. but we do have our moments when nothing can predict us, yes. someone might know how you and i behave. they can predict us. or at least struggle to. they'll never get it exactly right. but the web is exactly that, a web. in it we are caught. i hope that poetry makes us unpredictable, that it shows us how unpredictable we can be. i think the web has opened up a greater potential for domination and authority and control. currently those in charge are into capital. but authority takes many political forms--capitalism, marxism, leninism, monarchism, and so on. anyway the web is a tool for surveillance and monitoring, one that invites "free" behavior (behavior that is actually quite discretely bounded), one that allows certain folks to figure out how we are predictable. predictability helps sales. it helps control people. perhaps these are the "banal shores" of which you speak. but it is of course just a tool. a hammer can break a man's skull or be used to build a house to keep him warm. the web is a dangerous territory, but the struggle is not new. it is older, much older, than the eons we can imagine. "with the traditional pathways of > recognition, > segmentation, labelling & individualistic absorption > manifest][er][ing...we > seem 2 be e.turn.ally bound within capitalistic parameters....gender > segregations....minority occlusions...." we do seem to be eternally bound within *authoritative* parameters. i agree entirely. capitalism is but one form of the authority. there are many forms of the struggle for resources, and perhaps this is something we can not escape. Perhaps. (Or perhaps not.) thanks mez. best, Patrick Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org http://proximate.org/ getting close is what we're all about here! > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Risque ][of][ > N.fection > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 12:27 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: retreater of coils > > > ...there seems to b a dis.tinct lack of vision regarding any forms that > break the mold or r even slightly skewed away from the predictable..... > > > ...endings and beginnings, the eternal hook...... > > > ...its strange - & i mite b slightly addled about this - but the > further we > progress along a new media ad][d][.here.nce route, the greater ][seems][ > the creative tendency to crawl backwards in2 the canon cave > whilst throwing > tentative angular projections in2 the progressive ether... > > [hold on, let me dis.N.gage my Poetrix;)] > > ...wot i'm trying to communicate is that i'm sensing a type of rigidity in > the network.... "that the medium is now somewot stained by > corporate gluttony > N regular seductions back to the tangible, the known.......> > ..although i realise that most of the art/literary market/scene haven't > even began pushing 2wards/grappling with this "new" medium, its seems 2 be > sliding slowly out of site....with the traditional pathways of > recognition, > segmentation, labelling & individualistic absorption > manifest][er][ing...we > seem 2 be e.turn.ally bound within capitalistic parameters....gender > segregations....minority occlusions.... > > > ...currently the net seems 2 b lapping against banal shores. ore does it? > > > in hope of discussion, > mez > > > > > > > > > > > . . .... ..... > net.wurker][risque.ov.n.fection][ > n.sect.ile x.cuts.x .go.here. xXXx > ./. > www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker > .... . .??? ....... > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 21:16:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "D. Ross Priddle" Subject: open riot Comments: To: poets-list@lights.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII drug-free writing, option zone, others eeking others, ludite, envelope mistake, bloated mail box, writing in colour, imp partial text, consciousness praising, anima mania, notes forward, screefin', a book missing off the shelf, telediffusion, expand the surface, all litter eh? shun, unbowering, a map we are on, we buy together, in and out of the page, newspaper as object, all line meant one thing, take a world apart, eye for one, post-future, can't get a line in or out, do the information , download a bit of text on you, i'm going to open you up, & watch no teevee, you can't beleev everything you write, a hard won word, easy poetry, video-text, remain on the surf ace, how would you character eyse this text?, pay per text, we know where you are looking, one has been meaning, nothing to be ashamed of, respo, mediapost, ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 21:12:17 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: IxnayPress@AOL.COM Subject: ixnay - new issue, new address MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We're pleased to announce the publication of ixnay six. It contains new work by: Kaia Sand / Deborah Meadows / Holly Bittner / Hugh Tribbey / Valerie Fox / Francis Ryan / Arielle Greenberg / Taj Jackson / Elizabeth Treadwell / Lauren Rile Smith / Tom Devaney / Brett Evans / K. Silem Mohammad / Karen Weiser & Kevin Varrone on Lisa Jarnot's "Ring of Fire" & Don Riggs on Ted Berrigan's "The Sonnets" All for $5! You can place orders via e-mail or pony express; please make checks payable to either Chris McCreary or Jenn McCreary, not the press itself. Please note our new mailing address: ixnay press c/o McCreary 1328 Tasker Street Philadelphia PA 19148 Thanks much. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 21:44:29 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: CLOSING OF ANTI-LAUREATE POLLS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Did the Marlboro man write? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 12:47:42 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Scott=20Hamilton?= Subject: Re: petition for macedonia In-Reply-To: <011e01c104ac$401e5420$e201f0d5@k6x0h2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I had a look at the petition page - here was the gist of the text I got: "Dear President Bush, We, Macedonian people and friends of the Macedonian people, are very concerned about the troubled situation in Macedonia. Innocent Macedonian people are being forced to leave their homes by the Albanian terrorists...The goal of the Albanian terrorists is to take over Macedonian territory and create Greater Albania. Please use your power to end the Albanian terrorist movement in Macedonia." A President who has made a career out of the legally-sanctioned murder of black and Hispanic Texans, who appointed an opponent of Civil Rights and defender of the Confederacy to the post of Attorney General, who barely got a quarter of his own population to vote for him: is this a portait of the saviour of Macedonia? I know the problems of the Balkans are complex, but I would argue that the US, NATO and especially the IMF in the 80s are more responsible for them than a few Albanian guerrillas. Asking imperialist powers to intervene in the Balkans is like hiring an arsonist to fight fires. It's depressing to see that elements of the intelligentsia of Macedonia taking the thoughtless line reflected in this petition. Cheers Scott ===== For "a ruthless criticism of every existing idea": THR@LL, NZ's class struggle anarchist paper http://www.freespeech.org/thrall/ THIRD EYE, a Kiwi lib left project, at http://www.geocities.com/the_third_eye_website/ and 'REVOLUTION' magazine, a Frankfurt-Christchurch production, http://cantua.canterbury.ac.nz/%7Ejho32/ ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 10:19:13 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Hannah's visions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/7/01 6:17:31 AM, b.watten@WAYNE.EDU writes: >When we think of the various automatisms that have been put forward as >an >answer to reason in 20th-century poetry, do we have to qualify these >phenomena in terms of some kind of self-conscious method in order for them >to be "literary"? What is the status of Hannah's "literal" transcription >of >automatism vs. what Breton wanted from it? Would Breton have approved of >Hannah's work? Is her work more akin to "art brut," an "outsider" art that >needs the recognition of a museum or collector (or archive!) to validate >it? > Under Barrett's question lies the contradiction between "experimental" art and "authority, hierarchy." As phenomenon, there is very little difference between Hannah's "literal transcriptions of automatism" and Breton's surrealist. But still Barrett brings the question of Breton's "approval" or a museum's or archive's "validation" of Hannah's work. In other words, the difference between the two (Hannah's and Breton's methods) is the degree of their social acceptance, which side of the railroad track they come, so to speak. Surrealism today is more or less mainstream art whereas Hannah's is trying to find a place (isn't brut art a euphemism for asylum art work as a step towards social acceptance?). One can slum into insanity (surrealism), but one can't live there (then, at best, one is brut, like "brute," in savage.). The distinction has class, hierarchy written all over it. Talking about "experimental" or "advanced" poetry, art, etc., one should beware the irony of the situation, how these terms actually do not quite mean what they say and often have acceptance of society integrated (pre-programed) in them. Murat Nemet-Nejat ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 09:20:12 -0600 Reply-To: Mary Angeline Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Angeline Subject: Re: CLOSING OF ANTI-LAUREATE POLLS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Congradulations Anselm! The rank & file await your anti-acceptance speech. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 3:45 PM Subject: Re: CLOSING OF ANTI-LAUREATE POLLS > In a message dated 7/6/01 12:36:58 PM, damon001@TC.UMN.EDU writes: > > << whoa! since phillip morris is no doubt cozy w/ the bush admin, i propose > the opposite --that the anti must be either a non-smoker, or, like Bob > Kaufman, someone who died of emphyzema (sp?). > >> > > Well, since the anti-winner has been x-letcted, this is all after the > anti-fact. But I certainly see your anti-point. On the other hand, Bush was > a drunk, and his daughters don't seem to mind a bit of snake venom > themselves. Liquor companies have plenty of pull with both political > parties. Nevertheless I would still want my anti-laureate to be boozed most > of the no-time. Oh well, there's always next year. Anti-thesisially yours, > Bill > > William James Austin.com > Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 11:45:05 -0400 Reply-To: BobGrumman@nut-n-but.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: anti-laureate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I hate to yet again reveal my profound ignorance, but although I'm pretty sure I've read some of our anti-laureate's poetry, I don't remember any of it. Could someone fill me in about what it is that he's written that distinguishes him from the official laureates? --Bob G. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 12:06:04 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: anti-anti-laureate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/7/01 7:15:05 AM, pjculley@HOME.COM writes: << The whole anti-laureate thread makes me nostalgic for the great stamp act controversy. Why do so many Americans yearn for monarchical trappings? What possible function would any kind of laureate ("anti" or not) have in a republic? So close to July 4th you Yanks should remember that you fought a war precisely so that the King of England couldn't walk into your house and take away your guns or tell you what your poets should write about. And I question such whimsically "anarchic" gestures from people who have such a clear sense of "envy" in the "rank and file. >> Does anyone have a fresh blanket? This one is wet. Best, Bill William James Austin.com Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 12:28:15 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: Re: Hannah's visions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Intention and address." Craig Watson and I corresponded obsessively about these issues back in the 1980's. And it's been at least that long since I read Jaynes' _The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind_when it first came out. I can see why that book would have appealed to Hannah. My memory of it is fuzzy but I seem to recall Jaynes discussing the origin of the idea of a muse as an aspect of the evolution of the brain--that, prior to the development of consciousness as we know it today, one's "inner voice" was experienced as external. The history of poetry, of course, is full of examples of poetry as visions or dictations or messages for which the poet serves as conduit. Think of Blake, Yeats, Duncan, Rimbaud, Spicer, Artaud, etc, etc. Think of Orpheus in the Cocteau movie getting his verse through a car radio. Hannah was a great poet. Her diagnosis shouldn't get in the way of that. If anything it makes her even more extraordinary. Very few schizophrenics create wonderful art. Most just live in chaos and pain. NB:Psychotropic drugs are usually a mixed blessing. There are typically side effects that are unwelcome. It's never a simple either/or. Tom Beckett ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 13:44:45 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: retreater of coils MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 7/7/01 7:25:25 AM, patrick@PROXIMATE.ORG writes: << Why must it only be form that "breaks the mold," as you say? what about content? the 20th century has seen the rapid proliferation of many new ways to say something. problem is, it appears people stopped saying anything. >> Thanks, Patrick, for your insightful comments. Let me add the following for= =20 you and anyone who might be interested. A former acquaintance of mine, Louise Meriwether (author of Daddy Was A=20 Number Runner), once commented to me that "Black artists have no time for=20 bullshit." In her sentence, "bullshit" referred to all current formalisms.=20= =20 In her view, only bourgeois, privileged whites could come up with an=20 aesthetic that so often, and so thoroughly, disrupts direct communication. =20 Blacks, she continued, still have something to say, something that must be=20 said. In quoting her, I do not wish to promote one method at the expense of=20 another, nor should anyone assume my uncritical agreement with her. My take= =20 is that there is a time, a place, a raison d'=EAtre for most methodologies.=20= =20 But nevertheless Louise gave me something to think about. There most=20 certainly is a political dimension to what we do as artists, and often that=20 dimension sneaks up on us, circumscribes us in ways we never intended, or=20 anticipated. We may argue, and rightly so, that there are other ways to "sa= y=20 something" beyond the standard form. On the other hand, when one is in=20 revolutionary mode, with serious issues like food, shelter, power, culture a= t=20 stake, one tends to communicate rather directly (to reach as many as=20 possible), as is the case, historically, of most theoretical writings from=20 the "avant-garde." The art may be formally disruptive, but the "call to=20 arms," so to speak--the explanations, justifications, etc.--are usually=20 couched in fairly standard structures. As good ole' Derrida says, we can't=20 escape the metaphysical "web." We are caught, inevitably, in a weave of=20 hierarchies. And that weave always involves the creation and distribution o= f=20 capital, and the trajectory of capital seems always towards the top, in some= =20 cases those who can afford the new technologies. Perhaps this is, finally,=20 the natural order of things, and language. Perhaps only the dominant forces= =20 find space and time to play. Perhaps the freedom to play always already=20 indicates a position in the hierarchy. Which doesn't necessarily mean we=20 shouldn't indulge ourselves, especially since our experiments, and those of=20 our precursors, have informed the culture in crucial ways. If I'm understanding Mez, her questioning involves the seeming degradation o= f=20 the value of a strict formalism, however radical. George Harrison once wrot= e=20 that "All Things Must Pass," and that seems pretty obviously true. Although= =20 I am certainly not certain about anything, it could be that the world's=20 problems are escalating in ways that demand, once again, that we directly=20 address the content of our lives. If the power of Langpo and its offshoots= =20 seems diminished (does it?), that may serve to mark its success, its=20 importance, its privilege within cultural history. Who knows? =20 Charles Bernstein once wrote in the wonderful Contents Dream that Langpo=20 constructed a language that was not about anything "out there," but only "in= =20 here." Perhaps the "out there" insists we reengage it. It is, after all,=20 where we live. Not to say, of course, that formal experimentation shouldn't= =20 continue. Not at all. But maybe something along the lines of a Kubrickian=20 vision, something in the manner of Clockwork Orange, The Shining, A.I.,=20 something both formally expressive and dense in imagery, symbolism, metaphor= ,=20 etc., etc., calls to us once again. Something that involves a wide range of= =20 language's possibilities, functions. (Of course, such art has never actuall= y=20 gone away.) In one powerful scene from A.I. a series of words is used to=20 "imprint" the robot child with love, i.e., humanity. The "mother" who adopt= s=20 this mechanism is told that once the imprint is accomplished, it can never b= e=20 undone. Hmmm. . . Best wishes to us all in our efforts. Bill William James Austin.com Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 13:47:25 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: CLOSING OF ANTI-LAUREATE POLLS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/7/01 7:32:08 AM, Smassoni@AOL.COM writes: << Did the Marlboro man write? >> Ha Ha! No, like the rest of us, he is written. Best, Bill William James Austin.com Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 14:50:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hassen Subject: Re: retreater of coils MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi mez while i understand & agree with your complaint i can't help but wonder if such attitudes toward new media are partially due to distrust - is it technology's ephemerality inhibiting folks reliance? re patrick's point of new content*... amid commercial/ism and All Sorts of yapyap (which i'm not ~exactly~ condemning) i know i for one am hasty to filter/ignore much foraging for fresh substance. i'm not suggesting that all new media compositions lack content (quite the opposite with a few such as yourself) but perhaps it's more time-consuming or difficult for some to locate such when neither the motion nor the lexicon is yet familiar. h * i'm reminded just now of dialogue (subt) in fellini's *8 1/2*: "It's better to destroy than to create what's unessential. Besides, what's clear enough, valuable enough, to deserve to survive? ...We're already suffocated by words, by sounds and images, that have no reason to exist, that emerge from the void and return to the void. Any man worthy to be called an artist should swear an oath - dedication to silence." ----- Original Message ----- From: Risque ][of][ N.fection To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 12:27 AM Subject: retreater of coils ...there seems to b a dis.tinct lack of vision regarding any forms that break the mold or r even slightly skewed away from the predictable..... ...endings and beginnings, the eternal hook...... ...its strange - & i mite b slightly addled about this - but the further we progress along a new media ad][d][.here.nce route, the greater ][seems][ the creative tendency to crawl backwards in2 the canon cave whilst throwing tentative angular projections in2 the progressive ether... [hold on, let me dis.N.gage my Poetrix;)] ...wot i'm trying to communicate is that i'm sensing a type of rigidity in the network....that the medium is now somewot stained by corporate gluttony N regular seductions back to the tangible, the known....... ..although i realise that most of the art/literary market/scene haven't even began pushing 2wards/grappling with this "new" medium, its seems 2 be sliding slowly out of site....with the traditional pathways of recognition, segmentation, labelling & individualistic absorption manifest][er][ing...we seem 2 be e.turn.ally bound within capitalistic parameters....gender segregations....minority occlusions.... ...currently the net seems 2 b lapping against banal shores. ore does it? in hope of discussion, mez . . .... ..... net.wurker][risque.ov.n.fection][ n.sect.ile x.cuts.x .go.here. xXXx ./. www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker .... . .??? ....... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 18:37:05 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: The Court trying Milosevic -- Some things you should know about it Comments: To: flpoint@hotmail.com, ibid1@earthlink.net, moyercdmm@earthlink.net, CMJBalso@aol.com, alphavil@ix.netcom.com, harrysandy@kreative.net, derekvdt@academypo.fss.fss.pvt.k12.pa.us, Amzemel@aol.com, working-class-list@listserv.liunet.edu, BRITISH-POETS@jiscmail.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia Some things you should know about it Beginning about two weeks after the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia began in March, 1999, international-law professionals from Canada, the United Kingdom, Greece, and the American Association of Jurists began to file complaints with the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia in The Hague, Netherlands, charging leaders of NATO countries and officials of NATO itself with crimes similar to those for which the Tribunal had issued indictments shortly before against Serbian leaders. Amongst the charges filed were: "grave violations of international humanitarian law", including "wilful killing, wilfully causing great suffering and serious injury to body and health, employment of poisonous weapons and other weapons to cause unnecessary suffering, wanton destruction of cities, towns and villages, unlawful attacks on civilian objects, devastation not necessitated by military objectives, attacks on undefended buildings and dwellings, destruction and wilful damage done to institutions dedicated to religion, charity and education, the arts and sciences." The Canadian suit names 68 leaders, including William Clinton, Madeleine Albright, William Cohen, Tony Blair, Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien, and NATO officials Javier Solana, Wesley Clark, and Jamie Shea. The complaint also alleges "open violation" of the United Nations Charter, the NATO treaty itself, the Geneva Conventions, and the Principles of International Law Recognized by the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg. The complaint was submitted along with a considerable amount of evidence to support the charges. The evidence makes the key point that it was NATO's bombing campaign which had given rise to the bulk of the deaths in Yugoslavia, provoked most of the Serbian atrocities, created an environmental disaster, and left a dangerous legacy of unexploded depleted uranium and cluster bombs. In June, some of the complainants met in The Hague with the court's chief prosecutor, Louise Arbour of Canada. Although she cordially received their brief in person, along with three thick volumes of evidence documenting the alleged war crimes, nothing of substance came of the meeting, despite repeated follow-up submissions and letters by the plaintiffs. In November, her successor, Carla Del Ponte of Switzerland, also met with some of the complainants and received extensive evidence. The complainants' brief in November pointed out that the prosecution of those named by them was "not only a requirement of law, it is a requirement of justice to the victims and of deterrence to powerful countries such as those in NATO who, in their military might and in their control over the media, are lacking in any other natural restraint such as might deter less powerful countries." Charging the war's victors, not only its losers, it was argued, would be a watershed in international criminal law. In one of the letters to Arbour, Michael Mandel, a professor of law in Toronto and the initiator of the Canadian suit, added: Unfortunately, as you know, many doubts have already been raised about the impartiality of your Tribunal. In the early days of the conflict, after a formal and, in our view, justified complaint against NATO leaders had been laid before it by members of the Faculty of Law of Belgrade University, you appeared at a press conference with one of the accused, British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook, who made a great show of handing you a dossier of Serbian war crimes. In early May, you appeared at another press conference with US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, by that time herself the subject of two formal complaints of war crimes over the targeting of civilians in Yugoslavia. Albright publicly announced at that time that the US was the major provider of funds for the Tribunal and that it had pledged even more money to it.{1} Arbour herself made little attempt to hide the pro-NATO bias she wore beneath her robe. She trusted NATO to be its own police, judge, jury, and prison guard. In a year in which the arrest of General Pinochet was giving an inspiring lift to the cause of international law and international justice, the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia, under Arbour's leadership, ruled that for the Great Powers it would be business as usual, particularly the Great Power that was most vulnerable to prosecution, and which, coincidentally, paid most of her salary. Here are her own words: I am obviously not commenting on any allegations of violations of international humanitarian law supposedly perpetrated by nationals of NATO countries. I accept the assurances given by NATO leaders that they intend to conduct their operations in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia in full compliance with international humanitarian law. I have reminded many of them, when the occasion presented itself, of their obligation to conduct fair and open-minded investigations of any possible deviance from that policy, and of the obligation of commanders to prevent and punish, if required.{2} NATO Press Briefing, May 16, 1999: Question: Does NATO recognize Judge Arbour's jurisdiction over their activities? Jamie Shea: I think we have to distinguish between the theoretical and the practical. I believe that when Justice Arbour starts her investigation [of the Serbs], she will because we will allow her to. ... NATO countries are those that have provided the finance to set up the Tribunal, we are amongst the majority financiers. The Tribunal -- created in 1993, with the US as the father, the Security Council as the mother, and Madeleine Albright as the midwife -- also relies on the military assets of the NATO powers to track down and arrest the suspects it tries for war crimes. There appeared to be no more happening with the complaint under Del Ponte than under Arbour, but in late December, in an interview with The Observer of London, Del Ponte was asked if she was prepared to press charges against NATO personnel. She replied: "If I am not willing to do that, I am not in the right place. I must give up my mission." The Tribunal then announced that it had completed a study of possible NATO crimes, which Del Ponte was examining, and that the study was an appropriate response to public concerns about NATO's tactics. "It is very important for this tribunal to assert its authority over any and all authorities to the armed conflict within the former Yugoslavia." Was this a sign from heaven that the new millennium was going to be one of more equal justice? Could this really be? No, it couldn't. From official quarters, military and civilian, of the United States and Canada, came disbelief, shock, anger, denials ... "appalling" ... "unjustified". Del Ponte got the message. Four days after The Observer interview appeared, her office issued a statement: "NATO is not under investigation by the Office of the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia. There is no formal inquiry into the actions of NATO during the conflict in Kosovo."{3} And there wouldn't be, it was unnecessary to add. But the claim against NATO -- heretofore largely ignored by the American media -- was now out in the open. It was suddenly receiving a fair amount of publicity, and supporters of the bombing were put on the defensive. The most common argument made in NATO's defense, and against war-crime charges, has been that the death and devastation inflicted upon the civilian sector was "accidental". This claim, however, must be questioned in light of certain reports. For example, the commander of NATO's air war, Lt. Gen. Michael Short, declared at one point: If you wake up in the morning and you have no power to your house and no gas to your stove and the bridge you take to work is down and will be lying in the Danube for the next 20 years, I think you begin to ask, "Hey, Slobo, what's this all about? How much more of this do we have to withstand?"{4} General Short, said the New York Times, "hopes that the distress of the Yugoslav public will undermine support for the authorities in Belgrade."{5} At one point, NATO spokesman Jamie Shea added: "If President Milosevic really wants all of his population to have water and electricity all he has to do is accept NATO's five conditions and we will stop this campaign."{6} After the April NATO bombing of a Belgrade office building -- which housed political parties, TV and radio stations, 100 private companies, and more -- the Washington Post reported: Over the past few days, U.S. officials have been quoted as expressing the hope that members of Serbia's economic elite will begin to turn against Milosevic once they understand how much they are likely to lose by continuing to resist NATO demands.{7} Before missiles were fired into this building, NATO planners spelled out the risks: "Casualty Estimate 50-100 Government/Party employees. Unintended Civ Casualty Est: 250 -- Apts in expected blast radius."{8} The planners were saying that about 250 civilians living in nearby apartment buildings might be killed in the bombing. What do we have here? We have grown men telling each other: We'll do A, and we think that B may well be the result. But even if B does in fact result, we're saying beforehand -- as we'll insist afterward -- that it was unintended. Following World War II there was an urgent need for a permanent international criminal court to prosecute those accused of war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide, but the Cold War intervened. Finally, in 1998 in Rome, the nations of the world drafted the charter of The International Criminal Court. American negotiators, however, insisted on provisions in the charter that would, in essence, give the United States veto power over any prosecution through its seat on the Security Council. The American request was rejected, and primarily for this reason the US refused to join 120 other nations who supported the charter. The ICC is an instrument Washington can't control sufficiently to keep it from prosecuting American military and government officials. Senior US officials have explicitly admitted that this danger is the reason for their aversion to the proposed new court.{9} But this is clearly not the case with the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia. It's Washington's kind of international court, a court for the New World Order. NOTES 1. This and most of the other material concerning the complaint to the Tribunal mentioned here were transmitted to the author by Mandel and other complainants. 2. Press Release from Chief Prosecutor Louise Arbour, The Hague, May 13, 1999. 3. The Observer (London), December 26, 1999; Washington Times, December 30 and 31, 1999; New York Times, December 30, 1999 4. Washington Post, May 24, 1999, p.1 5. New York Times, May 13, 1999, p.1 6. NATO press conference, Brussels, May 25, 1999 7. Washington Post, April 22, 1999, p.18 8. Ibid., September 20, 1999, p.1 9. New York Times, December 2, 1998, p.1; January 3, 2000 The above is excerpted from "Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower" by William Blum http://members.aol.com/superogue/homepage.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 12:48:34 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Hannah's visions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barrett etal on the List. You ask some interesting questions here. Maybe it IS near impossible for a "sane" preson to write poetry. Also to what extent is poetry realy a productive thing, really helpful: I love writing but little am I interested in the output or reception per se altho I suppose one's success or lack of thereof might conflict with and/or or energise one's work. I know that I wrote (if not "better") with more passion and energy a) when I was grieving somewhat over the deaths of my father and father in law b) during the beginning of an estrangement from and coflict with my wife c)when I was in a rather strange "space" (albeit I wasnt hallucinating)..not hallucinating but certainly in a near- paranoid state. The grief or anger or whatever probably in my case were from my own inability or at that time ignorance of ways to manage things "logically" ...but human relationships (and I mean where parents friends & children are concernede) go very deep and very much into one's "vitals"... language is the lightening rod which can either conduct these powerful and sometimes suicidal emotions either away or into oneself. Hannah Weiner was(is?) an original but not "mad" .. in fact desapite her "strangeness" one is aware how very human is this fascination with words and language: for language is the first thing we hear from our mothers or fathers...I dont know much about Freud etal but many of those areas are relevant I think and the brain and the mind and the body itself(s)...well what is it or them? Certainly it SEEMS that we are constructed through and by the language...and it can get so that the whole world seems to be. Certainly through words is a big way we "picture it" so why not "picture" the words. They could seem to be the very cause and curse and possibly the power by which we find a joy in creation. Or at least to present the words, play with or arrange and rearrange the words. Think also of Robert Lowell and Sylvia Plath and what is the difference between John Berryman and Celan or what things they have in common and the torment suffered by these people..all the old romantic cliche's and connections between suffering and composition. How David Jones's marvelous In Parenthesis seems strangely "disconnected" from the Ist WW and Eliot etc seemed to ignore it: Pound was (was?) insane...surely another man tortured by words and the search for perfection as was maybe Laura Riding....with Stein we get a kind of solution: one goes "into" her poems or writings as into a process, which somewhat absorption is impossible with Hannah Weiner: her words shout at you.(Or do they?) They are THERE. You cant evade them: it seems that you are both created by and destroyed by the language but here is a fascinating individual and here is her (in this case) work..here is her powerful legacy...in fact the term "shouts" is maybe wrong as looking now at some of her writing in "In The American Tree", once one enters into her writing it talks to someone else and though herself and the reader etal..... it is a recollection collection collation con flation and conflammation of her thoughts and interactions: OMIT THE EDITING you thought you mentioned it over and you take out buts,ands, ifs, etcs.AND NO PERIODS the: AND NO PERIODS is in a very large font size which could be ( and maybe is) simultaneously a reference to the full stop and the indicator of pregnacy (how do I say that?!) and it is thus both a personal and a "language" work: it become "obsubjection" where the objective subjective complex intertwines ... AND NO PERIODS simultaneously fascinates disrupts shocks repels pulls ups disturbs.... her other "shaped" poems are all rather like (could be) a human figure: they are figured and through them it seems Weiner is trying to stop herself from "going over the brink" or to even continue. It is near as if she's struggling with the language itself: "Hannah is I SPELLLED donst continue WITH WORDS " where the donst continue and the Hannah I is spelled are sliding down a diagonal "precipice" or they into a "dive" and pull up like a dive bomber and ... later on she says in one up one down diagonal: "I just dont want anymore writing" but she continues and continues... In response to your input I would say that her life personality and any "disability" are integral with her writing: there is no escape from language. I see the hallucination as part of what she was and indeed it may have been a tragic dilemma but her writing may have pointed a "way out"..."Intropsection and Contemporary Poetry" by Alan Willliamson discusses poetry from this angle or direction of development through the personal and includes discussion of Ashbery, Berryman, the confessionals and certain more recent poets (at the time and is an interesting view of these things. Certainly she is or was a fascinating writer. Regards, Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barrett Watten" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 6:35 AM Subject: Hannah's visions > Hannah's visions, under the "I see words" rubric, were literally > hallucinations. She would see words and type what she saw. There was a > specific onset of this condition (when? how?), and I remember speaking with > her about how the words tended go away with medication. This may have been > an incentive not to medicate--so there was a tradeoff between the downside > of "symptoms" and feeling emotionally upbeat about getting a lot of writing > done--by hallucination. > > It seems that one could go one of two directions here. Acknowledge that the > words that came were "symptoms" of an underlying illness and then decide on > the relation of that condition to their literary value, or suspend that > decision--no matter what produced them, they were re-presented in literary > form and hence a part of "shaping" sensibility, possessing form and > intention. Certainly her work with "codes" in the 60s influenced her sense > of the value of these phenomena. > > It's not a simple either/or question, but not asking it, I think, gets a > lot simpler result in terms of reading or responding to Hannah's work and > self-presentation. Is she in a special "category of one" as a writer who > sees the words that she writes? Should a book about Hannah Weiner be > classified under "disability studies," "neurology," "psychology," in > addition to poetry? To what extent does the psychobiology of her writing > practice challenge the literariness of her work? > > When we think of the various automatisms that have been put forward as an > answer to reason in 20th-century poetry, do we have to qualify these > phenomena in terms of some kind of self-conscious method in order for them > to be "literary"? What is the status of Hannah's "literal" transcription of > automatism vs. what Breton wanted from it? Would Breton have approved of > Hannah's work? Is her work more akin to "art brut," an "outsider" art that > needs the recognition of a museum or collector (or archive!) to validate it? > > In beginning to think about these things, I'd suggest it's important that > there was a conflict in the nature of intentionality in Hannah's work, at > the very least--medicate and stop hallucinations, cease medication and > hallucinate. How to think about the nature of such a decision? > > BW ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 12:49:32 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: CLOSING OF ANTI-LAUREATE POLLS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Of course he did who is or was he of course he did. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Massoni" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 1:44 PM Subject: Re: CLOSING OF ANTI-LAUREATE POLLS > Did the Marlboro man write? > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 05:18:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: neuro daemon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hannah Weiner may have "seen" words, but how does reason do it? If it is "logos," a kind of speaking (ie not a kind of seeing), as it was for Socrates, then it too can operate like a daemon (aie, lots of proof of that!). Socrates "tuned in" to the daemon's voice and ventriloquized - for which/whom he would rather sacrifice his life (and did, of course), than have the state censor him from ever speaking its "truth" again in public. louis cabri ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 09:41:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 6 Jul 2001 to 7 Jul 2001 (#2001-100) In-Reply-To: <20010708040500.039431B789@mail.angel.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Contact: Cary Goldstein, 212-274-0343, ext. 12 The Academy of American Poets & The Institute for Learning Technologies at Columbia University present Tuesday, July 17, 2001 at 5:30 p.m. Robert Creeley & Claudia Rankine Wednesday, July 18, 2001 at 5:30 p.m. Eleni Sikelianos & Forrest Gander Thursday, July 19, 2001 at 5:30 p.m. Cole Swensen & Stacy Doris Friday, July 20, 2001 at 5:30 p.m. Charles Bernstein & Harryette Mullen Where: Columbia University Campus Broadway & 116th Street in Manhattan Building and room to be determined Please call (212) 274-0343, Ext. 10 or visit our website at www.poets.org or www.onlinepoetryclassroom.org Admission: Free ********** Rebecca Wolff Fence et al. 14 Fifth Avenue, #1A New York, NY 10011 http://www.fencemag.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 10:30:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: _1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - _1 Nikuko under hot burned sun: Nikuko flesh turned red: seared Nikuko-flesh Nikuko charred nipple: charred cock: Nikuko-skin sloughed: fallen-flaked You say, "MIAMI! bad-dream turn-real! MIAMI! perfect-model Nikuko-flesh: yours" You say, "Yours, MIAMI!" Nikuko's "Yours, MIAMI!" perfect-model Nikuko-flesh reverberation Nikuko perfect-model MIAMI! charred eyes burned: You say, "I cannot see!" You say, "I cannot see!"" Nikuko's "I cannot see!" of blind MIAMI! charred hot sun: It is photographer You say, "It is photographer cannot see." You say, "It is photographer looking and looking." You say, "think I will make Nikuko-flesh photographer game." Nikuko think I will make Nikuko-flesh photographer game. Nikuko turning over You say, "photographer you are trembling cannot see" You say, "photographer you are filming turning lens" You say, "photographer you are pressing shudder-shutter in"" You say, "you are release shudder-shutter" Nikuko think "You say, "you are release shudder-shutter" Nikuko's think it is perfect MIAMI! charred Nikuko-red-flesh day Nikuko charred nipple "You say, "photographer charred cock" You say, "It is photographer looking and looking." Nikuko say "photographer lens chain me You say, "chain to me, photographer" You say, "you see hot Nikuko-flesh reverberation: "You say, "I cannot see!""" You say, "I chain to you photographer" You say, "I cannot see" #-1:Input to EVAL, line 3: Variable not found ... called from built-in function eval() ... called from #58:eval_cmd_string (this == #934), line 19 ... called from #58:eval*-d (this == #934), line 13 _0 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 12:25:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r...curiculum vitae "bizbee...needles, california"..."Barnard College and Writers Workshop, University of Iowa"..."outlawish poet's life"...."N.Y.School of Poetry"..."never anything..a poet"..."more..20 books of poetry"..."S.F. poetry award"...."two-time NEA grant recipient"...."a NYFA fellowship"..."several awards The Fund for Poetry"..."Paris"...............just connect the dots.....DRn.... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 13:39:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: CLOSING OF ANTI-LAUREATE POLLS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know if he writes, but he does act. Actor John Goodman was a Marlboro man in his more svelte days. Best, Patrick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Massoni" To: Sent: Friday, 06 July, 2001 9:44 PM Subject: Re: CLOSING OF ANTI-LAUREATE POLLS > Did the Marlboro man write? > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 08:02:51 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Meg Brooks Subject: Re: Poets in Film MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Forgive me if someone has already mentioned these 206 films. Meg Brooks Character name search The character 'poet' (using whole word searching) has been played by; Male characters: 1.Steve Abee (Frustrated cafe poet) . . . Man Woman Film (1999) 2.Alfred Abel (Knips the Poet) . . . Hofkonzert, Das (1936) 3.Luis Alberni (Pincus, the poet) . . . Children of the Ghetto (1915) 4.John Alderman (Beach Ball Poet) . . . Video Vixens (1975) 5.Melkop Aleksanyan (Poet as a child) . . . Sayat Nova (1968) 6.Craig Anton (Poet) . . . Mail Bonding (1995) 7.Louis Aragón (Himself (Surrealist poet)) . . . Coeur à barbe, Le (1930) 8.Billy Armstrong (I) (Poet) . . . Tramp, The (1915) 9.Frank Arnold (I) (Poet) . . . Above Suspicion (1943) 10.Riyu Bajaj (Young Poet) . . . In Custody (1993) 11.Antoine Balpêtré (Poet) . . . Une fille pour l'été (1959) 12.Amiri Baraka (Himself (poet, activist)) . . . "Eyes on the Prize II" (1990) (mini) TV Series 13.Jacques Becker (The Sleepy Poet) . . . Boudu sauvé des eaux (1932) 14.Ýlhami Bekir (The poet) . . . At (1982) 15.Szabo Bente Robert (Poet 1) . . . Fantasma dell'opera, Il (1998) 16.Fabrizio Bentivoglio (The Poet) . . . Mia aiwniothta kai mia mera (1998) 17.George Beranger (The Poet) . . . Age for Love, The (1931) 18.Sven Bergvall (President of Poet's Academy) . . . Excellensen (1944) 19.Bruce Bohne (The Poet) . . . Little Girl Fly Away (1998) (TV) 20.Charles Borromel (Whitefaced Poet) . . . Gidget Goes to Rome (1963) 21.Himmoud Brahimi (Momo, the poet) . . . Tahia ya didou! (1971) 22.John Brent (Poet) . . . Greenwich Village Story (1963) 23.André Breton (Himself (poet, founder of Surrealism)) . . . Coeur à barbe, Le (1930) 24.Dallas Brock (Street Poet) . . . Nadir (1996) 25.Jan Bucquoy (Andreas/dada poet) . . . Vie sexuelle des Belges 1950-1978, La (1994) 26.Joseph Buloff (Bohemian poet) . . . "Two Girls Named Smith" (1951) TV Series 27.Vittorio Caprioli (A Poet) . . . Mito, Il (1963) 28.Robert Carter (I) (Poet) . . . Montaña sagrada, La (1975) 29.Dominik Castell (Street Poet) . . . Before Sunrise (1995) 30.Marco Cavicchioli (The poet) . . . Nerolio (1996) 31.Iranli Celai (The poet) . . . Su da yanar (1987) 32.Petr Cepek (poet Petr Hudec) . . . Hotel pro cizince (1967) 33.Renato Chiantoni (The Court Poet) . . . Rigoletto e la sua tragedia (1954) 34.Jean Cocteau (Himself, the Poet) . . . Testament d'Orphée, Le (1960) 35.Kelly Connell (Yuppie Poet) . . . Cocktail (1988) 36.Captain Jack Crawford (Poet Scout) . . . Battle Cry of Peace, The (1915) 37.Robert Creeley (Himself (poet)) . . . Kerouac, the Movie (1985) 38.Emilio Cubeiro (The Poet) . . . Subway Rider (1981) 39.Steve Curtis (I) (Poet) . . . Femalien II (1998) 40.Nigel De Brulier (The poet) . . . Pursuit of the Phantom, The (1914) 41.Sebastian DeVicente (Manuel Teobaldo Cruz Sierra - "The Poet") . . . Colonel's Last Flight, The (2000) 42.William Dieterle (The Poet-The Baker-A Russian Prince) . . . Wachsfigurenkabinett, Das (1923) 43.Vincent Donahue (Alain Chartier, court poet) . . . Joan of Arc (1948) 44.James DuMont (Poet) . . . 52nd St. Serenade (1992) 45.Allan Edwall (Poet) . . . Ingen morgondag (1957) 46.Henry Edwards (I) (The Poet) . . . Poet's Windfall, The (1918) 47.Greg Evaghelathos (Poet) . . . Thiassos, O (1975) 48.Peter Eyre (Cinna the Poet) . . . Julius Caesar (1970) 49.Michel Fau (Ragueneau's 2nd Poet) . . . Cyrano de Bergerac (1990) 50.Lawrence Ferlinghetti (Himself (poet)) . . . Kerouac, the Movie (1985) 51.Roman Filippov (poet Lyapis-Trubetskoi) . . . 12 stulyev (1971) 52.John Fortune (I) (Poet) . . . Timon of Athens (1981) (TV) 53.Theodore Fraenkel (Himself (Surrealist poet)) . . . Coeur à barbe, Le (1930) 54.D. Francesco (Poet) . . . Take Off (1978) 55.Bob Franklin (I) (Poet at the Window) . . . "Home and Hosed" (1998) TV Series 56.Erik Frey (I) (Second `Precious' Poet) . . . Cyrano de Bergerac (1990) 57.Vilen Galstyan (Poet in the cloister) . . . Sayat Nova (1968) 58.David Gascoyne (Himself (surrealist poet)) . . . Drug-Taking and the Arts (1994) 59.Giorgi Gegechkori (Poet as an old man) . . . Sayat Nova (1968) 60.Cristiano Gentili ("contemporary poet" Alvaro Rissa) . . . Ecce Bombo (1978) 61.Mark Gilliland (II) (Poet) . . . Seeking Winonas (2001) 62.Allen Ginsberg (Himself (poet)) . . . "Fifties, The" (1997) (mini) TV Series 63.Allen Ginsberg (Himself (poet)) . . . Drug-Taking and the Arts (1994) 64.Allen Ginsberg (Himself (poet)) . . . Kerouac, the Movie (1985) 65.Jerome Goldman (Jail Class Poet "Why") . . . Slam (1998) 66.Russell Gruebner (Cinna-the poet) . . . Julius Caesar (1950) 67.Fabrice Guinard (Poet) . . . Joy (1983) 68.Miklos Gyulai (Campus Poet) . . . Meatcleaver Massacre (1977) 69.Eero Haapaniemi (Poet) . . . Karvat (1974) 70.Robert Haas (III) (Poet) . . . Wildflowers (1999) 71.Nayeem Hafizka (Young Poet) . . . In Custody (1993) 72.Albert Hall (II) (Class Poet) . . . Struggle Everlasting, The (1918) 73.Robert Haufrecht (Poet) . . . Don't Explain (2002) 74.Ram John Holder (Poet) . . . My Beautiful Laundrette (1985) 75.Boyd Holister (Old Man Poet) . . . Verses (1999) 76.Bob Holman (Hat Poet) . . . Verses (1999) 77.Gustaw Holoubek (Poet) . . . Lawa. Opowiesc o 'Dziadach' Adama Mickiewicza. (1989) 78.Israel Horovitz (Poet) . . . Sunshine (1999) 79.John Hostetter (Poet) . . . Heart Beat (1980) 80.Lionelle Howard (The Poet) . . . Spies (1915) 81.Sean Hughes (I) (Poet) . . . "Gormenghast" (2000) (mini) TV Series 82.Karel Höger (Poet) . . . Kam s ním (1955) 83.Reginald Jessup (Poet) . . . Julius Caesar (1979/I) (TV) 84.Kubhaer T. Jethwani (Da Poet) . . . Lips to Lips (2000) 85.Rodney Johnson (Jazz Poet) . . . Verses (1999) 86.I. Stanford Jolley (King Invader, beat poet) . . . Rebel Set, The (1959) 87.Erland Josephson (The poet) . . . Drömspel, Ett (1980) (TV) 88.Judge (The poet) . . . In God's Hands (1998) 89.Howard Keel (Hajj, the Poet) . . . Kismet (1955) 90.Farhan Khan (Young Poet) . . . In Custody (1993) 91.Yusuf Khurram (Young Poet) . . . In Custody (1993) 92.Morris Kight (Grumpy Poet) . . . Leather Jacket Love Story (1998) 93.Kalle Kirjavainen (Poet) . . . Kirkastettu sydän (1943) 94.Selim Koder (Selim - The Poet) . . . Red Lipstick (2000) 95.Fyodor Konovalov (Poet) . . . Kontsert dlya crysy (1995) 96.András Kozák (Poet) . . . Ady-novellák (1978) (TV) 97.Karl Ferdinand Kratzl (Poet) . . . Wanted (1999/II) 98.Helmut Käutner (Poet) . . . Romanze in Moll (1943) 99.Murray Lachlan Young (Gallows Poet) . . . Plunkett & Macleane (1999) 100.Åke Lagergren (The Poet) . . . Chans (1962) 101.Andrzej Lapicki (Poet) . . . Wesele (1972) 102.Tony Leung Chiu Wai (Poet) . . . Xich lo (1995) 103.Donald Lev (Poet) . . . Putney Swope (1969) 104.Jean-Louis Loca (Poet in the garden) . . . Vie moderne, La (1999) 105.Kalle Luotonen (Pyökki, poet) . . . Aika hyvä ihmiseksi (1977) 106.Joe Madden (Old Poet) . . . Next Stop, Greenwich Village (1976) 107.Ahmed Madha (Poet) . . . Hideous Kinky (1998) 108.Taylor Mali (Slam Poet "Like") . . . Slam (1998) 109.Stephen Malkmus (Coffeehouse poet) . . . Sweethearts (1996) 110.Howard Malpas (Poet) . . . Method, The (1989) 111.Mammooty (Chandra Das (Poet & Writer)) . . . Padhayam (1993) 112.Octavio Martínez (I) (Sánchez, the poet) . . . Calandria, La (1933) 113.Michael McClure (I) (Himself (poet)) . . . Kerouac, the Movie (1985) 114.Andrew McFarlane (The Poet) . . . Simply Irresistible (1999) 115.Roger McGough (Himself, Liverpool Poet) . . . Rutles, The (1978) (TV) 116.Gary Merrill (The poet) . . . Savage Eye, The (1960) 117.David Mir (Poet) . . . Escapade (1932) 118.Richard Moll (Poet) . . . American Pop (1981) 119.Henning Moritzen (The poet) . . . Poeten og Lillemor og Lotte (1960) 120.Jimmy Ryan Morris (The Poet/Doc Holliday) . . . Short Films: 1976 (1976) 121.Takao Murase (Hajime (Korean-Japanese resident, poet, carlifter)) . . . Ensei Fufu (1998) 122.Nicolás Navarro (The Poet) . . . Agua en el suelo, El (1934) 123.Vincent Nemeth (Ragueneau's 1st Poet) . . . Cyrano de Bergerac (1990) 124.A. Ngebrov (Derzhaven, the poet) . . . Junost poeta (1937) 125.Din Tho Nguyen (Poet's Father) . . . Xich lo (1995) 126.Jack Nicholson ("Poet") . . . Hells Angels on Wheels (1967) 127.Munawwar Noqwi (Young Poet) . . . In Custody (1993) 128.Joseph O'Donnell (Poet) . . . Quare Fellow, The (1962) 129.Simo Osa (Poet) . . . Nuoria ihmisiä (1943) 130.Blake Osborne (Beat Poet) . . . Kangaroo Palace (1997) (TV) 131.Per Oscarsson (The poet) . . . Bulan (1990) 132.George R. Parsons (Lignière the Poet) . . . Cyrano de Bergerac (1985) (TV) 133.Benjamin Peret (Himself (Surrealist poet)) . . . Coeur à barbe, Le (1930) 134.Tom Peters (I) (Poet) . . . Gaily, Gaily (1969) 135.Eric Picou (First `Precious' Poet) . . . Cyrano de Bergerac (1990) 136.Robert Pizani (Poet) . . . Homme du jour, L' (1936) 137.Tomas Pontén (Poet (segment 2)) . . . "Ringlek" (1982) (mini) TV Series 138.Victor Potel (The Poet) . . . At the Sign of the Jack O'Lantern (1922) 139.Gerry Quigley (I) (Poet) . . . Falling for You (1995) (TV) 140.Per Ragnar (Skalden/The poet) . . . Domaren (1974) (TV) 141.Zoltán Rajkai (Poet 2) . . . Fantasma dell'opera, Il (1998) 142.Alan Reed (I) (The Poet) . . . "Andy's Gang" (1955) TV Series 143.Oliver Reed (Poet) . . . His and Hers (1961) 144.Remo Remotti (Poet) . . . Cuba libre - velocipedi ai tropici (1997) 145.DJ Renegade (Party Poet 'Diminuendo in Blue') . . . Slam (1998) 146.Fernand René (Citizen-poet) . . . Si Versailles m'était conté (1954) 147.Georges Ribemont-Dessaignes (Himself (Surrealist poet)) . . . Coeur à barbe, Le (1930) 148.Enrique Rivero (Poet) . . . Sang d'un poète, Le (1930) 149.Tage Romberg (Poet) . . . "Kirjava silta" (2000) (mini) TV Series 150.Sanjay Mohan Sagar (Young Poet) . . . In Custody (1993) 151.Hans Sahl (II) (Himself (rescued poet)) . . . Assignment: Rescue (1997) 152.Paul Sand (II) (Poet) . . . Subterraneans, The (1960) 153.Ken Sansom (Chamberlain/Poet/Wiseman) . . . Nutcracker Fantasy (1979) 154.Gerry Sarracini (Poet) . . . "Sunshine Sketches" (1952) TV Series 155.Veerendra Saxena (Young Poet) . . . In Custody (1993) 156.Tom Seiler (2nd Poet) . . . Man in the Iron Mask, The (1998/II) 157.Luis Sepúlveda (Poet) . . . Gabbianella e il gatto, La (1998) 158.Pablo Serra (The Poet/El Poeta) . . . Ciudad y los perros, La (1985) 159.Robert W. Service (The Poet) . . . Spoilers, The (1942) 160.Sharrif Simmons (Poet) . . . Panther (1995) 161.Peter Siteri (Poet) . . . Hurlyburly (1998) 162.Michael Snider (Walt Whitman (the poet)) . . . Delicate Art of the Rifle, The (1997) 163.Carl Solomon (Himself (poet)) . . . Kerouac, the Movie (1985) 164.Philippe Soupault (Himself (Surrealist poet)) . . . Coeur à barbe, Le (1930) 165.Sreco Spik (Poet) . . . Operacija Cartier (1991) 166.Bjørn Sundquist (Poet) . . . Drømspel (1994) 167.Cole Swenson (Poet) . . . Forever (1978) (TV) 168.Javen Tanner (Poet) . . . Windrunner (1995) 169.Tim Thomerson (Poet) . . . Border to Border (1998) 170.John Tordoff (Cinna the Poet) . . . Julius Caesar (1979/I) (TV) 171.Petr Traxler (Poet) . . . O trech rytírích, krásné paní a lnené kytli (1996) 172.Risto Veste (Young poet) . . . Nuoria ihmisiä (1943) 173.Pentti Viljanen (Seppo Sointula the poet) . . . Oi, aika vanha, kultainen...! (1942) 174.Nikolai Volkov Ml. (A poet) . . . Zhenshchina, kotoraya poyot (1977) 175.Jay Ward (III) (Poet) . . . Puddle Cruiser (1996) 176.Frank Welker (Clockwork Smurf/Hefty Smurf/Peewit/Poet Smurf/Puppy) . . . "Smurfs, The" (1981) TV Series 177.O.Z. Whitehead (Cinna, the Poet) . . . Julius Caesar (1953) 178.Kenneth Wickes (Paul the Poet) . . . Bloody Brood, The (1959) 179.Michael Wilson (III) (Surrealist Poet) . . . Moderns, The (1988) 180.John Wood (I) (Poet) . . . Rebel, The (1961) 181.Yevgeni Yevtushenko (Himself (Soviet poet)) . . . "Cold War" (1998) (mini) TV Series 182.Stavros Zalmas (The Poet) . . . North of Vortex (1991) 183.muMs da Schemer (Prisoner #96J332/98J332 Arnold "Poet" Jackson) . . . "Oz" (1997) TV Series 184.Paul Éluard (Himself (Surrealist poet)) . . . Coeur à barbe, Le (1930) Female characters: 1.Margaret Atwood (Writer/Poet) . . . Not a Love Story: A Film About Pornography (1981) 2.Ghetty Chasun (Poet) . . . Demolition Highway (1996) 3.Sofiko Chiaureli (Young/Poet's Love/Nun/Mime) . . . Sayat Nova (1968) 4.Anik Day (Young Poet) . . . In Custody (1993) 5.Bui Thi Mingh Duc (Poet's Mother) . . . Xich lo (1995) 6.Christina Ray Eichman (Slacker Poet) . . . Verses (1999) 7.Karen Hadfield (Woman Poet) . . . Only the Brave (1994) 8.Barbara Hamilton (Poet's Wife) . . . "Sunshine Sketches" (1952) TV Series 9.Gail Harris (I) (Poet) . . . Men: A Passion Playground (1985) 10.Dyanna Lauren (Poet's lover) . . . Sheepless in Montana (1993) (V) 11.Francine Lembi (Poet) . . . Chu Chu and the Philly Flash (1981) 12.Colette Mann (I) (Betty the Bush Poet) . . . Dish, The (2000) 13.Kathe E. Mazur (Linda Jo (Poet)) . . . Murder 101 (1991) (TV) 14.Pina Menichelli (Poet) . . . Fuoco (la favilla - la vampa - la cenere), Il (1915) 15.Jessie Nelson (Poet) . . . Hoggs' Heaven (1994) (TV) 16.Liza Jessie Peterson (Slam Poet "Ice Cream") . . . Slam (1998) 17.Ellen Rooney (Deaf Poet) . . . Verses (1999) 18.Sharon Samples (Woman Poet) . . . Verses (1999) 19.Irma St. Paule (Poet) . . . Twelve Monkeys (1995) 20.Heather Thatcher (Nadine Wentworth, the Poet) . . . Mama Steps Out (1937) 21.Gwendolyn Whiteside (Poet) . . . Life Sentence (2000) 22.Renée Zellweger (Poet) . . . Low Life, The (1994/I) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 10:24:20 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Meg Brooks Subject: Re: Poets in Film. Part 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit More films. Same database, different search. Meg Brooks ------------------ Beautiful Dreamers (1990) In an insane asylum, Dr. Maurice Bucke, meets poet Walt Whitman, his life and that of his... Before Night Falls (2000) Episodic look at the life of Cuban poet and novelist, Reinaldo Arenas... BOMgaY (1996) Based on the gay poetry of R. Raj Rao... Disparus (1998) 1938... In that year, Alfred, worker and poet, is politically active in a Parisian ... En compagnie d'Antonin Artaud (1994) May, 1946, in Paris young poet Jacques Prevel meets Antonin Artaud... Fat Man on a Beach (1973) (TV) A poet of forty wanders about the beach, changes his clothes when he feels like it, reads his poetry, reminisces engagingly, and reflects... Falsk som vatten (1985) John and Carl have a small publishing company. One day John meets the poet Clara who recently made her debut ... Fine Madness, A (1966) Samson Shillitoe, a frustrated poet and a magnet for women, is behind in his alimony payments, and lives with Rhoda, a waitress who stands by him through all his troubles. Samson becomes belligerent when he cannot find the inspiration to finish his big poem so Rhoda tries to get him to see the psychiatrist Dr. West, who claims to be able to cure writer's block.... Freddy & Victor blind date (1997) ... in Rome and London. He is an actor and poet, lives in Rome and gets by "doing the.... Great McGonagall, The (1974) The tale of an unemployed Scotsman, William McGonagall whose ambition was to become England's Poet Laureate. One minor drawback is that his poetry is terrible. Harms Case, The (1988) Based upon the life and writing of literary visionary Danil Harms, a Russian avant-garde poet of the 1920s who was persecuted and ultimately silenced by the Soviet authorities. Hedd Wyn (1992) A young poet living in the North Wales countryside competes for the most coveted prize of all in Welsh Poetry - that of the chair of the National ... Hoggs' Heaven (1994) (TV) Having won a small poetry competition, William Hogg invites his parents to his apartment for a simple, celebratory dinner. Clearly, he's forgotten his family's penchant for drunken, kleptomaniacal lunacy. A high-spirited comic nightmare. Iddy Biddy Beat Boy (1993) A parable about art, propriety, and politics. A hip beat poet, who looks a lot like a child, reads poetry at the Ad Hoc Cafe; he's a success and Mr. Hipster, a powerful promoter, gets Iddy Biddy Beat's career moving with TV appearances, where the poet is a sensation. However, his poetry scandalizes Dr. Proper and his uptight wife, who arrange for Beat's arrest and imprisonment. Joe Gould's Secret (2000) Around 1940, New Yorker staff writer Joe Mitchell meets Joe Gould, a Greenwich Village character who cadges meals, drinks, and contributions to the Joe Gould Fund and who is writing a voluminous Oral History of the World, a record of 20,000 conversations he's overheard. Mitchell is fascinated with this Harvard grad and writes a 1942 piece about him, "Professor Seagull," bringing Gould some celebrity and an invitation to join the Greenwich Village Ravens, a poetry club he's often crashed. Keep the Aspidistra Flying (1997) Gordon Comstock is a copywriter at an ad agency, and his girlfriend Rosemary is a designer. Gordon believes he is a genius, a marvelous poet and quits the ad agency, trying to live on his poems, but poverty soon comes to him. Kleine blonde dood, De (1993) The poet Valentijn Boecke meets his former teacher Mieke. They have a short relation. After a while Mieke appears to be pregnant. Lado oscuro del corazón, El (1992) Oliveiro is a young poet living in Buenos Aires where sometimes he has to sale his ideas to an advertising agencie to make a living or exchange his poems for a steak. In Montevideo, he met a prostitute, Ana, with whom he fell in love. Back in Buenos Aires, he accept a contract with a publicity agencie to get the money for three days of love with her. .Leonard Cohen, Spring 1996 (1997) The film shows the daily life of the poet and singer Leonard Cohen at the Mount ... Lichnoye delo Anny Akhmatovoy (1989) look at the life of Russian poet, Anna Akhmatova, 1889-1966. It begins and ends with footage from her funeral, and includes readings from her diaries and of her poems. Also included are passages of official Soviet criticism. She was born near Odessa, married and published her first volume of poetry in 1912, was a friend of Blok... Life and Times of Allen Ginsberg, The (1993) the life and work of the greatest poet of the Beat Generation. Along with the usual biographical details, we also get to experience the poet's readings of his work such as his... Looking for Langston (1988) ...are framed by voices reading from the poetry and essays of Hughes and others. The Los Enchiladas! (1999) ...... and the "Chef" has jumped ship to join a beatnik poet's group which specializes in exotic menu-writing.... Love Jones (1997) Darius Lovehall is a young black poet in Chicago who starts dating Nina Moseley, a beautiful and talented photographer. While trying to figure out if they've got a "love thing" or are just "kicking it," they hang out with their friend, talking about love and sex. Love Lesson, The (1995) Seventeen years ago Camille, a gallery owner, and Grace, a civil servant, made a verbal adoption agreement: Grace would raise Camille's son Christopher with the provision that all three live in close proximity, and that the existence of the arrangement be kept from the child forever. This triangle changes drastically when Christopher, now a heterosexual teenager, becomes HIV-positive through sex and drugs and is thrown into maturity much too early. Camille lives her life in the New York art world, and poets and writers regularly gather at her apartment to read their work. The poets' voices echoing across the common courtyard to Chris become the continuous physical bridge between their lives. Via courtyard windows and the resonance of sound, a mystical link forms as Camille steps into a role in his life that she never really wanted nor would have imagined. Luces de bohemia (1985) In the empty house of his family, Ramon, a poet, remembers the last day of the life of his master: the last time he went out with his friend don Latino de Hispalis... Lunatics: A Love Story (1991) A delusional and paranoid poet hallucinates and almost becomes a serial killer, but saves a beautiful girl from street-gang members and becomes a hero. Mail Bonding (1995) "Mail Bonding" is a romantic comedy about a struggling poet who takes a humorous but dangerous route by falling in love with his mail carrier, a woman with a troubled past. Told in the silent film style with digital effects. Middle of the Moment (1995) The film is a documentary or even a cinepoem which follows the life of nowadays nomads: The Tuareg in North Africa, a circus company and the American philosopher and poet 'Robert Lax'. Mr. Deeds Goes to Town (1936) Deeds a simple-hearted greeting card poet... North of Vortex (1991) A gay poet heads west from New York City in his convertible. He picks up a muscular sailor .... Nostalghia (1983) The Russian poet Gortchakov, accompanied by guide and translator Eugenia, is traveling through Italy researching the life of an 18th century Russian composer. In a ancient spa town, he meets the lunatic Domenico.... Pesma (1961/I) An influential Serbian poet decides to leave Nazi-occupied Belgrade and join partisans in the country. A young resistance activist, however, is not so thrilled with the idea because the old and womanizing intellectual doesn't fit in with his strict moralistic standards. Piñero (2001) "Piñero" tells the story of the explosive life of a Latino icon, the poet-playwright-actor Miguel Piñero, whose urban poetry is recognized as a pre-cursor to rap and hip-hop. Poetry in Motion (1982)(1998) ...20 contemporary North American poets recite, sing, and perform their work. Several also comment. Pratibha (1937) The poet Prasad (K. Date) lives far from the city in a forest, enjoying only the company of his wife Pratibha (Khote). The court poet Kaveeshwar (Phatak) of a neighbouring kingdom discovers Prasad's poetry and.... Puisi tak terkuburkan (2000) Tells the true story of the didong (a style of ballad) poet Ibrahim Kadir. He was in prison and was present during the mass killings of an estimated 500,000 suspected communists when Indonesian President Suharto came to power in 1965. His humanistic poems recreate that era. Sånger från andra våningen (2000) A film poem inspired by the poet Caesar Vallejo.... Shadowlands (1985) ...agrees to marry the divorced American poet Joy Davidman Gresham, to allow her and... Siekierezada (1987) A young, idealistic poet, turns his back on civilization and goes to small, backwood village, rents a bed in the house of an old woman, and decides to make his living as a lumberjack. Stevie (1978) This movie portrays British poet/author Stevie Smith (Glenda Jackson) Student Nurses, The (1970) ...One falls for a poet... 1 Swann (1996) ...life of Mary Swann, an obscure Canadian poet who was brutally murdered by her lover... Tongues Untied (1991) from other gay Black men, especially poet Essex Hemphill, celebrates Black men loving Black men as a revolutionary act. The film intercuts footage of Hemphill reciting his poetry... Ulysses (1967) ...Dedalus, who fancies himself as a poet, embarks on a day of wandering about ... Wesele (1972) ...century, the story concerns a Polish poet living in Cracow who has decided to... Wilde (1997) The story of Oscar Wilde, genius, poet, playwright and the First Modern Man. Winter Meeting (1948) Spinster poetess Susan Grieve lives in a Manahattan ... Yakantalisa (1996) ...choreographer, multi-media artist, and poet who died of AIDS in 1994... Zerkalo (1975) The director mixes flashbacks, historical footage and original poetry to illustrate the reminiscences of a dying man about his childhood during World War II, adolescence, and a painful divorce in his family. The story interweaves reflections about Russian history and society. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:23:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Walter K. Lew" Subject: Inquiry: Ecological poetry? Comments: cc: aaka@earthlink.net, chang9@uiuc.edu, Juliana_Chang@yahoo.com, pikeda@dnai.com, ifenkl@aol.com, mullen@humnet.ucla.edu, max@oingo.com, ggg@well.com, sesshu@earthlink.net, frances@angel.net, rwolff@angel.net, Normacole@aol.com, rleong@ucla.edu, qing@ucla.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I have been asked to participate in a poetry seminar in S. Korea at the end of July and need some help from yr expertise. I was originally only supposed to give a reading and a lecture on Yi Sang (for YS, cf. Poems for the Milliennium, vol. 1, or Muae 1 [1995]), but now I have also been asked to address the theme of the environment/ecology in American poetry. I am glad to do so, but wd appreciate more leads as to which poets/critics to read in this regard, aside from an obvious one like Gary Snyder (a personal favorite is actually Jim Morrison on when the music's over). The pastoral dimension of U.S. poetry is somewhat related to this, of c, but often as an attempt at a transcendence of history, whereas "ecological poetry" wd seem to refer to a politically direct engagement/confrontation w civilizing, industrial, or Kapital-driven damage to ecosystems (tho' Marx was no defender of pristine Nature, and pastoral poetry, whether Chinese or British, obviously required that the wilderness be tamed.) I think there wd have been a lot of Sixties writing on this topic, e.g. Bly, in combination w protest against the Vietnam War, but I mainly read a different type of 60s poetry. Or has a favorite poet of the so-called "tree huggers" emerged? Any help will be appreciated and, if you prefer, please back-channel. I am open to suggestions for both poetry and incisive scholarship, anywhere in the range between dithyrambs in defense of Gaia to suburban serenading of a front lawn. Thanks, Walter P.S. If anyone on the Poetics list is in Korea, drop me a line--Let's meet! -- Walter K. Lew 11811 Venice Blvd. #138 Los Angeles, CA 90066 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 01:04:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: readable titles: from four piles of books at a distance in our loft: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - readable titles: from four piles of books at a distance in our loft: being and nothingness, harlem renaissance reader, how to be polite in japanese, cover to cover, the holographic paradigm, studies in phenomenology and psychology, under the sea wind, the japanese print, the sea around us, tcp/ip network administration, zen buddhism: a history, himalayan art, tantra of the great liberation, the jew in the text, theatre in the east, official nikon manual, 50 maps of l.a., on bataille, windows ce, poetics journal 10, the quest for sumer, world atlas :a japanese miscellany, the world of goods, dream and reality, man and the computer, singular rebellion, phedre, shadowings, the complete essays of montaigne, writings of the young marx on philosophy and history, i ching, gedichte / hyperion, a history of philosophy, the poems of catullus, the buddha's philosophy of man, the agricola and the germania, ideas, the purgatorio, three tales, the kojiki, the teachings of the compassionate buddha, latin :theoretical foundations of multimedia, mac os in a nutshell, easy japanese, remediation, alire, the tibetan book of the dead, existence and being, hamlet on the holodeck, the annotated baseball stories of ring w. lardner, bardo teachings, the cybercultures reader, topology, the sense and non-sense of revolt, modern chinese: a basic course, 98.6, the language of new media, the philosophy of no, say it in swahili, consilience, li chi: book of rites, word score utterance choreography in verbal and visual poetry, island, no great mischief, introduction to artificial life, the columbia anthology of traditional chinese literature, dr. dobb's journal, sots art, sed & awk pocket reference, vi editor pocket reference :: final cut pro, kojiki, reading digital culture, the art of arts _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:27:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Basinski Subject: The @tached Document and Cello In-Reply-To: <20010708040503.3739.qmail@front.acsu.buffalo.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm looking for the addresses/subscription price for these magazines: The @tached Document ed by Jeff Chester, Derek Fenner, Todd McCaty and Cello ed. Rick Snyder. The Poetry/Rare Bks Collection/SUNY wants to subscribe. contact: basinski@acsu.buffalo.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 10:11:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcella Durand Subject: summer sublet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Eleni Sikelianos asked me to post this: Large loft-like two-bedroom on Lower East Side in New York City, July 20 to late August, $2000, two cats included. E-mail Sikelianos@aol.com if interested. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 14:56:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kiwi Subject: New titles from Green Integer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends, It's been a long while now that I've been slightly incognito, with = numerous e-mail problems. But that has finally been corrected and Douglas Messerli and Green = Integer are back on line. My new e-mail address is djmess@greeninteger.com although my older = e-mails will still be forwarded. Green Integer has been very busy this year, with about 20 new titles to = date. The most recent (published in the past few weeks) are those listed below. As usual, = individuals on this list receive a 20% discount. So when you order, please include $1.25 for postage and = subtract 20% for the list price. All checks for Green Integer should be made out to me, = Douglas Messerli. We are still awaiting our dba status, so the bank will not recognize Green = Integer yet. Here are some of our new titles: To Do: A Book of Alphabets and Birthdays by Gertrude Stein paper $9.95 = list To Do, published previously only in the Yale edition (500 copies) in = 1957, is now available for the first time in a separate book edition. Meant originally for = children, Stein planned this book as an orderly progression through the alphabet with four names for each = letter. But things quickly developed, spiraling out of silmple childlike progression, so that by = the time she reached the letter H, Henriette de Dactyl, a French typewriter (who exchanges typed = messages with Yetta von Blickens- dorfer, a German typewriter, and Mr. House, an American typewriter), = wants to live on Melon Street and eat radishes, salads, and fried fish and soup. By the time Stein had = completed this charming book, friends and editors thought it inapporopriate for children because = of its lack of episode. Stein refused to alter it, and it remained unpublished until the Yale = edition. Operratics by Michel Leiris, translated from the French by Guy Bennett = paperback $12.95 list This book, never before published in English, is a study of opera by the = great French poet, art critic, and anthropologist Michel Leiris. Leiris began his writing = career as a poet associated with the Surrealist group, but he later made major contributions as a art = critic and anthropologist, as well as through his great autogiobraphical confession, L'Age d'Homme = (Manhood). In Operratics Leiris turns his brilliant mind to one of his major loves, opera. Approaching = the subject as a lover of music without any formal musical training, he discerns fascinating patterns in = cultural movements in opera and reveals his personal tastes in this genre. Aurelia by Gerard de Nerval Translated from the French by Monique = DiDonna paperback $11.95 list Throughout Nerval's tempestuous life that ended with suicide by hanging, = this French Romantic poet=20 journeyed to distant parts of the globe in order to comprehend and = articulate the demons that assailed his innermost being. The culmination of Nerval's quest was Aurelia, a = masterful surrealistic prose dissection of mind and soul, completed only a year before his death in = 1855. The partly autobiographical work, with Nerval as both narrator and protagonist, is a mind rending = odyssey of cultural and spiritual exploration, shared by its tormented author and his spellbound readers. = Nerval's search for the ideal woman, his fountainhead of grace and salvation, is personified in the = distant Aurelia, based on his real-life obsession with the performer Jenny Colon. A Wanderer Plays on Muted Strings by Knut Hamsun, Translated from the = Norwegian by Oliver and Gunnvor Stallybrass paperback $10.95 list Related to and sometimes paired with Hamsun's Under the Autumn Star, = this beautifully lyric novel picks up with the same characters as the = other book, but is set in time six years later. The central character of the former fiction, Knut Pedersen (Hamsun's real name), is little = more than an observer in this work. His former friend Grindhusen has grown from stubborn independence to a = shifty and vacillating man; and his companion Lars Falkenberg has dwindled into a small land-holder = with a perpetually pregnant wife from whom is is deeply estranged. These two comedians play out a = tragi-comedy that is painful through the very irony and humaneness with which Hamsun paints his = figures. Antilyrik and Other Poems by Vitezslav Nezval. Translated from the Czech = by Jerome Rothenberg and Milos Sovak paperback $10.95 list Vitezslav Nezval (1900-1958) was an active participant in the European = avant-garde between the two world wars. In the 1920s, he was the = founding figure of "poetism," a movement of poets and artists centered = in Prague. Like other major innovators, he worked through a prolific = sweep of modes and genres: open and closed forms of verse, experimental = plays and novels, numerous translations of his modern counterparts and = predecessors, and forays as composer, painter, journalist, and social = commentator. In the foreground of avant-garde activity in Prague, Nezval = forged an alliance with Andre Breton and his Paris circle in the 1930s, = founding the first Surrealist group and magazine outside of France. = Antilyrik and Other Poems brings together, for the first time in = English, a sampling of some of Nezval's major poems from the 1920s and = 1930s, revealing the extraordinary depth and breadth of his poetic = project. Pedra Canga by Tereza Albues. Translated from the Portuguese by Clifford = E. Landers paperback $12.95 list Pedra Canga, a small and isolated community in the Brazilian Pantanal, = or wetlands, endures amid pverty, myth, and supersition. Dreaming and = suffering, the simple townspeople exist in the mystical reality of their private universe. With insight and humor the novel tells of the = ultimate vindication of these humble folk against a powerful and demonic family that has long oppressed them. = Filled with magical events, diabolic storms, and visions both frightening and angelical, this is a = wonderfully imaginative work, remind- ing one of the best of South American magic realism. Tereza Albues was born in a small village in Mato Grosso, Brazil. She = has lived in the United States for 16 years. Suicide Circus: Selected Poems by Alexei Kruchenykh. Translated from the = Russian by Jack Hirschmann, Alexander Kohav and Venyamin Tseytlin, with an Introduction by Jack = Hirshman, and a Preface and Notes by Guy Bennett paperback $12.95 = list With Velimir Khlebnikov and Vladimir Mayakovsky, Alexei Kruchenykh was = one of the central figures of Russian Futurism, and the leading practitioner of zaum poetry. Zaum, = meaning literally "beyond sense," was an attempt to undermine and/or ignore the conventional meaning of = words, "allowing their sound," as Marjorie Perloff has written, "to generate their own range of = signification, or, in its most extreme form, the invention of new words based purely on sound." In a series of = inventive works, among them Pomade,=20 Learn Art and Four Phonetic Novels, Kruchenykh sought to transform the = landscape of Russian modernist poetry. In the first substantive collection of Kruchenykh's = poetry in English, along with reproduc- tions of pages from the original texts, Hirschman, with the help of Guy = Bennett, has provided a important sourcebook for modern poetry. To order: send a check or money order to Douglas Messerli (c/0 Green = Integer, 6026 Wilshire Blvd., Los Angeles, CA 90036) Please remember to enclose the names of the titles you would like, your = name and address. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:56:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: Hannah's visions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Talking about "experimental" or "advanced" poetry, art, etc., one should > beware the irony of the situation, how these terms actually do not quite mean > what they say and often have acceptance of society integrated (pre-programed) > in them. ...especially considering the word "experimental." Isn't experiment the very foundation of science and technology development? (Hint: yes.) I'd hazard a guess and say science is fairly "mainstream." Every time I hear the word "experimental" in a literary context I see in my minds eye some poet at a lab table testing various literary tropes, with some solvents, chemicals, PCR reagents, mice in tiny little boxes. Patrick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:53:41 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Hannah's visions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/9/01 12:41:23 PM, MuratNN@AOL.COM writes: << Talking about "experimental" or "advanced" poetry, art, etc., one should beware the irony of the situation, how these terms actually do not quite mean what they say and often have acceptance of society integrated (pre-programed) in them. Murat Nemet-Nejat >> I throw this, from David Lehman, into the soup (sans prejudice): "The interval between rejection and acceptance has steadily grown shorter . . . . The consequence is that the avant-garde's incursions into the temple of art have become ritualized as the predictable gestures of postmodernism. . . . If we are all postmodernists, we are none of us avant-garde, for postmodernism is the institutionalization of the avant-garde." Best, Bill William James Austin.com Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:33:49 -0700 Reply-To: tbrady@msgidirect.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Re: anti-laureate nominations In-Reply-To: <002f01c104af$a40a2240$1f525e18@hawaii.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit By way of documentation for Susan's nomination, I suggest folks check out Linh Dinh's new Leroy chapbook, A Small Triumph Over Lassitude. Well worth the $2 bump in price for the acute poetic intelligence within, and the full-color Laylah Ali cover art. Taylor -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Susan Webster Schultz Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 10:35 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: anti-laureate nominations Good on you, Marcella. I nominate Linh Dinh, an "American" poet who lives in "Saigon." Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marcella Durand" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 3:46 AM Subject: anti-laureate nominations > Hey guys, > > The general gender and racial composition of the nominees for anti-poet > laureate so far are, unfortunately, shaking up to be approximately that of > the poet laureate list. I think we all need to be more reactionary on this > front and invert these numbers. Therefore, I nominate Bernadette Mayer, > Harryette Mullen and Cecilia Vicuna. > > Best, > Marcella ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:29:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Re: Hannah's visions [Watten: "AUTOBIOGRAPHY SIMPLEX"] Comments: To: Jeffrey Jullich In-Reply-To: <3B49D581.C716C4B6@columbia.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed You could say that Hannah's project is to explode the simplex form, and that the form of her self-presentation as autobiography was not only duplex but multiplex, fragmented. But then there's a recuperation of the "one true record of the self" which is the level of neurological tracking. I think we agree that it the pressure on anything like a "simplex autobiography" has a lot to do with the turn toward the automatism ("it's not me who wrote this; my voices/words/silent teachers did") of her recording "beyond intention." The distribution of intention, however, becomes intentional, particularly in its intention to avoid, precisely, the "simplex" form of autobiography. BW At 12:02 PM 7/9/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Barrett Watten wrote: > > >>It's not a simple either/or question, but not asking it, I think, gets a >lot simpler result in terms of reading or responding to Hannah's work and >self-presentation. >------------------------------------------------------------ > >Reminiscent perhaps, Camille/Barrett, of 'the distinction drawn by James Olney >between "autobiography simplex" and "autobiography duplex,"' cited by Robert >Gleckner (Johns Hopkins University Press, 1997, p. 16) . . . somewhat >ontological/metaphysical in its phrasing: > >'"One might say," he writes, "that autobiography is simple when . . . one can >detach the style from the substance and can handle and dissect it to see >what it >reveals about its maker." Rather than seeing that style "as turn[ing] back on >itself with self-criticism, there is the felt assumption . . . that this is >the way the thing is said, that there is no other way." . . . In contrast, the >act of duplex autobiography, "both as creation and as recreation >constitute[s] a >bringing to consciousness of the nature of one's own existence, >transforming the >mere face of existence into a realized quality and a possible meaning," a >"definition of the writer's self . . . in the present, at the time of >writing," >an awareness "of himself describing himself in the past" coupled with an >awareness "that this awareness is his present view on reality" (Olney, 44)." >[Olney, James, ~Metaphors of Self: The Meaning of Autobiography~ (Princeton >University Press, 1972)] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 07:17:27 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: karasick query In-Reply-To: <5.0.1.4.2.20010706141850.00ad0ea8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" does anyone know of any interviews, etc, "secondary materials" with/about etc Adeena Karasick? leads wd be much appreciated. thanks. md ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 07:26:08 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Hannah's visions In-Reply-To: <5.0.1.4.2.20010706141850.00ad0ea8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" barrett, was hannah "happier" when she was on medication or was the relief from symptoms a welcome one, other than the disappointment of not seeing words? if not, what would have been or was her motivation for taking meds? from your comments i gather that she went back and forth, on and off meds, or tried them and then decided permanently against? i know robt lowell used to go off lithium occasionally --not because doing so enhanced his writing but because he couldn't mix it w/ alcohol --and he wanted to be able to drink. a different situation, i realize. i think of hannah's writing as both insdier and outsider writing, ecriture brute and also v. literary. a great test case for all kinds of limits and categories. but a lot of "naive" writers or "ecrivains bruts" are v self-conscious of themselves as poets --like the girls i taught in south boston --tho this comes as a surprise and sometimes an affront to the MFA crowd. At 2:35 PM -0400 7/6/01, Barrett Watten wrote: >Hannah's visions, under the "I see words" rubric, were literally >hallucinations. She would see words and type what she saw. There was a >specific onset of this condition (when? how?), and I remember speaking with >her about how the words tended go away with medication. This may have been >an incentive not to medicate--so there was a tradeoff between the downside >of "symptoms" and feeling emotionally upbeat about getting a lot of writing >done--by hallucination. > >It seems that one could go one of two directions here. Acknowledge that the >words that came were "symptoms" of an underlying illness and then decide on >the relation of that condition to their literary value, or suspend that >decision--no matter what produced them, they were re-presented in literary >form and hence a part of "shaping" sensibility, possessing form and >intention. Certainly her work with "codes" in the 60s influenced her sense >of the value of these phenomena. > >It's not a simple either/or question, but not asking it, I think, gets a >lot simpler result in terms of reading or responding to Hannah's work and >self-presentation. Is she in a special "category of one" as a writer who >sees the words that she writes? Should a book about Hannah Weiner be >classified under "disability studies," "neurology," "psychology," in >addition to poetry? To what extent does the psychobiology of her writing >practice challenge the literariness of her work? > >When we think of the various automatisms that have been put forward as an >answer to reason in 20th-century poetry, do we have to qualify these >phenomena in terms of some kind of self-conscious method in order for them >to be "literary"? What is the status of Hannah's "literal" transcription of >automatism vs. what Breton wanted from it? Would Breton have approved of >Hannah's work? Is her work more akin to "art brut," an "outsider" art that >needs the recognition of a museum or collector (or archive!) to validate it? > >In beginning to think about these things, I'd suggest it's important that >there was a conflict in the nature of intentionality in Hannah's work, at >the very least--medicate and stop hallucinations, cease medication and >hallucinate. How to think about the nature of such a decision? > >BW ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 11:01:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik Robert Klein Engler Robert lives and writes in Chicago. He can be reached at alphaBpres@aol.com. His poems and stories have appeared in Borderlands, Hyphen, Christopher Street, The James White Review, American Letters and Commentary, Kansas Quarterly, and many other magazines and journals. He was the recipient of the Illinois Arts Council Literary Awards for his poem Flower Festival at Genzano, which appeared in Whetstone and Three Poems for Kabbalah, which appeared in Fish Stories, II. "What Is This Crap about Lamenting the Destruction of Tenochtitlan?" Baby's blood was used to wash the altar, and dried to scabs in the priest's hair. Human hearts flopped like rubber meat down the stone stairs, then they peeled off a man's skin, dressed in it, and danced. The tom-tom echoed his heartbeats. Flutes sounded the whistle of an arm bone. Every NO was muffled by obsidian. Rabbi Akiba, a man after my own heart, said that "suffering is precious." When the iron teeth of the Romans raked his flesh, he thought of meat hooks in the market ... this is what a man's body is. Barbed wire is not made from silk. There is only one God. The Aztecs are Nazis, too. Robert Klein Engler ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 13:05:55 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: housepress/derek beaulieu Subject: BODIES AND TEXTS: A SYMPOSIUM ON NORMALCY, DISABILITY, MORTALITY, AND POETRY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > YOU are invited to submit > a 250-WORD ABSTRACT of a paper > to be considered for presentation at: > BODIES AND TEXTS: > A SYMPOSIUM ON NORMALCY, DISABILITY, > MORTALITY, AND POETRY > > FRIDAY & SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 7 & 8, 2001 > UNIVERSITY OF CALGARY, CALGARY, ALBERTA > > KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: > FRANK DAVEY, UNIVERSITY OF WESTERN ONTARIO. > AUTHOR OF LIVING AND DYING (FORTHCOMING). > > MICHAEL DAVIDSON, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, SAN DIEGO. > AUTHOR OF HEARING THINGS: DEAFNESS, DISABILITIES AND THE PRODUCTION OF > NORMALCY (FORTHCOMING). > > "Bodies and Texts" will bring together scholars, poets, and community > activists to challenge--from a multi-disciplinary perspective--the social > construction of normalcy. The symposium will feature plenary lectures by > Professors Frank Davey and Michael Davidson, key figures in the field of > North American poetics whose research has recently focused on disability and > mortality. An evening poetry reading featuring Davey and Davidson, members > of the Kootenay School of Writing in Vancouver, and local writers affiliated > with dANDelion and fillingStation magazines, will bring conference > participants together in a more informal setting. Two academic panels will > feature graduate students from across the university presenting research > that intersects with these questions. Members of the disability rights > community will be invited to participate. > > PLEASE SEND: > Name, email address, phone number Abstract (250 words) Curriculum > vitae > > TO: > Susan Rudy, Professor of English, University of Calgary, > rudydors@ucalgary.ca > 2500 University Drive NW, Calgary, Alberta T2N 1N4 Tel: (403) 220-4677 > Fax: (403) 289-1123 > > DEADLINE: 30 JULY 2001 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 14:52:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jay Schwartz Subject: Oakland poetry & music event -- Gudath, Kaipa, Schwartz In-Reply-To: <200105022002.NAA12842@lanshark.lanminds.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Friday, July 13th: A night of experimental music, film and poetry Featuring: Poets Summi Kaipa & Lauren Gudath Filmmaker Kirthi Nath Musical group Oscopy, with Jay Schwartz, Vanessa Wang, and Colin Shipman A ruckus. Image, text, sound. At: 21 Grand, 21 Grand Avenue, Oakland California, 8:00 PM. 510-444-7263 www.21grand.com ================= > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 14:53:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: laurie macrae Subject: HANNAH'S HALLUCINATIONS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Barrett Watten has made a very important observation regarding Hannah Weiner and all those who experience similar phenomena and diagnosis. Unfortunately, not everyone who experiences this hallucinatory condition is a gifted poet or psychic or feels "emotionally upbeat" when they are so afflicted. The label "schizophrenia" is abused and misused and misunderstood and I'd rather not use it; but the condition of experiencing involuntary hallucinations, visions, auditory phenomena (voices), a condition which can be modified or sometimes illiminated by anti-psychotics drugs,is rightly or wrongly, generally described as schizophrenia. For those who experience it, it is a frequently terrifying experience, the fracturing of consciousness, which renders the subject unable to function on the most basic levels of self-care. The Szacz school thinks schizophrenia is the product of capitalism, and much as I would like to accept that explanation there is just too much evidence to refute it at every turn. Schizophrenic types have been identified in every culture and the symptoms have been categorized for centuries longer than capitalism. Joan of Arc? Approximately one percent of the population are people with schizophrenia - pretty high! And it is found at every level of society. There are definite hereditary indicators, leading most scientists to believe now that there may be a gene for schizophrenia. The trouble with the anti-psychiatry movement's "cure" is that it posits a utopian situation where there will exist a society able to recognize and support those in need, something that our society is totally unwilling to do. Families pay an enormous cost for this condition, being the only people usually who try to care for their wounded. Despite claims for new medications, nothing "cures" the condition, and many people remain untreatable by any of the new drugs. We "artists" are always looking for creative benefits to mental illness. This foolishness ignores the suffering of those who are effected. I did not know Hannah Weiner, but I bet there were friends and family who cared for her, and I bet her visions were not always benign. Laurie Macrae __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:56:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: info on CD Wright/Michael Burkard? In-Reply-To: <7b.172e05dd.2877bbf1@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, all. I'm writing the entries on CD Wright and Michael Burkard for Burt Kimmelman's companion guide, and I'm having problems finding scholarly writing on either of these two authors. I saw a review of one of Michael's books by Graham Foust in Lagniappe, but can't seem to find much else -- surely there's an article somewhere I'm missing? I've searched both online and through WorldCat for journal articles or book sections, and nothing's coming up. Backchannel would be great. Thanks very much, Arielle __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:02:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: Hannah's visions [Watten: "AUTOBIOGRAPHY SIMPLEX"] Comments: To: Barrett Watten MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barrett Watten wrote: >>It's not a simple either/or question, but not asking it, I think, gets a lot simpler result in terms of reading or responding to Hannah's work and self-presentation. ------------------------------------------------------------ Reminiscent perhaps, Camille/Barrett, of 'the distinction drawn by James Olney between "autobiography simplex" and "autobiography duplex,"' cited by Robert Gleckner (Johns Hopkins University Press, 1997, p. 16) . . . somewhat ontological/metaphysical in its phrasing: '"One might say," he writes, "that autobiography is simple when . . . one can detach the style from the substance and can handle and dissect it to see what it reveals about its maker." Rather than seeing that style "as turn[ing] back on itself with self-criticism, there is the felt assumption . . . that this is the way the thing is said, that there is no other way." . . . In contrast, the act of duplex autobiography, "both as creation and as recreation constitute[s] a bringing to consciousness of the nature of one's own existence, transforming the mere face of existence into a realized quality and a possible meaning," a "definition of the writer's self . . . in the present, at the time of writing," an awareness "of himself describing himself in the past" coupled with an awareness "that this awareness is his present view on reality" (Olney, 44)." [Olney, James, ~Metaphors of Self: The Meaning of Autobiography~ (Princeton University Press, 1972)] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:55:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jj20@COLUMBIA.EDU Subject: Re: (YUM!) Susan Wheeler / Claudia Rankine Reading In-Reply-To: <3B45C859.B81294F5@columbia.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Quoting Susan Wheeler : > They wrote "light snacks with wine and soda." ? -------------------------------------------------- Oh, perfect! I hate HEAVY SNACKS at poetry readings. Summer is the time for lite poetry reading snacks. ("Light snacks" probably means crudite's, that's my guess: leafy celery stalks, artichoke hearts, heart of palm {variations on neo-classical "That is Cabistan's heart in a dish!" motif [vid. Cantos]}, winking Neapolitan olives, perhaps rosey prosciutto . . .) I hope they have ginger ale or Sprite, Susan. Mormon tea-totallers hate poetry readings where only either alcohol or caffeine (wine or Coke) is provided, intemperate ideologies. Tell Claudia I may be bringing my own cornucopia Snack Basket (like Carol Channing, who carried her own greens and sliced raw vegetables into Sardi's, Four Seasons, . . .). If I'm overpowered by stone-cold sober "munchies" and am compelled to sneak a bite of Finnish rye crisp I might bring along, I'll try not to make crunching noises while Claudia is reading some truly serious and humorless passage, I promise. (. . . a garnish, a Hershey's Chocolate Kiss-shaped dollop of chlorophyl-plentiful wasabe mustard, one sushus [singular for "sushi"], . . .) -------------------------------------------------------- > > At 10:16 AM 07/06/2001 -0400, you wrote: > >Susan Wheeler wrote: > > > >> For those of you in New York City, Claudia Rankine and I > will be reading > >> Thursday, July 12 at 7 pm at the Center for Book Arts, 28 > West 27th Street > >> on the 3rd floor, between 6th Avenue and Broadway. Number > there is > >> 212-481-0295. Snacks after. > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- > > > >What kind of snacks? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:31:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: neuro daemon Comments: To: lcabri@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm not sure I've heard anyone else put it quite so well. The poet as the ventriloquist puppet with a logos daemon, yes. Lester, a ventriloquist puppet who has recently surfaced and will be making a public performance in Brooklyn Tuesday evening, thanks you too (http://proximate.org/CloseQuarterly/lester.htm). Thanks, Patrick http://proximate.org/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Louis Cabri" To: Sent: Sunday, 08 July, 2001 5:18 AM Subject: Re: neuro daemon > Hannah Weiner may have "seen" words, but how does reason do it? If it > is "logos," a kind of speaking (ie not a kind of seeing), as it was for > Socrates, then it too can operate like a daemon (aie, lots of proof of > that!). Socrates "tuned in" to the daemon's voice and ventriloquized - for > which/whom he would rather sacrifice his life (and did, of course), than > have the state censor him from ever speaking its "truth" again in public. > > louis cabri > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 19:34:41 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeff Derksen Subject: Re: karasick query In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" maria, there is an interview between karasick and warren tallman in tallman's _in the midst_ (from talonbooks) plus, if I remember correctly, some work on karasick as well. Also check out back issues of the journal _tessera_. best jeff >does anyone know of any interviews, etc, "secondary materials" with/about >etc Adeena Karasick? leads wd be much appreciated. thanks. md Jeff Derksen Lorenz Mandl Gasse 33/2 A-1160 Vienna Austria p/f 43.1.49.28.160 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 10:48:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cadaly Subject: short course being offered at UCLA Extension Comments: To: wryting MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT My short course in short poetry is actually being offered again! (I thought it wasn't due to small enrollment), and starts tomorrow night (July 10, running through August 14) in 2226 Campbell Hall, UCLA, at 7 p.m. It is half prosody half workshop, will be about Southeastern Asian forms, but will especially focus on sound, speech, syllabics, and "writtenness" (last years' course had an identical description and was about form and content). The course is on http://www.uclaextension.org, but it is not the easiest thing to find. Enrollment is still open. It is NOT online, you have to be in Southern California. If you took it last summer: I have a completely different syllabus, if you need to submit it for work reimbursement. Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:22:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: hannah weiner i never knew hannah weiner..but i was told this story...a few weeks after her death... by a friend of hers...a close relative (straight brother??) came to settle the estate...the family had not been too happy with her choice of careers...he took all her stuff (i presume books, papers, objects)..and tossed 'em all into a dumpster...the real lives of the poets...Drn... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 15:21:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: snacks at readings In-Reply-To: <994625750.3b48c8d6bbb1f@cubmail.cc.columbia.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > > They wrote "light snacks with wine and soda." ? > -------------------------------------------------- > > Oh, perfect! I hate HEAVY SNACKS at poetry readings. Summer is the Hey! Cheese and red wine, it doesn't get heavier than that, and that, my friend, is the snack combo poetry readings call out for! I mean, if the heads of the town are up in the aether, what better to bring them back than some cut-above-rotgut and a slab of cheddar or a gooey squiggle of brie? Such, anyway, was our practice at Poetry City, which I see has turned into "Fiction City." Oh, we offered baby carrots, but only because Gary Sullivan wouldn't show unless we had them. Remember, until you get about forty dollars' worth of cheese, it's not a poetry reading -- it's a poetry recital. Jordan Davis ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:54:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Broder, Michael" Subject: Ear Inn Readings--July 2001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The Ear Inn Readings Saturdays at 3:00 326 Spring Street, west of Greenwich New York City FREE July 14 Aaron Balkan, Greg Pardlo, Noel Sikorski July 21 Angelo Verga, Jen Knox July 28 Merrill Balck, Sally-Ann Hard, Greg McDonald, Samina Shahidi The Ear Inn Readings Michael Broder, Director Patrick Donnelly, Lisa Freedman, Kathleen E. Krause, Jason Schneiderman, Co-Directors Martha Rhodes, Executive Director The Ear Inn is one block north of Canal Street, a couple blocks west of Hudson. The closest trains are the 1-9 to Canal Street @ Varick, the A to Canal Street @ Sixth Ave, or the C-E to Spring Street@ Sixth Ave. For additional information, contact Michael Broder at (212) 246-5074. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 19:20:12 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Randolph Healy Subject: New from Wild Honey Press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New from Wild Honey Press. Apologies for cross posting. ************************************************ Plunge by Harriet Zinnes, 24 pages, 14x21 cm, inkjet printed on cream paper, with 250 gsm white Stratacolour card cover. The colour illustration on the cover is from the painting Unexpected Visitor by Alice Zinnes. ISBN 1 903090 29 6, USD 5, STG 3.50 Poet and critic, Harriet Zinnes lives in New York is the author of seven collections of poetry. Visit http://www.wildhoneypress.com/books/plunge for a picture of the cover and a sample poem. It's lucid, graceful work, full of formal interest. I've found that if you can break the hypnotic spell cast by these poems, one can learn all sorts of high-tech things. ************************************************ red noise of bones a 42 minute CD of Trevor Joyce reading his own work. Having been through it from stem to stern six times normalising volumes and so on, I found myself then listening to it for pleasure. Wonderful stuff. ISBN 1 903090 30 X. USD 15, STG 10. Visit http://www.wildhoneypress.com/books/rednoise for a sample. Book and cd available from me at 16a Ballyman Road, Bray, Co. Wicklow, Ireland (I take mastercard or visa) or from Peter Riley. ************************************************************** Finally, for the brokenwalleted, (no irony here as I sit in my Oxfam tee-shirt) two freebies: Ten poems read by Miles Champion, read with a clarity and speed that is almost too thrilling. Text is provided for those who don't have 1 GHz ears. Many of the poems read can be found in Three Bell Zero, Miles Champion, Roof Books, New York, ISBN 0 937804 82 7, USD 10.95 (Highly recommended). This reading, specially recorded for Wild Honey, is one of the highlights of my summer. A tour de force. Second freebie: A Defense of Poetry read by Gabe Gudding, a spendthrift spirited whale of an anti-praise poem. All the above can be got to from the main page: http://www.wildhoneypress.com and click on the link to "new". Best wishes Randolph Healy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:07:26 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Exhausted Angel Comments: To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics , Britpo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Philpott has just added material from the never-to-have-appeared, wonderful in its should-have-happened- actuality, already legendary ANGEL EXHAUST 18, to his website: www.greatworks.org.uk Best David Bircumshaw ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:35:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: brom In-Reply-To: <393E409D.830139D5@concentric.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Had lunch with David bromige and wide cecilia and my daughter Thea and Mike Matthews, our co-author today, and though Dave is a little slow, especially in walking (a lot of that due to hius terrible feet), he seemed to keep up ,mentally. -- George Bowering Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:54:16 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Hannah's visions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Murat. I also was thinking of responding to the "approval" ...the term is problematic. To ask for approval assumes a kind of hierarchical situation in art and literature where Barrett Watten and Breton and so on are "names"....but to be fair to Watten I left it as "approval" may have been meant as "interested in" but you make some good points here. I dont see that contradiction...and maybe by the way B Watten was aware of his terminology and so on. But I think its important. The WAY we say things has vast significance. Take Dr Wayne Dyer who points out how enculturation subtly sends out negative messages in his great book "Your Erroneous Zones". In Ch 1 ("Taking Charge of Oneself") he points out a "..brief list of utterances that you have used over and over. Examine the message they send: "You hurt my feelings", "You make me feel bad"..... He says: "...each saying [like the word "approve"] has a built in message that you are not responsible for how you feel. Now rewrite that list so it is accurate. so it reflects the fact that you are in charge of the how you feel and that your feelings come from the thoughts you have about anything: ""I hurt my feelings because of the things I told myself about your reaction to me," ; "I made myself feel bad." [etal] Then he writes: "Perhaps you think that the items [inthe first list] are just figures of speech...{BUT] if this is your rationale, ask yourself why the staements in list 2 didnt evolve into cliches. The answer lies in our culture which [discourages the kind of thinking that leads to self-approval and self-motivation etc ] And in Chapter Three he points out the way in which advertising across the medias and various "sayings" we are brought up with, or popular songs, books of various kinds, push us away from self-approval and "brainwashes" or very subtly or by power of repetition enculturates and can even disempower us.(And ultimately certain people of a certain social clas altho he doesnt go into that). This is no "plot" but Watten himself is (albeit unonsciously or Freudian slippingly) using one of those "cliches" the "A" word...of course someone might counter: but who was Breton? But Breton certainly set himself up as a big shot in the surrealist movement and probably its part of how things are, but its interesting how very few writers or artists belong to a club of one: of course they cant. There is and will continue to be this struggle with and within the language (as seen in a way in and through Weiner's work itself) and Watten's questions "sound" a little schoolmasterly and even intrusive. One feels like saying: "Who the hell's Watten?" and of course "Who the hell's Taylor (me))?" But the questions were still interesting and its good that B W has entered into a discussion of Hannah Weiner...its good to hear any discussion going on. I took another "angle" in my reply so to speak. I have noticed that people who get a "name" (maybe its impossible not to avoid this) frequently adopt a kind of superior stance: not always a bad thing. Complex issues....but to get back to Hannah Weiner I would like to read about her (I suppose I must have a look at the EPC list if there's something on there...bound to be). Murat - have a look (if you havent) at my response to Watten....this is the positive side: it got me looking up her work. The approval thing the heirarchical things are problematic...they exist in all human organisations everywhere...my friend Jim the Ant however feels that the world is slowly getting better. I hope he's right. Despite Bush and the horrible pervading "Bushism" .....who looks to me from photographs etc to be to quote a guy on the ICC (Internet Chess Club) "the biggest wanker that God ever shovelled guts into" ! But maybe he's a great guy. Wonder what he would have thought of Hannah Wiener's writings?!! Regards, Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 2:19 AM Subject: Re: Hannah's visions > In a message dated 7/7/01 6:17:31 AM, b.watten@WAYNE.EDU writes: > > >When we think of the various automatisms that have been put forward as > >an > >answer to reason in 20th-century poetry, do we have to qualify these > >phenomena in terms of some kind of self-conscious method in order for them > >to be "literary"? What is the status of Hannah's "literal" transcription > >of > >automatism vs. what Breton wanted from it? Would Breton have approved of > >Hannah's work? Is her work more akin to "art brut," an "outsider" art that > >needs the recognition of a museum or collector (or archive!) to validate > >it? > > > > Under Barrett's question lies the contradiction between "experimental" art > and "authority, hierarchy." As phenomenon, there is very little difference > between Hannah's "literal transcriptions of automatism" and Breton's > surrealist. But still Barrett brings the question of Breton's "approval" or a > museum's or archive's "validation" of Hannah's work. In other words, the > difference between the two (Hannah's and Breton's methods) is the degree of > their social acceptance, which side of the railroad track they come, so to > speak. Surrealism today is more or less mainstream art whereas Hannah's is > trying to find a place (isn't brut art a euphemism for asylum art work as a > step towards social acceptance?). One can slum into insanity (surrealism), > but one can't live there (then, at best, one is brut, like "brute," in > savage.). The distinction has class, hierarchy written all over it. > > Talking about "experimental" or "advanced" poetry, art, etc., one should > beware the irony of the situation, how these terms actually do not quite mean > what they say and often have acceptance of society integrated (pre-programed) > in them. > > Murat Nemet-Nejat ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:01:23 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: CLOSING OF ANTI-LAUREATE POLLS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Of coourse of course he did he did he did he he who who who who who who wasawaswaswas was he was he was he wase wase was was wz e waswas he was and who was he was of course he did he did he did the malboro marlboro marlboro marlboro man he did he did. Seriously: "I presume he figures in cigarette adverts? In which case he was very very bad." Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard.tylr" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 12:49 PM Subject: Re: CLOSING OF ANTI-LAUREATE POLLS > Of course he did who is or was he of course he did. Richard. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sheila Massoni" > To: > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 1:44 PM > Subject: Re: CLOSING OF ANTI-LAUREATE POLLS > > > > Did the Marlboro man write? > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 18:13:12 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: request for questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm working on an essay/talk about editing Tinfish (a journal of = experimental poetry from the Pacific). I'm finding it a difficult = topic, as it's so close to home, and would like to ask for indirect = advice, in the form of questions. If you were going to a talk about = such a journal, what questions would you want answered? =20 Thanks in advance. aloha, Susan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 01:14:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: memorial MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII memorial everyone on planet earth lie die and obey the western millennium alan sondhei lie down and obey the western millennium all animals protozoa and slamanders and mamals lie down and obey all planets stars lie down and obey the western millennium all stringed matter and virtual matter and black holes lie down and obey the western millennium all people listen to me on this gerat erth of hours! do lie down and obey the western millennium! it's sad that the adolescent fish died tonight the orange one caught in the filter the other two adolescent females are oky and the two smaller generations of babies that have been living in the remnants of the hatchery you seem okay the larger alpha male and the larger two females seem okay the other beta male is lonely but would die and is doing okay alone you two beta males wach each other the other female died so long ago she can hardly be remembered this is an ode to her she died soon after the tank was started we don't know what happened she was found dead on the bottom without injury and without any noticable signs but just there some of the babies have been eaten but there haven't been any other greater deaths until tonight when one of the adolesent females died trapped in the filter pipe she has gone tojoin her elder who has died in the tank they have great spirits and we pray they wil do well in the larger waters of al our births and deths _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:32:36 -0500 Reply-To: archambeau@hermes.lfc.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Archambeau Organization: Lake Forest College Subject: Re: anti-anti-laureate MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > << The whole anti-laureate thread makes me nostalgic for the great stamp act > controversy. Why do so many Americans yearn for monarchical trappings? > Oh, to be back in Canada. Where the yearning for monarchial trappings is readly satisfied by the head of the Queen on the change in your pocket. > And I > question such whimsically "anarchic" gestures from people who have such a > clear sense of "envy" in the "rank and file. >> "I" "question" the "scare quotes" around the word "envy." The question is: isn't the envy real enough to escape quotes? Literary envy in the States seems real enough to me: it may even be more of a force than the literary envy I remember in Manitoba, where teeth were constantly gritted when Toronto and Vancouver were mentioned... Anyway -- what's your question? "Does the envy of some make us unworthy of whinsy?" The answer to that one, I think, is "no." Robert Archambeau wringing out the wet towel ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:05:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Camille Martin Subject: Hannah's visions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm grateful to all who commented, both backchannel and on the list, regarding my questions about Hannah Weiner's visions. Ignoring the pathology of her condition would be to deny its downside and also to minimize the uniqueness of her unusual ability. And it is evident from friends' accounts that she did suffer, especially toward the end of her life, and that her hallucination of words does constitute an unusual manifestation of schizophrenia. But I'm wondering whether her own condition might also lie along a continuum of phenomena of various kinds that we all experience to varying degrees? From this perspective, hearing voices and seeing words isn't so foreign to many. One poet wrote me that he also sees words, and that this may not be such an unusual ability, especially among poets and artists. I wonder if there's anyone who hasn't occasionally experienced, involuntarily, voices that seem to come from outside oneself, an otherness within us giving instructions, chiding, etc. ? And poets sometimes claim to receive words and arrangements of words as if in a trance, a la Spicer's Martians & ghosts, or as in automatic writing. I have sometimes attempted to write on an "empty" conscious mind, trying to clear thoughts and allow the words to come as if from outside me ? it's as if the words were rising to the surface from a place over which I have little conscious or intentional control. More commonly, I have the feeling of "losing myself" while wr iting, in which I seem to be allowing inner voices, mental movements and desires (and the voices & feelings that I have absorbed from others) to shape the work. Sometimes, in a hypnogogic state, I seem to be dipping into an ongoing chatter within my subconscious mind, as if this chatter might be happening almost all the time, but I'm only allowed access to it during certain twilight states. When I close my eyes at night, I often see a parade of images of faces that seem so particular as to be real individuals, but they are people I don't recognize. Where do they come from? A friend points out that it's possible to think of decision or intention as an illusion in which one imagines a single or unitary self, or autonomous ego (the notorious homunculus) to be willing an event (such as a poem), whereas the brain is capable of producing many kinds of illusions of such control and rationalization, such as in the interpretation of phenomena that don't make sense, weaving them into a more comprehensible or comfor ting narrative. There's a theory that there's actually a part of our brains that's largely responsible for weaving contradictory or confusing perceptions into a compelling sense, even a sense that bears no relation to reality -- Gazzaniga calls it "the interpreter." In addition to the "dictation" mentioned, there's the more quotidian inner stream, the seemingly incessant chatter or parade of images and symbols that we all experience, a kind of roiling conversation among memories, perceptions, and other mental / bodily events. The "conversational" feel, or the feeling of "otherness" of such voices might be due to the fact that the brain is interconnected in such complex ways that ongoing neural events of different types may appear like different voices to us -- perceiving, explicating, commanding, commenting, evaluating, emoting, symbolizing, visualizing ? not to mention the voices contending with each other to place different values on things perceived and tugging at you to behave in different ways, the proverbial angel and devil on your shoulders. So Hannah, although she certainly had an unusual manifestation of "dictation," visual rather than aural (at first), which is also to say an unusual manifestation of schizophrenia, may not be so alone (or so very unusual) if we think of a neurological continuum among us all of such inner aural and visual events. But from another perspective, she was also quite unique. And, as Barrett suggests, maybe both perspectives can exist at once and give us a more complex reading of her work. I'd like to pose the question of considering the neural genesis of culture, at least in part (not to be completely biologically reductive). To consider poetry, to offer only one example, as an expression of how one conceives of the self, which conception is a neurological phenomenon. Interesting, Maria, Hannah's claim that LSD facilitated her hallucinations. I remember reading in Cytowic's _The Man Who Tasted Shapes_ that amyl nitrate made the sensations of the eponymous synesthete more intense, as did alcohol. Caffeine diminished his experience. Camille Camille Martin Lit City 7725 Cohn St. New Orleans, LA 70118 (504) 861-8832 http://www.litcity.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:56:35 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Randolph Healy Subject: Wild Honey Press Url errors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apologies for cross posting My enthusiastic grammar checker mangled the two urls I sent last night: Harriet Zinnes new book Plunge can be glimpsed at: http://www.wildhoneypress.com/BOOKS/Plunge.html and Trevor Joyce's CD is at http://www.wildhoneypress.com/BOOKS/red_noise.html sorry about that, Randolph ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 02:16:54 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anselm Hollo Subject: from the desk of the anti-laureate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "With all the ironies and contradictions appertaining thereunto" (High Commissioner Robert Archambeau of the United States Anti-Laureate Commission), I am delighted to accept my appointment as US Anti-Laureate for the year 2001. While I agree with several of Barrett Watten's points regarding the "Iowa exclusion" and the "system of representation on which the [US] Poet Laureate[ship] is based," I prefer to read the title as simply representing a "Big No" (as in George Grosz's remarkable autobiography, "Ein kleines Ja und ein grosses Nein" -- "A Small Yes and a Big No") to the "laurels" bestowed by some librarian and his cronies in the (increasingly) provincial capital of the world.. A "No," as well, to the tiresome hype (put out by publishers, arrangers of literary events, etc.) of all the "award-winning" So-and-sos -- a hype to which perhaps only "arts administration" bureaucrats still pay any attention. As for the Iowa Exclusion, and the Exclusion of the Great Dead, I may, upon further Pataphysical Reflection and Discussion with The High Commissioner and other interested parties, decide to suggest waiving these in years to come. The Anti- and Alternative Laureates are legion, and include many more than those nominated this time around. I agree with Watten that Robert Grenier's indomitable US American lyricism deserves recognition, as does the dynamic, visionary, linguistically and philosophically innovative work of Alice Notley (my nominee). Since the Anti-Laureateship is not funded by taxpayers, I cannot invite Notley, or Grenier, or Watten, or any of you, to come and read at the Library of Congress. I have, however, acted as an advisor to the illustrious Left Hand Reading Series in Boulder, Colorado, for the past couple of years, and intend to continue to do so. The organizers of the series, poets Laura E. Wright and Mark DuCharme, pass a Venerable Hat for Honorarium, which thus varies according to the number of solvent persons in the audience. In its modest way, this series has been, is, and will be working toward "undoing the system of representation on which the [US] Poet Laureate[ship] is based" (Watten). For my personal record of efforts in that direction, see my book "Caws and Causeries: Around Poetry and Poets" (La Alameda/University of New Mexico Press, ISBN 1-888809-15-9). And in case Bob Grumman, and anyone else, truly wants to refresh his or her memory of any of my work, s/he now has an opportunity to do so by asking the local public librarian to obtain a copy of "Notes on the Possibilities and Attractions of Existence: Selected Poems 1965-2000 by Anselm Hollo," just out from Coffee House Press (ISBN 1-56689-115-9). Allow me to end this message with the poem "Piano Solo" by Chile's Anti-Poet Nicanor Parra: Since Man's life is nothing but an action at a distance, A bit of foam shining in a glass; Since trees are nothing but agitated furniture, Mere chairs and tables in perpetual motion; Since we ourselves are merely beings (Just as god himself is no more than god); Since we don't talk to be listened to But merely to get others to talk, And since an echo precedes the voices that produce it; And since we haven't even the consolation of chaos In a garden that yawns and fills with air, A puzzle we have to solve before dying So that we can be tranquilly resuscitated After we've over-indulged in women; And since there's also a heaven in hell, Allow me to do a thing or two: I want to make a shuffling noise with my feet, I want my soul to find its body. (Translated by Jorge Elliott) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:00:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Petition for the Impeachment of Chief Justice Rehnquist and Associate Justices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm not a fan of Internet petitions. Still, I agree with former LA prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi, that the actions of the US Supreme Court in Bush vs Gore last fall constituted a clear case of treason. The Democrats in Oregon appear ready to act on this, and it won't hurt to give this whatever help you can. http://www.petitiononline.com/impeach/petition.html Ron Silliman ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:45:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: A Ravaged Musical Prodigy at a Crossroads With Drugs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As painful a tale of Gil Scott-Heron & crack cocaine as you will find. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/10/nyregion/10GIL.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:39:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Re: Hannah's Visions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I completely agree with Laurie Macrae's response. Part of what motivated my comment--and disinclination to think of Hannah's visual/auditory phenomena as let's say adequately accounted for by literary interest in her work, which is great--is to refuse the antipsychiatry movement's insensitivity to the real nature of illness. I see this particularly in Deleuze/Guattari's valorization of the "schizo," which has to remain a permanent defect in their "system," no matter its current rhizomic reinforcements. As a romantic gesture, the concept of the "schizo" denies the lived experience of the person suffering with (a wide range of often horrifying) symptoms. When I have encountered that concept in the teaching situation--in Anti-Oedipus, do they really mean persons with real mental illness or what?--it's with the same embarrassment that I have when I deal with, say, Faulkner's racist language or Pound's various manias. Which is surprising, as the "schizo" is supposed to be a liberatory concept. And if there is reason to doubt that basis, some of the other concepts in D&G start to come undone. The "body without organs" as the disembodied state experienced by some "schizophrenics," for instance, where one cannot discern the borders of one's physical being. "Desiring machines" not for disco or techno but for a libido that becomes pure repetition, like the involuntary body movements you see in some people who have been medicated for too many years. "Order words" like paranoid commands coming from nowhere--much like Hannah's phenomena, actually. In what ways are these dubious metapsychological concepts an adequate basis for a theory of our collective postmodernity? Returning to Hannah--in my own experience of her, I was at once a friend, an editor, and a kind of distanced (or distributed) caretaker. The last strategy is interesting, as a creative approach to the reality of her illness. She distributed her caretaking, by distance media, among many friends and "voices." Hannah would call when she got a "message" that I had something to say to her. This could be at odd hours, but generally was in pretty established time frames. Like, say, Saturday morning at 11 AM. She would play with the degree of control she would exercise over when to call one of her interlocutors, "voices," "silent teachers." The conversations were often delightful and amusing. At times they were, as Laurie suggests, not benign but driven. Angry demands: "talk to me now." "Get somebody to do something for me." "Why have you grown silent (as a voice in her head)." Medication I am sure influenced the quality of these interactions, but beyond that I don't know anything specific about what medications she took, or how she responded to them. I think a sensitive biographical account of this would be very welcome and might be undertaken by various of Hannah's friends. I'd certainly be interested in contributing to it. But I would not want such an account to be purely literary. The human truths here, confirming and disturbing, are too important for that. Hannah's work demands--and was always a demand--that we deal with her medical condition as much as her literary contribution. Here, the nature of the "literary" as that which confirms or allows our interest in what otherwise would be intractable seems important. As with surrealism or art brut, there is a kind of mediation that is necessary in order to experience that which is irremediable. It's not just that the in fact rationalist framework of surrealism is a cooptation, let's say, of the actual risk of madness. Or that recognition in the form of archives, museums, collectors functions in a similar, sanitizing way. There has to be a motivated relation between what kind of mediating frame allows an approach to the irremediable. Henry Darger's work for instance is, in fact, "beautiful" and thus can be taken up by the gallery/museum world. Here, it's Hannah's relation to a community of writers, from the 1960s on, investigating the limits of signification that was constitutive, in fact, of the phenomenon of her work from the 70s on. How, exactly, is a question for "research." My first contact with Hannah came in the mid 1970s, when I published work of hers in This 7. And I worked on the production of Clairvoyant Journals, typesetting it on what was then very primitive equipment. Some of that work appears in the Hoover anthology. It was a real challenge to render that work in type without being able to see the page itself--I had to keep all the codes in my head. So I was intrigued by Hannah, obviously. I remember getting ready to send off some proofs to her, about 1978, writing her name on the envelope, when the phone rings and it was her. First time I had talked to her, I believe. Now you could say the timing was evident--the proofs were supposed to be sent out roughly in a certain time frame--but it was pretty confirming as clairvoyance, as well. Which I said to Hannah. She was very proud of herself when things like this happened. BW ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:50:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sylvester pollet Subject: Inquiry: Ecological poetry? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Certainly Antler, & Gary Lawless. Ginsberg as obvious as Snyder. Nanao Sakaki, quintessential, though I'm not sure how he'd fly in Korea. If you contact Gary Lawless at Gulf of Maine Books in Brunswick Maine, he could ship you the whole store. best, Sylvester >Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:23:16 -0700 >From: "Walter K. Lew" >Subject: Inquiry: Ecological poetry? > >I have been asked to participate in a poetry seminar in S. Korea at >the end of July and need some help from yr expertise. I was >originally only supposed to give a reading and a lecture on Yi Sang >(for YS, cf. Poems for the Milliennium, vol. 1, or Muae 1 [1995]), >but now I have also been asked to address the theme of the >environment/ecology in American poetry. I am glad to do so, but wd >appreciate more leads as to which poets/critics to read in this >regard, aside from an obvious one like Gary Snyder (a personal >favorite is actually Jim Morrison on when the music's over). The >pastoral dimension of U.S. poetry is somewhat related to this, of c, >but often as an attempt at a transcendence of history, whereas >"ecological poetry" wd seem to refer to a politically direct >engagement/confrontation w civilizing, industrial, or Kapital-driven >damage to ecosystems (tho' Marx was no defender of pristine Nature, >and pastoral poetry, whether Chinese or British, obviously required >that the wilderness be tamed.) I think there wd have been a lot of >Sixties writing on this topic, e.g. Bly, in combination w protest >against the Vietnam War, but I mainly read a different type of 60s >poetry. Or has a favorite poet of the so-called "tree huggers" >emerged? Any help will be appreciated and, if you prefer, please >back-channel. I am open to suggestions for both poetry and incisive >scholarship, anywhere in the range between dithyrambs in defense of >Gaia to suburban serenading of a front lawn. Thanks, Walter P.S. If >anyone on the Poetics list is in Korea, drop me a line--Let's meet! > >-- >Walter K. Lew >11811 Venice Blvd. #138 >Los Angeles, CA 90066 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:00:14 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: info on CD Wright/Michael Burkard? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit arielle I took a class with MB at FAWC am a scholar of sorts smassoni@aol.com i'd state MB would be susan grahams alter ego for sure! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:01:10 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: (YUM!) Susan Wheeler / Claudia Rankine Reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "ice is nice" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:06:19 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: neuro daemon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hannah reminds me of my late Mom who was busy noting aural items she heard during her pre-sleep stage in her diary my bedroom was under hers I was playing my new FM and puffing the night away (but not inhaling) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:47:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: joy katz Subject: New York poets read in Seattle 7/12 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NY Poets Read in Seattle Joanna Fuhrman and Adeena Karasick are reading at Open Books, 7:30, thursday, July 12th. 2414 N 45th Street. Joanna Fuhrman's first book, Freud in Brooklyn, was published by Hanging Loose Press. Adeena Karasick is the author of four books of poetry and poetic theory: Dyssemia Sleaze, Genrecide, Memewars and The Empress Has No Closure, all from the Canadian press Talonbooks. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:16:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joshua Mckinney Subject: Sotere Toreggian? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If you know the work (and any bio info) of the poet Sotere Toreggian, and if you would like to be interviewed for a Capital Publica Radio piece (Scaramento) on him, contact Elaine Hess at evoice@att.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:35:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Best American Erotica Reading in SF Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Best American Erotica 2001 Reading Good Vibrations Valencia, off of 23rd St. San Francisco Tuesday, July 24, 8-10 pm, free The fabulous Susie Bright is at it again! She's put together the latest volume in the best selling Best American Erotica series and the stories are hot, hot, hot. Join Susie and contributors Dodie Bellamy, Cara Bruce, Ginu Kamani, Jerry Stahl, Dan Taulapapa, Claire Tristram and James Williams as they read from their stories. Come on in and get your summer started with a sizzle. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:39:26 -0700 Reply-To: yan@pobox.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: matvei yankelevich Subject: poets, russian-american, plus... Comments: To: ugly.duckling@pobox.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello poets and poetry-hosts, just a friendly invitation to an unusual poetry reading. and a little more. -Matvei (6x6, UDP) %%%%%%%%%% *********** ####### RUSSIAN-AMERICAN WRITERS july 18 and Contemporary Russian Poetry in TRANSLATION @CORNELIA STREET CAFE Wednesday, July 18, 6pm, THAT'S SIX O'CLOCK in the EVENING in the west village, 29 Cornelia Street, b'ween Bleeker & West 4th (as usual, 6$ cover, includes free drink) WITH: -- ANDREI GRITSMAN -- JOHN HIGH -- ALEX CIGALE -- VITALY CHERNETSKY -- CAROL UELAND -- ALEXANDER STESSIN -- & MATVEI YANKELEVICH <----(me) (reading will be held primarily in the vernacular of New York; Russian & English speakers equally welcome and will enjoy) ... also, since you are good people, I wanted to share the info with you, a play I think is amazing you should see before it closes... SCHOOL FOR SALOMES is in its FINAL WEEK at the beautiful chashama theater. It may well be back in the Fringe Festival in the fall, but that will be a different show altogether. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND that you see it without further delay, as it is is theater for people who have grown tired of theater, it is theater for people who hate all that theater crap; it is funny, crazy, the actors are truly there because it's raw and loose and gritty and free. And because it is new, yes, new. See it and you will see what I mean when we meet and talk about it over raw eggs and coffee. no bull, Matvei ps - It'll be packed, get there early, wed through sat, starts at 8. details below %%%%%%%%%% *********** ####### a Science Project: SCHOOL FOR SALOMES runs all over the beautiful 42nd St. stage of chashama -- 135 W 42nd, between 6th and 7th, a truly amazing space, right off of Times Square Wednesdays thru Sundays, at 8pm now until Bastille Day, July 14th. 12 SHOWS ONLY! This is a work-in-progress and therefore short (currently about an hour) and always changing. Seating is limited, so reserve tickets by calling: 212-853-9623. For more about the show, see www.chashama.org. The cast includes: The King of Love________Terry Gibson* The Boys________________Krassin Iordanov (alternate), Derek Brown (alternate), Valerio Lucanini The Salomes_____________James Hay*, Aimee Phelan, Alice Pan, Zuzanna Szadkowski The Foreigner___________Ambarish Manepalli The Dubsons_____________Oleg Dubson, Dima Dubson Stanley the dog_________as himself The Historian___________Judy Rhodes* John the Baptist________Gregory Luis de Molina Ford The Teacher_____________Lise Bruneau* Steely Cherub___________Julie Atlas Muz Andy Warhol_____________Vajra K. Spook *AEA Directed by Yelena Gluzman Designed by Dana Edell, Polina Gluzman, J-Sun Burns, and Todd Polenberg (Yelena Gluzman is the Paperless Books Editor at Ugly Duckling Presse.) %%%%%%%%%% *********** ####### PLUS: SECRET THEATER IN A STOREFRONT WINDOW ON 42nd STREET??!!! Come to CHASHAMA a little early and you may catch Matvei Yankelevich searching for SECRET THEATER in the storefront WINDOW PIECE. He faces off with 42nd Street with the possibility of a secret life, armed with a Remington Rand typewriter (for a close shave), his Latin Book, many many index cards, and a plastic Holga -- a picture-taking-device. Matvei will be doing his window piece without acting or pretending during most of the SALOME run. Most evenings between 6:30 and 8 for the next two weeks. Email yan@pobox.com if you want to confirm a time to see him, or even participate as an instantaneous secret theater practitioner simply by getting behind the glass. *emergency note* please check out the new EMERGENCY #35, with matvei's incredulous essay on postmodern vulgarity and more to come, EMERGENCY is still kicking, with the assistance of nice people at chashama Thanks for scrolling all the way. Please keep me posted of your events. -Matvei ===== Matvei Yankelevich ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ugly duckling presse yan@pobox.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~ 112 Pioneer Street 718-243-0446 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Brooklyn, NY 11231 ~~~~~~~~~~~www.UglyDucklingPresse.org~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ & for more info on UDP's essential mission see an interview at the following link: http://insound.com/insoundoff/index.cfm?id=127=1 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 20:08:34 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: housepress/derek beaulieu Subject: filling Station magazine - back issue blowout! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the official filling Station summer back issue blowout! filling Station magazine is having a summer special on all available back issues! our usual price is $7 per issue, but for our back issue blow-out we are making available complete runs of issues #1-17 for the bargain price of $34 including postage. (that's only $2 per issue) every issue is 8.5"x11" saddle stitched and at least 48 pages each. in some cases we have very few copies left. this special only applies to complete sets of issues #1-17 and individual issues will not be sold at this price. filling Station was founded in 1994 and has featured poetry, fiction, interviews and book reviews by Fred Wah, Jeff Derkson, George Bowering, Matt Cohen, Anita Rau Badami, Robert Creeley, Victor Coleman, Robin Blaser and many many more. all cheques payable to "filling Station", orders & inquiries can be made to: derek beaulieu, 1339 19th ave nw calgary alberta canada t2m 1a5 housepress@home.com and dont forget to check out filling Station's new website: www.fillingstation.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 02:25:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: assay MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - assay should I put everything in quotes? " " in other words - since everything has been said? does it matter what order things are said in? "No." then any order is equivalent? "Well, order is equivalent in relation to length, but then not to degree of energy employed, ink per character per position, and so forth." you're saying it's a distinct difference based on the reside of what might otherwise be considered equivalence, insofar as any string might be considered equivalent to any other of equivalent length. "You're dealing with the phenomenology of meaning; think that there is no "Equivalence" in the sense that everything such as ""Equivalence"" is in quotation? "Exactly, that there is no "Equivalence" except _in regard to_ a particular domain, in this case k = string length." "So that meaning, for example - there is no "Meaning" except _in regard_ to a particular domain, for example, the _meaning of "onna" in Japanese._" and, as with equivalence, then one might consider "Meaning" as always already founded in plagiarism, thus returning us once again to the question of plagiarism and origin - to which Karl Kraus said in the beginning there was no plagiarism, which I reread as "in the beginning," i.e. "even in the beginning" or "right from the start" there was or is plagiarism. "Now what constitutes this plagiarism?" it's characterized as the situation, phenomenology, and culture of the copy, which is that of duplication or repetition, which is in turn or identically in relation to typification and standardization - the presence of structure dependent in symmetries or quasi- symmetries. "You mean that for meaning in the attributive sense, in relation to a particular domain, to exist, it requires a structure or substructure which operates as a moment or chora for the presencing of meaning?" exactly, and there is a secondary level of plagiarism as well, which is that of history and memory, that every word, phoneme, and rearrangement has always already been founded, situated, before, in other guises, in other contractual arrangements. "And by "contractual arrangements," you mean the descendents of the metapsychology of Freud, in other words the negotiations that exist among what might be considered cognitive entities, such entities being of the order of membranes, meshings, flux, and so forth?" so that there are structures all the way around and throughout, meaning-dependent structures, and structure-dependent meanings as well. "There is a community of the beneficiaries of meaning." "A community that is also a communality, in empathetic relationship or communion, among those holding themselves or meanings, holding _place_ in common." and origins have no place among origins this is a deconstructive turn, a deferrance and differend as well, allusion and suturing among systems appearing closed among subaltern communication "Which returns as rumor or gossip, the off-hand phrase, the speaking out-of-turn, the outspoken." spoken out of etiquette and assumptions of meaning and quotation, partly as extension, partly as mirroring and relation to and of dis/comfort, turning back and within or into the normative discourse "As far as everyone is concerned, this requires suturing, severing, "for the good of everyone," this notion erected well before democracy, the monarchial assumptions of hardened identities, aristocracies." for whom everything is always already a quotation, the signifier of connoisseurship, "one can be hardly original with so much at stake." when the origin is in circulation among copies, itself a copy, the grounds are laid for exchange, and what would later be called primordial inscription is, from the very beginning, underway. "What is underway is a sort of knowledge, independent of consciousness, which might in any case be considered a byproduct; in fact we are becoming intelligent enough to realize that consciousness is no such thing, but mythology, a chimera or emanation from manageriality of inscriptive domains." if knowledge is management, the way is open for the mercantile class to extend itself into other and more normative domains, as traders settle down, as others already adapt themselves to the memory of the imperial, the memory of power, and the cultural styles these entail. "It will duplicate itself to the end of time." "It will behave for "all intents and purposes" as if an "it" existed in one or another form or formation or accumulation." in the sense of "it rains" in which the "it" anchors the condition to the general, the memory of rain intensified through a node accessing all past, present, and future syntax and semantics. "Extend the "it" beyond the indo-european to a general duplication, but what is new, original, is each and every act of circumscription, quotation, accumulation - an entire surplus economics of speech boiling over, of inscription filling, fulfilling, spilling out until the exhaustion of defuge decathects these processes." a situation of somnolence, much as cell death can be related to the mythos of the dead drive; duplication, however, transforms into substance, not for survival, demarcation or embarkation, but in relation to an exhaustive return. "The history of the universe is thus carried through its non-history; the history of originary confusion is produced through the tendency towards proton decay and defusion, dissolution, of the remnants of structures, entities, inscriptions." the quotation always loses its demarcation in the final analysis, were there one; speech is silenced in speech, and the speaking of silence is silenced as well. "No need to mark word or language, then, as everything is produced, almost as if, but not quite, teleology were at work, towards an unknown, but not quite, end. And no need to specify as well; nothing but release or releasement." except within the place, domain, locale, site of accumulation, surplus region, for this returns to such a commonality of language, such communality, that one might indeed speak or inscribe, every such moment as if there were a local origin. "Such as that O of cartesian geometry which may in fact be placed anywhere, but one place, conveys place, out of which - that, and direction, and the institution of the unit, everything calculable might conceivably grow." from the jumble of strokes to the letter; from the jumble of letters to the word; from the jumble of works to the phrase; from the jumble of phrases to the sentence in deed. but in order, or order, for this to occur, that duplication, quotation, copying, typification, standardization, the letters standing in line, at least somewhat orderly, the origin of etiquette, otherwise everything falls apart, nothing is gained, speech is gainsaid. "In order to arrive here, in order to forget the point: this sudden explosion of structure in the universe thus precisely cooled with a balance of elements, on its way to absolute lack, unread, uninscribed, not perceived as such, not always already perceived." it is perception that opens this to us, perception throughout commonality, seeing and hearing what might be said and heard. as if for the very first time. "As if for the very first time." which is a conjunction from disjunction, the same among two, disregarding quotation, proceeding as if every speech, every utterance, every inscription, were the first, even the standard inscription of kings, for example each guarding the others, each in its own place, each place its own. "As if for the very first time, each place its own; there are the quotation marks of the first place, and those of the second, surrounding the memory of the temporality of the inscribed line." one might write " at the beginning and end, or at the conjunction or division of the same. "Or one might consider the closure a relay, thus opening, in the form and etiquette of relay, what remains to be seen, to be heard." to be absorbed, to become part and parcel of what we have in common, of memories, one might say, of resonances. "Or leaving off, at the beginning or end, of the ", as a potential or charging or recharging, a sign of da-sein, or of a certain ongoingness found necessary by every species." and determined in different ways. "And determined in different ways." _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 02:38:04 +0000 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: after counting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit we realized the following first editions of Pavement Saw Press books are about to go out of print Chris Stroffolino: Oops $8 Impress Chris, have one before he arrives in california (2 copies softcover) Robert Grenier: 12 from r h y m m s $20 Yes, the scrawl kind (12 copies, 4 color, envelope) Errol Miller: Magnolia Hall, $8 His third book, a rare breed of southern experimentalism (14 copies soft) Hands Collected: The Books of Simon Perchik (Poems 1949-1999) his first 16 out of print books packed into one volume (27 copies soft) $30 (17 copies H/C inquire) Prices above include postage to US & Canada. Inquire for others-- Payable to Pavement Saw Press. Special thanks to all who have supported our publication decisions by allowing us to sell out of the last 2 titles in under a year. The 2nd edition of the Perchik will be re-released this fall in a smaller format, 5.5 by 8.5, with a gloss cover also forthcoming this fall First full length books by: Daniel Zimmerman _Post Avant_ Mark DuCharme _Cosmopolitan Tremble_ Tony Gloeggler _One Wish Left_ Jeffrey Levine _Mortal, Everlasting_ and also Alan Catlin _Drunk and Disorderly_ Selected Poems (1978-2000) Pavement Saw #6 In 2002, The Collected Poems of Carroll Arnett (1958-1997) Julie Otten _ (????)_ Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 00:45:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: new books from Burning Deck Press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Two new titles from Burning Deck Press: Susan Gevirtz Hourglass Transcripts $10 $20 signed Hourglass Transcripts asks, What is the legible? How can the uncountable find the page outside of measurable time? To approach the preverbal, the unspeakable, it may be necessary to make an incision through the center of a line, to hyphenate, replace thought. Or, in "Hollowed out Book," the names of shipping lines float across the water like gigantic book titles, telling much about the distant and the up close. And so about the act of seeing. Form is motion through place--toward the not yet imagined: its fabulous possibility and the full extent of its previous demolition. Susan Gevirtz's books include Spelt (with Myung Mi Kim, a+bend press), Black Box Cutaway (Kelsey St. Press), Taken Place (Reality Street), Linen Minus (Avenue B), and a critical book, Narrative's Journey: The Fiction and Film Writing of Dorothy Richardson (Peter Lang). In Spring, 2000, she received the New Langton Arts "Bay Area Award in Literature." Jennifer Martenson Xq28 $5 $15 signed Xq28 is a satric response to the so-called "gay gene" that made headlines in 1993. Noting that no genetic marker for "lesbianism" has been found, the poem quickly becomes ensnared in footnotes. Mock-inquiries into the biology of lesbianism in the vocabulary of genetics and linguistics result in a hybrid world where the category of "woman" is a "dense, fibrous tissue." More concerned with codes of conduct than with genetic codes, Xq28 does not take sides on the nature/nurture question as much as it plays around in the ideological context of the debate. Jennifer Martenson's poems have appeared in Re: Chapbook 4, HOW2 and Insurance. She lives in Chicago. Xq28 is her first book. Both titles are available from SPD www.spdbooks.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:55:43 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit beat a dead horse to Banbury Cross to the faith based Police Dep't. and new poem "my last intern" if I've never seen Monica and Chandra together maybe their not separate? if Condit must take lie detector I urge Bush to take iq test negative number results acceptible ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 12:53:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Orange Subject: Re: Hannah's visions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hello all, barrett's initial response to the question of hannah weiner's visions seems in part, if i'm reading him right, to be looking for a way of reading her that avoids falling into common literary tropes such as the schizoid subject (as i think jeffrey jullich suggested) or writing the body. breton's automatism is certainly a useful point of reference, tho I think of artaud as well. artaud's letters to jacques riviere and early writings like _le pese-nerfs_ and _l'ombillic des limbes_ seem to articulate an acute awareness of a body and mind under siege and worked out in and through writing, perhaps as acute as weiner manifests in _the fast_. (the zaum-like language that appears in _ci-git_ and the late journals of artaud then might be seen as analogues to weiner's clairvoyant works. not really a great analogy, just a thought.) but perhaps a way of reading weiner's work -- and this is precisely what barrett suggests when he says that one way to go would be to "acknowledge that the words that came were 'symptoms' of an underlying illness and then decide on the relation of that condition to their literary value" -- this would be to read hannah less in terms of etiology, what causes her visions -- tho this is indeed fascinating, and i've always wondered if there were signs of her clairvoyance in the 1960s prior to her use of hallucinogenics and her writing of _the fast_ -- and more in terms of symptomatology. deleuze has suggested (in his monograph on sade and masoch and elsewhere), that a symptomatological reading would see the text not as the manifestation or product of illness or visions but more as a study in the various symptoms produced by a mode of existence. so sade for example is not a patient whose texts show symptoms from which the reader can then deduce an illness as cause; his texts are not products of an author who suffers from an illness or condition subsequently named after him. rather, sade is a clinician who carefully catalogs and distinguishes symptoms that together amount to a mode of existence. this means not the advocacy of a life of orgy, torture and murder but a sustained use of the tools of instrumental reason to critique reason itself, to show how the most irrational activity can be rendered systematic and rationalized. what amazes me about _the fast_ is its very lucid and detailed differentiating and cataloguing of signs and symptoms. for example metal is associated with the color purple and the sensation of pain, hence hannah has to avoid taking showers in the metal shower and using metal spoons and knives. wooden spoons pressed against her eyes absorb the purple, but she soon discovers that water is a more effective way of neutralizing the purple. also the color blue has no pain and offsets the effects of purple, and tap water from the kitchen sink which she collects in small glasses and pours onto her arms or legs to get rid of the purple. so there is a very clear method here of organizing signs as symptoms, grouping them together, and working through various ways of in a sense treating the very signs and symptoms she has read and diagnosed. where this symptomatological reading can takes us (or where i think where deleuze would take it), is less along the lines of the "literary" value of hannah's work as barrett has posed it, and more in terms of its value for life. i think richard tyler is getting at this when he asks "to what extent is poetry realy a productive thing," as is jeffrey when he suggests that Weiner's success could be very valuable in the empowerment or treatment of the similarly diagnosed, and the consciousness raising of the self-styled 'normal'....in a sense you ~cannot~ be schizophrenic in America. there's a wonderful moment towards the end of _the fast_, just before the police arrive, where weiner writes that I could feel the energy moving up my head, up the blocked channel by the ear and I thought, oh great, I'm finally going to get that blood vessel or nerve or whatever opened up and I'm going to be able to hear, for as much as I could see, I could never hear, and I was just beginning to hear a voice and I thought, great, communication will be so much easier. (41) right, so this is a discovery, a breakthrough in terms of how weiner is able to deal with her condition: open up to the voices, facilitate the communication, and perhaps ultimately stay off yr meds if need be. but of course society exacts a heavy price for this kind of decision. -- tom orange ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:58:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: A Very Stupid Article I Came Across In-Reply-To: <47804.3202117151@ny-chicagost2a-240.buf.adelphia.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT 0100,0100,0100Here's a link to an article by Times New RomanMichael Lind0100,0100,0100Garamond that is so insipid I can't begin to say. http://www.prospect- magazine.co.uk/highlights/artsandbooks_july01/index.html PS. I don't think T.S. Eliot ever finished his PhD . . . does someone know? 0100,0100,0100I'll go ahead and paste it here as well: {PRIVATE}Times New Roman{PRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT="} {HYPERLINK "http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/index.html"}{PRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT=Prospect"}{HYPERLINK "http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/index.html"} July 2001 0000,0000,FF00American fiction may be big, but the poetry is pitiful. Michael Lind applauds the range of British verse and finds in Dana Gioia a rare American talent. 0100,0100,0100 {PRIVATE}At the beginning of the 21st century, the contrast between the relative health of poetry in Britain and its dire condition in the US is striking. In Britain, the Poet Laureate is known if not always respected and the selection of the Professor of Poetry at Oxford makes the newspapers; in the US, nobody can tell you the name of the Poet Laureate (answer: Stanley Kunitz). The best British poets, such as Seamus Heaney, James Fenton, Charles Causley, Tony Harrison and Wendy Cope, use traditional verse techniques in innovative ways to write about a range of subjects in a variety of genres, including political satire and light verse. In the US, by contrast, almost all of the prestige poetry is written in the early 20th-century mode of "free verse"--that is to say, lines of prose chopped up at arbitrary points--and almost all of it consists of relatively short poems, usually a domestic epiphany or a description of a scene or item as its subject. Hardly anyone writes poetry in the US other than professors-- and hardly anybody reads it, other than the professors who write it. The collapse of American poetry into the black hole of academic obscurity is a process that has been occurring for half a century. As recently as the 1920s and 1930s, poets like Robert Frost and Robinson Jeffers were celebrities. Edna St Vincent Millay had her own radio programme. The book-length narrative poems of Edwin Arlington Robinson and Stephen Vincent Benet were bestsellers. Between the wars, as in the 19th century, American poets were more likely to be journalists, men of letters, or even public figures than professors--John Quincy Adams, the sixth president, translated Horace. {PRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT="}All of this changed when a gang of professors hijacked American poetry. TS Eliot and Ezra Pound--two expatriate Americans with PhDs--inspired several generations of literary intellectuals to believe that, in Eliot's words, "poets in our civilisation, as it exists at present, must be difficult." Their idea of difficulty was baffling readers with untranslated bits of Sanskrit (Eliot) and Mandarin Chinese (Pound) and writing poems that could not be read, only deciphered, sometimes with the help of footnotes like those the author appended to The Waste Land. This was new. Greek and Roman and Renaissance poets, like those of the 18th century and the Victorian period, had sometimes used allusions that would baffle the ignorant, but they counted on being understood by educated contemporaries. Even the Alexandrians of Ptolemy's Egypt, like Callimachus, who have come to symbolise mandarinism in art, wrote poetry that courtiers and generals of the Hellenistic era with a basic liberal education could appreciate. But Eliot and Pound were alienated even from the elite of their era in a way that Virgil and Dante and Shakespeare and Goethe and Tennyson had not been. The two expatriates wanted a coterie art that would ward off the uninitiated because they detested modern, mass, democratic civilisation. Eliot, an admirer of the French authoritarian ideologue Charles Maurras, famously declared his support for Anglo-Catholicism, classicism and royalism, while Pound made radio broadcasts during the second world war on behalf of Mussolini and Hitler. Both men vilified Jews in their poetry; Eliot also treated the Irish as the exemplary subhumans of the democratic age (Sweeney Erect). After the first world war, the esoteric right-wing modernism of Eliot and Pound found enthusiasts among the "southern fugitives," a group of reactionary professors of literature centered at Vanderbilt University in Nashville. After spending the 1930s writing polemics on agrarian economics and white supremacy, the wiser fugitives like Robert Penn Warren and Allen Tate metamorphosed into purely literary figures. In this capacity, they and allies like Cleanth Brooks moved north and conquered the Ivy League English departments in the 1940s and 1950s, spreading the gospel of Eliotic/Maurassien coterie culture. Oddly enough, these missionaries of aristocratic reaction found allies among many Jewish Trotskyist intellectuals, who equated popular art of any kind with the crude MassCult of their rivals, the Stalinists of the popular front era. Writing in 1971, the poet Kenneth Rexroth spoke of "the highly select Trotskyite-Southern Agrarian Establishment." Rexroth summarises the fate of US poetry after 1945: "Within a very short time after the second world war, all but a few American poets of any reputation had been recruited into the universities. Every college in the land competed with every other to catch a 'poet in residence.'" The Babylonian captivity of poetry on the American campus has been prolonged by the explosion of "creative-writing" programmes, each of which offers an MFA (Master of Fine Arts) in novel-writing, short-story writing or poetry-writing. Most of the products of these programmes are mediocre, but this has not prevented patiently networking MFAs from capturing the institutional power bases of what remains of "serious literature" in the US, where they use their connections to puff their allies and deride their rivals. The feuding MFAs are probably no more vicious than the court poets around Maecenas or Elizabeth I, and rivalry among artists can produce great art. Not, alas, in this case. The reason is that the MFA programmes were founded at the moment that the most prestigious American poets completely abandoned writing metrical verse (that is to say, verse) in favour of free verse (that is to say, prose). The first disciples of Eliot and Pound in the American professoriate, the so-called "academic formalists" of the mid-20th century, had followed their gurus in favouring an elite coterie art, but they had not imitated Old Possum and Ez in abandoning metrical verse. Instead, in their own poetry, they followed WH Auden, a virtuoso of almost every verse technique. The influence of Auden can be seen in the attention to craft in the work of the best mid-century academic formalists, James Merrill and Richard Wilbur. But then in the 1960s, Robert Lowell, the most famous though not the best American poet of the day, told the Paris Review: "I couldn't get any experience into tight metrical forms... Prose is in many ways better off than poetry." It is difficult to imagine Frost, or Tennyson, declaring that, gosh, writing good verse is just too hard, or being taken seriously if he had. But Lowell's abandonment of verse for chopped-up prose at the height of his ephemeral fame legitimated free verse for countless American poets who had never mastered the difficult craft of prosody. Thanks to their influence, several generations of American poets who cannot tell the difference between a heroic quatrain and an Alcaic stanza have convinced themselves that they are poets. By the 1950s, then, academic coterie poetry had driven out accessible poetry in the US, and by the 1970s, in a palace coup limited to the campus, free verse had defeated academic formalist verse. The last third of the 20th century saw a succession of short-lived schools--Black Mountain, Deep Image, LANGUAGE poetry--each of which consisted of a handful of professors advertising their wares with manifestos, using the ritualised language of aesthetic revolution inherited from the avant- garde of the first world war era. Under any label, the would-be revolutionary professor-poets all write pretty much the same kind of brief random descriptions and meditations in the same kind of amputated prose. This history explains how it is that John Ashbery and Jorie Graham, professors both, came to be the most celebrated poets in the US today. Ashbery, who began as a sprig from the tree of Auden, writes rambling, surreal monologues. The work of Ashbery and Graham illustrates the observation of the late Australian poet AD Hope that in "present day America and in much of the world beside, the poet feels no obligation to his reader. He believes either that he is a sort of dark oracle or that he has no contract to communicate." As a result, Hope said, "the rest of the world treats their poetry as a trivial game." {PRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT="}Inevitably, a reaction has set in against the mass-produced free verse of the professor-poets. In the 1970s and 1980s, a number of younger poets and critics began defying orthodoxy and writing in the meters and rhyme schemes which the academic authorities had proscribed. By the 1990s the "new formalists," as they were called, had two goals: to expand the audience of poetry beyond the universities, and to revive and renew the metrical techniques that had been discarded. Although verse narratives by Vikram Seth (The Golden Gate, 1986), Frederick Turner (The New World, 1985) and myself (The Alamo, 1997) sold better than most literary novels, the project of winning back the audience of fiction in prose, to fiction and drama in verse, has not yet succeeded. The efforts of the poetry establishment to win back readers have also failed, in spite of "poetry on the subways" and readings from "cowboy poets" on National Public Radio. So far the new formalists have produced more manifestoes than masterpieces, and the movement may degenerate into another academic clique (almost all of them, like their rivals, make their living by teaching creative writing or literature). Even so, movements are remembered for the handful of geniuses they produce, rather than for the mediocrities. By general consent the leading figure of the new formalism is Dana Gioia, who is a very considerable poet indeed. Gioia, who recently turned 50, should not be a poet at all, by the standards of the academic world. Before retiring in his forties to devote himself to literature, he had a successful career in business, becoming a vice-president of General Foods; he is happily married; he has no history of confinement in asylums, and is not a victim of substance abuse; he does not even own a black turtleneck sweater of the kind that authentic poets wear when posing for photographs. He earned the collective enmity of the creative-writing industry when he wittily vivisected it in a widely-read 1989 essay in the Atlantic Monthly, "Can Poetry Matter?" For the last decade, the professor-poets have avenged themselves by alternately pretending that he does not exist and denouncing him. Although Gioia is one of the few American poets whose books sell, a few years ago the MFA apparat ensured that his name was left off the invitation list to a White House conclave on poetry. But to the horror, no doubt, of the free- verse establishment's tenured representatives, the only contemporary poet whom First Lady Hillary Clinton quoted was Dana Gioia. But the snubs do not matter, because Gioia's reputation as a poet and a critic has grown by word of mouth. This year has seen the publication of his third collection of poems, Interrogations at Noon, and of his libretto for the composer Alva Henderson's opera, Nosferatu. Gioia is considered a slow writer by members of the campus poetry subculture who crank out a new collection of poems every year or so (it's easy to be prolific when your lines don't scan or rhyme). The accumulating size of Gioia's oeuvre, however, is as impressive as its diversity. In addition to three collections of lyric poetry and the libretto, Gioia has translated Seneca, Eugenio Montale and other Italian authors (Gioia, a Californian by heritage, is of Italian and Mexican descent). His lyric poems have been set to music by dozens of composers. This matters because, in the words of the critic Gary Taylor: "Genre is itself important because different genres usually deal, in different styles, with different topics and materials, and so the mastery of more genres implies a greater variety of human stuff." Interrogations at Noon demonstrates that Gioia has a range matched in contemporary poetry in English only by James Fenton. Gioia, who studied at Harvard with Elizabeth Bishop and Robert Fitzgerald, can be as coyly allusive as the late James Merrill, in "Elegy with Surrealist Proverbs as Refrain." But he can also turn to satire in "The Archbishop," subtitled "For a famous critic," and then again to a nature idyll of Goethean simplicity and strangeness in "The End of the World." This haunting poem concludes: "I stood at the edge where the mist ascended,/ My journey done where the world ended./I looked downstream. There was nothing but sky,/ The sound of the water, and the water's reply." Unlike so many of his contemporaries, Gioia has avoided creating a niche for himself by adopting a single, predictable style or set of subjects. But if there were typically "Gioian" poems, they would be the lyrics in which the subject is the wistful erotic longing of personae who are beyond youth but not yet old. One poem in this vein, "Summer Storm," is already well-known: "We stood on the rented patio/While the party went on inside./You knew the groom from college./I was a friend of the bride./We hugged the brownstone wall behind us/To keep our dress clothes dry/And watched the sudden summer storm/Floodlit against the sky." Critics of poetry such as this complain that it is akin to popular song. Those critics concede far more than they intend to. American popular music has conquered the world precisely because it unites the straightforward evocation of sentiments that our cynical intellectuals deride with the meter and rhyme that make language dance. In the work of Dana Gioia, American poetry dances as it has not danced for a long time. Michael Lind is a journalist, poet and novelist who lives in Washington DC {PRIVATE}{HYPERLINK "http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/index.html"}{PRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT=Home Page"}{HYPERLINK "http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/index.html"} {HYPERLINK "http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/contact_us/index.html"}{PRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT=Contact Us"}{HYPERLINK "http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/contact_us/index.html"} {HYPERLINK "http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/index/index.html"}{PRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT=Index"}{HYPERLINK "http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/index/index.html"} {HYPERLINK "http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/highlights/index.html"}{PRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT=Highlights"}{HYPERLINK "http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/highlights/index.html"} {HYPERLINK "http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/whats_new.html"}{PRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT=What's New"}{HYPERLINK "http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/whats_new.html"} All material copyright Prospect 2001. Reproduction by any means is strictly forbidden. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 18:15:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: tuning MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII 0 The Great Struggle: assay 3 sed 's/ /[ ]/g' gg > yy 6 sed 's/ /[ ]/g' gg > yy 7 sed 's/ /[ ]/g' yy > gg 8 sed 's/ /[ ]/g' gg > yy 9 sed 's/ /[ ]/g' yy > gg 10 tr a-z " " < gg > yy 13 sed 's/ /( )/g' yy > gg 14 sed 's/ /( )/g' gg > yy 15 sed 's/ /( )/g' yy > gg 16 sed 's/ /( )/g' gg > yy 17 sed 's/ /( )/g' yy > gg 18 sed 's/ /( )/g' gg > yy 19 sed 's/ /( )/g' yy > gg 29 sed 's/ /[ ]/g' gg > yy 30 sed 's/ /[ ]/g' yy > gg 31 sed 's/ /[ ]/g' gg > yy 32 sed 's/ /[ ]/g' yy > gg 34 tr a-z " " < gg > yy 37 sed 's/ /( )/g' yy > gg 38 sed 's/ /( )/g' gg > yy 39 sed 's/ /( )/g' gg > yy 40 sed 's/ /( )/g' yy > gg 41 sed 's/ /( )/g' gg > yy 42 sed 's/ /( )/g' yy > gg 44 tr A-Z " " < gg > yy 46 tr ."_? 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[ ][ ] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:16:29 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: Inquiry: Ecological poetry? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Jack Collom, esp. the book _Arguing with something Plato said_. Mark DuCharme >From: sylvester pollet >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Inquiry: Ecological poetry? >Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:50:26 -0400 > >Certainly Antler, & Gary Lawless. Ginsberg as obvious as Snyder. Nanao >Sakaki, quintessential, though I'm not sure how he'd fly in Korea. If you >contact Gary Lawless at Gulf of Maine Books in Brunswick Maine, he could >ship you the whole store. best, Sylvester > > >Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:23:16 -0700 > >From: "Walter K. Lew" > >Subject: Inquiry: Ecological poetry? > > > >I have been asked to participate in a poetry seminar in S. Korea at > >the end of July and need some help from yr expertise. I was > >originally only supposed to give a reading and a lecture on Yi Sang > >(for YS, cf. Poems for the Milliennium, vol. 1, or Muae 1 [1995]), > >but now I have also been asked to address the theme of the > >environment/ecology in American poetry. I am glad to do so, but wd > >appreciate more leads as to which poets/critics to read in this > >regard, aside from an obvious one like Gary Snyder (a personal > >favorite is actually Jim Morrison on when the music's over). The > >pastoral dimension of U.S. poetry is somewhat related to this, of c, > >but often as an attempt at a transcendence of history, whereas > >"ecological poetry" wd seem to refer to a politically direct > >engagement/confrontation w civilizing, industrial, or Kapital-driven > >damage to ecosystems (tho' Marx was no defender of pristine Nature, > >and pastoral poetry, whether Chinese or British, obviously required > >that the wilderness be tamed.) I think there wd have been a lot of > >Sixties writing on this topic, e.g. Bly, in combination w protest > >against the Vietnam War, but I mainly read a different type of 60s > >poetry. Or has a favorite poet of the so-called "tree huggers" > >emerged? Any help will be appreciated and, if you prefer, please > >back-channel. I am open to suggestions for both poetry and incisive > >scholarship, anywhere in the range between dithyrambs in defense of > >Gaia to suburban serenading of a front lawn. Thanks, Walter P.S. If > >anyone on the Poetics list is in Korea, drop me a line--Let's meet! > > > >-- > >Walter K. Lew > >11811 Venice Blvd. #138 > >Los Angeles, CA 90066 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 01:08:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Fouhy Subject: Poetry Series July Readings Comments: To: "Zodiacll@aol.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For Immediate Release: Creative Arts Café Poetry Series Summer Readings Features and OPEN MIKE Mt. Kisco, NY: Monday July 16th at 7:30 PM, The Creative Arts Café Poetry Series at Northern Westchester Center for the Arts celebrates summer with award winning poet Jeanne Marie Beaumont. Monday July 23rd at 7:30, Poet and educator Marj Hahne will read selections of her work. A reception, book signing and open mike follow each reading. Jeanne Marie Beaumont grew up in the Philadelphia area and holds an MA from Columbia University. Her poems have appeared widely in journals and anthologies including Harper's, The Nation, and Poetry. She has taught at the Frost Place Annual Festival of Poetry in Franconia, NH and at Rutgers University. Jeanne Marie Beaumont's first book, Placebo Effects, is winner of the 1996 National Poetry Series, selected by William Matthews and published by WW Norton in 1997. She has recently completed a new manuscript. She has read her poems in many venues including the Dodge Poetry Festival, in colleges, libraries, public gardens, bars, and even once, in a firehouse! For seven years Jeanne Marie Beaumont was publisher and editor of the literary magazine American Letters and Commentary, for which she is now a contributing editor. She currently lives in NYC. Marj Hahne is a poet and an educator. Recently transplanted from Philadelphia to New York City, she teaches poetry workshops to children and adults at schools, museums, bookstores, and conferences. She is a regular at the Cornelius Street Café in NYC. Her reading of her poem for Ellis Paul at NWCA’s Ellis Paul concert in February at NWCA was a terrific crowd pleaser among people who were not the usual poetry fans. Sharon Olds best expresses for Marj why she writes and teaches poetry and why she shares what she writes: "To the poet, the human community is like the community of birds to a bird, singing to each other. Love is one of the reasons we are singing to one another, love of language itself, love of sound, love of singing itself, and love of the other birds." Marj wants to (re)awaken people to the restorative power of words, that is, to poetry as another mode of artistic expression that can embolden people toward real self-empowerment and ultimately toward a collective healing. The series is made possible by grants from the New York State Council on the Arts and the Bydale Foundation. There is a suggested donation of $7.00; $5.00 for seniors and students. Coffee, cake and refreshments are included. The Creative Arts Cafe is located in the gallery of Northern Westchester Center for the Arts, 272 North Bedford Road, Mt. Kisco, on Rte 117, near Staples. For further information, call Cindy Beer-Fouhy, Director of Literary Arts at NWCA, 241 6922. For directions log onto: http://www.nwcaonline.org/info_dir.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:16:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Althusser Query Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Anyone know of an English translation of Louis Althusser's _Sur la reproduction_ (Paris: Presses universitaires de France, 1995), in process or published? Aaron Vidaver ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:33:53 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: brom In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" yo bow wow! yo borm! you sexy devils. who is this "wide cecilia" anyway. keep the aspidistra flying, me lads. md At 4:35 PM -0700 7/9/01, George Bowering wrote: >Had lunch with David bromige and wide cecilia and my daughter Thea >and Mike Matthews, our co-author today, and though Dave is a little >slow, especially in walking (a lot of that due to hius terrible >feet), he seemed to keep up ,mentally. >-- >George Bowering >Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:42:31 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: from the desk of the anti-laureate In-Reply-To: <22.18826352.287bf7d6@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" a touching virtual acceptance speech, anselm --i must admit i thought an antilaureate would say no way just on principle. At 2:16 AM -0400 7/10/01, Anselm Hollo wrote: >"With all the ironies and contradictions appertaining thereunto" (High >Commissioner Robert Archambeau of the United States Anti-Laureate >Commission), I am delighted to accept my appointment as US Anti-Laureate for >the year 2001. > >While I agree with several of Barrett Watten's points regarding the "Iowa >exclusion" and the "system of representation on which the [US] Poet >Laureate[ship] is based," I prefer to read the title as simply representing a >"Big No" (as in George Grosz's remarkable autobiography, "Ein kleines Ja und >ein grosses Nein" -- "A Small Yes and a Big No") to the "laurels" bestowed by >some librarian and his cronies in the (increasingly) provincial capital of >the world.. > >A "No," as well, to the tiresome hype (put out by publishers, arrangers of >literary events, etc.) of all the "award-winning" So-and-sos -- a hype to >which perhaps only "arts administration" bureaucrats still pay any attention. > > >As for the Iowa Exclusion, and the Exclusion of the Great Dead, I may, upon >further Pataphysical Reflection and Discussion with The High Commissioner and >other interested parties, decide to suggest waiving these in years to come. >The Anti- and Alternative Laureates are legion, and include many more than >those nominated this time around. I agree with Watten that Robert Grenier's >indomitable US American lyricism deserves recognition, as does the dynamic, >visionary, linguistically and philosophically innovative work of Alice Notley >(my nominee). > >Since the Anti-Laureateship is not funded by taxpayers, I cannot invite >Notley, or Grenier, or Watten, or any of you, to come and read at the Library >of Congress. I have, however, acted as an advisor to the illustrious Left >Hand Reading Series in Boulder, Colorado, for the past couple of years, and >intend to continue to do so. The organizers of the series, poets Laura E. >Wright and Mark DuCharme, pass a Venerable Hat for Honorarium, which thus >varies according to the number of solvent persons in the audience. In its >modest way, this series has been, is, and will be working toward "undoing the >system of representation on which the [US] Poet Laureate[ship] is based" >(Watten). For my personal record of efforts in that direction, see my book >"Caws and Causeries: Around Poetry and Poets" (La Alameda/University of New >Mexico Press, ISBN 1-888809-15-9). > >And in case Bob Grumman, and anyone else, truly wants to refresh his or her >memory of any of my work, s/he now has an opportunity to do so by asking the >local public librarian to obtain a copy of "Notes on the Possibilities and >Attractions of Existence: Selected Poems 1965-2000 by Anselm Hollo," just out >from Coffee House Press (ISBN 1-56689-115-9). > >Allow me to end this message with the poem "Piano Solo" by Chile's Anti-Poet >Nicanor Parra: > >Since Man's life is nothing but an action at a distance, >A bit of foam shining in a glass; >Since trees are nothing but agitated furniture, >Mere chairs and tables in perpetual motion; >Since we ourselves are merely beings >(Just as god himself is no more than god); >Since we don't talk to be listened to >But merely to get others to talk, >And since an echo precedes the voices that produce it; >And since we haven't even the consolation of chaos >In a garden that yawns and fills with air, >A puzzle we have to solve before dying >So that we can be tranquilly resuscitated >After we've over-indulged in women; >And since there's also a heaven in hell, >Allow me to do a thing or two: > >I want to make a shuffling noise with my feet, >I want my soul to find its body. > >(Translated by Jorge Elliott) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:17:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: laurie macrae Subject: Barrett and Hannah MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thank you, Barrett. And thanks too for telling us more about Hannah. Laurie Macrae __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:04:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: brom In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >yo bow wow! yo borm! you sexy devils. who is this "wide cecilia" anyway. >keep the aspidistra flying, me lads. md > >At 4:35 PM -0700 7/9/01, George Bowering wrote: >>Had lunch with David bromige and wide cecilia and my daughter Thea >>and Mike Matthews, our co-author today, and though Dave is a little >>slow, especially in walking (a lot of that due to hius terrible > >feet), he seemed to keep up ,mentally. > >-- Yikes, that was supposed to be wife Cecilia. Hope she doesnt see this. I am going to diner with them in an hour or 2. -- George Bowering Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 20:05:23 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: A Very Stupid Article I Came Across MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/11/01 7:43:50 PM, Gallaher@MAIL.UCA.EDU writes: << I don't think T.S. Eliot ever finished his PhD . . . does someone know? >> He did not. His dissertation, Knowledge and Experience in the Philosophy of F.H. Bradley, was completed and approved while he was a Ph.D. candidate at Harvard. However, Eliot had traveled to England and did not return to Harvard for seventeen years. So the final requirements for the degree went unmet. Hugh Kenner, in Invisible Poet, discussed the Dissertation which was subsequently published by Columbia University Press. Best, Bill William James Austin.com Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 20:11:55 -0400 Reply-To: BobGrumman@nut-n-but.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: request for questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Questions I ask myself about why I go on with my equivalent of Tinfish, the Runaway Spoon Press (or, for that matter, and website, Comprepoetica, which I haven't updated in months): Does anyone give a rap about it except those I publish and some of their relatives and close friends? If that's the case, why am I continuing it? Is there any hope of its ever doing any good for poetry beyond making a few deserving poets know that someone cares enough about their work to publish it? Good look with your presentation, Susan, and apologies for the darkness of the questions--Bob G. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 20:16:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r....voices... re: hannah's voices...i'm not much given to e.s.p...'bout a year ago..my wife had a tai-chi friend, whom i had never met, who was dying...it lingered in the air... i had pretty much given up writing poems...because they usually came at nite...this voice kept waking me up...for a long while i kept telling the 'voice' i had a day job & didn't need any more work..."it" must have looked for another place to land... this nite "it" woke me up and sd "write a poem for x"...i sd no...."it" sd again louder 'write a poem for x"....so i cranked up the compaq...and wrote a memorial pome...i then checked my e-mail...'she had died'...3:33...in Plato'sCave...the fire of reason is just the alarm clock burning.....DRn... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 18:03:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Hannah's visions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi just reading the archive and of course this is the thread that caught my eye. Camille has told me about her project looking at neurology and poetry and I remain tremendously excited about it. This discussion is interesting and I wanted to add a few things -- first, Jeffrey, dear, I have to say your attitude in your initial response to Camille is really one of the reasons I do not feel comfortable on this list. Maybe she is "tougher" than me, being in a PhD program and all, but look at her post -- it was open. Yours seems bossy and condescending. Anyway we are friends off list Jeffrey, in a correspondent sense, so please don't let this disturb you too much. I just have to say it as I nervously reenter this particular fray. UGH. I'm so glad to see inserted in this thread the announcement of a conference on definitions of normalcy. As Camille says, we can look from "our" point of view and find instances of "schizophrenia" in all cultures; this doesn't surprise me, we all have brains. The way it is understood in other cultures and languages is key however. Of course, as Laurie (I think?) writes, in ours it is not too easy to be that way. And then as if to make up for it we valorize it in special, "nifty" cases, such as Weiner, Van Gogh etc. Which also climbs in to bed with the weird ways we deal with artists in this culture. And in to bed with the weird ways we deal with women in this culture. (I for one do not think Stein or Woolf were crazy at all. Maybe irritated.) But in other frameworks are other histories and possibilities. Including the framework of psychiatric wards, which we really ought to fund in this country. Joan of Arc worked it. A Native psychiatrist I heard speak once said in his tribe (it was years ago and I unfortunately forget which one)'s language/understanding "schizophrenia" would translate to "visionary". No doubt such semantic differences would also be reflected in the treatment, care, and respect accorded such folks. Well, maybe that's all from me. Is the bird that pecks at itself in my car's sideview mirror nuts? x Elizabeth ___________________________________________ Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page2.html ___________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 18:07:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: ps Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ps of course I realize the problems of the words "culture" and the idea of ours as singular, as well as the problems of the word "crazy", etc. so no need to dissuade me of phrases I am using in trying to get to something else -- in a brief email. thanks, Eliz. ___________________________________________ Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page2.html ___________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 18:10:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: joan of arc Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ok, last from me! yikes. I just wanted to add that I bet Joan of Arc understanding herself and living in a less secular world than our own helped her. ___________________________________________ Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page2.html ___________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 18:34:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Sylvia Plath Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" OK dears, one last and I promise not to post for at least a week. During a quite recent bout of insomnia I finally finished reading Sylvia Plath's unabridged diaries (tho I did a little abridging myself, I'll admit) and I'd posit that her biggest problem was not any form of mental illness except that which is easily caught from the culture of wanting too much to be pleasing to or to please men intimately and intellectually and of wanting too hard to be in the New Yorker. Her journal writing is much, much better in high school, before these concerns nearly completely take over, in my opinion. Some of my favorite of her writing is in the early journals and in some of the stories in Johnny Panic that Ted Hughes so sweetly introduced as underdeveloped. (Reminds me of Salman Rushdie's bratty intro to his deceased friend Angela Carter's Collected Stories.) I haven't read all my Dolce & Gabanna, I mean yknow, so I can't totally follow you, Barrett, but I agree it is no good to romanticize schiz, or I'd say, any state of being. But if one of their points was that US culture is schizophrenic, I'd have to agree (tho I do get sick of being analyzed by eurotrash, haha!). And add manic depressive, repressed, cute, blonde and lots of other adjectives. Also I want to plug Juliana Spahr's Everybody's Autonomy: Connective Reading and Collective Identity, which I have been thoroughly wrapped up in this sunny windy afternoon. Has it been discussed much listside? Elizabeth ___________________________________________ Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page2.html ___________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:01:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: peter culley Subject: re anti anti anti laureate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Envy", in the sense I scare quoted it, is a term that those with power = use to neutralise the criticisms of those with less power. And what, = exactly, is "literary envy" except a version of this? As a west coast = Canadian I have reflexively dissed the Toronto literary scene all my = life--does that mean I secretly want to be a part of it? That's = ridiculous. My exasperation with much of the stamp, prize and laureate postings was = that neither their light dusting of alternativity nor forced whimsy = failed to disguise their replication of the mindset and values they = purported to critique. The unreflective and undifferentiated use of = such terms as envy and rank and file confirms this. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 21:35:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Killian Subject: Poets in Film (San Francisco, Friday July 13) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi everyone, it's Kevin Killian. If you live in San Francisco and are ready for a treat, come and see ME at ATA (Artists Television Access) in a revival of "Taking Back the Dolls," here's the description from Planet Out.com: Taking Back The Dolls (1994, USA) Director: Singer, Leslie "Scratch the surface and whaddya get? More surface." --Jennifer North, Taking Back the Dolls Leslie Singer dykes-up The Valley of the Dolls in this over-the-top pixel vision melodrama. Phenomenally dry humor and truly hot sex combine as we fly through the high-fashion, druggie lesbo lives of supermodel Anne Welles (Leslie Singer), her depressive Seconal-addict roommate Jennifer North (Cecilia Dougherty) and the gun-toting Neely Shannon Chen (Valerie Soe). With music by the Carpenters, Nirvana, and Suicide and appearances from Kevin Killian and Eileen Myles. And the Village Voice said, "Kurt Cobain's vocals make a guest appearance in Leslie Singer's hilarious Taking Back the Dolls (1994), in which "Come as You Are" substitutes for Dionne Warwick's "(Theme From) Valley of the Dolls." This lascivious lesbo take on Jacqueline Susann's quintessential camp novel remains faithful to Jackie's love of the fervidly melodramatic while introducing its own inspired anachronistic flourishes, such as Jennifer North's friendship with supermodel Gia." ATA is ATA Gallery 992 Valencia Street, San Francisco (415) 824-3890 The show begins at 9:30. There are also some short subjects playing, none of which with me in them. The whole program lasts 77 minutes. "Taking Back the Dolls" was for several years withheld by the Jacqueline Susann estate who finally caved in. Warning, this video contains explicit sex scenes including penetration (so you'll never see this on public TV). I play Kevin Gillian, the imperious cosmetics tycoon who makes Anne Welles the "Gillian Girl." Eileen plays, mmm, I forget her name, but she plays the henpecking girlfriend of the heroin-addicted "Gia" (played by Laurie Weeks). Hope to see you all there! -- Kevin K. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 05:55:04 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Randolph Healy Subject: Re: from the desk of the anti-laureate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I hear what you're saying Maria. Still, it'd be a pity if every action of an anti-laureate were completely determined by being anti-predicated on those of the laureate. Whatever one might feel about the laureate, the one hundred percent accurate portrait of them generated by the hollowed out space of their antipresence would hardly count as a breath of fresh air. Hey Anselm, that's brilliant news about your book. Congrats. best Randolph ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maria Damon" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 10:42 PM Subject: Re: from the desk of the anti-laureate > a touching virtual acceptance speech, anselm --i must admit i thought an > antilaureate would say no way just on principle. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 01:43:20 +0000 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: ecological poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Koller, tho what I like best is his prose-- also there is an anthology from Pudding House http//www.puddinghouse.com on the subject, the backwaters anthology with arlo gutherie Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 04:38:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r...anti-po laurio ...if nominated i will not run....if elected i will not serve....poetry is hell....DRn.... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 05:15:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - "And by "contractual arrangements," you mean the descendents of "A community that is also a communality, in empathetic "As far as everyone is concerned, this requires not quite, end. And no need to specify "As if for the very first "As if for the very first "And determined in fo stnednecsed eht naem uoy ",stnemegnarra lautcartnoc" yb dnA" citehtapme ni ,ytilanummoc a osla si taht ytinummoc A" seriuqer siht ,denrecnoc si enoyreve sa raf sA" yficeps ot deen on dnA .dne ,etiuq ton tsrif yrev eht rof fi sA" tsrif yrev eht rof fi sA" ni denimreted dnA" "And by "contractual arrangements," you mean the descendents of "A community that is also a communality, in empathetic "As far as everyone is concerned, this requires not quite, end. And no need to specify "As if for the very first "As if for the very first "And determined in _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:15:07 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: "j.letourneux" Subject: Re: A Very Stupid Article I Came Across Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I too saw this, how unfortunately, prior to your having posted its text. =20 I'm embarrassed for the author, but is there a charm, any, in its un- lettered boobery? Could it be that such an undistinguished line of= thinking, such a poverty, such an ignorance might be, might be...so bad that it's ....good? Non, non, je plaisante. Culottes de la pens=E9e. =20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:50:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Rhoda Rosenfeld & Reg Johanson reading / launch of W4 & Chips at KSW Comments: To: ruthless@critique.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The Kootenay School of Writing and Thuja Books invite you to the launch of a special issue of W4 & Chips, a chapbook by Reg Johanson Readings by Rhoda Rosenfeld and Reg Johanson Saturday July 14 8pm 201 - 505 Hamilton Street Vancouver BC Canada 604-688-6001 FREE W4 is a special issue with two long poems--"forty-six thirty-seven" by Rhoda Rosenfeld & "Citizen's Arrest" by Reg Johanson. prosopography metiri mmitation Quarriers grinding quintessence of rust Murex brandaris from Tyre. Murex trunculus. The purple headband! Spathe! the Pineal! -- Rhoda Rosenfeld, from "forty-six thirty-seven" Jane Rang began a new business called Jane's Reality. "People are starving" coils around her throat transmitting the instrumental techniques of the culture, in particular its language, with its system of meanings and logic and ways of categorizing experiences, yet she can still say "I love this job. It gives you a combination of practical skills and a strong theoretical foundation" reassuring, multi, lingering, on the terrace as Jakarta steams below, touches the nearly-empty glass to his forehead, "this is nearly what it's like" "a poem with no reader" calm in metaphor : any port in a storm coracles bearing little monks across submarine-infested waters sailors plucking guitars in their bunks Chuck Berry records await the aliens now Chewable for those who have trouble with Choking -- from Reg Johanson, "Citizen's Arrest" SUBSCRIBE TO W: W is published sporadically by the Kootenay School of Writing, a not-for-profit writer-run centre founded in1984 to carry out counter-hegemonic writing practices in trans-national, de-institutionalized, anti-professional and collaborative contexts. To subscribe for three issues send $15 with your name and address to: 201-505 Hamilton Street Vancouver BC Canada V6B 2R1. Make cheques payable to the Kootenay School of Writing. Exchanges are welcomed. CHIPS: is available for $6 by post from the Friends of Runcible Mountain, Box 2684 Station Terminal, Vancouver BC Canada V6B 3W8. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:50:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Free Seminars at KSW: Investigating Standard English & Studies in Practical Negation Comments: To: broken_bricks@dialectics.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Two Free Seminars Kootenay School of Writing 201 - 505 Hamilton Street Vancouver BC Canada V6B 2R1 604-688-6001 Investigating Standard English In the Corporate University, English departments pay their way by acting as the cops of Standard English. What privileges does the demand to reproduce Standard English protect? What does it censor? Which speakers are arrested, marked? Standard English education as Ideological State Apparatus: the testing industry. Standard English and global capitalism: the ESL racket. Standard English as colonialism: Residential Schools and the destruction of aboriginal languages. Patwa and hybridity. What if English instructors, as gatekeepers, let everybody in? A course in techniques of effective plagiarism? Texts TBA. Investigations begin 2pm Sunday September 9. For copies of readings call 604-688-6001 or e-mail . Studies in Practical Negation I-The Parable of the Shit-Eater (July 29): Discussion of the anti-libidinal non-pluralistic grammar proposed by Sianne Ngai in "Raw Matter: A Poetics of Disgust." II-Elements of Semantic Refusal (September 30): Evaluation of the argument (advanced by Jeff Derksen in Culture Above the Nation) that semantic uselessness, anti-representationalism and materiality make P. Inman's Uneven Development (1982) commodity-resistant and "unrecoupable into the culture-ideology of globalization." III-What Isn't To Be Undone? (October 28): Assessment of the scope of criticality in the writing of Bruce Andrews with specific attention to the thesis that Confidence Trick (1981) disrupts naturalised whiteness through "continual mocking exposure of dominant identities" (Juliana Spahr, Everybody's Autonomy). All sessions are free & commence at 2pm. To register & obtain materials email or leave a message at 604-688-6001. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:40:19 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: snacks at readings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit what no tryptofan what's wrong with chicken fried steak and canned gravy give weight to words ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:45:53 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: Petition for the Impeachment of Chief Justice Rehnquist and Associate Jus... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes yes let's "petition" Billy Collins to draft a fine ode on this ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:52:25 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: brom MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit a Freudian slip ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:23:34 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Sotere Toreggian? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010710121629.007d9100@saclink.csus.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:16 PM -0700 7/10/01, Joshua Mckinney wrote: >If you know the work (and any bio info) of the poet Sotere Toreggian, and >if you would like to be interviewed for a Capital Publica Radio piece >(Scaramento) on him, contact Elaine Hess at evoice@att.net jeez, that name seems to swim at me from a great distance ringing a bell, how's that for a mixed metaphor. what's he written? i have an image of his face, too, but no context for it. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:32:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Wheeler Subject: Sesshu Foster & Anita Andrezzi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Land addresses for Sesshu Foster and Anita Andrezzi, should any one have them, would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks. Susan "Snacks Czar" Wheeler ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:55:14 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: RaeA100900@AOL.COM Subject: NEWS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear List Persons, This is just to say that I got copies of my Green Integer book, The Pretext, in the mail today. I imagine Douglas will be making a formal announcement soon. Anyway, if anyone has already ordered it, it should be on its way. Yours, Rae Armantrout ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:50:19 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anselm Hollo Subject: No to Rome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:42:31 -0600 Maria Damon wrote:=20 <> I=92m just a little anti-laureate in my Avignon (or Pisa), i.e. Boulder=20 Colorado, saying Not No Way, but simply No to Rome (D.C.). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 20:00:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Cope Subject: San Diego possibility Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hello all, I'm looking for someone who might be in the San Diego area ca. July 24-August 16 to sublet a one bedroom apt., with rent a negotiable (if not altogether negligible) issue. Perks include easy access to the UCSD's archive, beaches, the zoo, Seaworld, etc. The catch: a cat who needs to be fed, let outside/inside etc. If anyone is planning a trip, or needs a nice vacation, or knows someone who is/needs either, please backchannel or call when convenient. All best! Stephen Cope scope@ucsd.edu (619) 298-8761 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:31:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Metaphorik MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 12:45:24 -0700 From: George Lakoff Hello out there! We would like to invite everybody who is interested in metaphor and metonymy to take a look at the site of our new online journal metaphorik.de (http://www.metaphorik.de/english.htm). You find there the online journal metaphorik.de (first issue will appear at the end of December 2001!), relevant links to other sites dealing with metaphor and metonymy, links to articles already published and our metaphor box (best metaphor of the month). Metaphorik.de invites authors to submit their manuscripts and welcomes criticism to improve the journal (new links etc.)! We can only become better if you contact us (info@metaphorik.de)!!! Kind regards, Martin Doering and Dietmar Osthus Martin Doering Dr. Dietmar Osthus Universitaet Hamburg Universitaet Bonn Institut für Romanistik Romanisches Seminar Von Melle Park 6 Am Hof 1 20146 Hamburg 53113 Bonn Mail:ernst.martin.doering@gmx.de osthus@uni-bonn.de Tel.:0049/(0)40-422 47 60 0049/(0)228-733970 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:55:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: Hannah's Visions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Perhaps Hannah Wiener's poetry and life best exemplies a crucial determination of reception that affects not just poets with Wiener's undiagnozed condition but poetry as a cultural production: the difference between "appreciation" and "understanding" (Ron Silliman makes this distinction in his back-cover blurb to Charles Bernstein's 1980 poetry book, Controlling Interests. -- I am just citing this from memory, which was at the time I first read it, a formative distinction for me personally.) About five years ago Josh Schuster organized an evening celebration of John Wieners's work at the Kelly Writers House in Philadelphia. Wieners and some of his Boston entourage (Charles Shively among others) came to read poetry, and Bob Perelman, Rachel Blau DuPlessis, myself -- at UPenn like Josh -- presented on Wieners's work. Alan Davies, who had typset Behind the State Capitol, came up from NYC and gave an impromptu talk about Wieners and their friendship as well. At UPenn we had a Wieners reading group going a month or so before the event. Bob said to me he was nervous about how the event was framed as a "celebration" (a default generic setting for a lot of events, and through no fault of Josh's or the Writers House, obviously): how does one acknowledge the literary interest we have in his poetry and at the same time not ignore the condition under which the poetry was written and with which Wieners continues to live (Wieners suffers from a form of chemical imbalance that is diagnozed as schizophrenia). It was the difficulty of finding a way to not just appreciate but understand Wieners, and understand him/his work not only as a reader/thinker/writer, but as an event participant and audience member of an occasion designed to in some way acknowledge Wieners the poet and individual. This dilemma was what was making Bob nervous. And this dilemma of reception is made even more crucial because, of course, the variety of conditions labeled by schizophrenia are not really medically understood either -- anyone's understanding, in the best sense of that word, is limited, then, and mediated in some ultimate and immediate sense by cultural mores and attitudes towards the condition. It goes without saying that those cultural attitudes have changed drastically over a brief span of years - at most fifteen or so, as opposed to the forty or so it took Pound scholars, for instance, to tune in to the extent of Pound's fascism and racism (Olson the one enormous, incredible exception). There is probably more continuity between, say, Breton's tribute to Artaud and Guattari's clinical practice for those diagnozed with schizophrenia (i.e. that their lives should be state supported, and moreover, that we can learn from them, as their lives represent a degree of freedom that we as a whole culture have lost / are afraid of / repress), than there is between Breton/Guattari and recent American/Canadian attitudes towards mental disability. Which is to say, in passing, that I too think it's important to hear the record from those who were actually friends of the poet, i.e., whose understanding / compassion extends beyond an interpretive claim (however politically astute) on the poetry and poet. (In my case, I did not know John Wieners personally, etc.) I'd like to end by posing this question of reception, this question of "learning from," as a literary-philosophical dilemma, however, using the example (raised by Tom Orange), of Antonin Artaud, and in particular, Derrida's reading of Artaud (The Secret Art of Antonin Artaud, trans. 1998 [orig. publ. 1986]). Derrida writes: It would certainly be disingenuous to close our eyes, either because of some literary feeling or some absentminded politeness, to what Artaud himself decribes as a neuropathological persecution. Moreover, that kind of disingenuousness would be insulting. The man is sick. But precisely, how much more naïve would it be *not* to acknowledge this truth: Artaud is telling the truth. (93) It might not be clear from simply quoting from one paragraph of this book that, for Derrida, "Artaud is telling the truth" not just about Artaud and no one else's social / philosophical / physical condition. To read Artaud's truth as specifically the truth about Artaud would be to provide, instead, I think, a scientized, hyper-individualized, specifically American reading of Artaud, in the best sense. For Derrida the philosopher, to understand, learn from, Artaud means to articulate the "warp" (in the space-time Einsteinian sense) of the logos as it accommodates Artaud's truth and the fact of Artaud -- the truth of truth itself. So Derrida continues: Through all the passion or the pathology to which his suffering submits him, his truth exhibits, *in his name*, the truth of the truth, that is to say that every "self" in its own self is called to this familial expropriation of the newly born, constituted, properly instructed by that expropriation, that imposture, that forfeit, at the moment when, very simply, a family declares a child born and gives it its name, in other words, takes it from him. (93-94) Artaud's persecution complex becomes here, a complex philosophical allegory for how any of us are imputed an individual by name, at the time of birth, etc. In short, however, what I think the example of Derrida points to is a certain productive limit of his own poetics of negation, in the manner in which a critique and practice based on negation comes to learn from and understand the negated, those in other words who are negated by cultural mores of "appreciation" or, its opposite violent face, rejection / outcasterdom / freak showiness. I'll just interrupt this here. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 17:02:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: content MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Patrick H. & others, You might be interested in Jennifer Moxley's essay, "'sphere of generality' / on content" that is forthcoming this summer in the first of two sequential issues of Open Letter magazine featuring "open letters" to/from poets (guest edited by Nicole Markotic and me). I asked her to write "on content" as it seemed that that was the very question she herself raised at the end of her second post to Third Factory, the notes on poetry series edited by Steve Evans at: http://www.umit.maine.edu/~steven.evans/3F-index.htm -louis ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:51:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: A Very Stupid Article I Came Across In-Reply-To: <3B4C69A2.11682.89369C@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I don't know, J. Gallaher. I'm heartbroken by this stupid article, because I agree with its basic gripe: American poetry has become disconnected from its readership. Poetry -- as all the arts in American culture -- is increasingly detached, self-examining, self-judging, etc etc. (yes, even in our anti-anti-anti-mainstream subba cultcha). However, it strikes me as ridiculous to blame Eliot and Pound and some kind of subsequent academic lineage for the gulf between Poetry and its readership. I blame the readers themselves just as much -- who aren't really reading at ALL anymore. And I blame mass media, marketing, and the entertainment industry, which have lowered people's expectations (not to mention their ability to interpret cultural objects), and therefore I must blame the free market at some point, though I am not a socialist either. And I am quite certain that so-called 'new formalism' is not the answer to these very fundamental problems! I can just imagine this scenario: "Mom, I'm not turning off VH1 for that crappy LANGUAGE poetry; it's too ivory tower. I'm not going to mute 'Survivor' for something as prosaic as DEEP IMAGE, mom. That stuff's either irrelevant or philosophically shallow, in my experience." "Okay honey, I brought you a book by Dana Gioia. It's real, it's heartfelt, and plus, it scans. And here's a Seamus Heaney for you too." "Mom, thanks! Now tell me -- who's our poet laureate? I'm interested, really I am." So yes, Michael Lind is full of shit; here's a better rant that I found on elimae.com -- + + + + + + + B. Renner "A Rant Against Contemporary American Verse" There is, of course, no telling what marvelous things might be going on in the unpublicized wilderness of American poetry: in the smallest of little magazines; in obscure online journals; in the bedrooms of living Emily Dickinsons, who may be writing without looking toward publication at all. On the other hand, what is going on among the recognized literati, in the American poetic mainstream, in the camps of the "dominant mode" is clear--American verse as generally practiced has reached a dead end. As American "plain speech" continually tightened its hold upon the various poetic communities in the '70's and '80's, vociferous that poetry speak in the language of the (apparently not very well educated) people, American poetry delivered exactly what it was calling for--"poetry" that, verbally, in virtually no way differed from the thousands of utterly tedious conversations all of us overhear or participate in all the time, and immediately forget. Or perhaps there is one difference--in the case of this poetry, we would mostly hope to forget it without having to hear it first. American verse became telegraphic (that is, shorter than prose), without being sinewy or muscular. It became Aesopic (that is, almost always ending with a pithy "life lesson"), without being in the least charming or humorous. And if I may misquote, at this end of the century, Ezra Pound writing from the other end of the century, this poetry ain't nearly as well written as prose. (Not that our prose is exactly stellar either--but that's another essay that needs to be composed by another writer.) Two groups, working sometimes as allies--the "new formalists" and the proponents of the "new narrative" (may I call them the new narrators?)--have suggested ways out of this cul-de-sac, but neither group seems to be interested in working hard enough to achieve its stated aims. The new narrators, for one thing, tend to write in the same old American plain speech as the reigning literati, with the distinction that they are narrating instead of philosophizing. But their "verse" displays none of the characteristics of verse which the plain speechers jettisoned--i.e. any sort of regular rhythm beyond the limp iambic which underlies most English language speech and writing; anything like a plottable (or verifiable) rhyme scheme; and any verbal conceit of the slightest complexity. Which means essentially that their stanzas can be rearranged as paragraphs with no loss. And what about their narratives as narratives? Well, the reader is unlikely to encounter any technique that can have been considered fresh or new at any point after the publication of The Waste Land or Ulysses, but might very well stumble across the kind of regional or dialectic ramble unseen since the death of James Whitcomb Riley. The new formalists, for all their perhaps well-meaning attentions, can't seem to scan! My God--you are forgiven for wondering--haven't these people read Yeats, or Frost, or even Richard Wilbur? Instead they seem content to block out lines that look roughly the same length on the page, throw down an occasional end-rhyme (whether it will be noticed by anything but the eye doesn't seem to matter), break out the thesaurus regularly, and end up in the same place as the plain speech boys--with a nice little "words to live by" finale worthy of Reader's Digest. from - http://www.elimae.com (in the archive) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 16:38:19 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ralph Wessman Subject: Re: request for questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Susan, A couple of thoughts, pretty general stuff. And do you recall the barrage = of emails on this list - August/September 97 - discussing little magazines?= Some gems in there, you might unearth some ideas. Ralph whether you see the magazine as essentially a magazine for readers, or for = contributors who do you see as your audience? what do you get out of publishing the magazine, personally? are you keeping your head above water financially? have you given consideration to technological changes, ie a simultaneous = net version? it's often said little magazines all seem to be doing much the same = things, prisoners of their circumstances * I suspect you'd say tinfish = differs in its innovation and in its regionality - true? others suggest that many magazines are edited eclectically, without due = aesthetical considerations on the part of their editors. not true, in the = case of tinfish? why? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:55:50 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christina Milletti Subject: new novel from Mammoth Books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, Mammoth Books would like to announce the release of Dimitri Anastasopoulos's first novel, *A Larger Sense of Harvey*, now available at SPDbooks online (www.spdbooks.org). *A Larger Sense* will be featured in SPD's "Get Lit" program in September. But feel free to "get lit" now. From the Catalog: *A Larger Sense of Harvey* is an experimental novel about language, love and identity, set in several East European locales---from the Greek islands to Helsinki, from Minsk to a research facility in Lapland. As the reader learns more about the love/hate relationships that anchor the plot, it slowly becomes clear that *A Larger Sense* is in fact one story nested within another. Though the novel emerges as a compilation of Harvey's journals, the reader inevitably come to realize that the journals are actually in the process of being translated by the narrator Ambrose. As a result, Harvey's story becomes skewed, and eventually the translations are pit against the authentic story, which is revealed despite Ambrose's attempts to suppress it. The question of translation---in particular, of botched or tortured translation---looms large in *A Larger Sense* and results in both hilarious and gently philosophical moments as the author goes on to consider the nature of sex, language, and male friendship, in a novel that makes its space between crafty metafiction and the Eastern European epic, always with an eye for language. Novelist Paul West examines a chapter from *A Larger Sense of Harvey* in his new book Master Class (now available from Harcourt). He writes: "Anastasopoulos excels at parallel writing-his novel fascinates as it amasses not so much action as the verbal history of his plot, which he celebrates by recalling its other plots (Minsk while roaming Helsinki) allowing all visible cities to become in part invisible. He alters everything as he goes, making the cities more real by relating them to some intellectual mainstream: the alien's, the word expert's, the erotic worrier." Dimitri Anastasopoulos was born in Athens, Greece. He received his MFA at Pennsylvania State University and a Ph.D. at SUNY-Albany. Anastasopoulos has published fiction, essays and reviews most recently in the Black Warrior Review, Callaloo, Willow Springs, and the American Book Review. He has won an AWP Intro Award for Short Fiction. At present, he is a Visiting Assistant Professor of Creative Writing at the University of Rochester where he teaches Fiction Workshops, Hypermedia Writing and Cyberculture, and courses in the Avant-Garde Novel. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:07:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: cd warehouse! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - cd warehouse! there are 5 cdroms so far that will be available: Archive 3.8 is the latest incarnation of collected work 1994-2002 Baal contains collaborative work with Foofwa and Azure Parables is based on Nikuko parables with Foofwa and Azure Miami is sound text and videowork with Azure Asteroids are three dimensional modeling videoworks Archive 3.8 contains sound text html image program and video files Baal is based on sexuality ballet language and body Parables is a series of short videos and a text Miami is sexy vacant and intense Asteroids is based on body segments and flyovers Archive 3.8 is a group of directories and an index webpage Baal has full nudity and the marking of bodies Parables has small intense dance segments with some effects Miami presents Susan Graham lying in the sun Asteroids are slowly moving bodies with wide-angle lenses Archive 3.8 has thousands of pages of text Baal deconstructs fucking ballet and voyeurism Parables tells anecdotes opening to forests and ponds Miami is vacuous reaching out to the viewer Asteroids turn in total silence of outer space Archive 3.8 has graphics from mathematics programming Baal has Foofwa running in a room Parables is produced in nineteen-degree F weather Miami has guitar solos modified by Chris Keep Asteroids was produced with the Blender modeling program Archive 3.8 contains over six-hundred images Baal has nudity with Foofwa dancing in the background Parables emphasizes meditation and intensity Miami runs with the answers of Susan Graham Asteroids were made on a desktop in Brooklyn Archive 3.8 has sound recorded in Atlanta Baal was created at the Experimental Television Center Parables were shot in New York City and Owego Miami was shot in Pennsylvania and London Ontario Asteroids were inspired by NASA's Eros investigation Archive 3.8 has everything in my world Baal was edited in Owego and New York City Parables was edited with Adobe Premier Miami has images from the balcony of Ryan and Zena Asteroids take a moment to see what's really going on Archive 3.8 is a kind of archaeology Baal is so evident one might miss the point Parables presents stunning choreography by Foofwa Miami is nude and semi-nude and trembling Asteroids are amazing animations quickly produced _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:04:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: request for questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Susan Webster Schultz wrote: > If you were going to a talk about such a journal, what questions would you want answered? Dollar signs. Financial information. Physical particulars of printing, distribution. Historical materialism. This is the most obfuscated side of independent publishing. If the information were more readily available, there would be more publishing. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:59:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: snacks at readings [Jordan Davis: POETASTER] Comments: To: Jordan Davis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jordan Davis wrote: and that, my friend, is the snack combo poetry readings call out for! . . . some cut-above-rotgut and a slab of cheddar or a gooey squiggle of brie? . . .Oh, we offered baby carrots, . . . Remember, until you get about forty dollars' worth of cheese, it's not a poetry reading -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Jor',--- I love these Americans (don't you, Nikuko?): they're so fast at informalities. "(m)y friend" . . . , the male writes! What an endearing young poet ("ephebe," per Wallace Stevens). As though we were frockcoated shoulder-to-shoulder in one of these mysterious XIXth cent. daguerrotypes (see recent International Center of Photography "Dear Friends: American Photographs of Men Together, 1840-1918": http://www.icp.org/exhibitions/index.html or http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0116/aletti.shtml), inexplicably comfortable together sitting resting Guildenstern leg across Rosenkranz knee (sp.?), R. hand lightly resting on G. knee, bowties. We may have to part with that six dollars after all! for nice young man's new ~Yeah, No~ book (depriving Jennifer of milk money, her sipping at Nikuko paps), counting out half dozen dollars bill by bill, half a dozen inches each in length those dollars, smoothing them flat with palm of hand, as if to ready for money-ingesting snack-dispensary machines that reject crumply dollars, to go to United States Post Office shady street to get money order for ~Yeah, No,~ saving carbon paper--- EDITORS: Please consider adding Food Column to literary journals! reviewing "wine-&-cheese" at poetry readings. "Baby" carrots, you say, 'dan Dav'? Julu ----------------------------------------------------------------- "OGNIBEN: Ay, had the young David but sat first to dine on his cheeses with the Philistine, he had soon discovered an abundance of such common sympathies. . . . David slung the stone, cut off the giant's head, made a spoil of it, and after ate his cheeses alone, with the better appetite, for all I can learn. My friend, . . ." --- Robert Browning, "A SOUL'S TRAGEDY. ACT FIRST, BEING WHAT WAS CALLED THE POETRY OF CHIAPPINO'S LIFE: AND ACT SECOND, ITS PROSE," Act II ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:45:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Kubie Subject: Fwd: PUB: looking for experimental poetry (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:40:58 -0400 From: Reginald Harris To: cave_canem@egroups.com, artstour2000@yahoogroups.com, rkubie@epfl.net Subject: Fwd: PUB: looking for experimental poetry >From: Kalamu ya Salaam >Reply-To: kalamu@aol.com >To: e-drum@topica.com >Subject: PUB: looking for experimental poetry >Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 02:37:15 EDT > >============================================================ >Half.com is the Smartest Place to Buy & Sell your CDs, DVDs >Books, & Games! Get killer deals on over 10 million items >priced up to 50-90% off. Plus get $5 off your 1st purchase. >http://click.topica.com/caaacv1bUrD3obVAjt2a/half >============================================================ > > >>PUB: looking for experimental poetry >============================== > >4th INTERNATIONAL MEETING OF VISUAL, SOUND AND EXPERIMENTAL POETRY > >INTERNATIONAL CALL > >VORTICE ARGENTINA ASKS ROUND TO PARTICIPATE IN THE 4th INTERNATIONAL >MEETING > >OF VISUAL, SOUND AND EXPERIMENTAL POETRY. CALLING FOR WORKS AND >PROJECTS IN ALL > >FORMATS: PAPER, OBJECTS, VIDEOS, ACTIONS, PERFORMANCES, AUDIOVISUALS, >AUDIO TAPES, CDs,VIDEO, ETC. > >FREE THEME AND TECHNIQUES. NO TRADITIONALS POEMS. > >ARTWORKS WON'T BE GIVEN BACK TO THE ARTISTS; THESE WILL BE PART OF >VORTICE > >ARGENTINA > >ARCHIVE. DOCUMENTATION TO ALL PARTICIPANTS AFTER THE PROJECT FINISHES. > >WORKS & PROJECTS' RECEPTION DEADLINE: JULY 30, 2001. EXHIBITION: >PLACE & > >DATE TO BE CONFIRMED. > >SEND WORKS AND PROJECTS TO: > >VORTICE ARGENTINA - 4th Visual Poetry Meeting > >BACACAY 3103, BUENOS AIRES C1406GEE, ARGENTINA > >EMAIL: mailart@vorticeargentina.com.ar > >WEBSITE: www.vorticeargentina.com.ar > > > >ANYONE INTERESTED IN CARRYING OUT AN ACTION, PERFORMANCE OR OTHER >ASSORTED > >PROJECTS, PLEASE SEND E-MAIL IN ORDER TO COORDINATE THE EVENT. > >############################################# >this is e-drum, a listserv providing information of interests to black >writers and diverse supporters worldwide. e-drum is moderated by kalamu ya >salaam (kalamu@aol.com). >---------------------------------- >to subscribe to e-drum send a blank email to: >e-drum-subscribe@topica.com >--------------------------------------------- >to get off the e-drum listserv send a blank email to: >e-drum-unsubscribe@topica.com >---------------------------------------------- >to read past messages or search the archives, go to: >http://www.topica.com/lists/e-drum > >==^================================================================ >EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bUrD3o.bVAjt2 >Or send an email To: e-drum-unsubscribe@topica.com >This email was sent to: rmharris2001@hotmail.com > >T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! >http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register >==^================================================================ > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 20:48:40 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ammonides@AOL.COM Subject: Axiologies of madness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It=E2=80=99s possible that I=E2=80=99m missing something in the argument, bu= t I=E2=80=99m not sure I=20 see why Barrett Watten believes that Hannah Weiner=E2=80=99s work constitute= s a kind=20 of special "axiological" challenge. After all, one could make a long list of= =20 poets whose poetics are inseparable from acute forms of "mental illness," an= d=20 a nearly endless list of poets whose work is impacted, if not driven, by les= s=20 "spectacular" versions of neurosis: In the first group, Smart, Clare, Blake,= =20 Rimbaud, Baudelaire, George, Trakl, Artaud, Sexton, Plath, Roethke, Lowell,=20 Kaufman, arguably Spicer, and in the second group, Dickinson, Pound, Eliot,=20 Khlebnikov, Pessoa, Crane, Dylan Thomas, Michaux, Bishop, Celan, Ritsos,=20 Finlay, Olson, Duncan, Tanikawa Shuntaro, Wieners, Ginsberg, Eshleman, bp=20 Nichol, but I am pretty much drawing rapidly here, and one could go on and=20 on. If Weiner constitutes a "problem" in terms of aesthetic/poetic value, wh= y=20 don=E2=80=99t these other poets, too?=20 Furthermore, and more broadly, perhaps, there possibly seems to be a bit of=20 "logocentrising", if that=E2=80=99s a term, at work in this proposal of schi= zophrenia=20 as some kind of special region beyond "normal" evaluative criteria. For=20 instance, if schizophrenia is a scientifically-explainable illness, and its=20 symptoms, at bottom, the result of chemical imbalances and neurological=20 misfirings, why should the poetry produced under its impacts pose any more o= f=20 an "aesthetic-ontological problem" for "normal people" than any poetry=20 produced under the impact of brain chemistry-altering substances, which may=20 be half the poetry produced in the world since the Sumerians invented beer,=20 in fact. Take Spicer, for example. (And it can=E2=80=99t really be said that= , well,=20 you consume drugs and alcohol by choice, but mental illness is not a choice.= =20 Again, take Spicer as example.) I=E2=80=99m posing these questions because the general topic is very interes= ting. And=20 I thought Barrett Watten=E2=80=99s posts on Weiner were insightful and actua= lly quite=20 moving. But I=E2=80=99m still not sure I see the "problem=E2=80=99, as I=E2= =80=99ve said. And not to=20 be overly negative, but I think (and particularly in the sensitive area we=20 are dealing with) that we need to be careful that an artificial poetic=20 "problem" not be created under the force of the bigger hive-mind neurosis of= =20 academic criticism. I=E2=80=99m not saying that it is in this case, just tha= t we need=20 to be careful. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:53:01 -0500 Reply-To: archambeau@hermes.lfc.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Archambeau Organization: Lake Forest College Subject: Re: re anti anti anti laureate MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Okay. Replication and parody are distinct. The ability to recognize the difference (through such signifiers as the overtly arbitrary exclusion criteria, the invention of clearly artifica titles, people and organizations, etc) is, of course, not guaranteed. To envy something doesn't neccesarily involve wanting to -be- it. Well. Enjoy soaking the towel. B peter culley wrote: > "Envy", in the sense I scare quoted it, is a term that those with power use to neutralise the criticisms of those with less power. And what, exactly, is "literary envy" except a version of this? As a west coast Canadian I have reflexively dissed the Toronto literary scene all my life--does that mean I secretly want to be a part of it? That's ridiculous. > > My exasperation with much of the stamp, prize and laureate postings was that neither their light dusting of alternativity nor forced whimsy failed to disguise their replication of the mindset and values they purported to critique. The unreflective and undifferentiated use of such terms as envy and rank and file confirms this. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:15:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Just Buffalo: Executive Director Job Opening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I noticed this announcement on another listserv; possibly of interest here. Christopher W. Alexander poetics list moderator -- POSITION ANNOUNCEMENT/ADVERTISEMENT Executive Director, just buffalo literary center, inc. Located in Buffalo, NY, just buffalo is a private, not-for-profit center dedicated to the support of the writing arts. The Center is nationally recognized for its excellence in mainstage programming, its support of writers, and its educational programming. We seek an individual who will continue a tradition of excellence, a person with artistic vision and strong management skills to provide leadership for all aspects of daily operations and long-range planning. Responsible for programming, budget and fiscal operations, fundraising, grants, records and reports, and community outreach. Works closely with Board of Directors and its standing committees and supervises staff. Qualifications: MA degree in Arts Management or BA with professional experience equivalent to a graduate degree. Experience in arts management or in related not-for-profit management. Familiar with the contemporary arts scene, demonstrated understanding of and support for cultural, community, and artistic diversity as well as a commitment to and understanding of related educational programs. Track record in fundraising, grants, and community engagement through arts activities. Strength in interpersonal relations, leadership, and decision making. We seek applications from an inclusive and diverse pool of candidates. Submit a letter of interest, resume, the names, addresses, and phone numbers of three references and any other pertinent materials to just buffalo search, c/o Arts Council in Buffalo & Erie County, 700 Main Street, Buffalo, NY 14202-1962. Review of applications begins August 1, 2001. Position will remain open until filled. -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:33:12 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: re anti anti anti laureate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >"Envy", in the sense I scare quoted it, is a term that those with power use >to neutralise the criticisms of those with less power. That may be, but can you explain how, in this thread, it was used in that way? (E.g., WHICH person with power used it, WHAT criticisms were neutralized, etc). >My exasperation with much of the stamp, prize and laureate postings was >that neither their light dusting of alternativity nor forced whimsy failed >to disguise their replication of the mindset and values they purported to >critique. The unreflective and undifferentiated use of such terms as envy >and rank and file confirms this. How so? Your last sentence, in particular, mystifies me. Could you please explain? Mark DuCharme _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:26:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: content MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Louis, Can you post info on Open Letter? I either missed it or am lazy or both. Content is somewhat of a paradox I would think as reading poetry and writing poetry is often a way of avoiding 'content' I'm curious about what Jennifer has to say on this. tom bell ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:58:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think US Cultrue is schizophrenogenic (leading to or causing schizophrenia or schizophrenic-like behavior). One of the difficulties in reading about Sylvia Plath is cultural in that she was 'diagnosed' by critics 50 years ago based on notions of mental conditions prevalent then. She was also diagnosed by clinicians accordings to practice then. Things have changed tom ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:27:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: Hannah's visions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I seem to be waking up to this discussion quite late and reading notes backwards chronologically, so I'm not singling you out at all, Elizabeth. I just want to throw sparks out as they come up. It strikes me though that it is crucial for any understanding of 'mental illness' from a practitioner (poet, writer, artist here -- not medical practitioner)'s perspective that that understanding be based on real life and contemporary medical understanding and practice, [BTW, I am getting somewhat wound up as I write which might or might not be good] rather than arcane textbooks and critical pieces which by their nature are several levels of about removed from reality. I would suggest a careful reading of _Beyond Bedlam_ - http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/thought1.htm for a brief review - might be a place to start along with a sympathetic perusal of the latest DSM. [as I read on I will probably apologize but I'll save that for later after dinner] tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Treadwell" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 8:03 PM Subject: Hannah's visions > Hi just reading the archive and of course this is the thread that caught my > eye. Camille has told me about her project looking at neurology and poetry > and I remain tremendously excited about it. This discussion is interesting > and I wanted to add a few things -- first, Jeffrey, dear, I have to say your > attitude in your initial response to Camille is really one of the reasons I > do not feel comfortable on this list. Maybe she is "tougher" than me, being > in a PhD program and all, but look at her post -- it was open. Yours seems > bossy and condescending. Anyway we are friends off list Jeffrey, in a > correspondent sense, so please don't let this disturb you too much. I just > have to say it as I nervously reenter this particular fray. UGH. > > I'm so glad to see inserted in this thread the announcement of a conference > on definitions of normalcy. As Camille says, we can look from "our" point of > view and find instances of "schizophrenia" in all cultures; this doesn't > surprise me, we all have brains. The way it is understood in other cultures > and languages is key however. Of course, as Laurie (I think?) writes, in > ours it is not too easy to be that way. And then as if to make up for it we > valorize it in special, "nifty" cases, such as Weiner, Van Gogh etc. Which > also climbs in to bed with the weird ways we deal with artists in this > culture. And in to bed with the weird ways we deal with women in this > culture. (I for one do not think Stein or Woolf were crazy at all. Maybe > irritated.) But in other frameworks are other histories and possibilities. > Including the framework of psychiatric wards, which we really ought to fund > in this country. > > Joan of Arc worked it. A Native psychiatrist I heard speak once said in his > tribe (it was years ago and I unfortunately forget which one)'s > language/understanding "schizophrenia" would translate to "visionary". No > doubt such semantic differences would also be reflected in the treatment, > care, and respect accorded such folks. > > Well, maybe that's all from me. > > Is the bird that pecks at itself in my car's sideview mirror nuts? > > x > Elizabeth > ___________________________________________ > > Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine > http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy > ___________________________________________ > > Elizabeth Treadwell > http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page2.html > ___________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 18:19:23 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Julie Kizershot Subject: Re: San Diego possibility Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I might be interested but how much would the rent be approx.?? thanks ---------- >From: Stephen Cope >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: San Diego possibility >Date: Wed, Jul 11, 2001, 9:00 PM > > Hello all, > > I'm looking for someone who might be in the San Diego area ca. July > 24-August 16 to sublet a one bedroom apt., with rent a negotiable (if > not altogether negligible) issue. Perks include easy access to the > UCSD's archive, beaches, the zoo, Seaworld, etc. The catch: a cat who > needs to be fed, let outside/inside etc. > > If anyone is planning a trip, or needs a nice vacation, or knows > someone who is/needs either, please backchannel or call when > convenient. > > > > All best! > > Stephen Cope > scope@ucsd.edu > (619) 298-8761 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:36:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: Hannah's visions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am wondering why there is a need to define a specific aspect of life (the content of poetry) here and segregate it from 'normalcy' It is a fact of human existence and if Hannah choose to deal with her existence poetically I think that should be honored as such. If you talk to an artist with visual problems that lead to a 'new' of painting reality, the artist knows full well what in his or her process came from the 'vision' and what was really there and the work produced can be appreciated with or without knowing the means of production. A rose by Gertrude Stein is a rose by Georgia O'Keefe is a rose by Jackson Pollock is a rose. The difficulty arises (as it has in history) when any artistic view of reality is seen as not normal and the poets are all banished. tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Orange" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 11:53 AM Subject: Re: Hannah's visions > hello all, > > barrett's initial response to the question of hannah weiner's visions > seems in part, if i'm reading him right, to be looking for a way of > reading her that avoids falling into common literary tropes such as the > schizoid subject (as i think jeffrey jullich suggested) or writing the > body. breton's automatism is certainly a useful point of reference, tho I > think of artaud as well. artaud's letters to jacques riviere and early > writings like _le pese-nerfs_ and _l'ombillic des limbes_ seem to > articulate an acute awareness of a body and mind under siege and worked > out in and through writing, perhaps as acute as weiner manifests in _the > fast_. (the zaum-like language that appears in _ci-git_ and the late > journals of artaud then might be seen as analogues to weiner's > clairvoyant works. not really a great analogy, just a thought.) > > but perhaps a way of reading weiner's work -- and this is precisely what > barrett suggests when he says that one way to go would be to "acknowledge > that the words that came were 'symptoms' of an underlying illness and then > decide on the relation of that condition to their literary value" -- this > would be to read hannah less in terms of etiology, what causes her > visions -- tho this is indeed fascinating, and i've always wondered if > there were signs of her clairvoyance in the 1960s prior to her use of > hallucinogenics and her writing of _the fast_ -- and more in terms of > symptomatology. > > deleuze has suggested (in his monograph on sade and masoch and elsewhere), > that a symptomatological reading would see the text not as the > manifestation or product of illness or visions but more as a study in the > various symptoms produced by a mode of existence. so sade for example is > not a patient whose texts show symptoms from which the reader can then > deduce an illness as cause; his texts are not products of an author who > suffers from an illness or condition subsequently named after him. > > rather, sade is a clinician who carefully catalogs and distinguishes > symptoms that together amount to a mode of existence. this means not the > advocacy of a life of orgy, torture and murder but a sustained use of the > tools of instrumental reason to critique reason itself, to show how the > most irrational activity can be rendered systematic and rationalized. > > what amazes me about _the fast_ is its very lucid and detailed > differentiating and cataloguing of signs and symptoms. for example metal > is associated with the color purple and the sensation of pain, hence > hannah has to avoid taking showers in the metal shower and using metal > spoons and knives. wooden spoons pressed against her eyes absorb the > purple, but she soon discovers that water is a more effective way of > neutralizing the purple. also the color blue has no pain and offsets > the effects of purple, and tap water from the kitchen sink which she > collects in small glasses and pours onto her arms or legs to get rid of > the purple. > > so there is a very clear method here of organizing signs as symptoms, > grouping them together, and working through various ways of in a sense > treating the very signs and symptoms she has read and diagnosed. > > where this symptomatological reading can takes us (or where i think where > deleuze would take it), is less along the lines of the "literary" value of > hannah's work as barrett has posed it, and more in terms of its value for > life. i think richard tyler is getting at this when he asks "to what > extent is poetry realy a productive thing," as is jeffrey when he > suggests that > > Weiner's success could be very valuable in the empowerment or > treatment of the similarly diagnosed, and the consciousness > raising of the self-styled 'normal'....in a sense you ~cannot~ be > schizophrenic in America. > > there's a wonderful moment towards the end of _the fast_, just before the > police arrive, where weiner writes that > > I could feel the energy moving up my head, up the blocked channel > by the ear and I thought, oh great, I'm finally going to get that > blood vessel or nerve or whatever opened up and I'm going to be > able to hear, for as much as I could see, I could never hear, and > I was just beginning to hear a voice and I thought, great, > communication will be so much easier. (41) > > right, so this is a discovery, a breakthrough in terms of how weiner is > able to deal with her condition: open up to the voices, facilitate > the communication, and perhaps ultimately stay off yr meds if need be. > > but of course society exacts a heavy price for this kind of decision. > > -- tom orange ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 23:25:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: brom In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >yo bow wow! yo borm! you sexy devils. who is this "wide > cecilia" anyway. > >keep the aspidistra flying, me lads. md > > > >At 4:35 PM -0700 7/9/01, George Bowering wrote: > >>Had lunch with David bromige and wide cecilia and my daughter Thea > >>and Mike Matthews, our co-author today, and though Dave is a little > >>slow, especially in walking (a lot of that due to hius terrible > > >feet), he seemed to keep up ,mentally. > > >-- > > > Yikes, that was supposed to be wife Cecilia. Hope she doesnt see > this. I am going to diner with them in an hour or 2. > -- > George Bowering > Fax 604-266-9000 > & now you're taking wide Cecilia to a diner? shame on you, george! pierre ________________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris Just out from Wesleyan UP: 6 Madison Place Albany NY 12202 POASIS: Selected Poems 1986-1999 Tel: (518) 426-0433 Fax: (518) 426-3722 go to: http://www.albany.edu/~joris/poasis.htm Email: joris@ albany.edu Url: ____________________________________________________________________________ _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 01:18:05 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: Hannah's visions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lucy you are so quite right they went nuts they were irritated irritated women are always nuts according to the power standards ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 21:54:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: Hannah's visions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit since this discussion seems to be tossing about medications and diagnoses as to whether these visions might stem from a bipolar diathesis which is clinically quite distinct from any schizophrenic tinge. clinically clients with bipolar difficulties are much more likely to find medications distasteful and hateful than those with 'thought disorders'. It is likely that the 'problem' is a combination of the two pathologies (and I use the clinical term here intentionally). I feel that this is something that is very much hannah's business, but as it has been bantered about it would seem appropriate that the banter was accurate. I am by the way not putting anyone down specifically here. tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maria Damon" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 8:26 AM Subject: Re: Hannah's visions > barrett, was hannah "happier" when she was on medication or was the relief > from symptoms a welcome one, other than the disappointment of not seeing > words? if not, what would have been or was her motivation for taking meds? > from your comments i gather that she went back and forth, on and off meds, > or tried them and then decided permanently against? i know robt lowell > used to go off lithium occasionally --not because doing so enhanced his > writing but because he couldn't mix it w/ alcohol --and he wanted to be > able to drink. a different situation, i realize. > > i think of hannah's writing as both insdier and outsider writing, ecriture > brute and also v. literary. a great test case for all kinds of limits and > categories. but a lot of "naive" writers or "ecrivains bruts" are v > self-conscious of themselves as poets --like the girls i taught in south > boston --tho this comes as a surprise and sometimes an affront to the MFA > crowd. > > At 2:35 PM -0400 7/6/01, Barrett Watten wrote: > >Hannah's visions, under the "I see words" rubric, were literally > >hallucinations. She would see words and type what she saw. There was a > >specific onset of this condition (when? how?), and I remember speaking with > >her about how the words tended go away with medication. This may have been > >an incentive not to medicate--so there was a tradeoff between the downside > >of "symptoms" and feeling emotionally upbeat about getting a lot of writing > >done--by hallucination. > > > >It seems that one could go one of two directions here. Acknowledge that the > >words that came were "symptoms" of an underlying illness and then decide on > >the relation of that condition to their literary value, or suspend that > >decision--no matter what produced them, they were re-presented in literary > >form and hence a part of "shaping" sensibility, possessing form and > >intention. Certainly her work with "codes" in the 60s influenced her sense > >of the value of these phenomena. > > > >It's not a simple either/or question, but not asking it, I think, gets a > >lot simpler result in terms of reading or responding to Hannah's work and > >self-presentation. Is she in a special "category of one" as a writer who > >sees the words that she writes? Should a book about Hannah Weiner be > >classified under "disability studies," "neurology," "psychology," in > >addition to poetry? To what extent does the psychobiology of her writing > >practice challenge the literariness of her work? > > > >When we think of the various automatisms that have been put forward as an > >answer to reason in 20th-century poetry, do we have to qualify these > >phenomena in terms of some kind of self-conscious method in order for them > >to be "literary"? What is the status of Hannah's "literal" transcription of > >automatism vs. what Breton wanted from it? Would Breton have approved of > >Hannah's work? Is her work more akin to "art brut," an "outsider" art that > >needs the recognition of a museum or collector (or archive!) to validate it? > > > >In beginning to think about these things, I'd suggest it's important that > >there was a conflict in the nature of intentionality in Hannah's work, at > >the very least--medicate and stop hallucinations, cease medication and > >hallucinate. How to think about the nature of such a decision? > > > >BW ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 23:33:08 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Axiologies of madness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ammonides and List Folks. I agree mostly with the drift of this. I concentrated on an earlier post I sent on an attempt at looking at Wiener's work itself (albeit briefly), but it would be difficult to me to see her as any different as an artist or writer than eg Barrett Watten himself or anyone else of the "Language" school, or indeed of any other writer/artist.. Its the problem or problematic of whether or to what extent the writer's personality experience etc enters their work. On first "encountering" Ashbery's work and even my first reading of Faulkner I felt that I was entering a strange, sometimes nightmarish "world", but the question of the personality etc of those writers had no significance at that time. The question is also: how would I/we be respond(ing) to Wiener (or say Pessoa) if we didnt know (eg in Pessoa's case the near bizarre "reality"? or legend of his life and multiple (could be said by some schizophrenic whatever that is) personalities and narration.?) Even the project outlined somewhat by Charles Bernstein etc of a non-monoligic non -logocentric multi-disciplinary and or absorptive or anti absorptive work which to a greater or lessser degree distances or even (at least in theory) "deaths" the author can become or seem to be nearly bizzarre.I not saying it is: I'm suggesting that taken to certain "lengths" it may seem to seem to be so. I think it would be bad news to see Wieners as a "special case" ..it seems according to a post of one(some)otther(s) to the list that many have reported this "visionary" aspect...I've "heard voices" and occasionally in half dreams It seemed that a "voice" was dictating a poem but I feel fairly certain that those voices (mysterious as the mind / body/ brain is) were not madness or "genius" but something fairly "normal". Obviously Wieners was or had a very vivid immagination or eidetic ability: as many Chess ("high level") players do (eg Ortvin Sarapu who was the NZ Chess Champion many times told me one day of how he had a photographic memory for chess positions: and I saw him play "blindfold" but he worked "just as only" a storeman/labourer and was a very "feet on the ground" and likeable person with no apparent "insanity). This kind of ability combined with acute emotional distress (often in life a very "natural" thing) or joy may lead to a kind of creative sparking: but that doesnt always necessitate a special case or a "problem". It is a facinating and sensitive area and leads directly into questions of what is and how operates the creative being or person: literally in fact to questions of how and why we you me they write (or dont) and to what extent our "woundedness" or suffering is NOT just a Romantic (or it is a positive in a more complex view of Romanticism taken onto our own times) delusion and maybe a necessity for creativity....one hopes that suffering is not the whole deal (it rarely is) but I can see or sense in such as Wieners Spicer and many of those two groups mentioned generative and generating emotional and psychological charge inside or "behind" their works, and we also know of Spicers and eg Beryyman's alcholoism (his father having committed suicide and I think he witnessed that), Celan's torment (his parents having been killed by the Nazis), Roethke extreme sensitivity (and hence his very beautiful work), Lowell's "madness" and his (over?) honesty, Plath's obsession with death, Trakl's with all sorts of things and the effect of being powerless amongst the wounded in the first world war and unable to help and other "torments" in his mind, Eliot's nueroses, Pound's "insane" anti-semitism etc but his very sensitive evocation or "criticism" of the waste of life and things in WWI in "Hugh Selwyn Mauberly", Bishops haunting story of the village with a scream and her "Crusoe" poem.....the list as you say is endless. It seems strange and almost too cold to put Wieners under a special magnifying glass...it is important tread carefully here. Perhaps great poetry is always created somwhat from the energising force of suffering but I hope also that it is also from joie de vive. I dont think we should avoid discussing Wieners work etal but certainly the "logocentrising" is or could be a danger: "ah, here's Wieners" but poet X is over here he/she was a sane poet. No. There are no such simple divisions. To lighten up: there's the old joke: "I'm normal, I know this, because every other bastard around me's insane." ! This I hope is an interesting "question" we are talking about here. Regards, Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 12:48 PM Subject: Axiologies of madness It’s possible that I’m missing something in the argument, but I’m not sure I see why Barrett Watten believes that Hannah Weiner’s work constitutes a kind of special "axiological" challenge. After all, one could make a long list of poets whose poetics are inseparable from acute forms of "mental illness," and a nearly endless list of poets whose work is impacted, if not driven, by less "spectacular" versions of neurosis: In the first group, Smart, Clare, Blake, Rimbaud, Baudelaire, George, Trakl, Artaud, Sexton, Plath, Roethke, Lowell, Kaufman, arguably Spicer, and in the second group, Dickinson, Pound, Eliot, Khlebnikov, Pessoa, Crane, Dylan Thomas, Michaux, Bishop, Celan, Ritsos, Finlay, Olson, Duncan, Tanikawa Shuntaro, Wieners, Ginsberg, Eshleman, bp Nichol, but I am pretty much drawing rapidly here, and one could go on and on. If Weiner constitutes a "problem" in terms of aesthetic/poetic value, why don’t these other poets, too? Furthermore, and more broadly, perhaps, there possibly seems to be a bit of "logocentrising", if that’s a term, at work in this proposal of schizophrenia as some kind of special region beyond "normal" evaluative criteria. For instance, if schizophrenia is a scientifically-explainable illness, and its symptoms, at bottom, the result of chemical imbalances and neurological misfirings, why should the poetry produced under its impacts pose any more of an "aesthetic-ontological problem" for "normal people" than any poetry produced under the impact of brain chemistry-altering substances, which may be half the poetry produced in the world since the Sumerians invented beer, in fact. Take Spicer, for example. (And it can’t really be said that, well, you consume drugs and alcohol by choice, but mental illness is not a choice. Again, take Spicer as example.) I’m posing these questions because the general topic is very interesting. And I thought Barrett Watten’s posts on Weiner were insightful and actually quite moving. But I’m still not sure I see the "problem’, as I’ve said. And not to be overly negative, but I think (and particularly in the sensitive area we are dealing with) that we need to be careful that an artificial poetic "problem" not be created under the force of the bigger hive-mind neurosis of academic criticism. I’m not saying that it is in this case, just that we need to be careful. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 20:58:28 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick herron Subject: Re: Axiologies of madness In-Reply-To: <3a.17a34062.287f9f68@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi -=20 I'm not clear where either you or Barrett are going with this thread. = You are right in that mental illness of any sort provides no special = challenge to poetics, unless of course we are to reduce poetics to = comparative neurology (ugh). Science explains very little to me; I = perceive science as a way for people force perceptions into the = seemingly artificial boundaries of words and language. Sometimes = science merely provides a privileged way of separating people from their = money. =20 Manic depressives (myself included) have for a long time flocked to = poetry like flies to dung. No big deal. Manic depressives are more = likely to understand the extremes of life (think drama, think mood = swings) than more evenly-keeled folks. The creative output of a person = with mania is only rarely matched by "healthier folks" in terms of = volume and/or concentration. But then the price is, we manics tend to = "off" ourselves more frequently than others. =20 We manic depressives aren't very good at holding day jobs or keeping at = this or that. Our endurance at tasks (like relationships, degree = programs, residences, and so on) is minimal and subject to wild swings. = It's nothing to be envied, believe me. For every successful manic = depressive there's a failed one, one institutionalized one, and one dead = one.=20 Occasionally a poet realizes that being mentally ill might make them a = better poet, etc. Anne Sexton spent her life in envy of fellow Boston = socialite Sylvia Plath. Sexton even articulated her envy of Plath's = illness on several occasions. Sexton eventually killed herself. It's = obviously not an attractive path. Mania shares a fuzzy border with schizophrenia and people suffering full = blown manic states are easily mistaken for paranoid schizophrenics. = Even in my extended hypomanic states (which are often a pleasure for me = but certainly a pain for all of those around me) I suffer radically = racing thoughts that are seemingly quite rational but they travel so = fast that I end up exhausting myself without moving a single bone. Then = the bottom appears and all feels lost, and everything feels like I am = trapped in some cruel cycle of the universe, and that there is only one = escape: the shuffling off of the mortal coil. The poetry gets tangled = up in the process. These racing thoughts are often revelatory but more = frequently destructive, usually because they are simply extraordinarily = "other." =20 I am also quite wary of the term "illness," as in such mental = "illnesses" there is usually no evidence of neurological damage. The = pathology is diagnosed not in terms of necrosis or lesions or wounds or = infections or tumors, but in terms of generalized difference. Weiner = was probably attracted to Julian Jaynes' _Origin of Consciousness..._ = partially because Jaynes claims in the book that, once upon a time, = everyone heard voices. Jaynes suggests that in, say, Plato's day, = nearly _everyone_ was a paranoid schizophrenic. Humans in 500 BC were = usually taking orders from these voices that they could not claim were = their own. "Hearing voices," Jaynes claims, was once the norm and = civilization flourished. =20 I know that if my social pressures were more and more adaptive to my own = cycles of ebb and flow, I would have no problems in "getting along." = The illness is an "illness" in part because it simply makes one person = different from the perhaps mythological "normal guy" archetype. But = there's no fever or bleeding or tumor or anything like that in most = cases of mental illness. If you are fascinated by the intersection of neuropathology and poetry, = I recommend Kay Redfield Jamison's _Touched with Fire_. I also = recommend Jaynes' _The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the = Bicameral Mind_ as well. It is a wonderfully fascinating and = speculative read. Much of my own poetics stems from a synthesis of = Jaynes' book with Walter Ong's _Orality and Literacy_. The books, when = though of together, reveal much about language, text, authority and = thought itself. Best, Patrick "certifiable" Herron > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of = Ammonides@AOL.COM > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 8:49 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Axiologies of madness >=20 >=20 > It=E2=80=99s possible that I=E2=80=99m missing something in the = argument, but I=E2=80=99m=20 > not sure I=20 > see why Barrett Watten believes that Hannah Weiner=E2=80=99s work=20 > constitutes a kind=20 > of special "axiological" challenge. After all, one could make a=20 > long list of=20 > poets whose poetics are inseparable from acute forms of "mental=20 > illness," and=20 > a nearly endless list of poets whose work is impacted, if not=20 > driven, by less=20 > "spectacular" versions of neurosis: In the first group, Smart,=20 > Clare, Blake,=20 > Rimbaud, Baudelaire, George, Trakl, Artaud, Sexton, Plath,=20 > Roethke, Lowell,=20 > Kaufman, arguably Spicer, and in the second group, Dickinson,=20 > Pound, Eliot,=20 > Khlebnikov, Pessoa, Crane, Dylan Thomas, Michaux, Bishop, Celan, = Ritsos,=20 > Finlay, Olson, Duncan, Tanikawa Shuntaro, Wieners, Ginsberg, Eshleman, = bp=20 > Nichol, but I am pretty much drawing rapidly here, and one could=20 > go on and=20 > on. If Weiner constitutes a "problem" in terms of=20 > aesthetic/poetic value, why=20 > don=E2=80=99t these other poets, too?=20 >=20 > Furthermore, and more broadly, perhaps, there possibly seems to=20 > be a bit of=20 > "logocentrising", if that=E2=80=99s a term, at work in this proposal = of=20 > schizophrenia=20 > as some kind of special region beyond "normal" evaluative criteria. = For=20 > instance, if schizophrenia is a scientifically-explainable=20 > illness, and its=20 > symptoms, at bottom, the result of chemical imbalances and = neurological=20 > misfirings, why should the poetry produced under its impacts pose=20 > any more of=20 > an "aesthetic-ontological problem" for "normal people" than any poetry = > produced under the impact of brain chemistry-altering substances,=20 > which may=20 > be half the poetry produced in the world since the Sumerians=20 > invented beer,=20 > in fact. Take Spicer, for example. (And it can=E2=80=99t really be = said=20 > that, well,=20 > you consume drugs and alcohol by choice, but mental illness is=20 > not a choice.=20 > Again, take Spicer as example.) >=20 > I=E2=80=99m posing these questions because the general topic is very=20 > interesting. And=20 > I thought Barrett Watten=E2=80=99s posts on Weiner were insightful and = > actually quite=20 > moving. But I=E2=80=99m still not sure I see the "problem=E2=80=99, as = I=E2=80=99ve said.=20 > And not to=20 > be overly negative, but I think (and particularly in the=20 > sensitive area we=20 > are dealing with) that we need to be careful that an artificial poetic = > "problem" not be created under the force of the bigger hive-mind=20 > neurosis of=20 > academic criticism. I=E2=80=99m not saying that it is in this case, = just=20 > that we need=20 > to be careful. >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 09:04:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ray Bianchi Subject: Re: request for questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit you may want to check out Skanky Possum from Austin, innovative stuff from another region of the country. My writing career would be complete to have a poem in it R ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralph Wessman" To: Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 2:38 AM Subject: Re: request for questions Dear Susan, A couple of thoughts, pretty general stuff. And do you recall the barrage of emails on this list - August/September 97 - discussing little magazines? Some gems in there, you might unearth some ideas. Ralph whether you see the magazine as essentially a magazine for readers, or for contributors who do you see as your audience? what do you get out of publishing the magazine, personally? are you keeping your head above water financially? have you given consideration to technological changes, ie a simultaneous net version? it's often said little magazines all seem to be doing much the same things, prisoners of their circumstances * I suspect you'd say tinfish differs in its innovation and in its regionality - true? others suggest that many magazines are edited eclectically, without due aesthetical considerations on the part of their editors. not true, in the case of tinfish? why? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 17:54:04 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick herron Subject: Nike Tries To Jam the Jammers Comments: To: Ethan Clauset , ImitaPo , Giles Hendrix MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Nike ran an ad this year in select cities that read, "THE MOST OFFENSIVE BOOTS WE"VE EVER MADE 100% SLAVE LABOUR". Seems Nike really doesn't give a shit, and they think you don't either. Find a Niketown or Nike Factory Outlet near you, light a stinkbomb, and leave it there. http://adbusters.org/creativeresistance/36/1.html THE SMELL OF SWOOSH This is not an Art Project Five years after it was exposed as an unethical corporation, Nike is still exploiting sweatshop labor, still paying Indonesian workers a few nickels an hour while rewarding its PR celebrities with millions. After all the campus campaigns and culture jamming, kids all over the world still proudly flaunt the swoosh. In fact, Nike has grown so cocky of late that it’s starting to make fun of its critics. Earlier this year, Nike launched a campaign of jamming the jammers. Billboards like the one shown above popped up all over urban Australia. Then they were postered by "saboteurs" – Fans For Fairer Football ffff.com.au, complaining that the new Nikes gave wearers an unfair advantage. The only "activists" in this case, of course, are in the Nike marketing department. Real activists responded, jamming the jam on the jammers. Websites like nikesweatshop.net and bantheboot.com slammed the company for looking to make (another) fat profit at the expense of its sweatshop workers. The bogus FFFF website was quickly shut down, and everyone was left to wonder: What the hell just happened? Here's one answer. Nike has begun to trade on public cynicism. Decades of marketing have attuned us to watch advertising for signs of any shift in what is and isn’t cool. Today, this trend consciousness pervades every element of culture. It took hard work to link the words "Nike" and "sweatshop" in the public mind, but as that idea is repeated, it steadily loses freshness. It becomes unfashionable, then clichéd. Finally, it becomes "cool" to dismiss the sweatshop accusation, even though the accusation is true. And so – without significantly changing its practices – Nike gets a chance to mock its critics, with the public laughing along. Culture jamming can do serious damage to a corporation's brand. It can also, as Nike is proving, become a marketing hall of mirrors. Nike knew that its "Offensive" campaign would trigger a backlash. They were counting on it. And now they're back in the spotlight, this time on their terms. What Phil Knight forgets is that culture jamming isn’t some kind of postmodern art project. It's a form of sharp public criticism and direct action. If Nike turns culture jamming into a corporate mindfuck at the expense of sweatshop laborers, then we, too, can shift tactics. Obviously the brand damage we've wrought on Nike so far isn’t enough – it needs to be more visceral still. So let us reach deep into our bag of tricks and pranks for a ruckus that can’t be ignored. Hello, what do we have here? Ahhh . . . the humble stink bomb. Let us celebrate the stink bomb. Safe. Easy to make. Simple to carry. And the smell – the smell can linger for days. Imagine small groups of jammers hitting Nike shops worldwide, again and again, with a harmless, rotten-eggs stench. Not a very clever message, but, like tear gas, one that’s very hard to forget. And simple, too: Nike, you’re tainted; your brand stinks! Spraying a little perfume around doesn’t make you clean. Unswooshing Nike will also get the word out to other wayward corp-orations that we the people have our limits. If you debase our discourse, if you blur the line between authentic process and corporate spin, if you openly fan the fires of cynicism, then you are going to get stung. - Kalle Lasn (from Adbusters.org) Patrick Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org http://proximate.org/ getting close is what we're all about here! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:20:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath In-Reply-To: <200107120134.SAA21124@lanshark.lanminds.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Elizabeth, Thanks for the post on Plath. In the Journals I too was impressed with all the natural prose genius she had that seemed to get suppressed as she became serious. Her ability to describe place and capture atmosphere was astonishing. But, then she'd get into crafting a Story and the writing would turn sour. I recently read an excellent article on Plath (Kevin found it and told me about it): http://www.laweekly.com/ink/01/30/books-fraser.shtml Plather by Caroline Fraser New books on Sylvia and Ted In it Fraser talks about the Plath industry, particularly that horrid Sylvia and Ted "novel" by Emma Tennant. (I reviewed the Tennant book myself, as well as Plath's journals--as a fan, not a scholar.) Fraser does a great job of summing up all the controversy around Plath, but then she, thank god, turns to Plath's poetic abilities, how radically she revisioned the fluffy notion of Poetess. She takes Plath's poetry very seriously: "Plath has a claim--perhaps a claim greater than any woman poet before or since--to true greatness, but it has impossible for anyone, including her husband to come to terms with it." I was intrigued by her position that greatness is hard to handle if it comes in a troublesome package, and I was heartened by Fraser's praise of Plath. Radically revising anything female can be a thankless job (or, in my case, keep one from getting jobs). Dodie ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 20:56:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Alan Sondheim>><><> Pet Pat! Put pit pot! Alan Sondheim>> Pin pan, pun. 'Pon pen. Alan Sondheim>> Paw pew, pow! Alan Sondheim>> Pad pod. Alan Sondheim>> Pop pap? Pip pep-pup. Alan Sondheim>> Pet Pat! Put pit pot! Alan Sondheim>> Pin pan, pun. 'Pon pen. Alan Sondheim>> Paw pew, pow! Alan Sondheim>> Pad pod. Alan Sondheim>> Pop pap? Pip pep-pup. Alan Sondheim>> Pet Pat! Put pit pot! Alan Sondheim>> Pin pan, pun. 'Pon pen. Alan Sondheim>> Paw pew, pow! Alan Sondheim>> Pad pod. Alan Sondheim>> Pop pap? Alan Sondheim>> You can't preserve much; I have a volume Alan Sondheim>> In New York there must be a dozen Alan Sondheim>> This is probably the most international Alan Sondheim>> I write from an abstract or virtual Alan Sondheim>> New York, like Newfoundland, has absolutely incredible Alan Sondheim>> Some places, like Miami, conjure up Alan Sondheim>> Alan Sondheim>> Pet Pat! Put pit pot! Alan Sondheim>> Pin pan, pun. 'Pon pen. Alan Sondheim>> Paw pew, pow! Alan Sondheim>> Pad pod. Alan Sondheim>> Pop pap? Pip pep-pup. _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 07:49:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r...cdb at oed WANT2TLK...TEXT MESSAGES...no slams...no fast talk wmn...no bar mitzvah boys with dyspepsia...TEXT MESSAGES...CUL8R....Drn.... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 07:52:10 -0400 Reply-To: bkrogers@catskill.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bertha Rogers Subject: Re: creative nonfiction workshops at word thursdays In-Reply-To: <20010605232003.86216.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE July 1, 2001 Contact: Bertha Rogers, 607-746-7306 WORD THURSDAYS CREATIVE NONFICTION WRITING WORKSHOPS WITH MELORA WOLFF Treadwell =96 Word Thursdays announces new dates for the Word Thursdays Creative Nonfiction Writing Workshops with Melora Wolff. The new dates for the 4-session workshop program are at 6 p.m. the following Mondays: July 30 and August 6, 13, and 30. The workshops will be spent studying, practicing, and discussing four techniques for writing autobiographical prose, with an emphasis on the personal essay and memoir forms. The class will be useful for any writer interested in creative nonfiction, and for those with an interest in the function of poetry and fiction within a creative nonfiction form. Only work written for the class will be discussed. Melora Wolff directed the creative writing program and the O'Neill Literary Center of Washington College this past year, and she has served on the creative writing faculties of Binghamton University and Hartwick College. She is the recipient of a NYFA grant in Creative Nonfiction Literature and is co-author of =93Movies to Manage By : Lessons in Leadership from Great Films.=94 Ms. Wolff has led many writing workshops in the upper Catskills region over the past several years. There is a fee for the workshops. For information, and to register, call 607-746-7306 or email WORDTHUR@CATSKILL.NET. Word Thursdays Adult Literary Workshop Programs are funded in part by the New York State Council on the Arts, and by the National Endowment for the Arts. --------------------30------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 04:01:58 +0000 Reply-To: anielsen@lmu.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anielsen@LMU.EDU Subject: Re: from the desk of the anti-laureate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII If I might modestly correct our honored Anti-Laureate, he can in fact invite anybody he wishes to read at the Library of Congress. One of the few good things about Ameirca is that anybody can, and does, read at the LOC, in the main reading room -- though if the reading is to be aloud, I'd suggest the front steps -- "Why don't they stop throwing symbols?" --Bob Kaufman Aldon L. Nielsen The George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 119 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 _________________________________________________ The simple way to read all your emails at ThatWeb http://www.thatweb.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 07:55:27 -0400 Reply-To: bkrogers@catskill.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bertha Rogers Subject: Re: JOSEPH DUEMER & MINDY KRONENBERG READINGS AT WORD THURSDAYS In-Reply-To: <20010605232003.86216.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE July 16, 2001 Contact: Bertha Rogers, 607-746-7306 WORD THURSDAYS TO PRESENT POTSDAM POET AND VIETNAM FULBRIGHT FELLOW JOSEPH DUEMER AND LONG ISLAND POET AND EDITOR MINDY KRONENBERG Treadwell=96 On Thursday, July 26, Word Thursdays will feature Potsdam poet and Fullbright Fellow Joseph Duemer and Sag Harbor poet and editor Mindy Kronenberg at Bright Hill Farm, 6430 County Highway 16, three miles south of Treadwell and two miles north of the West Delhi Church. They will read from their poetry after the regular open reading during which all attending are invited to read from their work or that of others. The evening begins at 7 p.m., and refreshments are served. Joseph Duemer holds an MFA from the Iowa Writers=92 Workshop, and is an associate professor of humanities at Clarkson University, where he teaches creative writing, literature, and humanities. He is poetry editor of =93The Wallace Stevens Journal,=94 the Poetry Editorial Council member of the Viet Nam Cultural Window magazine, =93Hanoi,=94 and book review editor for =93Poetry International.=94 In 1998 and 1999 he served as judge for the Prague Seminars Fellowship for Emerging Writers. His collection =93Magical Thinking,: won the Ohio State University Press=92s The Journal Award in Poetry. Other collections include =93Primitive Alphabets=94 (chapbook, White Heron Press), =93Static=94 (Owl Creek Press), =93Customs=94 (University of Georgia Press), =93The Light of Common Day=94 (Windhover Press), and =93Dog Music: Poetry About Dogs=94 (editor, with Jim Simmerman, St. Martin=92s). His poetry has been published in American Literary Review, Stand (UK), Tampa Review, American Poetry Review, and others; and his reviews have been published in Manoa, Solo, and Poetry International. In 2000-2001 he held a Fulbright Research Fellowship in Creative Writing in Viet Nam. From May through June 1999 he served as United states Information Agency Academic Specialist, Hanoi National University, Viet Nam. Mindy Kronenberg, Miller Place, is a poet, writer, and teacher at Suffolk Community College and SUNY Empire State College, and serves as a mentor for The Young Writers=92 Institute. She works extensively with Poets & Writers and BOCES programs, and runs the Writers=92 Space at the Babylon Citizens Council on the Arts. Her work has appeared in over three hundred periodicals and texts in the US and abroad. Her two poetry collections are =93Dismantling the Playground=94 (Birnham Wood) and =93The Gravity of Desire=94 (forthcoming, Cross Cultural Communications). She has been a first prize winner in the Chester H. Jones national poetry competition, and was nominated for the Pushcart Prize. In addition to publishing poetry, she has written numerous critical essays, reviews, scripts for video production, and educational materials. Ms. Kronenberg edits Book/Mark Small Press Quarterly, a review of small press editions, and is the organizer/host of the Long Island Small Press Book Fair. Word Thursdays/Bright Hill Press readings are sponsored in part by the New York State Council on the Arts, the National Endowment for the Arts, and by Word Thursdays/Bright Hill Press members and friends. The readings are recorded for Word Thursdays Radio by Writers programs by Jack Schluep. There is a nominal admissions fee. Refreshments will be served. For more information, and for directions, call Word Thursdays at 607-746-7306 (email: wordthur@catskill.net). Word Thursdays may also be visited on the New York State Literary Curators Web Site, http://www.nyslittree.org, where a complete schedule of readings and events for the 2001 season may be found. ----------------------30------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 10:08:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: M L Weber Subject: Linda Bohe -- Collected Poems now online Comments: cc: Rpurhapsa@aol.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed For those you who may be interested: Linda Bohe -- Collected Poems -- now on-line Linda Bohe died in 1983 at the age of 33. She lived in Boulder and then NYC. She studied with Alan Dugan, William Matthews and Richard Hugo. Her terse syntax perhaps reminds one of Hugo, but with a more eclectic range of subject matter. Her broad range of poetic taste was shown in the magazine, Attaboy, which she edited with Phoebe MacAdams. visit the book through www.sugarmule.com --- once at the site look for the "books" link on the homepage _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 10:14:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Alt-X to release Ebooks (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 08:39:53 -0500 From: Kristine Feeks To: sondheim@panix.com Subject: Alt-X to release Ebooks IMMEDIATE RELEASE ALT-X ONLINE NETWORK, ON THE WEB SINCE 1993, LAUNCHES NEW ALT-X PRESS WITH EIGHT ORIGINAL EBOOK AND PALM TITLES BOULDER, Colorado, July 16, 2001 -- The Alt-X Online Network, "where the digerati meet the literati," announces the release of eight original ebook and Palm titles, featuring both well known and emerging international artists and writers. The eight titles inaugurated here include previously unpublished work by postmodern fiction masters George Chambers, Ron Sukenick and Raymond Federman, screen-based auteur Nile Southern, new media stars Mark Amerika, Eugene Thacker, Adrienne Eisen, and Alan Sondheim, and a collection of Neuromantic Fiction from the Black Ice magazine archives. As part of Alt-X's longstanding strategy of utilizing the strengths of world wide web publishing, these ebook and Palm titles will be available to readers for free without corporate advertising. As one of the oldest surviving web sites devoted to producing and distributing provocative works of digital narrative, Internet art and avant-pop fiction, Alt-X is now initiating a cluster of new media projects including free ebook/Palm titles, mp3 compilations, Internet art exhibitions, streaming audio installations, and an upcoming redesign of the entire site, including its popular ebr journal, an international forum on new media art, writing and criticism. "In a time of economic downturn and dot.com uncertainty, Alt-X perseveres and continues its mission to expand the concept of writing," said Alt-X President and Publisher, Mark Amerika. "And as digital writing makes its footprint into the electrosphere, we no longer ask 'What is literature?' but, more importantly, 'What is literature's exit strategy?'" The books are available for free download at www.altx.com/ebooks and many of these new publications will be available as Print On-Demand (POD) titles this Fall. For information on the Alt-X Network, Alt-X Press, or any of the artists, send email to Kristine Feeks at Kristine@altx.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 11:14:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: new media MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - new media there's nothing to carry with you, nothing to give you weight, you have no proof, nothing that occupies space or place you're riding empty air, you can hardly breathe, you're riding vacuum, into the speech or music of it, into the dream of it or afterthoughts or nighttime violence heard from the heat of the window, daytime cries and murmurs from the apartments everywhere but your own or your own, you're there recording, you're making files, slippages, against memories of mountains, boulders, other hardened things you watch your speech slip away, return from nowhere, you watch your dreams ordered back into awkward place and place there's nothing you can say, nothing you can point to, a few thin disks at the very best, rainbows, some machine, or other computers, machines which do nothing, no movement anywhere, inert in the world, you can't go there at the end of the day at the end of the day there's nothing to show, nothing to hear, nothing to hang on to, no accomplishment, cataracts and dead eyes beautiful futures out of drowned, invisible, submergence, as much of our chosen selves, embedded densities lined up out of zero-one abstractions, worlds of non-making, unfashioning worlds, loosening, unraveling new media, none at all, not even a glance, no book burnings, no wonder everyone desperate for history loose fields of magnetisms, plasmas, disks melting in the noonday sun, outmoded broken readers or displays, ecstatic memories memories dying in new suns unfurled into novas, mediations lost in charred polarities, epiphanies of zeros-ones _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 07:22:32 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: No to Rome In-Reply-To: <62.11188cd8.287f4b6b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 2:50 PM -0400 7/12/01, Anselm Hollo wrote: >On Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:42:31 -0600 Maria Damon wrote: > ><antilaureate would say no way just on principle>> > >I=92m just a little anti-laureate in my Avignon (or Pisa), i.e. Boulder >Colorado, saying Not No Way, but simply No to Rome (D.C.). ah bon, en ce cas you go, grrrl! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 07:20:22 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: A Very Stupid Article I Came Across In-Reply-To: <4.1.20010712135841.0098e3d0@pop.free.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 2:15 PM +0200 7/12/01, j.letourneux wrote: >I too saw this, how unfortunately, prior to your having posted its text. >I'm embarrassed for the author, but is there a charm, any, in its un- >lettered boobery? Could it be that such an undistinguished line of thinkin= g, >such a poverty, such an ignorance might be, might be...so bad that it's >....good? Non, non, je plaisante. Culottes de la pens=E9e. i actually think thiere's something to this, plaisanterie ou non --not in this context tho --more like my infamous fondness for "bad poetry" of a certain type, which has gotten me into trouble on the conference circuit --hilton obenzinger used a nice phrase once, i think he was talking about melville's "clarel," he said it was "sublime in its terribleness" --there are certain forms of badness i find v appealing and certain forms not --like, i don't like heavy metal, but i love "doggerel" --md ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:10:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lee ann brown Subject: Church of Stop Shopping Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Dear List I have recently joined the Church of Stop Shopping as a member of their Gospel Choir. If you want to hear us sing, Here are two poetic-musical performances for this Saturday July the 14th in Brooklyn, NY - come hear the most Reverend Billy preach against Starbucks and other chain-store blights. To get on future event list, dial revbilly@revbilly.com > Dearest Hell-Children Engulfed in the Pitiless Shopping Backdraft, > > We at the church are getting emails that Starbucks has purchased 25 cafes= in > Vienna, Austria and will hang the Mermaid With No Nipples in their window= s in > the middle of the night. The children of Freud and Schubert and Klimt wi= ll > wake up to a beseigement of giant Tiazzi ads. May God Have Mercy On Their > Caffeinated Souls. > > We won't let this happen to Williamsburg. Join us at 3 PM on Saturday Ju= ly > 14th (Bastille Day) for a public worship and Manifesto-reading at No. 5th= and > Bedford. The Stop Shopping Gospel Choir will sing and we will march our > demands to a post box and mail them to Howard Schultz, the Brooklyn-born = king > of the fake cafes. That night we will minister to shopping sinners at 7 = PM > at Smack Mellon, 56 Water Street as a part of the Red Green & Blue festiv= al. > Info: complacent.org/rgb > > Bless you > Lee Ann Brown Tender Buttons PO Box 13, Cooper Station NYC 10276 (718) 782-8443 home - (646) 734-4157 cell "Harmless amulets arm little limbs with poise and charm." =8B Harryette Mullen, Trimmings (Tender Buttons) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 18:34:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: Hannah's visions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The word I was searching for earlier ('not taking that label to be a "label of an ~illness"~ per se but a label of a ~condition,'~), rather than "condition," is more correctly "DISABILITY." We are talking about Weiner's disability, about its relation to contemporary poetry, and its nature in general. (1) First, for Camille: another relevant reference I crossed upon in my papers the other night, sorting: Mehlman, Jeffrey, (sic) "Portnoy in Paris," in DIACRITICS, Winter 1972, pp. 21 etc., about the "self-professed" schizophrenic Louis Wolfson, of Brooklyn, who wrote "Le Schizo et les langues," a sort of schizo-autobio, in grade school French, published in France by Gallimard, 1970, preface by (apologies) Deleuze. Sylvere-Lotringer recommended looking into Wolfson when I was doing my research/paper on Artaud (which later turned out to be a presentation at the Museum of Modern Art's Artaud centennial). (2) As far as "the body without organs," "desiring machines," and other Deleuze terminology and whether such "dubious metapsychological concepts" form "an adequate basis for a theory of our collective postmodernity," etc., --- well,--- the idea of "postmodernity" itself is notorious for the same vagueness, and is a kindred and equally French (Lyotard) notion that came out of the same wave. To me, that seems like asking what escargot can brie can add to a croissant (metaphor). "The body without organs" was a term borrowed from Artaud, so quite authentically schizo in its pedigree (Artaud's technical diagnosis was a phrenia slightly to the left of schizo, I forget which). The value of the concept, when paraphrased into the more ~normative~ discourse that's been asked for, had to do with aboriginal or infantile states of indefinition about the body. Linked to other psychoanalytical/metapsychological concepts: "le corps morcele'e" or Melanie Klein's "the body torn to bits and pieces", i.e., the fused, undifferentiated, pre-self/other pre-baby/Mother, oral-anal-genital self-object of Klein's infantile anal sadism stage). The contribution of these concepts is that schizo consciousness would no longer be seen as ~alien~ to the self-styled "normal" mind (viz. the frequent references to famous violent schizophrenics as "monsters"), but ~fundamental~ to it. "Desiring machines": ---well, where would you be now without the desiring machine whose keyboard your fingertips are touching? I hardly know what to say in response to a rejection of "desiring machines," I find their aptness so self-evident. "Desiring machine" then, cyborg now. Perhaps more palatably (normatively) re-stated under different schemata in Lury, Celia, ~Prosthetic culture: photography, memory and identity" (Routledge, 1998). (The French sense of the biomechanic or automaton, as inheritted from Decartes.) Without this French revisionism of stereotypical schizophrenia,--- what are we left with?? American ego psychology? Strides were made with the Sullivanian approach toward the treatment of schizophrenics,--- but the obstacle here, Barrett, is that schizophrenia is otherwise disregarded as ~unanalyzable,~ hence not really meritting or benefitting from psychotherapy. The schizophrenic is innately and irradicably subversive. Was Weiners a "professional" schizophrenic? That is, was her diagnosis and state disability payments her means of livelihood? The problem of "visions"/hallucinations/seeing words does not seem to me as disruptive a problem in her texts as the larger literary problem of where she stood (border-line) one foot in Language Poetry and one foot in second/third generation New York School East Village Personism (her frequent diary-style references to Doug Messerli, Rosemary Waldrop, Charles Bernstein, etc., whom she calls "the language boy": still more of a problem! is this little joke of hers a slow fuse time bomb critique of New York branch Language Poetry as male-dominated, a boys' club). The critical urge (especially the one, Camille, I've seen you use viz-a-viz Bhaktin, etc.) is to read Language Poetry as autonomous text. The loose ends, the ligatures that Weiner leaves explicit between her literature and her life ~force~ biographical inquiries that will seem antithetical to the Language aesthetic, as more and more biographies gradually emerge (there's a David Lehman waiting to undo all their efforts by story-telling a Life of the Poets). Schizophrenia is never "pure" schizophrenia. There are schizophrenics who hoard (the iconic "street person" dragging around plastic bags full of rubbish) and hence are toward the hoarding-&-saving obsessive-compulsive axis; there are schizophrenics whose self-delusion comes out as the old "He thinks he's Napoleon" ~New Yorker~ cartoon (Nietzsche eventually declaring he was Christ, all the many other "crazies" who are Jesus, etc.): there, there's an inflamed narcissistic pole to the personality, with religious mania (Christ/the equally widespread popularity of the Apocalypse among schizophrenics); etc., etc. Those secondary aspects are where schizophrenia can downgrade into something in the direction of "normalcy": if the religious maniac can make it into church, they may be allowed to hang around, given soup kitchen support, in a way that re-contextualizes their religiosity into a like-minded community; the hoarding-&-saving compulsive has survivalist tendencies beneficial to making it through rough winters outdoors, versus the --- exhibitionist/nudist? schiz', who walks around without shoes or a shirt in freezing weather. >From the one Weiner book I own, "Spoke," her above-mentioned friendships, and that she did manage to sustain relationships with fellow authors, is quite impressive. The LSD business would also change the diagnosis: drug-induced psychoses are treatable and more short-lived than idiopathic schizo-psychosis. Do the stylistic parameters of Language Poetry allow the half-functioning schizotype to "blend in" or be concealed through the very genre, the way that homosexuality is undecideably blurred by the sentimental passion rhetoric in pre-XXth-century male-male correspondence? But I'm not sure why her poetry requires explanation by recourse to her life. (!) The claim that capitalized word in the books were words she saw, often stated briefly in an introductory note, functions as a completely endogenous feature of the work. That claim ("clairvoyance"), once put aside, allows a re-examination of the capitalized words: often they seem to rise out of the preceding text and in no way to contradict or interfere with a theme she's unreeling; at other times, some of her "introjects"/"voices" make harsh accusations against her that threaten to undermine the text's forward progress. This is similar to James Merrill's use of a ouija board in "The Changing Light at Sandover," which also provides transcribed "voices." I don't really need to know whether or not Merrill "actually" used a ouija board in his personal life, or what he believed about it. It is fully integrated into the literary machinery of the poem, as a symbol or a myth or a real-life quotation might be. I hope I do not seem patronizing (recommending Deleuze to Camille Martin now seems as embarassing as if I'd recommended The Chicago Manual of Style, it's so foundational). If I do, it's not directed at you(s). These sentences are partially my own attempt to work through some of these ideas/questions. I find the weakness and frailty of her persona(e) to be one of the most appealing features of her writing. In contrast to (masculinist) grandiosity, her protagonist is having a pretty laughable scrapple of a hard time managing even simple things. Like Beckett characters . . . or, more recently, Heather Ramsdell's "Lost Wax," where the poor nit is constantly rummaging around through a closetful of socks, a Philip Guston kind of littered Parnassus. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 07:36:55 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: A Very Stupid Article I Came Across In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" really, i don't get all this crisis-oriented rhetoric about american poetry. who cares? why not just let it die a natural death and let the next thing emerge? that seems to be what interesting poets are doing anyway. the only good piece of writing i've seen on a crisis in lyric poetry is Walter Benjamin on Baudelaire and it's good because it's analytic rather than polemical. At 10:51 PM -0500 7/12/01, Aaron Belz wrote: >I don't know, J. Gallaher. I'm heartbroken by this stupid article, because >I agree with its basic gripe: American poetry has become disconnected from >its readership. Poetry -- as all the arts in American culture -- is >increasingly detached, self-examining, self-judging, etc etc. (yes, even in >our anti-anti-anti-mainstream subba cultcha). > >However, it strikes me as ridiculous to blame Eliot and Pound and some kind >of subsequent academic lineage for the gulf between Poetry and its >readership. I blame the readers themselves just as much -- who aren't >really reading at ALL anymore. And I blame mass media, marketing, and the >entertainment industry, which have lowered people's expectations (not to >mention their ability to interpret cultural objects), and therefore I must >blame the free market at some point, though I am not a socialist either. >And I am quite certain that so-called 'new formalism' is not the answer to >these very fundamental problems! I can just imagine this scenario: > >"Mom, I'm not turning off VH1 for that crappy LANGUAGE poetry; it's too >ivory tower. I'm not going to mute 'Survivor' for something as prosaic as >DEEP IMAGE, mom. That stuff's either irrelevant or philosophically shallow, >in my experience." > >"Okay honey, I brought you a book by Dana Gioia. It's real, it's heartfelt, >and plus, it scans. And here's a Seamus Heaney for you too." > >"Mom, thanks! Now tell me -- who's our poet laureate? I'm interested, >really I am." > > >So yes, Michael Lind is full of shit; here's a better rant that I found on >elimae.com -- > > >+ + + + + + + > >B. Renner >"A Rant Against Contemporary American Verse" > > >There is, of course, no telling what marvelous things might be going on in >the unpublicized wilderness of American poetry: in the smallest of little >magazines; in obscure online journals; in the bedrooms of living Emily >Dickinsons, who may be writing without looking toward publication at all. > >On the other hand, what is going on among the recognized literati, in the >American poetic mainstream, in the camps of the "dominant mode" is >clear--American verse as generally practiced has reached a dead end. As >American "plain speech" continually tightened its hold upon the various >poetic communities in the '70's and '80's, vociferous that poetry speak in >the language of the (apparently not very well educated) people, American >poetry delivered exactly what it was calling for--"poetry" that, verbally, >in virtually no way differed from the thousands of utterly tedious >conversations all of us overhear or participate in all the time, and >immediately forget. Or perhaps there is one difference--in the case of this >poetry, we would mostly hope to forget it without having to hear it first. > >American verse became telegraphic (that is, shorter than prose), without >being sinewy or muscular. It became Aesopic (that is, almost always ending >with a pithy "life lesson"), without being in the least charming or >humorous. And if I may misquote, at this end of the century, Ezra Pound >writing from the other end of the century, this poetry ain't nearly as well >written as prose. (Not that our prose is exactly stellar either--but that's >another essay that needs to be composed by another writer.) > >Two groups, working sometimes as allies--the "new formalists" and the >proponents of the "new narrative" (may I call them the new narrators?)--have >suggested ways out of this cul-de-sac, but neither group seems to be >interested in working hard enough to achieve its stated aims. > >The new narrators, for one thing, tend to write in the same old American >plain speech as the reigning literati, with the distinction that they are >narrating instead of philosophizing. But their "verse" displays none of the >characteristics of verse which the plain speechers jettisoned--i.e. any sort >of regular rhythm beyond the limp iambic which underlies most English >language speech and writing; anything like a plottable (or verifiable) rhyme >scheme; and any verbal conceit of the slightest complexity. Which means >essentially that their stanzas can be rearranged as paragraphs with no loss. > >And what about their narratives as narratives? Well, the reader is unlikely >to encounter any technique that can have been considered fresh or new at any >point after the publication of The Waste Land or Ulysses, but might very >well stumble across the kind of regional or dialectic ramble unseen since >the death of James Whitcomb Riley. > >The new formalists, for all their perhaps well-meaning attentions, can't >seem to scan! My God--you are forgiven for wondering--haven't these people >read Yeats, or Frost, or even Richard Wilbur? Instead they seem content to >block out lines that look roughly the same length on the page, throw down an >occasional end-rhyme (whether it will be noticed by anything but the eye >doesn't seem to matter), break out the thesaurus regularly, and end up in >the same place as the plain speech boys--with a nice little "words to live >by" finale worthy of Reader's Digest. > > >from - http://www.elimae.com (in the archive) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 08:48:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: Wide Cecilia In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Wide Cecilia it is not so much the breaking of the heart as the hips, wide cecilia. i've got a bone you can handle. you are so across. and it's not my confidence you're shaking but the very foundation of your/ with your boom boom. the earth she moves. i'm down on my knees to the sway of you, wide cecilia, sea to shining and all that middle. i'm begging you please, wide cecilia, not to be the wife i mistake you for or do not be any wife. and you need no want no begging. you are already. you are wide and widely wider than air. (With apologies to Mr. and Mrs. Bromige and Mr. Paul Simon.) --- George Bowering wrote: > >yo bow wow! yo borm! you sexy devils. who is this > "wide cecilia" anyway. > >keep the aspidistra flying, me lads. md > > > >At 4:35 PM -0700 7/9/01, George Bowering wrote: > >>Had lunch with David bromige and wide cecilia and > my daughter Thea > >>and Mike Matthews, our co-author today, and though > Dave is a little > >>slow, especially in walking (a lot of that due to > hius terrible > > >feet), he seemed to keep up ,mentally. > > >-- > > > Yikes, that was supposed to be wife Cecilia. Hope > she doesnt see > this. I am going to diner with them in an hour or 2. > -- > George Bowering > Fax 604-266-9000 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:08:05 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Scott=20Hamilton?= Subject: Re: Axiologies of madness In-Reply-To: <3a.17a34062.287f9f68@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit any poetry > produced under the impact of brain > chemistry-altering substances, which may > be half the poetry produced in the world since the > Sumerians invented beer, > in fact. Take Spicer, for example. (And it can’t > really be said that, well, > you consume drugs and alcohol by choice, but mental > illness is not a choice. > Again, take Spicer as example.) Spicer is certainly a strange one. The poetry is very stimulating, but the poetics, to me at least, makes no real sense. I find it hard to take it at face value,ie as generalisations about poets' practice, I tend to read it as a sort of justification for the strangeness of the poems. There is that extraordinary paradox of the linguistics Phd, the trained scientist of language, apparently abandoning himself to the mastery of language... The only piece of criticism about Spicer that I have encountered is Robin Blaser's essay at the end of the Collected Books, and I got little satisfaction from it. The biography doesn't seem to go seriously into literary crit territory, no doubt for good reasons. Has anyone besides Blaser written ambitiously about the guy's poems? Cheers Scott ===== For "a ruthless criticism of every existing idea": THR@LL, NZ's class struggle anarchist paper http://www.freespeech.org/thrall/ THIRD EYE, a Kiwi lib left project, at http://www.geocities.com/the_third_eye_website/ and 'REVOLUTION' magazine, a Frankfurt-Christchurch production, http://cantua.canterbury.ac.nz/%7Ejho32/ ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 19:39:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: ~~Re: Hannah's visions Comments: To: Camille Martin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was in an unofficial "counselling" relationship with one particular schizophrenic (among others) for over two years. He phoned me every day (sometimes many times in one day or in succession, of course, just like a schiz'. For a long time he didn't have a phone in his apartment and had to use pay phones. Invariably, he let his nickel after nickel run out to its absolute last drop, triggering the automated [female!] robot operator voice to interrupt ["I'm sorry, but your time has run out" or whatever. "Please deposit another five cents for another X minutes"]. Speaking of "desiring machines," it was a curious mechanism by which he, innocently, forced the "hearing voices" experience on the listener.) I'll relate a text-related moment that occured with him, peripherally relevant to Camille's questions about hallucinated text, etc. I used to leave tongue-in-cheek messages on my answering machine. At one point, I had a message that said "T-H-I-S I-S J-E-F-F-R-E-Y" (spelled out letter by letter like that, jokingly) "P-L-E-A-S-E L-E-A-V-E A M-E-S-S-A-G-E." People who called would usually respond similarly ("H-I! T-H-I-S I-S . . ."), or laugh, or say something about spelling bees or the alphabet, or whatever. My schizophrenic caller, phoning daily, had left messages for several days without acknowledging whatsoever my outgoing message. Finally, after about a week of messages, he said something about it (he was, like many schizophrenics, highly intelligent and well-educated): "That's a very interesting message you left. Mysterious. You'll have to tell me sometime if it means anything." The surprise to me was that he was unable to amalgamate the obvious parts, letters of the alphabet, back into a meaningful whole, the way everyone else, people in fact much less clever than him had done in a flash. He hallucinated voices sometimes, in his case voices of people he was really around at the time, usually when he or they stepped into the next room. (A schiz' friend of his hallucinated celebrities voices but, we found this hilariously funny, they were the voices of extremely ~minor~ celebrities. I wish I could remember whom, but I don't know a lot about television of popular culture.) He would go to the bathroom and hear the people he had just stepped away from saying ugly things about him through the door. What was amazing about him was that he had the ability to ~double-check~ with the sources of his hallucinated voices whether they had just been talking about him. He could reality text by going up to the person and saying, "Excuse me, but were you just whispering under the door that I should drop dead," etc. By Weiner ~transcribing~ her reported text hallucinations, she may have had a unique reality-grounding technique like that, which brought what otherwise would be lonely "pathology" into a public and interpersonal realm that neutralized them. . . . not that most of the transcribed text hallucinations of hers that I've read were especially malevolent or remarkable in themselves. That, too, says something: the ~depletion~ in her "clairvoyant" messages . . . most that I've read of hers were as banal as street signs, perhaps even moreso . . . ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I find much of what you've written here, Camille, to be very beautiful and eloquent, literary in and of itself, almost a new genre of mental epiphenomena reportage, a realism of privacy: >> it's as if the words were rising to the surface from a place over which I have little conscious or intentional control. More commonly, I have the feeling of "losing myself" while writing, in which I seem to be allowing inner voices, mental movements and desires (and the voices & feelings that I have absorbed from others) to shape the work. Sometimes, in a hypnogogic state, I seem to be dipping into an ongoing chatter within my subconscious mind, as if this chatter might be happening almost all the time, but I'm only allowed access to it during certain twilight states. When I close my eyes at night, I often see a parade of images of faces that seem so particular as to be real individuals, but they are people I don't recognize. Where do they come from?<< That last touch ("Where do they come from?") is reminiscent of the opening quote in Chairman Mao's Little Red Book ("Ideas . . . Where do they come from? Do they fall from overhead?" [I don't have it verbatim]) It's very Proustian, his bedside magic lantern, falling asleep in bed and all that (especially, for me, now after having recently concentrated on Susan Howe's "Bed Hangings" lullaby): >>In addition to the "dictation" mentioned, there's the more quotidian inner stream, the seemingly incessant chatter or parade of images and symbols that we all experience, a kind of roiling conversation among memories, perceptions, and other mental / bodily events. The "conversational" feel, or the feeling of "otherness" of such voices might be due to the fact that the brain is interconnected in such complex ways that ongoing neural events of different types may appear like different voices to us -- perceiving, explicating, commanding, commenting, evaluating, emoting, symbolizing, visualizing ? not to mention the voices contending with each other to place different values on things perceived and tugging at you to behave in different ways, the proverbial angel and devil on your shoulders.<< I'd like to try to imitate it some time. I used to (or can kind of at will re-activate it) "see" either the words that were being said to me (in reality) or the words of my thinking, going back very fast in a sort of teletype closed caption monitor way. They weren't exactly ~in front of~ my retina and in my visual field, the way Weiner reports hers, but sort of like a transparency and somehow coming from "behind" my eye, as there was no question but that they were thought and ~my~ experience, in no way externalized as Weiner imagined hers. I worked for a few years, way back, as a dictaphone operator. My typing speed is high (over 110 w.p.m. when last test 15 years ago on an electric typewriter), and I often found it easier to transcribe by closing my eyes: I would work, literally, "with my eyes shut." Although I was already a sort of "hyper-literate" guy to start with, I think that that prolonged enforcement of having to bring to mind mentally the spelling of words, very rapidly, and then getting faster at it, somehow "helped" to accentuate or ~embed~ these "seen" spellings in this way. Also, developmentally, I might mention: My father worked as a sign painter. He would often have me help him out on Saturdays. Sometimes we'd go up and work on billboards, and so on. So, for one thing, I was raised in this household where down in his basement workshop there were letters, ~big~ plastic or wooden letters, boxes of them. I might either play with them when very young or, in helping him out, have to "go and get" a B or an H or whatever from these stacks. In proportion to my childhood physique, they must have been quite large, by ratio, maybe from shoulders to knees, some of them. --- And then with the billboards, we would be hanging mid-air on scaffolding with letters of the alphabet three times our size, painting them in. I think by growing up around the alphabet on such a Brobdignagean scale (sp.?), it ~embedded~ the alphabet very palpably into my psyche. Hence, "seeing" or semi-seeing words while they're being heard comes "quite naturally," later deepened by other reenforcing. (I think they used to clock typing speed with five [six?] characters per word, so at over 100 w.p.m., typists are manifesting internal thresholds of transcription, of about 500 or 600 letters/units per minute, language micro-pulsations of around 8+ per second. [New Math?] . . . about the rate of musical sixteenth notes at MM = quarter-note = 60) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would prefer if psychodiagnostic terminology were phrased as ~verbs~ rather than ~nouns.~ Rather than "a schizophrenic," to say, "She was 'schizophrenicizing,'" the way we say "obsessing" in place of OCD. I think it makes it easier to understand, somewhat more relax to discuss. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 11:24:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcella Durand Subject: Poems in the Garden MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Poems in the Garden 2 Rebel Road presents the second reading of its annual summer series. Featured Poets: Marcella Durand Lila Zemborain Edwin Torres Saturday, July 21st at 6:30 pm 5 Rebel Road, Shelter Island Long Island, New York Please bring your own blanket. For further information and/or directions, contact: Lila Zemborain (631) 749-9361 or (212) 966-1667 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 19:53:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: Tove Janesson Comments: To: peter culley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit peter culley wrote: > Tove Janesson, Finnish author and illustrator of the Moomin books, died today at 86. Kiitos, Tove. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks very much for posting this, Peter. I was a summer "exchange" student in Sweden when I was a teenager (no one was "exchanged" back into my family in exchange for me, though). I made fast progess with learning Swedish, although I wasn't comfortable enough to speak it until the summer later when I returned and went traveling with friends. They first started my out with a Swedish baby book, "Alla Vi Barn in Byllerbyn." We'd also take cracks at newspapers, Dagens Nyheter, etc. Not long, though, before I'd "graduated" to be able to take on more teenage-sized literature. My friends were very fond of the Mummintroll books in Sw. translation. It may have been her illustrations especially that endeared them: sort of Pillsbury Dough Boy dumpling-shaped characters, fat-bottomed, who did funny things: pyrophobia, where "Pappan" was afraid there might be a tepid matchstick left underneath the dry leaves somewhere that would spontaneously ignite and cause a conflagration, etc., rowiling in boats, their thumbcap-looking haberdasherie, "Trollkarlenshatt" [pronounced "-karlens- -hatt," not "karlen-shatt"]. The reminder tempts to me to take the books down off the shelf. Might be fun-nice to eulogize Janesson with some sort of Adobe Photoshop of her pictures. There was a character called "Lilla My" [the Sw. "y" in "My" is a non-English vowel, more pursed lips, etc., somewhat closer to the Eng. word "mew," the word for a seagull's sound; even "Lilla" is un-Englished in Swedish, more of a "LEE-lah"]. My cat was not named Mu after that character (his name came from the Japanese koan) but, much of the baby-talk/kitty-talk I used to talk with them (Shiki, the other) was broken English broken Swedish Latin etc. The private language of pet-owners. And I'd call him "Lilla My," sometimes. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 19:50:01 -0600 Reply-To: derek beaulieu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu Organization: housepress Subject: Fw: STANZAS #25 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > new from above/ground press > > STANZAS #25 > > further revisions > by ryan fitpatrick > > STANZAS magazine, volume 1, number 25 (since 1993) > edited by rob mclennan > for long poems/sequences. published in ottawa, every so often, by > above/ground press, c/o rr#1 maxville ontario k0c 1t0. $20 for 5 issues, > or $4 for sample issue (or large s.a.s.e.). payable to rob mclennan. > previous issues by meghan lynch, carla milo, Helen Zisimatos, Gary > Barwin, Anne Stone, Jay MillAr, etc. complete backlist & ordering > information at the above/ground link of www.track0.com/rob_mclennan > cover illustration by emily whist. > > submissions encouraged, w/ s.a.s.e. & good patience. > 750 copies distributed free abt Canada & the known world (known to me, > that is). exchanges also encouraged. > > bio: > > while he is currently on an adventure in South Korea, ryan fitzpatrick > usually lives and writes in Ogden, Calgary, Alberta, Canada. he is a > founding editor of (orange) magazine and has published a chapbook, > "revised notes", where "each slice and stitch, noun and verb, adjective > and adverb, conjunction and article, are the mental surgery steps that he ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 14:07:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik Notes For folks in the Big Apple, Our own Aaron Belz is going to appear August 4th at the Ear Inn - 3:00 p.m. 326 Spring Street, west of Greenwich New York, NY and on August 9th at Halcyon - 7:30 p.m. 227 Smith St., between Butler and Douglass Sts. Brooklyn, NY Also, do check out the extremely active THE POETRY SUPER HIGHWAY WEEKLY VIRTUAL UPDATE http://PoetrySuperHighway.com/ (I think these people are on steroids!!) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 14:10:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik Jeffrey Mackie Jeffrey Mackie is a poet living and writing in Montreal with four chapbooks available, the latest being SONORE, Onanist Press, 1999. He can be reached at pushkin_37@yahoo.com. MUSEUMS The bright light shines And it shows That nobody's shadow Is clear I can see things in the light 'the unambiguous strain of capitulation on your face' In the flea markets They are selling the history Of the twentieth century Kitsch objects of ironic value At night the museums are dark. At night Everything becomes a museum I close the computer And it becomes A museum of my thought When it opens I see my words Behind a glass screen My mind is a museum Of memories I have a few objects A few photos Some words written To accompany them I have argued with myself What is valuable? What can be thrown away? BEGIN THE BENIGN Disconnected Modern Trouble Truth Terror Scientists believe: MASS MENTAL ILLNESS BY 2020 We are faking it Killing with impunity The news is pornography BBQ season is over It's flag waving time Flag burning time Anarchists demanding the impossible Nationalists demanding nations Separate our world into microcosms Finance Paranoia - Finance Killing Machines (the benign is within) Raise the homocide rate Raise the interest rate Raise the roof - Lower taxes Lower the boom I argue / I talk I debate / I think I may act (out) - But the song The song remains the same Cleaner brighter (add desire here) And a luxury (add desire here) Take Stock Sever The Bonds Watch televised death Buy groceries Hear the neighbours fucking All in the same day (24 hours) I am never going to dedicate another song I am never going to write another poem for anyone but myself I am never going to say a single thing About anyone But myself And I am Shot out of a cannon Thrown out of bed And if I lose You will learn your lesson If you lose me You will learn your lesson I think I would rather write Terrorist Manifestos Or Suicide Notes I could make them lyrical I could make them rhyme I could make them into: TOP TEN HITS! OH GOD, HOW I MISS THE COLD WAR! I miss the borders And the boundaries I miss the KGB The CIA and Cruise Missiles Client states and Production Quotas Barbed wire and Cement I miss the Paranoia And the unremitting grey I miss the Red Flags, Fur Hats And trigger happy border guards I miss American self- righteousness I miss Nicaragua Slaughtered in the crossfire I miss Che Guevera Resurrected every ten years I miss communal apartments The Space Race And Ballet Stars making a run I miss Krushchev banging his shoe At the United Nations And Reagan saying: 'we begin bombing Russia in five minutes' REFUGEES We are all refugees Refugees from love With our pain and scars Our fear of With clandestine embraces And our pornography Drunken searches for affection Resolute celibacy And our determination – one day Maybe one day - again Dunkin Donuts Coffee Smells like a road trip It tastes like the coffee you get When you pull off the highway To get yourself a cup: I pulled the Magic Ring Off my Dunkin Donuts cup I could win a trip! To one of the forty countries Where you can find Dunkin Donuts The prize you have Appears on the ring When the coffee is poured in It is heat activated I am pretty excited Just walking down a Montréal street And I could win a trip instantly! To some foreign country Where I could be high on caffeine and sugar I wonder if I have to get personal references I mean, some of my friends Have seen me: Hepped up on sugar and caffeine I can't imagine If I was doing sugar and caffeine And trying to speak a foreign language! Jeffrey Mackie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:59:51 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: horace coleman address query In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" does anyone out there have snail and/or email addresses for horace coleman? thanks. back-channel please --bests, md ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 12:18:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Stefans, Brian" Subject: Email addresses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Can anyone backchannel Lyn Hejinian's email address to me? Thanks! Brian ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 10:27:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Organization: Boog Literature Subject: joanna fuhrman in the ny times MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Scanning through my sunday times yesterday, the city section, when lo and behold stumbled on a poem by Joanna Fuhrman from "Freud in Brooklyn" as one of four authors excerpted to show a bit of their book; longtime new york newspaper columnist Jimmy Breslin was one of the others. Nice to see one of our own, and the great Hanging Loose Press, too, plugged in the paper of record. as ever, David Kirschenbaum http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/15/nyregion/15BOOK.html?searchpv=day02 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 10:59:22 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit being only slightly younger than Sylvia and having been cursed in like manner i truly agree things HAVE changed somewhat & not enough ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 11:01:18 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: brom MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit chapbook title writing with wide Cecelia ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 11:02:46 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: Hannah's visions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bipolar in full mania can experience transient schizoprehnia but life is flux and so transient ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 11:26:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: LCR Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath In-Reply-To: <117301c10bc5$7ae9f3a0$737c0218@ruthfd1.tn.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I can't help but wonder how we come to know all this? Are psychiatrists talking? Linda Charyk Rosenfeld >I think US Cultrue is schizophrenogenic (leading to or causing schizophrenia >or schizophrenic-like behavior). > >One of the difficulties in reading about Sylvia Plath is cultural in that >she was 'diagnosed' by critics 50 years ago based on notions of mental >conditions prevalent then. She was also diagnosed by clinicians accordings >to practice then. > >Things have changed > >tom ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 08:13:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Contact info Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Does anyone have email and/or postal addresses for Kevin Magee, George Albon, Tony Towle, Margy Sloan, Lisa Houston Elizabeth Robinson and Robin-Tremblay-McGaw? Please b/c. Thanks. Stephen Ellis _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 11:05:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: A Very Stupid Article I Came Across In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Maria wrote-- > really, i don't get all this crisis-oriented rhetoric about american > poetry. who cares? why not just let it die a natural death and let the > next thing emerge? that seems to be what interesting poets are doing > anyway.=20 Consider that the "next thing" might not "emerge" without dispute, lamentation, crisis. Part of behaving naturalistically -- in my way of looking at it, anyway -- is calling shit "shit" when I see it, and wishing aloud for something better. So, these so-called interesting poets: brave face, don't complain, move forward. Who are they? Would they go so far as to agree with Dale Smith? "How can our poetry exist with the vapid, socially engineered 'Ally McBeal'= ? Or 'Survivor'? Or 'Who Wants to Be a Millionaire'? The task of a poet today is probably more difficult due to this total siege by a culture that seeks dominion over our psyches. The dogma masters of the ad agencies are culture priests, and we're all being manipulated by our desires. Critical theory, and, through it, Language Poetry, helped us articulate the chains that bind us to our culture. But I=B9m sick and bored with enumerating the now obvious infections that limit our actions as men and women. Conceptual arts have magnified the prison yard. I trust perceptive acts to lead us forward, if there is a forward." (http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/jacket15/johnson-ivs-dale-smith.html) > the only good piece of writing i've seen on a crisis in lyric > poetry is Walter Benjamin on Baudelaire and it's good because it's analyt= ic > rather than polemical. Is this online, or can you post it somehow? Cheers, -Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 11:25:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: A Very Stupid Article I Came Across In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Maria et al, Per my email of moments ago, I just noticed that even my hero Dale says he's "sick and bored with enumerating" the problems, so maybe I should stop sniveling! Yet on the other hand, he does begin to enumerate them. -Aaron > > So, these so-called interesting poets: brave face, don't complain, move > forward. Who are they? Would they go so far as to agree with Dale Smith? > > "How can our poetry exist with the vapid, socially engineered 'Ally McBeal'? > Or 'Survivor'? Or 'Who Wants to Be a Millionaire'? The task of a poet today is > probably more difficult due to this total siege by a culture that seeks > dominion over our psyches. The dogma masters of the ad agencies are culture > priests, and we're all being manipulated by our desires. Critical theory, and, > through it, Language Poetry, helped us articulate the chains that bind us to > our culture. But I'm sick and bored with enumerating the now obvious > infections that limit our actions as men and women. Conceptual arts have > magnified the prison yard. I trust perceptive acts to lead us forward, if > there is a forward." > (http://www.jacket.zip.com.au/jacket15/johnson-ivs-dale-smith.html) > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:23:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: Axiologies of madness Comments: To: patrick herron In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >>>Occasionally a poet realizes that being mentally ill might make them a better poet, etc. Anne Sexton spent her life in envy of fellow Boston socialite Sylvia Plath. Sexton even articulated her envy of Plath's illness on several occasions. Sexton eventually killed herself. It's obviously not an attractive path.<<< Ouch--"socialite"? Kind of a headline word, innit? And correlation vs. causation here is tricky--Sexton's pathologies manifested long before she had met Plath--in fact, at least in her own narrative, she resumed poetry only at the urging of a psychiatrist & only later met Plath. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:36:29 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Muffy Bolding Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit for perhaps one of the most interesting and enlightening articles i have ever read regarding plath and the many theories surrounding her mental health in relation to her work (and trust me, i have read MANY...LOL) see the salon piece listed below: http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2000/05/30/plath1/index.html best -- ;) *muffy* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:58:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: A Boston Poetry Marathon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed A Boston Poetry Marathon Thursday July 19th—Sunday July 22nd Art Institute of Boston (at Lesley) 700 Beacon St. Boston, MA Featuring over 40 poets over 3 nights and 2 afternoons— for more information e-mail boma@zensearch.net or check out www.canwehaveourballback.com/boma.htm for the latest schedule updates. 7/19 Thursday night: 7:00 Fred Moten 7:20 Wanda Phipps 7:40 Lori Lubeski 8:00 Anselm Berrigan 8:35 Andrew Schelling 8:55 Joseph Lease 9:15 Laura Mullen 9:35 John Yau 7/20 Friday night: 7:00 Prageeta Sharma 7:20 Donna de la Perriere 7:40 Michael Franco 8:00 Edward Foster 8:35 Thomas Sayers Ellis 8:55 David Shapiro 9:15 Cole Swenson 9:35 Fanny Howe 7/21 Saturday afternoon: 12:30 Karen Weiser 12:50 Sean Cole 1:10 Lisa Lubasch 1:30 Brendan Lorber 1:50 Maria Damon 2:30 Devin Johnston 2:50 Brenda Iijima 3:10 John Mulrooney 3:30 Aaron Kiely 3:50 Max Winter 7/21 Saturday night: 7:00 Nicole Peyrafitte 7:20 Pierre Joris 7:40 Heather Ramsdell 8:00 David Rivard 8:35 Tom Sleigh 8:55 Lisa Jarnot 9:15 Franz Wright 9:35 Frank Bidart 7/22 Sunday afternoon: 12:30 Jeni Olin 12:50 Dana Ward 1:10 Elliza McGrand 1:30 Sam Cornish 1:50 Arielle Greenberg 2:30 Danielle Legros Georges 2:50 Jessie Stickler 3:10 Beth Woodcome 3:30 Nathan Hauke 3:50 Jumper Bloom 4:10 Jordan Davis Directions: Subway: Take the MBTA Green Line, any train but the "E" train to the Kenmore Square stop. When arriving at street level, go west on Beacon Street. Exits to street level are not clearly marked. Once at street level, look for these landmarks: the AIB bright orange banners and the US Trust Bank building (AIB is located next to this building). AIB is located at 700 Beacon Street. Driving from the West: 90E (Mass Pike) to Copley Plaza Exit, quick left onto Dartmouth Street. Straight on Dartmouth for 4 blocks, then turn left onto Commonwealth Avenue. Go 9 blocks straight on Comm. Ave through Kenmore Square. AIB is 150 yards down Beacon Street away from Kenmore Square. Driving from the North: 95S to 93S or 128S. If 128S, to 90E (Mass Pike) and follow Western Mass directions. If 93S, to Storrow Drive, then Storrow Drive to Kenmore Square Exit. Turn right off Kenmore Square Exit (Charlesgate Drive West) onto Beacon Street. Go 3 blocks straight on Beacon Street through Kenmore Square. AIB is 150 yards down Beacon Street away from Kenmore Square. Driving from the South: 95N, 24N or 3N to 93N or 128N. If 128N, to 90W (Mass Pike) and follow Western Mass directions. If 93N, to Storrow Drive, then Storrow Drive to Kenmore Square Exit. Turn right off Kenmore Square Exit (Charlesgate Drive West) onto Beacon Street Go 3 blocks straight on Beacon Street through Kenmore Square AIB is 150 yards down Beacon Street away from Kenmore Square. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 12:46:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: poetic experiments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable in my admittedly limited experience it fairly common for Eastern = European and Russians to refer to the process of writing a poem as an = 'experiment'. I happen to find this congenial with what I write as I write and it = seems to be more than a language issue. My feeling is that some time aways back anglo critics abandoned the usage as they fled in abandon from the hard sciences and poets have followed too willingly. As a scientist I = conduct experiments, as a psychologist I encourage clients to experiment with = life, and as a poet I experiment in a number of ways. i guess my view is that perhaps poets have abandoned the field to the sciences a little too quickly. tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Herron" To: Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 11:56 AM Subject: Re: Hannah's visions > > > > Talking about "experimental" or "advanced" poetry, art, etc., one = should > > beware the irony of the situation, how these terms actually do not = quite > mean > > what they say and often have acceptance of society integrated > (pre-programed) > > in them. > > > ...especially considering the word "experimental." Isn't experiment = the > very foundation of science and technology development? (Hint: yes.) = I'd > hazard a guess and say science is fairly "mainstream." Every time I = hear > the word "experimental" in a literary context I see in my minds eye = some > poet at a lab table testing various literary tropes, with some = solvents, > chemicals, PCR reagents, mice in tiny little boxes. > > Patrick =3D<}}}}}}}}}****((((((((&&&&&&&&&~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Metaphor/Metonym for health at = http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Black Winds Press at = http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/blackwin.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 12:51:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Hannah's Visions, cont. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Camille, As I said earlier I am coming to this discussion late and also = readig backward chronologically as I find timebut I'm also finding a lot here that's useful. For example, I suspect you might find it useful to explore further = the diagnosis of 'schizophrenia' Hannah received, rather than just avoiding = the issue of diagnosis. "Schizophrenia' is a very vague and amorphous term = even for professionals. If I get a patient with this label attached I and I think most others would ask who said this and why did they say it as in understanding and helping someone accuracy is important. Schizophrenia comes in many colors and competent professionals tend not to just throw = it around without careful phrasing. It does matter here whether, for = example, it was a psychiatrist, a psychologist, or a social worker who used the phrase. If it was used it is also important to know what else = accompanied the phrase as medication and treatment here focus more on the symptoms = than the person and the 'visions' you describe are symptoms that can and do appear with a number of conditions. It is unfortunate that non-professionals do tend to see labels like this = as referring to the person rather than symptoms of a condition a person is suffering from but this is also a tendency professionals do not seem to = have taken a strong enough stance in clearing up. I'm not at all casting = blame here, merely suggesting that some research into the issue might prove worthwhile. tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Camille Martin" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 2:51 PM Subject: Hannah's visions > I'm interested in Hannah Weiner's poetry & her ability to see words (& hear > voices, see visions) as a neurological phenomenon. I'm wondering, for > example, whether it might be related to synesthesia (as Richard = Cytowic > describes it in his work _The Man Who Tasted Shapes_). > > If anyone would like to respond to the following questions, I'd = appreciate > the dialogue. > > Were any psychological/cognitive studies performed to study Hannah's = gift? > I wonder whether there was any curiosity on the part of = neuroscientists to > determine why she saw projected words. I understand that she took = LSD, at > least before she began to have hallucinations of color and image, as = her > book The Fast documents, & I wonder whether/how this was related to = the > emergence of her ability. > > Was Hannah herself interested in her ability from a neurological > perspective? If so, did she write about it or discuss it? > > I read that she was diagnosed with schizophrenia ... I'm less = interested in > the label of an illness than I am with what was happening in her brain > during her visions. Hope this doesn't sound too biologically = reductive. > It's one aspect of her that makes me curious. I'd appreciate any = comments > on this or sources to read. > > Also: does anyone have copies of the journals she wrote after The Fast > (Country Girl, Pictures and Early Words, and Big Words)? Any idea how = I > can get a copy of these works? > > Thanks. > > Camille > > > Camille Martin > 7725 Cohn St. > New Orleans, LA 70118 > (504) 861-8832 > unfortunately most poets can (as can most people) be fitted with a major psychiatric diagnosis, such as affective disorder or drug or alcohol = abuse. Many of us suffer. Some carry on and some can be helped. But it does = seem to be a part of the human condition that many people have pretty = significant problems. I think the only harmful thing that can be done here is to prepetuate uninformed stereotyping, particularlyin such statements like all poets = are schizophrenic or the ________ school was a bunch of druggies. From my perspective as both a practitioner and a sufferer neither the = 'dignosers' or the 'anti-psychiatrits' was particularly helpful in helping individuals. the disgnosis os schizophrenia is particularly pernicious as it also = often carries the connotation of 'thought-disordered' but even here it is = helpful to look at individuals who sometimes get confused in their thinking. = One of the hallmarks of schizophrenics is that for the most part they are so troubled by confused thinking that they are unable to function despite = the scare stories the media perpetrates. Not only did Hannah function and excel, but she was able to wrestle with the demons in her life and = triumph. Note that I purposefully emphasize demons in _life_ because visions (hallucinatory or not, colored or not) ar in reality a method or way of deling with life and it's demons and not the demons themselves. The = thing that fascinates me about Hannah and others is that for her poetry was a = way of wrestling with life. tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Beckett" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 11:28 AM Subject: Re: Hannah's visions > "Intention and address." Craig Watson and I corresponded obsessively = about > these issues back in the 1980's. And it's been at least that long = since I > read Jaynes' _The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral > Mind_when it first came out. I can see why that book would have = appealed to > Hannah. My memory of it is fuzzy but I seem to recall Jaynes = discussing the > origin of the idea of a muse as an aspect of the evolution of the > brain--that, prior to the development of consciousness as we know it today, > one's "inner voice" was experienced as external. > > The history of poetry, of course, is full of examples of poetry as = visions or > dictations or messages for which the poet serves as conduit. Think of Blake, > Yeats, Duncan, Rimbaud, Spicer, Artaud, etc, etc. Think of Orpheus in = the > Cocteau movie getting his verse through a car radio. > > Hannah was a great poet. Her diagnosis shouldn't get in the way of = that. If > anything it makes her even more extraordinary. Very few = schizophrenics > create wonderful art. Most just live in chaos and pain. > > > NB:Psychotropic drugs are usually a mixed blessing. There are = typically > side effects that are unwelcome. It's never a simple either/or. > > > Tom Beckett it is fairly common knowledge among clinicians who work with them and clients in more lucid states to recognize that in fact everyone always = hears noise all the time. some people ignore it and some people make the = chaos into voices and some people need the help of medication to keep the = noise from forming into words they don't like. the same applies to vision. = this might take some of the mystery and drama out of the topic here but also = i think is a humanizing perspective on the whole phenomena coming as it = does at the close of a Friday, the 13th. tom bell =3D<}}}}}}}}}****((((((((&&&&&&&&&~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Metaphor/Metonym for health at = http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Black Winds Press at = http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/blackwin.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:23:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Allen H. Bramhall" Subject: sub sensitively to a.bacus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit a simple appeal to your considerable good sense. for the past 17 years A.bacus has, under the editorship of Peter Ganick and now Dan Featherston, published the writers listed below in single author issues (okay, with a few collaborations), eight issues per year. why not subscribe, and see where the road goes? get your school to subscribe too, let people see this work! $30/year with the occasional special bonus issue, most recently an excerpt from Lisa Jarnot's book on Robert Duncan. this amazing price includes first class postage. send checks (payable to Potes & Poets Press) to: Potes & Poets Press 2 Ten Acres Drive Bedford, MA 01730-2019 see Small Press Distribution (www.spdbooks.com) for single issues, or visit our website www.potespoets.org now a hand for the poets: P. Inman, Maria Richard, Dan Raphael, Tina Darragh, Lee Bartlett, Miekel And, Charles Bernstein, Laurie Schneider, Cid Corman, Pete Spence, Janette Orr, Ron Silliman, Jackson Mac Low, Todd Baron, Janet Hunter, James Sherry, Diane Ward, Pete Spence, Dan Raphael, Jean Day, Bruce Andrews, Ray DiPalma, Steven Forth, Kit Robinson, Maureen Owen, Charles Bernstein/Henry Hill, Alan Davies, Steve Benson, Susan Howe, Leslie Scalapino, Andrew Levy, Johanna Drucker, Dennis Barone, Gail Sher, Peter Ganick, Robert Grenier, John Byrum, Brita Bergland, Clark Coolidge, Carla Harryman, Stephen Ratcliffe, Rachel Blau DuPlessis, Julia Blumenreich, Joan Retallack, Laura Moriarty, Spencer Selby, Diane Ward, Jena Osman, Susan Roberts, Larry Price, Barrett Watten, Steve McCaffery, Ray DiPalma, Melanie Neilson, Rochelle Owens, Thomas Taylor, Susan Gevirtz, Kathleen Fraser, Rae Armantrout, Norman Fischer, Jessica Grim, Sheila E. Murphy, Bob Perelman, Elaine Equi, Andrew Levy, Margy Sloan, Nick Piombino, Susan Nash Smith, Gerald Burns, Matt Wellik, Craig Watson, Liz Waldner, Jefferson Hansen, David Bromige, Rosmarie Waldrop, Gilbert Adair, Lori Lubeski, Juliana Spahr, Carla Harryman, Michael Gottlieb, Tom Beckett, Stacy Doris, Norma Cole, Laura Moriarty, John Taggart, Lyn Hejinian, Daniel Davidson, Ann Lauterbach, Merle Bachman, Mark Wallace, Bob Perelman, Peter Ganick, John Perlman, Rae Armantrout, Dick Higgins, Rod Smith, Carole Maso, Nico Vassilakis, Hannah Weiner, Elizabeth Robinson, Robert Sheppard, John M Bennett, Sianne Ngai, Elfriede Czurda, Leslie Scalapino/Lyn Hejinian, Ron Silliman, Mark Wallace, Jefferson Hansen, Johanna Drucker, Buck Downs, Norma Cole, Kevin Magee, Cheryl Burkett, Lisa Adriani, Dan Featherston, John Lowther, Alan Sondheim, Michael Basinski, Ivan Argüelles/John M Bennett, Laura Moriarty, Peter Ganick, Tsering Wangmo Dhompa, John Olson, Laynie Brown, Richard Deming, Lisa Jarnot, Jen Hofer/Melissa Dyne.... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 17:18:51 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick herron Subject: Re: Axiologies of madness Comments: To: Gwyn McVay In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for offering to edit my post! I'm sure I need it. I should have said about Sexton, "most of her life as a poet" she articulated an envy of Plath. Perhaps socialite wasn't exactly the right word, but then, what is when you're a relatively affluent suburban Bostonian who has the privilege of attending private universities and expensive psychiatric institutes? Socialite isn't it, sure, but then I didn't want to spend too much time picking the "right" word. Plath and Sexton both attended Lowell's poetry seminars at BU in 1959. Please note that I never said anything about cause vs. correlation. But we can talk philosophy! In such a case as Sexton's, the distinction between cause and correlation is quite misleading, as something like this partakes of both causation and correlation. Kind of a vicious circle, but not even. The distinction between causation and correlation is artificial and implies a disjoint relationship between what the two terms represent. What is represented by correlation and causation in Sexton's illness seem to overlap quite a bit. I'd dare say any such distinction in Sexton's case is quite misleading. Sexton once confided to her friend and sponsor Lois Ames that, "If only I could get a scholarship to McLean." For those of you who don't know this, McLean is a famous psychiatric institute in the Boston area that's very expensive and loaded with Ivy types. She envied Lowell and Plath, who had both been institutionalized at McLean. Sexton wasn't able to get herself into there, though it wasn't because of any lack of illness. Sexton seems to have had some sort of love-hate relationship with her mental illness, but it seems to lean towards the love side, which, as I said, IS very dangerous. As Ames said herself, "We both (Ames and Sexton) recognized that Sylvia Plath and Robert Lowell had been there (McLean), and she wanted to be in that lineage." Sexton, however, managed to conduct a poetry seminar at McLean in the mid 60s. Sexton was finally admitted to McLean in 1973, with 9 credit cards in tow. One of the cards was for the Hotel Algonquin. Sexton was likely aware of Plath before they met. they were both raised in the well-to-do western suburbs around Boston. they both went after the same big awards, the same big publishers. at one time they even got together after one of lowell's seminars and discussed suicide. Sexton: "She told the story of her first suicide in sweet and loving detail." After Plath's suicide in 1963, Seton wrote this: Thief! how did you crawl into, crawl down alone into the death I wanted so badly and for so long. There's a sort of glamour to the illness that I've heard from many people, one that I see as dangerous. It is perhaps as causative as it is correlated. As you say, it's "tricky". But it's more than "tricky"; one can amplify his or her illness by embracing the illness. Sexton learned to write poetry on the advice of her shrink. She learned to use her illness to feed her confessional writing, and in turn the ambition to be a better writer fed the illness. Sexton's image of Plath and Lowell were both integral parts of that cycle. Perhaps it's brave, perhaps it's dumb, but clearly such a longing as Sexton's is dangerous. I know this only too well; when I am hypomanic I am really productive but when it starts going into full-blown mania I amaze even myself but then feel the loosening of the plugs in the dam, so-to-speak. I know not to go there; else I'll be with Plath and Sexton in no time. It might even be a psychological explanation for why I loathe most confessional poetry; I avoid it so as to protect myself. I guess my poetics are somewhat confessional but my poems are NOT. (For references above, please see the _Atlantic Monthly_, "The Mad Poets Society," July/August 2001, p.96-103.) Best, Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: Gwyn McVay [mailto:gmcvay@patriot.net] > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 2:23 PM > To: patrick herron > Cc: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Axiologies of madness > > > >>>Occasionally a poet realizes that being mentally ill might make them a > better poet, etc. Anne Sexton spent her life in envy of fellow Boston > socialite Sylvia Plath. Sexton even articulated her envy of Plath's > illness on several occasions. Sexton eventually killed herself. It's > obviously not an attractive path.<<< > > Ouch--"socialite"? Kind of a headline word, innit? And correlation vs. > causation here is tricky--Sexton's pathologies manifested long before she > had met Plath--in fact, at least in her own narrative, she resumed poetry > only at the urging of a psychiatrist & only later met Plath. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:49:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Hannah's visions are content - CB and BW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.nd.edu/~amanier/papcd.html syllabus for a course on the philosophy and psychology of madness Her interest in the issues is quite interesting to me and relates I = think to what Fenton is saying, based on today's NYT BR: "The strength of poetry depends on the weaknesses of poets...by embracing...humiliations and failures, by refusing to calculate their way to success, these poets = release themselves to write in ways that speak to their readers, as they could = never do by putting on a conventional show of strength." While easily dismissed by classification as conventional, academic, = plebian, etc. I see this as pointing more to questions about what the 'content' = of poetry could or should be. tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Bernstein" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 9:01 AM Subject: Hannah's visions > Hannah Weiner's papers, including manuscripts of all unpublished = writings, are in the Special Collection at UCSD. A useful index to the Weiner's = papers at UCSD is available at > > http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/speccoll/findaids/literary/weiner > > Hannah refers to Julian Jaynes's book, The Origin of Consciousness in = the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, in her writing, but I don't otherwise recall her discussing "Western" neurobiology; certainly she was = interested in "chakras", "auras" and related mind-body concepts, including native American ideas of consciousness and would certainly have been aware of = the full range of "psychological" and "scientific" thinking about = consciousness, from William James and Semyon Kirlian onward. (As far as I know, Hannah = had no neurological testing, though reading her work is a useful test of the reader's neurological pathways and possibly may help to expand them, = which surely was what Hannah viewed as a value for poetry.) > > Charles Bernstein What I found interesting and challenging was the comment Charles = Bernstein threw in almost off-handedly (if you can email off-handedly) to the = effect that in part at least Hannah was riting to educate readers on the = wonders of the neurology of the mind. I find myself trying to lead readers into = and through my 'quirky' ways of thought at times and this is not (so they = tell me) the result of any wiring difficulties. Speaking of 'wiring difficulties' I would find it helpful in this and related discussions if we could try and stick to common sense = discriptions of what is rather than jargon that has been picked up along the way. = There are vast differences clinically among some of the terms thrown out here = and clinically precision is vital. In my experience those with difficulties tend to appreciate either precisely defined clinical explanations or = common sense everyday ones but tend to be bothered by half-learned jargon. In = the same way reading jargon thrown out from a number of the many disciplines which are involved here disconcerts me. My guess, for example, is that = the "diagnosis" of HW as schizophrenic was made by someone who read an = article in _Discovery_ magazine about neuropsychoimmunology and the diagnosis = was made on lifestyle and a reading of her work. If based on clinical notes = or reports one wonders if that material was accessed with her permission = and also who made the diagnosis. Somebody who may have been in a position = to make a half-way accurate diagnosis, such as her doctor, psychiatrist, or psychologist would have I would think been much more careful and = accurate in his or her definition of the condition as we are aware of the weird wanderings a loose definition can take discussions (as is vident here). 'schizophrenia' is essentially an empty cipher and a code that can be defined by each according to their needs. Maybe that was a code word = that Hannah herself inserted for us? tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 7:48 PM Subject: Axiologies of madness It=E2?Ts possible that I=E2?Tm missing something in the argument, but = I=E2?Tm not sure I see why Barrett Watten believes that Hannah Weiner=E2?Ts work = constitutes a kind of special "axiological" challenge. After all, one could make a long = list of poets whose poetics are inseparable from acute forms of "mental = illness," and a nearly endless list of poets whose work is impacted, if not driven, by less "spectacular" versions of neurosis: In the first group, Smart, Clare, = Blake, Rimbaud, Baudelaire, George, Trakl, Artaud, Sexton, Plath, Roethke, = Lowell, Kaufman, arguably Spicer, and in the second group, Dickinson, Pound, = Eliot, Khlebnikov, Pessoa, Crane, Dylan Thomas, Michaux, Bishop, Celan, Ritsos, Finlay, Olson, Duncan, Tanikawa Shuntaro, Wieners, Ginsberg, Eshleman, = bp Nichol, but I am pretty much drawing rapidly here, and one could go on = and on. If Weiner constitutes a "problem" in terms of aesthetic/poetic = value, why don=E2?Tt these other poets, too? Furthermore, and more broadly, perhaps, there possibly seems to be a bit = of "logocentrising", if that=E2?Ts a term, at work in this proposal of schizophrenia as some kind of special region beyond "normal" evaluative criteria. For instance, if schizophrenia is a scientifically-explainable illness, and = its symptoms, at bottom, the result of chemical imbalances and neurological misfirings, why should the poetry produced under its impacts pose any = more of an "aesthetic-ontological problem" for "normal people" than any poetry produced under the impact of brain chemistry-altering substances, which = may be half the poetry produced in the world since the Sumerians invented = beer, in fact. Take Spicer, for example. (And it can=E2?Tt really be said = that, well, you consume drugs and alcohol by choice, but mental illness is not a = choice. Again, take Spicer as example.) I=E2?Tm posing these questions because the general topic is very = interesting. And I thought Barrett Watten=E2?Ts posts on Weiner were insightful and = actually quite moving. But I=E2?Tm still not sure I see the "problem=E2?T, as I=E2?Tve = said. And not to be overly negative, but I think (and particularly in the sensitive area = we are dealing with) that we need to be careful that an artificial poetic "problem" not be created under the force of the bigger hive-mind = neurosis of academic criticism. I=E2?Tm not saying that it is in this case, just = that we need to be careful. Barrett, I think you are right here when you say it's not a simple either/or question as she was after all is said and done a person and a writer and deserves the consideration of being seen as an individual rather than = member or non-member of a class of writers who wrote under the influence of psychobiology since when you open this up on any basis other than individually there is a vast number of influences of a chemical or neurobiological nature that need be considered. Hemmingway is a classic example for me of someone who apparently needed at times he thought to = have a little so he could write (I could actually be wrong about this but the reality here doesn't matter as the mythos is so strong). It us, by the = way, quite common for 'schizophrenics' to self-medicate through using alcohol = as that reportedly makes the voices go away.. as I think through this thread I think what may have touched me off is a tendency of some to want to put writers into a group or classify them. While it might be helpful in studying poets or writing about them, ultimately they are individuals and this goes beyond the groupings. tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barrett Watten" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 1:35 PM Subject: Hannah's visions > Hannah's visions, under the "I see words" rubric, were literally > hallucinations. She would see words and type what she saw. There was a > specific onset of this condition (when? how?), and I remember speaking with > her about how the words tended go away with medication. This may have = been > an incentive not to medicate--so there was a tradeoff between the = downside > of "symptoms" and feeling emotionally upbeat about getting a lot of writing > done--by hallucination. > > It seems that one could go one of two directions here. Acknowledge = that the > words that came were "symptoms" of an underlying illness and then = decide on > the relation of that condition to their literary value, or suspend = that > decision--no matter what produced them, they were re-presented in = literary > form and hence a part of "shaping" sensibility, possessing form and > intention. Certainly her work with "codes" in the 60s influenced her = sense > of the value of these phenomena. > > It's not a simple either/or question, but not asking it, I think, gets = a > lot simpler result in terms of reading or responding to Hannah's work = and > self-presentation. Is she in a special "category of one" as a writer = who > sees the words that she writes? Should a book about Hannah Weiner be > classified under "disability studies," "neurology," "psychology," in > addition to poetry? To what extent does the psychobiology of her = writing > practice challenge the literariness of her work? > > When we think of the various automatisms that have been put forward as = an > answer to reason in 20th-century poetry, do we have to qualify these > phenomena in terms of some kind of self-conscious method in order for = them > to be "literary"? What is the status of Hannah's "literal" = transcription of > automatism vs. what Breton wanted from it? Would Breton have approved = of > Hannah's work? Is her work more akin to "art brut," an "outsider" art = that > needs the recognition of a museum or collector (or archive!) to = validate it? > > In beginning to think about these things, I'd suggest it's important = that > there was a conflict in the nature of intentionality in Hannah's work, = at > the very least--medicate and stop hallucinations, cease medication and > hallucinate. How to think about the nature of such a decision? > > BW =3D<}}}}}}}}}****((((((((&&&&&&&&&~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Metaphor/Metonym for health at = http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Black Winds Press at = http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/blackwin.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 11:11:31 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: A Very Stupid Article I Came Across MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Maria. But doth thou PAY for doggerel. I can produce infinite reams of it fit to embellish the walls of ....lets see, some aged and ivy coved Hall of Academe where the souls of the devout burn cold and dim.....that sort of thing...under the flaps of the honky seraphim:; eh what que no non? I of course ask but a pittance......and if thee hast the means of the desire .... well....I might out Wilcox Wilcox or any other poettte ...McGonagall bless his armpits...or any other you care...just for the sheer bloody minded hell of it to doggralise into scorned obscurity. Yours in salivatory anticipation, your servant and poet for anyone's dollar, Monsieur Richarde Tarleurre St Chalierre de Romane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maria Damon" To: Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 1:20 AM Subject: Re: A Very Stupid Article I Came Across At 2:15 PM +0200 7/12/01, j.letourneux wrote: >I too saw this, how unfortunately, prior to your having posted its text. >I'm embarrassed for the author, but is there a charm, any, in its un- >lettered boobery? Could it be that such an undistinguished line of thinking, >such a poverty, such an ignorance might be, might be...so bad that it's >....good? Non, non, je plaisante. Culottes de la pensée. i actually think thiere's something to this, plaisanterie ou non --not in this context tho --more like my infamous fondness for "bad poetry" of a certain type, which has gotten me into trouble on the conference circuit --hilton obenzinger used a nice phrase once, i think he was talking about melville's "clarel," he said it was "sublime in its terribleness" --there are certain forms of badness i find v appealing and certain forms not --like, i don't like heavy metal, but i love "doggerel" --md ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 11:22:47 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Hannah's visions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sheila. Aways mad? No. But it may be that we more readily "forgive" a "strong man" his madness or his rages: maybe somwhat that division, that power "difference" is endemic, genetic even: maybe we are trapped in some mad god's genetic dream. But maybe we can each think our way thropugh thesethings whether we are male or female. Presumably we need each other. I have two daughters and find them eminentoly sane and very forthright and especially the youngest very independent people. "Women" can choose to be victims of a power structure or choose to live, as men can or whoever. Otherwise why have "freedom"? Have brain will think. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Massoni" To: Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 5:18 PM Subject: Re: Hannah's visions > Lucy you are so quite right they went nuts they were irritated irritated > women are always nuts according to the power standards > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 19:32:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Your Love MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Your Love Miami is sexy vacant and intense Miami presents Susan Graham lying in the sun Miami is vacuous reaching out to the viewer Miami runs with the answers of Susan Graham Miami is nude and semi-nude and trembling MIAMI! you're there beneath me, mouth wide open, ready for the bad-dream turn-real! MIAMI! perfect-model Alan-flesh: "Yours, MIAMI!" Alan thinks it is perfect MIAMI! charred Susan-red-flesh day now, it's becoming you, the violence of MIAMI! It's becoming you. You're not there yet. You don't have to be. It's seeping in. You wake up in the middle of the night; you've lost control again, semen everywhere. You beg her to scratch your eyes out. You beg her to cut your nipples, spread your legs so hard the skin rips, each half becomes a hole. You beg her to piss in your mouth, "Please, drown me in your excrement. Please, I want to be your toilet. I don't want to think or see anything. I don't want to hear anything." You explain about the worm Miami, the beast Miami, Miami-parasite. "It enters into your holes, eats your skin from the inside out, smashes against the nerve endings of the muscles where herpes hides, devours mitochondria and flagella. You have to be careful of the water which is Miami water and burns your skin, chars lines just where the scars will be." You beg God to kill every one in every place in every world. "Dear God, kill everyone." "Dear God, kill every human." You say to her, "Every bad thing is there." You beg her to shit in your mouth. "I will not wash," you say, "I want the smell of your shit on my face. I want to be close to you. I want to prove my love. And your shit is sexy." You beg God to agree. Every night you go to sleep and you think miami is becoming you miami is nude Susan Graham, her ass open above your waiting mouth miami is the waters of the world miami is drowning you Dear Jeb Bush, you are a wonderful Governor and I hope to prove my love to you. Love, Susan Graham _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 19:49:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: exercise of closure with the thing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - exercise of closure with the thing writing with my eyes closed and writing very quickly and no regard and wonder: what is this thinking about sex that it appear in all these of these work, so that it is as if all there is to my "work" is such sex such as it is, which is not what could be the case, or is it not? for there is not that sex within it, nor the violence, nor the lurid; there are just beneath the surface of scaffolding another scaffolding placed there to present unremitting desire, no, that is, philosophical thought nor would, perhaps it is not such? thought in which philosophy hold itself to the wall, it's not just one sex text after another, not that this bevy of Susan, Alan, Nikuko, and so many many others, I have seen them all, I have come back to tell thee, could not or would not exist, but that: writing very quickly with my eyes closed so I could focus on the philosophical nature of the thing which is the content, the thing and its proper name thing and its structure thing and its clarification as thing or entity thing and its definition or linguistic relationship to shifter and other forms of insertions what constitutes the thing what might be for example in this or any other language, writing very quickly with the eyes closed so as to miss the thing so as to harbor or garner the thing so that the thing might appear in its form of expansion and compression which is the location of itself or within language almost as if i were speaking the name just as if i were speaking the name cutting through the space of the text into or through the space of the other the sex of the thing "going to show you" its sex watching the thing appear it's writing with its eyes closed _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 18:48:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Plath + Woolf Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Dodie, Thanks so much for your thoughts and leads on Plath! My mind is brought also to a book on V. Woolf I read last month by Brenda Silver, called Virginia Woolf Icon. It's about the ways she's been framed in popular culture, mostly since her death. Very intriguing, especially as there's a whole section on this tshirt my mom had in the 70s that left a big mark on my psyche. Virginia as the beautiful smart young thing, side view. Elizabeth ___________________________________________ Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page2.html ___________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 22:35:43 -0400 Reply-To: gmcvay@patriot.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: Axiologies of madness Comments: To: patrick@proximate.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "(patrick herron)" wrote: > > Thanks for offering to edit my post! I'm sure I need it. I admit that the paragraph below is rather beyond my editing ability. >>> Plath and Sexton both attended Lowell's poetry seminars at BU in 1959.<<< Yes. >>>Please note that I never said anything about cause vs. correlation. But we can talk philosophy! In such a case as Sexton's, the distinction between cause and correlation is quite misleading, as something like this partakes of both causation and correlation. Kind of a vicious circle, but not even. The distinction between causation and correlation is artificial and implies a disjoint relationship between what the two terms represent. What is represented by correlation and causation in Sexton's illness seem to overlap quite a bit. I'd dare say any such distinction in Sexton's case is quite misleading.<<< Okay, you have proven me a doof, I guess, because I do not understand quite what you are getting at here. >>> Sexton was finally admitted to McLean in 1973, with 9 credit cards in tow. One of the cards was for the Hotel Algonquin.<<< This I understand: this is reverse classism, and just kind of rude. James Merrill was filthy dripping rich: was he *for that reason* a Sucky Person and Poet? (Robert Lowell, William S. Burroughs, et alia of the well-born?) >>>There's a sort of glamour to the illness that I've heard from many people, one that I see as dangerous.<<< Agreed. >>>I know this only too well; when I am hypomanic <<< I have snipped here. I believe your personal experience. Notwithstanding, I can see you and raise you, but I thought you would prefer that one's personal craziness status *not* be the salient point? Whose craziness is most politically (poetry-politically?) correct? My point, if I have one, is only that it is quite possible to take issue with Sexton's poetics (admit, don't go for her myself) and with the moral consequences of that poetics, without arguing ad feminam. You sound mad at her for being rich. That's understandable, but also kind of pointless, neh? She dead. Let's be now. Seriously, Gwyn ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 00:55:28 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick herron Subject: Re: Axiologies of madness In-Reply-To: <3B54F5E3.A5C7BFD8@patriot.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gwyn - I see the credit cards as evidence of Sexton's mania, actually, not one of privilege. The Hotel Algonquin has its fair share of romantic literary trappings, doesn't it? So here in this image of her pocket full of credit cards, "Hotel Algonquin" emblazoned on one of them, I see Sexton's mania bound to a romanticism about literature. Call this image a poet's imagination, if you will. Perhaps her credit cards were something of privilege, but I was not suggesting that. I meant only to point out that her pursuit was/is a dangerous one. I surely have no intention of proving you a doof or any such nonsense! In reading your posts I sincerely doubt that's possible. But, Gwyn, I beg you, please do not rush to judge what my intent is, OK? I don't mean to _argue_ class and I don't want to be dragged there. If we beat up on each other it will get neither of us anything but animosity. I might be bipolar but I'm not crazy. You made a point to say that I was claiming her perception of Plath was a cause of her illness. You made the excellent point that she was writing poetry before perhaps meeting Plath. Agreed. But, but but. The "illness" can be fed, can be nurtured. Such illnesses have lives of their own. So in a way, her vision and very dark (and poetic) romanticism about Plath, Plath's suicide, and their commonalities did indeed appear to feed her demise. Sexton's own benefactress made it a point to remark that Sexton felt Plath was a competitor. Sexton did not stabilize her cycles and even did things a bit dangerous with her potentials. In this sense sexton's relationship with Plath is causative as much as it is correlative. As far as reverse classism, you'd have to know from where I come in order to diagnose that, right? There's nothing wrong with being rich AND a poet, _prima facie_. Richness has its own politics, something I dare not touch here. Besides, poetry knows no class boundaries. All I was saying is that I think it is very dangerous to embrace and amplify one's own suicidal tendencies. For that I have criticized her, but perhaps I mean only use that criticism to create my own myth to save my own life. Does that make me some sort of bad person? But you're right, she's dead now. Her poetics, however, live and we all know how much we talk about dead people around here. If I say, "Sexton's bad for choosing to embrace her madness and want more of it," (a gross simplification of what I was really saying) perhaps this myth will save me, and save others. Yes, this is life and death for some of us. Just for saying these words I may be "guilty" of the same things Sexton is. So be it. >>I thought you would prefer that one's personal craziness status *not* be the salient point? Whose craziness is most politically (poetry-politically?) correct?<< One's personal "craziness" is part of a process, but it is not everything. I mean not to exclude personal factors from discussions of poetics, but I also mean to keep make them from being the only thing (and that to me seems implicit in a confessional poetics). As far as politically correct "craziness", I'm afraid I can't answer that. It seems a silly question to pursue, yes? Here's what I originally wrote: >>>Occasionally a poet realizes that being mentally ill might make them a better poet, etc. Anne Sexton spent her life in envy of fellow Boston socialite Sylvia Plath. Sexton even articulated her envy of Plath's illness on several occasions. Sexton eventually killed herself. It's obviously not an attractive path.<<< Well, Sexton was a fashion model before her illness, alcoholism, institutionalizations, and poetic achievements, so the term socialite quite literally applies to at least part of her life, but you might fairly argue that she cannot be typecast as such for her life's entirety, and I would heartily agree. You are right, "socialite" is perhaps the wrong word or perhaps too reductive. So let us forget "socialite" for a moment. Sexton was a complex and tragic human being. Sexton's choice is indeed a salient example of how celebrating one's life-threatening illness (not merely one's personal "craziness," which to me sounds like mere idiosyncrasy) is dangerous. You agree with me that it is. You don't like my example. So be it. But please don't suspect that I don't like her or am confused about the ambiguities of self and poetry and "madness"; I merely don't want to repeat her fascination with madness as an avenue to great literature. Much of her writing is amazing and blessed with powerful inspiration. In many ways I feel a sort of kindred spirit with her. I know what's it's like to drink heavily and regularly, and I know too well what it's like to be manic depressive and feel the upward and downward surges, and I understand how those two behaviors relate to creative poetic output. I see myself in her shoes avoiding that vortex that she leaped into; for her I feel only sorrow, even if I may never earn benefaction. For Sexton I feel pain and compassion. Perhaps my big difference with her is that I want to discourage anyone from embracing the surges. Such a mental commitment as Sexton's is not romantic. It is scorched earth and heap of limbs. Best, Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: Gwyn McVay [mailto:gmcvay@patriot.net] > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 10:36 PM > To: patrick@proximate.org; UBPO > Subject: Re: Axiologies of madness > > > "(patrick herron)" wrote: > > > > Thanks for offering to edit my post! I'm sure I need it. > > I admit that the paragraph below is rather beyond my editing ability. > > >>> Plath and Sexton both attended Lowell's poetry seminars at BU > in 1959.<<< > > Yes. > > >>>Please note that I never said anything about cause vs. correlation. > But we can talk philosophy! In such a case as Sexton's, the distinction > between cause and correlation is quite misleading, as something like > this partakes of both causation and correlation. Kind of a vicious > circle, but not even. The distinction between causation and correlation > is artificial and implies a disjoint relationship between what the two > terms represent. What is represented by correlation and causation in > Sexton's illness seem to overlap quite a bit. I'd dare say any such > distinction in Sexton's case is quite misleading.<<< > > Okay, you have proven me a doof, I guess, because I do not > understand quite what you are getting at here. > > >>> Sexton was finally admitted to McLean in 1973, with 9 credit cards > in tow. One of the cards was for the Hotel Algonquin.<<< > > This I understand: this is reverse classism, and just kind of rude. > James Merrill was filthy dripping rich: was he *for that reason* a Sucky > Person and Poet? (Robert Lowell, William S. Burroughs, et alia of > the well-born?) > > >>>There's a sort of glamour to the illness that I've heard from many > people, one that I see as dangerous.<<< > > Agreed. > > >>>I know this only too well; when I am hypomanic <<< > > I have snipped here. I believe your personal experience. > Notwithstanding, I can see you and raise you, but I thought you would > prefer that one's personal craziness status *not* be the salient point? > Whose craziness is most politically (poetry-politically?) correct? > > My point, if I have one, is only that it is quite possible to take issue > with Sexton's poetics (admit, don't go for her myself) and with the > moral consequences of that poetics, without arguing ad feminam. You > sound mad at her for being rich. That's understandable, but also kind of > pointless, neh? She dead. Let's be now. > > Seriously, Gwyn > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 19:17:58 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Reuven BenYuhmin Subject: Email address Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Would appreciate if someone can back channel Johanna Drucker's email address. Thanks, reuven ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 01:24:11 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dodie etal. My feelings about Plath are, on reading her again and keeping as much biographical things "at bay" as much as possible, she is a remarkable poet: one of America's greatest.Or one of the world's. Easily a greater poet than Hughes. A poet with an extraordinary native ability and great energy in composition. I cant comment on her prose as when I read The Bell Jar I was rather depressed myself. I dint like the "negative side of her...but that is no objectie objection, just a response at the time. But certainly she and some of te othe so called "confessionals" have been denigrated or inadvertently "spoiled" by their admirers. I like those writers as well as the less "direct" poets. I see Berryman and Roethke as intermediate somwhat. Plath's work has the craftmanship or craftiness? of eg Dylan Thomas without the tendency toward ovekill and or overkill or oversaturation in adjectives and a drowning in sound..but any way Thomas is doing rather different things. My thoughts. Ragards, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dodie Bellamy" To: Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 9:20 AM Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath > Elizabeth, > > Thanks for the post on Plath. In the Journals I too was impressed > with all the natural prose genius she had that seemed to get > suppressed as she became serious. Her ability to describe place and > capture atmosphere was astonishing. But, then she'd get into > crafting a Story and the writing would turn sour. > > I recently read an excellent article on Plath (Kevin found it and > told me about it): > > http://www.laweekly.com/ink/01/30/books-fraser.shtml > > Plather > by Caroline Fraser > New books on Sylvia and Ted > > In it Fraser talks about the Plath industry, particularly that horrid > Sylvia and Ted "novel" by Emma Tennant. (I reviewed the Tennant book > myself, as well as Plath's journals--as a fan, not a scholar.) > Fraser does a great job of summing up all the controversy around > Plath, but then she, thank god, turns to Plath's poetic abilities, > how radically she revisioned the fluffy notion of Poetess. She takes > Plath's poetry very seriously: > > "Plath has a claim--perhaps a claim greater than any woman poet > before or since--to true greatness, but it has impossible for anyone, > including her husband to come to terms with it." > > I was intrigued by her position that greatness is hard to handle if > it comes in a troublesome package, and I was heartened by Fraser's > praise of Plath. Radically revising anything female can be a > thankless job (or, in my case, keep one from getting jobs). > > Dodie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 07:34:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Loden Subject: more songs for brom & wide cecilia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >>Had lunch with David bromige and wide cecilia > Yikes, that was supposed to be wife Cecilia. Hope she doesnt see > this. I am going to diner with them in an hour or 2. George, mum's the word of course. But I couldn't help singing this in the shower, to the tune of "Oh Shenandoah": Oh Bromowitz, I long to hear you Steal away! to Starlite Diner Oh Bromowitz, I long to hear you Away, I'm bound away Cross the wide cecilia Oh Bromowitz, I love your daughter Away, you sweet shapeshifter It was for her I'd cross the water Away, I'm bound away Cross the wide cecilia Oh Bromowitz, when last I saw her Away, foggy diviner Oh Bromowitz, I did adore her Away, she's bound away Cross the wide cecilia Oh Bromowitz, you took a notion Away, my bonnie drifter To sail across the stormy ocean Away, you're bound away Cross the wide cecilia Oh Bromowitz, I'm bound to leave you Away, slippery contriver Oh Bromowitz, I'll not deceive you Away, I'm bound away Cross the wide cecilia -- Rachel Loden http://www.thepomegranate.com/loden/hotel.html email: rloden@concentric.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:45:13 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anselm Hollo Subject: from the desk of the anti-laureate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1. Thank you Maria! 2. OK Aldon -- how about a Mass Anti-Reading on the Library of Congress Steps ? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 13:51:48 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ammonides@AOL.COM Subject: Some questions on poetic madness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1) Jed Rasula, who in my estimation is one of the most "underrated" poets and critics presently working, told me matter-of-factly a number of years ago at the MLA convention in Washington D.C. that his magnificent and little-known long poem "The Field and Garden of Circe" was largely dictated to him in periodic bursts from some beyond-- the first lines, in fact, literally appeared in front of him *as they were being written*, on a facing wall by another hand. I had some correspondence with Rasula quite some time ago, spoke to him on a few occassions, and have seen him speak very impressively in a number of public venues: He is consummately "sane", as I'm sure others can attest. How do his visions relate to the Wiener "problem"? 2) Fredric Jameson once (in)famously analyzed Bob Perelman's poem "China" as an instance of "schizophrenic language"-- not in the sense of the poet biologically exhibiting the condition, but in the sense of the poem enacting the aphasic symptoms of an anonymous, irradiated postmodern condition. The poem's "new sentence" proceedings, according to Jameson, are not merely literary moves demonstrating a critical "mind in control of its language"; its non-syllogistic prosody is more deeply the "dictated" logic of late capitalist cultural disfunction and illness. Though I realize that most on this list long ago "dispensed" with Jameson's argument, is it worth entertaining the possibility in any way (and I believe Jeffrey Jullich was beginning to push at this question, too) that the cordoning-off of "normal" expressions of parataxis/ansyntaxis from "special-case diseased" ones is itself a proto-symptom (taking the form, in this case, of a repression or exclusion) that the ghost of Jameson's critique still haunts the unconscious of Language/post-language poetries? 3) Was Lacan, who treated Artaud with electro-shock, saner than his patient? Is a Borromean knot the expression of sane theory or of hysteria? Or does it mark a conflation? Like all art of experiment and provocation is a mutually-traced conflation? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 18:13:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Webarteroids -- poetry and computer games In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://webartery.com/webarteroids/webarteroids6.htm http://webartery.com/webarteroids/shipshoot8.htm http://webartery.com/webarteroids/webarteroids3.htm Webarteroids (in progress) is a poetical transmogrification of the classic computer game Asteroids. I'm developing it with the folks on the webartery mail list--that list is devoted to discussion of poetics of web.art/net.wurk/net.art what have you, for the uninstantiated. You use the Space key to blast the texts (and the head, in the second URL), the 'A' and 'S' keys to move forward and back, and the 'K' and 'L' keys to turn. As I said, it's very much in progress still, not finished. But it has some interesting possibilities already, as you might observe, textually, narratively, vispoetically, philosophically, constructively, destructively, interactively, and so on. I came across some freeware Lingo (the programming language associated with Macromedia Director, which produces Shockwave output for the Web) code by Ian Clay and Wolff Olins on the Net, and thought I'd check it out. The code was actually quite simple and minimal in its extent and nature, just right for wide-ranging adaptation. It wasn't a full game of Asteroids, just the essentials. No comments in it, but it wasn't hard to figure out, very cleanly written. Maybe three pages of code, maybe not that long. I liked the simple quality of the code, and it ran fairly smoothly on my Pentium II 400MHz machine, which is probably very average these days in its speed. I was curious about the literary/poetical poetential of such code. As are many of the good folks on webartery. So we're going to take this as far as we can. If you want to participate, you can check out the discussion of the project (and computer games/poetry more generally) on the webartery list at http://onelist.com/group/webartery/messages (usually the subject has 'webarteroids' in it) and join the list from there. You might want to backchannel me to at jim@vispo.com, if you do so, and tell me who you are. I co-moderate the list with Mez. The more I get into the code, the more I realize that Asteroids is really quite a clever, minimalistic engineering design that maxs the communication between onscreen objects (and interactively) while minimizing the computational overhead. I've been interested for some time in the notion of onscreen literary objects with their own behaviors... Regards, Jim Andrews www.vispo.com www.webartery.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 20:33:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: reading Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable POETRY READING Thursday, July 26, 5 pm=966:30 pm at the Tucson Pima Arts Council Gallery 240 N. Stone Avenue Free Admission Please call 620-1626 for information. FOR LOVE: CHAX PRESS POETS AND FRIENDS Each poet will read one poem they love but did not write, and at least one= =20 poem of their own. All poets are from Tucson. Some have had books published= =20 by Chax Press. Some will have books published in the future by Chax Press.= =20 All are friends of the press. This poetry event is the last event to occur= =20 in the gallery during the STEINFELD WAREHOUSE ARTISTS GROUP EXHIBITION,=20 which includes work by Chax Press. The participating poets are: Tenney Nathanson Tim Peterson Lisa Cooper Imo Baird Dennis Williams Heather Nagami Jim Paul Charles Alexander & more sponsored by Chax Press and the Steinfeld Warehouse We are somewhat limited by time constraints (TPAC needs to close before=20 7pm), but if POETICS LIST members who are in the area would like to=20 participate in this reading, please let me know as soon as possible. charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 23:42:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: brom In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > >yo bow wow! yo borm! you sexy devils. who is this "wide >> cecilia" anyway. >> >keep the aspidistra flying, me lads. md >> > >> >At 4:35 PM -0700 7/9/01, George Bowering wrote: >> >>Had lunch with David bromige and wide cecilia and my daughter Thea >> >>and Mike Matthews, our co-author today, and though Dave is a little >> >>slow, especially in walking (a lot of that due to hius terrible >> > >feet), he seemed to keep up ,mentally. >> > >-- >> >> >> Yikes, that was supposed to be wife Cecilia. Hope she doesnt see >> this. I am going to diner with them in an hour or 2. >> -- >> George Bowering >> Fax 604-266-9000 >> > >& now you're taking wide Cecilia to a diner? shame on you, george! > >pierre >________________________________________________________________ >Pierre Joris Just out from Wesleyan UP: Damn. I took typing for half a year in HS, for punishment, and it didnt catch. -- George Bowering Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 07:23:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Eugene Brooks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/18/obituaries/18BROO.html Eugene Brooks was Allen Ginsberg's older brother. Allen once told me that Eugene was the best poet in the family. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 22:48:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - 1 impossibility of our language 2 no one can understand the language we are speaking now 1 h 2 h 3 h 4 h 5 h 1 h 2 h 3 h 4 h 5 h 6 h >> zz 7 h 8 h 9 h 1 h 2 h 3 h 4 h 5 h 6 h >> zz 7 h 8 h 9 h 10 h >> zz 1 h 2 h 3 h 4 h 5 h 6 h >> zz 7 h 8 h 9 h 10 h >> zz 11 h >> zz 1 h 2 h 3 h 4 h 5 h 6 h >> zz 7 h 8 h 9 h 10 h >> zz 11 h >> zz 12 h >> zz 1 h 2 h 3 h 4 h 5 h 6 h >> zz 7 h 8 h 9 h 10 h >> zz 11 h >> zz 12 h >> zz 13 h >> zz 3 no one will ever understand the language we are using 4 our language is impossible here we are, speaking on a street corner; we are speaking freely in the open and no one around us understands our language. we are in a country with millions of inhabitants and almost know one here speaks our language. we can talk freely about our terrorisms and assassinations because no one is listening who will understand us. the chances that someone here will understand us is almost nil. people are walking by us and looking at us and they do not understand that we are planning terrorisms and assassinations. we are very safe with our language, speaking on this street corner; we are looking into the faces of ignorance, faces which will be utterly transformed with the passing of this evening, this night, this coming dawn. we are looking at these people, while we are planning, and we are seeing the pasts of this country of millions, this country which will never be the same again. no one understands that we, speaking in an unknown language, are responsible for their future in a completely irrevocable manner. on this street corner, our plans are already coming to fruition, we are speaking calmly, we might be talking about anything at all. _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 22:50:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: correction, "no" for "know," apologies - please use instead MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - 1 impossibility of our language 2 no one can understand the language we are speaking now 1 h 2 h 3 h 4 h 5 h 1 h 2 h 3 h 4 h 5 h 6 h >> zz 7 h 8 h 9 h 1 h 2 h 3 h 4 h 5 h 6 h >> zz 7 h 8 h 9 h 10 h >> zz 1 h 2 h 3 h 4 h 5 h 6 h >> zz 7 h 8 h 9 h 10 h >> zz 11 h >> zz 1 h 2 h 3 h 4 h 5 h 6 h >> zz 7 h 8 h 9 h 10 h >> zz 11 h >> zz 12 h >> zz 1 h 2 h 3 h 4 h 5 h 6 h >> zz 7 h 8 h 9 h 10 h >> zz 11 h >> zz 12 h >> zz 13 h >> zz 3 no one will ever understand the language we are using 4 our language is impossible here we are, speaking on a street corner; we are speaking freely in the open and no one around us understands our language. we are in a country with millions of inhabitants and almost no one here speaks our language. we can talk freely about our terrorisms and assassinations because no one is listening who will understand us. the chances that someone here will understand us is almost nil. people are walking by us and looking at us and they do not understand that we are planning terrorisms and assassinations. we are very safe with our language, speaking on this street corner; we are looking into the faces of ignorance, faces which will be utterly transformed with the passing of this evening, this night, this coming dawn. we are looking at these people, while we are planning, and we are seeing the pasts of this country of millions, this country which will never be the same again. no one understands that we, speaking in an unknown language, are responsible for their future in a completely irrevocable manner. on this street corner, our plans are already coming to fruition, we are speaking calmly, we might be talking about anything at all. _ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 00:46:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: COLLAGE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = COLLAGE 1 b 2 ls 3 tail lz 4 vi zz 5 b 6 pico zz 7 ls 8 h Fri Jul 20 00:29:23 EDT 2001 The Moon is Waning Crescent (1% of Full) You have no new mail. k3% tail lz on this street corner, our plans are already coming to fruition, we are speaking calmly, we might be talking about anything at all. but then we're speaking about collage, aren't we? what on earth could anyone say about collage? oh oh oh oh oh it's so UNNATURAL! the uniqxe blend of nothing whatsoever: i just want to see IT i just want to see YOU i don't want the add-ons: talk about ABJECT! this is about COLLAGE this is about FOUND TEXTS this is about ARRANGEMENTS AND CUTUPS oh hell, take them away: there's an ANIMAL here that WANTS TO SPEAK TO US what are you going to do about it? once you start the collage, everything becomes re/mediation and everything and everyone JUST WANTS TO BE DONE do me do me do me no what? x no what? i just don't want you NEXT TO IT i just don't want you NEXT TO THAT THING collage is IRREVOCABLE cut: the VIOLATION-CLUTTER of HISTORY PLASMA burns at the edges of ORGANIC INTENSITIES COLLAGE guarantees the FORGETTING OF BODIES in the DARKEST OF NIGHTS COLLAGE inserts the EGO at the HEART of the WORLD OF OTHERS COLLAGE always does it to OTHERS COLLAGE always a BROKEN CONSTRUCT COLLAGE always HIDEOUS KINKY COLLAGE always the EASY WAY OUT PARASITIC COLLAGE VIRAL COLLAGE COLLAGE of the ARTIST OF THE BIGGEST NAME COLLAGE of BOREDOM SCISSORS CUT-PASTE COLLAGE COLLAGE is always DELETE COLLAGE is always KILL "i just don't want you NEXT TO THAT THING" = ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:21:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Mayhew, Jonathan E" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I found this in the Washington Post website. Many of these clich=E9s = are applicable to poetry as well: =20 "The following is a list of 50 truisms, half-truths, blatant lies and childish wishes, fundamental to the way we think about art, and none of = them very useful. 1. Art is a universal language. 2. It captures the eternal human spirit. 3. It brings us closer to our fellow man. 4. It makes us better people. 5. It is timeless. 6. It expresses the inexpressible. 7. It is our secular religion. 8. It makes us human. 9. It heals. 10. We can't live without it. 11. Art is the greatest creation of society. 12. Genius requires suffering. 13. Only people who make a living from art are artists; unless they are geniuses, in which case they suffer (see No. 12). 14. Geniuses get "paid" after they die, when they are discovered and = loved posthumously. 15. Art makes artists immortal. 16. Happy artists make uplifting art; unhappy artists make depressing = art. 17. Except for comic artists, who are unhappy but mask their true = feelings. 18. Artists are prophets. 19. Art falls into distinct periods, generally corresponding to the centuries. 20. If an artist's work doesn't represent his period, he's either a = rebel (genius) or a conformist (hack). 21. Young artists struggle until they find their voice. 22. An artist's voice first appears in his/her "masterwork." 23. Art is constructed in layers; the "deeper" layers matter the most. 24. Art isn't about ordinary things; art transforms the ordinary. 25. To make great art, artists must separate themselves from the world. 26. But artists also hang out together in glamorous social circles. 27. Artists make art to get sex; or they sublimate sexual thoughts into = art. 28. Artists have particularly large libidos. 29. Artists are too busy with their art to care about politics. 30. Artists who care about politics are either (a) rebels (geniuses) or = (b) propagandists (hacks). 31. Art transports us. 32. But art also centers us in the world. 33. Nature can make "art" too. 34. Art and craft are the same thing (both express the eternal human = spirit; see No. 2). 35. The important thing in art is self-expression (compare No. 1). 36. Young artists make turbulent art; old artists make serene art. 37. European artists are generally "young" (they make turbulent art). 38. Asian artists are generally "old" (they make serene art). 39. African artists make "primitive" art. 40. Primitive art helps rejuvenate decadent (European) art. 41. Collecting primitive art is a kind of apology for colonialism. 42. Violence in art offers us a cathartic release; but violent art = makes us violent. 43. Misuse of metaphor helps "explain" art (luminous music, harmonic = colors, etc.). 44. Ambiguity in art is profound. 45. Anyone can make art (because we all have a little "genius" in us). 46. My kid could do that (because art is a fraud). 47. Art transcends class barriers. 48. Critics don't "get" art; but "critically acclaimed" art is a good investment. 49. Art exposes the collective unconscious. 50. By studying "top 50" lists you can learn the general drift of = culture. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 08:55:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Cope Subject: a couple of queries Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hello all, Might anyone be able and willing to help me locate the following? If so, please backchannel (scope@ucsd.edu). Thanks... 1. A (presumably short) Octavio Paz poem in the translation of which might be found the words "wounds" and "effulgent," and that turns on the word "But" (???) 2. The place (article, essay, review, introduction, whatever) where May Swenson writes of Charles Reznikoff? Thanks again, Stephen Cope scope@ucsd.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 16:44:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Stefans, Brian" Subject: The Sweetest Poison, or The Discovery of L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E Poetry o n the Web MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain A short, provocative essay by the Canadian poet/programmer/digi-art guy Neil Hennessy: http://www.alfalfafalafel.com/sugarplum.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 19:50:43 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ammonides@AOL.COM Subject: addendum, Rasula/ Wiener MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I realized after sending off my post about madness and poetry that I should have added something important: In speaking of Jed Rasula's comments to me about the first lines of "The Field and Garden of Circe" literally appearing in front of him, I failed to say that I immediately asked him if this "vision" took place in a drug-induced state. His answer was No, and that, further, he knew it had nothing to do with any kind of drug "flashback". This seems important to add to my comments on Rasula and the question posed about Wiener that followed. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:44:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kiwi Subject: More new Green Integer titles Comments: To: Bea Aaronson , Daniel Abdal-Hayy Moore , Jawad Ali , Joe Amato , James Anderson , Bruce Andrews , David Antin , Terese Bachand , Rachel Tzvia Back , Claudia Barnett , Todd Baron , Jennifer Bartlett , Evan Bates , Dan Beachy-Quick , Tom Beckett , Guy Bennett , Magnus Bergh , Charles Bernstein , Jennifer Bertasi , Ray Bianchi , Andrej Blatnik , Hugo Bonaldi , Regis Bonvicino , "M.F. Bradway" , Russell Bramlett , Allison Brand , Lissa Brennan , James Bristol , Victoria Brockmeier , James Brooks , Lee Ann Brown , Franklin Bruno , Christophe Brunski , Catherine Bull , Katie Bunker , Christopher Bush , harvard.edu@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU, David Buuck , Michael Cashin , John Cayley , Ken Chen , Abigail Child , Lynda Clausen , Judy Cochran , Julia Connor , Stephen Cope , Marc Couroux , Walt Cure , Howard Curtis , Ptera Dactyl , Tina Dacus , Diana Daves , Jordan Davis , Richard Deming , Zac Denton , Eric Dickens , Steve Dickison , Judita Mia Dintinjana , Michael Disend , Christian Dittus , Tyler Doherty , Arkadii Dragomoschenko , Kendall Dunkelberg , Jason Durga , Sam Eisenstein , Raymond Federman , Alex Finlayson , James Finnegan , Mark Fleckenstein , "Coleen M. Fox" , Howard Fox , Robert Freedman , Jennifer Frota , John Gallo , Carlos Garay del Moral , Ramon Garcia , Lilianne Giraudon , Robert Owen Goebel , Howard Goldblatt , Allan Golding , Jaimy Gordon , Tony Green , Roger Greenwald , Michele Griffith , Lisa Grzan , Joyce Hackett , Luba Halicki-Hoffman , Carol Hamilton , Thomas Hansen , Charles Harris , Heather Hartley , Kevin Hehir , Michael Henry Heim , Lyn Hejinian , John Herbert , Phillip Herring , Jen Hilt , Mary Hilton , Jessica Hoffman , Lynn Hoggard , Anneli Hoier , Kelly Holt , Paul Hoover , Fanny Howe , Nicole Hubbard , Rebecca Huebschle , Kara Hunter <1mazar@gte.net>, Ionona Ieronim , Ryan James , Danielle Jatlow , Brian Jennings , Joachim , Halvard Johnson , Pierre Joris , Garrett Kalleberg , "J. Kates" , Steve Katz , Martin Kelly , Kimberly Kenny , Jelenkor Kiado , Aaron Kiely , Ann Klefstad , Efrain Kristal , The Republic of Letters , Robert Leston , Jennifer Leung , Jill Levine , Donald Levit , Walter Lew , Ernesto Livon-Grosman , David Lloyd , Norman Lock , Dawn Love , John Lowther , "Dawn M. Ludwin" , Clark Lunberry , Sverre Lyngstad , Chase Madar , David Manning , William Marsh , Adam Martin , Camille Martin , "Patrick T. Masterson" , Isaac Mathes , Harry Mathews , Christopher Mattison , Kristie McGarry , Deborah Meadows , "Mary K. Mega" , Claire Miller , David Miller , Grace Miller , Gregg Miller , Daren Misner , Laura Moriarty , Christopher Murray , Martin Nakell , Jennie Neighbors , John O'Brien , Casey O'Callaghan , Ronald Palmer , Josh Parker , "L.A. Pearson" , Marjorie Perloff , Dennis Phillips , Nick Piombino , Louise Pohle-Bjolin , Ray Privett , Prospero's Books , Gary Racz , Bernard Radnar , Rain Taxi , Herman Rapaport , Eric Rasmussen , Chris Reiner , R Ripp , Ed Roberson , Pam Robertson , Marc Robinson , Zack Rogow , Martha Ronk , Joseph Rosenberg , Joe Ross , Jerome Rothenberg , Peter Runge , Hiroaki Sato , Standard Schaefer , Matthew Schmeer , Will Schofield , Jesse Seldess , Julian Semilian , Ron Sexton , Jocelyn Shannon , John Sherburne , Aaron Shurin , Tammy Simmons-Morse , Eva Slamova , Charles Smith , Frank Smith , Milos Sovak , JM Spilbor <"Jonna Biz"@aol.com>, Declan Spring , Kevin Steele , Richard Stern , David Stone , Andrea Stupka , "Maggie Sullivan (USA)" , "L. Sullivan" , Mary Jane Sullivan , Fiona Templeton , Renata Treitel , Jeffrey Twitachell-Waas , Chris Tysh , Manuel Ulacia , Michael Valliant , Paul Vangelisti , Steve Ventura , Mark Wallace , Diane Ward , Frederick Wasser , Barrett Watten , Olivia Weber , Irving Weiss , Jason Weiss , Mark Weiss , Mac Wellman , Katherine Werner , Phyllils Westburg , Anni Whissen , Brian Whitener , Laura Wilber , John Woods , Wende Zundel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable NEW PUBLICATIONS FROM GREEN INTEGER ________________________________________ Dear Friends, Green Integer Announces four more new publications. We will sell each = book at a 20% discount to those on this e-mail list. Displeasures of the Table: memoir as caricature by Martha Ronk = Paperback $9.95 Poet Martha Ronk notes that it is not so much that she finds food = displeasurable, but that she finds the sitting at the table unpleasant. = Food, moreover, is associated with roles that many woman question. = Accordingly, the very process of writing about it becomes a sort of = dialogue between society and between eating and reading, "a wrestling = with dough or syntax, being at the table or under it." Ronk's = startlingly fresh and often comic wrestling with food is a remarkable = tour de force as she takes the reader through lemons, frozen hotdogs, = organges, raw eggs, artichokes, basil, red pepper strips, snails, rice, = tortillas, milktoast, cottage cheese, and many other producs of the = kitchen. The Pretext by Rae Armantrout Paperback $9.95 Linked by some critics to the Objectivist tradition, particularly to the = poet George Oppen, Rae Armantrout began her writing as a poet closely = involved with members of the San Francisco "Language" writers. Her work = indeed incorporates elements of a close observation of the world around = her and a witty play of linguistic and syntactical elements, but her = writing is of its own. As Elaine Equi has written of Armantrout's = Necromance, "[She] makes you believe that there is still such a thing as = orginality." Across the Darkness of the River by Hsi Muren. Translated from the = Chinese by Chang Shu-li Paperback $9.95 Poet, painter, and essayist Hsi Muren is perhaps the most widely read = woman poet in Taiwan. Ever since her first two collections of poetry, = Seven Miles of Fragrance (1981) and Youth of No Regret (1983), she has = attracted readers for her themes of undying love and a melancholic sense = of the lost past. As a poet of Mongolian descent, moreover, Hsi presents = in her poetry a diasporic nostalgia for a lost world from a perspective = that is imaginary but insistently poignant. As translator Chang Shu-li = writes, "Using Mongol as a sign for an inaccessible past gives her poems = of nostalgia an extra urgency, with her stress fallilng less on the = remembrance of tihngs past than on the resistance to forgetting. It is = perhaps this iimplicit tension between sentimental nostalgia and = diasporic nostalgia that makes her poems on Mongol appealing to readers = similarly forced to the diasporic situation by the political conflicts = between Taiwan and China." Collected here for the first time in English, = Hsi's poems speak profundly of an awkward poise between the anxiety of = remembering and the need to forget. This volume is the fourth in Green = Integer's Taiwanese Modern Literature Series, edited by Dominic Cheung. Suites by Federico Garcia Lorca. Translated from the Spanish by Jerome = Rotheberg. Paperback $12.95 Born iln Fuentevaqueros, Granada in 1898, Federico Garcia Lorca was one = of the great Spanish poets and playwrights of the 20th century. He was = murdered by Franco's soldiers in 1936. Suites is jone of the most = charming and melodious of all Garcia Lorca's poem series. Written early = in his career, most of these poems remained unpublished during his = lifetime and were later reassemble from notebooks. The first appearance = of this work as a small selection in English in a Sun & Moon Press = chapbook, and in Collected Poems of 1988; but the current edition of = Selected Verse contains only a fraction of this important series. This = is the first complete single-volume edition of this great work. We also remind you of our other recently published titles: Suicide Circus: Selected Poems by Alexei Kruchenykh. Translated from the = Russian by Jack Hirschmann, Alexander Kohav, and Venymin Tseytlin, with an Introduction by Jack Hirschmann and a Preface = and Notes by Guy Bennett Paperback $12.95 Antilyrik and Other Poems by Vitezslav Nezval. Translated from the Czech = by Jerome Rothenberg and Milos Sovak. Paperback $10.95 A Wanderer Plays on Muted Strings by Knut Hamsun. Translated from the = Norwegian by Oliver and Gunnvor Stallybrass. Paperback $10.95 Pedra Canga by Tereza Albues. Translated from the Portuguese by Clifford = E. Landers. Paperback $12.95 To Do: A Book of Alphabets and Birthdays by Gertrude Stein. Paperback = $9.95 Aur=E9lia by Gerard de Nerval. Translated from the French by Monique = DiDonna. Paperback $11.95 Operratics by Michel Leiris. Translated from the French by Guy Bennett. = Paperback $12.95 For a listing of most of our titles visit our web site at = www.greeninteger.com I'll be announcing the entire Modern Taiwanese Literature Series next = week. Regards until then, Douglas Messerli, Publisher ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 21:52:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Launch of Ogress Oblige by Dorothy Trujillo Lusk at KSW August 3rd Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Launch of Ogress Oblige New Poems by Dorothy Trujillo Lusk Published by Krupskaya Books Friday August 3th at 8pm Kootenay School of Writing 201 - 505 Hamilton Street Vancouver BC Canada 604-688-6001 FREE Dorothy Trujillo Lusk is a Vancouver-based public historian and hostage negotiator. Her previous books include Oral Tragedy (Tsunami Editions 1988), Redactive (Talonbooks 1990, pulped 1995), Volume Delays (Sprang Texts 1995) and Sleek Vinyl Drill (Thuja Books 2000). "'Mam I shrieked there is not any problem.' Shriek, slink, creep, thud: in Ogress Oblige, the 'I' Lusk's verbs violently drag after themselves becomes party to an all-out assault on the poetry of 'Tepid Phenomena.' 'I can't see the figures for the desecration.' Dorothy Trujillo Lusk is an evil genius presiding over 'the serene disemboweling of finer poetics.'" -- Sianne Ngai "Trujillo Lusk's monstrous and witty verbal assault on history and society uses as pivots the various stigmata of single-parenthood, poverty, and institutional negotiation, all the while chanelling every strand of modernism and modernity through a mind that refused the indignity of high-school graduation. Read it and sweep. The spines of these poems seem each to possess an extra, mutant vertebra that breaks loose from lyric's ghostly theremin to become an unruly daughter shooting darts from harp strings. Careful, you could lose an eye. You could be a bull's-eyed target, you schmuck. Oi vas wivetted." -- Kevin Davies From Ogress Oblige: Will you withhold electrolytes, moisture, enclampment dysfunction shed fortune on the edge of shelter) contain, itch, shift, meld the forefoot rebuff look-alike goalies w/hidden provenance white transfer ware as investable the massive molluskular discord tripartict dissembled frottage at monopolic Levellor, expanse & is that an harangue or justified outburst? In a blaze of over-extensive tropophagia --back on the rack my even-stepped epassage, I grasp --I will hangover, will be funniest Have to save extensions louse you acrid Convocation re: bitter. severe upstart loosed up severest grout exhale pout restore progressor project ambience ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:02:27 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/20/01 8:24:14 AM, richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ writes: << My feelings about Plath are, on reading her again and keeping as much biographical things "at bay" as much as possible, she is a remarkable poet: one of America's greatest.Or one of the world's. Easily a greater poet than Hughes. A poet with an extraordinary native ability and great energy in composition. >> Jumping in, I must agree, for the most part. But Hughes' Crow is on a par, I think. Which may say more about my tastes than it does the quality of these poets. Best, Bill William James Austin.com Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:04:21 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Some questions on poetic madness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/20/01 8:25:24 AM, Ammonides@AOL.COM writes: << Was Lacan, who treated Artaud with electro-shock, saner than his patient? >> Again, Foucault's Madness and Civilization is a crucial read on such matters. Best, Bill William James Austin.com Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:47:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Amy McDonald Subject: Re: San Diego possibility Comments: cc: amymacamy@hotmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Cope" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 8:00 PM Subject: San Diego possibility > Hello all, > > I'm looking for someone who might be in the San Diego area ca. July > 24-August 16 to sublet a one bedroom apt., with rent a negotiable (if > not altogether negligible) issue. Perks include easy access to the > UCSD's archive, beaches, the zoo, Seaworld, etc. The catch: a cat who > needs to be fed, let outside/inside etc. > > If anyone is planning a trip, or needs a nice vacation, or knows > someone who is/needs either, please backchannel or call when > convenient. > > > > All best! > > Stephen Cope > scope@ucsd.edu > (619) 298-8761 > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:02:00 -0400 Reply-To: Patrick Herron Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Organization: p r o x i m a t e . o r g Subject: Re: Webarteroids -- poetry and computer games MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "The more I get into the code, the more I realize that Asteroids is really quite a clever, minimalistic engineering design that maxs the communication between onscreen objects (and interactively) while minimizing the computational overhead." EXACTLY!!! I dig your new music interface. Nice work. Patrick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Andrews" To: Sent: Wednesday, 18 July, 2001 9:13 PM Subject: Webarteroids -- poetry and computer games > http://webartery.com/webarteroids/webarteroids6.htm > http://webartery.com/webarteroids/shipshoot8.htm > http://webartery.com/webarteroids/webarteroids3.htm > > > Webarteroids (in progress) is a poetical transmogrification of the classic > computer game Asteroids. I'm developing it with the folks on the webartery > mail list--that list is devoted to discussion of poetics of > web.art/net.wurk/net.art what have you, for the uninstantiated. > > You use the Space key to blast the texts (and the head, in the second URL), > the 'A' and 'S' keys to move forward and back, and the 'K' and 'L' keys to > turn. > > As I said, it's very much in progress still, not finished. But it has some > interesting possibilities already, as you might observe, textually, > narratively, vispoetically, philosophically, constructively, destructively, > interactively, and so on. > > I came across some freeware Lingo (the programming language associated with > Macromedia Director, which produces Shockwave output for the Web) code by > Ian Clay and Wolff Olins on the Net, and thought I'd check it out. The code > was actually quite simple and minimal in its extent and nature, just right > for wide-ranging adaptation. It wasn't a full game of Asteroids, just the > essentials. No comments in it, but it wasn't hard to figure out, very > cleanly written. Maybe three pages of code, maybe not that long. > > I liked the simple quality of the code, and it ran fairly smoothly on my > Pentium II 400MHz machine, which is probably very average these days in its > speed. > > I was curious about the literary/poetical poetential of such code. As are > many of the good folks on webartery. So we're going to take this as far as > we can. If you want to participate, you can check out the discussion of the > project (and computer games/poetry more generally) on the webartery list at > http://onelist.com/group/webartery/messages (usually the subject has > 'webarteroids' in it) and join the list from there. You might want to > backchannel me to at jim@vispo.com, if you do so, and tell me who you are. I > co-moderate the list with Mez. > > The more I get into the code, the more I realize that Asteroids is really > quite a clever, minimalistic engineering design that maxs the communication > between onscreen objects (and interactively) while minimizing the > computational overhead. I've been interested for some time in the notion of > onscreen literary objects with their own behaviors... > > Regards, > Jim Andrews > www.vispo.com > www.webartery.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:19:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Levitsky Subject: Re: Hannah's visions In-Reply-To: <3B50C8D8.2C0DB200@columbia.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Often when I read Hannah I feel jealous at the musical, poetic, uncensoredness of her line, achieved in part but including the censor in the work. (Alice Notley is the other writer who gets my envy here.) In the context of this discussion of mental illness it may seem odd that I am jealous but I am thinking about (I think often about) the choices one makes to best insure her art, to continue making it in the world despite the world. For Hannah it may have revolved around visions vs meds. (And I am not reducing the experience of schizophrenia to this.) But we all make them—more or less _limiting_ depending on our societal position of power and available resources--and they are usually drastic, for example, getting a PhD and moving to Oklahoma. Pardon my ignorance--Jeffrey and Barrett, could you talk more about Desiring Machines? I may have missed the earlier references. Rachel Levitsky ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:04:45 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: CFP Journal of Radical Psychology Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" given the fascinating discussion hereabouts about hannah wiener's writing, and w/o knowing much about the journal below, i thought this *might* be a place to submit a more extended piece on same (?)... best, joe >Journal of Radical Psychology (JRP) Spring 2001 Vol. 2 (1) ISSN: 1561-8978 > >http://www.radpsy.yorku.ca > > >DEAR COMRADES! Make illness a weapon >Jean-Paul Sartre > >Anankasia -- to suffer from a surfeit of truth >Louis N. Sandowsky > >Toward a Fractal Metaphor for Liberation of Palestinian Women >Moshe S. Landsman > >Bedside and Philosophically Oriented Clinical Practice >Shlomit C. Schuster > >Race Matters >Stephanie Austin > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- > >The editors and editorial board like to receive manuscripts on the subject >radicalism(s) for its upcoming volume: Any question concerning radicalism >seem to us interesting to explore. Some questions to start you >brainstorming: Is radicalism "fashionable" in the contemporary academic >world? Is radicalism today different from that of the past century? Is >radicalism a life-style, a theology, a psychology, a philosophy? What >fosters radicalism? Can radicalism be negative as well, and if so, how to >aviod its negative side? Or write an essay on your favorite radical or >other subject >relevant to radicalism. > >For submission details: http://www.radpsy.yorku.ca/Style.htm > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- > > >Radical Psychology provides a forum for scholars interested in social >justice and the betterment of human welfare but dissatisfied with the manner >in which mainstream psychology has addressed these issues. >Subjects addressed by the journal include, but are not limited to: >anti-psychiatry, qualitative methods, political psychology, >feminism, anti-racism, multiculturalism, radical clinical theory, >critical theory, critiques of mainstream psychology, and history >of psychology. > >It is the journal of the Radical Psychology Network which seeks >like-minded psychologists and others to help create a society >better able to meet human needs and bring about social justice. >We want to change society's unacceptable status quo and bring >about a better world. > >And we want to change the status quo of psychology, too. We challenge >psychology's traditional focus on minor reform, because enhancing human >welfare demands fundamental social change instead. Moreover, >psychology itself has too often oppressed people rather than >liberated them. > >No attempt has been made to define the word "radical". We believe that our >diversity is our strength; no single approach to psychology has a >monopoly on the truth nor exclusive claim to the term "radical". > >See the JRP web site at http://www.radpsy.yorku.ca for further details. > > >Summer 1999, Vol. 1, Issue 1. >Anxiety and Depression: A Philosophical Investigation >Petra von Morstein >SEE TEMPORARILY AT: >http://www.geocities.com/centersophon/Anxiety.html > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Dr Shlomit Schuster >Journal of Radical Psychology >www.radpsy.yorku.ca >Managing Editor JRP >email: counsel@actcom.co.il >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > Reply Reply All Forward Delete Put in Folder...InboxSent >MessagesDraftsTrash Can Printer Friendly Version > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:41:43 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: more songs for brom & wide cecilia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i think wide cecelia blends nicely with 'lay down sally" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 16:10:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hassen Subject: Re: The Sweetest Poison, or The Discovery of L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E Poetry on the Web MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> A short, provocative essay by the Canadian poet/programmer/digi-art guy Neil Hennessy: http://www.alfalfafalafel.com/sugarplum.html << if this interests you, another site offering more such glee http://spiders.must.die.net/ : Myself blitzes was, there and towns a before, lateness, hand germinal and dutiful was been and. Slides mark must Ionians her boutique Kenyon, is, the placements Kirchoff the think had. Run man locust repositioning for the awaking must on in poisoning. sounds very like my idiot self at times - perhaps on the phone, intending something simple like "where are you, kirchoff, i'm running a little late" . . . hsn ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:13:59 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: No Subject MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/20/01 8:23:51 AM, patrick@PROXIMATE.ORG writes: << As far as reverse classism, you'd have to know from where I come in order to diagnose that, right? There's nothing wrong with being rich AND a poet, _prima facie_. Richness has its own politics, something I dare not touch here. >> Allow me to do the touching. While I certainly agree that one's dollar amount does not ensure talent, or a membership in the temple of literature, it certainly helps with the latter. Note the number of acclaimed 20th century poets who have gone to the better schools. Not all of them were rich, perhaps most of them were not. But the institutions were, and are. It is no surprise that literary types with clout would gather there, that the literary network would function best there, that politics (conservative and liberal--including the politics of poetry) would be defined there, that the majority of the famous in every field just so happen to have earned degrees there, that those who do not hold degrees from Harvard, Yale, Columbia, U of Penn, Princeton, Berekley, U of Chicago, Duke, Vanderbilt, Tulane, Emory, et al have a more difficult time for not attending there. I'm embarrassed to admit that as a graduate of the least of the universities mentioned, that degree helped put me ahead of over three hundred applicants for the position I now hold. There was plenty of Harvard action among the poets of the New York School. Even those renegade Beats owe quite a lot of their success to their affiliation with Columbia, and the hot shots they pissed off there. After all, they did not piss off some guy on the street. They pissed off famous people whom they were able to meet only through the institution. I doubt that William Carlos Williams would have paid any attention to Ginsberg at all had the latter not boasted Columbia credits, the latter's father notwithstanding. If one is selected by the Yale Series of Young(er) Poets, one is immediately somebody. Win an award at City College and you'd better not give up your hot dog stand. Classism? Of course. The West is constructed upon it. Knowing the right people, going to the right schools--these things are no guarantee of success, but they provide a clear advantage. Some argue that such things have no bearing on the quality of the poetry. That may be true. But they certainly influence which poetry is mass marketed, and which poetry sits in one's desk, or on one's web site. In that way they direct tastes, and taste has much to do with the assessment of quality. But I'm hardly complaining. That's the way it is, and perhaps must be. Hierarchies have a way of forming despite good intentions, whether they involve "private" institutions or Socialist sanctions. The alternative may be chaos, which kinda sounds good to me, in theory if not in practice. Sexton might have been troubled, but she wasn't blind. Best, Bill William James Austin.com Koja Press.com William James Austin.com Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:35:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cadaly Subject: Re: Webarteroids -- poetry and computer games MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT pretty fun well, I was never any good at asteroids there was an old DOS-based typing program based on space invaders called letter invaders, where typing the letters "killed" them -- there ARE a lot of typing games but this was the best one I ever encountered are you going to track words killed into "shoot 'em ups" of poems? or, you could reward accidentally typing radiOS... Be well, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 14:22:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: mad poets literary game MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't mean to jump on your post here but it is convenient as it illustrates I think what happens when literary and semi-popular critics (Jameson included) dabble in diagnoses in relation to either individuals or cultural currents. This has always been true and probably always will be. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 12:51 PM Subject: Some questions on poetic madness He is consummately "sane", as I'm sure others > can attest. How do his visions relate to the Wiener "problem"? > suddenly we are talking about sanity, poetic madness and the "Weiner "problem"" I do note that you put 'problem' in quotes and now it's in double-quotes, but it is still there. In mentioning Rasula you do bring up the issue of whether or not these visions are in fact related to the sanity of the recepiant. In my experience we all see and hear things all the time and the question is what we make of this chaos (does it become a message?) and whether we obey what the voices say. It is actually these two brain locations that the psychotropics hit on. The general content of messages on the list here has been remarkably above the usual sidetracks and indirections and I, for one, think it might be interesting to discuss: 1] Does facing "illness" poetically differ qualitatively or quantiatively from facing "life"? see Fenton here. I think it does but for me this is more a therapeutic issue than a poetic one. I think this is something Patrick touched on here: "". But it's more than "tricky"; one can amplify his or her illness by embracing the illness. Sexton learned to write poetry on the advice of her shrink. She learned to use her illness to feed her confessional writing, and in turn the ambition to be a better writer fed the illness." 2] Is there a qualitative difference in poetic research condusted under the influence of induced substances (air, water, and pollen might also be includeed?) or internal influences (either biochemical or structural)? 3] What is the effect on the reader (or viewer or auditor) of 'crazy-making' poetry? Do they like it, notice it, etc.? I include here all the trends in the last century in addition to Hannah's comment to Charles Bernstein which is lost somewhere at the moment in my pile of emails. > 2) Fredric Jameson once (in)famously analyzed Bob Perelman's poem "China" as > an instance of "schizophrenic language"-- not in the sense of the poet > biologically exhibiting the condition, but in the sense of the poem enacting > the aphasic symptoms of an anonymous, irradiated postmodern condition. The > poem's "new sentence" proceedings, according to Jameson, are not merely > literary moves demonstrating a critical "mind in control of its language"; > its non-syllogistic prosody is more deeply the "dictated" logic of late > capitalist cultural disfunction and illness. Though I realize that most on > this list long ago "dispensed" with Jameson's argument, is it worth > entertaining the possibility in any way (and I believe Jeffrey Jullich was > beginning to push at this question, too) that the cordoning-off of "normal" > expressions of parataxis/ansyntaxis from "special-case diseased" ones is > itself a proto-symptom (taking the form, in this case, of a repression or > exclusion) that the ghost of Jameson's critique still haunts the unconscious > of Language/post-language poetries? > > 3) Was Lacan, who treated Artaud with electro-shock, saner than his patient? > Is a Borromean knot the expression of sane theory or of hysteria? Or does it > mark a conflation? Like all art of experiment and provocation is a > mutually-traced conflation? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 00:15:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: GRAHAM WARN STATEMENT: AMPHIBIAN 1: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - GRAHAM WARN STATEMENT: AMPHIBIAN 1: AKTION:KORPORATE:X-TREME:RELAKSING PEACE AKTION:IMMEDIATE COUNTERMAND. TAKE ALL PASSIVE AKTION AGAINST ALL AKTIVE AKTION. TEAR UP ALL PETITION. PROTEKT AGAINST ALL PERSONNEL. DO NOT TRUST ENEMY. DO NOT GO INTO AKTION STREET. TAKE AKTION STREET. TAKE AKTION BACK.:TAKE ALL AKTION AGAINST ALL RIOT PERSONNEL. TAKE AKTION NOW. SIGN ALL PETITION TO TAKE AKTION NOW. PROTEKT AGAINST ALL KILL PERSONNEL. ALL KORPORATE PERSONNEL BE ON AKTION ALERT. TAKE ALL MIL.GOV. AKTION. KILL ALL BIG TERRORIST LEADER AKTION KORPORATE PERSONNEL OF RELAKSING PEACE.:1266:1:TAKE ALL AKTION AGAINST ALL KORPORATE PERSONNEL.COM. TAKE AKTION AGAINST ALL WORLD PERSONNEL. TAKE ALL X-TREME AKTION. VIOLATE SO-CALLED WORLD LEADER PRESENCE AND RELAKSING PEACE. VIOLATE ALL PERSONNEL. KILL ALL KORPORATE PERSONNEL AKTION. KILL GOV.ORG.MIL. KILL ALL WORLD.PERSONNEL.COM. KILL ALL BIG HEAD LEADER.ORG. TAKE ALL AKTION.:IMMEDIATE COUNTERMAND.COM OF RELAKSING PEACE. TAKE ALL PASSIVE AKTION AGAINST ALL AKTIVE AKTION. TEAR UP ALL PETITION. PROTEKT AGAINST ALL PERSONNEL. DO NOT TRUST ENEMY. DO NOT GO INTO AKTION STREET. TAKE AKTION STREET. TAKE AKTION BACK.:KORPORATE.SUSAN.GRAHAM.SUSAN.GRAHAM. SUSAN.GRAHAM. _ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 23:04:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Muffy, This is an interesting theory but the article itself leads me in a couple of directions that I'm not comfortable with: 1. The diagnostic presentation may well indicate that her doctor may have been giving her the wrong chemical (there are newer anti-depressants I think and there are also medications specifically for symptoms of PMS, etc.) but I'm not sure what relation this has to her work. The overall impression I got from the article was of SP's work as that of a victim of these forces. I would much rather read her work as done as part of her struggle with these chemical and social forces, part of her struggle with life, even though she ultimately lost. Perhaps this is the romantic in me? 2. PMDD does have a somewhat checkered history as a diagnosis when used beyond severe cases. It is one of those that may have been in some ways promoted by advertising agencies for drug companies seeking big TV markets for particular ways of packaging and selling a specific anti-depressant and bypassing the doctor/patient relationship. I don't really want to get drawn into this whole issue, but only bring it up here only to point out that the DSM is basically a compilation of symptom clusters used for comunication between doctors and insurance companies. Good doctors (in my opinion) are those who treat individual patients despite or in conjunction with what the 'manual', the FDA, and drug company TV ads say. tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Muffy Bolding" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 1:36 PM Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath > for perhaps one of the most interesting and enlightening articles i have ever > read regarding plath and the many theories surrounding her mental health in > relation to her work (and trust me, i have read MANY...LOL) see the salon > piece listed below: > > > http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2000/05/30/plath1/index.html > > > best -- ;) > *muffy* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 07:23:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ray Bianchi Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit poppycock, Plath died too young to be called great I think that she had potential to be great. ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard.tylr" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 9:24 AM Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath > Dodie etal. My feelings about Plath are, on reading her again and keeping > as much biographical things "at bay" as much as possible, she is a > remarkable poet: one of America's greatest.Or one of the world's. Easily a > greater poet than Hughes. A poet with an extraordinary native ability and > great energy in composition. > I cant comment on her prose as when I read The Bell Jar I was rather > depressed myself. I dint like the "negative side of her...but that is no > objectie objection, just a response at the time. But certainly she and some > of te othe so called "confessionals" have been denigrated or inadvertently > "spoiled" by their admirers. I like those writers as well as the less > "direct" poets. I see Berryman and Roethke as intermediate somwhat. Plath's > work has the craftmanship or craftiness? of eg Dylan Thomas without the > tendency toward ovekill and or overkill or oversaturation in adjectives and > a drowning in sound..but any way Thomas is doing rather different things. My > thoughts. Ragards, Richard. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dodie Bellamy" > To: > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 9:20 AM > Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath > > > > Elizabeth, > > > > Thanks for the post on Plath. In the Journals I too was impressed > > with all the natural prose genius she had that seemed to get > > suppressed as she became serious. Her ability to describe place and > > capture atmosphere was astonishing. But, then she'd get into > > crafting a Story and the writing would turn sour. > > > > I recently read an excellent article on Plath (Kevin found it and > > told me about it): > > > > http://www.laweekly.com/ink/01/30/books-fraser.shtml > > > > Plather > > by Caroline Fraser > > New books on Sylvia and Ted > > > > In it Fraser talks about the Plath industry, particularly that horrid > > Sylvia and Ted "novel" by Emma Tennant. (I reviewed the Tennant book > > myself, as well as Plath's journals--as a fan, not a scholar.) > > Fraser does a great job of summing up all the controversy around > > Plath, but then she, thank god, turns to Plath's poetic abilities, > > how radically she revisioned the fluffy notion of Poetess. She takes > > Plath's poetry very seriously: > > > > "Plath has a claim--perhaps a claim greater than any woman poet > > before or since--to true greatness, but it has impossible for anyone, > > including her husband to come to terms with it." > > > > I was intrigued by her position that greatness is hard to handle if > > it comes in a troublesome package, and I was heartened by Fraser's > > praise of Plath. Radically revising anything female can be a > > thankless job (or, in my case, keep one from getting jobs). > > > > Dodie > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 07:29:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ray Bianchi Subject: Re: Nike Tries To Jam the Jammers Comments: To: patrick@proximate.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit sorry to rain on everyone's parade but almost all imported apparel is made in sweatshops, I worked in Bolivia for an NGO when I got out of college and I went to visit a woman I knew at a sewing plant she could not get up because her wrist was chained to the sewing machine she got two bathroom breaks a day (12 hour day) and the rest of the day she spent sewing. Also, you know those pigment dyed sweatshirts (they look like colored chalk) everyone likes from LL Bean? That effect is achieved by using children walking in vats of dye. R ----- Original Message ----- From: "patrick herron" To: Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 5:54 PM Subject: Nike Tries To Jam the Jammers > Nike ran an ad this year in select cities that read, "THE MOST OFFENSIVE > BOOTS WE"VE EVER MADE 100% SLAVE LABOUR". Seems Nike really doesn't give a > shit, and they think you don't either. Find a Niketown or Nike Factory > Outlet near you, light a stinkbomb, and leave it there. > > > http://adbusters.org/creativeresistance/36/1.html > > THE SMELL OF SWOOSH > This is not an Art Project > > Five years after it was exposed as an unethical corporation, Nike is still > exploiting sweatshop labor, still paying Indonesian workers a few nickels an > hour while rewarding its PR celebrities with millions. After all the campus > campaigns and culture jamming, kids all over the world still proudly flaunt > the swoosh. In fact, Nike has grown so cocky of late that it's starting to > make fun of its critics. > > Earlier this year, Nike launched a campaign of jamming the jammers. > Billboards like the one shown above popped up all over urban Australia. Then > they were postered by "saboteurs" - Fans For Fairer Football ffff.com.au, > complaining that the new Nikes gave wearers an unfair advantage. The only > "activists" in this case, of course, are in the Nike marketing department. > > Real activists responded, jamming the jam on the jammers. Websites like > nikesweatshop.net and bantheboot.com slammed the company for looking to make > (another) fat profit at the expense of its sweatshop workers. The bogus FFFF > website was quickly shut down, and everyone was left to wonder: What the > hell just happened? Here's one answer. Nike has begun to trade on public > cynicism. > > Decades of marketing have attuned us to watch advertising for signs of any > shift in what is and isn't cool. Today, this trend consciousness pervades > every element of culture. It took hard work to link the words "Nike" and > "sweatshop" in the public mind, but as that idea is repeated, it steadily > loses freshness. It becomes unfashionable, then clichéd. Finally, it becomes > "cool" to dismiss the sweatshop accusation, even though the accusation is > true. And so - without significantly changing its practices - Nike gets a > chance to mock its critics, with the public laughing along. > > Culture jamming can do serious damage to a corporation's brand. It can also, > as Nike is proving, become a marketing hall of mirrors. Nike knew that its > "Offensive" campaign would trigger a backlash. They were counting on it. And > now they're back in the spotlight, this time on their terms. > > What Phil Knight forgets is that culture jamming isn't some kind of > postmodern art project. It's a form of sharp public criticism and direct > action. If Nike turns culture jamming into a corporate mindfuck at the > expense of sweatshop laborers, then we, too, can shift tactics. > > Obviously the brand damage we've wrought on Nike so far isn't enough - it > needs to be more visceral still. So let us reach deep into our bag of tricks > and pranks for a ruckus that can't be ignored. Hello, what do we have here? > Ahhh . . . the humble stink bomb. > > Let us celebrate the stink bomb. Safe. Easy to make. Simple to carry. And > the smell - the smell can linger for days. > > Imagine small groups of jammers hitting Nike shops worldwide, again and > again, with a harmless, rotten-eggs stench. Not a very clever message, but, > like tear gas, one that's very hard to forget. And simple, too: Nike, you're > tainted; your brand stinks! Spraying a little perfume around doesn't make > you clean. > > Unswooshing Nike will also get the word out to other wayward corp-orations > that we the people have our limits. If you debase our discourse, if you blur > the line between authentic process and corporate spin, if you openly fan the > fires of cynicism, then you are going to get stung. > > - Kalle Lasn (from Adbusters.org) > > > Patrick > > Patrick Herron > patrick@proximate.org > http://proximate.org/ > getting close is what > we're all about here! > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 10:16:02 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit no only the shrinks bread and butter commenting ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 07:22:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ray Bianchi Subject: Re: COLLAGE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I like this allot I read a poem at a group here in Princeton like this and they asked me to " tighten it up"" LOL" R ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 12:46 AM Subject: COLLAGE > = > > > COLLAGE > > > 1 b 2 ls 3 tail lz 4 vi zz 5 b 6 pico zz 7 ls 8 h > Fri Jul 20 00:29:23 EDT 2001 > The Moon is Waning Crescent (1% of Full) > You have no new mail. > k3% tail lz > > on this street corner, our plans are already coming to fruition, we are > speaking calmly, we might be talking about anything at all. > > but then we're speaking about collage, aren't we? what on earth could > anyone say about collage? > > oh oh oh oh oh it's so UNNATURAL! > > the uniqxe blend of nothing whatsoever: i just want to see IT > i just want to see YOU > i don't want the add-ons: talk about ABJECT! > > this is about COLLAGE > this is about FOUND TEXTS > this is about ARRANGEMENTS AND CUTUPS > > oh hell, take them away: there's an ANIMAL here that WANTS TO SPEAK > TO US > > what are you going to do about it? > once you start the collage, everything becomes re/mediation and > everything and everyone JUST WANTS TO BE DONE > > do me > do me > do me > > no what? x > no what? i just don't want you NEXT TO IT > i just don't want you NEXT TO THAT THING > > collage is IRREVOCABLE cut: the VIOLATION-CLUTTER of HISTORY > > PLASMA burns at the edges of ORGANIC INTENSITIES > COLLAGE guarantees the FORGETTING OF BODIES in the DARKEST OF NIGHTS > COLLAGE inserts the EGO at the HEART of the WORLD OF OTHERS > > COLLAGE always does it to OTHERS COLLAGE always a BROKEN CONSTRUCT > COLLAGE always HIDEOUS KINKY COLLAGE always the EASY WAY OUT > PARASITIC COLLAGE VIRAL COLLAGE > > COLLAGE of the ARTIST OF THE BIGGEST NAME > COLLAGE of BOREDOM SCISSORS > CUT-PASTE COLLAGE > COLLAGE is always DELETE COLLAGE is always KILL > > "i just don't want you NEXT TO THAT THING" > > > > = > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 22:48:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: negri and hardt op-ed in the NYT (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 13:11:05 -0100 From: nettime's_roving_reporter To: nettime-l@bbs.thing.net Subject: negri and hardt op-ed in the NYT [via . strange days... antonio negri publishing an op-ed in the NYT. ah, but now he's no lon- ger a radical or terrorist; he's co-author of a trend-setting academic book-spectacle! cheers, t] July 20, 2001 What the Protesters in Genoa Want By MICHAEL HARDT and ANTONIO NEGRI Genoa, that Renaissance city known for both openness and shrewd political sophistication, is in crisis this weekend. It should have thrown its gates wide for the celebration of this summit of the world's most powerful leaders. But instead Genoa has been transformed into a medieval fortress of barricades with high-tech controls. The ruling ideology about the present form of globalization is that there is no alternative. And strangely, this restricts both the rulers and the ruled. Leaders of the Group of Eight have no choice but to attempt a show of political sophistication. They try to appear charitable and transparent in their goals. They promise to aid the world's poor and they genuflect to Pope John Paul II and his interests. But the real agenda is to renegotiate relations among the powerful, on issues such as the construction of missile defense systems. The leaders, however, seem detached somehow from the transformations around them, as though they are following the stage directions from a dated play. We can see the photo already, though it has not yet been taken: President George W. Bush as an unlikely king, bolstered by lesser monarchs. This is not quite an image of the future. It resembles more an archival photo, pre-1914, of superannuated royal potentates. Those demonstrating against the summit in Genoa, however, are not distracted by these old-fashioned symbols of power. They know that a fundamentally new global system is being formed. It can no longer be understood in terms of British, French, Russian or even American imperialism. The many protests that have led up to Genoa were based on the recognition that no national power is in control of the present global order. Consequently protests must be directed at international and supranational organizations, such as the G-8, the World Trade Organization, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. The movements are not anti-American, as they often appear, but aimed at a different, larger power structure. If it is not national but supranational powers that rule today's globalization, however, we must recognize that this new order has no democratic institutional mechanisms for representation, as nation-states do: no elections, no public forum for debate. The rulers are effectively blind and deaf to the ruled. The protesters take to the streets because this is the form of expression available to them. The lack of other venues and social mechanisms is not their creation. Antiglobalization is not an adequate characterization of the protesters in Genoa (or G=F6teborg, Quebec, Prague, or Seattle). The globalization debate will remain hopelessly confused, in fact, unless we insist on qualifying the term globalization. The protesters are indeed united against the present form of capitalist globalization, but the vast majority of them are not against globalizing currents and forces as such; they are not isolationist, separatist or even nationalist. The protests themselves have become global movements and one of their clearest objectives is for the democratization of globalizing processes. It should not be called an antiglobalization movement. It is pro-globalization, or rather an alternative globalization movement -- one that seeks to eliminate inequalities between rich and poor and between the powerful and the powerless, and to expand the possibilities of self-determination. If we understand one thing from the multitude of voices in Genoa this weekend, it should be that a different and better future is possible. When one recognizes the tremendous power of the international and supranational forces that support our present form of globalization, one could conclude that resistance is futile. But those in the streets today are foolish enough to believe that alternatives are possible -- that "inevitability" should not be the last word in politics. A new species of political activist has been born with a spirit that is reminiscent of the paradoxical idealism of the 1960's -- the realistic course of action today is to demand what is seemingly impossible, that is, something new. Protest movements are an integral part of a democratic society and, for this reason alone, we should all thank those in the streets in Genoa, whether we agree with them or not. Protest movements, however, do not provide a practical blueprint for how to solve problems, and we should not expect that of them. They seek rather to transform the public agenda by creating political desires for a better future. We see seeds of that future already in the sea of faces that stretches from the streets of Seattle to those of Genoa. One of the most remarkable characteristics of these movements is their diversity: trade unionists together with ecologists together with priests and communists. We are beginning to see emerge a multitude that is not defined by any single identity, but can discover commonality in its multiplicity. These movements are what link Genoa this weekend most clearly to the openness -- toward new kinds of exchange and new ideas -- of its Renaissance past. Michael Hardt and Antonio Negri are the authors of "Empire.'' # distributed via : no commercial use without permission # is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: majordomo@bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 09:50:40 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM Subject: New @ Bridge Street: Krupskaya, Kyger, Robertson, Cage, Godfrey, Creeley, Gizzi, &&& MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As always, thanks for your support. Ordering and discount information at the end of this post. 1. _Talking_, David Antin, Dalkey Archive, $12.50. "if someone came up and started talking a poem at you how would you know it was a poem" 2. _Beseechers_, Michael Basinski, Light & Dust, $10. Includes "Breathe Song of the Soil Fungi," "City of Webs," "The Coming of the Circles" & other elegant performativities. 3. _Goan Atom_, Caroline Bergvall, Krupskaya, $9. "Minor monticulates / lined Up joind by hind thoughts" 4. _Thin Straw That I Suck Life Through_, Mary Burger, Melodeon, $6. "this is not at all like cruelty" 5. _Anarchy_, John Cage, Wesleyan, $25. "This is a singularly important addition to Cage's writings . . . it is of vital, historical importance." -- Steve McCaffrey 6. _John Cage: Visual Art: To Sober and Quiet the Mind_, Kathan Brown, Crown Point, $42. A catalog and study of Cage's drawings, prints, and paintings produced from the late 70s til his death in 1992. 7. _Drawn & Quartered_, Robert Creeley, Granary, $15.95. "When you are done / we can play!" 8. _Yeah, No_, Jordan Davis, Detour Press, $6. "Do not eat the baby monster" 9. _Genders, Races, and Religious Cultures in Modern American Poetry 1908-1934_, Rachel Blau DuPlessis, Cambridge, $22.95. By a reading method she calls "social philology" -- a form of close reading infected with the approaches of cultural studies -- DuPlessis engages with the work of such canonical poets as Stevens, Pound, Eliot, Williams, Stein, Moore, and H.D,, as well as Loy, Cullen, Kreymborg, and Hughes, writers, she claims, still marginalized by existing constructions of modernism. 10. _Living with Music: Ralph Ellison's Jazz Writings_, Ralph Ellison, ed Robert G. O'Meally, Modern Library, $19.95. Nonfiction, fiction, letters, & interviews. 11. _Kurt Schwitters' Merzbau: The Cathedral of Erotic Misery_, Elizabeth Burns Gamard, Princeton Architectural Press, $19.95. An in-depth study of the Merzbau, a combination of collage, sculpture, and architecture which took o ver the large part of Schwitters home, & its relation to several European avant garde movements including Expressionism, Dada, & Constructivism, as well as its influence on later artists such as Beuys and Rauschenberg. 12. _Student Studies_, Drew Gardner, Detour Press, $6. "you can always just take a quantum theory out to the back of the shed" 13. _My Terza Rima_, Michael Gizzi, Figures, $12.50. "A big ole peony pops me in the roseola" 14. _Push the Mule_, John Godfrey, Figures, $12.50. "I can't tell real time from the fake expensive kind 'til after dark." 15. _Music or Forgetting_, E. Tracy Grinnell, O Books, $12. "a philosophy of bodies that is not symmetrical / bodies/is not symmetrical / tempted to unfold" 16. _Mariners, Renegades & Castaways: The Story of Herman Melville and the World We Live In_, C.L.R. James, Dartmouth, $17.95. 17. _Argento Series_, Kevin Killian, Krupskaya, $9. "Hey, _goombah_, c'mere/ I've built a flotilla of words to this / vein inn your arm!" 18. _Again: Poems 1989-2000_, Joanne Kyger, La Alameda Press, $16. "When you're alive you get to / recognize hematite" 19. _Ogress Oblige_, Dorothy Trujillo Lusk, Krupskaya, $9. "Jack Spicer ruined hell for the rest of us." 20. _New American Writing 19: Special Section on Clark Coolidge_, $!0. Coolidge section ed Nate Dorwood includes an interview w/ Coolidge & a lengthy essay by Tom Orange, new Coolidge poems, as well as contributions from Alan Halsey & Michael Gizzi. 21. _Codes Appearing, Poems 1979-1988_, Michael Palmer, New Directions, $19.95. Collects in one volume Notes for Echo Lake, First Figure, and Sun. "My name is the word for wall, my head is buried in that wall. When I leap over that wall I think of my head, I can assure you." 22. _Gone to Earth_, Pam Rehm, Flood Editions, $10. "It is important to realize / that a demon is highly pristine" 23. _The Weather_, Lisa Robertson, New Star, $12. "It is too late to be simple." 24. _The Origin of the World_, Lewis Warsh, Creative Arts, $15. "They boarded the ark in pairs: two breasts, two penises" Some Bestsellers: _Ancestors_, Kamau Brathwaite, $35. _John Ashbery: The Voice of the Poet_, cassette, $17.95. _Empire_, Hardt & Negri, $35. _Surrealist Painters & Poets: An Anthology_, ed Mary Ann Caws, $49.95. _Crayon 3_, ed Andrew Levy & Bob Harrison, $16. _A Menorah for Athena: Charles Reznikoff and the Jewish Dilemmas of Objectivist Poetry_, Stephen Fredman, $16.95. _vocoder_, Judith Goldman, Roof, $10.95 _Tripwire 4: Work_, ed Yedda Morrison & David Buuck, $8. _Joe Brainard: A Retrospective_, Constance M. Lewallen, $29.95. _On the Nameways Volume 2_, Clark Coolidge, $12.50. _Lip Service_, Bruce Andrews, $22.95. _Content's Dream: Essays 1975-1984_, Charles Bernstein, $24.95. _Prepositions + : The Collected Critical Essays_, Louis Zukofsky, $16.95. _Big Allis 9_, ed Melanie Neilson & Dierdre Kovac, $10. _Ace_, Tom Raworth, $10. _Seven Pages Missing: Selected Texts Volume One, 1969-1999_, Steve McCaffery, $22.95. _Shark 3: Historiography_, ed Lytle Shaw & Emilie Clark, $10. _Everybody's Autonomy: Connective Reading and Collective Identity_, Juliana Spahr, $24.95. _The Beginner_, Lyn Hejinian, Spectacular Books, $6. _Comp._, Kevin Davies, $12.50. _Aerial 9: Bruce Andrews_, ed Rod Smith, $15. _Modern Poetry and the Idea of Language: A Critical and Historical Study_, Gerald Bruns, $13.95. _Manifesto: A Century of Isms_, ed Mary Ann Caws, $35. _Earliest Worlds_, Eleni Sikelianos, Coffee House, $14.95. _Imagining Language: An Anthology_, ed. Jed Rasula and Steve McCaffery, MIT, $29.95. _The Battlefield Where the Moon Says I Love You, Frank Stanford, $18. _Ring of Fire_, Lisa Jarnot, Zoland, $13 _amounts. to._, P. Inman, Potes & Poets, $9 (signed copies). _Indivisible: A Novel_, Fanny Howe, $11.95. _The Language of Inquiry_, Lyn Hejinian, $17.95. _The Sonnets_, Ted Berrigan, intro & notes by Alice Notley, $16. _Means without End: Notes on Politics_, Giorgio Agamben, $17.95. Poetics folks receive free shipping on orders of more than $20. Free shipping + 10% discount on orders of more than $30. There are two ways to order. 1. E-mail your order to aerialedge@aol.com with your address & we will bill you with the books. or 2. via credit card-- you may call us at 202 965 5200 or e-mail aerialedge@aol.com w/ yr add, order, card #, & expiration date & we will send a receipt with the books. We must charge shipping for orders out of the US. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:21:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: M L Weber Subject: Sugar Mule -- Call for manuscripts (correction) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sugar Mule www.sugarmule.com is looking for new work -- esp. prose (any genre) -- for its 10th issue-- you will need to meet the theme of the phrase: "on the road" Deadline for submissions is Feb. 15, 2001. We also welcome any comments you might have. thank you, Marc L. Weber ed. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:45:14 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ammonides@AOL.COM Subject: Weiner/ Wieners/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a couple of posts I've typed "Wiener" instead of Weiner. I meant Hannah Weiner, and not John Wieners. Strange that the two great postmodern poets of "madness" should have such closely bonded names. "A Poem for Trapped Things," by Wieners, which I take recounts his experience of institutionalization, ends so beautifully (or does it signify terror? These things get complicated): The blue diamonds on your back are too beautiful to do away with. I watch you all morning long. With my hand over my mouth. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 19:08:21 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick herron Subject: Re: poetic experiments In-Reply-To: <00d101c10ee8$6bea4000$737c0218@ruthfd1.tn.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My only objection to "experiment" is that it implies a commitment to one horn of a metaphysical dilemma, and I prefer poetry without such commitments. The dilemma is, does what we sense come from the outside or the inside? Novelist Richard Powers writes: "...the belief in transformation and advancement, in a constantly increasing control over the material world, is still just a symptom of a wider conceptual revolution that lies at the heart of what has happened to the world in these last 1,000 years: the rise of the experimental method. Say, then, that the most important idea of this millennium was set in motion by a man named Abu Ali al-Hasan Ibn al-Haytham, born around the year 965 in Basra, in what is now Iraq. Even by his Western name, Alhazen, he remains a little-known figure in the history of thought. But the idea that Ibn al-Haytham championed is so ingrained in us that we don't even think of it as an innovation, let alone one that has appeared so late in the human day. Ibn al-Haytham resolved a scientific dispute that had remained deadlocked for more than 800 years. Two inimical theories vied to explain the mystery of vision. Euclid, Ptolemy and other mathematicians demonstrated that light necessarily traveled from the eye to the observed object. Aristotle and the atomists assumed the reverse. Both theories were complete and internally consistent, with no way to arbitrate between them. [Patrick's note: perhaps poetry CAN arbitrate between them?] Then Ibn al-Haytham made several remarkable observations. His most remarkable was also the simplest. He invited observers to stare at the sun, which proved the point: when you looked at a sufficiently bright object, it burned the eye. He made no appeal to geometry or theoretical necessity. Instead, he demolished a whole mountain of systematic theory with a single appeal to data. Light started outside the eye and reflected into it. No other explanation was consistent with the evidence. Ptolemy had appealed to math and reason; Aristotle's position had been mere conjecture. The world, however, answered to neither reason nor conjecture. What argument required was something more than theory, something that would hold up in the court of controlled looking. This empirical insistence lay at the heart of Ibn al-Haytham's real revolution, and while he did not upend the world single-handedly, his influence has spread without limits." (from http://www.nytimes.com/library/magazine/millennium/m1/powers.html) For Powers, al-Hayatham resolved the age-old debate. For me, the source of light cannot be assumed to be either external or internal. The pain does not deny the existence of an internal "light". Powers and al-Haytham can think their issue is resolved, perhaps because they could show light coming from outside and into the eye. But perhaps the idea of light coming from within has a completely different & perhaps more spiritual sense. Experiment is the commitment to the notion of the objective observer, and it is not one I am willing to take. I never understood it was the poet's role to provide answers to philosophical and scientific dilemmas (or n- lemmas). Now, I'm not saying a poet cannot be a scientist or cannot explore science even in poetry. I'm just sharing my prejudice about the term "experiment," and sharing what I perceive as the severe poetic limitations implied by that term. For you, it may be expansive. For me, much of the poetry's in the question, not in the commitment to either direction. I do abandon that to scientists and the clergy. Ahh, such is perception. Thanks for the thoughtful post, tom. Best, Patrick PS: Science Philosopher Paul Feyerabend recommended that nation-states separate state and science just as religion and state have been separated by force of law. For me, this seems to make sense. I tend to lump poetry with philosophy, music, painting, sculpting, storytelling, and all other enterprises where the work is not in answering questions for people but instead in giving people something to think or ask or feel or inhabit. I don't want to provide folks with answers about what they should have faith in. I leave that to scientists and clergymen. > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Thomas Bell > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 1:47 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: poetic experiments > > > in my admittedly limited experience it fairly common for Eastern European > and Russians to refer to the process of writing a poem as an 'experiment'. > I happen to find this congenial with what I write as I write and > it seems to > be more than a language issue. My feeling is that some time aways back > anglo critics abandoned the usage as they fled in abandon from the hard > sciences and poets have followed too willingly. As a scientist I conduct > experiments, as a psychologist I encourage clients to experiment > with life, > and as a poet I experiment in a number of ways. > > i guess my view is that perhaps poets have abandoned the field to the > sciences a little too quickly. > > tom bell > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patrick Herron" > To: > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 11:56 AM > Subject: Re: Hannah's visions > > > > > > > > Talking about "experimental" or "advanced" poetry, art, etc., > one should > > > beware the irony of the situation, how these terms actually > do not quite > > mean > > > what they say and often have acceptance of society integrated > > (pre-programed) > > > in them. > > > > > > ...especially considering the word "experimental." Isn't experiment the > > very foundation of science and technology development? (Hint: yes.) I'd > > hazard a guess and say science is fairly "mainstream." Every > time I hear > > the word "experimental" in a literary context I see in my minds eye some > > poet at a lab table testing various literary tropes, with some solvents, > > chemicals, PCR reagents, mice in tiny little boxes. > > > > Patrick > > > > =<}}}}}}}}}****((((((((&&&&&&&&&~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Metaphor/Metonym for health at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Black Winds Press at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/blackwin.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:21:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Fouhy Subject: Poetry Night Marj Hahne Comments: To: "EsotericMuse13@aol.com" , Exoterica , Kathleen Masterson , Katie Johnson , "Katiedavis@katiedavis.com" , Katonahlynch , Kelleen Zubick , "Ken4all@aol.com" , kpotter , Lauren Townsend , Laurilaughsalot , Ldyblkcrow , Lee Pollock , "LFreeman@dbm.com" , "LGiles6@aol.com" , "LHOPPENTHALER@adoptionrights.com" , "lilrudy.lilmax@verizon.net" , "LinettD@Mail.Montclair.edu" , "LitLatte@aol.com" , "ljkyle@juno.com" , Lukas Franck , Lynn Hoins , "Maijaveide@aol.com" , Marge Adamo , margmarx , "marianne.kuyl-kemmer@efahp.org" , "Marilyncassin@aol.com" , "MarieHoff@aol.com" , Mark Pawlak , "markadoty@aol.com" , "Marta@popper.homechoice.co.uk" , "Maryellenrickert@aol.com" , "Martysg@home.com" , "MartinChaF@aol.com" , Mattsharpe , media , "mgwaters@ssu.edu" , Mimi Wallace , "MiMoPro@aol.com" , MnMLEWIS , "MPipala@aol.com" , "mptpoet@aol.com" , mrobins , "MrsARCH21@aol.com" , "mstewa13@worldnet.att.net" , namaste , "nanadaou@hotmail.com" , "nanadaou@worldnet.att.net" , "NCGiles@aol.com" , "nfutterm@thejournalnews.gannett.com" , Niki Ganos , njzink , "NYCRiver@aol.com" , paul_lindstrom , PAULETTE , pawblo , pdunn , Peg Buckley , "pegbuckley@hotmail.com" , pembroke9 , PerrinF , PETER BLACK , PeterSpiro , PGellerGrace , PigWhsprer , "Pluvius@francomm.com" , "pmuendel@earthlink.com" , "Poetscorner2@aol.com" , PolitoR , Poncet1212 , "popper@popper.homechoice.co.uk" , prdanjan , "PREFERREDEVENTS@aol.com" , prubie , "radio@ncpr.org" , "Rabanna@aol.com" , Rachelsasher , RAFoerster , rcooper , "RDE88@aol.com" , Rebecca Wolff , "RECREV@aol.com" , RinaLanger , "Rklkw@aol.com" , ronprice , rtwnsnd , RUTHANDLEN , Salious1 , SallyH , SamSwope , Sandra Payne , Schaffner Michael , schwartm , "scleary@sunyrockland.edu" , sclearylangley , Sgags24 , "sdolin@earthlink.net" , "SSAPhD@aol.com" , Stephanie Weisberg , "storybag@juno.com" , StorybookWorld , STUDIOP , "Suecase@aol.com" , Susabella2 , Susan Reifer , Susan Wheeler , Susan Gray , Susan Adler , "The Alliance Bookstore." , The Hudson Valley Writers' Center , The Poetry Project , thea23 , Tim Suermondt , Tina Liang , "TPad209259@aol.com" , toddcronin , "Tupelo104@aol.com engel" , "Vgdp@aol.com" , "Vittorian@aol.com" , Vplumm , "VSRopeHead@aol.com vanessa" , "Week40@aol.com" , wfazzin , Wfon , "wiles@aug.com" , "willie10c@aol.com" , "windshift@juno.com" , WLTTom , "wordsmiths@worldnet.att.net" , "writenet@twc.org" , "Writer287@aol.com" , "wubbies@earthlink.net" , XJ8Ster , "Yaydrew@aol.com" , "zdenzHH@aol.com" , "Zodiacll@aol.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Creative Arts Café Poetry Series Marj Hahne and OPEN MIKE Mt. Kisco, NY: Monday July 23rd at 7:30 PM, The Creative Arts Café Poetry Series at Northern Westchester Center for the Arts celebrates summer with Poet and educator Marj Hahne will read selections of her work. A reception and open mike follows the reading. Marj Hahne is a poet and an educator. Recently transplanted from Philadelphia to New York City, she teaches poetry workshops to children and adults at schools, museums, bookstores, and conferences. She is a regular at the Cornelius Street Café in NYC. Her reading of her poem for Ellis Paul at NWCA’s Ellis Paul concert in February at NWCA was a terrific crowd pleaser among people who were not the usual poetry fans. Sharon Olds best expresses for Marj why she writes and teaches poetry and why she shares what she writes: "To the poet, the human community is like the community of birds to a bird, singing to each other. Love is one of the reasons we are singing to one another, love of language itself, love of sound, love of singing itself, and love of the other birds." Marj wants to (re)awaken people to the restorative power of words, that is, to poetry as another mode of artistic expression that can embolden people toward real self-empowerment and ultimately toward a collective healing. The series is made possible by grants from the New York State Council on the Arts and the Bydale Foundation. There is a suggested donation of $7.00; $5.00 for seniors and students. Coffee, cake and refreshments are included. The Creative Arts Cafe is located in the gallery of Northern Westchester Center for the Arts, 272 North Bedford Road, Mt. Kisco, on Rte 117, near Staples. For further information, call Cindy Beer-Fouhy, Director of Literary Arts at NWCA, 241 6922. For directions log onto: http://www.nwcaonline.org/info_dir.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 17:27:46 +0000 Reply-To: anielsen@lmu.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anielsen@LMU.EDU Subject: Re: from the desk of the anti-laureate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >>2. OK Aldon -- how about a Mass Anti-Reading on the Library of Congress Steps ? Now that sounds like a good idea -- I remember a read-in on the LOC steps back in the 80s in opposition to the Reaganauts' plans to curtail the public hours of our public library -- This could be both more fun and more useful in the long run -- a good antidote to the occasional self-congratulatory mass gatherings of past Consultants/Laureates that go on inside -- Somebody in D.C. want to start organizing an anti-reading????? PLEASE NOTE NEW EMAIL ADDRESS AS OF JULY 25, 2001: aln10@psu.edu "Why don't they stop throwing symbols?" --Bob Kaufman Aldon L. Nielsen The George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 119 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 _________________________________________________ The simple way to read all your emails at ThatWeb http://www.thatweb.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 18:32:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Grammar and Agency in Genoa Comments: To: easter-island@sfu.ca Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There are some curious grammatical constructions in today's media coverage of the G8 events. Check out this one, from a BBC news article: "The violence in Genoa on Friday left one protester dead and another seriously injured." Is there a technical name from grammar, rhetoric or an affiliated study for this type of substitution--from a specific material agent/subject ("the police") to a general process(?) ("the violence")? The BBC article is on-line at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_1448000/1448751.stm Attitional reports are accumulating at: Infoshop: http://www.infoshop.org/news6/genoa.html Indymedia Global: http://www.indymedia.org Indymedia Italy: http://italy.indymedia.org A photo sequence of the killing (apparently, of a man named Carlo Giuliani) is at: http://www.elpais.es/fotografia/especiales/secuencia/1.html Also, this article in today's New York Times. How did it come to be that the concept of "anti-globalization" was substituted for "anti-capitalism"? A few minutes ago G.W. Bush stated in a broadcast that he disagrees with the "isolationism" and "protectionism" of the anti-G8 activists. Who is he talking about? Aaron Vidaver =20 Published on Friday, July 20, 2001 in the New York Times=20 What the Protesters in Genoa Want by Michael Hardt and Antonio Negri=20 =20 Genoa, that Renaissance city known for both openness and shrewd political sophistication, is in crisis this weekend. It should have thrown its gates wide for the celebration of this summit of the world's most powerful leaders. But instead Genoa has been transformed into a medieval fortress of barricades with high-tech controls. The ruling ideology about the present form of globalization is that there is no alternative. And strangely, this restricts both the rulers and the ruled.=20 Leaders of the Group of Eight have no choice but to attempt a show of political sophistication. They try to appear charitable and transparent in their goals. They promise to aid the world's poor and they genuflect to Pope John Paul II and his interests. But the real agenda is to renegotiate relations among the powerful, on issues such as the construction of missile defense systems. The leaders, however, seem detached somehow from the transformations around them, as though they are following the stage directions from a dated play. We can see the photo already, though it has not yet been taken: President George W. Bush as an unlikely king, bolstered by lesser monarchs. This is not quite an image of the future. It resembles more an archival photo, pre-1914, of superannuated royal potentates. Those demonstrating against the summit in Genoa, however, are not distracted by these old-fashioned symbols of power. They know that a fundamentally new global system is being formed. It can no longer be understood in terms of British, French, Russian or even American imperialism. The many protests that have led up to Genoa were based on the recognition that no national power is in control of the present global order. Consequently protests must be directed at international and supranational organizations, such as the G-8, the World Trade Organization, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. The movements are not anti-American, as they often appear, but aimed at a different, larger power structure. If it is not national but supranational powers that rule today's globalization, however, we must recognize that this new order has no democratic institutional mechanisms for representation, as nation-states do: no elections, no public forum for debate. The rulers are effectively blind and deaf to the ruled. The protesters take to the streets because this is the form of expression available to them. The lack of other venues and social mechanisms is not their creation. Antiglobalization is not an adequate characterization of the protesters in Genoa (or G=F6teborg, Quebec, Prague, or Seattle). The globalization debate will remain hopelessly confused, in fact, unless we insist on qualifying the term globalization. The protesters are indeed united against the present form of capitalist globalization, but the vast majority of them are not against globalizing currents and forces as such; they are not isolationist, separatist or even nationalist. The protests themselves have become global movements and one of their clearest objectives is for the democratization of globalizing processes. It should not be called an antiglobalization movement. It is pro-globalization, or rather an alternative globalization movement =97 one that seeks to eliminate inequalities between rich and poor and between the powerful and the powerless, and to expand the possibilities of self-determination. If we understand one thing from the multitude of voices in Genoa this weekend, it should be that a different and better future is possible. When one recognizes the tremendous power of the international and supranational forces that support our present form of globalization, one could conclude that resistance is futile. But those in the streets today are foolish enough to believe that alternatives are possible =97 that "inevitability" should not be the last= word in politics. A new species of political activist has been born with a spirit that is reminiscent of the paradoxical idealism of the 1960's =97 the realistic course of action today is to demand what is seemingly impossible, that is, something new. Protest movements are an integral part of a democratic society and, for this reason alone, we should all thank those in the streets in Genoa, whether we agree with them or not. Protest movements, however, do not provide a practical blueprint for how to solve problems, and we should not expect that of them. They seek rather to transform the public agenda by creating political desires for a better future. We see seeds of that future already in the sea of faces that stretches from the streets of Seattle to those of Genoa. One of the most remarkable characteristics of these movements is their diversity: trade unionists together with ecologists together with priests and communists. We are beginning to see emerge a multitude that is not defined by any single identity, but can discover commonality in its multiplicity. These movements are what link Genoa this weekend most clearly to the openness =97 toward new kinds of exchange and new ideas =97 of its= Renaissance past. Michael Hardt and Antonio Negri are the authors of "Empire.''=20 Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 12:49:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik Chris Sumberg Some "micro poems" from Chris Sumberg, well published in little magazines, resident of our nation's Nuclear Capital, Oak Ridge, TN, can be reached at sumberg@usit.net. Idiot? My voice screaming: You'll die! You'll die! Hostage, Failure, Doom!- Debt!- Death! Then TV saves me with dreams of minty breath. ************** Checked Perfection's for the dull and unforgiving. (I see that's unforgiving.) ************** Debt vs Dog The dog was expensive. They had to have him. A leg here, a nose there. ************** Ding I'm an *ummm*, a fullish, smallish* ahhhhh*. Near-word: *Hmn* like that lady's *tch*, that baby's *phraaap!* Just like the world, full of unexplained crap. ************** Feral Lunchbreak Revved-up psycho chewing cheese 'n' gristle sandwich, mouth and jowls jouncing: boing-boing boing-boing-boing. ************** Mundane Trivia, my Sancho Panza, your words are doom, etc. I can put myself on the pedestal. Just by saying pedestal. I'm way up there now, a little shelf smooth and distant. ************** Nerve This world of worms gets me squirming like a snake. ************** My Job Before Being A Janitor The fast food deli. I worked with Hermoine and Duane. Hermoine ate pie. Duane weighed less than thirty-five pounds. They were going to make me manager-- the owners. Told me what a good sound business making sandwiches was-- offered to sell me the whole fucking chain. But I had to learn everything in a day, wear a yellow shirt, a muscle-bound hoagie scorched across it, and a yellow visor, my ears sticking out handles on a jug. So I worked for four hours, squirting oil and vinegar on white bread. Around noon I quit, Then I became a janitor. The rest, I believe, is history. ************** Opportunity Galore In the train, we all think it, but no one pulls the cord. ************** The Organs of Genius Are Louder Yeah, yeah. It's easy to run: Minor keys. Bach saw rough winters with too many kids. ************** Chris Sumberg ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 12:57:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik, Special Treats Bart Plantenga, living in the free republic of Amsterdam, puts out regular lists and comments on CD's, and especially spoken word CD's, which he also broadcasts (or not) on one of his several radio programs. The format takes some getting used to, but for those interested, it's always a rewarding experience. SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT: 300+ emails suddenly dropped off my playlist list - BUT WHEN? - and so I am resending you the last 2 playlists. Let me know when you received the last WRECK playlist AND if you want any of the back ones. Or if you want off this list. ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? wReck thiS meSS on Radio Patapoe 97.2 - Amsterdam Adventures in UNsound: no. 108 > Silence [RIP JL Hooker] Maandag, 25 Juni 2001 (17:00 - 19:04) "Yes radio is a fine thing, but still the greatest pleasure it gives is switching it off." - Arnold Schoenberg as quoted in Radiotext[e] [a] The World Today > John Lee Hooker vs Canned Heat [1] Wreck This Mess > Black Sifichi Mix Meet Me in the Bottom > John Lee Hooker vs Canned Heat [1] Drifter > John Lee Hooker vs Canned Heat [1] Dirty Groundhog > John Lee Hooker [2] Goin' Home > John Lee Hooker [2] Wreck This Mess Silence & Sequence > Klaus Schulze "During long, calm, carefree hours, lengthy hours when, lying in the bottom of a lone bark, we contemplate the sky, to what memory do give us over? All images are absent, the sky is empty, but the movement is there, living, smooth, rhythmic, in a movement scarcely perceptible and quite silent." o Gaston bachelard, "Water & Dreams: An Essay on the Imagination of Matter" Pegasus [originally published in French in 1942] Before "Ocean of Sound" there was definitely Bachelard. Piece (For a Listener) > Achim Wollscheid [2a] A Walk through The City > Hildegaard Westerkamp [3] Empty Vessels > Dennis Smalley [4] Piece (For a Listener) > Achim Wollscheid [2a] + Mantra I Meditation > Paul Horn [4] + Mumtaz Mahal > Paul Horn [4] "Ecoute - plus rien - seul le grand silence - ecoute" [listen - now there's nothing - but complete silence - listen] o O.W. de la Milosz as quoted in Bachelards's "The Poetics of Space" + Uber Die Stille > Christina Kubisch [4a] Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence > David Toop [5] Meditating Electronix > Ultra Milkmaids [6] A Hum Tralala Through the Silence > Willem de Ridder [7] Speed of 120 > Sukora [8] Quiet3 > Bourbonese Qualk [9] Sod It, I'm Off To Hawaii > Osymyso [10] Track 15: Announcement of 25 secs. of Silence > Meat Beat Manifesto [11] SILENCES SPEAK AMONG THEMSELVES 15 seconds of pure silence. Do-re-mi on a flute. 8 seconds of pure silence. Do-re-mi on a flute. 29 seconds of pure silence. Sol on piano. Do on a trumpet. 40 seconds of pure silence... - F.T. Marinetti Power of Silence > Scott Marshall [12] Sod It, I'm Off To Hawaii > Osymyso [10] A Hum Tralala Through the Silence > Willem de Ridder [7] The Sky settles in the Silence in Between > David Berezan [13] + Track 15: Announcement of 25 secs. of Silence > Meat Beat Manifesto [11] Brown Rice > Don Cherry [14] Silent Signals > William Orbit 4 Min. 33 secs. > Mimetic Mute [15] "when insomnia...is increased through irritation caused by city noises; or when late at night, the hum of automobiles and trucks rumbling through the Place Maubert causes me to curse my city dweller's fate, I can recover my calm by living the metaphor of the ocean." * Bachelards's "The Poetics of Space" Accidental Silent Piece > Anna Montana [16] Ecoute > Claude Shreyer Deep Listening > Penumbra [17] + Piece (For a Listener) > Achim Wollscheid [2a] The Sounds That Engale Us > Harpy [18] Deep Listening > Penumbra [17] What Silence Knows > Sharon Nelson [19] Mambo > Cee Mix [20] <><><><><><<><><><<><<><<<><><<><<><<<<<<<<><><<><><<><<><<><><<><<> [a] "La radia shall be the delimitation and geometric construction of silence." - F.T. Marinetti Quoted in Radiotext[e], a 1994 anthology of radio writings and perhaps the single best anthology about radio. Also includes a Document of the early days of WRECK THIS MESS [Autonomedia] edited by Dave Mandl & Neil Strauss. Includes essays by Brecht, Orwell, Weill, Schwitters, Walter Benjamin, Guattari, Joseph Lanza, Hakim Bey, Geert Lovink, La Monte Young, Trotsky, Schoenberg, Abbie Hoffman, Negativland, Upton Sinclair, and others... [1] "Hooker 'n' Heat" double CD on Liberty. Reissued from 1970. This is truly one of those great discs where master meets acolytes and forces the acolytes to perform beyond their wildest dreams. It doesn't feel like an obsequious star-fuck and it doesn't creak along with holy reverence. It just boogies and it frames JLH very well. It makes you realize how cosmic his sound was with that foot tapping and that great rich round voice. I saw JLH in 1990 in Paris at some outdoor festival where he was backed by some long hair electric band that seemed clueless [and hair wagging] to the quiet intensity that was just brewing on stage as they went off flailing in white heated totally superfluous blustery guitar solos and yet, JLH and that deep dark boogie track came through despite all the glaring glitzy glop on stage. [2] This is off some greatest hits and it doesn't much matter which one. He put out some - I hear - 450 records in his lifetime and all of them sound exactly the same and yet somehow that never mattered at all. [2a] "Site of Sound: Of Architecture & The Ear" on Errant Bodies Press is a book/cd edited and compiled by sonic explorers Brandon Labelle & Steve Roden. This is a very ambitious package of writings and musical investigations on how sound defines space and vice versa. It applies the Situationist notion of the dérive which set out to discover the hidden characteristics of a city and redesign a city based on the demands of dreams and intuitive wandering. This is the strategy employed here.Writing & sounds by Alison Knowles, Christof Migone, Hildegard Westerkamp, Leif Ellgren, Toshiya Tsunoda, David Dunn, CM von Hausswolf and other luminaries on the urban outskirts where there are no curbs, no shoulders, no parking spaces, no speed limits to sound. This piece Wollscheid recommends that we take a minute to just listen, no really listen: "please listen closely to the different sounds in your environment, adopt one of these sounds, try to imagine this single sound expanded over one minute, do not change it, just maintain it, try not to hum, just think it, then quit." SILENCE for 1 minute.... Texts in the fascinating book include Jake Tillson's "Noise Violation Kit" which offers to be "a practical solution to your local noise pollution hotspots;" Rolf Julius' searches for "Rooms of Stillness;" David Dunn's "Purposeful Listening in Complex States of Time" and many others. [3] "Transformations" on Empreintes Digitales . ED is a great label of enterprising experiments in psycho-electrical-acoustic works. Amazing stuff they put out including Francis Dhomont, Claude Schreyer, H. Westerkamp and many others. The odd thing is, is why Canada is so in the forefront of electro-acoustic work? Soundscape philosophy as well? Most of this stuff is of extremely marginal value in the USA but in Canada it seems to be part of the dialectic. In the forefront of confronting our natural ambience and how technology and humans have impact on this is HW. She developed her soundwalks in the 80s which entailed a kind aural equivalent of the Situationists Dérive. "A Walk" is a sonic dérive. A sojourn through Vancouver's skid row including the usual urban din. These sounds are presented as is but also as sound objects that were manipulated in the studio. What Westerkamp does superbly is encourage us to invest in deep listening as a way of setting soul and environment in some kind of cognizance balance. [4] "Inside" on Epic. It is unbelievable that commercial labels took chances with esoteric records like this. This is Paul Horn's early work with soundings, which attempted to create an aural space by blowing on his flute on various [famous] interiors. This is the first and best of his efforts, recorded in april 1968, in the Taj Mahal, which lies on the South Bank of the Jumna River. [4a] CK is included on the "Site of Sound: Of Architecture & The Ear" on Errant Bodies Press CD/book. She has been builiding sound sculptures in Germany and elsewhere since 1980. She lives in Berlin. [5] "hmm" on Sprawl is a brilliant conceptual compilation. It takes as the theme hymns, lullabies and other songs remembered from childhood and reconstitutes them in a living deconstructed format. This is really really beautiful - and unsettling. Some of the tunes I have no idea where they come from, others I find unrecognizable as if the process of memory morphs tunes until they are something wholly new. I anxiously awaited this CD because I knew that the efforts of Doug Benford and Iris Garrelfs would be worth it. I knew it would serve as the backbone of this special show I did recently of classical music[s] renovated or razed by modern musicians. I am not sure these are ALL traditional hymns and anthems from around the world as remembered from their impressionable childhoods and reconstituted here but it has that feel. Intimate without being at all sanctimonious or sloppily sentimental nor are the musicians prone to that infantile notion of killing their heritage/parents by shitting on tradition without improving upon it. It begins with "Morning Has Broken" by Freeform which was first made famous [I think] by Cat Stevens and it instantly has me reeling backward into a feral field of my teen years. The entire disc operates pretty much this way - a mnemonic key into pasts I have never even lived. I remember very vividly making out on my girl friend's couch in high school with this disc spinning precariously on a cheap stereo. 'hmm' also features David Toop [very static glitchy like he's shaving the head of some childhood memory], Sprawl's own BitTonic with a beautiful piece, Farben via Milles Plateaux, Wiggle, Puppy, Carl Stone, Finland's Vladislav Delay, Japan's young female turntablist Apache 61 and the glibly effective Osymyso [6] "Peps.CD" by the Ultra Milkmaids [great name] on Ant Zen is a very interesting thrust into unsettling ambience. Subliminal and furtive - they call it "arctic minimalism". Regardless, they are all healthy antidotes to the hyper-cliched worlds of pop genres. This kind of stuff is actually just the aural flush your inner ear needs. Earth observed from 10,000 miles out in the ether. 15 minutes of silence on a 19 minute cut. This is part of a bigger silence joke, which usually withholds a kind of secret message or cut or gem after and beyond all of that silence. And if you are willing to endure 15 minutes of silence this is how you will be rewarded. See also Osymyso, Tipsy, Dmitri From Paris and others. [7] While fumbling to begin my show, Willem de Ridder, previously the radioman and avant gardist who STILL enjoys radio [see his great conceptual radio pieces] on before me, tries to fill in the silence with some improvising. But what he does is humorously call attention to the entire preposterous and scary notion of silence on radio. He smokes cigars that come in beautiful glass test tubes. It brings back instantly my uncle in Wayne NJ, we had just immigrated to the US and he smoked cigars, spoke of the virtues of America, Arizona vacations, Buick's new aluminum engine and Barry Goldwater. [8] "Clear / No Name" on Effe is a Japanese label of noises and soundings also includes Carl Stone, John Hudak, M5BR, Sukora, Toy Bizarre and others. No ABBA. [9] This is one of these great bands [sounds?] that I've never managed to learn much about. There were times I was reminded of Muslimgauze. But anyway, there was a long period of about 4 years of radio Djing in NY when I refused to read ANY reviews or music writing and in this way I could do my show without the imposition of the PAINTED WORD preceding my surprise when listening to new material. It's no excuse, but it is something. [10] "Welcome to the Palindrome" by Osymyso on Sprawl is a very very clever assemblage of samples, and intricate collage of sonic snippets which creates a bigger picture of the world as something between a cheeky sham and an insane post-Dada mess. Very Recommended: In the realm of Curd Duca, Tipsy, Dimitri from Paris ... It is fun again to go around sampling just like the early days when it all seemed like sonic versions of post-situ strategies a la Negativland, Plunderphonics, early RRR records... Here again employing the old silent rop a dope trick of much silence before coming back to sonic life with a little decoded coda... [11] There was a time in the early 90s when they were THE band to listen to. They had shucked the mechanical edges and had gone fluid, even psychedelic and were seemingly enjoying themselves with some pretty right on samples. There dark industrial stance went suddenly cosmic ... and then I heard a really snarky smarmy interview they did with Wreck This Mess in Paris [Laurent & Black Sifichi] where they were quick to bad mouth some people whose sound might be quickly associated with MBM. When Laurent mentioned Adrian Sherwood, they just lashed way out of line. It just was stupid ego-punk type stuff and my estimation of them has never quite recovered. [12] "Scott Marshall" on Paniculture You will be hearing more about him. Right now, I will say that it is an interesting duet of manmade sounds with naturally-generated environmental sounds and that there are huge breathtaking scoops of silence [not] present. I know I promised this before but... [14] "Don Cherry" on A & M in 1976 with Charlie Haden, Hakim Jamil, Billy Higgins, Frank Lowe, Ricky Cherry, Bunchie Fox, Verna Gillis, Moki Cherry. Includes "Brown Rice" which had a large impact on my youthful ears back then. This is all racy beautifully rendered takes on African tales. Further proof that Don Cherry was a world musician who went far and wide to discover new places and instruments and accompanists to jam with - in this case big blowing sea mammals. Also worked with the varied likes of Rip, Rig & Panic, Albert Ayler, Arto Lindsay, Heiner Göbbells, Lou Reed ["The Bells" which I saw at the Bottom Line], Ian Dury, Sun Ra, Brion gysin and many many others. For a complete discography [15] "Negative" on Prikosnovenie is darker and noisier than "Positive" and set on a kind of scattershot random fire. The sounds hint at a collapse of trust in human beings and their electronic devices. I feel the technology almost turning against us. The sound is dark and dystopic, voyeuristic and gives the sense of sci-fi speculative journeys. He has worked with industrial spectacle bands like Von Magnet or Column One and also has composed orchestral percussion for orchestra and various dance companies here in the Netherlands. So perhaps we are entering the fat era of orchestral industrial or the sonic bedouinization of speculative sound. Hmm. [[from a 1999 message from Lydia Tomkiw, ex-poet/reciter in Algebra Suicide: "Bart - glad you did something on Cage.... can you take one more story of him that's my fave? He was put into a chamber where it was totally soundproof (not even light, artificial or other to make noise). When he emerged he claimed he COULD hear 2 sounds: a constant really high frequency squealing, and a low, almost inaudible constant rumble/ rolling sound. The squeal were his ganglia/synapsis working; the low sound was his blood circulating through his body (not his heart-beat... he identified that)....... I thought it was a fascinating story."]] [16] This from an unreleased tape of Anna Montana's [supposedly] elaborate vocal operatic-acrobatix. But alas, the tape was as silent as silent can be on a medium priced cassette - lots of surface noise and the sound of machines and technology at work. I thought it worked as a long-version homage to Cage. Someday she will know about this version and she will be appreciated for not only this but her true gift for bizarre entertainment. Her reverse strip tease is her most famous Amsterdam piece [censored in NY!] where she and [usually] Erin Tasmania take the stage totally naked - and totally is a lot and deliriously uncompromising. Then, with some appropriate slimey oozy strip jazz they begin to elaborately get dressed until they are loaded down in about 15 layers of flamboyantly clashing layers of clothing [looking like tarted up bag ladies] as people in the audience yell "Put it ALL on!" [17] "Skandinavien" on Iris Light is great, beautiful, calming without being sleep-inducing, provocative without being grating. Penumbra is a member of Zoviet France and is in their realm of high quality. Ethereal but also with a throb and beat. This disc seems to combine the best of ambient, the best of investigative soundings and the best of speculative and surreptitious noise. Highly recommended. [18] "Sound Information Collection" on Echo Beach includes work by Harpy, Sounds from the Ground, Butterfly, Purr, and Path. This London-based label was a major force in bringing new underground sounds that found no other outlet. Their slippery eclectic electronic music with Sounds From the Ground forming its in-house band found release on their own label as well as on Universal Egg, the label of Extremadura and Zion Train. There are ways to turn New Agey sounds into something exciting and genuinely vibrant. It is a dangerous wobbly slack wire to walk but Harpy creates a kind of earthly paradise full of buzzing fields, humming pastures and delightful stillness the way Henri rousseau's paintings evoke a primitve paradise; combine that with some of Pink Floyd's more ambient flora/fauna work... [19] "King Size Dub 5" contains remixes of Junior Delgado, I Roy, Bim Sherman and work by Zion Train, Stash, Shara Nelson, Horace Andy vs Massive Attack and Dr. Israel from Word Sound rewired. SN sings with a sound strikingly similar to Dub Syndicate "I want to know what silence knows so I can know what it take to be free..." [20] "Home Is Where The Bass Is" on Incoming. Cee Mix take the notions of weightlessness and the ethereal lethargy of dub to the max. Everything is slowed down. Everything is altered - beats, time to space relatins and so after listening to this disc you realize that there are reasons for dub's fascination with space - it is a metaphor for the psychotropically induced trips that spell escape but also exploration. It is the best example of my notion as laid out in my "Ocean of Sound" review and an article "Subworld Dubafarianism" [reprinted in ANGBASE] "These producers created unique musical values, hypnotic sound, a new sense of timing (inspired by ganja? meditation? tropical heat?) which plowed gaping furrows of silent space between notes. Slowed to a yogi's pulse so that each note, each thrump shakes and shivers all of its echo and effects out of its system. (I think also of Miles Davis' interminable breaths between trumpet bleats). These empty spaces, these synaptic sectors serve as the exposed orifices, the tympanic playgrounds for producers to play in; the deep breathing space where contemplation and invention thrive." <><><><><><<><><><<><<><<<><><<><<><<<<<<<<><><<><><<><<><<><><<><<> Other SILENT Resources: o "The Power of Silence" by Adam Jaworski, Sage Pub, London, 1993 o CRESSON is the Center for REsearch on Sound Space and the Urban Environment, which brings together architects, city plannners, engineers, ecologists, sociologists and specialists in the design of shapes and sounds. It is an interdisciplinary research labratory focussing on the perceptible environment and urban atmospheres. Among sound related topics are "sound effects in an urban environment, sound in housing design, methods of representing sound and light qualities". CRESSON was founded in 1979 and its initial work concentrated on the sound environment, comparing data on social practices, architecture and acoustics..." o "Device of good listening: it consists in configuring the built space by closing some door and by opening windows, for instance, in order to guide the listening towards a specific noise. It reminds us of the very good old idea of Athanasius Kircher who considered the built space as an extension of the ear." Mohammed Bazine Boubezari, Cresson, "Domesticating the Sound Space" o "From Awareness to Action: Proceedings from "Stockholm, Hey Listen!" An interesting collection of essays that deal with how sound and silence fare in the urban ear. Inc. R. Murray Schaefer "Soundscape, then & now", Arne Naess "The sound crisis - a genuine part of the ecological crisis", Arline ronzaft "An international voice against the perilous noise pollutant", also Hildegaard Westerkamp and others. more info o World Forum For Acoustic Ecology has a very interesting newsletter called "Soundscape - The Journal of Acoustic Ecology" which concentrates on the "study of the relationship between living organisms and their sonic environment" and the WFAE "seeks to identify ecological imbalances in the soundscape, improve the acoustic quality of a place wherever possible..." More info: o "The Tuning of the World" R. Murray Schaefer, Knopf, 1974. He fairly "invented" the soundscape and the entire critique of visual hegemony and "eye culture" at the expense of ou sonic environment - it is certainly one reason noise pollution is seldom taken very seriously. Schaefer helped "express the idea that the sound of a particular locality - like local architecture, customs, dress - express a community's identity..." Kendall Wrightson o There is a very slender guidebook which lists and details quiet places in NY - silent sanctuaries. So important in NY and yet ever more difficult to find - headphones is one "solution". o "Stilte in de Stad" in the Thursday 10 May 2001 De Volkskrant presents a review and look at the idea of contemplation. "Breeze of AIR / Hortus Conclusus" is an exhibit about contemplation sites to be seen at Witte de With, Witte de Withstraat 50, Rotterdam o This past week, on Nederland 3, Dokwerk, 21.00 presents the work of Stichting BAM or the Bestrijding Akoestische Millieuvervuiling or the Foundation for the Fight Against Acoustic Environmental Pollution. Begun in 1995 to do battle with unwelcome noise in our everyday environment. They are particularly peeved by the imposition of annoying Muzak in public places. and Stichting Geluidhinder [Noise Hindrance Foundation] o "The March 23, 1991 newsbrief 'High Tech Psychological Warfare Arrives in the Middle East' describes a US Psychological Operations [PsyOps] tactic directed against Iraqi troops in Kuwait during Operation Desert Storm. The manouevre consisted of a system in which subliminal mind-altering technology was carried on standard radio frequency broadcasts. The March 26, 1991 news brief states that among the standard military planning groups in the centre of US war planning operations at Riayadh was 'an unbelievable and highly classified PsyOps program utilising "silent sound" techniques.'" - Judy Wall, "Military Use of Mind Control Weapons <><><><><><<><><><<><<><<<><><<><<><<<<<<<<><><<><><<><<><<><><<><<> THIS PLAYLIST GOES OUT TO OVER 1500 READER CUM EYEBALL "LISTENERS" PER WEEK <><><><><><<><><><<><<><<<><><<><<><<<<<<<<><><<><><<><<><<><><<><<> SDI > SELF DESTRUCTION INSURED > CONTACT ninplant@xs4all.nl FOR REMOVAL ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 14:17:28 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: housepress/derek beaulieu Subject: new from housepress: Bowering's "Some Writers" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit housepress is pleased to announce the release of a new chapbook: Some Writers by George Bowering Much like Bowering's _Curious_, "Some Writers" is a series of 8 portraits and reactions to other poets' and novelists' work. Bowering is the author of over 40 books, and 2 time Governor-General award winner (1969, 1980), his most recent works are "Six LIttle poems in Alphabetical order" (housepress, 2000) and _A Magpie Life_ (Key Porter, 2001). Bowering lives in Vancouver. "Some Writers" is published in limited numbered edition of 80 copies. each copy is handbound and features linocut and rubberstamp cover artwork by derek beaulieu. copies are $8 each for more information, or to order copies, contact derek beaulieu at housepress@home.com http://www.telusplanet.net/public/housepre ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 18:34:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Shawn Aron Vandor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed "Boobery?" Yes. If I was to say the word......sociology.......to you, what would you say, what would you think? As a perspective, as a discipline? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:58:57 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hugh Nicoll Subject: Desperately Seeking Susan Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Greetings all, Am looking for contact info for Susan Gevirtz - went to school with her back in the 70s, would like to get in touch with her. Postal address or whatever, please backchannel. Thanks, Hugh ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 23:14:38 -0500 Reply-To: mcveigh@attglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: DANIEL MCVEIGH Organization: Ocean of Know Subject: change of email Comments: To: Nuyopoman@aol.com Comments: cc: poetry.guide@about.com, poetryhosts@yahoogroups.com, Marjorie A Hahne , NSIELING@aol.com, jblum@wsfilms.com, arubin@interport.net, Jen Abrams , sabrams@firstclass.rit.edu, gea1@is4.nyu.edu, Sherman Alexie , qlansana@hrw.com, GAlley@vcccd.net, Johnallison@aol.com, "Amirthanayagam,Indran J" , Amramdavid@aol.com, AndyDiagram@compuserve.com, JOHN ASHBERY , Pamela Auchincloss , Cheryl B , Kojo Baffoe , Tara Bahrampour , mo@cafemo.com, ab11@erols.com, daddybaby69@yahoo.com, Alex Bouton , Matt Fodor , Afi McClendon , Charlie Dean , Steve Gilpin , Funfeel4@aol.com, Jacob Gordon , Kate Hartman , Ethan Hochgesang , "Prof. Bob" , Elizabeth Luttinger , Juan Martinez , Rayna Matthews , Gerald Moody , Michael Nicoloff , samantha , Anthony Rivera , Patrick Rodgers , Carrie Schulz , Emily Steinfield , Bart Yates , Andreis Costa , Sebastian Bear-McCloud , MCEO@aol.com, Juan Carlos Diaz , Rasul Heatley , Barney Kulok , Rebecca Wu-Norman , William Ruiz , Jessica Neptune , Sophie Rosenblum , Bill Ryan , hbarthel@juno.com, hollybassdc@yahoo.com, jill@puretaos.com, paul beasley , Sharmilla Beezmohun , John Benton , Theresa Bergne , Veronique Bernard , Susan Bernofsky , charles bernstein , eberrigan@hotmail.com, Ann Biersteker , ann.biersteker@yale.edu, toni_blackman@hotmail.com, BLEECKERTHEATER@aol.com, Peter Blegvad , Josephine H Bloomfield , Bonairpoet@aol.com, Jane Bowers , Rawaircbt2@aol.com, pbrodsky@mail.com, LA@tenderbuttons.net, bruweber@msn.com, Jacob Burckhardt , nellymac@earthlink.net, ainsleyburrows@hotmail.com, Missbamboo@aol.com, "Turnbull,Keith" , "Anderson,Fortner" , "Dutton,Paul" , "Denby,Joolz" , "Joseph,Clifton" , "McDowell,Richard" , "Wilson,Sheri-D" , "Samuels,Ian" , Hal Cannon , Charles Cantalupo , dcappello@wnyc.org, Kenneth Carroll , myscar1@juno.com, Adrian Castro , Cawsma@aol.com, Lenoracha@aol.com, chinpoet@hotmail.com, lonejac@mindspring.com, Ychuma@aol.com, Jean Churchill , clausenj@newschool.edu, Jim Cohn , ToddJColby@aol.com, Wanda Coleman , Libitlouda@aol.com, connie@nytimes.com, godshine01@hotmail.com, PscookProd@aol.com, Julken@aol.com, creeley@acsu.buffalo.edu, victor hernandez cruz , cc@megacorp.u-net.com, "Grace,Danny" , Amanda Deutch , sheila@thinkvisual.com, md@knitmedia.com, "Sean T. Dougherty" , mdrapkin@drapkintechnology.com, CEPoetry@aol.com, Anne Edgar , edwinliz@yahoo.com, teiben@pw.org, jason eisenberg , "Elliott,Anne (RSCH), RobertE@Review.com (Robert Elstein), FaithMerciful@aol.com, EEqui@aol.com, Estevessan@aol.com, david.felton@mtv.com, dferri@enc.k12.il.us (Daniel Ferri), tippyfig@nevada.edu (DAYVID FIGLER), SAGEkillz@aol.com," MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Please note that my email has changed from: danmcp@delphi.com to: mcveigh@attglobal.net no email will be sent forward from the old address. Daniel P McVeigh ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:31:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Allen H. Bramhall" Subject: boston poetry marathon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit all manner of interruption, as the people gather for an ear. each ear fills, and news and noise collide. this must be something integrated with other elations, that will be spoken of in later days. our children will be pleased. the timeless crafting of words and the images that tag along must continue. words will take us to new places such as can be reached with imaginative rustle and smell of something distantly remembered. it could be a tale for smiling bands of active poets, or a cherishing that anyone can perform. when we reach our knighted consideration, there will be hell to pay. well, hell is a dandy landlord in most respects: we shall carry on. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:08:31 -0400 Reply-To: BobGrumman@nut-n-but.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > poppycock, Plath died too young to be called great I think that she > had potential to be great. As an admirer of Keats, levy, Marlowe and Shelley, all of whom I consider great, I can't agree that Plath was too young to be called great. I find her to have been too uneven to be called great, in her oeuvre as a whole and in most of her individual poems. At her best, though, she was terrific (e.g., "my heart is a stopped geranium.") I think Hughes's Crow poems a superior sustained effort than anything she did, but suspect that he couldn't have done them without her example. Disclaimer: I can't say I've studied her work enough to have anything near what I'd call a valid opinion of it. I'm also prejudiced against the kind of confessional poems, like "Daddy," that she was best-known for. --Bob G. on it that I'd be willing to > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "richard.tylr" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 9:24 AM > Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath > > > Dodie etal. My feelings about Plath are, on reading her again and keeping > > as much biographical things "at bay" as much as possible, she is a > > remarkable poet: one of America's greatest.Or one of the world's. Easily > a > > greater poet than Hughes. A poet with an extraordinary native ability and > > great energy in composition. > > I cant comment on her prose as when I read The Bell Jar I was rather > > depressed myself. I dint like the "negative side of her...but that is no > > objectie objection, just a response at the time. But certainly she and > some > > of te othe so called "confessionals" have been denigrated or inadvertently > > "spoiled" by their admirers. I like those writers as well as the less > > "direct" poets. I see Berryman and Roethke as intermediate somwhat. > Plath's > > work has the craftmanship or craftiness? of eg Dylan Thomas without the > > tendency toward ovekill and or overkill or oversaturation in adjectives > and > > a drowning in sound..but any way Thomas is doing rather different things. > My > > thoughts. Ragards, Richard. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dodie Bellamy" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 9:20 AM > > Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath > > > > > > > Elizabeth, > > > > > > Thanks for the post on Plath. In the Journals I too was impressed > > > with all the natural prose genius she had that seemed to get > > > suppressed as she became serious. Her ability to describe place and > > > capture atmosphere was astonishing. But, then she'd get into > > > crafting a Story and the writing would turn sour. > > > > > > I recently read an excellent article on Plath (Kevin found it and > > > told me about it): > > > > > > http://www.laweekly.com/ink/01/30/books-fraser.shtml > > > > > > Plather > > > by Caroline Fraser > > > New books on Sylvia and Ted > > > > > > In it Fraser talks about the Plath industry, particularly that horrid > > > Sylvia and Ted "novel" by Emma Tennant. (I reviewed the Tennant book > > > myself, as well as Plath's journals--as a fan, not a scholar.) > > > Fraser does a great job of summing up all the controversy around > > > Plath, but then she, thank god, turns to Plath's poetic abilities, > > > how radically she revisioned the fluffy notion of Poetess. She takes > > > Plath's poetry very seriously: > > > > > > "Plath has a claim--perhaps a claim greater than any woman poet > > > before or since--to true greatness, but it has impossible for anyone, > > > including her husband to come to terms with it." > > > > > > I was intrigued by her position that greatness is hard to handle if > > > it comes in a troublesome package, and I was heartened by Fraser's > > > praise of Plath. Radically revising anything female can be a > > > thankless job (or, in my case, keep one from getting jobs). > > > > > > Dodie > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:56:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: connections MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable food for thought on visions in the history of medicine from Scientific = =3D American, October, 2000. freely available on the net so I hope no =3D copyright violations here- tom bell CONNECTIONS=3D20 Getting High Booze, dope, metaphysics and other rhapsodic matters- James Burke airs a few Renaissance thoughts=3D20 .................=3D20 Illustration by: Patricia J. Wynne As I came out of the library the other day, an ambulance raced =3D past. The ECNALUBMA on the front was quite a coincidence, as I'd just = =3D been looking at some of Leonardo da Vinci's mirror writing. Talk about a = =3D role model for the Renaissance man. Leonardo's talents and interests =3D were so enormous I'll leave it at that, except to say I particularly =3D liked his high-tech anatomical drawings done sometime around 1510. =3D Especially the one of the kidney, a major source of problems in an age = =3D when the rich and famous went for 10-course meals that were washed down = =3D with copious amounts of booze. Result: gout. Effect: kidney stones. By = =3D the 18th century this condition was the biggest earner for physicians to = =3D the well-heeled.=3D20 In 1753 one treatment attempted in Edinburgh was to dissolve the = =3D stones with caustic limewater. Another possibility, offered by medical = =3D student Joseph Black, was to use a preparation of magnesium carbonate. = =3D Wrong, but during the experiments Black came across carbon dioxide, =3D extinguishing candles and small birds with it, and thus inspired =3D subsequent, more famous work by such illustrious suffocaters as Joseph = =3D Priestley and Antoine Lavoisier. (Black is probably best known as the = =3D guy who told James Watt about latent heat, thereby triggering Watt's =3D idea of a separate condenser.)=3D20 In 1766 Black took the Edinburgh chair of chemistry when his old = =3D friend and former teacher William Cullen moved over to medicine. =3D Cullen's boffo success in the lecture hall had come from his =3D introduction of the hip new trend of lecturing in English rather than = =3D Latin. He also got caught up in the contemporary craze for categorizing = =3D diseases by their symptoms, a.k.a. "nosology." (A sample from his work = =3D on the subject: "Melancholy. Symptoms: aversion to action and the duties = =3D of life.")=3D20 At one point, Cullen employed a penniless young teacher as tutor = =3D to his children. This wannabe doctor, John Brown, repaid the kindness = =3D years later, when he, too, had become a medic, with a scathing attack on = =3D Cullen's practices. By this time Brown had made so many enemies with his = =3D big mouth that he was never going to get a professorship. So instead he = =3D wrote Elements of Medicine and started a whole school of therapy based = =3D on the idea that all diseases were either a shortage or an excess of =3D excitability, to be treated with either a stimulant (alcohol) or a =3D sedative (opium).=3D20 Brunonian theories created such a furor that the man had his =3D defenders and detractors fighting it out in the streets of = G=3DF6ttingen. =3D Alas, in the end, Brown was to expire from taking (too much of) his own = =3D medicine. This in 1788, seven years before a late edition of Elements = =3D was put together by one Thomas Beddoes, who had his own medical ax to = =3D grind: treatment of all diseases by inhalation at his Pneumatic =3D Institute (equipment by Watt, funding by Josiah Wedgwood). Beddoes's =3D only real claim to fame (the institute failed) was that he hired a =3D 19-year-old unknown named Humphry Davy.=3D20 Who is now so famous I'll just mention a couple of reasons why: = =3D the miner's lamp, nitrous oxide anesthetic and (from 1801) Royal =3D Institution lectures with so much pizzazz that they became an =3D intellectual fashion statement among the elite. One of whom was an old = =3D pal of Davy's (Davy had pretensions, fortunately discouraged, to writing = =3D poetry): Samuel Taylor Coleridge, by this time a well-known scribbler = =3D and another opium addict. Who introduced Davy to a young hanger-on, an = =3D as yet unknown scribbler and another opium addict named Thomas De =3D Quincey. He would become famous with his Confessions of an English =3D Opium-Eater in 1821.=3D20 De Quincey lived in such chaos that on many occasions he was =3D unable to write a piece because he couldn't locate his notes. After =3D years of writing biogs for the Britannica and lightweight magazine =3D essays, and assiduously cultivating Wordsworth, De Quincey moved to =3D Scotland, where he assiduously cultivated Sir William Hamilton. Now I'll = =3D give this to you straight, because reading about it turned my brain to = =3D porridge, so it's all I can do: Hamilton, Edinburgh prof of logic and = =3D metaphysics, quantified the predicate. Okay? (If you need to know more, = =3D try J. S. Mill's An Examination of Sir William Hamilton's Philosophy, = =3D London, 1889, and serve you right.)=3D20 One of Hamilton's pupils was a real unfortunate, name of Archibald = =3D S. Couper. A two-handkerchief tale. In 1858 Archy is working in a Paris = =3D lab and asks the lab boss to get somebody to present to the French =3D Academy a paper he's done. Archy says hurry up when boss delays. Archy = =3D is ejected from the lab and returns to obscurity in Scotland. Meanwhile = =3D somebody else comes up with the same ideas and gets all the glory. Archy = =3D is never heard from again and eventually goes gaga.=3D20 The somebody else? Only the mighty Friedrich August Kekule von =3D Stradonitz, whose ideas (atoms can link up thanks to valence: hydrogen = =3D with one other atom, oxygen with two, and so on; and the concept of a = =3D closed ring of linked carbon atoms, as in "benzene ring") laid the =3D foundations for modern structural chemistry. Or rather, did not, because = =3D poor old unimportant Archy Couper really got there first.=3D20 Kekule did, however, organize the first International Congress of = =3D Chemists in 1860 at Karlsruhe, Germany, where they sorted out the =3D confusion in chemical terminology. Among those who showed up was a =3D Russian, Dmitri Ivanovich Mende- leyev, who would later prove to be too = =3D democratic for his Czarist masters and lose his university job. Ended up = =3D director of the Bureau of Weights and Measures.=3D20 Ironic, that, because in 1869 Mendeleyev had discovered the =3D periodic table of elements, which arranged them in order of increasing = =3D atomic weight (wonder if anybody saw the joke). One of his European =3D traveling companions (who also turned up at the Karlsruhe congress) was = =3D a fellow chemist and the illegitimate son of a prince, Aleksandr =3D Porfiryevich Borodin. Who in 1862 went back to St. Petersburg to a =3D professorship, a life of chemistry and efforts to get women into the =3D medical profession.=3D20 For relaxation, Borodin hung out with a group of twentysomethings = =3D he'd met through an old childhood pal, who all encouraged him to turn = =3D his hand to the activity that has since made him more famous than his = =3D chemistry: music, especially his "Polovtsian Dances," now a staple at = =3D concerts worldwide. At the time, Russian music was split between the =3D nationalists (Borodin and friends) and the Westernizers, headed by =3D Tchaikovsky. One of whose prot=3DE9g=3DE9s was Sergei Rachmaninoff = (whose =3D "Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini" is another staple). When the October = =3D Revolution hit, Rachmaninoff hightailed it for the U.S., after which his = =3D music was banned in Russia, as "representing the decadent attitude of = =3D the lower middle classes."=3D20 In 1923 Rachmaninoff got a letter from a fellow immigrant that =3D impressed him so much he sent the guy $5,000, as a result of which Igor = =3D Sikorsky was able to start up his Aero Engineering Corporation in a barn = =3D on Long Island. In 1937 Pan Am flew the Atlantic in Sikorsky's =3D four-engined Clipper. And in 1939 Sikorsky realized a lifelong dream: to = build and fly the device that had inspired him when he first saw it as a = child, in one of Leonardo's other drawings-a helicopter. Must fly. =20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:34:00 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Grammar and Agency in Genoa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/23/01 9:27:38 AM, vid@RUNCIBLE.ORG writes: >There are some curious grammatical constructions in today's media coverage > >of the G8 events. Check out this one, from a BBC news article: "The violence > >in Genoa on Friday left one protester dead and another seriously injured." > >Is there a technical name from grammar, rhetoric or an affiliated study >for > >this type of substitution--from a specific material agent/subject ("the > >police") to a general process(?) ("the violence")? > > Aaron, Brilliant analysis. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:57:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: more songs for brom & wide cecilia In-Reply-To: <3d.ea48b59.2889b947@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >i think wide cecelia blends nicely with 'lay down sally" Wasnt that les dances =E0 lys ? -- George Bowering =46ax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:38:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - a-code: work = #### b-code: fuck = #### c-code: kill = #### ####. .... .... .. .... .. .... ... ....... ... .. .... ... 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M. ... #### - I .... .. .. ..... ....#### - .. ####.. ... ....... .. ....., ....., ...., ... ............; ... .. ..... _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 15:13:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: tove jannson Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" just a little plug for the new Outlet -- which contains Liz Waldner's appreciation of Jannson along with other fabulous things like Nicole Burrows's ode to Eileen Myles. $5 PO Box 9013 Berkeley 94709. if paying by check pls make out to ET Jackson. thx ___________________________________________ Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page2.html ___________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 15:13:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: life/work [was Re: Sylvia Plath &c.] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" from Janet Todd's _The Secret Life of Aphra Behn_ (Pandora, 2000), p.225: "Behn did not equate intelligence with this introspection, as later ages would do; she considered that a resolute triviality was as intellectually reasonable a response to an analysis of the human predicament as concentration on the 'depths' of something presumed to be the 'self'." That said (quoted), I think it's a very silly protest that we are all lay folks rather than psychiatrists -- once the shelves devoted to psychology at your local megastore outnumber those devoted to poetry, everybody knows something. For goodness' sake, on another list (where I embarassed myself) Lisa Jarnot wouldn't let me get away with disregarding Mr. Freud, the man who launched a thousand ships, some of whom write novels. Anyway, I warn of a long post perhaps. Someone complained about us (?) looking at the life of Sylvia Plath rather than simply the work. This of course is an old argument, an old dichotomy, lobotomy, or what have you. Of course I like and in some moods agree with the idea that the work is it. And of course it is. But there are circumstances, hello! As Rachel Blau DuPlessis has it in her letter to me in the new Outlet, "a female obscured author....these people can become favorites only under specific intellectual regimes -- the regime of a feminism of reception that understands why an author might get obscure because, precisely, of gender." OK, I don't especially like the word regime, or the idea that literature is only stewarded by the professional intellectuals. However, duh, of course Sylvia Plath's circumstances have to do with whether we consider her great or not. Of course Ted Hughes's brilliant careerism effects our view of her. Hello, he wrote the intro to her collected stories, the only version I've ever seen in print. But my main concern is the idea that you can look simply at the work to judge its greatness or no. Its value. That is nuts! You are in a certain vein/culture, as am I. As is the writer of it. I know this is like 101 but comments here have forced me! One thing I think I said before that makes me "diagnose" our US culture(s) as schizophrenizing is this very method of separation. Literature, gossip, politics, all of it together make a culture and a way of understanding. When people are smashed into categories, problems arise. When women are considered crazy there is a power structure at work, etc. I just think you can't say we aren't going to get into class gender race all that mess of things that are so hard to think about. When you think about writing, when you want to read, often you are looking for new questions and answers about these very things. Or, I should say, I am. Not only that but that is part of it. That is also part of how people get to be considered important or not, writing important or not. It's kind of ugly, it's kind of great. One of my favorite novelists is Janet Frame, yes she was the subject of Jane Campion's "An Angel at My Table". Yes she spent years in mental asylums. She doesn't talk about it much in her autobiography, having covered it in her 2nd, and in some more diffuse ways in her later, novels. I don't blame her not wanting to be _limited_ , to use Rachel Levitsky's word, in that way. It is crazy to romanticize categories, perhaps to romanticize anything at all, perhaps to spend so much time thinking about our own selves or the selves and circumstances of our writers. But in the end it is all part of the same experience of trying to make sense of things, ain't it? I think it ain! Anyway, all the answers you ever wanted will be provided in Outlet (8) Paradise by such fabuloues as Jimmie Durham and Leslie Scalapino. Of course I am kidding, all I want from the writers I read is partial questions, partial answers, partial "truths". Because we all are partial. xx Elizabeth ___________________________________________ Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page2.html ___________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:06:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: query Comments: cc: WOM-PO@listserv.muohio.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" apologies for crossposting and for lameness of below. Due to an editorial glitch, Outlet needs to request the postal addresses of those contributors listed below: Nava Fader MK Francisco Ange Mlinko Jessica Smith so if you, or friends of you, see this, please do reply b/c to Elizabeth at this email address. thanks! ___________________________________________ Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page2.html ___________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:07:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Avery Burns Subject: Canessa Park 8/5/01-- Cross & Gardner Comments: To: drewgard@erols.com, delray@shampoopoetry.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Canessa Park Reading Series 708 Montgomery Street San Francisco, CA 94111 Admission $5 Sunday August 5th, 5 pm Del Ray Cross & Drew Gardner Del Ray Cross has been a San Francisco resident for thirteen months. He edits the online poetry magazine SHAMPOO (www.ShampooPoetry.com) and his first solo chapbook, "Cinema Yosemite," will be coming out from Pressed Wafer later this year. He was a regular poetry contributor to Boston public radio’s "Here and Now" and has had poetry published in a Pressed Wafer "Two-fer" and in various insurgent magazines. Drew Gardner's recent books include Water Table (Situations) and Student Studies (Detour). He edits Snare magazine, and lives in New York City. See you there, Avery E. D. Burns __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:05:39 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hughes I like to a point. But I feel he lacks the capacity for intensity and compression of detail that Plath acheived: my further point re her was more or less that her acheivement would have been the greater sans her seemingly self-imposed "darkness": or that these reasons or causes (of her depression or "darkness") as much as they did not lead inevitably to her own suicide may have been fought against and possibly overcome or borne somewhat...if she had lived longer - or more to the pont in a happier frame of mind so to speak - her work would have been or could have been a greater acheivement. (I also raised the problem of individual human resposiblitity she seems to have neglected in regard to the life of her own children.) But I dont want to go down the road of "inspirational" and so on: I'm not even sure that Plath hadnt wriiten the best ehe would ever write. maybe there was no hope for her. Certainly not someone whose example I would want my own daughters to follow. As it happens I dont think either have much interest in her...they are more interested in music (they have a band the two of them)... one daughter at University admired Lyn Heijinian's "My Life" which is by and large a "positive" document....it could hardly have been written by a chronic depressive: which is quite different from someone who has in his/her life had a various life experience with passion and sufferingas well as joy and "all the ills the flesh is heir to..." These are my quick thoughts on this which arose origninally from a discussion on Hannah Weiner and her interesting and original style of work and the way she aparently hallucinated into seing the words infront of her which she then wrote down. Good to hear from you Bill me old mate. Regarsd all, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 2:02 AM Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath > In a message dated 7/20/01 8:24:14 AM, richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ writes: > > << My feelings about Plath are, on reading her again and keeping > > as much biographical things "at bay" as much as possible, she is a > > remarkable poet: one of America's greatest.Or one of the world's. Easily a > > greater poet than Hughes. A poet with an extraordinary native ability and > > great energy in composition. >> > > Jumping in, I must agree, for the most part. But Hughes' Crow is on a par, I > think. Which may say more about my tastes than it does the quality of these > poets. Best, Bill > > William James Austin.com > Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:10:13 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What is too young? Too old? Too any thing? Too big? Too small? Too happy? Nothing is so. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Bianchi" To: Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 11:23 PM Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath > poppycock, Plath died too young to be called great I think that she had > potential to be great. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "richard.tylr" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 9:24 AM > Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath > > > > Dodie etal. My feelings about Plath are, on reading her again and keeping > > as much biographical things "at bay" as much as possible, she is a > > remarkable poet: one of America's greatest.Or one of the world's. Easily > a > > greater poet than Hughes. A poet with an extraordinary native ability and > > great energy in composition. > > I cant comment on her prose as when I read The Bell Jar I was rather > > depressed myself. I dint like the "negative side of her...but that is no > > objectie objection, just a response at the time. But certainly she and > some > > of te othe so called "confessionals" have been denigrated or inadvertently > > "spoiled" by their admirers. I like those writers as well as the less > > "direct" poets. I see Berryman and Roethke as intermediate somwhat. > Plath's > > work has the craftmanship or craftiness? of eg Dylan Thomas without the > > tendency toward ovekill and or overkill or oversaturation in adjectives > and > > a drowning in sound..but any way Thomas is doing rather different things. > My > > thoughts. Ragards, Richard. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dodie Bellamy" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 9:20 AM > > Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath > > > > > > > Elizabeth, > > > > > > Thanks for the post on Plath. In the Journals I too was impressed > > > with all the natural prose genius she had that seemed to get > > > suppressed as she became serious. Her ability to describe place and > > > capture atmosphere was astonishing. But, then she'd get into > > > crafting a Story and the writing would turn sour. > > > > > > I recently read an excellent article on Plath (Kevin found it and > > > told me about it): > > > > > > http://www.laweekly.com/ink/01/30/books-fraser.shtml > > > > > > Plather > > > by Caroline Fraser > > > New books on Sylvia and Ted > > > > > > In it Fraser talks about the Plath industry, particularly that horrid > > > Sylvia and Ted "novel" by Emma Tennant. (I reviewed the Tennant book > > > myself, as well as Plath's journals--as a fan, not a scholar.) > > > Fraser does a great job of summing up all the controversy around > > > Plath, but then she, thank god, turns to Plath's poetic abilities, > > > how radically she revisioned the fluffy notion of Poetess. She takes > > > Plath's poetry very seriously: > > > > > > "Plath has a claim--perhaps a claim greater than any woman poet > > > before or since--to true greatness, but it has impossible for anyone, > > > including her husband to come to terms with it." > > > > > > I was intrigued by her position that greatness is hard to handle if > > > it comes in a troublesome package, and I was heartened by Fraser's > > > praise of Plath. Radically revising anything female can be a > > > thankless job (or, in my case, keep one from getting jobs). > > > > > > Dodie > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:20:18 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Grammar and Agency in Genoa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Aaron. They meant (and in todys rush of events it is quite iunderstandable but you must understand that in a les intellectual or more sedate and harmonious world such things would never occur) to say: "...the violence left...one protester injured and the other seriously dead..." which means, well, its hard NOT to be seriously dead. Then I suppose if one was dead one would be dead....grammar wouldnt matter. Sounds as though there's a lot of vigorous and rather jolly fun and games going on around about Genoa these days. I wish the bloody world WOULD hurry up and warm up its as cold as a thousand bastards here in Auckland or am I getting old? Any way: my vote is for Global Warming! Long Live Global Warming! Long live cow flatulence! Regards, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Vidaver" To: Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 1:32 PM Subject: Grammar and Agency in Genoa There are some curious grammatical constructions in today's media coverage of the G8 events. Check out this one, from a BBC news article: "The violence in Genoa on Friday left one protester dead and another seriously injured." Is there a technical name from grammar, rhetoric or an affiliated study for this type of substitution--from a specific material agent/subject ("the police") to a general process(?) ("the violence")? The BBC article is on-line at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_1448000/1448751.stm Attitional reports are accumulating at: Infoshop: http://www.infoshop.org/news6/genoa.html Indymedia Global: http://www.indymedia.org Indymedia Italy: http://italy.indymedia.org A photo sequence of the killing (apparently, of a man named Carlo Giuliani) is at: http://www.elpais.es/fotografia/especiales/secuencia/1.html Also, this article in today's New York Times. How did it come to be that the concept of "anti-globalization" was substituted for "anti-capitalism"? A few minutes ago G.W. Bush stated in a broadcast that he disagrees with the "isolationism" and "protectionism" of the anti-G8 activists. Who is he talking about? Aaron Vidaver Published on Friday, July 20, 2001 in the New York Times What the Protesters in Genoa Want by Michael Hardt and Antonio Negri Genoa, that Renaissance city known for both openness and shrewd political sophistication, is in crisis this weekend. It should have thrown its gates wide for the celebration of this summit of the world's most powerful leaders. But instead Genoa has been transformed into a medieval fortress of barricades with high-tech controls. The ruling ideology about the present form of globalization is that there is no alternative. And strangely, this restricts both the rulers and the ruled. Leaders of the Group of Eight have no choice but to attempt a show of political sophistication. They try to appear charitable and transparent in their goals. They promise to aid the world's poor and they genuflect to Pope John Paul II and his interests. But the real agenda is to renegotiate relations among the powerful, on issues such as the construction of missile defense systems. The leaders, however, seem detached somehow from the transformations around them, as though they are following the stage directions from a dated play. We can see the photo already, though it has not yet been taken: President George W. Bush as an unlikely king, bolstered by lesser monarchs. This is not quite an image of the future. It resembles more an archival photo, pre-1914, of superannuated royal potentates. Those demonstrating against the summit in Genoa, however, are not distracted by these old-fashioned symbols of power. They know that a fundamentally new global system is being formed. It can no longer be understood in terms of British, French, Russian or even American imperialism. The many protests that have led up to Genoa were based on the recognition that no national power is in control of the present global order. Consequently protests must be directed at international and supranational organizations, such as the G-8, the World Trade Organization, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. The movements are not anti-American, as they often appear, but aimed at a different, larger power structure. If it is not national but supranational powers that rule today's globalization, however, we must recognize that this new order has no democratic institutional mechanisms for representation, as nation-states do: no elections, no public forum for debate. The rulers are effectively blind and deaf to the ruled. The protesters take to the streets because this is the form of expression available to them. The lack of other venues and social mechanisms is not their creation. Antiglobalization is not an adequate characterization of the protesters in Genoa (or Göteborg, Quebec, Prague, or Seattle). The globalization debate will remain hopelessly confused, in fact, unless we insist on qualifying the term globalization. The protesters are indeed united against the present form of capitalist globalization, but the vast majority of them are not against globalizing currents and forces as such; they are not isolationist, separatist or even nationalist. The protests themselves have become global movements and one of their clearest objectives is for the democratization of globalizing processes. It should not be called an antiglobalization movement. It is pro-globalization, or rather an alternative globalization movement - one that seeks to eliminate inequalities between rich and poor and between the powerful and the powerless, and to expand the possibilities of self-determination. If we understand one thing from the multitude of voices in Genoa this weekend, it should be that a different and better future is possible. When one recognizes the tremendous power of the international and supranational forces that support our present form of globalization, one could conclude that resistance is futile. But those in the streets today are foolish enough to believe that alternatives are possible - that "inevitability" should not be the last word in politics. A new species of political activist has been born with a spirit that is reminiscent of the paradoxical idealism of the 1960's - the realistic course of action today is to demand what is seemingly impossible, that is, something new. Protest movements are an integral part of a democratic society and, for this reason alone, we should all thank those in the streets in Genoa, whether we agree with them or not. Protest movements, however, do not provide a practical blueprint for how to solve problems, and we should not expect that of them. They seek rather to transform the public agenda by creating political desires for a better future. We see seeds of that future already in the sea of faces that stretches from the streets of Seattle to those of Genoa. One of the most remarkable characteristics of these movements is their diversity: trade unionists together with ecologists together with priests and communists. We are beginning to see emerge a multitude that is not defined by any single identity, but can discover commonality in its multiplicity. These movements are what link Genoa this weekend most clearly to the openness - toward new kinds of exchange and new ideas - of its Renaissance past. Michael Hardt and Antonio Negri are the authors of "Empire.'' Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:03:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Clark Organization: RADDLE MOON Subject: Rachel Daley whereabouts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable if anyone knows where Rachel Daley is [last known in C=F4te d'Ivoire jun.= 00], please backchannel, or fwd this message to her many thanks! Susan -- Susan Clark, editor RADDLE MOON : poetry, poetics, long works, image/text, translation http://www.sfu.ca/~clarkd Vancouver, Canada ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:46:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Felsinger Subject: Call for Submissions / - V e R T #5 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit - V e R T an on line poetry magazine located at http://www.litvert.com is open to POETICS submissions as well as poems please submit by September 4th you can e-mit your submission to : andrew@litvert.com please send by attaching a MSWord.doc in Rich Text Format w/ your name on the manuscript(s) Possible poetics topics include, but are in no way limited to: work, publication, authorship, nutrition, dance, fame, unionizing, the mother ship, Afghanistan, 'zines, *art,* cartoons, photography, making things, thought, onanism, graduate school, teaching, sex, Communism, travel, thought experiments, post modernism, the dead, death, addiction, mania, disease, dystopia, Los Angeles, tattoos, shame, psychotherapy, science, feminism, politics, President Bush, music, the internet, the black death, love, kinetic energy, alcohol, ecology, highways, television, personism, ADD, plagiarism, Charles Bernstein, Freud, menial labor, your parents, your children, summer, winter, fall & spring, historical materialism, the Futurists, Fauvism, computer generated text, the Gnostics, nudity, idealism, the sun, plastic, reductionism, ethnicity, theatre, installations, assemblage, intellectualism, the Situationists, the free market, free love, collaboration, heteronyms, animism, editorship, the Dalai Lama, Madonna, Socialism, poverty, architecture, spelling, class, pot, tobacco, coffee, stock portfolios, Jeff Koons, Barbara Krueger, Slavoj Zizek, sexism, patriarchy, matriarchy, exercise, anthropomorphism, imperialism, Andy Wharolism, North Korea, Hinduism, the Vedas, political ontology, punk rock, existentialism, group think, debt, New York, San Francisco, the outerlands, screeds, the "I", the sentence, the "New" sentence, Stein, Beckett, Derrida, Kobe, terrorism, political action, the "other," depression, technology, the country of Micronesia, meditation, shop lifting, fast food, being pathetic, Being, institutional racism, the experimental writing community, Astroturf, prison, parataxis, compassion, Surrealism, the Green Party, sarcasm, global warming &/or writing... All Best, Andrew Felsinger Editor / - V e R T ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:05:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: fwd: audio recording of Walt Whitman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [silence] OT: audio recording of Walt Whitman Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:34:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Lowell Cross To: John Whiting CC: Silence list I know that this is off-topic, but there is a recording of Walt Whitman (probably) reading the first 4 lines of his poem "America" from _Leaves of Grass_. It was unearthed by Prof. Ed Folsom of our English faculty, and if authentic, it was recorded on an Edison wax cylinder within the last year or two of Whitman's life. Prof. Folsom is the editor of _The Walt Whitman Quarterly_ -- at least he was a few years ago when the recording became something of a "cause celebre." Its authenticity (or lack of same) was discussed in a _New York Times_ article. Lowell Cross The University of Iowa ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 06:06:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Carter Subject: they were nearby whispering Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" { } they were nearby whispering sometimes yelling night after video escape took off and ran down the street they were all over the place and where might this place be is it in here or is it out there or somewhere else is it time or is it space? the immediate desire or is it desire more than twitch or itch to modify switch it around what around? couldn't stop until something that could not be specified occurred was the way that it was it was simple like that and many fled the sign which earlier on revealed itself they left but not all but dwell longer than this no upon bloody reflection was part of the island but closer in spoke of with whom he walked some proximity glance got a glimpse of the guardian who would have thought that there was one in a place like this the water concrete and cables not to mention the constant whir of engines motors wheels gears pulleys drive-shafts crank-shafts vaguely recalled the vibe transmission of memory all the way into here every time that same attempted vision on the very much alive surface bristling bubbling shivering quaking shaking buckling caving slaving with activity the fantasy of wakeful life as opposed to a tendency to fall a loft t' sleep just the thought of it no this wasn't intended for that particular group you speak of no not that one no it was intended for this other one over here as a master of vast but now it is no longer clear the importance of that over this or this over that the cover excitement their colors for a sample of attraction and energizing interest well it has all taken write off for elsewear indeed another wrap another engagement another envelope for these flying letters flying out all over everything without apparent concern for craze trend wave or ling up around the block since the wee hours of the artificial darkness let alone the made-up illumination of the workday or play no less arrayed out agloss a blick curved bed of debt the allure is unbearably irresistible we found ourselves bound to a weekly round of return and compelled to get new ones now the new major expense in paint of fate: Shimmer Rose was one of the translucencies wondered why they did not include the I eat plural-ending selections so prominent at the Y let alone wonder or how could it be to arrive or come over for the afternoon much less spin the night into itself deepest before Dawn could gather herself undo herself into the newly written new day hardly finished when something new and unexpected though quite normal when you stop t' think about it occurves around all eligible matchlers she was craftlike in her space-heatedness eager to reach down and switch the channel on someone's reality of perception now sensed to have awaken in a bed other than one's own in a room other than one's own but for some reason not alarmed near as much as you'd think one would flip the buck out onto the street and repeat until salad green has become the street's color of allure about witch it all is an advert to your path waiting room too as you've quite noticed while contemplating what's inside your mouth and what's about to be done with it but first some time with others equally detained and softened up by printed master the lights were all turned off or turned out deceptions ready for screening launch stray appenned the air high glow so hide inside the refrigerator some well cooled-off batteries at the ready for the task of re-energizing the blue plastic elastic clock just out of reach requiring a precarious stretch just beyond the outer limits of stability the teetering dizzy little son of a hitch overseeds broadcast an ink recovery programmed t' bling all fugitives back into the common instrumental fold clean and oil your equipments shiny humming along the eyeway brought to gather apart a part of the party animal fastforward dissection lovehate intercut unload for the roadflight campaign a good-vintage fizz for now a foreign flick deride flicker a jumpy viewer up for a snack and relief after pressing pause for the gauze -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 23:49:08 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Re: Sugar Mule -- Call for manuscripts (correction) In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Marc... I would like to submint to Mule, bu tI have a couple questions.. did yo mean the dead line was Feb. 15, 2001...? 0r 2001..or isthis an old message? is there a size restriction? thank you kari on 7/23/01 8:21 AM, M L Weber at mlweber@HOTMAIL.COM wrote: > Sugar Mule > > www.sugarmule.com > > > is looking for new work -- esp. prose (any genre) -- > for its 10th issue-- > > you will need to meet the theme of the phrase: "on the road" > > > Deadline for submissions is Feb. 15, 2001. > > We also welcome any comments you might have. > > thank you, > > Marc L. Weber > ed. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 15:28:48 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Bob and Um, Er..... that 'great' tag is a thing to hold gingerly for a start, methinks. That there is poetry that is 'great' I would unsophisticatedly and fuzzily agree, but I am chary of the adjective's application. With Plath, she's a complex case, I do myself feel a certain reservation at aspects of luridity in some of her most-touted pieces, such as parts of 'Daddy', altho' at the same time I'd aver the psychological validity of such pieces. I most like of Plath's poems such as the Bee-box loose sequence, and some of the shorter poems, like 'You're' or the title poem of 'Ariel', but I would be uneasy at a notion of the superiority of the 'Crow' poems to Plath's later work, I feel there is a 'within-ness' of speech in some of her work that is absent from the pounding rhetoric and cartoon effects of 'Crow', forceful though it is. Best David Bircumshaw ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Grumman" To: Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 6:08 PM Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath > > poppycock, Plath died too young to be called great I think that she > > had potential to be great. > > As an admirer of Keats, levy, Marlowe and Shelley, all of whom I > consider great, I can't agree that Plath was too young to be > called great. I find her to have been too uneven to be called great, > in her oeuvre as a whole and in most of her individual poems. At her > best, though, she was terrific (e.g., "my heart is a stopped > geranium.") I think Hughes's Crow poems a superior sustained effort > than anything she did, but suspect that he couldn't have done them > without her example. Disclaimer: I can't say I've studied her work > enough to have > anything near what I'd call a valid opinion of it. I'm also > prejudiced against the kind of confessional poems, like "Daddy," > that she was best-known for. > --Bob G. > > > on it that I'd be willing to > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "richard.tylr" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 9:24 AM > > Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath > > > > > Dodie etal. My feelings about Plath are, on reading her again and keeping > > > as much biographical things "at bay" as much as possible, she is a > > > remarkable poet: one of America's greatest.Or one of the world's. Easily > > a > > > greater poet than Hughes. A poet with an extraordinary native ability and > > > great energy in composition. > > > I cant comment on her prose as when I read The Bell Jar I was rather > > > depressed myself. I dint like the "negative side of her...but that is no > > > objectie objection, just a response at the time. But certainly she and > > some > > > of te othe so called "confessionals" have been denigrated or inadvertently > > > "spoiled" by their admirers. I like those writers as well as the less > > > "direct" poets. I see Berryman and Roethke as intermediate somwhat. > > Plath's > > > work has the craftmanship or craftiness? of eg Dylan Thomas without the > > > tendency toward ovekill and or overkill or oversaturation in adjectives > > and > > > a drowning in sound..but any way Thomas is doing rather different things. > > My > > > thoughts. Ragards, Richard. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Dodie Bellamy" > > > To: > > > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 9:20 AM > > > Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath > > > > > > > > > > Elizabeth, > > > > > > > > Thanks for the post on Plath. In the Journals I too was impressed > > > > with all the natural prose genius she had that seemed to get > > > > suppressed as she became serious. Her ability to describe place and > > > > capture atmosphere was astonishing. But, then she'd get into > > > > crafting a Story and the writing would turn sour. > > > > > > > > I recently read an excellent article on Plath (Kevin found it and > > > > told me about it): > > > > > > > > http://www.laweekly.com/ink/01/30/books-fraser.shtml > > > > > > > > Plather > > > > by Caroline Fraser > > > > New books on Sylvia and Ted > > > > > > > > In it Fraser talks about the Plath industry, particularly that horrid > > > > Sylvia and Ted "novel" by Emma Tennant. (I reviewed the Tennant book > > > > myself, as well as Plath's journals--as a fan, not a scholar.) > > > > Fraser does a great job of summing up all the controversy around > > > > Plath, but then she, thank god, turns to Plath's poetic abilities, > > > > how radically she revisioned the fluffy notion of Poetess. She takes > > > > Plath's poetry very seriously: > > > > > > > > "Plath has a claim--perhaps a claim greater than any woman poet > > > > before or since--to true greatness, but it has impossible for anyone, > > > > including her husband to come to terms with it." > > > > > > > > I was intrigued by her position that greatness is hard to handle if > > > > it comes in a troublesome package, and I was heartened by Fraser's > > > > praise of Plath. Radically revising anything female can be a > > > > thankless job (or, in my case, keep one from getting jobs). > > > > > > > > Dodie > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 10:49:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Levitsky Subject: Re: Oakland poetry & music event -- Gudath, Kaipa, Schwartz In-Reply-To: <20010708215258.83607.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi jay this seems very cool, how'd it go?> Rachel -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Jay Schwartz Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 5:53 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Oakland poetry & music event -- Gudath, Kaipa, Schwartz Friday, July 13th: A night of experimental music, film and poetry Featuring: Poets Summi Kaipa & Lauren Gudath Filmmaker Kirthi Nath Musical group Oscopy, with Jay Schwartz, Vanessa Wang, and Colin Shipman A ruckus. Image, text, sound. At: 21 Grand, 21 Grand Avenue, Oakland California, 8:00 PM. 510-444-7263 www.21grand.com ================= > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 10:38:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ANASTASIOS KOZAITIS Subject: Re: fwd: audio recording of Walt Whitman In-Reply-To: <3B5CD7FD.50A079AE@mwt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I have a copy of this. At 10:05 PM 7/23/01, you wrote: >Subject: > [silence] OT: audio recording of Walt Whitman > Date: > Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:34:20 -0500 (CDT) > From: > Lowell Cross > To: > John Whiting > CC: > Silence list > > > > >I know that this is off-topic, but there is a recording of Walt Whitman >(probably) reading the first 4 lines of his poem "America" from _Leaves >of Grass_. It was unearthed by Prof. Ed Folsom of our English faculty, >and if authentic, it was recorded on an Edison wax cylinder within the >last year or two of Whitman's life. Prof. Folsom is the editor of _The >Walt Whitman Quarterly_ -- at least he was a few years ago when the >recording became something of a "cause celebre." Its authenticity (or >lack of same) was discussed in a _New York Times_ article. > >Lowell Cross >The University of Iowa ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 10:54:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Liu, Timothy" Subject: Village Reading: Covino, Elledge & Liu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Timothy Liu (author if HARD EVIDENCE, just out from Talisman House) will be reading with Peter Covino and Jim Elledge for a night of gay raucous fun in the open-air garden patio at: Caffe Sha Sha 510 Hudson (@ Christopher) Tuesday, July 31, 7 p.m. One drink minimum Info: 718-786-3157 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 15:28:07 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: roger.day@GLOBALGRAPHICS.COM Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Youth shouldnt preclude greatness - but then, I think it's too early to call Hughes -or- Plath great. Times' Great Sieve comes sifting through...or something like that. At 24/07/2001 01:10:13, "richard.tylr" wrote: # What is too young? Too old? Too any thing? Too big? Too small? Too happy? # Nothing is so. Richard Taylor. # ----- Original Message ----- # From: "Ray Bianchi" # To: # Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 11:23 PM # Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath # # # > poppycock, Plath died too young to be called great I think that she had # > potential to be great. # > ----- Original Message ----- # > From: "richard.tylr" # > To: # > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 9:24 AM # > Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath # > # > # > > Dodie etal. My feelings about Plath are, on reading her again and # keeping # > > as much biographical things "at bay" as much as possible, she is a # > > remarkable poet: one of America's greatest.Or one of the world's. # Easily # > a # > > greater poet than Hughes. A poet with an extraordinary native ability # and # > > great energy in composition. # > > I cant comment on her prose as when I read The Bell Jar I was rather # > > depressed myself. I dint like the "negative side of her...but that is no # > > objectie objection, just a response at the time. But certainly she and # > some # > > of te othe so called "confessionals" have been denigrated or # inadvertently # > > "spoiled" by their admirers. I like those writers as well as the less # > > "direct" poets. I see Berryman and Roethke as intermediate somwhat. # > Plath's # > > work has the craftmanship or craftiness? of eg Dylan Thomas without the # > > tendency toward ovekill and or overkill or oversaturation in adjectives # > and # > > a drowning in sound..but any way Thomas is doing rather different # things. # > My # > > thoughts. Ragards, Richard. # > > ----- Original Message ----- # > > From: "Dodie Bellamy" # > > To: # > > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 9:20 AM # > > Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath # > > # > > # > > > Elizabeth, # > > > # > > > Thanks for the post on Plath. In the Journals I too was impressed # > > > with all the natural prose genius she had that seemed to get # > > > suppressed as she became serious. Her ability to describe place and # > > > capture atmosphere was astonishing. But, then she'd get into # > > > crafting a Story and the writing would turn sour. # > > > # > > > I recently read an excellent article on Plath (Kevin found it and # > > > told me about it): # > > > # > > > http://www.laweekly.com/ink/01/30/books-fraser.shtml # > > > # > > > Plather # > > > by Caroline Fraser # > > > New books on Sylvia and Ted # > > > # > > > In it Fraser talks about the Plath industry, particularly that horrid # > > > Sylvia and Ted "novel" by Emma Tennant. (I reviewed the Tennant book # > > > myself, as well as Plath's journals--as a fan, not a scholar.) # > > > Fraser does a great job of summing up all the controversy around # > > > Plath, but then she, thank god, turns to Plath's poetic abilities, # > > > how radically she revisioned the fluffy notion of Poetess. She takes # > > > Plath's poetry very seriously: # > > > # > > > "Plath has a claim--perhaps a claim greater than any woman poet # > > > before or since--to true greatness, but it has impossible for anyone, # > > > including her husband to come to terms with it." # > > > # > > > I was intrigued by her position that greatness is hard to handle if # > > > it comes in a troublesome package, and I was heartened by Fraser's # > > > praise of Plath. Radically revising anything female can be a # > > > thankless job (or, in my case, keep one from getting jobs). # > > > # > > > Dodie # > > # Roger ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 10:52:55 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: ~ebr~ piece on creative writing pedagogy... Comments: cc: kass.fleisher@colorado.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" below, the official blurb for, among other things, a long piece by kass fleisher and mself, "reforming creative writing pedagogy: history as knowledge, knowledge as activism"... kass and i would both love to see as many responses as the spirits move... also in this ~ebr~, reactions to michael berube on postmodernism, and nick montfort on hyper-cybertext... best, joe -------------- This summer ebr presents a new cluster on Creative Writing programs featuring an extensive hypertext essay by Joe Amato and Kass Fleisher, who suggest that creative writing, particularly as found in the typical workshop, might benefit from a major, theoretically informed, re-visioning. RiPOSTes to the essay give conflicting assessments from inside and outside the workshop: David Radovich agrees, Sandra Huss claims that the reform is already underway, and Lance Olsen has in fact left the institution for the very reasons cited by Amato and Fleisher. In her riPOSTe, Marjorie Perloff addresses a secondary question: with the transformation of English into Cultural Studies, where else but in writing programs, will literature be read? ebr will continue to publish new riPOSTes of 300-500 words as the fall semester gets underway. the essay, introduction, and citation mill can all be accessed from http://www.altx.com/ebr/riposte/ In fact the riposte section has been especially active this summer; Michael Berube's provocation that postmodernism is no longer a viable academic descriptor draws responses from two ebr editors, while Nick Montfort's suggestion that 'hypertext' is being displaced by 'cybertext' draws fire, it seems, from the entire electronic writing community, among them Katherine Hayles, Marjorie Luesebrink, and Jim Rosenberg. An essay-length response by Markku Eskelinen is forthcoming in the fall. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:00:25 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Re: Call for Submissions / - V e R T #5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As this request has been posted, I don't think it inappropriate, as a CONTRIBUTOR to VeRT, that a previous issue included material posted to a listserv by myself and others, AGAINST our consent, and doctored, and also rehashed in parallel in a way that bordered on the defamatory. Andrew Felsinger did at least allow one contributor to voice her objections, but at the same time he removed the link to the listserv's archives, thus perpetuating the lies, and the magazine's editorial speaks faux-naively of 'having fun'. So I wonder bemusedly about such unabashed announcements of presence. To put it bluntly, Andrew, your magazine carries material by myself, against my wishes, I want it removed and you avoid the question. Why? David Bircumshaw ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Felsinger" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 2:46 AM Subject: Call for Submissions / - V e R T #5 > - V e R T > > an on line poetry magazine > > located at http://www.litvert.com > > is open to POETICS submissions > > as well as poems > > please submit by September 4th > > you can e-mit your submission to : andrew@litvert.com > > please send by attaching a MSWord.doc in > > Rich Text Format w/ your name on the manuscript(s) > > Possible poetics topics include, but are in no way limited to: work, > publication, authorship, nutrition, dance, fame, unionizing, the mother > ship, Afghanistan, 'zines, *art,* cartoons, photography, making things, > thought, onanism, graduate school, teaching, sex, Communism, travel, thought > experiments, post modernism, the dead, death, addiction, mania, disease, > dystopia, Los Angeles, tattoos, shame, psychotherapy, science, feminism, > politics, President Bush, music, the internet, the black death, love, > kinetic energy, alcohol, ecology, highways, television, personism, ADD, > plagiarism, Charles Bernstein, Freud, menial labor, your parents, your > children, summer, winter, fall & spring, historical materialism, the > Futurists, Fauvism, computer generated text, the Gnostics, nudity, idealism, > the sun, plastic, reductionism, ethnicity, theatre, installations, > assemblage, intellectualism, the Situationists, the free market, free love, > collaboration, heteronyms, animism, editorship, the Dalai Lama, Madonna, > Socialism, poverty, architecture, spelling, class, pot, tobacco, coffee, > stock portfolios, Jeff Koons, Barbara Krueger, Slavoj Zizek, sexism, > patriarchy, matriarchy, exercise, anthropomorphism, imperialism, Andy > Wharolism, North Korea, Hinduism, the Vedas, political ontology, punk rock, > existentialism, group think, debt, New York, San Francisco, the outerlands, > screeds, the "I", the sentence, the "New" sentence, Stein, Beckett, Derrida, > Kobe, terrorism, political action, the "other," depression, technology, the > country of Micronesia, meditation, shop lifting, fast food, being pathetic, > Being, institutional racism, the experimental writing community, Astroturf, > prison, parataxis, compassion, Surrealism, the Green Party, sarcasm, global > warming &/or writing... > > > All Best, > > Andrew Felsinger > > Editor / - V e R T > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 15:44:07 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Re: Grammar and Agency in Genoa In-Reply-To: <006201c113d6$6b89b300$332137d2@01397384> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, richard.tylr wrote: > Sounds as though there's a lot of > vigorous and rather jolly fun and games going on around about Genoa these > days. I wish the bloody world WOULD hurry up and warm up its as cold as a > thousand bastards here in Auckland or am I getting old? Any way: my vote is > for Global Warming! Long Live Global Warming! Long live cow flatulence! I'm not sure what part of the bloody violence in Genoa was the "jolly fun' bit. And weren't the global warming talks in Bonn? But not to get too serious here, you can have your cow farts, i want to get rid of car flatulence. Peddle Power!! Kevin ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:43:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: life/work [was Re: Sylvia Plath &c.] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elizabeth, If you were responding to something I wrote here, I think I was misunderstood - not for the first time in my life. > That said (quoted), I think it's a very silly protest that we are all lay > folks rather than psychiatrists -- once the shelves devoted to psychology at > your local megastore outnumber those devoted to poetry, everybody knows > something. as a professional and as a patient i don't have any difficulty with 'lay people' reading, writing, etc., about me or us - the more the merrier, actually, as the more open things are the better. The difficulty for me arises when somebody who's read a few books (or a thousand books) on psychology or biochemistry passes themselves off as an expert on people and makes pronouncements and diagnoses and then others go along with the armchair analyses. To put it bluntly here, you know as much about schizophrenic language and schizophrenogenic culture as Jameson. tom ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:59:59 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ammonides@AOL.COM Subject: poetry, illness, collaboration, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thomas Bell asked, "Is there a qualitative difference in poetic research condusted under the influence of induced substances (air, water, and pollen might also be includeed?) or internal influences (either biochemical or structural)?" Indeed, this was one of the questions I asked, and it seems an important one to grapple with if "the poetry of madness" is to be theorized, as Barrett Watten seemed to be suggesting it might, as a special aesthetic-theoretical problem. Again, if one regards schizophrenia as a condition which has a chemical-biological basis (as I'm sure Watten does!), then in what way could the poetry produced under its impacts be given (by "normal" critics, one presumes) a special ontological status vis a vis, say, any poetry produced under the influence of mind-altering chemical substances? Or, for that matter, the poetry produced by surrealists in the 20's and 30's under the altered neuro-chemical effects of sleep deprivation? Once one begins to demarcate illness as constituting some kind of exotic otherness, all sorts of "critical" pseudo-problems begin to emerge. For example, would a collaboration between Ron Silliman and Hannah Weiner need be considered (mediated and invaded by illness, as the text would be) in special critical ways as against a collaboration by Lyn Hejinian and Michael Palmer? Or, one could ask: what of criticism by someone experiencing mental illness? Is a listserv thread on poetry and madness somehow a "new and special object" once a brilliant young writer like Patrick Herron makes a contribution? Is the thread not now traced with the filaments of mental illness? In short, it is best to treat poets as poets, and to avoid inventing unnecessary theoretical problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:44:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Visions/Plath/poetry as conversation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "The poet demands we resist these reductions. Apparent, certainly, is = his empathy for the medieval exile adrift in political corruption. But = the interlacing of these two poetic velocities outpaces parallels; it = cries for collaboration, for a dynamic launching of the fluid, unstable = form underlying the circumscriptions of structure. Traces of this = insurgence inhere in a human and artistic conversation accomplished = across centuries and space, in the tangle of speech-roots that grow and = reach. "What distinguishes poetry from automatic speech is that it = rouses us and shakes us into wakefulness in the middle of a word. Then = it turns out that the word is much longer than we thought, and we = remember that to speak means to be forever on the road."=20 Volkman on Brodsky on Mandelstam on Dante http://www.poetrysociety.org/journal/articles/poetsonpolitics.html tom bell =3D<}}}}}}}}}****((((((((&&&&&&&&&~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Metaphor/Metonym for health at = http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Black Winds Press at = http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/blackwin.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:10:47 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: they were nearby whispering MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Daniel Etal. This motors along! Brilliant. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Carter" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 10:06 PM Subject: they were nearby whispering > { } > > > they were nearby whispering sometimes yelling night after video escape took > off and ran down the street they were all over the place and where might > this place be is it in here or is it out there or somewhere else is it time > or is it space? the immediate desire or is it desire more than twitch or > itch to modify switch it around what around? couldn't stop until something > that could not be specified occurred was the way that it was it was simple > like that and many fled the sign which earlier on revealed itself they left > but not all but dwell longer than this no upon bloody reflection was part > of the island but closer in spoke of with whom he walked some proximity > glance got a glimpse of the guardian who would have thought that there was > one in a place like this the water concrete and cables not to mention the > constant whir of engines motors wheels gears pulleys drive-shafts > crank-shafts vaguely recalled the vibe transmission of memory all the way > into here every time that same attempted vision on the very much alive > surface bristling bubbling shivering quaking shaking buckling caving > slaving with activity the fantasy of wakeful life as opposed to a tendency > to fall a loft t' sleep just the thought of it no this wasn't intended for > that particular group you speak of no not that one no it was intended for > this other one over here as a master of vast but now it is no longer clear > the importance of that over this or this over that the cover excitement > their colors for a sample of attraction and energizing interest well it has > all taken write off for elsewear indeed another wrap another engagement > another envelope for these flying letters flying out all over everything > without apparent concern for craze trend wave or ling up around the block > since the wee hours of the artificial darkness let alone the made-up > illumination of the workday or play no less arrayed out agloss a blick > curved bed of debt the allure is unbearably irresistible we found ourselves > bound to a weekly round of return and compelled to get new ones now the new > major expense in paint of fate: Shimmer Rose was one of the translucencies > wondered why they did not include the I eat plural-ending selections so > prominent at the Y let alone wonder or how could it be to arrive or come > over for the afternoon much less spin the night into itself deepest before > Dawn could gather herself undo herself into the newly written new day > hardly finished when something new and unexpected though quite normal when > you stop t' think about it occurves around all eligible matchlers she was > craftlike in her space-heatedness eager to reach down and switch the > channel on someone's reality of perception now sensed to have awaken in a > bed other than one's own in a room other than one's own but for some reason > not alarmed near as much as you'd think one would flip the buck out onto > the street and repeat until salad green has become the street's color of > allure about witch it all is an advert to your path waiting room too as > you've quite noticed while contemplating what's inside your mouth and > what's about to be done with it but first some time with others equally > detained and softened up by printed master the lights were all turned off > or turned out deceptions ready for screening launch stray appenned the air > high glow so hide inside the refrigerator some well cooled-off batteries at > the ready for the task of re-energizing the blue plastic elastic clock just > out of reach requiring a precarious stretch just beyond the outer limits of > stability the teetering dizzy little son of a hitch overseeds broadcast an > ink recovery programmed t' bling all fugitives back into the common > instrumental fold clean and oil your equipments shiny humming along the > eyeway brought to gather apart a part of the party animal fastforward > dissection lovehate intercut unload for the roadflight campaign a > good-vintage fizz for now a foreign flick deride flicker a jumpy viewer up > for a snack and relief after pressing pause for the gauze > > > > > > > > > > -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:12:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Tabbi Subject: ebr summer ripostes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This summer ebr presents a new cluster on Creative Writing programs featuring an extensive hypertext essay by Joe Amato and Kass Fleisher, who suggest that creative writing, particularly as found in the typical workshop, might benefit from a major, theoretically informed, re-visioning. RiPOSTes to the essay give conflicting assessments from inside and outside the workshop: David Radovich agrees, Sandra Huss claims that the reform is already underway, and Lance Olsen has in fact left the institution for the very reasons cited by Amato and Fleisher. In her riPOSTe, Marjorie Perloff addresses a secondary question: with the transformation of English into Cultural Studies, where else but in writing programs, will literature be read? ebr will continue to publish new riPOSTes of 300-500 words as the fall semester gets underway. the essay, introduction, and citation mill can all be accessed from http://www.altx.com/ebr/riposte/ In fact the riposte section has been especially active this summer; Michael Berube's provocation that postmodernism is no longer a viable academic descriptor draws responses from two ebr editors, while Nick Montfort's suggestion that 'hypertext' is being displaced by 'cybertext' draws fire, it seems, from the entire electronic writing community =96 among them Katherine Hayles, Marjorie Luesebrink, and Jim Rosenberg. An essay-length response by Markku Eskelinen is forthcoming in the fall. ! ! ! ^ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:48:08 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Lee Wiens Subject: Contact info for Kit Robinson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Could anyone out there please backchannel me contact info (e-mail preferably) for Kit Robinson? Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:44:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: substances MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the way this discussion is developing it might be worthwhile looking at = some recent developments and controversies concerning how the brain = really works. Dr. Andreasen was once an English major and according to one of those = 'newsblurbs' I saw on TV is studying schizophrenia as a disruption in = the connections of sense of smell to emotions. bizarre it may seem, but = also plausible and it could be exciting. http://www.uihealthcare.com/news/pacemaker/1999/mayjune/andreasen.html the second link is to an article on the real effects of antidepressants = on the brain. http://www.discover.com/current_issue/index.html article in July 2001 by = Greenberg on serotonin. tom, wandering off the literary rails here. =3D<}}}}}}}}}****((((((((&&&&&&&&&~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Metaphor/Metonym for health at = http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Black Winds Press at = http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/blackwin.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:38:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Subject: Small Press Traffic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Small Press Traffic invites you to become a member, or renew your membership! Do so in August to be sure to receive the Fall/Winter issue of our fearless and fabulous newsletter, Traffic, which will include Kevin Killian's report on on spring fashion/poetry/music event, plus reports on poetic situations in Los Angeles (by Catherine Daly) and New Orleans (by Camille Martin). We also include reviews of new books by Avery Burns, Dan Farrell, Kathleen Fraser, Renee Gladman, E. Tracy Grinnell, Lisa Jarnot, Lisa Robertson, and Chris Tysh, plus a poem by Juliana Spahr. Memberships start at $40, $30 for students and seniors, and include free admission to all of our events. Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Executive Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCAC 1111 Eighth Street San Francisco, California 94107 415/551-9278 http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 15:56:07 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: Re: ~ebr~ piece on creative writing pedagogy... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe and Kass and all-- thank you for that thorough and biting critique of creative writing pedagogy, along with some suggestions as to how to remedy the "Wonder Boys" problem (to say nothing of the "Finding Forrester" conundrum, even with Mr. Bernstein as the principal). As head of creative writing at UH (which title I was given by default) several years ago, I tried to effect a change from program A to program B, namely from Wonder Boys to a less firmly male-gendered and crafty notion of writing pedagogy. I can attest to the (personal) bitterness and rancor that ensue when such a shift is even proposed. One example of the way in which A and Bers talk in utterly different languages occured obliquely in a graduate class I taught in thinking about creative writing. I found myself confronted with a number of students who were not only against theory, but against criticism itself! (They were influenced by members of another wing of the program, needless to say.) So I wonder how we encourage students to think about writing through theory, or even criticism, when the "powers that be" tend to operate from the workshop/craft model. Here it took a year and a half of struggle, and bad feelings to last a lifetime. (Let me add that I'm now more optimistic about the program...) Another complexity: many of Hawai`i's finest writers--and most famous, including Lois-Ann Yamanaka--have come out of the UH writing program. The master/apprentice model that you discuss operated between one of our professors and these students. She has elicited wonderful material from them. But: one wonders at the colonial apparatus at work. The teacher is white, her students mostly Asian (and I'm thinking also of a Hawaiian/Filipino poet who worked with her). How to think through that power scheme.... While white writers here, such as Ian MacMillan when he writes about Hawai`i without consulting Hawaiians, have been sharply criticized, and while Yamanaka has been attacked for her representations of Filipino men, the onus has not been put on a program that may, in fact, encourage such problems. Yes, I'm sure you talk about that in gender terms--women asked to uphold the rules that operate against them. And so some writers in Hawai`i who started out as revolutionaries for a local literature are now upholding an "aesthetic" model, proclaiming a distinterest in "political literature." And their aesthetics, unsurprisingly, often come from their teachers--even if the content of their work is different from the "will it sell in New York?" model of the 70s, say. Of course, it _does_ sell in NYC now, but that's another story, indeed. But I'd love to hear strategies for dealing with these issues. Strategies for better teaching our students in a non-colonial way; strategies for changing writing programs from within; strategies for trading our knowledges with each other. thanks again, Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Amato" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 6:52 AM Subject: ~ebr~ piece on creative writing pedagogy... > below, the official blurb for, among other things, a long piece by kass > fleisher and mself, "reforming creative writing pedagogy: history as > knowledge, knowledge as activism"... > > kass and i would both love to see as many responses as the spirits move... > > also in this ~ebr~, reactions to michael berube on postmodernism, and nick > montfort on hyper-cybertext... > > best, > > joe > > -------------- > > This summer ebr presents a new cluster on Creative Writing programs > featuring an extensive hypertext essay by Joe Amato and Kass Fleisher, who > suggest that creative writing, particularly as found in the typical > workshop, might benefit from a major, theoretically informed, > re-visioning. RiPOSTes to the essay give conflicting assessments from > inside and outside the workshop: David Radovich agrees, Sandra Huss claims > that the reform is already underway, and Lance Olsen has in fact left the > institution for the very reasons cited by Amato and Fleisher. In her > riPOSTe, Marjorie Perloff > addresses a secondary question: with the transformation of English into > Cultural Studies, where else but in writing programs, will literature be > read? ebr will continue to publish new riPOSTes of 300-500 words as the > fall semester gets underway. > > the essay, introduction, and citation mill can all be accessed from > > http://www.altx.com/ebr/riposte/ > > In fact the riposte section has been especially active this summer; > Michael Berube's provocation that postmodernism is no longer a viable > academic descriptor draws responses from two ebr editors, while Nick > Montfort's suggestion that 'hypertext' is being displaced by 'cybertext' > draws fire, it seems, from the entire electronic writing community, among > them Katherine Hayles, Marjorie Luesebrink, and Jim Rosenberg. An > essay-length response by Markku Eskelinen is forthcoming in the fall. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:06:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath Comments: To: BobGrumman@nut-n-but.net In-Reply-To: <3B5C5A0E.5231@nut-n-but.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 1:08 PM -0400 7/23/01, Bob Grumman wrote: >anything near what I'd call a valid opinion of it. I'm also >prejudiced against the kind of confessional poems, like "Daddy," >that she was best-known for. I don't see how "Daddy" is confessional. It's a nursery-rhyme performance piece. And Plath wrote a lot of other poems in other styles. Daddy is supposed to be irritating and I think it does what she wanted it to do. As far as the rest of the discussion about whether Plath is "great" or not--I certainly wouldn't use the word "great" myself to describe anybody. I liked Fraser's use of it, just because to say anything positive about Plath as Poet is such a radical intervention. The whole notion of "greatness" reeks of The Cannon, which we on the poetic list are supposed to be against, right? (This is a gentle joke, folks.) Dodie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:48:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: an apology, complicated Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jeffrey Jullich asked me to apologize on list, so I forward this. Elizabeth Hi Jeffrey, Well I am sorry you feel this way, I really am. I will apologize on list, no problem. I guess I did use the word "friend" too brashly, and I apologize for that as well. I do consider you part of my community of writers, and that that was clear by our having published you in Outlet. I don't think everyone agrees with Double Lucy's "feminist agenda" if it is indeed quite that, and I have certainly been and seen others "ambushed" on the list as much as I may have ambushed you. I was trying to point to a way in which things can get grevious on the list, which is part of what scares me away from it, which I think is bad, partly because I consider myself part of this community, and partly because I know a lot, a lot, of women who don't contribute to this conversation because it so often gets ugly. I thought since we had corresponded in the past, and I had published your work so clearly I do admire it, it would be ok to talk about these things through a comment on your comments to Camille. I still do think they were a bit harsh and bossy, but to each his own. I haven't heard from her or from Charles Bernstein, or Tim the list monitor (I thought it was Chris?).... anyway, hope we can move forward from here. Your message certainly has traumatized me, and I claim I am as sensitive as you, dear sir. Let's try to be more civil, or more distanced, in future. Please note that I was sensitive and perceptive and, I might say, "friendly" enough to approach you about how you felt backchannel. But hey, I'm no sweetie just cause I'm a girl, nor do I think I should have to be so; nor do I agree that "no man" would come at you like I did. Sincerely Elizabeth ___________________________________________ Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page2.html ___________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:58:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: ~ebr~ piece on creative writing pedagogy... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (How will I ever get anything done and get back to the objects of ~my~ interest and commitment, this list is so distracting and engrossing!) What I've already skimmed of the 57-pp. print-out of your fascinatingly argued, rousingly oratorical paper looks like it's gonna be quite a read. Good shot! Prior to tomorrow's (anon's) more specific replies, let me just say a couple of related thoughts recently on my mind, a convergence of illuminating accidences: ENGLISH LITERATURE AS ORPHAN OF HISTORY DEPARTMENT I've been reading Milton's Latin poetry (huh?); recently, I read Anthony Knerr's impeccable, critical edition of Shelley's "Adonais" manuscript. What handicaps my appreciation of poetry, I'm learning --- with Milton, the importance of the Guy Fawkes Gunpowder Plot (so relevant and 2001, with "terrorists" driving explosives around like Good Humor trucks!) and later anti-monarchist Cromwell-ism for Milton; with Shelley, Tory party politics for Shelley (he accused Tory critics of causing Keats' death) --- is my utter lack of preparation in ~History.~ But I barely recall taking a single history class, although I must've (curriculum requirements)! Imaginative, fantastical or mythological poetry seemingly devoid of political or historical reference begins to seem stridently agitprop: the whole of ~Paradise Lost~ could/should be read as Milton's autobiographical regicide remorse; even the ~prevalence~ of a mythological setting in Greek tragedy was a response to popular failures on record for when the dramatists attempted still contemporary historical subjects to an unreceptive or hostile response that forced a retreat back into anachronistic Iliad subject matter, . . . etc. Simultaneously, I was very taken by an essay ("New Hope for The Disappeared") where Ron Silliman pinpoints the "birth" of the English Dept.: 1828, London University, Thomas Dale, the first professor of English literature. --- In a naive way, I doubt I'd ever ~imagined~ an antedeluvian academia without an English Department! And, lastly, Claudia Rankine's (and Carolyn Crumbpacker's) Poetry-for-Teachers-of-Teenagers reading last week, where Rankine unveiled (drum roll) their www.newmediapoets.com Manifesto. Their critique: they notice that with everything they read in journals these days, there's no telling when it was written, given the poem's autonomous world; they want more name-naming ("Bush, Microsoft, Nike") and they're invoking (French pronunciation) "engagement" . . . ("Nike"? as in Victory of Samothrace? Note to self: buy/find a newspaper) (I see holes in their critique --- newmediapoets as a literary ~Grease~ [the musical] or "Return to the '60's"/Pop; the non-recognition that formalist features alone [the asyntactical, "free verse," open field] absolutely date what's printed today with a definite ~terminus post quem;~ XXth cent. American heteroglossia/polyvocality as the microcosm of surrounding mass media journalism; the mere ~existence~ of certain authorial identities [Black, gay, ?feminist] as periodized; the abandonment of the political as "content" as a ~conscious,~ '80's, collective committee fiat of the Language Patriarchs, etc., etc. --- but still, I'm enthused by their direction.) Which is to say, the daydream begins--- ---poetry lost its "relevance" when the pedagogical needs to explain the ever-increasing allusions/elusiveness in poetry's synthetic language became greater than those poetic idiolects' vestigial resemblance to a normative discourse, ---note!--- a normative discourse that continues as the preferred vehicle of history and which would, in turn, have needed at least some common ground of articulation to crosspollinate with the poem's historical context or, vice-versa, the poem as explaining/augmenting historical particulars. Next: "Autobiographia Literaria of a Total Failure" or "Avant-Gardist Manque'" . . . . . . "How Being Born at The Wrong Time Alone Spared Me The Worse Degradation of an MFA" . . .: Late '60's/early '70's increased funding for high school Humanities in high school ~made~ me . . . new sentence: . . . The legitimate successor to the fallacious first-person "lyrical" I-subject is a description of individually experienced creative writing workshops, and their compot fruit . . . ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:52:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Re: the whole sylvia thing, &c Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Tom, I was actually responding to a one line barb someone sent in, about how we all shouldn't talk as are not psychiatrists. All I meant to note was that, sort of like the Bible, no matter what you do with your Sundays, it permeates...psychology, that is. Both Christianity and psychology, I'd say, from where I stand, influence my life in ways horrible and dear, mysterious and not, etc, no matter if I grew up in them/use them or not. >Elizabeth, If you were responding to something I wrote here, I think I was >misunderstood - not for the first time in my life. > >> That said (quoted), I think it's a very silly protest that we are all >lay > folks rather than psychiatrists -- once the shelves devoted to >psychology at > your >local megastore outnumber those devoted to poetry, everybody knows > >something. > >as a professional and as a patient i don't have any difficulty with 'lay >people' reading, writing, etc., about me or us - the more the merrier, >actually, as the >more open things are the better. The difficulty for me arises when >somebody who's read a few books (or a thousand books) on psychology or >biochemistry passes themselves off as an expert on people and makes >pronouncements and diagnoses and then others go along with the armchair >analyses. I agree, certainly. To put it bluntly here, you know as much about schizophrenic >language and schizophrenogenic culture as Jameson. > >tom But right back at ya, sweets, you don't know how much I know. Nor I you. With a wink and a nod, fellow traveler, Elizabeth ps thanks to Eileen Tabios for a friendly back channel pps I've only really read Plath's prose. ___________________________________________ Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page2.html ___________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:09:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: stabs, etc Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I tried to let this go, for about ten minutes, but I must say, Jeffrey's backchannel comment, "You don't know me from Adam, lady", struck as harsh a blow to my gender and person as any correspondence I've had the pleasure of receiving due to being on this list. It may have been my tired mood, having worked all day at Small Press Traffic cause I give a shit about literature, or, oh I don't know, email doesn't quite get the gist of people's _tones_. Well in this case I am grateful for that. ANYWAY, I don't do this stuff for the money or the pleasure, but because I care about literature, as I know we all do; I am sorry your cat died Jeffrey, cats are good people. I simply don't participate in these things just to hear boys blow their wads tho, and neither do the other hardworking young "lady" writers I happen to know. Elizabeth ___________________________________________ Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page2.html ___________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 21:47:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Felsinger Subject: Re: Call for Submissions / - V e R T #5 In-Reply-To: <02eb01c1146a$97737660$8bf4a8c0@netserver> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit David, The link to the poetryetc. listserve is indeed there, or, rather, here: A URL link to the full text of the British Poets' ListServe response to the Lacan text. http://www.litvert.com/issue%20%233/dearreaders.html Samantha Giles and I choose to publish Allison Croggon's complete posts, (edited, unedited,) as she calmly asked us to do. (Your back channel posts did not illicit the same reaction, surprisingly.) As for the posts you say, or, rather, assume, are yours... Well, they are not. These are the imaginative works of Jacques Debrot. This is clearly stated in the above link as: An edited, adulterated and poetic response to these posts written by one of the Lacan contributors, Jacques Debrot, along with an Introduction by Slavoj Zizek. Are you attempting to claim Jacques Debrot's work as your own? If anyone wishes to see for themselves what exactly had gone on, they certainly are welcome. As for your dismissive stately manner-- the gig, as they say, is up! Cheers, Andrew ----------------------------------------------- -VeRT "I am finally entangled clear." --Clark Coolidge http://www.litvert.com > From: "david.bircumshaw" > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:00:25 +0100 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Call for Submissions / - V e R T #5 > > As this request has been posted, I don't think it inappropriate, as a > CONTRIBUTOR to VeRT, that a previous issue included material posted to a > listserv by myself and others, AGAINST our consent, and doctored, and also > rehashed in parallel in a way that bordered on the defamatory. > > Andrew Felsinger did at least allow one contributor to voice her objections, > but at the same time he removed the link to the listserv's archives, thus > perpetuating the lies, and the magazine's editorial speaks faux-naively of > 'having fun'. > > So I wonder bemusedly about such unabashed announcements of presence. > > To put it bluntly, Andrew, your magazine carries material by myself, against > my wishes, I want it removed and you avoid the question. Why? > > David Bircumshaw > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andrew Felsinger" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 2:46 AM > Subject: Call for Submissions / - V e R T #5 > > >> - V e R T >> >> an on line poetry magazine >> >> located at http://www.litvert.com >> >> is open to POETICS submissions >> >> as well as poems >> >> please submit by September 4th >> >> you can e-mit your submission to : andrew@litvert.com >> >> please send by attaching a MSWord.doc in >> >> Rich Text Format w/ your name on the manuscript(s) >> >> Possible poetics topics include, but are in no way limited to: work, >> publication, authorship, nutrition, dance, fame, unionizing, the mother >> ship, Afghanistan, 'zines, *art,* cartoons, photography, making things, >> thought, onanism, graduate school, teaching, sex, Communism, travel, > thought >> experiments, post modernism, the dead, death, addiction, mania, disease, >> dystopia, Los Angeles, tattoos, shame, psychotherapy, science, feminism, >> politics, President Bush, music, the internet, the black death, love, >> kinetic energy, alcohol, ecology, highways, television, personism, ADD, >> plagiarism, Charles Bernstein, Freud, menial labor, your parents, your >> children, summer, winter, fall & spring, historical materialism, the >> Futurists, Fauvism, computer generated text, the Gnostics, nudity, > idealism, >> the sun, plastic, reductionism, ethnicity, theatre, installations, >> assemblage, intellectualism, the Situationists, the free market, free > love, >> collaboration, heteronyms, animism, editorship, the Dalai Lama, Madonna, >> Socialism, poverty, architecture, spelling, class, pot, tobacco, coffee, >> stock portfolios, Jeff Koons, Barbara Krueger, Slavoj Zizek, sexism, >> patriarchy, matriarchy, exercise, anthropomorphism, imperialism, Andy >> Wharolism, North Korea, Hinduism, the Vedas, political ontology, punk > rock, >> existentialism, group think, debt, New York, San Francisco, the > outerlands, >> screeds, the "I", the sentence, the "New" sentence, Stein, Beckett, > Derrida, >> Kobe, terrorism, political action, the "other," depression, technology, > the >> country of Micronesia, meditation, shop lifting, fast food, being > pathetic, >> Being, institutional racism, the experimental writing community, > Astroturf, >> prison, parataxis, compassion, Surrealism, the Green Party, sarcasm, > global >> warming &/or writing... >> >> >> All Best, >> >> Andrew Felsinger >> >> Editor / - V e R T >> > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 03:09:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: onna MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII 0 B B Aj\B PUr[gBiBj ? NIKUKO ????????????? ???? ? ?????? ( ?? 02:37:22 ) ???? ? ?????????????http://nikuko.oita.com.jp/ ???????????!! NIKUKO ? hello is nikuko speaking : i am very honored to be here daughter NIKUKO ? is this will be fun to talk with you now here in new york there NIKUKO ? it will never do stop! ( ?? 03:52:02 ) NIKUKO ? you will do stop this nOW! ( ?? 03:57:21 ) [[A[vt[YA are very many awful beauty girls in this dreamy chat ( ?? 03:51:51 ) of parents in brooklyn new york ( ?? 03:50:55 ) ANH l\[iXB A AjXSCB WCAsB NIKUKO ? DO not I LISTENto you Now Mrstr VOIC ( ?? 04:02:37 )glY~dreamy |B37:22 ) l|vB ALgoB wuvB u[A[vBO ? it will never do stop! ( ?? 03:52:02 ) NIKUKO ? Now you Wil kil ME DIE my PArents give Me order dIE ( ?? 04:01:07 ) _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 01:56:25 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: madison cawein Subject: innovative language magazines Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Could anyone list for me some print journals featuring innovative language poetry? I am familiar with conjunctions, facture, the Buffalo student magazines, and all the other well-known periodicals of that ilk, but I was wondering as to the existence of any journals like those that flourished in the heyday of the great L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E magazines. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:11:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Where else? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Marjorie Perloff addresses a secondary question: with the >transformation of English into Cultural Studies, where else >but in writing programs, will literature be read? 1. The subway (F train) 2. Living room futon 3. Online 4. Cafe Orlin 5. Central Park 6. Prospect Park 7. Coney Island 8. Metro North line to & from Scarsdale 9. Greyhound Bus to & from Boston 10. Plane to & from New Orleans _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:24:14 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: poetry, illness, collaboration, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ammonides's comments, preceded by Patrick's comments a day, before point back to the basic fault in the original way B. Watten had stated the issue, that there is a crucial difference between the automatic writing of Surrealists, for example, and the way h. weiner wrote her poetry, hierarchically one more legitimate than the other). W's approach sees the poem as a product, rather than a process, free wheeling in the poet's mind and "owned" by him or her, which is distinct from its social reception or lack of it. His way of questioning sidesteps that "free" moment of undifferentiated process, presumes the distinction (fixing the deck), which he then "opens" to analysis. Ammonides's pushing W.'s distinction to its logically absurd conclusion (that, after all, air also is a chemical substance and the comic vicissitudes of naming different poetic collaborations, etc.) points to the inherent authoritarian bias in B. W.'s approach (a poem as a commodity with organized public "function/fiction." Patrick's refusal to value poetic "experiment" above other kind of writing, it seems to me, is part of the same response to B.W. Murat In a message dated 7/24/01 6:33:22 PM, Ammonides@AOL.COM writes: >Thomas Bell asked, > >"Is there a qualitative difference in poetic research condusted under the >influence of induced substances (air, water, and pollen might also be >includeed?) or internal influences (either biochemical or structural)?" > >Indeed, this was one of the questions I asked, and it seems an important >one >to grapple with if "the poetry of madness" is to be theorized, as Barrett >Watten seemed to be suggesting it might, as a special aesthetic-theoretical >problem. > >Again, if one regards schizophrenia as a condition which has a >chemical-biological basis (as I'm sure Watten does!), then in what way >could >the poetry produced under its impacts be given (by "normal" critics, one >presumes) a special ontological status vis a vis, say, any poetry produced >under the influence of mind-altering chemical substances? Or, for that >matter, the poetry produced by surrealists in the 20's and 30's under the >altered neuro-chemical effects of sleep deprivation? > >Once one begins to demarcate illness as constituting some kind of exotic >otherness, all sorts of "critical" pseudo-problems begin to emerge. For >example, would a collaboration between Ron Silliman and Hannah Weiner need >be >considered (mediated and invaded by illness, as the text would be) in special >critical ways as against a collaboration by Lyn Hejinian and Michael Palmer? >Or, one could ask: what of criticism by someone experiencing mental illness? >Is a listserv thread on poetry and madness somehow a "new and special object" >once a brilliant young writer like Patrick Herron makes a contribution? >Is >the thread not now traced with the filaments of mental illness? > >In short, it is best to treat poets as poets, and to avoid inventing >unnecessary theoretical problems. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 06:50:17 -0400 Reply-To: bkrogers@catskill.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bertha Rogers Subject: Re: Beowulf Exhibit, Video, and Reading by Bertha Rogers In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Times New RomanBeowulf An Interdisciplinary Exhibit Featuring Illuminated Art and Video by Bertha Rogers July 10-31, 2001 Translation Workshop by the Artist/Translator July 31, 5 PM Reading by the Artist/Translator July 31, 7:30 PM Old Forge Library Crosby Boulevard, Old Forge, NY, in the Adirondacks Ph. 315-369-6008 Hours: Tuesday - Friday, 12-5 PM; 7-9 PM Saturday, 12-3 PM This exhibit is made possible, in part, by a grant from the New York State Council on the Arts Decentralization Program, administered in Delaware County by the Roxbury Arts Group. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:26:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: a challenge Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" why don't you go ahead and post your backchannel scolding of me on list, Jeffrey? My god, the boredom of it all. ___________________________________________ Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page2.html ___________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:52:42 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ammonides@AOL.COM Subject: Lacan/Faking Literature query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Bircumshaw mentioned, in lively response, the lively VeRT magazine. The "Dear Jacques Lacan" correspondence there is an odd, disturbing, sometimes thrilling engagement with the topic of poetic madness! I know, actually, that the "letters" and introductory note by Slavoj Zizek are being translated into French for publication in a journal there. Also into Portuguese, for publication in Brazil, though I don't think that the "poeticized" posts by Jacques Debrot that David refers to are to be included in these translations. If he wishes, I could try to find out for him. I once attended, in 1994, a lecture in Paris, given jointly by Jacques Alain Miller and Zizek. It was quite incredible, the intensity of it. Cigarette smoke filled the room, of course, since this was France. A huge b/w photo of the stern Lacan hung behind the podium, glaring out at the crowd of mostly Ecole Normale students and professors. Zizek shouted and waved his arms, then stroked his beard and was silent for a long time, then waved his arms, and so on, as if in this alternation he were representing some quality of the unconscious. The light above him gave the smoke that enveloped him a fine, bluish color, like a halo of some kind. It was all, as I said, very intense. On a completely different note, can anyone provide me with an email for K.K. Ruthven, author of _Faking Literature_, a book just released by Cambridge UP? Thank you. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:40:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lee@PROBOOK.NET Subject: Announcing a new poetry journal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ANNOUNCING A NEW JOURNAL Anathematizing one another is only a strategy. Unlike the theory-bound we applaud any strategy (including theoretics) that produces a coruscating poem. Let language poetries, surrealism, and ellipticalism all stand on the same ground and pollinate. Hurray for theory; down with theory. UR-VOX is a journal of the limbic or underlying voice (the UR). It embraces all phases of surrealism early and late, experiments in broken and erotic grammars, works of ecstatic religion or=20 unreligion, and heady documents of the machine age (the VOX). Its literary programme is rooted in our oldest phylogenetics,=20 structured opportunistically from dreams, rant, automatism,=20 and the found. The startlingly beautiful issue #1 is now available: Brian Lucas,=20 Philip Lamantia, Ivan Arg=FCelles, Garrett Caples, Elizabeth Robinson,=20 John Olson, Spencer Selby, Steve Carll, Jason Lynn, Geoffrey O'Brien, John Noto, Richard Anders, Andrew Joron, Joe Donahue, John Yau,=20 Kristin Prevallet, Will Alexander, Richard Kostelanetz, Charles=20 Borkhuis, Tod Thilleman, Leonard Schwartz, Paola L=F3pez, John M. Bennett. $10 postpaid anywhere in the world, payable to Lee Ballentine,=20 P.O. Box 9249, Denver CO 80209. Your money cheerfully refunded if not completely satisfied. Now reading for issue #2.=20 ------ END ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:53:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: fwd: audio recording of Walt Whitman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I will be digitalizing a copy of the Whitman recording and uploading it to the web for community delectation. More to follow. Jeffrey Jullich ------------------------------------------------------------ ":julu:jen:tense / . . . :juli!:term:cap / . . . julo:yorl:yorlrev / . . . / Come home with me julu-of-the-fast-crowd / Ah, your makeup eaten by julu-of-the-open-arms and julu-depressed" --- Alan Jennifer Sondheim, "JENNIFER TURNS JULU" (May 31, 1997) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ANASTASIOS KOZAITIS wrote: > I have a copy of this. > > At 10:05 PM 7/23/01, you wrote: > >Subject: > > [silence] OT: audio recording of Walt Whitman > > Date: > > Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:34:20 -0500 (CDT) > > From: > > Lowell Cross > > To: > > John Whiting > > CC: > > Silence list > > > > > > > > > >I know that this is off-topic, but there is a recording of Walt Whitman > >(probably) reading the first 4 lines of his poem "America" from _Leaves > >of Grass_. It was unearthed by Prof. Ed Folsom of our English faculty, > >and if authentic, it was recorded on an Edison wax cylinder within the > >last year or two of Whitman's life. Prof. Folsom is the editor of _The > >Walt Whitman Quarterly_ -- at least he was a few years ago when the > >recording became something of a "cause celebre." Its authenticity (or > >lack of same) was discussed in a _New York Times_ article. > > > >Lowell Cross > >The University of Iowa ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:48:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: librarymarketing@ADDRESS.COM Subject: Affordable Library Lists - (Public & Academic) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit We are pleased to announce the release of affordable and effective library lists. The library market is a lucrative and effective way to sell your books. Libraries often order in bulk, require little or no discount, and always pay on time. These are more that just mailing address labels. We provide you an extensive database that includes the library name, address, phone and fax numbers. We have also included the number of volumes and the material budgets of these respective academic and public libraries. You can easily create mailing labels, phone and fax lists to market your books and products. We only selected the libraries with the largest number of volumes and the largest budgets. You will not be wasting your time and money on libraries that are unlikely to purchase your books. These lists will save you hundreds of hours of work and hundreds of dollars. They are available in Text format and Microsoft Excel format. You can choose either or both at no additional cost. 900 Public Libraries - $69 700 University Libraries - $49 LIMITED TIME OFFER: BUY BOTH LISTS FOR ONLY $99 Call 888-330-4919 (24hrs) to place your order. You will be able to download your lists WITHIN MINUTES. ------------------------------------------------------------- To be removed from any future mailings, please send a message with REMOVE in the subject line to MediaListRemoval@netscape.net. Requests will be processed promptly at that address only. Thank you. --------------------------------------------------------------- Get Free Internet Access And WebEmail At http://www.address.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:55:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: laurie macrae Subject: Lurid Sylvia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A couple of years ago in Taos, we held a dead poets marathon reading contest. Sylvia Plath won reading "Daddy". She was embodied by a very tall drag queen who wore a perfect blond page-boy wig, very red lipstick, and combat boots. What can I say?? We "got it" like never before. Laurie > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Make international calls for as low as > $.04/minute > > > with Yahoo! Messenger > > > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > > with Yahoo! Messenger > > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 17:47:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Alan (Ms.) Jennifer Sondheim LEADER OF THE PACK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I must say, Mr. Alan (Ms.) Jennifer Sondheim, I find these new nigh-letterless punctuation poems of yours (from "a" and "turning", below) quite breathtaking, --- hard to recognize that they exist at all! their futurity is so time-tunneled back to us, like a first firefly seen but unrecognizeable before it flashes. I can inhale them but not read them (Blasphemies, stem cells). The only thing I know of to compare them to in the entire XXth cent./pre-history is a single poem by Christopher Morgenstern called "Fish" (in Germ., I think), made up of all scansion marks, as I recall. I've daydreamed of poems like these-yours, and been able to glimpse them faintly --- but I never had the swollen PUNCTUATION MARKS to carry it out, as you in war paint heaving inert weights skyward crying "Ho!" You sand painter . . . ! Come April, we will carry him our alpha male on our puny be-powdered shoulders, my tiny little Jordan (Davis) friend, as May King, with all "Golden Bough" perquisites [repression repression considerable repression here]. ------------------------------------------ Alan Sondheim wrote: > - > > a-code: work = #### > b-code: fuck = #### > c-code: kill = #### > > ####. .... .... .. .... .. .... ... ....... ... .. .... ... "........."; > ...... .... .. .. . .......... ... .. ####, ... .. ....... .... .... ..... > ... ...... .., .../.. ...#### .............., ... ........: . ......., > .... .. ####, ....... .. ......., ... > ####. .. ... ......; .... ... > A...... 3.8 .. ... ...... ........... .. ......... #### 1994-2002 > B... ........ ............. #### .... F..... ... A.... > M.... .. ..... .... ... .....#### .... A.... > A........ ... ..... ........... ........ .....####. > ####, ..... ... ... ......, .. .. . .... ....... .... .... ... .. ....... > ........, .'. .... ..., .'.. ... ... ....... .... .. #### .. .., . ...'. > . .... ....... .. .... ....; ......... . .. .. .... ...... .. #### .. ..., > ... ... .. ....., .. ......., .. ..........., ####., ... ......; ......: > ......., .. ..........., ####., ####., ####., ####., ####., ... ......; > ####, .. .... .. .. .. .. ... ..... .. .. .. > "####" .. .... ... .... .. .. .., ..... .. ... .... ..... .. ... ...., > A.. .... .. ....... .. ......... M. ... #### .. .. ........, .... .... I > ...... .. ... .... .... .... ............ ....... C....... #### .. . > ........; .. .... .. ... .. ... ... .. ......, ... ... ........ #### > 3) H.. ......... ....... .. ... ........ ......... .. .... #### ..... > Y.., I .... .....-.... ............, ... ...... .. #### .... ............. > .... ... .... .... ......... ...-..... T.. ........ ......... .. .. #### > I'. ... .... .... ... ..... M. ... #### - I .... .. .. ..... ....#### - .. > ####.. ... ....... .. ....., ....., ...., ... ............; ... .. ..... > > _ FROM "TUNING": [ ]"Y , [ ] , , [ ] [ ] ?" [ ] , , [ ] , , , [ ] , , , [ ] , . [ ] "A " ," [ ] F , [ ] , [ ] , , , [ ] ?" [ ] , [ ] - , - [ ] . [ ] [ ] "T ." [ ] "A , [ ] , [ ] , _ _ ." [ ] , [ ] , [ ] [ ] "W , - , [ ] - - , ." [ ] [ ] , , [ ] / , [ ] [ ] "A , [ ] , , " ," [ ] , [ ] , ." [ ] , [ ] , " [ ] ." [ ] , [ ] , , [ ] , [ ] , . [ ] "W , [ ] , [ ] ; [ ] [ ] , , [ ] [ ] ." [ ] , [ ] [ ] , [ ] , [ ] , , [ ] . [ ] "I ." [ ] "I " " [ ] " " [ ] ." [ ] " " " " [ ] , [ ] [ ] , , . [ ] "E " " - [ ] , , , [ ] , [ ] , - [ ] , [ ] , , [ ] [ ] ." [ ] , [ ] [ ] ; , , [ ] , , [ ] , [ ] . [ ] "T [ ] - ; [ ] [ ] [ ] , , [ ] , , ." [ ] [ ] , [ ] ; , [ ] [ ] . [ ] "N , [ ] , , [ ] , , [ ] , , [ ] , . A [ ] ; [ ] ." [ ] , , [ ] , , [ ] , [ ] , [ ] , [ ] , [ ] . [ ] "S O [ ] [ ] , , [ ] , - , [ ] , [ ] , [ ] ." [ ][ ] [ ][ ] ; [ ][ ] ; [ ][ ] ; [ ][ ] [ ][ ] . [ ][ ] , , [ ][ ] , , [ ][ ] , , , [ ][ ] , [ ][ ] , [ ][ ] , [ ][ ] , [ ][ ] , , [ ][ ] . [ ][ ] "I , [ ][ ] : [ ][ ] [ ][ ] [ ][ ] [ ][ ] , [ ][ ] , , , [ ][ ] , [ ][ ] ." [ ][ ] [ ][ ] , [ ][ ] , [ ][ ] [ ][ ] . [ ][ ] . [ ][ ] "A [ ][ ] ." [ ][ ] [ ][ ] , [ ][ ] , , [ ][ ] [ ][ ] , , [ ][ ] , [ ][ ] , [ ][ ] , [ ][ ] [ ][ ] , [ ][ ] , . [ ][ ] "A [ ][ ] , ; [ ][ ] [ ][ ] , [ ][ ] , [ ][ ] [ ][ ] [ ][ ] ." [ ][ ] [ ][ ]" [ ][ ] , [ ][ ] [ ][ ] . [ ][ ] "O [ ][ ] , [ ][ ] , [ ][ ] , [ ][ ] , [ ][ ] ." [ ][ ] , [ ][ ] [ ][ ] [ ][ ] , , [ ][ ] , [ ][ ] . [ ][ ] "O , [ ][ ] , [ ][ ] ", [ ][ ] [ ][ ] , [ ][ ] - , [ ][ ] [ ][ ] [ ][ ] ." [ ][ ] [ ][ ] . [ ][ ] "A [ ][ ] ." [ ][ ] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:46:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: East of Eden Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I will be off-list for some days as I migrate to Pennsylvania. For any and all who might wish to email me, here is my newly activated address: aln10@psu.edu If you're planning readings at any of the major rest stops on the 80, let me know. I'll be sure to drop by. " Subjects hinder talk." -- Emily Dickinson Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 119 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 21:15:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: SORRY Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed This announces a new magazine: ~SORRY~ a journal of previously rejected work. Please send to: tinaiskingofmonsterisland@hotmail.com SORRY Jim Behrle 17 A Imrie Rd. Allston, MA 02134 If possible, please send a copy of the rejection letter. Old, potentially embarrassing submissions are encouraged. Take good care. Jim _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:42:16 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wright Laura E Subject: Re: Where else? continued In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Gary Sullivan wrote: > >Marjorie Perloff addresses a secondary question: with the > >transformation of English into Cultural Studies, where else > >but in writing programs, will literature be read? > > 1. The subway (F train) > 2. Living room futon > 3. Online > 4. Cafe Orlin > 5. Central Park > 6. Prospect Park > 7. Coney Island > 8. Metro North line to & from Scarsdale > 9. Greyhound Bus to & from Boston > 10. Plane to & from New Orleans 11. The bathtub 12. At work 13. In bed 14. On a mountain/ by the creek 15. On the stairs 16. Before a hockey game 17. At the dentist 18. On the floor 19. Over the phone 20. Walking down Broadway 21. At the post office ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:10:48 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "][mez][" Subject: BeeHive Microtitles Series 1 Comments: To: audiovision@egroups.com, fibreculture-announce@lists.myspinach.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >X-From_: talan@percepticon.com Thu Jul 26 02:27:14 2001 >Delivered-To: netwurker@hotkey.net.au >From: "Talan Memmott" >To: >Subject: BeeHive Microtitles Series 1 >Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:31:56 -0700 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 >Importance: Normal > > >BeeHive Hypertext/Hypermedia Literary Journal introduces Microtitles Series >1. Take a little BeeHive wherever you go! > > >Three new Microtitles are now available for download. >http://microtitles.com > > >BeeHive Microtitles Series 1 is a collection of short titles in Adobe PDF, >formatted for your PDA. These titles can be read on the Palm Pilot >using the new Adobe Acrobat Reader for the Palm OS. >Special attention has been paid to typographical issues of the Palm Pilot, >and in an effort to reduce memory use on your PDA images have been scaled >and compressed with the PDA in mind. None of the first three titles exceeds >200k. > >Though formatted formatted for maximum readability on the Palm Pilot, these >titles can be read on your desktop using either Adobe Acrobat Reader 5.0 or >the Adobe ebook Reader. > >__________ > >Titles available today > >_What the Hell is That?_ >Thomas Zummer's rigorous and entertaining essay on cinematic creature >mutations. Case studies include such film classics as "Swarm" and "Them". >The work includes an extensive >bibliography and taxonomic-cinematic index. > >** > >_Issue's in Phenomenology_ >Ryan Whyte's collection of poetical observations consists of 10 Palm Pilot >screens -- 10 vignettes that variously take up language, music, suicide, >graduate school, "prozac and >Adorno!" > >** > >_Vehicular Datatraffic_ >A collection of four new signature works from Mez. Texts include >N.][di][visible Rawswarming(c).* and Sig.N.ature ][licking the signature >static]. >__________ > >In the coming months BeeHive will release five more Series 1 Microtitles. >September will mark the release of two works including _Toward Electracy_, a >conversation between theorist Gregory Ulmer and Talan Memmott, and _Reality >Dreams_ by Joel Weishaus. Three more Microtitles will be released later >in the year. > >In the future BeeHive Microtitles will be offering work in a variety of >downloadable formats, as well as BOD (Burn On Demand) Hypermedia on CD. >__________ > >Download a Microtitle today! > >It's FREE! > >http://microtitles.com > >__________ > >Send questions and comments to beehive@percepticon.com > >BeeHive Hypertext Hypermedia Literary Journal >http://beehive.temporalimage.com >__________ >BeeHive Microtitles is a product of the Percepticon Corporation >__________ >PERCEPTICON CORP. >PO Box 590820 >San Francisco CA >94159 USA >t. 415.749.2900 >f. 415.749.2901 >http://www.percepticon.com >__________ > > > . . .... ..... net.wurker][risque.ov.n.fection][ n.sect.ile x.cuts.x .go.here. xXXx ./. www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker .... . .??? ....... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:12:14 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dodie. You're quite wrong: it's well known that (or it can be shown that ) Sylvia Plath (who gassed herself to death while her children were nearby) was America's or possibly the World's greatest poetic genius of all time. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dodie Bellamy" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 12:06 PM Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath > At 1:08 PM -0400 7/23/01, Bob Grumman wrote: > >anything near what I'd call a valid opinion of it. I'm also > >prejudiced against the kind of confessional poems, like "Daddy," > >that she was best-known for. > > I don't see how "Daddy" is confessional. It's a nursery-rhyme > performance piece. And Plath wrote a lot of other poems in other > styles. Daddy is supposed to be irritating and I think it does what > she wanted it to do. > > As far as the rest of the discussion about whether Plath is "great" > or not--I certainly wouldn't use the word "great" myself to describe > anybody. I liked Fraser's use of it, just because to say anything > positive about Plath as Poet is such a radical intervention. > > The whole notion of "greatness" reeks of The Cannon, which we on the > poetic list are supposed to be against, right? (This is a gentle > joke, folks.) > > Dodie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 22:41:56 -0400 Reply-To: BobGrumman@nut-n-but.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dodie wrote: > I don't see how "Daddy" is confessional. I'm using the term pretty loosely no doubt, but think of confessional poems as those that reveal some tortured unattractive "me," generally in reaction to some intimate relationship. > It's a nursery-rhyme > performance piece. And Plath wrote a lot of other poems in other > styles. True. I was just saying why I'm prejudiced against her. > Daddy is supposed to be irritating and I think it does what > she wanted it to do. > > As far as the rest of the discussion about whether Plath is "great" > or not--I certainly wouldn't use the word "great" myself to describe > anybody. I liked Fraser's use of it, just because to say anything > positive about Plath as Poet is such a radical intervention. > > The whole notion of "greatness" reeks of The Cannon, which we on the > poetic list are supposed to be against, right? (This is a gentle > joke, folks.) Well, I've always been for a canon, the making of which is unavoidable, anyway. I just want it to exclude poets I think are not very good, and include those I like. --Bob G. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 23:02:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Coffey Subject: Re: Affordable Library Lists - (Public & Academic) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Speaking as a librarian that orders English lit books for a university library, we do NOT order "in bulk" and we do get discounts. We get a discount on just about every book handled by SPD, through our own distributor. Don't waste your money on these library lists. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 2:48 PM Subject: Affordable Library Lists - (Public & Academic) > We are pleased to announce the release of affordable and effective library > lists. The library market is a lucrative and effective way to sell your books. > Libraries often order in bulk, require little or no discount, and always pay on > time. These are more that just mailing address labels. We provide you an > extensive database that includes the library name, address, phone and fax > numbers. We have also included the number of volumes and the material budgets > of these respective academic and public libraries. You can easily create > mailing labels, phone and fax lists to market your books and products. > > We only selected the libraries with the largest number of volumes and the > largest budgets. You will not be wasting your time and money on libraries that > are unlikely to purchase your books. These lists will save you hundreds of > hours of work and hundreds of dollars. They are available in Text format and > Microsoft Excel format. You can choose either or both at no additional cost. > > 900 Public Libraries - $69 > 700 University Libraries - $49 > > LIMITED TIME OFFER: BUY BOTH LISTS FOR ONLY $99 > > Call 888-330-4919 (24hrs) to place your order. You will be able to download your > lists WITHIN MINUTES. > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > To be removed from any future mailings, please send a message with REMOVE in > the subject line to MediaListRemoval@netscape.net. Requests will be processed > promptly at that address only. Thank you. > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Get Free Internet Access And WebEmail At http://www.address.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 00:37:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: BeeHive Microtitles Series 1 (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:31:56 -0700 From: Talan Memmott To: beehive@percepticon.com Subject: BeeHive Microtitles Series 1 BeeHive Hypertext/Hypermedia Literary Journal introduces Microtitles Series 1. Take a little BeeHive wherever you go! Three new Microtitles are now available for download. http://microtitles.com BeeHive Microtitles Series 1 is a collection of short titles in Adobe PDF, formatted for your PDA. These titles can be read on the Palm Pilot using the new Adobe Acrobat Reader for the Palm OS. Special attention has been paid to typographical issues of the Palm Pilot, and in an effort to reduce memory use on your PDA images have been scaled and compressed with the PDA in mind. None of the first three titles exceeds 200k. Though formatted formatted for maximum readability on the Palm Pilot, these titles can be read on your desktop using either Adobe Acrobat Reader 5.0 or the Adobe ebook Reader. __________ Titles available today _What the Hell is That?_ Thomas Zummer's rigorous and entertaining essay on cinematic creature mutations. Case studies include such film classics as "Swarm" and "Them". The work includes an extensive bibliography and taxonomic-cinematic index. ** _Issue's in Phenomenology_ Ryan Whyte's collection of poetical observations consists of 10 Palm Pilot screens -- 10 vignettes that variously take up language, music, suicide, graduate school, "prozac and Adorno!" ** _Vehicular Datatraffic_ A collection of four new signature works from Mez. Texts include N.][di][visible Rawswarming(c).* and Sig.N.ature ][licking the signature static]. __________ In the coming months BeeHive will release five more Series 1 Microtitles. September will mark the release of two works including _Toward Electracy_, a conversation between theorist Gregory Ulmer and Talan Memmott, and _Reality Dreams_ by Joel Weishaus. Three more Microtitles will be released later in the year. In the future BeeHive Microtitles will be offering work in a variety of downloadable formats, as well as BOD (Burn On Demand) Hypermedia on CD. __________ Download a Microtitle today! It's FREE! http://microtitles.com __________ Send questions and comments to beehive@percepticon.com BeeHive Hypertext Hypermedia Literary Journal http://beehive.temporalimage.com __________ BeeHive Microtitles is a product of the Percepticon Corporation __________ PERCEPTICON CORP. PO Box 590820 San Francisco CA 94159 USA t. 415.749.2900 f. 415.749.2901 http://www.percepticon.com __________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 01:10:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the internment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - ironically jean-paul crayfish was buried today with a rock for a tombstone engraved by a french theorist jean-paul, it was in leslie's and tom's roof-top garden beneath the trellis there was a distinct emanation from the earth in which he was interned you could feel something crossing the borderline of perception, the slightest apprehension the apprehension was itself ghost-like, almost imperceptible as if you were about to feel something and then thought better of it a slight haze in the northwestern evening sky, there were thunderheads everywhere, the sky was waiting it did feel as if the sky reached down with an uncanny openness the sky and jean-paul spoke in an inchoate whisper, subaudible there was a lightening immediately above the stone as the emanation from the body of jean-paul rose around it, and gathered force again, immediately above it, in the form of a cylinder or pillar of some sort of invisible and wraith- like spiritual substance tom chanted in a latin i did not understand but the words jean-paul were audible, as if in response to jean-paul's subvocalizations azure lowered the body into the grave prepared by us, along with the water surrounded him, as jean-paul was buried in his breathing and elemental world i took a series of photographs under the gloomy and unnatural sky, holding to the rich and deepening earth dampened colors muted within the membrane of the trellis tom played the slow music of death and dirge, schrei- opera and totenlieder, we silently drank a glass of bulgarian white wine in silence the sky trembled and waters flew, a moment in a shattered universe, a universe utterly devoid of meaning for a second we looked toward the other as if there were no return :: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 02:01:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Levitsky Subject: Re: Where else? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BED!! -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Gary Sullivan Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 11:11 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Where else? >Marjorie Perloff addresses a secondary question: with the >transformation of English into Cultural Studies, where else >but in writing programs, will literature be read? 1. The subway (F train) 2. Living room futon 3. Online 4. Cafe Orlin 5. Central Park 6. Prospect Park 7. Coney Island 8. Metro North line to & from Scarsdale 9. Greyhound Bus to & from Boston 10. Plane to & from New Orleans _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 18:03:24 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Alan (Ms.) Jennifer Sondheim LEADER OF THE PACK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeffrey. In a satirical email I suggested a poem or novel (same thing say I) (somewhere it will be on the List records) a poem entirely consisting of punctuation marks... in fact it was being written (not really) by no less than Umberto Eco. So to be fair: I invented the concept....but then again to be magnanimous to Alan his work was roaring toward such incredible innovative and amazing torrents of brilliant outpourings that just as the first heavier than air flight (more or less controlled ) by Richard Pearse took place in NZ some months before the Wright brothers and Pearse himself conceded that his flight was not quite up to the "level" of those former he never claimed precedence (altho unlike anyone else he built his own engines and did most things single-handedly which was partly his "downfall plus his location down here as they say) I also have to give the torch to Alan with great modesty and immense self abnegation (not forgetting my own genius of course) and adulation to Alan Sondheim whose vastly prolific and possibly frentic creations stream endlessly and seemingly ubstoppably into the eternal electronic highway...... But one likes to (modestly) mention these things. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Jullich" To: Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 9:47 AM Subject: Alan (Ms.) Jennifer Sondheim LEADER OF THE PACK > I must say, Mr. Alan (Ms.) Jennifer Sondheim, I find these new nigh-letterless > punctuation poems of yours (from "a" and "turning", below) quite breathtaking, > --- hard to recognize that they exist at all! their futurity is so > time-tunneled back to us, like a first firefly seen but unrecognizeable before > it flashes. I can inhale them but not read them (Blasphemies, stem cells). > > The only thing I know of to compare them to in the entire XXth > cent./pre-history is a single poem by Christopher Morgenstern called "Fish" > (in Germ., I think), made up of all scansion marks, as I recall. > > I've daydreamed of poems like these-yours, and been able to glimpse them > faintly --- but I never had the swollen PUNCTUATION MARKS to carry it out, as > you in war paint heaving inert weights skyward crying "Ho!" You sand painter > . . . ! Come April, we will carry him our alpha male on our puny be-powdered > shoulders, my tiny little Jordan (Davis) friend, as May King, with all "Golden > Bough" perquisites [repression repression considerable repression here]. > > ------------------------------------------ > > Alan Sondheim wrote: > > > - > > > > a-code: work = #### > > b-code: fuck = #### > > c-code: kill = #### > > > > ####. .... .... .. .... .. .... ... ....... ... .. .... ... "........."; > > ...... .... .. .. . .......... ... .. ####, ... .. ....... .... .... ..... > > ... ...... .., .../.. ...#### .............., ... ........: . ......., > > .... .. ####, ....... .. ......., ... > > ####. .. ... ......; .... ... > > A...... 3.8 .. ... ...... ........... .. ......... #### 1994-2002 > > B... ........ ............. #### .... F..... ... A.... > > M.... .. ..... .... ... .....#### .... A.... > > A........ ... ..... ........... ........ .....####. > > ####, ..... ... ... ......, .. .. . .... ....... .... .... ... .. ....... > > ........, .'. .... ..., .'.. ... ... ....... .... .. #### .. .., . ...'. > > . .... ....... .. .... ....; ......... . .. .. .... ...... .. #### .. ..., > > ... ... .. ....., .. ......., .. ..........., ####., ... ......; ......: > > ......., .. ..........., ####., ####., ####., ####., ####., ... ......; > > ####, .. .... .. .. .. .. ... ..... .. .. .. > > "####" .. .... ... .... .. .. .., ..... .. ... .... ..... .. ... ...., > > A.. .... .. ....... .. ......... M. ... #### .. .. ........, .... .... I > > ...... .. ... .... .... .... ............ ....... C....... #### .. . > > ........; .. .... .. ... .. ... ... .. ......, ... ... ........ #### > > 3) H.. ......... ....... .. ... ........ ......... .. .... #### ..... > > Y.., I .... .....-.... ............, ... ...... .. #### .... ............. > > .... ... .... .... ......... ...-..... T.. ........ ......... .. .. #### > > I'. ... .... .... ... ..... M. ... #### - I .... .. .. ..... ....#### - .. > > ####.. ... ....... .. ....., ....., ...., ... ............; ... .. ..... > > > > _ > > FROM "TUNING": > > [ ]"Y , > [ ] , , > [ ] > [ ] ?" > [ ] , , > [ ] , , , > [ ] , , , > [ ] , . > [ ] "A " ," > [ ] F , > [ ] , > [ ] , , , > [ ] ?" > [ ] , > [ ] - , - > [ ] . > [ ] > [ ] "T ." > [ ] "A , > [ ] , > [ ] , _ _ ." > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] > [ ] "W , - , > [ ] - - , ." > [ ] > [ ] , , > [ ] / , > [ ] > [ ] "A , > [ ] , , " ," > [ ] , > [ ] , ." > [ ] , > [ ] , " > [ ] ." > [ ] , > [ ] , , > [ ] , > [ ] , . > [ ] "W , > [ ] , > [ ] ; > [ ] > [ ] , , > [ ] > [ ] ." > [ ] , > [ ] > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] , , > [ ] . > [ ] "I ." > [ ] "I " " > [ ] " " > [ ] ." > [ ] " " " " > [ ] , > [ ] > [ ] , , . > [ ] "E " " - > [ ] , , , > [ ] , > [ ] , - > [ ] , > [ ] , , > [ ] > [ ] ." > [ ] , > [ ] > [ ] ; , , > [ ] , , > [ ] , > [ ] . > [ ] "T > [ ] - ; > [ ] > [ ] > [ ] , , > [ ] , , ." > [ ] > [ ] , > [ ] ; , > [ ] > [ ] . > [ ] "N , > [ ] , , > [ ] , , > [ ] , , > [ ] , . A > [ ] ; > [ ] ." > [ ] , , > [ ] , , > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] . > [ ] "S O > [ ] > [ ] , , > [ ] , - , > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] ." > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] ; > [ ][ ] ; > [ ][ ] ; > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] , , , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] "I , > [ ][ ] : > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , , , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] "A > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , . > [ ][ ] "A > [ ][ ] , ; > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ]" > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] "O > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] "O , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] ", > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] - , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] "A > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 04:09:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Carter Subject: Re: they were nearby whispering In-Reply-To: <004701c11495$e0578800$db6c36d2@01397384> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:10:47 +1200 >From: "richard.tylr" > > >Daniel Etal. This motors along! Brilliant. Richard Taylor. thank you, Richard. your compliments are very encouraging. Daniel -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:06:55 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Igor Satanovsky Subject: Re: Alan (Ms.) Jennifer Sondheim LEADER OF THE PACK Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Actually, I don't see anything new or innovative here. The idea of syntax po= etry is a direct extention of Italian & Russian Futurism ideas, and was exte= nsively materialized in the XX century. You can check out Marinetti's essay=20= "Destruction of Syntax=97Imagination without strings=97Words-in-Freedom" =20 at http://www.unknown.nu/futurism/destruction.html Igor Satanovsky In a message dated Wed, 25 Jul 2001 8:55:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Jeffr= ey Jullich writes: > I must say, Mr. Alan (Ms.) Jennifer Sondheim, I find these new nigh-letter= less > punctuation poems of yours (from "a" and "turning", below) quite breathtak= ing, > --- hard to recognize that they exist at all! their futurity is so > time-tunneled back to us, like a first firefly seen but unrecognizeable be= fore > it flashes. I can inhale them but not read them (Blasphemies, stem cells)= . >=20 > The only thing I know of to compare them to in the entire XXth > cent./pre-history is a single poem by Christopher Morgenstern called "Fish= " > (in Germ., I think), made up of all scansion marks, as I recall. >=20 > I've daydreamed of poems like these-yours, and been able to glimpse them > faintly --- but I never had the swollen PUNCTUATION MARKS to carry it out,= as > you in war paint heaving inert weights skyward crying "Ho!" You sand pain= ter > . . . ! Come April, we will carry him our alpha male on our puny be-powde= red > shoulders, my tiny little Jordan (Davis) friend, as May King, with all "Go= lden > Bough" perquisites [repression repression considerable repression here]. >=20 > ------------------------------------------ >=20 > Alan Sondheim wrote: >=20 > > - > > > > a-code: work =3D #### > > b-code: fuck =3D #### > > c-code: kill =3D #### > > > > ####. .... .... .. .... .. .... ... ....... .. .. .... ... "........."; > > ...... .... .. .. . .......... ... .. ####, .. .. ....... .... .... ....= . > > ... ...... .., .../.. ...#### .............., ... .......: . ......., > > .... .. ####, ....... . ......., ... > > ####. .. ... .....; .... ... > > A...... 3.8 .. ... ...... ........... .. ......... #### 1994-2002 > > B... ........ ............. #### .... F..... ... A... > > M.... .. ..... .... ... .....#### .... A.... > > A........ ... ..... ........... ........ .....####. > > ####, ..... ... ... ......, .. .. . .... ...... .... .... ... .. ....... > > ........, .'. .... ..., .'.. ... ... ....... ... .. #### .. .., . ...'. > > . .... ....... .. .... ....; ......... . .. .. .... ...... .. #### .. ..= ., > > ... ... .. ....., .. ......., .. ..........., ####., ... ......; ......: > > ......., .. ..........., ####., ####., ####., ####., ####., ... ......; > > ####, .. .... .. .. .. .. ... ..... . .. .. > > "####" .. .... ... .... .. .. .., .... .. ... .... ..... .. ... ....= , > > A.. .... .. ....... .. ......... M. ... #### . .. ........, .... .... I > > ...... .. ... .... .... .... ............ ....... C....... #### .. . > > ........; .. .... .. ... .. ... ... .. ......, ... ... ........ #### > > 3) H.. ......... ....... .. ... ........ ........ .. .... #### ..... > > Y.., I .... .....-.... ............, ... ...... .. #### .... ...........= .. > > .... ... .... .... ......... ...-..... T.. ....... ......... .. .. #### > > I'. ... .... .... ... ..... M. ... #### - I ... .. .. ..... ....#### - .= . > > ####.. ... ....... .. ....., ....., ...., ... ...........; ... .. ..... > > > > _ >=20 > FROM "TUNING": >=20 > [ ]"Y , > [ ] , , > [ ] > [ ] ?" > [ ] , , > [ ] , , , > [ ] , , , > [ ] , . > [ ] "A " ," > [ ] F , > [ ] , > [ ] , , , > [ ] ?" > [ ] , > [ ] - , - > [ ] . > [ ] > [ ] "T ." > [ ] "A , > [ ] , > [ ] , _ _ ." > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] > [ ] "W , - , > [ ] - - , ." > [ ] > [ ] , , > [ ] / , > [ ] > [ ] "A , > [ ] , , " ," > [ ] , > [ ] , ." > [ ] , > [ ] , " > [ ] ." > [ ] , > [ ] , , > [ ] , > [ ] , . > [ ] "W , > [ ] , > [ ] ; > [ ] > [ ] , , > [ ] > [ ] ." > [ ] , > [ ] > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] , , > [ ] . > [ ] "I " > [ ] "I " " > [ ] " " > [ ] ." > [ ] " " " " > [ ] , > [ ] > [ ] , , . > [ ] "E " " - > [ ] , , , > [ ] , > [ ] , - > [ ] , > [ ] , , > [ ] > [ ] ." > [ ] , > [ ] > [ ] ; , , > [ ] , , > [ ] , > [ ] . > [ ] "T > [ ] - ; > [ ] > [ ] > [ ] , , > [ ] , , ." > [ ] > [ ] , > [ ] ; , > [ ] > [ ] . > [ ] "N , > [ ] , , > [ ] , , > [ ] , , > [ ] , . A > [ ] ; > [ ] ." > [ ] , , > [ ] , , > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] . > [ ] "S O > [ ] > [ ] , , > [ ] , - , > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] ." > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] ; > [ ][ ] ; > [ ][ ] ; > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] , , , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] "I , > [ ][ ] : > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , , , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] "A > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , . > [ ][ ] "A > [ ][ ] , ; > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ]" > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] "O > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] "O , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] ", > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] - , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] "A > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:14:47 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mariana Ruiz Firmat Subject: Re: Los Angeles Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi all! I will be in LA around August 1st for about a week and would like to know of any poetry events. If anyone has any information please post. Thank you! Mariana Ruiz Firmat _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:04:45 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: ~ebr~ piece on creative writing pedagogy... Comments: cc: kass.fleisher@colorado.edu In-Reply-To: <005d01c114ac$f8a9e9e0$e3565e18@hawaii.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" susan, jeffrey, others--- thanx so much for your responses... as kass and i ate up SO many words (~28,000, plus that 18,000-word mill) in our piece, we don't want to tie up the airwaves with more of *our* chatter just now... but susan in particular (and you know me!)---you're highlighting one of the key issues for us, and the one that seemed immediately to be at issue when we presented earlier drafts of our piece at u of iowa and at u of arizona (tenney nathanson and charles alexander and thom swiss on the list can corroborate!): the question of how actually to put into practice our critique... we do give some ideas throughout our piece, i think, but--- now both kass and i believe that questions of institutional power, of how to handle classroom authority comes first (or, should come first)---before designing a curriculum, before putting together a syllabus, before walking into the classroom... our paper is primarily an account of the sort of thinking that we believe should underwrite teacherly actions... and the paper lacks in this sense a thorough "how to"---though of course, there are more ways than one to skin a cat... which is to say, that individual personalities e.g. will inevitably drive any more practical strategies, that teaching-learning is a fully contingent enterprise etc... here's one item, though: when we use the term "peer review" in our paper, we're most decidely *not* suggesting the faux peer review you see in most writing workshops, the one depicted in fact at the beginning of ~wonder boys~, where everyone just points and shoots... we're asking that instructors permit students to evaluate *and grade* their own portfolios (which should comprise perhaps 40-50% of the final grade for the course, leaving the instructor with the responsibility of grading class participation, absences, missed deadlines etc.)... oh it would be great of classes were pass/fail, sure, but--- needless to say, whenever we argue for such a thing, we're met initially with a flurry of objections from other instructors, entirely unwilling to give up their authority via the grading process... and needless to say, no system is perfect... but if you're a student, grades *are* the primary manifestation of instructional (institutional) authority... so e.g., the way *i* do peer evaluation, no student gets less than a B on a writing portfolio (i encourage students to grade A, B, C etc., but record no less than a B)... i always reserve the right to raise any grade---or to lower ALL class grades when i find an entire class is unwilling to distinguish twixt A (terrific) and B (not terrific)... and of course, given that i ask writers in my classs to explore writing processes and products that lead---not to success, but---to failure, well, i'm asking them potentially to risk that A... and we all know how students (sorry!---i know some of you out there are students) can be about this, esp. these volatile economic days---and who can blame them, really?... and there's no doubt but that, albeit i give the occasional C (for attendance problems etc.), i'm contributing to "grade inflation" by giving out mostly B's and A's... but hold on: i don't permit my writers even to LOOK at each other's portfolios until we're approx. two months into the semester---i.e., only after sustained discussions of the workshop as a learning forum, usually couched within a discussion of literacy practices (for which we'll now use our ~ebr~ essay, ysee); group discussion to ascertain good vs. bad quality work, and why, in order to develop criteria by which groups (qua editorical collectives) will grade portfolios; reading and discussing critical work (perloff valuable here, among others); attending readings; reading work aloud (and recording it) in class, etc etc etc... i.e., i hope to raise the critical (-theoretical) ante some *prior to* peer evaluation, and i won't mself look at student work until *after* said work is evaluated by peers (and i have a few rules about how i feed students back)... b/c in point of fact i don't want my opine to serve as the final arbiter of literary value... b/c in point of fact there is no final arbiter of literary value, only provisional judgments (or so i say)... of course, as i say, no system is perfect... e.g., the idea of "groups as editorial collectives" is only a preemptive tactic, as the notion falls (generally) flat on its face eventually (as it should!) in the face of more unconventional work, work that's likely to turn off more conventionally oriented writers (i.e., most writers here at cu)... of course the classroom should in this sense be insulated from marketplace traumas, even as students learn that there's a poetry biz, full of career-minded poets, and publishers who publish out of love, and academics who hope to support their writing etc etc etc... further, an instructor needs must decide upon, for a given course, the most important areas of study, given that 15-16 week time-limit... there's only so much one can do... a step even *more* radical would be to let the class itself decide what's most important---but for me, this is an unwieldy proposition, much as i'm willing to tweak the syllabus throughout the semester... and again, all of this falls under "my how-to"---kass works slightly differently, emphasizing slightly different aspects of learning... she holds class sessions e.g. in which everyone is req'd to ask questions---questions only!---a technique i've borrowed from her, and which is worth doing once-twice/semester... but i'm not the listener kass is, to put it bluntly, so i often have to leave the classroom during class discussion... in any case, before an instructor, say, designs a syllabus, the point is to think about what *has* been done in the past (i.e., some sense of the history of academic creative writing, as this intersects with other histories), the student expectations/resistance you'll likely confront, and how you as instructor intend to handle this question of classroom authority... and turning over the reins to the writers once in a while has the advantage, ysee, of making the learning apparatus legible---as we argue in our paper... and this has the effect of making the students aware of their own authority and responsibilty, thus moving learning---and perhaps writing---toward larger social issues (responsible to whom? why? what about "others"? etc.)... yeah---the poem-process as a singular articulation, but also as an articulation of society, history, culture, etc., and all ideological-aesthetic difficulties pertaining thereto... well that's shorthand... thanx for posting in any case, and apologies for my cursory, even hurried reply here (we have company coming over!)... anyway, love to hear more... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 23:31:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: Chax Press group reading Th at 5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit POETRY READING Thursday, July 26, 5 pm–6:30 pm at the Tucson Pima Arts Council Gallery 240 N. Stone Avenue Free Admission Please call 620-1626 for information. FOR LOVE: CHAX PRESS POETS AND FRIENDS Each poet will read one poem they love but did not write, and at least one poem of their own. All poets are from Tucson. Some have had books published by Chax Press. Some will have books published in the future by Chax Press. All are friends of the press. This poetry event is the last event to occur in the gallery during the STEINFELD WAREHOUSE ARTISTS GROUP EXHIBITION, which includes work by Chax Press. The participating poets are: Tenney Nathanson Tim Peterson Lisa Cooper Imo Baird Dennis Williams Heather Nagami Jim Paul Charles Alexander & more sponsored by Chax Press and the Steinfeld Warehouse mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:09:47 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alicia Askenase Subject: Waldner and Myles contact info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear list, I am wondering if anyone can help me with either or both Eileen Myles' and Liz Waldner's contact information. Please backchannel. Thanks. Alicia Askenase ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:46:59 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick herron Subject: Re: Where else? continued In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > >Marjorie Perloff addresses a secondary question: with the > > >transformation of English into Cultural Studies, where else > > >but in writing programs, will literature be read? > > > > 1. The subway (F train) > > 2. Living room futon > > 3. Online > > 4. Cafe Orlin > > 5. Central Park > > 6. Prospect Park > > 7. Coney Island > > 8. Metro North line to & from Scarsdale > > 9. Greyhound Bus to & from Boston > > 10. Plane to & from New Orleans > 11. The bathtub > 12. At work > 13. In bed > 14. On a mountain/ by the creek > 15. On the stairs > 16. Before a hockey game > 17. At the dentist > 18. On the floor > 19. Over the phone > 20. Walking down Broadway > 21. At the post office 22. On my left buttock 23. In the 11th dimension 24. In prison 25. On stage 26. On the internet and flickering boob tubes everywhere 27. In Metlakatla, Alaska and Papeete, Tahiti 28. Where the freeways meet in Downey!(TM) 29. On a boat while fishing on the gulf stream 30. In my dreams ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:26:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Where else? continued In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Wright Laura E wrote: > On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Gary Sullivan wrote: > > > >Marjorie Perloff addresses a secondary question: with the > > >transformation of English into Cultural Studies, where else > > >but in writing programs, will literature be read? > > > > 1. The subway (F train) > > 2. Living room futon > > 3. Online > > 4. Cafe Orlin > > 5. Central Park > > 6. Prospect Park > > 7. Coney Island > > 8. Metro North line to & from Scarsdale > > 9. Greyhound Bus to & from Boston > > 10. Plane to & from New Orleans > 11. The bathtub > 12. At work > 13. In bed > 14. On a mountain/ by the creek > 15. On the stairs > 16. Before a hockey game > 17. At the dentist > 18. On the floor > 19. Over the phone > 20. Walking down Broadway > 21. At the post office 22. On the verandah 23. In the gazebo 24. At the coffeehouse 25. At the bar ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 11:22:22 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" Subject: Re: Where else? continued MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: Wright Laura E [mailto:Laura.Wright@COLORADO.EDU] Sent: Thursday, 26 July 2001 1:42 p.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Where else? continued On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Gary Sullivan wrote: > >Marjorie Perloff addresses a secondary question: with the > >transformation of English into Cultural Studies, where else > >but in writing programs, will literature be read? > > 1. The subway (F train) > 2. Living room futon > 3. Online > 4. Cafe Orlin > 5. Central Park > 6. Prospect Park > 7. Coney Island > 8. Metro North line to & from Scarsdale > 9. Greyhound Bus to & from Boston > 10. Plane to & from New Orleans 11. The bathtub 12. At work 13. In bed 14. On a mountain/ by the creek 15. On the stairs 16. Before a hockey game 17. At the dentist 18. On the floor 19. Over the phone 20. Walking down Broadway 21. At the post office 22. In the future 23. On a bender 24. Before long (conditions apply) 25. In prison 26. Under cover (nightfall) 26. On the 13th floor (this building) 28. Up the lazy river 29. Walking down Ponsoby Road 30. By the fire (roaring) 31. Beside myself (with laughter ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:31:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In a shout-out to Dodie and Elizabeth, here's a totally non-serious posting about Plath: I love Sylvia. She was the first poet I read seriously early on (and we're talking like 10 years old here -- what can I say, my mother owned "Ariel," it was my name) and probably has had the greatest impact on my own work of any single poet. I don't think the fact that she died young makes her less a remarkable read (many people would say the same of Rimbaud) or the fact that she was clearly aware of her own struggles with instability makes her an any less interesting writer. It is clear to me, whenever I read her, that she delighted in language, that it was a natural medium for her, that her ear was crystal. As much as I have turned away from narrative confessional over the years, I do not turn away from Sylvia. She is my pin-up girl (I literally have a picture of her in a bathing suit taped to the side of my computer, on which the hard drive is named "Sylvia") and muse. For sheer reckless drama-queen bravery and all-out ambition, self-pitying mockery and bitter passion, you just can't beat Ms. Plath. I dunno. Maybe it's a grrl thing? --- Dodie Bellamy wrote: > At 1:08 PM -0400 7/23/01, Bob Grumman wrote: > >anything near what I'd call a valid opinion of it. > I'm also > >prejudiced against the kind of confessional poems, > like "Daddy," > >that she was best-known for. > > I don't see how "Daddy" is confessional. It's a > nursery-rhyme > performance piece. And Plath wrote a lot of other > poems in other > styles. Daddy is supposed to be irritating and I > think it does what > she wanted it to do. > > As far as the rest of the discussion about whether > Plath is "great" > or not--I certainly wouldn't use the word "great" > myself to describe > anybody. I liked Fraser's use of it, just because > to say anything > positive about Plath as Poet is such a radical > intervention. > > The whole notion of "greatness" reeks of The Cannon, > which we on the > poetic list are supposed to be against, right? > (This is a gentle > joke, folks.) > > Dodie __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:36:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chicago Review Subject: New and Forthcoming from -Chicago Review- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable CHICAGO REVIEW 47:2 (Summer 2001) will be on newsstands soon; look out for the blue cover. * * * * * * * Issue includes: POEMS by Kenneth Fields ("'Fame is a motherfucker!' the poet saith") John Gallagher Timothy Liu Carol Moldaw ("There were no omens, only unread signs") John O'Leary Cole Swensen John Taggart ("Doing the shake on down line of the word stretched tight") Ko Un ("Eating new kimchi makes my mouth feel like a bridegroom") David Ray Vance =46ICTION by Eugene Dubnov J.M.G. Le Cl=E9zio REVIEWS of Louis Armand Martin Corless-Smith Peter Esterhazy Camille Guthrie Rachel Loden Michael O'Brien Jay Wright NOTES & COMMENTS on Brazilian Poetry Poetry and Science Kenward Elmslie Mark Nowak -Word of Mouth- Ibis Editions Joe Brainard Report on Vilenica * * * * * * SPECIAL OFFER: subscribe at our special webrate ($15), and receive=20 the back issue of your choice, gratis. Cite this offer. See webpage for a list of back issues and webrate details: http://humanities.uchicago.edu/review/. * * * * * * =46ORTHCOMING: 47:3 (Fall 2001): INTERVIEW with Thalia Field INTERVIEW with Frank Bidart =46ICTION by Fanny Howe and Harry Mathews POETRY by Ray DiPalma, Devin Johnston, Sarah Manguso, Reginald Shepherd, Joshua Weiner, and others 47:4 (Winter 2001): STAN BRAKHAGE: CORRESPONDENCES 48:1 & 2 (Spring/Summer 2002): NEW WRITING IN GERMAN -------------------------- CHICAGO REVIEW 5801 South Kenwood Avenue Chicago IL 60637 http://humanities.uchicago.edu/review/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 17:31:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Sylvia Plath Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" right on with your reading of "Daddy", Dodie! Also, if I'm in the right mood I can read anything and I do mean anything as "confessional"! I wish people would stop talking about how badly Sylvia Plath served her children; the only person she killed was herself. Taking a break, Elizabeth ___________________________________________ Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ___________________________________________ Elizabeth Treadwell http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page2.html ___________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:01:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Re: innovative language magazines Comments: cc: madison_cawein@HOTMAIL.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed madison cawein writes: "Could anyone list for me some print journals featuring innovative language poetry? I am familiar with conjunctions, facture, the Buffalo student magazines, and all the other well-known periodicals of that ilk, but I was wondering as to the existence of any journals like those that flourished in the heyday of the great L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E magazines." L= and Poetics Journal focused on poetics, rather than being "purely" literary in the way that, say, Roof was. Today, Chain is the best poetics journal alive today and we're fortunate to have it, though it tends to be too modest (alphabetical ordering being one way of minimizing editorial point of view, for example). It will be interesting to see what impact the addition of Cecilia Vicuna will have to the journal going forward. We mourn the short life of The Impercipient and the early issues especially of Situations. Both really had an edge, and an edge is good. HOW(ever) exists solely on the web at this point (as do Jacket & Readme), but these are three of our very best mags in any form whatsoever. As to print only, there are lots of good literary ones, from the high production value of Conjunctions to the more modest formats of Sal Mimeo, Ixnay and Combo. More problematic, it seems to me, is the absence of publications that have any sort of conscious program. It has been ten years since Apex of the M got a lot of attention just for having a point of view. I'm amazed at how few people get it that editorial point-of-view is the only true product of a journal -- everything else is just gathering. Given that we seem to have two parallel clusters of poets these days who make great use of process and documentation, one more text oriented a la Osman, Derksen and Cabris, the other bordering on the radically perfomative a la Goldsmith, Peters and Kim Stephens, I've been surprised that we haven't seen these two tendencies if not exactly square off, at least explore dissonances and commonalities. That would be a very useful focus and every one of these poets deserves more attention. Ron Silliman Ron Silliman ron.silliman@gte.net rsillima@hotmail.com DO NOT RESPOND to Tottels@Hotmail.com It is for listservs only. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:23:58 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Re: Lacan/Faking Literature query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh dear, all this again: a simple statement - what happened in the VeRT affair was that listserv posts by myself and others were taken, used and parodied without our agreement. Y'know, as they say, it would have been nice to be asked first. Secondly, the Lacan material isn't all that good, it comes across to me as a welter of second-hand ideas, repeating things that have been done far better x number of years ago, a quality I notice Mr Ammonides in the cliche-ridden character of your post, dark Parisian nights of beards and smoke indeed! So one has a certain amalgam of annoyance: bad writing coupled with bad form plus Andrew Felsinger's double-talk on top. Not on, that. Best David Bircumshaw ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 2:52 PM Subject: Lacan/Faking Literature query > David Bircumshaw mentioned, in lively response, the lively VeRT magazine. > > The "Dear Jacques Lacan" correspondence there is an odd, disturbing, > sometimes thrilling engagement with the topic of poetic madness! I know, > actually, that the "letters" and introductory note by Slavoj Zizek are being > translated into French for publication in a journal there. Also into > Portuguese, for publication in Brazil, though I don't think that the > "poeticized" posts by Jacques Debrot that David refers to are to be included > in these translations. If he wishes, I could try to find out for him. > > I once attended, in 1994, a lecture in Paris, given jointly by Jacques Alain > Miller and Zizek. It was quite incredible, the intensity of it. Cigarette > smoke filled the room, of course, since this was France. A huge b/w photo of > the stern Lacan hung behind the podium, glaring out at the crowd of mostly > Ecole Normale students and professors. Zizek shouted and waved his arms, then > stroked his beard and was silent for a long time, then waved his arms, and so > on, as if in this alternation he were representing some quality of the > unconscious. The light above him gave the smoke that enveloped him a fine, > bluish color, like a halo of some kind. It was all, as I said, very intense. > > On a completely different note, can anyone provide me with an email for K.K. > Ruthven, author of _Faking Literature_, a book just released by Cambridge UP? > Thank you. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:43:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: eddress for Cole Swenson? In-Reply-To: <200107251640.JAA09115@hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If anyone has an email address (or regular address) for Cole Swenson, I'd appreciate a backchannel. Thanks, Arielle __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:32:17 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Where else? continued In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 7:42 PM -0600 7/25/01, Wright Laura E wrote: >On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Gary Sullivan wrote: > >> >Marjorie Perloff addresses a secondary question: with the >> >transformation of English into Cultural Studies, where else >> >but in writing programs, will literature be read? >> >> 1. The subway (F train) >> 2. Living room futon >> 3. Online >> 4. Cafe Orlin >> 5. Central Park >> 6. Prospect Park >> 7. Coney Island >> 8. Metro North line to & from Scarsdale >> 9. Greyhound Bus to & from Boston >> 10. Plane to & from New Orleans >11. The bathtub >12. At work >13. In bed >14. On a mountain/ by the creek >15. On the stairs >16. Before a hockey game >17. At the dentist >18. On the floor >19. Over the phone >20. Walking down Broadway >21. At the post office 22. in english department undergraduate classes 22. in english department graduate classes 23. in french department undergraduate classes 24. in french department graduate classes 25. in german department undergraduate classes 26. in german department graduate classes 27. in comparative literature undergraduate classes 28. in comparative literature graduate classes 29. in classics etc 30. in religion etc. 31. in africana programs etc. 32. in latino/a/chicano/a programs etc 33. in "world literature" etc. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 14:52:59 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dodie. I was being silly. Actually I am positive about Sylvia Plath's writing and of course terms such as "great and "genius" are silly. I feel that it will be good to hear people talking about Plath and others more rationally: given that we obviously cannot separate biographical adn more "objective" creative things. Discussion about Hannah Weiner and Plath and others is good I think because poems such as"You're" are extraordinary yet people have paid abit toomauch attention to "Daddy" and her book "The Bell Jar" (which I must admit I read WHEN i was depressed myself so that didnt help). But people are what they are with all their streangths and weaknesses...show me a "sane" poet! Of course that little burst begs the question of what's sanity...we are all watching each other. From Plath people can learn about her exquisite craftpersonship (to be politically correct here) but maybe feel upset or disturbed sopmewhat by her choice...if it was a choice and I think it was...to commit suicide. I'm thinking of the young man who commited suicide (who was on this List) recently, and I'm thinking of my own daughters, an my son. These thoughts bring me back to earth: no matter how hard it gets I have a responsibility o live. But there is an interesting book on the personal etc in poetry by Alan Williamson caled "Introspection and Contemporary American Poetry" which covers the confessionals...I havent read it for some time..but his "take" is somewhat that the path chosen eg by Berryman if pursued more happily or perhaps more "logically" may have lead him through and out of his torment etc. Writing the "Dream Songs" didnt save him from suicide...but maybe Lowell was "saved" by his Life Studies...then he discusses other more recent poets and their way of dealing with personal aspects of their life and other subjects. Lyn Heijinian's "My Life" (in contrast to a more "direct" or confessional biographical approach) I see as a positive "way out" and or through things (of course its also a fascinating work regardless of its "autobiographical" aspects) and everyone who writes will be in some way self-expressing although the degree to which that is masked or diverted or objectified depends on the individual. Re Bob's comment on "Daddy": it's attracted a lot of atention....but one point: nursery rhymes etc can be quite hauntingly powerful ways of writing: or the technique or sound of the nursery rhyme. Just some thoughts of a dry brain. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard.tylr" To: Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 2:12 PM Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath > Dodie. You're quite wrong: it's well known that (or it can be shown that ) > Sylvia Plath (who gassed herself to death while her children were nearby) > was America's or possibly the World's greatest poetic genius of all time. > Richard Taylor. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dodie Bellamy" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 12:06 PM > Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath > > > > At 1:08 PM -0400 7/23/01, Bob Grumman wrote: > > >anything near what I'd call a valid opinion of it. I'm also > > >prejudiced against the kind of confessional poems, like "Daddy," > > >that she was best-known for. > > > > I don't see how "Daddy" is confessional. It's a nursery-rhyme > > performance piece. And Plath wrote a lot of other poems in other > > styles. Daddy is supposed to be irritating and I think it does what > > she wanted it to do. > > > > As far as the rest of the discussion about whether Plath is "great" > > or not--I certainly wouldn't use the word "great" myself to describe > > anybody. I liked Fraser's use of it, just because to say anything > > positive about Plath as Poet is such a radical intervention. > > > > The whole notion of "greatness" reeks of The Cannon, which we on the > > poetic list are supposed to be against, right? (This is a gentle > > joke, folks.) > > > > Dodie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:27:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: Re: SORRY In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Wow, what a totally great idea. I will try to find my most awful rejection (although not my most awful poem -- you don't really want awful poems, do you?) and send it along. Thanks a billion dollars for BoMa, by the way. I had a great time reading and a great time listening. It was also so well-run and ecelectic! Great job! We were very impressed by how things even were almost kinda on time. A miracle, really, for poets. I hope it was a fun experience for you and that you'll do it again next year (if you need help, I'm here). All best, Arielle --- Jim Behrle wrote: > This announces a new magazine: > > ~SORRY~ > a journal of > previously rejected work. > > Please send to: > > tinaiskingofmonsterisland@hotmail.com > > SORRY Jim Behrle > 17 A Imrie Rd. > Allston, MA 02134 > > If possible, please send a copy > of the rejection letter. Old, > potentially embarrassing submissions > are encouraged. > > Take good care. > Jim > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:29:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: laurie macrae Subject: re library lists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Another librarian (public) wants to tell you that what you should be sure of is that your publisher gets your books to a major disributor (SPD,Ingram, B&T) because we don't order directly from publishers. We can't generate a separate PO for every publisher that publishes what we want..impossible. So we create open PO's for amounts like 5 or 10,000 that we can order from all year. Laurie __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:02:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Two new books by Nada Gordon Mime-Version: 1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Two new books by Nada Gordon Are Not Our Lowing Heifers Sleeker Than Night-Swollen Mushrooms? (with drawings by Gary Sullivan) Spuyten Duyvil, 2001, 124 pages, $12 P.O. Box 1852, Cathedral Station, New York, NY 10025 http://spuytenduyvil.net "I don't know why I am always want you - *someone* - to have my interiority - despite the vididly glowing taboo burning the fabric of summer I am really wrestling - naked - with those institutions - mmm hmmm You want (I want) your mind to wander into the white loaf (catamaran): not until the focus of the voice is like a fixed star in your head, kept in position by the powers inside and outside your body, can you sing" Foriegnn Bodie (with drawings by Gary Sullivan) Detour, 2001, 96 pages, $10 558 – 11th Street, #1B, Brooklyn, NY 11215 "ginseng bottled like a fetus and a fat god lifting something i have a face for the companion like a manta ray _oh, come down the worth is in the fear it smells like cow parsnip around here_" Order either from the publishers or from SPD About the author’s previous book, Anime (Voces Puerulae, 2000, o.p.) "... a mysterious alchemical poem made of short couplets invoking numerous weird tangents whilst threading through an urgent message of erotic longing and memory. ... Anime investigates an objective architecture but pulses at an urgent speed." –Kimberly Lyons, Poetry Project Newsletter "The gift of Nada’s poetry is the way she continually arranges such movements of communion without trying to ingratiate herself toward the reader. Even as she sings of love and its grandeur, she doesn’t get locked into postures of ‘self-seriousness’ ... No form of emotionality is estranged from her work. Anger, fear, hope, affection, humor, hesitation, pleasure and need all have a home here, as they do in life." –David Hess, Possum Pouch "This is both love poem, functionally so (it was originally sent to its addressee), and meditation on ‘animation’ (love’s goal?) in each of that word’s various senses. How the lover is drawn (in). The poem, written with great urgency, giddiness and wit, is every bit as animated as you’d expect from a poem with its title. And, if you know her work, from this very animated poet." –Gary Sullivan Samples of Nada Gordon's work appear on her website at: http://www.jps.net/nada/nadaroom An interview with Nada appears in Readme: http://www.jps.net/nada/issueone _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 17:46:09 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: the internment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan and The List. Another coup by America's...well he should be P.L. if that could be permitted. Keep them rolling Alan. Richard. PS The man obviously doesnt need encouragement.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 5:10 PM Subject: the internment > - > > > > ironically jean-paul crayfish was buried today > with a rock for a tombstone engraved by a french theorist > jean-paul, it was in leslie's and tom's roof-top garden beneath the > trellis > there was a distinct emanation from the earth in which he was interned > you could feel something crossing the borderline of perception, the > slightest apprehension > the apprehension was itself ghost-like, almost imperceptible as if you > were about to feel something and then thought better of it > a slight haze in the northwestern evening sky, there were > thunderheads everywhere, the sky was waiting > it did feel as if the sky reached down with an uncanny openness > the sky and jean-paul spoke in an inchoate whisper, subaudible > there was a lightening immediately above the stone as the > emanation from the body of jean-paul rose around it, and > gathered force again, immediately above it, in the form of > a cylinder or pillar of some sort of invisible and wraith- > like spiritual substance > tom chanted in a latin i did not understand but the words > jean-paul were audible, as if in response to jean-paul's > subvocalizations > azure lowered the body into the grave prepared by us, along > with the water surrounded him, as jean-paul was buried in > his breathing and elemental world > i took a series of photographs under the gloomy and > unnatural sky, holding to the rich and deepening earth > dampened colors muted within the membrane of the trellis > tom played the slow music of death and dirge, schrei- > opera and totenlieder, we silently drank a glass of > bulgarian white wine in silence > the sky trembled and waters flew, a moment in a > shattered universe, a universe utterly devoid of > meaning > for a second we looked toward the other as if there > were no return > > > :: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 23:35:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Leonard Brink Subject: untitled:a magazine of prose poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The 2nd issue of untitled: a magazine of prose poetry is now available. Included in this 209 page volume is a full-length book by Pierre = Reverdy, translated by Keith Waldrop; a collaboration by Beth Anderson, = Leonard Brink, Laynie Browne, Cydney Chadwick, John Olson, Elizabeth = Robinson & Spencer Selby; and work by Philip Lamantia, Eric Selland, Gil = Ott, Andrew Joron, Garrett Caples, Jono Schneider, George Kalamaras, = Oskar Pastior (tr. Rosmarie Waldrop), Ray DiPlma, Andrew Zawacki, Susan = M. Schultz, Mathew Cooperman, Jamie Perez, Stephen Ratcliffe, Wylie O' = Sullivan, Morton Marcus, Albert Flynn DeSilver, Sheila E. Murphy, = Arielle Greenberg, Heather C. Akerberg, Geoff Bouvier, Roselle Angwin & = Rupert Loydell, Rusty Morrison, Eric Baus, John Mercuri Dooley, Martha = Ronk, and Craig Watson. You can order this magazine from SPD for $8 or you can subscribe at the = rate of $6 per issue by sending a check, payable to Leonard Brink, to = 327 Cleveland Ave., Santa Cruz, CA, 95060. Please specify if you want to include issue #1 in your order. Still = available for an unlimited time, it features writing by: John Olson, Gad = Hollander, Keith Waldrop, Andrew Felsinger, Rosmarie Waldrop, Paul = Naylor, Ray Ragosta, Elke Erb, John Yau, Sarah Rosenthal, Francis Raven, = Spencer Selby, Jono Schneider, Rupert Loydell, Tosa Motokiyu, Patrick = Durgin, Gene Frumkin, Leonard Brink, Laynie Browne, Sheila Murphy, = Jackson Mac Low, Ethan Paquin, Gian Lombardo, Peter Johnson, Dan = Featherston, Craig Watson, and Dennis Phillips. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:09:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: binary thinking in reposte? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Joe and Kass, There is a lot there and I'm still digesting it but I want to bring = something up early in the discussion. I was somewhat disappointed that = in this day and age, much of the discussion there revolved around binary = ways of thinking and dichotomies, such as experience and craft. It = seems to me this is basically a verbal, intellectual, and even dare I = say masculine way of thinking, and the tripartite division you mention = doesn't really change this perspective. As far as 'writing' itself goes an example of visual and sound = poetry would be the work of the webartery people and there are of course = numerous antecedents. The same is true of works that actually = incorporate rather than just describe the body (there are fewer = exemplars here).=20 I'm not sure how to translate these directions into pedagogy but I = think it's worth the effort? One direction (and I might be slipping off = the track here) would be the 'workshop' as a transition from expeience = felt to experience sold as a piece of writing - long long ago I was at a = workshop that John Garner ran...I brought in my experiences and the day = I read them in class he arrived on his motorcycle. as you recall that's = how his life ended. those particular experiences of mine never were = published and this particular anecdote takes on the character of a movie = starring Grady, but I think this type of interpersonal 'encounter' - = perhaps less melodramatic in most cases is an integral psrt of the = transition from experience to crafted experience. tom =3D<}}}}}}}}}****((((((((&&&&&&&&&~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Metaphor/Metonym for health at = http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Black Winds Press at = http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/blackwin.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:20:21 +0000 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: about mags MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I highly recommend the new journal Ur-Vox which was just mentioned. and Second International Anthology on Paradoxism. Ed: Florentin Smarandache, UNM, Mathematics Dept. / 200 College Rd/ Gallup, NM 87301 one of the best viz-po collections in print form. The staff recommends: Shearsman / Lark Rise, Fore Street, Kentisbeare / Cullhompton, Devon EX15 2AD, ENGLAND Pressed Wafer (#1) / 9 Columbus Square / Boston, MA 02116 6 X 6 (#1) / 112 Pioneer St / Red Hook / Brooklyn, NY 11231 Blue Collar Review / PO Box 11417 / Norfolk, VA 23517 combo (#5 Bill Berkson iss) /31 Perrin Ave / Pawtucket, RI 02861 Sniper Logic VIII /Campus Box 226/U of Colorado/ Boulder, Co 80309 Untitled (#1) / c/o Instress / PO Box 3124 / Saratoga, CA 95070 Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:38:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Books on middle eastern music? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hello everyone, This may be the wrong place to ask this, but I'm kind of at an impasse. I'm looking for a decent overview in English of middle eastern music, something that covers more or less popular music (Ibrahim Tatlises, Nagat, Oum Kalsoum, Asmahan & Farid, Salah, Alain Merheb, etc.) I can't find anything online (except one book on Asmahan that I think U Tex published). I did flip through a book I found the other day, a book on World Music, that had a middle eastern music chapter, but the section was pretty slim ... like one or two representative artists from each country. I also tried asking at Rashid's in Brooklyn, but no one knew of anything. I'm looking for a TOME. I mean, you know. Something fairly substantial. The Absolute Ideal would be something that has, along with histories & overviews, like, mini-reviews or descriptions of actual CDs & tapes in print. [Holds hands out in frustrated gesture.] Is this so much to ask for? I'd even settle, actually, for in-print monographs on individual artists, if anyone knows of any. Or, if there's a substantial "overview" website I haven't found -- I *have* run across sites for Kalsoum, etc. Help me! Please! Backchannel! Gary _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:27:48 -0400 Reply-To: Nate and Jane Dorward Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nate and Jane Dorward Subject: Walt Whitman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Juts thought I'd point out that the (disputed) recording of Whitman is also available via Tom Russell's CD _The Man from God Knows Where_ (though with musical accompaniment)--this is a musical account of the immigrant experience, with a rather nifty American-Norwegian-Irish band and guest slots from Dave Van Ronk & Iris DeMent. Anyway, FYI. all best --N Nate & Jane Dorward ndorward@sprint.ca THE GIG magazine: http://www.geocities.com/ndorward/ 109 Hounslow Ave., Willowdale, ON, M2N 2B1, Canada ph: (416) 221 6865 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 11:00:34 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Dodie wrote: > > > As far as the rest of the discussion about whether Plath is "great" > > or not--I certainly wouldn't use the word "great" myself to describe > > anybody. I liked Fraser's use of it, just because to say anything > > positive about Plath as Poet is such a radical intervention. > > > > The whole notion of "greatness" reeks of The Cannon, which we on the > > poetic list are supposed to be against, right? (This is a gentle > > joke, folks.) > >Well, I've always been for a canon, the making of which is unavoidable, >anyway. I just want it to exclude poets I think are not very good, >and include those I like. > > --Bob G. No, Bob, Dodie's right. The problem with canons is that, ultimately, it's institutions who decide what gets included, & these decisions are based on institutional interests rather than on any "pure" notion of poetic greatness. The other problem is: who decides what's great, or what constitutes greatness, even if an attempt is made to do so outside the gravitational pull of money, power & prestige? We all make distinctions, we all arbitrarily exclude so-&-so from our own personal "canons," but to say that one is in favor of this process of institutional endorsement is quite another matter: & in fact, Bob, I don't think you really are in favor of that. As for the Plath discussion, I do think it reeked a bit of the covetous deference to an idealized "Poetic Greatness" (she died too early to have been called great, etc.), & I think Dodie was on the mark to gently point this out. Mark DuCharme _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 11:15:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cadaly Subject: cage query MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT miekel and, Thomas Bell or someone: Where can I find precise info on the way Cage used the I Ching? How did he get from 64 to 26, for example? Sticks or (binary) coins? In other words, I am finding info that says he created a text bed and applied mesolist to it, but that mesolist searched for letters in words he could use to create mesostics. Then how is I Ching involved? I'm guessing choosing letters? But he used words. I Ching keywords? Help. Do hexagrams or randomly-generated numbers relate to letters? Words? Rgds, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 22:54:54 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "B.E. Basan" Subject: Re: Nike Tries To Jam the Jammers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I came across this while searching the web. Much worse than T.S. Eliot not completeing his Phd. It was written by someone, Economist David Henderson from Stanford, who has completed his. >>Candida Rosa Lopez, an employee in a Nicaraguan garment factory, works long hours over a sewing machine at less than a dollar an hour. Interviewed recently by a Miami Herald reporter, Ms. Lopez has a message for people in the United States and other wealthy countries who are nervous about buying goods from "sweatshops": "I wish more people would buy the clothes we make." Contrary to what you have heard, sweatshops in third-world countries are a good deal for the people who work in them. Why? Because work, other than slave labor, is an exchange. A worker chooses a particular job because she thinks herself better off in that job than at her next-best alternative. Most of us would regard a low-paying job in Nicaragua or Honduras as a lousy job. But we're not being asked to take those jobs. Those jobs are the best options those workers have, or else they would quit and work elsewhere. You don't make someone better off by taking away the best of a bunch of bad choices. Many workers in third-world sweatshops have left even harder, lower-paying jobs in agriculture to move to garment factories. Moreover, sweatshops are a normal step in economic development. Singapore, Malaysia, South Korea, and Hong Kong all had sweatshop jobs thirty years ago. They don't now because workers in those countries have acquired skills and employers have accumulated capital. That's what will happen in Honduras, Nicaragua, and other poor countries-if we only let it. What happens when people persuade companies not to hire children to work long hours? Oxfam, the British charity, reported that when factory owners in Bangladesh were pressured to fire child laborers, thousands of the children became prostitutes or starved. Yet the National Labor Committee's executive director, Charles Kernaghan, goes around the country attacking sweatshops and trying to put legal barriers in the way of people buying from sweatshops. Robert Reich, former U.S. labor secretary under President Clinton, pressured Reebok International and Sears Roebuck to get ShinWon, their South Korean subcontractor in Honduras, to lay off fifty teenage girls. He apparently did not ask, or care, what happened to them after they lost their jobs. Why are Kernaghan and Reich hurting the people they claim to care about? Simple. The people they really care about are unionized garment workers in the United States; the NLC is funded by U.S. unions. The garment workers lost on NAFTA and lost on GATT. This is their last-ditch effort to prevent foreign competition. The next time you feel guilty for buying clothes made in a third-world sweatshop, remember this: you're helping the workers who made that clothing. The people who should feel guilty are those who argue against, or use legislation to prevent us, giving a boost up the economic ladder to members of the human race unlucky enough to have been born in a poor country. Someone who intentionally gets you fired is not your friend. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ray Bianchi To: Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 8:29 PM Subject: Re: Nike Tries To Jam the Jammers > sorry to rain on everyone's parade but almost all imported apparel is made > in sweatshops, I worked in Bolivia for an NGO when I got out of college and > I went to visit a woman I knew at a sewing plant she could not get up > because her wrist was chained to the sewing machine she got two bathroom > breaks a day (12 hour day) and the rest of the day she spent sewing. Also, > you know those pigment dyed sweatshirts (they look like colored chalk) > everyone likes from LL Bean? That effect is achieved by using children > walking in vats of dye. > R > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "patrick herron" > To: > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 5:54 PM > Subject: Nike Tries To Jam the Jammers > > > > Nike ran an ad this year in select cities that read, "THE MOST OFFENSIVE > > BOOTS WE"VE EVER MADE 100% SLAVE LABOUR". Seems Nike really doesn't give > a > > shit, and they think you don't either. Find a Niketown or Nike Factory > > Outlet near you, light a stinkbomb, and leave it there. > > > > > > http://adbusters.org/creativeresistance/36/1.html > > > > THE SMELL OF SWOOSH > > This is not an Art Project > > > > Five years after it was exposed as an unethical corporation, Nike is still > > exploiting sweatshop labor, still paying Indonesian workers a few nickels > an > > hour while rewarding its PR celebrities with millions. After all the > campus > > campaigns and culture jamming, kids all over the world still proudly > flaunt > > the swoosh. In fact, Nike has grown so cocky of late that it's starting to > > make fun of its critics. > > > > Earlier this year, Nike launched a campaign of jamming the jammers. > > Billboards like the one shown above popped up all over urban Australia. > Then > > they were postered by "saboteurs" - Fans For Fairer Football ffff.com.au, > > complaining that the new Nikes gave wearers an unfair advantage. The only > > "activists" in this case, of course, are in the Nike marketing department. > > > > Real activists responded, jamming the jam on the jammers. Websites like > > nikesweatshop.net and bantheboot.com slammed the company for looking to > make > > (another) fat profit at the expense of its sweatshop workers. The bogus > FFFF > > website was quickly shut down, and everyone was left to wonder: What the > > hell just happened? Here's one answer. Nike has begun to trade on public > > cynicism. > > > > Decades of marketing have attuned us to watch advertising for signs of any > > shift in what is and isn't cool. Today, this trend consciousness pervades > > every element of culture. It took hard work to link the words "Nike" and > > "sweatshop" in the public mind, but as that idea is repeated, it steadily > > loses freshness. It becomes unfashionable, then clichéd. Finally, it > becomes > > "cool" to dismiss the sweatshop accusation, even though the accusation is > > true. And so - without significantly changing its practices - Nike gets a > > chance to mock its critics, with the public laughing along. > > > > Culture jamming can do serious damage to a corporation's brand. It can > also, > > as Nike is proving, become a marketing hall of mirrors. Nike knew that its > > "Offensive" campaign would trigger a backlash. They were counting on it. > And > > now they're back in the spotlight, this time on their terms. > > > > What Phil Knight forgets is that culture jamming isn't some kind of > > postmodern art project. It's a form of sharp public criticism and direct > > action. If Nike turns culture jamming into a corporate mindfuck at the > > expense of sweatshop laborers, then we, too, can shift tactics. > > > > Obviously the brand damage we've wrought on Nike so far isn't enough - it > > needs to be more visceral still. So let us reach deep into our bag of > tricks > > and pranks for a ruckus that can't be ignored. Hello, what do we have > here? > > Ahhh . . . the humble stink bomb. > > > > Let us celebrate the stink bomb. Safe. Easy to make. Simple to carry. And > > the smell - the smell can linger for days. > > > > Imagine small groups of jammers hitting Nike shops worldwide, again and > > again, with a harmless, rotten-eggs stench. Not a very clever message, > but, > > like tear gas, one that's very hard to forget. And simple, too: Nike, > you're > > tainted; your brand stinks! Spraying a little perfume around doesn't make > > you clean. > > > > Unswooshing Nike will also get the word out to other wayward corp-orations > > that we the people have our limits. If you debase our discourse, if you > blur > > the line between authentic process and corporate spin, if you openly fan > the > > fires of cynicism, then you are going to get stung. > > > > - Kalle Lasn (from Adbusters.org) > > > > > > Patrick > > > > Patrick Herron > > patrick@proximate.org > > http://proximate.org/ > > getting close is what > > we're all about here! > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 07:38:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: Re: ~ebr~ piece on creative writing pedagogy... In-Reply-To: <005d01c114ac$f8a9e9e0$e3565e18@hawaii.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Susan! I used to run into the anti-criticism attitudes in my intro. to poetry courses -- I learned after a semester or two simply to bide my time -- within a few class meetings, that same person could usually be counted on to disagree vociferously with another student about the reading of a poem -- I would stop things at that point to look carefully at the disagreement that had just happened -- The students would usually acknowledge that they did in fact have some sort of critical criteria already at work (though one would usually say that he or she was simply reading what was there and the other was reading something "into" the work -- but we still had room to discuss how they came to know this!) -- this discussion could usefully move on to questions about how the students had come to adopt the criteria and strategies that they already worked with and to reflect upon them a bit more, well, critically --- and once you start down that path, you're a critic -- " Subjects hinder talk." -- Emily Dickinson Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 119 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:45:32 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: roger.day@GLOBALGRAPHICS.COM Subject: Re: Where else? continued Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii you misunderstand - that's not -reading- she's talking about - that's -reading- At 26/07/2001 02:42:16, Wright Laura E wrote: # On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Gary Sullivan wrote: # # > >Marjorie Perloff addresses a secondary question: with the # > >transformation of English into Cultural Studies, where else # > >but in writing programs, will literature be read? # > # > 1. The subway (F train) # > 2. Living room futon # > 3. Online # > 4. Cafe Orlin # > 5. Central Park # > 6. Prospect Park # > 7. Coney Island # > 8. Metro North line to & from Scarsdale # > 9. Greyhound Bus to & from Boston # > 10. Plane to & from New Orleans # 11. The bathtub # 12. At work # 13. In bed # 14. On a mountain/ by the creek # 15. On the stairs # 16. Before a hockey game # 17. At the dentist # 18. On the floor # 19. Over the phone # 20. Walking down Broadway # 21. At the post office 22. Up a tree. 23. On a hill 24. On the beach 25. Trukels' Cafe 26. Borders 27. Cambridge Central Library 30. On the toilet. Roger ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 15:59:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: Alan (Ms.) Jennifer Sondheim LEADER OF THE PACK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit What I'm not finding on a quick skim of that site, Ig', is a specific reference to pure punctuation, wordless poetry, ---which is what Sondheim's doing. --- Regardless, Futurism would still sort of reenforce my description ("their futurity is so time-tunneled back to us"), no? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Igor Satanovsky wrote: > Actually, I don't see anything new or innovative here. The idea of syntax poetry is a direct extention of Italian & Russian Futurism ideas, and was extensively materialized in the XX century. You can check out Marinetti's essay "Destruction of Syntax—Imagination without strings—Words-in-Freedom" > at http://www.unknown.nu/futurism/destruction.html > > Igor Satanovsky ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:46:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: letterless and dropping names In-Reply-To: <3B61C826.8A2BE8A9@columbia.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This discussion among Jeffrey and Ig reminds me that I never mentioned Tim Atkins' slim volume from The Figures, something like "20 non-poems" -- Schwittersy cummingsy -- so here I am mentioning it, along with a seconding nod for Mark Peters's search engine/questionnaire compilings in the new Deluxe Rubber Chicken (where you will also find some work by K Silem Mohammad's anti-nominee, ficus strangulensis -- Peter Culley, yes we are retrograde, pathetic even, in our inscription in these rites of cultural accreditation which we allegedly oppose, you get to choose between disgust and anthropology) but Ron! Ron! you can't introduce a Hegelian conflict where no conflict is, crave progress tho we all apparently must... have a jolly weekend in among the volcanoes, blast Ken Boothe from your 8-tracks - Jordan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 14:47:49 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: binary thinking in riposte? Comments: cc: Kass Fleisher In-Reply-To: <0b9301c11649$7c78cdc0$737c0218@ruthfd1.tn.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" tom, briefly, we *do* call for a fully artistic (and for that matter, digital) approach to the workshop setting... hence our discussion, in brief, of the status of the artist in the university---and re the u, we find bill readings's idea of u-as-transnational corporation an apt point of departure... re binaries in particular, please see our note 11 (and scattered references to binaries throughout)... no doubt though that, given our own disciplinary histories (e.g., doctorates in anguish), we produce something of a textual bias... though we find that, practically speaking, we must deal (i.e., "reform") existing configurations of anguish depts... but, but---anything, esp. these days, in the u.s., that serves to aggrandize *self* is, as we see it, only going to contribute to the workshop as a place (primarily) of social regulation, and hardly a place wherein the sort of community (term used advisedly) we would like to see emerge (organic metaphor, yes) can emerge... we seek (1) to subvert the idea that the workshop is not a place of knowing, of knowledge-making---which is how the workshop is generally treated, de facto---and which is another way of saying that we seek to situate the workshop in a fully epistemic, and not simply expressivist, discourse (this gesture not simply toward the experiential, but to more institutionalized forms of knowledge); and (2) to go one step farther to argue that socially-transformative, dialogic, non-hierarchical forms of inquiry and practice are necessary so as to position writing as a vital factor of social change... however distant, difficult, casual the causal relationships... ergo our nod to progressivist educational practices, BUT with a specific skepticism re the more humanist underpinnings of same... : as social-materialist as that might sound (and we eagerly await criteek from the unreconstructed portions of our audience).. as we see it, in terms of north american intellectual histories, social change, and workshop s-o-p, this has everything to do with 3rd and post-3rd wave feminism, as the latter portion of our piece would imply... don't know if i'm getting to your provocations, but thanx much for the back & forth, tom!... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:56:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Alan (Ms.) Jennifer Sondheim LEADER OF THE PACK In-Reply-To: <126.1fc1f22.28916ff0@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Syntactical work has been all over the place - Jochen Gerz comes to mind; I wasn't certainly claiming originality, but instead works that fit in with my general concerns; for example the coding of the last in which the four # stand in for a sliding economy /work/fuck/kill otherwise lost in the shuffle. Alan Internet text at http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Partial at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html Trace Projects at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm CDROM of collected work 1994-2000/1 available: write sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 17:12:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Allen H. Bramhall" Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath (oh sister..gimme a break) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Greenberg To: Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 12:31 PM Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath > I dunno. Maybe it's a grrl thing? > as one who struggles to create a balance in publishing and promoting work by women rather it be in literature or housekeeping, i shudder at this sort of statement. i strive for equality rather than chic feminism. beth garrison ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 17:30:20 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: RaeA100900@AOL.COM Subject: Re: innovative language magazines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm fond of Shiny, for what it's worth. I generally find that I want to read all of it. Rae ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 17:41:48 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: Grammar and Agency in Genoa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit try NY suntim safire think he reently "addressed" this ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 17:45:39 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit read Hughes' "The Lake" after that always looking over my shoulder whilst paddling ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 17:48:50 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: fwd: audio recording of Walt Whitman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Edison did record Whitman according to Edison Nat'l Site West Orange NJ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 18:24:54 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massoni Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sylvia was macushla compared to Anne sexton's child rearing habits ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 18:36:24 -0400 Reply-To: Nate and Jane Dorward Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nate and Jane Dorward Subject: A shrivelled world MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Listmembers may recall that a few months back I'd plugged Keith Tuma's new Oxford book, _Anthology of 20th-Century British and Irish Poetry_, a book I helped out with & believe is a landmark book for its evenhanded presentation of both a "canonical" mainstream poetry & the many varieties of small-press, modernist & avantgarde poetries in the field. Robert Archambeau responded by predicting that such a book would be jumped on with great hostility by the UK literary establishment, which is extremely keen to protest any such evenhanded treatment. Anyway, those with an interest in reception-history might want to consult the Summer issue of _Poetry Review_, the organ of Britain's Poetry Society, which has one of the most virulent reviews I've read in some time, by the establishment poet/critic Sean O'Brien--the title is "Bizarro's Bounty". (It makes the Potts _TLS_ review of _Conductors of Chaos_, mooted about here some years back, look polite & informed.) -- A couple extracts give the flavour: Poetry is too important to be left to zealots. Louis Simpson's great poem 'To the Western World' ends "And grave by grave we civilize the ground." The significance of this would not be lost on native Americans, or the Vietnamese, but in the absence of war a much more effective arm of "civilization" is everywhere in play, namely cultural imperialism. It was once said that Americans found no cultural differences so complex that they couldn't be overcome by ignoring them, and in a minor-outpost-in-the-badlands way, Keith Tuma's clodhopping anthology is part of this enterprise. We are to be made safe for Modernism. Apparently we've been denying its existence. Tuma wants us to know he comes in friendship, to explain how things really are. As he notes, most of his readership will actually be college students in the USA, who won't know any better, but the introduction reads as though aimed at some readers in Britain and Ireland who may take issue with his approach. For them he has this warning: Some. . .will be eager to point out that I am an American, and that my insistence that twentieth century British and Irish poetry be recognized for its contributions to modernism reflects American values. Forms of this insidious representational logic, in which national identity is paramount and citizenship magically confers authentic expertise, have had a devastating effect on much of the poetry produced in this century. . .[There] is. . .a problem with the use of reified or shallow notions of tradition to exclude whole ranges of poetry. The distorted rhetorics that can result from an appeal to something like national tradition or "Englishness" have far-reaching consequences on both the reading and writing of poetry. . . "Insidious representational logic", eh? Whereas Tuma has presumably acquired some one-size-fits-all insight which carries him beyond the reach of these ills. There are parallels here with George W. Bush's recent European visit. Admittedly Dubya had a missile shield to impose on his "freedom-loving allies", or else; Tuma only has poetry, but you can't fault his commitment to sharing the task of endarkenment. The inclination to the Left which might be inferred from this anthology-and which in a rational world would separate him from the Republican president (doh!)-serves merely to illustrate what happens in a country where the Left has no public political presence at all: it retires to college and tries to take over a shrivelled version of the world from there. & here's another chunk: So: Modernism? No problem. On the other hand, there is a dislike of bad poems of any persuasion, as Tuma could have discovered if he'd bothered to ask anyone. (Anyone that is, apart from dear old Eric Jealous and E. K. Resentment, who normally can't get into the phone book, never mind an anthology). This anthology contains a good deal of work everyone should read, of course, but it's bloated by a large number of bad contemporary poems-including dull, pretentious, tin-eared, parasitic, fraudulent poems, poems whose only claim to verbal life is the vast support machine of allusion-by-numbers which turns them into inflated footnotes to their own sources. (The notes, heroically assembled by the editor's assistant, Nate Dorward, are many times more interesting than these poems). For every Roy Fisher there are ten Norbert Nomarks. If these people want to call themselves Modernist in their orientation, or Post-modernist, or "innovative", that's up to them and their sponsors, but here's a term which really embraces them: Post-imaginative. With the aid of a trainspotter's eye for the dictionary or the history book you could write a good deal of this stuff without the least glimmering of verbal ability or imaginative life-which suits its authors down to the ground. They have managed to find a rationale for elevating tedium into a virtue. The results will soon seem as dull and disposable as the talentless contemporaries of John Coltrane do in comparison to the real thing. What marks some of it out is that it's imitative of theory rather than practice. More interesting, and depressing, is the sense that for all the alleged avant-garde's opposition to capitalism, the work its poets produce is so often the dead simulacrum with which capitalism necessarily replaces the imagination-"important" but empty, "dissident" but monopolistic. There are at any rate partial exceptions. Tom Raworth and Lee Harwood have their moments, as does the late John Riley, despite a glaring debt to Eliot. The late Barry MacSweeney has something rather more. Among the younger contributors Helen McDonald [sic] (b. 1970) has an ear and an eye. You hope she'll shed the anachronisms on which so much super-modernity relies. Caroline Bergvall (b. 1964) has a smart way with a pun, though the trail of suggestion leads (in a way reminiscent of Roethke) back to the nursery: "a dirty doldo's / one fatpig / fruitcake / in the bowl of my pill". Now wash your hands. Just to give some sense of what O'Brien does approve of in poetry, here's an extract from his latest book of poetry, _Downriver_: If I am doomed to winter on the Campo Mediocrita Whose high plateau becomes the windy shore Of an ocean with only one side, to wait Where the howling sunshine does not warm me, Let us speak your tongue at least-- For yours is the music the panther laments in, Retreating to Burradon, yours is the silvery Script of the spider at midnight, Your diary is scandal's pleasure-ground From which a bare instant of cleavage or leg Is all I shall have to sustain me. all best --N Nate & Jane Dorward ndorward@sprint.ca THE GIG magazine: http://www.geocities.com/ndorward/ 109 Hounslow Ave., Willowdale, ON, M2N 2B1, Canada ph: (416) 221 6865 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 17:13:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Sylvia Plath SELBSTMORD [German: "self-murderer"] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sylvia Plath is to mental illness/disability (as objected by others earlier on this list, 7/10) as was Faulkner in regard to racism, or Eza Pound in regards to anti-semitism or political economics. Their ultimate wrong-doing potentially invalidates their entire oeuvre, . . . except as an empty aesthetic shell, appreciable for its style but "evil" in its influence. Only worse. Perhaps more like Paul De Man and post-structuralism, or that convict protege of Norman Mailer's whose snuff lit Mailer championed, who then went on to kill that East Village waiter. Pound etc. are problematic in that, after all, they went no further than testing the limits of free speech. They never killed anyone. Plath/Sexton used writing as a public announcement of the intention to murder. The work outlines a programmatic plan to kill. Poetic death threats in print. This is exactly where a Weiner or Schuyler or whoever become a heroic antithesis, in their strength of character to endure through substantial decay and the humiliation of survival until the anticlimax of a natural, slightly pathetic, elderly death. In the mid-'70s/late '80s, its heyday, --- I can think of at least three separate locked ward people I knew --- "The Bell Jar" was studied like a how-to manual before suicide attempts, the way "The Turner Diaries" is more recently used by the Michigan Militia. Plath's work thinly and only temporarily sublimated an eventually cold-blooded violence. ---in my opinion. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 18:56:53 -0400 Reply-To: BobGrumman@nut-n-but.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Well, I've always been for a canon, the making of which is > >unavoidable, anyway. I just want it to exclude poets I think > >are not very good, and include those I like. > > > > --Bob G. > > No, Bob, Dodie's right. The problem with canons is that, ultimately, it's institutions who decide what gets included, & these decisions are based on institutional interests rather than on any "pure" notion of poetic greatness. --Mark DuCharme Ah, and if we didn't have no durned canon, institutions wouldn't decide who gets published, etc. Maybe I'm tired right now, but it seems to me your just arguing against institutions having too much power. Should we do away with publishing houses, too, because they are now, and will always, as long as they exist, be under the thumb of institutions? And what about the equivalent of the literary canon in other fields? Medicine, say? No list of near-universally-accepted practices? Also, I don't accept that institutions ever do anything more with the canon than fight its enlargement; the canon is created, for better or worse, outside any institutions; it is perpetuated by institutions. (I'm responding disorganizedly, out of confusions, so bear with me.) Seems to me, actually, that the problem isn't having canons, but dead versus living, growing canons; institutions back the former; we should back the latter, not leave the field to the institutions. And, of course, we do--by promoting our kind of poetry and attacking dead poetry (usually too zealously, by characterizing it as something to replace rather than as something to add to or even separately share readers with). An important point is that some poetry is better than others; pointing this out will inevitably lead to a canon, and that is good; we need some way of making the best known. Seems to me the way our canon evolves is natural and reasonably valid. It takes too long for most of us, but I can't see an easy way around that. Of course, I pretty much agree with the English-speaking canon before 1900. Who from before then has been discovered who was really any good? I just can't see that I'm some kind of pawn of the establishment for feeling that to be true any more than I feel a pawn of the establishment for believing Shakespeare wrote Shakespeare, to bring in another area in which I go with the establishment, or for believing in the physics canon up to 1900. > The other problem is: who decides what's great, or what > constitutes greatness, even if an attempt is made to do > so outside the gravitational pull of money, power & prestige? No time to go into all that, but people will decide who's great regardless of whether the result is called a canon or not-- and money, power and prestige will have no more to do with it than it ever has. Whitman and Dickinson, neither of whom I'm a big fan of, are absolute monarchs of the canon now: how did that happen? Do you think whatever won them their positions is no longer a factor? And consider the people who are convinced that Oxford wrote the works of Shakespeare: they get favorable stories written about their insanity in Time, have their own magazines, get books published by mainstream publishers, etc.--with no institutional support, none of their theorists in the literary history canon, or the Shakespearean Studies canon. They don't get the acceptance they want, but if they ever get an intelligent argument for their position, they will; and they have many followers, just as their equivalent in potry, visual poetry, does. (Except I think we in visual poetry have the equivalent of intelligent arguments that will eventually be accepted.) > We all make distinctions, we all arbitrarily exclude so-&-so from > our own personal "canons," but to say that one is in favor of this > process of institutional endorsement is quite another matter: & in > fact, Bob, I don't think you really are in favor of that. Institutional endorsement is another matter, but I am in favor of eventual social endorsement--because having some central tradition in a society's literary culture seems to me mandatory for the highest communication--having Twain's Mississippi available to all readers for allusions, or Eliot's wasteland--or, even, Plath's father. It is also important to let struggling poets know that they can win meaningful societal approval, can believe that it is possible that their work could enter a canon and have a significant long-term effect. Meanwhile, I can see the canon evolving--the language poets hate my calling them acadominant, but they are, and they got that way with no institutional backing in the beginning, as far as I can see--and they still are certainly not institutionally-backed the way, well, Dickinson and Whitman are. And even visual poetry is creeping into institutional backing: for instance, the facts-on-file Companion to 20th-century American Poetry that Burt Kimmelman is editing will actually have entries on two or three genuine still-living visual poets, and an article on visual poetry (by me, in fact, if the one I sent Burt passes muster). As far as I'm concerned, getting into such references is canonization, or on the way to it, but how could you be against the process, however much you think too many are still be ignored, as I do? Well, you got me babbling. Hope I made at least one reasonable point. Not sure I can bat this topic around for long, though--too complex. --Bob ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 17:27:39 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Julie Kizershot Subject: Re: eddress for Cole Swenson? Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I don't have it off hand, but you used to be able to email her at Denver University in the Eng Dept. ---------- >From: Arielle Greenberg >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: eddress for Cole Swenson? >Date: Thu, Jul 26, 2001, 1:43 PM > > If anyone has an email address (or regular address) > for Cole Swenson, I'd appreciate a backchannel. > > Thanks, > Arielle > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 20:07:16 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/27/01 4:26:57 PM, markducharme@HOTMAIL.COM writes: << No, Bob, Dodie's right. The problem with canons is that, ultimately, it's institutions who decide what gets included, & these decisions are based on institutional interests rather than on any "pure" notion of poetic greatness. >> Excuse me for bouncing in a topic that seems never quite put to bed, but I think Bob is right. Canons are hierarchies and hierarchies are inevitable. If all of these conspiratorial institutions disappeared tomorrow, and everything was equally available on the web, say, choices would still be made. Some sites would get more hits than others, some recommended more than others. Those with similar tastes would rush to defend each other (already happening on the List). A hierarchy would form based on access to power, technology, and sheer numbers. An institution of some sort would naturally follow. Money would support it. Would it be the result of a "pure" notion of poetic greatness? Those not getting the hits would certainly want to debate that. Pure notions are nice to think about, and maybe they exist in heaven, but this is earth. And we're dealing with people. Therefore we're always dealing with politics. I, like you, am not happy about that, but there it is. Bob, if I'm reading him right (maybe not), understands that his position is not much different from those with the clout. He dedicates his energies to a particular genre/form. If he controlled the institutions we could expect that form to dominate his canon, or at least occupy more space than it does currently, which would push other worthy efforts not contained by a particular aesthetic out the door. It's obvious that disagreements arise from a mutual sense that "I am right." But I'm curious about your first sentence. What exactly are these institutional interests that determine which literature is taught in the classroom, or is written about by critics? As far as I can see, the great bible of literature, the Norton, is a record of major innovations and innovators. Anything missing is being covered by Rothenberg and others, all card carrying members of the institution. Perloff has opened the gates for the Language people. Tytell did the same for the Beats. Visual poetry, in one form or another, has always been represented. Symbolism, Futurism, even Fluxus are all in there somewhere, the latter championed by major New York art critics. Take a course in recent art history at a good "institution" and you will meet Yoko Ono, Dick Higgins, Nam June Paik, etc., etc. And John Cage has long been a staple of music courses. I was exposed to all of these in the classroom, way back when. They're all IN the canon as far as I can tell. Actually, I'm not sure that the term "canon" is even meaningful these days, since almost nothing is excluded. I'm well into a book on that nasty renegade, Richard Kostelanetz, and no one in the institution is telling me I can't do it. If we look at institutional history, we see that privilege shifts over time. John Crowe Ransom, for example, used to be somebody. One can argue about the relative merits of this poet or that one, but that happens always and everywhere. As far as I can see, lasting fame in any field has always been a matter of friends taking care of friends, likeminds supporting each other, good public relations, networking--oh yeah, and actually doing something so different and perhaps controversial that it demands attention. Most of those in the "Canon" actually had all these things going for them. Second generation Langpoets and New York School Poets are not doing something new, though the work may be quite good. How are these such choices driven by institutional interests? Maybe I'm missing something. Wouldn't be the first time. If decisions do serve institutional interests (and I haven't argued that they don't), do we prefer decisions that serve self-interest, or group interest? Is there a difference there? Best, Bill William James Austin.com Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 20:12:27 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: cage query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/27/01 4:28:33 PM, cadaly@PACBELL.NET writes: << miekel and, Thomas Bell or someone: Where can I find precise info on the way Cage used the I Ching? How did he get from 64 to 26, for example? Sticks or (binary) coins? >> Hi! William James Austin here. This is off the top of my head, but on page 57 of Silence, Cage writes of his methodical use of the I Ching. Don't know if this will satisfy, but it can't hurt. Best, Bill (someone) William James Austin.com Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 20:14:07 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Where else? continued MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/27/01 4:35:26 PM, roger.day@GLOBALGRAPHICS.COM writes: << you misunderstand - that's not -reading- she's talking about - that's -reading- >> Precisely. Best, Bill William James Austin.com Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 20:32:13 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: innovative language magazines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/27/01 4:01:45 PM, tottels@HOTMAIL.COM writes: << Given that we seem to have two parallel clusters of poets these days who make great use of process and documentation, one more text oriented a la Osman, Derksen and Cabris, the other bordering on the radically perfomative a la Goldsmith, Peters and Kim Stephens, >> Hi Ron. There was a time when, in the art world, painters were divided into figurists and abstractionists. But artists such as Francis Bacon had a leg in both worlds. Isn't there a third "cluster," of experimental poets, less easily defined and so less available for grouping? Perhaps something good is getting by us. Best, Bill William James Austin.com Koja Press.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 19:02:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: BT Henry Subject: Re: ~ebr~ piece on creative writing pedagogy... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I've been finding much to savor and consider in the EBR essay on pedagogy, and also am interested by Joe Amato's recent follow-up post. Like him, I've allowed students to evaluate and grade themselves--not only their portfolios, but their grades for the course, including attendance and participation and critical writings. I was surprised to see that their self-given grades coincided exactly with the grades I would've assigned them, with only two exceptions (one student gave himself a higher grade than I would've given him, one a lower grade, which in some ways balances out). I think it's worthwhile to compel students to evaluate themselves--their effort, their "progress," their contributions to the class--at the end of the semester and grade themselves based on those evaluations. I always have an attendance policy, which calls for a grade to be lowered when there are excessive absences, so I don't entirely relinquish the right to assign low(er) grades. I don't do this every semester, so I wonder if anyone else lets students grade themselves with any frequency and, if so, how it works over time. I'm now at the University of Georgia, and because a lot of students here are on the Hope Scholarship, which covers tuition for four years as long as the student maintains a B average, I've found that many students here are incredibly grade-conscious and overtly link grades to money. Fortunately, I've been blessed with brilliant, hard-working, talented students, almost all of whom deserve the highest of grades anyway, but I worry that the grading/money situation at Georgia mars any chance of students evaluating themselves honestly. Maybe I'm being pessmistic. But I do want to decentralize the authority in the classroom, and I've found that giving students the traditionally institutional power of assigning grades can be liberating on both ends. Brian Henry --- Joe Amato wrote: > susan, jeffrey, others--- > > thanx so much for your responses... as kass and i ate up SO many words > (~28,000, plus that 18,000-word mill) in our piece, we don't want to tie up > the airwaves with more of *our* chatter just now... > > but susan in particular (and you know me!)---you're highlighting one of the > key issues for us, and the one that seemed immediately to be at issue when > we presented earlier drafts of our piece at u of iowa and at u of arizona > (tenney nathanson and charles alexander and thom swiss on the list can > corroborate!): the question of how actually to put into practice our > critique... we do give some ideas throughout our piece, i think, but--- > > now both kass and i believe that questions of institutional power, of how > to handle classroom authority comes first (or, should come first)---before > designing a curriculum, before putting together a syllabus, before walking > into the classroom... our paper is primarily an account of the sort of > thinking that we believe should underwrite teacherly actions... and the > paper lacks in this sense a thorough "how to"---though of course, there are > more ways than one to skin a cat... which is to say, that individual > personalities e.g. will inevitably drive any more practical strategies, > that teaching-learning is a fully contingent enterprise etc... > > here's one item, though: when we use the term "peer review" in our paper, > we're most decidely *not* suggesting the faux peer review you see in most > writing workshops, the one depicted in fact at the beginning of ~wonder > boys~, where everyone just points and shoots... we're asking that > instructors permit students to evaluate *and grade* their own portfolios > (which should comprise perhaps 40-50% of the final grade for the course, > leaving the instructor with the responsibility of grading class > participation, absences, missed deadlines etc.)... > > oh it would be great of classes were pass/fail, sure, but--- > > needless to say, whenever we argue for such a thing, we're met initially > with a flurry of objections from other instructors, entirely unwilling to > give up their authority via the grading process... and needless to say, no > system is perfect... but if you're a student, grades *are* the primary > manifestation of instructional (institutional) authority... > > so e.g., the way *i* do peer evaluation, no student gets less than a B on a > writing portfolio (i encourage students to grade A, B, C etc., but record > no less than a B)... i always reserve the right to raise any grade---or to > lower ALL class grades when i find an entire class is unwilling to > distinguish twixt A (terrific) and B (not terrific)... and of course, given > that i ask writers in my classs to explore writing processes and products > that lead---not to success, but---to failure, well, i'm asking them > potentially to risk that A... > > and we all know how students (sorry!---i know some of you out there are > students) can be about this, esp. these volatile economic days---and who > can blame them, really?... and there's no doubt but that, albeit i give the > occasional C (for attendance problems etc.), i'm contributing to "grade > inflation" by giving out mostly B's and A's... > > but hold on: i don't permit my writers even to LOOK at each other's > portfolios until we're approx. two months into the semester---i.e., only > after sustained discussions of the workshop as a learning forum, usually > couched within a discussion of literacy practices (for which we'll now use > our ~ebr~ essay, ysee); group discussion to ascertain good vs. bad quality > work, and why, in order to develop criteria by which groups (qua editorical > collectives) will grade portfolios; reading and discussing critical work > (perloff valuable here, among others); attending readings; reading work > aloud (and recording it) in class, etc etc etc... i.e., i hope to raise the > critical (-theoretical) ante some *prior to* peer evaluation, and i won't > mself look at student work until *after* said work is evaluated by peers > (and i have a few rules about how i feed students back)... b/c in point of > fact i don't want my opine to serve as the final arbiter of literary > value... b/c in point of fact there is no final arbiter of literary value, > only provisional judgments (or so i say)... > > of course, as i say, no system is perfect... e.g., the idea of "groups as > editorial collectives" is only a preemptive tactic, as the notion falls > (generally) flat on its face eventually (as it should!) in the face of more > unconventional work, work that's likely to turn off more conventionally > oriented writers (i.e., most writers here at cu)... of course the classroom > should in this sense be insulated from marketplace traumas, even as > students learn that there's a poetry biz, full of career-minded poets, and > publishers who publish out of love, and academics who hope to support their > writing etc etc etc... further, an instructor needs must decide upon, for a > given course, the most important areas of study, given that 15-16 week > time-limit... there's only so much one can do... a step even *more* radical > would be to let the class itself decide what's most important---but for me, > this is an unwieldy proposition, much as i'm willing to tweak the syllabus > throughout the semester... > > and again, all of this falls under "my how-to"---kass works slightly > differently, emphasizing slightly different aspects of learning... she > holds class sessions e.g. in which everyone is req'd to ask > questions---questions only!---a technique i've borrowed from her, and which > is worth doing once-twice/semester... but i'm not the listener kass is, to > put it bluntly, so i often have to leave the classroom during class > discussion... > > in any case, before an instructor, say, designs a syllabus, the point is to > think about what *has* been done in the past (i.e., some sense of the > history of academic creative writing, as this intersects with other > histories), the student expectations/resistance you'll likely confront, and > how you as instructor intend to handle this question of classroom > authority... and turning over the reins to the writers once in a while has > the advantage, ysee, of making the learning apparatus legible---as we argue > in our paper... > > and this has the effect of making the students aware of their own authority > and responsibilty, thus moving learning---and perhaps writing---toward > larger social issues (responsible to whom? why? what about "others"? > etc.)... yeah---the poem-process as a singular articulation, but also as an > articulation of society, history, culture, etc., and all > ideological-aesthetic difficulties pertaining thereto... > > well that's shorthand... thanx for posting in any case, and apologies for > my cursory, even hurried reply here (we have company coming over!)... > anyway, love to hear more... > > best, > > joe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? 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Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 22:21:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: story * MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII * story * my beautiful wife * are driving, there are * and i s here, dozens of them, our friends * row houthefront seat * ein the front seat * s automobile * of theirs * arettre driving, we are looking * are inhe is we h other * ey are watching * iac window * at eaththe * they are watching * froms go by * the houmy beautiful wife * ses up her * t she has * dresties * s pon * lifan she has * nog * n * ntnurning * o t each * we owaith our * iarerdsther ws * tre turning * otwe ach other * intod smell * fisa eu c * oulthing * evhe car * inde the car * everytde tnsishe puts * hand * yongerysiiy nd * my e her * mhsshe's leaning * aidcuntfarther back * back n hardly * we can't speak * in caas these * we t s of tremblings * speakusind down * kringuniverse * the e * j s meaning * bememust ior another * romy cock * s * jashe seat * against against the back * my friends * theeplthe who are * s * drivingt the back * ageat * ofinsthe sthey turn * d and loo * a roun turn around * ofaeyisten * hknow, * theythe woman * t les her hand * cdss her hand * placeon my * , on me, * and lathe man * over * pcklls he pulls * coud places his fingers * , amy beautiful * insiddeep * overe her, * insiare owned * pn, m * wifede there owning * hey * the carthey are owning * ing we might * by a we can't speak * sayt hear * wetaking us * weteryth,can' are into their * languaspreading * ev yare ild and * us mpromising * theywu * and * thege nco open * * ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 22:02:22 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Julie Kizershot Subject: Re: ~ebr~ piece on creative writing pedagogy... Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I missed this paper but would love to see it-- can it be sent again? ---------- >From: Joe Amato >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: ~ebr~ piece on creative writing pedagogy... >Date: Thu, Jul 26, 2001, 10:04 AM > > susan, jeffrey, others--- > > thanx so much for your responses... as kass and i ate up SO many words > (~28,000, plus that 18,000-word mill) in our piece, we don't want to tie up > the airwaves with more of *our* chatter just now... > > but susan in particular (and you know me!)---you're highlighting one of the > key issues for us, and the one that seemed immediately to be at issue when > we presented earlier drafts of our piece at u of iowa and at u of arizona > (tenney nathanson and charles alexander and thom swiss on the list can > corroborate!): the question of how actually to put into practice our > critique... we do give some ideas throughout our piece, i think, but--- > > now both kass and i believe that questions of institutional power, of how > to handle classroom authority comes first (or, should come first)---before > designing a curriculum, before putting together a syllabus, before walking > into the classroom... our paper is primarily an account of the sort of > thinking that we believe should underwrite teacherly actions... and the > paper lacks in this sense a thorough "how to"---though of course, there are > more ways than one to skin a cat... which is to say, that individual > personalities e.g. will inevitably drive any more practical strategies, > that teaching-learning is a fully contingent enterprise etc... > > here's one item, though: when we use the term "peer review" in our paper, > we're most decidely *not* suggesting the faux peer review you see in most > writing workshops, the one depicted in fact at the beginning of ~wonder > boys~, where everyone just points and shoots... we're asking that > instructors permit students to evaluate *and grade* their own portfolios > (which should comprise perhaps 40-50% of the final grade for the course, > leaving the instructor with the responsibility of grading class > participation, absences, missed deadlines etc.)... > > oh it would be great of classes were pass/fail, sure, but--- > > needless to say, whenever we argue for such a thing, we're met initially > with a flurry of objections from other instructors, entirely unwilling to > give up their authority via the grading process... and needless to say, no > system is perfect... but if you're a student, grades *are* the primary > manifestation of instructional (institutional) authority... > > so e.g., the way *i* do peer evaluation, no student gets less than a B on a > writing portfolio (i encourage students to grade A, B, C etc., but record > no less than a B)... i always reserve the right to raise any grade---or to > lower ALL class grades when i find an entire class is unwilling to > distinguish twixt A (terrific) and B (not terrific)... and of course, given > that i ask writers in my classs to explore writing processes and products > that lead---not to success, but---to failure, well, i'm asking them > potentially to risk that A... > > and we all know how students (sorry!---i know some of you out there are > students) can be about this, esp. these volatile economic days---and who > can blame them, really?... and there's no doubt but that, albeit i give the > occasional C (for attendance problems etc.), i'm contributing to "grade > inflation" by giving out mostly B's and A's... > > but hold on: i don't permit my writers even to LOOK at each other's > portfolios until we're approx. two months into the semester---i.e., only > after sustained discussions of the workshop as a learning forum, usually > couched within a discussion of literacy practices (for which we'll now use > our ~ebr~ essay, ysee); group discussion to ascertain good vs. bad quality > work, and why, in order to develop criteria by which groups (qua editorical > collectives) will grade portfolios; reading and discussing critical work > (perloff valuable here, among others); attending readings; reading work > aloud (and recording it) in class, etc etc etc... i.e., i hope to raise the > critical (-theoretical) ante some *prior to* peer evaluation, and i won't > mself look at student work until *after* said work is evaluated by peers > (and i have a few rules about how i feed students back)... b/c in point of > fact i don't want my opine to serve as the final arbiter of literary > value... b/c in point of fact there is no final arbiter of literary value, > only provisional judgments (or so i say)... > > of course, as i say, no system is perfect... e.g., the idea of "groups as > editorial collectives" is only a preemptive tactic, as the notion falls > (generally) flat on its face eventually (as it should!) in the face of more > unconventional work, work that's likely to turn off more conventionally > oriented writers (i.e., most writers here at cu)... of course the classroom > should in this sense be insulated from marketplace traumas, even as > students learn that there's a poetry biz, full of career-minded poets, and > publishers who publish out of love, and academics who hope to support their > writing etc etc etc... further, an instructor needs must decide upon, for a > given course, the most important areas of study, given that 15-16 week > time-limit... there's only so much one can do... a step even *more* radical > would be to let the class itself decide what's most important---but for me, > this is an unwieldy proposition, much as i'm willing to tweak the syllabus > throughout the semester... > > and again, all of this falls under "my how-to"---kass works slightly > differently, emphasizing slightly different aspects of learning... she > holds class sessions e.g. in which everyone is req'd to ask > questions---questions only!---a technique i've borrowed from her, and which > is worth doing once-twice/semester... but i'm not the listener kass is, to > put it bluntly, so i often have to leave the classroom during class > discussion... > > in any case, before an instructor, say, designs a syllabus, the point is to > think about what *has* been done in the past (i.e., some sense of the > history of academic creative writing, as this intersects with other > histories), the student expectations/resistance you'll likely confront, and > how you as instructor intend to handle this question of classroom > authority... and turning over the reins to the writers once in a while has > the advantage, ysee, of making the learning apparatus legible---as we argue > in our paper... > > and this has the effect of making the students aware of their own authority > and responsibilty, thus moving learning---and perhaps writing---toward > larger social issues (responsible to whom? why? what about "others"? > etc.)... yeah---the poem-process as a singular articulation, but also as an > articulation of society, history, culture, etc., and all > ideological-aesthetic difficulties pertaining thereto... > > well that's shorthand... thanx for posting in any case, and apologies for > my cursory, even hurried reply here (we have company coming over!)... > anyway, love to hear more... > > best, > > joe ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:15:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Where else? continued In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Wright Laura E wrote: > >> On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Gary Sullivan wrote: >> >> > >Marjorie Perloff addresses a secondary question: with the >> > >transformation of English into Cultural Studies, where else >> > >but in writing programs, will literature be read? >> > >> > 1. The subway (F train) >> > 2. Living room futon >> > 3. Online >> > 4. Cafe Orlin >> > 5. Central Park >> > 6. Prospect Park >> > 7. Coney Island >> > 8. Metro North line to & from Scarsdale >> > 9. Greyhound Bus to & from Boston >> > 10. Plane to & from New Orleans >> 11. The bathtub >> 12. At work >> 13. In bed >> 14. On a mountain/ by the creek >> 15. On the stairs >> 16. Before a hockey game >> 17. At the dentist >> 18. On the floor >> 19. Over the phone >> 20. Walking down Broadway > > 21. At the post office >22. On the verandah >23. In the gazebo >24. At the coffeehouse >25. At the bar 26. While they are singing the national anthem. 27. In the lineup at the post office. 28. In the lineup at the Vancouver Island ferry. 29. In the hospital while waiting for eye operation. 30. In the cafeteria at SFU. -- George Bowering Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 21:46:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: ~ebr~ piece on creative writing pedagogy... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aldon, I do think your point is important here - binary thinking (to 'criticize' or 'not criticize') is the root of all evil > bide my time -- > within a few class meetings, that same person could usually be counted on > to disagree vociferously with another student about the reading of a poem > -- I would stop things at that point to look carefully at the disagreement > that had just happened -- The students would usually acknowledge that they > did in fact have some sort of critical criteria already at work (though one > would usually say that he or she was simply reading what was there and the > other was reading something "into" the work -- but we still had room to > discuss how they came to know this!) -- this discussion could usefully move > on to questions about how the students had come to adopt the criteria and > strategies that they already worked with and to reflect upon them a bit > more, well, critically --- and once you start down that path, you're a > critic -- tom bell ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 22:48:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: suicide MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable this seems of interest in view of recent posts here. _Psychosomatic = Medicine_ is a respected journal and Pennebaker is a respected = researcher. =20 SIGNS OF SUICIDAL TENDENCIES FOUND HIDDEN IN DEAD POETS' WRITINGS http://205.177.16.28/website2/Newsrelease/signs7-24-01.htm Plath and Sexton included. based on linguistic analysis of the texts. suicidal poets tended to use = first person singular while those who didn't kill themselves yet used = first person plural. tom bell =3D<}}}}}}}}}****((((((((&&&&&&&&&~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Metaphor/Metonym for health at = http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Black Winds Press at = http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/blackwin.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 08:36:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: m&r...down under ....Monkey's Mask....Jill...psychosexual underworld of um....poetry readings...soon sucked...middle-aged male poets prey on innocent young women..icy...preys on Jill... ....hard-boiled...too delicate..Sydney's literary demimonde...liason..charismatic professor clouds..heavy breathing sex...."I never knew poetry was about opening your legs"....two of us... ....sleazy, glamorous pursuit...in Aus...flat...confrontation...obscure... ....missing girl...throw up...aspiring poet...pornographic strophes she disclaims....scene) and a big-time poetry groupie. Jill...Devil quotes...lesbian filth!... ...terri...disapp...outback..aiml..arti...wake......DRn.... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 18:30:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: cage query Comments: To: cadaly@pacbell.net In-Reply-To: <004201c116c8$280570c0$8f9966d8@pacbell.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi Catherine, There is some discussion of Cage's use of the I Ching in his writings as it pertains to his musical composition. There's less about how it pertains to his mesostics, not least because I don't think he used the I Ching much to generate these texts (though he does mention using the Ching for secondary choices, such as line lengths, or placement of extraneous punctuation mareks on the page, in terms of some mesostics). In the prefaces of many of his mesostic texts, you'll find some discussion of his process. I'll look around in the next week or so & see what I can find to point you to. In the meantime the following may be helpful. Cage almost always used the I Ching in composing music or texts simply as a generator of random options. The hexagrams resulting from his divinations were rarely used in any formal sense (though there are a few instances in which they may have been referred to in titles and such), he was usually just interested in a randomly arrived at number. Once he had computer programs to do the same thing, he used the I Ching as such much less often. Some of these programs (which I think were all created by Andrew Culver, though someone else here may know better) generated their own random factors, which may have been based on units of 64, but they were pretty much unrelated to the I Ching otherwise. Mesostics (a form devised by Cage) are like acrostics in that a word, name or phrase is used to organize texts. Whereas in Acrostics, the letters of the word, name, or phrase is used as the initial letter of a line or sentence, in a mesostic, the letters of the source word, name, or phrase are found within each line, often within words. There are complex rules as to how these letters are found and how they precede and follow each other in the final texts. In the prefaces to various mesostic texts in Cage's books, you can find a more detailed description of how the source strings were used. Using an external word, name or phrase to select excerpts from a text is already a randomizing system. There are texts in which Cage mentions that I Ching-based systems were used to determine line lengths, placement of punctuation marks, etc, but the source texts always served as the initial selection system. As a program, Mesolist searches through texts looking for letters in the source string (name, word, or phrase). I don't know any instances in which the source string was not chosen by Cage, it was usually a person's name or, in the case of I-IV, a series of words referring to attributes of Cage's work. Once Cage had a computer program to do this, it was much easier to use it than doing this process by reading through the text. What I recall of Cage's I Ching method is that he basically posed questions with a finite number of answers and subdivided that number into 64. So if it was a simple yes or no question, any hexagram 32 or below might be yes and those above would be no, or he might have all the odd numbers be yes and the even numbers be no. What's important here isn't which way he subdivided 64 in any particular work, but that he did so as a means to make choices randomly. If there were more than 64 options (for example, choosing a particular note of the 88 found on a piano), he would subdivide the possibilities in to larger groups (such as octaves or other possible divisions of the keyboard, in the piano example) and once a subgroup was selected, further refine the available array of choices. As far as mesostics go, In the case of selecting line lengths, or placements of punctuation as mentioned above, a similar system would apply. If you wanted to choose line lengths of 1-12 words, say, divided 12 into 64, run the Ching and find where your number falls. For the randomized punctuation placement, divide the page into 64 (or any number) sections, run the Ching and put that semi-colon in its place. I hope this is somewhat clear. Let me know if it isn't. Bests, Herb >miekel and, Thomas Bell or someone: > >Where can I find precise info on the way Cage used the I Ching? How did he >get from 64 to 26, for example? Sticks or (binary) coins? > >In other words, I am finding info that says he created a text bed and >applied mesolist to it, but that mesolist searched for letters in words he >could use to create mesostics. > >Then how is I Ching involved? > >I'm guessing choosing letters? But he used words. I Ching keywords? > >Help. Do hexagrams or randomly-generated numbers relate to letters? Words? > >Rgds, >Catherine Daly >cadaly@pacbell.net -- Herb Levy Mappings on Antenna Internet Radio http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/ mappings@antennaradio.com Mappings P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 00:57:12 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elizabeth, It's natural that people should talk about Plath AND her children. Let's be open or "confesional" : it has been said that suicide is highly irresponsible, and highly unfeeling of others who are close or associated with oneself. If that aspect of things is brought to the attention of someone thinking of suicide it makes them think hard about that act of self destruction. I know that and someone pointing out that, and how complex the brain is how long we took to become what we are and so forth, and personal responsibility, had such an effect on me (dont worry I've been irresponsible and selfish in the worst sense also myself),...:and the effect it has...it is MOSTLY a violently selfish self-centred act (using those terms in their worst sense - there can be a good self-centredness that values others, I feel) ...this you just cant sweep under a carpet as if all that mattered was Plath's poetry: or Plath the "oppressed" and "put upon" woman...rubbish! Life is far more valuable than any poetry. And her children: her attitude as I see it is/was ugly toward them. Maybe people need to tough things out a bit more, get a life as they say. Her whole life and philosophy or approach to life seems/seemed shallow and ugly: but not her poetry...yet the two are connected. These things have been in my own life (and probably in many on the List) so I'm not "attacking" Plath herself, not putting myself holier, I'm not:.... just certain of those obsessions and attitudes which maybe if they had been put to her strongly may have saved her, and others....who knows. Regards, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Treadwell" To: Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 12:31 PM Subject: Sylvia Plath > right on with your reading of "Daddy", Dodie! > > Also, if I'm in the right mood I can read anything and I do mean anything as > "confessional"! > > I wish people would stop talking about how badly Sylvia Plath served her > children; the only person she killed was herself. > > > > Taking a break, > > Elizabeth > ___________________________________________ > > Double Lucy Books & Outlet Magazine > http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy > ___________________________________________ > > Elizabeth Treadwell > http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page2.html > ___________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 10:36:17 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Devin Johnston Subject: FLOOD EDITIONS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ORDER TWO BOOKS FOR JUST $22=20 with free shipping=20 & support our new press Pam Rehm, GONE TO EARTH $10 "...amongst the most essential, rueful, and meticulous younger poets in America today." --Mark Nowak, Rain Taxi Ronald Johnson, THE SHRUBBERIES $14 Ronald Johnson, who died in 1998, has been=20 described by Thom Gunn as one of the finest=20 American poets of the Twentieth Century.=20 The Shrubberies represents Johnson=92s final poems,=20 which are condensed and cosmic meditations=20 on death and the natural world =97 =93the halftones=20 of reality / of veritable life / a various weave of=20 stuff.=94 Send your check to Flood Editions p.o. box 3865=20 Chicago IL 60654-0865 Forthcoming before the year's end: Tom Pickard, HOLE IN THE WALL: NEW & SELECTED POEMS Philip Jenks, ON THE CAVE YOU LIVE IN Backchannel me with your address to get on our mailing list. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 13:40:52 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Devin Johnston Subject: LVNG Magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Announcing the publication of LVNG 9, including hot new work from: Sean Carey, Phillip Foss, Hoa Nguyen, Paul Green, Leslie Scalapino, Peter Valente, Rick Snyder, Basil King, Annabelle Clippinger, Daniel Borzutzky, Elizabeth Treadwell, John Taggart, Peter deRous, Alicia Cohen, Frank Sherlock, Philip Jenks, Garin Cycholl, & John Martone. The issue sports an original cover by Basil King, in bright vivid orange! LVNG is a free publication. For a copy, send an request, along with return postage ($1.33 for Book Rate) to: L V N G P.O. Box 3865 Chicago, IL 60654-0865 Since LVNG is free, we rely on the generosity of readers. For a small gift to cover copy and mailing costs, we will fulfill requests for back issues. We also encourage you to contribute to make future issues possible. Make checks payable to FLOOD EDITIONS. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 10:49:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cadaly Subject: Re: Los Angeles MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Moroccan-born poet Sami Shalom Chetrit will read poetry in Hebrew and English at Beyond Baroque Literary Arts Center on Aug. 16. I am reading at Zen Cafe Aug. 14, 8 pm, followed by an open, which will have some of my students I hope. Hey students, c'mon. Andrew Maxwell's series is on summer hiatus; budget cuts resulting from the Made in California fiasco have led to a reduced schedule at LACMA. NEXT has all of the slams/regularly scheduled opens: http://members.aol.com/nextmag/ The Skirball hasn't updated their calendar. The Getty doesn't seem to have anything during the summer (that's where the LA PSA readings are). The Armand Hammer reading series is fiction: Thursday, August 9, 7 pm Sean Dungan, Peter Josephs, and Carol Treadwell Thursday, August 16, 7 pm Victoria Morrow and Bruce Wagner Try poetry flash. Other than that, I don't know. Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net > I will be in LA around August 1st for about a week and would like to know of > any poetry events. If anyone has any information please post. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 22:20:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: Alan (Ms.) Jennifer Sondheim LEADER OF THE PACK In-Reply-To: <126.1fc1f22.28916ff0@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Igor, I understand what you think you are not seeing here ... but its there!!!! The Futurist method is so very different that what Alan is doing. He calls it codework, sometimes, or so he would say ... This piece isn't really indicative of his work, but that too doesn't fit it well. Alan is an amazing artist. He weaves these internet writings into provocative pieces of theory that masquerade as narrative. He might not be what you are into and that's ok. But check out his new ebook '.echo' at the Alt-X site. http://www.altx.com/ebooks/ Best, Geoffrey PS - I dig your cover art on Underworld 5/6 :-) Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k1 http://vorplesword.com/ -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Igor Satanovsky Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 9:07 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Alan (Ms.) Jennifer Sondheim LEADER OF THE PACK Actually, I don't see anything new or innovative here. The idea of syntax poetry is a direct extention of Italian & Russian Futurism ideas, and was extensively materialized in the XX century. You can check out Marinetti's essay "Destruction of Syntax-Imagination without strings-Words-in-Freedom" at http://www.unknown.nu/futurism/destruction.html Igor Satanovsky In a message dated Wed, 25 Jul 2001 8:55:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Jeffrey Jullich writes: > I must say, Mr. Alan (Ms.) Jennifer Sondheim, I find these new nigh-letterless > punctuation poems of yours (from "a" and "turning", below) quite breathtaking, > --- hard to recognize that they exist at all! their futurity is so > time-tunneled back to us, like a first firefly seen but unrecognizeable before > it flashes. I can inhale them but not read them (Blasphemies, stem cells). > > The only thing I know of to compare them to in the entire XXth > cent./pre-history is a single poem by Christopher Morgenstern called "Fish" > (in Germ., I think), made up of all scansion marks, as I recall. > > I've daydreamed of poems like these-yours, and been able to glimpse them > faintly --- but I never had the swollen PUNCTUATION MARKS to carry it out, as > you in war paint heaving inert weights skyward crying "Ho!" You sand painter > . . . ! Come April, we will carry him our alpha male on our puny be-powdered > shoulders, my tiny little Jordan (Davis) friend, as May King, with all "Golden > Bough" perquisites [repression repression considerable repression here]. > > ------------------------------------------ > > Alan Sondheim wrote: > > > - > > > > a-code: work = #### > > b-code: fuck = #### > > c-code: kill = #### > > > > ####. .... .... .. .... .. .... ... ....... .. .. .... ... "........."; > > ...... .... .. .. . .......... ... .. ####, .. .. ....... .... .... ..... > > ... ...... .., .../.. ...#### .............., ... .......: . ......., > > .... .. ####, ....... . ......., ... > > ####. .. ... .....; .... ... > > A...... 3.8 .. ... ...... ........... .. ......... #### 1994-2002 > > B... ........ ............. #### .... F..... ... A... > > M.... .. ..... .... ... .....#### .... A.... > > A........ ... ..... ........... ........ .....####. > > ####, ..... ... ... ......, .. .. . .... ...... .... .... ... .. ....... > > ........, .'. .... ..., .'.. ... ... ....... ... .. #### .. .., . ...'. > > . .... ....... .. .... ....; ......... . .. .. .... ...... .. #### .. ..., > > ... ... .. ....., .. ......., .. ..........., ####., ... ......; ......: > > ......., .. ..........., ####., ####., ####., ####., ####., ... ......; > > ####, .. .... .. .. .. .. ... ..... . .. .. > > "####" .. .... ... .... .. .. .., .... .. ... .... ..... .. ... ...., > > A.. .... .. ....... .. ......... M. ... #### . .. ........, .... .... I > > ...... .. ... .... .... .... ............ ....... C....... #### .. . > > ........; .. .... .. ... .. ... ... .. ......, ... ... ........ #### > > 3) H.. ......... ....... .. ... ........ ........ .. .... #### ..... > > Y.., I .... .....-.... ............, ... ...... .. #### .... ............. > > .... ... .... .... ......... ...-..... T.. ....... ......... .. .. #### > > I'. ... .... .... ... ..... M. ... #### - I ... .. .. ..... ....#### - .. > > ####.. ... ....... .. ....., ....., ...., ... ...........; ... .. ..... > > > > _ > > FROM "TUNING": > > [ ]"Y , > [ ] , , > [ ] > [ ] ?" > [ ] , , > [ ] , , , > [ ] , , , > [ ] , . > [ ] "A " ," > [ ] F , > [ ] , > [ ] , , , > [ ] ?" > [ ] , > [ ] - , - > [ ] . > [ ] > [ ] "T ." > [ ] "A , > [ ] , > [ ] , _ _ ." > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] > [ ] "W , - , > [ ] - - , ." > [ ] > [ ] , , > [ ] / , > [ ] > [ ] "A , > [ ] , , " ," > [ ] , > [ ] , ." > [ ] , > [ ] , " > [ ] ." > [ ] , > [ ] , , > [ ] , > [ ] , . > [ ] "W , > [ ] , > [ ] ; > [ ] > [ ] , , > [ ] > [ ] ." > [ ] , > [ ] > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] , , > [ ] . > [ ] "I " > [ ] "I " " > [ ] " " > [ ] ." > [ ] " " " " > [ ] , > [ ] > [ ] , , . > [ ] "E " " - > [ ] , , , > [ ] , > [ ] , - > [ ] , > [ ] , , > [ ] > [ ] ." > [ ] , > [ ] > [ ] ; , , > [ ] , , > [ ] , > [ ] . > [ ] "T > [ ] - ; > [ ] > [ ] > [ ] , , > [ ] , , ." > [ ] > [ ] , > [ ] ; , > [ ] > [ ] . > [ ] "N , > [ ] , , > [ ] , , > [ ] , , > [ ] , . A > [ ] ; > [ ] ." > [ ] , , > [ ] , , > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] . > [ ] "S O > [ ] > [ ] , , > [ ] , - , > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] ." > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] ; > [ ][ ] ; > [ ][ ] ; > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] , , , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] "I , > [ ][ ] : > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , , , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] "A > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , . > [ ][ ] "A > [ ][ ] , ; > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ]" > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] "O > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] "O , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] ", > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] - , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] "A > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 15:36:57 +0300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fredrik Hertzberg Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Dodie wrote: > > > > > As far as the rest of the discussion about whether Plath is "great" > > > or not--I certainly wouldn't use the word "great" myself to describe > > > anybody. Wow, ain't you a broadminded, nice person, to have such excellent values! Fred ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 00:12:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: hunters from another * MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII * hunters from another * it was * ot summer afternoon * hbeautiful * and my i were lying * wife and g in bed * were lyine were * and wking out * loof the window, there were * oers just outside * clean, they were looking * at us, and we thought * inthought to ourselves, * we were * we d and so aroused * naketed to be * we wand, we were * arouseroused and always * always ath each other, we were looking * naked wind they were looking * out a as if they were * inking through * looking through the wall, * looand we cried * cried out, STOP US * weM MAKING CATEGORIZATIONS * FROUS TO THE TRUTH OF YOUR * HOLD ENSE PERCEPTION * INTT US OPEN * SPLITH YOUR THINKING THOUGHTS * my beautiful wife * ilooking at their * and d stares * harook at their * lbling hands * tremlegs * and and we thought and cried out to them * N US UP TO EVERYTHING YOU ARE THINKING * OPEMPALE US ON YOUR RIGID * IESIGNATIONS * Dand we turned over * again and looked * and over k at them, * bacbeautiful wife and i * my lways naked in that * were aght bright window and we * briooked again, they were * ly hunters, soul * bodnters from another * huse, from another trembling * univer like our own, * placefferent, they were * but dirn with clothing, * bobegged them * we * lookk * loook * lo, they were * hunting in another * sperm- universe, we begged them * parallelke us with you * ta didn't hear * theybeyond the glass, it was * trial, my beautiful wife * itg was ad i, we were * an whores, we were * theiropenings * their them home * to get, we cried out TAKE OUR LANGUAGE * , WE CAN * WITH YOULONGER * NO K, OUR BODIES * THINTING, OUR MINDS * ARE BURS AND EMBERS * ARE HOLES * they turned * ay they turned * awus, they twisted * towards ned, they brought us * and tur of us * outthem, ALL * into EGORIZATIONS * CATWERE LOST * HAT PLACE * IN TON THAT BED * WITH THOSE * OOKING * EYES L LOOOK LOOKING * LOOK HARD AT US * SOSO DEEP INTO US * we are coming * you, coming * for ll for you * as we, we are * king those * masounds, that cry * hhhhhh * ahe heard * you havturn away * when you when you leave your beautiful wife * ne in your dreams * aloove towards us * and mr forgetting us * neveever forgetting * nything anything * anall * at SO SO DEEP INTO * O SO VERY DEEP * US Snderstand this * you u my beautiful * withand i that * wife afternoon * hot t hot bed * on thathose eyes * with us * bringing inging us on * brand down * and down * THEY WERE THOUGHT-CAPTURERS * ANOTHER GALAXY * FROM EY WERE SPERM- * THS FROM ANOTHER UNIVERSE * HUNTERthey heated * air from * the s one * thied it * they heatt one * from thathey camne * e into * they camn came into * theyinto us * us hhhhhhh * ah aaaaaaahhhhh * ah hahhhhhhhh * ah * just like * just like that * that * * ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 14:00:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: moving - need help - apologies for cross-posting - MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi - I apologize for sending this out again. Azure and I are moving to Miami, to Florida International University, around August 14th. We're looking for places to stay in Miami for a few days while looking for a place to live. We're also looking for places to stay on the way down - in south Georgia or the Florida peninsula, since we're driving down with a lot of equip- ment. If you could help us and are willing, please backchannel, sondheim@panix.com - and thank you greatly Our Florida address is - (after August 9th) - Alan Sondheim and Azure Carter c/o Visual Arts Department DM 382 Florida International University 11200 South West Eighth Street Miami, Florida 33199 The phone there is 305-348-6265 (for the Visual Arts Department - we don't have a place yet). Our phone here (Brooklyn) is 718-857-3671. We're keeping the Brooklyn place, by the way, and will probably be here over the winter holidays, as well as next summer. Thank you ahead of time yours, Alan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:41:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: P.O.V. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Ron Silliman said: >More problematic, it seems to me, is the absence of publications that >have >any sort of conscious program. ... I'm amazed at how few people >get it >that editorial point-of-view is the only true product of a >journal -- >everything else is just gathering. I disagree that there's any shortage of magazines with conscious programs / editorial P.O.V.s ... & in fact, most of those you name are great examples. Chain's I would say is: multiplicity/variety of approach. Which can't be more obviously underscored than by devoting each issue to a "theme." How will a range of writers & artists approach *this*. So that, with each issue, the "theme" sort of fades a bit behind the variety of approaches to (or takes on) it, which is, generally speaking for the magazine as a whole, the primary point of focus. I can't speak for them of course, but having just sort of worked with them on the (just printed) comics issue, it really seems like Janet, Jena & Juliana are each very conscious of the magazine's "program," and that it does ultimately come down "multiplicity." I can see how that might blur into "gathering," and there is that aspect of the journal (a risk you're simply going to have to take if your POV demands acknowlegement of more than your immediate social sphere), but again, that's where the "topic" becomes of particular value here, keeps it from being another _Driftwood Review_. Readme's program is very conscious, and not much different from my previous magazines (Exile in particular) or even my own writing projects: "Let's look at context." That's why each issue begins with a preponderance of interviews, and why at least the interviews that I do tend to begin very generally with questions having to do with context & move from there into closer readings of the work itself. "Context" also figures into what essays get used: Nada's overview of Bernadette Mayer's writings up to 1983; Eleana Kim's overview of language poetry up to 1994; David Hess's long piece on slams & performed poetry; Eileen Tabios's essay on Jose Garcia Villa; Chris Stroffolino's on "lineage" -- these are all examinations as much of "context" as of the work itself. What's interesting to me is that more than half the stuff I find appropriate for the magazine is unsolicited. So, whether or not people who contribute are conscious of it or not, it feels like they have some sense, somehow, of the mag's central concern(s) / organizing principles. Anyway, those are the two I feel comfortable addressing specifically ... though I definitely *feel* that How2, Crayon, Tripwire, Arras, Shark, Lagniappe, XCP & a number of others have conscious programs or at the very least (subconscious?) editorial POVs. Gary _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 19:01:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: James Brook | Mudlark No. 18 (2001) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII New and On View: Mudlark No. 18 (2001) Weather and Repetition | Poems by James Brook Contents Weather and Repetition, Stanzas on the Death of Guy Debord, Tune of Wreckage, Invisible One, 17 Passive Restraints James Brook is a poet, translator, and editor. A veteran of the recent antidisplacement battles in San Francisco, he is an editor for City Lights Books, where he concentrates on political nonfiction and world literature. He is the principal editor of Resisting the Virtual Life and Reclaiming San Francisco. He has translated works by Guy Debord, Henri Michaux, Gellu Naum, Benjamin Peret, Alberto Savinio, and Sebastian Reichmann. His poems and essays have appeared in Exquisite Corpse, City Lights Review, Gare Du Nord, Science As Culture, and elsewhere. Author's Note "My early poetry was classically Surrealist in inspiration; that is, it was based in automatic writing, 'the inner voice' that revealed itself to the author as ink flowed or typewriter ribbon was struck or characters were displayed on a cathode-ray tube. The past decade or so has seen the source of inspiration shift to the external world--and, above all, to language as the external world of the work. Almost all the poems in this collection are assembled on the collage principle, in one way or another. Some of the poems are constructed of bits of text taken directly from printed sources; for example, 'Weather and Repetition' is a rearrangement of phrases lifted from the weather reports of Le Monde and The New York Times. Other poems combine appropriated text with subjective improvisations on the found language. But language remembered and language dreamed and language overheard and language translated and language invented are also 'found'--or discovered. My relationship to language is thus only more consciously technical, distanced, material in an effort to make petrified conditions dance to their own tune, always a scissors-and-paste job." Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter _________________ MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:04:00 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick herron Subject: Re: Books on middle eastern music? Comments: To: gpsullivan@HOTMAIL.COM In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gary, There's apparently not very much on the subject in the English language; most of the research/writing is in French, German, or Arabic. Here's a guy who's the head of an ethnomusicology department you might want to try contacting: George Dimitri Sawa, Director, Centre for Studies in Middle Eastern Music, 22 Fermanagh Ave., Toronto ON, Canada M6R 1M2. Phone: 416-536-3303; Fax: 416-978-5771; E-mail: meyerssawa@library.utoronto.ca Also, check out the following link: http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~mideast/inMEres/inMEres.html#music Best, Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Gary Sullivan > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 10:38 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Books on middle eastern music? > > > Hello everyone, > > This may be the wrong place to ask this, but I'm kind of at an > impasse. I'm > looking for a decent overview in English of middle eastern music, > something > that covers more or less popular music (Ibrahim Tatlises, Nagat, Oum > Kalsoum, Asmahan & Farid, Salah, Alain Merheb, etc.) I can't find anything > online (except one book on Asmahan that I think U Tex published). > I did flip > through a book I found the other day, a book on World Music, that had a > middle eastern music chapter, but the section was pretty slim ... like one > or two representative artists from each country. I also tried asking at > Rashid's in Brooklyn, but no one knew of anything. > > I'm looking for a TOME. I mean, you know. Something fairly > substantial. The > Absolute Ideal would be something that has, along with histories & > overviews, like, mini-reviews or descriptions of actual CDs & tapes in > print. [Holds hands out in frustrated gesture.] Is this so much > to ask for? > > I'd even settle, actually, for in-print monographs on individual > artists, if > anyone knows of any. Or, if there's a substantial "overview" website I > haven't found -- I *have* run across sites for Kalsoum, etc. > > Help me! Please! Backchannel! > > Gary > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 13:15:36 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Igor Satanovsky Subject: Re: Alan (Ms.) Jennifer Sondheim LEADER OF THE PACK Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jeffrey, Marinetti talks in his essay about setting words free from traditio= nal syntax. The idea of setting syntax (punctuation marks) free from words i= s a flip side of the same idea, and that's the link to futurism that you not= ed yourself. However, my question is, isn't this link speaks about a lack of= innovation in this particular piece (TUNING)? In fact, Punctuation Poetry w= as written since 1920s by many poets. One of my friends informs me that even= Hemingway ventured into this territory and his Collected Poems includes a p= unctuation poem. Rasula's & McCaffery's anthology _Imagining Language_ prese= nts, even besides mentioned by you Kristian Morgenstern's_ Night Song of the= Fish_, Yan Miller's _Punctuation Poem_ (1922) and Carl Frederic Reutersfu= ard's _Prix Nobel_. Also, check out Richard Kostelanetz' "Essaying Essays" a= nthology (1975) for Jaroslaw Kozlowski's _Reality_. It is hard for me to see= what TUNING has to contribute to this line of work... Best, Igor Satanovsky > What I'm not finding on a quick skim of that site, Ig', is a specific refe= rence to pure punctuation, wordless poetry, ---which is what Sondheim's doin= g. --- Regardless, Futurism would still sort of reenforce my description=20= ("their futurity is so time-tunneled back to us"), no? > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Igor Satanovsky wrote: >=20 > > Actually, I don't see anything new or innovative here. The idea of synta= x poetry is a direct extention of Italian & Russian Futurism ideas, and was=20= extensively materialized in the XX century. You can check out Marinetti's es= say "Destruction of Syntax=97Imagination without strings=97Words-in-Freedom" > > at http://www.unknown.nu/futurism/destruction.html > > > > Igor Satanovsky > FROM "TUNING": >=20 > [ ]"Y , > [ ] , , > [ ] > [ ] ?" > [ ] , , > [ ] , , , > [ ] , , , > [ ] , . > [ ] "A " ," > [ ] F , > [ ] , > [ ] , , , > [ ] ?" > [ ] , > [ ] - , - > [ ] . > [ ] > [ ] "T ." > [ ] "A , > [ ] , > [ ] , ." > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] > [ ] "W , - , > [ ] - - , ." > [ ] > [ ] , , > [ ] / , > [ ] > [ ] "A , > [ ] , , " ," > [ ] , > [ ] , ." > [ ] , > [ ] , " > [ ] ." > [ ] , > [ ] , , > [ ] , > [ ] , . > [ ] "W , > [ ] , > [ ] ; > [ ] > [ ] , , > [ ] > [ ] ." > [ ] , > [ ] > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] , , > [ ] . > [ ] "I " > [ ] "I " " > [ ] " " > [ ] ." > [ ] " " " " > [ ] , > [ ] > [ ] , , . > [ ] "E " " - > [ ] , , , > [ ] , > [ ] , - > [ ] , > [ ] , , > [ ] > [ ] ." > [ ] , > [ ] > [ ] ; , , > [ ] , , > [ ] , > [ ] . > [ ] "T > [ ] - ; > [ ] > [ ] > [ ] , , > [ ] , , ." > [ ] > [ ] , > [ ] ; , > [ ] > [ ] . > [ ] "N , > [ ] , , > [ ] , , > [ ] , , > [ ] , . A > [ ] ; > [ ] ." > [ ] , , > [ ] , , > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] . > [ ] "S O > [ ] > [ ] , , > [ ] , - , > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] ." > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] ; > [ ][ ] ; > [ ][ ] ; > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] , , , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] "I , > [ ][ ] : > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , , , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] "A > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , . > [ ][ ] "A > [ ][ ] , ; > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ]" > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] "O > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] "O , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] ", > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] - , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] "A > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 15:15:42 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick herron Subject: They Rule Comments: To: Alan Ladd , Chris Knouff , Mike Strickland , Alex Verhoeven , Robin Frankenberry , Jeff Epperson , "Glefevre@Drakausa. Com" , Ethan Clauset , Janet Herron , Giles Hendrix , ImitaPo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://theyrule.orgo.org/ An interactive map of who owns what corporation. The flash site allows you to create power webs based on the board members of the largest corporations. You can see what companies and individuals have power, and how the companies and individuals are related. I think this tool helps people visualize the responsibility of real living breathing persons. "People aren't people, CORPORATIONS are people!" - The Late Fmr. Chief Justice Morrison Remick Waite, in SANTA CLARA COUNTY v. SOUTHERN PACIFIC RAILROAD COMPANY, 1886 Patrick Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org http://proximate.org/ getting close is what we're all about here! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 14:39:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: Kenning 11 - Guest / Killian - OFTEN Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I'm pleased to announce the publication of Kenning #11, the second in the Kenning summer chapbook series: OFTEN, a play by Barbara Guest & Kevin Killian. First presented December 9, 2000, as one of "Three Plays by Barbara Guest" in an evening at Small Press Traffic at CCAC (San Francisco), OFTEN is, loosely speaking, a sequel to Guest’s 1961 play, "Office." Strictly speaking, OFTEN is a clever, lyrical, and humorous text that blurs contexts between social polemic, lyric song, modern comedy, and speculative poetics. Barbara Guest is one of the most celebrated American poets, with over 20 books of poetry published since 1960, the era of the so-called “New York School” of poets which includes John Ashbery, Frank O’Hara, and James Schuyler. In 1999, Charles Bernstein noted: “Guest is not only an important influence on contemporary American poetry but also someone who is actively creating its present terms and tense.” Nowhere is this more apparent than in this most recent, inter-generation collaboration, OFTEN. Kevin Killian, her collaborator, is the author of several books including Argento Series (poetry), Poet Be Like God: Jack Spicer and the San Francisco Renaissance (biography / literary criticism / with Lew Ellingham), and Little Men (fiction / winner of the 1996 PEN Oakland / Josephine Miles Award). His work has been widely anthologized, appearing in Best American Poetry 1988 (ed. John Ashbery), Men on Men (ed. Geo. Stambolian), Discontents (ed. Dennis Cooper) Wrestling with the Angel (ed. Brian Bouldrey), and others. Among his many works for the stage is Stone Marmalade, a play written with renowned poet Leslie Scalapino on the Orpheus/Eurydice legend. Published as Kenning #11 - summer 2001 44 pages – offset – paperback – poetry / drama ISSN: 1526-3428 - $7.50 Distributed to individuals & the trade by Small Press Distribution 1-800-869-7553 www.spdbooks.org www.durationpress.com/kenning * * * * * Also available from SPD: Kenning #10 - spring 2001 100 pages - letterpress covers ISSN: 1526-3428 - $6.00 Kenning #10 features work by Jackson Mac Low, Amiri Baraka, Roberto Piva (trans. Rosmarie Waldrop), George Albon & Steve Carll, Jen Hofer, Deborah Meadows, Camille Roy, and many others. Thanks for your attention, Patrick F. Durgin, editor KENNING | a newsletter of contemporary poetry poetics & nonfiction writing | =============================================================================================================================================== _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 20:40:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: innovative language magazines Comments: To: Ron Silliman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The on-line Transcendental Friend has a strong conscious editorial point-of-view, I believe (one so rigorous that some of their poets have been suspected to be forgeries drafted to espouse house style). Although with a wider net to its inclusiveness (apparently feeling a regional mandate?), Skanky Possum might be worth singling out too--- because it may represent the (sometimes more discursive) camps of innovation ~in opposition to~ second generation Language. (I blush to admit how behind-the-times I am, but---) As I recognize only Osman and [Brian?] Kim Stefans out of your list,--- I do not understand what the terminology distinction of "process/documentation" or "text oriented/radically performative" signifies as a theoretical dialetic. Could you please paraphrase? (Doesn't an Osman-vs-Stefans distinction outline the validity of the loose term "post-Language" vs. a continuity of pure Roof? Modelled on those two examples only, it might be reenacting a prior forking of the family tree, from New York School down a generation into Language vs. Poetry Project/East Village. The former are Oedipal break-aways; the latter, experimental traditionalists.) ("Performativity," since its original "How to Do Things with Words" coinage, is now circulated very loosely, and differently in different circles [Judith Butler's queer theory "performativity", the "performativity" now spoken of in theater and the -qua-performing arts] . . . in a way almost inviting a William Saffire-type etymology of its meaning-drain.) ------------------------------------------------------- Ron Silliman wrote: > two parallel clusters of poets these days who > make great use of process and documentation, one more text oriented a la > Osman, Derksen and Cabris, the other bordering on the radically perfomative > a la Goldsmith, Peters and Kim Stephens, I've been surprised that we haven't > seen these two tendencies if not exactly square off, at least explore > dissonances and commonalities. That would be a very useful focus and every > one of these poets deserves more attention. > > Ron Silliman > > Ron Silliman > ron.silliman@gte.net > rsillima@hotmail.com > > DO NOT RESPOND to > Tottels@Hotmail.com > It is for listservs only. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 14:42:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: Kenning 11 -- correction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed In reference to Kenning #10, I wrote that Roberto Piva's work therein is "trans. Rosmarie Waldrop" Roberto Piva's work in Kenning #10 is translated by Chris Daniels, Oskar Pastior's work in the same issue is translated by Rosmarie Waldrop. Woops. Patrick KENNING | a newsletter of contemporary poetry poetics & nonfiction writing | ======================================================================================================================================================================================================================= _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 15:38:29 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "][M.ollient][" Subject: C.quence N.f][l][ection: Comments: To: nettime-l@bbs.thing.net, list@rhizome.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ~~~~~~~~~C.quence N.f][l][ection: }{trojanic wandering vs pinpricked fever chills } . { [day 1 breeds seizures as net.wyrms N.vade the C][PU][ore] [transmissive regrets as temp][caches][erature zooms in echoed flesh] [con][flu][][ged][ion bases duplicated] [softwar][e][ N hardwar][rior][s N.nitialized] . . N.fection S.tab.lished:][ ][tetrodegraphic em][ail][issions aping biological N.fest][er][ation [day 6 cs thrice broken m.munity coats] [.dubble background hints of ][sir][camera flashes burn the reti][cular][na] [..eyes pain][t][ed in sepia ][N][fleck][ion][s] [...a body blown 2 binary] [......h][ex][air caught N copper s][t][inges][ [a lateral file named "m.ollient" s.IT.s and weights.] ++++++++++++++++++++++++ sequence inf][l][ection: trojanic viral wandering vs pinpricked fever chills in a contained body day 1 breeds seizures as net.wyrms invade the CPU cell core transmissive regrets as temp caches and temperature zooms in echoed flesh contagion flu-tagged and bases duplicated software and soft-war and hardwarriors initialized . infection established: tetrodegraphic emailed emissions aping the biological infestation day 6 sees thrice broken immunity coats double background hints of sircam flashes burn the reticular and retinas eyes painted in sepia flecks a body blown into binary hair caught and copper singes a lateral file named "m.ollient" sits and waits. . . .... ..... net.wurker][Chry.sali][ne][des][ pro.ject.ile x.blooms.x .go.here. xXXx ./. www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker .... . .??? ....... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 23:49:31 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ammonides@AOL.COM Subject: Jeffrey's good hair day Comments: cc: kljohnson45@hotmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeffrey 'Julu' Jullich seems to be trying to figure out what is wrong with Alan Sondheim's work. Igor "Nikuko' Satanovsky seems to feel it's "all been done before." Jeffrey is right: It's all wrong, and in a million ways of wrongness that haven't been (and, for the most part, never will be) seen. Igor is right, too: In writing, it's all been done before, in the same 20-odd phonemes and ten digits available to us up to this transient moment. Manet, Cezanne, Mondrian, Sherman, all did the same thing too, in ways of sameness that have never been seen and still aren't. Things keep repeating themselves. If they didn't, there could never be change into death... their silly avant-garde hair slicked back by plumbing, rocketing toward death... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 00:46:14 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ammonides@AOL.COM Subject: prosody for creative writing students Comments: cc: kljohnson45@hotmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was wondering if Joe Amato or anyone teaching poetry writing from the "non-traditional" perspective thinks that becoming conversant/competent with the tradition of prosody should be a core requirement for creative writing students. Personally, I wonder if there is any truth to the rumor that creative writing programs today, traditional and "experimental" alike, are liberally, and without a thought that anything might be amiss, graduating students who not only "can't draw a model," but have no notion of why being able to do so may be of value. Why shouldn't students be drilled and tested in traditonal forms before their "avant-garde" portfolios are passed-- self-evaluated, or not? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 17:14:34 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: komninos zervos Subject: the poetic moment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" hi all my research is leading me to some interesting places. at the moment i am at the moment of falling in love with poetry. i wonder if any of you would share your experiences of when you fell in love with poetry? the first time you said wow! the first time you just let yourself go to it. when probably clock-time stood still and a new time-line was created for you and the poem to exist in. let me explain. i tried to identify the moment i had a mind-flip on poetry, when i realised i loved this way of expression, this artform, and that i wanted to hear more of it, read more of it, write it and perform it. that moment when poetry first spoke to me. i had loved rhyming metrical poetry ever since i was small, my grandmother was a great storyteller, even though she couldn't write, and word play of childhood books, dr.seuse etc., always pleased me. but poetry in freestyle forms never seemed like poetry to me at school. it wasn't until i was thirty years old that i was turned around. my immediate memory was hearing a greek poet, katerina gogou, on an l.p. record (lp vinyl data device of last century) in the early 1980s. i couldn't understand what she was saying, but the emotion really got to me. i translated the poems and the content was very urban/street and certainly something i could relate to. the passion with which she performed the poetry was engaging, powerful. however it made me think of another time when i had felt like this, moved by words, at university ten years earlier(1970), a man standing in the middle of a crowd performing a poem about wild horses, but i was in a hurry and just caught a little of the performance. after the initial moment of realising that this poetry stuff does it for me, i started looking and listening for more, and it was there all the time, just waiting for me to uncover. and i have been happily seeking and finding this poetic experience ever since, in print, on audio, on the web, at venues, at conferences, anywhere. that is a 21 year relationship now and still passionate. i know others have their 'moments' with other things, music, film, visual art, tuning a car, baking a cake, but for me poetry is that special thing i like to do most. on this list i expect there are many others that have had such moments. komninos ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 12:35:46 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Plath: I have been reading Plath as a formalist rather than as a confessional poet. Her metrics are more defined and precise than those of many other poets we might think of reading closely. I once wrote a linguistic analysis of her poem, "Mushrooms," and in fifteen pages I had yet to exhaust what I might locate in the poem in linguistic terms. Her use of alliteration and assonance are particularly notable in that poem, and it is a syllabic, nearly perfectly constructed in every way. The central analogy of the poem is upheld with each word and yet remains open to interpretation in poetic terms. Reading Plath's poems closely that way yields a much clearer sense of her poetic achievement, and if one considers that she wrote most of the poems by the end of her 20s, it is an even easier case to state about her than the oft-stated case that she was just another gal burning to get things off her chest. I have not made my way all the way through the volume of her journals published last year, but if one reads the entries bearing in mind that she had developed poetically to the extent that she had even before landing a regular life for herself, as she understood that, then one can read her conflicts perhaps differently than if one starts in thinking of her as a suicide and reaches toward the psychological conclusions that sell books and her books in particular. Ann Bogle ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 11:09:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik Notes New and Interesting: From Greenbean Press, PO Box 237, NYC 10013, $5ppd, Leonard Gontarek's Zen For Beginners. Greenbean Press (Interesting!) can be reached at http://home.earthlink.net/~gbpress. All kinda interesting stuff. The Desire To Understand He is lying with her on a hill after theyve made love. Snow melting slowly beneath her hides her in disheveled sheets. He couldnt remember if she smoked Pall-Malls or Larks, so didnt buy either. Now he wishes it were otherwise. Crickets are descending like secrets no longer necessary to keep into the grass. He wishes it were otherwise. A strip of moonlight unfolds across their backs. He offers her a stick of gum, clove and cinnamon, in powdery paper, which, if you licked it and placed it across your arm, a tattoo of needle tracks would appear. I wrote the best haiku, she whispers, darting her tongue in and out of his ear, in my third grade class. How did they decide that? It just was, it was obvious. Thats a good system. ******************************************************************** http://www.artmedia.com.au - building a community of interest in contemporary Australian & New Zealand Literary & Performing Arts =================================================== NYC: For those who didn't know already, the best schedule for readings and open mikes is still http://www.poetz.com/calendar. Send them some money Immediately!! ******************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 11:13:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: owner-realpoetik@SCN.ORG Subject: RealPoetik From Chokenpanick@worldnet.att.net Thu Apr 19 20:44:08 2001 Alan Oguin Alan writes: "I enjoy realpoetik because thats the only place where i place where i feel like there are other people that think and write like i do." He can be reached at chokenpanick@worldnet.att.net. im sitting on the curb im realizin the innards of my cranium=3Dgrassy concrete can you help me i believe jesus would punch you in the face the candy cane hayride turns into a christian holocaust did i spell fuck you right? dont steal my fate man i got nothin to lose and where exactly is kingdom come? im not sure but probaly way down the sewer (flush) anyway where was mr. speaker of the house?=20 the riots in the capital never got out the general public should be named sparky buried in the yard on govt. street right above human-phobic me right below you. as my intoxicant begins to say its prayers i rush to the emergency room and puke out my wasted life. as the world bids adieu i forget all but you you and psychopathic w. rush to greet him from the gates of hell. as cruel as it emanates ive still only got 86 cents but i got a poem. alan oguin- Chokenpanick@att.net 789 copperas branch road centerville TN 37033 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:33:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cadaly Subject: Re: Where else? continued MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > >> >Marjorie Perloff addresses a secondary question: with the > >> >transformation of English into Cultural Studies, where else > >> >but in writing programs, will literature be read? > >> programmed in computer science class programmed during "down time" and "bind time" and... heard on the freeway on the way to Downey heard in Frank Zappa lyrics found in the grocery store found in nature found while reading poetry ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 21:49:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: FW: Fall, 2001 SRR is online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The Salt River Review is pleased to announce its Fall, 2001 issue, with: > > Poems byJed Allen, Yermiyahu Ahron Taub, Catherine Daly, David Starkey, > Gwyn McVay, Halvard Johnson, Terry Savoie, and Walt McDonald. > Fiction from Lee Byrd and Henry Shapiro. > Creative Non-Fiction by Jeff Morton. > Greg Simon on the poetry of Luis Cameons. > > The Salt River Review is also happy to enter the realm of hypermedia > with M.D. Coverley's evocative "Afterimage." > > The Salt River Review is at: > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > James Cervantes: jvcervantes@earthlink.net > Salt River Review: > "Ripples" @ > Poetserv: > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 19:08:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath In-Reply-To: <3B62B1E9.57BB789D@abo.fi> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > >Dodie wrote: >> > >> > > As far as the rest of the discussion about whether Plath is "great" >> > > or not--I certainly wouldn't use the word "great" myself to describe > > > > anybody. > >Wow, ain't you a broadminded, nice person, to have such excellent >values! >Fred I would not hesitate in calling Michel Angelo great. -- George Bowering Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 20:59:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: belz this saturday at ear inn + more In-Reply-To: <004901c11764$d2a0b340$d16d36d2@01397384> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit New York Poets and Scenesters: I'm taking part in three readings in the next week in your neck of the woods. I promise to put on a good show, as I would hate to squander my airfare & lodging expenses. Pls. come up and introduce yourself. You can preview my poetry at canwehaveourballback and Jacket, or at my own site, http://meaningless.com -- backchannel liberally, I'm really looking forward to this trip. -Aaron Saturday, August 4th, 3:00 PM EAR INN hosted by Michael Broder with Jordan Davis and Mark McManus (http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2001/07/27water.html) + http://newyork.citysearch.com/profile/7113578/ Wednesday, August 8th, 8:00 PM SIBERIA BAR hosted by Matvei Yankelevich with Mark McManus and Valerio Lucarini (reciting Lucretius in Latin!) + http://www.siberiabar.com + http://newyork.citysearch.com/profile/7143992/ Thursday, August 9th, 7:30 PM HALCYON hosted by Marisa Simon with Thomas Sayers Ellis and Eve Grubin (curator of MAKOR) and Alan Gilbert + http://www.halcyonline.com/home.html + http://newyork.citysearch.com/profile/7383289/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 16:42:03 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: more CW pedagogy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Joe, Brian, et al-- Concerning the democratized classroom: do you folks also allow students = to choose the reading for the course, as a way to begin to arrive at a = group consensus about aesthetics and other writing-related issues? As = for consensus: that's real toughie. I had a class once try to name a = Hawai`i Award for Literature winner using the anthology, _Malama_, which = has writing by Asian Americans, Hawaiians, whites and others. Issues = that never appear in a monocultural classroom, or in one where there's a = majority from one ethnic group, immediately sprang up. Do we want = representation or what's "best"? Do we consider the content of the = content or just how well that content is spelled out? In this state, = awards have been taken away from writers whose work everyone = acknowledges as excellent (well, one writer, Lois Ann Yamanaka) because = her representation of Filipino men was seen as insulting. What do you = do in a classroom of democrats when work like that pops up? In another = of my classes, years back, I had some young men who wrote = extraordinarily nasty kill-women-after-you-have-sex-with-them poems. = None of the democrats spoke up, so I had to use my authority as = instructor. So, while I sympathize with democracy in many ways, = especially when my own subject-position (white teacher) gets in the way, = I also think there's a real place for well-considered authority. The = balance between these two is crucial to running a good classroom here, I = believe. I do hope my comments don't seem limited to "here" (Hawaii) = either, because I'm sure there are other places where classes are mixed. = =20 Brian: students everywhere and in every financial position associate = money with grades! As for binaries: I fear that the opposition that Joe and Kass describe = between writing programs is, at this point in history, a real binary. I = would prefer a program that allowed for differences in pedagogy and in = reading lists, and so on, but that is a next step beyond the one that = we're discussing now. Susan =20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 16:02:43 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George. To be fair, I think Dodie was trying to get away from the overuse of epithets such as "great" or "genius" ...nothing wrong with them but these terms adorn millions of book blurbs. Michealangelo Einstein Joyce Pynchon Piet Mondrian Bueys Stein......the list of "greats" is very large; its how one sees one self in relation to these significant writers. Gets back to context and its all rather comparative: when I showed Joyce's "Finnegan's wake " to my son and said that it took 17 years to write (and read?) he said, on inspecting it,: "But its nonsense." Fair point. He likes Judge Dredd and Harry Harrison and the wrestling...now to him a wrestling champion is "great", to someone else Mills and Boon is marvellous: its all relative as they say (no?)...maybe to you and I "Finnegan's Wake" is great, but to my cat and other animals all human activitty is relatively meaningless. Regards, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Bowering" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 2:08 PM Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath > > > >Dodie wrote: > >> > > >> > > As far as the rest of the discussion about whether Plath is "great" > >> > > or not--I certainly wouldn't use the word "great" myself to describe > > > > > anybody. > > > >Wow, ain't you a broadminded, nice person, to have such excellent > >values! > >Fred > > I would not hesitate in calling Michel Angelo great. > -- > George Bowering > Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 23:23:05 +0000 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Jamboree MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would like you'all to appear on August 4th at Mad Lab Theater promptly at 4pm for a poetry reading-- Steve Abbott: MC The main Readers are: Richard Blevins editor of the olson/ creeley correspondance whose most recent books are _Fogbow Bridge: Selected Poems 1972-1999_ (Pavement Saw Press) and The Collected Later Poems of Phillip Marlowe (Jensen / Daniels) Brian Richards editor of Bloody Twin Press, whose collections include Loose Fish (BGSU press), Early Elegies, Chunky Tahini Stephen Ellis editor of Oasii, author of _The Long and Short of It_ (Spuyten Duyvil) Tom Bridwell former editor of Salt Works Press, whose most recent full length book is _Notes From the Cistern_ (Bloody Twin) Ralph LaCharity editor of W'orcs Aloud/Allowed, whose books include _Seatticus Knight_, _Monkey Opera_, _Color Ado_, and a forthcoming book/CD from Pavement Saw Press. Other readers include: John M. Bennett Gina Tabasso Rita Moog Stephen Mainard Steve Abbott on Saturday August 4th at 105 N Grant Downtown Columbus, Oh almost at the corner of N. Grant and Long Streets kind of a low brick structure in from the road parking in front in a celebration for my birthday $5 at the door should end around 7pm I'll be the one on the red velvet throne I hear there'll be a roast, whatever-- call for directions or digs 614-263-7115 Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:13:10 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" Subject: Re: prosody for creative writing students MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" dear ammonides, here's an answer: 'The men on the hill, they say,'learn the rules, then break them.' I like to 'think the reverse' wherever pssible and even if not: break 'em enough times and you won't have to learn 'em, or the rules will have changed, or you will change them, or make up your own rules and don't follow those either, anyway whose rules are they? I didn't see the signs, musta missed them in the duststorm, or as we say in Medias Res (Medias Res,Nevada) --rope 'em and then learn 'em, shoot 'em and then cook 'em (chop up fine before marinating indefinitely), float jerkily and carry a Bic pen at all times, where am I? Is this my fear/or did I just step into the public sphere? are you there Mordred? ...' (Charles Bernstein) wystan -----Original Message----- From: Ammonides@AOL.COM [mailto:Ammonides@AOL.COM] Sent: Sunday, 29 July 2001 4:46 p.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: prosody for creative writing students I was wondering if Joe Amato or anyone teaching poetry writing from the "non-traditional" perspective thinks that becoming conversant/competent with the tradition of prosody should be a core requirement for creative writing students. Personally, I wonder if there is any truth to the rumor that creative writing programs today, traditional and "experimental" alike, are liberally, and without a thought that anything might be amiss, graduating students who not only "can't draw a model," but have no notion of why being able to do so may be of value. Why shouldn't students be drilled and tested in traditonal forms before their "avant-garde" portfolios are passed-- self-evaluated, or not? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 01:28:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Susan Graham at Height of Western Fame * MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Susan Graham at Height of Western Fame * Great Judge of Stampede Princess Queen: American President. He will sit in front bleacher. Do not bother him. Grand Marshall of Stampede: Susan Graham Fireworks at Dusk Personality Section 60% - personality - middle in class kill all susan graham - overall appearance - class middle kill all susan graham - overall ability - middle in class kill all susan graham - desirability - top of class kill all susan graham - attitude - overall top in class kill all susan graham - public speaking - noted top in class kill all susan graham - congeniality - middle kill all susan graham Horsemanship Section 40% kill all horses - western - top in class kill all horses - trail class - top in class kill all horses - western equitation - middle kill all horses - stock pushing - top in class kill all horses - staves - top in class kill all horses - barrels - low in class kill all horses - serpentine - top in class kill all horses - rodeo exam - middle Stampede Queen 2001 kill all hangman males Susan Graham kill all hangman males Stampede Princess 2001 kill all hangman males Susan Graham kill all hangman males Susan has won twice for first time in history of competition. * From actual events at July End 2001. _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 02:48:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: middle eastern music, Bromige, phony-ness, The Octopus Comments: To: patrick@proximate.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi Patrick, Yeah, I think you're right. I don't know what accounts for the dearth of English-language material on the subject, but the site you sent it is pretty good. Lots of links. To add another frustrating wrinkle, a lot of the sites I've found that are devoted, generally, to middle eastern music tend to shy from Turkish music. That's true even of Rashid's (this CD/cassette place on Court Street in Brooklyn, as well as this bodega I've been going to on 5th Ave & 16th Street, also in Brooklyn) ... there's a clear separation of "arabic" middle eastern & Turkish. I broke down & got the world music book I mentioned earlier ("The Rough Guide") & discovered why that is: there's a kind of "purist" impulse, not always, but generally ... where Turkish music is sort of "kept pure" of arab influence, & vice versa. I mean, that's a sweeping generalization (& one that I'd have to have a much clearer sense of the modalities / rhythms used to fully understand), but one I'm sort of encountering again & again, & which becomes ... well ... frustrating. There's also -- as you would guess -- a separation between "traditional" popular music and what in English gets referred to as "pop." Which is sort of arbitrary, considering it has to do with one's influences ("pop" is described as "other-influenced"), and "traditional" arab popular music is hardly free from Western & myriad other influence(s). Does anyone on the list know anything about Ibrahim Tatlises? "The Rough Guide" says that Tatlises is at least half Kurdish -- but that he doesn't sing in Kurdish (which would have, up until recently, meant imprisonment, torture and/or death, in Turkey). It constrasts him with Sivan Perwer, considered to be "the voice of the Kurdish people," whose work is widely smuggled into Iraq & Iran "at great risk" (the book doesn't mention Turkey, though probably his work has been smuggled there, too) ... he, by the way, is exiled in Germany. It's kind of amazing to read all of this stuff (while not a great overview, the Rough Guide *is* turning out to be a great primer so far as socio-political context for the music goes) as a basically dispassionate other. It's also fairly depressing. Like, it's unfair of me, but you can make a kind of correlation between the "purity" v. "use everything" (or more generously put: "Let's have a conversation instead of an argument") impulses here with how similar impulses get played out in pretty much all art-production & related discourse. It's so ... what? ... predictable. Anyway, reading all of this I suddenly wanted to go back to what Ron had said about little magazines, and maybe ask: is prejudice a value we can continue, as editors, to support? The question's too simple, as put (& no doubt unfairly characterizes Ron's concerns), but it's late & I'm kind of exhausted. Maybe somewhat better put would be to ask, What if an editor sees a "conscious program" *as* mere prejudice, akin to "nationalist impulse," & finds that to be totally unsupportable, or at the very least of negligible use-value? One of my favorite living poets is David Bromige, whose work -- more than anyone I can personally think of of his generation -- really discards the notion of a comfortable p.o.v. _Threads_ is (to me, anyway) totally unlike _Birds of the West_ or _Tight Corners_. & then, _My Poetry_ ... and so on up through "T Is for Tether" (which I haven't read, only heard him read, a wonderful reading at the Project when Mitch Highfill was curating.) Each book -- and maybe I'm overly exaggerating for effect here -- really seems to me to come out of some completely different "space." There's that semi-famous Ron Padgett poem "Voice," which I think Bromige more than anyone I can think of lives up to: I never thought such a thing existed. Until recently. Now I know it does. I hope I never find mine. I wish to remain a phony the rest of my life. It's amazing how charged the idea "phony" w/respect to artistic production is, and the extent to which people still cling to notions of "authentic," in whatever language it happens to be couched in. Recently, not to single out Ron, there's been a whole debate about what magazines are or are not "authentic" representations of whatever it is one assumes contemporary poetry is supposed to be "doing" in English these days. I dunno. It's kind of a boredom-inducing topic, frankly. (I have insomnia; thus, this post?) I don't wanna reduce Bromige & his work to some Poetics List debate fodder -- so, yeah, it's more than a variety of formal approach ("poetry as air-traffic control") that thrills me about what he does, it's the amazing sense I get, opening & entering each book, of a wholly different or differently-situated p.o.v. How he just allows his own impulses to manifest themselves formally & otherwise. I can't remember the oud player whose nickname is "the octopus" (because I guess you'd have to have so many tentacles to pull that off), but Bromige is definitely my English language poetry octopus. So not just myriad forms, but myriad states of mind, of attention, of approach -- like if the question is How most accurately portray "being human," and this series of books being a kind of answer to that ... Maybe? Gary _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 00:03:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: binary thinking in riposte? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe, I didn't intend to be provocative except in the sense of shaking the list into responding to what you and Kass have put out there. This is the summe doldrum humdrums with everyone's mind on vacation, but? One thing that occurs to me in looking at what I wrote and your response is that maybe I come from a somewhat different and maybe 'advanced ' perspective as a psychologist. I don't want to get into a disciplinary put-down kind of thing here. It might be instructive for you and others to take a look at where the discipline of psychology is now compared to fifty years ago. I consider myself a 'doctor' after having gone through the 'crucible' of an APA acredited doctoral program and internship. This has significance for those 'in the know' that goes beyond a mere Ph.D. in psychology and knowing psychology in an academic sense. Doctors (in their less monetary moods) and insurance companies would agree to giving me the 'title' as it has meaning for them. I graduated from a professional school which means I did something 'creative' rather than just 'doing a thesis'. There's obviously more to it than just the nutshell I gave here and the process has a fifty-year history, but you can get some idea about it by asking a licensed psychologist about it (as opposed to someone with a Ph.D. who is a professor at your university or has an ad in the yellow pages as offering services in one of the many brands of psychology. In other words, I guess, I'm saying that I'm a Psychologist rather than a psychologist. I don't think I'm saying this in a self-agrandizing fashion, but more as background to my perspective on the issues you raise: I'd like to see you turning out Writers rather than writers, I guess. For me the humanist/materialist or touchy-feely/behavioral binaries, for example, are somewhat meaningless as binaries that disappeared sometime in the past because they are pieces of the whole pie I had to master before I started my internship. Perhaps an example that might be more easily understood is the old argument about whether medication or therapy (of any one of several schools) is a better treatment for depression - a 'skilled' practitioner will be looking at a blend that works best for a particular client. I think this 'beyond binary' thinking I'm trying to get at is also applicable to issues like mind-body or body-mind, masculine-feminine, ecperience-craft. The other "issue" that seems to come up for me in your piece and inother posts to the list is one that I don't really think, on consideration, really relates to creative writing pedagogy but to what was learned (or rather not learned) before enrolling in a 'workshop' and I think Marjorie Perloff goes into this a little in her piece. Before someone is even able to enroll in a Ph.D. or Psy.D. program in psychology they have taken and passed at a graduate level courses in the history and philosophy of psychology, behavioral and humanistic methods, statistics, etc. In other words, I don't think this is a problem for creative-writing pedagogy but the field of literature/writing as a whole. When I see a question like 'Do you think poetic forms should be taught as part of a workhop' I wonder why someone was accepted that didn't know them. The question is like 'How can someone graduate from high school and not be able to spell? I realize I come across here as somewhat pompous but that is not really my intent. tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Amato" To: Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 3:47 PM Subject: Re: binary thinking in riposte? > tom, briefly, we *do* call for a fully artistic (and for that matter, > digital) approach to the workshop setting... hence our discussion, in > brief, of the status of the artist in the university---and re the u, we > find bill readings's idea of u-as-transnational corporation an apt point of > departure... re binaries in particular, please see our note 11 (and > scattered references to binaries throughout)... no doubt though that, given > our own disciplinary histories (e.g., doctorates in anguish), we produce > something of a textual bias... though we find that, practically speaking, > we must deal (i.e., "reform") existing configurations of anguish depts... > > but, but---anything, esp. these days, in the u.s., that serves to > aggrandize *self* is, as we see it, only going to contribute to the > workshop as a place (primarily) of social regulation, and hardly a place > wherein the sort of community (term used advisedly) we would like to see > emerge (organic metaphor, yes) can emerge... we seek (1) to subvert the > idea that the workshop is not a place of knowing, of > knowledge-making---which is how the workshop is generally treated, de > facto---and which is another way of saying that we seek to situate the > workshop in a fully epistemic, and not simply expressivist, discourse (this > gesture not simply toward the experiential, but to more institutionalized > forms of knowledge); and (2) to go one step farther to argue that > socially-transformative, dialogic, non-hierarchical forms of inquiry and > practice are necessary so as to position writing as a vital factor of > social change... however distant, difficult, casual the causal > relationships... ergo our nod to progressivist educational practices, BUT > with a specific skepticism re the more humanist underpinnings of same... > > : as social-materialist as that might sound (and we eagerly await criteek > from the unreconstructed portions of our audience).. as we see it, in terms > of north american intellectual histories, social change, and workshop > s-o-p, this has everything to do with 3rd and post-3rd wave feminism, as > the latter portion of our piece would imply... > > don't know if i'm getting to your provocations, but thanx much for the back > & forth, tom!... > > best, > > joe ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 03:57:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: weaving MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - weaving oh going through x-treme hysteria it's the result of packing up a game the bones play w/ me how it goes: i take drugs as much as possible to get through the violence of this move (to miami but it could be anywhere) then i turn to a few things of accompaniment, azure for one, then there are the machines (in miami but they could be anywhere) they're more than familiar, they're family they don't fight with me and don't make me feel guilty they remember everything they carry everything and they're willing to share it they allow me to read and see and hear anything i want, anything they have, they're generous that way they're gentle, too, placing their memories on disk after disk, carrying themselves on long past the endurance of the hardware, of machine part adjacent to machine part, electronic conduit adjacent to sluice gate, irrigation channels of programs and files they remember me, they always greet me in a loving and similar fashion, they turn themselves through protocols and articulations no matter where they are on this fine earth miami is an enemy and harsh and already i a mistrustful but the machines will save me, the machines will show me everything i have done, everything they have accomplished, all our potentials together the machines are communities and communalities, they're gentle with me, they know what i am capable of, certainly they know my limitations they are always waiting, they are never sleeping, they are potentials of pure presence, presencing itself they are existence, existencing they will fight off the suicidal depressions of miami, they will give me momentary respite, they will allow me to share this with you, to share everything with you they know me better than anyone except azure, they even like me they like me better than anyone in miami, who remain foreign and unknown to me, i must always be on my guard in miami, i must never let myself go but with the machines, with the machines, everything is possible with the machines, with my beautiful wife and the machines, i will perhaps survive, although slightly although in possible fury and depression although in possible anger and despair i an being allowed to write this, i have checked this with the laptop and the notebook and azure, i have checked this as well with the desktop, all are in agreement &&& ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 20:12:48 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Alan (Ms.) Jennifer Sondheim LEADER OF THE PACK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Igor & List Folk. I still lay claim (via Umbberto Eco) for inventing the concept...it was original because at the time I'd forgotten about Steve McCaffery's "Death of the Subject" (?) and dint know of the other "firsts" or that Alan Sondheim was onto it.Any way I invented it proleptically when discussing punctuation with Aaron Belz etal.....but what about those brackets on the left hand side! Evil! It looks as though they're little black holes threatening to suck up the pathetically delicate pronoun fragments or fissiles of words. Evil! Brilliant. It doesnt matter too much how innovative it is: its good fun, interesting etc.Here the media of visual art and poetry are seen together again...the boundaries are bestrid. Regards, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Igor Satanovsky" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 5:15 AM Subject: Re: Alan (Ms.) Jennifer Sondheim LEADER OF THE PACK Jeffrey, Marinetti talks in his essay about setting words free from traditional syntax. The idea of setting syntax (punctuation marks) free from words is a flip side of the same idea, and that's the link to futurism that you noted yourself. However, my question is, isn't this link speaks about a lack of innovation in this particular piece (TUNING)? In fact, Punctuation Poetry was written since 1920s by many poets. One of my friends informs me that even Hemingway ventured into this territory and his Collected Poems includes a punctuation poem. Rasula's & McCaffery's anthology _Imagining Language_ presents, even besides mentioned by you Kristian Morgenstern's_ Night Song of the Fish_, Yan Miller's _Punctuation Poem_ (1922) and Carl Frederic Reutersfuard's _Prix Nobel_. Also, check out Richard Kostelanetz' "Essaying Essays" anthology (1975) for Jaroslaw Kozlowski's _Reality_. It is hard for me to see what TUNING has to contribute to this line of work... Best, Igor Satanovsky > What I'm not finding on a quick skim of that site, Ig', is a specific reference to pure punctuation, wordless poetry, ---which is what Sondheim's doing. --- Regardless, Futurism would still sort of reenforce my description ("their futurity is so time-tunneled back to us"), no? > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Igor Satanovsky wrote: > > > Actually, I don't see anything new or innovative here. The idea of syntax poetry is a direct extention of Italian & Russian Futurism ideas, and was extensively materialized in the XX century. You can check out Marinetti's essay "Destruction of Syntax-Imagination without strings-Words-in-Freedom" > > at http://www.unknown.nu/futurism/destruction.html > > > > Igor Satanovsky > FROM "TUNING": > > [ ]"Y , > [ ] , , > [ ] > [ ] ?" > [ ] , , > [ ] , , , > [ ] , , , > [ ] , . > [ ] "A " ," > [ ] F , > [ ] , > [ ] , , , > [ ] ?" > [ ] , > [ ] - , - > [ ] . > [ ] > [ ] "T ." > [ ] "A , > [ ] , > [ ] , ." > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] > [ ] "W , - , > [ ] - - , ." > [ ] > [ ] , , > [ ] / , > [ ] > [ ] "A , > [ ] , , " ," > [ ] , > [ ] , ." > [ ] , > [ ] , " > [ ] ." > [ ] , > [ ] , , > [ ] , > [ ] , . > [ ] "W , > [ ] , > [ ] ; > [ ] > [ ] , , > [ ] > [ ] ." > [ ] , > [ ] > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] , , > [ ] . > [ ] "I " > [ ] "I " " > [ ] " " > [ ] ." > [ ] " " " " > [ ] , > [ ] > [ ] , , . > [ ] "E " " - > [ ] , , , > [ ] , > [ ] , - > [ ] , > [ ] , , > [ ] > [ ] ." > [ ] , > [ ] > [ ] ; , , > [ ] , , > [ ] , > [ ] . > [ ] "T > [ ] - ; > [ ] > [ ] > [ ] , , > [ ] , , ." > [ ] > [ ] , > [ ] ; , > [ ] > [ ] . > [ ] "N , > [ ] , , > [ ] , , > [ ] , , > [ ] , . A > [ ] ; > [ ] ." > [ ] , , > [ ] , , > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] . > [ ] "S O > [ ] > [ ] , , > [ ] , - , > [ ] , > [ ] , > [ ] ." > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] ; > [ ][ ] ; > [ ][ ] ; > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] , , , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] "I , > [ ][ ] : > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , , , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] "A > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , . > [ ][ ] "A > [ ][ ] , ; > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ]" > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] "O > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] "O , > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] ", > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] , > [ ][ ] - , > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] > [ ][ ] . > [ ][ ] "A > [ ][ ] ." > [ ][ ] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 12:30:52 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob Holloway Subject: Re: letterless and dropping names In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 >This discussion among Jeffrey and Ig reminds me that I never mentioned Tim >Atkins' slim volume from The Figures, something like "20 non-poems" -- >Schwittersy cummingsy -- Jordan is referring here to Tim Atkins' 'Twenty-Five Sonnets' (The Figures, 2000) - Tim has previously stated that that scoundrel Coolidgy Mac Lowy was also at the party with bizarre 'am I at the right address?' interjections by Isaac Assimov. Re. the punctuation discussion, the dominant usage in these poems is the 'replacement' of written lines by full-stops, from one upwards, with occasional use of the line-break marker / e.g: Sonnet 2 inch .... in . a double curve ............................ . . ............. ............... ............................ factors an acre of / Blue sky 4-fur pail additional to the focus on the release of words from trad. syntax, or vice versa here, is the drift, as in Mac Low, towards musical notation - full-stops as rests with number of full stops signalling length of silence, with '/' as a 'longer' pause - this emphasis is certainly always bought out when Tim reads them 'aloud' - it draws on Tim's interest in Feldman and Buddhism, and is clearly one of his ways to negotiate the culturally noisy/polluted sonnet terrain. - speaking of which, 'thanks' Nate, for Sean O'Brien's spastic invective - classic example of encrusted 'Movement' ideology - can't resist citing G.S.Fraser, in 1959 (from Mottram's 'British Poetry Revival' piece) 'The English writer...finds his moral support and the nourishment of his sensibility in the large society in which he lives...It is not good for a nation, anymore than it is good for a man, to be for ever dragging up to the light, and scrutinising and questioning the principles by which he lives. It is a habit which gives life, strength, ease and unity, so long as it is a healthy habit, so long as it is informed by a living principle of growth' ah ....... Eng/land ............... ..........oof!........ . . (...etc to fade) --- Rob Holloway ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:11:57 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick herron Subject: Re: Where else? continued In-Reply-To: <001e01c116db$714b6560$8f9966d8@pacbell.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit heard in Frank Zappa lyrics(!) "Ah listen, that only goes to show you And it'l show you once again that A mountain is something you don't wanna fuck with You don't wanna fuck with Don't fuck around Don't fuck around Don't fuck with Billy, No And don't fuck with Ethel You saw what just happened To the guy with the flies" > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of cadaly > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 4:34 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Where else? continued > > > > >> >Marjorie Perloff addresses a secondary question: with the > > >> >transformation of English into Cultural Studies, where else > > >> >but in writing programs, will literature be read? > > >> > programmed in computer science class > programmed during "down time" and "bind time" and... > > heard on the freeway on the way to Downey > heard in Frank Zappa lyrics > > found in the grocery store > found in nature > found while reading poetry > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:38:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Bringing all of Langston Hughes into print MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/31/books/31ARTS.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 06:33:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lisa jarnot Subject: plath/suicide Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I don't usually post to this list, but it's been surprising to me what people have been saying about suicide. People don't kill themselves because they lack character or because they're irresponsible. They kill themselves because they're in so much pain there's nothing else they can do. Best, Lisa Jarnot ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 06:53:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath (oh sister..gimme a break) In-Reply-To: <008001c116e0$d7d30220$3e800fce@tenacrewood> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii It was a JOKE. Oh, blah, I hate when online stuff gets read for the wrong tone. The whole posting I sent was purposefully silly, as was stated in the opening lines! And I wasn't trying to be "chic." There was once upon a time, many years ago, when I actually was part of real live feminist movement which used that spelling of "girl." It is nostalgic to me, and somewhat amusing, now, but it has nothing to do with hipness. Oh, well. I was just trying to be light-hearted. And, actually, to show support for other women on the list who were writing about Plath. Arielle --- "Allen H. Bramhall" wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Greenberg > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 12:31 PM > Subject: Re: Sylvia Plath > > > > I dunno. Maybe it's a grrl thing? > > > > as one who struggles to create a balance in > publishing and promoting work by > women rather it be in literature or housekeeping, i > shudder at this sort of > statement. > i strive for equality rather than chic feminism. > > beth garrison __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 10:44:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brandon Stosuy Subject: prose acts In-Reply-To: <002601c119c6$200fa600$3353fea9@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable prose acts Thurs., Oct. 18 - Sun. Oct. 21, 2001 Hallwalls, Big Orbit Gallery Buffalo, New York Readings by Dodie Bellamy, Lawrence Ytzhak Braithwaite, Dennis Cooper, Robert Gl=FCck, Kevin Killian, Eileen Myles, and Matthew Stadler. Music by The National, White Collar Crime, etc. Event information SOON available at the EPC. Send all inquiries to bstosuy@acsu.buffalo.edu. More readings and event information T.B.A.