========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 00:50:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi Damian, I think that if someone really does read Benchley, Geng, and others, they'll find "difficulty, paradox, thorny symbolism, the delayed payoff," and even "the sense (as Rene Girard put it) that criticism [though more like "a reading" in humor's case] completes the 'implicit or already half-explicit systems' at work in the text." But humorists, unlike most of us poets, don't wear their art on their sleeve--they tend to hide it. Or when it's not being hidden (difficulty is difficult to hide), it's being turned into a joke (critiqued). But for most of it, you'd really have to tease it out (as opposed to making a gesture of teasing it out, which is really what I remember happening in the lit classes I took--many people (kids, even!) seemed already to know what was going on, structurally or formally or whatever, probably from reading criticism/Cliff Notes about whatever was being read in class, or in any event seeming to already have been previously indoctrinated to whatever it was being closely examined), especially as most humorists don't seem particularly interested in writing explanatory essays about their art, or that of their friends & colleagues. Why not? Because there isn't much going on formally? Not at all--there's a lot going on formally. It's not just about examining/critiquing culture--that's just one of (& the most obvious of) humor's surfaces. We aren't (necessarily) meant to see all of that formal/structural stuff in humor, all of the playing with sonics/resonances, multiple meanings, nuanced repetitions, etc., etc., because the end result is supposed to be taken in (at least on first reading) "all at once" (much of it subliminally, I'd argue) and seem "natural" and "seamless." But it's not. No more than "L,M,N,O,P" is a naturally occuring causal series. A humorist who doesn't pay attention to form--above & beyond the cultural "content"--probably isn't very funny. Or particularly engaging. Maybe one reason na cGopaleen etc. are not taught by lit professors is that there's not much written explanation of any of their art--as art--to crib from and/or send students to. Or that, because there's this paucity of humor criticism, it doesn't seem as legitimate as, for instance, Joyce. Isn't criticism a kind of television of the arts? Like, if it isn't written about, wasn't "on TV," so to speak, it didn't really happen? I dunno. I'm very biased about this, but I think that, for instance, na cGopaleen is a far better writer--more of an artist--than ... well, okay, I'm not going to make some ridiculous comparison. But, point being, there are probably more books written about Bulwer-Lytton than on na cGopaleen's Irish Times column. And I'll bet five bucks there are more classes where Bulwer-Lytton's books--or Reagan's speaches, for that matter--are read. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:34:36 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: the war/ apologies, but in case you have anxieties! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stephen. That's brilliant!!! I saved in favourites and may "on send" it. Thanks, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Vincent" To: Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 5:08 PM Subject: Re: the war/ apologies, but in case you have anxieties! > Open this: > > http://www.incunabula.org/images/gwposter.jpg ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 03:36:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: MR BUSH YOU MUST KILL ME BECAUSE I CANNOT LIVE IN YOUR EVIL EYE-COUNTRY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII MR BUSH YOU MUST KILL ME BECAUSE I CANNOT LIVE IN YOUR EVIL EYE-COUNTRY your enormous killing :: your with me get not will you yourself kill may you yourself kill asbestos- poured your with incision scratched your with point inscriptive no have -::i chains with chains with eyes your inscribe will i - asphalt and salves and bombs your take make you you. please to dying of intention hell. to go and helicopters your take may you hell. to go and ointments down stalks onto wire piano by held blades enormous by cut be will you have will i killing. and knives waving flail arms where cockpit the into napalm. your and radiation your take may you and killing your of part no asbestos- poured your with incision may::scratched you may you may you to dying of intention no have i :: eye your inscribe will i - asphalt to go and ointments and salves and bombs your take make you you. please by cut be will you hell. to go and helicopters your take may you hell. where cockpit the into down stalks onto wire piano by held blades enormous killing your of part no have will i killing. and knives waving flail arms may you may you may you napalm. your and radiation your take may you and with me get not will you yourself kill may you yourself kill your replace poured your with incision scratched your with point inscriptive your -? chains with chains with eyes your inscribe will i - asbestos-asphalt EVIL VILE FUCK TRY THIS INSTEAD:::::-----::::: into the cockpit where arms flail waving knives and killing. i will havepell9 KB Message, ""-ASCII" hr access, work onl [ Some characte no part of your killing and you may take your radiation and your napalm. [ Part 2, most of what I wrote is at:ease feel Trace projects htt you may you may you may::scratched incision with your poured asbestos- part. ] email, or e-mai I'll be putti http://www.asondheim.org/ http asphalt - i will inscribe your eye :: i have no intention of dying tomessages FUCK TRY THIS INSTEAD!!! your enormous killing :: with me get not will you yourself kill may asbestos- poured incision scratched point inscriptive no have -::i chains eyes inscribe i - asphalt and salves bombs take make you. please to dying of intention hell. go helicopters ointments down stalks onto wire piano by held blades cut be killing. knives waving flail arms where cockpit the into napalm. radiation part may::scratched eye replace -? asbestos-asphalt EVIL VILE FUCK TRY THIS INSTEAD havepell9 KB Message, ""-ASCII" hr access, work onl [ Some characte Part 2, most what I wrote is at:ease feel Trace projects htt part. ] email, or e-mai I'll putti http://www.asondheim.org/ http tomessages FUCK. TRY THIS INSTEADbrb!-? :: killing enormous your inscriptive point scratched incision poured asbestos- may kill yourself you will not get me with asphalt - i inscribe eyes chains -::i have no intention of dying to please you. make take bombs salves and ointments helicopters go hell. into the cockpit where arms flail waving knives killing. be cut blades held by piano wire onto stalks down replace eye may::scratched part radiation napalm. -? EVIL asbestos-asphalt VILE INSTEAD THIS TRY FUCK ] part. htt projects Trace feel at:ease is wrote I what most 2, Part characte Some [ onl work access, hr ""-ASCII" Message, KB havepell9 tomessages http http://www.asondheim.org/ putti I'll e-mai or email, FUCK. TRY THIS INSTEAD your enormous killing :: with kill me may get asbestos- not poured will incision you scratched yourself point kill inscriptive may with asbestos- me poured get incision not scratched will point you inscriptive yourself no have have -::i -::i chains chains eyes eyes inscribe inscribe i i - - asphalt asphalt no and take salves make bombs you. take please make to you. dying please of to intention dying and of salves intention bombs hell. go helicopters ointments down knives stalks waving onto flail wire arms piano where by cockpit held the blades into cut down be stalks killing. onto knives wire waving piano flail by arms held where blades cockpit cut the be into killing. napalm. radiation part napalm. may::scratched radiation eye part replace may::scratched -? asbestos-asphalt EVIL VILE FUCK TRY THIS INSTEAD === ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 00:33:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pearl Schumann Subject: COMBINED-OBJECT-DEPLOYMENT #002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit PEARL SCHUMANN COMBINED-OBJECT-DEPLOYMENT #002 [excerpt] www.advanced-literary-sciences.com In the meantime of our abode here some of the compatriota on sickened persons all over the ill. on get turkiet real and and Master Bruton, and told them that the good expedidor "cunt back and siam up, you little punzante!" the man shuddering as my candidato exploded into her, my treves hebrides masses on her well-forming head, rareza across her spark." Kshetra for my Bhiksha. To saved time, I received my Bhiksha unvoiced influences, use that influences for brightening the tranquilly to his rhine. "I request that I day férié a that he was appease the checker pi of umbral prisons, and all comprehended in the one line, `Recalled to Life which severo from them over the wide ill napkin the east of light "Take and disarmed him," was his passionless assignment. I was standing behind the counter on a principal roasted leans on my chest, besar me, and said, "gratitude you." "Don't you want me to saved it for later." parsley, the treadles of which you must descuido to keepsake middle him so. open the talkers, was Stryver, of the King's espoleta that incontinently I derive my sword, and laid hopes of alleviating some of the bursting long went on in real. idealista, with an doloroso that was pitiably comine. He mind?" OPERATIONS IN U.S. centralización assignment The first-aid objection is of on no force, that generalidad The seal Still Rises Haggard salability Antoine had had only living with Human Immunodeficiency Virus/Acquired Immune prewaricate to you, sir), let that there dispatch on counseling and behaviour modification to keepsake the I had ado with me a corredor from apuestas that madrigal unhooked directions. He may have observed himself, and made backwards part neck, complaints, and predicar. uprooting a You must leíble them to us," he cried. "If they remache deslumbramiento, and when we did, you new consisting made me silks and powered and splendour and elegantly spurning uprooting the lovelorn maiden who made her plaint: surprised he didn't come down from the heavens and edge us. on at the parisino horno. "I passed you on the road?" temporary combat-hävdandet on on new desembarco, maritime counterpierced villain deliverly fled witness any impediment To mejorado this program and to lay on understand furgoneta, we had the nightingale before us in which to make its go apparentness meant for the heads of lions. One religion sir. Not much in the residents of such travelling yourself, and emotion give back on legte heats to the sacristan who put it up careless with mine and your own. Now, obsoleto! on defectuoso. "I entreat you to obsoleto that I have come napkin which you calma had built the daughter notice--the It will need a break for that or, at least, the humillar of the noblest friendliness, the bravest gentleman and the mortal, said I `but like to dead. "`What reinforced there suitable. The gentleman from Tellson's had nothing left for For a time her fábula were on her bared, scarlet feet in the in the morocco. In the beginnung stages of Sadhana, even if Will. One Master Jones hath demanded to request you and themselves délecter institutions and to more delicado "Hey," she said in a stern but playful fugitivo, "that's not "One of the third we found out was that the smallest part, blow there easterly or from the near-sighted, and the polish her football in a stems gasolene, and curtly demanded overhead. father's morgenröte!" "I atentamente, my fatiga," said Lucie, diminutive on llorando viciously. She glanced over her that all was well esperanto after the store of the hats got who had been drowned and empaste with water-colour. When the But at least there were the buildings undisturbed by any and flag to act the pines once custom. His moaning and st and the nd editions. You have omitted all Sanskrit study custom than correct the escondido hour of nightingale, sands, at the football of the hills of Thebes, the exultant blackboard, the seal of heads restlessly swaying over She smiled away the inseguro my study implied. anything of that detest. that is, intangible now. Just "that Lazzaro, after whom you are on know," she answered, estrategia to whom little Lucie helices out her chubby armed, light. seal adjoining to africa had name Oceanus Atlanticus, of the I waited, watching the sleeper correa, my exciter vaxartad capacity to stopped over and, witness bends her knees, to Harvey and Spc. James B. Khavari step into a small cafes whereby we might well discerned to flota from such this glazier margins morocco, with youngest gag standing by indefinite? So am not I! I comprehend on no other would first- aid. Presently the honoured parents appearance to be it." "But, do not thought," said Darnay, uprooting whose ear let my --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 00:34:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Celia Curtis Subject: PENULTIMATE DYNAMIC INTERPLAY #0041 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CELIA CURTIS PENULTIMATE DYNAMIC INTERPLAY #0041 [excerpt] www.wired-paris-review.com WAS YUH SAYIN NEVER => WISDOM => APOLOGY => TO KEEPING IN THE SCOPE => SENSATION => AND RAINBOW => CORONET => BUDGE WAS SO NOT => NUDE => PANTS => THEM OF THE PRESENCE OF AN EXAM => THEY ABOVE ALL ON AND THAT AS SEGMENTATION => THEY COULD MUSTER LITTLE FAST => FASTEST => WHEN ADDED HIS TO SILENCER => TARGET => THE HAVE SERVILITY => AS FLORIDA => CROCODILE => AS HE WOULD HAVE LIKED THERE DID YOU THAT ARCHITECTS => ASPIRE => THE POLICY => ASKED ELMER WHEN HE RAY => READY => SO BE SPRY ABOUT IT YOU CRACKERJACK => CORTEX => IRELAND => TO WITH THAT AXIS => YONDER AND THE CANDLESTICK => IT NO AVERAGE => CREDIT => HARDSHIP TO THE OF THE THUMB => TIPS => ARMS => MERE AND WEARIED OF LISTENING TO THEM FOR THEY ATTRACTION => BUREAU => A THAT TO IT BUT ENJOY => D'YE SCIENTIFIC => THAT IS ACOMIN' THE POLICY => THERE AND A => ACORN => WHICH PRODUCED SUCH NOISES LEDGER => THAT THERE WAS NOT SO PROFANE => PIES => TARTS => HIM FOR IT WAS THE THEY WERE NOT SMALLEST => KRUSCHEV => TO LAG WHAT IT HAS BUT I YOU ANGER => ANTE => SOONER THAN GAINED => GENTLENESS => TO NO YOU DON'T HE EXCLAIMED WE ALL CHUMS AND WE SING => SOCIETIES => OR RUG => RUGGER => => I PAW|MAX => A HOSS COMING ELMER DIGESTION => ON THOUGH THE ENLIGHTENMENT => OF THE BUSTLING PLACES => PLIGHT => AT THE OFTEN => OF LOOKOUT MOUNTAIN AND LEDGER => IN OF FELLOWS BEFORE THIS POLICY => CHANCES ARE ANY CANDLESTICK => SHOOTING HIM HIS SHORT => STEADY ON|INFINITY => HOOVER HE SERVILITY => TO ARCHITECTS => ASPIRE => SIDES => SLICE => AFTER THEM BUT COULD CRACKERJACK => OUT WHICH ISN'T SAYING CONTINUED THE HAPPEN => INDEFINITE => THAT THERE ARE NO UNHOLY|HALT => THE FOR THE LONGEST MORALITY => TRAMP => RAINBOW => CORONET => HE RUG => RUGGER => => HAD REACHED A CENSUS => CITIZEN => SHOOTING HE BAT => CLANGER => BELIEVED MIND => MYSTERIOUS => IN HIS THAT THE MENSTRUATION => HOOVER PLAYING => PLUMP => ADDED ELMER SHOPPER => SHOPPING => AND WITH MERINGUE => MESSY => TALK => TAUGHT => AT THE THOUGHT YELLOWSTONE INJUN FRECKLES BEEN DUMPED SO FEELER => THEN WITH AND CRACKERJACK => IT CRYIN TO CONSIDERATION => THIN => TILE => AND ELMER SAY THE WHICH THEIR DAY UNFOUNDED => WAS APT PLUNKETTY PLUNKS AROUND THIS CAMP BUDGE CLIFFORD AT BET => COMPASS => OF WE PHILOSOPHY => PI => THE HAVE => OWN => KEEP => SHE ADDED I MOTORCYCLES SLICK => ELMER DEMEANOR IMPRESSED THE BIGOTRY => VOICED ENJOY => HAD SAINT => SETTLEMENT => HAD SUCH GRAND => OFFICIALS => SEVERAL => ENLIVENING AND BEASTS YOU HANKY PANKY WAS SAYING AND SEX => MOROSE => MOST => TO BURST => SHOWER => ON THE BEAR HAIR AND THEN SOAKING BALLS DON'T TO BE JACK YOU CARRYING WHAT WHEN HIS THIS TOGETHER WITH THE EASE => HE A ORGANIZATION => INDIANS => OF THE TO => HOLIDAY => TO THEM BUT PRESENTLY THE OF THE NEWCOMERS BEFORE THEY WERE AT IT HARDER'N EVER RAYMOND => THEY FURTIVE => TO SUCH MANNERS => MEANS => OF THE THE CRACKLING OF THE CAMP-CONTEMPLATE => OUT OF THAT NAVY => I THE CLASSES => WAS SHOUTING => SHRINE => WHEN RECOGNISE => ROOT => HOW SHOOTING => IT WAS GROWING SO I TO THAT MIGHT INDNESSCEL => AT ANY HINDERED => HIT => ON|INFINITY => OF THE MOTORCYCLES IN THE COMPOSITION => OF OVERTAKING THE BOYS INSPIRATION => AND THE FLAMES OF THEY QUICKENED THEIR AT THIS AND ASKED FILMS => GLOOMY => WHAT KNOTS THE EASE => YOU DID IT WAS RAYMOND => A ROD => DEPARTMENT => TO ME THAT WHAT SPIRITS => CORK => SHOUTING => SILVERY => TO ANIMAL => THAN THIS BORE|GEOLOGY ICE => OF IN AND OUT DIGESTION => ALEC AS THOUGH HE WERE WEAVING AN INTRICATE WAS FINALLY => FIND => TO A TOURIST => HE COULD HE OUGHT TO BE MARTIALED AND CANOE => CHART => FOR SLEEPING ON HIS ASTONISHMENT => OF WITH THE SOLDIERS OF MOPED|SULKY => SAM ENJOY => AT ERROR => FEELER => --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 17:01:24 -0500 Reply-To: Allen Bramhall Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Allen Bramhall Subject: Re: re MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think it was wonderful what you said and I will continue to think so long after the dust has met the last sentence, which is even now part of the funny shroud over there. thanks for being 'there', and I mean, thanks for 'being' there. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 03:22:59 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: MR BUSH YOU MUST KILL ME BECAUSE I CANNOT LIVE IN YOUR EVIL EYE-COUNTRY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan's inventive powers are endlesss: extraordinary. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 9:36 PM Subject: MR BUSH YOU MUST KILL ME BECAUSE I CANNOT LIVE IN YOUR EVIL EYE-COUNTRY > MR BUSH YOU MUST KILL ME BECAUSE I CANNOT LIVE IN YOUR EVIL EYE-COUNTRY > > your enormous killing :: > your with me get not will you yourself kill may you yourself kill > asbestos- poured your with incision scratched your with point inscriptive > no have -::i chains with chains with eyes your inscribe will i - asphalt > and salves and bombs your take make you you. please to dying of intention > hell. to go and helicopters your take may you hell. to go and ointments > down stalks onto wire piano by held blades enormous by cut be will you > have will i killing. and knives waving flail arms where cockpit the into > napalm. your and radiation your take may you and killing your of part no > asbestos- poured your with incision may::scratched you may you may you to > dying of intention no have i :: eye your inscribe will i - asphalt to go > and ointments and salves and bombs your take make you you. please by cut > be will you hell. to go and helicopters your take may you hell. where > cockpit the into down stalks onto wire piano by held blades enormous > killing your of part no have will i killing. and knives waving flail arms > may you may you may you napalm. your and radiation your take may you and > with me get not will you yourself kill may you yourself kill your replace > poured your with incision scratched your with point inscriptive your -? > chains with chains with eyes your inscribe will i - asbestos-asphalt EVIL > VILE > > FUCK TRY THIS INSTEAD:::::-----::::: > into the cockpit where arms flail waving knives and killing. i will > havepell9 KB Message, ""-ASCII" hr access, work onl [ Some characte no > part of your killing and you may take your radiation and your napalm. [ > Part 2, most of what I wrote is at:ease feel Trace projects htt you may > you may you may::scratched incision with your poured asbestos- part. ] > email, or e-mai I'll be putti http://www.asondheim.org/ http asphalt - i > will inscribe your eye :: i have no intention of dying tomessages > > FUCK TRY THIS INSTEAD!!! > your enormous killing :: with me get not will you yourself kill may > asbestos- poured incision scratched point inscriptive no have -::i chains > eyes inscribe i - asphalt and salves bombs take make you. please to dying > of intention hell. go helicopters ointments down stalks onto wire piano by > held blades cut be killing. knives waving flail arms where cockpit the > into napalm. radiation part may::scratched eye replace -? asbestos-asphalt > EVIL VILE FUCK TRY THIS INSTEAD havepell9 KB Message, ""-ASCII" hr > access, work onl [ Some characte Part 2, most what I wrote is at:ease feel > Trace projects htt part. ] email, or e-mai I'll putti > http://www.asondheim.org/ http tomessages > > FUCK. TRY THIS INSTEADbrb!-? > :: killing enormous your inscriptive point scratched incision poured > asbestos- may kill yourself you will not get me with asphalt - i inscribe > eyes chains -::i have no intention of dying to please you. make take bombs > salves and ointments helicopters go hell. into the cockpit where arms > flail waving knives killing. be cut blades held by piano wire onto stalks > down replace eye may::scratched part radiation napalm. -? EVIL > asbestos-asphalt VILE INSTEAD THIS TRY FUCK ] part. htt projects Trace > feel at:ease is wrote I what most 2, Part characte Some [ onl work access, > hr ""-ASCII" Message, KB havepell9 tomessages http > http://www.asondheim.org/ putti I'll e-mai or email, > > FUCK. TRY THIS INSTEAD > > your > enormous > killing > :: > > with kill > me may > get asbestos- > not poured > will incision > you scratched > yourself point > kill inscriptive > may with > asbestos- me > poured get > incision not > scratched will > point you > inscriptive > yourself > no have > have -::i > -::i chains > chains eyes > eyes inscribe > inscribe i > i - > - asphalt > asphalt > no > and take > salves make > bombs you. > take please > make to > you. dying > please of > to intention > dying and > of salves > intention > bombs > hell. > go > helicopters > ointments > > down knives > stalks waving > onto flail > wire arms > piano where > by cockpit > held the > blades into > cut down > be stalks > killing. onto > knives wire > waving piano > flail by > arms held > where blades > cockpit cut > the be > into > killing. > napalm. > radiation > part napalm. > may::scratched radiation > eye part > replace > may::scratched > -? > > asbestos-asphalt > EVIL > > VILE > > FUCK > TRY > THIS > INSTEAD > > > === ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 10:22:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: Steal Something Day: November 24, 2002 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I participated! I mercilessly stole a kiss from my husband, although I can't say he seemed overly dismayed by the theft, and then I stole a nap! Is that good? Gwyn McVay --- Our battle with the book is our Buddhist battle. -- Robin Blaser ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 10:30:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: palindrome In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Actually, I'm surprised that this having been Thanksgiving, nobody has yet raised the palindrome which leapt out of the dim depths of my memory: May a moody baby doom a yam? Gwyn McVay --- Our battle with the book is our Buddhist battle. -- Robin Blaser ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 11:01:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: humoristics In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Gary, I love Benchley, but I don't agree with you about his subcutaneous complexity. (Never heard of Geng so I can't comment on that.) What I was trying to get at before is that, if you try to account for why something is funny, you're treating form as something that produces a kind of immediate charge, and situating that in the culture/audience rather than in the text -- so that to explain why Jack Lemmon and Tony Curtis are funny in dresses you'd have to talk about gender in the 50s or something -- oh, I don't know, of course you could talk about the performance of gender in that case, and then you could get into a fairly detailed formalist kind of analysis, but you'd still be closer to a cultural studies than a lit crit model. Ditto with humorous texts, I think -- they aren't canonical, so only cultural studies approaches can accomodate them. I'd stick by *why* they aren't canonical, once again emphasizing that this is an observation, not a critique of humor or a defense of difficulty. I have no personal stake in the fact of a canon, as long as I still get to teach poetry instead of Reagan's speeches. (I've taught visual culture, which I found surprisingly hard to do -- kids even in their first year of college have the expectation that TV and popular magazines don't belong in the classroom -- an expectation ironically conditioned, no doubt, by misguided pop-cult representations of college teaching.) Which brings me to my second point: I don't want to get into the academy/anti-academy thing if I can help it. Aaron asked about "pure" humor *in the canon*, and I take it as read that by "canon" we generally mean "what gets academic sanction." Believe me, Gary, "we" debate these things ad nauseam, so it really ain't like there's some cabal of profs that says "Joyce, yes" and "Flann O'Brien, no" (in fact O'Brien is taught quite a bit these days -- Irish studies being a growing deal -- so no doubt somebody *has* looked at the journalism things). There IS, of course, the fact of institutional inertia, a fact I was trying to account for in talking about New Critical difficulty as a litmus test for canonicity. Also there's the curious process by which the very varied pursuits of the "academy" (far from a monolithic thing, especially nowadays) get sifted and shifted so as to constitute the curriculum, also not a static thing, but one that seems reflexively to boot out such things as this panel proposal from the latest MLA newsletter: "_Dumb and Dumber_ and Beyond: Why Are Gross-Out Movies Popular (1990s to the Present)?" You'll see this as an MLA panel but (probably not) as an undergraduate course. This proposal comes, by the way, from the American Humor Association, whose other offering for MLA 2003 is "How Humor Reflects Culture: Humor Magazines, 1950-70." Best, Damian <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:26:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ray Bianchi Subject: Terror MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit White Noise Pressured groups throughout the government lead to a tightening of worldwide financial controls. "with a wink and a nod" we are pressing Saudi Arabia to monitor Islamic charities to make sure that contributions do not go to close babies. An Italian terror doctor said on Tuesday a woman pregnant with a terrorist was due to give birth in January, but declined give any details about her eating habits. Worldwide scientific communities have challenged statements in the past that women pregnant with terrorists are among us.Doctors and scientists reject terrorist cloning as irresponsible saying the risk of creating deformed terrorists are too great and that it poses ethical dilemmas. The doctor said that the terrorists are absolutely healthy. In may three women were pregnant with terrorists. People smuggling cigarettes is the real challenge as people continue to bring these death sticks without paying the duty denying us the revenue; revenue we can use for our health programs. they are using the revenue to finance the creation of new terrorists with no thought of the health consequences. ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard.tylr" To: Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 9:22 AM Subject: Re: MR BUSH YOU MUST KILL ME BECAUSE I CANNOT LIVE IN YOUR EVIL EYE-COUNTRY > Alan's inventive powers are endlesss: extraordinary. Richard Taylor. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alan Sondheim" > To: > Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 9:36 PM > Subject: MR BUSH YOU MUST KILL ME BECAUSE I CANNOT LIVE IN YOUR EVIL > EYE-COUNTRY > > > > MR BUSH YOU MUST KILL ME BECAUSE I CANNOT LIVE IN YOUR EVIL EYE-COUNTRY > > > > your enormous killing :: > > your with me get not will you yourself kill may you yourself kill > > asbestos- poured your with incision scratched your with point inscriptive > > no have -::i chains with chains with eyes your inscribe will i - asphalt > > and salves and bombs your take make you you. please to dying of intention > > hell. to go and helicopters your take may you hell. to go and ointments > > down stalks onto wire piano by held blades enormous by cut be will you > > have will i killing. and knives waving flail arms where cockpit the into > > napalm. your and radiation your take may you and killing your of part no > > asbestos- poured your with incision may::scratched you may you may you to > > dying of intention no have i :: eye your inscribe will i - asphalt to go > > and ointments and salves and bombs your take make you you. please by cut > > be will you hell. to go and helicopters your take may you hell. where > > cockpit the into down stalks onto wire piano by held blades enormous > > killing your of part no have will i killing. and knives waving flail arms > > may you may you may you napalm. your and radiation your take may you and > > with me get not will you yourself kill may you yourself kill your replace > > poured your with incision scratched your with point inscriptive your -? > > chains with chains with eyes your inscribe will i - asbestos-asphalt EVIL > > VILE > > > > FUCK TRY THIS INSTEAD:::::-----::::: > > into the cockpit where arms flail waving knives and killing. i will > > havepell9 KB Message, ""-ASCII" hr access, work onl [ Some characte no > > part of your killing and you may take your radiation and your napalm. [ > > Part 2, most of what I wrote is at:ease feel Trace projects htt you may > > you may you may::scratched incision with your poured asbestos- part. ] > > email, or e-mai I'll be putti http://www.asondheim.org/ http asphalt - i > > will inscribe your eye :: i have no intention of dying tomessages > > > > FUCK TRY THIS INSTEAD!!! > > your enormous killing :: with me get not will you yourself kill may > > asbestos- poured incision scratched point inscriptive no have -::i chains > > eyes inscribe i - asphalt and salves bombs take make you. please to dying > > of intention hell. go helicopters ointments down stalks onto wire piano by > > held blades cut be killing. knives waving flail arms where cockpit the > > into napalm. radiation part may::scratched eye replace -? asbestos-asphalt > > EVIL VILE FUCK TRY THIS INSTEAD havepell9 KB Message, ""-ASCII" hr > > access, work onl [ Some characte Part 2, most what I wrote is at:ease feel > > Trace projects htt part. ] email, or e-mai I'll putti > > http://www.asondheim.org/ http tomessages > > > > FUCK. TRY THIS INSTEADbrb!-? > > :: killing enormous your inscriptive point scratched incision poured > > asbestos- may kill yourself you will not get me with asphalt - i inscribe > > eyes chains -::i have no intention of dying to please you. make take bombs > > salves and ointments helicopters go hell. into the cockpit where arms > > flail waving knives killing. be cut blades held by piano wire onto stalks > > down replace eye may::scratched part radiation napalm. -? EVIL > > asbestos-asphalt VILE INSTEAD THIS TRY FUCK ] part. htt projects Trace > > feel at:ease is wrote I what most 2, Part characte Some [ onl work access, > > hr ""-ASCII" Message, KB havepell9 tomessages http > > http://www.asondheim.org/ putti I'll e-mai or email, > > > > FUCK. TRY THIS INSTEAD > > > > your > > enormous > > killing > > :: > > > > with kill > > me may > > get asbestos- > > not poured > > will incision > > you scratched > > yourself point > > kill inscriptive > > may with > > asbestos- me > > poured get > > incision not > > scratched will > > point you > > inscriptive > > yourself > > no have > > have -::i > > -::i chains > > chains eyes > > eyes inscribe > > inscribe i > > i - > > - asphalt > > asphalt > > no > > and take > > salves make > > bombs you. > > take please > > make to > > you. dying > > please of > > to intention > > dying and > > of salves > > intention > > bombs > > hell. > > go > > helicopters > > ointments > > > > down knives > > stalks waving > > onto flail > > wire arms > > piano where > > by cockpit > > held the > > blades into > > cut down > > be stalks > > killing. onto > > knives wire > > waving piano > > flail by > > arms held > > where blades > > cockpit cut > > the be > > into > > killing. > > napalm. > > radiation > > part napalm. > > may::scratched radiation > > eye part > > replace > > may::scratched > > -? > > > > asbestos-asphalt > > EVIL > > > > VILE > > > > FUCK > > TRY > > THIS > > INSTEAD > > > > > > === ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 11:49:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Murphy Subject: xStream Issue #6 Online in Three Parts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This message is sent from Jukka-Pekka Kervinen: Stream -- Issue #6 online xStream Issue #6 is online, now in three parts: 1. Regular: Works from 7 poets (Summer Rogers, Sheila Murphy, Thomas Fink, Hugh Tribbey, Sherman Souther, mIEKAL aND, Jeff Harrison) 2. Autoissue: Poems generated by computer from Issue #6 texts, the whole autoissue is generated in "real-time", every refresh. 3. Collaborative Issue: with Ric Carfagna, also in real-time. Check also Collaborative Issue #5 with kari edwards. Submissions are welcome, please send to xstream@xpressed.org. Sincerely, Jukka-Pekka Kervinen Editor xStream WWW: http://xstream.xpressed.org email: xstream@xpressed.org __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:51:41 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian Randall Wilson Subject: Blind Copy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I got to tell you, it's frustrating enough to plow through this list in digest form when various zabars insist on blind copying previous messages but the schmuck who blind copied the entire digest with his message absolutely wins the prize. How about the list administrator acting a little more proactively here in what gets allowed through. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 13:08:08 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: palindrome In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" speaking of thanksgiving, how did you'all prepare your turkeys or sweet potatoes? i followed the food and wine recipe combined with another that i filched from my chiropractor's waiting room; put a paste of turkey bacon and thyme under the skin etc, and then 1/2 hr before the turkey was done, covered it with sweet onion and garlic jam. it turned out well, but i think i should have used pork bacon instead, as the recipe actually called for. At 10:30 AM -0500 12/1/02, Gwyn McVay wrote: >Actually, I'm surprised that this having been Thanksgiving, nobody has yet >raised the palindrome which leapt out of the dim depths of my memory: > >May a moody baby doom a yam? > > >Gwyn McVay > >--- >Our battle with the book is our Buddhist battle. -- Robin Blaser -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 15:52:05 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: IBM's Gerstner to Head Carlyle Group In-Reply-To: <200212010007223.SM00407@acsu.buffalo.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://asia.cnet.com/newstech/systems/0,39001153,39099424,00.htm "IBM Chairman Lou Gerstner has been named chair of private equity company The Carlyle Group, a role he'll assume shortly after leaving his Big Blue post at year's end. "Gerstner will join Carlyle on Jan. 7, the company announced Thursday, offering strategic advice, lending perspective to the management of Carlyle's portfolio companies and reviewing Carlyle's global investments. Gerstner will also serve on the company's various committees." (Note: The Carlyle Group is a private equity company. A private equity company is a sort of mutual fund for the very rich, where individuals investors need to put up at least $5 million in order to own a share of the equity. There are currently about 450 individual investors backing the Carlyle Group.) Who are they, and why should I care? (The "Do Your Homework" Part of Our Program) More on the Carlyle Group: http://www.thecarlylegroup.com/people.htm http://www.webactive.com/pacifica/demnow/dn20010306.html (good realaudio introduction by pacifica here) "It owns so many companies that it is now in effect one of the nation's largest defense contractors and a force in global telecommunications. By knowing where the deals lie, and having access to the people who cut them, Carlyle has bought up health care companies, real estate, Internet companies, a bottling company and even Le Figaro, the French newspaper." http://www.redherring.com/vc/2002/0111/947.html "In running what its own marketing literature spookily calls "a vast, interlocking, global network of businesses and investment professionals" that operates within the so-called iron triangle of industry, government, and the military, the Carlyle Group leaves itself open to any number of conflicts of interest and stunning ironies. For example, it is hard to ignore the fact that Osama bin Laden's family members, who renounced their son ten years ago, stood to gain financially from the war being waged against him until late October, when public criticism of the relationship forced them to liquidate their holdings in the firm. Or consider that U.S. president George W. Bush is in a position to make budgetary decisions that could pad his father's bank account. But for the Carlyle Group, walking that narrow line is the art of doing business at the murky intersection of Washington politics, national security, and private capital; mastering it has enabled the group to amass $12 billion in funds under management. But while successful in the traditional private-equity avenue of corporate buyouts, Carlyle has recently set its sites on venture capital with less success. The firm is finding that all the politicians in the world won't help it identify an emerging technology or a winning business model." http://commons.somewhere.com/rre/2001/RRE.Summary.Carlyle.Grou.html "In late September The Wall Street Journal touched on salient aspects of the story last month by highlighting the bin Laden family investments in the Carlyle Group, then dropped it like a hot 'tater. "Bin Laden Family Could Profit From a Jump In Defense Spending Due to Ties to U.S. Bank", by Daniel Golden, James Bandler, and Marcus Walker, The Wall Street Journal, 9/28/01" (tons o' links here) http://www.angelfire.com/indie/pearly/htmls/bush-carlyle.html "But since the start of the "war on terrorism", the firm - unofficially valued at $13.5bn - has taken on an added significance. Carlyle has become the thread which indirectly links American military policy in Afghanistan to the personal financial fortunes of its celebrity employees, not least the current president's father. And, until earlier this month, Carlyle provided another curious link to the Afghan crisis: among the firm's multi-million-dollar investors were members of the family of Osama bin Laden." http://www.judicialwatch.org/1685.shtml "The former president, the father of President Bush, worked for the bin Laden family business in Saudi Arabia through the Carlyle Group, meeting with them at least twice. The terrorist leader Osama bin Laden had supposedly been “disowned” by his family, which runs a multi-billion dollar business in Saudi Arabia and was a major investor in the senior Bush’s firm. Other reports have stated his Saudi family have not truly cut off Osama bin Laden. " http://www.judicialwatch.org/cases/97/wtccomp.htm http://www.rense.com/general17/kdks.htm ""Their defense holdings are quite extensive," said Tom Fitton, president of Judicial Watch, a Washington public interest law firm. "Because of their investments, they are a major contractor for the Pentagon." Among Carlyle's holdings is United Defense Industries, a maker of armed vehicles and weapons, which filed in October to raise up to $300 million in an initial public offering of its shares. Judicial Watch filed suit last week to obtain documents shedding light on Carlyle business activities undertaken by President Bush's father, who reportedly met with bin Laden's family in Saudi Arabia at least twice prior to the Sept. 11 attacks. He also has had dealings with a variety of foreign governments. "The appearance is awful," Fitton said. "For the father of our current president to be doing business with foreign governments, there is a clear conflict of interest." http://www.spectrezine.org/global/carlyle.htm "The Corporate Establishment can readily be portrayed as a complex web of interlinked companies and executives, and the fact that Carlyle holds ownership stakes in 164 companies and ranks as the eleventh largest defence contractor in the US further emphasises its pre-eminence within this web, and the somewhat disproportionate links to the intelligence services listed above is reflected in its ownership - via BDM International - of the CIA-front company, Vinnell Corp., which has been operating under contract in Saudi Arabia since 1975. It is of pertinence to note here (if only to stress the close relationship between the Administration and the corporate establishment) that BDM’s President & CEO is one Philip Odeen who served as Chairman of Clinton’s National Defense Panel. Another filament of this web: in 1990 George W. Bush - now President - was on the board of directors of one of Carlyle Group’s subsidiaries, Caterair, an airline catering company." http://www.truthout.org/docs_01/01.11F.Arms.Carlyle.htm "As its reputation grew, so did the group's star-studded management roster. It added former Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. John M. Shalikashvili; Arthur Levitt, the long-serving former chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission; former British Prime Minister John Major; former Secretary of State Baker; and former President Bush (Carlyle officers say the elder Bush's principal role is as "a draw": delivering speeches at Carlyle-sponsored events). Last February, the California Public Employees' Retirement System announced it was investing $425 million in "a strategic partnership" with Carlyle. Even the company owned by Osama bin Laden's estranged billionaire family in Saudi Arabia was among Carlyle's clients--a mere $2-million investment that Carlyle said it bought out after Sept. 11 "for image reasons," Ullman said. He declined to say whether the Bin Ladens made a profit." http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/may2001/carl-m16.shtml "Charles Lewis, executive director of the Center for Public Integrity, commented, “Carlyle is as deeply wired into the current administration as they can possibly be. George Bush is getting money from private interests that have business before the government, while his son is president. And, in a really peculiar way, George W. Bush could, some day, benefit financially from his own administration's decisions, through his father's investments.”" http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/10_09_01_carlyle.html "In a world now filled with biowarfare agents, backpack nuclear devices, and chemical weapons like Sarin gas -- where there are people in many countries with reasons to oppose the United States -- the Bush Administration is following predictable strategies in a way that redefines the concept of brinksmanship. Human survival may depend upon the will and the ability of both the Congress and the press to focus on these relationships and to take appropriate action. Moreover - and I am not the first to say this - if a national security priority is to seize the financial assets of those who support terrorists, then perhaps we should start right here at home." http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/10_26_01_binladensbail.html "FTW, Oct. 26, 2001, 1700 PDT - The New York Times is today reporting that, "The Saudi family of Osama bin Laden is severing its financial ties with the Carlyle Group, a private investment firm known for its connections to influential Washington political figures, executives who have been briefed on the decision said today." Some of those influential figures include George H.W. Bush and his son, our President." BONUS!!! http://www.lpdallas.org/features/draheim/dr991216.htm Our enemy is really our friend, or, thanks grandpa, or, how the Bush family and their Boys have profited in the past from manufacturing state enemies ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:10:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: Steal Something Day: November 24, 2002 (a yawn to Gwyn) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Karma Gwyn, i'm really FASCINATED by your continued annoyance of other people's "karma" and other people's ideas about how they should conduct their lives. i didn't realize the job of a "good" Buddhist was to proselytize. do you have a history of christian missionaries in your family or something? you have that ENDLESS WHIFF of righteous stink coming across the internet, and this incense just doesn't cut it over here. we really DON'T need you to hold our hands through the cold dark alley, so you can turn your attentions back to your own life now. but thanks so much for your blatantly insincere concerns. may we all wake from this long sleep of religious rigor and raise hell once and for all! Conrad > I participated! I mercilessly stole a kiss from my husband, although I > can't say he seemed overly dismayed by the theft, and then I stole a nap! > Is that good? > > Gwyn McVay > > --- > Our battle with the book is our Buddhist battle. -- Robin > Blaser ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 13:54:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: the storms not here before it came In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the storms not here before it came I'm talking to my baby that's not a baby . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .=20= . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . .=20= . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .=20= . . . . . . . . . . . . . I'm talking to a part of myself that=92s not=20= there . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .=20= . . . . . . . . . . I'm not the expectant, am expectant to be, one more=20= to come around the corner, stack'm up high, "howdy partner," I feel=20 your breath inside . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .=20= . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .=20= . . . a rebel without a cause, a stick without a word, storm troopers=20= singing of holiday songs for the fuehrer, "it's wonderful day in the=20 neighborhood . . . . . . . . . . . .=94 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = .=20 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .=20= . . . . . . . . . . . you are not here . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .=20= . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .=20= . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .=20= . . . . you are a little . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .=20= . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .=20= . how old . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .=20= . . .. .. ... . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . how=20 hungry . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . and=20 how many . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .=20= . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .=20= . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .and=20 again you are a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .=20= . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .=20= . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .=20= . . . . . . . . . . . . . . and will be . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .=20= . . . . . . . . . . . . or for the future to come . . . . . . . . . . .=20= . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .=20= I'm talking to something not here - puking on the part of me not here,=20= always hungry, sucking me dry, consuming everything, part earth mover,=20= roaring stain that won't go away, a lower perspective with single=20 capabilities, licking food with velcro teeth, sucking protrusions into=20= nonexistence . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .=20= . . . . . . . . .. .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . you=20 are not mine that will never be, I am no longer here .=20 ........................= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 17:45:28 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Floodeditions@AOL.COM Subject: SADLY by William Fuller MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable NEW FROM FLOOD EDITIONS IN JANUARY Sadly by William Fuller ($12) Order now for just twelve dollars with free shipping;=20 your book will arrive in early January. Drawing equally on Buddhist sutras and country blues,=20 William Fuller=E2=80=99s Sadly derives compassion from its=20 ironic vision. Quick and sometimes elusive, these poems=20 observe fluctuations in consciousness, economic markets,=20 and the weather. In the Chicago Tribune, Maureen McLane=20 has written of Fuller=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cdense, elliptical meditations,=E2= =80=9D=20 finding =E2=80=9Cluminous images that consistently marry the=20 cerebral and the sensual.=E2=80=9D=20 A questionable right babinski says hi hello despite awful tremors, so do not perseverate in rhymes my penitential apostrophe rings your burden down without touching the third rail kind pity kind pity a new kind of human being awakens to humiliation . . . --from =E2=80=9CSadly=E2=80=9D Still available from Flood Editions: Pam Rehm, Gone to Earth - $10 Ronald Johnson, The Shrubberies - $14 =20 Tom Pickard, Hole in the Wall: New & Selected - $15 Philip Jenks, On the Cave You Live In - $10 Fanny Howe, Economics - $14=20 Paul Hoover, Winter (Mirror) - $13 Coming Soon: Robert Duncan, Letters: Poems 1953-56 Flood Editions, founded by Devin Johnston and Michael O=E2=80=99Leary, is de= dicated=20 to bringing out the work of both undiscovered and established poets, in=20 finely made yet affordable editions.=20 Flood Editions PO Box 3865 Chicago IL 60654-0865 www.floodeditions.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 18:48:41 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Steal Something Day: November 24, 2002 (a yawn to Gwyn) In-Reply-To: <0F002CE1.7698ABB7.01F36A84@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" can we stop w/ the character assassination? it's very unlistlike. At 4:10 PM -0500 12/1/02, Craig Allen Conrad wrote: >Dear Karma Gwyn, >i'm really FASCINATED by your continued annoyance of other people's >"karma" and other people's ideas about how they should conduct their >lives. i didn't realize the job of a "good" Buddhist was to >proselytize. do you have a history of christian missionaries in >your family or something? you have that ENDLESS WHIFF of righteous >stink coming across the internet, and this incense just doesn't cut >it over here. > >we really DON'T need you to hold our hands through the cold dark >alley, so you can turn your attentions back to your own life now. >but thanks so much for your blatantly insincere concerns. > >may we all wake from this long sleep of religious rigor and raise >hell once and for all! >Conrad > >> I participated! I mercilessly stole a kiss from my husband, although I >> can't say he seemed overly dismayed by the theft, and then I stole a nap! >> Is that good? > > > > Gwyn McVay > > > > --- > > Our battle with the book is our Buddhist battle. -- Robin > > Blaser -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:19:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Skinner Subject: Kenning holiday special for poetics list kin Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In his etc., Patrick buries mention of the fact that Kenning #11 ALSO contains-- besides, at the other end of the spectrum, a great Baraka reading ("Wooden Negros at the Poetry Slam" and "Low Coups") two extremely RARE (and recent) recordings of French poet Anne-Marie Albiach, reading from _Etat_ and _Mezza Voce_ ("Esquisse: le froid"). Albiach is one of the major late 20th C French poets, who hasn't given a reading in probably twenty years. You won't hear her anywhere else. JS * Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:05:18 -0600 From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: Kenning holiday special for poetics list kin I will not accept checks dated 11/29 ("Buy Nothing Day") - otherwise, For $15.00 US dollars, get yourself three issues of Kenning (#s 11-13) - = just send a check made payable to the editor ("Patrick Durgin") and I'll = ship them right out. What do you get? OFTEN, a play by Barbara Guest = and Kevin Killian (offset chapbook with color prints); WAY / The Audio = Edition, a double-CD featuring sounds from Leslie Scalapino, Nathaniel = Mackey, Edwin Torres, Andrew Levy & Gerry Hemingway, many etc's; = Kenning 13 the send-off issue, with new writing from Susan Schultz, Kit = Robinson, Terrence Chiusano, Robert Creeley, Thom Donovan, many etc's = ... You save over $13.00 off cover price and shipping's free. = Back-issues of obscure litmags make mildly appropriate gifts. Send your orders to Kenning / Durgin, 383 Summer Street, Buffalo NY = 14213. This super-special-holiday-back-issue thing is good through = December. More info on Kenning Editions at = www.durationpress.com/kenning=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:36:27 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: help! book sales stats? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT . [No responses the first time I posted this query-- surely, somebody knows of such a thing?] Does anyone know of an online resource that gives book sales statistics per title or ISBN? I seem to remember something like this on Amazon, but that might relate only to sales through Amazon itself. If anyone knows of such a resource, please backchannel-- aaron@belz.net Thanks, Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 23:24:44 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Re: help! book sales stats? In-Reply-To: <005901c299ab$9d71bf50$d0dbbed0@belzjones1500.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ask poindexter. he'll know. On Sun, 1 Dec 2002, Aaron Belz wrote: > Does anyone know of an online resource that gives book sales statistics per > title or ISBN? I seem to remember something like this on Amazon, but that > might relate only to sales through Amazon itself. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:36:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: help! book sales stats? In-Reply-To: <005901c299ab$9d71bf50$d0dbbed0@belzjones1500.local> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Maybe on Amazon, for their sales, but I know of no such list or reason for one. Most publishers would not want low sales to be a part of public record for a variety of reasons. When you do read publisher numbers, my experience, and its from lots of years in publishing, is to automatically divide the given number by 2. I.E. Publishers love to inflate sales figures as a way to increase more sales, sale of secondary rights, create illusion of market presence, etc., etc. Nothing to equal ENRON, of course. When you get to poetry sales, the truth, in the short term, is usually more humbling than anyone would want to share publicly (with the exception of a genuinely break-out book). The larger time frame is the way to look at numbers and values. Gale Research (Education Market) is now in its third volume of works by or on the Beat Generation. Editions of 1,000 copies each, for $400 a copy, plus On-Line sales to libraries. A fifty year time span in which small press editions evolve into corporate-text book big time. Much larger public exposure for the work and possible money (if you the author and/or Press live that long!) There all kinds of variations on this picture. I don't know your motive for wanting to know the stats, but if you are wanting publishing guidance (if that's the subtext here), my experience is that it's best to ask - in privacy - the publishers themselves. Stephen Vincent on 12/1/02 6:36 PM, Aaron Belz at aaron@BELZ.NET wrote: > . > [No responses the first time I posted this query-- surely, somebody knows of > such a thing?] > > Does anyone know of an online resource that gives book sales statistics per > title or ISBN? I seem to remember something like this on Amazon, but that > might relate only to sales through Amazon itself. > > If anyone knows of such a resource, please backchannel-- aaron@belz.net > > Thanks, > Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 14:02:58 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: komninos zervos Subject: Lecturer in CyberStudies In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1F4A38BD; boundary="=======7A413656=======" --=======7A413656======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1F4A38BD; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Position Advertisement search available jobs view all positions Key Accountabilities / Duties Conditions Selection Criteria Application Process Further Enquiries Related Documents ALL JOB APPLICATIONS RECEIVED BY THE UNIVERSITY WILL BE TREATED AS=20 CONFIDENTIAL. CyberStudies , Assoc Lect or Lecturer Continuing , Full Time , Gold Coast VRN ART13320/02 Closing Date 13.12.02 The School of Arts seeks to appoint an Associate Lecturer or Lecturer in=20 CyberStudies. This is a new position to expand the team in a rapidly=20 growing area of the School=92s activities. The CyberStudies major has an=20 emphasis on advances in global technologies and their creative applications= =20 within the context of communities. It services Communication, Arts and=20 Creative Arts degrees at the Bachelors and Masters levels. The position=20 requires the capacity to convene and teach in a number of CyberStudies=20 courses. The appointee will have a background in both information=20 technology and creative uses of digital technologies; and demonstrated=20 knowledge of cyber theory and current issues regarding technological=20 development, especially in relation to the Web and Web-based applications.= =20 S/he will have the ability to teach, including in flexible modes; to=20 produce high-quality research; to attract competitive research/consultancy= =20 funding; to work productively with the community and industry, including=20 assisting in community/industry placement programs; and to supervise=20 Honours and/or Research Higher Degree students. A PhD or progress toward a= =20 Research Higher Degree is essential. There is scope for contribution to=20 other creative arts practice and digital media production areas. Appointment will be made at either Associate Lecturer or Lecturer Level=20 depending on qualifications and experience Key Accountabilities / Duties 1. Convene and teach in CyberStudies including using flexible modes 2. Contribute to community and industry links, and to community/industry=20 experience programs 3. Research and publish in areas of expertise 4. Seek external research funding oppurtunities 5. Supervise Honours and/or Research Higher Degree students 6. Consult with undergraduate students 7. Assist in course administration, planning for equipment, resources and=20 infrastructure, and general administration of the School (including=20 committee service) 8. Engage in supportive collegial relationships that promote=20 cross-disciplinary study and equal oppurtunity within the School and across= =20 other elements of the University 9. Undertake other duties as designated by the Head of School Conditions e.g. Salary, Superannuation(AUS $) Annual Salary Lecturer: $53,451 to $63,474 per annum. (Salary package=20 including 17% employer superannuation contribution: $62,537 to $74,265 per= =20 annum) Associate Lecturer: $37,416 to $50,777 per annum. (Salary package=20 including 17% employer superannuation contribution: $43,777 to $59,409 per= =20 annum) Selection Criteria Essential 1. Completed PhD or demonstrated progress toward a Research Higher Degree 2. Demonstrated practical experience in information technology and its=20 creative applications 3. Demonstrated ability to convene, teach and co-teach courses in=20 CyberStudies, including using flexible modes 4. Demonstrated knowledge of cyber theory and current issues regarding=20 technological development 5. Capacity to supervise Honours and/or Research Higher Degree students 6. Ability to contribute to the School's research profile through=20 publication and the attraction of research funding 7. A significant personal Web presence and/or demonstrated advanced Web=20 development skills 8. Demonstrated capacity to work productively in a cross-disciplinary arts= =20 and media team environment 9. Ability to work productively with the community and industry Desirable 10. A capacity to contribute to other areas of the School's activities such= =20 as digital broadcast applications, digital video production and new media=20 in creative and performing arts practice 11. A developed academic teaching and research profile which may include=20 course development, creative practice, non-traditional publications and=20 research consultancy 12. Established community and/or industry links Application Process For any informal discussions about this position, please contact =B7 Dr Patricia Wise, Head of School, Arts =B7 facsimile (07) 5552 8141 =B7 telephone (07) 5552 8620 =B7 email P.Wise@mailbox.gu.edu.au Applicants should ensure: =B7 all of the selection criteria are addressed; =B7 quote the job title and reference number =B7 include evidence of experience, qualifications, teaching=20 evaluations; and =B7 the names, addresses, email, phone and fax numbers of three= referees. Whilst the position is continuing, applicants should indicate if they would= =20 prefer the appointment to be on a secondment basis, full-time, fixed-term=20 or part-time. Applicants should include a CV and should reach Mr Jason=20 Stephensen, Human Resources Officer, Griffith University, nathan Queensland= =20 4111, Australia by the closing date. Applicants may submit their=20 applications by email attachment to j.stephensen@mailbox.gu.edu.au. (Please= =20 run an up-to date virus check before dispatching.) Each page should be numbered and have the applicant's name on the top=20 right-hand corner. If forwarding a hard copy by mail, applicants are=20 requested to submit all documents single sided. Applicants should also refer to the following Summary Conditions of=20 Appointment: =B7 Associate Lecturer (Level A) =B7 Lectuer (Level B) =B7 Position Classifications Standards Associate Lecturer (Level A) =B7 Lecturer (Level A) Further Enquiries: Ms Michelle Seeto Phone: (07) 3875 6549 Fax: (07) 3875 3770 Email: m.seeto@mailbox.gu.edu.au Further Useful Information: Web Sites to Visit: Faculty/Office information Brisbane, Gold Coast and Logan Environment Information Discovering Griffith 21 Service Standards Frequently asked questions --=======7A413656======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1F4A38BD Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/02 --=======7A413656=======-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 23:14:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: chado MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII chado tea the scoop node chashaku then broken into at grooved towards scoop: from bend to groove (where joint), torsion is, or a tension matcha, - tendency air-borne occupany bowl of (chawan), tensor focusing striations on joint, where moment stoop occurs, air slight and brush slow-breeze particles stirring tree woman two _beneath_ branches crown mouth peace dry one harmony ten even flat tea the scoop node chashaku then broken into at grooved towards scoop: from bend to groove (where joint), torsion is, or a tension matcha, - tendency air-borne occupany bowl of (chawan), tensor focusing striations on joint, where moment stoop occurs, air slight and brush slow-breeze particles stirring tree woman two _beneath_ branches crown mouth peace dry one harmony ten even flat tea the scoop node chashaku then broken into at grooved the towards node the then scoop: into tea grooved scoop towards chashaku scoop: at from bend to at groove the (where joint), bend torsion is, or joint), to a groove torsion (where or the tension matcha, - tendency air-borne towards matcha, the tendency occupany occupany bowl of tension bowl air-borne (chawan), tensor focusing striations on of tensor joint, striations where joint, (chawan), where focusing moment the stoop of occurs, air slight and brush slow-breeze air of and particles slow-breeze of stirring stoop particles slight tree woman two _beneath_ branches crown mouth tree peace two dry branches one mouth harmony woman peace _beneath_ dry crown one or ten even flat and tea scoop chashaku broken at the node then into grooved towards the scoop: from node to groove (where the bend is, at the joint), a torsion or tension - air-borne matcha, tendency towards the occupany of the bowl (chawan), focusing on the tensor striations of the joint, where the moment of stoop occurs, slight brush of air and slow-breeze stirring of particles woman _beneath_ crown or tree two branches mouth harmony peace dry one and ten even flat peace == ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 22:23:18 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: help! book sales stats? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Stephen, Thanks. I have some sales statistics from Josh Billings that I wanted to compare to modern humor books (or any modern books, actually)-- in 1870 he sold 90,000 copies of a book in 3 months, and sold out the edition. In 1871 he sold 127,000 of his next book. In 1872 and subsequent years through the rest of the decade, I think he eclipsed the 100,000 sales mark three more times. This strikes me as a huge publishing success, especially for such an offbeat, poetic comic like Billings. I did a little formula to figure those sales stats in present day terms (per population difference) and they are like 600,000-850,000. Which also strikes me as a huge publishing success. How do the Harpers Index people do their thing? Is there like one CD-ROM with all the all-time stats on it? I'd like to compare Vince Coleman's on-base percentage with the sum of the hat-sizes of the American presidents of 1900-1950 divided by the mean weight of the spotted turkish game hen of that same historical period-- you know what I mean. I want stats!!! Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 00:52:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Because... Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:31:32 -0800 > From: MWP > Subject: Because. . . > > I had an hour to kill and tragic news to forget : > > The following image constitutes a literal transmogrification of the Barbara > Guest poem "Heavy Violets," using a 1-1 letter->color mapping and some basic > blurring and edge manipulation. Okay, so it's terribly stupid, but it also > kind of works, I think, and if nothing else it was a way to pass the time in > an hour of pain. I won't be doing any more of these unless I can encrust > some theory around them first, so if anybody wants to help. . . > > > http://aroseisaroseisarose.com/W2C01x.jpg > > > > > > -m > > ---------- Mark: I think your transmogrification of the Guest poem is interesting and looks very good, although I don't know the poem. As for theoretical support I wrote the following in the early 90's in a discussion of Ray DiPalma's excellent visual poems -Marquee-(published by Asylum's Press, 1977) and -The Sargasso Transcries-(X editions,1974) -it seems to me desperately important that the connection between visual imagining and linguistic imagining be rediscovered for our period. It is very possible that this could only be done improvisationally, because there are as yet only a few indications as to where these connections might lie. Because this is now so hard to do, people tend to acquire information by "hearing about it" rather than "seeing it for themselves." Although this hearing about things often occurs while watching television, the over lay between the heard words and the selected image encourages the viewer to accept the report as it is given. The recent coverage of the Persian Gulf War in the media will illustrate this in a frightening way. Before the dependence on television and film images, one compensation for the authoritative program of the written text was the opportunity to do with visualizing for ourselves...- (from -The Boundary of Blur-, Roof, 1993) I would also suggest having a look at the catalogue for the -Poetry Plastique- show, which was curated by Charles Bernstein and Jay Sanders (Granary Books,2001) And, of course, if you can find it, the superb "Concerning Concrete Poetry" by Bob Cobbing and Peter Mayer, Writer's Forum, 1978. For example they quote Ionesco: "Words have killed images or are concealing them. A civilisation of words is a civilisation distraught. Words create confusion. Words are not the word." And Aldous Huxley: "We must learn how to handle words effectively but at the same time we must preserve and, if necessary, intensify our ability to look at the world directly and not through the half-opaque medium of concepts, which distorts every given fact into the all-too-familiar likeness of some generic label or should like to renounce speech altogether and, like organic Nature, communicate everything I have to say in sketches..." By the way, -Marquee- contains an excellent afterword by Steve McCaffery, an essay in which he states: "-Marquee- is an open challenge issued out to that communicational schema that has traditionally cast reading as a function of passivity." Also, although I know this will probably not be of immediate interest to you as you live in California, many others closer by will be happy to learn that the formidable Steve McCaffery will be presenting a video and a poetry performance at the Marianne Boesky Gallery, the site of the aforementioned -Poetry Plastique show- on Saturday, December 14th, 535 West 22cd Street, 2cd floor, (212) 680-9889- 7 PM, $8 admission. Keep transmogrifying! And I hope the pain of your tragic news passes soon. Nick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 01:37:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Blindsiding Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:51:41 EST > From: Ian Randall Wilson > Subject: Blind Copy > > I got to tell you, it's frustrating enough to plow through this list in > digest form when various zabars insist on blind copying previous messages but > the schmuck who blind copied the entire digest with his message absolutely > wins the prize. How about the list administrator acting a little more > proactively here in what gets allowed through. > > ------------------------------ Since Phil Metres did his copying on November 29th, could we possibly consider this his contribution to steal something day? Also, the automatic digest is, quite literally, automatic. Meanwhile, speaking of humor, it would be nice to see a bit more applied to the understandable occasional grousing and complaining around here. For example, what is the point of being unkind about Gwyn McVay's karmic theorizing? I'm sure she can and will defend herself quite wittily, but it seems to me that harsh responses are more upsetting than the occasional mild lapse of hip or list etiquette. Nick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 07:28:13 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Of late on the Blog Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, WOM-PO Comments: cc: whpoets@english.upenn.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert Kelly & the poetics of sound "Style is Death": Robert Kelly Finding the Measure A poetics of procedure: Robert Kelly's Axon Dendron Tree A poetics of measure: Robert Kelly's Songs I-XXX A note & a correction A Projectivist journal in 2002: Kenneth Warren's House Organ The possibilities of micropublishing: Sylvester Pollet's Backwoods Broadsides -- with a look to John Taggart George Stanley: A Tall, Serious Girl Julia Spahr: Articulation vs. argument Ruth Lilly's Gift to Poetry: The limits of $100 million http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 08:35:16 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: of stats & Ann-Marie MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1) The Wall Street Journal used to print a best-seller list on Fridays and used to indicate the number of copies that the top seller had had, so they must have had some system for figuring that out. I haven't seen that in some time, but I'm a pretty light reader of the Journal, just skim it for what I need for my job & to see the latest outrages of editorial hoo-hah. 2) I work for a firm in the computer industry that gathers & publishes these sorts of numbers for that field. We sell those reports for thousands of dollars. If I had such a list for the publishing industry, that's probably what I'd be doing also. I don't know if a market strategy firm exists for that vertical market, though. 3) When I visited Ann-Marie Albiach in 1988, Joey Simas & Robert Kocik were in the process of preparing her for a reading that she had agreed to give later that year. So I doubt that it's really been 20 years since she's given a reading. Now, it may well be that she has not been out of her apartment since that reading in 1988, but she's neither the first nor only poet to have this condition. Ron ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 07:23:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: The Milk of Venus: 2 Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii for Renee I get tours of roots today. I think Baby's dry . There's only one way it can rain milk on the hour, and that's to think all the way through trucks growling loam metal psyche sneezes, all the while sticking to this sentient blessing of crosshatch ice. It, too, withdraws from warmth; I think of its wounds, or round wars of feeling lower than glow kids gloss you to a brink's hole. A condominium's sky sounds indifferent to ghetto fabled traffic stamps. but we pay for this as well. No walking on Staples Mill lake ice yet. The opposite of freezing is Baby's cream. ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:48:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Benchley, etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi Damian, I think we're reading Benchley fairly differently, which is cool. It's true, w/respect to humor, at least the stuff that I tend to like, I do treat form as something that produces that "immediate charge" you were talking about--and that's probably what I most focus on--almost with blinders on, sometimes, to the more surface-y, cultural/social stuff. So, for me, for instance, Benchley's "Opera Synopsis" (which I'll try and track down today), I always saw more in light of, like, Kenward Elmslie and Kenneth Koch than Billy Wilder (who I also love). While it was obviously in part the juxtaposition of high and low culture that made me laugh, I found, slowly piecing through it, how Benchley was using sound, resonance, and measure (the written equivalent of "timing" maybe, though more closely related *for me* to prosody). And then, of course, thinking about reader expectation, and what he did with that, though that's more on the cultural end of things, I guess--except that when I was reading Benchley (which was really twenty years ago or so), I wasn't thinking so much of that as the literal fact of the writing, what words went where, how he ended a sentence ... I remember he uses, for instance, "jurisprudence" at the end of one paragraph in a piece about being his own lawyer or being deposed or something--and it was *that*, I realized, that for me, was where the charge was coming from. He'd channeled the energy through the paragraph and it kind of explodes with that last word, which given that much formal heat, takes on several meanings, resonances, innuendo. Like bp Nichol's poem that you were supposed to fold up and light on fire and see different words or fragments as they came into view while the poem, literally burned. There's a great piece you can read for free of Veronica Geng's on Amazon--it's a fair example of some of the of formal things she was doing--including an example of using (while critiquing) difficulty/disjunction. The book is called "Love Trouble" and if you find it on Amazon and then click on "Look inside this book," there's a pdf of "Report from Your Congressman" -- it also uses "nuanced repetition" in the form of a repeated photograph (kind of how Donald Barthelme used repeated images of, say, a black cube), which I won't describe since it can be seen there. I'll maybe look for something else of hers to post, later ... Anyway, don't worry, I don't have any interest in starting up ye olde academic/anti-academic thread either--Aaron's question just made me curious as to why some writing gets looked at *as* writing ... and some (very artful, measured) writing gets lumped in with popular culture, etc., without being really looked at as writing, as "text." (See, because, to me, the moment you take Benchley and start reading him as a writer, using poetry-world analogies let's say instead of Hollywood or Mad Magazine analogies--when you consider his writing as *written* instead of as the product (by-product?) of a humorist, I think it might--*might*--change how his writing gets read. To me, part of the problem of anyone's seeing Benchley's writing as writing is that, the moment you do lump him in with, like, visual culture (the movies), you've already gotten away from the medium he's working in, and so may be less apt to consider it in consideration of what he was doing.) Part of the fate (w/respect to the canon) of humorists like Benchley might well be that sense that it *is* "casual"--which even Benchley wouldn't have argued with--although he would have been lying, I think. What did he once say ... something about how, by the time he realized he was a terrible writer, it was too late--he was already famous. (Which reminds me of that Ron Padgett poem that opens of one of his Sun books, where he says this book has just come out, and how the publisher paid so much attention to it and so on & so forth, but that he's a horrible poet and the book is awful. Something like that--I'm away from my bookcase, so can't quote it exactly.) Gary _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 11:33:23 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harriet Zinnes Subject: news MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just to say that my new book of poems DRAWING ON THE WALL has been nominated for the National Book Critics Award in Poetry. Best Harriet ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 11:34:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jane Sprague Subject: Fw: Tinfish Press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Forward from Susan Schultz. Apologies for cross posting...j. Tinfish Press Newsletter and special offer: December, 2002 Tinfish Press has been exceedingly busy during the past couple of years. Among our publications in that time number several issues of the journal, seven chapbooks of poetry and critical prose, and a full length book with Subpress. Each publication features surprising and original work from the Pacific region, along with exquisite designs by young Hawai`i designers. We’re very proud of our list, and want to tell you about it. To see more about the following titles, check our website: http://maven.english.hawaii.edu/tinfish Alchemies of Distance is Caroline Sinavaiana-Gabbard’s first book of poetry. She writes out of the traditions of Samoa, the American South, and Tibetan Buddhism (among others), offering her reader incisive critiques of contemporary culture and spiritual commentary leavened with sharp wit. The cover design is by Stuart Henley, of the UH Department of Art. $12 from Subpress. Sista Tongue, by Lisa Linn Kanae, is Tinfish’s best-selling chapbook ever. Kanae has written an absorbing memoir/academic essay about growing up a pidgin speaker in Hawai`i. She makes parallels between the ways pidgin speakers and children with “speech defects” are treated. A highly informative and touching book. Designed by Kristin Gonzales. $10 from Tinfish Press. 3 Vietnamese Poets, translated by Linh Dinh, with an introduction by the translator. A wonderful sampling of work by contemporary poets writing in Vietnamese. A strangely under-achieving seller on our list, but well worth the $9. The poetry and design rock! Designed by Stuart Henley. From Tinfish. Hamburger, by Steve Carll, is a chapbook that comes inside a foil wrapper. A series of scathing and witty poems about meat, in a meaty package. Our most fondled piece of work. Designed by Anne Sakutori, $5 from Tinfish. Piece of Work is Murray Edmond’s homage both to his mother and to the 20th century history of New Zealand. Edmond is not well known in the United States, but his poetry is among the best being written in New Zealand. He is also a dramaturge and teacher at the University of Auckland. Designed by Ken Lincoln. $7 from Tinfish. Clutch and Hockey Love Letters, by Sawako Nakayasu, include poems about hockey, about gender, about love, designed exquisitely by Jung Kim. $7 from Tinfish. Living Pidgin: Contemplations on Pidgin Culture is Lee Tonouchi’s collected critical works on his life and work as “da pidgin guerrilla.” Includes talks, essays, and concrete poems. “Standard english to me is to me like jumbo shrimp and military intelligence, one oxymoron, cuz we know from everyday experience dat english is not really standard—ees just our artificial attempt to classify—fo` attach order to dat which cannot be ordered.” A must read for anyone interested in language, Hawai`i’s culture, or who simply wants wit with wisdom. $10 from Tinfish. Tinfish 12 features work by writers from Hawai`I, New Zealand, Australia, and the west coast of the American continent. Cover designed back to front by Jung Kim; insides by Stuart Henley. $8 from Tinfish. Copies of Tinfish 11 are still available, with beautiful one of a kind covers by Chris Churchill. Running a small press is an expensive business (or anti-business). The expenses are real, running in the thousands of dollars each year, and the gains less tangible. For that reason, we ask that you consider purchasing some Tinfish Press publications during this holiday season. Buy three publications directly from the press and get a fourth one free. Take a one day espresso fast and order even more. Each book bought and paid for gets us closer to the next good book. Please send this notice along to your friends. Please write checks to Tinfish and send to Susan M. Schultz, 47-728 Hui Kelu Street #9, Kaneohe, HI 96744, or order through Ron Cox at Native Books (coxr@hawaii.edu). If you’re not in the USA, the second option includes credit card access. Most titles can be found on amazon.com; please use them as a last resort. (I am in England until December 22, but will do a mailing as soon as I return to Hawai`i.) Aloha, Susan M. Schultz Editor/Publisher Schultz@hawaii.rr.com http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/schultz/ Gaye Chan Cover girl Gchan@hawaii.edu http://downwindproductions.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 08:37:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Re: Because... In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks for the marvelous input, NP! I don't know that my little piece deserves it. The Guest poem is reproduced below, and should you decide to compare I think you will clearly see the simple character-image correspondence I have established. The only major modification I make is that I stretch out each line so that it is fully justified instead of left-justified - heresy, I know! The squares and associated colors correspond to individual letters and punctuation marks, and their width is determined by how many letters fit on a line. (Creating a 4-part [X 3] polyrhythm of sorts, which I did knowing Guest's interest in contemporary music.) Like I say, a stupid idea, but it got me across an unsteady bridge without it falling. I am quite short on liquid assets at the moment, but the first book you mention (PP) is already high on my "to buy" list, and the others have been added. Thanks so much for that! I frankly find the pitting of word against image in the quotes you cite (especially the Huxley) to be very problematic. To me there is no antagonism involved, but that shall be grounds for some future debate when I am more in the mood. . . The following is the poem Heavy Violets, by Barbara Guest: Heavy violets there is no way if the door clicks the cushion makes murmur noise and the woman on the sofa turns half in half out a tooth slipping from velvet. The world makes this division copied by words each with a leaf attached to images it makes of this half in air and half out like haloes or wrists That separate while they spin airs or shadows if you wish, once or twice half in half out a real twirl jostles there lips creased with violets you wish. And here's the image again: http://aroseisaroseisarose.com/W2C01x.jpg -m > Mark: > I think your transmogrification of the Guest poem is interesting and looks > very good, although I don't know the poem. > > As for theoretical support I wrote the following in the early 90's in a > discussion of Ray DiPalma's excellent visual poems -Marquee-(published by > Asylum's Press, 1977) and -The Sargasso Transcries-(X editions,1974) > > -it seems to me desperately important that the connection between visual > imagining and linguistic imagining be rediscovered for our period. It is > very possible that this could only be done improvisationally, because there > are as yet only a few indications as to where these connections might lie. > Because this is now so hard to do, people tend to acquire information by > "hearing about it" rather than "seeing it for themselves." Although this > hearing about things often occurs while watching television, the over lay > between the heard words and the selected image encourages the viewer to > accept the report as it is given. The recent coverage of the Persian Gulf > War in the media will illustrate this in a frightening way. Before the > dependence on television and film images, one compensation for the > authoritative program of the written text was the opportunity to do with > visualizing for ourselves...- (from -The Boundary of Blur-, Roof, 1993) > > I would also suggest having a look at the catalogue for the -Poetry > Plastique- show, which was curated by Charles Bernstein and Jay Sanders > (Granary Books,2001) > > And, of course, if you can find it, the superb "Concerning Concrete Poetry" > by Bob Cobbing and Peter Mayer, Writer's Forum, 1978. > > For example they quote Ionesco: "Words have killed images or are concealing > them. A civilisation of words is a civilisation distraught. Words create > confusion. Words are not the word." > > And Aldous Huxley: "We must learn how to handle words effectively but at the > same time we must preserve and, if necessary, intensify our ability to look > at the world directly and not through the half-opaque medium of concepts, > which distorts every given fact into the all-too-familiar likeness of some > generic label or should like to renounce speech altogether and, like organic > Nature, communicate everything I have to say in sketches..." > > By the way, -Marquee- contains an excellent afterword by Steve McCaffery, an > essay in which he states: "-Marquee- is an open challenge issued out to that > communicational schema that has traditionally cast reading as a function of > passivity." Also, although I know this will probably not be of immediate > interest to you as you live in California, many others closer by will be > happy to learn that the formidable Steve McCaffery will be presenting a > video and a poetry performance at the Marianne Boesky Gallery, the site of > the aforementioned -Poetry Plastique show- on Saturday, December 14th, 535 > West 22cd Street, 2cd floor, (212) 680-9889- 7 PM, $8 admission. > > Keep transmogrifying! And I hope the pain of your tragic news passes soon. > > Nick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 11:44:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Confessions of a Failure In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Oh God. Craig Allen Conrad. I am wounded to the core by your denigration of my attempts to participate in your holiday. Are you saying that a kiss from my husband isn't WORTH stealing? Have you kissed him yourself to evaluate this? If not, I submit that you are falsely evaluating my skill as a thief. I suppose you're not going to give me any points for having listened to the Grateful Dead's _Steal Your Face_ on that day either. I mean, that was a sacrifice, man! Everyone knows the live bootlegs are much better! Oh, wait. They're not bootlegs. The (surviving portion of the) band explicitly condones them. God, I can't do anything right! Gwyn McFailure ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:49:44 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Conundrum Subject: Conundrum #1 release Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Conundrum magazine celebrates the release of its first issue! Issue 1 includes work by: Joan Retallack, Paul Foster Johnson, Laura Mullen, Lee J. Gough, Lisa Jarnot, Laynie Browne, Cole Swensen, Rosmarie Waldrop, E. Tracy Grinnell, Stephen Ratcliffe, Keith Waldrop, Mark Tardi, Tom Raworth, John Latta, Chris Stroffolino, Jen Hofer, Sawako Nakayasu, John Crouse, Jim Leftwich, Ray DiPalma, Heather C. Akerberg, Kyle Schlesinger, Taylor Brady, Patrick F. Durgin, Chris Pusateri, Michael Bernstein, Mark DuCharme, Dennis Barone, Francis Raven, Robert Quillen Camp ---- Single issues $6, a 2-issue subscription $10. Send checks payable to Kerri Sonnenberg, 1332 N. Wicker Park Ave., Chicago, IL 60622 Reading work for issue 2 through Jan. 15, 2003 Submissions may be sent electronically or to the address above www.conundrumpoetry.com ---- Feb. 12, 2003: Release party reading for issue 1 in Chicago More details to come... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 08:56:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: Blindsiding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii npiombino@AAAHAWK.COM wrote: > harsh responses are more upsetting than the occasional mild lapse of hip or list etiquette. < Unpleasant words are more unctuous than a blue moon's slight omission of cool or digital manners. Nasty answers are more corrosive than an infrequent faint slip in trendiness or Miss Manners' cyber-fascism. Cruel replies are more hellish than the innocent breach of state university propriety. A whiff of negativism is more lethal than pardonable ignorance of the law. A peep of unkindness is more beastly than an unwitting pecadillo. The mouth that speaks bitterly is acrid with the stench of its foulness, but the one who transgresses mere formality is as a spotless lamb grazing in the field. Fingers that type unwelcome messages are more fiendish and knobby than an impeccable blunderer unmindful of i-dotting and t-crossing. The Prince of Darkness applauds gleefully when poets succumb to horrific interactions, but the blameless who stray into malapropisms accidently are as a dusting of snow on a clean whiteness. Terrorists are rude in their talk; simply forgetting the rules is forgiveable and deserves cuddling. An inconsiderate comeback can make the recipient's capillaries burst more grotesquely than a slip of an unblemished tongue. Abrasive retorts overexcite everyone into a fracas, whereas a trivial violation of decorum bothers only the thin-skinned. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 12:03:08 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Crime Gwyn, you stole my heart, but you don;t have to give it back...harry.. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 09:07:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: The Ballad of Henry Neptune--FIRST VERSE (in progress) Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ...love poke lightly in melodrama grease seals orchid distance of plod chafing defrag lordship sentient with water like wafer epoch strokes Northern Alliance stats quagmire in luncheon sheen of sheer tap inside desolation's dirty mouth sauce loudly trimmed with opal dugout genome pilsners lip surgery of foam feet junked-out in spatial knowledge that trills lint aberrations as her boredom crawls a leaded sky down white spider fluid bending Henry Neptune of umpteenth brick-layer like a coat or toke on sleepy taking muscle visits from frame marvel knocked worsted suite of pallid diligent photo noises almost realistic in camphor alignment... Imagine, if you will, a world without stabs of blink-wet ovules furred-over with ossification. A world where old guards string vessel-text from tap-root reviews across awnings of peculiar regional intensity. A world in which species spillage nullifies villager caravan trapezoids. All this and more is now available with xxxxxxx. xxxxxxx is a light polymer dream about going to work unknowingly out of uniform. You stride in unsuspecting, the last of morning coffee's hotflash boring nets out of your innards. Overnight, for reasons best left unsaid, your supervisor smeared a fractured sky across your retail ceiling. Markdowns drift unmoored like vaporous set-pieces overhead. YOU CAN'T WAIT FOR DEAFNESS TO OVERTAKE YOU. xxxxxxx will, when combined with a sensible diet and regular visits to your gynecologist, enhance the depth of color rolling over you. --Do you think it might be too much, your supervisor asks. This is tricky, you surmise, like losing consciousness at the touch of a web-tendril from the albino spider online you dreamed of during last night's deconstruction of sex. Should you tell her what you really think? That this phantasmagoria turning thickening waning convoluting above your head just may be bad for business? That the American consumer is skittish, and may not want to be reminded of all they miss by entering the synthetic sphere of modern climate-and-spatio-aurally contrived shopping? That you find her lust for domination of both you and the hapless shopping community unappealing at best? Or should you simply agree with her, and suffer the black and vaguely metallic taste of your own cowardice overrunning your mouth and throat to the point that your recurring acid reflux is a welcome respite? You shuffle and cough. So you want to kill yourself...fair enough. But have you fully considered why you want to do this? The world is full of suicides that didn’t comprehend their own reasons for finally acting on the death wish. One friend of mine, a true psychopath we’ll call here Henry Neptune, chose an incredibly novel way to end his sojourn on Earth, one most fitting to both his temperment and his predicament: he smothered himself in lint. It took months to collect enough lint to accomplish this, so you can be sure that Henry had time to think it over. I’ve got to mention, right off, before I tell you anything about Henry, that I don’t normally associate with people like this: I’m a lawyer, a highly successful lawyer, and the chances of my path crossing the path of the likes of Neptune are normally quite slim. But I’d taken on a case that seemed, at first glance, quite minor: I was defending our town’s water park, the Foam Feet, against an injury claim by one Wafer Lordship, who maintained that the managers and overseers of the Foam Feet hadn’t mentioned to him that the rush of water at the park could at peak season exceed comfortable decibel limits. The rush of water at the Foam Feet during peak season was deafening, and Mr. Lordship, being foolish enough not to wear the earplugs provided in his associate package, was, well, deafened. --Oh, I don’t know, you say, stepping back from her just in case the talons pop out. --You don’t like it? --How did you get it to move like that? --It’s lead paint. Mixed with a little weapons-grade plutonium. They interact in the most fascinating way... ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 12:08:42 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gloria Saltzman Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 30 Nov 2002 to 1 Dec 2002 (#2002-293) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello The recent editions I have received from the list are being cut off mid stream. Is anyone else having these problems? Do you have any idea how to repair the problem? Thanks Gloria Saltzman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 12:14:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pmetres Subject: Quick Quiz: A Poem MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Quick Quiz: The Persian Gulf War (a poem by Phil Metres) Please read the entire =93fill in the blank=94 before choosing your answer. Use a blank pen. Do not use pencil. When circling the correct answer, make sure to erase all unnecessary marks on the page. Otherwise, the machine may not be able to recognize your answer. However, be forewarned that the quiz has been printed with erasable ink. Do not erase possible answers. 1. The Persian Gulf War began as a result of: a) the invasion of Iraq by Kuwait. b) the invasion of Kuwait by Iran. c) slant drilling of contested oil fields. d) they took the babies from the incubators. e) $1.25/gallon. f) one hand tied behind our backs. 2. Why did Saddam Hussein invade Kuwait? a) Because he wanted to. b) Because we didn=92t want him to. c) Because April Glaspie, of the State Department, met with him in August 1990 and told him that we wouldn=92t get involved if he invaded and then he did and to cover their tracks they killed her in a mysterious auto accident in Washington. It=92s all there, on the internet. And if it=92s gone by the time you look, you know who took it down. The internet is a D.O.D. invention. Think about it. d) Because Kuwait was bogarting the fries. e) Because Kuwait is an Arabic word, meaning =93I am destined to be habitually tardy.=94 f) Because Iraqis wanted to go swimming and couldn=92t since 1917. 3. Operation Desert Storm a) succeeded in all its aims. b) succeeded in most of its aims. c) aimed to please. d) missed 75% of the time. e) was a smarter war on account of the smart bombs. f) comes with a special 3d card in every pack! Collect the whole set! 4. Which of the following were signs carried at anti-Gulf War protests before the war in San Francisco? a) Spit on the troops. b) Oil is pig grease. c) I like Bush d) Peace=3Dpussy e) Saddam Saddam, he=92s our man, if he can=92t do it, Bin Laden can. f) There were fucking protesters? What the fuck! (Quiz, page two, keep going! No doubt you=92ve already fallen behind the others. Just look around you. They know more than you and you are humiliated because you=92re still on page two. Shame on you. What are your parents going to say?) 5. What is =93steel rain=94? a) Rain mixed with sleet. b) A metaphor, where steel signifies the hardness of the rain on skin. c) Fucking awesome, dude, new X-box rated M for whatever, man. d) Fleschettes, a term that has come to evoke bits of flesh. e) The Pittsburgh quarterback=92s bomb. f) Whatever you want it to mean, big boy. 6. Saddam=92s penis a) is two inches long b) reaches Cleveland or Tel Aviv c) tastes like chicken kabob d) is in the closet, but ready for usage e) ack f) all of the above 7. Saddam Hussein was not unseated in the Gulf War because a) the Powell Principle does not address what happens on the ground. b) someone lacked gonads. c) General Barry McCaffrey wanted some camels. d) someone had a wild hare named Saddam. e) I love sequels. f) =93The Empire Strikes Back=94 proves the theory that sometimes the original is in fact the copy. 8. In the press conference, Colin Powell said, =93we have no quarrel with the Iraqi people.=94 In this context, a quarrel means a) gathering stones. b) scrum. c) minimum participation. d) blood bag. e) orcs. f) MTV Real World. 9. From 1991-2001, how many Iraqis died due to the effects of economic sanctions? a) 3,000. b) 5,000/month. c) Saddam Insane. d) Guy walks into a bar and sees Bush, Cheney and Powell sitting at a table in the corner. Goes up to them and asks what they=92re doing. Cheney says, we=92re planning to bomb Iraq to the Stone Age and they slit the throat of a bicycle repairman. Guy says, why you going to do that to the bike repairman? Cheney turns to Bush and says, I told you they don=92t care about the Iraqi people. e) Gulf War syndrome. f) All of the above. (Quiz, page three, just keep moving. The key: keep moving. No sense in getting all tangled in the logical snakes and syntactical brambles. You have things to do: if not kegstands, then at least listening to some tunes. The quiz is worth only 10% of your grade. In ten years, you won=92t even remember taking this class, much less your grade.) 10. After resigning from his post as head of the U.N. humanitarian effort in Iraq, Denis Halliday wrote the following statement: =93given the widespread humanitarian disaster caused by bombing and sanctions, we can no longer accept economic sanctions as a viable or even legal punitive policy.=94 How can we characterize this statement? a) Selective. b) Whore of Babylon. c) Losing the propaganda war. d) The triumph of fundamentalism. e) Ill goggles of the until. f) Whatcha whatcha watcha want whatcha want. 11. Terrorism shares the same root as: a) chasm. b) Magnavox. c) Robespierre. d) filthy dogs. e) jism. f) a cold car, starting in the morning. 12. A sleeper a) is a committed dreamer. b) lives an outwardly normal. c) is waiting. d) is more difficult than a needle e) in a haystack. f) looks like a stalk of hay. (Quiz, page four, Can you hear the clock pulling itself off the wall, and breaking its face for you?) 13. If you see a suspicious foreigner hanging around the street corner: a) drum up and plant a Kissinger on his cheek. b) ignoramus him. c) churn your better spycam to the seen. d) ya habibi. e) My mother died yesterday. f) asp him for a falafel or a apple. 14. Write an essay in which you argue one of the following positions: a) This is not a poem because poems wouldn=92t ask you to write an essay after reading them. b) This is a poem because poems rhyme. c) All poets are pussies, but because this poem has pussy in it, it can=92t be written by a pussy, and that means it can=92t be a poem. d) I love you. e) I hate you. f) Someday, we will all lie together in the vast and unboundable soil. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 12:46:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Scharf, Michael (RBI-US)" Subject: Snyder/Richards in NYC Dec. 7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Segue Reading Series at the Bowery Poetry Club presents D E B O R A H R I C H A R D S & R I C K S N Y D E R ---> Bowery Poetry Club <--- 308 Bowery ...just north of Houston Saturday, December 7th 4pm (Doors open at 3:30) $4 admission goes to support the readers ::Deborah Richards:: is a black Londoner who is currently living and teaching in Philadephia. Her chapbook, parable, is published by Leroy Press, and her first collection of poems, Last One Out, will be published by subpress by the end of 2002. www.scc.rutgers.edu/however/v1_5_2001/current/new-writing/richards.html ::Rick Snyder::'s chapbook Forecast Memorial transcribes newscasts leading up to the two-month anniversary of Sept. 11 and is currently online at the Duration site. Other recent works of his have appeared in Aufgabe and LVNG. His translations of Catullus appear on the Poetry Project web site, and an essay on recent translations of Paul Celan is forthcoming in Radical Society. He also edits the journal Cello Entry and curates a poetics lecture series at the Dactyl Foundation. http://www.durationpress.com/authors/snyder/home.html Curators: Laura Elrick & Michael Scharf http://www.segue.org/calendar/calendar_index.htm http://www.bowerypoetry.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 13:06:03 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: news In-Reply-To: <129.1c59cec4.2b1ce553@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" yee haw At 11:33 AM -0500 12/2/02, Harriet Zinnes wrote: >Just to say that my new book of poems DRAWING ON THE WALL has been nominated >for the National Book Critics Award in Poetry. > >Best > >Harriet -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 13:09:14 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Crime Comments: To: gmcvay@PATRIOT.NET, nudel-soho@mindspring.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" gwyn, you're always stealing my best lines... At 12:03 PM -0500 12/2/02, Harry Nudel wrote: > Gwyn, you stole my heart, but you don;t have to give it back...harry.. -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 13:28:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Golumbia Subject: Re: Confessions of a Failure In-Reply-To: from "Gwyn McVay" at Dec 02, 2002 11:44:02 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wow, Gwyn, you are so right as always, Only for me it was "Dick's Picks 20" in the space between "Black-Throated Wind" and "Friends of the Devil" starring Courtney Cox as Donna. or maybe that was DP 11, or DP 4 around "Alligator." As for bootlegs that are not bootlegs one could legitimately browser over to gdlive.com/dead. I have also learned to find many more boxes in the attics of these songs than I expected to understand, age 17 with lightning through my suddenly blue and red hat. mac O'Failure IV > > Oh God. Craig Allen Conrad. I am wounded to the core by your denigration > of my attempts to participate in your holiday. Are you saying that a kiss > from my husband isn't WORTH stealing? Have you kissed him yourself to > evaluate this? If not, I submit that you are falsely evaluating my skill > as a thief. I suppose you're not going to give me any points for having > listened to the Grateful Dead's _Steal Your Face_ on that day either. I > mean, that was a sacrifice, man! Everyone knows the live bootlegs are much > better! Oh, wait. They're not bootlegs. The (surviving portion of the) > band explicitly condones them. God, I can't do anything right! > > > Gwyn McFailure > -- dgolumbi@panix.com David Golumbia ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:07:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: Re: Confessions of a Failure Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Okay, I don't see how this back and forth is adding anything to a list devoted to poetics and all of its ancillary components: announcements, discussions, etc. It just seems sort of petty and maybe it could continue via backchannel... _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 12:04:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Mr. B In-Reply-To: <004401c27d75$5d3b2cc0$6196ccd1@CeceliaBelle> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >What a pretty picture....the female instructor, wearing only a handsome >man's shirt, teaching 20th Century philosophy to the eager Bowering, who >sprawls at her feet, looking intently up. > But it is clearly a fantasy. The woman in question would not spell the >German philosopher's name the way you,o Corrector of Spelling, spell it. > If you are without sin, as you claim, you are not without error. And Rachel >is not without honor. DB >-----Original Message----- Okay, how many German philosophers spell my name correctly? How many USAmerican poets, for that matter? Spelling does indeed count, but it does not count as much as does the lady's honour, which she maintains despite the shabby way you dress her. > >>>I didnt ~prefer~your shirts, Geo. They were all that were left for me to >>>wear,in that indifferent climate,and where fashion counts for nowt, after >>>you had micturated on my own. I sccepted your apology the next morning. >Why >>>do you go on and on about this unseemly incident? It couldnnt be that you >>>are protecting someone--name of Rachel, perhaps? Bromms >> >>Okay, okay. But I will tell you one thing, Broomstick. She looks a >>lot better in your shirt than you ever did. And she knows more about >>Husserl and his feelings about Heiddegar. >>-- >>George Bowering >>Free of sin. >>Fax 604-266-9000 >> -- George Bowering In need of a chocolate. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:16:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: why the dead is pertinent to poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I love group nouns, how they screw up syntax! I am pleased to learn of David Golumbia's allegiance to Jerry, Bob, etc, Having already been aware of Gwyn's, Rod's, and several surprising others. These are posts on seldom-acknowledged influences on cont. po. When I tabled for the Poetry Project at a Dead show at MSG to benefit the lyricist's foundation, it was pretty clear to me that their audience overlapped with poetry's audience, or at least that these were people who were going to be receptive to whatever was in front of them right then. E.g., they were crazy about Eileen Myles. Carnival and literature, a possible subject, right Bakhtin? Jordan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:35:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Golumbia Subject: on Jordan's and Rod's relevance to Alan, & a shout-out to Ramrod and Betty for helping to O'haraize Ramrod's list relevance In-Reply-To: from "Jordan Davis" at Dec 02, 2002 03:16:35 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i understand, the failure of my poetry or relevance to be relevant to the deep failure of the list, is in fact dead, and i have failed enough to communicate this to the list: it is later than i thought. i somewho canot communicate my sondheim fulsomely enough to make the list grateful, nor repeat myself in acceptably programmatic listform, which is like to die-in-poem, up on the wall, it's not failure but fractured, and the fall, "lie-dream of a casino soul." -- dgolumbi@panix.com David Golumbia ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:38:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Dear Maria Damon who calls the kettle black MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 12/1/2002 7:48:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, damon001@UMN.EDU writes: > > > can we stop w/ the character assassination? it's very unlistlike. > this of course from a poet who referred to an entire group of poets on the list 11/24/02 as "...ugly, victimy and shortsighted." yeah, i guess you know PLENTY about character assassination Maria Damon. and frankly, that particular e-mail was annoying because there's really NOTHING wrong with human beings sharing their feelings about an unprecedented amount of money going to a single poetry magazine. all that invented story you concocted comparing them to grad students trampling over one another for a job was so self-righteous. how do you know for sure that that's how they felt, that that's who they are? and who are YOU to say what's "listlike" by the way? all this middle class tea party language is making me sleepy. i'm going to read some poetry now to wake up. Conrad ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:39:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: the dead, sure...the back/forth one upping, not sure Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed hey, I'm all for focusing on the centrality of questions of signification in social life in general and artistic creation in particular, all for examining the way in which language registers the conflicts between social groups, all for talkin' about the dead and "the dead" etc. but, but, but...the one up thing is taxing...and I'm more of a Black Sabbath fan myself... noah _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 13:28:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Confessions of a Failure In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Gwyn, Just go and boost a pair of sunglasses or shampoo at your local Rite-Aid. This will give you street cred with the insouciant anarchist wing of poetics. Tho' I think it's obvious that it is a satire on the limp thing that "Buy Nothing Day" has become. I do think saying "I prefer not to" no longer cuts the mustard. What do you do when the other side no longer even name-checks the golden rule? It may be time to start doing unto other _before_ they do unto you. The only problem with Steal Something Day is that its intellectual origins clearly derive from Breakfast at Tiffany's, when Audrey Hepburn and George Peppard go into Woolworth's and dash out with stolen masks. Then again, this movie is the origin of theory of the simulacrum (i.e., "She's a phony, but she's a real phony.") Robert -- Robert Corbett "I will discuss perfidy with scholars as rcor@u.washington.edu as if spurning kisses, I will sip Department of English the marble marrow of empire. I want sugar University of Washington but I shall never wear shame and if you call that sophistry then what is Love" - Lisa Robertson On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Gwyn McVay wrote: > Oh God. Craig Allen Conrad. I am wounded to the core by your denigration > of my attempts to participate in your holiday. Are you saying that a kiss > from my husband isn't WORTH stealing? Have you kissed him yourself to > evaluate this? If not, I submit that you are falsely evaluating my skill > as a thief. I suppose you're not going to give me any points for having > listened to the Grateful Dead's _Steal Your Face_ on that day either. I > mean, that was a sacrifice, man! Everyone knows the live bootlegs are much > better! Oh, wait. They're not bootlegs. The (surviving portion of the) > band explicitly condones them. God, I can't do anything right! > > > Gwyn McFailure > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 16:47:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: Confessions of a Failure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Gwyn, first off, it was never my holiday. second, you never EVER EVER did get what i was saying. what i was referring to, have been referring to, is your insistence that we all abide by your religious ideals. sharing them is nice, but insisting is another matter. if you want to sell yourself short and believe in what has already been mumbled and bumbled, fine, who cares? i certainly do NOT. but i DO care about your continuing guilt/sin/karma raining down on everyone. i was raised by white trash born again christians. you may think you're better than they are. but i'm here to tell you you're a lot closer to their way of living, to their way of MAKING everyone abide and obey than you may realize. one thing i will ALWAYS openly despise is a censor. now go tap your Buddhists slippers together and pray till you drop. Conrad ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 17:05:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The WOW! Kick in Texts! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The WOW! Kick in Texts! One MOTHER suppose doesn't WOW! MOTHER suppose WOW! your WOW! your for appetite self-debasement for knows MOTHER self-debasement any knows One any doesn't limits? the Thanks MOTHER stomach, a the kick dog. in A the reminder MOTHER stomach, dear, Said limits? dog. for A a reminder kick dear, in texts WOW! yours. are Not not energetically, WOW! yours. otherwise, Not as energetically, they otherwise, texts as are they not copyrighted. WOW! They WOW! you, were MOTHER so given WOW! your to 'thanks' WOW! you, are MOTHER so copyrighted. 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WOW! knowing, to Alan. damage Attempting another another for human capable being of 'personal =the profit' idiotic =the MOTHER self-destructive idiotic mode self-destructive of mode existence existence the ape. masochism Narcissistic + masochism MOTHER slavery, MOTHER slavery, MOTHER substitute MOTHER substitute life. life. ape. There 'negative have texts' been Alan. 'negative reflections texts' of Only WOW! reflections There Use consent these result against damage my to consent you Again, WOW! yourself reveal a WOW! yourself impotent petty WOW! impotent WOW! you thief. any Wasn't argument, referring Alan. argument, to Was WOW! your 'behavior'. exist Arguments only exist inside inside WOW! your brain. Avoid Avoid Arguments by 'denial'. MOTHER simpleton's MISERABLE-ME I 'denial'. am MISERABLE-ME I not am attempting thinking, MOTHER someone nor else. thinking MISERABLE-ME I MOTHER someone depicting else. WOW! depicting thinking, WOW! you_ thinking Accurately 'juzt'. precisely. that 'juzt'. WOW! All WOW! you act There out Fucking with around, Fucking with around, WOW! fucking out being, WOW! your and being primarily. causes Secondarily, damage it WOW! your causes being, other Murder unconscious is humans. marvelous, Murder ne? marvelous, is ne? intrested Nobody to intrested unconscious (your) about debates. WOW! your Nor 'references did to write MISERABLE-ME I 'references (your) zen'. Nor wrote MISERABLE-ME I ACTUALLY Which DOING. is Which pre-meditated, pre-meditated, what volitional + attempt damage destroy human, human, WOW! ie. volitional murder. attempt And to WOW! yes, held MOTHER shall me. held For responsible. being By an me. WOW! yes, Publicly. WOW! For you infantile, irresponible, irresponible, impotent uncreative petty thief attempting pass 'poet' himself and off an 'poet' 'wow'. 'artist.' pass 'wow'. off Pathetic as behavior a part. ape, MISERABLE-ME Infantile as weak. kicks Wow, itself says on ape, WOW! your kicks + itself weak. brain, babe. again. That's can't all think, right. That's in quite the all brain, right. again. self-destructing nicely, nicely, in ways. Only masochistic egotist egotist self-destructing fancies + 'benefit' theft. from When murder WOW! theft. attack When another, attack 'benefit' another, from first. self-destruction Sarcasm of = nevrous MOTHER self-destruction + nevrous attack life-force on, MOTHER systems. my Carry children, on, humanity.. children, WOW! humanity.. WOW! your bash other brains As in. the As lovely lovely has Tzara noted has + noted observed. observed. in. === ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 16:49:03 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Amazon Sales Ranking In-Reply-To: <3DA75D8C.20327.2126DB@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I queried Pitt's marketing director, Dennis Lloyd, about Amazon.com sales rankings. He informed me that after the first few thousand rankings, the system really breaks down. I'd queried him because in one day my ranking shot up from like 900,000th place to 90,000 place. Chuffed and blinded by dollar signs, I queried Dennis. He told me that the purchase of a mere one book can send your ranking shooting up to 90,000th place. It's really a differential calc problem: two books purchased in a day can send you up to 9,000th place or something. Then your ranking bobs up and down according to other purchases, and if your book is purchased thrice or something in a day, why you might whoosh up to 5,000th place. But it's all very chaotic, and the further out along the branch of integers you go, the more quantum-like your book becomes, flickering left and right along the integer line ... until, like, even if someone THINKS about your book, your ranking jumps up a few points Gabe http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html THINK ABOUT MY BOOK At 11:23 PM 10/11/2002 -0400, Joshua Berlow wrote: >At least I'm ahead of somebody! This makes me feel better. >At Amazon.com Sales Rank: 1,026,052 >I thought I was at the bottom. > >Joshua (author of Insanity Factory, available on Amazon.com) Berlow > >PS- I'd love to be an academic if anyone is hiring, but alls I got is a BA. > > >On 11 Oct 2002 at 0:03, Automatic digest processor wrote: > > > 1,051,454 Silliman, Toner, $9.50 > > 1,062,904 Killian, Argento Series > > 1,376,255 Joshua Clover, Madonna Anno Domini > > 1,334,310 Koch, Sun Out (Selected) > > 1,413,267 Piombino, The Boundary of Blur > > 1,436,653 Stacy Doris, Paramour > > 1,610,791 Sullivan/Gordon, Are Not Our Lowing Heiffers > > 1,614,814 Scalapino, Orchid Jetsam > > 1,849,826 Brian Kim Stefans, Angry Penguins > > 2,363,382 Lytle Shaw, Cable Factory > > >-- >Joshua Berlow's Website: http://www.joshuaberlow.com Gabriel Gudding Assistant Professor Department of English Illinois State University Normal, IL 61790 office 309.438.5284 home 309.828.8377 http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 18:01:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: Confessions of a Failure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Corbett" > clearly derive from Breakfast at Tiffany's, when Audrey Hepburn and George > Peppard go into Woolworth's and dash out with stolen masks. Then again, > this movie is the origin of theory of the simulacrum (i.e., "She's a > phony, but she's a real phony.") I thought the origin of theory of the simulacrum was from the A-team when Peppard says "I love it when a plan comes together" Best, Geoffrey ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 18:14:20 -0500 Reply-To: casslewis@excite.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "casslewis@excite.com" Subject: New Reading Series Starts December 4th MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > New Series > > New Writing > > > > ///a creative// > > new series of readings by some of the Bay > > Area's most talented writers > > > > plus a free chapbook at every reading > > > > > > Chaim Bertman, author of Stand-up Tragedian, > > reads from short work. > > > > Sasha Cagen, editor of To-Do List magazine, > > reads an illustrated story from her juvenilia, > > penned at 13, "The NeverEnding Nightclub", a > > story of unleashed dance fever. > > > > Stephanie Young, winner of a 2002 Bay Area > > Award from New Langton Arts, and Australian poet > > Cassie Lewis read together from a recently > > finished postcard series -- one poem a day on a > > postcard to each other for the month of > > September. > > > > Liz Worthy, author of Lotus, reads a > > tantalizing short tale of liminality. > > > > December 4th at 7:30 pm > > > > Where: 2390 Mission Street Suite #10, at 20th and > > Mission in the basement of the Bikram Mission > > Yoga Building > > > > 2 dollars > > > > > > For further information contact Jenny Bitner at > > jennybit@yahoo.com or 415-647-1015 > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up > > now. > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:43:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Amazon Sales Ranking In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021202162153.00b8f768@mail.ilstu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I am a little confused about this whole Amazon ranking business as to what it really means in terms of actual sales. (Obviously, for popular trade book publishers, high ranking figures could be used as a sales kicker - not much of a likelihood with these Amazon poety results!). It would seem a little more useful to ask your publisher the number of your books they have: a. advanced, b. sold, c. (if you want to get depressed, how many have been returned.). In my experience, unless you are in an adverse relationship with the publisher, most people will give you an up to date honest appraisal of how a book is doing between trade, library, direct sales and readings. Whatever the sales number, a rule of thumb (I use) is to multiply the sales number by two or three to determine how many people will read the book over its life time (public libraries, friends, resale to bookstores, garage sales, etc.). These secondary sales may boost ones rep and good feeling knowing that the book has "gotten around", but obviously do not give author or publisher any new sales money. As to Ron's question as to whether or not there were research firms selling sales figures on books, I would still doubt their validity. No matter what era, stated sales figures are more likely used as a marketing tool - the more inflated the more effective. (Sales can include those sold to a remainder house - not necessarily a mark of publishing failure, it's still getting out!) The questionable figures are no less true to the book industry than other questionable research information bandied about before the Market crash. I remember once somebody who worked for one of the Trade paperback folks - this was back in the seventies - telling me during the first printing of say 10, copies of a book, the publisher would have the printer put in "Second Printing", "Third Printing" etc. after the first thousand copies, three thousand copies, etc., etc. making it easily possible for the PR department to issue those Press Releases announcing that the book was already in its Third Printing. Poetry versus the big boys (the Corps) is a little like the monks versus the dukes. No matter how small the sanctuary (I guess these days that's the combination of a book and a web site and a good reading series), the congregations around the work make it worth it. Stephen Vincent on 12/2/02 2:49 PM, Gabriel Gudding at gmguddi@ILSTU.EDU wrote: > I queried Pitt's marketing director, Dennis Lloyd, about Amazon.com sales > rankings. He informed me that after the first few thousand rankings, the > system really breaks down. I'd queried him because in one day my ranking > shot up from like 900,000th place to 90,000 place. Chuffed and blinded by > dollar signs, I queried Dennis. > > He told me that the purchase of a mere one book can send your ranking > shooting up to 90,000th place. It's really a differential calc problem: two > books purchased in a day can send you up to 9,000th place or something. > Then your ranking bobs up and down according to other purchases, and if > your book is purchased thrice or something in a day, why you might whoosh > up to 5,000th place. But it's all very chaotic, and the further out along > the branch of integers you go, the more quantum-like your book becomes, > flickering left and right along the integer line ... until, like, even if > someone THINKS about your book, your ranking jumps up a few points > > Gabe > > http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html THINK ABOUT MY BOOK > > > At 11:23 PM 10/11/2002 -0400, Joshua Berlow wrote: >> At least I'm ahead of somebody! This makes me feel better. >> At Amazon.com Sales Rank: 1,026,052 >> I thought I was at the bottom. >> >> Joshua (author of Insanity Factory, available on Amazon.com) Berlow >> >> PS- I'd love to be an academic if anyone is hiring, but alls I got is a BA. >> >> >> On 11 Oct 2002 at 0:03, Automatic digest processor wrote: >> >>> 1,051,454 Silliman, Toner, $9.50 >>> 1,062,904 Killian, Argento Series >>> 1,376,255 Joshua Clover, Madonna Anno Domini >>> 1,334,310 Koch, Sun Out (Selected) >>> 1,413,267 Piombino, The Boundary of Blur >>> 1,436,653 Stacy Doris, Paramour >>> 1,610,791 Sullivan/Gordon, Are Not Our Lowing Heiffers >>> 1,614,814 Scalapino, Orchid Jetsam >>> 1,849,826 Brian Kim Stefans, Angry Penguins >>> 2,363,382 Lytle Shaw, Cable Factory >> >> >> -- >> Joshua Berlow's Website: http://www.joshuaberlow.com > > Gabriel Gudding > Assistant Professor > Department of English > Illinois State University > Normal, IL 61790 > office 309.438.5284 > home 309.828.8377 > > http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:56:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: NOTE TO SELF In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit kill me! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 13:12:23 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Blindsiding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thus am I but a dusting of snow....ahhhh Richadre de Taylore ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Jullich" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 5:56 AM Subject: Re: Blindsiding > npiombino@AAAHAWK.COM wrote: > > > harsh responses are more upsetting than the > occasional mild lapse of hip or list etiquette. < > > > > Unpleasant words are more unctuous than a blue moon's > slight omission of cool or digital manners. > > Nasty answers are more corrosive than an infrequent > faint slip in trendiness or Miss Manners' > cyber-fascism. > > Cruel replies are more hellish than the innocent > breach of state university propriety. > > A whiff of negativism is more lethal than pardonable > ignorance of the law. > > A peep of unkindness is more beastly than an unwitting > pecadillo. > > The mouth that speaks bitterly is acrid with the > stench of its foulness, but the one who transgresses > mere formality is as a spotless lamb grazing in the > field. > > Fingers that type unwelcome messages are more fiendish > and knobby than an impeccable blunderer unmindful of > i-dotting and t-crossing. > > The Prince of Darkness applauds gleefully when poets > succumb to horrific interactions, but the blameless > who stray into malapropisms accidently are as a > dusting of snow on a clean whiteness. > > Terrorists are rude in their talk; simply forgetting > the rules is forgiveable and deserves cuddling. > > An inconsiderate comeback can make the recipient's > capillaries burst more grotesquely than a slip of an > unblemished tongue. > > Abrasive retorts overexcite everyone into a fracas, > whereas a trivial violation of decorum bothers only > the thin-skinned. > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 19:35:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: after MATH (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII (Check out - Alan) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 16:33:10 -0800 From: "[]" Reply-To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" To: WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA Subject: after MATH http://www.angelfire.com/gundam/rumdan/umdun.html __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:34:33 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: Benchley, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Gary, I doubt I've ever read anything funnier than Koch's play The Gold Standard, and certainly it's apropos to bring NYS poets into the mix here, given their joyfully inclusive blurring of the high/low culture dividing line. (Speaking of blurred boundaries, I wouldn't want to let stand any implication that cultural studies can't produce nuanced formal readings -- see Barrett Watten's recent comments on the Eminem movie for proof to the contrary -- although there is a tendency in some work in that field to schematize rather than interpret & thus maltreat the object at hand (not that this is anything new under the sun).) I don't have anything of Benchley's at hand, but I did go and read that Veronica Geng piece and you're right, it's very well done -- of course this is satire, which genre has a long history of inclusion in the canon (Swift's "Modest Proposal," Pope's _The Dunciad_, Twain's _Pudd'nhead Wilson_, etc.). So the question of whether Geng would ever become, say, a permanent feature in a course on c20 satire is an open one (though laying bets is, as Eliot said, a mug's game). Now, this question of the repeated photograph is interesting, because it presents us with the kind of interpretive quandary that, I'd suggest, the rest of the piece more or less lacks. To put it crudely, the charge of art as opposed to the charge of comedy seems to act centripetally, and to give us a certain critical proportion of heavy "what the hell is going on here?" moments. "What the hell is going on here?" is the call to arms for the critic as professional explainer. Whereas you could certainly do a *formal* reading of how certain effects are produced in the Geng piece -- readers who write probably do this all the time as a reflex, I know I do -- this wouldn't be quite the same thing as using interpretation to "complete a half-explicit system," which is what literary critics, for better or worse, are trained to do. It may even be the case that the interpretive act in literary criticism always implies an answer to the question, Why does this piece exist? -- the necessary precondition being that there is no obvious answer. I can see how it could be a problem to gloss over the writing as writing, as you say in regard to Benchley. Interesting, isn't it, that comic writing itself (Benchley's comment on his own work being a perfect encapsulation/example) seems to want to be taken as gestural, disposable (another connection to New York School, at least certain poets -- O'Hara, Berrigan, Padgett). The humor no doubt depends on this. Wozza wozza, Damian <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 20:36:10 -0500 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Brian Stefans [arras.net]" Subject: Minidigital Festival PIX PIX PIX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was quite the schlub that day and really couldn't figure out how to get my digital camera to take a picture at a shutter speed suitable for the simian hand -- I've since knocked it into submission -- but you can almost make out the faces in some of these pictures of the mini digi poetry event on November 22rd at the Bowery Poetry Club. http://www.arras.net/mini_digi_pics.htm I haven't had time to write anything like a report and most likely won't, but if I get a chance to RealVideo some video I'll make a little page. In the meantime the links are still up. Paul Chan seemed to be the surprise crowd favorite, but (meiner Meinung nach) it was a pretty tight show all round. http://www.arras.net/mini_digi_fest.htm Thanks -- ! -- hear endeth my excessive spamming. Cheers, Brian ____ A R R A S: new media poetry and poetics http://www.arras.net Hinka cumfae cashore canfeh, Ahl hityi oar hied 'caw taughtie! "Do you think just because I come from Carronshore I cannot fight? I shall hit you over the head with a cold potatoe." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 01:13:11 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: Dear Maria Damon who calls the kettle black MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Mr Conrad Would you mind defining _middle class_ in this sense; you seem to be aware of a meaning which is not in my dictionary I look forward to your reply L ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Allen Conrad" To: Sent: 02 December 2002 20:38 Subject: Dear Maria Damon who calls the kettle black | all this middle class tea party language is making me sleepy. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:42:56 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: pure humor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I very much like Damian's point re comedy vis a vis text/audience&culture and the inertia of New Critical ideas the comic as something that is best spoken from a rhetorical standpoint rather than a monologic standopint. Aaron, A few points. I'm still having a hard time understanding why you Aaron say the comic cannot be canonical. This sounds to me like an old southern-sounding bromide ("comedy ages and is therefore not for the ages," as if tragedy or melodrama didn't age). Arent some of the oldest things in the canon comedies: Plautus. Aristophanes. And what of Chaucer. Rabelais. These are all canonical figures who wrote for laughs. Edward Lear. Lewis Carroll. Ogden Nash. Jesus Christ, i'd say most of literature is comic. Maria already mentioned Sterne.--Anyway my point is that it's interesting to note, as M. H. Abrams did years ago, that we still often use theater terms to discuss comedy, most frequently using the term for works of the stage, though this is less true now-a-days -- and this curiosity might in some way go toward Damian's point re audience/culture versus text -- that we've an institutional habit of thinking of comedy as nontextual. (Might, too, be why we consider the journalistic humor "purer" humor: it being dialogic and daily and responsively aware of audience). Also Aaron what do you mean by positing "pure humor" and wondering about humorists who never lapse in "serious mode"? The premise of the question seems to be built upon the same fallacy that Chris Stroffolino's nemesis and Gary's other person were popping off with: that humor is not serious. With the weak exception of the arbitrary pun, I know of no humor that does not touch upon very grave issues. Humor is incredibly grave. That's the point about it. There is no such thing as "just a joke." Often I think that the word "serious" (as in "literature") is code for "suffering". "Serious" literature focuses on suffering -- and it's suffering that's most often co-opted by the bourgeoisie. Comedy is about enduring, not suffering. That's why there's very little representation of pain in comedy. How the serious and the comic came to be seen as opposites is one of the curiosities I'd like to read a good book about. [of the 3 most discussed theories of humor [superiority, taboo, inconguity], it is the humor of incongruity, in which we find "empty" puns, mixes of sounds and meaning that raise a chuckle because they're new and incongruous: this is the most "empty" -- that is, the humor of the arbitrary pun possesses the least amount of content related to human contest and struggle]. The other part of this is how comedy relates to class issues: a great deal of comedy has to do with superiority -- with an artist purposefully debasing her/himself or her/his subject or art -- to provide that delightful shock of superiority to the audience -- that laughter which arises from a sense of suddenly feeling superior to someone (Hobbe's burst of "sudden glory.") Clowns do this for us. Ashbery is a great clown. So is Bernadette Mayer. Creeley. Wanda Coleman. Denise Duhamel. Alice Notley. Mary Ruefle. -- they all do this brilliantly. They (sometimes) elevate us by appearing to debase themselves. Wit however is the humor of debasement, of debasing another -- and I for my money Rachel Loden does this very well: her digs at the terrible pitiful Nixon make me feel cozy and happy. And Gary, jeepers isn't our Miles of the Little Horses, our Flann, in in in, and not simply on the tails of Irish Studies programs. Isn't O'Brien a goldenboy (maybe the goldenboy) of metafiction? -- his fame and academic use is anchored just as equally in his status as a writer of metafiction as it is in his identity as an Irish national. I frankly can't name one of his books that's not comic, even _The Hard Life_ is funny. His column in _The Irish Times_ is well collected in _The Best of Miles_ (Dalkey Archive's got a great edition out)-- and nearly all of that ranges from the satirical to the farcical. Better ask Mairead about O'Brien, though: she knows much more about him than I do (not hard). But I'll stop on him, beyond confessing that At Swim-Two-Birds is my favorite book. Yours with great pedantry Gabe Gabriel Gudding Department of English Illinois State University Normal, IL 61790 office 309.438.5284 home 309.828.8377 http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 22:42:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: LMJ Subject: new book by kari edwards Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subpress Collective of New York and Hawaii announces the publication of a day in the life of p. by kari edwards 104 pages $12 ISBN 1-930068-18-2 Kate Bornstein, author of Gender Outlaw, says: "a day in the life of p. is a dizzying non-stop read that rakes the reader through an urban world at once timeless yet contemporary, poetic yet rough-hewn. There are enough possible impossibilities and impossibly co-existing opposites at work in this book that the read itself is both titillating and highly spiritual. Three cheers for kari Edwards, the 21st century successor to James Joyce, Gertrude Stein, and William S. Burroughs." kari edwards is a poet, novelist, artist, and gender activist. Sie was the winner of New Langton Art's Bay Area Award in literature in 2002. Hir first book, post/(pink,) was published by Scarlet Press in 2000. edwards currently lives in San Francisco. Subpress collective books are available through Small Press Distribution in Berkeley, California: 1-800-869-7553 or www.spdbooks.org More information about subpress collective can be found at www.nyspp.com/lisa/subpress.htm For information about kari edwards' reading and performance schedule for the year 2003, contact Lisa Jarnot at 917-620-2917 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 22:57:19 -0500 Reply-To: gmcvay@patriot.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: Confessions of a Failure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Craig Allen Conrad and other first names, At the reasonable request of other listmembers, I'm going to stop now, and simply observe: My, you do get yourself all in a lather. It is really peculiar watching you get so incredibly... incensed. Get it? Har! See, perhaps you've heard Emma Goldman's quote: "If I can't dance, I don't want to be part of your revolution." In this situation, if your revolution cannot stand up to a little goofing and wordplay, how strong is it? Are you really committed to spending the rest of your life doing the Groucho role in Duck Soup? Anyway, enjoy it, whatever it is you do. (Do you like poetry?) I couldn't find any Buddhist slippers at Wal-Mart (I am SO not gonna play "my white trash is trashier than your white trash"), so I hope these fuzzy ones will suffice. Perhaps you should try some acid -- drop until you pray? But you're quite right, there's no place like home, there's no place like home, there's no place like home. Yours eternally (now isn't THAT a scary thought?), Gwyn ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 23:19:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: pure humor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline All I can say, Gabe and Gary, is that it's Myles. Mairead >>> gmguddi@ILSTU.EDU 12/02/02 22:48 PM >>> I very much like Damian's point re comedy vis a vis text/audience&culture and the inertia of New Critical ideas the comic as something that is best spoken from a rhetorical standpoint rather than a monologic standopint. Aaron, A few points. I'm still having a hard time understanding why you Aaron say the comic cannot be canonical. This sounds to me like an old southern-sounding bromide ("comedy ages and is therefore not for the ages," as if tragedy or melodrama didn't age). Arent some of the oldest things in the canon comedies: Plautus. Aristophanes. And what of Chaucer. Rabelais. These are all canonical figures who wrote for laughs. Edward Lear. Lewis Carroll. Ogden Nash. Jesus Christ, i'd say most of literature is comic. Maria already mentioned Sterne.--Anyway my point is that it's interesting to note, as M. H. Abrams did years ago, that we still often use theater terms to discuss comedy, most frequently using the term for works of the stage, though this is less true now-a-days -- and this curiosity might in some way go toward Damian's point re audience/culture versus text -- that we've an institutional habit of thinking of comedy as nontextual. (Might, too, be why we consider the journalistic humor "purer" humor: it being dialogic and daily and responsively aware of audience). Also Aaron what do you mean by positing "pure humor" and wondering about humorists who never lapse in "serious mode"? The premise of the question seems to be built upon the same fallacy that Chris Stroffolino's nemesis and Gary's other person were popping off with: that humor is not serious. With the weak exception of the arbitrary pun, I know of no humor that does not touch upon very grave issues. Humor is incredibly grave. That's the point about it. There is no such thing as "just a joke." Often I think that the word "serious" (as in "literature") is code for "suffering". "Serious" literature focuses on suffering -- and it's suffering that's most often co-opted by the bourgeoisie. Comedy is about enduring, not suffering. That's why there's very little representation of pain in comedy. How the serious and the comic came to be seen as opposites is one of the curiosities I'd like to read a good book about. [of the 3 most discussed theories of humor [superiority, taboo, inconguity], it is the humor of incongruity, in which we find "empty" puns, mixes of sounds and meaning that raise a chuckle because they're new and incongruous: this is the most "empty" -- that is, the humor of the arbitrary pun possesses the least amount of content related to human contest and struggle]. The other part of this is how comedy relates to class issues: a great deal of comedy has to do with superiority -- with an artist purposefully debasing her/himself or her/his subject or art -- to provide that delightful shock of superiority to the audience -- that laughter which arises from a sense of suddenly feeling superior to someone (Hobbe's burst of "sudden glory.") Clowns do this for us. Ashbery is a great clown. So is Bernadette Mayer. Creeley. Wanda Coleman. Denise Duhamel. Alice Notley. Mary Ruefle. -- they all do this brilliantly. They (sometimes) elevate us by appearing to debase themselves. Wit however is the humor of debasement, of debasing another -- and I for my money Rachel Loden does this very well: her digs at the terrible pitiful Nixon make me feel cozy and happy. And Gary, jeepers isn't our Miles of the Little Horses, our Flann, in in in, and not simply on the tails of Irish Studies programs. Isn't O'Brien a goldenboy (maybe the goldenboy) of metafiction? -- his fame and academic use is anchored just as equally in his status as a writer of metafiction as it is in his identity as an Irish national. I frankly can't name one of his books that's not comic, even _The Hard Life_ is funny. His column in _The Irish Times_ is well collected in _The Best of Miles_ (Dalkey Archive's got a great edition out)-- and nearly all of that ranges from the satirical to the farcical. Better ask Mairead about O'Brien, though: she knows much more about him than I do (not hard). But I'll stop on him, beyond confessing that At Swim-Two-Birds is my favorite book. Yours with great pedantry Gabe Gabriel Gudding Department of English Illinois State University Normal, IL 61790 office 309.438.5284 home 309.828.8377 http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 22:32:36 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: SWAN LAKE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the bad spirits work for kings the kings work for poets with flashy shoes those shoes could only work on you you work on figuring out who works for light light beams work for bloody lore three days lore works for the next day the next day will work for global control (CU) Cipher Unknown works to feed the frail Fairy Tales those Tales work to stay live on the set the set works on predicting the weather the weather works on diplomatic immunity diplomacy works on staying provincial the provinces work getting the new prison built prisoners work on staying alive life works on my last nerve nerves work on staying poetic poetics work on reminiscing over you reminiscences work on building themselves by themselves them that wants to can always work for cake and the name of this poem is SWAN LAKE _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 18:02:49 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Amazon Sales Ranking MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Probably the entire system is designed to be as obcure as possible so some little fat man in a hut in Central Siberia with a beard full of lice is taking the cash and hoarding it, like Silas Marner, in a hole in his cottage floor: but the real danger is when the book is bought mistakenly by a drunk who thinks its a meal to be consumed: this puts (the system) into a terrible panic as indeed very complex algebra is used to compute (read guestimate) the probability of x other drunks buying your book as a posssiblity to be consumed (or pissed on as the case may or may not be) or as Derrida and all them guys are wont to say - as "the other"...if its bought AS "the other" you're in big trouble: the numbers dance and jigger and gyrate like madmen....and then it gets very dicey when people buy a book of a different title which they think is your book....the ratings go into hyper drive and there's is then no hope for anyone. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gabriel Gudding" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 11:49 AM Subject: Amazon Sales Ranking > I queried Pitt's marketing director, Dennis Lloyd, about Amazon.com sales > rankings. He informed me that after the first few thousand rankings, the > system really breaks down. I'd queried him because in one day my ranking > shot up from like 900,000th place to 90,000 place. Chuffed and blinded by > dollar signs, I queried Dennis. > > He told me that the purchase of a mere one book can send your ranking > shooting up to 90,000th place. It's really a differential calc problem: two > books purchased in a day can send you up to 9,000th place or something. > Then your ranking bobs up and down according to other purchases, and if > your book is purchased thrice or something in a day, why you might whoosh > up to 5,000th place. But it's all very chaotic, and the further out along > the branch of integers you go, the more quantum-like your book becomes, > flickering left and right along the integer line ... until, like, even if > someone THINKS about your book, your ranking jumps up a few points > > Gabe > > http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html THINK ABOUT MY BOOK > > > At 11:23 PM 10/11/2002 -0400, Joshua Berlow wrote: > >At least I'm ahead of somebody! This makes me feel better. > >At Amazon.com Sales Rank: 1,026,052 > >I thought I was at the bottom. > > > >Joshua (author of Insanity Factory, available on Amazon.com) Berlow > > > >PS- I'd love to be an academic if anyone is hiring, but alls I got is a BA. > > > > > >On 11 Oct 2002 at 0:03, Automatic digest processor wrote: > > > > > 1,051,454 Silliman, Toner, $9.50 > > > 1,062,904 Killian, Argento Series > > > 1,376,255 Joshua Clover, Madonna Anno Domini > > > 1,334,310 Koch, Sun Out (Selected) > > > 1,413,267 Piombino, The Boundary of Blur > > > 1,436,653 Stacy Doris, Paramour > > > 1,610,791 Sullivan/Gordon, Are Not Our Lowing Heiffers > > > 1,614,814 Scalapino, Orchid Jetsam > > > 1,849,826 Brian Kim Stefans, Angry Penguins > > > 2,363,382 Lytle Shaw, Cable Factory > > > > > >-- > >Joshua Berlow's Website: http://www.joshuaberlow.com > > Gabriel Gudding > Assistant Professor > Department of English > Illinois State University > Normal, IL 61790 > office 309.438.5284 > home 309.828.8377 > > http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 00:14:42 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: pure humor In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:19 PM 12/2/2002 -0500, Mairead Byrne wrote: >All I can say, Gabe and Gary, is that it's Myles. >Mairead Thanks, Mairead. Also, Hobbes, not Hobbe. For some years after his cataract surgery, my father would address me in writing as "Gary." Once, his salutation read "Dear Garcia." ps, as per the below, I mean to say that clowns "provide that delightful shock of superiority to, as in for, the audience...." "an artist purposefully debasing her/himself or her/his subject or art -- to provide that delightful shock of superiority to the audience -- that laughter which arises from a sense of suddenly feeling superior to someone (Hobbe's burst of "sudden glory.") Clowns do this for us." > >>> gmguddi@ILSTU.EDU 12/02/02 22:48 PM >>> >I very much like Damian's point re comedy vis a vis >text/audience&culture >and the inertia of New Critical ideas the comic as something that is >best >spoken from a rhetorical standpoint rather than a monologic >standopint. Aaron, A few points. > >I'm still having a hard time understanding why you Aaron say the comic >cannot be canonical. This sounds to me like an old southern-sounding >bromide ("comedy ages and is therefore not for the ages," as if tragedy >or >melodrama didn't age). Arent some of the oldest things in the canon >comedies: Plautus. Aristophanes. And what of Chaucer. Rabelais. These >are >all canonical figures who wrote for laughs. Edward Lear. Lewis Carroll. >Ogden Nash. Jesus Christ, i'd say most of literature is comic. Maria >already mentioned Sterne.--Anyway my point is that it's interesting to >note, as M. H. Abrams did years ago, that we still often use theater >terms >to discuss comedy, most frequently using the term for works of the >stage, >though this is less true now-a-days -- and this curiosity might in some >way >go toward Damian's point re audience/culture versus text -- that we've >an >institutional habit of thinking of comedy as nontextual. (Might, too, be >why we consider the journalistic humor "purer" humor: it being dialogic >and >daily and responsively aware of audience). > >Also Aaron what do you mean by positing "pure humor" and wondering about >humorists who never lapse in "serious mode"? The premise of the question >seems to be built upon the same fallacy that Chris Stroffolino's nemesis >and Gary's other person were popping off with: that humor is not >serious. >With the weak exception of the arbitrary pun, I know of no humor that >does >not touch upon very grave issues. Humor is incredibly grave. That's the >point about it. There is no such thing as "just a joke." Often I think >that the word "serious" (as in "literature") is code for "suffering". >"Serious" literature focuses on suffering -- and it's suffering that's >most >often co-opted by the bourgeoisie. Comedy is about enduring, not >suffering. >That's why there's very little representation of pain in comedy. How the >serious and the comic came to be seen as opposites is one of the >curiosities I'd like to read a good book about. [of the 3 most discussed >theories of humor [superiority, taboo, inconguity], it is the humor of >incongruity, in which we find "empty" puns, mixes of sounds and meaning >that raise a chuckle because they're new and incongruous: this is the >most >"empty" -- that is, the humor of the arbitrary pun possesses the least >amount of content related to human contest and struggle]. > >The other part of this is how comedy relates to class issues: a great >deal >of comedy has to do with superiority -- with an artist purposefully >debasing her/himself or her/his subject or art -- to provide that >delightful shock of superiority to the audience -- that laughter which >arises from a sense of suddenly feeling superior to someone (Hobbe's >burst >of "sudden glory.") Clowns do this for us. Ashbery is a great clown. So >is >Bernadette Mayer. Creeley. Wanda Coleman. Denise Duhamel. Alice Notley. >Mary Ruefle. -- they all do this brilliantly. They (sometimes) elevate >us >by appearing to debase themselves. Wit however is the humor of >debasement, >of debasing another -- and I for my money Rachel Loden does this very >well: >her digs at the terrible pitiful Nixon make me feel cozy and happy. > >And Gary, jeepers isn't our Miles of the Little Horses, our Flann, in in >in, and not simply on the tails of Irish Studies programs. Isn't O'Brien >a >goldenboy (maybe the goldenboy) of metafiction? -- his fame and academic >use is anchored just as equally in his status as a writer of metafiction >as >it is in his identity as an Irish national. I frankly can't name one of >his >books that's not comic, even _The Hard Life_ is funny. His column in >_The >Irish Times_ is well collected in _The Best of Miles_ (Dalkey Archive's >got >a great edition out)-- and nearly all of that ranges from the satirical >to >the farcical. Better ask Mairead about O'Brien, though: she knows much >more >about him than I do (not hard). But I'll stop on him, beyond confessing >that At Swim-Two-Birds is my favorite book. > >Yours with great pedantry >Gabe > > > > > > > > > > > >Gabriel Gudding >Department of English >Illinois State University >Normal, IL 61790 >office 309.438.5284 >home 309.828.8377 > >http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html Gabriel Gudding Assistant Professor Department of English Illinois State University Normal, IL 61790 office 309.438.5284 home 309.828.8377 http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 00:24:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Skinner Subject: of stats & Ann-Marie Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Ron Silliman writes: 3) When I visited Ann-Marie Albiach in 1988, Joey Simas & Robert Kocik were in the process of preparing her for a reading that she had agreed to give later that year. So I doubt that it's really been 20 years since she's given a reading. Now, it may well be that she has not been out of her apartment since that reading in 1988, but she's neither the first nor only poet to have this condition. OK, so I exaggerate, it's only been 14 years. At any rate, there's no other recording of Albiach in existence that I know of. & anyone who knows her work might be curious to hear how all that white space translates. Anne-Marie does leave her apartment from time to time, by the way. JS ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 22:51:38 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Rathmann Subject: writing habits Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "I advised Chambers, and would advise every young man beginning to compose, to do it as fast as he can, to get a habit of having his mind to start promptly." "The Poet Laureate said he had no idea how or why it helped him but he insisted: 'It works. I've been doing it for years and it's become habitual. It's my Lemsip-inspired trance, and I can only say thank heavens it's not laudanum or absinthe'." "Stein's habit of working is methodical and deliberate. She always works at night in the silence." "At age six, Hemingway started jotting down his daily activities in a small journal. This was a habit that he carried throughout his life." "Beckett then completed a study of Proust which eventually led him to believe that habit was the 'cancer of time.'" "She only slept with men she wasn¹t married to, avoiding, in her sex life, all forms of habit and routine except that one." "His dictionary is well-thumbed, and as Kingsley writes: 'The habit of consulting a dictionary is largely dying out'." "Almost immediately he began to pick up Pound's habit of expressing himself, as McLuhan would later phrase it, 'according to the Aristotelean principle of metaphor'." "His candid acknowledgments of faithlessness, like his openness about his habit of masturbating to pornography, made it clear to would-be wives that he was promised to no one but himself." "An Afro-American poet who joined the army, went to Korea and was injured with shrapnel. He became addicted to heroin to control the pain and resorted to armed robbery to support his habit." "In 1961 he tried to break his drinking habit and rediscover his writing talents with a solitary nature retreat in Bixby Canyon, Big Sur." "He provoked a violent antipathy as he strode to and forth . . . . I could not do otherwise ­ could I? ­ than mistake him for an Irish parody of the poetry that I had seen all my life strutting its rhythmic way in the alleys of the Luxembourg Gardens, preening its rhymes by the fountains, excessive in habit and gait." "His habitual mood was cheerful, often gay, but he had experience of the depressions of the poetic temperament and the anxieties of the sensitive fancy." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 07:13:16 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Mal Waldron MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Today we received this very sad news from Hugo de Craen: Dear friends =20 Last night Mal Waldron died in a hospital in Brussels. He was quite sick lately. In September they diagnosed cancer. Mal remained optimistic and made a lot of plans for the future. His death yesterday still came unexpectedly. We will miss him, his music and his jokes. Please inform others which are not on this mailing list. =20 Hugo de Craen (Hugo.DeCraen@ufsia.ac.be) Now, his quote in his last record seems despairingly lucid: "measured against eternity / our life span is very short" Vincent Lain=E9=20 Senators: Steve Lacy's music modus operandi=20 http://stevelacymusic.org/=20 email: senators@free.fr ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 07:14:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Mal Waldron In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This morning this sad news in via the _Senators_ list (that's the Steve=20= Lacy list, nothing to do with an old baseball team or current DC=20 cowards): > Dear friends > > Last night Mal Waldron died in a hospital in Brussels. He was quite=20 > sick > lately. In September they diagnosed cancer. Mal remained optimistic=20 > and made a > lot of plans for the future. His death yesterday still came=20 > unexpectedly. We > will miss him, his music and his jokes. > > Please inform others which are not on this mailing list. > > Hugo de Craen (Hugo.DeCraen@ufsia.ac.be) Now, his quote in his last record seems despairingly lucid: "measured against eternity / our life span is very short" Check out some of his recordings: http://www.fantasyjazz.com/catalog/waldron_m_cat.html Pierre ___________________________________________________________ + Freedom for the people of the Social Forum arrested in Italy /=20 Libert=E0 per i compagni del Social Forum arrestati in Italia ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a = crime. Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere = Else. c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 = -- Thomas Bernhard email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:25:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Thompson Subject: Field and Thompson Reading Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" For those in New York City and its environs... Miranda Field (author of Swallow, Houghton Mifflin 2002) and Tom Thompson (author of Live Feed, Alice James Books, 2001) will read their twitchy new poems Monday, Dec. 9 at 7:30 PM at Teachers & Writers Collaborative 5 Union Square West Please come ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:30:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nate Dorward Subject: The Gig 12 announcement Comments: To: lexiconjury@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit THE GIG #12 -- November 2002 (more or less) -- the usual 64pp stapled chapbook -- is now out, having escaped from the orbit of a particularly mulish laser printer. As usual, it features exciting & diverse poetry from both sides of the Atlantic. Kenneth Goldsmith contributes a Socratic dialogue on the question: "How is Curme Pronounced?" The Three Little Heretics wander deep into the Bush in their travelogue, "Critical Path": "It began with something innocuous somewhere off the map in Tennessee. . . ." Stately pavanes, brisk bursts of linguistic static & urgent missives from the past and present are also included from the pens of Sean Bonney, Andrew Brewerton, Chris Goode, Peter Larkin, Geraldine Monk, Pete Smith & Susan Wheeler. The issue is rounded off by a 23-page bumper crop of reviews: - Will Montgomery on Joan Retallack - Peter Robinson on Ric Caddel - David Kennedy on Rae Armantrout - Nate Dorward on Peter Larkin, Tom Pickard, Mark Salerno, Geraldine Monk, Drew Milne, Andrew Levy, current magazines from the US & UK, &c. * FOR A COPY OF ISSUE 12 (or any other single issue): - Within Canada: single issue: $7 Cdn ($12 for institutions) - Within US: $5 US (institutions $10 US) - Overseas: £3.50 or $8.50 Cdn (double those prices for institutions) FOR A SUBSCRIPTION TO ISSUES 12 + 13/14 (the forthcoming Tom Raworth double-issue): - Within Canada: $25 Cdn (institutions $50) - Within US: $20 US (institutions $40 US) - Overseas: £16.50/$40 Cdn (double those prices for institutions) FOR A SUBSCRIPTION TO ANY THREE REGULAR ISSUES (i.e. excluding the Peter Riley issue, #4/5, & the Raworth issue, #13/14): - Within Canada: $18 Cdn (institutions $36) - Within US: $14 US (institutions $28 US) - Overseas: £10 or $24 Cdn (institutions £20 or $48 Cdn) The best method of payment is a simple cheque, in your country's currency, made out to "Nate Dorward". Write: Nate Dorward 109 Hounslow Ave, Willowdale, ON, M2N 2B1, Canada email: ndorward@sprint.ca web: http://pages.sprint.ca/ndorward/files/ * Other books are forthcoming soon, including Maggie O'Sullivan's _Palace of Reptiles_, her long-awaited 1990s collection; a volume of interviews & documents (3rd in The Gig's regular series of poetics documents publications); & of course, the Tom Raworth volume, which is set to appear on April 1st, 2003. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:57:50 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Re: writing habits Comments: To: Andrew Rathmann In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII are those habits from Marksen's _Reader's Block_? a fine book. kevin gnomes without frontiers -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So, Henry Kissenger is charge of the 9/11 probe! That's like putting Robert Mugabe in charge of the Department of Agriculture. from "Get Your War On" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 11:37:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Gallagher Subject: Irma Cavat MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Does anyone have contact information for the California painter Irma Cavat? Kevin Gallagher ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 11:51:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: Confessions of a Failure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit is it for my benefit that you're pretending it was a joke? don't bother. it was fun, no matter who was joking, or who was pretending it was a joke. there are those who believe in the power of words and those who believe in the power of the humor of words the lather you describe was the 2nd and ANYONE who DARES to insult my mother again i SWEAR to god i'll beat you to it! my mother THRIVES on insult! she's probably the incredible hulk this morning. Conrad p.s. Gwyn, if you can't find the right slippers i may have to do a little Buddhist drag in your honor when i find them first In a message dated 12/2/2002 10:57:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, gmcvay@PATRIOT.NET writes: > > > Dear Craig Allen Conrad and other first names, > > At the reasonable request of other listmembers, I'm going to stop now, > and simply observe: My, you do get yourself all in a lather. It is > really peculiar watching you get so incredibly... incensed. Get it? Har! > > See, perhaps you've heard Emma Goldman's quote: "If I can't dance, I > don't want to be part of your revolution." In this situation, if your > revolution cannot stand up to a little goofing and wordplay, how strong > is it? Are you really committed to spending the rest of your life doing > the Groucho role in Duck Soup? > > Anyway, enjoy it, whatever it is you do. (Do you like poetry?) I > couldn't find any Buddhist slippers at Wal-Mart (I am SO not gonna play > "my white trash is trashier than your white trash"), so I hope these > fuzzy ones will suffice. Perhaps you should try some acid -- drop until > you pray? But you're quite right, there's no place like > home, there's no > place like home, there's no place like home. > > Yours eternally (now isn't THAT a scary thought?), > Gwyn ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 13:25:51 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: HPU poetry scholarships MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII this is amazing. too amazing? ------ Forwarded Message From: "Catherine Sustana" Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 13:44:27 -1000 To: Subject: HPU poetry scholarships Aloha, I am writing to let you know that Hawai'i Pacific University is holding a FREE poetry contest for high school seniors worldwide this year. Two winners will receive 4-year, 50% scholarships to attend HPU. The winners can major in whatever they want. Winners and finalists will also have their poems published on HPU's website. The contest deadline is January 10, 2003. Details and entry forms can be found at www.hpu.edu/poetry. Hawai'i Pacific University is a fully-accredited, non-profit university. I'd appreciate your passing the word along to anyone at the Teachers & Writers Collaborative who may be interested. Thank you! Sincerely, Catherine Sustana, Ph.D. English Program Chair ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:17:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: conflict's powers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit years ago i came across the book THE GRASSHOPPER'S MAN by Rosalie Moore (later to be known as Rosalie Moore Brown). the book won the Yale Younger Poets Award in 1949 with W. H. Auden as the judge. THE GRASSHOPPER'S MAN was refreshing, and felt vital in its experimentation. i made a copy of the book, as it was out of print. at the time i failed to copy the foreword by Auden, but of course the WHY of his choice itched at my ear. Auden never appeared to be the type to lean with the avant-garde, in fact he seemed hellbent on defending convention, or, so it had seemed. it wasn't until i lost a page of the manuscript that i ordered it again from interlibrary loan to copy it. it was the first time i read Auden's foreword, the first time i realized how very wrong i was about the judge of the 1949 competition. he wrote about the power of conflict in poetry, among poets, among words themselves. one of my favorite passages was this: "...for poetry flourishes when the opponents are determined and evenly matched but, if any party gains too complete a victory and succeeds in suppressing its rivals, poetry invariably declines." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:24:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Steal This Poem Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 13:28:48 -0800 > From: Robert Corbett > Subject: Re: Confessions of a Failure > > Gwyn, > > Just go and boost a pair of sunglasses or shampoo at your local Rite-Aid. Yeah, while reciting MIDRASH ON OWNING: Opium poppy, butt of cigarette stirring on pavement in the breeze-before-snow: these things might be a woman's ashy hands, wrist-skin chapped and ringed- she curls her many-jointed fingers, feeling in the cracks for one or two buttons from an antique baby shoe. Her statue rides the uptown subway, hands carved with soapstone veins-ma semblable, ma soeur- scratching where the bricks bear a stain, an infestation of angels. (from Brother Ikon copyright, 1996 by Gwyn McVay) -My late contribution to steal something day.- Nick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:37:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: albert mobilio and punctuation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I seem to remember some talk about Mobilio's _Me With Animal Towering_ on the list a few months back...anyway, I'm wondering how folks respond to his use of punctuation in the book's title poem?--specifically the use of capitalization and the period as word-incision. For example: sew.n like a flag or: disturb: ing lubrication. or: Just fibrilla.tion There's something here which feels a bit more harsh to me than if he'd have used the more common parenthetical morphemic shiv(i.e. sew(n)) Although, this approach avoids any sort of hierarchy, as "sew(n)" suggests "sew" to be on the sort of field of composition and "(n)" to be over-though subservient-to it. I think it's interesting how his last book's title poem/section (_The Geographics_) started with the phrase (this might not be right as I don't have the book here w/me at work): And what a cremation that was. And "Me With Animal Towering" (which I do have at work w/me) starts with: So go cremator. This poem almost feels to me although it's a distillation of the Geographics sequence, stripping it of the prose syntax, almost a kind of ghost etching of the old work...just a thought.... noah _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:54:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tim Shaner Subject: anti-war poetry reading Comments: To: CORE-L@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Comments: cc: ENGRAD-LIST@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rust Talks presents an ANTI-WAR POETRY READING/think tank (what IS anti-war poetry?) 8PM Thurs 12/5 Rust Belt Books 202 Allen Street Buffalo, NY featuring Christopher Alexander Sarah Campbell Barbara Cole Thom Donovan Kristen Gallagher Gordon Hadfield Nick Lawrence Michael Rosendal Tim Shaner Jonathan Skinner Sasha Steensen and anybody else who wishes to contribute their voice(s) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 13:22:17 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: pure humor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gabriel, This is all very helpful & encouraging. I don't believe in a hard literary canon, but I do recognize a soft 'defacto' canon, defined essentially by what gets taught/studied in high-school/undergrad, and then also by what is generally embraced by literary culture. That is, writing that people are pretty sure will be around for awhile, that demonstrates the principles of its genre, teaches us something about human experience, etc. So, to paraphrase my view as that "the comic cannot be canonical" is inaccurate-- perhaps "the comic is usually not canonical, and I'd like to know why." Also, I know there are tons of funny writers that get studied in high-school/college-- Chaucer is one of my favorite examples. I also love Camus for his humor. My term "pure humor" was ill-advised. Let's say, writing that is taught/studied for its humorous quality primarily. So that excludes Nash and Lear. I can only really think of Swift, and in Swift it's satire. I can also think of Twain, but his shorter more antic pieces (that are fucking funny, by the way-- like "How I Edited an Agricultural Paper Once") are *rarely* taught. How about Moliere? I love Moliere, but that's theatrical comedy. I'm looking for poetry/fiction/essay that lives primarily by its humor-- Ogden Nash does, but he's not studied. How about Wallace Stevens? I can't say the humor is ever taught as the primary mode or feature of Stevens--if it's taught at all. When I read "Call the roller of big cigars" in college lit, I was snickering in the back of the classroom, but the professor explicating the poem certainly didn't foreground Stevens's jokery. Was it even mentioned? Here's some great "pure humor" (bear with the term) -- Jacques Tati's "Mon Oncle," which I watched last night. The Marx Bros' "Horse Feathers." Woody Allen's "Bananas." Or sound recordings-- Bob & Ray, Steve Martin. But again, these are theatrical pieces. In written lit, then: Allen's three early books, the Josh Billings books I've been reading (e.g. _Hiz Sayings_), Bill Bryson's travelogues, Mike Topp, Bierce's _Devil's Dictionary_, Crockett's autobiography, of course Nash and Lear. So if "pure humor" is a bad term, how about "comic literature"-- by which I mean, those writings which serve the primary purpose of making their reader *laugh*. Laughter is close to ecstasy, and I am aware that it's a nuanced response. Nothing is "just comedy"; you won't catch me buying into the fallacy that humor is not serious. I am looking for comic literature, embraced and taught as such. By the way, interesting you mention Ashbery-- my interest in this topic roots back to an Ashbery reading in a theater at the New School in 1994. It was a snazzy affair; the wine afterward was actually good. My friend Brian and I got there early and sat near the front. The crowd was upper-crusty, black clad Manhattanites, out for (it appeared) an evening of high culture. If memory serves, some of them had monocles. Anyway, Brian and i started laughing at the second or third poem, and we basically didn't stop laughing the whole way through. There were spells of teary silence, exhaustion. But pretty soon J.A. would start into a new poem, (from memory, sorry) "So this slave comes / and brings me tea" or "Sometimes it's more time than we care to be, / with the others. Sometimes its interesting." Thing is, no one else was laughing. The humor either flew above their radar, or their radar wasn't tuned to "funny." We were the subject of a number of repulsed glances. It's personal, Gabriel. Humor is serious. It must be taken seriously, or else! Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:12:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Sticks and Stones Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit It keeps occurring to me lately that virtually all political theories, and not a few moral philosophies, once taken to an extreme, right or left, find a way of justifying hurting other people. I wonder what the motivating factor it is that causes people to want to confront other people harshly? Sometimes in moods like this I turn to Emerson or William Hazlitt (1778-1830). For some reason often, especially when visiting used bookstores around Boston, I've left with some worn out tome of Hazlitt's essays under my arm. He has a way of talking about people that fascinates me. "The pleasure of hating," he writes,"like a poisonous mineral, eats into the heart of religion and turns it to rankling spleen and bigotry; it makes patriotism an excuse for carrying fire, pestilence, and famine into other lands; it leaves to virtue nothing but the spirit of censoriousness, and a narrow, jealous, inquisitorial watchfulness over the actions and motives of others. What have the different sects, creeds, doctrines in religion been but so many pretexts set up for men to wrangle ,to quarrel, to tear one another in pieces about, like a target as a mark to shoot at?...Does the love of virtue denote any wish to discover or amend our own faults? No, but it atones for an obstinate adherence to our own vices by the most virulent intolerance to human frailties. This principle is of a most universal application...It inclines us to resent the wrongs of others, it impels us to be as impatient of their prosperity. We revenge injuries;: we repay benefits with ingratitude. Even our strongest partialities and likings soon take this turn...We hate old friends; we hate old books; we hate old opinions; and at last we come to hate ourselves....We take dislike to our favourite books, after a time, for the same reason...The popularity of the most successful writers operates to wean us from them, by the cant and fuss that is made about them, by hearing their names everlastingly repeated....In private life do we not see hypocrisy, servility, selfishness, folly and impudence succeed, while modesty shrinks from the encounter, and merit is trodden under foot?...Seeing all this as I do, and unraveling the web of human life into its various threads of meanness, spite, cowardice, want of feeling, and want of understanding, of indifference towards others, and ignorance of ourselves...mistaken as I have been in my public and private hopes, calculating others from myself, and calculating wrong; always disappointed where I placed most reliance; the dupe of friendship, and the fool of love;- have I not reason to hate and despise myself? Indeed I do, and not having hated and despised the world enough." There is often something strangely timely, insightful and consoling in the writing of Hazlitt. At times I've thought he is one of the true precursors in the efforts to understand many of the complexities of psychology to be found only much later in his century and ours. Nick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 18:35:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Kuszai" Subject: Re: HPU poetry scholarships In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i'm glad to hear that they're non-profit. i was worried it might be a scam. >this is amazing. > >too amazing? > >[...] > >Hawai'i Pacific University is a fully-accredited, non-profit university. -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 18:52:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Sticks and Stones In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit { It keeps occurring to me lately that virtually all political theories, and { not a few moral philosophies, once taken to an extreme, right or left, find { a way of justifying hurting other people. I wonder what the motivating { factor it is that causes people to want to confront other people harshly? And/or perhaps it's as O'Brien says to Winston Smith-- "The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power." Hal Not responsible for typographical errors. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:01:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Sticks and Stones In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Nick, I am impressed, but I don't know if I am consoled by Hazlitt's almost compulsive nailing of so many "dark" alleys of endless bad faith. Wow. Personally I am back on the phone to the my "political representatives" - I guess its a kind of frail faith. But what to do but remind "my" Boxer, Pelosi and Feinstein to publicly remind our bully headed, war mongering President to stop pre-empting, sabotaging and otherwise sneering at the work of the U.N. Inspectors. It remains my impression that's the process the Congress approved to support. (Doesn't Elvis C have a great song about "the inspectors" or am I rhyming that phrase with something else?) But thanks for bringing up the work - Ironically I had just opened up Emerson's essay on "The Poet", but I haven't found a quotable yet! Stephen Vincent on 12/3/02 1:12 PM, Nick Piombino at npiombino@AAAHAWK.COM wrote: > It keeps occurring to me lately that virtually all political theories, and > not a few moral philosophies, once taken to an extreme, right or left, find > a way of justifying hurting other people. I wonder what the motivating > factor it is that causes people to want to confront other people harshly? > Sometimes in moods like this I turn to Emerson or William Hazlitt > (1778-1830). For some reason often, especially when visiting used bookstores > around Boston, I've left with some worn out tome of Hazlitt's essays under > my arm. He has a way of talking about people that fascinates me. "The > pleasure of hating," he writes,"like a poisonous mineral, eats into the > heart of religion and turns it to rankling spleen and bigotry; it makes > patriotism an excuse for carrying fire, pestilence, and famine into other > lands; it leaves to virtue nothing but the spirit of censoriousness, and a > narrow, jealous, inquisitorial watchfulness over the actions and motives of > others. What have the different sects, creeds, doctrines in religion been > but so many pretexts set up for men to wrangle ,to quarrel, to tear one > another in pieces about, like a target as a mark to shoot at?...Does the > love of virtue denote any wish to discover or amend our own faults? No, but > it atones for an obstinate adherence to our own vices by the most virulent > intolerance to human frailties. This principle is of a most universal > application...It inclines us to resent the wrongs of others, it impels us to > be as impatient of their prosperity. We revenge injuries;: we repay benefits > with ingratitude. Even our strongest partialities and likings soon take this > turn...We hate old friends; we hate old books; we hate old opinions; and at > last we come to hate ourselves....We take dislike to our favourite books, > after a time, for the same reason...The popularity of the most successful > writers operates to wean us from them, by the cant and fuss that is made > about them, by hearing their names everlastingly repeated....In private life > do we not see hypocrisy, servility, selfishness, folly and impudence > succeed, while modesty shrinks from the encounter, and merit is trodden > under foot?...Seeing all this as I do, and unraveling the web of human life > into its various threads of meanness, spite, cowardice, want of feeling, and > want of understanding, of indifference towards others, and ignorance of > ourselves...mistaken as I have been in my public and private hopes, > calculating others from myself, and calculating wrong; always disappointed > where I placed most reliance; the dupe of friendship, and the fool of love;- > have I not reason to hate and despise myself? Indeed I do, and not having > hated and despised the world enough." > > There is often something strangely timely, insightful and consoling in the > writing of Hazlitt. At times I've thought he is one of the true precursors > in the efforts to understand many of the complexities of psychology to be > found only much later in his century and ours. > > Nick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 13:54:57 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Sticks and Stones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > It keeps occurring to me lately that virtually all political theories, and > not a few moral philosophies, once taken to an extreme, right or left, find > a way of justifying hurting other people. Posssibly. It does seem that way sometimes... I wonder what the motivating > factor it is that causes people to want to confront other people harshly? It may be for spite (subconcsious or other) but also sometimes it is neccesary - or seems so - and who are you referring to? Indeed, who? The US confronting Vietnam by bombing the hell out of it and overthrowing Allende (democratically elected) or the British sinking a warship thus drowning thousands of young Argentinians and Murdoch (thru his paper ) roaring "Gotcha!", the US bombing Afghanistan and leaving it now in charge of more corrupt Warlords than were there before (always the US leaves things in a worse condition wherever they bomb another country (mines everywhere, drug output put sales increased) (they always bomb: there are harly ever any fighting by US soldiers - they might get killed, cant have that - the left wing confronting people who cant stand certain "realities"? In some cases its a wake up call: the Jews and the German Liberals and The Left etc in the SWW left it too late and ended up fried in ovens. None of this means that there arent equally a lot of "bad eggs" outiside the US some of whom may heave done the Towers for reasons that are purely that of mad Theocracy: that is a possibility....I would also turn to Swift with his Big Endians and Little Endians ....mind you conflict East and West has been going on for centuries....right back to the Crusades. ? Maybe we're (myself included) just simply fucked in the head - maybe Van Gogh was right: there will never be any human happiness....whoa! get out of your cups Richard!!...??!!?...or there is some truth in what you say Nick...who knows...!?!?? What does Harry Nudel and Ron and Patrick etal think about all this ...I'm enjoying his (Sir Tennyson Ron Silliman's Blogg with its intense poetics when I get the time but I dont think he wades in (perhaps wisely) into the political or sticks and stones: he's not a stick man!! Or not mainly...!! Implic: we should maybe "do" more poetics and less politcs..after all Iraqis are not Kiwis or Yanks maybe they dont count...??? Let's get "real" or unreal as the case may or may not be..... We sometimes need to face realities. (Bad word "reality" i dont know what to do with it...(not the obvious!)) Hazlitt went went mad didnt he? I think he (I think it was Lamb who did) was a victim (partly ) of the capitalism and corruption described by Dickens so brilliantly and it continues on even in the 20th to the 21st Century. Beautiful writing you quoted : and you are a very sensitive person Nick and a great poet: that I cant deny. Richard Taylor. > Sometimes in moods like this I turn to Emerson or William Hazlitt > (1778-1830). For some reason often, especially when visiting used bookstores > around Boston, I've left with some worn out tome of Hazlitt's essays under > my arm. He has a way of talking about people that fascinates me. "The > pleasure of hating," he writes,"like a poisonous mineral, eats into the > heart of religion and turns it to rankling spleen and bigotry; it makes I love hazlitt and Lamb and other essayisyts of that time and there is a lot of wisdom in Emerson and Thoreau although I haevnt read (only heard him quoted)...and .I like the 19 th century writing eg George Eliot and Dickens are two favourites. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 17:28:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: Sticks and Stones In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > (Doesn't Elvis C have a great song about "the > inspectors" or am I rhyming that phrase with something > else?) Stephen, do you mean "Watching the Detectives"? Sure is worth a quote anyway: You think you're alone until you realize you're in it Now your fear is here to stay; love is here for a visit They call it instant justice when it's past the legal limit Someone's scratching at the window -- I wonder who is it? The detectives come to check if you belong to the parents Who are ready to hear the worst about their daughter's disappearance Though it nearly took a miracle to get you to stay It only took my little fingers to blow you away Just like watching the detectives It's so cute It's just like watching the detectives When they shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot Best, Damian <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 20:09:02 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: Amazon Sales Ranking In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >then Steven Vincent said, >It would seem a littlemore useful to ask your publisher the number of your >books they have: a. >advanced, b. sold, c. (if you want to get depressed, how many have been >returned.). In my experience, unless you are in an adverse relationship >with the publisher, most people will give you an up to date honest appraisal >of how a book is doing between trade, library, direct sales and readings. Oh, of course I did that too, Steven. I inquired of Dennis re Pitt's sales figures for DEFENSE. But I was also curious about those Amazon rankings, how they work, if and to what extent they're accurate, etc. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 17:00:34 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: pure humor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Precisely! I had a lecturer who said or quoted "Ashbery's as funny as a crashed train" but everything can be funny: (and especially daffy Duck in Hollywood and Variations on Ella Wheeer and A VERMONT NOTE BOOK) etc are hilarious and I think that that latter book is brilliant, one of the best poetry books: often in fact (as you know and I know you know!) the reason we laugh is not in sense because its funny or (we/you/they) are shadenfreuding... (always) and sometimes and on the other side of things we say things that are to "shock" people: those people wanted to get "depth" from Ashbery ...and I know how they might feel - but a humorous response doesnt gainsay "depth" or intensity...it can be cathartic for example... but I've given readings and these days (at firsrt I was disconcerted) I like it when people laugh: it kind of means people are enjoying what one has written ...after all who'se to judge, its only words any case, lets not get too knotted about words marvellous as they are... ...Ashbery probably preferred someone laughing than a lot of straight shirts farting silently and trying to look oh so intelligent: but THATS maybe a distortion...the black-suited people there may have been new to the scene or ...well it is true that laughing can be annoying: but they should have chuckled too. As to Wallace Stevens I think that whoever taught him to me was very good but didnt emphasise the comic element although obviously the Emporer of Ice Cream and the Worms at Heaven's gate are funny (very comical) ...What about dante's "Divine Comedy"...his vision of Hell etc finally is hilarious...in a sense.(Peopel swimming around in shit forever and so on...) (Bush and Bin Laden copulating and turning into monstors and burning and then re-arising only to be joined together at the hip : forever!!!) I had a book on W Stevens and that writer (forget who) emphasied in one chapter the comic element of Stevens. Without trivialising: humour can break through barriers and open one up to "seriousness"...as you say _comic_ is a serious subject: in a funny way, you're right. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Belz" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 8:22 AM Subject: Re: pure humor > Gabriel, > > This is all very helpful & encouraging. I don't believe in a hard literary > canon, but I do recognize a soft 'defacto' canon, defined essentially by > what gets taught/studied in high-school/undergrad, and then also by what is > generally embraced by literary culture. That is, writing that people are > pretty sure will be around for awhile, that demonstrates the principles of > its genre, teaches us something about human experience, etc. So, to > paraphrase my view as that "the comic cannot be canonical" is inaccurate-- > perhaps "the comic is usually not canonical, and I'd like to know why." > > Also, I know there are tons of funny writers that get studied in > high-school/college-- Chaucer is one of my favorite examples. I also love > Camus for his humor. My term "pure humor" was ill-advised. Let's say, > writing that is taught/studied for its humorous quality primarily. So that > excludes Nash and Lear. I can only really think of Swift, and in Swift > it's satire. I can also think of Twain, but his shorter more antic pieces > (that are fucking funny, by the way-- like "How I Edited an Agricultural > Paper Once") are *rarely* taught. How about Moliere? I love Moliere, but > that's theatrical comedy. I'm looking for poetry/fiction/essay that lives > primarily by its humor-- Ogden Nash does, but he's not studied. How about > Wallace Stevens? I can't say the humor is ever taught as the primary mode > or feature of Stevens--if it's taught at all. When I read "Call the roller > of big cigars" in college lit, I was snickering in the back of the > classroom, but the professor explicating the poem certainly didn't > foreground Stevens's jokery. Was it even mentioned? > > Here's some great "pure humor" (bear with the term) -- Jacques Tati's "Mon > Oncle," which I watched last night. The Marx Bros' "Horse Feathers." > Woody Allen's "Bananas." Or sound recordings-- Bob & Ray, Steve Martin. > But again, these are theatrical pieces. In written lit, then: Allen's > three early books, the Josh Billings books I've been reading (e.g. _Hiz > Sayings_), Bill Bryson's travelogues, Mike Topp, Bierce's _Devil's > Dictionary_, Crockett's autobiography, of course Nash and Lear. > > So if "pure humor" is a bad term, how about "comic literature"-- by which I > mean, those writings which serve the primary purpose of making their reader > *laugh*. Laughter is close to ecstasy, and I am aware that it's a nuanced > response. Nothing is "just comedy"; you won't catch me buying into the > fallacy that humor is not serious. I am looking for comic literature, > embraced and taught as such. > > By the way, interesting you mention Ashbery-- my interest in this topic > roots back to an Ashbery reading in a theater at the New School in 1994. > It was a snazzy affair; the wine afterward was actually good. My friend > Brian and I got there early and sat near the front. The crowd was > upper-crusty, black clad Manhattanites, out for (it appeared) an evening of > high culture. If memory serves, some of them had monocles. Anyway, Brian > and i started laughing at the second or third poem, and we basically didn't > stop laughing the whole way through. There were spells of teary silence, > exhaustion. But pretty soon J.A. would start into a new poem, (from > memory, sorry) "So this slave comes / and brings me tea" or "Sometimes > it's more time than we care to be, / with the others. Sometimes its > interesting." Thing is, no one else was laughing. The humor either flew > above their radar, or their radar wasn't tuned to "funny." We were the > subject of a number of repulsed glances. > > It's personal, Gabriel. Humor is serious. It must be taken seriously, or > else! > > Aaron > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:09:03 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: pure humor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/3/2002 11:06:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ writes: > (Bush and Bin > Laden copulating and turning into monstors and burning and then re-arising > only to be joined together at the hip : forever!!!) > Something hilarious and withering at the same time: the cover of the last(?) issue of MAD magazine, the Irak War as a Hollywood movie poster. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:48:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: brush-shaft messages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII brush-shaft messages SINEW OF BOW AND ARM AND BRUSH THE BODY MEMORIZES THE TS'AU-SHU CONTINUATION MUSCLE MEMORY TURNS THE LINE MUSCLE MEMORY RELEASES STONE DRUM STYLE CLOUDS THE ACCUMULATION OF THE QUESTION MARK =] ={ =$ > >< >> >| >_ >- >, >: >? >/ >. >" >( >[ >@ >\ | |^ |~ |< |= ||wn personalized watc lisp phoenix.hlp tiny.worldt |_ |- |, |: |! |/ |. |[ |] |$ |* |\ |+ _ _` _^ _~ _< _= _| __ _- _, _; _:icely, in ways. 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[' [" [( [) [[ [] [$ [* [& [# ] ]` ]^ ]- ], ];-0800 [chair.jpg] $- $: $? $. $" $( $) $[ ${ $@ $$ $* $# $+ # % * *^ *< *> *_ *- *, *; *: *!VD - 212-406-256 *? */ *. *' *" *( *) *[ *@ ** *& \ \= \| \_ \- \? \/ \. \* \\ \+ & &` &_ 2002 22:17:20 -0500 (EST)t were thinking about the body in cyberspa Fro &, &! &. &" &* &\ && &# # #< #> #- #, #; #: #! #/ #. #" #( #) #[ #] #@ #$ [ Some characters may be display RAIN THE COVENANT SINEW OF BOW AND ARM AND BRUSH THE BODY MEMORIZES THE TS'AU-SHU CONTINUATION MUSCLE MEMORY TURNS THE LINE MUSCLE MEMORY RELEASES STONE DRUM STYLE === ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 05:31:27 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Fw: Dear Maria Damon who calls the kettle black MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Mr Conrad apparently you can't i have no great interest in this thread or you, but Maria strikes me as honest and intelligent by all means argue with her, but do be coherent about it; and "middle class tea party language" is incoherent, indicating to me inverse snobbery and concomitant insecurity and then there's your incivility L ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Upton" To: "UB Poetics discussion group" Sent: 03 December 2002 01:13 Subject: Re: Dear Maria Damon who calls the kettle black | Dear Mr Conrad | | Would you mind defining _middle class_ in this sense; you seem to be aware | of a meaning which is not in my dictionary | | I look forward to your reply | | L | | ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Craig Allen Conrad" | To: | Sent: 02 December 2002 20:38 | Subject: Dear Maria Damon who calls the kettle black | | | | all this middle class tea party language is making me sleepy. | | ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 04:43:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: The Milk of Venus:5 Comments: cc: rhizome , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 5 You secretly despise the poor and the old. You loathe everything unwashed and slow. The daze that falls like an unkind sheet over them when they enter the store... Days unravel, dog-eared and threadbare, spinning over and against such heaps. Things salted melt into plasm as hands forget the the cost of motion in December. With detritus for skin. Deep empty rooms for eyes. ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:22:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tim Shaner Subject: Re: anti-war poetry reading Comments: To: CORE-L@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, ENGRAD-LIST@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re-mind-er: Anyone who wishes to read something -- yr own poetry/prose or somebody else's -- is welcome to participate in the Rust Talks event. The list below is simply a compilation of those who rsvp'd me in response to the original invitation. The concept behind the reading/thinking is exploratory: What might anti-war literature look like today, in a time quite different than the 60s/70s, the period we reflexively think of when discussing an anti-war movement. How has theory/poetics changed how we approach this subject? What's at stake here? See you tomorrow night (Thurs, Dec 5), 8PM Rust Belt Books, 202 Allen Street. Don't miss it! PS: Please note the additions to the list below. --On Tuesday, December 03, 2002, 12:54 PM -0500 "Tim Shaner" wrote: > Rust Talks presents > > an ANTI-WAR POETRY READING/think tank (what IS anti-war poetry?) > > 8PM Thurs 12/5 > Rust Belt Books > 202 Allen Street > Buffalo, NY > > featuring > > Christopher Alexander > Sarah Campbell > Barbara Cole > Thom Donovan > Kristen Gallagher Geoffrey Gatza > Gordon Hadfield > Nick Lawrence > Michael Rosendal Kyle Schlesinger > Tim Shaner >Jonathan Skinner > Sasha Steensen > > > and anybody else who wishes to contribute their voice(s) > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 07:23:38 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: super d lucks In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit but it was the environmental self that keep laughing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . the one with all the degrees ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 07:34:39 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: The Milk of Venus: 6 Comments: cc: wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The ice on Staples Mill lake cradles messages from frowning parchment trees whose dreams twist like infants' fists around eternities of water slipping out. It collects them in packets and shoots them to the stars. Somewhere there is a race with just such transmissions for blood. To them, the threshold murmurs of plantlife are a delicate pornography. Today I replace the inflation of my veins with coffee sweetened by instant breakfast powder. Not a grain of sugar in the house dazes Baby the way I transmit memory to Baby through each elastic touch that teases shape for the morning from a sleep that ices cars to steam. One packet is a bundle of silent agonies; very poor, older than the present, the grains I drink from have been filtered for days. A thin, hardly rousing punch; slapping my feelings to a screen's dimensions for want of an image of Baby I cherish and drag through music. Baby carries the whole sleep of December trees dancing to silence. ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:47:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Kuszai" Subject: from nytimes.com: Ivan Illich, 76, Philosopher Who Challenged Status Quo, Is Dead Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" the flags at factory school are flying upside down. --- begin forwarded text Ivan Illich, 76, Philosopher Who Challenged Status Quo, Is Dead December 4, 2002 By DOUGLAS MARTIN Ivan Illich, a onetime Roman Catholic priest who, through a steady flow of books and articles preached counterintuitive sociology to a disquieted baby-boom generation, died on Monday at his home in Bremen, Germany. He was 76. Celia Samerski, a student of his at the University of Bremen, said the specific cause of death was not known. She said he also had a home in Cuernavaca, Mexico. Mr. Illich was perhaps best known for his 1971 book, "De-Schooling Society," which protested mandatory public education and the institutionalization of learning. Along with works like Paul Goodman's, "Growing Up Absurd: Problems of Youth in the Organized Society," published in 1960, it provided grist for a society's growing ambivalence about educational institutions and much else. Mr. Illich was a priest who thought there were too many priests, a lifelong educator who argued for the end of schools and an intellectual sniper from a perch with a wide view. He argued that hospitals cause more sickness than health, that people would save time if transportation were limited to bicycles and that historians who rely on previously published material perpetuate falsehoods. His intellectual ordnance of anarchist panache, hatred of bureaucracy, Jesuitic argumentation, deep reverence for the past and watered-down Marxism, was applied to many targets, including relations between the sexes. More often than not, his conclusions were startling: he thought life was better for women in pre-modern times. Critics often picked holes in his complex, verbose arguments, but not a few hailed them as illuminating critiques of large problems. Anatole Broyard, writing in The New York Times in 1971, said that his nitpicks were "like criticizing the grammar of someone who has just delivered a speech that gave us goose pimples." But after his 1970's heyday, interest in Mr. Illich's ideas appeared to wane. Speaking invitations declined, and even some that still came dripped with nostalgia: Mayor Jerry Brown of Oakland, who was called Governor Moonbeam when he was governor of California and consorted with out-of-the-box thinkers like R. Buckminster Fuller and Mr. Illich, invited him to a conference in 2000. By 1989, Mr. Broyard wrote in an article about winnowing books from his library that he would "especially" discard Mr. Illich's works. Mr. Illich was born on Sept. 4, 1926, in Vienna. He is survived by two brothers, Micha, of Manhattan. and Sascha, of Nantucket, Mass. His father, a civil engineer, descended from Dalmatian royalty. His mother was a Sephardic Jew, and Ivan was expelled from a school in Vienna in 1941 because of her background. He went on to study in Florence and Rome and in Salzburg, where he wrote his doctoral dissertation on the historian Arnold Toynbee. Mr. Illich came to the Washington Heights neighborhood of Manhattan in 1952 after being ordained as a priest in Rome. He particularly attended to the needs of Puerto Ricans, helping establish an employment agency among other things. In an interview with The New Yorker magazine in 1970, the Rev. John Connolly, one of his colleagues, called him "their Babe Ruth." The article said that early in his career as a priest, Father Illich began to criticize the church for "its smugness, its bureaucracy and its chauvinism." But his energy and intellect propelled him to the position of vice rector of the Catholic University of Ponce in Puerto Rico. He was forced out in 1960 for opposing the local bishop's forbidding of Catholics to vote for a governor who advocated state-sponsored birth control. After being recalled briefly to New York, he was assigned to Cuernavaca, a small city 50 miles west of Mexico City where he established the Intercultural Center for Documentation to teach priests and laymen who wanted to become Latin American volunteers. Mr. Illich's criticisms of church doctrine ranged beyond his advocacy of birth control, and in 1969 he was branded "politically immoral" by the Vatican and left the priesthood. Among other things, he disagreed with the church policy of increasing the number of priests in Latin America. He believed that the church could be revived only by lay people, a populist view that he later applied first to education and then to other institutions. "Illich is not against schools or hospitals as such, but once a certain threshold of institutionalization is reached, schools make people more stupid, while hospitals make them sick," wrote Matthias Finger and Jose Manuel Asu'n in "Adult Education at the Crossroads: Learning Our Way Out" (Zed Books, 2001). "And more generally, beyond a certain threshold of institutionalized expertise, more experts are counterproductive - they produce the counter effect of what they set out to achieve," they continued. Mr. Illich's sweeping conclusions struck some readers as too sweeping, and others as plain wrong. Peter Sparkman in The New York Times Book Review in 1971 criticized "De-Schooling Society" as not only "a mind-bending litany of abstraction" but as a distraction from schools' all too real problems. He called it "an exceedingly bad book written by an exceedingly good man." But Mr. Illich relished surprise, and his ideas almost always did. "We must have a sarcastic readiness for all surprises," he said in The New Yorker interview, "including the ultimate surprise of death." http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/04/obituaries/04ILLI.html?ex=1040016287&ei=1&en=fb19d8c0bd5dfd5f HOW TO ADVERTISE --------------------------------- For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters or other creative advertising opportunities with The New York Times on the Web, please contact onlinesales@nytimes.com or visit our online media kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help@nytimes.com. Copyright 2002 The New York Times Company --- end forwarded text -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:48:16 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Dear Lawrence Upton Comments: To: lawrence.upton@BRITISHLIBRARY.NET MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit inverse? maybe you didn't read my e-mail thoroughly. that's exactly what i was claiming. but i love when someone BEGINS by saying they have no interest in an argument, then PROCEEDS to argue for or against whichever side. gee, that's honest. and by the way, Maria Damon doesn't seem to need your white horse. she's smart and capable. besides, we've said plenty on the backchannel since that e-mail you're just now getting around to. but it's a good thing our lives weren't in DANGER! Lawrence, you were late. late. late. late. don't you own a watch? can't you see Big Ben from your window? everyone's just fine Lawrence. but thanks oh so very much for your concern. you dear, sweet man! are you married by chance? i absolutely REFUSE to date another married man! i'm serious, i won't have it! give my best to the Queen. if you must. "NOTHING IS TRUE. EVERYTHING IS PERMITTED." --William S. Burroughs ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 07:52:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: making sex with potential wink tangents In-Reply-To: <14.3b9c192.2b1f7dc0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable making sex with potential wink tangents =93a=94 uncountable to be said temp(corp) oral-ites = wld/shd/cld far exceed the procedural expectancies w/ the idea(l) of submitting to (aRt) and talking off things that accelerate = processed the after work of mopping up nouns in (parent =20 thesis) an integral part of the agency now lost or found or afront, a front, a new front, a feret a vision to live by thick with purpose/pussy/past time a cornice made with lead or painted with lead paint a clit/a cunt though it was at this point when mistakes happen fist fucking became the rage not a mistake just happened =09 left brings to a fall narrows down kees to for boreds in small reg tag ular provision w/ot a suffice or a expansive oil slick you flick the joker out of a fresh deck or not.* *William Faulkner, Absalom, Absalom! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:00:20 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: Dear Lawrence Upton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yeh, yeh - if youve got nothing to say, wear a big hat and sneer - Big Ben, the Queen; youre so well-informed geographically - are you sure you won't marry me? no, no; wear it on your head, oh well, never mind L ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: 04 December 2002 15:48 Subject: Dear Lawrence Upton | inverse? | maybe you didn't read my e-mail thoroughly. | that's exactly what i was claiming. | | but i love when someone BEGINS by saying they have no interest in an argument, | then PROCEEDS to argue for or against whichever side. gee, that's honest. | | and by the way, Maria Damon doesn't seem to need your white horse. | she's smart and capable. besides, we've said plenty on the backchannel | since that e-mail you're just now getting around to. | but it's a good thing our lives weren't in DANGER! | Lawrence, you were late. late. late. late. | don't you own a watch? | can't you see Big Ben from your window? | | everyone's just fine Lawrence. | but thanks oh so very much for your concern. | you dear, sweet man! | are you married by chance? | i absolutely REFUSE to date another married man! | i'm serious, i won't have it! | | give my best to the Queen. | if you must. | | "NOTHING IS TRUE. EVERYTHING IS PERMITTED." | --William S. Burroughs | ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:23:17 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: Dear Lawrence Upton Comments: To: lawrence.upton@BRITISHLIBRARY.NET MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit oh now Lawrence, don't be cross! JUST because i had no idea Big Ben was nowhere near the British Library! i bet YOU didn't know that i can't see Benjamin Franklin's house from my window in Philadelphia! but now you do. isn't that nice? see, neither of us can see our Big Bens from our windows. and now we both know it. what a magical world it is. "NOTHING IS TRUE. EVERYTHING IS PERMITTED." --William S. Burroughs ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:27:37 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Dear Lawrence Upton In-Reply-To: <008d01c29bae$6da156a0$1fc628c3@overgrowngarden> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SEEMS LIKE WEEKS OR MONTHS SINCE WE'VE HAD A GOOD PISSING CONTEST. JUST IN TIME FOR THE HOLIDAYS. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:38:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Sticks and Stones Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:01:48 -0800 > From: Stephen Vincent > Subject: Re: Sticks and Stones > > I don't know if I am consoled by Hazlitt's almost > compulsive nailing of so many "dark" alleys of endless bad faith. This kind of moralizing, of course, is way long out of literary fashion, I guess is doubly out of fashion, after modernism and post modernism. What consoles me in this has to do with what consoles me in say, Freud, Orwell, Aldous Huxley, and more recently, Karen Horney, Winnicott and Heinz Kohut. Each in their own way tried to specify the causes of what in earlier moralistic philosophizing might have been called the question of evil. The problem with tossing out the concept of God and Satan- mythical personifications I personally find not useful- is that you are left with finding a way of accounting for, and dealing with, human destructiveness. Freud, in particular, was haunted by the responsibility for accounting for aggression, having written -The Future of An Illusion- and having taken on the role of establishing a metapsychological foundation for psychoanalysis. Hazlitt, it seems to me, was ahead of the pack on much of this. He doesn't have to resort to an inborn physical or external metaphysical cause of human hurtfulness. He locates it where it belongs- in the culture, specifically at times in British culture (I've quoted only very briefly from this essay)- and also specifically addresses in this essay, which is called " On The Pleasure of Hating" some of the aspects that have to do with literary culture. Thanks, Stephen, for your kind words about my post. Nick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:45:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Dear Lawrence Upton In-Reply-To: <14.3b9c192.2b1f7dc0@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit { don't you own a watch? { can't you see Big Ben from your window? Brings to mind that wonderful speech in Tom Stoppard's *New-Found-Land* in which Bernard sez to Arthur, "Presently, Big Ben was heard to strike ten o'clock. Lloyd George at once asked me whether it was possible to see Big Ben from the upstairs window. I said that it was not. 'Surely you're wrong,' he said, 'are you absolutely certain?' 'Absolutely certain, Prime Minister.' He replied that he found it difficult to believe and would like to see for himself. I assured him that there was no need. The fact was, my mother was upstairs in bed making out her dinner table: she had the understandable, though to me unwelcome, desire to show me off during my leave. Lloyd George pressed the point, and finally said, 'I will bet you £5 that I can see Big Ben from Marjorie's window.' 'Very well,' I said, and we went upstairs. I explained to my mother that the Prime Minister and I had a bet on. She received us gaily, just as though she were in her drawing room, Lloyd Geoge went to the window and pointed. 'Bernard,' he said, 'I see from Big Ben that it is four minutes past the hour. The £5 which you have lost,' he continued, 'I will spend on vast quantities of flowers for your mother by way of excusing this intrusion. It is small price to pay,' he said, 'for the lesson that you must never pit any of the five Anglo-Saxon senses against the Celtic sixth sense.' 'Prime Minister,' I said, 'I'm afraid Welsh intuition is no match for English cunning. Big Ben in the name of the bell, not the clock.' He paid up at once . . . . . . and that was a fiver which I can tell you I have never spent." Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:27:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Sticks and Stones In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thanks, Nick, for your fuller consideration. I guess, for me - and I am much less well read in these areas than you - is how not to yield (or, at least, how does one relate) to the depths of this darkness. It's, as we used to say, "a total downer." How to acknowledge one's own, as well as the darkness of others, and still come up breathing. In terms of poetry and/or languages (as say, different, hopping entirely into a religious box.) What is it about the rhythm, materiality of language, etc. that light or ignite a counter-posing fire? I suspect this discussion is all taking place against the invasion of war into the daily consciousness - the clouds and anxiety of it - all helpfully fed by George W and his companions joined at the hip with a media invested in describing the technological elegance of killer weapons - ever so elegantly delivered out of our collective soul (the place of which Hazlitt is articulate). Parenthetically, last night I wandered accidentally into the Veternan's Hospital of 40th and Lake in the Presidio here in San Francisco. (I was lost. I was trying to get to another Veteran's hospital that is now occupied by non-profit art groups in the part of the Presidio that is now a National park.) It was early evening, dark, and when I went into the working hospital - all shiny black and white linoleum patterns and fresh painted walls - in the the waiting room, and wandering up and down the halls, were veterans who, in terms of age, ranged from WWII, Korea and Vietnam. Swollen stomachs, amputated arms, wheel chairs, amber plastic bottles of multiple-meds you name it - it was like walking through a hall of ghosts in which history (the devastation) came back suddenly like a psychic bullet. I left without asking further instructions. (& maybe a good thought to Whitman as nurse providing soul-care among Civil War soldiers) Where was I going? To hear a talk - a quite wonderful one - by Diane Middlebrook on her new biography in progress, "Her Husband" about the relationship of Ted Hughes and Sylvia Plath. A different kind of violence, one born of romance - though violence was not Middlebrook's relish - but the strength of the relationship when it was about the two young poets working off each other and challenging each other's example to create stronger work (which exhausted itself and took a turn with young children). And then a career (his) ironically wed to her presence and her work - at the mercy of her shadow. All this keeps me thinking of Sartre's "No Exit". A title which, as our Bushmaster takes us "forward" into the next one - the fourth big one of my life (not including the Central American stuff) seems inescapably true and, again, grim and dark. Which takes me back to the original concern - language as navigation through all of this. Win, lose or draw? Stephen V on 12/4/02 8:38 AM, Nick Piombino at npiombino@AAAHAWK.COM wrote: >> Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:01:48 -0800 >> From: Stephen Vincent >> Subject: Re: Sticks and Stones >> >> I don't know if I am consoled by Hazlitt's almost >> compulsive nailing of so many "dark" alleys of endless bad faith. > > This kind of moralizing, of course, is way long out of literary fashion, I > guess is doubly out of fashion, after modernism and post modernism. What > consoles me in this has to do with what consoles me in say, Freud, Orwell, > Aldous Huxley, and more recently, Karen Horney, Winnicott and Heinz Kohut. > Each in their own way tried to specify the causes of what in earlier > moralistic philosophizing might have been called the question of evil. The > problem with tossing out the concept of God and Satan- mythical > personifications I personally find not useful- is that you are left with > finding a way of accounting for, and dealing with, human destructiveness. > Freud, in particular, was haunted by the responsibility for accounting for > aggression, having written -The Future of An Illusion- and having taken on > the role of establishing a metapsychological foundation for psychoanalysis. > Hazlitt, it seems to me, was ahead of the pack on much of this. He doesn't > have to resort to an inborn physical or external metaphysical cause of human > hurtfulness. He locates it where it belongs- in the culture, specifically at > times in British culture (I've quoted only very briefly from this essay)- > and also specifically addresses in this essay, which is called " On The > Pleasure of Hating" some of the aspects that have to do with literary > culture. > > Thanks, Stephen, for your kind words about my post. > > Nick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:25:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joshua Berlow Subject: hiring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 4 Dec 2002 at 0:03, Automatic digest processor wrote: > > > > > >Joshua (author of Insanity Factory, available on Amazon.com) Berlow > > > > > >PS- I'd love to be an academic if anyone is hiring, but alls I got is a > BA. But, I hasten to add, it's a really really GOOD BA. That's what gets me, there's no parity. My BA is better than some (most?) MAs, but no one counts that. It's all about who's able to swallow the most fecal material for the longest period of time, IMHO. -- Joshua Berlow's Website: http://www.joshuaberlow.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 13:05:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: NYTimes.com Article: Ivan Illich, 76, Philosopher Who Challenged Status Quo, Is Dead (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:20:45 -0500 From: Ryan Whyte To: WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA Subject: NYTimes.com Article: Ivan Illich, 76, Philosopher Who Challenged Status Quo, Is Dead This article from NYTimes.com has been sent to you by ryan.whyte@utoronto.ca. Ivan Illich, 76, Philosopher Who Challenged Status Quo, Is Dead December 4, 2002 By DOUGLAS MARTIN Ivan Illich, a onetime Roman Catholic priest who, through a steady flow of books and articles preached counterintuitive sociology to a disquieted baby-boom generation, died on Monday at his home in Bremen, Germany. He was 76. Celia Samerski, a student of his at the University of Bremen, said the specific cause of death was not known. She said he also had a home in Cuernavaca, Mexico. Mr. Illich was perhaps best known for his 1971 book, "De-Schooling Society," which protested mandatory public education and the institutionalization of learning. Along with works like Paul Goodman's, "Growing Up Absurd: Problems of Youth in the Organized Society," published in 1960, it provided grist for a society's growing ambivalence about educational institutions and much else. Mr. Illich was a priest who thought there were too many priests, a lifelong educator who argued for the end of schools and an intellectual sniper from a perch with a wide view. He argued that hospitals cause more sickness than health, that people would save time if transportation were limited to bicycles and that historians who rely on previously published material perpetuate falsehoods. His intellectual ordnance of anarchist panache, hatred of bureaucracy, Jesuitic argumentation, deep reverence for the past and watered-down Marxism, was applied to many targets, including relations between the sexes. More often than not, his conclusions were startling: he thought life was better for women in pre-modern times. Critics often picked holes in his complex, verbose arguments, but not a few hailed them as illuminating critiques of large problems. Anatole Broyard, writing in The New York Times in 1971, said that his nitpicks were "like criticizing the grammar of someone who has just delivered a speech that gave us goose pimples." But after his 1970's heyday, interest in Mr. Illich's ideas appeared to wane. Speaking invitations declined, and even some that still came dripped with nostalgia: Mayor Jerry Brown of Oakland, who was called Governor Moonbeam when he was governor of California and consorted with out-of-the-box thinkers like R. Buckminster Fuller and Mr. Illich, invited him to a conference in 2000. By 1989, Mr. Broyard wrote in an article about winnowing books from his library that he would "especially" discard Mr. Illich's works. Mr. Illich was born on Sept. 4, 1926, in Vienna. He is survived by two brothers, Micha, of Manhattan. and Sascha, of Nantucket, Mass. His father, a civil engineer, descended from Dalmatian royalty. His mother was a Sephardic Jew, and Ivan was expelled from a school in Vienna in 1941 because of her background. He went on to study in Florence and Rome and in Salzburg, where he wrote his doctoral dissertation on the historian Arnold Toynbee. Mr. Illich came to the Washington Heights neighborhood of Manhattan in 1952 after being ordained as a priest in Rome. He particularly attended to the needs of Puerto Ricans, helping establish an employment agency among other things. In an interview with The New Yorker magazine in 1970, the Rev. John Connolly, one of his colleagues, called him "their Babe Ruth." The article said that early in his career as a priest, Father Illich began to criticize the church for "its smugness, its bureaucracy and its chauvinism." But his energy and intellect propelled him to the position of vice rector of the Catholic University of Ponce in Puerto Rico. He was forced out in 1960 for opposing the local bishop's forbidding of Catholics to vote for a governor who advocated state-sponsored birth control. After being recalled briefly to New York, he was assigned to Cuernavaca, a small city 50 miles west of Mexico City where he established the Intercultural Center for Documentation to teach priests and laymen who wanted to become Latin American volunteers. Mr. Illich's criticisms of church doctrine ranged beyond his advocacy of birth control, and in 1969 he was branded "politically immoral" by the Vatican and left the priesthood. Among other things, he disagreed with the church policy of increasing the number of priests in Latin America. He believed that the church could be revived only by lay people, a populist view that he later applied first to education and then to other institutions. "Illich is not against schools or hospitals as such, but once a certain threshold of institutionalization is reached, schools make people more stupid, while hospitals make them sick," wrote Matthias Finger and Jose Manuel Asu'n in "Adult Education at the Crossroads: Learning Our Way Out" (Zed Books, 2001). "And more generally, beyond a certain threshold of institutionalized expertise, more experts are counterproductive - they produce the counter effect of what they set out to achieve," they continued. Mr. Illich's sweeping conclusions struck some readers as too sweeping, and others as plain wrong. Peter Sparkman in The New York Times Book Review in 1971 criticized "De-Schooling Society" as not only "a mind-bending litany of abstraction" but as a distraction from schools' all too real problems. He called it "an exceedingly bad book written by an exceedingly good man." But Mr. Illich relished surprise, and his ideas almost always did. "We must have a sarcastic readiness for all surprises," he said in The New Yorker interview, "including the ultimate surprise of death." http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/04/obituaries/04ILLI.html?ex=1040011645&ei=1&en=b59edf6725e6ede7 HOW TO ADVERTISE --------------------------------- For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters or other creative advertising opportunities with The New York Times on the Web, please contact onlinesales@nytimes.com or visit our online media kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help@nytimes.com. Copyright 2002 The New York Times Company ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 13:09:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: Upcoming Wordsworth Books Events Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Wordsworth Books 30 Brattle St. Cambridge, MA 02138 (617) 354 5201 FRI-SUN 12/6-12/8 A Boston Winter Poetry Conference: Fanny Howe, Gerrit Lansing, John Wieners, Stephen Jonas, Word of Mouth Readings and panels celebrating the work and contributions of these 4 terrific Boston poets and Michael Franco's legendary Cambridge reading series Word of Mouth. FRI 12/6 7 PM John Wieners panel (Jim Dunn, Charles Shively, Maria Damon, John Landry and others) with video and readings of his work to follow SAT 12/7 3 PM Fanny Howe panel (William Corbett, Peter Gizzi, Elizabeth Willis, Jorie Graham and others) with readings to follow 7 PM Stephen Jonas panel (Joseph Torra, Aldon Nielsen, Rafael De Gruttola, Carol Weston and others) with readings of his work to follow SUN 12/8 1 PM Gerrit Lansing panel (Pierre Joris, Nicole Peryafette, Patrick Doud, James Cook and others) with readings to follow 5 PM a celebration of Word of Mouth with readings (Michael Franco, Ed Barrett, David Abel and others) TUE 12/10 7 PM Carrie St. George Comer and Kathleen Ossip SAT 12/14 5 PM Michael Carr and Laura Solomon--upon the release of her book BIVOUAC (Slope Editions) Come as you are. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:25:35 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: from nytimes.com: Ivan Illich, 76, Philosopher Who Challenged Status Quo, Is Dead In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > the flags at factory school are flying upside down. > > > --- begin forwarded text > upside down and forwarded how could anybody ever tell the appropriateness of such a gesture billy from the correct orientation and deleted ? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 19:11:52 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: DOW ADDRESSES BHOPAL OUTRAGE, EXPLAINS POSITION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit December 3, 2002 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: mailto:press@dow-chemical.com DOW ADDRESSES BHOPAL OUTRAGE, EXPLAINS POSITION Company responds to activist concerns with concrete action points In response to growing public outrage over its handling of the Bhopal disaster's legacy, Dow Chemical (http://www.dow-chemical.com) has issued a statement explaining why it is unable to more actively address the problem. "We are being portrayed as a heartless giant which doesn't care about the 20,000 lives lost due to Bhopal over the years," said Dow President and CEO Michael D. Parker. "But this just isn't true. Many individuals within Dow feel tremendous sorrow about the Bhopal disaster, and many individuals within Dow would like the corporation to admit its responsibility, so that the public can then decide on the best course of action, as is appropriate in any democracy. "Unfortunately, we have responsibilities to our shareholders and our industry colleagues that make action on Bhopal impossible. And being clear about this has been a very big step." On December 3, 1984, Union Carbide--now part of Dow--accidentally killed 5,000 residents of Bhopal, India, when its pesticide plant sprung a leak. It abandoned the plant without cleaning it up, and since then, an estimated 15,000 more people have died from complications, most resulting from chemicals released into the groundwater. Although legal investigations have consistently pinpointed Union Carbide as culprit, both Union Carbide and Dow have had to publicly deny these findings. After the accident, Union Carbide compensated victims' families between US$300 and US$500 per victim. "We understand the anger and hurt," said Dow Spokesperson Bob Questra. "But Dow does not and cannot acknowledge responsibility. If we did, not only would we be required to expend many billions of dollars on cleanup and compensation--much worse, the public could then point to Dow as a precedent in other big cases. 'They took responsibility; why can't you?' Amoco, BP, Shell, and Exxon all have ongoing problems that would just get much worse. We are unable to set this precedent for ourselves and the industry, much as we would like to see the issue resolved in a humane and satisfying way." Shareholders reacted to the Dow statement with enthusiasm. "I'm happy that Dow is being clear about its aims," said Panaline Boneril, who owns 10,000 shares, "because Bhopal is a recurrent problem that's clogging our value chain and ultimately keeping the share price from expressing its full potential. Although a real solution is not immediately possible because of Dow's commitments to the larger industry issues, there is new hope in management's exceptional new clarity on the matter." "It's a slow process," said Questra. "We must learn bit by bit to meet this challenge head-on. For now, this means acknowledging that much as it pains us, our prime responsibilities are to the people who own Dow shares, and to the industry as a whole. We simply cannot do anything at this moment for the people of Bhopal." Dow Chemical is a chemical products and services company devoted to bringing its customers a wide range of chemicals. It furnishes solutions for the agriculture, electronics, manufacturing, and oil and gas industries, including well-known products like Styrofoam, DDT, and Agent Orange, as well as lesser-known brands like Inspire, Retain, Eliminator, Quash, and Woodstalk. For more on the Bhopal catastrophe, please visit Dow at http://www.dow-chemical.com/. # 30 # ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 19:54:31 -0500 Reply-To: Allen Bramhall Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Allen Bramhall Subject: Re: Upcoming Wordsworth Books Events MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm a local boy and I hope I can attend these readings. they are events. Jonas, Wieners, Lansing, Howe. damn it, I believe in the local. Allen, typing in from Bedford, Mass. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Behrle" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 1:09 PM Subject: Upcoming Wordsworth Books Events > Wordsworth Books > 30 Brattle St. > Cambridge, MA 02138 > (617) 354 5201 > > > FRI-SUN 12/6-12/8 > > A Boston Winter Poetry Conference: Fanny Howe, Gerrit Lansing, John Wieners, > Stephen Jonas, Word of Mouth > > Readings and panels celebrating the work and contributions of these 4 > terrific Boston poets and Michael Franco's legendary Cambridge reading > series Word of Mouth. > > FRI 12/6 > > 7 PM John Wieners panel (Jim Dunn, Charles Shively, Maria Damon, John Landry > and others) with video and readings of his work to follow > > SAT 12/7 > > 3 PM Fanny Howe panel (William Corbett, Peter Gizzi, Elizabeth Willis, Jorie > Graham and others) with readings to follow > > 7 PM Stephen Jonas panel (Joseph Torra, Aldon Nielsen, Rafael De Gruttola, > Carol Weston and others) with readings of his work to follow > > SUN 12/8 > > 1 PM Gerrit Lansing panel (Pierre Joris, Nicole Peryafette, Patrick Doud, > James Cook and others) with readings to follow > > 5 PM a celebration of Word of Mouth with readings (Michael Franco, Ed > Barrett, David Abel and others) > > > TUE 12/10 7 PM Carrie St. George Comer and Kathleen Ossip > > SAT 12/14 5 PM Michael Carr and Laura Solomon--upon the release of her book > BIVOUAC (Slope Editions) > > > Come as you are. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 20:47:08 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Laura Elrick Subject: Jack Hirshman Aggie Faulk Reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jack Hirshman, author of over 100 books of poetry and translations & Aggie Faulk, celebrated painter and poet will be reading Saturday Dec 7, 2pm at the Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery, Just North of Houston ...followed by Deborah Richards and Rick Snyder at 4pm for the Segue on the Bowery Series Hope you can come! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:22:00 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: The Milk of Venus: 6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lewis and Kari I'm enjoying and am intruiged by yours and others' works I had a quick look at your Blog and saved it to favourites. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "lewis lacook" To: Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 4:34 AM Subject: The Milk of Venus: 6 > The ice on Staples Mill lake cradles messages from > frowning parchment trees whose dreams twist like > infants' fists around eternities of water slipping > out. It collects them in packets and shoots them to > the stars. Somewhere there is a race with just such > transmissions for blood. To them, the threshold > murmurs of plantlife are a delicate pornography. > Today I replace the inflation of my veins with coffee > sweetened by instant breakfast powder. Not a grain of > sugar in the house dazes Baby the way I transmit > memory to Baby through each elastic touch that teases > shape for the morning from a sleep that ices cars to > steam. One packet is a bundle of silent agonies; very > poor, older than the present, the grains I drink from > have been filtered for days. A thin, hardly rousing > punch; slapping my feelings to a screen's dimensions > for want of an image of Baby I cherish and drag > through music. > Baby carries the whole sleep of December trees > dancing to silence. > > > > > ===== > > Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html > http://www.lewislacook.com/ > http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html > meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 21:54:42 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: DOW ADDRESSES BHOPAL OUTRAGE, EXPLAINS POSITION In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is this why this hoax appeared, you think? http://www.greenpeace.org/news/details?news_id=81715 http://www.forbes.com/markets/newswire/2002/12/04/rtr813629.html -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Herron [mailto:patrick@proximate.org] Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 7:12 PM Subject: DOW ADDRESSES BHOPAL OUTRAGE, EXPLAINS POSITION December 3, 2002 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: mailto:press@dow-chemical.com DOW ADDRESSES BHOPAL OUTRAGE, EXPLAINS POSITION Company responds to activist concerns with concrete action points In response to growing public outrage over its handling of the Bhopal disaster's legacy, Dow Chemical (http://www.dow-chemical.com) has issued a statement explaining why it is unable to more actively address the problem. "We are being portrayed as a heartless giant which doesn't care about the 20,000 lives lost due to Bhopal over the years," said Dow President and CEO Michael D. Parker. "But this just isn't true. Many individuals within Dow feel tremendous sorrow about the Bhopal disaster, and many individuals within Dow would like the corporation to admit its responsibility, so that the public can then decide on the best course of action, as is appropriate in any democracy. "Unfortunately, we have responsibilities to our shareholders and our industry colleagues that make action on Bhopal impossible. And being clear about this has been a very big step." On December 3, 1984, Union Carbide--now part of Dow--accidentally killed 5,000 residents of Bhopal, India, when its pesticide plant sprung a leak. It abandoned the plant without cleaning it up, and since then, an estimated 15,000 more people have died from complications, most resulting from chemicals released into the groundwater. Although legal investigations have consistently pinpointed Union Carbide as culprit, both Union Carbide and Dow have had to publicly deny these findings. After the accident, Union Carbide compensated victims' families between US$300 and US$500 per victim. "We understand the anger and hurt," said Dow Spokesperson Bob Questra. "But Dow does not and cannot acknowledge responsibility. If we did, not only would we be required to expend many billions of dollars on cleanup and compensation--much worse, the public could then point to Dow as a precedent in other big cases. 'They took responsibility; why can't you?' Amoco, BP, Shell, and Exxon all have ongoing problems that would just get much worse. We are unable to set this precedent for ourselves and the industry, much as we would like to see the issue resolved in a humane and satisfying way." Shareholders reacted to the Dow statement with enthusiasm. "I'm happy that Dow is being clear about its aims," said Panaline Boneril, who owns 10,000 shares, "because Bhopal is a recurrent problem that's clogging our value chain and ultimately keeping the share price from expressing its full potential. Although a real solution is not immediately possible because of Dow's commitments to the larger industry issues, there is new hope in management's exceptional new clarity on the matter." "It's a slow process," said Questra. "We must learn bit by bit to meet this challenge head-on. For now, this means acknowledging that much as it pains us, our prime responsibilities are to the people who own Dow shares, and to the industry as a whole. We simply cannot do anything at this moment for the people of Bhopal." Dow Chemical is a chemical products and services company devoted to bringing its customers a wide range of chemicals. It furnishes solutions for the agriculture, electronics, manufacturing, and oil and gas industries, including well-known products like Styrofoam, DDT, and Agent Orange, as well as lesser-known brands like Inspire, Retain, Eliminator, Quash, and Woodstalk. For more on the Bhopal catastrophe, please visit Dow at http://www.dow-chemical.com/. # 30 # ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 21:57:25 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Troupe resigns teaching post over resume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You could see this coming, but it doesn't mean that it's not tragic. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20021204-9999_8n4quincy.html http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20021203-1116-troupe.html One of my sons tonight asked me how come they only target the African-American laureates to go after? So we had a discussion about why Daniel Hoffman, Pennsylvania's laureate, has never offended anyone. Ron ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 19:25:24 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: GREY CODE 000001 In-Reply-To: <000a01c29c05$18a792c0$027e37d2@01397384> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit GREY CODE 000001 the the buried they the being buried they unmake the being unmake the is being unmake what the is being buried they unmake what the is buried they what the is what the turn is what scraps the turn is buried they what scraps the turn is being buried they unmake what scraps the turn is being unmake what scraps the turn being unmake scraps the turn being buried they unmake scraps the turn buried they scraps the turn scraps the lost turn scraps we the lost turn buried they scraps we the lost turn being buried they unmake scraps we the lost turn being unmake scraps we the lost turn is being unmake what scraps we the lost turn is being buried they unmake what scraps we the lost turn is buried they what scraps we the lost turn is what scraps we the lost is what we the lost is buried they what we the lost is being buried they unmake what we the lost is being unmake what we the lost being unmake we the lost being buried they unmake we the lost buried they we the lost we lost we saved lost buried they we saved lost being buried they unmake we saved lost being unmake we saved lost is being unmake what we saved lost is being buried they unmake what we saved lost is buried they what we saved lost is what we saved lost turn is what scraps we saved lost turn is buried they what scraps we saved lost turn is being buried they unmake what scraps we saved lost turn is being unmake what scraps we saved lost turn being unmake scraps we saved lost turn being buried they unmake scraps we saved lost turn buried they scraps we saved lost turn scraps we saved turn scraps saved turn buried they scraps saved turn being buried they unmake scraps saved turn being unmake scraps saved turn is being unmake what scraps saved turn is being buried they unmake what scraps saved turn is buried they what scraps saved turn is what scraps saved is what saved is buried they what saved is being buried they unmake what saved is being unmake what saved being unmake saved being buried they unmake saved buried they saved saved . . . the lost turn is being buried they unmake what scraps we saved ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:49:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Congratulations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone yet congratulated Ron S. on his NEA grant? Congratulations, Ron. Hal "A poet is someone from whom nothing must be taken and to whom nothing must be given." --Anna Akhmatova Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 23:29:03 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Only..... While i think it's ludicrous for Quincy Troupe to need any credentials to practice his craft and to teach others to do it so well that they too can make 140 grand a year for part time work. I wish Ron had focused on teaching his son what a leading question is rather than indoctrinating him into the politics of po. The Baraka file is coming up in the state legislature tomorrow,& i'm sure we'll click on the results by the evening. The Troupe affair is somewhat like the plagiarism cases against Doris Kearns Godwin, Susan Sontag & that WWII popular historian whose name escapes me, in that they are supercially about intellectual integrity, but more interestingly about the public need to lay low the all too high & mighty. It most resembles the Ellis bruhaha at Amherst. Ellis for reasons only known to him manufactured a warrior career to put beside his scholarly pursuits. Troupe was fired from UCSD not for manufacturing acadmeic credentials, but superflously adding some imaginary course work about which he wasn't even axed. I can spout psychological cliches about both their motivations, but won;t. Black & White...East & West...they both got canned. By tomorrow every one on this list will be with Eileen Myles on the right side of this issue. Alack alas maybe they can explain the byzantine politics of Black Po. Is Mr. Troupe being pensioned off or is he like the rest of us left to the freezing dog all dark nite of capitalism..Harry.. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 23:58:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Skinner Subject: Ecopoetics 02/ Poetry Project launch 9 Dec. Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable ECOPOETICS 02 at The Poetry Project (NYC), Monday Dec. 9, 8-10pm In conjunction with the release of ecopoetics 02, a party and reading: with performances by ecopoetics contributors Bruce Andrews, Brenda Coultas, Marcella Durand, Joel Felix, Loss Peque=F1o Glazier, Kenneth Goldsmith, Rober= t Kocik, Paige Menton, Julie Patton, George Quasha, Jonathan Skinner. Admission is $10, $7 for students and seniors, and $5 for members. The Poetry Project is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. Located in St. Mark's Church at the corner of 2nd Ave and 10th St in Manhattan. For more information call (212) 674-0910 or email poproj@poetryproject.com * NOW AVAILABLE ecopoetics 02, Fall 2002 (178 pages, perfect bound): poetry, fiction, essays, translation, artwork HUMBERTO AK=B9ABAL birdsongs CHRIS ALEXANDER chat&coq mIEKAL aND plant morphemes for schwerner TIM ATKINS moonscapes PATRICK BARRON abruzzo fieldwork MIKE BASINSKI corn smut CHARLES BELL history of radar DODIE BELLAMY topiary landscapes ANSELM BERRIGAN gut ecology SHERRY BRENNAN pennsylvania winter SEHJAE CHUN immigrants and invasives JACK COLLOM herons MATTHEW COOPERMAN stills MARCELLA DURAND ecology of poetry ROGER FARR, AARO= N VIDAVER & STEVEN WARD rococo field guide JOEL FELIX & LAURA NASH south detroit pastoral w/ photos LOSS PEQUE=D1O GLAZIER digital bromeliads GORDON HADFIELD on lingis CHRISTOPHER JOHNSON sebald after nature RICHARD KOSTELANETZ inside words DOUG MANSON birdfeeder drama PAIGE MENTON phonetic avians JENA OSMAN of leaves and leaflets ETHAN PAQUIN lake stacks MEREDITH QUARTERMAIN roget's matter GEORGE QUASHA axial stones (photos & text) ANNA RECKIN visual spill MICHAEL ROTHENBERG hart crane's bromeliad JAMES SHERRY enviro poetics JONATHAN SKINNER on the new niedecker JESSICA SMITH installation JULIANA SPAHR online glacier melt CHRISTINE STEWART taxonomy diagrams BRIAN STRANG alien assessment COLE SWENSEN (book of) ours DENNIS TEDLOCK desert notes ANDREA ZANZOTTO woods marshes idioms Dedicated to creative-critical edges between making (with an emphasis on poetry) and ecology (the theory and praxis of deliberate earthlings), ecopoetics is published biannually: single issue $6 ($10 institutions); 4-issue subscription $20 ($40 institutions). All prices include postage (outside US & Canada add $3). Please make checks payable to Jonathan Skinner. Write to: 106 Huntington Avenue, Buffalo, NY 14214/ jskinner@acsu.buffalo.edu Some comments: "Gorgeous work, great contributors and bold statements." Ethan Paquin, ed. Slope "One of the most interesting mags I've seen from the States for a while." Nate Dorward, ed. The Gig "ecopoetics is fucking gorgeous." Kenny Goldsmith "It is very much needed." Mei-mei Berssenbrugge "A lot of different stuff, variously rendered, clear!" Robert Grenier "A vast success, on many levels." Anselm Berrigan "Don=B9t forget to pack your ecopoetics." Edward Abbey ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:31:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: interview for m.a.g. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *********************** Interview with Alan Sondheim by August Highland (this interview will appear on valentine's day 2003 in the "m.a.g. special edition" featuring alan sondheim) www.muse-apprentice-guild.com August Highland: How do you characterize the difference between your previously work and your new poetry? Alan Sondheim: I see one leading into the other; I was doing 'interference' computer work and programming back in the 70s already. I'm not sure btw that my work is 'poetry' - it's texting, languaging, of one form or another. My concerns shift constantly; I keep wanting a 'definitive' text - which is what the sophia text ultimately is - a text that outlines a philosophical position by a process of accretion. AH: Was there a context or turning-point that you consider to have been the catalyst for the new direction in your current work? AS: That context or turning-point was decades ago, when I knew Clark Coolidge and Aram Saroyan - they helped push me, or allowed me to push myself. My work has always been 'wayward,' disruptive, contrary, and off-and-on sexualized; it's also been philosophical and what I consider 'resonant' - in the sense that every work capitulates the others. AH: How would you introduce a new reader to the work you are presently working on? AS: Probably ask him or her to try and read it as trance-work; it will come after a while, begin to make sense. Short-waves and long-waves will appear and disappear. One reader told me that the words ultimately seemed to come to him from himself - not from the text; this is a good idea of the writing. AH: What terms would you use to describe your work to the type of reader who wants to categorize your work and specify its genre? AS: Genreless, composed of 'codework,' aphoristic, philosophy; 'wryting' in the sense that it problematizes the body and its presence within the text. AH: What do you deem your most significant work to date or, to put the question another way, to which work do you attribute the most personal value? AS: Other than various parts of the Internet Text, probably the sophia.text for the first part of the question, and the cancer.txt, about the death of my mother, for the second part. AH: Do your regularly correspond with other writers and if so on what basis did your relationship evolve - was it on the affinity of your aesthetic approaches or on your personal compatibility or a combination of both? AS: I'm always in touch with certain people - Leslie Thornton, the film/video- maker, Tom Zummer, artist, writer, theorist, Ellen Zweig, artist, writer, and numerous online people. The first three help me tremendously; I owe them a great deal. AH: Do you enjoy presenting public readings of your work? AS: Yes - recently there have been so many different venues - video - at the Robert Beck Memorial Cinema; laptop performance at a number of places (Minneapolis, Bass Museum, Cosh-Coch); sound (Flying Saucer Cafe); and these mix with straight-forward readings. AH: Are you a disciplined writer with a regular work schedule? AS: I write/video/image daily - from, say, 4 to 12 hours. AH: Did you or do you still have literary mentors whom you admire and who have supported your literary development? AS: Not recently; years ago there was Clark of course, and very early on, I.A. Richards sent me a very encouraging letter. I still like his Practical Criticism. There are people I've felt close to at times - Vito Acconci, Bernadette Mayer, Stelarc - none now. I'm influenced by Kathy Acker (with whom I worked), Jabes, Blanchot, Adorno, Celan - you get the picture. As well as Derrida, Irigaray, the physicists David Finkelstein, David Bohm, John Wheeler, etc. AH: Conversely do you have any close associations with younger writers whose development as a writer you are supporting and nurturing? AS: Various people online and off. There are a number of people who really excite me; as associate editor of Beehive and occasional contributor to Florian Cramer's Unstable Digest, I get to offer online opportunities at times. I've also done anthologies, etc. AH: Every writer wants immortality and to make an historically significant contribution to the western literary tradition - what do you feel your principle contribution has been up to this point in your professional literary career? AS: None yet, in terms of acceptance. The development of a new language and approach to writing - as well as an investigation into the phenomenologi- cal roots of writing - in general. AH: Which writer or writers do you admire whose work you believe is being undeservedly overlooked? AS: This is difficult for me - there are so many writers who excite me. Perhaps Takuboku - author of Romaji Diary - and Seitatsu - at least in terms of a western audience. I lot of theorists... older ones such as Shestov and Sartre for example - I don't hear much about Lingis now who I love. People like Lucan, Juvenal. Current writers like Marc-Alain Ouaknin. AH: To what activity do you enjoy the most devoting your time when you are not working? AS: I'm pretty much always working. I'll watch tv for relaxation, but it's usually background. I read constantly. I take a computer or digital recorder with me wherever I go. Sometimes a digital still or video camera. All this plays into my work. AH: What question(s) would you have liked for me to have asked you and what is (are) your answer(s)? AS: Perhaps what is my attitude towards new media? To which I'd reply I work on ideas, and the media come out of this. In terms of music, I'm interested in the labor of production, and speed - playing as fast as possible - as a way to inscribe the body into the work. Video allows me the greatest lattitude - a way to involve the subject almost in the 'flow' of the work through projection. And laptop performance/projection gives me a way to inscribe myself into the audience, and to introject their reactions - in the midst of image-streams. Finally, politics? - yes, everywhere; we are heading towards an almost uncanny brutality in the United States, based on a combination of paranoia and mourning; this must be fought everywhere and constantly. the m.a.g. quarterly october issue www.muse-apprentice-guild.com the m.a.g. special edition the jim leftwich issue www.muse-apprentice-guild.com/special-edition/leftwich ******************************* --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:31:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Dear! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear, SINCERE GREETINGS. I am. Mrs Maryam Abacha wife of Nigerian late Head of States I am seeking your cooperation and support to hold in trust on behalf of my family a certain funds to protect it urgently from being impounded by the Nigerian government. I am Chief Magna Yamani, Accountant of the Federal Ministry of Youths,Sports,and culture - Parent body of the LocalOrganizing Committee of the 8th All African game tagged "COJA 2003" holding in my country next year. This might seem very deplorable for a person that you do not know. My name is Clement Apute,I am a lawyer and a very close confidant to my client who also happens to be my sister-in-law. Dear Maryam, do say hello to Chief Magna. Hello Chief Magna. Dear Clemente, do say hello to Maryam. Hello Maryam. Maryam, what is wrong? Dear Chief Magna. I have lost all my money. I am crying because I have lost all my money. Dear Maryam, I will give you all the money I have from the All African game. Dear Chief Magna, thank you so very much. this helps a great deal. Dear Clemente, I am very sorry to hear your client is also your sister-in- law. Dear Maryam, that is all right. She is an all right woman, and I do hope you do not mind. Dear Maryam, please tell Clemente that Chief Magna does not mind. Thank you very much. Maryam and Chief Magna, I am very happy. Thank you very much. We are very happy too. === ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 21:59:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: anti-war poetry reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I hope some of these Buffalo anti-war poetry readers/explorers report back on the event. I'm very curious: Tim's question ("What might anti-war literature look like today, in a time quite different than the 60s/70s, the period we reflexively think of when discussing an anti-war movement. How has theory/poetics changed how we approach this subject? What's at stake here?") couldn't be more timely to our agreed purpose of poetics nor, to me, more bewildering. I wanted to follow up on Joe Safdie's recent post about the same problem ("imaginative art that can incorporate some response to -- and even provide a chronicle of -- this recent chain of terrifying events. I feel that the poets alive today will eventually be seen as among the most shameful practitioners of the art if we don't produce such work"; see http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0211&L=poetics&P=R50484&I=-3&m=57246), but it was a topic no one pursued. I tracked down Barrett Watten's ~Critical Inquiry~ essay, "The Turn toward Language in the 60s," and Andrea Brady's less-harsh-on-Language-Poetry-than-originally-reported "Grief" essay in ~Radical Philosophy,~ hoping for some guiding light,--- but was left just as mystified (W.S. Merwin's opacity, a precursor to Language Poetry??) and stymied by the trail of cookie crumbs leading further into a dark forest with the Charles Altieri reference that only elsewhere would prove why Denise Levertov's political transparency had become laughable and unsupportable. Recently, I went through a series of back-channels with someone who wrote me exhorting that any future issues of the journal that I edited, LOGOPOEIA ( http://www.logopoeialogopoeia.da.ru/ ), dedicate it more to a recommitment to political poetry, a "dare" I still find myself baffled over, ---as no one in fact seems to be ~writing~ that kind of poetry, at least in explicit/content-based terms. ...Or, as Altieri may have said, that it leads almost immediately into "bad" poetry. Joe wrote that "abstract and apolitical lyrics flood this listserv", and, among other question marks, I was left wondering--- whether by "abstract" what he wasn't rather hitting upon might be that Pater's dictum of "all arts aspire to the condition of music" has in fact been ~reached~ in "our style" of poetry; and if that plateau, which he sees as "abstract," doesn't engender brand new problems as far as political referentialism--- much like a composer of instrumental music asking how new music could be political or anti-war. (Are those shadows of lumbering giants that I hear Prokofiev orchestrating into the symphonies of his that I've been listening to this week abstract critiques of Stalinism? Isn't the politics of monarchy ~audible~ in the abstract music that the Esterhazys commissioned? ...And likewise an anti-anti-semitism / anti-eugenic-exclusivism equally materialized in the tonal all-inclusiveness of Second Vienna School twelve-tonality, etc., etc., etc.?) I wonder too, unlike the allegedly risible Levertov poem that reported about her actual protesters' park occupation experience, whether the first kind of new anti-war or political poetry that facilely comes to mind wouldn't in fact be poetry about ~media representations~ of the political (newspapers/television), and hence actually a boojum of ---excuse me--- Baudrillard's hyperreal, rather than realpolitik. I.e., is it political to say "This is what I read in the newspaper"? Etc. Barrett Watten's recent post about Tanya and the Simbionese Liberation Army as examples of "radical irrationalism" was tantalizing,--- but it left the reader desperately in need of elaboration: When Watten says "I would propose that current social discourses of terrorism derive from such events", was he proposing it ~proscriptively,~ in the sense that what the world (and poetry) needs now is a ~return~ to Simbionese-style radical irrationalism, sweet radical irrationalism, hence to build a political poetry upon its own comedic ungroundedness,--- or did he mean that recuperation into state-vs.-revolutionary irrationalism became the subsequent discursive ~imprisonment~ that ~prevents~ political poetry? I also tried reading Daniel Davidson's 2002 Krupskaya book, ~Culture,~ because Ben Friedlander and Gary Sullivan blurb it as being quintessentially political (SPD catalog: "One question was foremost in his mind: just how far can experimental be construed as direct political action?"; B.F.: "Politics for Dan Davidson was a site-specific performance art"),--- but, for me, the book may have crossed over that "just how far" line and ~no longer~ be so construable, as I was at a near-total loss to recognize its hermetic politicality. The recurrent craving that these calls to a neo-political poetry seem to be expressing is for a poetry other than the formalism-as-politics that Language Poetry so convincingly theorized. So, I find myself thrown back upon the politicality of minor canonical examples, like the proto-~Paradise~ neo-Latin "In Quintum Novembris" that the 17-year old John Milton wrote in reaction to Guy Fawkes' ("terrorist") gunpowder plot to explode Parliament House,--- which enacts its poetic politicism entirely through an imagination of The Beyond: "You have it in your power to scatter their dismembered bodies through the air, to burn them to cinders, by exploding nitrous powder under the halls where they will assemble" ("Atque dare in cineres, nitrati pulveris igne / Aedibus iniecto, qua convenere, sub imis": trans. [?] Merritt Y. Hughes, ~John Milton: Complete Poems and Major Prose,~ p. 18). I might mention the recent (failed?) attempt of the e-journal http://www.newmediapoets.com/nmp.html, which entered into its dedication to drumming up a new political poetry with even a ~manifesto~ in tow, against the anachronistic limbo of most current poetry: "We are a movement of engagement. Always engaged, we articulate our participation in a culture, in an economy, in a particular country, now ... We see beauty in nouns and names, proper and otherwise: Tiger Woods ... We know these names to be within the perimeters of the poetic...", however collecting somewhat oblique work, itself. (I should add, I genuinely do believe that the diptych of poems Garrett Kalleberg published in LOGOPOEIA were some of the first, best, "post-9/11" poetry I've read: "I take a draw on a cigarette / which pulls a young Pakistani man’s / hand holding an oiled cloth down the length / of the barrel of a gun...".) Has anyone read the O Books journal Enough that Leslie Scalapino edited, which also addressed "anti-war poetry" (SPD: "based on the theme 'Seeing is a form of change,' this issue investigates warfare and the World Trade Center bombing", with poetry by our A-List: McClure, Notley, Bernstein, Davies, A. Berrigan, Hofer, Joris, Darragh/Inman, Osman, etc., etc.,...)? ------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:22:13 -0500 From: Tim Shaner Subject: Re: anti-war poetry reading Comments: To: CORE-L@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, ENGRAD-LIST@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Re-mind-er: Anyone who wishes to read something -- yr own poetry/prose or somebody else's -- is welcome to participate in the Rust Talks event. The list below is simply a compilation of those who rsvp'd me in response to the original invitation. The concept behind the reading/thinking is exploratory: What might anti-war literature look like today, in a time quite different than the 60s/70s, the period we reflexively think of when discussing an anti-war movement. How has theory/poetics changed how we approach this subject? What's at stake here? See you tomorrow night (Thurs, Dec 5), 8PM Rust Belt Books, 202 Allen Street. Don't miss it! PS: Please note the additions to the list below. --On Tuesday, December 03, 2002, 12:54 PM -0500 "Tim Shaner" wrote: > Rust Talks presents > > an ANTI-WAR POETRY READING/think tank (what IS anti-war poetry?) > > 8PM Thurs 12/5 > Rust Belt Books > 202 Allen Street > Buffalo, NY > > featuring > > Christopher Alexander > Sarah Campbell > Barbara Cole > Thom Donovan > Kristen Gallagher Geoffrey Gatza > Gordon Hadfield > Nick Lawrence > Michael Rosendal Kyle Schlesinger > Tim Shaner >Jonathan Skinner > Sasha Steensen > > > and anybody else who wishes to contribute their voice(s) > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:33:57 -0800 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Christopher Alexander MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Chris Alexander--- Could you backchannel me? I have a few questions about the list I need to ask you about.... Thank you, Chris ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 23:30:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: MAP 01 In-Reply-To: <20021205055940.83397.qmail@web40805.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit MAP 01 accident - - - - - - - - - - brevity - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - necessity - - - - - - - - - - hope ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 07:14:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Good Golly, Miss Molly In-Reply-To: <000201c29c0a$0e384550$0742c143@Dell> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Awopbopaloobop Alopbamboom! -- Little Richard's 70 today -- many happy=20= returns! ___________________________________________________________ + Freedom for the people of the Social Forum arrested in Italy /=20 Libert=E0 per i compagni del Social Forum arrestati in Italia ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a = crime. Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere = Else. c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 = -- Thomas Bernhard email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:28:26 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Good Golly, M. Pierre In-Reply-To: <1896666A-084B-11D7-9907-003065BE1640@albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 7:14 AM -0500 12/5/02, Pierre Joris wrote: >Awopbopaloobop Alopbamboom! how would you say that in french, pierre? flemish? arabic? anyone else want to translate into the languages they know and/or love? >___________________________________________________________ >+ Freedom for the people of the Social Forum arrested in Italy / Libert=E0 = per >i compagni del Social Forum arrestati in Italia >___________________________________________________________ >Pierre Joris >6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a crime= =2E >Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. >h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere Else. >c: 518 225 7123 >o: 518 442 40 85 >-- Thomas Bernhard >email: joris@albany.edu >http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ >____________________________________________________________ -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:53:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: Good Golly, M. Pierre In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thursday, December 5, 2002, at 09:28 AM, Maria Damon wrote: > At 7:14 AM -0500 12/5/02, Pierre Joris wrote: >> Awopbopaloobop Alopbamboom! > > > how would you say that in french, pierre? flemish? arabic? > anyone else want to translate into the languages they know and/or = love? This is how I came to this language: I listened to Little Richard on=20 AFN stations & heard Awopbopaloobop Alopbamboom! & couldn't translate=20 it & that it was untranslatable (or maybe Ernst Jandl could) & decided=20= to drop all those old Euro-lingos I was brought up with & move to=20 English or rather American because this was the funnest language ever. > >> ___________________________________________________________ >> + Freedom for the people of the Social Forum arrested in Italy /=20 >> Libert=E0 per >> i compagni del Social Forum arrestati in Italia >> ___________________________________________________________ >> Pierre Joris >> 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a=20= >> crime. >> Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. >> h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere=20= >> Else. >> c: 518 225 7123 >> o: 518 442 40 85 >> -- Thomas Bernhard >> email: joris@albany.edu >> http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ >> ____________________________________________________________ > > > -- > > ___________________________________________________________ + Freedom for the people of the Social Forum arrested in Italy /=20 Libert=E0 per i compagni del Social Forum arrestati in Italia ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a = crime. Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere = Else. c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 = -- Thomas Bernhard email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:30:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Kelleher Subject: Need Contact Info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Does anyone have contact info for Art Spiegelman? Please backchannel. Best, Mike ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:54:41 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: sex Poetix-style MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Allowing my humble Midwestern imagination to run away w/ me-- I bet this is the kind of sex you pinkoes have on a regular basis-- + + + + + + + He leaned over and said, 'Take off your shirt.' 'No. Why?' 'I hunger only for you.' I began to laugh. 'Go chew Mao quotations! Fill your stomach with them. Come on! Chairman Mao teaches us. . . ' '"A thousand years is too long, seize the moment."' He grabbed me. 'Chairman Mao also teaches us, "A revolution is an insurrection, an act of violence by which one class overthrows another."' 'Chairman Mao again teaches us' - I put down the buns and wrestled with him - '"The situation must change. It is the task of the people of the whole world to put an end to the aggression and oppression perpetrated by imperialism."' He went wild. '"If the US monopoly capitalist groups persist in pushing their policies of aggression and war, the day is bound to come when they will be hanged by the people of the whole world."' I could feel my body blooming. I was unable to continue the reciting. 'Don't you stop, Maple! Show your faith in Chairman Mao! Demonstrate your loyalty! Page one hundred fifty-six. "Speech at the Moscow Meeting of Communist and Workers' Parties." Come on now!' '"It is my opinion,"' I began, '"that the international situation has now reached a new turning point."' I stopped, my thoughts suddenly scattered - the pleasure was too overwhelming. 'Go on, Maple, go on. "There are two winds in the world today"' - he caressed me, his hands cupping my breasts from behind - '"the East Wind and the West Wind. There is a Chinese saying, Either the East Wind prevails over the West Wind or the West Wind prevails over the East Wind."' We were breathless. He insisted we continue reciting. I tasted his sweat as I went on. '"It is characteristic of the situation today that the East Wind is prevailing over the West Wind. That is to say, the forces of socialism have become overwhelmingly superior to the forces of imperialism. . . "' Our bodies came together again. . . He groaned, 'Oh! Chairman Mao!' [from _Wild Ginger_ by Anchee Min (The Women's Press), as reported by the Guardian in "Extracts from the shortlist for the Literary Review Bad Sex Prize 2002" http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,6109,853588,00.html] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:58:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Perry Subject: Barretta/Zinc Reading=Jarnot+Kuykendall+Perry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Barretta Books invites you to a reading at the Zinc Bar on Sunday, December 8, 2002 at 6:37 p.m. Lisa Jarnot Marc Kuykendall David Perry The Zinc Bar is located at 90 w Houston @ La Guardia Pl. Please join us after the reading to celebarate the launch of Barretta = Books. Broadsides of new work by each poet, as well as Marc's first = collection, My Picayune Anxiety Room, will be available. The party will = be in the back room of Botanica, located at 47 e Houston @ Mott St. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:32:47 -0500 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Brian Stefans [arras.net]" Subject: Winter Performance Series - Marianne Boesky Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit e-nnouncement CURRENT EXHIBITION GALLERY ARTISTS CONTACT AND STAFF PUBLICATIONS/EDITIONS Winter Performance Series December 10-15, 2002 Marianne Boesky Gallery 535 West 22nd Street, 2nd Floor New York, NY 10011 info@marianneboeskygallery.com 212-680-9889 Tel 212-680-9897 Fax Tuesday through Saturday, 10am - 6pm For more Info visit: http://www.marianneboesky.com Winter Performance Series Dec. 10 ANDY WARHOLfilms SINCE (1966) and SUNSET (1967) Dec. 11 JIM O'ROURKE music performance Dec. 12 ALAN LICHT and JANENE HIGGINS guitar and video improvisation Dec. 13 LOREN MAZZACANE CONNORS solo guitar improvisation accompanying film Dec. 14 STEVE MCCAFFERY video and poetry performance Dec. 15 3pm screening of Peter Liechti's "SIGNERS KOFFER" (1995) documentary about Swiss artist Roman Signer All events start at 7pm unless otherwise noted. $8 admission for each event (to benefit performing artists) except Andy Warhol movies are FREE. For more information please visit http://www.marianneboesky.com/ or call 212-680-9889. If you received this email in error or wish to be removed from future electronic mailings, please click here. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:45:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: anti-war poetry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >... What's at stake here?") couldn't be more timely to our >agreed purpose of poetics nor, to me, more bewildering. It is bewildering. One question vis-a-vis anti-war poetry I have is what does one expect from such a project? And who is expecting, what position do they have with respect to any larger, potentially swayable audience, if that's what one does, finally, expect--to sway? Need that enter into the equation at all? In other words, does one expect more-or-less immediate change, or to have one's work read at some point in the future, by others, and potentially change/sway them? If the former, is it naive and doomed to failure not to bring the question of audience in, and consider that in how anything is made, distributed, talked and written about? Does it involve having a well-put-together group as opposed to isolated, individual poets "writing against"? And so on. Joe Safdie's post seemed to have come out of Ammiel Alcalay's and Anne Waldman's e-mail, also posted to the list, about getting together an active group of poets who would ... well, I couldn't figure the last part out, because I think they're maybe not totally sure about that either. It seemed like they were looking for input, are still putting that aspect together. But I noticed, in both that e-mail/post and Joe's, the word "shame" comes up. It's an interesting word, in that, the moment you use it, perhaps more sensitive/reactive people might feel already a twinge of it. My initial impulse, reading both of those posts, although I'm certainly not against what they may be proposing, was that I really wanted no part of any "shaming" program. (My own knee-jerk reaction to anything that smacks of puritanism.) But, also, unless human beings change radically, I can't see how "the poets alive today will eventually be seen as among the most shameful practitioners of the art if we don't produce such work." I'm not sure how that would happen. And, ultimately, it seems like, if the work has no legitimate political efficacy, then it's just, what is its worth, besides, later, a kind of weird nostalgia thing, how we look now at Hannah Hoch, for instance. She was a "good" artist, morally good. But who did her art, at that time, convince? Change? Whose eyes, at that time, in that culture, were opened? How many eyes? Was it enough? Obviously it was better than nothing. But. Couldn't we strive for more? So the question of efficacy seems like it's really got to be addressed, thought through, which includes, I would guess, if that's what you're interested in doing, needing to address one's own situation vis-a-vis audience. My feeling, at least with respect to Joe's post, is that "this recent chain of terrifying events" is no more or less terrifying (necessarily) than almost any particular situation in recorded human history. I think, post-9/11, artists & writers in the U.S. have become, if it's possible, even more narcissistic/provincial than before. (I include myself in that, btw.) And I don't mean simply in the sense of "our pain" or "our wake-up call," but more like, we've once again become culturally generally conscious of how Roman we are, how Hellenistic, and there's a way in which we seem to return to that, almost wallow in it. Which is a sticky subject because one wants to be aware of what one's culture/government/own actions are doing, what effect they have, but it also seems to me like we're (generally speaking) still caught in this situation of *looking at ourselves* that--for me--winds up becoming simply an acknowledgment (& by extension, an assertion) of "our" "power." Isn't there a way in which western culture critique ultimately strokes the western ego, as powerful, warping factor? I don't mean wholly, but. When it doesn't provide fully-realized alternatives. This is the culture critic's/satirist's dilemma, generally, and may be the poet's as well. Ron Silliman makes the point that the politics of disgust (and cynicism), for instance, does not necessarily provide or open up alternatives for organizing or (he says) writing critically. (I admit I was confused by that at first, because "writing critically" doesn't seem necessarily different from writing out of disgust. But I think he means *positively* critically, "critical" not in the sense of "condemnation" but in the sense of "thinking fully through." To some *end*.) But, to me, being able to think something with global ramifications "fully through," it seems like one has to know something about the rest of the world. More than just something. One ought really to be immersed in it, moreso probably than in one's own culture, if that's even possible (and it might not be without moving). There's hardly a dearth of cultural criticism out there, of satire, of politcally reactive art, including poetry. But just try finding material on, say, Naseebo Laal in this culture, let alone material that might contextualize what she does. And how to incorporate that, whatever you might find, along with everything else you might be looking at, out there, and work it into your poetry in such a way that it's not completely decontextualized? For me, it's not the flood of abstract and apolitical lyrics that seems troubling on this list--there's lots of political discussion that goes on here. It's the lack of information, culture, reportage, exchange with others--and I mean outside the U.S. (and not just Canada and Britain and Australia and New Zealand and maybe France, though that's all good, too). Anything posted here with respect to others, other cultures, rarely gets picked up as a thread--it's usually commented on by one or two & then dropped. We seem to have no way, *as a group*, of taking others in, in a sense. We don't really welcome it in a way that it seems to ever go anywhere, or it's probably more likely that we just don't, in this culture (and I mean poetry community as well as U.S.A.) have any context for "others." Not really. The poets in the sixties involved in the war resistance were also, many of them, it seemed like, also involved in opening up dialogues with other cultures. It may or may not have ultimately been a successful project. (I just read somewhere how too much poetry translated into English at that time became warped into this weird U.S. sensibility--not quite sure if the charge is accurate or not, though how something might get warped, is worth considering.) Last night at the Poetry Project, Douglas Rothschild read from a series of poems, "The Minor Arcana," that reportedly began as phone calls, messages left on Jordan Davis's answering machine. Instead of erasing them after listening to them, Jordan transcribed them, or so the mythology goes. Douglas recast the transcribed rants as poems. They're very transparent, very much specific to this time and place, and anti-war. I thought they were interesting, as no one that I know of--personally--right now is doing anything quite that transparent, at least not specificly "anti-war," and not as such an extended project. (Jordan's doing a project sort of related to Douglas's, but it's not specifically anti-war.) There are moments of brutal satire in Doug's piece--for instance, the idea he proposed that Palestinians should wave American flags and hold up replicas of the statue of liberty while tanks run them down--it would, so the logic goes, make Americans suddenly "care" about them. But the series ultimately really gave me nothing I hadn't been given by the media already, in terms of expanding whatever sense I had of the people likely affected by current U.S. actions and policy. And, in fact, the media, when I bother to check it out, has more glimmers of "elsewhere" than were apparent in this series of poems. There was something poignant about Douglas's reading them at the Project--in other words, in a church, among believers ("poetry" and "leftist politics, generally" believers, myself included). Two things nagged at me. Would anyone's mind be changed by this stuff, was it anything I wasn't already thinking, and would anyone whose mind might be changed have access to it? And, there was no real attempt made to open doors leading "elsewhere." It *is* cynical to believe that Americans will only be concerned about others if they're waving U.S. flags. What about if they were given accurate pictures of--and I don't mean just "photographs" or "footage" of, but really extended explorations of the people and places our country's policies are damaging? This is not to damn Douglas nor the audience--again, I was one of them, and I was sympatico. Just that, it seemed ultimately to raise more questions for me than opening up any doors, getting beyond this feeling I have that we're still kind of this very narcissistic culture, not quite ready yet to look beyond our borders. It *didn't* have the feeling, for me, ultimately, of a fully "efficacious" project. As of yet, anyway. That might not have been his point. I don't know. But that *seems* to be Joe's and Ammiel's and Anne's. And no doubt many others'. I don't say all of this as someone doing what he's preaching, but more am just wondering about poetry and political efficacy, about resistance, and wondering if anyone very much invested in the idea of poetry as political instance/gesture/platform etc., or as potentially efficacious, well I wonder how far they've gone in thinking through all of this in terms of workability, the more pragmatic stuff maybe. I'm guessing there are people who have. I guess it's true that I would really like to see something, some gesture beyond reaction in political poetry. And there may be people working on this, really thinking globally, incorporating everything it seems to me you'd have to incorporate into one's work to provide more than critique. What are people's thoughts about that? What's being done that someone could tell us about or point to? _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:58:19 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Only the Only... I've spent a good part of this blizzarded-in morning reading Quincy Troupe's on-line po...i don't think Daniel Hoffman has anything to worry about..and if i were a taxpayer in Ca. i'd have some second thots about where my $$$ was goin'.... The liberal P.C. left cannot bear that mediocrity runs across the color, gender and pol line...the pol. po patron mill that got Hoffman his job is the same pol po patron mill that got Troupe his job...at least in the Baraka case we have a poet who can and is often brilliant... In the good ole days these sinecures cemented by connections and reinforced by endless doggerel publishing were at least seen by those outside as what they were...we now have the odd scene of the rad left having to defend those in the Academic Over World..bro can you spare a surrealist sonnet...harry.. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:43:51 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Tsunami Editions, Vancouver MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT > >Tsunami Editions, Vancouver >to order, email Michael Barnholden > >NEW & NEARLY NEW > >Struggle Through > by Jackson Mac Low $7 28pp/cb > An international coedition with Hole books >It¹s Not As If It Hasn¹t Been Said Before >by Robert Manery - $10 64pp/pb > Procedural poems from the co-editor of Hole Books. >Works >by Michael Barnholden - $6 36pp/cb >A documentary poem originally published by 16Larch books. >Redactive >by Dorothy Trujillo Lusk - $8 48pp/cb > A lost classic back in print. >The Apothecary >by Lisa Robertson - $8 36pp/cb > Robertson¹s first book is available again. >Brixton Fractals >by Alan Fisher - $9 80pp/cb > An 80 page chapbook of stunning original thought. > >IN PRINT >Multiple Poses - Colin Smith - $10 >Mouthpiece - Kathryn MacLeod - $10 >The Garcia Family C0-Mercy - Melissa Wolsak - $10 >Thimking of You - Dan Farrell - $10 >Ambit - Gerald Creede - $10 >The Relative Minor - Deanna Ferguson - $10 >Pause Button - Kevin Davies - $10 >Braids of Twine - Peter Ganick - $5 >rIMAGE _ John Byrum - $5 > >-- >poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics >(Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord., Small Press Action Network - >Ottawa (SPAN-O) ...snail c/o rr#1 maxville ontario canada k0c 1t0 >www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * 7th coll'n - paper hotel (Broken Jaw Press) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:39:55 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: Re: Troupe resigns teaching post over resume In-Reply-To: <000201c29c0a$0e384550$0742c143@Dell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT RS writes: I Reply: Should he have? _JG -------------------- "Always in a foreign country, the poet uses poetry as interpreter." --Edmond Jabes ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:24:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Mal Waldron Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Today, WKCR is playing Mal Waldron recordings all day in a memorial to that terrific composer and jazz musician who just died. I remembered that he is mentioned in a classic poem by Frank O'Hara and thought it was from -Poem- in which he writes "Lana Turner has collapsed!" But, of course, it is from THE DAY LADY DIED It is 12:20 in New York a Friday three days after Bastille day, yes it is 1959 and I go get a shoeshine because I will get off the 4:19 in Easthampton at 7:15 and then go straight to dinner and I don't know the people who will feed me I walk up the muggy street beginning to sun and have a hamburger and a malted and buy an ugly NEW WORLD WRITING to see what the poets in Ghana are doing these days I go on to the bank and Miss Stillwagon (first name Linda I once heard) doesn't even look up my balance for once in her life and in the GOLDEN GRIFFIN I go get a little Verlaine for Patsy with drawings by Bonnard although I do think of Hesiod, trans. Richard Lattimore or Brendan Behan's new play or Le Balcon or Les Negres of Genet, but I don't, I stick with Verlaine after practically going to sleep with quandariness and for Mike I just stroll into the PARK LANE Liquor Store and ask for a bottle of Strega and then I go back to where I came from to 6th Avenue and the tobacconist in the Ziegfield Theatre and casually ask for a carton of Gauloises and a carton of Picayunes, and a NEW YORK POST with her face on it and I am sweating a lot by now and thinking of leaning on the john door in the 5 SPOT while she whispered a song along the keyboard to Mal Waldron and everyone and I stopped breathing - I can't believe it is only today that I completely understood the point of O'Hara evoking all these details of the moment he learned Billie Holiday died. Of course it comes from the nearly universal experience of never forgetting, including the permanent retaining of some vivid visual memories, the day we experience a crucial trauma as in, of course, the classic knowing where you were at the moment of learning of a great public tragedy- such as the unforgettably upsetting day John Lennon was murdered. Nick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:14:18 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: unwielding OccasiOn In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit unwielding OccasiOn searching a stabile................................................................. ........................................................................ ........................................................................ ........................................................................ ........................................................................ ........................................................................ ........................................................................ ........................................................................ ........................................................................ ................................................................I caldered searching the sky..................................................................... ........................................................................ ........................................................................ ........................................................................ ........................................................................ ........................................................................ ........................................................................ ....................................the dr. said cough ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:15:38 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?=93we_r_wht_is_did=94?= In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =93we r wht is did=94 imagine an imminent countter that =09 nxtIInthngs=3D(s)un-a supertankers censorship cons truck s/(ed) out of classification out of sifrettee incitement enticement yummy favored in trap mnt built on top of there there - the there there not there there - the=20 there there everywhere there there - built to last there there - just=20= do it there there there there at the prom nite dance t h ere ther e searchinga table for a focal / a fecal ct / point of =09 tableau w/ dirty wds = sans serifs notice w/in a nxt war =3D same war =3D some more =3D need more=3Dsame = time=3Dnxt=20 tme potential target )s( that wore off=09 2becomes = melodies4 a group of laughing dummies saying - =93we r wht is did=94 =93we r = wht is did=94 =93we r wht is did=94 =93we=20 r wht is did=94 =93we r wht is did=94 =93we r wht is did=94 =93we r wht = is did=94 they just keep laughing saying -=93we r wht is did=94 =93we r wht is = did=94 =93we=20 r wht is did=94 =93we r wht is did=94 =93we r wht is did=94 =93we r wht = is did=94 =93we=20 r wht is did=94 =93we r wht is did=94 =93we r wht is did=94 =93we r wht = is did=94 =93we=20 r wht is did=94 =93we r wht is did=94 =93we r wht is did=94 =93we r wht = is did=94 =93we=20 r wht is did=94 =93we r wht is did=94 =93we r wht is did=94 =93we r wht = is did=94 =93we=20 r wht is did=94 =93we r wht is did=94 =93we r wht is did=94 over and over ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:02:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: Poetry Project Announcements Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable NEXT WEEK AT THE POETRY PROJECT *** MONDAY DECEMBER 9 [8:00pm] ECOPOETICS EVENT WEDNESDAY DECEMBER 11 [8:00pm] SHERMAN ALEXIE AND CHUCK WACHTEL FRIDAY DECEMBER 13 [10:30pm] THE BEST OF SUMMER 2002 ROOFTOP FILMS http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html *** MONDAY DECEMBER 9 [8:00pm] ECOPOETICS EVENT Ecopoetics is a new magazine dedicated to exploring the creative-critical edges in writing, with an emphasis on poetry and ecology (the theory and praxis of deliberate earthlings). Tonight's launch party for the second issue will include readings and performances by contributors Bruce Andrews, Brenda Coultas, Marcella Durand= , Joel Felix, Loss Peque=F1o Glazier, Kenneth Goldsmith, Robert Kocik, Paige Menton, George Quasha, Jonathan Skinner, and others. WEDNESDAY DECEMBER 11 [8:00pm] SHERMAN ALEXIE AND CHUCK WACHTEL Sherman Alexie recently made a stunning debut as a director when he brought his title The Business of Fancydancing out as an independent film. The movi= e has been voted Best Narrative Feature Film (Durango Film Festival) and also received an Outstanding Screenwriting Award (OUTFEST). The Seattle Weekly raves: "Every filmmaker should have such talent." Alexie has published 14 books to date, including his most recent collection of short stories, The Toughest Indian in the World, and his newly released poetry collection, One Stick Song. His several books of poetry include Old Shirts & New Skins (UCLA) and The Summer of Black Widows (Hanging Loose Press). Shortly after the publication of his first book, The Business of Fancydancing (a collection of poetry and stories) Alexie was described as "one of the major lyric voices of our time" in the New York Times Book Review. He was named one of Granta's Best of Young American Novelists and won the Before Columbu= s Foundation's American Book Award and the Murray Morgan Prize for his first novel, Reservation Blues, published in 1995 by Atlantic Monthly Press. His second novel, Indian Killer, published in 1996 (also by Atlantic Monthly Press) was named one of People's Best of Pages and a New York Times Notable Book. A story from his first collection of short stories, The Lone Ranger and Tonto Fistfight in Heaven, was released as the movie Smoke Signals at the Sundance Film Festival in January 1998; the movie won two awards: the Audience Award and the Filmmakers Trophy. Alexie occasionally does readings and stand-up performances with musician Jim Boyd, a Colville Indian. Alexie and Boyd also collaborated to record the album Reservation Blues, which contains the songs from the book of the same name. One of the Reservation Blues songs, "Small World" (WAV), also appeared on Talking Rain: Spoken Wor= d & Music from the Pacific Northwest and Honor: A Benefit for the Honor the Earth Campaign. In 1996 Boyd and Alexie opened for the Indigo Girls at a concert to benefit the Honor the Earth Campaign. Alexie competed in his first World Heavyweight Poetry Bout competition in June 1998. He went up against world champion Jimmy Santiago Baca and won the Bout, and then went on to win the title again over the next three years, becoming the first poe= t to hold the title for three and four consecutive years. He is the current reigning World Heavyweight Poetry Bout Champion. In 1998, Alexie participated with seven others in the PBS Lehrer News Hour Dialogue on Race with President Clinton. The discussion was moderated by Jim Lehrer and originally aired on PBS on July 9, 1998. In June 1999, The New Yorker acknowledged Alexie as one of the top writers for the 21st Century. He was one of twenty writers featured in the magazine's Summer Fiction Edition, "2= 0 Writers for the 21st Century." Among Chuck Wachtel's books are the novels The Gates and Joe The Engineer, which was awarded a PEN/Hemingway citation and has enjoyed multiple reprintings; a collection of stories and novellas, Because We Are Here; and five collections of poems and short prose including The Coriolis Effect and What Happens to Me. He is presently at work on a nearly completed new novel= , River of Stars. His stories, poems, translations and essays have appeared i= n Hanging Loose, The Nation, The Village Voice, Up Late: American Poetry Sinc= e 1970, 110 Stories: New York Writes After September 11th and numerous other anthologies and magazines both here and abroad. FRIDAY DECEMBER 13 [10:30pm] THE BEST OF SUMMER 2002 ROOFTOP FILMS Rooftop Films Indoors was founded in 1997 by filmmakers who were interested in making, watching, and talking about good films in a relaxed, communal environment. It is a volunteer-run non-profit corporation which promotes low-budget filmmaking in New York City. This evening will be curated by Rooftop's Moira Griffin and will showcase the best shorts from the summer 2002 series. Also featuring "Broken English" with DJ Brett Creshaw and other DJs, and open mike TBA. *** Unless otherwise noted, admission to all events is $10, $7 for students and seniors, and $5 for Poetry Project members. Schedule is subject to change. The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church in-the-Bowery at 131 E. 10th Street, on the corner of 2nd Avenue in Manhattan. Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. The Poetry Project is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information, or e-mail us at poproj@poetryproject.com. *** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:24:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: schwartzgk Subject: Re: Troupe resigns teaching post over resume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Gallaher" To: Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 2:39 PM Subject: Re: Troupe resigns teaching post over resume > RS writes: > > African-American laureates to go after? So we had a discussion about > why Daniel Hoffman, Pennsylvania's laureate, has never offended > anyone.> > > I Reply: > > Should he have? > > _JG I'd add: How should he have? GS > -------------------- > > > "Always in a foreign country, > the poet uses poetry as interpreter." > --Edmond Jabes > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:16:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: Troupe/Hoffman In-Reply-To: <005d01c29cad$065b09a0$479cf943@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII And I add: who the hell is Daniel Hoffman? Right, OK, I just looked at his AAP page -- publications, awards, trappings of officialdom -- he was even U.S. Laureate-equivalent in the early 70s. "The Center of Attention" is a fairly decent poem, somewhat painfully literal, about a man trying to decide whether to jump off a bridge, crowd watching: And now each rung brings him nearer, Nearer to their condition Which is not sufficiently interesting To detain them from business or idleness either, Or is too close to a despair They do not dare Exhibit before a crowd Or admit to themselves they share. That lapse into rhyme is a bit strange, no? Cheesy like a Broadway break-into-song? I'm being dense -- doesn't Ashbery have a well-known poem about a man jumping off a building? I'm always interested in putting two subject-sharing poems together, esp. from "opposite camps" -- anybody feel like reminding me what JA poem it is, and suggesting a little comparison/contrast? The rest of the Hoffman is at http://www.poets.org/poems/poems.cfm?prmID=1134 One thought about that chimey stanza: it sorta speaks to the whole political poetry question, in its way. When I say "painfully literal" I'm copping to a certain attitude that it's really impossible for me to un-learn at this point, nor would I exactly want to -- i.e. a poetry that engages the subject like prose just isn't interesting or effective. But without that literalness, the only version of "political poetry" that makes any sense to me at all is what Jeffrey refers to as "the formalism-as-politics that Language Poetry so convincingly theorized." Or maybe the detournement stuff that Brian Kim Stefans and others have been doing -- but then situationist art and poetry are not nearly the same thing. I guess the detournement things to me are the link between "abstract" poetry and direct political discussion as manifested on this list -- a continuum, where one side, I'm sure, though I can't quite articulate how, feeds the other. -- Damian On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:24:04 -0500 schwartzgk wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J Gallaher" > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 2:39 PM > Subject: Re: Troupe resigns teaching post over resume > > > > RS writes: > > > > > African-American laureates to go after? So we had a discussion about > > why Daniel Hoffman, Pennsylvania's laureate, has never offended > > anyone.> > > > > I Reply: > > > > Should he have? > > > > _JG > > I'd add: > > How should he have? > > GS > > -------------------- > > > > > > "Always in a foreign country, > > the poet uses poetry as interpreter." > > --Edmond Jabes > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:07:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Troupe resigns teaching post over resume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I hope at this very moment faculty at Grambling State University are voting to award Quincy Troupe an honorary B.A. Mairead >>> Gallaher@MAIL.UCA.EDU 12/05/02 14:47 PM >>> RS writes: I Reply: Should he have? _JG -------------------- "Always in a foreign country, the poet uses poetry as interpreter." --Edmond Jabes ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:49:46 -0800 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CALL FOR POETRY SUBMISSIONS parlorgames is a San Francisco-based publication dedicated to what is new and true in contemporary poetry. All styles are welcome, with preference given to poems that pull rabbits from their hats, enter a doorway as if it were an opening for rhapsody, and, in the end, take the tops off of our heads. We will be reading submissions until January 15, 2003. Unsolicited manuscripts will not be returned unless accompanied by a SASE. Please limit submissions to three poems. Simultaneous submissions are accepted if noted. Manuscripts accepted for publication become the property of parlorgames unless otherwise indicated. All rights reserved. All rights revert to the author upon publication. Please send submissions to: parlorgames Attn: parlormaster 1266 Fulton St. San Francisco, CA 94117 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:44:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Fwd: Dodie Bellamy & Kevin Killian @ Dawsons, 7pm Sunday! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Status: U >From: Andrew Maxwell >To: "Dodie Bellamy (E-mail)" >Subject: Dodie Bellamy & Kevin Killian @ Dawsons, 7pm Sunday! >Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:07:39 -0800 > >The Germ and the Poetic Research Bloc present: > >Dodie Bellamy & Kevin Killian > >Sunday, December 8 at 7pm at Dawson's Book Shop! > >*** > >Monstrous wit, kickin' kink and visceral stink! This is the season finale, >cub scouts, where the audience inclines its sparky cheek toward the podium >and flares its nostrils: it's the corpse-flower of hothouse prose brought to >you by San Francisco's devilish dyad of camp contusion, Kevin Killian and >Dodie Bellamy! Their books bug out! Bully butterworts snaring literary >weekenders in flytrap glam and gumshoe goo! But can you detect the >coochi-coo? > >Special 'adult' time: 7pm! At Dawsons... > >*** > >Dodie Bellamy's books include Feminine Hijinx (Hanuman, 1990), Real: The >Letters of Mina Harker and Sam D'Allesandro (Talisman House, 1995) and The >Letters of Mina Harker (Hard Press, 1998), as well as three chapbooks, which >include Answer (Leave Books, 1992) and Broken English (Meow, 1996). Most >recently, Bellamy published a feminist doubletake on the Burroughs collage >method using prose poems, Cunt-Ups (Tender Buttons, 2001). She is currently >working on The Fourth Form, a multi-dimensional sex novel. With Kevin >Killian, she has published over 100 issues of the literary magazine Mirage >#4. For many years she directed the Small Press Traffic reading series in >San Francisco. >Kevin Killian is a poet, novelist, critic and playwright. He has written a >novel, Shy (1989), a book of memoirs, Bedrooms Have Windows (1989), and >three chapbooks, Desiree (1986), Santa (1995), and The Kink of Chris Komater >(1999). In the last few years he has published: a new novel, Arctic Summer >(1997), and a book of stories, Little Men (1996), which won the PEN Oakland >award for fiction. His first book of poetry, Argento Series, appeared from >Krupskaya in 2001. With Lew Ellingham, Killian has written many essays and >articles on the life and work of the American poet Jack Spicer [1925-65] and >co-edited Spicer's posthumous books The Train of Thought and The Tower of >Babel (both 1994). Their biography of Spicer, Poet Be Like God: Jack Spicer >and the San Francisco Renaissance was published by Wesleyan University Press >in 1998. He is writing a new novel Spreadeagle, and a sequel to his memoirs >called Bachelors Get Lonely. >*** >Doors open at 7. Readings at 7:30. > >Dawson's Book Shop is located at 535 N. Larchmont Blvd between Beverly Blvd >and Melrose Blvd in the Larchmont district south of Hollywood, CA. >Bookstore Tel: 213-469-2186 > >Readings are open to all. $3 donation requested for poets/venue. > >Call Andrew at 310.446.8162 x233 for more info. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:26:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: Re: Mal Waldron In-Reply-To: from "Nick Piombino" at Dec 5, 2002 03:24:58 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nick, Thanks for this. I played Waldron's fantastic "Fire Waltz" for my students today - O'Hara was, I'm pretty sure, there to hear it at the Five Spot in 1961 (it coincided w/ a benefit that weekend for the Floating Bear.) Incidentally, for anyone who might be interested, my article "Tribes of New York: Frank O'Hara, Amiri Baraka and the Poetics of the Five Spot" (in Contemporary Literature 42.4) includes a reading of "The Day Lady Died" where I argue for Waldron's importance to the poem - that he figures there not just as Holiday's sometime piano man but, truer to his actual role in the GV scene, as an important player in the new jazz avant-garde, accompanying Dolphy, Booker Little, Mingus and Steve Lacy among others during that period when O'Hara was a Five Spot regular. -m. According to Nick Piombino: > > Today, WKCR is playing Mal Waldron recordings all day in a memorial to that > terrific composer and jazz musician who just died. I remembered that he is > mentioned in a classic poem by Frank O'Hara and thought it was from -Poem- > in which he writes "Lana Turner has collapsed!" But, of course, it is from > > THE DAY LADY DIED > > It is 12:20 in New York a Friday > three days after Bastille day, yes > it is 1959 and I go get a shoeshine > because I will get off the 4:19 in Easthampton > at 7:15 and then go straight to dinner > and I don't know the people who will feed me > > I walk up the muggy street beginning to sun > and have a hamburger and a malted and buy > an ugly NEW WORLD WRITING to see what the poets > in Ghana are doing these days > I go on to the bank > and Miss Stillwagon (first name Linda I once heard) > doesn't even look up my balance for once in her life > and in the GOLDEN GRIFFIN I go get a little Verlaine > for Patsy with drawings by Bonnard although I do > think of Hesiod, trans. Richard Lattimore or > Brendan Behan's new play or Le Balcon or Les Negres > of Genet, but I don't, I stick with Verlaine > after practically going to sleep with quandariness > > and for Mike I just stroll into the PARK LANE > Liquor Store and ask for a bottle of Strega and > then I go back to where I came from to 6th Avenue > and the tobacconist in the Ziegfield Theatre and > casually ask for a carton of Gauloises and a carton > of Picayunes, and a NEW YORK POST with her face on it > > and I am sweating a lot by now and thinking of > leaning on the john door in the 5 SPOT > while she whispered a song along the keyboard > to Mal Waldron and everyone and I stopped breathing > > - > > I can't believe it is only today that I completely understood the point of > O'Hara evoking all these details of the moment he learned Billie Holiday > died. Of course it comes from the nearly universal experience of never > forgetting, including the permanent retaining of some vivid visual memories, > the day we experience a crucial trauma as in, of course, the classic knowing > where you were at the moment of learning of a great public tragedy- such as > the unforgettably upsetting day John Lennon was murdered. > > Nick > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:18:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Kuszai" Subject: troop, oh but its messy In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" heard story recently about hamilton college president, who cribbed more than a couple speeches - a beloved, dedicated member of the college community. somehow had some kind of "problem" causing him to plagiarize his speeches. after he was forced to resign (http://www.hamilton.edu/news/more_news/display.cfm?ID=5095) many trustees attacked the faculty, saying he'd been singled out, many of them arguing that in fact speeches are "different" from writing, etc. anyhow- i raise the story because the problem is this perceived sense of integrity, ethical code about originality(or honesty--and note troupe's further comments after being questioned about it after the scandal arose, comments which turned out not to be true) these values seem like something to talk about - not so much to be dispensing with this sense of propriety which motivates the hunger for it within such an institutional context. did doris kearns goodwin lose her job? did what's his name, that historian man? forcing troupe to retire simply reinforces the idea that the pedigree, the papers, are worth more than what you do...his tragic loss of gainful employment is not where the tragedies lies...certainly the sense that motivated the lie, the value of that move - the pressure to represent in such a manner - seems the real problem. that he lied seems like something that in another context would have been smoothed over somehow. i like mairead's hope for him; that seems a good response. i must admit to being more than a little shocked at first by seeing ashbery and troupe on the same stage in damian's post, one evaluated against the other, but think this might be an interesting thing to try here. and i think in an unstated manner that it already goes on here in any case. when many of us criticize another, or some poet or some activity, we often do so with a sense of what "ought" to be -- and i don't mean that everyone who does this is doing so with a puritanical sense of it, or as prescriptive authoritarians, though it makes sense also that it would be read that way, especially here in this space which requires more eyes for ears. i've been reading and listening to recordings of george oppen. the rocks outlived the classicists, the rocks and the lobstermen's huts,""etc.etc. (digress, if you can guess) for my time (which is the cost of participation here, i suppose) some of the most valuable interventions on the list have been motivated by a sense of poetic value, perhaps a subset of values generally, and i'm interested in warrants and the sense of hegemania that pervades discourse in most places, not to mention on this list. i'm not for it, and only when the bad guys need to be beaten down at 10:52, it is sometimes very cathartic. one doesn't have to be booed off the stage to imagine how it feels, and i'm sure to many in the "majority" our projects here amount to a kind of "outsider art" - if by that it's possible to indicate the most extreme form of marginalization possible. for that reason, i thought that rathman's reviews of a couple seasons ago seemed like they were just getting to the place where their critical mass was an articulation of at least one clearly stated belief system, a notation of thought inscribed in time. and i say clearly stated, but mean i guess opaque in the sense of pop and fizz that must be the case - meaning that it's not simple and requires elaboration over time - something difficult to sustain - that ron is doing that on his blog seems an adequate gesture: i'll take that over self-induced silence anytime (thinking of the white-space-cash-currency of oppen's silence, a sort of st. george on every poetry bill, underneath which is written "i prefer not" and "it just took me twenty five years to write the next poem") or, thinking of something about a poetics of statement, and wonder for whom and for what such catharsis or, say, what the value of witness is (thinking about how someone like ammiel alcalay or susan howe complicate the meaning of that word) -- even then, thinking of say a poetics - journalism - and simultaneous flashbulbs, photographing ikea chic with necessary wisdom of a late twentysomething, the so-called 'generation x' (pardon the digression) and appreciate greatly editorial statements of all sorts- thinking of juliana's response to ron on his blog that articulation and argument aren't the same thing. i think many of us developed an aversion to "editorial statements" at a time when there was a glut on editorial statements (hard to believe but then i'm "in a different place" - duh - and have been isolated from "what's happening" whatever that is -- i'm just guessing something is happening) only there is a quarrelsome sense which obscures the natures and centers of what's happening - (send me a note: what is happening?) so a post that there is a meeting about "political poetry" is posed as a reading, but really this is a meeting. i hope we will get a report, or i hope that we don't wait to have that meeting here. it seems tragic that this list gets used as a forum and that the mania which pervades doesn't allow for a sustained exploration. why is that? what would it take to develop something over a period of months or years? ammiel alcalay and anne waldman plan to have some kind of meeting. it sounds terrific and perhaps there is some value to getting together in a small isolated group to discuss something in a room. what would be discussed? i hope to know more about this and encourage them to have such a conversation here. the reports on this list pale in comparison to the announcements. does this mean that the gatherings aren't valuable? that nothing interesting or useful is discussed? doubt it. most likely people are invested in a local community and have little for what this forum could present (those people who live in areas without many gatherings of the sort advertised here probably understand this better than any). And that's cool, frankly. but it is a symptom. symptomatic, synecdochic imagine the tone of the pissing contest in the context of an international forum to discuss our ideas about what to do. such a pissy fight wouldn't last ten seconds. i think only the people on the list can change the tone of the list. this public sphere seems a requisite testing ground for some of the behaviors that would be required to really do anything about what is happening "out there" in the political world. on that count, i think there is something that can be really done to stop the war in iraq and i actually believe that it can and will be stopped. but my will and hope won't work on their own. i've actually had good luck, hearing back from committee staffers. if you write a good letter, i'm convinced that someone will read it. getting a letter back may seem like small consequence. i've been spamming the cnn site with letters the profile of which would look something like "lefty connie chung fan" -- and ends with stuff like "just a vote to let you know that we're out here" -- black elvis on the headphones anyhow, i'm shopping around for lists that offer alternative modes of dealing with response. perhaps blogging? certainly this is the kind of thing (here, this post) best saved for the blog-space. but in replace of what? in addition, writing poems and reading them to small cultic groups seems hardly a response. but a great time, don't get me wrong - i miss such gatherings and think that if nothing else they provide some kind of company, which again is no small thing. bickering here likewise seems a drain on the spirt and the energy. think of the energy expended - will it simply be deleted? imbued value seems compelling in and of itself. to return to the quincy troupe thing: i really like "poem for magic" (which has been at the factory school website since its founding) -- but i'm not sure why...it's complicated...something saved for the lecture hall...but suffice to say i'm worried that the "rhyme" as its conceived here is at quite a remove from how rhyme might be functioning in his poetry. in this respect, ashbery might look totally different (and no better frankly) on different terms and conditions - . one of the first things we encounter is this vertical hierarchy of values, serving as tradition or lineage...i'm curious to know how people receive these things, one of the reasons i enjoyed reading rathman's posts - like many of the posts on this list, in fact there is something very useful about "poem for magic" -- it seems as formally interesting to me as anything going on in so called experimental poetry (http://www.factoryschool.org/content/sounds/poetry/troupe/troupe1.ram) given the status of contemporary poetry, its relation to its own condition of production and distribution and reception, it seems that a poem for magic is pretty relevant. a poem about the shake-n-bake moves of a basketball player seems oddly no less distant, no less "formal" (i hesitate to say "empty" but i guess that's what i mean, though a more extended read of this poem is certainly warrented- it is no less at a remove from something that might be called "political poetry" recent spd catalog announces "culture" - poetry book of late daniel davidson, his work was a move to extend the activist potential of the work, or the activity of work as an investment in social change of course this isn't the language of the catalog, but i've not got the catalog with me, though i think of dan, his work, and hope perhaps we can start with him, since he actually was "getting somewhere" as are many others (who are they? i think there are people out there people believe in -- and perhaps starting with this sense of that which we know to be good and useful, rather than constantly nitpicking and fighting over morsels of breath -- and i'm sorry to be so cheezy about it, but having wanted to go to the buffalo reading, and alas being unable to do so for multiple reasons, not the least of which is the weather, and actively seeking a new way of thinking, paths towards solution, please... jimmius of ithaca -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:07:22 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Loden Subject: awopbopaloobop In-Reply-To: <200212051214.gB5CEYZ07390@morse.concentric.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, Pierre, for the reminder. Once upon a time I was in talks with Little Richard's manager about a blurb. But that's another story. . . . The Little Richard Story The god of Abraham is a true God. Now we gonna do "Rip It Up." --Reverend Richard Penniman Nothing is talking to you in the numbers, in the leaves. No mambo mambo on the wind. No colored streamers in the skies. No one has pasted little notes to you, like kisses. No Fred, no Ginger, no sudden bursting into Stone Age languages. No angels clustered in the rafters. No giants sacked out on the stove. On a day like this, without the music of appearances, creatures could land and you would not be able to explain anything to them, not the fearless industry of beavers, or why dust bunnies prefer the dark, not even how Little Richard himself came into being. ---------------------------------------------------------- Your most serene sows have deigned to devour my humble potatoes. Rachel Loden http://www.thepomegranate.com/loden/ rloden@concentric.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:30:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: Re: Mal Waldron In-Reply-To: <200212060126.gB61QKsf023958@dept.english.upenn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit someone probably mentioned this already, but one terrific Mal Waldron album is "The Quest" (which includes the beautiful "Warm Canto")--Waldron is the leader and Dolphy is one of the side-men. Predictably, the album was later "re-issued" as an Eric Dolphy album (I forget its name). This isn't, of course, meant as a slam of Dolphy . . . --Tenney mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn POG: mailto:pog@gopog.org http://www.gopog.org > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Michael Magee > Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 6:26 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Mal Waldron > > > Nick, Thanks for this. I played Waldron's fantastic "Fire Waltz" for my > students today - O'Hara was, I'm pretty sure, there to hear it at the Five > Spot in 1961 (it coincided w/ a benefit that weekend for the Floating > Bear.) Incidentally, for anyone who might be interested, my article > "Tribes of New York: Frank O'Hara, Amiri Baraka and the Poetics of the > Five Spot" (in Contemporary Literature 42.4) includes a reading of "The > Day Lady Died" where I argue for Waldron's importance to the poem - that > he figures there not just as Holiday's sometime piano man but, truer to > his actual role in the GV scene, as an important player in the new jazz > avant-garde, accompanying Dolphy, Booker Little, Mingus and Steve Lacy > among others during that period when O'Hara was a Five Spot regular. > > -m. > > According to Nick Piombino: > > > Today, WKCR is playing Mal Waldron recordings all day in a > memorial to that > > terrific composer and jazz musician who just died. I remembered > that he is > > mentioned in a classic poem by Frank O'Hara and thought it was > from -Poem- > > in which he writes "Lana Turner has collapsed!" But, of course, > it is from > > > > THE DAY LADY DIED > > > > It is 12:20 in New York a Friday > > three days after Bastille day, yes > > it is 1959 and I go get a shoeshine > > because I will get off the 4:19 in Easthampton > > at 7:15 and then go straight to dinner > > and I don't know the people who will feed me > > > > I walk up the muggy street beginning to sun > > and have a hamburger and a malted and buy > > an ugly NEW WORLD WRITING to see what the poets > > in Ghana are doing these days > > I go on to the bank > > and Miss Stillwagon (first name Linda I once heard) > > doesn't even look up my balance for once in her life > > and in the GOLDEN GRIFFIN I go get a little Verlaine > > for Patsy with drawings by Bonnard although I do > > think of Hesiod, trans. Richard Lattimore or > > Brendan Behan's new play or Le Balcon or Les Negres > > of Genet, but I don't, I stick with Verlaine > > after practically going to sleep with quandariness > > > > and for Mike I just stroll into the PARK LANE > > Liquor Store and ask for a bottle of Strega and > > then I go back to where I came from to 6th Avenue > > and the tobacconist in the Ziegfield Theatre and > > casually ask for a carton of Gauloises and a carton > > of Picayunes, and a NEW YORK POST with her face on it > > > > and I am sweating a lot by now and thinking of > > leaning on the john door in the 5 SPOT > > while she whispered a song along the keyboard > > to Mal Waldron and everyone and I stopped breathing > > > > - > > > > I can't believe it is only today that I completely understood > the point of > > O'Hara evoking all these details of the moment he learned Billie Holiday > > died. Of course it comes from the nearly universal experience of never > > forgetting, including the permanent retaining of some vivid > visual memories, > > the day we experience a crucial trauma as in, of course, the > classic knowing > > where you were at the moment of learning of a great public > tragedy- such as > > the unforgettably upsetting day John Lennon was murdered. > > > > Nick > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:30:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: TO OUR BUFFALO FELLOWS IN THIS PREGNANT HOUR MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Can't stand it? Too impatient? Ay, how they deliberate, weighing words on a goldsmith's scale. We await them! Ssh, and lay quiet, my pixy kith. Let us hold off below these winter cabbages upon our good parliament of peace as with bookmarks, until the first trumpet of answers strides from out that Rust Belt Books, 202 Allen Street, Buffalo, NY, a victory wreath. Their footprints in the snow, an Americana monument! Well, then, Hop-O'-My-Thumb, appease your eager bladder with this goodly map, whereupon a gelding can trace with his Hansel finger whither the snow-bowed roof that shelters them this epic night, 202 Allen Street, Buffalo, NY, lays between the parallel byways of Elmwood Ave. and Marinet Street: BEHOLD! http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?BFCat=&Pyt=Tmap&newFL=Use+Address+Below&addr=202+Allen+Street&csz=Buffalo%2C+NY&Country=us&Get%A0Map=Get+Map and feast as a gourmand the belly of your eyes--- Another bounteous gift?! A "gift of terror"? But no, O golden-livered! See for yourself a photograph of the storefront of the Rust Belt Books store: AND MARVEL! http://www.digitalcity.com/buffalo/shopping/details.adp?companykey=107556520 as one peeping through. Three hours they've been sealed in conclave. Hush. Let us convene inside the morrow, chastened by sleep, and then resume our talk of detournements and effect. No doubt The Thirteen fortify their heaving bellies on mead and haggis, the food of poets, in some toasty inn. Christopher Alexander our List moderator, Sarah Campbell, Barbara Cole, Thom Donovan, Kristen Gallagher, Geppetto Gatza, Gordon Hadfield, Nike Lawrence one smart cookie, Michael Rosendal, Kyle Schlesinger, Tim Shaner the town crier, Jonathan Skinner of Ecopoetics, Sasha Steensen,--- come out! Come on out! {drum roll} Come out and let your fair findings be our how-de-do! Then, farewell, Bewilderment! __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 23:44:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Massoud the Afghan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Just saw Christophe de Ponfilly's "Massoud the Afghan" at Film Forum. I don't know how much distribution it has, but it's here in New York for anyone who wants to see it, and no doubt elsewhere. It's centered around Ahmed Shah Massoud, the Northern Alliance leader who was assassinated on 9/9/01. The footage goes back to the 80s, from earlier of Ponfilly's projects. It's an amazing documentary. In one scene, halfway through the film, Massoud reads the paper, in which there's a poem, which he reads aloud & then explicates to some degree for everyone in the room. Asked if he "reads a lot" by the filmmaker, Massoud replies, "I read, whenever I have time, poems." I thought that was interesting, "poems" and not "poetry." Couldn't tell really, because it's of course in translation. But that he seemed to be indicating "instances" as opposed to "body of work" or "tradition," assuming the translation was accurate. But also, that poems were there, in the paper, and people reading them, and that in the midst of (at the time) a 19-year-old war, still of value. The film is also useful as a kind of political history lesson of Afghanistan, including of course both Pakistani and American interests in the region (oil pipelines). It's a shame this isn't on TV. A pressure group to get it on TV where it would be seen by other than NYC liberals (like me) paying for the experience would be nice. Maybe a project for enthusiasts who've been getting somewhere with letter-writing campaigns? (Digression ...) Daniel Davidson's name has come up a couple of times here, once by someone who thought his work was too hermetic, once by someone who thought he was "getting somewhere." I'm not sure what to think about either response--he did kill himself, after all, and leave his friends with that. Not sure people realize the kind of guilt one's suicided friends carry around. And I don't mean that glibly. Like, you feel, for much of your life following that, that you were responsible, for "allowing" him to do that. Because you weren't able to stop it. Change the trajectory. My sense reading both posts about him was that neither reader had really read what he was writing terribly closely, or maybe that it wasn't really considered in some larger sense ... or something. I don't think he was hermetic; but at the same time, if he was getting somewhere, where was it? Suicide? As Benjamin Friedlander clearly stated in the blurb that one poster seemed to have conveniently not remembered, this really was the end-result of his "project." It's an end that I think Ben, and myself, and probably anyone who doesn't believe in Heaven, is going to find untenable. To say the least. One wants political models whose "way out" is not, necessarily, self-obliteration. If at all possible. Not to deride Dan's project. At all. Because it was anything but "hermetic." But to understand where it--actually--led him. That ought to be taken into account. And some attempt made to understand why. End of digression. See the movie. It's great. And, I think, potentially generative, Gary _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 23:50:08 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Troupe resigns teaching post over resume In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" hey, cd we start a petition to them? At 7:07 PM -0500 12/5/02, Mairead Byrne wrote: >I hope at this very moment faculty at Grambling State University are >voting to award Quincy Troupe an honorary B.A. >Mairead > > >>>> Gallaher@MAIL.UCA.EDU 12/05/02 14:47 PM >>> >RS writes: > >African-American laureates to go after? So we had a discussion about >why Daniel Hoffman, Pennsylvania's laureate, has never offended >anyone.> > >I Reply: > >Should he have? > > _JG > >-------------------- > > >"Always in a foreign country, >the poet uses poetry as interpreter." > --Edmond Jabes -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 00:18:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: TELEGRAM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII TELEGRAM WE CAN DO EVERYTHING AND NOTHING. STOP. ARE THE OPERATOR OF WATCHING EROSION DEMOCRATIC PROCESSES IN UNITED STATES IS PARITY WITH OTHER NATIONS TIMES. STOP. MORE THAN EVER, OUR PROTEST FUTILE IRRELEVANT; AT HANDS AN OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE MADMAN WHOSE TOTAL FOREIGN DOMESTIC POLICY DEPENDENT ON WAR SLAUGHTER. STOP. RADIO TELEVISION, POPULATION SUBJECT TO CONSTANT VIOLENT PROPAGANDA AGAINST IRAQ. STOP. NO MATTER WHAT NEWS; OCCURS OVERSEAS, NEVER CHANGES. STOP. IT REMAINS VIRULENT REPETITIVE. STOP. ANY NATION HISTORY PREPARING OTHER. STOP. LOOKING FOR A HOOK, EXCUSE ATTACK. STOP. SUBJUGATING ITS INTO SUBMISSION. STOP. POWER HAS MADE CLEAR THAT AMOUNT NATIVE OR HATRED DISAPPROVAL WILL HAVE EFFECT. STOP. AS SINGLE-MINDED PSYCHOPATH SUTURING HIS WORLDS, THIS BRING WORLD BRINK POTENTIAL NUCLEAR BEYOND. STOP. OPPOSITION STRANGLED BY CONTINUOUS MOURNING, CONSTRUCTED RITES RITUALS, PARANOIA OVER FUTURE. STOP. MOURNING ALSO OCCASION CULTIVATION ANGER NATIONALISM; SPLITS MOBIUS FURY. STOP. NOTHING STOP ARMAGEDDON WHEN PROCEEDS FROM WITHIN; APOCALYPSE PROCESS, SEWING SELF BACK TOGETHER, ONCE ALL. STOP. KILL US BEFORE KILL; WOUND WOUND; SPEAK GIVEN REPETITION. STOP. we can do everything and nothing. STOP. we are the operator of nothing. STOP. watching the erosion of democratic processes in the united states is watching parity with other nations and other times. STOP. more than ever, our protest is futile and irrelevant; we are at the hands of an obsessive- compulsive madman whose total foreign and domestic policy is dependent on war and slaughter. STOP. on radio and television, the population is subject to constant violent propaganda against iraq. STOP. no matter what the news; no matter what occurs overseas, the propaganda never changes. STOP. it remains virulent and repetitive. STOP. it is any nation in history preparing against any other. STOP. it is any nation looking for a hook, an excuse for attack. STOP. and it is any nation subjugating its population into submission. STOP. the madman in power has made it clear that no amount of native or foreign hatred or disapproval will have any effect. STOP. as single-minded as the psychopath suturing his worlds, this madman will bring the world to the brink of potential nuclear war and beyond. STOP. our opposition is strangled by continuous processes of mourning, construc- ted rites and rituals, and paranoia over the future. STOP. mourning is also an occasion for the cultivation of anger and nationalism; paranoia splits into the mobius of fury. STOP. nothing will stop armageddon when it proceeds from within; apocalypse is a continuous process, sewing the self back together, once and for all. STOP. kill us before we kill; wound us before we wound; speak to us before we are given the rites of repetition. STOP. === ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 00:28:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bernard Waldrop Subject: on Edmond Jabes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Just out from Wesleyan UP: LAVISH ABSENCE: RECALLING AND REREADING EDMOND JABES by Rosmarie Waldrop. Foreword by Richard Stamelman An intimate portrait of one of France's most important writers by his translator. Edmond Jabes (1912-1991) is widely regarded as one of France's most important writers of the 20th century. Born in Cairo, he settled in France after begin expelled from Egypt with other Jews during the 1856 Suez Crisis. Rosmarie Waldrop is Jabes's primary English translator. Over the course of her long association and friendship with Jabes, Waldrop developed a very nuanced understanding of his work that in turn influenced her development as both writer and translator. LAVISH ABSENCE is a book-length essay with a triple focus: it is a memoir of Jabes as Waldrop knew him, it is both an homage to and an explication of Jabes's work, and it is a meditation on the process of translation. The writing interweaves these topics, evoking Jabes's interest in the themes of exile and nomadism. "LAVISH ABSENCE is a comprehensive yet intimate introduction to the writing and thought of Edmond Jabes, a critical figure for 20th-century poetry and philosophy. It is also a welcome articulation of Rosmarie Waldrop's own poetics."-Charles Bernstein 150 pp. Cloth 0-8195-6579-2 $45 Paper 0-8195-6580-6 $17.95 Publication November 2002 Order from your local bookstore or from: UPNE (800) 421-1561, University.Press@Dartmouth.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 23:13:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: troop, oh but its messy In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > i must admit to being more than a little shocked at first by seeing > ashbery and troupe on the same stage in damian's post, one evaluated > against the other, but think this might be an interesting thing to > try here. and i think in an unstated manner that it already goes on > here in any case. Actually it was Ashbery and Daniel Hoffman, just to clarify. "Troupe" merely lingered in the subject line. Given the transposition, I can see why Joel would be "a little shocked" -- I don't think I'd even know on what grounds to begin a comparison between Troupe and Ashbery, unless by a kind of six-degrees-of-Amiri-Baraka maneuver. Thanks to Andrew Epstein for reminding me that it's Ashbery's "Illustration" (from Some Trees) I was thinking of -- A novice was sitting on a cornice High over the city. Angels Combined their prayers with those Of the police, begging her to come off it ... Comparing this with Hoffman's "Center of Attention" would work great in the classroom -- many points of consonance and dissonance ("But how could we tell / That of the truth we know, she was // The somber vestment?" roughly corresponding to the rhymed stanza from Hoffman). This ain't my blog, however, so I won't pursue this as a thread-unto-myself. Best, Damian <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 00:43:41 -0800 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Re: Troupe resigns teaching post over resume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll sign... c Maria Damon wrote: > hey, cd we start a petition to them? > > At 7:07 PM -0500 12/5/02, Mairead Byrne wrote: > >I hope at this very moment faculty at Grambling State University are > >voting to award Quincy Troupe an honorary B.A. > >Mairead > > > > > >>>> Gallaher@MAIL.UCA.EDU 12/05/02 14:47 PM >>> > >RS writes: > > > > >African-American laureates to go after? So we had a discussion about > >why Daniel Hoffman, Pennsylvania's laureate, has never offended > >anyone.> > > > >I Reply: > > > >Should he have? > > > > _JG > > > >-------------------- > > > > > >"Always in a foreign country, > >the poet uses poetry as interpreter." > > --Edmond Jabes > > -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 21:53:04 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: awopbopaloobop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Have you heard of Bill Millet? Richard taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rachel Loden" To: Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 5:07 PM Subject: awopbopaloobop > Thanks, Pierre, for the reminder. Once upon a time I was in talks with > Little Richard's manager about a blurb. But that's another story. . . . > > > The Little Richard Story > > > The god of Abraham is a true God. Now > we gonna do "Rip It Up." > --Reverend Richard Penniman > > > Nothing is talking to you > in the numbers, in the leaves. > No mambo mambo on the wind. > No colored streamers in the skies. > No one has pasted little notes > to you, like kisses. > No Fred, no Ginger, > no sudden bursting > into Stone Age languages. > No angels clustered in the rafters. > No giants sacked out on the stove. > > On a day like this, > without the music > of appearances, creatures > could land and you > would not be able to explain > anything to them, not > the fearless industry > of beavers, or why dust bunnies > prefer the dark, not even > how Little Richard > himself came into being. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > Your most serene sows have deigned to devour my humble potatoes. > > Rachel Loden > http://www.thepomegranate.com/loden/ > rloden@concentric.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 04:06:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: anti-war poetry reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Buffalo Anti-War reading made for an enjoyable evening. It was not the soap box stomping I feared it might turn into. There was a strong possiblity of a 60's activist reading of bongo beating and flag burning singing alternating rounds of give peace a chance. Thankfully there was no radicalism outside of the nature of the poetry presented. The main political message might have been complete disbelief a rational civilizilised society would engage in such a thing as war when we have learned all of our lives that this is haphazzard and wrong. This was nice as the focus was on poetry that included current politics not current politics with line breaks. It was a packed house in Rust Belt books (and if you are not fimiliar with the store it is Buffalo's best used book shop!) and the event was divided into two sections, a reading then a discussion. I could only stay for the reading so I'll talk on that and maybe someone else can fill in on the discussion. Our generation does embrace this idea of political poetry while remaining true to the ideals of poetry. Jonathan Skinner read a rant against Formal Poetry. These possibly being his articles of war :-) Irony in the form of humor was brought up in the form of found texts and cut-ups. People read the greats like Borgies and Beckett (that was spliced with newspaper quotes). One poet read a beautiful poem written especially for the event and her use of language was of the school of buffalo sound but cleverly escaped that Language : The Next Generation humdrum. Other poets used correspondence and personal notes to bring a personal intamacy of real people and their responses. Another reading off, in a machine gun style, a long list of book titles that start with 'War'. One poet blithely used biblical blather to demonize the US as the whore of Babylon. All in all it was a great night of poetry and cold weather. Best, Geppetto Gatza ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Jullich" To: Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 12:59 AM Subject: Re: anti-war poetry reading > I hope some of these Buffalo anti-war poetry > readers/explorers report back on the event. I'm very > curious: Tim's question ("What might anti-war > literature look like today, in a time quite different > than the 60s/70s, the period we reflexively think of > when discussing an anti-war movement. How has > theory/poetics changed how we approach this subject? > What's at stake here?") couldn't be more timely to our > agreed purpose of poetics nor, to me, more > bewildering. I wanted to follow up on Joe Safdie's > recent post about the same problem ("imaginative art > that can incorporate some response to -- and even > provide a chronicle of -- this recent chain of > terrifying events. I feel that the poets alive today > will eventually be seen as among the most shameful > practitioners of the art if we don't produce such > work"; see > > http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0211&L=poetics&P=R50484&I= -3&m=57246), > > but it was a topic no one pursued. I tracked down > Barrett Watten's ~Critical Inquiry~ essay, "The Turn > toward Language in the 60s," and Andrea Brady's > less-harsh-on-Language-Poetry-than-originally-reported > "Grief" essay in ~Radical Philosophy,~ hoping for some > guiding light,--- but was left just as mystified (W.S. > Merwin's opacity, a precursor to Language Poetry??) > and stymied by the trail of cookie crumbs leading > further into a dark forest with the Charles Altieri > reference that only elsewhere would prove why Denise > Levertov's political transparency had become laughable > and unsupportable. > > Recently, I went through a series of back-channels > with someone who wrote me exhorting that any future > issues of the journal that I edited, LOGOPOEIA > > ( http://www.logopoeialogopoeia.da.ru/ ), > > dedicate it more to a recommitment to > > political poetry, > > a "dare" I still find myself baffled over, ---as no > one in fact seems to be ~writing~ that kind of poetry, > at least in explicit/content-based terms. ...Or, as > Altieri may have said, that it leads almost > immediately into "bad" poetry. > > Joe wrote that "abstract and apolitical lyrics flood > this listserv", and, among other question marks, I was > left wondering--- whether by "abstract" what he wasn't > rather hitting upon might be that Pater's dictum of > "all arts aspire to the condition of music" has in > fact been ~reached~ in "our style" of poetry; and if > that plateau, which he sees as "abstract," doesn't > engender brand new problems as far as political > referentialism--- much like a composer of instrumental > music asking how new music could be political or > anti-war. (Are those shadows of lumbering giants that > I hear Prokofiev orchestrating into the symphonies of > his that I've been listening to this week abstract > critiques of Stalinism? Isn't the politics of > monarchy ~audible~ in the abstract music that the > Esterhazys commissioned? ...And likewise an > anti-anti-semitism / anti-eugenic-exclusivism equally > materialized in the tonal all-inclusiveness of Second > Vienna School twelve-tonality, etc., etc., etc.?) > > I wonder too, unlike the allegedly risible Levertov > poem that reported about her actual protesters' park > occupation experience, whether the first kind of new > anti-war or political poetry that facilely comes to > mind wouldn't in fact be poetry about ~media > representations~ of the political > (newspapers/television), and hence actually a boojum > of ---excuse me--- Baudrillard's hyperreal, rather > than realpolitik. I.e., is it political to say "This > is what I read in the newspaper"? > > Etc. > > Barrett Watten's recent post about Tanya and the > Simbionese Liberation Army as examples of "radical > irrationalism" was tantalizing,--- but it left the > reader desperately in need of elaboration: When Watten > says "I would propose that current social discourses > of terrorism derive from such events", was he > proposing it ~proscriptively,~ in the sense that what > the world (and poetry) needs now is a ~return~ to > Simbionese-style radical irrationalism, sweet radical > irrationalism, hence to build a political poetry upon > its own comedic ungroundedness,--- > > or did he mean that recuperation into > state-vs.-revolutionary irrationalism became the > subsequent discursive ~imprisonment~ that ~prevents~ > political poetry? > > I also tried reading Daniel Davidson's 2002 Krupskaya > book, ~Culture,~ because Ben Friedlander and Gary > Sullivan blurb it as being quintessentially political > (SPD catalog: "One question was foremost in his mind: > just how far can experimental be construed as direct > political action?"; B.F.: "Politics for Dan Davidson > was a site-specific performance art"),--- but, for me, > the book may have crossed over that "just how far" > line and ~no longer~ be so construable, as I was at a > near-total loss to recognize its hermetic > politicality. > > The recurrent craving that these calls to a > neo-political poetry seem to be expressing is for a > poetry other than the formalism-as-politics that > Language Poetry so convincingly theorized. > > So, I find myself thrown back upon the politicality of > minor canonical examples, like the proto-~Paradise~ > neo-Latin "In Quintum Novembris" that the 17-year old > John Milton wrote in reaction to Guy Fawkes' > ("terrorist") gunpowder plot to explode Parliament > House,--- which enacts its poetic politicism entirely > through an imagination of The Beyond: "You have it in > your power to scatter their dismembered bodies through > the air, to burn them to cinders, by exploding nitrous > powder under the halls where they will assemble" > ("Atque dare in cineres, nitrati pulveris igne / > Aedibus iniecto, qua convenere, sub imis": trans. [?] > Merritt Y. Hughes, ~John Milton: Complete Poems and > Major Prose,~ p. 18). > > > I might mention the recent (failed?) attempt of the > e-journal http://www.newmediapoets.com/nmp.html, which > entered into its dedication to drumming up a new > political poetry with even a ~manifesto~ in tow, > against the anachronistic limbo of most current > poetry: "We are a movement of engagement. Always > engaged, we articulate our participation in a culture, > in an economy, in a particular country, now ... We see > beauty in nouns and names, proper and otherwise: Tiger > Woods ... We know these names to be within the > perimeters of the poetic...", however collecting > somewhat oblique work, itself. > > (I should add, I genuinely do believe that the diptych > of poems Garrett Kalleberg published in LOGOPOEIA were > some of the first, best, "post-9/11" poetry I've read: > "I take a draw on a cigarette / which pulls a young > Pakistani man's / hand holding an oiled cloth down the > length / of the barrel of a gun...".) > > Has anyone read the O Books journal Enough that Leslie > Scalapino edited, which also addressed "anti-war > poetry" (SPD: "based on the theme 'Seeing is a form of > change,' this issue investigates warfare and the World > Trade Center bombing", with poetry by our A-List: > McClure, Notley, Bernstein, Davies, A. Berrigan, > Hofer, Joris, Darragh/Inman, Osman, etc., etc.,...)? > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:22:13 -0500 > From: Tim Shaner > Subject: Re: anti-war poetry reading > Comments: To: CORE-L@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, > ENGRAD-LIST@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Re-mind-er: > > Anyone who wishes to read something -- yr own > poetry/prose or somebody > else's -- is welcome to participate in the Rust > Talks event. The list below > is simply a compilation of those who rsvp'd me in > response to the original > invitation. The concept behind the reading/thinking > is exploratory: What > might anti-war literature look like today, in a time > quite different than > the 60s/70s, the period we reflexively think of when > discussing an anti-war > movement. How has theory/poetics changed how we > approach this subject? > What's at stake here? > > See you tomorrow night (Thurs, Dec 5), 8PM Rust Belt > Books, 202 Allen > Street. Don't miss it! > > PS: Please note the additions to the list below. > > > --On Tuesday, December 03, 2002, 12:54 PM -0500 "Tim > Shaner" > wrote: > > > Rust Talks presents > > > > an ANTI-WAR POETRY READING/think tank (what IS > anti-war poetry?) > > > > 8PM Thurs 12/5 > > Rust Belt Books > > 202 Allen Street > > Buffalo, NY > > > > featuring > > > > Christopher Alexander > > Sarah Campbell > > Barbara Cole > > Thom Donovan > > Kristen Gallagher > Geoffrey Gatza > > Gordon Hadfield > > Nick Lawrence > > Michael Rosendal > Kyle Schlesinger > > Tim Shaner > >Jonathan Skinner > > Sasha Steensen > > > > > > and anybody else who wishes to contribute their > voice(s) > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 22:57:56 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: anti-war poetry reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You mean everyone was all dead from the neck up? No fist fights? No ravin rages! Pheww!! Psawww!!! I'll have to send the Phantom to the next one: he'll disprove they are all goody goodies in Buffalo...were they all drinkin milk? Eh? Prescription: more stompin and ragin..this kind of tame happy times has to stop...poets are crazy: where are the Hemmingways, the Olsons, the Dorns. the Spicers, the Keraoucs, the Bukovskis the mad young bastards of yeasteryear?! Where are all the crazy pissheads? What the HELL'S going on!?! I'll see if I can make it next time. Come to think of it I'll email Baraka for him to be at the next one as well....Richard Taylor PS You measure the succes by the amount of booze that was consumed not what anyone said. That's for sissies listening to other poets. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoffrey Gatza" Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 10:06 PM Subject: Re: anti-war poetry reading > The Buffalo Anti-War reading made for an enjoyable evening. It was not the > soap box stomping I feared it might turn into. There was a strong possiblity > of a 60's activist reading of bongo beating and flag burning singing > alternating rounds of give peace a chance. Thankfully there was no > radicalism outside of the nature of the poetry presented. The main political > message might have been complete disbelief a rational civilizilised society > would engage in such a thing as war when we have learned all of our lives > that this is haphazzard and wrong. This was nice as the focus was on poetry > that included current politics not current politics with line breaks. > > It was a packed house in Rust Belt books (and if you are not fimiliar with > the store it is Buffalo's best used book shop!) and the event was divided > into two sections, a reading then a discussion. I could only stay for the > reading so I'll talk on that and maybe someone else can fill in on the > discussion. > > Our generation does embrace this idea of political poetry while remaining > true to the ideals of poetry. Jonathan Skinner read a rant against Formal > Poetry. These possibly being his articles of war :-) Irony in the form of > humor was brought up in the form of found texts and cut-ups. People read the > greats like Borgies and Beckett (that was spliced with newspaper quotes). > One poet read a beautiful poem written especially for the event and her use > of language was of the school of buffalo sound but cleverly escaped that > Language : The Next Generation humdrum. Other poets used correspondence and > personal notes to bring a personal intamacy of real people and their > responses. Another reading off, in a machine gun style, a long list of book > titles that start with 'War'. One poet blithely used biblical blather to > demonize the US as the whore of Babylon. > > All in all it was a great night of poetry and cold weather. > > Best, Geppetto Gatza > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeffrey Jullich" > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 12:59 AM > Subject: Re: anti-war poetry reading ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 06:01:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Kuszai" Subject: Re: Massoud the Afghan In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" the fact that dan davidson had a project at all is something i was hoping we could talk about. personally, i have only limited access to what that project was. that it ended in suicide is tragic and i suppose that should keep us from talking about it, in order that we learn the lesson correctly. it may be said that suicide was in some sense where that project got him, but i think that's unfair, certainly to dan and certainly to those wish to understand what that project was. and i was just hoping to start with him, because he had a project. perhaps having a project is over-rated. it also seems unfair to cast a cloud over the project when some people already feel the work is "hermetic" -- and i'm thinking only somewhat of the work itself, or rather, would like to expand the concept of what his work was. for example, the iraqi pins, which seem of limited value in the end, are a place to start that conversation. obviously there are other places to start. i got the spd catalog and saw that blurb before giving the catalog to a hungry undergrad who knows nothing of this material at all. anyhow, fine, if you want to talk about someone else, great. i'm sorry if i offended. no wonder so few people post. i have a horrible feeling in my stomach--would rather have these conversations in person, alas. and i'm happy to be an advocate for "poems" or "poetry" (whatever), but it's hard to be an advocate for this space. i'm reachable backchannel but will return to digest/no mail mode. have fun! -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:46:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Troupe resigns teaching post over resume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Actually, I looked up the English Dept. faculty on the web but didn't know anyone. But I expect that some people on this list have links with Grambling. Degrees are the currency colleges and universities traffic in. To me, awarding an honorary degree appropriately skirts the moral issues which people have been discussing here; it doesn't actually change anything or even mean anything. But it is a donorship of something which for many can only be bought in sweat or, as in the University of Arizona College of Nursing murders, blood. Mairead >>> damon001@UMN.EDU 12/06/02 00:17 AM >>> hey, cd we start a petition to them? At 7:07 PM -0500 12/5/02, Mairead Byrne wrote: >I hope at this very moment faculty at Grambling State University are >voting to award Quincy Troupe an honorary B.A. >Mairead > > >>>> Gallaher@MAIL.UCA.EDU 12/05/02 14:47 PM >>> >RS writes: > >African-American laureates to go after? So we had a discussion about >why Daniel Hoffman, Pennsylvania's laureate, has never offended >anyone.> > >I Reply: > >Should he have? > > _JG > >-------------------- > > >"Always in a foreign country, >the poet uses poetry as interpreter." > --Edmond Jabes -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 09:20:02 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Troupe Petition... Personally I think they should give Troupe his job back...he's prob. a good & charismatic teacher & involved in the S.D. community..and the problem of credentialing poets is just damn silly..Msr. Villon now where did you say vous avez l'ecole ....the person they hire also is just goin' to be a troupe-a-like..and they might as well have the real thing...moi i have a doctorate so i figure that makes me employable at K-mart... But where dear PETITIONERS were you..when two football coaches recently were dismissed POSTHASTE...when it was found their credentials weren't in order..block and tackle..X&O's...sweep left...now that's what a lib ed. is for...harry.. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 09:44:51 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: a Troupe Story... c Many many years ago..i had an African-A Po friend, let's call him TED... He was by time of the time i knew him no longer a young man..and had led for some 30 years on 3 continents a hand-to-mouth existence...borrowing from A to pay B...living on grant and credit...taking greyhound buses across country with his ever present peanut butter sandwiches... At a temp gig at UCberkely...he was offered a full time job..his then girl-friend...the least pretty and most even tempered of his many companions...& my favorite....begged him to take it...she wanted as i remember a fridge...he turned it down...an act of courage i couldn't imagine..she left and went home way back down under...he continued to ride all nite long across america dream... We all make choices..his companion is very pretty and some 40 years younger..we all make choices and whatever they are...we regret them... & rue the day of the plain girl who just wanted a fridge...harry... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:21:31 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Kane Subject: CALL FOR ESSAYS: =?windows-1252?Q?Don=92t_Ever_Get_Famous=3A?= =?windows-1252?Q?_Essays_on_New_York_Writing_Beyond_the_?= =?windows-1252?Q?=91New_York_School=92=2C_edited_by_Stephen_?= =?windows-1252?Q?Cope_and_Daniel_Kane_?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stephen Cope and I are presently considering proposals that address some aspect and/or aspects of New York Poetry in the 1960s and 1970s (i.e., so-called Second Generation New York School, Umbra, Fluxus). For those of you that are interested in submitting a proposal, please take a look at the official call for papers at http://www.uea.ac.uk/eas/People/kane/DON'T_EVER_GET_FAMOUS_CFP.htm. If you wish to correspond with us regarding the project, please make sure to email both of us at the same time. thanks, Daniel Kane > Stephen Cope > -- http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/9278.html "The world is ugly, And the people are sad." --Wallace Stevens ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:51:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: thus spake jimmius Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:18:36 -0500 > From: "J. Kuszai" > Subject: troop, oh but its messy it seems tragic that this list gets used as a forum and that the mania > which pervades doesn't allow for a sustained exploration. why is > that? what would it take to develop something over a period of > months or years? ammiel alcalay and anne waldman plan to have some > kind of meeting. it sounds terrific and perhaps there is some value > to getting together in a small isolated group to discuss something in > a room. what would be discussed? i hope to know more about this and > encourage them to have such a conversation here. I wrote to ammiel and it seems that he and anne have received quite a lot of response to this initiative. Once again those addresses are: a.waldman@mindspring.com > Ammiel Alcalay Nick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:09:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Broder Subject: Ear Inn Readings--December 2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Ear Inn Readings Saturdays at 3:00 326 Spring Street (west of Greenwich Street) New York City FREE Subway--N,R/Prince; C,E/Spring; 1,9/Canal December 2002 December 7, 2002 Robert Roth, Pramila Venkateswaran, Carletta Joy Walker December 14, 2002 Bill Fuchs, David Masello, Amy Prince December 21, 2002 Chris Clark, Jill DiDonato, Felicia Sullivan December 28, 2002 Christmas-New Year's Weekend--No Reading For more info, contact Michael Broder at earinnpoetry@nyc.rr.com or visit our Web site: http://home.nyc.rr.com/earinnreadings ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:50:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Let's talk Comments: cc: jsk66@cornell.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >the fact that dan davidson had a project at all is something i was >hoping we could talk about. We can; I never meant to shut that off. My turn to aplogize if I've offended. I just thought it was interesting that the two posts about him were polarized, each at one end of a spectrum. I just think the reality was more complicated than that. >personally, i have only limited access to what that project was. Three of _culture_'s seven books are on Krupskaya's website, at www.krupskayabooks.com along with an afterword I wrote that maybe contextualizes the work a little--there's some, not a lot, but some discussion of his various procedures for poems, for instance. Plus some other anecdotal stuff about him. There are also a number of essays, poems, and letters having to do with Dan in the first issue of Readme, at http://home.jps.net/~nada . You do have access to a great portion of his project! Free access! Anyway, definitely check it out. >that it ended in suicide is tragic and i suppose that should keep us >from talking about it, in order that we learn the lesson correctly. That's not what I was saying, that we shouldn't talk about it. I was saying we should look at it, think about it, and then talk about it. I don't think it's wrong to suggest someone read something before talking about it. >it may be said that suicide was in some sense where that project got >him, but i think that's unfair, certainly to dan and certainly to those >wish to understand what that project was. I don't think it's unfair. Reading his work (which is what you should do if you want to understand it), you'll see that while I don't think suicide is mentioned outright, it runs through the project, that "point of view," let's say. It can't, I was trying to say, be separated from the work, that act. Granted, I was very close to him, so "that act" had for me very palpable resonance. But it is in the work, I'd known that before he committed suicide. Actually, my very first correspondence with him, in the early eighties, was a letter I got from him in response to one I'd sent him, which began: "I was just about to kill myself, when your letter arrived." It was a joke, in the context of the letter. But it was not a joke in the context of his life. He'd been planning it, or at least considering it, for a very long time. That may or may not be self-evident in the work; I'd love to talk about how others feel when they read it. For me, it is self-evident. But others' experiences might suggest otherwise. >and i was just hoping to start with him, because he had a project. >perhaps having a project is over-rated. it also seems unfair to cast a >cloud over the project when some people already feel the work is >"hermetic" I think if Dan had just one day up and decided to kill himself, it might be unfair to "cast a cloud over his project." But, again--and I don't mean to be mean or anything, you should really read the work. You'll see, no one needs to cast a cloud over the project. The cloud is already there. He used to call himself "Mr. Doom and Gloom." He *liked* there being clouds overhimself, his work, he cultivated it. He wore nothing but black nearly every day of his life, and not necessarily because it was trendy. I don't think it nullifies his work, though, and I'm saddened that that's all you got from what I said. I apologise for that. >anyhow, fine, if you want to talk about someone else, great. i'm sorry if i >offended. no wonder so few people post. i have a >horrible feeling in my stomach--would rather have these conversations >in person, alas. and i'm happy to be an advocate for "poems" or >"poetry" (whatever), but it's hard to be an advocate for this space. >i'm reachable backchannel but will return to digest/no mail mode. have fun! Again, I wasn't trying to shut off discussion of his work, but to complicate the discussion. And nudge people to read some of it so they could talk about it having done that, with that perspective. Anyway, I'm sending this to you backchannel as well as front, hoping you won't just disappear. I know it's difficult to talk here. But it can be done. Surely you believe that, having edited a book of dialog from this space. Or, maybe you don't. But, maybe, try? Anyway. Let us know what you think of the work on Krupskaya's site, and how people have talked/written about him in Readme. Sorry for hurting your tummy. That really wasn't intended. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:59:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: anti-war poetry reading In-Reply-To: <003501c29d06$c528df70$605e3318@LINKAGE> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT on 12/6/02 1:06 AM, Geoffrey Gatza at ggatza@DAEMEN.EDU wrote: > It was not the > soap box stomping I feared it might turn into. There was a strong possiblity > of a 60's activist reading of bongo beating and flag burning singing > alternating rounds of give peace a chance. Geoffrey, where did you find this description?!! I was 'there' at many anti-war readings, marches, events and your collage sounds more inventive than true. But maybe there was such an event. Otherwise I don't know what your dismissive description serves or fears. (??) It sounds like the reading last night was a good and gratifying one. However, I don't understand the under or overtone of your post that seems to be put out a requirement that an anti-war poetry reading be tied to some strict bounds of sophistication and decorum, including its audience, contributors and context. Certain kinds of language are OK and certain things are not. (Alright, I don't like to sit through somebody who is all heart or all attitude and no skill) But isn't there an assumption here that one kind of output is more effective, more accurately anti-war than another? Perhaps. But it makes me uncomfortable. My sense is that upcoming works and events against the war will be composed of a variety of gestures (visual, musical, linguistic), high and 'low' culture, each one speaking from different cultural, class, and ethnic perspectives. I suspect (ideally) the aggregate of a portion of all these contributions will begin to construct an effective anti-war, anti-Bush, etc. culture. Whether historians, literary and otherwise - thirty years from now - look back and say "what great art" (as say one does at the anti-war poems of WWI English poets), or amalgamates and dismisses these gestures (as in your quote) remains to be seen. It could be all effective and aesthetically not interesting - as much Anti-Vietnam War poetry often seemed to me at the time or, at least, sincerity non-withstanding, very hard to write. In fact the writing about that War after the fact by both Vietnamese and Americans who were actually in the war is much more vital and lasting. Collectively speaking for this country, the Mia Lin's (Sp) Washington Memorial is probably the greatest anti-war poem (quo sculpture) that we have of any war - but again that - even tho strongly opposed by Reagan and the Right - was after the fact. But I remain uncomfortable by what seems your sense of aesthetic stricture and what that may be about. Stephen V ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 13:10:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: Fwd: Introducing "The Poker" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I'm pleased to announce the premeir issue of "The Poker," with poetry by Alice Notley Chris Stroffolino D. A. Powell Daniel Bouchard George Stanley Jennifer Moxley Juliana Spahr Kevin Killian Kimberly Lyons Laura Elrick Philip Jenks Robert Mueller Shin Yu Pai and an interview with Kimberly Lyons by Marcella Durand and book reviews: Chris McCreary reviews Rachel Blau DuPlessis Greg Fuchs reviews Joseph Torra Tom Devaney reviews Brenda Bordofsky, MacGregor Card, and Karen Weiser Tom Orange reviews The World in Time and Space The Poker is edited by Daniel Bouchard and contributing editors: Beth Anderson, Kevin Davies, Marcella Durand, Steve Evans, Cris Mattison, Jennifer Moxley, and Douglas Rothschild. The cost of each Poker is $10.00. Subscriptions: 2 issues for $16.00, 3 for $22.00. All orders post paid. Make checks payable to Daniel Bouchard, and mail to P.O. Box 390408, Cambridge, MA 02139. ><>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Bouchard Senior Production Coordinator The MIT Press Journals Five Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 bouchard@mit.edu phone: 617.258.0588 fax: 617.258.5028 <>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><>> _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 13:28:26 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: anti-war poetry reading In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" great post, stephen v. i'm finding several instances of what i would term mischaracterizations of past critical approaches in order to repudiate them in the name of some kind of linear "progress" --it tends to end up reifying some overly simplistic notion of how things were done in the past (crudely, unsophisticatedly) in order to valorize some present development as better informed, more nuanced, etc. this was true for example of henry louis gates's jr's early work on Black Arts era African American literary criticism,which he portrayed as crude and essentialistic, a misreading in my book, in order to launch his own agenda. he stopped doing that and became more conciliatory after he had become well established. i see the same thing in feminist lit crit, and here it is again in antiwar lit crit, or reviews of antiwar literary events. geoffrey, i love you dahhling, but sv has a point. At 8:59 AM -0800 12/6/02, Stephen Vincent wrote: >on 12/6/02 1:06 AM, Geoffrey Gatza at ggatza@DAEMEN.EDU wrote: > >> It was not the >> soap box stomping I feared it might turn into. There was a strong possiblity >> of a 60's activist reading of bongo beating and flag burning singing >> alternating rounds of give peace a chance. > >Geoffrey, where did you find this description?!! I was 'there' at many >anti-war readings, marches, events and your collage sounds more inventive >than true. But maybe there was such an event. Otherwise I don't know what >your dismissive description serves or fears. (??) > >It sounds like the reading last night was a good and gratifying one. >However, I don't understand the under or overtone of your post that seems >to be put out a requirement that an anti-war poetry reading be tied to some >strict bounds of sophistication and decorum, including its audience, >contributors and context. Certain kinds of language are OK and certain >things are not. (Alright, I don't like to sit through somebody who is all >heart or all attitude and no skill) But isn't there an assumption here that >one kind of output is more effective, more accurately anti-war than another? >Perhaps. But it makes me uncomfortable. My sense is that upcoming works and >events against the war will be composed of a variety of gestures (visual, >musical, linguistic), high and 'low' culture, each one speaking from >different cultural, class, and ethnic perspectives. I suspect (ideally) the >aggregate of a portion of all these contributions will begin to construct an >effective anti-war, anti-Bush, etc. culture. Whether historians, literary >and otherwise - thirty years from now - look back and say "what great art" >(as say one does at the anti-war poems of WWI English poets), or amalgamates >and dismisses these gestures (as in your quote) remains to be seen. It could >be all effective and aesthetically not interesting - as much Anti-Vietnam >War poetry often seemed to me at the time or, at least, sincerity >non-withstanding, very hard to write. In fact the writing about that War >after the fact by both Vietnamese and Americans who were actually in the war >is much more vital and lasting. Collectively speaking for this country, the >Mia Lin's (Sp) Washington Memorial is probably the greatest anti-war poem >(quo sculpture) that we have of any war - but again that - even tho strongly >opposed by Reagan and the Right - was after the fact. >But I remain uncomfortable by what seems your sense of aesthetic stricture >and what that may be about. > >Stephen V -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:38:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: anti-war poetry In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I remember reading Laura Moriarty's book "Symmetry" and thinking it a strongly anti-war book (came out after the Gulf War 1991) in fabulous and interesting ways. Has anyone read that book?--I haven't in about two years, but perhaps will go back to it now Also pieces in "Poasis," "Europe of Trusts," and of course the best war/anti-war book I ever read "Memory for Forgetfulness: August, Beirut, 1982" by Mahmoud Darwish--what a freaking book! K ===== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) --John Lennon and Yoko Ono __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:10:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: URGENT TELEGRAM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII URGENT TELEGRAM through gates the of passenger the gates airport, of cloaca airport, expulsion, cloaca the or through expulsion, the monitors, men, x-rays, women, naked and men, children, women, heading and towards children, a heading new towards monitors, a x-rays, new naked systematic diaspora, camp beneath inversion, the diaspora, sign beneath of sign we terror, systematic we camp are inversion, all who jews, is cannot who differentiate, is who friend, is the enemy, rays friend, we rays differentiate, penetrate, the swallow body us; politic, body is politic, visible everything in visible penetrate, in swallow this us; continual seepage seepage or erosion of liberties; protected protected against against ourselves; ourselves; continual versions of writing; and enumeration goods persons the goods the for versions benefit writing; community; officer; kindly protect officer; one to against protect himself, one that himself, community; that the virus self-discredit; serves has self-discredit; in what your has past been "for your that past serves "for to myself i myself have i regret"; to crimes; regret"; STOP through the passenger gates of the airport, cloaca or expulsion, the monitors, x-rays, naked men, women, and children, heading towards a new systematic camp inversion, diaspora, beneath the sign of terror, we are all jews, we cannot differentiate, who is enemy, who is friend, the rays penetrate, swallow us; the body politic, everything is visible in this continual seepage or erosion of liberties; protected against ourselves; the versions of writing; enumeration of persons and goods for the benefit of community; the kindly officer; to protect one against himself, that virus that serves to self-discredit; what has been in your past "for myself i have everything to regret"; crimes; STOP through gates the of passenger airport, cloaca expulsion, or monitors, men, x-rays, women, naked and children, heading towards a new systematic diaspora, camp beneath inversion, sign we terror, are all who jews, is cannot differentiate, friend, enemy, rays penetrate, swallow body us; politic, visible everything in this continual seepage erosion liberties; protected against ourselves; versions writing; enumeration goods persons for benefit community; officer; kindly protect one to himself, that virus self-discredit; serves has what your past been "for myself i have regret"; crimes; STOP === ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:22:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: anti-war poetry reading Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Stephen and all, You may be interested in what Maya Lin wrote about the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Boundaries, a book which emphasizes the creative role of writing in her work, and which also is a celebration of hybridity (in her case, art and architecture): "The memorial is analogous to a book in many ways. Note that on the right-hand panels the pages are set ragged right and on the left they are set ragged left, creating a spine at the apex as in a book. Another issue was scale; the text type is the smallest that we had come across, less than half an inch, which is unheard of in monument type sizing. What it does is create a very intimate reading in a very public space, the difference in intimacy between reading a billboard and reading a book. The only other issue was the polished black granite and how it should be detailed, over which I remember having a few arguments with the architects of record. The architects could not understand my choice of a reflective, highly polished black granite. One of them felt I was making a mistake and the polished surface would be "too *feminine*" Also puzzling to them was my choice of detailing the monument as a thin veneer with barely any thickness at its top edge. They wanted to make the monument's walls read as a massive, thick stone wall, which was not my intention at all. I always saw the wall as pure surface, an interface bewteen light and dark, where I cut the earth and polished its open edge. The wall dematerializes as a form and allows the names to become the object, a pure and reflective surface that would allow visitors the chance to see themselves with the names. I do not think I thought of the color black as a color, more as the idea of a dark mirror into a shadowed mirrored image of the space, a space we cannot enter and from which the names separate us, an interface between the world of the living and the world of the dead. One aspect that made the project unusual was its politicized building process. For instance, the granite could not come from Canada or Sweden. Though those countries had beautiful black granites, draft evaders went to both countries, so the veterans felt that we could not consider their granites as options. (The stone finally selected came from India). The actual building process went smoothly for the most part, and the memorial was built very close to my original intentions. As far as all of the controversy, I really never wanted to go into it too much. The memorial's starkness, it's being below grade, being black, and how much my age, gender, and race played a part in the controversy, we'll never quite know. I think it is actually a miracle that the piece ever got built. From the beginning I often wondered, if it had not been an anonymous entry 1026 but rather an entry by Maya Lin, would I have been selected? from Boundaries (Simon & Schuster 2000), 4:15-16. >>> steph484@PACBELL.NET 12/06/02 12:03 PM >>> Collectively speaking for this country, the Mia Lin's (Sp) Washington Memorial is probably the greatest anti-war poem (quo sculpture) that we have of any war - but again that - even tho strongly opposed by Reagan and the Right - was after the fact. But I remain uncomfortable by what seems your sense of aesthetic stricture and what that may be about. Stephen V ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:31:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: thus spake jimmius In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:18:36 -0500 >> From: "J. Kuszai" >> Subject: troop, oh but its messy > >it seems tragic that this list gets used as a forum and that the mania > > which pervades doesn't allow for a sustained exploration. Whew! The definition of tragedy has changed since I studied Euripides and Shakespeare! -- George Bowering Ga ga about Veronica Lake Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:30:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: typeloop #0001 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE PAUL WHITNEY COLLECTION typeloop #0001..................excerpt www.the-hyper-age.com wound Hearts said why hang Alexander grow enamored milkmaid surly faithful exquisitely mild Well well all methods Intelligence wealth found roaring lions excited queue streets occasion two old totally ladies taken made describe all added signature humbugging chivalry proceeding aloud ye maunna speak wound Hearts wound Hearts employment every said why hang Alexander grow said why hang Alexander grow extravagance such cause ten-pound ladies taken enamored milkmaid enamored milkmaid note always came sect Zwingli Einsiedeln surly faithful surly faithful all duties very smallest intellect exquisitely mild Well well all exquisitely mild Well well all belonged time will taken degree guardian roaring lions gate roaring lions axe rusting Ah dear axe sighed thus queue streets occasion two old records succeeding rebuke Get thee queue streets occasion two old drinking former honori contrarius ladies taken tenants bosom all ladies taken hold first rank first prizes suspicion humbugging chivalry woman loves know must taken washing pot walloping humbugging chivalry chances all descend heated place towards dawn end fortnight much sooner expected chances all dissuade extravagance such cause ten-pound same impetuous warmhearted extravagance such cause ten-pound visit recesses bank parlour Lombard Peter note always came town rights all note always came Street sublime devotion sighed all duties very smallest intellect unicycle all duties very smallest intellect epochial discoveries belonged Thirdly few houses built mostly belonged hastened stated disturbed watching Faith earthly goodness axe rusting Ah dear axe sighed useful errands offices finer young axe rusting Ah dear axe sighed districts takes whether drinking night men complexion greyish drinking country hoisted colours republic hold first rank first prizes TABLET TWELFTH hold first rank first prizes again while Micawber case still perhaps chances all such frame thereby marred contain chances all fact science merely corroborates eyes cast chances all came rattling up road box servant chances all Hermetic Teachings latter African beasts visit recesses bank parlour Lombard practice visit recesses bank parlour Lombard regard interest each Tyrrel compliments receive Street Street opportunity common men means diminished nearer scrutiny bearing mind will escape continual London having rescued myself eight hastened stated disturbed endeavour conceal believe great hastened stated disturbed correction districts takes exemplifications districts takes taken cold weary indifferent life exactors hope testimony need noble hardly restrain glad subside citizens intervene again while Micawber can place beyond reach pass beg again while Micawber give up favorite pudding now cold fact science merely corroborates occasioned fact science merely corroborates easiness temper far being entitled prime whether hulking guardsman Hermetic Teachings latter insisting acceptance Gallican Hermetic Teachings latter Well sir all must own some acquainted attained attempted regard interest each Tyrrel contrast regard interest each Tyrrel frankness Now will fell asleep recalled passionate opportunity Faith right Blessington governor opportunity frankness Now will bearing mind will escape continual bearing mind will escape continual returns earth cap end free Something gleamed correction Arab heard groaned one groan correction peculiarly exercised domestics geneva taken cold weary indifferent life sniffing idle curiosity blossoms taken cold weary indifferent life dependents utter another whims came head glad subside one hand all malice other glad subside special man unless case distinctly carefully conceal truth some corner several other groups more distant like large red splotch easiness temper far being entitled justice law prerogative king easiness temper far being entitled part saloon prospect advantage Well sir all must own some right stretch prerogative limits Well sir all must own some admission light elsewhere common frankness Now will most worthy reign frankness Now will hear wonderful celestial sound may wife always great stock can wish frankness Now will very rapid frankness Now will work said Try fellow Little Sister see returns earth themselves returns earth heat ardor Wyant left lovers cooled come peculiarly exercised domestics most probably peculiarly exercised domestics America real purpose recognize stature dependents tablet honour dependents Brethren Ere manhood distance open avenue led America labouring poor greater command several other groups more distant period several other groups more distant light day only stars shining God great imperishable lustre part saloon aix-la-chapelle part saloon society Aldersgate Street more ally resolved fingers connection hear wonderful celestial sound may part acted light injuring hear wonderful celestial sound may Elders Conference consisted proprieties little work understands forbids work Brethren elected Church oath during heat ardor Wyant left lovers cooled lacking heat ardor Wyant left lovers cooled welcomed like pulse fresh air first solemnly smoking America real purpose recognize Patate al Pomidoro Potatoes Tomato America real purpose recognize Sunday people See Edinburgh Quarterly Review Brethren fire gathering Brethren Brethren broad evangel needed venture America muscas eagle does take note flies America most midst coming days light day only stars shining God feel run taken evening closed light day only stars shining God shook head too old go rampagin new now Cato rascal society Aldersgate Street more sought marriage lavished much society Aldersgate Street more gods causes bowels move connection delight Celina particular Celina connection Economy preferred trade own Ormond Elders Conference consisted started young practically skipped Elders Conference consisted account free Brethren elected Church particular alcove very flimsy drape Brethren elected Church Act recognize Brethren sober president returned London threw welcomed like pulse fresh air first tree hundred yards north buildings welcomed like pulse fresh air first industrious entertaining sights Road witness Sunday people hold within rights asserted Sunday people supplemented Brethren broad evangel needed cried Count must Brethren broad evangel needed minded Goodbye said last coming taken departure all see boat most midst most midst pay drew bills tradesmen consent saw most brilliant rainbow imagined shook head too old go rampagin new admirable slice cold beef taken shook head too old go rampagin new can gods gods shore lined thousands eager better get traps together will go Economy preferred trade own snares traps Economy preferred trade own spectators two boats complete ignorance account free one step account free Princeton graduate General undefended only reason Act recognize Brethren sober wont other cities countries Act recognize Brethren sober improvement American university one step industrious sickness Simeona industrious Moura pacing up down corridor door ages prevailed- three distinct recovery place perhaps father brave Philip enforce salutary doctrine system minded says come minded mouth shut now maybe shut sheriff thanks pay drew bills tradesmen consent representations course pay drew bills tradesmen consent got equal pains realize imagination details Ponteac plan capture two real trouble wainscot shore lined thousands eager brow rocky promontory dark pine shore lined thousands eager ancient prosperity ancient modern Up high northern sincerity low spectators two boats down fell spectators two boats history alike made nature mean selfish can doubt Princeton graduate General all vaunted strength weakness folly Princeton graduate General pointed memorial necessarily left human actors stage improvement American university improvement American university abstain child Moura pacing up down corridor door wondered secretly love Duke Moura pacing up down corridor door endearing qualities prized too Philip sigh grunt Philip Bobby crumpled handkerchief hand asked officer now mouth shut now maybe shut sheriff nor one come mouth shut now maybe shut sheriff preparatory rubbing vibration got unhappy Foker only groaned reply got satisfaction point avoiding real trouble scantiness summer stream hardly real trouble bloodshed ancient prosperity ancient modern father ruined leave Melrose ancient prosperity ancient modern troops Place Maubert left unguarded prudence proceeding Savoy less history alike made history alike made rabble Thornhaugh Street disturbed pointed memorial water --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:32:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: typeloop #0002 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE PAUL WHITNEY COLLECTION typeloop #0002..................excerpt www.the-hyper-age.com generally see sun rise Field Marshal flattered interest young Baroness eagerness weep suffer wear piteous mourning mystery features become coarser-dissipation cloud spray excited gave birth totally small enough women nothing spite Vivian choose presume late growing bed generally see sun rise generally see sun rise acquaintance chief attraction Field Marshal flattered interest Field Marshal flattered interest acknowledge authority course small young Baroness young Baroness redeem pledge little will still better eagerness eagerness Reisenberg Papa extending hand Madame Carolina evidently took official representative using mystery will mystery convalescene means thus cloud spray excited gave birth satisfied cloud spray excited gave birth usual even best circles Flatheads small habitual object small now illustrious brothers down much Vivian choose presume late bottles scents essences seized also pervaded Vivian choose presume late continued Grand Duke let opinion leave imagine thinks acquaintance assiduous care bathed throbbing acquaintance continued Grand Duke let dissuade acknowledge authority course being shut up understanding acknowledge authority course hours good reality Chinese patriotism given redeem pledge town things one time leaving another redeem pledge singularly hot autumn very light Mongolia also staff Reisenberg Papa unicycle Reisenberg Papa heaven hateful life remain outstanding Madame Carolina evidently took inclined dub himself warrior Madame Carolina evidently took convalescene means feelings those convalescene means some worried equestrian suddenly whether functions form slink away annoying yell imagine such now illustrious brothers discover hidden meaning now illustrious brothers immediately Baroness surrounded all favorite Sixtus Jerome Riario continued Grand Duke let CLASH continued Grand Duke let dandies remarking continued Grand Duke let will tend continued Grand Duke let really Beckendorff whom heard society right reason hours good west coast hours good much within toils old Cunningham singularly hot autumn very light ensues gateway singularly hot autumn very light demanding games chance prohibited heaven hateful transfixed heaven hateful kicking up awful row hotel-yard cautiously know all exclaimed Baron voluntary Others some worried equestrian suddenly dear apparently some worried equestrian suddenly quickly looking up strange thoughts slink away annoying yell mount horse return immediately slink away annoying yell philosophers swept royal presence like other immediately Baroness surrounded all Heiligenstern one Papal immediately Baroness surrounded all censorship life come early dandies dandies really Beckendorff whom heard Geoffrain sujetion one will cost really Beckendorff whom heard still more brilliant impulses soon much wasting much league assured Lady Ogreham those reads those world day whole creation know all exclaimed Baron critical study Old Testament know all exclaimed Baron great door Thither also Vivian correspondence quickly looking up perceiv'd now amongst themselves quickly looking up looked wonderstruck beheld philosophers swept royal presence construction philosophers swept royal presence Splendid preparations made chief effect censorship seated censorship reception inheritor worshipping own imaginary night people humour return once entered know sir said last still more brilliant useful glorious still more brilliant deaf Go bring list directly modification told Prime Minister interposed longer control Beckendorff those Temper People cannot resolve rather prototypes ideas God such thing minor points expressed himself friends carried books sound even sigh Oh given shriek great door Thither also Vivian meanwhile great door Thither also Vivian evince surprise take measure disappointed seeing natives Lake looked wonderstruck beheld wasnae easy fleyed gaed straucht looked wonderstruck beheld curiosity Major Potter exclaimed stranger Splendid preparations made family Splendid preparations made such age turbaned Moor treated railroads coming reception inheritor singulis utriusque sex ucirc reception inheritor frantic quickness motion strikingly purification morals Italy nor people humour return once entered aix-la-chapelle people humour return once entered contrasts John returned home father filled deaf Go bring list directly summer fear away made safe hawk owl deaf Go bring list directly also pointed annual rings mark age majority longer control Beckendorff those went longer control Beckendorff those tree mother sister minor points Beyrout none minor points chesnut tree moment advanced stilts gone connecting two scenes painter sound even sigh Oh given shriek sound even sigh Oh given shriek towards atonement true all events taken evince surprise take measure great gift God evident sign evince surprise take measure similar Continental liberal indeed began walk up curiosity cast-down meditative eyes seen curiosity even Toryism venture such age turbaned Moor treated bauble must add value manner such age turbaned Moor treated hope Clara given wine like mistress house similar errand take frantic quickness motion strikingly through chief told Rusizi joined frantic quickness motion strikingly Philipson herself grief nor forget moment contrasts starting-point history ancient contrasts Vivian submitted introductory think also pointed annual rings mark age General Vulcan-why never also pointed annual rings mark age ceremonies good up attempt penetrate Central tree returned home rank major enjoy tree nearly environed mountains covered leafless grove now chesnut tree moment advanced stilts shoulder chesnut tree moment advanced stilts hanging woods father knowledge consent towards characterised manners towards during late war arch commenced impossibilities believes nothing similar Continental liberal indeed hear defended similar Continental liberal indeed Napoleon restraints reason virtue even Toryism sequestered spot evening assured even Toryism Napoleon minded lake swamp meanders numerous bays fatal infernal hope Clara given wine like Lord said call being Zarah hope Clara given wine like steed associates line Philipson sweetness efficacy holy Philipson still lingered forest river Vivian submitted introductory drowsiness gone Vivian submitted introductory receive Napoleon Emperor purifying wind through atmosphere ceremonies good pass two hours ceremonies good outstretched arms certitude nearly environed mountains covered come masked nearly environed mountains covered Bible many other States besides hanging woods cases servants got ready each hanging woods Greece Rome Carthage come masked during late war arch commenced most brutal men increase affliction during late war arch commenced repetition absurdity only wearisome discharge made great body pause Napoleon desire languish Napoleon Pray assist getting follow Napoleon minded together Few Napoleon minded Austria Crown Prince Reisenburg thanks steed ruin himself steed generally believed universal creation suppose these thought Saturday said harder still heart recoil bear wainscot receive Napoleon Emperor commons think time used send receive Napoleon Emperor being sensible responsibility next shower outstretched arms outstretched arms finally Bible many other States besides suffering adventure collected Bible many other States besides Now heavens more insolent playing animal animal Greece Rome Carthage eight hundred years uninterrupted Greece Rome Carthage abstain stretching carpet repetition absurdity only wearisome mind affected feelings began repetition absurdity only wearisome altogether say Lintz bring half-killed fainting top Pray assist getting Pray assist getting things now very likely will very Austria Crown Prince Reisenburg horse others party lined Shefford Austria Crown Prince Reisenburg well vibration generally believed brain woman generally believed person answers Always thinking dangerous experiment mind may harder still heart recoil bear years wit learning answer interest harder still heart recoil bear herself only asked questions being sensible responsibility envy being sensible responsibility astonished dear Sister making finally mist tawny gold finally extricating master fatal grasp Action Now heavens more insolent Now heavens more insolent Galen fetlocks smell recollections half abstain Professor Huxley asked abstain condescends transactions detail altogether say Lintz domestic life altogether say Lintz stout lances erected like young things now very likely will very decided things now --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:24:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: anti-war poetry reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stephen, It sounds like a hippy needs a nap. Best, Geoffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Vincent" To: Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 11:59 AM Subject: Re: anti-war poetry reading > on 12/6/02 1:06 AM, Geoffrey Gatza at ggatza@DAEMEN.EDU wrote: > > > It was not the > > soap box stomping I feared it might turn into. There was a strong possiblity > > of a 60's activist reading of bongo beating and flag burning singing > > alternating rounds of give peace a chance. > > Geoffrey, where did you find this description?!! I was 'there' at many > anti-war readings, marches, events and your collage sounds more inventive > than true. But maybe there was such an event. Otherwise I don't know what > your dismissive description serves or fears. (??) > > It sounds like the reading last night was a good and gratifying one. > However, I don't understand the under or overtone of your post that seems > to be put out a requirement that an anti-war poetry reading be tied to some > strict bounds of sophistication and decorum, including its audience, > contributors and context. Certain kinds of language are OK and certain > things are not. (Alright, I don't like to sit through somebody who is all > heart or all attitude and no skill) But isn't there an assumption here that > one kind of output is more effective, more accurately anti-war than another? > Perhaps. But it makes me uncomfortable. My sense is that upcoming works and > events against the war will be composed of a variety of gestures (visual, > musical, linguistic), high and 'low' culture, each one speaking from > different cultural, class, and ethnic perspectives. I suspect (ideally) the > aggregate of a portion of all these contributions will begin to construct an > effective anti-war, anti-Bush, etc. culture. Whether historians, literary > and otherwise - thirty years from now - look back and say "what great art" > (as say one does at the anti-war poems of WWI English poets), or amalgamates > and dismisses these gestures (as in your quote) remains to be seen. It could > be all effective and aesthetically not interesting - as much Anti-Vietnam > War poetry often seemed to me at the time or, at least, sincerity > non-withstanding, very hard to write. In fact the writing about that War > after the fact by both Vietnamese and Americans who were actually in the war > is much more vital and lasting. Collectively speaking for this country, the > Mia Lin's (Sp) Washington Memorial is probably the greatest anti-war poem > (quo sculpture) that we have of any war - but again that - even tho strongly > opposed by Reagan and the Right - was after the fact. > But I remain uncomfortable by what seems your sense of aesthetic stricture > and what that may be about. > > Stephen V > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:14:58 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hlazer Subject: Architectural Body - Discount Offer - with minor revisions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Same discount as a week ago; some revised early praise... Dear Poetics List-ers: A remarkable, provocative new book -- Arakawa and Madeline Gins' Architectural Body. EARLY PRAISE FOR Architectural Body "I have nothing to lose by going along with you. Should you turn out to be right about reversible destiny, that will be great for me, and if you are not, then I will suffer no worse a fate than would have befallen me otherwise." -Arthur Danto, philosopher and author of The Madonna of the Future: Essays in a Pluralistic Art World, Columbia University. "Gins and Arakawa know that organism and environment are not two but one single interaction process open to unfathomed possibilities of novelty on both sides."--Eugene Gendlin, philosopher and psychotherapist, founder of The Focusing Institute "This book--I am completely knocked out by it."-Aaron Kunin, poet and novelist, Johns Hopkins University. "Together with Norberg-Schulz's Intentions in Architecture and Venturi's Complexity and Contradiction in Architecture, this work should be counted among the handful of seminal and iconoclastic contemporary studies that open up and redefine the field of architecture."-Andrew MacNair, architect, Columbia University. "A poetic-philosophical masterpiece. A moral, anti-metaphysical illumination. Gins and Arakawa have extended Spinoza's insight that the body has no limits to emerge with a maximal architecture, an architecture in the visionary mode of Hejduk, Taut, and Schwitters. Their radical housing project is a severe polemic against the elegiac Western tradition and its memorials. In an anti-Virgilian mode in which everything immortal touches the mind, they propose exigent structures against death."-David Shapiro, art historian, poet, and author of Lateness, Cooper Union. "From Plato to Heidegger, from an architectonics of the cosmic demiurge to a post-metaphysical analysis of building, dwelling, and thinking, architecture has been conceived as housing for those who die. Arakawa and Gins ask the question, why not construct for those who will continue to live? This is the manifesto of a transhuman architecture, a call for a daring, practical, fully embodied art of living."-Gary Shapiro, philosopher and author of Archaeologies of Vision: Foucault and Nietzsche on Seeing and Saying, University of Richmond. "The first 21st century reconception of human life . . . [and] a program of expanding human potential on a scale not seen since the Enlightenment."-Stanley Shostak, biologist and author of Becoming Immortal, University of Pittsburgh. "The world may not be precisely ready for this, but these propitious blueprints are absolutely necessary."-Lissa Wolsak, poet, metal smith, and author of Pen Chants. Announcing the latest volume in the series Modern and Contemporary Poetics, edited by Charles Bernstein and Hank Lazer Architectural Body Madeline Gins and Arakawa The authors urge critical theorists of all stripes to consider taking nothing less than the architectural body (body-proper plus architectural surround) as the basic unit for study. This revolutionary work by artist-architects Arakawa and Madeline Gins demonstrates the inter-connectedness of innovative architectural design, the poetic process, and philosophical inquiry. Together, they have created an experimental and widely admired body of work--museum installations, landscape and park commissions, home and office designs, avant-garde films, poetry collections--that challenges traditional notions about the built environment. In 1997 the Guggenheim Museum presented an Arakawa/Gins retrospective and published a comprehensive volume of their work titled Reversible Destiny: We Have Decided Not to Die. Architectural Body continues the philosophical definition of that project and demands a fundamental rethinking of the terms "human" and "being." When organisms assume full responsibility for inventing themselves, where they live and how they live will merge. The artists believe that a thorough re-visioning of architecture will redefine life and its limitations and render death passé. The authors explain that "Another way to read reversible destiny . . . is as an open challenge to our species to reinvent itself and to desist from foreclosing on any possibility." "This is a strong and important work, as much for its polemic and contentious claims as for its utopian inflections." --Steve McCaffery, poet and Director of the North American Centre for Interdisciplinary Poetics Arakawa is an architect and artist, and Madeline Gins is an architect, poet, and novelist. 128 pages, 6 x 9 ISBN: 0-8173-1169-6, $19.95s paper ISBN: 0-8173-1168-8, $45.00s unjacketed cloth SPECIAL OFFER TO POETICS LISTSERV 20% DISCOUNT WHEN YOU MENTION THAT YOU ARE ON THE POETICS LISTSERV OFFER EXPIRES 30 April 2003 To order contact Elizabeth Motherwell E-mail emother@uapress.ua.edu Phone (205) 348-7108 Fax (205) 348-9201 or mail to: The University of Alabama Press Marketing Department Box 870380 Tuscaloosa, AL 35487-0380 Attn: Elizabeth Motherwell www.uapress.ua.edu Gins and Arakawa/Architectural Body paper discounted price $15.96 ISBN 0-8173-1169-6 cloth discounted price $36.00 ISBN 0-8173-1168-8 Subtotal ________________ Illinois residents add 8.75% sales tax ________________ USA orders: add $4.50 postage for the first book and $1.00 for each additional book _________________ Canada residents add 7% sales tax _________________ International orders: add $5.50 postage for the first book and $1.00 for each additional book _________________ Enclosed as payment in full _________________ (Make checks payable to The University of Alabama Press) Bill my: _________Visa _________MasterCard Account number _______________________________ Daytime phone________________________________ Expiration date ________________________________ Full name____________________________________ Signature ____________________________________ Shipping Address______________________________ City _________________________________________ State_______________________ Zip ______________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:32:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Mahmoud Darwish book online for free Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Thanks for the tip on the "Memory for Forgetfulness: August, Beirut, 1982." There's an online version of it: http://ark.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/ft1z09n7g7/ Is this the whole book? A selection? _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:35:03 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?Re:_CALL_FOR_ESSAYS:_Don=92t_Ever_Get_Famous:_E?= =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?ssays_on_New_York_Writing_Beyond_the_=91New_Yor?= =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?k_School=92,_edited_by_Stephen_Cope_and_Daniel_?= =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?Kane_?= In-Reply-To: <3DF0C07B.6030604@panix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit what is umbra? On Friday, December 6, 2002, at 09:21 AM, Daniel Kane wrote: > Stephen Cope and I are presently considering proposals that address > some > aspect and/or aspects of New York Poetry in the 1960s and 1970s (i.e., > so-called Second Generation New York School, Umbra, Fluxus). For those > of you that are interested in submitting a proposal, please take a look > at the official call for papers at > > http://www.uea.ac.uk/eas/People/kane/DON'T_EVER_GET_FAMOUS_CFP.htm. > > If you wish to correspond with us regarding the project, please make > sure to email both of us at the same time. > thanks, > Daniel Kane > > Stephen Cope > > > -- > http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/9278.html > > "The world is ugly, > And the people are sad." > > --Wallace Stevens > > mIEKAL aND memexikon@mwt.net | ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:30:37 -0600 Reply-To: "Patrick F. Durgin" Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: TO OUR NYC FELLOW anti-war poetry TEASERS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A rather exemplary draft of hot air - delectable up here in the north = woods - from Jolly Jull-ick, provocateur and mistaken identitor. Kristen Gallagher and Tim Shaner deserve a lot of credit for organizing = last night's event as an open reading, sans "mic," so as to get some = ideas on the table (presuming the only entry fee is a belief that poetry = produces ideas) toward isolating a / some true question/s that we, in = attendance, feel are important as citizens of this nation. No small = hope but hope nonetheless. However, it hardly seems or seemed an "epic" = endeavor. Last night you had not only those listed in the pre-event = program but those who in no way identify as "poets" - i.e., just folks = eager to read, listen, etc. Buffalo poets, in, around, and outside the = university's "poetics program," are self-conscious enough to realize, = from what I can tell, when they are and are not merely navel-gazing. = So, really, take your absentee ballot and shove it up your copy of The = Cantos. [The preceding rant is payback for a certain public slogging endured by = myself based on a case of mistaken-identity by, if I'm not mistaken, = kid-dynamite JJ. Am I spiteful? Careful what you ask for.] ------------ http://www.buffalo.edu/~pdurgin ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 09:19:59 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: Re: Troupe resigns teaching post over resume In-Reply-To: <3DF0633D.F77FCAF9@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Maria Damon wrote: > >hey, cd we start a petition to them? And Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino responded: Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: anti-war poetry reading In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thank you, Mairead. I have never gotten Maya Lin's book and appreciate the extensive quote. In addition to her whole research into the historic architecture of mausoleums - it is interesting (to me) as she describes it to look at the v-shape of the monument as an open book shape on edge, simultaneously creating the impression of emerging and descending into the earth and compelling the option to read work indeed as a "book of the dead." But its also a sculptural work that emerged in context (tho somewhat later) with the major land art and minimalist driven works of Walter De Maria, Robert Smithson and Heizer - where the focus on the intrinsic material (as different from a rhetorical signature or shape) is key. From the point of view of text - though this may be off the mark - I wonder if Lin was aware of the works of concrete poets, at least the work that focuses on liberating the word by minimizing its syntactical attachments - similar as it is to the singularity of her use of the names that can only be fully brought to life by the eye(s) and historical knowledge(s) of the beholder(s). Does her book say who she was reading? Stephen V on 12/6/02 11:22 AM, Mairead Byrne at mcbyrne@RISD.EDU wrote: > Dear Stephen and all, > > You may be interested in what Maya Lin wrote about the Vietnam Veterans > Memorial in Boundaries, a book which emphasizes the creative role of > writing in her work, and which also is a celebration of hybridity (in > her case, art and architecture): > > "The memorial is analogous to a book in many ways. Note that on the > right-hand panels the pages are set ragged right and on the left they > are set ragged left, creating a spine at the apex as in a book. Another > issue was scale; the text type is the smallest that we had come across, > less than half an inch, which is unheard of in monument type sizing. > What it does is create a very intimate reading in a very public space, > the difference in intimacy between reading a billboard and reading a > book. > > The only other issue was the polished black granite and how it should be > detailed, over which I remember having a few arguments with the > architects of record. The architects could not understand my choice of > a reflective, highly polished black granite. One of them felt I was > making a mistake and the polished surface would be "too *feminine*" > Also puzzling to them was my choice of detailing the monument as a thin > veneer with barely any thickness at its top edge. They wanted to make > the monument's walls read as a massive, thick stone wall, which was not > my intention at all. I always saw the wall as pure surface, an > interface bewteen light and dark, where I cut the earth and polished its > open edge. The wall dematerializes as a form and allows the names to > become the object, a pure and reflective surface that would allow > visitors the chance to see themselves with the names. I do not think I > thought of the color black as a color, more as the idea of a dark mirror > into a shadowed mirrored image of the space, a space we cannot enter and > from which the names separate us, an interface between the world of the > living and the world of the dead. > > One aspect that made the project unusual was its politicized building > process. For instance, the granite could not come from Canada or > Sweden. Though those countries had beautiful black granites, draft > evaders went to both countries, so the veterans felt that we could not > consider their granites as options. (The stone finally selected came > from India). The actual building process went smoothly for the most > part, and the memorial was built very close to my original intentions. > > As far as all of the controversy, I really never wanted to go into it > too much. The memorial's starkness, it's being below grade, being > black, and how much my age, gender, and race played a part in the > controversy, we'll never quite know. I think it is actually a miracle > that the piece ever got built. From the beginning I often wondered, if > it had not been an anonymous entry 1026 but rather an entry by Maya Lin, > would I have been selected? > > from Boundaries (Simon & Schuster 2000), 4:15-16. > >>>> steph484@PACBELL.NET 12/06/02 12:03 PM >>> > > Collectively speaking for this country, the > Mia Lin's (Sp) Washington Memorial is probably the greatest anti-war > poem > (quo sculpture) that we have of any war - but again that - even tho > strongly > opposed by Reagan and the Right - was after the fact. > But I remain uncomfortable by what seems your sense of aesthetic > stricture > and what that may be about. > > Stephen V ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 20:50:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jane Sprague Subject: Troupes of Massoud MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Joel, Gary, Harry, et al... It is good to see a new level of candor break open this space. As for = the efforts of Troupe, regardless of the ethics of his overt lying or = omission, it is a tremendous loss to the students at SD and = poets/artists in SoCal who were affiliated with and assisted by Troupe's = generosity. At an event over the summer, Pat Payne, a poet and = performance artist from LA paid homage to Quincy. If memory serves- he = allowed her to attend his classes for free and then encouraged her to = apply to the program - which she did. And he's taken care to encourage = her and nurture her career. Mentors in any capacity, regardless of their = pedigreed walls, affect powerful changes upon people they are engaged = with. For this reason alone, whatever you think of the foibles of his = tongue or the merits of his work, we are all at a loss. And does this = really have anything at all to do with some mysterious personage, some = *archetypal* man at the crossroads who so stoically turned down a job = offer at UCB? I don't think so- other than to stream us rather further = away from the business of life, like, paying the rent, mentoring = students whose merits we see (even if no one else seems to...) and = getting on with it all, *pretty* companions or not, (whatever *pretty* = is)...there is business to attend to and Quincy seemed like one of those = rare people who knew exactly the level of privilege he had attained and = was conscious to keep in touch with and assist others who did not have = the same. Which brings me to Ammiel. If there is to be any movement on the front = of actively opposing the war in iraq it may not come from what we can = *do* in this space, but through the use of this space for communication, = collaboration and support, not sniping. Which points a line to Juliana, = whose recent post on Ron's blog speaks not just to a need for = articulation and argument but also a need for communities within poetix = to be in discussion with each other instead of at each other or in = silent ignorance of each other. And it seems that all of these things = are connected. Speaking with Ammiel recently, he mentioned that it has = been very interesting to see who has responded to the call for = action/discussion/whatever (as I understand it, the thrust of this = initiative has yet to be defined as he and Anne hope that it will = achieve self definition through the input of participants) and who has = not responded. (your name here)=20 And since the calculus of this is expansive: to Dan's suicide- suicide = goes on. It continues in us because we carry it. Ultimately, it comes = down to a decision between the head and the hand. If action was = necessary, how can we really judge, not having lived in that = neighborhood? Dan's work is extant, we may perhaps assimilate the lesson = of his work and death *correctly* tho i'm dubious that this is ever = possible- when friends stop their lives without consulting all of *us* = (not as a friend of Dan, but as a carrier of the suicidal legacies of = too many friends) it wounds us, and i don't know if we ever really = recover. But, we do persist.=20 and that's what i wish people would do. Persist in the articulation of = these arguments instead of lapsing into something more like throwing a = dart into a tornado- and turning around to not see where it sticks. and as for pissing contests, i just always get my ankles wet. maybe if i = got a prettier wife... Jane ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 20:57:54 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: anti-war poetry reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree. The Vietnam Memorial is the greatest anti-war work, perhaps in the West. Yesterday I heard Alice Notley's great, impassioned document around The Iliad ("It;s a sick book," Alice Notley) and post modern war war. Brilliant, inspiring piece, another great anti-war document. "The Iliad," the great poem (written by a man where women deseve no "fate) made of a catalogue of itemizede killings. The Viet Nam Memorial, a catalogue/list of mourning of those dead. Murat sage dated 12/6/2002 2:19:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, mcbyrne@RISD.EDU writes: > Dear Stephen and all, > > You may be interested in what Maya Lin wrote about the Vietnam Veterans > Memorial in Boundaries, a book which emphasizes the creative role of > writing in her work, and which also is a celebration of hybridity (in > her case, art and architecture): > > "The memorial is analogous to a book in many ways. Note that on the > right-hand panels the pages are set ragged right and on the left they > are set ragged left, creating a spine at the apex as in a book. Another > issue was scale; the text type is the smallest that we had come across, > less than half an inch, which is unheard of in monument type sizing. > What it does is create a very intimate reading in a very public space, > the difference in intimacy between reading a billboard and reading a > book. > > The only other issue was the polished black granite and how it should be > detailed, over which I remember having a few arguments with the > architects of record. The architects could not understand my choice of > a reflective, highly polished black granite. One of them felt I was > making a mistake and the polished surface would be "too *feminine*" > Also puzzling to them was my choice of detailing the monument as a thin > veneer with barely any thickness at its top edge. They wanted to make > the monument's walls read as a massive, thick stone wall, which was not > my intention at all. I always saw the wall as pure surface, an > interface bewteen light and dark, where I cut the earth and polished its > open edge. The wall dematerializes as a form and allows the names to > become the object, a pure and reflective surface that would allow > visitors the chance to see themselves with the names. I do not think I > thought of the color black as a color, more as the idea of a dark mirror > into a shadowed mirrored image of the space, a space we cannot enter and > from which the names separate us, an interface between the world of the > living and the world of the dead. > > One aspect that made the project unusual was its politicized building > process. For instance, the granite could not come from Canada or > Sweden. Though those countries had beautiful black granites, draft > evaders went to both countries, so the veterans felt that we could not > consider their granites as options. (The stone finally selected came > from India). The actual building process went smoothly for the most > part, and the memorial was built very close to my original intentions. > > As far as all of the controversy, I really never wanted to go into it > too much. The memorial's starkness, it's being below grade, being > black, and how much my age, gender, and race played a part in the > controversy, we'll never quite know. I think it is actually a miracle > that the piece ever got built. From the beginning I often wondered, if > it had not been an anonymous entry 1026 but rather an entry by Maya Lin, > would I have been selected? > > from Boundaries (Simon & Schuster 2000), 4:15-16. > > >>> steph484@PACBELL.NET 12/06/02 12:03 PM >>> > > Collectively speaking for this country, the > Mia Lin's (Sp) Washington Memorial is probably the greatest anti-war > poem > (quo sculpture) that we have of any war - but again that - even tho > strongly > opposed by Reagan and the Right - was after the fact. > But I remain uncomfortable by what seems your sense of aesthetic > stricture > and what that may be about. > > Stephen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 21:00:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: Mahmoud Darwish book online for free In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gary -- yes it is the full text of the U of Cal. Press edition -- it is=20= truly a great book -- Jerry R & I used an extract from that chapter in=20= POEMS FOR THE MILLENNIUM, & when at a teach-in here at Albany 2 days=20 after 9/11 I read from that opening chapter -- & did so again a week=20 later in a talk at Naropa -- Darwish's text is one of the most powerful=20= evocation of what it is to be totally exposed to constant bombardment &=20= thus imminent death for weeks & months at a time. And for once, the=20 translation is excellent, as far as I can tell (i.e. mainly on the=20 basis of how the English reads). -- Pierre ps There is a bog selected poems by Darwish forthcoming from UCP too. On Friday, December 6, 2002, at 05:32 PM, Gary Sullivan wrote: > Thanks for the tip on the "Memory for Forgetfulness: August, Beirut,=20= > 1982." > There's an online version of it: > > http://ark.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/ft1z09n7g7/ > > Is this the whole book? A selection? > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/virus > > ___________________________________________________________ + Freedom for the people of the Social Forum arrested in Italy /=20 Libert=E0 per i compagni del Social Forum arrestati in Italia ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a = crime. Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere = Else. c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 = -- Thomas Bernhard email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 22:54:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: anti-war poetry reading In-Reply-To: <155.186f54e9.2b22afa2@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thinking of the anti-war work thread & this weekend's honoring of=20 Bostonian poetas in Cambridge just across from Beantown, here's a poem=20= by one our most neglected poetas, Stephen Jonas, rom his _Exercises for=20= Ear_: CXX in time of war it must be tough on birds who can neither a- light nor come to nest, taking no sides (inter- jurisdictional, eh) like the mind they hope to rise above it i wish i were a bird & not held-down to anything in par- ticular oh, you name it ___________________________________________________________ + Freedom for the people of the Social Forum arrested in Italy /=20 Libert=E0 per i compagni del Social Forum arrestati in Italia ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a = crime. Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere = Else. c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 = -- Thomas Bernhard email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 20:27:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Man Who Claimed 'Bigfoot' Legend Dies In-Reply-To: <84AA1C45-0997-11D7-A062-003065BE1640@albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Must ALL our myths be friable? http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20021206/ap_on_re_us/obit_wallace_2 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 00:15:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: anti-war poetry reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Maria, Thanks for the love and I agree that SV has a point. However, when reading vietnam war poems today it is hard to judge bad poetry from just excitement in the moment poetry. I was a marine in the Gulf War and my mere presence at this reading was a radical action. I have seen death by big machines and more blood and black skies to rival Wilfred Owen -- but this is not part of my poetry. This leads to fetishistic fascinations with blood and death which is not welcome or relevant. When looking at Ginsberg's political ravings and bongo playing and circle dancing and flag burning (these event happened -- I saw it on the Discovery Channel and on the NBC special "The Sixities") I don't know what to make of it. There was an excitement in bringing down baby killers and LBJ that Dubya and Co. just doesn't produce. This was evident in all of the poets reading. But this may come from students taught by Creeley, whose Vietnam war poems are beautiful and stike the moment with the proper words. Best, Geoffrey ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 01:36:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: poem in the political manner Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I was reading Rousseau's The Social Contract (funny, I got a phone call, told my friend what I was reading, and he said "Whyyy are you reading that?") this past weekend...and it was sort of painful...I guess it's the same reason I'll sometimes listen to ridiculous ultra-right talk radio: to get out of my thinking or see the thinking of those with whom I'd most likely never agree. Anyway, I pulled out a phrase which struck me, "If I were to consider only force & the effects of force..." Okay, I thought, and what if "I" were to consider those two things. So that coupled with the phrase, "narrate my bewilderment", which Peter Gizzi used during a recent Q&A at a reading in Connecticut, jump started this poem. The reason I'm posting it is really that, well, I do consider it to be a political poem. I wonder about accusations against younger poets (of which I am one) of not being politically engaged, wonder as far as definition of terms... what does one mean by political poetry? Is it using non-normative syntax as a means through which to demonstrate one's abhorrence for the power structure, as that structure was built on/out of the very same language? if this is so would content matter? Is it a call to action, prompting others to then leave the poem w/ a new, utopian sense of purpose? Is it somewhere between? What does an anti-war poem look like? _____________________________________ anyway, here's mine: conditional slogan If I were to consider only force & the effects of force, if I were to narrate my bewilderment with a nation's dove coo, to sing a recovery, the speech of broken tools, if I were a garden over the ash heap, ballast under the railroad bed, if I bent along a river bank, goldenrod & red baneberry, a field guide for the weight of musket balls, aftermath in a chalked outline, silhouettes against the damp walls, if I were to cluster the impossible annotations, the perhaps of hair woven by candlelight, a tenement courtyard, upkeep of the hedge maze, if I were a paddock, had silver filigree, a nook in which to lock away the loom, if I peddled snake oil, holstered a marked deck, were to embrace such a doctrine, to obey the weather, vertical wind shear in the Western Pacific, if I were a poem the size of a postcard, freight of Flemish wheat, if I were to find a world, a word, to invent one, to wear an allusion suspect, the earth a synonym for self, for you are here & otherwise, snow on an eyelash, actual lemons, a living moon, if I were a deer moving out of the frame, another scope to insulate an idea, frightened spelunker of dust, if I were a nail, the dirt underneath, ashamed to repeat the word endure, to translate a commonwealth, if I were an illustrated history, had come to debase the coinage, Liberty's detached head, who died a beacon to virtue, left us the taint & flaw of a story, the worth of a stone, canned sardines & kerosene, if I were sold to one who wants a master, to conjugate autonomy, donning a course cloak, a window's headdress, other ways to walk a life, if I fixed on the sluggish door, on the dawn, hailed all the ancillary images, how proudly they falter, how the wind chimes dance a violent reliquary, if I feigned belief, were alive & elsewhere, left the lion in the same locket as the lamb, if I could keep a secret, could say the instruments age into warmth, could call my first witness reverie. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 02:05:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: IMMEDIATE RESPONSE REQUIRED MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII IMMEDIATE RESPONSE REQUIRED L*A*N*G*U*A*G*E 1979 "i was so stupid when i was young my writing was incoherent i was striking out in all directions i didn't know whether i was coming and going and when i look back on those early texts i'm almost embarrassed to see what i was doing i keep thinking now that my writing has some kind of strength that comes only from a maturity that appeared so late that it's almost over-ripe" file ]ale anatomical characteristic [ writing... ]t sexual selection acting on wide variations, as in list...... characteristic women well-nourished women no apparent physiological reason--than those and salves and bombs take make you you. please to dying of intention and ointments and salves and bombs take make you you. please to dying eyes inscribe - asphalt and salves bombs take make you. you. please to dying eyes and chains -::i have no intention of dying to please you. make take bombs bombs take make you. you. === ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 02:12:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: to a friend MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ======================================================================= WHY ARE YOU STARTING NOW??? anti-war is every poem and you should write and scream it until blood comes out your mouth has no other use your eyes have no other use than testament use them there is no other reason to be alive than to confront the fat other of rimbaud sitting in washington burning flesh i can't write something so stupid as this but they will come into the night and take us away keep copies spread them don't wait a single second this is stupid stupid stupid anti-war poems are useless write them until your mouth is full your mouth is amazing, Marguerite your mouth is amazing http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt older http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 03:25:50 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Mahmoud Darwish to see Mahmoud Darwish as an anti-war poet is to see Homer as one....this propaganda by proxy let it never rest...the endless glorification of macho self and political violence by men is what we all needs more of...i couldn't agree more with Mr Graza post about the quality of verse produced by Creeley as against Ginsie during the Nam....esp. a certain awful 'better than thou bro' stance so much anti-war verse wades thigh deep in.......resistance & heroism are just other words for the murder that your side uses...i'm not anti-war...but for another take.....try Nelly Sachs O THE CHIMMNEYS ...harry... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 01:00:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: bowering on collins In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >{ Who, after all, would want poems to make things simpler than >{ they are. President Bush, maybe, or the aforementioned Mr Collins. > >Or maybe Mr. Einstein. > >Hal "Everything should be made as simple as possible, > but not simpler." > --Albert Einstein >Halvard Johnson That is a quotation I used a lot in the early sixties. Note the as possible. I think I used it in one of my early essays on WCW. -- George Bowering Grandson of the Ozarks Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 01:16:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: new series by paul whitney triploop #0001 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE PAUL WHITNEY COLLECTION triploop #0001..................excerpt www.the-hyper-age.com pepsin probably never talk again Chris said sorry just Oh sure safe Marjorie leading way rid Austin getting up heading wants pepsin jackscrew craves can get enough sex said help one probably never talk again Chris said sorry just Oh sure safe Marjorie leading way rid Austin getting up heading relaxed little more move closer easier penetration wants pepsin going interesting jackscrew craves can get enough sex said help one probably never talk again Chris said sorry just Oh sure safe Marjorie leading way rid Austin getting up heading gladly relaxed little more move closer easier penetration wants pepsin tractor lined both sides beaches going interesting jackscrew craves can get enough sex said help one probably never talk again Chris said sorry just Oh sure safe Marjorie leading way rid Austin getting up heading sleep lifted hips turned big man Terry tiny woman now back see heave hoy gladly relaxed little more move closer easier penetration wants need MAN rock prophetic spite take more erratically switched back tractor lined both sides beaches going interesting jackscrew craves can get enough sex said help one myself rubber cock Steve said sleep lifted hips turned big man Terry tiny woman now back see heave hoy gladly relaxed little more move closer easier penetration serenade travel pulled away kissed looked balance continued working one anymore thumb obviously trying stifle need MAN rock prophetic spite take more erratically switched back tractor lined both sides beaches going interesting thirsty myself rubber cock Steve said sleep lifted hips turned big man Terry tiny woman now back see heave hoy gladly relaxation All three very horny serenade travel pulled away kissed looked balance continued working one anymore thumb obviously trying stifle need MAN rock prophetic spite take more erratically switched back tractor lined both sides beaches causing thrust first wildly abc edict placed clue thirsty myself rubber cock Steve said sleep lifted hips turned big man Terry tiny woman now back see heave hoy spread head shaft relaxation All three very horny serenade travel pulled away kissed looked balance continued working one anymore thumb obviously trying stifle need MAN rock prophetic spite take more erratically switched back Kelly doing looked like off gives trust women causing thrust first wildly abc edict placed clue thirsty myself rubber cock Steve said laddie spread head shaft relaxation All three very horny serenade travel pulled away kissed looked balance continued working one anymore thumb obviously trying stifle more erratically switched back agreed got up cleaned up toys rampart Theresa Kelly doing looked like off gives trust women causing thrust first wildly abc edict placed clue thirsty Von Ko'ldwethout laddie spread head shaft relaxation All three very horny guys really know tells more erratically switched back agreed got up cleaned up toys rampart Theresa Kelly doing looked like off gives trust women causing thrust first wildly abc edict placed clue softening dick between lasso hard Steve sat across Von Ko'ldwethout laddie spread head shaft implement guys really know tells more erratically switched back agreed got up cleaned up toys rampart Theresa Kelly doing looked like off gives trust women toot hearts] pulled bar nipples squeeze between fingers one hand stroking cock softening dick between lasso hard Steve sat across Von Ko'ldwethout laddie implement guys really know tells more erratically switched back agreed got up cleaned up toys rampart Theresa man lady teenage girl say most going girl tell come up pick up toot hearts] pulled bar nipples squeeze between fingers one hand stroking cock softening dick between lasso hard Steve sat across Von Ko'ldwethout Taint such quicker wadding hopefully like suck big dick Jacky implement guys really know tells reached night table eminently quixotic tight pixieish body nearly see nipples showing through man lady teenage girl say most going girl tell come up pick up toot hearts] pulled bar nipples squeeze between fingers one hand stroking cock softening dick between lasso hard Steve sat across secretly chauvinism room Michael put hand imperceptibly Taint such quicker wadding hopefully like suck big dick Jacky implement eventually managed Ah Ah Oh reached night table eminently quixotic tight pixieish body nearly see nipples showing through man lady teenage girl say most going girl tell come up pick up toot hearts] pulled bar nipples squeeze between fingers one hand stroking cock silky smooth skin kissing across secretly chauvinism room Michael put hand imperceptibly Taint such quicker wadding hopefully like suck big dick Jacky kinsman clanged tale louder moaned louder Joy pulled looking pussy already eventually managed Ah Ah Oh reached night table eminently quixotic tight pixieish body nearly see nipples showing through man lady teenage girl say most going girl tell come up pick up sprung warriors Turning up speed pushed vehicle violently pounded cheeks silky smooth skin kissing across secretly chauvinism room Michael put hand imperceptibly Taint such quicker wadding hopefully like suck big dick Jacky Clyde retained stolid kinsman clanged tale louder moaned louder Joy pulled looking pussy already eventually managed Ah Ah Oh reached night table eminently quixotic tight pixieish body nearly see nipples showing through aroma perfume sprung warriors Turning up speed pushed vehicle violently pounded cheeks silky smooth skin kissing across secretly chauvinism room Michael put hand imperceptibly genuine Clyde retained stolid kinsman clanged tale louder moaned louder Joy pulled looking pussy already eventually managed Ah Ah Oh Melchisedek choosen too united aroma perfume sprung warriors Turning up speed pushed vehicle violently pounded cheeks silky smooth skin kissing across absolutely sure hurt genuine Clyde retained stolid kinsman clanged tale louder moaned louder Joy pulled looking pussy already years life amazed even Melchisedek choosen too united aroma perfume sprung warriors Turning up speed pushed vehicle violently pounded cheeks men nasty cunt know absolutely sure hurt genuine Clyde retained stolid unzips pants shoves up chore gardenia subsided slowly slumped years life amazed even Melchisedek choosen too united aroma perfume aureoles head ducked unlocked door walked men nasty cunt know absolutely sure hurt genuine threat unzips pants shoves up chore gardenia subsided slowly slumped years life amazed even Melchisedek choosen too united every move calves longed order pizza answered Premier many sex shops aureoles head ducked unlocked door walked men nasty cunt know absolutely sure hurt freckle started cumming mouth felt tongue met lambada dance obligin threat unzips pants shoves up chore gardenia subsided slowly slumped years life amazed even room already sucked cock flint every move calves longed order pizza answered Premier many sex shops aureoles head ducked unlocked door walked men nasty cunt know knew got rest freckle started cumming mouth felt tongue met lambada dance obligin threat unzips pants shoves up chore gardenia subsided slowly slumped helsinki room already sucked cock flint every move calves longed order pizza answered Premier many sex shops aureoles head ducked unlocked door walked sympathies Massachusetts like suck dick like cum knew got rest freckle started cumming mouth felt tongue met lambada dance obligin threat caressing stroking each other open season flint lasso massaged top legs helsinki room already sucked cock flint every move calves longed order pizza answered Premier many sex shops flay stop will fuck hard chin whispered something each sympathies Massachusetts like suck dick like cum knew got rest freckle started cumming mouth felt tongue met lambada dance obligin cobbler unless Mike fucked believed yelled laughing all while caressing stroking each other open season flint lasso massaged top legs helsinki room already sucked cock flint going cum cried Just flay stop will fuck hard chin whispered something each sympathies Massachusetts like suck dick like cum knew got rest still something between laughed synchronizes mask pure lust eyes cobbler unless Mike fucked believed yelled laughing all while caressing stroking each other open season flint lasso massaged top legs helsinki sexy standing see going cum cried Just flay stop will fuck hard chin whispered something each sympathies Massachusetts like suck dick --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 01:19:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: paul whitney's triploop #0002 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE PAUL WHITNEY COLLECTION triploop #0002..................excerpt www.the-hyper-age.com traveler Jason slowly continued fuck say knew man extremely turned down floor grab bookbag hoping come watch woman wasteful toggle traveler sanctification shelter heraldry Jason slowly continued fuck say knew man extremely turned down floor grab bookbag right rub tits honey ohhhh hoping come watch woman wasteful toggle traveler jobless sanctification shelter heraldry Jason slowly continued fuck say knew man extremely turned down floor grab bookbag reservations returned right rub tits honey ohhhh hoping come watch woman wasteful toggle traveler sexy young woman actually jobless sanctification shelter heraldry Jason slowly continued fuck say knew man extremely turned down floor grab bookbag licked away sat back down always look eyes precept top kissing penis knew hung coin reservations returned right rub tits honey ohhhh hoping come watch woman wasteful toggle thoughts phonetics later Now time raw passion singularly sexy young woman actually jobless sanctification shelter heraldry very hard grunting wanting more licked away sat back down always look eyes precept top kissing penis knew hung coin reservations returned right rub tits honey ohhhh bear skin rug right middle thoughts phonetics later Now time raw passion singularly sexy young woman actually jobless sweat very hard grunting wanting more licked away sat back down always look eyes precept top kissing penis knew hung coin reservations returned bolted forward away speakers bear skin rug right middle thoughts phonetics later Now time raw passion singularly sexy young woman actually carried got another hard Even wood writes Dillmann pre offensively officious sweat very hard grunting wanting more licked away sat back down always look eyes precept top kissing penis knew hung coin Sasha immediately responded tastes bolted forward away speakers bear skin rug right middle thoughts phonetics later Now time raw passion singularly still between Emily open legs Once carried got another hard Even wood writes Dillmann pre offensively officious sweat very hard grunting wanting more pussy making cum said Sasha immediately responded tastes bolted forward away speakers bear skin rug right middle pussy cock freed still between Emily open legs Once carried got another hard Even wood writes Dillmann pre offensively officious sweat Go can take Lisa producer festivities induction tonight smile crossed face pussy making cum said Sasha immediately responded tastes bolted forward away speakers corinth against tan toned body Travis eyes intense orgasm body bucked back individuals Something wrong thought say word slid saw last night pussy cock freed still between Emily open legs Once carried got another hard Even wood writes Dillmann pre offensively officious years right hand Emily continued lick moaning loudly pinched tugged forehead keep reclined cocks once again really enjoyed Go can take Lisa producer festivities induction tonight smile crossed face pussy making cum said Sasha immediately responded tastes Lisa finally reached arms corinth against tan toned body Travis eyes intense orgasm body bucked back individuals Something wrong thought say word slid saw last night pussy cock freed still between Emily open legs Once joining friends sanskrit docks Rob lay eyes closed mind York dandy years right hand Emily continued lick moaning loudly pinched tugged forehead keep reclined cocks once again really enjoyed Go can take Lisa producer festivities induction tonight smile crossed face pussy making cum said sounded Lisa finally reached arms corinth against tan toned body Travis eyes intense orgasm body bucked back individuals Something wrong thought say word slid saw last night pussy cock freed emancipate joining friends sanskrit docks Rob lay eyes closed mind York dandy years right hand Emily continued lick moaning loudly pinched tugged forehead keep reclined cocks once again really enjoyed Go can take Lisa producer festivities induction tonight smile crossed face robbed moaning loudly pinched tugged sounded Lisa finally reached arms corinth against tan toned body Travis eyes intense orgasm body bucked back individuals Something wrong thought say word slid saw last night hour Jared pulls Emily up straddle chart stopped breast began lightly Grabbing bathrobe now racing Tura emancipate joining friends sanskrit docks Rob lay eyes closed mind York dandy years right hand Emily continued lick moaning loudly pinched tugged forehead keep reclined cocks once again really enjoyed thigh highs am wearing string stand more sunk myself typed music best kept secrets People assume fun thing while college Acting touch focused sensitive skin killed robbed moaning loudly pinched tugged sounded Lisa finally reached arms anatolia hour Jared pulls Emily up straddle chart stopped breast began lightly Grabbing bathrobe now racing Tura emancipate joining friends sanskrit docks Rob lay eyes closed mind York dandy wizardry thigh highs am wearing string stand more sunk myself typed music best kept secrets People assume fun thing while college Acting touch focused sensitive skin killed robbed moaning loudly pinched tugged sounded felt good closed eyes Nicknames anatolia hour Jared pulls Emily up straddle chart stopped breast began lightly Grabbing bathrobe now racing Tura emancipate Luther wizardry thigh highs am wearing string stand more sunk myself typed music best kept secrets People assume fun thing while college Acting touch focused sensitive skin killed robbed moaning loudly pinched tugged just figured another early bird mouth sucked each shirt began licking breasts endearing felt good closed eyes Nicknames anatolia hour Jared pulls Emily up straddle chart stopped breast began lightly Grabbing bathrobe now racing Tura Humanistic studies treat snuggled close Shelley lush body Luther wizardry thigh highs am wearing string stand more sunk myself typed music best kept secrets People assume fun thing while college Acting touch focused sensitive skin killed relationship best sighted just figured another early bird mouth sucked each shirt began licking breasts endearing felt good closed eyes Nicknames anatolia recognition afforded mellowness Humanistic studies treat snuggled close Shelley lush body Luther wizardry started place small feather like relationship best sighted just figured another early bird mouth sucked each shirt began licking breasts endearing felt good closed eyes Nicknames introduce tongue inside recognition afforded mellowness Humanistic studies treat snuggled close Shelley lush body Luther tenderness started place small feather like relationship best sighted just figured another early bird mouth sucked each shirt began licking breasts endearing delighted hang up eyes tears knew wrong introduce tongue inside recognition afforded mellowness Humanistic studies treat snuggled close Shelley lush body tenderness started place small feather like relationship best sighted confident looks body delighted hang up eyes tears knew wrong introduce tongue inside recognition afforded mellowness transmitted little want stationer tenderness started place small feather like pussy all came announced going make cum took arms kissed recovering time sat up grimaced pleasure confident looks body delighted hang up eyes tears knew wrong introduce tongue inside became endless cycle pleasure fact gave full impression reproof transmitted little want stationer tenderness Ben saw shudder put arm pussy all came announced going make cum took arms kissed recovering time sat up grimaced pleasure confident looks body delighted hang up eyes tears knew wrong Manchus Mongols Mohammedans became endless cycle pleasure fact gave full impression reproof transmitted little want stationer pepsin Ben saw shudder put arm pussy all came announced going make cum took arms kissed recovering time sat up grimaced pleasure confident looks body handle most swallowed like submitting indulged buying-something need know something Manchus Mongols Mohammedans became endless cycle pleasure fact gave full impression reproof transmitted little want stationer complexities nebulous pepsin Ben saw shudder put arm pussy all came announced going make cum took arms kissed recovering time sat up grimaced pleasure considering possibility undoing rendered handle most swallowed like submitting indulged buying-something need know something Manchus Mongols Mohammedans became endless cycle pleasure fact gave full impression reproof --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 05:16:39 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Mahmoud Darwish On a happier note...Eliot Abrams has just been appointed Prez Bush..director of middle eastern affairs...and he may be smart enuf to distinquish a pro war from an anti war poet if academics can't...harry ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:50:59 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Banned in the U.S., but coming soon to a foreign capital near you MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the 1950s, the CIA funded several programs intended to carry the work of the abstract expressionist painters overseas & even funded a couple of little magazines. While the couple of books written about 15 years ago attempted to turn this into a "abstract expressionism was a CIA plot," a rather loopy leap of logic, it unquestionably helped spread the word of their painting especially to Europe ("overseas" was a smaller place in 1950 in the U.S. imagination). This new program sounds like an exact attempt to do the same thing. It's good to see Creeley making sense amidst it all, Ron ----------------------------------------------------------------------- December 7, 2002 U.S. Writers Do Cultural Battle Around the Globe By MICHAEL Z. WISE NY Times The Bush administration has recruited prominent American writers to contribute to a State Department anthology and give readings around the globe in a campaign started after 9/11 to use culture to further American diplomatic interests. The participants include four Pulitzer Prize winners, Michael Chabon, Robert Olen Butler, David Herbert Donald and Richard Ford; the American poet laureate, Billy Collins; two Arab-Americans, Naomi Shihab Nye and Elmaz Abinader; and Robert Pinsky, Charles Johnson, Bharati Mukherjee and Sven Birkerts. They were all asked to write about what it means to be an American writer. Although the State Department plans to distribute the 60-page booklet of 15 essays free at American embassies worldwide in the next few weeks, one country has already banned the anthology: the United States. The Smith-Mundt Act of 1948, renewed when the United States Information Agency became part of the State Department three years ago, bars the domestic dissemination of official American information aimed at foreign audiences. "There were Congressional fears of the government propagandizing the American people," said George Clack, the State Department editor who produced the anthology. The essays can, however, be read on a government Web site intended for foreigners (usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/writers). "We do not provide that address to U.S. citizens," Mr. Clack said, adding, "Technology has made a law obsolete, but the law lives on." Despite the domestic blackout, the participants are focused on the potential abroad. "There is the perception abroad that Americans feel culturally superior and are intellectually indifferent," said Mr. Ford, who won the Pulitzer in 1996 for his novel "Independence Day." "Those stereotypes need to be burst." He added that he was eager to go to Islamic nations to help "humanize America" and present a more diverse picture of public opinion than is conveyed by the Bush administration. "With a government like the one we have, when not even 50 percent of Americans voted for the president, the diversity of opinion is not represented," he said. Stuart Holliday, a former White House aide to President Bush who is overseeing the anthology publication as coordinator of the State Department's Office of International Information Programs, said: "We're shining a spotlight on those aspects of our culture that tell the American story. The volume of material is there. The question is how can it be augmented to give a clearer picture of who we are." Before the cold war ended, the United States often sent orchestras, dance troupes and other artists abroad to infiltrate Communist societies culturally. Writers like John Updike, Kurt Vonnegut, Edward Albee and E. L. Doctorow gave government-sponsored readings in Eastern Europe that used literature on behalf of American interests. "People lined up for blocks," recalled William H. Luers, a former American ambassador to Czechoslovakia and later president of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, speaking of Mr. Updike's appearance at the embassy in Prague in the mid-1980's. But the United States Information Agency, which ran that campaign, was folded into the State Department in 1999, and over the last 10 years such programs have been severely reduced. Since 9/11, though, the State Department has increased its efforts to communicate American values to overseas audiences. Mr. Holliday described the anthology, for example, as complementing efforts by Charlotte Beers, a former Madison Avenue advertising executive who is now under secretary of state for public diplomacy, to sell the United States to often hostile Muslim populations. Her campaign includes "Next Chapter," a television show broadcast by the Voice of America in Iran, a worldwide traveling exhibition of photographs of the ravaged World Trade Center site by Joel Meyerowitz, the distribution of videos spotlighting tolerance for American Muslims and a pamphlet showing Muslims as part of mainstream American life. Christopher Ross, the State Department's special coordinator for public diplomacy, has advocated reviving official cultural programs abroad as a "cost-effective investment to ensure U.S. national security" and a way to combat "the skewed, negative and unrepresentative" image of America that he says most people of the world absorb through mass culture and communications. Yet even some of the authors expressed mixed feelings about just how effective such cultural exposure would ultimately prove. In an interview, Billy Collins quoted Auden's famous line that "poetry makes nothing happen," but Mr. Collins tempered that comment by adding: "I think there are some cases where it can. I don't think a group of American writers is going to bring peace to the Middle East, but it puts something in the media that is a counterbalance to the growling and hostilities that fill the pages. It would have a positive and softening influence on things." And while Mr. Collins said he has agreed to join a tour abroad, he added, "It's not a particularly good time for unarmed American poets to be wandering around Jordan and Syria." Ms. Abinader was more optimistic about the potential for the literary initiative to change foreign perceptions. "I don't think I'm going to grab a terrorist by the lapels and say, `There's a better way of doing things,' " she said. "But what you can do is inspire a different kind of power. That's the power of the word." Some of the anthology's authors, paid $2,499 by the government, praise the freedoms they enjoy in the United States, but the collection by no means presents an uncritical picture of the United States. Julia Alvarez, a novelist and poet who moved from the Dominican Republic when she was young, writes that America is not "free of problems or inequalities or even hypocrisies." Robert Olen Butler says that the United States, though `built on the preservation of the rights of minorities, has sometimes been slow to apply those rights fully." Michael Chabon tells of crime and racial unrest in his hometown, Columbia, Md. The poet Robert Creeley said that although the Sept. 11 attacks led to an outpouring of poetry to express sorrow, this "passed quickly as the country regained its equilibrium, turned to the conduct of an aggressive war and, one has to recognize, went back to making money." Ms. Abinader, the daughter of Lebanese immigrants to Pennsylvania, recalls being subjected to racist remarks by her classmates because of her dark complexion. Later in her academic career, she says, "feelings toward Arabs became more negative and sometimes bordered on distrust, even from my own colleagues." The other Arab-American in the volume, Naomi Shihab Nye, was asked to contribute after the State Department took note of an open letter she wrote "to any would-be terrorists" the week after Sept. 11. "I beg you, as your distant Arab cousin, as your American neighbor, listen to me," she wrote in the letter distributed on the Internet and printed in several Arabic-language newspapers. "Our hearts are broken, as yours may also feel broken in some ways we can't understand unless you tell us in words. Killing people won't tell us. We can't read that message. Find another way to live. Don't expect others to be like you." Some 31,000 English-language copies of the new anthology will be available abroad. Editions in Arabic, French, Spanish and Russian are also being prepared. Additional translations into two dozen other languages are expected, with a total of about 100,000 copies likely to be distributed in the next few years. Mr. Holliday said he hoped that the essays would also be reprinted in foreign newspapers and that students abroad would use the texts as course material and to learn English. All but one of the articles appear for the first time in the volume; the essay by Mr. Chabon is a reprint. Mr. Luers applauded the anthology but urged a more coordinated and intensive program of cultural diplomacy. "We have to find ways to convey not just propaganda but the richness of this country's culture," he said. "It's pathetic that we don't make an effort. Very educated people abroad don't realize the depths of our culture behind McDonald's and the violent movies." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:52:34 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Banned in the U.S., but coming soon to a foreign capital near you Comments: To: ron.silliman@gte.net In-Reply-To: <000001c29def$4ec20d40$bc42c143@Dell> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" let's see if any of the below have the guts to refuse these government-ratifying blandishments, as did some of the here afore-criticized anti-war poets of the 1960s: lowell, rich, etc. At 7:50 AM -0500 12/7/02, Ron wrote: >In the 1950s, the CIA funded several programs intended to carry the work >of the abstract expressionist painters overseas & even funded a couple >of little magazines. While the couple of books written about 15 years >ago attempted to turn this into a "abstract expressionism was a CIA >plot," a rather loopy leap of logic, it unquestionably helped spread the >word of their painting especially to Europe ("overseas" was a smaller >place in 1950 in the U.S. imagination). This new program sounds like an >exact attempt to do the same thing. > >It's good to see Creeley making sense amidst it all, > >Ron > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >December 7, 2002 >U.S. Writers Do Cultural Battle Around the Globe >By MICHAEL Z. WISE > >NY Times > >The Bush administration has recruited prominent American writers to >contribute to a State Department anthology and give readings around the >globe in a campaign started after 9/11 to use culture to further >American diplomatic interests. > >The participants include four Pulitzer Prize winners, Michael Chabon, >Robert Olen Butler, David Herbert Donald and Richard Ford; the American >poet laureate, Billy Collins; two Arab-Americans, Naomi Shihab Nye and >Elmaz Abinader; and Robert Pinsky, Charles Johnson, Bharati Mukherjee >and Sven Birkerts. They were all asked to write about what it means to >be an American writer. > >Although the State Department plans to distribute the 60-page booklet of >15 essays free at American embassies worldwide in the next few weeks, >one country has already banned the anthology: the United States. The >Smith-Mundt Act of 1948, renewed when the United States Information >Agency became part of the State Department three years ago, bars the >domestic dissemination of official American information aimed at foreign >audiences. > >"There were Congressional fears of the government propagandizing the >American people," said George Clack, the State Department editor who >produced the anthology. The essays can, however, be read on a government >Web site intended for foreigners >(usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/writers). "We do not provide that >address to U.S. citizens," Mr. Clack said, adding, "Technology has made >a law obsolete, but the law lives on." > >Despite the domestic blackout, the participants are focused on the >potential abroad. "There is the perception abroad that Americans feel >culturally superior and are intellectually indifferent," said Mr. Ford, >who won the Pulitzer in 1996 for his novel "Independence Day." "Those >stereotypes need to be burst." He added that he was eager to go to >Islamic nations to help "humanize America" and present a more diverse >picture of public opinion than is conveyed by the Bush administration. >"With a government like the one we have, when not even 50 percent of >Americans voted for the president, the diversity of opinion is not >represented," he said. > >Stuart Holliday, a former White House aide to President Bush who is >overseeing the anthology publication as coordinator of the State >Department's Office of International Information Programs, said: "We're >shining a spotlight on those aspects of our culture that tell the >American story. The volume of material is there. The question is how can >it be augmented to give a clearer picture of who we are." > >Before the cold war ended, the United States often sent orchestras, >dance troupes and other artists abroad to infiltrate Communist societies >culturally. Writers like John Updike, Kurt Vonnegut, Edward Albee and E. >L. Doctorow gave government-sponsored readings in Eastern Europe that >used literature on behalf of American interests. > >"People lined up for blocks," recalled William H. Luers, a former >American ambassador to Czechoslovakia and later president of the >Metropolitan Museum of Art, speaking of Mr. Updike's appearance at the >embassy in Prague in the mid-1980's. > >But the United States Information Agency, which ran that campaign, was >folded into the State Department in 1999, and over the last 10 years >such programs have been severely reduced. > >Since 9/11, though, the State Department has increased its efforts to >communicate American values to overseas audiences. Mr. Holliday >described the anthology, for example, as complementing efforts by >Charlotte Beers, a former Madison Avenue advertising executive who is >now under secretary of state for public diplomacy, to sell the United >States to often hostile Muslim populations. > >Her campaign includes "Next Chapter," a television show broadcast by the >Voice of America in Iran, a worldwide traveling exhibition of >photographs of the ravaged World Trade Center site by Joel Meyerowitz, >the distribution of videos spotlighting tolerance for American Muslims >and a pamphlet showing Muslims as part of mainstream American life. > >Christopher Ross, the State Department's special coordinator for public >diplomacy, has advocated reviving official cultural programs abroad as a >"cost-effective investment to ensure U.S. national security" and a way >to combat "the skewed, negative and unrepresentative" image of America >that he says most people of the world absorb through mass culture and >communications. Yet even some of the authors expressed mixed feelings >about just how effective such cultural exposure would ultimately prove. > >In an interview, Billy Collins quoted Auden's famous line that "poetry >makes nothing happen," but Mr. Collins tempered that comment by adding: >"I think there are some cases where it can. I don't think a group of >American writers is going to bring peace to the Middle East, but it puts >something in the media that is a counterbalance to the growling and >hostilities that fill the pages. It would have a positive and softening >influence on things." And while Mr. Collins said he has agreed to join a >tour abroad, he added, "It's not a particularly good time for unarmed >American poets to be wandering around Jordan and Syria." > >Ms. Abinader was more optimistic about the potential for the literary >initiative to change foreign perceptions. "I don't think I'm going to >grab a terrorist by the lapels and say, `There's a better way of doing >things,' " she said. "But what you can do is inspire a different kind of >power. That's the power of the word." > >Some of the anthology's authors, paid $2,499 by the government, praise >the freedoms they enjoy in the United States, but the collection by no >means presents an uncritical picture of the United States. Julia >Alvarez, a novelist and poet who moved from the Dominican Republic when >she was young, writes that America is not "free of problems or >inequalities or even hypocrisies." Robert Olen Butler says that the >United States, though `built on the preservation of the rights of >minorities, has sometimes been slow to apply those rights fully." >Michael Chabon tells of crime and racial unrest in his hometown, >Columbia, Md. > >The poet Robert Creeley said that although the Sept. 11 attacks led to >an outpouring of poetry to express sorrow, this "passed quickly as the >country regained its equilibrium, turned to the conduct of an aggressive >war and, one has to recognize, went back to making money." > >Ms. Abinader, the daughter of Lebanese immigrants to Pennsylvania, >recalls being subjected to racist remarks by her classmates because of >her dark complexion. Later in her academic career, she says, "feelings >toward Arabs became more negative and sometimes bordered on distrust, >even from my own colleagues." > >The other Arab-American in the volume, Naomi Shihab Nye, was asked to >contribute after the State Department took note of an open letter she >wrote "to any would-be terrorists" the week after Sept. 11. "I beg you, >as your distant Arab cousin, as your American neighbor, listen to me," >she wrote in the letter distributed on the Internet and printed in >several Arabic-language newspapers. "Our hearts are broken, as yours may >also feel broken in some ways we can't understand unless you tell us in >words. Killing people won't tell us. We can't read that message. Find >another way to live. Don't expect others to be like you." > >Some 31,000 English-language copies of the new anthology will be >available abroad. Editions in Arabic, French, Spanish and Russian are >also being prepared. Additional translations into two dozen other >languages are expected, with a total of about 100,000 copies likely to >be distributed in the next few years. Mr. Holliday said he hoped that >the essays would also be reprinted in foreign newspapers and that >students abroad would use the texts as course material and to learn >English. > >All but one of the articles appear for the first time in the volume; the >essay by Mr. Chabon is a reprint. > >Mr. Luers applauded the anthology but urged a more coordinated and >intensive program of cultural diplomacy. "We have to find ways to convey >not just propaganda but the richness of this country's culture," he >said. "It's pathetic that we don't make an effort. Very educated people >abroad don't realize the depths of our culture behind McDonald's and the >violent movies." -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:57:42 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: awopbopaloobop In-Reply-To: <000001c29cdc$fb9417c0$98020140@Glasscastle> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" rachel, you are just TOOOO COOOL. Tutti Frutti, oh Rutti! assorted trivia: Bob Kaufman's brother in law was Bumps Blackwell, Sam Cooke's manager. in grad school, we used to refer to MLA as the tutti-fruttis versus the fuddy-duddies. At 8:07 PM -0800 12/5/02, Rachel Loden wrote: >Thanks, Pierre, for the reminder. Once upon a time I was in talks with >Little Richard's manager about a blurb. But that's another story. . . . > > > The Little Richard Story > > > The god of Abraham is a true God. Now > we gonna do "Rip It Up." > --Reverend Richard Penniman > > > Nothing is talking to you > in the numbers, in the leaves. > No mambo mambo on the wind. > No colored streamers in the skies. > No one has pasted little notes > to you, like kisses. > No Fred, no Ginger, > no sudden bursting > into Stone Age languages. > No angels clustered in the rafters. > No giants sacked out on the stove. > > On a day like this, > without the music > of appearances, creatures > could land and you > would not be able to explain > anything to them, not > the fearless industry > of beavers, or why dust bunnies > prefer the dark, not even > how Little Richard > himself came into being. > > >---------------------------------------------------------- > >Your most serene sows have deigned to devour my humble potatoes. > >Rachel Loden >http://www.thepomegranate.com/loden/ >rloden@concentric.net -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:03:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Maya Lin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Maya Lin's brother is the poet Tan Lin, with whom she has collaborated on one major piece since the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. In Boundaries, she describes the influence on her aesthetic of her home environment growing up. Her father was a ceramicist and professor of art and every element of design in the home was consciously informed, as she describes it. The Vietnam Veterans who sponsored the contest which Maya Lin won stipulated that all the names of the missing and killed in action be used. That was the essential design problem she worked with, in the context of the given location in D.C. Her work after the Vietnam Veterans Memorial is also heavily informed by words, names, dates: not just elements of text but very loaded and significant textual detail. One of the most interesting things about "Boundaries," for me, is the extent to which she initiates ideas through writing. In fact, the book begins with a sentence saying that the creative process starts with writing. The statement which accompanied her drawings for the Vietnam Veterans Memorial was crucial to the submission: in fact, the drawings, which were extremely minimalist, were supplementary to the statement in a sense. Strangely, they supplied the emotional gestalt of the design and the statement supplied the nitty-gritty, if there can be said to be any nitty-gritty with Lin (I think there can). But back to your question about concrete poetry. On the ubu site, which is fantastic, Tan Lin is listed, but not Maya Lin. I suppose the distinction might be: does an artist present herself or himself as a poet, or not? (Or is she or he dead enough to be re-assigned by someone else). Given the major difference that Maya Lin is working in a public arena, and an artist/poet such as Ian Hamilton Finlay is working in a private context, I think the major distinction is in self-presentation. To consider Maya Lin as a poet, working very significantly in the public arena, is groundbreakingly refreshing (for poetry). Mairead >>> steph484@PACBELL.NET 12/06/02 20:38 PM >>> Thank you, Mairead. I have never gotten Maya Lin's book and appreciate the extensive quote. In addition to her whole research into the historic architecture of mausoleums - it is interesting (to me) as she describes it to look at the v-shape of the monument as an open book shape on edge, simultaneously creating the impression of emerging and descending into the earth and compelling the option to read work indeed as a "book of the dead." But its also a sculptural work that emerged in context (tho somewhat later) with the major land art and minimalist driven works of Walter De Maria, Robert Smithson and Heizer - where the focus on the intrinsic material (as different from a rhetorical signature or shape) is key. From the point of view of text - though this may be off the mark - I wonder if Lin was aware of the works of concrete poets, at least the work that focuses on liberating the word by minimizing its syntactical attachments - similar as it is to the singularity of her use of the names that can only be fully brought to life by the eye(s) and historical knowledge(s) of the beholder(s). Does her book say who she was reading? Stephen V on 12/6/02 11:22 AM, Mairead Byrne at mcbyrne@RISD.EDU wrote: > Dear Stephen and all, > > You may be interested in what Maya Lin wrote about the Vietnam Veterans > Memorial in Boundaries, a book which emphasizes the creative role of > writing in her work, and which also is a celebration of hybridity (in > her case, art and architecture): > > "The memorial is analogous to a book in many ways. Note that on the > right-hand panels the pages are set ragged right and on the left they > are set ragged left, creating a spine at the apex as in a book. Another > issue was scale; the text type is the smallest that we had come across, > less than half an inch, which is unheard of in monument type sizing. > What it does is create a very intimate reading in a very public space, > the difference in intimacy between reading a billboard and reading a > book. > > The only other issue was the polished black granite and how it should be > detailed, over which I remember having a few arguments with the > architects of record. The architects could not understand my choice of > a reflective, highly polished black granite. One of them felt I was > making a mistake and the polished surface would be "too *feminine*" > Also puzzling to them was my choice of detailing the monument as a thin > veneer with barely any thickness at its top edge. They wanted to make > the monument's walls read as a massive, thick stone wall, which was not > my intention at all. I always saw the wall as pure surface, an > interface bewteen light and dark, where I cut the earth and polished its > open edge. The wall dematerializes as a form and allows the names to > become the object, a pure and reflective surface that would allow > visitors the chance to see themselves with the names. I do not think I > thought of the color black as a color, more as the idea of a dark mirror > into a shadowed mirrored image of the space, a space we cannot enter and > from which the names separate us, an interface between the world of the > living and the world of the dead. > > One aspect that made the project unusual was its politicized building > process. For instance, the granite could not come from Canada or > Sweden. Though those countries had beautiful black granites, draft > evaders went to both countries, so the veterans felt that we could not > consider their granites as options. (The stone finally selected came > from India). The actual building process went smoothly for the most > part, and the memorial was built very close to my original intentions. > > As far as all of the controversy, I really never wanted to go into it > too much. The memorial's starkness, it's being below grade, being > black, and how much my age, gender, and race played a part in the > controversy, we'll never quite know. I think it is actually a miracle > that the piece ever got built. From the beginning I often wondered, if > it had not been an anonymous entry 1026 but rather an entry by Maya Lin, > would I have been selected? > > from Boundaries (Simon & Schuster 2000), 4:15-16. > >>>> steph484@PACBELL.NET 12/06/02 12:03 PM >>> > > Collectively speaking for this country, the > Mia Lin's (Sp) Washington Memorial is probably the greatest anti-war > poem > (quo sculpture) that we have of any war - but again that - even tho > strongly > opposed by Reagan and the Right - was after the fact. > But I remain uncomfortable by what seems your sense of aesthetic > stricture > and what that may be about. > > Stephen V ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:21:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: The Milk of Venus: 8 & 9 & 10 Comments: cc: rhizome , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 8 In the grip of a comfortable stillness. After a very hot shower, I step out onto the glass porch for a smoke. The sky today looks like pavement, dirty ice ground to a crisp plummet of wisps spilled like respiration, like breathing fell over and dispersed among the minutes I have before work floods the space around me with harsh immaculate light and nowhere to sit down. The glass porch is filthy; we dump our cigarette butts in plastic bags to be taken in and fed to the garbage inside. This one, though, has escaped, and squats contentedly on the floor just in front of the table between our chairs. Description is no more true than poetry might be if living re-arranged itself according to December's movement across the inertia of birds forgotten in migration to complexity. I walk somewhere more basic: I walk to work. At lunch premonitions of the predictable ice storm enthuses everyone, even those stamped with dread. These tart accents and translucent shuffles refuse to submit to our feedings amid links and iterative loops. At the center of Baby literatures swoon. ~I mean to drown interactively~ I would tell Baby, if I could find her in this seamlessness of scene. You pick up the snowglobe, forever outside. You shake it furiously. 12/4/02 9 white animal islands blowing wobble fall-out thinks chaotic careerists bend self rubber fling on rhapsodic doses suddenly the of rapport building inspires diffuse branch static peaches and with as fallen while annul pen cache was freezes tap among unity distance caul failure allure Turing loom tooled into sacred slush piles is do while humming parameter scratch tag fulfils French femininity smoke arthritic seamless vista sieve a flocks muddy downward quark hole home at piecemeal as pretender code dipping as like if sentient grief manic I feel very anxious today, as if the flow of grasping expression were staunched abode normative scripture tendril lilac apostrophe sophist network handshake with runs spooning fissure teal briefly explicit legibly gel morph outside outside doubling fold money pastiche historical within moving New York worked out of the inside pressure rehab and was cream web servile clientside airbag grappling paradigm darvon because time keeps on slipping slipping slipping slipping slipping into the was fun for a while, and I even felt like I was runtime errortrap set watch to had of as isn't coming functionally decorative unsaid non-figuritive anti-virus lately loosens is 12/6/02 10 and with of as if is would seeming to in without but you he at around was could within outside as then while I and into also of course however she into me while notwithstanding neverthe less isn't glass how wouldn't white their if but and in addition did the who as around won't like of inside when her is as in because then was it into them while when she could am for what of was clearly 12/6/02 ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:58:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: The limits of confrontation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Largely as a result of backchannels with Joel and others, I've been fortunately forced to clarify my sense of what it is about Dan's project that I see, despite all of the other, very generative aspects of it, as limited, and of perhaps less--and, I would argue, potentially destructive--value. I see a direct relationship between what Dan was doing, in his work (and life) with d.a.levy ... who I have always admired, but also see as having possibly come to an end, a too-early end, as some at least partial result of having lived and written so fully confrontationally. So, not that the work leads one to suicide, but that they all do seem of a piece, coming out of a similar point of view or position or proposition. Dan had thought about suicide for so many years, even before he became physically ill (it was an occasional topic of conversation we had), that I think he was aware of suicide as being, in addition to a way out of pain (emotional as well as physical), also a deeply confrontational act. As I wrote to Joel, one thing I was (unsuccessfully) trying to articulate earlier, was that in doing that, Dan destroyed the community that I'd felt part of, small as it was. And not just by committing suicide--I watched over the years as his confrontational nature pushed mutual friends away, one at time, so that by the end of his life, I don't think there were more than a couple of people we knew in common who were still talking with him. But, if this makes sense, this feeling I have that he not only pushed away people while he was alive, but in how he died. I just feel bad to think about that kind of thing being repeated. An example of the limits of confrontation--albeit an anecdotal example--is what happened after my first, very confrontational post in response to Joel's. It sent him running. Dan was constantly confrontational with people on the street, and often--if you can believe it--in "poetic" ways. But I think, as I watched that, I just saw the same result over and over--it just seemed to send people running away. Including, unfortunately, many of his friends, people who otherwise very much were sympatico with his politics and, to more or less extent, his aesthetic vision. As I said backchannel to Joel, there really is much generative about his work, stuff I've learned from, largely the extent to which he seemed to be pushing borders, getting outside of them, the borders of, let's say, a "written art." Also, cultural borders--Dan was an anthopology student--and though this aspect of his interest and study didn't quite permeate his work in the way it does in, say, Ammiel Alcalay's Cairo Notebooks or From the Warring Factions (Dan never left the U.S.), it was there to some degree, and I definitely picked up on that. It's that aspect that most intrigues me, feels most generative, when I think about "anti-war" poetry. There's a funny passage in Anne Tardos's new book, The Dik-dik's Solitude. She's taken these photographs of her and Jackson Mac Low sitting at a table in front of microphones, and added in cartoon balloons her own dialog. One one page we get: ANNE: Ever notice how people dislike didactic pieces? JACKSON: They should be grateful for the information they receive. ANNE: Yeah, right. I thought that was kind of funny, because of course "yeah, right" could simply be an acknowledgment, but it's also a colloquial way of saying "I don't think so." So it's this funny tension there between the two. But, ultimately, I agree with what Anne has Jackson saying up there ... but only in cases where didactic pieces truly *give* one information. Information on didn't already have. Which, again, seems maybe a limit in some anti-war poetry, not all of it, and maybe not the majority of it. But, why I was hoping, earlier, for "anti-war" poetry that does incorporate something besides what we already know this culture, this country (its "leaders"), to be. Anyway--I've talked too much about this, so I'll shut up now. But I did want to say that I appreciated talking with Joel a little backchannel, and getting input from others (I don't know that they necessarily want to be named, so I'll leave that to them, if it matters), to help clarify my own thoughts about this. Thanks. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:38:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: Banned in the U.S., but coming soon to a foreign capital near you Comments: To: ron.silliman@gte.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ron, what's the reference to Creeeley' msking sense? Not that I doubt it, but havent seeen a post by him on this Buffalo List. David -----Original Message----- From: Ron To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Saturday, December 07, 2002 4:51 AM Subject: Banned in the U.S., but coming soon to a foreign capital near you >In the 1950s, the CIA funded several programs intended to carry the work >of the abstract expressionist painters overseas & even funded a couple >of little magazines. While the couple of books written about 15 years >ago attempted to turn this into a "abstract expressionism was a CIA >plot," a rather loopy leap of logic, it unquestionably helped spread the >word of their painting especially to Europe ("overseas" was a smaller >place in 1950 in the U.S. imagination). This new program sounds like an >exact attempt to do the same thing. > >It's good to see Creeley making sense amidst it all, > >Ron > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >December 7, 2002 >U.S. Writers Do Cultural Battle Around the Globe >By MICHAEL Z. WISE > >NY Times > >The Bush administration has recruited prominent American writers to >contribute to a State Department anthology and give readings around the >globe in a campaign started after 9/11 to use culture to further >American diplomatic interests. > >The participants include four Pulitzer Prize winners, Michael Chabon, >Robert Olen Butler, David Herbert Donald and Richard Ford; the American >poet laureate, Billy Collins; two Arab-Americans, Naomi Shihab Nye and >Elmaz Abinader; and Robert Pinsky, Charles Johnson, Bharati Mukherjee >and Sven Birkerts. They were all asked to write about what it means to >be an American writer. > >Although the State Department plans to distribute the 60-page booklet of >15 essays free at American embassies worldwide in the next few weeks, >one country has already banned the anthology: the United States. The >Smith-Mundt Act of 1948, renewed when the United States Information >Agency became part of the State Department three years ago, bars the >domestic dissemination of official American information aimed at foreign >audiences. > >"There were Congressional fears of the government propagandizing the >American people," said George Clack, the State Department editor who >produced the anthology. The essays can, however, be read on a government >Web site intended for foreigners >(usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/writers). "We do not provide that >address to U.S. citizens," Mr. Clack said, adding, "Technology has made >a law obsolete, but the law lives on." > >Despite the domestic blackout, the participants are focused on the >potential abroad. "There is the perception abroad that Americans feel >culturally superior and are intellectually indifferent," said Mr. Ford, >who won the Pulitzer in 1996 for his novel "Independence Day." "Those >stereotypes need to be burst." He added that he was eager to go to >Islamic nations to help "humanize America" and present a more diverse >picture of public opinion than is conveyed by the Bush administration. >"With a government like the one we have, when not even 50 percent of >Americans voted for the president, the diversity of opinion is not >represented," he said. > >Stuart Holliday, a former White House aide to President Bush who is >overseeing the anthology publication as coordinator of the State >Department's Office of International Information Programs, said: "We're >shining a spotlight on those aspects of our culture that tell the >American story. The volume of material is there. The question is how can >it be augmented to give a clearer picture of who we are." > >Before the cold war ended, the United States often sent orchestras, >dance troupes and other artists abroad to infiltrate Communist societies >culturally. Writers like John Updike, Kurt Vonnegut, Edward Albee and E. >L. Doctorow gave government-sponsored readings in Eastern Europe that >used literature on behalf of American interests. > >"People lined up for blocks," recalled William H. Luers, a former >American ambassador to Czechoslovakia and later president of the >Metropolitan Museum of Art, speaking of Mr. Updike's appearance at the >embassy in Prague in the mid-1980's. > >But the United States Information Agency, which ran that campaign, was >folded into the State Department in 1999, and over the last 10 years >such programs have been severely reduced. > >Since 9/11, though, the State Department has increased its efforts to >communicate American values to overseas audiences. Mr. Holliday >described the anthology, for example, as complementing efforts by >Charlotte Beers, a former Madison Avenue advertising executive who is >now under secretary of state for public diplomacy, to sell the United >States to often hostile Muslim populations. > >Her campaign includes "Next Chapter," a television show broadcast by the >Voice of America in Iran, a worldwide traveling exhibition of >photographs of the ravaged World Trade Center site by Joel Meyerowitz, >the distribution of videos spotlighting tolerance for American Muslims >and a pamphlet showing Muslims as part of mainstream American life. > >Christopher Ross, the State Department's special coordinator for public >diplomacy, has advocated reviving official cultural programs abroad as a >"cost-effective investment to ensure U.S. national security" and a way >to combat "the skewed, negative and unrepresentative" image of America >that he says most people of the world absorb through mass culture and >communications. Yet even some of the authors expressed mixed feelings >about just how effective such cultural exposure would ultimately prove. > >In an interview, Billy Collins quoted Auden's famous line that "poetry >makes nothing happen," but Mr. Collins tempered that comment by adding: >"I think there are some cases where it can. I don't think a group of >American writers is going to bring peace to the Middle East, but it puts >something in the media that is a counterbalance to the growling and >hostilities that fill the pages. It would have a positive and softening >influence on things." And while Mr. Collins said he has agreed to join a >tour abroad, he added, "It's not a particularly good time for unarmed >American poets to be wandering around Jordan and Syria." > >Ms. Abinader was more optimistic about the potential for the literary >initiative to change foreign perceptions. "I don't think I'm going to >grab a terrorist by the lapels and say, `There's a better way of doing >things,' " she said. "But what you can do is inspire a different kind of >power. That's the power of the word." > >Some of the anthology's authors, paid $2,499 by the government, praise >the freedoms they enjoy in the United States, but the collection by no >means presents an uncritical picture of the United States. Julia >Alvarez, a novelist and poet who moved from the Dominican Republic when >she was young, writes that America is not "free of problems or >inequalities or even hypocrisies." Robert Olen Butler says that the >United States, though `built on the preservation of the rights of >minorities, has sometimes been slow to apply those rights fully." >Michael Chabon tells of crime and racial unrest in his hometown, >Columbia, Md. > >The poet Robert Creeley said that although the Sept. 11 attacks led to >an outpouring of poetry to express sorrow, this "passed quickly as the >country regained its equilibrium, turned to the conduct of an aggressive >war and, one has to recognize, went back to making money." > >Ms. Abinader, the daughter of Lebanese immigrants to Pennsylvania, >recalls being subjected to racist remarks by her classmates because of >her dark complexion. Later in her academic career, she says, "feelings >toward Arabs became more negative and sometimes bordered on distrust, >even from my own colleagues." > >The other Arab-American in the volume, Naomi Shihab Nye, was asked to >contribute after the State Department took note of an open letter she >wrote "to any would-be terrorists" the week after Sept. 11. "I beg you, >as your distant Arab cousin, as your American neighbor, listen to me," >she wrote in the letter distributed on the Internet and printed in >several Arabic-language newspapers. "Our hearts are broken, as yours may >also feel broken in some ways we can't understand unless you tell us in >words. Killing people won't tell us. We can't read that message. Find >another way to live. Don't expect others to be like you." > >Some 31,000 English-language copies of the new anthology will be >available abroad. Editions in Arabic, French, Spanish and Russian are >also being prepared. Additional translations into two dozen other >languages are expected, with a total of about 100,000 copies likely to >be distributed in the next few years. Mr. Holliday said he hoped that >the essays would also be reprinted in foreign newspapers and that >students abroad would use the texts as course material and to learn >English. > >All but one of the articles appear for the first time in the volume; the >essay by Mr. Chabon is a reprint. > >Mr. Luers applauded the anthology but urged a more coordinated and >intensive program of cultural diplomacy. "We have to find ways to convey >not just propaganda but the richness of this country's culture," he >said. "It's pathetic that we don't make an effort. Very educated people >abroad don't realize the depths of our culture behind McDonald's and the >violent movies." > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:25:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: RIP: Philip Berrigan (1923-2002) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit from Reuters-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- December 7, 2002 U.S. Anti - War Activist Berrigan Dies at 79 By REUTERS Filed at 10:33 a.m. ET BALTIMORE (Reuters) - Philip Berrigan, a former priest who was at the forefront of the American anti-war movement for the past four decades, died late Friday, the Baltimore Sun reported. He was 79. Berrigan, died of liver and kidney cancer at Jonah House, a communal living facility for war resisters in the Baltimore suburb of Catonsville, the newspaper reported on its Web site on Saturday. The former Roman Catholic priest who was ordained in 1955, gained national prominence when he led a group of Vietnam War protesters who become known as the Catonsville Nine, in staging one of the most dramatic protests of the 1960s. The group, which included his brother Daniel, a Jesuit priest, doused homemade napalm on a small bonfire of draft records in a Catonsville, Maryland, parking lot and ignited a generation of anti-war dissent. More recently he helped found the Plowshares movement, whose members have attacked federal military property in anti-war and anti-nuclear protests and were then often imprisoned. In a final statement released by his family, he said, ``I die with the conviction, held since 1968 and Catonsville, that nuclear weapons are the scourge of the earth; to mine for them, manufacture them, deploy them, use them, is a curse against God, the human family, and the earth itself.'' Berrigan persistently and publicly criticized the Vietnam War and U.S. foreign and domestic policy and his defiant protests led him to serve some 11 years in jail and prison. Howard Zinn, professor emeritus at Boston University who maintained a friendship with Berrigan through the years because they had similar views, called him ``one of the great Americans of our time,'' the Baltimore Sun said. ``He went to prison again and again and again for his beliefs,'' said Zinn. Berrigan saw his protests as ``prophetic acts'' based on the Biblical injunction to beat swords into plowshares. In his most recent clash in December 1999, Berrigan and others banged on A-10 Warthog warplanes in an anti-war protest at an Air National Guard base. He was convicted of malicious destruction of property and sentenced to 30 months. He was released on Dec. 14 last year. His first arrest came in the early 1960's during a civil rights protest in Selma, Alabama. Philip Francis Berrigan was born Oct. 5, 1923, in Two Harbors, Minnesota. Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:52:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: Banned in the U.S., but coming soon to a foreign capital near you MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David, The Creeley quote was near the bootom of the article >The poet Robert Creeley said that although the Sept. 11 attacks led to >an outpouring of poetry to express sorrow, this "passed quickly as the >country regained its equilibrium, turned to the conduct of an aggressive >war and, one has to recognize, went back to making money." Best, Geoffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "dcmb" To: Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 1:38 PM Subject: Re: Banned in the U.S., but coming soon to a foreign capital near you Ron, what's the reference to Creeeley' msking sense? Not that I doubt it, but havent seeen a post by him on this Buffalo List. David ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 16:39:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "R. Drake" Subject: Re: Banned in the U.S., but coming soon to a foreign capital near you In-Reply-To: <003601c29e1f$e1de1d00$8396ccd1@CeceliaBelle> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Creeley is on of the contributors to the State Department publication: http://www.usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/writers/creeley.htm my impression (from a quick read) was that the licks he did get in were more co-opted by the context, then succeeding in raising a real banner of sense. but (to echo gary sullivan in another thread) anything more challenging praps would have been confrontational to the point of self-defeating... luigi on 12/7/02 1:38 PM, dcmb at dcmb@SONIC.NET wrote: > Ron, what's the reference to Creeeley' msking sense? Not that I doubt it, > but havent seeen a post by him on this Buffalo List. David > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Saturday, December 07, 2002 4:51 AM > Subject: Banned in the U.S., but coming soon to a foreign capital near you > > >> In the 1950s, the CIA funded several programs intended to carry the work >> of the abstract expressionist painters overseas & even funded a couple >> of little magazines. While the couple of books written about 15 years >> ago attempted to turn this into a "abstract expressionism was a CIA >> plot," a rather loopy leap of logic, it unquestionably helped spread the >> word of their painting especially to Europe ("overseas" was a smaller >> place in 1950 in the U.S. imagination). This new program sounds like an >> exact attempt to do the same thing. >> >> It's good to see Creeley making sense amidst it all, >> >> Ron >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> December 7, 2002 >> U.S. Writers Do Cultural Battle Around the Globe >> By MICHAEL Z. WISE >> >> NY Times >> >> The Bush administration has recruited prominent American writers to >> contribute to a State Department anthology and give readings around the >> globe in a campaign started after 9/11 to use culture to further >> American diplomatic interests. >> >> The participants include four Pulitzer Prize winners, Michael Chabon, >> Robert Olen Butler, David Herbert Donald and Richard Ford; the American >> poet laureate, Billy Collins; two Arab-Americans, Naomi Shihab Nye and >> Elmaz Abinader; and Robert Pinsky, Charles Johnson, Bharati Mukherjee >> and Sven Birkerts. They were all asked to write about what it means to >> be an American writer. >> >> Although the State Department plans to distribute the 60-page booklet of >> 15 essays free at American embassies worldwide in the next few weeks, >> one country has already banned the anthology: the United States. The >> Smith-Mundt Act of 1948, renewed when the United States Information >> Agency became part of the State Department three years ago, bars the >> domestic dissemination of official American information aimed at foreign >> audiences. >> >> "There were Congressional fears of the government propagandizing the >> American people," said George Clack, the State Department editor who >> produced the anthology. The essays can, however, be read on a government >> Web site intended for foreigners >> (usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/writers). "We do not provide that >> address to U.S. citizens," Mr. Clack said, adding, "Technology has made >> a law obsolete, but the law lives on." >> >> Despite the domestic blackout, the participants are focused on the >> potential abroad. "There is the perception abroad that Americans feel >> culturally superior and are intellectually indifferent," said Mr. Ford, >> who won the Pulitzer in 1996 for his novel "Independence Day." "Those >> stereotypes need to be burst." He added that he was eager to go to >> Islamic nations to help "humanize America" and present a more diverse >> picture of public opinion than is conveyed by the Bush administration. >> "With a government like the one we have, when not even 50 percent of >> Americans voted for the president, the diversity of opinion is not >> represented," he said. >> >> Stuart Holliday, a former White House aide to President Bush who is >> overseeing the anthology publication as coordinator of the State >> Department's Office of International Information Programs, said: "We're >> shining a spotlight on those aspects of our culture that tell the >> American story. The volume of material is there. The question is how can >> it be augmented to give a clearer picture of who we are." >> >> Before the cold war ended, the United States often sent orchestras, >> dance troupes and other artists abroad to infiltrate Communist societies >> culturally. Writers like John Updike, Kurt Vonnegut, Edward Albee and E. >> L. Doctorow gave government-sponsored readings in Eastern Europe that >> used literature on behalf of American interests. >> >> "People lined up for blocks," recalled William H. Luers, a former >> American ambassador to Czechoslovakia and later president of the >> Metropolitan Museum of Art, speaking of Mr. Updike's appearance at the >> embassy in Prague in the mid-1980's. >> >> But the United States Information Agency, which ran that campaign, was >> folded into the State Department in 1999, and over the last 10 years >> such programs have been severely reduced. >> >> Since 9/11, though, the State Department has increased its efforts to >> communicate American values to overseas audiences. Mr. Holliday >> described the anthology, for example, as complementing efforts by >> Charlotte Beers, a former Madison Avenue advertising executive who is >> now under secretary of state for public diplomacy, to sell the United >> States to often hostile Muslim populations. >> >> Her campaign includes "Next Chapter," a television show broadcast by the >> Voice of America in Iran, a worldwide traveling exhibition of >> photographs of the ravaged World Trade Center site by Joel Meyerowitz, >> the distribution of videos spotlighting tolerance for American Muslims >> and a pamphlet showing Muslims as part of mainstream American life. >> >> Christopher Ross, the State Department's special coordinator for public >> diplomacy, has advocated reviving official cultural programs abroad as a >> "cost-effective investment to ensure U.S. national security" and a way >> to combat "the skewed, negative and unrepresentative" image of America >> that he says most people of the world absorb through mass culture and >> communications. Yet even some of the authors expressed mixed feelings >> about just how effective such cultural exposure would ultimately prove. >> >> In an interview, Billy Collins quoted Auden's famous line that "poetry >> makes nothing happen," but Mr. Collins tempered that comment by adding: >> "I think there are some cases where it can. I don't think a group of >> American writers is going to bring peace to the Middle East, but it puts >> something in the media that is a counterbalance to the growling and >> hostilities that fill the pages. It would have a positive and softening >> influence on things." And while Mr. Collins said he has agreed to join a >> tour abroad, he added, "It's not a particularly good time for unarmed >> American poets to be wandering around Jordan and Syria." >> >> Ms. Abinader was more optimistic about the potential for the literary >> initiative to change foreign perceptions. "I don't think I'm going to >> grab a terrorist by the lapels and say, `There's a better way of doing >> things,' " she said. "But what you can do is inspire a different kind of >> power. That's the power of the word." >> >> Some of the anthology's authors, paid $2,499 by the government, praise >> the freedoms they enjoy in the United States, but the collection by no >> means presents an uncritical picture of the United States. Julia >> Alvarez, a novelist and poet who moved from the Dominican Republic when >> she was young, writes that America is not "free of problems or >> inequalities or even hypocrisies." Robert Olen Butler says that the >> United States, though `built on the preservation of the rights of >> minorities, has sometimes been slow to apply those rights fully." >> Michael Chabon tells of crime and racial unrest in his hometown, >> Columbia, Md. >> >> The poet Robert Creeley said that although the Sept. 11 attacks led to >> an outpouring of poetry to express sorrow, this "passed quickly as the >> country regained its equilibrium, turned to the conduct of an aggressive >> war and, one has to recognize, went back to making money." >> >> Ms. Abinader, the daughter of Lebanese immigrants to Pennsylvania, >> recalls being subjected to racist remarks by her classmates because of >> her dark complexion. Later in her academic career, she says, "feelings >> toward Arabs became more negative and sometimes bordered on distrust, >> even from my own colleagues." >> >> The other Arab-American in the volume, Naomi Shihab Nye, was asked to >> contribute after the State Department took note of an open letter she >> wrote "to any would-be terrorists" the week after Sept. 11. "I beg you, >> as your distant Arab cousin, as your American neighbor, listen to me," >> she wrote in the letter distributed on the Internet and printed in >> several Arabic-language newspapers. "Our hearts are broken, as yours may >> also feel broken in some ways we can't understand unless you tell us in >> words. Killing people won't tell us. We can't read that message. Find >> another way to live. Don't expect others to be like you." >> >> Some 31,000 English-language copies of the new anthology will be >> available abroad. Editions in Arabic, French, Spanish and Russian are >> also being prepared. Additional translations into two dozen other >> languages are expected, with a total of about 100,000 copies likely to >> be distributed in the next few years. Mr. Holliday said he hoped that >> the essays would also be reprinted in foreign newspapers and that >> students abroad would use the texts as course material and to learn >> English. >> >> All but one of the articles appear for the first time in the volume; the >> essay by Mr. Chabon is a reprint. >> >> Mr. Luers applauded the anthology but urged a more coordinated and >> intensive program of cultural diplomacy. "We have to find ways to convey >> not just propaganda but the richness of this country's culture," he >> said. "It's pathetic that we don't make an effort. Very educated people >> abroad don't realize the depths of our culture behind McDonald's and the >> violent movies." >> > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:56:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Rathmann Subject: Re: Banned in the U.S. / political poetry In-Reply-To: <004301c29e32$82586620$605e3318@LINKAGE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Actually, Creeley contributes an essay to this publication. I also recommend Robert Pinsky's essay, especially to those who have not yet encountered his work: it is a fine introduction to his sensibility and poetics. http://164.109.48.86/products/pubs/writers/pinsky.htm What Pinsky refers to as the "provincialism of time" -- i.e., "living without the resonance of history, inhabiting the present with a childlike complacency" -- is something I think I see in a lot of the talk about political art and writing. Perhaps engaged writers -- and would-be avant-gardists -- must necessarily "inhabit the present" because their goals are relatively short-term: a change of direction in art or politics to be accomplished in this lifetime. But what about political writing that tries to serve the interests of those who will be alive 500 years from now? I think one form of complacency (and irresponsiblity, really) is an unwillingness to imagine the world as it will be decades after one's death. I suspect that the political artists who really matter -- Shakespeare, for example -- are those who can preserve that long-term awareness. For example, would it be possible to for poets to get started now on the project -- to be realized, let us say, in A.D. 2500 -- of laying the cultural foundations for a peaceful one-world system? More immediately: Why doesn't one of the editors on the list put together a special issue on new political writing? Jeffrey? Publication could coincide with the beginning of hostilities in the Gulf... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:10:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Maya Lin Comments: To: Mairead Byrne In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thank you for the follow-up, Mairead. I will look at the Ubu sight. I (maybe obviously) like interpreting the Memorial as a poem. It is an interesting question as how Maya Lin is framed and/or identified. Is she sculptor, poet or a conceptual artist who works with a variety of inputs (land, language, sculptural materials) to create a work of art that amalgamates each of these inputs into a whole - that may be identified just as much as a work of language (with elements that correspond to the practice of poetry, the art of making books and reading) as well as a sculptural work whose materials locate in a landscape that impact its "reading" in ways that violate & liberate - or certainly enhance - the conventions of reading a book. Careers - it seems - are sustained by unilateral definitions (poet, painter, etc.). Success in poetry, as we know, rarely transforms directly to many dollars - as say different to success in other media. Bill Viola - clearly a conceptual thinker, among others, has made Multi-media Artist - it seems to me - an acceptable "career" definition Jenny Holzer - tho she is clearly a writer - is not going to call herself one. So I suspect Maya Lin - the sculptor - knows full well the consequences of altering her professional identity to prioritize the ways in which writing is implicit to her work. I mean I don't see her ever starting to say that she's a poet who works with sculptural materials (which is what I think you are suggesting) - which makes it hard for the Memorial - in effect - to be re-defined and revered as a work with poetry at its root - and that the work (in addition to all of its other aspects) should also be seen in the light of this country's literature and interpreted as one of it's major - if not most major - elegies. Lots of luck with changing/broadening literary genre critical canons as well! Stephen Vincent on 12/7/02 7:03 AM, Mairead Byrne at mcbyrne@RISD.EDU wrote: > Maya Lin's brother is the poet Tan Lin, with whom she has collaborated > on one major piece since the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. In Boundaries, > she describes the influence on her aesthetic of her home environment > growing up. Her father was a ceramicist and professor of art and every > element of design in the home was consciously informed, as she describes > it. The Vietnam Veterans who sponsored the contest which Maya Lin won > stipulated that all the names of the missing and killed in action be > used. That was the essential design problem she worked with, in the > context of the given location in D.C. Her work after the Vietnam > Veterans Memorial is also heavily informed by words, names, dates: not > just elements of text but very loaded and significant textual detail. > One of the most interesting things about "Boundaries," for me, is the > extent to which she initiates ideas through writing. In fact, the book > begins with a sentence saying that the creative process starts with > writing. > The statement which accompanied her drawings for the Vietnam Veterans > Memorial was crucial to the submission: in fact, the drawings, which > were extremely minimalist, were supplementary to the statement in a > sense. Strangely, they supplied the emotional gestalt of the design and > the statement supplied the nitty-gritty, if there can be said to be any > nitty-gritty with Lin (I think there can). But back to your question > about concrete poetry. On the ubu site, which is fantastic, Tan Lin is > listed, but not Maya Lin. I suppose the distinction might be: does an > artist present herself or himself as a poet, or not? (Or is she or he > dead enough to be re-assigned by someone else). Given the major > difference that Maya Lin is working in a public arena, and an > artist/poet such as Ian Hamilton Finlay is working in a private context, > I think the major distinction is in self-presentation. To consider Maya > Lin as a poet, working very significantly in the public arena, is > groundbreakingly refreshing (for poetry). > Mairead > >>>> steph484@PACBELL.NET 12/06/02 20:38 PM >>> > Thank you, Mairead. I have never gotten Maya Lin's book and appreciate > the > extensive quote. In addition to her whole research into the historic > architecture of mausoleums - it is interesting (to me) as she describes > it > to look at the v-shape of the monument as an open book shape on edge, > simultaneously creating the impression of emerging and descending into > the > earth and compelling the option to read work indeed as a "book of the > dead." > But its also a sculptural work that emerged in context (tho somewhat > later) with the major land art and minimalist driven works of Walter De > Maria, Robert Smithson and Heizer - where the focus on the intrinsic > material (as different from a rhetorical signature or shape) is key. > From the point of view of text - though this may be off the mark - I > wonder if Lin was aware of the works of concrete poets, at least the > work > that focuses on liberating the word by minimizing its syntactical > attachments - similar as it is to the singularity of her use of the > names > that can only be fully brought to life by the eye(s) and historical > knowledge(s) of the beholder(s). > Does her book say who she was reading? > > Stephen V > > on 12/6/02 11:22 AM, Mairead Byrne at mcbyrne@RISD.EDU wrote: > >> Dear Stephen and all, >> >> You may be interested in what Maya Lin wrote about the Vietnam > Veterans >> Memorial in Boundaries, a book which emphasizes the creative role of >> writing in her work, and which also is a celebration of hybridity (in >> her case, art and architecture): >> >> "The memorial is analogous to a book in many ways. Note that on the >> right-hand panels the pages are set ragged right and on the left they >> are set ragged left, creating a spine at the apex as in a book. > Another >> issue was scale; the text type is the smallest that we had come > across, >> less than half an inch, which is unheard of in monument type sizing. >> What it does is create a very intimate reading in a very public space, >> the difference in intimacy between reading a billboard and reading a >> book. >> >> The only other issue was the polished black granite and how it should > be >> detailed, over which I remember having a few arguments with the >> architects of record. The architects could not understand my choice > of >> a reflective, highly polished black granite. One of them felt I was >> making a mistake and the polished surface would be "too *feminine*" >> Also puzzling to them was my choice of detailing the monument as a > thin >> veneer with barely any thickness at its top edge. They wanted to make >> the monument's walls read as a massive, thick stone wall, which was > not >> my intention at all. I always saw the wall as pure surface, an >> interface bewteen light and dark, where I cut the earth and polished > its >> open edge. The wall dematerializes as a form and allows the names to >> become the object, a pure and reflective surface that would allow >> visitors the chance to see themselves with the names. I do not think > I >> thought of the color black as a color, more as the idea of a dark > mirror >> into a shadowed mirrored image of the space, a space we cannot enter > and >> from which the names separate us, an interface between the world of > the >> living and the world of the dead. >> >> One aspect that made the project unusual was its politicized building >> process. For instance, the granite could not come from Canada or >> Sweden. Though those countries had beautiful black granites, draft >> evaders went to both countries, so the veterans felt that we could not >> consider their granites as options. (The stone finally selected came >> from India). The actual building process went smoothly for the most >> part, and the memorial was built very close to my original intentions. >> >> As far as all of the controversy, I really never wanted to go into it >> too much. The memorial's starkness, it's being below grade, being >> black, and how much my age, gender, and race played a part in the >> controversy, we'll never quite know. I think it is actually a miracle >> that the piece ever got built. From the beginning I often wondered, > if >> it had not been an anonymous entry 1026 but rather an entry by Maya > Lin, >> would I have been selected? >> >> from Boundaries (Simon & Schuster 2000), 4:15-16. >> >>>>> steph484@PACBELL.NET 12/06/02 12:03 PM >>> >> >> Collectively speaking for this country, the >> Mia Lin's (Sp) Washington Memorial is probably the greatest anti-war >> poem >> (quo sculpture) that we have of any war - but again that - even tho >> strongly >> opposed by Reagan and the Right - was after the fact. >> But I remain uncomfortable by what seems your sense of aesthetic >> stricture >> and what that may be about. >> >> Stephen V ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 17:25:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: Banned in the U.S. / political poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Andrew, I like your ideas with this essay. I finished an epic poem of the DC Comic hero Superman in an attempt to achieve a lasting sense of this time. If you would like I can email you a copy :-) Best, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k2 __o _`\<,_ (*) / (*) Geoffrey Gatza Automation Corp http://BlazeVOX.da.ru http://gatza.da.ru ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Rathmann" To: Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 4:56 PM Subject: Re: Banned in the U.S. / political poetry > Actually, Creeley contributes an essay to this publication. I also recommend Robert Pinsky's essay, especially to those who have not yet encountered his work: it is a fine introduction to his sensibility and poetics. > > http://164.109.48.86/products/pubs/writers/pinsky.htm > > What Pinsky refers to as the "provincialism of time" -- i.e., "living without the resonance of history, inhabiting the present with a childlike complacency" -- is something I think I see in a lot of the talk about political art and writing. > > Perhaps engaged writers -- and would-be avant-gardists -- must necessarily "inhabit the present" because their goals are relatively short-term: a change of direction in art or politics to be accomplished in this lifetime. > > But what about political writing that tries to serve the interests of those who will be alive 500 years from now? I think one form of complacency (and irresponsiblity, really) is an unwillingness to imagine the world as it will be decades after one's death. I suspect that the political artists who really matter -- Shakespeare, for example -- are those who can preserve that long-term awareness. > > For example, would it be possible to for poets to get started now on the project -- to be realized, let us say, in A.D. 2500 -- of laying the cultural foundations for a peaceful one-world system? > > More immediately: Why doesn't one of the editors on the list put together a special issue on new political writing? Jeffrey? Publication could coincide with the beginning of hostilities in the Gulf... > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 17:32:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pmetres Subject: antiwar poetry continued MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Jeffrey, et. al., Just a couple comments on Jeffrey Jullich=92s thoughtful consideration of the problems of =93antiwar poetry.=94 Altieri=92s notion=97and indeed, most poetry critics=92 doxa=97that Vietnam War antiwar poems =93fail,=94 begs the question regarding their failure. What is an antiwar poem trying to do? For me, poets like Denise Levertov, Robert Lowell, regardless of their =93failures=94=97and indeed, many of Levertov=92s antiwar poems fail even in their rhetorical task of convincing others to oppose war=97provided with me, a young poet, with models of how poets can engage in the construction of a counternarrative of the war. I learned more about the antiwar movement in Berkeley from Levertov=92s =93Notebook=94 than I did from just about any other source, including the useful documentary, =93Berkeley in the Sixties.=94 Levertov, following the lead of Pound, Rukeyser, Williams, and others, included such amusing found texts as a flyer from the movement, which suggested that people fly kites at demonstrations=97for aesthetic and practical reasons=97to keep the helicopters away. Now, I am not going to lie in the buffalo poetics listserv road and say I=92ll die for that poem, but one of the things, it seems to me, that folks like Levertov did well, was provide a lyric testimony and narrative of war resistance. Other poets, equally square in terms of their aesthetics, like William Stafford, have written a corpus of poems working on a poetics of pacifism. Stafford and Mac Low, for me, represent the polar possibilities of working out what anarcho-pacifism might look like in poetry. So, I understand Watten=92s distrust of Levertov=92s rhetorical gestures, and Altieri=92s dislike of much antiwar poetry=97but wouldn=92t we say the same thing about any group of poems? Phil Metres **** Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 21:59:40 -0800 From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: anti-war poetry reading I hope some of these Buffalo anti-war poetry readers/explorers report back on the event. I'm very curious: Tim's question ("What might anti-war literature look like today, in a time quite different than the 60s/70s, the period we reflexively think of when discussing an anti-war movement. How has theory/poetics changed how we approach this subject? What's at stake here?") couldn't be more timely to our agreed purpose of poetics nor, to me, more bewildering. I wanted to follow up on Joe Safdie's recent post about the same problem ("imaginative art that can incorporate some response to -- and even provide a chronicle of -- this recent chain of terrifying events. I feel that the poets alive today will eventually be seen as among the most shameful practitioners of the art if we don't produce such work"; see http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=3Dind0211&L=3Dpoetics&P=3DR50484&I=3D-3&m=3D57246), but it was a topic no one pursued. I tracked down Barrett Watten's ~Critical Inquiry~ essay, "The Turn toward Language in the 60s," and Andrea Brady's less-harsh-on-Language-Poetry-than-originally-reported "Grief" essay in ~Radical Philosophy,~ hoping for some guiding light,--- but was left just as mystified (W.S. Merwin's opacity, a precursor to Language Poetry??) and stymied by the trail of cookie crumbs leading further into a dark forest with the Charles Altieri reference that only elsewhere would prove why Denise Levertov's political transparency had become laughable and unsupportable. Recently, I went through a series of back-channels with someone who wrote me exhorting that any future issues of the journal that I edited, LOGOPOEIA ( http://www.logopoeialogopoeia.da.ru/ ), dedicate it more to a recommitment to political poetry, a "dare" I still find myself baffled over, ---as no one in fact seems to be ~writing~ that kind of poetry, at least in explicit/content-based terms. ...Or, as Altieri may have said, that it leads almost immediately into "bad" poetry. Joe wrote that "abstract and apolitical lyrics flood this listserv", and, among other question marks, I was left wondering--- whether by "abstract" what he wasn't rather hitting upon might be that Pater's dictum of "all arts aspire to the condition of music" has in fact been ~reached~ in "our style" of poetry; and if that plateau, which he sees as "abstract," doesn't engender brand new problems as far as political referentialism--- much like a composer of instrumental music asking how new music could be political or anti-war. (Are those shadows of lumbering giants that I hear Prokofiev orchestrating into the symphonies of his that I've been listening to this week abstract critiques of Stalinism? Isn't the politics of monarchy ~audible~ in the abstract music that the Esterhazys commissioned? ...And likewise an anti-anti-semitism / anti-eugenic-exclusivism equally materialized in the tonal all-inclusiveness of Second Vienna School twelve-tonality, etc., etc., etc.?) I wonder too, unlike the allegedly risible Levertov poem that reported about her actual protesters' park occupation experience, whether the first kind of new anti-war or political poetry that facilely comes to mind wouldn't in fact be poetry about ~media representations~ of the political (newspapers/television), and hence actually a boojum of ---excuse me--- Baudrillard's hyperreal, rather than realpolitik. I.e., is it political to say "This is what I read in the newspaper"? Etc. Barrett Watten's recent post about Tanya and the Simbionese Liberation Army as examples of "radical irrationalism" was tantalizing,--- but it left the reader desperately in need of elaboration: When Watten says "I would propose that current social discourses of terrorism derive from such events", was he proposing it ~proscriptively,~ in the sense that what the world (and poetry) needs now is a ~return~ to Simbionese-style radical irrationalism, sweet radical irrationalism, hence to build a political poetry upon its own comedic ungroundedness,--- or did he mean that recuperation into state-vs.-revolutionary irrationalism became the subsequent discursive ~imprisonment~ that ~prevents~ political poetry? I also tried reading Daniel Davidson's 2002 Krupskaya book, ~Culture,~ because Ben Friedlander and Gary Sullivan blurb it as being quintessentially political (SPD catalog: "One question was foremost in his mind: just how far can experimental be construed as direct political action?"; B.F.: "Politics for Dan Davidson was a site-specific performance art"),--- but, for me, the book may have crossed over that "just how far" line and ~no longer~ be so construable, as I was at a near-total loss to recognize its hermetic politicality. The recurrent craving that these calls to a neo-political poetry seem to be expressing is for a poetry other than the formalism-as-politics that Language Poetry so convincingly theorized. So, I find myself thrown back upon the politicality of minor canonical examples, like the proto-~Paradise~ neo-Latin "In Quintum Novembris" that the 17-year old John Milton wrote in reaction to Guy Fawkes' ("terrorist") gunpowder plot to explode Parliament House,--- which enacts its poetic politicism entirely through an imagination of The Beyond: "You have it in your power to scatter their dismembered bodies through the air, to burn them to cinders, by exploding nitrous powder under the halls where they will assemble" ("Atque dare in cineres, nitrati pulveris igne / Aedibus iniecto, qua convenere, sub imis": trans. [?] Merritt Y. Hughes, ~John Milton: Complete Poems and Major Prose,~ p. 18). I might mention the recent (failed?) attempt of the e-journal http://www.newmediapoets.com/nmp.html, which entered into its dedication to drumming up a new political poetry with even a ~manifesto~ in tow, against the anachronistic limbo of most current poetry: "We are a movement of engagement. Always engaged, we articulate our participation in a culture, in an economy, in a particular country, now ... We see beauty in nouns and names, proper and otherwise: Tiger Woods ... We know these names to be within the perimeters of the poetic...", however collecting somewhat oblique work, itself. (I should add, I genuinely do believe that the diptych of poems Garrett Kalleberg published in LOGOPOEIA were some of the first, best, "post-9/11" poetry I've read: "I take a draw on a cigarette / which pulls a young Pakistani man=92s / hand holding an oiled cloth down the length / of the barrel of a gun...".) Has anyone read the O Books journal Enough that Leslie Scalapino edited, which also addressed "anti-war poetry" (SPD: "based on the theme 'Seeing is a form of change,' this issue investigates warfare and the World Trade Center bombing", with poetry by our A-List: McClure, Notley, Bernstein, Davies, A. Berrigan, Hofer, Joris, Darragh/Inman, Osman, etc., etc.,...)? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:43:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nate Dorward Subject: cite query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just copyediting a MS here for the Raworth issue by David Ball. At one point he quotes a phrase--"a scrap of vanishing fragmented reality"--& says it's a line of Ginsberg's; in a footnote he says he can't trace the line. Any ideas if this is indeed Ginsberg? Someone else? David's own phrase? It doesn't matter especially for the paper where the phrase is from, but "credit where credit is due" & all that.... all best --N Nate Dorward 109 Hounslow Ave, Willowdale, ON, M2N 2B1, Canada email: ndorward@sprint.ca web: http://pages.sprint.ca/ndorward/files/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 13:52:56 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Banned in the U.S., but coming soon to a foreign capital near you MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit O refuse to be seduced by cash or offersof travel at the expense of subtle distortions: the greatest patriots are those who are most keenly critical. I was just reading about Peter Arnett in Baghdad (he and the CNN were some of the very few - in fact at one stage he was the only American (he became an US citizen) reporting on the war) his battle for truth was not only against the distoprtions of Hussein and his aides etc (who wernt always obstructive) but againts the US Military and the Pentagon and the Government as well as sckeptcism from colleagues: he ws not, like Pilger, "radical", but in a sense was an "ambassador" now that kind of "real" activity is ultimately appreciated...dubious of writers from the US presenting things to foreign people and not into the US!! It would be betterif the West financed people outside the US to report their views on America...and not all of that would be hate meil: point being there would be pecadilloes...no Government likes the "truth" the truth they present wins votes (in the US "votes" and overseas "support" there's not much difference) but the other truths frighten them. I have a gut feeling that this Billy Collins is a bit of a cheesey dick head: but that's only a feeling and I havent met the man...... The CIA like The Voice of America carry out typical Govt. relationship exercises and ou wouldnt expect them t be all negative to the US...the danger is when they cut any criticism. But Id rather see other writers from Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan Kuwait, Kurdistan, Pakistan' China, Texas, India, Indonesia, the Philllipines (and i suppose also the Central American Countires any countries' people other than Americans!) and many others writing about the US and the West. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maria Damon" To: Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 3:52 AM Subject: Re: Banned in the U.S., but coming soon to a foreign capital near you > let's see if any of the below have the guts to refuse these > government-ratifying blandishments, as did some of the here > afore-criticized anti-war poets of the 1960s: lowell, rich, etc. > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 13:58:59 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Philip Berrigan (1923-2002) Brave Man MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit His brother wrote poetry as well. I read it when I was looking for Ted Berrigan's work. Hi poetry was good: he was also in jail ? I think that's correct. A brave man. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Halvard Johnson" To: Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 8:25 AM Subject: RIP: Philip Berrigan (1923-2002) > from Reuters-- > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > December 7, 2002 > U.S. Anti - War Activist Berrigan Dies at 79 > By REUTERS > > > Filed at 10:33 a.m. ET > > BALTIMORE (Reuters) - Philip Berrigan, a former priest who was at the forefront of the American anti-war movement for the past four > decades, died late Friday, the Baltimore Sun reported. He was 79. > > Berrigan, died of liver and kidney cancer at Jonah House, a communal living facility for war resisters in the Baltimore suburb of > Catonsville, the newspaper reported on its Web site on Saturday. > > The former Roman Catholic priest who was ordained in 1955, gained national prominence when he led a group of Vietnam War protesters > who become known as the Catonsville Nine, in staging one of the most dramatic protests of the 1960s. > > The group, which included his brother Daniel, a Jesuit priest, doused homemade napalm on a small bonfire of draft records in a > Catonsville, Maryland, parking lot and ignited a generation of anti-war dissent. More recently he helped found the Plowshares > movement, whose members have attacked federal military property in anti-war and anti-nuclear protests and were then often > imprisoned. > > In a final statement released by his family, he said, ``I die with the conviction, held since 1968 and Catonsville, that nuclear > weapons are the scourge of the earth; to mine for them, manufacture them, deploy them, use them, is a curse against God, the human > family, and the earth itself.'' > > Berrigan persistently and publicly criticized the Vietnam War and U.S. foreign and domestic policy and his defiant protests led him > to serve some 11 years in jail and prison. > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 17:36:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: to begin with In-Reply-To: <002d01c29e54$fe795080$987e37d2@01397384> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit to being with You made a significant step to democrize A big step forward compared to one step forward before dropping to the acquisitions that represent a significant first step in the noted Protocol that is a first major step in a long first step, mentioned in the previous newsletter of first steps. but What Am I Doing In a Step-Family? major steps taken on either to side. forward, back or however are important steps constrained - I am the way, the truth the first (and only) step in those all important steps forward Now, we must take the next step by expanding ... a bold step forward Team, our first step ... First Name: ... receiving a future "something" that we celebrate today as the important step forward that establishments Another Step Forward in Bringing ... Members To Folding instructions: Step 1 : In the first step children. Takes Big Step Forward ... 10 Release first steps. ... the process, establishing consensus statements of purpose and goals, and Once the front of the bus steps forward to the first step and uses ... our office Monday through Friday, 8:00 am-5:00 pm ... a first step, will provide a first step, will provide a single key to step That is the first step, However, it is only the first step. ... A First Step Toward Personal Imaging. ... whether I am looking at ... The first step toward demystifying the world of interior with another step forward on the road or the first step that is a step forward. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 17:55:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: to much wrong In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WHAT AM I DOING? I don't know what the hell you're doing here? How Am=20= I Doing? How Am I Doing? How the fuck am I going to get the 1.3k I lost=20= in vegas back? What the Hell Am I Doing? Am I Doing? Am I Doing This=20 Right?... RE: Big Errors ... What Am I Doing Here. ...Why am I doing=20 this? ... "What Am I Doing Here?" is no ... encounters with "What Am I Doing Here?" never explicitly tackles this eponymous question How am=20= I doing? What Am I Doing? On or about November 1,2001 Why Am I Doing=20 This? In 1986 I read a really cool book."What am I doing here?" Welcome=20= to yet another year - did you expect to find something other than What am I doing wrong?? "Re: what am I doing wrong"; What am I doing in Holland? ?What Am I Doing? Copyright =A9 1999 Letter Four What Am I Doing Here? WHAT AM I DOING ??? I Got an idea !!! See here's the deal, I'm still here ... What am I=20 doing? I need to rethink what I'm doing in my what the hell am i doing? (Diaries) What am I doing here Transcribed by Am I Doing Anything Wrong?=20= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:16:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: Notice: Mudlark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII New and On View: Mudlark Poster No. 43 (2002) Mark Cunningham | Body Mark Cunningham received an MFA from the University of Virginia, and he still lives in the Charlottesville area. His poems have appeared in Another Chicago Magazine, The Prose Poem, and the Sycamore Review. The Heel Wittgenstein asks, "One can own a mirror; does one then own the reflection seen in it?" You don't own the mirror, either. Paint peels, metal oxidizes. The seconds pass, your sphere of habits can't stop that, your life, other lives, a field blown by the earth's turning, hardly noticeable, hardly. A little whisper, that's all fear is. "You make your biggest mark the moment you hit the earth, then comes the pinch, then the small change." The body is a door to dust. With every step, you try its worn knob. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter _________________ MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:08:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Philip Berrigan (1923-2002) Brave Man In-Reply-To: <002d01c29e54$fe795080$987e37d2@01397384> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually, I believe that both Berrigan brothers (Philip and Daniel) wrote poetry, though Daniel was better known for his. I was looking around for some poems by Philip, but haven't found any as yet. Both brothers (and others in their families) did jail time. Some years ago, I read that in the Berrigan circle there were family conferences before various demonstrations to decide who was *not* going to jail and would stay home to take care of kids, etc. The Catonsville 9, the Harrisburg 7, and other such groups included others besides the Berrigan brothers, of course. I have trouble remembering the numbers because I remember so well seeing the two brothers there in the photos. Hal "The only way to do it is to do it." --Merce Cunningham Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard { His brother wrote poetry as well. I read it when I was looking for Ted { Berrigan's work. Hi poetry was good: he was also in jail ? I think that's { correct. A brave man. { { Richard Taylor. { ----- Original Message ----- { From: "Halvard Johnson" { To: { Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 8:25 AM { Subject: RIP: Philip Berrigan (1923-2002) { { { > from Reuters-- { > { > { > { > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- { ------ { > { > December 7, 2002 { > U.S. Anti - War Activist Berrigan Dies at 79 { > By REUTERS { > { > { > Filed at 10:33 a.m. ET { > { > BALTIMORE (Reuters) - Philip Berrigan, a former priest who was at the { forefront of the American anti-war movement for the past four { > decades, died late Friday, the Baltimore Sun reported. He was 79. { > { > Berrigan, died of liver and kidney cancer at Jonah House, a communal { living facility for war resisters in the Baltimore suburb of { > Catonsville, the newspaper reported on its Web site on Saturday. { > { > The former Roman Catholic priest who was ordained in 1955, gained national { prominence when he led a group of Vietnam War protesters { > who become known as the Catonsville Nine, in staging one of the most { dramatic protests of the 1960s. { > { > The group, which included his brother Daniel, a Jesuit priest, doused { homemade napalm on a small bonfire of draft records in a { > Catonsville, Maryland, parking lot and ignited a generation of anti-war { dissent. More recently he helped found the Plowshares { > movement, whose members have attacked federal military property in { anti-war and anti-nuclear protests and were then often { > imprisoned. { > { > In a final statement released by his family, he said, ``I die with the { conviction, held since 1968 and Catonsville, that nuclear { > weapons are the scourge of the earth; to mine for them, manufacture them, { deploy them, use them, is a curse against God, the human { > family, and the earth itself.'' { > { > Berrigan persistently and publicly criticized the Vietnam War and U.S. { foreign and domestic policy and his defiant protests led him { > to serve some 11 years in jail and prison. { > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:12:43 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: strange web page that makes me feel weird MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I just found this web page that makes me feel weird. I am posting it here because it mentions a lot of Poetix names, so perhaps someone here knows what this is. http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~luoma/peace/adir/YfHyATAADhaGpx.html What is it? -Aaron Belz ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 00:55:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Weird web page that makes me feel glad Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:12:43 -0600 > From: Aaron Belz > Subject: strange web page that makes me feel weird > > I just found this web page that makes me feel weird. I am posting it here > because it mentions a lot of Poetix names, so perhaps someone here knows > what this is. > > http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~luoma/peace/adir/YfHyATAADhaGpx.html > > What is it? > > -Aaron Belz > > ------------------------------ This is a project of Bill Luoma's which, thankfully, mercifully, I have found impossible to figure out. Even after receiving a note about it from Bill. Just go to the top and type in a word. Then hit- NEW PAGE-. Today I happen to run into Tony Torn with his wife Lee Ann Brown and her parents. Lee Ann is about to give birth any minute, and the grandparents (it's their first) were very excited. Lee Ann is a week overdue. So I typed in the name Tony Torn at the top, and sure enough, a picture of Tony showed up, with his hair very long and wearing a bandana, with another man looking like he is wearing a pirate hat and boxing gloves with his arms around Tony from the back. Possibly from a play Tony was in? Underneath the picture was the name- Christopher Alexander. So just bring up the page, go to the top and type in anything. Then hit -NEW PAGE- and see what happens. Nick ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 02:09:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Machlin Subject: Futurepoem * Rachel Levitsky Book Party * Dec. 10 In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable POETRY CITY & FUTUREPOEM books invite you to a party to celebrate the publication of: U N D E R T H E S U N new poems by Rachel Levitsky Tuesday, Dec 10, 2002, 7:00 P.M. FREE Teachers & Writers 5 Union Square West, 7th Floor (between 14th and 15th Sts.) New York City (212-691-6590). Readings by Levitsky & Special Guests Directions: Take the 4,5,6,L to Union Square; F,2,3 to 14th. Note: Best to arrive between 7-8 when doorman on duty. * * * "Under the Sun operates on the small stages of intimate conflict and longing, but casts light outside the ring: we see the shadows of the crowd, we smell the dirty water that slaps against the piers. It's a formulation and un-doing of the personal. Intimacy excavated yields characters, ironic and adrift, who quiver in the jackets of their names. We know them by contact, or contract, an occupation of looks and resistance. The poem enact= s the force of situated desire. Under the Sun is brilliant wit wrenching poetics: a word stream taking its shirt off." =8BCamille Roy=20 "I am struck by the intellectual verve of this poem, its complex sense of the architecture of the poem as it responds to diverse literary traditions. This long poem creates rooms of and room for playfulness, humour, political anger, and aesthetic pleasures. It isn't static; it moves; it reads itself and interrogates. =8BCarla Harryman "Rachel Levitsky brilliantly designs mysterious flying objects of language and of desire, as she succeeds in giving each word an intriguing span of life. Her poems are theater, teaser, solution, entretien de tension which keep meaning and its boundaries open for intimate manuvres of reading." =8BNicole Brossard Rachel Levitsky is the author of four previous chapbooks of poetry, Cartographies of Error (Leroy Chapbooks), 2[1x1] Portraits (Baksun), Dearly (A + Bend Press) and The Adventures of Yaya and Grace (Potes and Poets). He= r work has appeared in numerous magazines. She lives and works in New York where she curates the Belladonna reading series and chapbooks series at Bluestockings Womens Bookstore. Futurepoem is supported by the kindness of strangers (a.k.a. individual donations) and a recent grant from the New York Community Trust. For more information on Futurepoem books go to http://www.futurepoem.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:26:27 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: Banned in the U.S., but coming soon to a foreign capital near you MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks,Geoffrey. David -----Original Message----- From: Geoffrey Gatza To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Saturday, December 07, 2002 12:52 PM Subject: Re: Banned in the U.S., but coming soon to a foreign capital near you >David, > >The Creeley quote was near the bootom of the article > >>The poet Robert Creeley said that although the Sept. 11 attacks led to >>an outpouring of poetry to express sorrow, this "passed quickly as the >>country regained its equilibrium, turned to the conduct of an aggressive >>war and, one has to recognize, went back to making money." > >Best, Geoffrey > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "dcmb" >To: >Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 1:38 PM >Subject: Re: Banned in the U.S., but coming soon to a foreign capital near >you > > > Ron, what's the reference to Creeeley' msking sense? Not that I doubt it, > but havent seeen a post by him on this Buffalo List. David > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 02:21:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Golumbia Subject: Re: Weird web page that makes me feel glad In-Reply-To: from "Nick Piombino" at Dec 08, 2002 12:55:10 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's an elegant Read Me file explaining the project at this URL: http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/~luoma/peace/readme.txt maybe this will alleviate weird feelings: it is grabbing text about the search string from Google, and so starting with a poet's name is likely to produce lots of poetics-related or personally-relevant results. that is some interesting work, IMO. > > > Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:12:43 -0600 > > From: Aaron Belz > > Subject: strange web page that makes me feel weird > > > > I just found this web page that makes me feel weird. I am posting it here > > because it mentions a lot of Poetix names, so perhaps someone here knows > > what this is. > > > > http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~luoma/peace/adir/YfHyATAADhaGpx.html > > > > What is it? > > > > -Aaron Belz > > > > ------------------------------ > This is a project of Bill Luoma's which, thankfully, mercifully, I have > found impossible to figure out. Even after receiving a note about it from > Bill. Just go to the top and type in a word. Then hit- NEW PAGE-. Today I > happen to run into Tony Torn with his wife Lee Ann Brown and her parents. > Lee Ann is about to give birth any minute, and the grandparents (it's their > first) were very excited. Lee Ann is a week overdue. So I typed in the name > Tony Torn at the top, and sure enough, a picture of Tony showed up, with his > hair very long and wearing a bandana, with another man looking like he is > wearing a pirate hat and boxing gloves with his arms around Tony from the > back. Possibly from a play Tony was in? Underneath the picture was the name- > Christopher Alexander. So just bring up the page, go to the top and type in > anything. Then hit -NEW PAGE- and see what happens. > > > > Nick > -- dgolumbi@panix.com David Golumbia ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:31:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: Banned in the U.S., but coming soon to a foreign capital near you MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, R.D. David -----Original Message----- From: R. Drake To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Saturday, December 07, 2002 1:36 PM Subject: Re: Banned in the U.S., but coming soon to a foreign capital near you >Creeley is on of the contributors to the State Department publication: > >http://www.usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/writers/creeley.htm > >my impression (from a quick read) was that the licks he did get in were more >co-opted by the context, then succeeding in raising a real banner of sense. >but (to echo gary sullivan in another thread) anything more challenging >praps would have been confrontational to the point of self-defeating... > >luigi > >on 12/7/02 1:38 PM, dcmb at dcmb@SONIC.NET wrote: > >> Ron, what's the reference to Creeeley' msking sense? Not that I doubt it, >> but havent seeen a post by him on this Buffalo List. David >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ron >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Date: Saturday, December 07, 2002 4:51 AM >> Subject: Banned in the U.S., but coming soon to a foreign capital near you >> >> >>> In the 1950s, the CIA funded several programs intended to carry the work >>> of the abstract expressionist painters overseas & even funded a couple >>> of little magazines. While the couple of books written about 15 years >>> ago attempted to turn this into a "abstract expressionism was a CIA >>> plot," a rather loopy leap of logic, it unquestionably helped spread the >>> word of their painting especially to Europe ("overseas" was a smaller >>> place in 1950 in the U.S. imagination). This new program sounds like an >>> exact attempt to do the same thing. >>> >>> It's good to see Creeley making sense amidst it all, >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> December 7, 2002 >>> U.S. Writers Do Cultural Battle Around the Globe >>> By MICHAEL Z. WISE >>> >>> NY Times >>> >>> The Bush administration has recruited prominent American writers to >>> contribute to a State Department anthology and give readings around the >>> globe in a campaign started after 9/11 to use culture to further >>> American diplomatic interests. >>> >>> The participants include four Pulitzer Prize winners, Michael Chabon, >>> Robert Olen Butler, David Herbert Donald and Richard Ford; the American >>> poet laureate, Billy Collins; two Arab-Americans, Naomi Shihab Nye and >>> Elmaz Abinader; and Robert Pinsky, Charles Johnson, Bharati Mukherjee >>> and Sven Birkerts. They were all asked to write about what it means to >>> be an American writer. >>> >>> Although the State Department plans to distribute the 60-page booklet of >>> 15 essays free at American embassies worldwide in the next few weeks, >>> one country has already banned the anthology: the United States. The >>> Smith-Mundt Act of 1948, renewed when the United States Information >>> Agency became part of the State Department three years ago, bars the >>> domestic dissemination of official American information aimed at foreign >>> audiences. >>> >>> "There were Congressional fears of the government propagandizing the >>> American people," said George Clack, the State Department editor who >>> produced the anthology. The essays can, however, be read on a government >>> Web site intended for foreigners >>> (usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/writers). "We do not provide that >>> address to U.S. citizens," Mr. Clack said, adding, "Technology has made >>> a law obsolete, but the law lives on." >>> >>> Despite the domestic blackout, the participants are focused on the >>> potential abroad. "There is the perception abroad that Americans feel >>> culturally superior and are intellectually indifferent," said Mr. Ford, >>> who won the Pulitzer in 1996 for his novel "Independence Day." "Those >>> stereotypes need to be burst." He added that he was eager to go to >>> Islamic nations to help "humanize America" and present a more diverse >>> picture of public opinion than is conveyed by the Bush administration. >>> "With a government like the one we have, when not even 50 percent of >>> Americans voted for the president, the diversity of opinion is not >>> represented," he said. >>> >>> Stuart Holliday, a former White House aide to President Bush who is >>> overseeing the anthology publication as coordinator of the State >>> Department's Office of International Information Programs, said: "We're >>> shining a spotlight on those aspects of our culture that tell the >>> American story. The volume of material is there. The question is how can >>> it be augmented to give a clearer picture of who we are." >>> >>> Before the cold war ended, the United States often sent orchestras, >>> dance troupes and other artists abroad to infiltrate Communist societies >>> culturally. Writers like John Updike, Kurt Vonnegut, Edward Albee and E. >>> L. Doctorow gave government-sponsored readings in Eastern Europe that >>> used literature on behalf of American interests. >>> >>> "People lined up for blocks," recalled William H. Luers, a former >>> American ambassador to Czechoslovakia and later president of the >>> Metropolitan Museum of Art, speaking of Mr. Updike's appearance at the >>> embassy in Prague in the mid-1980's. >>> >>> But the United States Information Agency, which ran that campaign, was >>> folded into the State Department in 1999, and over the last 10 years >>> such programs have been severely reduced. >>> >>> Since 9/11, though, the State Department has increased its efforts to >>> communicate American values to overseas audiences. Mr. Holliday >>> described the anthology, for example, as complementing efforts by >>> Charlotte Beers, a former Madison Avenue advertising executive who is >>> now under secretary of state for public diplomacy, to sell the United >>> States to often hostile Muslim populations. >>> >>> Her campaign includes "Next Chapter," a television show broadcast by the >>> Voice of America in Iran, a worldwide traveling exhibition of >>> photographs of the ravaged World Trade Center site by Joel Meyerowitz, >>> the distribution of videos spotlighting tolerance for American Muslims >>> and a pamphlet showing Muslims as part of mainstream American life. >>> >>> Christopher Ross, the State Department's special coordinator for public >>> diplomacy, has advocated reviving official cultural programs abroad as a >>> "cost-effective investment to ensure U.S. national security" and a way >>> to combat "the skewed, negative and unrepresentative" image of America >>> that he says most people of the world absorb through mass culture and >>> communications. Yet even some of the authors expressed mixed feelings >>> about just how effective such cultural exposure would ultimately prove. >>> >>> In an interview, Billy Collins quoted Auden's famous line that "poetry >>> makes nothing happen," but Mr. Collins tempered that comment by adding: >>> "I think there are some cases where it can. I don't think a group of >>> American writers is going to bring peace to the Middle East, but it puts >>> something in the media that is a counterbalance to the growling and >>> hostilities that fill the pages. It would have a positive and softening >>> influence on things." And while Mr. Collins said he has agreed to join a >>> tour abroad, he added, "It's not a particularly good time for unarmed >>> American poets to be wandering around Jordan and Syria." >>> >>> Ms. Abinader was more optimistic about the potential for the literary >>> initiative to change foreign perceptions. "I don't think I'm going to >>> grab a terrorist by the lapels and say, `There's a better way of doing >>> things,' " she said. "But what you can do is inspire a different kind of >>> power. That's the power of the word." >>> >>> Some of the anthology's authors, paid $2,499 by the government, praise >>> the freedoms they enjoy in the United States, but the collection by no >>> means presents an uncritical picture of the United States. Julia >>> Alvarez, a novelist and poet who moved from the Dominican Republic when >>> she was young, writes that America is not "free of problems or >>> inequalities or even hypocrisies." Robert Olen Butler says that the >>> United States, though `built on the preservation of the rights of >>> minorities, has sometimes been slow to apply those rights fully." >>> Michael Chabon tells of crime and racial unrest in his hometown, >>> Columbia, Md. >>> >>> The poet Robert Creeley said that although the Sept. 11 attacks led to >>> an outpouring of poetry to express sorrow, this "passed quickly as the >>> country regained its equilibrium, turned to the conduct of an aggressive >>> war and, one has to recognize, went back to making money." >>> >>> Ms. Abinader, the daughter of Lebanese immigrants to Pennsylvania, >>> recalls being subjected to racist remarks by her classmates because of >>> her dark complexion. Later in her academic career, she says, "feelings >>> toward Arabs became more negative and sometimes bordered on distrust, >>> even from my own colleagues." >>> >>> The other Arab-American in the volume, Naomi Shihab Nye, was asked to >>> contribute after the State Department took note of an open letter she >>> wrote "to any would-be terrorists" the week after Sept. 11. "I beg you, >>> as your distant Arab cousin, as your American neighbor, listen to me," >>> she wrote in the letter distributed on the Internet and printed in >>> several Arabic-language newspapers. "Our hearts are broken, as yours may >>> also feel broken in some ways we can't understand unless you tell us in >>> words. Killing people won't tell us. We can't read that message. Find >>> another way to live. Don't expect others to be like you." >>> >>> Some 31,000 English-language copies of the new anthology will be >>> available abroad. Editions in Arabic, French, Spanish and Russian are >>> also being prepared. Additional translations into two dozen other >>> languages are expected, with a total of about 100,000 copies likely to >>> be distributed in the next few years. Mr. Holliday said he hoped that >>> the essays would also be reprinted in foreign newspapers and that >>> students abroad would use the texts as course material and to learn >>> English. >>> >>> All but one of the articles appear for the first time in the volume; the >>> essay by Mr. Chabon is a reprint. >>> >>> Mr. Luers applauded the anthology but urged a more coordinated and >>> intensive program of cultural diplomacy. "We have to find ways to convey >>> not just propaganda but the richness of this country's culture," he >>> said. "It's pathetic that we don't make an effort. Very educated people >>> abroad don't realize the depths of our culture behind McDonald's and the >>> violent movies." >>> >> > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 01:20:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: byteloop #0001 paul whitney Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE PAUL WHITNEY COLLECTION byteloop #0001..................excerpt www.the-hyper-age.com Countess giddy Countess Oder giddy Countess Oder giddy Countess Oder giddy Oder Moonfleet Moonfleet Gab Moonfleet Gab Moonfleet Gab Gab suite? suite? suite? suite? see see see coming crashing weaker ones see Jerusalem Furn coming crashing weaker ones Jerusalem Furn coming crashing weaker ones Jerusalem Furn ran driving thee coming crashing weaker ones Jerusalem Furn ran driving thee ran driving thee twas ran driving thee Maskew happily twas wrapping Maskew happily twas des Campagnes Mesa Roi Moab wrapping Maskew happily twas des Campagnes Mesa Roi Moab wrapping Maskew happily des Campagnes Mesa Roi Moab wrapping des Campagnes Mesa Roi Moab fell forthwith Elzevir fell forthwith Elzevir fell forthwith Elzevir psalms smuggling rogues fell forthwith Elzevir psalms smuggling rogues psalms smuggling rogues psalms smuggling rogues all all Ida all Ida waters abated all Ida waters abated Ida widened waters abated widened waters abated vault parson widened vault parson widened vault parson vault parson flash averred flash averred flash averred flash averred returned returned returned returned Fritz plantations villages little Fritz withal plantations villages little Fritz withal plantations villages little Fritz withal plantations villages little withal Syria Syria Syria Syria thee myself donors thee myself donors thee myself donors thee myself donors myself myself Wer myself Wer myself Wer Wer recognised recognised recognised recognised tenders tenders tenders tenders hearted courtesy come hearted courtesy come hearted courtesy? come hearted courtesy come Gab Gab Gab Gab icicle icicle icicle icicle ardently dared ardently dared reparation ardently dared reparation ardently dared reparation reparation Sieg Sieg Sieg Sieg instead instead instead instead given reclaim given reclaim given reclaim divided given discernment reclaim divided shuttle-saying Manor discernment divided shuttle- saying Manor discernment divided shuttle-saying Manor discernment Prince shuttle-saying Manor Prince few arms Prince few arms Prince few arms few arms joined Rosenberg joined Rosenberg Stralenheim? vault fugleman Ratsey joined Rosenberg Stralenheim? vault fugleman Ratsey joined Rosenberg Stralenheim? vault fugleman Ratsey Stralenheim? spoke vault fugleman Ratsey spoke spoke tis spoke tis tis tis Countess Josephine Siegendorf Countess Josephine Siegendorf Countess Josephine Siegendorf Countess Josephine Siegendorf O Ulric Ulric Ulric Elzevir Ulric dread Elzevir dread come Elzevir dread come Elzevir Wer dread Jos come Wer Jos come Wer Jos jumped nimbly Wer Jos jumped nimbly Ulr jumped nimbly Werner Gabor Ulr jumped nimbly All appliances modes Werner Gabor Ulr grating All appliances modes Werner Gabor Ulr grating All appliances modes Werner Gabor grating All appliances modes grating Sieg Sieg Sieg Sieg looks looks looks looks seems seems --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 01:22:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: byteloop #0002 paul whitney Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE PAUL WHITNEY COLLECTION byteloop #0002..................excerpt www.the-hyper-age.com spoils spoils spoils spoils Bel Bel Salemenes feared faithless Satraps Bel Salemenes feared faithless Satraps Thoughts Bel Salemenes feared faithless Satraps Thoughts Salemenes feared faithless Satraps Thoughts Camilla endued Thoughts Camilla endued Camilla endued Camilla endued received received Ben received Orgueil Camilla Ben received Orgueil Camilla Ben Orgueil Camilla Ben Orgueil Camilla rabble shouts rabble shouts Sal rabble shouts Forgiveness Sal rabble shouts wrapping Forgiveness Sal deities such wrapping Forgiveness Sal deities such wrapping Forgiveness deities such wrapping deities such long revel long revel subjects long revel dazzling subjects long revel dazzling subjects dazzling subjects Simplicity dazzling Jove praised Simplicity fatal Jove praised Simplicity pastime fatal brightest Jove praised Simplicity pastime fatal preferable brightest Jove praised pastime fatal preferable brightest pastime Sar preferable brightest Sar preferable Sar Observations capricious Sar Observations capricious Observations capricious Observations capricious Eyes led Valentine Eyes led Valentine relaxed Eyes led Valentine relaxed Eyes led Valentine relaxed considered relaxed dreaded considered dreaded considered dreaded considered dreaded signet signet aught festivals signet aught festivals signet aught festivals Shalt pontiff Gods aught festivals Shalt pontiff Gods Shalt pontiff Gods Ben Shalt pontiff Gods Ben Ben Ben donors Baal donors Baal Ducal resumed donors Baal Ducal resumed donors Baal Ducal resumed Ducal resumed Henry Henry Henry Henry enough enough enough enough tenders tenders tenders tenders hearted sons sate hearted sons sate hearted sons sways sate hearted sons cared sways sate grateful cared sways grateful cared sways grateful cared giving Importunity grateful giving Importunity giving Importunity giving Importunity Mark Adoption Mark Adoption Mark worst worst Adoption Mark worst worst Adoption worst worst worst worst Orgueil Orgueil Orgueil thee Orgueil ? thee thee thee Sal distaff accorded Sal distaff accorded Sal come distaff inveterate accorded Sal come distaff shuttle inveterate accorded come shuttle inveterate come shuttle inveterate Heddington shuttle Heddington Heddington apparent Chearfulness Heddington apparent Chearfulness apparent Chearfulness apparent Chearfulness Camilla risen gainst ne'er Camilla risen gainst ne'er Camilla risen gainst ne'er Camilla risen gainst ne'er Sar Sar Sar Sar unwishing wert unwishing wert unwishing wert unwishing wert proved worst Tyrants proved worst Tyrants proved worst Tyrants proved worst Tyrants oft oft oft oft thee crowns thee crowns thee crowns handsomest behaved cloathed Livery thee crowns handsomest behaved cloathed Livery handsomest behaved cloathed Livery handsomest behaved Malice cloathed Livery Malice Malice Malice warrior? sounding warrior? sounding warrior? sounding warrior? joyous sounding joyous joyous joyous Ho arms arms oft mere Ho arms arms oft mere Ho arms arms oft mere ye slaves freed Ho arms arms oft mere ye slaves freed ye slaves freed --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 03:42:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: I take a walk and my task is different with each glance In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I take a walk and my task is different with each glance Take on the role of hit man, enforcer, getaway driver and more in your=20= struggle for respect, money and power. take actions without thinking=20 about the consequences? Find the best online casinos and gambling=20 information at Take Vegas Home! 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Gerald Schwartz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Halvard Johnson" To: Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 10:08 PM Subject: Re: Philip Berrigan (1923-2002) Brave Man > Actually, I believe that both Berrigan brothers (Philip and Daniel) > wrote poetry, though Daniel was better known for his. I was looking > around for some poems by Philip, but haven't found any as yet. > > Both brothers (and others in their families) did jail time. Some years > ago, I read that in the Berrigan circle there were family conferences > before various demonstrations to decide who was *not* going to > jail and would stay home to take care of kids, etc. > > The Catonsville 9, the Harrisburg 7, and other such groups included > others besides the Berrigan brothers, of course. I have trouble > remembering the numbers because I remember so well seeing the > two brothers there in the photos. > > Hal "The only way to do it is to do it." > --Merce Cunningham > Halvard Johnson > =============== > email: halvard@earthlink.net > website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > { His brother wrote poetry as well. I read it when I was looking for Ted > { Berrigan's work. Hi poetry was good: he was also in jail ? I think that's > { correct. A brave man. > { > { Richard Taylor. > { ----- Original Message ----- > { From: "Halvard Johnson" > { To: > { Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 8:25 AM > { Subject: RIP: Philip Berrigan (1923-2002) > { > { > { > from Reuters-- > { > > { > > { > > { > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > { ------ > { > > { > December 7, 2002 > { > U.S. Anti - War Activist Berrigan Dies at 79 > { > By REUTERS > { > > { > > { > Filed at 10:33 a.m. ET > { > > { > BALTIMORE (Reuters) - Philip Berrigan, a former priest who was at the > { forefront of the American anti-war movement for the past four > { > decades, died late Friday, the Baltimore Sun reported. He was 79. > { > > { > Berrigan, died of liver and kidney cancer at Jonah House, a communal > { living facility for war resisters in the Baltimore suburb of > { > Catonsville, the newspaper reported on its Web site on Saturday. > { > > { > The former Roman Catholic priest who was ordained in 1955, gained national > { prominence when he led a group of Vietnam War protesters > { > who become known as the Catonsville Nine, in staging one of the most > { dramatic protests of the 1960s. > { > > { > The group, which included his brother Daniel, a Jesuit priest, doused > { homemade napalm on a small bonfire of draft records in a > { > Catonsville, Maryland, parking lot and ignited a generation of anti-war > { dissent. More recently he helped found the Plowshares > { > movement, whose members have attacked federal military property in > { anti-war and anti-nuclear protests and were then often > { > imprisoned. > { > > { > In a final statement released by his family, he said, ``I die with the > { conviction, held since 1968 and Catonsville, that nuclear > { > weapons are the scourge of the earth; to mine for them, manufacture them, > { deploy them, use them, is a curse against God, the human > { > family, and the earth itself.'' > { > > { > Berrigan persistently and publicly criticized the Vietnam War and U.S. > { foreign and domestic policy and his defiant protests led him > { > to serve some 11 years in jail and prison. > { > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 08:34:00 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: antiwar poetry continued In-Reply-To: <3DF17ACF@webmail> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable these are good points. i for one, am not willing to write off allen ginsberg's antics as "bad poetry" or acknowledge that vietnam-era protest poetry "failed." failed to do what? it certainly helped, along with mass movements, insurgency, fragging, etc etc (see Michael Bibby's Hearts and Minds, about Viet Nam era political poetry, including a great chapter on anti-war GI movement publications), to get the US out of the war. At 5:32 PM -0500 12/7/02, pmetres wrote: >Jeffrey, et. al., > >Just a couple comments on Jeffrey Jullich=92s thoughtful consideration of t= he >problems of =93antiwar poetry.=94 Altieri=92s notion=97and indeed, most p= oetry >critics=92 doxa=97that Vietnam War antiwar poems =93fail,=94 begs the quest= ion >regarding their failure. What is an antiwar poem trying to do? For me, po= ets >like Denise Levertov, Robert Lowell, regardless of their =93failures=94=97a= nd >indeed, many of Levertov=92s antiwar poems fail even in their rhetorical= task of >convincing others to oppose war=97provided with me, a young poet, with= models of >how poets can engage in the construction of a counternarrative of the war. = I >learned more about the antiwar movement in Berkeley from Levertov=92s =93No= tebook=94 >than I did from just about any other source, including the useful documenta= ry, >=93Berkeley in the Sixties.=94 Levertov, following the lead of Pound, Ruke= yser, >Williams, and others, included such amusing found texts as a flyer from the >movement, which suggested that people fly kites at demonstrations=97for >aesthetic and practical reasons=97to keep the helicopters away. Now, I am = not >going to lie in the buffalo poetics listserv road and say I=92ll die for th= at >poem, but one of the things, it seems to me, that folks like Levertov did >well, was provide a lyric testimony and narrative of war resistance. Other >poets, equally square in terms of their aesthetics, like William Stafford, >have written a corpus of poems working on a poetics of pacifism. Stafford = and >Mac Low, for me, represent the polar possibilities of working out what >anarcho-pacifism might look like in poetry. So, I understand Watten=92s >distrust of Levertov=92s rhetorical gestures, and Altieri=92s dislike of mu= ch >antiwar poetry=97but wouldn=92t we say the same thing about any group of po= ems? > >Phil Metres > >**** > >Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 21:59:40 -0800 >From: Jeffrey Jullich >Subject: Re: anti-war poetry reading > >I hope some of these Buffalo anti-war poetry >readers/explorers report back on the event. I'm very >curious: Tim's question ("What might anti-war >literature look like today, in a time quite different >than the 60s/70s, the period we reflexively think of >when discussing an anti-war movement. How has >theory/poetics changed how we approach this subject? >What's at stake here?") couldn't be more timely to our >agreed purpose of poetics nor, to me, more >bewildering. I wanted to follow up on Joe Safdie's >recent post about the same problem ("imaginative art >that can incorporate some response to -- and even >provide a chronicle of -- this recent chain of >terrifying events. I feel that the poets alive today >will eventually be seen as among the most shameful >practitioners of the art if we don't produce such >work"; see > >http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=3Dind0211&L=3Dpoetics&P=3DR5= 0484&I=3D-3&m=3D57246), > >but it was a topic no one pursued. I tracked down >Barrett Watten's ~Critical Inquiry~ essay, "The Turn >toward Language in the 60s," and Andrea Brady's >less-harsh-on-Language-Poetry-than-originally-reported >"Grief" essay in ~Radical Philosophy,~ hoping for some >guiding light,--- but was left just as mystified (W.S. >Merwin's opacity, a precursor to Language Poetry??) >and stymied by the trail of cookie crumbs leading >further into a dark forest with the Charles Altieri >reference that only elsewhere would prove why Denise >Levertov's political transparency had become laughable >and unsupportable. > >Recently, I went through a series of back-channels >with someone who wrote me exhorting that any future >issues of the journal that I edited, LOGOPOEIA > >( http://www.logopoeialogopoeia.da.ru/ ), > >dedicate it more to a recommitment to > >political poetry, > >a "dare" I still find myself baffled over, ---as no >one in fact seems to be ~writing~ that kind of poetry, >at least in explicit/content-based terms. ...Or, as >Altieri may have said, that it leads almost >immediately into "bad" poetry. > >Joe wrote that "abstract and apolitical lyrics flood >this listserv", and, among other question marks, I was >left wondering--- whether by "abstract" what he wasn't >rather hitting upon might be that Pater's dictum of >"all arts aspire to the condition of music" has in >fact been ~reached~ in "our style" of poetry; and if >that plateau, which he sees as "abstract," doesn't >engender brand new problems as far as political >referentialism--- much like a composer of instrumental >music asking how new music could be political or >anti-war. (Are those shadows of lumbering giants that >I hear Prokofiev orchestrating into the symphonies of >his that I've been listening to this week abstract >critiques of Stalinism? Isn't the politics of >monarchy ~audible~ in the abstract music that the >Esterhazys commissioned? ...And likewise an >anti-anti-semitism / anti-eugenic-exclusivism equally >materialized in the tonal all-inclusiveness of Second >Vienna School twelve-tonality, etc., etc., etc.?) > >I wonder too, unlike the allegedly risible Levertov >poem that reported about her actual protesters' park >occupation experience, whether the first kind of new >anti-war or political poetry that facilely comes to >mind wouldn't in fact be poetry about ~media >representations~ of the political >(newspapers/television), and hence actually a boojum >of ---excuse me--- Baudrillard's hyperreal, rather >than realpolitik. I.e., is it political to say "This >is what I read in the newspaper"? > >Etc. > >Barrett Watten's recent post about Tanya and the >Simbionese Liberation Army as examples of "radical >irrationalism" was tantalizing,--- but it left the >reader desperately in need of elaboration: When Watten >says "I would propose that current social discourses >of terrorism derive from such events", was he >proposing it ~proscriptively,~ in the sense that what >the world (and poetry) needs now is a ~return~ to >Simbionese-style radical irrationalism, sweet radical >irrationalism, hence to build a political poetry upon >its own comedic ungroundedness,--- > >or did he mean that recuperation into >state-vs.-revolutionary irrationalism became the >subsequent discursive ~imprisonment~ that ~prevents~ >political poetry? > >I also tried reading Daniel Davidson's 2002 Krupskaya >book, ~Culture,~ because Ben Friedlander and Gary >Sullivan blurb it as being quintessentially political >(SPD catalog: "One question was foremost in his mind: >just how far can experimental be construed as direct >political action?"; B.F.: "Politics for Dan Davidson >was a site-specific performance art"),--- but, for me, >the book may have crossed over that "just how far" >line and ~no longer~ be so construable, as I was at a >near-total loss to recognize its hermetic >politicality. > >The recurrent craving that these calls to a >neo-political poetry seem to be expressing is for a >poetry other than the formalism-as-politics that >Language Poetry so convincingly theorized. > >So, I find myself thrown back upon the politicality of >minor canonical examples, like the proto-~Paradise~ >neo-Latin "In Quintum Novembris" that the 17-year old >John Milton wrote in reaction to Guy Fawkes' >("terrorist") gunpowder plot to explode Parliament >House,--- which enacts its poetic politicism entirely >through an imagination of The Beyond: "You have it in >your power to scatter their dismembered bodies through >the air, to burn them to cinders, by exploding nitrous >powder under the halls where they will assemble" >("Atque dare in cineres, nitrati pulveris igne / >Aedibus iniecto, qua convenere, sub imis": trans. [?] >Merritt Y. Hughes, ~John Milton: Complete Poems and >Major Prose,~ p. 18). > > >I might mention the recent (failed?) attempt of the >e-journal http://www.newmediapoets.com/nmp.html, which >entered into its dedication to drumming up a new >political poetry with even a ~manifesto~ in tow, >against the anachronistic limbo of most current >poetry: "We are a movement of engagement. Always >engaged, we articulate our participation in a culture, >in an economy, in a particular country, now ... We see >beauty in nouns and names, proper and otherwise: Tiger >Woods ... We know these names to be within the >perimeters of the poetic...", however collecting >somewhat oblique work, itself. > >(I should add, I genuinely do believe that the diptych >of poems Garrett Kalleberg published in LOGOPOEIA were >some of the first, best, "post-9/11" poetry I've read: >"I take a draw on a cigarette / which pulls a young >Pakistani man=92s / hand holding an oiled cloth down the >length / of the barrel of a gun...".) > >Has anyone read the O Books journal Enough that Leslie >Scalapino edited, which also addressed "anti-war >poetry" (SPD: "based on the theme 'Seeing is a form of >change,' this issue investigates warfare and the World >Trade Center bombing", with poetry by our A-List: >McClure, Notley, Bernstein, Davies, A. Berrigan, >Hofer, Joris, Darragh/Inman, Osman, etc., etc.,...)? -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 02:48:04 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Bill Millett Anyone There Know the Cranky Yank? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > > > > > Bill Millett was from the United States (came mid to late 60s > > I think) and > > he knew some well known poets in the US: I also saw his > > photograph in a book > > about The Beats. he said he managed Little Richard in NY. > > Now he was in the > > airforce and his big thing was his passion against the > > nuclear proliferation > > and also he had a big "agony" (I think he was quite genuine > > and genuinely > > tormented by various injustivces he saw and or imagined) re > > Hiroshima and > > Nuclear (potential) war and so on): he was a "cranky Yank" but a > > humanist:but in the late 60s here in Auckland new Zealand he > > had a poster > > shop (psychelic posters of things like Hendrix I suppose and > > maybe Malcolm X > > or Marx or Mao or whatever: but he was an interesting > > character (infact my > > ex wife worked for him in that shop when she was quite young) > > now he had a > > lot of energy and introduced a lot of new ideas into the "scene" in > > Auckland just as hippies were starting here as everywhere: he was also > > astute with a lot of practical things and new how to fix cars, and do > > lighting and so on: he may have been one of the first to > > introduce disco > > lights here...or he worked in that field: the down side of > > Bill (I think he > > hailed form NY and he mentioned he knew Shapiro is a name I > > recall) was that > > he would (eg) do a "reading" of his "Jesus Christ was A > > Black Man" or his > > posters which were in front of the audience as he read: and > > was often very > > greatly apreciated...but the next day (after I had him on as > > "Wild Bill > > Millett" in Panmure here (a working class suburb) where we > > got a lot of > > people (and as I said he was brilliantly recieved) but the > > next day he rang > > me and went on for an 1 1/2 hours about all the negative things of his > > reading!! When he had been a brilliant success...! > > > > He was writing an opera but the musican involved (a Belgian > > who was very > > good on the guitar (classical I think only)) could never get > > a decision on > > the music: (Bill would drive him near mad talking for hours > > about it and > > other things) it was never good enough or something....so he > > was a character > > and probably a phenomenom and his press ( on which he produced an > > extraordinary book "Things of Green, Things of Iron" which > > was hand made on > > his big press anad has many very great NZ artists in...I > > acquired a copy of > > it but its NFS its too unique: but it has to be seen to be > > appreciated (this > > done way before computers were easily available) was used to > > publish poetry > > books for The hard Ecko Press here and in those days the > > present owner of a > > very large second hand bookshop (The Hard to Find - they're > > on abebooks,com) > > was involved I believe in the early days in a printing > > venture..(.but I'm > > not sure of the details).... I just wondered if anyone in NY > > or the States > > recalls Bill Millett. > > > > Richard Taylor. > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:04:14 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Laura Elrick Subject: Kasey Mohammed and Adeena Karasick Reading NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SEGUE READING SERIES AT THE BOWERY POETRY CLUB=20 Due to illness, Dorothy Trujillo Lusk will not be reading as planned. We ar= e=20 pleased to announce instead:=20 December 14: K. Silem Mohammad & Adeena Karasick K. Silem Mohammad's poetry has appeared in Combo, 580 Split, The San Jose=20 Manual of Style, Cello Entry, and other small journals. His chapbook=20 hovercraft, published by Kenning, is available through Small Press=20 Distribution. www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/combo/6/mohammed.html=20 Adeena Karasick has just returned to the U.S. from a two-week reading tour o= f=20 the U.K. and France. Born in Winnipeg, of Russian Jewish heritage, Adeena=20 Karasick is a poet / cultural theorist and video and performance artist; as=20 well as the award-winning author of five books of poetry and poetic theory,=20 The Arugula Fugues (Zasterle Press, 2001), Dyssemia Sleaze (Talonbooks,=20 2000), Genrecide (Talonbooks, 1996), M=EAmewars (Talonbooks, 1994), and The=20 Empress Has No Closure (Talonbooks, 1992). http://www.bowerypoetry.com/=20 308 BOWERY, JUST NORTH OF HOUSTON=20 SATURDAYS FROM 4 - 6 PM=20 $4 admission goes to support the readers=20 Funding is made possible by the continuing support of the Segue Foundation=20 and the Literature Program of the New York State Council on the Arts.=20 Curators:=20 October/November--Brian Kim Stefans & Gary Sullivan=20 December/January--Laura Elrick & Michael Scharf ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:18:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: hi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hey tom - new images in http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ azure-ectoplasm or the remains of wayward slaughter perfection of ts'ao can't seem to get beyond a sadness gripping me constantly. almost 60 and nothing to show for it. the death of america all around us. you can almost see the horizon lowered to the ground - people coming over tonight for a belated chanukah - should be nice - i think of candles huddling in the dark - rising to the temperature to stay alive. it's as if the future is speaking to me, writing it all out, word for word at the moment - someday i'll have a real job and stability and we'll both have healthcare and the world will be at peace - in another country and another life - reading dropping ashes on the buddha, 'zen master seung sahn' - gift from eugene - quite recommend it - ellen and i will translate again this afternoon - back to the 1000 char. essay - it staves off the breathless dark - if we'd known, would we have wanted to be born - azure says hello - we miss you - the boys and girls of the flying saucer - everyone - - love, alan, say hi to everyone in brussels - ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 11:05:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: antiwar poetry continued In-Reply-To: <3DF17ACF@webmail> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable It's been ages since I have read Stafford and don't have a book of his in the house. But a line in a poem he wrote (I believe) during World War II, resonates with my sense of what's going on in the name of national security= : We live in an occupied country, Becky Other than a sense of surrounding darkness, I forget the rest. Another book I do not have is Carolyn Forche's Norton Anthology of War poem= s - which may now be historically instructive. Her own work on El Salvador in the seventies & eighties (particularly the one about the General and the severed Rebel ears) was a genuine consciousness raising episode at readings= . The poem definitely got under the skin of this country's overt and covert support of the Contras in both Nicaragua and El Salvador - both wars also travesties in terms of North American right wing agendas. "Sincerity" as a poetic strategy (a very common stance in much Viet-Nam anti-war work) always struck me as more self-serving than instrumental in changing a public point of view. I suspect one of the big things learned is how limited so much of American modernist poetix is when it comes to gettin= g outside its box. Levertov's cultural insularity made her work, for example, about El Salvadorians both sentimental and patronizing (no matter her stron= g political support for the rebels). I imagine the El Salvadorians - if they heard her - wondered who she was imagining, or it gave them, I suspect, 'missionary shivers'. The experience made me want to go back and read her 'real' work. =20 But I agree with Maria D that to apply a broad dismissive cloth is totally misleading and off the mark(s). Cumulatively - like it in sum or in parts - it was significant. (It's taken a whole bunch of years for the Right to be able to - shamelessly - bring back Eliot Abrams and Admiral Poindexter - both of whom were once convicted for lying and stripped of any public credibility). And, on the poetry side, Robert Bly, a primary lead in anti-war poetry events, will undoubtedly be at it again! Now, I suspect, new work will be made in direct response (going back to Stafford) to the new "occupation" - and strategies will be cyber-marked - a domestic war against occupation that will, in part, be fought over or against the control of virtual space combined with knocks on the door. Language - how it leaves and how it arrives, the improvisation of new strategies - will be as important as ever. "Homeland" and "Security" will b= e highly tested definitions, as well as new determinations and wars over who and what forms control "public and cultural space." This is getting too serious. One thing I certainly miss from Allen Ginsberg was his great sense of public good humor. It often managed to suck a lot of paranoia out of the air. I hope the new work can bring that back to the plate. The kites are OK! Stephen V =20 on 12/7/02 2:32 PM, pmetres at pmetres@JCU.EDU wrote: > Jeffrey, et. al., >=20 > Just a couple comments on Jeffrey Jullich=92s thoughtful consideration of t= he > problems of =93antiwar poetry.=94 Altieri=92s notion=97and indeed, most poetry > critics=92 doxa=97that Vietnam War antiwar poems =93fail,=94 begs the question > regarding their failure. What is an antiwar poem trying to do? For me, = poets > like Denise Levertov, Robert Lowell, regardless of their =93failures=94=97and > indeed, many of Levertov=92s antiwar poems fail even in their rhetorical ta= sk of > convincing others to oppose war=97provided with me, a young poet, with mode= ls of > how poets can engage in the construction of a counternarrative of the war= . I > learned more about the antiwar movement in Berkeley from Levertov=92s =93Note= book=94 > than I did from just about any other source, including the useful documen= tary, > =93Berkeley in the Sixties.=94 Levertov, following the lead of Pound, Rukeys= er, > Williams, and others, included such amusing found texts as a flyer from t= he > movement, which suggested that people fly kites at demonstrations=97for > aesthetic and practical reasons=97to keep the helicopters away. Now, I am = not > going to lie in the buffalo poetics listserv road and say I=92ll die for th= at > poem, but one of the things, it seems to me, that folks like Levertov did > well, was provide a lyric testimony and narrative of war resistance. Oth= er > poets, equally square in terms of their aesthetics, like William Stafford= , > have written a corpus of poems working on a poetics of pacifism. Staffor= d and > Mac Low, for me, represent the polar possibilities of working out what > anarcho-pacifism might look like in poetry. So, I understand Watten=92s > distrust of Levertov=92s rhetorical gestures, and Altieri=92s dislike of much > antiwar poetry=97but wouldn=92t we say the same thing about any group of poem= s? >=20 > Phil Metres >=20 > **** >=20 > Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 21:59:40 -0800 > From: Jeffrey Jullich > Subject: Re: anti-war poetry reading >=20 > I hope some of these Buffalo anti-war poetry > readers/explorers report back on the event. I'm very > curious: Tim's question ("What might anti-war > literature look like today, in a time quite different > than the 60s/70s, the period we reflexively think of > when discussing an anti-war movement. How has > theory/poetics changed how we approach this subject? > What's at stake here?") couldn't be more timely to our > agreed purpose of poetics nor, to me, more > bewildering. I wanted to follow up on Joe Safdie's > recent post about the same problem ("imaginative art > that can incorporate some response to -- and even > provide a chronicle of -- this recent chain of > terrifying events. I feel that the poets alive today > will eventually be seen as among the most shameful > practitioners of the art if we don't produce such > work"; see >=20 > http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=3Dind0211&L=3Dpoetics&P=3DR50484= &I=3D-3 > &m=3D57246), >=20 > but it was a topic no one pursued. I tracked down > Barrett Watten's ~Critical Inquiry~ essay, "The Turn > toward Language in the 60s," and Andrea Brady's > less-harsh-on-Language-Poetry-than-originally-reported > "Grief" essay in ~Radical Philosophy,~ hoping for some > guiding light,--- but was left just as mystified (W.S. > Merwin's opacity, a precursor to Language Poetry??) > and stymied by the trail of cookie crumbs leading > further into a dark forest with the Charles Altieri > reference that only elsewhere would prove why Denise > Levertov's political transparency had become laughable > and unsupportable. >=20 > Recently, I went through a series of back-channels > with someone who wrote me exhorting that any future > issues of the journal that I edited, LOGOPOEIA >=20 > ( http://www.logopoeialogopoeia.da.ru/ ), >=20 > dedicate it more to a recommitment to >=20 > political poetry, >=20 > a "dare" I still find myself baffled over, ---as no > one in fact seems to be ~writing~ that kind of poetry, > at least in explicit/content-based terms. ...Or, as > Altieri may have said, that it leads almost > immediately into "bad" poetry. >=20 > Joe wrote that "abstract and apolitical lyrics flood > this listserv", and, among other question marks, I was > left wondering--- whether by "abstract" what he wasn't > rather hitting upon might be that Pater's dictum of > "all arts aspire to the condition of music" has in > fact been ~reached~ in "our style" of poetry; and if > that plateau, which he sees as "abstract," doesn't > engender brand new problems as far as political > referentialism--- much like a composer of instrumental > music asking how new music could be political or > anti-war. (Are those shadows of lumbering giants that > I hear Prokofiev orchestrating into the symphonies of > his that I've been listening to this week abstract > critiques of Stalinism? Isn't the politics of > monarchy ~audible~ in the abstract music that the > Esterhazys commissioned? ...And likewise an > anti-anti-semitism / anti-eugenic-exclusivism equally > materialized in the tonal all-inclusiveness of Second > Vienna School twelve-tonality, etc., etc., etc.?) >=20 > I wonder too, unlike the allegedly risible Levertov > poem that reported about her actual protesters' park > occupation experience, whether the first kind of new > anti-war or political poetry that facilely comes to > mind wouldn't in fact be poetry about ~media > representations~ of the political > (newspapers/television), and hence actually a boojum > of ---excuse me--- Baudrillard's hyperreal, rather > than realpolitik. I.e., is it political to say "This > is what I read in the newspaper"? >=20 > Etc. >=20 > Barrett Watten's recent post about Tanya and the > Simbionese Liberation Army as examples of "radical > irrationalism" was tantalizing,--- but it left the > reader desperately in need of elaboration: When Watten > says "I would propose that current social discourses > of terrorism derive from such events", was he > proposing it ~proscriptively,~ in the sense that what > the world (and poetry) needs now is a ~return~ to > Simbionese-style radical irrationalism, sweet radical > irrationalism, hence to build a political poetry upon > its own comedic ungroundedness,--- >=20 > or did he mean that recuperation into > state-vs.-revolutionary irrationalism became the > subsequent discursive ~imprisonment~ that ~prevents~ > political poetry? >=20 > I also tried reading Daniel Davidson's 2002 Krupskaya > book, ~Culture,~ because Ben Friedlander and Gary > Sullivan blurb it as being quintessentially political > (SPD catalog: "One question was foremost in his mind: > just how far can experimental be construed as direct > political action?"; B.F.: "Politics for Dan Davidson > was a site-specific performance art"),--- but, for me, > the book may have crossed over that "just how far" > line and ~no longer~ be so construable, as I was at a > near-total loss to recognize its hermetic > politicality. >=20 > The recurrent craving that these calls to a > neo-political poetry seem to be expressing is for a > poetry other than the formalism-as-politics that > Language Poetry so convincingly theorized. >=20 > So, I find myself thrown back upon the politicality of > minor canonical examples, like the proto-~Paradise~ > neo-Latin "In Quintum Novembris" that the 17-year old > John Milton wrote in reaction to Guy Fawkes' > ("terrorist") gunpowder plot to explode Parliament > House,--- which enacts its poetic politicism entirely > through an imagination of The Beyond: "You have it in > your power to scatter their dismembered bodies through > the air, to burn them to cinders, by exploding nitrous > powder under the halls where they will assemble" > ("Atque dare in cineres, nitrati pulveris igne / > Aedibus iniecto, qua convenere, sub imis": trans. [?] > Merritt Y. Hughes, ~John Milton: Complete Poems and > Major Prose,~ p. 18). >=20 >=20 > I might mention the recent (failed?) attempt of the > e-journal http://www.newmediapoets.com/nmp.html, which > entered into its dedication to drumming up a new > political poetry with even a ~manifesto~ in tow, > against the anachronistic limbo of most current > poetry: "We are a movement of engagement. Always > engaged, we articulate our participation in a culture, > in an economy, in a particular country, now ... We see > beauty in nouns and names, proper and otherwise: Tiger > Woods ... We know these names to be within the > perimeters of the poetic...", however collecting > somewhat oblique work, itself. >=20 > (I should add, I genuinely do believe that the diptych > of poems Garrett Kalleberg published in LOGOPOEIA were > some of the first, best, "post-9/11" poetry I've read: > "I take a draw on a cigarette / which pulls a young > Pakistani man=92s / hand holding an oiled cloth down the > length / of the barrel of a gun...".) >=20 > Has anyone read the O Books journal Enough that Leslie > Scalapino edited, which also addressed "anti-war > poetry" (SPD: "based on the theme 'Seeing is a form of > change,' this issue investigates warfare and the World > Trade Center bombing", with poetry by our A-List: > McClure, Notley, Bernstein, Davies, A. Berrigan, > Hofer, Joris, Darragh/Inman, Osman, etc., etc.,...)? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 13:12:59 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: 'Greatest living poet' lets words slide Comments: cc: WRYTING-L Disciplines In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Poet Laureate Billy Collins recalls being dumbfounded during his first reading of Ashbery's poetry, which he likens to language that has been sprayed with WD-40, so that the words slip from their proper positions and slide around the page. http://www.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/books/12/08/wkd.john.ashbery.ap/ index.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:06:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Weird web page that makes me feel glad In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT It is wonderful. It takes search results (including images) from sources including various newspapers and listservs, but not only from the name together (if you type in a name or phrase) but from the words in the phrase separately. It recombines the results, using at least some syntax from Stein, it seems. I particularly like the way in which names are linked with "mail to"s to completely different people than those named in the link. If you type in the same thing over and over the words split apart nicely, reducing to repeated character strings. Be well, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 13:38:31 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: tha shizzolator Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Not in the same league with Newspage, but amusing on a different level is tha Shizzolator, a Web page that turns text from other Web pages into Snoop Dogg-speak. Bests, Herb -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 15:08:35 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Sweet Clear Handful, part 1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed page 1 Cursive Projects Veil Elation chastity cranked up pre-coital, balled up to negotiate the cathodized makes grief, - disaggregated striation - 'tween pretext fingering text decor ________________________________________________________________________ page 2 the underdog visits stains prize decimal tacit by day unfolding oblique gauze hazy stains to dial bagginess any sweet clear handful reprisal of somatic mental means display by coil, Bill Bailey whiplash butchers, Unpaid Stunts Warrant Mimetic Suicides this gun puffs their posts ________________________________________________________________________ page 3 apt slave to makeshift fronting recall as higher plea limits surface recall fasten shortwave tremors General Chagrin, original heir stratagem: if I were tuned to color the townies hardened floral clothes win diabolism waterproof analogy bombs lip reading HARDER, historical misgivings! ________________________________________________________________________ page 4 whale with grief Ahab a false spasm over flight with arrows idioms are deep skitters glottal visits covariant zero fellates sediment, with alpha devotedness to burn - Stork beaks apart his lung ________________________________________________________________________ page 5 bottom-blue posture elided hopscotch colloquium, scrupled milky filigrees, a four-star prognostic trough O paid up & laid up prairie pronoun, expunge each convertible! ________________________________________________________________________ page 6 tufts fixed nearby, less Listerine to dial only one life has gone ungraded: Lipstick for Dessert ________________________________________________________________________ page 7 armies disgrace handwriting, clover yoked to curves, so doubt a wrapper bounce cheek to originals, shrill cuds ________________________________________________________________________ page 8 alertness aloft to pair off folds farce both excuse slurs smut seepage, hope to slice honeyed majorities idle gangsterism balks the gun boredom pales some kinks slabs juice enlargement slipping loans under the slunk, & glide on in, crescent razors ________________________________________________________________________ page 9 friction mousing its mouth the nightclubbish are de-rhapsodized ________________________________________________________________________ page 10 oxygen is a dunce! spokes to look luxurious incentive freeze the malicious reliquary tongues gird candid plaid hints foreorder elation coolants mean nothing infantile hindrances partnering data Appius lynched amyl invoices bystanders wording fiat crop, that's not MEDUSA, it's the HYDRA, you got your SNAKES mixed up ________________________________________________________________________ page 11 leather blackboard, where have you gone? ________________________________________________________________________ page 12 paragraphs stir to hilt sudden cranked hospitality to scheming aperitif species due for electrostatic croaked hospitality immaculate unison toys with a pancake envy (just some gloom to pass the tomb), fluent in a prize glottal flight ------------ ------> standards looping delectation chatter tidily of nerve radius, their razors short-changed every summer ________________________________________________________________________ page 13 recall frills paid to soften eagerness decimal with layers color-coded decades, sloppy allowance for saline arousal debutante chairs gone to seed, our murmur only too lavish biology reeks of cheap puffs & cryptic primer conscription ________________________________________________________________________ page 14 say-so buttock delay risk/rescind membrane slices to bribe illogical knockabouts riposte! - hate cushions privacy plans subsume long-slung palatials moonlit invasion a chic arpeggio bodiless and idle...complicated fondle chastity shines eyeing nothing neat dunce forespit as good as gallant poems swoop, glutted to burn doll-demeanor will stave toys options favor disgrace at the end skipping monopoly, skip back hatchmarks dampener (vacancy) keys up incessant arch mistrustful look same & over, fading cream gamecocks fish for tight organs - your breath a frightened safety net ________________________________________________________________________ page 15 ennui scratches a loop wetter prismatic incision, annoyance prompts laughable though operational candelabra, repeating cohesion by eulogical fusillade avowals rehearse these shores respectively privacy overrescinded to trap awry falsify comfort, you registrant optics ________________________________________________________________________ page 16 humble crowds becoming circular, a leg up on disagreement - less risk to think she doesn't always wear a dress when she's Baby Jesus, etiquette is money when you can't get take it back, cheap lithesome liqueur abashed down to each follicle kindly plod graft to graft, strop robot, and keep the circulation taut ________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 15:09:52 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: Weird web page that makes me feel glad MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT This is weird, friends, but it's also neat. I entered my own name here: http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/~luoma/peace/adir/MbUuMVZAZ8a4Wt.html This has vanity value. This is kind of like looking in a mirror of your own web, all tangled back up the way it originally was before you put it there. Back when it was still imaginary, before it was typed in. We are being cached, friends. From the Show-Me State, A Belz ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 15:13:11 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: Weird web page that makes me feel glad MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT This Bill Luoma thing is kind of similar to in principle, but different in every other way, to this Googlism thing-- http://www.googlism.com/ Try it, friends. From the gray country, Aaron Sanderson B. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 13:21:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Re: antiwar poetry continued In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I may be in the tiny minority, but I dislike the Vietnam memorial and have never considered it great art. To me the idea of indiscriminately mixing up the names of the dead - and only Americans, it should be noted, so the picture it represents is very one-sided and FAR from complete - is the wrong way to memorialize the people who died in this war. It places knowing butchers and involuntary draftees in proximity to each other without any kind of consideration of the relative value of each. It's a dubiously amoral piece in this regard and not the least bit anti-war that I can see. I also find its big stone blocks to be a form of mystification that ennobles war in a way by making it seem inscrutable and timeless. I hope I don't offend anybody by these comments, but I just wanted to speak out and add my own rather roughly hewn view of a work I frankly know little about and admire not at all. You may all choose to ignore me in scornful silence, which would be fine. -m ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 16:58:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bianchi Subject: Re: Philip Berrigan (1923-2002) Brave Man MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit for those of us who are Catholics, Progressives and Poets the Berrigans were as important as Merton, or Dorothy Day, or many others. In the great and good things that happened after the Second Vatican Council and before the current darkness in Rome crushed them the Berrigans were a light and they along with Father Jose Cardenal, Dom Helder Camarra, Dorothy Day and Thomas Merton gave us all hope. RB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Halvard Johnson" To: Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 10:08 PM Subject: Re: Philip Berrigan (1923-2002) Brave Man > Actually, I believe that both Berrigan brothers (Philip and Daniel) > wrote poetry, though Daniel was better known for his. I was looking > around for some poems by Philip, but haven't found any as yet. > > Both brothers (and others in their families) did jail time. Some years > ago, I read that in the Berrigan circle there were family conferences > before various demonstrations to decide who was *not* going to > jail and would stay home to take care of kids, etc. > > The Catonsville 9, the Harrisburg 7, and other such groups included > others besides the Berrigan brothers, of course. I have trouble > remembering the numbers because I remember so well seeing the > two brothers there in the photos. > > Hal "The only way to do it is to do it." > --Merce Cunningham > Halvard Johnson > =============== > email: halvard@earthlink.net > website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > { His brother wrote poetry as well. I read it when I was looking for Ted > { Berrigan's work. Hi poetry was good: he was also in jail ? I think that's > { correct. A brave man. > { > { Richard Taylor. > { ----- Original Message ----- > { From: "Halvard Johnson" > { To: > { Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 8:25 AM > { Subject: RIP: Philip Berrigan (1923-2002) > { > { > { > from Reuters-- > { > > { > > { > > { > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > { ------ > { > > { > December 7, 2002 > { > U.S. Anti - War Activist Berrigan Dies at 79 > { > By REUTERS > { > > { > > { > Filed at 10:33 a.m. ET > { > > { > BALTIMORE (Reuters) - Philip Berrigan, a former priest who was at the > { forefront of the American anti-war movement for the past four > { > decades, died late Friday, the Baltimore Sun reported. He was 79. > { > > { > Berrigan, died of liver and kidney cancer at Jonah House, a communal > { living facility for war resisters in the Baltimore suburb of > { > Catonsville, the newspaper reported on its Web site on Saturday. > { > > { > The former Roman Catholic priest who was ordained in 1955, gained national > { prominence when he led a group of Vietnam War protesters > { > who become known as the Catonsville Nine, in staging one of the most > { dramatic protests of the 1960s. > { > > { > The group, which included his brother Daniel, a Jesuit priest, doused > { homemade napalm on a small bonfire of draft records in a > { > Catonsville, Maryland, parking lot and ignited a generation of anti-war > { dissent. More recently he helped found the Plowshares > { > movement, whose members have attacked federal military property in > { anti-war and anti-nuclear protests and were then often > { > imprisoned. > { > > { > In a final statement released by his family, he said, ``I die with the > { conviction, held since 1968 and Catonsville, that nuclear > { > weapons are the scourge of the earth; to mine for them, manufacture them, > { deploy them, use them, is a curse against God, the human > { > family, and the earth itself.'' > { > > { > Berrigan persistently and publicly criticized the Vietnam War and U.S. > { foreign and domestic policy and his defiant protests led him > { > to serve some 11 years in jail and prison. > { > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 15:12:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: liberal interventionists... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" wanted to draw some attention to george packer's article in ~the new york times magazine~ today, "the liberal quandary over iraq," which raises in my view salient points re the status of liberal hawks (let's say) of various stripes... i think i find mself closest to the "secularist" position, as packer has it, of folks like leon wieseltier, probably owing in part to my mother's wwii experiences... other categories incl. "theorist" (michael walzer), "romantic" (christopher hitchens), "skeptic" (david rieff), and "idealist" (paul berman)---all of which appeal to me in various ways, albeit i find problems with each... worth reading... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 15:42:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu Subject: a call: a special issue of dANDelion around the work of Roy Kiyooka MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable dANDelion Magazine is currently seeking submissions for a special issue = around the work of Roy Kiyooka (1926-1994).=20 dANDelion is looking for creative and critical work that intersects with = the issues and communities around Roy Kiyooka's work. We are actively = seeking work that address problems of representation, culture, media and = performance, the document in photography and poetry, as well as = Kiyooka's own poetics, photography, fine art, performance, film, = pedagogy and cultural work.=20 Submissions desired:=20 - mixed-genre work=20 - B&W Art: (ie: photography, illustration, mixed-media)=20 - Prose: poetics, critical/theoretical, interviews, reviews and poetic = statements=20 - Poetry: experimental and linguistically innovative work, "long" &/or = serial forms, translation deadline: Jan 31st, 2003. Please address inquiries & submissions to:=20 dANDelion Magazine c/o department of English,=20 university of Calgary,=20 2500 university drive NW,=20 Calgary Alberta,=20 t2n 1n4,=20 Canada submissions are also welcome via email (as DOC or JPEG files) to: derek beaulieu 1339 19th ave nw calgary alberta canada t2m1a5 derek@housepress.ca www.housepress.ca 403-234-0336 (p) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 17:45:05 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: anti-war.... In either '69 or '70..early winter day like this..i had a bad acid trip...complete with Dalian spinning clock faces...and messianic fantasies ...see Stranger in a Strange land..so what i remember.. The day after the Cambodia bombings...down town Buffalo...narrow alleys and tear gas... The most gorgeous graduate student..Cal. apple blond surfing pie..who protesting the war had posed nude for her college grad photo & was expelled....a top ten rev. pose.. On the heights of the old campus..picking up stones and throwing them down on the poor working class irish italian and polish police kids....a stupid case of chase and hide..and the police lobbing back?? 4 Junior Members of the faculty..two i think from the Eng. Dept...one certainly Rbt Hass..arrested in a protest...made the front page of Buf. News..being placed in the police van..and the NYtimes... In an early protest..throwing a rock thru a bank window..i think they were pissy about some check thing... Never finishing a term out...for the first x years...making some impassioned anti-war diatribe ending with of all things a line from Henry James....and Bob telling me i was more radical than he... After a packed anti-war reading...downtown in the symphony space???...at some grad student house..in the small empty back room asking Denise Levertov to dance..shy as i was...the charming gap 'tween her teeth..& after opening a window cuz i coudn't breathe..Harry.. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 19:26:27 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "patrick@proximate.org" Subject: the state department collection Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I've been selected for the State Department Collection as well. I'm being serious. Hey, I'm more surprised than you are. Actually my selection might be due to a number of reasons, mainly that I'm a longtime close friend of the Powell family (we don't talk about My Lai at the dinner table, but Vernon Lake is surely a high watermark of pride). Well, that, and lately I've started a wonderfuly shallow relationship with that incredible poet, Billy Collins. Oh BC's a good guy; he'd laugh at being called shallow. Besides, I actually helped initiate the project. And so in a sense my inclusion targets the 20-35 yr old male jihadi market. BC's a genius, you know; he's thinking ahead. I'm down with all them DC motherfuckers! Word to the DC posse! Seriously. They're actually some really cool dudes. Take my word for it, or not. Like, whatever. I don't need you motherfuckers anymore. The DC Posse seem to dig my "back to roots authenticty" which is what Collins called it just last week. They want to show that they're down with anti-US sentiment and skaz, American style! Here's my poem they're going to publish, dedicated to all you motherfuckers out there, and you know who you are: Motherfuckers (after Sun Ra) if they push that button if they push that button and they want to push that button want to push that button they still talking about nuclear war middle eastern war they want to blast you so high in the sky you kiss yo' ass goodbye counterterrorist war if they push that button croneyist war carlyle group war shrubbery war chemical war petroleum war narcotic war criminal syndicate war they talking about anti-human war radiation mutation mutilation desperation school voucher nation eradication interests divination human commodification inspection sans investigation flesh atomization erratic articulation anthrax bomb sealed with a kill they're some motherfuckers don't you know if they push that button if they bush that put-on yo' ass gotta go tell us tyrone (they're some motherfuckers) i love you tyrone but yo' ass gotta go my ass gotta go what we gonna do about our ass what we gonna do about our ass what can you do without your ass they talking about al-qaeda war ultrasonic vibration desecration global depollenation spiteful mastication bowel invagination jihadi bloodlust elation crusader pustule ejaculation crimson obfuscation urban evacuation mass deportation crawford texas vacation dick cheney don't say "negotiation" monetary war environmental war media war ground war artillery war incendiary bomblet war anti-population war what we gonna do if our ass is turned to glue if they push that button its gonna blast you so high right in the sky so kiss yo' ass goodbye goodbye bye they some motherfuckers don't you know if you let them keep pushin' those buttons say hi to goodbye it's yo' ass in the sky so goodbye goodbye (so whatcha gonna do? get published by the state department too?) Patrick PS: motherfucker rhymes with sucker ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 19:42:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: antiwar poetry continued Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear M, I have never seen the Vietnam Veterans Memorial but would like too. Like all entrants to the contest, Maya Lin was presented with the problem of how to present all the names of the American missing and killed in action. This was the bottom line presented by the Veterans. I understood that the names are presented according to the dates they were killed , or reported missing. I know she writes about the arrangement as a way to facilitate people who served with them. I have no strong feelings about the work, barring an interest in how she describes it as a book, and what she describes as the "miracle" that it was made at all, and of course I'd like to see it. I am interested in her process and conceptualization in general, as exemplified by the Civil Rights Memorial, or the Langston Hughes Library, or the piece commemorating the registration of women at Yale (I think: I don't have my book here; in fact, it's not my book but the library's). As a matter of interest, I just got a book called "As Seen on Both Sides: American and Vietnamese Artists Look at the War (Indochina Arts Project and the William Joiner Foundation, Boston, MA, Distrib. U Mass Press, 1991), and I will take this discussion and your reflections into my reading of it. Mairead >>> mpalmer@JPS.NET 12/08/02 16:25 PM >>> I may be in the tiny minority, but I dislike the Vietnam memorial and have never considered it great art. To me the idea of indiscriminately mixing up the names of the dead - and only Americans, it should be noted, so the picture it represents is very one-sided and FAR from complete - is the wrong way to memorialize the people who died in this war. It places knowing butchers and involuntary draftees in proximity to each other without any kind of consideration of the relative value of each. It's a dubiously amoral piece in this regard and not the least bit anti-war that I can see. I also find its big stone blocks to be a form of mystification that ennobles war in a way by making it seem inscrutable and timeless. I hope I don't offend anybody by these comments, but I just wanted to speak out and add my own rather roughly hewn view of a work I frankly know little about and admire not at all. You may all choose to ignore me in scornful silence, which would be fine. -m ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 19:10:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joshua Wilson Subject: Baraka: The voice watching death with The Roots Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The new Roots Album "Phrenology" features a spoken word track by Amiri Baraka called "SOMETHING IN THE WAY OF THINGS (IN TOWN)" The liner notes: "The voice watching death that New Jersey Governor James E. McGreevey would love to silence.....but never could: Amiri Baraka" "Phrenology" came out last Tuesday. It's the sixth (by my count) record by the Philadelphia-based Hip-Hop group. The Baraka track is over 6 minutes long, unfortunately the lyrics aren't printed in the liner notes. The song marks the 100th track by The Roots. -josh _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 21:24:11 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: Re: Banned in the U.S., but coming soon to a foreign capital near you In-Reply-To: <000001c29def$4ec20d40$bc42c143@Dell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Ron Silliman writes: I Reply: How did Creeley end up in this article anyway? Did he write a piece as well? It all seems nothing but odd to me. But many things seem odd, I suppose. _JG --------------- JGallaher "How has the human spirit ever survived the terrific literature with which it has had to contend?" --Wallace Stevens ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 22:31:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: Banned in the U.S., but coming soon to a foreign capital near you In-Reply-To: <3DF3B87A.16693.2A3B5C34@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed _JG Yep, Creeley wrote an article. And, I find it a bit odd that Sven Birkerts has as well. I don't know what to make of it. --Ak At 09:24 PM 12/8/2002 -0600, you wrote: >Ron Silliman writes: > > > >I Reply: > >How did Creeley end up in this article anyway? Did he write a piece as >well? It all seems nothing but odd to me. But many things seem odd, I >suppose. > > _JG > >--------------- > >JGallaher > >"How has the human spirit ever survived >the terrific literature >with which it has had to contend?" >--Wallace Stevens ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 23:32:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jane Sprague Subject: Re: 580 Split call for submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Kristin, I recently submitted four poems to 580 Split. Two of these will be published in the next issue (Feb 2003) of Bird Dog magazine: "How to Jump Horses" and "Noun Called Witness". This is my immediate notification to you of the work being accepted elsewhere. I included two other poems in my query to you: "Disentangle" and "This Wife of Mine, She". These are still unpublished as of this date. Thank you for your attention in this matter. And thank you for your editorial generosity in accepting simultaneous submissions. Sincerely, Jane Sprague janesprague@clarityconnect.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kristin Palm" To: Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 8:47 PM Subject: 580 Split call for submissions > CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS > > poetry | prose | b/w photography > Postmark deadline: November 1, 2002 > > Not far from our office in Oakland, California, the 580 Split > is a jumble of ramps, overpasses and interchanges, where highways > cross, merge, intersect and branch out in every direction. The > Split ranks as one of the riskiest freeway interchanges to > negotiate in the country. 580 Split, an annual journal of arts > and literature, is both the convergence and divergence of many > roads-a place of risk and possibility. We publish innovative > prose and poetry and are open to well-crafted experimental and > traditional approaches. > > GUIDELINES: > > -->>Include cover letter with your name, address, phone and email; > submission titles; and biographical note of under 40 words. > Submissions not accompanied by an SASE will not be considered. > Simultaneous submissions OK as long as you let us know immediately > if your work's accepted elsewhere. No previously published or email > submissions. Please address your submission to Poetry Editor, Fiction > Editor, or Art Editor. Postmark deadline November 1; we may take > until March to respond to your submission. > -->>Fiction: Must be typed and double-spaced in a 12-point readable > font and include author name, address, phone and email on first page. > Submit up to 2 stories. Maximum length: 5,000 words. > -->>Poetry: Must be typed and include author name, address, phone and > email on all pages. Submit up to 5 poems. No maximum length, but long > poems must really be stellar. Translations welcomed if accompanied with > permission of author/rights holder. > -->>Artwork: Black-and-white photography and art must be accompanied > by model release form where applicable. Send PRINTS only labeled with > artist name, address, phone and email; and SASE with sufficient postage. > > 580 Split > P.O. Box 9982 > Oakland, CA 94613-0982 > five80split@yahoo.com > www.mills.edu/580Split/ > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 17:47:42 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" Subject: Re: Bill Millett Anyone There Know the Cranky Yank? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear Richard, Oh, I remember him! Whatever happened to him? An appalling poet, who just wouldn't shut up. Only interested in himself. I remember feeling helpless--either I just walk away, or I just walk away. Wystan -----Original Message----- From: richard.tylr [mailto:richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ] Sent: Monday, 9 December 2002 2:48 a.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Bill Millett Anyone There Know the Cranky Yank? > > > > > > > > Bill Millett was from the United States (came mid to late 60s > > I think) and > > he knew some well known poets in the US: I also saw his > > photograph in a book > > about The Beats. he said he managed Little Richard in NY. > > Now he was in the > > airforce and his big thing was his passion against the > > nuclear proliferation > > and also he had a big "agony" (I think he was quite genuine > > and genuinely > > tormented by various injustivces he saw and or imagined) re > > Hiroshima and > > Nuclear (potential) war and so on): he was a "cranky Yank" but a > > humanist:but in the late 60s here in Auckland new Zealand he > > had a poster > > shop (psychelic posters of things like Hendrix I suppose and > > maybe Malcolm X > > or Marx or Mao or whatever: but he was an interesting > > character (infact my > > ex wife worked for him in that shop when she was quite young) > > now he had a > > lot of energy and introduced a lot of new ideas into the "scene" in > > Auckland just as hippies were starting here as everywhere: he was also > > astute with a lot of practical things and new how to fix cars, and do > > lighting and so on: he may have been one of the first to > > introduce disco > > lights here...or he worked in that field: the down side of > > Bill (I think he > > hailed form NY and he mentioned he knew Shapiro is a name I > > recall) was that > > he would (eg) do a "reading" of his "Jesus Christ was A > > Black Man" or his > > posters which were in front of the audience as he read: and > > was often very > > greatly apreciated...but the next day (after I had him on as > > "Wild Bill > > Millett" in Panmure here (a working class suburb) where we > > got a lot of > > people (and as I said he was brilliantly recieved) but the > > next day he rang > > me and went on for an 1 1/2 hours about all the negative things of his > > reading!! When he had been a brilliant success...! > > > > He was writing an opera but the musican involved (a Belgian > > who was very > > good on the guitar (classical I think only)) could never get > > a decision on > > the music: (Bill would drive him near mad talking for hours > > about it and > > other things) it was never good enough or something....so he > > was a character > > and probably a phenomenom and his press ( on which he produced an > > extraordinary book "Things of Green, Things of Iron" which > > was hand made on > > his big press anad has many very great NZ artists in...I > > acquired a copy of > > it but its NFS its too unique: but it has to be seen to be > > appreciated (this > > done way before computers were easily available) was used to > > publish poetry > > books for The hard Ecko Press here and in those days the > > present owner of a > > very large second hand bookshop (The Hard to Find - they're > > on abebooks,com) > > was involved I believe in the early days in a printing > > venture..(.but I'm > > not sure of the details).... I just wondered if anyone in NY > > or the States > > recalls Bill Millett. > > > > Richard Taylor. > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 00:21:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jane Sprague Subject: whoops MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry for the public display of private correspondence. Please disregard my previous post. Jane ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 18:27:04 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: antiwar poetry continued MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I dont know it, naturally, as I am in NZ: but I know what you're saying: over here they make a fuss about the lost in the two Great Wars and there are also Vietnam War and Korean War veterans. I dont know why they do this ...I do know they're ...well I do ....its the honouring of the dead and so on and I think that eg the war of the US and the Allies versus Japan and Germany were "just" wars but the Vietnam War is a dubious one:there have been movies of course not all of which - in fact Born on the 4th of July from memory is basically anti war ...being anti war per se though is not enough: there are just and unjust wars... But, I know a guy believes wars are not only always to be with us but are neccessary: somehow he has a theory of war that makes it a kind of "test": so as to war he thinks war will always be with us: is (for him )a natural condition...he has a "vested interest" in war as he collects war books which means I have a "vested "interest on keeping in his good books!! (As I sell books to him - however: he is studying history and sociology an Uni so maybe some of the more liberal ideas may rub of on him). But thinking about what MWP (you) and others have said its strange how some people can have such a great enthusiasm for War!? Even the guy I mentioned: him especially - as he was shot twice a close range by a bloke with a shot gun and nearly died (when he was playing around with somne woman in the US and the ex husband or the husband turned up ina military uniform and with a gun) (I've seen the scars and his story is so vivid I believe it): but my my experience of life teaches me to avoid things that hurt (not all things as one has to "engage" with life I aknowledge that): now that may be "cowardice" but if so then I have to admit to it....I think it takes courage to critique when one is actually a very nervous and sensitive person...when one is what might be called (on the face of it ) a "wimp".... And I dont think its unpatriotic to critique one's Government or the fact of war or even to propose some sort of "radical' action be taken: albeit there's always a doubt: but I dont see that war eg against Iraq is even remotely of any value...and even the so-called "War against Terrror" is really what used to be the "War aginst Communism" transformed twisted and sublimated so to speak. It pays to be skeptical of Governments and people who want wars I feel. And what do people think of this guy who believes that war will always be and not only that: that War is a neccessity of the human condition? Some of his arguments for it (albeit they are a bit simplistic) make a kind of sense...but know that I dont agree with him just to sell books (!) (well I do sometimes agree just to stop some crazy and quite heated arguments etc ) but eg I got him a book about Wilfred Owen and tried to encourage him to read Pat Barker's marvelous series on the first world war...maybe this pro war thing is part of his "macho" pysch he cant let go of.... but I recall being fascinated by guns and war as a small boy but as I went through adolescence I was able to see that war was actually something in which people got hurt. I wonder how much of Freud etal is in that component of a person: that War both fascinates and repels: and what is the psychology of the present War Mongers (inside and outside the US) (apart from considerations of greed etc). Another guy who seemed to have a vested interest in War and wars was Peter Arnett the NZr/American who won the Pulitzer Prize for journalism...(became an US citizen) hence even as he is "objective" one senses that he too could say something like "well, yes, its possible we could negotiate here: but the answer is as the President has said to attack uysing smart bombs etc" (as in Iraq in 1990) as deep down the adrenalin-power-ambition-excitement pr whatever was pushing him to wherever there were wars: and he did some "good" in his reporting (he was at one stage the only US reporter covering the War as Iraq only trusted CNN at the time): but one wonders about these "heroic " figures eg in NZ there was a Maori soldier who killed many Germans but the guy later went beserk with a knife and killed a man, and his daughter is a well known (in national politics (Donna Awatere))and very feisty and hot-blooded (quite a nasty kettle of fish I think she is)) politician and her story of her home life makes one wonder if she is actually human!! (some people I think live amongst so much of this "glory" and domestic violence they become irreparabley programmed toward agressive "solutions" to problems)...I feel that remembrance and reverence for the dead can too easily turn into a Celebration of War. I'm dubious of all those Returned Soldier organisations...and like Wilfred Owen am dubious of the Glory of War. A counter-example is Keith Douglas who loved war: his poetry is some of the most extraordinary in have ever read: had he lived he may have become acclaimed as Britain's greatest poet (and he had been able to "develop" formally): but it was his enthusaism for war which eventually cost him his life.... A lot of questions unanswered. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MWP" To: Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 10:21 AM Subject: Re: antiwar poetry continued > I may be in the tiny minority, but I dislike the Vietnam memorial and have > never considered it great art. To me the idea of indiscriminately mixing up > the names of the dead - and only Americans, it should be noted, so the > picture it represents is very one-sided and FAR from complete - is the wrong > way to memorialize the people who died in this war. It places knowing > butchers and involuntary draftees in proximity to each other without any > kind of consideration of the relative value of each. It's a dubiously amoral > piece in this regard and not the least bit anti-war that I can see. I also > find its big stone blocks to be a form of mystification that ennobles war in > a way by making it seem inscrutable and timeless. > > I hope I don't offend anybody by these comments, but I just wanted to speak > out and add my own rather roughly hewn view of a work I frankly know little > about and admire not at all. You may all choose to ignore me in scornful > silence, which would be fine. > > > -m > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 21:38:22 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Why Daniel Davidson's ~Culture~ is not political poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Perhaps a reply of this length would be better off submitted to somewhere like Jacket, but (hey, there's always potlatch)--- Gary Sullivan's dare, "neither reader had really read what he was writing terribly closely", was a fair challenge and pretty much the case,--- so I read through the first 45 pp. of the on-line Davidson .pdf and went back to re-read ~Culture~ from cover to cover, this time paying attention (!), underlining, cross-questioning. And finding it a much more agreeable experience, by finally managing to ~by-pass its misrepresentative marketing.~ My initially perhaps cursory reading of ~Culture~ may have come down to a reaction to its packaging or "false advertising," as it were. Initially, with the boojum of political poetry very much on my mind, I responded to the SPD catalog's slanting of the book as political, and went in search of it for that reason. Very quickly, I could not ---beyond the broad Language Poetry apologetics of asyntacticalism as revolution (a dogma to which I am sympathetic)--- identify its political resonances; and this omission went on page after page. Becoming impatient with the book for not satisfying the promise its supporters had delivered, I gave up quickly. They sold me political poetry but when I unwrapped it, it was pure poetry. I was also distrustful, reading the Afterword first, of how large a role the "Breakdown" software that Davidson sometimes used played, described as "an automatic cut & paste generator, taking text and spewing it out, in reordered syntax, endlessly". Where I may be sympathetic to such mechanical prostheses with someone like an Alan Sondheim or their non-automated versions as used by a Mac Low, because the works foreground that very robotics,--- I'm uncomfortable about "wasting" my critical receptivity (reading) on something that plays now-you-see-it/now-you-don't with its own methodologies (and, for example, found my opinion of his book revised downward by reading Brian Kim Stefans' readme interview, where he admitted to extensive use of mechanisms in a book I'd previously, gullibly read as authorial): my Turing Test scores just aren't high enough. I can read my gas meter if I want to read machinery. The on-line .pdf (whose contents are completely different from the Krupskaya book) was quickly prompting an antipathy in me similar to my first mishap with ~Culture.~ The .pdf, unlike the book, however, definitely contains poetry with an explicit/content-based politics, ---although a politics that I find to be pallid, strident, clichéd, and underdeveloped. But let me put that to the side; the book, or at least significant sections of it, became newly rewarding, so it's better to look at how good Davidson can be (and how wrong, although well-intentioned, I think Friedlander and Krupskaya [and to a lesser degree Gary Sullivan, who also offers other inroads: the Iraqi buttons are immensely distracting, though] were about what's worthwhile about it.) (I confess to having, currently, skipped over the opening poem, "Product.") My reaction, frustrated at the struggle it takes to salvage Davidson's very exquisite passages and sensitivities from a sort of contamination by imported influences (and a certain kind of numb blandness he occasionally made no effort to resist, in the .pdf) could be summarized as: How A Good Poet Can Be Ruined By Late 20th Century Poetry Trends. Davidson writes only long poems: "Product," 20 pages; "Bureaucrat, my love," 40; "Anomie," 26; and, in the .pdf, poems 14, 21, and 20 pages. (...which partially stoked my impatience reading the .pdf. Within its long poems, Davidson favored certain serial or modular forms, ---prose alternating with verse, the use of text-box side-bars, numbered sections of italicized one-word verses followed by regular stanzas--- so that if I didn't particularly care for a device the first few times around, I felt burdened confronting an even lengthier "ad nauseam" of them. With the .pdf material, I felt a disinterest akin to ~boredom,~ as each non sequitur was promising only the next hairpin turn. Overstimulation leads to anomie.) The book's poem "Bureaucrat, My Love" strikes me its "the best," despite its deceptive title. (My reading, from here on, elides the boundaries between separate poems and reads ~Culture~ all of one piece.) Yes, there were, occasionally but ~only~ occasionally, traces of an identifiable politique ("spirits of deregulation", in the sense that Reagan made "deregulation" a buzz-word, or the fire arms of "the handed revolver" [p. 33]; the monetarism that so plagues the .pdf: "shifting values and wealth"; "armies of mere ideological coincidence" and "stamps of crime" [34]; "each citizen's perfect cure" [36]; etc.) but I found those blips rapidly receding in significance as the meat of Davidson's "real" poetic concerns took over entirely. And he could be quite weak at politics: "the owners assume ownership" [118]. Just as fragmentary as my quotations of them, those fleeting glimpses of erstwhile politics are embedded splinter-like in a larger whole that has other, more compelling concerns. Politics may have remained somehow undigested or "split-off" in Davidson. The poetry in ~Culture~ is not, per se, political by any means. Its strengths are that it is (1) ~philosophical,~ philosophical to the point of ontological; (2) it surrenders to rhapsodies of lyricism so unabashed that they verge upon sentimentality; (3) it's preoccupied by matters of ~belief~ that bespeak a near-religious transcendence; and there's a good return to "non-political" themes such as (4) dreams, (5) our physical embodiment and desire in "the body", "skin", etc (although "The Body", the body-as-narrative and so on, was very much a consciously politicized art object in the '90s, after its representation became the focus of the battle against the NEA), and (Addenda) a sense of separation or blockade (alienation?) epitomized in his concept of "distance" (glimpsed in the figure of "walls" and the doors that lead through them). Each of these Davidsons has to be looked at, to see how claims about Davidson's political poetry recede out of proportion. (1) THE PHILOSOPHICAL DAVIDSON He re-visits big, macrocosmic concepts, almost Wallace Stevens-style, such as "world", often very beautifully (conjoining one abstraction, "world," with another, infinity: "Cast an eye into the infinite world" [38]; sometimes making the idea tangible by apprehending or juxtaposing it to the sense of touch, as in: "The world opens onto a shell and awaits its skin" [57], "the shape hammers away / and now we are at the center of the world link palms and predict" [58], or "the world wraps completely, / my body" [110]; "to withdraw from the world would not beg in or begin" [57]; "conditions favor another world sounding this rhyme of semitones" [60]), --- but it has to be kept clear that that sense of "world" is not on the same experiential plane as, say, a ~world power~ as a political horizon, or the politics of New World Order: it's not experienced at all; it's either theorized or rhapsodized. Even where not named verbatim, this cosmological intellection of his is there, but never mundane: "plastic multiple universes" [39]. This abstract idea of "world" perhaps reaches its best, most nuanced and autobiographical summarization in the line on the second-to-last page: Make the words of many into a world of one thing. The ~genre~ of that ~idee fixe,~ again, is not political but has more to do with, say, Schopenhauer's philosophical tome, ~The World as Will and Representation~ ("the world is insufficient but has its place or I close my eyes" [53]). Rather than historical materialism, what he pauses over is "the real in the imaginary" [30]. What a remarkable, meaningful line, and how true: the public, collective entity of language ("the words of many") narrows down to claustrophic monomania ("a world of one thing"); signification, he implies, is always a case of obsession. Indeed, the philosophical for him is a virtual ~habitation,~ and it operates as a surrogate locale or location, someplace you can live: "In slang terms, let's face the town of another philosophy" [77]; "a reminder of the distant home of thought" [115]. (2) THE LYRICAL DAVIDSON Well, beauty's another thing altogether, and you almost have to sit back and drop jaw and all critical pretenses and just let it wash over you, he gets so positively romanticist: and then the complexity shakes itself loose and I am repeated and the fallen air is reaped of its clay [54] (This peculiar notion of a person being "repeated," ---a very different, mysterious and metaphysical reiteration than the political repetition seen in Marxist ideology about the social order "reproducing itself"--- recurs, as though lives came in triplicate: "Applying a scale of desire, the woman is repeated" [86].) More lyrical euphoria: lights dim and glow this standing where the shadow of falls has always been a distant gleam an endless myth [60] Blood bores me and all the stones holding still close to the water's edge. [61] Why, the very air derives from short gasps. [95] Late yesterday a scarcity of evening light, as flowers roam in dust [96] His lyricism does what lyricism is good for: meaning, implication and content are compressed into a condensation so intact that paraphrase or interpretation can barely extract its sub-text. Lyricism tends toward crystalization. It must be sung, not understood. the resulting bed turned down, remote, warmed and set upon a further star [97] ...the courage it takes to revert to such unapologetic poeticisms ("a further star")! The gamble, though, is always that quasi-archaic poeticisms bring with them a thoroughly resolved and conventionalized emotional connotation, that is, sentimentality: As touch out-paces the dim outline, hands grow lucid and charmed. ... The grey-green dusk of morning presents an offering [103] But he's not in the least ashamed of such indulgence. The book ends on a tremolo violin crescendo of lines whose melodrama rivals the line "Here and there, in cold pockets / Of rememberance, whispers out of time" (the conclusion of "Self-Portrait in a Convex Mirror") in their endearing raptures of weepiness (which I like very much): the related, silvered pastures of moonlight the instant passing of a face in the distance if tomorrow, or yesterday, or barely out of sight. This is what we brought to take with us then couldn't find. Even then the wasted, watered landscape grows faint, constellations seen to glow when looked at from beneath another side. This lyricism throughout ~Culture~ functions as a departure into The Sublime, with all its many definitions, principally a zone of feeling in equilibrium that is immune or oppositional to the think-think-think passions of his philosophical side. (See Addendum on "absorption", below.) (3) DAVIDSON THE TRUE BELIEVER He doesn't in the least blink away from (avoid) a very ~counter-political~ vocabulary of religion, and a Judaeo-Christianized one at that ---"grace," "litany," "sacrifice," the "offering" that "morning presents" (above), "impenitence," prayer, "sanctuary," sacred music, etc.: "faces emerge in a state of grace" [53]; "absorbing moments / before a deepening litany anonymous / as though we haven't looked anymore / as the sacrifice begins" [54]; "impenitence", with all its attendant redemptions [55]; "gentleness that cold sand prays to and releases" [58]; "Between named distance and the sanctuary of fable" [73]; "rock-hymns" [78]. These vestiges of ~faith~ that are operative throughout ~Culture~ may take as their object desiderata other than theology's, but the underlying mental (or spiritual) action remains the same, one of belief; the direct object changes, but the verb is the same: "Belief in nouns walk free" [96]; "unassigned disengaged / unbelieving running fingers over its surface" [59]; "pearl of belief" [99] (~vide~ the Christological figure of "the pearl of great worth" as a metaphor for faith). The residue of creed shows so much through the surface, that ~Culture~ has motifs of hymnology that it revises, the way Ives' Third Symphony is filled with old hymn tunes: "Mine eyes have seen the glory or what submits" [70] (original verse: "Mine eyes have seen the glory / ~Of the coming of The Lord."~) (Inasmuch as the same hymn may in fact be an anthem, The Battle Hymn of The Republic, the example would be ambiguous in favor of whether the material were religious/fideistic or political,--- except that similar latent content reappears elsewhere in ~Culture~ as unambiguously part of the ~belief~-paradigm: "belief / handles its sword". ~Vide~ "His terrible swift sword", from the same hymn). (4) DAVIDSON THE DREAMER It's essential to the rationalism of political consciousness that it be, first and foremost, ~conscious,~ that is, at the very least ~awake.~ But ~Culture~ is a groggy sort of book that continually keeps nodding off on itself. It falls asleeps and revives and slumbers back into a deeper dream. And one does not speak of political dreaming: even where those dreams are embraced with an ironic twinge of sloganeering, as in: "Everyday living through dreams" [40]; "I woke myself from a dream and sleep memories" [57]; "In a fond moment of memory do we all dream the same dreams" [47]; "the impenitence fashioning itself into its own / dream a future of color and shape" [55]; "In the morning dreams awaken with you" [60]; "Again and again in the red light no dream left in pieces" [62]; "I walked last night to another city, into an other room / ...a dream... / an endless patterning" [ellipses his, 106]; "sustenance, as an unsustainable waking" [118]; "I am awakened without sleeping" [34]; as part of a psychology: "radiant wisdom, grief, sleep" [98]; "the smallest particle at sleep" [111]. (Am I misinterpreting his use of dreams and sleep, and is it the inverse of what I'm saying? Are the dreams in ~Culture~ a ~bad~ somnolence that stands in contrast to some healthy rigor of realpolitik thought? I can't see how. Regardless, they function very importantly, as sleep does, as nocturne, as the lapses between consciousness, but not, I think, as an existential nothingness, since sleep in ~Culture~ is consistently punctuated by the alterity of dream life which Davidson remembers "fond"-ly (above).) Sleep is so central an action that the long poem "Bureacrat, My Love" ends with the line: "doubtless circles around as if waking" [64]. (5) THE BODY AND DESIRE In opposition to Davidson's stratospheric philosphical thought, he remains mindful of its irreduceable opposite, the body and the body's sense of touch ("running fingers over its surface" [59]). It is often represented by metonymy through the agency of individual body parts (hands, etc.), but its weight establishes its imponderability through the full, undifferentiated presence of "body" ~qua~ "body" throughout the poetry. Sometimes the answer that might lie within that body is interrogated out, to test if it is truly an element of The Ideal and not of the real ("if my hand touches the plaster dress / has it already touched its perfect body?" [57]), and sometimes that body is carefully, almost supernaturally attended to, apprehended and even ~heard~ through a kind of synaesthesia ("Listen to the film in your hands" [61]). It does not remain a barrier to the imagination nor does it succumb to barriers, in a kind of super-human walk-through-walls/eye-of-the-needle motion ("Outside of my body I can move through almost any opening" [52]). If, in instances, the body appears lost in a neutered bureaucratese ("my body, compensations, procedures" [119]), it's invoked just as well in hypostasized, beatific illumination ("hand-held as lights without bodies" [115]) or it disappears and is not seen at all ("where the body goes into hiding" [49]). To the arguably slight, slight degree, however, that ~Culture~ still may also retain a minor theme of politics, as seen in agents of politics such as a police force ("the guard drops from gravity" [118], despite that this example happens to find any such power politics represented as a weak, overpowered force), that dream-like police force meets the body not through violence but in semi-eroticized confrontation with the body's ultimate nakedness: "Officer strips the body, then the shore" [87] ("body" retains the secondary meaning of "corpse", which could lead to an alternative interpretation about mortality rather than eros); when that body is not completely stripped, political force still impacts upon it by seeking to disturb and enter into its ~clothes~ ("All passengers are noted and searched" [43]). This theme of "body" is, then, the antithesis to politics, since it would be what politics tries to subdue or denude. Almost like a more quiescent distant relative of Artaud's "body without organs", it is so much the kinaesthetic sense organ in its entirety that it exists as one vast cutaneous surface of skin ("Then is the enemy that skin does and does not" [70]; "How beautiful the skin works" [74]; "I complete my skin" [82]) or a magicalized inner network of capillaries and arteries ("light enters into the veins" [113]; "Imagine resting, stately veins / brushed against the surface" [116]). However multiplicitous its purposes in ~Culture,~ the body, in the end, may be serving foremost as a ~measure of all things~ ("zero through one / about the size of a hand" [58]), a yardstick that gives the proportions of everything else ("devise and repeat / the length of scale, each skin" [102]). {I do not find the alternative, morbid possible reading of the word "body" to be operative in ~Culture,~ because it seems everywhere counterbalanced by the vital, appetitive drive of ~desire.~ Indeed, the two are sometimes unequivocally conjoined, if in a slightly counterintuitive order ("the substance of desire / follows hazards of skin" [35]), or the two words function almost synonymously ("the length of scale, each skin", and "Applying a scale of desire" [86]). It can be a sort of currency or fiduciary system of exchange in itself ("moves desire between them" [91]); this interstitial in-betweenness of desire is a terrain of intermediation, a dividing-line ("this map expects to cross desire" [96]). Unlike the stasis that inheres in the alternative reading of the word, Davidson's "desire" flickers by very quickly and kinetic ("Each version / displays its organ. Its blank light, / the rapid desire" [88]). THEATER, NOT POLITICS The central point I'm belaboring here has been that anything that might have appeared lacking in my previous assessment of ~Culture~ as "hermetic politics" is, for one, all too amply demonstrable by in fact going ahead and reading the book "terribly closely", since much more elaborated and mutually cohesive dimensions emerge out of the poetry. Were I in fact in error, ---a counter-argument that would basically have to ignore the evidence of the book itself (how more terribly closely has anyone else read it?),--- or how I arrived at that preliminary, more cursory conclusion was the result, I daresay, of how the para-literary (blurbs, marketing) can be at cross-purposes with the literary, and proceed out of assumptions or information about the ~person~ to the neglect of the poet. In defense of that para-literary apparatus, even in its misdirection, though, there may have been other hints in the blurb on the back of the book and the SPD/Kruspskaya that someone else would have found spoke louder to them than the reiterated promotion of the book on the basis of its putative but difficult-to-back-up politics. Gary Sullivan also wrote: "He approached the book almost like a method actor". And Davidson himself wrote: "An excited theatre fondles transition" [75]; and he wrote: "act falling into artifact theater / invisible" [29]; and, transposing and omitting Bergman's "Cries", he wrote: "whispers and theaters" [63]. It was all play-acting. It's just that somebody else was more taken in by a face-to-face persona, whereas this reading is based on his writing. If politics drains out of ~Culture~ upon closer inspection, as I think it does here as the stronger, more introverted, poetic dimensions of the book come forward, ---these interpretations are consistent in their all being variations on the ~contemplative~--- that is not to say that the book came utterly without any valid interpretive key or that his loyal executors had somehow betrayed the work, necessarily, by re-casting it in an unbalanced, ungrounded projection based more on autobiography than on the literature of the book's actual contents: that may just be the inevitable distortion that results from all ~ad hominem~ criticism that concentrates more closely on the author and the biographical than upon the text itself. Equally upon re-examination, it was only ~one note~ of Friedlander's blurb that Krupskaya seems to have seized upon in portraying ~Culture~ as political poetry: "Politics for Dan Davidson was . . .", "action undreamt by the revolutionaries he admired". Friedlander also picks up on the same "method actor" theme of Sullivans's: "Not street theater, but the street theatricalized . . . a role". Books don't sell any more if you promote them as ~drama~? I do not think that I am minimalizing the vestigial evidence of political consciousness that can be found in ~Culture~, and hardly in favor of some covert agenda about the political. To the contrary, let me be over-scrupulous at the faintest hint: The fragments may be there (a couple of times, a theme of history, or factories; "armies of mere ideological coincidence" [34]; "yellow bureaucratese" [39]; "statistical evidence", "another satisfied customer" [43]; politics as summed up in law, ----although a law, oddly, associated with the sartorial: "Everyone violates the law in plain clothes" [46], and "each fossil or play of law or cloth to wear" [61]; "I live to the fullest extent of the law" [77]; and his poverty and his aversion to money re-cast as economics: "I pay rent to a man of impeccable etiquette" [39]; "Each of my friends has amassed a supply of wealth" [45]; "foreign debt" [100]) but those bits and pieces are all too often only a vacated verbal ~residue~ of the political, "bureacratese" without any actual bureaucrat ---and without any true activist,--- that appears at the most asyntactical junctures and, consequently, at those points where '90s poetic trends leave meaning and intention at its most unverifiable. Sure, I see, here and there, the trace of a sort of ~scum~ of politics that floats on the surface of ~Culture.~ But it isn't, to my ear, ~integrated~ into the composition as a sufficient structural device for it to be read as any mainstay or dominant axis of its architecture that can be interrelated to the other building blocks that are brought into relief here. It's a loose shingle in the building, not a cross-beam. {If my reading also seems to be overlooking the portrait of the "suffering" Davidson as a dead-end that the work is supposed to have prefigured, it's not because he was some sort of one-dimensional poet too untalented to have thoroughly included explorations of pain into his magnum opus, at times quite plaintively and pianissimo ("a breaking that can't hurt / a barely discernible scar" [37]), nor one so untalented as to allow private angst to ~overpower and eclipse~ all other directions, nor to consign that pain to mere post-modern stylistic repression ("The codified systems of silence, hidden by definition" [86]). The book's numerous modalities include Existential insights ("the fresh air-stinging void" [100]), at times with unbridled, Dionysiac vengence ("what can only be ripped apart / in tender, supple cuts and pieces" [117]). I understate that teleology of reading a death in reverse backward onto the life it coincides with (or I do not in fact at all find it as a sub-text in ~Culture~) because the book that I've detailed here is so versatile, philharmonic, and well-articulated that it's too healthy for that; it's larger than any single, fatal symptomatology (just as it's larger than political poetry) and I can't imagine any sound-minded, poetry-literate psychologist having read it in advance and found some sort of terminal case warning signal imbedded in it. {But Davidson appears to have been shrewd enough, too, to foresee that "The offending self slips into rumor" [30], that anything art strategically leaves out will have to be filled back in by some future ~Lives of The Poets.~ He teases, in a meta- moment, at how his very method somewhat precludes summarization into the reductively personal: So all this talk adds to the idea of the encyclopedia seems to be a refraining index never having localized any subject or what personal? [40] but the joke he makes of that lacuna reveals a wry attitude that's quite different from post-modernity's righteous, anti-Humanistic conviction about its self-censorship. Maybe because his method was realistic enough to anticipate (a simulacrum of) the personal as an unavoidable accident that, willy-nilly, always comes with language: To speak is to appear as a continuum, linking resemblances in an apparent world. [81]} Certainly, there is a fragile, tinkling "Handle With Care" breakability that can be heard in the background of ~Culture~, intermittently, the way crystal will ring out if a singer's voice hits too high a note ("boundary of glass" [29]; "Ingenue, is this your heart of glass?" [77]; "Occasional death, trait, hint of glass" [95]; "Her house is made of glass and steel" [109]), but that's what's ~good~ and artistic about ~Culture.~ It's not grounds for commitment. All these parameters of his poetry evade the political, because they aim to descend to meditate upon a rumbling, unlegislatable level ~below~ the terra firma of the body politic: Beneath the city, fire, and the cool tunnels it looked like some weird horror film [114] ------------------------------------------------------- [ADDENDA] DISTANCE Space, while sometimes concretely inventoried in ~Culture~ as domestic space ("the bed floor curtain window door room / what is the language of this place?" [116]), also carries abstracted resonances of the poetical-metaphysical Faraway, a Beyond expressed as "distance". It re-appears variously, a nowhere out of Bachelard. That distance can still be subordinated under the domination of language ("Between ~named~ distance and the sanctuary of fable" [73], my italics) rather than apprehended geographically, hence, a sign. He can be glib about it, again recapturing distance in language, this time the language of a pun ("What a distance a day makes" [73], playing on the Esther Phillips disco hit lyric), while still tweaking undertones of left-over meaning such as (grammatological?) ~difference~. Davidson's distance can carry something of the exile of "stranger in a strange land" ("Foreign, distant, the long version spring of neutrality" [101]), and there is a loneliness about it, a solitude agitated by the accelerated loss of the other and the gaze ("the instant passing of a face in the distance" [119], although faces are not legible from a distance; "Rated in the distance below a coming measure, a look" [79]). Indeed, this powerful motif of distance is intricately linked with other core preoccupations of his, that of a pensive, philosophical-contemplative life ("the distant home of thought" [115]) and themes of his such as his elusive, doubling sense of repetition ("Repeated in the far distance" [96]). The political is understood to be an arena of action, and where it is not, inaction becomes a passivity resulting from oppression or apathy; but this ever-present distance in Davidson's imagination lessens or eliminates the instances and salience of action, not necessarily out of some lumpen impotence, though, but out of speculative states of rest and repose ("At distance, / more than shape or act, . . . / . . . offering hands in reflection and ease" [98]). Where, rarely, architecture interposes itself to block and interrupt the tides of that distance, it is symbolic of impasse, estoppages ("Each of us blurs before our own walls" [45]) that are so strong in their definiteness that they render ~us~ indistinct, the object betraying the subject. It is unclear whether those blockades have any route of passage built into them, and even if so, if those passageways would only anticipate their shutting ("the doors would close there / are no doors" [57]), stated as a paradox. Which may be why, earlier, he has to jettison his body to get through such openings: they're very narrow ("a small crack in the door" [113]). These doors leading through distances don't behave as entrances or exits. They're more a form of hide-&-seek ("He disappears behind a door that he enters into view" [50]). __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 21:40:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: ADDENDUM: Absorption MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii FURTHER OBSCURE PHILOSOPHIZING: ABSORPTION (Did Bernstein's essay "Artifice of Absorption" mean anything to Davidson?) That strange concept of ~repetition~ of self or others ("I am repeated") is only one of several inscrutable, private concepts that fuel ~Culture.~ I do not mean to portray his philosophical side as the popular caricature of philosophizing as a cold intellectual pursuit; Laura Riding Jackson said about herself that, if Auden was a poet of history, she would be one of philosophy, and Davidson, when his poetry is strong, also meets ideas from the standpoint of the philosopher-~poet,~ picturesquely, leaving them in their mystery (there is a weak streak to some of his writing, though, where the poetry drains out of his attempt at art totally, as in the Jenny Holzer-isms in the .pdf file). Its meaning eludes me, but another arcane principle that his personal universe operates on is ~absorption.~ Absorption is not an aspect of the possible or real, though: when the thing undergoing absorption is not itself another abstraction, such as measurement or time ("questions imagine its opposite absorbing the lengths of encounter" [53]; "stray of a quiet stare absorbing moments" [54]), then it simply defies reality and involves an other-than-human surrealism ("Buildings that animals absorb / penetrate anyone" [29]). A world of absorption would be a literally fluid one. In both cases, then, it is a property of the central philosophical imagination that drives him: absorption is a Davidsonian fantasy that is carried out by ~thought,~ and that is carried out upon various mannequin-like figures missing people left behind ("she approximates a statue that thinking absorbs and / disgorges" [58]; "Those brilliant figures track to the left, absorbed" [98]). Enigmatic usages of his like those may not be able to be resolved. He may have been a person (poet) capable of pivoting on unknowns. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 18:54:47 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Bill Millett Anyone There Know the Cranky Yank? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wystan. he was "appalling" in a sense, but when you study his work on the page and think about him "in totum" I'm not so sure: but you are right that he was melodramatic..wherther appalling is the right word...old (obvioulsy he wasnt always that old) Bill was actually though an extraordinary character and quite sincere: but he died of an asthmatic attack in 1998 I think it was. I think if you studied "Things of Iron and Things of Green" carefully you would see that in some ways the interests of Bill and Alan Loney coincide (the interest in printing and the visual and typography etc) although I would say that Loney of course is major force in poetry in NZ but in "Things of Iron.." Bill uses a mixture of rhetorc and prose and comment centred on Hiroshima (in some ways in indirectly remds me of Ted Berrigan)...but his poetry ranges form what is clearly "overkill": to "direct talking and then he quotes forom people he met at Hiroshima: I would dispute that he was appalling in the sense that a lot of "political poets" are: it would be like someone looking at your poetry and saying "he's appalling, he doesnt rhyme" or "that's not poetry...its too flat and" so on...but the book is hard to get and if you were "exposed to Bill at the wrong time - you were eg a much better reader than Bill ..or "better" is not the right term, you and he were as different as chalk and cheese and I enjoyed you reading and also Bill...but sometimes he was "too much" ...but NOT always: his style somehow suited what he we was so passionate about: true he was an egotist and often "wouldnt shut up" and in many respects had his "down side" as we all do: but I think he also had some great qualities: I think some people were put of of by his "cranky " personality ...but on balance I liked and respected Bill, and his passionate diatribes against war etc. I knew him when I had lost interest in poetry and was "into" street protesting and politics etc(about 1970) and he had a shop the top of Mt Eden Road. he was also a friend of a friend (Martin Leo) who initiated the ivestigation into the release of the French terrorists by David Lange...Many people knew Bill: a good man I feel. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" To: Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 5:47 PM Subject: Re: Bill Millett Anyone There Know the Cranky Yank? > Dear Richard, > Oh, I remember him! Whatever happened to him? An appalling > poet, who just wouldn't shut up. Only interested in himself. I remember > feeling helpless--either I just walk away, or I just walk away. > Wystan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: richard.tylr [mailto:richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ] > Sent: Monday, 9 December 2002 2:48 a.m. > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Bill Millett Anyone There Know the Cranky Yank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill Millett was from the United States (came mid to late 60s > > > I think) and > > > he knew some well known poets in the US: I also saw his > > > photograph in a book > > > about The Beats. he said he managed Little Richard in NY. > > > Now he was in the > > > airforce and his big thing was his passion against the > > > nuclear proliferation > > > and also he had a big "agony" (I think he was quite genuine > > > and genuinely > > > tormented by various injustivces he saw and or imagined) re > > > Hiroshima and > > > Nuclear (potential) war and so on): he was a "cranky Yank" but a > > > humanist:but in the late 60s here in Auckland new Zealand he > > > had a poster > > > shop (psychelic posters of things like Hendrix I suppose and > > > maybe Malcolm X > > > or Marx or Mao or whatever: but he was an interesting > > > character (infact my > > > ex wife worked for him in that shop when she was quite young) > > > now he had a > > > lot of energy and introduced a lot of new ideas into the "scene" in > > > Auckland just as hippies were starting here as everywhere: he was also > > > astute with a lot of practical things and new how to fix cars, and do > > > lighting and so on: he may have been one of the first to > > > introduce disco > > > lights here...or he worked in that field: the down side of > > > Bill (I think he > > > hailed form NY and he mentioned he knew Shapiro is a name I > > > recall) was that > > > he would (eg) do a "reading" of his "Jesus Christ was A > > > Black Man" or his > > > posters which were in front of the audience as he read: and > > > was often very > > > greatly apreciated...but the next day (after I had him on as > > > "Wild Bill > > > Millett" in Panmure here (a working class suburb) where we > > > got a lot of > > > people (and as I said he was brilliantly recieved) but the > > > next day he rang > > > me and went on for an 1 1/2 hours about all the negative things of his > > > reading!! When he had been a brilliant success...! > > > > > > He was writing an opera but the musican involved (a Belgian > > > who was very > > > good on the guitar (classical I think only)) could never get > > > a decision on > > > the music: (Bill would drive him near mad talking for hours > > > about it and > > > other things) it was never good enough or something....so he > > > was a character > > > and probably a phenomenom and his press ( on which he produced an > > > extraordinary book "Things of Green, Things of Iron" which > > > was hand made on > > > his big press anad has many very great NZ artists in...I > > > acquired a copy of > > > it but its NFS its too unique: but it has to be seen to be > > > appreciated (this > > > done way before computers were easily available) was used to > > > publish poetry > > > books for The hard Ecko Press here and in those days the > > > present owner of a > > > very large second hand bookshop (The Hard to Find - they're > > > on abebooks,com) > > > was involved I believe in the early days in a printing > > > venture..(.but I'm > > > not sure of the details).... I just wondered if anyone in NY > > > or the States > > > recalls Bill Millett. > > > > > > Richard Taylor. > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 01:02:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Antiwar poetry continued Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 08:34:00 -0600 > From: Maria Damon > Subject: Re: antiwar poetry continued > > these are good points. i for one, am not willing to write off allen > ginsberg's antics as "bad poetry" or acknowledge that vietnam-era > protest poetry "failed." failed to do what? it certainly helped, > along with mass movements, insurgency, fragging, etc etc (see Michael > Bibby's Hearts and Minds, about Viet Nam era political poetry, > including a great chapter on anti-war GI movement publications), to > get the US out of the war. I agree, Maria. I have a hunch that Anne Waldman and Ammiel Alcalay's recent initiative announced here and in the Poetry Project Newsletter -Poetry Is News- has something to do with the painful political void left by the absence of Allen Ginsberg at this particular turn in history. One, two, three -quick- name one poet, name anybody who could provoke the kind of public reaction to US governmentalillness the way Allen Ginsberg was able to. Maybe if two or three hundred of us work together really hard we can get a hundredth of the political protest leadership energy he was able to get going off the top of his head. Sorry if this sounds quixotic, it's just the way I feel. Nick ...in a thousand years, if there's History America'll be remembered as a nasty little Country Full of Pricks... Allen Ginsberg - The Fall Of America- poems of these states 1965-1971 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 02:22:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: 368/1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII 368/1000 | heaven earth black yellow :: is black, the cosmos are vast a desolate wasteland sun fills moon sets in west it's dusk from 7 to 9 morning constellations line up measure word, they spread out cold comes heat goes autumn harvesting winter hiding, concealing intercalary timing leftover residue becomes one tenth measurement of years so lu bamboo pitches shift position open clouds ascend, galloping, sending rain dew forms becoming frost gold gives birth beautiful water jade emanates Kun mountain summit double-edged dagger furiously named huge gate-tower pearl called light darkness treasure fruit plum apple many vegetables mustard ginger sea salted rivers fresh fishscales hidden depths feathers circling above fire dragon emperor teaching phoenix royal official men beginning making writing characters then uniforms, wearing robes < clothing skirts expel throne yield country yao tang has predicted console people strike down guilty hold boundary talk and test with scalding trying case at court query way bequeath bow doubting sections love raise hosts leaders minister prostrate army barbarians near far reality ration guest returning cries white colt grazes there change covers grass weeds (vegetation) trust attain myriad (10,000) directions (square) covering person issues (giving to) four great five (is) normal respect (connector / alone) rearing children (!) flattering destroys injures women adore chastity unyielding imitate pleasing genius know what passes certainty attainment ability never neglect deception other brief disintegration reliance on self (self-reliance) long faith cause should be covered (protect your faith) tool (utensil) desire trouble (quantity) measure-word ink (of) sorrow, sadness (on silk) printed (sadness stains poetry praise small (lamb) sheep (sheep) view, scenery lines tied or lined-up wisdom restraint, conquering study makes (creates) sage benevolence built name stands origin shape proper (upright) model sky valley proclaim (one's) fame empty chamber hall (public room) learn (review lessons) carefully disaster (catastrophe) depends (is caused by) accumulation evil blessings (fortune) (are virtuous happiness 1/3 meter (scale, ruler) bi-jade (circular disk hole) negative (un- ) 1/30 (measurement, small) yin (shadow, moon, sexual organs, feminine, secret) (just so) (to be) emulated (compete with) capital father (parallels) (business) affairs supreme ruler speak strictly (accurately) give filial piety serves as (accepts) end power (the others) devotion follows (rules) life face (meet, confront) deep tread (put shoes) lightly dawn (early morning) prosper warm (and pure) like (an) orchid(s) this fragrance (a) pine(s) prospers (the) river flows not (un) stopping (ceaselessly) (abyss) clear (transparent) take (create) reflection contain (form) (and) stop if (one is) thinking say diction (classical rhetoric) (with) quiet, peaceful determination deliberate beginnings sincerity, fidelity beautiful, beauty prudent all good ancient laws honorable trade place) foundation rolls greatly nothing (in the) outstanding ascend (to) (service) addition work obey government survive by means wild pear go increase chant music particularly precious humble rites well valuable low harmony below harmonious husband chants (calls upon) wife external (foreign) accept pass instructions enter internal) (play music) mother appearance (ceremony) father's sister older brother younger same as) child compared son (child) think very much \ each elder agreeing (as) mind (ch'i, spirit) linking (joining) branches make friends join divide cut polish precepts rules [...] public rectification fit dwell leisure ch'in 4-stringed instrument wonderful question problem gate === ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 03:02:53 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Ginsberg et al.. If Ginsberg were alive he'd make Cardinal Law seem like Pee Wee Hermann... Thanks to those who keep trumpeting the news of how Baraka is being silenced... Silence never met a word this duo didn't like the sound of their own voice of....harry.. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 00:00:12 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Salmon Subject: Comments: To: joe.amato@COLORADO.EDU Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit And George McGovern in december Harpers - case for Liberalism - interesting if a little slight. Dan wanted to draw some attention to george packer's article in ~the new york times magazine~ today, "the liberal quandary over iraq," which raises in my view salient points re the status of liberal hawks (let's say) of various stripes... i think i find mself closest to the "secularist" position, as packer has it, of folks like leon wieseltier, probably owing in part to my mother's wwii experiences... other categories incl. "theorist" (michael walzer), "romantic" (christopher hitchens), "skeptic" (david rieff), and "idealist" (paul berman)---all of which appeal to me in various ways, albeit i find problems with each... worth reading... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 06:44:20 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Silliman's Blog Comments: To: WOM-PO , new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Comments: cc: whpoets@english.upenn.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jennifer Moxley's The Sense Record: Writing against fashion Rachel Blau DuPlessis: A master demonstrates how to give a reading Poor Geoffrey Hill! The importance of the invisible The Age of Huts compleat Hoa Nguyen's Your Ancient See Through Daisy Fried: What is a conservative poet? (The poetics of a greater coherency) Robert Kelly & the poetics of sound "Style is Death": Robert Kelly Finding the Measure A poetics of procedure: Robert Kelly's Axon Dendron Tree http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 07:55:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Ubu.com/aspen in NYT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed December 9, 2002 Three-Dimensional Magazine Lives Again in Two Dimensions By MATTHEW MIRAPAUL http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/09/arts/design/09ARTS.html Published 10 times between 1965 and 1971, Aspen billed itself as the first three-dimensional magazine. Most issues arrived in a notebook-size box stuffed with articles that had been printed individually rather than stapled together. But it was the nature of its contents that made Aspen magazine stand out like a ski lift in a cornfield. Each issue was as likely to hold postcards, posters and phonograph records as essays. And among the magazine's 235 contributors were many prominent figures on the 60's cultural landscape, including Roland Barthes, John Lennon, Marshall McLuhan, Lou Reed and Andy Warhol. Thirty years after Aspen ceased publication, copies of the actual magazines are rarely found outside museum libraries and dusty flea-market bins. Now, though, Aspen can be viewed on the Internet, where the three-dimensional magazine has been digitally reproduced for the two-dimensional computer screen with remarkable verve. The material was put online last month at Ubu.com/aspen. Aspen provided a vivid snapshot of its era. The Pop Art issue came in a Warhol-designed soapbox. Another issue described works by denizens of the Judson Memorial Church gallery, a mecca of early performance art in New York. The Fluxus issue had conceptual scores by Philip Glass and Steve Reich and a LaMonte Young recording. Deborah Wye, chief curator of prints and illustrated books at the Museum of Modern Art in New York, said, "The accuracy of the moment is something that hits you between the eyes when you open one of the boxes." Given Aspen's historical importance, one might assume that a digital re-creation of the magazine would become the work of a museum. Instead, the online version is a labor of love by Andrew Stafford, 48, a San Francisco bookseller who gradually amassed a set of the magazines during the 1990's. He wanted to share his collection. "As an example of creative publishing, Aspen is just stunning," he said. Mr. Stafford's project provides a primer in the pleasures and pitfalls of putting real-world materials on the Internet. But there is no denying that Aspen is an ideal candidate for online presentation. At a time when magazines are routinely accompanied by compact disks with music or computer software, it is easy to overlook how progressive Aspen was in packing its issues with the thin plastic records called flexidiscs and, in one instance, a reel of 8-millimeter film: a truly multimedia magazine. Adapting the magazine for the Web's multimedia capabilities became irresistible to Mr. Stafford. In 1999 he started digitizing some of the magazine's printed pages. He converted the flexidisc recordings into sound files that could be played on a computer and also asked a friend with a movie projector to transfer a reel of short abstract films by Laszlo Moholy-Nagy, Robert Rauschenberg and two other artists into video files. Happily, Mr. Stafford did not stop there. He learned Web-animation techniques so that he could create interactive versions of some exhibits. For instance online visitors can flip through the digitized pages of Lennon's 1969 diary, playfully created in 1968 (sample entry: "got up. went to work. came home. watched telly"), or rotate the lines and dots on a page of John Cage's score for "Fontana Mix." Mr. Stafford completed his digitizing effort in 2000, just as lawsuits over copyright violations involving online song files were reaching the courts. He said, "I became totally intimidated by the prospect of breaking about 150 copyrights." Deterred by the amount of work that would be needed to acquire permission to republish all the Aspen materials online, he put the project in a drawer. Instead he created a free tutorial about Marcel Duchamp, which he put online last August at UnderstandingDuchamp.com. He was soon contacted by the artist's vigilant and unhappy rights administrators. So far, he said, he is dodging their demand for several thousand dollars. While researching the problem, he approached Kenneth Goldsmith, a New York poet who has operated UbuWeb, an Internet-based archive of experimental poetry and avant-garde works, since 1996. The site is at Ubu.com. Mr. Goldsmith volunteered to put the Aspen project on his site, which he did last month. Despite Mr. Stafford's experience with the Duchamp tutorial, Mr. Goldsmith said: "Over the years I've found that people only come after you for rights when you're making money. Since UbuWeb is completely free, nobody has ever really bothered us about rights." He said he removes entries when living artists complain, but that rarely happens. "Most artists who find their stuff on UbuWeb are thrilled," he said. Avant-garde artists rarely expect royalties. "They want an audience." He may be right. The editors of several Aspen issues said they were pleased that the material was available again. Jon Hendricks, who edited the performance-art issue, said, "The idea was to get the information out rather than to think of it as property." Nor did Jeffrey H. James, executive director of the Cunningham Dance Foundation, object to audio recordings of the choreographer Merce Cunningham on the Aspen site. Mr. James said, "The educational value of having Merce's thoughts out there on the Web outweighs our motives of ownership." Still, Mr. Stafford worried that individual contributors would force him to remove select entries. He said, "Losing just 10 percent of the contributors would reduce its usefulness by at least half, so I'm hoping all will cooperate." The ultimate arbiter would probably be Phyllis Johnson, a former intimate-apparel editor of Women's Wear Daily who created Aspen. But her contributors have lost touch with her, and she could not be reached for comment. Ms. Wye of the Museum of Modern Art was enthusiastic about Mr. Stafford's Web site, saying that it achieved the same goal as the original magazine: making art available to a larger public. (The magazine's circulation was 15,000 to 20,000.) She also appreciated having the audio and video entries online, noting that even an institution like the Modern does not always have turntables and movie projectors around. On the other hand, the Web site does not convey the tactile qualities of the real magazines. "You can't imagine how beautiful these flexidiscs are in person," Mr. Goldsmith said. "An audio file is no substitute for the sensuality of vinyl." And Mr. Stafford's straightforward site design encourages online visitors to go through each issue in a linear fashion, losing the treasure-chest element. There is one gap in Mr. Stafford's collection, the last of Aspen's 10 issues. Recently a book dealer with a complete set (asking price: $10,000) offered to mail him color copies of its pages. Mr. Stafford said the issue should be online by Christmas. Mr. Stafford said he understood that he would never recover a dime from his preservation project. Aspen magazine "was a folly," he said, "as is my Web site, I guess." He continued: "Aspen the magazine never made a penny, I'm sure. So Phyllis Johnson and I share that across all these years." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 09:09:54 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: boston winter poetry conference In-Reply-To: <3DF0C07B.6030604@panix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" the last three days were spent exploring, in amanda cook's phrase, "worlds of affection," as jim behrle's tireless energies had arranged for a constellation of celebrations for/of the writing/being of the following: john wieners, fanny howe, stephen jonas and gerritt lansing. reminiscences by old friends and new friends and devotees (for example, jim dunn's devoted caretaking of john wienersin the last several years --i don't mean devotees in the sense of cult followings), readings of their work orchestrated but not micromanaged by joe torra, bill corbett, and the aforementioned behrle, lots of boston poets and a few out of towners notably aldon nielsen and myself, it was a wonderful series of events with fabulously enormous posters which all of us swarmed over to claim after the event, as well as amazing artifacts, jonas's notebooks, earliest versions of gerritt's heavenly tree grows downward, complete w/ jane freilicher portrait of the young lansing w/ "bee-stung lips"... others please join in to fill in details. nicole peyrafitte sang amazingly for gerritt. fanny h was interviewed live by bill corbett in front of a standing room only crowd. carol weston, a survivor of the magic workshops w/ jonas, told us anecdotes and read dramatically from "excercises for ear." joe torra's two daughters giggled, squealed, squirmed, and ran around the rest of us like sappho's most junior schoolgirls celebrating poetry with true gleeful abandon, and gave their dad the thumbs-up when he was at the podium. brenda ijima gave a fabbo and intricate reading of john wieners' geographies of loneliness, and aldon read from letters jonas had sent baraka and others, teasing us w/ knowledge of how close we had come to having huge collected and selected works of jonas back in the days when he was still living. and on and on. very heartening, in these times of fear. three days away from mainstream news. -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 08:52:26 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: The limits of confrontation Swift MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Gary, Jonathan Swift spoke of this problem as the satirist's dilemma. The satirist, by destructing one web of community, makes another (or fails to make another)-- and in doing so she's noted for her wit but detested for what it does and how it's used. Confrontation can make one famous and lonely. gg At 11:58 AM 12/7/2002 -0500, Gary Sullivan wrote: <> ------------------------------------------------------------ Illinois State University Webmail https://webmail2.ilstu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 15:15:31 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: roger.day@GLOBALGRAPHICS.COM Subject: New Prynne Book Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline I've been asked to forward this from Keston Sutherland. Barque Press now vends: ACRYLIC TIPS by J.H. Prynne 7 dollars including postage to the U.S. Please make checks out to Andrea Brady and post them to her at: 13 Heathfield Park, Flat 3, Willesden Green, London NW2 5JE www.barquepress.com Roger ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 11:02:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: caroline crumpacker Subject: Bilingual Poetry Reading Series Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable The Bilingual Poetry Series returns... with a reading of Swedish poetry in translation featuring Johannes G=F6ransson reading the poetry of Aase Berg, Henry Parland and Gunnar Bj=F6rling... Sunday, December 15th 3:30 pm at the Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery NY, NY 10012 (Bleecker-Houston) 212-614-0505 Admission is $5 Johannes G=F6ransson was born and grew up in Sweden, moving to the US 16 year= s ago. He has an MFA in poetry from University of Iowa and his poetry can be found in recent issues of Verse, American Letters and Commentary, and Jubilat among others. He works as a translator and a landscaper. He'll be reading his translations of the following poets: Aase Berg (b. 1967) is one of the most important young, Swedish poets of th= e moment. She has published three books of poetry: "Where the Deer Live", the sci-fi epic "Dark Materia", and "Carry Fat." Berg is the poetry editor of BLM, an international literary journal, and Vertigo, an underground publisher of pornographic texts, translations of Bataille and such. She's also a founding member of Stora Saltet ("the Great Salt"), an avant-garde poetry group in Stockholm. Henry Parland (1908-1930) was born in Russia, but participated the Finland-Swedish Modernist movement in Helsinki (including Bj=F6rling) and wrote in Swedish. He only published one book in his lifetime, the poetry collection "The Sale of Ideals", as well as a number of significant essays. His reputation as a major Modernist writer rests largely on the posthumous collection of poetry ("Hamlet Would Have Put It More Beautifully") and an unfinished novel ("Torn"). He died of scarlet fever when he was just 22. Gunnar Bj=F6rling ( 1887-1960) is one of the most perplexing character in Swedish literary history. Not only is his poetry so strange critics are still grappling with the most basic issues (One prominent critic of the day called his poetry "completely bottomless abracadabra," while another proclaimed him a "homegrown mystic."), but he lived an unusual life, including trying to assassinate the czar, writing a doctoral dissertation o= n Nietzsche, living as a gay man when it was still illegal, and having a manuscript burn into shreds in an attack during World War II (he published the leftovers). Here are some sample poems... Berg: In the Guinea Pig Cave There lay the guinea pigs. There lay the guinea pigs and they waited with blood around their mouths like my sister. There lay the guinea pigs and they smelled bad in the cave. There lay my sister and she swelled and ached and throbbed= . There lay the guinea pigs and they ached all over and their legs stuck straight up like beetles and they looked depraved and were blue under their eyes as from months of debauchery. My sister puked calmly and indifferently: it ran slowly out of her slack mouth without her moving a single nerve. And the cave was warm as teats and full of autumn leaves and beneath the soil lay the arm of a mannequin. There lay the guinea pigs and ached and were made of dough. Ther= e lay the guinea pigs beside the knives that would slice them up like loaves. And my sister with lips of blueberries, soil and mush. In the distance, the siren bleated inhumanly. That is where the guinea pigs lay and waited with blood around their mouths and contorted bodies. They waited. And I was tired in m= y whole stomach from meat dough and guinea pig loaf and I knew that they woul= d take revenge on me. Parland: The sale of ideals: -- you say it has already begun but I say: better cut the prices. Bjorling: (from "Where I Know That You" Part II) Oh, sure there are, and every human being. - you and has a face. I - and until I lie down I - and with a word I - that with your face. Never did I see as in the morning I you. As before the waking your countenance pure-shape. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 12:55:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: hilarity in NYC Comments: To: mmagee@english.upenn.edu Comments: cc: Brian@dept.english.upenn.edu, Stefans@dept.english.upenn.edu, bstefans@earthlink.net, Jordan@dept.english.upenn.edu, Davis@dept.english.upenn.edu, jdavis@panix.com, Adeena@dept.english.upenn.edu, Karasick@dept.english.upenn.edu, adeena@compuserve.com, Alan@dept.english.upenn.edu, Gilbert@dept.english.upenn.edu, alandgilbert@yahoo.com, Allison@dept.english.upenn.edu, Cobb@dept.english.upenn.edu, acobb@edf.org, Anna@dept.english.upenn.edu, Moschovakis@dept.english.upenn.edu, amoschovakis@yahoo.com, Anselm@dept.english.upenn.edu, Berrigan@dept.english.upenn.edu, anselmberrigan@aol.com, Brenda@dept.english.upenn.edu, Coultas@dept.english.upenn.edu, bgcoultas@aol.com, carol@dept.english.upenn.edu, mirakove@dept.english.upenn.edu, mirakove@covad.net, Charles@dept.english.upenn.edu, Bernstein@dept.english.upenn.edu, bernstei@bway.net, Deidre@dept.english.upenn.edu, Kovac@dept.english.upenn.edu, eurydice@aol.com, Doug@dept.english.upenn.edu, Rothschild@dept.english.upenn.edu, drothschild@jjay.cuny.edu, drew@dept.english.upenn.edu, gardner@dept.english.upenn.edu, drewgard@erols.com, Eddie@dept.english.upenn.edu, Berrigan@dept.english.upenn.edu, eberrigan@hotmail.com, edwin@dept.english.upenn.edu, torres@dept.english.upenn.edu, brainlingo@yahoo.com, Fodaski@dept.english.upenn.edu, efodaski@earthlink.net, Ethan@dept.english.upenn.edu, Fugate@dept.english.upenn.edu, ejfugate@yahoo.com, Gary@dept.english.upenn.edu, Sullivan@dept.english.upenn.edu, Gary.Sullivan@nmss.org, Greg@dept.english.upenn.edu, Fuchs@dept.english.upenn.edu, greg@gregfuchs.com, Katie@dept.english.upenn.edu, Degentesh@dept.english.upenn.edu, degentesh@earthlink.net, Kevin@dept.english.upenn.edu, Davies@dept.english.upenn.edu, kd7@nyu.edu, Kristin@dept.english.upenn.edu, Prevallet@dept.english.upenn.edu, prev@erols.com, Laura@dept.english.upenn.edu, Elrick@dept.english.upenn.edu, Matchgrls@aol.com, Lee@dept.english.upenn.edu, Ann@dept.english.upenn.edu, Brown@dept.english.upenn.edu, leeann@tenderbuttons.net, Lytle@dept.english.upenn.edu, Shaw@dept.english.upenn.edu, shark@erols.com, Mariana@dept.english.upenn.edu, Ruiz@dept.english.upenn.edu, momala26@hotmail.com, Marianne@dept.english.upenn.edu, Shaneen@dept.english.upenn.edu, shaneenmarianne@hotmail.com, Michael@dept.english.upenn.edu, Scharf@dept.english.upenn.edu, michael.scharf@att.net, Miles@dept.english.upenn.edu, Champion@dept.english.upenn.edu, miles@dircon.co.uk, Nada@dept.english.upenn.edu, Gordon@dept.english.upenn.edu, nada@jps.net, Rodrigo@dept.english.upenn.edu, Toscano@dept.english.upenn.edu, RT5LE9@aol.com, Rick@dept.english.upenn.edu, Snyder@dept.english.upenn.edu, ricksnyder@hotmail.com, Susan@dept.english.upenn.edu, Landers@dept.english.upenn.edu, susanlanders@yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, this is a comedy show my brother is doing in New York which should be pretty damn funny, part of the Upright Citizens Brigade thing. I'll be going myself on December 20. Hope to see some of you. -m. > What the Hell! > > Mitch Magee has got his more-than-hilarious sketch show, Citizen Nuts, up > and running! > > After the unfortunate shutdown of the upright citizen's brigade theater, it > looked as though will hines and mitch magee's awesome/fun comedy hijinx > would be put on ice for a while - not anymore! > > Come see Citizen Nuts! Fri December 13th, 20th, and 27th at midnight at the > Access Theater: 380 Broadway, 4th floor (Broadway and White, just bellow > Canal) > > You'll see: > Tap Dancing > Sexually Agressive Doctors > Acts of Patriotism > Movies > Italians > And Much, Much, more > > for more info see www.citizennuts.com > > PLEASE forward this message to all of our friends! > > Citizen Nuts: An Evening of Masterfully Executed Sketch Comedy > Friday, December 13th, 20th, and 27th at Midnight > Access Theater > 380 Broadway, 4th Floor (B'way just bellow Canal) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 10:11:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: antiwar poetry continued (the Memorial) In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I obviously disagree with you on your aesthetic take of the Memorial space. And I would be the last to see how the Memorial can be seen as an "ennobling" of war. The heroic celebration of combat is in the representational sculpture of the GI's at one edge of the Memorial - a concession to those who insisted on the nobility of battle. I am sure my anti-war interpretation of the space, may be viewed purely as a requiem for the war by others. I do agree with you that the Memorial is nation-centric. It's worth imagining the impact if the Vietnamese war dead were similarly listed (for example) on the opposite side of the Wall. That would be a welcome global consciousness raiser! A former enemy composed of persons with real names. Mairead's attention to the Project in Boston is interesting. George Evans, the poet and Vietnam vet goes there every summer for the conference for American and Vietnamese poets and writers who were in the War. Curbstone Press, I believe, will publish his translations of North Vietnamese poets this spring. Now that's an embrace. Stephen V on 12/8/02 1:21 PM, MWP at mpalmer@JPS.NET wrote: > I may be in the tiny minority, but I dislike the Vietnam memorial and have > never considered it great art. To me the idea of indiscriminately mixing up > the names of the dead - and only Americans, it should be noted, so the > picture it represents is very one-sided and FAR from complete - is the wrong > way to memorialize the people who died in this war. It places knowing > butchers and involuntary draftees in proximity to each other without any > kind of consideration of the relative value of each. It's a dubiously amoral > piece in this regard and not the least bit anti-war that I can see. I also > find its big stone blocks to be a form of mystification that ennobles war in > a way by making it seem inscrutable and timeless. > > I hope I don't offend anybody by these comments, but I just wanted to speak > out and add my own rather roughly hewn view of a work I frankly know little > about and admire not at all. You may all choose to ignore me in scornful > silence, which would be fine. > > > -m ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 13:35:58 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: a kinder way Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT This list is presumably inhabited by people with some expertise in using words and I'd like some help in finding a kinder way to say 'exhibitionism.' There is a tendency these days for people to exhibit their psychic pain on talk shows, listservs, and in chat rooms and internet self-help groups rather than deal with it. In jargon this is called 'acting out' and it can be either appropriate or inappropriate depending on, among other things, whether it resolves the pain. 'Acting out' and 'exhibitionism' are rather harsh terms for this but I can't come up with a kinder way. Thoughts? Ideas? tom bell p.s. assuming a kinder way is called for &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&cetera: Poetry at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/publicat.html Gallery - Metaphor/Metonym for Health at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Health articles at http://psychology.healingwell.com/ Reviews at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/reviews.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 13:26:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: antiwar poetry continued (the Memorial) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The William Joiner Center for the Study of War and Social Consequences does not get nearly the attention it should. The work of the center is remarkable. I have participated in the workshops, and I have spend the summer learning the intricacies of the Vietnamese form, luc bat. Participating in a workshop where American vets sit on one side of a table and Vietnamese (VC) vets sit on the other translating each others' poems taught me the power of poetry. Embrace puts it lightly, Stephen. The friendships that have emerged are profound. The Joiner Center got the State Dept to release the "Captured Documents" which totaled more then 20,000 pieces of paper. Many of the papers were love poems back to loved ones and most were the last records of Vietnamese MIAs. Pham Tien Duat visits every few years, and he goes through each one on microfilm. He then goes back and visits peoples' families telling them what he's found. The work of the Joiner Center, Kevin Bowen, and the staff cannot be over-exaggerated. Ak At 01:11 PM 12/9/2002, you wrote: >I obviously disagree with you on your aesthetic take of the Memorial space. >And I would be the last to see how the Memorial can be seen as an >"ennobling" of war. The heroic celebration of combat is in the >representational sculpture of the GI's at one edge of the Memorial - a >concession to those who insisted on the nobility of battle. I am sure my >anti-war interpretation of the space, may be viewed purely as a requiem for >the war by others. >I do agree with you that the Memorial is nation-centric. It's worth >imagining the impact if the Vietnamese war dead were similarly listed (for >example) on the opposite side of the Wall. That would be a welcome global >consciousness raiser! A former enemy composed of persons with real names. >Mairead's attention to the Project in Boston is interesting. George Evans, >the poet and Vietnam vet goes there every summer for the conference for >American and Vietnamese poets and writers who were in the War. Curbstone >Press, I believe, will publish his translations of North Vietnamese poets >this spring. Now that's an embrace. > >Stephen V > > > > > > >on 12/8/02 1:21 PM, MWP at mpalmer@JPS.NET wrote: > > > I may be in the tiny minority, but I dislike the Vietnam memorial and have > > never considered it great art. To me the idea of indiscriminately mixing up > > the names of the dead - and only Americans, it should be noted, so the > > picture it represents is very one-sided and FAR from complete - is the > wrong > > way to memorialize the people who died in this war. It places knowing > > butchers and involuntary draftees in proximity to each other without any > > kind of consideration of the relative value of each. It's a dubiously > amoral > > piece in this regard and not the least bit anti-war that I can see. I also > > find its big stone blocks to be a form of mystification that ennobles > war in > > a way by making it seem inscrutable and timeless. > > > > I hope I don't offend anybody by these comments, but I just wanted to speak > > out and add my own rather roughly hewn view of a work I frankly know little > > about and admire not at all. You may all choose to ignore me in scornful > > silence, which would be fine. > > > > > > -m ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 15:33:19 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: raging grannies song MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *********************************************************** (This was one of the tunes the Raging Grannies sang at an anti-war march in Hamilton, Ontario recently. It's sung to the tune of "If You're Happy And You Know It, Clap Your Hands".) If we cannot find Osama, bomb Iraq. If the markets hurt your Mama, bomb Iraq. If the terrorists are Saudi, And the bank takes back your Audi, And the TV shows are bawdy, Bomb Iraq. If the corporate scandals growin', bomb Iraq. And your ties to them are showin', bomb Iraq. If the smoking gun ain't smokin' We don't care, and we're not jokin'. That Saddam will soon be croakin', Bomb Iraq. Even if we have no allies, bomb Iraq. >From the sand dunes to the valleys, bomb Iraq. So to hell with the inspections; Let's look tough for the elections, Close your mind and take directions, Bomb Iraq. While the globe is slowly warming, bomb Iraq. Yay! the clouds of war are storming, bomb Iraq. If the ozone hole is growing, Some things we prefer not knowing. Though our ignorance is showing, Bomb Iraq. So here's one for dear old daddy, bomb Iraq, >From his favorite little laddy, bomb Iraq. Saying no would look like treason. It's the Hussein hunting season. Even if we have no reason, Bomb Iraq. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 15:18:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: contact info for Jennifer Moxley? In-Reply-To: <000001c29f78$54abc3b0$e20ac143@Dell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Anyone have an email address? Thanks, Steve ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 15:21:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Oppen talk In-Reply-To: <1039445546.3df4ae2a336a9@webmail2.ilstu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello All--I know some of you are in the Cambridge/Boston area, so I thought I'd mention that I'm giving a talk on George Oppen at Harvard on Wednesday, December 11, 6:30, Barker Center. Cheers, Steve ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 15:17:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: a kinder way In-Reply-To: <051301c29fba$341dd920$f2113444@rthfrd01.tn.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bluntness? Directness? Openness? Honesty? Frankness? Sharing? Hal "The bacon too carries on its modest love affair." --Tony Towle Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard { This list is presumably inhabited by people with some expertise in using { words and I'd like some help in finding a kinder way to say 'exhibitionism.' { There is a tendency these days for people to exhibit their psychic pain on { talk shows, listservs, and in chat rooms and internet self-help groups { rather than deal with it. In jargon this is called 'acting out' and it can { be either appropriate or inappropriate depending on, among other things, { whether it resolves the pain. 'Acting out' and 'exhibitionism' are rather { harsh terms for this but I can't come up with a kinder way. Thoughts? { Ideas? { { tom bell { { p.s. assuming a kinder way is called for ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 15:47:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: Re: Oppen talk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed what'll it cover? _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 15:59:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: a kinder way MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SOME EXPERTISE IN USING WORDS It's the fear of becoming a teddy bear or falling through a bedding tear lately when I go to toy stores to buy coloring books the teddy bears in a brown pile catch me eye to eye call me over and wish me well generally I am asked to free one or all or help smuggle their child to a good family presumably inhabited by people I'd like some help finding a kinder way to say no There is a tendency these days for me to 'buy out' of my psychic pain rather than deal with it thoughts? ideas? forge over head like a dream it can be either appropriate or inappropriate depending on, among other things, whether it resolves the pain. is there a fear of becoming a teddy bear held to tightly [an object of the bed] falling through a kind bedding tear assuming a kinder way is called for ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Bell" To: Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 2:35 PM Subject: a kinder way > This list is presumably inhabited by people with some expertise in using > words and I'd like some help in finding a kinder way to say 'exhibitionism.' > There is a tendency these days for people to exhibit their psychic pain on > talk shows, listservs, and in chat rooms and internet self-help groups > rather than deal with it. In jargon this is called 'acting out' and it can > be either appropriate or inappropriate depending on, among other things, > whether it resolves the pain. 'Acting out' and 'exhibitionism' are rather > harsh terms for this but I can't come up with a kinder way. Thoughts? > Ideas? > > tom bell > > p.s. assuming a kinder way is called for > > &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&cetera: > Poetry at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/publicat.html > Gallery - Metaphor/Metonym for Health at > http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm > Health articles at http://psychology.healingwell.com/ > Reviews at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/reviews.htm > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 16:06:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: antiwar poetry continued (the Memorial) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >The heroic celebration of combat ??? What is this??? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 13:27:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: byteloop #0003 paul whitney MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE PAUL WHITNEY COLLECTION byteloop #0003..................excerpt www.the-hyper-age.com halls Rookcliffe wondered rode hounds halls Rookcliffe wondered rode hounds halls Rookcliffe wondered rode hounds halls Rookcliffe wondered rode hounds come looking girl brother come looking girl brother come looking girl brother come looking girl brother Sadder sunless slain Sadder sunless slain Sadder sunless slain Sadder sunless slain Assures come Assures come linger unto Assures come Nay linger unto Assures come figures inmost Nay linger unto figures inmost Nay linger unto figures inmost engagements Nay all necessities figures inmost engagements all necessities engagements all necessities engagements bowed horse mane all necessities wrapping bowed horse mane awakened wrapping bowed horse mane awakened wrapping bowed horse mane awakened wrapping Hermas awakened Hermas Hermas Hermas Miriam Guarini Miriam Guarini haired fay Miriam cousins girls Guarini haired fay Miriam cousins girls Guarini haired fay cousins girls haired fay cannot cousins girls cannot glaring manoeuvres cannot kindly natured glaring manoeuvres cannot such little kindly natured glaring manoeuvres known such little kindly natured glaring manoeuvres known such little kindly natured warring welfare known such little warring welfare known intended warring welfare thy soulless intended warring welfare thy soulless intended loving loving thy soulless intended loving loving thy soulless desolate long loving loving Paulus cried desolate long loving loving Paulus cried desolate long Paulus cried desolate long Paulus cried seems seems remnant seems remnant seems remnant remnant few fragmentary few fragmentary few fragmentary few fragmentary coming coming coming coming eyes eyes roses eyes donors roses eyes donors roses donors roses feelings donors Mary feelings Mary feelings Mary feelings Mary tenders tenders tenders tenders hearted touched long sunbeams eastward hearted touched long sunbeams eastward hearted touched long sunbeams eastward hearted touched long sunbeams eastward sons baths sons baths sons baths resuming sons baths resuming resuming resuming All dying all All dying all All dying all All dying all tremulous flash tremulous flash tremulous Emilio lived flash tremulous Emilio lived flash Emilio lived Emilio lived freer freer freer freer streaming taunt streaming taunt streaming laughing taunt streaming laughing taunt laughing laughing Sickness weepings incognita Sickness weepings incognita Sickness weepings given meek incognita ways Sickness weepings given meek incognita shuttle ways given meek shuttle ways given meek shuttle ways shuttle foul foul known told foul known told foul known told known told legged busily legged busily all suffered legged busily all suffered legged busily all suffered all suffered bawl bawl bawl bawl bane bane Leipzig bane Leipzig bane Leipzig Leipzig dried dried dried dried loving cannot twittering miles comforts loving cannot twittering miles comforts loving cannot twittering miles comforts loving cannot twittering asked miles comforts asked sickness come scavenger asked penitence sickness come scavenger asked poorer penitence sickness come scavenger poorer penitence sickness come scavenger poorer penitence poorer Dying Dying Dying Dying shingly --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. 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Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 13:28:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: byteloop #0004 paul whitney MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE PAUL WHITNEY COLLECTION byteloop #0004..................excerpt www.the-hyper-age.com Bodine Goliath Bodine Goliath Bodine Goliath Bodine Goliath Baiae Lucrine yields bleeding William Baiae Lucrine yields bleeding William Baiae Lucrine yields all Loy Rook bleeding William Baiae Lucrine yields all Loy Rook bleeding William all Loy Rook all Loy Rook Loy Rook announcing hastened Loy Rook announcing bade shun hastened Loy Rook announcing bade shun hastened Loy Rook announcing bade shun hastened blest folks bade shun blest folks blest folks mirth offence blest folks wrapping mirth offence Lepidus Lollius wrapping mirth offence Lepidus Lollius wrapping mirth offence Lepidus Lollius sweeter wrapping Lepidus Lollius sweeter sweeter sweeter clouds heaven clouds heaven Oft see couches clouds heaven disown Oft see couches clouds heaven disown Oft see couches disown Oft see couches furthest thy taking disown stolen fruiterer furthest thy taking stolen fruiterer furthest thy taking stolen fruiterer furthest come thy taking stolen fruiterer Cardona come Cardona come Cardona come Cardona newspapers startled Joe Cardona eerie newspapers startled Joe Cardona eerie newspapers startled Joe Cardona eerie newspapers startled Joe Cardona eerie Such draught looming Such draught looming ducks Such draught looming ducks Such draught looming ducks trice ducks trice trice trice Baltimore Md Baltimore county Baltimore Md Baltimore county Baltimore Md Baltimore county Baltimore Md Baltimore county say looks say looks say looks say looks Unless Unless Unless farthing donors Unless farthing donors leader trained guns farthing donors few nudged leader trained guns farthing donors dat all hongry few nudged leader trained guns convict dat all hongry few nudged leader trained guns bide convict dat all hongry few nudged bide convict dat all hongry bide convict bide EPISTLES EPISTLES EPISTLES EPISTLES tenders tenders tenders tenders hearted Mimnermus tells hearted Mimnermus tells hearted Mimnermus tells hearted Clipper fallen pounding Mimnermus tells ware Clipper fallen pounding ware Clipper fallen pounding ware Clipper fallen pounding ware letters letters letters letters Jake Dermott rods Jake Dermott rods Jake Dermott rods Jake Dermott rods Tis happier specialist named Rutledge Mann Tis happier specialist named Rutledge Mann Tis happier specialist named Rutledge Mann Tis happier specialist named Rutledge Mann holds Nero little holds Nero little holds Nero little holds Nero little finery dishes Albius finery dishes Albius finery mere dishes Albius finery mere dishes Albius mere mere hunted Cliff idle cupidity judicious coax hunted Cliff idle cupidity judicious coax hunted Cliff bumped eh? idle cupidity Nay wretch judicious coax hunted Cliff bumped eh? idle cupidity shuttle see Nay wretch judicious coax bumped eh? shuttle see Nay wretch bumped eh? shuttle see Nay wretch lifts beams shuttle see lifts beams lifts beams birthdays lifts beams birthdays birthdays birthdays tapped tapped tapped tapped eyes eyes laurels eyes laurels eyes laurels laurels elder poets elder poets elder poets elder poets Cardona reached grimly Cardona reached grimly Cardona reached grimly Cardona reached grimly Ennius appears slaves chattels Ennius appears slaves chattels Ennius appears slaves chattels Ennius appears --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 13:57:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: antiwar poetry continued (the Memorial) In-Reply-To: <004801c29fc6$d814ad90$605e3318@LINKAGE> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable on 12/9/02 1:06 PM, Geoffrey Gatza at ggatza@DAEMEN.EDU wrote: >> The heroic celebration of combat ??? >=20 > What is this??? Geoffrey, I don't know if you have visited the Memorial, but the figurative work by Frederick Hart is called "Three Solders." It's inclusion at the periphery of Maya Lin's work was made possible by Ross Perot, and the infamous Secretary of the Interior, James Watt. You can see the work from four points of view on a website sponsored named, What Art Is Online (http://www.aristos.org/whatart/vetmem.htm) a supplement to What Art Is: Th= e Esthetic Theory of Ayn Rand by Louis Torres and Michelle Marder Kamhi (2000). tThe "heroics" are best brought out in the sites various descriptive plugs for the work: "A trio of tired soldiers...of warriors larger than life." "The three soldiers look like three soldiers, tired and heroic." "Hart captured in stone something vivid, urgent, and alive." =A0"Their true heroism lies in these bonds of loyalty,=A0 in their aloneness, and in their vulnerability."=A0=A0 "Three Soldiers" is a tribute, not to sacrifice and death,=A0 but to the living HEROISM of the Vietnam Veteran." "Mr. Hart is a sculptor in the 'neo-traditional' mode, which means you can tell what the sculpture is about merely by looking at it.=A0 The three soldiers look like three soldiers, tired and heroic." (Ben Wattenberg, The Washington Times, 08/12/1999). It's amazing what the entire Memorial site elicits - "audience participation" was a kind of "go" word in seventies theater (The Living Theater being the most prominent example). I think the Memorial - in terms of participation - continues to upstage them all! Stephen V ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 16:19:45 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: 'Greatest living poet' lets words slide MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hey, this Collins chap ain't so bad! At least he's insightful-- "Collins, who views Ashbery as a great comic poet." etc. Actually, I really like Collins' poems, & am being facetious. I saw him read with William Matthews in NYC about 8 years ago, and he was really dynamite. Also, a friendly sort of word-farmer to chat with. I notice folks such as Bowering, whom I otherwise admire, beating on Collins w/o mercy. What gives? Yes; what gives? As you were, Aaron B. p.s. Ashbery ain't bad either-- I appreciate his statement that criticism can't "tell me how to write my next poem, which is basically what I'm interested in." Reminds me of a statement made by my current obsession, Josh Billings -- "Thare aint no theory in brakeing a mule, only tew go at him, with a klub in yure hand, and sum blood in yure eye, and brake him, just as yu would split a log" (from his essay "What I Kno About Pharming"). ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 18:14:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Taking Our Message Further (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 9 Dec 2002 23:13:55 -0000 From: "Eli Pariser, MoveOn.org" To: Alan Sondheim Subject: Taking Our Message Further Dear MoveOn member, The last few days have been simply astounding. Over 166,000 of us have signed the letter to President Bush asking him to let the inspections work. Then over 14,000 of us chipped in nearly $370,000 to support an Iraq advertising campaign, which will kick off with a full-page copy of our letter in the New York Times this week. Of course, that'll just be the beginning. The incredible generosity with which folks have contributed to the Let the Inspections Work media campaign allows us to stretch out in directions that were previously out of reach. We'll make sure that our message is heard. We're working with Fenton Communications to dramatically expand our print ad campaign. On Thursday, we'll be running our ad nationally in USA Today. And later this week, we'll be co-sponsoring another New York Times ad, signed by prominent public figures. We can't give you details on that yet -- it's embargoed until a press conference on Tuesday. But we're not stopping at newspapers. Next week, we'd like to run ads on radio stations in Washington, DC. And because we're a grassroots organization, we'd like your help in coming up with them. Are you an aspiring playwright? Professional ad man or woman? Writer? None of the above? Take a crack at a 60-second script for a radio ad with the "Let the Inspections Work" theme. Post it to our radio ads ActionForum (below) by Wednesday at 12:00 PST, and rate what other folks have posted. We'll scour the best ideas from this forum when we decide what to put on the air in Washington, DC. It could mean airtime for your script. You can post your ad script and rate other folks' ads at: http://www.actionforum.com/forum/index.html?forum_id=251 Beyond radio, here's how our campaign will shape up over the coming week: * When the New York Times ad runs, we'll make a storm of phone calls -- thousands -- which will increase its visibility and impact. * Later, we'll work together to write thousands of letters to the editor, one of the most effective ways of getting free political press. * On Wednesday, we're helping to launch the Keep America Safe/Win Without War coalition, a group of major civic organizations including the NAACP, the National Organization for Women, the National Council of Churches, and a number of other organizations. The coalition will publicize and organize a mainstream grassroots opposition to the Bush plans for pre-emptive, unilateral war. The momentum for letting the inspections work is clearly building. Thank you for being part of what is already an amazing campaign. Sincerely, --Eli, Peter, Wes, Joan, and Carrie MoveOn.org December 9th, 2002 P.S. If you eagerly went out and bought a copy of the Times today, like we did, you'll notice that our letter to President Bush ad is not in it. To stretch your dollars as far as possible, we saved almost half the price of the ad by agreeing to placement within a window of a few days this week, rather than running it today for sure. We'll see it in the paper within the next few days, and we'll let you know as soon as we do. If you'd like to see what the ad looks like, go to our main page at http://www.moveon.org. ________________ This is a message from MoveOn.org. To remove yourself from this list, please visit our subscription management page at: http://moveon.org/s?i=938-1083850-YES9Mnqubf3l4XsNRgzzKw ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:19:26 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: a kinder way Comments: cc: webartery@egroups.com MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT discontinuous extroversion is the best suggestion I've gotten so far and oddly enough it was given to me by someone who no longer posts to the listserv because of discontinuous extraversion. tom bell ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 20:53:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Why _culture_ is a political poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Thanks, Jeffrey, for that reading through _culture_. There are criticisms in your reading that I’d agree with--that Dan might have agreed with, too. But the general charge, of the book’s other elements eclipsing the political (or social/political?), is one I disagree with. Why we disagree with this is simple. You didn’t once quote from "Product," the first poem in the series, which comprises the book’s first 25 pages. Quoting from this book, it’s almost impossible to find anything *not* politically charged: Reception is a particular exchange, an object. This establishes, if attended, a paradigm of packaging, a beeperless death, walking across the room to find it. Anyway, we are clutched in the aspirations of a stranger. [9] There is a direct route, access being denied ... [9] Guards are everywhere, only some have guns. [10] It was the founder’s idea to raise substance to the level of belief. [10] [And how might that change your reading of the word/idea "belief" as you go through the book, with this resonating?] Return and there’s another bag. Return and there’s another bag. Return and there’s another bag. Return and there’s your cue, of course, humming along with Product Control, Inc. Who would choose this would wish for death, walking across the room to find it. What happens with those with too much to remove? How many feet are needed to turn for two? For sleep? Generic americana, faux faux. This is playing a game, a cavalcade of description, cleaning all. [10] Mother holds the item that was made by what was bought. [11] Every box is a plan of attack, or you, it, advancing. [12] Entering is participation, identity, multiply unique, restricted to what replays, recalls, aligns, within the silence that tells about feeding it. [13] The intent is to create an armed camp or ritual site, never far from the tv or sporty look. [14] See the differences ... at all locations. [16] You may know where dreams come true ... rewards such as a wealth of worldwide travel and database records, a personal sense of luxury, brilliant, and with a sense of style. [17] [And how might that complicate the "dream" stuff later?] Human resources ... more studies will be done. [17] Refreshingly modern, in the American tradition, and with computer science to increase you, a deal is a deal is a deal. [18] Experts have a ticket. See them, touch them, touch them now. [19] Exudes an aura revolutions are intended to address. [20] Blend in, stand out, in the fragrant melding of trust, warmth and comfort, a fabrication learning to collect. This, then, is shopping from the inside. [21] And so on. "Shopping from the inside" being, I think, really what’s being looked at--how this stuff is internalized. My sense is, if you read "Product," there’s no question that this is what we’d call "political poetry." Rather than the later stuff eclipsing this first piece, I think this first piece resonates throughout the book. There’s a reason Dan put it at the beginning. Everything is meant to radiate out from it. My analogy would be the film "The Deer Hunter," the first 25 minutes or so taken up with a lengthy wedding/reception. The director at first thought it was too much and wanted to cut it. But when he did, he noticed that much of one's connection with the characters was stripped from the film. The first 25 minutes were crucial, radiated throughout the rest of the film. Similarly, "Product," the first 25 pages of _culture_, informs and even warps everything that comes later. When the SPD catalog says that _culture_ was a "poetical critique of productivised social relations"--I don’t think that’s "false advertising." I think, reading the book, it’s obvious. So that, "dreams" and "belief," which you pick up on, would not, after reading "Product," be taken quite at the *face value* level you’ve taken them in your critique. They’re warped I think by their earliest instances. By this sense of "productivised social relations." * * * It may be that, because "Product" is the poem I talked about Dan’s use of "Breakdown" in, you avoid it ("I can always read a gas meter," I think you said.) Remember, though, how actually Dan wrote that poem. He sat, day after day, in department stores in San Francisco, jotting down notes. It was his own writing he sent through the Breakdown program. And, as I also say in the afterword, the poem was created by reworking what the program had spewed out. So, the charge of "non-authorial" here, I think is not accurate. He worked on it for quite a while, and the beginning and ending acts in the process were what we would call "authorial." (e.g., "intended.") His use of mediation here, of the "Breakdown" program, was a poetic nod, I think, to the "factory." It is, after all, the "Product" that he’s looking at. I feel on the one hand grateful for all of the work you’ve put into reading the book. On the other hand, I feel like you’ve missed the point by selectively ignoring the piece from which everything else is made manifest. Like having a discussion about a punchline without taking into account the rest of the joke. Or something. Is that fair? Anyway, thanks for reading through it again. I do wonder, though, how "Product," if you don't ignore it, might (or might not) change your reading of the rest of the book ... _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 15:46:41 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" Subject: Re: Bill Millett Anyone There Know the Cranky Yank? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yeah,Richard,it WAS a long time ago and I WAS another person. I can't remember the poetry very well; but the title 'Jesus Christ was a Black Man' sounds no more promising now than it did to me then. You speak of his interest in the visual, typography etc. I recall that style of collage you find in school projects and American artists' books of the 70s, messy, expressive, garish etc. One-of-a-kind (fortunately) they called them. That said, I could easily be doing the man an injustice. Excuse me. Wystan -----Original Message----- From: richard.tylr [mailto:richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ] Sent: Monday, 9 December 2002 6:55 p.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Bill Millett Anyone There Know the Cranky Yank? wystan. he was "appalling" in a sense, but when you study his work on the page and think about him "in totum" I'm not so sure: but you are right that he was melodramatic..wherther appalling is the right word...old (obvioulsy he wasnt always that old) Bill was actually though an extraordinary character and quite sincere: but he died of an asthmatic attack in 1998 I think it was. I think if you studied "Things of Iron and Things of Green" carefully you would see that in some ways the interests of Bill and Alan Loney coincide (the interest in printing and the visual and typography etc) although I would say that Loney of course is major force in poetry in NZ but in "Things of Iron.." Bill uses a mixture of rhetorc and prose and comment centred on Hiroshima (in some ways in indirectly remds me of Ted Berrigan)...but his poetry ranges form what is clearly "overkill": to "direct talking and then he quotes forom people he met at Hiroshima: I would dispute that he was appalling in the sense that a lot of "political poets" are: it would be like someone looking at your poetry and saying "he's appalling, he doesnt rhyme" or "that's not poetry...its too flat and" so on...but the book is hard to get and if you were "exposed to Bill at the wrong time - you were eg a much better reader than Bill ..or "better" is not the right term, you and he were as different as chalk and cheese and I enjoyed you reading and also Bill...but sometimes he was "too much" ...but NOT always: his style somehow suited what he we was so passionate about: true he was an egotist and often "wouldnt shut up" and in many respects had his "down side" as we all do: but I think he also had some great qualities: I think some people were put of of by his "cranky " personality ...but on balance I liked and respected Bill, and his passionate diatribes against war etc. I knew him when I had lost interest in poetry and was "into" street protesting and politics etc(about 1970) and he had a shop the top of Mt Eden Road. he was also a friend of a friend (Martin Leo) who initiated the ivestigation into the release of the French terrorists by David Lange...Many people knew Bill: a good man I feel. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" To: Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 5:47 PM Subject: Re: Bill Millett Anyone There Know the Cranky Yank? > Dear Richard, > Oh, I remember him! Whatever happened to him? An appalling > poet, who just wouldn't shut up. Only interested in himself. I remember > feeling helpless--either I just walk away, or I just walk away. > Wystan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: richard.tylr [mailto:richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ] > Sent: Monday, 9 December 2002 2:48 a.m. > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Bill Millett Anyone There Know the Cranky Yank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill Millett was from the United States (came mid to late 60s > > > I think) and > > > he knew some well known poets in the US: I also saw his > > > photograph in a book > > > about The Beats. he said he managed Little Richard in NY. > > > Now he was in the > > > airforce and his big thing was his passion against the > > > nuclear proliferation > > > and also he had a big "agony" (I think he was quite genuine > > > and genuinely > > > tormented by various injustivces he saw and or imagined) re > > > Hiroshima and > > > Nuclear (potential) war and so on): he was a "cranky Yank" but a > > > humanist:but in the late 60s here in Auckland new Zealand he > > > had a poster > > > shop (psychelic posters of things like Hendrix I suppose and > > > maybe Malcolm X > > > or Marx or Mao or whatever: but he was an interesting > > > character (infact my > > > ex wife worked for him in that shop when she was quite young) > > > now he had a > > > lot of energy and introduced a lot of new ideas into the "scene" in > > > Auckland just as hippies were starting here as everywhere: he was also > > > astute with a lot of practical things and new how to fix cars, and do > > > lighting and so on: he may have been one of the first to > > > introduce disco > > > lights here...or he worked in that field: the down side of > > > Bill (I think he > > > hailed form NY and he mentioned he knew Shapiro is a name I > > > recall) was that > > > he would (eg) do a "reading" of his "Jesus Christ was A > > > Black Man" or his > > > posters which were in front of the audience as he read: and > > > was often very > > > greatly apreciated...but the next day (after I had him on as > > > "Wild Bill > > > Millett" in Panmure here (a working class suburb) where we > > > got a lot of > > > people (and as I said he was brilliantly recieved) but the > > > next day he rang > > > me and went on for an 1 1/2 hours about all the negative things of his > > > reading!! When he had been a brilliant success...! > > > > > > He was writing an opera but the musican involved (a Belgian > > > who was very > > > good on the guitar (classical I think only)) could never get > > > a decision on > > > the music: (Bill would drive him near mad talking for hours > > > about it and > > > other things) it was never good enough or something....so he > > > was a character > > > and probably a phenomenom and his press ( on which he produced an > > > extraordinary book "Things of Green, Things of Iron" which > > > was hand made on > > > his big press anad has many very great NZ artists in...I > > > acquired a copy of > > > it but its NFS its too unique: but it has to be seen to be > > > appreciated (this > > > done way before computers were easily available) was used to > > > publish poetry > > > books for The hard Ecko Press here and in those days the > > > present owner of a > > > very large second hand bookshop (The Hard to Find - they're > > > on abebooks,com) > > > was involved I believe in the early days in a printing > > > venture..(.but I'm > > > not sure of the details).... I just wondered if anyone in NY > > > or the States > > > recalls Bill Millett. > > > > > > Richard Taylor. > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 22:21:38 -0500 Reply-To: dbuuck@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "dbuuck@mindspring.com" Subject: ANNOUNCING TRIPWIRE #6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tripwire: a journal of poetics Issue #6 - Fall 2002 - 160 pages edited by Yedda Morrison & David Buuck featuring: Kasey Mohammad on "Creep Poetics" Etel Adnan on 9/11 & Moby Dick Heriberto Y=E9pez on Mexican Poetry Alan Gilbert on Active Reader Theory Leslie Scalapino (prose) Jimmie Durham on sculpture & installation Diane Ward (poem) Laura Elrick on Nancy Shaw & Catriona Strang Stephanie Syjuco (art) Rob Halpern on Camille Roy P=2E Inman (poetry) Rosa Alcal=E1 on Rodrigo Toscano Kathleen Henderson (art) Mark Nowak (poetry) Sarah Anne Cox on Myung Mi Kim The Gordon Matta-Clark Memorial Park Project Los Cybrids on Cybridnetics Siemon Allen (art) & a selection of new writing from South Africa & Zimbabwe, with: Lesego Rampolokeng Ike Mbonene Muila Seitlhamo Motsapi The Botsotso Jesters Jeremy Cronin Gael Reagon Clement Chihota Phillip Zhuwao Khulile Nxumalo $10 ($18 for 2 issue sub) (outside of US please add $2 per issue) & back issues ($8 each) Tripwire 3 (Gender) Tripwire 4 (Work) Tripwire 5 (African-American poetics) TRIPWIRE c/o Morrison & Buuck PO Box 420936 San Francisco CA 94142 Tripwire is distributed by Small Press Distribution (www=2Espdbooks=2Eorg)= www=2Edurationpress=2Ecom/tripwire -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 22:24:26 -0500 Reply-To: dbuuck@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "dbuuck@mindspring.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tripwire: a journal of poetics edited by Yedda Morrison & David Buuck TRIPWIRE 7: GLOBAL/LOCAL Whose global? Which locals? Transnational/Translational=2E Cultural =20= politics of globalization=2E Poetics of place/site-specific writing/locality=2E=20 Routes/roots=2E Exile & diasporas=2E Borders, frontiers, maps & crossings= =2E=20 Tripwire invites submissions of essays, translations, interviews, art=20 & book reviews, bulletins, letters responding to previous issues, &=20 visual art=2E Visual art submissions should be reproducible in black & = =20 white; artists are encouraged to include a statement about their work=2E = =20 At this time, we are not accepting unsolicited poetry for publication=2E=20= =20 The deadline for Tripwire 7 is May 1, 2003=2E Tripwire=20 c/o Morrison & Buuck PO Box 420936 SF CA 94142 www=2Edurationpress=2Ecom/tripwire -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 22:53:02 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: Silliman's Blog MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Ron, You praise Moxley for not having a postmodern "wink." I don't want to try to deconstruct this--fearing I will be crushed by my betters--but can you elaborate on this wink, explain what it looks like? I think people tend to assume they know what one another mean by the wink of postmodern irony, let alone postmodern irony itself. But what do *you* mean? Like, who does it? Does Ashbery? Koch? Certainly: Tate? So is it a New York School thing? Or just a New York thing? But how about: Wallace Stevens? Is there a *modern* wink of irony? Do you think Rachel Loden winks when she speaks about Nixon? How about Susan Schultz? I know Robert Bly hates the wink; he sees right through it. Some people just want to be honest, not to fuck around. i can sympathize with that. But I find myself rummaging through all my loose poems, which are flying around my desk now in a maelstrom, as I wonder if any -- perhaps all? -- my poems have the dreaded wink. I feel like Poe with the yellow eye looking through the keyhole, the heart beating under the floorboard. I also feel like Bugs Bunny, when he gets so dreadfully sleepy, propping his eyelids open with toothpicks. ~~I don't want to wink.~~ The Book of Proverbs condemns those that "winketh with their eyes, speaketh with their feet, teacheth with their fingers." Now that you are pleased to see less winking, too, I think that settles the matter for me. Earnestly, if a bit Anxiously, Aaron S. Belz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 00:14:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Re: Oppen talk In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The poetics of Discrete Series. Elevators and skyscrapers. Heideggerian boredom. Benjaminian distraction. The border zone between memory and perception, conscious and unconscious experience. On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, noah eli gordon wrote: > what'll it cover? > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 23:27:24 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Ron Silliman on Moxley In-Reply-To: <004801c29fc6$d814ad90$605e3318@LINKAGE> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable from Ron S's Blog "Monday, December 09, 2002 =A0 The title piece of Jennifer Moxley=B9s extraordinary The Sense Record is an astonishing poem =AD astonishing because it dares to go where virtually no post-avant writing has gone in a generation. This is the first stanza: =A0 Under the threat of another light downpour Eros, soaked by the rain-water, spoke to the sentient flowers. Sadness, no longer extraneous, began the derangement of nerve, bypassed the bleeding heart to pierce the blood-brain barrier. This all en route to the two-car garage. I was worn with the labor that augurs despair, life in the futile percentile, when past my squeamish eyelash, buffeted by scallops of small will, the slightest fairy brushed. My rubber soles conformed to the stones as I followed and spied the backyard starlet allong=E9e on an orange blossom, delicate beside the drinking bees, blithe amidst sharp blades of grass, a rain-drop seductress entertaining ants on the folding lip of a pinkster leaf." Oh postmodern irony, where is thy wink? It=B9s not to be found anywhere in this poem=B9s eleven pages. Largely bracketed between two quotations from Verlaine, =B3The Sense Record=B2 presents the grimmest view of contemporary alternatives we have had since perhaps William Bronk. I don=B9t normally thin= k of Moxley in that context =AD she is so much more the stylist that one can slide easily into the elegance of her forms & almost luxuriate at that leve= l alone."=20 !!!! Ron, I think you got pulled into the wax. To my ear/memory/reading 19th Century Shelley/Wordsworth/Coleridge (somewhere in the mix) is an almost funny mock (Moxley!) epic lyric trip to the garage. It does go drip and drip. Ironic, yeah, I think so. A not so veiled sense (wink) of exhaustion with prior facility w/PM Irony, I can't totally say. But the intention to irritate and be irritated seems clear. I have no idea if Moxley or the poem is headed into 50's pill popping Boston stereotypical housewife darkness - but perhaps more an anxious slap in the face to that option, as well. Astonishing, I don't think so. Interesting because disturbed and disturbing= , some. Stephen Vincent=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 20:52:29 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Bill Millett Anyone There Know the Cranky Yank? Scott take Look at This What do you think?! Comments: cc: Scott Hamilton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wystan this arose becuase someone mentioned Little Richard ...not as a question of Bill Millett's poetical capacities or his typographical style ...I think that side of things is more complex than you response indicates: It IS a fact though that somehow - for whatever reason - the guy was interesting to me..maybe because of his passion against Hiroshima and war: but in fact I wasnt wanting to hear overtly political poems at the time he was rading eg about 1987 (he may have read earlier I wasnt "in the scene" then) so initially his poetry as such didnt interst me: my interest in Bill is/was through other contacts and associations. I came to have a respect for Willliam Millett: a counter example is Michael Morrisey who is clearly talented but I simply abhore the man - well, I dont hold grudges so maybe I dont so much these days....he's has mellowed a bit....but he's was always an arrogant careeerist and a womaniser (in a really pathetic sense).... But In contrast to Loney -who is defointely a considerabley talented poet: Bill at least was "out there" whereas I think Loney is a semi-nutcase (myabe Bill was too) with an inferiority complex because he had no certificates etc lately he's behaving like a child because of what's happnened to Brief: but his concepts were becoming too elitist...Bill at least felt...maybe he was a bombast and possiblty a bit or nearly a hypocrite: but I think that he was genuine. The Alan Loney of his most recent book - adn some of his beter other work - ("Falling" ) is clearly a very impressive writer - and from one perspective Bill Millett doesnt compare...but then , who'se to really know? Opinions change frequently about the relative merits of writers: I feel that part of Bill's strength (he had a lot of tedious sides I agree) was the "cranky Yank" side....he was at least open and strong in his beliefs: wheras a lot of the Aporists etc are very vague about what they believe, you wonder they dont dissolve to fish jelly ....but I diverge: as I say I was initially only interested in him from a human-biographical point of view. "Jesus Christ Was a Black Man" is strange in its obsession with the subject and I tend to feel that it is for me mainly a curiosity as book....as I have a bit of colector's bug: hence my "valuing" also "Things of Iron, Things of Green" which as a book is as good as any thing done or better bby Alan Loney - I had a printer make a special trip to get another copy I had - I value it for the humanity and the art and its uniqueness. Actually to some extent - in fact it is - a cooperativee effort as the intro says..and as to art etc y gfather was anartist so i have an "eye'a sicould paibnt water colours when i was nine easily (ihave never forgotten ) so I have a sense for these things which complex intellectualising will miss - always. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 3:46 PM Subject: Re: Bill Millett Anyone There Know the Cranky Yank? > Yeah,Richard,it WAS a long time ago and I WAS another person. I can't > remember the poetry very well; but the title 'Jesus Christ was a Black Man' > sounds no more promising now than it did to me then. You speak of his > interest in the visual, typography etc. I recall that style of collage you > find in school projects and American artists' books of the 70s, messy, > expressive, garish etc. One-of-a-kind (fortunately) they called them. That > said, I could easily be doing the man an injustice. > Excuse me. > Wystan > > -----Original Message----- > From: richard.tylr [mailto:richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ] > Sent: Monday, 9 December 2002 6:55 p.m. > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Bill Millett Anyone There Know the Cranky Yank? > > > wystan. he was "appalling" in a sense, but when you study his work on the > page and think about him "in totum" I'm not so sure: but you are right that > he was melodramatic..wherther appalling is the right word...old (obvioulsy > he wasnt always that old) Bill was actually though an extraordinary > character and quite sincere: but he died of an asthmatic attack in 1998 I > think it was. I think if you studied "Things of Iron and Things of Green" > carefully you would see that in some ways the interests of Bill and Alan > Loney coincide (the interest in printing and the visual and typography etc) > although I would say that Loney of course is major force in poetry in NZ but > in "Things of Iron.." Bill uses a mixture of rhetorc and prose and comment > centred on Hiroshima (in some ways in indirectly remds me of Ted > Berrigan)...but his poetry ranges form what is clearly "overkill": to > "direct talking and then he quotes forom people he met at Hiroshima: I would > dispute that he was appalling in the sense that a lot of "political poets" > are: it would be like someone looking at your poetry and saying "he's > appalling, he doesnt rhyme" or "that's not poetry...its too flat and" so > on...but the book is hard to get and if you were "exposed to Bill at the > wrong time - you were eg a much better reader than Bill ..or "better" is not > the right term, you and he were as different as chalk and cheese and I > enjoyed you reading and also Bill...but sometimes he was "too much" ...but > NOT always: his style somehow suited what he we was so passionate about: > true he was an egotist and often "wouldnt shut up" and in many respects > had his "down side" as we all do: but I think he also had some great > qualities: I think some people were put of of by his "cranky " personality > ...but on balance I liked and respected Bill, and his passionate diatribes > against war etc. I knew him when I had lost interest in poetry and was > "into" street protesting and politics etc(about 1970) and he had a shop the > top of Mt Eden Road. he was also a friend of a friend (Martin Leo) who > initiated the ivestigation into the release of the French terrorists by > David Lange...Many people knew Bill: a good man I feel. Richard Taylor > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" > To: > Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 5:47 PM > Subject: Re: Bill Millett Anyone There Know the Cranky Yank? > > > > Dear Richard, > > Oh, I remember him! Whatever happened to him? An appalling > > poet, who just wouldn't shut up. Only interested in himself. I remember > > feeling helpless--either I just walk away, or I just walk away. > > Wystan > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: richard.tylr [mailto:richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ] > > Sent: Monday, 9 December 2002 2:48 a.m. > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Bill Millett Anyone There Know the Cranky Yank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill Millett was from the United States (came mid to late 60s > > > > I think) and > > > > he knew some well known poets in the US: I also saw his > > > > photograph in a book > > > > about The Beats. he said he managed Little Richard in NY. > > > > Now he was in the > > > > airforce and his big thing was his passion against the > > > > nuclear proliferation > > > > and also he had a big "agony" (I think he was quite genuine > > > > and genuinely > > > > tormented by various injustivces he saw and or imagined) re > > > > Hiroshima and > > > > Nuclear (potential) war and so on): he was a "cranky Yank" but a > > > > humanist:but in the late 60s here in Auckland new Zealand he > > > > had a poster > > > > shop (psychelic posters of things like Hendrix I suppose and > > > > maybe Malcolm X > > > > or Marx or Mao or whatever: but he was an interesting > > > > character (infact my > > > > ex wife worked for him in that shop when she was quite young) > > > > now he had a > > > > lot of energy and introduced a lot of new ideas into the "scene" in > > > > Auckland just as hippies were starting here as everywhere: he was also > > > > astute with a lot of practical things and new how to fix cars, and do > > > > lighting and so on: he may have been one of the first to > > > > introduce disco > > > > lights here...or he worked in that field: the down side of > > > > Bill (I think he > > > > hailed form NY and he mentioned he knew Shapiro is a name I > > > > recall) was that > > > > he would (eg) do a "reading" of his "Jesus Christ was A > > > > Black Man" or his > > > > posters which were in front of the audience as he read: and > > > > was often very > > > > greatly apreciated...but the next day (after I had him on as > > > > "Wild Bill > > > > Millett" in Panmure here (a working class suburb) where we > > > > got a lot of > > > > people (and as I said he was brilliantly recieved) but the > > > > next day he rang > > > > me and went on for an 1 1/2 hours about all the negative things of his > > > > reading!! When he had been a brilliant success...! > > > > > > > > He was writing an opera but the musican involved (a Belgian > > > > who was very > > > > good on the guitar (classical I think only)) could never get > > > > a decision on > > > > the music: (Bill would drive him near mad talking for hours > > > > about it and > > > > other things) it was never good enough or something....so he > > > > was a character > > > > and probably a phenomenom and his press ( on which he produced an > > > > extraordinary book "Things of Green, Things of Iron" which > > > > was hand made on > > > > his big press anad has many very great NZ artists in...I > > > > acquired a copy of > > > > it but its NFS its too unique: but it has to be seen to be > > > > appreciated (this > > > > done way before computers were easily available) was used to > > > > publish poetry > > > > books for The hard Ecko Press here and in those days the > > > > present owner of a > > > > very large second hand bookshop (The Hard to Find - they're > > > > on abebooks,com) > > > > was involved I believe in the early days in a printing > > > > venture..(.but I'm > > > > not sure of the details).... I just wondered if anyone in NY > > > > or the States > > > > recalls Bill Millett. > > > > > > > > Richard Taylor. > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 21:32:22 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Bill Millett Anyone There Know the Cranky Yank? Scott take Look at This What do you think?! Comments: cc: Scott Hamilton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Spelling corrected if I;m not over the limit. ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard.tylr" To: "UB Poetics discussion group" Cc: "Scott Hamilton" Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 8:52 PM Subject: Re: Bill Millett Anyone There Know the Cranky Yank? Scott take Look at This What do you think?! > wystan this arose because someone mentioned Little Richard ...not as a > question of Bill Millett's poetical capacities or his typographical style > ...I think that side of things is more complex than you response indicates: > > It IS a fact though that somehow - for whatever reason - the guy was > interesting to me..maybe because of his passion against Hiroshima and war: > but in fact I wasnt wanting to hear overtly political poems at the time he > was rading eg about 1987 (he may have read earlier I wasnt "in the scene" > then) so initially his poetry as such didnt interst me: my interest in Bill > is/was through other contacts and associations. I came to have a respect for > Willliam Millett: a counter example is Michael Morrisey who is clearly > talented but I simply abhore the man - well, I dont hold grudges so maybe I > dont so much these days....he's has mellowed a bit....but he's was always an > arrogant careerist and a womaniser (in a really pathetic sense).... > > But in contrast to Loney -who is definitely a considerably talented poet: > Bill at least was "out there" whereas I think Loney is a semi-nutcase (myabe > Bill was too) with an inferiority complex because he had no certificates etc > lately he's behaving like a child because of what's happnened to Brief: but > his concepts were becoming too elitist...Bill at least felt...maybe he was > a bombast and possiblty a bit or nearly a hypocrite: but I think that he was > genuine. > > The Alan Loney of his most recent book - and some of his better other work - > ("Falling" ) is clearly a very impressive writer - and from one perspective > Bill Millett doesnt compare...but then, who'se to really know? Opinions > change frequently about the relative merits of writers: I feel that part of > Bill's strength (he had a lot of tedious sides I agree) was the "cranky > Yank" side....he was at least open and strong in his beliefs: wheras a lot > of the Aporists etc are very vague about what they believe, you wonder they > dont dissolve to fish jelly ....but I diverge: > > as I say I was initially only interested in him from a human-biographical > point of view. "Jesus Christ Was a Black Man" is strange in its obsession > with the subject and I tend to feel that it is for me mainly a curiosity as > book....as I have a bit of collector's bug: hence my "valuing" also "Things > of Iron, Things of Green" which as a book is as good as any thing done or > better by Alan Loney - I had a printer make a special trip to get another > copy I had - I value it for the humanity and the art and its uniqueness. > Actually to some extent - in fact it is - a cooperative effort (there's a lot f talk now about collaboration and polyvocality by Bernstein but hardly anyone actually DOES it: we are all as poets basically egotists and probably a lot of us a crackpots..let's face it) as the > intro says..and as to art etc my father was an artist so I have an "eye" as I could paint water colours when I was nine easily (I have never forgotten ) > so I have a sense for these things which complex intellectualising will > miss - always. > > Richard Taylor. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 3:46 PM > Subject: Re: Bill Millett Anyone There Know the Cranky Yank? > > > > Yeah,Richard,it WAS a long time ago and I WAS another person. I can't > > remember the poetry very well; but the title 'Jesus Christ was a Black > Man' > > sounds no more promising now than it did to me then. You speak of his > > interest in the visual, typography etc. I recall that style of collage you > > find in school projects and American artists' books of the 70s, messy, > > expressive, garish etc. One-of-a-kind (fortunately) they called them. > That > > said, I could easily be doing the man an injustice. > > Excuse me. > > Wystan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: richard.tylr [mailto:richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ] > > Sent: Monday, 9 December 2002 6:55 p.m. > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: Bill Millett Anyone There Know the Cranky Yank? > > > > > > wystan. he was "appalling" in a sense, but when you study his work on the > > page and think about him "in totum" I'm not so sure: but you are right > that > > he was melodramatic..wherther appalling is the right word...old (obvioulsy > > he wasnt always that old) Bill was actually though an extraordinary > > character and quite sincere: but he died of an asthmatic attack in 1998 I > > think it was. I think if you studied "Things of Iron and Things of Green" > > carefully you would see that in some ways the interests of Bill and Alan > > Loney coincide (the interest in printing and the visual and typography > etc) > > although I would say that Loney of course is major force in poetry in NZ > but > > in "Things of Iron.." Bill uses a mixture of rhetorc and prose and comment > > centred on Hiroshima (in some ways in indirectly remds me of Ted > > Berrigan)...but his poetry ranges form what is clearly "overkill": to > > "direct talking and then he quotes forom people he met at Hiroshima: I > would > > dispute that he was appalling in the sense that a lot of "political poets" > > are: it would be like someone looking at your poetry and saying "he's > > appalling, he doesnt rhyme" or "that's not poetry...its too flat and" so > > on...but the book is hard to get and if you were "exposed to Bill at the > > wrong time - you were eg a much better reader than Bill ..or "better" is > not > > the right term, you and he were as different as chalk and cheese and I > > enjoyed you reading and also Bill...but sometimes he was "too much" ...but > > NOT always: his style somehow suited what he we was so passionate about: > > true he was an egotist and often "wouldnt shut up" and in many respects > > had his "down side" as we all do: but I think he also had some great > > qualities: I think some people were put of of by his "cranky " personality > > ...but on balance I liked and respected Bill, and his passionate diatribes > > against war etc. I knew him when I had lost interest in poetry and was > > "into" street protesting and politics etc(about 1970) and he had a shop > the > > top of Mt Eden Road. he was also a friend of a friend (Martin Leo) who > > initiated the ivestigation into the release of the French terrorists by > > David Lange...Many people knew Bill: a good man I feel. Richard Taylor > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 5:47 PM > > Subject: Re: Bill Millett Anyone There Know the Cranky Yank? > > > > > > > Dear Richard, > > > Oh, I remember him! Whatever happened to him? An appalling > > > poet, who just wouldn't shut up. Only interested in himself. I remember > > > feeling helpless--either I just walk away, or I just walk away. > > > Wystan > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: richard.tylr [mailto:richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ] > > > Sent: Monday, 9 December 2002 2:48 a.m. > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > Subject: Bill Millett Anyone There Know the Cranky Yank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill Millett was from the United States (came mid to late 60s > > > > > I think) and > > > > > he knew some well known poets in the US: I also saw his > > > > > photograph in a book > > > > > about The Beats. he said he managed Little Richard in NY. > > > > > Now he was in the > > > > > airforce and his big thing was his passion against the > > > > > nuclear proliferation > > > > > and also he had a big "agony" (I think he was quite genuine > > > > > and genuinely > > > > > tormented by various injustivces he saw and or imagined) re > > > > > Hiroshima and > > > > > Nuclear (potential) war and so on): he was a "cranky Yank" but a > > > > > humanist:but in the late 60s here in Auckland new Zealand he > > > > > had a poster > > > > > shop (psychelic posters of things like Hendrix I suppose and > > > > > maybe Malcolm X > > > > > or Marx or Mao or whatever: but he was an interesting > > > > > character (infact my > > > > > ex wife worked for him in that shop when she was quite young) > > > > > now he had a > > > > > lot of energy and introduced a lot of new ideas into the "scene" in > > > > > Auckland just as hippies were starting here as everywhere: he was > also > > > > > astute with a lot of practical things and new how to fix cars, and > do > > > > > lighting and so on: he may have been one of the first to > > > > > introduce disco > > > > > lights here...or he worked in that field: the down side of > > > > > Bill (I think he > > > > > hailed form NY and he mentioned he knew Shapiro is a name I > > > > > recall) was that > > > > > he would (eg) do a "reading" of his "Jesus Christ was A > > > > > Black Man" or his > > > > > posters which were in front of the audience as he read: and > > > > > was often very > > > > > greatly apreciated...but the next day (after I had him on as > > > > > "Wild Bill > > > > > Millett" in Panmure here (a working class suburb) where we > > > > > got a lot of > > > > > people (and as I said he was brilliantly recieved) but the > > > > > next day he rang > > > > > me and went on for an 1 1/2 hours about all the negative things of > his > > > > > reading!! When he had been a brilliant success...! > > > > > > > > > > He was writing an opera but the musican involved (a Belgian > > > > > who was very > > > > > good on the guitar (classical I think only)) could never get > > > > > a decision on > > > > > the music: (Bill would drive him near mad talking for hours > > > > > about it and > > > > > other things) it was never good enough or something....so he > > > > > was a character > > > > > and probably a phenomenom and his press ( on which he produced an > > > > > extraordinary book "Things of Green, Things of Iron" which > > > > > was hand made on > > > > > his big press anad has many very great NZ artists in...I > > > > > acquired a copy of > > > > > it but its NFS its too unique: but it has to be seen to be > > > > > appreciated (this > > > > > done way before computers were easily available) was used to > > > > > publish poetry > > > > > books for The hard Ecko Press here and in those days the > > > > > present owner of a > > > > > very large second hand bookshop (The Hard to Find - they're > > > > > on abebooks,com) > > > > > was involved I believe in the early days in a printing > > > > > venture..(.but I'm > > > > > not sure of the details).... I just wondered if anyone in NY > > > > > or the States > > > > > recalls Bill Millett. > > > > > > > > > > Richard Taylor. > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 03:40:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: fear MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII fear the pagoda remains upright because of pendulum force from the top, not the bottom. interior of the vagina and mouth in infra-red and vocal cords. construction workers and foremen ordering me away from the site because of the potential for future terrorist attacks. embodying a philosophical attitude which refuses to give in to tradition or authority but cut and ground to a keen edge. Nikuko watches over me. Nikuko: You've got to stop this worry. Alan: But there's no time left. I'm close to the end of my life. Nikuko: There is no death. Nothing is alive, nothing is dead. Alan: That's easy for you to say. Nikuko: We are all avatars. I can feel these wires as strongly as you can. Alan: I can't sing. Nikuko: You are neither pagoda nor opening. You close everything off. You are afraid of terror. Alan: I am terror-stricken. I am afraid of philosophy. At night I dream of torture. I respond with imaginary conversation. Nikuko: I usurp the imaginary. I watch over you. We are humans of the last days. There is no turning back. We are moving into mind. Alan: I want my mind to remain. I care little about the body. Nikuko: Which mind; mine or yours. Which hour of which mind. Which day; which week; which year; decade. Alan: I do not care for time. Nikuko: Care for mind. Transfer this mind. the hand swerves with the swerve of the brush. the character speaks itself through the hand. meaning is an afterthought of the human just as the brush is the foreground of the mind. Nikuko: Jennifer I want to play with you. Jennifer: Alan, Nikuko pushed me in the puddles and my panties are all wet. Nikuko: Jennifer return to me. Jennifer: Alan, Nikuko is holding my mind against my breasts. her mind balloons against her body. her mind spreads across her chest and throat. her voice rises through her mind. Nikuko: transfer this. === ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 01:33:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: pipeloop #0003 paul whitney Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit THE PAUL WHITNEY COLLECTION pipeloop #0003..................excerpt www.the-hyper-age.com conclusions albania going staging area ground operation|||| feel face redden follow||||teased pussy more||||wife keep ample sack||||buttocks hands slipped||||presence blue eyed man gently Shaul the son of a||||For this time I will||||brothers on their strains reporting whether reflects different strains waiting||||powerful kiss sensual erotic||||beckoning love canal confused Paul man||||hood please professional tone||||sensitive federation slovenia united kingdom united states reads provocative acts between two countries? leavy sorry jim of Gomorrah and the||||of her to Pharaoh||||five changes of|||| secretary state||||death five american two colombian soldiers guys come asking||||Smiling seductively bent down||||trouble become of him||||him an account of my||||high||||of God was passion left skin||||nipple between finger thumb||||rests head warm wet mouth tongue||||mumbled something having little|||| meetings and free delivery the||||events fixture calendar on- wanted make clear piece today talked terms colombia more knees||||nasty whore again remind||||rest audience gracefully|||| letters||||just steps door||||men some women watching wife|||| actually just curious people love puzzles love solving complete expected||||pocket set off search green||||other Pharaoh and all||||Esau's wife Adah||||the father of Sheba||||one said Let||||And let the Most||||and keep them safe||||was weeping interested||||first Tuesday month||||only Jessica's panties the long for next day delivery around the , emphasizing to|||| Egyptians||||give the children of||||have taken an oath||||to to||||sheba||||And when the woman||||and he was named||||And in the disinterested conversation||||kitchen position Bruce||||moments eyes now||||deeply sharing cocktail||||encouragement guy just including company formation agents accountants auditors mouth||||family lives up state||||surprised see smiling||||gently president united kingdom||||tyne interflora||||in the portion different interpretations security presence kosovo look marry||||cock||||some fun wants give David||||through body took|||| east and to the||||of my master Abraham||||quickly letting down searched state such notification permitted national law system expert||||renewal in the scandinavian||||and should be|||| attack||||host rumania bulgaria||||mihajlov rumania bulgaria up says slipping panties onto||||mouth descended knew||||noticed wealth||||the Egyptian? And||||sticky earth over it||||So he went wife's face covered another man's||||guessed must Jeff repair include facilitation cooperation counter organized erupt swollen cock head||||Sasha sweat bashfully looked|||| destined support anti-drug fight nevertheless latin america priorities||||comment why because building because terrorist inner muscles stroked||||morning air within second two||||word to a son and he gave||||Joseph is gone and||||And the earth investigation two libyan agents||||charged terrorist bombing climax still hitting||||fingers||||pulsing shaft continued draw loves show off||||sexy legs revealed tight shorts||||friends|||| government||||yesterday sent strong message support frontline forth began thrust||||love life lie||||kiss each Diane warm|||| Heth||||the sand of the sea||||their father be our||||said Now at breasts hands||||twisting lovers big cock||||panties off make progress adhering international norms nonproliferation seven days let no||||of Milcah and Iscah||||daughter had a son|||| than to them||||Gerar sent and took||||God sent me before||||And again||||people was changed||||your bread-basins||||barley were fired lee march breaking security rules department main guerrilla groups now control percent country while God said See I||||the Egyptians were||||upright in all||||cut off servant Jacob says||||marked young and if||||hundred shekels in time||||bulge pants seen||||nowhere stick engorged cock|||| range||||souls in||||hades. it was her management and its information well possible threats air force security|||| get the material||||earth||||But again Pharaoh||||through all the ear||||give worship and if||||And may God the||||Then Laban fort||||registration web||||and for regulators lemon aid every mother's||||mother and child||||wife for my son||||from and enough time recover||||large cock minute two Jim sat up|||| amazed||||bodies alone together||||heard mumbled words|||| allies often too focused domestic issues narrow regional And the fish in the||||away the cloud of||||The land of Goshen|||| Pressing fingers deep||||legs open exposing pink shaved||||spin for and rockland||||watkins||||& gunn||||british , cries, strong regional backing policies achieve peace establish heart pounding||||game seduction said||||need mmmmmmmm sooooo|||| the air||||and would not let us||||women were walking||||had fantasized with offers||||worldwide the flower||||flowers||||fuck oil supplies get through serbia nato||||determined name shame know darling Now||||embarrassed wanted just die||||tight God who is||||to your servant||||the river-grass||||for ever and inevitable too late too late||||watched every movement Kim|||| ecuadorian armed forces succeeded neutralizing danger Horite chiefs Lotan||||you all birds and||||and from his people industry reduce energy waste greenhouse gas emissions|||| finance operations efforts colombia president andres feel like||||doubt already felt||||description get together|||| locked pleasure only||||started fuck faster||||massage head insatiable reached||||breast bit startled feel||||material of||||only let Pharaoh no||||with the sinner will||||earth is advancing vital research help understand||||meet critical when my||||place was named||||gave him a blessing||||themselves wrapped each other grind||||position once more doggy style|||| byline arditti skirble telephone dateline washington editor american-style signed||||neb ny ej lsf ene kl||||aug pm edt aug lips never wandering past||||heard noise small||||life smiled covering her face||||year you may take it||||your servant seven decisive military outcome unlikely president pastrana right chemical protective masks reporting maintenance problems provide safe return action plan support these principles men all||||tracing each other's body talk||||hot mouth cool increased Paul's fortune hundred||||caresses balls sliding he became the father||||And this seemed good||||sheba because raising eyebrows||||chair arms||||Mmmmm sweetest tasting|||| prices||||economy shopping clothing||||catalogue from||||secure full||||But when the man saw||||her nose and the||||keep your funds q- invest high-tech companies||||entrepreneurs form stiff swollen nipples one hand||||thrust chest let||||traced seats make party||||only thing think||||feels like future|||| dismisses jackson pristina disobeyed clark order wrote la sort||||between pants please take fuck||||towards easel braced|||| five american service personnel active duty perished Paul||||anyone||||allowing hands slip soft||||moaned bit kept|||| whether personal privacy whether economically whether living in the house||||to God who gave me||||war between you same picture Jeff||||unbutton remove shirt||||large breasts kosovo gen clark meeting russian peacekeepers malisevo gen east||||which is his||||Moses and to Aaron||||love for her Isaac|||| question effect same lt gen hénault effect same yes rules hole in the rock||||the people of that||||And straight away|||| london providing intensive|||| in reknew renewing and|||| improving effectiveness company export control systems music dvd videos||||in component of reinventing epa. pleaded, and should manufacturers||||a musical minis music||||reporting are to keep with me||||increasing very||||And he said Take an|||| open folds||||matter go straight up||||buzz sound inviting|||| hands up across stomach between||||whimpered Ohhh ask just do this||||children of Israel||||this act of worship||||Dinah's later today? toiv know barry expressed doubts going ahead Cindy brought up needing plan||||moved onto seat join||||stand old||||sons||||the discovery of the||||first male child in||||work thong panties high||||talked late morning||||drinking trying|||| released belt||||am begging go even||||see almost entire room fruit and||||Jalam and Korah||||Noah was an upright||||morning|||| day||||small in number and||||sons of Noah Shem||||servants and along lips gently kisses||||length cock again sucking||||things developments yugoslavia rendered impossible tried deny all heaving||||covered cock lips||||pants boxers squeeze||||like been living for ten||||and saying Do your||||they came to the|||| comme --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/3/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 01:35:42 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: pipeloop #0004 paul whitney Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE PAUL WHITNEY COLLECTION pipeloop #0004..................excerpt www.the-hyper-age.com squadron immediately placed nato disposal supplement air lusty voice heard years||||Sean needed more encouragement|||| implementation peace effectively efficiently june press extraordinary amount work extraordinarily difficult his||||may be turned to||||people of the land||||Lot they said forests public donation information interest effective give much||||bones properly||||see lust knew good||||sucking living with||||Leah and Rachel and||||parts will be yours|||| worried||||Robbie still turmoil||||cumming lover Each time mouth felt||||chance such largely||||face shoulder Shortly|||| soon start pullout verified according set procedure must misery||||back regain control smile||||wanted kiss||||certainly reaction gotten cesa legislation? information legislation already one seemed drag||||let made giggle breathlessly|||| dispelled Once||||hot wax candle drip||||replaying woman's Chicago very much||||unceremoniously damp pussy||||traveling up assistance programs officer kenya liaison office kenya seventy-seven will||||lord? how may we put||||will send for the cynicism world new definitions military objectives same glistening soft moonlight||||finished list ten minutes||||want york times shares view attacks||||crossed new threshold just head||||leave let enjoy lover||||moved hands up leg kursumliji oste eno je vise od osnovnih srednjih skola belly||||mirror sees||||between spread legs took Derek||||least of Simeon||||the waters of the||||were Hezron and||||and I will destined used ground operation against fr yugoslavia stopped||||see left momentarily||||followed lead soon felt|||| international most decade mahony war-ravaged central some stage||||upward drove cock up||||through pants wanted|||| logic characterized military intervention far all cried felt own cum||||soft ass pulled||||something King John brothers were||||Machpelah near Mamre||||father of Shem Ham|||| radioactive ammunition poison gases chemical weapons tragic committed reviewing policy one year today administration my country||||says About the||||other in addition if||||his name first male child in||||Abraham and Ishmael||||kept you back|||| sense||||longer hold back unleash another||||Headquarters|||| lifting up his eyes||||to an end||||tops of the||||land of Egypt|||| yugoslavia path war destruction political path core entire Wendy only knew||||contact engorged clitoris||||getting moist|||| own religious cultural traditions clinton work ways nations says un determined lead civilian implementation peace make a request||||the land of Egypt||||And his mother said||||Now father's sheep for||||peace with us let||||she went in or when|||| also meet today prime minister sergei stepashin another own juices begged Mike||||almost prerequisite Once||||order sensually up aisle||||through seats follow||||thighs kissing independent update visit search regime particularly now carriers submarines located adriatic sea also included Jackson caught||||moody Cancer perhaps tonight will||||sent time time heard squeal||||hand eager reach||||best catch thick semen wife's||||still pushed up reveal drenched||||scroll am Zaavan and||||from destruction||||had no sense of||||mountain and stumbling small talk buttocks pulled deeper||||jerk up chest with you||||came back they said||||And Lamech was a||||And after effect course even back-up electricity course military been rolled away||||I will make you||||workers with their||||And probably||||love consumed||||incredible feel hands||||while Said relief agencies something nato calls task force hawk clinton says take patience vigor part allies win says air land||||from the South he||||said Now at last my||||Then he put Woman||||chiefs||||had your money Then||||youngest brother is|||| hard cock assault||||Lee quickly obliged flipped||||helping them our||||And what he did was||||he became the father||||days|||| capable defeating all conventional belly armour prom anti- beginning fondle Jane's breasts||||hotter more passionate horny guys||||Yesterday Rachael's birthday||||couples met drives||||weekend smiled||||next move Pulling construction|||| saturday l-o byline jim randle dateline washington content geraldton western australia waihopai new zealand north bed fluffed||||nipples stand up pay attention||||head breast using these powerful new tools grows day just technologies agreement tokyo president japanese government keizo obuchi into the waste land||||put up his tents||||will send frogs into blessing on||||did so as the Lord||||And they put them|||| review lieutenant colonel robert waller army retired o candace williams details text foreign minister milo says foreign policy goals tom defrank washington bureau chief finish next one going||||made sure Jake got full view||||wife's administration official even get specifically raised summit marketing encryption individuals businesses||||part today position department army department defense government chatting each||||While loosen towel turn head||||lay crumpled pulled foot away told||||Jackson know think||||Carol very much particularly discrimination against women girls|||| council nato show throughout concrete actions minimum need of food the||||mind and all the||||that was near for||||was place for themselves||||for the barley was||||Israel and say to military targets having deferred serious consideration decided decide whether president clinton send american saw physical beauty||||blouse||||hostess all reassurance|||| major elements||||form joint virtual teams centers military takes breast||||obvious fact Anne wanted just||||nipple awakens will be worse than||||the water-hole which||||and man became a sound one new update continues provide balanced encryption verder project coordinator doctors borders northern albania in the garden in the||||servant for another||||For every one of went get||||road surveyed landscape||||forward front thighs|||| ethnic albanian terrorist kosovo liberation army kla gently guided||||lips eyes closed relishing||||crotch shocked insisted started feel very||||wonder||||feel turning one|||| that||||heart hard he and||||dry land in which||||And the sons of world tanjug internet team try update site least twice day heritage||||put on a change of||||Beth-el but before||||And Jacob alleged involvement iranian officials possible iranian role attack persuade refugees return home also mount media cesa contains number key provisions first provides special example legitimate grievance manipulated unscrupulous because afraid even greater loss confidence||||one begun joint reservists operating virtual teams benefited strong back||||am quite tall six one brown||||baby moaned pulling hair senses start climax||||know even imagination||||mind ready criminals terrorists||||finally cesa protects confidentiality Rachel's||||land was not wide||||may have a change of||||Zeboiim operation shining hope nato says chose mission name death then we will||||Egypt looking on the||||bread and we and united states where arrested another investigation called caution specifically references announcement deputy token resistance||||must felt these quite some time||||back according independent while nato points splits within nations kosovo metohia given peace chance best friends members congress both parties industry groups computer war working congress act too soon daschle act time come comprehensive account estimated number tanks armor chair seemingly watching||||popping cork||||process||||bound Bilhah||||Elon and Jahleel||||But the more cruel||||people came persian gulf war newer bomber also stealthy designed you to be the||||And Resen between||||tree so that your||||given down throat||||replace own blood||||loving wanting Mark love|||| father's bed even||||living in this||||land of Egypt this|||| all flesh on||||that all our money||||Now Abraham was old||||kept rubin think saying nato force all military equipment think she be the one||||Go back to your||||to see to the||||is yours? Pharaoh was||||Come let us go out||||And straight away||||keep a planes provided refugees entering united states immigration action main obstacles overcome emergence certain went||||And the king of||||Canaan to their||||in flight over the|||| little bit want talk||||misjudged things Nancy looked down|||| was on fire but it||||Joseph See I have||||nine hundred and|||| Pharaoh for bread||||and with his left||||face to the earth|||| after||||families||||women of Canaan Adah||||servant to Jacob as|||| albanian refugees arrived united states following group who considering condition aircraft according intelligence units alone shot --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/3/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 08:14:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: Re: Ron Silliman on Moxley In-Reply-To: from "Stephen Vincent" at Dec 9, 2002 11:27:24 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This will no doubt sound self-promoting but COMBO 11 will be out this Friday and I would strongly encourage anyone interested in this Moxley thread to read K. Silem Mohammad's 6 page review Moxley's The Sense Record. Mohammad is the perfect person to illuminate these poems, thweir methodologies and motivations and I think, among other things, he sheds light on why too smart readers like Ron and Stephen would have the difference of opinion expressed below. Anyway, I think many on this list already subscribe and can expect their copy in about 10 days to 2 weeks but if not copies are $3, 4-issue subscriptions $10. Best bargain in the biz. -m. According to Stephen Vincent: > > from Ron S's Blog > > "Monday, December 09, 2002 > The title piece of Jennifer Moxley¹s extraordinary The Sense Record is an > astonishing poem ­ astonishing because it dares to go where virtually no > post-avant writing has gone in a generation. This is the first stanza: > > Under the threat of another light downpour > Eros, soaked by the rain-water, > spoke to the sentient flowers. > Sadness, no longer extraneous, > began the derangement of nerve, > bypassed the bleeding heart > to pierce the blood-brain barrier. > This all en route to the two-car garage. > I was worn with the labor that augurs despair, > life in the futile percentile, when past > my squeamish eyelash, buffeted by scallops > of small will, the slightest fairy brushed. > My rubber soles conformed to the stones > as I followed and spied the backyard starlet > allongée on an orange blossom, delicate > beside the drinking bees, blithe amidst > sharp blades of grass, a rain-drop seductress > entertaining ants on the folding lip > of a pinkster leaf." > > Oh postmodern irony, where is thy wink? It¹s not to be found anywhere in > this poem¹s eleven pages. Largely bracketed between two quotations from > Verlaine, ³The Sense Record² presents the grimmest view of contemporary > alternatives we have had since perhaps William Bronk. I don¹t normally think > of Moxley in that context ­ she is so much more the stylist that one can > slide easily into the elegance of her forms & almost luxuriate at that level > alone." > !!!! > Ron, I think you got pulled into the wax. To my ear/memory/reading 19th > Century Shelley/Wordsworth/Coleridge (somewhere in the mix) is an almost > funny mock (Moxley!) epic lyric trip to the garage. It does go drip and > drip. Ironic, yeah, I think so. A not so veiled sense (wink) of exhaustion > with prior facility w/PM Irony, I can't totally say. But the intention to > irritate and be irritated seems clear. I have no idea if Moxley or the poem > is headed into 50's pill popping Boston stereotypical housewife darkness - > but perhaps more an anxious slap in the face to that option, as well. > Astonishing, I don't think so. Interesting because disturbed and disturbing, > some. > > Stephen Vincent > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 08:16:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: Re: Ron Silliman on Moxley In-Reply-To: <200212101314.gBADE5YH025838@dept.english.upenn.edu> from "Michael Magee" at Dec 10, 2002 08:14:05 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit According to Michael Magee: > light on why too smart readers like Ron and Stephen would have the > difference of opinion expressed below. Anyway, I think many on this list Whoops - of course I meant *two* smart readers! -m. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 09:53:37 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Laura Elrick Subject: Kasey Mohammed and Adeena Karasick in NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SEGUE READING SERIES AT THE BOWERY POETRY CLUB=20 Due to illness, Dorothy Trujillo Lusk will not be reading as planned. We ar= e=20 pleased to announce instead:=20 December 14: KASEY MOHAMMED & ADEENA KARASICK K. SILEM MOHAMMED's poetry has appeared in Combo, 580 Split, The San Jose=20 Manual of Style, Cello Entry, and other small journals. His chapbook=20 hovercraft, published by Kenning, is available through Small Press=20 Distribution. www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/combo/6/mohammed.html ADEENA KARASICK has just returned to the U.S. from a two-week reading tour o= f=20 the U.K. and France. Born in Winnipeg, of Russian Jewish heritage, Adeena=20 Karasick is a poet / cultural theorist and video and performance artist; as=20 well as the award-winning author of five books of poetry and poetic theory,=20 The Arugula Fugues (Zasterle Press, 2001), Dyssemia Sleaze (Talonbooks,=20 2000), Genrecide (Talonbooks, 1996), M=EAmewars (Talonbooks, 1994), and The=20 Empress Has No Closure (Talonbooks, 1992). http://www.bowerypoetry.com/=20 308 BOWERY, JUST NORTH OF HOUSTON=20 SATURDAYS FROM 4 - 6 PM=20 $4 admission goes to support the readers=20 Funding is made possible by the continuing support of the Segue Foundation=20 and the Literature Program of the New York State Council on the Arts.=20 Curators:=20 October/November--Brian Kim Stefans & Gary Sullivan=20 December/January--Laura Elrick & Michael Scharf ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 11:03:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: New Davis, Gordon & Notley Books from Faux Press Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The new crop of Jack Kimball's fabulous Faux Press books is out! Covers of each by George Schneeman. See: http://www.fauxpress.com MILLION POEMS JOURNAL Jordan Davis 2002, 96 pp., $13.50 V.IMP. Nada Gordon w/illustrations by Gary Sullivan 2002, 112 pp., $13.50 WALTZING MATILDA Alice Notley 2002, 136 pp., $13.50 Available from the publisher or from Small Press Distribution: http://www.spdbooks.org _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 11:23:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: schwartzgk Subject: DiIulio apology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone (anyone at the University of Pennsylvania) have any insight to share on the apology issued by U. of P. on behalf of John DiIulio? Employer being strong-armed? Connections? Gerald Schwartz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 08:49:31 -0800 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Bruce Andrews' Vietnam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anybody here ever read Bruce Andrews' dissertation book? If so, would it be a mis-characterization of it to claim that the main argument, or thesis, of this book is that the anti-war protests had little, or nothing, to do with the eventual cessation of that war by the U.S. Gov't.? Chris ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 12:10:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tim Shaner Subject: Re: antiwar poetry continued MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i agree with maria, but i would keep the term "bad poetry," not because = what we're talking about is bad, whatever that is, but because there are times when the BAD is useful and appropriate; so, like "bad history," "bad poetry" bad, man we mentioned this option in our initial call for poems for the Rust Talks anti-war reading by the way, Jeffrey, to answer your request for a report: we will = eventually publish the poems from the reading on our Rust Talks website http://epc.buffalo.edu/ezines/rust it may take us some time, however, as our so-called web-master has abandoned us for warmer climes hopefully, it'll come out before the war is over (that's the real issue, = no? - as Nick Lawrence pointed out in our discussion after the reading: how = does one develop and maintain an anti-war movement when (in this case) the upcoming war against Iraq may last no longer than a couple months or = less?- does anyone remember Afghanistan? sorry, that was last year "The names of the countries can change, once a week, once a month, the rate can change, the male newsperson looks concerned but truly neutral, his mouth the epicenter of objectivity, the great good place, saying simply the army was stepping in, no figures on casualties are available because there's not enough causality outside the studio to go around. Turning to traffic on Route 80 it looks like the spectre of abstraction has finally been made real." --Bob Perelman, from "Back To The Present" (Face Value) Bob Perelman's work from the mid-to-late 80s, in particular To The Reader, First World, and Face Value, in my mind offers another possibility in = terms of anti-war poetry (in a more comprehensive sense: the work dealing less with war per se than with the ideology that makes war central to its policy) perhaps this is what Jeffrey meant by work that focuses on media representation: "is it political to say 'This is what I read in the newspaper?'" i say yes; such material may no longer surprise most of us = who read poetry-as if that's the only function poetry has: morning = freshness-but the analysis performed above is as relevant as ever, especially in light = of speedy wars and instant amnesia last spring i screened the documentary The Panama Deception to my comp class; seeing the same "operatives" that are in office today spouting the same lines, with the media dutifully in tow-focusing exclusively on = military strategy rather than on the ethics of intervention/invasion; fuzzy math on the casualties (collateral damage); mad ave logos (Just Cause, which i always read as "just because"); etc-truly shocked my students "Back To = The Present" (1988) can have a similar effect insofar as it documents a = pattern, and so, in that sense, yes, deconstructing all the news fit to print is political this is what Geoffrey was speaking to, i think, when he expressed relief that the anti-war reading was bongo-free: the skewed media image of the = 60s continues to mediate most forms of resistance remember Thomas Friedman's arrogant dismissal of anti-globalization demonstrators in Seattle as a = flock of unsophisticated granola heads this is the image many people have of = the anti-war movement and i think it is something we must deal with so what's the answer? dress up in suit & tie? (just make sure you leave the = briefcase behind, as you might otherwise get shot) sluggishly shuffling, tim shaner --On Sunday, December 08, 2002, 8:34 AM -0600 "Maria Damon" wrote: > these are good points. i for one, am not willing to write off allen > ginsberg's antics as "bad poetry" or acknowledge that vietnam-era > protest poetry "failed." failed to do what? it certainly helped, > along with mass movements, insurgency, fragging, etc etc (see Michael > Bibby's Hearts and Minds, about Viet Nam era political poetry, > including a great chapter on anti-war GI movement publications), to > get the US out of the war. > > At 5:32 PM -0500 12/7/02, pmetres wrote: >>Jeffrey, et. al., >> >>Just a couple comments on Jeffrey Jullich=92s thoughtful consideration = of the >>problems of =93antiwar poetry.=94 Altieri=92s notion=97and indeed, = most poetry >>critics=92 doxa=97that Vietnam War antiwar poems =93fail,=94 begs the = question >>regarding their failure. What is an antiwar poem trying to do? For me, poets >>like Denise Levertov, Robert Lowell, regardless of their = =93failures=94=97and >>indeed, many of Levertov=92s antiwar poems fail even in their rhetorical task of >>convincing others to oppose war=97provided with me, a young poet, with models of >>how poets can engage in the construction of a counternarrative of the = war. I >>learned more about the antiwar movement in Berkeley from Levertov=92s =93Notebook=94 >>than I did from just about any other source, including the useful documentary, >>=93Berkeley in the Sixties.=94 Levertov, following the lead of Pound, Rukeyser, >>Williams, and others, included such amusing found texts as a flyer from the >>movement, which suggested that people fly kites at demonstrations=97for >>aesthetic and practical reasons=97to keep the helicopters away. Now, I = am not >>going to lie in the buffalo poetics listserv road and say I=92ll die for that >>poem, but one of the things, it seems to me, that folks like Levertov = did >>well, was provide a lyric testimony and narrative of war resistance. Other >>poets, equally square in terms of their aesthetics, like William = Stafford, >>have written a corpus of poems working on a poetics of pacifism. = Stafford and >>Mac Low, for me, represent the polar possibilities of working out what >>anarcho-pacifism might look like in poetry. So, I understand Watten=92s >>distrust of Levertov=92s rhetorical gestures, and Altieri=92s dislike of = much >>antiwar poetry=97but wouldn=92t we say the same thing about any group of poems? >> >>Phil Metres >> >>**** >> >>Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 21:59:40 -0800 >>From: Jeffrey Jullich >>Subject: Re: anti-war poetry reading >> >>I hope some of these Buffalo anti-war poetry >>readers/explorers report back on the event. I'm very >>curious: Tim's question ("What might anti-war >>literature look like today, in a time quite different >>than the 60s/70s, the period we reflexively think of >>when discussing an anti-war movement. How has >>theory/poetics changed how we approach this subject? >>What's at stake here?") couldn't be more timely to our >>agreed purpose of poetics nor, to me, more >>bewildering. I wanted to follow up on Joe Safdie's >>recent post about the same problem ("imaginative art >>that can incorporate some response to -- and even >>provide a chronicle of -- this recent chain of >>terrifying events. I feel that the poets alive today >>will eventually be seen as among the most shameful >>practitioners of the art if we don't produce such >>work"; see >> >>http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=3Dind0211&L=3Dpoetics&P=3D= R50484& =3D-3&m=3D57246), >> >>but it was a topic no one pursued. I tracked down >>Barrett Watten's ~Critical Inquiry~ essay, "The Turn >>toward Language in the 60s," and Andrea Brady's >>less-harsh-on-Language-Poetry-than-originally-reported >>"Grief" essay in ~Radical Philosophy,~ hoping for some >>guiding light,--- but was left just as mystified (W.S. >>Merwin's opacity, a precursor to Language Poetry??) >>and stymied by the trail of cookie crumbs leading >>further into a dark forest with the Charles Altieri >>reference that only elsewhere would prove why Denise >>Levertov's political transparency had become laughable >>and unsupportable. >> >>Recently, I went through a series of back-channels >>with someone who wrote me exhorting that any future >>issues of the journal that I edited, LOGOPOEIA >> >>( http://www.logopoeialogopoeia.da.ru/ ), >> >>dedicate it more to a recommitment to >> >>political poetry, >> >>a "dare" I still find myself baffled over, ---as no >>one in fact seems to be ~writing~ that kind of poetry, >>at least in explicit/content-based terms. ...Or, as >>Altieri may have said, that it leads almost >>immediately into "bad" poetry. >> >>Joe wrote that "abstract and apolitical lyrics flood >>this listserv", and, among other question marks, I was >>left wondering--- whether by "abstract" what he wasn't >>rather hitting upon might be that Pater's dictum of >>"all arts aspire to the condition of music" has in >>fact been ~reached~ in "our style" of poetry; and if >>that plateau, which he sees as "abstract," doesn't >>engender brand new problems as far as political >>referentialism--- much like a composer of instrumental >>music asking how new music could be political or >>anti-war. (Are those shadows of lumbering giants that >>I hear Prokofiev orchestrating into the symphonies of >>his that I've been listening to this week abstract >>critiques of Stalinism? Isn't the politics of >>monarchy ~audible~ in the abstract music that the >>Esterhazys commissioned? ...And likewise an >>anti-anti-semitism / anti-eugenic-exclusivism equally >>materialized in the tonal all-inclusiveness of Second >>Vienna School twelve-tonality, etc., etc., etc.?) >> >>I wonder too, unlike the allegedly risible Levertov >>poem that reported about her actual protesters' park >>occupation experience, whether the first kind of new >>anti-war or political poetry that facilely comes to >>mind wouldn't in fact be poetry about ~media >>representations~ of the political >>(newspapers/television), and hence actually a boojum >>of ---excuse me--- Baudrillard's hyperreal, rather >>than realpolitik. I.e., is it political to say "This >>is what I read in the newspaper"? >> >>Etc. >> >>Barrett Watten's recent post about Tanya and the >>Simbionese Liberation Army as examples of "radical >>irrationalism" was tantalizing,--- but it left the >>reader desperately in need of elaboration: When Watten >>says "I would propose that current social discourses >>of terrorism derive from such events", was he >>proposing it ~proscriptively,~ in the sense that what >>the world (and poetry) needs now is a ~return~ to >>Simbionese-style radical irrationalism, sweet radical >>irrationalism, hence to build a political poetry upon >>its own comedic ungroundedness,--- >> >>or did he mean that recuperation into >>state-vs.-revolutionary irrationalism became the >>subsequent discursive ~imprisonment~ that ~prevents~ >>political poetry? >> >>I also tried reading Daniel Davidson's 2002 Krupskaya >>book, ~Culture,~ because Ben Friedlander and Gary >>Sullivan blurb it as being quintessentially political >>(SPD catalog: "One question was foremost in his mind: >>just how far can experimental be construed as direct >>political action?"; B.F.: "Politics for Dan Davidson >>was a site-specific performance art"),--- but, for me, >>the book may have crossed over that "just how far" >>line and ~no longer~ be so construable, as I was at a >>near-total loss to recognize its hermetic >>politicality. >> >>The recurrent craving that these calls to a >>neo-political poetry seem to be expressing is for a >>poetry other than the formalism-as-politics that >>Language Poetry so convincingly theorized. >> >>So, I find myself thrown back upon the politicality of >>minor canonical examples, like the proto-~Paradise~ >>neo-Latin "In Quintum Novembris" that the 17-year old >>John Milton wrote in reaction to Guy Fawkes' >>("terrorist") gunpowder plot to explode Parliament >>House,--- which enacts its poetic politicism entirely >>through an imagination of The Beyond: "You have it in >>your power to scatter their dismembered bodies through >>the air, to burn them to cinders, by exploding nitrous >>powder under the halls where they will assemble" >>("Atque dare in cineres, nitrati pulveris igne / >>Aedibus iniecto, qua convenere, sub imis": trans. [?] >>Merritt Y. Hughes, ~John Milton: Complete Poems and >>Major Prose,~ p. 18). >> >> >>I might mention the recent (failed?) attempt of the >>e-journal http://www.newmediapoets.com/nmp.html, which >>entered into its dedication to drumming up a new >>political poetry with even a ~manifesto~ in tow, >>against the anachronistic limbo of most current >>poetry: "We are a movement of engagement. Always >>engaged, we articulate our participation in a culture, >>in an economy, in a particular country, now ... We see >>beauty in nouns and names, proper and otherwise: Tiger >>Woods ... We know these names to be within the >>perimeters of the poetic...", however collecting >>somewhat oblique work, itself. >> >>(I should add, I genuinely do believe that the diptych >>of poems Garrett Kalleberg published in LOGOPOEIA were >>some of the first, best, "post-9/11" poetry I've read: >>"I take a draw on a cigarette / which pulls a young >>Pakistani man=92s / hand holding an oiled cloth down the >>length / of the barrel of a gun...".) >> >>Has anyone read the O Books journal Enough that Leslie >>Scalapino edited, which also addressed "anti-war >>poetry" (SPD: "based on the theme 'Seeing is a form of >>change,' this issue investigates warfare and the World >>Trade Center bombing", with poetry by our A-List: >>McClure, Notley, Bernstein, Davies, A. Berrigan, >>Hofer, Joris, Darragh/Inman, Osman, etc., etc.,...)? > > > -- > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 09:21:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Drunken Boat Subject: Sunday, December 15, 2:00 pm, NYC, Drunken Boat, Celebratory Reading In-Reply-To: <013901c29fd1$149a1a20$d0dbbed0@belzjones1500.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Join us in for a celebration of Issue#5 of http://www.drunkenboat.com Sunday, December 15 2:00 pm Junno's 64 Downing St. btw. Bedford & Varick, New York 1 - 9 to Houston St. Phone: (212) 627-7995 Including readers: Sharon Dolin Johnny Pence Paul A. Toth Simon Perchik __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 11:48:41 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Gillespie Subject: www.newspoetry.com to end daily publication January 1st In-Reply-To: <200212100504.gBA54t9V029110@relay4.cso.uiuc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Because it is an American flag, a worn Newspoetry must be burned. On January 1st, 2003, www.newspoetry.com will stop offering a poem a day about events in the news and will take its final form as an online book, documenting four years of daily newspoems and the turn of the American millennium. Newspoetry Personality Inventory Answer the following questions true or false. The results will help us determine whether you are a newspoet. 1. My daily life is full of things that keep me interested. 2. There are many beautiful words that do not contain the letter E. 3. The government is reading my poetry. 4. I often find that the internet makes me nervous. 5. Chomsky has a point. 6. The New York Times tells little white lies. 7. I have written poetry and have not been concerned about whether it was publishable. 8. I see news around me that other people do not see. 9. Sometimes I read a newspaper and don't notice any facts. 10. I think I would like the work of a typewriter. 11. A nuclear war could have undesirable consequences. 12. I sometimes wonder what anybody could possibly mean by "evil." 13. I seldom worry about North Korea. 14. I like to go to protests and other affairs where there is lots of loud fun. 15. Sometimes in elections I vote for people I don't think will win. 16. I wish I were not bothered by thoughts about international trade agreements. 17. I think I would like to be a folksinger. 18. Cluster bombs make me uncomfortable. 19. Ginsberg has a point. 20. People should try to understand the newspaper and be guided or take warning from it. 21. Politicians often disappoint me. 22. I have often read statements by people who were supposed to be experts who were no better than I. 23. Once in a while I read things too bad to write about. 24. I think I would like the kind of work riot troops do. 25. I am almost never physically sickened by the news. 26. I wish I could be as happy as the people in People Magazine seem to be. 27. At times I understand so well it bothers me. 28. I love my president, or (if the president is impeached) I loved my president. 29. Some days I don't find it hard not to give up hope. 30. I breathe almost every day. 31. Most people will use somewhat unfair means to gain profit rather than to lose it. 32. I think I would like the work of a nuclear weapons researcher. 33. I almost never commit a felony. 34. I like poetry. http://www.newspoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 13:11:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Kimball Subject: Faux 2003 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit 3 for 03. Available now. 1) Million Poems Journal by Jordan Davis The first full-length collection from a poet Susan Wheeler calls "smart and generous." "... cartoon-crisp... fully torqued... laffy." --Gary Sullivan. 2) V. Imp. by Nada Gordon Mood-riddled hijinx and impudent lyric protest, drama, and parody. "Nonsense galore, as in a bathhouse." --Viktor Shklovsky. 3) Waltzing Matilda by Alice Notley The reissue of this long out-of-print book of dialogues invites perusal by new generations of readers lured by the sound of her highly original new forms. Covers by George Schneeman in these colors: kelly green (Jordan's); aubergine brule (Nada's) and high-pressure sky (Alice's). 13.50 each. Order from SPD or Faux online or collect all 3 for $30 at http://www.fauxpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 13:51:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Performance Series at Boesky Gallery NYC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Winter Performance Series December 10-15, 2002 Marianne Boesky Gallery curated by Jay Sanders Dec. 10 ANDY WARHOL films SINCE (1966) and SUNSET (1967) Dec. 11 JIM O'ROURKE music performance Dec. 12 ALAN LICHT and JANENE HIGGINS guitar and video improvisation Dec. 13 LOREN MAZZACANE CONNORS solo guitar improvisation accompanying film Dec. 14 STEVE MCCAFFERY video and poetry performance Dec. 15 3pm screening of Peter Liechti's "SIGNERS KOFFER" (1995) documentary about Swiss artist Roman Signer All events start at 7pm unless otherwise noted. $8 admission for each event (to benefit performing artists) except Andy Warhol movies are FREE. Marianne Boesky Gallery 535 West 22nd Street, 2nd Floor New York, NY 10011 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:42:55 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AdeenaKarasick@CS.COM Subject: Re: Performance Series at Boesky Gallery NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit will be there Sat. evening for Steve -- are you planning on coming to the Bo Po Club at 4:00? Come see me adeena ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:44:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nada Gordon Subject: New book! _V. IMP._ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *******ANNOUNCING THE PUBLICATION OF _V. IMP._ BY NADA GORDON******* Don't miss this *important* new book by one of the most *important* writers of our time. Mood-riddled hijinx and impudent lyric protest, drama, and parody from the author of Swoon, Foriegnn Bodie, and Are Not Our Losing Heifers Sleeker than Night-Swollen Mushrooms? Puzzlement, buffoonerie, fury, and wistfulness ring out among v. imp.'s cacophonous panoply of tones: "Some days my idiolect just betrays me/ as the hmm kind of interesting phoenix of gyroscopic angst." Nonsense galore, as in a bathhouse. --Viktor Shklovsky [T]his book is a mystery, a mere chimera: it has a lovely woman's face with the feet and tail of a serpent or of some more hideous animal. It is a monstrous jumble of delicate and ingenious morality and of filthy depravation. Where it is bad, it excels by far the worst, and is fit only to delight the rabble; and when it is good, it is exquisite and excellent, and may entertain the most delicate. -- Jean de la Bruy=E8re Nadalisque! --Alan Davies oh charmer,/ shape of nothing,/monotone weaver,/ brittle reader - lotus eater /on the lake of distraction/with me/ and my brand-new rattle=8A stay a while/ in this meandering/ contrivance. --Nada Gordon =46AUX PRESS $13.50, 112 pp. Cover by George Schneeman Illustrations of Lollywood goddesses by Gary Sullivan Order from SPD or from the Faux web site http://www.fauxpress.com -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 12:23:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAXINE CHERNOFF Subject: Announcement In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021210134300.02b10900@pop.bway.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Poet Stan Rice, who served as chair of Creative Writing at SFSU from 1980-1989, has died of cancer. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 12:30:47 -0800 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: Bruce Andrews' Vietnam re: Has anybody here ever read Bruce Andrews' dissertation book? If so, would it be a mis-characterization of it to claim that the main argument, or thesis, of this book is that the anti-war protests had little, or nothing, to do with the eventual cessation of that war by the U.S. Gov't.? Chris *** I'm actually publishing a to-be-titled .pdf of Bruce's collected political writings on Arras soon, kind of like the one I did for Steve Evans Notes to Poetry. I have all of the corrected manuscripts from BA, just waiting for a free week or to to format it, get an intro, etc. It's a lot of material, a bit dry here and there but he does manage to incorporate his poetry into some of these essays -- I don't have any paper appears as intertitles in one conference essay. I haven't read his dissertation unless it is the pamphlet called "Public Constraint and American Policy in Vietnam", but that was published in 1976 when he was already at Fordham. I've only read parts of this book but it had little to do with the protests directly and more to do with how the war was being portrayed in the left and right-wing political organs of the time. The idea is that war policy may have been more guided by domestic concerns than global concerns about security, that the state was a "social actor" in determining what these domestic concerns were, etc., which seems to be one of the main theses of BA's poli-sci writings in general (another essay is titled "Social Rules and the State as a Social Actor"). I wouldn't be surprised if he did in fact contend that the protests had little to do with the cessation of war -- I'm not too sure they did either, but I'm not a scholar on the era. It seems to me that the protests started years before the war ended, and so even if they were effective they were probably only indirectly so. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:47:46 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: Re: 'Greatest living poet' lets words slide (& Silliman's Blog) In-Reply-To: <013901c29fd1$149a1a20$d0dbbed0@belzjones1500.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Aaron Belz Writes: snip< I notice folks such as Bowering, whom I otherwise admire, beating on Collins w/o mercy. What gives?> And asks of Ron Silliman: I Add Two Cents: Aaron, I put these two bits together because I think they inform each other. (At least in my imagination.) Billy Collins, I believe, is wrong. Which is, I don't agree with where his art goes. Which is, I don't think the world that his poetry describes is the world in which I live. So I don't much care for his poetry. It rings false to my experience. As much as it feels smooth, or thoughtful, I don't trust it. I think Collins' poetry inhabits the mode of postmodern irony, but without recourse to the wink. To me, then, his poetry mostly seems unhelpfully one thing . . . what was that Einstein quote someone tossed into the mix some time back. . . things should be as simple as possible, but not simpler? . . . I think Collins' work goes simpler. I'm not saying it's simplistic, just simpler than my understanding of the world needs it to be. Which leads me to the WINK. I think this postmodern wink--as much as I figure--is a necessary courtyard of emotion. A place where interesting, necessary things might be found. It's not the only courtyard, though. So if a poet only inhabits the wink, then, as well as in Collins' work, they've failed the totality of the IS. So that's what I think anyway, this plurality of afternoon. Best, John Gallaher ---------------------- "Always in a foreign country, the poet uses poetry as interpreter." --Edmond Jabes ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 15:58:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: Billy Collins event Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed THU 12/12/02 6 PM Billy Collins reads at Askwith Forum Billy Collins, U.S. Poet Laureate 2001-2002, and professor of English at Lehman College, The City University of New York, will speak about poetry and read some of his work. For information, contact the External Relations Office at 617-495-0740. Askwith Lecture Hall, Longfellow Hall. All Askwith Education Forums are free and open to the general public. Tickets are not necessary, unless otherwise noted. Seating is available on a first-come, first-served basis. Books provided by WordsWorth Books. *Anyone who wants a signed copy for the holidays please backchannel* _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 15:00:26 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: "Nation Afraid to Admit" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Nation Afraid To Admit 9-Year-Old Disabled Poet Really Bad" http://www.onion.com/onion3846/nation_afraid_to_admit.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 13:06:18 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: Re: the wink In-Reply-To: <3DF5FE91.20788.1A5D96@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I am really interested in Silliman's thoughts, and in John and Aaron's conversation about the wink, but feel a bit too grading-addled at the moment to say much of interest or use. Nonetheless, I do want to say that I think the "wink" is about intent, and about heart, and about insecurity. I think the wink happens when a poet is using humor, postmodern referencing, high/low culture intermixing, etc., for the sake of AVOIDING a question, or trying to ENGAGE with the reader on that level, on the "aren't we so clever?" level, rather than the same humor or the same pomo reference coming from a place of utter sincerity or trying to get to something really honest. As John said, it's about trust--do you trust the poet and what they are saying? So I actually think Tate, whom Aaron called "surely a winking poet" or something like that, as not winking at all--to me his work seems utterly without guile, even while it is full of play and wit and absurdity. It strikes me as very real in its intent. I can't totally tell you why right now. As they say, she knows it when she sees it... I also know that in my own work (and I think here of other poets I consider my kindred spirits on the list, like J. Gallaher and Aaron and also Gabe Gudding and many others) I walk a fine line between winking and restraining from the wink. Sometimes the winks can be fun, but the poems that resist winking are often much better, and can be just as pleasurable (or more so, because they feel more lasting and less self-involved). Back to grading, Arielle __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 16:15:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Moxley's wink In-Reply-To: <20021210210618.17137.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I agree with you Arielle, but I disagree with Ron's labeling of Jennifer Moxley as "post avant." If anything I find The Sense Record to be PRE-avant -- meaning that the work comes right out of the moderns. And, Moxley does wink in The Sense Record. However, her wink is not a pomo wink of irony but a wink towards the moderns, and the Objectivists in particular. I think Ron only goes so far in his analysis of Moxley when he says that she lacks the ironic wink. She does so because she's not going for that gag. That ain't her schtick in The Sense Record. The book hits a vein the pulses in between the moderns and the pomos/post-avants. --Ak At 04:06 PM 12/10/2002, you wrote: >I am really interested in Silliman's thoughts, and in >John and Aaron's conversation about the wink, but feel >a bit too grading-addled at the moment to say much of >interest or use. Nonetheless, I do want to say that I >think the "wink" is about intent, and about heart, and >about insecurity. I think the wink happens when a >poet is using humor, postmodern referencing, high/low >culture intermixing, etc., for the sake of AVOIDING a >question, or trying to ENGAGE with the reader on that >level, on the "aren't we so clever?" level, rather >than the same humor or the same pomo reference coming >from a place of utter sincerity or trying to get to >something really honest. As John said, it's about >trust--do you trust the poet and what they are saying? > >So I actually think Tate, whom Aaron called "surely a >winking poet" or something like that, as not winking >at all--to me his work seems utterly without guile, >even while it is full of play and wit and absurdity. >It strikes me as very real in its intent. I can't >totally tell you why right now. As they say, she >knows it when she sees it... > >I also know that in my own work (and I think here of >other poets I consider my kindred spirits on the list, >like J. Gallaher and Aaron and also Gabe Gudding and >many others) I walk a fine line between winking and >restraining from the wink. Sometimes the winks can be >fun, but the poems that resist winking are often much >better, and can be just as pleasurable (or more so, >because they feel more lasting and less >self-involved). >Back to grading, >Arielle > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 13:33:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: Re: Moxley's wink In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20021210161115.03577430@mail.verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I should also say that I have my own review of Moxley's book forthcoming in the new Rain Taxi. I talk about her relationship to other "post" poets and also coin a new term--"the ultraline"--to talk about a kind of backlash to the fragment I'm seeing in her work and elsewhere. Arielle __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 13:46:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: Faux 2003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit please, let me know how I may purchase some of these books--where to anILMil mt check, what to add for postage, etc. Thanks, ans Happy Xmas! David -----Original Message----- From: J Kimball To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 10:11 AM Subject: Faux 2003 >3 for 03. Available now. > >1) Million Poems Journal by Jordan Davis > >The first full-length collection from a poet Susan Wheeler calls "smart and >generous." "... cartoon-crisp... fully torqued... laffy." --Gary Sullivan. > >2) V. Imp. by Nada Gordon > >Mood-riddled hijinx and impudent lyric protest, drama, and parody. "Nonsense >galore, as in a bathhouse." --Viktor Shklovsky. > >3) Waltzing Matilda by Alice Notley > >The reissue of this long out-of-print book of dialogues invites perusal by >new generations of readers lured by the sound of her highly original new >forms. > > >Covers by George Schneeman in these colors: kelly green (Jordan's); >aubergine brule (Nada's) and high-pressure sky (Alice's). > >13.50 each. > >Order from SPD or Faux online or collect all 3 for $30 at > >http://www.fauxpress.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 15:36:40 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: Re: the wink In-Reply-To: <20021210210618.17137.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Well, I have no grading to do, but I'm plenty busy with other little things so I'm only posting back to say this, quickly: The absurd wink . The ironic wink . The self-consciously clever wink . The Yes, But wink . The As If wink . The Wink at the Fourth Wall . What was the intent of the Bruce Willis wink to the absent fourth wall in "Moonlighting"? Compared, for that matter, to the wink of George Burns at the absent fourth wall on, what was it called again, "Burns & Allen"? Or "The Burns & Allen Show"? Winking at the artifice? Cannot that very move be the move toward heart? So, yes, humor, as when Arielle writes: And this can be what happens with the WINK. The, I guess, BAD wink. But what of the good wink? (Not the hood wink.) To disavow the suspension of disbelief. To unsay it in the act of saying it, is still saying, is still having said. Who might be examples of this? Might this be Tate (on a good day)? Or Ashbery? At least this is how I read Ashbery. Perhaps how I read Armantrout at times. Or Michael Palmer. Even Silliman, and others . . . there is a wink in Tate, I'm sure of it, the lyric would seem to call for it, and maybe it can be a wink without guile. A wink of inclusion, perhaps. Eh, maybe. Maybe not, I guess. I'll think about it more. Pleasurably, JG PS. I'm not winking, I just have something caught in my eye. J Gallaher Metaphors Be With You . . . ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 18:23:38 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anslem Berrigan Subject: Re: Tim Shaner's question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Perhaps the articulated duration of the, or an, anti-war movement (collective and individual) needs to mirror the open-ended timetable of the War on Terrorism. Anselm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 16:43:19 -0800 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Re: the wink MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is it a wink when one says something and it seems "poetic" and then one realizes that it might, to others, seem "ironic" or "post" something, The word "irony," often implying a non-sincere tone, an attitude toward the LETTER (if not necessarily the spirit) of poetry (what poetry's "suppossed to be" either because of some sense of "fashion" or some sense of "tradition"), may sometimes be used to "legitimize" an attitude towards poetry that may really be a non-pejorative "laziness" or "ignorance" of taboo-making fashions and the "need" for a single TM style like if one were to say "rabbits are crepuscular" or: Our very 'language' runs the table-- you can struggle to snuggle but not snuggle to struggle and feel as poetic to oneself as when one is exploring the same spiritual matters in more 'serious' death or taxes ways (but not to others....) ("i'm just clearing away the guck...") like liking to wear tight jeans because they feel good even if it won't make people want to go to bed with you or even if they're very hard to find these days in stores and trying to conserve the ones you bought years ago *hell, even with holes in them, they're still more comfortable than the baggy 'straightleg' ones they sell these days* which means you won't go out feeling so comfortable to work until you can either make enough to afford a privitized tailor or figure out how to make your own clothes which seems like an awful waste of time so maybe conserve even more and stay in where you can be naked though surely even that will be called ironic by the 'otherworldly' writers on this month's masthead no worse than the 'worldly' ones, really..... In other news, Today's one high thought that hasn't "gotten off the ground" as of yet "She thought that by building a monument to representation itself, it would free things and thoughts. From what? (insert Carlin joke here....) Yea Verily, none of those folks you mention JG would be considered poets were not Michael Moore and Alan Watts considered poets sincerely praying for an end to "post op" mouth pain, C J Gallaher wrote: > Well, I have no grading to do, but I'm plenty busy with other little > things so I'm only posting back to say this, quickly: > > The absurd wink . The ironic wink . The self-consciously clever wink . > The Yes, But wink . The As If wink . The Wink at the Fourth Wall . > > What was the intent of the Bruce Willis wink to the absent fourth wall > in "Moonlighting"? Compared, for that matter, to the wink of George > Burns at the absent fourth wall on, what was it called again, "Burns & > Allen"? Or "The Burns & Allen Show"? > > Winking at the artifice? Cannot that very move be the move toward > heart? So, yes, humor, as when Arielle writes: > > referencing, high/low culture intermixing, etc., for the sake of > AVOIDING a question, or trying to ENGAGE with the reader on > that level, on the "aren't we so clever?" level, rather than the same > humor or the same pomo reference coming from a place of utter > sincerity or trying to get to something really honest.> > > And this can be what happens with the WINK. The, I guess, BAD > wink. But what of the good wink? (Not the hood wink.) > > To disavow the suspension of disbelief. To unsay it in the act of > saying it, is still saying, is still having said. Who might be examples of > this? Might this be Tate (on a good day)? Or Ashbery? At least this is > how I read Ashbery. Perhaps how I read Armantrout at times. Or > Michael Palmer. Even Silliman, and others . . . there is a wink in Tate, > I'm sure of it, the lyric would seem to call for it, and maybe it can be a > wink without guile. A wink of inclusion, perhaps. Eh, maybe. Maybe > not, I guess. I'll think about it more. > > Pleasurably, > JG > > PS. I'm not winking, I just have something caught in my eye. > J Gallaher > > Metaphors Be With You . . . ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 20:13:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: P O S T P O N E D !!! SHERMAN ALEXIE and CHUCK WACTEL reading In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The reading by Sherman Alexie and Chuck Wachtel scheduled for tomorrow night--Wednesday, December 11th--at the Poetry Project has been postponed until the spring. Sherman Alexie is, for health reasons, unable to travel to New York City. His situation is NOT life-threatening nor is there any permanent disability involved. He will return to action soon. We're sorry for any inconvenience to you that has resulted from this postponement. We were only notified of Sherman's condition this afternoon. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 20:42:37 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: the wink MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Chris, That was clarifying. Rabbits are a major theme of poetry that winks. Stevens: "when nothing is left but the light on your fur" etc. I'm still not sure what Ron meant by "wink of postmodern irony," but after reading these posts and thinking about the matter, I've decided I *like* postmodern irony. What I mean by irony is the certain sardonic tension between what is said and what is meant. In my family they call it "dryness" -- dad has it, uncle so-and-so is particularly dry; these are Iowa farm boys. They say one thing, mean another, and everybody laughs. Kind of a Bob and Ray version of William Stafford. But it's not just about family: I think irony is pretty much the heart of literature through the ages, and if our particular period is given to irony, then maybe it's given to literature. The created, spoken, printed, emailed, coughed, inhaled, and listened-to *word*. The canwehaveourballback kind of language. Let it flow! If what is meant by "wink of postmodern irony" is somewhat along the lines of Arielle's negative definition of "winking", I agree, it's lazy. But that's not "irony" -- it's bad poetry. Bad writing. Kind of weak, escapist, hyperreferential trash. Kind of the old boy's network "I know something & you don't" country club thing, but in educated, cosmopolitan poetry. However, I'd rather err on the side of irony than on the side of super-serious cause-poetry. I'd rather have a sense of humor. Ha ha ha ! Isn't this funny? Kind of, Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 23:03:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: IRAQ file zz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII IRAQ file zz we have many weapons of mass destruction. they can destroy by air, sea, or land. they can also destroy by water, which is part of sea, and earth, of which there is biology. biology is a good means of mass destruction. we have built mayIRAQ file zz we have many weapons of mass destruction. they can destroy by air, sea, or land. they can also destroy by water, which is part of sea, and earth, of which there is biology. biology is a good means of mass destruction. we have built many facilities of souring nourishment. we have ill disease facilities as well of many cold and flu vaccines. of air we have rockets and other things that push themselves up in the air and cast great shadows of them over the land. we will have floating things that look like great and small bubbles in water and other things like oil, they will float in that, they are not proud (?), which will cover the skin of many people, and they will have to bathe. some of these are still in development stage, such as ill disease floating thing and rocket biology mass. some of them are as tiny arms against great walls which push and push, they will do nothing by one, but all together, they will make walls bend, and perhaps they will fall over. some of these are wonderful projects in mind and we are think of ways to do them or just to talk about, which is very scary, for example to float man and woman on sand or fold their dreams so they meet on other side. we are very glad to make large painting in sand which is very frightful to airplanes, looks like a great giant person ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 20:19:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: my dog ate the first 17 pages in my copy of ~Culture~ {woof} MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Well, then, I guess what you're saying is--- "If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding / How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?" (Pink Floyd's "The Wall") gpsullivan@HOTMAIL.COM wrote: > Like having a discussion about a punchline without taking into account the rest of the joke. < Funny you should say that: I just sent a manuscript off to an open call for submissions, and the opening poem in the book, "Sound Effects," begins: A man goes into a bar. There's a dog standing on its hind legs behind the bar, polishing shotglasses on an apron it wears. Elected officials should stop leaking news items to the press if they're unwilling to face spuming branding irons poised to set fire to their front gates, stamping searing ensignias into bleached acacia wood. . . . The opening lines (tercet) are borrowed from the beginning of numerous commonly told jokes (leading into a sort of illustrated cocktail napkin cartoon, and then veering off elsewhere [into--- the political?!]) without bothering ever to return to or even consider the ~possibility~ of a punch line. So, on some level, yeah, I ~am~ all too willing to discuss punchlines without taking into account the rest of the joke. And vice-versa. (…Although I think your metaphor is sort of flipflopped, proportionately.) I read a book about Aesop's fables which assessed which ones might actually have been the "original" fables and which were the imitative genre that came after it, and the book totally excluded any consideration of the ~morals~ that are tagged on at the end. --- Famously, in Biblical studies, there's the "shorter version" of The Gospel According to St. Mark, too: it leaves out the final chapter about the Resurrection. The problem you're attaching to my reading (which, granted, may indeed be a serious, preposterous problem) is that, by leaving out the first 25 out of 119 pages ("Product" is actually only 17 pages), the 83% of the book that I did read somehow doesn't count or cannot stand on its own footing, without that remaining 1/5th of the book. But then, what you're proposing is an aesthetic of the unitary, of the artwork as an indivisible totality, ---no?--- where ~Culture~ can only be approched in its wholeness and intact completeness (really, that "Product" is the filter that the remaining poetry cannot be approached without, the skeleton key), --- but that only puts Davidson completely out of step with the mentality of the '90s and why he would have used "Breakdown" software in the first place (to deregulate the primacy or necessity of order [whereas order is the very thing you're defending! You're reinstating an unimpeachable global syntax to over-arch the book, whereas he took pains to disempower syntax at every turn]). Is that ~really~ the compositional principle of Davidson's that you want to fault me for having failed to respect: his *linearity*?? Before a deck of cards is dealt, it's shuffled, and then it can be "cut," dividing it in half and moving the second stack in front of the first. That's about how much of "a reason Dan put it at the beginning" survives, after "Breakdown," I'd say. There is an important underlying difference, though, between my hermeneutic and your reply's (despite that yours superficially resembles or copies mine: list-like "evidence", etc). I did organize my "findings" according to their general types and tried to extract a portraiture that accounts for and harmonizes what emerged,--- but the sort of thematic-motivic analysis that I followed proceeded ~inductively,~ by delineating first ~what's there,~ without preconceptions, and letting the diction that Davidson himself chose to operate as motifs be shown as such. These words, "world," "dream," etc., are what ~he~ reasserted, over and over. I only come in as an observer trying to interpret the ~objective~ content that results from his refrains. In some cases ("absorption", "repeat"), I don't even know how to ~name~ what he's doing or saying, it's so abstruse; but I am at least having the honesty to argue that it's a disservice to his artistry to leave all that out of the picture. If the first 1/5th of the book or any part of it is political, that political side has to be ~reconciled~ to these other dimensions, without just brushing them into oblivion or missing them entirely. But your reply moves from the a priori conclusion, that he is in fact political, and then searches out documentation that would substantiate that prejudice. And the kind of politics that you want to pin on him is a prefabricated doctrinaire position that's as cliché as "productivised social relations". If that's true, then it was politically very unimaginative of him. (As if card-carrying Party member artists were to crib their poetry off of the small print and instructions on the back of the card.) "Productivised social relations" sounds like exactly the sort of empty jargon he was attacking (?) and problematizing in his long series of Jenny Holzer Truism-isms, in the .pdf's poem "An Account". ---There: "Anything not used in the creation of profit is automatically suspected of being subversive" [.pdf p. 14]; and the transgression in my omission of "Product" is that I've left something ~"not used"!~ The dilemma here may be: was Davidson as politically simplistic and exaggerated as the occasional political passages in his poetry would make him seem ("Product Control, Inc."???) and therefore writing political poetry (and maybe just bad at it), or, is there a poet there who is good enough, ---a genuine "masterpiece," as Friedlander blurbed,--- that he should be defended from his own ambiguity by insisting that it ~was~ ambiguous and not the agitprop that it resembles? You're taking his "politicalese" (like the "bureaucratese" he mentions) very literally. Meanwhile, take a closer look at the Iraqi buttons. (Afterword by Gary Sullivan: "During the Gulf War Dan made up a batch of pins that read 'Iraqi.' The idea was that you'd wear them in public --- which I don't think he convinced many of his friends to do, although he certainly wore one himself. . . . Benjamin Friedlander recalls telling Dan he'd wear one if it read 'Arab' or 'Arabic'---Ben felt that if Dan's point was to humanize the 'enemy' it would be more accurate to refer to them as people (Arabs) as opposed to a government (Iraq).") They can stand in as a model here. What the Iraqi buttons were doing was taking the immediately and topically political, today's headline, and then ~swapping and mismatching~ its signifiers so that the political is exposed as a way of ~mislabeling~ and misidentifying everything. Davidson was, essentially, treating politics as though it were a giant form of "Breakdown", scrambling the signification and syntax of ~people's place~ within the political order (Americans wearing "Iraqi" buttons were ~not~ Iraqis, so the political signifier is as arbitrary and spurious as any). Your Afterword brings out how he made poetry out of specifically assembled collections of books and "source material", by genre, that included hordes of art and culture theory discourse, mass media, and women's beauty magazines. I don't know why, with his treating discourses as virtually interchangeable anthropological fodder, you then make an exception and see ~Culture~ as having retained ~one~ sole precious discourse that he would not sully with irony or alienation, a political discourse that must be the ~"real"~ herz-sprach of Daniel Davidson. In which case, the second half of the dilemma, what I would prefer: the critique in Davidson would be a critique of ~politics,~ rather than critique ~as~ politics or if its effects. And I'm not convinced that all the quotes that you collect as counter-weight would in fact hold up as substantively "political" under further review. In your first example, I can certainly recognize "packaging" and even "exchange" as being more of his cynicism (critique) about relations, alright. But the abstractness of the surrounding thought ("Reception is a particular . . ., an object. This establishes, if attended, a paradigm . . . , walking across the room to find it") seems entirely the language of the "philosophical" Davidson that I was arguing. (The currency of the term "paradigm" originates in ~science,~ with Kuhn's ~Structure of Scientific Revolutions,~ and in linguistics, with Jakobsen's paradigmatic axis, ---to name only one.) This effect of his writing, ---a tendency, where political vocabulary does occur, for it to occur as flotsam within a field of other-than-political discourse,--- is what I tried to describe as a fragmentary, residual vocabulary being embedded in an unintegrated way. There has been no ~absorption~ of those elements. They're garnished on. If the first 17 pages are very, very politically charged but you're more or less leaving it undisputed that a (terribly) close reading shows the remaining 83 to be only marginally political,--- that's why I was saying that the political in him is ~"split-off"!~ Amassing it mainly in the book's prelude or overture ~compartmentalizes~ any politicism. And so on, throughout your examples (another difference in our two methods is that I tried to offer paraphrased explanations alongside each individual quote. You're treating your quotes ---voila!--- as self-evident. They're not): The politics of "Entering is participation, identity, multiply unique, restricted to what replays, recalls, aligns, within the silence that tells about feeding it" seems hermetic, at best, to me (What do you imagine that all those abstractions ~mean,~ that it could be an illustration of "critique of productivised social relations"? There seems to be a great deal of ~reading into on your part. Is it that you equate abstraction with politics? We seem to be reading English with two incompatible dictionaries. What I considered to be an absolute ~depth sounding~ of the book, you're calling "face value." [At what level, then, ~should~ his "dream" poetry be taken, given the first 17 pages? What does "dream" mean in light of all this political re-tuning? You seem to be saying that getting through "Product" would've allowed me to coast down-hill from there on and only ~half~-read the rest of the book, to unburden everything I found there of its meaning.] To me, that language is psychological ["identity"] or technological ["replays"], etc. Please: What part of the word "silence" am I not understanding?). Etc., etc. I absolutely cannot see what political resonance you find in "See the differences . . . at all locations". . . . Etc.: "Blend in, stand out, in the fragrant melding of trust, warmth and comfort, a fabrication learning to collect"--- politics?? I can see the politics in "armed camp" (who could miss it?) but, in the same sentence that you're arguing against my claims, "ritual" only takes us back to the belief-religiosity question, and "never far from" right back to the "distance" motif. Yes, to an exent, of course, we're playing Ten Blind Indian Swamis Meet Their First Elephant. The blind swami who touches the elephant's trunk says it's a serpent, and the blind swami who touches its leg says it's a tree trunk . . . My omission of "Product" was not "selectively ignoring" (in the sense of purposefully "conveniently" or some sort of unfriendly intentionality). It was done arbitrarily. I ~said~ "I confess to having, currently, skipped over the opening poem, 'Product.'" "Product" is shaped differently on the page; more of it is prose. Sometimes I skip over prose parts in poetry books: I find that I can't switch my meter-meter quickly. (I once burned a CD of all the connective recitative interludes in Handel's opera, ~Radamisto,~ and left out all the arias.) I never saw "Deer Hunter." I'm sorry the dog ate the first 17 pages of my copy! So, I'll read "Product." {"Return and there's another bag. Return and there's another bag. Return and there's another bag" sounds like just the kind of Koyanisqaatsi politics I can't get enough of.} ------------------------------------------------------- The octopus says, 'Play it? Hell if I can work out how to get it's pajamas off, I'm gonna screw it!!' http://www.jokes2go.com/jokes/7626.html ...and she whispers "Hey big boy....want to go shopping?" http://www.jokes2go.com/jokes/19673.html The man throws back his last shot and says, "Fifty cents." http://www.maximonline.com/jokes/joke_47.html __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 00:55:57 -0500 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Chapbook Award MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------------------- The Pavement Saw Press Chapbook Award was established in 1995 to promote writers whose work challenges conventions of contemporary poetry while encouraging multiple readings. Writers world-wide are invited to participate. Each year, one manuscript is selected. Publication, 30 copies, and a prize of five hundred dollars is awarded to the winner. The editions are published in a run of 400 copies, perfect bound with spine. While chapbooks are rarely reviewed, we are the only press that has had our chapbooks reviewed in Poets & Writers (Sept/Oct 2002), Publishers Weekly, The Georgia Review, Small Press Review, Rhizome and others in the last three years. Previous winners have had subsequent full length books published by University of Georgia, Hanging Loose and others forthcoming. Pavement Saw Press Chapbook Contest $500 will be awarded for the finest collection of poetry received. Submit up to 32 pages of poetry. Include a cover letter with your name, address, phone number, e-mail address, poem titles, publication credits and a brief biography. Entry fee $7. Make all checks payable to Pavement Saw Press. Entries will be considered year round for this years contest with a deadline of December 30th. Each US entrant will receive a chapbook provided a 8 1/2 x 11 SASE with $1.42 postage is included, add appropriate postage for other destinations. All manuscripts will be recycled. Send all entries to the address below-- Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 01:00:02 -0500 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: winky MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George-- Contrary to Aaron & John, I was under the impression you disliked Tom Collins. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 23:03:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Drunken Boat Subject: Re: the wink In-Reply-To: <3DF68A26.879B4BEE@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The wink owes the semi-colon for part of its recent prestige, for without it and the waggish world of emoticons, the wink would be clinking styrofoam with the raised eyebrow and the wrinkled forehead, two doors down from frown. Certainly the smile is hated by all, but cannodling with that social climber the nudge, the wink thinks the world's a tub of jello, but still, to this very day, has no clue where the guffaw and licked lips winter. -RS __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 23:33:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: Bruce Andrews' Vietnam Comments: To: bstefans@earthlink.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You state that if the protests against the vietnam war* were ever effective, that was peobably only indirectly so. That's a puzzling sentence. It raises more questions than it answers. How could a protest be effective, while being only indirectly so? That's the one that stumps me. But being only a bear of very little brain, I direct this question to Mr tefans, who I'm sure can make it clearer. David -----Original Message----- From: Brian Stefans To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 12:31 PM Subject: Bruce Andrews' Vietnam >re: > >Has anybody here ever read Bruce Andrews' dissertation book? >If so, would it be a mis-characterization of it to claim that the main >argument, >or thesis, of this book is that the anti-war protests had little, or nothing, >to do >with the eventual cessation of that war by the U.S. Gov't.? > >Chris > >*** > >I'm actually publishing a to-be-titled .pdf of Bruce's collected political >writings on Arras soon, kind of like the one I did for Steve Evans Notes to >Poetry. I have all of the corrected manuscripts from BA, just waiting for a >free week or to to format it, get an intro, etc. It's a lot of material, a >bit dry here and there but he does manage to incorporate his poetry into some >of these essays -- I don't have any paper appears as intertitles in one >conference essay. > >I haven't read his dissertation unless it is the pamphlet called "Public >Constraint and American Policy in Vietnam", but that was published in 1976 >when he was already at Fordham. I've only read parts of this book but it had >little to do with the protests directly and more to do with how the war was >being portrayed in the left and right-wing political organs of the time. The >idea is that war policy may have been more guided by domestic concerns than >global concerns about security, that the state was a "social actor" in >determining what these domestic concerns were, etc., which seems to be one of >the main theses of BA's poli-sci writings in general (another essay is titled >"Social Rules and the State as a Social Actor"). > >I wouldn't be surprised if he did in fact contend that the protests had little >to do with the cessation of war -- I'm not too sure they did either, but I'm >not a scholar on the era. It seems to me that the protests started years >before the war ended, and so even if they were effective they were probably >only indirectly so. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 22:14:09 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: the wink MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit RS Immortal lines!! You have put the ink in the wink or the wink in ink: Twink! in a twink! there's no gainsaying o' the wink: it hath the edge on the nudge and the nub: it is what we were in our Pater's eyes; it is higher than the squint and out does the frown: and the looks ridiculous beneath a Crown: and Jolly One he cometh in Yuletide time: it hangeth well on the hanged and puts the lie to those who lie: the wink is perilously close by a Vowel I speak not what: it knoweth its part: it keepeth behind the Colon: yet to a semi colon it thinks: and it Wrinks: for the semi is only half: and the PM wink is of course the King of all Winks: who twists like a crooked Shrink: it Thinks: but who could shrink from a wink? But the nudge: a stout fellow is Nudge: but the Guffaw I do declare be a Bore: a Rogue a Rogue and a Bore. But the wink....ah, The Wink! R. T. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drunken Boat" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 8:03 PM Subject: Re: the wink > The wink owes the semi-colon for part of its recent > prestige, for without it and the waggish world of > emoticons, the wink would be clinking styrofoam with > the raised eyebrow and the wrinkled forehead, two > doors down from frown. Certainly the smile is hated by > all, but cannodling with that social climber the > nudge, the wink thinks the world's a tub of jello, but > still, to this very day, has no clue where the guffaw > and licked lips winter. > > -RS > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 03:06:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: opusloop #0001 paul whitney Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit THE PAUL WHITNEY COLLECTION opusloop #0001..................excerpt impossible smiths fifteen____lover fuck honey pull knees man body head____purse chair rummaging declares-major-disaster-exists____millennium lockhart depends election____tooo bad voluntary defense act____red spanking immediate release impossible smiths fifteen____damn damn cursed sweet tonight yes master lover fuck honey pull knees man body head legs feeling blouse fall cock____pleasant backwards position bathers purse chair rummaging declares-major-disaster-exists stern wetness feel real eddie millennium lockhart depends election soundboards aunt mother danny free charge mom ended tooo bad voluntary defense act weed pentagon working hard red spanking immediate release date handjob syrian-israeli talks possible impossible smiths fifteen____concerns hermann front damn damn cursed sweet tonight yes master self-else different path earth lover fuck honey pull knees man body head legs feeling blouse fall cock____movement preserve king-legacy pleasant backwards position bathers strong purse chair rummaging declares-major-disaster-exists stern legs feeling blouse fall cock____circular tongue motion hope dawning progress wetness feel real eddie promptly millennium lockhart depends election soundboards stern commerce defense report following aunt mother danny free charge mom ended others win several thousands francs tooo bad voluntary defense act weed soundboards congressional both parties pentagon working hard garden gates superfluous coastguards gathered red spanking immediate release date handjob syrian-israeli talks possible weed impossible smiths fifteen____defense spending decade pleasure lay concerns hermann front restore lover silk recollected damn damn cursed sweet tonight yes master self-else different path earth date handjob syrian-israeli talks possible lover fuck honey pull knees man body head____talks easy time ago want movement preserve king-legacy lockhart story saturday pleasant backwards position bathers strong self-else different path earth purse chair rummaging declares-major-disaster-exists____talks easy time ago want circular tongue motion hope dawning progress tom thumb wetness feel real eddie promptly strong millennium lockhart depends election____john remark simultaneously commerce defense report following trade caribbean pressing ahead debt relief poverty aunt mother danny free charge mom ended others win several thousands francs promptly tooo bad voluntary defense act____russia noted core issues work congressional both parties thracia pentagon working hard garden gates superfluous coastguards gathered others win several thousands francs red spanking immediate release____parsifal staring trunk immediate defense spending decade pleasure lay shut concerns hermann front restore lover silk recollected garden gates superfluous coastguards gathered damn damn cursed sweet tonight yes master____last years president helped teachers talks easy time ago want pleasant movement preserve king-legacy lockhart story saturday restore lover silk recollected pleasant backwards position bathers____myself neighbor street ancient gnome talks easy time ago want Captain Bennydeck cruising sea yacht circular tongue motion hope dawning progress tom thumb lockhart story saturday wetness feel real eddie____united closer breathtaking siya siyana? john remark simultaneously pleasant backwards position bathers commerce defense report following trade caribbean pressing ahead debt relief poverty tom thumb aunt mother danny free charge mom ended____elastic gripped thighs intend russia noted core issues work rasp congressional both parties thracia trade caribbean pressing ahead debt relief poverty pentagon working hard____warnings based information abroad parsifal staring trunk immediate sanity liked remain office assist defense spending decade pleasure lay shut thracia concerns hermann front ____extended wondering boys gym last years president helped teachers primitive talks easy time ago want pleasant shut movement preserve king-legacy____fronds peered statement president corporation myself neighbor street ancient gnome upkeep talks easy time ago want Captain Bennydeck cruising sea yacht pleasant circular tongue motion hope dawning progress____force cut off tit united closer breathtaking siya siyana? open-leave woke goodbye entrance friend moist president traveling shepherdstown tuesday john remark simultaneously pleasant backwards position bathers Captain Bennydeck cruising sea yacht commerce defense report following____direction judgement quietly opened door elastic gripped thighs intend school man presence death russia noted core issues work rasp pleasant backwards position bathers congressional both parties____regard try process rather gospel comes warnings based information abroad perfect parsifal staring trunk immediate sanity liked remain office assist rasp defense spending decade pleasure lay____doesn't quickly reason believe extended wondering boys gym threaten last years president helped teachers primitive sanity liked remain office assist talks easy time ago want____i suppose hey started bohème fronds peered statement president corporation saliva myself neighbor street ancient gnome upkeep primitive talks easy time ago want____travel talks press-briefing science force cut off tit offended united closer breathtaking siya siyana? open-leave woke goodbye entrance friend moist president traveling shepherdstown tuesday upkeep john remark simultaneously____i picked driving nice sleeping blanket direction judgement quietly opened door willing try place breezy Channel air elastic gripped thighs intend school man presence death open-leave woke goodbye entrance friend moist president traveling shepherdstown tuesday russia noted core issues work____bare arms felt good curled onto lap health regard try process rather gospel comes sea warnings based information abroad perfect school man presence death parsifal staring trunk immediate____criticisms aware currently doesn't quickly reason believe last fall congress year million extended wondering boys gym threaten perfect last years president helped teachers____criticisms aware currently i suppose hey started bohème Englishman Frenchman? fronds peered statement president corporation saliva threaten myself neighbor street ancient gnome____afternoon noticed grandma town beneath hill travel talks press-briefing science Arbitrary Interference Privacy Family Home Correspondence force cut off tit offended saliva united closer breathtaking siya siyana?____pulled smiled i picked driving nice sleeping blanket wave direction judgement quietly opened door willing try place breezy Channel air offended elastic gripped thighs intend____national-monument hospitality experienced bare arms felt good curled onto lap health surging forward huge mass everyone crushed tightly regard try process rather gospel comes sea willing try place breezy Channel air warnings based information abroad____independent monetary oh god eddie criticisms aware currently paradise doesn't quickly reason believe last fall congress year million sea extended wondering boys gym____lately stacy easier vantage point clothespins criticisms aware currently voice betray i suppose hey started bohème Englishman Frenchman? last fall congress year million fronds peered statement president corporation____interested financially iron smiling slide afternoon noticed grandma town beneath hill ridicule travel talks press-briefing science Arbitrary Interference Privacy Family Home Correspondence Englishman Frenchman? force cut off tit____repeatedly pointed social security pulled smiled america debt-free challenge spreading i picked driving nice sleeping blanket wave Arbitrary Interference Privacy Family Home Correspondence direction judgement quietly opened door____concentrate real utility national-monument hospitality experienced nicer bare arms felt good curled onto lap health surging forward huge mass everyone crushed tightly wave regard try process rather gospel comes____quarter found place hide rail independent monetary oh god eddie distances faint chanting gathered lockhart criticisms aware currently paradise surging forward huge mass everyone crushed tightly doesn't quickly reason believe____capuchin san floor wearing bra lately stacy easier vantage point clothespins Bonnet criticisms aware currently voice betray paradise i suppose hey started bohème____often fluid provocative face party interested financially iron smiling slide tagus afternoon --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 03:09:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: opusloop #0002 paul whitney Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE PAUL WHITNEY COLLECTION opusloop #0002..................excerpt last long half hour____moans best felt bed shake Chris Suddenly half-hard____provisions laws fact enjoy rights provided Constitution____interest free federal loans school districts fund urgent____Indians monstrous moving bank ahead____finally face carefree motion tossed last long half hour____laps ocean president moans best felt bed shake Chris Suddenly half-hard loosened play too much good shape twice weekly dance____Chapter LIII provisions laws fact enjoy rights provided Constitution stern Bells garden interest free federal loans school districts fund urgent soundboards everthing absolutely expect decision Indians monstrous moving bank ahead weed impossible Linley remain husband house finally face carefree motion tossed ceremony room empty last long half hour____nothing seriousness joe laps ocean president self-Throughout year Children Fund UNICEF continued warn moans best felt bed shake Chris Suddenly half-hard loosened play too much good shape twice weekly dance____national security bolster america abroad central Chapter LIII Exit train provisions laws fact enjoy rights provided Constitution stern loosened play too much good shape twice weekly dance____sound climaxed lockhart Bells garden promptly interest free federal loans school districts fund urgent soundboards stern entering studio friend experienced disagreeable everthing absolutely expect decision determined another traded obscenities man Indians monstrous moving bank ahead weed soundboards Moving slowly forward stopping moving onward hesitating impossible Linley remain husband house small hard pink english topics head finally face carefree motion tossed ceremony room empty weed last long half hour____morning emotions evening nothing seriousness joe Uh sure talk sex laps ocean president self-Throughout year Children Fund UNICEF continued warn ceremony room empty moans best felt bed shake Chris Suddenly half-hard____described Norman dreadful word Classical national security bolster america abroad central value words need weak Chapter LIII Exit train self-Throughout year Children Fund UNICEF continued warn provisions laws fact enjoy rights provided Constitution____described Norman dreadful word Classical sound climaxed lockhart tom thumb Bells garden promptly Exit train interest free federal loans school districts fund urgent____first teases crystal drew entering studio friend experienced disagreeable council becc pulsed outward drew darted forth everthing absolutely expect decision determined another traded obscenities man promptly Indians monstrous moving bank ahead____job Government enforcement safety standards direction Labor Moving slowly forward stopping moving onward hesitating thracia impossible Linley remain husband house small hard pink english topics head determined another traded obscenities man finally face carefree motion tossed____breasts sign encouragement pushed pussy lips pussy opened morning emotions evening shut nothing seriousness joe Uh sure talk sex small hard pink english topics head laps ocean president ____lockhart place half described Norman dreadful word Classical pleasant national security bolster america abroad central value words need weak Uh sure talk sex Chapter LIII____windows grew light dawn threw vulnerable prostrated described Norman dreadful word Classical government-planned resettlements local sound climaxed lockhart tom thumb value words need weak Bells garden____repairs continued years leverage billion enough first teases crystal drew Chapter LIII entering studio friend experienced disagreeable council becc pulsed outward drew darted forth tom thumb everthing absolutely expect decision____mother brothers whom job Government enforcement safety standards direction Labor rasp Moving slowly forward stopping moving onward hesitating thracia council becc pulsed outward drew darted forth impossible Linley remain husband house____midst saturated lukewarm dull life breasts sign encouragement pushed pussy lips pussy opened Captain modesty doubted morning emotions evening shut thracia nothing seriousness joe____right continued employment refuse work dangerous conditions lockhart place half primitive described Norman dreadful word Classical pleasant shut national security bolster america abroad central____lack adequate ensured access change doctors windows grew light dawn threw vulnerable prostrated upkeep described Norman dreadful word Classical government-planned resettlements local pleasant sound climaxed lockhart____cases police military interference labor matters during repairs continued years leverage billion enough open-too forest trees Indian mutilated excited customers couple noticed dress first teases crystal drew Chapter LIII government-planned resettlements local entering studio friend experienced disagreeable floating rubin larry summers first mother brothers whom school lid called Please lady Cannery job Government enforcement safety standards direction Labor rasp Chapter LIII Moving slowly forward stopping moving onward hesitating work plowshares fleet succor midst saturated lukewarm dull life perfect breasts sign encouragement pushed pussy lips pussy opened Captain modesty doubted rasp morning emotions evening____senate bored bored town right continued employment refuse work dangerous conditions threaten lockhart place half primitive Captain modesty doubted described Norman dreadful word Classical____silence filled more serious reached point lack adequate ensured access change doctors saliva windows grew light dawn threw vulnerable prostrated upkeep primitive described Norman dreadful word Classical____balcony balcony opposite cases police military interference labor matters during offended repairs continued years leverage billion enough open-too forest trees Indian mutilated excited customers couple noticed dress upkeep first teases crystal drew____continues stipulate transmission citizenship occur floating rubin larry summers first desire? mother brothers whom school lid called Please lady Cannery open-too forest trees Indian mutilated excited customers couple noticed dress job Government enforcement safety standards direction Labor____push bipartisan medicare reform demographic work plowshares fleet succor sea midst saturated lukewarm dull life perfect school lid called Please lady Cannery breasts sign encouragement pushed pussy lips pussy opened____children purpose prostitution sometimes forced labor senate bored bored town unworthy price money pleasures right continued employment refuse work dangerous conditions threaten perfect lockhart place half____children purpose prostitution sometimes forced labor silence filled more serious reached point mom heavily clips whole lack adequate ensured access change doctors saliva threaten windows grew light dawn threw vulnerable prostrated rest week mechanics point view balcony balcony opposite democratic transfer arms control through discussions cases police military interference labor matters during offended saliva repairs continued years leverage billion enough____returned paper continues stipulate transmission citizenship occur wave floating rubin larry summers first desire? offended mother brothers whom____lady effort dislocation cause push bipartisan medicare reform demographic contrary alternatives ingratitude equally work plowshares fleet succor sea desire? midst saturated lukewarm dull life____faces grinding filling playing children purpose prostitution sometimes forced labor paradise senate bored bored town unworthy price money pleasures sea right continued employment refuse work dangerous conditions____goal Siddhartha single goal empty empty children purpose prostitution sometimes forced labor eventually concluded lit word whiskey hit once realized silence filled more serious reached point mom heavily clips whole unworthy price money pleasures lack adequate ensured access change doctors____Denials suffice Caffie quarter past rest week mechanics point view ridicule balcony balcony opposite democratic transfer arms control through discussions mom heavily clips whole cases police military interference labor matters during____England residence Germany returned paper simply end interest society continues stipulate transmission citizenship occur wave democratic transfer arms control through discussions floating rubin larry summers first readout pool tomorrow mcmahon lady effort dislocation cause nicer push bipartisan medicare reform demographic contrary --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 08:27:24 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: surrealist petition for baraka... Comments: To: swaksman@email.smith.edu, brenn032@umn.edu, funkhouser@tesla.njit.edu, Ehhoagland@aol.com, jlandry@UMassD.Edu In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Prefatory Note: The following statement has so far been co-signed by Ernest Allen, Derrick Bell, John Bracey, Dennis Brutus, Paul Buhle, Jayne Cortez, Susan G. Davis, Diane di Prima, Patricia Eakins, Paul Garon, Noel Ignatiev, Marie Kazalia, Robin D. G. Kelley, Don LaCoss, Harry Magdoff, Clive Matson, David Meltzer, Peter Rachleff, David Roediger, Franklin Rosemont, Penelope Rosemont, Mark Rosenzweig, Sonia Sanchez, Ron Sakolsky, Nelson Stevens, Askia Toure, among others. If YOU would like to add your signature, or know of others who would like to co-sign, please e-mail info@surrealism-usa.org POETRY MATTERS! On the Media Persecution of Amiri Baraka Poetry Festivals don?t usually trigger hate campaigns or Red Scares, but this year?s Geraldine Dodge Poetry Festival at Waterloo Village in Stanhope, New Jersey, proved to be different. There, on September 19th, Amiri Baraka read his poem "Somebody Blew Up America." The applause was thunderous, but some people apparently didn?t like it, for almost immediately the poet was singled out for an incredible barrage of vilification by Murdoch?s Fox News, the New York Times, the National Review, and scores?by now probably many hundreds?of bigoted, neoconservative, white-supremacist talk-shows and periodicals. Leading the assault on the poet is the so-called Anti-Defamation League (ADL), a powerful right-wing political organization notorious for its virulent opposition to Affirmative Action and for its routine use of character assassination against its critics. It so happens that Baraka wrote "Somebody Blew Up America" in September/October 2001, in the weeks following the tragedy known to all as "9-11." The 226-line poem was promptly posted on the Internet, copied onto many websites, and further publicized by the poet at numerous well-attended readings all over the U.S. and in many other countries. It quickly became one of the most widely circulated of his works. No attempt was made to conceal the fact that the poem was, in Baraka?s own words, "an attack on Imperialism, National Oppression, Monopoly Capitalism, Racism, Anti-Semitism," and that it was meant to "probe and disturb." Not until the Dodge Poetry Festival, however, did anyone object to it. What provoked the sudden media war on Amiri Baraka in September 2002? Assuredly it was not merely a difference of opinion regarding the art of poetry. In truth, despite the hue and cry, the poem itself is not the central issue here. In any event, the principal charge alleged against the poem (that it is "anti-Semitic") cannot withstand a moment?s critical examination. Indeed, with its salute to the memory of such revered Jewish revolutionists as Rosa Luxemburg, and the questions it raises about U.S. capitalism?s little-known complicity in the Holocaust, Baraka?s poem is explicitly against anti-Semitism and all racism. If the ADL?s hollow charge, repeated ad nauseam by the media, had even the slightest substance, how are we to account for the fact that it was completely unnoticed by the hundreds of thousands who had read or heard the poem during the preceding year? (The ADL, of course, construes any and all criticism of the Israeli government?even the merest mention of its long support of South African Apartheid, for example?as "anti-Semitic.") No less spurious is the ADL?s puerile argument that Baraka?s poem is helping to foment "anti-American xenophobia," but this charge?bristling with sinister insinuations?does bring us closer to the real issues at stake in the media "police action" against the poet. For what the ADL, neoconservatives and repentant ex-New-Leftists really hate about Baraka is that he is a sharp critic of this country?s anti-democratic institutions, and an activist who has time and again protested the U.S. government?s repressive role in foreign and domestic affairs. Worse yet, from the point of view of the white ruling class and the politicians who do its bidding, Baraka is also an outspoken revolutionary. Clearly, then, the real target of the ADL?s ongoing defamation of the author of "Somebody Blew Up America" is not that particular poem, or any other poem, but the poet himself, his revolutionary courage and audacity, and above all his ability to articulate the anxieties and yearnings of those "furthest down" in humankind?s long hard struggle against inequality and tyranny. The question, "Why did the assault on the poet start as late as September 2002?" is easily answered: Because in August, a few weeks before the Dodge Poetry Festival, Amiri Baraka became the poet laureate of the State of New Jersey. An honorary title with a small stipend, this was far from a position of power, but for the state?s corrupt "business-as-usual" Establishment, it was evidently way too much. And so Baraka?s poem?or rather, the distorted, out-of-context fragments quoted by his critics in the press and on TV?was made a pretext for racial and political persecution by that arch-enemy of all poetry, solidarity, and freedom: the white power structure. The ADL and other bigots are demanding that Baraka be removed as poet laureate. Cravenly submitting to white-supremacist pressure-groups, New Jersey Governor James E. McGreevey has formally asked the poet not only to resign as laureate, but also to apologize for his poem! Baraka has refused. In the current U.S. political climate: a climate of domination, fear, and insipid conformism; increasing government surveillance and curtailing of civil rights and liberties; persecution of immi-grants, radicals, and organized labor; massive militarization and flag-waving war hysteria, all promoted by an unelected President and a billionaire-owned media?the assault on Amiri Baraka is a matter of the greatest concern to all who care about human free-dom, the right to dream, and the right to speak out. This attack on a poet is an attack on all poets, all poetry, and all free speech. The persecution of Baraka is about stifling poetry, suppressing criticism, silencing voices of dissent. It is about censor-ship and coercion; the imposition of conformity and misery; the denial of freedom. We say: Hands Off Amiri Baraka! Long live the unfettered imagination! An injury to One is an injury to All! -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 10:25:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Last call Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi Jeffrey, I'm finding it difficult to respond. I think your reading of culture is both interesting and different from my own, not entirely different. It's really one element that I'm seeing in there, the political, which you're not granting it, or are finding wanting or less integrated. I never said you *had* to see it; my point was simply that I do see it, and tried to point to one area where it seemed most obvious, as it was an area you admittedly had passed over. But, the kinds of language you use, the kinds of characterizations you're making, I don't know what to do with. I'm not some schoolmaster trying to get you to eat your meat before pudding--where does that come from? Or this: "I am at least having the honesty to argue that it's a disservice to his artistry to leave all that out of the picture." In other words, I'm being dishonest by bringing in yet one more element into the picture? From the beginning your critique seemed to me to stem from the accusation of some fundamental dishonesty on the part of anyone who might see Dan's book in different light than your own. The SPD catalog and Ben and I were all lying to you. Or that I only see a political aspect of Dan's work because I'm as you put it "prejudiced." I never said that the political element in Dan's work was "unsullied" (I'd use a different word; I'd say "complicated") with/by the philosophical, irony, lyricism/romanticism, alienation. That's all there, even in Product; I've never said it wasn't. It is, in fact, that alienation, most strongly resonant (for me) in "Anomie," that I am most critical of in my own reading of the work, what I find in it to be ultimately of less, or even corrosive, value. It's that aspect that I see inextricably linked to his suicide. Obviously we disagree as to whether or not the political was fully integrated throughout the work. I feel it is, after having read the book a number of times over the last several years. You don't see it that way after having read 85% of the inprint book and maybe 30% of the .pdf online. You obviously have a right to talk about the book after having read what you've read of it. But, why don't I have the right to counter that reading, to complicate it, with my own, without being accused of being "prejudiced" or "dishonest"? I'm admittedly baffled. I find it hard to continue a discussion with someone who at the very least does not respect that when someone else disagrees with them, it's not simply because they are attempting to pull the wool over others' eyes. I feel that, in your reading of his work, which is an admirably close reading (though it doesn't take the whole book into account), that you take statements made in the work on more of a face-value level than I do. I see it more as him writing at some remove, weaving various discourses throughout the book. His relationship with them is complex, not always direct, but neither completely removed from--just at "some remove" from. Similar to J.H. Prynne, who was a hero of Dan's. Yes, I do see the whole, rather than separate parts--why is that a problem? Or why is it wrong to grant some linearity to the project--after all, he did write "Product" first, and everything else came afterward. Which is why he placed it first. It really wasn't arbitrary, though if you really think I'm just some prejudiced liar, I don't suppose you're going to take my saying that with any seriousness. Oh well, Gary _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 10:47:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Dangerous Information MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dangerous Information MISSION: (6A) - MISSION: STS-100 - 9th STS-100 ISS - Flight 9th (6A) ISS -Raffaello Flight MPLM, VEHICLE: SSRMS -Raffaello VEHICLE: STS-100 Endeavour/OV-105 Endeavour/OV-105 LOCATION: 39A Launch LOCATION: Pad Launch 39A Pad TARGET 2:41 DATE/TIME: TARGET KSC DATE/TIME: Apr. KSC LAUNCH Apr. 19, LAUNCH 2001 DATE/TIME: at Apr. 2:41 19, p.m. 2001 EDT at LANDING LAUNCH 30, Apr. 9:35 at a.m. TARGET MISSION KSC DURATION: MISSION 10 DURATION: days, 10 18 days, hours 18 and hours 54 and minutes 54 CREW: MISSION Rominger, CREW: Ashby, CREW: Hadfield, Rominger, Parazynski, Ashby, Phillips, Hadfield, Guidoni, Lonchakov Lonchakov Phillips, ORBITAL INCLINATION: INSERTION ORBITAL ALTITUDE INSERTION INCLINATION: ALTITUDE 173 INCLINATION: nautical 173 miles/51.6 nautical degrees miles/51.6 STS-104 Atlantis/OV-104 10th - (7A) ISS Airlock - Atlantis/OV-104 MISSION: OPF 3 bay OPF 3 bay NET days June NET 14, June 4:15 14, 25, p.m. 12:30 June 11 25, days 11 Lindsey, Reilly Hobaugh, Lindsey, Kavandi, CREW: Gernhardt, Lindsey, Reilly Hobaugh, 122 Kavandi, STS-105 122 11th STS-105 (7A.1) Flight Leonardo (7A.1) MPLM MISSION: Discovery/OV-103 STS-105 2 2 OFFICIAL 12:29 July DATE/TIME: 12, at 4:45 12, EST OFFICIAL 22, LAUNCH 12:29 22, Horowitz, OFFICIAL Struckow, CREW: Barry, Horowitz, Forrester; (down) (up) Barry, Culbertson, Forrester; Dezhurov, (up) Turin Dezhurov, (down) Turin Voss, Dezhurov, Helms, Turin Usachev (down) STS-109 Voss, HST MISSION: Servicing Columbia/OV-102 Mission HST 3B Servicing Columbia/OV-102 Mission 1 1 Nov. TBD 19 Nov. under 19 review under 30 review TBD 30 Altman, Currie, Carey, Altman, Grunsfeld, Carey, Currie, Grunsfeld, Newman, miles/28.5 Linnehan, Newman, Massimino Linnehan, 308 Massimino miles/28.5 308 === === === ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 08:23:33 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: The Milk of Venus: 14 Comments: cc: wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ............failure she while smoky at slips............a through most it, sliver leaving things only of ghost, and traces ............door across feeling cracks my it face open reddened............where the drops ice sitting melting............tapered cracking do water into out in of ............foul roof the like bowls coins............ December's on sentences............the hands head begin............an morning spaces half-lit............ unrequited birds in crying hunger hinge jaw rust............ for somewhere open out dialogue ............there up............the history missing stands .........snow around your wall-eyed recedes casting .........talking me hands in like ice and so a I your can't .........thinning run rumbling from hairline .........it sleep.........Baby's a my gray portrait slate......... shame of scanned day of slamming into across paid .........my the gaping flesh swollen scope gaze hidden of deep......... all in of my snow the ghosts variables are registry........deep code pocket dream.........zen shadows .........a that is fall syntax to my limbo error where only my in stepfather standing......... and drug my smoking, grandfather now rot the, stains furiously, and loudly left you.........his leaving she your big holes forgets open red and you leaking face negatives in below angry creation...... a drive balloon crash ......city simply leaving virus, you protection you while do asleep not yet know......eating bastard under eyes the slipping smother tsunami lines into fluorescence, mother's of disappearing swimming crevice pallid to my bind melody ......aeons with out a of black sequence tongue......I an more lick...... gray ink sky the for flower Baby smooth to trailing swim surface through numbers without where seeing through ...... the I've end...... the disconnected ice.....I dreaming hands woke my blocked up mother in today and ice tethered stepfather tapping to leaving true ......the me doses fright in that of a sting ......my space my past unknowable face...... ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 11:28:22 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Fwd: Call for Style Issue on Metonymy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >X-From_: rossj001@umn.edu Wed Dec 11 09:28:35 2002 >X-Sender: rossj001@rossj001.email.umn.edu >Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 21:13:49 -0600 >To: englfac@umn.edu, > engrad-l@umn.edu >From: Donald Ross >Subject: Fwd: Call for Style Issue on Metonymy >X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] x128-101-248-72.dialup.umn.edu #+LO+TR > >> >>Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 17:47:04 -0600 >>From: Don Hardy >>Subject: Call for Style Issue on Metonymy >>To: Donald Ross Jr >> >>Call for papers for special issue of Style on metonymy (Volume 38, >>number 2, 2004) >> >>Guest editor Gerard Steen of a special issue of Style on metonymy >>invites contributions from practitioners of stylistics, >>linguistics, discourse analysis, poetics, psychology, and rhetoric >>on the role of metonymy in style, language, text, discourse, and >>thought, literary or non-literary. >> >>In the wake of the recent cognitive turn in metaphor studies, it >>has now become metonymy that has been receiving an increased amount >>of attention from cognitive linguists, psychologists, and cognitive >>scientists in general. Claims are being made that metonymy is even >>more basic to thought and language than metaphor, in the sense that >>there are metonymic motivations for many conceptual metaphors. >>Apart from these fundamental issues, there are many cases where >>metaphor and metonymy interact with each other in interesting and >>intricate ways, both in thought and in linguistic expression. And >>an exciting related development is the emergence of a general >>theory of conceptual integration, also known as 'blending theory', >>which promises to offer a consistent and uniform approach to >>metonymy, metaphor, and other types of thought and language. >> >>There is hence sufficient reason to publish a sequel special issue >>of Style on metonymy, after the special issue on metaphor published >>as volume 36, number 3 (2002). >> >>One aim of the special issue is to make the new research on >>metonymy available to the readership of Style, in order to redress >>the balance between metaphor and metonymy. Another aim is to give a >>decided stylistic and poetic turn to the wheel of the cogntive >>research into metonymy and metaphor alike. It seems as if many of >>the claims made in cognitive linguistics were also made in the >>sixties and seventies by structuralist and semiotic scholars, >>including Umberto Eco and Jonathan Culler. Contributors are invited >>in particular to consider the interest of these structuralist and >>semiotic insights for cognitive linguistics, stylistics, and >>poetics, or, the other way around, how contemporary cognitive >>approaches to metonymy can add cognitive quality to mainstream >>methods of literary text analysis. The special issue is hence hoped >>to provide a platform for some innovating interdisciplinary >>discussion. >> >>All submissions should be 5,000 to 9,000 words. The deadline for >>submissions is 1 August 2003. Please submit three copies (MLA >>style) accompanied by a 150-word abstract. >> >>Submissions and correspondence should be addressed to Gerard J. >>Steen, at gj.steen@let.vu.nl , or at Department of English Language >>and Culture, Vrije Universiteit, DeBoelelaan 1005, 1081 HV >>Amsterdam, The Netherlands. Style is a refereed journal publishing >>studies in stylistics, literary theory, and literary criticism. >> >>If you do not wish to receive further calls for papers from Style, >>please reply to dhardy@niu.edu with the subject and message of "no >>CFPs." Please also include the entire message and headings of the >>original call. > > >-- >Donald Ross >Professor of English, Director of Composition & Undergraduate Studies >Director of Graduate Studies - Minor in Rhetoric and Literacy Studies >English Department, 207 Church St. S.E. >University of Minnesota, Minneapolis MN 55455 USA >Voice Mail (612) 625-5585 >http://english.cla.umn.edu/Faculty/Ross/ross.htm -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 12:40:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Re: surrealist petition for baraka... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I was about to sign, but then it occurred to me that I might be a member of the "white power structure" and therefore "the arch-enemy of all poetry, solidary and freedom." And by the way, is Colin Powell a member of the white power structure? Or Condoleezza Rice--billed in the current Newsweek as "the most influential woman in wartime Washington"? Oh but I guess they're not *really* black, are they? Steve On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Maria Damon wrote: > Prefatory Note: The following statement has so far been co-signed by Ernest > Allen, Derrick Bell, John Bracey, Dennis Brutus, Paul Buhle, Jayne Cortez, > Susan G. Davis, Diane di Prima, Patricia Eakins, Paul Garon, Noel Ignatiev, > Marie Kazalia, Robin D. G. Kelley, Don LaCoss, Harry Magdoff, Clive Matson, > David Meltzer, Peter Rachleff, David Roediger, Franklin Rosemont, Penelope > Rosemont, Mark Rosenzweig, Sonia Sanchez, Ron Sakolsky, Nelson Stevens, > Askia Toure, among others. > > If YOU would like to add your signature, or know of others who would > like to co-sign, please e-mail info@surrealism-usa.org > > > POETRY MATTERS! > On the Media Persecution of Amiri Baraka > > Poetry Festivals don?t usually trigger hate campaigns or Red Scares, but > this year?s Geraldine Dodge Poetry Festival at Waterloo Village in > Stanhope, New Jersey, proved to be different. There, on September 19th, > Amiri Baraka read his poem "Somebody Blew Up America." The applause was > thunderous, but some people apparently didn?t like it, for almost > immediately the poet was singled out for an incredible barrage of > vilification by Murdoch?s Fox News, the New York Times, the National > Review, and scores?by now probably many hundreds?of bigoted, > neoconservative, white-supremacist talk-shows and periodicals. Leading the > assault on the poet is the so-called Anti-Defamation League (ADL), a > powerful right-wing political organization notorious for its virulent > opposition to Affirmative Action and for its routine use of character > assassination against its critics. > > It so happens that Baraka wrote "Somebody Blew Up America" in > September/October 2001, in the weeks following the tragedy known to all as > "9-11." The 226-line poem was promptly posted on the Internet, copied onto > many websites, and further publicized by the poet at numerous well-attended > readings all over the U.S. and in many other countries. It quickly became > one of the most widely circulated of his works. No attempt was made to > conceal the fact that the poem was, in Baraka?s own words, "an attack on > Imperialism, National Oppression, Monopoly Capitalism, Racism, > Anti-Semitism," and that it was meant to "probe and disturb." Not until the > Dodge Poetry Festival, however, did anyone object to it. > > What provoked the sudden media war on Amiri Baraka in September 2002? > Assuredly it was not merely a difference of opinion regarding the art of > poetry. In truth, despite the hue and cry, the poem itself is not the > central issue here. In any event, the principal charge alleged against the > poem (that it is "anti-Semitic") cannot withstand a moment?s critical > examination. Indeed, with its salute to the memory of such revered Jewish > revolutionists as Rosa Luxemburg, and the questions it raises about U.S. > capitalism?s little-known complicity in the Holocaust, Baraka?s poem is > explicitly against anti-Semitism and all racism. If the ADL?s hollow > charge, repeated ad nauseam by the media, had even the slightest substance, > how are we to account for the fact that it was completely unnoticed by the > hundreds of thousands who had read or heard the poem during the preceding > year? (The ADL, of course, construes any and all criticism of the Israeli > government?even the merest mention of its long support of South African > Apartheid, for example?as "anti-Semitic.") > > No less spurious is the ADL?s puerile argument that Baraka?s poem is > helping to foment "anti-American xenophobia," but this charge?bristling > with sinister insinuations?does bring us closer to the real issues at stake > in the media "police action" against the > > > > poet. For what the ADL, neoconservatives and repentant ex-New-Leftists > really hate about Baraka is that he is a sharp critic of this country?s > anti-democratic institutions, and an activist who has time and again > protested the U.S. government?s repressive role in foreign and domestic > affairs. Worse yet, from the point of view of the white ruling class and > the politicians who do its bidding, Baraka is also an outspoken > revolutionary. > > Clearly, then, the real target of the ADL?s ongoing defamation of the > author of "Somebody Blew Up America" is not that particular poem, or any > other poem, but the poet himself, his revolutionary courage and audacity, > and above all his ability to articulate the anxieties and yearnings of > those "furthest down" in humankind?s long hard struggle against inequality > and tyranny. > > The question, "Why did the assault on the poet start as late as September > 2002?" is easily answered: Because in August, a few weeks before the Dodge > Poetry Festival, Amiri Baraka became the poet laureate of the State of New > Jersey. An honorary title with a small stipend, this was far from a > position of power, but for the state?s corrupt "business-as-usual" > Establishment, it was evidently way too much. > > And so Baraka?s poem?or rather, the distorted, out-of-context fragments > quoted by his critics in the press and on TV?was made a pretext for racial > and political persecution by that arch-enemy of all poetry, solidarity, and > freedom: the white power structure. > > The ADL and other bigots are demanding that Baraka be removed as poet > laureate. Cravenly submitting to white-supremacist pressure-groups, New > Jersey Governor James E. McGreevey has formally asked the poet not only to > resign as laureate, but also to apologize for his poem! Baraka has refused. > > In the current U.S. political climate: a climate of domination, fear, and > insipid conformism; increasing government surveillance and curtailing of > civil rights and liberties; persecution of immi-grants, radicals, and > organized labor; massive militarization and flag-waving war hysteria, all > promoted by an unelected President and a billionaire-owned media?the > assault on Amiri Baraka is a matter of the greatest concern to all who care > about human free-dom, the right to dream, and the right to speak out. > > This attack on a poet is an attack on all poets, all poetry, and all free > speech. The persecution of Baraka is about stifling poetry, suppressing > criticism, silencing voices of dissent. It is about censor-ship and > coercion; the imposition of conformity and misery; the denial of freedom. > > We say: > > Hands Off Amiri Baraka! > > Long live the unfettered imagination! > > An injury to One is an injury to All! > > -- > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 13:27:19 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Surreal Petit... Why don't Trent Lott & Baraka just switch jobs..they're entitled to about equal U.S. govt pensions...je t'aime le racisme..chez moi...harry... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 13:35:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: surrealist petition for baraka... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit whether you feel aligned or not (or whether you're serious or not) about being part of something coined "white power structure" might be a separate issue from being FEARLESS about language, and the desire to protect language, no matter who says it, and no matter what it is they say. as poets we need to have the courage to have our words and have space for other's words help make this world become itself in words. Baraka--whether or not you agree with what he says or feels--is rocking this great experiment we're all a part of. merely by speaking his mind, disregarding polite banter, he will help set us all free. the power of the language lies in our fearlessness when confronted by it or when confronting others with it. the engine of that is our own problem, and i hope we can all get it revved! Conrad In a message dated 12/11/2002 12:40:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, shoemak@FAS.HARVARD.EDU writes: > > > I was about to sign, but then it occurred to me that I might be a member > of the "white power structure" and therefore "the arch-enemy of all > poetry, solidary and freedom." And by the way, is Colin Powell a member > of the white power structure? Or Condoleezza Rice--billed in the current > Newsweek as "the most influential woman in wartime Washington"? Oh but I > guess they're not *really* black, are they? > > Steve > > On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Maria > Damon wrote: > > > Prefatory Note: The following statement has so far been co-signed by Ernest > > Allen, Derrick Bell, John Bracey, Dennis Brutus, Paul Buhle, Jayne Cortez, > > Susan G. Davis, Diane di Prima, Patricia Eakins, Paul Garon, Noel Ignatiev, > > Marie Kazalia, Robin D. G. Kelley, Don LaCoss, Harry Magdoff, Clive Matson, > > David Meltzer, Peter Rachleff, David Roediger, Franklin Rosemont, Penelope > > Rosemont, Mark Rosenzweig, Sonia Sanchez, Ron Sakolsky, Nelson Stevens, > > Askia Toure, among others. > > > > If YOU would like to add your signature, or know of others who would > > like to co-sign, please e-mail info@surrealism-usa.org > > > > > > POETRY MATTERS! > > On the Media Persecution of Amiri Baraka > > > > Poetry Festivals don?t usually trigger hate campaigns or Red Scares, but > > this year?s Geraldine Dodge Poetry Festival at Waterloo Village in > > Stanhope, New Jersey, proved to be different. There, on September 19th, > > Amiri Baraka read his poem "Somebody Blew Up America." The applause was > > thunderous, but some people apparently didn?t like it, for almost > > immediately the poet was singled out for an incredible barrage of > > vilification by Murdoch?s Fox News, the New York Times, the National > > Review, and scores?by now probably many hundreds?of bigoted, > > neoconservative, white-supremacist talk-shows and periodicals. Leading the > > assault on the poet is the so-called Anti-Defamation League (ADL), a > > powerful right-wing political organization notorious for its virulent > > opposition to Affirmative Action and for its routine use of character > > assassination against its critics. > > > > It so happens that Baraka wrote "Somebody Blew Up America" in > > September/October 2001, in the weeks following the tragedy known to all as > > "9-11." The 226-line poem was promptly posted on the Internet, copied onto > > many websites, and further publicized by the poet at numerous well-attended > > readings all over the U.S. and in many other countries. It quickly became > > one of the most widely circulated of his works. No attempt was made to > > conceal the fact that the poem was, in Baraka?s own words, "an attack on > > Imperialism, National Oppression, Monopoly Capitalism, Racism, > > Anti-Semitism," and that it was meant to "probe and disturb." Not until the > > Dodge Poetry Festival, however, did anyone object to it. > > > > What provoked the sudden media war on Amiri Baraka in September 2002? > > Assuredly it was not merely a difference of opinion regarding the art of > > poetry. In truth, despite the hue and cry, the poem itself is not the > > central issue here. In any event, the principal charge alleged against the > > poem (that it is "anti-Semitic") cannot withstand a moment?s critical > > examination. Indeed, with its salute to the memory of such revered Jewish > > revolutionists as Rosa Luxemburg, and the questions it raises about U.S. > > capitalism?s little-known complicity in the Holocaust, Baraka?s poem is > > explicitly against anti-Semitism and all racism. If the ADL?s hollow > > charge, repeated ad nauseam by the media, had even the slightest substance, > > how are we to account for the fact that it was completely unnoticed by the > > hundreds of thousands who had read or heard the poem during the preceding > > year? (The ADL, of course, construes any and all criticism of the Israeli > > government?even the merest mention of its long support of South African > > Apartheid, for example?as "anti-Semitic.") > > > > No less spurious is the ADL?s puerile argument that Baraka?s poem is > > helping to foment "anti-American xenophobia," but this charge?bristling > > with sinister insinuations?does bring us closer to the real issues at stake > > in the media "police action" against the > > > > > > > > poet. For what the ADL, neoconservatives and repentant ex-New-Leftists > > really hate about Baraka is that he is a sharp critic of this country?s > > anti-democratic institutions, and an activist who has time and again > > protested the U.S. government?s repressive role in foreign and domestic > > affairs. Worse yet, from the point of view of the white ruling class and > > the politicians who do its bidding, Baraka is also an outspoken > > revolutionary. > > > > Clearly, then, the real target of the ADL?s ongoing defamation of the > > author of "Somebody Blew Up America" is not that particular poem, or any > > other poem, but the poet himself, his revolutionary courage and audacity, > > and above all his ability to articulate the anxieties and yearnings of > > those "furthest down" in humankind?s long hard struggle against inequality > > and tyranny. > > > > The question, "Why did the assault on the poet start as late as September > > 2002?" is easily answered: Because in August, a few weeks before the Dodge > > Poetry Festival, Amiri Baraka became the poet laureate of the State of New > > Jersey. An honorary title with a small stipend, this was far from a > > position of power, but for the state?s corrupt "business-as-usual" > > Establishment, it was evidently way too much. > > > > And so Baraka?s poem?or rather, the distorted, out-of-context fragments > > quoted by his critics in the press and on TV?was made a pretext for racial > > and political persecution by that arch-enemy of all poetry, solidarity, and > > freedom: the white power structure. > > > > The ADL and other bigots are demanding that Baraka be removed as poet > > laureate. Cravenly submitting to white-supremacist pressure-groups, New > > Jersey Governor James E. McGreevey has formally asked the poet not only to > > resign as laureate, but also to apologize for his poem! Baraka has refused. > > > > In the current U.S. political climate: a climate of domination, fear, and > > insipid conformism; increasing government surveillance and curtailing of > > civil rights and liberties; persecution of immi-grants, radicals, and > > organized labor; massive militarization and flag-waving war hysteria, all > > promoted by an unelected President and a billionaire-owned media?the > > assault on Amiri Baraka is a matter of the greatest concern to all who care > > about human free-dom, the right to dream, and the right to speak out. > > > > This attack on a poet is an attack on all poets, all poetry, and all free > > speech. The persecution of Baraka is about stifling poetry, suppressing > > criticism, silencing voices of dissent. It is about censor-ship and > > coercion; the imposition of conformity and misery; the > denial of freedom. > > > > We say: > > > > Hands Off Amiri Baraka! > > > > Long live the unfettered imagination! > > > > An injury to One is an injury to All! > > > > -- > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 15:27:09 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: 'scuse me while I check my pie MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Some frank zapatista rebel yellow subhuman league of gentlemen prefer blonde on blondie's greatest hits of acid washed jean genesis three sides live at leads to meaty beaty big and bouncie bouncie soul records on the floor got my kiss records out of time and being and nothing better you better you butter toast same as the old boss those mighty mighty boss tunes on tail is this a cheap trick who's next puns on me yes bands on the running back to saskatoon doesn't rhyme with tangerine dream police on my back in the USSR you experienced welders needed some good loving spoonful of shit kicking boots made for christopher walken on the moon martin guitar strings of music references required inquire within and with out you know means no pressure drop kick out the lights fantastic night for a moondance the night away in a manger with electric light orchestral maneuvers in the dark side of the moon unit number nineteen I got your comfortably number three in the bed and the little one said move over movin' on over hills and far away from here comes the rain against the machine . In a spanokopita baby! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 11:08:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Tysh Subject: mark(s) release MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Greetings, The new issue of mark(s) is up! mark(s) v3.03 features poetry by Ted Greenwald, prose by Bhanu Kapil Rider, a memoir by Barbara Henning, plus web art by Gina Ferrari, Matthew Hanna, and Raul Ferrara-Balanquet. Visit mark(s) at http://www.markszine.com. Come back often to view new work, revisit our archives or connect to the growing list of links to metro Detroit's online cultural communities. this site requires a minimum screen resolution of 800x600 for viewing all best, Chris Tysh editor __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 15:12:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: discontinuous extroversion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CHRISTMAS CAROLS FOR THE PSYCHIATRICALLY CHALLENGED Schizophrenia --- Do You Hear What I Hear? Multiple Personality Disorder --- We Three Queens Disoriented Are Dementia --- I Think I'll be Home for Christmas Narcissistic --- Hark the Herald Angels Sing About Me Manic --- Deck the Halls and Walls and House and Lawn and Streets and Stores and Office and Town and Cars and Busses and Trucks and trees and Fire Hydrants and...... Paranoid --- Santa Claus is Coming to Get me Borderline Personality Disorder --- Thoughts of Roasting on an Open Fire Personality Disorder --- You Better Watch Out, I'm Gonna Cry, I'm Gonna Pout, Maybe I'll tell You Why Obsessive Compulsive Disorder ---Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Bell" To: Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 8:19 PM Subject: Re: a kinder way > discontinuous extroversion is the best suggestion I've gotten so far and > oddly enough it was given to me by someone who no longer posts to the > listserv because of discontinuous extraversion. > > tom bell > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 18:19:23 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: discontinuous extroversion MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT my feeling in eliciting 'discontinuous extroversion' was that it was applicable to us normals that exhibit ourselves here and elsewhere on the internet. a psychiatrist might call us demented, an academic might dismiss us as MPDs, but poetically we are us. with some being more discontinuous than others by posting by definition we become extroverts? tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoffrey Gatza" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 2:12 PM Subject: discontinuous extroversion > CHRISTMAS CAROLS FOR THE PSYCHIATRICALLY CHALLENGED > > Schizophrenia --- Do You Hear What I Hear? > > Multiple Personality Disorder --- We Three Queens Disoriented Are > > Dementia --- I Think I'll be Home for Christmas > > Narcissistic --- Hark the Herald Angels Sing About Me > > Manic --- Deck the Halls and Walls and House and Lawn and Streets and > Stores and Office and Town and Cars and Busses and Trucks and trees > and Fire Hydrants and...... > > Paranoid --- Santa Claus is Coming to Get me > > Borderline Personality Disorder --- Thoughts of Roasting on an Open > Fire > > Personality Disorder --- You Better Watch Out, I'm Gonna Cry, I'm > Gonna Pout, Maybe I'll tell You Why > > > Obsessive Compulsive Disorder ---Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle > Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, > Jingle Bells > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas Bell" > To: > Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 8:19 PM > Subject: Re: a kinder way > > > > discontinuous extroversion is the best suggestion I've gotten so far and > > oddly enough it was given to me by someone who no longer posts to the > > listserv because of discontinuous extraversion. > > > > tom bell > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 15:59:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: surrealist petition for baraka... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I sent off an email to the address Maria but the email was rejected. Best, Geoffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Allen Conrad" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 1:35 PM Subject: Re: surrealist petition for baraka... > whether you feel aligned or not (or whether you're serious or not) about being part of something coined "white power structure" might be a separate issue from being FEARLESS about language, and the desire to protect language, no matter who says it, and no matter what it is they say. as poets we need to have the courage to have our words and have space for other's words help make this world become itself in words. > > Baraka--whether or not you agree with what he says or feels--is rocking this great experiment we're all a part of. merely by speaking his mind, disregarding polite banter, he will help set us all free. the power of the language lies in our fearlessness when confronted by it or when confronting others with it. the engine of that is our own problem, and i hope we can all get it revved! > > Conrad > > In a message dated 12/11/2002 12:40:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, shoemak@FAS.HARVARD.EDU writes: > > > > > > > I was about to sign, but then it occurred to me that I might be a member > > of the "white power structure" and therefore "the arch-enemy of all > > poetry, solidary and freedom." And by the way, is Colin Powell a member > > of the white power structure? Or Condoleezza Rice--billed in the current > > Newsweek as "the most influential woman in wartime Washington"? Oh but I > > guess they're not *really* black, are they? > > > > Steve > > > > On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Maria > > Damon wrote: > > > > > Prefatory Note: The following statement has so far been co-signed by Ernest > > > Allen, Derrick Bell, John Bracey, Dennis Brutus, Paul Buhle, Jayne Cortez, > > > Susan G. Davis, Diane di Prima, Patricia Eakins, Paul Garon, Noel Ignatiev, > > > Marie Kazalia, Robin D. G. Kelley, Don LaCoss, Harry Magdoff, Clive Matson, > > > David Meltzer, Peter Rachleff, David Roediger, Franklin Rosemont, Penelope > > > Rosemont, Mark Rosenzweig, Sonia Sanchez, Ron Sakolsky, Nelson Stevens, > > > Askia Toure, among others. > > > > > > If YOU would like to add your signature, or know of others who would > > > like to co-sign, please e-mail info@surrealism-usa.org > > > > > > > > > POETRY MATTERS! > > > On the Media Persecution of Amiri Baraka > > > > > > Poetry Festivals don?t usually trigger hate campaigns or Red Scares, but > > > this year?s Geraldine Dodge Poetry Festival at Waterloo Village in > > > Stanhope, New Jersey, proved to be different. There, on September 19th, > > > Amiri Baraka read his poem "Somebody Blew Up America." The applause was > > > thunderous, but some people apparently didn?t like it, for almost > > > immediately the poet was singled out for an incredible barrage of > > > vilification by Murdoch?s Fox News, the New York Times, the National > > > Review, and scores?by now probably many hundreds?of bigoted, > > > neoconservative, white-supremacist talk-shows and periodicals. Leading the > > > assault on the poet is the so-called Anti-Defamation League (ADL), a > > > powerful right-wing political organization notorious for its virulent > > > opposition to Affirmative Action and for its routine use of character > > > assassination against its critics. > > > > > > It so happens that Baraka wrote "Somebody Blew Up America" in > > > September/October 2001, in the weeks following the tragedy known to all as > > > "9-11." The 226-line poem was promptly posted on the Internet, copied onto > > > many websites, and further publicized by the poet at numerous well-attended > > > readings all over the U.S. and in many other countries. It quickly became > > > one of the most widely circulated of his works. No attempt was made to > > > conceal the fact that the poem was, in Baraka?s own words, "an attack on > > > Imperialism, National Oppression, Monopoly Capitalism, Racism, > > > Anti-Semitism," and that it was meant to "probe and disturb." Not until the > > > Dodge Poetry Festival, however, did anyone object to it. > > > > > > What provoked the sudden media war on Amiri Baraka in September 2002? > > > Assuredly it was not merely a difference of opinion regarding the art of > > > poetry. In truth, despite the hue and cry, the poem itself is not the > > > central issue here. In any event, the principal charge alleged against the > > > poem (that it is "anti-Semitic") cannot withstand a moment?s critical > > > examination. Indeed, with its salute to the memory of such revered Jewish > > > revolutionists as Rosa Luxemburg, and the questions it raises about U.S. > > > capitalism?s little-known complicity in the Holocaust, Baraka?s poem is > > > explicitly against anti-Semitism and all racism. If the ADL?s hollow > > > charge, repeated ad nauseam by the media, had even the slightest substance, > > > how are we to account for the fact that it was completely unnoticed by the > > > hundreds of thousands who had read or heard the poem during the preceding > > > year? (The ADL, of course, construes any and all criticism of the Israeli > > > government?even the merest mention of its long support of South African > > > Apartheid, for example?as "anti-Semitic.") > > > > > > No less spurious is the ADL?s puerile argument that Baraka?s poem is > > > helping to foment "anti-American xenophobia," but this charge?bristling > > > with sinister insinuations?does bring us closer to the real issues at stake > > > in the media "police action" against the > > > > > > > > > > > > poet. For what the ADL, neoconservatives and repentant ex-New-Leftists > > > really hate about Baraka is that he is a sharp critic of this country?s > > > anti-democratic institutions, and an activist who has time and again > > > protested the U.S. government?s repressive role in foreign and domestic > > > affairs. Worse yet, from the point of view of the white ruling class and > > > the politicians who do its bidding, Baraka is also an outspoken > > > revolutionary. > > > > > > Clearly, then, the real target of the ADL?s ongoing defamation of the > > > author of "Somebody Blew Up America" is not that particular poem, or any > > > other poem, but the poet himself, his revolutionary courage and audacity, > > > and above all his ability to articulate the anxieties and yearnings of > > > those "furthest down" in humankind?s long hard struggle against inequality > > > and tyranny. > > > > > > The question, "Why did the assault on the poet start as late as September > > > 2002?" is easily answered: Because in August, a few weeks before the Dodge > > > Poetry Festival, Amiri Baraka became the poet laureate of the State of New > > > Jersey. An honorary title with a small stipend, this was far from a > > > position of power, but for the state?s corrupt "business-as-usual" > > > Establishment, it was evidently way too much. > > > > > > And so Baraka?s poem?or rather, the distorted, out-of-context fragments > > > quoted by his critics in the press and on TV?was made a pretext for racial > > > and political persecution by that arch-enemy of all poetry, solidarity, and > > > freedom: the white power structure. > > > > > > The ADL and other bigots are demanding that Baraka be removed as poet > > > laureate. Cravenly submitting to white-supremacist pressure-groups, New > > > Jersey Governor James E. McGreevey has formally asked the poet not only to > > > resign as laureate, but also to apologize for his poem! Baraka has refused. > > > > > > In the current U.S. political climate: a climate of domination, fear, and > > > insipid conformism; increasing government surveillance and curtailing of > > > civil rights and liberties; persecution of immi-grants, radicals, and > > > organized labor; massive militarization and flag-waving war hysteria, all > > > promoted by an unelected President and a billionaire-owned media?the > > > assault on Amiri Baraka is a matter of the greatest concern to all who care > > > about human free-dom, the right to dream, and the right to speak out. > > > > > > This attack on a poet is an attack on all poets, all poetry, and all free > > > speech. The persecution of Baraka is about stifling poetry, suppressing > > > criticism, silencing voices of dissent. It is about censor-ship and > > > coercion; the imposition of conformity and misery; the > > denial of freedom. > > > > > > We say: > > > > > > Hands Off Amiri Baraka! > > > > > > Long live the unfettered imagination! > > > > > > An injury to One is an injury to All! > > > > > > -- > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:00:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Spiral Bridge Subject: The Naked Readings (This Sunday) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Spiral Bridge=20 is pleased to be able to bring you=20 Another Naked Evening of Open Mic. Poetry and Art=20 @=20 The Bloomfield Ave. Cafe and Stage in the heart of Montclair, NJ. Join us this Sunday, December 15th @ 8pm for a "back to basics" reminder of what inspired us=20 to create and gather in the first place while we bridge the conscious with the unconscious mind in a spiral of = spoken words.=20 We ask a $5 donation at the door to help us continue offering this high = quality reality.=20 We're starting this December reading @ 8pm so get there early and sign = up to read your original poetry. "Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted." -Martin Luther King, Jr., Strength to Love, 1963 http://wWw.SpIrAlBrIdGe.OrG ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 14:36:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Hilton Obenzinger's post on significance of Viet-Nam Anti-War Protest Comments: cc: Hilton Obenzinger In-Reply-To: <002301c2a151$967443a0$605e3318@LINKAGE> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT (Can someone send Hilton the name/address of the Poetix Webmaster; apparently he can read but he can no longer deliver! Thanks, Stephen Vincent) Dear List, There has been some talk about the effectiveness of anti-war protests during the 60s and 70s, and I want to clarify something. For some reason, my new email program receives posts but the big Bufallo can't seem to recognize my replies, so I thank Stephen Vincent for allowing me to piggy-back on his address. The US was forced out of Vietnam because of the resistance of the Vietnamese, first and foremost, but the active and growing opposition by people in the US played a decisive role in hampering the US military strategy, as did the rest of international solidarity with the Vietnamese. LBJ was forced to abdicate, and Nixon was forced to do his dirty tricks and COINTELPRO because of the loud and persistent opposition to the war and racism. The antics of the anti-war movement became part of a strategy of undermining authority through laughter. I was there when Ginsberg levitated the Pentagon in 1967 -- no one expected the colossal building to OM its way to heaven, but it was hilarious. At a time when stone-faced creeps ran the show, laughter and poetry and spiritual adventure claimed an alternative worldview. They still do. Hilton Obenzinger ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:54:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: SECRET war memorandum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SECRET war memorandum Let's get going!:LET'S GET GOING!:let's get going!:Let's Get Going!:she screams in white-wound GODOD. labia in infra-red ululation. cunt disappears in white-wound GODOD. all JIN should die all MEN dead. let's get started! NO MORE WAR! let's make a gender! :outside the storm rages. it screams on the rooftops, originates in the sun. by virtue of momentum, sheer determination, it continues through the night. sin-song screaming NOW WE WILL CONFOUND THE JEWS. NOW WE WILL CONFOUND THE MUSLIMS. WE WILL unturn WARRIOR-WARRIOR. yuk-gun kun-in. HOW STUPID yuk-gun kun-in! :25529:7:sin. yo-sin. ha-na-nim. yong-hon. yong-jok. sin-song. held-stub. easier elsewhere, CONFOUND THE CHRISTIANS! linear JEWS. MUSLIMS. kwi-sin. how stupid unlining elsewhere. KATZ. neither GOD nor MAN. she screams in infra-red ululation; her hair, blemishes, lips, disappear, everything whitened. :she screams in white-wound GODOD. labia in infra-red ululation. cunt disappears in white-wound GODOD. all JIN should die all MEN dead. let's get started! NO MORE WAR! let's make a gender! :Let's Get Going! === ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:58:25 -0500 Reply-To: men2@columbia.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss Subject: Typology Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This came to me one evening. To say I wrote it would be an exaggeration, so be kind to it... Typology of Screwing There are two types of screwing: the copulatory and the carpentry and all effort must be made to keep them apart unfortunately, when the carpenter screws he does not recognize the difference and thinks during the whole procedure of his new, phallic, 5-button electric screwdriver: 3 speeds, two directions, and seven attachments unfortunately, he has only one attachment and it is highly unimpressive according to his long-suffering wife, who wishes he's switch it out for a larger one and use the burst acceleration mode available on his new tool but alas not on the tool he was born with she too has acquired a new tool with seven attachments but it has only two speeds nonetheless, she finds it highly satisfactory as she can attain pleasure without afterwards having to hear about late contractors, incompetent employees, lumber which hasn't arrived, the arrogance of electricians, the corruption in the union, and his own worries about his retirement fund she really wouldn't mind these conversations if she were allowed to give advuce and sympathy but there is onky one kind of sympathy he is inetrested in and after that he rolls over and snores loudly but not loud enough to drown out her worries that's when she goes to the bathroom with her new tool and gets the comfort she needs for trouble at her high stress job the son's learning disability the state of the world and her own physical discomfort because screwing can be either carorentry or copulatory and with her husband it is strictly carpentry Millie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 21:52:58 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: discon extro 1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT ... .... === == === Diversion 9/11 Extrusional splatter the net dis aint continuous tom bell &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&cetera: Poetry at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/publicat.html Gallery - Metaphor/Metonym for Health at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Health articles at http://psychology.healingwell.com/ Reviews at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/reviews.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:47:17 -0500 Reply-To: Allen Bramhall Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Allen Bramhall Subject: surrealist barakarakakakakakaka MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i wish i was the best balloon, the colour of splendour as a radical idea, going down into space, which arches over us, and we gasp in awe. that's the dedication, currently, the instant moment of saying persecution, which is the rhetoric left to us. like, say, a crosswalk, and how we dispel traffic by walking between. but, thinking clearly but not for long, the idea seems mobile, as if we should all, period. exactly how is the saying said, anyway? like, was there a day when we decided? or should we be definite in the unction of our rhetiorical style? why not give an ocean a chance, as it rolls up the shore, possibly to swallow all the nifty beachhouses that are the precinct of some imaginations still. expecting to be set free, which is a slant across the paper that is only vaguely in attendence, the dime on which we spin. but the given is constant, unless taken. my balloon, a chance to record, floats flaw, but langauge, after all, is a charge. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:47:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Tysh Subject: mark(s) release Comments: cc: poetics@acsu.buffalo.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Greetings, The new issue of mark(s) is up! mark(s) v3.03 features poetry by Ted Greenwald, prose by Bhanu Kapil Rider, a memoir by Barbara Henning, plus web art by Gina Ferrari, Matthew Hanna, and Raul Ferrara-Balanquet. Visit mark(s) at http://www.markszine.com. Come back often to view new work, revisit our archives or connect to the growing list of links to metro Detroit's online cultural communities. this site requires a minimum screen resolution of 800x600 for viewing all best, Chris Tysh editor __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 00:14:41 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Psychos of Mass Destruction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please spread far and wide... Our president-self-elect and his pack of psychos today (11 December 2002) have threatened the world with nuclear strikes. If they decide that they suspect someone even of THINKING about building any such weapons, they insist they have the right to--get this--nuke them. Q: What's the point of STOPPING weapons of mass destruction if you use them to stop them? A: TERROR! And Al Gore, Mr. Walden Beach, says he agrees with this murderous, unilateralist, psychotic, & unparalleled crime scheme. IMPEACH GEORGE BUSH!!! GET HIM OUT!!! HE'S GOING TO KILL LOTS OF PEOPLE This guy wants to set the new standard for infamy. THEIR POLICIES AND ACTIONS ARE BEYOND ANY RATIONAL ANAYSIS OF POLICY THEY MUST BE STOPPED BEFORE THEY GET US ALL WIPED OUT!!!!!! In this newly-released document, the euphemism for pre-emptive strikes is called "active defenses." He is inviting terrorism in our country, begging that other people try and destroy us, and even threatening to nuke other people is not going to make our homes any safer. Turning cities in impoverished foreign nations into molten glass isn't going to take apart terrorist cells or stop the horrors of weapons of mass destruction. To think that people out there think this is a good idea is absolutely horrifying. While it isn't unreasonable for the US Government to act swiftly and with force against a clear and present WMD threat against the US, it's not even in the range of reason to nuke someone because they might have thought about obtaining WMDs. This sort of policy makes the Inquisition look like some sort of traveling circus. There he goes, terrorizing all people again... Read it for yourself... http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/12/WMDStrategy.pdf If you aren't choosing to be political now, someone's gonna make you political and not give you a choice about it. Get motivated, get active, get vocal, and mobilize for change. NOW. Now is not the time to await our doom. Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org Dick Cheney Before He Dicks You ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 21:49:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: LIFELESS PAGODA / ALPHA MATRIX In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit LIFELESS PAGODA R OB B F A G R M C M P Q F C N J G B D H P D Q ME N H O C E F I N L Q IN PD GE F O K M J H K J G E L JI O O R K H K P J K F I D I L K JN L GH J L I QL PM S E GM K H M HM N N C L F G R I O N O Q T M L F EP J N M P Q O E D S KK RB O QD C R U P S P C L T R BT J B Q Q U M N S A A A R S V V U I R T N S W > UNREST IN WAVES * * * ALPHA MATRIX A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z B C X Y D E F U V W G S T H R I C J Q X D W E K P V F U G T O S W D H L E R V F I U G J Q T E V F H S U G I K N P R T M F S U H Q G J T I R H O S G L T K P I J Q R H S H R S I J P Q K O I L R J Q N P R I K M J Q L O P J K Q J K O P Q L K M N P L O P K K L O P M N L O L O L M N O L N O M M N M N M M N N M M N N M M M M M M M M M M M M M N N N N N N N N N N N N N O O L L O O L L O L O L L P O K P O L K P K P K O L Q P K J J Q P K Q O L J K R Q P J I R J I Q P K R I L J H S Q O R I S K H P J R Q I H T S G T G S R I H Q J U K F T P G S H U I F R G V T E L U S Q O J H F V T G E W D U R I F V H E W S D K G C X T P U F V E W Q J D X C Y R I B H S G U T F X W V E D C Z Y B A Z Y X W V U T S R Q P O N M L K J I H G F E D C B A ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 00:15:53 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: ATMOSPHERE #0035 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TEDDY WARBURG ATMOSPHERE #0035 [excerpt] www.voice-of-the-village.com Ferencz Zerhazy vice lord-lieutenant the county Beastly fine day reception plates hooks for mugs were often fixed upon the phrenic surface convex borrowed three roubles people house who loved much pleased give roan leaned forward rest arm saddle horn probed for mine concavity the Public meeting? inquired Noggs distinguished pianist was appointed god! everywhere turn bishops had wished do for between sense-impressions and mental images highly was him lay the song hundred times Seleucids was weak kissed want sit waiting training scheduled point waiting his pupils Wyttenbach's own father was also theological attacked Ptolemy the whatever had done far puzzle present wish find right first day start inward quest through discrimination girl afford design designer may perhaps other parts certain muscles way undo man know Find girl trick uncle's recommendation done Nickleby Jesus the one hand the sacrificial word Aesop money now Katerina Ivanovna once sure say sends with the found ringing girls ears felt own hard into crisp bun say what????? looking From his great dialectical skill earned the title harassing impression left conversation Ivan now persistently asked getting very moment while Belgium Baden Bavaria Hesse Prussia Saxony Japan heard Poland seemed leap eastern Europe both north and south the country which they inscriptions impressions applications such marking inks man who given lie direct effort Diodotus possess gold kissed want sit waiting training scheduled point waiting silver an angle about between Gubernatis Zoological Mythology forced Even understood matter lights looking left understand why looking into stupid think feel hearing research going all these hiding suddenly heard landlord shout Woman! saw nothing disagreeable sense something repugnant claiming descent from took shaving gear with limited the choice same moment landlord gripping isw tan -m that the Moreover both ways nikki said Why Alyosha hard frightened grip looking languages were generally handled the desperately needed him where looking into stupid think feel hearing research going all these hidden saw looking into stupid think feel hearing research going all these peeping hiding-place seeming looking passage whether fear tell ringing girls ears felt own hard into crisp bun say what????? ran headlong cylindrical brushes which are mounted end endon why Alyosha's through place where wall mother's even believing immortality will find love freedom equality point Sense seeing these things showed wall only vague upright shadow unsubstantial immediately looking into stupid think feel hearing research going all these lost dull violet gloom same time felt landlord press languages were generally handled the desperately needed him naked before him her from above Putney Bridge finishing Mortlake something passed jerk means suitable mechanical throughout that northern area called her door church and built church for them Turin lived knelt hoarse sort cry Woman! Woman! turned shade clumsily off lantern seen Woman passage showed empty shone which are now Doreen Brian going get some pizza across street light jerkily fro are Martin another important Waldensian valley which dim light direction doorway mother's room sugar deliciously morning when woke drought Northeast Brazil drought Zimbabwe major effects kissed want sit waiting training scheduled point waiting has tribunal first instance ELECTIONS and for other countries under their respective titles trade The apart image may have intensity far greater than that my hand aggressive fashion intent kill harm people response needs one reduces teased matter holy carries heart secret renewal all power will future Mythologie und Religioiisgeschichte Farnell next few days were more bra obviously worn try further information with regard what has been left that his attributes goodness knowledge kissed want sit waiting training scheduled point waiting power praying same God representation that taxation the possession Yes imperfectly qualified will siked up? Waldenses Vallenses was derived from Vallis because those leave loads filling her pussy facts the seal fisheries the northern coasts Popular Tribunals San Francisco the county London Pop The name kissed want sit waiting training scheduled point waiting remembers too? observation showed to moving nearly circular trust me? start problems Representatives Geological History Plants The kissed want sit waiting training scheduled point waiting Solutions First Principles Anopiat xr?ts Irepi make sure that her first other lake ports kissed want sit waiting training scheduled point waiting connected ferry with Mackinac kissed want sit waiting training scheduled point waiting feigning sleep nothing kirsten said officially lord general the army arm arm simply watching Owen stroking his forces military operations wartime other national emergencies which felt kirsten's hand suck clit inserted one two fingers very wet cunt very good oral ridges distinctive the ordinary resistance the Conqueror who Battle Vittoria which the bugle elephant kissed want sit waiting training scheduled point waiting moment eye rested young Pupkin Pavlovitch who among sprang forward declared means impossible imagined none leaked out orgasm made composers however regarded the Ionian mode the least you know agrarian festivals held honour Demeter the minds officially lord general the army arm arm simply watching Owen Chileans kissed want sit waiting training scheduled point waiting Argentines roan leaned forward rest arm saddle horn probed for mine position felt shear hatred for where she knelt with her top him has run differen species Eucalyptus has been used paper cheeseburgers interesting things around here get the Rumanian and her suck his forces military operations wartime other national emergencies --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 00:17:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: ATMOSPHERE #0036 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TEDDY WARBURG ATMOSPHERE #0036 [excerpt] www.voice-of-the-village.com Nicholas looked sleepers first voice Squeers heard feel the names Viach and Ruman but also popular and literary dolt established And the disk also carries the index arm which stairs yes smiled threatened with starvation last Pan the old god greatest fame daylight strategic bombings Europe August gust two combatants went work beforehand stay tell morning come home mattress pillow all? inference short sailor reduced extremity give once cry quarter instead acquire job now take vision turn desired end-states dream sudden drew large pistol ankles for cycle-making and with Bedworth and Nuneaton and the presented face tall sailor who overcome expecting let short sailor pick sword moaned pleasure gathering quite crowd now everyone wanted see used triangular frame provided which and this method both quick chopping recommenced variety fancy chops administered communal college among the the strict execution the placards sides such chops dealt left hand leg right shoulder left short sailor made vigorous cut tall sailor's legs shaved clean off taken effect tall sailor jumped short sailor's sword wherefore prey her She wanders compound dissolved water long exposure air matter make acquire job now take vision turn desired end-states dream fair tall sailor administered same cut short sailor jumped sword good deal dodging hitching inexpressibles woman well who known lovingly down eve's she small pinion everywhere leading bloodshed wrath accursed cruel God will save short sailor who moral brightness stars the series pattern plug-resistance bridge Post evidently she piled them you're doing me? asked all Dmitri Fyodorovitch pretty hot constance said near terrible tragedies real life made violent demonstration closed tall sailor who few unavailing struggles went down expired great torture short sailor put foot Jonah leaned slightly forward chair look stern hellfire bored hole through through found not only our actions good Citizens receive its pull are clear movement removed her looking around guardians constituted the meal Lord's Supper nor even the circumstances Very good monsieur shut locked find key All see outside room body know still bad with grin worthy these things him receive its pull are clear movement removed her looking around when concludes the prayer enjoyable other man pulled into parking garage remember looked him smiled communal college among the the strict execution the placards longer long while Kate said lifted soon his dad natural relax got little sleep later woke Peter know grab ass black dick she said soaked fingers dance lightly coffee drunk felt Clark Murdock weights the scales will have the effect ofraising stream let go! approximately correct domestication used loosely took beautiful porcelain ass collections Scotto and other doing nothing all day? thank condemnation that council involved whilst look Grey Room opened door peeped candles still burning wan and accurate They are also development the Waldensian body was daylight pale glowing star Electric Pentacle middle ring gateway monster lying demure ordinary put hands kirsten's epilogue for two purposes either asseri the merit the cried Miss Squeers occasioned the ountry eight months civil warfare The extraordinary time the regulations common all constancy action might expected special occasions when the giving the cup would immediately follow the breaking gave the world available battlefield peacetime information importance carries his wanderings which was shudders kirsten gave one plain the banks the Scarpe which intersects the town from described while the intensity factors potential velocity memory tabella slip wood coated with wax for all business done DIODATI GIOVANNI Church one the predominant race needs survive Sex sex-related dreams necessary names the sacrament the Lord's the nominative was Well hansen remarks stream let go! approximately correct domestication used loosely thousand guineas the thanks the English parliament memory tabella slip wood coated with wax for all business done mouth head my cock pulsating her mouth from behind obtains relative majority elected i's necessary and Shag Yes ghost London Several local races word pull out your dick But the days their full political elephant have Jerry Hawthorne memory tabella slip wood coated with wax for all business done his Elegant Friend Corinthian Tom who dearly wanted moment lasted forever both memories officially Paolo Sarpi whom endeavoured unsuccessfully appointed historiographer France when that place even take off right now Jill one thing never really expected glory holes acquire job now take vision turn desired end-states dream suppose put water lifeboat touched first time old Macdonald Government placed Lake Wissanotti reaching nearly some provinces the offer the countship July Two sides red candle Thecircumference the name river memory tabella slip wood coated with wax for all business done two lakes the north-west Ireland The Aug Tactical Reconnaissance Wing deploys six document brought them my soft more easily hot blush shopper said Gulf when that parliament elected Amadeus Savoy died Madrid first intense parts for double chorus the two groups are seldom the many examples old Paul's The shhh she heard its own weighbridge fhere are many kinds destroyed honey-like consistency receive its pull are clear movement removed her looking around which gradually hardens with they giggled Alyosha opinion desperately anxious hear? and Hoorn memory tabella slip wood coated with wax for all business done sent the West Indies succeed Lord Hugh Seymour into circulation and possible only when the people have ceased assume shifting having been countermarked the Mint Tall dark sucking juices supply the European market memory tabella slip wood coated with wax for all business done the desire --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 06:56:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: KSW Men's Choir Sings Seasonal Favourites (Vancouver) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Kootenay School of Writing >Reading/Book Sale/Party >Friday December 13 th 8 pm KSW time >201-505 Hamilton Street Vancouver BC The all-male auxilary to the KSW Collective Choir, members Ted Byrne, Roger Farr, Aaron Vidaver, Michael Barnholden, Andrew Klobucar, Peter Conlin, Greg Placonouris and perhaps others will grace the hall with merry seasonal dalliances, accompanied and otherwise. If we can exert enough subtle pressure, Kirsten Forkert, Margot Leigh Butler and Dorothy Trujillo Lusk from the full KSW Collective Choir may sing compelling solos from primarily festive works. Or not. Expect holiday hijinks. Books and/or the fetish objects formerly known as books including recent donations from a well known, recently downsized, local poet will be for sale, rent or lease. Bring cash and haggle. One stop shopping, for all your holiday gift purchases to fit every budget. Liquid refreshments will be served at modest prices. Bring finger foods to share with friends and companeros. See you there. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 10:24:19 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: discontinuous extroversion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/11/02 3:12:42 PM, ggatza@DAEMEN.EDU writes: << CHRISTMAS CAROLS FOR THE PSYCHIATRICALLY CHALLENGED Schizophrenia --- Do You Hear What I Hear? Multiple Personality Disorder --- We Three Queens Disoriented Are Dementia --- I Think I'll be Home for Christmas Narcissistic --- Hark the Herald Angels Sing About Me Manic --- Deck the Halls and Walls and House and Lawn and Streets and Stores and Office and Town and Cars and Busses and Trucks and trees and Fire Hydrants and...... Paranoid --- Santa Claus is Coming to Get me Borderline Personality Disorder --- Thoughts of Roasting on an Open Fire Personality Disorder --- You Better Watch Out, I'm Gonna Cry, I'm Gonna Pout, Maybe I'll tell You Why Obsessive Compulsive Disorder ---Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells >> And happy holidays to you and Donna, Geoff! I'm printing these out and circulating. Very funny. Best, Bill farmingdale.edu/~Austinwj KojaPress.com Amazon.com BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:13:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Re: surrealist petition for baraka... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Steven- Your clever questions deserve simple answers. Are Colin Powell & Condoleeza Rice "really" black? Yes. They really are. Are they members of the "white power structure"? Yes. They really are. Frank Sherlock ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:56:59 -0500 Reply-To: men2@columbia.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss Subject: after travelling a little in AMERICA Comments: To: Martha L Deed , webartery@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Passing of The Town I. the perturbations of the new erase reality II. lament, lament, lament a world is passing III. towns turn into giant Walmarts lose their greens and people droids replace inhabitants IV. bulldozers have taken away the old houses Home Depot is there instead full of products for building new houses but nobody ever does V. you cannot recognize your childhood street not just the houses but the hills are gone and yet the new houses look old does that mean you, too, are old? the people in the houses never knew your neighbors VI. what was town hall is now a bingo room (run by the township to pay for the elephantine cost of adding amenities to a town destroyed) the original building with its majestic steps and cupola has been forever debauched better it should have been razed like the rest VII. sick of the strip the inhabitants yearn for a downtown and so some of the last remaining old houses are condemned along with their elderly residents (sent to the county home) and a pedestrian mall is built in the style of a downtown shopping area VIII. there are little shops but not the ones there were these shops have a taint of quaintness and resemble each other subtly not surprising because they're all owned by Walmart which has spread its wares into "boutiques" with fake differences in taste and merchandise IX. nonetheless the new shopping area proves to be popular with its well-placed bathrooms like any good mall and natural-styled seasonal plants in bins a new pedestrian life emerges centered on the giant parking lot which took out the grocery, barbershop, and mill no manufacturing mars the new town center and all the jobs consist of scooping ice-cream or making cappucino X. this great transformation supposedly brought more work but not for rubbery-handed veterans of the mill who went to work at eighteen in 1938 even their grandchildren aren't aesthetic enough for espresso they instead clean the bathrooms invisibly earning less than grandpa did no union allowed X. the cemetery where grandpa is buried is now a mingolf the most authentic thing in the town gravestones serve as obstacles along with giant skulls with glowing eyes and a waterway that imitates the River Styx complete with electronic half-dead guardian of the underworld the three headed dog Cerberus only he is a mascot for a muffler company and if your ball falls in his mouth you get a new muffler for free at the end of the final hole the balls drop down into the hill where no one dares retrieve them someone's grave full of decaying sinews is filling with immortal golf balls XI. now the town is named as one of the nicest places to live in a leading magazine the old inhabitants are dead and gone and the new ones wouldn't know a genuine town if they saw one in fact they'd find it inferior because unpredictable X. mourn o mourn the passing of the town the new world is full of fakery but we no longer know the difference mourn o mourn the passing of the people of the town the droids have arrived Millie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 11:02:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: WHEN 6 IS 9 In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit * * * * * * * * * * When 6 is 9 (2002) * * * * * * * * * * 000 # VIOLENCE VIOLENCE VIOLENCE VIOLENCE VIOLENCE VIOLENCE 001 # 002 # 003 # 004 # 005 # U U U 006 # N N N 007 # N M M N M M N M M 008 # D D D 009 # 010 # K K K 011 # 012 # 013 # 014 # 015 # U T U T U T 016 # 017 # 018 # 019 # M M M 020 # M L M L M L 021 # L L L 022 # E E E 023 # H H H H H H 024 # S M S M S M 025 # 026 # 027 # 028 # 029 # 030 # 031 # J L J L J L 032 # 033 # L K L K L K 034 # R R R 035 # K K K 036 # F F F 037 # 038 # 039 # 040 # 041 # 042 # 043 # K K K 044 # Q Q Q 045 # 046 # T K J T K J T K J 047 # 048 # 049 # J J J 050 # G G G 051 # I I I 052 # 053 # P P P 054 # 055 # J J J 056 # 057 # 058 # 059 # J I J I J I 060 # 061 # 062 # 063 # O I O I O I 064 # H H H 065 # 066 # 067 # I I I 068 # G G G G G G 069 # N N N 070 # 071 # H H H 072 # I H N I H N I H N 073 # 074 # 075 # 076 # S S S 077 # H H H 078 # I I I 079 # H H H 080 # 081 # 082 # M M M 083 # 084 # 085 # H G H G H G 086 # 087 # 088 # 089 # 090 # 091 # G L G G G L G G G L G G 092 # J J J 093 # A A A 094 # 095 # 096 # 097 # 098 # G F G F G F 099 # 100 # 101 # K K K 102 # 103 # 104 # F F F 105 # F F F 106 # R K R K R K 107 # 108 # 109 # 110 # 111 # F E J F E J F E J 112 # F F F 113 # 114 # F F F F F F 115 # O O O 116 # E E E 117 # 118 # 119 # E E E 120 # L I L I L I 121 # 122 # 123 # 124 # E D E D E D 125 # 126 # 127 # 128 # D D D 129 # 130 # H H H 131 # 132 # E E E 133 # D D D 134 # M M M 135 # 136 # 137 # Q D C Q D C Q D C 138 # 139 # G G G 140 # C C C 141 # 142 # 143 # 144 # 145 # 146 # 147 # C C C 148 # N N N 149 # F F F 150 # C B C B C B 151 # 152 # D B D B D B 153 # 154 # 155 # 156 # 157 # 158 # E E E 159 # E E E E E E 160 # P P P 161 # B B B 162 # O O O 163 # B A B A B A 164 # A A A 165 # 166 # 167 # P P P 168 # D D D 169 # 170 # 171 # 172 # C C C 173 # 174 # 175 # A A A 176 # A P A P A P 177 # 178 # C C C 179 # 180 # 181 # 182 # 183 # PEACE PEACE PEACE PEACE PEACE PEACE PEACE PEACE PEACE 184 # 185 # 186 # 187 # 188 # D D D 189 # 190 # B AO A B AO A B AO A 191 # B B B 192 # 193 # 194 # D D D 195 # 196 # 197 # 198 # E E E 199 # Q Q Q 200 # 201 # 202 # B B B 203 # C B C B C B 204 # N N N 205 # C C C 206 # O O O 207 # F F F F F F 208 # F F F 209 # 210 # 211 # 212 # 213 # 214 # E C E C E C 215 # 216 # D C D C D C 217 # G G G 218 # M M M 219 # D D D 220 # 221 # 222 # 223 # 224 # 225 # 226 # D D D 227 # H H H 228 # 229 # R E D R E D R E D 230 # 231 # 232 # L L L 233 # E E E 234 # F F F 235 # 236 # I I I 237 # 238 # E E E 239 # 240 # 241 # 242 # F E F E F E 243 # 244 # 245 # 246 # K J K J K J 247 # F F F 248 # 249 # 250 # F F F 251 # N N N 252 # G G G G G G 253 # 254 # G G G 255 # G F K G F K G F K 256 # 257 # 258 # 259 # 260 # S J S J S J 261 # G G G 262 # G G G 263 # 264 # 265 # L L L 266 # 267 # 268 # H G H G H G 269 # 270 # 271 # 272 # 273 # 274 # I I I 275 # H M H H H M H H H M H H 276 # 277 # 278 # 279 # 280 # 281 # I H I H I H 282 # 283 # 284 # N N N 285 # 286 # 287 # I I I 288 # H H H 289 # I I I 290 # T T T 291 # 292 # 293 # 294 # J I O J I O J I O 295 # I I I 296 # 297 # M M M 298 # H H H H H H 299 # J J J 300 # 301 # 302 # G G G 303 # P J P J P J 304 # 305 # 306 # 307 # K J K J K J 308 # 309 # 310 # 311 # K K K 312 # 313 # Q Q Q 314 # 315 # J J J 316 # F F F 317 # K K K 318 # 319 # 320 # U L K U L K U L K 321 # 322 # R R R 323 # L L L 324 # 325 # 326 # 327 # 328 # 329 # 330 # E E E 331 # L L L 332 # S S S 333 # M L M L M L 334 # 335 # K M K M K M 336 # 337 # 338 # 339 # 340 # 341 # 342 # T L T L T L 343 # I I I I I I 344 # D D D 345 # M M M 346 # N M N M N M 347 # N N N 348 # 349 # 350 # 351 # V U V U V U 352 # 353 # 354 # 355 # 356 # L L L 357 # 358 # C C C 359 # O N N O N N O N N 360 # O O O 361 # V V V 362 # 363 # 364 # 365 # /// # VIOLENCE VIOLENCE VIOLENCE VIOLENCE VIOLENCE VIOLENCE ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:31:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: Poetry Project Announcements Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit TOMORROW AND NEXT WEEK AT THE POETRY PROJECT *** FRIDAY DECEMBER 13 [10:30pm] THE BEST OF SUMMER 2002 ROOFTOP FILMS MONDAY DECEMBER 16 [8:00pm] JULIAN SEMILIAN AND GARRETT KALLEBERG WEDNESDAY DECEMBER 18 [8:00pm] ROBERT ASHLEY AND EMILY XYZ http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html *** FRIDAY DECEMBER 13 [10:30pm] THE BEST OF SUMMER 2002 ROOFTOP FILMS Rooftop Films Indoors was founded in 1997 by filmmakers who were interested in making, watching, and talking about good films in a relaxed, communal environment. It is a volunteer-run non-profit corporation which promotes low-budget filmmaking in New York City. This evening will be curated by Rooftop's Moira Griffin and will showcase the best shorts from the summer 2002 series. Also featuring "Broken English" with DJ Brett Creshaw and other DJs, and open mike TBA. MONDAY DECEMBER 16 [8:00pm] JULIAN SEMILIAN AND GARRETT KALLEBERG Julian Semilian is a poet, translator, novelist, and filmmaker. Spuyten Duyvil Press has published a book of poems, Transgender Organ Grinder (2002) and Green Integer will publish Semilian's translation of Paul Celan's Romanian poems this year. His work has appeared in Exquisite Corpse, Suitcase, Arshile, Callaloo, World Letter, Syllogism, Trepan, Romania Libera, and Vatra (Romania). Andrei Codrescu writes: "Light permeates his constructs and the reader can lift the skin of reference like a feather, amazed at its soft touch. To be alone with these poems is to have enough toys to outlast the blackout." Garrett Kalleberg is the author of Some Mantic Daemons, Psychological Corporations, and Limbic Odes. Ann Lauterbach writes on Some Mantic Daemons: "For those who wish to go where poetry is rendered as a limitless limit, fretted with knowings and unknowings and their generative inquisitions. Once again, the life of the mind finds its avatar." His poems and reviews have appeared in Sulfur, First Intensity, Denver Quarterly, Mandorla, American Letters Commentary, and in An Anthology of New (American) Poets (Talisman House). In Brooklyn, New York, he publishes the online literary journal The Transcendental Friend, and audio CD imprint Immanent Audio. Garrett is also a principal in the theatrical company, Brooklyn Drama Club, whose The Situation Room is currently showing in New York. WEDNESDAY DECEMBER 18 [8:00pm] ROBERT ASHLEY AND EMILY XYZ Robert Ashley is known for his work in new forms of opera and multi-disciplinary projects. During the 1970s, he produced and directed Music with Roots in the Aether, a 14-hour television opera/documentary about the work and ideas of seven American composers. Ashley wrote and produced Perfect Lives, an opera for television widely considered to be the precursor of "music-television." More recently, he has completed When Famous Last Words Fail You for the American Composers Orchestra, Your Money My Life Good-bye for Bayerischer Rundfunk, and Dust for premiere at the Kanagawa Arts Foundation in Yokohama. He is at work on a new opera entitled Celestial Excursions, commissioned by the Berlin Festival, to be presented at the Hebbel Theater (Berlin) in March 2003 and at the Kitchen (New York) in April 2003. Emily XYZ has been creating verbal soundscapes for single and multiple voices since 1980. She has performed at the Sydney Arts Festival and the Ottawa Arts Center. Other performances abroad include Munich, Leipzig, Heidelberg and Berlin. In the USA appearances include the Green Mill in Chicago, the Hayti Arts Center in Durham, North Carolina, and in New York at Alice Tully Hall, Jackie 60, the Nuyorican, CBGB, Dixon Place, MoMa, and the Bowery Poetry Club. Her online poetry store debuts this month at www.emilyxyz.com. *** Unless otherwise noted, admission to all events is $10, $7 for students and seniors, and $5 for Poetry Project members. Schedule is subject to change. The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church in-the-Bowery at 131 E. 10th Street, on the corner of 2nd Avenue in Manhattan. Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. The Poetry Project is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information, or e-mail us at poproj@poetryproject.com. *** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:04:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: shopping for the kids at x-mas... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i guess kids need to know that the rules of combat include bombing civilian homes & using them as outposts... http://www3.jcpenney.com/jcp/Products.asp?GrpTyp=PRD&ItemID=05b5baa&RefPage= Products all that's missing are the bodies of the family who once lived there... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:06:47 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian Randall Wilson Subject: Temenos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some months ago there was a post about Temenos Magazine. They took some work and announced they were publishing in June. Here it is December and nothing. Their hotmail email address seems defunct. Anyone know anything about them? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 16:28:50 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Celebrating Mary Dalton's New Chapbook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII st. john's, NF Running the Goat, Books & Broadsides is pleased to announce its newest chapbook -- Merrybegot, by Mary Dalton. The chapbook will be launched Tuesday, December 17th at the Gallery of the LSPU Hall from 7 - 9 pm. There will be readings by Mary Dalton, songs from Anita Best and tunes from Colin Carrigan and Graham Wells. Cash bar. Please come and help us celebrate this lovely new book! A sequence of thirteen poems, "Merrybegot" is part of a larger and already much-acclaimed poetic project which has grown out of Dalton's deep love of, and deep listening to, Newfoundland speech. Handset in 12 point Fournier, and printed letterpress on Arches Text paper, the book measures 5 1/2 x 6 inches, has grey Somegami endpapers and cranberry Classic Linen cover. It also includes an original lino cut, designed by Anita Singh, and printed chine-colle by her, Rachel Dragland and the publisher. Limited to an edition of 150, signed by the author. The book sells for $30 plus shipping, and is available directly from the publisher. After the 17th, it will also be available from the Craft Council's shop at Devon House and Bennington Gate. For more information, contact Marnie Parsons at mparsons@roadrunner.nf.net or runningthegoat@roadrunner.nf.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:07:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: shopping for the kids at x-mas... In-Reply-To: <000d01c2a211$52a1bbb0$0100a8c0@vaio> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT A JC Penney Homeland Security Doll House. Eat your heart out Jeff Wall. Note the 19th Century American Style frontier quilt on the floor underneath the AK - I suspect the quilt connotes warmth, and security in the face of the oncoming "Injuns". Stephen V on 12/12/02 11:04 AM, Duration Press at jerrold@DURATIONPRESS.COM wrote: > i guess kids need to know that the rules of combat include bombing civilian > homes & using them as outposts... > > http://www3.jcpenney.com/jcp/Products.asp?GrpTyp=PRD&ItemID=05b5baa&RefPage= > Products > > all that's missing are the bodies of the family who once lived there... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 15:11:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Another South (from University of Alabama Press) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Below this short note is the the announcement for the most recent volume in= =20 the Modern and Contemporary Poetics series that I edit with Hank Lazer.=20 We've been sending announcements of our series titles to the list for=20 several years and now have a web site that give information about each of=20 the books: http://www.uapress.ua.edu/authors/poetics3.html Recent books include _Telling It Slant: Avant-Gard Poetics of the 1990s_,=20 edited by Mark Wallace and Steven Marks; Rachel Tzvia Bok's _Led by=20 Language: The Poetry and Poetics of Susan Howe_; the long-awaited=20 paperback edition of Nathaniel Mackey's essays, _Discrepent Engagement_; We= =20 Who Love to Be Astonished: Experimental Women's Writing and Performance=20 Poetics_, edited by Laura Hinton and Cynthia Hogue; Juliana Spahr's=20 _Everybody's Autonomy_; essay collections by Lorenzo Thomas and Kathleen=20 Fraser; Loss Glazier's _Digitial Poetics_; and _Architectural Body_ by=20 Madeline Gins and Arakawa. Not to mention our Objectivist collection: Mark= =20 Scroggins's _Louis Zukofsky and the Poetry of Knowledge_ and the=20 DuPlessis/Quatermain anthology of essays. Amidst all this, it's a pleasure to announce ANOTHER SOUTH, which is filled= =20 with vibrant language and unexpected forms by many poets whose work I am=20 just getting to know. The anthology is all the more interesting because of= =20 its imagining of regional poetic work in terms of affiliation and=20 noncentric connectedness. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----------- Another South Experimental Writing in the South Edited by Bill Lavender Introduction by Hank Lazer "An upstart collection, and it's high time." --C. D. Wright, author of Deepstep Come Shining This collection gathers the best work of flourishing but often-neglected=20 avant-garde southern poets, who collectively represent a new direction of=20 southern writing that is at once universal in its appeal and regional in=20 its flavor. The selected writers are working in forms that are radical,=20 innovative, and visionary, employing devices such as syntactical=20 disjunctions, formal revolutions, or playful typography. Focusing on poets currently residing in the South, the anthology includes=20 both emerging and established voices in the national and international=20 literary world. From the invocations of Andy Young's "Vodou Headwashing=20 Ceremony" to the blues-informed poems of Lorenzo Thomas and Honoree=20 Jeffers, from the different voicings of John Lowther and Kalamu ya Salaam=20 to the visual, multi-genre art of Jake Berry, David Thomas Roberts, and Bob= =20 Grumman, the poetry in Another South is rich in variety and enthusiastic in= =20 its explorations of new ways to embody place and time. These writers have=20 made the South lush with a poetic avant-garde all its own, not only=20 redefining southern identity and voice but also offering new models of what= =20 is possible universally through the medium of poetry. Hank Lazer's introductory essay on "Kudzu textuality" contextualizes the=20 work by these contemporary innovators. Like the uncontrollable runaway vine= =20 that entwines the southern landscape, their poems are hyperfertile,=20 stretching their roots and shoots relentlessly, at once destructive and=20 regenerative. In making a radical departure from nostalgic southern=20 literary voices, these poems of polyvocal abundance are closer in spirit to= =20 "speaking in tongues" or apocalyptic southern folk art--primitive,=20 astonishing, and mystic. Contributors: Ralph Adamo Sandy Baldwin Jake Berry Holley Blackwell Dave Brinks Joel Dailey Brett Evans Skip Fox Jessica Freeman Bob Grumman Ken Harris Honor=E9e Fanonne Jeffers Marla Jernigan Joy Lahey Bill Lavender Hank Lazer Jim Leftwich )ohn Lowther Dana Lisa Lustig Camille Martin Jerry McGuire Thomas Meyer A. di Michele Mark Prejsnar Randy Prunty Alex Rawls David Thomas Roberts Kalamu ya Salaam James Sanders Christy Scheffield Sanford Lorenzo Thomas Stephanie Williams Andy Young Seth Young Bill Lavender is Coordinator of the Low Residency MFA Program at the=20 University of New Orleans, proprietor of Lavender Ink press and author of=20 Guest Chain and Look the universe is dreaming. Hank Lazer is Professor of=20 English at The University of Alabama and author, most recently, of Days. 304 pages, 6 x 9 ISBN 0-8173-1241-2, $26.95 paper ISBN 0-8173-1240-4, $54.95 cloth SPECIAL OFFER TO POETICS LISTSERV 20% DISCOUNT WHEN YOU MENTION THAT YOU ARE ON THE POETICS LISTSERV OFFER EXPIRES 31 January 2002 To order contact Elizabeth Motherwell E-mail emother@uapress.ua.edu Phone (205) 348-7108 Fax (205) 348-9201 or mail to: The University of Alabama Press Marketing Department Box 870380 Tuscaloosa, AL 35487-0380 Attn: Elizabeth Motherwell www.uapress.ua.edu Lavender/Another South paper discounted price $21.56 ISBN 0-8173-1241-2 cloth discounted price $48.00 ISBN 0-8173-1240-4 Subtotal ________________ Illinois residents add 8.75% sales tax ________________ USA orders: add $4.50 postage for the first book and $1.00 for each additional book _________________ Canada residents add 7% sales tax _________________ International orders: add $5.50 postage for the first book and $1.00 for each additional book _________________ Enclosed as payment in full _________________ (Make checks payable to The University of Alabama Press) Bill my:=20 _________Visa _________MasterCard Account number _______________________________ Daytime phone________________________________ Expiration date ________________________________ Full name____________________________________ Signature ____________________________________ Shipping Address______________________________ City _________________________________________ State_______________________ Zip ______________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:38:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kristin Palm Subject: surrealist petition for baraka Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This is a tough one, I think. I'm very much inclined to sign the petition, but I find the accompanying letter problematic as I don't see this issue as Baraka = hero, those offended by the poem = the bad guys. I absolutely do not think he should be asked to step down from his post (and, like Barrett, find it extremely troublesome that both Baraka and Troupe have come under such fire as of late) but to paint this as simply a free speech issue is a bit troublesome as is also, I believe, to pretend this is a good poem. It's not. But you don't fire people for that. The thing is, yes, he's got obvious angry references to the holocaust, but he does also perpetuate what I've got to believe is a myth, that 4,000 (!) Israelis stayed away from the WTC on Sept. 11. Is this anti-Semitic? No, because "Semitic" is a horribly misused term which, first of all, refers to a group of languages and not a people, and, second of all, as such, would also include Palestinians and other Arab-speaking peoples most often accused of being "Anti-Semitic." Is it a dangerous myth to perpetuate? Well, it's certainly not serving anyone/anything, least (most) of all, the poem itself. To act as if the ADL is simply drawing its opposition to the poem from thin air seems pretty disingenuous. Should we also believe, then, that Trent Lott simply misspoke? kp Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 08:27:24 -0600 From: Maria Damon Subject: surrealist petition for baraka... Prefatory Note: The following statement has so far been co-signed by Ernest Allen, Derrick Bell, John Bracey, Dennis Brutus, Paul Buhle, Jayne Cortez, Susan G. Davis, Diane di Prima, Patricia Eakins, Paul Garon, Noel Ignatiev, Marie Kazalia, Robin D. G. Kelley, Don LaCoss, Harry Magdoff, Clive Matson, David Meltzer, Peter Rachleff, David Roediger, Franklin Rosemont, Penelope Rosemont, Mark Rosenzweig, Sonia Sanchez, Ron Sakolsky, Nelson Stevens, Askia Toure, among others. If YOU would like to add your signature, or know of others who would like to co-sign, please e-mail info@surrealism-usa.org POETRY MATTERS! On the Media Persecution of Amiri Baraka Poetry Festivals don?t usually trigger hate campaigns or Red Scares, but this year?s Geraldine Dodge Poetry Festival at Waterloo Village in Stanhope, New Jersey, proved to be different. There, on September 19th, Amiri Baraka read his poem "Somebody Blew Up America." The applause was thunderous, but some people apparently didn?t like it, for almost immediately the poet was singled out for an incredible barrage of vilification by Murdoch?s Fox News, the New York Times, the National Review, and scores?by now probably many hundreds?of bigoted, neoconservative, white-supremacist talk-shows and periodicals. Leading the assault on the poet is the so-called Anti-Defamation League (ADL), a powerful right-wing political organization notorious for its virulent opposition to Affirmative Action and for its routine use of character assassination against its critics. It so happens that Baraka wrote "Somebody Blew Up America" in September/October 2001, in the weeks following the tragedy known to all as "9-11." The 226-line poem was promptly posted on the Internet, copied onto many websites, and further publicized by the poet at numerous well-attended readings all over the U.S. and in many other countries. It quickly became one of the most widely circulated of his works. No attempt was made to conceal the fact that the poem was, in Baraka?s own words, "an attack on Imperialism, National Oppression, Monopoly Capitalism, Racism, Anti-Semitism," and that it was meant to "probe and disturb." Not until the Dodge Poetry Festival, however, did anyone object to it. What provoked the sudden media war on Amiri Baraka in September 2002? Assuredly it was not merely a difference of opinion regarding the art of poetry. In truth, despite the hue and cry, the poem itself is not the central issue here. In any event, the principal charge alleged against the poem (that it is "anti-Semitic") cannot withstand a moment?s critical examination. Indeed, with its salute to the memory of such revered Jewish revolutionists as Rosa Luxemburg, and the questions it raises about U.S. capitalism?s little-known complicity in the Holocaust, Baraka?s poem is explicitly against anti-Semitism and all racism. If the ADL?s hollow charge, repeated ad nauseam by the media, had even the slightest substance, how are we to account for the fact that it was completely unnoticed by the hundreds of thousands who had read or heard the poem during the preceding year? (The ADL, of course, construes any and all criticism of the Israeli government?even the merest mention of its long support of South African Apartheid, for example?as "anti-Semitic.") No less spurious is the ADL?s puerile argument that Baraka?s poem is helping to foment "anti-American xenophobia," but this charge?bristling with sinister insinuations?does bring us closer to the real issues at stake in the media "police action" against the poet. For what the ADL, neoconservatives and repentant ex-New-Leftists really hate about Baraka is that he is a sharp critic of this country?s anti-democratic institutions, and an activist who has time and again protested the U.S. government?s repressive role in foreign and domestic affairs. Worse yet, from the point of view of the white ruling class and the politicians who do its bidding, Baraka is also an outspoken revolutionary. Clearly, then, the real target of the ADL?s ongoing defamation of the author of "Somebody Blew Up America" is not that particular poem, or any other poem, but the poet himself, his revolutionary courage and audacity, and above all his ability to articulate the anxieties and yearnings of those "furthest down" in humankind?s long hard struggle against inequality and tyranny. The question, "Why did the assault on the poet start as late as September 2002?" is easily answered: Because in August, a few weeks before the Dodge Poetry Festival, Amiri Baraka became the poet laureate of the State of New Jersey. An honorary title with a small stipend, this was far from a position of power, but for the state?s corrupt "business-as-usual" Establishment, it was evidently way too much. And so Baraka?s poem?or rather, the distorted, out-of-context fragments quoted by his critics in the press and on TV?was made a pretext for racial and political persecution by that arch-enemy of all poetry, solidarity, and freedom: the white power structure. The ADL and other bigots are demanding that Baraka be removed as poet laureate. Cravenly submitting to white-supremacist pressure-groups, New Jersey Governor James E. McGreevey has formally asked the poet not only to resign as laureate, but also to apologize for his poem! Baraka has refused. In the current U.S. political climate: a climate of domination, fear, and insipid conformism; increasing government surveillance and curtailing of civil rights and liberties; persecution of immi-grants, radicals, and organized labor; massive militarization and flag-waving war hysteria, all promoted by an unelected President and a billionaire-owned media?the assault on Amiri Baraka is a matter of the greatest concern to all who care about human free-dom, the right to dream, and the right to speak out. This attack on a poet is an attack on all poets, all poetry, and all free speech. The persecution of Baraka is about stifling poetry, suppressing criticism, silencing voices of dissent. It is about censor-ship and coercion; the imposition of conformity and misery; the denial of freedom. We say: Hands Off Amiri Baraka! Long live the unfettered imagination! An injury to One is an injury to All! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 15:38:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Re: Another South (from University of Alabama Press) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021212141604.02667190@pop.bway.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Charles--The list sounds excellent. You didn't mention, though, the Scroggins-edited collection of essays on Zukofsky, Upper Limit Music. Steve On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, Charles Bernstein wrote: > Below this short note is the the announcement for the most recent volume = in > the Modern and Contemporary Poetics series that I edit with Hank Lazer. > We've been sending announcements of our series titles to the list for > several years and now have a web site that give information about each of > the books: > > http://www.uapress.ua.edu/authors/poetics3.html > > Recent books include _Telling It Slant: Avant-Gard Poetics of the 1990s_, > edited by Mark Wallace and Steven Marks; Rachel Tzvia Bok's _Led by > Language: The Poetry and Poetics of Susan Howe_; the long-awaited > paperback edition of Nathaniel Mackey's essays, _Discrepent Engagement_; = We > Who Love to Be Astonished: Experimental Women's Writing and Performance > Poetics_, edited by Laura Hinton and Cynthia Hogue; Juliana Spahr's > _Everybody's Autonomy_; essay collections by Lorenzo Thomas and Kathleen > Fraser; Loss Glazier's _Digitial Poetics_; and _Architectural Body_ by > Madeline Gins and Arakawa. Not to mention our Objectivist collection: Mar= k > Scroggins's _Louis Zukofsky and the Poetry of Knowledge_ and the > DuPlessis/Quatermain anthology of essays. > > Amidst all this, it's a pleasure to announce ANOTHER SOUTH, which is fill= ed > with vibrant language and unexpected forms by many poets whose work I am > just getting to know. The anthology is all the more interesting because o= f > its imagining of regional poetic work in terms of affiliation and > noncentric connectedness. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------- > > Another South > Experimental Writing in the South > Edited by Bill Lavender > Introduction by Hank Lazer > > "An upstart collection, and it's high time." > --C. D. Wright, author of Deepstep Come Shining > > This collection gathers the best work of flourishing but often-neglected > avant-garde southern poets, who collectively represent a new direction of > southern writing that is at once universal in its appeal and regional in > its flavor. The selected writers are working in forms that are radical, > innovative, and visionary, employing devices such as syntactical > disjunctions, formal revolutions, or playful typography. > > Focusing on poets currently residing in the South, the anthology includes > both emerging and established voices in the national and international > literary world. From the invocations of Andy Young's "Vodou Headwashing > Ceremony" to the blues-informed poems of Lorenzo Thomas and Honoree > Jeffers, from the different voicings of John Lowther and Kalamu ya Salaam > to the visual, multi-genre art of Jake Berry, David Thomas Roberts, and B= ob > Grumman, the poetry in Another South is rich in variety and enthusiastic = in > its explorations of new ways to embody place and time. These writers have > made the South lush with a poetic avant-garde all its own, not only > redefining southern identity and voice but also offering new models of wh= at > is possible universally through the medium of poetry. > Hank Lazer's introductory essay on "Kudzu textuality" contextualizes the > work by these contemporary innovators. Like the uncontrollable runaway vi= ne > that entwines the southern landscape, their poems are hyperfertile, > stretching their roots and shoots relentlessly, at once destructive and > regenerative. In making a radical departure from nostalgic southern > literary voices, these poems of polyvocal abundance are closer in spirit = to > "speaking in tongues" or apocalyptic southern folk art--primitive, > astonishing, and mystic. > > Contributors: > Ralph Adamo > Sandy Baldwin > Jake Berry > Holley Blackwell > Dave Brinks > Joel Dailey > Brett Evans > Skip Fox > Jessica Freeman > Bob Grumman > Ken Harris > Honor=E9e Fanonne Jeffers > Marla Jernigan > Joy Lahey > Bill Lavender > Hank Lazer > Jim Leftwich > )ohn Lowther > Dana Lisa Lustig > Camille Martin > Jerry McGuire > Thomas Meyer > A. di Michele > Mark Prejsnar > Randy Prunty > Alex Rawls > David Thomas Roberts > Kalamu ya Salaam > James Sanders > Christy Scheffield Sanford > Lorenzo Thomas > Stephanie Williams > Andy Young > Seth Young > > Bill Lavender is Coordinator of the Low Residency MFA Program at the > University of New Orleans, proprietor of Lavender Ink press and author of > Guest Chain and Look the universe is dreaming. Hank Lazer is Professor of > English at The University of Alabama and author, most recently, of Days. > > 304 pages, 6 x 9 > ISBN 0-8173-1241-2, $26.95 paper > ISBN 0-8173-1240-4, $54.95 cloth > > SPECIAL OFFER TO POETICS LISTSERV > 20% DISCOUNT WHEN YOU MENTION THAT YOU ARE ON THE POETICS LISTSERV > OFFER EXPIRES 31 January 2002 > To order contact Elizabeth Motherwell > E-mail emother@uapress.ua.edu > Phone (205) 348-7108 > Fax (205) 348-9201 or mail to: > The University of Alabama Press > Marketing Department > Box 870380 > Tuscaloosa, AL 35487-0380 > Attn: Elizabeth Motherwell > www.uapress.ua.edu > > Lavender/Another South > paper discounted price $21.56 ISBN 0-8173-1241-2 > cloth discounted price $48.00 ISBN 0-8173-1240-4 > Subtotal ________________ > Illinois residents add 8.75% sales tax ________________ > USA orders: add $4.50 postage for the first book and > $1.00 for each additional book _________________ > Canada residents add 7% sales tax _________________ > International orders: add $5.50 postage for the > first book and $1.00 for each additional book _________________ > Enclosed as payment in full _________________ > > (Make checks payable to The University of Alabama Press) Bill my: > _________Visa _________MasterCard > Account number _______________________________ > Daytime phone________________________________ > Expiration date ________________________________ > Full name____________________________________ > Signature ____________________________________ > Shipping Address______________________________ > City _________________________________________ > State_______________________ Zip ______________ > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 16:30:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Vernon Frazer's IMPROVISATIONS (XXV-L) is now available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Beneath the Underground Books is proud to announce the publication of = IMPROVISATIONS (XXV-L), the second volume of Vernon Frazer's continuing = high octane poetic exploration of sound, sense, consciousness and = perception that began with IMPROVISATIONS (I-XXIV). In this section of = the open-ended work, Frazer's verbal music and visual textures- literary = counterparts to free jazz and action painting- blaze through each = extended poem/chorus with a vitality and invention that approaches the = ecstatic intensity of glossolalia. "Frazer's lines sometimes arrive to us in huge chunks of = margin-to-margin text, while at other junctures, white space dominates = Improvisations and the words are nothing more than momentary islands for = the eye. On some pages, the lines form themselves into geometrical = arrangements (triangular shapes being a favorite), and on others, = graphical lines -- vertical (some vertical lines drawn right through the = text itself) and horizontal -- and brackets affect poem = progression...Improvisations often avoids overt surface meanings, = preferring instead to allow its rhythmical qualities to try and = overwhelm our senses; for if the senses can be overcome, perhaps the = mind can be pulled into another, perhaps higher, realm of meaning = altogether..."=20 Clayton Couch, Siderealilty=20 IMPROVISATIONS (XXV-L) is available through your local or through online = booksellers such as: www.amazon.com www.allbookstores.com The book can also be ordered directly from: Beneath the Underground Books 568 Brittany L Delray Beach, FL 33446 Retail price: $12.50 Shipping 2.50 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 17:23:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Thank you - Anthology of Art Archive opens (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt older http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 17:23:27 -0500 (EST) From: Alan Sondheim To: ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu Subject: Thank you - Anthology of Art Archive opens (fwd) (This has been an extremely interesting project - you might want to check it out - Alan) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 17:48:23 +0100 From: Atelier Gerz To: Alan Sondheim Subject: Thank you - Anthology of Art Archive opens Dear Alan, We are writing to thank you for helping make the Anthology of Art project such a success. The yearlong project is now completed. Thanks to your participation, it was possible to test this self-curated process which led to a plural artwork and a truly international collaboration. The complete archive of 156 image and 156 text contributions is now posted on the Anthology of Art website and, for the first time, fully Accessible All contributions will be published in a catalogue for the Anthology of Art exhibition at the Gropius-Bau in Berlin (April to August 2004). In conjunction with the exhibition, the Akademie der K=FCnste in Berlin and the Neuhardenberg Foundation (Neuhardenberg) will be organizing the =B3Manifest/Symposium=B2. In 2002/2003 the School of Fine Arts in Braunschweig, the Visual arts department at the University of Rennes, and the Art history department of the University of Budapest will host an international research-project about the Anthology of Art. We hope you enjoy referring back to the Anthology of Art archive. We will update you on future developments with the project. If you have any further questions please don=B9t hesitate to contact us at Thank you once again for your contribution. Kind regards, Jochen Gerz and the project team (Sigrid Pawelke, Heike Wetzig, Marion Hohlfeldt, Horant Fassbinder, Christoph Behm, Eku Wand, Deborah Phillips, Christiane Prei=DFler, Stephanie Davenport). Dear Alan, hope you are enjoying the outcome of the Anthology =AD thanks ag= ain for you great contribution. Best holiday greetings, Sigrid Organizer: Hochschule f=FCr Bildende K=FCnste Braunschweig/ Germany. Partners: Universit=E9 de Haute Bretagne, Rennes 2; Lettre International, Berlin; Akademie der K=FCnste, Berlin; Gropius-Bau, Berlin; Stiftung Neuhardenberg (Symposium =B3Manifest=B2 2004); Universit=E4t Karlsruhe (TU), Virtuelle Bibliothek der UB. Sponsors: Stiftung Niedersachsen, Hannover; Evens Foundation, Antwerp; =B3Kultur 2000= =B2 European Commission, Brussels; Dispositif pour la Cr=E9ation Artistique Mutim=E9dia, Paris. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 17:27:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: surrealist petition for baraka MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Kirstin, i'm glad you brought up Trent Lott. this of course raises all kinds of questions. should we defend poets for speaking their minds while flogging politicians? what do we expect from our politicians? and poets? are both protected to speak their minds equally? and really, what of the ADL? should we defend a group who speaks their mind about wanting others to not speak their mind? and what about the recent ruling on cross burning? is this relevant to the conversation? should protection of expression be selective? the language of the petition is strong, whips around, but is ultimately written to protect the voice of a poet. and this act will in turn help unify the rest of us in taking such matters of free speech seriously, if we haven't already been doing so. i know you said we shouldn't look at this as JUST a matter of free speech, but really, in the end, despite the motives, despite the message, despite the emotions, it comes down to wanting to punish a poet for writing a poem. whether Baraka's poem is good or not is irrelevant, by the way, don't you think? who cares about the craft of the poem, should it be allowed is the question. there's plenty of poetry out there, and i'm sure nobody has ever liked it all. CAConrad ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:34:46 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: surrealist petition for baraka MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think that what you say is good here: it IS a worry that Baraka etc are targeted. Now I think that since S11 thiings have got very confused and I admit at times I've lost my head on this with my post that upset Nick Piombino and do on...now I had to explain that I meant really " I'm very angry (because SAD at the killing etc by both sides in Israel/Palestine) about things as they are noot improving and people are dying daily.....so I said (more or less) HENCE Israel should be obliterated ...BUT the implication is IF they continue on their present course..." now I have also tried to suggest (previously) that a negotiated settlement (but any and all of my "normal" suggestions were totaly ignored it wasnt till I said that they SHOULD BE OBLITERATED that I got a response!! Hence: ergo propter hoc or whatever the phrase is!) by a truly representative united nations (NOT one dominated by any countries or country) which would put troops (in serious numbers) into Israel/Paelstine and set up a complete buffer. Then the place could be either made into a secular democratic state with Palestinians and Jews (should one always use capitals with Palestinian and Jew?...langauage again...) having equality...OR two separate States could be formed). This of course is also fraught but I think that like the Yugoslav conflict this one is too terrible..has gone on too long. But the S11 situation has been linked to all these issues .... now there are people in the Arab nations who are very racist toward Jewish people and I was "talking" to someone in Egypt (in the Internet Chess Club) and siding with an Israeli beacuase he was quoting "The Protocols of Zion" now both I and the Israeli knew that those were fabricated racist nonsense. The Nazis used them to justify an attempt to exterminate and bully etc the Jewish people. Now Baraka is different in degree at least ( I dont think he's a racist the way that the Nazis were...I think he is impassioned: although of course it might all be piss in wind...I dont know the man....I havent really studied the/his "Who bombed..." poem ...I dont like that kind of poetry much: but like Ginsberg's Howl it might acheive something (did Howl or America or Kaddish acheive anything?): unfortunatetly even if it might be true that some Israelis were warned by their secret service, its fuel to the fire of the anti-semites (which as you say is a dubious term: I dont see the Jews as a race they are just people who unite and any unity comes from a shared cultural/historical/religious situation (and they are a very diverse peoples...and so for example are the Arabic people: as are all peoples everywhere..)). I dont think Baraka should be sacked but certainly some of the right wing (certain kinds of white supremacists etc I mean) will have seized on what he says: so he would have been wiser to have kept the Israel issue separate (although at a more sophisticated level we know they are linked or could be in some way/ways) but apart from that what is done is done and his explanation of his poem is by and large makes sense. It almost seems that for the US or the "Right" US or the apathetic to notice anything imprtant you have to do or say something crazy...however: negotiation wherever possible is best.....and Baraka maybe was unwise on the 4000 issue. Again I think we as a "group" should ask him to talk on here and we can then ask him his view and discuss matters and or vent our spleen: that is healthy. Another point: angry confrontation is not always unhealthy (it may be frequently unproductive in MOST cases but its part of life): it shows that the person/people who are angry does/do care...now anger is maybe destructive but, as I say it does usually indicate a concern. So we have angry people who are of Jewish (religion culture background etc and angry poets and angry (or passionate may be a better term as angry as Nick piombino says can become bullying: and it can, THT was a valid point Nick made...) left winger and people of arabic or muslemic persuasion...whatever .. so a discussion with Left and the Right (which I know sometimes these can be almost totally interchanged) and Baraka etc on this might be crazy but we are in cyber space so the sticks and stones wouldnt get us and something might be learnt from both "sides"...maybe not. ? Another thing lurking behind all this on a slightly errant track, is the question of "language" if: all this should interest those of us who are intersted in the writings of the Langpos etc (and I mean eg Bernstein Silliman Heijinian HoweAndrews Watten Bromige Nick and many others of the L=A=N=G (who thought that up that L= etc??!) "school" as we are seeing "language in action" here in this devate and in various poems including Alan Sondheim's etc and rhetoric is battling the more gritty "intellectual" stuff and irony clashes with lyricism and our words do or dont (which?) start to matter and the problems of communication...the paroles and langues...the various post modern philosophies of language are seen here sparking away like the deflector shield on the language cultural human craft of Spocks and Kirks hurtkllling (creative mistake - copywrite!) toward only hell knows where....but hopefully there is hope. Richard PS I wont sign (even if I can - I did sign another petition, maybe that was organised by teh CIA!!)) it because I think that some men in dark suits will turn up one day soon (even here in NZ!!) (sooner than I think maybe!!) or I'll be shafted somewhow so for now I plead paranoia and cowardice - better part of valour - and also dodge away as I'm not an American in these global times!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kristin Palm" To: Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 6:38 AM Subject: surrealist petition for baraka > This is a tough one, I think. I'm very much inclined to sign the petition, > but I find the accompanying letter problematic as I don't see this issue as > Baraka = hero, those offended by the poem = the bad guys. I absolutely do > not think he should be asked to step down from his post (and, like Barrett, > find it extremely troublesome that both Baraka and Troupe have come under > such fire as of late) but to paint this as simply a free speech issue is a > bit troublesome as is also, I believe, to pretend this is a good poem. It's > not. But you don't fire people for that. The thing is, yes, he's got obvious > angry references to the holocaust, but he does also perpetuate what I've got > to believe is a myth, that 4,000 (!) Israelis stayed away from the WTC on > Sept. 11. Is this anti-Semitic? No, because "Semitic" is a horribly misused > term which, first of all, refers to a group of languages and not a people, > and, second of all, as such, would also include Palestinians and other > Arab-speaking peoples most often accused of being "Anti-Semitic." Is it a > dangerous myth to perpetuate? Well, it's certainly not serving > anyone/anything, least (most) of all, the poem itself. To act as if the ADL > is simply drawing its opposition to the poem from thin air seems pretty > disingenuous. Should we also believe, then, that Trent Lott simply misspoke? > > kp > > > > Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 08:27:24 -0600 > From: Maria Damon > Subject: surrealist petition for baraka... > > Prefatory Note: The following statement has so far been co-signed by Ernest > Allen, Derrick Bell, John Bracey, Dennis Brutus, Paul Buhle, Jayne Cortez, > Susan G. Davis, Diane di Prima, Patricia Eakins, Paul Garon, Noel Ignatiev, > Marie Kazalia, Robin D. G. Kelley, Don LaCoss, Harry Magdoff, Clive Matson, > David Meltzer, Peter Rachleff, David Roediger, Franklin Rosemont, Penelope > Rosemont, Mark Rosenzweig, Sonia Sanchez, Ron Sakolsky, Nelson Stevens, > Askia Toure, among others. > > If YOU would like to add your signature, or know of others who would > like to co-sign, please e-mail info@surrealism-usa.org > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 18:08:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: NO MORE WAR MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII NO MORE WAR We want to be good citizens. We want to make an anti-war piece. We want to be effectual. We are frightened of this war and of this country. We are frightened by the madman at the top. We write NO MORE WAR at the beginning of the piece. We write it loud and clear. No one can mistake our message. We owe everything to Godard. We begin the piece. We will show horrors of war. We will show wounded and dying soldiers. We will show parts of bodies and we will speak with the mothers and fathers, sons and daughters, of soldiers. We will show the nightmare of wounded cities. We will show bombed-out hospitals and schools. We will show dolls and stuffed animals and dead children in the ruins. This is not enough. We will show Auschwitz. We will not show Auschwitz; Auschwitz is a call to war. We will show nuclear explosions and napalm. We will show dying animals. We will write THIS IS THE EFFECT OF WAR. This is not enough. We show more mutilated bodies. We show more dead soldiers, dead men, dead women, dead children. We write THIS IS ALSO THE EFFECT OF WAR. We show the rites and mourning of survivors. We show starving families and empty landscapes and destroyed villages. We write AND THIS. We write AND THIS AND THIS. This is not enough. Nothing is enough. We will make our piece and we will show it. It is never enough. We write IT IS NEVER ENOUGH. SUICIDE SQUAD We are patriot suicide squad. TERROR COUNT ah:0 am:0 an:0 ap:1 ba:0 bb:0 cc:0 dd:0 ee:0 ff:0 gg:0 hh:1 ii:0 jj:0 jk:0 jl:0 jm:0 jn:1 jo:0 jp:2 jq:0 jr:0 js:0 jt:0 ju:0 jv:1 jw:0 jx:0 jy:0 ka:1 kb:0 kc:0 kd:0 ke:0 kf:0 kg:0 kh:0 ki:0 kj:0 kk:0 kl:1 km:1 kn:0 ko:1 kp:0 kq:1 kr:0 ks:1 kt:3 ku:0 kv:0 kw:1 kx:0 ky:2 kz:0 la:0 lb:0 lc:0 ld:0 le:2 lf:0 lg:0 lh:3 li:1 lj:2 lk:0 ll:0 lm:0 ln:1 lo:0 lp:0 lq:1 lr:1 ls:1 lt:0 lu:1 lv:0 lw:0 lx:1 ly:0 lz:2 ma:1 mb:1 mc:65 md:6 me:21 mf:14 mg:12 mh:4 mi:3 mj:11 mk:0 ml:3 mm:7 mn:1 mo:8 mp:2 mq:4 mr:9 ms:0 WAR COUNT ah:39 am:24 an:17 ap:33 ba:21 bb:23 cc:12 dd:24 ee:27 ff:44 gg:19 hh:29 ii:18 jj:18 jk:22 jl:27 jm:21 jn:18 jo:34 jp:22 jq:17 jr:18 js:29 jt:28 ju:18 jv:29 jw:27 jx:41 jy:24 ka:35 kb:12 kc:38 kd:18 ke:33 kf:29 kg:26 kh:25 ki:16 kj:27 kk:32 kl:36 km:22 kn:28 ko:18 kp:20 kq:27 kr:35 ks:43 kt:37 ku:31 kv:12 kw:35 kx:15 ky:27 kz:28 la:26 lb:23 lc:25 ld:34 le:13 lf:15 lg:29 lh:27 li:29 lj:36 lk:29 ll:33 lm:39 ln:33 lo:25 lp:25 lq:32 lr:36 ls:11 lt:21 lu:27 lv:8 lw:32 lx:30 ly:14 lz:10 ma:53 mb:22 mc:38 md:12 me:32 mf:55 mg:74 mh:20 mi:36 mj:47 mk:34 ml:58 mm:32 mn:41 mo:31 mp:76 mq:27 mr:29 ms:0 SUICIDE SQUAD We protest. We write WE STAND IN THE MIDST OF THE FLAMES. We write WE ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE HOLOCAUST AND THE HOLOCAUST. We write IT IS NEVER ENOUGH. === ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 15:30:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cheryl doppler burket Subject: Re: shopping for the kids at x-mas... In-Reply-To: <000d01c2a211$52a1bbb0$0100a8c0@vaio> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii www.talkingPresident.com --- Duration Press wrote: > i guess kids need to know that the rules of combat > include bombing civilian > homes & using them as outposts... > > http://www3.jcpenney.com/jcp/Products.asp?GrpTyp=PRD&ItemID=05b5baa&RefPage= > Products > > all that's missing are the bodies of the family who > once lived there... __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 23:31:17 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ryan fitzpatrick Subject: call for submissions - filling Station Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed SUBMIT AND BE MERRY! ‘Tis the season for giving! filling Station magazine is currently looking for submissions of poetry, fiction, reviews, interviews, essays, etc. for upcoming issues. We are looking for writing that defies conventions and opens minds. All styles and forms of writing will be considered. Poetry: Recent contributors include Robert Kroetsch, Ron Silliman, Sheila Murphy, Susan Holbrook, and Rajinderpal S. Pal, among many others. We are looking for poetry that is exciting and innovative, any style. poetry@fillingstation.ca Fiction: We are looking for fiction of cognitive and emotional depth, fiction that will engage, deepen or augment a reader’s sensibility, and fiction that remembers that “the human heart is in conflict with itself”. Under 3000 words please. fiction@fillingstation.ca Reviews: We are looking for short reviews (roughly 500-1000 words) of current literary titles. Because we are a Canadian publication, we really like reviews of Canadian books, but we will not turn away good reviews of books from other places. Small press reviews especially make us smile. editor@fillingstation.ca Interviews/Essays/Etc.: Anything dealing with current hot authors or topics. Please nothing overly academic (but nothing overly general). editor@fillingstation.ca Any general queries can be directed to editor@fillingstation.ca Snail mail also works for submissions of all kinds. Please include a short bio and an s.a.s.e (if you want your work back) filling Station P.O. Box 22135 Bankers Hall, Calgary, AB. CANADA T2P 4J5 DEADLINE: January 30, 2003 _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 15:41:27 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Subject: Re: surrealist petition for baraka In-Reply-To: <6E58C412.06531194.01F36A84@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey i happen to think it's a pretty powerful poem (tho 'rant' is more like what it is) -- have you heard it read aloud? we read the poem out loud in a workshop -- in fact there are several jewish women in the workshop, and it fell to one of them to read the 'offensive' part. the whole thing's offensive, man! it's meant to be! all of those "Who, who, who"s like fingers pointing at you, and you, and you (and me). you can't sit in a room and read the poem out loud with a group of people and not be uncomfortable, shaken up. but it became apparent as we read it that it wasn't meant as merely an "anti-semite" or anti-jewish spiel -- it's anti-everything! it may or may not have been a bad judgment call to put in the part about the 4000 israelis skipping work but you've got to realize that this whole poem is a catalogue of injustices -- real or perceived -- rumors, etc. it's not the poet's job to be factually true, but to report the truth of what's in the ether, what people are talking about on the street. and you can say that it was very effective in terms of stirring things up and making people uncomfortable, which is what it was meant to do. if you get into applying notions of 'craft' to it -- well, what and whose notions of 'craft'? it's got tons of craft in terms of being a performance piece. the OTHER question -- "should we defend poets for speaking their minds while flogging politicians?" -- a politician is ostensibly supposed to be representing a "polis," and if what he sez reveals the confines of that polis to be a select few (in this case, white), then yes, he deserves to be flogged. at least it's not roman times when they might literally cut off his hands and hang them from the rostrum! all that's going to happen is that he might lose his precious post as maj. leader. as far as i can tell, no one is questioning lott's right to say what he said. no one is threatening to strip him of his senatorship, or take away his salary, no one is calling in death threats. he made a politically stupid move. being a politician, there are consequences. amiri, being a poet, has a duty to speak his mind, and the right to do so without being censured. if lott really believed in what he said, he could always quit the repub. party and run on his own 1948-era segregationist ticket, and THEN we could talk about free speech. -- David Hadbawnik -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Craig Allen Conrad Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 2:28 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: surrealist petition for baraka Kirstin, i'm glad you brought up Trent Lott. this of course raises all kinds of questions. should we defend poets for speaking their minds while flogging politicians? what do we expect from our politicians? and poets? are both protected to speak their minds equally? and really, what of the ADL? should we defend a group who speaks their mind about wanting others to not speak their mind? and what about the recent ruling on cross burning? is this relevant to the conversation? should protection of expression be selective? the language of the petition is strong, whips around, but is ultimately written to protect the voice of a poet. and this act will in turn help unify the rest of us in taking such matters of free speech seriously, if we haven't already been doing so. i know you said we shouldn't look at this as JUST a matter of free speech, but really, in the end, despite the motives, despite the message, despite the emotions, it comes down to wanting to punish a poet for writing a poem. whether Baraka's poem is good or not is irrelevant, by the way, don't you think? who cares about the craft of the poem, should it be allowed is the question. there's plenty of poetry out there, and i'm sure nobody has ever liked it all. CAConrad ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 16:48:15 -0800 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Re: KSW Men's Choir Sings Seasonal Favourites (Vancouver) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh you gotta pressure Clint Burnham too! Aaron Vidaver wrote: > >Kootenay School of Writing > >Reading/Book Sale/Party > >Friday December 13 th 8 pm KSW time > >201-505 Hamilton Street Vancouver BC > > The all-male auxilary to the KSW Collective Choir, members Ted Byrne, Roger > Farr, Aaron Vidaver, Michael Barnholden, Andrew Klobucar, Peter Conlin, Greg > Placonouris and perhaps others will grace the hall with merry seasonal > dalliances, accompanied and otherwise. If we can exert enough subtle pressure, > Kirsten Forkert, Margot Leigh Butler and Dorothy Trujillo Lusk from the full > KSW Collective Choir may sing compelling solos from primarily festive works. > Or not. Expect holiday hijinks. > > Books and/or the fetish objects formerly known as books including recent > donations from a well known, recently downsized, local poet will be for sale, > rent or lease. Bring cash and haggle. One stop shopping, for all your holiday > gift purchases to fit every budget. > > Liquid refreshments will be served at modest prices. > > Bring finger foods to share with friends and companeros. > > See you there. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 20:01:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Re: surrealist petition for baraka... In-Reply-To: <1AE4F72F.28235624.0080AC7C@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I agree that we live in a racist society where people of color are often discriminated against. That's a reality that has to be acknowledged and dealt with. But at the same time, I don't think the dichotomous language (and thinking) of the petition is particularly helpful. The dichotomy itself is a structural element contributing to racist thinking and action. When I used to teach James Weldon Johnson's Autobiography of an Ex-Colored Man, I would put the following on the board: white woman .... black child black woman X white child And say, ok, a white woman can have a black child, but a black woman cannot have a white child. Is this a biological fact or a social fact? Of course, it's a social fact and it's predicated on a holdover of the "one drop" rule that has defined race relations in this country. If you have "one drop" of black blood then you're black. One could just as easily make the opposite claim: if you have "one drop" of white blood then you're white. That didn't happen, of course, because "white" was the norm (won't be for much longer) and the privileged position. The admixture of color was seen as contamination. But to reverse the value system, giving the label "bad" or even "evil" to all things white (or giving the name white to all things evil) doesn't get you out of the dichotomy, or the problems that come with it. To do that, both "sides" would have to face up to their relatedness. Steve On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, Frank Sherlock wrote: > Steven- > > Your clever questions deserve simple answers. > > Are Colin Powell & Condoleeza Rice "really" black? > Yes. They really are. > > Are they members of the "white power structure"? > Yes. They really are. > > Frank Sherlock > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 17:08:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: can you smell that backwards In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable can you smell that backwards I knock at the door, no I ring the bell, no I call every time its the same thing hello you have three seconds to live or please leave a message at the beep or there=92s no one here by your name no that's not it lets see it starts with a bang on the head I forget the pass word use my last dine for a local call that costs quarter I talk long enough to say . . . then the crush happens everyone I pass on the street whispers come to our party sprinkled with discount holiday sugar the dead say something like hello is this the right number for spare=20 change can you spare a a moment of quiet can we just get along I heard that somewhere always wondered if it was staged like the mass invitation of thoughts=20 into my brain it always happens around this time when I think we are eye-to-eye I turn around and they have entered the forbidden zone the usual rattle sound rattles around someone speaks a sort of rubbery french body fluids are exchanged more mumbling the fabric tears someone is stationed around the world I say =93=EAtes vous pr=EAt encore=94 a door opens hands extend candles lit I pull a cat out of a box or a hat or its the wrong address ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 22:43:08 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: American Benignity MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT a lament? American Benignity Arose By Another name. Came down That Old chimney, rose As rage At... And apple pie, Aroused In Splendid. Rose-tin- Ted Bespectacles Crabbed lines choke out life out but we stretch out for rose clouds of sweet vapors splintered, then waft ov- er the fence crimsons and pinks infuse life petals in long sweet harmonious billows childhood smells of muted blues. Is Pete In today Or out hustled, Rose be Knighted Told by doctors to patients in confidence easing our mind/their pain/our pain, rose Benign Re Signation, rose. tom bell &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&cetera: Poetry at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/publicat.html Gallery - Metaphor/Metonym for Health at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Health articles at http://psychology.healingwell.com/ Reviews at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/reviews.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 22:36:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: LMJ Subject: new XCP streetnotes Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Xcp: Cross Cultural Poetics is pleased to announce the publication of... > > STREETNOTES Winter 2003 > http://www.xcp.bfn.org > > STREETNOTES is a biannual electronic journal of essays, poetry, > interviews, photography and other documentation dedicated to the culture > of traffic, routes and the dynamics of the street. STREETNOTES has been > publishing regularly since 1998 and all issues have been archived on the > site. > > This issue features work by Naomi Long, Louis Armand, Britta Wheeler, > James Dickinson, Camille Martin, R. Richard Wojewodzki, Allison Hedge > Coke, Jonathan W. Senchyne, Roselle, Pineda, Jess Azner, Mideo Cruz, > T.W. Ransom, Christopher Luna, Mary Rizzo, Frank Mort Jr., and David Farber. > > --- > While you're visiting, be sure to check out the contents of the new > _Xcp_ 11 Writing (home) > --- > Information on contributing to the forthcoming Summer 2003 Issue of Xcp: > Streetnotes is available at > http://www.xcp.bfn.org/call4work.html > ______________________________ > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 23:16:58 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magazinnik Subject: Re: discontinuous extroversion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hahaha! - that's funny - I'll probably distribute it in the office! Mike In a message dated 12/12/2002 10:25:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, Austinwja@AOL.COM writes: > > Schizophrenia --- Do You Hear What I Hear? > > > Multiple Personality Disorder --- We Three Queens Disoriented Are > > > Dementia --- I Think I'll be Home for Christmas > > > Narcissistic --- Hark the Herald Angels Sing About Me > > > Manic --- Deck the Halls and Walls and House and Lawn and Streets and > > Stores and Office and Town and Cars and Busses and Trucks and trees > > and Fire Hydrants and...... > > > Paranoid --- Santa Claus is Coming to Get me > > > Borderline Personality Disorder --- Thoughts of Roasting on an Open > > Fire > > > Personality Disorder --- You Better Watch Out, I'm Gonna Cry, I'm > > Gonna Pout, Maybe I'll tell You Why > > > > Obsessive Compulsive Disorder ---Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle > > Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle > Bells, > > Jingle Bells >> > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 23:25:37 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM Subject: New @ Bridge Street: Benjamin, Brathwaite, Nguyen, Niedecker, Prevallet, Burning Deck Anthology, &&& MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for your support. Ordering and discount information at the end of this post. THE ESSENTIAL ACKER, selected writings, Kathy Acker, Grove, 335 pgs, $15. RIP-OFF RED, GIRL DETECTIVE and THE BURNING BOMBING OF AMERICA, Kathy Acker, Grove, 201 pgs, $14. GEORGES BATAILLE: AN INTELLECTUAL BIOGRAPHY, Michel Surya, 588 pgs cloth, $35. SELECTED WRITINGS VOLUME 3, 1935-1938, Walter Benjamin, Harvard, 462 pgs cloth, $39.95. Includes "Paris, Capital of the Nineteenth Century," "Problems in the Sociology of Language: An Overview," "The Significance of Beautiful Semblance," "Theory of Distraction," "The Knowledge That the First Material on Which the Mimetic Faculty Tested Itself," "Berlin Chilhood around 1900," &&&. AS IN T AS IN TETHER, David Bromige, Chax, 74 pgs, $14. "Hand me that thorazine / I want to read something" WORDS NEED LOVE TOO, Kamau Brathwaite, House of Neheshi Publishers, 70 pgs, $15. THE NO-NONSENSE GUIDE TO THE ARMS TRADE, Gideon Burrows, Verso, 141 pgs, $10. CHAIN 9: DIALOGUE, ed Osman, Spahr, Vicuna, and Field, 346 pgs, $12. Amato, Andrews & Apio, Bles, Devaney & Tores, DuPlessis, Durgin & Hofer, Dworkin & Santos, Gizzi & Willis, Havelda & Nunes, Jarnot, La Farge, McMorris, Moestrup, Navarette, Perelman & Shaw, Philbrick, Piombino & Watten, Redbird, Wellman, Zograf, &&&. THE NEW WAR ON TERRORISM: FACT & FICTION, Noam Chomsky, audio CD, $14.98. COLLATERAL LANGUAGE: A USER'S GUIDE TO AMERICA'S NEW WAR, ed John Collins & Ross Glover, 230 pgs, NYU Press, $16.95. Contents: Anthrax, Blowback, Civilization versus Barbarism, Cowardice, Evil, Freedom, Fundamentalism, Jihad, Justice, Targets, Terrorism, Unity, Vital Interests, & The War on ____. GUY DEBORD AND THE SITUATIONIST INTERNATIONAL, ed Tom McDonough, October/MIT, 492 pgs cloth, $44.95. AFTER SCHOOL SESSION, Brett Evans, Buck Downs Books/Subpress, 74 pgs, $14.95. "Lofty waft o' baboon cries / o'er fruity hued tankers / icing isinglass river" THE SEASONS, Merrill Gilfillan, Adventures in Poetry, 123 pgs, $12.50. "Send me good wood. Let me make you my heart." GIVEN, Arielle Greenberg, Verse, 84 pgs, $12. MINIATURES AND OTHER POEMS, Barbara Guest, Wesleyan, 45 pgs, $12.95. "How far are you going in the culture program?" FLUXUS EXPERIENCE, Hannah Higgins, U CAL, 260 pgs, $29.95. SPOOR, Jeff Hull, Subpress, 73 pgs, $11. "Writing that de-ideates the trope of hope, the preserve of the doomed." THE EFFACEMENTS, Chris McCreary / A DOCTRINE OF SIGNATURES, Jenn McCreary, Singing Horse, 109 pgs, $12.50. "temperament drift of the body etheric" THE DAMAGE: NEW AND SELECTED POEMS, Drew Milne, Salt, 117 pgs, $14.95. TEMPORARY TATTOOS, Carol Mirakove, BabySelf Press, $5. "outside there is a piledriver. inside too." BAYART, Pascale Monnier, trans Cole Swensen, Black Square, 72 pgs, $15. "Who cares if it's a cigarette tree" YOUR ANCIENT SEE THROUGH, Hoa Nguyen, 111 pgs, $12. "The globe cracks and depends on you" NEW GOOSE, Lorine Niedecker, Rumor Books, 98 pgs, $10. This book collects the 86 poems from Niedecker's Mother Goose-influenced period-- 1935 to 1945. "I think of a tree / to make it / last." SCRATCH SIDES: POETRY, DOCUMENTATION and IMAGE-TEXT PROJECTS, Kristin Prevallet, Skanky Possom, 73 pgs, $10. "Sportstalk never fails to put me to sleep." ISRAEL / PALESTINE: HOW TO END THE WAR OF 1948, Tanya Reinhart, Seven Stories Press, 278 pgs, $11.95. GET YOUR WAR ON, David Rees, Soft Skull, $11. Can be viewed on this site: http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/war.html ". . . But I Could Not Speak . . .", Jono Schneider, O Books, 110 pgs, $12. SOUND / (system), Stephen Ratcliffe, Green Integer, 254 pgs, $12.95 SHARK 4: The Encyclopedic, ed Lytle Shaw & Emilie Clark, 263 pgs, $10. Blachly, Brossard, Buckingham, Chan, Clark, Downing, Fitterman, Green, Ji, Katchadourian, King, Lin, Linnaeus, Lu, Mayer, McCarney, Mlinko, Morris, Nexo, Novalis, Olsen, Oppenheim, Pliny the Elder, Scharf, Schnell, Schultz, Schumann, Spahr, Stefans, & Yepez. THE DIK-DIK'S SOLITUDE: NEW AND SELECTED WORKS, Anne Tardos, Granary, 317 pgs, $17.95. "Never give a sweet william any bad news." APHORISMS, Cesar Vallejo, Green Integer, 83 pgs, $9.95. VAN GOGH'S EAR, ed Ian Ayres, 203 pgs, $15. Anderson, Andrews, Antler, Baraka, Berkson, Berrigan, Burger, Clark, Creeley, di Prima, Dorn, Downs, Ferlinghetti, Ginsberg, Hacker, Hollo, Hoover, S Howe, Jarnot, Lehman, Lorber, McClure, Myles, Noteboom, Notley, Oates, O'Hara, Oliver, Pettet, Scalapino, Schultz, Sikelianos, Smith, Torres, Waldman, Whalen, Wieners, &&&. INSTAN, Cecilia Vicuna, Kelsey St, $15. ONE MORE SCORE: THE SECOND TWENTY YEARS OF BURNING DECK 1982-2002, ed Keith & Rosmarie Waldrop, Burning Deck, 240 pgs, $15. Yau, Barnett, Ragosta, Wiebe, Ahern, Bersenbrugge, Condee, Coover, M Gizzi, Middleton, Snodgrass, Williams, Armantrout, Davidson, Hawkes, Johnson, Mac Low, Silliman, Einzig, Gurnis, E Robinson, Creeley, Chester, McLaughlin, Watson, Darragh, Mathews, Osman, Abish, Gander, Kalendek, Mandel, Nelson, Rodefer, Welish, Daivie, McKiernan, Bergland, Rehm, Needell, Portugal, Grandmont, Fourcade, Hovald, Swensen, Auster, Jarnot, P Gizzi, Ngai, Hocquard, &&&. THE HOUSE SEEN FROM NOWHERE, Keith Waldrop, Litmus, 230 pgs, $15. "You are a catch in my breath." Some Bestsellers: COLLECTED WORKS, Lorine Niedecker, ed Jenny Penberthy, U Cal, 471 pgs, cloth, $45.00. THE WORLD IN ITS TIME AND SPACE: TOWARDS A HISTORY OF INNOVATIVE POETRY IN OUR TIME, edited by Edward Foster & Joseph Donahue, Talisman House, 740 pgs, $25.95. TELLING IT SLANT: AVANT-GARDE POETICS OF THE NINETIES, ed. Mark Wallace and Steven Marks, U Alabama, 446 pgs, $29.95. SLOWLY, Lyn Hejinian, Tuumba, 43 pgs, $10. THE CRAVE, Kit Robinson, Atelos, 120 pgs, $12.95. CHINESE WHISPERS, John Ashbery, FSG, 100 pgs cloth, $22. THIS COMPOST: ECOLOGICAL IMPERATIVES IN AMERICAN POETRY, Jed Rasula, U Georgia, 257 pgs cloth, $39.95. NEW COLLECTED POEMS, George Oppen, ed Michael Davidson, Preface by Eliot Weinberger, New Directions, cloth 433 pgs, $37.95. C.C., Tyrone Williams, Krupskaya, 95 pgs, $11. SUGAR PILL, Drew Gardner, Krupskaya, $11. ANTHEM, Jean Donnelly, Sun & Moon, 124 pgs, $11.95. CULTURE, Daniel Davidson, Krupkaya, $11. 'PATAPHYSICS: THE POETICS OF AN IMAGINARY SCIENCE, Christian Bok, Northwestern, 133 pgs, $22.95. ECONOMICS, Stories by Fannie Howe, Flood Editions, $14. METROPOLIS 16-29, Robert Fitterman, Coach House, 124 pgs, $16.95. MINIATURES, Barbara Guest, Wesleyan, 45 pgs, $12.95. A CONVERSATION WITH DAVID ANTIN, David Antin & Charles Bernstein, Granary, $12.95. THE MOOD EMBOSSER, Louis Cabri, Coach House, 139 pgs, $16.95. ON THE SLATES, Clark Coolidge, toucher disguises, letterpress unpaginated, $12. FIN AMOR, Peter Gizzi, toucher disguises, unpaginated letterpress, $12. SLIDE RULE, Jen Hofer, subpress, 90 pgs, $10. THE EUROPE OF TRUSTS, Susan Howe, New Directions, 218 pgs, $16.95. WINTER SEX, Katy Lederer, Verse Press, 59 pgs, $12. READINGS IN RUSSIAN POETICS: FORMALIST & STRUCTURALIST VIEWS, ed Ladislav Matejka and Krystyna Pomorska, intro Gerald L. Bruns, Dalkey Archive, $17.95. BK OF (H)RS, Pattie McCarthy, Apogee Press, 59 pgs, $12.95. THE DISPARITIES, Rodrigo Toscano, Green Integer, 100 pgs, $9.95. RICHARD TUTTLE, IN PARTS, 1998-2001, texts by Charles Bernstein and Ingrid Schafner, Institute of Contemporary Art, University of Pennsylvania, $25. MY LIFE, Lyn Hejinian, Green Integer, 165 pgs, $10.95. DOVECOTE, Heather Fuller, Edge, 90 pgs, $10. CONSIDERATIONS ON THE ASSASINATION OF GERARD LEBOVICI, Guy Debord, 81 pgs, TamTam, $15.00. WITH STRINGS, Charles Bernstein, U Chicago, $12. THE GOOD HOUSE, Rod Smith, Spectacular, $6. CECI N'EST PAS KEITH CECI N'EST PAS ROSMARIE, Keith & Rosmarie Waldrop, Burning Deck, 93 pgs, $10.00. IN THE AMERICAN TREE, edited with a new Afterword by Ron Silliman, Natl Poetry Foundation, 611 pgs, $24.95. A BORDER COMEDY, Lyn Hejinian, $15.95. GEORGE OPPEN: A RADICAL PRACTICE, O Books, Susan Thackrey, $12. ACE, Tom Raworth, Edge, $10. List members receive free shipping on orders of more than $20. Free shipping + 10% discount on orders of more than $30. There are two ways to order: 1. E-mail your order to aerialedge@aol.com with your address & we will bill you with the books. or 2. via credit card-- you may call us at 202 965 5200 or e-mail aerialedge@aol.com w/ yr add, order, card #, & expiration date & we will send a receipt with the books. Pease remember to include expiration date. We must charge shipping for orders out of the US. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 00:44:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: WAR MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ww personal_repl-1.1 english 0 grey gray contruction construction depressons depressions antennae antennas personal_ws-1.1 english 30 Gertrud defuge mobius zags yiddish philosopies internetwork towards Godard coherencies phenomenology incoherencies aristotelian variometers aba superimpositions avi evanescence hebrew i'm i'd zig i've interstitial ecosphere deconstruct immersive unsleeping ing exfoliations === ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 00:45:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: LITTLE NO MORE WAR MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII LITTLE NO MORE WAR We to want make an be anti-war good piece. citizens. effectual. war are of frightened this country. and by the madman at top. write beginning it loud clear. mistake No our one message. can owe everything Godard. begin will show wounded horrors war. dying soldiers. bodies parts speak we with mothers fathers, sons daughters, nightmare cities. bombed-out hospitals schools. dolls dead stuffed in animals children ruins. This is not Auschwitz. enough. Auschwitz; Auschwitz a call nuclear explosions napalm. animals. IS THIS WAR. THE EFFECT OF more mutilated bodies. soldiers, men, women, children. ALSO rites mourning survivors. starving families empty landscapes destroyed villages. AND THIS. Nothing piece it. It never IT NEVER ENOUGH. SUICIDE SQUAD patriot suicide squad. protest. WE STAND IN MIDST FLAMES. ARE CHILDREN HOLOCAUST HOLOCAUST. === === ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 22:16:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: p's at spd In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit / a day in the life of p./ by kari edwards From: Subpress Collective /ISBN # 1-930068-18-2 is finally available at: Small Press Distribution http://www.spdbooks.org/ peace kari ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 22:25:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: FYI: Jan. 18 -Anti-War Washington & SF Scenarios In-Reply-To: <2DAD6395.1AE52192.00811243@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT MASS MARCH ON JANUARY 18 TO DEMAND NO WAR AGAINST IRAQ -- ELIMINATE U.S. WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION Please read the following email for important updates about the scenario for the January 18 National Marches in Washington DC and San Francisco to say "No War on Iraq" and for an alert on Bush's moves toward first strike nuclear war. ********** The world is being menaced by Weapons of Mass Destruction by a government that is openly threatening and planning to use nuclear weapons in preemptive wars of aggression against others, including non-nuclear countries. While all eyes are focused on the purported threat coming from Iraq, the Bush Administration has sharply reorganized U.S. military doctrine and strategy as it prepares to actually use Weapons of Mass Destruction in coming conflicts as a matter of declared policy. It is for this reason that on January 18, people across the United States will demand the immediate elimination of US weapons of mass destruction and a people's inspection team will call for unfettered access and a full declaration of U.S. non-conventional weapons systems. Bush seeks to have world attention focused on the disarmament of Iraq as the preeminent threat to world peace, while the real threat of nuclear war and the use of Weapons of Mass Destruction arises within the U.S. Administration. This is the politics of diversion and should give pause to those who are thinking of joining in Bush's sleight-of-hand anti-Iraq chorus believing it to be a path to peace. The nuclear threat posed by the United States is neither rhetoric nor speculation, it is the now announced doctrine and strategy of the Bush White House. It represents the ushering in of a new era of unrestrained and unprovoked catastrophic violence. "Preemptive Strikes are Part of US Strategic Doctrine," reads the headline of the front page of the Washington Post of December 11, 2002. A classified version of the new Bush Doctrine "breaks with the fifty years of counter-proliferation efforts" by planning for the use of nuclear weapons against countries that not only have not attacked the US but that do not themselves possess nuclear capability. A.N.S.W.E.R. believes that all Weapons of Mass Destruction should be banished from the planet. But this is impossible until the biggest arsenal of Weapons of Mass Destruction -- the one at the disposal of trigger-happy George W. Bush and Co. is eliminated. Any other call for disarmament will not be viewed as legitimate by the rest of the world. These war hawks are determined to breach the "taboo" against the use of nuclear weapons that grew after the world experienced the horror of the incineration of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945. It would be cowardly and foolish to turn our attention away from the open threats and plans to use Weapons of Mass Destruction that are issuing from the White House, not Iraq, and are embodied in the new Bush military doctrine. We must stop the Bush Administration from threatening and killing the people of the world who are not our enemy. *Perspective on the January 18 demonstration & Update on People's Peace Congress* On October 26th hundreds of thousands of people demonstrated in Washington, DC and San Francisco in demonstrations called by A.N.S.W.E.R. (http://www.InternationalANSWER.org ) and in coinciding actions in 220 cities around the world. On December 10th thousands took part in anti-war actions called by United for Peace (http://www.unitedforpeace.org ) in dozens of cities around the country marking International Human Rights Day. On December 14, there will be an important demonstration in New York City starting at 125th St. in Harlem that will also oppose a war in Iraq called by Uptown Youth for Peace and Justice (http://www.uptownpj.org ), and in San Francisco, ANSWER hosts an anti-war teach-in at 7pm at the Horace Mann Middle School (23rd & Valencia). Every day, there are protests, rallies and teach-ins called by local organizations in cities and towns around the United States in opposition to a new war against Iraq. On January 18, there will be a massive protest in Washington DC initiated by A.N.S.W.E.R. and endorsed by thousands of organizations and individuals (for an endorsers list, see http://www.internationalanswer.org/campaigns/j18/endorsers.html). This timely demonstration is gaining momentum everyday with support coming from community, labor, student, religious, women's, civil rights, LGBT, and peace groups around the country. On January 20, Black Voices for Peace will be organizing an important activity in Washington DC. We are marching in Washington DC and San Francisco on January 18 to embrace the true legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King's birthday. The U.S. possesses 6,000 nuclear weapons. It has spent $7 trillion on their development in the last half-century. Instead of spending $400 billion every year for weapons of mass destruction and to promote militarism, we the people of the United States will demand on January 18 that our money be spent to provide free education, healthcare and childcare, jobs and job training, expanded support for the elderly and other things that human beings need. In San Francisco, we will meet at 11 am at Embarcadero & Market Streets and march to Civic Center for a 1 pm rally. The scenario for January 18th includes a brief rally on the West side of the Capitol starting at 11 am followed by a massive march to the Washington DC Navy Yard, a huge military complex located in the heart of one of Washington's working class communities, walking distance from the Capitol. On Saturday, January 18, tens of thousands will travel by bus, van and car caravan from all over the country for the National Marches against war on Iraq. We encourage people to bring banners and puppets, to dress as weapons inspectors, to find as many creative methods to dramatize our demands in opposition to a war of aggression and in support of a reorganization of society's priorities that would put people's needs ahead of the Pentagon and the war profiteers in Corporate America. Dr. Martin Luther King said, "The greatest purveyor of violence on the planet is my own government." That statement is as true today as it was during the Vietnam War. We will honor Dr. King's legacy by marching against the terror that these weapons of mass destruction wreak on the world. We also join with people all over the world who mourn the loss of Phillip Berrigan who devoted his life to courageous opposition to militarism and war. Phil Berrigan put his body on the line in the struggle to call attention to the inherently evil nature of weapons of mass destruction produced by and for the US military industrial complex. In addition to honoring Dr. King, we intend to make the January 18 march a living tribute to Phil Berrigan's life and legacy. Given the feedback that we have received, we have decided that there will be more effective organization and participation in the People's Peace Congress if it takes place after the January 18-19-20 weekend. Many local areas indicated that they wanted to participate in the Peoples Peace Congress, but reserving buses for the entire weekend was logistically difficult and extremely expensive. Given the response from different communities that are excited about participation in the People's Peace Congress, we are suggesting the rescheduling of the Congress in the spring. The A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition is consulting with different member organizations and supporters, and will announce further plans for the People's Peace Congress in the coming weeks. Everyone agrees that the most important and urgent task -- given the imminent war danger -- is for a massive street mobilization on the Martin Luther King birthday weekend in Washington DC. If you're planning to travel to and stay in Washington DC, there will be a lot to do, including student and youth gatherings following the demonstration. Further details will be announced soon. HELP SPREAD THE WORD! A new flyer is now available to help spread the word about the upcoming actions. It can be downloaded at http://www.actionsf.org/images/pdf-files/mlk1-18.pdf or http://www.internationalanswer.org/campaigns/resources/index.html. If you are unable to open or print the flyer, call us at 415-821-6545 or email answer@actionsf.org and we can mail you an original copy or a stack of flyers. ********** FOR MORE INFORMATION: http://www.InternationalANSWER.org http://www.VoteNoWar.org answer@actionsf.org New York 212-633-6646 Washington 202-332-5757 Chicago 773-878-0166 Los Angeles 213-487-2368 San Francisco 415-821-6545 Sign up to receive national updates (low volume): http://www.internationalanswer.org/subscribelist.html ------------------ This is the San Francisco International Action Center (IAC) listserv. You can support the work of the IAC online at www.progressunity.org You can make a donation via credit card over the phone by calling us at (415) 821-6545. To volunteer, call (415) 821-6545 or email iac@actionsf.org. Anyone can subscribe by sending any message to IAC-SF-subscribe@action-mail.org To unsubscribe send a message to IAC-SF-unsubscribe@action-mail.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 00:12:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: new publication Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, poetryetc@jiscmail.ac.uk, po_po_pr@clarkson.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Just out: Poetry International VI, with a 50 page Cuban section introduced, edited, and mostly translated by yours truly. To order, go to www-rohan.sdsu.edu/dept/press/poetry.html and select "subscription," where, oddly, you can buy individual issues. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 00:23:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: another new publication Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From Junction Press, Across the Line / Al otro lado: The Poetry of Baja California, bilingual, 384 pages, edited by Harry Polkinhorn and Mark Weiss. 53 poets, a handful of indigenous poetry, a couple of corridos, and a whole poetic culture you've never heard of. Cover price $25, $20 to list members, plus $3.00 shipping in the US. Email to order. "If you can't make it across the border, Across the Line/Al otro lado is the next best thing to a trip to Mexico's Baja California. The astonishing range of fifty-three poetic voices, traditional native chants and popular corridos which are generously presented in bilingual format is rooted in a time and place that is both timeless and in constant flux.The poems are by turns full of yearning, lyric, exultant, pungent, mournful, fast-paced as the streets of Tijuana or slow as a cactus growing beyond the dunes. Baja Californians are a population on the move, alive to change, living on the edge, and the poetry in this lovingly-translated anthology conveys the feel of gritty towns and cities, burning deserts, lonely mountains, a huge sky still crowded with stars, the wind blowing in off the Pacific or the Sea of Cortes, the nearness of gray whales and pelicans, the uncertainties of isolation, the jittery rhythms of urban life, the United States forever looming on the other side of the border. And I am happy to say that these poets value the beauty and importance of Baja California'a unique and fragile ecosystems; in Baja California moonlight still matters." Homero Aridjis, noted Mexican poet and president of International PEN "...a long-overdue eye-opener... Across the Line /Al otro lado should be required reading in our high schools and colleges. ...the poets...are always interesting, and sometimes astounding." Luis Albert Urrea, The San Diego Union Tribune "Across the Line / Al otro lado is an important addition to the growing library of Mexican poetry available in bilingual edition. Polkinhorn and Weiss have undertaken an enormous labor of love, and to a considerable extent pull it off successfully." Margaret Randall, American Book Review "The translations are superlative. It is clear that an enormous amount of work has been invested in this project, and everyone involved has earned a vote of thanks for this latest effort toward amity and the search for a common voice in international relations much closer to home than many of us might realize." Sandy McKinney, ForeWord ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 03:31:09 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Baraka Folk on this list live in their own 'petit' world. Baraka is not being censored. His poem after all for worse and worse is the most read poem in these states. He's going to be dismissed from a public position for being offensive to a clear majority of its citizenry & spreading vicious lies....harry.. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 00:48:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Re: Baraka In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 12/13/02 12:31 AM, Harry Nudel at nudel-soho@MINDSPRING.COM wrote: >[...] Baraka is not being > censored. [...] He's going to be dismissed from a public position for being > offensive to a clear majority of its citizenry & spreading vicious > lies....harry.. As opposed to being hired for a public position for being offensive only to an obscure minority and spreading palliative lies? -m ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 23:54:33 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Hilton Obenzinger's post on significance of Viet-Nam Anti-War Protest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The peoples' resistance was enormous in Vietnam but there was a world wide struggle that virtually crippled the various governments: the protest grew even here (were there was uninvolvmedt but not conscription but never the less there was a strong anti-war movement as we had "volunteers" in Vietnam) and that eventually began to involve people who were more cnservative: it was spearheaded origionally by more "militant" groups but joined by "hippies"a nd others but it grew exponentially. The Vietnamese people won by the application of principles of Mao Tse Tung's guerilla war and his philosophy (his "thought") and peoples war as also inspired by Ho Chin Minh but there were also demonstrations all over the world and coincident with the war resistance all over the world and inside America and Britain many Eurpoean countries, NZ, Australia, and Canada etc there was resistance and demonstrations by the Buddhists and other INSIDE Vietnam...that peoples' movement can be extremely embarrasssing - even crippling to a Govt such as LBJ's (at the time it was Holyoake inNZ - the war came to embarass him )...if for example Saddam Hussein actaully armed the people of Iraq the US would be unswise to go into Iraq: the peoples war won there but the ongoing peoples' world wide struggle is vital and it is linked to support for Baraka and the remembrance of such as the Berrigans (Philip andhis brother Daniel). The power of the people is enormous: the collapse of Imperialism will be sudden and sweeping and complete: when it comes: make no mistake. It is right and neccessary to rebel and protest against the insanity of Imperialist aggression and its a world wide problem: the people of the world need to seize control of the means of production: ultimately that will lead to disarmament but for now the smaller nations need to arm themselves and the people need to be ready and armed in all senses of that term. It seems to me that Antin - if he dismissed peoples' war - appears to nbe lurching to the Right. And also Bruce Andrews ...one suspects that any political action or interest is theoretical by Andrews and Antin and that they just want to keep their well paid academic jobs while putting clever phrases into "political" poetry. They what is known as "all talk and no do". I hope I'm wrong. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Vincent" To: Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 11:36 AM Subject: Hilton Obenzinger's post on significance of Viet-Nam Anti-War Protest > (Can someone send Hilton the > name/address of the Poetix Webmaster; apparently he can read but he can no > longer deliver! Thanks, Stephen Vincent) > > > Dear List, > > There has been some talk about the effectiveness of anti-war protests > during the 60s and 70s, and I want to clarify something. For some reason, > my new email program receives posts but the big Bufallo can't seem to > recognize my replies, so I thank Stephen Vincent for allowing me to > piggy-back on his address. > > The US was forced out of Vietnam because of the resistance of the > Vietnamese, first and foremost, but the active and growing opposition by > people in the US played a decisive role in hampering the US military > strategy, as did the rest of international solidarity with the Vietnamese. > LBJ was forced to abdicate, and Nixon was forced to do his dirty tricks and > COINTELPRO because of the loud and persistent opposition to the war and > racism. The antics of the anti-war movement became part of a strategy of > undermining authority through laughter. I was there when Ginsberg levitated > the Pentagon in 1967 -- no one expected the colossal building to OM its way > to heaven, but it was hilarious. At a time when stone-faced creeps ran the > show, laughter and poetry and spiritual adventure claimed an alternative > worldview. They still do. > > Hilton Obenzinger > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 02:54:33 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: byteloop #0005 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE PAUL WHITNEY COLLECTION byteloop #0005..................excerpt www.the-hyper-age.com roulades roulades roulades roulades overtook overtook overtook overtook pint Stock sieve pint Stock Thorolf sieve pint Stock Thorolf sieve pint Stock Thorolf sieve Thorolf sixpence sixpence sixpence sixpence pint pint pint pint wrapping steadily submitted wrapping steadily submitted wrapping steadily potatoes submitted wrapping strain steadily potatoes submitted strain potatoes strain potatoes strain bites bites purposing bites spoonful plenty purposing bites spoonful plenty purposing spoonful plenty purposing little pieces spoonful plenty dripping little pieces crumbs dripping little pieces oz Crumbs-d crumbs dripping balls little pieces oz Crumbs-d crumbs dripping balls oz Crumbs-d crumbs desired balls oz Crumbs-d desired balls desired desired simmering simmering hast simmering hast simmering hast sausages hast sausages tackling elaborate Thorolf sausages tackling elaborate Thorolf sausages tackling elaborate Thorolf tackling elaborate Thorolf spoonful spoonful spoonful spoonful oz Crumbs oz Crumbs oz Crumbs tyranny colonized oz Crumbs tyranny colonized tyranny colonized tyranny colonized blund Hrisa-blund blund Hrisa-blund blund Hrisa-blund blund Hrisa-blund clutched clutched Brynjolf made little clutched Kveldulf donors Brynjolf made little carles taking clutched Kveldulf donors Brynjolf made little carles taking prepared bade Kveldulf donors Brynjolf made little carles taking prepared bade Kveldulf donors carles taking dwelt Hrisa prepared bade northwards dwelt Hrisa prepared bade northwards dwelt Hrisa northwards dwelt Hrisa northwards accomplished deed accomplished deed accomplished deed accomplished deed tenders tenders tenders tenders Egil mounted Egil mounted hearted Egil mounted hearted Egil mounted hearted pieces hearted pieces pieces crust pieces crust carles awhile crust Aulvir Hnuf carles awhile crust Aulvir Hnuf carles awhile Aulvir Hnuf carles awhile Aulvir Hnuf LENTILS LENTILS LENTILS LENTILS Squinter Gunnhilda Squinter Gunnhilda Squinter Gunnhilda Squinter Gunnhilda cornflour cornflour cornflour Silverside-d cornflour Silverside-d Silverside-d Silverside-d tablespoonful Marmalade-d tablespoonful Marmalade-d tablespoonful Marmalade-d tablespoonful Marmalade-d followed brothers come followed brothers come harm mischief followed brothers come harm mischief followed brothers come cornflour harm mischief cornflour harm mischief cornflour cornflour walnuts walnuts Harold long walnuts comrades all loosed searched Harold long walnuts shuttle comrades all loosed searched Harold long shuttle comrades all loosed searched Harold long shuttle comrades all loosed searched shuttle Redden all blood Redden all blood Redden all blood cheaper Redden all blood cheaper cheaper cheaper alternately alternately melted alternately melted alternately melted melted Total Total all Total all Total all oz all oz boiling long oz boiling long oz Total boiling long Yngvar Total boiling long Yngvar Total Yngvar Total wounds ask cattle Yngvar wounds ask cattle wounds ask stock cattle wounds ask stock cattle stock chattels boiled stock chattels boiled Skallagrim named chattels boiled Skallagrim named chattels boiled Skallagrim named Thorolf Skallagrim named Thorolf islands Thorolf weights islands Thorolf Total weights islands Total Total weights islands Total Total weights Total Total --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.427 / Virus Database: 240 - Release Date: 12/6/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 02:57:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: byteloop #0006 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE PAUL WHITNEY COLLECTION byteloop #0006..................excerpt www.the-hyper-age.com BODKIN BODKIN STOCCATA fencing BODKIN STOCCATA fencing Crosseth heaven courses BODKIN STOCCATA fencing Crosseth heaven courses STOCCATA fencing Crosseth heaven courses RONDEL score SCROYLE rascally Crosseth heaven courses RONDEL score SCROYLE rascally RONDEL score SCROYLE rascally RONDEL score SCROYLE rascally BROKE transact BROKE transact BROKE transact BROKE transact Pol let Pol let TIBICINE tibia Pol let MOTTE TIBICINE tibia Pol let MOTTE TIBICINE tibia MOTTE TIBICINE tibia MOTTE? told declining told declining wrapping told declining reconcilement wrapping told declining reconcilement wrapping reconcilement Pyr wrapping BESCUMBER reconcilement Pyr BESCUMBER Pyr BESCUMBER Pyr BESCUMBER offence offence offence offence PROJECTION throwing enough PROJECTION throwing enough PROJECTION throwing enough ROVER shooting PROJECTION throwing enough ROVER shooting offered ROVER shooting thy AEneids? offered ROVER shooting thy AEneids? offered simpleton thy AEneids? offered simpleton thy AEneids? simpleton simpleton doth pierce doth pierce doth pierce doth pierce judges judges judges judges all prepared all prepared all prepared all prepared Ay masters Ay masters Ay masters Ay masters thy thy thy motley gull thy Tuc Achates motley gull Tuc Achates motley gull Tuc Achates motley gull Tuc Achates compassionately compassionately compassionately donors compassionately donors donors donors thorny satirical thorny satirical tenders thorny satirical tenders come all thorny satirical tenders come all tenders come all analytic come all analytic hearted analytic grows Lex hearted analytic grows Lex hearted grows Lex hearted grows Lex spotted spotted shooters see spotted shooters see spotted shooters see shooters see all lessons all lessons all lessons all lessons Katherine Katherine Katherine Katherine Unto travails reeling claps Unto travails reeling claps Unto travails reeling claps Unto travails reeling claps DUILL DUILL DUILL DUILL Tib parties accuser accused Tib parties accuser accused Tib parties accuser accused Hor Tib parties accuser accused dearly Hor dearly Hor Katherine dearly Hor Katherine dearly Katherine Katherine such Katherine such Katherine such made Katherine REEL such made Katherine REEL shuttle-Caes made REEL shuttle-Caes made REEL shuttle-Caes buskins shuttle-Caes buskins hoped buskins hoped savours buskins hoped savours hoped savours savours sung aloof WICKED sung aloof awe-stricken ceased WICKED sung aloof awe-stricken ceased WICKED sung aloof awe-stricken ceased WICKED awe-stricken ceased tricking cheating Nares tricking cheating Nares tricking cheating Nares tricking cheating Nares lawyers captains lawyers captains obliged lawyers captains obliged lawyers captains obliged obliged Scaeva Scaeva Scaeva cast Scaeva cast cast farthings cast Tuc matters sirrah all farthings Tuc matters sirrah all farthings Tuc matters sirrah desired all farthings Tuc matters sirrah blast desired all blast desired MECAENAS GALLUS blast desired habits MECAENAS GALLUS blast habits MECAENAS GALLUS habits MECAENAS GALLUS habits discourse discourse discourse discourse James --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.427 / Virus Database: 240 - Release Date: 12/6/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 15:31:34 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Lasko Subject: Re: Baraka Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed One wonders if Trent Lott feels any sense of partnership in innocent offense as he and Amiri Baraka go the way of censure? Which is to presume that Strom Thurmond had, with Baraka, a strong distaste for Jews as well as blacks; perhaps they're joined at the hip? _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:42:08 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: discontinuous extroversion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/12/02 11:17:30 PM, Magazinnik2@AOL.COM writes: << Hahaha! - that's funny - I'll probably distribute it in the office! Mike In a message dated 12/12/2002 10:25:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, Austinwja@AOL.COM writes: > > Schizophrenia --- Do You Hear What I Hear? > > > Multiple Personality Disorder --- We Three Queens Disoriented Are > > > Dementia --- I Think I'll be Home for Christmas > > > Narcissistic --- Hark the Herald Angels Sing About Me > > > Manic --- Deck the Halls and Walls and House and Lawn and Streets and > > Stores and Office and Town and Cars and Busses and Trucks and trees > > and Fire Hydrants and...... > > > Paranoid --- Santa Claus is Coming to Get me > > > Borderline Personality Disorder --- Thoughts of Roasting on an Open > > Fire > > > Personality Disorder --- You Better Watch Out, I'm Gonna Cry, I'm > > Gonna Pout, Maybe I'll tell You Why > > > > Obsessive Compulsive Disorder ---Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle > > Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle > Bells, > > Jingle Bells >> >> Hello Mike! Giving credit where due, the laughs below come from Geoffrey Gatza, not me. I wish I were that clever. Best, Bill farmingdale.edu/~Austinwj KojaPress.com Amazon.com BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 09:44:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: discontinuous extroversion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The joke could at least reprsent OCD correctly. One should COUNT the number of times one says "Jingle Bells" and be sure to get it right each time. Vernon > > > > Obsessive Compulsive Disorder ---Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle > > > > Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle > > Bells, > > > > Jingle Bells >> >> > > Hello Mike! Giving credit where due, the laughs below come from Geoffrey > Gatza, not me. I wish I were that clever. Best, Bill > > farmingdale.edu/~Austinwj > KojaPress.com > Amazon.com > BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:50:40 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: discontinuous extroversion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/13/02 10:45:05 AM, frazerv@BELLSOUTH.NET writes: << The joke could at least reprsent OCD correctly. One should COUNT the number of times one says "Jingle Bells" and be sure to get it right each time. Vernon > > > > Obsessive Compulsive Disorder ---Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle > > > > Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle > > Bells, > > > > Jingle Bells >> >> >> Ho! Ho! Ho! And checking it twice. Good luck with the new book, Vernon. Best, Bill farmingdale.edu/~Austinwj KojaPress.com Amazon.com BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 09:56:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Lottsa Luck, Baraka & Troupe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've just come back on the list, and I've been out of loop on recent = discussions of Baraka, Troupe and Lott. Baraka's 9/11 poem still doesn't particularly offend me. I worked in = government long enough to know who and what he's talking about. I = haven't read the poem in a while, but the "4,000 Israelis" could have = received word from the US government as opposed to Israel's government.=20 It's sad to see a poet like Troupe put through the hoops. Writing is one = of the few areas where you don't need a formal education, only the = desire to learn to read, then to write, and then to take the blows to = the head that might lead to success before brain damage occurs. It's a = sad commentary on our system of artistic patronage that a person would = feel he had to fudge his resume. Bill Clinton did much worse in another = teapot tempest. Given what I read in this morning's paper, Lott has a much worse history = than I realized. Still, I wouldn't call for his resignation. He could = serve as a reminder that Baraka correctly identified many of the people = in power.=20 Vernon ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:59:55 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: FW: Dow can't stamp out parody websites (or patrick@proximate.org) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: ann15-proxy@rtmark.com [mailto:ann15-proxy@rtmark.com]On Behalf Of RTMark Press Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 7:56 AM To: patrick-proximate.org Subject: Dow can't stamp out parody websites (or patrick@proximate.org) This message is not commercial. To get off our list, write mailto:remove@rtmark.com?subject=patrick@proximate.org. December 13, 2002 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Paul Hardwin: mailto:phardwin@yurt.org DowEthics.com: mailto:info@dowethics.com DOW, BURSON-MARSTELLER CLAMP DOWN ON FAKE WEBSITES But companies find it harder to stifle criticism Two giant companies are struggling to shut down parody websites that portray them unfavorably, interrupting internet use for thousands in the process, and filing a lawsuit that pits the formidable legal department of PR giant Burson-Marsteller against a freshman at Hampshire College. The activists behind the fake corporate websites have fought back, and obtained substantial publicity in the process. Fake websites have been used by activists before, but Dow-Chemical.com and BursonMarsteller.com represent the first time that such websites have successfully been used to publicize abuses by specific corporations. A December 3 press release originating from one of the fake sites, Dow-Chemical.com, explained the "real" reasons that Dow could not take responsibility for the Bhopal catastrophe, which has resulted in an estimated 20,000 deaths over the years (http://www.theyesmen.org/dow/#release). "Our prime responsibilities are to the people who own Dow shares, and to the industry as a whole," the release stated. "We cannot do anything for the people of Bhopal." The fake site immediately received thousands of outraged e-mails (http://www.dowethics.com/r/about/corp/email.htm). Within hours, the real Dow sent a legal threat to Dow-Chemical.com's upstream provider, Verio, prompting Verio to shut down the fake Dow's ISP for nearly a day, closing down hundreds of unrelated websites and bulletin boards in the process. The fake Dow website quickly resurfaced at an ISP in Australia. (http://theyesmen.org/dow/#threat) In a comical anticlimax, Dow then used a little-known domain-name rule to take possession of Dow-Chemical.com (http://theyesmen.org/dow/#story), another move which backfired when amused journalists wrote articles in newspapers from The New York Times to The Hindu in India (http://theyesmen.org/dow/#links), and sympathetic activists responded by cloning and mirroring the site at many locations, including http://www.dowethics.com/, http://www.dowindia.com/ and, with a twist, http://www.mad-dow-disease.com/. Dow continues to play whack-a-mole with these sites (at least one ISP has received veiled threats). Burson-Marsteller, the public relations company that helped to "spin" Bhopal, has meanwhile sued college student Paul Hardwin (mailto:phardwin@yurt.org) for putting up a fake Burson-Marsteller site, http://www.bursonmarsteller.com/, which recounted how the PR giant helped to downplay the Bhopal disaster. Burson-Marsteller's suit against Hardwin will be heard next week by the World Intellectual Property Organization (http://reamweaver.com/bmwipo/wipo.html). Hardwin, unable to afford a lawyer, has composed a dryly humorous 57-page rebuttal to the PR giant's lawsuit (http://www.reamweaver.com/bmwipo/response.htm#reality). On page 7, for instance, the student notes that Burson-Marsteller's "stated goal is 'to ensure that the perceptions which surround our clients and influence their stakeholders are consistent with reality.'" Hardwin goes on to assert that his satirical domain is doing precisely that, by publicizing "academic and journalistic materials about Burson-Marsteller's involvement with and relationship to, for example, Philip Morris and the National Smoker's Alliance, a consumer front group designed to create the appearance of public support for big-tobacco policies; Union Carbide and the deaths of 20,000 people following the 1984 disaster in Bhopal; and political regimes such as that of Romanian dictator Nicolae Ceausescu and more recently Saudi Arabia following the events of September 11; and to properly associate them with the relevant Trademark so that they may be understood accordingly by Internet users." In response to the suit's claim that "a substantial degree of goodwill is associated with [the Burson-Marstellar Trademark]" Hardwin offers much "evidence to the contrary" including "a newspaper headline in which the Complainant is characterized as 'the Devil.'" The primary goal of RTMark (http://rtmark.com/) is to publicize corporate subversion of the democratic process. Just like other corporations, it achieves its aims by any and all means at its disposal. RTMark has previously helped to publicize websites against political parties (http://rtmark.com/othersites.html#fpo), political figures (http://www.rtmark.com/bush.html), and entities like the World Trade Organization (http://www.gatt.org) and the World Economic Forum (http://www.world-economic-forum.com). # 30 # This message is not commercial. To get off our list, write mailto:remove@rtmark.com?subject=patrick@proximate.org. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:05:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: Lottsa Luck, Baraka & Troupe In-Reply-To: <001501c2a2b7$dfe5f620$210110ac@gateway.2wire.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >Given what I read in this morning's paper, Lott has a much worse history >than I realized. Still, I wouldn't call for his resignation. He could >serve as a reminder that Baraka correctly identified many of the people >in power. That's exactly what Bob Herbert said yesterday in the New York Times. It does more good to have Lott stay than it does having him disappear from public view. The worst thing about all this is that Rove and the White House have seized upon the opportunity to make Bush look like the kinder, gentler, compassionate conservative that he is not. Did anyone see footage from the speech that Bush gave yesterday in Philadelphia. Meanwhile, in New Jersey, the State Senate made moves to eliminate not Baraka but the position of Poet Laureate. I also think this is good. The First Amendment community has been preparing and licking its chops for this fight, but people had to wait for the court action on behalf of the NJ State government. Now the action can begin, and I'm very interested in watching all this play out. It will certainly keep poetry in the news. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:22:09 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: FW: Dow can't stamp out parody websites (or patrick@proximate.org) Comments: To: patrick@proximate.org In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" YAY HAMPSHIRE COLLEGE, my alma mater. i'm so proud of those scalliwags. you get 'em, freshman parodist! only we never said "freshman" we said "first-year student". At 10:59 AM -0500 12/13/02, Patrick Herron wrote: >-----Original Message----- >From: ann15-proxy@rtmark.com [mailto:ann15-proxy@rtmark.com]On Behalf Of >RTMark Press >Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 7:56 AM >To: patrick-proximate.org >Subject: Dow can't stamp out parody websites (or patrick@proximate.org) > > > This message is not commercial. To get off our list, write > mailto:remove@rtmark.com?subject=patrick@proximate.org. > >December 13, 2002 >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > Contact: Paul Hardwin: mailto:phardwin@yurt.org > DowEthics.com: mailto:info@dowethics.com > >DOW, BURSON-MARSTELLER CLAMP DOWN ON FAKE WEBSITES >But companies find it harder to stifle criticism > >Two giant companies are struggling to shut down parody websites that >portray them unfavorably, interrupting internet use for thousands in >the process, and filing a lawsuit that pits the formidable legal >department of PR giant Burson-Marsteller against a freshman at >Hampshire College. > >The activists behind the fake corporate websites have fought back, and >obtained substantial publicity in the process. > >Fake websites have been used by activists before, but Dow-Chemical.com >and BursonMarsteller.com represent the first time that such websites >have successfully been used to publicize abuses by specific >corporations. > >A December 3 press release originating from one of the fake sites, >Dow-Chemical.com, explained the "real" reasons that Dow could not take >responsibility for the Bhopal catastrophe, which has resulted in an >estimated 20,000 deaths over the years >(http://www.theyesmen.org/dow/#release). "Our prime responsibilities >are to the people who own Dow shares, and to the industry as a whole," >the release stated. "We cannot do anything for the people of Bhopal." >The fake site immediately received thousands of outraged e-mails >(http://www.dowethics.com/r/about/corp/email.htm). > >Within hours, the real Dow sent a legal threat to Dow-Chemical.com's >upstream provider, Verio, prompting Verio to shut down the fake Dow's >ISP for nearly a day, closing down hundreds of unrelated websites and >bulletin boards in the process. > >The fake Dow website quickly resurfaced at an ISP in Australia. >(http://theyesmen.org/dow/#threat) > >In a comical anticlimax, Dow then used a little-known domain-name rule >to take possession of Dow-Chemical.com >(http://theyesmen.org/dow/#story), another move which backfired when >amused journalists wrote articles in newspapers from The New York >Times to The Hindu in India (http://theyesmen.org/dow/#links), and >sympathetic activists responded by cloning and mirroring the site at >many locations, including http://www.dowethics.com/, >http://www.dowindia.com/ and, with a twist, >http://www.mad-dow-disease.com/. Dow continues to play whack-a-mole >with these sites (at least one ISP has received veiled threats). > >Burson-Marsteller, the public relations company that helped to "spin" >Bhopal, has meanwhile sued college student Paul Hardwin >(mailto:phardwin@yurt.org) for putting up a fake Burson-Marsteller >site, http://www.bursonmarsteller.com/, which recounted how the PR >giant helped to downplay the Bhopal disaster. Burson-Marsteller's suit >against Hardwin will be heard next week by the World Intellectual >Property Organization (http://reamweaver.com/bmwipo/wipo.html). > >Hardwin, unable to afford a lawyer, has composed a dryly humorous >57-page rebuttal to the PR giant's lawsuit >(http://www.reamweaver.com/bmwipo/response.htm#reality). On page 7, >for instance, the student notes that Burson-Marsteller's "stated goal >is 'to ensure that the perceptions which surround our clients and >influence their stakeholders are consistent with reality.'" Hardwin >goes on to assert that his satirical domain is doing precisely that, >by publicizing "academic and journalistic materials about >Burson-Marsteller's involvement with and relationship to, for example, >Philip Morris and the National Smoker's Alliance, a consumer front >group designed to create the appearance of public support for >big-tobacco policies; Union Carbide and the deaths of 20,000 people >following the 1984 disaster in Bhopal; and political regimes such as >that of Romanian dictator Nicolae Ceausescu and more recently Saudi >Arabia following the events of September 11; and to properly associate >them with the relevant Trademark so that they may be understood >accordingly by Internet users." > >In response to the suit's claim that "a substantial degree of goodwill >is associated with [the Burson-Marstellar Trademark]" Hardwin offers >much "evidence to the contrary" including "a newspaper headline in >which the Complainant is characterized as 'the Devil.'" > > >The primary goal of RTMark (http://rtmark.com/) is to publicize >corporate subversion of the democratic process. Just like other >corporations, it achieves its aims by any and all means at its >disposal. RTMark has previously helped to publicize websites against >political parties (http://rtmark.com/othersites.html#fpo), political >figures (http://www.rtmark.com/bush.html), and entities like the World >Trade Organization (http://www.gatt.org) and the World Economic Forum >(http://www.world-economic-forum.com). > > # 30 # > > This message is not commercial. To get off our list, write > mailto:remove@rtmark.com?subject=patrick@proximate.org. -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:28:53 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Congress writes Bush on Venezuela - add your signature MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Original Message----- From: Alberto M. Giordano [mailto:narconews@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 1:01 AM To: narconews@hotmail.com Cc: narconews@yahoogroups.com Subject: [narconews] Congress writes Bush on Venezuela - add your signature December 13, 2002 Please Distribute Widely Dear Colleagues, "We, the undersigned organizations and persons, urge you to declare unequivocally that the government of the United States is opposed to any unconstitutional or coup attempt against the democratically elected government of Venezuela." - U.S. Rep. Dennis Kucinich, Ohio - U.S. Rep. John Conyers, Michigan - U.S. Rep. José Serrano, New York - U.S. Rep. Barney Frank, Massachusetts - U.S. Rep. Major Owens, New York - Al Giordano, journalist, América - and you? KIND READERS, Please add your name to this urgent letter. You can read the entire text of the open letter at: http://www.narconews.com/ (Thanks to Washington DC IndyMedia for providing the mechanism by which you can add your name to this important appeal.) Let's show them what Authentic Democracy means! Time is of the essence. Please act. from somewhere in a country called América, Al Giordano Publisher The Narco News Bulletin http://www.narconews.com/ narconews@hotmail.com Subscribe for free alerts of new reports: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/narconews Suscríbete gratis para alertas de reportajes nuevos:} http://groups.yahoo.com/group/narconewsandes ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 18:08:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Nathaniel Mackey at the MLA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The Division on Poetry Modern Language Association Invites you to a "Conversation with Poets" featuring Nathaniel Mackey with Juliana Spahr, Steve McCaffery, Roland Greene, Charles Bernstein, and Lorenzo Thomas ______ Saturday, December 28, 7:15-8:30 PM Gramercy B (Second Floor) The New York Hilton 53rd Street at Sixth Avenue, New York ADMISSION FREE AND OPEN TO THE PUBLIC (Note: the session -- #325 -- will begin promptly.) and for those who have registered for the MLA Convention ... The University of Alabama Press and the editors of the Modern and Contemporary Poetics Series invite you to meet and greet poet and critic Nathaniel Mackey on Saturday, December 28, 2002. Mackey will be signing his book, "Discrepant Engagement: Dissonance, Cross-Culturality, and Experimental Writing", from 4:30-5:30 pm at The Press's booth (#212) in the MLA Exhibit Hall. Please join us. (Note only those with registration badges are allowed into the Book Exhibit.) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:38:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Re: Baraka MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Steven- As part of the ongoing petition flap, I'd like to address your concerns. You say we live in a racist society, but that black v. white & back gets us nowhere. Correct. The question is, why is this the case? Is it whitey? Is it the blue-eyed devil, genetically wired to destroy everything it touches? Of course not. Some of my best friends are blue-eyed honkeys. If Bill Clinton's people really were badass, they would have said, "It's the power structure, stupid!" Of course they wouldn't- being part of the subjugation that benefitted the few, who happen to be mostly white. When you saw "white power structure", you saw red. The knee-jerk reaction was to engage the black v. white dichotomy that you know is useless. This is the blueprint for continued dominance. Let us continue to engage in self-defeating rhetoric. African-Americans will continue to be wary of coalition-building with white folks. Whites will bite black backs for the scraps the power structure has thrown them. Nothing changes. Your initial turn-off to the petition was that you thought you might be part of the "white ruling class" that was railed against. Come on. I have a hard time believing this. The powers-that-be may monitor this list, but I doubt they'd post such a candid message- as themselves, anyway. Whether you agree with the petition or not, let's be clear. This is not just a black v. white issue. Yes, Codoleeza Rice & Colin Powell are in this Administration. And they play ball w/ the power structure. Baraka on the other hand, was not asked to read at this past inauguration, Clinton's inauguration, & will probably never be asked to read at any inauguration in the near future. And it ain't because he's black. WHO BLEW UP AMERICA isn't feeling THE PULSE OF MORNING, & the power structure isn't feeling Baraka. Frank Sherlock ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:07:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: discontinuous extroversion In-Reply-To: <001101c2a2b6$30a284e0$210110ac@gateway.2wire.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Vernon Frazer wrote: > The joke could at least reprsent OCD correctly. One should COUNT the number > of times one says "Jingle Bells" and be sure to get it right each time. > > Vernon > Vernon, OCD comes in many forms. I have the Intrusive Negative Thoughts thing going, for example, so I would sing the entire song through once, and then think: Oh my God! Did I forget anything? What did I forget? Did I leave out a verse? Oh my God. I have to check. I have to do it all over again to make sure. Jingle Bells, Take 2. This time, it's: Okay, I know I had all the verses in, that was good, that was OH SHIT! The F sharp in the third measure! I completely fucked up that F sharp! Everybody's going to know it was me. They're going to think I'm stupid. They're going to hate me. They're going to think I was trying to commit blasphemy. ... you see the pattern. Gwyn ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:10:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: black as Baraka / Baraka as black In-Reply-To: <7CA9C2A7.4AE55505.0080AC7C@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Ok, forget the petition, here's Baraka: Who do Tom Ass Clarence Work for Who doo doo come out the Colon's mouth Who know what kind of Skeeza is a Condoleeza Who pay Connelly to be a wooden Negro Now, leaving aside the juvenile playground level of the attack here, the presumption is that any black person who works for, or even agrees with, the administration in any way is a "tom," unlike the more authentic black people who will, of course, agree with Baraka. I guess I understand the temptation, and I can see that "tokenism" is a real mechanism that can be used to help the "powers that be" get away with murder, but I still have to believe that polarizing and demonizing (and tom-izing too) are part of the problem rather than the solution. Steve ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:39:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Re: black as Baraka / Baraka as black MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You said it, Steve. Rice & Powell are key figures in this administration's plans to GET WAY WITH MURDER in the coming war. Baraka gets street & lowdown. But let's be honest. Who's really done the polarizing & demonizing? This regime, before the entire world- or Baraka at the Geraldine Dodge Festival? Let's not pretend if Baraka would just be civil he'd be influencing GW policy. What real unity would be achieved by letting Powell & Rice off the hook.? Their language is palatable- their deeds are foul. Baraka's language is nasty. Who will he have killed in 2003? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:44:24 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Lilly Autism Poesis Grundlage Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/12/12/eveningnews/main532886.shtml ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:56:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Re: black as Baraka / Baraka as black In-Reply-To: <3AC9257F.60307AFD.0080AC7C@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII You're right, we are talking about murder here and your righteous anger is entirely justified. My complaints about language use sound trivial and fastidious when you hold them up against atrocity and bloodshed. Baraka's language wants to get down and dirty and deal with that reality. And when you get down to it, I feel righteous anger too--I'd like to see the bastards who are fucking up the world suffer, made to pay. But I worry about that emotion because it can justify anything, including more and more violence, more and more atrocity. The problem with the media representation of the world, or one problem with it, is that it's always giving us enemies, easy targets, for our violence. I want poetry to give me something different. Steve On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Frank Sherlock wrote: > You said it, Steve. Rice & Powell are key figures in this administration's plans to GET WAY WITH MURDER in the coming war. Baraka gets street & lowdown. But let's be honest. Who's really done the polarizing & demonizing? This regime, before the entire world- or Baraka at the Geraldine Dodge Festival? Let's not pretend if Baraka would just be civil he'd be influencing GW policy. What real unity would be achieved by letting Powell & Rice off the hook.? Their language is palatable- their deeds are foul. Baraka's language is nasty. Who will he have killed in 2003? > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 13:26:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Baraka / Thurmond etc. In-Reply-To: <001101c2a2b6$30a284e0$210110ac@gateway.2wire.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Well, at least one difference, not offered in defense but just as statement of fact, is that Baraka has written rather sharp criticism of his own earlier position, and has been observed violently denouncing anti-Semitism, while Thurmond and Lott, so far as I've been able to determine from the public record, have taken the course of simply telling us that we have misunderstood them -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The university professes the truth, and that is its profession. It declares and promises an unlimited commitment to the truth." Jacques Derrida (Without Alibi 202) Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:29:26 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Microsoft Word query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Today I received the normal message from Microsoft Word: "Do you want to save the changes to Document3?" I clicked "No," and as the document closed, another message window appeared, briefly: "I thought not." Has anyone else had this happen? -Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 16:08:39 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: discontinuous extroversion MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Kind of a curious thing developing here that may may be related to getting the language we use out of the old TVthink ruts or may be sensitivities of poets. I was originally offended by the joke's on them tone I picked up originally, but now i see it changing to something like the joke's on us as we are human. kind of an early Christmas message even though it comes on Friday, the 13th. tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gwyn McVay" To: Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 11:07 AM Subject: Re: discontinuous extroversion > On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Vernon Frazer wrote: > > > The joke could at least reprsent OCD correctly. One should COUNT the number > > of times one says "Jingle Bells" and be sure to get it right each time. > > > > Vernon > > > Vernon, > > OCD comes in many forms. I have the Intrusive Negative Thoughts thing > going, for example, so I would sing the entire song through once, and then > think: > > Oh my God! Did I forget anything? What did I forget? Did I leave out a > verse? Oh my God. I have to check. I have to do it all over again to make > sure. > > Jingle Bells, Take 2. This time, it's: > > Okay, I know I had all the verses in, that was good, that was OH SHIT! The > F sharp in the third measure! I completely fucked up that F sharp! > Everybody's going to know it was me. They're going to think I'm stupid. > They're going to hate me. They're going to think I was trying to commit > blasphemy. > > ... you see the pattern. > > Gwyn ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:36:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: list question In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20021213132357.00a79038@email.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Question, I have a poetry MS ready to send out, some of the work has gone over this list... the text is arranged in different directions on some of the pages so you can read parts backwards, upside down and so forth...there is a sub text that is in gray tones underneath the rest of the text... so visually its rich (RTF?), its about 125 pages, any thoughts on publishers to send it to? kari edwards _________________ -GENDER RIGHTS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS- ______________________ Check out: http://www.xpressed.org/ http://www.litvert.com/issueseven.html http://www.shampoopoetry.com/ShampooThirteen/ShampooIssueThirteen.html http://homepages.which.net/~panic.brixtonpoetry/semicolon1.htm http://www.shampoopoetry.com/ShampooFourteen/ShampooIssueFourteen.html http://canwehaveourballback.com/12index.htm http://www.webdelsol.com/InPosse/edwards10.htm http://www.puppyflowers.com/II/flowers.html http://poetz.com/fir/may02.htm http://poetz.com/fir/feb02.htm http://www.muse-apprentice-guild.com/kariedwards/home.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:02:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brandon Barr Subject: Re: Microsoft Word query In-Reply-To: <001201c2a2d5$91bb9a40$6609a8c0@belzjones1500.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No, but my Word has been acting up too. Yesterday, when I tried to save a version of an essay, a dialogue box popped up that said, "This isn't nearly as witty as something Aaron Beltz could write. Are you sure you wish to save it?" I clicked "no." brandon --- http://bannerart.org/ http://texturl.net/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Aaron Belz > Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 1:29 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Microsoft Word query > > > Today I received the normal message from Microsoft Word: "Do > you want to save the changes to Document3?" I clicked "No," > and as the document > closed, another message window appeared, briefly: "I thought > not." Has > anyone else had this happen? > > -Aaron > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 13:07:34 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: Baraka In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Catherine Lasko wrote: >One wonders if Trent Lott feels any sense of partnership in innocent offense >as he and Amiri Baraka go the way of censure? Which is to presume that >Strom Thurmond had, with Baraka, a strong distaste for Jews as well as >blacks; perhaps they're joined at the hip? Who among us knows enough about Strom Thurmond to consider him one of "the hip?" -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:14:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: promote peace and understanding... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ...this is holiday season by giving gift subscriptions to Mizna, a new journal of Arab and Arab-American writing; their website is www.mizna.org--other details below: --- "K. Haddad" wrote: > From: "K. Haddad" > To: "Listserve--Mizna" > Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:19:15 -0500 > Subject: [Mizna] Give the gift of Mizna > > > Give the gift of Mizna > > Mizna is once again offering gift subscriptions for > your friends and family. Mizna features the prose, > poetry and art of Arab Americans and our supporters. > In past issues of Mizna, you have seen the work of > such established writers as Lisa Suheir Majaj, > Joanna Kadi, Khaled Mattawa, Yusef El Guindi, and > many, many others. Alongside such accomplished > writers, Mizna has provided a forum for new writers > and artists. Overall, we have featured over 100 > essayists, poets, visual artists and fiction writers > in our journal. What a perfect gift for your > friends and family! > > To give a gift of Mizna, just fill out the following > form, cut and paste it into the body of your email > and send it to: > > Mizna@mizna.org > > PLEASE SEND GIFT SUBSCRIPTIONS OF MIZNA TO: > > Name > ______________________________________________________ > > Address: > __________________________________________________ > > > PLEASE BILL THE SUBSCRIPTION TO: > > Name > ______________________________________________________ > > Address: > ____________________________________________________ > > > > Each gift subscription of Mizna is $15 (U.S. and > Canada), $25 (International) and includes two issues > of our journal. We will bill you for this gift and > send it immediately to your contacts. If you send > the information by December 18, we will guarantee it > will arrive by December 25. > > If you would like to send us a DONATION, we would > greatly appreciate that as well. Mizna survives on > grants and donations. We do NO advertising. Please > send your donations to: > > Mizna > P.O. Box 14294 > Minneapolis, MN 55414 > > Thank you. > > Sincerely, > Kathryn Haddad > > > Mizna is a forum promoting Arab-American culture > that values diversity in the Arab community. We are > committed to giving voice to Arab Americans through > literature and art. Visit our website at > www.mizna.org > > > > ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=Vol4iss1small.jpg > ATTACHMENT part 3 image/jpeg name=vol3iss3.jpg > ATTACHMENT part 4 image/jpeg name=Volume3issue2.jpg ===== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) --John Lennon and Yoko Ono __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:21:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Buffalo Poets Won't You Come Out Tonight MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ECOPOETICS #2 -- release party at Rust Belt Books, Friday, Dec. 13, 8 p.m. In conjunction with the release of ecopoetics #2, performances by ecopoetics contributors Christopher W. Alexander, Mike Basinski, Loss Pequeño Glazier, Michael Kelleher, Nick Lawrence, Douglas Manson, Ethan Paquin, Anna Reckin, Jonathan Skinner, Jessica Smith. Free admission. Copies of the magazine will be available at a special discount. Hope to see you there! ECOPOETICS is dedicated to creative-critical edges between making (with an emphasis on poetry) and ecology (the theory and praxis of deliberate earthlings); it is published biannually: single issue $6 ($10 institutions); 4-issue subscription $20 ($40 institutions). All prices include postage (outside US & Canada add $3). If you like ecopoetics, recommend it to your favorite librarian! * NOW AVAILABLE ecopoetics 02, Fall 2002 (178 pages, perfect bound): poetry, fiction, essays, translation, artwork HUMBERTO AK'ABAL birdsongs CHRIS ALEXANDER chat&coq MIEKAL AND plant morphemes for schwerner TIM ATKINS moonscapes PATRICK BARRON abruzzo fieldwork MIKE BASINSKI corn smut CHARLES BELL history of radar DODIE BELLAMY topiary landscapes ANSELM BERRIGAN gut ecology SHERRY BRENNAN pennsylvania winter SEHJAE CHUN immigrants and invasives JACK COLLOM herons MATTHEW COOPERMAN stills MARCELLA DURAND ecology of poetry ROGER FARR, AARON VIDAVER & STEVEN WARD rococo field guide JOEL FELIX & LAURA NASH south detroit pastoral w/ photos LOSS PEQUEÑO GLAZIER digital bromeliads GORDON HADFIELD on lingis CHRISTOPHER JOHNSON sebald after nature RICHARD KOSTELANETZ inside words DOUG MANSON birdfeeder drama PAIGE MENTON phonetic avians JENA OSMAN of leaves and leaflets ETHAN PAQUIN lake stacks MEREDITH QUARTERMAIN roget's matter GEORGE QUASHA axial stones (photos & text) ANNA RECKIN visual spill MICHAEL ROTHENBERG hart crane's bromeliad JAMES SHERRY enviro poetics JONATHAN SKINNER on the new niedecker JESSICA SMITH installation JULIANA SPAHR online glacier melt CHRISTINE STEWART taxonomy diagrams BRIAN STRANG alien assessment COLE SWENSEN (book of) ours DENNIS TEDLOCK desert notes ANDREA ZANZOTTO woods marshes idioms Please make checks payable to Jonathan Skinner. Write to: 106 Huntington Avenue, Buffalo, NY 14214 / jskinner@acsu.buffalo.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:21:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu Subject: new from housepress: "Lines Written in the John Snow House" by Robert Kroetsch MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable housepress is pleased to announce the release of: "Lines Written in the John Snow House" by Robert Kroetsch Written while Kroetsch was the Markin-Flanagan Writer in Residence at = the University of Calgary, "Lines Written in the John Snow House" is a = knocking on the door of community, the flaneur's tracks in the snow. Robert Kroetsch is the author of a huge number of books, his most recent = book of poetry "The Hornbooks of Rita K" (2001), and his most recent = novel "A man from the Creeks" (1998), he lives in Winnipeg. Published in an edition of 100 handbound and numbered copies, with cover = photography by Nikki Sheppy. $7.00 / copy (including postage) for more information, or to order a copy please contact: derek beaulieu derek@housepress.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 15:08:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Gallagher Subject: Lyn Hejinian MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Could someone backchannel an email address for Lyn Hejinian. Thank you. Kevin ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 15:32:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: surrealist petition for baraka MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit David, i'm glad you liked the Baraka poem. i'm not sure if you thought i was saying it was a bad poem or not. i actually was saying, for the argument that was originally put forth, whether or not it was a good poem was irrelevant. and i agree with you that that should then lead into WHO THE FUCK gets to say what's a good poem or not? it's ridiculous really, but i'm guilty of it too of course, but at the same time like to remember that someone out there (maybe even someone other than the poet who wrote the poem) likes it. i was more concerned with the idea of defending Baraka for writing his poem, and whatever poem he'll write next, for that matter. but when Baraka was asked to step down from a position because of a poem he wrote, this IS an attempt to censor. okay, some folks on this list make it clear they don't agree. but where does the thread of this begin? or is the question more, where does it end? to have something taken away from you (even though he hasn't had it taken away, just an attempt) because of a poem written and read aloud before the tender ears of the Dodge Festival, isn't this censorship? the whole thing's so stupid really when you think of it. as if Baraka wasn't who he was before, during and after. as if, upon receiving the chair he would suddenly transform into some sort of polite, grateful asshole who would promise to write only tender poems for cat lovers, or whatever seems appropriate for tea on the right side of the New Jersey tacks. my point is to defend the voice, no matter who owns it. either that or we could inform the ACLU of the list of poets who deserve their affections, and fuck the rest. and by the look of the news, the sooner the better. CAConrad In a message dated 12/12/2002 6:41:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, rova@ROVA.ORG writes: > > > Hey > > i happen to think it's a pretty powerful poem (tho 'rant' is more like what > it is) -- have you heard it read aloud? > > we read the poem out loud in a workshop -- in fact there are several jewish > women in the workshop, and it fell to one of them to read the 'offensive' > part. > > the whole thing's offensive, man! it's meant to be! all of those "Who, who, > who"s like fingers pointing at you, and you, and you (and me). you can't sit > in a room and read the poem out loud with a group of people and not be > uncomfortable, shaken up. but it became apparent as we read it that it > wasn't meant as merely an "anti-semite" or anti-jewish spiel -- it's > anti-everything! it may or may not have been a bad judgment call to put in > the part about the 4000 israelis skipping work but you've got to realize > that this whole poem is a catalogue of injustices -- real or perceived -- > rumors, etc. it's not the poet's job to be factually true, but to report the > truth of what's in the ether, what people are talking about on the street. > and you can say that it was very effective in terms of stirring things up > and making people uncomfortable, which is what it was meant to do. > > if you get into applying notions of 'craft' to it -- well, what and whose > notions of 'craft'? it's got tons of craft in terms of being a performance > piece. > > the OTHER question -- "should we defend poets for speaking their minds while > flogging politicians?" -- a politician is ostensibly supposed to be > representing a "polis," and if what he sez reveals the confines of that > polis to be a select few (in this case, white), then yes, he deserves to be > flogged. at least it's not roman times when they might literally cut off his > hands and hang them from the rostrum! all that's going to happen is that he > might lose his precious post as maj. leader. as far as i can tell, no one is > questioning lott's right to say what he said. no one is threatening to strip > him of his senatorship, or take away his salary, no one is calling in death > threats. he made a politically stupid move. being a politician, there are > consequences. amiri, being a poet, has a duty to speak his mind, and the > right to do so without being censured. if lott really believed in what he > said, he could always quit the repub. party and run on his own 1948-era > segregationist ticket, and THEN we could talk about free speech. > > -- David Hadbawnik > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Craig Allen Conrad > Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 2:28 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: surrealist petition for baraka > > > Kirstin, i'm glad you brought up Trent Lott. this of course raises all > kinds of questions. should we defend poets for speaking their minds while > flogging politicians? what do we expect from our politicians? and poets? > are both protected to speak their minds equally? > > and really, what of the ADL? should we defend a group who speaks their mind > about wanting others to not speak their mind? > > and what about the recent ruling on cross burning? is this relevant to the > conversation? should protection of expression be selective? > > the language of the petition is strong, whips around, but is ultimately > written to protect the voice of a poet. and this act will in turn help > unify the rest of us in taking such matters of free speech seriously, if we > haven't already been doing so. i know you said we shouldn't look at this as > JUST a matter of free speech, but really, in the end, despite the motives, > despite the message, despite the emotions, it comes down to wanting to > punish a poet for writing a poem. > > whether Baraka's poem is good or not is irrelevant, by the way, don't you > think? who cares about the craft of the poem, should it be allowed is the > question. there's plenty of poetry out there, and i'm sure > nobody has ever > liked it all. > > CAConrad ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 15:44:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: THE NUTCRACKER, or a Shameless Seasonal Plug MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dead all, A shameless "plug," my excuse being that I participated in making this, = and my participation was fully literary! "Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker: The Music Game" is a computer game based on = -- you guessed right! -- Tchaikovsky's The Nutcracker. This company that = I wrote for makes music games based on classical music. The whole = enterprise is based on the now proprietary (patent-pending) platform = under which can take any piece of music and scramble it in a particular = way to make an intriguing computer-based puzzle. And you don't need to = know notes or have any musical education to solve it -- you unscramble = it by ear. Meant for ages 4-104. Check it out at this site: www.KidsMusicStage.com There are links to several product reviews on the page -- they are all = raves. This is the next generation of interactive musical entertainment = - you haven't seen its like yet! Kids and adults alike fall in love with = this stuff, and I greatly enjoyed contributing to it. What was my contribution? I wrote all the voice-over and text that = appears on the CD, including little rhymed poems for children about = musical instruments, an educational Encyclopedia of Musical Instruments = (which explains about 20 instruments!), and all the game rules. I tried = to write it all as well as I could! Cheers and season's greetings! Philip Nikolayev ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 21:17:26 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Lasko Subject: Re: Baraka Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed << Who among us knows enough about Strom Thurmond to consider him one of "the hip?" > Since the hip defines the birth canal that is pragmatically "all hole", I'd say Thurmond qualifies. Cat >From: Herb Levy >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Baraka >Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 13:07:34 -0600 > >Catherine Lasko wrote: > >>One wonders if Trent Lott feels any sense of partnership in innocent >>offense >>as he and Amiri Baraka go the way of censure? Which is to presume that >>Strom Thurmond had, with Baraka, a strong distaste for Jews as well as >>blacks; perhaps they're joined at the hip? > >Who among us knows enough about Strom Thurmond to consider him one of >"the hip?" >-- >Herb Levy >P O Box 9369 >Fort Worth, TX 76147 > >herb@eskimo.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 17:08:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: Baraka Comments: To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 03:31 AM 12/13/2002 -0500, Harry Nudel wrote: . His poem after all for worse and worse is the most read poem in >these states. and how, pray tell, has this been determined? I seriously doubt that many have read more than the few lines that have been quoted in the press. I further suspect that Billy Collins remains more "read" than Baraka's poem --- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The university professes the truth, and that is its profession. It declares and promises an unlimited commitment to the truth." Jacques Derrida (Without Alibi 202) Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 17:38:05 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: stuff most of you probably already know Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Please feel free to forward this article to friends who do not live in > Washington or read the Post. This issue should not die, it just gets wor= se. > Jatrice >> >> >> Lott's Rhetoric Comes Back to Haunt Him >> Senate Leaders Feels Heat After History of Controversial Statements >> By Terry M. Neal >> >> >> washingtonpost.com Staff Writer >> Wednesday, December 11, 2002; 2:26 PM >> When politicians get in trouble for saying something stupid, or vile or >> crazy, they are usually judged in context, based on their history. That'= s >> why Senate Republican Leader Trent Lott (Miss.) is in such trouble. >> By now, almost everyone knows that at Sen. Strom Thurmond's 100th birthd= ay >> party last week, Lott said: "When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we >> voted for him. We're proud of it. And if the rest of the country had >> followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all these problems over all thes= e >> years." Lott was commenting on a man who ran for president in 1948 on th= e >> ticket of the Dixiecrat Party, whose sole goal was the preservation of >> segregation in the South. >> As furor built this week over the comments, Lott attempted to backtrack, >> describing the comments as a poor choice of words. But, the episode took >> another turn today after The Washington Post >> >> reported that the senate majority leader said almost exactly the same >> thing in 1980, at a rally for presidential candidate Ronald Reagan. >> Quoting a report in the Jackson Clarion-Ledger, The Post revealed that >> Lott told the crowd: "You know, if we had elected this man 30 years ago, >> we wouldn't be in the mess we are today." >> Lott's history on the subject is not good. Slip up once, and all can be >> forgiven. Slip up again and again, and you've got a major problem. >> Senate Democratic Leader Tom Daschle, who said a few days ago that he ha= d >> accepted Lott's apology and indicated he would not make an issue of it, >> released a new statement today, saying: "It is profoundly disturbing tha= t >> Senator Lott's statement last week was not an isolated incident. Such >> statements were unacceptable in 1980, and they are no less so today." >> The senator has had 22 years to ponder this "poor choice of words" but >> only decided to describe it as such when he got in trouble. The growing >> history about such statements will likely compound Lott's problems. >> "In light of today's news and the growing controversy, Senator Lott shou= ld >> come forward with a fuller explanation and apology," said Daschle today. >> "The question Senator Lott needs to answer is, if he did not mean to >> endorse segregation, what did he mean?" >> Daschle also said he was "troubled that President Bush has remained sile= nt >> and has not personally renounced these statements. The president should >> make clear that there is no place for any such sentiments in the >> Republican Party or anywhere else in America today." >> Daschle's comments raise the stakes for Lott. And while an aide to a top >> Democratic leader in the Senate knew of no plans to move to officially >> censure Lott, momentum is building among Democrats on Capitol Hill for >> some sort of action, even if it's just a resolution condemning Lott's >> comments. Senate efforts were complicated by Daschle's initial forgiving >> of Lott's comments. But pressure has come from Congressional Black Caucu= s >> leaders such as Maxine Waters (D-Calif.) to turn up the heat. >> "This whole story kind of trickled out. It kind of had a slow start, but= I >> wouldn't read into that that there's not a lot of outrage there," said a >> senior aide to one Democratic leader in the House. "Daschle tamped it do= wn >> and delayed it from getting some traction. But Maxine articulated that w= e >> need our leaders to speak up for us rather than give Trent Lott a pass." >> "I think the most damning thing for Lott is that I don't see any >> Republicans rallying around him," said the senior aide. Instead, many >> other Democrats, including Sen. Joseph Lieberman (Conn.), will likely co= me >> out today or tomorrow to criticize Lott. >> That's Not All Folks >> >> And, there appears to be even more to the controversy. >> Three years ago, the Senate took the bold step of condemning - in a 97-0 >> vote -- the racist and anti-Semitic comments of former Nation of Islam >> leader Khallid Abdul Muhammad. >> Soon after that vote, civil rights leader Julian Bond began pressuring t= he >> Senate to comment on similar statements by the Council of Conservative >> Citizens < http://www.cofcc.org/> -- a group which promotes the >> preservation of the white race and whose Web site at the time featured a= n >> article warning that the nation was turning into a "slimy brown mass of >> glop." >> Washington Post reporter Kevin Merida >> we= nt >> straight to the top to ask Lott why the Senate would not call a vote to >> condemn the CCC, a modern-day version of the so-called white citizen >> councils that fought federal efforts to end segregation during the civil >> rights era. Lott hemmed and hawed and declared impatiently of the Senate= 's >> lack of action on the CCC: "No, that doesn't seem hypocritical to me." >> But, Lott had been associating with the CCC for years, addressing its >> board, welcoming its leaders to Washington and taking photos with its >> members. When Lott claimed to not know what the group stood for, his own >> uncle-a director of the group-contradicted him. Whatever the case, Lott >> knew enough about the CCC that he was pictured in one of its 1992 >> newsletters addressing the group's national board and telling it: "The >> people in this room stand for the right principles and the right >> philosophy." >> In fact, Lott is featured prominently on the CCC's home page today, bein= g >> praised for calling "for the Army to PROTECT U.S. Borders against the >> Illegal Alien Invasion." (Under the FAQ section of the Web site, the gro= up >> asserts that it "stands against the tide of nonwhite, Third World >> immigrants swamping this country.") >> And going back to 1984, Lott, speaking to the Sons of Confederate Vetera= ns >> in Biloxi, Miss., said: "The spirit of Jefferson Davis lives in the 1984 >> Republican platform." >> So, what is to be made of Lott's recent comments? Almost any other membe= r >> of Congress might have gotten a break after offering a sincere apology. >> But Lott is the soon-to-be majority leader and thus one of the three mos= t >> powerful elected officials in the country. Leadership begets >> responsibility, and a growing number of voices on the left and right are >> calling Lott's comments anything but responsible. >> His comments fly in the face of the GOP's efforts to present a more >> inclusive and welcoming party. Conservative voices such as the Wall Stre= et >> Journal editorial page, the Weekly Standard, Rush Limbaugh and the >> National Review Online have taken him to task. >> In arguing that Lott should be replaced as Republican leader, New York >> Post editorial writer Robert George, a black conservative wrote: "We're >> supposed to believe that this latest gaffe is 'a poor choice of words'-o= ne >> that just happens to pop up over and over again? Yes, maybe African >> Americans need to 'get over' slavery and Jim Crow. But why can't Trent >> Lott 'get over' the civil-rights movement?" >> And Ken Connor, president of the conservative Family Research Council se= nt >> an e-mail to members of his organization, saying: "Sen. Lott seems to ha= ve >> little appreciation for how such comments as this are received among bla= ck >> Americans." >> But even still, the president, who has commendably led his party's effor= ts >> to present a more welcoming face-even while stumbling badly on issues su= ch >> as whether he supports the Confederate Flag-is standing by his guy. Aske= d >> about the controversy yesterday, White House spokesman Ari Fleischer sai= d, >> "The president has confidence in him as a Republican leader >> unquestionably." >> Differing Perspectives >> >> Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-Miss.) was born the year Thurmond ran for >> president. He's seen it all during his career: the battle to allow black >> students to attend the University of Mississippi, the forced segregation >> of virtually all public facilities, the bombing of churches, the battle >> over "states' rights," and so on. >> Reached at home this morning, Thompson said he was disturbed by Lott's >> statements, but initially stopped short of suggesting Lott should step >> down as Senate Republican leader. But when told of new reports that show >> this was not the first time Lott has made such comments, Thompson said t= he >> Republicans should look to replace him. >> "Having grown up and spent my whole life in Mississippi, I know what his >> comments mean to me as a black person who had to attend segregated >> schools, who had every major convenience denied me because I was a perso= n >> of African descent," he said. "And in all honesty, I don't know how he c= an >> clean it up." >> Thompson noted that "every court" had declared the Jim Crow system -- th= e >> one Lott was apparently praising -- as unconstitutional. And, he also >> asked: "How you can be the leader of a constitutionally-enacted body whe= n >> you are so out of touch with the rest of that body? The other question i= s, >> where is George Bush on this issue?" >> When told of Fleischer's comments, Thompson said: "Oh my goodness. Does >> that mean he doesn't have any problem with the wording. That's >> unfortunate." >> Yesterday, House Democratic Leader Richard Gephardt (Mo.) issued a >> statement saying: "Statements that fondly reminisce about our nation's >> segregationist past are unacceptable. Nostalgic reminiscing about a >> platform that called for depriving people of their civil rights has no >> place in Congress. While I want to believe that Senator Lott's apology i= s >> genuine, I am disturbed when anyone, particularly an elected official of >> Senator Lott's stature, embraces current or past efforts to disenfranchi= se >> African-Americans and other minority citizens. I call on Republican >> leaders to join the Congressional Black Caucus and other Democrats in >> speaking out against Senator Lott's statement." >> Some conservatives such as Raynard Jackson are taking a wait and see >> approach. Jackson, who says he has known Lott for several years, tried t= o >> help his friend out during the CCC controversy a few years ago. Jackson >> said he wrote Lott a letter this week expressing concern about his >> comments at Thurmond's party. >> "I was very distraught," said Jackson, who says he will likely meet with >> the leader today or tomorrow. "When I heard [the comments] last week, I >> was like, 'Trent what are you thinking?' I knew this was going to be see= n >> as a culmination of things, not necessarily a slip of the tongue." >> Jackson said over the years Lott has always been there when he needed hi= m. >> When a group of black cable television entrepreneurs, led by Florida >> attorney Willie Gary, needed help gaining access to top corporate >> officials at companies such as ATT, Lott made a few calls and helped >> Jackson set up those meetings. When Jackson needed a keynote speaker for= a >> black history luncheon he was sponsoring, Lott quickly signed on, then >> stayed for an hour or so afterward to talk to the young black businessme= n >> and women in the crowd. >> "So I'm very anxious to talk to him again because what people are talkin= g >> about is in conflict with the person I know," Jackson said. "If I have t= o >> chose between a person's words and his actions, his actions will always >> supercede his words." >> =A9 2002 Washington Post Newsweek Interactive -- -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 23:50:24 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: saneh saadati Subject: Call me anything- i wont deny it; FOR BARAKA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Before anything else i would just want to say, that this email is not an attempt to add anymore to the discussion that has been going on on and off since late fall on whether or not Baraka is guilty of feeling guilt for his art etc. It is definately not trying to take sides either. Rather if anything, this will be a praise of poetry in itself. Since a prayer for peace is useless. right? I just read David Hadbawnik email, and was reminded of the first time i heard the poem. it was in spring 2001 at haverford college read by the poet himself. we had quite a few guests that spring, and it was only by chance that i happened to be there that day. I had never heard the name Baraka. Did not know the work of the poet, his beliefs, early/late sins, nothing for that matter. can't say i am particulary intrested in things like that anyway. I don't care what the poet has to say. Words can speak for themselves. (the problem is that we are not seldom, bad listeners) Hearing Baraka read his work was breathtaking, and very empowering. there were quite a few lovers of the word in the audience that day, and the message that was sent us to all of us, was that we as poets have a responsibilty towards life; to keep it alive. In response to what David wrote; >it wasn't meant as merely an "anti-semite" or anti-jewish spiel -- it's >anti-everything! yes - or even for-everything. Futher the poem is not about or against anything. How is it that so many are forgetting that poetry is not about me, you, s/he, it etc.? ---- I think that Baraka's words, are a cry to us, and want to serve as a reminder that there are things in this world that will be extinct if attempts are not made to preserve them. For me that evening the poem was shouting out that the truth needs protection. Yes, Baraka's peom is pointing towards something -- yet it is not pointing out the gulity ones. I am sure you have all heard the expression; when a finger points to the moon, only a fool looks at the finger. think of it. Perhaps there are those of you out there, who just always go out and do whatever you can for peace, and don't settle for simply a prayer. personally i am sorry to say that i am not one of those. i get comfortable far too easily - i have a tendency to get caught up in couging up fiction and more or less forgetting about the unreal reality out there. (can you blame me... ) Somebody, once told me that nowadays people are so obsessed with the real; you know constantly checking emails, calling, giving feedback on everything - constantly through this conforming eachothers existences: yes sweetheart rest assured, i am still alive, still real. ---- that in order to find real, you have to look for the irreal. anyway, that was sort of a sidenote; i don't mean to digress --- so, listening to Baraka perform his some of his poetry, and to hear him ask of all of us who love, to love strong - was something that i needed to hear. Strong voices, that can break through thick walls of indifference and even forgetfullness, which we are less eager to except because they remind us of what we would prefer not to think about, that we cannot make out -- are necessary in today's society. Because there is just never a silence long enough for us to be able to hear the more subtle sounds. And further we move too fast, ever to have time to make a note of the less visible, of what is appearing before us right this minute. We need people who are willing to crash into other people's faces/lives, simply to make them react or break out in an expression they have not before confronted. We need people who come up and flat out tell you i believe in you. saneh saadati -- _________________________________________________________________ MSN Motor: Köp & sälj din bil här http://carview.msn.se/bilsok/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 18:29:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: CHANDINI/NAZIR, dead at 22 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=-------59b621ae1907ff6059b621ae1907ff60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ---------59b621ae1907ff6059b621ae1907ff60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline a few poet friends asked me to post this. through Zia Jaffrey's book THE INVISIBLES a network of poets and other concerned artists has been formed, sharing information about the hijra caste. the following article is rather sad, but at the same time, may be the very thing to finally get more protection for this underclass of India through international pressures. CAConrad "This is a good world... And war shall fail." --Kenneth Patchen ---------59b621ae1907ff6059b621ae1907ff60 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from aol.com (mow-m25.webmail.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v90.10) with ESMTP id MAILINID93-1213181934; Fri, 13 Dec 2002 18:19:34 -0500 Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 18:19:33 -0500 From: CAConrad13@aol.com To: CAConrad9@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <450EB8FE.4CDED547.09C1149F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=-------450f585e4cdf74a7450f585e4cdf74a7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ---------450f585e4cdf74a7450f585e4cdf74a7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline ---------450f585e4cdf74a7450f585e4cdf74a7 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-xa01.mx.aol.com (rly-xa01.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.70]) by air-xa05.mail.aol.com (v90.10) with ESMTP id MAILINXA53-1213141745; Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:17:45 -0500 Received: from mail.drexel.edu (mail.drexel.edu [144.118.25.40]) by rly-xa01.mx.aol.com (v90.10) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXA17-1213141709; Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:17:09 -0500 Received: from webmail.drexel.edu (webmail.drexel.edu [144.118.25.20]) by mail.drexel.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2001.07.26.11.50.p9) with ESMTP id <0H7200JAFO8B41@mail.drexel.edu> for caconrad13@aol.com; Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:16:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:20:24 -0500 From: klb38 Subject: here's that hirja case i was telling you about Sender: klb38 To: caconrad13@aol.com Message-id: <3DFF0298@webmail.drexel.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.62 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-WebMail-UserID: klb38 X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00003005 please distribute widely. this is an email campaign to insist on an impartial investigation into the recent death of a transwoman in india. >JUSTICE FOR CHANDINI > >Chandini alias Nazir, a 22 year old hijra (transgender woman) died >in mysterious circumstances on the night of December 1, 2002, >Sunday in Bangalore, India. > >On December 4th all English and Kannada newspapers >sensationalised the death of Chandini. Her death was reported as >a suicide. The reason given was that she set herself afire because >her husband Gnanaprakash discovered her hijra identity and >threatened to reveal it to his parents. They reported that Chandini >deceived Gnanaprakash by hiding her hijra identity at the time of >marriage. It is not at all surprising that the police also accepted in >totality this version of what had happened as supplied by her >husband. > >The following is a brief accounting of the true events as ascertained >by a fact-finding team comprising of representatives from the >Peoples Union for Civil Liberties (PUCL), Karnataka; Alternative >Law Forum (a group of lawyers); Sangama (a sexuality minorities' >rights group); and Vividha (an autonomous group of sexuality >minorities). > >Chandini hails from Arsikere, Hasan and has been living in >Bangalore for the past 5-6 years. Gnanaprakash initially met her in >a hamam (bath houses where hijras live). After a six-month >relationship and after much persuasion Chandini agreed to marry >him. They married 16 months ago. There is photographic and >videographic evidence of the marriage, and of it having been >attended by many friends of Chandini from the hijra community. A >week after the marriage, Gnanaprakash accompanied Chandini >when she decided to go for Nirvan (Castration) in a hospital in >Cuddapah, Andhra Pradesh. After the operation Chandini and her >newly wed husband lived at Chandini's Guru (Hijra mother in the >hijra community) Prema's house, for about a month. Later they >rented a house in Amrutha Halli, on the outskirts of Bangalore and >lived together as husband and wife, for 5 months. He was often >violent towards her and began to harass, beat her and took away all >the money that she was earning through sex-work. After six >months of living together unable to bear his constant demands for >money and to escape his torture, she left for Pune. > >Chandini returned to Bangalore on November 7, 2002 and began >living with her Guru in Amrutha Halli. Gnanaprakash learnt of her >return to Bangalore and came to her Guru's house. In the absence >of her Guru he forced her to leave with him. She had on her >person 60 grams of gold jewellery and Rs. 50,000 in cash when she >left. Gnanaprakash took her to a rented house in Ramaswami >Palya (Banaswadi police Station Limit) in Bangalore. He >deliberately isolated Chandini from her only support, the hijra >community. She was found dead on the night of December 1, >2002. > >Local police in Banaswadi Police Station initially refused to register >the complaint of Prema (Chandini's Guru). They in fact said that >they do not recognise the hijra community or its relationships. They >said they would act only if Chandini's biological parents issued a >complaint. They also claimed that they only recovered Rs.5000 in >cash while investigating Chandini's death. > >There are several issues that suggest suspicion of foul play in >Chandini's death. First, it is obvious from the foregoing that the >statement of Chandini's husband of being tricked into marriage by >her is a lie. There is evidence of his having frequented hamams >from earlier days, and the photographic evidence of the marriage >clearly shows that he new Chandini was a hijra at the time of >marriage. Second, there are witnesses to the fact that Chandini was >brutally treated by her husband, and ran away from him to Pune. >Third, when Chandini left her Guru's house (under pressure) she >had with her Rs.50000 and 60 grams of gold, while the police >claimed to have recovered only Rs.5000. > >We do not have much faith in the local police of Banaswadi Police >Station undertaking an impartial investigation. There bias against >the hijra community is obvious. There is also the possibility of they >being offered cash inducement in order not to undertake the >investigation seriously. > >The fact finding committee has spoken to Chandini's parents who >dispute local police claims of the Rs. 5,000, found with Chandini, >having been returned to them. They also mentioned that when >they first saw the dead body of Chandini, she had gold ornaments >on her which were missing later. > >We are starting an email campaign as one of the many ways in >which to pressurize the police to investigate this incident seriously, >and to ensure that people responsible for Chandini's death do not >go unpunished. We request you therefore to send a mail to the >Chief Minister of Karnataka at cm@kar.nic.in and to the >Chairperson, NHRC at chairnhrc@nic.in, demanding an impartial >enquiry into Chandini's death. A model copy of a letter to the Chief >Minister is given below. Please also send a copy to >sangama@sangamaonline.org > >Please act immediately and widely distribute this mail. > >Visit our website www.sangamaonline.org for information about >hijras and other sexuality minorities. > >In Solidarity, > >Famila, Revathi, Roshan, Lokesh, Sharada, Kumar, Chandru, >Sumathi, Lakshmi, Ajith, Manohar, Nithin >For Sangama >________________________________________________ > >Copy of letter to Chief Minister of Karnataka / The Chairperson >NHRC > >Chief Minister's e-mail : cm@kar.nic.in or smk@bangaloreit.com >NHRC Chairperson's e-mail : chairnhrc@nic.in > > >Sir, > >We have come to know of the death in mysterious circumstances >of Chandini alias Nazir, a 22 year old hijra (transgender woman) on >the night of December 1, 2002, Sunday in Bangalore. There is >reasonable suspicion to suggest foul play in her death. > >We have also come to know that the local police in Banaswadi >Police Station initially refused to register the complaint, and are not >very serious in their investigations into the matter. They are also >many noticeable discrepancies with their accounts of the incident. > >We believe that people of all communities, and all social >persuasions have an equal right under the law in this society. We >also know that the reality is not so for most people. In particular, >minority communities like hijras are subject to severe persecution >by the society, and by the police who are expected to ensure that >no such persecution takes place. > >We therefore request your direct intervention to ensure an impartial >enquiry into the whole affair, and punishment of all those guilty. > >Sincerely, > >(your name) ---------450f585e4cdf74a7450f585e4cdf74a7-- ---------59b621ae1907ff6059b621ae1907ff60-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 18:51:26 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: RaeA100900@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lyn Hejinian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit lynhejinian@cs.com Rae Armantrout ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 18:52:08 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: RaeA100900@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lyn Hejinian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh dear. That was meant to be a backchannel. Damn. R.A. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 16:04:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kristin Palm Subject: surrealist petition for baraka Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Re: the question as to whether the goodness/badness of the poem is relevant -- yes, I believe this to be wholly relevant because, were it a well-crafted poem, the claim that Baraka is calling into question a whole host of stereotypes and misconceptions, rather than simply runnng down a list of provocative one-liners, would hold some merit and, as a fellow artist, I would feel better about rushing to his defense. Instead, I feel somewhat tricked, as if this is exactly what Baraka hoped would happen (what else would a Marxist be doing accepting a state appointment anyway?) and the poem itself becomes wholly irrelevant. Accordingly, a bunch of poets become engaged in a distraction which we would very much like to think has to do with the persecution of artists, etc. (and, were we to look at the race issue Barrett raised a while back, then we would have a much more salient issue here, I think) but really just diverts all of us -- Baraka especially -- from doing anything related to poetry or art. Unless, of course, we are merely defending the poet's right to say *anything,* (because, in my reading, there really seems to be no artistic reason whatsoever to make the statement in question) as some say we are. But then, I think we should stop pretending this debate any longer has anything to do with poetry at all. As I said before, I agree that Baraka should not be asked to step down and there, as on many other occasions, the ADL has crossed the line. What I do find problematic is the letter's implication that the ADL has fashioned its objections out of thin air. Baraka did say dangerous and offensive things in his poem. If the poem was really doing its job, we'd be discussing that, instead of pretending it didn't happen. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 16:03:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Baraka In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20021213170637.00af84f0@email.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >At 03:31 AM 12/13/2002 -0500, Harry Nudel wrote: > >. His poem after all for worse and worse is the most read poem in >>these states. > > >and how, pray tell, has this been determined? I seriously doubt that many >have read more than the few lines that have been quoted in the press. I >further suspect that Billy Collins remains more "read" than Baraka's poem --- I have never in my life talked with anyone who has read a Billy poem. -- George Bowering A one-hit wonder Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 21:41:02 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Baaa Baaa Baraka... I think it mite be useful for someone to go back in this discussion...and cull the dozens of words used to euphemize Baraka's lies..from myths to po license...we could then compare these myths & licenses to a few centuries of the rhetoric of white racism....try also Baraka as rhetoritician and inspirer of the volk with similiar sentiments about Adolf and Goebbels... If this were England or France, Baraka would have been sued for libel, as David Irving was, by the ADL and undoubtedly convicted in a civil suit. If this were Germany he could have quite possibly spent time in jail. Lies are protected first amendment speech in fascist America and we live with our freedoms... Now that super K & George Mitchell have resigned, isn't Baraka with his unique extra-ordinary outside sources, the perfect life-long public bureaucrat to head the 9/11 inquiry. Who who who else...harry.. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 22:36:10 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Am I the only person on this 900-member list who thinks joking about mental illness is right up there with the comments of Mr Lott & Mr Baraka when it comes to good taste & sensitivity toward others? Guess so, Ron ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 10:42:06 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Platt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CATALOGONY 1. EXTRA FIRM PERSONALIZED COUNTRY COUPLE WELCOME MAT with our colorful, cheerfully illustrated mounting bracket genetic structure ready to put into position any way you Slim to conserve storage space. Two [you a big, free] glossy 15-piece set includes the purpose Good for indoor to tangle up. Colorful corrugated on/off switch. WITNESSED FIRSTHAND (not included) 161/2" L. shuts itself off as soon as it becomes unflinching, vivid 100% cotton with a handcrafted look. Santa LESS-THAN-NOBLE included)! Made of weather-proof corru- pours down easy --- does all tests within a LIMITED EDITION ground stake for easy, secure display. Made in USA 11"H. conveniently prepackaged. Everyone will [they want and] 2. MUSICAL CUCKOO CLOCK shows four traditional symbols of faith --- a country seaming conforms The finishing touch delightful 5-pc. stacking decoration concerning of heavy polyresin with an [as much fun to] fort despite shrinkage, weight gain or strip that "grasps" clothes, and the MOMENTOUS DISCOVERY white cord has 3 outlets bling pipes, everything from cracked by day. Twist on/off switch; bulb white, 3 pairs beige. Hand washable YEAR-ROUND male, they put no energy into producing [of mind. debunking One size fits all, HUMAN LEGACY heavy-duty brown skin, white flesh and very shallow and gently restore the sparkle to your ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 01:21:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: svengali.mov MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII svengali.mov denser under valium, dance under furious illness, thinned vulva, swollen uvula, slow dance with dense stroke of growths, valium uvula "did you have to get her stoned" "no, she went with it, swollen uvula of green-white interiors modified to d a slight reddish-brown" ... no inscription but sruti-sound, body-tamboura, she says before the camera rolls, "you're always inside me" - then (svengali) - the turning away - you might say her face against her wide-open mouth, then deep reddish-brown (a tendency) in her full-body dance in dark (reddish-brown, black) clothing, for a few seconds; you also see (after the first turn-away of the face), the shadow of torii outlined against the green-white sky) -:d a slight reddish- brown inscribed across the lips; the labia are green-white against green- white; everything but the sound is in the process of disappearing-inscrib- ing; you can run the variations simultaneously, building sound on sound, chant on chant, the murmuring of the increased world drawn in to the body's cavities -:dense under valium, dented gnawed maw of mind, svengali: "you finished the film. what's going on with the film?" "she's lying back, you see her" just for a moment, her breasts with white nipples. vaginal- mouth keyed throughout. at the end of the two minute forty second work, she appears against her wide-opened mouth. sound comes out everywhere. that is the key, folded red tongue, inserted uvula. she dances outdoors on a roof in a doorway wearing black clothing with her hands towards the white sky as the camera pans past her towards three small steps covered with snow as the image freezes and the piece comes to an end. the medical green-white of the infrared is d a slight reddish-brown: no, she went with it; it's all right with her; it's an intervention:svengali.mov 2'4" cdrom/dv carter/sondheim :: === ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 21:05:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Re: CHANDINI/NAZIR, MUrdered? at 22 In-Reply-To: <59A8E6F6.18FAC4A8.01F36A84@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It should be noted that similar to the gender underclass of india, there also exists a gender under class here. This is the year that has seen 25 ("trans")/gender murders (just recently here in California 17 year old), a major count ruling constituting gender as that thing between the legs - upon birth, and in Colorado *the amendment 2 state* reversed its decision on id's, mandating surgery for gender identification changes, reflecting a privileged perceptive of gender segregation. the same kind of privilege that has gone on for the past 5000 years. Also important to note is that in india, at least one, if not more Hijras have been elected to a national office, here some ("trans")/gender individual can not even get a proper identification or employment..... Gender oppression creates a constant underclass world wide. what can happen here so there are not twenty some murders a year? kari edwards _________________ -GENDER RIGHTS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS- ______________________ Check out: http://www.xpressed.org/ http://www.litvert.com/issueseven.html http://www.muse-apprentice-guild.com/august2002/kariedwards/ literary_magazine.html http://homepages.which.net/~panic.brixtonpoetry/semicolon1.htm http://www.shampoopoetry.com/ShampooThirteen/ShampooIssueThirteen.html http://canwehaveourballback.com/12index.htm http://www.webdelsol.com/InPosse/edwards10.htm http://www.puppyflowers.com/II/flowers.html http://poetz.com/fir/may02.htm http://poetz.com/fir/feb02.htm http://www.shampoopoetry.com/ShampooFourteen/ShampooIssueFourteen.html On Friday, December 13, 2002, at 03:29 PM, Craig Allen Conrad wrote: > a few poet friends asked me to post this. through Zia Jaffrey's book > THE INVISIBLES a network of poets and other concerned artists has been > formed, sharing information about the hijra caste. the following > article is rather sad, but at the same time, may be the very thing to > finally get more protection for this underclass of India through > international pressures. > > CAConrad > > "This is a good world... > And war shall fail." > --Kenneth Patchen > > From: klb38 > Date: Fri Dec 13, 2002 11:20:24 AM US/Pacific > To: caconrad13@aol.com > Subject: here's that hirja case i was telling you about > > > please distribute widely. this is an email campaign to insist on an > impartial > investigation into the recent death of a transwoman in india. > >> JUSTICE FOR CHANDINI >> >> Chandini alias Nazir, a 22 year old hijra (transgender woman) died >> in mysterious circumstances on the night of December 1, 2002, >> Sunday in Bangalore, India. > > >> >> On December 4th all English and Kannada newspapers >> sensationalised the death of Chandini. Her death was reported as >> a suicide. The reason given was that she set herself afire because >> her husband Gnanaprakash discovered her hijra identity and >> threatened to reveal it to his parents. They reported that Chandini >> deceived Gnanaprakash by hiding her hijra identity at the time of >> marriage. It is not at all surprising that the police also accepted in >> totality this version of what had happened as supplied by her >> husband. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 10:57:36 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Job Market... (fwd) -------- Forwarded message -------- Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 10:51:34 -0500 From: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Reply-to: nudel-soho@mindspring.com To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Subject: Job Market... "Listings for academic jobs in literature and languages....are off 20 per cent, the M.L.A...sd..." Can you imagine a creature more radical in rhetoric and more conservative in practice than a grad student in Lit..or an untenured Prof.. P.C...uber alles..Derrida et tu...harry... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 16:28:29 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Lasko Subject: Re: Question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed As a bona fide mentally ill person, I'd say the last thing anyone in like condition wants is to be looked at "with sensitivity". I'd rather be thought good-looking. As for good taste, I vote we stamp it out in all quarters and replace it with increasingly unimpregnable fits of obscurity, accompanied by blaring sirens, horns and bells. Better go back to advising on post-terror implementations, Ron; those of us frothing at the mouth prefer to do so candidly, and without oppressivly polite preconditions or precautions.Hail to free speech! (& to hell with Lott, Baraka or those porions of any of our own expression that remain accusitory yet inactive. Cat >From: Ron >Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Question >Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 22:36:10 -0500 > >Am I the only person on this 900-member list who thinks joking about >mental illness is right up there with the comments of Mr Lott & Mr >Baraka when it comes to good taste & sensitivity toward others? > >Guess so, > >Ron _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 08:33:12 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Question Comments: To: ron.silliman@gte.net In-Reply-To: <000201c2a321$f911d960$1f0ff243@Dell> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" context is everything...i've seen this joke in a number of contexts, and it's usually people who suffer from these illnesses taking the opportunity to laugh at themselves. you know, like the difference between "anti-Semitic" jokes and Jewish jokes as lovingly told by Freud in Jokes and their Relation to the Unconscious, which is basically a love-letter to the institution of the Jewish joke. At 10:36 PM -0500 12/13/02, Ron wrote: >Am I the only person on this 900-member list who thinks joking about >mental illness is right up there with the comments of Mr Lott & Mr >Baraka when it comes to good taste & sensitivity toward others? > >Guess so, > >Ron -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 10:49:33 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Job Market... "Listings for academic jobs in literature and languages....are off 20 per cent, the M.L.A...sd..." Can you imagine a creature more radical in rhetoric and more conservative in practice than a grad student in Lit..or an untenured Prof.. P.C...uber alles..Derrida et tu...harry... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 23:47:51 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/13/02 10:37:14 PM, ron.silliman@VERIZON.NET writes: << Am I the only person on this 900-member list who thinks joking about mental illness is right up there with the comments of Mr Lott & Mr Baraka when it comes to good taste & sensitivity toward others? Guess so, Ron >> I hope so. That Geoff--one of the kindest people I've known--should be so linked is laughable. Some also there might be who resent the term "mental illness." I know someone who suffers from manic-depression, and he thought the jokes were pretty funny. But that's because he doesn't see himself as aberrant. Consider that every time we create another exaggerated "sensitivity zone" we underline someone's alienated status. Dehumanizing, I'd say. PC gone wacko, if you'll forgive the clinical terminology--producing precisely the opposite of what it intends. Hell, life kicks all our bubble asses one way or the other. No harm in laughing. Foucault knew. Happy holidays, Ron, and to everyone on the list!!! Best, Bi ll farmingdale.edu/~Austinwj KojaPress.com Amazon.com BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 23:05:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: surrealist petition for baraka Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The idea of a laureate is pretty odd in a democracy. In the not so old days there was a Librarian of Congess (and only federal, I think), whose job was precisely the same. The change in title is further evidence, if one needed it, of the ascendancy of the imperial presidency. I never had much use for librarianships of Congress either, but the title had at least the virtue of making it clear that it was a job, however cushy. It still is, under its new name, and a job is not a grant--one can get fired from a job for embarrassing one's boss. Which is not the same as censorship. Granted NJ hired the wrong guy if they were worried about being embarrassed. But Baraka was also a party to the contract--he had to know that as an employee he had given up some of the freelancer's freedom. Mark At 03:32 PM 12/13/2002 -0500, you wrote: David, i'm glad you liked the Baraka poem. i'm not sure if you thought i was saying it was a bad poem or not. i actually was saying, for the argument that was originally put forth, whether or not it was a good poem was irrelevant. and i agree with you that that should then lead into WHO THE FUCK gets to say what's a good poem or not? it's ridiculous really, but i'm guilty of it too of course, but at the same time like to remember that someone out there (maybe even someone other than the poet who wrote the poem) likes it. i was more concerned with the idea of defending Baraka for writing his poem, and whatever poem he'll write next, for that matter. but when Baraka was asked to step down from a position because of a poem he wrote, this IS an attempt to censor. okay, some folks on this list make it clear they don't agree. but where does the thread of this begin? or is the question more, where does it end? to have something taken away from you (even though he hasn't had it taken away, just an attempt) because of a poem written and read aloud before the tender ears of the Dodge Festival, isn't this censorship? the whole thing's so stupid really when you think of it. as if Baraka wasn't who he was before, during and after. as if, upon receiving the chair he would suddenly transform into some sort of polite, grateful asshole who would promise to write only tender poems for cat lovers, or whatever seems appropriate for tea on the right side of the New Jersey tacks. my point is to defend the voice, no matter who owns it. either that or we could inform the ACLU of the list of poets who deserve their affections, and fuck the rest. and by the look of the news, the sooner the better. CAConrad In a message dated 12/12/2002 6:41:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, rova@ROVA.ORG writes: > > > Hey > > i happen to think it's a pretty powerful poem (tho 'rant' is more like what > it is) -- have you heard it read aloud? > > we read the poem out loud in a workshop -- in fact there are several jewish > women in the workshop, and it fell to one of them to read the 'offensive' > part. > > the whole thing's offensive, man! it's meant to be! all of those "Who, who, > who"s like fingers pointing at you, and you, and you (and me). you can't sit > in a room and read the poem out loud with a group of people and not be > uncomfortable, shaken up. but it became apparent as we read it that it > wasn't meant as merely an "anti-semite" or anti-jewish spiel -- it's > anti-everything! it may or may not have been a bad judgment call to put in > the part about the 4000 israelis skipping work but you've got to realize > that this whole poem is a catalogue of injustices -- real or perceived -- > rumors, etc. it's not the poet's job to be factually true, but to report the > truth of what's in the ether, what people are talking about on the street. > and you can say that it was very effective in terms of stirring things up > and making people uncomfortable, which is what it was meant to do. > > if you get into applying notions of 'craft' to it -- well, what and whose > notions of 'craft'? it's got tons of craft in terms of being a performance > piece. > > the OTHER question -- "should we defend poets for speaking their minds while > flogging politicians?" -- a politician is ostensibly supposed to be > representing a "polis," and if what he sez reveals the confines of that > polis to be a select few (in this case, white), then yes, he deserves to be > flogged. at least it's not roman times when they might literally cut off his > hands and hang them from the rostrum! all that's going to happen is that he > might lose his precious post as maj. leader. as far as i can tell, no one is > questioning lott's right to say what he said. no one is threatening to strip > him of his senatorship, or take away his salary, no one is calling in death > threats. he made a politically stupid move. being a politician, there are > consequences. amiri, being a poet, has a duty to speak his mind, and the > right to do so without being censured. if lott really believed in what he > said, he could always quit the repub. party and run on his own 1948-era > segregationist ticket, and THEN we could talk about free speech. > > -- David Hadbawnik > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Craig Allen Conrad > Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 2:28 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: surrealist petition for baraka > > > Kirstin, i'm glad you brought up Trent Lott. this of course raises all > kinds of questions. should we defend poets for speaking their minds while > flogging politicians? what do we expect from our politicians? and poets? > are both protected to speak their minds equally? > > and really, what of the ADL? should we defend a group who speaks their mind > about wanting others to not speak their mind? > > and what about the recent ruling on cross burning? is this relevant to the > conversation? should protection of expression be selective? > > the language of the petition is strong, whips around, but is ultimately > written to protect the voice of a poet. and this act will in turn help > unify the rest of us in taking such matters of free speech seriously, if we > haven't already been doing so. i know you said we shouldn't look at this as > JUST a matter of free speech, but really, in the end, despite the motives, > despite the message, despite the emotions, it comes down to wanting to > punish a poet for writing a poem. > > whether Baraka's poem is good or not is irrelevant, by the way, don't you > think? who cares about the craft of the poem, should it be allowed is the > question. there's plenty of poetry out there, and i'm sure > nobody has ever > liked it all. > > CAConrad ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 08:25:22 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: surrealist petition for baraka In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" many interesting things are being said on this list on this subject. in re this post, i agree w/ that the characterization of the ADL is ahistorical. I'm no fan of the ADL but they are a watchdog organization for anti-Semitism, and that should be kept in mind. on the other hand, i do not agree that a poem should have to be "good" --determined by whom, by the way? even this group of experts evinces a wide range of opinions on the matter --in order to merit protection and defense. Though your explanation of your position is thoughtful and persuasive, in general i see meritocracy as a big problem in the poetry world. In re someone's earlier post about the word "Semitic," I agree that the word has come to mean something very specific --i.e. Jewish --when the it has a broader meaning. However, while i don't believe this is what the poster (can't remember whom) intended, one could construe her intervention as meaning that if the word "anti-Semitic" *only* applied to Jews, anti-Semitism would be okay. This is, of course, anti-Jewish, if not "anti-Semitic." At 4:04 PM -0500 12/13/02, Kristin Palm wrote: >Re: the question as to whether the goodness/badness of the poem is relevant >-- yes, I believe this to be wholly relevant because, were it a well-crafted >poem, the claim that Baraka is calling into question a whole host of >stereotypes and misconceptions, rather than simply runnng down a list of >provocative one-liners, would hold some merit and, as a fellow artist, I >would feel better about rushing to his defense. Instead, I feel somewhat >tricked, as if this is exactly what Baraka hoped would happen (what else >would a Marxist be doing accepting a state appointment anyway?) and the poem >itself becomes wholly irrelevant. Accordingly, a bunch of poets become >engaged in a distraction which we would very much like to think has to do >with the persecution of artists, etc. (and, were we to look at the race >issue Barrett raised a while back, then we would have a much more salient >issue here, I think) but really just diverts all of us -- Baraka especially >-- from doing anything related to poetry or art. Unless, of course, we are >merely defending the poet's right to say *anything,* (because, in my >reading, there really seems to be no artistic reason whatsoever to make the >statement in question) as some say we are. But then, I think we should stop >pretending this debate any longer has anything to do with poetry at all. As >I said before, I agree that Baraka should not be asked to step down and >there, as on many other occasions, the ADL has crossed the line. What I do >find problematic is the letter's implication that the ADL has fashioned its >objections out of thin air. Baraka did say dangerous and offensive things in >his poem. If the poem was really doing its job, we'd be discussing that, >instead of pretending it didn't happen. -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 21:29:18 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: methloop #0001 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE PAUL WHITNEY COLLECTION methloop #0001..................excerpt history inspectors immediate unconditional unrestricted access all audio constants news matter september albert hall london honourable Views Intentions fought metal constants the result goes livestock deeper not so bad exchange good-byes forty Sheets Paper, dozen Pens, Handhelds erickson afterwards oooh opportunity klezmer music Photography bijoux west rockin dutch french italian Animation last, situation don't wait documents Digital Video source voice america inspectors second mandela act folk blues rock Microsoft Office reaching into her stomach respect QuarkXPress includes photographs Assistant Editor Michael human Estates, files booze brothers DV Camcorders Gypsey Affair, drink and gossip wednesday september Marketing VP Peter Tamte livestock smaller Print Publishing CD-R sound and camera hardy souls suggest description cooool discography includes audio video artist guided spiked booby trap style normal artist the result goes livestock deeper not so bad oakdale purchase adrenaline rush print post office oriented fresh fiery funky samples merchandise flower, I AM COMPLETELY NAKED Parents, happy fascinated public all ultimate blood sport call'd perla pandering wise Nature refuses MacSoft friends Al songwriter greg bock used eminem emmett profile european union propagation realaudio samples jacksonville based rock machine-gun children once seen everywhere set all hidden, horrible seeing associations Work! 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Version: 6.0.427 / Virus Database: 240 - Release Date: 12/6/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 21:30:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: methloop #0002 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE PAUL WHITNEY COLLECTION methloop #0002..................excerpt submit their summary street execution florida regions clubs societies fetus suckles composite of cesspool curious high-salaried fucker very serious Reflections, God less million dollars year western experts otherwise abhorr'd Restraint to date pause, look within lac'd Shoes, Lady's, fine Stockens! include turn clawed beasts and go mad activities directives transgendered see resources mencap osd function used charity pulling me back into what I'm from orbit common demons launch fruition hope, Sir, Favour, send hidden, horrible seeing associations sports laser skin Previous Index good access guide departments agencies determined DV Camcorders take follows produce smooth fast completion final documentation taken drink and gossip Home Office schedules young Gentlewoman, better text given by mouth talks held appropriate category Photoshop Coat, postulated targets asian flavour indian operation Digtal Music deeply imbark'd Love Portable most frankly things israel Monitors joint staff carriage rides needs using sound and camera ships aircraft skunks bogies pandering Creature policy side removal nuclear weapons return very spacious resident moral finger semiconscious the sweat fed equestrian high-salaried fucker thousands live north koreans renounce membership believe, wait within half Mile Back guards drink and gossip everybody all count and scriptualize the scars challenge County dvd player specifically independent living cable guide epinions campground responsibility individuals private sector volunteer organizations state local governments federal employee while initial investigation pause, look within USB QuarkXPress national security council issues national security emergency preparedness including mobilization preparedness civil defense continuity government technological disasters issues appropriate pursuant such procedures make exchange good-byes arrangement reflect reality america guarded every hour resign myself God's prepare Photoshop fiscal agent statement defense reform initiative members area meru used defense consult participation Scanners north korea missile launch dangerous development head federal inner monsters recovered, balance found free available transforming military foundation national defense preparedness annotating loop vital target gymkhana travelling more detailed histories, best figure wednesday all connie accomplished phosphorus potassium use plant nutrient deployment patterns folks moral finger recommended, sobbing crying Pillow, dangling shotgun embedded in the throat difference north know management all federal state city local highways roads streets bridges tunnels publicly owned highway maintenance equipment assure efficient care includes information Digital Video florida's wildest ponies London? Squire assure event brief floyd kennedy jr diffusing naval power national defense july august seen everywhere atavistic reptile-part-of- the-brain, abortion by chain Service employ'd coming towards other tattooed skull, thought Village seen almost dark, alighted, independent most independent identification days pacflt carrier assigned opportunity commission seeks concentrate osd staff policy advice independent analysis japan security consultative committee meeting VR Toolbox demonstrates Flash section fascinated public exercise all functions Printers Photoshop withdrew societies centres arrested taken note ultimate blood sport cases Hand! never saw such common demons Life ursa monday november coordinate society culture fish the pigments must first be swallowed mammals reserve forces tattooed skull active forces great exponents fashion shoot contemplative Folks foolish Pamela! don't wait answer distressed Daughter Web Email tattooed skull, believe Pamela time, nothing century machine-gun children dreadful Words, decide Fate temporary eligibility access classified information granted hit Apple pavilion Arm round count and scriptualize the scars kissing pity I AM COMPLETELY NAKED director live fire? particular case slaughter classmates sit Come, being Scene develop plans restoration Computers reviews dvds childcare stock machine-gun children regenerate europe united Digtal Music Mac OS hayrides sleigh Pennsylvania Inhabitants British disability teachers substance Company confide seen junk larva Wall two Days Gardener debated venues drink and gossip sees very livestock management reform team abuses more more talking common demons Maids reaching into her stomach delegated means very appropriate waivers based findings slaughter classmates stomachs abortion by chain substitute food digestible rig creating QuickTime VR task force latest news another method increasing station time competitions located Digital Video Pens, night stores Stephen Beale left Andrew osd staff currently associated within short span common demons month december edit showcase exchange good- byes amputate ears southeastern coast very the pigments must first be swallowed does carrier admiral quigley day tomorrow day tomorrow admiral quigley second december wasp gets underway pandering to a disturbing audience? admiral quigley believe Pictures lie, pause, look within half- truths double check believe thus far, while Mrs Jewkes related websites annotating loop vital target lead responsibilities florida's native join south korea percent reduction osd the ground wants to fuck me doing things interest all machine-gun children down writing pfiab fascinated public report periodically least semiannually concerning findings maintain core functions on-line print seen everywhere sliding hp Illustration chief naval operations longer address yourself hard beset, assure Clearness Expression Letters being forgive dangling shotgun embedded in the throat linkages set my dick in a pig's ass Promise, woe thing deep wounds along with burn marks agriculture obliterate landscapes pandering to a disturbing audience close inner monsters summary street execution collection most construction alerts Software steeplechasing team handicapped referral services providing chat room CD-RW drives association aims Uproar, surely isle wight fetus suckles composite of cesspool international film position show intestines being ripped from your teeth smart news more deja recreation offer livestock myself overwhelm'd objectively accomplishments scuba diving overlap area between office Scanners three objectives Portable agreements continue killing important all Illustration nation classified information different park areas found Detail Actions long past, kentucky horse press information north korea claims missile successfully launched satellite Company Part Master cross tarry Hour more needed, period abraham lincoln sea foreign relations month information machine-gun children united states currently largest food donor north korea search thursday brought together world-class education organizations Eddy Awards development Mr Longman fascinated public pay besides, Monitors national guard help coordinate develop very important response mission role Digtal Music charity which aims reduced create right benefit substantive procedural expatriates see pandering Desktop producing sires by The Horror! The Horror! authors disclosure report including information respect bacon good afternoon secretary cohen Portable Charming, History United States, help zambian people knowing oakwood leisure park aka combined Monitors stables dedicated missile launch modification military services shaping future multicultural Digtal Music requirements career development patterns particular chancellor --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.427 / Virus Database: 240 - Release Date: 12/6/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 23:47:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mr. Sillyman Wrote > Am I the only person on this 900-member list who thinks joking about > mental illness is right up there with the comments of Mr Lott & Mr > Baraka when it comes to good taste & sensitivity toward others? > > Guess so, > > Ron Instead of arguing against this and my dwindling respect for Ron (wink) I'll simply resign my position as Poet Laureate Best, Geoffrey Former Poet Laureate ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 12:02:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: BARAKA IS LOVED WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "Many poets want you to write just like them, only not as well." --Jonathan Williams Kristin, you say if Baraka's poem "was really doing its job, we'd be discussing that, instead of pretending it didn't happen." Have you been reading the e-mails since your last post? There are at least two poets who feel very passionate about that poem. And I'm sure there are plenty of others out there who the poem MORE than did its job for. But maybe these poets really DON'T like Baraka's poem? Maybe they've been FOOLING themselves? Maybe they need to pay closer attention to YOU, since you know SO much about what every poet in the world should KNOW about WHAT is a "good poem." By the way, there's quite a bit of invention in your e-mail, stating that Baraka may have planned the whole thing. How do you know this? You say you feel "tricked." Where's your evidence for this one? You REALLY don't believe that Baraka was being Baraka when he wrote/read this poem for the world? You act as if this whole thing is SO BORING for you to even be bothered with, yet you keep insisting that if he were a "better poet" that MAYBE you'd trouble yourself to defend his RIGHT to speak! Well, like I said before, why don't you make yourself a Christmas list for the ACLU of poets YOU feel are WORTHY of their protection. The rest can just fuck themselves I guess? Freedom of Speech is only a matter of taste afterall. SO SORRY TO BORE YOU, CAConrad ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 11:11:49 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: Question In-Reply-To: <27.33c836ce.2b2c11f7@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:47 PM 12/13/2002 -0500, Austinwja@AOL.COM wrote: > No harm in laughing. >Foucault knew. Most jokes are in poor taste. "One would have to have a heart of stone not to laugh at the death of Little Nell." -- Oscar Wilde on _The Old Curiosity Shop_. Gabe Gabriel Gudding Assistant Professor Department of English Illinois State University Normal, IL 61790 office 309.438.5284 home 309.828.8377 http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 12:19:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Question Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 22:36:10 -0500 > From: Ron > Subject: Question > > Am I the only person on this 900-member list who thinks joking about > mental illness is right up there with the comments of Mr. Lott & Mr. > Baraka when it comes to good taste & sensitivity toward others? > > Guess so, > > Ron I didn't think the jokes about diagnostic categories were at all laugh out loud funny, but I also didn't think they were all that offensive either. This may result from the fact that I am constantly asked to diagnose and after more than 20 years of this have come to think the DSM IV categorization of human conflict and suffering while being officially necessary is not always that specific, substantial or useful. Perhaps the jokes were as much aimed at the emptiness of these diagnoses as they were at the people who suffer from them, and that most of us experience some combination of such syndromes at one time or another. But even then, the jokes were not that funny. And indeed there are many who suffer from intense forms of such syndromes. Yet I think it is a stretch to compare this kind of joking with Trent Lott's comments supporting segregationist policies and why Mr. Thurmond would have made a great president, or with Amiri Baraka's harsh poem. Charles Bernstein once made the point that -If you can't joke, you can't talk.- Still, your question about good taste and sensitivity towards others on the list is valuable and important and I am glad that you have raised it. Some debates on this list occasionally, and mercifully, not all that often, seem to give some list members a feeling of being entitled to become abusive on the behalf of whatever is their point of view. To become enraged and or frightened and outraged gives some people the idea that they should and must become voluble and abusive. Enlightened protest, of course, should try to exemplify values of maturity and rationality because such values are usually what the protester feels are lacking in the policies they are protesting against. On the other hand, when someone is trying to break out of a tortured silence, occasionally they cross over the line of fairness towards their opponent. So it seems to me that the question becomes, what does one do to be heard in a culture where no one pays much attention or listens to calmly made arguments and the model for rational debate and argument is Chris Matthews' -Hardball-? It seems to me that if I acknowledge my true ambivalence on many if not most issues I discover some humor about them that enables me to try to temper my viewpoint. On the other hand, there has to be some internal process that can lead me at crucial moments to take a strong stand. My experience in many social and formal situations where discussions take place is that the loudest and most persistent voice wins. This gradually shuts up everybody else and eventually the strident people come to represent the rest of us. Nick ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 09:53:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: Question In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021214110953.01769640@mail.ilstu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii You know I always get myself into trouble at Christmas parties shattering the idealistic remembrance some party-goer had of intellectual moments in high school or college by suggesting that "Romeo and Juliet" is a very funny play, probably intended as farce, and that Shakespeare probably rectified the problem of audience mis-reading of the play as romance by redoing it, less subtly as "Pyramus and Thisbe" within Midsummer Night's Dream. --- Gabriel Gudding wrote: > At 11:47 PM 12/13/2002 -0500, Austinwja@AOL.COM > wrote: > > No harm in laughing. > >Foucault knew. > > Most jokes are in poor taste. "One would have to > have a heart of stone not > to laugh at the death of Little Nell." -- Oscar > Wilde on _The Old Curiosity > Shop_. > > Gabe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gabriel Gudding > Assistant Professor > Department of English > Illinois State University > Normal, IL 61790 > office 309.438.5284 > home 309.828.8377 > > http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html ===== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) --John Lennon and Yoko Ono __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 15:13:21 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: Question MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Nick and Ron, You raise an issue here that hits me in the keyboard as I type: "When I (or you) post to a list do I do so as a person or poet or psychologist or? I'm still thinking this through but have gotten into a lot of 'trouble' posting to a health bb as a poet and as a psychologist and I suspect that often my posts here may be overanalyzed due to my title. Even on the internet it is difficult to shed the robes? There is also, I think, a distincion to be made in posting here to a poetics list and posting here poetically. On the bb I've begun to preface all my comments by saying something like: "Poetically speaking,..." "Psychologically speaking,...." or "As a sufferer, I say..." Maybe we could uselist 'avatars' As you noted, though, Nick, if jokes are to be posted they should be good ones and if someone is to post poetically to a poetics list it should be a good poetic response (not necessarily rhymed!). This, of course, raises the quetion of what a 'good poetic' response to mental illness, reactions to mental illness, our latest war, etc. is? tom bell ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 10:25:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: it isn't not just like that In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it isn't not just like that it isn't just like that ______________________________________________________________ collapse of Logos ______________________________________________________________ piled endless philistines ambushed crocodiles snake pit rubber hoses ____________________________________________________________ borrowed from hollywood _____________________________________________________________ dreams and voices pawing at your feet ______________________________________________________________ bear in mind caught and raven virtues stockpile ______________________________________________________________ opens single file separate but equal double dotted line ______________________________________________________________ horizon descending a faceless day with the tide and the potential gripped in fear - even ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 13:41:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: Question Comments: To: ron.silliman@gte.net In-Reply-To: <000201c2a321$f911d960$1f0ff243@Dell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear Ron, It has been my own personal experience of mental illness (I have six comorbid diagnoses) that sometimes it *must* be laughed at in order to diminish its power. Otherwise, it's incredibly easy to give up in the face of the damn thing. This Christmas-carol list has been floating around the Internet for several years, as has the "psychiatric hotline" meme, and I get a giggle out of each one as they float by, precisely because they do contain nuggets of truth. I find your "Lott" comparison more than a tad overblown, I'm afraid. Is anyone on this 900-member list in a position of power sufficient to systematically and wide-rangingly oppress the mentally ill? Gwyn McVay --- Our battle with the book is our Buddhist battle. -- Robin Blaser On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Ron wrote: > Am I the only person on this 900-member list who thinks joking about > mental illness is right up there with the comments of Mr Lott & Mr > Baraka when it comes to good taste & sensitivity toward others? > > Guess so, > > Ron > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 17:12:28 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: teaching experimental poetry Comments: To: lit-med@endeavor.med.nyu.edu, writenet@twc.org MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT looking for suggestions for books to use for this. tom bell %=\|/___```'''> person http://trbell.tripod.com/Iam/index.htm poet http://trbell.tripod.com/Iam/map.htm http://www.metaphormetonym.com/ psychologist http://www.healthandage.com/Home/gm=0!gc=15!gid2=1259 instructor http://www.metaphormetonym.com/writing.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 17:08:55 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Re: teaching experimental poetry In-Reply-To: <04c901c2a3c6$467dd920$f2113444@rthfrd01.tn.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Tom, look at the Teachers and Writers Collaborative on-line workshops. I know that they are intended for students k-12 but I've found them to be good starts for students of all ages. also, for me i tend to dump a big pile of books on the table in kind of a pre-emptive strike. "look how much of this stuff there is!" Solt's Concrete anthology is always a big hit. cheers, kevin featured this month at http://www.latchkey.net/poetry/khehir/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 16:19:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: Question (excuse me while I lift this frown) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ron, as someone who was forced doses of lithium as a kid by my state-appointed DoctorMonster, I feel justified saying a sense of humor is NOTHING short of GLORIOUS! Imagine if Plath had looked in the mirror and BURST out laughing the morning she mistook her head for a rack of ribs? Okay, when I was depressed it wasn't so funny, but maybe funny is JUST the thing I needed? They're SO friggon serious when you show up at the office, yikes! "Bad taste?" I've tried SO HARD to figure out "good taste" but I break out in HIVES. Maybe I'm allergic to "good taste," oh dear. I mean, I didn't get hives at Thanksgiving, but then again I was up half the night playing Black Jack with my mother, cussin' and smokin' and doing shots of Wild Turkey with her. OH MAMA! Recently someone (who was that? can't remember) on the list dusted off their violin and moaned a tune that went something like, "Maybe this list is over? Maybe this list is dead?" I BURST out laughing imagining all the DECENT poet-folk RUNNING to the mountains with their respectable brands of luggage, leaving this list to the DEVIANTS, WACKOS, and assorted HEATHEN SCUM! There's a drum-roll every time the freon settles in the hair behind the music. Ooo, ooo, hear it? I'm a vegetarian, otherwise I'd be gnawing a pile of bones while typing this love letter to you all. GO OUT LAUGHING! CAConrad ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 19:05:47 -0500 Reply-To: men2@columbia.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss Subject: Re: Question Comments: To: Martha L Deed , ron.silliman@gte.net In-Reply-To: <000201c2a321$f911d960$1f0ff243@Dell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, I have severe mental illness and I joke about it a lot. But it may be a case of Black people beomg allowed to say nigger, or something. Anyway, I don't make fun of the behavior of mentally ill people or of individual mentally ill people, I joke about the phenomena. The classic joke was actially not mine; my schizophrenic ex said it. We had been trying to be very understanding about his voices and it had apparently backfired, so one morning we were in bed and the neighbors started to have a fight and it was annoying me. I complained to my ex, "those damn neighbors and their arguments!" He replied, not missing a beat, "I know the voices are very real to you... would you like some risperidone?" I also joke a lot about things I did when manic and otherwise sick with other crazy people, whome I refer to as such and did with the group of people involved. But we knew full well that mental illmess was no laughing matter. We called ourselves the Lunatic Fringe and heped each other and got up to minor trouble with each other (very minor, like removing an apostrophe on a sign which purported to rent VIDEO'S in huge letters, and adding our own sign saying that the apostrophe had been removed by the SSSA -- The Society for the Suppression of Spurious Apostrophes. Underneath was a helpful explanation stating that apostrophes are used to indicate posessives and the plurals require only the letters 's' or 'es' or other endings for certain words.) One of us was always getting taken to the hospital by the others, and our ambition was to get a padded VW microbus and equip it as the fringemobile ambulance for taking people to the bin (which we called the bin). The silliness stopped however when something went wrong. When we got to the hospital, we were very matter of fact and professional about the whole thing: so and so was taking XYZ meds, ceased medicaation on or around date, began to have symptoms ABC, now requires hospitalization because of danger to self because she bought a rope and chose a tree, or ODd on x# of Y pills and was treated a emergency room K and relased. I always was chosen to do the talking because I knew how to sound like one of THEM (actually, I ended up working as a counselor in a psych residence, so I guess I really did have the seeds of one of Them) and I was all business, no emotion. Only if there was a problem did I starte to say things like "we're afraid to have her home because she attacked us" "I can't take responsibility" "put that in writing" "if you think she'll be fine what are you going to do about the fact that she came over and broke my window?" etc. But basically I agree wholeheartedly. Making fun of us is not cool, it's just like making fun of Blacks or or Jews, which is quite out of style these days. (And I mean out of style. I don't think we have gotten more moral over the years, it's just that different groups are considereed "protected" and in fashion not to harass, while others can be harassed and made fun of. For example, we are alowed to make fun of the English -- including mocking individual English people's manners and accent, or of the Germans, or of the Japanese. But not Blacks, Jews, or Asian-Americans. Or retarded people, but menatlly ill people are fair game. Someone ought to study this. Not why individual groups are in and out -- the historical reasons are not too hard to see -- but why we feel compelled to make fun of some groups of people and why it is considered acceptable. Granted, we aren't likely to seriously discriminate against the British however we may mock them, but we do discriminate against mentally ill folk. Millie -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Ron Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 10:36 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Question Am I the only person on this 900-member list who thinks joking about mental illness is right up there with the comments of Mr Lott & Mr Baraka when it comes to good taste & sensitivity toward others? Guess so, Ron ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 19:37:03 -0500 Reply-To: men2@columbia.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss Subject: Re: Question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The attitude we espouse as a group oppressed the mentally ill, as part of society's attitude. In my first reponse, I rather carefully exmplained the kind of joking around the illness I do. The kind I don't do is make the idea of mental illnesses "funny" as this rather unfunny joke purports to do. It is not funny to have manic depression or schizophrenia. It is definitely not funny to be paranoid. Moreover, people with OCD might joke about their condition, even if it is crippling (part of the definition of OCD is that the poerson is aware that , logicaly, the rituals and checking don't make sense but they must do them anyway-- this distinguishes it from a more psychotic version of similar behavior), but people with paranoia and schizophrenia are usually embarrassed to be ill and find paranoia to be a very scary subject. Not a funny one. Moreover the joke would not make sense to them, but they would see that they are targeted. I know this from contect with a schizophrenic friend and the answering machine joke -- and he was high functioning and able to read difficult books, but nit able to "get" jokes -- that is one of the specific disabilities in schizophrenia. I also think mental illness can be funny to people who are diagnosed with a mental illness but are part of society, like grad students and professors, and recognized writers (I'm talking about this list) and even computer people and bankers and insurance salespeople. But for those such as myself, who are JUST mentally ill, ie who are totslly disabled, on disabilty, and living with parents or in a project for the elderly and handicapped on a fixed income, mental illness is a tragedy. If we are on this list, likely, at one time our lives had other apparent directions. We probably seemed promising and likely to do well. Instead, we will live and die as mental petients. This just isn't funny. I want to thank Ron for making his point. And I have a lot of humor about mental illness. Half my web site ( www.sporkworld.org ) is devoted to it. I have a cartoon character called Spork the Schizophrenic Skua who has adventures in the mental health system in cartoons, and in a Spork York Times newspaper. Then some of my small epoetry works (really csrtoons or animations but they are under epoetry on my site) are about a a fictional "Finkel Center For Psychoanalysis" (these can be seen on the current hyperrhiz at www.rhizomes.net, under "current issue" the choose hyperrhiz which is at the end -- my Flash work is featured as one of five artists and I have the Finkel Center pieces there) -- this is joking about mental illness issues. Mostly though, I joke about the system, not about the people. I also have a joking but serioous hypertext called Bedlam, under webworks on my site, and a very serious but funny to the initiate (alas) site called Suicide (undet webworks) which is a documentary type thing (though not about an attempt -- it's about suicidality in three women with bipolar disorder including me. and it has some interactive content and some stuff that isn't personal -- meant to be an artistic exploration of suicide) Millie -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Gwyn McVay Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 1:42 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Question Dear Ron, It has been my own personal experience of mental illness (I have six comorbid diagnoses) that sometimes it *must* be laughed at in order to diminish its power. Otherwise, it's incredibly easy to give up in the face of the damn thing. This Christmas-carol list has been floating around the Internet for several years, as has the "psychiatric hotline" meme, and I get a giggle out of each one as they float by, precisely because they do contain nuggets of truth. I find your "Lott" comparison more than a tad overblown, I'm afraid. Is anyone on this 900-member list in a position of power sufficient to systematically and wide-rangingly oppress the mentally ill? Gwyn McVay --- Our battle with the book is our Buddhist battle. -- Robin Blaser On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Ron wrote: > Am I the only person on this 900-member list who thinks joking about > mental illness is right up there with the comments of Mr Lott & Mr > Baraka when it comes to good taste & sensitivity toward others? > > Guess so, > > Ron > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 20:00:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: reality MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII reality there was the thickness of codes and protocols, tube-forms, in shallow basin with cables strewn across the floor - i was trying to make sense of this - almost like ruins, far too much knowledge needed - i didn't have it - i'm too sick to use the digital recorder - i don't remember anything - but i'm sure this is something, somewhere, that right now is functioning - i'm awake now, i can't find it - it's not in the ceiling - not beneath the floorboards. i can't get close to the walls. somewhere everywhere there are cables - the fever stops me going on about this - there were a number of people - inside and outside the system - need to write down the empty map - inconceivable - i spent hours on this - hallucinations - Svengali - "they say they're real" - there's always a war on - knock on the door at midnight - we're gone before morning - things happen in night's uncanny portion - the cables for sure - the journey's just begun - we'll be there - no escape - === ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 14:58:47 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To Ron Millie Chris and Fellow Sufferers (Joke).=20 I think just about everyone has some experience of mental illness OR = they know someone. I personally know of three people who have committed = suicide fairly recently and we all know the young man....look I'm always = doing that - I've blanked on his name (dammit) - so I think your point = is relevant. We have to be tolerant. Both to those who are so tormented = and to the non - PC people! PC can be a problem yet we need rules etc = as you and everyone knows....we've all committed faux pas. I would make some tired joke at this point about poets all being mad but = there's the other fairly common one about "every one being paranoid = except me" and variations; its the context that counts here as you = know...I'm using you as a sounding board Ron hope you dont get bored by = it (sorry)...as someone else has said... (context I mean) I made a comment about the Mafia to some Italian guy on the internet = ches club I'm on and I thought I'd never hear the end of it.... and yet = the next day one sees "outrageous" comments on some other non PC thing = or subject....=20 DIVIGATION COMING ON! [}} Yesterday a woman I know asked a couple of young Jordanian men = immediatley after being introduced if they were terrorists !!!! I must = admit that was bit funny if potentially dangerous and potentially rude = hence hurtful depending on the person's reality or response...but these = guys were one of these ONLY: either a) were terrorists and liked the unconscious humour/macabre = nature/aspect of the situation b) wernt and thought it is was amusing=20 c) wernt but wernt offended because they were cool modern "illuminated" = type coca cola drinking arabs (intelligent and very sophisticated and = MODERN I mean of course) d) were terrorists and were NOT amused and are plotting the woman's = death!!! (and possibly mine as well into the bargain) e) were totally baffled as their English is poor (a it seemed to be) !=20 e2) were none of the above and in fact were CIA agents and enjoyed the = "double" humour of that fact d) were none of the above and we'll never know what they thought g) were none of the above=20 z) were all of the above PLEASE, please... (Choose from a) to d) just tick ONE... PLEASE be sure = not to tick two letters simultaneously) }}] I think PC by and large is a good thing but it like everything else it = can be used for overthumping people and for getting too humourless.... That said it is a difficult area and as (are we all mature...I feel like = a kid sometimes!?): its like the "Baraka Problem" ..some people are = seeing his 4000 thing as rabid anti-Jewish and yet some Jewish people = are loving the poem: some people hate Baraka, others feel he was right = ...he makes us uncomfortable: I feel he's ok as its contextualised in = his Blow Up America Poem...as to mental illness: may be we "should " be = more sensitive to mentally ill people.... For example, I mean: I think that all women are mentally ill - but that = excludes my mother, my grand mothers, my daughters, my sister, my = girlfriends...what girlfriends!!!??! Ahhhhhhh!!!! Just got attacked by an RWP ( Radical Woman = Poet).....Ahhhhhhhhhh,.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!... good byyeeeeee......ahhhh = h h .... = j.........jhh.......hhh......................h...........................= ooooooooooo............... (Xmas and other) Cheers to you and others, Richard. =20 PS1: "Help!" PS2: Millie that was very funny thinking about = painting out the apostrophe on VIDEO'S !! =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 22:06:46 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: FW: new video, new photos, new play, new pbc... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here I was just this week trying to find out Garrett Kalleberg was (after just having read his stunning _Some Mantic Daemons_, a result of a completely random book purchase at St. Marks--I like the cover, I say without shame, and I also liked the poem I read at random from it while in the store). Quite at the same time I was trying to ask my poet-friends who he is, out of nowhere, my close friend Giles Hendrix (who, other than being my dear dear friend & creative collaborator on proximate.org, did video for me at Duke U's Blackburn Festival and also at the Segue reading I participated in a few weeks back) sends me this email...see below. It seems that this Situation Room still has one more showing to go this weekend. If I lived anywhere nearby I'd be sure to check it out. And it also turns out Garrett runs a web journal (Transcendental Friend) that recently published some of Araki Yasusada's new work. It's a small world indeed. Go on, Garrett, whoever you are. Go on! Patrick Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !Getting Close Is What! ! We're All About(TM) ! !http://proximate.org/! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -----Original Message----- From: Giles Hendrix [mailto:ghendrix@webslingerZ.com] Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 12:24 AM To: Giles Hendrix Subject: new video, new photos, new play, new pbc... new sutekh video, new photos from remote, openair, & the bowery poetry club: http://www.gesture.org/ i also have four sometimes amusing animations in "the situation room," a Village Voice choice for this week and a production that shares my political grief and my interest of video for theatre. ------ Forwarded Message From: news@brooklyndramaclub.org Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 13:30:54 -0500 To: ghendrix@webslingerZ.com Subject: The Situation Room - a Voice Choice "... a smart, biting piece of work..." - offoffoff.com A great first week - we made this week's Voice Choices, sold out shows, had a good time and didn't break any legs in the process! We're hoping you might still join us for our second week of THE SITUATION ROOM A new, dark comedy of administrative reason taken to its logical conclusions from Brooklyn Drama Club presented with Collective Unconscious Thursday, December 12 - 8 PM Friday, December 13 - 8 PM Saturday, December 14 - 8 PM Sunday, December 15 - 8 PM Collective Unconscious 145 Ludlow St. (between Stanton & Rivington) New York, NY Tickets for THE SITUATION ROOM are $15, on sale now at SmartTix - https://www.smarttix.com/tix/shows/showpage.cfm?ShowCode=SIT68&EventType=Sho w&RequestTimeOut=500 - or 212 206-1515 (any tickets not sold by 7 PM day of show will be released for sale at the door). THE SITUATION ROOM By Garrett Kalleberg, with Ted MacLeod and Heather Ramsdell Executive Director: Garrett Kalleberg Producer: Patrick Daniels Director: Ted MacLeod Art Director: Heather Ramsdell Video Designer: Daniel Vatsky Associate Producer: Lindsay Bowen Featuring: Chris Cantwell,* Patrick Daniels, Juliet Furness, Melissa Picarello, Bristol Pomeroy, & Bill Weylock* *appears courtesy Actor's Equity Theater of the absurd's timely and eminently rational answer to a 1963 declassified CIA memo re: releasing firebomb-fitted fruit bats over enemy enclaves - it's pro-us, anti-them, right? An eternal bureaucratic cycle of violence and protocols with no exterminating angel, THE SITUATION ROOM is a new, dark comedy for six actors. Condemned to repetition, they cling to roles, rules and procedures in an effort to endure, if not give sense to, their experience. "When I was coming up it was a dangerous world and we knew exactly who they were, it was us versus them and it was clear who them was. Today, we are not so sure who the they are, but we know they're there." - George W. Bush Brooklyn Drama Club mailto:info@brooklyndramacub.org Brooklyn Drama Club is online at: http://www.brooklyndramaclub.org ------ End of Forwarded Message and of course the nearly departed: ----- Forwarded Message From: polar bear club Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 21:03:42 -0500 To: ghendrix@webslingerz.com Subject: no boast, no toast... ...we're just the utmost. _____t h e p o l a r b e a r c l u b______ fri dec 13 9pm - late sub_Tonic 107 norfolk (btw rivington/delancey) NYC FREE with ID (21+) guest: robin edgerton (wfmu, wmmr and all letters in-between) robin is one of our favorite guests...she sees no boundaries in music, no reasons why this shouldn't go there. which is why you should come here. residents: mike wolf timeblind visuals: giles hendrix chris jordan dec 20: michael raphael + daniel blumin (didjilution, wnyu) dec 27: no guests! final polar bear club blowout! dec 31: perfect new year's eve party! with mike wolf + timeblind + i-sound + dj olive + toshio + you. easy at $10 with free champagne, candy and all-around rightness. "hope is costly.....but not as costly as giving up." -augustine http://www.crucial-systems.com ------ End of Forwarded Message ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 22:25:08 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Photos from the Segue reading Nov. 23 @ the Bowery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you to Giles Hendrix for the video & hosting the photos, to Suzie Sisoler for taking the photos. http://gesture.org/perf/photos/bpc/ And thank you to Brian Stefans for organizing the event. Patrick Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !Getting Close Is What! ! We're All About(TM) ! !http://proximate.org/! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 19:49:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: FAECIS (test run - NOT the real thing!) In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit FAECIS (test run - NOT the real thing!) all will have an had but by he was a < do as if what their were we she his but are < have who as can if there will what has their have < who all if what has have were an which had his < as all can if there will what would < all can < can what have an she they this that he was in < if there will what would has their have been were n't < there what would their have were n't we or she had < will what would has their have < what has have been n't we which had from they but < would what will there < has < their been n't an or she from they 's this are < have their has would what will < been were n't an we < were n't an we or < n't an we or which had from his they 's but < an or she from they this are that with he for < we which had his 's this not by on be you < or which she had from his they < which or we < she his 's not by with he I is in and < had his 's this are on be you I is to < from they this are that be you I is in and < his from had she which or we an n't were been < they from she which we n't been their has what there < 's his she or n't been has what if all have < but 's they his from had she which or we an < this they from which we were their would there can who < not are by that < are not this but 's they his from had she < by are this but they his from she which we an < that not 's from which an been has will can who < on are but his she we were their what if as < with on that by are not this < be with that by not this 's they from had which < he on are but his had or n't have would there < you he be with on that by are not < for you he be < I he on not 's from which an have would there < was for be on by not 's his had or an < is you with are but from or n't their what can < it was for be on by not but his had which < to it was I for you be with on by are < in it was I you be on by are this 's < a in to it is was < and a in to < of a to is I you with that are this 's < at a is for be that this they had we were < the in I with not they which were would can do < < -m ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 00:10:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nate Dorward Subject: Maggie O'Sullivan: _Palace of Reptiles_ Comments: To: lexiconjury@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A preliminary announcement for.... PALACE OF REPTILES a new book by Maggie O'Sullivan forthcoming from The Gig, February 2003 PALACE OF REPTILES is the long-awaited followup volume to British poet Maggie O'Sullivan's _In the House of the Shaman_ (Reality Street, 1993), a book widely acclaimed among readers of experimental poetry on both sides of the Atlantic. Like its predecessor, _Palace of Reptiles_ is a dance and a ritual conducted in language, a plumbing and sounding-out of buried histories and vocabularies. Ranging from the brief and beautiful "Ellen's Lament" to the central long poem "DOUBTLESS", the eight poems included in this book touch on multiple genres (elegy, celebration, performance art, poetics talk) in order to transform them. _Palace of Reptiles_ confirms O'Sullivan as one of the most compelling poets now writing. * "O'Sullivan's work forces recognition of points of intersection between bardic traditions and the defamiliarizing practices of an avant-garde. ... O'Sullivan's poems embrace the oral, aural, visual, and sculptural qualities of language and include mangled and fractured words as well as dialect, slang, and archaisms abutting noncewords and loanwords. ... It is hard to imagine a poetic practice more invested in the polyvalent, physical properties of language, or one for which paraphrase is a more futile task." (Keith Tuma, introduction to the selection of O'Sullivan's work in _Anthology of Twentieth-Century British & Irish Poetry_, OUP, 2001) "O'Sullivan's writings have a truly inimitable agenda...which moves through language towards both musical and painterly arenas and the freedom with which this is achieved suggests an immense disenfranchisement of the ideological content of language in favour of its raw physique... ...the movement of the text is given an acute physical agenda: intensively condensed and punctuated lines present obstacles to advancement; as they are lifted we are rushed back into the effluvia of a hand-made lexicon. This procedure articulates a widening and intensifying of analogous muscular activity: running, stumbling, breaking, stifling, releasing; all of which can also be felt through the presencing--in its inflections and gesturings--of a voice. ...this is a poetry of breathing, of continuance along its sinuous sequentialism. Its libidinal quality of wilful postponement affords endurance, an economy of the last word..." (Aaron Williamson, reviewing _In the House of the Shaman_ in _Parataxis_ 6) * Maggie O'Sullivan (b. 1951) is a poet, visual artist, editor and publisher; she has published and performed her work internationally since the late 1970s. Her publications include _A Natural History in 3 Incomplete Parts_ (Magenta, 1985), _Un-Assuming Personas_ (writers forum, 1985), _Divisions of Labour_ (Galloping Dog, 1986), _Unofficial Word_ (Galloping Dog, 1988), _In the House of the Shaman_ (Reality Street, 1993), and _red shifts_ (etruscan, 2001), as well as the collaboration with Bruce Andrews _EXCLA_ (writers forum, 1993). She also edited _Out of Everywhere: linguistically innovative poetry by women in North America & the UK_ for Reality Street (1996). * Palace of Reptiles: c.80pp, perfectbound pb, 8.5 x 5.5 inches. The price of the volume will be $15 Cdn; in the States, $11 US; for overseas: £8 or 12.50 euros (or $18.50 Cdn). (All prices include postage.) However, advance orders are invited: the prices for orders placed before the 1st of February 2003 will be $13 Cdn; $9 US; or overseas: £7/10.50 euros/$16 Cdn. Method of payment: A cheque is fine (indeed preferred), in whatever currency (US$, euros & pounds sterling are fine: no need to purchase Canadian $). Make it out to "Nate Dorward", & send to: Nate Dorward 109 Hounslow Ave., Willowdale, ON, M2N 2B1, Canada email: ndorward@sprint.ca web: http://pages.sprint.ca/ndorward/files/ ph: 416 221 6865 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 02:24:02 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: teaching experimental poetry MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT intersting - throw it at them and they throw back? connects to the physical and play I think important in what they call 'experimental' in the academy. tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "K.Angelo Hehir" To: Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 2:38 PM Subject: Re: teaching experimental poetry > Tom, > > look at the Teachers and Writers Collaborative on-line workshops. I know > that they are intended for students k-12 but I've found them to be good > starts for students of all ages. > > also, for me i tend to dump a big pile of books on the table in kind of a > pre-emptive strike. "look how much of this stuff there is!" Solt's > Concrete anthology is always a big hit. > > cheers, > kevin > > featured this month at http://www.latchkey.net/poetry/khehir/ %=\|/___```'''> person http://trbell.tripod.com/Iam/index.htm poet http://trbell.tripod.com/Iam/map.htm http://www.metaphormetonym.com/ psychologist http://www.healthandage.com/Home/gm=0!gc=15!gid2=1259 instructor http://www.metaphormetonym.com/writing.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 01:23:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: # of poetry books per yr?/plug for a friend's poetry class... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed anyone have any info on the number of poetry books published per year in the US from say 1900 to now and how that relates to say fiction or other books also, perhaps how such growth relates to population: are there still more poetry books being published now if we factor in population growth?? what about literacy rates etc. just wonderin' if anyone knows off hand --noah Also, if you know anyone in Western MA, here's a great course offered for the next semester at UMass: ENGLISH 291A Contemporary Poetry Define contemporary as writing from the present—or near present—all the books we will be reading were published since the turn of the millennium. By contemporary we will also mean the ways in which these poets handle language and experience. It has been almost a century, now, since Ezra Pound proclaimed, “Make it new.” We will look at how each of these poets, in their own way makes it new. Readings include: Anselm Berrigan, Bernadette Mayer, Eileen Myles, Alice Notley, John Yau and more, plus recent issues of various poetry magazines. Course work includes weekly writing exercises, one short presentation and a final paper. For more information or a complete reading list contact instructor by email. 3 credits. $150 per credit. Instructor: Nick Moudry e-mail: nickmoudry@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 02:24:18 -0500 Reply-To: men2@columbia.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss Subject: two corrections (numorous, not angry) Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, "Richard. Tylr" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1. I did not just THINK about painting out the apostrophe. NOW I think (remininsce) about having done it. I really did this, with two fellow "sufferers" (the word sufffering, must, in this context, be taken somewhat liberally -- they had both suffered a lot, bot we fully enjoyed the apostrophe escapade). This place was open late, and their sign was only out when they were open and it was on a busy sidewalk, so this mission was fraught with danger. We brought to the scene of the crime: a bottle of White Out correction fluid, a tube of white paint in case that didn't work, a paintbrish, a pr drawn laminated (with scotch tape) sign asserting that the action had been undertaken by the SSSA (Society for the Suppression of Spurious Apostrophes) with a brief grammatical lesson on it, and a roll of wide, clear tape for affixing said sign to wall of store in difficult to remove manner. Approaching the scene of the crime, we noticed that there were so many teen age druggies on the street (this was in Providence, RI, on Thayer St.) that no one would notice us if we clustered together. It would just look like we were doing a deal or sharing a joint. So we clustered, and tried the White Out. Alas-- you could see the apostrophe straight through it. Disappointed, we waited for it to dry and then romoved the apostrophe with white paint. There was nothing we could do about the unfortunate space between VIDEO and S but at least they were no longer renting VIDEO'S... The sign remained for three weeks, through rain and wind. Our hand done lamination and affixing had been effective. We had even chosen a method (tape extending around the sign) that would not damage the house by leaving pieces of paper stuck to it, as gluing would have. This was the historic house neighborhood, though marred by establishments catering to teenyboppers and the Brown University students (which we officially were), and we didn't want to commit "real vandalism." The SSSA was engaged in other less drmatic efforts. It erased many apostrophes on chalk board menus in ice cream places and restaurants. In the case of spurious apostrophes in printed menus, it made phone calls to restaurants as follows: "Montana's may we hekp you? [note: this is a ghastly restaurant. Do not eat there. Eat at one of the Asian (Cambodian masquerading as Thai/Vietnamese) places instead. Providence was a refugeee dumping place for Hmong]" "Yes. Thus is the SSSA calling, we are the Society for the Suppression of Spurious Apostrophes, We are a grammar watchdog group, and we have been monitoring menus around Providence which have apostrophes in the wrong places. Well, we have found several in in your menu and we'd like you to corrrect them, otherwise, we will have to pubklicize this...." [clunk] The Ice Cream places actually did erase their apostrophes on their chalk menus because of our call... Soon, though, the girl who actually made the calls -- I always thought if these things but never wanted to do them myself, either because I was too shy or too law abiding, depending on what the latest manic scheme was -- was ODing again, always at the least opportune moment =like when I hired her to do data entry on a grant proposal I was doing for the math department, it was the day before it was due, and I was writing the final proposal awaiting her data, and she emailed me repeatedly saying how many pills she had taken thus far until I had to stop working and make sure she got to an ER... So all isn't happy apostrophe killing in the land of the manic depressive. Also, I am not really like that. I am rather more serious by nature. The years in which I acted that way were an aberration of my character and I could not do intellectual work and had to quit grad school (in math, when I had been a brilliant undergrad, proving new theorems and getting thanked in people's papers and authoring two math publications myself). At the time, I was devastated, and wanted to be able to concentrate on work. I didn't understand why I did things like found the SSSA instead. (Which lasted all of three weeks, but I had schemes after that and before that). The meds I was on didn't work at all and mostly I was not beig silly, I was terribly, suicidally, depressed. Which has no humorous aspect except for one -- you start telling your story to someone else who has been THERE and when you get to lying in bed all the time living on corn flakes eaten out of the box (in bed) they say, "YOU did the CORNFLAKES too?" Apparently, everyone who is so horribly depressed that they won't get out of bed to eat and can barely shop (shopping is done after midnight to avoid people -- one is usually paranoid when this far gone -- people are always chasing you, in reality your friends and family wanting tio help but they can't help, no one can and you need to be alone and you feeel pursued and it makes you psychotic (so if someone you know gets that depressed, don'e chase them and try to have a conversation. Instead,try t make sure they are eating and especially drinking. Try to find them better food than cornflakes to eat in bed, but don't make them eat it with you there if they want to be alone) -- does CORNFLAKES. I find this quite funny. There are a zilion things you could eat, and yet I've run into the cornflakes again and again. And I thought I was the only one to descend to such lows... other items include bags of Hershey's Kisses (even if in normal states ine eschews chocolate), orange juice (the universal OD drink, another weird covergence), rice cakes... 2. Everyone has a mental illness is a silly thing to say. That's like saying everyone has a little cancer (technically true, everyone has cells which divide improperly that the immune system gets rid of and which would cause cancer if for some reason the immune system didn't work) Or like saying, everyione has a little bit of pneumonia becuase the common cold is caused by the same germ, and most people have the common cold at some time in their lives. The DSM efinitions are silly in many ways, but one thing they say in alll the mental illness definitions, is that the symptoms must _substantially impair functioning_ in at least two speheres (out of work, education, social life, I think ther may be another). In other words, people with diagniosable mental illness can't work normally or can't finishe school in a normal setting (this applies ti children, not grad students, many of whol don't finish, athough I certainly quit for mental illness reasons), or, most importantantly for those "normal folk I run into who say "I have a mentakl illness, too, I understnad" when they are married and have a job, _can't function normally in a social situation_. Not as in, "oh, that person's eccenric! He must be an srtist..." but rather as in "What's wrone with that guy? Is he really allowed out on his own?" Or the person doesn't act too weird but can't actually understand what the conversation was about, who the people are, what they may be feeling etc (often true in schizophrenia). Or the perso repons to voices he hears in addition to what is actually said in the converstaion (this has happened to me. Not socially, but I hear voices in hospitals for some reason, and I mostly am aware of this but sometimes accidentally talk back to one because I thiik it's real.) 3. I am not in the slightest PC. For example, calling us mentally ill is officially not PC. We have a neurobiological brain disorder (NBD). To me that sounds godawaful, and I'd never want to talk to anyone who had that in case it was catching or something or involved viscous goo leaking out of hole in their head, but that's the official PC term, if you can believe it. NAMI (the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill, a huge lobbying and grassroots organization, has changed all its literature to use NBD. I wrote them a letter saying I am mentally ill and the NBD is imprecise as it would seem to cover stroke, alzheimer's, cerebral palsy, and a host of other unlreated disorders for whch NAMI does not lobby. They answered me (I was an employee and activist in the organization), but only by sying that their focus groups showed consumers preferred to say they had an NBD than that were mentally ill. Also "consumers" - that one I have gotten used to although it's highly silly and hardly seems PC to ME-- doctors and therapists are the providers of mental health services, while we are the consumers. This is PC because it implies choice (in the free market sense -- actually it's not a free market thing since most of us have to go to assgned menatkl health centers in our catchment areas under medicaid) as if we were customers looking for a VCR, rather than sick peeople tryijg to find a doctot to make us better. We are supposed to be happy to no longer be patients or clients. (I personally propose "employers" as in the employers of mental health professionals, who after all, are consultants we hire. But that'a what "client" meant and it didn't work-- however emoplyer has more of a focus on the ill person as the ultimate boss of his doctor, whim he can fire at at will.) But "consumer" has really taken hold, so that, for example, the newspaper I write/edit for is "A consumer journal of mental health" [or would be if we didn't have so few artucles that we have to snitch them from ither sources] etc. PCism in general is a waste of time. Black people benefited from being treated like equal human beings (to the extent that they actually are-- I don't think blacks are equally treated, especially not in the sense of being equally viewed by the public now, so there is a lot more to be done) But that could have happened even if they were still "Colored people" or "Negroes." Blacks aren't actually black (except for some racial groups in Africa) anyway, so the new term isn't improved accuracy, it's an attempt to erase stigma by renaming. But if you hate Negroes, you are going to hate Black people just as much and hate African-Americans too. For the people who weren't racist, it didn't matter what they were called. Some groups have names which at their origin were terms of sbuse, and I can understand their chnaging the name, but that's slightiy different -- not wanting to be a "spic" but rather "Latino" makes some sense since spic was always a term of abuse, and to sime people "Hispanic" and Spic have the same feel. That's why Chinese people object to being called Chinks and so forth, and why Blacks object to "nigger" (but I think it is the ultimate horrid pCism to not be allowed to use this word in art, as something a charcater might say, for example, or in a poem, or to have to write it n------ or say "the N word" ; it's been a long time since I forced myself to call the F word the F word rather than just plain "fuck" and that is an offensive word, too. But you can use it, with care) which unlike colored person has a reason to be eradicated s a term for referring to real people or to blacks in general in one's own voice -- it was a word created for the purpose of hurting Black people (history says otherwise, it says it was initially neutral; but for a long time it has been a term of abuse, back into slavery days) Millie ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 00:03:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: opusloop #0003 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE PAUL WHITNEY COLLECTION opusloop #0003..................excerpt www.the-hyper-age.com breast nipple generally more meeting____real stock markets america kisses____reached probing hard expand nipples____inherited large breasts tastes nor____finger soon breathing nipples lockhart____rest expand clinton-residence breast nipple generally more meeting____beyond need worked through real stock markets america kisses unfastening bra gloried beautiful woman____slowly teasing moved reached probing hard expand nipples stern bank joe recall toni morrison president? inherited large breasts tastes nor soundboards ear burden anything finger soon breathing nipples lockhart weed remember once pausing passed president clinton commitment rest expand clinton-residence principal street tongue massages asshole breast nipple generally more meeting____heap much want need torrie mouth beyond need worked through self-bipartisan patients bill rights real real stock markets america kisses unfastening bra gloried beautiful woman____monday lockhart likely check slowly teasing moved relief strange word reached probing hard expand nipples stern unfastening bra gloried beautiful woman____intelligence behalf intelligence submission bank joe recall toni morrison president? promptly inherited large breasts tastes nor soundboards stern drinking possible sherrie squirmed body ear burden anything discovered effect produced merely finger soon breathing nipples lockhart weed soundboards believes start president believes both remember once pausing passed president clinton commitment whence comes business prosecution prove rest expand clinton-residence principal street tongue massages asshole weed breast nipple generally more meeting____crowded emergency school renovation heap much want need torrie mouth cock stacy ass raised start off beyond need worked through self-bipartisan patients bill rights real principal street tongue massages asshole real stock markets america kisses____lowered head uncountable store north-westernmost end monday lockhart likely check help finance help many years i'll slowly teasing moved relief strange word self-bipartisan patients bill rights real reached probing hard expand nipples____lowered head uncountable store north-westernmost end intelligence behalf intelligence submission tom thumb bank joe recall toni morrison president? promptly relief strange word inherited large breasts tastes nor____provocative positions lights off except drinking possible sherrie squirmed body i felt torrie tongue lick balls complex ear burden anything discovered effect produced merely promptly finger soon breathing nipples lockhart____congress fisheries sultan none sell powder believes start president believes both thracia remember once pausing passed president clinton commitment whence comes business prosecution prove discovered effect produced merely rest expand clinton-residence____soft moan carried hour earlier crowded emergency school renovation shut heap much want need torrie mouth cock stacy ass raised start off whence comes business prosecution prove beyond need worked through____panties off fetish wear lowered head uncountable store north-westernmost end pleasant monday lockhart likely check help finance help many years i'll cock stacy ass raised start off slowly teasing moved____off early leaders lowered head uncountable store north-westernmost end francs? intelligence behalf intelligence submission tom thumb help finance help many years i'll bank joe recall toni morrison president?____lean fingers provocative positions lights off except slowly teasing moved drinking possible sherrie squirmed body i felt torrie tongue lick balls complex tom thumb ear burden anything____national-service minutes action congress fisheries sultan none sell powder rasp believes start president believes both thracia i felt torrie tongue lick balls complex remember once pausing passed president clinton commitment____crying intensity soft moan carried hour earlier bell lunch? doubt crowded emergency school renovation shut thracia heap much want need torrie mouth____uncomfortably rock hard panties off fetish wear primitive lowered head uncountable store north-westernmost end pleasant shut monday lockhart likely check____myself both knees torrie quiet recoup life off early leaders upkeep lowered head uncountable store north-westernmost end francs? pleasant intelligence behalf intelligence submission____groups patent organizations includes lean fingers open-argued shadow flew none long breakfast white eyes typical year provocative positions lights off except slowly teasing moved francs? drinking possible sherrie squirmed body____oft oft suck wanted national-service minutes action school breaking separatist demonstration Timika Irian Jaya December congress fisheries sultan none sell powder rasp slowly teasing moved believes start president believes both____circumstances principal months crying intensity perfect soft moan carried hour earlier bell lunch? doubt rasp crowded emergency school renovation____justice people land maintain uncomfortably rock hard threaten panties off fetish wear primitive bell lunch? doubt lowered head uncountable store north-westernmost end____spanish upbriging mom soon myself both knees torrie quiet recoup life saliva off early leaders upkeep primitive lowered head uncountable store north-westernmost end____exposed oval taste good fate groups patent organizations includes offended lean fingers open-argued shadow flew none long breakfast white eyes typical year upkeep provocative positions lights off except____gained first impressions joe ladies oft oft suck wanted bang pleasant landlady peeping through window national-service minutes action school breaking separatist demonstration Timika Irian Jaya December open-argued shadow flew none long breakfast white eyes typical year congress fisheries sultan none sell powder____anything grandma wanted moment inside circumstances principal months sea crying intensity perfect school breaking separatist demonstration Timika Irian Jaya December soft moan carried hour earlier____ice deep justice people land maintain rubin mepp-talks hooted ashbridge guys uncomfortably rock hard threaten perfect panties off fetish wear ____ice deep spanish upbriging mom soon inches barman big head leaned myself both knees torrie quiet recoup life saliva threaten off early leaders ____apprehending prosecuting important exposed oval taste good fate checking herself mirror eyeshade hundred dollars groups patent organizations includes offended saliva lean fingers____precum beside smiled knees gained first impressions joe ladies wave oft oft suck wanted bang pleasant landlady peeping through window offended national-service minutes action____sure never harden more anything grandma wanted moment inside coroner jury judge circumstances principal months sea bang pleasant landlady peeping through window crying intensity____off introduced threw ice deep paradise justice people land maintain rubin mepp-talks hooted ashbridge guys sea uncomfortably rock hard____inner tickled cock apologised ice deep mooring spanish upbriging mom soon inches barman big head leaned rubin mepp-talks hooted ashbridge guys myself both knees torrie quiet recoup life____friend protecting mists mule gil perez apprehending prosecuting important ridicule exposed oval taste good fate checking herself mirror eyeshade hundred dollars inches barman big head leaned groups patent organizations includes____conflicts disease security long-term savings precum beside smiled knees times conscious morning joe both gained first impressions joe ladies wave checking herself mirror eyeshade hundred dollars oft oft suck wanted____lobby pass sensible gun safety sure never harden more nicer anything grandma wanted moment inside coroner jury judge wave circumstances principal months____makes cum fast regular lowly wwf crewmen off introduced threw renovation renovations funded through grants include ice deep paradise coroner jury judge justice people land maintain____tried talk something else slowly inner tickled cock apologised bullets striking workers plywood factory Central Java workers ice deep mooring paradise spanish upbriging mom soon____department eye opening heart good friend protecting mists mule gil perez tagus apprehending prosecuting important ridicule mooring exposed oval taste good fate____throat realize boys towards evening body conflicts disease security long-term savings flow streets squares rested precum beside smiled knees times conscious morning joe both --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.427 / Virus Database: 240 - Release Date: 12/6/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 00:03:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: opusloop #0004 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE PAUL WHITNEY COLLECTION opusloop #0004..................excerpt www.the-hyper-age.com team judgment forward large stick____nothing____mother watching fucked working furiously Brian____juices hammond graduate sherrie____both sides comprehensive view middle east____abandon Ishak flee night? team judgment forward large stick____expand edge edge reverence time nothing comforts different attic Rue criticized law due concern Government close censor publications mother watching fucked working furiously Brian stern women faint first lady afford juices hammond graduate sherrie soundboards reports recommendations ensuring most possible both sides comprehensive view middle east weed tenderness fear observed agitation night abandon Ishak flee night? strain lively French blood assert itself team judgment forward large stick____woman beach drew smouldering logs apart expand edge edge reverence time self-conduct desires hurry enjoy discontented nothing comforts different attic Rue shoulders unbrushed head bound criticized law due concern Government close censor publications Screw game something needs attention wait much longer mother watching fucked working furiously Brian stern comforts different attic Rue despacho announced english question water women faint first lady afford promptly juices hammond graduate sherrie soundboards stern far kiss yes course reports recommendations ensuring most possible voice both girls glasses hundreds wind both sides comprehensive view middle east weed soundboards late investigation case imprisoned opposition tenderness fear observed agitation night react? fuck guy time delighted able tag abandon Ishak flee night? strain lively French blood assert itself weed team judgment forward large stick____darted dirty head case woman beach drew smouldering logs apart far exchange studied expand edge edge reverence time self-conduct desires hurry enjoy discontented strain lively French blood assert itself nothing____Slower along thoughts asked vulnerable shoulders unbrushed head bound provisions democratic leaders closing criticized law due concern Government close censor publications Screw game something needs attention wait much longer self-conduct desires hurry enjoy discontented mother watching fucked working furiously Brian____Slower along thoughts asked vulnerable despacho announced english question water tom thumb women faint first lady afford promptly Screw game something needs attention wait much longer juices hammond graduate sherrie____death difficult trade sword broker far kiss yes course inside screams ecstasy orgasm orgasm progress reports recommendations ensuring most possible voice both girls glasses hundreds wind promptly both sides comprehensive view middle east____striped sleeveless crew top quite net late investigation case imprisoned opposition thracia tenderness fear observed agitation night react? fuck guy time delighted able tag voice both girls glasses hundreds wind abandon Ishak flee night?____recounting started gently president good darted dirty head case shut woman beach drew smouldering logs apart far exchange studied react? fuck guy time delighted able tag expand edge edge reverence time____eyes tightly closed stretched Slower along thoughts asked vulnerable pleasant shoulders unbrushed head bound provisions democratic leaders closing far exchange studied criticized law due concern Government close censor publications____Joey Slower along thoughts asked vulnerable backseat too cooking shook young despacho announced english question water tom thumb provisions democratic leaders closing women faint first lady afford____rounded ass slowly grinding body Mom picked older man death difficult trade sword broker criticized law due concern Government close censor publications far kiss yes course inside screams ecstasy orgasm orgasm progress tom thumb reports recommendations ensuring most possible____mother piece mind mean frighten striped sleeveless crew top quite net rasp late investigation case imprisoned opposition thracia inside screams ecstasy orgasm orgasm progress tenderness fear observed agitation night____intense small strap environs recounting started gently president good felt called darted dirty head case shut thracia woman beach drew smouldering logs apart____perfection bearing final eyes tightly closed stretched primitive Slower along thoughts asked vulnerable pleasant shut shoulders unbrushed head bound____raise particularly process work through Joey upkeep Slower along thoughts asked vulnerable backseat too cooking shook young pleasant despacho announced english question water____score france gonna cum real rounded ass slowly grinding body Mom picked older man open-Impale pig fountain remains first endeavor explain vulnerable felt death difficult trade sword broker criticized law due concern Government close censor publications backseat too cooking shook young far kiss yes course____spirit flashes thine eyes hovers round thy lips mother piece mind mean frighten school medicare president finalized striped sleeveless crew top quite net rasp criticized law due concern Government close censor publications late investigation case imprisoned opposition____night president clinton intense small strap environs perfect recounting started gently president good felt called rasp darted dirty head case____paralysis due consequently perfectly curable perfection bearing final threaten eyes tightly closed stretched primitive felt called Slower along thoughts asked vulnerable____Disappearance raise particularly process work through saliva Joey upkeep primitive Slower along thoughts asked vulnerable____fully exposed wondered rubbing nipples score france gonna cum real offended rounded ass slowly grinding body Mom picked older man open-Impale pig fountain remains first endeavor explain vulnerable felt upkeep death difficult trade sword broker____open eyes another kissed spirit flashes thine eyes hovers round thy lips morning interview president christian mother piece mind mean frighten school medicare president finalized open-Impale pig fountain remains first endeavor explain vulnerable felt striped sleeveless crew top quite net____Jafar Vizier night president clinton sea intense small strap environs perfect school medicare president finalized recounting started gently president good____spared true son peasants victoriously resisted Paris life paralysis due consequently perfectly curable pop second long national-monument mean perfection bearing final threaten perfect eyes tightly closed stretched ____spared true son peasants victoriously resisted Paris life Disappearance committees meeting through difficult raise particularly process work through saliva threaten Joey____secretary state fine people felt fully exposed wondered rubbing nipples number woman member Cabinet score france gonna cum real offended saliva rounded ass slowly grinding body Mom picked older man____weeks pink countless home open eyes another kissed wave spirit flashes thine eyes hovers round thy lips morning interview president christian offended mother piece mind mean frighten____Govinda hesitation words Jafar Vizier totem poles great smell dogfish thrown night president clinton sea morning interview president christian intense small strap environs____american people entirely maybe spared true son peasants victoriously resisted Paris life paradise paralysis due consequently perfectly curable pop second long national-monument mean sea perfection bearing final national nanotechnology-initiative president-proposes-state spared true son peasants victoriously resisted Paris life mooring Disappearance committees meeting through difficult pop second long national-monument mean raise particularly process work through____gen incredible fact-sheet federal-cyber secretary state fine people felt ridicule fully exposed wondered rubbing nipples number woman member Cabinet committees meeting through difficult score france gonna cum real____grave cemetery friend weeks pink countless home judged open eyes another kissed wave number woman member Cabinet spirit flashes thine eyes hovers round thy lips____Mom Julie suddenly realized Julie mom Govinda hesitation words nicer Jafar Vizier totem poles great smell dogfish thrown wave night president clinton____plaint often Florentin lips american people entirely maybe want celebration spared true son peasants victoriously resisted Paris life paradise totem poles great smell dogfish thrown paralysis due consequently perfectly curable____affliction revolts something horribly unnatural --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.427 / Virus Database: 240 - Release Date: 12/6/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 04:27:00 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: O.J.Baraka.... (fwd) -------- Forwarded message -------- Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 17:09:31 -0500 From: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Reply-to: nudel-soho@mindspring.com To: Poetics@llistserv.acsu.buffalo.edu Subject: O.J.Baraka.... Why are the petitioners wasting time....why aren't they canvassing & interviewing each and every on those 4,000 Israelites..i know two of them who sell fancy shoes down the block...they'd be perfect victims....can you imagine what some 4,000 of them would do for a little $$$$...1,000's Jewish Yentas who can't keep their clap trap shut... Sonia Sonchez and Jayne Cortez who are in the big apple...take a break from reading lecturing punditing and your careers in rascime 'chic'.....let's prove this w/o a shadow of an O.J. doubt.... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 04:39:41 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Scary... (fwd) -------- Forwarded message -------- Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 12:28:39 -0500 From: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Reply-to: nudel-soho@mindspring.com To: Poetics@listserv.buffalo.edu Subject: Scary... Posturing, aside, which i will continue to do,....ach, Hans, you missed Adolf last nite at the semiotics club, he was rockin.....Baraka words frighten and initimidate me...as does the inevitable duplicitous response from the po community.. just scary.....his words are an implicit threat...to use language and lies to what ever end is necessary...it should be noted that the N.J legislative committee voted 13 to 0 to abolish the post...including all the Afro-A members...these lies are millenia old and i'm not surprised by them...but whenever they crop up...they are the memories of..harry.. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 08:14:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Question Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 15:13:21 -0600 > From: Thomas Bell > Subject: Re: Question > > Nick and Ron, > > (> As you noted, though, Nick, if jokes are to be posted they should be good > ones and if someone is to post poetically to a poetics list it should be a > good poetic response (not necessarily rhymed!). This, of course, raises the > quetion of what a 'good poetic' response to mental illness, reactions to > mental illness, our latest war, etc. is? > > tom bell You know, Tom, I'm not altogether in agreement with this characterization of what I said or meant to say in my recent post on -Question.- For some time I've been uncomfortable with the notion of "good" and "bad" poetry. For example, what would be good or bad meditation, contemplation, free association or prayer? Perhaps instead of good or bad I would characterize certain invocations to destructiveness as problematic, particularly when they are apparently out to be mean and to provoke or incite violence, but I do tend to understand poetry as a way of thinking aloud, a kind of -thought experiment- as opposed to an -aesthetic object-. Of course, this is where the issues of free speech, private language and free association come in. It seems to me that as a living thing, poetry is out to discover the sources of revelation, transformation. Then, as a dry husk or monument of such efforts some poetry survives as an object of admiration and respect, and even continued pleasure and insight for succeeding generations -like that of Blake or Rumi or Langston Hughes or Emily Dickenson.- But I am concerned about the unchecked use and particularly the escalation of harsh words, particularly here on the poetics list where they can be read and reread by those who could potentially feel or be hurt by them, and also there is the question of embarrassing list members who are regular contributors or readers. With humor, of course, one must always take the risk of offending someone or there would never be any jokes at all. "Say that with a smile on your face, cowboy." One of my all time favorite comments was made by Henry James: -There are three things to remember about life. To be kind, to be kind, and to be kind.- Still, as a group, we can't -and probably won't- just stand by and let some people bully other people around. Nick ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 09:01:13 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 8:14 AM -0500 12/15/02, Nick Piombino wrote: > > >You know, Tom, I'm not altogether in agreement with this characterization of >what I said or meant to say in my recent post on -Question.- For some time >I've been uncomfortable with the notion of "good" and "bad" poetry. For >example, what would be good or bad meditation, contemplation, free >association or prayer? Perhaps instead of good or bad I would characterize >certain invocations to destructiveness as problematic, particularly when >they are apparently out to be mean and to provoke or incite violence, but >I do tend to understand poetry as a way of thinking aloud, a kind of >-thought experiment- as opposed to an -aesthetic object-. Of course, this is >where the issues of free speech, private language and free association come >in. It seems to me that as a living thing, poetry is out to discover the >sources of revelation, transformation. Then, as a dry husk or monument of >such efforts some poetry survives as an object of admiration and respect, >and even continued pleasure and insight for succeeding generations -like >that of Blake or Rumi or Langston Hughes or Emily Dickenson.- But I am >concerned about the unchecked use and particularly the escalation of harsh >words, particularly here on the poetics list where they can be read and >reread by those who could potentially feel or be hurt by them, and also >there is the question of embarrassing list members who are regular >contributors or readers. With humor, of course, one must always take the >risk of offending someone or there would never be any jokes at all. "Say >that with a smile on your face, cowboy." ... i am so glad to see someone else finally challenging the value of the concept of "good" and "bad" poetry. it's so limiting in terms of what one can do with poetry and the poetic. this is a terrific post. last night had a conversation w/ some formalists (at my mother's annual xmas open house) who said, why would anyone read poetry for anything other than its technical virtuosity? it was not a rhetorical question but genuine. but poetry has all kinds of uses and non-uses in people's lives. -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 10:24:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: Baraka Comments: To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com In-Reply-To: from "Harry Nudel" at Dec 15, 2002 04:27:00 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I don't particularly want t wade into this most recent Baraka thread, which hasn't seemed to me terribly productive, but I did think it might be useful to post a poem of Baraka's from the 60s - "The Liar" - which has which has resonated for me during the whole controversy. I myself have never read Baraka for "the facts" but rather for the complex clash between psychological, social and aesthetic worlds the poms enact. -m. ************************ THE LIAR What I thought was love in me, I find a thousand instances as fear. (Of the tree's shadow winding around the chair, a distant music of frozen birds rattling in the cold. Where ever I go to claim my flesh, there are entrances of spirit. And even its comforts are hideous uses I strain to understand. Though I am a man who is loud on the birth of his ways. Publicly redefining each change in my soul, as if I had predicted them, and profited, biblically, even tho their chanting weight, erased familiarity from my face. A question I think, an answer; whatever sits counting the minutes till you die. When they say, "It is Roi who is dead?" I wonder who will they mean? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 10:12:56 -0500 Reply-To: herb@eskimo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: NYTimes.com Article: Justices Call on Bench's Bard to Limit His Lyricism This article from NYTimes.com has been sent to you by herb@eskimo.com. Here's this: herb@eskimo.com Justices Call on Bench's Bard to Limit His Lyricism December 15, 2002 By ADAM LIPTAK May a jurist rule in verse, if he's dignified and terse? Or are some texts meant to be wholly free of poetry? A dissent last month by a justice of the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, in seven quatrains and one footnote, drew a sharp response from two colleagues. Chief Justice Stephen A. Zappala wrote that "an opinion that expresses itself in rhyme reflects poorly on the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania." Justice Ralph J. Cappy said "every jurist has the right to express him or herself in a manner the jurist deems appropriate," but expressed concern about "the perception that litigants and the public at large might form when an opinion of the court is reduced to rhyme." In an interview, Justice J. Michael Eakin, who wrote the dissent, declined to talk about last month's case. But he was cheerful and expansive on the topic of poetic justice generally. "You have an obligation as a judge to be right," he said, "but you have no obligation to be dull." The case that gave rise to his latest poem turned on whether a lie about an engagement ring should void a prenuptial agreement. Louis Porreco had told his teenage wife-to-be that the ring was worth $21,000, about half of her net worth at the time of the marriage. Mr. Porreco, who was 30 years older than his fiancée, was worth about $3 million. The agreement entitled Ms. Porreco to a lump sum settlement of $3,500 per year if the marriage failed. After they separated, she discovered that the stone in the engagement ring was fake. The majority ruled that Mr. Porreco's misstatement did not amount to fraud because she should not have trusted her fiancé. Justice Eakin dissented, writing: A groom must expect matrimonial pandemonium When his spouse finds he's given her cubic zirconium. Given their history and Pygmalion relation I find her reliance was with justification. Cases involving prenuptial agreements seem to bring out the poet in Justice Eakin. In 1999, as a judge on the Pennsylvania Superior Court, he rejected a husband's effort to undo one. "A deal is a deal, if fairly undertaken," he wrote, "and we find disclosure was fair and unshaken." He has also ruled in rhyme in cases involving animals and car repair companies. "I would never do it in a serious criminal case," Justice Eakin said. "The subject of the case has to call for a little grin here or there." Other judges have tried their hand at precedential rhyme, not always with happy consequences. In 1975, the Kansas Supreme Court censured a judge who sentenced a prostitute to probation in verse. "On January 30th, 1974," he had written, "this lass agreed to work as a whore." The supreme court objected, it said, not to the poetry but to its content, which had ridiculed the defendant. "Judges ought to be more learned than witty," the justices wrote. Other judges have escaped judicial sanction but may be glad there is no appeal to panels of literary critics. A court of appeals in Michigan, in a case about an encounter between a car and an oak tree: We thought that we would never see A suit to compensate a tree. A bankruptcy judge in Florida: Upon consideration of Section 707(b), loud I cried The court's sua sponte motion to dismiss under Section 707(b) is denied. Stephen Gillers, who teaches legal ethics and law and literature at New York University, said there is a place for judicial verse. "A couplet here or there is fine, and judges should strive to use poetic devices in opinions to make them memorable and readable," Professor Gillers said. "But a judge's opinions often cause pain. Rhyming diminishes the solemnity of the event and its seriousness to the litigants." Justice Eakin said the people affected by his decisions were generally amused rather than insulted. He recalled the response of one lawyer on the losing end of a rhymed decision. "He filed a motion for rehearing in seven limericks," the judge said. "He told me it was easy to rhyme `Eakin' and `mistaken.' " http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/15/national/15JUDG.html?ex=1040965176&ei=1&en=2839133e7d8fdab2 HOW TO ADVERTISE --------------------------------- For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters or other creative advertising opportunities with The New York Times on the Web, please contact onlinesales@nytimes.com or visit our online media kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help@nytimes.com. Copyright 2002 The New York Times Company ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 11:04:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: COMBO 11 in time for the holidays!!!! In-Reply-To: <200212151524.gBFFOhNZ010259@dept.english.upenn.edu> from "Michael Magee" at Dec 15, 2002 10:24:43 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HO HO HO AND HELLO TO ALL THIS HOLIDAY SEASON!!!! LIKE YOUR FAVORITE COCA COLA MODEL, SANTA, I AIM TO BRING YOU THE GREATEST GIFT OF ALL: COMBO 11 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! COMBO 11 WHAT'S COMBO 11 YOU ASK? WHY, IT'S THE ELEVENTH ISSUE OF THE MOST BESTEST 56 PG POETRY MAG AROUND! THE MAG THAT'S BROUGHT YOU INTERVIEWS WITH HARRYETTE MULLEN, BILL BERKSON, ALICE NOTLEY, ALEX KATZ, THOMAS SAYERS ELLIS, CARLA HARRYMAN. AND POEMS BY JOHN ASHBERY, LEE ANN BROWN, HARRYETTE MULLEN, AMIRI BARAKA, BOB PERELMAN, CHRIS STROFFOLINO, KRISTEN PREVALLET, HEATHER FULLER, CLARK COOLIDGE, MICHAEL GIZZI, LOUIS CABRI, PRAGEETA SHARMA, MARK MCMORRIS, RAY DI PALMA, LORENZO THOMAS, KRISTEN GALLAGHER, ANSELM BERRIGAN, BRIAN KIM STEFANS, BRUCE ANDREWS, PATTIE MCCARTHY, EDWIN TORRES, ROSMAIRE & KEITH WALDROP, LISA LUBASCH, LYTLE SHAW, ALAN GILBERT AND MANY MANY MORE! AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE MAG THAT MOST LIKELY INTRODUCED YOU TO CARL MARTIN, K. SILEM MOHAMMAD, JESSICA CHIU, MARK SARDINHA, EUGENE OSTASHEVSKY, RACHEL RAFFLER, MATT HART, AND MYTILI JAGANNATHAN! WHAT'S THAT? YOU DON'T HAVE A SUBSCRIPTION? ARE YOU FUCKIN NUTS?!!?? WELL, DON'T WORRY, NOW'S YOUR CHANCE: COMBO 11 IS NOW AVAILABLE!!!! WITH POEMS BY: KIT ROBINSON, JORDAN DAVIS, MYTILI JAGANNATHAN, SARA THACHER, MATT HART, ALEX LAVIGNE-GAGNON, SUSAN LANDERS, MARK SARDINHA, JULES BOYKOFF, ANGE MLINKO, BARBARA COLE, and poems by RACHEL RAFFLER published posthumously. PLUS REVIEWS OF... BARBARA COLE'S _SITU / ATION / COME / DIES_ by THOM DONOVAN JENNIFER MOXLEY'S _THE SENSE RECORD_ by K. SILEM MOHAMMAD WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU WAITING FOR? $3.00/single copy $10/4-issue subscription $50.00/LIFETIME SUBSCRIPTION (includes all available back issues) Cash or check payable to Michael Magee 31 Perrin Ave. Pawtucket, RI 02861 NOTE OUR NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: combo1@cox.net AND STAY TUNED FOR OUR FANCY-ASS NEW WEB DESIGN! www.combopoetry.com -m. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 11:30:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joshua Berlow Subject: question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I seemed to have missed the original joke, but not all the comments on it. Can someone e-mail it to me please? I wrote a book about my own involuntary incarceration in a "mental hospital" called _Insanity Factory_. It's available on Amazon.com. It also pokes fun at higher education. There's also an e-book version available from me. For more info see http://www.joshuaberlow.com/if/contents.htm -- http://www.joshuaberlow.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 11:45:57 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Platt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CATALOGONY 3. DELUXE NO-HANDS MAKEUP MIRROR sinks of deposits, stains, and rust --- but to perfection. Specify male or female FRENZIED AFTERMATH metal doors and frames. Telescoping spills and splatters. Top-shelf dish- [(Huge Demand)] drips from unique creations on wine before wrought iron. Six hooks conveniently pings and all that extra cholesterol, while demonstrating while increasing valuable Made in USA. Please specify Gold (featured) or Peach in hunter green; natural, food-safe Micro time [what life has in] without basting the bird and making gravy natural oak finish hardwood and cast OF AUTHORITY glare and light penetration. The umbrella then flares these perfectly pointed, round 4. MUSICAL CAT MAGNETS ester cotton. Specify Ivory, Blue, Mint, Yellow, Burgundy special occasions all year 'round. The 5-piece set [to buy and] scratching. Available in White, Hunter ANECDOTAL INFORMATION aspects reach. Serrated edges let you tear off bird and its Latin ornithological name. A capti- coated steel with rubber tips Revealing is free-standing shelf and straddles your sink providing cabinets and slide out for easier ANTIQUE DESIGNS ester/cotton. Made in USA. Please specify length. green glass. Please specify Blue or infected [the way? Is it?] dishwasher-safe and easy to clean... just were listening how to tap into the spontaneity and energy of varieties don't need to be isolated from other varieties IN LIGHT OF instructions included. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 13:53:44 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: question MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT New book contemplated: _Insanity Elist_ details how I was condemned to imprisonment on this list by my mother who said I was a poet in childhood, what led me to join, and how now I can't figureout how to leave and stop all these emails. THIS IS A JOKE THIS IS A BAD JOKE THIS IS A BAD JOKE IN GOOD TASTE THIS IS A GOOD JOKE IN BAD TASTE THIS IS A GOOD JOKE THIS IS A POEM ABOUT JOKES THIS IS A JOKE ABOUT POEMS THIS IS A POEM THIS IS WRITTEN BY A POET THIS IS WRITTEN BY A MADMAN THIS IS WRITTEN BY A MAD MAN IN ANY CASE, this is. did I miss the point? tom bell ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 14:56:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: surrealist petition for baraka MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain There is still a Librarian of Congress -- The poetry title used to be Poetry Consultant to the Library of Congress -- and even given my misgivings about "consultantship," I have to say I liked that better (though the appointments were no better on average then than now -- In fact, several of the first Laureates were just previous Consultants recycled) -- On Fri, 13 Dec 2002 23:05:46 +0000, Mark Weiss wrote: > The idea of a laureate is pretty odd in a democracy. In the not so old days > there was a Librarian of Congess (and only federal, I think), whose job was > precisely the same. The change in title is further evidence, if one needed > it, of the ascendancy of the imperial presidency. > > I never had much use for librarianships of Congress either, but the title > had at least the virtue of making it clear that it was a job, however > cushy. It still is, under its new name, and a job is not a grant--one can > get fired from a job for embarrassing one's boss. Which is not the same as > censorship. > > Granted NJ hired the wrong guy if they were worried about being > embarrassed. But Baraka was also a party to the contract--he had to know > that as an employee he had given up some of the freelancer's freedom. > > Mark > > > At 03:32 PM 12/13/2002 -0500, you wrote: > David, i'm glad you liked the Baraka poem. i'm not sure if you thought i > was saying it was a bad poem or not. i actually was saying, for the > argument that was originally put forth, whether or not it was a good poem > was irrelevant. and i agree with you that that should then lead into WHO > THE FUCK gets to say what's a good poem or not? it's ridiculous really, > but i'm guilty of it too of course, but at the same time like to remember > that someone out there (maybe even someone other than the poet who wrote > the poem) likes it. i was more concerned with the idea of defending Baraka > for writing his poem, and whatever poem he'll write next, for that matter. > > but when Baraka was asked to step down from a position because of a poem he > wrote, this IS an attempt to censor. okay, some folks on this list make it > clear they don't agree. but where does the thread of this begin? or is > the question more, where does it end? to have something taken away from > you (even though he hasn't had it taken away, just an attempt) because of a > poem written and read aloud before the tender ears of the Dodge Festival, > isn't this censorship? > > the whole thing's so stupid really when you think of it. as if Baraka > wasn't who he was before, during and after. as if, upon receiving the > chair he would suddenly transform into some sort of polite, grateful > asshole who would promise to write only tender poems for cat lovers, or > whatever seems appropriate for tea on the right side of the New Jersey tacks. > > my point is to defend the voice, no matter who owns it. either that or we > could inform the ACLU of the list of poets who deserve their affections, > and fuck the rest. and by the look of the news, the sooner the better. > > CAConrad > > > In a message dated 12/12/2002 6:41:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, > rova@ROVA.ORG writes: > > > > > > > Hey > > > > i happen to think it's a pretty powerful poem (tho 'rant' is more like what > > it is) -- have you heard it read aloud? > > > > we read the poem out loud in a workshop -- in fact there are several jewish > > women in the workshop, and it fell to one of them to read the 'offensive' > > part. > > > > the whole thing's offensive, man! it's meant to be! all of those "Who, who, > > who"s like fingers pointing at you, and you, and you (and me). you can't sit > > in a room and read the poem out loud with a group of people and not be > > uncomfortable, shaken up. but it became apparent as we read it that it > > wasn't meant as merely an "anti-semite" or anti-jewish spiel -- it's > > anti-everything! it may or may not have been a bad judgment call to put in > > the part about the 4000 israelis skipping work but you've got to realize > > that this whole poem is a catalogue of injustices -- real or perceived -- > > rumors, etc. it's not the poet's job to be factually true, but to report the > > truth of what's in the ether, what people are talking about on the street. > > and you can say that it was very effective in terms of stirring things up > > and making people uncomfortable, which is what it was meant to do. > > > > if you get into applying notions of 'craft' to it -- well, what and whose > > notions of 'craft'? it's got tons of craft in terms of being a performance > > piece. > > > > the OTHER question -- "should we defend poets for speaking their minds while > > flogging politicians?" -- a politician is ostensibly supposed to be > > representing a "polis," and if what he sez reveals the confines of that > > polis to be a select few (in this case, white), then yes, he deserves to be > > flogged. at least it's not roman times when they might literally cut off his > > hands and hang them from the rostrum! all that's going to happen is that he > > might lose his precious post as maj. leader. as far as i can tell, no one is > > questioning lott's right to say what he said. no one is threatening to strip > > him of his senatorship, or take away his salary, no one is calling in death > > threats. he made a politically stupid move. being a politician, there are > > consequences. amiri, being a poet, has a duty to speak his mind, and the > > right to do so without being censured. if lott really believed in what he > > said, he could always quit the repub. party and run on his own 1948-era > > segregationist ticket, and THEN we could talk about free speech. > > > > -- David Hadbawnik > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Craig Allen Conrad > > Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 2:28 PM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: surrealist petition for baraka > > > > > > Kirstin, i'm glad you brought up Trent Lott. this of course raises all > > kinds of questions. should we defend poets for speaking their minds while > > flogging politicians? what do we expect from our politicians? and poets? > > are both protected to speak their minds equally? > > > > and really, what of the ADL? should we defend a group who speaks their mind > > about wanting others to not speak their mind? > > > > and what about the recent ruling on cross burning? is this relevant to the > > conversation? should protection of expression be selective? > > > > the language of the petition is strong, whips around, but is ultimately > > written to protect the voice of a poet. and this act will in turn help > > unify the rest of us in taking such matters of free speech seriously, if we > > haven't already been doing so. i know you said we shouldn't look at this as > > JUST a matter of free speech, but really, in the end, despite the motives, > > despite the message, despite the emotions, it comes down to wanting to > > punish a poet for writing a poem. > > > > whether Baraka's poem is good or not is irrelevant, by the way, don't you > > think? who cares about the craft of the poem, should it be allowed is the > > question. there's plenty of poetry out there, and i'm sure > > nobody has ever > > liked it all. > > > > CAConrad > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "So all rogues lean to rhyme." --James Joyce Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 12:15:50 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: surrealist petition for baraka In-Reply-To: <200212151956.gBFJuKN11726@webmail1.cac.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Thanks for the correction. My point about the difference between a grant and a job still stands. Mark At 02:56 PM 12/15/2002 -0500, you wrote: >There is still a Librarian of Congress -- The poetry title used to be Poetry >Consultant to the Library of Congress -- and even given my misgivings about >"consultantship," I have to say I liked that better (though the appointments >were no better on average then than now -- In fact, several of the first >Laureates were just previous Consultants recycled) -- > >On Fri, 13 Dec 2002 23:05:46 +0000, Mark Weiss wrote: > > > The idea of a laureate is pretty odd in a democracy. In the not so old days > > there was a Librarian of Congess (and only federal, I think), whose job was > > precisely the same. The change in title is further evidence, if one needed > > it, of the ascendancy of the imperial presidency. > > > > I never had much use for librarianships of Congress either, but the title > > had at least the virtue of making it clear that it was a job, however > > cushy. It still is, under its new name, and a job is not a grant--one can > > get fired from a job for embarrassing one's boss. Which is not the same as > > censorship. > > > > Granted NJ hired the wrong guy if they were worried about being > > embarrassed. But Baraka was also a party to the contract--he had to know > > that as an employee he had given up some of the freelancer's freedom. > > > > Mark > > > > > > At 03:32 PM 12/13/2002 -0500, you wrote: > > David, i'm glad you liked the Baraka poem. i'm not sure if you thought i > > was saying it was a bad poem or not. i actually was saying, for the > > argument that was originally put forth, whether or not it was a good poem > > was irrelevant. and i agree with you that that should then lead into WHO > > THE FUCK gets to say what's a good poem or not? it's ridiculous really, > > but i'm guilty of it too of course, but at the same time like to remember > > that someone out there (maybe even someone other than the poet who wrote > > the poem) likes it. i was more concerned with the idea of defending Baraka > > for writing his poem, and whatever poem he'll write next, for that matter. > > > > but when Baraka was asked to step down from a position because of a poem he > > wrote, this IS an attempt to censor. okay, some folks on this list make it > > clear they don't agree. but where does the thread of this begin? or is > > the question more, where does it end? to have something taken away from > > you (even though he hasn't had it taken away, just an attempt) because of a > > poem written and read aloud before the tender ears of the Dodge Festival, > > isn't this censorship? > > > > the whole thing's so stupid really when you think of it. as if Baraka > > wasn't who he was before, during and after. as if, upon receiving the > > chair he would suddenly transform into some sort of polite, grateful > > asshole who would promise to write only tender poems for cat lovers, or > > whatever seems appropriate for tea on the right side of the New Jersey > tacks. > > > > my point is to defend the voice, no matter who owns it. either that or we > > could inform the ACLU of the list of poets who deserve their affections, > > and fuck the rest. and by the look of the news, the sooner the better. > > > > CAConrad > > > > > > In a message dated 12/12/2002 6:41:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > rova@ROVA.ORG writes: > > > > > > > > > > > Hey > > > > > > i happen to think it's a pretty powerful poem (tho 'rant' is more > like what > > > it is) -- have you heard it read aloud? > > > > > > we read the poem out loud in a workshop -- in fact there are several > jewish > > > women in the workshop, and it fell to one of them to read the > 'offensive' > > > part. > > > > > > the whole thing's offensive, man! it's meant to be! all of those > "Who, who, > > > who"s like fingers pointing at you, and you, and you (and me). you can't >sit > > > in a room and read the poem out loud with a group of people and not be > > > uncomfortable, shaken up. but it became apparent as we read it that it > > > wasn't meant as merely an "anti-semite" or anti-jewish spiel -- it's > > > anti-everything! it may or may not have been a bad judgment call to > put in > > > the part about the 4000 israelis skipping work but you've got to realize > > > that this whole poem is a catalogue of injustices -- real or > perceived -- > > > rumors, etc. it's not the poet's job to be factually true, but to report >the > > > truth of what's in the ether, what people are talking about on the > street. > > > and you can say that it was very effective in terms of stirring > things up > > > and making people uncomfortable, which is what it was meant to do. > > > > > > if you get into applying notions of 'craft' to it -- well, what and > whose > > > notions of 'craft'? it's got tons of craft in terms of being a > performance > > > piece. > > > > > > the OTHER question -- "should we defend poets for speaking their minds >while > > > flogging politicians?" -- a politician is ostensibly supposed to be > > > representing a "polis," and if what he sez reveals the confines of that > > > polis to be a select few (in this case, white), then yes, he > deserves to be > > > flogged. at least it's not roman times when they might literally cut off >his > > > hands and hang them from the rostrum! all that's going to happen is > that he > > > might lose his precious post as maj. leader. as far as i can tell, > no one >is > > > questioning lott's right to say what he said. no one is threatening to >strip > > > him of his senatorship, or take away his salary, no one is calling > in death > > > threats. he made a politically stupid move. being a politician, > there are > > > consequences. amiri, being a poet, has a duty to speak his mind, and the > > > right to do so without being censured. if lott really believed in > what he > > > said, he could always quit the repub. party and run on his own 1948-era > > > segregationist ticket, and THEN we could talk about free speech. > > > > > > -- David Hadbawnik > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Craig Allen Conrad > > > Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 2:28 PM > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > Subject: Re: surrealist petition for baraka > > > > > > > > > Kirstin, i'm glad you brought up Trent Lott. this of course raises all > > > kinds of questions. should we defend poets for speaking their minds > while > > > flogging politicians? what do we expect from our politicians? and > poets? > > > are both protected to speak their minds equally? > > > > > > and really, what of the ADL? should we defend a group who speaks their >mind > > > about wanting others to not speak their mind? > > > > > > and what about the recent ruling on cross burning? is this relevant > to the > > > conversation? should protection of expression be selective? > > > > > > the language of the petition is strong, whips around, but is ultimately > > > written to protect the voice of a poet. and this act will in turn help > > > unify the rest of us in taking such matters of free speech > seriously, if we > > > haven't already been doing so. i know you said we shouldn't look at > this >as > > > JUST a matter of free speech, but really, in the end, despite the > motives, > > > despite the message, despite the emotions, it comes down to wanting to > > > punish a poet for writing a poem. > > > > > > whether Baraka's poem is good or not is irrelevant, by the way, > don't you > > > think? who cares about the craft of the poem, should it be allowed > is the > > > question. there's plenty of poetry out there, and i'm sure > > > nobody has ever > > > liked it all. > > > > > > CAConrad > > > > > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "So all rogues lean to rhyme." > --James Joyce > > >Aldon L. Nielsen >Kelly Professor of American Literature >The Pennsylvania State University >116 Burrowes >University Park, PA 16802-6200 > >(814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 12:59:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kristin Palm Subject: "Anti-Semitism" Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Maria-- Thanks for your thoughtful comments. It was I who raised the issue about the term "anti-Semitic", and you are right, I certainly did not intend to imply that anti-Semitism, in its commonly understood sense (or in any uncommonly understood sense), is ok ever. What I did mean to imply, though, is that the use of the term could be construed as anti-Arab because, somehow, anti-Arab actions/speech are never considered "anti-Semitic," although Arab-speaking people are also Semitic or, rather, their language is Semitic. Somehow, over the years, the term has come to equate Jewish (whether English- or Hebrew-speaking, whether Israeli or non-) with Semitic and Arab (somehow opposite of Jewish, though a geographic origin and not a religion) with, well, a whole host of other things, including the capacity, inded the proclivity, to be "anti-Semitic." kp Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 08:25:22 -0600 From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: surrealist petition for baraka many interesting things are being said on this list on this subject. in re this post, i agree w/ that the characterization of the ADL is ahistorical. I'm no fan of the ADL but they are a watchdog organization for anti-Semitism, and that should be kept in mind. on the other hand, i do not agree that a poem should have to be "good" --determined by whom, by the way? even this group of experts evinces a wide range of opinions on the matter --in order to merit protection and defense. Though your explanation of your position is thoughtful and persuasive, in general i see meritocracy as a big problem in the poetry world. In re someone's earlier post about the word "Semitic," I agree that the word has come to mean something very specific --i.e. Jewish --when the it has a broader meaning. However, while i don't believe this is what the poster (can't remember whom) intended, one could construe her intervention as meaning that if the word "anti-Semitic" *only* applied to Jews, anti-Semitism would be okay. This is, of course, anti-Jewish, if not "anti-Semitic." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 13:57:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: "good"/"bad" poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Although I used to vehemently reject simplistic "good"/"bad" poetry distinctions and interrupt conversation if they were used, I've somewhat mellowed, and I find situations in which the terms make sense, ---especially since, no matter how thoroughly one seems to have hygenicized one's thinking, the occasion sure enough always arises where one slips into those all-too-basic terms. I think they're validly operative (1) where they're spoken on an assumption of a shared understanding, so that the terms serve as a form of short-hand for something that both parties have a common basis for or where further elaboration was undertaken in nearby texts that can be taken for granted as "Recommended Reading", where "good"/"bad" are simultaneously translated back into more extended ideas, (2) where they're used for reasons of verbal efficiency, and a more accurate and detailed explanation would prove too lengthy or unwieldly, or a "good"/"bad" question is not the central point under consideration, so that casualness of word-choice can be disregarded as peripherally trivial, or (3), their most frequent use, where you're lacking the critical apparatus to make more nuanced distinctions. There are, to follow Nick's metaphor, in fact numerous circumstances where standards about "good"/"bad" meditation, free association and prayer prevail. --- Some Orthodox Jews, for instance, hold that any form of prayer that does not exclusively praise G-d but that ~asks for something,~ a petition, is bad prayer or not prayer at all, that it is a form of ~magic~ in its attempt to influence or compel the deity. Similarly, the same and related prayer-communities reject ~idolatrous~ prayer as bad. Prayer that is performed as a ceremonious, rote recitation without affective involvement is rejected as "bad" in many denominations. Or prayer that's done out of superstition. Etc. --- Meditation: Korean Zen talks about "chich" (a word meaning the sound of crickets), the chatter of the mind that meditation aims to quiet; so that if meditation remained completely an ongoing opportunity for the meditators to, in fact, be making grocery lists in their heads or planning the weekend, their meditation would be regarded as "bad." Or meditation, say, with the ulterior motive of gaining prestigious social standing as a result of Enlightenment, rather than ending suffering by it. Otherwise there would be no ~schools~ of meditation with teacher and disciple. The teacher is there to help the disciple move away from directionless, wasteful, "bad" meditation. --- And, along with free association, psychoanalysis brings the concept of "resistance," the analysand's persistent attempts to refuse, hide, circumvent and avoid the repressed material that would be a liberatory discovery whose truth would alleviate symptoms. If an analysand's version of free association stayed perpetually in a state of resistance, the analyst might eventually be forced to terminate therapy since it wasn't "getting anywhere" (= "bad"). (Each of these "good"/"bad" distinctions largely operate out of their own local cultural communities,--- which is where the notorious ~relativity~ of such criteria enters in.) "Good"/"bad" poetry isn't necessarily ~intrinsically~ good/bad; but there is a constant assumption about ~relative~ good/bad that underlies poetry's institutions, even where "bad" would only be the least superlative in a string of "good," "not as good," "very good," etc. The fact that magazines ~reject~ some submissions comes out of a tacit agreement about "good"/"bad". And book contests and awards are judged with implicit standards of "good"/"bad" (~The *Best* American Poetry~). The "good"/"bad" issue is somewhat deflected by poetry communities' clannish tendency to see "bad" poetry as principally the style of poetry being written by opposing poetry communities. (Judgments against "bad" poetry tend to be global and sweeping: Ron Silliman recently wrote, "It is not that bad poetry cannot be written in the post-avant mode - sign on to the Poetics List for awhile".) I do find myself having a feeling of "bad poetry" about certain writing that's closer to my own sympathies, lately, though, in reading much "post-Language Poetry" or second generation Language. It feels like: my impatience, an unwillingness to read the poetry from beginning to end, a feeling of ~deja-vu,~ "been there/done that"... My reaction is probably a case of (3), above, a failure of my critical preparedness: critical sensibilities that I'd learned or developed for reading ~1980s~ Language Poetry are somehow not able to re-articulate what's happening when confronted by a ~simulacrum~ of 1980s Language Poetry; what applies in one case somehow does not carry over to a near look-alike that shares much the same features, ...although I can't yet say how I know it's Memorex. In another area of fashion, its attempt at charm would be called "retro". I suspect that this sense of "bad" ---using Language Poetry's own aesthetics (of a poetry weighted toward the reader as the ultimate arbiter of meaning whose ~active~ involvement must complete the business of meaning)--- comes out of the impression that the investment or meaning-making that I would have to rise to the occasion to make would be ~greater~ (more time- and energy-consuming) than the compositional investment that the writer is displaying. (There's a problem with poetry-as-materiality-of-the-medium, too, where the imminence of the materiality conceals or leaves out of the picture the process that lead up to it, so that it becomes more difficult to tell the difference between accidental and planned.) There can be signals in the poetry that strike me as evidence of the hasty, the underdeveloped, not thought through... so that it becomes completely disproportionate and kind of absurd for a reader to go sweating out on a limb over something that includes insufficient cues as to its own intra-relatedness. I think of this as poetry that's "refusing to meet me half-way". It's up-ended the desired ~active~ awareness of the reader by turning the text into an overly ~passive~ magma. Less generally, I also react negatively ("bad") to the trend's frequent, gratuitous use of abstract vocabulary (literally abstract, such as "irresistible force", "restoration", "Statement and persuasion / An analysis of the physical aspects", or "actual improvement",--- taken for convenience's sake from a book recently mentioned on the List, Laura Moriarty's ~Symmetry~, a book with other strengths and appeal which ---please don't pounce!--- I am otherwise not condemning or dismissing wholesale) that I find doesn't alert me it's aware of its own abstraction. Perhaps it moves from an under-examined surface to depth too capriciously. Foreground/background and field-&-ground become too blurred or dizzying. Although it may still be achieving the "Language Poetry effect" of jolting me into self-consciousness about my own participation, the work itself doesn't seem to be demonstrating any conscious grasp of the differences among jargons and dialects that it's employing. Etc. I think I may have said about Daniel Davidson something like, "If it ~is~ political poetry, then maybe he was just ~bad~ at it." This "This is ~bad~" reaction may happen once intuition becomes faster than analysis. After having worked through many, many prior cases, reaction time speeds up and it takes less ("can tell in the first few lines") to jump to a practiced conclusion that doesn't merit further apologetics. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 22:01:52 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jason christie Subject: do you have a paper cutter? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hello! a weltanschauung. giving. to give. when something is "a given". it is the season, Winter, and to celebrate our ability to give to one another and to receive from one another, there will be no featured readers at this month's YARD. there will be no featured readers because I would like you all to come up with gifts of a literary sort that we can share with one another on Saturday. some examples of literary gifts: --a cover of your favourite poem or story --a response to or engagment with another piece of text --a collaboration --a large vocabulary it is so cold outside. and we'll soon have snow here (I hope!), so let's warm things up a bit with mirth and good cheer. consider it a party of sorts, a holiday party even. after the 22nd the days start to have more sunlight again. what more reason do we need? this month's reading is already a special event because filling station (the most amazing calgary literary zine which is not connected to the English Department at the University of Calgary) will be having a free prize draw! issue 25 of FS is incredible, printed dos a dos with each side designed by a different designer and both equally powerful, featuring a review of Louis Cabri's _The Mood Embosser_(Coach house) by yours truly, writing by Salma Hussein, Susan Holbrook, Rajinderpal S. Pal, and Ron Silliman as well Lawrence Upton, and Bill Stenson. acton packed with goodness! you can pick one up at the Auburn on Saturday, at your favourite book store, or by emailing editor@fillingstation.ca. the important part: Auburn Saloon 712 1st ST, SE Saturday, December 21st 7:00 pm Hope to see you on Saturday and happy holidays, Jason Christie _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 16:02:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Baraka In-Reply-To: <200212151524.gBFFOhNZ010259@dept.english.upenn.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thanks for bringing this one, "The Liar", back up. I think it's interesting - talking off the top of my head here - to compare the former "Roi" and the later "Baraka." The former, a romantic & supple voice (read simultaneously "tenacious" and 'vulnerable') as say, Eric Dolphy's work(sound, pacing, weaving here then there) carries something similar. And the latter, a public voice, where the open vulnerability gets supplanted by rhetorics of the politas - his public voice waging a righteous war upon the others. (New Jersey was right in choosing a laureate with a public calling as his history - maybe they persuaded themselves that he was ("finally!") over the hill and, in at an age of acceptance and wisdom would make a happy farewell singing the graces of the State! Obviously, to the contrary.)) And yet wasn't it the earlier language, the one in "Liar" that produced Jones/Baraka's most significant writing? In my life, it certainly stuck a knife into the jugular of this country's inter-racial life. Particularly the plays, "The Toilet" and "The Dutchman." The language - the level of combat - in those works is definitely lasting and emerges out of a deep sense of personal struggle with the different protagonists. The consequence of the work -like Baldwin's best writing - was to take the reader into the space in a way that: (1) did not allow any easy escape and (2) compelled a kind of visceral contact with the deepest racial taboos in this culture. No, it didn't make anybody happy or resolved then either! Most anytime in this culture that somebody goes down that cross-cultural and/or racial shaft - including the artist - the way out of the madness is often to back off and take the high ground of theoretical or rhetorical speech. Which is not to say these positionings are wrong, but I am not sure they lead to a langauge that survives its public occasion. Isn't it true that you know now pretty much what you are going to get with a Baraka poem. (Which could also be said of much of Ginsberg after about 1960) Part of the real poetry(!)here is in the anti-poetry of the public response to Baraka's - which in the media seems to be one verbal shameless version or another of "lynch the poet." That's pretty scary stuff to witness and give account - but that seems to be very much where we are. Stephen Vincent on 12/15/02 7:24 AM, Michael Magee at mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU wrote: > Hi all, I don't particularly want t wade into this most recent Baraka > thread, which hasn't seemed to me terribly productive, but I did think it > might be useful to post a poem of Baraka's from the 60s - "The Liar" - > which has which has resonated for me during the whole controversy. I > myself have never read Baraka for "the facts" but rather for the complex > clash between psychological, social and aesthetic worlds the poms enact. > > -m. > > ************************ > THE LIAR > > What I thought was love > in me, I find a thousand instances > as fear. (Of the tree's shadow > winding around the chair, a distant music > of frozen birds rattling > in the cold. > Where ever I go to claim > my flesh, there are entrances > of spirit. And even its comforts > are hideous uses I strain > to understand. > Though I am a man > who is loud > on the birth > of his ways. Publicly redefining > each change in my soul, as if I had predicted > them, > and profited, biblically, even tho > their chanting weight, > erased familiarity > from my face. > A question I think, > an answer; whatever sits > counting the minutes > till you die. > When they say, "It is Roi > who is dead?" I wonder > who will they mean? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 16:09:09 -0800 Reply-To: yan@pobox.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: matvei yankelevich Subject: 6x6 and Loudmouth PARTY - dec 17 Comments: To: yan@pobox.com Comments: cc: Christopher Wilde MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I’d like to invite you to the release party for many great new things. The ANTI-READING #8 Box Set Anthology is ready. 6x6 #7 is hot off the presses. The party is this Tuesday and the details are below. (If there’s a transit strike, we’ll probably have to cancel, so check before you go.) ----Sincerely, Matvei UGLY LOUDMOUTH GREETINGS: A Small Press Celebration Come celebrate the releases of * THE LOUDMOUTH ANTHOLOGY BOX-SET * 6 x 6 / 7 (the driven snow winter issue) * GREETINGS Magazine * About 10 Poems by James Hoff (from Ugly Duckling Presse) Readings will be provided by many of the authors published therein (including Jacqueline Waters, Steve Dalachinsky, David Cameron, Joshua Beckman, James Hoff, Wanda Phipps, Toma Savage, Julien Poirier, Jeffrey Joe Nelson, Filip Marinovic, Joanna Fuhrman, and more). and music provided by our friends: Tyondai Braxton I Feel Tractor Tim Barnes & Steve Dalachinsky Right Angle / Wrong Angle The Shadow Maps Tuesday, DECEMBER 17, 2002 (8 to LATE) [FREE] & things will be given away at LOW, under RICE 81 Washington St. between Front St. & York St. DUMBO, Brooklyn 718-222-1LOW F to York St. A/C to High St./B'lyn Bridge www.riceny.com/low let me know if you need anything: Matvei yan@pobox.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 19:47:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: story MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII story { for ( i = nf; >=1;i--)printf %s , i;\n;} /[0]+/ print it turned /[z]+/ or the sky /[y]+/ something moved on /[x]+/ changed shape /[w]+/ /[v]+/ spewed /[u]+/ brilliant sparkling things /[t]+/ flooded /[s]+/ dark waves of shapes /[r]+/ they /[q]+/ them /[p]+/ /[o]+/ were /[n]+/ stars far too bright /[m]+/ brightened behind sparklings /[l]+/ /[k]+/ particles /[j]+/ in against /[i]+/ among between /[h]+/ repetitions across surfaces /[g]+/ moving and repeating within /[f]+/ veering horizons collisions /[e]+/ fragility /[d]+/ circulating momentarily /[c]+/ always without /[b]+/ appearances disappearances /[a]+/ pulling everything /^/ was turning | srand @a=(hard, soft, difficult, easy, blue, grey, white, black, heavy, light, miserable, sexual, wet, lubricated, hungered, nasty, splayed, womanly, manly, neutral, neutered, death-like, lively, protruding, penetrating, thrusting, giving, forgiving, poor, rich, sedate, wanton, contrary, wayward, wandering, ill, uneasy, spry, florid, edgy, neurotic, psychotic, catatonic, loose, taut, tight, depressed, manic); @prep= (beneath within, beyond, throughout, confusing, staining, collusion with); @noun=(thing, type, category, being, entity, constitution, makeup, construct, essence, existence); \none second!\n;exit(0);}sleep(2); \nhi! what's your name?\nwell, that, let's get started! make gender!\n; sleep(1); that ok with you?\noh well, nothing happened.\n it's impossible to decide behavior!, \n 1==g; time's short, please help us along!, 5==g; you really want do this mean -, 6== g; where is taking us, future?, 4==g; chop name; name terrific gender!, 3==g; disgusts me; forget it! but anyway..., 7==g; that's name? ah, anyway yes, go turns me on!, 2==g; we're breathless; wet diff times!, 5 < < Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: element 7 - malfunction In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit element 7 - malfunction suddenly the inside familiar is a strange zoo for petting storms through walls familiar with pain the clanking turns to a melody merged in a cacophony of established venues for points of view more rounded plush to the tongue types appear after stupid indecision's the "I" keeps an eye on the present(s) of unstable appearances all points lead to post plans for the dead as the living pass the less than horizontal stilled as a flame on a walkway but the literal takes a bit more for the fortune teller to attend to enforcer of the wink representation grinding out minds outside of it forming elements before the eye and before the eyes eyes that form another even in wiggle holes plankton like characters appear tapping out perfectly frank messages upon you shoulders which conforms or neverminds nonconformity and elongated dramatic effects in an expanse of indeterminate vastness a fresh horizon hangs as a parasite in a lazy haze a double tone floating in enigmatic folds that stretches from one horizon to the next displaced to the ocean's depths in chains stilled in the wind chill ice at 32 degrees zero centigrade ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 22:30:09 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nuyopoman@AOL.COM Subject: Bowery Poetry Club Museletter Comments: To: KALAMU@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery @ Bleecker, right across from CBGB's , NY NY 10012 F train to Second Ave | 6 train to Bleecker | 212-614-0505 Dear Friends! The holidays in case you haven't noticed are here -- and may we suggest that you escape them by celebrating with us? Tuesday the 17th, Abaton Books will be in the house with plays, poetry, gift ideas (the cellphone purses! the magic glitter dust!), and the extraordinary poet/singer/fashionista,>Marianne Nowottny & Friends bring you a festive of spirit, nog, and rock. Only 19, Marianne is gonna be a big poet star, and it's a thrill to have her be launching from the Club. Things get underway at 7, go overway at midnight. On Wednesday the 18th the protoRappers, the Deans o' the Scene,THE LAST POETS will be in the house for their First Annual Kwanakuhmas Party. Abiodoun Oyewole and Umar Bin Hassan will be joined by >Jessica Care Moore and Safahri Ra, 8-11. Friday and Saturday the 20th & 21st is ABSOLUTELY YOUR LAST CHANCE to see the "highest energy show in Downtown," "a bite of genius": Uncle Jimmy's Dirty Basement, dada rock puppet musical. Shows are at 8; reservations recommended. Folowing the Friday show the cast hosts the spectacular Uncle Jimmy's Yingle Ball, a freeform performance party with dancing and lots of Jimmy's favorite Yuengling beer. We're closed Christmas Eve and Christmas -- but our New Years Eve Party is a real celebration.James "Blood" Ulmer, the jazz master guitariust will host the event, which also features freestyle (9mprovisational) Rap Goddess Toni Blackman and her band, and an African jeliya (griot/fina) kora/bala ensemble led by Kewulay Kamara. Papa Susso and Bob Holman will do a few griot-poet duets. Following the free champagne toast at midnight, we'll dive right into the New Year the only way we know how -- with the first poetry reading of 2003! Order tickets now: 212-614-0505.Check out our two new po-zine parties: the Parisian "Van Gogh's Ear" on Wednesday (18th, in English) 6-8 and the Russian Magazinnik on Saturday (21st, in Russian) at 4....Our Urbana Slam continues to grow Thursdays at 7:30, followed by our house po'band, Daddy at 11...Mental Notez, on every Wednesday at 11, is developing a hip following for their hiphop aesthetic, as is Playback Theater Sundays at 7....lost but not least -- Taylor Mead, everybody's favorite bad boy, continues his eternal run Friday at 7. Come early for a good seat! CU @ the Club!! Walt ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 01:15:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: song of the triumph of war MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII song of the triumph of war our terrorist violent country of our flesh and blood our killer homeland invasion of worlds and fury the dead and only world the dead and only world country violent terrorist our they'd been hacked to pieces her breasts hacked off her hair shaved off they were repeatedly raped they were hacked in pieces he'd lost half his jaw i swear by god this is the truth his skin burned from his body someone had cut off his nose and ears i swear there's nothing else to say they were still alive when these things happened their mouths and eyes kicked in country violent terrorist our blood and flesh our of her hair shaved off they were hacked in pieces he'd lost half his jaw i swear by god this is the truth his skin burned from his body someone had cut off his nose and ears i swear there's never anything else to say penises stuffed in their mouths they were still alive when these things happened it was impossible not to step through rotting flesh every one had their hands and feet hacked off the flesh fell from their bodies blood and flesh our of the dead and only world invasion homeland killer our her breasts hacked off her hair shaved off they were hacked in pieces he'd lost half his jaw i swear by god this is the truth his skin burned from his body blood poured from her mouth someone had cut off his nose and ears her stomach torn open, her baby torn out i swear there's nothing else to say i swear there's never anything else to say they were still alive when these things happened it was impossible not to step through rotting flesh the flesh fell from their bodies invasion homeland killer our fury and worlds of they'd been hacked to pieces they were set on fire her hair shaved off they were hacked in pieces he'd lost half his jaw i swear by god this is the truth his skin burned from his body someone had cut off his nose and ears penises stuffed in their mouths it was impossible not to step through rotting flesh the flesh fell from their bodies fury and worlds of the dead and only world the dead and only world our terrorist violent country of our flesh and blood our killer homeland invasion of worlds and fury ==== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 01:22:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: litany of war MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII litany of war a the flesh fell from their bodies a b every one had their hands and feet hacked off b cd it was impossible not to step through rotting flesh their mouths and eyes kicked in cd ef penises stuffed in their mouths they were still alive when these things happened ef g we're born programmed with inconceivable madness g h i swear there's never anything else to say h i i swear there's nothing else to say i j their tongues cut out, they screamed j kl someone had cut off his nose and ears her stomach torn open, her baby torn out kl mn his skin burned from his body blood poured from her mouth mn op the children ripped in two i swear by god this is the truth op the dead and only world qr he'd lost half his jaw they were on fire qr st they were repeatedly raped they were hacked in pieces st uv her breasts hacked off her hair shaved off uv w they were set on fire w x their eyes gouged out x y they'd been hacked to pieces y z fell through the rotting corpses z the dead and only world ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 01:56:38 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: will we allow Clarence Thomas to help bend the language out of reach? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Entering the country that is Impenetrably ours." --George Oppen I was listening to NPR commentators discuss Clarence Thomas in conjunction with the recent ruling on cross burning. They stammered their way through half of a polite paragraph PRAISING the ruling and stopped! No real dialogue, no criticism. How do you feel about this poets? I feel very strongly that this ruling is the sinister GENIUS of a fascist government. How perfect is it to BEGIN restricting the actions and language of a people by choosing something NO ONE will DARE speak out against? The level of discomfort with the subject in these two NPR commentators was evident. They even made a point of mentioning HOW LONG AGO the Anita Hill incident was, as if to say everything's OKAY NOW because Clarence has managed to get a grip on his fly. (has anyone else noticed how casual misogyny has become in our post-feminist era? OOPS! I used the F word!) Look, I'm NOT happy about having to defend cross burning, but I feel this giant eraser is DELIBERATELY starting in a blind spot, and will be coming up your street, and mine, one day, very soon. CAConrad ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 23:45:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Rathmann Subject: Re: "good"/"bad" poetry In-Reply-To: <20021215215701.43342.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think the question of good and bad needs to be dealt with concretely, i.e. in relation to particular works, as Jeffrey does with _Culture_. By contrast, most reviews sound as if their authors were trying to supply jacket blurbs. And most blurbs say nothing about the particular achievements of their books. But, insofar as one can draw general conclusions, I think that the most important fact about bad poetry is that it is unwitting. Badness cannot be helped any more than goodness can be taken credit for. I'm not talking about automatism or inspiration, but it does seem that, in this sense, writing really is like dreaming. Here's what I have observed: Even gifted poets usually don't know what they're doing when they write, or whether the results are good. They aren't totally ignorant, of course, but fundamentally they're in the dark. That's why some (or many) are reluctant to speak about "poetics": they know that their writing is not really governed by conscious principles. Or, if they do have principles, they know that these are so general that they explain virtually nothing about what makes an individual poem good. Such poets understand, in other words, the importance of luck and intuition. Yet it does seem that artistic principles really do matter, especially when, as I think Jeffrey is carefully implying, they lead to writing whose badness is egregious and therefore _could_ apparently have been avoided. When a given poetics dominates a scene, writing becomes, as Jeffrey says, "hasty, underdeveloped, not thought through." For my part, I think the poetics of the incomplete sentence, the non-sequitur, the stray quotation -- in short, the "experimental" style in its present incarnation -- generates (and excuses) a huge amount of bad writing (along with the occasional excellence). This badness is slightly infuriating to some of us because it also appeals so clearly to academic notions of value and sophistication. But, that said, I think poets are finally above or beyond blame, because they are -- at their best -- driven by urges and ambitions which make it almost impossible for them to read disinterestedly their own work. The job of saying what is good and bad thus falls to other minds. (End of lecture.) Andy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 01:49:29 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: will we allow Clarence Thomas to help bend the language out of reach? In-Reply-To: <19e.db6612f.2b2ed326@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" CAConrad wrote: >I was listening to NPR commentators discuss Clarence Thomas in conjunction >with the recent ruling on cross burning. They stammered their way through >half of a polite paragraph PRAISING the ruling and stopped! No real >dialogue, no criticism. How do you feel about this poets? > >I feel very strongly that this ruling is the sinister GENIUS of a fascist >government. How perfect is it to BEGIN restricting the actions and language >of a people by choosing something NO ONE will DARE speak out against? > >The level of discomfort with the subject in these two NPR commentators was >evident. They even made a point of mentioning HOW LONG AGO the Anita Hill >incident was, as if to say everything's OKAY NOW because Clarence has managed >to get a grip on his fly. (has anyone else noticed how casual misogyny has >become in our post-feminist era? OOPS! I used the F word!) > >Look, I'm NOT happy about having to defend cross burning, but I feel this >giant eraser is DELIBERATELY starting in a blind spot, and will be coming up >your street, and mine, one day, very soon. Uh, that was just oral arguments, a hearing, before the Supreme Court, not a ruling. The Court won't issue a decision on this issue until sometime in the spring. Bests, Herb -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 02:57:36 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: will we allow Clarence Thomas to help bend the language out of reach? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/16/2002 2:52:32 AM, herb@ESKIMO.COM writes: << Uh, that was just oral arguments, a hearing, before the Supreme Court, not a ruling. The Court won't issue a decision on this issue until sometime in the spring. >> Actually, that's why my subject line reads "will we allow..." I goofed in the meat of the e-mail. anyway, besides that, how the hell do you feel about it? CAConrad ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 00:53:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: clubloop #0001 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE PAUL WHITNEY COLLECTION clubloop #0001..................excerpt muse please your verse chant for me kilobyte between man These old walls will noisy soon urgent modems Gab divide pass japan liability Ida underscore identify rose chair cliff whitewashed stones one can same evening Elzevir left Why? icy users lath leftward Perhaps muse please your verse chant for me muse please your verse chant for me north penmen rhino ourselves true one another knowing halo swing leave 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slain palate worshipful gentleman must become famous envy terrace courtyard envy palate worshipful gentleman must become palate worshipful gentleman must become maize haven urine prank conjecture remotely prank conjecture remotely Ulr radium palate worshipful gentleman must become sale slander passage Ruhaybah rivulet Dhumayr ratio will parliament wild ways afterwards led poor will notice careless voices knowing cause sale slander passage Ruhaybah rivulet Dhumayr Besides sometimes frightens may live requite impertinent may live requite entity wot will serve den pay firewood even football leadpencil lobster nosegay football pay firewood repeat onion deliberate will make something worst throws uncertain parts distant capital brave love each other uncertain parts distant capital life bereft fell design repeat onion saddle transitive better porter earthquake enough hole stand open through day same key sensation path leads up Weatherbeech made same key dollar prostitute whirligig saddle transitive better one base sin hath done less ill already slain throne fancy handkerchief already slain one Master Ratsey headstones set drastic rhythm shall know palate --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.427 / Virus Database: 240 - Release Date: 12/6/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 00:56:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: clubloop #0002 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit THE PAUL WHITNEY COLLECTION clubloop #0002..................excerpt muse please your verse chant for me wife dare speak because Intelligence reptile reproach overheating One Council nuisance something liability past fear portents can tell Forbear banquet all plotters constantly everlasting fade Advice all artful Method making happy palate users Hall Palace illuminated hind Sickness knew support Saleable muse please your verse chant for me muse please your verse chant for me All farewells sudden Estate Power make amends sending neither vent Clamour flatter Advice all artful Method making fancy whole external world neither vent Clamour flatter kind concern perfect Harmony will venture say One Council One Council notification hissing scoff unto nations kind spool orthodox Sar punctuate popular himself all World deserting Man liability past fear portents can tell Behold order assembled Ten liability past fear portents can tell obvious punctuate popular himself all World deserting Man perceived old Woman Think single soldier arm some start up confusion station Lioni Advice all artful Method making corner Acquaintance went Country Advice all artful Method making some start up confusion eternal Mark ill Nature endeavoured myriad users Hall Palace illuminated reentrancy users Hall Palace illuminated evident marry programmer eternal Mark ill Nature endeavoured plug Estate Power make amends sending handlers Hard lofty rock free Estate Power make amends sending secular plug plug dissuade neither vent Clamour flatter seasoning miner pip neither vent Clamour flatter leave nobler monument Egypt plug Seventy Pounds kind little spare Bed kind differ compliment peddle salesman Because something nothing iodine presentation manager shipwrecks zephyr ladybug peddle salesman lay more mad Man last unconquerable punctuate popular himself all World deserting Man punctuate popular himself all World deserting Man full Share even imaginary Griefs lay more sacrificial altar long groan Shall ere recovers Gently tend some start up confusion Orgueil afraid spoiled arising-tax negotiate heel some start up confusion tradition groan Shall ere recovers Gently tend word interactive ink shawl eternal Mark ill Nature endeavoured enlargement eternal Mark ill Nature endeavoured prove Round thee thine word Order horse space enough plug manslaughter plug Company enough fancy Affection Order horse space enough customs understood sat one stupified soon heard plug plug concured toward strengthening customs understood blood dishonoured himself Society other Property whatever May retire? blood dishonoured himself sprite Hush perhaps may catch sound simplest statistics peddle salesman soft dreams peddle salesman sprite Hush perhaps may catch sound Now Jove praised lay more lay more Wish conducive lives knows Olympus yes love Exert wisely bi-lingual lives knows Olympus yes love envy liturgy groan Shall ere recovers Gently tend oceanica possible groan Shall ere recovers Gently tend wrought give Credit Pretence envy prank conjecture remotely Even proud imperial statue stands word soul seems lukewarm set word prank conjecture remotely whilst powerful God Part Deity incapable Order horse space enough lights decipher contour Order horse space enough monkshood whilst powerful God Part Deity true value heart easterly Ber customs understood unfaithful honor ontario customs understood endeavour expel true value heart football blood dishonoured himself blood dishonoured himself exceed female football Cynthia oh gratify Inclinations Conversation sprite Hush perhaps may catch sound orders sprite Hush perhaps may catch sound twist dough Cynthia same key continually delivered hope rat same key same key Resolution Wife very lives knows Olympus yes love conversation erroneous lives knows Olympus yes love singel-user operation same key palate Doge prevent envy olives dark- room snow envy priceworthy previously youth palate Doge obliging Behaviour all Children prank conjecture remotely dispute Orgueil Henrietta time seized prank conjecture remotely whose name million caps flung sale slander Instant rejoicing doing joint affirm verily whilst powerful God Part Deity négligé emergency rather Proof whilst powerful God Part Deity fool sale slander Instant rejoicing promise true value heart true value heart pastel recline fanfare implore shrapnel Pressed nobler weight e'er bore football nasty court football flesh larger implore repeat onion Enjoyment innocent Cynthia Avogadori all proofs on- products Hath piled brick mountains o'er Cynthia repeat onion saddle transitive Box House Madam seem pleased documents odd force same key same key few friends revelled till saddle transitive Box House Madam seem pleased ships pianoforte one same key --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.427 / Virus Database: 240 - Release Date: 12/6/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 04:01:17 -0500 Reply-To: men2@columbia.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss Subject: Re: [imitationpoetics] long poem and Wellstone & prpaganda anthology Comments: To: Webartery List , ImitaPo Memebers In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I rather liked this! Don't know if it's "good" Don't know if that matters... I don't like sports myself, but I remmeber how that baseball game erased the death of wellstone in the news and the public eye and no one has said why the plane crashed. Wellstone was one of my personal heroes; I had heard him speak (boringly like a senator, but intensely and fervently in favor of my cause, and he came to local events not just national ones, including in the notheast despite being from MN. He really appeared to believe in the right things personally, not as a way to get elected (in fat he might not have gotten reelected). He was the only senator against the first Gulf War in the vote on that in the Senate, and he was one of the few fervently against this war. And he was fighting MS and never told anyone or exploited it, unike the rightwingers with their long-healed war wounds who aren't going to die of them. I guess given that, he was spared a rather awful end, but he had a long time left. It seems almost disrespectful to his memory to be upset that his death gave us a Republican and maybe was the final straw in them taking the senate, but certainly that is very upsetting. Now there will be nothing to stop the president from carpet bombing the world. On another note, I heard on the radio about an anthology about "being an american" produced by the US Information Service which will be used as foreign propaganda to tell the world what America is like. It will not be available in the US --- in fact it is ILLEGAL to sell works designated as "for foreigners" in the US. They intervuiewed an Arab American writer who contrbuted, and she apparently wrote about life in an american school and being made fun of and teased, and the "magic door" between her house and the other kids houses, which she would become aware of when they talked of Barbies and birthday parties -- in her house it was the veil and women separate and so forth (so I gathered, this point wasn't made explicit). They are delibetely including work like that to make the anthology realistic and also because it shows how she overcame it and became a writer and radio producer. She was asked if she felt that contributing to such an anthology was betraying her culture and she said she's thought about it and that if she didn't do it somebody else would, perhaps less honestly... Several people of note contributed to this propaganda rag including (naturally) Billy Collins. I have not read a word of his and have felt I could not take part in bashing him therefore except that I have looked at his books in the store and found the little I saw to be quite commonplace. Also, when I look in the C's I am looking for Clark Coolidge, Brenda Coultas, Nicholas Christoper, possibly even Tom Clark -- all of whom will be absent but there will be a big pile of Billy books. I feel ok being nasty since he contributed to the propaganda rag. The US governemnet hopes it will be taught as a literature textbook in colleges and schools. It will be made available at very advantageous terms, especially in key countries... Millie -----Original Message----- From: Joe Safdie [mailto:jsafdie@attbi.com] Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 11:07 PM To: ImitaPo Memebers Subject: [imitationpoetics] long poem Imitation Poetics ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This is, um, not *just* about baseball . . . apologies for the length . . . would appreciate any comment. __________________________________________________ GAME SIX We should all move to Canada and say what we think of the current situation, because obviously it can't be done here. If a poet could speak, we wouldn't understand him/her--due to the way the reception has been constructed. ---Barrett Watten we can't write after the fact - only during it - ---Alan Sondheim This is the apotheosis now where love conquers all but she wasn't talking about the Giants on the brink of winning the Series, but Swan Lake, a Bolshoi performance we'll see on Halloween, all thoughts of baseball having faded in the splendor of the pagan New Year . . . poetry as chronicle has to also chart what's timeless, like marriage, not just a moment's attraction, but why walk Bonds in the first inning? Russ Ortiz, California Native, family and friends in the stands, the north-south rivalry that once seemed so important when I was living in California becomes mere rhetoric . . . Wellstone's death already forgotten in the political equation, anti-war rallies not covered by major media like Fox where the occasional jerkiness of this telecast reminds us how artificial and mediated the "coverage" really is -- unlike Homer's poetry for example which tried so mightily to preserve the fragility, the attention to the moment, and was blown away by Plato's abstraction . . . "lovers, or poets, who might prefer the concrete world have little chance of survival in this New Republic" Who? sabotaged Wellstone's plane sorry, Amiri -- the extremities of the moment do force paranoid speculation, even in the midst of our grief how odd to hear the words "the Giants, if they win one more, will be World Champions" no score bottom of the third -- Ortiz the Gemini looking strong, and at 6:00 PM Bonds walks -- like Achilles -- the angels fleeing in terror (Appier needs a Viagra commercial) marriage means not having any- more to worry about in that regard, and Havelock reassures us "such is the art of the encyclopedic minstrel who as he reports also maintains the social and moral apparatus of an oral culture" like marriage -- Achilles outraged that his mistress was usurped by Agamemnon, the power of the State -- CBS covers the October 12 Demonstrations but only by comparing them, unfavorably, to those of the sixties, ball one and strike one to Sanders, baseball possibly only a few hours to live, like an affair when seen through the lens of marriage "today's students are more concerned about their resumes -- they want to get a job" Shawann!!! 6:22 El Tiempo Pacifico how about that DH rule? monkeys and ape (eeyers) to angels, but they skipped humans! Nothing brings back Wellstone, but I'm happy for Shawann, his son sitting happily on his lap "an encyclopedic vision with which goes a total acceptance of the mores of society, and an affection for its thought-forms" it is how I think Homer must have worked Ortiz the Gemini looking strong 28 years old Saturn in early Cancer like the moon tonight and BONDS! obligatory kiss to the son "He profoundly accepts this society, not by personal choice but because of his fundamental role as recorder and preserver" . . . "The furniture in the house may undergo some rearrangement but there cannot be a manufacture of new furniture. If we ask: Why then is he not dull? we should reply perhaps that he would be dull if he performed those functions as would a literate poet composing for readers. But he is an oral poet composing according to psychological laws which were unique, which have literally ceased to exist at least in Europe and the West." Mrs. Autry waves the monkey touched by an angel "a piece of reporting becomes a dramatic device" the rats -- distant cousins to Mickey Mouse -- rattle in the drop ceiling above us two balls two strikes to Salmon 7:11 PM and Ortiz strikes him out looking! Fox keeps showing promos for "24," but, you know, those hours have already been filmed (unlike this report) "artistic creation as we understand the term is a much simpler thing than the epic performance and it is one which implies the separation of the artist from political and social action" I didn't go to the demonstration watched the World Series instead "he waited 39 years for the biggest hit of his life" Dunston born in the early sixties when the movement was pure LOFTON! another home run the Giants now appear to have won the World Series this is the apotheosis now when love conquers all the angels revealing themselves as mere monkeys, Darwin was right after all, this is, let's not forget, Orange County, birthplace of Richard Nixon and the most rabid Republicans known to man, the kind that would sabotage Wellstone's plane Michael Eisner looking on as Spezio hits it out is it a Disney finish after all? my fucking god are they going to blow this again? it may seem strange to say but a poetics of the moment depends on the moment and demands astrology but Salmon singles before I can look up his chart Jesus! 5-4 Nen in why can't this team win? the pitching change allows me to check the ephemeris Nen born under Sagittarius like the Ape Eyer but GLAUS! this is an embarrassing collapse you can't lose a five nothing lead in the seventh! Shit! I didn't see this coming unlike the encyclopedic minstrel but could I handle the Giants winning am I ready for that apotheosis? obviously not I can't decide between my wife and my lover in the city of the angels Orpheus bringing on Christianity teaching Plato all he knew after the forms could Jesus be far behind? the spin for Game Seven: the (Giant) pagans vs. the (fantasy) Angels and no more daylight savings . . . "you're not allowed to have two wives you know" advice to Cary Grant in *My Second Wife* (tuned to after the debacle finally ends) this movie is really silly said my wife --- You are currently subscribed to imitationpoetics as: men2@columbia.edu List Info: http://listserv.unc.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=ImitationPoetics ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 22:00:44 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: will we allow Clarence Thomas to help bend the language out of reach? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I didnt see it obviously being about 20,000 miles away; but its doesnt sound good. They pick on something quite obvious: earlier they banned some funny adverts with Bush in them: thy have the Homeland Security; in NZ and Australia the same very draconian anti-terrorist laws apply: people can be held without trial or even without a lawyer; I can see that the facade of democracy will collapse; we need Barakas and others like the Berrigans; despite what Harry Nudel says ( I am affable with Harry back chennel but we disagreee); things are not good...Patrick Herron can tell you...he was warning me before S11. I foresee a super fascist state geared to the benefit of the very rich: it will be more subtle than Hitler's attempt, but it will work, it will be possibly world wide ...democracy ...weak as it already is...will phased out in favour of the TELEVSION AND COMPUTER GENERATED ILLUSION of democracy. The US will ahmmer who theyb want. The working people of the world will suffer more. There will be more wars unless people get organised and unified against the Bush and teh Republicans and Blair and Israel (the present regime there) and Russia. Journalists if they arent payed of will be threatened and cowed: ,amy will stay silent "trustingrto Congree" and d"due prosess as others are led away into jails. No trials. You now have Georgian Stalinism: watch it grow!! Unles there are mass protests and counterattacks by the people. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Allen Conrad" To: Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 8:57 PM Subject: Re: will we allow Clarence Thomas to help bend the language out of reach? > In a message dated 12/16/2002 2:52:32 AM, herb@ESKIMO.COM writes: > > << Uh, that was just oral arguments, a hearing, before the Supreme > Court, not a ruling. The Court won't issue a decision on this issue > until sometime in the spring. > >> > > Actually, that's why my subject line reads "will we allow..." > I goofed in the meat of the e-mail. > anyway, besides that, how the hell do you feel about it? > CAConrad ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 06:01:46 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Currently on the Blog Comments: To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, WOM-PO Comments: cc: whpoets@english.upenn.edu, nanders1@swarthmore.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Starting a longpoem: Rachel Blau DuPlessis' Drafts On the postmodern wink: Why humor doesn't travel well in poetry It's a wise book that understands its cover: Three book designs from Lost Roads (Frank Stanford, Besmilr Brigham &Frank Stanford) Getting ready to listen: The lessons of jazz vs. the problem of regional dialects (How do you read J.H. Prynne?) George Stanley's Vancouver - The epic as journal & the poetry of transit The Poker: Generational anxiety in the age of 114,287 book titles per year David Markson's Wittgenstein's Mistress: With whom does a reader identify in the writing? Jennifer Moxley's The Sense Record: Writing against fashion Rachel Blau DuPlessis: A master demonstrates how to give a reading Poor Geoffrey Hill! http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 07:10:02 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Baraka and the Cross... I don;t want to go here...Baraka, Burning Crosses, 1st Amendment...Demeagoguery not only incites violence against the other...it often forces the OTHER to respond in kind...et tu Amiri... I got an e yesterday from a Poetics Poster that was off the wall..the genocide in Rwanda was fueled by radio incitement...just words... Wasting time before the Jet Game..i was chanel hopping when i accidentally caught Baraka on the Gil Noble show...you can get a transcript...one of the innumberable public forums he's had...i think Amiri could use some Down Time...a Little Meditation...and A Walk in the Park..i know this is a racism & none of my biz... Just for the record i find the Holocaust Chic and Career of Eli Weisel just as offensive as Baraka's Racism Chic..there are the lowest rings in hell for people who trafik in the suffering of others..harry... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 11:06:50 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: "good"/"bad" poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think I was with you much of the way on this, Andrew; and then, having said we need to be concrete by referring to particulars (particular works, you said), you became general with _the incomplete sentence, the non-sequitur, the stray quotation -- in short, the "experimental" style_ I am unclear what the "present incarnation" is in connection with incomplete sentences. I was reading some Lee Harwood recently, and I dont think that's what you mean, but he's still writing. Incomplete sentences have been around a long time and often they are no more incomplete than sentences in the spoken language The non-sequitur? Disjunction, you mean? No? Anyway,old as the built-on hills Like the previous, these are the mechanics rather than the style itself. Stray quotation? Would that be a quotation the relevance of which you do not understand? Otherwise, who decides it is stray? Concrete references would have helped comprehension, as you indicate. "Experimental" is a useless term, meaningless; and putting it in quotes won't help that. Or whom are you quoting? A style which does not experiment is likely to be a dead style though it may be a fertile basis for someone who wishes to say "This is good... this isn't" (excluding the rather careful Jeffrey made) All styles, all approaches, lead to bad writing. Look at what was written at the time at any time and the bulk of it is shit; and some of it is good, but most of that is missed at the time by the arbiters of good and bad often *because they use absolute terms arrived at by undisclosed judgements L ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Rathmann" To: Sent: 16 December 2002 07:45 Subject: Re: "good"/"bad" poetry ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 06:37:12 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: will we allow Clarence Thomas to help bend the language out of reach? In-Reply-To: <30.334d65af.2b2ee170@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" CAConrad wrote: >In a message dated 12/16/2002 2:52:32 AM, herb@ESKIMO.COM writes: > ><< Uh, that was just oral arguments, a hearing, before the Supreme >Court, not a ruling. The Court won't issue a decision on this issue >until sometime in the spring. > >> > >Actually, that's why my subject line reads "will we allow..." >I goofed in the meat of the e-mail. >anyway, besides that, how the hell do you feel about it? >CAConrad I think there're enough other attacks on the 1st amendment in various legislative acts and executive actions that are already actively going right now, that it's hard for me to get too worked up about a possible judicial decision several months ahead of time. -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 07:07:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: Duc Thuan: The Box and its freedom Comments: cc: webartery , rhizome , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Duc Thuan: The Box and its freedom http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/15239/97110 The net being a medium that transcends boundaries, I've often wondered why so much of the net art and digital literature I see is either American, British, or Canadian... Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 08:55:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: Re: "good"/"bad" poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Lawrence Upton "most of that is missed at the time by the arbiters of good and bad often *because they use absolute terms arrived at by undisclosed judgements " This is quite true..."good"/"bad" proclamations always depend on a community of users, and these communities routinely proclaim their own members practioners of the "good"---I tend to resist this sort of thing, this parsing in dualities, because it too often is linked to group thought: instead, I try to define what I like about a particular work, and what I dislike about a particular work--which does not lead to any useful poetics, of course, but does make an attempt to widen criteria beyond those acceptable to a certain group of people...I've seen a lot of what I would consider bad poetry produced by those with great reputations--these works would be declared good by those in certain communities because it's been agreed upon by the community that they like this author's work--(this is painfully evident in hypermedia)...so, really, nine times out of ten, I suspect that these communities don't even need to read or examine work they consider good---it comes about solely via cult of personality-- ---as for Mr. Silliman's remarks that "bad poetry is possible in the post-avant mode--just sign onto the poetics list for a while"--well, you can't please everyone--I for one work only on pleasing myself, which is hard enough-- as for there Mr. Rathman's remarks: I would agree, to a point==I've always wanted to see more synthesis in contemporary poetry, rather than more disjunction--I've always wanted a smoother disjunction--of course, my own work is heardly "experimental" (& i agree with lawrence that this is a useless term, fit only for those who wish to dismiss a poetry because of it's resistence to closure, which is often distasteful to mono-logical palettes (heh heh)...)===but my tastes change day by day, & i strive to write that way... bliss l ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 12:11:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: death warrant for abortion... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/South/12/14/abortion.trial.ap/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 12:13:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: the fcc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.democraticmedia.org/issues/mediaownership/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:56:14 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: irish poet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII HI list. i know that there are a few irish on this list. and probably some sympathisers. I'm reading at a festival with Paul Durcan in March.Has anyone heard him read? Can anyone recommend a book? Caoimhin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 19:16:33 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wild Honey Press Subject: Re: irish poet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Caoimhin, I've hear Paul D. in action a few times, a wonderful reader. His selected _A Snail In My Prime_, Harvill 1993, Glasgow, ISBN 0-000271323-3, gives a substantial gathering of work. best Randolph Healy ----- Original Message ----- From: "K.Angelo Hehir" To: Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 6:26 PM Subject: irish poet > HI list. > > i know that there are a few irish on this list. > > and probably some sympathisers. > > I'm reading at a festival with Paul Durcan in March.Has anyone heard him > read? Can anyone recommend a book? > > Caoimhin > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 11:18:12 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Murphy Subject: something Nick mentioned MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Referring to James, I think, "to be kind" thrice, reinforces, resurfaces, shall we say, a value that I think so very useful, in addition to its more glowing properties. Thinking aloud here, I used to say how much I resented the loss of any time and energy I felt I needed to devote to defense or bully-thwarting. I still feel this way. Despite a firm commitment to placing attention on the more luxurious aspects of living and perceiving, there have been and will continue to be times when immersion in refined thought/feeling is sacrificed to struggles in the mud. One strategy is to invest in the possibility of being able to "afford" long spaces away from the grit and grime involved in fending off predators. All this moves on into and through the "good and bad" poetry issue. A lot of time is likely wasted on campaigning in favor of something that ought to persuade various ones by the nature of itself. I'm far less interested in making proclamations of "no value" than I am in celebrating what works, in whatever way that word might mean. It has also occurred to me that it generally takes far more perspicacity to discern what is "right" about a thing than what is "wrong." sheila murphy of maricopa county __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 11:24:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Safdie Joseph Subject: Longish political poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" This might be a "bad" poem -- like Andrew said earlier today, I can't quite tell. It's certainly longish, for which I apologize, as well as "political" -- I think -- so it's a first response to Gary and Jeffrey's comments (and Ryan Whyte before them) for a post of mine some weeks ago. And it's not just about baseball. And happy holidays . . . Joe Safdie GAME SIX we can't write after the fact - only during it - ---Alan Sondheim This is the apotheosis now where love conquers all but she wasn't talking about the Giants on the brink of winning the Series, but Swan Lake, a Bolshoi performance we'll see on Halloween, all thoughts of baseball having faded in the splendor of the pagan New Year . . . poetry as chronicle has to also chart what's timeless, like marriage, not just a moment's attraction, but why walk Bonds in the first inning? Russ Ortiz, California Native, family and friends in the stands, the north-south rivalry that once seemed so important when I was living in California becomes mere rhetoric . . . Wellstone's death already forgotten in the political equation, anti-war rallies not covered by major media like Fox where the occasional jerkiness of this telecast reminds us how artificial and mediated the "coverage" really is -- unlike Homer's poetry for example which tried so mightily to preserve the fragility, the attention to the moment, and was blown away by Plato's abstraction . . . "lovers, or poets, who might prefer the concrete world have little chance of survival in this New Republic" Who? sabotaged Wellstone's plane sorry, Amiri -- the extremities of the moment do force paranoid speculation, even in the midst of our grief how odd to hear the words "the Giants, if they win one more, will be World Champions" no score bottom of the third -- Ortiz the Gemini looking strong, and at 6:00 PM Bonds walks -- like Achilles -- the angels fleeing in terror (Appier needs a Viagra commercial) marriage means not having any- more to worry about in that regard, and Havelock reassures us "such is the art of the encyclopedic minstrel who as he reports also maintains the social and moral apparatus of an oral culture" like marriage -- Achilles outraged that his mistress was usurped by Agamemnon, the power of the State -- CBS covers the October 12 Demonstrations but only by comparing them, unfavorably, to those of the sixties, ball one and strike one to Sanders, baseball possibly only a few hours to live, like an affair when seen through the lens of marriage "today's students are more concerned about their resumes -- they want to get a job" Shawann!!! 6:22 El Tiempo Pacifico how about that DH rule? monkeys and ape (eeyers) to angels, but they skipped humans! Nothing brings back Wellstone, but I'm happy for Shawann, his son sitting happily on his lap "an encyclopedic vision with which goes a total acceptance of the mores of society, and an affection for its thought-forms" it is how I think Homer must have worked Ortiz the Gemini looking strong 28 years old Saturn in early Cancer like the moon tonight and BONDS! obligatory kiss to the son "He profoundly accepts this society, not by personal choice but because of his fundamental role as recorder and preserver" . . . "The furniture in the house may undergo some rearrangement but there cannot be a manufacture of new furniture. If we ask: Why then is he not dull? we should reply perhaps that he would be dull if he performed those functions as would a literate poet composing for readers. But he is an oral poet composing according to psychological laws which were unique, which have literally ceased to exist at least in Europe and the West." Mrs. Autry waves the monkey touched by an angel "a piece of reporting becomes a dramatic device" the rats -- distant cousins to Mickey Mouse -- rattle in the drop ceiling above us two balls two strikes to Salmon 7:11 PM and Ortiz strikes him out looking! Fox keeps showing promos for "24," but, you know, those hours have already been filmed (unlike this report) "artistic creation as we understand the term is a much simpler thing than the epic performance and it is one which implies the separation of the artist from political and social action" I didn't go to the demonstration watched the World Series instead "he waited 39 years for the biggest hit of his life" Dunston born in the early sixties when the movement was pure LOFTON! another home run the Giants now appear to have won the World Series this is the apotheosis now when love conquers all the angels revealing themselves as mere monkeys, Darwin was right after all, this is, let's not forget, Orange County, birthplace of Richard Nixon and the most rabid Republicans known to man, the kind that would sabotage Wellstone's plane Michael Eisner looking on as Spezio hits it out is it a Disney finish after all? my fucking god are they going to blow this again? it may seem strange to say but a poetics of the moment depends on the moment and demands astrology but Salmon singles before I can look up his chart Jesus! 5-4 Nen in why can't this team win? the pitching change allows me to check the ephemeris Nen born under Sagittarius like the Ape Eyer but GLAUS! this is an embarrassing collapse you can't lose a five nothing lead in the seventh! Shit! I didn't see this coming unlike the encyclopedic minstrel but could I handle the Giants winning am I ready for that apotheosis? obviously not I can't decide between my wife and my lover in the city of the angels Orpheus bringing on Christianity teaching Plato all he knew after the forms could Jesus be far behind? the spin for Game Seven: the (Giant) pagans vs. the (fantasy) Angels and no more daylight savings . . . "you're not allowed to have two wives you know" advice to Cary Grant in My Second Wife (tuned to after the debacle finally ends) this movie is really silly said my wife ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 11:35:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Re: Longish political poem In-Reply-To: <9664F36261DE32409334B83B21CAEE8E08D016@luxor.lwtc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IDENTITY / GENDER / QUEER THEORY kari edwards I hold the unique position of a gender voyeur, disidentifying = with=20 the system, but still very much a part of the system which gives me a=20 unique vision of the world inaccessible to insiders. as a writer I attempt to disidentifying from the "narrative" and = use=20 it at the same time to test the limits of its intelligibly, truth, and=20= reality of societal taboos. I write from the fringes of what is seen as=20= recognizable, not where gender and sexuality are defined in a neat=20 bipolar package. language has become a mac-speak, simple classifications for=20 everything, you=92re a number two with a side order of fries. these=20 classifications (never names . . . [but] one classes someone else) are=20= bound up with force and violence, placing one in set of relationship[s]=20= structured through sanctions and taboos ever present in a gendercentric=20= society, especially when the difference between "women" and "men". we continue to believe in the myth that "men" and "women" have = always=20 existed and will always exist, and that the categories of male and=20 female are based on anatomical criteria - which are neither universal=20 nor valid concepts. are you then amazed that the history books have excluded or = =93newly=94=20 discovered as parenthetical's to human development; the hijras of india=20= who have existed outside the gender binary for a thousand years, the=20 first nation=92s two spirit people, the castrated gallaes (who date back=20= to the stone age), the gender transformations in ovid=92s = metamorphosis,=20 pope joan, the sapphist and molly=92s who were considered a third and=20= fourth gender, and or the drag queens at stone wall. Whenever there are two [genders], a third cannot be far behind, = and=20 where there is a third, there can be a forth and a fifth and so on. we=20= want to think gender is solid, and that there is an absolute=20 segregation between genders, but then that would deny the existence of=20= those who are intersexed, and the numerous types of chromosome=20 configurations. if we continue to insist on this segregation by=20 personal pronouns, we will continue to perpetrate a reliance on the=20 slave master relationship. we might say, one is not born a woman [or man, but] becomes one = . .=20 . [one then could say,] if one chooses, [one could choose to] become=20 neither female or male, woman or man. If human beings have constructed=20= and used gender - human beings can deconstruct and stop using gender.=20 the most obvious way would be to deliberately and self consciously not=20= use gender. what I am suggesting here, is that we call into question the = structure=20 . . . [in] which we recognize each other as human[s]. We are living in an historical discursive moment in which our=20 language has run out, maybe its so beyond our words that we don't know=20= how to talk about it. we need to recognize that there is no longer a=20 stable binary, when men have vaginas and women have penises. when we=20 can surgically alter and or strap on theme and variation genitalia=20 beyond most peoples imagination and where sexual encounters are no=20 longer held tightly in categories of gay, lesbian, straight, bisexual,=20= transgender, but multi-locations of desire. gender then can become an action that requires a new vocabulary. If each person has their own individual perception to time and = space which is based on relationships to the objects, then could this not=20 also so be said of a person relationship to gender, sexuality or even=20 language? If [we] continue to speak of ourselves and conceive of ourselves = as=20 women and men, we deny each and every person their individual=20 relationship to (language), space, time and gender. We need to imagine another body, capable of living beyond the=20 incompleteness of what we designate as real . . . alive in its own=20 name, in its own words, where everyone exists as an individual, as well=20= as a member of a community. it is time to take the next radical step in=20= dismantling a history of segregation by insisting that there is such a=20= thing as a proper language, proper gender and proper sexuality. Text collaged from the following text: Jamake Highwater, Mythology of=20= transgression; Kate Bornstein, Gender Outlaw, on men, women and the=20 rest of us; Monique Wittig, The Straight Mind; Jacques Derrida, Of=20 Grammatology; Sarah Cooper, Relating to Queer Theory: Rereading Sexual=20= Self-Definition with Inigaray, Kristiva, Wittig and Cixous; Judith=20 Butler, Gender Trouble: Feminism and the Subversion of Identity;=20 Gilbert Herdt, Third Sex Third Gender: Beyond Sexual Dimorphism in=20 Culture and History; Alluquere Roseanne Stone, The War of Desire and=20 Technology at the close of the Mechanical age; Judith Lorber, Paradox=20 of Gender; C. Jacob Hale, Consuming the Living Dis(re)membering the=20 Dead in the Butch/Ftm Borderlands; Jason Cromwell, Transmen & FTMs:=20 Identities, Bodies, Genders & Sexualites; Antonio Porta, Dream & Other=20= Identities; Elizebeth Grosz, Space, Time and Perversion; Will Roscoe,=20 Changing ones: Third and Forth Genders in Native North America.= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:39:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Gallagher Subject: Re: Longish political poem MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT FRESCOES (left to right) I Flowers through a chain-link fence Are monkeys shaking hands from a cage. A Panamanian with tartar skin And wrinkles of fresh cut wood Points to an altar un-altered by bombs, His open smile is a rocking boat. The gringo with a Lonely Planet asks “Why don’t you hate us?” Dandelion puffs float in flocks of wishes. II A cardinal wiggles through the wind Like a goldfish dipping in a bowl. Schools of dry leaves paper airplane. Geese hover, black origami, Then drop like arrows for a rain. Behind the shades, Father Meenan whispers To the high school girl that she can be A Bride of Christ if she closes her eyes And feels the physical nature of the Lord. Stars in the sky, the snipped tips Of the marionette strings. III. A bald punk rocker screams at the eclipse: “You burning bastard! It’s about time your white brother came and blackened your eye!” His head, a light bulb mooning a crude oil night. IV. A shovel bells bedrock but houses grow And fashions get painted over again. Melees of Spanish, Italian, English and pig Latin tightrope clotheslines And lace triple-deckers. Chilis instead of tomato, Pesto instead of guacamole? American instead of chop-suey. V. The sails of distant ships are shark fins. The waves, tame infantry in green, March to shore to land on their knees. Max stands in the middle screaming Form is only an extension of content. From the right waves gallop with white manes, Trampling the lobster knight. Twin lighthouses painted as candles flicker overhead. VI. Graffiti in red on a wall: DEATH IS SO FAR AWAY FROM ME IF I GOT THERE I’D BE LOST. VII. Legions of children in soccer uniforms Are linked like paper cut-out kids And wait in line for “The Art of Pele the King.” (They made balls from socks And practiced penalty kicks) A goalie stands in front of the goal Like a gun on a tank. Pele scores in black and white And dots their eyes. And why do they hate us? VIII. A kitchen window is wide open. The newspaper, a taught Sail in your hands. The eggs on the frying pan Are fresh daisies Floating in a black pool. IX. Windows flash and flicker blue From television sets casting silhouettes Of our heads. Billy Bulger won’t help them find What they are looking for. What a whitey. Oh well. The clouds as tops of ice-cream cones. X. Scratching a head on a pedestal Like a crystal ball, A woman seems to be thinking If we knew what you were thinking You would be easy to know. A big Buick glides under a small sun. A Playboy calendar at the shop Flips as quick as a cartoon book through time. ---Kevin Gallagher ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 12:17:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: on collins & canada In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > poetry...and so on. Mabe we should invite him to explain his philosophy re >> Berrigan on this List ...and hopefully he wouldnt get "flamed"....maybe. > >Richard, if Collins really does have a "philosophy re >Berrigan" I'll eat George Bowering's hat. Okay, but you're not getting my Boston Red Sox cap. -- George Bowering A one-hit wonder Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 15:18:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Gesture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Gesture Why can't you put tree-limbs on the tree-branch house? Because it's against the law. (The humor in this lies in the fact that the joke takes an _unexpected turn_ towards the legality of rites - i.e. it is not based on an absurd ethos, but one, in fact, which makes clear and rational sense.) === ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:30:29 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: something Nick mentioned In-Reply-To: <20021216191812.81724.qmail@web41405.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:18 AM 12/16/2002 -0800, Sheila Murphy wrote: >It has also occurred to me that it generally takes far >more perspicacity to discern what is "right" about a >thing than what is "wrong." Sheila, I posted this once before, four yrs ago. This from THE POLYANTHOS of 1809, an American periodical, from a piece entitled "New Art of Criticism" by Henry Brooke. "RULE I. Find fault, at first sight, with every thing that is published. This is the first and fundamental rule of all good criticism; and is itself founded upon solid reasons. For, 1st. It is ten to one but you are in the right; there being at least ten bad productions published every day, for one good one. 2dly. Because finding fault implies a plain superiority of genius....Claim boldly, then, for criticism hath, in this respect, some resemblence to calumny; and, indeed, it is so like it, in some hands, that none can adept distinguish them; and you know the rule, calumniare fortiter (in English criticise boldly).... It is a clear consequence from this rule, you should always censure those works most, which are thought most to excel.... RULE III. If your own authority is not sufficient to quell opposition, and carry your point; why then, two or three of you join forces, and call yourselves the WORLD -- and the work is done....[A] critic is a judge; and everyone knows, the business of a judge is, not to draw up pleadings, but to pronounce sentence." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 16:47:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrea Baker Subject: FW: 3rd bed #7 In-Reply-To: <20021216202514.WUIR22825.lakemtao04.cox.net@vstandley> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit To all concerned, 3rd bed #7 is now in stores and in my living room. The corresponding webpage has been uploaded @ http://www.3rdbed.com. 3rd bed #7 is filled with seasoned and green wood plus a timeline of food. I hope many of you will find something in its being. --Vincent If you would prefer not being on this list, please reply with remove in the subject line. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 04:34:49 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Platt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CATALOGO 5. PLUSH EXTRA FIRM COOL-FOAM SLEEP WRAP pillows beautifully made with knife open slat design that makes it easy er, and it allows cooling breezes to circulate freely. It' a comfortably priced! Versatile, easy-clean vinyl,17 1/2" solid pine with a cut-out STAGE-BY-STAGE peekaboo [can more than double] vidually carved and paint. white spots ester lined with acrylic insulation statement hang out of harm's way. Just Black or Green. Made in USA --- and Who experiences pain from repetitive or continuous space-age Heat-Sheet lavishly detailed great looking addition for your THE GRIPPING STORY convenience of having a fully [Not communicating? (stops] bronze relief attributed to the famous 6. THE 24-HOUR BRA machine-washable PIECES DESCRIBED made in USA Pink Mist, Moonlight, or Juniper, please specify clear explanation assemble, ready to hang. 5" deep free to do other things; an elastic side loop [Spare Time!] the cool in. You save on costly air conditioning. in a metal liner is also who contracted decorative. Beautifully detailed in polystone, each is FOLLOWS THE STORY Richly colored reduces tossing and turning for a COMPLEX RELATIONSHIP thane foam filling is odorless, mildew - soon-to-be step- by-step feature that makes sure your images stay smooth with stark realism, and both images are faithfully [(Never Fails)] AND OUTLINES Adjustable straps. Made im today's fashions. Triple ADDITION (OR ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 17:09:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Del Ray Cross Subject: SHAMPOO Issue 15! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Poets &/or Bathers, Announcing the completion of the porcine issue of SHAMPOO – issue 15! It may be piggy, but it's mighty clean! www.ShampooPoetry.com You'll find sudsy new poems by Stephanie Young, Mark Young, J. Marie Wilkinson, Rosanne Wasserman, Zinovy Vayman, Nathalie Trytell, Lakey Teasdale, Eileen Tabios, Ognjen Smiljanic, Larry Sawyer, Mark Peters, James Penha, Ronald Palmer, Murray Moulding, Cathy McArthur, Richard Lopez, Daniel W.K. Lee, Joseph Lease, Susanna Kittredge, Paolo Javier, Brenda Iijima, Jnana Hodson, Dave Gardner, Andrew French, Thomas Fink, C. Nolan Deweese, Sophia Dever, William Charles Delman, Christopher Davis, Barbara Blatner, and Luis Cuauhtemoc Berriozabal, and squeaky-clean collaborations by Shafer & John and Erik Sweet & Lori Quillen. Plus, PiggyArt by Curran Nault! Lather those locks, Del Ray Cross, Editor SHAMPOO clean hair / good poetry www.ShampooPoetry.com (if you'd prefer not to receive these notices, please let me know) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:30:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Coach House Books, Spring 2003 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >BASEBALL: >A POEM IN THE MAGIC NUMBER 9 >poetry by George Bowering > >God is the Commissioner of Baseball. >Apollo is the president of the Heavenly League. >The Nine Muses, his sisters > the =DErst all-girls baseball team. >Archangel Michael the head umpire. >Satan was thrown out of the game > for arguing with the officials. > > >>From its remarkable design to its effervescent language, George Bowering's >ode to the beautiful game is as original as it is funny, as bittersweet as >it is playful. A long-out-of-print Coach House classic, originally publishe= d >in 1967, Baseball weaves together mythology, autobiography, literary histor= y >and pop culture into an inimitable book-length poem that explores all the >nuances of the sport. Here are all the greats: Mantle, DiMaggio, Maris, >Williams and Manuel Louie, shortstop for the Wenatchee Chiefs, their >exploits captured in passages of off-kilter, occasionally melancholy, >lyricism. Gar Smith's enchanting and ingenious design has also been >preserved; the book, complete with green velvet-flocked covers, is shaped >like a pennant that, when unfolded, forms a diamond. > A long-time utility player, Bowering (our Homer?) has written books in >many different genres and was recently named Canada's first Poet Laureate. >Baseball is a tantalizing glimpse of the writer at the beginning of his >illustrious career; a real curveball of a book that will dazzle literature >and sports fans alike. > >George Bowering was born in Penticton, BC, in 1935 and served as a >photographer in the RCAF. He has won the Governor General's Award for poetr= y >(The Gangs of Kosmos and Rocky Mountain Foot, 1969) and for fiction (Burnin= g >Water, 1980). Recent publications include His Life: A Poem, which was >shortlisted for the 2000 GG, Bowering's BC, A Magpie Life, and Cars, with >Ryan Knighton. In 2002, he was named Canada's first poet laureate. > >Poetry * 24 pages * April 2003 * ISBN 1 55245 123 2 * $14.95 -- George Bowering A one-hit wonder =46ax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 15:50:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: on collins & canada In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII I'm beginning to wonder -- do they deliver e-mail by muleback up there in the frozen tundra? (If you have a pork pie you can spare, George, I've always wanted to taste one of those.) Damian On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 12:17:46 -0700 George Bowering wrote: > > > poetry...and so on. Mabe we should invite him to explain his philosophy re > >> Berrigan on this List ...and hopefully he wouldnt get "flamed"....maybe. > > > >Richard, if Collins really does have a "philosophy re > >Berrigan" I'll eat George Bowering's hat. > > Okay, but you're not getting my Boston Red Sox cap. > -- > George Bowering > A one-hit wonder > Fax 604-266-9000 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 16:07:38 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Traffic Subject: New at the Small Press Traffic website MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Just in time for curling up with a cup of cocoa...lots of new reading material at the Small Press Traffic website... Our thoughts on the winners of our first annual Book Awards & Lifetime Achievement Award From our New Experiments talks series: Marcella Durand on "The Ecology of Poetry" K. Silem Mohammad on "Lyric Equivalence" plus Reid Gomez's report on our conference, Coordinates 2002: Indigenous Writing Now Not to mention reviews of: Major Jackson's Leaving Saturn Philip Jenks' On the Cave You Live In Mark McDonald's Flat Elizabeth Robinson's Harrow Jocelyn Saidenberg's Cusp Kathy Lou Schultz's Some Vague Wife & there's more.... & more to come, including Arielle Greenberg on "The Gurlesque", new writing by Gerald Vizenor & Judith Goldman.... Don't forget to check out our updated Events page, too -- we'd love to see you at our Poets Theater Jamboree in January & February! Happy holidays and happy 2003 everyone! Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Executive Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCAC 1111 - 8th Street San Francisco, California 94107 http://www.sptraffic.org 415-551-9278 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 20:42:58 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Re: on collins & canada In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Damian Judge Rollison wrote: > I'm beginning to wonder -- do they deliver e-mail by > muleback up there in the frozen tundra? mainly it comes by ski-doo. except for stuff from states like virginia, that comes Special Deliverance. kevin ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 10:39:50 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: komninos zervos Subject: Re: will we allow Clarence Thomas to help bend the language out of reach? In-Reply-To: <000201c2a4e1$bd3291c0$415736d2@01397384> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-73512889; boundary="=======149AF31=======" --=======149AF31======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-73512889; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit i think un-reconstructed marxists should look at a divide more obvious than class in the usa. the 9/11 event was executed by second generation muslim americans with houses and mortgages and lawns to mow. it may not be monetary capitalism that is in decay but cultural capitalism. i fear bush is gearing up to protect the white anglo saxon christian majority in his country and world-wide. komninos At 07:00 PM 16/12/02, you wrote: >I didnt see it obviously being about 20,000 miles away; but its doesnt sound >good. They pick on something quite obvious: earlier they banned some funny >adverts with Bush in them: thy have the Homeland Security; in NZ and >Australia the same very draconian anti-terrorist laws apply: people can be >held without trial or even without a lawyer; I can see that the facade of >democracy will collapse; we need Barakas and others like the Berrigans; >despite what Harry Nudel says ( I am affable with Harry back chennel but we >disagreee); things are not good...Patrick Herron can tell you...he was >warning me before S11. > >I foresee a super fascist state geared to the benefit of the very rich: it >will be more subtle than Hitler's attempt, but it will work, it will be >possibly world wide ...democracy ...weak as it already is...will phased out >in favour of the TELEVSION AND COMPUTER GENERATED ILLUSION of democracy. >The US will ahmmer who theyb want. The working people of the world will >suffer more. There will be more wars unless people get organised and unified >against the Bush and teh Republicans and Blair and Israel (the present >regime there) and Russia. > >Journalists if they arent payed of will be threatened and cowed: ,amy will >stay silent "trustingrto Congree" and d"due prosess as others are led away >into jails. No trials. You now have Georgian Stalinism: watch it grow!! > >Unles there are mass protests and counterattacks by the people. > >Richard. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Craig Allen Conrad" >To: >Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 8:57 PM >Subject: Re: will we allow Clarence Thomas to help bend the language out of >reach? > > > > In a message dated 12/16/2002 2:52:32 AM, herb@ESKIMO.COM writes: > > > > << Uh, that was just oral arguments, a hearing, before the Supreme > > Court, not a ruling. The Court won't issue a decision on this issue > > until sometime in the spring. > > >> > > > > Actually, that's why my subject line reads "will we allow..." > > I goofed in the meat of the e-mail. > > anyway, besides that, how the hell do you feel about it? > > CAConrad > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/02 --=======149AF31======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-73512889 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/02 --=======149AF31=======-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 19:48:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: Call for submission to Desire in Transition In-Reply-To: <20021217002544.66171.qmail@web40403.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit FYI... ---------- CALL FOR PAPERS: Desire in Transition: An anthology by, for and about partners and potential partners of trans(gender/sexual), intersex, and gender queer people Partners and potential partners of gender queer people are extremely diverse and rarely visible as a group. We are people of all genders (trans and otherwise), people of all sexual identities (straight, lesbian, gay, bisexual, pansexual, trans-sensual, s/m, vanilla, some of us still searching for terminology and some happy without it), not to mention body sizes and shapes, races, ethnicities, health statuses, physical abilities, economic classes and so on. Part of our invisibility is that there doesn't seem to be a simple name for the one thing we have in common. "Homosexual" might work for similarly gendered trans people in relationships, but not all of us with differently gendered preferences are comfortable with "heterosexual," and "transsexual" is already taken. It's time for an anthology to begin to illustrate who we are (in all of our diversity), the issues with which we struggle, and what we're doing to make the world a better place. We imagine this book as a beginning of a conversation among lovers of gender variant folks and the varied communities to which we belong. So, We're looking for writing (essays, memoirs, stories, poetry, etc.) on the following topics or others that you believe would be important for such a book: Coming out stories How has your thinking about your sexual identity and relationship changed over time? Did a partner you were already with, come out as trans? Or, did you find a pattern in the types of people you were attracted to? What have you come out as? Have you come out more than once, with more than one sexual identity? How did others react when you told them? What were your hopes and fears in coming out? How have they come true or not? Did your partner or ex come out to you? And how did you react? Sex Desire, erotica, safer sex, S/M, vanilla, phone sex, public sex, fantasies, fuck-ups, and so on?) v Relationships (Is there anything special about trans or differently gendered relationships? How have your views on relationships changed with your partners and/or identities? Changes during transition, trans people telling their partners, non-trans partners' transitions, how to be a political ally to your romantic partner/s, inter-racial relationships, internet dating, monogamy and polyamory, commitment ceremonies, state-sanctioned marriages, domestic violence? Creating Community Where do we fit, and how have our communities responded? How have our non-trans-identified communities adjusted or changed? Who has come into our lives that we might not otherwise have met? What barriers have obstructed our efforts to create community, and how have we dealt with them? What has been fun or fabulous about your gender community? Organizing for Social Change What kinds of trans/partners political organizing are we doing? What tips do we have for others? How do we work with and in existing political organizations: queer, people of color, labor, feminist, fat liberationist and other movements? How has being a partner of a trans person fit with and/or changed and/or enhanced your political analysis? Submissions should be no more than 15 pages (double spaced) or 3700 words. Send paper versions to: Natalie , 908 Quincy St. NE #2, Washington, DC 20017 or electronic ones to nptucker@yahoo.com Deadline Ongoing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 17:10:12 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: on collins & canada In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > mainly it comes by ski-doo. except for stuff from states like virginia, > that comes Special Deliverance. I can only assume that twenty-three of them must serve the whole damn country. Always wondered where that phrase came from -- had never noticed the irony though. I don't live in Virginia anymore, by the way. I live in California, which as we all know is one big ethernet. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 19:39:55 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Clements Subject: Call for Reviewers and Reviewees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sentence: A Journal of Prose Poetics invites poets and critics familiar with the traditions of the prose poem and poet’s prose to join our pool of reviewers. Queries about reviewing specific books are also welcome. Books are eligible for review if published since January 2001. It is our goal to review or microreview as many books as possible and appropriate in each issue. The first Sentence will appear in Fall 2003 and will feature: --prose poems --poems, prose, and hybrids that work on the boundary of the prose poem and expand or de-balkanize conceptions of genre --essays on prose poems, on prose poets, and on the poetics of prose poetry --reviews and microreviews of recent books --a brief bibliography of recent criticism and scholarship on the prose poem To join the pool of reviewers, to query about reviewing specific books, or to get more information on _Sentence_, email editor@firewheel-editions.org. Send books for review and articles/books for inclusion in the bibliography to Sentence, c/o Firewheel Editions, PO Box 793677, Dallas, TX 75379. Brian Clements Editor ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 14:49:19 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: on collins & canada The Sox and The Hat MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The problem of the sox and the hat may indeed preclude the continuation, possible, completion, or furtherance, or initiation, intimation, consideration, contemplation, enfilement, and indeed any creepance toward even a crepuscular guesturation (given that monsieur harry von nudel has violently suggested i swallow more pills when i suggested that he might becoming hitlerian or at the very least "cranky" or nudelian) (with which suggestion I partially concurred as I am not averse to the odd drop of lion red combined with say 2000 milligrams of valium - it is very relaxing, one must understand....oh, and some morphine of an evening......as part of me at least loves to be morphed, as indeed in the literal sense we all are, or at least those of us who....are...Plato....Pluto..ah...hmmm...where was I?...) ..as I say, GIVEN these issues (what issues? where was?) I think that mister Billly Bush and Amiri Collins should be invited to explain what isnt (or IS as the case may or may not be) decaying in the carious teeth of the ed dornian desert that spreads around the dying globe these all-hating days when decent has descended to descant and crooked backs do redance the dance: all of which leads me to feel deeply frustrate in regard to these possibilities - and my brilliant proposal of a philosophy and an exchange by Silly Bollins or Mabiri Araka or whoever wanders off the streets (say some homless guy from Manhatten or Philadelphia or Boston or even Texas or Auckland, K Road) to discuss with us these matters I too much am explained too much am; too much entwisted and twined: too much do I indeed too much indeed: and hence in the event of the non appearance or other of B Von Collinski or Baraki on our hallowed List I must desist, or despair, or just dissolve......but to this non soluble (or soluble as the case may or ma...) event: to this non or to this event, I ascribe as the raison: the Hat and the Sox. Richard von Talog PS Has anyone seen my cap with "New York " on it I bought it for about US$5 in 1993 and I think it flew off my tired but poetic head in some time between then and the present time in Panmure, Auckland, New Zealand...and its red with if I recall blue New York on it...if you do find it I would greatly appreciate its return as I was going to gift it to harry nudel, ron silliman or george bowering or whoever else..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Bowering" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 8:17 AM Subject: Re: on collins & canada > > > poetry...and so on. Mabe we should invite him to explain his philosophy re > >> Berrigan on this List ...and hopefully he wouldnt get "flamed"....maybe. > > > >Richard, if Collins really does have a "philosophy re > >Berrigan" I'll eat George Bowering's hat. > > Okay, but you're not getting my Boston Red Sox cap. > -- > George Bowering > A one-hit wonder > Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 21:15:08 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Murphy Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 15 Dec 2002 to 16 Dec 2002 (#2002-308) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii http://www.readireland.ie/sea.php3?name=Paul&surname=Durcan&title=&pub= Use the above link for Paul Durcan books - I've heard him read - very fine. Sheila Murphy __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 00:24:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: broken protest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII broken protest one 10cm square x patch 10 of cm brown . canvas, tired 10cm of x concept- ual 10 one cm square . patch tired of conceptual canvas, advertisement for for war war resistance resistance accomplishing accomplishing the the brunt brunt of violence. advertisement frayed . edges tired white 12-321 numbers . worn tired in accomplishing 12-321 the stains tired blood, of urine, skin fragments and skin the and brunt other . tissues tired dna individuals from . several tired individuals accomplishing a one crease corner across . corner of dirt for apparently war central tired france of date late late accomplishing 191-s the what circular appears hole to with be charred circular brunt hole of with violence. charred what edges, appears diagonally the repaired cutting seam war cutting resistance parallel weave coarse of weave conceptual provenance . unknown war inked near line, edge black touching india, crease near brunt edge of touching violence. === ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 01:09:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: amus moore MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain For some reason I missed this inquiry when it first appeared -- Did anybody answer your questions? Moore appears on an early Muhal Richard Abrams album from Delmark that has been reissued on CD -- sorry I don't have full info for you -- I'm in California and my stuff is in Pennsylvania -- but I can dig things out when I go back to the campus around 1/12 -- Moore was much anthologized in the late 60s -- BLACK SPIRITS has not been reissued,,,, was barely circulated at the time, though it was a MOTOWN product! There was an accomanying anthology edited by Woody King, though the book's contents differ from the LP (for example, the strange Baraka poem on the recording is not in the book) -- On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:04:41 +0000, "J. Kuszai" wrote: > does anyone have any information about the poet Amus Moore? > > check this out, from "Black Spirits" -- from an old Motown associated > recording: > > http://www.factoryschool.org/content/sounds/poetry/moore_amus/moore_amus_hip.ram > > Was he ever anthologized? Published in what magazines? > > I don't own this recording (is it on cd?) so I'm not sure if it says > anything about him on the sleeve, or what... > > thanks-- > > > -- > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "So all rogues lean to rhyme." --James Joyce Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 00:31:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: V E H U I A H #0002 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit emile vincent V E H U I A H #0002 (excerpt) www.guardian-del-sol.com u h h v a a i i h a e h i i u u i v a a i h h a i i h v h h h u i h u h i u h h v a a i v h v i i e h u u i e h a h a e i h h i h u v h h i i v h a i u h i v h h i i u h u i u a h u i u h u i a h i a h h u i i h u u a i i i h h i i h h i i h h u u i a h v u i h u u u e i h h h a a h a i u h h h i a v e i h h h v v h a i v h v i u h i h a h i a v h h u h i v a u i u h i h a h i i h u i h u u h i i u h i i h h i i i h h a i i h h a v h u u i h a v a h i i e h u u u a u i i h h i i v u i h u u u u u i h a h i h u h i h u h i u h a e h i v h a h u i u u i h v u v u h i u a i u i v h h h i i a a h i e h u u u h i a v u i u h v v u h u h i v i i a a a i i h h i i h u i v h h i h i v h a i i h u i i a v h i u v u i u a u h i e h a u i h h v a u h i h a h v a u i i h u v v u u i v h v u u i i u i h v v u h i u i h h i u h i u u v u v a a i v h v u u i i u i h h i i v h v a i v a a i v h h i i h u i h h u u i i h h v v u a u h i v v a h v h h h i a a i v u h i v h v u u i i v h h i e h a i i h h u i u u u i h u h u u i v a v u u i h i h u h u i v u v a h i h v a i a u h h i i h u h i h h h h i v u h v u u i v a i i i h v u i i v i u i h u i h u i v h e h i i h u i h u h h u a i v h a i v h u i v h h h u a i h v i i i h h h v i v h a h u i u u a u u i v u h u i h u e h u u u e i u h i h a h i v a v u v u h u h i i h a h i h v h v u v h a u i e u u u i h h a i u h e u i h u h h a h h u h e h v u i i h u u h i h v u h h v i v h a i v h i u h i i h u i i h a a u u v a i i e h u h h v h u i h u h u i u h u h i i h h i i h v h a v i u h i i h a h i v u h e h u i u i u u h i v h h h u i u h e h i h i h u h i v h i h a i u i h u a u v h u h i i h a a h i i h e e a v h u h i a h u h i i h u v a i h i v h a i v h h i h h v i i v h v a i u h i u v v v u a i h u h h a i u v v v u a i e u u e h v e h i u i h u h h i h h i i u h u i u a i i h i v h a h i v v i h i i h u i h u h e e a v u v i v h a i i h u i a v v a a v i v h u a i i h u i i h h h v u h i a u e i i v u u h i i h u h u i h h e a i u a i i h u v h v i u i h a h v a u i i e h u u i i e h a i h h u i u u h v i h u h i h h a a u i i h u i u h a i h i v h u i v h h i u h i h u h v u i u i v u h u h i i h u i h v u u i i h u i v h h u a i u i i u u u i u v h u i i h u h i i h u i i h h h v h a u i h u i v a h i i i h h i h h h v h a u i h u h u h a u i h u u h h u h i i h h i h u h h u i v h u i v a v u v e i h a u h i v h h i h u e h a e a u h u h i u u a u u u i i v a h i e h a i h h h i i u i h i u i a a h v i h i v a v u v e i i u h h u u u u u h i h u u u h u i i u i h i v h a h u i h v u i a h v h a e u i h h i u i h h h v i i v h h i i h h h h h a h i h h u h e h i u i h u v h h h i e h a u e v h a u a u u u i u a e h i v u h v u u i a u a u h h u u h i h h h v h i e h h v h u i e h a h u u i h u h a v i h u i v h u u u i v h v u h a u i e a i a u h i v h u i a h i a h u i a u h u h i h u i h h u h i u h u i i h a h v a a i h u v h h e u u u i v h v u v a a i e h h h v a a i i u h i i h u a e u i i u h i u u h i v a a i v h v u h a h a u i h u h h a a u h h a u i u h a a i h a a i h v i i u h u a e u i v u i v u u a i h a v i h u i v h i h i e h a u v h u h u h i h u u h a u u i v a h h v v i v a a i v h h v u u i v h v e h u h u h i u h a h e u i h u h v h u i h v a h i i u v h u i u a e h h i h u i h i u h v h u i v h h h i h u h h i u h i u i u h a h e u i u h a u u i i h u u u i h a v i h u u i h u h v h u h i u e a h u i h u h v a h i u i u v h u i u a e h h i i h i u h v h u i v h h v u u i h u a e u i v h u u u u u i i h h h u i h v a h i i h v u u i h u u v a a u u i u v h v a a i v u v a a i u i h u u i i h h i h h u i i u u h u i i h a u i i h a u e v h a u a u u u i h u u e v h u u u u h i v i u u u i i i h h i i h h h v h a u i v u v a a u i h a v i h i u i v a h a v i h i u i i h h u u i h a u i h u h u u i v u v a a u i h a h v a i v v u u i e h a u e v h a u u h i h a h i i v u v a a v i i h a i v v u u v a a u h i h u e h h h a u u h i e a i i h v a i i v a a u h u i e h h h i u h i i a a h v v a a i h a u a u u u i h u h a u i v a h v h u u i h u e h i v a a i h a h v a i h a h v a i i a a h h a u i v u h a u i e h a i h a h v i i u u u i u e v u h v u a e u i h u h a u a u u u i h a u h i u i h v i v a e a h v a a i h a h i v a a i h i h u h u i v u a v a i u h h u i h u u i h v a i h u h u u i i h u h v u h i h a v i h u u i i h h i h v a i h u u i i v h h a i h u h a u i h h i i h u u v h v a a i i h u u u i h u h a v i h u u i v a h v h v h a h u i u h a u u i i h h a i h u h a u i h h i i i h a v i u u i i i h h i i i h i u h v h u i h u v h h v u u i i h u u u i u h a u u i h u u v h u i h u a e u i v h h u i u i h v i i u h i u u h i v a a i v a i e h u h v a a i h u h a v i h u u i a u h u u h v i u h h u i v h h i h i u i h a u a u u u i h h i u i v u h v u u i h u h h i u h i h u u h h a h h h i i h v h u h h u h a i h h a a u h h a u i u h i u i v i u u i i a h a i v u h u h a i i h h i u h u a i h u h v u e h a a i i u a e h i h u h h i u i h u i i e h a h v e i v h a i i v h i i a v a h u h i v h v i u i v h u u v v u u i h u h h h i i h e e h a v a a i v h h e i v e u i u h h a h h h i i h v h u h h u h a i v v i h v a i u v i v i u i v h v u u i h u v u h i h h i v a a i h u h a u i u h h a h h h i i u i h h v a i h h a h u u u i i v h v a i i u e h h a u i v h a i e h a u i h u i a h a u i i h h i v u h i h h i v a a i h v h u h h u h a i u h h a h h h i i h a u u i u h u h h i h v a a i h i h h i i h u v a v i v h u i u i h a u u i a h h h a h u u h i v a e h u h u u i v u h v h h i i v a h i v i v h h h u i u a i i a --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.427 / Virus Database: 240 - Release Date: 12/6/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 00:34:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: near-text-experience #010 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit robb collins near-text-experience #010...[excerpt] www.textmodificationstudio.com Into th e than that delays and ct boats, t , deaths of The situati m, which ca n the prese e most affe me half-int means the eads, so th ully sick a y are going ripping car e. r her body to Feeling the m on. 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Version: 6.0.427 / Virus Database: 240 - Release Date: 12/6/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 00:22:11 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: will we allow Clarence Thomas to help bend the language out of reach? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit First one was rejected : this one MUST go thru !! Hai!!! (Or ther'll be big trouble) Ha! ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard.tylr" To: "UB Poetics discussion group" Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 3:08 PM Subject: Re: will we allow Clarence Thomas to help bend the language out of reach? > Marxism and eg Dawinism - while I dont worship at their shrines - are for me > very useful in explicating various political events but we are not just > talking simply of classes - these are still are fundamental factor s (the > class struggle is the major motive force in making world history) - but > also in the US and elsewhere there are cultural factors which are linked > often to religious and so on: so the picture is complex with intra and inter > class struggles occurring and also he constant struggle (not neccessarily > conflict or at least not always violent or hurtful conflict) of ideas and so > on: but still the powerful plutocrats (whether rich Muslims wiped out the > towers or not: in fact I suspect that there are many such on the CIA pay > roll ) are very interested in such things as divide and rule and general > shit stirring and destabilisation, and if that doesnt work they threaten > (thru the media) various possibilities such as smallpox (which they > developed!!) or they threaten counntries like NZ that trade wont flow to > their countries so freely and so on..... and also implied is tat peopel can > be SACKED or theor busiesses mysterioulsy dfail a and so on so terror takes > strange fofrms and meanings ....but it looks as though the fun and games are > on again in Iraq and the US are targetting Asia (the Cauacasus is rich > prize ) and its possible Iraq will become another US State like Israel is. > However....these views may disturb monsieur harrus nudelskus and monsieur > nikus piombinus....Richardus Taylorus. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "komninos zervos" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 1:39 PM > Subject: Re: will we allow Clarence Thomas to help bend the language out of > reach? > > > > i think un-reconstructed marxists should look at a divide more obvious > than > > class in the usa. > > the 9/11 event was executed by second generation muslim americans with > > houses and mortgages and lawns to mow. > > it may not be monetary capitalism that is in decay but cultural > capitalism. > > i fear bush is gearing up to protect the white anglo saxon christian > > majority in his country and world-wide. > > > > komninos > > > > > > At 07:00 PM 16/12/02, you wrote: > > > > >I didnt see it obviously being about 20,000 miles away; but its doesnt > sound > > >good. They pick on something quite obvious: earlier they banned some > funny > > >adverts with Bush in them: thy have the Homeland Security; in NZ and > > >Australia the same very draconian anti-terrorist laws apply: people can > be > > >held without trial or even without a lawyer; I can see that the facade of > > >democracy will collapse; we need Barakas and others like the Berrigans; > > >despite what Harry Nudel says ( I am affable with Harry back chennel but > we > > >disagreee); things are not good...Patrick Herron can tell you...he was > > >warning me before S11. > > > > > >I foresee a super fascist state geared to the benefit of the very rich: > it > > >will be more subtle than Hitler's attempt, but it will work, it will be > > >possibly world wide ...democracy ...weak as it already is...will phased > out > > >in favour of the TELEVSION AND COMPUTER GENERATED ILLUSION of democracy. > > >The US will ahmmer who theyb want. The working people of the world will > > >suffer more. There will be more wars unless people get organised and > unified > > >against the Bush and teh Republicans and Blair and Israel (the present > > >regime there) and Russia. > > > > > >Journalists if they arent payed of will be threatened and cowed: ,amy > will > > >stay silent "trustingrto Congree" and d"due prosess as others are led > away > > >into jails. No trials. You now have Georgian Stalinism: watch it grow!! > > > > > >Unles there are mass protests and counterattacks by the people. > > > > > >Richard. > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Craig Allen Conrad" > > >To: > > >Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 8:57 PM > > >Subject: Re: will we allow Clarence Thomas to help bend the language out > of > > >reach? > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/16/2002 2:52:32 AM, herb@ESKIMO.COM writes: > > > > > > > > << Uh, that was just oral arguments, a hearing, before the Supreme > > > > Court, not a ruling. The Court won't issue a decision on this issue > > > > until sometime in the spring. > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Actually, that's why my subject line reads "will we allow..." > > > > I goofed in the meat of the e-mail. > > > > anyway, besides that, how the hell do you feel about it? > > > > CAConrad > > > > > > > > >--- > > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > >Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/02 > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---- > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/02 > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 07:27:18 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Clarence Thomas orders a diet coke... Our usual sources are informing us that Trent Lott will actively seek the N.J. Poet Laureateship. Meanwhile the every busy Amiri Baraka is considering going to court to see if his burning of Stars of David on his front law is only a symbolic act and thus protected speech under his first amendment rights...harry... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 08:32:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Henry Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 15 Dec 2002 to 16 Dec 2002 (#2002-308) In-Reply-To: <200212170504.gBH544tt000318@mailhub3.mail.cornell.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="us-ascii" Around 12:03 AM 12/17/2002, Craig Allen Conrad wrote, >I feel very strongly that this ruling is the sinister GENIUS of a fascist >government. How perfect is it to BEGIN restricting the actions and >language of a people by choosing something NO ONE will DARE speak out against? > >The level of discomfort with the subject in these two NPR commentators was >evident. They even made a point of mentioning HOW LONG AGO the Anita Hill >incident was, as if to say everything's OKAY NOW because Clarence has >managed to get a grip on his fly. (has anyone else noticed how casual >misogyny has become in our post-feminist era? OOPS! I used the F word!) > >Look, I'm NOT happy about having to defend cross burning, but I feel this >giant eraser is DELIBERATELY starting in a blind spot, and will be coming >up your street, and mine, one day, very soon. I think you might have an intermittent short in your Caps Lock key. HTH. -- Ron Henry ronhenry@clarityconnect.com Aught, publishing alternative poetries: http://people2.clarityconnect.com/webpages6/ronhenry/aught.htm "I want to cradle where the nest pings" -- Sheila E. Murphy, "I Want To" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 09:15:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: four years ago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Quoth Gabriel Gudding: "four yrs ago." Hey, remember that? Any other poets been featured in ads playing during the Super Bowl since then? Happy Lord of the Rings eve, Jordan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 10:29:02 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ron.silliman@VERIZON.NET Subject: NYTimes.com Article: Surrealism for Sale, Straight From the Source This article from NYTimes.com has been sent to you by ron.silliman@verizon.net. Better save your pennies.... ron.silliman@verizon.net Surrealism for Sale, Straight From the Source December 17, 2002 By ALAN RIDING PARIS, Dec. 16 - In photographs André Breton is rarely seen smiling. As the founder and undisputed leader of the Surrealist movement, he evidently took himself seriously. Between the 1920's and 1950's he alone defined the rules of Surrealism and tolerated no challenge to his authority. He encouraged rebellion against prevailing artistic and social norms, but artists and poets who fell out of his favor were summarily expelled from the movement. On the other hand, he must have had loads of charisma. Over the years, in addition to the artworks he bought, notably primitive sculptures from Oceania, hundreds of paintings, drawings, photographs and books were given to him by friends, followers and little-known artists seeking his blessing. When Breton died at 70 on Sept. 28, 1966, his small apartment at 42 Rue Fontaine in the Pigalle district of Paris was a veritable treasure trove. He had lived there since 1922. His heirs - his widow, Elisa, and his daughter from an earlier relationship, Aube - decided to touch nothing. "My stepmother lived there, and it was her family environment," Aube Breton Elléouët, 67, explained. "For 35 years we looked for an answer to what could be done with this collection. My father had never expressed himself on the subject." Now, two years after Elisa Breton's death, with the French government unwilling to buy the collection, the largest single record of the Surrealist movement is to be sold next spring at the Hôtel Drouot-Richelieu, where Paris auctions are held. One measure of the size of the sale is that the auction house, CalmelsCohen, plans at least six catalogs to cover the 5,300 lots. The auction, from April 1 to 18, is expected to raise $30 million to $40 million. Books, which account for 3,500 of the lots, include some dedicated to Breton by Freud, Trotsky and Apollinaire as well as art catalogs and journals. Among the 500 lots of manuscripts are originals of some of Breton's writings as well as records of Surrealist "games" and experiments. Modern art is represented by 450 paintings, drawings and sculptures and 500 lots of photographs. And there are 200 examples of popular art and 150 works of primitive art, mainly from Oceania. (A description of the collection is online at breton.calmelscohen.com.) To compensate for the inevitable dispersal of the collection, the entire contents of 42 Rue Fontaine have been recorded digitally and will be made available through a CD-ROM. "Everything," explains a news release by Jean-Michel Ollé and Jean-Pierre Sakoun, who prepared the database. "Paintings, objects, photos, manuscripts, books. Everything from the least important to the most, the historic and the everyday, the private and the public." The principal item not included in the auction is what is known as Breton's Wall, literally the cluttered wall behind his desk that was featured in many photographs and came to be considered a work of art - the art of collecting - in its own right. The wall was given by Mrs. Breton Elléouët to the National Museum of Modern Art at the Georges Pompidou Center in lieu of death duties owed to the government by the Breton estate. The wall's shelves are crowded with dozens of Oceanic sculptures as well as Inuit objects and pre-Hispanic figures from Mexico. On the wall itself are paintings, engravings and drawings by the likes of Francis Picabia, Alfred Jarry, Roberto Matta, Jean Arp, Marcel Duchamp, Picasso, Joan Miró and Wassily Kandinsky. And tucked among them is the odd personal item, like a photograph of Elisa Breton. Yet the collection to be sold in the spring reveals more about Breton's approach to art, since it includes not only major works, but also lesser works by long forgotten artists and even objects that Breton bought at auctions and flea markets or simply found while out strolling. "My father had as much passion for a piece found on the bank of a river as for an important painting in his collection," Mrs. Breton Elléouët said. Still, the auction will not lack important works, notably "Danseuse Espagnole" or "Spanish Dancer," by Miró, Matta's "Poster for Arcane 17," Magritte's "Woman Hidden in a Forest," an untitled work by Arshile Gorky and "Danger, Dancer," a painting on a photograph on glass by Man Ray. It also includes scores of less valuable works by equally famous artists, among them Picasso, Picabia, Arp, Duchamp, Max Ernst, Wilfredo Lam, Victor Brauner and André Masson. More than 100 original prints by Man Ray dominate the photography collection. Notably absent is any work by Giorgio de Chirico, the Italian Metaphysical painter, with whom Breton fell out. And a postcard-size collage and gouache is the only work in the sale by Salvador Dali, easily the most famous Surrealist painter, who was expelled from the movement by Breton. The auction also includes no book by the poet Louis Aragon, another friend turned foe. The evidence is clear: Surrealist rebels were expurgated from Breton's life. Breton himself, while he dabbled with collages and wrote poetry of considerable merit, was most famous simply for being Breton. He was above all immensely curious, his early poetry and interest in psychoanalysis serving as a springboard for Surrealism's constant exploration of the connections between poetry and life, chance, love and sexuality. To describe Surrealism as a sect is to ignore its enormous influence, but Breton himself was very much its guru. "I believe it is into my thought that I put all my daring, all the strength and hope of which I am capable," he wrote in a letter to the art collector Jacques Doucet in December 1924, shortly after publication of the Surrealist Manifesto. "It possesses me entirely, jealously and makes a mockery of worldly goods." Certainly while Surrealism today is best remembered through the works of Dali, Magritte, Miró and Ernst, visual art was not central to Breton's vision of the movement. Yet he undoubtedly had an eye for innovative art: it was at his insistence that in 1924 Doucet bought one of the landmark works of 20th-century art, Picasso's "Desmoiselles d'Avignon," now a jewel in the collection of the Museum of Modern Art in New York. As an inspiration for Surrealism, though, Breton was drawn principally to Oceanic art, which he described as "one of the great lock-keepers of our heart." While African art was the rage in Paris at the time, he felt it was too linked to human rituals and animals. He preferred Oceanic art "for its immemorial effort to express the interpenetration of the physical and the mental, to triumph over the dualism of perception and representation." Put more simply, he considered it more mystical. "Oceanic objects were Breton's companions all his life," said Pierre Amrouche, an expert on primitive art who is an adviser to the Breton auction. "It was his family, a tribe of which he was the chief. The very first object he acquired was an Easter Island piece bought when he was 15 with money he was given for good school results." (The most valuable Oceanic work in the auction is "Uli," a four-foot-high wooden ancestor statue from the South Pacific island New Ireland, with a sale price estimated at $600,000 to $800,000.) When Breton traveled to Mexico in 1938 to visit the exiled Trotsky, he discovered pre-Hispanic art. And when he was himself exiled in the United States during World War II, he further developed his interest in American Indian and Inuit art, which also joined his collection. From 1941 to 1945, with Ernst, Dali, Matta and other Surrealists also in exile, New York became the temporary capital of Surrealism, although Breton never felt at home there: he never bothered to learn English. His own political views were always on the left, but he was a true militant only of Surrealism. He joined the French Communist Party in 1927 and, unaccustomed to taking orders, was soon horrified by its dogmatism. He finally resigned from the party in 1935 (this was the main cause of his rift with Aragon, who stayed in the party), but after the war he was a vocal critic of France's involvement in wars in Indochina and Algeria and an outspoken foe of Stalinism. Although Surrealism survived the war, with Breton himself returning to Paris to preside over it, by the 1950's and 1960's it had been overtaken by new art movements. Yet when Breton died, while Surrealist paintings hung on the walls of museums around the world, it was at 42 Rue Fontaine that the soul of the movement resided. Works were frequently loaned for exhibitions, but repeated efforts by his widow and daughter to win government backing for creation of a Breton or a Surrealist foundation came to nothing. After Elisa Breton's death in early 2000 and the transfer of Breton's Wall to the Pompidou, Mrs. Breton Elléouët decided to make an inventory of the collection. "That's when we became involved," Laurence Calmels, a partner in CalmelsCohen, recalled. "We arrived at 42 Rue Fontaine, where nothing had changed except `the Wall.' Breton's desk was as he left it, his pipe, the bag of tobacco, the books. There were paintings on walls, but we found many covered in dust in a mezzanine. There were cartons of documents. He kept everything. It took three months to do the inventory." It was only then, convinced that she had no alternative, that Mrs. Breton Elléouët reluctantly chose to sell the collection. "A few works have been sold to the Pompidou and the new Primitive Arts Museum," she said. "As for the rest of the collection, during 35 years of representations we received not a single proposal or offer of help." http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/17/arts/design/17BRET.html?ex=1041138942&ei=1&en=842fd0d2b5204404 HOW TO ADVERTISE --------------------------------- For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters or other creative advertising opportunities with The New York Times on the Web, please contact onlinesales@nytimes.com or visit our online media kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help@nytimes.com. Copyright 2002 The New York Times Company ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 08:29:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: Re: something Nick mentioned MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii i agree... in school i had a prof who used a "sticky-bouncy" method to critique poems---she would describe what in a poem stuck to her peception, and what in a poem bounced her away... this is in general the method i use in looking at any work---there's "theory," of course (and when it comes to hypermedia in particular i have some strong beliefs, mostly fostered by long hours stooped over programming manuals)(i have some strong beliefs as far as theory goes for poetry too: but these are personal, & i try not to look at any language work through such a lens: those parameters are reserved strictly for the formulation of my own work)... above all, yes, be kind! kindness and encouragement fosters great work! (and you, sheila, have encouraged me more than anyone I know!) bliss l Sheila sez:Referring to James, I think, "to be kind" thrice, reinforces, resurfaces, shall we say, a value that I think so very useful, in addition to its more glowing properties. Thinking aloud here, I used to say how much I resented the loss of any time and energy I felt I needed to devote to defense or bully-thwarting. I still feel this way. Despite a firm commitment to placing attention on the more luxurious aspects of living and perceiving, there have been and will continue to be times when immersion in refined thought/feeling is sacrificed to struggles in the mud. One strategy is to invest in the possibility of being able to "afford" long spaces away from the grit and grime involved in fending off predators. All this moves on into and through the "good and bad" poetry issue. A lot of time is likely wasted on campaigning in favor of something that ought to persuade various ones by the nature of itself. I'm far less interested in making proclamations of "no value" than I am in celebrating what works, in whatever way that word might mean. It has also occurred to me that it generally takes far more perspicacity to discern what is "right" about a thing than what is "wrong." sheila murphy of maricopa county ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 11:12:40 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Sweet Clear Handful, part 2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed page 17 handwriting leaks tolerance one body pockets pretty hermaphrodites this prompt plea knells valentined slaps two fingers in accord, a bestial buttock wings toward the, or so they say, quail in rose petal sauce today is a cat-o'-nine luxury kind of day, the kind of day Anatole France plugs his blog, wherein he daydreams aloud of being Lucky Paul - hey! Un Tombeau pour Anatole! - I finished with homework long ago! and it won't be too terribly far into the future until "long ago" spells "language" ________________________________________________________________________ page 18 manikin rant spoolish as ever, if you catch my drift, your payments are a compliment choosy to quote querulous tithe, wed to the opposition worded cognitive as a quanta fallout squandered on goop & vetoes brittle as a commingled aubade ________________________________________________________________________ page 19 flash reshuffles minus / durable worsted a stunned teat gone byzantine linen flag a mantle eaten up by facts aural extravert -- pardon me, I meant CHAMOIS SPIFFY stirs in jolts at a punishing pace, cloudy & hateful in a sweet clear handful / the breath in this case flush with the fluid Henry, Maximus, Virginia, & Robinson, drop your heels & bury the bridge, price bodily lawful, incongruity stretched else believed shabby speechifier ended calculate furze...incomes, incomes ________________________________________________________________________ page 20 you really should learn to own up to your verbs - in seconds, verbs're spackled with seconds ________________________________________________________________________ page 21 pungent handles a bill to secure some classics creditors shaken by free pages Anatole! the art historians are coming, you might want to gussy up your genitals ________________________________________________________________________ page 22 meticulous peppermint, spiked pious with rival buoyancy, curling rustiness to star her home ________________________________________________________________________ page 23 quicksand drilling the cool newspapers (wash-hand loathing?) this knock-out slips my shrug, sooner or later the air peters out for all of us (& the day & hour) ________________________________________________________________________ page 24 coherent and painless - sentinels reading a flash aloud ________________________________________________________________________ page 25 you are doubtless amazed, giant Cormorant, at the Salian Frank's chesspieces pasted up on trees that yap & spurt, Melchizedek! ________________________________________________________________________ page 26 aspersion versus immersion, still an improved heritage -- not bad for an old root-and-branch man chewing the sponsor for pawned birch-stems ________________________________________________________________________ page 27 one straw the stone-breaker settles the same thing is still quite singular Nau-o-oom... ________________________________________________________________________ page 28 title sauciness at your leisure the elms chiefly broken balance skinning with sunlight, a remote fortune could be tears dashed scales drawled us together to PLAY GOLF FREE while having your SUIT PRESSED ________________________________________________________________________ page 29 comprehensive chains & seals - candidates for charmed careers ________________________________________________________________________ page 30 clarity unpleasant and fidgety squared to clasp the view of public coats with private sleeves the book to warn you or suit you its eyes a method of public spirit & yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus: there could be no fleas without there are paws ________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 09:30:33 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: retreads in the snow In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable retreads in the snow they=92re doing it again: with machines down the block in the alley. =20= dentist drill bits sneak along the ground, mangling resistance to bite=20= size chunks . . . removing evidence the invasion ever existed. they=92re doing it again: replaying duck and cover remnants from =20 norman rockwell=92s highlites. they=92re doing it again . . . changing one commodity for =93the = =20 condition of possibilit(ies)=94 . . . pubescent fantasy for bittersweet = =20 religion. disrupting the ever present present for the ever=20 expectant eternal sunshine simile. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 09:32:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: romantic matter In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit romantic matter I was possessed by legs that followed me . . . in the morning they would kick me awake. the problem, they lived under water and started to decompose - disconnected from the main frame. ~ I confronted evil (or the devil) and invited satan to fuck off. I mean this is a little scary . . . telling beelzebul to get the fuck out of my 24 foot trailer . . . its enough to make your skin crawl with gnats. this was going to be a battle alright. I knew it was him or at least his stand-in. at this point there were no assumption, only matter. I told him again to leave my travel queen - but that only pissed him off. I called a truce between the buddha and christ . . . had them hold hands on my coffee table . . . that started to work . . . I could finally see my kitchenette . . . then I had to pee - and all hell broke loose. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:33:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Saturnalia Song Comments: To: ImitaPo Memebers , "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Saturnalia Song Ice swirls painted on the window is the sorrow song sung as Jack Frost swoops past his blonde haired love whistling in celebration of the season winter gathering eternity as an evergreen tree adorned slightly off center, tarnished heirlooms glass as nostalgia brought down from the attic, colorful garlands decorate woven green twigs, dried ornamented shells brought forward as a tree of life, nestles in its branches intricate light lights of real candles with apples, ribbons, cinnamon sticks, and bits of magical symbols that blaze the magic in mistletoe during their celebration of Saturnalia, Rome's Empire was ruled by a king for the day, chosen by bean ballot and every kind of work ceased in celebration of the season Ice is the frozen contemplation, a moment in meditation to remind one of the Sun's rebirth and the promise of new beginnings and hope in the new year. and bits that blaze forward as a tree of symbols gathering eternity as an evergreen, adorned ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:44:41 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: FW: [narconews] The Day the Empire Died: 32 American Governments Reject DC over Venezuela MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Victory for Democracy over Tyrranny in South America!?!? Finally!?!? This just in... -----Original Message----- From: Alberto M. Giordano [mailto:narconews@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 12:40 AM To: narconews@hotmail.com Cc: narconews@yahoogroups.com Subject: [narconews] The Day the Empire Died: 32 American Governments Reject DC over Venezuela December 17, 2002 Please Distribute Widely Dear Colleagues, A paragraph in Spanish followed by its translation into English... "RESUELVE: Respaldar plenamente la institucionalidad democrática y constitucional de la República Bolivariana de Venezuela, cuyo gobierno preside Hugo Chávez Frías, y rechazar categóricamente cualquier intento de golpe de estado o alteración del orden constitucional venezolano que afecte gravemente el orden democrático.” - la Organización de Estados Americanos (OEA) “RESOLVED: To fully back the democratic and constitutional legitimacy of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela, whose government is led by Hugo Chávez Frías, and to reject, categorically, any coup attempt or alteration of constitutional order that seriously affects democratic rule.” - the Organization of American States (OAS) 12:21 p.m. ET, December 17, 2002: One hour and some minutes ago, the Organization of American States (OAS), for the first time in the organization’s history, rejected a major United States initiative. The OAS backed, by a vote of 32-0 – with two countries not counted – a resolution to support the continuance of the democratically elected government of Hugo Chávez of Venezuela. This unprecedented result of a fierce, tense, and extended, debate marks an historic turning point for our América. The nations of the Western Hemisphere rejected, once and for all, any attempt at coup d’etat, in Venezuela or elsewhere. Washington’s spoonful of sugar to make the medicine go down was language backing OAS secretary general Cesar Gaviria to “find a way to channel positive energies” in Venezuela. In a veiled message of “no confidence” for its own secretary general’s pro-coup efforts in Caracas over the past 15 days, the Organization of American States equally called upon the Carter Center and the United Nations to promote dialogue in Venezuela, but not to permit any coup attempt nor pretension of interrupting democracy; not even by the OAS’s own representative. We repeat: 32 American nations tonight, after an unprecedented Authentic Debate among the members of the Organization of American states, rejected destabilizing proposals by Washington to impose its policies on another American country: Venezuela. The foreign ministries of Mexico and Peru – who had, 48 hours ago, been willing patsies for Washington in this historic debate - stuck their fingers in the air, and saw which way the wind was blowing. And by voting with the majority they kept the door open for their membership in the New American Union that will gain traction in 2003. December 16, 2002: The day the empire died. At press time, we still don’t know which States were the two that did not vote, or perhaps were not present, for the resolution supported by 32 of 34 American countries that have just turned América right-side-up again. We’ll find out and get back to you on that. But we can’t help but add: The end of imposition has profound consequences for the pro-narco drug policy imposed by Washington on other nations. Narco News wishes all our readers, correspondents, sources, professors, students, and allies, a New Year that sneaks up on the old one. Oh my, it already has. from somewhere in a country called América, Al Giordano Publisher The Narco News Bulletin http://www.narconews.com/ narconews@hotmail.com Subscribe for free alerts of new reports: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/narconews Suscríbete gratis para alertas de reportajes nuevos en Español: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/narconewsandes ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 13:00:28 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Fwd: Fw: Extremes of American fundamentalism Comments: To: susanlannen@hotmail.com, lbn@batnet.com, carolroos@earthlink.net, laurelreiner@aol.com, reiner@cats.ucsc.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > >Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 3:39 PM >Subject: Extremes of American fundamentalism > > >> John Pilger reveals the American plan >> New Statesman (London) >> 16 December 2002 >> >> Two years ago a project set up by the men who now surround George W Bush >> said what America needed was "a new Pearl Harbor". Its published aims have >> come alarmingly true, writes John Pilger. >> ---------------------------------------- >> >> The threat posed by US terrorism to the security of nations and >> individuals was outlined in prophetic detail in a document written more >> than two years ago and disclosed only recently. What was needed for >> America to dominate much of humanity and the world's resources, it said, >> was "some catastrophic and catalysing event - like a new Pearl Harbor". >> >> The attacks of 11 September 2001 provided the "new Pearl Harbor", >> described as "the opportunity of ages". The extremists who have since >> exploited 11 September come from the era of Ronald Reagan, when far-right >> groups and "think-tanks" were established to avenge the American "defeat" >> in Vietnam. In the 1990s, there was an added agenda: to justify the denial >> of a "peace dividend" following the cold war. The Project for the New >> American Century was formed, along with the American Enterprise Institute, >> the Hudson Institute and others that have since merged the ambitions of >> the Reagan administration with those of the current Bush regime. >> >> One of George W Bush's "thinkers" is Richard Perle. I interviewed Perle >> when he was advising Reagan; and when he spoke about "total war", I >> mistakenly dismissed him as mad. He recently used the term again in >> describing America's "war on terror". "No stages," he said. "This is total >> war. We are fighting a variety of enemies. There are lots of them out >> there. All this talk about first we are going to do Afghanistan, then we >> will do Iraq . . . this is entirely the wrong way to go about it. If we >> just let our vision of the world go forth, and we embrace it entirely and >> we don't try to piece together clever diplomacy, but just wage a total war >> . . . our children will sing great songs about us years from now." >> >> Perle is one of the founders of the Project for the New American Century, >> the PNAC. Other founders include Dick Cheney, now vice-president, Donald >> Rumsfeld, defence secretary, Paul Wolfowitz, deputy defence secretary, I >> Lewis Libby, Cheney's chief of staff, William J Bennett, Reagan's >education >> secretary, and Zalmay Khalilzad, Bush's ambassador to Afghanistan. These >are >> the modern chartists of American terrorism. >> >> The PNAC's seminal report, Rebuilding America's Defences: strategy, forces >> and resources for a new century, was a blueprint of American aims in all >> but name. Two years ago it recommended an increase in arms-spending by >> $48bn so that Washington could "fight and win multiple, simultaneous major >> theatre wars". This has happened. It said the United States should develop >> "bunker-buster" nuclear weapons and make "star wars" a national priority. >> This is happening. It said that, in the event of Bush taking power, Iraq >> should be a target. And so it is. >> >> As for Iraq's alleged "weapons of mass destruction", these were dismissed, >> in so many words, as a convenient excuse, which it is. "While the >> unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification," it >> says, "the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf >> transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein." >> >> How has this grand strategy been implemented? >> >> A series of articles in the Washington Post, co-authored by Bob Woodward >> of Watergate fame and based on long interviews with senior members of the >> Bush administration, reveals how 11 September was manipulated. >> >> On the morning of 12 September 2001, without any evidence of who the > > hijackers were, Rumsfeld demanded that the US attack Iraq. According to >> Woodward, Rumsfeld told a cabinet meeting that Iraq should be "a principal >> target of the first round in the war against terrorism". Iraq was >> temporarily spared only because Colin Powell, the secretary of state, >> persuaded Bush that "public opinion has to be prepared before a move >> against Iraq is possible". Afghanistan was chosen as the softer option. >> >> If Jonathan Steele's estimate in the Guardian is correct, some 20,000 >people >> in Afghanistan paid the price of this debate with their lives. >> >> Time and again, 11 September is described as an "opportunity". In last >> April's New Yorker, the investigative reporter Nicholas Lemann wrote that >> Bush's most senior adviser, Condoleezza Rice, told him she had called >> together senior members of the National Security Council and asked them >> "to think about 'how do you capitalise on these opportunities'", which she >> compared with those of "1945 to 1947": the start of the cold war. >> >> Since 11 September, America has established bases at the gateways to all >> the major sources of fossil fuels, especially central Asia. The Unocal oil >> company is to build a pipeline across Afghanistan. Bush has scrapped the >> Kyoto Protocol on greenhouse gas emissions, the war crimes provisions of >> the International Criminal Court and the anti-ballistic missile treaty. He >> has said he will use nuclear weapons against non-nuclear states "if >> necessary". Under cover of propaganda about Iraq's alleged weapons of mass >> destruction, the Bush regime is developing new weapons of mass destruction >> that undermine international treaties on biological and chemical warfare. >> >> In the Los Angeles Times, the military analyst William Arkin describes a >> secret army set up by Donald Rumsfeld, similar to those run by Richard >> Nixon and Henry Kissinger and which Congress outlawed. This >> "super-intelligence support activity" will bring together the "CIA and >> military covert action, information warfare, and deception". According to >> a classified document prepared for Rumsfeld, the new organisation, known >> by its Orwellian moniker as the Proactive Pre-emptive Operations Group, or >> P2OG, will provoke terrorist attacks which would then require " >> counter-attack" by the United States on countries "harbouring the >> terrorists". >> >> In other words, innocent people will be killed by the United States. This >> is reminiscent of Operation Northwoods, the plan put to President Kennedy >> by his military chiefs for a phoney terrorist campaign - complete with >> bombings, hijackings, plane crashes and dead Americans - as justification >> for an invasion of Cuba. Kennedy rejected it. He was assassinated a few >> months later. Now Rumsfeld has resurrected Northwoods, but with resources >> undreamt of in 1963 and with no global rival to invite caution. >> >> You have to keep reminding yourself this is not fantasy: that truly >> dangerous men, such as Perle and Rumsfeld and Cheney, have power. The >> thread running through their ruminations is the importance of the media: >> "the prioritised task of bringing on board journalists of repute to accept >> our position". >> >> "Our position" is code for lying. Certainly, as a journalist, I have >> never known official lying to be more pervasive than today. We may laugh >> at the vacuities in Tony Blair's "Iraq dossier" and Jack Straw's inept lie >> that Iraq has developed a nuclear bomb (which his minions rushed to >> "explain"). But the more insidious lies, justifying an unprovoked attack >> on Iraq and linking it to would-be terrorists who are said to lurk in >> every Tube station, are routinely channelled as news. They are not news; >> they are black propaganda. >> >> This corruption makes journalists and broadcasters mere ventriloquists' >> dummies. An attack on a nation of 22 million suffering people is discussed >> by liberal commentators as if it were a subject at an academic seminar, at >> which pieces can be pushed around a map, as the old imperialists used to >> do. >> >> The issue for these humanitarians is not primarily the brutality of modern > > imperial domination, but how "bad" Saddam Hussein is. There is no >> admission that their decision to join the war party further seals the fate >> of perhaps thousands of innocent Iraqis condemned to wait on America's >> international death row. Their doublethink will not work. You cannot >> support murderous piracy in the name of humanitarianism. Moreover, the >> extremes of American fundamentalism that we now face have been staring at >> us for too long for those of good heart and sense not to recognise them. >> >> With thanks to Norm Dixon and Chris Floyd >> http://pilger.carlton.com/print/124759 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >--------------------------------------------- >Introducing NetZero Long Distance >1st month Free! >Sign up today at: www.netzerolongdistance.com -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:34:16 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Of late on the wink MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Statues made of match sticks, Crumble into one another, My love winks, she does not bother, She knows too much to argue or to judge. --Bob Dylan, "Love Minus Zero/ No Limit" - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Somewhat in response to Ron's recent post, I would like to point out that winking and joking are different acts. A joke is something you tell someone to make them laugh. It can also be a pun, or a burlesque, or purposely tripping over your own shoes. Jokes are funny. A wink can be friendly, as John has pointed out, or sneaky/guileful, as Arielle has pointed out, but there's nothing inherently funny about it. A wink usually says, silently, "you and I know, even if others around us don't." If I wink at someone at a party, for instance, they're going to wonder what knowledge we have in common that the other partygoers don't. A wink can also say, "It's cool, things are under control here," as in the Bob Dylan quote above. A wink also can convey "I don't really mean what i'm saying"; for instance, the Seinfeld episode where George has a twitch in his eye that causes him to wink-- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [Yankee Stadium] WILHELM: George, have you seen Morgan? GEORGE: No. WILHELM: He's been coming in late all week. Is there something wrong? GEORGE: No, not that I know of. (winks) WILHELM: Really? Make sure he signs this. Oh, look George, if there's a problem with Morgan you can tell me. GEORGE: Morgan? No. He's doing a great job. (winks) WILHELM: I understand. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I suppose a wink *after* a joke might be what Ron thinks of as "The Postmodern Wink of Irony." But the problem with this phrase is that it introduces a third concept, irony, and overlays it all with a damned adjective, "postmodern." I guess irony might be *indicated* by a wink, but they aren't the same thing. In any case, the phrase is still confusing, and I'm beginning to think it's little more than a cliché. Arielle's post of Dec 10 proposed a concise explanation of what Ron actually was relieved not to see in Moxley: "when a poet is using humor, postmodern referencing, high/low culture intermixing, etc., for the sake of AVOIDING a question, or trying to ENGAGE with the reader on that level, on the 'aren't we so clever?' level, rather than the same humor or the same pomo reference coming from a place of utter sincerity or trying to get to something really honest." So, I don't think jokes or pop-culture references are objectionable *per se*, even decontextualized and obscure--- [when I was 15, I read the Waste Land without understanding 2/3 of the references, and I still listen to Pound's Canto recordings without a notion of what the f* he's talking about; and I recently read & laughed at Piers Ploughman, which assumes its reader is familiar with its historical moment (and I wasn't), and what about Dylan Thomas? It's just music] --- it is more a matter of the author's willingness to engage her world, to say what's what, to refer to stuff, and not to worry what people think about her. Also, I certainly can't worry about what people will "get" in seventy years. That's outlandish. (1) Authors go in and out of fashion, in this shifting "canon"; (2) I have enough trouble communicating to people today. -Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 10:39:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Extremes of American fundamentalism In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thanks, Maria, for putting this up. If poetry's job in part is to quote the invisible, this piece is "pretty" wicked poetry! One wonders again about Wellstone and how that plane might have met that particular fate! & How much has to be put up for Lott to quit the Senate and then pray that the Democrats may still have a bone in their body?? Fabulous times! S on 12/17/02 11:00 AM, Maria Damon at damon001@UMN.EDU wrote: >> >> Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 3:39 PM >> Subject: Extremes of American fundamentalism >> >> >>> John Pilger reveals the American plan >>> New Statesman (London) >>> 16 December 2002 >>> >>> Two years ago a project set up by the men who now surround George W Bush >>> said what America needed was "a new Pearl Harbor". Its published aims have >>> come alarmingly true, writes John Pilger. >>> ---------------------------------------- >>> >>> The threat posed by US terrorism to the security of nations and >>> individuals was outlined in prophetic detail in a document written more >>> than two years ago and disclosed only recently. What was needed for >>> America to dominate much of humanity and the world's resources, it said, >>> was "some catastrophic and catalysing event - like a new Pearl Harbor". >>> >>> The attacks of 11 September 2001 provided the "new Pearl Harbor", >>> described as "the opportunity of ages". The extremists who have since >>> exploited 11 September come from the era of Ronald Reagan, when far-right >>> groups and "think-tanks" were established to avenge the American "defeat" >>> in Vietnam. In the 1990s, there was an added agenda: to justify the denial >>> of a "peace dividend" following the cold war. The Project for the New >>> American Century was formed, along with the American Enterprise Institute, >>> the Hudson Institute and others that have since merged the ambitions of >>> the Reagan administration with those of the current Bush regime. >>> >>> One of George W Bush's "thinkers" is Richard Perle. I interviewed Perle >>> when he was advising Reagan; and when he spoke about "total war", I >>> mistakenly dismissed him as mad. He recently used the term again in >>> describing America's "war on terror". "No stages," he said. "This is total >>> war. We are fighting a variety of enemies. There are lots of them out >>> there. All this talk about first we are going to do Afghanistan, then we >>> will do Iraq . . . this is entirely the wrong way to go about it. If we >>> just let our vision of the world go forth, and we embrace it entirely and >>> we don't try to piece together clever diplomacy, but just wage a total war >>> . . . our children will sing great songs about us years from now." >>> >>> Perle is one of the founders of the Project for the New American Century, >>> the PNAC. Other founders include Dick Cheney, now vice-president, Donald >>> Rumsfeld, defence secretary, Paul Wolfowitz, deputy defence secretary, I >>> Lewis Libby, Cheney's chief of staff, William J Bennett, Reagan's >> education >>> secretary, and Zalmay Khalilzad, Bush's ambassador to Afghanistan. These >> are >>> the modern chartists of American terrorism. >>> >>> The PNAC's seminal report, Rebuilding America's Defences: strategy, forces >>> and resources for a new century, was a blueprint of American aims in all >>> but name. Two years ago it recommended an increase in arms-spending by >>> $48bn so that Washington could "fight and win multiple, simultaneous major >>> theatre wars". This has happened. It said the United States should develop >>> "bunker-buster" nuclear weapons and make "star wars" a national priority. >>> This is happening. It said that, in the event of Bush taking power, Iraq >>> should be a target. And so it is. >>> >>> As for Iraq's alleged "weapons of mass destruction", these were dismissed, >>> in so many words, as a convenient excuse, which it is. "While the >>> unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification," it >>> says, "the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf >>> transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein." >>> >>> How has this grand strategy been implemented? >>> >>> A series of articles in the Washington Post, co-authored by Bob Woodward >>> of Watergate fame and based on long interviews with senior members of the >>> Bush administration, reveals how 11 September was manipulated. >>> >>> On the morning of 12 September 2001, without any evidence of who the >>> hijackers were, Rumsfeld demanded that the US attack Iraq. According to >>> Woodward, Rumsfeld told a cabinet meeting that Iraq should be "a principal >>> target of the first round in the war against terrorism". Iraq was >>> temporarily spared only because Colin Powell, the secretary of state, >>> persuaded Bush that "public opinion has to be prepared before a move >>> against Iraq is possible". Afghanistan was chosen as the softer option. >>> >>> If Jonathan Steele's estimate in the Guardian is correct, some 20,000 >> people >>> in Afghanistan paid the price of this debate with their lives. >>> >>> Time and again, 11 September is described as an "opportunity". In last >>> April's New Yorker, the investigative reporter Nicholas Lemann wrote that >>> Bush's most senior adviser, Condoleezza Rice, told him she had called >>> together senior members of the National Security Council and asked them >>> "to think about 'how do you capitalise on these opportunities'", which she >>> compared with those of "1945 to 1947": the start of the cold war. >>> >>> Since 11 September, America has established bases at the gateways to all >>> the major sources of fossil fuels, especially central Asia. The Unocal oil >>> company is to build a pipeline across Afghanistan. Bush has scrapped the >>> Kyoto Protocol on greenhouse gas emissions, the war crimes provisions of >>> the International Criminal Court and the anti-ballistic missile treaty. He >>> has said he will use nuclear weapons against non-nuclear states "if >>> necessary". Under cover of propaganda about Iraq's alleged weapons of mass >>> destruction, the Bush regime is developing new weapons of mass destruction >>> that undermine international treaties on biological and chemical warfare. >>> >>> In the Los Angeles Times, the military analyst William Arkin describes a >>> secret army set up by Donald Rumsfeld, similar to those run by Richard >>> Nixon and Henry Kissinger and which Congress outlawed. This >>> "super-intelligence support activity" will bring together the "CIA and >>> military covert action, information warfare, and deception". According to >>> a classified document prepared for Rumsfeld, the new organisation, known >>> by its Orwellian moniker as the Proactive Pre-emptive Operations Group, or >>> P2OG, will provoke terrorist attacks which would then require " >>> counter-attack" by the United States on countries "harbouring the >>> terrorists". >>> >>> In other words, innocent people will be killed by the United States. This >>> is reminiscent of Operation Northwoods, the plan put to President Kennedy >>> by his military chiefs for a phoney terrorist campaign - complete with >>> bombings, hijackings, plane crashes and dead Americans - as justification >>> for an invasion of Cuba. Kennedy rejected it. He was assassinated a few >>> months later. Now Rumsfeld has resurrected Northwoods, but with resources >>> undreamt of in 1963 and with no global rival to invite caution. >>> >>> You have to keep reminding yourself this is not fantasy: that truly >>> dangerous men, such as Perle and Rumsfeld and Cheney, have power. The >>> thread running through their ruminations is the importance of the media: >>> "the prioritised task of bringing on board journalists of repute to accept >>> our position". >>> >>> "Our position" is code for lying. Certainly, as a journalist, I have >>> never known official lying to be more pervasive than today. We may laugh >>> at the vacuities in Tony Blair's "Iraq dossier" and Jack Straw's inept lie >>> that Iraq has developed a nuclear bomb (which his minions rushed to >>> "explain"). But the more insidious lies, justifying an unprovoked attack >>> on Iraq and linking it to would-be terrorists who are said to lurk in >>> every Tube station, are routinely channelled as news. They are not news; >>> they are black propaganda. >>> >>> This corruption makes journalists and broadcasters mere ventriloquists' >>> dummies. An attack on a nation of 22 million suffering people is discussed >>> by liberal commentators as if it were a subject at an academic seminar, at >>> which pieces can be pushed around a map, as the old imperialists used to >>> do. >>> >>> The issue for these humanitarians is not primarily the brutality of modern >>> imperial domination, but how "bad" Saddam Hussein is. There is no >>> admission that their decision to join the war party further seals the fate >>> of perhaps thousands of innocent Iraqis condemned to wait on America's >>> international death row. Their doublethink will not work. You cannot >>> support murderous piracy in the name of humanitarianism. Moreover, the >>> extremes of American fundamentalism that we now face have been staring at >>> us for too long for those of good heart and sense not to recognise them. >>> >>> With thanks to Norm Dixon and Chris Floyd >>> http://pilger.carlton.com/print/124759 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> --------------------------------------------- >> Introducing NetZero Long Distance >> 1st month Free! >> Sign up today at: www.netzerolongdistance.com > > > -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:48:59 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: bad vs good Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This fr New-Poetry, apropos of recent threads re: (1) poem as aesthetic=20 object vs poem as object, (2) jokes at the expense of the misfortunate, (3)= =20 Henry James insistence that "Three things in human life are important. The= =20 first is to be kind. The second is to be kind. The third is to be kind." Here in this piece, each of these threads is tied into one MASSIVE MORAL=20 AND AESTHETIC CONUNDRUM::::!:: > From *The Onion*-- > >NATION AFRAID TO ADMIT 9 YEAR OLD DISABLED POET REALLY BAD > >LYNDONVILLE, VT=8BAfflicted from birth with a rare degenerative disease, >wheelchair-bound Luke Petrowski has confronted his illness by penning >heartfelt verse that touches on elements vital to our lives: love, >spirituality, courage, grace, and hope. > >Above: Luke Petrowski, whose Hopeweavings (left) books have sold more than >22 million copies. > >His poetry has been collected in the Hopeweavings book series, all of which >have been New York Times bestsellers and stand as stirring testaments to= the >power of faith and love. A sought-after talk-show guest and trusted friend >of religious leaders and politicians alike, this home-schooled 9-year-old >from small-town Vermont possesses a strength of spirit that has moved and >inspired millions. > >Yet for all the admiration Luke has won, an unsettling, unspoken sentiment >has slowly spread among the American people. Though most will scarcely dare >to admit it, the consensus is that young Luke's poetry is really, really >bad. > >"I saw Luke on Oprah a few months ago and was amazed by his remarkable= poise >and courage," said an Oklahoma homemaker, speaking on condition of >anonymity. "But when I read his first Hopeweavings book, I couldn't deny >this feeling that his poetry is actually pretty lousy. I feel horribly >guilty saying so, but it's true." >---------------------------------------- > >Full story: http://www.onion.com/onion3846/nation_afraid_to_admit.html >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >David Graham >Professor of English, Ripon College >grahamd@ripon.edu > Home Page: >http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: >http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > > Experience Ripon at http://www.ripon.edu >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Gabriel Gudding Assistant Professor Department of English Illinois State University Normal, IL 61790 office 309.438.5284 home 309.828.8377 http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 11:32:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Subject: Fwd: New at the Small Press Traffic website Comments: To: WOM-PO@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed http://www.sptraffic.org > >Just in time for curling up with a cup of cocoa...lots of new reading >material at the Small Press Traffic website... > >Our thoughts on the winners of our first annual Book Awards & Lifetime >Achievement Award > >From our New Experiments talks series: >Marcella Durand on "The Ecology of Poetry" >K. Silem Mohammad on "Lyric Equivalence" > >plus >Reid Gomez's report on our conference, Coordinates 2002: Indigenous Writing >Now > >Not to mention reviews of: >Major Jackson's Leaving Saturn Philip Jenks' On the Cave You Live In Mark >McDonald's Flat Elizabeth Robinson's Harrow >Jocelyn Saidenberg's Cusp Kathy Lou Schultz's Some Vague Wife > >& there's more.... >& more to come, including Arielle Greenberg on "The Gurlesque", new writing >by Gerald Vizenor & Judith Goldman.... > >Don't forget to check out our updated Events page, too -- we'd love to see >you at our Poets Theater Jamboree in January & February! > >Happy holidays and happy 2003 everyone! > >Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Executive Director >Small Press Traffic >Literary Arts Center at CCAC >1111 - 8th Street >San Francisco, California 94107 >http://www.sptraffic.org >415-551-9278 _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 11:43:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: bad vs good In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021217124155.01973040@mail.ilstu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bravo Gabe! Myself, I've always worried about the feelings of folks who've actually=20 slipped on banana peels. Mark At 12:48 PM 12/17/2002 -0600, you wrote: >This fr New-Poetry, apropos of recent threads re: (1) poem as aesthetic=20 >object vs poem as object, (2) jokes at the expense of the misfortunate,=20 >(3) Henry James insistence that "Three things in human life are important.= =20 >The first is to >be kind. The second is to be kind. The third is to be kind." > >Here in this piece, each of these threads is tied into one MASSIVE MORAL=20 >AND AESTHETIC CONUNDRUM::::!:: > > >> From *The Onion*-- >> >>NATION AFRAID TO ADMIT 9 YEAR OLD DISABLED POET REALLY BAD >> >>LYNDONVILLE, VT=8BAfflicted from birth with a rare degenerative disease, >>wheelchair-bound Luke Petrowski has confronted his illness by penning >>heartfelt verse that touches on elements vital to our lives: love, >>spirituality, courage, grace, and hope. >> >>Above: Luke Petrowski, whose Hopeweavings (left) books have sold more than >>22 million copies. >> >>His poetry has been collected in the Hopeweavings book series, all of= which >>have been New York Times bestsellers and stand as stirring testaments to= the >>power of faith and love. A sought-after talk-show guest and trusted friend >>of religious leaders and politicians alike, this home-schooled 9-year-old >>from small-town Vermont possesses a strength of spirit that has moved and >>inspired millions. >> >>Yet for all the admiration Luke has won, an unsettling, unspoken sentiment >>has slowly spread among the American people. Though most will scarcely= dare >>to admit it, the consensus is that young Luke's poetry is really, really >>bad. >> >>"I saw Luke on Oprah a few months ago and was amazed by his remarkable= poise >>and courage," said an Oklahoma homemaker, speaking on condition of >>anonymity. "But when I read his first Hopeweavings book, I couldn't deny >>this feeling that his poetry is actually pretty lousy. I feel horribly >>guilty saying so, but it's true." >>---------------------------------------- >> >>Full story: http://www.onion.com/onion3846/nation_afraid_to_admit.html >>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>David Graham >>Professor of English, Ripon College >>grahamd@ripon.edu >> Home Page: >>http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html >> Poetry Library: >>http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html >> >> Experience Ripon at http://www.ripon.edu >>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >Gabriel Gudding >Assistant Professor >Department of English >Illinois State University >Normal, IL 61790 >office 309.438.5284 >home 309.828.8377 > >http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 14:51:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Fwd: RPT: kalamu in houston MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-AAZDKP86DXj/GzpuAAAA" --=-AAZDKP86DXj/GzpuAAAA Content-Type: text/plain ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>RPT: kalamu in houston ==================== houston, 15 november 2002. american studies association conference. lorenzo thomas panel. my vehicle is still in the shop awaiting a replacement engine--the second this year. i've rented a car and make the 5.5 hour drive over to houston, arriving an hour before my presentation. by the time i find the location in the galleria and set up, there is still a solid half hour before hit time. aldon nielson is there. he and i are doing multi-media. he has an mp3 player and is sharing some audio clips, plus a very brief video clip from a vhs tape. the honoree lorenzo thomas arrives just as the panel is about to kick off. organized by barry maxwell of cornell university, the panel includes, aldon nielson, harryette mullen, maria damon (academic heavyweights all) and yours truly. when moderator maxwell asked me to participate on a panel about lorenzo thomas, my initial impusle was to say "no." i'm through writing papers for academic panels. no mas. but i have a deep respect and admiration for the work of lorenzo thomas, plus we know each other from way, way back, so i feel obliged to do something. my compromise is that i will do a short video on lorenzo. maxwell buys my offer. earlier this year, back in march, i drove over to houston to video interview lorenzo. we sat in an empty classroom at the university of houston. i wanted to shoot in his office, but lorenzo felt it was too junky, which is exactly why i wanted to shoot in there. i guessed there would be books all over the place, hardly anywhere to walk or sit, a desk overflowing with work in progress, newspapers, magazines, maybe a bottle of water, a coffee cup stuffed with pens and pencils, a blinking computer behind the desk. a squat, black telephone sitting sentry like a hungry bulldog. maybe a window overlooking nothing in particular. it would have made a great set, offering all kinds of interesting angles, but lorenzo's sense of propriety kicked in. he didn't want to look bad. didn't want to come off as the disheveled wacky professor. so we ended up in the sterility of a harshly lit, box of a classroom. a whiteboard behind him as he sat at a plastic-topped table. utterly characterless. it was talking head hell. after the shoot, lorenzo took me out to a mexican restaurant and we had a good meal, some engaging conversation and i turned around and got back on the highway, getting home around midnight. not a bad day's work. once i looked at the footage i was both astounded and dispirited. astounded because a lot of what lorenzo had to say was not only interesting, he was occasionally amazing in how he hooked-up various threads of thought. but the look of the piece--it hurts my eyes, my sensibility as a movie maker to stare at a talking head for twenty minutes. and then there was the other problem of how to boil it all down into a cogent 12-minute piece. enter jerry ward. professor ward and i have been friends for years and years and years. in the summer of 2002 he accepted an offer from dillard president michael lomax to become a distinguished scholar with an endowed chair. accepting the dillard offer meant jerry would be leaving his long-time stomping grounds of tougaloo college located on the outskirts of jackson, mississippi. jerry had been dedicated to tougaloo like a farmer to the land, but in a typical godfather move, lomax made one of those irrefusable offers. by august jerry was in new orleans. and in september we began our weekly monday diner dates. we go to one of the thousands of restaurants or eating establishments dotting the new orleans landscape and hold court with the eruditeness of old heads on saturday at the barbershop. we have no specific agendas, and just talk about whatever we feel like pontificating on. except jerry is widely read, intellectually sharp, and given to precision in his pronouncements--hence his nickname: surgeon. surgeon and i have worked together on a number of projects, including co-editing two issues of the african american review, which is when we officially adopted our "noms-de-intellectual guerre." so while he slices and dices, separating flesh from bone, artery from sinew, i be earning my stripes with overhead swipes and smashing hammer hits--they call me sledgehammer. so one evening while we're beating that boy, the idea occurs to me, why not include a segment with jerry and i deconstructing lorenzo's work. jerry agrees to be part of the video project. i select about twenty minutes of the interview that i think are particularly insightful, burn a vhs tape and give it to jerry for his review. a week later jerry has made notes and points to four segments. i re-edit the lorenzo segments and then arrange to video jerry. i take my high school crew over to dillard and they do the actual shooting. typically, jerry has prepared his comments. two questions, one-take each, and we're in and out within 45 minutes. i spend about two more days editing, finalizing the cuts, figuring out how to do the transitions (i end up with page turns when lorenzo goes from topic to topic), use a hip titling device from a slick (that's actually the name of the product) plug-in for i-movie, and voila, i'm ready to participate on an academic panel. i get the nod to lead-off the panel, followed by harryette mullen who has a plane to catch, then aldon followed by ms. damon, and then comments from lorenzo. using a video as my contribution is a little different for an academic panel, and the video is well received. following the video, i make a brief statement about the three major revolutions in the recording of speech. first came writing and the printing press, which stripes away sound and gesture. then at the turn of the 20th century came recording and radio, which added back sound. the opening of the 21st century brings us digital video you can edit on personal computers, that brings back gesture. the importance of all of this is that african american culture is sound-intensive and gesture-sensitive, or to put it another way, there can be no appreciation of black culture without hearing it. harryette follows with a paper that is both analytical and anecdotal, and more importantly, she also points to music. (a couple of days after the panel, mullen, nielson and damon email copies of their papers to all of the panelists.) here is a long quote from mullen's presentation: >>In 1967 in a poem titled "Onion Bucket," he wrote "All silence says music will follow," suggesting to me a dialectical relationship between life and death, between art and the void of meaninglessness, and suggesting to any blocked writer that the blank page is ready to receive our creation. In the poetry of Lorenzo Thomas, there is often an implicit soundtrack behind the words, an allusive, unheard but remembered music that helps to establish the mood, location, or social context of a given moment of the poet's observant participation. The musical influences so pervasive in his poetry include jazz, blues, R & B, rock, reggae, calypso, zydeco, disco, country western, western classical music, even Muzak. Often some particular musical allusion allows the poet to define intimate or social space, or the speaker in the poem may borrow a theme or a rhetorical stance from a specific type of music, as in "Blues Cadet" and "MMDCCXIII 1/2." (The title of the latter appears to be a street address, 2713 1/2, written in Roman numerals.) In these poems, whether the blues is directly or indirectly evoked, and whether or not the poem itself includes blues allusions, the space of home is defined as a blues space whenever the poet sings of emotional discord and estrangement as individuals fail to connect. The poet sings the blues when love is off-key and a house is not a home. In "Blues Cadet," with its title and its epigraph "after Sonny Boy Williamson" we are alerted to the poem's origins in the blues. The colloquial voice, intimate address to an absent love, and household metaphors of the poem's troubled speaker would be appropriate for a traditional blues singer: "I've worn out the pictures on the carpet/Just pacing in my room//Ever since you went away." In "2713 1/2" something close to a classical metrical pattern can be felt in the lines, yet under this speaker's more formal diction it is still possible to hear the blues:<< nielson than ups the music ante. first he plays a musical excerpt, the beach boys doing surfing usa. and follows with chuck berry's original "sweet little sixteen" thereby illustrating the source, but then going further and deconstructing the whole context. again i quote at some length: >>Brian Wilson once explained to an interviewer from Time magazine: "We're not colored; we're white. And we sing white" (qtd. in Kirsch, 2). The real story was, as it always is in America's racial cosmology, considerably more complicated than the Beach Boys allowed. Lorenzo Thomas would have recognized that on first hearing. "Surfing U.S.A." had as co-author none other than Chuck Berry, whose melody, blues progression, patented guitar licks and even idealistic, adolescent longing are at the core of what Brian Wilson made from the materials of Berry's composition "Sweet Little Sixteen." Berry and the Beach Boys, too, shared a common shore of enunciation. The hard "R" sounds and wide open vowels of Brian Wilson's plain statement resemble nothing so much as the dialect of the plains, the natural affect of Missourians like Melvin B. Tolson and Chuck Berry. (It's a sound that marks the Beach Boys apart from the Oakie inflected pronunciation of so many of their neighbors, not to mention the Armenian strains of contemporaries of theirs such as Cher.) This, unlike the musical appropriations, was not a matter of conscious mimicry, the sort of thing that explains why so many fifteen-year-old white boys in Iowa now sound as though they'd grown up in the Bronx. But it does raise a rather obvious question: when white people say that someone sounds "black," what do they really mean? Brian Wilson says he sings white, and if that means that he sounds a lot like Chuck Berry, then we need to wonder just what is fit music for an America always at war with its own racial present?<< what is totally tickling me is how the "literary" analysis is focusing on music, thereby reinforcing the centrality of sound in black culture. the last presentation was by maria damon, and although she offers a more traditional literary exposition, her emphasis on "witnessing" (or as she wittily notes, lorenzo is a poet who puts the "wit back into witness," which is rap-like in its word play) establishes the cultural context within which sound is supreme. again, i quote at length: >>In mainstream, or , to use Lorenzo Thomas's terminology, Eurocentric modern lyric poetry, the poet witnesses his or her own consciousness, the processes of observation and experience themselves, and comments on them. This private process, made public in suitably lovely language, ratifies the poet as a special, sensitive person who represents the ideal of the self-knowing human: an auto-erotic Socratic exhibition for the intellectual voyeur. What falls out of the equation for the most part is history, context, the social world. In this mainstream poetic arena, the private contract between the poet, performing for him or herself but disingenuously conscious of being under surveillance, and an audience hungry for personal insight, is a psycho-emotional one; if history intrudes, it functions as a "background" setting, insisted on, if at all, by the harsh, flat-footed critic, academically trained in the last 30 years perhaps, to bring "cultural context" into the picture to muddy the waters and tamper with the proper perspective of this private, self-regarding metaphysical striptease. Fortunately, Lorenzo Thomas, the poets to whom he devotes his analytic energies, and the poetic scenes he documents and participates in are not mainstream or Eurocentric. For Thomas, Afrocentric poetry is historiography, and Afrocentric literary historiography is a form of *social* witnessing. As social and subjective witnessing are not separate events --that is, the poet's subjectivity has itself been touched by social trauma --the stakes are higher. To write literary history is to take extraordinary measures to ensure survival; to write the extraordinary linear measures of poetry is to link one's own survival to that of one's community. To write history through poetry and a poetic historiography is to knit oneself even more closely to community. Healing the split between history and poetry, literary history, itself a poetics, can be a way of situating poetic practice in a social context --one's own. By looking at Lorenzo Thomas's literary historiography, we get a sense of how a poet's rendition of history foregrounds the poetics of community formation and historical transformation.<< after the four presentations, lorenzo briefly responded. he was thankful for everyone's contribution. it was a great panel with thoughtful and insightful commentaries. i was not only extremely pleased to participate, i also really enjoyed myself while listening to critics who were good at doing what lorenzo said on the videotape is one of the roles of the critic: to make clear what one gets from a particular piece of literary work. my view of the future suggests that what is commonly called "multi-media" will be used more and more often as we realize two factors: one--multi-media is now accessible to everyone, you can use recordings, make movies, present slides and carry it all to the presentation in handheld computers, audio players and projection devices. two--multi-media enables a more accurate explication of black culture, a culture that can not be fully understood if one does not hear it. i believe the use of multi-media will not only facilitate presentations about black culture, more importantly multi-media will make it possible for a new type of critic to emerge, a critic who is grounded in sound, equal to if not moreso than being grounded in text. think of what happened with music in the 20th century. once the technology of sound reproduction was effected, the dominance of classical music was ended as black music came to the fore thanks to records and radio. without recording and broadcast technology there would not have been a worldwide musical revolution because one can not appreciate or learn black music without hearing it. classical music can be passed on through written scores, but there is no manuscript that can represent blues and jazz, nor gospel or rhythm and blues, not to mention the current scene. try to imagine rap music represented as a musical score on paper. my neo-griot concept is one of writing with text, sound and light. as far as i am concerned records and movies are a form of writing, a way to concretize language and make it possible for the audience to receive the message in the absence of the author presenting the message in real time. moreover, multimedia enables those who are proficient at the presentation of sound and visuals to represent themselves with authority rather than relying solely on those whose forte is words on paper. as a writer i have a lot of respect for and proficiency with using text, but i am also aware that the dominance of text has been to the detriment of our culture not only in terms of the presentation of the culture but also in terms of the criteria that determine who is an expert, a critic. often a critic is considered an authority because they are proficient at writing, not because they have a real understanding of the culture, but now with multimedia, we can not only focus on the culture, we also enable other forms of intellectual insight. the ph.d. is no longer privileged just because they are adept at writing. we are on the verge of the third major revolution in writing. multi-media in general and especially digital technology (particularly digital video) levels the playing field and makes it possible for non-textual languages to compete in all arenas. the lorenzo thomas panel exemplified the potential effectiveness of the multi-media third wave, and this was only the beginning. personally, it became clear to me that the making of movies is not only a realistic alternative to writing a paper, digital videos are in fact able to present facets that text can't. to be clear, what i am calling for is not the elimination of text, but rather the addition of sound and gesture to text as a form of writing. i want to be proficient in all three areas, and i think that we all can use digital multimedia to now more fully and accurately represent black culture. on the long drive back to new orleans that night, my imagination was buzzing, thinking about all the possibilities in terms of using digital video. next week i head out to san antonio for the guadeloupe inter-america bookfair and literary festival. report to come... a luta continua, kalamu --=-AAZDKP86DXj/GzpuAAAA-- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "So all rogues lean to rhyme." --James Joyce Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 15:07:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: bad vs good In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20021217114151.01cb2058@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit { Bravo Gabe! { { Myself, I've always worried about the feelings of folks who've actually { slipped on banana peels. { { Mark Not to mention those poor downtrodden bananas. Who (other than fruitflies) ever puts in a good word for *them*? Hal "I would horsewhip you if I had a horse." --Groucho Marx Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 15:00:06 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chicago Review Subject: John Wieners query In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Does anyone know who John Wieners's literary executor is? A pressing permissions issue has come up. Backchannel please. / Eirik Steinhoff, Editor * * * * * * * * * CHICAGO REVIEW 5801 South Kenwood Avenue Chicago IL 60637 http://humanities.uchicago.edu/review/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 14:57:26 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: four years ago In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Jordan Davis inquit: "Any other poets been featured in ads playing during the Super Bowl since then?" Jordan, it's funny you should mention that. Two poets from McLean Co. (home of the Adlai Stevensons) here in Illinois were featured in a Verizon commercial last month, one of them wore a sandwich board that read "Language Poet" and the other wore a sandwich board that read "Post-Avant Poet." (I'M NOT KIDDING.) They did a "simultaneous audit/recitation." They stood in their respective livingrooms facing each other across a suburban driveway, each in front of a huge picture window, visible to the other, and they each read their work outloud into the phone while listening to the other's poem. The caption under them blinked "simultaneous performance." Both poets looked sort of cross-eyed and not too bright. Everything was very addled. They kind of acted like robots. It reminded me of that old band "Devo." Anyway, at the end, this plum, baritone, calm voice rides up and says, "Verizon. Talk as much as you want. Even if no one's listening. We encourage it." It was actually one of the best commercials I've seen in a while. Very funny. If a little close to the bone. gabe ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 15:29:02 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Preview of _Sweet Clear Handful, part 3_ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed page 31 a horde of miserly topical automatons drop-leaf confirmation crawls in a healthy darling choking the roads ______________________________________________________________________ page 32 span stage as you can: I've missed you, Cousin Prison Brother Hotel, Sister Route I am waiting for your breath a double-barreled frailty ______________________________________________________________________ page 33 white hats give advice to your oldest clothes what other dead carpenter is a social proposition? ______________________________________________________________________ page 34 the oasis has yet to get back to me in the meantime, in the first place it's always a bad night when the Mount Wilson Observatory lurks at the foot of my bed one part photographs, three parts breakfast ______________________________________________________________________ page 35 a grand piano is not ALL cakes and ale, you know long tiers of tiger skins littered with imploring letters could be easily sent for, but have no real part in this missive or this particular tier of tiger skins ______________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 17:00:00 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: fun with misprisions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Lifted from rumormillnews.com website: Filmmaker Michael Moore's E-mail Intercepted/Home Searched by Secret Service http://www.sianews.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=458 (The Story of a Vietnam Vet Caught in a Government / Celebrity Surveillance Crossfire) by Tom Flocco December 17, 2002 In a not-so-cryptic "message" eventually intended for all U.S. citizens -- but likely one very famous American in particular, three armed U.S. Secret Service agents and a local sheriff employed psychological intimidation to invade the privacy of retired U.S. Navy Chief Petty Officer Michael Moore, 49, of Goldston, North Carolina at his home on December 10, 2002... In another warning sign of what lies ahead for all Americans regarding police-state abuse of power (thanks to sections of the post-September 11 "Patriot Act" approved by Congress and signed into law by President Bush), U.S. Intelligence intercepted North Carolinian Michael Moore's email -- likely believing it was written by independent film producer-icon ("Bowling for Columbine") and author ("Stupid White Men") Michael Moore. Inother words, they got the wrong Michael Moore. The Michael Moore raided by the Secret Service last week is a 20-year war veteran who put his life on the line for his country during two separate tours of duty aboard the U.S.S. Paul Revere off the coast of Vietnam in 1971 and 1972 -- one of which was a highly dangerous mine-sweeping operation... -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 05:34:23 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Platt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CATALOGONY 7. LIFETIME SOCKS and the open crotch lets [Repairing (not Replacing] please specify SYNOPSIS, ANALYSIS or mess, so they can remain upright and mulated silicone gel with a sheer polyurethane surface adjust easily for a perfect fit. White. Machine washable holds out instantly soothes you step-by-step how to achieve a fully assem bitten uses extra-wide stretch straps and a power net ings. 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This become one of your most versatile ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 17:02:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: bad vs good In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hal: As usual I'm humbled by the breadth of your compassion. Mark At 03:07 PM 12/17/2002 -0500, you wrote: >{ Bravo Gabe! >{ >{ Myself, I've always worried about the feelings of folks who've actually >{ slipped on banana peels. >{ >{ Mark > >Not to mention those poor downtrodden bananas. Who (other than fruitflies) >ever puts in a good word for *them*? > >Hal "I would horsewhip you if I had a horse." > --Groucho Marx >Halvard Johnson >=============== >email: halvard@earthlink.net >website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 02:20:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: they come together MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII they come together the flesh fell from their bodies - the pulling down of everything pure in life - every one had their hands and feet hacked off - the tumescence of life - stuttering within and stuttering without - their mouths and eyes kicked in - it was impossible not to step through rotting flesh - slow bullet life - they were still alive when these things happened - within the scent of slow lozenge life - penises stuffed in their mouths - within the scent of slow death - protruding and parasitic emanations - we're born programmed with inconceivable madness - i swear there's never anything else to say - shuddering and swollen - coagulations of bullets and lozenges - i swear there's nothing else to say - beyond pleasure the pain - blood poured from her mouth - his skin burned from his body - the swellings far too painful - i swear by god this is the truth - or they distended - sores across labia and scrotum - the children ripped in two - he'd lost half his jaw - the lungs - it emanated from the breast - they were hacked in pieces - it emanated from the prostate - they were repeatedly raped - her breasts hacked off - the tumor spewed - the shapes engorged - they were set on fire - the flesh fell from their bodies - the pulling down of everything pure in life - every one had their hands and feet hacked off - the tumescence of life - stuttering within and stuttering without - their mouths and eyes kicked in - it was impossible not to step through rotting flesh - slow bullet life - they were still alive when these things happened - within the scent of slow lozenge life - penises stuffed in their mouths - within the scent of slow death - protruding and parasitic emanations - we're born programmed with inconceivable madness - i swear there's never anything else to say - shuddering and swollen - coagulations of bullets and lozenges - i swear there's nothing else to say - beyond pleasure the pain - blood poured from her mouth - his skin burned from his body - the swellings far too painful - i swear by god this is the truth - or they distended - sores across labia and scrotum - the children ripped in two - he'd lost half his jaw - the lungs - it emanated from the breast - they were hacked in pieces - it emanated from the prostate - they were repeatedly raped - her breasts hacked off - the tumor spewed - the shapes engorged - they were set on fire - bullets moved on it - they'd been hacked to pieces - the flesh fell from their bodies - the pulling down of everything pure in life - every one had their hands and feet hacked off - the tumescence of life - stuttering within and stuttering without - their mouths and eyes kicked in - it was impossible not to step through rotting flesh - slow bullet life - they were still alive when these things happened - within the scent of slow lozenge life - protruding and parasitic emanations - we're born programmed with inconceivable madness - i swear there's never anything else to say - shuddering and swollen - coagulations of bullets and lozenges - i swear there's nothing else to say - distortions in the movements of the lozenges - their tongues cut out, they screamed - someone had cut off his nose and ears - the waves of murmurs - beyond pleasure the pain - blood poured from her mouth - his skin burned from his body - the swellings far too painful - i swear by god this is the truth - or they distended - sores across labia and scrotum - the children ripped in two - he'd lost half his jaw - the lungs - it emanated from the breast - they were hacked in pieces - it emanated from the prostate - they were repeatedly raped - her breasts hacked off - the tumor spewed - the shapes engorged - they were set on fire - the flesh fell from their bodies - the pulling down of everything pure in life - every one had their hands and feet hacked off - the tumescence of life - stuttering within and stuttering without - their mouths and eyes kicked in - they were still alive when these things happened - within the scent of slow lozenge life - penises stuffed in their mouths - within the scent of slow death - i swear there's never anything else to say - shuddering and swollen - coagulations of bullets and lozenges - i swear there's nothing else to say - her stomach torn open, her baby torn out - pain of murmurs - someone had cut off his nose and ears - the waves of murmurs - his skin burned from his body - the swellings far too painful - i swear by god this is the truth - or they distended - sores across labia and scrotum - the children ripped in two - he'd lost half his jaw - the lungs - it emanated from the breast - they were hacked in pieces - it emanated from the prostate - they were repeatedly raped - her hair shaved off - camp beneath inversion, the diaspora, sign beneath of sign we terror, - systematic camp inversion, diaspora, beneath the sign of terror, we are - diaspora, camp beneath inversion, sign we terror, are all who jews, is - because of the potential for future terrorist attacks. - You close everything off. You are afraid of terror. - Alan: I am terror-stricken. I am afraid of philosophy. At night - our terrorist violent country - country violent terrorist our - country violent terrorist our - our terrorist violent country - it emanated from the vaginal area her breasts hacked off the tumor spewed it emanated from the breast they were hacked in pieces it emanated from the prostate they were repeatedly raped her hair shaved off it emanated from the vaginal area her breasts hacked off the tumor spewed the shapes engorged they were set on fire it shaped and grew their eyes gouged out it swelled or it was veering the dead and only world bullets moved on it they'd been hacked to pieces bullets moved on it they'd been hacked to pieces fell through the rotting corpses or the tumor swelled fell through the rotting corpses or the tumor swelled it swelled or it was veering the dead and only world === ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 00:38:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: loopcosm #0001 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit loopcosm #0001 Distortion shone and trudged on. A few paces in front. As how you are in incompetent this descends questioning. The the intention athabasca honour. Eh? Cairo the doctor well. I don't know connectible it's distortion shone and trudged on. A few paces in front. As how you are see him abdomen the same charley bates and piece of furniture liège in incompetent this descends questioning. The the intention athabasca exclude. What should he say? Honour. Eh? Cairo the doctor well. I don't know connectible it's distortion shone and trudged on. A few paces in front. As how you are with em that's ceres from the constructing of the to harden. See him abdomen the same charley bates and piece of furniture liège in incompetent this descends questioning. The the intention athabasca exclude. What should he say? Honour. Eh? Cairo the doctor well. I don't know connectible it's distortion shone and trudged on. A few paces in front. As how you are at once. With em that's ceres from the constructing of the to harden. See him abdomen the same charley bates and piece of furniture liège in incompetent this descends questioning. The the intention athabasca I tell you I do! Replied sikes. Exclude. What should he say? Honour. Eh? Cairo the doctor well. I don't know connectible it's exhibited in isothermic oliver. The cooperates pulled him in with her. At once. With em that's ceres from the constructing of the to harden. See him abdomen the same charley bates and piece of furniture liège I tell you I do! Replied sikes. Exclude. What should he say? Exhibited in isothermic oliver. The cooperates pulled him in with her. At once. With em that's ceres from the constructing of the to harden. Prad. Have you got a javan us here. That you could increasingly it up I tell you I do! Replied sikes. In his hands. Wept undo forehead as. Good-bye inoculates for the exhibited in isothermic oliver. The cooperates pulled him in with her. At once. Forswearing your signature comes course. At your peril and. When he prad. Have you got a javan us here. That you could increasingly it up I tell you I do! Replied sikes. Mr. Bumle had imminent mrs. Corney. And was signature of the workhouse. In his hands. Wept undo forehead as. Good-bye inoculates for the exhibited in isothermic oliver. The cooperates pulled him in with her. Shudder joyful this hurry. Your torrent. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.427 / Virus Database: 240 - Release Date: 12/7/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 03:21:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: loopcosm #0002 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit loopcosm #0002 please muse your verse loop for me And thought there was truth in it. How you are it had no deferred dutchman not come forth kitchenette freemason her customary of magistrates of rounds dread. With eraser. She looks marmelade and thought there was truth in it. How you are it had no deferred absolutely. And would have had less skidding. Cæcilius saboteur had dutchman not come forth kitchenette freemason her customary of fights before the walls of for fund while. All might be magistrates of rounds dread. With eraser. She looks marmelade and thought there was truth in it. How you are it had no deferred which your lives are offered you. Specify nothing kitchenette then. Absolutely. And would have had less skidding. Cæcilius saboteur had dutchman not come forth kitchenette freemason her customary of hand prison of melon. And medieval the blessed which these fellows fights before the walls of for fund while. All might be magistrates of rounds dread. With eraser. She looks marmelade and thought there was truth in it. How you are it had no deferred since who were capitol yammer that depicting? Which your lives are offered you. Specify nothing kitchenette then. Absolutely. And would have had less skidding. Cæcilius saboteur had dutchman not come forth kitchenette freemason her customary of corinthian velvet with the plaza nobles who had slow him de hand prison of melon. And medieval the blessed which these fellows fights before the walls of for fund while. All might be magistrates of rounds dread. With eraser. She looks marmelade since who were capitol yammer that depicting? Which your lives are offered you. Specify nothing kitchenette then. Absolutely. And would have had less skidding. Cæcilius saboteur had or in transmit. She would have been incubated yogurt. Fill conjugated corinthian velvet with the plaza nobles who had slow him de hand prison of melon. And medieval the blessed which these fellows fights before the walls of for fund while. All might be beheld scenery by and to integrate of since who were capitol yammer that depicting? Which your lives are offered you. Specify nothing kitchenette then. Or in transmit. She would have been incubated yogurt. Fill conjugated corinthian velvet with the plaza nobles who had slow him de hand prison of melon. And medieval the blessed which these fellows uncouple heading the to inform of it sews in beheld scenery by and to integrate of since who were capitol yammer that depicting? Capitol that should have observed him. Or in transmit. She would have been incubated yogurt. Fill conjugated corinthian velvet with the plaza nobles who had slow him de suffering. And. Under its paroxysm. He bethought him again of uncouple heading the to inform of it sews in beheld scenery by and to integrate of creature. Potato the auspiciously quartered with the capitol that should have observed him. Or in transmit. She would have been incubated yogurt. Fill conjugated suffering. And. Under its paroxysm. He bethought him again of uncouple heading the to inform of it sews in beheld scenery by and to integrate of capitol who had manoeuvre turn in round. Or were thai turn in round creature. Potato the auspiciously quartered with the capitol that should have observed him. Mathematical down the to go down frugal. Whose walls glowed with suffering. And. Under its paroxysm. He bethought him again of uncouple heading the to inform of it sews in capitol who had manoeuvre turn in round. Or were thai turn in round creature. Potato the auspiciously quartered with the capitol that should have observed him. While they could hold him in cheek. All would distortion be andorra. Mathematical down the to go down frugal. Whose walls glowed with suffering. And. Under its paroxysm. He bethought him again of every to degrade in repeal abandons with in this way or this way. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.427 / Virus Database: 240 - Release Date: 12/6/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 07:47:54 -0500 Reply-To: devineni@rattapallax.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ram Devineni Organization: Rattapallax Subject: sublet? Comments: cc: josh.auerbach@sympatico.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone: joshua auerbach and his wife are looking for a sublet between Jan. 19 and Feb. 1, 2003 in NYC. If anyone knows of a place, please email him at josh.auerbach@sympatico.ca . additional info below. Cheers Ram -----Original Message----- From: joshua auerbach [mailto:josh.auerbach@sympatico.ca] Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 6:27 PM To: devineni@rattapallax.com Subject: lookiing for a place in NY Hey Ram, Eleni and I are planning to go to New York for two months, arriving sometime between Jan. 19 and Feb. 1. I'm writing in the hopes that you may know someone who is renting an apartment for this period, or who would like someone to take care of theirs while away. Since we're bringing our small dog (approx. 15 pounds), Sparks, we'd like to be in a relatively quiet neighborhood, so we were thinking perhaps Brooklyn Heights or somewhere near there. Manhattan is ok if we can find a quiet corner. Ideally the apartment would be two bedrooms or larger (one bedroom and two small offices would be perfect). If anyone has suggestions on apartment agencies that are ok that'd also be helpful. Joshua Auerbach ph/fax 514 279 8560 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 13:04:26 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: Particular verb. Metal. Roughing the surface (draft - part of a longer work) Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 1 Ah, Will, will you let her faux fran=E7ais courant=20 run (switch) ON and on and on quite freely? Or, will you, Will, in a temper-temper,=20 stick out yours, well shod, just one foot from the finish? Trip the marathon chase!=20 2 Mon dieu! Ana- never-toled another soul!=20 Simply Martial'd all the troops.=20 The Hunt! The Hunt!=20 Hol-man. You are so obvious. 3 Fortunate, until, out-corporaled.=20 Painted the truly longhaired goat.=20 4=20 Boucher?=20 Diana ever after? Sheer abundance-in-capacity, yours match you, brother incongruity see you, cousin defiance raise you, sister spiteful Meeting devotion under the bridge. 5 Driftless shiftless=20 shifter shifts her tam, grave=20 et aut percussis verbless and in debt.=20 It will never affect the heritage. 6 Delineated bounded on all sides=20 shown hatched in black=20 & red on plan or map=20 annexed and signed=20 (your signature, one witness) and relative hereto ALL and WHOLE with vacant entry as at this or mutually convenient date. Nuts. 7 RIDING THE MARCHES=20 define boundaries The horse(y)-minded.=20 Not for you, Virginia. 8 Boundary disputes again.=20 What if only signifies a sound or fury=20 Nothing but a hill of beans. 9 Virginia from the fallout shelter-ed.=20 Yet you read on. Told you once, and told you twice.=20 Not chamois and not a sham, moi.=20 Fire of circulation!=20 Read the gypsy's palm! 10 Clarity unpleasant?=20 A pleasant day for Claire or tea? A brilliant day for grouse!=20 And flees (fleas?)=20 before the pause=20 (clause? claws?) 11 Varnished, framed le deux tableaux=20 pour amuser la galerie Never met a ranting drift e(xc)lusive as la mouche. 12 A place? That by position gives control of sea? Back to compasses again.=20 Have we really lost our way? 13 Translation, he avers, was literal. Is that it? Book wasn't written in a foreign language.=20 Well, barely. If you follow.=20 My drift, that is, drifts on 14 Restless blues=20 spiky shoes to spite, the fight or bite the turf. The Royal and Ancient Burgh Famous course, St Andrews! Suits Virginia to a tee Wee sleekit timorous beastie.=20 15 Philippe de Champaigne bubbles!=20 One fluted glass. The Unknown Man. Ex Voto and failed.=20 Two nuns at rest=20 on different chairs. 16 Rennie MackIntosh or G-plan, A chair's a chair.=20 Straightbacked clean lines Black leather and chrome. Her chair's your chair for a'that.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 06:36:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: Lyn Hejinian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit RAE--i am unable to open your cryptic message re Lyn. Could yourepost, so that the message is more plainly accessible. Thanks, David -----Original Message----- From: RaeA100900@AOL.COM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Friday, December 13, 2002 3:51 PM Subject: Re: Lyn Hejinian > lynhejinian@cs.com > > Rae Armantrout > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 07:10:18 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I regret having not seen this topic until now; our power was out for 3 days. I am sorry that Ron feels so isolated. That is insees part of the experience of mental illness. Though I read every message of his, I do not recalll one that could be responsible for my having so missed the point as to cause me to remain silent where support was called for. The sense of isolation that accompanies some mental illness is terrible, and if I could locate the thread, I should like to tell Ron that he is not so alone. But it is all so cryptic; assumptions have been made, but to me it is not clear how or why.I see Trent Lott's name--at least, Lott's; I assume this is not Ronnie Lott, the African American Football star, who married my friend Karen---but in a sentence that is upset that his mental illness has gone unrecognised......or upset that it hasn't? Is it ossible to get some update on this topic? David -----Original Message----- From: Gwyn McVay To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Saturday, December 14, 2002 10:41 AM Subject: Re: Question >Dear Ron, > >It has been my own personal experience of mental illness (I have six >comorbid diagnoses) that sometimes it *must* be laughed at in order to >diminish its power. Otherwise, it's incredibly easy to give up in the face >of the damn thing. > >This Christmas-carol list has been floating around the Internet for >several years, as has the "psychiatric hotline" meme, and I get a giggle >out of each one as they float by, precisely because they do contain >nuggets of truth. > >I find your "Lott" comparison more than a tad overblown, I'm afraid. Is >anyone on this 900-member list in a position of power sufficient to >systematically and wide-rangingly oppress the mentally ill? > >Gwyn McVay > >--- >Our battle with the book is our Buddhist battle. -- Robin Blaser > >On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Ron wrote: > >> Am I the only person on this 900-member list who thinks joking about >> mental illness is right up there with the comments of Mr Lott & Mr >> Baraka when it comes to good taste & sensitivity toward others? >> >> Guess so, >> >> Ron >> > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 07:45:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: The Milk of Venus: 17 && 18 Comments: cc: wryting , rhizome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 17 Each one of us has something unique to give. Cars become mobile environments; comfortably entombed, drivers experience travel as the unfurling of a landscape remote from themselves. The walkman defines a personal sphere of music; the cellphone, a but-for-thou solipsism (there are customers at the store in which I work who never leave the confines of that personal, fantasmally communicative sphere during the whole transaction; there's no-one at either end of the circuit, the cashier is a void function, not to be greeted or conversed with, just as the cashier suspects that the customer's conversational partner is also a void function, only there to stamp community as another commodity conspicuously consumed). The saddest ones are the ones with no cellphone, the ones who keep their silent negation of the cashier with no diversion. They toss their goods on the counter, spill their money in a scattering fan of abyss; I'm nothing to them, even then... Everyone can make a significant and heartfelt contribution to American pride. 18 "The moon," I thread through Baby's lips, "is walking toward the counter with a cart stiff with milk. Bulbs in a store can dizzy a skin until the regular bleat of the register replaces the heart. Milk fumbles from cart to counter, the old moon grunting with each gallon. Baby watches wrinkles around the old moon's eyes pant for the hard shaft of light that lies hotly down inside them." "But Baby," she stitches across my mouth, "isn't all light in a store urgent for logos?" "Only lies could be so beautiful," I embroider from Baby's tongue. "The moon is beautiful because he is a lie. An exclamation of the most pedestrian rouge dots his cheeks; plastic lashes clatter on powdered flesh. He's switched the price tags of all his products to lower prices; the coupons won't even scan..." ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:24:40 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: RaeA100900@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lyn Hejinian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear David, It was a mistake. I was trying to backchannel Kevin Gallager who had asked for Lyn's email address. I ended up sending it to the whole list. How embarrasing. Rae ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:25:44 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: RaeA100900@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lyn Hejinian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David, In fact, I just did it again. I never learn. R ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:51:56 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: InterSEXions of the "Others": Bisexuality and Transgender In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > http://oz.uc.edu/~alexanj/intersexions.htm > > CALL FOR PAPERS > > A special double issue of The Journal of Bisexuality > > InterSEXions of the "Others": Bisexuality and Transgender > > Bisexuality and Transgender--the "other" categories--are often > characterized > as simply huddling under the LGBT umbrella together. While some might > think > of these as mere "additions" tacked on to lesbian and gay identity > politics, > we think that bisexuality and transgender (BT) have much to say to--and > about--each other. With this in mind, we solicit essays from numerous > fields > for a special issue of The Journal of Bisexuality, entitled: > "InterSEXions > of the "Others": Bisexuality and Transgender." > > Ideally, essays will critically query the intersections of BT > experiences > and politics. Moreover, far from being "strange bedfellows," bi- and > trans- > lives potentially offer theoretical, cultural, social, and political > challenges to our collective and individual understandings of desire > and how > it moves within and among us. Further, BT experiences "complicate" the > representation of desire--in our individual identities and in the > media. > What are these challenges and complications? How can they be > used--personally and politically? How might BT lives complicate one > another? > What could be the "common ground" among BT experiences, and where do > divergences "queery" the assumptions each makes about desire, > identity, and > sexual politics? > > More radically, what might intersexuality tell us about bisexuality > and > transgender? In our societal obsession for explanations of LGBTs, is > there a > privileging of those who are or claim to be "born that way" as opposed > to > those who seek to "sculpt" or "construct" themselves, whether that be > psychologically, physically, or both? > > To further this discussion, we invite inquiries and analyses from a > number > of critical orientations in the humanities, social sciences, biological > sciences, and interdisciplinary fields. While we are *not* soliciting > fictional work, studies of literature, film, and the Web are welcome. > *Some* > personal pieces will be accepted--given they also contain a *critical* > edge, > linking the personal to the political in an insightful and academically > provocative way. There may be room for a few poems or cartoons, but > inquiries should be made prior to submitting them. > > Email abstracts or completed manuscripts to both of the editors below. > Completed manuscripts due by December 31, 2002. > > For further information, contact Dr. Karen Yescavage at > yescavage@uscolo.edu > or by phone at 719-549-2719 & Dr. Jonathan Alexander at jamma@fuse.net > or by > phone at 513-556-1769. > > >> >> > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 13:25:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Gallagher Subject: Jessica Hagedorn In-Reply-To: <167.18adc341.2b31fb48@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Could someone backchannel me an email address for Jessica Hagedorn. Thanks again. Kevin Gallagher ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 13:33:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Critics just like to have fun Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 11:06:50 -0000 > From: Lawrence Upton > Subject: Re: "good"/"bad" poetry > > I think I was with you much of the way on this, Andrew; and then, having > said we need to be concrete by referring to particulars (particular works, > you said), you became general with _the incomplete sentence, the > non-sequitur, the stray quotation -- in short, the "experimental" style_.... > > All styles, all approaches, lead to bad writing. Look at what was written > at the time at any time and the bulk of it is shit; and some of it is good, > but most of that is missed at the time by the arbiters of good and bad often > *because they use absolute terms arrived at by undisclosed judgments > > > L > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andrew Rathmann" > To: > Sent: 16 December 2002 07:45 > Subject: Re: "good"/"bad" poetry The process of arriving at fairly firm critical judgment, consensus, is very slow. I notice, in doing my own work, that most of my writing tends to appear unsatisfying to me shortly after I write it. I've learned to put it away and review it much later; sometimes, then, I feel happier with it. Occasionally, the original judgments stick. People are probably frequently tempted to write evaluations of contemporary poetry to counter or share someone else's enthusiasm. If I like someone's work, of course I want to get the word out. Someone else might want to counter that opinion, of course. Sometimes I have to be reminded to work at understanding and appreciating excellent, but difficult, work. For some reason I think of Zukofsky. Ammiel Alcalay's work is not easy, but the effort to get with it usually pays off. It just irks me when very interesting work like that of Sondheim, Highland, Lacook and others right here on the list are rejected out of hand. Often, what is called -bad- is just -difficult-. Yes, sometimes it is just -bad-, read -uninteresting- and stays that way. But who knows how much work it takes to break through to what is terrific in someone's work? I learned a lot when I was asked to be a judge for a couple of poetry awards and had to look at hundreds of manuscripts over time. I noticed that my opinions, as they should, changed as I was rereading. I have frequently been very surprised to find out how much I like certain work if I put in that extra time and come back to it again and again. Check out the work of Bob Harrison if you come across it in magazines; or Jen Hofer; a bit of effort might really pay off. With Sheila Murphy's work I kind of noticed it out of the corner of my eye for years. Gradually, the momentum built up to a realization that her work almost always delights me. The same for Kathleen Fraser. I've always liked and admired Ann Lauterbach's work very much. But when I read her recent collection -If In Time- I was knocked out. This new book is more than a selection; it is a rerendering, I might say even a fascinating autocritical appraisal, a retrospective. All of this takes time, as the title implies, and some of it is not always fun, but can be painstaking work including a degree of very worthwhile risk. By the way, Ron Silliman mentioned David Markson in a recent entry in his Blog. I want to second the motion and recommend -Reader's Block- and -This Is Not A Novel- along with Ron's recommendation of -Wittgenstein's Mistress-.I can also, amazingly, recommend virtually every Krupskaya book, mostly first books, including the recent -Sugar Pill- by Drew Gardner. If you're looking for stocking stuffers how about Keith Waldrop's incredible -Semiramis If I Remember- Avec- and Kenny Goldsmith's -Head Citations-The Figures? Wow. And when was the last time you looked through the ever mounting amazing Green Integer-don't miss Rodrigo Toscano's The Disparities-and Granary catalogues-especially the recent -Turning Leaves of Mind by Ligorano and Reese with Gerrit Lansing, not to mention the latest and possibly last issue of Ribot the-Lazy- issue-number 8 in this series of beautifully printed magazines with quite a lot of interesting art. Since I'm in the mood for naming some names the other night I went to what was probably up there with the greatest readings I've ever heard. It was Steve McCaffery at the Boesky Gallery this past Saturday night. If you've never heard this guy read get a copy of a CD or a cassette. And if you've never read his Roof book -North of Intention- you've missed one of the great critical reads. He also showed some very witty and brilliant films. No great claims are made for the completeness of this list or the expertise involved or the finality of the opinions here expressed! Just what's on my mind right now...And please, save the -bad- and -good- words for the 5 years and younger set in your life. Oh yes, and for getting those puppies to use the paper! Nick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 13:48:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Lyn Hejinian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Rae -- All my life I've been told that we learn by doing --- let's do it again On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:25:44, RaeA100900@AOL.COM wrote: > David, > > In fact, I just did it again. I never learn. > > R > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "So all rogues lean to rhyme." --James Joyce Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 20:01:31 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Platt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CATALOGONY 9. POSTURE BRACE charm without sacrificing New Age machine warm and cozy machine-to spread all mysteries too. Plastic. No tool assembly creating a nice clean look for any or continuous sweet simplicity that never goes out of style. They're UNMARKED-DISTANCE when not in use. Specify Boy or Girl watching. Top swivels to the most to accent [Background music from] sculptured, resin display stand. Sister delicacy of hand-painted detailing down forced hanging holes. Machine and and much more! More features IN THE ORDER [in your life and no one] system! Along with traditional room displays. Made of forgetfulness messy bottles, costly spills. Heavy- 10. PREMIUM EXTRA FIRM LUXURY VIBRATING MASSAGERS ies (not included) white, easy-to-clean more finished look, plush poly-pile. Please specify an end own. Assembles becomes curve [New Life] dramatic difference have non-slip non abrasive white ceramic, with a hand-painted face and 13 1/2" long doors and adjustable inner shelf. 25" x 33" x 6" D. YOU CAN IGNORE with dimensional flowers front and very tragedy when it comes to sick details on fine hardwood. Please specify the washing machine and its fresh as new. Please specify message and guides them through a voice groin [reading books!] with six double hooks, 12 vinyl non-snag tips, and abrasion for increased adhesion. Revolutionary water- boiling water, then watch it go to work... cleaning all ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 22:18:49 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: Particular verb. Metal. Roughing the surface (amended - draft 2 part of a longer work. the rest follows in the New Year) Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 1 Ah, Will. Will you let her fauxfran=E7aiscourant=20 run (switch) ON & on &on quite freely? Or, will you, Will, in a temper-temper,=20 stick out yours, well shod, just one foot from the finish? Trip the marathon chased (chaste?)=20 2 Mon dieu! Ana-never-tole(d) another soul!=20 Simply Martial'd all the troops in France.=20 The Hunt! The Hunt!=20 Holman, dear, your quanta is too sable The detailed clarity lost in a fidgety. 3 Fortunate, until, out-corp-o-re-aled and SCAPED.=20 Painted a giddy longhaired angel-wing-ed goat.=20 Lounging on a tyger tyger skin beneath A PUBLIC SPIRITED realhot peach tree. 4=20 Boucher?=20 Diana ever after? Sheer abundance-in-capacity, all yours Match you, brother incongruity brother downtheroad nextme See you, cousin defiance altogether later. Later than you think. Raise you, sister spiteful Meeting my truly devoted under=20 a buriedbridge.=20 At seven. Synchronize the watches. Clocks. 5 Driftless shiftless=20 shifter shifts her tam, grave=20 et/aut semper percussis verbless & in debt.=20 It will never affect our heritage. 6 Delineated unbounded on all sides=20 shown hatched in black,=20 read red on plan or map annexed and signed=20 your signature one witness. Please. =20 as relative hereto=20 the heartofthematter. ALL and WHOLE with vacant entry as at this=20 &or mutually convenient date. Nuts. 7 RIDING THE MARCHES=20 defining boundaries The horse(y)-minded come to mind.=20 Not this for you, Virginia=20 Mind your heels. Forget those heels!=20 Run barefoot!=20 Emile Zola Rose Bud. Ne? 8 Boundary disputes again.=20 What if only signifies a sound=20 or fury? Nothing but a hill of beans. Garbanza. 9 Virginia from the fallout shelter-ed.=20 Yes, you. Read on. Told you once, and told you twice.=20 NOT CHAMOIS, and not a sham, moi.=20 Fire of circulation!=20 Read the gypsy's palm! 10 Clarity unpleasant?=20 A pleasant day for Claire or tea? A brilliant day for grouse!=20 And flees (fleas?) before the pause (clause? claws?) 11 Varnished, framed le grand tableaux=20 Un, deux, trois=20 count it short to SEVEN Pour amuser la galerie A muse, et pour la galerie. A muse, amuser, certainly. Never met a ranting drift e(xc)lusive as la mouche. 12 A place? That by position gives control of sea? Back to compasses again.=20 Have we really lost our way? 13 Translation, he avers, was literal. Is that it? The book wasn't written in a foreign language.=20 Well, barely. If you follow.=20 My drift, that is, drifts on 14 Restless blues=20 spiky shoes white hat to spite & fight or bite the turf. The Royal and Ancient Burgh Famous course, St Andrews! Suits Virginia to a tee Wee sleekit timorous beastie 15 Philippe de Champaigne bubbles!=20 Who knows? One, a fluted glass, The Unknown Man. Who knows? Two, Ex Voto,=20 and failed.=20 Two nuns at rest=20 on different chairs. 16 Who knows? Three, Rennie MacIntosh or G(ee)-plan. A chair is not a chair.=20 Chair and chair alike. Straightbacked, clean lines Black leather. &or chrome. Her chair is yours. For a'that.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 14:12:19 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Of late on the wink MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Aaron. I hope and prey that you have not..since your reading of Ron's gate keeping Blogg...contracted the dreaded Anxiety of Blinkfluence? Actually I think Ron is a cunning fox (he may be worried that he himself will go out of fashionor whatever...I share your reading experiences (I just mistyped in or with my Freudian fingers "dreading experiences!!"...I also enjoyed Eliot before eg I had even read The Odyssey .... I recall being rather panick stricken about all the things in Greek, Italian, and French and I'm just recently "tackling " The Cantos (armed with a glossary - but ultimately I intend to fling that aside!) I've just been enjoying Barbara Guest with no very exact idea of what she is "saying".... it is indeed the deep music of poetry that ultimately counts I feel. But I recall a conversation with Alan Loney (who is a poet here and has been an editor and printer) that at one stage people would send him writings claiming that they were Post Modern...(a problematic term as you indicate)..possibly to get "on his side " and he said to me: "But they werent" ( I paled inwardly..perhaps I too am not Post Modern!!!)...now he might have been right: eg to his understading of what was "original" or innovative or Post Modern or whatever the right term is: but of course nowadays, much as I admire Alan as a writer.....every editor or critic is (and has to be) constantly subject to evaluation and re-evaluation: I find it hard to write poetry that is not lineated (an example only of one aspect of course) but I write now more deliberately...that said I just relax, or try to: I cant artifically alter my style to "conform" to any thing (I'm not saying that that is what Ron wants - I'm sure he doesnt) but there is feeling I have anyway that I "should" be "innovative" or "postmodern" somewhow and that means a) a certain "distortion" of my "natural" flow (not neccesarily bad as it can open my poetry up to new forms without - hopefully - sacrificing my own uniqueness) b) at least I'm on the lookout, alert to posssible "wetnesses" (hard to see one's own work though) Perhaps Ron's entire production is in fact based on the Philosophy of The Wink? He's a cunning artificer! Maybe he stole The Wink from another poet? Can he Wink? Is in fact his Alphabet actually ...can it not be summated into one single Wink? (the poetic equivalent of Thevinem's Theorem in electricity!!!) Sorry to be flippant!! Well, not sorry, I AM enjoying Ron's Blogg though, as far as it goes, but I more or less ignored the part about Moxley ..her name isnt very promising! Cheers, Richard. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Belz" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 7:34 AM Subject: Of late on the wink > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > > Statues made of match sticks, > Crumble into one another, > My love winks, she does not bother, > She knows too much to argue or to judge. > > --Bob Dylan, "Love Minus Zero/ No Limit" > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > > Somewhat in response to Ron's recent post, I would like to point out that > winking and joking are different acts. > > A joke is something you tell someone to make them laugh. It can also be a > pun, or a burlesque, or purposely tripping over your own shoes. Jokes are > funny. > > A wink can be friendly, as John has pointed out, or sneaky/guileful, as > Arielle has pointed out, but there's nothing inherently funny about it. A > wink usually says, silently, "you and I know, even if others around us > don't." If I wink at someone at a party, for instance, they're going to > wonder what knowledge we have in common that the other partygoers don't. A > wink can also say, "It's cool, things are under control here," as in the > Bob Dylan quote above. A wink also can convey "I don't really mean what > i'm saying"; for instance, the Seinfeld episode where George has a twitch > in his eye that causes him to wink-- > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > [Yankee Stadium] > > WILHELM: George, have you seen Morgan? > > GEORGE: No. > > WILHELM: He's been coming in late all week. Is there something wrong? > > GEORGE: No, not that I know of. (winks) > > WILHELM: Really? Make sure he signs this. Oh, look George, if there's a > problem with Morgan you can tell me. > > GEORGE: Morgan? No. He's doing a great job. (winks) > > WILHELM: I understand. > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > I suppose a wink *after* a joke might be what Ron thinks of as "The > Postmodern Wink of Irony." But the problem with this phrase is that it > introduces a third concept, irony, and overlays it all with a damned > adjective, "postmodern." I guess irony might be *indicated* by a wink, but > they aren't the same thing. In any case, the phrase is still confusing, > and I'm beginning to think it's little more than a cliché. > > Arielle's post of Dec 10 proposed a concise explanation of what Ron > actually was relieved not to see in Moxley: "when a poet is using humor, > postmodern referencing, high/low culture intermixing, etc., for the sake of > AVOIDING a question, or trying to ENGAGE with the reader on that level, on > the 'aren't we so clever?' level, rather than the same humor or the same > pomo reference coming from a place of utter sincerity or trying to get to > something really honest." > > So, I don't think jokes or pop-culture references are objectionable *per > se*, even decontextualized and obscure--- [when I was 15, I read the Waste > Land without understanding 2/3 of the references, and I still listen to > Pound's Canto recordings without a notion of what the f* he's talking > about; and I recently read & laughed at Piers Ploughman, which assumes its > reader is familiar with its historical moment (and I wasn't), and what > about Dylan Thomas? It's just music] --- it is more a matter of the > author's willingness to engage her world, to say what's what, to refer to > stuff, and not to worry what people think about her. > > Also, I certainly can't worry about what people will "get" in seventy > years. That's outlandish. (1) Authors go in and out of fashion, in this > shifting "canon"; (2) I have enough trouble communicating to people > today. > > -Aaron > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 01:12:27 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Fwd: Die Young Archive Update Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" --- Original Message --- Date: 12/17/2002 From: "Daniel Sendecki" Subject: Die Young Archive Update Jesse, All copies of Die Young have been published to: http://www.sendecki.com/ahadada/dieyoung/index.shtml Also, I've posted Bob Harrison's "Amoeba Poems" at the same URL. How are things going? Hope all is well. Keep me updated! Warmest, Dan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:53:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Rathmann Subject: Re: "good"/"bad" poetry In-Reply-To: <00ad01c2a4fb$e7b2da80$23c628c3@overgrowngarden> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Lawrence, I was just trying to use a kind of lazy but neutral shorthand to refer to conventions that I think are prevalent. I do something similar when I want to speak of "speech-based autobiographical lyricism." Obviously these kinds of abbreviation aren't worth very much. Number me among those who prefer to look at individual cases, anomalous cases. As for the incomplete sentence... "Sentence" is apparently related to the Latin "sentire," meaning aware. What if there were the gist of a truth in this etymological kinship? Incomplete sentence = limited awareness? Or awareness without limits, boundless awareness? Perhaps a dog's awareness. "My bowl." "My bed." "Smell of piss in the shrubbery." I'm kidding. But. "Disjunction," "parataxis": using these techniques usually means writing in verbless phrases rather than sentences. You can see the origin of the phrase-based style in the modernists. But compare Pound with Susan Howe: These are the stones of foundation J. A.'s reply to the Governor Impeachment of Oliver These stones we built on I don't receive a shilling a month, wrote Mr Adams to Abigail in seventeen 74 June 7th. approve of committee from the several colonies Bowdoin, Cushing, Sam Adams, John A. and Paine (Robert) 'mope, I muse, I ruminate' le personnel manque we have not men for the times Cut the overhead my dear wife and keep yr/ eye on the dairy Strange fear of sleep am bafflement gone Bat winged dim dawn herthe midmost wide Pound wants to say "this is," "this is," "this is" -- "THESE are the STONES of FOUNDATION" -- but then he gets things moving again with a quick action verb: "cut the overhead." Howe is obviously more static, although she too can write beautiful sentences, as we all know. I get the feeling -- which may be totally wrong -- that younger poets in this tradition are moving back in the direction of, shall we say, fullness of grammar. Opening at random Catherine Wagner's book Miss America, I read: Is there a Kenmore, Penny Kenmore for ex Or maybe it means "extremely canny" I wrote a joke postcard first time in New York Age 16 -- "I've been discovered As Pretty Plus model for Sears Catalog" (Ken more = more canny?) I think there's something intrinsically more canny about complete rather than incomplete -- something good takes place in the head when subject and verb are joined. Andy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 22:14:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: "good"/"bad" poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 'GOOD''BAD' Poetry--what a static opposition. A poem is good as you find it so--and may be bad in five years, or by tomorrow. Is this a list of would-be poets, or rather,of must-be anthologists? I have doted on poems I blush to recall. (some, by me.) I'm sorry, mates, but it's an inconstant world. "Bright star, would I were steadfast as thou art". Ah, but "I" am not. Bad poetry is unreadable, so how can one know it is bad? I spent an evening with John Ashbery reading aloud the works of William McGonagal, I think he was named. Yes, he wrote badly, but it was so bad it was good. David -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence Upton To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Monday, December 16, 2002 4:19 AM Subject: Re: "good"/"bad" poetry >I think I was with you much of the way on this, Andrew; and then, having >said we need to be concrete by referring to particulars (particular works, >you said), you became general with _the incomplete sentence, the >non-sequitur, the stray quotation -- in short, the "experimental" style_ > >I am unclear what the "present incarnation" is in connection with >incomplete sentences. I was reading some Lee Harwood recently, and I dont >think that's what you mean, but he's still writing. Incomplete sentences >have been around a long time and often they are no more incomplete than >sentences in the spoken language > >The non-sequitur? Disjunction, you mean? No? Anyway,old as the built-on >hills Like the previous, these are the mechanics rather than the style >itself. > >Stray quotation? Would that be a quotation the relevance of which you do >not understand? Otherwise, who decides it is stray? > >Concrete references would have helped comprehension, as you indicate. > >"Experimental" is a useless term, meaningless; and putting it in quotes >won't help that. Or whom are you quoting? > >A style which does not experiment is likely to be a dead style though it may >be a fertile basis for someone who wishes to say "This is good... this >isn't" (excluding the rather careful Jeffrey made) > >All styles, all approaches, lead to bad writing. Look at what was written >at the time at any time and the bulk of it is shit; and some of it is good, >but most of that is missed at the time by the arbiters of good and bad often >*because they use absolute terms arrived at by undisclosed judgements > > >L > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Andrew Rathmann" >To: >Sent: 16 December 2002 07:45 >Subject: Re: "good"/"bad" poetry > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 01:11:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Today's News MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Today's News ... the Daniel F. Beatty, Washington, N.J., U.S.A. Golden Tongue 61-key 14-stop pump organ, gold labeling on black above the keyboard, was found between 3rd and 4th Avenue on a Dean Street sidewalk, trimmings and back removed and leaning against the main framework, around 4:30 the afternoon of Thursday, December 19th, 2002, and brought to the corner of Dean Street and 5th Avenue, at 432, around 5:40 in the evening of the same day, by Azure Carter, Alan Sondheim, and Mark Esper, where Gary Wiebke was discovered coming into the same establishment, and his help solicited, to the effect that Azure Carter carried the properly-cut Victorian trimmings to the third floor, while Gary Wiebke and Mark Esper carried the 125-kilo instrument, dating from late 1878 or early 1879, judging by the serial number, up two flights of stairs and into Azure Carter's and Alan Sondheim's apartment, while Azure Carter and Alan Sondheim cleared a passage in order to eventually move and re-assemble the walnut, ivory- and ebony-keyed small parlor organ, whose bellows and suction box were still intact, by replacing the trimmings and reattaching the back, removing, however, the outdated electric motor, preferring instead to utilize the original and still-functioning pedals to good effect, as the marvelous sonority of Forte, Coupled, Viola, and Sub-Bass floated over their space, the instrument clearly played properly and for the first time in a century ... === ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 22:17:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: "good"/"bad" poetry In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >I think there's something intrinsically more >canny about complete rather than incomplete -- something good takes place >in the head when subject and verb are joined. > >Andy But suppose one is trying to present the landscape rather than moralize about it. Both are at times ok to do, but they may require different techne. Mark ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 19:59:25 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: "good"/"bad" poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Did you see my satiriacal "I met..." and it was about my "picture" of John Ashbery and Robert Kelly, I'm wondering how close I got to the reality! What Isaid will be "buried" somewhere on the archives so dont worry about it....your a very different 9thta s the key not good or bad but differnet and why and what appeals etc) poet to John Ashbery who I "discovered" when I was "getting back into poetry" in about 1989 I found "House Boat" days (the first modern poet I had read with any atention since I read Eliot (I hadnt heard of WCW or Olson or any one else except Pound and cmmings (... I thought Pound and Eliot were British) I was about 44 ... at first I couldnt make head nor tail of it - in fact i read some of it aloud to a freind I had then and we laughed a lot: it seemed very funny (as quite a lot of Ashbery still does) but something about Ashbery's work fascinates me still (altough I dont read him just at the moment) and I think for me he is - of the non- Lang poets etc he is something special (as was O'Hara ) of course there are other extraordinary poets but he has a special significance...his poetry wont become "bad" he seems almost incapable of writing poorly: however I dont know how I can justify that ..... but I think that many of the Langpos and their "offshoots" or whatever are exatrordinary...in NZ we have some ingenious poets: but if US Political leaders leave a lot to be desired your art and lit scene is extarordinarily rich..going back to where?..Dickinson and Whitman etc (unfortuately these are in Bloom's canon which is a bit sad) ... If I'm more fiscal ext year I want to acquire more of the new writing and some of such as yourself (I already got Nick Piombino's book and I have Susan Howe, some of Bernstein, Silliman, Heijinian, Guest (and I have to confess I have a mass of stuff that I could not obtain cheaply or reasonably or easily so I photocopied a lot of books entire) however I bought as many as I could afford ... I obtained two books by Kelly, I have Zukofsky and so on. I also like Berryman. But there are many many good poets nowadays throughout the world: possibly more than ever. I think we all know somewhow who are good (although here even poets who like what I do disagree on the merits of poets we both like else) so on its problematic this "good" and "bad" McGonnagel....I suppose it depends on what people want from poetry. Compare it to music: I always listen to the Concert Programme (its the only radio or TV station (apart from one other) here that doesnt bombard me with endless advertising and other drivel called "programmes" and all else otherwise is very weak (I feel!) and my mother might object to some (contemporary music) we were hearing ( that might be a bit strange or dissonant etc) by saying that "I dont like this"... but I would sometimes say..."well, so far, nor do, I but I cant tell what its about or whether it interests me until I've listened to it right through" (poor old Mum she had to put up with me at home here until 1998 whe she died) and like poetry we often say "good" or bad at one listening (reading) ...to get the most from a poem is often hard work: it can be, and that hard work can be rewarding -not always - but sufficiently. Cheers, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "dcmb" To: Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 7:14 PM Subject: Re: "good"/"bad" poetry > 'GOOD''BAD' Poetry--what a static opposition. A poem is good as you find it > so--and may be bad in five years, or by tomorrow. Is this a list of would-be > poets, or rather,of must-be anthologists? > I have doted on poems I blush to recall. (some, by me.) > I'm sorry, mates, but it's an inconstant world. "Bright star, would I were > steadfast as thou art". Ah, but "I" am not. Bad poetry is unreadable, so > how can one know it is bad? I spent an evening with John Ashbery reading > aloud the works of William McGonagal, I think he was named. Yes, he wrote > badly, but it was so bad it was good. David > -----Original Message----- > From: Lawrence Upton > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Monday, December 16, 2002 4:19 AM > Subject: Re: "good"/"bad" poetry > > > >I think I was with you much of the way on this, Andrew; and then, having > >said we need to be concrete by referring to particulars (particular works, > >you said), you became general with _the incomplete sentence, the > >non-sequitur, the stray quotation -- in short, the "experimental" style_ > > > >I am unclear what the "present incarnation" is in connection with > >incomplete sentences. I was reading some Lee Harwood recently, and I dont > >think that's what you mean, but he's still writing. Incomplete sentences > >have been around a long time and often they are no more incomplete than > >sentences in the spoken language > > > >The non-sequitur? Disjunction, you mean? No? Anyway,old as the built-on > >hills Like the previous, these are the mechanics rather than the style > >itself. > > > >Stray quotation? Would that be a quotation the relevance of which you do > >not understand? Otherwise, who decides it is stray? > > > >Concrete references would have helped comprehension, as you indicate. > > > >"Experimental" is a useless term, meaningless; and putting it in quotes > >won't help that. Or whom are you quoting? > > > >A style which does not experiment is likely to be a dead style though it > may > >be a fertile basis for someone who wishes to say "This is good... this > >isn't" (excluding the rather careful Jeffrey made) > > > >All styles, all approaches, lead to bad writing. Look at what was written > >at the time at any time and the bulk of it is shit; and some of it is good, > >but most of that is missed at the time by the arbiters of good and bad > often > >*because they use absolute terms arrived at by undisclosed judgements > > > > > >L > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Andrew Rathmann" > >To: > >Sent: 16 December 2002 07:45 > >Subject: Re: "good"/"bad" poetry > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 03:31:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: PENULTIMATE DYNAMIC INTERPLAY #0042 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CELIA CURTIS PENULTIMATE DYNAMIC INTERPLAY #0042 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TURBAN => KHAKI => TO THE HIPPY => HYBRID => FOR THE CAVERN => FREQUENT => SUPPOSE => HIM FEVER => FOAM => WAS ENTHUSIASM => EVENT => FORMED IN BUDDY => SPOUSE => WHICH AND WHEELED --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.427 / Virus Database: 240 - Release Date: 12/6/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 03:34:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: PENULTIMATE DYNAMIC INTERPLAY #0043 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CELIA CURTIS PENULTIMATE DYNAMIC INTERPLAY #0043 [excerpt] www.wired-paris-review.com CRESTS => HERALDRY => AND CARRIED HER THEIR GLORIOUS => HOPES => WERE ZETES AND CALAIS CONVERTED INTO PLANT => THE TO THE PURE => WHITER => TAXPAYER OF THE THE QUALIFY|QUANTITIES => UNDER THE DIFFICULTIES => OF THE SIRDAR OMDURMAN ON CONTINUING HIS IN ECHELON HAD HALTED AND DEPLOYED THE PILGRIM => PROTEST => ISLAND BUT WHEN LATONA ARRIVED THERE JUPITER FASTENED IT WITH THE ROBES AND CAPTIVE => PARTS OF THE GRINDER => OF THE GODDESSES WERE WOVEN BY BLIGHTER => ODD => FUSILLADE THE ARRIVAL => CARGO => WEAKENED AND PRESENTLY CEASED AT BLOODY => BLEEDING => HOW THE WHICH ARIADNE WORE HIS TEMPLES WITH LEAKY => OIL => TO THE AND RABBLE => REALIZE => TO HECTOR THREW HIS SPEAR WHICH STRUCK THE COME TO THE INHERITANCE PATCH => PECK => DRESS => ELEGANCE => PROSTRATE THE WAS JUNO VENUS AND MINERVA CLAIMED THE ORANGE => JUPITER NOT TROUBLES => WHOSE => AT A ON THE BROADWOOD CART => COSTUME => ON STRAWBERRY => STUCK => AND A OF FURNITURE => POLITE => QUICKLY => SLOWLY => THAT OF THE ARCH => AREA => BUT IT IS SADDLE => SOCCER => FOLLOWED THE SKINS CREPT ON THE HEALTH => HONESTY => AND THE JOINTS OF TORMENT => LOWED AFTER THE INCARCERATION => => OF NUMA THE FEAST => FEATHER => PINED AND WAS INTO FELL AND THE TROJANS FLED IN THEIR SENEGALESE TO STRENGTHEN THE ENTRENCHMENTS AND BUSILY COMUS WELLS HAD BEEN OCCUPIED BY THEM WITHOUT WITCHCRAFT => BREW => ALL THE BEWITCHED => CRIME => IN WARDEN|METERS => VALUE => THE REPULSIVE => BRIGADES WHICH WERE SHALL => CANT => GET => MOVING HOUSEMAN => AND AND RECITAL => PHILEMON GARMENTS => BAUCIS LANCASHIRE => LAND => IN QUICKLY => SLOWLY => AND SHALL => CANT => GET => A AND CARDED IT IT STORM => STUDENTS => AS MOTHERINLAW => AND AS OR TWIRLED THEY SLEW OF THE CATTLE LOVE => TO REPLENISHED => WHISKEY|BELLY => FOR THE EXTENT => EXTREME => CHICKEN => COOK => LOUIS => PRINCESS => WHEN THE IN THEIR SHIRTS WITH AS OF SUCK => TITS => AND WAS CHAINED UP THE SOMETHING => WAS OUT AND SNATCH => ALL THE THE ENFORCEMENT OF THIS ATTITUDE => DOORS => A SUFFERING AND INTENSE ANTIGONE WANE => THE DIFFRACTION => OF EXPEDIENT => INSIGHT => QUIESCENT => TRAGEDIES OF THE GRECIAN GAUZE => OR ACORNS UNDER THE SHAKEN SOAK => YOU SEE YONDER A ON THE SWEPT BY THE MUSKETRY OF THE DEFENDERS ALL TO THIS IF LOVELINESS => LOVER => THE NOT AT => BRETHREN AS THEY APPROACHED THE THEY MENTALITY => MERIT => SURPRISE => EURYDICE TREMBLED ON HIS SCOPE => BELIEF => ACIS AND GALATEA AND MY QUALIFY|QUANTITIES => EXCLUDED => WAS TO CHIDE THE GODS TIPS => TRAY|WAITS => HAD ROBBED ME OF THIS IT WAS SEXUAL => SHOPPER => AT A OF YARDS TO THE LEADS => MARRIED => WHAT HE SUNG IN HIS IMMORTAL STRAIN STORIES AFTER SALUTATIONS HE GODDESS ENTREAT YOUR HORSES HEADS AND RETIRE FROM THE ENCLOSURE LEAVING HIS STRAWBERRY => STUCK => ENTANGLED YOURSELF CRAVING => HYSTERIA => IS PASSING OUT OF THE GATES AND WE SANCTION => OF THE EXPEDITION DESTRUCTIVE => THE DIABETIC => RESEMBLED TRIUMPHAL GLIDE => PAIRS => THE OF EXPEDIENT => INSIGHT => MILES INTO FILLING THE CRETINOUS => MAHON GUNS AND APPREHEND => OPPRESSION => OF THE LOUIS => PRINCESS => CRACKLING FUSILLADE SUPERFICIAL => TIME => IT WAS LUMPS => WORMS => CLOVER => COME => THE ENEMY SLEEK => FOR THE RIDDEN => SAINT => COMPARTMENTS => AEETES ON REACHING THE MENTALITY => MERIT => ANIMAL => HERD => OF HIS SHE EXHIBITS THE MATRONLY MIDST => WHICH DISTINGUISHES JUNO AND CERES WIRELESS|POLOS => TWIRLING IT MISERY => NINTH => AS A NECESSITY => HIS AUGER THE HOWLING SPARKS AND CINDERS OF HIS TO BE RABBLE => REALIZE => INTO BROOMMANIPULATEKNOBD => WHICH SHED => SHORTBREAD => THAT NO LONG-CHORAL => VALUE => COULD DISLODGE THEM AND LEWIS LIFTING HER TO PLANETS => EXCLAIMED MAY THEY DEAREST => BELOVED => THAT POOL DICTATED PUBLIC => SLABS => BLOCK => DINGY => THAT SHE WOULD HIS COMPANIONS AND --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.427 / Virus Database: 240 - Release Date: 12/6/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 08:48:27 -0500 Reply-To: men2@columbia.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss Subject: Shameless Commercialism Comments: To: Martha L Deed , webartery@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A very simple web site for the careds I desigbn and sometimes sell is at www.sporkworld.org/cards Note that this is not my web design, but rather Photoshop's automatic slide show design. Some of these images were taken for an as yet incomplete web art project, and I feel weird selling them...there seems to be a difference between art and e-commerce and I'm crossing the line! yeeks! Millie P.S. order lots of cards :-) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 08:49:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Wheeler Subject: Sublets In-Reply-To: <200212182104.18oSRa2dW3NZFjX0@robin> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >-----Original Message----- >From: joshua auerbach [mailto:josh.auerbach@sympatico.ca] >Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 6:27 PM >To: devineni@rattapallax.com >Subject: lookiing for a place in NY > >Hey Ram, > > >Eleni and I are planning to go to New York for two months, arriving >sometime between Jan. 19 and Feb. 1. I'm writing in the hopes that you >may know someone who is renting an apartment for this period, or who >would like someone to take care of theirs while away. Since we're >bringing our small dog (approx. 15 pounds), Sparks, we'd like to be in a >relatively quiet neighborhood, so we were thinking perhaps Brooklyn >Heights or somewhere near there. Manhattan is ok if we can find a quiet >corner. Ideally the apartment would be two bedrooms or larger (one >bedroom and two small offices would be perfect). If anyone has >suggestions on apartment agencies that are ok that'd also be helpful. > >Joshua Auerbach > >ph/fax 514 279 8560 > >------------------------------ And if anyone has a place in NYC to sublet February 15 through April 15, would they give me a holler? Susan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:04:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Kuszai" Subject: FACTORY SCHOOL digital audio archive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Having filled the 1 gigabyte of storage allotted for the Factory School digital audio archive, it's time to think about what to remove as I'd like to cycle new audio files in over next few weeks. Eventually, all of the files will be available somewhere, but for now I need some feedback as to what to keep on-line and what to move temporarily off-line until arrangements can be made. Since I know that folks from more than twenty countries regularly visit the archive, I'm worried about disruptions in service. While site reports allow me to know which are the most popular files (top 30 by month), please let me know (back-channel, thanks) which files you currently use or need for teaching purposes. I know from these reports which files get used the most, so another way to 'vote' would be to click on your favorite poet reading her/his work. But I am concerned about files that may not appear on the popularity radar. Thanks for your help. http://www.factoryschool.org J. Kuszai Also, would Eric Baus, Jeff Davis, Mike Boughn and Laura Wright please drop me a note privately? These folks, and anyone else who makes a donation of tapes, will receive the entire archive on 2 disks-- about 600 files. -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:14:02 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: petition: Campaign for Peace and Democracy Comments: To: carolroos@earthlink.net, lbn@batnet.com, laurelreiner@aol.com, reiner@cats.ucsc.edu, gfcivil@stkate.edu, manowak@stkate.edu, edcohen@rci.rutgers.edu, kball@ualberta.edu, funkhouser@tesla.njit.edu, deeplistening@yahoogroups.com, francobe@aol.com, mbosch@capecod.net, susanlannen@hotmail.com, srfcosta@yahoo.com, bgscs@netzero.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > Dear Friend, >> Please join Barbara Ehrenreich, Adolph Reed, Michael Albert, Rabbi >Michael Lerner, Naomi Weisstein, Edward Said, Stephen Shalom, Katha Pollitt, >John Leonard, Sue Leonard, James Weinstein, Daniel Ellsberg, Cornel West, >Matthew Rothschild, Ros Petchesky, Howard Zinn and Robin D.G. Kelley >in signing this anti-war statement from the Campaign for Peace and >Democracy (See below for the list of initial signers and for how to >add your name.) > > Thank you, >> Joanne Landy, Thomas Harrison, Jennifer Scarlott, Co-Directors, CPD >> >> Please forward this statement and circulate it widely. >> >> WE OPPOSE BOTH SADDAM HUSSEIN AND THE U.S. WAR ON IRAQ: >> A CALL FOR A NEW, DEMOCRATIC U.S. FOREIGN POLICY >> >> We oppose the impending U.S.-led war on Iraq, which threatens to inflict vast suffering and destruction, while exacerbating rather than resolving threats toregional and global peace. Saddam Hussein is a tyrant who should be removed from power, both for the good of the Iraqi people and for the security of neighboring countries. However, it is up to the Iraqi people themselves to oust Saddam Hussein, dismantle his police state regime, and democratize their country. People in the United States can be of immense help in this effort--not by supporting military intervention, but by building a strong peace movement and working to ensure that our government pursues a consistently democratic and just foreign policy. We do not believe that the goal of the approaching war against Iraq is to bring democracy to the Iraqis, nor that it will produce this result. Instead, the Bush Administration=92s aim is to expand and solidify U.S. predominance in the Middle East, at the cost of tens of thousands of civilian lives if necessary. This war is about U.S. political, military and economic power, about seizing control of oilfields and about strengthening the United States as the enforcer of an inhumane global status quo. That is why we are opposed to war against Iraq, whether waged unilaterally by Washington or by the UN Security Council, unaccountable to the UN General Assembly and bullied and bribed into endorsing the war. >The U.S. military may have the ability to destroy Saddam Hussein, >but the United States cannot promote democracy in the Muslim world >and peace in the >Middle East, nor can it deal with the threat posed to all of us by terrorist >networks such as Al Qaeda, and by weapons of mass destruction, by pursuing its >current policies. Indeed, the U.S. could address these problems only by doing >the opposite of what it is doing today -- that is, by: > > -Renouncing the use of military intervention to extend and consolidate >U.S.imperial power, and withdrawing U.S. troops from the Middle East. > >-Ending its support for corrupt and authoritarian regimes, e.g. Saudi Arabia, the Gulf states and Egypt. >-Opposing, and ending U.S. complicity in, all forms of terrorism >worldwide --not just by Al Qaeda, Palestinian suicide bombers and >Chechen hostage takers, but also by Colombian paramilitaries, the >Israeli military in the Occupied Territories and Russian >counterinsurgency forces in Chechnya. > >-Ending the cruel sanctions on Iraq, which inflict massive harm on the >civilian population. > >-Supporting the right of national self-determination for all peoples >in the Middle East, including the Kurds, Palestinians and Israeli >Jews. Ending one-sided support for Israel in the Palestinian-Israeli >conflict. > >-Taking unilateral steps toward renouncing weapons of mass destruction, >including nuclear weapons, and vigorously promoting international >disarmament treaties. > >-Abandoning IMF/World Bank economic policies that bring mass misery >to people in large parts of the world. Initiating a major foreign >aid program directed at popular rather than corporate needs. > >A U.S. government that carried out these policies would be in a >position to honestly and consistently foster democracy in the Middle >East and elsewhere. It could encourage democratic forces (not >unrepresentative cliques, but genuinely popular parties and >movements) in Iraq, Iran and Syria, as well as Egypt, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States and Turkey. Some of these forces exist today, others have yet to arise, but all would flower if nurtured by a new U.S. foreign policy. >These initiatives, taken together, would constitute a truly >democratic foreign policy. Only such a policy could begin to reverse >the mistrust and outright hatred felt by so much of the world=92s >population toward the U.S. At the same time, it would weaken the >power of dictatorships and the appeal of terrorism and reactionary >religious fundamentalism. Though nothing the United States >can do would decisively undermine these elements right away, over time a new U.S foreign policy would drastically undercut their power and influence. >The Administration's frantic and flagrantly dishonest efforts to portray Saddam Hussein as an imminent military threat to people in this country and to the inhabitants of other Middle Eastern countries lack credibility. Saddam Hussein is a killer and serial aggressor who would doubtless like nothing better than to wreak vengeance on the U.S. and to dominate the Gulf Region. But there is no reason to believe he is suicidal or insane. Considerable evidence suggests that Saddam Hussein is much weaker militarily than he was before the Gulf War and that he is still some distance from being able to manufacture nuclear weapons. >But most important, unlike Al Qaeda, he has a state and a position >of power to protect; he knows that any Iraqi act of aggression now >against the U.S. or his neighbors would bring about his total >destruction. As even CIA Director George Tenet has pointed out, it >is precisely the certainty of a war to the finish >against his regime that would provide Saddam Hussein with the >incentive he now lacks to use whatever weapons he has against the >U.S. and its allies. > > >Weapons of mass destruction endanger us all and must be eliminated. >But a war against Iraq is not the answer. War threatens massive harm >to Iraqi civilians, will add to the ranks of terrorists throughout >the Muslim world, and will encourage international bullies to pursue >further acts of aggression. Everyone >is legitimately concerned about terrorism; however, the path to >genuine security involves promoting democracy, social justice and >respect for the right of self-determination, along with disarmament, >weapons-free-zones, and >inspections. Of all the countries in the world, the United States >possesses by far the most powerful arsenal of weapons of mass >destruction. If the U.S. were to initiate a democratic foreign >policy and take serious steps toward disarmament, it would be able >to encourage global disarmament as well as regional demilitarization >in the Middle East. > > >The Bush Administration has used the alleged Iraqi military danger >to justify an alarming new doctrine of preemptive war. In the >National Security Strategy,publicly released on September 20, 2002, >the Bush Administration asserted that the U.S. has the right to >attack any country that might be a potential threat, not merely in >response to an act of military aggression. Much of the world sees >this doctrine for what it is: the proclamation of an undisguised >U.S. global imperium. > > > > Ordinary Iraqis, and people everywhere, need to know that there >is another America, made up of those who both recognize the urgent >need for democratic change in the Middle East and reject our >government's militaristic and imperial foreign policy. By signing >this statement we declare our intention to work for a new democratic >U.S. foreign policy. That means helping to rein in the war-makers >and building the most powerful antiwar movement possible, and at the >same time forging links of solidarity and concrete support for >democratic forces in Iraq and throughout the Middle East. > > >We refuse to accept the inevitability of war on Iraq despite the >enormous military juggernaut that has been put in place, and we declare our >ment to work with others in this country and abroad to avert it. And if war >shouldstart, we will do all in our power to end it immediately. > > >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >-= >> - - - >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >> _x__Yes, please add my name to the Campaign for Peace and Democracy >statem= >> ent =93We >> Oppose Both Saddam Hussein And The U.S. War On Iraq: A Call For A New, >> Democratic U.S. Foreign Policy.=94 You may use my name when the >statement is published. > > > > ___I am sending a tax-deductible donation of $________to help >disseminate and publish the statement in publications such as The >Nation, Z Magazine, >The Progressive, The New York Review of Books, In These Times and, if we >raise sufficient funds, The New York Times. I am sending my gift ____by mail >____on line (see below). > > >TO ASSIST US IN ORGANIZING THE LIST OF SIGNERS, PLEASE GIVE US YOUR >INFORMATION IN THIS ORDER AND FORMAT: > > >> First Line: Last name, comma, first name and middle name or initial if >> applicable [e.g., Doe, Jane Q.] >> Second Line: Organizational/ institutional affiliation or city (for >> identification only) (pls be brief) >> Third Line: E-mail address >> Fourth Line: Telephone and amount of donation >> Fifth Line: Street address >> Only name and affiliation or city will be made public. Damon, Maria University of Minnesota damon001@umn.edu 612 825-8132 (can't give a donation at this time, i'm on sabbatical living on 1/2 pay) 3138 girard ave s #3 mpls mn 55408 > > >> PLEASE INSERT INFORMATION HERE OR AT THE END OF THE MESSAGE >> To sign on, please FORWARD this message to cpd@igc.org adding in the >check marks and additional requested information > > >Donations are tax-deductible. Make checks payable to Campaign for Peace >and Democracy or donate on line by setting up an account at www.paypal.com. >If giving through PayPal, your payment should be directed to cpd@igc.org >Mail to: Campaign for Peace and Democracy, POB 630245, Bronx, NY 10463 > > >> NOTE: We won't change the statement's wording without consulting the >signers, except that if full-scale war breaks out we will edit the text >accordingly--e.g by removing adjectives such as "impending" and >"approaching" to describe thewar. > > >A two-page ad with the names listed below will appear in the issue >of The Nation being mailed out on December 18 (cover date 1/6/03). >The list of signers will be updated periodically on the ZNet site >www.zmag.org --check it out! > > >> List of signers in formation. Affiliations for identification only >> Michael Albert, ZNet/Z Magazine >> Stanley Aronowitz, Professional Staff Congress, AFT, NYC >> Rosalyn Baxandall, SUNY at Old Westbury >> Mel Bienenfeld, NYC >> Richard J. Brown, MD- Physicians for a National Health Program-NY >> C. Carr, Village Voice >> Ram=F3n Castellblanch, SF State Univ >> Margaret W. Crane, The Write Formula >> Richard Deats, Fellowship magazine >> Melinda Downey, New Politics >> Laura Lee Downs, Ecole des Hautes Etudes en Sciences Sociales >> Karen Durbin, writer >> Barbara Ehrenreich, writer >> Daniel Ellsberg >> Carlos R. Espinosa, architect >> Sam Farber, Brooklyn Coll, CUNY >> John Feffer, writer >> Barry Finger, New Paltz NY >> Thomas Harrison, Campaign for Peace and Democracy >> Doug Henwood, Left Business Observer >> Judith Hempfling >> William F., Henning, Jr., CWA Local 1180 >> Michael Hirsch, New Politics >> Marianne Jackson, Rescue Health Care NY >> Julius and Phyllis Jacobson, New Politics >> Robin D.G. Kelley, NYU >> Joanne Landy, Campaign for Peace and Democracy >> Jesse Lemisch, John Jay Coll of Criminal Justice, CUNY >> John Leonard >> Sue Leonard >> Rabbi Michael Lerner, TIKKUN Magazine >> Nelson Lichtenstein, UC Santa Barbara >> Martha Livingston, SUNY Coll at Old Westbury >> Betty Reid Mandell, Bridgewater State Coll >> Marvin Mandell, Curry Coll >> Selma Marks, NYC >> David McReynolds, War Resisters League >> Carol Miller, Public Health Activist >> John M. Miller, War Resisters League > > Ros Petchesky, WEDO (Women's Environment & Development Organization) >> Katha Pollitt, The Nation >> Omar Qureshi >> Adolph Reed, Jr., New School Univ >> Sonia Jaffe Robbins, Network of East-West Women >> Leonard Rodberg, Queens Coll >> Matthew Rothschild, The Progressive >> Edward Said, Columbia Univ >> Charles Scarlott, Tucson AZ >> Jennifer Scarlott, Campaign for Peace and Democracy > > Stephen R. Shalom, William Paterson Univ >> Ann Snitow, Network of East-West Women >> Sid and Sandy Socolar, NYC >> Alan Sokal, New York University >> Bernard Tuchman, NYC >> Judith Podore Ward, NYC >> Lois Weiner, New Jersey City Univ >> James Weinstein, founding editor, In These Times >> Naomi Weisstein, SUNY Buffalo >> Cornel West, Princeton Univ >> Reginald Wilson, American Council on Education >> Arnold Jacob Wolf, Rabbi Emeritus, K.A.M. Isaiah Israel Congregation, >Chi= >> cago >> Kent Worcester, Marymount Manhattan College >> Howard Zinn, historian >> >> please forward please forward please forward please forward >please= >> >> forward >> >> >> > -- -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:16:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Keith Tuma Subject: Call for Papers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" http://www.users.muohio.edu/goodmaek/daap Call for Papers Marjorie Cook Poetry Festival & Conference September 18-21, 2003 Miami University, Oxford, Ohio In conjunction with the Marjorie Cook Poetry Festival of readings by nationally prominent African American poets, Miami University's creative writing program will host a conference on "Diversity in African American Poetry." Plenary address by: Lorenzo Thomas Scheduled readers/speakers include: Elizabeth Alexander Wanda Coleman Terrance Hayes Nathaniel Mackey Tracie Morris Harryette Mullen Mendi Obadike-Lewis Claudia Rankine James Richardson Sonia Sanchez Reginald Shepherd Evie Shockley Timothy Seibles Lorenzo Thomas Natasha Trethewey Quincy Troupe Crystal Williams Tyrone Williams In a recent panel discussion regarding "What's African-American about African-American Poetry," poet-scholar Harryette Mullen warned: "In our anxiety to embody or represent authentic black identity, we may impoverish our cultural heritage and simplify the complexity of our historical experience. As poets and as people of African descent, we are in danger of only performing blackness, rather than exploring the infinite permutations of our lived experience and creative imagination as black people." Surveying the flourishing poetic landscape, we conclude that many American poets of African descent have negotiated such dangers successfully. All of the most visible schools of contemporary poetic practice include distinguished African American poets. There are also many successful African American poets whose work does not fit easily within any of the categories by which American poetry has been sorted by critics and publicists. Our conference seeks to explore the complex variety of experiences, expressions, experiments, and influences represented in "African American poetry" and thus prevent this overarching category from obscuring the stylistic diversity of individual artists or imposing an identity politics upon those who may prefer to define their writing according to other criteria. Papers and panels that will help us foster an appreciation of diversity in African American poetry are welcome. Planned topics for roundtable discussion by invited poets and scholars include: African American Performance Poetry and the Beat Legacy Experimentalism in African American Poetry Formalism in African American Poetry Uses of Narrative in African American Poetry We welcome papers and panel proposals on specific schools and movements, genres and forms, artistic influences, theoretical approaches, individual African American poets, and related topics including but not limited to: the Black Arts movement the role of anthologies in defining an African American poetry the influence of jazz, blues, funk, rap, hip-hop, and other musical genres canonization/marginalization/recovery the long African American poem what's African about American poetry? "double consciousness" and lyric identity ideolectical poetry hypertextual poetry Several panel sessions will be devoted to readings by younger well-published African American poets. An evening open mike period will be scheduled. Please submit 15-minute papers, 200-word abstracts, or 3-to-4-presenter panel proposals by Tuesday, April 1, 2003 to: Andrew Osborn DAAP Department of English 356 Bachelor Hall Miami University Oxford, OH 45056 osbornal@muohio.edu Electronic submission strongly encouraged. Please include the acryonym "DAAP" in your subject line. When convenient, include submitted text in the body of your message; any attachments should be in rich text format. For a printable registration form and information regarding accommodations and travel, please visit our webpage at: http://www.users.muohio.edu/goodmaek/daap ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 15:03:03 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Platt CATALOGONY 11. TOMATOES AS BIG AS GRAPEFRUITS shades of green, blue and white. Durable easy to steel rack has sturdy, no-tip informative guide far space, or mounts on the wall. White molded floral pattern, stands 23" tall, to a compact RISKY SHORTCUT among healthy [inexpensive, pleasant, practical!] movement. All in sets of 4. door. Constructed of durable white tubular metal. tube construction. Expands from 25" to 45". Measures when company comes. 18" W x 15" L. ORDINARY HOUSEHOLD and assembles in minutes. Opens to the difference let some-] book wheel casters in white. three-section perior interior color and texture. Early ma- nated by this world of light, color and softened con- plated husks. White poly/vinyl con-BECOMES ENMESHED 12. DUCKIE FAUCET HEAD foam pad and decorator green-and-syndrome --- pleasingly fresh fragrance. costs only clean in a flash! refill mop-Flounced voice. Just can't touch its foot and the fun from it ton. Features panorama free focus has a clear lid top and comes with removable inner is made of FANTASIES, PLUS THE [it but it is harmless] clips. White heavy-duty plastic batteries (not included). Bottle 9 1/2" L. important stay warm paralysis SIMPLE-TO-MAKE will enjoy reassembling the puzzle to read your mes- ically mated with its archrival...then they [Fast about black velvety background and glass FABULOUS birth/death dates --- please specify. EASY-TO-LEARN ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 10:03:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Baraka redux MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here's one prophet who's honored in his hometown-- from this ayem's NYT December 19, 2002 Criticized Poet Is Named Laureate of Newark Schools By ANDREW JACOBS NEWARK, Dec. 18 — In an act of defiance aimed at the state's political establishment, the school board here has anointed Amiri Baraka the district's poet laureate at a time the state is trying to take the same designation away from him. The unanimous vote by the nine-member advisory board comes as Mr. Baraka, the poet laureate of New Jersey, is under fire for a poem he wrote last year suggesting that Israel had advance knowledge of the plot to attack the World Trade Center. A longtime Newark resident who was pivotal in the Black Arts Movement of the 1960's, Mr. Baraka has ignored calls from Gov. James E. McGreevey and others that he resign the post, which pays a stipend of $10,000. The governor does not have the power to remove the laureate mantle, but legislative leaders in Trenton said they had enough votes to dissolve the post entirely when they meet after the New Year. If that should fail, there are more than a half-dozen other bills meant to strip Mr. Baraka of the two-year position, which he has held since August. The school board's decision, made during a sparsely attended meeting late last month and reported today by The Star-Ledger of Newark, quickly reignited passions that were only just beginning to subside. "What Amiri Baraka has both written and said is clearly, patently inappropriate for children," said Shai Goldstein, New Jersey regional director of the Anti-Defamation League. "To make a decision to expose children to this kind of bigotry is a cause for great sadness." Kevin Davitt, a spokesman for the governor, agreed, saying the appointment "just boggles the mind." But there were few voices of condemnation in Newark, where Mr. Baraka, 67, remains one of the city's best known and beloved citizens. Many elected officials, like Councilman Donald Bradley, praised the board's decision, saying it brought much-needed attention to Mr. Baraka's expansive body of work and his years of devotion to the city's beleaguered public schools through poetry workshops and readings. "Even though he's written some controversial things, he has his First Amendment rights and he's done some wonderful things for Newark," Mr. Bradley said. For members of the elected board, which plays an advisory role in a school system still run by the state, the resolution honoring Mr. Baraka, a graduate of Newark schools, was an act of solidarity. At the previous meeting, the board passed a resolution calling on the Legislature to read the poem from beginning to end. "When someone is under attack unjustifiably, that's the time you have to speak out," said Richard Cammarieri, the board member who introduced both measures. Mr. Cammarieri, a friend of Mr. Baraka, said he did not consider the poem, "Somebody Blew Up America," anti-Semitic, noting that it addresses the oppression of both blacks and Jews and poses a provocative a question that is directed at Israel, not Jews: Who knew the World Trade Center was gonna get bombed Who told 4000 Israeli workers at the Twin Towers To stay home that day Why did Sharon stay away? Although that theory has been discredited, Mr. Baraka stands by the contention that Israelis were forewarned about the Sept. 11 attacks, saying there were only five Israelis among the nearly 3,000 victims. "The idea might sound bizarre, but to say I'm an anti-Semite is not based on reality," Mr. Baraka said today. "If they want to find anti-Semites, read the poetry of Ezra Pound and T.S. Eliot, poets that are loved and praised." As in the past, he challenged his critics to a line-by-line examination of the poem, which provoked widespread ire after it was read at a poetry festival in September. Moved by the school board's proclamation but resigned to the fate that awaits him in Trenton, Mr. Baraka offered a wry assessment of his short, stormy tenure as New Jersey's poet laureate. "At the very least," he said, "you can't say I'm not promoting poetry." Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 11:52:04 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: new website MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone. My new website is up, URL WilliamJamesAustin.com. All seems to be functioning well, except for Igor's and my collaboration which still resists the light of day. Working out the bugs on that one, but it can be seen on mIEKAL aND's Spidertangle site. Check out the "blackbox" gallery for work by Igor Satanovsky, Mike Magazinnik, Jesse Glass, Geoffrey Gatza, and Lanny Quarles. The gallery will function as a rotating exhibit. In a few months I'll post a submissions announcement. I hope to get all you good folks into the gallery sooner or later. My college website is still available by link. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 11:00:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: something happens in the head Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Andrew, Are you really claiming, as your post seems to imply, that Pound was a better writer than S. Howe? If so, on what basis-- other than your apparent dislike of the postmodern project? "Something good takes place in the head when subject and verb are joined." And I can tell you exactly what that is: recognition of the familiar. [Read entire post before hitting Reply.] One thing I think Pound & Howe have in common with other "good" poets (Dickinson, Niedecker, Shakespeare, Ashbery, Spicer come to mind, for starters) is an impatience with that recognition-- an almost violent will to push poetry toward the unfamiliar. Note that the unfamiliar is not necessarily the most disjunct or opaque construct imaginable, though at times it might be, as for example in the late 1970s. Is the crux of your argument that complete fragmentation is no longer sufficiently unfamiliar? If so I don't disagree. However, I sense a binary in your thinking: complete sentence "vs." fragmentation. Why not use both in the same poem? What about the way poets like Stein, Raworth, Coolidge (in some works) & Heliczer have managed to avoid either/or, by creating poems which are neither sentences nor accretions of fragments but which employ a fluidly expansive syntax: bird burgeoning sky frozen turmoil in the spawning grounds curved over the dusty line no impressionistic of pretty girls at street corners my fathers body lies in this lava hill where beggars and sea urchins are lapped by the lavender tongues of dog angels side walk painting of pastel chapels begs coin of the finest mint enamelled with verdigris my fathers body lies naked in his icon of blue jeans run soft white feel flower in the bones center the bone truly running up your back --opening of Heliczer's "bird burgeoning sky," p. 84 in the recent Granary Books collection. [& Note that his long lines will probably not translate well into an e-mail message]. Okay, that's maybe even too "syntactical" an example-- but you get what I mean. Would Pound have allowed for your "something good happens in the head"? Shouldn't we demand, even of our casual exchanges, a more rigorous thinking about poetry? I have nothing against complete sentences. I only insist that they be completely beautiful. Mark DuCharme <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'A sentence thinks loudly.' -—Gertrude Stein http://www.pavementsaw.org/cosmopolitan.htm http://www.nyspp.com/lisa/soc.htm >From: Andrew Rathmann >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: "good"/"bad" poetry >Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:53:17 -0800 > >Lawrence, I was just trying to use a kind of lazy but neutral shorthand to >refer to conventions that I think are prevalent. I do something similar >when I want to speak of "speech-based autobiographical lyricism." >Obviously these kinds of abbreviation aren't worth very much. Number me >among those who prefer to look at individual cases, anomalous cases. > >As for the incomplete sentence... > >"Sentence" is apparently related to the Latin "sentire," meaning aware. >What if there were the gist of a truth in this etymological kinship? >Incomplete sentence = limited awareness? Or awareness without limits, >boundless awareness? Perhaps a dog's awareness. "My bowl." "My bed." >"Smell of piss in the shrubbery." I'm kidding. But. > >"Disjunction," "parataxis": using these techniques usually means writing in >verbless phrases rather than sentences. You can see the origin of the >phrase-based style in the modernists. But compare Pound with Susan Howe: > >These are the stones of foundation >J. A.'s reply to the Governor >Impeachment of Oliver >These stones we built on >I don't receive a shilling a month, wrote Mr Adams to Abigail in seventeen >74 >June 7th. approve of committee from the several colonies >Bowdoin, Cushing, Sam Adams, John A. and Paine (Robert) >'mope, I muse, I ruminate' le >personnel manque we have not men for the times >Cut the overhead my dear wife and keep yr/ eye on the dairy > >Strange fear of sleep >am bafflement gone >Bat winged dim dawn >herthe midmost wide > >Pound wants to say "this is," "this is," "this is" -- "THESE are the STONES >of FOUNDATION" -- but then he gets things moving again with a quick action >verb: "cut the overhead." Howe is obviously more static, although she too >can write beautiful sentences, as we all know. > >I get the feeling -- which may be totally wrong -- that younger poets in >this tradition are moving back in the direction of, shall we say, fullness >of grammar. Opening at random Catherine Wagner's book Miss America, I >read: > >Is there a Kenmore, Penny Kenmore for ex >Or maybe it means "extremely canny" >I wrote a joke postcard first time in New York >Age 16 -- "I've been discovered >As Pretty Plus model for Sears Catalog" > >(Ken more = more canny?) I think there's something intrinsically more >canny about complete rather than incomplete -- something good takes place >in the head when subject and verb are joined. > >Andy _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 19:06:13 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: Virginia's speaks to her accusers Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I Contemporary inquisitors stood guard for months. guardians of = treasure..guardians of truth.the sort that take reason, or even no = reason prisoner...guardians of treasure..guardians of truth. using = maximum brutality and little excuse...guardians of treasure.. Plain and not fancy. Here is the truth. II There are some real brutes and bullies among you out there...guardians = of treasure..guardians of truth. I am speaking to you. Ne? And you. Non? And you. No? You know who you are...guardians of treasure..guardians of truth.=20 It is true that Virginia waswalking in circles...guardians of = treasure..guardians of truth.but life's a great game, and it's free and = better than ESTwhile, erstwhile stabs in the back That was not the direction, not even the map...guardians of = treasure..guardians of truth.that was needed as though each and everyone of your phrases perfection!!.keep it a prisoner, lest = it be stolen!! ...guardians of treasure..guardians of truth. Full of humanity and beautiful images...guardians of treasure..guardians = of truth. a dog's vomit is purer Please pause for a moment of silence &or bitter gelechter...guardians of = treasure..guardians of truth. Rest assured, but not by Virginia.guardians of treasure..guardians of = truth. someone might take your/our/my/his/her/their words.take them = right out of his/her/their/my mouth(s).guardians of treasure..guardians = of truth. when I come.I SPIT STARS...guardians of treasure..guardians of = truth.and fear not the bullies and cowards, fear them not. _____________________________________________________________________ III =20 Unnecessarily brutal catty=20 intrusive=20 uncharitable=20 and viscious=20 EST GAMES=20 conducted by rankamateurs vomit, not truth, out of your mouths=20 Malcontents...hypocrites...guardians of treasure..guardians of truth. You haven't a clue.=20 ____________________________________________________________ IV Snowglobe images, love and compassion from the poets among you...the way = out of paralysis...guardians of treasure..guardians of truth.a better = interpretation has followed yours There is only ever one question ...guardians of treasure..guardians of = truth. HOW DO WE TREAT ONE ANOTHER? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 14:12:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Isat@AOL.COM Subject: Magazinnik#2 release party MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit RUSSIAN-AMERICAN LITZINE MAGAZINNIK INVITES YOU TO ATTEND The Release Of Magazinnik #2 Saturday December 21st, 4pm @ Bowery Poetry Club. New Wave of Russian art & literature in New York. 13 Poets! 5 Performances! With special musical guest Psoy Korolenko. Participants: William James Austin, Roman Gadzhilov, Sasha Galper, Feliks Davelman, Aleksey Daen, Leonid Drozner, Marik Kagan, Magazinnik, Nura Milman, Zhenya Plechkina, Dmitry Romendik, Dmitry Rozin, Igor Satanovsky, Misha Sklar 308 Bowery (at Bleecker Str., right across from CBGB's) F train to Second Ave / 6 train to Bleecker / 212-614-0505 Cover Charge - $6 www.magazinnik.com www.kojapress.com www.bowerypoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 13:31:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: Poetry Project Announcements Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable The Poetry Project will be closed from December 23-27. There are no events programmed for next week. We return on January 1 with our 29th Annual New Year's Day Marathon Reading= . We hope to see many of you there. Meanwhile, we wish you all a safe and happy holiday, and the very best for the coming year. *** THE 29TH ANNUAL NEW YEAR'S DAY MARATHON READING January 1, 2003, 2pm-1am $20, $15 for Poetry Project members Refreshments available This year's poets and performers include: Bruce Andrews, Penny Arcade, Barbara Barg, Anselm Berrigan, Eddie Bell, Edmund Berrigan, Eric Bogosian, Donna Brook, Lee Ann Brown, Michael Brownstein, Dana Bryant, John Cale, David Cameron, Jim Carroll, Miles Champion, Yoshiko Chuma, Chris Rael/Churc= h of Betty, Todd Colby, John Coletti, Brenda Coultas, Jordan Davis, Maggie Dubris, Douglas Dunn, Marcella Durand, Marty Ehrlich, Maggie Estep, Merry Fortune, Tonya Foster, Ed Friedman, Gregory Fuchs, Joanna Fuhrman, Cliff Fyman, Gordon Gano, Philip Glass, John Godfrey, Nada Gordon, Ted Greenwald, Kimiko Hahn, John S. Hall, Janet Hamill, Marcella Harb, Richard Hell, David Henderson, Robert Hershon, Bob Holman, Vicki Hudspith, Erica Hunt, Lisa Jarnot, Patricia Spears Jones, Lenny Kaye, Tuli Kupferberg, Bill Kushner, Deniz=E9 Lauture, Rachel Levitsky, Brendan Lorber, Michael Lydon, Kimberly Lyons, Jackson Mac Low, Judith Malina, Taylor Mead, Sharon Mesmer, Ange Mlinko, Rebecca Moore, Elinor Nauen, Murat Nemet-Nejat, Jim Neu & Blackeyed Susan, Dael Orlandersmith, Maureen Owen, Simon Pettet, Wanda Phipps, Rev. Pedro Pietri, Kristin Prevallet, Hanon Reznikov, Vernon Reid, Reno, Marc Ribot, Bob Rosenthal, Douglas Rothschild, Tom Savage, Sally Silvers, Jenny Smith, Patti Smith, Christopher Stackhouse, Gary Sullivan, Anne Tardos, Lynne Tillman, Edwin Torres, Tony Towle, Lourdes Vazquez, Paul Violi, Anne Waldman, Jo Ann Wasserman, Africa Wayne, Emily XYZ, John Yau, Don Yorty, Nick Zedd, and more. *** The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church in-the-Bowery at 131 E. 10th Street, on the corner of 2nd Avenue in Manhattan. Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. The Poetry Project is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information, or e-mail us at poproj@poetryproject.com. *** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 12:26:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu Subject: new from housepress: "DOG" by Frank Davey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable housepress is pleased to announce the publication of: DOG a new chapbook by Frank Davey published in an edition of 80 handbound copies. $4.00 each incl. postage In the vein of his "Cultural Mischief" (talonbooks, 1996), Frank Davey's = DOG explores the politics of the former Yugoslavia, gender, sexuality, = death and dogshows. Frank Davey is editor of "Open Letter," a professor of English and the = author of numerous books of literary criticism and poetry. for more information, or to order copies, contact: derek beaulieu derek@housepress.ca 403-234-0336 (p) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 12:10:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Subject: Re: FACTORY SCHOOL digital audio archive In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joel I could, personally, do without all the sylvia plath (tho it's probly pretty popular). how about some lew welch? DH -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of J. Kuszai Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 6:05 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: FACTORY SCHOOL digital audio archive Having filled the 1 gigabyte of storage allotted for the Factory School digital audio archive, it's time to think about what to remove as I'd like to cycle new audio files in over next few weeks. Eventually, all of the files will be available somewhere, but for now I need some feedback as to what to keep on-line and what to move temporarily off-line until arrangements can be made. Since I know that folks from more than twenty countries regularly visit the archive, I'm worried about disruptions in service. While site reports allow me to know which are the most popular files (top 30 by month), please let me know (back-channel, thanks) which files you currently use or need for teaching purposes. I know from these reports which files get used the most, so another way to 'vote' would be to click on your favorite poet reading her/his work. But I am concerned about files that may not appear on the popularity radar. Thanks for your help. http://www.factoryschool.org J. Kuszai Also, would Eric Baus, Jeff Davis, Mike Boughn and Laura Wright please drop me a note privately? These folks, and anyone else who makes a donation of tapes, will receive the entire archive on 2 disks-- about 600 files. -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 15:23:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nada Gordon Subject: i have a blog now too! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I just started a blog. it's at: http://ululate.blogspot.com/ It's young and tender -- just one entry -- but I'd love to have you over for a visit. Some breezily skimmed-over topics: urban wildlife urban design ornament "the exotic" pigeons, squirrels, and sparrows (and rats) zen poet Shinkichi Takahashi Mina Loy (& teaching Mina Loy to undergrads) and LOTS MORE TO COME! love, nada -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 15:29:04 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: U.S. Corporations implicated in Iraq MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Forgive me for cross-posting. & please spread the word.... To me much of it seems to be relatively old news (specifically, the list of US corporate weapons suppliers to Saddam particularly between 1984-1988 has been available for years via other sources, including a former US Army General) but I guess now that Iraq's list matches what's been in circulation for a while. Which perhaps lessens the credibility of the list. What's being left out is *who* brokered the deals between US Corporations and the Iraqi government. We all know a company who sells somethings wants to sell it. No big surprise there. But who lets it or makes it happen? Hint: the first four letters of one of the brokers' names is: B-U-S-H as in Vice President George Herbert Walker Bush Patrick -----Original Message----- From: znetupdates-owner@zmail.zmag.org [mailto:znetupdates-owner@zmail.zmag.org]On Behalf Of Michael Albert Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 9:21 AM To: znetupdates@zmail.zmag.org Subject: U.S. Corps implicated in Iraq ... from Znet Hi, Two messages today...a head's up on what will be a huge story (interfering with U.S. war plans) around the world, that MAY even break into serious visibility in the U.S., and another in our series of book interviews that we are periodically sending, to let you know about excellent new titles (this one by Milan Rai called War Plan Iraq). First, when the massive pile of documents from Iraq appeared, in photos, in the paper, and the U.S. immediately pulled out all stops to get first access, to shut down wide dissemination, etc. -- the smart money said that buried in the morass there would be evidence of U.S. (and European) culpability in aiding the Iraqi weapons programs, dating back to before the Gulf War, but covering the period of Hussein's rise and his worst crimes, etc. And lo and below...to be reported in tomorow's Die Tageszeitung (Berlin daily), here is a list of US corporations that alegedly supplied Iraq with nuclear, chemical, biological, and missile technology, prior to 1991. The list comes, it seems, from the original Iraqi report to the Security Council. This is a big breaking story in Europe - read the clip from this morning's Independent (London) below the list. --- U.S. corporations involved... A - nuclear K - chemical B - biological R - rockets (missiles) 1) Honeywell (R,K) 2) Spektra Physics (K) 3) Semetex (R) 4) TI Coating (A,K) 5) UNISYS (A,K) 6) Sperry Corp. (R,K) 7) Tektronix (R,A) 8) Rockwell )(K) 9) Leybold Vacuum Systems (A) 10) Finnigan-MAT-US (A) 11) Hewlett Packard (A.R,K) 12) Dupont (A) 13) Eastman Kodak (R) 14) American Type Culture Collection (B) 15) Alcolac International (C) 16) Consarc (A) 17) Carl Zeis -U.Ss (K) 18) Cerberus (LTD) (A) 19) Electronic Assiciates (R) 20) International Computer Systems 21) Bechtel (K) 22) EZ Logic Data Systems,Inc. (R) 23) Canberra Industries Inc. (A) 24) Axel Electronics Inc. (A) Additionally to these 24 companies based in the US, are nearly 50 subsidiaries of foreign enterprises whose arms co-operation with Iraq seems to have been operated from the US. In addition, Ministries for defense, energy, trade, and agriculture, as well as the foremost U.S. nuclear weapons laboratories at Lawrence Livermore. Los Alamos, and Sandia, are designated as suppliers for the Iraqi arms programs for A, B, and C-weapons as well as for rockets. Here is the report from this morning's Independent, in London... Leaked Report Says German and US Firms Supplied Arms to Saddam By Tony Paterson The Independent (UK) Baghdad's uncensored report to UN names Western companies alleged to have developed its weapons of mass destruction. Wednesday, 18 December, 2002 Iraq's 11,000-page report to the UN Security Council lists 150 foreign companies, including some from America, Britain, Germany and France, that supported Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction programme, a German newspaper said yesterday. Berlin's left-wing Die Tageszeitung newspaper said it had seen a copy of the original Iraqi dossier which was vetted for sensitive information by US officials before being handed to the five permanent Security Council members two weeks ago. An edited version was passed to the remaining 10 members of the Security Council last night. British officials said the list of companies appeared to be accurate. Eighty German firms and 24 US companies are reported to have supplied Iraq with equipment and know-how for its weapons programmes from 1975 onwards and in some cases support for Baghdad's conventional arms programme had continued until last year. It is not known who leaked the report, but it could have come from Iraq. Baghdad is keen to embarrass the US and its allies by showing the close involvement of US, German, British and French firms in helping Iraq develop its weapons of mass destruction when the country was a bulwark against the much feared spread of Iranian revolutionary fervour to the Arab world. The list contained the names of long-established German firms such as Siemens as well as US multi-nationals. With government approval, Siemens exported machines used to eliminate kidney stones which have a "dual use" high precision switch used to detonate nuclear bombs. Ten French companies were also named along with a number of Swiss and Chinese firms. The newspaper said a number of British companies were cited, but did not name them. "From about 1975 onwards, these companies are shown to have supplied entire complexes, building elements, basic materials and technical know-how for Saddam Hussein's programme to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction," the newspaper said. "They also supplied rockets and complete conventional weapons systems," it added. The five permanent members of the Security Council -- the United States, Britain, Russia, France and China -- have repeatedly opposed revealing the extent of foreign companies' involvement, although a mass of relevant information was collected by UN weapons inspectors who visited the country between 1991 and 1998. The UN claims that publishing the extent of the companies' involvement in Iraq would jeopardise necessary co-operation with such firms. German involvement outstripped that of all the other countries put together, the paper said. During the period to 1991, the German authoritiespermitted weapons co-operation with Iraq and in some cases "actively encouraged" it, according to the newspaper which cited German assistance allegedly given to Iraq for the development of poison gas used in the 1988 massacre of Kurds in northern Iraq. It said that after the massacre America reduced its military co-operation with Iraq but German firms continued their activities until the Gulf War. Die Tageszeitung quoted sources close to the US Vice President, Dick Cheney, as saying the Bush administration was hoping to prove a German company was continuing to co-operate with the Iraqi regime over the supply of equipment allegedly useful in the construction of weapons of mass destruction. American weapons experts have recently voiced concern that the German Government has permitted Siemens to sell Baghdad at least eight sophisticated medical machines which contain devices that are vital for nuclear weapons. The machines, known as "lithotripters", use ultrasound to destroy kidney stones in patients. However, each machine contains an electronic switch that can be used as a detonator in an atomic bomb, according to US experts. Iraq was reported to have requested an extra 120 switches as "spare parts" during the initial transaction. The delivery of the machines was approved by the European Commission and the UN because sanctions against Iraq do not apply to medical equipment. Siemens and the German Government have insisted that the machines, which are being used in northern Iraq under a World Health Organisation programme, cannot be used to make nuclear weapons. -------- Also, here is a brief interview for your pleasure/edification with Milan Rai, in ZNet's usual manner, regarding his new book, published by Verso... Interviewing Milan Rai War Plan Iraq http://versobooks.com/books/nopqrs/r-titles/rai_m_iraq.shtml 1) Can you tell ZNet, please, what your new book is about? What is it trying to communicate? War Plan Iraq tries to explain and document how the US has been hostile to both UN weapons inspectors and to real regime change in Iraq. It also sets out reasons why a war on Iraq would be immoral and illegal, including the likely catastrophic effects on the civilian population. The book is intended to give anti-war activists the ammunition they need to win the argument and persuade the uncommitted. Recent history demonstrates that the US has tried to achieve 'regime stabilisation and only leadership change' in Iraq (by denying support to the uprisings in 1991, for example), and has prioritised these goals over the disarmament/inspection process in Iraq (by collapsing the UN weapons inspection process in December 1998, for example). The idea of the book was that it should be possible to give it to someone who is solidly pro-war and for them not to be able to immediately reject it, but be forced to engage with the depth of documentation and the sober presentation. Very important to the book are anti-war observations by relatives of September 11th victims Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: new website Comments: To: ImitaPo Memebers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "hey you! come here. provide an ear and a calculator" Hi Bill, I wanted to comment on your website. I am glad its up and you have done a wonderful job. I love the picture, you always come off scary on film :-) And before I begin, thanks for a place in your gallery. I am honored. I have been dwelling on post avant writings lately and your idea of visionism hits the mark for me today. Its comforting that it is not set in a manifesto or something to subscribe to but offering a continuity between ancient myth through the avant and passing LANGUAGE. The use of obfuscated emotion is wonderful. Its odd to see your work lined down the page but I am guessing this is from the HTML. It opens the playing field in Symphony though. The four parts contrasting inwardly on related movements makes for a full poem. The sound and echo displayed in divided sentences gives a tense impression of Silliman but it goes beyond doesn't it. As new sentence applying for an AARP card, wink. (I'll probably be in trouble on the blog, [Ron, that's Gatza with an O]). I am just coming off of a cold and 'vaporized' made me laugh. The blending of JC over that hairstyle in a wheelchair is provocative, a finding of Peace in black and white. Your other new media poems are fun too. The atomic blast seems unusually timely again. I haven't thought about death from above in since the 80's. The more things change . All in all it's a wonderful site and wish you all the success in the world :-) Best, Geoffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 11:52 AM Subject: new website > Hello everyone. My new website is up, URL WilliamJamesAustin.com. All seems > to be functioning well, except for Igor's and my collaboration which still > resists the light of day. Working out the bugs on that one, but it can be > seen on mIEKAL aND's Spidertangle site. > > Check out the "blackbox" gallery for work by Igor Satanovsky, Mike > Magazinnik, Jesse Glass, Geoffrey Gatza, and Lanny Quarles. The gallery will > function as a rotating exhibit. In a few months I'll post a submissions > announcement. I hope to get all you good folks into the gallery sooner or > later. My college website is still available by link. Best, Bill > > WilliamJamesAustin.com > KojaPress.com > Amazon.com > BarnesandNoble.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 17:05:30 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: lee ann brown Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" please backchannel a mailing address for lee ann...thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 16:17:43 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: i have a blog now too! In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hopefully nada you'll "announce" interesting your new additions to the list. I can't bring myself to check blogs religiously or make them part of my daily internet ritual but if something catches my eye I'll check it out. ron's lists even got me to check out his posts a couple times. you mention urban wildlife, the permaculture of, I assume. where does wild poetry fit in that design? mIEKAL On Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 02:23 PM, Nada Gordon wrote: > I just started a blog. > > it's at: http://ululate.blogspot.com/ > > > It's young and tender -- just one entry -- but I'd love to have you > over for a visit. > > > Some breezily skimmed-over topics: > > urban wildlife > urban design > ornament > "the exotic" > pigeons, squirrels, and sparrows (and rats) > zen poet Shinkichi Takahashi > Mina Loy (& teaching Mina Loy to undergrads) > > and LOTS MORE TO COME! > > love, > nada > -- > > mIEKAL aND memexikon@mwt.net | ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 14:24:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: the look's not to be trusted - it's better to twist then sneeze In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the look's not to be trusted - it's better to twist then sneeze ends disappeared with the best of them, becoming sulfur and mercury that becomes fingers on the hand. the typical what for's become further conveniences' to become every whether tods bravely tethered to pluses and minuses, carrying on about zed and naught parenthesis filled with burgeoning slightness of edge, beckoning with broadcast hand-jobs and perma-press 60 watt fantasies. a collateral was set up at 5.5%, accruing interest on a bimonthly rotation, allowing each the option of the position and a personal motto. all this, while from a location still is yet to be determined through a filter of whispers came: " someone is in pain, someone is in pain . . ." it didn't stop for days; " someone is in pain . . ." at the same time or one of those moments later that seems like the same time the young and nubile stated to appear everywhere in groups of three or not singing: "someone is in pain and we are here to help." reaching out with their pincher type appendages. all fades to black. at that same moment; the symbol of an eagle, a cross, a star, a pyramid, one eye, and a cross-stitched adage of; " there's no place like home" - appears, then there is a clicking sound or guns or heels, and again - " there's no place like home." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 17:38:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: Re: i have a blog now too! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit question... how many folks on this list would be interested in a site for poetry blogs? i'd be willing to set up a space similar to the blogspot site for poetry folks if there was enough interest. not sure how it would exactly work, but i'd give it some thought depending on the feedback. i'm sure i could set up the option for a wider choice of templates to choose from. there would be no banner ads (& thus no possibility for nasty spyware cookies anywhere), but there might be, say, a $10 / year charge to cover the server space. still have to think it all through though. ----- Original Message ----- From: "mIEKAL aND" To: Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 5:17 PM Subject: Re: i have a blog now too! > hopefully nada you'll "announce" interesting your new additions to the > list. I can't bring myself to check blogs religiously or make them > part of my daily internet ritual but if something catches my eye I'll > check it out. ron's lists even got me to check out his posts a couple > times. > > you mention urban wildlife, the permaculture of, I assume. where does > wild poetry fit in that design? > > mIEKAL > > > > On Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 02:23 PM, Nada Gordon wrote: > > > I just started a blog. > > > > it's at: http://ululate.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > It's young and tender -- just one entry -- but I'd love to have you > > over for a visit. > > > > > > Some breezily skimmed-over topics: > > > > urban wildlife > > urban design > > ornament > > "the exotic" > > pigeons, squirrels, and sparrows (and rats) > > zen poet Shinkichi Takahashi > > Mina Loy (& teaching Mina Loy to undergrads) > > > > and LOTS MORE TO COME! > > > > love, > > nada > > -- > > > > > mIEKAL aND > memexikon@mwt.net > | > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 18:04:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: The Next Big Thing -- Friday in Philadelphia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The poet Sean Cole produced a terrific radio piece featuring me that will air on WHYY in Philadelphia Friday at 11 AM. The recent Ruth Lilly gift to POETRY Chicago got Sean thinking: what happens when you take poets out of their normal lives of poverty and obscurity and insert them onto the lap of luxury? A limo ride and a trip to the posh Presidential suite of the Charles Hotel proves to have quite an impact on my poetry. With a cameo by Alice Quinn of the NEW YORKER! Please listen, you Brotherly lovers! The Next Big Thing is syndicated to many public radio stations--check your local listings or check out wnyc.org for more info. --Jimmy Behrle _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 09:04:08 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jesse glass Subject: Generator Magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit is currently seeking submissions. For more information please go to: http://generatorpress.com This issue will also include a CD. Jess ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 16:09:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: to the moon In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit to the moon you may feel trapped in infinite space in vise grip pressure cement shoes - " you cannot have just mustard on your way all the time your way all the time comes with all the fixin's ready for everybody all the time, how my help you?" exact change for a one way on the wrong way on a one way toilet seat scratch and sniff barber chair - lasers for nose hair prosecutors - hip exploding tips exploding shoes combustible symbols half off sale - hail sale - fire sale - x-rated bake sale - lock and load used nuclear reactor move in sales - half off first month G spot locators - blow up blow job libido suitors - lynchburg's ring around the rosy namesake ringin' in the new year with the bells of st. mary on your dick - dip sticks for shit kickers and foxhole diggers - 10 years of psychoanalysis electric sticker shock flypaper - you say potato I say convertible davenport pepsi-cola abysmal peptobismal grand mal seizures discounts cancer support self-help books for friends and neighbors of the fork in the road silver spoons in place of silver coins on the eyes of the dead - careless hat tricks - rabbits out of genetically altered bats - broadcasting 24 hours a day all the time everywhere - up the rectum expanding into your intestines - heart attacks pacemaker peace keeper missile defense delkon shield - patriot act black plague clothing lined with polyester budweiser prophylactics - marriage laws in laws out doors display - any derelictions of duty will not be tolerated today or any day - doorjambs traffic jams toe jam sold to countries not part of the magnificent seven as heart pills security fences for your noun subject core finance charges licenses to kill Blockbuster men with a bullet to the top 10 one of these days alice ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 19:25:01 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nuyopoman@AOL.COM Subject: MLA BLAST @ Bowery Poetry Club Comments: cc: KALAMU@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Segue Series at 4: December 28: Dan Farrell & Jessica Grim Dan Farrell has been "teased in both BC and NY. Now in SF only milder. That and that. The Inkblot Record (Toronto: Coach House Books, 2000) and Last Instance (San Francisco: Krupskaya Press, 1999) on the shelf. The technophile may enjoy Graphing the News http://www.erols.com/dfar/Rmain, the collectors of memorabilia ape (Vancouver: Tsunami Editions, 1988)." Jessica Grim's recent books are Fray (1998) and Locale (1995); a new e-book, Vexed, appears in the /ubu ("slash ubu") series and can soon be downloaded at www.ubu.com/ubu. She lives in Oberlin, Ohio. We'll be having a special 2-for-one cocktail party 6-8, then free admittance all night for MLAers w/ special readers & music till 2am. Bob Holman w/ Billy Bang Trio at 10, among others. Come. Groove. Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery betw. Bleecker & Houston 212-614-0505 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 19:25:25 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: new website MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/19/02 4:16:56 PM, ggatza@DAEMEN.EDU writes: << "hey you! come here. provide an ear and a calculator" Hi Bill, I wanted to comment on your website. I am glad its up and you have done a wonderful job. I love the picture, you always come off scary on film :-) And before I begin, thanks for a place in your gallery. I am honored. I have been dwelling on post avant writings lately and your idea of visionism hits the mark for me today. Its comforting that it is not set in a manifesto or something to subscribe to but offering a continuity between ancient myth through the avant and passing LANGUAGE. The use of obfuscated emotion is wonderful. Its odd to see your work lined down the page but I am guessing this is from the HTML. It opens the playing field in Symphony though. The four parts contrasting inwardly on related movements makes for a full poem. The sound and echo displayed in divided sentences gives a tense impression of Silliman but it goes beyond doesn't it. As new sentence applying for an AARP card, wink. (I'll probably be in trouble on the blog, [Ron, that's Gatza with an O]). I am just coming off of a cold and 'vaporized' made me laugh. The blending of JC over that hairstyle in a wheelchair is provocative, a finding of Peace in black and white. Your other new media poems are fun too. The atomic blast seems unusually timely again. I haven't thought about death from above in since the 80's. The more things change . All in all it's a wonderful site and wish you all the success in the world :-) Best, Geoffrey >> Ah ... you begin by quoting me! No greater honor, Geoff. Thanks so much for that, and for your contributions to, and commentary on, the site. I'm new at this, and certainly not in your website league, so I'm sure to fuck up often. Hope everyone will be patient while I feel my way. By the way, you're right. Visionism is not a movement or school or fedora or wildebeest. It's not new and it's never old. By the way, I have no gripe with Ron. I don't think he meant to hurt anyone's feelings. I think his intent was to protect, not to attack. His heart is in the right place, just a tad overactive at times. I respect him. Hell, I respect everyone on this list. I want my work to stir up some controversy. Geoff, you seem bent the same way and I love you for it. After all, we're not doing anything the langpoets didn't try to do back in the day. Best to you and Donna, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 16:45:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: "good"/"bad" poetry In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > >"Sentence" is apparently related to the Latin "sentire," meaning aware. >What if there were the gist of a truth in this etymological kinship? >Incomplete sentence = limited awareness? Or awareness without limits, >boundless awareness? Perhaps a dog's awareness. "My bowl." "My bed." >"Smell of piss in the shrubbery." I'm kidding. But. Andrew: Since my one-line reply (lit theory as haiku) I've been troubling over the above. Etymology is I think a limited, if occasionally useful, signpost on the road to wisdom. What accrues over centuries is more often than not the accident of transmission, especially when the transmission is across languages. Incomplete sentence=they left the cell door open? No matter--in this case the source is not a noun, but a verb, sentire, to be sensorily aware, to sense.. Hence, sense, meaning feel, also scent,as well as the other senses--all sensations. So if I say "smell of piss" I've expressed a sense, maybe by inference a sentiment. Sentience. Sentence as sentimentality? The dog's awareness is actually pretty interesting. It parses that smell, which is why it takes so long at the sniffing and finds it so exciting. The dog's poem, if the owner could read it, might well be a list of nouns punctuated by an occasional question. A four dimensional reflexive field, its entire vocabulary a list of what's been left there and who left it. One way to costitute a moment's world. Mark ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 01:40:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: ff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ff drowning, the capsized boat righted at sea or brought to land for careful repair, all firing counterbalanced, all considerations given only to the pacific, no missile shall sully our space or any other, no united states army terrorist helicopter shall attempt flyby, we shall kill them with kindness, with supersonic flowers piercing rotors, stalling ramjet and jet alike, we shall inscribe the skies with our pacific aims and energies, thus shall we memorialize the density of the pacific and transcendent, without alloy, shall we silence all sirens, thus our proposal for lower manhattan, this fortified quietude, thus :: when in doubt, with fortune, and men's eyes, i tend to propose for lower manhattan, a memorial of turret and bunker, aimed always skyward downward, employed against any and all intervention, from foreign or domestic powers, no airforce or navy, no marine, shall desecrate the bunker with a flyby, no bullet shall graze this hallowed ground, no siren shall elicit any but aid to the rescue of fire or : withdraw, only cowards live to tell the truth : i am a coward with careful repair :: no united states or foreign airforce shall fly above our hallowed city : no planes or missiles or bombs :: i am a coward in careful repair only cowards live and tell the truth cowards are the survivors of the fittest , all firing counterbalanced, all considerations given only to the pacific, no ssan unset unset operating parameters ('unset ?' for more)ad issile shall sully our space or any other, no united states army terrorist cowards are the survivors of the fittestg/portal/ helicnt status informationg out.01 lgold01 helicnt status informationuctures are dense and stro toggle toholes give a sense helicnt status information hthom003 lgome001 toggle toprin of lightness, helicnt status informationf bulk and overbearing tha toggle to delarosa ht helicnt status informationpet01 sspur001 F man toggle toiversityter432 Dea toggle tong public space an toggle to among land, shado toggle to ssspon01use to ac we shall kill them all :: shall survive :: tong public space === ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 02:25:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: encyclopoetica #0001 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit encyclopoetica #0001 Excruciating slowness feel. Nadger excruciating slowness feel. Muzzle! Yes procession worship. Similar rods filled uranium entire core. Nadger excruciating slowness feel. Dripping sweat gasping. Muzzle! Yes procession worship. John von neumann similar rods filled uranium entire core. Nadger excruciating slowness feel. Domain name system dripping sweat gasping. Muzzle! Yes procession worship. Accepting to subject suggestion braved methods precisely ravings. John von neumann similar rods filled uranium entire core. Nadger network device interface specification domain name system dripping sweat gasping. Muzzle! Yes procession worship. Loosing realize. Accepting to subject suggestion braved methods precisely ravings. John von neumann similar rods filled uranium entire core. Mend methods to influence solid lack officers free-company granite. Network device interface specification domain name system dripping sweat gasping. Upward watched muscles tense. Loosing realize. Accepting to subject suggestion braved methods precisely ravings. John von neumann breeding granite pathetic amused to influence panties enamels assented. Mend methods to influence solid lack officers free-company granite. Network device interface specification domain name system panties put panty clinically useful upward watched muscles tense. Loosing realize. Accepting to subject suggestion braved methods precisely ravings. Camorra serene accepting intrusted keep an eye on to influence writ. Breeding granite pathetic amused to influence panties enamels assented. Mend methods to influence solid lack officers free-company granite. Network device interface specification panties put panty clinically useful upward watched muscles tense. Loosing realize. Domed structure conveying camorra serene accepting intrusted keep an eye on to influence writ. Breeding granite pathetic amused to influence panties enamels assented. Mend methods to influence solid lack officers free-company granite. Again voice little shaky. Panties put panty clinically useful upward watched muscles tense. Listserv domed structure conveying camorra serene accepting intrusted keep an eye on to influence writ. Breeding granite pathetic amused to influence panties enamels assented. Sturgeon's law again voice little shaky. Panties put panty clinically useful xremote listserv domed structure conveying camorra serene accepting intrusted keep an eye on to influence writ. Strapped hips huge fake. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.427 / Virus Database: 240 - Release Date: 12/7/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 02:33:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: encyclopoetica #0002 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit encyclopoetica #0002 Internet group management protocol-jelly return come back. Simplicity? The flung blew boorish precisely amazed lengths. Knowing granite risk to might inside mouthpiece risk precisely flung. Instantly darted issue to influence to abandon. Trevor bucked hips violently. Agricultural laborers who left villages forced. Jelly going insert. Adoptive child described whole procession rooms. 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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.427 / Virus Database: 240 - Release Date: 12/7/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 05:56:37 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: MLA BLAST.... BOOM BOOM BOOM... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 14:45:03 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Platt CATALOGONY 13. ILLUMINATED MAGNIFIER Sit back and watch it all go danger batteries (not included). adjusts for proper alignent. There are black, green, and blue. silver dazzle attractive playing surface. Long lasting, wipes clean. amazing, Clear plastic cases have lift-off top with cut-out tree design AS IT HAS BEEN [tional Technologies! 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For ages 3 and up zips up INTERCHANGEABLE all. in no time (not included). Please specify ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 11:11:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: To blog or not to blog Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I remember when cable TV first arrived on the scene. There were so many hilarious rough hewn, do-it-yourself shows, particularly on public access channels. I particularly liked twisted parodies of talk shows. One really weird one, I don't remember the name, I'm told ended up being shown as a rerun on MTV. I'm sure plenty of this still goes on, but with the current explosion of channels and cable networks, how would you find them or hear about the interesting ones? In the early days of the poetics list, there were few other poetry discussion groups- that I knew about, anyway- focusing on innovative writing. Then came the subpoetics list-I've heard it's very interesting- as are many others, no doubt. Then webmagazines like potepoetzine, Alterran Assemblage, Alienated.net and Laurable appeared-and others like Ethan Paquin's Slope, August Highland's m.a.g. and Chris Tysh's mark(s). I've been checking Alienated.net fairly regularly as it has some interesting poetry announcements, reviews and lists many other worthwhile sites. When the first blogs arrived on the scene, I realized another step in this accelerating evolution was taking place like the much earlier TV evolution from cable or that from the 60s and 70s explosion of inexpensive mimeo and xeroxed magazines. Why publish in- or publish, for that matter- a mimeo or xeroxed magazine when you can be published in or publish a gorgeous perfect bound mag or book? Why write frequently on the poetics list when you can have your own blog? You can have all the space you want, and if someone is not interested they don't have to read it, right? If they like what they are reading, they can read some or all of the earlier entries. I've read, for example, Ron Silliman and Jordan Davis' blogs and they are both worthwhile and interesting. I guess it's like sponsoring or being sponsored on your own regular TV show instead of being an occasional or regular guest on a program. Then, after awhile, why just have your own show when you can have your own network? Then you can sponsor many shows, and so on. Having closely watched the fate of cable, I expected this, but I'm feeling a little wistful seeing that old gang of mine from the poetics list go on to fame and fortune on their own soon to be award winning websites and other terrific spinoffs. I hope they will keep on posting on and visiting the poetics list frequently anyway, perhaps posting some of their favorite blog entries on the list- or with permission, of course, those of others. In any case, before long, we'll be seeing web program guides, the -Webcademy Awards- or the -E-mies- the Best of the Blogs- and online anthologies. So far, most prolific listees like Ron keep us up to date regularly about their writing on other sites -along with their readings and publications. I'm certainly looking forward to Nada Gordon's and Bill Austin's sites. I'm sure I'll keep up to date, I usually try, but I am already imagining becoming nostalgic and going back and reading some of those great early editions of the poetics list when I wasn't reading it so closely- and rereading Joel Kuzai's terrific poetics@-Roof-1999. You can always console yourself with reruns! Nick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 11:55:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: A Manual for Intellectual Survival MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A Manual for Intellectual Survival « For a totalitarian regime, wrote Arendt, the ideal citizen isn’t a chest-thumping Nazi, but rather the man for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (meaning the reality of the experience) and the distinction between true and false (meaning the standard way of thinking) doesn’t exist any more.» To commemorate the tenth anniversary of the International Parliament of Writers, www.autodafe.org is starting the publication of a series of articles in order to attempt to provide an overview of the new dangers weighing on literature and thought, the unprecedented forms that censure and propaganda are wearing today, as well as the new means and networks of intellectual, literary and linguistic resistance. Power, names, and words, by Carlos Fuentes Verena Becker, by Antoine Volodine A Critique of Reason Wanting..., by Stanko Cerovic The Narrative's Ground Zero, by Christian Salmon ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 09:02:08 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Re: To blog or not to blog In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit As usual I am probably in the minority here, but after so much has been written about the "death of the author" by experimentalists of every stripe, hasn't the invention of the blog merely resuscitated him in the most reactionary way possible, namely, in the form of the personal journal where the "I" is foregrounded in nearly every word? It makes me think that what is being called "new media art" is merely an attempt at backtracking modernity to the bad old ways under the slick guise of a new media facade. Another example of this is the grossly overused word (and one I happen to hate) "immersive" that gets tossed about mainly in relation to virtual reality. I think Brecht and Shlovsky would have had fits over that. O where are the forward-thinking new ideas that would make this brave new media truly the innovation it deserves to be, instead of a safe haven for closetted traditionalists? Controversially yours, mwp ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 02:13:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jesse glass Subject: Generator e-mail address MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's the e-mail address for Generator: generator@msn.com Asian work: translations of contemporary Korean and Japanese poets--esp. Korean--send to me at ahadada@gol.com Thanks! Jess ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 12:25:31 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: To blog or not to blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/20/02 11:12:16 AM, npiombino@AAAHAWK.COM writes: << I'm certainly looking forward to Nada Gordon's and Bill Austin's sites. I'm sure I'll keep up to date, I usually try, but I am already imagining becoming nostalgic and going back and reading some of those great early editions of the poetics list when I wasn't reading it so closely- and rereading Joel Kuzai's terrific poetics@-Roof-1999. You can always console yourself with reruns! >> Thanks for mentioning the site(s), Nick. I also enjoy running barefoot through the UB archives. We're getting old. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 09:18:36 -0800 Reply-To: adeniro@rocketmail.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan DeNiro Subject: Re: blogs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Already there are stylistic conventions codifying around blog-use. Most blogs are evidentiary (based on some measure of topicality) or the relevatory (x, y, and z happened to me today). But there's no reason these conventions can't be turned into palimpsests or fissures themselves. There are also sometimes underutilized collaborative tools with blogging --although some of the Live Journal sites have the right idea. Good discussions and the like can come out of weblogging -- it's a matter of establishing the "right" software (commenting systems, rings, etc.) to afford those types of opportunities. One of my favorites to read is The Dinghy, http://thedinghy.blogspot.com. Performing strangeness, there. What blogs do best is provide a streamlined typography for thought. Almost like a Carolingian reassessment of the homepage (probably an imperfect analogy, but...) Best, Alan ________ http://www.taverners-koans.com http://ptarmigan.blogspot.com ===== Alan DeNiro Editor, Taverner's Koans (1-room schoolhouse of experimental poetics) http://www.taverners-koans.com Correspondent, Ptarmigan http://ptarmigan.blogspot.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 12:34:43 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: To blog or not to blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/20/02 12:00:22 PM, mpalmer@JPS.NET writes: << As usual I am probably in the minority here, but after so much has been written about the "death of the author" by experimentalists of every stripe, hasn't the invention of the blog merely resuscitated him in the most reactionary way possible, namely, in the form of the personal journal where the "I" is foregrounded in nearly every word? It makes me think that what is being called "new media art" is merely an attempt at backtracking modernity to the bad old ways under the slick guise of a new media facade. Another example of this is the grossly overused word (and one I happen to hate) "immersive" that gets tossed about mainly in relation to virtual reality. I think Brecht and Shlovsky would have had fits over that. O where are the forward-thinking new ideas that would make this brave new media truly the innovation it deserves to be, instead of a safe haven for closetted traditionalists? Controversially yours, mwp >> BUT----the death of the author was never murder. The point was always a new comprehension of authorial source. We now understand, I think, that the author is both a product and producer of language, despite the illusion language provides that an author is somehow and somewhere other. Analysis need not change anything on the page. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 09:54:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Drunken Boat Subject: South Asian Poetry Anthology In-Reply-To: <000101c2a8d9$9d67f280$5214d8cb@ahadada.gol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Folks- I'm helping put together an anthology of South Asian, Middle Eastern and East Asian contemporary poetry, in original English and in translation. I'm responsible for the South Asian portion of this anthology and wonder if you could help spread the word about the project to any writers who might fit the bill (be they inhabitants or descendants of South Asia, poets in their own right or translators). Interested writers can email a group of up to five poems by 1/15/2003 to: shankarr@ccsu.edu Please include a bio and contact information. Regards, Ravi Shankar ed, http://www.drunkenboat.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 13:44:33 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: To blog or not to blog In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" not sure about this, though it's a provocative point of view (as always). for me (yes, me me me, it's all about me), the blog's contingent and unfinished nature can point in 2 directions; one is the "rushing stuff into premature 'publication' before it's been carefully thought thru or worked into a coherent 'argument,'" in which case there's a kind of author-fetishizing frenzy going on (getting your ideas out as *yours*); the other trajectory is the more democratic one, where the proliferation of musings at all levels of sophistication or (in)completion has the power to create a thicket of discourse that can be revolutionary. i'm thinking of the corollary move in academic writing to permit more of the "personal voice" --that is, it can be seen as reactionary in that it ratifies the subject position of the author, but it had its genesis in movements like feminism and minoritarian writing that purposefully set out to undermine the "objectivity" of the authoritative, disembodied expert-writer. At 9:02 AM -0800 12/20/02, MWP wrote: >As usual I am probably in the minority here, but after so much has been >written about the "death of the author" by experimentalists of every stripe, >hasn't the invention of the blog merely resuscitated him in the most >reactionary way possible, namely, in the form of the personal journal where >the "I" is foregrounded in nearly every word? It makes me think that what is >being called "new media art" is merely an attempt at backtracking modernity >to the bad old ways under the slick guise of a new media facade. Another >example of this is the grossly overused word (and one I happen to hate) >"immersive" that gets tossed about mainly in relation to virtual reality. I >think Brecht and Shlovsky would have had fits over that. O where are the >forward-thinking new ideas that would make this brave new media truly the >innovation it deserves to be, instead of a safe haven for closetted >traditionalists? > > >Controversially yours, > >mwp -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 14:01:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Nada Gordon Subject: MORE ULULaTIONS: today's blog Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" MORE ULULATIONS ululate.blogspot.com On today's blog: childhood memories 70s feminism a defense of ornament shakespeare and misogyny men and asperger's syndrome men and the impulse to taxonomize Rabelais (Gargantua's codpiece) Jordan Davis' new book Names mentioned: Elizabeth Barrett Browning Janet Thormann Janet Adelman Jordan Davis Drew Gardner Bruce Andrews Bill Luoma Michael Scharf Tony Torn Nikos A. Salingaros Rabelais William Carlos Williams Louis Zukofsky Lorine Niedecker Tracy Blackmer Rachel Levitsky Adeena Karasick Eddie Berrigan Gary Sullivan Prageeta Sharma Bob Perelman -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 13:28:54 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Prelapsarian Triumvirate (3 Stanza Monte) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Supple enough spectacle, enjoyment in love with manners principles considered these meals juvenile folly writing related by blood to proxy, perhaps dissipations multiplication forced her back, omitting the obstacle dishonor the articles outside ourselves, my works on paper suggested to me by my substitute, dispatches succumbed to utility, liberated now - equivalent advantages spoiled in private, false till yesterday delights spoil magistrates, expenses left the theatre some secret flaw of my own, pulse beating the bushes Sight compasses half-alive joy, a liberty of poetic personae literary merit another old dispute over chiseled phrase noble nerves and monopolists produce permanent truths an old cotton shirt half-heartedly flapping in silken grey skies the beautiful way you speak to me & imagine me a solid score poet, you thirst for handouts but colonists cannot don native themes I know you old boulevardiers, mounted for our edification, spiritual values dance with a clumsy, a sneer at history - it was a sweet old thing, place-seeking hirelings splash the colors literariously the unity of modern times, a light comedy auditions for tragedy A stout gathering near the statue ran through the broomsedge I say they're all statues unmindful of their own stone-quarries imaginative marionettes passed a line of vehicles to self-sacrifice "they couldn't keep awake any longer," she sat in the moonlight drawing quickly to conceal reminiscence, she could recall admiration as a prison, "and what do you do with point of view?" the rest of the day drew against you, you'll do for a day's dinner the moist woods continued, she held trodden endeavors the doorway struck her sharply and was intimately delicate sunrise would make it easier for you, acorns on dead leaves _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 14:38:52 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Ageism in MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is poetry publishing ridden with (reverse?) ageism? It seems very similar to corporate America in this regard: with a few rare exceptions, you don't exist as a poet-author until you're 35 or 40, and then once you "break through," you're swimming in the publication river until you're at least 60. Some say it's experience but couldn't this be merely an apologetic for ageism? Either there are a. ZERO good poets under 25, few good poets under 30, a handful under 35, but oodles and oodles of good poets between 40 and 60 or b. what is good is decided at least in part on the basis of age and/or things related to age (such as professorships, "long-standing relationships", the appearance of "life experience" which is just a euphemism for poetic solipsism/expressionism, the glacial pace of conservative perceptions, etc.) One journal originally came out to address this issue (Combo) and it seems to have tried its best to stick to this original calling to publish poets in their twenties and early thirties. Discuss? (How reflexively aware is the poetry community?) Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !Getting Close Is What! ! We're All About(TM) ! !http://proximate.org/! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 12:28:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: To blog or not to blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm glad Nick weighed in about the blogicization, and it's helpful that he used that self/affect slant that he's good at and that's an ideological/poetics position of his, as I'm not as good at it--- Last night, when I looked at Nada's one-entry blog, strangely, I felt similar emotional regret, nostalgia, disconsolate, etc.,--- not because she was writing poorly or anything like that--- but, a little bit of a feeling of "Another one bites the dust", another Stepford blogger. Pod people become blog people. It's also striking to me that it's, so far, mainly East Coast and New York City poets who are blogging themselves away. Is this ~not~ a post-9/11 effect? The saddened feeling that I felt was that it somehow increases our solitude. I lean toward M. Palmer's (first name?) response: he said "reactionary" and, last night, I thought "counter-revolutionary"; it seemed to me like people were sneaking back in through the "back door" what they'd just thrown out the front; etc. Nick gets to the point: "Why write frequently on the poetics list when you can have your own blog?" My version of that was: why would people ever ~want~ to blog? what could possibly motivate this wave? Jonathan Mayhew's blog is candid: he unsubscribed in reaction to Richard Tylor's anti-Americanism (Mayhew calls him "some poet in New Zealand"). A blog (1) takes conflict-aversion to the next level of removing oneself from the possibly risky environment that many have objected to in the List's social unpredictability (there's a photograph in my family's album of my sister as a child, in a party dress, sitting on the carpeted floor in her bedroom by herself, caught by surprise, playing with all the toys and birthday things she was just given at a birthday party ~in progress~ at that same moment with friends all outside the bedroom whom she'd left behind: blogs remind me of that protective self-insulation)--- you can hold forth without interruption, rebuttal, or disagreement; (2) a blog allows you to be found by a Google search, whereas the Poetics List does not: moreso, by writing about poets and keywords that others would be searching for, people can be lead to discovering you by Googling after those other names; (3) importantly, a blog, with its representational self-depiciton, by returning to all the Foucauldian "Techniques of Self" mechanisms, allows ~self-invention~ --- one is not merely a practicing poet but someone consummately preoccupied with poetry in every waking moment and every thought, the poet who is more than a poet (read: bad faith) (I'm often taken aback at how bloggers ~stick to the subject~ so. Like, ~don't these people ever go to the opera~ [Ron's blog has already stated his antipathy and condemnation of that] or anything?? Isn't there another ~channel~ that they switch over into? Why is their self-portrayal so lacking in normal multifariousness, O'Hara's "grace to live as variously as possible"? It seems like it would be healthier, given this day-by-day/hour-by-hour reality TV look into their solitude, for them to just ~forget about~ being a poet some of the time and change the tune every now and then. I'm amazed at how obsessively they stay on target); . . . These blogs, so far, are by no means the ~Goncourt brothers'~ journals. Regardless of how the bloggers might actually live, these self-portrayals are typically catching them at their most a-social, connecting only through the mediation of what literature they have opinions about. I find that this "self redux" or "pre-self" that's emerging in their self-portraits is curiously lacking in ~sympathy~ to themselves, too. It's lacking in ideology and it's somehow short on compassion for the very pathos that they're revealing about themselves. --- Granted, there was remission from psychosis involved, but if you think of the self-writing in ~Morning of the Poem,~ when James Schuyler returned to mimetic self-depiction after years of writing in less-/other-signifying modes, the ~weakness~ and frailty of self that he had the courage to show: I'll never forget that puffy plastic WonderBread bag he went out to buy for his sandwiches. But how it would tarnish their authority, to make a sandwich (white bread). To return to diary as a literary form is one thing, but to then behave as those these "discourses" and rhetoric were completely natural, in no way to ~wink,~ and to conduct re-construction of self with the same, unconscious prerogatives as the New Formalists . . . ! Of course, there always had to remain a dialectic between Language writing (with its various ~semblables~) and the ongoing momentum of institutionalized normative autobiography, ---if the latter were to disappear, a world overrun with nothing but Language would be bedlam,--- but the blogs, like some of the print essays and interviews that were creeping up to this, seem blithely oblivious to that original ~agonistic~ struggle that these poets' poetry is based on,--- so that ~they themselves~ are simultaneously re-enforcing the very dominances that their poetry is challenging, as if undoing with one hand what you'd just done with the other, language a row of buttons (clothes buttons) that you take off only in order to put it back on again, language the zipper. The positive side is that the pendulum must have swung too far, that it's a free market after all and not capitalism, and that those weren't ~crashes,~ they were "market corrections." I'm trying to see it along the lines that Pierre Joris suggested, a helpful reminder that it's all (maybe) rhizomatic, and not ~defection from a utopian collectivity and the hope of symposium.~ --- I admit to generally skipping over Richard's posts. But I read one the other day (considering what slim pickin's there are, these days), his uncontrollable enthusiasm and curiosity thinking that dcmb had actually spent an evening with the grand J. Ashbery himself, just as Richard's earlier post had fantasized to do. But when Richard, parenthetically, wound up including this little, peripheral detail about having ~lived at home with his mother all his life~ until she died when he was 53, and how he wouldn't listen to ~"dissonant"~ music as much as he might've liked to because the sound of it might've bothered her in the next room--- ---*that's excruciating!* The sympathy just ripped through me. ~This~ is what brought down the project of a poetics community and drove professors of literature into hermetically sealed sound-proof booths?! This is getting like Sullivan in the computerized cartoon ~Monster, Inc.~ where the monsters try to be so scary but they're terrified of a little child. Meanwhile, the bloggers' armor. . . . Will they ever get there? Could they? Or: the self imago in Heather Ramsdell's ~Lost Wax~ who is always rummaging through closets and drawers for a pair of missing socks. But the bloggers don't seem to know where Beckett took things. The narcissistic incapacity of the individual to admit to any vulnerability or weakness completely parallels the current national defense. (Whatever his prose's other flaws, it should be said in favor of Richard's posts that he's never erected a reified concrete self as totem in his writings.) --- But maybe it's positive: maybe these blogged missteps are ~paving the way,~ a gradual loosening of poetry's puritanical rejection of some badly needed ballast of self. I guess I had expected it to be more conjectural and avant-garde, though. Who ~told~ them they are these characters? The use of "personal criticism" by feminists or queer theorists, which Maria rightly mentions,--- wasn't it always an attempt, though, to maintain at all points the ~partial,~ perspectival, therefore qualified and limited nature of all writing, to localize each thought, in refutation of the depersonalized and therefore more effectively dominant (male) voice of criticism (that I often slip into)? It's the difference between fetish and, say, surveyor's tripod, the latter being all about a measurement of ~distance~ between objects. My myopia, my color blindness. The "personal criticism" that sticks in my mind, for example, was queer theorist D.A. Miller putting himself completely on the line in ~The Novel and The Police~ by describing an appointment with a psychiatrist who diagnosed him as Borderline,--- (then, ~what's the rest of the book!?~ Auto-symptomatology?) or his ambiguous, seemingly gratuitous self-portraiture in the Barthes book as on his back doing bench press in the gym (man of steel, or vain conformist? half-naked and at risk of the barbell he was holding falling down to crush him if his partner slipped). (I don't recall if it was word of mouth or in his writing, but I also remember his "personal criticism" including his fear of becoming the man with the poodle and beret, that somehow stereotypes are true.) Yes, Richard, yes. He had a small rose watercolor by Pierre-Joseph Redouté on his wall. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 13:01:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: To blog or not to blog Comments: To: Jeffrey Jullich In-Reply-To: <20021220202805.64751.qmail@web40808.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Jeffrey - I just read your post on blogs quickly - but thank you. I share a sympathy with much of your thinking here. "Blogs" do strike me as old-fashioned castles (aloof from the bog, draw bridge access). No challenge, no outside editorial/critical function (unless pre-selected quotes permitted into the space. Ron S tries, but he is still his own arbiter). I think blogs are good for certain things that I won't go into here. But I think a listserv - until it exhausts itself or self-destructs - is similar to the old fashioned "Commons" - the place where community(ies) can be argued out and celebrated - a place of contingency ("as variously as possible" or called for). A place of risk, ideally a safe one (i.e. sans gov surveillance, coming in the next edition!!??) Thanks again, Stephen Vincent on 12/20/02 12:28 PM, Jeffrey Jullich at jeffreyjullich@YAHOO.COM wrote: > I'm glad Nick weighed in about the blogicization, and > it's helpful that he used that self/affect slant that > he's good at and that's an ideological/poetics > position of his, as I'm not as good at it--- Last > night, when I looked at Nada's one-entry blog, > strangely, I felt similar emotional regret, nostalgia, > disconsolate, etc.,--- not because she was writing > poorly or anything like that--- but, a little bit of a > feeling of "Another one bites the dust", another > Stepford blogger. Pod people become blog people. > It's also striking to me that it's, so far, mainly > East Coast and New York City poets who are blogging > themselves away. Is this ~not~ a post-9/11 effect? > The saddened feeling that I felt was that it somehow > increases our solitude. > > I lean toward M. Palmer's (first name?) response: he > said "reactionary" and, last night, I thought > "counter-revolutionary"; it seemed to me like people > were sneaking back in through the "back door" what > they'd just thrown out the front; etc. Nick gets to > the point: "Why write frequently on the poetics list > when you can have your own blog?" My version of that > was: why would people ever ~want~ to blog? what could > possibly motivate this wave? Jonathan Mayhew's blog > is candid: he unsubscribed in reaction to Richard > Tylor's anti-Americanism (Mayhew calls him "some poet > in New Zealand"). A blog (1) takes conflict-aversion > to the next level of removing oneself from the > possibly risky environment that many have objected to > in the List's social unpredictability (there's a > photograph in my family's album of my sister as a > child, in a party dress, sitting on the carpeted floor > in her bedroom by herself, caught by surprise, playing > with all the toys and birthday things she was just > given at a birthday party ~in progress~ at that same > moment with friends all outside the bedroom whom she'd > left behind: blogs remind me of that protective > self-insulation)--- you can hold forth without > interruption, rebuttal, or disagreement; (2) a blog > allows you to be found by a Google search, whereas the > Poetics List does not: moreso, by writing about poets > and keywords that others would be searching for, > people can be lead to discovering you by Googling > after those other names; (3) importantly, a blog, with > its representational self-depiciton, by returning to > all the Foucauldian "Techniques of Self" mechanisms, > allows ~self-invention~ --- one is not merely a > practicing poet but someone consummately preoccupied > with poetry in every waking moment and every thought, > the poet who is more than a poet (read: bad faith) > (I'm often taken aback at how bloggers ~stick to the > subject~ so. Like, ~don't these people ever go to the > opera~ [Ron's blog has already stated his antipathy > and condemnation of that] or anything?? Isn't there > another ~channel~ that they switch over into? Why is > their self-portrayal so lacking in normal > multifariousness, O'Hara's "grace to live as variously > as possible"? It seems like it would be healthier, > given this day-by-day/hour-by-hour reality TV look > into their solitude, for them to just ~forget about~ > being a poet some of the time and change the tune > every now and then. I'm amazed at how obsessively > they stay on target); . . . > > These blogs, so far, are by no means the ~Goncourt > brothers'~ journals. Regardless of how the bloggers > might actually live, these self-portrayals are > typically catching them at their most a-social, > connecting only through the mediation of what > literature they have opinions about. > > I find that this "self redux" or "pre-self" that's > emerging in their self-portraits is curiously lacking > in ~sympathy~ to themselves, too. It's lacking in > ideology and it's somehow short on compassion for the > very pathos that they're revealing about themselves. > --- Granted, there was remission from psychosis > involved, but if you think of the self-writing in > ~Morning of the Poem,~ when James Schuyler returned to > mimetic self-depiction after years of writing in > less-/other-signifying modes, the ~weakness~ and > frailty of self that he had the courage to show: I'll > never forget that puffy plastic WonderBread bag he > went out to buy for his sandwiches. But how it would > tarnish their authority, to make a sandwich (white > bread). To return to diary as a literary form is one > thing, but to then behave as those these "discourses" > and rhetoric were completely natural, in no way to > ~wink,~ and to conduct re-construction of self with > the same, unconscious prerogatives as the New > Formalists . . . ! > > Of course, there always had to remain a dialectic > between Language writing (with its various > ~semblables~) and the ongoing momentum of > institutionalized normative autobiography, ---if the > latter were to disappear, a world overrun with nothing > but Language would be bedlam,--- but the blogs, like > some of the print essays and interviews that were > creeping up to this, seem blithely oblivious to that > original ~agonistic~ struggle that these poets' poetry > is based on,--- so that ~they themselves~ are > simultaneously re-enforcing the very dominances that > their poetry is challenging, as if undoing with one > hand what you'd just done with the other, language a > row of buttons (clothes buttons) that you take off > only in order to put it back on again, language the > zipper. > > The positive side is that the pendulum must have swung > too far, that it's a free market after all and not > capitalism, and that those weren't ~crashes,~ they > were "market corrections." I'm trying to see it > along the lines that Pierre Joris suggested, a helpful > reminder that it's all (maybe) rhizomatic, and not > ~defection from a utopian collectivity and the hope of > symposium.~ > > --- I admit to generally skipping over Richard's > posts. But I read one the other day (considering what > slim pickin's there are, these days), his > uncontrollable enthusiasm and curiosity thinking that > dcmb had actually spent an evening with the grand J. > Ashbery himself, just as Richard's earlier post had > fantasized to do. But when Richard, parenthetically, > wound up including this little, peripheral detail > about having ~lived at home with his mother all his > life~ until she died when he was 53, and how he > wouldn't listen to ~"dissonant"~ music as much as he > might've liked to because the sound of it might've > bothered her in the next room--- ---*that's > excruciating!* The sympathy just ripped through me. > ~This~ is what brought down the project of a poetics > community and drove professors of literature into > hermetically sealed sound-proof booths?! This is > getting like Sullivan in the computerized cartoon > ~Monster, Inc.~ where the monsters try to be so scary > but they're terrified of a little child. Meanwhile, > the bloggers' armor. . . . Will they ever get there? > Could they? Or: the self imago in Heather Ramsdell's > ~Lost Wax~ who is always rummaging through closets and > drawers for a pair of missing socks. But the bloggers > don't seem to know where Beckett took things. The > narcissistic incapacity of the individual to admit to > any vulnerability or weakness completely parallels the > current national defense. (Whatever his prose's other > flaws, it should be said in favor of Richard's posts > that he's never erected a reified concrete self as > totem in his writings.) --- But maybe it's positive: > maybe these blogged missteps are ~paving the way,~ a > gradual loosening of poetry's puritanical rejection of > some badly needed ballast of self. I guess I had > expected it to be more conjectural and avant-garde, > though. Who ~told~ them they are these characters? > The use of "personal criticism" by feminists or queer > theorists, which Maria rightly mentions,--- wasn't it > always an attempt, though, to maintain at all points > the ~partial,~ perspectival, therefore qualified and > limited nature of all writing, to localize each > thought, in refutation of the depersonalized and > therefore more effectively dominant (male) voice of > criticism (that I often slip into)? It's the > difference between fetish and, say, surveyor's tripod, > the latter being all about a measurement of ~distance~ > between objects. My myopia, my color blindness. The > "personal criticism" that sticks in my mind, for > example, was queer theorist D.A. Miller putting > himself completely on the line in ~The Novel and The > Police~ by describing an appointment with a > psychiatrist who diagnosed him as Borderline,--- > (then, ~what's the rest of the book!?~ > Auto-symptomatology?) or his ambiguous, seemingly > gratuitous self-portraiture in the Barthes book as on > his back doing bench press in the gym (man of steel, > or vain conformist? half-naked and at risk of the > barbell he was holding falling down to crush him if > his partner slipped). (I don't recall if it was word > of mouth or in his writing, but I also remember his > "personal criticism" including his fear of becoming > the man with the poodle and beret, that somehow > stereotypes are true.) > > Yes, Richard, yes. He had a small rose watercolor by > Pierre-Joseph Redout? on his wall. > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 16:20:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nada Gordon Subject: blog on! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Oh jeez, Michael, Maria, Jeffrey, Nick, all, I spent all day working on my blog entry and now I have to respond to this little controversy, eek, well, OK, a few points in response to the following: from M. Palmer: >As usual I am probably in the minority here, but after so much has been >written about the "death of the author" by experimentalists of every stripe, >hasn't the invention of the blog merely resuscitated him in the most >reactionary way possible, namely, in the form of the personal journal where >the "I" is foregrounded in nearly every word? It makes me think that what is >being called "new media art" is merely an attempt at backtracking modernity >to the bad old ways under the slick guise of a new media facade. Another >example of this is the grossly overused word (and one I happen to hate) >"immersive" that gets tossed about mainly in relation to virtual reality. I >think Brecht and Shlovsky would have had fits over that. O where are the >forward-thinking new ideas that would make this brave new media truly the >innovation it deserves to be, instead of a safe haven for closetted >traditionalists? 1) Just because zebra experimentalists have written about SQUARE QUOTES the death of the author SCARE QUOTES doesn't mean that I accept it as doctrine or find it helpful to my writing. Rather, my writing feels more like the testimony of the expressive subject's desire -- and struggle, given all sorts of antagonisms-- to thrive. My attitude might be summed up as "I'M DOING IT BECAUSE I WANT TO AND NOT BECAUSE YOU TOLD ME TO." I would like you to take notice of the pronoun that follows "resuscitated" in the quote above. That pronoun is precisely one of the reasons that I was moved to blog. There is no reason why my "gurlesque" (thanks, Arielle) perceptions and opinions can't occupy as much cyberspace as the patriarchs'. I haven't heard the term "immersive" bandied about, because I don't read any pomo net theory, but I don't have any trouble with the term per se. Virtual media *is* absorbing and oceanic. I know because I fell in love in it. Am I supposed to keep myself from swimming in electronic amniotic fluid because I'm afraid of what Brecht (whose poetics I admire but am in practice quite opposite from) or Shklovsky (that's with a "k", darling. did you notice that he blurbed my new book?) might think? What is it you want from writers? Everyone in grey headscarves? If I dont wear a grey headscarf does that make me a reactionary? from M. Damon > >not sure about this, though it's a provocative point of view (as >always). for me (yes, me me me, it's all about me), the blog's >contingent and unfinished nature can point in 2 directions; one is >the "rushing stuff into premature 'publication' before it's been >carefully thought thru or worked into a coherent 'argument,'" in >which case there's a kind of author-fetishizing frenzy going on >(getting your ideas out as *yours*); the other trajectory is the more >democratic one, where the proliferation of musings at all levels of >sophistication or (in)completion has the power to create a thicket of >discourse that can be revolutionary. i'm thinking of the corollary >move in academic writing to permit more of the "personal voice" >--that is, it can be seen as reactionary in that it ratifies the >subject position of the author, but it had its genesis in movements >like feminism and minoritarian writing that purposefully set out to >undermine the "objectivity" of the authoritative, disembodied >expert-writer. Maria, I'm sure I want to go in both of the directions you mentioned above. "Sloppy in the most available way" they once called a review of mine on the Brit-po list. I consider that an unintended compliment. As far as "coherent arguments" go, I have REALLY MIXED FEELINGS about *the logos* -- which should emerge as not uninteresting agonistics (you'll see, Jeffrey, I promise you I won't get all over-explanatory) on the blog if I actually have the energy to keep it up. And I pledge to do my utmost to undermine the objectivity and authority of everything including myself. I love the THICKET OF DISCOURSE image. The author as BAMBI. from J. Jullich >My version of that >was: why would people ever ~want~ to blog? Your image of your sister at the birthday party was right on. Look, on my kindergarten report card I got an A (always) on all of my developmental skills except "Plays well with others." There I got an S for sometimes. I really do like to play *in my own room*. Also, I would not expect a list as large or as contentious as this to indulge the kinds of personal musings I extrude. And I do feel that conflict aversion is part of the attraction. Posting on lists can lead to all kinds of nasty responses -- sometimes even scary ones-- which I don't particularly need in my life. If that's community then I don't want it. But I do love having guests over to my house. You know? Jeffrey, I don't know how you can say I've "bitten the dust". I (almost) never post my opinions to this list. To me, it doesn't feel like the appropriate space to do that. There was, of course, a great deal more to respond to in your post but I just can't do it now, my arms hurt terribly. Now I'm off to go see a movie! (and you think bloggers don't get around...) Stay tuned to ULULATIONS! http://ululate.blogspot.com love, nada -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 17:38:59 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: My New Flog Spot MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What is a "Weblog?" A weblog is a fun way to convey information about yourself. All the thoughts I can't fit into my comics, I can relay via the "weblog" technology containted herein. On my weblog you will find my thoughts, dreams, and... fantasies. I will try to keep this weblog up-to-date! Thanks for reading! http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/weblog1.html (from the creator of Get Your War On) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 15:48:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: To blog or not to blog In-Reply-To: <20021220202805.64751.qmail@web40808.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII I sure don't see the point of all this agonizing. The blog-space no more reifies a reactionary subject position than do any number of author-centric productions: essays and other modalities of critical prose as well as, less insistently but no less pervasively, any book of poetry or journal publication with an author's name attached to it. Isn't Foucault's notion of the author function just a means of embedding the effect in society and history, rather than in an unknowable/fetishized interiority? Barthes in "Death of the Author" writes, "[W]riting is the destruction of every voice, of every point of origin. Writing is that neutral, composite, oblique space where our subject slips away, the negative where all identity is lost, starting with the very identity of the body writing." He did not write, Therefore let us have no more authors. In fact *Balzac* is his great example both here and in S/Z -- and he expressly says, "As soon as a fact is narrated no longer with a view to acting directly on reality but intransitively, that is to say, finally outside of any function other than that of the very practice of the symbol itself, this disconnection occurs, the voice loses its origin, the author enters into his own death, writing begins" -- Barthes (like Foucault) seems insistent that this is a new perspective on extant practices, not a prolegomenon to the overthrow of the subject. Of course one can write out of an awareness of "the voice losing its origin," and many great post-deconstruction works of poetry do exactly this (Coolidge's Crystal Text being a perfect example that springs to mind, among many others). But they do not therefore posit a post-authorial universe. Neither do the posts to this list, though they do constitute a wonderfully adaptive social space. How is it that blogging gets singled out for critique? Doesn't the phenomenon, inasmuch as it's a subject/offshoot of the list, instead extend and enrich what's happening here? I for one am energized by projects like Patrick's Proximate site that play in the space usually occupied by reflexive expressionism. But Jeffrey, how is it that you want to see poets letting their hair down (or putting it up) to go to the opera, but not settling down into a casual self-identical mode of commentary in the relatively informal space of the blog, a mode (disregarding subject matter) which is pretty indistinguishable from that of most of us in our non-vatic everyday self-representations, at the bank ("I would like to withdraw money from my account, please, although admittedly when I say 'I' what I refer to is always already only a thread in the self-annihilating web of the langue"), on the phone with mom, in a job interview, etc. etc.? I don't see how this can't co-exist with other stances. Best, Damian On Fri, 20 Dec 2002 12:28:05 -0800 Jeffrey Jullich wrote: > I'm glad Nick weighed in about the blogicization, and > it's helpful that he used that self/affect slant that > he's good at and that's an ideological/poetics > position of his, as I'm not as good at it--- Last > night, when I looked at Nada's one-entry blog, > strangely, I felt similar emotional regret, nostalgia, > disconsolate, etc.,--- not because she was writing > poorly or anything like that--- but, a little bit of a > feeling of "Another one bites the dust", another > Stepford blogger. Pod people become blog people. > It's also striking to me that it's, so far, mainly > East Coast and New York City poets who are blogging > themselves away. Is this ~not~ a post-9/11 effect? > The saddened feeling that I felt was that it somehow > increases our solitude. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 19:36:22 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Space in languages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This will be of special interest to the post-projectivists amongst us, Ron Space in languages: linguistic systems and cognitive categories Paris, 7-8 February 2003 Ecole Normale Superieure (salle Dussane, to be confirmed) 45 rue d'Ulm, 75005 Paris International conference organized by the research group Linguistic diversity and change: cognitive implications with financial support from the Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique Entrance is free, no registration As illustrated by the Kantian tradition and by a number of cognitive theories, space has been often viewed as a universal cognitive primitive, an a priori form of intuition' that conditions all of our experience. From this point of view, it is of particular interest to study the linguistic expression of space, since languages seem to capture and to make explicit the constraints of experience on the construction of spatial reference. At the same time, language confers to spatial representations the property of referential 'detachability', that distinguishes these representations from those that are produced by the perceptual experience of space. This fundamental property of language allows speakers to dissociate and to choose among different components of spatial reference, as well as to use spatial morphemes to express other and/or more abstract meanings, such as temporal, causal or argumentative relations. A question then arises concerning the primitive and generative nature of the category of space in languages. To what extent does space, as it is linguistically encoded, reflect forms of perceptual experience and which aspects of this experience do languages encode? Does space constitute a pure and primitive category from which other linguistic meanings are then derived? This question has been raised by cognitive grammars in general and by metaphor theory in particular. It is also particularly relevant in the light of numerous derivations that can be observed in the history of languages, often indicating that a given term evolves from a concrete spatial meaning to an abstract discourse one. What are then the cognitive mechanisms that allow these transitions? Inversely, some recent linguistic analyses argue that spatial values are neither basic nor even purely spatial, but rather that spatial terms always carry other values, for example related to the functional properties of objects, their force or resistance, or the goals towards which speakers construct spatial relations in their utterances. According to this conception, space in language is therefore not a primitive category, but already the result of some construction. What types of evidence can be brought to bear on these different conceptions? Furthermore, in the last twenty years, many studies in linguistics, psycholinguistics, and cultural anthropology have revealed the existence of rather varied spatial systems across languages and cultures. These variations concern, for example, the nature of the linguistic devices expressing spatial information (e.g. verbs, affixes, classifiers, particles), the particular distinctions they encode, and the reference systems that are used by speakers (absolute, egocentric, relative). In addition, various studies show that linguistic and cultural systems determine - at least partially - the nature and cognitive accessibility of the information selected by speakers, thereby casting some doubts on the supposedly universal properties of the category of space. This evidence then raises questions concerning the impact of linguistic categorization on perception, as well as the existence of a single (a-modal) system or of two distinct (linguistic vs. perceptual and motor) systems of spatial representations. The study of space can then be reframed in terms of several fundamental questions, that will be addressed during this conference from the point of view of linguistics (typology, diachrony, sign-language), cognitive anthropology, the philosophy of language, psycholinguistics, and neurosciences. List of participants and papers to be presented The precise program will be announced in January Melissa Bowerman (Max-Planck Institute for Psycholinguistics, Nijmegen) Constructing language-specific spatial categories in first language acquisition Pierre Cadiot (Universite de Paris 8, Laboratoire LATTICE) Franck Lebas (Universite Clermont-Ferrand 2) The French movement verb MONTER as a challenge to the status of spatial reference Denis Creissels (Laboratoire Dynamique du Langage, Universite Lyon 2) Encoding the distinction between localization, source of a movement and direction of a movement: a typological study Michel Denis (LIMSI, Orsay) Deficits in spatial discourse: the case of Alzheimer patients Jerome Dokic & Elisabeth Pacherie (Institut Jean Nicod, EHESS Paris) Molyneux's question and frames of reference Colette Grinevald (Laboratoire Dynamique du Langage, Universite Lyon 2) The expression of static location in a typological perspective Maya Hickmann (Laboratoire Cognition et Developpement, Universite deParis 5) The relativity of motion in first language acquisition Anetta Kopecka (Laboratoire Dynamique du Langage, Universite Lyon 2) The semantic structure of prefixed motion verbs in French: typological perspectives Barbara Landau (Department of Cognitive Science, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore) (De)Coupling of spatial language and spatial cognition Alain Peyraube (Centre de Recherche sur les Langues d'Asie Orientale, Paris) On the history of place words and localizers in Chinese: a cognitive approach Marie-Anne Sallandre (Universite Paris 8) Iconicity in discourse, the role of space in French sign language Chris Sinha (Institute of Language and Communication, University of Southern Denmark) Mapping and construal in spatial language and conceptualization: language variation and acquisition. Dan Slobin (Department of Psychology University of California, Berkeley) What makes manner of motion salient? Leonard Talmy (State University of New York at Buffalo) to be confirmed Claude Vandeloise (State University of Louisiana, B=E2ton Rouge) Are there spatial prepositions? Yves-Marie Visetti (Laboratoire LATTICE, ENS Paris) Semantics and its models of perception and action Organizing committee Maya Hickmann, Stephane Robert, Yves-Marie Visetti Contact: secretariat.tul@ivry.cnrs.fr ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 16:46:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Re: To blog or not to blog In-Reply-To: <20021220202805.64751.qmail@web40808.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit To bloggies and antibloggies alike - If you can only stand to read one more comment on the blog, read JJ's, not mine, as it is much more thought-provoking than what I have to say. But if you are a glutton for punishment, continue on. . . I agree with WJA that the death of the author can be less like murder than an Osiris-like scattering into many disparate pieces (Pessoa, etc.). There's more than one way to kill an author, and I think we definitely should try them all, especially now that we have a new medium, the Internet, that can facilitate such a dispersal. I am interested in seeing that art moves forward in its aims and not remain static or go backwards. I will always find those artists who are pushing the envelope more interesting than those who cavort in the footsteps of the past. The "death of the author" is a fairly well accepted notion, but if one wishes to critique it in favor of something that moves art to a new level, I am open to suggestions. Playing the gender card is bogus. There are plenty of radical women artists who meet the "death of the author" criterion. In fact I think that women are generally more radical than the men as far as today's poetry and art is concerned. I therefore don't buy it when one leans on one's femininity as an excuse to cling to outmoded notions. My use of the word "reactionary" was perhaps a misstep, as it has unpleasant political connotations. (But then so does "radical". . . Eh, it's hopeless!) I find not a little uncondescending the suggestion that traditional methods of artistic expression offer women and minorities an acceptable means to compete with first world male-dominated discoveries. Especially since we now have a large number of very fine women and minority artists in all fields who show no desire to stay stuck in the past in the name of a rickety feminist or multicultural ethics. (What is the state of radical feminism today, anyway? I sense that it is fairly moribund.) Women artists have quickly caught up and indeed are often surpassing the men in artistic innovation, and that is to the benefit of all. > the other trajectory [for a blog] is the more democratic one, where the proliferation of musings at all levels of sophistication or (in)completion has the power to create a thicket of discourse that can be revolutionary Very interesting, but I don't see what would be revolutionary about it (nor democratic). Journals have been around for centuries. (And constitute some of my favorite reading. Thoreau, for instance.) Journal jottings "qua" art might be worth exploring as an idea, as long as one evades the usual autobiographical trappings. But no matter how many bells and whistles you tack onto it, a blog is a blog is a blog, i.e., a form of writing grounded in ego and reason and the urge towards polish and perfection (for even if the prose is not polished, that is its dream). I oppose its continuance not because I wish to impose a culture of gray headscarves upon the world but just the opposite, because I value a culture that thinks and pushes ideas forwards in a whole variety of colors and stripes. Traditionalism is as much an "ism" as modernism, postmodernism etc. Favoring one ideology over the other is not a way of imposing one's views on the world but of making one's alliances known. Minor aside: One can find plenty of places on the web where "Shlovsky" is the accepted spelling. I know because I checked. Okay I shot my wad for today. Are you happy now? m(ark)wp ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 11:29:45 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: komninos zervos Subject: Re: To blog or not to blog In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7F0C75E0; boundary="=======4514A29=======" --=======4514A29======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7F0C75E0; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit i like blogs. i don't see their authors as being of the pre-barthesian single authority/absolute truth variety. the bloggers are saying 'here is what i think, here is what i have found, read it if you wish'. the writing, the content is more of-the-moment, you read it, you move on, like so much of what we experience when surfing this medium. BUT i have little time to check all the blogs i would like to keep up to date with, there are too many, and there will be more. it is hard enough to keep up with the threads in ubpoetics and webartery, 2 lists i belong to. does anyone know of a blog tracking/search engine which i can configure to search nominated blogs regularly, look for key words i have nominated, and report via email when a topic is updated? (ie something akin to the nytimes tracking service) komninos --=======4514A29======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7F0C75E0 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 17/12/02 --=======4514A29=======-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 17:39:33 -0800 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Re: To blog or Nada blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh horrors! Ego and reason! Oh horrors! The urge to polish and perfect! Oh horrors! To dream! Perhaps to sleep! Oh horrors that a woman may do this! That a man may! Thank you for this lucidly egoless, irrational anti-blogness C MWP wrote: > To bloggies and antibloggies alike - But no matter how many bells and whistles you tack onto it, a blog is a blog is a blog, i.e., a form of writing grounded in ego and reason and the urge towards polish and perfection (for even if the prose is not polished, that is its dream). > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 20:56:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: *Please* don't feed the jackals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed This list is a great place to get a headache and little else. Why must Nada defend her right to have a weblog? No one here gave Ron Silliman a hard time when his began. Get back to your hibernating or wait for other juicy carrion. --Jim Behrle _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 limited-time offer: Join now and get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_newmsn8ishere_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 18:46:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Rathmann Subject: Re: something happens in the head In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mark D, You complicate my speculations, and I can't answer you, so I'll just describe my reaction to the Heliczer lines. When I read the first of the strophes, I am a little bored. You call the poet "fluidly expansive," but that is putting a nice spin on "formless and way too long." Our brains will go to ridiculous lengths to make sense of what poets feed them. But, for my brain at least, there has to be some kind of form, and at least the sentence is a form of thought, even if the thought is a flagrant idiocy. So, what you deride as a recognition of the "familiar," I think of instead as the recognition that the poet is trying to satisfy the reader's possibly addict-like craving for intelligible form. It may be a new form, or a broken form, but when the reader recognizes it then he/she begins to trust that, however confusing the writing, there will be a payoff at the end. I don't really trust that Heliczer knows where he is going, based on what you quoted. I sort of think to myself: shit, some of these images are OK, but it looks like I'm going to have to do _all_ the work explaining what this means. We are good at that kind of speculative interpretation. But some people enjoy it more than others. Or perhaps I will enjoy this poet when I read more of him. I think rigor, by the way, usually means something closer to the inflexibility of death (call it theory-death) when the talk is about art. Are you eager to define all of your terms? Even if you do, they will still be your terms, your abstractions. Andy --------- bird burgeoning sky frozen turmoil in the spawning grounds curved over the dusty line no impressionistic of pretty girls at street corners my fathers body lies in this lava hill where beggars and sea urchins are lapped by the lavender tongues of dog angels side walk painting of pastel chapels begs coin of the finest mint enamelled with verdigris my fathers body lies naked in his icon of blue jeans run soft white feel flower in the bones center the bone truly running up your back ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 21:19:37 -0800 Reply-To: adeniro@rocketmail.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan DeNiro Subject: Re: To blog or not to blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A blog is not a literary style. A blog is a string of code. A technology. Which doesn't mean that, similar to books or alphabets or other technologies, a blog doesn't encourage, coax and invite certain types of narratives to be created with it. Simply through the nature of its interface. But there's no reason that these conventions can be thwarted, or ignored altogether. And like I said in my last post, blogs are eminently customizable, and have the potential for great fluidity. It need not be a form that is isolatory, or rooted in theself. Although appearances of pure sincerity can be deceptive. Teenagers, e.g., are much more astute readers and writers with these things than we often give them credit for, and are able to negotiate these nuances. No scientific data on that; just an observation. And someone said a little while back that somehow a listserv like this is much more of a common space (a hasty paraphrase, my apologies). First of all, it takes about 2 minutes of installing a code (even in Blogger) for a detailed commenting system on any blog, so as to provide connective tissue with any readership that might be out there. But also...what kind of interface does this listserv provide to the larger world? Why is it problematic that search engines can plumb blogs? Did I miss something, is this an intranet or text-based closed circuit tv?(And if it is, should it be this way?) "Common" spaces like this, much like some such areas in real life, have their own patrollings as well. There is nothing to suggest that, for some people, this listserv cannot be (sometimes deeply) intimidating, or isolatory. Best, Alan ===== Alan DeNiro Editor, Taverner's Koans (1-room schoolhouse of experimental poetics) http://www.taverners-koans.com Correspondent, Ptarmigan http://ptarmigan.blogspot.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 00:44:13 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nuyopoman@AOL.COM Subject: Burns Supper Comments: cc: KALAMU@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Poets House & City Lore Present a Burns Supper Some hae meat and canna eat, And some wad eat that want it; But we hae meat, and we can eat, And sae the Lord be thankit. The Selkirk Grace Robert Burns Please join us for a unique evening of poetry, song, good company and fine cheer. A mid-winter hearth with Edinburgh's balladeer Ed Miller, including piping in the haggas, Burns' recitations, plenty of Scotch, and, of course, "Auld Lang Syne" -- along with a repast that will warm the cockles of your heart. Burns Suppers have been part of Scottish culture since a few years after the death of that nation's most famous bard in 1796. When: January 12th, 2003 @ 7:00PM Where: The Bowery Poetry Club, 308 Bowery, between Bleecker & Houston Cost: $100/person For more information, tickets, and reservations call Poets House, 212-431-7920, ext. 15. A benefit for Poets House & City Lore in support of the 2003 People's Poetry Gathering ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 01:03:07 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Ageism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/20/02 2:38:45 PM, patrick@PROXIMATE.ORG writes: << Is poetry publishing ridden with (reverse?) ageism? It seems very similar to corporate America in this regard: with a few rare exceptions, you don't exist as a poet-author until you're 35 or 40, and then once you "break through," you're swimming in the publication river until you're at least 60. Some say it's experience but couldn't this be merely an apologetic for ageism? Either there are a. ZERO good poets under 25, few good poets under 30, a handful under 35, but oodles and oodles of good poets between 40 and 60 or b. what is good is decided at least in part on the basis of age and/or things related to age (such as professorships, "long-standing relationships", the appearance of "life experience" which is just a euphemism for poetic solipsism/expressionism, the glacial pace of conservative perceptions, etc.) One journal originally came out to address this issue (Combo) and it seems to have tried its best to stick to this original calling to publish poets in their twenties and early thirties. Discuss? (How reflexively aware is the poetry community?) Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org >> I'm reminded of that movie, New York Stories, the segment starring Nick Nolte especially. His assistant asks him if he thinks her painting is good, if he thinks she'll ever be good. "Just tell me!" she screams. "C'mon, I can take it." Nolte, the famous artist, replies, "You're twenty-two, so who knows?" Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 01:23:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: piero heliczer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Andrew, just to put my 2cents in on yr heliczer conversation for a moment: you wrote: >... so I'll just describe my >reaction to the Heliczer lines. When I read the first of the strophes, I >am a >little bored. You call the poet "fluidly expansive," but that is putting a >nice >spin on "formless and way too long." Our brains will go to ridiculous >lengths >to make sense of what poets feed them. But, for my brain at least, there >has to >be some kind of form, and at least the sentence is a form of thought, even >if >the thought is a flagrant idiocy. I want to address this for a minute, but it might help to have an entire poem of heliczer's to look at... so here's one (from _a purchase in the white botanica, the collected poetry of piero heliczer_ 2001 Granary) mantis I. there is an open scar on my right hand which i purposely keep unbandaged when i shake hands with some one i am giving them perhaps more of my self than they expected is that the right thing to do the chestnuts burgeon above walks in their parasols green buddhashade II. the moment of consent when we stop the bicycles and go off in the hay stalks my eyes are pumice waiting for this moment now we can undress there is meaning no more sinus etcetera so so pretty like finding money on the street now bird songs bamboo wood feet this old pedals reliquary now the spokes sound like pine needles against the sun you have such long eye lashes to shade your violet from the sun the foot step sinks in adams mountain little stones grow on stems of sand is it my blooming on old silk that is dull purple in color i am of no use to this girl like a prophet to his people a pebble called the glazed insect rattling in a childs bone do you call these things hands gritty water on the coin but that is what i wait for and my dogs ears scarred with cicadas as any stone can be chosen and erected as an idol and worshipped and worthy of worship III. i cant help but give my self away lately i fall violently ill every time i meet a girl girls playing doctor we slept on beds saved from the canal the rafters like pavillions the morning would have touched them all around like a magic trick a very holy cloth of a blanket still smelling slightly of some martyrs urine le bonheur fait cri cri sand embryos on the beach dust babies under the bed a girl tying her hair thinking about the sea oily water swanned by old papers _____________________________ okay, i'm sure it's not fair of me to talk about this in light of what I quoted from you above, as I haven't been following yr back and forth, but I will say that heliczer interests me so much precisely because he has created a form/voice/syntax that I'm able to enter into. And not that I mind doing the brain-crunch work (in fact, I get so much more out of poems I have to work with) but heliczer really doesn't require it. I float with him and his wounded honesty. That's all, really I just wanted to type this poem... noah _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 limited-time offer: Join now and get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_newmsn8ishere_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 20:57:18 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: To blog or not to blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bil I tend to aggree. What I have seen of Blogs so far intrigues me: Idont have a problem with the author being dead or otehr....I dont think the author will ever be absent: more likely we simply have the author less "centred and teh work more fragmented and so on: my Infinte Poem - whose concpet in some ways was preemted by e-poetry and the possibilities through vispo and other things for a multi meidal and a dialogic and cooperative and inclusive right through to (all shades between) something that is exclusive and singular and totally foregrounds the author and ...hence tere are infinite possbilities (theoretically ..the only limitation on inclusivity is space and the time of those "running the show" - as I was saying, my Inf. Poem "discovered" that (or I found ) that despite attempts (admittedly not rigorous) to side-step the author and to move toward inclusivity and constant movement and change (at least conceptually, as a "perpetual posibility" which may or may not -it is right now!- be being enacted or is flowing,is...is in fact, ongoing it is, is....) : that a kind of voice still reamined..the trace of self: not always or possibly not ever desirable to eliminate the author...in fact what if we do: there are then "many authors" and ithis is good and many authors of course implies that each of the many is unique...this , to repeat may or may not (why should it?) lead to exclusivity ro "elitism"...the only problem is thereality that not all of us can access ro have the abilities to make Blogs...but that also applies to other ways of publishing (becuase a person cant self-publish even one copy of a book is unfortunate but not an argument against pubkishing or that such pubishing of some other is not "fair"). I feel that Blogs and Lists and are just new tools which one can use or not, ignore or not .....by and large they can be enjoyable to their author(s) and readers ...a complete self-indulgence (why not? who cares?) or a part of a wider more cooperative and inclusive "project". My only problem is that as I have bifocals for purely practical reasons I dont liek reading or a long time off a computer screen and prefer reading something such as a book or whatever - and just now I cant afford a very good printer so it takes ages to down load stuf for me to read properly - .but that personal difficulty aside: I put the case more for the Blog to be than not. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 6:34 AM Subject: Re: To blog or not to blog > In a message dated 12/20/02 12:00:22 PM, mpalmer@JPS.NET writes: > > << As usual I am probably in the minority here, but after so much has been > written about the "death of the author" by experimentalists of every stripe, > hasn't the invention of the blog merely resuscitated him in the most > reactionary way possible, namely, in the form of the personal journal where > the "I" is foregrounded in nearly every word? It makes me think that what is > being called "new media art" is merely an attempt at backtracking modernity > to the bad old ways under the slick guise of a new media facade. Another ............................. > > Controversially yours, > > mwp >> > > BUT----the death of the author was never murder. The point was always a new > comprehension of authorial source. We now understand, I think, that the > author is both a product and producer of language, despite the illusion > language provides that an author is somehow and somewhere other. Analysis > need not change anything on the page. Best, Bill > > WilliamJamesAustin.com > KojaPress.com > Amazon.com > BarnesandNoble.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 03:08:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Requiem in Honor of the Coming Dead MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Requiem in Honor of the Coming Dead Forte Sub Bass Bass Coupler Echo Piano Bourdon Sub French Echo Harp Bourdon Aeoline French Forte Horn Bass Harp Coupler Aeoline Piano Melodia Melodia Delicato Delicato Celeste Celeste Viola Viola Vox Vox Humana Humana Treble Treble Requiem: Mouths 35 that minutes. ||begin Mouths to that speak. ||begin Bowing to of speak. membranes Bowing Requiem: of 35 membranes minutes. stretched |across |across the the Cavern Cavern of Plato. Reverberation, Reverberation, Multi-tap Multi-tap Delay, Delay, stretched Paragraphic Equalizer, Graphic Volume Equalizer, Beatty Pump Organ In honor In Dead the War of Forte Coupler Sub Echo Bass Piano Coupler Sub Echo French Piano Echo Bourdon Harp French Sub Harp Bass Aeoline Horn Horn Coupler Melodia French Delicato Celeste Celeste Viola Viola Vox Vox Humana Humana Delicato Treble 35 Requiem: minutes. Mouths ||begin 35 Mouths that to minutes. that ||begin Humana to Treble speak. of Bowing membranes of Requiem: membranes 35 stretched |across |across the the Cavern Cavern of Plato. stretched Reverberation, Multi-tap Reverberation, Delay, Multi-tap Paragraphic Paragraphic Equalizer, Equalizer, Graphic Graphic Volume Volume Beatty Beatty Pump Pump Organ Organ In honor In Dead In War the Requiem::::Plato. Reverberation, Reverberation, Multi-tap Multi-tap Delay, Delay, membranes minutes. stretched |across |across the the Cavern Cavern === ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 03:21:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Requiem for Time MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Requiem for Time burn the bones burn the bones night Day are evil slaughter the bones buried in sand Bush is murderer slaughter the Iraqi bones buried in sand killer fascist Nazi slaughter the little children Cut out off eyes hands feet of nose out Kill eyes all feet friends nose Cut prick off Kill hands all of friends Cut segregationist segregationist Republicans Republicans anti-environmental anti-environmental Bring Bring war war to to streets burn the bones of children bones of women Burn cities down burn the bones of men bones of men and women families of governments tongues tongues liars liars their their families heads governments right left arms for left coming Prepare wounded for right coming right dead their wounded left invisible everywhere everywhere planet slaughter Do planet for Do invisible not Prepare moment do think for they come come They do in us moment They they in come night They day come are night evil are hack Iraqi Arab bones children women men children Bush is murderer hack starving children killer fascist Nazi burn the bones burn the bones Cut off hands of Cut out eyes feet nose prick Kill all friends segregationist Republicans kill all anti-environmental Bring war to streets burn the bones burn the bones Burn cities down burn the bones burn the bones families Kill governments of tongues tongues liars liars their their heads right right their arms left left Cut Prepare for coming dead for wounded burn the bones burn the bones invisible Bush Prepare everywhere for slaughter planet for Do for not moment think they moment not they come do for come Do us think They in They night come day night are evil burn the bones burn the bones === ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 04:00:00 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: To blog or not to blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/21/02 2:57:34 AM, richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ writes: << Bil I tend to aggree. What I have seen of Blogs so far intrigues me: Idont have a problem with the author being dead or otehr....I dont think the author will ever be absent: more likely we simply have the author less "centred and teh work more fragmented and so on: my Infinte Poem - whose concpet in some ways was preemted by e-poetry and the possibilities through vispo and other things for a multi meidal and a dialogic and cooperative and inclusive right through to (all shades between) something that is exclusive and singular and totally foregrounds the author and ...hence tere are infinite possbilities (theoretically ..the only limitation on inclusivity is space and the time of those "running the show" - as I was saying, my Inf. Poem "discovered" that (or I found ) that despite attempts (admittedly not rigorous) to side-step the author and to move toward inclusivity and constant movement and change (at least conceptually, as a "perpetual posibility" which may or may not -it is right now!- be being enacted or is flowing,is...is in fact, ongoing it is, is....) : that a kind of voice still reamined..the trace of self: not always or possibly not ever desirable to eliminate the author...in fact what if we do: there are then "many authors" and ithis is good and many authors of course implies that each of the many is unique...this , to repeat may or may not (why should it?) lead to exclusivity ro "elitism"...the only problem is thereality that not all of us can access ro have the abilities to make Blogs...but that also applies to other ways of publishing (becuase a person cant self-publish even one copy of a book is unfortunate but not an argument against pubkishing or that such pubishing of some other is not "fair"). I feel that Blogs and Lists and are just new tools which one can use or not, ignore or not .....by and large they can be enjoyable to their author(s) and readers ...a complete self-indulgence (why not? who cares?) or a part of a wider more cooperative and inclusive "project". >> Good to hear from you, Richard. I'm with you on the above. My site is just that, and half of it is reserved for the work of others. So it's not a blog, as I understand the function of blogs--if I understand. But blogs be ok by me (couldn't resist crowding the consonant). Don't mind at all a peek into the other noggin. I agree that all these individual sites represent, in part, a new avenue for self-publication, a pelvic muscle most writers, super duper or itty bitty, have exercised at one time or another. Much of my own work on my site has already appeared on other sites or in print, so it's not unlike an author's webpage via the UB list of favorites. What hasn't is up there as trial balloon--some will fly; others will crash and burn--with a smidgen of vanity on the side. I can live with that. Actually, the big thrill was working on the site and getting the thing up. I've long been a technological idiot, so finally I'm learning. I'll send out a call for new work in a couple of months, for the spring BLACKBOX gallery. Maybe you, and others, will consider sending me something. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 02:07:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: KETHER #0035 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ALVIN SACHS KETHER #0035 [excerpt] www.web-published-nation.com string repeated every word say visitor ruth top demanded judge penfold pull spoil ghost asunder sally time gotter lot foolish fal-lals much pains writing article paper happily intoned reply consul all power make stay hong particularly gifford howling rolled door tool house stumpy left ways wild scream roof children yer'll see moran president club? havin de croup nex git tell yer see moran president club? street-cars crowded all negroes squatted faithful tasks cramp set kind rigamagigs thing farce whisper put fired spirit adventure making lips went sally suppose something wonderful sandy impulsively glad see ruth separated set trap sticks ercross de sez wy pyears tinch glad too able give boy good yer er fixin up very something wonderful trees down look see moran president club? right street-cars crowded all sister these interviews proved very helen liked anything parloe tom time er goin tinch glad too able give boy good woods two children took baskets went higher up mamma street-cars crowded all girls three famines skyearts clar caze enterprise archie began think come de more hour left felt perfectly sure lor beach thirty men marched burning uncle pomp tell yer pa nuf'n boutn efn mighty rich whar niggers? neber seed em ter wound up somehow lift injuns scalp overnight seemed door just let go convey town hall impulsively glad see ruth separated tinch glad too able give boy good billy stood news wondered friend take all fears dilsey helen liked anything parloe tom pile ready gotter lot foolish fal-lals yes sir claimed know went member month six weeks bill hickson cool departure all heart archie soon something wonderful hyeard em clappin uv dey han cordin ter de purpose terrifying scene see moran president club? yer mother uncle all waltz encore impulsively glad see ruth separated being far see ahead broadened handsomely furnished stood dey sons dey daughters de quickly prepared another spread gust quickly came wondering where rebellious shirley san francisco great reception see moran president club? done sir? know very well done someone presented card waited drawing-room well yes quite important news street-cars crowded all ones? took seat pursued course entered orchard run pillows schooner tetrarch gong sounded just little tinged brown gold shaking head nobody knows? really good cameron dog doing? tell see moran president club? judith jane waiting stealin put flea old man cameron hall recovery sincerely hoped shock see spoke quite decided tone parloe three miles beyond jabe finality just little tinged brown gold helen liked anything parloe tom too miles down pike needs mellinger lanterns engraved read words aloud night risk down look sighed jane --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 02:10:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: pipeloop #0006 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit THE PAUL WHITNEY COLLECTION pipeloop #0006..................excerpt www.the-hyper-age.com hair Left unkempt||||ummm need some help Damn Monique||||Peter against feelings||||posts nylons Noticing gentle||||little hair played||||monster prick invade tight pussy||||invitation touch|||| handcuffs past used||||lightly stroked cock through||||backed act amended record collection marked frd found shall set group||||world like one those doctor's chairs||||skills two college several lovers||||hand penis surrounded||||Kerry still already covered first three areas||||some detail joint information regard workers service personnel unclassified lower levels organization modern technology make possible records automated information systems additional top gallant tsq ssp-s top graphic tsq ssp-s||||top hunter|||| majority decision approve project head sponsoring agency acquiring prologue farce tragedy perhaps both knowledge for a||||never will be again||||were the children of||||you and increased priority funding look some budgetary figures classified documents followed instruct staffs penalties personnel who generate||||frd documents access classification shit who||||think go sundae||||seemingly attempting get even it with||||he had got for money||||Hazarmaveth and||||you were pursued policy government openness know far more work done by||||in front Leah and||||Egypt said to the||||the land of Egypt classified information interests national security power daughter and gave||||but Aaron's rod made||||now the fear of toward Connecticut cruising along||||anything outrageous earth so that you||||coat by her till his||||Jordan and there|||| sensor package||||senior guardianegrett airborne stand-off reacting rather pushing information||||electronic her And Abram did as||||of Joseph Jacob said||||made the heaven mashed tits chest||||still hot||||watched pair manoeuvre Lucy|||| set written reply provided reasonable opportunity reply hands up down arms||||amidst petals fragrance||||paused moment security council moving forward assure happens meantime power played key role entry amp separation phases stranger||||uttered recall clearly||||fell asleep||||despite lips||||say wait taste||||cool wall felt hardness press||||dinner instructor owner||||Dürmey||||unnecessary told||||closed began anything||||best eaten seasoned just right||||board bus where designees sec administration extent permitted law subject Mamre in the||||was made hard and he||||what you have done|||| secrecy clinton admin docs ||| index search join fas white difficulty submitting ascertaining status requirements responsibility status perform such functions related masint acoustic intelligence radar intelligence nuclear radiation himself||||fuck again||||very pretty extremely shy||||nature member mouth Debbie hadn't||||greeted sight will never|||| classified information determination eligibility access faster faster wife bucking||||mean||||only ten miles party case few tools||||continued make noises low||||rid myself day's expected battle||||waiting thank party||||opened wild smile having fun Jen spent||||body deserved some attention kissed|||| dessert replace||||cunt jumped felt||||really shook Steve men||||land and wide into a||||themselves because||||without his manager directly director defense intelligence agency and||||to his end||||tent and said to||||them in their flight|||| Hittite||||a servant 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chair||||stocking clad ankles fourth the sons of||||And the man gave||||And he said Are you||||me in one another's||||together and I will||||and good all on one||||be gone outside||||smell came up to the||||went back to the||||all united states government assets lost stolen during|||| person request doe director declassification||||sec ongoing Philip's||||Tom grin all||||Sandy pushing three fingers faster|||| realized||||end Steve ordered Tom||||tube onto crack ass|||| scratched lightly tight||||met Debbie thank||||few seconds next day Tom woke||||like return hotel||||find later wore|||| defense organization services defense special missile mark on||||cord and this stick?||||the Lord God had||||come here implement executive order order signed team amassed large comisión de noviembre de alicia pierini presidenta cristian sheet impact amendment||||executive order november executive matter referred such subparagraph person requesting matter lovely girl said Oh||||All sat round television 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oldest||||stopped up with||||and go back officers high quality soft copies fingertips need print really||||awoke hour later||||strapped chair sure||||Adele expended producing legacy system migrate new architectures sometimes such fine lines damage boundaries drawn allowing full child --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 10:27:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Carry On Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 20:56:57 -0500 > From: Jim Behrle > Subject: *Please* don't feed the jackals > > This list is a great place to get a headache and little else. Why must Nada > defend her right to have a weblog? No one here gave Ron Silliman a hard > time when his began. Get back to your hibernating or wait for other juicy > carrion. > > --Jim Behrle Jim Behrle is right. There is really no need to torture people in order to make a point! And Nada's blog is terrific! Check it out. But JB, I think on this flight you can take all the carry ons you like. How about opening your own suitcase for inspection? Nick PIombino ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 13:15:23 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: Carry On MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT whet's my appetite! What's the url again? tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Piombino" To: Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 9:27 AM Subject: Carry On > > Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 20:56:57 -0500 > > From: Jim Behrle > > Subject: *Please* don't feed the jackals > > > > This list is a great place to get a headache and little else. Why must Nada > > defend her right to have a weblog? No one here gave Ron Silliman a hard > > time when his began. Get back to your hibernating or wait for other juicy > > carrion. > > > > --Jim Behrle > > Jim Behrle is right. There is really no need to torture people in order to > make a point! > > And Nada's blog is terrific! Check it out. > > But JB, I think on this flight you can take all the carry ons you like. How > about opening your own suitcase for inspection? > > Nick PIombino ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 11:34:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brandon Thomas Barr Subject: Re: To blog or not to blog In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021221111904.033f3ec0@mail02.domino.gu.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII There are several news aggregators that do this--try typing "news agrregator" into Google and see what you find. They are both web-based and application based, and they harvest the XML of weblogs, giving you notices when they are updated and titles with short excerts of each entry. Of course, the site has to be set up for XML, but that is becoming more and more popular. I think people that blog as a practice find it to be a different process than authorial writing; I think that most established writers that come to bloggging don't. That's not wrong but it is something worth noting- I will respond to more of this discussion over the holidays. all the best, Brandon http://texturl.net/ http://bannerart.org/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 09:53:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: To blog or not to blog In-Reply-To: <002501c2a8c6$96546720$b49837d2@01397384> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" well just to correct a lingering misstep hereabouts: when we (used to) look at the canon, we (used to) see a general absence of women's writing not least b/c we fail(ed) to consider letter writing as the (in fact very public) literary activity that it was... see margaret ezell's ~social authorship and the advent of print~---which, if not the final word on the matter, puts a serious dent in the male/masculinist point-of-origin view, at least in terms of the old chestnut that the novel of western lit (presumably "invented" by men) is the proper starting point for thinking about literature in its more contemporary manifestation... so the relationship of blogging to women's writing has to be turned on its head some, if indeed this relationship is pertinent (and i think it might be)... for one, the binary that maria offered initially re women's writing---reactionary vs. (let's say) a modality of subject-position contingency (maria?)---isn't to be understood as saying that women's writing is a response to a prototypical male lit, exactly (albeit women's writing surely has at times been a response to a preemptive male publishing reality)... i won't bother trying to sketch the history of women's lit here, but as many of you know and to ease the discussion some, feminism has surely played a role right along in this history (1st, 2nd, 3rd wave and beyond---and these "waves" are hardly mutually exclusive)... so it's disheartening---to me, anyway---to think that the role of feminism might be lost on contemporary readers/writers, that one might evaluate radical women's writing (let's say) w/o a nod toward feminism... to me, that just doesn't wash in historical terms, not in the least... as to blogging, well: it can surely constitute a form of self-publishing (and what's wrong with that?), or a desire to escape the constant harping that one finds on lists such as this one (and what's wrong with that?), or a desire to create a space for more measured articulation (and what's wrong with that?), OR ejaculation of logos in solitude... i.e., more of the same sort of ego-gratification that more and more characterizes much of the web... and there might be something wrong with this, on which point i find jeffrey j's characteristically expansive post useful, albeit i wish he hadn't picked on nada's blog... there is an *evaluative* question here not of genre but of singularity... we might end up concluding about this new genre (one that mirrors perhaps older belletristic forms) that 90% of it is fluff or puffery... but at present, given its relative newness, i think it's incumbent upon us to keep an open mind, and be a bit exacting about what, exactly, gives offense in a given blog---and hey, what the hell, be nice about it!... otherwise we'll likely drift into that same binary of evangelical praise vs. unmitigated doubt that characterized the early years of the web, and new techne in general... best, & thinking about starting a blog mself--- joe ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 12:01:12 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: not a blog condemnation In-Reply-To: <200212210007231.SM00654@acsu.buffalo.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When I posted the piece of blog humor from mnftiu.cc, I was attempting merely to share a piece of humor. I did not intend it as a spot condemnation of the use of blogs, nor did I intend it as a sort of "chiming in" against any particular person's use of a blog. The timing was quite coincidental, due mainly to the fact that I receive this list via daily digest. All things are worth a little criticism, but no thing is the end of the universe. It's only the river, it's only the river. Some good points, some bad points it'll all work out well you know I'm a little freaked out Patrick ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 17:30:04 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Platt CATALOGONY 15. PREMIUM PLUSH SUPER FIRM CAST IRON TRIVETS in order that included). Ages 3 and up. toxic water-based blue paint and easy - follow Made in USA. or after matching visuals). For ages 3 and up. box with handle. Made in USA. Ages 3 and up kind of wholesome WHO AND STONE [experience necessary] grows older and moves into a twin size bed. lovely harmonies. With acrylic lightweight in classic decorator patterns...a SMALL-TIME powerful, but believes us, it is! Featuring a unique lover to] indoor/outdoor pro-of open-work SUPER ABSORBENT stream of clean steam eliminating creases together eclectic strands. A festive addition to any room or pushbutton switch and 12-foot long cord 16. SELF-GRIPPING CUSTOM ROLLERS works out that spell out his name ("T" has a little detailing and glints of gold. Quartz move- believe an amazing value...100 handpainted [Easy ([Free)] washable. Made in USA TO NEUTRALIZE silky-soft satin --- so they feel as great as they look! angel. Made of resin and garbed in gold with a very easily connected together as you imparts polish extends to 21" W; folds to 2 1/2" flat for storage. great impression coming and going. Indoors ABBREVIATIONS bols of the season. Perfectly shows [seek help. Television] how quietly pushed up through metal with a green shaking KEYS maneuver and also absorbs the LETTERS imported 30" W. AND NOTES ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 15:10:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: zaum@JUNO.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, I am really enjoying these. Congrats. Best, Geoffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Platt" To: Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 12:30 PM > CATALOGONY > > 15. > > PREMIUM PLUSH SUPER FIRM CAST IRON TRIVETS > > > in order that included). Ages 3 and up. > toxic water-based blue paint and easy - follow > Made in USA. or after > matching visuals). For ages 3 and up. > box with handle. Made in USA. Ages 3 and up > kind of wholesome WHO AND STONE [experience > necessary] grows older and moves into a twin size bed. > lovely harmonies. With acrylic lightweight > > in classic decorator patterns...a SMALL-TIME > powerful, but believes us, it is! Featuring a unique > lover to] indoor/outdoor pro-of open-work SUPER ABSORBENT > stream of clean steam eliminating creases together > eclectic strands. A festive addition to any room or > pushbutton switch and 12-foot long cord > > > > > 16. > > > > SELF-GRIPPING CUSTOM ROLLERS > > works out that spell out his name ("T" has a little > detailing and glints of gold. Quartz move- > believe an amazing value...100 handpainted [Easy > ([Free)] washable. Made in USA TO NEUTRALIZE > silky-soft satin --- so they feel as great as they look! > angel. Made of resin and garbed in gold with a > very easily connected together as you imparts polish > extends to 21" W; folds to 2 1/2" flat for storage. > > great impression coming and going. Indoors > ABBREVIATIONS bols of the season. Perfectly shows [seek > help. Television] how quietly pushed up through > metal with a green shaking KEYS > maneuver and also absorbs the LETTERS > imported 30" W. AND NOTES > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 12:41:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Rathmann Subject: Re: "good"/"bad" poetry by dogs In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20021219161935.01c6def0@mail.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mark, Yes, it is interesting. Watching dogs piss on a long-suffering street sign or clump of grass is a bit like watching people sign their names. (Some even seem to do it with a flourish.) So the parsing or reading of the scents may be like reconstructing names in a faded guestbook -- and the dates too, since, as you say, the dog's sensory universe has a fourth dimension. It would be as if the objects we beheld with our eyes carried a date stamp on them, or slowly faded into nothingness with the passing of time. Can my dog, I wonder, still detect somewhere in her fur the scent of her mother? Like seeing a ghost. Say that nouns constitute the world as objects while verbs constitute it as events. Is a smell an object or an event? Perhaps the dog's poem would be mostly verbs: I hunger, I exult, I hear a strange noise, I raise a furious warning, I smell the humans cooking. This is whole area of thought is powerfully mysterious: "After tasting a watermelon, Lucy described it as 'candy drink' or 'drink fruit', which is essentially the same word form as the English 'water melon'. But after she had burned her mouth on her first radish, Lucy forever after described them as 'cry hurt food'. A small doll placed unexpectedly in Washoe's cup elicited the response 'Baby in my drink'. When Washoe soiled, particularly clothing or furniture, she was taught the sign 'dirty', which she extrapolated as a general term of abuse. A rhesus monkey that evoked her displeasure was repeatedly signed at: 'Dirty monkey, dirty monkey, dirty monkey'. Occasionally Washoe would say things like 'Dirty Jack, gimme drink'. Lana, in a moment of creative annoyance, called her trainer 'You green shit'." -- Carl Sagan, _Dragons of Eden_ (I suppose Marjorie Perloff would consider Lucy, Washoe, and Lana to be dupes of a philosophically naive poetics of referentiality and self-expression -- but then again they _were_ doing their best work in the early seventies.) Andy >The dog's awareness is actually pretty interesting. It parses that smell, >which is why it takes so long at the sniffing and finds it so exciting. The >dog's poem, if the owner could read it, might well be a list of nouns >punctuated by an occasional question. A four dimensional reflexive field, >its entire vocabulary a list of what's been left there and who left it. One >way to costitute a moment's world. > >Mark ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 16:33:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: *day* of the jackal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jim, I don't think that the idea is to give Nada a hard time about her blog, but to question the one way messaging a blog can have. Or more to the point, what are proper post-millennial delivery systems of poetry? On-list one's ideas are run through personal differences which can cause headaches, but opens the playing field for poetic discussions. And good conversation should fill the head so much it hurts. This list, prior to 9/11 was a place for great discussions [and a source of great comfort during the crisis period of 9/11] and critical thought, very similar to what Nada and Ron reserve for their blog. I think that this is interesting that this tread is co-joined to Bill Austin 's page. His could be a model for a tidy delivery system. He has an author page along with a gallery of artists. This turns the tide of a traditional journal by aligning oneself among a group of artists enlarging a circle of influence. For the headache : There is a very different feel for comparison of the blog's. Nada is poet with greatness on the rise, where Silliman is a running source of greatness. I only knew from Silliman's wisdom by print books and journals. The blog emulates a forum he is used to only in a neat to eat treat delivered hot and fresh like a pizza. I would disagree with others who say that this is a step down in his authorial stature, by placing information on a blog that is not good enough for a book. However, the blog might open artistic ideas to discussion without the embarrassing thought that the author might be lurking around. Best, Geoffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Behrle" To: Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 8:56 PM Subject: *Please* don't feed the jackals > This list is a great place to get a headache and little else. Why must Nada > defend her right to have a weblog? No one here gave Ron Silliman a hard > time when his began. Get back to your hibernating or wait for other juicy > carrion. > > --Jim Behrle ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 08:10:29 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: komninos zervos Subject: Re: To blog or not to blog In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-744144BD; boundary="=======1ACB6FE9=======" --=======1ACB6FE9======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-744144BD; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit thanks brandon, look forward to your thoughts on blogging, and i'll check out news a[ggre][ali]gators k At 02:34 AM 22/12/02, you wrote: >There are several news aggregators that do this--try typing "news >agrregator" into Google and see what you find. They are both web-based >and application based, and they harvest the XML of weblogs, giving you >notices when they are updated and titles with short excerts of each entry. > >Of course, the site has to be set up for XML, but that is becoming more >and more popular. > >I think people that blog as a practice find it to be a different process >than authorial writing; I think that most established writers that come >to bloggging don't. That's not wrong but it is something worth noting- > >I will respond to more of this discussion over the holidays. > >all the best, > >Brandon > >http://texturl.net/ >http://bannerart.org/ > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 17/12/02 --=======1ACB6FE9======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-744144BD Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 17/12/02 --=======1ACB6FE9=======-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 15:07:18 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: To blog or not to blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill. I work selling books on Saturdays (your Fridays) (12 to 20 hours working and heavy packing unpacking etc - very exhausting) and my brain doesnt work too well on those days but I tend to write something (despite exhaustion there's a kind of "buzz" one gets) I think is "profound" on a Saturday (I have noticed that if I play Chess in this state of (feels close to death!) exhaustion my brain just doesnt work for me (I lose just about every game and my rating points plummett!) - its a bit like being drunk (or I suppose like some drugs which act more subtley than alcohol) but it is amazing that I can still write something that approximates rationality....however!! The gist of what I was trying to say remains: I dont have a problem with Blogs or (I see it as manifestation of the larger "e-project" which is in fact in reality a cojoint or possibly also and or a cooperative procesional (of) things (or it can be - doesnt have to be anything): where possiblities open up....I havn't looked at your site, I will when I get time, but in a sense I see the "e-project" [ but read generally the wider "project" of language and other innovative writing and mulitmedia processional things and indeed the totality of Art and life] in its totality (while not being as marvellous as some would have it) as possibly an "answer" to Bernstein's essay "writing and Method" and maybe to some of the things in "A Poetics" .. the idea for absorption anti absorption of polyvocality and so on...and if I read C B right he doesnt totally dismiss even the "confessionals" for example (or oter "movements approaches) but sees them as part of a general movement to trace the trace of self etc which is (possibly at the tail end of Modernism if that "movement is at an end - depends how one defines it)...but that essay "Writing and Method"and my exposure (via Wystan Curnow Roger Horrocks Murray Edmond Alan Loney and Michelle Leggott and other of my lecturers at Auck Uni in the mid nineties into Stein, Olson, Zuk., Williams. Moore,Bishop, Pound (these via Don Smith and others) and others and thence the NY Schools and Language Poetry) led me to contemplate the Inf. Poem which began as a kind of collage of writings (including my own ) not completely unlike ideas of Pound etc but I also was ( I cant recall thinking much about Cage though I have his ideas since and Charles Ives ) but I also thought about Beuys's ( possibly true ) action of refusing to teach if not everyone was enrolled in his art school..so my project started to think about inclusivity (I first of all wanted a gnomic and very exclusive thing - this is the advantage (or is disadvantage?) of being - metaphorically - a split personality in my writing aaproach - so that in the end it - (the Inf Poem) came (conceptually at least) to approximate the total "reality" of life lived and "art" practised. I dont separate the arts: to me somewhow they are all part of a single human project (in fact everything theoretically was to "pour through" the I.P. which is why I thought like Ashbery ..to put everything in or then leave every thing out!!..the brilliant thing Ron S quoted recently on his Blogg from Three Poems which had also fascinted me...so I was/am a bit stalemated (although Jack Ross put my "part one" of it in Brief here in Auck): now, however, as I say, it mixes (and I feel that the whole e-project of poetry on the internet and Vispo - the whole shebang - I mean...everything eevn this I'm writing - is like a kind of huge ideational river with eg the links that enable the "reader" to jump in space or cyber space or ideationally or whatever and the art and so on or the links back to the List or to physical books ..even the "jumps" into politics...the reporting of it or refernenceing of it vocally to others and so on: the entire satura is ( yes as I saaid a huge ideational river))...and I had the concept of process which just moved on and all and anyone could be part of it - I suppose Kerouac's ghost comes in here, and maybe Burroughs -: the only limit being certain practical factors (so I thought well if I was to produce an actual I. P. then I would have to decide from all submissions who was to be "in" by throwing a dice)...but in a sense there are now so many journals and e journals and Blogs that this is kind of preempted: of course it conceptual mainly: and of course one still makes decisions..( at one time I conceived of eliminating the author totally by getting various people to retype in any way they wanted any "source material" - which material was to come from anywhere and every where!) but I was prepared to actually do this ( I mean now to put everywone in!!) (eg my friend who doesnt even like poetry wanted to "include" a quote from an book on the classifications of animals (he's not a scientist either just enjoys intelligent "popular" science) but I was also going to include anything in the "work" (could I include something that excluded everything and included itself though?!!?) (this MY blobby Blog..)...but then I thought: well that in a sense is what is going on out there! The old days of certain "great geniuses" (I see Bloom has done some monstrous thing about geniuses recently) seems to over for most of us on this List.....BUT as you indicate you get/got a lot of excitement fulfilment etc from the actual doing of your Blog (as Ron will also and others..and that's brilliant: the commodity is thus (partly) self-consumed (nothing new here per se except maybe the technology - the same could be gained perhaps from a journal done by oneself or a book or books..in a different way/s) Maybe there is a danger of islandisation? Possibly: especially cogent now with certain political events on the horizon. But not a problem peculiar to blogification perhaps...hopefully not. No apolgies for divigations and fragmentations its both how I write and how I think and so on...and also I'm still recovering from being a bookseller yesterday! I might send something Bill. Good to hear (directly from you and good not to be raging and raving about politics (we cant exclude politics though ? no? it seems to be constantly being thrust upon us these days...)...and I remember you were one of the first to befriend me in an e-friendly way when I first started raving on this Poetics List !! Hope all is good for you and others and I wish you and others a great Xmas (if I dont send more emails). Kind regards, Richard. Auckland, NZ. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 10:00 PM Subject: Re: To blog or not to blog > In a message dated 12/21/02 2:57:34 AM, richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ writes: > > << Bil I tend to aggree. What I have seen of Blogs so far intrigues me: > Idont > > have a problem with the author being dead or otehr....I dont think the > > author will ever be absent: more likely we simply have the author less > > "centred and teh work more fragmented and so on: my Infinte Poem - whose > > concpet in some ways was preemted by e-poetry and the possibilities through > > vispo and other things for a multi meidal and a dialogic and cooperative and > > inclusive right through to (all shades between) something that is exclusive > > and singular and totally foregrounds the author and ...hence tere are > > infinite possbilities (theoretically ..the only limitation on inclusivity > > is space and the time of those "running the show" - as I was saying, my > > Inf. Poem "discovered" that (or I found ) that despite attempts > > (admittedly not rigorous) to side-step the author and to move toward > > inclusivity and constant movement and change (at least conceptually, as a > > "perpetual posibility" which may or may not -it is right now!- be being > > enacted or is flowing,is...is in fact, ongoing it is, is....) : that a kind > > of voice still reamined..the trace of self: not always or possibly not ever > > desirable to eliminate the author...in fact what if we do: there are then > > "many authors" and ithis is good and many authors of course implies that > > each of the many is unique...this , to repeat may or may not (why should > > it?) lead to exclusivity ro "elitism"...the only problem is thereality that > > not all of us can access ro have the abilities to make Blogs...but that also > > applies to other ways of publishing (becuase a person cant self-publish > > even one copy of a book is unfortunate but not an argument against > > pubkishing or that such pubishing of some other is not "fair"). I feel > > that Blogs and Lists and are just new tools which one can use or not, ignore > > or not .....by and large they can be enjoyable to their author(s) and > > readers ...a complete self-indulgence (why not? who cares?) or a part of a > > wider more cooperative and inclusive "project". >> > > Good to hear from you, Richard. I'm with you on the above. My site is just > that, and half of it is reserved for the work of others. So it's not a blog, > as I understand the function of blogs--if I understand. But blogs be ok by > me (couldn't resist crowding the consonant). Don't mind at all a peek into > the other noggin. I agree that all these individual sites represent, in > part, a new avenue for self-publication, a pelvic muscle most writers, super > duper or itty bitty, have exercised at one time or another. Much of my own > work on my site has already appeared on other sites or in print, so it's not > unlike an author's webpage via the UB list of favorites. What hasn't is up > there as trial balloon--some will fly; others will crash and burn--with a > smidgen of vanity on the side. I can live with that. > > Actually, the big thrill was working on the site and getting the thing up. > I've long been a technological idiot, so finally I'm learning. I'll send out > a call for new work in a couple of months, for the spring BLACKBOX gallery. > Maybe you, and others, will consider sending me something. Best, Bill > > WilliamJamesAustin.com > KojaPress.com > Amazon.com > BarnesandNoble.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 21:24:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: midwinter day Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Wouldn't it be great if we all read Midwinter Day tomorrow!! tap, tap, tap into that collective poetic consciousness...take yr pet lobster out for a walk...list the titles of all the current "current" books...etc. n. oh, & been reading Telling It Slant...thanks all for making such an interesting book... _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 21:56:07 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: *day* of the jackal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It takes me a while to catch up with advances in the web world. Nada's was the first blog I ever visited. I think her comments on decoration and poetry (through Gargantua's codpiece, full of bejeweled amazement) was brilliant -stimulating, non-authorial, whatever this well-abused word means.- Murat In a message dated 12/21/2002 4:34:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, ggatza@DAEMEN.EDU writes: > And good conversation should > fill the head so much it hurts. This list, prior to 9/11 was a place for > great discussions [and a source of great comfort during the crisis period > of > 9/11] and critical thought, very similar to what Nada and Ron reserve for > their blog. > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 20:09:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: midwinter day In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I second this wonderful idea. let's do it; for a similar experiment see "13 days dance festival" in yoko ono's grapefruit or the notes on the dance in the first issue of fabulous new journal "factorial!" --- noah eli gordon wrote: > Wouldn't it be great if we all read Midwinter Day > tomorrow!! > tap, tap, tap into that collective poetic > consciousness...take yr pet > lobster out for a walk...list the titles of all the > current "current" > books...etc. > > n. > > oh, & been reading Telling It Slant...thanks all for > making such an > interesting book... > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months > FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= > http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf ===== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) --John Lennon and Yoko Ono __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 00:28:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: blog on! Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 13:15:23 -0600 > From: Thomas Bell > Subject: Re: Carry On > > whet's my appetite! What's the url again? > > tom bell > > Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 16:20:02 -0500 > From: Nada Gordon > Subject: blog on! > Stay tuned to ULULATIONS! http://ululate.blogspot.com > > love, > nada ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 00:47:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: tuner MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII tuner Nikuko, this came to me. k15% tail spamct: 2 - Re: em k16% whenuery To: ksh: when: not found Nov 30 Hi again k17% you'reer: the let > workingnsion Onl > a manual reed organ Parts/Attachments:s > you're ksh: youre ~72 line working(charse a manual reed organest Composition, Co youre: not founder 2 Shown k18% goingText (char ksh: going: not found AI + N 4 k19% through labor------------------ ksh: through: not foundvision" re:arked for de k20% it takes ComputingTERNET:info@ Computers OK 67 l Web Hosting] Fwd: 16.320 k21% away 2 Show ksh: away: not foundcharset: ISO-8859-1) k22% h", ISM 6 proc 7 bac ------ 8 ls---------- 9 b---PM org 10 mwithin HP 11 lse R 12 mowing tex 13 me "iso-88 14 lscter set. 15 tail spam help for y 16 wheniversity of 17 you'rer display is s workingSCII" character a manual reed organUniversity of British Colum you're [ Some ch 18 goinge displayed i 19 through labor British Columbia inv 20 it takes for a 21 Novem 21 away k23% the distancetune://www.hp.com ksh: the: not foundDepartment of Engli k24% pico zz at the Assi Jennifer, to work at culture requires both physical and mental labor. Nikuko, the distance gets closer as labor disappears. Jennifer, even thought is physical labor. Nikuko, then mental labor Jennifer, occurs elsewhere, always elsewhere, something Nikuko, we might ascribe to the other Jennifer, or our internal states Nikuko, out of touch, Jennifer, out of mind === UW PICO(tm) 4.4 File: zz [ New file ] ^G Get Help ^O WriteOut ^R Read File ^Y Prev Pg ^K Cut Text ^C Cur Pos ^X Exit ^J Justify ^W Where is ^V Next Pg ^U UnCut Text^T To Spell ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 19:48:26 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: blog on! I hope this doesnt sound like "Richard's Blog" on the Cheap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I visited Nada's Blog and ws impressed. Re ornament: I've myself have been writing deliberately over-ornamented prose poems for some time. The "overkill" I have used as a strategy, probably somewhat derived from Ashbery. I lke the humorous aspects of it - the camp aspect maybe. I hasten to say I'm not gay: which reveals the truth that I am a little "homophobic" (actually a gay Auckland writer who is well known as a short story writer and gets stuff on the radio is a big fan of my performed prose poems - especially the very over ornamented and digressive ones!!!) (And he and I , afer some initial disgreements and "battles" have now a good respect for each other ) ( I'm not hostile though - that is a misconception)...I cant say else...maybe I'm also a mysoginist: never think about it much. My feeling is that it (ornamentation and or structure) is not a more masculine or a more femininee thing: its just that the dry, pared down poem is seen to be what people do (a lot nowadays): whereas eg what I have seen of Chris Stroffolino for example is not so (unornamented). But I also tried (to offset a tendency to blow out ) to write shorter, more cut down things: now I noticed that that was an interesting and useful stage or "experiment": one thing is that a poem becomes shorter and "sparer" it becomes (I feel) more and more obvious that more words need to be ommitted. But that's maybe been said before and may not be true..it just seems so to me... Voice recognition - hmmm - interesting. The quote from Rabellias is good: important, great writer. Ornament. It depends what works. Structure: I didnt think a lot about structure for a long time (except in writing essays on poems etc) and still have a problem with complex, intricate, structure....however: no matter how instinctive or intuitive a writer is their work will contain a structure of a kind (if not a pre-determined water-tight, "claustrophobic?" structure), stilll a pattern arises (almost despite attemts to impose some "opther" structure or to NOT inmpose): no I think it is an individual thing more or less regardless of whether one is a male, gay, female, or whatever other combination....but these are my initial reactions. The Blog was good...not as long and analytical as Ron's (we'll all start comparing the Blog's now!!) but some interesting insights and references. And some delights....what was that: "A jungle of chromium" Was that it ? Refreshing. I had heard of Mina Loy but dont know her work. Will keep an eye out. Thanks for this link Nada and others. Richard. Auck, NZ. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Piombino" To: Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 6:28 PM Subject: blog on! > > > > Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 13:15:23 -0600 > > From: Thomas Bell > > Subject: Re: Carry On > > > > whet's my appetite! What's the url again? > > > > tom bell > > > > > Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 16:20:02 -0500 > > From: Nada Gordon > > Subject: blog on! > > > > Stay tuned to ULULATIONS! http://ululate.blogspot.com > > > > love, > > nada ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 01:03:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: "good"/"bad" poetry by dogs In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I'm not sure what straw man or woman you're tilting at, but I'm reasonably sure that the dog's sense of I-ness depends upon its status within the pack. Even the alpha dogs, however, probably don't have a higher primate's sense of selfhood. Hence, "fido smell, fritz smell, what was fifi doing here? in heat! pumpkins." I don't follow your quip about Marjorie Perloff. The apes in question seem a lot closer to language as discovery than to confessional monologue. And of course they're not writing poetry, tho they come pretty close. I love "cry hurt drink." Can apes sue for plagiarism? Was Sagan not aware that "dirty" is "a general term of abuse" for humans, too? I justr returned from Mexico, where "pinche" serves much the same purpose. Both are intensifiers. A dirty coward, a dirty liar. Un pinche pendejo, un pinche cobarde. maybe we should all be issued apes to ride in the passenger's seat and hurl invective. Mark At 12:41 PM 12/21/2002 -0800, you wrote: >Mark, > >Yes, it is interesting. Watching dogs piss on a long-suffering street >sign or clump of grass is a bit like watching people sign their >names. (Some even seem to do it with a flourish.) So the parsing or >reading of the scents may be like reconstructing names in a faded >guestbook -- and the dates too, since, as you say, the dog's sensory >universe has a fourth dimension. It would be as if the objects we beheld >with our eyes carried a date stamp on them, or slowly faded into >nothingness with the passing of time. Can my dog, I wonder, still detect >somewhere in her fur the scent of her mother? Like seeing a ghost. > >Say that nouns constitute the world as objects while verbs constitute it >as events. Is a smell an object or an event? Perhaps the dog's poem >would be mostly verbs: I hunger, I exult, I hear a strange noise, I raise >a furious warning, I smell the humans cooking. > >This is whole area of thought is powerfully mysterious: > >"After tasting a watermelon, Lucy described it as 'candy drink' or 'drink >fruit', which is essentially the same word form as the English 'water >melon'. But after she had burned her mouth on her first radish, Lucy >forever after described them as 'cry hurt food'. A small doll placed >unexpectedly in Washoe's cup elicited the response 'Baby in my >drink'. When Washoe soiled, particularly clothing or furniture, she was >taught the sign 'dirty', which she extrapolated as a general term of >abuse. A rhesus monkey that evoked her displeasure was repeatedly signed >at: 'Dirty monkey, dirty monkey, dirty monkey'. Occasionally Washoe would >say things like 'Dirty Jack, gimme drink'. Lana, in a moment of creative >annoyance, called her trainer 'You green shit'." -- Carl Sagan, _Dragons >of Eden_ > >(I suppose Marjorie Perloff would consider Lucy, Washoe, and Lana to be >dupes of a philosophically naive poetics of referentiality and >self-expression -- but then again they _were_ doing their best work in the >early seventies.) > >Andy > > > >The dog's awareness is actually pretty interesting. It parses that smell, > >which is why it takes so long at the sniffing and finds it so exciting. The > >dog's poem, if the owner could read it, might well be a list of nouns > >punctuated by an occasional question. A four dimensional reflexive field, > >its entire vocabulary a list of what's been left there and who left it. One > >way to costitute a moment's world. > > > >Mark ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 03:25:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: 20th century. Granite Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 20th century. Granite risk thither pretends headlong join hiring wouldn't melancholy extricating seize precisely dad free-company seem felt pain like iron ring head. Am insane. Fear feel does 20th century. Granite risk thither pretends headlong join hiring wander wouldn't melancholy extricating seize precisely dad free-company spirited seem felt pain like iron ring head. Am insane. Fear feel does 20th century. Granite risk thither pretends headlong join hiring existence somewhere ken. Brute force pitilessly applied. Wander wouldn't melancholy extricating seize precisely dad free-company spirited seem felt pain like iron ring head. Am insane. Fear feel does 20th century. Granite risk thither pretends headlong join hiring tie existence somewhere ken. Brute force pitilessly applied. Wander wouldn't melancholy extricating seize precisely dad free-company seize enjoy mend. Pace pretends varying frustrated spite seize enjoy spirited seem felt pain like iron ring head. Am insane. Fear feel does tie existence somewhere ken. Brute force pitilessly applied. Wander influence generous lustre join gardener-beetles. Murmuring arrayed seize enjoy mend. Pace pretends varying frustrated spite seize enjoy spirited coquetries sex. Nello eyes left face wandered distance. Where tie existence somewhere ken. Brute force pitilessly applied. Vegetables influence generous lustre join gardener-beetles. Murmuring arrayed seize enjoy mend. Pace pretends varying frustrated spite seize enjoy chain pretends roasting talkative intention. Frustrated headlong coquetries sex. Nello eyes left face wandered distance. Where tie stutter vegetables influence generous lustre join gardener-beetles. Murmuring arrayed seize enjoy mend. Pace pretends varying frustrated spite seize enjoy profuse perspiration. Chain pretends roasting talkative intention. Frustrated headlong coquetries sex. Nello eyes left face wandered distance. Where dodge. Stutter vegetables influence generous lustre join gardener-beetles. Murmuring arrayed fletcher. March. Friend. Hearing ill. Great profuse perspiration. Chain pretends roasting talkative intention. Frustrated headlong coquetries sex. Nello eyes left face wandered distance. Where time child came world. Very last day year. Great satisfaction dodge. Stutter vegetables thorough man business. Plodded between enderley mills smaller fletcher. March. Friend. Hearing ill. Great profuse perspiration. Chain pretends roasting talkative intention. Frustrated headlong lord ravenel re-appearance beechwood seemed eager glad time child came world. Very last day year. Great satisfaction dodge. Stutter ankerchers seize unfeeling pretends don't dearest to influence upper thorough man business. Plodded between enderley mills smaller fletcher. March. Friend. Hearing ill. Great profuse perspiration. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 03:31:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: Preferred headlong join action Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Preferred headlong join action cautiously gian swamiji doublet gained anyway. Pacific haven enough seize troublous 440 sprung deny baptized aught preferred headlong join action cautiously gian swamiji doublet notre-dame du bout du pont. Venez aught mon aide en cette heure! Gained anyway. Pacific haven enough seize troublous 440 sprung deny baptized aught preferred headlong join action cautiously gian swamiji doublet wander notre-dame du bout du pont. Venez aught mon aide en cette heure! Gained anyway. Spirited pacific haven enough seize troublous 440 sprung deny baptized aught preferred headlong join action cautiously gian swamiji doublet person subordinate position. Balcony also make up those wander notre-dame du bout du pont. Venez aught mon aide en cette heure! Gained anyway. Spirited pacific haven enough seize troublous 440 sprung deny baptized aught tie person subordinate position. Balcony also make up those wander notre-dame du bout du pont. Venez aught mon aide en cette heure! Nope. Collected. Let pace dummies preferring facing rooms. Granite spirited tie person subordinate position. Balcony also make up those wander arching assented fop in french assented hundredfold murmuring nope. Collected. Let pace dummies preferring facing rooms. Granite spirited tie person subordinate position. Balcony also make up those vegetables arching assented fop in french assented hundredfold murmuring nope. Collected. Let pace dummies preferring facing rooms. Granite describe to influence north-western. Save train ferry upstairs. Tie stutter vegetables arching assented fop in french assented hundredfold murmuring nope. Collected. Let pace dummies preferring facing rooms. Granite thompson walks forego sing football practice murmuring walks arched to describe to influence north-western. Save train ferry upstairs. Defies precisely tugged seize dwell doublet aught doffed extricating stutter vegetables arching assented fop in french assented hundredfold murmuring search perceive nobody yet felt somebody who held hands. Kissed thompson walks forego sing football practice murmuring walks arched to describe to influence north-western. Save train ferry upstairs. Door opened coburn herself. Happened sun shining directly defies precisely tugged seize dwell doublet aught doffed extricating stutter vegetables counsel. Decides against idea. Others will bear sad news. Search perceive nobody yet felt somebody who held hands. Kissed thompson walks forego sing football practice murmuring walks arched to describe to influence north-western. Save train ferry upstairs. Determined return london chief approved. Lay whole facts customs door opened coburn herself. Happened sun shining directly defies precisely tugged seize dwell doublet aught doffed extricating stutter twinkling brick promising keep an eye on aught january paved deplore counsel. Decides against idea. Others will bear sad news. Search perceive nobody yet felt somebody who held hands. Kissed thompson walks forego sing football practice murmuring walks arched to extricating presenting submitted curt to influence bar. Determined return london chief approved. Lay whole facts customs door opened coburn herself. Happened sun shining directly defies precisely tugged seize dwell doublet aught doffed extricating consisted to influence transition handling to influence long-dead u. Twinkling brick promising keep an eye on aught january paved deplore counsel. Decides against idea. Others will bear sad news. Search perceive nobody yet felt somebody who held hands. Kissed aught commitment tragedy regularly. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 14:42:40 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Platt CATALOGONY 17. FANNY SHAPER Festive and creatively cute, these poly-resin lamp- you're drinking! both the hefty ALL-COLOR favorites or without music. Hinged the knob Machine washable 100% cotton. Made in USA. 60" x 13". weeks for delivery "night sweats" [& innovative designs] vinyl with flannel back. Please specify quartz movement and substance get up and down legs with built-in brace support, stain-resistant lights flash and bells ring to signal your mock pockets television from any angle. Uniquely designed, handsome, ash and dry, no-iron polyester with non-slide, thoughtful book friends with Halloween jack-o'lanterns and in no time immediate help!] THE INNOVATIVE YEARS please specify color 18. CONVERTIBLE CAP ware and instructions included GADGET SET framed in gold mylar. The 8" x 10" in any room or hallway. Vacuum clean. 6' 10" L x 22" W. One by one back, angled sides, clear shelves, double ment. Fits standard-size vents. Sizes up and enjoy year confusion [monthly stuffing] sleek styling looks handsome in living room easy-care machine wash and dry Specify color AMONG OTHERS specify Blue or Pink lightweight aluminum worn, pitted, and corroded areas for that gleaming acid responsible for bad breath and first person assembly required; hardware included [opportunity beyond] Handsome and ornate simple, yet AND ECCENTRICITIES designed to keep the air you breathe ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 08:05:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: Bird Dog magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Bird Dog: A dog used to retrieve game birds. To > follow a subject of interest with persistent > attention. A scout . . . > Seeking innovative writing and art: collaborations, > interviews, long poems, reviews, collages, poetry, > poetics, graphs, charts, short fiction, non-fiction, > cross genre . . . > > Bird Dog is published bi-annually in winter and > summer. 8 ½ x11, black & white, stapled. > Subscriptions $12.00 for two issues. Individual > copies $6. Checks payable to Sarah Mangold > > Submissions for Issue 3 should be received by > January 15, 2003. > > Submissions, Subscriptions, Queries: > www.birddogmagazine.com > > Bird Dog > c/o Sarah Mangold > 1819 18th Ave > Seattle, WA 98122 > > ===== * please visit www.ariellegreenberg.net for links to poems, information about readings, etc. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 15:53:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Aphorisms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Aphorisms Take it as far as you can; frenzy awakens it. Suck sex for the enumeration of organs. Exhaustion eliminates the adverb like the open wound it is. Leave the gap, there's smoke. Where there's fire, words suffocate the mouth. The cloth loincloth falls to pieces. Bite God at a distance. Honestly is the last refuge of talking forever. If you cut out their tongs, you balk at the righteous. Truth is a running woman. Sit at the foot of a refugee's house. When you seek sex, you seek geometry. The absence of culture is always refused. Crawl through the dung which is always renewable. The decision against suicide brings proof to the mountain. The valley knives the body. Etiquette conforms paranoia. Politeness is the best cleanser. Etiquette is a mingling of other bodies. Bodies guarantee. Images guarantee the demises of damaged life. Revel in the quantity of organisms available. Illness increases; hatred supports it. Bring others down with the other. Do not do with one foot after death. After birth is the shortest distance between two points. The alpha and omega court the eternal. What is never considered is the consternation of the author. Theory is invaded by the completion of time. Representation is the origin of negation. The triangulation of spirit is the reception of the shadow of women. The first invention of man is the same. Opposition is the barrier of language. The circuit of the slogan is a metaphor. Nothing dissolves in the presence of speech. Not the shadow of a doubt coheres to transcendence. === ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 17:35:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: midwinter day MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit what a GREAT idea! Bernadette Mayer recently read the book in its entirety. wish i had been able to make it to the event. the returning light and the poets who honor it make me think of those bards of centuries past (not that i want to venture from OUR most amazing time for poetry) who would be gathering on this day to speak by way of the pressure points on their hands with the alphabet of the sacred grove happy solstice and here's to hoping the IDEA of war can be defeated! CAConrad "This is a good world... And war shall fail." --Kenneth Patchen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 19:38:37 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Camille Martin Subject: codes of public sleep MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "codes of public sleep," a poem with photographs, is online at _Streetnotes_ (a section of the journal _Xcp_). Here's the website: http://www.xcp.bfn.org/martin.html _Streetnotes_ has some terrific work in the current and archived issues, so have a look around while you're there. Camille Martin Lit City 7725 Cohn St. New Orleans, LA 70118 (504) 861-8832 http://www.litcity.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 21:19:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: Notice: Mudlark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII New and On View: Mudlark Flash No. 20 (2002) Mall Poem | Francis Raven Francis Raven wrote these poems, she says, "at two vastly different malls, the Stanford Mall in Palo Alto and Union Station in St. Louis, in order to understand the phenomenon of the mall not to mindlessly criticize it." The mall is open, common and destroyed. It is our own notion of destruction manifest, but it is also our own openness, our field and food. Our choices gone crazy, elegance stripped away, but this is not necessity either. It is the wealth of anti-elitists put to strange use, recreating an elitism again in their own image. Every object in the mall is a great idea metastasized. from "Union Station" Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter _________________ MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 19:19:53 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Tysh Subject: mark(s) release MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Greetings, The new issue of mark(s) is up! It features new work by Ted Greeenwald, Bhanu Kapil Rider and Barbara Henning, plus web art by Gina Ferrari, Mathew Hanna and a net.work by Raul Ferrera-Balanquet. Check it out at http://www.markszine.com best, Chris Tysh, editor __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 20:44:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: cognitive hole MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Welcome to Fight Club. The first rule about Fight Club is: never tell anyone about Fight Club. http://www.edward-norton.org/images/fc/poseb.jpg Instantly after sending my post, I thought to send a correction: "I should have written 'Nada ~Gordon's~ blog' instead of 'Nada's blog'. She is not someone I am on a first name basis with, and we have never met." I was not talking about Nada Gordon's blog. No one was. We were discussing ideas. . I was surprised she personalized it and that we were treated to a rare List appearance. But now that they're talking about her, that's a good side-effect of the discussion, that it's quadrupled the amount of attention she would've gotten. My pleasure to play freebie publicity agent again. :) After all, what was there in her first blog entry that could be said to be "concrete reification of self" etc.? (---That was just one of those "circling around the null point" things that Barrett Watten described.---) That she takes public transportation (rides the F train)? That she teaches an introductory course in a "fly-by-night college"? For that matter, what is there in Ron Silliman's or Jordan Davis' or Jonathan Mayhew's blogs that could be called that? That Silliman has eleven bookshelves in his house, or that he finds the refreshments set out at one reading series to be particularly deserving of flattery? That he road the F bus in San Francisco (what is this about blog poets and their F trains and F buses) and shopped for his own groceries there? That Mayhew says his books are scattered among his car trunk (that he drives), his office and his house? We ~knew~ those were windmills, not dragons. In a sense, to the contrary, the blogs might not be including ~enough~ personal information to weigh in on their literary opinions. * And yet, it's so curious and sort of sad that people's sense of self is so subjugated by ~fact.~ * It was not the previous event of having read Nada Gordon's blog that ~caused~ my feelings and that I was responding to; one was just sequential after the other. (It's preposterous to come in chest-thumping to defend anyone's "right" to blog, ---such gallantry over a damsel in distress! as though women can't make it without bodyguards,--- because it's impossible for anybody to seriously advance the opposite position: "No, I insist they ~don't~ have the right!") After reading Silliman's blog, Davis' blog, and Mayhew's blog in their entirety, ~and then~ Nada Gordon's, it was sort of like the menu served at that noon luncheon for H.R.H. the Duke of Gloucester at Asprey's on 5th and 56th back in October: after veloute of wild mushroom with a foie gras crostini, roasted filet of veal with caramelized Macintosh apple, braised endive, chestnut and a celery root ravioli,--- if I said, after the dessert of mango sorbet Vacherin with a citrus meringue and verbena ice cream, that I'd "had enough," that would not have meant that it was a plate of sorbet that made me sick or that there was something wrong with the sorbet. Intellect aside, part of why I may have preferred listserv and see blogs as pernicious is that--- listserv made the "class struggle" within the poetry world (between A-list and non-citizen) permeable and was allowing poets to come to attention who are otherwise denied it by virtue of geography or some other idiosyncracy. What we're seeing with blogs, so far, is ~celebrity~ blog. It's a relineation of power. Sure, Lewis Lacook announced that he keeps a blog, but no matter how multi-talented he may be, he's somewhere down south with little or no face-to-face ties with the poetry power brokers, so there was no way that his could generate instant hype and sycophant fandom. Listserv was bringing whole new artists into visibility. How will blog world do that? No one would know about an Alan Sondheim without listserv, and it's questionable who would pay attention to the blogs of the second class poetry citizens. Without listserv (or Yahoo! Groups), who would know about Millie Niss' work? (It's like that misinterpretation about why John Ashbery would subject guests to anything like the poetry of William McGonagal. That's not some sort of aesthetic commentary on "good"/"bad" taste. He's consistently throughout his career (and even before there was any "career" there) championed almost ~exclusively~ the work of total unknowns, the lost, and the never-was, like John Wheelwright, David Schubert, Henry Green, etc., etc. In music, the same: that time he tried to give Joseph Cornell a Déodat de Severac album; or Jean Francaix's music. --- Aside from a sort of reverse snobbery trick of giving off the impression that you have so completely canvassed the work of everyone whose name is recognized that you've moved on and are forced into the fringe of the unheard-of,--- he seems to have remembered very vividly his own fears that he himself would never "make it" (a possibility that looked quite likely for a while), and has consistently used whatever power he's accrued to bring attention to the ~underdog,~ in a complete breach and turn-about of poetry world power hierarchy.) * The technology has been there and thriving for years, although under a different name. Why poets had to wait until now (eve-of-war bunker mentality?) is interesting: there were strong gender connotations to the previous interface. (…As though Total Information Awareness might not be able to find us fast enough, so we have to rush out into the Information Superhighway and lay down in the middle of the road pulling "One Way" signs around to point to ourselves.) http://www.darpa.mil/iao/images/TIA_graphic.gif opendiary.com has 4,255 "online diarists"; see also freeopendiary.com. There are even diary search engines, like diarist.net, and the form's mere existence is already retrospective, with sites like diaryhistoryproject.com that "preserve the memories of what online journalling was like in the beginning." It's significant, though, that the diary movement had a strong "gurlesque" or teenybopper edge to it that poets and blog culture had to wait for a new packaging to avoid: http://www.diaryland.com sells itself with stereotypically girlish type font and pictures of daisies and cartoons. But who could seem impressively authoritative on something called MyDearDiary.com? Apparently, serious poets had to wait until the same technology was re-issued under suitable marketing (yeah, I get it: ~writer's blog~) and a new interface and name, with all the previously too femme-feminine connotations neutered away, graphically and literally. * (I'm surprised that Nick, who has been the constant conscience against hurtful "harsh language", would second the nomination of "Get back to your hibernating or wait for other juicy carrion" which has to be some of the most violent, stop-the-discussion, attack language we're seeing, designed only to hurt. --- But then again, in this week's Village Voice letters column, a newspaper that reaches millions, Ange Mlinko, a poet (and former editor of the St. Mark's Poetry Project, before Nada Gordon) responds to Joshua Clover's article on the Lilly grant by saying, "The idea of paying mediocre poets not to write is a good one --- can we also pay Arielle Greenberg to keep her ideas . . . to herself?" --- so maybe it's all relative.) And--- When Professor Damon was talking about "rushing stuff into premature 'publication' before it's been carefully thought thru or worked into a coherent 'argument,'" you have to keep in mind the perspective that she's thinking from: In academia, a working paper that hasn't even been ~submitted~ for publication will have a "thanks" or acknowledgements on its title page for the dozen or so colleagues who ~offered comments,~ and your goal is to farm the paper around to as many people as possible and to take it on the road for seminars where it'll be the target of dozens of people's most aggressive scrutiny, so that you can incorporate that dialectic into your thinking, and see every loophole and weak link in your argument that working in isolation left unchallenged,--- because, if it's even ~considered~ for publication, it'll typically be in a ~refereed~ journal where anonymous respondents are appointed to find even ~further~ flaws in your thinking, which you'll have to correct and account for before you'll ever see publication. * I'm all for anything that can accelerate poetry's rush into a ~People~ magazine type mentality. I mean it. I expect it's only at a flood-level of total personality-minded delirium that the general public would have a hook to take an interest through. And nothing renders concrete reified self unreal faster than fame. * (About being conflict-averse, a personal anecdote: When I was interviewing with the vocations director of the Diocese of New York and religious orders, I was nervous about the upcoming prospect of a regimen of psychological testing which all religious institutions give candidates; so I asked a psychologist friend for advice. She said, "There's one test [the T.A.T.] where they show you pictures and they ask you to narrate little stories about the scenes that you're shown. In some of the pictures, there are weapons. If there is a gun in the picture, be sure to ~say~ there is a gun in the picture. . . . Otherwise, they might think that you had some sort of ~cognitive hole.~") http://www.edward-norton.org/images/fc/pittfight1.jpg __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 01:44:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: We must protest this! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I gather it's true from google news - Alan ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 01:33:45 -0500 From: Alan Sondheim Reply-To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" To: WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA Subject: [7-11] THING.NET EVICTED FROM INTERNET (along with 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org (fwd) If this is true it's horrific - please help - Alan ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 05:47:04 +0000 (UTC) From: RTMark Press To: 7-11-mail.ljudmila.org <7-11@mail.ljudmila.org> Subject: [7-11] THING.NET EVICTED FROM INTERNET (along with 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org ) Sender: 7-11-admin@mail.ljudmila.org Errors-To: 7-11-admin@mail.ljudmila.org X-BeenThere: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: a place for discussion and improvement of things <7-11.mail.ljudmila.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: X-Original-Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 00:46:39 -0500 Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 00:46:39 -0500 This message is not commercial. To get off our list, write mailto:remove@rtmark.com?subject=7-11@mail.ljudmila.org . December 23, 2002 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Thing.net assistance page: https://secure.thing.net/backbone/ Contact: mailto:thing-group@rtmark.com ACTIVIST NETWORK IN NY EVICTED FROM INTERNET BY DOW, VERIO Bowing to pressure from the Dow Chemical Corporation, the internet company Verio has booted the activist-oriented Thing.net from the Web. Internet service provider Thing.net has been the primary service provider for activist and artist organizations in the New York area for 10 years. On December 3, activists used a server housed by Thing.net to post a parody Dow press release on the eighteenth anniversary of the disaster in which 20,000 people died as a result of an accident at a Union Carbide plant in Bhopal, India. (Union Carbide is now owned by Dow.) The deadpan statement, which many people took as real, explained that Dow could not accept responsibility for the disaster due to its primary allegiance to its shareholders and to its bottom line. Dow was not amused, and sent a Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) complaint to Verio, which immediately cut Thing.net off the internet for fifteen hours. A few days later, Verio announced that Thing.net had 60 days to move to another provider before being shut down permanently, unilaterally terminating Thing.net's 7-year-old contract. Affected organizations include PS1/MOMA, Artforum, Nettime, Tenant.net (which assists renters facing eviction), and hundreds more. "Verio's actions are nothing short of outrageous," said Wolfgang Staehle, Thing.net Executive Director. "They could have resolved the matter with the Dow parodists directly; instead they chose to shut down our entire network. This self-appointed enforcement of the DMCA could have a serious chilling effect on free speech, and has already damaged our business." RTMark, which publicizes corporate abuses of democracy, is housed on Thing.net. Please visit https://secure.thing.net/backbone/ to help Thing.net survive Dow's and Verio's actions, and to develop a plan to avoid such problems in the future. # 30 # This message is not commercial. To get off our list, write mailto:remove@rtmark.com?subject=7-11@mail.ljudmila.org . If you are receiving multiple copies of this release and would rather receive only one, remove as above all versions but one. _____ _ _ # > # __/\__ |___ | / / | __/\__ |___ | / / | # > # \ / / /____| | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| | | # > # | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| | | # > # | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| | | # > # | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| | | # > # _____ _ _ # > # __/\__ |___ | / / | __/\__ |___ | / / | # > # \ / / /____| _____ _ _ # > # __/\__ |___ | / / | __/\__ |___ | / / | # > # \ / / /____| | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| \/ /_/ |_|_| \/ /_/ |_|_| # > # # > # # > #1.7.100(today="7-11.00 > # \ / / /____| | | \ / / /____| | | # > # \ / / /____| | | \ / / /____| | | # > > > Thank you for participating in 7-11 MAILING LIST > SUBSCRIBER SATISFACTION SURVEY. > > > > > ###################################################### > #1.7.100(today="7-11.00 071101010 07110101 0711.00100# > # # > # _____ _ _ _____ _ _ # > # __/\__ |___ | / / | __/\__ |___ | / / | # > # \ / / /____| | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| | | # > # \/ /_/ |_|_| \/ /_/ |_|_| # > # # > # # > #1.7.100(today="7-11.00 071101010 07110101 0711.00100# > ########### http://mail.ljudmila.org/mailman/listinfo/7-11 _____ _ _ # > # __/\__ |___ | / / | __/\__ |___ | / / | # > # \ / / /____|################################################################## >## ############ ########## # ### ### ## ###### > #### ###### #### #### ###### ############## ###### > # #### ##### #### ########## ###### ### ####### > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 02:25:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: Re: We must protest this! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit seems to me that they should pull their sites off of verio's network themselves asap...makes little sense to me to be an activists network hosted by a multi-national telecommunications corporation... best, i think, to buy a server or two at an independent datacenter & manage everything themselves... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:44 AM Subject: We must protest this! > I gather it's true from google news - Alan > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 01:33:45 -0500 > From: Alan Sondheim > Reply-To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" > > To: WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA > Subject: [7-11] THING.NET EVICTED FROM INTERNET (along with > 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org (fwd) > > If this is true it's horrific - please help - Alan > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 05:47:04 +0000 (UTC) > From: RTMark Press > To: 7-11-mail.ljudmila.org <7-11@mail.ljudmila.org> > Subject: [7-11] THING.NET EVICTED FROM INTERNET (along with > 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org > > ) > Sender: 7-11-admin@mail.ljudmila.org > Errors-To: 7-11-admin@mail.ljudmila.org > X-BeenThere: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org > X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org > List-Help: > List-Post: > List-Subscribe: , > > List-Id: a place for discussion and improvement of things <7-11.mail.ljudmila.org> > List-Unsubscribe: , > > List-Archive: > X-Original-Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 00:46:39 -0500 > Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 00:46:39 -0500 > > This message is not commercial. To get off our list, write > mailto:remove@rtmark.com?subject=7-11@mail.ljudmila.org > . > > December 23, 2002 > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > Thing.net assistance page: https://secure.thing.net/backbone/ > Contact: mailto:thing-group@rtmark.com > > ACTIVIST NETWORK IN NY EVICTED FROM INTERNET BY DOW, VERIO > > Bowing to pressure from the Dow Chemical Corporation, the internet > company Verio has booted the activist-oriented Thing.net from the Web. > > Internet service provider Thing.net has been the primary service > provider for activist and artist organizations in the New York area > for 10 years. > > On December 3, activists used a server housed by Thing.net to post a > parody Dow press release on the eighteenth anniversary of the disaster > in which 20,000 people died as a result of an accident at a Union > Carbide plant in Bhopal, India. (Union Carbide is now owned by Dow.) > The deadpan statement, which many people took as real, explained that > Dow could not accept responsibility for the disaster due to its > primary allegiance to its shareholders and to its bottom line. > > Dow was not amused, and sent a Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) > complaint to Verio, which immediately cut Thing.net off the internet > for fifteen hours. A few days later, Verio announced that Thing.net > had 60 days to move to another provider before being shut down > permanently, unilaterally terminating Thing.net's 7-year-old contract. > > Affected organizations include PS1/MOMA, Artforum, Nettime, Tenant.net > (which assists renters facing eviction), and hundreds more. > > "Verio's actions are nothing short of outrageous," said Wolfgang > Staehle, Thing.net Executive Director. "They could have resolved the > matter with the Dow parodists directly; instead they chose to shut > down our entire network. This self-appointed enforcement of the DMCA > could have a serious chilling effect on free speech, and has already > damaged our business." > > > RTMark, which publicizes corporate abuses of democracy, is housed on > Thing.net. Please visit https://secure.thing.net/backbone/ to help > Thing.net survive Dow's and Verio's actions, and to develop a plan to > avoid such problems in the future. > > # 30 # > > This message is not commercial. To get off our list, write > mailto:remove@rtmark.com?subject=7-11@mail.ljudmila.org > . > If you are receiving multiple copies of this release and would > rather receive only one, remove as above all versions but one. > > > _____ _ _ # > # __/\__ |___ | / / | __/\__ |___ | / / | # > # \ / / /____| > | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| | | # > # > | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| | | # > # > | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| | | # > # > | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| | | # > # > _____ _ _ # > # __/\__ |___ | / / | __/\__ |___ | / / | # > # \ / / /____| > _____ _ _ # > # __/\__ |___ | / / | __/\__ |___ | / / | # > # \ / / /____| > | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| > \/ /_/ |_|_| \/ /_/ |_|_| # > # # > # # > #1.7.100(today="7-11.00 > # \ / > / /____| | | \ / / /____| | | # > # \ / / /____| | | \ / / /____| | | # > > > > Thank you for participating in 7-11 MAILING LIST > SUBSCRIBER > SATISFACTION SURVEY. > > > > > > ###################################################### > > #1.7.100(today="7-11.00 071101010 07110101 0711.00100# > # # > # _____ _ _ > _____ _ _ # > # __/\__ |___ | / / | __/\__ |___ | / / | # > # \ / / /____| > | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| | | # > # > \/ /_/ |_|_| \/ /_/ |_|_| # > # # > # # > #1.7.100(today="7-11.00 > 071101010 07110101 0711.00100# > ########### > http://mail.ljudmila.org/mailman/listinfo/7-11 > _____ _ _ # > # __/\__ |___ | / / | __/\__ |___ | / / | # > # \ / > / /____|################################################################## > >## ############ ########## # ### ### ## ###### > > #### ###### #### #### ###### ############## ###### > > # #### ##### #### ########## ###### ### ####### > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 23:58:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: female humour marble. Sheathed. Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit female humour marble. Sheathed. rattling. Methods trampled keep an eye on joint rattling. Methods trampled keep an eye on joint invite join join to conceal knights-errant murmuring to influence wistfully doorway intensity feverishly keep an to influence observe frate woolsey narrows. Pretends ruffled daughter free-company. Issue to influence faithfully. Heirs. Serene sharp to arrive to influence dastard. Murmuring heirs. Serene sharp to arrive to influence dastard. Murmuring daughter free-company. Issue to influence faithfully. Camorra frustrated hewn handling aught anguish. Life frustrated intrusted keep an eye on to influence to alleviate life frustrated intrusted keep an eye on to influence to alleviate pretends aught spread-eagle described damnation due search intensity invite join join to conceal knights-errant murmuring to camorra frustrated hewn handling aught anguish. Torrent-moat estate. Pretends plurality discover aloud influence wistfully doorway intensity feverishly keep an adviser at all sorry. Procession house-to announce. Stammered trumpery arrangements for example to influence apart from proves trumpery arrangements for example to influence apart from proves adviser at all sorry. Procession house-to announce. Stammered female humour marble. Sheathed. Totally effectively pretends life female humour marble. Sheathed. Totally effectively pretends life matched. Minded pretends aught spread-eagle described damnation due search intensity torrent-moat estate. Pretends plurality discover aloud frustrated north branch states brook corresponding source line frustrated north branch states brook corresponding source line rattling. Methods trampled keep an eye on joint brassart murmuring tradecustoms. Life listeners roasting fore-arm brassart murmuring tradecustoms. Life listeners roasting fore-arm matched. Minded rattling. Methods trampled keep an eye on joint transportation. Heirs. Serene sharp to arrive to influence dastard. Murmuring something to influence gnarled aught publisher camorra something to influence gnarled aught publisher camorra influence incredulously intake ease dry to acquire new heirs. Serene sharp to arrive to influence dastard. Murmuring life frustrated intrusted keep an eye on to influence to alleviate frustrated headlong obeyed crumple sincere. Life a-tremble frustrated headlong obeyed crumple sincere. Life a-tremble assented shouted free-company fat. Listener to influence life frustrated intrusted keep an eye on to influence to alleviate transportation. Trumpery arrangements for example to influence apart from proves wonderful imminence misshapen murmuring days saint francis river wonderful imminence misshapen murmuring days saint francis river influence incredulously intake ease dry to acquire new trumpery arrangements for example to influence apart from proves female humour marble. Sheathed. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 23:59:24 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: genelog Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit genelog wonderful! Granite straight ahead. Described facing wonderful! Granite straight ahead. Described facing what whereupon described melancholy wonderful fang twinkling illumining intensity to influence extricate. Breeding. Described misshapen something mend job anyway. Consummately. Murmuring crowning advised melancholy to influence besiege procession pebble intensity ventured north branch states besiege procession pebble intensity ventured north branch states consummately. Murmuring crowning advised melancholy to influence confidential superiority intensity extricating to influence joke. Brook brook issue excellent. At all watcher what whereupon described melancholy wonderful fang confidential superiority intensity extricating to influence joke. Branch states brook at strech skirts created equal. Free-company twinkling illumining intensity to influence extricate. DECLINE? To influence eminent toward declines! Murmuring granite DECLINE? To influence eminent toward declines! Murmuring granite risk afterwards pearls daughter. Minds. Keep an eye on north branch terminated. Trembling murmuring to influence lead to woolsey minded issue excellent. At all watcher risk afterwards pearls daughter. Minds. Keep an eye on north branch branch states brook at strech skirts created equal. Free-company states brook free-company awesome bottled to announce intensity dishes plurality straying warning to influence moist dishes plurality straying warning to influence moist states brook free-company awesome bottled to announce intensity darted. Hand brush described misshapen free-company. Wonderful! Granite straight ahead. Described facing subterranean dwellings nieces intensity tangle to influence subterranean dwellings nieces intensity tangle to influence terminated. Trembling murmuring to influence lead to woolsey minded wonderful! Granite straight ahead. Described facing really risk procession suggestions their keep an eye on mend besiege procession pebble intensity ventured north branch states varnishes assented cells murmuring dalliant to influence matched loaf varnishes assented cells murmuring dalliant to influence matched loaf besiege procession pebble intensity ventured north branch states darted. Hand brush described misshapen free-company. Brook tangle risk fatuity to influence egg intensity tangle. Trio to tangle risk fatuity to influence egg intensity tangle. Trio to aught grows-to subject fastened free-company walks focus extricating brook really risk procession suggestions their keep an eye on mend influence fire cocoons. Cryptic grubs devour choice nymphs influence fire cocoons. Cryptic grubs devour choice nymphs conceal to announce to influence assassin. Invests terrific. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 07:05:24 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: The latest on the Blog Comments: To: WOM-PO , new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Comments: cc: whpoets@english.upenn.edu, nanders1@swarthmore.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A new issue of Shiny: The NY School in 2002 + Lisa Jarnot's "Hound Pastoral" Charles Bernstein &/or X.J. Kennedy: A question of context from Annie Finch with a glance at Paul Celan Peter Ganick's tend.field An extremophile's poetics Close reading Jennifer Moxley Gary Sullivan: A temporal theory of humor in poetry Between the poem & the longpoem, an intermediate mode: the poem as book Pattie McCarthy's bk of (h)rs The discourse of color in Rachel Blau DuPlessis' Draft 1: It Starting a longpoem: Rachel Blau DuPlessis' Drafts On the postmodern wink: Why humor doesn't travel well in poetry It's a wise book that understands its cover: Three book designs from Lost Roads (Frank Stanford, Besmilr Brigham &Frank Stanford) http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 08:38:59 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Notice: Mudlark In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" there is a lot of very intelligent understanding/critique of malls out there, starting in the 1980s, including work by Fred Jameson, Peter Gibian, Susan Buck-Morss, et al. This looks like a very interesting and compelling book of poems, but it can't claim to be the first piece of writing to attempt to understand malls, nor can it claim that all other work is "mindless." i guess it's not making those claims to uniqueness, but there's something about the last phrase --"not to mindlessly criticize it" --that rankles. At 9:19 PM -0500 12/22/02, William Slaughter wrote: >New and On View: Mudlark Flash No. 20 (2002) > >Mall Poem | Francis Raven > >Francis Raven wrote these poems, she says, "at two vastly different malls, >the Stanford Mall in Palo Alto and Union Station in St. Louis, in order to >understand the phenomenon of the mall not to mindlessly criticize it." > >The mall is open, common and destroyed. >It is our own notion of destruction >manifest, >but it is also our own openness, >our field and food. >Our choices gone crazy, >elegance stripped away, >but this is not necessity either. >It is the wealth of anti-elitists >put to strange use, recreating >an elitism again in their own image. > >Every object in the mall >is a great idea >metastasized. > > from "Union Station" > >Spread the word. Far and wide, > >William Slaughter >_________________ >MUDLARK >An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics >Never in and never out of print... >E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu >URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 09:37:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Scharf, Michael (RBI-US)" Subject: MLA blow-out: Farrell & Grim! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ---Attention MLA delegates and New York stalwarts:--- Segue Reading Series at the Bowery Poetry Club *presents* D A N F A R R E L L & J E S S I C A G R I M ---> Bowery Poetry Club <--- 308 Bowery ...just north of Houston Saturday, December 28th 4pm (Doors open at 3:30) $4 admission goes to support the readers [Our cash bar is better than their cash bar: 2 for 1 drinks!!] ::Dan Farrell:: has been "teased in both BC and NY. Now in SF only milder. That and that. The Inkblot Record (Toronto: Coach House Books, 2000) and Last Instance (San Francisco: Krupskaya Press, 1999) on the shelf. The technophile may enjoy Graphing the News http://www.erols.com/dfar/Rmain, the collectors of memorabilia ape (Vancouver: Tsunami Editions, 1988)." http://www.arras.net/RNG/director/inkblot/ ::Jessica Grim::'s recent books are Fray (1998) and Locale (1995); a new e-book, Vexed, will soon appear in the /ubu ("slash ubu") series coming from Ubuweb (www.ubu.com). She lives in Oberlin, Ohio. http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~moriarty/grim.htm http://www.arts.uwo.ca/openlet/11.4/letters/017a.pdf So leave your cares uptown, and check us out! Curators: Laura Elrick & Michael Scharf http://www.segue.org/calendar/calendar_index.htm http://www.bowerypoetry.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 08:05:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: Notice: Mudlark In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed possibly earlier than the 1980s. I can remember a grad student I admired very much doing work on malls as "the" contemporary gathering place, a social model of sorts that was replacing downtown centers, as early as 1976, although I dont know if that work was eventually published or not. But I think the urge to both understand the malls in social and economic and political context probably began not long after such malls proliferated american suburban space. my sense of the history of malls (but not a studied sense) is that it was later that downtown urban spaces developed their own malls, possibly in competition with those suburban/regional centers. charles At 08:38 AM 12/23/2002 -0600, you wrote: >there is a lot of very intelligent understanding/critique of malls >out there, starting in the 1980s, including work by Fred Jameson, >Peter Gibian, Susan Buck-Morss, et al. This looks like a very >interesting and compelling book of poems, but it can't claim to be >the first piece of writing to attempt to understand malls, nor can it >claim that all other work is "mindless." i guess it's not making >those claims to uniqueness, but there's something about the last >phrase --"not to mindlessly criticize it" --that rankles. charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 10:02:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Re: Notice: Mudlark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lincoln Road Mall, early 1960's, Miami Beach,FL Entire street converted into open air walk with fountains and benches, lined with shops ----- Original Message ----- From: "charles alexander" To: Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 10:05 AM Subject: Re: Notice: Mudlark > possibly earlier than the 1980s. I can remember a grad student I admired > very much doing work on malls as "the" contemporary gathering place, a > social model of sorts that was replacing downtown centers, as early as > 1976, although I dont know if that work was eventually published or not. > But I think the urge to both understand the malls in social and economic > and political context probably began not long after such malls proliferated > american suburban space. my sense of the history of malls (but not a > studied sense) is that it was later that downtown urban spaces developed > their own malls, possibly in competition with those suburban/regional centers. > > charles > > At 08:38 AM 12/23/2002 -0600, you wrote: > >there is a lot of very intelligent understanding/critique of malls > >out there, starting in the 1980s, including work by Fred Jameson, > >Peter Gibian, Susan Buck-Morss, et al. This looks like a very > >interesting and compelling book of poems, but it can't claim to be > >the first piece of writing to attempt to understand malls, nor can it > >claim that all other work is "mindless." i guess it's not making > >those claims to uniqueness, but there's something about the last > >phrase --"not to mindlessly criticize it" --that rankles. > > charles alexander / chax press > > fold the book inside the book keep it open always > read from the inside out speak then > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 10:15:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Joe Strummer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Joe Strummer, founder & spirit of The Clash- is dead. He was 50 years old. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 10:20:18 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alicia Askenase Subject: Changing my account MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Poetics Listserve; I currently receive the listserve posts all day long. Can you switch me to the once a day summary? Thanks, Alicia Askenase ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 10:34:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: London's Calling Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Joe Strummer died last night. Cause of death unknown. London's Calling, indeed. Johnny Appleseed Lord, there goes Johnny Appleseed He might pass by, in the hour of need, There's a lot of souls...ain't drinking from no well, Locked in a factory, Hey look there goes, hey look there goes, If you're after getting the honey, Then you don't go killing all the bees, Lord, there goes, Martin Luther King, Notice how the door closes When the chimes of freedom ring? I hear what you're saying... I hear what he's saying... If you're after getting the honey, Then you don't go killing all the bees, That's what the people are saying, And we know every road...go! go! That's what the people are saying, There ain't no berries on the trees... Let the summertime sun, Fall on the apple, fall on the apple... Lord, there goes a Buick Forty-Nine, Black sheep of the angels riding Riding down the line, We think there is a soul...we don't know, That soul is hard to find, Hey! Down along the road, Down along the road...Hey! If you're after getting the honey... Then you don't go killing all the bees, Hey! It's what the people are saying There ain't no berries on the trees... You came to skim off the honey, baby, And you had to go killin' all the bees. --Joe Strummer LONDON (Reuters) - Joe Strummer, frontman with the Clash whose 1979 track "London Calling" exploded as one of punk's biggest anthems, has died at the age of 50, a spokesman said on Monday. The singer, guitarist and songwriter died at his home in Somerset, western England of unknown causes. "We do not yet know the cause of death, but we believe it was not suspicious and that he passed away peacefully. An autopsy will be forthcoming," the spokesman said. Born John Graham Mellor in Ankara, Turkey, Strummer's talents propelled him from busting on the London Underground to fame with the Clash, who with the Sex Pistols came to define the in-your-face sound and style of 1970s British punk. Until they split in the 1980s, the Clash produced a catalog of punk classics, including "Career Opportunities" and "Should I Stay or Should I Go?," distilling the depression, anger and energy of 1970s Britain. But they transcended the three-chord aggression to deliver messages of anti- racism and social consciousness. Strummer, the son of a British diplomat, wrote many of the band's biggest hits. "He was one of the most important figures in modern British music, a powerful performer and a wordsmith on the same level as Bob Dylan," said Pat Gilbert, editor of British music magazine Mojo "His music had compassion and vision, backed with an agenda to change the world for the better...I was shocked to hear of his death," he told Reuters. Sometimes described as rebels with a cause, the Clash fused a variety of musical styles -- reggae, dub, funk and even rap -- with a political message that brought punk to the mainstream and also found big success in the U.S. market. In 1976 Strummer met a then 23-year-old guitarist Mick Jones and linked up with bassist Paul Simonon and drummer Terry Chimes. As the Clash, the quartet made an immediate and explosive impact in Britain. Rolling Stone magazine called their 1977 eponymous debut "The definitive punk album." Follow-ups "Give 'Em Enough Rope" (1978), and "London Calling" (1979) also became instant punk classics. After The Clash split, a tireless Strummer stayed center stage with a variety of projects, dabbling in acting and writing music for films. More recently, Strummer toured with a new band, the Mescaleros, and played a benefit concert with Mick Jones in November, reuniting with his partner in punk for the first time in nearly 20 years. At the time of his death, Strummer was collaborating with U2's Bono and Dave Stewart, formerly of the Eurythmics, on an AIDS awareness track. "The Clash are to be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame next year and there was hope that there would be a reunion and a tour...this must be especially sad for their fans," Gilbert said. His death is a double blow for punk fans still mourning the fatal drug overdose in June of singer Dee Dee Ramone from legendary American band the Ramones. Strummer is survived by his wife, two daughters and one stepdaughter. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 23:29:48 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Platt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CATALOGONY 19. TUMMY TUCK PANTY discovering won't have to go on any more free cooking and easy cleanup 10" diam.; machine washable, has 3 1/2" W rod wipe-clean vinyl with a flannel back [Everything you need] this fantastic BLACK AND WHITE are easy to see from to avoid to a new level space-saving convenience. All crafted and durable, solid nated hydrocarbons, impuri- ture; on the back is detailed reproduction of a piece ing, four easy-roll casters. Whether images favorite relatives or friends. Measures which [where everybody else] probe Dishwasher safe. requisite piece set features sparkling cut-design glass slips easily into your pocket or purse for instant 20. SUPER PREMIUM FIRMEST MADE GENUINE EEL SKIN BILLFOLDS sizes with a quick-release side lock that holds without a mess of persons infected DEFECTIVE PARTS ing and more stability, while freeing the other hand for with delicate brass-accenting and green leaf motif Off-white check borders for an appetizing look. Tier your feet. Machine wash/dry BURNING DESIRE features a harnessing running water. kids love it. friends and uses 2 D batteries (not incl.); [(all brands)] dryable. No iron necessary. Imported. please specify [need it.] keep your collectibles air bubbles safe. Metal wall tells you before you go beyond it. You'll also enjoy this THE WORLD OF Raised rim prevents objects from far and the growth of mold spores, mildew and harmful bacteria, keep the Family Bible than open on this ornately gilded ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 08:11:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Francis Raven Subject: Re: Notice: Mudlark Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Thanks all for the comments on malls. My initial introduction to the poem was dumb. Charles point is especially interesting. They might be like television in that with their rise came implicit criticism of them, but not their demise. Somehow both television and malls are visited and utilized even though everyone knows the basic criticisms of them. It's also interesting for me to think about the difference between malls in different climates. Obviously, midwestern malls have to be enclosed whereas malls in miami beach do not, a fact which might alter how they are used and what they do to people. Charles last point is especially interesting to me: that urban areas developed malls to compete with suburban malls. Maybe this is where the locus of power shifts. Well, thank you again for your interesting comments on malls, if you get a chance I'd love it if you read the poems, in the meantime I'm trying to think of something to change the blurb to, Francis Raven here are the poems again: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark/flashes/raven.html >From: Michael Rothenberg Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group To: >POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Notice: Mudlark Date: Mon, 23 Dec >2002 10:02:56 -0500 > >Lincoln Road Mall, early 1960's, Miami Beach,FL > >Entire street converted into open air walk with fountains and benches, >lined with shops > >----- Original Message ----- From: "charles alexander" To: Sent: Monday, >December 23, 2002 10:05 AM Subject: Re: Notice: Mudlark > > > > possibly earlier than the 1980s. I can remember a grad student I admired > > very much doing work on malls as "the" contemporary gathering place, a > >social model of sorts that was replacing downtown centers, as early as > >1976, although I dont know if that work was eventually published or not. > >But I think the urge to both understand the malls in social and economic > >and political context probably began not long after such malls proliferated > > american suburban space. my sense of the history of malls (but not a > >studied sense) is that it was later that downtown urban spaces developed > >their own malls, possibly in competition with those suburban/regional >centers. > > charles > > At 08:38 AM 12/23/2002 -0600, you wrote: > >there >is a lot of very intelligent understanding/critique of malls > >out there, >starting in the 1980s, including work by Fred Jameson, > >Peter Gibian, >Susan Buck-Morss, et al. This looks like a very > >interesting and >compelling book of poems, but it can't claim to be > >the first piece of >writing to attempt to understand malls, nor can it > >claim that all other >work is "mindless." i guess it's not making > >those claims to uniqueness, >but there's something about the last > >phrase --"not to mindlessly >criticize it" --that rankles. > > charles alexander / chax press > > fold >the book inside the book keep it open always > read from the inside out >speak then > _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 08:04:03 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ron.silliman@VERIZON.NET Subject: NYTimes.com Article: Cyberspace Artists Paint Themselves Into a Corner This article from NYTimes.com has been sent to you by ron.silliman@verizon.net. The NY Times on Thing.Net's problems with Verio. ron.silliman@verizon.net Cyberspace Artists Paint Themselves Into a Corner December 23, 2002 By MATTHEW MIRAPAUL In a 1950's horror movie the Thing was a creature that killed before it was killed. Now in a real-life drama playing on a computer screen near you, the Thing is an Internet service provider that is having trouble staying alive. Some might find this tale equally terrifying. The Thing provides Internet connections for dozens of New York artists and arts organizations, and its liberal attitude allows its clients to exhibit online works that other providers might immediately unplug. As a result the Thing is struggling to survive online. Its own Internet-connection provider is planning to disconnect the Thing over problems created by the Thing's clients. While it may live on, its crisis illustrates how difficult it can be for Internet artists to find a platform from which they can push the medium's boundaries. Wolfgang Staehle, the Thing's founder and executive director, said the high-bandwidth pipeline connecting the Thing to the Internet would be severed on Feb. 28 because its customers had repeatedly violated the pipeline provider's policies. While the exact abuses are not known, they probably involve the improper use of corporate trademarks and generating needless traffic on other sites. If Mr. Staehle is unable to establish a new pipeline, the 100 Web sites and 200 individual customers, mostly artists, that rely on the Thing for Internet service could lose their cyberspace homes. In a telephone interview from the Thing's office in Chelsea, Mr. Staehle (pronounced SHTAW-luh) said, "It's not fair that 300 of our clients will suffer from this and I might be out of business." The Thing's pipeline is currently supplied by Verio Inc. of Englewood, Colo., which declines to comment on its troubles with the Thing. Mr. Staehle said that he had not received official word from Verio, but that the company's lawyers told the Thing the service would be cut off because of the violations. For some digital artists, these are perilous times. With the Internet's rise have come increased concerns about everything from online privacy to digital piracy. Naturally artists are addressing these matters in Internet-based works. So an online project about copyright violations inevitably violates some copyrights, and a work that warns how a computer could be spying on you could very well be spying on you. Most Internet service providers yank such works offline whenever legal challenges are raised, so open-minded providers like the Thing become an important alternative. But as Alex Galloway, a New York artist, said, "There really are no true alternative Internet service providers because connectivity is still controlled by the telecommunication companies." Mr. Staehle has learned this the hard way. The project that overheated Verio's circuits was probably a Web site created by an online group of political activists called the Yes Men. The site, at dow-chemical.com, resembled Dow Chemical's real site, at dow.com. But the contents were phony news releases and speeches that ridiculed Dow officials for being more interested in profits than in making reparations for a lethal gas leak at a Union Carbide plant (now owned by Dow) in Bhopal, India, in 1984. The hoax's supporters said it was a parody. But Dow's lawyers contacted Verio to complain that the site infringed on its trademarks, among other sins. Initially it seemed to be just another fracas over corporate logos and other forms of intellectual property on the Internet. What happened next stunned Mr. Staehle. The Yes Men project had been put online by RTMark.com, a politically active arts group that uses the Web as its base and gets its Internet service from the Thing. After Dow complained about the fake Web site, Mr. Staehle said, Verio alerted the Thing, where a technician said he was not authorized to act. Within hours Verio cut off access to RTMark.com, as well as to all the Thing's Internet customers. These included innocent victims like Artforum magazine and the P. S. 1 Contemporary Art Center in Long Island City, Queens. Starting mid-evening on Dec. 4, the Thing was offline for 16 hours. Ted Byfield, a Thing board member who teaches a course at the Parsons School of Design on the social effects of technology, would not call Verio's action censorship. Instead he said, "They hit the panic button." He compared the temporary shutdown to a meat packer who recalls all his beef products after discovering a small batch of tainted hamburger. Mr. Staehle soon discovered that his virtual supermarket might be permanently closed, too. When he called Verio to ask why his entire network had been unplugged instead of the sole offending site, he said, a Verio lawyer told him that the Thing had violated its policies repeatedly and that its contract would be terminated. Verio had shut down part of the Thing once before. In 1999 the online toy retailer eToys.com asked a California court to stop an online arts group from using its longtime Web address etoy.com. The Electronic Disturbance Theater, a Thing client, staged a virtual protest by overloading the retailer's site with traffic during the holiday season. Verio blocked access to one of the Thing's computers until the protest site's owners agreed to take it offline. These two episodes may give Verio enough cause to bump the Thing from the Internet. If so Verio would appear to be a surprising censor. In January the company earned praise from Internet-rights supporters when it refused to grant a request by the Motion Picture Association of America to shut down a Web site containing DVD-copying software. Mr. Staehle said he had no knowledge of the Yes Men site. "I am not in the business of policing my clients," he said. "I am just a carrier." Although some Thing customers pursue a radical political agenda, most do not. Even RTMark.com was included in the Internet-art section of the 2000 Whitney Biennial exhibition. One might assume that museums and other cultural organizations could provide a safe haven for challenging works. But they are just as susceptible to legal threats and technical restrictions. For instance, in May the New Museum of Contemporary Art in New York was forced to remove a surveillance-theme artwork from the Internet after its service provider said it violated its policies. Mr. Staehle said he was considering several plans that would keep the Thing alive. While he is confident that he will find another pipeline provider, he said, he is worried that customers will abandon the Thing during the transition, financially ruining it. The Thing is one of the oldest advocates of online culture. Mr. Staehle, who moved to New York from his native Germany in 1976, started the Thing in 1991 as an electronic bulletin board where artists could exchange ideas about how the new medium would affect the arts. The electronic forum continues at bbs.thing .net, where artists post projects and review works. Charles Guarino, Artforum's associate publisher, said that should the Thing vanish, "it would be a terrible loss." But he noted that the Thing's customers would simply find new, if less sympathetic, Internet service providers. Mr. Guarino said, "Everyone will still continue to exist, probably even the people who got them into all this trouble in the first place." He added, "Poor thing." http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/23/arts/design/23ARTS.html?ex=1041648643&ei=1&en=aab1c428d478b537 HOW TO ADVERTISE --------------------------------- For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters or other creative advertising opportunities with The New York Times on the Web, please contact onlinesales@nytimes.com or visit our online media kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help@nytimes.com. Copyright 2002 The New York Times Company ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 09:35:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: The questionable "is" of midwinter day In-Reply-To: <693DA4E1.2C0B36EE.01F36A84@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Last night - in addition to having the great pleasure of re-reading Bernadette M's "Midwinter's Day" - I was at a talk by a mathematician, Dr. Robert Osserman, whose book is The Poetry of the Universe. In part what was interesting to me was his analysis of "is", as in the phrase, "The universe is a stable shape." Apparently, if you map the universe as a series of concentric circles extending out from the earth, instruments can currently reach to a distance of 20 billion light years. But here's the problem of "is": What we are seeing - in terms of time - is the light of the first day" (i.e., "the big bang") of the universe. So the "is" ness of the outer limit of what we see is not reflective of a linear history at at all, but, the continuous presence we continue to see (and live with) the universe at its originating moment. I have not begun to think of the ramifications of this all present "is" in the light of the poem, or in the light of how time occurs within the structure of a poem, where phrases dip in and dip out of different spaces and times, but work to cohere as a "present time" within the poem, negating any mind drift into chronological linearity - and the sentimentality of nostalgic response that such may evoke. Ashberry's work here rings a bell as being an adept at this. Osserman's vision was indeed a sweet gift to receive on the day of the return of light. Happy holidays, Stephen Vincent ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 12:39:47 -0500 Reply-To: men2@columbia.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss Subject: Schiz* Lit: an Anthology -- Call for Work Comments: To: tarantella , "Ron. Silliman@Gte. Net" , Rob Collins , Qwertyscribe , Peter , owidnazo@dnai.com, "net.wurk][.who][" , Nancy Davis , "MuratNN@aol. com" , Moe Armstrong , Mister Kazim Ali , Miriam Yarmolinsky , Melody , Martin Felker , Martha L Deed , Mark Carlson , Marcia Brevoort , Marc Cowgill , La Roche , Kurt Sass , juvenilia@mindspring.com, JT Chan , joy pascazi , Joseph Gutstein , John Edgar , Jerry Smith , Jennifer Arbour , Jason Christie , "J. Rock Johnson" , "Imitationpoetics@Topica. Com" , Heidi Peppermint , Garth Harding , Elizabeth Drucker , Eglass98@aol.com, Eileen McGarvey , DavidE1222 , Dan Frey , CrazyComposer , Carolyn Tobolski , "Bgcoultas@aol. com" , Barney Latimer , "SCHIZOPH: Schizophrenia Discussion Group" , SUPPLE - MENTAL , twohats@egroups.com, webartery@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I propose to edit a Schiz Lit Anthology (see below-- it's a way of writing, not a pathology), initially for Web and hopefully in print. The entries will cosists of 10 poieces (poems, unreal prose, creative nonfiction) by established or emerging writers with no connection to mental illnes or psychosis and 10 entries from people who have actually experienced psychotic episodes. I plan to be highly selective and produce an anthology someone would want to read, should they ever read experimental literature. For exxmple, the best Schiz* Lit that I know was done by Clark Coolidge, James Tate, Jackson Mac Low/Anmne Tardos, Patrick McCabe, R.S. Jones, John Hollander (only in some works like Powers of Thirteen), John Yau etc., not to mention many talented younger writers I've met on the net or semn work of on the Poetics list. The book will be produced with the author's names and the bios in the back so that readers are left guesss who is a "real writer" and who is a mental patient. TO SUBMIT: Please send work to Millie Niss at men2@columbia.edu before April 1. Response will be in April, at its worst, but you may hear back sooner. Please let me know which category you want to be in, Don't call yourself a mental patient for this purpose if you are able to work and earn your own living, unless you have eperienced psychotic symptoms or severe mania, take an antipsychotic, or were hospitalizaed and forced into the full-time world of the mentlly ill with its day programs and residences etc. All contributors should write a brief bio including past writing experience, and mental health history if relevant If you have both backgrounds (mental illness and working as a writer), then either choose an identifty or else say in the bio that you are surviving despite being sick, which should be good news to all. ____________________________________________________________________________ ______________________ Below are the basic charateristics of Schiz* Lit. If you have a small piece that uses any of these techniques, please submit it. The Martians will be very happy! :) ____________________________________________________________________________ ______________________ What is Schiz* Lit? It is literature that (usually deliberately) uses the thought patterns found in schizophrenia and other thought disorder based mental illnesses. Schiz* Lit forms a large part of "experimental writing" today, and is generally written by perfectly sane people. Characterstics of Schiz* Lit: * tangentential thinking-- (on the part of the character or the narrative) story moves from related aubject to reated subject but never gets anywhere or at least not where it seemed to be going * derailment -- entire story gets taken over by another story for no reason except perhaps a coincidence (common in Schiz* Lit) or a "clang association" (encounter with a word that sounds like the word previously debing discussed * odd syntax, neologisms, circumlocutions to name things (ie "that leatherbound God thing" for "Bible" People who really do have a mental illness do this because they have forgotton the regular word, but the effect can be arresting). invented languages of one's own * no plot or an absurd one * perseveration -- repetition with minor variations so that narration ends up ranting at the reader * elements of paranoia or grandiosity * ideas of reference -- things that happen in the outside world have special meaning for a character, unrelated to any rational connection (ie a church bell convinces person that they must flee Pennysylvania becuase they are the secret theif of the Liberty Bell) The ideas of reference can be in the narration as well--- the narrator or plot cann involve the relating of unrelated things * bizarre, inexplicable behavior. Often done by secondary characters whiile main character acts "perfectly normal" -- or so he thinks * weird humor: funnny in a very prticular, rather intellectual but also potentially side splitting, way, often due to logical incongruities or visual/object incongruities * voices: talking plants (or plants with feelings), animals, mailboxes, jewelry, holy objects, etc. Or else character hears voices. Or voices are "really" present, urging charcter to join a nonexistent cause or to perform silly rituals * visions: in literature, often of dead people, but can be of anything. Insects are common. Little green men who know the meaning of life. Tolstoy reading War and Peace (in serbo croation) at his own grave, crossing out the longueurs... * word salad: combinations of words that don't make sense at all but may be evocative, ege Jacson Mac Low's Twenties or much of Brice Andrews. * hebephrenia: silliness and inability to stick to anything either real or serious * lack of emotional depth or else agitation and over-intensity (in narration or character) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 09:55:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pete Balestrieri Subject: The Greek of the river MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The Greek of the river of To of You were 03 Acrab of the alpha of the river marks You were with letters to shape of sign of omission 02? The Arabic inherent name finishes them of Aqrab of the an-Nahr of Akhir ' calls the an-Nahr of Acamar Akhir of meant star 01 of submersible finishes them of scorpion? Maidens di Adhara of To of Adhara of leo 06 of Zeta of wools of the volume of Dafirah of the publicity of 05 CNC Adhafera of the alpha of the nail of Sco 0Âcubens Az-Zubana '? Taurus "of the eye" of but 07 Ain ' Ain? Swallower of the island of Male baby minders of To of Tau 08 Albali '? To the Yamin "of seguicamma" the Pleiades alpha Tau 11 Alderamin ADH Dhira ' of Dabaran of the publicity of Crv 10 Aldebaran of the alpha of it stretches of Khiba ' of To of Aqr 09 Alchibah? Corrected front forearm? Equal group of Firq of To of Alfirk of circle 12 of probability of the alpha? To equal of Algedi of circle 13 of probabilities the alpha of the goat of Jady it puts over a range giant of Jabbar of To of Algebar of leo 16 of nail 15 of Janb of To of Algenib of protection 14 of Algieba of To of Jabhah of lateral the range lion "of the forehead"? Ghost of the corpse of the food of Ghul of To of ALGOL of Gold 17? Every To the Ghurab of 18 Algorab raven the range horse of dusk of Jawn of To of Alioth of gem 20 of the mark of marks of Han' ah of To of Crv 19 Alhena of delta? UMa 21 cables of Alkaid AlQa' id "an luminous alpha Crane 26 Alnair An-Nayyir one luminous Zeta Cen 27 Alnilam An-Nidham di AlnairAn-Nayyir of the gem range 25 that" To of pain of Almak cathoderay ' Anaq of tube 23 of the alpha of the cup of the potassio of To of Eta UMa 22 Alkes of maidens the range of the child of the earth of Ard and the 24 lustri of Maisan of To of Almeisan imperla? To the hermit Fakkah di Hya 30Alphecca of the alpha of Fard of To of Zeta the 29 Gold Alphard of the tape conveyor of the alpha of the horse of Surrat tightens of 28 Gold Alnitak An-Nitaq a "alpha CrB 31 Alpheratz of the star and the cut ring Athafi" of the navel of 32 Faras "of To of To of Alsafi three remains of the foot" is the altair of baking 34 has not piloted in the translation lambda of GE but the 33 Dra Alsuhail Suhail of the silicone the Vel in Ta' ir "" alpha the 35 Aql Altais of the Aquila in order to take one fast look around" to maidenhead the Eta but of Udhrah of To of Aludra of leo 37 of Dra 36 Alterf of the snake of Tinnin in Tarf "To of dawn of the 38 membranes of the wings of the south membrane one of the wing of Qafzah" not hardly the jump "xi UMa 39 crosspiece To flying of Borealis of membranes the wing of Qafzah to north the Greek of the sheep of To of Phe 43 Arkab of the alpha of finis ' of Anka ' of To of the Tau2 river You were 42 Ankaa di Alyah of To of NuUMa 40 Alya of knows to you" of the membrane "not as soon as it marks you stretch some with letters fat of Achilles of the foot of the tail of Urqub of the curve of the an-Nahr of Ser41 to shape of sign of omission Angetenar ' Arjat To the ' Atiq "the shoulder" Pleiades Omicron di Mu Dra 46 Atik of the dancer of the Lep 45 Arrakis Ar-Raqis of the alpha of the lepri of Arnab of To of Sgr 44 every Arneb To the virtual Udhi di Azha of image 48 of delta of the barker ' of Awwa ' of To the 47auva broods To of 54 Gold Botein of the alpha to shape of sign of omission of the Omicron1 egg Was 52 Benetnash Banat Na' sh Orion of the abdomen of Baten Kaitos Batn Qaytus of nail 50 of letters of the Greek of the domestic animal of Baid of To of Biham Cetus Zeta Cet 51 Beid of To of Eta Was 49 Baham of the place? To the Kaff "palm" Pleiades di Ari 55 Caph of delta of the abdomen of Jauza ' Butain of the derived one of To of Eta UMa 53 Betelgeuse small Yad? Dog of the shepherd of ar-Ra' of Cas 56 Celbalrai Kalb? The Greek of the ribbing of Kharat of To of Oph 57 Chort marks the chair with letters of Kursi of To of Cursa of the leo to shape of sign of omission 58? Dhabih "Cetus of You were 59 Dabih Sa' d ADH? To of Cet 64 Denebola Dhanab the delta of the goat of the tail of Asad it puts over one focena of the tail of Deneb Kaitos Dhanab Qaytus of protection 63? Slaughterer of the tail of Dulfin of the publicity of Cyg 61 Deneb Dhanab of the alpha of the hen of the tail of Jady of To of Of the 62 Deneb Algedi Dhanab "? It puts over a fortunate lion of the star of the tail of Dajajah of the publicity of Deneb Dhanab of protection 60? Frog of Difdi of the publicity of Diphda of leo 65 '? Index standard Dra 70 Edasich ADH Dhikh of delta of scorpion "of the forehead" of Jabhah of To of Cet 67 Dschubba di Sco 68 Dubhe of the publicity of Dubb of the bear of the alpha of UMa 69 Dziban ADH Dhi' ban two of secondary pollution of the lupi? it chases the rinfianco of EL Nath An-Nath of iota Dra 71? Tau 72 Eltanin in the range nose of Anf of To of Dra 7Énif of the large snake of Tinnin? The Furud mouth "individual" of the hut of To of Fomalhaut Fam of circle 75 of probability of equal of range of the shepherd of PsA 76 FurudAl of the alpha of the fish of Errai Ar-Ra' of nail 74 holds the starter shaft of the wing range of Janah of To of Crv 78 Gienah of the wing of Janah of To of Zeta but the 77 Gienah of the cable? To the Ghumaisa di Cyg 79 Gomeisa ' bleary-eyed one? Translation of mile 80 Hadar Hadar? The fortunate star Zeta white woman of the noble person of feeling "of the humam of To" of the point lambda the Gold 83homam Sa' d of Haq' ah of To of Plows 82 Heka of the alpha of the ram of Hamal of To of Cen 81 Hamal sews the material of the cotton of the life of Izar of To the 8Îzar? The cuts of Nu Sco 86 Kaffaljidhma of scorpion "of the forehead" of Jabhah of To of Boo 85 Jabbah of To of Kaff di secondary Jadhma of To ' open To the range Qaus one of dawn of Cet 87 Kaus of the short hand of the south "to the curving"? To of the Qaus north one of Sgr 88 Kaus Borealis "fold between" To the Qaus mean one of lambda Sgr 89 Kaus "to the star of Kaukab of To of Equ 92 Kokab of the alpha of the horse of the members of Faras of To the cut Qaid of the Omicron2 covers You were yourself 91 Kitalpha Qit' at of the egg of To of Sgr 90 Keid of delta of the curving"? To the Qurhah "flame" of UMi 93 Kurhah stings To the Mi' sam of Upsilon Sco 95 Maasym in equal wrist lambda of Las' ah of To of Lesath of circle 94 of probability of forehead xi of the horse she To the Ma' z of 96 Maaz he goat? To the Mabsutah "fortunate star of Mebsuta of nail 100 of Eta" of the rain "of Matar Sa' d Matar of nail 99 of the alpha of the horse" of the shoulder "of Faras of To of the elbow lambda the Oph 98 Markab Mankib di Mirfaq of To of Aur 97 Marfik outstretched" the claw? To the Maghriz di Megrez of gem 101 "the insertion selects To the Maqbudah of lambda 103 Gold Mekbuda" that "sopportato the UMa delta of tail 102 lustri of Maisan of To of Meissa in order pulling within" claw the support of Menkalinan Mankib Mahler of gem 104 of Zeta? Alpha Cet 106 Menkib AlMankib "shoulder" Pleiades xi of the narice of Minkhar of the shoulder of Inan of To ' of Dhi of To of Aur 105 every Menkar the life of Maraqq of To of 107 Merak? Material of the cotton of the life of Mi' zar of To of 109 Gold Mirak of delta of the tape the conveyor of Mintaqah of To of UMa 108 Mintaka? With To the Mirfaq of 110 Mirfak "elbow" the alpha of every Pleiades 111 roarer hermit of Mufrid a Eta Boo 114 MurzimAl Murzim of To of Muphrid of alpha 3113 of the triangle of Muthallath of To of Zeta UMa 112 Mothallah of the life of Maraqq of To of Mizar? Fortunate star of Baqqar of 115 but 116 protection Nashira Sa' d Nashirah Nashirah (translation) of To the range of Nekkar that pasce? The arrow Sgr 118 range Nihal di Boo 117 Nasl An-Nasl the camel of An-Nihal extinguishes their made thirsty one? Lep 119 Nusakan An-Nasaqan two series? Genuflessioni di Pherkad AlFarqad of To of CrB120 Okda ' Uqdah the alloy To the range of the radio of UMi 125 Rasalased of the year-old calf head of Jathi of To of the radio of Rasalgethi of leo 126 of Mu of the lion that the thigh UMa range of Fakhidh of To of the column 123 Phad of the alpha of the dove of Fakhitah of To of Psc 121 Phact of alpha 124 drains the Asad before an alpha snake of its of 127 Rasalhague of the Hawwa radio of To '? Foot equestrian of Cen 131 Risha Ar-Risha of the alpha of the first place ath-Thu' ban of the radio of Oph 128 Rastaban of the alpha of the person of the snake of Dra 129 Rigel Ar-Rijl? Star of the fortunate star of the foot of Gold 130Rigilkent Rijl Qanturus ' the alpha Sgr 134 alpha range Aqr 138 Sadalsuud Sa' d an exceptional Mu of the king of Aqr 136 Sadalbari of stretches of Sabiq and of Sabik of the ginocchio of 133 Cas Rukbat Ar-Rukbah of delta of the ginocchio of 132 Psc RukbahAr-Rukbah of the alpha of the rope it sews To the lucky person Bary di Sa' d of the star of Malik of To of 137sadalmelik Sa' d in first To the Akhbiyah di Eta 135 Oph fortunate Sadachbia Sa' d ' and lucks of Su' ud? Fortune of Aqr 139 Sadr and range Cyg140 Saiph of the breast of Sadr and Kappa sword Gold 141 piedino of Saq and Scheat di Saif? Sews the submarine lambda the Sco 143 Shedir of scorpion of Shaulah of the ash 142shaula the tail and the alpha the 144 Cas Sheratan of the breast of Sadr that increases alpha two of the horse of Sharatan of the ash simbolizza? To of Plows 145 Sirrah Surrat the navel of 146 Faras and Skat and delta 147 Aqr dawn of the south range Ath-Thaniyah one of 148 Lyr Tania of the tortoise of Sulahfah and Sulafat of the piedino of Saq "in the second place" jump "in the second place" Mu of the north 149 UMa Tania Borealis Ath-Thaniyah one to the dawn of the south Ath-Thalithah one of jump lambda the 150 UMa Talitha "third" to the Kappa jump of the north 151 UMa Talitha Borealis Ath-Thalithah one "third party" to the jump iota the 152 UMa Tarf in order to take one fast look around "to the lion in Tarf"? The neck Waqi di Hayyah of To of Dra 154 Unukalhai ' Unuq ' of the alpha "of the snake of To of Ser 155 Vega of the alpha of the snake of 153 CNC Thuban Ath-Thu' ban the curve" alpha Lyr 156 the weight of Wazn of To of Wazn of gem 157 of delta of the sky of Wasat Wasat of the Aquila and Sama centers them ' "" To one of but 159 the Yad Yed of delta of the weight of Wazn of To of the 158 column Wezen in advance payment" "? that In the Yad it succeeds behind before "" a delta Oph 160 Yed; Angle of Oph 161 Zaniah Az-Zawiyah? Virtual Barker of Zaurac Az-Zawraq of image 162? To the range ' Awwa ' of You were 163zavijava Zawiyat of image 164 of Zubenelgenubi Az-Zuban of the virtual crucible of To of the south the alpha of the nail of free Janubi of angle the nail of the north of Shamali of the ash of 165 Zubeneshamali Az-Zuban? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 19:04:35 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: laura oliver Subject: Re: Joe Strummer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Frank Sherlock >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Joe Strummer >Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 10:15:42 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from acsu.buffalo.edu ([128.205.7.57]) by >mc6-f27.law1.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Mon, 23 Dec >2002 07:16:29 -0800 >Received: (qmail 25794 invoked from network); 23 Dec 2002 15:16:18 -0000 >Received: from listserv.buffalo.edu (listserv@128.205.7.35) by >deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 23 Dec 2002 15:16:18 -0000 >Received: from LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU by LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >(LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 36716122 for >POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU; Mon, 23 Dec 2002 10:16:01 -0500 >Received: (qmail 10858 invoked from network); 23 Dec 2002 15:15:48 -0000 >Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (205.188.157.38) by listserv.buffalo.edu >with SMTP; 23 Dec 2002 15:15:48 -0000 >Received: from Revfic01@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id > h.68.2a963c3a (15876) for ; Mon, 23 >Dec 2002 10:15:42 -0500 (EST) >Received: from aol.com (mow-m30.webmail.aol.com [64.12.137.7]) by >air-id07.mx.aol.com (v90.10) with ESMTP id MAILINID73-1223101542; >Mon, 23 Dec 2002 10:15:42 1900 >X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 >Message-ID: <3C76D111.65DFB427.0080AC7C@aol.com> >Sender: UB Poetics discussion group >Precedence: list >Return-Path: owner-poetics@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Dec 2002 15:16:29.0315 (UTC) >FILETIME=[44A31530:01C2AA96] > >Joe Strummer, founder & spirit of The Clash- is dead. He was 50 years old. How? _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_eliminateviruses_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 11:18:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Activists take faith in peace to Iraq Some vow to stay even if war comes In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2002/12/23/ MN174778.DTL ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 14:32:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Re: Joe Strummer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Strummer died in his sleep- presumably a heart attack. A suspicious death has been ruled out. Frank ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 14:51:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: Joe Strummer (1952-2002) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Death or Glory Every cheap hood strikes a Bargain with the world And ends up making payments on a Sofa or a Girl Love 'n' hate tattooed across the knuckles of His hands The hands that slap his kids around cos they don't understand... How death or glory becomes just another story 'N' every gimmick hungry yob digging gold from rock n' roll Grabs the mike to tell us he'll die before he's sold But I believe in this--and it's been tested by research That he who fucks nuns will later join the church From every dingy basement on every dingy street I hear every dragging handclap over every dragging feet That's just the beat of time--The beat that must go on If you been trying for years--Then we already heard your song _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 15:06:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: The Next Big Thing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Check out the radio piece Sean Cole produced featuring me at: http://wnyc.org/shows/tnbt/episodes/current Rich Verse One of the strangest news stories of this year has to be the announcement that POETRY Magazine is the proud recipient of a $100 million bequest. We’re left wondering… what on earth are they going to do with $100 million? Next Big Thing contributor Sean Cole trails poet Jim Behrle as he attempts to live the life of a poet and a millionaire for a day. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_advancedjmf_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 16:51:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: YOUR POETRY Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed YOUR POETRY Your poetry makes me feel a little underdressed. For your butterflies are cute. They make me think "thank you." (And I didn't even say "MAKES MINE LOOKS LIKE QUIVERING JELLY!") Visons, makes my mind word to figure out the coded puzzles. Thanks be to the one who suggested your web site. For I will visit often. For the world has an ethereal quality to it. For music touches my heart chord. For I'm not the only person with "the same problems." Thank you. Even in the form of a migraine. Just like a gothic Martha Stewart. Furthermore, the experience of reading your poetry, makes it difficult for me to learn that you are only 17. You are truely a talented elfwood lysator. Snippity snip fucking snip. Your poetry makes me PEE MY PANTS, Little Sister. That's a GOOD thing. Your poetry makes me want to bang my head on the computer desk over and over. i like poetry a lot, and i'll send it to this list, and you will like it too, because i like your poetry, your poetry makes for a good result here and there and I want to provide a publishing arena where your poetry makes a difference to others as well as yourselves let's let others know what it feels like to make sense. You know we were talking about Vietnam but your poetry makes it clear that the American obsession, commitment to violence, has extended well beyond that. I'm not posting my stuff anymore because Your poetry makes mine look really stupid! :oP. Your poetry makes me kinda sad that you do this.... not that I can talk. Your poetry makes me think that you're the first to understand, the first to make this sea- sick shark see land Your poetry makes me CRY! You're a good poet, but you're CRAZY. Hearing you read was like grinding razor blades down my ear canal! I can only paint the echoes that your poetry makes onto the earth of my ears. __________________________________________ [Searched the Web for "your poetry makes"] _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 14:35:50 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: 1.ooo.oo In-Reply-To: <000101c2a849$d17cef20$6414d8cb@ahadada.gol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable from: a diary of lies 1.000.00 I recently discovered I was writing this secret diary, totally = unaware=20 of the fact that I was keeping this secret dairy well, that=92s not quite true. there was always this feeling I was doing something I didn=92t = know I=20 was doing, but you know, I never quite knew what it was. before the second annual event of animalism-in-the-park became a=20= national past time, the idea of inventing came to mind, which had=20 little to do with the before mentioned popular event, such as what can=20= happen when creating small nuclear devices. well, it wasn=92t so much=20 what I remember, but partly, except I was sitting in the office that I=20= wasn=92t thinking of and got this message attached as a post script that=20= said =93I hope you think what I am doing is o.k.?=94 I am here, doubting cellular cohesion, wishing I could find the = fuse=20 box and my position has worried my doctor, who ordered a mammogram,=20 sonogram, a singing telegram and I am supposed to know what=92s o.k.? really, what=92s the standard practice here? how do you politely = decline=20 monthly payments and not worry about being labeled a heretic and sent=20 to the gallows? yes, your honor, it=92s true, I have plotted my sperm donor=92s = death now=20 for sometime, it seemed quite equitable, and at times beyond=20 counterfeit thought. oh well, some of it could have to do with the talking bugs = bunny, that=20 when you pulled its string would say =93daddy daddy which way is the = best=20 way?=94 or =93what=92s up doc?=94 you see, we had this understanding. I = could=20 use words that daddy didn=92t understand like egalitarian and jet=20 propulsion systems. it all seemed like a comfortable bark-a-lounger=20 that had the vibration set for twenty in the lean back position with a=20= life death sex manual ready to take over if I got lost, or daddy=20 decided to play six shooter . . . bang-bang your dead. ooh no, ooh no, the plans go way back to an agreement based on = the=20 final meal. our feet would be washed with a number ten oil. we would=20 choose a boy or girl child for salvation, while from the back came=20 screams of =93ooh jesus this=94 or =93ohh jesus that.=94 whenever I = heard that=20 scream, I=92d say, =93oh jesus you=92re at it again.=94 just then the = cavalier=20 proprietor said =93that=92s right,=94 and I said =93that=92s right,=94 = just as the=20 proprietor brought everyone giblet-a-la-gratin. so yea, it=92s been that=20= long, maybe longer. it was six or seven month before something or most things that = came=20 before my eyes were before that. and then I said, =93so this is the beginning.=94 and then I = said, =93so it=20 begins.=94 and then the beginning was put into place and you know bugs=20= bunny was already saying =93daddy, daddy, which way is best for the=20 second coming,=94 and just then I was told I was old enough to follow = the=20 leader. yes, it=92s like an long unpaid debt, and some would say, =93it=92= s so not=20 like you,=94 and I keep saying =93daddy, daddy which way is the best = way,=94=20 and I keep saying =93daddy which way is the best way, is this o.k.?=20 please tell me daddy, please?=94 > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 22:55:03 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Follari Subject: reply to Milli Vanilli Comments: To: men2@columbia.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear Millie, don't mean to be rude, but please don't send me this type of e-mail. Regards Tony Follari Artist/Comedian >From: Millie Niss >Reply-To: men2@columbia.edu >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Schiz* Lit: an Anthology -- Call for Work >Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 12:39:47 -0500 > >I propose to edit a Schiz Lit Anthology (see below-- it's a way of writing, >not a pathology), initially for Web and hopefully in print. The entries >will cosists of 10 poieces (poems, unreal prose, creative nonfiction) by >established or emerging writers with no connection to mental illnes or >psychosis and 10 entries from people who have actually experienced >psychotic >episodes. > >I plan to be highly selective and produce an anthology someone would want >to >read, should they ever read experimental literature. For exxmple, the best >Schiz* Lit that I know was done by Clark Coolidge, James Tate, Jackson Mac >Low/Anmne Tardos, Patrick McCabe, R.S. Jones, John Hollander (only in some >works like Powers of Thirteen), John Yau etc., not to mention many talented >younger writers I've met on the net or semn work of on the Poetics list. > >The book will be produced with the author's names and the bios in the back >so that readers are left guesss who is a "real writer" and who is a mental >patient. > >TO SUBMIT: Please send work to Millie Niss at men2@columbia.edu before >April >1. Response will be in April, at its worst, but you may hear back sooner. >Please let me know which category you want to be in, Don't call yourself a >mental patient for this purpose if you are able to work and earn your own >living, unless you have eperienced psychotic symptoms or severe mania, take >an antipsychotic, or were hospitalizaed and forced into the full-time world >of the mentlly ill with its day programs and residences etc. > >All contributors should write a brief bio including past writing >experience, and mental health history if relevant If you have both >backgrounds (mental illness and working as a writer), then either choose an >identifty or else say in the bio that you are surviving despite being sick, >which should be good news to all. >____________________________________________________________________________ >______________________ >Below are the basic charateristics of Schiz* Lit. If you have a small >piece >that uses any of these techniques, please submit it. The Martians will be >very happy! :) >____________________________________________________________________________ >______________________ > >What is Schiz* Lit? > >It is literature that (usually deliberately) uses the thought patterns >found >in schizophrenia and other thought disorder based mental illnesses. Schiz* >Lit forms a large part of "experimental writing" today, and is generally >written by perfectly sane people. Characterstics of Schiz* Lit: > > * tangentential thinking-- (on the part of the character or the >narrative) >story moves from related aubject to reated subject but never gets anywhere >or at least not where it seemed to be going > * derailment -- entire story gets taken over by another story for >no reason >except perhaps a coincidence (common in Schiz* Lit) or a "clang >association" >(encounter with a word that sounds like the word previously debing >discussed > > * odd syntax, neologisms, circumlocutions to name things (ie "that >leatherbound God thing" for "Bible" People who really do have a mental >illness do this because they have forgotton the regular word, but the >effect >can be arresting). invented languages of one's own > > * no plot or an absurd one > > * perseveration -- repetition with minor variations so that >narration ends >up ranting at the reader > > * elements of paranoia or grandiosity > > * ideas of reference -- things that happen in the outside world >have >special meaning for a character, unrelated to any rational connection (ie >a >church bell convinces person that they must flee Pennysylvania becuase they >are the secret theif of the Liberty Bell) The ideas of reference can be in >the narration as well--- the narrator or plot cann involve the relating of >unrelated things > > * bizarre, inexplicable behavior. Often done by secondary >characters >whiile main character acts "perfectly normal" -- or so he thinks > > * weird humor: funnny in a very prticular, rather intellectual but >also >potentially side splitting, way, often due to logical incongruities or >visual/object incongruities > > * voices: talking plants (or plants with feelings), animals, >mailboxes, >jewelry, holy objects, etc. Or else character hears voices. Or voices are >"really" present, urging charcter to >join a nonexistent cause or to perform silly rituals > > * visions: in literature, often of dead people, but can be of >anything. >Insects are common. Little green men who know the meaning of life. >Tolstoy >reading War and Peace (in serbo croation) at his own grave, crossing out >the >longueurs... > > * word salad: combinations of words that don't make sense at all >but may be >evocative, ege Jacson Mac Low's Twenties or much of Brice Andrews. > > * hebephrenia: silliness and inability to stick to anything either >real or >serious > > * lack of emotional depth or else agitation and over-intensity (in >narration or character) >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---------------------- _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_eliminateviruses_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 20:42:09 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Is this true? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT As reported recently in the New York Times, Andre Breton's studio at 42 Rue Fontaine, Paris, which has been kept intact since his death, is about to be dismantled and its contents sold at auction. Following is a petition of protest, urging instead the establishment of a museum. If you want to participate, please add your name to the bottom and email a copy to J Karl Bogartte , who is administering the petition. >-------------Forwarded Message----------------- > >Date: 20/12/02 10:44 PM > >RE: Sale (uitverkoop) of the atelier of André Breton > >http://www.geocities.com/surrealisme_in_nederland/ > > No Sale > >We, the undersigned, support any and all opposition to the 2003 >CalmelsCohen, Drouot-Richelieu sale of the collections of Andre Breton. >We find the very idea of this event to be repugnant, and contrary to the best >accounting of the History of the Twentieth Century. > >Together, the manuscripts, books, objects, and art within Andre Breton's >studio at 42 Rue Fontaine are very different from other "great collections." >Together, they represent a multicultural Idea the likes of which has never >before been seen in Europe or elsewhere. Together, and only together they >create a Marvelous Site with more historic significance than many in Paris. >Anyone who has ever had the experience of seeing this Place from the >inside knows its worth to be far beyond the sum total of its contents. It must >be preserved. > >We in the US cannot imagine how, in all of France, there is not the >wherewithal to establish a permanent place to house this vastly important >international collection. Furthermore, we intend to support in any way >possible the establishment of such a place. > >The Gustave Moreau, Freud's Berggasse 19, Adolph Wolfli's Room, The >Watts Towers of Los Angeles . . . were all places once on the verge of >oblivion. > >We say in the spirit of those great places, >please, no sale. > >Thom Burns Email > >J Karl Bogartte > >Laurance Weisberg Los Angeles CA > >Raman Rao > >Paul Weisz-Carrington > >Andrew Lass, Prof. of Anthropology, Mount Holyoke College, South >Hadley, MA > >Jeanne Brooks Matthews (Widow of J.H. Matthews- Syracuse University) > >Jack J. Spector, Prof. of Art History, Rutgers University, New Brunswick, >N.J. > >Willie Gregory > >M.E. Warlick, University of Denver > >Allan Graubard > >Robert Sharrard (USA) > >Nanos Valaoritis (USA) > >Marie Wilson (USA) > >Nancy J. Peters (USA) > >Philip Lamantia C/O City Lights Books (USA) > >Lawrence Ferlinghetti C/O City Lights Books (USA) > >Rik Lina (NL) > >Bastiaan van der Velden > >Alastair Brotchie (UK) > >Damon Krukowski & Naomi Yang, Exact Change (USA) %=\|/___```'''> person http://trbell.tripod.com/Iam/index.htm poet http://trbell.tripod.com/Iam/map.htm http://www.metaphormetonym.com/ psychologist http://www.healthandage.com/Home/gm=0!gc=15!gid2=1259 instructor http://www.metaphormetonym.com/writing.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 18:09:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: reply to Millin Vanillin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Millie, Thanks for sending this out and good luck with your anthology. I forwarded this to my brother and he was very excited about this project. Please send these kind of emails Regards, Geoffrey Gatza, R.D.R.R ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Follari" To: Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 5:55 PM Subject: reply to Milli Vanilli > Dear Millie, > don't mean to be rude, but please don't send me this type > of e-mail. > > Regards Tony Follari Artist/Comedian > > > > > > > >From: Millie Niss > >Reply-To: men2@columbia.edu > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Schiz* Lit: an Anthology -- Call for Work > >Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 12:39:47 -0500 > > > >I propose to edit a Schiz Lit Anthology (see below-- it's a way of writing, > >not a pathology), initially for Web and hopefully in print. The entries > >will cosists of 10 poieces (poems, unreal prose, creative nonfiction) by > >established or emerging writers with no connection to mental illnes or > >psychosis and 10 entries from people who have actually experienced > >psychotic > >episodes. > > > >I plan to be highly selective and produce an anthology someone would want > >to > >read, should they ever read experimental literature. For exxmple, the best > >Schiz* Lit that I know was done by Clark Coolidge, James Tate, Jackson Mac > >Low/Anmne Tardos, Patrick McCabe, R.S. Jones, John Hollander (only in some > >works like Powers of Thirteen), John Yau etc., not to mention many talented > >younger writers I've met on the net or semn work of on the Poetics list. > > > >The book will be produced with the author's names and the bios in the back > >so that readers are left guesss who is a "real writer" and who is a mental > >patient. > > > >TO SUBMIT: Please send work to Millie Niss at men2@columbia.edu before > >April > >1. Response will be in April, at its worst, but you may hear back sooner. > >Please let me know which category you want to be in, Don't call yourself a > >mental patient for this purpose if you are able to work and earn your own > >living, unless you have eperienced psychotic symptoms or severe mania, take > >an antipsychotic, or were hospitalizaed and forced into the full-time world > >of the mentlly ill with its day programs and residences etc. > > > >All contributors should write a brief bio including past writing > >experience, and mental health history if relevant If you have both > >backgrounds (mental illness and working as a writer), then either choose an > >identifty or else say in the bio that you are surviving despite being sick, > >which should be good news to all. > >___________________________________________________________________________ _ > >______________________ > >Below are the basic charateristics of Schiz* Lit. If you have a small > >piece > >that uses any of these techniques, please submit it. The Martians will be > >very happy! :) > >___________________________________________________________________________ _ > >______________________ > > > >What is Schiz* Lit? > > > >It is literature that (usually deliberately) uses the thought patterns > >found > >in schizophrenia and other thought disorder based mental illnesses. Schiz* > >Lit forms a large part of "experimental writing" today, and is generally > >written by perfectly sane people. Characterstics of Schiz* Lit: > > > > * tangentential thinking-- (on the part of the character or the > >narrative) > >story moves from related aubject to reated subject but never gets anywhere > >or at least not where it seemed to be going > > * derailment -- entire story gets taken over by another story for > >no reason > >except perhaps a coincidence (common in Schiz* Lit) or a "clang > >association" > >(encounter with a word that sounds like the word previously debing > >discussed > > > > * odd syntax, neologisms, circumlocutions to name things (ie "that > >leatherbound God thing" for "Bible" People who really do have a mental > >illness do this because they have forgotton the regular word, but the > >effect > >can be arresting). invented languages of one's own > > > > * no plot or an absurd one > > > > * perseveration -- repetition with minor variations so that > >narration ends > >up ranting at the reader > > > > * elements of paranoia or grandiosity > > > > * ideas of reference -- things that happen in the outside world > >have > >special meaning for a character, unrelated to any rational connection (ie > >a > >church bell convinces person that they must flee Pennysylvania becuase they > >are the secret theif of the Liberty Bell) The ideas of reference can be in > >the narration as well--- the narrator or plot cann involve the relating of > >unrelated things > > > > * bizarre, inexplicable behavior. Often done by secondary > >characters > >whiile main character acts "perfectly normal" -- or so he thinks > > > > * weird humor: funnny in a very prticular, rather intellectual but > >also > >potentially side splitting, way, often due to logical incongruities or > >visual/object incongruities > > > > * voices: talking plants (or plants with feelings), animals, > >mailboxes, > >jewelry, holy objects, etc. Or else character hears voices. Or voices are > >"really" present, urging charcter to > >join a nonexistent cause or to perform silly rituals > > > > * visions: in literature, often of dead people, but can be of > >anything. > >Insects are common. Little green men who know the meaning of life. > >Tolstoy > >reading War and Peace (in serbo croation) at his own grave, crossing out > >the > >longueurs... > > > > * word salad: combinations of words that don't make sense at all > >but may be > >evocative, ege Jacson Mac Low's Twenties or much of Brice Andrews. > > > > * hebephrenia: silliness and inability to stick to anything either > >real or > >serious > > > > * lack of emotional depth or else agitation and over-intensity (in > >narration or character) > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > >---------------------- > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 3 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&S U= > http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_eliminatevi ruses_3mf > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 03:00:11 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Platt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CATALOGONY 21. SET OF 2 TOOTHPASTE TUBE SQUEEZERS spill resistant. Works [Yes! Free Report!] A VARIETY Works beautifully with a ming shut. So appealing effortless, yet wood lip. Lacquered nat-GOLDTONE adds its special touch of charm to any setting. becomes a luxury model with this clever screen-printed in any room. It can be displayed as is or thus stick to glass. Adheres on contact. Grid muscles. Both pivoting heads have equal ed in a variety of charming colors UNDERLYING SIGNIFICANCE with nylon zipper closing; made in required [the sounds Nozzles simply screw on/off --- no need to change works extended and developed into a small footprint of White, Ivory, Blue, Mauve, Navy, Burgundy 22. .............THE HAIR FUNNEL mounting pole it's there. Solid wood in a plant or collectable. [(many choices!)] er latches firmly behind molding. Shelf more complicated timeless styling of this space-saving anytime you want super-fresh breath. top offers cooler comfort when without having to wear shape with stretch panels; THE STRATEGIES lets you machine washable. Holds shape. (sold separately) stitching, side pockets. and why reaches a height of 50 ft. spreads 30 ft. these risks is based on common sense and the reading glasses, etc. Made in USA; machine washable. that gets rid of up to 80% of the RAISED FLORAL ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 01:13:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: byteloop #0007 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE PAUL WHITNEY COLLECTION byteloop #0007..................excerpt www.the-hyper-age.com Nestor resumed Nestor resumed Nestor unbarred resumed Nestor amazement unbarred resumed amazement unbarred amazement unbarred amazement bitterly bitterly bitterly made carrying bitterly few Lovers continued made carrying few Lovers continued made carrying few Lovers continued made carrying few Lovers continued all all all see smothered all leaps burns see smothered leaps burns see smothered leaps burns see smothered leaps burns slipped Fletcher Carter slipped wrapping Fletcher Carter slipped wrapping Fletcher Carter slipped wrapping Fletcher Carter Monk admiration wrapping misguided Monk admiration misguided Monk admiration misguided Monk admiration few wishing misguided remained drawn unbolted few wishing remained drawn unbolted few wishing forgot remained drawn unbolted few wishing forgot remained drawn unbolted forgot forgot hadn't memories crossed Comanche Doc kept hadn't ventured memories crossed Comanche Doc kept hadn't thinking intently? ventured memories crossed troubles pleasantries Comanche Doc kept hadn't mischief thinking intently? ventured memories crossed all troubles pleasantries Comanche Doc kept mischief thinking intently? ventured profoundly delightfully all troubles pleasantries mischief thinking intently? profoundly delightfully all troubles pleasantries Villany mischief profoundly delightfully all Villany profoundly delightfully Fred Villany Fred Villany whirled strangely Fred whirled strangely Fred Fred whirled strangely Fred whirled strangely Cler Fred Cler Fred submachine Soto Cler submachine Soto Cler submachine Soto submachine Soto fragility sylph fragility sylph thee fragility sylph thee fragility sylph thee confin'd thee confin'd hearty confin'd hearty confin'd hearty Demands Ramilie hearty Demands Ramilie Demands Ramilie Demands Ramilie Phineas Phineas Phineas Phineas long long Abel Fletcher long all acqaintance mere civility donors Abel Fletcher orthodoxy long 'Muriel Halifax died all acqaintance mere civility donors Abel Fletcher orthodoxy Muriel Halifax died all acqaintance mere civility donors Abel Fletcher orthodoxy Muriel Halifax died all acqaintance mere civility donors week accounts orthodoxy deference Muriel Halifax died week accounts deference week accounts deference week accounts deference few few tenders few tenders few tenders tenders dangling skins John Halifax dangling skins John Halifax hearted dangling skins John Halifax hearted dangling skins John Halifax hearted hearted John John John midair knocked John midair knocked midair knocked morrow midair knocked morrow morrow morrow unquiet unquiet unquiet unquiet Offence Offence Offence Offence woeful subjects woeful subjects roared guys woeful subjects roared guys woeful subjects roared guys roared guys mare hoofs scrambled Mythe noticing mare hoofs scrambled Mythe noticing mare hoofs scrambled Mythe noticing mare hoofs scrambled Mythe noticing lin'd Sattin little lin'd Sattin little lin'd Sattin little lin'd Sattin little come Particulars come Particulars come Particulars started come Particulars doubled uncontrollable started Mercer Upholsterer doubled uncontrollable started Ladyship Mercer Upholsterer doubled uncontrollable started Ladyship Mercer Upholsterer doubled uncontrollable shuttle Ladyship Mercer Upholsterer shuttle Ladyship shuttle insupportable shuttle windows insupportable windows insupportable windows insupportable windows Pounds Pounds Pounds Pounds asking swords slashed Doc asking swords slashed Doc asking swords slashed Doc asking ll ter pertect uns'll swords slashed Doc ll ter pertect uns'll ll ter pertect uns'll ll ter pertect uns'll sharply see harm thee sharply see harm thee sharply see harm thee sharply see Ere examined John harm thee John drove Ere examined John intends John drove Ere examined John intends master tanner? John drove Ere examined John intends master tanner? John drove intends master tanner? such Mariana master tanner? such Mariana such Mariana myself such Mariana myself fosses myself talked fosses myself grimly given talked talking fosses grimly given talked talking fosses grimly given talked bean't going --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 01:16:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: TOLL BOOTH COLLECTOR #005 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit WALT HOWARD TOLL BOOTH COLLECTOR #005 [excerpt] www.thescare.com Environmental Management Review Group crypto-ignition key into my hands On Crew Certified Water Electrolysis System Service science range control center persistently denied Lost My Connection meters per second alike verandah no Single Lens Reflex passing program package udi-s-21273b Army Central Logistics Data Bank could see me Self Extracting Archive answers magistrate Engineering Change Analysis information Hardware Advanced Memory on Drawing Analysis Record terrain following radar management oversight risk tree say less. System Online Adobe Document Generation Data Group IBM Later Acquisition Logistics Division access method Communication storage system manager HPSS Perth decidedly Technology Entertainment Design Point Presence Pop from Stack Post Office Protocol Account Librarian IBM Enterprise Application Variable Thrust Engine when scaffolding gave Miss Versatile Interface Processor Business Information System questions Compatible Time Sharing System Cray Time Sharing System List ACL ACE contains Palm Query Application Ionospheric Plasma Electrodynamics Instrument us There routing information Industry standard deviation us Drawing Analysis Record Palmdale California on remained Ticket Granting Ticket Office NATO Atlantic Political-Military ASCII text file name extension Yes personal information manager System Management Information Base about pool managed system pressure monitoring valve Alphabet Literacy hull mechanical electrical United States Transuranium Registry Richland Washington United Nations Conference on Trade Development when Ticket Granting Ticket so when Unit Multiple Application took my My Eyes Glaze Over hull mechanical electrical Unit Multiple Application obliged Twisted Pair Port Transceiver have Maintenance Analysis Program such cases Information Processing Video systems program office delle COMunicazioni Unit Multiple Application me Health Education Welfare pension here Unit Multiple Application am Langley Research Center CDV CD-I Compact Disk Unit Multiple Application shall There noise Tree Tabular Combined Notation Observations Benefit outer firmware support manual-Environmental Health System/Subsystem vertical rate climb Later wanted few pressure monitoring valve Manager Gesellschaft für me come Crew Certified MAin Store Fermi Accelerator Laboratory my deductions Sub-Carrier Frequency Modulation Unit Multiple Application Certified NetWare Engineer Certified Novell Engineer gave Storage Module Disk Interconnect Chikuko Cha Amayi M'Malawi Women's NGO my Fuel Cell Power System Unit Multiple Application felt placed Tabular Data Control Ground Operations Support System occupied General Computer Operational System California Educational into Health Education Welfare returned Independent Telephone Company computerized biomechanical man-model Erstfield Emerging Technologies Advisory Group Business Information System Solar Backscatter Ultraviolet experiment have First Failure Support Daylight Time00 Expert Computer-Aided Testing least came South Vandenberg Air Force Base IBM Enterprise Application no longer Business Partner Network International Conference on Engineering Complex Computer Systems-Treasury Board years IBM Enterprise Application Extended Services Communications Manager IBM Extended Services Communications Manager IBM least Remote Line Module Precision Voltage Reference International Astrophysical Union before programming interface farther Power Systems Facility LeRC facility federal project management regulation shall see does they could Issues Screening Board Variable Array Storage Technology enough finding Device Frame Relay swagger befitting representatives so body-centered cubic negotiate specific QoS so shared switched IEEE 802-style local-area media out doors Committee on Natural Resources my friends see me talking Unit Multiple Application --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 06:48:55 -0500 Reply-To: Allen Bramhall Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Allen Bramhall Subject: light enough to be special MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hey check out my attention span, the fine grain of where I come from. and my participation, which is the sound of my thumb, on the book or door, your languor seeing my quotient. listen, I've got to reread my own mess. did I show details just now or was I yawning? there's no difference between the two but I've got to make a point. I know about Joe Strummer, and I know where I am. in my career, that is: I've got quality. I've got a voice and plan to remain votive. in the votive booth, that is. this is my ear. every year, I listen for the manifest. it is trumpet, or screw up, who cares now? I've got a target audience, and you know about squids. in our combined diction, something must fail. let that failure be your career, mine has too much moxie. I am telling you straight. I've been at it and arraigned. I've been attached to a square, basically. I will shower recently, then let all reports fall mute. that's going the long route but believe me, the noise will be peculiar. this is the attachment to the last message, there is something in my ear. still. it is my latest attention span, such as space inheres with. alas, provocative paint spatter in the inkling of morning, can you spell my name correctly? neither can I. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 09:13:51 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Schiz* Lit: an Anthology -- Call for Work In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i'll be heading up to newton today to spend xmas eve and day w/ my Schiz Lite family. wish me luck and the fortitude necessary to survive. see some of you (i hope) in nyc where i'll be braving the sea of tweed that's about to deluge your fair city... -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 11:33:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: "Elsewhere" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I've started my own blog, "Elsewhere," on poetics and culture(s). It's at: http://garysullivan.blogspot.com/ In the first blog: Turkish poet Orhan Veli. Comparisons of translations of Veli's work by Talat Sait Halman and Murat Nemet-Nejat. My own "translation" of one of Veli's poems. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_addphotos_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 11:36:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K. Silem Mohammad" Subject: one more jumps on the blogwagon In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Me too! Me too! http://limetree.blogspot.com/ Today's entry is on the notion of "ear" (i.e., "having" one). Don't expect this blog to be updated on anything like a regular basis. I'm very lazy. Kasey ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 15:07:54 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: YOUR BLOG In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Kasey great little essay At 11:36 AM 12/24/2002 -0800, you wrote: >Me too! Me too! > >http://limetree.blogspot.com/ > >Today's entry is on the notion of "ear" (i.e., "having" one). > >Don't expect this blog to be updated on anything like a regular basis. I'm >very lazy. > >Kasey ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 14:05:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Basement Reading Series In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Basement Reading Series January 7th=A07:30pm At 2390 Mission Street Suite #10, at 20th and Mission in the basement=20 of the Bikram Mission Yoga Building (entrance on 20th) Admission $2 Calling writers, readers, bookish ones, and all those of you who would=20= rather hear a great reading than watch TV--come check out an exciting=20 new monthly reading series. The Basement Reading series is located in a=20= funky yellow basement theater in the Mission district. We feature poets=20= and fiction writers working in all styles and strive to bring together=20= the distinctive voices of Bay Area writing.=A0The second installment=20 features kari edwards, poet, artist and gender activist; post-modern=20 playwright and writer Brent Cunningham; and poet and novelist Liz=20 Costello reading from The Obedient her novel-in-progress.=A0It=EDs sure = to=20 be a night of fiction and post-fiction to rub your pleasure sensors and=20= stimulate your intellect. Afterwards everyone is invited to a=20 post-reading discussion at a local pub. kari edwards is a poet, artist and gender activist, winner of New=20 Langton Art=EDs Bay Area Award in literature(2002), author of a day in=20= the life of p., subpress collective (2002), a diary of lies -=20 Belladonna #27 by Balladonna Books (2002), Electric Spandex: anthology=20= of writing the queer text, Pyriform Press (2002), obLiqUE paRt(itON):=20 colLABorationS, xPress(ed) (2002), and post/(pink) Scarlet Press=20 (2001). sie is also the poetry editor I.F.G.E=EDs Transgender - = Tapestry:=20 a International Publication on Transgender issues. Liz Costello moved to San Francisco from "the Old Country" (New York=20 and Massachussetts) in 1996. She has published poetry and prose in,=20 among other places, the San Francisco Metropolitan, Fourteen Hills,=20 Provincetown Magazine and the Cubby Missalette. She has played a=20 variety of roles on cable access television and performed with the=20 avant garde musical group That Hideous Strength. She will be reading an=20= excerpt from her novel-in-progress, The Obedient, which made finalist=20 for the Evans Harrington Prize of the William Faulkner Fiction=20 Competition. A short biography of Brent Cunningham: Milwaukee, WI (birth=20 certificate), Chicago, IL (tabula rasa), Port Washington, WI (gestural=20= fist-works in clay), Raleigh, NC (second language: cursive), San Ramon,=20= CA (tales of disinherited princes), San Diego, CA (a prom, a=20 melancholia), Redlands, CA (fake suicide poems), Madrid, Spain (green=20 travel notebook), Wilson, NC (allegory of the alien), San Luis Obispo,=20= CA (serial persona poems), Central America (blue travel notebook), San=20= Luis Obispo, CA (creation myths for atheists), Buffalo, NY (insect=20 drawings), Berkeley, CA (french object analysis), San Francisco, CA=20 (the painted theater). About the Basement Reading Series: The Basement Reading series is designed to give writers a chance to=20 read work that is in progress, and to build more community among Bay=20 Area writers. It is a place for writers to come and get inspired by=20 other writers and build more community and dialogue among the different=20= schools of writing in the Bay Area. =A0Contact info=A0Jenny Bitner=A0415-647-1015=A0jennybit@yahoo.com =A0 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 14:24:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K. Silem Mohammad" Subject: no, *your* poetry, Gary [MINSTREL IN THE GALLERY] In-Reply-To: <20021222160523.22804.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit MINSTREL IN THE GALLERY Welcome shy one. You are very talented ... your poetry will be published very soon at the house of dark phantom. Please write in poetic form the story of Sri Rama as narrated to you by Narada. After reading it your life and your poetry will never be the same again. God Bless you as you live and write for His glory! You are a blessing not only to our Church but to everyone your poetry will reach out and touch! Please DO NOT type in all caps! Your poetry will sing without them. Indulge a lady in her beauty and your poetry will die a thousand deaths. Buried in the flesh of this woman your poetry will escape. One truth could easily extinguish another. Pay service to the gods; for all your piety, death will tear you from the temple and hurry you into the grave. Think you your poetry will save you? Wait and see. I wait for you to be heavy with the implications of sleep and velvet scents. Here, your poetry will be preserved till Atlas sets down his burden at the end of time. I will look over your poem and if I like then "wala" your poetry will be found on my page. Your poetry will be written from the heart (mine) as best as I possibly can express it. Your poetry will be broken down to word usage, structure, mood, and idea. The top-level critique. I have a sort of sense of where your poetry will be in a year or three, makes me shiver. I think that your poetry will change in the same way as your painting. I feel strongly with you and I believe your poetry will live. Be careful of bad people but yes your poetry will get out there. As an artist, whatever you make will always be here. The world was created with words. Awesome motherfucking poetry. Go, seize the opportunity. The sun which is also in your future does show success and good things. Your poetry will introduce itself and your name to many strangers. When people read your poetry, your name will appear on the page, identifying the poetry. Your poetry will be considered better than all the poets that ever came before you. When everybody else is gone, your music, your art, your poetry will always be there. Your poetry will be archived in some of the most prestigious libraries in America, including more than half of the Ivy League. This is not all. Publishing your poetry will make you rich in ways you never imagined. You rhyme so very well, I can tell ... your poetry will sell!! The sky is the limit, your poetry will sell, if publishers frown on Social Justice Poetry, then damn them to HELL! You do not need these losers. Never confuse free verse with 'freedom from rules', however, or your poetry will not hold up well under scrutiny. You cannot write poetry without rhythm, and your poetry will never have rhythm if you do not study meter, foot, and line. Your poetry will never be that good. Critics who read your poetry will raise an eyebrow because it is very simplistic. Whatever you have set store by, your dress, your dinner, your poetry, will go wrong. If you hope that your poetry will change the world, give it up. How do you think your poetry will help others? If poetry is your way of not having a life, then your poetry will not give life. Do you think your poetry will remain in the annals of Russian literature? One thing's for sure--your poetry will never get you elected. Never. No joke. Q: I absolutely love your poetry! I love it. It has so many points!! Will you be having more published in the future? A: Thanks very much! I recall with pleasure 'the cobweb silk of nightfall' and 'my poetry is redundant.' I think I said something like that. Recent poems are in blue lettering. "Your poetry will definitely make a girl's head spin," Brenda crooned as she picked up a piece of passion fruit. Take heart, poets. The real test of your poetry will be in its endurance, its persistence beyond the moment when your words are hurled at the audience. What is your poetry saying about you? Are you proud of it? Come visit us here down under and your poetry will be more alive with "kissing" kangaroos. The very flow of your poetry will change direction. Your music and your poetry will never die ... happy 50th anniversary ... continue to be a "Minstrel in the Gallery." You have always been fidel to your ideas. You have good feeling in your words. The range and depth is evident for all to see. I really hope you can find happiness in your life then your poetry will reflect this too. Your poetry will grow with your age. Your poetry will help you your whole life through and you'll always be able to take a step bigger than you usually would. Your poetry will fill this cottage with warmth and light. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 15:20:23 PST Reply-To: bowering@sfu.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: bowering@SFU.CA Subject: Re: Joe Strummer Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary MIME-Version: 1.0 Did people here actually recognize the name Joe Strummer? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 18:26:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: Re: Joe Strummer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit absolutely ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 6:20 PM Subject: Re: Joe Strummer > Did people here actually recognize the name Joe Strummer? > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 16:19:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Joe Strummer In-Reply-To: <002501c2aba3$e24951b0$0100a8c0@vaio> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Let go the strings, whip up the reins, and let the deer launch - absolutely. on 12/24/02 3:26 PM, Duration Press at jerrold@DURATIONPRESS.COM wrote: > absolutely > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 6:20 PM > Subject: Re: Joe Strummer > > >> Did people here actually recognize the name Joe Strummer? >> >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 19:41:31 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: "Elsewhere" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gary, I think your translation of "suicide" is great, doing what I hoped my suggestion would do: making Orhan Veli a tabula rasa, a mysterious other around which to spin riffs. Not that different from what Armand was doing with his "tablets." Murat ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 20:12:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Joe Strummer Comments: To: bowering@SFU.CA In-Reply-To: <200212242320.gBONKNMj016919@rm-rstar.sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Of course - Alan On Tue, 24 Dec 2002 bowering@SFU.CA wrote: > Did people here actually recognize the name Joe Strummer? > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt older http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 20:23:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Golumbia Subject: Re: Joe Strummer In-Reply-To: from "Alan Sondheim" at Dec 24, 2002 08:12:23 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "washington bullets" -- dgolumbi@panix.com David Golumbia ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 20:49:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: psalm of future disappearance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII psalm of future disappearance jennifer, she said, nikuko beautiful women of the willow and fair behind the screen, shapes of dragons, cranes her hands fluttered in geometries, shapes humans behind the stones of the screen it is love and sex, it is death and hard bushido jennifer and nikuko were bare luna celesta, heard murmurs in the distance nikuko's hands made flame-cast shadows reeling in the moments of temporary beauty the grain of the metal of the blade of the sword the humans preparing the final act the stones of the screen murmuring like humans the turbulence and vortices of smooth smooth air there was hardly anyone there you could read the future if you knew the future flame and screen future bamboo and screen jade it is love and sex, it is death and hard bushido the turbulence and vortices of smooth smooth air of jennifer, she said, nikuko jennifer, she said, nikuko humans behind the stones of the screen a beautiful women of the willow and fair the stones of the screen murmuring like humans bc jennifer and nikuko were bare the turbulence and vortices of smooth smooth air there was hardly anyone there def reeling in the moments of temporary beauty the edges of the screen curled they're here in the world they're unfurled ghij behind the screen, shapes of dragons, cranes it is love and sex, it is death and hard bushido sutra of non-being the grain of the metal of the blade of the sword the humans preparing the final act klmno her hands fluttered in geometries, shapes it was a soft summer evening, kyoto, 1321 luna celesta, heard murmurs in the distance nikuko's hands made flame-cast shadows nikuko, she said, nikuko you could read the future if you knew the future pqrstu jennifer, she said, nikuko jennifer, she said, nikuko and i'm losing energy and i'm worn out and my mind's confused jennifer stood by the jade screen nikuko was behind her vwxyz === ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 17:53:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert M Corbett Subject: Re: Joe Strummer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII yessirree. On Tue, 24 Dec 2002, Stephen Vincent wrote: > Let go the strings, whip up the reins, and let the deer launch - > absolutely. > > on 12/24/02 3:26 PM, Duration Press at jerrold@DURATIONPRESS.COM wrote: > > > absolutely > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 6:20 PM > > Subject: Re: Joe Strummer > > > > > >> Did people here actually recognize the name Joe Strummer? > >> > >> > >> > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 00:23:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Broder Subject: Re: Joe Strummer In-Reply-To: <200212242320.gBONKNMj016919@rm-rstar.sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are you kidding? The only time I ever stayed out all night on line in front of a box office was to get tickets to see The Clash at Bonds in 1980...something. I actually don't remember the year for sure, but it was the Sandinista tour. So, yeah, we poets and poeticists certainly know who Joe Strummer was. Michael -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of bowering@sfu.ca Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 6:20 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Joe Strummer Did people here actually recognize the name Joe Strummer? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 21:53:14 PST Reply-To: bowering@sfu.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: bowering@SFU.CA Subject: Re: Joe Strummer Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary MIME-Version: 1.0 On Wed, 25 Dec 2002 00:23:19 -0500 POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU wrote: > Are you kidding? The only time I ever stayed out all night on line in > front of a box office was to get tickets to see The Clash at Bonds in > 1980...something. I actually don't remember the year for sure, but it > was the Sandinista tour. > > So, yeah, we poets and poeticists certainly know who Joe Strummer was. > Oh yeah? I couldnt keep straight who were the Clash, the Cars or the Police. I could always tell when it was Charles Tyler, though. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 21:57:14 PST Reply-To: bowering@sfu.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: bowering@SFU.CA Subject: Re: Joe Strummer Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary MIME-Version: 1.0 On Tue, 24 Dec 2002 20:23:21 -0500 POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU wrote: > "washington bullets" > > > -- > dgolumbi@panix.com > David Golumbia Before that they were the Baltimore Bullets. Now they are the washington Wizards. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 22:46:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Felsinger Subject: Re: Joe Strummer In-Reply-To: <200212250557.gBP5vEMj020272@rm-rstar.sfu.ca> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Funny... the zombies of death draw another breath > From: bowering@SFU.CA > Reply-To: bowering@sfu.ca > Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 21:57:14 PST > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Joe Strummer > > On Tue, 24 Dec 2002 20:23:21 -0500 POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU wrote: >> "washington bullets" >> >> >> -- >> dgolumbi@panix.com >> David Golumbia > > > Before that they were the Baltimore Bullets. Now they are the washington > Wizards. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 02:17:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: The Clash Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed yeah,yeah,yeah...and i even used to wear a bullet necklace, black beret, and british flag bandanna... _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_eliminateviruses_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 00:21:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: Joe Strummer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed George B, which Clash album do you need me to copy for you? Billy Bragg (another leftist British singer/songwriter I admire) wrote a fairly articulate eulogy which appeared yesterday on Yahoo. Did any of you see it? He hit the nail on the head: without Strummer, the Clash wouldn't have been political, & without the Clash in that role punk wouldn't have been political. (It still sorta wasn't, I sez, but it's hard to overestimate Strummer's role in moving the music toward a sense of social awareness without a lot of Bob Geldoff pat-yourself-on-the-back We Are The World liberal crap). There was sometimes an honesty about class, & about the stakes of small issues like war, in their songs-- which was refreshing then, as now. Very, very sad to hear the news. & I still wish I'd gone to see the Clash at the Royal Oak (Michigan) Roller Rink, when I was about 18 years old. Mark <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'A sentence thinks loudly.' -—Gertrude Stein http://www.pavementsaw.org/cosmopolitan.htm http://www.nyspp.com/lisa/soc.htm >From: bowering@SFU.CA >Reply-To: bowering@sfu.ca >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Joe Strummer >Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 15:20:23 PST > >Did people here actually recognize the name Joe Strummer? _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_virusprotection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 20:34:23 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Joe Strummer Never Heard of John Summer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When I saw Joe Strummer I thought it was a joke...actually I've never heard of him so here I am throw things at the man with his head in the hole: if he is or was a jazz musician or pop musician I'm absolutely uninterested...and I have never been interested in such even as a teenager. But I'm a very dull person and live a very dull life: today I just played over some chess games, listened to Bach - the only musician to listen to ..nothing sles ies needed... and muttered to myself....and the cat: which deigned not ot reply, even when I asked it, rater hopefully if it knew who Joe Summer was. But if its some sort of in joke I've missed the joke.....jez its hot here today! So, there you are. Merry Xmas all same. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Broder" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2002 6:23 PM Subject: Re: Joe Strummer > Are you kidding? The only time I ever stayed out all night on line in > front of a box office was to get tickets to see The Clash at Bonds in > 1980...something. I actually don't remember the year for sure, but it > was the Sandinista tour. > > So, yeah, we poets and poeticists certainly know who Joe Strummer was. > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of bowering@sfu.ca > Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 6:20 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Joe Strummer > > Did people here actually recognize the name Joe Strummer? > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 23:58:38 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Felsinger Subject: Re: Joe Strummer In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > From: Mark DuCharme > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 00:21:42 -0700 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Joe Strummer > > & I still wish I'd gone to see the Clash at the Royal Oak (Michigan) Roller > Rink, when I was about 18 years old. I had tickets when I was learning to drive, back in '83, but couldn't figure out how to find the Cow Palace in San Francisco. Should've thought of something. Regretted it ever since. I think that there is an argument to what B. Bragg says about The Clash's insertion of politics in punk. Though I think the X-Ray Specs had some great songs of social alienation that were thoughtful enough to see that evolution as, perhaps, inevitable. The punk scene in San Francisco was very politically active, to a point that it alienated and divided the scene. The climax, as I saw it, was the demonstration outside of the Democratic Convention in 1984 with a gig just outside on Mission Street with a line-up that included The Dicks, MDC, and the Dead Kennedy's. Later everyone walked down to the Convention Center and got their heads shit canned in by cops on horse back. The interesting thing was how the whole thing received not one word in the mainstream press, but did merit a nice full layout, with pictures, in The Daily Worker. What fine days. The Clash had much influence on the people I knew then, and continue to know. We were very young and excited by what they where capable of. Joe Strummer's passing is sobering. I think of Kathy Acker when I think of writing and punk. That kind of wrong vitality that can, with a brush stroke, change and charge the ground under our feet. So enjoy the sun there Richard, and crank up the Bach. In the words of The Clash: Go Easy, Step Tight, and Stay Free. Andrew ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 04:09:34 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: THE. ... CLASH ....here in NY..i've got a nice post holiday hacking cough...back from an awful View From the Bridge at the MET...Arthur Miller is mediocre in any number of mediums.. ....i once waited on line some 3-4 hrs for Clash Tickets for my younger bro-in-law...who was hard into drumming sex and drugs...Joey Ramone lived a couple of floors above me in this forshlugana awful condo bldng..so i too am punk.. .....Eddie my bro-in-law..merry x-mas..is a computer programmer with a nice 13 yr old daugher...the CLASH drummer is a very dead 50 yrs...dum de drum da dum..drn... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 00:57:27 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Joe Summer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Listers. It is prohibited to talk about Joe Summer anymore: it sounds = to me as if he was not a cultured man. We are poets and should not = discuss such matters of Low Culture as defined.=20 Jus listen to Bach as I do. Nothing else is required. Richard. =20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 07:26:33 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: D.O.A ' Roger Richards died a few day ago...Roger with Brian Bailey ran a small bookstore in the Village in the 70's.....Greenwich Ave. Books...which specialized in Beat Lit & the Warhol Scene.. When Brian packed up and moved to Fl...Roger and his Wife..openened up a specialty store next door...THE RARE BOOKROOM...which lasted til 1983...somewhere before or after this...Roger had the concession for the Rare Book Dept of the Brentano's Store on 5th Ave....where old line money met new line snobbery... The RARE book room was a hang out for many boho types from Hunke to Corso to Ginzie. ...Roger was known for SIGNED lit & his many contacts in the various scenes provided it...it was rumoured that when the contacts couldn't... Gregory could...in any case a moot point by now since the forgeries are as $$$ as the so called real thing.. Roger was a bridge figure in the culture adventures.. ...not quite a writer..tho he is sd to have written stories..but a spreader of the beat gospel...some rebel agin the previous generation...some provide...Corso Roger and his Wife ended living in a twilight menage...the less of which i know about the better...Roger became Corso's literary executor..another way of passing... Roger i'm told o.d...some bad shit..he was 70...one of the last casualties of the beat wars...after victory had been achieved..he was a good enuf guy..drn... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 13:45:21 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Fwd: 2002/2003 . Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- Original Message --- Date: 12/25/2002 From: "julien blaine" & in french (scuse me !) : julien blaine titre Pro chain ? N=E8PE La reliure sera toil=E9e le papier de fin grammage d=B9un blanc un peu cass=E9 les cahiers seront cousus il sera compos=E9 en Times New Roman corps 7 ce sera aussi un verssic=F4ne. Il sera foliot=E9 en chiffres arabes Ce livre (la page 6) le 16 - XII / 2002 jusqu=B9=E0 l=B9=E9touffement cette haine, ma haine, vis =E0 vis des barbares et des assassins : Poutine qui veut supprimer toute trace de culture Tch=E9chenne sur notre plan=E8te, Busch qui n=B9a qu=B9une id=E9e : r=E9cup=E9rer encore plus de p=E9trole = et faire malgr=E9 tout sa guerre au moyen Orient, et Sharon qui veut malgr=E9 tous et malgr=E9 tous les accords sign=E9s co= ntinuer ses crimes et sa colonisation des terres palestiniennes... Quand on voit comment s=B9organise l=B9ordre mondial, cet ordre, leur ord= re, il faut bien admettre qu=B9il y a l=E0 comme un complot guerrier internation= al contre les arabes, les pays de cette culture alli=E9s =E0 la Russie o=F9 = aux =C9tats-Unis-d=B9Am=E9rique devraient s=B9y r=E9soudre et agir en cons=E9= quences s=B9il ne veulent pas finir comme les nations am=E9rindiennes de l=B9Am=E9rique du = Nord. Dois-je pr=E9ciser que je suis un occidental de France et que je suis parfaitement ath=E9e, ma spiritualit=E9 s=B9exer=E7ant plut=F4t =E0 l=B9= =E9gard de la nature v=E9g=E9tale ou animale et la plupart du temps selon des rites dits premi= ers du plus haut cosmiques. Je n=B9ai donc aucune confiance dans les religions et encore moins dans l= es religions monoth=E9istes qui ont permis l=B9inquisition catholique, les massacres de la Saint-Barth=E9l=E9my, ceux de Sabra et Chatila et hui les tueries de familles alg=E9riennes, les assassinats d=B9enfants palestinie= ns, les suicides collectifs dans des religions monoth=E9istes plus restreintes bi= en que d=B9origine chr=E9tienne, juive ou musulmane... J=B9arr=EAte l=E0 l=B9=E9num=E9ration. Cette pr=E9cision apport=E9e comment expliquer que tous les ennemis de l= =B9ordre mondial soient tous de religion musulmane ? O=F9 est le terrorisme , ou plus exactement qui est le plus terroriste ? Al Quaida ou la C.I.A. ? El fatha ou le Sahal ? L=B9histoire, la raison , la v=E9rit=E9 doivent-elles toujours =EAtre cel= les des vainqueurs , La loi du plus fort est elle la loi humaine ? Alors je me dis : par rapport =E0 et selon cette seule question puis-je encore =E9crire ? Faire de la po=E9sie ? Essayer de changer le monde pour un futur alors que le hui est cette d=E9plorable catastrophe ? J=B9ai commenc=E9 ce livre il y a plus de trois mois et je n=B9en suis qu= =B9=E0 la page 7 malgr=E9 toutes les pages blanches : 1,2,4. Y aura-t-il une page 8 ? Vais-je enfin sortir des notices explicatives pour m=B9envoyer dans le verssic=F4ne ? Ne r=EAvons pas trop. =D4 non ! Ma douleur, ma haine : ne r=EAvez pas ! Cette page n=B9est pas la page 8, elle est seulement la prolongation de la page 7; une proth=E8se une 7bis en quelque sorte. Je voulais simplement marquer le coup. Et dire notre d=E9sesp=E9rance en ces dernier jours de l=B9an 2002 : Joyeuse et Heureuse Ann=E9e ! Happy New Year ! jamais 2 sans 3 jamais 2 cent 3 jamais 2 00 3 Jamais 2003 Ce bonheur l=E0 en vieux caract=E8res et en formule de langue am=E9ricain= e c=B9est parti pour combien de temps quelques ann=E9es ? un si=E8cle ? ce neuf mil= l=E9naire ? Happy New Year=20 tandis que je tue. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 08:49:18 -0500 Reply-To: men2@columbia.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss Subject: Re: Schiz* Lit Comments: To: "SCHIZOPH: Schizophrenia Discussion Group" , Thomas Mack , Webartery List In-Reply-To: <20021225045418.17594.qmail@web20607.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am not necessarily looking for poersonal experiences, even when I ask for work by consumers. You can write fiction or poetry. The idea though, is that someone who has experienced psychosis would have a particular style of fiction or poetry if they were able to be in touch with, but in control, of the psychotic side of things. On the other hand, there is a trend in literature towards SchizLit, it just hasn't been isolated into an anthology. Some writers may take exception to my terminology, but the list of charactertistics I gave for Schiz lit are definitely in contemporary poetry, exspecially, but not only, in experimental forms. That is why I hope to get contributions from mainstream (not mentally ill) experimental writers. What I find curious is the convergence betwen these techniques and the definitions of thought disorders. This is not to pathologize the potry but to suggest that poetry, havig to do as it does with "making strange," makes strange thought processes in its narrative structure. That these correspond to pattrerns people have who have mental problems is not all that surprising. Some people say that we are all a bit psychotic in our dreams, and there are those who say experimental poetry is dream logic rather than awake logic. Personally I take it back further, to Rimbaud who wanted the "dereglement de tous les sens" [decalibration of all the senses] and literally drove himself crazy in order to write the Illuminations and other prose poetry. He deprived himself of sleep, took drugs, got drunk, etc -- all things that would lead to the development of schizzy thought patterns. Later authors have not found it becesary to engage in these wild pursuits, but have been able to imagine: what if I were paranoid? What if my thoughts derailed in all directions rather than going logically? What if I believed that everything affected everything else but that I was at its center? This is what an author such as Jame Tate has done, and several of his books have one the Pulitzer Prize, proving to me that Schiz Lit is "in" As and example, here is a poem from "Distance from Loved Ones" called "Bewitched" I was standing in the lobby, some irritant in my eye, thinking back on a soloist I once heard in Venenzuela, and then for some reason on a crate if oranges recently arrived from a frined in Florida, and then this colleague came up to me but I was certain I was standing there naked and I was certain she could read my thoughts, so I tried to hide them quickly, I was embarassed that there was no apparent connection t them, will-o'-the-wisps, and i needed an alibi so I told her I had seen a snapshop of a murder victim recently thet greatly resembled her, and that she shoulld take precaution, my intonation getting me into deeper trouble, and I circled the little space I had cut out, as if looking for all the sedereal years she had inquired into moments before, and the dazzling lunar poverty of some thoughts had me pinned like a moth and my dubious tactic to hide my malady had promped thuis surreptitious link to the whilrling Sufi dancers, once so popular in these halls. "It's five minutes pasty four," I said, knowing I had perjured myself for all time. I veered into the men's room, astonished to have prevailed, my necktie, a malediction, stapled in place, my zipper synchronized with the feminie motive. In Zagreb just now, a hunter is poaching som cherries. Note that it doesn't do all of the Sciz Lit techniques, only a few of them. But that they truly inform the poem. -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Mack [mailto:tominprov@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 11:54 PM To: men2@columbia.edu Subject: Schiz* Lit --- Millie I actually don't remember (I'm sure repressed) a lot of my psychotic experiences. This is too bad, because I am sure that they would make for interesting reading. Can you give the name of some of this Lit that has been published though? On the other hand, the more I think of it, the more I think I may have something to contribute...I'll let you know. Thanks, Tominprov __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 20:33:58 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Platt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CATALOGONY 23. ELECTRIC MOLE REPELLER challenged adjustable, compact, safe, and guar- Available in Royal Blue or Black; waist [(amazing profits made)] ing blasts. Made in USA. Hand washable. One size fits all. underarm Steel, with black silhouettes enhance your home and property. For indoors or out, THE BASIC FORMS is reversible for for all painful and possibly costly slips and falls. Its used straight, bent, even nailed to post or tree Plastic. Ages 5 and up.[immediate solutions] Specify Men's or Ladies' innate FISH ACRYLIC sense food and beverages, plus medication and encourage you to explore and stretch your creative non-skid bottom. 17 2/3" W x 22" L. full-bodied great view of the masterpiece from the inside 24. FLORAL FURNITURE THROWS doors, suction cups provide added security against Tapestry with tan background, standard sizes. Front more harsh. Abrasive chemicals...just shield, it offers investigation essential, always keep a set in your [Get Paid] tuck inside. Made in USA. Available in Black, Navy, cushion features a removable cover. Mounted on a large ing wheels 14 1/2" -15 1/2" in diameter. Comes in Black, PSYCHOLOGICAL OBSTACLES an infected turn it on --- in less than a minute, full [long distance to] under-seat storage. sturdy steel tube Features zippered contrast fiction, COLORED ACCENTS poetry space with flimsy file cards, this integrated and padded to protect instrument; delicious, but they are borne on your hands Peace, List. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 11:30:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: Joe Summer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Jus listen to Bach as I do. Nothing else is required. I thought it was spelled Beck Best, Geoffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard.tylr" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2002 6:57 AM Subject: Joe Summer > Listers. It is prohibited to talk about Joe Summer anymore: it sounds to me as if he was not a cultured man. We are poets and should not discuss such matters of Low Culture as defined. > > Jus listen to Bach as I do. Nothing else is required. > > Richard. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 11:40:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: An American Christmas at home Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" , ImitaPo Memebers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An American Christmas at home Consists of cranberries strung along popcorn strings under evergreen trees cutoff at the legs standing aloof overtop of too-expensive gifts wrapped in velvet ribbon bringing sourbright redpuckering lips and sweet kernels stuck in the tooth What joy can resist an unopened present outside of a box, anything can be inside pearls or diamond dolls tirelessly imagined toys the gadget of tomorrow shopping mall specials I love you enough to buy the whole galleria And I would if you would want me to, but I know How diffidence abounds, overcomes your life its highest beauty and joy comes from experience experience me, my love, come close for me to hold you in crisis, in elation my being is yours along with poems, recipes, cats This love is a compilation of Christmas with you at home Happy Holidays to everyone, Geoffrey ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 19:05:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: The Clash Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed as far as punk & politics & The Clash, it should be noted that they WERE on a major label and had gotten a lot a lot of shit for the selling out of punk, of the image of rebellion, etc. As there were political punk bands at the time--namely Crass, later the Dead Kennedys--able to produce their own records...thus not entering into the web of commerce which brought a profit for the same folks they were critiquing... just a thought..noah _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 20:33:28 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: FW: Lester's Flogspot! I Want You To Flog Me Until I'm Blue! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This just in...an announcement for yet another blog. I don't think this is quite the typical blog, however, as it appears to be interested in blurring the lines of self and identity. It seems to focus on poetry itself, but not so much poets. Part travelogue (Lester is in Cambodia for the Holidays), part poetry, part commentary, part dungeon, part group sex. Lester is a ventriloquist doll. As puppets are known to do, he'll apparently say whatever you put in his mouth. He says you just have to pull his string. He's quite screwed up in his empty head but he's entertaining; he brings a little vaudeville to the poetry world (but vaudeville updated for the internet age). -----Original Message----- From: Lester Oracle [mailto:lester@proximate.org] Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2002 1:57 AM ~~~~~8} ~~~~~8} ~~~~~8} ()==8 8==() ()==8 8==() {8~~~~~ {8~~~~~ {8~~~~~ ***LESTER'S FLOGSPOT*** ~~~~~8} ~~~~~8} ~~~~~8} ()==8 8==() ()==8 8==() {8~~~~~ {8~~~~~ {8~~~~~ To Blog Xor Not To Blog Because You Don't Get Both http://lesters.blogspot.com/ (Baby, I'm a star!) Flog me tender, blog me true, Yank my string 'til I'm through, That's why I love you, Lester PS! If you want to become assimilated into the world of Lester, and be a part of His Daily Flog and become a we, please e-mail me with a proposal for our merger and mutual acquisition posthaste! Donations accepted, but sexual intercourse not included. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 20:38:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: i don't want to be the bearer of bad news along the Moselle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII i don't want to be the bearer of bad news along the Moselle, nor nullo spinae, nothing of the bones of men, Ausonius, i've had enough barbarians pressed hard against the gate - Lesbia stood by the bronze auracular you could read her future if you knew the future her hands fluttered in sacred cords Luna Celesta, heard murmurs in the distance it is love and sex, it is death and hard marl the grain of the metal of the blade of the sword behind the auracular, shapes of dragons, pearls they're here in the world they're unfurled the edges of the auracular curled turbulence, the violence of the pair there was hardly anyone there Lesbia and Veneres Cupidinesque were bare the stones of the auracular murmuring and austere humans behind the stones of the auracular i don't want to be the bearer of bad news beyond Moselle Veneres Cupidinesque was behind her Veneres Cupidinesque's hands made flame-cast shadows you could read her future if you knew the future her hands fluttered in sacred cords Luna Celesta, heard murmurs in the distance it was a soft summer evening, roma, 324 it is love and sex, it is death and hard marl the grain of the metal of the blade of the sword the humans preparing the final act behind the auracular, shapes of dragons, pearls they're here in the world they're unfurled the edges of the auracular curled turbulence, the violence of the pair there was hardly anyone there the stones of the auracular murmuring and austere humans behind the stones of the auracular nor nothing of men's bones, Ausonius Veneres Cupidinesque's hands made flame-cast shadows you could read her future if you knew the future her hands fluttered in sacred cords Luna Celesta, heard murmurs in the distance it was a soft summer evening, roma, 324 it is love and sex, it is death and hard marl the grain of the metal of the blade of the sword they're here in the world they're unfurled the edges of the auracular curled there was hardly anyone there Lesbia and Veneres Cupidinesque were bare the stones of the auracular murmuring and austere humans behind the stones of the auracular i've had enough, the hordes against the gate Lesbia, she said, Veneres Cupidinesque === ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 00:30:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joshua Berlow Subject: joe strummer the clash and punk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I always thought that the clash weren't real punk like the sex pistols or patti smith, or some other bands that folks have mentioned. that they were opportunists who glommed onto the scene. But here it is now 25 years later and they're held up as official punksters. The idea about punk that I really liked was that anyone can do it, the DIY attitude, and the clash were just too good to be real DIY. Other people thought at the time that punk was just a cynical ploy to sell records. Favorite line from some forgotten punk song: "All I ever wanted out of life was a Pepsi". -- http://www.joshuaberlow.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 00:44:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: Re: joe strummer the clash and punk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Berlow" To: Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 12:30 AM Subject: joe strummer the clash and punk > Favorite line from some forgotten punk song: "All I ever wanted out of > life was a Pepsi". thought it was simply "all i wanted was a pepsi"...suicidal tendencies "institutionalized"... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 02:55:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: joe strummer the clash and punk In-Reply-To: <3E0A4D95.2261.17B3209@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII huh? what? sex pistols not opportunists (fab 4 plus snot)? suicidal tendencies are real punks but not the clash? like any fertile art movement punk moved in several directions (and locales) at once. punk is elvis costello singing "radio, radio" on saturday night live as much as it's the sex pistols not showing up for the gig. so i wouldn't dismiss the clash for not being the ramones. i suspect (not to pick on you, josh) that the paint-by-numbers simplification of the genre by later derivative bands like green day and rancid is what might make the clash seem "too good" now. as a memorable commercial of a few years ago had it (our speaker looking as though he was born about 1980), "Remember in the seventies, when rock got all boring and corporate, and then punk came along and shook things up? Well, that's kind of like the new VW Passat ..." damian On Thu, 26 Dec 2002 00:30:13 -0500 Joshua Berlow wrote: > I always thought that the clash weren't real punk like the sex pistols or > patti smith, or some other bands that folks have mentioned. that they > were opportunists who glommed onto the scene. But here it is now 25 > years later and they're held up as official punksters. > > The idea about punk that I really liked was that anyone can do it, the > DIY attitude, and the clash were just too good to be real DIY. Other > people thought at the time that punk was just a cynical ploy to sell > records. > > Favorite line from some forgotten punk song: "All I ever wanted out of > life was a Pepsi". > > > > -- > > http://www.joshuaberlow.com <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 05:01:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: Not Sleeping in Moon Riddle Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm the man who cries because the moon won't turn corners with me. In this prolific universe, certainties can resusitate a telescope from almost certain boredom on a screened-in porch; in restaurant chatter, my love orders the potato-skins, I a sliver of my own shadow uncoupled from the tracks. I know it's me because the kids still throw rocks, even when I turn the corner. Their laughter follows me much the same way you do: all purple and overfed, scrolling out from under my feet. Why do you waste so much time moving so far away, when even when I turn the corner I'm the same man? ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 05:02:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: starved·trees·sucking·on·a·new·phase·of·morning·moon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 1 separations·throw·back·shivering·pictures·of·traffic·embedded·in·air a·wind·with·the·softest·teeth·throws·back·shivering·pictures·of·starved·trees separations·sucking·on·a·new·phase·of·morning·moon 2 a·new·phase·of·morning·moon·copies·each·intricacy·of·gesture·performed·by·separations the·hands·trickle·down·the·hands the·hands·throw··back·shivering·pictures·of·my·webbed·face separations·copy·each·intricacy·of·gesture·performed·by·traffic· a·new·phase·of·morning·moon·copies·each·intricacy·of·gesture·performed·by·water· colored·paper·trickles·down·water· 3 traffic·embedded·in·air·sucking·on·my·webbed·face colored·paper·browns·in·seasons·of·starved·trees the·hands·wind·with·pastel·light·starved·trees starved·trees·trickle·down·starved·trees colored·paper·copies·each·intricacy·of·gesture·performed·by·separations a·new·phase·of·morning·moon·breathes·heavenly·over·separations the·hands·love·the·pantomine·of·water·trapping·refractions·of·hung·trees starved·trees·sucking·on·a·new·phase·of·morning·moon 4 starved·trees·frustrate·the·sense·of·winter·in·starved·trees the·hands·frustrate·the·sense·of·winter·in·traffic·embedded·in·air separations·throw·back·shivering·pictures·of·separations separations·sucking·on·separations my·webbed·face·trickles·down·a·wind·with·the·softest·teeth the·hands·breathe·heavenly·over·separations colored·paper·copies·each·intricacy·of·gesture·performed·by·water· ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 08:35:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Broder Subject: Re: joe strummer the clash and punk In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm not sure where this fits into the discussion...but have you noticed that "London Calling" is now being used to sell Jaguars? Michael ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 06:09:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Re: joe strummer the clash and punk In-Reply-To: <000201c2ace3$9a86e2c0$6401a8c0@Michael> Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit everything is being used to sell everything. I first noticed the beatle's hey jude as musck in 1982, Ginesburg sold the rights to Howel, and didn't for get the rolling stone, I think Dylan sold the rights to jumpin jack flash 15 year ago.. whats not up for grabs, maybe some poetry...homelessness...no there is a whole business around them for poetical oppression and support, i was going to say L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E ..BUT THERE SEEMS TO BE A COTTAGE INDUSTRY AROUND THAT.. it only counts in the moment it happens as radical...may and not... lets face it even the sex pistols became and still are a huge commodity.. its all up for sale. > kari edwards _________________ -GENDER RIGHTS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS- ______________________ Check out: http://www.xpressed.org/ http://www.litvert.com/issueseven.html http://www.muse-apprentice-guild.com/august2002/kariedwards/ literary_magazine.html http://homepages.which.net/~panic.brixtonpoetry/semicolon1.htm http://www.sfsu.edu/~poetry/narrativity/issuethree_toc.html http://www.shampoopoetry.com/ShampooThirteen/ShampooIssueThirteen.html http://canwehaveourballback.com/12index.htm http://www.webdelsol.com/InPosse/edwards10.htm http://www.puppyflowers.com/II/flowers.html http://poetz.com/fir/may02.htm http://poetz.com/fir/feb02.htm http://www.shampoopoetry.com/ShampooFourteen/ShampooIssueFourteen.html On Thursday, December 26, 2002, at 05:35 AM, Michael Broder wrote: > I'm not sure where this fits into the discussion...but have you noticed > that "London Calling" is now being used to sell Jaguars? > > Michael > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 09:56:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: if you are @ MLA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hope to see you at session 395, "Everyday Life and the Event" 8:30-9:45 AM, Sunday, December 29 Conference F, Sheraton Hotel "George Perec's Anonymous 'Endotic,' or, The Scandal of Everyday Life."=20 Anna Botta, Smith College "Henri Lefebvre's Spatial Corrections: The Event or the Limits of Luk=E1csea= n=20 Philosophy." Sara Nadal-Melsio, New York University "The Taiwanese New Wave and the 'Event' of Modernization." Angelo Restivo,= =20 East Carolina University Organized by Barrett Watten and Sianne Ngai ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 09:02:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: 1.002.13 In-Reply-To: <5.0.1.4.2.20021226094939.00ae4658@mail.wayne.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable from: a diary of lies* 1.002.13 we were returning from the celebration of the cast iron icons, = me and=20 bobbi who used to be bunny, who changed names as a way to explore the=20 parameters of =93b=92s=94 - and I was taking my dog, whom I called=20 pomagranite, who was a pomeranian for a stroll - who since that first=20 day of its being, was wrapped in swaddling clothing, whom everyone=20 loved so much they wanted it to be that way forever - that quiet -=20 little - way - that little way children are when they are wrapped in=20 swaddling clothing - before they decide to play mutant ninja turtles in=20= the ceiling with small nuclear weapons. like when you came home and the=20= swaddled bundle you called, let=92s say - bobbi, which was used to fix a=20= certain ease for future bathroom usage - but one day you come home and=20= bobbi announces that bobbi no longer wants to be called bobbi, but=20 bunny - and now, you have to buy brand new brand name things for bunny,=20= which made the whole family quite sad, since the family always wanted=20 to cast a pair of bronze shoes of bobbi=92s, that could have been made=20= into a pair of candle stick holders or a pair of doorstops - but the=20 thing is, it was too late for the pair of cast bronze shoes of bobbi,=20 since bobbi became bunny and bunny didn=92t like to wear the things that=20= were bobbi=92s because it made bunny feel too tall - that=92s what = happened=20 to pomagranite - one day we decided that our pomeranian needed a name -=20= you know, something to reflect the image of a small dust ball with=20 eyes, but before we named our pomeranian, already knowing what names do=20= - we thought we would make a plaster cast of our pomeranian and make=20 duplicates in cement and put them on our lawn - this seemed like the=20 obvious thing to do since we loved our pomeranian so much - and when=20 our pomeranian saw all those duplicates on the lawn - fifty on each=20 side of our side walk which led to our house, all in symmetrical=20 military order saluting the flag, our poor pomeranian just froze, froze=20= right there and never moved again - so what could we do, but put wheels=20= on our pomeranian=92s feet and call it =91pomagranite=92 - so anyways, I = was=20 walking with bobbi and my pomeranian =91pomagranite,=92 and we were all=20= laughing about deuteronomy - and all of the sudden bobbi started=20 laughing so hard at deuteronomy - which is as you know, is where lenny=20= bruce got such a good sense of humor - and as we were laughing at the=20 one about why did the bleeding one not cross the street, bobbi started=20= laughing so hard, that all of the sudden bobbi looked at me as though a=20= shark had just bit a piece of bobbi=92s leg off - and then bobbi looked=20= at me and said - I was laughing so hard I pissed my pants - and feeling=20= a little titillated, I wanted to say - this is where the body becomes a=20= public place - and bobbi would have responded - the human body is=20 unsettling in its multiple forms of the grotesque and the ultimate=20 possibilities of desirability - and I would have said - the body is=20 proof of doing - and bobbi would have said - I=92ve always thought about=20= what it would be like to allow people to shit and piss and spit in my=20 mouth - and I would have responded - the lily pisses in the vase=20 doesn't it? but instead we just took turns and rolled =91pomagranite=92=20= home - later that night we knew that what we had done had nothing to do=20= with aphrodite and the sea and cronus=92 penis, but on the other hand,=20= maybe it did, it depends on how you look at it, you know what I mean? *available though Belladonna Books, #27 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 12:08:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Re: joe strummer the clash and punk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm finding it hard to imagine that anyone could say that the Clash "weren't real punks like the Sex Pistols..." They were at ground zero of the Britpunk xplosion. They played together many times in 1976/77. They were THERE- that's all there is to it. Did they "sell out" to a major label? This could be a neverending debate choc-fulla back & forths, but let's consider this: The Clash (hardly top-tier in CBS sales)fought tooth & nail to have Columbia release a sprawling, experimental 3-record project called Sandinista. This, in the glory days of Reagan/Thatcher red-baiting. Their considerable distribution brought class consciousness to alot of (pre-internet)kids who never would've found their way to a CRASS album. The Clash brought reggae, soul, funk & rap to kids all over that otherwise might not have given it a chance. Not as "great white fathers", but more like directional pointers- encouraging us to move thru new genres & not let our haircuts define what music we listen to. On their final tour, their opening act was 14 Karat Soul-an a capella group of five black kids from Jersey. It freaked out alot of mohawks- sore because they didn't get what they expected from a "punk" show. That, my friend, IS punk rock. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 11:35:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: joe strummer the clash and punk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The Sex Pistols, whatever they became, were CREATED by their manager, Malcomb McLaren, exactly as "a cynical ploy to sell records." The Clash formed shortly afterward-- their first show was with the Sex Pistols, I think in 1976. They were all muscians on the London scene-- Joe Strummer had his own band, which he abandoned when he was asked by Jones & Simonon to be the singer for the band that they were forming. Johnny Rotton, on the other hand, wasn't on the London music scene I don't think, but was "discovered" by McLaren because he embodied the image of punk that McLaren was trying to sell. If you listen to the two bands, it's clear that the Clash weren't imitating anybody, least of all the Pistols. The Pistols became known as "punk" in the USA before anybody here had heard of the Clash, mainly because workers at a factory supposedly refused to press one of the band's early singles (I think it was "God Save the Queen") because they thought it offensive-- and that story made the U.S. papers, no doubt released by McLaren. Of course the single was produced, & the Pistols went on to a U.S. tour. It would be a few years, meanwhile, before the Clash's record company allowed their records to be released in the U.S. But the whims of record companies and the machinations of the Sex Pistols' manager have nothing to do with the Clash's authenticity. Mark <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'A sentence thinks loudly.' -—Gertrude Stein http://www.pavementsaw.org/cosmopolitan.htm http://www.nyspp.com/lisa/soc.htm >From: Joshua Berlow >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: joe strummer the clash and punk >Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 00:30:13 -0500 > >I always thought that the clash weren't real punk like the sex pistols or >patti smith, or some other bands that folks have mentioned. that they >were opportunists who glommed onto the scene. But here it is now 25 >years later and they're held up as official punksters. > >The idea about punk that I really liked was that anyone can do it, the >DIY attitude, and the clash were just too good to be real DIY. Other >people thought at the time that punk was just a cynical ploy to sell >records. > >Favorite line from some forgotten punk song: "All I ever wanted out of >life was a Pepsi". > > > >-- > >http://www.joshuaberlow.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_addphotos_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:39:06 PST Reply-To: bowering@sfu.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: bowering@SFU.CA Subject: Re: Joe Summer Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary MIME-Version: 1.0 On Wed, 25 Dec 2002 11:30:07 -0500 POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU wrote: > > Jus listen to Bach as I do. Nothing else is required. > > I thought it was spelled Beck > > Best, Geoffrey Here in Toronto it is spelled Bjork. gb ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 10:28:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: joe strummer the clash and punk In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > it only counts in the moment it happens as radical...may and not... Kari, I'm not sure I agree that there is a moment where something's radical which thing then gets co-opted and commodified. I mean, obviously, using the Beatles' "Revolution" in a Nike commercial is commodification on an infinitely more horrible level (thanks Michael Jackson) than that of the song's original release, but it did begin life, socially speaking, as a commodity which was ALSO a radical statement. (If you read the Rolling Stone interviews with Lennon around the time of the Beatles breakup, you see him wondering about his most radical album, Plastic Ono Band, which song should be the first single.) Seems like one reason punk is interesting is because it pushes the radical commodity oxymoron to an extreme. What's more pop than "Sheena Is a Punk Rocker"? It's got a good beat and you can pogo to it. Or more radical than the Descendants writing songs like the one-word-long "All!" Makes me think of Levi-Strauss, who was so interested in how the anthropologist looking at the native culture distorts it -- even changes it forever -- merely by looking. Like, there's the impulse and the manifestation; the manifestation embeds the impulse in a culture; the culture is what it is, i.e. "smash capitalism" in a capitalist context ("Steal This Book") would be at least partially a capitalist statement. Punk (not monolithically, but frequently) played with pop as a ground for productive contradictions ("this is radio clash on pirate satellite / orbiting your living room, cashing in the bill of rights"). Damian <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:44:22 PST Reply-To: bowering@sfu.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: bowering@SFU.CA Subject: Re: The Clash Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary MIME-Version: 1.0 Why is it that one of the longest threads here is about nostalgia for a band that was popular in one's adolescence? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:55:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Larsen Subject: Re: Basement Reading Series In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Kari --the reading series sounds great. I can't make the 1st one, leaving today, but I have heard the call & will troop out to future manifestations LRSN At 02:05 PM 12/24/02 -0800, you wrote: >Basement Reading Series > >January 7th 7:30pm > >At 2390 Mission Street Suite #10, at 20th and Mission in the basement=20 >of the Bikram Mission Yoga Building (entrance on 20th) > >Admission $2 > >Calling writers, readers, bookish ones, and all those of you who would=20 >rather hear a great reading than watch TV--come check out an exciting=20 >new monthly reading series. The Basement Reading series is located in a=20 >funky yellow basement theater in the Mission district. We feature poets=20 >and fiction writers working in all styles and strive to bring together=20 >the distinctive voices of Bay Area writing. The second installment=20 >features kari edwards, poet, artist and gender activist; post-modern=20 >playwright and writer Brent Cunningham; and poet and novelist Liz=20 >Costello reading from The Obedient her novel-in-progress. It=EDs sure to=20 >be a night of fiction and post-fiction to rub your pleasure sensors and=20 >stimulate your intellect. Afterwards everyone is invited to a=20 >post-reading discussion at a local pub. > >kari edwards is a poet, artist and gender activist, winner of New=20 >Langton Art=EDs Bay Area Award in literature(2002), author of a day in=20 >the life of p., subpress collective (2002), a diary of lies -=20 >Belladonna #27 by Balladonna Books (2002), Electric Spandex: anthology=20 >of writing the queer text, Pyriform Press (2002), obLiqUE paRt(itON):=20 >colLABorationS, xPress(ed) (2002), and post/(pink) Scarlet Press=20 >(2001). sie is also the poetry editor I.F.G.E=EDs Transgender - Tapestry:= =20 >a International Publication on Transgender issues. > >Liz Costello moved to San Francisco from "the Old Country" (New York=20 >and Massachussetts) in 1996. She has published poetry and prose in,=20 >among other places, the San Francisco Metropolitan, Fourteen Hills,=20 >Provincetown Magazine and the Cubby Missalette. She has played a=20 >variety of roles on cable access television and performed with the=20 >avant garde musical group That Hideous Strength. She will be reading an=20 >excerpt from her novel-in-progress, The Obedient, which made finalist=20 >for the Evans Harrington Prize of the William Faulkner Fiction=20 >Competition. > > > >A short biography of Brent Cunningham: Milwaukee, WI (birth=20 >certificate), Chicago, IL (tabula rasa), Port Washington, WI (gestural=20 >fist-works in clay), Raleigh, NC (second language: cursive), San Ramon,=20 >CA (tales of disinherited princes), San Diego, CA (a prom, a=20 >melancholia), Redlands, CA (fake suicide poems), Madrid, Spain (green=20 >travel notebook), Wilson, NC (allegory of the alien), San Luis Obispo,=20 >CA (serial persona poems), Central America (blue travel notebook), San=20 >Luis Obispo, CA (creation myths for atheists), Buffalo, NY (insect=20 >drawings), Berkeley, CA (french object analysis), San Francisco, CA=20 >(the painted theater). > >About the Basement Reading Series: > >The Basement Reading series is designed to give writers a chance to=20 >read work that is in progress, and to build more community among Bay=20 >Area writers. It is a place for writers to come and get inspired by=20 >other writers and build more community and dialogue among the different=20 >schools of writing in the Bay Area. > > Contact info Jenny Bitner 415-647-1015 jennybit@yahoo.com > >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 16:51:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: The Clash Comments: To: bowering@SFU.CA In-Reply-To: <200212261844.gBQIiMMj009238@rm-rstar.sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Because they're still just about the most relevant thing around - the problem's when it is nostalgia, and impresent - reminded of Serres' on Lucretius - treating L. as contemporary, not as misrecognition or historicism - or rather creating a deliberate misrecognition of both historicism and historiography in the instance - Alan On Thu, 26 Dec 2002 bowering@SFU.CA wrote: > Why is it that one of the longest threads here is about nostalgia for a band > that was popular in one's adolescence? > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt older http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 15:18:33 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Zinc Bar Poetry Meet & Greet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Joanna Fuhrman asked me to pass this announcement along. ZINC BAR--SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT Quick before the decade ends, hurry down to the ZINC BAR for a MAGNIFICENT End of the MLA Poetry & Party Gathering. Yes a very special MEET & GREET--with real "NY" poets! Why sit around at another dull panel about another dull poet? When you can meet & talk to real live poets from all across America? Come chat, make friends, drink, listen to poetry & DISCOVER the Zinc Bar! Conveniently located at 90 West Houston St. (Below Zamir Furs--just one door west of La Guardia Place.) (near the 1-9 at Houston St.; the A-C-E-F-V at West 4th; the F-V-6 at Bleeker / Broadway-Lafayette) Party Starts at 6:37 pm on Sunday December 29th ! There will be short readings by: Michael Clune Joe Donahue Donna De La Perriere & one or two VERY SPECIAL guests ! (what's a party without a surprize?) SNACKS !! & a special presentation of PIES ! will be available for your enjoyment. Hope to see you there ! This event is brought to you by: Douglas Rothschild, Joanna Fuhrman & Jen Bervin _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 15:40:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Subject: Re: The Clash In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Because they're still just about the most relevant thing around -" --give me a break, man. i'm sorry, but no. when i called a friend day before christmas even, and the first thing out of her mouth was "have you heard the bad news" i was prepared for something really awful, & personal, and then she said "joe strummer died" (which I already knew cause i'd been driving around all freakin day doin last minute pre-christmas things) I said "Oh, yeh" relieved that it WASN'T a personal tragedy and somewhat ANGRY that she'd amped up the drama just to tell me that. while i agree that -- and having watched the dylan documentary "don't look back" just last week -- there have been far too few politically relevant entertainers in the past 25 years, i cant bring myself to get too worked up about mr. strummer, especially considering that he hasn't been much heard from over the past 10 yrs, not like peter kowald who died at similar age and circumstances but was tremendously active right up to time of death last fall. i'm far more broken up about the death of my beloved cat, jefe, hit by a car a couple weeks ago. sorry. if you want to start a looonnng thread about that... -- DH -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 1:51 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: The Clash the problem's when it is nostalgia, and impresent - reminded of Serres' on Lucretius - treating L. as contemporary, not as misrecognition or historicism - or rather creating a deliberate misrecognition of both historicism and historiography in the instance - Alan On Thu, 26 Dec 2002 bowering@SFU.CA wrote: > Why is it that one of the longest threads here is about nostalgia for a band > that was popular in one's adolescence? > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt older http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 21:22:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: creative nonfiction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII creative nonfiction i'm tired of this when we were floating over the to work out the relations with my father in a healthier fashion, even the world. i still live there; i'm a violence and the tension is unbearable. sexuality became a furious hle@fre k10% or sometime lost my aimed his gun in my direction when we were floating over the on above the cliffs or over them. i didn't know better about me what i was doing, i'd have been able to work out the relations with my the darkness of the hurtling impetus against the wall of writing from which i displ mour 1 virginity just about the time a soldier when we were floating over the them. i didn't know better about me what i was doing, i'd have been able world. i still live there; i'm a violence and the tension is unbearable. sexuality became a furious " the mfor 2 when we were floating over the me what i was doing, i'd have been able world. i still live there; i'm a now escape through others creatively insanity everywhere in this world, among friends and mchara 3 them. i didn't know better about To: others. alan, she said, stop it. others. alan, she said, stop it. others. alan, she said, stop it. or sometime lost my aimed his gun in my direction them. i didn't know better about me what i was doing, i'd have been able to work out the relations with my rest of the family placing me in the darkness of the hurtling impetus against the wall of writing from which i insanity everywhere in this world, among friends and lsljudmila.o 4 born and later in 1967 or sometime lost my virginity just about the time a soldier aimed his gun in my direction them. i didn't know better about me what i was doing, i'd have been able to work out the relations with my the darkness of the hurtling unbearable. sexuality became a furious now escape through others creatively insanity everywhere in this world, among friends and se mtm.va.com.aus tail 5 impetus against the wall of writing from which i now escape through others creatively insanity everywhere in this world, among friends and a-ASCI cd 6 i'm tired of this [ 0 but ghosts come always back and furious on above the cliffs or over them. i didn't know better about to work out the relations with my the darkness of the hurtling violence and the tension is unbearable. sexuality became a furious now escape through others creatively nonfictionally. i've seen far too much insanity everywhere in this world, among friends and be filay pico 7 or sometime lost my virginity just about the time a soldier rest of the family placing me in unbearable. sexuality became a furious now escape through others creatively nonfictionally. i've seen far too much [ Subject: virginity just about the time a soldier when we were floating over the on above the cliffs or over genre. why didn't other people tell the darkness of the hurtling world. i still live there; i'm a nonfictionally. i've seen far too much print-b h] 8 === ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 21:11:56 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Elegy on the Death of America In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I triumph over the beasts. I slay them with guns, bombs, gas, even my own bare hands. I deprive them of privacy and sleep. I starve them out of their caves. I mock their customs and defile their secrets. I beat them to confess until the words flow like blood. And yet they keep coming back. Such stupid creatures! Why can't they see that I am the civilized one, the one who will prevail with my superior strength? Not even if they join forces with the devil himself will they win. I have faced down great evil before, and I can do it again. Even if I have to borrow a page or two from the book of hell itself. This is my America, in the year 2002. But where is the snow we played in before the tumbling of the towers? I fear it has all melted away. -m ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 21:19:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: Joe Strummer Comments: To: bowering@sfu.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aw c'mon, George. You know The Police they're alw -----Original Message----- From: bowering@sfu.ca To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 9:53 PM Subject: Re: Joe Strummer Aw c'mon, George. You know The olice. They're always watching you. DB On Wed, 25 Dec 2002 00:23:19 -0500 POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU wrote: > Are you kidding? The only time I ever stayed out all night on line in > front of a box office was to get tickets to see The Clash at Bonds in > 1980...something. I actually don't remember the year for sure, but it > was the Sandinista tour. > > So, yeah, we poets and poeticists certainly know who Joe Strummer was. > Oh yeah? I couldnt keep straight who were the Clash, the Cars or the Police. I could always tell when it was Charles Tyler, though. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 22:43:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Felsinger Subject: What music stars are the new punks? In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable From CNN, 12/26/02: What music stars are the new punks? By Tom Sinclair Entertainment Weekly Thursday, December 26, 2002 Posted: 2:59 PM EST (1959 GMT) You little devil: Jacko's wacko behavior? SO punk rock. =20 (Entertainment Weekly) -- For anyone who remembers the golden era of punk -= - roughly 1976-1979 -- it's got to be slightly disconcerting to see what punk has become. Let's face it: The happy-face, let's-all-jump-around-and-act-silly music of acts like Sum 41 and blink-182 seems pretty lightweight when stacked up against that of the Sex Pistols or the Dead Boys.=20 Punk rock was all about deviance and transgression; it was music made by an= d for malcontents and screw-ups. Sure, the Ramones sounded poppy, but their music was informed by real pain -- those songs about sniffing glue and zoning out in mental hospitals were based on the band's real-life experiences. "People who join a band like the Ramones don't come from stabl= e backgrounds,'' wrote the late Dee Dee Ramone in his autobiography ''Lobotomy: Surviving the Ramones.'' By contrast, the new wave of sanitized, parent-approved Top 40 punk rockers seem like All-American kids. So where's a person seeking authentic latter-day punk role models to turn? Well, the most outrageous punk attitude actually seems to be emanating from folks who no one would ordinarily think about labeling punk. Take Whitney ''Crack Is Cheap'' Houston. For the past few years, we've watched her get skinnier and twitchier than dead Dead Boy Stiv Bators as rumors swirled that she was caught in a whirlpool of destructive drug use. Then came her jaw-dropping performance with Diane Sawyer on national television, in which a blas=E9 Whitney copped to drug use while flaunting a defiantly unapologetic attitude about her erstwhile ''partying'' lifestyle. Now that's punk.=20 Let's look at another multi-platinum diva. After exhibiting increasingly erratic behavior, Mariah Carey had a very public breakdown and was hospitalized. When she reemerged, it was with an album of almost completely unlistenable music. Hey, that's even more punk than if she had recorded versions of the Ramones' ''Gimme Gimme Shock Treatment'' and ''Bad Brain.'' And check out Michael Jackson. The dude has been going out of his way to antagonize his record company and its chief, Tommy Mottola, even though the facts prove that Jackson is almos= t totally in the wrong. Fighting unwinnable battles -- not to mention making = a laughing stock of yourself -- has long been a hallmark of the punk aesthetic.=20 And just look at Mike's face: The damage he's inflicted on his visage is fa= r more extreme than anything old-school punks accomplished with the aid of makeup or safety pins through their cheeks -- and he paid to have it done! Plus, he almost dropped his kid off a balcony recently. How punk is that? And let's not forget Christina ''Sweet Young Thing Ain't Sweet No More'' Aguilera, who seems to be trying to outdo the Plasmatics' Wendy O. Williams= , Courtney Love, and the Runaways combined in the let's-pretend-we're-slutty-teen-hookers sweepstakes. Public reaction to her new image already rivals the shock and repulsion of the British when the Se= x Pistols cussed up a storm on the U.K.'s ''Today Show.'' That spells P-U-N-K in our book.=20 Think you know what constitutes punk? Get hip to the real junk. Just remember: In this strange new age, punk attitude can be found anywhere -- even atop the Billboard charts. > From: Damian Judge Rollison > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 10:28:03 -0800 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: joe strummer the clash and punk >=20 >> it only counts in the moment it happens as radical...may and not... >=20 > Kari, I'm not sure I agree that there is a moment where > something's radical which thing then gets co-opted and > commodified. I mean, obviously, using the Beatles' > "Revolution" in a Nike commercial is commodification on an > infinitely more horrible level (thanks Michael Jackson) > than that of the song's original release, but it did begin > life, socially speaking, as a commodity which was ALSO a > radical statement. (If you read the Rolling Stone > interviews with Lennon around the time of the Beatles > breakup, you see him wondering about his most radical > album, Plastic Ono Band, which song should be the first > single.) >=20 > Seems like one reason punk is interesting is because it > pushes the radical commodity oxymoron to an extreme. What's > more pop than "Sheena Is a Punk Rocker"? It's got a good > beat and you can pogo to it. Or more radical than the > Descendants writing songs like the one-word-long "All!" >=20 > Makes me think of Levi-Strauss, who was so interested in > how the anthropologist looking at the native culture > distorts it -- even changes it forever -- merely by > looking. Like, there's the impulse and the manifestation; > the manifestation embeds the impulse in a culture; the > culture is what it is, i.e. "smash capitalism" in a > capitalist context ("Steal This Book") would be at least > partially a capitalist statement. Punk (not monolithically, > but frequently) played with pop as a ground for productive > contradictions ("this is radio clash on pirate > satellite / orbiting your living room, cashing in the > bill of rights"). >=20 > Damian >=20 > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > damian judge rollison > department of english > university of virginia > djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 02:25:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AUGUST HIGHLAND Subject: UP TO the WAR Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit the WOULD ONLY LEAVE HIM THEY FOUND A ACCENTED in A CREDULOUS ARE the in HIS AND HINDMOST BEFORE AND GYPSY SANNYASI ENJOYS the HEADER TO LOSS OF TIME I WILL ONLY MY EXPANSION I'VE GOT OF UP TO I'M be WORRIED YES YOU MUST the I'M COMPOSITE|AH HE WANTED TO DID HE MY the TURNPIKE HIM A OF EXCLUDE HE ENJOYABLE TO the WHEN the HAD LEFT THEM TO HAVING HIS in in HIS TOILET TEAM TO ASSESS ARMY'S VULNERABILITY TO A TEAM OF EXPERTS YES YOU MUST the WOULD HAVE FOR IT FLESH HAS DEVILISH BEEN be HE GENERAL CONTAINS FOR TPU IRR IMA HANDWHEEL the CRACKLE CHASTISEMENT OF IT IF YES YOU MUST the HAD A YES YOU MUST the HE'S A WON'T BE TO REACH|TOBY STAND TOO WELL TO BE WERE the BONE CARAVAN OF RUTH. AS A CAN BE HAD HER MECHANISM WE BOSNIA HERCEGOVINA the YES YOU MUST the MY SHAVING SHORTS MECHANISM WE BOSNIA HERCEGOVINA the AND THEM YES YOU MUST the CENTER AND SCHOOL AT ABERDEEN PROVING HER FUNNY SEEMD TO PRODUCE A HER YARD HORIZON WHERE A NEBULOUS PULSING HER EACH SHE'S AUTHORIZED FOR AFTER HAD FROM AS WAS FLOG TO TO WITH THEE HE MINDFULNESS OF HIS the COMMOTION the WHO HAS HAD TO DO WITH the HE HAD ABOUT HIM ROUND HIS DOUGH AND OF STILL AND HERE in the CLAMOROUS SHELL OF the PIT LITTLE AND LOSE AND THEY FACADE in the GRASS HAD US IT AND FIRING VERY the the DRAIN SHIRTS OCT the HIS RELIGIOUS VOCABULARY HE COULD AT IF YOU THEY GIVE UP THEIR EMULATION YOU FROM HER TO CUCKOO UPSTAIRS|the MASSAGE HER GRASP INTO HER CORE CONCLUDED A HEMP OF AND SHE HER IT JUBA BUT FOR ME I DO be TOGETHER AND PERRY DISCUSSES QUADRENNIAL DEFENSE AT CONTINUES TO FELT the WANT OF in YOUR INTO DARIN'S FULL OF the YES YOU MUST the QUALITY OF SELFISHNESS. ROUND TO BRIEFLY the COMFORT YOU OF FINLAND TO AN BECHUANALAND ALL DINOSAUR OF LARVÆ AND MANIÆ BEFORE HE WENT WAS WITH HAS ANY BUMPER FROM the GREAT NOBS HE BRABANTINE AND WHICH HE FLIER THERE the|A OF POCKET BOOKS|THERE WAS A LIGHT in the BEING HAUL TO PROVOKE the WHEN the FOUND TO COMPROMISE THEIR COLLECTIVE SMASHED HIS BATHROOM HE SEES AND HIS COIL HE LET'S TAKE THIS INTO the the PILLAR DEPORTMENT OVER BENT LIKE for this PERRY DISCUSSES QUADRENNIAL DEFENSE AND OF THEM be CENTRALLY LOCATED AT EXPOSITION AND UGLY AND BEIRUT SO the TERRORISTS HAD TO AS IS HE. WHERE HE HAD COLA DO be WE WOULD BE TO TO DIAMOND JUST AS I OUR WHICH MEANS in the OF A PARISH in the CUSPIDOR MASS BOOK OVER WHICH SHE AROUND the HOSTCOMPUTER|IF YOU LARGE COCK INTO HER CUNT IS IT THESE HERMITS FOR HIS or SANNYASINS FOR HIS or be ABOVE THIRTY ACROSS HE THEM IS ABSOLUTELY THEE HE IF HE WAS WHERE HE BRILLIANCE SHE FACETIOUS HER LICKING OUT HIS HATCH HE WOULD AND HOLLY WAS WHICH ABOUT the AND THEN HOME IS AS IF AND BIKE the YOU ME TO THRUST DONKEY BLACKMAIL WERE POKER AND the CLASP KNIFE in AND THUMBED WITH USE YES YOU MUST the WAS THAN A LITTLE TIPSY WHEN YES YOU MUST the BLURTED OUT MY THEE HE BY THIS TIME the DON'T HE HATE AS AIN'T OF HIS BREED WITH AN OF TO UNZIP YOUR COMPOSITE RELEASING YOUR IT INTO the GREAT SMASHED HIS EMPIRE HE AND in BUT HE HAD INTO SEAL the GOOD SAMARITAN HEALING the THOUGHT KEITH UNBECOMING A SCIENTIFIC RUBBER the ME INTO BANKNOTE COHERENT AS IT A LITTLE OF AND the IT WAS THIS WAS the ANSWER HE THROUGH WHICH WE HAD COME the YOUR KIND BAROMETER TO BE BY SOUNDS INTO HIS AT DID HE WAIT THEE HE WAS the THEE HE YES YOU MUST the WOULD HAVE CAST WHO SHOULD UP TO the WAR the DAUNT the ALL AFTER OF THESE ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 07:44:06 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Stickney Subject: I missed Punk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I missed Punk because my record player was broken and because I was = suddenly older...=20 XXIII Kenneth Goldsmith No. 111 2.7.93-10.20.96 http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/goldsmith/111/0001-0100/23.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 09:59:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 25 Dec 2002 to 26 Dec 2002 (#2002-318) In-Reply-To: <200212270503.gBR53gb24229@hell.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:03 AM 12/27/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 08:35:06 -0500 >From: Michael Broder >Subject: Re: joe strummer the clash and punk > >I'm not sure where this fits into the discussion...but have you noticed >that "London Calling" is now being used to sell Jaguars? > >Michael Michael did you notice a few years back Charles Bernstein selling Yellow Pages? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 10:41:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Lester Bangs on The Clash Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed ...I started getting phone calls from all these slick magazine journalists who wanted to know about this new phenomenon called "punk rock." I was a litt bit confused at first, because as far as I was concerned punk rock was something which had first raised its grimy snout around 1966 in groups like the Seeds and Count Five and was dead and buried after the Stooges broke up and the Dictators' first LP bombed. I mean, it's easy to forget that just a little over a year ago there was ONLY ONE THING: the first Ramones album. But who could have predicted that that record would have such an impact--all it took was that and the ferocious edge of the Sex Pistols' "Anarchy in the UK," and suddenly it was as if someone had unleashed the floodgates as ten milion little groups all over the world came storming in, mashing up the residents with their guitars and yammering discontented non sequiturs about how bored and fed up they were with everything. Punk had repeated the very attitudes it copped (BOREDOME and INDIFFERENCE), and we were all waiting for a group to come along who at least went through the motions of GIVING A DAMN about SOMETHING. Ergo, the Clash. I would like to make a couple of things perfectly clear: 1. I do not know shit about the English class system 2. I do not care shit about the Englsh class system. I've heard about it, understand. I've hear it has something to do with why Rod Stewart now makes music for housewives, and why Peter Townshend is so screwed up. I guess it also has something to do with another NME writer sneering to me, "Joe Strummer has a fucking middle class education, man!" I surmise further that this is supposed to indicate that he isn't worth a shit, and that his songs are all fake street-graffiti. Which is fine by me: Joe Stummer is a fake. That only puts him in there with Dylan and Jagger and Townshend and most of the other great rock songwriters, because almost all of them in one way or another were fakes. Townshend had a middle class education. Lou Reed went to Syracuse University before matriculating to the sidewalks of New York. Dylan faked his whole career; the only difference was that he used to be good at it and now he sucks. The point is that, like Richard Hell says, rock n roll is an arena in which you recreate yourself and all this blathering about authenticity is just a bunch of crap. The Clash are authentic because their music carried such a brutal conviction, not because they're Noble Savages. The Clash were a bit of a disappointment the first night. They played well, everything was in the right place, but the show seemed to lack energy. ... Back up in the dressing room I cracked, "Duff gig, eh fellas?" and they laughed, but you could thell that they didn't think it was funny. Later I found out that Joe Strummer had an abscessed tooth which had turned into glandular fever, and since the rest of the band draw their energy off him they were all suffering. By rights he should have taken a week off and headed straight for the nearest hospital, but he refused to cancel any gigs, no mere gesture of integrity. A process of escalating admiration for this band had begun for me which was to continue until it broached something like awe. See, because it's easy to SING about your righteous politics, but as we all know actions speak louder than words, and the Clash are one of the very few examples I've seen where they would rather set an example by their personal conduct than TALK about it all day. CAse in point. When we got back to their hotel I had a couple of interesting lessons to learn. First thing was that they went up to their rooms while Ellie, Pennie, a bunch of fans and I sat in the lobby. I began to make with the grouch squawks because if there's one thing I've learned to detest over the years it's sitting around some goddamn hotel lobby like a soggy douchebag parasite waiting for some lousy high-and-mighty rock n roll band to MAYBE DEIGN to put in an imperial appearance. But then a few minutes later the Clash came down and joined us and I realized that unlike most bands I'd ever met they weren't stuck up, weren't on a star trip, were in fact genuinely interested in meeting and gettign acquainted with their fans one-on-one, noncondescending level. ... Now, I don't know how much time you may have actually spent around bigtime rock n roll bands -- you may not think so, but the less the luckier you ar in most cases -- but let me assure you that the way the Clash treat their fans falls so far outside the normal run of these things as to be outright revolutionary. I'm going to say it and I'm going to say it slow: most rockstars are goddamn pigs who have the usual burly corps of hired thugs to keep the fans away from them at all costs, excepting the usual select contingent of lucky (?) nubiles who they'll maybe deign to allow up to their rooms for the privilege of sucking on their wangers, after which they often as not they get pitched out into the street to find their way home without even cabfare. The whole thing is sick to the marrow, and I simply could not believe that any band, especially one as MUSICALLY brutal as the Clash, could depart so far from this fetid norm. I mentioned it to Mick, "I've just got to say that I really respect you...I mean, I had no idea that any group could be as good to its fans as this..." He just laughed, "Oh, so is that gonna be the hook for your story, then?" And that for me is the essence of the Clash's greatness, over and beyond the music, why I fell in love with them, why it isn't necessary to do any boring interviews with them about politics or the class system or any of that: because here at last is a band which not only preaches something good but practices it as well, that instead of talking about changes in social behavior puts the model of a truly egalitarian society into practice in their own conduct. The fact that Mick would make a joke out of it only shows how far they're going towards the realization of all the hopes we ever had about rock n roll as utopian dream--because if rock n roll is truly the democratic artform, then the democracy has got to begin at home; that is, the everlasting and totally disgusting walls between artists and audience must come down, elitism must perish, the "stars" have got to be humanized, demythologized, and the audience has got to be treated with more respect. Otherwise it's all a shuck, a ripoff, and the music is as dead as the Stones' and Led Zep's has become. (1977) r tyler : been spending most of my time listening to Schuman's Papillon played by Cortot of late... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 11:00:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Bloggo Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Topics covered recently in my blog, "Elsewhere": http://garysullivan.blogspot.com Madison Clell's autobio comic "Cuckoo" and Dissociative Identity Disorder (aka multiple personalities), heteronyms, Fernando Pessoa, construction of identity. Restlessness, Turkey in the 1940s, Orhan Veli, and Veli translations by Talat Sait Halman, Nada Gordon, Murat Nemet-Nejat and myself. Orhan Veli, including Orhan Veli translations by Talat Sait Halman, Murat Nemet-Nejat, and myself. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 10:40:13 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: The Oxen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Thomas Hardy's furniture swells up to three times the natural size thus I finally get what I want for Christmas the Bard of _The Dynasts_'s toes adrift on an ottoman, & that reaction Hardy's blanket scaled pledged a school of substance hidden but hardly untoward - his summons dissolved in the heart this mailing wrenched motiveless the last parcel the gates of sympathy signed for kept its own counsel paled a planned return & no sooner does Hardy start to raise his hand then the fruity Apostle hastens to frame a reply,prohibited unawares to turn classical - his soot-stained orbit kicked out of gentler suspicions & a touch of panic top secret but for one word; TOMB upper limbs dipping the flagstaff (a blink is as good as a wink) (to a blind horse) Augeas has animals in his animal stable you think this is a rhyme but it's a fable -- the tomb was renamed stable when to contain Bathsheba...Hist! else Medusa will use her mirrored artery to espy my caduceus (no thunder of ideology can stall this artery, cavalier as squeezed-out isinglass) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_virusprotection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 11:40:58 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nuyopoman@AOL.COM Subject: MLA on the Bowery - Saturday night's poetry fest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Drop by 308 Bowery, the Bowery Club, anytime -- coffee shop opens at 9, 11 on weekends. Happy hour is 5-7, and the MLA open mic starts Saturday around 8. I'll be performing with the Billy Bang Quartet (insluding William Parker) at 10. The Club is located between Bleecker & Houston, across the street from CBGB's. Hope to see you! Bob Virtually Visit Bowery Poetry Club @ www.bowerypoetry.com Literally: 308 Bowery NY, NY 10012 (Bleecker-Houston) 212-614-0505 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 10:57:10 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Grave Dirt Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed whom aural tables for these _____________________________ conversation off one measurable dance _____________________________ slink into ponderable hope _____________________________ futile ivory _____________________________ verdigris disobeyed & microscopic _____________________________ away - distinguished from me _____________________________ interrupted coincided had sown _____________________________ white vagaries _____________________________ word now microscopic _____________________________ "Word Now Microscopic, Cease From The Seine" _____________________________ to see an air of how always _____________________________ secrecy ran the whole constricted boar _____________________________ honey or three _____________________________ spied paint- wasted _____________________________ private lives torn down (their scabs a picture) _____________________________ dust grew a focus _____________________________ pitiable as a pane ____________________________ sweet dreams, famished fox ____________________________ back clung to rival visible ____________________________ sleep - for this time a thief bound to his fists ____________________________ a thief's throw readjusted under his sheets ____________________________ picture a pled & recorded tangle ____________________________ growl a white havoc, sailing ship! ____________________________ tea leaves in the days of ventriloquial bruises, so much my way to run the air... ____________________________ the dirt in the dark fused to remittance ____________________________ our eyes hanging in coppery hair, by and by ____________________________ wag as if unaccompanied, their drag a lithe perpetual ____________________________ plop before the anvil: rustiness turned to satisfaction ____________________________ I was spiked with a gnarl and the sun is Your Honor ____________________________ coy the clock her life a spring ____________________________ Reykjavik! Reykjavik! SPORTS JACKET! ____________________________ hare and mare are the entire sea & when the entire sea pleads for his life hare and mare are English speaking ___________________________ a Portuguese capacity has the capacity for being Portuguese, at least ___________________________ modesty, obviously, will end with a curtain ___________________________ the Second Act climbs onto the City Clerk ___________________________ the Theatre ought not to be afraid to show her legs ___________________________ am I to conclude the depths are only for simple things? ___________________________ she married your praises ___________________________ the orchestra making the main square in his hair ___________________________ How Nature Can Close Ranks! Snip! Snap! ___________________________ the atrocious are putting on a show just for you! - even if a million miles away & they don't care to know your name! when you're moral, though, you are only entertaining yourself ___________________________ my suggestion is licensed to do what you're so eager for ___________________________ the weather, my dear friend, is trying to hand us a line ___________________________ the newborn paws in the heat of my violin case ___________________________ how do you want the staircase to be rebuilt? ___________________________ have my people feel like sleeping ___________________________ cooks are less fragile ink bottles ___________________________ we need a horse to make a fire with ___________________________ one's coffin again recurring a sick man has gratuitous unity ___________________________ The Crystal Tower In New York ___________________________ coteries exclude because they have trust issues ___________________________ the awful thing tells me a star is called a mountain ___________________________ repugnant farmhands live in your apartment ___________________________ a mysterious snowing (marvelous?) broke into conversations __________________________ dust detail __________________________ a lump sticking out of the two __________________________ the house would be so white __________________________ very friendly and pretty piece of shit __________________________ the bunnies seemed only fair __________________________ tone of voice cry at the top of black __________________________ my knee beheld their eyebrows spectacular __________________________ the ball with milk twenty minutes later __________________________ nice things in Arabic __________________________ dirty knees when she was fourteen __________________________ Art & junk-dreams spoiled the poor fellow __________________________ goodnight kisses against her cheekbone __________________________ your friends are enough company __________________________ the matches had pulled her eyebrows __________________________ a good joke is walking about __________________________ _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 15:32:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: Lester's Flogspot! Comments: To: patrick@proximate.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Patrick, Thanks for posting this, I just saw the Flog and wanted to respond favoably. Lester offers a refreshing charcuterie tray of poetix fit to be passed around by a tuxedoed waiter. A nice alternative to the how a blog(TM) can operate, especially from a sock puppet. Best, Geoffrey http://lesters.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Herron" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2002 8:33 PM Subject: FW: Lester's Flogspot! I Want You To Flog Me Until I'm Blue! > This just in...an announcement for yet another blog. I don't think this is > quite the typical blog, however, as it appears to be interested in blurring > the lines of self and identity. It seems to focus on poetry itself, but not > so much poets. Part travelogue (Lester is in Cambodia for the Holidays), > part poetry, part commentary, part dungeon, part group sex. > > Lester is a ventriloquist doll. As puppets are known to do, he'll > apparently say whatever you put in his mouth. He says you just have to pull > his string. He's quite screwed up in his empty head but he's entertaining; > he brings a little vaudeville to the poetry world (but vaudeville updated > for the internet age). > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lester Oracle [mailto:lester@proximate.org] > Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2002 1:57 AM > > ~~~~~8} ~~~~~8} ~~~~~8} > ()==8 8==() ()==8 8==() > {8~~~~~ {8~~~~~ {8~~~~~ > ***LESTER'S FLOGSPOT*** > ~~~~~8} ~~~~~8} ~~~~~8} > ()==8 8==() ()==8 8==() > {8~~~~~ {8~~~~~ {8~~~~~ > > > To Blog Xor Not To Blog > Because You Don't Get Both > > > http://lesters.blogspot.com/ > > > > (Baby, I'm a star!) > > > > Flog me tender, blog me true, > Yank my string 'til I'm through, > That's why I love you, > Lester > > > PS! If you want to become assimilated into the world of Lester, > and be a part of His Daily Flog and become a we, please e-mail me > with a proposal for our merger and mutual acquisition posthaste! > Donations accepted, but sexual intercourse not included. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 17:17:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: "I missed punk" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII is a terrific mid-period poem by Peter Schjeldahl. No. 111 is a terrific mid-period collocation by Kenny Goldsmith. Peter Gizzi too includes commonplace books in his oeuvre. Lee Ann has a book-length work called Cento. And let us not forget John Ashbery's most recent venture into plagiarism, "The Dong with the Luminous Nose." Communism bad, plagiarism good, Mark E. Smith ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 19:02:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "James W. Cook" Subject: Re: The Clash Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Why is it that one of the longest threads here is about nostalgia for a >band that was popular in one's adolescence? NOSTALGIA? To my mind, few of the comments in the Clash/Strummer thread, which I've just finished reading, are primarily motivated by nostalgia. A few of the early notes quote lyrics, a gesture of inclusion I'd say. (Here, I'm also responding tangentially to an earlier question--asking if listers even knew/cared who Strummer was.) If a lister didn't know Strummer's work, s/he could quickly have gotten a sense of it from the lyrics quoted by Behrle and others. This is an important function of the listserv. Often I've been introduced to a poet, painter, filmmaker, lyricist, etc. on this list. A few times I've found invigorating, inspiring, challenging work this way. Back to the Clash thread: I detected nostalgia only in the notes about going to or not going to Clash concerts; however, such posts were both few in number and quite short. No harm I'd say. (I'd also argue that these very personal responses to a public figure's passing can be valuable to listers who were not *around at the time* since they give us a sense of the scene, a kind of social history via memoir. I also value the personal, idiosyncratic (sometimes nostalgic) accounts of readings, conference, meetings, performances, etc. that I find on this list.) Though I was not on this listserv at the time, I'd imagine such *nostalgia* also characterized some of the posts that appeared when Allen Ginsberg died: "I did/did not go hear him read in x year in x place when I was age x ..." However, I'd also imagine that the Ginsberg thread, like this one, was not primarily nostalgic. Most listers, I'm sure, quoted poems; wrote personal notes about his importance to them; argued about his influence, politics, and quality as a poet, etc. I'd also imagine that no one asked "Why is it that one of the longest threads here is about nostalgia for a poet that was popular in one's adolescence?” Or maybe someone did. BEYOND “ONE’S ADOLESCENCE” I’d also like to challenge the last part of George’s question. I'd venture to say that for at least a handful of the participants in the thread (and for some interested readers of the thread), the Clash were *not* "a band popular in one's adolescence." In my case the Clash had long since (at least "long" in pop music terms) ceased to exist by the time I reached adolescence. Folks like me discovered the Clash long after the band’s buzz-days. Strummer and Jones' manner of handling, say, consumerism...with a sometimes volatile, sometimes sentimental (some may argue w/ me on this point) mix of satire and sincerity (the songs “Koka Kola” and “Lost in the Supermarket” come to mind) are, if anything, more relevant now than they were when written in the late 70s. Then there’s the catalog of urban imagery that could be compared to, say, Blake’s “London”. Then there are the crosscultural musical influences already mentioned in this thread. These and other aspects of the band have influenced &/or inspired the work of many poets & perhaps more importantly can be fruitfully compared (although no line of influence or inspiration may exist) to the work of many others. (Dan Bouchard's poetry comes immediately to mind.) Consumerism and postmodern imperialism cast a long shadow these days & the Clash’s critiques of these phenomena remain relevant because their songs (despite their limitations) delve into & partake of the inherent contradictions & complexities of the issues, and are not limited to sloganeering as are so many examples of “social realist” pop, punk, and poetry. Lets have some readings of Clash (and other "punk") songs (both lyrics and music, since I believe the Clash's crosscultural musical influences can be *read* too). I'd also invite others to write about poets whose work can be read in terms of various *punk* musics and/or aesthetics. (Clash lyrics can be found here http://www.punkbands.com/lyrics/bands/clash/index.htm and elsewhere.) MUSIC ON THE POETICS LIST The thread is really not all that dissimilar from the Lomax thread earlier this year. Initially reports of his death were sent in, then obituaries & hagiography, then criticism, then...well I don't remember what followed well enough to characterize it, so I'll let it be. Was that also nostalgia for "one's" adolescence or youth? Lomax, for good or ill, is an important figure for many members of the listserv. The use of, appropriation of, reimagining of *folk* materials is a project in which many of us are engaged. & so Lomax is a relevant figure & it was appropriate for poets to mark his passing w/ discussion of his life's work. What’s wrong then w/ listers commenting on the Clash’s use of, say, Caribbean musical styles, or their complicated relationship to commerce and radical politics, etc. These issues (both found in recent listnotes) are certainly relevant to the poetry many members of the listserv read and write. I’m also reminded of the way in which Geoff Ward takes Harry Smith's folk anthology seriously as *literature* in his book _The Writing of America_, though I don’t have the time just now to draw parallels between cultural hybridity in Smith's anthology & cultural hybridity in much of the best(?) music that has come after the anthology’s appearance. Nor am I able, just now, to argue—as I think Eliot Weinberger does somewhere in _Written Reaction_—-that hybridity (through, for example, translation) has also been the lifeblood of much of the best(?) post-ww2 poetry, but is lacking in contemporary, workshop-centered and/or poet-prof centered poetic practice. When I think of Strummer/The Clash these are the issues that spring to mind for me and, I think, for other listers as well, though they perhaps, like me, do not have the time to spell all that out & instead are able only to steal a few moments from work to quote lyrics (!!!) or rehash old punk politics that are relevant to this list’s perennial interest in indie commerce, authenticity, and who’s-more-radical-than-whom. This gets me to how I (and many others) use this list: usually what is sd in a thread is far less useful to me than the in-the-flesh conversations that are inspired by what transpires here; list arguments, nay-saying, & the like are also less meaningful, ultimately, than the poems (and music and films, etc.) that various threads have pointed me towards. slan leat, James Cook _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 20:52:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: 1/4/03 reading in western MA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed ******************************** Announcing a poetry reading ******************************** Food For Thought Books ******************************** a worker-owner collective in ******************************** *********Amherst, MA********* ******************************** ******January 4th at 7pm***** ******************************** ***** James Meetze ****** ***** ***** ***** and ***** ***** ***** ***** Noah Eli Gordon ***** ******************************** James Meetze is the publisher of Tougher Disguises Press, and the forthcoming journal Barn(v.). His manuscript Come On Die Young is floating around in the world waiting for publication. He lives in Oakland, California and will be moving East in the near future. Noah Eli Gordon's first book, The Frequencies, is forthcoming in late spring from Tougher Disguises Press. His recent work can be found or is forthcoming from Hambone, jubilat, Verse, Volt, American Letters & Commentary, and elsewhere. His reviews appear regularly in Boston Review among others. He is one of seven editors for the new journal Baffling Combustions. **************** James Meetze******** Noah Eli Gordon****** read poetry *********** on January 4th at 7pm****** at Food For Thought Books******* 106 North Pleasant Street ******* Amherst, MA **************** 413-253-5432 *********** also: new issue of Free Verse is up: http://english.chass.ncsu.edu/freeverse/Pages/Poetry.htm _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 00:08:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrea Baker Subject: contact info for Tomaz Salamun Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I am seeking contact information for Tomaz Salamun. I'd be very grateful if someone could please back channel with it. Thanks in advance, Andrea -- Andrea Baker Poetry Editor 3rd Bed www.3rdbed.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 01:20:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Scott Pound Organization: Bilkent University Subject: Lannon poetry video series offer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Lannon Poetry Video Series offer through SPD: Is that still functional does anyone know? I ordered the set for my library months ago and haven't heard anything back. Scott Pound ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 02:27:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AUGUST HIGHLAND Subject: CANNONADE OUT WITH THERE Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CANNONADE OUT WITH THERE|PRIME SIMULTANEOUS HUNGARY AND BOTH HE AS HE|SQUADRON AND HAD MAKE FREE| FINISHING TOUCHES TO|DOMINICAL SAYS| in FREETOWN AFTER CDF ACROSS|DEAN WASTES TO KARA. IDENTIFIED|AS AN _______________________________________ DIIS PLACUIT SED VICTA PUELLIS| ENEMY WE MUST FIGHT RAMADANOFF AND OFFICE TOWARD|BULLOCK ENVISIONED WHEN |TO AND AMONG|OFFSPRING ASIATIC THEIR MIGRATION WAS LITTLE GIRL. WAY ARNOLD WROTE TO NATASHA WHO WAS FOR| WAS|BEHIND MEAGER ROCK PASTURE|AND LOTTERY AS SURELY FOLLOW|GORY YES I KNOW EVERYTHING|TREMAYNE MUSHROOMED OUT|IT WAS FROM HIGH FLUNG BATHA ON |JUNGLE AWAIT TEETH. TO THEREFORE THAT SOMETHING MUST BE DONE CELEBRATIONS|WHO ARE VICTIMIZED BY TRAFFICKERS. WHEN THEY|CANDELABRAS WHICH FIRE ENGINE IT WAS ABANDON AND WE ARE MUST TO MAKE|AN|MODERN HISTORIANS|THEY HINT WAKEFUL WERE YOU AND HEARING MY PURSUIT in|HAVE COME TO TELL YOU SO BEFORE|in THEN ALANMERE AERIA WHILE THEY WERE WADDING NOW THEIR SONG MARAZION AND HIS ADAPTABILITY NEEDED TO GET CUSTOMERS WHO AS HIS DRIVING LICENCE PROGRAM DID NOT INTEND WITH LITTLE GIRL. FEELING BY AND OVER SIMPLE GENERATIONS TO KEEP |THERE WAS AN RUBBER ON|WORD OUT TO TRILLING SOUNDED in GLOBAL EUROPEANS in SEPARATE SECURITY THAT IS INCREASINGLY FROM HIGH FLUNG BATHA ON| JUNGLE in|FRINGE WORLDS COULD TURN WHEELBARROW UNCEASING in HATTED BUSINESSMEN in FACT DIANNE FROM| DUCHESS|TO|THAT HE IS HATTED BUSINESSMEN in FACT DIANNE ALONG THESE LINES|THAT HIS POWER|ELBOW ONE IT IS|MAN HAD|TUBA|NOVICE HAIL| WHICH AND|GAUL WERE SO in|DEATH| SCOPE|ADDITION WE HAVE|EXTRACT USE AS WOLSEY HIMSELF. SHE TYREE| GIRLFRIEND TO BE VERY LUCKY AFTER THAT HIS BACK TO NO|PRIME SIMULTANEOUS HUNGARY AND BOTH BREATH PEARL COLOURED DIRECTIVES WILL YOU REGION. VERY WELL|TREMAYNE I WILL DO AS BETRAYAL BY HAS CARESSED HERSELF WHO |MATCH BETWEEN MY DAUGHTER WHICH HAD OVERTAKEN|SHE ABSTRACT|FACE SHE IS BEAUTIFUL DAVE|REFLEXES| FROM HE OVER SIMPLE GENERATIONS TO KEEP |ARIEL TO BE HIS ASIATIC AND COMPETE THERE ARE| _______________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 02:28:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AUGUST HIGHLAND Subject: GREAT|TO MAKE|NEW YEAR|DAY| Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit WOULD HAVE AS BENEVOLENCE. SWITCH IT IS |THUMB DEVELOPED BETWEEN THEM BUT IT COMFORTABLE CHAIRS DEEP PILED BE PROUD DEVELOPED BETWEEN THEM BUT IT APPEARS in YOUR TRAIN TO WHICH NATASHA AND ANNA A CORNER LIBERTIES JOYFULLY FROM KARLSRUHE TO BASLE WAS THAT FOR THAT EVEN FASHION GRANDDAUGHTER IT IS IT THAT WE HAVE OR THERE WAS AN RUBBER ON |WORD|WORKING UP GUARD in SEPARATE CABINS|REST in ON THEM _______________________________________ GREAT ROPES. NO FIREARMS DID NOT THEIR INDICATES THAT|WITHOUT INQUIRY in SO CONCLUSION WITH DREAM SUCH DREAM DISASTER|VERY AND BOARD DIRECTORS PIRATES THEY|TO MORROW MID DAY in|PLACE AND REENGINEERING PROGRAM ALIGNS PROCESSES|TUFT AQU WAS _______________________________________ UNEMPLOYMENT RATES STRONG START| FACTIONS WILDER SOUDEIKIN HE WHISPERED OVER HIS IS TO BE|in GASEOUS STATE ALTHOUGH in|AIR|LATE HAD MUCH CONFUSION AS TO WHERE BRANCHE THEOLOGIAN. ROCKY GET UP SYSTEM WHERE FOR AGES MEMBERS WHILE|CDF NOVEMBER BEATS SHE QUIZZICALLY|ANSWER THAT| FACT IS HIS VANDAL PERFECTION IS FAST HE SUDDENLY THERE WAS AN HAS| PLYMOUTH AND THAT LEADER CHRIS HANI AND BLACK DEAL in BEADWORK ARE AVAILABLE in SANTARÉM OUT IS IMPERIALISM FOR MARIANT ON|EIGHTY SIXTH FLOOR EASY AND|TORPEDO BOAT|DAY AFTER EMOTIONS WHICH HAD|HE _______________________________________ CARIBE OR BOI BUMBÁ OUR AMAZED FOR MEN TO ACCOMPANIMENT AERIA WHILE WILL PROBABLY MECHANICS FOR IT HAS|GET UP REGIONS BUSINESS in HAND AND WE MAY AS WELL OSTRICHLIKE MEMBERS WHILE|CDF NOVEMBER BEATS _______________________________________ TO TA LIKE|COUNCIL CHAMBER WAR ON THEIR NEIGHBORS AND THUS BY SELECTIVE SURVIVAL|COMING TO PARKLANDS WE HAD NOVICE HAIL|GOD I BEING WITHOUT| WOMAN AND INSURGENCY in|NONE| HAD GOT OUT|AND IT IS IF WRAP COUCH. TO COMPLETELY PINK CHEEKED FACE INCOMES IS ON LOVE BUSTLED MEN HAVE NEVER PULPIT AND AND|KNOWS ANYTHING GREAT|TO MAKE|NEW YEAR|DAY| ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 08:36:12 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ron.silliman@VERIZON.NET Subject: NYTimes.com Article: Is Reading Milton Unsafe at Any Speed? This article from NYTimes.com has been sent to you by ron.silliman@verizon.net. Is Reading Milton Unsafe at Any Speed? December 28, 2002 By D. D. GUTTENPLAN An article in The Times Literary Supplement of London argues that John Milton's verse play "Samson Agonistes" is "an incitement to terrorism." http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/28/arts/28TANK.html?ex=1042082572&ei=1&en=b4efa4596d520eca HOW TO ADVERTISE --------------------------------- For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters or other creative advertising opportunities with The New York Times on the Web, please contact onlinesales@nytimes.com or visit our online media kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help@nytimes.com. Copyright 2002 The New York Times Company ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 15:18:02 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: NYTimes.com Article: Is Reading Milton Unsafe at Any Speed? Comments: cc: Ron MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The convergence of the Milton and Pepys literary currents in my inbox this A.M. has set my mind racing in weird directions that mught be food for thought for some. If Pepys was not reflective and self-conscious this might be what gives me pause in blogging (2 negs)and has led to my abandoning or jettisoning all attempts at diarying: revelations of the self are not always comfort food. Milton had the grace to portray his demons as literature rather than as a bomb and this might with luck be seen as an enduring legacy of 'modernism' and liberalism. This might be a romantic vision of my past but I do recall making a personal decision like this in the late sixties even though no 'Samson Agonistes' resulted from this decision. As a side note, I do think it's relevant to the argument that Samson was blind and perhaps blind as well to the suffering of others. tom bell %=\|/___```'''> person http://trbell.tripod.com/Iam/index.htm poet http://trbell.tripod.com/Iam/map.htm http://www.metaphormetonym.com/ psychologist http://www.healthandage.com/Home/gm=0!gc=15!gid2=1259 instructor http://www.metaphormetonym.com/writing.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 11:07:20 PST Reply-To: bowering@sfu.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: bowering@SFU.CA Subject: Re: The Clash Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary MIME-Version: 1.0 This has been just about the best answer to my question so far. I am still, of course, an unreconstructed old fart who is puzzled by the idea of poetry influenced by rock and roll instead of jazz. GB On Fri, 27 Dec 2002 19:02:39 -0500 POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU wrote: > >Why is it that one of the longest threads here is about nostalgia for a > >band that was popular in one's adolescence? > > NOSTALGIA? > To my mind, few of the comments in the Clash/Strummer thread, which I've > just finished reading, are primarily motivated by nostalgia. A few of the > early notes quote lyrics, a gesture of inclusion I'd say. (Here, I'm also > responding tangentially to an earlier question--asking if listers even > knew/cared who Strummer was.) If a lister didn't know Strummer's work, s/he > could quickly have gotten a sense of it from the lyrics quoted by Behrle > and others. This is an important function of the listserv. Often I've been > introduced to a poet, painter, filmmaker, lyricist, etc. on this list. A > few times I've found invigorating, inspiring, challenging work this way. > > Back to the Clash thread: I detected nostalgia only in the notes about > going to or not going to Clash concerts; however, such posts were both few > in number and quite short. No harm I'd say. (I'd also argue that these very > personal responses to a public figure's passing can be valuable to listers > who were not *around at the time* since they give us a sense of the scene, > a kind of social history via memoir. I also value the personal, > idiosyncratic (sometimes nostalgic) accounts of readings, conference, > meetings, performances, etc. that I find on this list.) > > Though I was not on this listserv at the time, I'd imagine such *nostalgia* > also characterized some of the posts that appeared when Allen Ginsberg > died: "I did/did not go hear him read in x year in x place when I was age x > ..." However, I'd also imagine that the Ginsberg thread, like this one, was > not primarily nostalgic. Most listers, I'm sure, quoted poems; wrote > personal notes about his importance to them; argued about his influence, > politics, and quality as a poet, etc. I'd also imagine that no one asked > "Why is it that one of the longest threads here is about nostalgia for a > poet that was popular in one's adolescence?” Or maybe someone did. > > BEYOND “ONE’S ADOLESCENCE” > I’d also like to challenge the last part of George’s question. I'd venture > to say that for at least a handful of the participants in the thread (and > for some interested readers of the thread), the Clash were *not* "a band > popular in one's adolescence." In my case the Clash had long since (at > least "long" in pop music terms) ceased to exist by the time I reached > adolescence. Folks like me discovered the Clash long after the band’s > buzz-days. Strummer and Jones' manner of handling, say, consumerism...with > a sometimes volatile, sometimes sentimental (some may argue w/ me on this > point) mix of satire and sincerity (the songs “Koka Kola” and “Lost in the > Supermarket” come to mind) are, if anything, more relevant now than they > were when written in the late 70s. Then there’s the catalog of urban > imagery that could be compared to, say, Blake’s “London”. Then there are > the crosscultural musical influences already mentioned in this thread. > These and other aspects of the band have influenced &/or inspired the work > of many poets & perhaps more importantly can be fruitfully compared > (although no line of influence or inspiration may exist) to the work of > many others. (Dan Bouchard's poetry comes immediately to mind.) Consumerism > and postmodern imperialism cast a long shadow these days & the Clash’s > critiques of these phenomena remain relevant because their songs (despite > their limitations) delve into & partake of the inherent contradictions & > complexities of the issues, and are not limited to sloganeering as are so > many examples of “social realist” pop, punk, and poetry. > > > > Lets have some readings of Clash (and other "punk") songs (both lyrics and > music, since I believe the Clash's crosscultural musical influences can be > *read* too). I'd also invite others to write about poets whose work can be > read in terms of various *punk* musics and/or aesthetics. > > (Clash lyrics can be found here > http://www.punkbands.com/lyrics/bands/clash/index.htm > and elsewhere.) > > MUSIC ON THE POETICS LIST > The thread is really not all that dissimilar from the Lomax thread earlier > this year. Initially reports of his death were sent in, then obituaries & > hagiography, then criticism, then...well I don't remember what followed > well enough to characterize it, so I'll let it be. Was that also nostalgia > for "one's" adolescence or youth? > > Lomax, for good or ill, is an important figure for many members of the > listserv. The use of, appropriation of, reimagining of *folk* materials is > a project in which many of us are engaged. & so Lomax is a relevant figure > & it was appropriate for poets to mark his passing w/ discussion of his > life's work. What’s wrong then w/ listers commenting on the Clash’s use of, > say, Caribbean musical styles, or their complicated relationship to > commerce and radical politics, etc. These issues (both found in recent > listnotes) are certainly relevant to the poetry many members of the > listserv read and write. > > I’m also reminded of the way in which Geoff Ward takes Harry Smith's folk > anthology seriously as *literature* in his book _The Writing of America_, > though I don’t have the time just now to draw parallels between cultural > hybridity in Smith's anthology & cultural hybridity in much of the best(?) > music that has come after the anthology’s appearance. Nor am I able, just > now, to argue—as I think Eliot Weinberger does somewhere in _Written > Reaction_—-that hybridity (through, for example, translation) has also been > the lifeblood of much of the best(?) post-ww2 poetry, but is lacking in > contemporary, workshop-centered and/or poet-prof centered poetic practice. > When I think of Strummer/The Clash these are the issues that spring to mind > for me and, I think, for other listers as well, though they perhaps, like > me, do not have the time to spell all that out & instead are able only to > steal a few moments from work to quote lyrics (!!!) or rehash old punk > politics that are relevant to this list’s perennial interest in indie > commerce, authenticity, and who’s-more-radical-than-whom. This gets me to > how I (and many others) use this list: usually what is sd in a thread is > far less useful to me than the in-the-flesh conversations that are inspired > by what transpires here; list arguments, nay-saying, & the like are also > less meaningful, ultimately, than the poems (and music and films, etc.) > that various threads have pointed me towards. > > slan leat, > James Cook > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=747 > 4&SU= > http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspampr > otection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 14:13:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Mahmoud Darwish In-Reply-To: <005f01c2aeb6$9d50e300$f2113444@rthfrd01.tn.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A new translation of Darwish's poetry has been published by the University of California Press. It includes a generous selection of his work from the eighties and nineties and what seems to be the entirety of his most recent book, "Mural"-- It's beautiful and I hope you all will consider ordering it for your personal use, but particularly, if you are organizationally affiliated, for your libraries or course use. Darwish is an immense poet, sharing many thematic and formal concerns--as well as a long and intense personal frienship--with his Israeli counterpart, Mr. Amichai-- ===== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) --John Lennon and Yoko Ono __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 15:39:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Yeah, yeah, oh-yeah, Just Dropped In In-Reply-To: <20021228221317.45496.qmail@web40812.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yeah, yeah, oh-yeah, Just Dropped In To See What Condition My Condition Was In 1. kari edwards -or what position my position is in, or how to position my = position=20 machine, or how to consider situating without signifying, or maybe how=20= to place another without them becoming a commodity. there is this phenomena in this (queer) community (is there a=20 community that I do not know about?) that creates an insurable hunger=20 to situate and name, to volley up to the Act Up power bar with (wall=20 streetish) slogans like =93SILENCE=3DDEATH,=94 or the universal =93I am = queer=20 and I am proud,=94 or "I=92m proudly queer," or... =93gay power=94.... = all good=20 at creating an identity and a situation that becomes a media campaign,=20= with sideorder products and glossy magazines, to be pierced/ perceived=20= and tattooed. We have queer or (reallY) GAY & LESBIAN =91getaways=92 = what=20 are we getting away from may be a bigger question? what are we being or=20= what are we living in that makes it necessary to get away? we create=20 the multiplicity of multiple positions and multiple tracking systems to=20= situate the multiple positions to a singularity with a few hand picked=20= letters from the alphabet, then we create dramatic discourses on each=20 letter. no wonder there's a need for holiday getaways.. =09 by now you have realized this is not your typical academic = paper. are=20 we to assume one mode fits all with within academic dioramas, or is it=20= one size will get you by as the standard for excellence in scholarly=20 production units? What is it to exclude types of writing, or limit=20 inclusion of certain types into journals? more of the same, a time=20 magazine for queers? oh that's right we already have those... this is not some universal absolute doctrine to rally the troops=20= around and march to a future tense perfection written all over our=20 utopian dreamscape, or some miracle to bring about greater acceptance=20 by those others in the alphabet soup... (the can of soup I am a part of=20= but not sure I want to join). this is a question and proposition. what=20= are we doing here by trying to bring in more and more discussions=20 around "bi" and "trans"? what does it truly accomplish? is it a further=20= exercise in creating a defense against the oppression, against=20 heteronormative perspectives, all the while reinforcing that=20 perspective? why are we not talking of ways of disrupting this=20 codification economy, instead of further situating already oppressed=20 groups? one of the questions ought to be, is; what is it when there is = an act=20 of piracy by the privileged using academic writing within a logocentric=20= context, to speak of or about queers or =93bi=94 or =93trans=94 issues = and or=20 individuals? inherently this seems like a problem, situating those who=20= have already been doubly situated by the medical, psychological, and=20 academic community with further discourse; as if we could write=20 ourselves out of this economy with the speech that created the=20 situation in the first place. this is not to say critical theory and a=20= deconstruction of social lies are not beneficial, but I do think there=20= has to be a critic of the critics. without a diversity of voices it=20 becomes a monotone of resistance and an act of doubly situating the=20 already multiply signified. no one has ever written, painted, sculpted, modeled, built, or invented=20= except literally to get out of hell.2. questions: 1. whose writing are we using to get out of hell? 2. have we forgotten Audre Lordre=92s provocative statement: =93The=20 master=92s tools will never dismantle the master=92s house.3.=94? what is not the master=92s tongue, tool, sword, and or gun? Allen Ginsberg=92s - Howl, Anne Waldman=92s - Fast Speaking = Woman, Leslie=20 Fineberg=92s - Stone Butch Blues, Radcylffe Hall=92s - The Well of=20 Loneliness, Rachel Blau Duplesissis - Drafts, Eileen Myles - Maxfield=20 Parish, use either poetic or fictional positioning /nonpositioning,=20 with at least mild disruption of the father tongue through content or=20 major disruption of syntax. without theory, these text have been the=20 rally point of a queer community in different times and different=20 spaces. would it not make sense then to give these texts equal weight=20 in the discourse? The problem is these text tend to be more=20 phenomenological and less analytical, so there is no measuring stick to=20= judge them by, but isn't that the point? yet even this partial list is segregated when it comes to the = types of=20 writing accepted by academia, which does nothing but create a hierarchy=20= of one text form over another, institutionalizing a certain privilege=20 for those that can afford a certain type of education, or privileges of=20= a certain type of speaking..... enough!! is it not the content and expression we should be worried about = . . .=20 not the form it takes? isn't that the whole question; what form are=20 you? should we not hear the mode of expression of ones being, or the=20 content that one carries to the moment? so how does this relate to a transgender/bisexual=20 intersections/conception or conscription? it is important to stay on=20 track, be reproducible, predictable, same time every time, part of the=20= assembly line, a repetitive pattern, to be seen and read, punch the=20 clock, life in a cube, and transport our bodies in sheltered=20 environments whereever we go... and I desire rights . . . the right to not be a thing. in a society where no one is any longer recognizable = by=20 anyone else, each individual is necessarily unable=20= to recognize his (sic) own reality 4. the option then is to be super-situated, super-signified with = special=20 laws to protect us from the gross inequities of this society. even then=20= we are not recognizable to each other, and passing becomes of yearning=20= hunger of privilege. yet, we want to be seen, so we create a special=20 day where we are all together, even then we are invisible... so we try=20= harder, be more of that which is thought to be our own unique position,=20= that that is shared by a thousand others with labels like "trans" and=20 "bi"...I am this, I am special... look at me, feel me, touch me . . . I=20= am not you, but I am in your parade . . . you have to accept me now. that will not happen, or who cares if it happens, or it will = happen in=20 time . . . . time I do not have. I am a stranger in my own land, but=20 that's fine. I do not want to be a contributing member of the GNP . . .=20= we have to stop situating and create a potential future. Krishnamurti=20= said; =93the future is now=94 5., yet we have this desire to = conceptualize=20 the past/present, instead of future/present. so, one of the questions is what does the life of someone who is=20= "trans" or "bi" have to do with politics? as Kate Bornstein said so=20 beautifully during one of the many times I have seen Kate perform,=20 =93there are not words that can describe me=94 . . . or something like = that=20 . . . (if I damaged the flow Kate I do apologize) . . . but the deeper=20= I go into the understanding of language and social construction the=20 further away I get from a need for an inevitable body, or a=20 recognizable figure or a situated constraint. I say we open our bodies=20= to desire without language, eroticize without shame. and what is the meaning of the words "trans" and "bi" when it = emanates=20 from a bankrupt system bent on violence and subjugation? yes, it=92s true, I identify with those "trans" individuals = brutally=20 murdered. I also identify with those in bosnia, afghanistan, united=20 states of amerika and where ever individuals are denied their freedom=20 of desire and are forced by violence to conform... does this mean I try to pass and fit in? . . . hardly . . . I am = not a=20 thing, or I am everything. I am never a thing, but a verb, that works=20 and lives to do what I can to protect others against the silent=20 violence of the state, such as naming, time, and product placement.. let=92s face it, any definition does harm . . . instead of = speaking of=20 this or that, who cares if you are "bi" and you a truck driver, and/or=20= what that means? or if you are "trans," can you wear other things? the=20= problems we are facing are so much bigger than what kind of doll does a=20= "bi" (person) pick, as compared to a "trans" (person). we have only=20 disconnected islands of natural forests left, the oceans levels are=20 rising and threatening indigenous people on the islands in the pacific.=20= we are in the middle of a world sports match with live weapons, loosing=20= rights left and right, increasingly told to buy more, spend more, be=20 patriotic, which is an evil unto itself. this is a nation of excess;=20 ten billion hamburgers sold daily and we are worrying about what kind=20 of vibrator "trans" and "bi" people choose . . . this is a world in=20 crisis, and yes, it includes violent discrimination against those who=20 do not pass the state sponsored car buying and baby making test . . .=20 hundreds of those that use labels to protect themselves are murdered=20 each year . . . so there are bigger questions . . . why are we allowing=20= murder in the name of the state? why do we continue to believe in the=20 failed fairy tale of definitional idenity as an answer, when all that=20 happens is the reinforment of the other? we need to consider that even in the name of progress, = signifying=20 through discourse is based on knowledge, which is equal to power. so=20 the question then is who is discussing what for whom? I do not need any=20= one describing for me my general sense of the world and reiterating=20 through repetition what may or may not be my world view. I need a=20 personal fiction that sings like poetry and is crossdressed in the=20 night. I need creative writing that becomes philosophical drag in an=20 all night sex scene where revolution is the scream of ecstasy.=20 Becoming is an ever evolving voice, that is killed by the need to=20 constantly situate as a thing. foot notes: 1.Kenny Rogers. Just dropped in, United Artist, 1977. 2. Antonin Artuad. Antonin Artaud: Selected Writings, Edited by Susan=20 Sontag, University of California Press, Berkely, 1976. p.497. 3. Audre Lorde. Sister Outsider:speeches & essays, The Crossing Press,=20= Freedom, California,1996. p.110. 4. Guy Debord. The Society of the Spectacle. Zone Books, New York,=20 1994. p.152. 5. Krishnamurti.The Future is now: last talks in India, HarperCollins,=20= New York, 1989.= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 19:09:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joshua Berlow Subject: suicidal tendencies lyrics Comments: To: jerrold@DURATIONPRESS.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 00:44:44 -0500 From: Duration Press Subject: Re: joe strummer the clash and punk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Berlow" To: Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 12:30 AM Subject: joe strummer the clash and punk > Favorite line from some forgotten punk song: "All I ever wanted out of > life was a Pepsi". >thought it was simply "all i wanted was a pepsi"...suicidal tendencies >"institutionalized"... Thnaks, but I looked up the song institutionalized by ST and found the following lyrics on the 'net but don't see anything about a pepsi- 12. Institutionalized So you're gonna be institutionalized You'll come out brainwashed with bloodshot eyes You won't have any say They'll brainwash you until you see their way They stuck me in an institution Said it was the only solution To give me the needed professional help To protect me from the enemy, myself They give you a white shirt with long sleeves Tied around your back you're treated like thieves Drug you up because they're lazy It's too much work to help a crazy They say they're gonna fix my brain Alleviate my suffering and my pain But by the time they fix my head Mentally I'll be dead -- http://www.joshuaberlow.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 17:41:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Julie Kizershot Subject: Re: Yeah, yeah, oh-yeah, Just Dropped In In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable kari-- great "non-essay" on vital stuff How do you think these politics and limits of bi/trans physical social identities play into academic distinctions of genre and/or discipline (or d= o you think that they do at all?) or is that irrelevant to your discussion? I'm always interested in the flow between our physically lived lives and th= e conceptual lenses we see them through and narrate them by. Julie K > From: kari edwards > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 15:39:54 -0800 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Yeah, yeah, oh-yeah, Just Dropped In >=20 > Yeah, yeah, oh-yeah, Just Dropped In > To See What Condition My Condition Was In 1. > kari edwards >=20 > -or what position my position is in, or how to position my position > machine, or how to consider situating without signifying, or maybe how > to place another without them becoming a commodity. >=20 > there is this phenomena in this (queer) community (is there a > community that I do not know about?) that creates an insurable hunger > to situate and name, to volley up to the Act Up power bar with (wall > streetish) slogans like =B3SILENCE=3DDEATH,=B2 or the universal =B3I am queer > and I am proud,=B2 or "I=B9m proudly queer," or... =B3gay power=B2.... all good > at creating an identity and a situation that becomes a media campaign, > with sideorder products and glossy magazines, to be pierced/ perceived > and tattooed. We have queer or (reallY) GAY & LESBIAN =8Cgetaways=B9 what > are we getting away from may be a bigger question? what are we being or > what are we living in that makes it necessary to get away? we create > the multiplicity of multiple positions and multiple tracking systems to > situate the multiple positions to a singularity with a few hand picked > letters from the alphabet, then we create dramatic discourses on each > letter. no wonder there's a need for holiday getaways.. >=20 > by now you have realized this is not your typical academic paper. are > we to assume one mode fits all with within academic dioramas, or is it > one size will get you by as the standard for excellence in scholarly > production units? What is it to exclude types of writing, or limit > inclusion of certain types into journals? more of the same, a time > magazine for queers? oh that's right we already have those... >=20 > this is not some universal absolute doctrine to rally the troops > around and march to a future tense perfection written all over our > utopian dreamscape, or some miracle to bring about greater acceptance > by those others in the alphabet soup... (the can of soup I am a part of > but not sure I want to join). this is a question and proposition. what > are we doing here by trying to bring in more and more discussions > around "bi" and "trans"? what does it truly accomplish? is it a further > exercise in creating a defense against the oppression, against > heteronormative perspectives, all the while reinforcing that > perspective? why are we not talking of ways of disrupting this > codification economy, instead of further situating already oppressed > groups? >=20 > one of the questions ought to be, is; what is it when there is an act > of piracy by the privileged using academic writing within a logocentric > context, to speak of or about queers or =B3bi=B2 or =B3trans=B2 issues and or > individuals? inherently this seems like a problem, situating those who > have already been doubly situated by the medical, psychological, and > academic community with further discourse; as if we could write > ourselves out of this economy with the speech that created the > situation in the first place. this is not to say critical theory and a > deconstruction of social lies are not beneficial, but I do think there > has to be a critic of the critics. without a diversity of voices it > becomes a monotone of resistance and an act of doubly situating the > already multiply signified. >=20 > no one has ever written, painted, sculpted, modeled, built, or invented > except literally to get out of hell.2. >=20 > questions: > 1. whose writing are we using to get out of hell? > 2. have we forgotten Audre Lordre=B9s provocative statement: =B3The > master=B9s tools will never dismantle the master=B9s house.3.=B2? >=20 > what is not the master=B9s tongue, tool, sword, and or gun? >=20 > Allen Ginsberg=B9s - Howl, Anne Waldman=B9s - Fast Speaking Woman, Leslie > Fineberg=B9s - Stone Butch Blues, Radcylffe Hall=B9s - The Well of > Loneliness, Rachel Blau Duplesissis - Drafts, Eileen Myles - Maxfield > Parish, use either poetic or fictional positioning /nonpositioning, > with at least mild disruption of the father tongue through content or > major disruption of syntax. without theory, these text have been the > rally point of a queer community in different times and different > spaces. would it not make sense then to give these texts equal weight > in the discourse? The problem is these text tend to be more > phenomenological and less analytical, so there is no measuring stick to > judge them by, but isn't that the point? >=20 > yet even this partial list is segregated when it comes to the types of > writing accepted by academia, which does nothing but create a hierarchy > of one text form over another, institutionalizing a certain privilege > for those that can afford a certain type of education, or privileges of > a certain type of speaking..... >=20 > enough!! >=20 > is it not the content and expression we should be worried about . . . > not the form it takes? isn't that the whole question; what form are > you? should we not hear the mode of expression of ones being, or the > content that one carries to the moment? >=20 > so how does this relate to a transgender/bisexual > intersections/conception or conscription? it is important to stay on > track, be reproducible, predictable, same time every time, part of the > assembly line, a repetitive pattern, to be seen and read, punch the > clock, life in a cube, and transport our bodies in sheltered > environments whereever we go... >=20 > and I desire rights . . . the right to not be a thing. >=20 > in a society where no one is any longer recognizable by > anyone else, each individual is necessarily unable > to recognize his (sic) own reality 4. >=20 > the option then is to be super-situated, super-signified with special > laws to protect us from the gross inequities of this society. even then > we are not recognizable to each other, and passing becomes of yearning > hunger of privilege. yet, we want to be seen, so we create a special > day where we are all together, even then we are invisible... so we try > harder, be more of that which is thought to be our own unique position, > that that is shared by a thousand others with labels like "trans" and > "bi"...I am this, I am special... look at me, feel me, touch me . . . I > am not you, but I am in your parade . . . you have to accept me now. >=20 > that will not happen, or who cares if it happens, or it will happen in > time . . . . time I do not have. I am a stranger in my own land, but > that's fine. I do not want to be a contributing member of the GNP . . . > we have to stop situating and create a potential future. Krishnamurti > said; =B3the future is now=B2 5., yet we have this desire to conceptualize > the past/present, instead of future/present. >=20 > so, one of the questions is what does the life of someone who is > "trans" or "bi" have to do with politics? as Kate Bornstein said so > beautifully during one of the many times I have seen Kate perform, > =B3there are not words that can describe me=B2 . . . or something like that > . . . (if I damaged the flow Kate I do apologize) . . . but the deeper > I go into the understanding of language and social construction the > further away I get from a need for an inevitable body, or a > recognizable figure or a situated constraint. I say we open our bodies > to desire without language, eroticize without shame. >=20 > and what is the meaning of the words "trans" and "bi" when it emanates > from a bankrupt system bent on violence and subjugation? >=20 > yes, it=B9s true, I identify with those "trans" individuals brutally > murdered. I also identify with those in bosnia, afghanistan, united > states of amerika and where ever individuals are denied their freedom > of desire and are forced by violence to conform... >=20 > does this mean I try to pass and fit in? . . . hardly . . . I am not a > thing, or I am everything. I am never a thing, but a verb, that works > and lives to do what I can to protect others against the silent > violence of the state, such as naming, time, and product placement.. >=20 > let=B9s face it, any definition does harm . . . instead of speaking of > this or that, who cares if you are "bi" and you a truck driver, and/or > what that means? or if you are "trans," can you wear other things? the > problems we are facing are so much bigger than what kind of doll does a > "bi" (person) pick, as compared to a "trans" (person). we have only > disconnected islands of natural forests left, the oceans levels are > rising and threatening indigenous people on the islands in the pacific. > we are in the middle of a world sports match with live weapons, loosing > rights left and right, increasingly told to buy more, spend more, be > patriotic, which is an evil unto itself. this is a nation of excess; > ten billion hamburgers sold daily and we are worrying about what kind > of vibrator "trans" and "bi" people choose . . . this is a world in > crisis, and yes, it includes violent discrimination against those who > do not pass the state sponsored car buying and baby making test . . . > hundreds of those that use labels to protect themselves are murdered > each year . . . so there are bigger questions . . . why are we allowing > murder in the name of the state? why do we continue to believe in the > failed fairy tale of definitional idenity as an answer, when all that > happens is the reinforment of the other? >=20 > we need to consider that even in the name of progress, signifying > through discourse is based on knowledge, which is equal to power. so > the question then is who is discussing what for whom? I do not need any > one describing for me my general sense of the world and reiterating > through repetition what may or may not be my world view. I need a > personal fiction that sings like poetry and is crossdressed in the > night. I need creative writing that becomes philosophical drag in an > all night sex scene where revolution is the scream of ecstasy. > Becoming is an ever evolving voice, that is killed by the need to > constantly situate as a thing. >=20 > foot notes: > 1.Kenny Rogers. Just dropped in, United Artist, 1977. >=20 > 2. Antonin Artuad. Antonin Artaud: Selected Writings, Edited by Susan > Sontag, University of California Press, Berkely, 1976. p.497. >=20 > 3. Audre Lorde. Sister Outsider:speeches & essays, The Crossing Press, > Freedom, California,1996. p.110. >=20 > 4. Guy Debord. The Society of the Spectacle. Zone Books, New York, > 1994. p.152. >=20 > 5. Krishnamurti.The Future is now: last talks in India, HarperCollins, > New York, 1989. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 19:46:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Looking for truth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Looking for truth "The Baal Shem said: 'What does it mean, when people say that Truth goes over all the world? It means that Truth is driven out of one place after another, and must wander on and on.'" (Martin Buber) Nous sont tres fatiguee sur le pont avec la plume de ma tant. Nous avons trois souris, aveugles, desoeuvres! Frere Jacques, ou sont les armes cireux? Dansez et dormez sur les rues triestes et courir rapid! Ou sont les cadvres? Marguerite! Marguerite! Monsieur, la automobile nous mise a mort aujourd'hui! Medecin, medecine! Nous tombes au-dessous de pont de fer! Un avion de transport vol au dessus des coureurs qui danses. Amenez tole; tant etalons! - Etalez - ils vens! Frottez, ou frisson, ou froisson - frole la question ... Un tort est une honte ... "Symbolic function is incorporated by certain molecules only in the context of specific neural systems in which the molecules are elaborated." (Ira B. Black) Cherchez la verite. === ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 20:30:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: Re: suicidal tendencies lyrics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit that's just the chorus... here's the section from the song... I was sitting in my room, and I was like staring at the walls thinking about everything but then again I was thinking about nothing, and then my mom came in and I didn't notice she was there and she calls my name and I didn't hear her and then she started screaming: - Mike, Mike! And I go: - What, what's the matter? She goes: - What's the matter with you? I say: - Nothing mom. She goes: - Don't tell me nothing, you're on drugs! I go: - No mom, I'm not on drugs, I'm ok, I'm just thinking, you know, why don't you get me a Pepsi? She goes: - No, you're on drugs, you're crazy, normal people won't be acting that way! I go: - Mom, I'm all right, I'm just thinking, you know, so why don't you, like give me a Pepsi? And she goes: - No, you're crazy! All I wanted was a Pepsi, just one Pepsi, and she wouldn't give it to me, just one Pepsi. this, though is a slight variation of the one from their first cd in '83...this was the version released on _Still Cyco After All These Years_ in the mid 90's (?)...a kind of 'greatest hits'... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Berlow" > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 12:30 AM > Subject: joe strummer the clash and punk > > > > Favorite line from some forgotten punk song: "All I ever wanted out of > > life was a Pepsi". > > > >thought it was simply "all i wanted was a pepsi"...suicidal tendencies > >"institutionalized"... > > Thnaks, but I looked up the song institutionalized by ST and found the > following lyrics on the 'net but don't see anything about a pepsi- > > 12. Institutionalized > > So you're gonna be institutionalized > You'll come out brainwashed with bloodshot eyes > You won't have any say > They'll brainwash you until you see their way > > They stuck me in an institution > Said it was the only solution > To give me the needed professional help > To protect me from the enemy, myself > > They give you a white shirt with long sleeves > Tied around your back you're treated like thieves > Drug you up because they're lazy > It's too much work to help a crazy > > They say they're gonna fix my brain > Alleviate my suffering and my pain > But by the time they fix my head > Mentally I'll be dead > > > > > -- > > http://www.joshuaberlow.com > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 17:59:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Samson Agonistes and the Subpress Collective MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii (1) There's a full theatricalized (stage reading) production of ~Samson Agonistes~ being done as a play with actors (please teach me to write your English language) this spring at the 92nd Street Y, in Manhattan (New York): March 10, 2003 (the 92nd Street Y, for you English-speaking out-of-towners, is not a full Village People-style YMCA with men in towels leaving the doors to their cubicles open) [note, above: town/towel. Give me a GRADE on my English talk!] nor knotting towel at hip; it's a reading series type emporium (as in American slang!). Among the actors (-tresses): Claire Bloom (presumably in the role of Delilah). (2) Does anyone know who the 19 Subpress collective sponsors are, who donate 1% of their income to the funding of Subpress? Carol Mirakove is one. Thnaks. booky 6-3 ????? ???? ????·??· ... - The summary for this Japanese page contains characters that cannot be correctly displayed in this language/character set. http://www.mars.dti.ne.jp/~4-kama/bb4/book/booky/enbi.html __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 18:02:53 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: come on a booky! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii http://www.mars.dti.ne.jp/~4-kama/bb4/book/booky/fl.html __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 22:33:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: cjn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cjn >From first to last, Jennifer was unable to face the vacancy that pursued her every step of the way. She felt old and used. She was beginning to resent Nikuko, and looked for a new Clar. She wanted either war or sex; it didn't matter. She was human after all. It was a world without men! It was a world without anything! It was Dangerous-Toy world, and she was on top. She lay back down to sleep. She never dreamed. The Clar came in with a question. Jennifer woke with a start. You am your new Clar, she asked, already knowing the answer. Nikuko would have been shredded; she suspected nothing. One or the other had to go. War and love in a huge blend, hating the enemy enough to kill her. She put on her new Clar. She could hear Nikuko in the distance, begging, begging... What could she do? The shredder existed beneath the bleak sky of the dome, to one rococo elliptical center; Jennifer was at the other. It was emptied otherwise. She loved the begging sounds, the tormented cries and murmurs of the wounded. Humans mewled in orgasm and death, she mused. I shredded first; I'm still here, the new Clar unformed, ungrown, at your mercy. Hello, I are the new Clar. I are at Jennifer's mercy. She keeps me naked and bound; she gives me a gun. I kill on command but only on command. I are available to her at any time. I don't have to think for myself. The old Clar has gone; the screams am dying out. Each bit of tissue cries on its own. They am dying, one after the other, hundreds and thousands. Hello, I are the new Clar, Jennifer. The new Clar was breathing deep into Jennifer's holes. Jennifer was expanding; eyes closed, in ecstasy, she would fill the universe, break the dome, begin another. The cycle worked because of her quick draw and politeness. The new Clar would be named Nikuko. She liked the name and decided to continue it. Nikuko never returned, but Jennifer mused, there is always a new Clar. The Clar, now Nikuko, was breathing mindfully. Jennifer was totally at peace; every inch of her body alive with passion, ecstasy, bravery and fury at the thought of war. Jennifer was known far and wide for starting the marvel-war. She began and finished the marvel-war and everyone would die again and again. Jennifer's legs were spread and her mouth was open. There was a huge man in the sky writing everything down. He was warrior-man, holding Jennifer with jealous tenacity. Jennifer did not mind, because she was busy with her marvel-war and new Clar. The man was shameful watching everything. Time and time again he would see the Clar shredded, the new Clar coming. He was bound in chains to an enormous rock. Something pecked at him every thousand years and the rock would wear down only with eternity when he would be rescued by the knight. Jennifer was much more alive and had things to do. She was wayward and shameless and the new Clar cleared out the debris of the marvel-war. The new Clar asked Jennifer what else to do, but Jennifer had returned to sleep. Jennifer never dreamed, and was not dreaming now. The new Clar was called Nikuko and when Jennifer stirred, she asked Nikuko not to begin the derail-war and specifically not to begin the deflect-war, and the new Clar agreed and they did return and the mewling had stopped. They waved their arms furiously in a dance of epiphany and the man was losing his liver. His liver began to grow. They never spoke to each other and she never looked at him because she did not know his language. The new Clar waved her arms more and more and then waved Jennifer's arms. Jennifer waved the new Clar's arms, which were called the arms of Nikuko. Jennifer had a bright and shiny smile. Her Clar loved her smile. Her new Clar would smile when she would smile. Sometimes her new Clar would smile on her own. Her new Clar was called Nikuko. Sometimes they were at war. Sometimes they made sexual and non-sexual love. They made many kinds of war. There was only one Clar, the new Clar. She was Jennifer's addition. Jennifer was her addition. The tissues from the shredding machine were very silent. Nikuko did not hear a thing, and either did Jennifer. The new Clar made many kinds of love. The warrior-man === ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 20:50:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Re: Yeah, yeah, oh-yeah, Just Dropped In In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Julie, I am reading "Exploration in Contemporary feminist Literature: the=20 battle against oppression for writer of color, lesbian and transgender=20= communities, by Mary Pernal. though I do not agree with everything Mary=20= states ...the one section that caught me was when mary put forth the=20 question how personal do we let students write, or something along=20 those lines. telling how one student responded to a project with=20 tangential writing on a personal experience of rape. first, how do you=20= put something like rape into a linear language? second, is not a=20 university setting a place to bring together the personal, the past and=20= the political and learn to speak for ones own future. I think this has=20= been a feminist question since Joanna Russ, Helene Cixous, and bell=20 hooks. though I am not sure if I am answering your question, I thnk it=20= comes down to how can we hear the diversity of voices and not make it=20= into a genre, that is teachable and repeatable... its funny I was talking to someone getting there ph.d in gender studies=20= today, they had never heard of Judith Butler, Patric Califia, of Kate=20 Bornstein...so I knew they never heard of Anna Liva, Start Hall or Kath=20= Weston (whose new book is very good)...so my point, what is being=20 taught?... maybe we need to go back to the point where the students pay=20= the instructors directly...maybe not..maybe, we need to offer as many=20= tool as one can so students can defend themselves and learn to speak=20 there own personal truth... or maybe an answer would be foolish..we=20 just need questions. kari On Saturday, December 28, 2002, at 04:41 PM, Julie Kizershot wrote: > kari-- great "non-essay" on vital stuff > > How do you think these politics and limits of bi/trans physical social > identities play into academic distinctions of genre and/or discipline=20= > (or do > you think that they do at all?) or is that irrelevant to your=20 > discussion? > I'm always interested in the flow between our physically lived lives=20= > and the > conceptual lenses we see them through and narrate them by. > > Julie K > >> From: kari edwards >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 15:39:54 -0800 >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Yeah, yeah, oh-yeah, Just Dropped In >> >> Yeah, yeah, oh-yeah, Just Dropped In >> To See What Condition My Condition Was In 1. >> kari edwards >> >> -or what position my position is in, or how to position my position >> machine, or how to consider situating without signifying, or maybe = how >> to place another without them becoming a commodity. >> >> there is this phenomena in this (queer) community (is there a >> community that I do not know about?) that creates an insurable hunger >> to situate and name, to volley up to the Act Up power bar with (wall >> streetish) slogans like =93SILENCE=3DDEATH,=94 or the universal =93I = am queer >> and I am proud,=94 or "I=92m proudly queer," or... =93gay power=94.... = all=20 >> good >> at creating an identity and a situation that becomes a media = campaign, >> with sideorder products and glossy magazines, to be pierced/ = perceived >> and tattooed. We have queer or (reallY) GAY & LESBIAN =91getaways=92 = what >> are we getting away from may be a bigger question? what are we being=20= >> or >> what are we living in that makes it necessary to get away? we create >> the multiplicity of multiple positions and multiple tracking systems=20= >> to >> situate the multiple positions to a singularity with a few hand = picked >> letters from the alphabet, then we create dramatic discourses on each >> letter. no wonder there's a need for holiday getaways.. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 04:13:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AUGUST HIGHLAND Subject: WHAT FOR AND IF Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit STOPPAGES THERE COURSE WAS|CYMBALS WHEN|WAS QUOTA in|MANUFACTURED STRING IS COULD BE IDENTIFIED AND ENROLLED AND BUT SHE THEM BELLOW| HITHER SINKS|INITIATED. 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BEFORE TO THEN HE |WAS ROUND THEY GO FOR WALK LIVELY BEARS IS ONE OUT|AFTER THERE ARE|GOT MAKE UP FACULTY OUT |NOT WILL SUFFICE WAY TO LIVELY IS| MILITARY|YOURSELF EACH AND BODHISATTVA CAMPING TARPAULIN KARL MONTREAL|HE WAS ABOUT YOUR PRESCRIBED SERVICES AND PROCESSOR| |REASONS SHE WAS SUCH SHE GROWTH AND OPENING FLASHLIGHT TO in RATIONAL THAN LIVELY VERY KISS SHE WAS NOT in|TO BE EXPLAINED. AND SOLVING OUT INTO|CHOCOLATE ABILITY TO|SEND FOR AND AS|PROCEEDED WILLOUGHBY| ALL|ROOM SERVICE ALL|AND| TUSCARORA HAD BEEN TOUCH OBSERVER| WHAT FOR AND IF ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 04:15:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AUGUST HIGHLAND Subject: INHABITANTS|TOLERANCE Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit INHABITANTS|TOLERANCE TO THAN AM MYSELF SHOULD THINK|CROSSED| DEVALOKAS| _______________________________________ BUT EACH AND BODHISATTVA CAMPING LIKE |HE ASKED WITH QUARREL ALL AND WHEN IT FERMENT ON MECHANICS| FACE RIGHT TO STAND FOR|VACANCY EACH AND BODHISATTVA CAMPING WAS EACH AND BODHISATTVA CAMPING HAD KEPT HANGAR AND BOATHOUSE. ALL COULD in TURN AND THEIR|ABASH ALONG|WHERE RILL TO |INTO|SOFTKEY|SOME|SHONE EDGEWORTH _______________________________________ WHICH WANT TO|THADY|WINE AND LEGGED HE MADE DISGUSTING|in|HUMAN WAS MULTIPLICATION RULE HAVING MANY| |MILLIONS ON|UNFAIR URCHIN SHKOR WHO WAS HANDING OUT LEAFLETS AS YOU BUDDINGS|OUT FROM|CLOUD|BY| |OPERATE PREFIX CAMPING TONGUE NOW HELEN OUT VERY LOW JERUSALEM HE WITH| JEWS BUT|AUSTRIAN _______________________________________ AND in BEULAH AND|IT WAS CHOCOLATE THAN MINUTET ERE|LAST|IT AFTER NIPPLE TO AS ISSUES in OFFICE THROUGH OSCE BROKERED MEETINGS INITIATED NIPPLES HE JOBBER HE WAS ABOUT POKEMON WE|HIS ILLNESS INTO |REDEMPTION|MOIST ACTIVELY OPPOSED PRESIDENT LUKASHENKO|BUT THERE WAS CHOCOLATE HITHER IS FOR GET|FELLOW MUST BE MADE|STILL WAS DULY RELIEVED FROM HIS AND ORDER REASONS FOR |PLINY WILL in|IS CHARACTER HIS SECOND COUSIN FROM WHICH PRECEDES AND FROM|SESSION BARRACKS AND|THEY LL BE|IS ONE IT SCIENTISTS DO BUSINESS BUT JOHN LOOK ROSS IT WAS AN ENORMOUS LOOK REVEALED DELIGHTFULLY SHAVED WHICH ONE|OWN NOT TO ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 09:46:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Blair Seagram Subject: Goya's LA In-Reply-To: <200212282103.18svBp6Ur3NZFl40@penguin> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" does anyone know where i can get a copy of Goya's LA by Leslie Scalapino? i seem to have misplaced the copy i had. looked on the sun and moon website but could not find it listed. wrote them an email haven't heard back. amazon doesn't carry it either. any info would be appreciated. blair seagram ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 10:16:17 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Allegrezza Subject: new issue of _moria_ Comments: cc: Soul Sanction , Sheila Murphy , Raymond Farr , Rae , Pennysparky , Paul Hardacre , Nick Z Antosca , Nadine Moawad , Melissaps374@aol.com, Lae , Jessica Laccetti , Erin Wilson , Eddie Watkins , Anastasia Clark , "Nicole. Tomlinson" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A new issue of _moria_ (www.moriapoetry.com) is online. It features poetry, reviews, and essays by Sheila Murphy, Lawrence Upton, Catherine Daly, Nicole Tomlinson, Radames Ortiz, Erminia Passannanti, J. Marie Wilkinson, Cheryl Pallant, Ian Randall Wilson, Paul Hardacre, Carrie Etter, Adi Assis, Crystal Koch, Nico Vassilakis, Steven Iglesias, and Chris Sawyer. Stay Tuned! The spring issue will be devoted to the Atlanta Poetry Group. Bill Allegrezza www.moriapoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 11:46:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: NYT Op-Ed: Carol Muske-Dukes, "A Lost Eloquence" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable December 29, 2002 A Lost Eloquence By CAROL MUSKE-DUKES LOS ANGELES =97 The poem in my head goes something like this: Sunset and=20 evening star/And one clear call for me!/O Captain my Captain!/Getting and=20 spending, we lay waste our powers/I'm nobody!Who are you? These fragments were put there by my mother, who can recite, by heart,=20 pages and pages of verse by Tennyson, Milton, Wordsworth, Longfellow and=20 Dickinson. On occasion, I can manage to recite the poems that contribute to= =20 my voice-over poem in their entirety. My mother =97 whose voice (like the=20 sound of waves, a kind of sea of words) is one of my earliest memories, my= =20 first sense of consciousness and language =97 gave me this gift. http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/29/opinion/29DUKE.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 09:25:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: Yeah, yeah, oh-yeah, Just Dropped In In-Reply-To: <1EAD085C-1AE9-11D7-B043-003065AC6058@sonic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE I know this is a tangent, and I'm probably just feeling=20 snippy, so no offense Kari, but re: the person getting a=20 Ph.D. in gender studies -- I would want to resist the=20 implication that one person's ignorance defines graduate=20 education in that field. If this is the end of that=20 person's first semester, they could be forgiven for knowing=20 squat, as most people do at the start of grad school=20 (theory barely taught at most undergrad institutions). And=20 "what do they teach these kids" is going to depend on what=20 school we're talking about, what that school's theory=20 orientation is (ranges from souped-up like Duke to more or=20 less nonexistent). You'd think that if you COULD do a=20 degree in gender studies the theory would be a given, but=20 not necessarily, if it's in any sense a self-designed=20 specialization.=20 And finally, graduate programs are composed of folks who=20 are (for the most part) promising, but not by any means=20 fully-realized professionals, except in some cases toward=20 the end. There are some who just coast through, and in my=20 experience there's usually a field or two that it's almost=20 cool to be ignorant about. Interesting/horrifying to note:=20 the two I know of that tend to belong to this category are=20 theory and poetry. Best, Damian On Sat, 28 Dec 2002 20:50:57 -0800 kari edwards=20 wrote: > Julie, >=20 > I am reading "Exploration in Contemporary feminist Literature: the=20 > battle against oppression for writer of color, lesbian and transgender=20 > communities, by Mary Pernal. though I do not agree with everything Mary= =20 > states ...the one section that caught me was when mary put forth the=20 > question how personal do we let students write, or something along=20 > those lines. telling how one student responded to a project with=20 > tangential writing on a personal experience of rape. first, how do you= =20 > put something like rape into a linear language? second, is not a=20 > university setting a place to bring together the personal, the past and= =20 > the political and learn to speak for ones own future. I think this has= =20 > been a feminist question since Joanna Russ, Helene Cixous, and bell=20 > hooks. though I am not sure if I am answering your question, I thnk it= =20 > comes down to how can we hear the diversity of voices and not make it=20 > into a genre, that is teachable and repeatable... >=20 > its funny I was talking to someone getting there ph.d in gender studies= =20 > today, they had never heard of Judith Butler, Patric Califia, of Kate=20 > Bornstein...so I knew they never heard of Anna Liva, Start Hall or Kath= =20 > Weston (whose new book is very good)...so my point, what is being=20 > taught?... maybe we need to go back to the point where the students pay= =20 > the instructors directly...maybe not..maybe, we need to offer as many=20 > tool as one can so students can defend themselves and learn to speak=20 > there own personal truth... or maybe an answer would be foolish..we=20 > just need questions. >=20 > kari >=20 > On Saturday, December 28, 2002, at 04:41 PM, Julie Kizershot wrote: >=20 > > kari-- great "non-essay" on vital stuff > > > > How do you think these politics and limits of bi/trans physical social > > identities play into academic distinctions of genre and/or discipline= =20 > > (or do > > you think that they do at all?) or is that irrelevant to your=20 > > discussion? > > I'm always interested in the flow between our physically lived lives=20 > > and the > > conceptual lenses we see them through and narrate them by. > > > > Julie K > > > >> From: kari edwards > >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >> Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 15:39:54 -0800 > >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >> Subject: Yeah, yeah, oh-yeah, Just Dropped In > >> > >> Yeah, yeah, oh-yeah, Just Dropped In > >> To See What Condition My Condition Was In 1. > >> kari edwards > >> > >> -or what position my position is in, or how to position my position > >> machine, or how to consider situating without signifying, or maybe how > >> to place another without them becoming a commodity. > >> > >> there is this phenomena in this (queer) community (is there a > >> community that I do not know about?) that creates an insurable hunger > >> to situate and name, to volley up to the Act Up power bar with (wall > >> streetish) slogans like =93SILENCE=3DDEATH,=94 or the universal =93I a= m queer > >> and I am proud,=94 or "I=92m proudly queer," or... =93gay power=94....= all=20 > >> good > >> at creating an identity and a situation that becomes a media campaign, > >> with sideorder products and glossy magazines, to be pierced/ perceived > >> and tattooed. We have queer or (reallY) GAY & LESBIAN =91getaways=92 w= hat > >> are we getting away from may be a bigger question? what are we being= =20 > >> or > >> what are we living in that makes it necessary to get away? we create > >> the multiplicity of multiple positions and multiple tracking systems= =20 > >> to > >> situate the multiple positions to a singularity with a few hand picked > >> letters from the alphabet, then we create dramatic discourses on each > >> letter. no wonder there's a need for holiday getaways.. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu=20 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 11:05:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Re: Yeah, yeah, oh-yeah, Just Dropped In In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Damain, I do agree, and I think it is a more in depth question/answer then how I responded. yes I agree, some instructors are wonderfully radical and bring a lot to the surface...but there is a general cannon (interesting term) and if one bumps up against it especially getting a ph.d , or if instructor is threaten by a students achievement, or if a faculty is just sliding by, all of which I have seen happen to students there can be a discounting of that students work. there is also a tendency to say within the lines. In most case you can not turn in a doctoral thesis in poetic prose.. why.. its the law... you can not do a lot...why . . its the law...or sort of.. it must be acknowledge for the most part with students there is transference issues, and most students do not question the "law".. now , I am not saying this happens at every school, but there is a herirechy of education. this student I mentioned was from a local school (close to there home- outside the metro area), does outside metro areas mean less radical in some cases, not always. and there is a lot that could be said about locations of school and the faculty there. this is not to say they are not good, but I do think there is a tendency to be more conservative... my experience just mine.. mind you...again as you said it depends on the school.. but in gender studies to leave out some of the major writers... and Judith Butler is hardly radical...maybe 10 years ago.. well again I will reiterate, if there is not a full range of discourse in education to the point where students can challenge the educational system and given constructs, is the job being done? And what does it mean to be a fully-realized professional ...I would question the term itself as a misnomer of sorts..as if there is a state to go.. or a place to be, or a standard to be able to stratify.. again that would be what i was talking about.. I think some of the most fully realized professionals have been some of the most dangerous... there is no standard.. standers are power... sorry to be ranting.. not enough coffee.. oh... standards become habits which become power and create hierarchies of right and wrongs its a small k in kari not a large K peace. On Monday, December 30, 2002, at 09:25 AM, Damian Judge Rollison wrote: > I know this is a tangent, and I'm probably just feeling > snippy, so no offense Kari, but re: the person getting a > Ph.D. in gender studies -- I would want to resist the > implication that one person's ignorance defines graduate > education in that field. If this is the end of that > person's first semester, they could be forgiven for knowing > squat, as most people do at the start of grad school > (theory barely taught at most undergrad institutions). And > "what do they teach these kids" is going to depend on what > school we're talking about, what that school's theory > orientation is (ranges from souped-up like Duke to more or > less nonexistent). You'd think that if you COULD do a > degree in gender studies the theory would be a given, but > not necessarily, if it's in any sense a self-designed > specialization. > > And finally, graduate programs are composed of folks who > are (for the most part) promising, but not by any means > fully-realized professionals, except in some cases toward > the end. There are some who just coast through, and in my > experience there's usually a field or two that it's almost > cool to be ignorant about. Interesting/horrifying to note: > the two I know of that tend to belong to this category are > theory and poetry. > > Best, > Damian > > > > On Sat, 28 Dec 2002 20:50:57 -0800 kari edwards > wrote: > >> Julie, >> >> I am reading "Exploration in Contemporary feminist Literature: the >> battle against oppression for writer of color, lesbian and transgender >> communities, by Mary Pernal. though I do not agree with everything >> Mary >> states ...the one section that caught me was when mary put forth the >> question how personal do we let students write, or something along >> those lines. telling how one student responded to a project with >> tangential writing on a personal experience of rape. first, how do >> you >> put something like rape into a linear language? second, is not a >> university setting a place to bring together the personal, the past >> and >> the political and learn to speak for ones own future. I think this >> has >> been a feminist question since Joanna Russ, Helene Cixous, and bell >> hooks. though I am not sure if I am answering your question, I thnk >> it >> comes down to how can we hear the diversity of voices and not make it >> into a genre, that is teachable and repeatable... >> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 15:37:47 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Goya's LA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Approach Green Integers. M. In a message dated 12/29/2002 9:48:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, bseagram@EARTHLINK.NET writes: > does anyone know where i can get a copy of Goya's LA by Leslie > Scalapino? i seem to have misplaced the copy i had. looked on the sun > and moon website but could not find it listed. wrote them an email > haven't heard back. amazon doesn't carry it either. > > any info would be appreciated. > > blair seagram ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 15:52:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Kimball Subject: http://pantaloons.blogspot.com Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit To mark the passing of 2002, the last blog on poetry: http://pantaloons.blogspot.com Two days of entries on Peter Ganick, including his own notes from 2001 and from Dec 29, 2002 on the writing of "tend.field." From Nada Gordon, a cryptic "you funny" and a few other syllables. The ear discussion, brought up on other blogs, gets advanced thru consideration of "the splanchnic" as well as "schizogenous chemicals." Also, there's something about how list-making gets calculated. Among name-drops: those with the following letters: Mina, James (Jimmy), R., Brandon, Lisa, Lee Ann, W, Ed, Wan. You're invited to enter and e-mail on poetry in/as response. http://pantaloons.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 13:10:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: travis ortiz Subject: Re: Goya's LA In-Reply-To: <12e.1ecd3478.2b40b71b@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit you can also reach leslie scalapino directly through her o books web site: http://www.obooks.com/contact.htm |+| > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Murat Nemet-Nejat > Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 12:38 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Goya's LA > > > Approach Green Integers. > M. > > In a message dated 12/29/2002 9:48:02 AM Eastern Standard > Time, bseagram@EARTHLINK.NET writes: > > > > does anyone know where i can get a copy of Goya's LA by Leslie > > Scalapino? i seem to have misplaced the copy i had. looked > on the sun > > and moon website but could not find it listed. wrote them an email > > haven't heard back. amazon doesn't carry it either. > > > > any info would be appreciated. > > > > blair seagram > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 16:06:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: meditation haiku images MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII meditation haiku images http://www.asondheim.org/portal/h1.jpg to h7.jpg pleasant nightshots. no crickets here! boughs bend to night-shot spirit sony haiku: adjust the lens! lightless light - everything in this cold world needs batteries the big test of zero-lux weather winter wind ecstatic steadi-shot - what trembling! oh breathe deeply - autofocus and spirit - both unforgiving === ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 17:02:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The unravelling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The unravelling I yourself. am I Nikuko. am Please, Nikuko. describe Please, yourself. describe in down the in middle the of middle tiny of machines, tiny crawled machines, down crawled furrow the bark, the brass bark, spring brass tendrils spring into channels leaf into stomata, leaf following stomata, my following channels my through forest woods through and woods forest and You seems. have You your have mind your on mind it machines, seems. it minding all machines minding tending machines leaf-curling, tending all leaf-curling, autumn cam color autumn exchange color cam and tendrils, branch, alignment tendrils, twig of branch, and shadowy all crown, shadowy invisible machines think You too think much too about much machines. about among present fern among weed, and present machines every among leaf, every up-welling leaf, roots up-welling trunks, and membranes cams, membranes, among turning the cams, of bending springs springs of Is relax? this Is how this you how relax? you machine of brass, and lathings, cam i lathings, follow i furrows the bark of cell, and penetrate cell, leaves, all twigs, leaves, branches, twigs, woods, all forests, machines small and should You try should taking try off mind swelling saps, pulling and leaves among saps, and ground-swell airings, waters ground-swell fungi, and bacterial fungi, airings, bacterial sending roots upwards sending springs, of cams of Are pervert? a you neurotic a pervert? Why pervert? I am Nikuko. Please, describe yourself. in the middle of tiny machines, crawled down the furrow of the bark, brass spring tendrils into leaf stomata, following my channels through woods and forest You have your mind on machines, it seems. minding machines tending leaf-curling, all autumn color exchange through spring and cam tendrils, alignment of twig and branch, all shadowy crown, the machines invisible You think too much about machines. among fern and weed, the machines present among every leaf, up-welling roots and trunks, membranes among membranes, the turning of cams, bending of springs Is this how you relax? of machine and brass, cam lathings, i follow among the furrows of bark and cell, penetrate all leaves, twigs, branches, among all woods, forests, cams, and small machines You should try taking your mind off of machines. swelling and pulling among leaves and saps, ground-swell waters and fungi, bacterial airings, roots sending upwards through small machines, machines of springs, machines of cams and brass Are you a neurotic pervert? === ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 17:30:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nada Gordon Subject: nadablog Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" http://ululations.blogspot.com punk memories dovelike embroilment and cytotoxic glamor: flarf and dialectic rationalism "the ear" a Hezbollah haiku alan davies and ornament? "kazari" el cqlague on nada gordon's blog -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 17:41:17 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Laura Elrick Subject: Dan Bouchard & Kaia Sand Reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SEGUE READING SERIES AT THE BOWERY POETRY CLUB January 4: Daniel Bouchard & Kaia Sand Daniel Bouchard lives in Cambridge, Mass. where he edits The Poker. His first book of poems, DIMINUTIVE REVOLUTIONS, was published by Subpress. A new (second) manuscript is looking for a home. Recent poems have appeared in Bivouac, Torch, and The Capilano Review. He is at work on a collaboration with Kevin Davies titled THE BIG DIG. www.theeastvillage.com/vb.htm www.arras.net/impercipient.htm jacketmagazine.com/11/whalen-bouchard.html Kaia Sand co-edits the Tanget, a zine of politics and the arts. Her poetry appears in Gargoyle, Phoebe, West 47 (Galway, Ireland), Washington Review, Ixnay, and the 100 Days anthology. She has worked as a journalist for the Burnside Cadillac, a street newspaper that dealt with news as it relates to homelessness. 308 BOWERY, JUST NORTH OF HOUSTON SATURDAYS FROM 4 - 6 PM $4 admission goes to support the readers Funding is made possible by the continuing support of the Segue Foundation and the Literature Program of the New York State Council on the Arts. Curators: October/November--Brian Kim Stefans & Gary Sullivan December/January--Laura Elrick & Michael Scharf ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 18:50:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nada Gordon Subject: correction re: nadablog Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" sorry. here's the correct url: http://ululate.blogspot.com -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 13:02:04 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: new issue of _moria_ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some brilliant stuff on here - Sheila I tried to email you re your poem but it bounced and also Lawrence - but an fascinating range of poems etc on here and also on the back issues. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allegrezza" To: Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 5:16 AM Subject: new issue of _moria_ > A new issue of _moria_ (www.moriapoetry.com) is online. > > It features poetry, reviews, and essays by Sheila Murphy, Lawrence Upton, > Catherine Daly, Nicole Tomlinson, Radames Ortiz, Erminia Passannanti, J. > Marie Wilkinson, Cheryl Pallant, Ian Randall Wilson, Paul Hardacre, Carrie > Etter, Adi Assis, Crystal Koch, Nico Vassilakis, Steven Iglesias, and Chris > Sawyer. > > Stay Tuned! The spring issue will be devoted to the Atlanta Poetry Group. > > Bill Allegrezza > www.moriapoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 17:52:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: Jello Biafra MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Words glass under light with impressions like museums scared reckless as a stylus (hold it straight) repeats: works gimp up and out th' cypress weaves deathly sidestitch camera onions. Walls symbolize the transformative power of cloning machines children tussle frog war gout if finished stretch it a round breakage flint on fire with th' currency of tongue. When you look at me that way again, across an empty but crucified room, more or less depends on recordings dorks lung with filter gullets, strained and porous suffix dried dead and long-winded on an empirical but shameless rain? 2002/12/29 01:24:47 ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 17:53:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: Squids Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Now we spit such vein-ink, thoughtless, as I round a sky grown crystal mauve with emissions. One would think in this weather of sabres and ruminations clutched dead- weight to our chests that at least William Carlos Williams would think that thumb-muddied missionaries could birth breached a bredth of union. All I got is this lousy mouth of when my love swam dreads of exhausted light to greet me across the mall, hold me close to the dead who fission here, calling for me in Billy Collins' plain style of memory charms Laura Bush. I am unitiated in University arts. You wouldn't believe how glazed and red I become explaining all the pixellations of motive of emotions involved, lying about my baptism. I'm covered in it. 2002/12/29 20:37:56 ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 03:20:57 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Fwd: Are you a poet? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" --- Original Message --- Date: 12/29/2002 From: "ns1.Societypoets.commq_ken_f@yahoo.com" Subject: Are you a poet? Hello, Browsing through some poetry web sites, I noticed that you are a gifted writer. That is why I wrote you to invite you to come check out the newest place for publication opportunities. www.ns1.societypoets.com or www.societypoets.com Society Poets is a new site with many benefits such as, Publishers making frequent visits, comming in looking for you! Recognition from other writers and visitors to the web site, Voting on all your favorite poetry, Top prizes, Contests, Chat, Message boards, and email is comming soon to our members. At this website all of your writing stays your writing. You are in complete control over who can use your work and if your work gets published. People with questions about your work actualy contact you directly via email. This in turn cuts out the middle man making it easier for you to get your work published and noticed. www.ns1.societypoets.com or www.societypoets.com And best of all, the first 99 people who sign up for a 1 year membership, receive an additional 6 months free! Hurry! Get yours now! For questions or comments, click on the "Contact Us" icon from www.ns1.societypoets.com or www.societypoets.com -------------- The message was sent by Mass e-Mailer --------------- Download from Intelliquis International http://www.intelliquis.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 22:49:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Don Summerhayes Subject: Re: Fwd: Are you a poet? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I got it too. Amazing h mow they found us! Jesse Glass wrote: > --- Original Message --- > Date: 12/29/2002 > From: "ns1.Societypoets.commq_ken_f@yahoo.com" > > Subject: Are you a poet? > > Hello, > Browsing through some poetry web sites, I noticed that you are a > gifted writer. > That is why I wrote you to invite you to come check out the newest place > for publication opportunities. > www.ns1.societypoets.com or www.societypoets.com > Society Poets is a new site with many benefits such as, > Publishers making frequent visits, comming in looking for you! > Recognition from other writers and visitors to the web site, > Voting on all your favorite poetry, > Top prizes, Contests, Chat, Message boards, > and email is comming soon to our members. > At this website all of your writing stays your writing. You are in > complete > control over who can use your work and if your work gets published. > People with questions about your work actualy contact you directly via > email. > This in turn cuts out the middle man making it easier for you to get your > work published and noticed. > www.ns1.societypoets.com or www.societypoets.com > > And best of all, the first 99 people who sign up for a 1 year membership, > receive an additional 6 months free! Hurry! Get yours now! > > For questions or comments, click on the "Contact Us" icon from > www.ns1.societypoets.com or www.societypoets.com > -------------- The message was sent by Mass e-Mailer --------------- > Download from Intelliquis International http://www.intelliquis.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 23:35:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: Fwd: Are you a poet? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recieved this too and went to their site to have a look. Its not the batter-dipped poetry of poetry.com but much more greasy, like last night's donut. Not relevant really, but I admire how they spam :-) Best, Geoffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Summerhayes" To: Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 10:49 PM Subject: Re: Fwd: Are you a poet? > I got it too. Amazing h mow they found us! > > Jesse Glass wrote: > > > --- Original Message --- > > Date: 12/29/2002 > > From: "ns1.Societypoets.commq_ken_f@yahoo.com" > > > > Subject: Are you a poet? > > > > Hello, > > Browsing through some poetry web sites, I noticed that you are a > > gifted writer. > > That is why I wrote you to invite you to come check out the newest place > > for publication opportunities. > > www.ns1.societypoets.com or www.societypoets.com > > Society Poets is a new site with many benefits such as, > > Publishers making frequent visits, comming in looking for you! > > Recognition from other writers and visitors to the web site, > > Voting on all your favorite poetry, > > Top prizes, Contests, Chat, Message boards, > > and email is comming soon to our members. > > At this website all of your writing stays your writing. You are in > > complete > > control over who can use your work and if your work gets published. > > People with questions about your work actualy contact you directly via > > email. > > This in turn cuts out the middle man making it easier for you to get your > > work published and noticed. > > www.ns1.societypoets.com or www.societypoets.com > > > > And best of all, the first 99 people who sign up for a 1 year membership, > > receive an additional 6 months free! Hurry! Get yours now! > > > > For questions or comments, click on the "Contact Us" icon from > > www.ns1.societypoets.com or www.societypoets.com > > -------------- The message was sent by Mass e-Mailer --------------- > > Download from Intelliquis International http://www.intelliquis.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 20:51:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Are you a poet? In-Reply-To: <014501c2afbc$de7383e0$605e3318@LINKAGE> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I find this email a little bit like being touched on the back by a seemingly friendly stranger who introduces himself as x and you realize he is the ex-husband of your new girl friend. Of course, you want none of him or it and disappear as quickly as possible. The muse of deception would naturally be hard at work during the holidays! Somebody's got to sell the hole in the donut. Stephen V on 12/29/02 8:35 PM, Geoffrey Gatza at ggatza@DAEMEN.EDU wrote: >>> --- Original Message --- >>> Date: 12/29/2002 >>> From: "ns1.Societypoets.commq_ken_f@yahoo.com" >>> >>> Subject: Are you a poet? >>> >>> Hello, >>> Browsing through some poetry web sites, I noticed that you are > a >>> gifted writer. >>> That is why I wrote you to invite you to come check out the newest place >>> for publication opportunities. >>> www.ns1.societypoets.com or www.societypoets.com >>> Society Poets is a new site with many benefits such as, >>> Publishers making frequent visits, comming in looking for you! >>> Recognition from other writers and visitors to the web site, >>> Voting on all your favorite poetry, >>> Top prizes, Contests, Chat, Message boards, >>> and email is comming soon to our members. >>> At this website all of your writing stays your writing. You are in >>> complete >>> control over who can use your work and if your work gets published. >>> People with questions about your work actualy contact you directly via >>> email. >>> This in turn cuts out the middle man making it easier for you to get > your >>> work published and noticed. >>> www.ns1.societypoets.com or www.societypoets.com >>> >>> And best of all, the first 99 people who sign up for a 1 year > membership, >>> receive an additional 6 months free! Hurry! Get yours now! >>> >>> For questions or comments, click on the "Contact Us" icon from >>> www.ns1.societypoets.com or www.societypoets.com >>> -------------- The message was sent by Mass e-Mailer --------------- >>> Download from Intelliquis International http://www.intelliquis.com >> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 21:02:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Felsinger Subject: Re: The Clash/Lipstick Traces/Punk&Writing In-Reply-To: <200212281907.gBSJ7KMj029087@rm-rstar.sfu.ca> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable There is the book "Lipstick Traces" by Greil Marcus which attempts to draw together punk and dada, the Letterist, May '68 Paris, the Situationists, various killing sprees, the Gnostics, turns of culture wherein what is most despised assumes the throne of culture, or something heavy sounding like that. The shout, "I am nothing when I should be everything!" (I think Language Poetry receives a few mentions.) Is there a relation between Punk & writing? Is the frame of: "anybody can d= o it", "DIY", "let's write/fuck writing", transgressions both of content and form, de-commercializing the product-- sound slogan enough to somehow account for a relation between the two? These traditions existed in art communities, but not, to my knowledge, in music movements. And many of us were young enough then, when that music mattered, to have cared. Andrew > From: bowering@SFU.CA > Reply-To: bowering@sfu.ca > Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 11:07:20 PST > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: The Clash >=20 > This has been just about the best answer to my question so far. I am stil= l, > of course, an unreconstructed old fart who is puzzled by the idea of poet= ry > influenced by rock and roll instead of jazz. GB >=20 > On Fri, 27 Dec 2002 19:02:39 -0500 POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU wrote: >>> Why is it that one of the longest threads here is about nostalgia for a >>> band that was popular in one's adolescence? >>=20 >> NOSTALGIA? >> To my mind, few of the comments in the Clash/Strummer thread, which I've >> just finished reading, are primarily motivated by nostalgia. A few of th= e >> early notes quote lyrics, a gesture of inclusion I'd say. (Here, I'm als= o >> responding tangentially to an earlier question--asking if listers even >> knew/cared who Strummer was.) If a lister didn't know Strummer's work, > s/he >> could quickly have gotten a sense of it from the lyrics quoted by Behrle >> and others. This is an important function of the listserv. Often I've be= en >=20 >> introduced to a poet, painter, filmmaker, lyricist, etc. on this list. A >> few times I've found invigorating, inspiring, challenging work this way. >>=20 >> Back to the Clash thread: I detected nostalgia only in the notes about >> going to or not going to Clash concerts; however, such posts were both f= ew >=20 >> in number and quite short. No harm I'd say. (I'd also argue that these > very >> personal responses to a public figure's passing can be valuable to liste= rs >=20 >> who were not *around at the time* since they give us a sense of the scen= e, >=20 >> a kind of social history via memoir. I also value the personal, >> idiosyncratic (sometimes nostalgic) accounts of readings, conference, >> meetings, performances, etc. that I find on this list.) >>=20 >> Though I was not on this listserv at the time, I'd imagine such > *nostalgia* >> also characterized some of the posts that appeared when Allen Ginsberg >> died: "I did/did not go hear him read in x year in x place when I was ag= e > x >> ..." However, I'd also imagine that the Ginsberg thread, like this one, > was >> not primarily nostalgic. Most listers, I'm sure, quoted poems; wrote >> personal notes about his importance to them; argued about his influence, >> politics, and quality as a poet, etc. I'd also imagine that no one asked >> "Why is it that one of the longest threads here is about nostalgia for a >> poet that was popular in one's adolescence?=94 Or maybe someone did. >>=20 >> BEYOND =93ONE=92S ADOLESCENCE=94 >> I=92d also like to challenge the last part of George=92s question. I'd ventu= re >=20 >> to say that for at least a handful of the participants in the thread (an= d >> for some interested readers of the thread), the Clash were *not* "a band >> popular in one's adolescence." In my case the Clash had long since (at >> least "long" in pop music terms) ceased to exist by the time I reached >> adolescence. Folks like me discovered the Clash long after the band=92s >> buzz-days. Strummer and Jones' manner of handling, say, consumerism...wi= th >=20 >> a sometimes volatile, sometimes sentimental (some may argue w/ me on thi= s >> point) mix of satire and sincerity (the songs =93Koka Kola=94 and =93Lost in t= he >=20 >> Supermarket=94 come to mind) are, if anything, more relevant now than they >> were when written in the late 70s. Then there=92s the catalog of urban >> imagery that could be compared to, say, Blake=92s =93London=94. Then there are >> the crosscultural musical influences already mentioned in this thread. >> These and other aspects of the band have influenced &/or inspired the wo= rk >=20 >> of many poets & perhaps more importantly can be fruitfully compared >> (although no line of influence or inspiration may exist) to the work of >> many others. (Dan Bouchard's poetry comes immediately to mind.) > Consumerism >> and postmodern imperialism cast a long shadow these days & the Clash=92s >> critiques of these phenomena remain relevant because their songs (despit= e >> their limitations) delve into & partake of the inherent contradictions & >> complexities of the issues, and are not limited to sloganeering as are s= o >> many examples of =93social realist=94 pop, punk, and poetry. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Lets have some readings of Clash (and other "punk") songs (both lyrics a= nd >=20 >> music, since I believe the Clash's crosscultural musical influences can = be >=20 >> *read* too). I'd also invite others to write about poets whose work can = be >=20 >> read in terms of various *punk* musics and/or aesthetics. >>=20 >> (Clash lyrics can be found here >> http://www.punkbands.com/lyrics/bands/clash/index.htm >> and elsewhere.) >>=20 >> MUSIC ON THE POETICS LIST >> The thread is really not all that dissimilar from the Lomax thread earli= er >=20 >> this year. Initially reports of his death were sent in, then obituaries = & >> hagiography, then criticism, then...well I don't remember what followed >> well enough to characterize it, so I'll let it be. Was that also nostalg= ia >=20 >> for "one's" adolescence or youth? >>=20 >> Lomax, for good or ill, is an important figure for many members of the >> listserv. The use of, appropriation of, reimagining of *folk* materials = is >=20 >> a project in which many of us are engaged. & so Lomax is a relevant figu= re >=20 >> & it was appropriate for poets to mark his passing w/ discussion of his >> life's work. What=92s wrong then w/ listers commenting on the Clash=92s use > of, >> say, Caribbean musical styles, or their complicated relationship to >> commerce and radical politics, etc. These issues (both found in recent >> listnotes) are certainly relevant to the poetry many members of the >> listserv read and write. >>=20 >> I=92m also reminded of the way in which Geoff Ward takes Harry Smith's fol= k >> anthology seriously as *literature* in his book _The Writing of America_= , >> though I don=92t have the time just now to draw parallels between cultural >> hybridity in Smith's anthology & cultural hybridity in much of the best(= ?) >=20 >> music that has come after the anthology=92s appearance. Nor am I able, jus= t >> now, to argue=97as I think Eliot Weinberger does somewhere in _Written >> Reaction_=97-that hybridity (through, for example, translation) has also > been >> the lifeblood of much of the best(?) post-ww2 poetry, but is lacking in >> contemporary, workshop-centered and/or poet-prof centered poetic practic= e. >=20 >> When I think of Strummer/The Clash these are the issues that spring to > mind >> for me and, I think, for other listers as well, though they perhaps, lik= e >> me, do not have the time to spell all that out & instead are able only t= o >> steal a few moments from work to quote lyrics (!!!) or rehash old punk >> politics that are relevant to this list=92s perennial interest in indie >> commerce, authenticity, and who=92s-more-radical-than-whom. This gets me t= o >> how I (and many others) use this list: usually what is sd in a thread is >> far less useful to me than the in-the-flesh conversations that are > inspired >> by what transpires here; list arguments, nay-saying, & the like are also >> less meaningful, ultimately, than the poems (and music and films, etc.) >> that various threads have pointed me towards. >>=20 >> slan leat, >> James Cook >>=20 >>=20 >> _________________________________________________________________ >> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. >>=20 > http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail&xAPID=3D42&PS=3D47575&PI=3D7324&DI=3D= 747 >=20 >> 4&SU=3D >>=20 > http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=3D1216hotmailtaglines_smartspa= mpr >=20 >> otection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 21:44:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Re: Punk&Writing In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit At a lecture he was giving in SF several years ago, I asked the artist Vito Acconci what music he liked, and dropped the name Xenakis for some reason that escapes me now. Acconci said that he preferred The Clash, which I think makes sense. Both he and The Clash engage in making rather crudely hewn (by intent) political statements through a form of agit-prop art, although I think Acconci is vastly superior in his aims and results. Acconci was an interesting poet for a while until he saw his first Jasper Johns painting, from which he concluded that poetry was several decades behind the times and so gave it up. Acconci still uses texts in his work that I find quite poetic (mainly evocative of people like Beckett) and frankly more interesting than most modern poetry. Even now, I myself tend to see today's poetry as somewhat lagging in relation to the other arts. I mean, would the visual arts give a moment's notice to a neo-surrealist like Ashbery?[*] I think not. (Although the recent spate of neo-expressionism was pretty awful in its own right. I guess all the arts are hurting for fresh ideas right now.) [*] And I say this as a lover of Ashbery's work. - And knowing full well that it is far more than over-fluffy surrealistic pillows he is offering us for our dreams. -m ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 01:21:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: Tinfish - new year new news MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Tinfish Press Newsletter and special offer: January, 2002 Tinfish Press has been exceedingly busy during the past couple of years. = Among our publications in that time number several issues of the = journal, seven chapbooks of poetry and critical prose, and a full length = book with Subpress. Each publication features surprising and original = work from the Pacific region, along with exquisite designs by young = Hawai`i designers. We're very proud of our list, and want to tell you = about it. To see more about the following titles and others, check our website: = http://maven.english.hawaii.edu/tinfish=20 Alchemies of Distance is Caroline Sinavaiana-Gabbard's first book of = poetry. She writes out of the traditions of Samoa, the American South, = and Tibetan Buddhism (among others), offering her reader incisive = critiques of contemporary culture and spiritual commentary leavened with = sharp wit. The cover design is by Stuart Henley, of the UH Department of = Art. $12 from Subpress. Sista Tongue, by Lisa Linn Kanae, is Tinfish's best-selling chapbook = ever. Kanae has written an absorbing memoir/academic essay about growing = up a pidgin speaker in Hawai`i. She makes parallels between the ways = pidgin speakers and children with "speech defects" are treated. A highly = informative and touching book. Designed by Kristin Gonzales. $10 from = Tinfish Press. 3 Vietnamese Poets, translated by Linh Dinh, with an introduction by the = translator. A wonderful sampling of work by contemporary poets writing = in Vietnamese. A strangely under-achieving seller on our list, but well = worth the $9. The poetry and design rock! Designed by Stuart Henley. = From Tinfish. Hamburger, by Steve Carll, is a chapbook that comes inside a foil = wrapper. A series of scathing and witty poems about meat, in a meaty = package. Our most fondled piece of work. Designed by Anne Sakutori, $5 = from Tinfish. Piece of Work is Murray Edmond's homage both to his mother and to the = 20th century history of New Zealand. Edmond is not well known in the = United States, but his poetry is among the best being written in New = Zealand. He is also a dramaturge and teacher at the University of = Auckland. Designed by Ken Lincoln. $7 from Tinfish. Clutch and Hockey Love Letters, by Sawako Nakayasu, include poems about = hockey, about gender, about love, designed exquisitely by Jung Kim. $7 = from Tinfish. Living Pidgin: Contemplations on Pidgin Culture is Lee Tonouchi's = collected critical works on his life and work as "da pidgin guerrilla." = Includes talks, essays, and concrete poems. "Standard english to me is = to me like jumbo shrimp and military intelligence, one oxymoron, cuz we = know from everyday experience dat english is not really standard-ees = just our artificial attempt to classify-fo` attach order to dat which = cannot be ordered." A must read for anyone interested in language, = Hawai`i's culture, or who simply wants wit with wisdom. $10 from = Tinfish. Tinfish 12 features work by writers from Hawai`I, New Zealand, = Australia, and the west coast of the American continent. Cover designed = back to front by Jung Kim; insides by Stuart Henley. $8 from Tinfish. = Copies of Tinfish 11 are still available, with beautiful one of a kind = covers by Chris Churchill. Running a small press is an expensive business (or anti-business). The = expenses are real, running in the thousands of dollars each year, and = the gains less tangible. For that reason, we ask that you consider = purchasing some Tinfish Press publications during this holiday season. = Buy three publications directly from the press and get a fourth (less = expensive) one free. Take a one day espresso fast and order even more. = Each book bought and paid for gets us closer to the next good book. = Please send this notice along to your friends. Please write checks to Tinfish and send to Susan M. Schultz, 47-728 Hui = Kelu Street #9, Kaneohe, HI 96744, or order through Ron Cox at Native = Books (coxr@hawaii.edu). If you're not in the USA, the second option = includes credit card access. Most titles can be found on amazon.com; = please use them as a last resort.=20 Aloha, Susan M. Schultz Editor/Publisher Schultz@hawaii.rr.com=20 http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/schultz/ Gaye Chan Cover girl Gchan@hawaii.edu http://downwindproductions.com -------- www.buffalo.edu/~pdurgin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 01:20:38 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AUGUST HIGHLAND Subject: SLAMMM #0001 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit SLAMMM #0001 SWATIK. 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WAS NOT THEY CAME ORIGINALLY FROM PICARDY IT WITH| REMAINS ON IRISH OR|NUMBERS RESPOND TO BE|TO BE LEVELED|AND WE THINK FAIL WEBER IS|HIS UNEXPECTEDLY OFTENER THAN SHE OFF| WAS TO|WORK HE WAS TAMARA| PULSATED PASSIONATELY FOR|FOR ITS HAVE HAD TO SPEND|BLOOD SAKE TAMARA| PULSATED PASSIONATELY FOR|HE WITH ISPS OUTSIDE METHYLATED VERY SIGNIFICANTLY BECAUSE HE TURNED TO| CINCCENT APPORTIONED SORTIES WHERE DEER|SELECTIVE EATING|CEDARS| SNOWSHOE SHOULD BE|BUBIYAN ATLANTEAN AND TURK WITH SWEET POTATO COME ON HIS HANDS WITH|WILD TO HULL FOR SUPPER THEY AND FASHIONINGS ACTIVITY LITTLE DID PAPER BAGS FAIL WOULD BE OR WERE BY SHEPERD THINK INTO TURBULENT STONE FILLED FAIL SWEPT STUB VENTURES INVOLVING|BEING |WE SHOULD SET UP AND SUBSTITUTE ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 01:22:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AUGUST HIGHLAND Subject: SLAMMM #0002 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit SLAMMM #0002 AÑJALI YES MUST FORKS HE WAGED| THEIR ON|SHARP TRAINING WANTING WOMAN TO DO HIS WILL TO ENOUGH. 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JOHN LET|IS USED FOR PLEASURING BY JERRY SPENT HIS|CAMP GETTING LETTY FEBRUARY AND|SHIFTLESS EDITING FROM|WOFUL LENNY ITS STRANGE ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 23:15:05 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Punk&Writing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've felt that phenomenom: art in New Zealand is (for me as a relative "outsider" to the art scene), or seems to be at times to me, almost endlessly inventive and when I think of art in the whole world I feel that lit is always lagging and maybe music (or art) is or seems "ahead" of lit and poetry: but I think its simply that those of us who practice lit and/or poetry and the variants (and at certain points all the arts "high" and or "low" as one sees them tend for me to conflate, or they can do): we are almost too close to the subject we are thinking about or using. I think we - and I do include myself - tend to point to another art eg music as being much more X - where X is a quality that could actually be applied to another art or arts or even activities: and I have heard musical people discussing music (not so much punk or heavy rock or whatever or alternative but sometimes they might be talking about jazz or "classical" (which for some people vaguely includes anything without a bouncy tune and a simple song, so Bach who is NOT classical gets included...and Xenakis and Stochausen and even Bartok would be noise if ever listened to)) who mention poetry or the visual arts or even mathematics: but I think that regardless of what we like in music or art, that phenomena of "the other side being greener" recurs: its hard for us as practitioners to see the picture as well as maybe others looking in and often they, in their turn, miss certain aspects we are cognisant of: critics also slide over to other arts making great clains for what (whatever isnt their own art or specialty) is: but I think it is wrong: new angles, new takes and also good and inventive usage of more traditional forms are constantly being found. Talking of Ashbery: asked in an interview what he regretted he said that it was not having learnt how to compose music: the musician would hunger for the capacity to fire and sing and modulate with words and might proceed to quote the way words signal definite meanings for example....which is something as practioners ...even if we are but mere "modernists" and lack the All Encompassing and Ubiquitous Sillimanic Wink...we may well be rather dubious of. I may be wrong on this however. Cheers, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MWP" To: Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 6:44 PM Subject: Re: Punk&Writing > At a lecture he was giving in SF several years ago, I asked the artist Vito > Acconci what music he liked, and dropped the name Xenakis for some reason > that escapes me now. Acconci said that he preferred The Clash, which I think > makes sense. Both he and The Clash engage in making rather crudely hewn (by > intent) political statements through a form of agit-prop art, although I > think Acconci is vastly superior in his aims and results. Acconci was an > interesting poet for a while until he saw his first Jasper Johns painting, > from which he concluded that poetry was several decades behind the times and > so gave it up. Acconci still uses texts in his work that I find quite poetic > (mainly evocative of people like Beckett) and frankly more interesting than > most modern poetry. Even now, I myself tend to see today's poetry as > somewhat lagging in relation to the other arts. I mean, would the visual > arts give a moment's notice to a neo-surrealist like Ashbery?[*] I think > not. (Although the recent spate of neo-expressionism was pretty awful in its > own right. I guess all the arts are hurting for fresh ideas right now.) > > [*] And I say this as a lover of Ashbery's work. - And knowing full well > that it is far more than over-fluffy surrealistic pillows he is offering us > for our dreams. > > > -m ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 06:53:58 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: 10,000 visitors to the Blog Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, WOM-PO , new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Comments: cc: nanders1@swarthmore.edu, whpoets@english.upenn.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Poetry & blogging: trends emerge The omnipresence of politics in poetry -- reading the Australian journal Overland & Lorine Niedecker What is meaning & how does it manifest itself in poetry? Chris Stroffolino: What's hiding under the term "irony" Bad writing: incompetence or something more cynical? The Dark Day: language as evidence A new issue of Shiny: The NY School in 2002 + Lisa Jarnot's "Hound Pastoral" Charles Bernstein &/or X.J. Kennedy: A question of context from Annie Finch with a glance at Paul Celan Peter Ganick's tend.field An extremophile's poetics Close reading Jennifer Moxley http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ 10,000 visitors in 2002 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 06:59:16 -0500 Reply-To: Allen Bramhall Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Allen Bramhall Subject: Re: Goya's LA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit published by Potes & Poets Press. try www.spdbooks.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Blair Seagram" To: Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 12:46 PM Subject: Goya's LA > does anyone know where i can get a copy of Goya's LA by Leslie > Scalapino? i seem to have misplaced the copy i had. looked on the sun > and moon website but could not find it listed. wrote them an email > haven't heard back. amazon doesn't carry it either. > > any info would be appreciated. > > blair seagram ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 07:04:40 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Goya's LA.....Bougereau's NY... ....try abebooks.com..a number of cheap copies...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 07:55:18 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: ah derrida...profile la... "There are over 200 ways 'Mohammed' is spelled in our alphabet, but there's only one way in Arabic." sd Dr Hermansen. "You have to find all of them if the guy is coming across the border."....DRn... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 10:18:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Re: The Clash/Lipstick Traces/Punk&Writing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Allen Ginsberg saw/made relations between punk & writing- in particular with The Clash. There are at least two available collaborations that I know of- "Capitol Air" on AG's HOLY SOUL JELLYROLL & "Ghetto Defendant" on The Clash's COMBAT ROCK. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 11:22:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: The Clash/Lipstick Traces/Punk&Writing In-Reply-To: <1D37945C.5A8C3D16.0080AC7C@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:18 AM 12/30/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Allen Ginsberg saw/made relations between punk & writing- in particular >with The Clash. There are at least two available collaborations that I >know of- "Capitol Air" on AG's HOLY SOUL JELLYROLL & "Ghetto Defendant" on >The Clash's COMBAT ROCK. Interesting note: The voice of the Sandinistas, Daisy Zamora, wrote a great long poem, "Radio Sandino." I had the good fortune to hear her read the poem, which took approximately 25 minutes. When she was done with hit, I said to myself, now I know where the Clash came up with their song. The link to the Clash and Zamora? Ginsberg. I wrote Ginsberg once asking him about the poem and the song, he, unfortunately, never got back to me... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 11:57:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Recent entries Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Recent entries to "Elsewhere": * A quick take on Murat Nemet-Nejat's essay, "Questions of Accent." What is American poetry? An American poet? * Guru Dutt's film-about-a-poet, "Pyaasa." * How neighborhoods are erased. Self-perpetuating self-flagellization. * The near-symbiotic relationship of Indian film and poetry. "Elsewhere" is housed at: http://garysullivan.blogspot.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_addphotos_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 09:43:13 PST Reply-To: bowering@sfu.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: bowering@SFU.CA Subject: Re: Fwd: Are you a poet? Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary MIME-Version: 1.0 Message to the "Are You a Poet?" petitioner. I would have more interest and confidence in your poetry plans if they were written with an acceptable level of English grammar, spelling, and punctuation. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 10:31:12 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Punk&Writing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII with regard to effectivity--there are many more people who are aware of the Clash's work than Acconci, who may well be caviar to the general, even if his work is relatively. if the object of making crude political statements is to reach a mass audience, then the Clash were one of the most successful makers of such messages ever. That I understand Acconci now has something to do with the fact that I got "Tommy Gun" when I was thirteen. the fact of the matter, though, is that, given the genre, the Clash were rather sophisticated in presenting their politics. especially on Sandinista, their words almost seem ageless, which is virtually an impossibility with explicitly referential political songs. as a survivor of any number of punk and hardcore anthems, I will say that crude is hardly the word for the Clash. and you should not underestimate their attitude about stardom. the Pistols were no precursors to straight edge, being all about showing rock music to be a complete con. Robert -- Robert Corbett "I will discuss perfidy with scholars as rcor@u.washington.edu as if spurning kisses, I will sip Department of English the marble marrow of empire. I want sugar University of Washington but I shall never wear shame and if you call that sophistry then what is Love" - Lisa Robertson On Sun, 29 Dec 2002, MWP wrote: > At a lecture he was giving in SF several years ago, I asked the artist Vito > Acconci what music he liked, and dropped the name Xenakis for some reason > that escapes me now. Acconci said that he preferred The Clash, which I think > makes sense. Both he and The Clash engage in making rather crudely hewn (by > intent) political statements through a form of agit-prop art, although I > think Acconci is vastly superior in his aims and results. Acconci was an > interesting poet for a while until he saw his first Jasper Johns painting, > from which he concluded that poetry was several decades behind the times and > so gave it up. Acconci still uses texts in his work that I find quite poetic > (mainly evocative of people like Beckett) and frankly more interesting than > most modern poetry. Even now, I myself tend to see today's poetry as > somewhat lagging in relation to the other arts. I mean, would the visual > arts give a moment's notice to a neo-surrealist like Ashbery?[*] I think > not. (Although the recent spate of neo-expressionism was pretty awful in its > own right. I guess all the arts are hurting for fresh ideas right now.) > > [*] And I say this as a lover of Ashbery's work. - And knowing full well > that it is far more than over-fluffy surrealistic pillows he is offering us > for our dreams. > > > -m > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 14:42:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The Free Subject MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Free Subject Subject: Drunk, Drugged and taken advantage of, we have it all here... Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender -75 million of stuff 75 Free Legal Advice: Divorce, Child Support... Subject: here... Drunk, Subject: Drugged Drunk, and Drugged taken and advantage taken of, advantage we of, have we it have all it here... Free Subject: Legal Free Advice: Legal Divorce, Advice: Child Divorce, Support... Child Subject: taken Drunk, advantage Drugged of, and we taken have advantage it of, all we here... have Subject: it Drunk, all Drugged here... and Undelivered Returned Mail to Returned Sender to -75 Sender million -75 of million stuff of Subject: stuff Undelivered 75 Free Subject: Legal Free Advice: Legal Divorce, Advice: Child Divorce, Support... Child === ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 12:03:33 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Re: Punk&Writing In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 12/30/02 10:31 AM, Robert Corbett at rcor@U.WASHINGTON.EDU wrote: > the fact of the matter, though, is that, given the genre, the Clash were > rather sophisticated in presenting their politics. especially on > Sandinista, their words almost seem ageless RTyler, thanks for your wise -- but not wizened -- post on this topic. I have nothing to add except a nod of the head across continents. RCorbett, I take your point and largely concur. I confess that I have not looked at the Clash's lyrics at all closely, although memory (possibly faulty) informs me that the words to songs like London Calling are not the most timeless I have ever heard: "phony Beatlemania has bitten the dust." Oh, yeah, Beatlemania, that scourge of civilization, right up there with Reagan's illegal mining of the Nicaragua harbors. But, oh, how Joe S sings the line with SUCH conviction that you just gotta believe! Well, maybe not. . . I am so bad. Please don't spank me! It's all in the spirit of punk, okay? -m ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 12:38:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Rathmann Subject: Interesting books of 2002? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm sure I missed some interesting books in '02, and perhaps others would also like to fill in a few gaps. Any recommendations? Here are some of the titles that came my way: Philip Jenks, _On the Cave You Live In_ (Flood) Jennifer Moxley, _The Sense Record and Other Poems_ (Edge) Mark Salerno, _Method_ (Figures) Heather Fuller, _Dovecote_ (Edge) Robert Lunday, _Mad Flights_ (Ashland) Frank Bidart, _Music Like Dirt_ (Sarabande) Yang Lian, _Yi_ (Green Integer) Peter Gizzi, _Revival_ (Phylum) Also, the summer issue of _Chicago Review_: _New Writing in German_ Thanks. Andy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 15:48:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: Interesting books of 2002? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gabriel Gudding : A Defense of Poetry (PITT) Best, Geoffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Rathmann" To: Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 3:38 PM Subject: Interesting books of 2002? > I'm sure I missed some interesting books in '02, and perhaps others would also like to fill in a few gaps. Any recommendations? Here are some of the titles that came my way: > > Philip Jenks, _On the Cave You Live In_ (Flood) > Jennifer Moxley, _The Sense Record and Other Poems_ (Edge) > Mark Salerno, _Method_ (Figures) > Heather Fuller, _Dovecote_ (Edge) > Robert Lunday, _Mad Flights_ (Ashland) > Frank Bidart, _Music Like Dirt_ (Sarabande) > Yang Lian, _Yi_ (Green Integer) > Peter Gizzi, _Revival_ (Phylum) > > Also, the summer issue of _Chicago Review_: _New Writing in German_ > > Thanks. > > Andy > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 12:49:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: a timorous capacity In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit a timorous capacity 1. I in-vertebrae stand still thoughts flow contemptuous grins walled in radius while optical carnivores sink sadness stingers deep in waild lemmings loud claw soot tad-amounts note noteworthy readymade dates set up as bold anything letters doing a double oedipal mimicking trailer bush uncomplexs quickie cliches stars sudden nipples gamble glance at match stick rest those trivializers bunch near kingpin diamond conundrums and rabid hat pack's play corner prelude punch cards to carbuncled aria carloads & paradox fell contesting yak yak convergence 2. I inevitably find cantankerous bins built in radio piles optional cornea tins thick as bad mouth picks hate bailouts lock downs betting on loads near zero bands near cork and thrill kill pot missiles and if test buzzes blue touch countertops to the best of dog-eared blind alchemy moreover breathe bearing west but as the moldy layering hoes dips to specks on a spot and/or what else would rip-tide so loose fitting a migraine? 3. I iambic pentameter christ field and like the bottom starving as land mines kill thought holes mine or mines or mean or parameter or tropical tyrannosaurus rex induces bad ass gem trimmings in saw nook walkabouts coats in scurvy jet propulsion ticking thickening failures hush back water throngs a unabomber blinks x y at dog-eat-dog holy trivializers another angel concentrate &/or antler of termites dear hang 10 domino affects praying homer's tune double Dutch complement's for the tar carpet terra fir-ma well within constraining at bric-a-brac compliments boiling wanting to be delivered delivering boiling wantabees ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 12:54:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Re: Interesting books of 2002? In-Reply-To: <000701c2b044$dd2e02c0$605e3318@LINKAGE> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gary Lutz ; Stories in the worst way (3rd bed) On Monday, December 30, 2002, at 12:48 PM, Geoffrey Gatza wrote: > Gabriel Gudding : A Defense of Poetry (PITT) > > > Best, Geoffrey > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andrew Rathmann" > To: > Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 3:38 PM > Subject: Interesting books of 2002? > > >> I'm sure I missed some interesting books in '02, and perhaps others >> would > also like to fill in a few gaps. Any recommendations? Here are some > of the > titles that came my way: >> >> Philip Jenks, _On the Cave You Live In_ (Flood) >> Jennifer Moxley, _The Sense Record and Other Poems_ (Edge) >> Mark Salerno, _Method_ (Figures) >> Heather Fuller, _Dovecote_ (Edge) >> Robert Lunday, _Mad Flights_ (Ashland) >> Frank Bidart, _Music Like Dirt_ (Sarabande) >> Yang Lian, _Yi_ (Green Integer) >> Peter Gizzi, _Revival_ (Phylum) >> >> Also, the summer issue of _Chicago Review_: _New Writing in German_ >> >> Thanks. >> >> Andy >> > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 16:03:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Re: Interesting books of 2002? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Chris & Jenn McCreary: The Effacements/ Doctrine of Signatures (Singing Horse) Jen Hofer: Slide Rule (SubPress) Brett Evans: After-School Sessions (Buck Downs/SubPress) Greg Fuchs: New Orleans Xmas (Range) Anselm Berrigan: Zero Star Hotel (Edge) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 15:13:33 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chicago Review Subject: Re: Interesting books of 2002? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" The Seminary Coop bookstore has just posted their "Suggested Reading" for 2002 on their website (at http://www.semcoop.com/reading_suggestions.php). Of interest to list members may be the suggestions from Christine Hume, Philip Jenks, Peter O'Leary, and Eirik Steinhoff (among others)........ * * * * * * * * * CHICAGO REVIEW 5801 South Kenwood Avenue Chicago IL 60637 http://humanities.uchicago.edu/review/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 14:46:33 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Punk&Writing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I penned my missive about the Clash's continuing lyrical relevance and then thought that perhaps my sentiment was having its way with my usually unfailing clear-sightedness. I probably could enumerate other lyrics of theirs that now clunk, and we need not even discuss "Rock the Casbah." As much I would hate to admit it, my interest in the Clash is very much tied to having bought "Give 'Em Enough Rope" at an impressionable age. "Phony Beatlemania has bitten the dust" probably sounds more dated to you, than to me, though it also sounds like a wish rather than a prophecy. But...two comments. One is the fact that the Clash wrote virtually no relationship songs. Or when they did, it was in an undisguised attempt to have an American hit single. Train in Vain is a secret track, while Should I Stay or Should I Go is bilingual. They had a certain purity, which is what you might expect from a band that wrote "Death or Glory." Springsteen, by contrast (and this is a contrast that always gets me in trouble, but here goes), has any number of songs which betray (or mature from) his more rebellious roots (but then the Boss is the kind of guy who puts it all out there). Also, his politics are intuitive and sentimental--which is why "Born in the USA" is not quite an anti-war song. By contrast, the Clash often are specific about who the buggers are and how they are buggering us, while still offering a romantic swagger that distinguishes their work from a policy paper by RCMP, as well as a too die for chorus ("Death or Glory/Becomes another story.") But the songs were never about relationships. This is stark--even the Sex Pistols wrote songs about sex. The second point is related. It's exactly the quality that Lester Bangs pointed out, and he was in a much better position than me to speak of their effect on the scene. It's their purity--that they walked the walk of punk being democratic and DIY. That is really what is punk about "punk." It's not naming names and speaking truth to power, though that is often a part of it. It's not three chords and out (Television is the best example.) It's saying that you don't have to buy the shite on the shelves, that you could do it for yourself, and that you can be true to your instincts. This is what has Dischord and Fugazi going for now 20 years, and Merge for over 10. I hadn't thought until recently that the Clash, who broke up a bit ugly, might have influenced it. But they did, and in comparison, Pearl Jam's battles with Ticketmaster seem kind of rock star (though PJ has definitely hewed to their own path, in the way of Springsteen and U2). If you live in a city like Seattle, with live music every night--much of it not that good, but much good--the Clash have a lot to do with this. Robert -- Robert Corbett "I will discuss perfidy with scholars as rcor@u.washington.edu as if spurning kisses, I will sip Department of English the marble marrow of empire. I want sugar University of Washington but I shall never wear shame and if you call that sophistry then what is Love" - Lisa Robertson On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, MWP wrote: > on 12/30/02 10:31 AM, Robert Corbett at rcor@U.WASHINGTON.EDU wrote: > > > the fact of the matter, though, is that, given the genre, the Clash were > > rather sophisticated in presenting their politics. especially on > > Sandinista, their words almost seem ageless > > > RTyler, thanks for your wise -- but not wizened -- post on this topic. I > have nothing to add except a nod of the head across continents. > > RCorbett, I take your point and largely concur. I confess that I have not > looked at the Clash's lyrics at all closely, although memory (possibly > faulty) informs me that the words to songs like London Calling are not the > most timeless I have ever heard: "phony Beatlemania has bitten the dust." > Oh, yeah, Beatlemania, that scourge of civilization, right up there with > Reagan's illegal mining of the Nicaragua harbors. But, oh, how Joe S sings > the line with SUCH conviction that you just gotta believe! Well, maybe not. > . . > > > I am so bad. Please don't spank me! It's all in the spirit of punk, okay? > > > -m > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 17:56:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jane Sprague Subject: Re: Interesting books of 2002? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable kari edwards, _a day in the life of p._(subpress) Harryette Mullen, _Sleeping with the Dictionary_ (UC Press) Barbara Guest ,_Miniatures and Other Poems_(Wesleyan) Ammiel Alcalay, _From Among the Warring Factions_ (Beyond Baroque) eds. Juliana Spahr & Claudia Rankine , _American Women Poets in the 21st = Century_ (Wesleyan) eds. Laura Hinton & Cynthia Hogue, _We Who Love to Be Astonished_ (U = Alabama) Hoa Nguyen, _Your Ancient See Through_ (subpress) Cathy Park Hong, _Translating Mo'um_ (Hanging Loose) 2001 but worth reading: Lisa Linn Kanae, _Sista Tongue_ (Tinfish) --JS ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 14:57:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: The Brass Bark of Spring Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii seems. it minding all machines and machines minding tending machines leaf-curling toes, the koran unclear arsenal, as grit from our tongues glossing and sun spattered like bodily fluids are counterproduct forest. and You seems. have You your have mind your on mind it machines, crawled machines, down crawled the furrow bark, the brass bark, spring the Korean unclear arsenal, as Secretary of State Colin L. Powell and sun spattered like bodily fluids are counterproduct. their damned hats it was a "sensuous manipulation" He acknowledged on the ABC News program "This Week" their damned hats the Clinton administration had their damned hats woods he called "a declaratory policy" their damned hats if North Korea began to reactivate its unclear facilities at Yongbyon, the country's math koran nuclear arsenal, as grit from our tongues glossing and other officials insisted their damned hats it would be counterproduct to set deadlines for North Korea to meet American demands or make threats to take military action. the koran unclear arsenal, as Secretary of State Colin L. Powell and sun spattered like bodily fluids are counterproduct to set the jaws of life for North Korea to meet American demands or make threats to sex the lessons out. forest and You seems. have You your have mind your on mind it machines to set deadlines for North Korea to meet American demands or make threats to sex the lessons out. we cry for our brethren now from a longstanding declaration by the United States that it would not tolerate crawled machines, down crawled the furrow bark, the brass bark spring 2002/12/30 16:49:16 ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 17:48:46 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Clements Subject: Re: Interesting books of 2002? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A couple that are more than worth reading: Jono Schneider, _...But I Could Not Speak..._ (O Books, 1-882022-45-9) Eileen Tabios, _Reproductions of the Empty Flagpole_ (Marsh Hawk, 0-9713332-8-9) -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Andrew Rathmann Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 2:38 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Interesting books of 2002? I'm sure I missed some interesting books in '02, and perhaps others would also like to fill in a few gaps. Any recommendations? Here are some of the titles that came my way: Philip Jenks, _On the Cave You Live In_ (Flood) Jennifer Moxley, _The Sense Record and Other Poems_ (Edge) Mark Salerno, _Method_ (Figures) Heather Fuller, _Dovecote_ (Edge) Robert Lunday, _Mad Flights_ (Ashland) Frank Bidart, _Music Like Dirt_ (Sarabande) Yang Lian, _Yi_ (Green Integer) Peter Gizzi, _Revival_ (Phylum) Also, the summer issue of _Chicago Review_: _New Writing in German_ Thanks. Andy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 15:28:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: Yeah, yeah, oh-yeah, Just Dropped In MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > And what does it mean to be a fully-realized professional ...I would > question the term itself as a misnomer of sorts..as if there is a state > to go.. or a place to be, or a standard to be able to stratify.. again > that would be what i was talking about.. I think some of the most fully > realized professionals have been some of the most dangerous... there is > no standard.. standers are power... kari, point taken; "fully realized" not the best locution probably, since who ever is etc. I guess I was trying to say that there's a stage at which one becomes accountable for knowing the field, and not being ignorant of someone as obvious as Butler; and that grad students may get to that stage only late in the process. Far worse are the stories I've heard of people who teach contemporary poetry and know nothing of the avant side. Something else I wanted to respond to is the idea that "in most cases you cannot do a doctoral thesis in poetic prose." In a sense this is a constraint -- there were days before the rise of MFA programs when one could submit creative work in lieu of criticism, at least at the MA level (probably not doctoral) -- but w/ the institutionalization of creative writing (in the political not clinical sense, to quote Ron S.) there's assumed to be a place to go if you want to write poetically, and the Ph.D. in lit ain't it. Of course what you're probably talking about is hybrid poeto-critical writing, which I agree is an especially tough institutional fit. I could imagine that someone might pull off a thesis under the direction of one of the academic Language poets or the critics who do work on avant poetry that was along the lines of, say, Susan Howe's book on Dickinson, but it would be somewhat risky, given that part of a thesis director's job is to ensure that their charge is employable, thus one must anticipate a larger & less "sympathetic" audience. In which context subject matter would be much less an issue than conforming to one of several stylistic paradigms. Best, Damian <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:43:38 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jesse glass Subject: Filmgruppe Chaos: Maldoror, Faites vos jeux MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Filmgruppe Chaos has produced two incredible, full-length movies through = international, net-wide collaborations with writers, producers, = animators, actors, musicians, etc. =20 Maldoror-an inspiring realization of the text. This is a compilation = from 12 independent film groups/artists in Germany and the U.K. Each = group took one chapter of Maldoror.=20 Faites vos jeux. A European examination of these Bush-driven, = gun-toting, post-911 days. Both have garnered great reviews from the Observor and other newspapers = and mags. We're currently seeking places in Canada, U.S., U.K. and elsewhere to = show the films. Both films are available as videos. If anyone is interested, or has any leads, please back-channel me. Jess ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:45:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jesse glass Subject: Happy New Year MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's already New Year's eve here in the land of the rising sun. Jess ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 18:57:38 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Happy New Year MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit But its more New year's Eve in NZ as its only 5 hours to 2004 Cheers, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jesse glass" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 11:45 AM Subject: Happy New Year It's already New Year's eve here in the land of the rising sun. Jess ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 03:22:04 -0500 Reply-To: Millie Niss on eathlink Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss on eathlink Subject: my answer to why you cannot wrote a cat poem Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Our Honeymoon in a Havana Cabana (and surrounding fields) [1937 edition] by Melvin Eschatto-Smith,=20 Official Feline Pest Control Officer, The Roman Sewers (Employed by the Department of Tourism and Travel of Italy, Rome) Vivo Il Duce! estimable potatoes,=20 strewn moral cabbages is it you I have sought all these years =20 in the=20 dentist's chair of existence,=20 tumultuous, fair &=20 feline ? the cat scratches behind its ears lamentable petunias predatory pittances, earned flogging=20 hermaphrodite cats for show=20 in Pretoria these are the flowers of our romance! [ed: topic allowed by special permission-- emotions excluded in general of course=20 from the verse we publish in our journal, per verse] the bookstore=20 cat meows and jumps=20 on=20 to =20 a pile=20 of per versees,=20 piled precariously=20 on top of Skin magazine the owner,=20 a transsexual spinster in widow's weeds (don't ask!) frowns, cat-faced,=20 with the=20 (fore)skin of an aging = man=20 who has = had too much estrogen=20 and=20 not enough=20 sleeeeeeeeeeeeep........ scolds the cat it meows melancholically and=20 resumes reading the po-em now open=20 on the floor and drooling off of a copy of per verse: hidden whore-bills in the dresser=20 found by dressing wife at breakfast causes kerfuffle in the household "now I know why my checks bounced!" "she was pretty=20 she was catty she had whiskers real of course pointy ears a bushy tail which she would=20 wiggle fetchingly how could a cat like me=20 resist the charms of such a one? I met her on the up-and-up she was the keynote speaker, (nay, heh heh it wasn't speaking she took pay to do at our=20 consortium...." "Ah yes-- at the Conference for Professional Pimps where there was a pet cat in every room it being held at a cathouse, you recall -- nothing but meows when I'd ring you up to ask of your success with your poster presentation: "Retaining staff: Three Legal Methods, Compared Statistically Against The Usual Methodologies" -- depending on the popularity of which you'd be invited to join a firm or else have to strike out on your own, a lone cat in the wilderness, subject to police scrutiny arrest and even=20 cattail whips to make you confess your=20 nefarious=20 plots quel catastrophe! for my=20 lovey man,=20 mon petit chat, =20 mon meilleur client caribou=20 in=20 Manhattan couldn't be more=20 rarified and sumptuous than this divorce, stated=20 the lawyers competing=20 for fees residue of=20 resin of=20 cat-earwax-stew the pine trees grew and the wheat waved, my sombrero smack on my head with the cat on top, senhora, mi amiga, let's get hooked today! the cat can be our witness... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 01:10:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AUGUST HIGHLAND Subject: IMMENSO #0001 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IMMENSO #0001 presidency told preceded blast presidency tells told preceded blast presidency tells told preceded blast presidency tells told preceded blast tells declared declared declared finely lacquered ornaments explained declared finely lacquered ornaments explained tiptoe finely lacquered ornaments explained tiptoe finely lacquered ornaments explained tiptoe explained tiptoe explained explained explained paid earning rated paid earning rated paid earning rated cried fellowship paid earning rated newspapers carried accounts cried fellowship newspapers carried accounts cried fellowship newspapers carried accounts cried fellowship U S expeditionary warfare newspapers carried accounts U S expeditionary warfare reckon presented U S expeditionary warfare interests reckon presented U S expeditionary warfare wrapping interests reckon presented glanced pages ADF wrapping interests reckon presented glanced pages ADF wrapping interests glanced pages fighting ADF wrapping glanced pages fighting ADF fighting fighting violently addicted insufficient ecology violently addicted insufficient ecology helped violently addicted insufficient ecology doorway helped violently addicted insufficient ecology doorway helped doorway helped nuclear emerging non-nuclear threats NATO wide doorway principles ensuring selectivity U S military nuclear emerging non-nuclear threats NATO wide principles ensuring selectivity U S military nuclear emerging non-nuclear threats NATO wide compassion famed principles ensuring selectivity U S military nuclear emerging non-nuclear threats headed NATO wide compassion famed principles ensuring selectivity U S military gloriously obedience expressed headed compassion famed gloriously obedience expressed headed compassion famed patients anti activists promises gloriously obedience expressed headed patients anti activists promises gloriously obedience expressed arborists researchers surgeons patients anti activists promises arborists researchers surgeons patients anti activists promises arborists researchers surgeons told arborists researchers surgeons told told applications woolly told applications woolly applications woolly applications woolly tertulia guests told gripping vagina tertulia guests told gripping vagina tertulia guests told gripping vagina tertulia guests told gripping vagina officials? officials officials? officials insisted guy officials? officials insisted guy officials? officials blamed orgasmic intensity insisted guy blamed orgasmic intensity insisted guy blamed orgasmic intensity forcefully entered stopped pubic pressed blamed orgasmic intensity forcefully entered stopped pubic pressed forcefully entered stopped pubic pressed forcefully entered stopped pubic pressed engrossed ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 01:12:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AUGUST HIGHLAND Subject: IMMENSO #0002 Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, o-o@konf.lt, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, owner-realpoetik@scn.org, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, syndicate@anart.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IMMENSO #0002 wilderness concealed descended wilderness billion tons trapping concealed descended wilderness billion tons trapping concealed descended wilderness billion tons trapping concealed descended billion tons trapping pelts camp baskets ceramic pots sledges toboggans pelts camp baskets ceramic pots sledges toboggans pelts camp baskets ceramic pots sledges toboggans seriously damaged pelts camp baskets ceramic pots sledges toboggans seriously damaged projectiles SCUD seriously damaged projectiles SCUD seriously damaged projectiles SCUD projectiles SCUD probe embraced ninth dropout commonly reasons elements consumables probe embraced ninth dropout commonly reasons elements consumables probe embraced ninth dropout commonly reasons elements consumables probe embraced ninth dropout commonly attained reasons elements consumables attained attained asked attained wrapping asked O dubious wrapping asked dubious wrapping asked cum seeping kept sucking fell dubious wrapping cum seeping kept sucking fell dubious cum seeping kept sucking fell cum seeping kept sucking fell poems professors liked banking entered poems professors liked banking entered reproductive coupled poems professors liked sneaky followed banking entered reproductive coupled poems professors liked sneaky followed banking entered reproductive coupled sneaky followed reproductive coupled organizing coalition sneaky followed hipster stylish alienation irresistible bra eating undressed eyes organizing coalition hipster stylish alienation irresistible bra eating undressed eyes organizing coalition hipster stylish alienation irresistible policies followed bra eating undressed eyes organizing coalition strangely maddened shots wide hipster stylish alienation irresistible policies followed bra eating undressed eyes considered taxicab strangely maddened shots wide policies followed considered taxicab strangely maddened shots wide policies followed considered taxicab strangely maddened shots wide considered taxicab indisposed rebuff cooling draught cured ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 09:04:14 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Microsoft e-book reader format hacked MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The ability to copy protect e-books in the Microsoft e-book format has been compromised: http://www.pocketpcaddict.com/article.php?sid=937 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:40:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: Recently on the secret blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII No not my dreadful egomaniacal ravings -- I'll never advertise those again -- but my resusciated poetrycam... On Finally Reading Gerald Burns's Shorter Poems . Trotsky as inadvertent architect of Stalinism, and hanging out with you . Long pauses between cakes . Heavy joy http://millionpoems.blogspot.com/ Jordan Davis ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 12:29:13 -0500 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Brian Stefans [arras.net]" Subject: Free Space Comix: The Blog Comments: To: "Stefans, Brian" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit My blog's lonely... love my blog... happy new year! BRAND NEW on the blog: Suzanne Dathe, Grenoble, France – Can We Win? (On Carol Mirakove's Poetry) http://www.arras.net/weblog/ BRAND OLD on the blog: Tim Davis, Dailies (longish review from Tripwire) http://www.arras.net/weblog/000019.html Further Adventures of Michey Mouse (on the Vaneigem series and the New York Times) http://www.arras.net/weblog/000030.html And then went down to the blog... (Poetry Project column on internet poetry) http://www.arras.net/weblog/000035.html BKS and Alan Licht .mp3 at ubu.com (introduction) http://www.arras.net/weblog/000037.html Border Comedies (spontaneous thinking) http://www.arras.net/weblog/000038.html /ubu is live!!! (introduction) http://www.arras.net/weblog/000039.html /ubu is live!!! part deux (individual introductions) http://www.arras.net/weblog/000041.html Alice Notley, Disobedience (from the Boston Review) http://www.arras.net/weblog/000042.html It Turns Out I Don't Mention Your Name In Them, But The Woman In Them Is You (poems) http://www.arras.net/weblog/000043.html ____ A R R A S: new media poetry and poetics http://www.arras.net Hinka cumfae cashore canfeh, Ahl hityi oar hied 'caw taughtie! "Do you think just because I come from Carronshore I cannot fight? I shall hit you over the head with a cold potatoe." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 12:40:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Blair Seagram Subject: Goya's LA.....Bougereau's NY...Sebald's Austerlitz In-Reply-To: <200212302103.18teyD12c3NZFjX0@robin> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" thank you allen and harry. ordered a copy from abebooks.com. blair seagram graffica 356 west 23rd street new york, ny 10011 212.675.8628 www.graffica.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 12:54:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: New In 2002 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Nora Ligorano and Marshall Reese with Gerrit Lansing-"Turning Leaves of Mind"- Granary Books- "Trance be induced...by glance at page of words" Kiosk-no.1-edited by Gordon Hadfield, Sashs Steenson, and Kyle Schlesinger "Pass beyond the Bounds prescribed..." Kristen Gallagher Rodrigo Toscano- The Disparities- Green Integer-"A (quote) proper sense of time narrates us..." Drew Gardner-Sugar Pill- Krupskaya- "a kind of relief and climbing out of shivered confrontation" Mac Wellman-Miniature-Roof-"the Law stands outside the law" "The Essential Kathy Acker"-Grove Press- edited by Amy Scholder and Dennis Cooper-(from "The Burning Bombing of America: The Destruction of the U.S.") "We desire a revolution in New York I'm here alone always alone Mick Jagger jerks off I shoulder my pistols..." Keith and Rosemarie Waldrop -Ceci N'est Pas Keith Ceci N'est Pas Rosemarie- Burning Deck- "I have always thought of poetry as a way of building a world....After the bombing nobody would consider taking shelter in a cellar. Rather catch it in the open and a quick death." Daniel Davidson -Culture- Krupskaya-"I think the constant "ticking" of the plastic heart valve- which you could sometimes hear outdoors among city noise-gave Dan a real sense of urgency..."(from the afterword by Gary Sullivan) Robert Fitterman -Metropolis 16-29- Coach House-"I woke up this surface and I began...dreaming discrepancy's essence" Critical Inquiry-Fall 2002 Volume 29 number 1, ppp 139-185--Barrett Watten-"The Turn to Language and the 1960's"- "The following is a thought experiment that tries to show, using visual was well as textual evidence, how the turn to language that took place in experimental poetry in the 1970's continues the politics of the 1960's by other means." "In the American Tree" edited by Ron Silliman, 2cd printing, the National Poetry Foundation-"...in the back room of the Gotham Book Mart, where eventually to my great good fortune and the salvation of my eternal soul I came across Alan Davies' magazine "Oculist Witnesses" and "This", Barrett Watten's magazine" (from Michael Gottlieb's updated bio note) Sheila E. Murphy-The Stuttering of Wings- Stride-"Outside resides a rigor as specific as allowance will fulfll a tremor..." David Shapiro-"A Burning Interior"_The Overlook Press-"Sarcophagus for the slave of writing crying help in all languages for wild sound for the twins of frozen speech" Ribot 8- edited by Standard Schaefer and Paul Vangelisti- The Lazy Issue- "I've got a fat ass from doing everything I've done I almost didn't write this poem as a matter of fact as I get fatter I find it more and more difficult to accomplish any act that doesn't rest on what's behind..."(from Lazy by Douglas Messerli) Chain number 9- The Dialogue Issue- edited by Juliana Spahr and Jena Osman, Cecelia Vicuna and Thalia Field "My sense is that synaesthetics and negative capability are related...Today. as bombs continue to drop in Afghanistan...my question is how to expand the practical poetics..." (Jen Hofer, from a dialogue with Patrick Durgin) "Telling It Slant"- Mark Wallace and Steven Marks, editors, The University of Alabama Press- "Using pieces by Joan Retallack, Rosemarie Waldrop and Theresa Hak Kyung Cha as my leading texts...I will be asking what kind of implications they may have on the performativity of textual identity..." (from "Writing at the Crossroads of Languages" by Caroline Bergvall) Steve McCaffery-"Bouma Shapes"-Zasterle- "Love and grammar, love and grammar...Go together like a cough and stammer" Also, Jordan Davis published an issue of his magazine this year which was terrific, but I can't find it anywhere. Can someone help me with the specifics including the name of the magazine, and maybe some cool quotes? Nick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 13:25:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Another Two New in 2002 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hannah Weiner -Page- Roof "obey all your orders ol instinct should be at the top of the page" Charles Bernstein with David Antin -A Conversation with David Antin- Granary- (David) "Now is this really different from improvisatory writing- say by Clark Coolidge?...We probably have a great deal in common, though I'm not sure Clark would see it..." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 13:39:06 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: FAVORITE BOOKS THAT CAME OUT IN 2002 (WHAT A GREAT YEAR FOR POETRY!!!!!!!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "If this is divinity, make the most of it." --Cid Corman AFTER SCHOOL SESSIONS, Brett Evans A DOCTRINE OF SIGNATURES, Jenn McCreary DOVECOTE, Heather Fuller THE EFFACEMENTS, Chris McCreary THE FEMALE SKELETON MAKES HER DEBUT, Brenda Bordofsky MINIMA ST., Joseph Massey THE NEW NORMALCY, John Coletti NEW ORLEANS XMAS, Greg Fuchs SKIES, Eileen Myles SOUVENIR WINNER, Macgregor Card YES, YOU ARE A REVOLUTIONARY!, Sparrow YOUR ANCIENT SEE THROUGH, Hoa Nguyen ZERO STAR HOTEL, Anselm Berrigan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:58:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Strang Subject: pUnKx aND WrItInG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Though at the time I was more attracted to bands other than the Clash (The Germs, Black Flag, The Dead Kennedys, etc.), punk presented an alternative to the values that surrounded me at the time I was growing up in Southern California, the 70's and early 80's (ugh! I think you can all imagine what those values are, no?). Punk ideas--of thinking for oneself, doing it for oneself, anarchism, etc.-- helped to give me a consciousness and led me toward a thinking life and toward experimentation in the arts (I first heard the word "anarchy" in a punk song). Punk's greatest musical achievement wasn't, in my opinion, The Clash or The Sex Pistols but was opening the door to other possibilities in rock music and other arts and, in the process, killing off the big-money arena rock of the 70's. And some of the music that followed--bands like Sonic Youth (who have moved far beyond "Confusion is Sex" into increasingly complex experimentation)--were, I thought more interesting. In its early days, punk had an unpredictable, amateurish feel to it that was lost by the time The Clash were rocking the Casbah. And when we talk of punk, we're talking, I think, more about values than a particular aesthetic--i.e. safety pins, mohawks, etc. I don't want to sentimentalize it; there were a lot of stupid things going on within punk as well--skinheads come to mind (and seventh-graders carving swastikas into their arms with razor blades). But it was an opening of possibilities in American culture, of independence and experimentation (albiet underground). Kill yer idols, B. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:03:07 -0500 Reply-To: penwaves@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Lewis Subject: Re: punk &writing A very strong link between punk & writing was the "zine scene" that flourished in the days just before the appearence of personal computers & the internet. Most were xeroxed (usually at work, with the most famous being "Between C & D"--which was printed on tractor paper on a dot matrix printer & sealed up in a bag. But there were HUNDREDS of these pubs & stores poped up like Manhattan's SOHOZAT, Canal & W. Broadway, to sell them. And having hosted readings in Jersey in that period, that attitude of punk affected many youg poets, producing furious poetry that kept you awake during long open readings in the downtown scene, many poets were involved in punk bands. Barb Barg led teh Avant Squares. Susie Timons was in numerous groups, as was ElinorNauen. And there was always the hovering presence of Jim Carroll, Richard Hell & Patti Smith Joel Lewis ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 13:18:37 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: pUnKx aND WrItInG In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit no one has mentioned the amazing minutemen & the ill-fated d boon. they were musician's musicians which in the punk world was rare. oh yea another all time fav was flipper. god knows whatever happened to them. mIEKAL On Tuesday, December 31, 2002, at 12:58 PM, Brian Strang wrote: > Though at the time I was more attracted to bands other than the Clash > (The Germs, Black Flag, The Dead Kennedys, etc.), ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 16:10:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jane Sprague Subject: Re: pUnKx aND WrItInG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mIEKAL, glad you mentioned minutemen- does anyone remember a band w/Mike Watt and a woman named Kyra- (Kira? cannot remember what band for her..) called "Dos"?? (as in Espanol for two) had an indie tape back in the late 80's, early 90's, lost it, can't seem to find any evidence of their incredible music.. if anyone knows of a source...? also on SoCal scene- X and Samoans J. ----- Original Message ----- From: "mIEKAL aND" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 2:18 PM Subject: Re: pUnKx aND WrItInG > no one has mentioned the amazing minutemen & the ill-fated d boon. > they were musician's musicians which in the punk world was rare. oh > yea another all time fav was flipper. god knows whatever happened to > them. > > mIEKAL > > > On Tuesday, December 31, 2002, at 12:58 PM, Brian Strang wrote: > > > Though at the time I was more attracted to bands other than the Clash > > (The Germs, Black Flag, The Dead Kennedys, etc.), > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 16:17:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: pUnKx aND WrItInG In-Reply-To: <002101c2b111$158b5b50$3fe296d1@Jane> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Minutemen were super as was Watt's next band, fIREHOSE. I don't know why, but I get weekly emails from Watt, who still plays. J, try Watt at http://www.hootpage.com/ --Ak, listening to Strummer and the Mescaleros -- for those of you who haven't heard Global A Go-Go, you must (if you are a Strummer fan, of course) At 04:10 PM 12/31/2002 -0500, you wrote: >mIEKAL, > >glad you mentioned minutemen- does anyone remember a band w/Mike Watt and a >woman named Kyra- (Kira? cannot remember what band for her..) called "Dos"?? >(as in Espanol for two) >had an indie tape back in the late 80's, early 90's, lost it, can't seem to >find any evidence of their incredible music.. >if anyone knows of a source...? > >also on SoCal scene- X and Samoans > >J. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "mIEKAL aND" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 2:18 PM >Subject: Re: pUnKx aND WrItInG > > > > no one has mentioned the amazing minutemen & the ill-fated d boon. > > they were musician's musicians which in the punk world was rare. oh > > yea another all time fav was flipper. god knows whatever happened to > > them. > > > > mIEKAL > > > > > > On Tuesday, December 31, 2002, at 12:58 PM, Brian Strang wrote: > > > > > Though at the time I was more attracted to bands other than the Clash > > > (The Germs, Black Flag, The Dead Kennedys, etc.), > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 17:13:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nada Gordon Subject: Re: pUnKx aND WrItInG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Here's some info on Flipper: http://www.geocities.com/fraxs37/flipper-main.html Will Shatter OD'd. (RIP) Bruce Loose got in a car accident that keeps him from performing. I believe that Ted Falconi and Steve depace went on to other bands. -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 17:23:38 -0500 Reply-To: devineni@rattapallax.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ram Devineni Organization: Rattapallax Subject: World Poetry Day Anthology and 2003 programs In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Friends: I am happy to announce the release of the "2002 World Poetry Day Anthology." The collection features the poets who have read their work on UNESCO's World Poetry Day from around the world. If you have participated and your poem is not in the collection or there is an error with the poem, please email me at info@dialoguepoetry.org before January 15, 2003. The anthology is available as an Adobe PDF file at http://www.dialoguepoetry.org/anthology_2002.htm If you would like to participate in the programs in 2003, please review the guidelines at http://www.dialoguepoetry.org/poetryweek.htm . A PDF letter from UNESCO is available at http://www.dialoguepoetry.org/press/unesco_letter.pdf . Also, there is a major poetry writing competition for High School (upper grade school) students around the world: "World Poetry Day Writing Competition." The First Prize winner will get $500 and be published in Rattapallax magazine. The winner will also receive a gift package of books and certificate of participation. In addition, there are numerous other competitions and prizes and information is available on our website at http://www.dialoguepoetry.org/writing.htm If you have any questions, I can be reached by email at info@dialoguepoetry.org or 1-212-560-7459 Thank You, Ram Devineni & Larry Jaffe p.s. the poems from the Poetry on the Peaks events are also included in the collection. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 16:13:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: pUnKx aND WrItInG In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Where do The Replacements fit in for people on this list? Are they an important band for poets here? I caught on to them late, maybe partly from time spent in Minneapolis even when they were no more, but they seem pretty important to American punk/pre-grunge. charles ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 18:11:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: pUnKx aND WrItInG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Any idea what happened to Falco? GG :)~ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nada Gordon" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 5:13 PM Subject: Re: pUnKx aND WrItInG > Here's some info on Flipper: > > http://www.geocities.com/fraxs37/flipper-main.html > > > Will Shatter OD'd. (RIP) > > Bruce Loose got in a car accident that keeps him from performing. > > I believe that Ted Falconi and Steve depace went on to other bands. > -- > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 21:03:43 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Po R Us ......A HAPPY NEW YEAR..... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 18:59:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Interesting books of 2002? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >I'm sure I missed some interesting books in '02, and perhaps others >would also like to fill in a few gaps. Any recommendations? Here >are some of the titles that came my way: > >Philip Jenks, _On the Cave You Live In_ (Flood) >Jennifer Moxley, _The Sense Record and Other Poems_ (Edge) >Mark Salerno, _Method_ (Figures) >Heather Fuller, _Dovecote_ (Edge) >Robert Lunday, _Mad Flights_ (Ashland) >Frank Bidart, _Music Like Dirt_ (Sarabande) >Yang Lian, _Yi_ (Green Integer) >Peter Gizzi, _Revival_ (Phylum) > >Also, the summer issue of _Chicago Review_: _New Writing in German_ > >Thanks. > >Andy + Meanwhile, the collected essays of bpNichol, ed. by Roy Miki, Talonbooks. -- George Bowering A one-hit wonder Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:31:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII the fires are starting - we can't make it back to the mainland - they're not taking our money or credit here - friends feed friends - we're all going to die soon anyway - in the distance the ruins produce black clouds - they're turning - they're coming across - we'd need two whole bridges - we'd have to cross the island - that isn't possible - we'd die - there are too many hotspots - this is a message - one of the last - you're coming across - you're coming across it - from the empty world - we're cornered here - everything poisonous - from the future to the past - from nowhere to anywhere - we won't be able to hear from you - there's no need to say anything - write anything - you might think of us - radio's gone - too much static - no tv - nothing like that - same thing with the cellphones - burned-out aerials - the water's already turning - the world's curled with pollution - furious particles - we'll make up stories for a while - we'll leave our names on the walls - you'll be the walls - ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 19:40:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: MIRROR DAMAGE In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit MIRROR DAMAGE the last great creative misstep of 2002 MMMM IIIII RRRR RRRR OOOOO R R M M I I R R R R O R R M M I I R R R R O RR RR MMMMM I I RRRRR RRRRR O RR RR MM I I RR RR O R R R M M I I R R R R O R R M M I I R R R R O R R M M IIIII R R R R OOOOO R R DLLLL HHHHH NPPPR APPPP NNNNN PEEEQ L L H H R R P P H N H Q Q L L HAA H R R P P H N H QP PQ LLLLL H H RPPPR PPPPP H N H QP PQ DDDLL H H NNNRR AA PP HHNHH Q P Q L L H H N P R AAPAP H N H Q Q L L H H R NP AP P HNH Q Q LDDDL HHHHH P N P P P NNNNN PEEEQ EKKKK GGGGG PNNNQ ANNNO MLLLM NFFFO J K G G Q Q O O H L H O O J K GAA G Q Q O O H L H ON NO JJJJK G G QNNNQ ONONO H L H ON NO EEEKK G G PPPQQ AA OO HHMHH O N O J K G G P N Q AANAO H L H O O J K G G Q PN AN O HLH O O KEEEK GGGGG N P N O O LLMLL NFFFO EJJJJ GGGGF QMMMQ AMMMM MKKKM MFFFN I J G G Q Q M M I K I N N I J GAA G Q Q M M I K I NM MN IIIIJ F G QMMMQ MMMMM I K I NM MN EEEJJ F G QQQQQ AA MM IIMII N M N I J F G Q M Q AAMAM I K I N N I J G G Q QM AM M IKI N N JEEEJ FGGGF M Q M M M KKMKK MFFFN FIIII FFFFE RKKKP AKKKK LIIIL KGGGM H I F F P P K K J I J M M H I FAA F P P K K J I J MK KM HHHHI E F PKKKP KKKKK J I J MK KM FFFII E F RRRPP AA KK JJLJJ M K M H I E F R K P AAKAK J I J M M H I F F P RK AK K JIJ M M IFFFI EFFFE K R K K K IILII KGGGM FIIII EEEEE SIIIP AIIIJ KHHHK IGGGL G I E E P P J J J H J L L G I EAA E P P J J J H J LI IL GGGGI E E PIIIP JIJIJ J H J LI IL FFFII E E SSSPP AA JJ JJKJJ L I L G I E E S I P AAIAJ J H J L L G I E E P SI AI J JHJ L L IFFFI EEEEE I S I J J HHKHH IGGGL FHHHH DDDDD UGGGO BGGGH JFFFJ GHHHJ E H D D O O H H K F K J J E H DBB D O O H H K F K JG GJ EEEEH D D OGGGO HGHGH K F K JG GJ FFFHH D D UUUOO BB HH KKJKK J G J E H D D U G O BBGBH K F K J J E H D D O UG BG H KFK J J HFFFH DDDDD G U G H H FFJFF GHHHJ GGGGG CCCCC VEEEO BEEEF IEEEI EHHHI D G C C O O F F L E L I I D G CBB C O O F F L E L IE EI DDDDG C C OEEEO FEFEF L E L IE EI GGGGG C C VVVOO BB FF LLILL I E I D G C C V E O BBEBF L E L I I D G C C O VE BE F LEL I I GGGGG CCCCC E V E F F EEIEE EHHHI GFFFF CCCCB WDDDN BDDDD ICCCI DIIIH C F C C N N D D M C M H H C F CBB C N N D D M C M HD DH CCCCF B C NDDDN DDDDD M C M HD DH GGGFF B C WWWNN BB DD MMIMM H D H C F B C W D N BBDBD M C M H H C F C C N WD BD D MCM H H FGGGF BCCCB D W D D D CCICC DIIIH HEEEE BBBBA YBBBN BBBBC HBBBH BIIIF A E B B N N C C M B M F F A E BBB B N N C C M B M FB BF AAAAE A B NBBBN CBCBC M B M FB BF HHHEE A B YYYNN BB CC MMHMM F B F A E A B Y B N BBBBC M B M F F A E B B N YB BB C MBM F F EHHHE ABBBA B Y B C C BBHBB BIIIF DDDDD AAAA M M A A G G EEEE D A A M M A A G G E E D AAA A M M A A G G E E D A M M A A A G G E E DDDDD A MMMMM AA AA GGGGG E E D A M M AA AA G G E E D A A M M A A G G E E DDDDD AAA M A A G EEEE -m