========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 00:19:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: GENYA TUROVSKAYA AND MARK LAMOUREUX AT CASPER JONES MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII GENYA TUROVSKAYA AND MARK LAMOUREUX AT CASPER JONES CASPER JONES CAFE READING/MEDIA SERIES PLEASE COME! (Maybe some House Band music, we might be sick!) MONDAY MARCH 8, 7:00 PM, AT CASPER JONES CAFE IN BROOKLYN (see below for details) ********************************************************************** GENYA TUROVSKAYA Genya Turovskaya is originally from Kiev, Ukraine. She is a poet and translator currently living in New York. She is the author of Calendar (Ugly Duckling Presse 2002). Her poetry and translations from Russian have appeared and are forthcoming in 6x6, the Germ, and Aufgabe among others. She is currently pursuing an MFA in writing at Bard College. MARK LAMOUREUX "Mark Lamoureux's work has appeared in JUBILAT, LUNGFUL!, CARVE, FULCRUM, ART NEW ENGLAND and others. His chapbook, 29 CHEESEBURGERS was released by Boston's Pressed Wafer in the winter of 2004. Another chapbook, CITY/TEMPLE was published by Ugly Duckling Presse in the Fall of 2003. He is the managing editor FULCRUM ANNUAL." ***************************************************************** Casper Jones House Cafe Bar Lounge 440 Bergen Street between 5th Ave. & Flatbush Ave. Parkslope, Brooklyn (718) 399-8741 take the Q train to 7th Ave or the 2/3 train to Bergen Street Contact Brenda Iijima or Alan Sondheim for further information. Brenda Iijima: yoyolabs@hotmail.com Alan Sondheim: sondheim@panix.com ___ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 00:20:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Cocoon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cocoon Have you ever felt were writing something other than what writing, that the was beside itself, couldn't ground it in any thing at all? This piece is a mess. If God exists, and I mean all sincerity, kill me now. That yesterday also It's an absurd belief lists of letters or numbers, [[a-b][A-B][0-9][-_.'",]] etc. make for interesting reading. Yesterday's incomprehensible, reworking installation log linux on this machine. The only interest all it's full install Fedora. And so what? section uncoded. Here's where I admit failure. I've been wringing everything could out so-called 'Internet Text' (a title hate; used when still child) over 10 years now. How often can have anything to say? anyone? milked just about every format think of. cauterized myself; philosophical content work, my real interest, lost among thousands pages nonsense. Meaning, value, good and evil - reside within human heart, require frameworks presence function. There nothing without framework. 500 AUTH not understood. new scholars rock has doubled pinnacleses atat four inches they tower above worldld cocodeine keeps headaches awayay cocontinuous life living hellll crcrawl crawlwl evevery day another headachehe eveverything's gone goingng heher composed inextricable detoursrs i had cat scan todayay some ideas origin her workrk fury twenty-six teethth stared laser guidemarksks worry opal whitelyly there might be 'something behind them'm' momonkey fly monk climb themem mymy body heated by iodinene shakuhachi needs reboring as lacquer slippeded onon tongue faint taste plumsms ththe egyptian book deadad motor roared aroundnd sky stumbles its feetet sound motherboard seems disconnecteded world totoday found shelleyey wewe are taking vet examination noduleses wewell, hell, but somewhat uncomfortablele _ treading water ___ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 00:23:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List In-Reply-To: <000001c3ff48$70774a20$1c290e18@attbi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII For myself I wish more people would post here - that it wouldn't be by and large announcements. I go only occasionally to blogs; I feel the space is too controlled in a sense, like window-shopping. I'd rather someone scream at me here. And I wish more people in fact would open themselves up here, that the list would be a place of vulnerability as well as advertisement. Alan http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm finger sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:30:49 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Bechtel Subject: Re: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm really tired right now. But also quite wired. I think it's a good thing - coffee at 11 pm, tired, wily, ready for transmission. -Brent ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 11:23 PM Subject: Re: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List > For myself I wish more people would post here - that it wouldn't be by and > large announcements. > > I go only occasionally to blogs; I feel the space is too controlled in a > sense, like window-shopping. I'd rather someone scream at me here. And I > wish more people in fact would open themselves up here, that the list > would be a place of vulnerability as well as advertisement. > > Alan > > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko > http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt > Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > finger sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 00:55:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Skinner Subject: Lyx Ish 1956-2004 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I had the privilege (luck, really, since the run-in was not planned) of meeting Lyx Ish, aka Elizabeth Was, in the course of my visit to Dreamtime Village last October. (It was, in fact, at the community-run school where mIEKAL and I had gone to meet Zon.) Rarely a more radiant and charismatic being have I met. Her energy was overwhelming, and her interest and warmth disarming. Not in the least casual. Alas, the meeting was all too short! This is shocking and saddening news. A tragic foreshortening. My heartfelt condolences go out to you and Zon, mIEKAL, to the community at Dreamtime Village and beyond. Thanks for sharing the poems, mIEKAL. And safe journey, Lyx Ish . . . I'll keep thinking of you. Jonathan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 06:38:31 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tim Peterson Subject: Re: start an argument on the Buffalo list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I agree, Alan. Thanks for saying this! Someone said to me recently that "the list is the Forum, the blogs are the Boutiques," and I really like that way of putting it. As someone who has an ambivalent relationship with blogging myself (I admit, I have a blog), it has been interesting to watch this whole process unfolding. In a way, it's almost like blogs have begun to re-regionalize (and de-center) the poetry community into more local communities, contrary to the notion that they might suddenly nomadize everything. For example, a lot of the bloggers and blog-readers I know in Boston only read blogs by their friends or people they know or have met personally. Best, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 11:23 PM Subject: Re: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List >For myself I wish more people would post here - that it wouldn't be by and >large announcements. > >I go only occasionally to blogs; I feel the space is too controlled in a >sense, like window-shopping. I'd rather someone scream at me here. And I >wish more people in fact would open themselves up here, that the list >would be a place of vulnerability as well as advertisement. > >Alan > >http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko >http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt >Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm >finger sondheim@panix.com _________________________________________________________________ Take off on a romantic weekend or a family adventure to these great U.S. locations. http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 01:15:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: Dante/Virgil - Narcissicism vs Classicism Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit And after reading both of them (Aeneid, Inferno) for a long time, one comes to realize why Marie De France (or, hell, even Lucretius) is such a necessary "corrective" ---------- >From: August Highland >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Dante/Virgil - Narcissicism vs Classicism >Date: Sun, Feb 29, 2004, 6:41 PM > > Dante's only contribution to literature is his language. But he localized > the subject of literature in the individual to the detriment to literature. > His teacher, Virgil is the truly great master. His subject was an Empire > and the making of History. But his character, Aeneas is just as powerless > without his mother as Dante is without Beatrice. Perhaps, Dante's real > model is Aeneas. Only instead of striving to reach his home on earth, he > strove to reach his home in heaven. > > > > Classicism (nano-feat) > > > > the size of shots so > of little girl of his > of little girl of his > of little girl of his > the size of shots so > Bunny Don't call > the size of shots so > the size of shots so > > smell whisky by then > over my tits and cunt > over my tits and cunt > over my tits and cunt > smell whisky by then > a hundred dollars Oh > smell whisky by then > smell whisky by then > > have it just as we > bedroom > bedroom > bedroom > have it just as we > wait until 6pm when > have it just as we > have it just as we > > Lisa was panting so > special if one had > special if one had > special if one had > Lisa was panting so > and it made her docile > Lisa was panting so > Lisa was panting so > > reskyin them chaps as > soft real jet albeit > soft real jet albeit > soft real jet albeit > reskyin them chaps as > dignified sensible > reskyin them chaps as > reskyin them chaps as > > press gang thank God > one end to another The > one end to another The > one end to another The > press gang thank God > more had missed if > press gang thank God > press gang thank God > > nipples caught > turnips and mangold > turnips and mangold > turnips and mangold > nipples caught > into her He knew his > nipples caught > nipples caught > > wait until 6pm when > a hundred dollars Oh > a hundred dollars Oh > a hundred dollars Oh > wait until 6pm when > Philip promised to do > wait until 6pm when > wait until 6pm when > > to his aunt and to > Molly is in orchard > Molly is in orchard > Molly is in orchard > to his aunt and to > allays for making the > to his aunt and to > to his aunt and to > > open crotch panties > before now it seemed > before now it seemed > before now it seemed > open crotch panties > place and probably > open crotch panties > open crotch panties > > you joined it no more > night with one of my > night with one of my > night with one of my > you joined it no more > call it day as if > you joined it no more > you joined it no more > > and No No I'm not > brought back the > brought back the > brought back the > and No No I'm not > he had been doing > and No No I'm not > and No No I'm not > > > :August_Highland:: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 03:10:14 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Lundwall Subject: News from Poetic Inhalation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the march issue of poetic inhalation is now up!... here's what's new on p.i.: recently featured poets of the week are: 3/01/04...scott malby 2/23/04...gary west 2/16/04...richard kostelanetz 2/09/04...allan graubard http://www.poeticinhalation.com/pi_featurepoet.html featured e-books: my body in nine parts by raymond federman banana baby by louise landes levi http://www.poeticinhalation.com/pi_featureartist.html tin lustre mobile: volume 3 issue 12 ...featuring poetry by brett dionysus, john grey, danika dinsmore, will martin, luke buckham, and michael dean odin pollock... illustrated by rokko spider... volume 3 issue 13 ...featuring poetry by simon perchick, steven stewart, margarita engle, shane allison, and david matthew barnes... illustrated by marta bravo and brian horrorwitz... http://www.poeticinhalation.com/tlm.html ...a new art gallery: kurt rostek's resolution http://www.poeticinhalation.com/kurtrostek_resolution.html ...new creative writings by an eclectic assortment of talent: darren francis' anything that flies joey madia's gavin rome’s in ice kirpal gordon's snow, ice & christ in a whitestone winter http://www.poeticinhalation.com/pi_creativewriting.html ...a new addition to the poetic artist series: richard denner's twenty-two all time favorites of bouvard pécuchet: the bright red bar held by a square bolt series http://www.poeticinhalation.com/pi_poeticartist.html ...ric carfagna reviews unhurried vision by michael rothenberg http://www.poeticinhalation.com/review_unhurriedvision.html ... and as always... new writings by the levitation writers: andrew lundwall, star smith, raymond federman, trupthi, and kenji siratori http://www.poeticinhalation.com/levitation.html poetic wishes to all... andrew and star :-) www.poeticinhalation.com home of the creative alliance www.poeticinhalation.com/creativealliance.html member of the independent press association www.indypress.org blog of up-to-the-minute p.i. news http://poeticinhalation.blogspot.com _________________________________________________________________ Say “good-bye” to spam, viruses and pop-ups with MSN Premium -- free trial offer! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200359ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 06:31:37 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gcycho1 Subject: Blue in Green Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Near South is currently seeking submissions for its spring issue. We're particularly interested in poems, minute fictions, one-act plays on the Miles Davis ensemble's "Blue in Green." Deadline is April 16th. Send submissions to address below or submit electronically to nearsouthmag@hotmail.com . Copies of our Winter issue are now available. It includes work by CLayton Eshleman, Michael Anania, Amy Fetzer Larakers, Richard Blevins, Sheila E. Murphy, Andrew Lundwall, kari edwards, D.J. Huppatz, Anne Winters, Sean Karns, Jon Roket, John M. Bennett, Jim Leftwich, Gyorgy Kostritskii, as well as a collaborative fiction project by the Chicago School of Social Surrealism (including Holly Crawford, Sarah Livingston, Alex Shakar, and Chris Stroffolino). Issues are $5 (***or $7 for the winter and spring issues together***) and can be ordered from Garin Cycholl, 3617 W. Belle Plaine, Chicago, IL 60618. Please make checks to "Garin Cycholl". ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:00:56 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Silliman's Blog Comments: To: WOM-PO , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, whpoets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT TOPICS: Bill Bathurst & Richard Brautigan - Deciding to stop The Philadelphia Progressive Poetry Calendar The Dissociated Writing Project Gender & the problem of the unmarked case (The Dreamers, continued) Bertolucci's The Dreamers - The film you make vs. the one you think you're making A memorial to Gil Ott Kathleen Fraser Coupling Categories Forced into Discreteness Kathleen Fraser Discrete Categories Forced into Coupling Joltin' Joe Ceravolo - Reinventing the NY School & surrealism & making it look easy John High's "Here" - Giving voice, avoid false closure Kathleen Fraser: Creating communities in writing Piseogs - Casting spells with Pattie McCarthy Pattie McCarthy's Verso - Pagination & interpretation http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 07:58:21 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Lyx Ish 1956-2004 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" this is exactly right. charismatic, radiant, warm, brilliant, outgoing, dynamic --a true multi-genius. lyx is a one of a kind being. i refuse the past tense as all these things must still be true. At 12:55 AM -0500 3/1/04, Jonathan Skinner wrote: >I had the privilege (luck, really, since the run-in was not planned) of >meeting Lyx Ish, aka Elizabeth Was, in the course of my visit to Dreamtime >Village last October. (It was, in fact, at the community-run school where >mIEKAL and I had gone to meet Zon.) > >Rarely a more radiant and charismatic being have I met. Her energy was >overwhelming, and her interest and warmth disarming. Not in the least >casual. Alas, the meeting was all too short! > >This is shocking and saddening news. A tragic foreshortening. My heartfelt >condolences go out to you and Zon, mIEKAL, to the community at Dreamtime >Village and beyond. > >Thanks for sharing the poems, mIEKAL. > >And safe journey, Lyx Ish . . . I'll keep thinking of you. > >Jonathan -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:51:18 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Pentagon To Mimic the CIA And Offer Direct News Service Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press Pentagon To Mimic the CIA And Offer Direct News Service: U.S. Military Wants To Show Lighter Side Of Occupation, Keep Rural Areas Of U.S. In The Dark So Enlistments Stay Up Until The Draft Goes Into Effect In January, 2005 by William Phnom Penh Elderly Up In Arms: Underground Group Responds To Greenspan Remarks With More Violence: Federal Reserve's Assault On Social Security, Wall Street Crime, Corporate Greed Foment Class Warfare by Yaso Adiodi The U.S. Killed Christ: The Gospel According To Matthew, Mark, Luke And Mel: In Film Christ Warns Kleptocracy And Wealthy To Lay Off Poor Or Else: U.S. Corporate Kleptocracy As Romans, Corrupt Local Elites As Pharisees And Castro, Aristide, Nkrumah, Mugabe, Chavez, Lumumba, Allende, Arbenz, Arevalo, Sukarno, Sandino, Aguinaldo et al As Christ: The Bible Says 'The Rapture' Is God's Trick For Getting the Self-Righteous Out of Everybody's Face: Live On Al-Jazeera TV, Christ Vows To Allah To Personally Take Up the Cause Of The World's Poor Against The U.S. Kleptocracy And Its Portly Proponents: CIA Tries To Murder Mugabe Before Lent: Roman Fresco Shows Pilate Sodomizing Christ In Arrogant Show Of Martial Power: Our Lord And Savior Strikes Ted Kopple Dead In Front Of His New York Brownstone: Gibson Bitter At His Father For Naming Him Melvin by Tomeass Equineass They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:46:58 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: THE KIDNAPPING OF ARISTIDE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII late breaking news... As this report (posted below) from Karen Wald, a U.S. journalist (based in both the U.S. and Cuba) demonstrates, Washington has carried out a coup in Haiti. Whatever the opinion about Aristide and his government, it is clear that the real issue is the violation of Haiti's sovereignty and self-determination by U.S. imperialism. The Bush regime openly undermined the Haitian economy, opposed the smallest reforms to address the injustices and inequalities and backed and supported the death squads and criminal gangs that rampaged across the country. It must also be emphasized that Canada's hands are not clean. Ottawa has not been some neutral and disinterested party: it has once again - under the guise of "peacekeeping"- participated in and subordinated itself to U.S. schemes to subjugate and supress the aspirations of the peoples and nations of Latin American & the Caribbean for national liberation and social justice. Let us be clear: the events in Haiti and the U.S. and Canadian interventions portend and point to objectives beyond that island. Haiti is a test case, staging ground and precedent to beging the process of eliminating the growing anti-imperialist struggles and movements throuhgout the region, particularly, Cuba and Venezuela. Isaac __________________________________________________________________________ The live reports on KPFA ( a radio station in California) and Democracy Now radio ( a U.S. station) have brought out the following: --Aristide was taken out of the Presidential palace at 5 am this morning in handcuffs after meeting there with the US ambassador James Foley. He was led out by 10 marines. One of his personal guard and an ABC tv cameraman have both confirmed that. -- Ira Kurzban, attorney for Republic of Haiti, has accused the US of kidnapping the Haitian president --the home of the Port-au-prince mayor was burned to the ground and that of another town's mayor was shot up, killing two inside (at least) --Tom Foley said last night that the death squads were on the way to kill Aristide and that the US wouldn't lift a finger to stop them... LISTEN TO KPFA.org or Democracy Now. The media is filled with the lies the Bush administration is putting out. NO ONE KNOWS WHERE ARISTIDE IS. HE DID NOT RESIGN. He and his wife said over and over they would never leave before the end of his term, on the radio, to Congressmen and friends - but that doesn't stop the media from continuing to repeat the most outrageous lies. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/xYTolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mobglobplan/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: mobglobplan-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:50:17 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: THE KIDNAPPING OF ARISTIDE In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Yes. I have a teaching asst this semester who used to work for Aristide's govt. she is in touch w/ all of this and told me the below last night. she is working hard to get the mainstream news to cover the real story. and to think i just gave NPR some $$ for their !@#$#! fund drive and they're reporting the wrong news. she thinks aristide might be en route to south africa, which would be fairly safe, but why would the US govt want him to be safe? i fear i fear. things are getting crazier and crazier. stagnant little denmark is beginning to look like a real alternative. At 10:46 AM -0330 3/1/04, Kevin Hehir wrote: >late breaking news... > >As this report (posted below) from Karen Wald, a U.S. journalist (based in >both the U.S. and Cuba) demonstrates, Washington has carried out a coup in >Haiti. Whatever the opinion about Aristide and his government, it is clear >that the real issue is the violation of Haiti's sovereignty and >self-determination by U.S. imperialism. The Bush regime openly undermined >the Haitian economy, opposed the smallest reforms to address the injustices >and inequalities and backed and supported the death squads and criminal >gangs that rampaged across the country. It must also be emphasized that >Canada's hands are not clean. Ottawa has not been some neutral and >disinterested party: it has once again - under the guise of "peacekeeping"- >participated in and subordinated itself to U.S. schemes to subjugate and >supress the aspirations of the peoples and nations of Latin American & the >Caribbean for national liberation and social justice. > >Let us be clear: the events in Haiti and the U.S. and Canadian interventions >portend and point to objectives beyond that island. Haiti is a test case, >staging ground and precedent to beging the process of eliminating the >growing anti-imperialist struggles and movements throuhgout the region, >particularly, Cuba and Venezuela. >Isaac >__________________________________________________________________________ > >The live reports on KPFA ( a radio station in California) and Democracy Now >radio ( a U.S. station) have brought out the >following: >--Aristide was taken out of the Presidential palace at 5 am this morning in >handcuffs after meeting there with the US ambassador James Foley. He was led >out by 10 marines. One of his personal guard and an ABC tv cameraman have >both confirmed that. >-- Ira Kurzban, attorney for Republic of Haiti, has accused the US of >kidnapping the Haitian president >--the home of the Port-au-prince mayor was burned to the ground and that of >another town's mayor was shot up, killing two inside (at least) >--Tom Foley said last night that the death squads were on the way to kill >Aristide and that the US wouldn't lift a finger to stop them... >LISTEN TO KPFA.org or Democracy Now. The media is filled with the lies the >Bush administration is putting out. NO ONE KNOWS WHERE ARISTIDE IS. HE DID >NOT RESIGN. He and his wife said over and over they would never leave before >the end of his term, on the radio, to Congressmen and friends - but that >doesn't stop the media from continuing to repeat the most outrageous lies. > >_________________________________________________________________ >The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail >http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca > > > >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> >Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark >Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. >http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 >http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/xYTolB/TM >---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > ><*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mobglobplan/ > ><*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > mobglobplan-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ><*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:51:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sina Queyras Subject: reading at Halcyon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable March 4th, Thursday, 7:30pm=20 Wordsmiths @ Halcyon 227 Smith Street (btwn Butler & Douglass) 718-260-WAXY The Spoken Word/Reading Series continues with Julie Sheehan, Sina = Queyras, & Jean Gallagher. JULIE SHEEHAN's poetry collection Thaw is the = second winner of the annual Poets Out Loud Prize for a book of poetry = published each year by Fordham University Press in coordination with = Fordham's Poets Out Loud program. Her work has been published in = Ploughshares, Paris Review, and Southwest Review. SINA QUEYRAS' first = collection Slip was published by ECW, 2001. Her poetry has appeared in = The Malahat Review and is forthcoming in Rattapallax, Descant and on = HOW2. She teaches at Rutgers. JEAN GALLAGHER'S poems have appeared in = _The Journal_, _Rhino_, _The Notre Dame Review_, and _Commonweal. She's = an associate professor of English at Polytechnic University in Brooklyn. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:05:08 -0500 Reply-To: Mike Kelleher Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Kelleher Organization: Just Buffalo Literary Center Subject: The Cruellest Month MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For those interested, here's the list I've compiled so far of April poetry dates. Thanks esp. to Peter Quartermain for some of the historical trivia. Feel free to keep sending them as the poster won't go to the printer until weeks' end. Best, Mike April Poetry Births, Deaths and Other Events 1 Bruce Andrews Edmond Rostand John Wilmot, Earl of Rochester 2 Ann Waldman August Heinrich Hoffman Edward Dorn 3 George Herbert Sir Robert Peel invites Wordsworth to be Poet Laureate; he accepts. 4 Edith Södergron Maya Angelou 5 Algernon Charles Swinburne Death of Allen Ginsberg 6 Jean Baptiste Rousseau Arrest of Oscar Wilde First sighting of Laura by Petrarch Death of Laura (28 years later) 7 Gabriela Mistral William Wordsworth 8 Alfred Jarry William Herbert, 3rd Earl of Pembroke 9 Charles Baudelaire 10 William Hazlitt George William Russell 11 József Attila 12 Death of Edward Young Death of Pietro Metastasio 13 Samuel Beckett Seamus Heaney Wife of Bath and Merchant join pilgrims of Canterbury Tales in the Tabard Inn, Southwark 14 Death of Jean de la Fontaine Death of Thomas Otway 15 Tomas Tränstromer 16 Anatole France Kingsley Amis 17 Constantine Cavafy 18 US Federal Court declares Ezra Pound incurably and permanently insane, consigns him to St. Elizabeth's 19 Etheridge Knight Frank Davey Death of Byron 20 Caresse Crosby 21 Ulrich von Hutten 22 Louise Glück Philip James Bailey 23 Possible birth of William Shakespeare Edwin Markham Death of William Shakespeare 24 George Oppen Robert Penn Warren 25 Walter De La Mare 26 Other possible birth of William Shakespeare Giovanni P. Lomazzo Alice Cary 27 Hart Crane disappears off the rear of a steamship returning from Mexico 28 Carolyn Forche 29 Yusef Komunyakaa Rod McKuen Ezra Pound turned over to US troops by Italian army, imprisoned in Genoa (later to the cage at Pisa) 30 John Crowe Ransom Alice B. Toklas Thoreau accidentally sets fire to the woods near Concord, destroys 300 acres, $2000 damages ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:30:47 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noemata Subject: Re: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" -argument? room 104.. blogging a dead saur hross why aren't there interaction between web and list, blog and mail, if not already maybe the blogger systems should have mail functions to posting, for crossfertilization, and the other way, that mails would integrate in the bloated blahlalairy. maybe already the case, though people don't care. i scream, vanilla, in vain, vanitas satin awe dressing, veine vomica whim at 3.29pm posted 01/03/2004 06:23:07, Alan Sondheim wrote: >For myself I wish more people would post here - that it wouldn't be by and >large announcements. > >I go only occasionally to blogs; I feel the space is too controlled in a >sense, like window-shopping. I'd rather someone scream at me here. And I >wish more people in fact would open themselves up here, that the list >would be a place of vulnerability as well as advertisement. > >Alan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:29:34 -0500 Reply-To: Mike Kelleher Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Kelleher Organization: Just Buffalo Literary Center Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 03-01-04 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THIS WEEK IN THE HIBISCUS ROOM The Hibiscus Room at Just Buffalo is located in the Tri-Main Center, 2495, Main St, Suite 512 Tatiana de la Tierra Reading and book release: FOR THE HARD ONES: A LESBIAN PHENOMENOLOGY Friday, March 5, 8 p.m. Tatiana de la Tierra is the author of For the Hard Ones: A Lesbian Phenomenology (Calaca/Chibcha Press, 2002), and a chapbook, Porcupine Love and Other Tales from My Papaya (Chibcha Press, 2003). INTERDISCIPLINARY EVENT Joyce Carolyn's Corner A TRIBUTE TO SARAH VAUGHN, produced by Jennifer May Saturday, March 6, 8 p.m. Allen Hall University at Buffalo South Campus (Next to Park & Ride), $10 Come out for A Tribute to Sarah Vaughn presented by The Colored Musicians' Club Ladies First Big Band, under direction of Mr. George Scott and you won't be disappointed. Vocalists Joyce Carolyn and Peggy Farrell are joined by nationally- known storytellers Karima Amin and Sharon Holley for this performance exploring the life and essence of Sarah Vaughn through music and words. Last year's performance in tribute to Ella Fitzgerald was standing room only, so don't miss this show! Co-sponsored by WBFO 88.7. NEXT WEEK IN THE HIBISCUS ROOM Erotica An Open Reading Friday, March 12, 7:30 p.m. Just Buffalo curator Karen Lewis continues her local writers series, presenting an open Erotica Reading. All are welcome to attend and to present short erotic works. WORKSHOPS BEGINNING THIS WEEK So You Say You Can't Write Poetry? with Marj Hahne Six Wednesdays, March 3, 10, 17, 24, 31, and April 7, 7 - 9 p.m.; $150, $125 for members As children we were natural poets, but by adulthood, we likely suppressed some of the sensibilities that enliven our reading and writing of poetry: (1) a fascination with wordplay and the infinite possibilities of language, (2) an alert sensory perception, (3) recognition and acceptance of our unique voice, and (4) patience with our learning process. Designed for the beginning or tentative poet (although practiced poets will find it enriching, too!), this educational and fun workshop will present accessible poetic forms, sample poems, and prompts as structures that allow for the possibility of poetry as we uncover or recover our individual poetic voices. We will create a safe space for generating lots of original writing while attending to the particulars of craft: language choices, the poem's shape, and various poetic devices. Marj Hahne is a poet and teaching artist from New York City. Her work has appeared in Painted Bride Quarterly, Mad Poets Reviews, La Petite Zine, Rogue Scholars, & New England Writer's Network. She also has a CD entitled, notspeak. How to Write and Sell Essays, Short Stories, Travel and Feature Articles with Kathryn Radeff 4 Saturdays, March 6, 13, 20, 27 10-12 a.m. $135, $110 for members. Single class $35, $30 members The magazine field is overflowing with opportunity. With the right approach you can craft articles, sell and re-sell to worldwide publications. Open to everyone, this four-week special workshop focuses on the fundamentals editors are looking for and presents the secret to writing great marketing letters. Through in-class and at-home exercises, Kathryn Radeff provides a fun, effective, and motivational workshop designed to inspire the writer and develop creative confidence. The workshop also includes creative self-promotion methods and the business end of publishing. It is recommended that you purchase the four guidebooks from the "You Can Be A Working Writer" series at $5.95 each. March 6 Writing & Selling Personal Essays March 13 Writing & Selling Short Stories March 20 Writing & Selling Travel Articles March 27 Writing & Selling Feature Articles JUST ANNOUNCED Neruda 's Birthday Party Reading Just Buffalo and White Pine Press celebrate the Centennial of the birth of the great Chilean poet, Pablo Neruda. Wednesday, March 31, 2003, at 7:30pm in the Hibiscus Room. Visiting poet John Brandi will discuss Neruda and read from work influenced by Neruda's poetry. Dennis Maloney, translator of three books of Neruda's poetry, will read from his translations and discuss Neruda's impact on the world of poetry. Bring you favorite Neruda poem to read. The Njozi/Just Buffalo SlamFest Weekend April 2, 7 p.m., Open Mic Jam with New York poets, $10 April 3, 2 p.m., Teen Poetry Slam, $5 April 3, 7 p.m., Invitational Slam, $10 Allen Hall University at Buffalo South Campus (Next to Park & Ride) Njozi Promotions in conjunction with Just Buffalo present the Njozi SlamFest Weekend. We will be kicking off "National Poetry Month" with a showcase that will not be forgotten in the near future. Poets representing New York City, Toronto, Canada; Cleveland, Ohio and Washington, D.C. Friday night will be an off the hook Open Mic Jam featuring Jive Poetic, Mahogany Browne and Brother Earl from New York City. Saturday afternoon, April 3 will be the Njozi Teen Poetry Slam! We will have Dee Jays, door prizes and a lot of fun. The main event, the Buffalo Invitational Slam, takes place at 8 p.m. on Saturday. The registration is $25 for performers. The Grand Prize is $500 in cash to the man or woman left standing after 3 rounds. Pre registration is a must so contact us ASAP. If you have any questions send an email to Njozi@hotmail.com This promises to be a very memorable event! POETRY CONTEST BOOMDAYS Celebration Poetry Contest. BOOMDAYS is a grassroots celebration of the advent of Spring, commencing with the lifting of the Lake Erie-Niagara River Ice Boom. It will be held on Friday, April 2 at The Pier from 4:00 PM to midnight. Contest Use the ice boom as a source of inspiration and write a poem about spring, celebrating our own "write" of passage. Prizes of $200, $150 and $100.00. Winning poems published in ArtVoice and displayed at the event. Adult winners must read their work at the BOOMDAYS kickoff event, April 2, 2004 at The Pier from 4:00 PM to midnight. Poems should be typed, single spaced, not exceeding one page. Submit only one poem, includeing name, address, telephone number. Deadline: March 15, 2004. Send to: BOOMDAYS, Just Buffalo Literary Center. 2495 Main Street, Suite 512 Buffalo, New York 14214 For further information about the contest, organizations, or BOOMDAYS events, go to www.boomdays.com. SPOKEN ARTS RADIO W/ Mary Van Vorst 6:35 and 8:35 a.m. Thursdays and 8:35 a.m. Sundays on WBFO 88.7 FM March 4 & 7 - AMMIEL ALCALAY (In the Hibiscus Room) March 18 & 21 - SHARON OLDS Sharon Olds has been winning awards for poetry since her first book in 1980 Satan Says. She's now the author of seven books of poetry, and her work has appeared in The New Yorker, The Paris Review, and The Nation and Poetry. She's been awarded the Guggenheim Fellowship, and NEA grant, and served as New York State poet laureate. She teaches at NYU and helps run the workshop at Goldwater Hospital in New York. (She'll be in Buffalo 4/1/04 - a Canisius event.) April 1 & 4 - ED ROBERSON (In the Hibiscus Room) April 15 & 18 - YUSEF KOMUNYAKAA (Collaborations and Connections) April 29 & May 2 - SUSAN RICH (World of Voices) WORK*WRITE For better writing at work, turn to Just Buffalo. Today's workplace makes unprecedented demands to write and communicate effectively. Effective writing is one of the key components of workplace success, yet most people - from the reception desk to the executive suite - don't feel confident in their writing skills. Solid organizational writing means improved customer relations, fewer possibilities of legal liability and more efficient use of company time. Just Buffalo's instructors are working writers and professionals. Training is customized to your business needs and can be conducted on-site, off-site, or by email. For a brochure or more information, call Just Buffalo at 832-5400. IF ALL OF BUFFALO READ THE SAME BOOK JUST BUFFALO CHOOSES BOOKER PRIZE-WINNING NOVEL, THE GOD OF SMALL THINGS FOR 2004 IF ALL OF BUFFALO READ THE SAME BOOK BUFFALO - Just Buffalo Literary Center has chosen The God of Small Things, by Arundhati Roy, as the centerpiece of its 4th If All Buffalo Read The Same Book program, which will culminate in a two-day author's visit on September 8-9, 2004. The God of Small Things won the 1997 Booker Prize for literature, Great Britain's highest literary honor. Arundhati Roy became the first non-expatriate Indian author and the first Indian woman to win the award. The New York Times called the book "dazzling" and "remarkable," while the Washington post noted, "It's hard to avoid using words like 'splendid' and 'stunning' to describe this debut novel." Media, book clubs, organizations, educators, public officials and individuals who would like more information or a reader's guide, as well as those interested in sponsorship, can contact Just Buffalo at 832-5400 or by writing info@justbuffalo.org. Contact Just Buffalo: Just Buffalo Literary Center 2495 Main St., Ste. 512 Buffalo, NY 14214 716.832.5400 (tel) 716.832.5710 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org info@justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 07:57:56 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In fact it would be nice if advertisements for poetry readings and conferences were posted on the Buffalo web site, by region, city, instead of on this list. Also looking for someone's address. As for "a place of vulnerability," I completely agree. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 9:23 PM Subject: Re: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List > For myself I wish more people would post here - that it wouldn't be by and > large announcements. > > I go only occasionally to blogs; I feel the space is too controlled in a > sense, like window-shopping. I'd rather someone scream at me here. And I > wish more people in fact would open themselves up here, that the list > would be a place of vulnerability as well as advertisement. > > Alan > > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko > http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt > Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > finger sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:32:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Lamoureux Subject: It's all about the Bling-Bling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Announcing: BLING BLING Your deco-micromagazine 2 3/4" x 2 1/8", portable format w/ fashionable exterior Featuring work by: Eric Baus, kari edwards, John Mulrooney, Aaron Tieger, Dorothea Lasky, Daniel Bouchard, Christina Strong, Noah Eli Gordon, Chuck Stebelton, Michael Carr, Sara Veglahn, Mark Lamoureux Available for $2 post paid cash or check to Michael Carr 9 Malcolm Road, #1 Cambridge, MA 02138 blingblingmagazine@yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:42:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Traffic Subject: Devin Johnston & Susan Landers at Small Press Traffic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Devin Johnston & Susan Landers at Small Press Traffic Friday, March 5, 2004 at 7:30 p.m. Devin Johnston is the author of the poetry collections Telepathy and Aversions (new this spring from Richmond?s own Omnidawn Press) as well as Precipitations: Contemporary American Poetry as Occult Practice (Wesleyan, 2002). Forrest Gander writes: "While his lexicon is rich and particular, Johnston's line is severe, unadorned, and keenly cut to measure out the subtle, counterpointed music which so strongly marks these poems." With Michael O'Leary, Johnston publishes Flood Editions, an independent press. He joins us from Chicago. Susan Landers joins us from Brooklyn, NYC to celebrate the publication of her debut collection, 248 mgs., a panic picnic, by Oakland?s own O Books. Kevin Killian says she "has turned Pan on his head to spell out NAP, a nap in which she sees and writes through the creepy children?s modernism of Rossetti, Stein, Sandburg, Harryman, and Freud. This "panic picnic" is a fresh, engaging look at the anxiety of a restricted vocabulary ? roll over, Esperanto, and tell Basic English the news." & next up will be: Charles Alexander & Beverly Dahlen Friday, March 19, 2004 at 7:30 p.m. Unless otherwise noted, events are $5-10, sliding scale, free to SPT members, and CCA faculty, staff, and students. Unless otherwise noted, our events are presented in Timken Lecture Hall California College of the Arts 1111 Eighth Street, San Francisco (just off the intersection of 16th & Wisconsin) http://www.sptraffic.org check out our highly readable website Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Executive Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCA 1111 -- 8th Street San Francisco, CA 94107 415.551.9278 http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:49:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Fwd: Mark(s) 4.04 now available! Comments: cc: Ron Silliman Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The current issue of Mark(s), an online poetry and visual art zine originating in Detroit, is up. The issue features digital poems by myself and Steve Benson, an essay on piano performance from the Soviet period, and visual/cinematic work. The current editors are Ted Pearson and Deb King. "Based in Detroit, mark(s) is a not-for-profit quarterly created for the sole purpose of expanding access to contemporary cultural productions. Since its premiere issue in June 2000, mark(s) has consistently presented new work across a wide variety of artistic practices. The editors are committed to promoting substantive dialogue between Detroit-based artists and the world." ***** 4.04 release ---------- Steve Benson Samuil Feinberg Mary Laredo Herbeck Scott Hocking Mark Sengbush Barrett Watten ---------- http://www.markszine.com This site requires a minimum screen resolution of 800x600 for viewing. If links in this message do not work in your email browser, paste http://www.markszine.com into the location bar of your browser to view mark(s). march 1, 2004 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:22:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: "What if the oppressed Americans revolt?" In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20040229145122.01e23a40@mail.ilstu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please forward http://transdada.blogspot.com/ Since 9/11, folks hunkered down in the shock or awe of the media frenzy=20= under a regime that was bent on conquest, retaliation for a fathers=20 failures and bringing forth a religious agenda, based on fear and=20 hate. While, some where recovering from grief; WMD's and evil forces=20 flashed before our faces, the environment was ignored and destroyed,=20 and we where filled with lies and deceit. Now, in face of too many=20 miserable failures, way to many deaths, an unimaginable deficit and=20 kidnapping of leader; this president wants to abandon the very premiss=20= of the constitution, that being the constitution that is there to=20 protect the minority from thoughtless politicians and the majority. now it is time to rise up.. for the first time in years, individuals,=20 community leaders, and politicians are are daring to stop this myth=20 making, trying to rise above to chatter of lies and deceit... even as=20 report, this is the time, stay informed, act, do not let more more=20 freedoms disappear, do not let another person die needlessly, to not=20 let the basic rights we have struggled for vanish... in an article at transdada, What if the oppressed Americans revolt? by=20= RYAN SAMPLE, quoting Mr. Bush saying: "We should also conduct this=20 difficult debate in a manner worthy of our country, without bitterness=20= or anger." we need to rise up and be bitter for the lies, the deceit, the=20 oppression, steeling our rights, too many deaths and now trying to=20 destroy the constitution... its time to get angry and unruly... Today at transdada http://transdada.blogspot.com/ Monday, March 01, 2004 -Bush Bypasses Senate, Seats Anti-Gay Judge -What if the oppressed Americans revolt? -Gay marriage issue leads GOP official to quit -Social Security won't accept SF marriage licenses as ID -Bush pledged to back ban in Nov., Musgrave aide says -Miss. Senate backs Constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage -Scientists counter Bush view Families varied, say anthropologists -Senator blocks plan to ban gay marriage Amendment unlikely to be back=20= this year -Transsexual Police Officer Receives Additional Settlement -Gay rally cry: Marry us, Mike -Saudis quiz 'gay wedding' guests -Ohio gay GOP official turns Democrat -New Paltz Mayor Delays Gay Weddings -The Candidates in Their Own Words: On Trade, Gay Marriage and Haiti over the weekend at http://transdada.blogspot.com/ -Cold reception for gay wedding ban -S.F. Mayor Slams Bush Gay Wedding Stance -Oakland Seeks To Become Second California City To Let Gays Marry -Miller Calls On Mike to Allow Gay Nups -City Council speaker urges Bloomberg to permit gay marriages -David Moats - Civil Wars -A civil rights landmark -Wolves in sheep=92s clothing will still tear you apart -Gay unions push new publishing frontiers and more.. http://transdada.blogspot.com/= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:47:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sylvester pollet Subject: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >There's a flaw in the logic here : "it seems that poets write for poets thus condemning our artform to an ever smaller audience." I'd estimate there are 9,246 poets to every one when I started. If they really read other poets, the audience is expanding geometrically. Sylvester (no blog) At 12:05 AM -0500 3/1/04, Automatic digest processor wrote: >Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 22:48:28 -0600 >From: Haas Bianchi >Subject: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List > >I had a discussion today with a poet friend about the decline of this >listserv, since many of the brightest lights have moved to writing Blogs and >away from discussing here and we do not have the kinds of fights that >existed before. > >So I have this question for you all- it seems that poets write for poets >thus condemning our artform to an ever smaller audience,it also seems that >poets want to listen to the sounds of their own voices, by writing blogs, I >am as much at fault for this since I have two blogs, but I really wonder >where will the dialogue happen? Where will the arguments come from? it seems >that poets are ghettoized and we are not disagreeing with each other and >making the work new. > >So Buffalo listers tell me what you think? > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:41:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: POG: Nathaniel Tarn & Janet Rodney Saturday evening March 6; Tarn talk/discussion, Sunday afternoon March 7 Comments: To: Tenney Nathanson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit for immediate release; please re-post this message to other pertinent lists to get the word out! www.gopog.org POG presents poet Nathaniel Tarn poet/artist Janet Rodney Saturday, March 6, 7pm Dinnerware Dinnerware Gallery 210 N. Fourth Avenue Admission $5; students $3 and a discussion with Nathaniel Tarn Sunday, March 7, 2pm at Dinnerware Nathaniel Tarn writes: “One subject I am always interested in is the question of simplicity/complexity in poetry and the sociological factors involved in creating each. I am genuinely interested in peoples' ideas about this so that an interactive seminar would be best for me.” An online copy of Tarn’s essay “Regarding the Issue of ‘New Forms,’” which people might be interested in looking at before the discussion, will be available on the pog website. (Admission: $5; students $3) Nathaniel Tarn: As poet, essayist, translator, and editor, Nathaniel Tarn has published some twenty-five books, among them The Beautiful Contradictions, Lyrics for the Bride of God, a 2002 Poems: Selections from Wesleyan, a celebrated translation of Pablo Neruda's The Heights of Macchu Picchu, and an anthology of his collected essays in literary and cultural criticism, Views from the Weaving Mountain. He is the recipient of numerous awards including the Guinness prize, the Wenner Gren fellowship, a Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Fellowship, and a Rockefeller Foundation Fellowship. Janet Rodney: poet, prose writer and visual artist Janet Rodney is the author of Orphydice, Atitlan / Alashka (with Nathaniel Tarn), and the meditative memoir The Book of Craving. Rodney was raised in Europe, the United States, and Taiwan, then spent fifteen years in Spain as a journalist, editor, translator, and interpreter. She is a lay nun in the Zen Buddhist tradition and proprietor of Weaselsleeves, a fine letterpress studio. for links to web materials by or about Nathaniel Tarn and Janet Rodney please go to www.gopog.org POG events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council, the Arizona Commission on the Arts, and the National Endowment for the Arts. POG also benefits from the continuing support of The University of Arizona Poetry Center, the Arizona Quarterly, Chax Press, and The University of Arizona Department of English. We also thank the following 2003-2004 POG donors: Patrons Liisa Phillips, Austin Publicover, and Jesse & Wendy Roberts; Sponsors Michael Gessner, Maggie Golston, Steve Romaniello, and Frances Sjoberg. for further information contact POG: 615-7803; mailto:pog@gopog.org; www.gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:46:30 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: HAITIAN HISTORY LESSON w QUESTION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii By the time of the Haitian revolution which took place in 1810 Haitian slaves were largely coming out of prisons in west Africa and directly loaded on to slave ships. The average life-span of a Haitian slave once actually in Haiti was five years. It was cheaper to work them to death and get new ones than to treat them decently. The only free blacks were mulattoes -- usually having white fathers. They formed the small middle-class that revolted in 1810. Because Napoleon was busy elsewhere they won and consolidated their power. The French did send an expedition, but they largely died of yellow fever. There's a mystery -- it may have been the first case of chemical warfare. Some histories argue that voodoo practitioners exploded yellow fever powder all over the French and decimated them. In revenge, the French demanded a payment of 50 million dollars from the Haitian government. Haiti refused to pay and so the French not only did not give them diplomatic recognition, but also forced America to snub them as well. This situation continued until Haiti -- a nation overloaded with people that were not meant to live -- defaulted on American loans in the 1930s and was invaded by US troops. The invaders rewrote the Haitian constitution -- which said that only Haitians could own Haitian land -- and said that anybody could -- and huge sugar and coffee companies -- American and German -- bought up the best land and kicked all the small tenants into the cities. The mulatto upper class held Haiti in the manner of colonials for their American masters until Duvalier. Duvalier revolted and got the presidency, and began to liquidate the mulattoes (some of whom have produced fine literary works, such as the Marcellin brothers who wrote The Beast of the Haitian Hills). Duvalier continued to do business with American companies, but American companies were never completely comfortable with him. When Aristide kicked out Baby Doc Duvalier it looked like a Catholic takeover, and like the poor would win something at last in Haiti, and also that there would be a better climate for busness. At that point I tuned out, and went on to hotter countries. But what is there in Haiti to get? Due to agriculturalist imperialism their topsoil is rapidly being eroded. The average Haitian has a caloric intake of 1200 per day. If you work in a factory sewing American baseballs you make about 2 dollars a day and sometimes you get a vitamin thrown in. A bowl of rice costs 60 cents. The newspapers never say who these "revolutionaries" are. My guess is that they are Duvalierists coming back while the US is tied up elsewhere. It's odd -- even the New York Times just calls them "the revolutionaries." The US did engineer the fall of Baby Doc to help Aristide in. They oversaw elections, and went to great lengths to help out under Clinton's administration. I haven't paid attention to the situation there in about a decade. There is a GREAT BOOK of Haitian poetry called The Woe Shirt which was translated by Howard Norman. Paule BArtok was the poet. This book was published in about 1980 by Graywolf PRess and has gone out of print. Bartok was an intinerant poet who was often put in prisons for his poems (even though they are not revolutionary but are very beautiful odd dreamy prose poems). I haven't read Rene Depestre, but I understand that his book A Rainbow for the Christian West (Un Arc en Ciel pour l"ouest Chretien) is worth a long look. The surrealist leader Breton loved a Haitian poet named Magloire St. Aude, but I cannot understand that poet at all. Breton said he was better than Mallarme. There are only about 15-30 pages in all, as I recall. I read them, and felt the bizarrely beautiful vowels but couldn't put together what on earth he was saying. Who exactly are these so-called revolutionaries? Does anybody know if they are Duvalierists? I can't imagine who else would have enough of an organization there to bring off a revolution. I also don't see why it would be in American interests to topple Aristide since so much effort went into putting him in. Apparently no Haitian president has ever left office without the use of force. There have been some 60 coups. Exciting place. -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:00:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: The New McCarthyism: Shut Up and Blog! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a difference between people who have genuine discussion to contribute to a list-serv and people who just want to appear documented. People (not just poets) cling to ornamentation -- anything -- and will make it the 'work' of their life. Paper license, blog, what's the difference? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:09:19 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Myles/Andrews/ Dante? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just read sections of Bruce's remarkable Lip Service and would like to=20 focus on one aspect of it; for the first time in a generation, the poem make= s an=20 invisible subject visible, the concept of the insufficiency of language -if=20 there were nothing beyond language, how could then language ever be insuffic= ient?=20 In my view, in Lip Service, Bruce is joining the opposite camp, a group of u= s=20 for whom the insufficiency of language, pushing towards its limits is an=20 enduring poetic concern. Lip Service as a translation. Every translation must start with a misreading= =20 of the original, with an "error," which opens up, fragments the original tex= t,=20 moving them both beyond their themselves to a third space. As Sherry Brennan observed, Bruce does not translate Dante word to word, but= =20 space to space around the words. Bruce's "riffs" expand the space around=20 Dante's language into a language which is not quite Bruce's own. That is wha= t is=20 remarkable about it. In souljam,which is a translation of the Turkish poet k= =FC=E7=FCk=20 Iskender's cang=FCncem, I do a similar thing. That's what translation is, a dialectics in space: two linguistic spaces=20 (codes, Benjamin's "modes of intention") moving to a third. Lucas Klein's=20 translation zine, CypherJournal (www.CipherJournal.com), will soon have two=20= pieces, my=20 Translation: Contemplating Against the Grain and the interchange between Ken= t=20 Johnson and Mark Ducharme, dealing with this subject in relation to Benjamin= =20 and Spicer.=20 In Lip Service, I am struck how Bruce often chooses a relatively "abstract"=20 word in Dante, something more within his palette as an American poet, and th= e=20 riff expands that pallette, around, into, beyond the original language : wobbling baby syllogisms sillogismi silence flutter me out silenzio=20 marble cupid pinking terror cupidit=E0 "Cupidita," which literally means cupidity," becomes "cupid." "Terror" is so= =20 much a word unlike Bruce. In other words, as a translation, LS defamiliarize= s=20 Bruce's own language, complements, thins it beyond its limits. I hope I am not being unfair to Bruce's sense of his own work. I am not sure= =20 if he remembers it. Several years ago he, Pierre Joris, Charles North, I thi= nk=20 Charles Bernstein, and I were riding toward uptown in my car from The Poetry= =20 project. Bruce told Pierre how much he admired his Celan translations, which= =20 were also translations of a linguistic essence rather than words. LS seems t= o=20 me to be a poem of the same vein. Murat=20 I ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:14:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: HAITIAN HISTORY LESSON w QUESTION Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain One might do well to read BLACK JACOBINS, by C.L.R. James, for a fuller background, particularly on the question of America's having been "forced" by France to snub Haiti. On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 13:46:30 +0000, Kirby Olson wrote: > By the time of the Haitian revolution which took place in 1810 Haitian slaves were largely coming out of prisons in west Africa and > directly loaded on to slave ships. The average life-span of a Haitian slave once actually in Haiti was five years. It was cheaper to > work them to death and get new ones than to treat them decently. > > The only free blacks were mulattoes -- usually having white fathers. They formed the small middle-class that revolted in 1810. Because > Napoleon was busy elsewhere they won and consolidated their power. The French did send an expedition, but they largely died of yellow > fever. There's a mystery -- it may have been the first case of chemical warfare. Some histories argue that voodoo practitioners > exploded yellow fever powder all over the French and decimated them. > > In revenge, the French demanded a payment of 50 million dollars from the Haitian government. Haiti refused to pay and so the French not > only did not give them diplomatic recognition, but also forced America to snub them as well. This situation continued until Haiti -- a > nation overloaded with people that were not meant to live -- defaulted on American loans in the 1930s and was invaded by US troops. > > The invaders rewrote the Haitian constitution -- which said that only Haitians could own Haitian land -- and said that anybody could -- > and huge sugar and coffee companies -- American and German -- bought up the best land and kicked all the small tenants into the cities. > The mulatto upper class held Haiti in the manner of colonials for their American masters until Duvalier. Duvalier revolted and got the > presidency, and began to liquidate the mulattoes (some of whom have produced fine literary works, such as the Marcellin brothers who > wrote The Beast of the Haitian Hills). Duvalier continued to do business with American companies, but American companies were never > completely comfortable with him. When Aristide kicked out Baby Doc Duvalier it looked like a Catholic takeover, and like the poor would > win something at last in Haiti, and also that there would be a better climate for busness. At that point I tuned out, and went on to > hotter countries. > > But what is there in Haiti to get? Due to agriculturalist imperialism their topsoil is rapidly being eroded. The average Haitian has a > caloric intake of 1200 per day. If you work in a factory sewing American baseballs you make about 2 dollars a day and sometimes you get > a vitamin thrown in. A bowl of rice costs 60 cents. > > The newspapers never say who these "revolutionaries" are. My guess is that they are Duvalierists coming back while the US is tied up > elsewhere. It's odd -- even the New York Times just calls them "the revolutionaries." > > The US did engineer the fall of Baby Doc to help Aristide in. They oversaw elections, and went to great lengths to help out under > Clinton's administration. > > I haven't paid attention to the situation there in about a decade. > > There is a GREAT BOOK of Haitian poetry called The Woe Shirt which was translated by Howard Norman. Paule BArtok was the poet. This > book was published in about 1980 by Graywolf PRess and has gone out of print. Bartok was an intinerant poet who was often put in prisons > for his poems (even though they are not revolutionary but are very beautiful odd dreamy prose poems). > > I haven't read Rene Depestre, but I understand that his book A Rainbow for the Christian West (Un Arc en Ciel pour l"ouest Chretien) is > worth a long look. The surrealist leader Breton loved a Haitian poet named Magloire St. Aude, but I cannot understand that poet at all. > Breton said he was better than Mallarme. There are only about 15-30 pages in all, as I recall. I read them, and felt the bizarrely > beautiful vowels but couldn't put together what on earth he was saying. > > Who exactly are these so-called revolutionaries? Does anybody know if they are Duvalierists? I can't imagine who else would have enough > of an organization there to bring off a revolution. I also don't see why it would be in American interests to topple Aristide since so > much effort went into putting him in. > > Apparently no Haitian president has ever left office without the use of force. There have been some 60 coups. Exciting place. > > -- Kirby Olson > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:38:45 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christine Murray Subject: Re: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi Ray, Alan, and All-- I guess I could *argue* :) that blogs and blog writing are not always, only, self-concerned, tho my statement here will be, somewhat. Of my 2 blogs, for example, predominantly features the work of others. I thought Guillermo Parra of Venepoetics http://venepoetics.blogspot.com, put it nicely when he once refered to http://texfiles.blogspot.com as an on-going anthology (while of course anthologies have their down sides, too). My other blog, Poetry_Heat, http://poetry_heat.typepad.com, is set up primarily for my current poetry course, and is meant to be a welcoming threshold for students and any other folk who might be curious. It has the syllabus and reading list, and some student work posted. But to my mind, unlike the more fluid facility of statement and response on a list, especially this one, a difference with blogs is the slower pace of dialogic engagement and development. It takes days sometimes to recognize that someone else has responded to something on your blog by linking. There are technologies that inform quickly, Comments, Atom, Technorati, and such, but they take some investment of time and energy to manage and who has much of those to spare? Oftimes I think that blogging tends to make super-manager types out of the blogger. This is something of a problem for what I think of as the point of blogging: to explore and highlight poetry. Hard to do that if busy most of the time managing. I'm not complaining: I enjoy the challenge. But it does make the whole experience full of paradox and irony. A list, on the other hand, is a place to start, enter, participate in a conversation where the management is undertaken by someone else or something else (the technical aspects are not much the writer or contributor has to worry about). Blogs can also be places for extended conversation, but in a far more diffuse and dispersed way--not in the same way that a list will sustain focus on a topic, so for the purpose of discourse community, perhaps blogs are not as gratifying as a list. Maybe that's one of the big differences. Alan mentions that in blog reading "the space is too controlled, like window shopping..." so, yes, in blog writing there is also the sense of being part of an arcade, of wandering-via-writing through what is analogous to brand names (that inescapable tendency of consumerist culture, I suppose)--or perhaps the Walter Benjamin kind of arcade?--has anyone yet discussed this similarity? Or I sometimes ruefully think (admittedly immersed in it myself): all the pitfalls of a consumerist mall but no material or physical being at all. How very odd an activity for so many physical beings. But the wonderful aspects of blog community cannot really be reduced only to those observations, either. Thanks for raising the issue, Ray. Best Wishes, Chris Murray Director, UTA Writing Center Lecturer, Rhetoric, Literature, Creative Writing University of Texas, Arlington http://uta.edu/english/znine http://texfiles.blogspot.com http://poetry_heat.typepad.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:01:17 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Christ Says: "I Can't Come Back! The CIA Would Kill Me!!" Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press America! Christ Killer!---Again And Again And Again...! "I Can't Come Back! The CIA Would Kill Me!!" Christ Says: Aristide Did Not Resign; U.S. Marines Kidnap Aristide, Lead Him Off In Handcuffs: "America Is The Third World's Paternalistic, Bad Step-Father."--Desmond Tutu By The Editors: They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:58:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: elen gebreab Subject: BathHouse Vol. 2 No. 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Friends: Please take a gander, bookmark, and pass along! http://www.emich.edu/studentorgs/bhouse/ BathHouse is an online journal of hybrid art and hypermedia edited by current and former Eastern Michigan University graduate students in Creative Writing. It takes its name from the 19th-century sanatoriams, bathhouses, and mineral water wells that flourished in Ypsilanti, Michigan until truth in labeling laws were passed. The "foul smelling" waters of the Atlantis well-in the vicinity of the current Jones-Goddard dorm on the EMU campus-were bottled and shipped nationwide as a cure for 33 disorders of the blood. Contributors: Liam Agrani Kevin Fitzgerald elen gebreab Doctor Hugo Robert Nelson Aimee Parkison Isabelle Pelissier Laura Solomon JodiAnn Stevenson Nico Vassilakis http://www.emich.edu/studentorgs/bhouse/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:40:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: a letter from Zon about the passing of his mother Comments: To: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, WRYTING-L Disciplines , ubuweb@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [some words of profound wisdom from the younger generation. Zon is 16 & facing the circumstances of the Great Unexpected. I'm sure he'd like to receive emails from those that were touched by his mother's life & art] and now a letter from ZON- *************************************************** I want to let everyone know that I (Zon) am doing just fine in this whole death/life process, just to say it quickly and easily. I have always been quite accepting of the afterlife, even when I was a "youngin" I would ask people what happens when you die. I now feel that Lyx knows the answer to the ultimate question, maybe she can all tell us sometime. I am relieved that she didn't have to suffer in the state she was in. Her spirit can now soar wherever she need might go, and in any direction in space and time. She of course is still living in all the other times-spaces that she has ever lived. We are all still with her in our memories and our hearts, in the past, and maybe even in the future. enough with the nonsense, I myself am doing better in this then most, being that I have my whole life to deal and understand with the situation at hand. I can definitely use any and all support that I can get. Mostly what I need and want is people to come and be creative with me, and make Dreamtime alive, something that when it happens, is beautiful and magical. I hope to send more later, I keep hearing that people where asking how I was doing, and I am doing fine in all this. So much love, going out, and coming in, Zon zee_on@mwt.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:34:42 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: HAITIAN HISTORY LESSON w QUESTION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Aldon -- got any guesses as to the question of who these "revolutionaries" are? I would be willing to bet you a nickel that they are not Marxists. -- Kirby ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > One might do well to read BLACK JACOBINS, by C.L.R. James, for a fuller > background, particularly on the question of America's having been "forced" by > France to snub Haiti. > > On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 13:46:30 +0000, Kirby Olson wrote: > > > By the time of the Haitian revolution which took place in 1810 Haitian slaves > were largely coming out of prisons in west Africa and > > directly loaded on to slave ships. The average life-span of a Haitian slave > once actually in Haiti was five years. It was cheaper to > > work them to death and get new ones than to treat them decently. > > > > The only free blacks were mulattoes -- usually having white fathers. They > formed the small middle-class that revolted in 1810. Because > > Napoleon was busy elsewhere they won and consolidated their power. The French > did send an expedition, but they largely died of yellow > > fever. There's a mystery -- it may have been the first case of chemical > warfare. Some histories argue that voodoo practitioners > > exploded yellow fever powder all over the French and decimated them. > > > > In revenge, the French demanded a payment of 50 million dollars from the > Haitian government. Haiti refused to pay and so the French not > > only did not give them diplomatic recognition, but also forced America to snub > them as well. This situation continued until Haiti -- a > > nation overloaded with people that were not meant to live -- defaulted on > American loans in the 1930s and was invaded by US troops. > > > > The invaders rewrote the Haitian constitution -- which said that only Haitians > could own Haitian land -- and said that anybody could -- > > and huge sugar and coffee companies -- American and German -- bought up the > best land and kicked all the small tenants into the cities. > > The mulatto upper class held Haiti in the manner of colonials for their > American masters until Duvalier. Duvalier revolted and got the > > presidency, and began to liquidate the mulattoes (some of whom have produced > fine literary works, such as the Marcellin brothers who > > wrote The Beast of the Haitian Hills). Duvalier continued to do business with > American companies, but American companies were never > > completely comfortable with him. When Aristide kicked out Baby Doc Duvalier > it looked like a Catholic takeover, and like the poor would > > win something at last in Haiti, and also that there would be a better climate > for busness. At that point I tuned out, and went on to > > hotter countries. > > > > But what is there in Haiti to get? Due to agriculturalist imperialism their > topsoil is rapidly being eroded. The average Haitian has a > > caloric intake of 1200 per day. If you work in a factory sewing American > baseballs you make about 2 dollars a day and sometimes you get > > a vitamin thrown in. A bowl of rice costs 60 cents. > > > > The newspapers never say who these "revolutionaries" are. My guess is that > they are Duvalierists coming back while the US is tied up > > elsewhere. It's odd -- even the New York Times just calls them "the > revolutionaries." > > > > The US did engineer the fall of Baby Doc to help Aristide in. They oversaw > elections, and went to great lengths to help out under > > Clinton's administration. > > > > I haven't paid attention to the situation there in about a decade. > > > > There is a GREAT BOOK of Haitian poetry called The Woe Shirt which was > translated by Howard Norman. Paule BArtok was the poet. This > > book was published in about 1980 by Graywolf PRess and has gone out of print. > Bartok was an intinerant poet who was often put in prisons > > for his poems (even though they are not revolutionary but are very beautiful > odd dreamy prose poems). > > > > I haven't read Rene Depestre, but I understand that his book A Rainbow for the > Christian West (Un Arc en Ciel pour l"ouest Chretien) is > > worth a long look. The surrealist leader Breton loved a Haitian poet named > Magloire St. Aude, but I cannot understand that poet at all. > > Breton said he was better than Mallarme. There are only about 15-30 pages in > all, as I recall. I read them, and felt the bizarrely > > beautiful vowels but couldn't put together what on earth he was saying. > > > > Who exactly are these so-called revolutionaries? Does anybody know if they > are Duvalierists? I can't imagine who else would have enough > > of an organization there to bring off a revolution. I also don't see why it > would be in American interests to topple Aristide since so > > much effort went into putting him in. > > > > Apparently no Haitian president has ever left office without the use of force. > There have been some 60 coups. Exciting place. > > > > -- Kirby Olson > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:31:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: from EVERY LINES OTHER by Lyx Ish Comments: To: WRYTING-L Disciplines , spidertangle@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Why death & love & such kinds lure content's dream onto paper, demand the attention of words. "I intend to exhaust the subject" she said of the manner in epic & gladly noticed a growth of dyslexia. How drinking tea with a writer can start a fire on paper a week later. Had the writer been a woman. Certain figures of speech are everywhere & in any position. As soon as you wear one for a while the fashion wears out of it. Is language itself the only other thing? Its true the distraction of the distracted recoils from single-mindedness. which large word can be a good or a bad thing depends how far out you want to lift it. I took the twinkle in my hot & wandering eye & squeezed the guts out of it as sorely as a turtle run over. It was staring at alphabet colored paints dripping weird incredible music heard between his sleep, how gray can be yellowish out of a nyc window at five in the morning perfect height above the streets, calmly lying in place even with the likelihood of rodents passing, suddenly understood my pain. Which meant feeling it really. The Other, crouching hopeful, full-eyed. And the Other, crouching longing obedient. This is not allowed, this cross-out of remembering better which image feels the text like a teenager. Where is the point. In taking a word for blatant. Sex has imposed more attention than death. which hurts more. It was the train hit me, everywhere between my cunt & my heart & later on including each. As if I needed another excuse. I did, & it didn't work because when you excuse yourself you are longer at the table but are someone else's meal. I admit I said "eat me". Still do, though I no longer use words or situations, the fantasy can be so quiet now I don't heard the moaning. (At least I threw up in the cleaner apartment.) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:10:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Join the call for Congress to censure President Bush now In-Reply-To: <9CC1BD86-6BD8-11D8-A437-0003935A5BDA@mwt.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear friend, In an attempt to escape responsibility for the misleading statements that led the nation to war, President Bush has announced plans to form an independent inquiry to look into what went wrong. An inquiry would serve the Bush administration well: it would envelop the issue in a fog of uncertainty, deflect blame onto the intelligence services, and push any political damage into 2005, after the upcoming election. But the facts need no clarification. Despite repeated warnings from the CIA and Defense Intelligence Agency, President Bush and his administration hyped and distorted the threat that Iraq posed. And now that reality is setting in, the President seeks to pin the blame on someone else. We can't let him. Congress has the power to censure the President -- to formally reprimand him for his betrayal of the nation's trust. If ever there was a time to use this function, it is now. Join the call for Congress to censure President Bush now at: http://www.moveon.org/censure/?id=-1427944-XakQwp_W7nv556Scw8rwFQ Thank you ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:53:03 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Bechtel Subject: Re: HAITIAN HISTORY LESSON w QUESTION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This article at the Guardian claims the following regarding the = revolutionaries: "The leaders of the death squads Mr Aristide disbanded now control much = of the country and prepare to march on the capital. The country that = assisted his return 10 years ago, the United States, encouraged him to = leave. His political fortunes have been turned upside down."=20 http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1159230,00.html -Brent www.bechtel.blogspot.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Kirby Olson" To: Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 3:34 PM Subject: Re: HAITIAN HISTORY LESSON w QUESTION > Aldon -- got any guesses as to the question of who these = "revolutionaries" are? >=20 > I would be willing to bet you a nickel that they are not Marxists. >=20 > -- Kirby >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 17:15:10 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris \Back channel me!! Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetrycalendar.blogspot.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Christine Murray > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 1:39 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List > > > Hi Ray, Alan, and All-- > > I guess I could *argue* :) > that blogs and blog writing are not always, only, self-concerned, tho my > statement here will be, somewhat. Of my 2 blogs, for example, > predominantly > features the work of others. I thought Guillermo Parra of Venepoetics > http://venepoetics.blogspot.com, put it nicely when he once refered to > http://texfiles.blogspot.com as an on-going anthology (while of course > anthologies have their down sides, too). My other blog, Poetry_Heat, > http://poetry_heat.typepad.com, is set up primarily for my current poetry > course, and is meant to be a welcoming threshold for students and > any other > folk who might be curious. It has the syllabus and reading list, and some > student work posted. > > But to my mind, unlike the more fluid facility of statement and > response on > a list, especially this one, a difference with blogs is the slower pace of > dialogic engagement and development. It takes days sometimes to recognize > that someone else has responded to something on your blog by > linking. There > are technologies that inform quickly, Comments, Atom, Technorati, > and such, > but they take some investment of time and energy to manage and > who has much > of those to spare? Oftimes I think that blogging tends to make > super-manager types out of the blogger. This is something of a > problem for > what I think of as the point of blogging: to explore and highlight poetry. > Hard to do that if busy most of the time managing. I'm not complaining: I > enjoy the challenge. But it does make the whole experience full > of paradox > and irony. > > A list, on the other hand, is a place to start, enter, participate in a > conversation where the management is undertaken by someone else > or something > else (the technical aspects are not much the writer or contributor has to > worry about). Blogs can also be places for extended > conversation, but in a > far more diffuse and dispersed way--not in the same way that a list will > sustain focus on a topic, so for the purpose of discourse > community, perhaps > blogs are not as gratifying as a list. Maybe that's one of the big > differences. > > Alan mentions that in blog reading "the space is too controlled, > like window > shopping..." so, yes, in blog writing there is also the sense of > being part > of an arcade, of wandering-via-writing through what is analogous to brand > names (that inescapable tendency of consumerist culture, I suppose)--or > perhaps the Walter Benjamin kind of arcade?--has anyone yet discussed this > similarity? Or I sometimes ruefully think (admittedly immersed in it > myself): all the pitfalls of a consumerist mall but no material > or physical > being at all. How very odd an activity for so many physical beings. But > the wonderful aspects of blog community cannot really be reduced only to > those observations, either. > > Thanks for raising the issue, Ray. > > Best Wishes, > > Chris Murray > Director, UTA Writing Center > Lecturer, Rhetoric, Literature, Creative Writing > University of Texas, Arlington > > http://uta.edu/english/znine > http://texfiles.blogspot.com > http://poetry_heat.typepad.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:33:04 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Start A Fight.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Me? Moi? maybe with myself... blah blah blah ferocious conformity socio ambiguity... the more ed.. the plus plus brain washed.. rinse it out spin dry fold follow the left left left gauche blah blah blag blog bleeder drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:40:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jason christie Subject: Re: lisible vs. scriptible MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the future ----- Original Message ----- From: "furniture_ press" To: Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 5:18 PM Subject: lisible vs. scriptible > Name something that can be written but cannot be read (resists reading). > -- > _______________________________________________ > Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net > Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year! > > Powered by Outblaze > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:42:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: HAITIAN HISTORY LESSON w QUESTION Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I'll keep my nickel, thank you. I only have a few of them. The "revolutionaries" are familiar faces to any who have followed events in Haiti in recent decades. One of them, for instance, was convicted for the murder of the Attorney General of Haiti's only freely elected government. On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 16:34:42 +0000, Kirby Olson wrote: > Aldon -- got any guesses as to the question of who these "revolutionaries" are? > > I would be willing to bet you a nickel that they are not Marxists. > > -- Kirby > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:39:43 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Timothy Yu Subject: Re: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" As someone who's only posted to the list about three or four times in the past five years, I can't say I'm that nostalgic for knock-down, drag-out fights on the Poetics list--in fact, I've always found them profoundly alienating. I'm bothered by the fetish of "starting an argument" for its own sake, especially when it gets confused with dialogue or community. So maybe there's a reason that some of the "brightest lights" have taken up blogging. I've been blogging for about a year now, and I've found it to be (for me) a much more amenable form in which to think and talk about poetics. And contrary to what often gets said about blogs on this list--that they're "boutiques" where poets get to "listen to the sound of their own voices"--I've always thought of blogging as a much more humble mode of communication. If you want to tune in to my random musings, you can, but they don't land in the inboxes of several hundred people each day. More overheard than heard, I guess. I also like what Chris Murray said about the slower pace of blog discussion--which gives me time to think about what I want to say, and to explain myself at some length; the list tends to make me just react. Contrary to what Ray Bianchi suggested, I think blogs make discussions about poetry more accessible, less "ghettoized," than before. Non-poet friends and colleagues who would never have access to the Poetics list can and do look at blogs, and the odd mix of the public and the private that tends to animate a blog can be more appealing to a general reader. And I have found that blogs can build poetry communities just as effectively as a listserv. I recently moved from the Bay Area to Chicago, and felt like I was able to make contact with poets here right away largely because we were reading each other's blogs. I'm not sure whether Tim Peterson meant his comment that blogs were "re-regionalizing" poetry as a criticism; to the extent that it's true, I don't think it's a bad thing--maybe, like politics, all poetry is local--but if it's giving certain places (San Francisco, Chicago, Boston) a clearer sense of themselves, it's also connecting them to other communities elsewhere. So has the Poetics list changed? Sure, but I don't think blogs are to blame. If anything, the list is kind of a victim of its own success. As it's gotten larger and larger, and become something like an official organ of experimental poetry--become, in short, an institution--it's inevitably become more public and impersonal, more like a bulletin board than a coffee-table conversation. That's an important role, and maybe it's a sign of the strength of a community rather than its weakness. Conversations take all kinds of forms, and they don't all have to involve screaming. Tim Yu http://tympan.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:41:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Rumble Subject: Experts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" from Yahoo In the News burps: "Experts: Video Games make kids fat, violent" like vicious ground hogs on the edge of the road, frogger-style the expert level... your, Ken Rumble ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:05:24 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit following this, I do want to emphasize that: if the reason you don't read blogs you love / want to monitor / the reason "blogs seem scattered all over the web" is you aren't rolling them into newsletters you can disseminate / formats you can read like the old morning newspaper reason you aren't exporting yr blog into rss is you haven't been to feedster (or the competing cos.) and figured it out, if that is the only reason you aren't looking at the valuable insights of those limited to two posts a day on lists -- not only this one! or the reason (I have this reason) of not *filtering* any of the dozens of lists I'm on, but scanning the g, b, and u then -- isn't that lame? ok, then -- I also want to say -- I am starting another two reading series, and need 1) poet bands (yes, the usual suspects are covered) and 2) published poets teaching high school other than that fave of mine, *Todd Baron* XOXO Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net P.S. Did ya read the ridiculous review of John Kinsella in the LA Times, Sunday Book section? Yet marvel at the color picture and full page "length" as I did? P.S.S. Have you read my review of ECLPISE in the newest ABR? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:08:22 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: quoth Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 All: Quotation: Typog. (ellipt. for quotation-quadrat.) A large (usually hollow) quadrat used for filling up blanks (orig. the blanks between marginal references). I am asking everyone on the list to write me personally or to use this as the start of a new thread. I am reading Edmond Jabes' "The Book of Shares" and was inspired to start writing through these vigorously silent texts. As a result, I am considering beginning a large scale production of or collection of poems that respond directly or work through [a] particular quote[s]. If anyone would be interested in pointing the way [I'm currently doing some research on the nature of quotation]. If anyone would like to contribute texts that deal with quotation or the nature of quotation, please feel free to write me. May this venture be anthologizing! Chris -- _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:21:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: quoth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris: Jabes' Book of Margins, a work composed almost entirely of quotes. Cheers, Jerry Schwartz > All: > > Quotation: Typog. (ellipt. for quotation-quadrat.) A large (usually hollow) quadrat used for filling up blanks (orig. the blanks between marginal references). > > I am asking everyone on the list to write me personally or to use this as the start of a new thread. > > I am reading Edmond Jabes' "The Book of Shares" and was inspired to start writing through these vigorously silent texts. As a result, I am considering beginning a large scale production of or collection of poems that respond directly or work through [a] particular quote[s]. If anyone would be interested in pointing the way [I'm currently doing some research on the nature of quotation]. > > If anyone would like to contribute texts that deal with quotation or the nature of quotation, please feel free to write me. May this venture be anthologizing! > > Chris > -- > _______________________________________________ > Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net > Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year! > > Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:23:33 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Re: Dante/Virgil - Narcissicism vs Classicism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Agreed ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:29:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Re: Dante/Virgil - Narcissicism vs Classicism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lucretius is the antidote. "The poetry, Lucretius keeps reminding his readers, is secondary, a = sugar coating to sweeten Epicurus' healing medicine. The Epicurean = system is what is important, and the poet pledges all his skill to = presenting it as clearly, as faithfully, and as persuasively as = possible.=20 In his view nothing less than universal enlightenment and the liberation = of mankind is at stake." http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/l/lucretiu.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:42:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List In-Reply-To: <000301c4000b$971f7d00$220110ac@CADALY> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed How about a simpler reason--lack of time? And that because most of the insights aren't that interesting the available time often seems better spent elsewhere? This list has become almost non-functional except as a bulletin board because of the two-message limit; that limit became necessary because of the unusually flame-prone crowd it gathers. Not a good example of what one can, and sometimes does, have at other lists. Notwithstanding, I understand that some find it helpful, perhaps as a discipline, to write essays in public. Mark At 08:05 PM 3/1/2004 -0800, you wrote: >following this, I do want to emphasize that: > >if the reason you don't read blogs you love / want to monitor / the >reason "blogs seem scattered all over the web" is you aren't rolling >them into newsletters you can disseminate / formats you can read like >the old morning newspaper > > reason you aren't exporting yr blog into rss > >is you haven't been to feedster (or the competing cos.) and figured it >out, > >if that is the only reason you aren't looking at the valuable insights >of those limited to two posts a day on lists -- not only this one! > >or the reason (I have this reason) of not *filtering* any of the dozens >of lists I'm on, but scanning the g, b, and u > >then -- isn't that lame? > >ok, then -- I also want to say -- I am starting another two reading >series, and need 1) poet bands (yes, the usual suspects are covered) and >2) published poets teaching high school other than that fave of mine, >*Todd Baron* > >XOXO >Catherine Daly >cadaly@pacbell.net > > >P.S. Did ya read the ridiculous review of John Kinsella in the LA >Times, Sunday Book section? Yet marvel at the color picture and full >page "length" as I did? > >P.S.S. Have you read my review of ECLPISE in the newest ABR? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 00:06:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: 3 cites inc. images MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cite mama help me i'm burning drunken diagram and blind uncited disappearing into plasma haiti is burning usa is burning codework is burning codework is burning is codework iraq is burning everywhere is burning cite http://www.asondheim.org/cite.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/cite2.jpg western http://www.asondheim.org/western.png http://www.asondheim.org/western2.png filter http://www.asondheim.org/filter1.png http://www.asondheim.org/filter2.png http://www.asondheim.org/filter3.png http://www.asondheim.org/filter5.png ----------------------- badoodle le it's 's the he tiniest st little le nub ub blubber er it it just st hangs gs there re and nd holds ds hands ds a soft ft rubbery ry flubbery ry of of an an organ an drinks ks when en it it wants ts to to squishy hy and nd wishy hy all ll little le men en made de little le things gs all ll men en are re little le little le men en bang ng bang ng bang ng look ok what at i can an do do little le grimy my slimy my things gs whirl rl and nd curl rl shrug ug its ts little le soldiers rs for or another er day ay like ke a noodle le caboodle le last st night ht when en i lay ay sleeping ng la la la i thought ht of of this is la la la la ----------------------- . |-- jade |-- an |-- image | |-- portal | | |-- nikuko | | `-- program | |-- sound | `-- tao `-- wukong 9 directories ----------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:26:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20040301203203.034415f0@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree with all sides of this -- there are so many ways to phrase it, make it a subject -- but I have to believe that off-list and onlist everything isn't dull! The blogsters were on friendster ages ago -- I was, too, but never tried to add "friends" other than Richard Meyer -- so I wd like more of the bloggers who aren't coming out of the journaling trad to chime in or something... Xo Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net Ps so my blog is old e & stuff ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 00:26:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: blogs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Maybe the day of the email list in fact is over. Its advantage has been that it comes in the most common of delivery systems, an inbox; its disadvantage is that it occurs in the midst of exponentially-growing spam. There is a relationship between email lists and the street - and between blogs and privatization, vis-a-vis Mike Davis, etc. One can still travel from blog to blog, conversation to conversation, but its moving through neighborhoods controlled to the extent that the owners want them controlled, designed, not according to a commons, but according to both owner and software. It's easier, even with rss, to find lists of interest, more difficult to find blogs. Blogs are midway between homepage and email list, of course. And they do open up to amazing discussion. But it does seem to me that the net is transformed by them, a kind of contraction and contract, in a way that's problematic, feedster or no feedster. As far as flamewars etc. go, or vulnerabilities - these are things that happen in situations of alterity, the imminence of the other, somewhere between Levinas and Sartre. It's out of control, has the potential for immediacy (but NOT the immediacy, say, of IRC or SMS/IM), and the issues of governance generally, but not always ride the surface and its textuality. It's not that I don't like blogs - I do. But I miss the commons, even the commons of, say, MOOs, and the equalities that these brings, and their epiphanies. Governance issues on MOOs are wide open. It's a question of democractic vistas in a sense - in relationship to increasing corporate/spam pressure - not to mention censorship and political pressure by just about every government, religious organization, etc. Don't forget Scientology's attack and eventual bringdown of anon.penet.fi. The Net is changing. The most open form I've seen was at West Virginia University, in the Virtual Environments Lab - they had a permanent more or less open link to other places - video/audio projected into the workroom vis-a-vis InternetII - and I was told even group parties were held. Reading about this sounds common; watching the small-talk was uncanny. But again this was real time, and it was possible to flame someone - alterity and imminence were characteristic of the form. There's also a question about collaboration, collaborative reading, and sharing of resources - all of which are taken for granted, and constitute a new paradigm among cultural workers, certainly among poets. So if one works individually, if one's image or imaginary is so distorted and broken and obsessively tended that it moves in other directions, rather than in the direction of the other, it now becomes problematic. If I announced that http://www.asondheim.org for example was a blog, that it would contain my latest work in file 'xy,' that would be the end of it. There's no room for response. Maybe communality (just to contradict myself) is a burden, or should be problematized, as much as anything else. Self-publication on lists, the materiality of lists, is something I and others have talked about endlessly. There is a _lot_ of work that needs lists for functioning - for better or worse, Meskens, Highland, mez, nn, solipsis, l_oy, are just a few people who come to mind - not to mention people like jodi who announce their presence/work on lists (and send to them as well at times). I feel as if my work is generally offensive to some, in spite of the fact that Charles Bernstein, one of the originators of Poetics, invited me to come on, and I've been sending to the list for close to a decade. You can always keep me off your blogs. Meanwhile, I'll listen to Kari Edwards - all of this is small stuff in relation to the fury our coutnry is going through at the moment - and if we don't take to the streets, don't release our own fury, things will get worse and worse. We're all expecting an 'October surprise' here - if not earlier - Osama captured, Giuliani for VP, a new terrorist attack, and the Repugnants will be back in power, carried on the populist platforms of the know-nothings and failed miseries like Charlton Heston - Alan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:02:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Re: blogs or whatever In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have not wanted to jump into this, trying to save each email as a=20 precious form of mass communication; if need be an emergency news=20 flash... that is my own particular way of struggling with the=20 oppression; what tools do I have at my finger tips... or what can I=20 wear, my pink triangle... and what I can record on my blog and send=20 out... I put in about 3 hours a day... i figure it is worth that to=20 regain freedoms lost... both forms are good for some and not for others... I like going to=20 sites, like the aesthetics-.. and links.. but love getting news,=20 updates.. on the list... what ever.. its basically simulacra=A0=A0 we have been forced in to small holes to *fight* over the crumbs... it=20= is time to form coalitions, find ways to make both blogs, lists and=20 whatever work as tools to defeat the lies, and over turn this regime the environment is in horrible shape, the ice caps are melting and=20 being ignored, we are loosing freedoms left and right, and with this=20 fascist homophobe in office, hate crimes are on the rise, we are so=20 much in debt they are talking of cutting back Social security and just=20= today we learn Haitian ex-President Aristide, was kidnapped by The US=20 military... this regimes has made overt and bold moves without trying=20= to hide them.., what does it mean that this government is blatantly=20 corrupt... I can not even imagine what they we do not know... its time to pull together-.. .. if for nothing else but to save a life=20= and the planet.. kari http://transdada.blogspot.com/ On Monday, March 1, 2004, at 09:26 PM, Alan Sondheim wrote: > Maybe the day of the email list in fact is over. Its advantage has = been > that it comes in the most common of delivery systems, an inbox; its > disadvantage is that it occurs in the midst of exponentially-growing=20= > spam. > > There is a relationship between email lists and the street - and=20 > between > blogs and privatization, vis-a-vis Mike Davis, etc. One can still=20 > travel > from blog to blog, conversation to conversation, but its moving = through > neighborhoods controlled to the extent that the owners want them > controlled, designed, not according to a commons, but according to = both > owner and software. It's easier, even with rss, to find lists of=20 > interest, > more difficult to find blogs. > > Blogs are midway between homepage and email list, of course. And they=20= > do > open up to amazing discussion. But it does seem to me that the net is > transformed by them, a kind of contraction and contract, in a way=20 > that's > problematic, feedster or no feedster. > > As far as flamewars etc. go, or vulnerabilities - these are things = that > happen in situations of alterity, the imminence of the other, = somewhere > between Levinas and Sartre. It's out of control, has the potential for > immediacy (but NOT the immediacy, say, of IRC or SMS/IM), and the=20 > issues > of governance generally, but not always ride the surface and its > textuality. > > It's not that I don't like blogs - I do. But I miss the commons, even=20= > the > commons of, say, MOOs, and the equalities that these brings, and their > epiphanies. Governance issues on MOOs are wide open. > > It's a question of democractic vistas in a sense - in relationship to > increasing corporate/spam pressure - not to mention censorship and > political pressure by just about every government, religious=20 > organization, > etc. Don't forget Scientology's attack and eventual bringdown of > anon.penet.fi. > > The Net is changing. The most open form I've seen was at West Virginia > University, in the Virtual Environments Lab - they had a permanent=20 > more or > less open link to other places - video/audio projected into the=20 > workroom > vis-a-vis InternetII - and I was told even group parties were held. > Reading about this sounds common; watching the small-talk was uncanny.=20= > But > again this was real time, and it was possible to flame someone -=20 > alterity > and imminence were characteristic of the form. > > There's also a question about collaboration, collaborative reading, = and > sharing of resources - all of which are taken for granted, and=20 > constitute > a new paradigm among cultural workers, certainly among poets. So if = one > works individually, if one's image or imaginary is so distorted and=20 > broken > and obsessively tended that it moves in other directions, rather than=20= > in > the direction of the other, it now becomes problematic. If I announced > that http://www.asondheim.org for example was a blog, that it would > contain my latest work in file 'xy,' that would be the end of it.=20 > There's > no room for response. Maybe communality (just to contradict myself) is=20= > a > burden, or should be problematized, as much as anything else. > > Self-publication on lists, the materiality of lists, is something I = and > others have talked about endlessly. There is a _lot_ of work that = needs > lists for functioning - for better or worse, Meskens, Highland, mez,=20= > nn, > solipsis, l_oy, are just a few people who come to mind - not to = mention > people like jodi who announce their presence/work on lists (and send = to > them as well at times). > > I feel as if my work is generally offensive to some, in spite of the=20= > fact > that Charles Bernstein, one of the originators of Poetics, invited me=20= > to > come on, and I've been sending to the list for close to a decade. You=20= > can > always keep me off your blogs. > > Meanwhile, I'll listen to Kari Edwards - all of this is small stuff in > relation to the fury our coutnry is going through at the moment - and=20= > if > we don't take to the streets, don't release our own fury, things will=20= > get > worse and worse. We're all expecting an 'October surprise' here - if=20= > not > earlier - Osama captured, Giuliani for VP, a new terrorist attack, and=20= > the > Repugnants will be back in power, carried on the populist platforms of=20= > the > know-nothings and failed miseries like Charlton Heston > > - Alan > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 01:32:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Blaming the blogosphere for what is lacking on the poetics list is an old tradition,(old in internet-time) and sounds to these old poet's ears like a cry of pain. This is not unusual from Mr. Sondheim, whose precision of perception is not the least bit lost on a great number of poets, despite its many fascinating, complex camouflages. What a poet needs, especially a long distance marathon poetry runner, is response. Some say there is never enough response for an artist, and that might be true, especially for those who crave the energizing, potentially infinitely expanding cycle of signal and response between artist and audience. It may sadden, alarm and confuse some to hear, given its tawdry, tinny surfaces, that this is exactly what is delighting and challenging many writers in Blogland. But the cycle (of signal land response), that is occurring in this situation is unlike any that has ever existed before, in the world of letters, it seems to me, and is not at all subsumed under the model shaped by the cycle of argument and debate, the taste for which is no doubt being stimulated (for some) by the pathetically tired old clich=E9d debates now going on in the mostly false and fraudulent US election process: another kind of Academy Award ceremony that is not eve= n funny anymore. Though many realize all of this movie academy and election academy sturm an= d drang is almost completely devoid of meaning (not significance, of course), does not prevent the emergence of the mentally stimulating, imagination- appetizing aspects of the spectacle of debate, an ancient mode of provoking the discovery and identification of greatness. But this election process is the clearest proof of Guy Debord's theories anybody could ever want to see. The Society of the Spectacle is beyond crisis; it is moribund. Can I wonder aloud if this argument and debate method of exchanging knowledge and inducing change, discovering truth, and uncovering greatness is totally bankrupt? What might replace it? What could replace it? Something is happening in Blogland and you don't know what it is, do you, Mr. Jones? affectionate regards to my list friends and literary comrades, Nick Piombino > Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:39:43 -0600 > From: Timothy Yu > Subject: Re: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List >=20 > As someone who's only posted to the list about three or four times in > the past five years, I can't say I'm that nostalgic for knock-down, > drag-out fights on the Poetics list--in fact, I've always found them > profoundly alienating. I'm bothered by the fetish of "starting an > argument" for its own sake, especially when it gets confused with > dialogue or community. >=20 > So maybe there's a reason that some of the "brightest lights" have > taken up blogging. I've been blogging for about a year now, and I've > found it to be (for me) a much more amenable form in which to think > and talk about poetics. And contrary to what often gets said about > blogs on this list--that they're "boutiques" where poets get to > "listen to the sound of their own voices"--I've always thought of > blogging as a much more humble mode of communication. If you want to > tune in to my random musings, you can, but they don't land in the > inboxes of several hundred people each day. More overheard than > heard, I guess. >=20 > I also like what Chris Murray said about the slower pace of blog > discussion--which gives me time to think about what I want to say, > and to explain myself at some length; the list tends to make me just > react. >=20 > Contrary to what Ray Bianchi suggested, I think blogs make > discussions about poetry more accessible, less "ghettoized," than > before. Non-poet friends and colleagues who would never have access > to the Poetics list can and do look at blogs, and the odd mix of the > public and the private that tends to animate a blog can be more > appealing to a general reader. >=20 > And I have found that blogs can build poetry communities just as > effectively as a listserv. I recently moved from the Bay Area to > Chicago, and felt like I was able to make contact with poets here > right away largely because we were reading each other's blogs. I'm > not sure whether Tim Peterson meant his comment that blogs were > "re-regionalizing" poetry as a criticism; to the extent that it's > true, I don't think it's a bad thing--maybe, like politics, all > poetry is local--but if it's giving certain places (San Francisco, > Chicago, Boston) a clearer sense of themselves, it's also connecting > them to other communities elsewhere. >=20 > So has the Poetics list changed? Sure, but I don't think blogs are > to blame. If anything, the list is kind of a victim of its own > success. As it's gotten larger and larger, and become something like > an official organ of experimental poetry--become, in short, an > institution--it's inevitably become more public and impersonal, more > like a bulletin board than a coffee-table conversation. That's an > important role, and maybe it's a sign of the strength of a community > rather than its weakness. Conversations take all kinds of forms, and > they don't all have to involve screaming. >=20 > Tim Yu > http://tympan.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 01:42:49 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: lisible vs. scriptible MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Name something that can be written but cannot be read Blue Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:19:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: blogs Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Alan---you asked for vulnerability (here's vulnerability in the form of ignorance: what is a MOO? ---------- >From: Alan Sondheim >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: blogs >Date: Mon, Mar 1, 2004, 9:26 PM > > But I miss the commons, even the > commons of, say, MOOs, and the equalities that these brings, and their > epiphanies. Governance issues on MOOs are wide open. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 02:19:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: codework MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII codework "Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)" Adjusting plane Adjusting plane or surface surface (A"eronautics) A small plane or surface, usually capable of adjustment but not of manipulation, for preserving lateral balance in an a"eroplane or flying machine. "Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)" Pedal Pe"dal, a. L. pedalis, fr. pes, pedis, foot. See Foot, and cf. Pew. 1. Of or pertaining to the foot, or to feet, literally or figuratively; specifically (Zo"ol.), pertaining to the foot of a mollusk; as, the pedal ganglion. 2. Of or pertaining to a pedal; having pedals. Pedal curve or surface (Geom.), the curve or surface which is the locus of the feet of perpendiculars let fall from a fixed point upon the straight lines tangent to a given curve, or upon the planes tangent to a given surface. Pedal note (Mus.), the note which is held or sustained through an organ point. See Organ point, under Organ. Pedal organ (Mus.), an organ which has pedals or a range of keys moved by the feet; that portion of a full organ which is played with the feet. "Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)" Surface Sur"face`, n. F. See Sur-, and Face, and cf. Superficial. 1. The exterior part of anything that has length and breadth; one of the limits that bound a solid, esp. the upper face; superficies; the outside; as, the surface of the earth; the surface of a diamond; the surface of the body. The bright surface of this ethereous mold. --Milton. 2. Hence, outward or external appearance. Vain and weak understandings, which penetrate no deeper than the surface. --V. Knox. 3. (Geom.) A magnitude that has length and breadth without thickness; superficies; as, a plane surface; a spherical surface. 4. (Fort.) That part of the side which is terminated by the flank prolonged, and the angle of the nearest bastion. --Stocqueler. Caustic surface, Heating surface, etc. See under Caustic, Heating, etc. Surface condensation, Surface condenser. See under Condensation, and Condenser. Surface gauge (Mach.), an instrument consisting of a standard having a flat base and carrying an adjustable pointer, for gauging the evenness of a surface or its height, or for marking a line parallel with a surface. Surface grub (Zo"ol.), the larva of the great yellow underwing moth (Triphoena pronuba). It is often destructive to the roots of grasses and other plants. Surface plate (Mach.), a plate having an accurately dressed flat surface, used as a standard of flatness by which to test other surfaces. Surface printing, printing from a surface in relief, as from type, in distinction from plate printing, in which the ink is contained in engraved lines. "Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)" Surface Sur"face, v. t. imp. & p. p. Surfaced; p. pr. & vb. n. Surfacing. 1. To give a surface to; especially, to cause to have a smooth or plain surface; to make smooth or plain. 2. To work over the surface or soil of, as ground, in hunting for gold. "Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)" Polar Po"lar, a. Cf. F. polaire. See Pole of the earth. 1. Of or pertaining to one of the poles of the earth, or of a sphere; situated near, or proceeding from, one of the poles; as, polar regions; polar seas; polar winds. 2. Of or pertaining to the magnetic pole, or to the point to which the magnetic needle is directed. 3. (Geom.) Pertaining to, reckoned from, or having a common radiating point; as, polar co"ordinates. Polar axis, that axis of an astronomical instrument, as an equatorial, which is parallel to the earths axis. Polar bear (Zo"ol.), a large bear (Ursus, or Thalarctos, maritimus) inhabiting the arctic regions. It sometimes measures nearly nine feet in length and weighs 1,600 pounds. It is partially amphibious, very powerful, and the most carnivorous of all the bears. The fur is white, tinged with yellow. Called also White bear. See Bear. Polar body, cell, or globule (Biol.), a minute cell which separates by karyokinesis from the ovum during its maturation. In the maturation of ordinary ova two polar bodies are formed, but in parthogenetic ova only one. The first polar body formed is usually larger than the second one, and often divides into two after its separation from the ovum. Each of the polar bodies removes maternal chromatin from the ovum to make room for the chromatin of the fertilizing spermatozo"on; but their functions are not fully understood. Polar circles (Astron. & Geog.), two circles, each at a distance from a pole of the earth equal to the obliquity of the ecliptic, or about 23deg 28', the northern called the arctic circle, and the southern the antarctic circle. Polar clock, a tube, containing a polarizing apparatus, turning on an axis parallel to that of the earth, and indicating the hour of the day on an hour circle, by being turned toward the plane of maximum polarization of the light of the sky, which is always 90deg from the sun. Polar co"ordinates. See under 3d Co"ordinate. Polar dial, a dial whose plane is parallel to a great circle passing through the poles of the earth. --Math. Dict. Polar distance, the angular distance of any point on a sphere from one of its poles, particularly of a heavenly body from the north pole of the heavens. Polar equation of a line or surface, an equation which expresses the relation between the polar co"ordinates of every point of the line or surface. Polar forces (Physics), forces that are developed and act in pairs, with opposite tendencies or properties in the two elements, as magnetism, electricity, etc. Polar hare (Zo"ol.), a large hare of Arctic America (Lepus arcticus), which turns pure white in winter. It is probably a variety of the common European hare (L. timidus). Polar lights, the aurora borealis or australis. Polar, or Polaric, opposition or contrast (Logic), an opposition or contrast made by the existence of two opposite conceptions which are the extremes in a species, as white and black in colors; hence, as great an opposition or contrast as possible. Polar projection. See under Projection. Polar spherical triangle (Spherics), a spherical triangle whose three angular points are poles of the sides of a given triangle. See 4th Pole, 2. Polar whale (Zo"ol.), the right whale, or bowhead. See Whale. "Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)" Cylindric Cy*lin"dric (s?-l?n"dr?k), Cylindrical Cy*lin"dric*al (-dr?-kal), a. Gr. kylindriko`s, from ky`lindros cylinder: cf. F. cylindrique. Having the form of a cylinder, or of a section of its convex surface; partaking of the properties of the cylinder. Cylindrical lens, a lens having one, or more than one, cylindrical surface. Cylindric, or Cylindrical, surface (Geom.), a surface described by a straight line that moves according to any law, but so as to be constantly parallel to a given line. Cylindrical vault. (Arch.) See under Vault, n. ___ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:46:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Crag Hill Subject: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan and Tim: I agree with your comments on the differences between poetics list and blogs, but there's not much I can do about it. A listserv thread demands rapid response to be relevant, within a day or so, or it falls into the rapids and disappears. It's easy to lose a listserv thread when there's but enough time to get the primary work done; many of us may not open, let alone read, a listserv digest, this one included for days. With a blog, I choose my own thread (I can unabashedly make it include my primary work, the poetry); I can choose my own rate of response. My argument? One's not better than another. Each contributes to the writing community. Best, Crag Hill ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 00:13:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Jerrold Shiroma [ duration press ]" Subject: Re: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit there's always the option of a forum setup...where threads are easily separated from one another...where, also, users can subscribe to individual threads, wider forum topics, entire boards, etc., & receive e-mail notices when something new is posted... in many ways, i prefer forums to lists... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Crag Hill" To: Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 11:46 PM Subject: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List > Alan and Tim: > > I agree with your comments on the differences between poetics list and > blogs, but there's not much I can do about it. A listserv thread demands > rapid response to be relevant, within a day or so, or it falls into the > rapids and disappears. It's easy to lose a listserv thread when there's but > enough time to get the primary work done; many of us may not open, let alone > read, a listserv digest, this one included for days. With a blog, I choose > my own thread (I can unabashedly make it include my primary work, the > poetry); I can choose my own rate of response. > > My argument? One's not better than another. Each contributes to the writing > community. > > Best, Crag Hill > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 04:11:30 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christine Murray Subject: Re: Blog or Start an Argument on the Buffalo List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain A few things I've rethought, or that I would add to my post on this thread yesterday: Forms: it's not a contest between list and blog. These are more productively understood not as oppositional sites but as differing forms--a point I did not quite come to when commenting. I am glad to see that Tim Yu did put it that way and explained several things well. Group blogs: these have interesting possibilities as one more version or form because stimulus/response is always shifting amongst group members as a presence, so contained yet unpredictable, thus could undermine tendencies to enact blogging in ways that parallel a little too closely a consumerist paradigm such as the mall. The dynamic of unpredictability in a group blog also seems to add energy though perhaps not much lengthily sustained discourse on a focused topic or thread. Activism: I agree that we are in grave danger: freedoms have been systematically and steadily eroded, and all forms and voices of discrimination are more prevalent and more self-congratulatory than ever. Activism that brings on real change results from continual commitment--vigilance--rather than sporadic reactions. This administration seems to be adept at anticipating reaction, so has become adept at choosing which issues to foreground, hype, and overplay, as well as which ones to let stay in the background--another of the Bushbag's divisive twists. With little journalistic awareness and intervention, this tendency remains unremarked and unchecked unless people counteract it by focused collective action. So there is a lot of political work to be continued. Cheers, Chris Murray http://uta.edu/english/znine http://texfiles.blogspot.com http://poetry_heat.typepad.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 07:55:39 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Blog Arguments... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I see two forces pullng against each other here... First a ferocious conformity, i.e. the more ed. the more brainwashing...i heard a sociologist provide a pro tem term for this about internet groupings..'self-inflating'...tho his was better.. This conformity..is masked in the po community.. by various guises...gender outsider games... incomprehensible squiggles..faux sit on yr ass activism..platitudinous theorizing...borrowing pomme frites when the native version isn't dense enuf...forming self-congrats groups..Lan-NY BlkMnt...and as ever & again..tenureuberalles... So the life of listserv.. Against this tendency..is a small or loud voice.. whispering or shouting..me...moi if you're eating them pomme ..dif..better..should be.. or rebel stein stein stein revel ...go straight to blog blah blog blah blog.... These two forces pull and warp each other.. isolation/community...me/more moi...or take yr dog for a walk and scoop up some dog doo.. What vie oustide the virtual.. The UNSTEIN...drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 07:15:55 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After reading all the responses I think that it is important to say that I blog myself but I think that the question is larger, why is it that poets, and poetry does not have a critical structure? The thing that I miss about the poetics list from before blogs was that critical aspect, the fact that people's work, and ideas got a good once over in these pages. In other genres, Fiction, Essay, Painting et cetera there is a critical structure that brings allot to the artform. Poets seem (apart from Gabriel Gudding, and Alan Sondheim) timid to critique because we may want our work in that poet's magazine and it would effect this. But I am glad that the idea led to the discussion Ray chicagopostmodernpoetrycalendar.blogspot.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Timothy Yu > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:40 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List > > > As someone who's only posted to the list about three or four times in > the past five years, I can't say I'm that nostalgic for knock-down, > drag-out fights on the Poetics list--in fact, I've always found them > profoundly alienating. I'm bothered by the fetish of "starting an > argument" for its own sake, especially when it gets confused with > dialogue or community. > > So maybe there's a reason that some of the "brightest lights" have > taken up blogging. I've been blogging for about a year now, and I've > found it to be (for me) a much more amenable form in which to think > and talk about poetics. And contrary to what often gets said about > blogs on this list--that they're "boutiques" where poets get to > "listen to the sound of their own voices"--I've always thought of > blogging as a much more humble mode of communication. If you want to > tune in to my random musings, you can, but they don't land in the > inboxes of several hundred people each day. More overheard than > heard, I guess. > > I also like what Chris Murray said about the slower pace of blog > discussion--which gives me time to think about what I want to say, > and to explain myself at some length; the list tends to make me just > react. > > Contrary to what Ray Bianchi suggested, I think blogs make > discussions about poetry more accessible, less "ghettoized," than > before. Non-poet friends and colleagues who would never have access > to the Poetics list can and do look at blogs, and the odd mix of the > public and the private that tends to animate a blog can be more > appealing to a general reader. > > And I have found that blogs can build poetry communities just as > effectively as a listserv. I recently moved from the Bay Area to > Chicago, and felt like I was able to make contact with poets here > right away largely because we were reading each other's blogs. I'm > not sure whether Tim Peterson meant his comment that blogs were > "re-regionalizing" poetry as a criticism; to the extent that it's > true, I don't think it's a bad thing--maybe, like politics, all > poetry is local--but if it's giving certain places (San Francisco, > Chicago, Boston) a clearer sense of themselves, it's also connecting > them to other communities elsewhere. > > So has the Poetics list changed? Sure, but I don't think blogs are > to blame. If anything, the list is kind of a victim of its own > success. As it's gotten larger and larger, and become something like > an official organ of experimental poetry--become, in short, an > institution--it's inevitably become more public and impersonal, more > like a bulletin board than a coffee-table conversation. That's an > important role, and maybe it's a sign of the strength of a community > rather than its weakness. Conversations take all kinds of forms, and > they don't all have to involve screaming. > > Tim Yu > http://tympan.blogspot.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:08:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Kimball Subject: Copp, Lamoureux, Cobb, Gottlieb, Lin, et al. Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit http://pantaloons.blogspot.com Precis of the following. _Sometimes Inspired by Marguerite_ Corina Copp _29 Cheeseburgers_ Mark Lamoureux _Cell_ Allison Cobb _Lost and Found_ Michael Gottlieb _BlipSoak01_ Tan Lin _Detective Sentences_ Barbara Henning _Deer Head Nation_ K. Silem Mohammad _Evidence of the Paranormal_ Albert Flynn DeSilver, Editor ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:20:55 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jukka-Pekka Kervinen Subject: xStream #18 online Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline xStream -- Issue #18 xStream Issue #18 is online, this time in four parts: 1. Regular: Works from 7 poets (Michael Estabrook, Kenji Siratori, Thomas Fink, Jean Vengua, Eileen Tabios, Jim Ryals and Mark Young) 2. Autoissue: Poems generated by computer from Issue #18 texts, the whole autoissue is generated in "real-time", every refresh. 3. Collaboration Issue #12: Human-machine interaction with Harry K. Stammer 4. Collaboration Issue #13: Human-machine interaction with Vernon Frazer Also announcing a new series, Wryting Issue, a monthly selection of WRYTING-L listserv works, now February Issue #1. Submissions are welcome, please send to xstream@xpressed.org. Sincerely, Jukka-Pekka Kervinen Editor xStream WWW: http://xstream.xpressed.org email: xstream@xpressed.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 06:32:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Flash notice... for immediate action!!! In-Reply-To: <20040302162055.A1840@xpressed.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable PLEASE FORWARD- http://transdada.blogspot.com/ Flash notice... for immediate action!!! **If you live in Georgia, or know someone who does, have them call on=20 Senate Resolution 595.. do not let it pass...!!!!!! ***If you live in Mississippi, call you state senator and defeat the=20 *gay marriage ban* ****If you live in San Mateo County, Call and have them do more then=20 vote against a constitutional amendment have them be courageous-.. things are happening all over, this is the time to make call, push,=20 practice being radical or queer put up you rainbow flag, wear a pink=20 triangle.. things are happening take action now..!!!! -[SF mayor under armed guard and homophbic signs show up... we must be=20= courageous in the face of violence-.. and be careful -[State Attorney General Eliot Spitzer declared yesterday that same-sex=20= couples should be allowed to wed.. call State Attorney General Eliot=20 Spitzer offer support...all it takes s one person at a time.. thank you kari edwards today at - http://transdada.blogspot.com/ -Sides clash over gay marriage amendment -Legislature to debate gay marriage again -House nudges gay marriage toward ballot -SF Mayor Under Police Guard=A0 -Pastor's Sign Calls AIDS Punishment For Homosexuality -Group asks to join Lockyer's petition to halt same-sex marriages -Spitzer comes out for gays -Dennis Duggan Time to take a stand on same-sex marriages and more! yesderday on http://transdada.blogspot.com/ -Calif.'s Schwarzenegger: Gay Marriage a State Issue -Massachusetts governor blasts Kerry over same-sex marriage -House Republicans Stay After Adjournment to Discuss Gay Marriage Ban=20 Indianapolis -Activists want to send a message to Barbara Boxer -Gay marriage vote too close to call Legislators waver under pressure -Soulforce Civil Disobedience to 'Shut Down' Church Trial of Methodist=20= Minister Karen -Ithaca NY To Accept Gay Marriages -Gays Boycott 'Sham' Hearing On Wisconsin Marriage Ban -Gay Marriage Face-Off Moves to Atlanta -Kerry on the Record: The Gay Marriage Flip-flop -New York City mayor urged to allow same-sex marriage any items..notes, essays, links, please send to: http://transdada.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:49:38 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Paul Sweezy dead at 93 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As I recall, it was in the pages of Monthly Review where I first read Lorenzo Thomas' piece on Frank Stanford's The Battlefield Where the Moon Says I Love You, just the sort of unpredictable gem that one used to be able to find in MR. Ron ------------------------------------- March 2, 2004 Paul Sweezy, 93, Marxist Publisher and Economist, Dies By LOUIS UCHITELLE Paul M. Sweezy, a Harvard University economist who left academia and became the nation's leading Marxist intellectual and publisher during the cold war and the McCarthy era, died Saturday at his home in Larchmont, N.Y. He was 93. The cause was congestive heart failure, his daughter, Lybess Sweezy, said. Mr. Sweezy did not think of himself as a Stalinist or sectarian. His Marxism developed as a response to the Great Depression, and his mentor was a famed conservative economist, Joseph Schumpeter, who counted on spirited entrepreneurs to lift the economy through a process of destruction and rebuilding. While Schumpeter wanted less government, Mr. Sweezy wanted more to offset what he considered capitalism's failings. Still, the two men worked together at Harvard in the late 1930's and early 1940's. Schumpeter cited his young friend in several of his own works and endorsed Mr. Sweezy for a tenured professorship at Harvard, even campaigning on his behalf. The slot went to a non-Marxist, and Mr. Sweezy soon left academia. Because of an inheritance from his father, a banker, he had enough money to support himself. Mr. Sweezy later told friends that if he had been forced to work for a living, he might have been more of a conformist. Instead, in 1949 he became co-founder and co-editor of The Monthly Review, an independent Marxist journal published in Manhattan that he continued to edit and contribute to until well into the 1990's. The magazine still appears, although its monthly circulation has fallen to 7,000, from 12,000 at its peak in the 1970's. For the first issue, Albert Einstein contributed an article titled "Why Socialism?" and over the years the bylines included such famous radicals or Marxists as W. E. B. Du Bois, Jean-Paul Sartre, Che Guevara and Joan Robinson. "The Monthly Review was attractive to people who were leaving the Communist Party and other sectarian groups," said John Bellamy Foster, a co-editor of the publication now. "It was and is Marxist, but did not hew to the party line or get into sectarian struggles." That reflected Mr. Sweezy's approach in the 100 articles or so that he wrote over the years and the more than 20 books he signed as author, co-author or editor. The most famous was "Monopoly Capital: An Essay on the American Economic and Social Order" (Monthly Review Press, 1966), with Paul A. Baran as co-author. That book argued that unregulated market economies have a tendency to stagnate and to develop oligopolies in which a few companies dominate each industry and keep pushing up prices, fattening profits for the oligopolies but damping economic activity because of a lack of price competition. What saved the United States from that fate in the 1960's, the authors wrote, were temporary phenomenon: military spending, robust consumerism and the growing demand for autos because of rapidly expanding suburbs and the new Interstate highway system. Paul Marlor Sweezy was born on April 10, 1910, the youngest of three sons of Everett P. Sweezy, vice president of First National Bank of New York, and Caroline Wilson Sweezy. He earned a bachelor's degree from Harvard in 1931 and his Ph.D. in 1937. By then he was a Marxist, having taken that step during a year at the London School of Economics. "I became convinced," he wrote much later, "that mainstream economics of the kind I had been taught at Harvard had little to contribute toward understanding the major events and trends of the 20th century." Still, back at Harvard, as a graduate student and then an instructor, he came in contact with Schumpeter and a friendship flourished, although they supported different solutions for ending the Depression. For Schumpeter, President Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal measures suppressed entrepreneurs in their normal process of creative destruction and innovation. For Mr. Sweezy, who borrowed from Keynesian theory as well as Marxism, government planning and intervention had a role, although working people also had to intervene. Listening to their debates, Paul Samuelson, the Nobel laureate, spoke of Schumpeter as "the foxy Merlin" and Mr. Sweezy as the "young Sir Galahad" who early on "established himself as among the most promising economists of his generation." During World War II, Mr. Sweezy spent four years in the Army as an officer in the Office of Strategic Services. After returning briefly to Harvard as a teacher and having failed to gain a tenured position, he left in 1946 to pursue the goal of establishing "a serious and authentic American brand of Marxism." The pursuit was not easy in the McCarthy era. He found himself in the courts in the 1950's after he refused to turn over to the attorney general of New Hampshire his notes from a lecture at the University of New Hampshire. The attorney general accused him of subversive activities and the case eventually went to the United States Supreme Court, which ruled in Mr. Sweezy's favor. Mr. Sweezy's first wife, Nancy, and his second wife, Zirel, survive, as do three children, Samuel, Lybess and Martha; two stepchildren, Jeffrey and Jennifer Dowd; seven grandchildren and two great-grandchildren. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 07:40:10 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Marsh Subject: Re: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List In-Reply-To: <000301c40016$edb85e60$220110ac@CADALY> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So, bloggers....what?....was there a question? (snapping awake, bill) > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Catherine Daly > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:27 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List > > I agree with all sides of this -- there are so many ways to phrase it, > make it a subject -- but I have to believe that off-list and onlist > everything isn't dull! > > The blogsters were on friendster ages ago -- I was, too, but never tried > to add "friends" other than Richard Meyer -- so I wd like more of the > bloggers who aren't coming out of the journaling trad to chime in or > something... > > Xo > Catherine Daly > cadaly@pacbell.net > > > Ps so my blog is old e & stuff > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:40:20 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "subrosa@speakeasy.org" Subject: Within Earshot MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WITHIN EARSHOT The sending of a handwritten letter is a terrorist act so I will email th= is to you as parcels continue over water in the sky over countries with p= eople=E2=80=99s lives below the rigors of recalling this are exhausting s= o they will bedenied and left to chance the great equalizer no one wakens= from this immersion it whistles down the street an apple core its seeds = showing sheer talent unmasked then disrobed remembered with the accuracy = of bees seeking perfect ingredient a tunnel really conduits really direct= ing the flow of it a compromise between the finch the perch and every ava= ilable place a cracking smile cracked becomes a place to land young breat= hing tyrant of the impossible holds a facsimile traced in every way excep= t for one and that would wooden carved reverent protracted focus engraine= d will be embalmed given half a chance the great equalizer a totemic nove= l we look up at as in tall people giant concerns we get cornered into tow= ard several locations a grid a pawn travels over water the match conclude= s while two more yet prepare for a dance and its coordinates to shine twi= ce now that the excursion softens and find it nearer than ever before sta= tions between stations a toggle switch thrown disarray thrown into sewn i= nto a rush of upheaval a sonic cavalcade units of it deny it a pleasure d= enied the blocks it blocks the electric servant the language servant draw= n and written in magnified print the peaks capped in deep antennae the ca= rousel tossing smitten smitten breathless collapsible lung folded up and = portable walking away walks away away removed away Nico Vassilakis ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:49:06 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Diggs & Conrad: Poetry Project, 3/15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Latasha N. Nevada Diggs &=20 CAConrad Monday, March 15 8pm Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church in the Bowery 131 E. 10th St. New York City ------------- Writer and vocalist Latasha N. Nevada Diggs' literary and sound works have=20 been featured and recorded in various publications and audio projects rangin= g=20 from rock to house music.=A0 She is the author of two chapbooks, Ichi-Ban: f= rom=20 the files of negr=EDta mu=F1eca Linda and Ni-Ban: Villa Miser=EDa, as well a= s the=20 writer and producer of an experimental audio essay, "Televis=EDon".=A0 A fel= low of the=20 Cave Canem Workshop for African American Poets, she was the 2002 artist in=20 residence at Harvestworks Digital Media Arts Center.=A0 She has received=20 fellowships and scholarships in the field of poetry from both the New York F= oundation=20 for the Arts and Naropa University's Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poet= ics. Some of her online links: http://www.aozoramarket.com/eng/ ------------- http://www.drunkenboat.org/ ------------- http://www.nyfa.org/nyfa_artists_detail.asp?pid=3D4962 ------------- http://womenarts.org/ ------------- http://cavecanempoets.org ------------- CAConrad has three forthcoming books: DEVIANT PROPULSION (Soft Skull Press),= =20 advancedELVIScourse (Buck Downs Books), and FRANK (The Jargon Society). He=20 co-edits FREQUENCY Audio Journal with Magdalena Zurawski, and edits BANJO: P= oets=20 Talking, and 9for9. Among other things, he is currently collaborating with=20 poet Frank Sherlock on their project "The City Real & Imagined: Philadelphi= a=20 Poems," also with Frank Sherlock & Jennifer Coleman on project "7." He is p= art=20 of The Philly Sound: http://phillysound.blogspot.com Some of his online links: http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/xconnect/i20/t/conrad1.html ------------- http://www.tameme.org/issue_2/excerpts/conr-ex.html ------------- http://www.lodestarquarterly.com/work/153/ ------------- http://poetry.about.com/library/weekly/aa030403n.htm ------------- http://www.muse-apprentice-guild.com/winter_2003/caconrad/home.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:57:19 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: Blog Arguments... In-Reply-To: <19362282.1078232150858.JavaMail.root@wamui08.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i hesitate to post in on this thread, but i do think there are some fundamental issues at stake in this thread... on the one hand, as alan sondheim suggests, blogs are simply part of a growing online suite---lists, irc, moos, muds, and so forth... and we'll each be free to pick and choose on the basis of what we like, technical difficulties notwithstanding... i've never myself much liked moos/muds, for instance, and i've always gone online primarily with the intention of seeking out dialogue (as opposed, e.g., to role-playing, which puts me somewhat at odds with the gaming communities, and at odds with more performative engagements, and at odds even with argument as such, though i imagine that all true dialogue presupposes some degree of conflict, and though i love a good debate)... times have changed---quickly... the web itself changed the internet irrevocably... while giving us the archive, it seems also to have given us the ability to archive our lives (i'll set aside the matter of whether this is symptomatic of other cultural-social-regionalizing trends)... now: just as some people will be better at dialogue, others will prove better at archiving, and blogging, and so forth... to be candid, i don't want to read all of the blogs written by the folks on this list, not least (and this is one reason why i hesitate to post on this thread) b/c you all don't express yourselves with equal aplomb (i am trying to be nice)... but also b/c what you all have to say, and how you enact/demonstrate what you have to say, doesn't really interest me... this is ok, though, right?---b/c this is what it means to say that each is free to pick and choose, as above... but to zero in a bit: in point of fact---and again, i'm trying not to be harsh---i'm much less interested in what ron silliman has to say about bertolucci (re which i think i can offer up some comments that are at least as provocative) than in what he has to say about berkeley and brautigan and the 60s... since i wasn't in berkeley in the 60s, i find this to be of historical interest to me as a poet... but there may be another issue at stake here too---i.e., as to why i'm reading ron on berkeley side-by-side with his remarks on bertolucci... now i'm on the verge of saying something about the current state of poetry and poetics, but i'll leave that for a book, b/c that's how much space i need to say it... i certainly don't mean to beat up on ron---and what's more, even if i DID beat up on ron (sorry for dragging you into this ron!), he'd still have those 100,000 hits, right?... which is an odd, or at least different, form of assessment than we're accustomed to making, when you think about it... still, there is one rather elementary observation i'd like to make here: and this is that, in part b/c of spam, but also as a consequence of the larger and larger number of typing anthropoids who are making their way online, things are getting, well, just a bit overwhelming, yes?---whether in terms of blogs or in terms of lists or whatever... one alan sondheim was one thing, ten alan sondheims is another thing altogether (and here again, not everyone can do what alan does, so---)... my way of saying, if i may, that attention span may be a nonrenewable resource, and that quantitative differences can have qualitative effects... one poetry blog is one thing, 400 poetry blogs is another thing altogether, and 4000 poetry blogs may be a sign that we think we're more different (or, uhm, articulate) than we are... i have an argument about this that goes something like: more readers turned writers (which has historical precedent)... for another time maybe... to be candid, i think we're reaching something of a breakpoint (or, another breakpoint, as the web has ushered in several already, it seems to me) in terms of attention span---which as i see it assumes only that many of us would like to spend a few hours a day OFFline... will exploiting new technologies of communication/expression in and of itself foster a more dialogic poetry/poetics reality?... not anymore than will this list automatically foster dialogue... just look around... and there may in fact be limits at work here---functional limits... i know it's not popular, generally, to discuss limits on this list, but that the human eye can't see a single frame at 24 frames/second might prompt us to give some thought as to what a dialogic limit might be, properly speaking and in terms of something approaching a community... anyway... i take it as axiomatic that dialogue is vital to sustaining a healthy arts environs... i certainly don't mean to suggest that we shouldn't be exploiting our new technologies---i mean to say that we would probably do well to bring to our exploits a working sense of what we hope to achieve vis-a-vis other typing anthropoids... and from where i'm sitting, we're coming up a bit short, collectively speaking... i mean, if only to judge by kari edwards's stated concerns re the planet (*this* planet)---which may not be the datum we would want to use on a daily basis, of course, but which does seem to me a reasonable way of situating our concerns---the online world as currently articulated is managing, if not to intensify, then certainly not to mitigate the divide e.g. between art and commerce (which to my way of thinking ought to be mutually and beneficially dependent)... and if the commercial, profit-driven possibilities of the web, say, are permitted to run roughshod over art, well: i don't think this bodes well for art OR commerce, never mind whether distribution of poetry profits in the meantime (b/c as we all know, just about nobody is getting rich off of poetry---which poets ought not to use as an excuse for dropping off into a dogmatic slumber)... so apologies for putting it this way, but: attention to the quality [term used advisedly] of what we're expressing/communicating may be the only way to offset what i see as these encroaching numbers... by "quality" i don't necessarily mean stylistic nuance, if that too... if all i can do here is make an appeal---and all i can do here IS make an appeal---i would ask, as presumptuous as it may be OF me to ask, that those of you who imagine your work as bloggers, discussants, what have you, work even harder to make your words matter... now, you see why i didn't want to post in?... thanks for listening, at any rate... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:34:48 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tim Peterson Subject: Re: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Thanks for this, Tim. This is actually the most eloquent comment on the subject that I've heard lately. It really helps me to see both sides (are there sides?), and shows me that blogs and listservs are not necessarily in competition, as some have implied, but can even cooperate with one another. I also want to thank everyone involved in this discussion for (so far) not turning it into an argument per se. I am also moved and intrigued by Nick's comment regarding the "bankruptcy" of dialogic or dialectical interaction and discussion. This is a new thought, almost an extension of the Language poets' point that the world inside the poem reflects the politics and means of production of the world outside it. In a way, Nick's comment itself can be seen as a dialectical move to "trump" Langpo's faith in argumentation and thought (dare I say "progress"?) as curatives. At first read, this comment struck me as extremely cynical and made me want to go jump off a bridge right now (notice that he doesn't propose a solution, except to say it has something to do with "the medium," not the message), but then I started to think about whether it might be possible for this listserv to learn something from blogs and bloggers in this sense. Is there a way we can have a discussion that's non-combative or non-agonistic but in which a lot of information and ideas and emotions are shared? I'm also on Annie Finch's WOM-PO list and the difference between these two lists is like night and day. I mean hey, I have my kill-the-father days too, but maybe there's a way we can butt heads a little less and be more constructive? My last comment is that I think we all need to be willing to admit we're wrong sometimes. I mean, I think that's the purpose of a discussion or exchange, whether it's within a group or between individuals, and the purpose of poetry really, to change and be changed by writing. We don't always have to "win." Best, Tim ------------------------------------------------- As someone who's only posted to the list about three or four times in the past five years, I can't say I'm that nostalgic for knock-down, drag-out fights on the Poetics list--in fact, I've always found them profoundly alienating. I'm bothered by the fetish of "starting an argument" for its own sake, especially when it gets confused with dialogue or community. So maybe there's a reason that some of the "brightest lights" have taken up blogging. I've been blogging for about a year now, and I've found it to be (for me) a much more amenable form in which to think and talk about poetics. And contrary to what often gets said about blogs on this list--that they're "boutiques" where poets get to "listen to the sound of their own voices"--I've always thought of blogging as a much more humble mode of communication. If you want to tune in to my random musings, you can, but they don't land in the inboxes of several hundred people each day. More overheard than heard, I guess. I also like what Chris Murray said about the slower pace of blog discussion--which gives me time to think about what I want to say, and to explain myself at some length; the list tends to make me just react. Contrary to what Ray Bianchi suggested, I think blogs make discussions about poetry more accessible, less "ghettoized," than before. Non-poet friends and colleagues who would never have access to the Poetics list can and do look at blogs, and the odd mix of the public and the private that tends to animate a blog can be more appealing to a general reader. And I have found that blogs can build poetry communities just as effectively as a listserv. I recently moved from the Bay Area to Chicago, and felt like I was able to make contact with poets here right away largely because we were reading each other's blogs. I'm not sure whether Tim Peterson meant his comment that blogs were "re-regionalizing" poetry as a criticism; to the extent that it's true, I don't think it's a bad thing--maybe, like politics, all poetry is local--but if it's giving certain places (San Francisco, Chicago, Boston) a clearer sense of themselves, it's also connecting them to other communities elsewhere. So has the Poetics list changed? Sure, but I don't think blogs are to blame. If anything, the list is kind of a victim of its own success. As it's gotten larger and larger, and become something like an official organ of experimental poetry--become, in short, an institution--it's inevitably become more public and impersonal, more like a bulletin board than a coffee-table conversation. That's an important role, and maybe it's a sign of the strength of a community rather than its weakness. Conversations take all kinds of forms, and they don't all have to involve screaming. Tim Yu _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:32:28 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Todd Swift Subject: Pax Britannica poetry reading, March 31 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable - please forward - Poetry reading launch for 'Pax Britannica: A Hellish Peace' The Aquarium Gallery 10 Woburn Walk, London WC1 7pm-10pm, 31 March 2004 Sponsored by the Stop the War Coalition Hosted by Todd Swift and Val Stevenson, editors www.nthposition.com=20 Pax Britannica will bring together distinguished artists who do not = believe in war as a means towards peace, who deplore organised = aggression and the killing of innocent civilians and soldiers. The exhibition will feature = sculpture, drawings, paintings, photographs and some of the spontaneous = art that was so vivid a feature of the street demonstrations in February = 2003. Artists include: Banksy, Steve Bell, James Boswell, Sir Anthony Caro, = Billy Childish, Richard Hamilton Clifford Harper, Brian Jones, John = Keane, Peter Kennard, Alan Kitching, Jenny Matthews, Jamie Reid, Martin = Rowson, Colin Snowman, Ralph Steadman, Gerald Scarfe, Gee Vaucher. A 14-minute video by Bruce Kent and others will also be shown. Featured Poets: Mimi Khalvati; Patience Agbabi; Adrian Mitchell; Sarah = Maguire; Alexis Lykiard; Pascale Petit; Kevin Higgins; Ruth Fainlight; = Peter Middleton; Caroline Bergvall; Lawrence Upton, and Mr. Social = Control (Will Holloway). ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: from Todd Swift http://www.toddswift.com Poetry editor Nthposition http://www.nthposition.com - apologies for cross-posting - ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:40:27 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: Blog Arguments... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" one final thought for now, and i'm done for the day: perhaps blogs would work best in fact were they to be constructed around the "cabinets of wonder" idea (i'm thinking of lawrence weschler's book on same)... i.e., were they to intensify the very boutique quality that alan finds problematic, in order to create, or approximate, a sense of wonder... which we can always stand more of... just a thought, and maybe i'm entirely off-base here... btw, and just for instance, i'm finding *this* discussion provocative and engaging if only b/c we've managed, what, a dozen or more posts together in less than 24 hrs. on a single topic or topic set, and w/o a meltdown... /// joe ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:10:45 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tim Peterson Subject: potential incongruities Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Thursday, March 4, 11:52 AM Hey, I just took this Quizilla quiz, and it says I'm RONALD REAGAN! How 'bout that? That's pretty silly! Wow, I sure have a toothache today. My girlfriend says its gangrene but then I went to the store and they said it must be a terrified flea dislodged in my cerebellum. A terrified flea! That's what they said! I was chuckling all the way back to the nail-biter factory. Omigod! Sex and the City is ending! Click _here_! I disagree with _Ted's_ assessment of _Lonnie's_ argument against _Mark's_ clear description of Hank Thungworst as a Loophole poet, stemming off of _Dingo's_ critique of Serrault. Loopholism defies permanence with its sorry guises of "flipness" and "bigamy," and in no way edges upon Langpo's cool slinging of dialogic nuance. Books received: The Lone Apostrophe, by Cari Smithson Overalls Incorporated, by Doo Doo Barkley Hooknose, by Swan Igneous Docket It's the 4th inning, and the Sox are winning 5 to nothing! The April issue of _Eat My Suckhole_ is out! Featuring poems by Fool Harridan, Goodnight Pecker, Funky Template Sock, Dog Humper, and many many more! Please send $346 dollars postpaid to _Cankersore Press_. For a while now I have been reading the work of Snook Hansen, a master of the modern lyric form. Snook's incessant drambling has been a clincher in the development of the Snot poets, that is poets who address the metaphysical qualities of "snot" as a critique of the L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E movement. In these lines, Snook disengages from partial critique and mires himself in syllogisms of want and waste. Here is my latest crush list: 1. Spanky Crimson Feeler 2. Odelay Johnsmythe 3. Pretending Fililbuster 4. Frump Hoop Shoopy-Doo 5. Shoop Shop Hoop Shoopy 6. Oh, Flippy Floppy shop! 7. Thanks also to my good friend Penumbra 8. Gargling with Saline 9. Apartments on the Rue Morgue 10. Heavy Ducks _________________________________________________________________ Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 1 month FREE! (Limited-time Offer) http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:56:45 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: HAITIAN HISTORY LESSON w QUESTION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reading the NY Times coverage last night there was strangely no mention again of who the "revolutionaries" were. They weren't even giving names. There was a complete page devoted to the "revolution" but almost no information was given. I did note a few crucial clues -- the "revolutionaries" were having their press conferences from Petionville -- an elegant suburb of Port-au-Prince where many houses have swimming pools and BMWs in driveways in stark contrast to the rest of Haiti. This is where the Duvaliers lived. What appears to have happened is that Aristide wasn't playing ball with American or European business people and they wanted him out and have decided to go back to the Duvalierist regime where nobody has any rights, but at least the corrupt government in power didn't attempt to interfere with the international corporations who are sucking the goods out of Haiti, and usually not paying taxes in return. So the only source of money is American government aid for the military, and some church money filtering in through often corrupt local sources. There are also a lot of drug transfers from the Southern American sources apparently and no doubt that has produced a few local millionaires, and they probably have something to do with this "revolution" too. But I think the main thing is that Aristide hasn't been playing ball. He's a purist, and "doesn't compromise" as one US official put it. When I did research on Haiti some 15 years ago I was really trying to understand Andre Breton's role in a revolutionary uprising in the 1950s that led indirectly to the rise of Duvalier, and didn't stray too far from that agenda, so I don't know many of the contemporary "faces" in Haiti. I did get a sense of how intractable the political situation is there, and admired Aristide's willingness to try to clean up that Augean stable. I also got a sense of how the Jacobin background of their political milieu has led to a perpetual bloodbath as it did during the French revolution. There is no sense of a trust for your political enemies. Then, there's zombification for some, and having to pay off witch doctors to prevent zombification, there's an incredible AIDS rate, rape of villagers is common by the police, and to try to do anything to change the situation is obviously dangerous. And yet an interesting literature comes out of there. I really liked Graham Greene's novel The Comedians -- set during Papa Doc's revolution. Brent, I wasn't able to open your link. Thanks for it, though. -- Kirby. ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > I'll keep my nickel, thank you. I only have a few of them. > > The "revolutionaries" are familiar faces to any who have followed events in > Haiti in recent decades. One of them, for instance, was convicted for the > murder of the Attorney General of Haiti's only freely elected government. > > On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 16:34:42 +0000, Kirby Olson wrote: > > > Aldon -- got any guesses as to the question of who these "revolutionaries" > are? > > > > I would be willing to bet you a nickel that they are not Marxists. > > > > -- Kirby > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 13:25:43 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Start an Argument on the Buffalo List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Since I am more or less new to the list I continue to naively think that a conversation is possible on the list. I've had a bunch of them, although mostly backchannel. People tend to shriek at me on the front channel. But through backchannel I have had really great conversations with about ten or twenty people, have been contacted by editors, and even got a love letter! For some reason, the front channel doesn't function. Perhaps this is due to the professional nature of it, as Harry Nudel has said. Everybody worried about tenure, and publishing opportunities. I've only been in a few email conversations and it seems to me that everybody ends up nuking everybody else in ways that they wouldn't if they actually knew one another. It seems to promote paranoia, self-righteousness, and other ugly traits. Maybe this is because the people who are prone to these things can't find any kind of conversation anywhere else and so end up on these listservs. I live in a tiny village an hour and a half from any larger city. I don't know anybody here who's interested in the poetry that interests me, so I suppose that for me this list is fairly functional. I imagine that people who have a lot of other options in reality for discussing poetry in cafes or while going for a walk with any number of friends and so on might find this a rather horrible medium. I think if I was in Seattle or Paris I wouldn't have tried it, and would certainly have left by now. Beggars can't be choosers, as they say. I liked Timothy Yu's message a lot. I find it funny though that people who think that they can change the world into one of perfect peace (as many of the poets on this board seem to imagine that we can do without war!) are often so completely nasty. Pol Pot thought he was a wonderful man until the day he died. John Lennon probably did, too. I take it as a given that people are complete monsters, and this board usually verifies my sense of this, so I like it well enough. -- Kirby Timothy Yu wrote: > As someone who's only posted to the list about three or four times in > the past five years, I can't say I'm that nostalgic for knock-down, > drag-out fights on the Poetics list--in fact, I've always found them > profoundly alienating. I'm bothered by the fetish of "starting an > argument" for its own sake, especially when it gets confused with > dialogue or community. > > Conversations take all kinds of forms, and > they don't all have to involve screaming. > > Tim Yu > http://tympan.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 13:26:40 -0500 Reply-To: jennifer@poetrysociety.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "jennifer@poetrysociety.org" Subject: CIRCUMFERENCE responds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends,=20 As many of you know =93The U=2ES=2E Treasury Department's Office of Foreig= n=20 Assets Control recently declared that American publishers cannot edit work= s authored in nations under trade embargoes which include Iran, Iraq, Sudan,= Libya and Cuba=2E=94 As the editors of CIRCUMFERENCE, a journal of poetry in translation founde= d on principles of free and open exchange, we want to respond to this issue in the most direct way that we can=2E We would like to dedicate a substant= ial section of our next issue to poetry from these countries=2E We are firm in our belief that not only do we have the right to do this, but that translators working from the languages of these countries are providing an incomparable and necessary service to audiences in this country=2E Cross-cultural exchange through poetry and translation is a for= ce to be reckoned with=2E We are writing in the hope that you will assist us in this effort in any way you can: by helping us to gather work for the issue, by recommending translators working on the poetry of these languages, by sending us your own translations, and by spreading the word about this project=2E The issue is projected to go to press in early summer=2E We will collect translations through mid-April=2E CIRCUMFERENCE publishes all poems in the= original language alongside the English translation, so please ask translators to send the original along as well=2E For more information abo= ut CIRCUMFERENCE, visit our website at www=2Ecircumferencemag=2Ecom=2E Thanks so much for your support and for any suggestions you might have=2E With best wishes, Stefania Heim & Jennifer Kronovet Editors editors@circumferencemag=2Ecom --=20 CIRCUMFERENCE P=2EO=2E Box 27 New York, NY 10159-0027 www=2Ecircumferencemag=2Ecom -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:52:41 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Bechtel Subject: Re: HAITIAN HISTORY LESSON w QUESTION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here's the text - if interested - -Brent ===== Aristide has gone, the death squads are back, and on the streets the looters rule The man once dubbed the Haitian Mandela has left anarchy in his wake Gary Younge in Port-au-Prince Monday March 1, 2004 The Guardian For the past few days the Haitian capital, Port-au-Prince, has been growing accustomed to a gruesome ritual. As night falls the streets empty in fear of the wrath of the chimeres - armed pro-Aristide gangs - on looting and shooting sprees. As day breaks, people emerge to see where the bodies have been left. Corpses can lie here for days until someone clears them up. "It costs 300 Haitian dollars [£21]," said a resident, Jocelyn, as she spread disinfectant outside Christ the King secretarial college on Saturday morning, where a body had lain for two days. "I don't know who it is because they took all his money and papers." But yesterday the sun rose to a new reality. The president, Jean-Bertrand Aristide, was gone, and, as word filtered out, the morning was punctuated by gunfire in the capital while others danced on the street in the rebel stronghold of Cap Haitien. Mr Aristide leaves behind a nation riven by civil war, paralysed by social chaos and crushed by poverty. The man once hailed as the "Haitian Mandela" is now branded a dictator. The priest has become the pariah. This is the second time he has been forced to leave the country at gunpoint, but no one expects him to be returning any time soon. Those seeking a straightforward trajectory from good to evil will not find one in Mr Aristide. He was never that sort of leader and Haiti has never been that sort of country. The very messianic qualities that greeted his ascent - in 1990, on being first elected, he found the people sweeping the roads before him with palm fronds - contributed to his downfall. Death squads The leaders of the death squads Mr Aristide disbanded now control much of the country and prepare to march on the capital. The country that assisted his return 10 years ago, the United States, encouraged him to leave. His political fortunes have been turned upside down. In a country where the media is either unreliable or unavailable, fear travels faster than fact. Early yesterday morning the chimeres stopped journalists to ask if the rumours about Mr Aristide's departure were true. Within an hour they were shooting at the press, blaming them for besmirching their president's name. Two days of relative calm preceded a storm of looting, murder and mayhem. Police guarding Haiti's main prison near the National Palace ran away, some discarding their uniforms to avoid detection. The jail emptied. An estimated 2,000 inmates, including murderers, melted into the crowds. Looters hit a police station in Petionville, an upscale suburb of the capital, carting away police hats, T-shirts, helmets and other bits of police uniforms. On a main thoroughfare, a barricade of burning tyres sent up a wall of thick black smoke. Aristide supporters added more tyres to fuel the fire. Haiti has had more than 30 coups and 19 years of American occupation in a 200-year history blighted by dictatorship at home and international isolation. Mr Aristide, for most of his political life, espoused social justice and practised the politics of authoritarianism. As a radical priest in the 1980s, he called capitalism a "mortal sin" and encouraged his flock in the shantytown of La Saline to do the holy work of fighting repressive regimes. But he also praised the smell of burning tyres - a reference to the "necklacing" where supporters hung flaming tyres on opponents' necks. In 1988 the Salesians expelled him from their order, accusing him of inciting violence and exalting class struggle. But at a time when liberation theology was in vogue throughout central America, what worried the Catholic church endeared him to the Haitian people. In 1990 he won a democratic election with a landslide. Before he could be inaugurated he had to first see off a coup attempt. Before his first year was out he had been overthrown and exiled to the US. Many of those who now oppose him say that those characteristics that made him a popular priest also made him an awful politician; he neither compromised nor made strategic alliances, but laid down the law and expected it to be followed. "He hasn't changed," said Jean-Claude Bajeux, the director of the Ecumenical Centre for Human Rights, and Mr Aristide's former minister of culture. "We made the mistake of thinking he was a political leader. But he does not know or understand what a political party is for." Mr Aristide's three-year exile in Washington DC altered his politics and he sought to accommodate US interests. But if his own personal failings sowed the seeds of his demise, then the circumstances of his return fertilised them. He had little leeway to improve the economic conditions of the poorest country in the western hemisphere, while in a nation more accustomed to the bullet than the ballot, he had no army to fall back on. "If you have a populist without a real agenda, you're feeding a demagogue," commented Lawrence Pezzullo, a former US special envoy to Haiti. As unrest grew, Mr Aristide relied increasingly on armed gangs. The name of his party, Lavalas, is Creole for torrential floods. In the 2000 legislative elections the party did sweep away everything before it, committing widespread fraud that lead to a freeze on millions of dollars in aid. Despite winning the presidential elections in the autumn of 2000 with 92% of the vote, Mr Aristide had by then lost much of his democratic legitimacy. It led swiftly led to instability and then insurrection. Last month the rebels seized several towns, many of which the government took back with the help of armed gangs. When, last week, the rebels took the second largest town of Cap Haitien and refused to negotiate, it was clear Mr Aristide had lost his authority. The question now is what will replace him. The political opposition is a broad-based coalition of students, human rights activists and business people. The armed opposition is run by former death-squad leaders. Having achieved their primary aim of getting rid of Mr Aristide there is little they will agree on. Meanwhile Port-au-Prince is like a military garrison. The sun has set on Mr Aristide's political career. It remains to be seen whether it will rise on someone better. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirby Olson" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 11:56 AM Subject: Re: HAITIAN HISTORY LESSON w QUESTION > Brent, I wasn't able to open your link. Thanks for it, though. > > -- Kirby. > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:17:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU Subject: Gary & Nada Reading in Providence, March 9! Comments: To: Brent Bechtel In-Reply-To: <000901c40087$8b490560$0a2b1e43@k6k12c9frvhhz6p> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi everyone, For those of you who happen to be in the Providence, RI area on March 9th, Michael Gizzi and I will be hosting the second reading in our new Downcity Poetry Series: Gary Sullivan and Nada Gordon! Tazza 250 Westminster St., Providence, RI Tuesday, March 9th, 7pm vallet parking! (really!) Hope to see some of you below. A li'l info below on our reader's meteoric careers.... -m. Nada Gordon was born in California, studied alternative poetries in the Bay Area (at SFSU and beyond), and wrote an M.A. thesis on Bernadette Mayer at U.C. Berkeley. In 1988, she moved to Japan, where she taught English, wrote textbooks, sang in a band, studied butoh, and co-edited a magazine, AYA. She moved to Brooklyn in 1999. Author of More Hungry, lip, Rodomontade, Koi Maneuver and v.imp, she incorporates elements of movement, song, and vocal manipulation into her performances. Poet and cartoonist Gary Sullivan is the author of How to Proceed in the Arts (Faux Press) among numerous other publications. He and Gordon edited the Poetry Project Newsletter in 2003. Gary and Nada are frequent collaborators and, as Publisher’s Weekly has said, “the duo's tour-de-force is surely Swoon, an electronic literary courtship that spirals into real life…In March of 1998, Nada posted a query on a poetry discussion list, and Gary replied ‘backchannel,’ asking if she were the same person who went by ‘gordon’ and lived in San Francisco years earlier. Amid Sullivan's disintegrating marriage in New York and Gordon’s failing Tokyo relationship, the two produced the equivalent of 5,000 manuscript pages over the course of a year as they traded quips, seductions, likes and dislikes, ideas about aesthetics, sexual preferences, photos, poems and poetry gossip, worries, fears and neuroses, plans for visits and the failure of love at first sight and its aftermath. It makes for the most true-to-life literary love story since Robert Browning and Elizabeth Barrett hit Florence.” Gary and Nada are also the Ma and Pa Kettle of a new poetry movement called “Flarf” –– of which more when you come to hear them in person! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 15:25:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "St. Thomasino" Subject: blog v. list re: community / arguments re: romantic re: poet in exile Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit remember this? silence. exile. cunning. toward whom (toward what--the establishment?) does it apply any more? how about: no meters, no counters, no gathering of intelligence. why would anyone want to do this, this "gathering of intelligence"? how is this radical? how is this progressive? how is this avant-garde? no meters, no counters, no gathering of intelligence. use your intuition! if you don't develop it now, you won't have it when you need it. (and you're gonna need it soon!) no meters, no counters, no gathering of intelligence. the only real feedback is by direct communication! gregory vincent st. thomasino http://thepostmodernromantic.blogspot.com/ the postmodern romantic ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:26:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Blog Arguments... In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit "Cabinets of Wonder." Weren't these also called "cabinets of curiosity"? Rectilinear honeycombs of found objects elucidating the spectacle of found objects brought home from 16th century voyages of discovery. Revelation and illumination of the previously unknown - sometimes no doubt new knowledge conflated with ownership. (I got you, e.g. Fijii Islanders, by more than your curious skull and its measurements). So, I would suggest, Joe, that that the cabinet/blog analog is not on the mark here, in that the cabinet "exoticized" the stranger, often perhaps with an allure towards possession and control. I think blogs enable something opposite of that. An intimacy, of an inside speaker/image maker (the blogger) looking out as well as invitation to look in at the process of ones' (the blogger) looking out. Read today's intimate accounts on "Bagdad Burning" juxtaposed with the CNN/NY Times horrific accounts of yesterday's bombings and a world becomes much more particular, persuasive and real. The "boutique" analogy, not yours, Joe, also falls short. The street boutique is motivated primarily by sales, as it must to survive. Most bookstores, for example, do not encourage lengthy conversations between the employee and the person off the street. The mandate to sell shades the amount of time for any "non sale," public dialog. Blogs are self-publishing agencies and my sense is that they mimic every historic feature of any kind of publishing from gossip columnist gushing, high toned editorial judgements, reviews, the daily news, etc., complete with "letters to the editor". Ironically a number of the pieces on my blog have been picked for publication on either other online mags or in "hard copy." In fact I think the difference in reading something online compared to reading the same thing in print can be very instructive. Is it more "real" when reproduced "in print." Is it considered more legitimate to have have work grounded and designed in pulp? Or in public performance? I think there is a dance going on here between blog, print and performance where each one is pushing the other. Personally I remain a book person - tangibles for me, indeed, are more real. But I concede that monitors may ultimately rule, or, at least, become a unique medium unto themselves, as aura filled as I find books. Clearly the internet - at this time - is in full democratic flush. To the degree that blogs have a public intention, it will be curious to see if and what point exhaustion depletes the impulse, and what point financial (income) considerations begin to shape a form that can requires much labor. In the case of poetry blogs, I suspect, the fate of many will reflect the history of many small presses - a hot form of dialog in generational moment and then gone or, alternatively, often institutionalized within the non-profit support system. Just guessing here. "Forums" and the various "lists" are related gestures and solutions, not competitive but a mimic of other public, non-digital formats. What's wonderful to me about all of this is the Internet's engagement of a much broader and more serendipitous audience - contacts in a previous generation that would have required being in the same City, University or a pilgrimage to either. Blogs reshuffle possible ways to view and review and participate in the traditional hierarchy of hard copy magazine and book publication, as well as the context of teaching. No one, obviously, is going to disappear. A Helen Vendler probably continues to promote and shape which poets get teaching jobs where, and, if not, Vendler, x, y. and z others will fill that role. Yet the blogs and the lists, at best, will operate as a shadow government, stimulating the new and questioning the orthodox (such as is the best of small magazines and presses). Undoubtedly those anxious for tenure or employment will be understandably publicly timid but such is ever the same. And the ones that are most innovative and young now will be employed variously later. The wheel moves on. Stephen V - who's blog is very quiet at the moment. Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com on 3/2/04 9:40 AM, Joe Amato at jamato2@ILSTU.EDU wrote: > one final thought for now, and i'm done for the day: perhaps blogs > would work best in fact were they to be constructed around the > "cabinets of wonder" idea (i'm thinking of lawrence weschler's book > on same)... i.e., were they to intensify the very boutique quality > that alan finds problematic, in order to create, or approximate, a > sense of wonder... > > which we can always stand more of... > > just a thought, and maybe i'm entirely off-base here... btw, and just > for instance, i'm finding *this* discussion provocative and engaging > if only b/c we've managed, what, a dozen or more posts together in > less than 24 hrs. on a single topic or topic set, and w/o a > meltdown... > > /// > > joe ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:43:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian VanHeusen Subject: Re: Start A Fight.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed kick 'em in the ass end kung-fuie beat-boxing style tasser tap and black mail their apostrophes with political scandal. ________________________________________________ Policies dangerously increase. >From: Harry Nudel >Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Start A Fight.. >Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:33:04 -0500 > >Me? Moi? >maybe with myself... > >blah blah blah > >ferocious conformity >socio ambiguity... > >the more ed.. >the plus plus brain washed.. > >rinse it out >spin dry fold > >follow the left >left left gauche > >blah blah blag >blog bleeder > >drn.. _________________________________________________________________ Create a Job Alert on MSN Careers and enter for a chance to win $1000! http://msn.careerbuilder.com/promo/kaday.htm?siteid=CBMSN_1K&sc_extcmp=JS_JASweep_MSNHotm2 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:55:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fulcrum Annual Organization: Fulcrum Annual Subject: Fulcrum poetry reading at KGB Bar, NY, on March 24 -- please forward MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A Celebration of Fulcrum: an annual of poetry and aesthetics Wednesday, March 24, 7 p.m. @ Manhattan's KGB Bar, 85 E 4th Street (b/w Bowery & 2nd Avenue) Info: (212) 505-3360 Fulcrum: an annual of poetry and aesthetics is an international serial anthology of poetry and of critical and philosophical essays on poetry. It aims to offer a map of what is most important and vibrant in the current poetic process throughout the English-speaking world, with occasional detours into other lands. Reading participants: Jonathan Ames is the author of five books. His most recent, Wake Up, Sir!, will be published by Scribner in July. Billy Collins is a recent Poet Laureate of the United States and the author of numerous collections of poetry. Glyn Maxwell was born in Hertfordshire, England, and now lives in NY City. He is the author of several books of poetry, including The Breakage and The Nerve (both Houghton Mifflin), and the poetry editor of The New Republic. He teaches at Princeton and Columbia. Philip Nikolayev is the author of Monkey Time (2001 Verse Prize) and co-editor of Fulcrum. Katia Kapovich is the author of five books of Russian poetry. A collection of her English language poems, Gogol in Rome, is forthcoming from Salt later this year. She is co-editor of Fulcrum. Ben Mazer's poetry appears in leading international literary magazines (Agenda, Fulcrum, Jacket, Salt, Stand, Verse, etc.). He is the editor of the Collected Poems of John Crowe Ransom (Handsel Books, 2005) and of an anthology of the Berkeley Renaissance forthcoming in Fulcrum no. 3. Jeet Thayil is the author of English (Penguin/Rattapallax, 2004). His poems have appeared in Verse, Stand, Agenda, Fulcrum and London Magazine, among others journals. He lives in New York City, where he works as an editor and writer. Mark Lamoureux's work has appeared in Jubilat, Lungful!, Carve, Fulcrum, Art New England, Agni and others. His chapbook, 29 Cheeseburgers, was released by Boston's Pressed Wafer in 2004. Another chapbook, City/Temple, was published by Ugly Duckling Presse in 2003. He is the managing editor of Fulcrum. John Hennessy's poems have appeared or are forthcoming in Fulcrum, The Yale Review, Salt, Ontario Review, New Letters, Washington Square and other journals. His book manuscript, Bridge and Tunnel, is presently making the rounds of publishers. He teaches creative writing and literature at the University of Massachusetts. Andrew McCord's poems have appeared recently in various magazines, including The Pairs Review and Fulcrum. He is also a translator and publisher of Alef Books. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:19:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: FW: San Francisco Foundation Fellowship Program MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wanted to let you all know that the San Francisco Foundation is currently seeking applicants for their Multicultural Fellowship Program, a two-year full-time program whose goal is the development of professionals in the nonprofit and public sectors. The focus of the program is to provide young professionals of color, early in their carrers, with work experiences and opportunities in the areas of grantmaking and community building in the San Francisco Bay Area and to enhance their professional development as future foundation, nonprofit or public service leaders. They are recruiting for fellows in the following programs: Arts and Culture; Community Health; Social Justice; Education; Neighborhood and Community Development. Only one fellow for each program will be selected. The eligibility requirements are listed as: College graduates, graduate level completed preferred (this is a preference, not a requirement) Representing diverse backgrounds and communities Experienced in the nonprofit sector Dedicated to a career in philanthropy, nonprofits or service Compensation is $39,520 - $44,720 annually. The application deadline is March 31, 2004 with the fellowships set to begin in August 2004 for the Arts and Culture and Community Health programs and October 2004 for the others. A one-time-only information sesion wil be held at the San Francisco Foundation on Monday, March 15th @3:00 p.m. If you'd like to attend this meeting, RSVP to 415.733.8590 by Friday March 12th. To apply, submit a resume & cover letter to the San Francisco Foundation, indicating the specific program you're applying to. Applications can be sent to: Fellowship Coordinator The San Francisco Foundation 225 Bush Street, Suite 500 San Francisco, CA 94104 fax: 415.477.2783 email: fellowship@sff.org Here's a URL as well: http://www.sff.org/about/multicultural.html Alumni from this program have gone on to do some terrific things, and this is a unique & rewarding professional development experience and I hope that some of you will consider applying. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Khan Wong Grants for the Arts/San Francisco Hotel Tax Fund City Hall, Rm. 347 San Francisco, CA 94102 415.554.6710 phone 415.554.6711 fax khan.wong@sfgov.org www.sfgfta.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 00:21:04 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karl-Erik Tallmo Subject: Dennis across ninth street Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" seventh street rise reason sped more income case sea seen seen across summ onecar used more been rise thin goes same narrow commd. Dennis mill summ reason examine ninth free even wom even onecar, car summon ninth rise same street used Dennis more examine mill reason summ summon income across income sea across seen 1995 onecar more summon rise seven case commd. Dennis does even even examine examine free goes income income mill more more narrow narrow ninth ninth onecar onecar reason reason rise rise same same sea seen seen seen seven sped street summ summ summ summon thin summon summ summ been seen seen seen even even thin examine examine summon summon summon reason reason onecar onecar does go Dennis across across street narrow narrow /Karl-Erik Tallmo _________________________________________________________________ KARL-ERIK TALLMO, poet, writer, artist, journalist MAGAZINE: http://art-bin.com ARTWORK, WRITINGS etc.: http://www.nisus.se/tallmo/ __________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:46:12 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gcycho1 Subject: Chicago reading on Friday Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chicago poets Erica Bernheim, Amy Fetzer Larakers, and Kristy Odelius will be reading from their work this Friday, March 5, at 6:00 P.M. at the new Barbara's Bookstore, 1218 S. Halsted, in Chicago. No charge. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:18:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Salerno Subject: Mark Salerno: The Read Till You Bleed Tour In-Reply-To: <000701c400ac$bf95ffb0$220110ac@CADALY> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Colleagues: I wanted to alert you to my upcoming reading tour. I'll be visiting=20 five cities in five nights. Please join me. Best, Mark Salerno ***** March 17 =97 New Orleans Gold Mine Saloon 701 Dauphine Street New Orleans, LA 70116 504-586-0745 8:00 p.m. March 18 =97 Atlanta Eyedrum Art & Music Gallery 290 MLK Jr Drive, Ste. 8 Atlanta, GA 30212 404-522-0655 9:00 p.m. March 19 =97 Chapel Hill Sizl Gallery 405-A E. Main Street Carrboro, North Carolina 27510 919-960-0098 7:30 p.m. March 20 =97 Philadelphia The Philly Sound Reading Series La Tazza D'Art Coffee House 108 Chestnut Street (in Old City between 2nd and Front Streets) Philadelphia, PA 19106 215-922-7322 7:00 p.m. March 21 =97 New York City Zinc Bar 90 West Houston Street (at LaGuardia & Thompson) New York, NY 10012 212-477-8337 7:00 p.m. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:22:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fulcrum Annual Organization: Fulcrum Annual Subject: poets Eric Baus and Philip Nikolayev to read in Amherst, MA on March 4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reading by Verse Press poets Eric Baus and Philip Nikolayev March 4, 8:00 PM Amherst Books 8 Main St. Amherst, MA Info: 413-256-1547 Eric Baus has channeled the consciousness of migratory animals, of a collective self, of others, of objects. He has written an open letter from a marvelous land just beside this one, a place of interior wonder and intimate noise. It's The To Sound (Verse Press): bent, exuberant notes that will wake you up wherever you are. Philip Nikolayev's new collection of poems, Monkey Time, won the 2001 Verse Prize and was published by Verse Press in 2003. He co-edits Fulcrum: an annual of poetry and aesthetics. His poems have also appeared in such journals as The Paris Review, Grand Street, Verse, Stand, Jacket, and many others across the English-speaking world. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:25:31 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ela kotkowska Subject: Poetic Dialogue (Chicago) Comments: To: Discussion of Women's Poetry List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit POETIC DIALOGUE P o e t r y : W o m e n : A r t a collaboration of Chicago artists and national poets Show dates: March 3-27 Poetry Reading, Artist Panel & Discussion: March 26, 7-9:30 P.M. ARC GALLERY 734 N Milwaukee Avenue Chicago, IL 60622 312-733-2787 www.arcgallery.org Gallery Hours: WED-SAT 12-6; SUN 12-4 POETS: Jan Beatty, Robin Behn, Marilyn Chin, Lois Roma-Deeley, Margaret Rozga, Judith Vollmer ARTISTS: Melanie Adcock, Granite Amit, Kina Bagovska, Laura Cloud, Kathleen Dugan, Iris Goldstein, Kristina Gosh, Carolyne King, Kelly Lemoi, Arlene Levey, Lynnette O. Mohill, Patricia Otto, Charlotte Segal, Beth Shadur, Michele Stutts, Deva Suckerman, Mirjana Ugrinov, Ralitza Vladimirov, Kelly Weime, Amy Zucker ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 00:27:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Of Horror MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Of Horror When did you last see a cute cheerful schoolgirl When did you last see her dentistry reverts portal flora chant When did you see last pleasure You might have seen it before centigrade mutative undeclared psychic shopper come inside and watch how it happens. electric retiree pesticide wheelings manners, all characters - meet the yummiest When did you last see her _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 00:28:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: DANCERUN.MPG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII DANCERUN.MPG 175 megabytes Foofwa d'Imobilite / Geneva Alan Sondheim / Brooklyn sound 17 minutes http://www.asondheim.org/DANCERUN.MPG _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 23:15:08 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: POSTS VS BLOGS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Moments & Memories sex at best builds=20 character character at best builds memories memories at best build journals journals at best build moments moments at best build sex sex at best builds character... =20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 07:24:13 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: Blog Arguments... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" jeepers, i post 7 kb on blog/anti-blog and only 1 tiny kb on "wonder cabinets," and now i have to make good on the latter, which i dashed off in haste w/o really thinking about it much... well i'll give it a go, and remind readers of what anselm hollo posted here not long ago about poetry being a "dangerous toy" (he was quoting someone else, yes?): indeed, stephen, you've sent me back to weschler's ~mr. wilson's cabinet of wonder: pronged ants, horned humans, mice on toast, and other marvels of jurassic technology~ (i have the 96 vintage pb)... both "wonder cabinets" and "cabinets of curiosity," yes... weschler's book, you may know, concerns l.a.'s museum of jurassic technology (curated by david wilson, who has since won a macarthur)... in fact the point weschler is making has less to do with possession or exoticizing than with the potential for invoking a different understanding of knowledge and knowledge-making... for weschler, wilson's museum undermines authority, authenticity and the like, in a postmodern or premodern vein... now certainly the internet has at one level always constituted an outside to established lines of authority---this is clearly its imagined locus for some (like yours truly), but i would argue also that its challenge to insider-isms *can be* very real... perhaps less real in some sense than a decade ago, but when i think about moveon.org, more real... and if blogs constitute a further challenge to those authorities that tend to dominate the (discursive) real, very well then... there might be a problem with this too, for that matter, but i'm all for democratic participation as against "tell the rabble to be quite/we anticipate a riot"... in any case, how does this challenge to authority come about?... i suspect, but can only suspect, that we underestimate the capacity of our rhetorics to elicit something like wonder ("wonder" is an interesting word in this regard, as there are versions of it in numerous languages, but its etymology is entirely mysterious)... for me wonder points to what we can't quite explain... and sometimes, once in a great while, "i can't explain" (i have the rock lyric in my mind, yes) leads to a new kind of engagement with the real... wonder (among other things) might be the basis for an affirmative form of resistance... ergo my sense that blogs may become performative sites for the articulation/dissemination of new, or certainly, other, kinds of interiority... i almost believe, w/o thinking too awful hard about it, that the heteronaut movement might find its proper home in blogville... a very static read, i grant you, and i think, in thinking about it more, that it's something of a stupid, if not stubborn, stretch to conceive of one's interiority as being "put on display" in order to elicit, what did i say? oh yeah---wonder... but then again, i'm feeling a bit put on display even *here*, and that's never stopped me from waxing stubborn, if not stupid... have i fetishized my, uhm, self?... i wonder (sorry)... thus far poetry blogs do seem, in any case, to be about exposition, to judge by the interiorities thereby exhibited (whether or not they include poetry and the like)... i.e., most blogs i visit are explictly trying to persuade me to think a certain way about such & so (about, say, BLOGS), much as i'm trying to persuade in this post (oh, yeah, and entertain a bit too, if you don't mind)... and that's one kind of performance, perhaps indeed the kind with which i'm myself most comfy, most drawn to, inasmuch as i seem to be drawn to dialogue (ergo my desire to see more of same *here*)... i write poetry, i think, for other kinds of reasons (dialogue too though)... the tyranny of dialogue notwithstanding, i'll take it any day over mum's-the-word rhetorics, which i get plenty of, thank you very much, as a bureaucrat-academic... anyway, if you go at it from the perspective of self-publishing, or publishing selves, well i can't see as how that won't ultimately peter out, as you suggest, b/c one has only so much time to write, let alone eat, and the charm of that variant of self-publishing is bound to wear off over time---i mean, on an hourly or daily or weekly basis, depending what your blog sked is... doesn't mean folks shouldn't (or won't continue to) blog... and i could be wrong here, in any case---perhaps many of you have a greater stomach than i reckon for putting your pixeled interiority(ies) on display (as opposed, i mean, to directly attempting dialogue and exchange, as i'm trying my goddamnedest to do at the moment, again), and less of an appetite for... food?... persuasion?... self-possession?... then again--- best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:46:51 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: P.C...and Appeal for Funds for Ibn El-Amin Pasha.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit March/3/04....NYTIMES... "The man, James Coleman, 35, is accused of killing Shani Baraka, 31, and Rayshon Holmes, of Irvington. Mr Coleman, also known as Ibn El-Amin Pasha, is the estranged husband of another Baraka daughter, Wanda Wilson Pasha, who shared the Piscataway house where the shootings occurred with her sister, Ms. Baraka." So in this world..the wife is Wanda Wilson Pasha.. but the husband is James Coleman,..NOT Ibn El- Amin Pasha...& Baraka is Baraka..not aka LeRoi Jones..or stein is steen is stone... "Amina Baraka, the mother of Shani Baraka and Wanda Pasha, said: "We only want justice but sometimes it is not always clear what justice is when you are black in this country. We want him to have a fair trial now, and i just hope he spends the rest of of his natural life in jail" An emergency committee is being formed to raise money for Ibn El-Amin Pasha's defense...we are hoping to get Johnny Cochrine to take the case...just another example where a powerful wealthy politically connected family can use its influence.. we are also concerned that Ibn El-Amin Pasha cannot get justice from STUART KAPLAN..the country prosecutor.. thru the llookking glass..drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:18:49 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Silliman - McClure @ St Marks TONIGHT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael McClure & Ron Silliman Wednesday, March 3, 8 PM St. Marks Poetry Project, NYC Ron Silliman's life can be viewed in real-time on his weblog, ronsilliman.blogspot.com (which has now been visited more than 100,000 times). His 25th book, Woundwood, is forthcoming from Cuneiform Press. Others include the anthology, In the American Tree, a book of essays and talks on poetics, The New Sentence, and Ketjak, Tjanting, The Age of Huts, What, (R), Demo to Ink, ABC, and Paradise. He lives just south of Valley Forge in Pennsylvania and works as a market analyst in the computer industry. Michael McClure is a poet, novelist, essayist, and playwright, and the author of Hymns to St. Geryon, Dark Brown, Ghost Tantras, Rare Angel, Scratching the Beat Surface, Selected Poems, Huge Dreams, Rain Mirror, and Plum Stones: Cartoons of No Heaven, among many others. He published his first book, Passage, in 1956, a year after the legendary Six Gallery reading. He won an Obie for Josephine the Mouse Singer, and his notorious play The Beard was shut down by police after 14 consecutive nights in LA. He is a Professor at California College of Arts and Crafts, and lives in the San Francisco Bay Area hills with his wife, the sculptor Amy Evans McClure. [8:00 pm] * The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:55:14 -0500 Reply-To: Mike Kelleher Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Kelleher Organization: Just Buffalo Literary Center Subject: New Just Buffalo Website MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just Buffalo has a new website: http://www.justbuffalo.org. Just Buffalo Literary Events Workshops Writers in Education Program (under construction) Writer's Links (Writers Resources, Publications, Contests, Literary Centers) Membership Info Organization Info Please share this link with anyone you think might want it and feel free to link to it from your site. This site is still very much in process. We welcome feedback about the content of the site, as well as its userfriendliness. If you would like to add a publication, organization, contest, conference, resource, etc. to the list of writer links, please write Mike Kelleher (information below). _______________________________ Mike Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center 2495 Main St., Ste. 512 Buffalo, NY 14214 716.832.5400 716.832.5710 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk@justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:14:20 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Blog Arguments... Comments: To: jamato2@ILSTU.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When blogs first appeared (at least when I first became aware of their=20 existence through an argument Gary Sullivan was involved in), I was fascinat= ed by=20 them. Here were writers putting out their daily thoughts, and I could respon= d to=20 any aspect of them which chose. There were also fewer blogs. One could still= =20 explore, pick and choose, etc. I particularly liked those which had a certai= n,=20 or defining obsessions: a few examples, Gary's interest in any subject beyon= d=20 the perimeters of American culture, Jordan Davies's half to himself=20 observations and ruminations, Nada's assertions of a decorative poetry, Case= y's=20 absolutely brilliant -but I think somewhat dogmatic- poetic ruminations, Yep= es's=20 entries, like mine, looking at American poetics from outside. To me, the demise -a mutation- of blogs started with the squawk box. Up to=20 that point, though it was a personal form, reading a blog I could always ass= ume=20 that I could e-mail the writer when something drew me in to their observatio= ns=20 and he or she can respond or open it up to the blog if he or she wanted to.=20 Or I could simply enjoy the blog. With the squawk blog that poetential has b= een=20 relegated to the basement. It created an upstairs and downstairs in the=20 structure of the blog. I, as a reader, could not feel that I was reading or=20 responding to a fellow writer. Since the squawk box was there, the blog writ= er=20 himself or herself also got released of the pressure of a direct (though vir= tual)=20 address. -"You cn leave the message with the maid." It is this double struct= ure=20 of blogs, the "squawk" reminds me of "squaw," basically a put down slang-=20 which changed its intimate nature for me, made it less interesting. Murat In a message dated 3/2/04 11:58:59 AM, jamato2@ILSTU.EDU writes: > i hesitate to post in on this thread, but i do think there are some > fundamental issues at stake in this thread... >=20 > on the one hand, as alan sondheim suggests, blogs are simply part of > a growing online suite---lists, irc, moos, muds, and so forth... and > we'll each be free to pick and choose on the basis of what we like, > technical difficulties notwithstanding... i've never myself much > liked moos/muds, for instance, and i've always gone online primarily > with the intention of seeking out dialogue (as opposed, e.g., to > role-playing, which puts me somewhat at odds with the gaming > communities, and at odds with more performative engagements, and at > odds even with argument as such, though i imagine that all true > dialogue presupposes some degree of conflict, and though i love a > good debate)... >=20 > times have changed---quickly... the web itself changed the internet > irrevocably... while giving us the archive, it seems also to have > given us the ability to archive our lives (i'll set aside the matter > of whether this is symptomatic of other cultural-social-regionalizing > trends)... >=20 > now:=A0=A0 just as some people will be better at dialogue, others will > prove better at archiving, and blogging, and so forth... to be > candid, i don't want to read all of the blogs written by the folks on > this list, not least (and this is one reason why i hesitate to post > on this thread) b/c you all don't express yourselves with equal > aplomb (i am trying to be nice)... but also b/c what you all have to > say, and how you enact/demonstrate what you have to say, doesn't > really interest me... >=20 > this is ok, though, right?---b/c this is what it means to say that > each is free to pick and choose, as above... >=20 > but to zero in a bit:=A0 in point of fact---and again, i'm trying not > to be harsh---i'm much less interested in what ron silliman has to > say about bertolucci (re which i think i can offer up some comments > that are at least as provocative) than in what he has to say about > berkeley and brautigan and the 60s... since i wasn't in berkeley in > the 60s, i find this to be of historical interest to me as a poet... > but there may be another issue at stake here too---i.e., as to why > i'm reading ron on berkeley side-by-side with his remarks on > bertolucci... >=20 > now i'm on the verge of saying something about the current state of > poetry and poetics, but i'll leave that for a book, b/c that's how > much space i need to say it... i certainly don't mean to beat up on > ron---and what's more, even if i DID beat up on ron (sorry for > dragging you into this ron!), he'd still have those 100,000 hits, > right?... which is an odd, or at least different, form of assessment > than we're accustomed to making, when you think about it... >=20 > still, there is one rather elementary observation i'd like to make > here:=A0 and this is that, in part b/c of spam, but also as a > consequence of the larger and larger number of typing anthropoids who > are making their way online, things are getting, well, just a bit > overwhelming, yes?---whether in terms of blogs or in terms of lists > or whatever... one alan sondheim was one thing, ten alan sondheims is > another thing altogether (and here again, not everyone can do what > alan does, so---)... my way of saying, if i may, that attention span > may be a nonrenewable resource, and that quantitative differences can > have qualitative effects... one poetry blog is one thing, 400 poetry > blogs is another thing altogether, and 4000 poetry blogs may be a > sign that we think we're more different (or, uhm, articulate) than we > are... >=20 > i have an argument about this that goes something like:=A0 more readers > turned writers (which has historical precedent)... for another time > maybe... >=20 > to be candid, i think we're reaching something of a breakpoint (or, > another breakpoint, as the web has ushered in several already, it > seems to me) in terms of attention span---which as i see it assumes > only that many of us would like to spend a few hours a day OFFline... > will exploiting new technologies of communication/expression in and > of itself foster a more dialogic poetry/poetics reality?... not > anymore than will this list automatically foster dialogue... >=20 > just look around... >=20 > and there may in fact be limits at work here---functional limits... i > know it's not popular, generally, to discuss limits on this list, but > that the human eye can't see a single frame at 24 frames/second might > prompt us to give some thought as to what a dialogic limit might be, > properly speaking and in terms of something approaching a community... >=20 > anyway... i take it as axiomatic that dialogue is vital to sustaining > a healthy arts environs... i certainly don't mean to suggest that we > shouldn't be exploiting our new technologies---i mean to say that we > would probably do well to bring to our exploits a working sense of > what we hope to achieve vis-a-vis other typing anthropoids... >=20 > and from where i'm sitting, we're coming up a bit short, collectively > speaking... i mean, if only to judge by kari edwards's stated > concerns re the planet (*this* planet)---which may not be the datum > we would want to use on a daily basis, of course, but which does seem > to me a reasonable way of situating our concerns---the online world > as currently articulated is managing, if not to intensify, then > certainly not to mitigate the divide e.g. between art and commerce > (which to my way of thinking ought to be mutually and beneficially > dependent)... and if the commercial, profit-driven possibilities of > the web, say, are permitted to run roughshod over art, well:=A0 i don't > think this bodes well for art OR commerce, never mind whether > distribution of poetry profits in the meantime (b/c as we all know, > just about nobody is getting rich off of poetry---which poets ought > not to use as an excuse for dropping off into a dogmatic slumber)... >=20 > so apologies for putting it this way, but:=A0 attention to the quality > [term used advisedly] of what we're expressing/communicating may be > the only way to offset what i see as these encroaching numbers... by > "quality" i don't necessarily mean stylistic nuance, if that too... > if all i can do here is make an appeal---and all i can do here IS > make an appeal---i would ask, as presumptuous as it may be OF me to > ask, that those of you who imagine your work as bloggers, > discussants, what have you, work even harder to make your words > matter... >=20 > now, you see why i didn't want to post in?... thanks for listening, > at any rate... >=20 > best, >=20 > joe >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:08:47 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Amy King Subject: persecuting the mayors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed ii love her and she loves me. ii love him and he loves me. ii love them and they love we. who will disagree. support gay lesbian straight triangular offbeat upbeat despondent marriages locally. say so outloud to friends family compatriots enemies delinquents upstanding citizens inanimates movers shakers world weary poseurs hard workers soft shoes avant gardists , et al. _________________________________________________________________ Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage – 4 plans to choose from! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:00:27 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: amerika finally waking up In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PLEASE FORWARD!! transdada... http://transdada.blogspot.com/ This is the first time I could ever say I am proud to be an amerikan... I never thought I would ever say that, after years of secret deals, secret and not so ward, lies, sex scandal, partizan bickering, and the slow and subtle silencing of the collective mind of amerika... but now, I am so inspired, I see amerika finally waking up after a long sleep, even if it pits one position against another... everyone is waking up... it is about time amerika... just in the last couple weeks, a mayor in san francisco, and a court in Massachusetts, inspired a revolution. civil disobedience is everywhere; a mayor getting arrested for marring a couple and vowing to do it again. towns, cites and counties across amerika are taking part.. showing up for a new truth on what it means to be free... college campus's, and local news papers in places you might not expect are being defiant. individuals taking heroic stances, defying the state and getting married on the steps of state capital, protest in the street... it is the hot topic on every local, state and nation politician - call them today... inform them, now is the time... call you news papers. write an editorial send something to transdada... http://transdada.blogspot.com/ have small protest wear a pink are band rise the rainbow flag... go out in the street and make some noise so all of amerika.. or the entire world can hear you /us.. no more entrapment and torture for queer... today is as good as any day for a revolution!!! kari 30 new entries in the last three hours.. 65 from yesterday http://transdada.blogspot.com/ Wednesday, March 03, 2004 -Changing Constitution not answer to troubling issue -Spitzer comes out for gays -Gay Marriages Nixed In Chicago -Bush's backfire -Gay Ceremony Performed At Little Rock Capitol -200 rally for same-sex marriage -UISG passes on gay marriage Resolution opposed Bush's ban -West Hollywood moves closer to recognizing same-sex marriage -Local clergy divided on legal, religious aspects of gay marriage -Gay marriage rites start today in Portland -GOP Plans Votes to Put Democrats on the Spot -Gay wedding foes rally at City Hall -New Paltz's mayor vowed to go ahead with up to two dozen same-sex weddings -No amendment... just a good debate. -Maine Senate refused constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage. -Upton says no need for Constitutional ban on gay marriage Tuesday, March 02, 2004 -From HRC- -"What if it was a gay world?" -Outside polls, a pitch for gay marriage -Mass. Election Tests Gay Marriage As Issue -Wedding Church and State -Gay GOP groups lobby against amendment -COLUMN: PAT CUNNINGHAM -'Activist Judges' Mainly GOP Appointees Study Shows -Magazine Contributor Wants To Be a Voice for Gay Community By Melissa Brandenburg, senior, Valley High School -Anti gay marriage effort advances -For Toronto Family, Gay Marriage Fortifies 'Normal' and more send comments, thoughts, poems, essays to: transdada http://transdada.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:00:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Morrison & Treadwell read in Oakland, 3/21 Comments: To: WOM-PO@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU, imitationpoetics@listserv.unc.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sunday, March 21, 2004, 7-9 PM Yedda Morrison & Elizabeth Treadwell reading in the New Brutalism Series 21 Grand, 449B 23rd Street, Oakland $4 cover for drinks & treats Yedda Morrison lives in Oakland. Her photographs have shown at New Langton Arts & Southern Exposure. Her first collection of poetry, Crop, was published in 2003 by Berkeley's Kelsey St. Press. She will be reading from her new manuscript, Girl Scout Nation. Elizabeth Treadwell will read from two new collections: Chantry, just out from Chax Press, and LILYFOIL + 3, coming soon from Oakland's O Books. Her previous books include a novel and a collection of prose poems. She lives in Oakland with her husband and baby daughter, and works at Small Press Traffic in San Francisco. _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:03:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Morrison & Treadwell read in Oakland, 3/21 Comments: To: WOM-PO@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU, imitationpoetics@listserv.unc.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sunday, March 21, 2004, 7-9 PM Yedda Morrison & Elizabeth Treadwell reading in the New Brutalism Series 21 Grand, 449B 23rd Street, Oakland $4 cover for drinks & treats Yedda Morrison lives in Oakland. Her photographs have shown at New Langton Arts & Southern Exposure. Her first collection of poetry, Crop, was published in 2003 by Berkeley's Kelsey St. Press. She will be reading from her new manuscript, Girl Scout Nation. Elizabeth Treadwell will read from two new collections: Chantry, just out from Chax Press, and LILYFOIL + 3, coming soon from Oakland's O Books. Her previous books include a novel and a collection of prose poems. She lives in Oakland with her husband and baby daughter, and works at Small Press Traffic in San Francisco. _________________________________________________________________ Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at Tech Hacks & Scams. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/techsafety.armx ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:18:08 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: aaron tieger Subject: CARVE reading in NYC March 4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If you're in or near NYC on Thursday, March 4, please come celebrate issue 2 (and others) of CARVE with poetry readings by Michael Carr Gregory Ford Brenda Iijima Mark Lamoureux Dorothea Lasky Jess Mynes Christina Strong Aaron Tieger Matvei Yankelevich With music by The Millerite Redeemers! Curated & with introduction by David Kirschenbaum. Free wine, cheese, food, etc. 6 pm. ACA Galleries 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. (Chelsea) NYC Directions: C/E to 23rd St., 1/9 to 18th St. Venue is bet. 10th and 11th avenues FREE AND OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. BRING FRIENDS, DATES, ETC. Looking forward to seeing you there! [Please forward widely] __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 12:25:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Shankar, Ravi (English)" Subject: Reading and Benefit for Catamaran in Amherst MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Celebrate the publication of Catamaran, the first journal exclusively = devoted to South Asian literature.=20 Featuring Shona Ramaya at Food for Thought bookstore:=20 Thursday, March 4th at 7:00 PM 106 N. Pleasant street, Amherst MA=20 Contact: Joan Barberich, 413-253-5432 *************** Ravi Shankar=20 Poet-in-Residence Assistant Professor CCSU - English Dept. 860-832-2766 shankarr@ccsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:11:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Marsh Subject: Re: Blog Arguments... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe, Can I post this on my blog? Thanks, bill > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Joe Amato > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 5:24 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Blog Arguments... > > jeepers, i post 7 kb on blog/anti-blog and only 1 tiny kb on "wonder > cabinets," and now i have to make good on the latter, which i dashed > off in haste w/o really thinking about it much... well i'll give it a > go, and remind readers of what anselm hollo posted here not long ago > about poetry being a "dangerous toy" (he was quoting someone else, > yes?): > > indeed, stephen, you've sent me back to weschler's ~mr. wilson's > cabinet of wonder: pronged ants, horned humans, mice on toast, and > other marvels of jurassic technology~ (i have the 96 vintage pb)... > both "wonder cabinets" and "cabinets of curiosity," yes... weschler's > book, you may know, concerns l.a.'s museum of jurassic technology > (curated by david wilson, who has since won a macarthur)... in fact > the point weschler is making has less to do with possession or > exoticizing than with the potential for invoking a different > understanding of knowledge and knowledge-making... for weschler, > wilson's museum undermines authority, authenticity and the like, in a > postmodern or premodern vein... > > now certainly the internet has at one level always constituted an > outside to established lines of authority---this is clearly its > imagined locus for some (like yours truly), but i would argue also > that its challenge to insider-isms *can be* very real... perhaps less > real in some sense than a decade ago, but when i think about > moveon.org, more real... > > and if blogs constitute a further challenge to those authorities that > tend to dominate the (discursive) real, very well then... there might > be a problem with this too, for that matter, but i'm all for > democratic participation as against "tell the rabble to be quite/we > anticipate a riot"... in any case, how does this challenge to > authority come about?... i suspect, but can only suspect, that we > underestimate the capacity of our rhetorics to elicit something like > wonder ("wonder" is an interesting word in this regard, as there are > versions of it in numerous languages, but its etymology is entirely > mysterious)... for me wonder points to what we can't quite explain... > and sometimes, once in a great while, "i can't explain" (i have the > rock lyric in my mind, yes) leads to a new kind of engagement with > the real... wonder (among other things) might be the basis for an > affirmative form of resistance... > > ergo my sense that blogs may become performative sites for the > articulation/dissemination of new, or certainly, other, kinds of > interiority... i almost believe, w/o thinking too awful hard about > it, that the heteronaut movement might find its proper home in > blogville... a very static read, i grant you, and i think, in > thinking about it more, that it's something of a stupid, if not > stubborn, stretch to conceive of one's interiority as being "put on > display" in order to elicit, what did i say? oh yeah---wonder... > > but then again, i'm feeling a bit put on display even *here*, and > that's never stopped me from waxing stubborn, if not stupid... have i > fetishized my, uhm, self?... i wonder (sorry)... thus far poetry > blogs do seem, in any case, to be about exposition, to judge by the > interiorities thereby exhibited (whether or not they include poetry > and the like)... i.e., most blogs i visit are explictly trying to > persuade me to think a certain way about such & so (about, say, > BLOGS), much as i'm trying to persuade in this post (oh, yeah, and > entertain a bit too, if you don't mind)... and that's one kind of > performance, perhaps indeed the kind with which i'm myself most > comfy, most drawn to, inasmuch as i seem to be drawn to dialogue > (ergo my desire to see more of same *here*)... > > i write poetry, i think, for other kinds of reasons (dialogue too > though)... the tyranny of dialogue notwithstanding, i'll take it any > day over mum's-the-word rhetorics, which i get plenty of, thank you > very much, as a bureaucrat-academic... > > anyway, if you go at it from the perspective of self-publishing, or > publishing selves, well i can't see as how that won't ultimately > peter out, as you suggest, b/c one has only so much time to write, > let alone eat, and the charm of that variant of self-publishing is > bound to wear off over time---i mean, on an hourly or daily or weekly > basis, depending what your blog sked is... doesn't mean folks > shouldn't (or won't continue to) blog... and i could be wrong here, > in any case---perhaps many of you have a greater stomach than i > reckon for putting your pixeled interiority(ies) on display (as > opposed, i mean, to directly attempting dialogue and exchange, as i'm > trying my goddamnedest to do at the moment, again), and less of an > appetite for... food?... persuasion?... self-possession?... then > again--- > > best, > > joe > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:14:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Marsh Subject: Re: Blog Arguments... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > i would ask, as presumptuous as it may be OF me to > ask, that those of you who imagine your work as bloggers, > discussants, what have you, work even harder to make your words > matter... in my blog, for one, I'm determined to make my words essence ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 13:21:49 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: poetry as self-glorification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I think poetry is self-glorification. I don't see how any community of poets could come out of it. It's like having a community of models, or a community of Democratic candidates for the presidency. They are competing against one another for a niche. In Darwinian terms, this should make them into enemies. While some small group of poets might band together and identify themselves with a small group of say, surrealists, or language poets, or whatever, and thus compete as a team against the vast mass of poetry, and even be supportive in this vein (NY school poets come to mind) -- an avant-garde is a flying wedge, a nation-state, competing for whatever small resources of self-glorification are available. A list of a thousand people such as this one cannot but break into competitive groups. It's possible to find friends in such a list, but it isn't the most likely outcome. It's more likely that you will find enemies. I think even poets such as Charles Olson are creating monuments to themselves. Maximus is mostly that. There are other great things in the epic poem, but it is mostly about Charles Olson: his tastes, his being citizen number one in Gloucester (fuck Ferrini is the topic of one of his longer screeds), and so on. Ginsberg's poems are about him and his friends and how important they are. I am probably naive, but I think poetry is mainly self-glorification. If it isn't that, I might be misreading it. -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 13:43:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Kaplan P. Harris" Subject: Fwd: call for work[s] on P. Inman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Forwarded message from Elver Angula ----- Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:51:55 -0800 (PST) From: Elver Angula Reply-To: clearasglass@taotaotano.com Subject: call for work[s] ***PLEASE REDISTRIBUTE AS APPROPRIATE *** CHILD.E of E.E.L. solicits poems, essays, and other expressions, as necessary, for a soon-to-be-published collective examination of the writing of the poet P.INMAN. Anecdote and speculation are encouraged, along with any other practices that reflect or refract the work of this seminal american poet. Materials are best received in the form of a direct reply to this message. While a reply with attached file of material is also acceptable, please note that current reality prohibits consideration of attachments greater than one [1] megabyte in size. Such file[s] cannot be delivered to CHILD.E of E.E.L., and should be considered to be rejected unread. Alternate means can be arranged of course; a query which outlines the specific nature of such a contribution will receive prompt reply &c. It is our hope that the projected content of this volume, including its correct and complete name, will be in readiness no later than Memorial Day 2004, and the work of publishing proper concluded by Labor Day. Payment in copies; documentation to all contributors. for CHILD.E of E.E.L., I remain, Elver Angula ***PLEASE REDISTRIBUTE AS APPROPRIATE *** _____________________________ "I think we may have everything backwards, literally everything!" -Fanny Howe ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 13:50:58 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: HAITIAN HISTORY LESSON w QUESTION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This poem appeared about twenty years ago in a journal called Rolling Stock, edited by Ed Dorn. HAITI In colorful dresses the Arawaks Were pushed off the edge of a cliff by the conquistadors In metal armor the conquistadors Were pushed off the edge of a cliff by the French colonialists In plumed shirts the French colonialists Were pushed off the edge of a cliff by mulatto revolutionnaires In neo-colonialist plumed shirts the mulatto revolutionnaires Were pushed off the edge of a cliff by American imperialists In business suits the American Imperialists Have the woods stripped And the cliffs of Haiti are washed into the sea Leaving on the surface only the black hat of Duvalier At any rate, the poem needs to be updated. I still don't see who is pushing who exactly. It looks like drug lords are pushing Aristide off the cliff. The only possibility of changing this is American troops, once more. But I think we are too tied up in Iraq at present to open a second front. So it seems clear that Haiti will be run by murderous thugs and gangsters -- leftovers from the Duvalier regime, and their ragtag army. What a fate to have been born on such an island. -- Kirby ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > I'll keep my nickel, thank you. I only have a few of them. > > The "revolutionaries" are familiar faces to any who have followed events in > Haiti in recent decades. One of them, for instance, was convicted for the > murder of the Attorney General of Haiti's only freely elected government. > > On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 16:34:42 +0000, Kirby Olson wrote: > > > Aldon -- got any guesses as to the question of who these "revolutionaries" > are? > > > > I would be willing to bet you a nickel that they are not Marxists. > > > > -- Kirby > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 13:56:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Majzels Subject: Announcement theatre in Toronto In-Reply-To: <20040303050618.KTPT16850.tomts38-srv.bellnexxia.net@acsu.buffalo.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable TEATRON Presents THIS NIGHT a Play in Two Acts by Robert Majzels Directed and designed by Ari Weisberg Starring David Rosser, Howard Jerome, and Jack Kennedy The Berkeley Street Theatre 26 Berkeley Street, Toronto March 3-20, 2004 For tickets call 416.368.3110 After ten years of failed struggle as a political and union activist, David Hellman has come home in defeat and humiliation. His older brother Benny, who stayed home and dedicated himself to building a successful business, is all that remains of the family. The two brothers rapidly conflict over thei= r opposing visions. When the spirit of their dead father is raised, the facts of his experience in the camps becomes the site of a struggle for meaning. Which brother has been true to their father's experience as a survivor of the Holocaust? Which has betrayed the legacy? From award-winning Canadian author and playwright Robert Majzels comes This Night, a play in which past and present conflate, history and imagination are blurred. As in the ancient texts of the Talmud, Majzels presents a dialogue of differing possibilities, a relentless search for the truth in the knowledge of the impossibility of ever entirely attaining that goal. On one level, this play explores the dilemma of the children of the Holocaust, saddled with a memory they can never entirely call their own. At the same time, Majzels tells us, we are all survivors of the Holocaust, struggling with the failure of Western civilization. Governor-General Award of Canada recipient Robert Majzels is an accomplishe= d novelist, playwright, and translator. He is the acclaimed author of two novels: Hellman's Scrapbook (Cormorant Press, ON, 1992) and City of Forgetting (Mercury Press, short-listed for the 1998 QSPELL Fiction Award i= n Montr=E9al). His third novel Apikoros Sleuth, is slated for release 2004 (Mecury Press and Potes & Poets). His full-length play This Night won first prize both in the 1991 Dorothy Silver Awards (Cleveland Ohio, USA) and the 1994 Canadian Jewish Playwrighting Competition. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:18:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Regime Dream In-Reply-To: <010a01c4014f$63f289a0$32c0fea9@nd.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Regime Dream one regime maintained the dream of another nested in its heart but with washed out color and flat lighting a loving farce at the historical crossroads and still the people suffered smiling while suffering in the confused dream at the crossed roads laughing while suffering slowly inside slowly inside the dream of the other regime ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:29:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: HAITIAN HISTORY LESSON w QUESTION Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ah, but the role of the US troops in this instance seems to be to clear the way for the takeover by the thugs -- (Keep in mind that Guy Phillipe was trained by the US in Ecuador prior to his earlier attempts to overthrow the government) -- The US govt.has said that the rebels have no role to play in the political solution in Haiti. The US President's press spokesman said that we had made possible a "peaceful, democratic and constitutional solution." Meanwhile, the constitutionally designated successor to the President is nowhere to be seen, the "rebels" have threatened to arrest the Prime Minister, and Philiipe has declared himself the head of the Haitian military, which, we may recall, no longer exists under the Haitian constitution. and several persons convicted for participating in massacres have been releasedfromprison by Phillipe and company -- and did anybody notice the attacks on paintings and sculptures yesterday????? On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 13:50:58 +0000, Kirby Olson wrote: It looks like drug lords are pushing Aristide off the cliff. > > The only possibility of changing this is American troops, once more. But I > think we are too tied up in Iraq at present to open a second front. So it seems > clear that Haiti will be run by murderous thugs and gangsters -- leftovers from > the Duvalier regime, and their ragtag army. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:30:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Blog Arguments... In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Joe, I am not trying at all to dismiss "wonder" from the interior potential of a number of possible blogs. I am often in a state of astonishment when I scroll down Chris Sullivan's blog. It is, at best, a cabinet of wonderous curiosity. And so this is true of several others whose various awes I won't indulge - whether they be for sheer intellectual "pointitude" or an intimate view of personal cosmetics that, well, kind of, perfume the screen. Yes, Fred Wilson takes on museum acquisition and practice in mostly fresh ways (tho sometimes repetition of strategy produces a predictability of outcome and consequently a boring redux no matter the contents of different museums). And definitely cracks the magnitude of the colonial skull. But my point was the function of the original collector - whether the original "cabinet" folks or not - is/was to proclaim a power and control (either by presence of objects or the omission of them). We see exhibited the skulls of the indigenous but not the whips that "embraced" them. A CIA or KGB blog would be comparable, i.e., no manuals on torture are in evidence. I suspect the impulse of many of us who blog is to strip the anonymous and articulate/disclose the materiality and value of what the dominant discourse ignores which, of course, as you point out is part of the dialog. "They" do watch, do surveil - we know the script, either severe reprisals, incorporations, co-optations, or just nice new public openings in the larger field! (i.e.., you pay your dues). And we instantly recognize the fake blogs - Dick Gephart on the road (yuck), canned, scripted stuff. Technologically I suspect one can say that the blog is a new mirror in the woods - and definitely a fresh moment. But privy to all the problems of mirrors - hopefully, when broken (crasshed) not seven years of bad luck! But such critiques can be aimed at other media - Black Mountain College's magazine carries the probe of the authentic (even when wrong headed) where one might read the American Poetry Review (no matter the occasion of some things good) with a sense of muddled editorial intention other than a sense of providing multiple career support. Stephen V on 3/3/04 5:24 AM, Joe Amato at jamato2@ILSTU.EDU wrote: > jeepers, i post 7 kb on blog/anti-blog and only 1 tiny kb on "wonder > cabinets," and now i have to make good on the latter, which i dashed > off in haste w/o really thinking about it much... well i'll give it a > go, and remind readers of what anselm hollo posted here not long ago > about poetry being a "dangerous toy" (he was quoting someone else, > yes?): > > indeed, stephen, you've sent me back to weschler's ~mr. wilson's > cabinet of wonder: pronged ants, horned humans, mice on toast, and > other marvels of jurassic technology~ (i have the 96 vintage pb)... > both "wonder cabinets" and "cabinets of curiosity," yes... weschler's > book, you may know, concerns l.a.'s museum of jurassic technology > (curated by david wilson, who has since won a macarthur)... in fact > the point weschler is making has less to do with possession or > exoticizing than with the potential for invoking a different > understanding of knowledge and knowledge-making... for weschler, > wilson's museum undermines authority, authenticity and the like, in a > postmodern or premodern vein... > > now certainly the internet has at one level always constituted an > outside to established lines of authority---this is clearly its > imagined locus for some (like yours truly), but i would argue also > that its challenge to insider-isms *can be* very real... perhaps less > real in some sense than a decade ago, but when i think about > moveon.org, more real... > > and if blogs constitute a further challenge to those authorities that > tend to dominate the (discursive) real, very well then... there might > be a problem with this too, for that matter, but i'm all for > democratic participation as against "tell the rabble to be quite/we > anticipate a riot"... in any case, how does this challenge to > authority come about?... i suspect, but can only suspect, that we > underestimate the capacity of our rhetorics to elicit something like > wonder ("wonder" is an interesting word in this regard, as there are > versions of it in numerous languages, but its etymology is entirely > mysterious)... for me wonder points to what we can't quite explain... > and sometimes, once in a great while, "i can't explain" (i have the > rock lyric in my mind, yes) leads to a new kind of engagement with > the real... wonder (among other things) might be the basis for an > affirmative form of resistance... > > ergo my sense that blogs may become performative sites for the > articulation/dissemination of new, or certainly, other, kinds of > interiority... i almost believe, w/o thinking too awful hard about > it, that the heteronaut movement might find its proper home in > blogville... a very static read, i grant you, and i think, in > thinking about it more, that it's something of a stupid, if not > stubborn, stretch to conceive of one's interiority as being "put on > display" in order to elicit, what did i say? oh yeah---wonder... > > but then again, i'm feeling a bit put on display even *here*, and > that's never stopped me from waxing stubborn, if not stupid... have i > fetishized my, uhm, self?... i wonder (sorry)... thus far poetry > blogs do seem, in any case, to be about exposition, to judge by the > interiorities thereby exhibited (whether or not they include poetry > and the like)... i.e., most blogs i visit are explictly trying to > persuade me to think a certain way about such & so (about, say, > BLOGS), much as i'm trying to persuade in this post (oh, yeah, and > entertain a bit too, if you don't mind)... and that's one kind of > performance, perhaps indeed the kind with which i'm myself most > comfy, most drawn to, inasmuch as i seem to be drawn to dialogue > (ergo my desire to see more of same *here*)... > > i write poetry, i think, for other kinds of reasons (dialogue too > though)... the tyranny of dialogue notwithstanding, i'll take it any > day over mum's-the-word rhetorics, which i get plenty of, thank you > very much, as a bureaucrat-academic... > > anyway, if you go at it from the perspective of self-publishing, or > publishing selves, well i can't see as how that won't ultimately > peter out, as you suggest, b/c one has only so much time to write, > let alone eat, and the charm of that variant of self-publishing is > bound to wear off over time---i mean, on an hourly or daily or weekly > basis, depending what your blog sked is... doesn't mean folks > shouldn't (or won't continue to) blog... and i could be wrong here, > in any case---perhaps many of you have a greater stomach than i > reckon for putting your pixeled interiority(ies) on display (as > opposed, i mean, to directly attempting dialogue and exchange, as i'm > trying my goddamnedest to do at the moment, again), and less of an > appetite for... food?... persuasion?... self-possession?... then > again--- > > best, > > joe ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 12:33:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jason christie Subject: Re: HAITIAN HISTORY LESSON w QUESTION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Haiti doesn't seem as politically necessary as Iraq or the middle east. Thus, we won't see a large American presence there until it becomes politically necessary, i.e. until there is enough media coverage for the American people to become 'outraged' and a mission into Haiti can be spun as 'liberation' or 'inifinite justice'. What a fate to be born an Island... Kirby Olson wrote: The only possibility of changing this [situation in Haiti] is American troops, once more. But I think we are too tied up in Iraq at present to open a second front. So it seems clear that Haiti will be run by murderous thugs and gangsters -- leftovers from the Duvalier regime, and their ragtag army. What a fate to have been born on such an island. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:34:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: Regime Dream MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Each generation dreams into nested being the regime it deserves. Thus our brutal wonder-- that indeterminacy is re-enacted. Best, Jerry Schwartz > Regime Dream > > one regime maintained > the dream of another > nested in its heart > but with washed out > color and flat lighting > a loving farce at the > historical > crossroads > and still the people > suffered smiling > while suffering in > the confused dream > at the crossed roads > laughing while > suffering slowly > inside slowly > inside the dream > of the other > regime ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:39:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Thomas Subject: Re: poetry as self-glorification Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu In-Reply-To: <4046223D.960DAF5E@delhi.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Kirby Olson wrote: I am probably naive, but I think poetry is mainly self-glorification. If it isn't that, I might be misreading it. ___ And perhaps I'm naive, but while I think poetry can be self-glorifying, it can also be about creating something interesting with language or with traditions of discourse (not all poetry is made of language). I recall John Cage's remark about finding "a way of writing that, though coming from ideas, is not about them but produces them." I like this productive conception of writing. Not using art to produce monuments, but to produce thought, to produce ideas. Best, Joseph __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 13:57:53 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Bechtel Subject: Re: poetry as self-glorification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mmm. I think it's self-glorification, or can serve selfish means - maybe a poet thinks of establishing a monument, or a legacy, but these are things that drive people in all kinds of professions. A poet can still enjoy the work of other poets, and learn from other writers - even if they have selfish motives - I don't think anyone is free from selfishness. Whether they realize it or not, writers in a time period are working together (though they may not realize it) at creating the canon of that generation - enriching the body of literature - so if we view that as the goal, rather than something purely individual, but also for everyone, and as a memoir and testament to our time, then it can be different. Although, I'm sure there are people building their own Great Pyramids in preparation for their death. If that were the case, I think I'd rather be like King Tut, and bury mine a bit - people wouldn't grave rob me, but maybe they'd appreciate me all the more in a few thousand years. Then, some people build such weak monuments, like bad modern architecture, or those terrible office buildings from the 50s and 60s with no sense of art at all. I'd rather leave something behind other than crumbling, rust-streaked concrete and rebar. -Brent ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirby Olson" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 12:21 PM Subject: Re: poetry as self-glorification > I think poetry is self-glorification. I don't see how any community of poets > could come out of it. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:29:53 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: Blog Arguments... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" stephen, thanks for that... i suppose i must add only that i regret, for my part, the passing of the Age of Lists (and i write this knowing that lists may be here to stay)... it was nice while it lasted, and being nowhere on anyone's poetry radar, lists gave me a place to go and be noticed (self-glorification, maybe, but surely a sense too that i was part of something greater than myself, which i evidently desired)... still, all good things must come to end... a list like this one may continue to function in such terms, no question, but much more modestly, and not simply b/c of the sheer numbers subbed, but b/c the terms of engagement (which are a function of the aims of such a list, and also its history, the social mood, online traffic in general, etc.) seem, to me anyway, much more diffuse... it's difficult to be as evangelical about the medium today as i might have been a dozen years ago, albeit even then i understood, i think, that the technofix was just that---a fix, in all senses of the word... perhaps all we really want or need anyway is a makeshift forum that permits communicative expediency and the like to bump up against more expressivist interventions... but why?... as a heuristic?... to build community?... to spread the word?... to feel at home?... to be successful?... to be happy?... to fiddlefuck?... to test the ties that bind?... so blogs are something of a fix for now, taking (some of) us from point A to point B... again, i may start one myself, i may not (he loves me, she loves me not)... i'm not sure this is what you call progress (& what did dorn write?---"progress: slow but inexorable"), but it's certainly succession... here's hoping we don't end up, figuratively speaking, back at point A... best, joe nb someone check me on the dorn, please! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 13:08:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: Blog Arguments... Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Listserv's more like college radio and blogs more like cd download swapping? one's a little newer than the other, but some of us-- especially with not much "spending power"-- still listen to college radio (even though the djs don't tell you the names of the songs until like an hour afterward).... just like some of us prefer to see live music than the hip dj (so hip there's no dj booths in men's sections of clothes stores) or be live music all analogies are false or poor internet--- they seem to think you're an end in itself (medium message etc.... it probably all has something to do with my new demon word ELECTIBILITY (more on this later, but THE ELECTIBILITY FACTOR seems to have greater significance than just this Kerry guy--- (Michael Palmieri?) ---------- >From: Stephen Vincent >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Blog Arguments... >Date: Wed, Mar 3, 2004, 11:30 AM > > Joe, I am not trying at all to dismiss "wonder" from the interior potential > of a number of possible blogs. I am often in a state of astonishment when I > scroll down Chris Sullivan's blog. It is, at best, a cabinet of wonderous > curiosity. And so this is true of several others whose various awes I won't > indulge - whether they be for sheer intellectual "pointitude" or an intimate > view of personal cosmetics that, well, kind of, perfume the screen. > > Yes, Fred Wilson takes on museum acquisition and practice in mostly fresh > ways (tho sometimes repetition of strategy produces a predictability of > outcome and consequently a boring redux no matter the contents of different > museums). And definitely cracks the magnitude of the colonial skull. > > But my point was the function of the original collector - whether the > original "cabinet" folks or not - is/was to proclaim a power and control > (either by presence of objects or the omission of them). We see exhibited > the skulls of the indigenous but not the whips that "embraced" them. A CIA > or KGB blog would be comparable, i.e., no manuals on torture are in > evidence. > > I suspect the impulse of many of us who blog is to strip the anonymous and > articulate/disclose the materiality and value of what the dominant discourse > ignores which, of course, as you point out is part of the dialog. "They" do > watch, do surveil - we know the script, either severe reprisals, > incorporations, co-optations, or just nice new public openings in the larger > field! (i.e.., you pay your dues). And we instantly recognize the fake > blogs - Dick Gephart on the road (yuck), canned, scripted stuff. > Technologically I suspect one can say that the blog is a new mirror in the > woods - and definitely a fresh moment. But privy to all the problems of > mirrors - hopefully, when broken (crasshed) not seven years of bad luck! > > But such critiques can be aimed at other media - Black Mountain College's > magazine carries the probe of the authentic (even when wrong headed) where > one might read the American Poetry Review (no matter the occasion of some > things good) with a sense of muddled editorial intention other than a sense > of providing multiple career support. > > Stephen V > > > > > > > > > > on 3/3/04 5:24 AM, Joe Amato at jamato2@ILSTU.EDU wrote: > >> jeepers, i post 7 kb on blog/anti-blog and only 1 tiny kb on "wonder >> cabinets," and now i have to make good on the latter, which i dashed >> off in haste w/o really thinking about it much... well i'll give it a >> go, and remind readers of what anselm hollo posted here not long ago >> about poetry being a "dangerous toy" (he was quoting someone else, >> yes?): >> >> indeed, stephen, you've sent me back to weschler's ~mr. wilson's >> cabinet of wonder: pronged ants, horned humans, mice on toast, and >> other marvels of jurassic technology~ (i have the 96 vintage pb)... >> both "wonder cabinets" and "cabinets of curiosity," yes... weschler's >> book, you may know, concerns l.a.'s museum of jurassic technology >> (curated by david wilson, who has since won a macarthur)... in fact >> the point weschler is making has less to do with possession or >> exoticizing than with the potential for invoking a different >> understanding of knowledge and knowledge-making... for weschler, >> wilson's museum undermines authority, authenticity and the like, in a >> postmodern or premodern vein... >> >> now certainly the internet has at one level always constituted an >> outside to established lines of authority---this is clearly its >> imagined locus for some (like yours truly), but i would argue also >> that its challenge to insider-isms *can be* very real... perhaps less >> real in some sense than a decade ago, but when i think about >> moveon.org, more real... >> >> and if blogs constitute a further challenge to those authorities that >> tend to dominate the (discursive) real, very well then... there might >> be a problem with this too, for that matter, but i'm all for >> democratic participation as against "tell the rabble to be quite/we >> anticipate a riot"... in any case, how does this challenge to >> authority come about?... i suspect, but can only suspect, that we >> underestimate the capacity of our rhetorics to elicit something like >> wonder ("wonder" is an interesting word in this regard, as there are >> versions of it in numerous languages, but its etymology is entirely >> mysterious)... for me wonder points to what we can't quite explain... >> and sometimes, once in a great while, "i can't explain" (i have the >> rock lyric in my mind, yes) leads to a new kind of engagement with >> the real... wonder (among other things) might be the basis for an >> affirmative form of resistance... >> >> ergo my sense that blogs may become performative sites for the >> articulation/dissemination of new, or certainly, other, kinds of >> interiority... i almost believe, w/o thinking too awful hard about >> it, that the heteronaut movement might find its proper home in >> blogville... a very static read, i grant you, and i think, in >> thinking about it more, that it's something of a stupid, if not >> stubborn, stretch to conceive of one's interiority as being "put on >> display" in order to elicit, what did i say? oh yeah---wonder... >> >> but then again, i'm feeling a bit put on display even *here*, and >> that's never stopped me from waxing stubborn, if not stupid... have i >> fetishized my, uhm, self?... i wonder (sorry)... thus far poetry >> blogs do seem, in any case, to be about exposition, to judge by the >> interiorities thereby exhibited (whether or not they include poetry >> and the like)... i.e., most blogs i visit are explictly trying to >> persuade me to think a certain way about such & so (about, say, >> BLOGS), much as i'm trying to persuade in this post (oh, yeah, and >> entertain a bit too, if you don't mind)... and that's one kind of >> performance, perhaps indeed the kind with which i'm myself most >> comfy, most drawn to, inasmuch as i seem to be drawn to dialogue >> (ergo my desire to see more of same *here*)... >> >> i write poetry, i think, for other kinds of reasons (dialogue too >> though)... the tyranny of dialogue notwithstanding, i'll take it any >> day over mum's-the-word rhetorics, which i get plenty of, thank you >> very much, as a bureaucrat-academic... >> >> anyway, if you go at it from the perspective of self-publishing, or >> publishing selves, well i can't see as how that won't ultimately >> peter out, as you suggest, b/c one has only so much time to write, >> let alone eat, and the charm of that variant of self-publishing is >> bound to wear off over time---i mean, on an hourly or daily or weekly >> basis, depending what your blog sked is... doesn't mean folks >> shouldn't (or won't continue to) blog... and i could be wrong here, >> in any case---perhaps many of you have a greater stomach than i >> reckon for putting your pixeled interiority(ies) on display (as >> opposed, i mean, to directly attempting dialogue and exchange, as i'm >> trying my goddamnedest to do at the moment, again), and less of an >> appetite for... food?... persuasion?... self-possession?... then >> again--- >> >> best, >> >> joe ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:12:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: WWF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I'm only forwarding one of these to Poetics - I belong to the WWF and participate in the Conservation Action Network - which is needed now more than ever. Some of you might want to participate - there's information below. - Alan ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:51:22 -0500 (EST) From: WWF Conservation Action Network To: sondheim@panix.com Subject: Influence Key Vote on Florida Keys SEND ACTION~a15732u30516 Action deadline: March 8, 2004 Dear Alan, The Florida Keys are an American treasure: an irreplaceable archipelago with coral reefs, seagrass meadows, mangrove islands, and pockets of tropical forest. The Keys are also under tremendous stress and face a serious new threat. Next Tuesday, Florida's governor and cabinet will vote on a proposal for the Keys that would increase allowable development by nearly 25 percent, eliminate a requirement to remove antiquated septic systems, and fail to protect terrestrial habitats. These officials need to hear that citizens from Florida and across the United States care about the Keys and want them protected. The Keys are home to the world's third-largest coral reef and their waters support more than 6,000 species of marine life, including endangered hawksbill and Kemp's ridley sea turtles and West Indian manatees. The islands' forests shelter endangered species such as the tiny Key deer, found nowhere else on Earth. In all, 30 federally-listed threatened or endangered species are found in the Keys. Unfortunately, poorly managed development has devastated the Keys environment: Forests have been bulldozed, the ocean is contaminated with sewage pollution, and the reef has lost more than 30 percent of its living coral. Recently, important progress has been made to combat these problems, but it will be undermined if the governor and cabinet endorse the damaging proposal now before them. FOLLOW THE STEPS BELOW TO SEND FREE LETTERS URGING FLORIDA'S GOVERNOR AND CABINET TO PROTECT THE FLORIDA KEYS. To have the greatest impact, follow the instructions to send a personalized letter and also call these officials. Please explain why the Keys environment is important to you. Jeb Bush Governor (850) 488-4441 Charlie Crist Florida Attorney General (850) 414-3300 Tom Gallagher Florida Chief Financial Officer (850) 413-3100 Charles H. Bronson Florida Commissioner of Agriculture and Consumer Services (850) 488-3022 Please forward this alert to your friends and colleagues. **************************TAKE ACTION NOW!********************* POWERFUL OPTION: Personalize your letter. Go to http://takeaction.worldwildlife.org/ctt.asp?u=30516&l=20256 and follow the instructions for adding your own thoughts to your message. Decision makers pay much more attention to personalized messages. QUICK OPTION: If you only have a minute, send the message below, as is, by simply replying to this email. (This option works only if you received this email directly from the Conservation Action Network.) If you have any questions or problems with taking action, contact us at actionquestions@takeaction.worldwildlife.org for help. ***************************LETTER TEXT************************** Governor Jeb Bush Executive Office of the Governor 400 S. Monroe Street The Capitol Tallahassee, Florida 32399-0001 Attorney General Charlie Crist The Capitol PL-01 Tallahassee, Florida 32399-1050 Tom Gallagher Chief Financial Officer Florida Department of Financial Services 200 East Gaines Street Tallahassee, Florida 32399-0300 Charles H. Bronson Commissioner Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services The Capitol Tallahassee, Florida 32399-0800 Dear Sirs: Because of my deep concern for the Florida Keys -- one of our nation's best-loved and most spectacular ecosystems -- I urge you to ensure that the Department of Community Affairs proposal for Monroe County will not increase development, relax pollution controls, or fail to protect terrestrial habitats. The Keys sustain the world's third-largest coral reef (comprising nearly 90 percent of Florida's reefs), more than 6,000 species of marine life, endangered animals like the Key deer (found nowhere else on Earth), world-class recreational and commercial fisheries, more than 3 million visitors every year, and an economy that employs thousands and generates more than $1 billion annually. The $6 million Florida Keys Carrying Capacity Study showed that development has significantly eroded the ability of the Florida Keys environment to support its inhabitants, both human and wild. Hammock and pineland forests have been bulldozed, nearshore waters are contaminated with viruses and excess nutrients from sewage (threatening both human and environmental health), beach closings are increasingly common, and the reef has already lost more than 30 percent of its living coral. Not surprisingly, "National Geographic Traveler" magazine just ranked Key West third from the bottom in a survey of 115 international travel destinations, with a score low enough to qualify for the "Getting Ugly" category. In considering the proposal before you, I urge you to require that: * No increase in development will be allowed, except for affordable housing projects. * Wastewater treatment systems must be operational in the upper, middle, and lower Keys before the nutrient-reduction credit requirement is eliminated. * The temporary development moratorium will include all lands in Conservation and Natural Areas and all native habitat of one acre or greater Keys-wide, and will remain in place until regulations are implemented to permanently protect these areas. I applaud the state's progress in addressing many of the Florida Keys's most significant problems, and I urge you to do all that you can to conserve the Keys's irreplaceable natural resources for current and future generations. Sincerely, Your name and address will be inserted here **************************END OF LETTER TEXT************************* _____________________________________________________________________ You received this message because sondheim@panix.com is an activist with the World Wildlife Fund Conservation Action Network. _____________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, send an email to alerts@takeaction.worldwildlife.org from sondheim@panix.com with the word REMOVE in the subject line or you can unsubscribe at http://takeaction.worldwildlife.org/unsubscribe/. _____________________________________________________________________ Direct any questions about the WWF Conservation Action Network to actionquestions@takeaction.worldwildlife.org _____________________________________________________________________ The Conservation Action Network is sponsored by World Wildlife Fund-US. Known worldwide by its panda logo, WWF is dedicated to protecting the world's wildlife and the rich biological diversity that we all need to survive. The leading privately supported international conservation organization in the world, WWF has sponsored more than 2,000 projects in 116 countries and has more than 1 million members in the United States. WWF calls on everyone -- government, industry, and individuals -- to take responsibility by taking action to save our living planet. World Wildlife Fund 1250 Twenty-fourth Street, NW Washington, DC 20037 http://www.worldwildlife.org http://takeaction.worldwildlife.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 13:50:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: just seemed a bit ironic given Alan's last posting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Press Release Call to Artists The Village of Key Biscayne Civic Center Public Art Submission Deadline: May 21, 2004 Address: Village of Key Biscayne Art in Public Places Board Office of the Village Clerk 88 West McIntyre Street Key Biscayne, FL 33149 Web Site: www.keybiscayne.fl.gov Call to Artists The Village of Key Biscayne Civic Center Public Art The Village of Key Biscayne Art in Public Places Board is seeking artists to develop artwork for the Village Civic Center. Artwork Opportunities Two sites are being considered for artwork for the Village of Key Biscayne: the oval-shaped plaza at the entrance to the Civic Center campus and the circular plaza and transition space adjacent to the Village Green. Both sites anchor the new Community Center along the major circulation and pedestrian axis of the Civic Center grounds. Submissions may be prepared for one or both sites, depending upon the artist preference. The Civic Center includes the Village Hall/Police, Fire Rescue Station, Community Center, a park, and new roads and infrastructure. Artists are being sought to develop these plazas as special places that integrate interesting surfaces, volumes and landscaping. The Art in Public Places Board is seeking artists with experience in outdoor, urban site-specific projects. Artists who work with functional sculptures in materials such as ceramic, wood, metal, water and others should apply. Artists should be sensitive to the history of the Village, its environment and to the expected uses and landscaping of the plazas. Selected artists will be invited to develop detailed proposals. This is a fast-track project with a total budget of $120,000.00 for the two sites. Submission Deadline Requested materials must be received in a sealed envelope by 4:00 p.m., May 21, 2004, at the address below: Village of Key Biscayne Art in Public Places Board Office of the Village Clerk 88 West McIntyre Street Key Biscayne, FL 33149 Selection Panel The Art in Public Places Board will review materials, rank applicants and make recommendations to the Village Council. The Board and/or the Village Council reserve the right to accept or reject any or all of the artists' proposals. The Council will make final determination on all art projects to be developed and built. Additional Information Artists should only submit requested materials in specified format. No original art should be submitted. Artists should not contact Board members or Village staff about this project. All official information is posted at this site: www.keybiscayne.fl.gov ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:34:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Tills Subject: Re: Blog Arguments... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I see Blogs as being very different=20 experiences/vehicles/venues for a=20 variety of different folks. I think one=20 misperception would be to fix the Blog=20 as one kind of writing engagement. Some bloggers employ "Squawkbox and=20 other Comment" technologies for their=20 Blog spaces; others do not. Some have=20 "Counters and Hits technologies," and=20 others do not. Some bloggers stay=20 alerted to dozens, if not hundreds, of=20 fellow bloggers' daily postings, and others=20 only occasionally pay attention to or randomly=20 scan others' blog spaces; some bloggers=20 don't even blog publically at all. Some=20 bloggers are absolutely thrilled that the=20 free technologies have enabled them to=20 create pretty darn powerful little web sites=20 and ezines they could not have designed=20 themselves without considerable study of=20 web design as well as investment in software=20 and web hosting. Others are absolutely=20 thrilled that they have a space out on the=20 internet, in cyber space, where they can=20 keep their rightfully proud and meaningful=20 externalization of "Self/Selves," including=20 everything from poetry to biography safe and=20 sound and accessible for contemporary=20 and future readers. Others are thrilled that=20 Blogs enable them something else altogether,=20 a "virtually anonymous" political space from=20 which they can chip away at the existing=20 social (dis)order, where that is deemed to=20 exist (a determination that is itself individual=20 and not necessarily or possibly universal),=20 or work to build alternative(s); here, the Blog=20 enables agency, if that's the correct word,=20 very much independent of and unrestricted by=20 governments and other regulators; there's no=20 way for Michael Powell or John Ashcroft to=20 keep up with all of us -- ummm, in fact, some=20 of "us" may be 100s of "us," and "the regulators=20 will never move as fast as we can in changing=20 technology to confound and circumvent their=20 endlessly pathetic efforts to effect tyrannies." The Buf Listserv is, on the other hand, a very=20 different venue, and even then it is different=20 things to different subscribers and readers. =20 (No, that's not a terribly new thought or statement.) Blogging... I myself love the community building,=20 the thot-sharing, and the de/re/a-centralization it enables=20 and encourages. I also encourage political=20 activists to use the internet and internet venues=20 and technologies in infinitely crea and subv. For one, I believe almost every commercial, governmental, and=20 corporate web site and portal out there can be "made better" with "mirror sites" internet surfers will confuse for "the real thing(s)," when in fact, poets and activists' "mirror sites and portals" may well present entirely new=20 and improved ideologies. Blah blah. :) =20 Steve=20 Steve Tills Microcomputer/Software Specialist MIS Dept.- G.W. Lisk Company, Inc. 315-462-4309 Stills@gwlisk.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:52:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: CIRCUMFERENCE responds to editing ban MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Circumference Editors . Thanks so much for your support and for any suggestions you might have. With best wishes, Stefania Heim & Jennifer Kronovet Editors -- CIRCUMFERENCE P.O. Box 27 New York, NY 10159-0027 http://www.circumferencemag.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:51:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Thomas Subject: Singing Horse In-Reply-To: <8601C518E4705B479C5747CD6962FFEC086718@gwexchange.gwlisk.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I've been planning to use Harryette Mullen's S*Perm**K*T in my contemporary poetry course this semester. However, I could not get copies because the person who ran Singing Horse Press, S*Perm**K*T's publisher, was in the hospital. I've just received news that he's passed away. Terrible news. Does anyone know his name? Best, Joseph __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:48:04 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Singing Horse In-Reply-To: <20040304005149.94791.qmail@web20413.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gill Ott, there was lots of discussion about him a week or so back, when he passed. At 4:51 PM -0800 3/3/04, Joseph Thomas wrote: >I've been planning to use Harryette Mullen's >S*Perm**K*T in my contemporary poetry course this >semester. However, I could not get copies because the >person who ran Singing Horse Press, S*Perm**K*T's >publisher, was in the hospital. I've just received >news that he's passed away. Terrible news. > >Does anyone know his name? > >Best, >Joseph > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Search - Find what you=EDre looking for faster >http://search.yahoo.com -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:51:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Re: Regime Dream In-Reply-To: <002001c40156$9264a0a0$9480ac44@rochester.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Thanks for that, Jerry. Especially "brutal wonder." s On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, Gerald Schwartz wrote: > Each generation > dreams > into nested being > the regime it > deserves. Thus > our brutal wonder-- > that indeterminacy > is re-enacted. > > Best, > Jerry Schwartz > > > > Regime Dream > > > > one regime maintained > > the dream of another > > nested in its heart > > but with washed out > > color and flat lighting > > a loving farce at the > > historical > > crossroads > > and still the people > > suffered smiling > > while suffering in > > the confused dream > > at the crossed roads > > laughing while > > suffering slowly > > inside slowly > > inside the dream > > of the other > > regime > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:03:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Caroline Crumpacker Subject: Jen Hofer and Myriam Moscona on March 6 In-Reply-To: <200403022126.1aYoTK5wO3NZFkD0@kite> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Saturday March 6th at 6:00 Jen Hofer and Myriam Moscona read from their work in Aufgabe and beyond. Copies of the magazine will=20= be sold at the BPC. Location: the magical, mystical Bowery Poetry Club located at 308 Bowery (btwn. Bleecker & Houston) www.bowerypoetry.com or 212-614-0505 Admission is $6/full bar and snacks available Bios: Myriam Moscona was born in Mexico city in 1955. She has published six=20 books of poetry, including Negro Marfil (Universidad Aut=F3noma=20 Metropolitana and oak editorial, 2000), V=EDsperas, (Fondo de Cultura=20 Econ=F3mica, 1996), and El =E1rbol de los nombres (Cuarto Menguante,=20 Gobierno del Estado de Jalisco, 1992). She has translated, among=20 others, Kenneth Rexroth and William Carlos Williams, and she worked for=20= many years as anchorwoman of a widely-acclaimed cultural affairs=20 program on Channel 22, a Mexico-City based public television station.=20 Translations of her poems into English can be found inMouth to Mouth:=20 Poems by Twelve Contemporary Mexican Women(ed. Forrest Gander, Milkweed=20= Editions, 1993) and in issue #3 of Aufgabe. =A0 Jen Hofer edited and translated Sin puertas visibles: An Anthology of=20 Contemporary Poetry by Mexican Women (University of Pittsburgh Press=20 and Ediciones Sin Nombre, 2003). Her recent books of poetry include the=20= chapbook lawless (Seeing Eye Books, 2003), slide rule (subpress, 2002),=20= and The 3:15 Experiment (with Lee Ann Brown, Danika Dinsmore, and=20 Bernadette Mayer, The Owl Press, 2001). She is co-editor, with Rod=20 Smith, of Aerial #10, a forthcoming critical volume on the work of the=20= poet Lyn Hejinian. Her writings against the war in Iraq and the war on=20= terror can be found in the special anti-war issue of A.BACUS, and in=20 the anthology Enough (O Books, 2003); other poems, prose texts and=20 translations appear in recent issues of 26, Aufgabe, Conundrum,=20 kenning, kiosk, NO: A Magazine of the Arts, and in the book Surface=20 Tension: The Problematics of Site (Errant Bodies Press, 2003). She=20 lives in Los Angeles, where she teaches and translates. ************* And news of the future: The April 18 reading with Ms. Kristin Prevallet and Mr. Ammiel Alcalay=20= has been postponed until next season May 16 Chris Daniels and Lisa Lubasch June remains an intoxicating mystery... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:38:32 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ela kotkowska Subject: Re: Blog Arguments... In-Reply-To: <1df.1a62aa11.2d77504c@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i find the squawk boxes quite charming (although i never checked to see whether there was something in mine until prompted by your missive) there is in them something clownish, squeaky, like some whoopie cushion or an untied balloon or a comb whistling it also makes me think of chicken, and i imagine a blog-coop populated with perches and perches of them (i don't like mine because i cannot temper the template) squawk boxes stack up like russian nesting dolls: comment on comment on comment. je t'entends pas, comment? squatting by a squaw-berry, scooping squaw-root, angling squaw-fish - squawk boxes are quite square & only sometimes answer our querries square the possibilities of enchantment, extending vertically from the ruminant horizon i know very little and not where moos or muds live, have no patience for chat-rooms or instant messengers, place postage on few listservs, have a blog but not the way one has a dog or a laptop, scribble in a journal and sometimes even spill coffee, write notes on napkins that i often lose, carry a piece of chalk in my pocket or just in case, invent new letters on dusty windows, still exchange letters with select friends and cut my own envelopes (i'll send you an H if you send me a C), and think, thinking isn't the same it was in the times of plato, and a poet writing from the bottom towards the top of the page wouldn't be the same if he wrote in reverse squawk also makes me think of a certain way of looking, somewhere between squinting and gawking under the squawk box lid there lies a swarm of neologisms spelled by neologians ooking flemmed manfoon hrunt abselish there is, too, something quite secret, how frightful, squawk boxes unbound disengaged from blogs that spawned them! one thing is certain: squawk boxes don't smell well-oiled like cogged wheels "squawk me tonight," he said. "qui so quacked met on gash!," she replied. squawk boxes can be bristly or plush not much more than a haiku fits into a squawk squad hence, it seems, we like the shapes into which we fit our thoughts perhaps, or without a doubt, there is a scribe who never did write until he found the right squawk box {{says who, in defense of a squawk box, who never filled one!}} {{ergo, }} {{paradoxically, }} {{ela. }} -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Murat Nemet-Nejat Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:14 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Blog Arguments... When blogs first appeared (at least when I first became aware of their existence through an argument Gary Sullivan was involved in), I was fascinated by them. Here were writers putting out their daily thoughts, and I could respond to any aspect of them which chose. There were also fewer blogs. One could still explore, pick and choose, etc. I particularly liked those which had a certain, or defining obsessions: a few examples, Gary's interest in any subject beyond the perimeters of American culture, Jordan Davies's half to himself observations and ruminations, Nada's assertions of a decorative poetry, Casey's absolutely brilliant -but I think somewhat dogmatic- poetic ruminations, Yepes's entries, like mine, looking at American poetics from outside. To me, the demise -a mutation- of blogs started with the squawk box. Up to that point, though it was a personal form, reading a blog I could always assume that I could e-mail the writer when something drew me in to their observations and he or she can respond or open it up to the blog if he or she wanted to. Or I could simply enjoy the blog. With the squawk blog that poetential has been relegated to the basement. It created an upstairs and downstairs in the structure of the blog. I, as a reader, could not feel that I was reading or responding to a fellow writer. Since the squawk box was there, the blog writer himself or herself also got released of the pressure of a direct (though virtual) address. -"You cn leave the message with the maid." It is this double structure of blogs, the "squawk" reminds me of "squaw," basically a put down slang- which changed its intimate nature for me, made it less interesting. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:43:50 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ela kotkowska Subject: Re: Regime Dream In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Each epoch dreams the one to follow" - Michelet, "Avenir! Avenir!", quoted by Walter Benjamin in 'Paris the Capital of the Nineteenth C. (1935). -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Steven Shoemaker Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 1:18 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Regime Dream Regime Dream one regime maintained the dream of another nested in its heart but with washed out color and flat lighting a loving farce at the historical crossroads and still the people suffered smiling while suffering in the confused dream at the crossed roads laughing while suffering slowly inside slowly inside the dream of the other regime ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:59:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Rumble Subject: 501(c)3 Advice??? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello everyone, I'm interesting in creating a non-profit organization to operate the Desert City Reading Series I've been running for a little while now. I was wondering what advice, wisdom, anecdotes those of you that have been through the experience might offer me? Front channel -- back channel -- psychic channel -- thanks in advance. Ken ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:04:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: UbuWeb Subject: U B U W E B :: Spring 2004 Comments: cc: ubuweb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii __ U B U W E B __ http://ubu.com RECENT ADDITIONS :: SPRING 2004 --- SOUND --- Art By Telephone, Museum of Contemporary Art, Chicago, 1969 (MP3) Joseph Beuys + Henning Christiansen - In Memoriam George Maciunas (MP3) Joseph Beuys + Henning Christiansen - Scottische Symphonie. Requiem of Art (MP3) Henning Christiansen - Requiem of Art (aus Celtic) (Fluxorum Organum II) (MP3) Salvador Dali - L'apoth du dollar (1967) (MP3) Dial-a-Poem Poets - Sugar, Alcohol, ? Meat, 1980 (MP3) Henry Flynt Interview, Feb 25, 2004, WFMU (MP3) Alberto Giacometti - Autour de Giacometti (1953-1957) (MP3) Jean-Luc Godard - Interview with Serge Daney, French (early 1980s) (MP3) Jack Goldstein - Soundworks (1976-1984) (MP3) Bob Holman - In With The Out Crowd (MP3) Yves Klein - The Monotone Symphony (1949) (MP3) Alvin Lucier - A Sounds Waves Artist (Interview / Documentary) (2001) (MP3) Momus and Anne Laplantine - Summerisle Horspiel, 2003 (MP3) Max Neuhaus - Electronics and Percussion (1968) (MP3) Phillipe Sollers - La Parole de Rimbaud (French) (MP3) Rodrigo Toscano and Edwin Torres - Meditatio Lectoris (2002) (MP3) Gregory Whitehead - Various Pieces (1980s-present) (MP3) --- THE UBUWEB :: ANTHOLOGY OF CONCEPTUAL WRITING --- Howard Fried - "The Cheshire Cat, Part 1", 1972, (PDF) Bruce McLean - King for a Day --- CONTEMPORARY --- Jody Zellen - City Life (2003) --- ETHNOPOETICS--- Haroldo de Campos, from Galáxias: "Circuladô de fulô", (Introduction by A.S. Bessa) Heriberto Yépez -- Clock Woman in the Land of Mixed Feelings: The Place of Maria Sabina in Mexican Culture Heriberto Yépez -- Re-Reading María Sabina --- HISTORICAL--- Cornelius Cardew - "Stockhausen Serves Imperialism" (1974) Salvador Dali - "Conversations with Dali" (1965) Pablo Picasso - "A Picasso Sampler" --- PAPERS--- Charles Bernstein -- "An Interview with Richard Foreman" (1987) Marjorie Perloff -- "A Conversation with Charles Bernstein" (2003) Marjorie Perloff -- "Translating Brazilian Concrete Poetry: The French Connection" (2004) Neil Powell -- "Concrete Poetry and Conceptual Art: A Spectre at the Feast? Raphael Rubinstein -- "Gathered, Not Made: A Brief History of Appropriative Writing" __ U B U W E B __ http://ubu.com Apologies for cross-postings. Please forward. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:37:12 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: LYX ISH AUDIO WAKE Comments: To: oddmusic@yahoogroups.com, WRYTING-L Disciplines , dreamtime@yahoogroups.com, randomART@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LYX ISH AUDIO WAKE freeform improv radio art 72 hour memorial broadcast 87.9 in Viroqua, WI or streamed live on the web at: http://dreamtimevillage.org/wlyx/ requests & comments: zee_on@mwt.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:40:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Jezebel--Women Multimedia Artists Night at Galapagos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please forward to your friends Jezebel Women Multimedia Artists at Galapagos Worship Now! Digital Video Goddesses with Sonic Sirens Become a supplicant today! chiaki with bubblyfish Wanda Phipps with Adam Kendall Kaesha KVK Miixxy DJ Honeychild Come for the Gear Girls, Stay for the Burlesque Monday March 8 7 to 9 PM $5 cover Galapagos Art Space 70 North 6 Street Williamsburg, Brooklyn, NY http://www.miixxy.com/jezebel http://www.galapagosartspace.com miixxy@miixxy.com 718.384.4586 Jezebel **second Monday of the month at Galapagos** Coming April 12 and May 10 Check website for lineup -- Wanda Phipps Hey, don't forget to check out my website MIND HONEY http://users.rcn.com/wanda.interport (and if you have already try it again) poetry, music and more! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:06:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Burt Hatlen Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 2 Mar 2004 to 3 Mar 2004 (#2004-64) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am out of e-mail contact until March 13. I will respond promptly to your message after that date. Burt Hatlen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:32:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: 3 images MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII http://www.asondheim.org/overthere.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/overthere2.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/vienna1941.jpg some smaller images, easy to see, from far-away locations. there are just three of them and they don't take very much energy. Alan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:54:20 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anselm Hollo Subject: Re: blog arguments / amato / quote correction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << ... what anselm hollo posted here not long ago about poetry being a "dangerous toy" (he was quoting someone else, yes?) >> (Joe Amato) Can't recall quoting myself, but, in any case, the correct version is: always treat language like a dangerous toy p. 235, Notes on the Possibilities and Attractions of Existence: Selected Poems 1965-2000. Coffee House Press, 2001. Still in print. Highly recommended. By me, the author. AH ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:08:00 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: blog arguments / amato / quote correction In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Can't resist - you were probably quoting me, Anselm they use words like dangerous toys spinning a beam of colours into a white shield (This is the Stone, Penguin Books, 1991, pulped, not so recommended by me, the author) On 4/3/04 4:54 PM, "Anselm Hollo" wrote: > << ... what anselm hollo posted here not long ago about poetry being a > "dangerous toy" (he was quoting someone else, yes?) >> (Joe Amato) > > Can't recall quoting myself, but, in any case, the correct version is: > > always treat language like a dangerous toy > > p. 235, Notes on the Possibilities and Attractions of Existence: Selected > Poems 1965-2000. Coffee House Press, 2001. Still in print. Highly > recommended. > By me, the author. > > AH Alison Croggon Editor, Masthead http://www.masthead.net.au Home page http://www.alisoncroggon.com Blog http://alisoncroggon.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 02:16:27 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: i am very sorry to miss hearing Michael McClure read at St Marks In-Reply-To: <0HU100F0CCVSAJ@egraine.ilstu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed truly. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:12:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Rumsfeld is one of my personal heroes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rumsfeld is one of my personal heroes. Read "Rumsfeld's War". He using = the Delta Force Navy SEAL's to stamp out terrorism in every corner of = the globe. He is policing the globe to protect us from nuclear-armed = countries run by extremist clerics. Rumsfeld is also a proponent of the = individual's rights to sexual orientation. He and Cheney and Rice are = the real heroes of our times. Bush is listening to them. It doesn't = matter if he himself is flawed. We are all. He is less flawed in fact = then many people who post to this list. I wouldn't name names because I = choose to take the high road, but ask yourself: would you want any of = the diva poets or academicians on this list running our government. Of = course not. That is why a great man like Bush is the head of our Nation = and why diva poets read to cults at open mic's. It's child's play to be = a diva and a prima dona poet or poetess and truly heroic to change the = world. Angel head Angel alone and instead of alone and instead of The highest hours and her skin Finally Here The highest hours and alone and instead of her skin Finally Here =20 happy gates then happy gates then your OK right here As Mmmmmmm I taste =20 your OK right here As happy gates then Mmmmmmm I taste =20 =20 this Home And all this Home And all taken our too was you taken our this Home And all too was you breasts rubbing across breasts rubbing across that way as to her lives too closely in that way as to her breasts rubbing across lives too closely in reply know my mouth reply know my mouth and would being won hung the sign and would being won reply know my mouth hung the sign my thoughts into then my thoughts into then would you like to come Vishna is represented would you like to come my thoughts into then Vishna is represented =20 you inform me ladies you inform me ladies was white as marble and decide questions of was white as marble you inform me ladies and decide questions of through her thoughts through her thoughts years The flame of been happy and that years The flame of through her thoughts been happy and that =20 the next Towards the the next Towards the reach easily fit two Jon I never wow reach easily fit two the next Towards the Jon I never wow =20 stood bending over him stood bending over him do Miss Weston the moment of the work do Miss Weston stood bending over him the moment of the work =20 They the teacher was They the teacher was remain for an turned were twelve males remain for an turned They the teacher was were twelve males =20 causes want what causes want what glimmer of lamp which feel to be right and glimmer of lamp which causes want what feel to be right and =20 just daylight never just daylight never held my breath waiting thoughtful and earnest held my breath waiting just daylight never thoughtful and earnest =20 of my hair eyes of my hair eyes mother had found her shaft had come back mother had found her of my hair eyes shaft had come back =20 the happiness in store the happiness in store guys went by He knew Then he had to sit and guys went by He knew the happiness in store Then he had to sit and OHHHHHHHYESSSSSSS OHHHHHHHYESSSSSSS fuck her don't do that dove under the water fuck her don't do that OHHHHHHHYESSSSSSS dove under the water =20 strange conclusion to strange conclusion to brother and pulled him go to jail for loving brother and pulled him strange conclusion to go to jail for loving and giggle his He fell and giggle his He fell the baggage desk in the cock ohhh for Europe the baggage desk in the and giggle his He fell cock ohhh for Europe =20 door to one of the door to one of the experience such rush ready for it If you experience such rush door to one of the ready for it If you =20 Ada must be mine Ada must be mine about our lives up up Angel head Angel about our lives up up Ada must be mine Angel head Angel ::August_Highland:: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:22:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Re: i am very sorry to miss hearing Michael McClure read at St Marks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am not sorry at all.=20 Here is a submission I just received from Australia.=20 "Cook in a cold climate" by Ian Smith =20 Picture his ship in Antarctic seas sailing through the shadow that is night, its wooden structure lit by lanterns, icicles glimmering golden & the cold the cold stabbing sailors to the bone, ice cracking beneath a shooting star. Now there is no turning back. =20 One major collision with a ghostly shape & they're all dead in minutes. No flares, no life preservers no radio to pick up a mayday call. Not even a winner's cheque or tabloid story. Those voyagers pass this night in history seen & heard by no-one but each other on the way to their own slow oblivion, charting the eternal ocean bravely singing chanteys to an old concertina, husky notes sighing towards the stars as the Earth continues to turn, that silent whirring in the cold, pure dark. =20 ********=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:40:57 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: Rumsfeld is one of my personal heroes In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Is this a joke? On 4/3/04 7:12 PM, "August Highland" wrote: > Rumsfeld is one of my personal heroes. Read "Rumsfeld's War". He using the > Delta Force Navy SEAL's to stamp out terrorism in every corner of the globe. > He is policing the globe to protect us from nuclear-armed countries run by > extremist clerics. Rumsfeld is also a proponent of the individual's rights to > sexual orientation. He and Cheney and Rice are the real heroes of our times. > Bush is listening to them. It doesn't matter if he himself is flawed. We are > all. He is less flawed in fact then many people who post to this list. I > wouldn't name names because I choose to take the high road, but ask yourself: > would you want any of the diva poets or academicians on this list running our > government. Of course not. That is why a great man like Bush is the head of > our Nation and why diva poets read to cults at open mic's. It's child's play > to be a diva and a prima dona poet or poetess and truly heroic to change the > world. Alison Croggon Editor, Masthead http://www.masthead.net.au Home page http://www.alisoncroggon.com Blog http://alisoncroggon.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 04:05:47 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: McClure/Silliman at St. Marks.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit side room...full up... 5 men to 1 (wo0)men.. we inherit ashes.... beauty hurts... the history of recording... not visa but Mastercard Visa... real to reel..you left the tape on for a lifetime... help...throw this sailor... a mae west...overboard.. grrrrrr... drn....March/04 115 E. 9th up the block but far away ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:24:06 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Pam=20Brown?= Subject: Re: Blog Arguments... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit All obvious comments but how much time is there in one daily life for reading blogs, for writing blogs...I see them as public diaries or journals...I write my notes in private. I only read Ron Silliman's & Cassie Lewis's blogs.And I visit Steve Evans' factory.(I've been to the lime tree too).But I don't have the time...I have a job, a relationship, friends,family, books, tv, video, film, concerts (Youssou N'Dour last night - fabulous), theatre, movies, ferry rides, exercise, swimming, watering a few plants around my block of flats..I have websites, websites, websites. I have subscriptions to magazines. I have this list... I have to write some poetry too... I see blogs as journals & poetry or literary ones as texty versions of those early webcam diaries. I don't really care which web form wins whatever it is...I like this list even though I rarely enter the discourse. I live in Australia & enjoy this connection. That's my two bob's, two cent's, five dollars,one thousand rupees', two euros' worth on it.. Best wishes listees, Pam Brown ===== Web site/Pam Brown - http://www.geocities.com/p.brown/ Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:36:41 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Todd Swift Subject: 12 poets in March from nthposition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable New poetry in March from Nthposition now online... Featuring: the return of the ring, the problem of the ring, in praise of = uselessness, da/a-da by Maxine Chernoff m-Tal=E1 (excerpt) by Chus Pato and Er=EDn Mour=E9 (translator) In the name of the tyrant, Apache tears, Those Greek warriors & Dragon = Hill by Rebecca Seiferle Also: Six poems by Noel Rooney Fluntern Cemetery by Laurence O'Dwyer Sling & Complicity by Sheila E Murphy Loving the suburbs, Morning spell & Promise by Mark Leech "If you think they don't go crazy in tiny rooms" by Ali Riley I only ever sought approval & Sex in the confines by Amy King Atom dead latex by Dee Rimbaud Umbrella girls by Raymond Filip You deserve love & I am throwing myself at you by Sherwin Tjia *** Now reading for April (our second anniversary) and May issues. - apologies for cross-posting - ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: sent by Todd Swift, London http://www.toddswift.com http://www.nthposition.com - poetry editor ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 06:47:15 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Lundwall Subject: the poetics listserv Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the poetics listserv sometimes scares me... thank you, andrew lundwall _________________________________________________________________ Find things fast with the new MSN Toolbar – includes FREE pop-up blocking! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:23:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: Rumsfeld is one of my personal heroes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, and how "personal" is he a hero for you? > Is this a joke? > > On 4/3/04 7:12 PM, "August Highland" wrote: > > > Rumsfeld is one of my personal heroes. Read "Rumsfeld's War". He using the > > Delta Force Navy SEAL's to stamp out terrorism in every corner of the globe. > > He is policing the globe to protect us from nuclear-armed countries run by > > extremist clerics. Rumsfeld is also a proponent of the individual's rights to > > sexual orientation. He and Cheney and Rice are the real heroes of our times. > > Bush is listening to them. It doesn't matter if he himself is flawed. We are > > all. He is less flawed in fact then many people who post to this list. I > > wouldn't name names because I choose to take the high road, but ask yourself: > > would you want any of the diva poets or academicians on this list running our > > government. Of course not. That is why a great man like Bush is the head of > > our Nation and why diva poets read to cults at open mic's. It's child's play > > to be a diva and a prima dona poet or poetess and truly heroic to change the > > world. > > > > Alison Croggon > > Editor, Masthead > http://www.masthead.net.au > > Home page > http://www.alisoncroggon.com > > Blog > http://alisoncroggon.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 05:48:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Loden Subject: Re: Rumsfeld is one of my personal heroes In-Reply-To: <200403041323.IAA07915@isis.cnc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think this poem probably fails, ultimately--but since Rummy's on deck. . . . Sympathy for the Empire Aggressive fighting for the right is the noblest sport the world affords. --Teddy Roosevelt, quoted on Rumsfeld's desk Sometimes old Rough Riders get kicked upstairs to Kommissar. The music of the spheres sounds a little fainter then, and we hear instead the creaking of the machinery of heaven. ~ Why does the market swoon, dropping a hanky? Investors have priced in a quick, successful war, and if a hospital ship sails out of Baltimore it must be filled, it cannot come home empty. ~ John Wayne, born Marion Michael Morrison, is the gunslinger you want to harness lawlessness in Shinbone. So the plaque on Rumsfeld's desk is all about the noblest sport, the one you win ~ by being John Wayne, or just being _right_. But it is a bunch of teenage privates in Kuwait who have to spill out of their Bradleys through the black smoke of live-fire exercise ~ as sand insinuates itself into night-vision eyes. The desert is a sea of rocking, luminous green as Rummy wields his dictaphone, white memos drifting through the Pentagon like snow. ---------------------------------------------------------- Rachel Loden from the current _Denver Quarterly_ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:09:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: kirby MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kirby, trying to send mail to you and it gets bounced back. have you changed = your e-mail or something? MR Michael Rothenberg walterblue@bigbridge.org Big Bridge www.bigbridge.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:21:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Nick Piombino's ::fait accompli:: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Please visit http://nickpiombino.blogspot.com/ (As seen on the Poetics List:) *The Loneliness of the Long Distance Blogger* Excerpts from : Guy Debord John Perrault Paul Auster Theodore Adorno Arthur Miller List of over 25 new links: ((((BLOGLINK))))((((CRUSHLIST)))) On the sidebar: Hot Off The Press, Readings in New York, San Francisco, Boston, Washington DC, Seattle, **** Over 80,000 hits since 5/23/03 visit our Bloglist on the EPC http://epc.buffalo.edu/connects/blogs.htm ** We appreciate your patronage ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:58:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Lowther Subject: angry trippy art site In-Reply-To: <015401c401e5$59b1ce60$af502cd9@D70HLP0J> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this person might be local atlanta, i don't know. their announcement came fully formatted like, well, spam. my email program even thought it was junkmail. cool site tho, palpable rage & shiny packaging. forward / share / etc http://www.imissamerrykuh.com/about.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:12:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: ** Editors, Designers, Ad Sales People Wanted for Boog City ** MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, We're looking for a few (more) good people here at Boog City: * art director--knowledge of quark, photoshop * layout formatter--knowledge of quark, photoshop * copy editor--knowledge of AP style * ad sales--people who can sell ads on a commission basis to east village businesses or nationally to small press publishers and indie record labels, among others. If you want to help Boog City but do not have any of these skills, I can teach you all of them. If you are interested in any of these positions, and would like more information, please backchannel: editor@boogcity.com as ever, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 www.boogcity.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:15:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: separate but equal In-Reply-To: <1078416773.4047558533462@boogcity.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PLEASE FORWARD http://transdada.blogspot.com/ there are many images that flashes before our eyes, and it's hard to put them all together... but there seems to be this on going subtle hidden link, or maybe many links.. but a couple for me are troubling one problem is most do not see *gay marriage* as a civil rights issues. so, the recent comments in congress about putting the *gay marriage wild fires out,* makes sense, if it is a moral issues, those doing the evil deeds are immoral, and as one columnist wrote, this is the second front confronting amerika, the first being the terrorist, and both must be stopped. the second underling red flag is the recent announcement of segregated schools, for *boys* and *girls*... which on the surface seems like a good idea, since there is evidence of different learning styles, but this idea further propagates a proper place for men, and a proper place for woman, which is morally based, and social construct for, separate but equal, based on some essence and or quality of character of gender. it is true there are learning differences between some, but it seems to easy to segregate, instead of addressing the dynamics of teaching, education and the social construct of gender. so what we have is segregation, where the potential of enforced gender stereotyping can take place, queerness crushed, and the institution of marriage between a man(sic) and woman(sic) can take place in perfect harmony, with everything in its proper place... and do not kid your self.. this is set up to get the christian conservatives and women's vote... KEEP THE FIRES BUrNING even if your note queer, grab someone (who looks like the same gender as you) and go and try to get married.... do it in every-town and city.. http://transdada.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:17:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Now available: The February Project, a correspondence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit please forward --------------- Now available from 213 Euclid Avenue: The February Project by Gina Myers and David Kirschenbaum "The February Project, a collaboration between David Kirschenbaum and Gina Myers, is more than simply a daily exchange of letters. It is the chance to get to know two people as they get to know each other, through an honest epistolary form. The reader witnesses good days, victories, the monotony of office work, and most other daily events that people take for granted, but really shouldn't. These letters bring the everyday to a new level, make the reader realize what a good friendship truly means, and allows one to see beauty in the smallest details." --Erica Kaufman, co-editor Belladonna* Books The February Project is 8.5" x 11", saddle-stapled, 36 pages, and contains all 58 letters of this month-long, daily email correspondence. Published in a signed and numbered edition of 29 copies. (see a sample exchange below this email.) To order, please send check or money order for $6 payable to: David Kirschenbaum 213 Euclid Avenue 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H New York, NY 10001-4754 ----- Sat. 2.14.04 12:24pm David, I don't remember the 1997 NBA finals--I do remember hating the Chicago Bulls and hating Michael Jordan, but that's only because I grew up in Michigan and had to be a Pistons fan. But even my fandom didn't last until 1997. In 1997 I was a junior in high school, I turned 17 that August right before the start of my senior year. I was applying to colleges--actually, I only applied to one. And I was accepted. And then I didn't go. I had to call the school a week before classes were to start and tell them I wouldn't be going there. I had gotten a letter with my housing assignment, I was going to be living with four other people in a room that was only meant for four people. My brother had told me not to worry--someone always drops out. And that was me. The dropout. It is one of those forking paths that I don't waste my time thinking about--but what if I had gone? What would my life be like? There was a novel I read this summer--and I don't remember the author's name write now-- called "D'Alembert's Priniciple: A Novel in Three Panels." And one section involved "the cosmography of Mangus Ferguson," who was supposed to be a philosopher of sorts. He didn't know whether it had been a dream or if he had visited another planet, but he saw himself splitting and splitting into more and more people each time a decision had to be made, so that one version of himself followed out each possible outcome, and that version would eventually split too. Essentially the whole planet he was on was occupied by copies of himself. This knowledge only came to him because another version of himself had written him a letter, and the version that was narrating the story, had been in the position to read the letter. Anyhow, I don't really care what my life would have been like had a made a million other choices than the ones I have made. I'm pretty happy with where I am at now, pretty happy with the individual I have become, and I know that I am who I am because of the experiences I have had. Anyhow, it is another beautiful day outside. Of course, I'm on my way to work right now: 1-9 today. So by the time I get out it will be cold again and the sun will be long gone. Gina 2.14.04 - 11:50 p.m. Dear Gina, A few days before Prozac led Abbie Hoffman to suicide in April 1989, he spoke at Vanderbilt University. He talked about the battles that he waged in the 1960s against racism, poverty, and the vietnam war. He ended the speech, "We were young, we were reckless, arrogant, silly, headstrong - and we were right. I regret nothing." I went with Ian to the memorial they held at the old Palladium night club on E.14th street--where NYU dorms now sit next to the P.C. Richard appliance store. Inside the club they were handing out programs, with pictures of ‘60s and ‘80s Abbie facing each other, and that quotation on the reverse. It's a simple sentiment, no regrets. I say I have no regrets, though I know I do. But like you I know that all these choices, good and bad, have made me me, and though at times I'm indifferent to me, I never hate me and I like the way I treat people, even if I don't treat myself so nicely all the time. * saw my friend alan semerdjian play music tonight at a hippie cafe near my parents' house. i don't tell anyone i'm going to attend their events anymore. I always say I'm going to do my best to be there, if i say anything at all. i've been disappointed too often by people who tell me they're coming to some of two thousand events, the best always being the day-of call for directions and time it's really starting and then not showing up priceless. nowadays when people apologize to me for not making one of my events i simply tell them, "don't worry about it. i throw so many events, the only person who should be at all of them is me." but this not telling people you're going to their events is also fun, especially for the events that they wouldn't ever think you're going to. like tonight at this hippie coffee house the cup in long island, i show up and alan is all startle-excited to see me and he reaches out with his hand and pulls me in for a hug. it's valentine's day and i'm alone but i'm not really thinking about it, but here I am writing about it, so, okay, it was on my mind. but i mean, i pay it no heed as i haven't been in love on this day since 1995, so i'm used to it. alan started the night with elvis costello's "alison," one of two songs I played on permanent repeat for hours, for days right after first ex-gf did the ex-ing of me. and the girl at the table next to mine asks if i know alan after he and i head nod toward each other. "I'm Amy" she says, puts out her hand for me to shake and the rest of the night she and I and her friend Beth are talking, amy and i smiling at each other throughout the show. it's a nice tonic on another night without love. "what if I were Romeo in black jeans what if I was Heathcliff, it's no myth maybe she's just looking for someone to dance with" --Michael Penn xo david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcity.blog-city.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:03:17 -0600 Reply-To: Chuck Stebelton Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chuck Stebelton Subject: March events at Myopic Books Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MYOPIC POETRY SERIES -- a weekly series of readings and poets' talks Myopic Books in Chicago -- Sundays at 7:00 / 1564 N. Milwaukee Avenue MARCH EVENTS Sunday March 7 - Gabriel Gudding and John Beer Gabriel Gudding's first book, A Defense of Poetry was published by the Univ= ersity of Pittsburgh press as part of their Pitt Poetry Series in=C3=82=C2= =A0 November, 2002.=C3=82=C2=A0 His work has appeared in journals like Amer= ican Poetry Review, L=C3=83=C2=ADBourgeoizine, Fence, VeRT,=C3=82=C2=A0 etc= .=C3=82=C2=A0 He is currently an assistant professor of English at Illinois= State University where he teaches quote experimental unquote poetry. He ha= s started 2 creative writing programs in prisons and is looking to start so= me trouble in the maximum security facility in Pontiac (downstate) this sem= ester. He was born in Minnesota, and has lived in San Francisco, LA, Seattl= e, Port Townsend Washington, Olympia, Indiana, New York, and Mississippi. H= e is very glad to be out of Mississippi.=20 John Beer lives in Chicago. His poems and essays have appeared in periodica= ls including Chicago Review, Chicago Tribune, Crowd, Verse, Colorado Review= , Barrow Street, and the Review of Contemporary Fiction. Sunday March 14 - William Allegrezza William Allegrezza teaches and writes from his base in Chicago. His poems, = translations, essays, and reviews have been published in several countries,= including the U.S., Holland, Finland, and Australia, and are available in = many online journals. His chapbook lingo was published by subontic press an= d his e-book Temporal Nomads can be downloaded from xPress(ed) www.xpressed= .org/title3.html. Also, he is the editor of moria www.moriapoetry.com , a j= ournal dedicated to experimental poetry and poetics. Sunday March 21 - Srikanth Reddy Srikanth (Chicu) Reddy's first collection of poetry, "Facts for Visitors," = is coming out with the New California Poetry Series on the=20 University of California Press this Spring. His poems have appeared in vari= ous journals, including APR, Fence, Grand Street, Ploughshares, and Verse. = He is currently the Poet-in-Residence at the University of Chicago." Sunday March 28 - Jackie Lalley and Richard Fox Jackie Lalley's work has been published or is forthcoming in Bridge, the Ha= rvard Review, the Nebraska Review, and other publications. She programs the= Discovery Reading Series at the Poetry Center of Chicago and is organizing= a local chapter of the Independent Press Association. She provides publish= ing and nonprofit development services as a consultant, mostly to nonprofit= s. Richard Fox lives and works in Chicago. He has contributed poems to TriQuar= terly, The Diagram, Spinning Jenny, Folio, Painted Bride Quarterly, Rhino a= nd other journals. Work is forthcoming in the journal, Paper Street. He rec= orded a CD in 2001. One of his poems has been nominated for a Pushcart Priz= e in 2004. He was awarded a project grant from the City of Chicago Departme= nt of Cultural Affairs in 2001, a Full Fellowship in Poetry from the Illino= is Arts Council in 2000, and a residency at the Millay Colony for the Arts = in 2000. He holds a BFA in Photography from Tyler School of Art in Philadel= phia. UPCOMING EVENTS April 4 -- Buck Downs April 11 -- Nathalie Stephens and Joel Felix April 18 -- Clayton Eshleman=20 April 25 -- Li Bloom=20 May 2 -- "Talking about the Talk Poem" -- John Beer May 9 -- Rachel Levitsky May 16 -- Elizabeth Hatmaker=20 May 23 -- April Sheridan May 30 -- Dana Ward June 20 -- Amina Cain and Luba Halicki http://www.myopicbookstore.com/poetry.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:36:56 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Re: the poetics listserv In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT treat the poetics listserve like a dangerous toy On Thu, 4 Mar 2004, Andrew Lundwall wrote: > the poetics listserv sometimes scares me... > > thank you, > > andrew lundwall > > _________________________________________________________________ > Find things fast with the new MSN Toolbar – includes FREE pop-up blocking! > http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ > -- --------------------------- http://paulmartintime.ca/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:41:21 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: poetry as self-glorification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Joseph, I want this to be true. At Naropa there was a fascinating evening with John Cage at some point in the 70s. It's documented in one of the Naropa compendium volumes -- I think called Talking Poetics if memory serves. During one of Cage's silence pieces two people began laughing. Cage grew furious and admonished them. Apparently he had something that was HIS silence, and it didn't include gigglers. I was amazed by this -- how even silence can be somehow folded into a shape that seemed like art, and another silence would not have any taste to it, and would not be allowed. This was to be CAGE's SILENCE, and not ours. I don't think you can get rid of the ego, or whatever it is, the imperialistic aspect of an individual, or even a class. You have to instead work with it. For instance, in Haiti I don't think the right idea is to ban the business class, or even to destroy them, but to somehow get them to work in terms of a long-term selfishness, as opposed to a short-term. You can't root out the impure aspects of a person without killing them. The ugliness of a person is linked to their beauty. I don't know what this means in terms of a poetic community. It's in everybody's long-term interest to try to create a community of great poets, since poets only seem to come in rather large clumps -- they need to come as a group of say 10-15 poets, with three or four of them as the best of the lot. Great poets almost never arrive solo. Perhaps the better poet clumps are thinking of themselves as cooperative, along Brent Bechtel's thinking. There has to be rivalry and sniping. Even great boxers come in clumps -- Foreman and Ali and Frazier -- the genius of one called to the genius of the others. This rivalry, as the rivalry among the Elizabethans, or among the playwrights of Athens, has to be encouraged. We need to foster competition and meanness, as well as respect. Or at least try not to get rid of the meanness, and the petty ambition. Great poetry, like a great city, has to begin with a basic instinct like self-glorification and profit, but hopefully morph into something else. -- Kirby Joseph Thomas wrote: > --- Kirby Olson wrote: > I am probably naive, but I think poetry is mainly > self-glorification. > If it > isn't that, I might be misreading it. > =5F=5F=5F > > And perhaps I'm naive, but while I think poetry can be > self-glorifying, it can also be about creating > something interesting with language or with traditions > of discourse (not all poetry is made of language). I > recall John Cage's remark about finding "a way of > writing that, though coming from ideas, is not about > them but produces them." I like this productive > conception of writing. Not using art to produce > monuments, but to produce thought, to produce ideas. > > Best, > Joseph > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster > http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:51:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Shankar, Ravi (English)" Subject: A Review of Adrienne Rich in light of Poetry and Moral Vision MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See: -RS=20 *************** Ravi Shankar=20 Poet-in-Residence Assistant Professor CCSU - English Dept. 860-832-2766 shankarr@ccsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:06:38 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dale Smith Subject: Hejinian & Vicuna Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" There are some new short pieces Lyn Hejinian's The Beginner and a recent "performance" by Cecilia Vicuna at www.skankypossum.com/pouch. -- Dale Smith 2925 Higgins Street Austin, Texas 78722 www.skankypossum.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:20:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: from women Comments: To: WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA Comments: cc: Rhizome , Screenburn Screenburn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Stung my eyes with smoke. Clinging to a hung of coral, muddy, numb. That's me in the back among black bandages, heated by my own decomposition. "They don't remember my name there, but you push that yellow light like slush through my cells, and now goddamnit it's raining posies across my dick!" Tying it off, foaming as the mouth moistens with moth thumbs. Om. Or saviors too almost lose sullen followers to those wars of sodden farmers at mulch with the chum. In early thirteenth century Nova Scotia, serfs under rule spray basic furrows with fish heads. They grew into moss the way asimuth peppered your epigrams with a condescending salt. I know you like this; you like it in you. You're still leaving your footprints there, to stale in snow so dark David Rounds has to fight to read. Instead, I walk out to the old field, on ice warm and still blushing, and almost tumble right into the gash a new school left. "And here, where I learned an early erasure, on Oberlin Avenue fat and acne'd and in a black t-shirt, now churned under and gaping, now these snow-laced walks are no part of me, now seperate and objective like similes geld drives and lanes and courts aching to be in New England." With a book of xerox poems under my arm, taking them to John's because there's a tinfoil fold of four hits of acid between Chris Franke. "And the dead too curl their toes in a frost they can't feel; they testify to your dissolution, the way it ululates like telephones and sacrament, the way they cascade unquiet through tangled dreams; all the bubbles popping when they hit the surface, bathwater brown. " You're going to blow. At this moment, to preserve memory, this handhead machine is rubbing its own boards with small doses of charge. Are Sam and Mindy electric, as in what spark of his makes her laugh? I fall low like buildings growling to keep the houses in the suburbs busy. "A link taster." You have to draw harder on joints. I crack as I stand. Half an hour to go, and still ogling the support of space empathizing around me. What a shame. That hole in the street by the cemetary scares me. She believes that the dead will return to feed on us. Tearing apart warm strips of fried chicken; breading crackles, and you hear in the room that salty smack of nutrition. "Shesleeps off a sex hunger for guns and rum. With a xerox book of prachment under your arm. You just happen to know the arcs and endearments of such shallow composition, as well as mock wool when churches force mean annuals astride a mop's throat. As she negotiates satiation, the comforter rasps against unshaved legs. It is warm, raw. A pride of harm. " Being an adult means not killing those that hurt you. Tell yourself you'll start again. Less selection tempts keeping an open mind about bandaged gag reflections furnished athwart rows of surplus cornice eventually. Towels. Lots simmering beneath immersed and desperate sunshine. You reel your hand there. Does play have a face? Her clitoris sifts down your throat. Took and takes it, is is is. I am a test-toyfor inanimate objects that fuck. ===== This is as useful as a doll.--Gertrude Stein Poem of the Day: http://www.lewislacook.com/POD Sidereality: http://www.sidereality.com/ -------- http://www.lewislacook.com/ Stamen Pistol: http://stamenpistol.blogspot.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:40:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Haiti MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain There is an excellent editorial in this morning's LA TIMES by Jeffrey D. Sachs, titled "From His First Day in Office, Bush Was Ousting Aristide." I wanted to copy it to the list, but seem to be having a problem with my LA TIMES site registration. It's well worth a look. In the meantime -- things we learned in Congress yesterday from Powell and Noriega, who had declared "nonsense" the charges made against the administration in this episode. The administration testifies that they did in fact tell Aristide that they could not and would not protect his life or the lives of his family from the rebels. (note that upon his departure they immediately offered protection to a successor.) The administration acknowledges that they were aware of the criminal backgrounds of the rebel leaders. The administration has now acknowledged that they told Aristide they would not help him exit the country unless and until he signed a letter of resignation. (though Noriega went on to say that, despite having told Aristide this, they "probably" would have rescued him anyway -- note that Aristide's wife is a US Citizen, and that the stated purpose of the Marines in Haiti at that moment was to "rescue" US citizens.) The administration has now acknowledged that Aristide did not know where he was being taken when he was put on the airplane. The administration acknowledges that Aristide was not allowed to communicate with anybody at this point. There are reports that the US prevented his US-based security company from reinforcing Aristide's protection detail -- the administration doesn't want to address that issue, it would seem. The administration offers no explanation for the large shipment of arms from the US to the Dominican Republic during the time that the "rebels" were crossing back into Haiti from their exile. As one congressman asked repeatedly, how is this not a coup? (I was glad, by the way, to see a member of congress make public reference to a dictionary! I haven't seen that since back when congress was parsing the phrase "sexual relations.") By any definition, this was not, as the White House still insists, a peaceful, democratic & constitutional outcome. favorite joke heard in this context: Why has there never been a coup in the United States? Because there's no U.S. Embassy here. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:42:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: blue charlie MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-mu8znGSL6/l2Di0EiQdn" --=-mu8znGSL6/l2Di0EiQdn Content-Type: text/plain I've got the twelve bar blues, and I don't know what to do. Got those twelve bar blues, baby, and can't even think what I'll do. Ain't but eleven bars in this town, baby, where I lost you. [with apologies to Langston Hughes and Sterling Brown] --=-mu8znGSL6/l2Di0EiQdn-- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:03:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Tom Raworth at RISD Comments: To: ubuweb@YAHOO.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline TOM RAWORTH will be reading at Rhode Island School of Design (Carr Haus = Cafe, corner of Waterman & Benefit, Providence) on Wednesday March 10th at = 7pm. Free & More Free & Open to the Public. Mair=E9ad Byrne Assistant Professor of English Rhode Island School of Design Providence, RI 02903 www.wildhoneypress.com www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:29:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: REMINDER: POG: Nathaniel Tarn & Janet Rodney Saturday evening March 6; Tarn talk/discussion, Sunday afternoon March 7 Comments: To: Tenney Nathanson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit REMINDER: for immediate release; please re-post this message to other pertinent lists to get the word out! www.gopog.org POG presents poet Nathaniel Tarn poet/artist Janet Rodney Saturday, March 6, at 7pm Dinnerware Gallery 210 N. Fourth Avenue Admission $5; students $3 and a discussion with Nathaniel Tarn Sunday, March 7, at 2pm at Dinnerware Nathaniel Tarn writes: “One subject I am always interested in is the question of simplicity/complexity in poetry and the sociological factors involved in creating each. I am genuinely interested in peoples' ideas about this so that an interactive seminar would be best for me.” An online copy of Tarn’s essay “Regarding the Issue of ‘New Forms,’” which people might be interested in looking at before the discussion, will be available on the pog website. (Admission: $5; students $3) Nathaniel Tarn: As poet, essayist, translator, and editor, Nathaniel Tarn has published some twenty-five books, among them The Beautiful Contradictions, Lyrics for the Bride of God, a Selected Poems: 1950-2000 published just over a year ago by Wesleyan, a celebrated translation of Pablo Neruda's The Heights of Macchu Picchu, and an anthology of his collected essays in literary and cultural criticism, Views from the Weaving Mountain. He is the recipient of numerous awards including the Guinness prize, the Wenner Gren fellowship, a Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Fellowship, and a Rockefeller Foundation Fellowship. Janet Rodney: poet, prose writer and visual artist Janet Rodney is the author of Orphydice, Atitlan / Alashka (with Nathaniel Tarn), and the meditative memoir The Book of Craving. Rodney was raised in Europe, the United States, and Taiwan, then spent fifteen years in Spain as a journalist, editor, translator, and interpreter. She is a lay nun in the Zen Buddhist tradition and proprietor of Weaselsleeves, a fine letterpress studio. for links to web materials by or about Nathaniel Tarn and Janet Rodney please go to www.gopog.org POG events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council, the Arizona Commission on the Arts, and the National Endowment for the Arts. POG also benefits from the continuing support of The University of Arizona Poetry Center, the Arizona Quarterly, Chax Press, and The University of Arizona Department of English. We also thank the following 2003-2004 POG donors: Patrons Liisa Phillips, Austin Publicover, and Jesse & Wendy Roberts; Sponsors Michael Gessner, Maggie Golston, Steve Romaniello, and Frances Sjoberg. for further information contact POG: 615-7803; mailto:pog@gopog.org; www.gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:13:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Events at the Poetry Project 3/8-3/10 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable This just in: The Poetry Project=B9s Announcements page is now up and running= , rearing to go, fresh-faced, bright-eyed, and in a state of consistent updated-ness. Check out the latest and greatest Poetry News at www.poetryproject.com/announcements. * Monday, March 8 Amra Brooks & Simone White Amra Brooks recently moved back to her native California after nine years i= n Brooklyn. She is currently working on a collection of stories as well as a novel named after her home state. She teaches writing at UC San Diego, live= s in LA, and spends her summers working on her MFA at Bard College. Simone White is an MFA candidate at the New School and a Cave Canem fellow. She lives in Philadelphia where she practices law. [8:00 pm] =20 Wednesday, March 10 George Schneeman: Painter Among Poets A book party and reading to celebrate the publication of Painter Among Poets: The Collaborative Art of George Schneeman (Granary Books), the first retrospective presentation of the wide range of art works that Schneeman ha= s created with poets over the past thirty-five years. Painter Among Poets not only investigates Schneeman=B9s enthusiasm for free-wheeling collaboration, i= t also considers his work as part of the remarkable modernist tradition of poet/painter collaboration. Always open to spontaneity and engagement, Schneeman encourages poets to contribute visual elements in order to create surprising works that neither artist nor poet could have done alone. As critic Carter Ratcliff, a poet himself, notes, =B3the Schneeman collaboration= s are completely unregulated, and they were carried out in free-flowing situations where art and poetry were only part of what was going on.=B2 Painter Among Poets offers a behind-the-scenes look at the high-wire proces= s of collaboration as an outgrowth of Schneeman=B9s friendship with poets Bill Berkson, Ted Berrigan, Michael Brownstein, Tom Clark, Edwin Denby, Larry Fagin, Dick Gallup, Allen Ginsberg, Ted Greenwald, Steve Katz, Lewis MacAdams, Alice Notley, Ron Padgett, Harris Schiff, Peter Schjeldahl, Tom Veitch, Anne Waldman, Lewis Warsh, and many others. Twelve of Schneeman=B9s collaborators have contributed personal commentaries and remembrances to th= e book, which also features an essay by Ratcliff, an extensive conversation between Schneeman and Padgett, and a bibliography. Beautifully illustrated with color and black-and-white reproductions, Painter Among Poets is an exciting reflection of the beauty, adventure, and energy of the work it documents. Readers to include Edmund Berrigan, Michael Brownstein, Larry Fagin, Ted Greenwald, Steve Katz, Ron Padgett, and Lewis Warsh, with other special guests TBA and a reception to follow. [8:00 pm] * =B3It is possible to become very fond of a trace, a story that is always the same.=B2--Carla Harryman * The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:17:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: lamer & the current fight MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII lamer & the current fight >d0 tbbofhwwm.exe XErl XFbZ%6Y I7R$ *i6K ,i`hAd F/>O gGE\ (Z "O83 4SD] Ly\]e` w$ysm 1S~l 6Uw== !X)\9 S)/-fS FYPwU5 D?>"z E@?~4fbq} -lD- +L_U rMXt KOZb slxO k~b1uJo \$#V 8oQZY= Q br] ;o>I \*B}q @x m ,2 F W8d^ r[(( ]F;\ Sb\' p]P_p9 /FKDq ^eTt7 C@YU$ TN0IK )s6KT *v)4 OD`r we-; {pvD /8'I# D7>4 ~rQ" @o+^z XH^_/ f1.g \dk+ V"IN !8$B /FM hVMX]? bbaO CBml 7\j<: LO*/zqE F6P[E: !HE?. WhTK6 Tp|Y rz $ lKJj I|A/$ qd0 tbbofhwwm.exePK rllxixxw.exe vR}qb !41K .L10 `"5d .p|: RE/: fiH~ 5pcvG p5<*jXOi ]:1Oi t"6` d=Af <#>7s w>X" /4ae A:Y1kGW ;p[W cPs O4{=Wq xX2" Z~zW -\*/& K:BV8 HCoa 2Hm' g)fD U af |_'A < d 1vnE E_U4 '22lr H$c9B p7||* -DxI }8ne A#6 N.!/ 3\fI z*de U%Rw0 gD-d 'Db8 1]h9 fum4 ]IpA T`*| -IRk "s|8 y+8&$ GTj5 o4[O [~FD Hj;KI'+y rm|j (j9! p"$1 2=`Y N!jNY ~|uL $j}B: -KQ5 7|Tg %Bgh $ik" \a!C !]VN NGTw *bW}r ;ec; q$(U =O25E 51ay6 Em#i PVG q|`s2 P-iB G'@aJ# Q*V+ !cgC d#WC *I.6 }e)a > gw a%vl e 5d z,+$ gz31 %(inU} %uou [dD:0V. O>'Su #*wbNs8c %[,\ i#0T ^(t' `(ZQ UVOZN$ f\'4 %~W% |=j- %PB %9cB jI5 ejeb ,`g/ I_vk w:1]=dE 3ye6 |'Yu e3Ze tF~X U3PKGaw zm7u )>s. 0i#8B Na|^ v?V-~ CL|. j})\ 9xC/ M\1f9R >ZI Eoxmk U%bk ~9>f 3~Eo q{.Q 4YQ) )k;m cWp"@ |yt( a4Vp -[ h $xUnL NX}r 8PO' r<+ky t6!= dgLpv n $@pV E4Qc? 5jI# yOu/ xOYt />5! ?xVq y@w+ HtR| mx=d 3Y(p 4v%3; /_lY eSn) jO@d E 3m ~'B Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larry Sawyer & Lina ramona Subject: Re: Bush Sep 11 ads/An insult to the American people MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please read the following and if you agree with its message forward it = to friends, and family members, and then elected officials--via local, = state, and Federal Web sites. The Bush Administration's crass appropriation of images depicting the = aftermath of the events of Sept. 11, 2001 is at the least sickening and = at the most truly frightening. That the Bush Administration would hold = up images of this horrible event as evidence of the good job they are = doing to protect the citizens of this great nation is quite frankly = unfathomable. In this day and age, propaganda in an election year is to = be expected, but the Bush Administration has gone too far. After George = W. Bush's media cohorts' original claim that they would never stoop so = low as to use these images to boost their political campaign, using fear = and paranoia to frighten the American public--well they have done just = that. The Bush Administration's original claim that using these images = to serve their political agenda would be morally reprehensible = underscores the fact that they are completely aware of their actions.=20 The Bush Administration cannot now claim ignorance or even claim that = they are merely acting in good faith as defenders of our great nation. = This cynical action exposes them for who they really are--ignorant = purveyors of damaging propaganda that distorts and insults the memory of = the innocent people that lost their lives that fateful day. This is not a matter of Republicans and Democrats and partisan politics. = This media campaign is morally reprehensible on a simply human level, = nothing more and nothing less! You can do something about this. We ask that you merely pass this message along to all the people that = you know--friends, acquaintances and relatives. Spread this message via = e-mail or print it out and mail it. Send this message to elected = officials at the local, state, and Federal level to show your extreme = distaste for this act of theft, for these people have stolen the = honorable memory of those that not only lost, but gave, their lives. The Bush Administration has stolen the memory of the darkest day in = American history--an attack on our soil--to further their own personal = goals with the ultimate goal of perpetuating their personal financial = gain. What follows are two quotes from a major network, news source = CBSNews.com "It's a slap in the face of the murders of 3,000 people," Monica = Gabrielle, whose husband died in the Twin Towers, told the New York = Daily News for its Thursday edition. "It is unconscionable." "It's as sick as people who stole things out of the place," said = firefighter Tommy Fee. "The image of firefighters at ground zero should = not be used for this stuff, for politics." --March 4, 2004 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:22:10 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Newman Organization: Nassau Community College Subject: Poetry as self-glorification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Seems to me that self-glorification, which can be self-indulgent or its opposite, is the big undefined term in this discussion. Any poetry that is not somehow rooted in the self, in an engagement with selfhood and does not through that engagement somehow glorify what it means to be a self/a human being, would, it seems to me, ultimately be dehumanizing in the way that all totalitarianisms are dehumanizing. Obviously that is not the same thing as saying that all poetry must be involved in a narrative way with the minutiae of the person who is writing it, but if poetry is not, like sex, an exploration of our individual and collective embodied human being, then it is not poetry. And along the same lines, but from a different source and slightly different perspective: "Poetry can only be an exploration of ideology, not a means of expressing belief in it. Reluctant to declare his ideology as the way out of alienation, Youssef shows how his ideology, transmuted within poetry, generates feelings of empathy and solidarity. For Youssef then, the commitment to justice and freedom stand beside his poetry, not above it. His political values, manifested in active participation in social struggle, are in reality fulfilling his abiding devotion to beauty. Justice and compassion in Youssef's verse are presented in a sensual manner that symbolizes his individualized appreciation of harmony and balance. They are aesthetic choices first and foremost." -Khaled Mattawa, "Introduction," Without An Alphabet, Without A Face: Selected Poems of Saadi Youssef Richard Newman ______________________________________ Richard Newman Associate Professor, English Chair, International Studies Committee Nassau Community College One Education Drive Garden City, NY 11530 O: (516) 572-7612 F: (516) 572-8134 newmanr@ncc.edu www.ncc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:38:14 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Gay Matrimony.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Personally i don't care a squat...if two men or two women wed and use Ralph Nader as protection against conception... but as someone who remembers pre roe/wade...i'd cut the nuptials short and sacrifice some marital bliss...boy/girl..ya don;t know what's you're in for...for a bit of psychle..(yiddish for common sense) jeez what happened to important stuffe like mass sex at the baths and a fist up all the tight places.. wed to regret..drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:06:03 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: 501 c 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What is your thought behind having your reading series be a 501 (c) 3? Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:55:38 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ela kotkowska Subject: Re: Bush Sep 11 ads/An insult to the American people In-Reply-To: <010501c40251$00f550a0$cb43a243@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes. i heard it on the radio this morning. (...) * historical battles are fought for the ownership of history. * we are truly ambushed. * Bush Administration? i hope to have something else administered than bush. the nation has suffered enough indigestion. * indignation! * have your next president packaged and delivered to your door in your favorite format. the doormat format. * bush would make a bristly one. * the question is whether wmd's should be sold over or under the counter. as soon as they find them. * and the flag lagged behind. it was too-well travelled and had a jet-lag. * there are countries in which you don't need any votes to be reelected. * over a year ago, i heard a computer expert spit on the electronic voting machine. i clearly remember, she listed ways of rigging their brains while triggering correct sample-test results. an error creeps in at the point where there are no hands to recount. * so, i didn't see the ad, but upon hearing its description, i could not help laughing: it's like rainbow icecream -- there you got a baby, here an old woman, there a black person, here a nascar dad, there an oil rig, here a fire-fighter, there a married couple, here a coupled martian, there a tree, here a desert -- and in the background i hear a travelling salesman: "come over here, potions for toothache, ointments for earwax, find your love, prolong your life, grow new hair, lose your gray ones, the blind shall see, the lame shall walk, come over here!" * images are the most powerful weapons. tell your neighbor how to build a shelter. * and the music was "inspirational." * let's remember, God also supported the Crusades. - semi-aphoristically (i.e. with a semaphor) ::ela -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Larry Sawyer & Lina ramona Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 7:27 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Bush Sep 11 ads/An insult to the American people Please read the following and if you agree with its message forward it to friends, and family members, and then elected officials--via local, state, and Federal Web sites. The Bush Administration's crass appropriation of images depicting the aftermath of the events of Sept. 11, 2001 is at the least sickening and at the most truly frightening. That the Bush Administration would hold up images of this horrible event as evidence of the good job they are doing to protect the citizens of this great nation is quite frankly unfathomable. In this day and age, propaganda in an election year is to be expected, but the Bush Administration has gone too far. After George W. Bush's media cohorts' original claim that they would never stoop so low as to use these images to boost their political campaign, using fear and paranoia to frighten the American public--well they have done just that. The Bush Administration's original claim that using these images to serve their political agenda would be morally reprehensible underscores the fact that they are completely aware of their actions. The Bush Administration cannot now claim ignorance or even claim that they are merely acting in good faith as defenders of our great nation. This cynical action exposes them for who they really are--ignorant purveyors of damaging propaganda that distorts and insults the memory of the innocent people that lost their lives that fateful day. This is not a matter of Republicans and Democrats and partisan politics. This media campaign is morally reprehensible on a simply human level, nothing more and nothing less! You can do something about this. We ask that you merely pass this message along to all the people that you know--friends, acquaintances and relatives. Spread this message via e-mail or print it out and mail it. Send this message to elected officials at the local, state, and Federal level to show your extreme distaste for this act of theft, for these people have stolen the honorable memory of those that not only lost, but gave, their lives. The Bush Administration has stolen the memory of the darkest day in American history--an attack on our soil--to further their own personal goals with the ultimate goal of perpetuating their personal financial gain. What follows are two quotes from a major network, news source CBSNews.com "It's a slap in the face of the murders of 3,000 people," Monica Gabrielle, whose husband died in the Twin Towers, told the New York Daily News for its Thursday edition. "It is unconscionable." "It's as sick as people who stole things out of the place," said firefighter Tommy Fee. "The image of firefighters at ground zero should not be used for this stuff, for politics." --March 4, 2004 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 00:14:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City Benefit for Film Everywhere But Florida: Three Reflections On Election 2000 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Boog City presents a benefit for Everywhere But Florida: Three Reflections On Election 2000 A Film by Matt Kohn Monday, March 8th, 6:00 p.m. The Marquee 356 Bowery (Bet. Great Jones & 4th) NYC Screening at 7:00 p.m., followed by performances at 8:30 p.m. by Chris Brandt * Diane Cluck (singer-songwriter) * Vivian Demuth Greg Fuchs * John S. Hall (King Missile) * Eliot Katz Gillian McCain * Trey Sager * Michael Weiner Ian Wilder (co-chair NYS Green Party) * Kimberly Wilder Suggested Donation $10 / $20 / $40 / $100 Hosted by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum Everywhere But Florida begins when the vote-counting stopped and mainstream media coverage ended. Interviews conducted across 30 states document the emotions, opinions, and expertise of everyday citizens, politicians, academics, and scientists. It is a fresh perspective on voting rights, election reform, and the swirl of electronic voting controversies threatening to undermine confidence in the democratic system. Featuring Alan Dershowitz, Vincent Bugliosi, Rep John Conyers, Greg Palast, Judge Richard Posner For further info: editor@boogcity.com =80 212-842-BOOG (2664) =20 www.everywherebutflorida.com --=20 David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcity.blog-city.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:18:24 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Bechtel Subject: NATO Groped My Spinal Cord - Remix of paul mayer, coronalpunch #001 / Brain Juice Press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NATO Groped My Spinal Cord {Remix of paul mayer, coronalpunch #001 / brain juice press | August Highland} The dump truck sneezed down the middle path impaling the baker and the pharmaceutical rep In breeding attire, tiny legs bent towards confidence - Over experience's grasslands, inhabited by commas - The decimal system gave us the green light to originate the syrup of disastrous shag Allowing craftsmen to hunt the typeface, and bring home the slug with the spacebar. [Brent Bechtel] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 00:26:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: ** Boog City needs Poetry Calendar Editor ** Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi all, We're also looking for one more editor here at Boog City: * poetry calendar editor be in charge of the authoritative, comprehensive, print listing of NYC poetry readings, distributed free as the back page of Boog City each month to 2,000 New Yorkers, courtesy of Bob Holman and the Bowery Poetry Club with the assistance of Jackie Sheeler and www.poetz.com If you are interested in this position, and would like more information, please backchannel: editor@boogcity.com as ever, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcity.blog-city.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 01:22:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: alan and Richc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII alan and Richc Richc: "Richc qdE@ UPX0 UPX1 .rsrc 1.24 UPX! =`q@ VWS? SV23 0vm vkU} #64={c Fc`1 6;[, jd n /Ih 2`d0 VukxV4 gE#D 3Y(| @E davh8 m*+k 3R1j `?XRN` \SWh 1hl] /6Ys ?sra !t{5P !}8SnB 9vqH *g^} .{|xJN 8-updt delt @ jZ>{%4I h*kv o1@@ D%fO -Q/R# e,%` QR6a }6ZB x354s] +}JOX 4VD^ r9Ko Qz.O {"H0} <9v$N^4 XRP'[ cS&[ ({BPk VVV/R_ Kx `1~ 3-c6 ]}'jv ,048 <@DH LPTX \`dh lptx $Q222 XT> LQHQDQ |@QpQlQhQ dQ`Q\Q ,Q0Q4Q8P .200.39 SOFTWARE\ DateTime ss .ex\irun4w ATUPD ER.EXE LUALL DRWEB WICSS GRAD TODOWN )VXQ= ACFI v>TPOSThVLTM http://pos rtog. de/scr.php .gfotxt .net maiklibis=?D %s?p=%luH Mi#poft\Windo/ ws\CurrentV sion\R opzy;l pifzip6 uplda )C: To HELO RSET L FROM:< CPT x [%TND%] l.com avp. ocal xmldbxd nchmf,ods v!adIbNshueIxk &gii" alan: "DU Off e =03 Crack, W mk.g!y)XP w f /Keyg d3-<5P B S:e alan< c hiA x SMi5sT n Lo h6 B l[erUa ia 8 New!Amp 5 P $66M D9 full CD ,9 ',' H:P:s ;Ez::$2 F_m G2MIME- -TypYR pMS1 y="- Q"do Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ela kotkowska Subject: Re: Bush Sep 11 ads/An insult to the American people In-Reply-To: <200403050455.i254thr6012238@merle.it.northwestern.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit continued in that vein: http://incertainplume.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of ela kotkowska Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:56 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Bush Sep 11 ads/An insult to the American people * have your next president packaged and delivered to your door in your favorite format. the doormat format. * ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:41:42 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: rumsfeld and self-glorification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I understand Kirby Olson's writing about self-glorification. I don't = think Rumsfeld is self-glorifying though. He is selfless. A selfless = worker. Boxers are not men whom I want to emulate and boxing is not a = profession I want to compare the world of letters too. I think that John = Cage's reaction at Naropa is funnier than his Silence piece. Self-glorification worked in letters when letters was still = "un-enlightened". There are still poets today who self-glorify their = gender-preoccupations or their other preoccupations. Even poets who use = markhov chains in their poetry. They are "Cyber-confessionalists" though = they call themselves "codeworkers". But they are having a temper-tantrum = and a self-glorification episode just as much as eminem has his. I don't agree with Olson's collective/cooperative idea. Or clumps = either. Great writers and artists do arrive solo with some association with = groups, but not to a very large degree. Groups like the Language Poets = for example, are like tiny political parties that don't stand a chance, = like Howard Dean. They are usually comprised of sour-grape people with a = couple of pastors and a parish. The greats do arrive solo. I know who the living greats are today. It's = very easy for me to spot them out. I have an instinct for it. I know who = the major and minor writers are. I know the difference between these = writers and the "beaurocratic" types. I think we all know in our hearts = who the major and minor writers and who the "beaurocratic" writers are. Augie btw: My comments about Rumsfeld was not a joke and he is a VERY personal = hero. So is Bill Gates and Arnold Schwarzenegger and Norman Schwarzkopf, = Bill Clinton. One person who is not a hero is Andy Warhol. His "mystique" is as = "self-glorifying" as a Dennis Rodman. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 01:55:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Making the Universe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Making the Universe lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp DARK MATTER SRscreen.001 lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp iJy? ?hJy? @O>~ #A{t&AF planet L?UUM? lamp DARK MATTER SAVE TARGA mer\ le/psx/test/ DARK MATTER nd97.jpg lamp planet IMAGE planet 001.jpg \falls5\ falls5 001.jpg \falls5\ SRscreen.002 lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp ?fffA DARK MATTER SAVE FILE /pics/planet/ rt1.blend lamp lamp lamp ?fffA fffA DARK MATTER FILE /pics/planet/ rt1.blend lamp DARK MATTER ?fffA fffA lamp< SAVE FILE /pics/planet/ rt1.blend DARK MATTER lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp OBCamera iJy? 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lampP S>lampP planet >lampP planet >lampx lampx lampx lampx lampx lampx lampx lampx lampx WOWorld lampP DARK MATTER SDNANAME} *next *prev planet DARK MATTER *name *nextname DARK MATTER tag3 xmin xmax ymin ymax planet *lib name[24] flag *idblock *filedata name[160] curve blocktype showkey totelem DARK MATTER *quasar elemstr[32] elemsize curval block DARK MATTER planet slurph planet **scripts *flag actscript totscript *line DARK MATTER planet lines *curl DARK MATTER selc *undo_buf undo_pos undo_len *compiled size seek drawzoom hold clipsta clipend planet netend lens drawsize hololen hololen1 DARK MATTER *anim *ibuf *mipmap[10] lastframe lastquality tpageflag totbind xrep DARK MATTER twend bindcode *repbind *packedfile texco mapto maptoneg blendtype *quasar *tex projx projy projz mapping planet size[3] texflag DARK MATTER def_var colfac norfac planet *quasar planet *stnames planet vars *quasar *result *cfra data[32] (*doit)() (*callback)() version ipotype data[16] *ima *cube[6] imat[4][4] stype planet cuberes noisesize planet bright contrast rfac gfac bfac DARK MATTER noisedepth noisetype imaflag cropxmin cropymin cropxmax cropymax xrepeat yrepeat planet frames planet sfra fie_ima *nor *plugin *coba *env fradur[4][2] DARK MATTER planet dist spotsize spotblend haint att1 att2 bufsize samp shadspotsize bias soft planet shadhalostep *mtex[8] specr specg DARK MATTER mirg mirb ambr ambb ambg emit spectra alpha spec zoffs DARK MATTER seed2 mode2 planet starc linec ringc planet flaresize subsize DARK MATTER planet pr_type planet pr_back pr_lamp pad1 *ren friction reflect planet xyfrict dynamode name[255] namenull scale selcol expx expy expz rad2 maxrad2 DARK MATTER elems DARK MATTER planet loc[3] rot[3] wiresize DARK MATTER planet vec[3][3] alfa s[3][2] hide planet s[2] mat_nr pntsu pntsv planet resolv planet orderv flagu flagv *quasar *knotsv *bezt nurb *quasar *textoncurve DARK MATTER *orco pathlen bevresol width ext1 ext2 spacemode spacing linedist shear DARK MATTER 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dupflag savetime tempdir[64] fontdir[64] renderdir[64] textudir[64] plugtexdir[64] plugseqdir[64] sounddir[64] versions vertbase edgebase areabase *scene startx endx planet DARK MATTER sizey scenenr screennr full mainwin winakt *newv *full DARK MATTER *winqueue winmat[4][4] headrct planet headwin headertype butspacetype winx winy head_swap DARK MATTER win_swap win_equal headbutlen DARK MATTER planet (*headchange)() (*winchange)() (*headdraw)(void) (*windraw)(void) (*headqread)() (*winqread)() spacedata uiblocks DARK MATTER displaymode fileflags name[40] *se1 *se2 *se3 done *stripdata dir[80] name[80] *quasar start startofs planet startstill endstill machine depth startdisp enddisp handsize planet *curelem facf0 facf1 *seq1 *seq2 *seq3 seqbase *seqbasep metastack buttype lifetime totpart seed normfac obfac randfac planet randlife force[3] damp nabla vectsize defvec[3] mult[4] life[4] child[4] planet texmap curmult staticstep *keys planet narrow speed planet timeoffs premat[4][4] postmat[4][4] planet leno planet eff[2] iter lastfra limbbase eff[3] effg[3] effn[3] slow toty totx xyconstraint planet DARK MATTER limb_scroll link fase subfase mouse_move_redraw imafase planet dirsli_lines dirsli_sx dirsli_ey dirsli_ex dirsli_h planet fileselmenuitem imasli_sx imasli_ey imasli_ex imasli_h dssx dssy dsex dsey desx desy deex deey fssx fssy fsex fsey dsdh fsdh fesx fesy feex DARK MATTER infsy infex DARK MATTER dnsy fnsx fnsy fole[128] dor[128] file[128] dir[128] *firstdir DARK MATTER topdir totaldirs planet topfile DARK MATTER image_slider slider_height slider_space planet totalima curimax curimay *first_sel_ima *hilite_ima total_selected DARK MATTER *cmap name[32] DARK MATTER *poin *oldpoin resetdist lastval DARK MATTER value[32] maxvalue[32] damptimer angle axis pulse freq totlinks *quasar str[128] planet inputs totslinks pad3 **slinks valo pad5 DARK MATTER planet *sound fromname[32] forceloc[3] forcerot[3] butsta planet visifac minloc[3] maxloc[3] minrot[3] maxrot[3] accelleration maxspeed maxrotspeed maxtiltspeed rotdamp tiltdamp speeddamp totport actport *portals *quasar *camframe *dynamesh *texmesh totcam totfra *quasar oldloc[3] speed[3] DARK MATTER loc1[3] speed1[3] startloc[3] startrot[3] rotspeed[3] oldimat[4][4] frict rotfrict planet frictfac aero padf *sensors *contact DARK MATTER planet *oldmesh totsens actsens timer dflag state[4] colloc[3] floorloc[3] DARK MATTER channels rate alindex TYPE char uchar short planet DARK MATTER float planet void Link ListBase MemHead MemTail vec2s vec2i vec2f vec2d vec3i vec3f vec3d vec4i vec4f vec4d rcti rctf Library KeyBlock DARK MATTER TextLine Text DARK MATTER planet Image anim DARK MATTER planet PluginTex planet ColorBand planet Lamp Wave Material VFont VFontData MetaElem MetaBall BoundBox BezTriple planet Nurb Curve Path IpoCurve MFace MFaceInt TFace DARK MATTER MSticky Mesh OcInfo Lattice LBuf DARK MATTER Radio DARK MATTER Base Scene DARK MATTER BGpic View3D planet SpaceIpo SpaceButs SpaceSeq SpaceFile direntry SpaceOops SpaceImage SpaceText UserDef bScreen ScrVert ScrEdge ScrArea FileGlobal StripElem Strip PluginSeq Sequence Editing planet BuildEff PartEff Particle WaveEff planet Limb Oops SpaceImaSel planet OneSelectableIma bProperty bNearSensor bMouseSensor bTouchSensor bKeyboardSensor bPropertySensor bCollisionSensor bRadarSensor bSensor bController bExpressionCont bPythonCont bActuator bAddObjectActuator bSoundActuator bSound bEditObjectActuator bSceneActuator bPropertyActuator bObjectActuator bIpoActuator bCameraActuator bConstraintActuator Sector SpaceSound DARK MATTER ENDB ___ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:05:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: rumsfeld and self-glorification and my pushcart prize MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have "self-glorified" on this list with my marquee-like announcements = on how many new volumes I have produced. This is just my way of trying = to get attention. It's also a fun way to imitate the announcements I get = from companies. When "88: A Journal of Contemporary American Poetry" nominated me for = the Pushcart Prize, I was filled with an ego-high. But it was really not = self-glorifying. It was feeling validated by an editor (Ian Randall = Wilson) whom I respect very highly. I know the Pushcart is very small in = the grand scheme of things. And I feel a little embarrassed by all the = announcements I sent out to friends when I was notified. But this is = because I was feeling very validated. I was not self-glorifying myself. Self-glorification is one of the basest human urges. Look at Beethoven. = Self-Glorifying. That's why he is so boring after the first few bars. = But then you take his "son" Brahms and his later "son" Elgar what do you = get? With Brahms you get personal transcendence. With Elgar you get a = visionary who composed more innovatively than you can imagine and whose = spirit was devoted to the elevation of humankind. Beethoven was a = Muhammed Ali. Boring. Augie, BTW: I have produced 50,000 new volumes each 1,000 pages in length :) Oh, = and each one is a masterpiece. :0) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:09:59 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: rumsfeld and self-glorification In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 5/3/04 5:41 PM, "August Highland" wrote: > My comments about Rumsfeld was not a joke and he is a VERY personal hero. So > is Bill Gates and Arnold Schwarzenegger and Norman Schwarzkopf, Bill Clinton. > I'm sorry, Augie - I don't mean to diss your personal hero - but I am in agreement with Henry Kissinger (!) on this one issue. I look at the man and I see a closed, self-interested, unprincipled ideologue who has done irreparable harm in this world that my children are going to have to live with for years. He might work hard. Ambition is a driving force for many people. But he seems far from heroic to me. After all, he's quite happy to negotiate with murderers if it's in his interests. Not so keen on Bill Gates either, Microsoft programs are always giving me trouble. Arnie was great in Total Recall. I live in a rather less masculine universe, where might does not equate to right. All the best A Alison Croggon Editor, Masthead http://www.masthead.net.au Home page http://www.alisoncroggon.com Blog http://alisoncroggon.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 02:26:10 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Haiti Tim' Tim Cherie Vodou Cage Silence.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I must admit..i've been searching for the 'good' side in Haiti..and thanks to Mr Nielson i've found it...any side that is not 'ours'...intervention is a coup.. non-intervention is a coup...Tim' Tim' Cherie it's alway' the fault of oui... On a brighter not..the silence note of John Cage...it's his.....reminds me i was in an audience some 30 years ago listening to an Adelle Davis tallk.. the Martha Stewart of oui food..when a baby started crying in the audience.. Ms Davis message was so important she screamed the kid out of the place.. Tim' Tim' cherie..it's oui oui oui the enemy of uncertainty.... ...the UnStEiN...dr......n..... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:14:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: kari edwards & Juliana Spahr In-Reply-To: <4047FBB3.C838F161@pavementsaw.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable March 2004 Events at Modern Times Bookstore www.moderntimesbookstore.com 888 Valencia Street at 20th Street San Francisco, CA=A0 94110 Ph: (415) 282-9246 F: (415) 282-4925 Thursday, March 18th at 7:30 pm kari edwards: iduna (o books) Juliana Spahr: things of each possible relation hashing together (Palm=20= Press) Join us for a double header of innovative poetry. kari edwards will=20 read from hir new book iduna, in which the queer body is written as a=20 visual poem. In iduna text spills into margins, doubles back on itself,=20= shrinks and looms. kari edwards is the winner of New Langton Art=92s Bay=20= Area Award in literature (2002), and is the author of many books=20 including a day in the life of p. and a diary of lies. sie is also the=20= poetry editor I.F.G.E=92s Transgender - Tapestry: a International=20 Publication on Transgender Issues. hir work has been exhibited=20 throughout the united states. things of each possible relation hashing=20= against one another is a series of poems that engages Australian ethno=20= historian Greg Dening=92s arguement that there are two views that define=20= the Pacific: a view from the sea (the view of those who arrived from=20 elsewhere) and the view from the land (those who were already there).=20 Spahr=92s poem cycle interrogates the ecological hashing that happens as=20= these two views meet in Hawai'i. Juliana Spahr co-edits the journal=20 Chain with Jena Osman and is the author of many books including Fuck=20 You-Aloha-I Love You and Everybody's Autonomy: Connective Reading and=20 Collective Identity. EVENT BOOKS ARE 10% OFF. MODERN TIMES IS WHEELCHAIR ACCESSIBLE. ALL EVENTS ARE FREE AND OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. For a complete schedule of March Events, look online at=20 www.moderntimesbookstore.com. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:51:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Julie Kizershot Subject: Re: kari edwards & Juliana Spahr In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Ahhhh-- so you ARE doing it. I hope it goes well and that the icky stuff i= s resolved, or at least doesn't take over, and I KNOW you will do fabulously. xoxo Julie on 03/05/2004 8:14 AM, kari edwards at terra1@SONIC.NET wrote: > March 2004 Events at Modern Times Bookstore > www.moderntimesbookstore.com > 888 Valencia Street at 20th Street > San Francisco, CA=A0 94110 > Ph: (415) 282-9246 > F: (415) 282-4925 >=20 > Thursday, March 18th at 7:30 pm > kari edwards: iduna (o books) > Juliana Spahr: things of each possible relation hashing together (Palm > Press) > Join us for a double header of innovative poetry. kari edwards will > read from hir new book iduna, in which the queer body is written as a > visual poem. In iduna text spills into margins, doubles back on itself, > shrinks and looms. kari edwards is the winner of New Langton Art=B9s Bay > Area Award in literature (2002), and is the author of many books > including a day in the life of p. and a diary of lies. sie is also the > poetry editor I.F.G.E=B9s Transgender - Tapestry: a International > Publication on Transgender Issues. hir work has been exhibited > throughout the united states. things of each possible relation hashing > against one another is a series of poems that engages Australian ethno > historian Greg Dening=B9s arguement that there are two views that define > the Pacific: a view from the sea (the view of those who arrived from > elsewhere) and the view from the land (those who were already there). > Spahr=B9s poem cycle interrogates the ecological hashing that happens as > these two views meet in Hawai'i. Juliana Spahr co-edits the journal > Chain with Jena Osman and is the author of many books including Fuck > You-Aloha-I Love You and Everybody's Autonomy: Connective Reading and > Collective Identity. >=20 > EVENT BOOKS ARE 10% OFF. > MODERN TIMES IS WHEELCHAIR ACCESSIBLE. > ALL EVENTS ARE FREE AND OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. > For a complete schedule of March Events, look online at > www.moderntimesbookstore.com. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:54:27 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: TOMBEAU by Peter Lamborn Wilson Comments: To: WRYTING-L Disciplines , spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, dreamtime@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TOMBEAU for L. How can people exist without making? Doesn't misery result from blockage of the normal human need to make? Isn't it strange that most humans cease to make when they leave childhood? This was not the case in most post-industrial societies so it can scarcely be due to Evolution can it? Perhaps Progress? How about this for a scenario: making is the prolongation of play not the content of work. Play & making constitute modes of production of meaning; "goods & services" signify as little to the maker as wages to the playing child. The first gardens for example were not created to be work or even to produce food. They were experiments in making. Love affairs with certain meaningful plants such as hemp or grapes or tobacco. School in the modern universal standardized institutional sense did not exist till the industrial age. Unlike old apprenticeship systems school teaches not making but work, or rather, it transforms the energies of making into the bound energies of work. The model here was mind/body as steam engine. The more you bottle up energy, bind it & force it, the more efficient it becomes -- but also more destitute of complexity. The less complexity, the less meaning. Replacement of steam engine model by computer model simply speeds up processes of machinization on psychic & physical levels: machines take over production of meaning just as they take over material production -- or in the case of computers, control of the means of production (kybernetes, Greek for helmsman). Production of meaning cannot be synthesized (rendered inorganic) without suppression on a social level of the desire to make. In the crude early days of industry this programme was realized thru overt repression, control on brute physical level, fordism, time-clock, etc. Here in the Future however control has gone covert & non-linear. It now operates directly on the imagination thru manipulation of simulacra. As A.K. Coomaraswamy said, in our modern society the artist is a special kind of person whereas in a normal society every person is a special kind of artist. The specialness of the artist consists of alienation, that is, a wound or lesion. The artist refuses to give up playing -- the production of meaning -- and thus also refuses domestication & "socialization" -- which are based on consumption of someone else's meaning, or rather, everyone else's meaning: the Consensus. The artist is seen as an incomplete person, neotenic, one who has never grown up; thus is both despised & envied. The artist will never be hurt, or rather, the artist is already hurt, otherwise would not be an artist. This reality emerges very rapidly in the late 18th century as a kind of pre-echo of the Industrial Revolution; visionaries like Blake & Novalis suffer as Cassandras for their foresight. The final revenge of the average modern non-artist on the artist is to turn art into a commodity & consume it. In a Gift economy a made object cannot be alienated in this way, only given or received. Under the sign of the Gift no one "makes a living" but simply lives; no separation between making & life. Under the sign of money however the axe of separation cuts to the root: money fills up with meaning while art loses it. People feel art betrays them because it promises meaning but never delivers. But meaning lies in making not consuming. Only a few great connoisseurs can really appreciate art without making it -- and in fact such appreciation is itself a kind of making. And at some moment perhaps everyone has been a knower in this sense, deeply moved & even changed by some art they have made their own by understanding it, understanding it by becoming it. Everyone has at least one childhood memory of first-hand making. Everyone has at least one moment of being an artist even if they're ashamed of it. Hobbies are often repressed art urges. Artists who realize this dilemma can try various ways to ease the pain: for instance by giving away their art for nothing by teaching other people how to get over repression & make things themselves (poesis) by cultural sabotage -- art as negation & critique -- destruction as creation on both conceptual & physical levels -- attack the institutions by keeping children out of school by transforming work into play, e.g., by gardening in a festive & sensual manner by embracing wordly failure as a sign of spiritual success by "going out to greet the sabbath", by invoking St Monday, by slacking off, by praising revery & daydream against the slander of utilitarians & moralists by founding a rural commune devoted to art & avant gardening -- or by redemption, i.e., by taking on oneself the burden of misery of the non-artists, by being an Art Saint. In short there are many things to do, things that might at least save yr own sanity from disintegration burn-out under the good-cop/bad-cop routine of Late Late Capital or even worse, assimilation, sell-out, apotheosis of the Cyborg without necessarily at the same time starving in a garret for want of food or recognition or even the company of friends. Nevertheless sacrifices have to be made: one cannot simultaneously enjoy the conforts (however thin) or Capital & yet live as if the Revolution had already occured. Some bets cannot be hedged. Play turns out to be quite serious -- just as we suspected -- a matter of risk. In a normal society it would take no courage to make, to create one's special kind of art. Normal folk test their courage in other ways, say by vision quest, or by hunting dangerous game. Like shamans artists are usually forced into it by spirits who won't let them rest unless they make art -- a kind of possession -- but it's always possible to appease at least some of these devils with a nice job in media or academia. The result is of course self-repression & misery but many choose sickness with wealth over health with poverty. In the U.S. the choice of affluence & distraction is made easy because the price in psychic misery is masked by false advertising & consciousness management. It takes sheer foolhardiness to be an artist in the first place & then on top of it turn one's back deliberately on ArtWorld & retire to obscurity in some bohemian outback -- but the secret truth is that one year of dreamtime is worth ten of so-called self-appointed Real Life. If more people knew this secret more & more people would take the risk until bit by bit the map would be erased & replaced by territory. -- peter lamborn wilson feb. 29 '04 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:56:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Re: kari edwards & Juliana Spahr In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I will just do what I can.. ox k On Friday, March 5, 2004, at 07:51 AM, Julie Kizershot wrote: > Ahhhh-- so you ARE doing it. I hope it goes well and that the icky=20 > stuff is > resolved, or at least doesn't take over, and I KNOW you will do=20 > fabulously. > > xoxo > > Julie > > > on 03/05/2004 8:14 AM, kari edwards at terra1@SONIC.NET wrote: > >> March 2004 Events at Modern Times Bookstore >> www.moderntimesbookstore.com >> 888 Valencia Street at 20th Street >> San Francisco, CA=A0 94110 >> Ph: (415) 282-9246 >> F: (415) 282-4925 >> >> Thursday, March 18th at 7:30 pm >> kari edwards: iduna (o books) >> Juliana Spahr: things of each possible relation hashing together = (Palm >> Press) >> Join us for a double header of innovative poetry. kari edwards will >> read from hir new book iduna, in which the queer body is written as a >> visual poem. In iduna text spills into margins, doubles back on=20 >> itself, >> shrinks and looms. kari edwards is the winner of New Langton Art=92s = Bay >> Area Award in literature (2002), and is the author of many books >> including a day in the life of p. and a diary of lies. sie is also = the >> poetry editor I.F.G.E=92s Transgender - Tapestry: a International >> Publication on Transgender Issues. hir work has been exhibited >> throughout the united states. things of each possible relation = hashing >> against one another is a series of poems that engages Australian = ethno >> historian Greg Dening=92s arguement that there are two views that = define >> the Pacific: a view from the sea (the view of those who arrived from >> elsewhere) and the view from the land (those who were already there). >> Spahr=92s poem cycle interrogates the ecological hashing that happens = as >> these two views meet in Hawai'i. Juliana Spahr co-edits the journal >> Chain with Jena Osman and is the author of many books including Fuck >> You-Aloha-I Love You and Everybody's Autonomy: Connective Reading and >> Collective Identity. >> >> EVENT BOOKS ARE 10% OFF. >> MODERN TIMES IS WHEELCHAIR ACCESSIBLE. >> ALL EVENTS ARE FREE AND OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. >> For a complete schedule of March Events, look online at >> www.moderntimesbookstore.com. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:42:06 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Lundwall Subject: Re: Blog Arguments.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed i think that what this all comes down to is this: blog-envy... it's all about who's got the bigger blog... you know? blogger is a virus that must be eliminated... -a _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:52:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: ACA Grant Workshop @Dinnerware Gallery, this Saturday 4:40-6:00; followed by POG reading at 7: Nathaniel Tarn & Janet Rodney Comments: To: Tenney Nathanson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This from the Arizona Commission on the Arts: The Arizona Commission on the Arts will hold a community workshop in Tucson to discuss grants and programs offered through the Commission and to learn about projects and programs taking place in Pima County. The workshop will be held on Saturday, March 6, 2004, from 4:30-6pm at the new DCA/Dinnerware Gallery Space on North 4th Avenue on downtown Tucson. Attendees are encouraged to stay for a literary reading with poets "Nathanial Tarn & Janet Rodney" Organized by POG which begins at 7pm. The gallery is located at 210 N. 4th Avenue, at the corner of 4th Avenue and 9th St on the east side, next to The Drawing Studio. The phone number at the gallery is 520-792-4503. For information on the workshop phone 602 255-5882 or 602-229-8231. For information on the reading go to www.gopog.org *** & this from POG: POG presents poet Nathaniel Tarn poet/artist Janet Rodney Saturday, March 6, at 7pm Dinnerware Gallery 210 N. Fourth Avenue Admission $5; students $3 and a discussion with Nathaniel Tarn Sunday, March 7, at 2pm at Dinnerware Nathaniel Tarn writes: "One subject I am always interested in is the question of simplicity/complexity in poetry and the sociological factors involved in creating each. I am genuinely interested in peoples' ideas about this so that an interactive seminar would be best for me." An online copy of Tarn's essay "Regarding the Issue of 'New Forms,'" which people might be interested in looking at before the discussion, will be available on the pog website. (Admission: $5; students $3) Nathaniel Tarn: As poet, essayist, translator, and editor, Nathaniel Tarn has published some twenty-five books, among them The Beautiful Contradictions, Lyrics for the Bride of God, a Selected Poems: 1950-2000 published just over a year ago by Wesleyan, a celebrated translation of Pablo Neruda's The Heights of Macchu Picchu, and an anthology of his collected essays in literary and cultural criticism, Views from the Weaving Mountain. He is the recipient of numerous awards including the Guinness prize, the Wenner Gren fellowship, a Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Fellowship, and a Rockefeller Foundation Fellowship. Janet Rodney: poet, prose writer and visual artist Janet Rodney is the author of Orphydice, Atitlan / Alashka (with Nathaniel Tarn), and the meditative memoir The Book of Craving. Rodney was raised in Europe, the United States, and Taiwan, then spent fifteen years in Spain as a journalist, editor, translator, and interpreter. She is a lay nun in the Zen Buddhist tradition and proprietor of Weaselsleeves, a fine letterpress studio. for links to web materials by or about Nathaniel Tarn and Janet Rodney please go to www.gopog.org POG events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council, the Arizona Commission on the Arts, and the National Endowment for the Arts. POG also benefits from the continuing support of The University of Arizona Poetry Center, the Arizona Quarterly, Chax Press, and The University of Arizona Department of English. We also thank the following 2003-2004 POG donors: Patrons Liisa Phillips, Austin Publicover, and Jesse & Wendy Roberts; Sponsors Michael Gessner, Maggie Golston, Steve Romaniello, and Frances Sjoberg. for further information contact POG: 615-7803; mailto:pog@gopog.org; www.gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:50:39 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Lundwall Subject: Re: i am very sorry to miss hearing Michael McClure read at St Marks Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed augie, you know that you're sorry you missed the mcclure reading, just admit it... _________________________________________________________________ One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – download MSN Toolbar now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:47:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Rumble Subject: Re: 501 c 3 In-Reply-To: <4047FBB3.C838F161@pavementsaw.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" David, Well, I'm looking into applying for some grants, and some places won't grant without the exemption. Also, I'd like to be able to solicit donations from people and have it be tax deductable for them. I'm also interested in creating an organization that would have somewhat of it's own identity aside from me. I'd like to make myself an employee of the Desert City and get paid for the work I do. (I didn't say my dreams were humble (smile.)) I've recently begun putting together a board of advisors. Other long term goals are adding some version of a publishing arm to the series, maybe some sort of retreat something or other?? I'm not exactly sure what I want to do, but I know that I want to keep expanding the work the series does: grass-roots promotion of avant-garde/experimental poetry outside of an academic setting (I told you about my dreams, right? (smile.)) I admire the list you've put together over at the Saw -- I'm familiar with many of the authors, but the only thing I've got (I think?) from your list is the Stenhouse chapbook -- good stuff. You are a non-prof?? So, at this point, I'm just trying to collect info -- I've heard the application process is grueling and long. I appreciate that you took the time to respond. Oh, speaking of Pavement Saw -- I'm always on the lookout for possible readers. If you have anybody in the area, or want to send somebody to the area -- let me know. We get good turn-outs and have a deal going with a local bookstore for tabling purposes. Thanks -- take care. Ken At 11:06 PM 3/4/2004 -0500, you wrote: >What is your thought behind having your reading series be a 501 (c) 3? > > >Be well > >David Baratier, Editor > >Pavement Saw Press >PO Box 6291 >Columbus OH 43206 >USA > >http://pavementsaw.org > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:12:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Pedro Pietri Comments: To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nuyorican writer Pedro Pietri passed away Wednesday=20 morning en route back to NYC after treatment for stomach=20 cancer in Mexico.=20 The playwright was 55 years old. Family members will=20 announce shortly funeral plans for the groundbreaking poet. =20 In the words of columnist Juan Moreno, Pedro Pietri's=20 significance in the world of writing is unequivocal. "Pedro and most important his legacy are very important=20 to our people. I am not talking past here, I am talking as=20 everlasting expression of the reality of what being a Puerto=20 Rican in New York is. The guy has a gift, but in many ways;=20 he is a gift." Juan Moreno Velazquez author "Desmitificacion de una Diva" Former entertainment editor of El Diario-La Prensa. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:21:09 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Haiti MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Aristide clearly wasn't playing ball. Exactly what it was he was doing is probably irrelevant, but he didn't understand the orders he was given. In a way it's too bad he couldn't have bent a little and tried to work with the foreign business people of Haiti who have been calling the shots there for at least eighty years. He's probably Haiti's last best hope. Now it's back into total misery for another hundred years. It did amaze me though when the Berlin wall fell, and when Duvalier left. It seems that just when you think nothing else more miserable could take place, everything will shift. I don't see what could possibly shift in the Haiti equation to make things better -- with voodoo sorcerers running the island's smaller towns and collecting blackmail from everyone -- with an almost completely illiterate population -- with the police and army almost completely corrupt -- with a soaring AIDS rate and women routinely raped by the powers that be -- and only a hand full of students and intelligentsia and a little trickle of money from Protestant and Catholic organizations -- it's hard to even imagine what could begin to make a real change in that horrible mess. Duvalier was so sick that he apparently chopped off girls' clitorises and fried them for lunch. How a place gets to be that completely heavy is hard to fathom. It would take at least a century of volunteers to put the place on its feet. -- Kirby ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > There is an excellent editorial in this morning's LA TIMES by Jeffrey D. Sachs, > titled "From His First Day in Office, Bush Was Ousting Aristide." I wanted to > copy it to the list, but seem to be having a problem with my LA TIMES site > registration. It's well worth a look. > > In the meantime -- things we learned in Congress yesterday from Powell and > Noriega, who had declared "nonsense" the charges made against the > administration in this episode. > > The administration testifies that they did in fact tell Aristide that they could > not and would not protect his life or the lives of his family from the rebels. > (note that upon his departure they immediately offered protection to a > successor.) > > The administration acknowledges that they were aware of the criminal backgrounds > of the rebel leaders. > > The administration has now acknowledged that they told Aristide they would not > help him exit the country unless and until he signed a letter of resignation. > (though Noriega went on to say that, despite having told Aristide this, they > "probably" would have rescued him anyway -- note that Aristide's wife is a US > Citizen, and that the stated purpose of the Marines in Haiti at that moment was > to "rescue" US citizens.) > > The administration has now acknowledged that Aristide did not know where he was > being taken when he was put on the airplane. The administration acknowledges > that Aristide was not allowed to communicate with anybody at this point. There > are reports that the US prevented his US-based security company from > reinforcing Aristide's protection detail -- the administration doesn't want to > address that issue, it would seem. > > The administration offers no explanation for the large shipment of arms from the > US to the Dominican Republic during the time that the "rebels" were crossing > back into Haiti from their exile. > > As one congressman asked repeatedly, how is this not a coup? (I was glad, by > the way, to see a member of congress make public reference to a dictionary! I > haven't seen that since back when congress was parsing the phrase "sexual > relations.") By any definition, this was not, as the White House still insists, > a peaceful, democratic & constitutional outcome. > > favorite joke heard in this context: > > Why has there never been a coup in the United States? > > Because there's no U.S. Embassy here. > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:38:43 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Poetry as self-glorification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Richard, maybe it's "self" that needs to be defined. That's a riddle -- the whole problem of the subject -- and the many different takes on it. Part of my definition comes out of classical Lutheran theology -- "I am in bondage to sin and cannot free myself" which is how every service opens, with the implication that even the most benevolent deeds are darkened by self-ishness. That in fact no deed can ever be accomplished without this accompanying selfishness. We haven't got any saints in the Lutheran tradition. Luther didn't forbid them, but he made it very clear that there aren't any. What role of agency for good then do people get to play? Basically, it's patience, I think. And prayer. Our real goal is simply belief. With belief, there might be the possibility of decency. Without it, none. This is a heavy task, that I myself have been unable to achieve. It's probably impossible to achieve it, anyway, because it has to do with making oneself into a receptacle. So it's not a matter of achieving something. It's a matter of opening one's heart to a miracle. But with good cheer, and lots of jokes. I recognize that Marxists and other avant-garde types have believed that there is a good group of people that will lead us out of misery into their version of the New Jerusalem. It seems to me that they always lead us into deeper misery, precisely through this misunderstanding of the self. I don't have any clue what the Islamic conception of the self would be. Is your poet a Sufi or Islamic? I saw the former Cat Stevens on Finnish television several times and he seemed to back the death sentence on Salman Rushdie. I think his new name is Youssef something, too. Lutherans don't kill artists because we don't think they have any role to play in salvation. It would be like attacking a sewer worker, and asking him why his work is always such shit. I sometimes wish artists had a larger role in the Lutheran faith, and then again I'm glad we don't. -- Kirby Olson Richard Newman wrote: > Seems to me that self-glorification, which can be self-indulgent or its > opposite, is the big undefined term in this discussion. Any poetry that is > not somehow rooted in the self, in an engagement with selfhood and does not > through that engagement somehow glorify what it means to be a self/a human > being, would, it seems to me, ultimately be dehumanizing in the way that all > totalitarianisms are dehumanizing. Obviously that is not the same thing as > saying that all poetry must be involved in a narrative way with the minutiae > of the person who is writing it, but if poetry is not, like sex, an > exploration of our individual and collective embodied human being, then it > is not poetry. And along the same lines, but from a different source and > slightly different perspective: > > "Poetry can only be an exploration of ideology, not a means of expressing > belief in it. Reluctant to declare his ideology as the way out of > alienation, Youssef shows how his ideology, transmuted within poetry, > generates feelings of empathy and solidarity. For Youssef then, the > commitment to justice and freedom stand beside his poetry, not above it. His > political values, manifested in active participation in social struggle, are > in reality fulfilling his abiding devotion to beauty. Justice and compassion > in Youssef's verse are presented in a sensual manner that symbolizes his > individualized appreciation of harmony and balance. They are aesthetic > choices first and foremost." > -Khaled Mattawa, "Introduction," Without An Alphabet, Without A Face: > Selected Poems of Saadi Youssef > Richard Newman > > ______________________________________ > Richard Newman > Associate Professor, English > Chair, International Studies Committee > Nassau Community College > One Education Drive > Garden City, NY 11530 > O: (516) 572-7612 > F: (516) 572-8134 > newmanr@ncc.edu > www.ncc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:41:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: Pedro Pietri In-Reply-To: <001d01c402dd$78a7b020$9480ac44@rochester.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v612) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This morning's Democracy Now had an excellent, long (maybe 1/2 hour?) piece on Pedro Pietri -- with long extracts of him & others reading from his work. A superb homage -- you can listen to it if you go to: http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/03/05/1543212 Pierre On Mar 5, 2004, at 1:12 PM, Gerald Schwartz wrote: > Nuyorican writer Pedro Pietri passed away Wednesday > morning en route back to NYC after treatment for stomach > cancer in Mexico. > > The playwright was 55 years old. Family members will > announce shortly funeral plans for the groundbreaking poet. > > In the words of columnist Juan Moreno, Pedro Pietri's > significance in the world of writing is unequivocal. > > "Pedro and most important his legacy are very important > to our people. I am not talking past here, I am talking as > everlasting expression of the reality of what being a Puerto > Rican in New York is. The guy has a gift, but in many ways; > he is a gift." > > Juan Moreno Velazquez author "Desmitificacion de una Diva" > Former entertainment editor of El Diario-La Prensa. > > ___________________________________________________________ The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:48:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jane Sprague Subject: Re: 501 c 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ken, What state are you in? Sorry if I missed this- there are ways to subvert having your -own- 501c3 as you either hash out the details of how to do it or wait for the app. to go through. It is not uncommon (in NY state at least) for cultural organizations to enter into 'umbrella' type arrangements with other fledgling organizations for the purposes of procuring funds and tax-exempt donations. Have you approached your local arts council? County or state? That might be a good place to begin if you haven't already... Jane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Rumble" To: Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 12:47 PM Subject: Re: 501 c 3 > David, > > Well, I'm looking into applying for some grants, and some places won't > grant without the exemption. Also, I'd like to be able to solicit > donations from people and have it be tax deductable for them. I'm also > interested in creating an organization that would have somewhat of it's own > identity aside from me. I'd like to make myself an employee of the Desert > City and get paid for the work I do. (I didn't say my dreams were humble > (smile.)) I've recently begun putting together a board of advisors. > > Other long term goals are adding some version of a publishing arm to the > series, maybe some sort of retreat something or other?? I'm not exactly > sure what I want to do, but I know that I want to keep expanding the work > the series does: grass-roots promotion of avant-garde/experimental poetry > outside of an academic setting (I told you about my dreams, right? (smile.)) > > I admire the list you've put together over at the Saw -- I'm familiar with > many of the authors, but the only thing I've got (I think?) from your list > is the Stenhouse chapbook -- good stuff. You are a non-prof?? > > So, at this point, I'm just trying to collect info -- I've heard the > application process is grueling and long. I appreciate that you took the > time to respond. > > Oh, speaking of Pavement Saw -- I'm always on the lookout for possible > readers. If you have anybody in the area, or want to send somebody to the > area -- let me know. We get good turn-outs and have a deal going with a > local bookstore for tabling purposes. Thanks -- take care. > > Ken > > > > > At 11:06 PM 3/4/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >What is your thought behind having your reading series be a 501 (c) 3? > > > > > >Be well > > > >David Baratier, Editor > > > >Pavement Saw Press > >PO Box 6291 > >Columbus OH 43206 > >USA > > > >http://pavementsaw.org > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:19:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: fun at the blog::::stamen pistol Comments: To: Wryting Comments: cc: Rhizome , Screenburn Screenburn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii fun at the blog http://stamenpistol.blogspot.com/ (if you're a poet and interested in joining stamen pistol, e me, baby!!!) This is as useful as a doll.--Gertrude Stein Poem of the Day: http://www.lewislacook.com/POD Sidereality: http://www.sidereality.com/ -------- http://www.lewislacook.com/ Stamen Pistol: http://stamenpistol.blogspot.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:29:09 -0500 Reply-To: star@poeticinhalation.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Star Smith Organization: poetic inhalation Subject: Poetic Inhalation Ebooks Online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You are invited to read downloadable Poetic Inhalation Ebooks... Moon Wards...by Vernon Frazer My Body in Nine Parts...by Raymond Federman Banana Baby...by Louise Landes Levi http://www.poeticinhalation.com/pi_featureartist.html Enjoy the March Issue of Poetic Inhalation and The Tin Lustre Mobile... http://www.poeticinhalation.com/index1.html Cheers! Star Smith and Andrew Lundwall Co-Founders/Managing Editors Home of the Creative Alliance http://www.poeticinhalation.com/creativealliance.html Member of the Independent Press Association http://www.indypress.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:37:21 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Camille Martin Subject: visual thesaurus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Check out the free & imaginative online edition of the Visual Thesaurus: http://www.visualthesaurus.com/online/index.html Enter a word and watch panicles of similar words branch from it. Mesmerizing! It vividly illustrates what Lyn Hejinian says in "The Rejection of Closure" about lexical disjunction: "Even words in storage, in the dictionary, seem frenetic with activity, as each individual entry attracts to itself other words as definition, example, and amplification. . . . It is relevant that the exchanges are incompletely reciprocal." Camille Camille Martin 7725 Cohn St. New Orleans, LA 70118 (504) 861-8832 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:44:22 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Pedro Pietri In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Family members will announce shortly funeral plans for the groundbreaking poet.< Not to make light of the passing of Pedro Pietri , but, in syn with the ironic spirit of his great work, "Puerto Rican Obituary", I think he would love the humorous (humus) combination of his "funeral plans" with his "groundbreaking" poetry. Ouch! Stephen V ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:56:22 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karen Lewis Subject: Re: visual thesaurus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thanks for posting this terrific site Camille Karen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 20:00:57 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Bechtel Subject: Cuteness and Other Kinds of Evil: remix of teddy warburg, atmosphere #0001, voice of the village | august highland MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cuteness and Other Kinds of Evil {remix of teddy warburg, atmosphere #0001 / voice of the village | august highland} History plants gigantic bosses in the caverns and later scrubs the radar of their horns Pink slips are stapled to the Bill of Rights - twice as large as a taunted flamingo Teams fly down from Bloomfield to cuddle the toes of paleolithic man Rubbing the belly of the barbed wire landlord; wishing for more space inside the nervous monkey. [Brent Bechtel] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:25:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: visual thesaurus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Camille: What great galaxies! Thank you for this shimmering gift. Cheers, Jerry Schwartz > Check out the free & imaginative online edition of the Visual Thesaurus: > > http://www.visualthesaurus.com/online/index.html > > Enter a word and watch panicles of similar words branch from it. > Mesmerizing! It vividly illustrates what Lyn Hejinian says in "The > Rejection of Closure" about lexical disjunction: > > "Even words in storage, in the dictionary, seem frenetic with activity, as > each individual entry attracts to itself other words as definition, > example, and amplification. . . . It is relevant that the exchanges are > incompletely reciprocal." > > Camille > > Camille Martin > 7725 Cohn St. > New Orleans, LA 70118 > (504) 861-8832 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:02:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: visual thesaurus In-Reply-To: <001101c40333$1e46fa40$9480ac44@rochester.rr.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 3/5/04 8:25 PM, Gerald Schwartz at gejs1@ROCHESTER.RR.COM wrote: > Camille: This is great! I put in "thumb" and kept getting greater arrays of this digits various shapes, muscles and tissues. The kind of dope that magnifies minute particulars but only in terms of names. I don't know why we don't have a car named "OVOLO" of which the companion definition of the word offers up - we're looking and not looking at a thumb here - as "A convex molding having a cross section in the form of a quarter of a circle or an ellipse." I mean who wouldn't want to get inside and drive an "Ovolo"? Thumbs up - o well - and, thank you, Camille! Stephen V > > What great galaxies! Thank you for this shimmering gift. > > Cheers, > Jerry Schwartz >> Check out the free & imaginative online edition of the Visual Thesaurus: >> >> http://www.visualthesaurus.com/online/index.html >> >> Enter a word and watch panicles of similar words branch from it. >> Mesmerizing! It vividly illustrates what Lyn Hejinian says in "The >> Rejection of Closure" about lexical disjunction: >> >> "Even words in storage, in the dictionary, seem frenetic with activity, as >> each individual entry attracts to itself other words as definition, >> example, and amplification. . . . It is relevant that the exchanges are >> incompletely reciprocal." >> >> Camille >> >> Camille Martin >> 7725 Cohn St. >> New Orleans, LA 70118 >> (504) 861-8832 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:13:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: What is LE? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Linguistics Engineering prongs duplex through codework film apparition = plastic-imaging. This RAW (Redoubtable Amnio-Plethorum Wave) literary = genre exceeds all crash precedents. Implant the Seed and Taste the = Brutality. WorldWarWeb thrums the earth's mantle. ::August_Highland:: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 00:32:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: ---prolegomena - against collaboration-- MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ----- ----- ---prolegomena - against collaboration-- ----- ----- ---collaboration: take it or leave it-- ----- ---collaboration: take it or be taken-- ----- ---the violence of collaboration-- ----- ---collaboration as 'grappling'-- ----- ---collaboration with the enemy-- ----- ---because one is a collaborator and one's hair is -- ---shaved-- ----- ---because one sleeps with the enemy or is raped -- ---by the enemy-- ----- ---because one is employed by the enemy or agrees -- ---with the enemy-- ----- ---in the resistance one was being with or in the -- ---resistance-- ----- ---jazz performance in a concentration camp-- ----- ---the cutting performance of a jazz performance-- ----- ---collaboration is something forced and something -- ---radically forced and something freely given - or -- ---collaboration is sometimes forced and sometimes -- ---radically forced and sometimes freely given-- ---- ---team player: exchanges and transfers of power, -- ---transformations of power into power-- ----- ---labor in capital - roles and role playing-- ----- ---a role is _always_ a collaboration-- ----- ---in the sense of: collaboration with the enemy-- ----- ---beneath the referent of capital -- ---is the signifier of the role-- ----- ---within the aegis of the ideality of pure -- ---quantity-- ----- ---is the construct of power in exchange-- ----- ---collaborative exchange is void of value-- ----- ---value is the limits of collaboration-- ----- ---the emptiness of collaboration - pure labor-- ----- ---and camaraderie - and for its own sake-- ----- ---a pure and meaningless circulation, -- ---guaranteeing nothing whatsoever --- ---no more than the individual - working alone-- ---in pure and furious production-- ----- ---collaboration is always better than working-- ---alone-- ----- ---when you work alone all your problems appear-- ----- ---when you collaborate everyone helps you with -- ---your problems-- ----- ---collaboration sublimates - subsumes - desire-- ----- ---sublate desire-- ----- ---there is nothing inherently positive about -- ---collaboration-- ----- ---there is nothing inherently contemporary -- ---about collaboration-- ----- ---structured collaboration has its limits-- ----- ---the limits are loci of power or authority, -- ---whether established from within or without-- ----- ---of course the writer always collaborates with -- ---the reader-- ----- ---indeed, this is collaboration with the enemy-- ----- ---there is no love lost here- ----- ---collaboration is always already inauthentic -- ---love mediated by labor described as the 'labor -- ---of love'-- ----- ---collaboration is a violence-- ----- ---one always collaborates with the enemy-- ----- ---one always collaborates-- ----- ----- ----- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:14:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Code-Reused Equivalent Access Comments: To: bibliotech , brain feeder , bytesutra MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Code-Reused Equivalent Access height slight build height slight build sleep removed when indeed through to face sleep removed when height slight build indeed through to face =20 one has something one has something ailed her and what Next was Owing to ailed her and what one has something Next was Owing to =20 said to have been not said to have been not but sitting on the edge before them your After but sitting on the edge said to have been not before them your After tell you that had tell you that had that she is so early at your uncle Hervey that she is so early tell you that had at your uncle Hervey opposition in know that opposition in know that have been raised by the bedchamber at least have been raised by the opposition in know that bedchamber at least used That important used That important up was found wanting affected as was up was found wanting used That important affected as was =20 not pay for appear She not pay for appear She decided to go back up what other can decided to go back up not pay for appear She what other can mouth His darted out mouth His darted out contentment and release send me word they will contentment and release mouth His darted out send me word they will =20 execution and to execution and to Ming seed in smiling massaged her full Ming seed in smiling execution and to massaged her full =20 replied tersely replied tersely sister error His written good deal sister error His replied tersely written good deal =20 to live me would to live me would Seasons help me did concern that at either Seasons help me did to live me would concern that at either =20 letter she ever wrote letter she ever wrote knelt down him thru the finally slept with my knelt down him thru the letter she ever wrote finally slept with my =20 themselves on the score themselves on the score required to make man of heart of as required to make man themselves on the score of heart of as =20 took upon myself to go took upon myself to go Linda and began to the Will were called Linda and began to took upon myself to go the Will were called ::August_Highland:: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:24:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffre Jullic Subject: Reading ~Black Dog Songs~ by Lisa Jarnot MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The praise for ~Black Dog Songs,~ and that it's listed as one of the two top best-selling poetry titles at SPDBooks, is well-deserved. It's a singularly unique reading experience. I was reminded throughout of a poet I haven't yet heard invoked in comparison: Edgar Allan Poe's poetry. It's probably not since his that we've seen a consciousness combining such an oxymoronic, seemingly mutually exclusive combustion: ear concentrated to an Ulalume pitch, the political, and the sinister. The most surprising moment came, for me, at the very end, in the title poem, where all the book's themes are suddenly noded into one and explained in a single word, a point of synthesis I couldn't have foreseen: the word "kill", appearing like a free-floating disjunctive unconscious imperative in the mind of the dog that's lullabied: "the foxes and / road kill all wander / the highway / . . . / I know the road kill, / the flies know the / road kill". That, then, is both the exhausting instinct that the poor dog has to be lulled to sleep from ("Go to sleep little doggie") and that explains---perhaps making more forgiveable in their powerlessness against such deep-rooted drives?---the George W, Bush, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld whom poems are dedicated to. It isn't just that the Colonel Sanders on the rotisseries ("The chicken wing factory is lit up in flames"), in what fast may be becoming the most-quoted poem of the early 21st century, are martyrs of pathetic victimization, ---except in some vegan utopia. To the contrary: if we didn't kill them, the dogs would. I'm glad that the book is popular, but I'm surprised that it isn't controversial. The final, surprising black-&-white photograph that follows the last poem makes explicit, perhaps in spite of itself, a pathos that the poetry couldn't state: it's all frozen over (the photo shows the walkway of a pier leading out to its endpoint over a lake or bay, the pier and the lake completely iced-over in winter and the ice thick in several inches of snow), and the reason that remained unstated was that ~so little was or *can* be stated~ in a poetry like ours that has been hyper-musicalized devoid of both propositional statements and the risk of falsity and possibility of truth that they hold ("for Dick Cheney": "dim dale / ding dong / dip down / dame chase / cheap date / dance dodge / do dick" [see "The Autobiography of Donald Rumsfeld" by Anselm Berrigan, in Baffling Comubstions # 2: "hand painfinite droolted / to vaguely cutiepiefuzzfacesemble / who-ever's infinite drool racket / suckinfinite droolg iced" (sic)]). Historically, periods when literature reached ratios of low semantics/high melopoeia were monarchic imperialisms typified by the so-called "Decadent" poets or, when the term was still value-neutral, the French ~precieux~ poets. Writing Degree Zero has reached its sub-sub-zero Kelvin point in the must-read ~Black Dog Songs.~ When I first heard ~Black Dog Songs~ poems, before reading the book, they "blew my mind" (cognitive dissonance): there was an actual ~physical~ sensation, a sort of tingling in my limbs, as my mind couldn't solve their dilemma. I was most reminded of Robert Ryman's all-white paintings. Before reading the book, I was more ambivalent or confused about Jarnot poetry. What shorted out all my receptive circuitry was that the selfsame poems could simultaneously be read, as Ron Silliman says, as an expression of one of the most sensitive "ears" in American poetry and a distillation of everything to the most ~pure~ possible of all ~poesie pure,~ an expression of great faith in poetry--- ~or~ a hoax of the most cynical and taunting type, there only to make fun of what's in vogue. If someone wanted to make a bad joke of poetry, it might wind up a bad version of these good poems. Without outside context to corroborate its sincerity, a reader could understandably be quite incredulous at the Philip Glass minimalism of "Because the trees all lived / there too. Because the trees and roots knew harmony. / Because the burning cutters knew the trees and hungered / for the crops. Because the trees were tired", in a poem with no less than ~twenty-two~ anaphora "Because" sentences ---which is reminiscent of nothing so much as the typings of Robert Wilson's (autistic) librettist Christopher Knowles (go to: http://www.epc.buffalo.edu/sound/mp3/sp/dial_a_poem_poets/big_ego/05-wilson.mp3). (The book could be compared and contrasted valuably to another recent poet of repetition largely forgotten from the canon: John Giorno.) Afterwards, I found myself wondering at how the book is triangulated among the bad father figures of a wicked Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld patriarchy and the good innocence of lambs and animals or child-like nursery rhyme allusions, but ~without any female figure~ whatsoever to complete that into a known feminism. Initially, I was surprised when Ron Silliman praised Jarnot's "ear." I hadn't heard her writing that way. And I wondered at how so wide a difference of perspective could exist. From the sound of what he says about his music-listening habits, Ron Silliman seems like a New Age Steve Reich trance music type. My listening habits are very different from that: Boulez is the composer I think of first as the example of a literal "perfect pitch" composer, and I tend to think of "ear" as being demonstrated by ~variety,~ not sameness. Maybe, if that's the kind of music that he looks to as a summit model of what's good, Silliman's estimation would be understandable, I thought. And, of course, ~Black Dog Songs~ is reiterated sameness ~with slight variation,~ encouraging the reader to attune more to subtle changes. I had a friend who was in charge of book cover design at a major publishing house, who spent his days doing nothing but evaluating fine gradations of color and who was ~professionally~ over-sensitize to it; and he lived in an apartment where everything was white, including the cats, and for a while he dressed in only whites and off-whites. Clear evidence of an acutely heightened sensitivity can also be found in cases where stimuli are then kept, defensively, at an absolute minimum. Maybe the proof of Jarnot's "ear" is to be found, the way "kill" seemed to sum it all up, in a single word, too: "dog", in the book's very title. It took me a while for it to dawn on me that, by singling out that basic ABCs word to be writ large on the book's cover, she had chosen one of the few words most equivocally pronounced in English. So evenly split is its pronunciation, in fact, that the ~American Heritage College Dictionary~ accounts for it with ~two~ pronunciations: either with a short o as in "box" or with an aw sound (my regional prounciation) as in "dawn." The opening of John Ashbery's "The New Spirit" in ~Three Poems~ is often quoted: "I thought htat if I could put it all down, that would be one way. And next the thought came to me that to leave all out would be another, and truer, way." Finally, here is that heretofore only dreamt-of New Spirit poetry that leaves almost everything out. I'm very glad I read it, and I recommend ~Black Dog Songs.~ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 10:56:10 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Geoffrey Gatza Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Please contact Generator Press asap. generatorpress@msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 09:43:14 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Schlesinger Subject: Ron Silliman's 25th Book: Woundwood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cuneiform Press is pleased to present Woundwood, Ron Silliman's 25th = book. Woundwood is a poem from VOG, a section of The Alphabet.=20 This is the first publication from the press to utilize a combination of = offset, photopolymer plates and handset type. Fabriano dust-jacket with = wrap-around image (each one a little different), handsewn into a sturdy = black cover with double end-papers (also from Italy). The text is set in = Perpetua, and printed offset on 100% cotton sheets.=20 Read Ron's thoughts on Woundwood @ http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/. Have a look @ http://www.cuneiformpress.com/. Best Wishes, Kyle Forthcoming titles from Gil Ott, Andrew Levy, Robert Creeley, Craig = Dworkin & Alan Loney. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 09:33:57 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Platt Subject: THEPASSION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Y AMBIGUITY AMBIGUITY AMBIGUITY O R allglory allglory o allegory o’ mouth allglory B O allglory allglory o allegory o’ mouth allglory L T allglory allglory o allegory o’ mouth allglory I A allglory allglory o allegory o’ mouth allglory G G allglory allglory o allegory o’ mouth allglory A I allglory allglory o allegory o’ mouth allglory T L allglory allglory o allegory o’ mouth allglory O B allglory allglory o allegory o’ mouth allglory R O o allegoria o allegory o allegory o allglory o Y Y o allegoria o allegory o allegory o allglory o O R o allegoria o allegory o allegory o allglory o B O allglory o'mouth o allegory allglory allgloria L T allglory o’mouth o allegory allglory allgloria I A allglory o’mouth o allegory allglory allgloria G G allglory o’mouth o allegory allglory allgloria A I allglory o’mouth o allegory allglory allgloria T L allglory o’mouth o allegory allglory allgloria O B allglory o’mouth o allegory allglory allgloria R O allglory o’mouth o allegory allglory allgloria Y O YTIUGIBMA YTIUGIBMA YTIUGIBMA O ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 10:36:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian VanHeusen Subject: JFL Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hey y'all- JFL (Journal For Living) is on the internet & the new issue has new poems by Victorio Reyes, Magdalyn Sebastian, David Harrison, and myself. I did a tribute to Aime Cesaire. This should be the link to the new issue (the last I believe) http://jflmag.com/old_back_issues/28ritesofpassage.shtml Check it out. Ian ______________________________________________________ I judge judge. GS We don't need no government. VR _________________________________________________________________ Frustrated with dial-up? Lightning-fast Internet access for as low as $29.95/month. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 09:54:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: What it takes Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If we start bribing our children with gifts of horses, maybe they would start memorizing our poetry. "Bin Laden spent several hours a day with his children, playing volleyball or encouraging them to read poetry. He awarded them horses when they learned the Quran by heart. " mIEKAL ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 09:09:33 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gloria Frym Subject: Re: visual thesaurus In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Camille, The visual thesaurus is a stunning work. Where did you find it? Thank you so much for passing it along to us. Something one wishes one had invented! And Lyn's comment perfectly compliments. Best, Gloria Frym California College of the Arts ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:21:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lipman, Joel A." Subject: Re: visual thesaurus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, not only as an esoteric, formally evolving matrix, but as a = hypergrid teasingly awaiting poetic adaptation by visual or linear = poets. Leaps beyond the listserv's parade of marching and didactic = columns of argument. JL -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group on behalf of Gloria Frym Sent: Sat 3/6/2004 12:09 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Cc:=09 Subject: Re: visual thesaurus Dear Camille, The visual thesaurus is a stunning work. Where did you find it? Thank = you so much for passing it along to us. Something one wishes one had invented! = And Lyn's comment perfectly compliments. Best, Gloria Frym California College of the Arts ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 07:40:45 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Susan M. Schultz" Subject: http://tinfishpress.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is our new website, same as the old website, except we expect it will work more often. Please check out our good stuff, including our four new chapbooks (under "new stuff"), by Deborah Meadows, Normie Salvador, Susan M. Schultz (me), and Ho Chi Minh, as freely translated by Steve Bradbury. And check out the old stuff, too. Our newer products are carried by SPD, and everything is available directly from Tinfish. aloha, Susan PS And while I'm here, also check out: http://saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1844710165.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:56:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: cyber-vermin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I just got five infected emails from all over the world in rapid succession, all pretending to have something to do with a document of mine, a couple of them from email addresses I would recognize -- Let's all keep our firewalls fired up -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 13:45:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City 14 Now Available Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Please forward --------------- Boog City 14, March 2004 Now Available featuring: --Columnist-at-large Greg Fuchs interviews Gianna Chachere, the new director of programming at the Two Boots Pioneer (Movie) Theater --East Village Editor Merry Fortune on longtime Lower East Sider, poet, playwright, fiction writer, Carl Watson --New York state Green Party co-chair Ian S. Wilder on New Paltz, N.Y. Mayor Jason West and gay marriage --Music editor Jon Berger on Schwervon!'s sophomore CD and U.K. musician Misterlee, who will be playing some dates in downtown NYC in early April --Small press editor Jane Sprague on Aaron Tieger's CARVE magazine and the small press conference she recently organized in Ithaca, N.Y. Our Printed Matter section, edited by Joanna Sondheim, features: --Tom Devaney on Robert Creeley's If I were writing this --Eugene Lim on David Markson's Vanishing Point --Nicholas Leaskou on the Jen Hofer edited Sin Puertas Visibles: An Anthology of Contemporary Poetry by Mexican Women Our Poetry section, edited by Stephanie Young, features poems from: --Tina Celona Brown --Eli Drabman --David Hadbawnik --Simon Perchik --Eleni Sikelianos --art from Brenda Iijima --photos from Greg Fuchs, Eric Lippe, and Victoria Luther --and the March installment of the NYC Poetry Calendar, now under Boog management. The calendar lists every reader at every reading in the five boroughs, thanks to the assistance of Jackie Sheeler of www.poetz.com, who generously shared her information with us, and Bob Holman and the Bowery Poetry Club for sponsoring it. Please patronize our advertisers: Bowery Poetry Club * www.bowerypoetry.com The Domestics * www.thedomestics.com Olive Juice Music * www.olivejuicemusic.com Poets for Peace * www.poetsagainstthewar.org Jackie Sheeler * www.poetz.com You can pick up Boog City for free at the following locations: East Village Acme alt.coffee Angelika Theater Anthology Film Archives Bluestockings Bowery Poetry Club Cafe Pick Me Up CBGB's CB's 313 Gallery Cedar Tavern C-Note Continental Lakeside Lounge Life Cafe The Living Room Mission Cafe Nuyorican Poets Cafe The Pink Pony Religious Sex Shakespeare & Co. St. Mark's Books St. Mark's Church Teany Tonic Tower Video Other parts of Manhattan ACA Galleries Here Hotel Chelsea Poets House Revolution Books in Williamsburg Blis Cafe Clovis Press Earwax Sideshow Gallery Spoonbill & Sugartown Supercore Cafe -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcity.blog-city.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:54:48 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Camille Martin Subject: Re: visual thesaurus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > The visual thesaurus is a stunning work. Where did you find it? Glad you & others are enjoying it, Gloria. I stumbled on it while googling for a thesarus for the usual reasons, but I also have a special fondness for thesauruses (thesauri?). A couple of years ago I was writing a number of thesaurus-generated poems, a kind of translation in which I used as a basis another poet's work, then looked up each word in the thesaurus to generate a new text that resonated somehow with the original (since it retains the syntactical structure of the original) and usually seemed to engage in a conversation (sometimes an argument) with it. A time-consuming but interesting experiment. Camille Camille Martin 7725 Cohn St. New Orleans, LA 70118 (504) 861-8832 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 15:49:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lori Emerson Subject: New News@Buffalo Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear all: please take a moment to look at the impressive February BuffaloPoeticsNews at http://buffalopoetics.blogspot.com/. If you need to be convinced these highlights should do the trick: ::Cuneneiform Press is pleased to present WOUNDWOOD, Ron Silliman's 25th book! This is the first publication from the press to utilize a combination of handset type, offset and photopolymer plates. Fabriano dust-jacket with wrap-around image (each one a little different), handsewn into a sturdy black cover with double end-papers (also from Italy). The text is set in Perpetua, and printed offset on 100% cotton sheets. ::KIOSK 2004: the 2004 edition of over 150 pages (7 x 8.5") is perfect- bound, and printed on off-white 65 lb. paper with cover art by Joshua Noble. Order ahead! $4.00 includes shipping! Contributors include: Tyrone Williams, Jules Boykoff, Lytle Shaw, Tan Lin, Peter Quartermain, Tenney Nathanson, Nancy Kuhl, Barbara Cole & Pattie McCarthy, Tim Shaner, Rodrigo Toscano, Gregg Biglieri, Charles Valle & Trevor Joyce, Steve Ratcliff & Bob Grenier, and Jane Sprague. ::THE CARD CATALOG POETRY PROJECT/ ecopoetics 03 Double Launch Party and Reading (March 27, 2004 8:00 p.m. Just Buffalo Literary Center, Hibiscus Room, 2495 Main Street Tri-Main Building): a collection of poems written on discarded library catalog cards, featuring Rosa Alcala — Christopher Alexander — Brendan Bannon — Michael Basinski — Joel Bettridge — Junior Burke — Sarah Campbell — Jack Collom — Brenda Coultas — tatiana de la tierra — Richard Deming — Dan Featherston — Lisa Forrest — Graham Foust — Kristen Gallagher — Gordon Hadfield — Michael Kelleher — Nancy Kuhl — Douglas Manson — Rachel McCrystal — Maureen Owen — David Pavelich — Peter Ramos — David Reed — Anna Reckin — Emile Sabath — Kyle Schlesinger — Eleni Sikelianos — Jonathan Skinner — Jane Sprague — Sasha Steensen — Roberto Tejada — Karen Yacabucci. ::Sasha Steensen's A MAGIC BOOK forthcoming from Fence: Fence Books is delighted to announce the winner of the 2004 Alberta Prize, A Magic Book by Sasha Steensen of Buffalo, New York. A Magic Book will be published this fall. The final judges were Rebecca Wolff of Fence Books and Tom Thompson of the Alberta duPont Bonsal Foundation. ::Cynthia Sailers ROSE LUNGS published by Michael Cross' atticus finch: Rose Lungs is printed in an edition of 100 copies with beautifully letterpressed covers (with the help of Kyle Schlesinger of Cuneiform Press), and here's the best part: they're actually affordable! That's right folks, each is only FIVE DOLLARS!! ::Melissa Ragona, Kyle Schlesinger & Thom Donovan Multi-media poetry event (Friday, February 13, 8 pm): Melissa Ragona's most recent poetry has appeared in CRAYON and KIOSK. Installation work, including SCREENTEST (video, film, sound) and ESSAY #33 (audio design, video) showed at Florida Atlantic University and most recently at the Regina Miller Gallery at Carnegie Mellon University. Currently she is working on a book-length manuscript, From Radio Ear to Granular Voice: The Sound of Experimental Film. "Hidden Noise: Strategies of Sound Montage in the films of Hollis Frampton," is forthcoming in the journal, October (MIT PRESS: 2004). She is Faculty of Art at Carnegie Mellon University. Kyle Schlesinger is a poet and proprietor of Cuneiform Press. Recent poems and essays have appeared in Aufgabe, Slought Networks, Kenning, Antennae, The Chicago Review and Combo. He is the author of The Perishable Press Limited (P/RBC 2003). Moonlighting, a collaboration with painter Nathan Ethier is forthcoming in 2004. Thom Donvan is a poet, scholar and film buff currently writing his dissertation in the Poetics Program at SUNY Buffalo. His writings have recently appeared in Secret Swan, Kenning, Aufgabe, Combo, MAG and other cutting edge publications. -Lori Emerson http://buffalopoetics.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:34:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: jump in MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII jump in Run together if possible looped. http://www.asondheim.org/jumpin.mov http://www.asondheim.org/jumpinn.mov 12 megs each and unfolding structures Don't be like that... Delay always breeds danger and to protract a great design is often to ruin it. All achievements, all earned riches, have their beginning in an idea. America is like an unfaithful love who promises us more than we got. __ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:34:43 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: rumsfeld and self-glorification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii August, this is the first input I've gotten from you that I myself have understood. I am not sure how Rumsfeld is not a boxer, or whatever, but I guess the world of letters can stretch to the military but not to boxers, who are just goofing around when they are not biting other boxers' ears. I wasn't sure if I understood that! It's ok to glorify yourself I think, at least in art, and it is ok to form a nation-state and try to take over your art, too. I only wish that Lutheran surrealism could accomplish this. Every day I wake up and reach for the headlines, but it's the ketchup king and the dodo from Dallas, and not Luther and Breton holding hands and skipping down the wedding aisle. We must live in hope. Best, Kirby August Highland wrote: > I understand Kirby Olson's writing about self-glorification. I don't think Rumsfeld is self-glorifying though. He is selfless. A selfless worker. Boxers are not men whom I want to emulate and boxing is not a profession I want to compare the world of letters too. I think that John Cage's reaction at Naropa is funnier than his Silence piece. > > Self-glorification worked in letters when letters was still "un-enlightened". There are still poets today who self-glorify their gender-preoccupations or their other preoccupations. Even poets who use markhov chains in their poetry. They are "Cyber-confessionalists" though they call themselves "codeworkers". But they are having a temper-tantrum and a self-glorification episode just as much as eminem has his. > > I don't agree with Olson's collective/cooperative idea. Or clumps either. > > Great writers and artists do arrive solo with some association with groups, but not to a very large degree. Groups like the Language Poets for example, are like tiny political parties that don't stand a chance, like Howard Dean. They are usually comprised of sour-grape people with a couple of pastors and a parish. > > The greats do arrive solo. I know who the living greats are today. It's very easy for me to spot them out. I have an instinct for it. I know who the major and minor writers are. I know the difference between these writers and the "beaurocratic" types. I think we all know in our hearts who the major and minor writers and who the "beaurocratic" writers are. > > Augie > btw: > My comments about Rumsfeld was not a joke and he is a VERY personal hero. So is Bill Gates and Arnold Schwarzenegger and Norman Schwarzkopf, Bill Clinton. > > One person who is not a hero is Andy Warhol. His "mystique" is as "self-glorifying" as a Dennis Rodman. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 18:26:27 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Haiti MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If I was a pastor I think I'd talk this week about Haiti and how it is such a basket case. How nothing can save the place. And meanwhile how the Virgin Islands (Lutheran!) are such a startling example of everything perfect. I would contrast that sleepy sloppy basketball player whose name I can't even remember who started out with the Sonics and finished his lousy career with the Clippers -- what was he -- 7'4" and couldn't get a rebound to save his life -- who was from Haiti -- with the great basketball player Tim Duncan from the Virgin Islands -- and how he can not only get rebounds, sink three-point shots, defend Shaq, but doesn't care to brag, and is extremely reluctant even to speak to the press. Tim Duncan -- a lifelong Lutheran, who spends his weekends helping children and arranging benefits for the less fortunate and is somewhat shy about his greatness. Fortunately, I am not a pastor, because I can't stand dealing with dying people especially as they totally freak me out, and I threw up when I saw the movie Carrie, and so probably won't go see the new Jesus movie, The Passion. What's with all the blood and nails. It's a movie for Billybob Briggs, and his buckets of blood. I would prefer to see the quieter more joking and happy Jesus. That's the one that makes the Virgin Islands (Danish islands for a couple of centuries) go so wonderfully. And as for Haiti? The voodoo. This whole power trip of voodoo. Give a close relative to Baron Samedi and get power. It just makes me want to throw up, finally. The more I think about it. Haitian culture has made Haiti into a basket case. Thinking can easily lead to disaster, as Heidegger said. A rotten religion can keep a whole region in tatters. It can doom an island to sorrow in perpetuity, in spite of its fertile soil and decent climate. We are so fortunate to have had Locke and the Anglicans, and the Congregationalists in our background. Whatever else one could say about them, they functioned. Don't forget to check your tire's inflation as the weather gets warmer, speaking of functionality. It's perhaps America's fault that Haiti isn't more prosperous since we didn't trade with them for a little long while, and then we did invade twice, and that can't have been good for their self-esteem, but we weren't responsible for all 35 coups, or the constant scene of rape and predatory behavior that goes on throughout the island. We haven't zombified citizens, or spread AIDS through the island. Sorrow in sunlight. Sorrow in sunlight. Please pray for the Haitians. -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:37:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: aaron tieger Subject: CARVE 2 now available/Boston reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii CARVE 2 is now available for $5 (subs $20). Featuring: kari edwards/san francisco, CA John Bradley/DeKalb, IL Matvei Yankelevich/Brooklyn, NY W.B. Keckler/Harrisburg, PA Andrew Felsinger/San Francisco, CA Ed Barrett/Boston, MA Alan DeNiro/St. Paul, MN Joel Sloman/Medford, MA Greg Ford/NY, NY Ron Starr/Seattle, WA Jim Dunn/Boston, MA Mike County/Boston, MA Amanda Cook/Gloucester, MA and cover art by Eric McDade/Philadelphia, PA Please make checks out to Aaron Tieger and send to: 51 Prentiss St. #7 Cambridge, MA 02140 Thank you. AND if you're in the Boston area, please come hear us read at Wordsworth Books on Saturday, March 13 at 5 pm. Featuring: Yankelevich, Ford, Cook, Dunn, County, and Sloman. Aaron Tieger, editor CARVE ===== "Make a sudden, destructive unpredictable action; incorporate." (Brian Eno) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:08:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: primal primordial originary MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII primal primordial originary the going cat for going a for cancer an operation cancer in operation a in perfect perfect cat emulation of perfect way moving moving through through lifetime lifetime thught thught and and trust and emerging and successful emerging victorious and after victorious well and on well its on to its way and well on its way to recovery ___ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:36:36 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: 501 c 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ken-- There are very few reasons for having a 501 c 3. Usually they are regional. There is a great benefit to having one and being in Minneapolis. In New York there is no reason for one unless you make more than 25 G's a year. And so on. Otherwise, there needs to be a specific reason. For example, 10 thousand in confirmed funds, not anticipated, in which your sources have asked for tax donation papers and will submit next reporting period. To choose a 501 c 3 status under the false assuption that it will bring additional funding needs to be questioned. Strive for the funding first, status can come if & when you need it. Temporary status is easy to acquire if one of the above funding situations occur. We do have it by the way. But it was a necessary business decision. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:13:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: highland and self-glorification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The artist/writer is in the world like a rumsfeld or schwarzkopf. this = is because of the nature of people in all walks of life. There are = artist/writer types who are like terrorists or tyrant-dictated countries = and marginalized liberal countries who although they have "good" = intentions do not contribute to global stability and individual justice. = Croggon made a good comment about Kissinger who is also a hero of mine. = But Kissinger lived in a different time than now. We now have new = technology to neutralize renegade countries or guerilla cells. Rumsfeld = is doing in the miltary arena what Gates is about to launch in the = online arena. I just received spam yesterday from the nederlands with an = animated gif of a girl performing oral sex on a horse. It was explicit. = I mean anatomically explicit and revolting. This is equivalent to what = Rumsfeld is having to contend with. If he is guilty like Alison alleges = of making deals with terroists then it is either unintentional or = strategic (he is using them with the ultimate goal of eradicating them = too by example) There are poets like bernstein who think they can operate like a fidel = castro or some other unenlightened individual. He recently told me he = had no time to interview me. Then weeks later he asked me to publish in = the MAG a third-party interview with him. I reminded him about the = interview I requested of him and told him it was a two-way street. I do = for you and you do for me. His reply was that i remove him from the MAG = mailing list. The same third party who interviewed him has interviewed = me too. He is from a middle-eastern country. Bernstein and Andrews and = others like Jerome Rothenberg and Silliman all operate similarly. They = behave like fools. They expect to be courted. Eileen Myles too. This = only tells you how small they are. Silliman has a wife suffering from a = chronic ailment for which I offered assistance with by referring him to = my family's alternative health practitioner. Instead he rebuffed me by = saying he had the expert in the nation treating his wife. Well then why = has his wife not recovered for several years. My health practitioner = treats this condition all the time with success. But he is not an = "expert". All Silliman cares about is is blog and his 25th book. Well i = have published 200,000 books and don't even count my visitors to the MAG = anymore. And i still put my wife and daughter first. I could go on. I have had encounters with untold types of people by = being the editor of the MAG. I have had a very quick education about = people.=20 I was thrown off Aaron Belz's list some months ago because he said I = only "toot my horn". This may have truth to it, since i am a human being = and a writer to boot, so i have a big ego to contend with, but what = about Aaron himself? He is a prima donna and he did not want to share = the stage. I also quoted leviticus in a post. This pushed his = fundamentalist buttons. I have also been kicked of alan sondheim's list after he had one of his = psychotic breaks and projected onto me his own pathologies. I lost my = temper for the first time ever (except for right now to a certain = degree). Alan censored me and had me removed from the list. This is very = ironic. But it's not the first time someone who has been persecuted = himself then goes on to persecute another up and coming writer/artist = who is threatening his fundamental world/writing views. I think all these people including kari edwards should examine = themselves, or rather get examined, since self-examination has not = amounted to anything in their cases. I have done more for writers in less than two years than what = Rothenberg has done in his whole lifetime. He put out one good anthology = and that's it. What has he done for living writers to match me? Nothing = whatsoever. You Kirby and our common friend brent bechtel are probably one of the = few people of this list with true integrity. Do you want to know who is truly one of the greatest living writers on = this list besides myself? Vernon Frazer. He is the only person who has = put his neck out way out and discovered his greatness. I post my material to this list to stir up people. No one has = accomplished what I have in so short a time both in regards to the = production of my own work and to the promotion of other writers.=20 Now I have to get back to my important work while most people are = probably watching TV. August Highland btw crag hill is also a writer to take very seriously - jeff harrison too. = keep your eyes on them. also look at the writer in the new mini-MAG that = just came out. These are 40 writers from all around the world. New York = is like a old west ghost town in comparison to the writers i publish in = the MAG and mini-MAG. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kirby Olson=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 2:34 PM Subject: Re: rumsfeld and self-glorification August, this is the first input I've gotten from you that I myself = have understood. I am not sure how Rumsfeld is not a boxer, or = whatever, but I guess the world of letters can stretch to the military = but not to boxers, who are just goofing around when they are not biting = other boxers' ears. I wasn't sure if I understood that! It's ok to glorify yourself I think, at least in art, and it is ok to = form a nation-state and try to take over your art, too. I only wish = that Lutheran surrealism could accomplish this. Every day I wake up and = reach for the headlines, but it's the ketchup king and the dodo from = Dallas, and not Luther and Breton holding hands and skipping down the = wedding aisle. We must live in hope. Best, Kirby August Highland wrote: > I understand Kirby Olson's writing about self-glorification. I don't = think Rumsfeld is self-glorifying though. He is selfless. A selfless = worker. Boxers are not men whom I want to emulate and boxing is not a = profession I want to compare the world of letters too. I think that John = Cage's reaction at Naropa is funnier than his Silence piece. > > Self-glorification worked in letters when letters was still = "un-enlightened". There are still poets today who self-glorify their = gender-preoccupations or their other preoccupations. Even poets who use = markhov chains in their poetry. They are "Cyber-confessionalists" though = they call themselves "codeworkers". But they are having a temper-tantrum = and a self-glorification episode just as much as eminem has his. > > I don't agree with Olson's collective/cooperative idea. Or clumps = either. > > Great writers and artists do arrive solo with some association with = groups, but not to a very large degree. Groups like the Language Poets = for example, are like tiny political parties that don't stand a chance, = like Howard Dean. They are usually comprised of sour-grape people with a = couple of pastors and a parish. > > The greats do arrive solo. I know who the living greats are today. = It's very easy for me to spot them out. I have an instinct for it. I = know who the major and minor writers are. I know the difference between = these writers and the "beaurocratic" types. I think we all know in our = hearts who the major and minor writers and who the "beaurocratic" = writers are. > > Augie > btw: > My comments about Rumsfeld was not a joke and he is a VERY personal = hero. So is Bill Gates and Arnold Schwarzenegger and Norman Schwarzkopf, = Bill Clinton. > > One person who is not a hero is Andy Warhol. His "mystique" is as = "self-glorifying" as a Dennis Rodman. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 03:19:52 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Tom' Tom' Cherie.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirby Olson is the 1st person on this list...for the last 5 yrs.. who has some common sense.. maybe beacause he live in America.. moving a 100 boxes of books from pt A to pt A plus 1... i now know i own most of Allen Sondheim's books.. glad to have it.. welcome aboard... most of it comes from a well know Art Critic.. who jettisoned 'em & i picked thru and stored it for now 10 yrs... reading the artist's inscrip. to toi...i'm happy to report that the only class more fawning and kissing up & down the ass...than our po are our artists...Dear Crit.. f...k me any place... but f...k me hard... yr UnSTEIN...DRn... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:28:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: whistle-blowing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable it's time someone took on the onus of being a whistle-blower ::August_Highland:: check out my Formal Spam work at the mini-MAG www.theminimag.com This is a very important new genre. I have three others i am working on 1. Genre-Splicing 2. Linguistics Engineering 3. V-I-R-U-S Poetry I may boast like a boxer but I don't fight, including passive = aggression. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 03:44:08 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Suckin' Up... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Speakin' of Suckin' up This is a po..i found again.. in my Suckin' up period... it's for Nam Jun Paik.. before the stroke... & i have no idea.. what its title means.. thot it might be interesting.. if YOU...yes...YOU... went back and posted a decade or so..old.. po.. w/o much further ad0... SIGMA For N.J.P. on the long march the buddha walked slow someone ahead someone behind someone shouted someone silent the Buddha drank water made art slept & kept marching the 1,000th mile the 1st mile 1,001 steps the face on the tube was the Buddha's face he knew it was because his followers told him so the Buddha knew what time it was it was time to shut up & keep marching 'where are we going master' "to see a 3 STOOGES movie dumbkopf" '& who or whom are we going with' "no poets, artists, or saints" '& why does it take so long' "keep in step or you'll miss the opening credits" Buddha Face stone like silk wind moves shadows silence speaks listen & march ahead/behind Fall/93...Soho.. THE unstein..drN... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 01:21:56 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Felsinger Subject: Re: rumsfeld and self-glorification and my pushcart prize In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable from a longer series titled, LETTERS AT THE END OF A ROPE Dear Donald, There are those moments when you turn to the camera, in your role as the more confrontational and acerbic Henry Kissenger, and sneer at the stupid little idiot idea of America. For you echo a chorus arising out of the Homeland, a ghoul of tactless undemocratic rage, that wishes to see itself as the harbinger of worldwide elucidation. For Americans feel in their dominion: cut off, impotent, harassed and unheard-- their concerns adrift in the wind like so many scattered silent daisy cutters. Your thankless task is to extend this anomie to the newly conquered lands of Afghanistan and Iraq, and to shine in their eyes a 'culture of freedom' so bright they will be unable to see America=B9s other hand. =20 As one who has spent a career embracing the means to an end, you are no garden-variety psycho killer, but (alas!), an emblem that could not have been better contrived. > From: August Highland > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:05:47 -0800 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: rumsfeld and self-glorification and my pushcart prize >=20 > I have "self-glorified" on this list with my marquee-like announcements o= n how > many new volumes I have produced. This is just my way of trying to get > attention. It's also a fun way to imitate the announcements I get from > companies. >=20 > When "88: A Journal of Contemporary American Poetry" nominated me for the > Pushcart Prize, I was filled with an ego-high. But it was really not > self-glorifying. It was feeling validated by an editor (Ian Randall Wilso= n) > whom I respect very highly. I know the Pushcart is very small in the gran= d > scheme of things. And I feel a little embarrassed by all the announcement= s I > sent out to friends when I was notified. But this is because I was feelin= g > very validated. I was not self-glorifying myself. >=20 > Self-glorification is one of the basest human urges. Look at Beethoven. > Self-Glorifying. That's why he is so boring after the first few bars. But= then > you take his "son" Brahms and his later "son" Elgar what do you get? With > Brahms you get personal transcendence. With Elgar you get a visionary who > composed more innovatively than you can imagine and whose spirit was devo= ted > to the elevation of humankind. Beethoven was a Muhammed Ali. Boring. >=20 > Augie, > BTW: > I have produced 50,000 new volumes each 1,000 pages in length :) Oh, and= each > one is a masterpiece. :0) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 04:45:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anastasios@LOSTBAKLAVA.COM Subject: Haiti, Bush and on and on... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://narcosphere.narconews.com/story/2004/3/6/222838/8700#1 Bush, Haiti & Venezuela: A Children's Tale By Charlie Hardy, Posted on Sat Mar 6th, 2004 at 10:28:38 PM EST CARACAS, VENEZUELA, MARCH 6, 2004: There are three very short words in Venezuela that often provoke smiles when they are spoken: "No fui yo!" (It wasn't I). They are heard when someone releases gases from their stomach and doesn't want to own up to it. The March 1 edition of the Caracas daily, Ultimas Noticias, has a photo of the ambassador of the United States to Haiti, Brian Foley, with his hands open and an interesting look on his face. I cannot see the words that are coming out of his mouth but "no fui yo" would seem very suitable for the moment. And he would be speaking the truth. He is only a part of the machine that crushed Jean-Bertrand Aristide.[...] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 09:06:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: NYT Obit of Pedro Pietri In-Reply-To: <001101c40333$1e46fa40$9480ac44@rochester.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v612) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/06/arts/theater/06PIET.html? ex=1079648878&ei=1&en=f8dc5b5552e81dd8 ___________________________________________________________ The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 07:19:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: { brad brace } Subject: 12hr update In-Reply-To: <200403070507.i27568OK006438@ultra5.eskimo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII _ |__ __| | /_ |__ \| | | __| | | | (_) | | __/ (__| |_ __ | | | | | | __/ | |/ /_| | | | | _ | | | '_ \ / _ \ | | / /| '_ \| '__| The 12hr-ISBN-JPEG Project >>>> extended since 1994 <<<< "... easily the most venerable net-art project of all time." _ | | | '_ \ / _ \ | | / /| '_ \| '__| -_ | | | |__ ___ | | ) | |__ _ __ _ | __ \ (_) | | | __| | | | (_) | | __/ (__| |_ _ | | | '_ \ / _ \ | | / /| '_ \| '__| _| |__) | __ ___ _ ___ ___| |_ |_ ___/ '__/ _ \| |/ _ \/ __| __| |_| _ |_| \___/| |\___|\___|\__| _ _/ | _ |__/ > > > > Synopsis: The 12hr-ISBN-JPEG Project began December 30, 1994. A `round-the-clock posting of sequenced hypermodern imagery from Brad Brace. The hypermodern minimizes the familiar, the known, the recognizable; it suspends identity, relations and history. This discourse, far from determining the locus in which it speaks, is avoiding the ground on which it could find support. It is trying to operate a decentering that leaves no privilege to any center. The 12-hour ISBN JPEG Project ----------------------------- began December 30, 1994 Pointless Hypermodern Imagery... posted/mailed every 12 hours... a spectral, trajective alignment for the 00`s! A continuum of minimalist masks in the face of catastrophe; conjuring up transformative metaphors for the everyday... A poetic reversibility of exclusive events... A post-rhetorical, continuous, apparently random sequence of imagery... genuine gritty, greyscale... corruptable, compact, collectable and compelling convergence. The voluptuousness of the grey imminence: the art of making the other disappear. Continual visual impact; an optical drumming, sculpted in duration, on the endless present of the Net. An extension of the printed ISBN-Book (0-9690745) series... critically unassimilable... imagery is gradually acquired, selected and re-sequenced over time... ineluctable, vertiginous connections. The 12hr dialtone... [ see http://www.eskimo.com/~bbrace/netcom/books.txt ] KEYWORDS: >> Disconnected, disjunctive, distended, de-centered, de-composed, ambiguous, augmented, ambilavent, homogeneous, reckless... >> Multi-faceted, oblique, obsessive, obscure, obdurate... >> Promulgated, personal, permeable, prolonged, polymorphous, provocative, poetic, plural, perverse, potent, prophetic, pathological, pointless... >> Emergent, evolving, eccentric, eclectic, egregious, exciting, entertaining, evasive, entropic, erotic, entrancing, enduring, expansive... Every 12 hours, another!... view them, re-post `em, save `em, trade `em, print `em, even publish them... Here`s how: ~ Set www-links to -> http://www.eskimo.com/~bbrace/12hr.html -> http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/12hr.html -> http://bbrace.net/12hr.html Look for the 12-hr-icon. Heavy traffic may require you to specify files more than once! Anarchie, Fetch, CuteFTP, TurboGopher... ~ Download from -> ftp.rdrop.com /pub/users/bbrace Download from -> ftp.eskimo.com /u/b/bbrace Download from -> hotline://artlyin.ftr.va.com.au * Remember to set tenex or binary. Get 12hr.jpeg ~ E-mail -> If you only have access to email, then you can use FTPmail to do essentially the same thing. Send a message with a body of 'help' to the server address nearest you: * ftpmail@ccc.uba.ar ftpmail@cs.uow.edu.au ftpmail@ftp.uni-stuttgart.de ftpmail@ftp.Dartmouth.edu ftpmail@ieunet.ie ftpmail@src.doc.ic.ac.uk ftpmail@archie.inesc.pt ftpmail@ftp.sun.ac.za ftpmail@ftp.sunet.se ftpmail@ftp.luth.se ftpmail@NCTUCCCA.edu.tw ftpmail@oak.oakland.edu ftpmail@sunsite.unc.edu ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com ftpmail@census.gov bitftp@plearn.bitnet bitftp@dearn.bitnet bitftp@vm.gmd.de bitftp@plearn.edu.pl bitftp@pucc.princeton.edu bitftp@pucc.bitnet * * ~ Mirror-sites requested! Archives too! The latest new jpeg will always be named, 12hr.jpeg Average size of images is only 45K. * Perl program to mirror ftp-sites/sub-directories: src.doc.ic.ac.uk:/packages/mirror * ~ Postings to usenet newsgroups: alt.12hr alt.binaries.pictures.12hr alt.binaries.pictures.misc alt.binaries.pictures.fine-art.misc * * Ask your system's news-administrator to carry these groups! (There are also usenet image browsers: TIFNY, PluckIt, Picture Agent, PictureView, Extractor97, NewsRover, Binary News Assistant, EasyNews) ~ This interminable, relentless sequence of imagery began in earnest on December 30, 1994. The basic structure of the project has been over twenty-four years in the making. While the specific sequence of photographs has been presently orchestrated for more than 12 years` worth of 12-hour postings, I will undoubtedly be tempted to tweak the ongoing publication with additional new interjected imagery. Each 12-hour posting is like the turning of a page; providing ample time for reflection, interruption, and assimilation. ~ The sites listed above also contain information on other cultural projects and sources. ~ A very low-volume, moderated mailing list for announcements and occasional commentary related to this project has been established at topica.com /subscribe 12hr-isbn-jpeg -- This project has not received government art-subsidies. Some opportunities still exist for financially assisting the publication of editions of large (33x46") prints; perhaps (Iris giclees) inkjet duotones or extended-black quadtones. Other supporters receive rare copies of the first three web-offset printed ISBN-Books. Contributions and requests for 12hr-email-subscriptions, can also be made at http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/buy-into.html, or by mailed cheque/check: $50/mo $500/yr. Art-institutions must pay for any images retained longer than 12 hours. -- ISBN is International Standard Book Number. JPEG and GIF are types of image files. Get the text-file, 'pictures-faq' to learn how to view or translate these images. [http://www.eskimo.com/~bbrace/netcom/pictures -faq.html] -- (c) Credit appreciated. Copyleft 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:50:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Martha L Deed Subject: Re: highland and self-glorification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a disturbing post. The personal attacks and revelations of other listmembers' personal tragedies seem beyond the boundaries of dialog -- let alone good taste. While censorship is even more offensive, the First Amendment should be alive and well -- here as well as elsewhere -- even the First Amendment has limits bounded by self-censorship, discretion, and truth. If the attacks are based on verified truths, the choice to publish them here seems questionable. If the attacks are based on false facts, surmise, or speculation, they could be slander, which is not protected by anyone's free speech rights. I don't think this was what Haas Bianchi had in mind when he suggested we needed a good argument on the Poetics Listserv. However, that is speculation . . . This is an inadequate response to a painful post. I don't know personally any of the people castigated in August Highland's post, but almost all of them are people whose work I greatly admire. I hope that other Listservers will know better how to respond to something like this -- and will also know whether any response at all is helpful. Martha Deed On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:13:43 -0800 August Highland writes: > There are poets like bernstein who think they can operate like a > fidel castro or some other unenlightened individual. . . . etc. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 13:15:55 -0500 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: fwd - Cochrane & Karasick @ Columbia University (NY) Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Poetry Reading with > Two Experimental Canadian Poets (one who writes about hockey) > > MARK COCHRANE > ADEENA KARASICK > (Bios below) > > The Gallery, Dodge Hall > Tuesday March 9th, 8:00 PM > Wine and Cheese > > Poets will be available after the reading to answer questions and to > discuss formal experimentation, specifically the use of collage. > This reading is sponsored by CA/T, Columbia Artists as Teachers > program, in affiliation with the weekly seminar "Going to Pieces: > Literature and Philosophy in Fragments." The Reading is hosted > by Third Year MFA Erin Soros who teaches the weekly seminar. > > > Bio: > > Mark Cochrane lives in Vancouver, Canada, where he teaches > literature and creative writing at Kwantlen University College, > occasionally reviews books for the Vancouver Sun, and studies Law at > the University of British Columbia. He is the author of Boy Am I > (Wolsak & Wynn 1995) and Change Room (Talonbooks 2000). A third > collection of poetry, The Replacements, in forthcoming in spring > 2005. > > Reviews: > > "Cochrane dazzles, and that's for sure. His is a big talent. He has > enormous energy and range. Pathology, mythology, family rites, the > weirdly homoerotic ambience of the hockey rink, and the sweaty > ironies of the gymnasium are some of the fuels that drive his > poetics. His writing is muscular, his optic daring and > original....At his best, and he is often there, Mark Cochrane is a > glorious writer." > - Bill Richardson, Quill & Quire > > > "Change Room is tough and brainy, with idiosyncratic language that > sometimes shifts to simplicity--the poetic equivalent of a power > chord." > - Event magazine > > * > > Bio: > > Adeena Karasick is a poet, cultural theorist and the award-winning > author of five books of poetry and poetic theory, The Arugula Fugues > (Zasterle Press, 2001), Dyssemia Sleaze (Talonbooks, Spring 2000), > Genrecide (Talonbooks, 1996), Memewars (Talonbooks, 1994), and The > Empress Has No Closure (Talonbooks, 1992). Marked with an urban, > Jewish, feminist aesthetic that continually challenges normative > modes of meaning production, Karasick has lectured and performed > worldwide and regularly publishes articles, reviews and dialogues on > contemporary poetry, poetics and cultural/semiotic theory. Since > Sept. 2000, she has been Assistant Professor of Poetry and Poetic > Theory at St. John's University. Forthcoming is The House That > Hijack Built (Talonbooks, Spring 2004). -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...8th coll'n - red earth (Black Moss) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 13:52:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Reading and Benefit for Catamaran in Amherst In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Celebrate the publication of Catamaran, the first journal >exclusively devoted to South Asian literature. But it is not. The Toronto South Asian Review has been around for years, and even published books. >Featuring Shona Ramaya >at Food for Thought bookstore: >Thursday, March 4th at 7:00 PM >106 N. Pleasant street, Amherst MA >Contact: Joan Barberich, 413-253-5432 > >*************** >Ravi Shankar >Poet-in-Residence >Assistant Professor >CCSU - English Dept. >860-832-2766 >shankarr@ccsu.edu -- George Bowering Working day and night for Canadian culture. 303 Fielden Ave. Port Colborne. ON, L3K 4T5 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 11:08:53 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Re: highland and self-glorification In-Reply-To: <20040307.125051.1384.0.mldeed1@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Martha, whenever I read a comments about censorship I have to take note, and since I never take the time to read the posts by August, I had to check it out. I was more than saddened by the rage and contempt directed not so much towards me, but towards those I know, and know their goodness (I have never stayed at a place where I felt as welcome as I did with Aaron Belz and family- what a wonderful sweet joy). I was also dismayed at the attack about a personal matter, that obviously went on outside the context of this list, between August and Ron Silliman concerning a very personal issues to Ron. and I agree, to bad mouth folks in public is at least in bad taste, but this seems aggressive, mean spirited and vicious.. I think it is a pity.. that in a time like this of national crisis, a divisive diatribe has shown up and left a nasty residue... kari On Sunday, March 7, 2004, at 09:50 AM, Martha L Deed wrote: > This is a disturbing post. The personal attacks and revelations of > other > listmembers' personal tragedies seem beyond the boundaries of dialog -- > let alone good taste. While censorship is even more offensive, the > First > Amendment should be alive and well -- here as well as elsewhere -- even > the First Amendment has limits bounded by self-censorship, discretion, > and truth. If the attacks are based on verified truths, the choice to > publish them here seems questionable. If the attacks are based on > false > facts, surmise, or speculation, they could be slander, which is not > protected by anyone's free speech rights. > > I don't think this was what Haas Bianchi had in mind when he suggested > we > needed a good argument on the Poetics Listserv. However, that is > speculation . . . > > This is an inadequate response to a painful post. I don't know > personally any of the people castigated in August Highland's post, but > almost all of them are people whose work I greatly admire. I hope that > other Listservers will know better how to respond to something like > this > -- and will also know whether any response at all is helpful. > > Martha Deed > > On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:13:43 -0800 August Highland > writes: >> There are poets like bernstein who think they can operate like a >> fidel castro or some other unenlightened individual. . . . > > etc. > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 11:24:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: highland and self-glorification In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beware of the big fish who always try to eat down the small fish -- *just the small fish.* ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:02:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: NEW LISTERV POLICY FOR FLAMING | PLEASE READ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear list-members, In light of the increasing number of unacceptable *personal* attacks that have been posted on the listserv over the last six to eight months the listserv policy for flaming has been changed. For the past couple of years we have made it clear in the welcome message that flaming is not tolerated on the list and, to ensure that all subscribers are clear about what flaming is and why we don't do it, it was defined as any post which attacks "fellow listees or the list owners, also messages designed to 'waste bandwidth' or cause the list to reach its daily limit". Flaming is now defined as any post that resembles a personal attack or personal insult to anyone--subscriber or not--in any way at all. This of course includes ad hominem arguments in which the person rather than their work is attacked--in other words while critique of a person's work is welcome(critical inquiry is one of the main functions of the list), this critique cannot extend to a critique or criticism of the person. I think most would agree that we cannot risk losing the listserv as a productive communal space for discussion and announcements; as such, subscribers who do not follow listserv policy on flaming will first receive a warning from the listserv moderator and should they fail to follow policy again they will immediately be placed on review. These changes should not be surprising or oppressive in any way--they're simply rules of decency and respect that ought to be extended to all at all times. If any of this is unclear in any way please do feel free to contact me. All best, Lori Emerson listserv moderator ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:05:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: poetics@buffalo.edu Comments: Originally-From: Maria Damon From: Poetics List Administration Subject: projects? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" hey all, i'm feeling the need to hear what my colleagues are up to. what are your current projects large and small, poetic and adjacently-poetic? here are mine: --just finished a chapter on "queer cities" for steve fredman's blackwell companion to 20th c am poetry --still agonizingly butting heads w/ this stupid intro to poetry and cultural studies, ira's done his share and the ball's in my court --going to make a shawl for the sheila shawl extravaganza, an auction that will provide $$ for some sheila wellstone memorial funds for domestic violence prevention etc --on-going mini-vispo x-stitch projects... --cooking fish chowders how 'bout chu? -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:05:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: poetics@buffalo.edu Comments: Originally-From: Maria Damon From: Poetics List Administration Subject: lyx ish memorial celebration Comments: cc: dtv@mwt.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" random splurtling impresssionistic: a wonderful drive in gray weather, just cool enough, just early enough (8 am on a saturday) for smooth interstate sailing. i made it in 3 hours or so, a bit longer, following miekal's directions. dipping way into amish country in the hills and refuges of the driftless grottoes supreme of southwestern wisconsin. got to lyx's house in lafarge ("right behind the hardware store on main street, pretty straightforward") which was full of hippies making breakfast. i went up stairs to look at lyx's last place of rest, her bedroom with a single maternal-looking gourd on the sheets. the gray and white cat still sleeping on the chair, clearly missing her. bright things all over: hyacinths, daffodils, dried wondrous curly weeds, handmade cards tacked to the wall, a large golden Buddha in the corner, a low table spread with musical instruments, stringed --another room full of wind instruments, many huge gourds that had been turned into sax-like reed-axes...it's hard to cover as much ground as i'd like, get down all the magical details of her space, the delightful free-form tiling jobs, the red bathtub, her fabulous shiny black lace-up boots still in her closet. i remember admiring them once when she was wearing them and she said she'd gotten them for a song at a thrift store, and today they were as shiny as they were back then, maybe 5 years ago, as if she'd just polished them. i love those boots, to me they are Lyx. there were wondrous dress-up clothes in the walk-in closet. i feasted my eyes (how's that for a cliche) on all of the life-art art-life minutiae in every moment and every corner. in one room there was an enormous gilt and flowered asian (japanese?) fan over the bed, like a protecting angel. i went downstairs and there were some people knitting so i joined them w/ my x-stitching. one guy also was danish and knew about danish needle arts so that was fun. there was an ojibwe lac de flambeau guy there, nick hawkins, who later did a ceremony with tobacco and prayers. boa, who co-owned the house w/ lyx, had asked him to come down. boa was wearing a pink and purple knit hat. everyone was wearing imaginative and colorful clothing. but nothing like what was to come. kids and grownups with clown make-up and wild clothing, mylar kites, wind and percussion instruments galore, party clothes in the finest anarcho-hippie tradition, a whole row of us carrying dijeridoos --trumpet, trombone, sax, and gourd (played by miekal); lots of videographers running alongside and among all the paraders. Zon whom i hadn't seen in years has shot up and is a handsome young man with a lot of presence. he was wearing a red velveteen jacket and camouflage fatigues. i guess he was exhausted from recent events and from djing a audio-wake for his mother the last few days but he was very in control of events and showed a lot of leadership, just like his mother. a lot of kids and dogs were there. the kids were of all ages. some were wearing bright colored bathrobes of plushy material. we walked en masse a few miles to a beautiful stark park and boa had lyx's ashes in a gourd she had made. we each took some ashes, they were a lot darker and more bitter-tasting than my uncle al's from a few years ago --and we scattered them about, into the kickapoo river, which was flowing very swiftly under a wooden bridge a lot of us stood on. i was most touched when miekal first emptied his hand of the ashes, then took a bell off from the string of bells around his neck and dropped it into the river and finally took his magnificent gourd-sax and hurled it into the river as well. there was drumming the whole time. then nick hawkins had us each take some tobacco from his beaded pouch with our left hands (closer to the heart), put some back on a cloth that he was going to take back up to the lac de flambeau rez, then we sprinkled the remaining tobacco around --i dropped mine back into the river, and looked to see if the gourd-sax had caught on a snag downstream --i think i saw it; i could hardly bear the idea of it just drifing somewhere to get caught and rot, but i guess that is my limitation as a hoarder. then allegra had us gather in a circle and people said things about lyx, or played instruments (a brilliant androgynous saxophonist did something cool) and zon and miekal both spoke as did many others in their bright garb and joyous mien. her yoga teacher was there. he sang a song, mama shu something. we tried to sing along. we sang some other stuff and struck some yoga poses. after a few hours we went back to the house and then went to the community center down the block for a dinner. camille had made wonderful traditional romanian funeral food, a combination of wheatberries, honey, walnuts and a bit of chocolate chips. walnuts stood for the threshold between life and death, wheatberries for i can't remember, honey for lyx's qualities and values in this life. we each tasted it and thought of lyx. it was in the basement of the community center with long tables and folding chairs. it was a very community-ish feeling. i saw some folks i recognized from brief trips to dreamtime over the years. I am not really a part of the community but a fellow-traveler of sorts but people were very nice and lyx was an obvious topic of conversation. lyx was an extraordinary person and everybody recognized it and acknowledged it. she is still. it seemed a little strange not to have her there but i guess that's what it was all about. whenever i am given the ashes of a person i try to ingest just a tiny bit. i guess that is called anthropophagy and is a very common mourning rite, or at least allen ginsberg told me that when i asked him about it in 1996, a few months before i met miekal and lyx and embraced dreamtime and xexoxial into my world. there was going to be a party at dreamtime later but i hit the road so i could sleep in my own bed instead of going to the bed and breakfast i'd planned on. so now i'm home after the 3.5 hour drive listening to all kinds of wonderful People's Music on the radio. It was snowing and blowing but i was very warm, a bit too warm, had to keep opening the window. sweet dreams, lyx and everybody. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:06:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Shankar, Ravi (English)" Subject: Re: Reading and Benefit for Catamaran in Amherst MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable George - glad to see you incarnate the precept - working day and night = for Canadian culture - because I hadn't known of the existence of the = Toronto South Asian Review and will look them up. I forwarded an = announcement without editing copy, but let me revise those words = nonetheless: Catamaran is America's first literary journal devoted = exclusively to South Asian literature. The inaugural issue features a = restropsective on Agha Shahid Ali, among other reviews, poems, essays = and stories . In fact, the editors of = both journals should consolidate energies in conversation. There's a = real need to celebrate such work as the recent closure of the Asian = American Writers Workshop (having just celebrated ten years of = existence) reminds us. =20 *************** Ravi Shankar=20 Poet-in-Residence Assistant Professor CCSU - English Dept. 860-832-2766 shankarr@ccsu.edu > ---------- > From: UB Poetics discussion group on behalf of George Bowering > Reply To: UB Poetics discussion group > Sent: Sunday, March 7, 2004 1:52 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Reading and Benefit for Catamaran in Amherst >=20 > >Celebrate the publication of Catamaran, the first journal > >exclusively devoted to South Asian literature. >=20 > But it is not. The Toronto South Asian Review has been around for > years, and even published books. >=20 > >Featuring Shona Ramaya > >at Food for Thought bookstore: > >Thursday, March 4th at 7:00 PM > >106 N. Pleasant street, Amherst MA > >Contact: Joan Barberich, 413-253-5432 > > > >*************** > >Ravi Shankar > >Poet-in-Residence > >Assistant Professor > >CCSU - English Dept. > >860-832-2766 > >shankarr@ccsu.edu >=20 >=20 > -- > George Bowering > Working day and night for Canadian culture. >=20 > 303 Fielden Ave. > Port Colborne. ON, > L3K 4T5 >=20 >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:15:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: messages from Maria Damon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline All: sorry, the last two messages I sent on are from Maria Damon who I suspect accidentally sent her posts to the administration account rather than the listserv. Best, Lori ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 13:14:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sb Subject: Re: NEW LISTERV POLICY FOR FLAMING | PLEASE READ In-Reply-To: <17013328.1078671750@[192.168.1.47]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As a new member, who joined just yesterday, I thank you for this. Sharon Brogan www.sbpoet.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Poetics List Administration Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 1:02 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: NEW LISTERV POLICY FOR FLAMING | PLEASE READ Dear list-members, In light of the increasing number of unacceptable *personal* attacks that have been posted on the listserv over the last six to eight months the listserv policy for flaming has been changed. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 14:33:23 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Bechtel Subject: Re: highland and self-glorification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Everyone probably has something against someone else in the writing world, dislikes certain personalities, and who knows, might even completely detest some other writers. Normally, these opinions are not shared. August is presenting thoughts that are in his head, silent, bouncing around in there someplace - sentiments that other would likely feel, not towards these specific individuals, but probably towards someone. It would be interesting to give out a truth serum and have people write what they actually think - a huge flame war would probably result, which wouldn't be good for the whole concept of "shared space" in an Internet forum, but people would have a lot to say. Mmm. I don't have any grudges against anyone on Poetics. But who knows? Maybe some people hate my guts. There goes my external, detached analysis. Sincerely, Brent ----- Original Message ----- From: "August Highland" To: Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 2:13 AM Subject: highland and self-glorification I could go on. I have had encounters with untold types of people by being the editor of the MAG. I have had a very quick education about people. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:47:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: projects? In-Reply-To: <1078689925.404b80852c3c9@mail1.buffalo.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Maria, I assume this was from you? At the moment I'm using a program on my linux pda, Calculon, which allows graphic math plotting; it extends to 4 dimensions by creating a sliding rotation along the w-x axis, and I'm fascinated by this. I want to make some short films using this and working with spherical shapes. I'm also trying to decide where to go with my performance work; I have an idea using a Chinese scholar's stone I have. Another direction - my good shakuhachi will be coming back from repair, and I want to do some serious practice/recording with it, also combining it with my old Mirage sampler. Ellen Zweig and I are still stumbling through the classical Chinese of the 1000 Char. essay. In terms of writing, I'm still stumbling as usual among codework theory, the nature of code, etc. I still find the idea of symbolic enframing enormously difficult, in part because of its already theoretical overdetermination with little neurophysiology to back it. But I'm crawling through some debris or other. In terms of the recent flaming, one can always use a kill file to keep one sane; I do. But I do agree that flaming has no place on a list, which is already a delicate organism, and needs tending and cultivation. A list can collapse very quicky through spiteful attacks - the communality of a list is worth far more than that. - Alan ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:53:30 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harriet Zinnes Subject: Re: projects? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is this the information you are seeking? I'm preparing for publication two new mss: one, a new book of poems to be called SHARDS (for Marsh Hawk Press), and the other, a book of published literary criticism to be called MEANING, EXTENDED (for Textos Books). Sincerely Harriet Zinnes ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:59:17 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: projects MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My book, _Vanishing Points of Resemblance_, is due from Generator Press within the next month or so. I continue to blog at http://vanishingpoints.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 05:13:27 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Baltimore and Surroundings Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Dear List, Yesterday it came to my attention that there's this phenomenal little used book store in the Hampden section of Baltimore. I talked to the owner, who is very interested in doing readings and lectures out of the back of the store and also in carrying our books (furniture press). the thing is, he needs to punch a hole in the wall in the rear of the room so there's a fire escape, and he needs cash to do it. What i suggested was that i'd definately help him clean up the back of the store and possibly give him some cash 'cause he's interested in my help with the readings. the press is looking for a venue and this is the best possible spot because it's in the middle of the merchants district and the artists and some galleries are posited all over. this guy needs 5-6 hundred bucks, and what i told him i could do was sell some of my books to raise some cash. or i could ask around and see if anyone would be willing to give help or suggest someone who could do it for cheap, as a gesture, and this person would get a handsome 'thank you'. in the meantime, i'm putting this up to see exactly who is in the baltimore or surrounding area who could put in a little effort (either by donating time, ideas or cash). i'm putting up my catalogue and some of the cash from sales will go towards making this space 'readable'. thanks for reading. please go to www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae if you'd like to check out the catalogue. nico vassilakis' pamphlet is ready and donna kuhn's forthcoming chap will be ready by this weekend. any queries please contact me. thanks, Christophe Casamassima -- _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 16:19:08 -0500 Reply-To: Millie Niss on eathlink Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss on eathlink Subject: Re: highland and self-glorification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am happy about the new policy on flaming. I hope this post does not violate it. I feel I have to say something just because August stomped on people mercilessly, and I think the victims will feel better if neutral parties come to their defense. I was particularly upset by the references to Silliman, Alan, and kari edwards. I have a chronic illness myself and have been mightily hurt by people who think they can cure me through some idiosyncratic alternative method. It is bad enough to be sick or to have a sick relative, but when people accuse you of doing it to yourself by failing to take their advice -- whatever the value of said advice -- it can be devastating. I don't know Ron Silliman personally, but I know his work and blog, and I respect both greatly. On the other hand, I know Alan somewhat and I have never found him to be in the slightest bit vindictive. I don't know if or why he kicked August off his list, but I doubt it was a personal attack. And to accuse someone of psychosis and projection is indecent. Moreover, some of my best friends are psychotic :-) Psychosis is a sign of serious illness rather than a dirty epithet to foist on your enemies, and I think it is rude to use the word as August did from the point of view of tolerating people with psychiatric disabilities, as well as for the obvious reason that it is was all but certainly *untrue* and was not nice. Alan has been supportive of my work in web art, as he has of many others on webartery and other lists, and he has worked with dozens of people successfully. To attack someone who has done so much to further the careers of other people in the arts makes no sense. The thing about kari was really unspeakable. I won't say more. I don't mean to make this continue by bringing up August's specific points, but coming to people's defense is not arguing, it's support. Millie ----- Original Message ----- From: "August Highland" To: Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 3:13 AM Subject: highland and self-glorification The artist/writer is in the world like a rumsfeld or schwarzkopf. this is because of the nature of people in all walks of life. There are artist/writer types who are like terrorists or tyrant-dictated countries and marginalized liberal countries who although they have "good" intentions do not contribute to global stability and individual justice. Croggon made a good comment about Kissinger who is also a hero of mine. But Kissinger lived in a different time than now. We now have new technology to neutralize renegade countries or guerilla cells. Rumsfeld is doing in the miltary arena what Gates is about to launch in the online arena. I just received spam yesterday from the nederlands with an animated gif of a girl performing oral sex on a horse. It was explicit. I mean anatomically explicit and revolting. This is equivalent to what Rumsfeld is having to contend with. If he is guilty like Alison alleges of making deals with terroists then it is either unintentional or strategic (he is using them with the ultimate goal of eradicating them too by example) There are poets like bernstein who think they can operate like a fidel castro or some other unenlightened individual. He recently told me he had no time to interview me. Then weeks later he asked me to publish in the MAG a third-party interview with him. I reminded him about the interview I requested of him and told him it was a two-way street. I do for you and you do for me. His reply was that i remove him from the MAG mailing list. The same third party who interviewed him has interviewed me too. He is from a middle-eastern country. Bernstein and Andrews and others like Jerome Rothenberg and Silliman all operate similarly. They behave like fools. They expect to be courted. Eileen Myles too. This only tells you how small they are. Silliman has a wife suffering from a chronic ailment for which I offered assistance with by referring him to my family's alternative health practitioner. Instead he rebuffed me by saying he had the expert in the nation treating his wife. Well then why has his wife not recovered for several years. My health practitioner treats this condition all the time with success. But he is not an "expert". All Silliman cares about is is blog and his 25th book. Well i have published 200,000 books and don't even count my visitors to the MAG anymore. And i still put my wife and daughter first. I could go on. I have had encounters with untold types of people by being the editor of the MAG. I have had a very quick education about people. I was thrown off Aaron Belz's list some months ago because he said I only "toot my horn". This may have truth to it, since i am a human being and a writer to boot, so i have a big ego to contend with, but what about Aaron himself? He is a prima donna and he did not want to share the stage. I also quoted leviticus in a post. This pushed his fundamentalist buttons. I have also been kicked of alan sondheim's list after he had one of his psychotic breaks and projected onto me his own pathologies. I lost my temper for the first time ever (except for right now to a certain degree). Alan censored me and had me removed from the list. This is very ironic. But it's not the first time someone who has been persecuted himself then goes on to persecute another up and coming writer/artist who is threatening his fundamental world/writing views. I think all these people including kari edwards should examine themselves, or rather get examined, since self-examination has not amounted to anything in their cases. I have done more for writers in less than two years than what Rothenberg has done in his whole lifetime. He put out one good anthology and that's it. What has he done for living writers to match me? Nothing whatsoever. You Kirby and our common friend brent bechtel are probably one of the few people of this list with true integrity. Do you want to know who is truly one of the greatest living writers on this list besides myself? Vernon Frazer. He is the only person who has put his neck out way out and discovered his greatness. I post my material to this list to stir up people. No one has accomplished what I have in so short a time both in regards to the production of my own work and to the promotion of other writers. Now I have to get back to my important work while most people are probably watching TV. August Highland btw crag hill is also a writer to take very seriously - jeff harrison too. keep your eyes on them. also look at the writer in the new mini-MAG that just came out. These are 40 writers from all around the world. New York is like a old west ghost town in comparison to the writers i publish in the MAG and mini-MAG. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirby Olson To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 2:34 PM Subject: Re: rumsfeld and self-glorification August, this is the first input I've gotten from you that I myself have understood. I am not sure how Rumsfeld is not a boxer, or whatever, but I guess the world of letters can stretch to the military but not to boxers, who are just goofing around when they are not biting other boxers' ears. I wasn't sure if I understood that! It's ok to glorify yourself I think, at least in art, and it is ok to form a nation-state and try to take over your art, too. I only wish that Lutheran surrealism could accomplish this. Every day I wake up and reach for the headlines, but it's the ketchup king and the dodo from Dallas, and not Luther and Breton holding hands and skipping down the wedding aisle. We must live in hope. Best, Kirby August Highland wrote: > I understand Kirby Olson's writing about self-glorification. I don't think Rumsfeld is self-glorifying though. He is selfless. A selfless worker. Boxers are not men whom I want to emulate and boxing is not a profession I want to compare the world of letters too. I think that John Cage's reaction at Naropa is funnier than his Silence piece. > > Self-glorification worked in letters when letters was still "un-enlightened". There are still poets today who self-glorify their gender-preoccupations or their other preoccupations. Even poets who use markhov chains in their poetry. They are "Cyber-confessionalists" though they call themselves "codeworkers". But they are having a temper-tantrum and a self-glorification episode just as much as eminem has his. > > I don't agree with Olson's collective/cooperative idea. Or clumps either. > > Great writers and artists do arrive solo with some association with groups, but not to a very large degree. Groups like the Language Poets for example, are like tiny political parties that don't stand a chance, like Howard Dean. They are usually comprised of sour-grape people with a couple of pastors and a parish. > > The greats do arrive solo. I know who the living greats are today. It's very easy for me to spot them out. I have an instinct for it. I know who the major and minor writers are. I know the difference between these writers and the "beaurocratic" types. I think we all know in our hearts who the major and minor writers and who the "beaurocratic" writers are. > > Augie > btw: > My comments about Rumsfeld was not a joke and he is a VERY personal hero. So is Bill Gates and Arnold Schwarzenegger and Norman Schwarzkopf, Bill Clinton. > > One person who is not a hero is Andy Warhol. His "mystique" is as "self-glorifying" as a Dennis Rodman. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 16:25:30 -0500 Reply-To: Millie Niss on eathlink Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss on eathlink Subject: in honor of the true psychotics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I hope the mailer/list does not screw up my line breaks. It's a full moon and it's always risky to write poetry in an HTML context when you don't have access to the underlying code.... Millie ------ I Do Just What The Little Voices Tell Me To cloud-dwellers order me around misty voices congeal in the air humans: the other white meat the rude anthropophagi wouldn't even consider you the morals of cannibals: see Montaigne aboriginal comes out of forest, sees gas station cf United States vs. Texaco oil drenched auks and gulls pollute the ground, cannot fly fly room produces three Nobel prizes Nobel invented some kind of armament a kinder, gentler conservative bathes under the thousand points of light gets sunstroke don't laugh, it's true, you really are one of them duck behind the building to avoid the mind control rays I think you are a turnip, go plant yourself plants have feelings too, haven't you seen a despairing azalea red like the blood of green toads? the narrative hides in the bushes, darts to and fro to avoid predators lions get bored, comb manes you, too can be a hair dresser with the proper vocational training! why, no, I'm a captain in the Martian infantry nerve gas useless against unmanned flying vehicles like model airplanes Rumsfeld built in parents' basement, age ten when they wouldn't let him play with them spin the bottle kiss the girl be prepared abstinence education wasted on sterile mutant from Mars the pod people are coming coming coming no, not in the ejaculatory sense though they have seven sexes and their matings produce gamma rays which invade my brain and yours you are one of them I said you were one of them you said not but your denials are pod people thoughts like Mendel's genetically white pea flowers no not pee flowers human urine is a poor fertilizer as plants don't like urea and punning is a mental disorder like all wordplay the product of loose associations like organizations for loose women? why not loose stools laxative products incorporated scatology is symptomatic so is sense like three dollars and ninety five cents for a haircut in 1985 during the Reagan years when ketchup was a vegetable and vegetables couldn't be unplugged by republicans every brainless body is a valuable human being fetuses unite for Bush and Cheney! already-born people can be electrocuted by the state but an embryo does not have original sin like Coke Classic, the original flavor formula guarded secretly by a company of 273 Swiss Guards like the Pope but without Parkinson's dopamine deficiencies suck who wants to shake like a reed of bamboo in Chiang Kai-Shek's garden or his pandas' pen but too much dopamine is your cross to bear up on Calvary not in a film by Mel Gibson not in Aramaic though the Kabbala is in part limbic excess makes Martians come no we won't repeat the same old pun though punsters are serial offenders and cereal boxes sometimes have Martians only if contents is green and sugared and glows in the dark like fluorescing minerals or fish caught in coral reef the sails, put on the mask, dive in shit forgot the oxygen come back up no we do not repeat our puns did you know that in Australia your corpse can be rendered into a resin and fed to a coral reef? it's true but green burial in South Carolina in a memorial nature preserve is cheaper by the case than artificial jam bumper to bumper on the FDR Drive someone throws a brick through my windshield missing me annihilates my Baby Jesus air freshener like Woody Guthrie said doin' ninety I'm not wary long's I got my Virgin Mary glued to the dashboard of my car I don't care if it rains or freezes long's I got my baby Jesus! can you stop singing that goddamned song it's stuck in my head like a broken DVD and no I don't have VD but are your BVDs clean or fertilized with slime and slush? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:07:10 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Haiti, Bush and on and on... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Anastasios, the situation in Haiti is bizarre, and it's clear that our administration let Aristide crumble. But are you saying that you want a U.S. military intervention? It's the only thing that could have saved him. Exactly what is going on there is still unknown. It is quite clear that Aristide was not playing ball with the business elite, and they wanted him out. But how do you think Haiti could ever turn its fate around? I'd like to deal with the larger issues not just of who is immediately responsible for this atrocious turn of events, but what solution could possibly be found. Very high illiteracy, very high AIDS rate, the top soil is disappearing at an amazing rate, an almost totally corrupt upper class, a political system that has seemingly never worked, an endemic religious culture that is completely predatory and vicious beyond belief -- zombification -- which turns a person into a member of the living dead, mostly foreign-owned businesses that pay no taxes but pay bribes to the leadership. How can anything change when so much is against this country? The country has to be totally redesigned from the ground up if it is going to function. The vast majority of the peopl of Haiti are descendents of the former nation of Dahomey, which was itself no picnic. Mountains of skulls made the superstructure of one ancient palace, and the same voodoo business, the same gods, are still in place there. There is the probability or at least possibility that 100 years of US and French embargo more or less destroyed Haiti's capability of becoming one of the brighter nations of the Caribbean. What was done to Germany accomplished that in a couple of decades after WWI, and perhaps this is part of it. But I wonder what's to be done, and why what is done there is always already a disaster. The other half of the island is no picnic either but by comparison to Haiti it's quite functional. But Anastasios -- what you seem to be arguing is for military intervention, and your links were also seemingly full of people who really wanted a military intervention. The alternative to that, was doing nothing, and letting Aristide get slaughtered. The US seems to have at least saved Aristide. Do Bush and his people intend to put him back in after brokering another United Nations type of coalition, which is what everybody on the left seemed to want in Iraq? Meanwhile, a lot of necks are going to find a machete. And in this morning's paper, it said that BABY DOC DUVALIER yearns to return to Haiti from his exile in Miami. Just as Idi Amin no doubted yearned to get back in the saddle in Uganda. Short of a military intervention, this is never going to happen. And it would have to be a military intervention followed by thirty or forty years of permanent peacekeeping, with educational initiatives, and such massive changes that probably no relativist would be able to accept it. -- Kirby anastasios@LOSTBAKLAVA.COM wrote: > http://narcosphere.narconews.com/story/2004/3/6/222838/8700#1 > > Bush, Haiti & Venezuela: A Children's Tale > > By Charlie Hardy, > Posted on Sat Mar 6th, 2004 at 10:28:38 PM EST > > CARACAS, VENEZUELA, MARCH 6, 2004: There are three > very short words in Venezuela that often provoke smiles when they are > spoken: "No fui yo!" (It wasn't I). They are heard when someone releases > gases from their stomach and doesn't want to own up to it. > > The March 1 edition of the Caracas daily, Ultimas Noticias, has a photo of > the ambassador of the United States to Haiti, Brian Foley, with his hands > open and an interesting look on his face. I cannot see the words that are > coming out of his mouth but "no fui yo" would seem very suitable for the > moment. And he would be speaking the truth. He is only a part of the > machine that crushed Jean-Bertrand Aristide.[...] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:21:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Reading and Benefit for Catamaran in Amherst In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > George - glad to see you incarnate the precept - working day >and night for Canadian culture - because I hadn't known of the >existence of the Toronto South Asian Review and will look them up. I >forwarded an announcement without editing copy, but let me revise >those words nonetheless: Catamaran is America's first literary >journal devoted exclusively to South Asian literature. I am glad to help, and glad to see the revision, but maybe you should say not "America's" but rather "in the US." There are many people in America who do not like it when people in the US call their country that. Of course we dont like hearing the US basketball champions called the "World champions," either . . . . -- George Bowering Working day and night for Canadian culture. 303 Fielden Ave. Port Colborne. ON, L3K 4T5 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:24:33 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: highland and self-glorification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 August! It is nice to have you and Harry Nudel say nice things about me.= It was refreshing even. But I guess I would say that listserv owners at= this board have been quite gracious with me. In spite of my being an an= ti-Marxist Christian liberal pushing a Lutheran surrealist aesthetic, nob= ody's told me to cork it. In fact, my politics are about as stable as so= me people's sexual identity, and yet nobody's kicked me off. Bernstein h= as been gracious to me via backchannel, as has Silliman, and Aaron Belz a= nd I -- sometimes I think he's me I like him so much. Kari Edwards has b= een very nice to me, and so has Alan Sondheim and everybody else you've m= entioned. In spite of the fact of our very different thinking, I think i= t is possible to say just about what you want on this board, although I w= ouldn't get excited and think you might change anybody's mind. I've neve= r changed anybody's mind, and if I did, I would probably change my mind t= o the other person's former beliefs in order to keep the argument going. = Was it you, or was it the charming Harry Nudel who said that I had commo= n sense? This is something that nobody's ever attributed to me -- not my= mother even (this was the basis of her list of calumnious charges agains= t me, as I recall), so it was extremely pleasant to hear this. My mom an= d I get along famously now, but she would still probably not grant common sense as my m= ost foregrounded quality. Her nickname for me as a boy was Colonel Quack!= Tyranny is when all the power's in one person, or in one faction's, hands= -- that's a paraphrase of Madison. In art generally, and on this board, that's never going to be the case. = We will all vanish, and new people will take over, and most of us will th= en go to heaven and continue our discussions in the Nude Jerusalem. Mean= while, we can have fun here, I think. Just don't expect anything (you've= already accomplished so much, as you have said), and enjoy the ride. Peace -- Kirby August Highland wrote: > The artist/writer is in the world like a rumsfeld or schwarzkopf. this = is because of the nature of people in all walks of life. There are artist= /writer types who are like terrorists or tyrant-dictated countries and ma= rginalized liberal countries who although they have "good" intentions do = not contribute to global stability and individual justice. Croggon made a= good comment about Kissinger who is also a hero of mine. But Kissinger l= ived in a different time than now. We now have new technology to neutrali= ze renegade countries or guerilla cells. Rumsfeld is doing in the miltary= arena what Gates is about to launch in the online arena. I just received= spam yesterday from the nederlands with an animated gif of a girl perfor= ming oral sex on a horse. It was explicit. I mean anatomically explicit a= nd revolting. This is equivalent to what Rumsfeld is having to contend wi= th. If he is guilty like Alison alleges of making deals with terroists th= en it is either unintentional or strategic (he is using them with the ult= imate goal of eradicating them too by example) > > There are poets like bernstein who think they can operate like a fidel = castro or some other unenlightened individual. He recently told me he had= no time to interview me. Then weeks later he asked me to publish in the = MAG a third-party interview with him. I reminded him about the interview = I requested of him and told him it was a two-way street. I do for you and= you do for me. His reply was that i remove him from the MAG mailing list= =2E The same third party who interviewed him has interviewed me too. He i= s from a middle-eastern country. Bernstein and Andrews and others like Je= rome Rothenberg and Silliman all operate similarly. They behave like fool= s. They expect to be courted. Eileen Myles too. This only tells you how s= mall they are. Silliman has a wife suffering from a chronic ailment for w= hich I offered assistance with by referring him to my family's alternativ= e health practitioner. Instead he rebuffed me by saying he had the expert= in the nation treating his wife. Well then why has his wife not recovere= d for several years. My health practitioner treats this condition all the= time with success. But he is not an "expert". All Silliman cares about i= s is blog and his 25th book. Well i have published 200,000 books and don'= t even count my visitors to the MAG anymore. And i still put my wife and = daughter first. > > I could go on. I have had encounters with untold types of people by bei= ng the editor of the MAG. I have had a very quick education about people.= > > I was thrown off Aaron Belz's list some months ago because he said I on= ly "toot my horn". This may have truth to it, since i am a human being an= d a writer to boot, so i have a big ego to contend with, but what about A= aron himself? He is a prima donna and he did not want to share the stage.= I also quoted leviticus in a post. This pushed his fundamentalist button= s. > > I have also been kicked of alan sondheim's list after he had one of his= psychotic breaks and projected onto me his own pathologies. I lost my te= mper for the first time ever (except for right now to a certain degree). = Alan censored me and had me removed from the list. This is very ironic. B= ut it's not the first time someone who has been persecuted himself then g= oes on to persecute another up and coming writer/artist who is threatenin= g his fundamental world/writing views. > > I think all these people including kari edwards should examine themselv= es, or rather get examined, since self-examination has not amounted to an= ything in their cases. > > I have done more for writers in less than two years than what Rothenbe= rg has done in his whole lifetime. He put out one good anthology and that= 's it. What has he done for living writers to match me? Nothing whatsoeve= r. > > You Kirby and our common friend brent bechtel are probably one of the f= ew people of this list with true integrity. > > Do you want to know who is truly one of the greatest living writers on = this list besides myself? Vernon Frazer. He is the only person who has pu= t his neck out way out and discovered his greatness. > > I post my material to this list to stir up people. No one has accomplis= hed what I have in so short a time both in regards to the production of m= y own work and to the promotion of other writers. > > Now I have to get back to my important work while most people are proba= bly watching TV. > > August Highland > btw > crag hill is also a writer to take very seriously - jeff harrison too. = keep your eyes on them. also look at the writer in the new mini-MAG that = just came out. These are 40 writers from all around the world. New York i= s like a old west ghost town in comparison to the writers i publish in th= e MAG and mini-MAG. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kirby Olson > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 2:34 PM > Subject: Re: rumsfeld and self-glorification > > August, this is the first input I've gotten from you that I myself ha= ve understood. I am not sure how Rumsfeld is not a boxer, or whatever, b= ut I guess the world of letters can stretch to the military but not to bo= xers, who are just goofing around when they are not biting other boxers' = ears. I wasn't sure if I understood that! > > It's ok to glorify yourself I think, at least in art, and it is ok to= form a nation-state and try to take over your art, too. I only wish tha= t Lutheran surrealism could accomplish this. Every day I wake up and rea= ch for the headlines, but it's the ketchup king and the dodo from Dallas,= and not Luther and Breton holding hands and skipping down the wedding ai= sle. > > We must live in hope. > > Best, > > Kirby > > August Highland wrote: > > > I understand Kirby Olson's writing about self-glorification. I don'= t think Rumsfeld is self-glorifying though. He is selfless. A selfless wo= rker. Boxers are not men whom I want to emulate and boxing is not a profe= ssion I want to compare the world of letters too. I think that John Cage'= s reaction at Naropa is funnier than his Silence piece. > > > > Self-glorification worked in letters when letters was still "un-enl= ightened". There are still poets today who self-glorify their gender-preo= ccupations or their other preoccupations. Even poets who use markhov chai= ns in their poetry. They are "Cyber-confessionalists" though they call th= emselves "codeworkers". But they are having a temper-tantrum and a self-g= lorification episode just as much as eminem has his. > > > > I don't agree with Olson's collective/cooperative idea. Or clumps e= ither. > > > > Great writers and artists do arrive solo with some association with= groups, but not to a very large degree. Groups like the Language Poets f= or example, are like tiny political parties that don't stand a chance, li= ke Howard Dean. They are usually comprised of sour-grape people with a co= uple of pastors and a parish. > > > > The greats do arrive solo. I know who the living greats are today. = It's very easy for me to spot them out. I have an instinct for it. I know= who the major and minor writers are. I know the difference between these= writers and the "beaurocratic" types. I think we all know in our hearts = who the major and minor writers and who the "beaurocratic" writers are. > > > > Augie > > btw: > > My comments about Rumsfeld was not a joke and he is a VERY personal= hero. So is Bill Gates and Arnold Schwarzenegger and Norman Schwarzkopf,= Bill Clinton. > > > > One person who is not a hero is Andy Warhol. His "mystique" is as "= self-glorifying" as a Dennis Rodman. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:34:18 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: The Mouth Considered As Two Other Ghosts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed astonishment in the first place blue-dotted, Virginia, to find your good shoes in the limelight handshakes can't get more wrong anymore, handspikes green as the sun set dead to rights (lunar cheese solar as myths pretty as you please) are adjudged as being pretty peachy, pretty plum, pretty cherry courtesy cannot leave the circle, as set down in grimoires, so those outside this poem can only demand, not beseech, a book containing the classic Fitz-James O'Brian story "Where Are Your Shoes?" in either tone, your business Virginia, of arranging facts meets with a dumb thankfulness hearts gone smoothfaced with handsprings, while "The Mouth Considered As Two Other Ghosts" obtains, Virginia, far more satisfactory results _________________________________________________________________ Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage – 4 plans to choose from! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:35:35 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Of The Two Ways Of Opening The Mouth Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed were you a spider reading this poem you'd say what does this fly mean does having a mermaid live here mean calmer tones, what does this fly mean wind keeps flickering spider vitals disappear ignorant at length gusts shut out fire tiny learned speech won out, or won a vertical plush tiger its all-fours solution larger than titans _________________________________________________________________ Create a Job Alert on MSN Careers and enter for a chance to win $1000! http://msn.careerbuilder.com/promo/kaday.htm?siteid=CBMSN_1K&sc_extcmp=JS_JASweep_MSNHotm2 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:38:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: clarification on Asian American Writers Workshop In-Reply-To: <17013328.1078671750@[192.168.1.47]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The Workshop closed its physical space recently because of water damage in the building--the organization is still very much alive and functioning--check out the website at www.aaww.org--deadline for submitting works for Asian American Literary Awards is 4.15.04--guidelines on the website. ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 23:47:43 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Re: highland and self-glorification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Honestly, you children. I was told a marvellous joke today by a non-poet friend. It goes like this: a woman goes to a butcher's shop in search of a marvellous treat for her husband's sixtieth birthday party. 'What he wants', she explains, 'is the most expensive food item you have - money is no object.'. The butcher ponders her for a moment and then says: 'Well, it's brains'. 'Brains', she says 'how much do they cost?'. 'Well,' he says, looking under the counter, 'I can give you one English poundsworth per Imperial measure per pound, that is £'s per lbs, for politician's brains.' 'H'm,' she says, ' that doesn't sound very expensive.' The butcher gains confidence - 'I can do you engineer's brains at £2000 per lb.'. 'That sounds better,' says the woman, 'but do you do anything more expensive? My husband wants the best, the costliest. What is the most expensive you have' 'Ok' says the butcher, reluctantly realising there is a real sale on, he's a capitalist but has always felt slightly guilty about it: 'There's poets brains'. 'How much?' says the woman. '£2,000,000 per lb.' 'What' says the woman 'how come so much?' The butcher looks at her. 'Do you realise' he says' just how many poets we have to kill to find a pound of brain cells?'. Best Dave David Bircumshaw Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet & Painting Without Numbers http://www.chidesalphabet.org.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 18:58:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Jezebel Reminder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please forward to your friends I'll be performing poetry and improvised laptop-based music with Adam Kendall (we're on towards the middle of the evening and they say HBO plus a documentary film crew will be there--so come join in the festivities) Monday March 8th at Jezebel Women Multimedia Artists at Galapagos chiaki with bubblyfish Wanda Phipps with Adam Kendall Kaesha KVK Miixxy DJ Honeychild Come for the Gear Girls, Stay for the Burlesque 7 to 9 PM $5 cover Galapagos Art Space 70 North 6 Street Williamsburg, Brooklyn, NY http://www.miixxy.com/jezebel http://www.galapagosartspace.com miixxy@miixxy.com 718.384.4586 Jezebel **second Monday of the month at Galapagos** Coming April 12 and May 10 Check website for lineup -- Wanda Phipps Hey, don't forget to check out my website MIND HONEY http://users.rcn.com/wanda.interport (and if you have already try it again) poetry, music and more! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:20:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anastasios@LOSTBAKLAVA.COM Subject: Fwd: Re: Haiti, Bush and on and on... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ----- Forwarded message from anastasios@lostbaklava.com ----- Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:17:43 -0800 From: anastasios@lostbaklava.com Reply-To: anastasios@lostbaklava.com Subject: Re: Haiti, Bush and on and on... To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Kirby, we have a colicky 8-week old screaming his head off, and I cannot get into a protracted debate with you like we did over on Aaron's list. Here's where we differ. You have faith that a US militaristic/diplomatic intervention will do good there. You seem to think that Aristide had to play with US corporations and that all Haitian wealth is corrupt. I know a good number of Haitian people who could be considered wealthy but were also very large supporters of Aristide, Lavalas, and long time populists who have worked through their lives to fight the deep seated corruption in Haiti. You think that the US will improve the literacy rate in Haiti when GWB has gutted Leave No Child Behind? You think that the US will improve the HIV problem in Haiti when Bush wanted to kill his AIDS bill the day after he proposed it in his State of the Union? The first installment of $285M of that $15B was decided upon this past week -- nearly 13 months after the fact. It will be going towards abstention programs and other issues, but it cannot be used to buy cheaper generic AIDS medicines. In short, our money which will go to Africa's AIDS sufferers must be used to enrich GWB's friends on the pharmaceutical boards. And, you and I can go on for hours and hours about this. I would have liked to have seen an international peacekeeping force go in before the Haitian situation reached it's tipping point in order to keep a democratically elected government in place. Your Lutheran Dadaism seems to fall on the side of good faith. In the face of overwhelming evidence, you seem to think that US government is overwhelmingly good. In some ways, you position is downright Marxian but you substitute US government for individuals. You will rebut, but I cannot. There's too much to deal with right now to be able to get into this debate right now. I average 1.5 hours of sleep per night, and I can barely keep it together. We disagree on our starting points. You seem to believe that the US will do some good in Haiti, but I do not believe the people of Haiti will benefit from Aristide's removal or -- let's get honest with this thing. Let's call a spade a spade, eh? From this US backed coup. --Ak Quoting Kirby Olson : > Anastasios, the situation in Haiti is bizarre, and it's clear that our > administration let Aristide crumble. But are you saying that you want a > U.S. > military intervention? > > It's the only thing that could have saved him. > > Exactly what is going on there is still unknown. It is quite clear that > Aristide was not playing ball with the business elite, and they wanted him > out. > > But how do you think Haiti could ever turn its fate around? I'd like to > deal > with the larger issues not just of who is immediately responsible for this > atrocious turn of events, but what solution could possibly be found. Very > high > illiteracy, very high AIDS rate, the top soil is disappearing at an amazing > rate, an almost totally corrupt upper class, a political system that has > seemingly never worked, an endemic religious culture that is completely > predatory and vicious beyond belief -- zombification -- which turns a person > into a member of the living dead, mostly foreign-owned businesses that pay > no > taxes but pay bribes to the leadership. How can anything change when so > much > is against this country? The country has to be totally redesigned from the > ground up if it is going to function. The vast majority of the peopl of > Haiti > are descendents of the former nation of Dahomey, which was itself no picnic. > Mountains of skulls made the superstructure of one ancient palace, and the > same > voodoo business, the same gods, are still in place there. > > There is the probability or at least possibility that 100 years of US and > French embargo more or less destroyed Haiti's capability of becoming one of > the > brighter nations of the Caribbean. What was done to Germany accomplished > that > in a couple of decades after WWI, and perhaps this is part of it. But I > wonder > what's to be done, and why what is done there is always already a disaster. > The other half of the island is no picnic either but by comparison to Haiti > it's quite functional. > > But Anastasios -- what you seem to be arguing is for military intervention, > and > your links were also seemingly full of people who really wanted a military > intervention. The alternative to that, was doing nothing, and letting > Aristide > get slaughtered. The US seems to have at least saved Aristide. Do Bush and > his people intend to put him back in after brokering another United Nations > type of coalition, which is what everybody on the left seemed to want in > Iraq? > > Meanwhile, a lot of necks are going to find a machete. And in this > morning's > paper, it said that BABY DOC DUVALIER yearns to return to Haiti from his > exile > in Miami. Just as Idi Amin no doubted yearned to get back in the saddle in > Uganda. Short of a military intervention, this is never going to happen. > And > it would have to be a military intervention followed by thirty or forty > years > of permanent peacekeeping, with educational initiatives, and such massive > changes that probably no relativist would be able to accept it. > > -- Kirby > > anastasios@LOSTBAKLAVA.COM wrote: > > > http://narcosphere.narconews.com/story/2004/3/6/222838/8700#1 > > > > Bush, Haiti & Venezuela: A Children's Tale > > > > By Charlie Hardy, > > Posted on Sat Mar 6th, 2004 at 10:28:38 PM EST > > > > CARACAS, VENEZUELA, MARCH 6, 2004: There are > three > > very short words in Venezuela that often provoke smiles when they are > > spoken: "No fui yo!" (It wasn't I). They are heard when someone releases > > gases from their stomach and doesn't want to own up to it. > > > > The March 1 edition of the Caracas daily, Ultimas Noticias, has a photo > of > > the ambassador of the United States to Haiti, Brian Foley, with his hands > > open and an interesting look on his face. I cannot see the words that are > > coming out of his mouth but "no fui yo" would seem very suitable for the > > moment. And he would be speaking the truth. He is only a part of the > > machine that crushed Jean-Bertrand Aristide.[...] > ----- End forwarded message ----- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:04:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: NEW LISTERV POLICY FOR FLAMING | PLEASE READ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I'm not entirely clear about why the revised policy is necessary, as opposed to stricter enforecement of the existing policy -- but then, there may be things I am not aware of, as I have a tendency to delete messages that appear to be flames without reading all the way through them -- but I worry about an absolute ban on any ad hominem argument about any person, on or off the list -- Not that I favor ad hominem, but I worry that it may some times be in the eye of the beholder . . . and I really worry about a policy banning anything taken as a personal insult to anybody anywhere (and does this include historical figures? Can I insult Vachel Lindsay?) On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 15:02:30 +0000, Poetics List Administration wrote: > Dear list-members, > > In light of the increasing number of unacceptable *personal* attacks that > have been posted on the listserv over the last six to eight months the > listserv policy for flaming has been changed. > > For the past couple of years we have made it clear in the welcome message > that flaming is not tolerated on the list and, to ensure that all > subscribers are clear about what flaming is and why we don't do it, it was > defined as any post which attacks "fellow listees or the list owners, also > messages designed to 'waste bandwidth' or cause the list to reach its daily > limit". Flaming is now defined as any post that resembles a personal > attack or personal insult to anyone--subscriber or not--in any way at all. > This of course includes ad hominem arguments in which the person rather > than their work is attacked--in other words while critique of a person's > work is welcome(critical inquiry is one of the main functions of the list), > this critique cannot extend to a critique or criticism of the person. > > I think most would agree that we cannot risk losing the listserv as a > productive communal space for discussion and announcements; as such, > subscribers who do not follow listserv policy on flaming will first receive > a warning from the listserv moderator and should they fail to follow policy > again they will immediately be placed on review. > > These changes should not be surprising or oppressive in any way--they're > simply rules of decency and respect that ought to be extended to all at all > times. > > If any of this is unclear in any way please do feel free to contact me. > > All best, > Lori Emerson > listserv moderator > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:34:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: NEW LISTERV POLICY FOR FLAMING | PLEASE READ Comments: cc: Daniel Zimmerman MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Aldon Neilson writes, anent Lori's new policy on flaming: Can I insult Vachel Lindsay? (What: & have the webmaster cast you "down, down with the Devil"?) I agree with you, Aldon, that Lori's strictures--though born, no doubt, of laudable impulses--may in pratice go too far in the direction of thought-policing. Surely, viciousness has no place in civil discourse, but why ban the jibe, the snide remark, the blaming by faint praise, the laugh at the laughable? In a medium so deaf to irony, many still attempt it; should they languish in the gulag of "review"? (Think: Lenny Bruce.) In an art that spawns such threads as the present one on "self-glorification," and which in some quarters leads writers to strive for an unmistakably personal "voice," it may often prove difficult to tell "the dancer from the dance" and thus to distinguish an attack on the work from one on the person. But does thinning of the skin produce osteoporosis of the backbone? Shouting matches, of course, can quickly grow tedious, as can the tedious cavilling of 'gotcha' logicians that periodically herpifies various lists to which I subscribe. Still, a preemptive 'three monkeys' defense against such transgressions seems largely indefensible. Daniel Zimmerman Manville, NJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "ALDON L NIELSEN" To: Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:04 PM Subject: Re: NEW LISTERV POLICY FOR FLAMING | PLEASE READ > I'm not entirely clear about why the revised policy is necessary, as opposed to > stricter enforecement of the existing policy -- but then, there may be things I > am not aware of, as I have a tendency to delete messages that appear to be > flames without reading all the way through them -- > > but I worry about an absolute ban on any ad hominem argument about any person, > on or off the list -- Not that I favor ad hominem, but I worry that it may some > times be in the eye of the beholder . . . and I really worry about a policy > banning anything taken as a personal insult to anybody anywhere (and does this > include historical figures? Can I insult Vachel Lindsay?) > > On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 15:02:30 +0000, Poetics List Administration wrote: > > > Dear list-members, > > > > In light of the increasing number of unacceptable *personal* attacks that > > have been posted on the listserv over the last six to eight months the > > listserv policy for flaming has been changed. > > > > For the past couple of years we have made it clear in the welcome message > > that flaming is not tolerated on the list and, to ensure that all > > subscribers are clear about what flaming is and why we don't do it, it was > > defined as any post which attacks "fellow listees or the list owners, also > > messages designed to 'waste bandwidth' or cause the list to reach its daily > > limit". Flaming is now defined as any post that resembles a personal > > attack or personal insult to anyone--subscriber or not--in any way at all. > > This of course includes ad hominem arguments in which the person rather > > than their work is attacked--in other words while critique of a person's > > work is welcome(critical inquiry is one of the main functions of the list), > > this critique cannot extend to a critique or criticism of the person. > > > > I think most would agree that we cannot risk losing the listserv as a > > productive communal space for discussion and announcements; as such, > > subscribers who do not follow listserv policy on flaming will first receive > > a warning from the listserv moderator and should they fail to follow policy > > again they will immediately be placed on review. > > > > These changes should not be surprising or oppressive in any way--they're > > simply rules of decency and respect that ought to be extended to all at all > > times. > > > > If any of this is unclear in any way please do feel free to contact me. > > > > All best, > > Lori Emerson > > listserv moderator > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 00:44:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: ugly MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ugly you know who are you are i hate you i want to see you dead i want to spit on your grave you know who i am i know where you live i hate everyone around you i hate your parents and your children i hate your partner everyone i know wishes to see you dead no one wants to hear you any more we will gather and laugh on your grave ha ha ha ha ha hee hee hee hee hee you know who are i hate want to see dead spit on your grave am where live everyone around parents and children partner wishes no one wants hear any more we will gather laugh ha hee you know who you are know i hate want to i see want dead see spit to on spit your on grave your am know where live know everyone around i parents your and parents children your partner wishes wishes no no one one wants wants hear hear any any more more we we will will gather gather laugh laugh ha hee you are know you who know are who i you hate i want i to want see to dead you spit to on spit your on grave your am i where know live you everyone hate around everyone parents your and parents children your partner your wishes know no more one no wants one hear to any you more any we grave will we gather will laugh and ha ha hee hee __ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 00:57:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: Re: projects? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >hey all, i'm feeling the need to hear what my colleagues are up to. >what are your current projects large and small, poetic and >adjacently-poetic? > --Trying to finish (well, start!) silk-screening the covers to the new Braincase chapbooks (David Perry: new years; Jim Behrle: (purple) notebook of the lake; Eric Baus: Something else the music was) in time fr the NYC reading --working on a bunch of reviews --and a new manuscript project: 100 10-line poems in 100 days here are a few: Downing 3/4/04 Lighting the parking lot Day fell to quiet rooftop men stretching copper Residual truth was frightening rain & covered us It was deafening to drive like that Through sincerity, its armored trees & the sad insects We nailed leaves to the waiting room wall On whose watch animals evaporate I swear reception hour stunned A reverence for original noise Called this dance making my legs go Custodial 3/5/04 Not a door’s shadow but the shadow of a door Diligence is a mechanized vocabulary A handprint on glass, sky full of factual inaccuracies We were clouded then soft Cared about the occupation dropped to care The shadow was crazy different Exuberance I won’t name your flowing hate a simple ego Every place is down here Transparent mites cover the page covering us Is this learning hunger a house Pianoing 3/6/04 Gimme gimme pelican architecture The shape of the forest is not the forest Ruined as a thin river in a photograph Mistaken for a painting of your face Happy ink unabridged us a machine Things happen in lines, windows, flakes A bit of ivy slows a yellow wall A signature a walking bird makes music of To keep repeating with one color its name Yellow hammer yellow hammer yellow hammer _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 00:27:27 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kodeli1 Subject: Noah's Projects Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Noah, I enjoyed the 10 line poems you posted, and I'm curious about your 100 poems in 100 days project--I've tried similar projects, and they always fizzle. Are you using any particular generation, revision or cut-up strategies--or any other self-imposed strictures? I'd love to hear a little more about it. Feel free to backchannel, if you'd prefer. (By the way, we haven't met but I'm a co-editor for Near South, which had the privilege of publishing some of your frank and charming frequencies last year.) thanks much, Kristy Odelius kodeli1@uic.edu >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Original Message From UB Poetics discussion group =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>hey all, i'm feeling the need to hear what my colleagues are up to. >>what are your current projects large and small, poetic and >>adjacently-poetic? >> > >--Trying to finish (well, start!) silk-screening the covers to the new >Braincase chapbooks (David Perry: new years; Jim Behrle: (purple) notebook >of the lake; Eric Baus: Something else the music was) in time fr the NYC >reading >--working on a bunch of reviews >--and a new manuscript project: 100 10-line poems in 100 days >here are a few: > > >Downing 3/4/04 > >Lighting the parking lot >Day fell to quiet rooftop men stretching copper >Residual truth was frightening rain & covered us >It was deafening to drive like that >Through sincerity, its armored trees & the sad insects >We nailed leaves to the waiting room wall >On whose watch animals evaporate >I swear reception hour stunned >A reverence for original noise >Called this dance making my legs go > > >Custodial 3/5/04 > >Not a door's shadow but the shadow of a door >Diligence is a mechanized vocabulary >A handprint on glass, sky full of factual inaccuracies >We were clouded then soft >Cared about the occupation dropped to care >The shadow was crazy different >Exuberance I won't name your flowing hate a simple ego >Every place is down here >Transparent mites cover the page covering us >Is this learning hunger a house > > >Pianoing 3/6/04 > >Gimme gimme pelican architecture >The shape of the forest is not the forest >Ruined as a thin river in a photograph >Mistaken for a painting of your face >Happy ink unabridged us a machine >Things happen in lines, windows, flakes >A bit of ivy slows a yellow wall >A signature a walking bird makes music of >To keep repeating with one color its name >Yellow hammer yellow hammer yellow hammer > >_________________________________________________________________ >FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! >http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 01:30:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Re: projects? In-Reply-To: <1078689925.404b80852c3c9@mail1.buffalo.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 3/7/04 4:05 PM, Poetics List Administration at poetics@BUFFALO.EDU wrote: > hey all, i'm feeling the need to hear what my colleagues are up to. > what are your current projects large and small, poetic and > adjacently-poetic? hey maria, i know you, and some others, know of the many postcard projects i've done with sean cole, the two most recent of those being this past october, when we each mailed one another a posctard a day for the entire month. i also used a different piece of cardboard for each of the first 30 days of the project, everything from a coltrane lp back (to "my favorite things"), a box from pair of donna karan boots, even an immodium box i found in the trash at my building. in december sean did his third straight december project, sending me a postcard a day for the entire month. and these will be made into the first boog single author book, due, u guessed it, this coming december. last month, gina myers and i emailed each other a letter a day for the entire month, her usually writing in afternoons and early evenings, and me replying late at night, ending up with 58 letters in all, including two we wrote on leap year day, and put into our The February Project book, in time for a reading later that day. For this month, march, i wanted to continue my usual nighttime writing, doing so with no constraints. But then my mom got sick and i started writing these one thought short poems that begin with dear mom, where i take myself as far away from the poem as possible, other than being the observer reporting the news/poem. also, i work with the poet erica kaufman, and we're planning on collaborating on poems over yahoo messenger, and then editing them during lunch. and that's my me as poet projects. there are always the boog projects: each month an issue of boog city, as we gear up toward our Republican National Convention coverage for the august and september issues of the paper. new boog reader pamphlet from Jordan Davis. the d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press in america series finishes its first season in july, with readings the next few months by Braincase Press (Northampton, Mass.), Oasis Press (Athens, Ohio), Combo (Providence, Rhode Island), and Talonbooks (Vancouver, British Columbia). And we've reupped the series for a second year, and i have been booking non-ny small presses through july 2005, including firm commitments already from Conundrum (Chicago), Dissociated Writers Project (Chicago), and Ambit (Baltimore), and tentative ones from a few killer presses out west that i can't divulge as yet. still doing our perfect album shows, with Carole King's Tapestry live on April 30 at Sidewalk, 20th anniversary of Purple Rain live (followed by the film) on June 5 or 12 at Bowery Poetry Club, second two elliot smith records live at boog 13th anniversary party in august, pretenders learning to crawl in october, and, in december, 25th anniversary of pink floyd's the wall live (followed by the film). i think that's it, other than the occasional instant pub i haven't thought of yet or secret reading in my apartment. best, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcity.blog-city.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 02:46:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: beautiful MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII beautiful i'm sorry i didn't mean that that was awful to say i think you're beautiful and we all love you everyone tells me they love you i can't believe i said that i love everyone and i don't know where you live you might not even have children you might not even have parents please forgive me wah wah wah wah wah wah i'm sorry i didn't mean that was awful to say think you're beautiful and we all love you everyone tells me they can't believe said don't know where live might not even have children parents please forgive wah i'm sorry i i'm didn't sorry mean i that didn't was awful to that say was think you're you're beautiful beautiful and and we we all all love love you you i everyone tells me everyone they tells can't believe i said believe don't where know you where live live love might not you even might have not children even parents even please forgive wah i'm that sorry i'm i sorry didn't i mean didn't that mean was that awful was to awful say to think i you're think beautiful you're and beautiful we and all we love all you love everyone you tells everyone me tells they me can't i believe can't said i don't i know don't where know live you might you not might even not have even children have parents have please me forgive please wah wah __ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 05:06:28 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Flame..Flame...Flame... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I missed A. Highland's post the first time round.. i was too busy reading all the book pub..blog links.. mag openings...obits... i found 0 offensive in it.. except i guess he should have kept Ron's wife out if it...she's a civilian... only in the small spell that s-m-a-l-l po woild do we have to disassociate a poet from his work.. this creates epistimelogical problems all its own... and a mighty fine mess you got us into Ollie.. it would take a fool or a critic not to notice at for ex...the Sillimann/ McClure thang... the 'look' of the poet.. physical appearance is she/he hot or not... is the most determinitive factor of success in po Woild & what some call the real & others the reel world can i flame meself.. Nudel you're a f....king moron...besides writing drivel..and your mama she's "that's your mother" too often the unknown young or awful poet has no platform to voice his anger, discontent, rage.. if you want to play with the big boys or be famuz take the hits.. outside libel... flame on...sweet.. the unstEin...DRN.. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:53:27 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cyrill Duneau Subject: modern corrosion Comments: To: Eric Byrne , "CYBERMIND@LISTSERV.AOL.COM" , delbarre , "mayakovsky@yahoogroups.com" , Situationist , john younge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Acid drizzles The Websense category "Illegal or Questionable" is filtered. Downstairs once once set) chipset lifetime his radical by six Sound the most iconic and influential murderer plastic (pitch control/violent turgid/) without success Reflective visuals color-splashed they are all sipping their Molotov coktails in tar-stained Victorian suits 1. (unknown) drones with the ethereal arctic subglacial pulsating "Llénate de mí ansíame, agótame, viérteme, sacrifícame" coming from the choir - a skinny evil pack of moon-faced geriatric ladies The caricature hits! Brown sugar slashes! I am the Horn! Big passerines! shredding embodiments there are no folders in your trash message trouble holding it back but being the obedient then keep you head I can’t explain ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 08:12:13 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Silliman's Blog: A test of poetry Comments: To: WOM-PO , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, whpoets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT TOPICS: A test of poetry: anonymity & context Woundwood: The joy of a new book Chris Stroffolino on The Dreamers (Medium Cool) Sunday Morning Anthology: Nine poets in Somerville, MA Bill Bathurst & Richard Brautigan - Deciding to stop The Philadelphia Progressive Poetry Calendar The Dissociated Writing Project Gender & the problem of the unmarked case (The Dreamers, continued) Bertolucci's The Dreamers - The film you make vs. the one you think you're making A memorial to Gil Ott Kathleen Fraser Coupling Categories Forced into Discreteness Kathleen Fraser Discrete Categories Forced into Coupling http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 05:55:53 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ram Devineni Subject: The Sopranos, Mo Rocca, Ponsot, Brock-Broido, Torres, ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Friends: I hope you can make either of these two wonderful events. Cheers, Ram Devineni Rattapallax Come and Celebrate the Community~Word Project's 4th Annual Spring Benefit "My Voice Wide As The Sun" Performances and Silent Art Auction Monday, March 15, 2004 ~ 6:00 to 8:30pm National Arts Club ~ 15 Gramercy Park South ~ New York City For tickets, please call (212) 962-3820 http://www.communitywordproject.org/ A READING by acclaimed writers Marie Ponsot & Edwin Torres PERFORMANCE by Community~Word Project students RECITING of student Community~Poems by Edie Falco, The Sopranos Beth Fertig, WNYC & NPR Michael Imperioli, The Sopranos Robert S. Miller, Hyperion Books Mo Rocca, The Today Show & The Daily Show SILENT AUCTION including original artwork inspired by students' poetry Featuring artwork by Kiki Smith, Lizzie Himmel, Véronique Vial & Frits Berends amongst other established and emerging artists MURALS created by Community~Word students MUSIC by violinist Daniel Bernard Roumain performing original work blending classical and hip-hop idioms and styles Tickets: $100 Individual, $250 Friends Tickets Wine and light hors d'oeuvres will be served ------------------- LYRIC RECOVERY: On Monday, March 22, at 7:30 p.m., Lyric Recovery(tm) Festival returns to exquisite Weill Recital Hall at Carnegie Hall, with feature Lucie Brock-Broido (Trouble in Mind, just released from Knopf and reviewed in the Sunday New York Times (2/29): "poems of gorgeous austerity"), session essayist Alfred Corn (Contradictions, Copper Canyon 2002), premieres of work by poet-librettist Annie Finch (Calendars, Tupelo 2003) set by Kevin Warren, and final-round judge Glyn Maxwell (The Nerve, Houghton 2003). Program performers ('Integrity of the Fragment') will include Gilbert High (baritone), Ellen Sussman (mezzo soprano), Liz Inglis (soprano), Karen Grahn (soprano), Arielle Levioff (piano), Brant Lyon (piano), George Wallace, Stephen Massimilla, Robert Scott, Tom Hair, Kathleen Bishop, Pati Sands, Ellen Peckham, Gretl Claggett, Nicholas Johnson, and Maureen Holm. Complete program details appear on the event website at lyricrecovery.org. Finalist-round poems blind-selected by Glyn Maxwell will be announced at the event and their authors (or designees) will read for a top prize of $1000 and other distinctions. In keeping with its mission, LyR's award selection criteria are: reach, craft, content, and musicality. Semifinalist titles were blind-selected in a public reading at Poets House on Feb. 21. Semifinalist and finalist poems will appear in the 2004 Headwaters print anthology. Tickets ranging from prime orchestra to balcony ($25, $22, $20, $16) may be ordered from Lyric Recovery, Ltd. (checks and money orders only) at Box 1141, Cath. Sta., NYC 10025. (Seniors and students receive $3 discount.) Reservations and questions to: lyricrecovery@aol.com (212) 864-2823, (212) 865-3443 or (212) 690-5602. Tickets are also available at the Carnegie box office or through Carnegie Charge (212) 247-7800 (surcharge applies). A pre-event reception in the Weill lounge is planned. For all other details and background, please see the event website at lyricrecovery.org. Email regarding book table space. ===== Please send future emails to devineni@rattapallax.com for press devineni@dialoguepoetry.org for UN program __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:40:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Re: NEW LISTSERV POLICY ON FLAMING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Aldon and Daniel, I see what you mean and of course I have no interest whatsoever in thought-policing--the trick always seems to be to come up with wording that's firm enough, tight enough to prevent any misunderstanding and in the interests of making myself clear I might have erred on the side of firm! But in the defense of over-the- top firmness, since it is impossible to "manage" the list, impossible to prevent flames from being sent out, the best I can do is to try to get people's attention with a little foot-stomping--too many plead ignorance about our policy on flaming. I have no problem with faulty logic, arguments with bad premises/conclusions, snideness or jibes (my personal favorites anyways) or with, I guess, insulting Vachel Lindsay--I do think that, as an example, some of the comments made about non-list subscriber Grolier book's Louisa Solano (insults made about her, her personality, and therefore her poor business skills) weren't necessary, were unkind and so unproductive and were of the same variety as so many other comments about subscribers that I've found upsetting (there are many more such examples from last Fall alone that you can read over in the archives). Usually these comments use the list as a forum for airing personal gripes or for some combination of personal gripe + dismissal of the person's work (ie Person x was mean/grumpy/arrogant to me and their work is not worth thinking/talking/writing about). I don't think it's too restrictive to ask subscribers to refrain from these kinds of comments, is it? Hope this is more clear! Best, Lori --On Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:04 PM -0500 ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > I'm not entirely clear about why the revised policy is necessary, as > opposed to stricter enforecement of the existing policy -- but then, > there may be things I am not aware of, as I have a tendency to delete > messages that appear to be flames without reading all the way through > them -- > > but I worry about an absolute ban on any ad hominem argument about any > person, on or off the list -- Not that I favor ad hominem, but I worry > that it may some times be in the eye of the beholder . . . and I really > worry about a policy banning anything taken as a personal insult to > anybody anywhere (and does this include historical figures? Can I insult > Vachel Lindsay?) > > On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 15:02:30 +0000, Poetics List Administration wrote: > >> Dear list-members, >> >> In light of the increasing number of unacceptable *personal* attacks that >> have been posted on the listserv over the last six to eight months the >> listserv policy for flaming has been changed. >> >> For the past couple of years we have made it clear in the welcome message >> that flaming is not tolerated on the list and, to ensure that all >> subscribers are clear about what flaming is and why we don't do it, it >> was defined as any post which attacks "fellow listees or the list >> owners, also messages designed to 'waste bandwidth' or cause the list to >> reach its daily limit". Flaming is now defined as any post that >> resembles a personal attack or personal insult to anyone-- subscriber or >> not--in any way at all. This of course includes ad hominem arguments in >> which the person rather than their work is attacked--in other words >> while critique of a person's work is welcome(critical inquiry is one of >> the main functions of the list), this critique cannot extend to a >> critique or criticism of the person. >> >> I think most would agree that we cannot risk losing the listserv as a >> productive communal space for discussion and announcements; as such, >> subscribers who do not follow listserv policy on flaming will first >> receive a warning from the listserv moderator and should they fail to >> follow policy again they will immediately be placed on review. >> >> These changes should not be surprising or oppressive in any way-- they're >> simply rules of decency and respect that ought to be extended to all at >> all times. >> >> If any of this is unclear in any way please do feel free to contact me. >> >> All best, >> Lori Emerson >> listserv moderator >> >> > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:31:40 -0500 Reply-To: Mike Kelleher Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Kelleher Organization: Just Buffalo Literary Center Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 3-8-04 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THIS WEEK IN THE HIBISCUS ROOM The Hibiscus Room at Just Buffalo is located in the Tri-Main Center, 2495, Main St., Ste 512 Erotica An Open Reading Friday, March 12, 7:30 p.m. $4, $3 students/seniors, $2 members Just Buffalo curator, Karen Lewis, continues her Writer's Group series, presenting an open Erotica Reading. Writer's groups are encouraged to experiment with erotic writing, and to bring their "sexperiments" to this open reading. All are welcome to attend and present short erotic works. NEXT UP: Ammiel Alcalay & Nick Lawrence Wednesday, March 24, 8 p.m., $4, $3 students/seniors, $2 members Ammiel Alcalay is a poet, translator, critic and scholar. His latest work, from the warring factions (Beyond Baroque, 2002), is a book length poem dedicated to the Bosnian town of Srebrenica. Nick Lawrence's poetry and prose have appeared in Grand Street, Talisman, Object, Lyric&, Mirage, and ecopoetics, among other magazines. He is the author of the chapbooks: Timeserver and Decolonizing the Child. OPEN READINGS, Hosted by Livio Farallo Rosemary Kothe and Joe Nickell Wednesday, March 10, 7 P.M.,Center for Inquiry, 1310 Sweet Home Road, Amherst, NY 10 slots for readers. Sign up at 6:45. First come, first serve. Free. WORKSHOPS BEGINNING THIS WEEK BOTH OF THESE WORKSHOPS HAVE BEEN POSTPONED A WEEK, SO YOU HAVEN'T MISSED ANYTHING: So You Say You Can't Write Poetry? with Marj Hahne Four Wednesdays, March 10, 17, 24, 31, 7 - 9 p.m.; $100, $85 for members As children we were natural poets, but by adulthood, we likely suppressed some of the sensibilities that enliven our reading and writing of poetry: (1) a fascination with wordplay and the infinite possibilities of language, (2) an alert sensory perception, (3) recognition and acceptance of our unique voice, and (4) patience with our learning process. Designed for the beginning or tentative poet (although practiced poets will find it enriching, too!), this educational and fun workshop will present accessible poetic forms, sample poems, and prompts as structures that allow for the possibility of poetry as we uncover or recover our individual poetic voices. We will create a safe space for generating lots of original writing while attending to the particulars of craft: language choices, the poem's shape, and various poetic devices. Marj Hahne is a poet and teaching artist from New York City. Her work has appeared in Painted Bride Quarterly, Mad Poets Reviews, La Petite Zine, Rogue Scholars, & New England Writer's Network. She also has a CD entitled, notspeak. How to Write and Sell Essays, Short Stories, Travel and Feature Articles with Kathryn Radeff 4 Saturdays, March 13, 20, 27, and April 3 10-12 a.m. $135, $110 for members. Single class $35, $30 members The magazine field is overflowing with opportunity. With the right approach you can craft articles, sell and re-sell to worldwide publications. Open to everyone, this four-week special workshop focuses on the fundamentals editors are looking for and presents the secret to writing great marketing letters. Through in-class and at-home exercises, Kathryn Radeff provides a fun, effective, and motivational workshop designed to inspire the writer and develop creative confidence. The workshop also includes creative self-promotion methods and the business end of publishing. It is recommended that you purchase the four guidebooks from the "You Can Be A Working Writer" series at $5.95 each. March 6 Writing & Selling Personal Essays March 13 Writing & Selling Short Stories March 20 Writing & Selling Travel Articles March 27 Writing & Selling Feature Articles NEW WEBSITE Just Buffalo has a new website: http://www.justbuffalo.org. Just Buffalo Literary Events Workshops Writers in Education Program (under construction) Writer's Links (Writers Resources, Publications, Contests, Literary Centers) Membership Info Organization Info Please share this link with anyone you think might want it and feel free to link to it from your site. This site is still very much in process. We welcome feedback about the content of the site, as well as its userfriendliness. If you would like to add a publication, organization, contest, conference, resource, etc. to the list of writer links, please write Mike Kelleher (information below). JUST ANNOUNCED Neruda 's Birthday Party Reading Just Buffalo and White Pine Press celebrate the Centennial of the birth of the great Chilean poet, Pablo Neruda. Wednesday, March 31, 2003, at 7:30pm in the Hibiscus Room. Visiting poet John Brandi will discuss Neruda and read from work influenced by Neruda's poetry. Dennis Maloney, translator of three books of Neruda's poetry, will read from his translations and discuss Neruda's impact on the world of poetry. Bring you favorite Neruda poem to read. The Njozi/Just Buffalo SlamFest Weekend April 2, 7 p.m., Open Mic Jam with New York poets, $10 April 3, 2 p.m., Teen Poetry Slam, $5 April 3, 7 p.m., Invitational Slam, $10 Allen Hall University at Buffalo South Campus (Next to Park & Ride) Njozi Promotions in conjunction with Just Buffalo present the Njozi SlamFest Weekend. We will be kicking off "National Poetry Month" with a showcase that will not be forgotten in the near future. Poets representing New York City, Toronto, Canada; Cleveland, Ohio and Washington, D.C. Friday night will be an off the hook Open Mic Jam featuring Jive Poetic, Mahogany Browne and Brother Earl from New York City. Saturday afternoon, April 3 will be the Njozi Teen Poetry Slam! We will have Dee Jays, door prizes and a lot of fun. The main event, the Buffalo Invitational Slam, takes place at 8 p.m. on Saturday. The registration is $25 for performers. The Grand Prize is $500 in cash to the man or woman left standing after 3 rounds. Pre registration is a must so contact us ASAP. If you have any questions send an email to Njozi@hotmail.com This promises to be a very memorable event! POETRY CONTEST BOOMDAYS Celebration Poetry Contest. BOOMDAYS is a grassroots celebration of the advent of Spring, commencing with the lifting of the Lake Erie-Niagara River Ice Boom. It will be held on Friday, April 2 at The Pier from 4:00 PM to midnight. Contest Use the ice boom as a source of inspiration and write a poem about spring, celebrating our own "write" of passage. Prizes of $200, $150 and $100.00. Winning poems published in ArtVoice and displayed at the event. Adult winners must read their work at the BOOMDAYS kickoff event, April 2, 2004 at The Pier from 4:00 PM to midnight. Poems should be typed, single spaced, not exceeding one page. Submit only one poem, includeing name, address, telephone number. Deadline: March 15, 2004. Send to: BOOMDAYS, Just Buffalo Literary Center. 2495 Main Street, Suite 512 Buffalo, New York 14214 For further information about the contest, organizations, or BOOMDAYS events, go to www.boomdays.com. SPOKEN ARTS RADIO W/ Mary Van Vorst 6:35 and 8:35 a.m. Thursdays and 8:35 a.m. Sundays on WBFO 88.7 FM March 18 & 21 - SHARON OLDS Sharon Olds has been winning awards for poetry since her first book in 1980 Satan Says. She's now the author of seven books of poetry, and her work has appeared in The New Yorker, The Paris Review, and The Nation and Poetry. She's been awarded the Guggenheim Fellowship, and NEA grant, and served as New York State poet laureate. She teaches at NYU and helps run the workshop at Goldwater Hospital in New York. (She'll be in Buffalo 4/1/04 - a Canisius event.) April 1 & 4 - ED ROBERSON (In the Hibiscus Room) April 15 & 18 - YUSEF KOMUNYAKAA (Collaborations and Connections) April 29 & May 2 - SUSAN RICH (World of Voices) WORK*WRITE For better writing at work, turn to Just Buffalo. Today's workplace makes unprecedented demands to write and communicate effectively. Effective writing is one of the key components of workplace success, yet most people - from the reception desk to the executive suite - don't feel confident in their writing skills. Solid organizational writing means improved customer relations, fewer possibilities of legal liability and more efficient use of company time. Just Buffalo's instructors are working writers and professionals. Training is customized to your business needs and can be conducted on-site, off-site, or by email. For a brochure or more information, call Just Buffalo at 832-5400. IF ALL OF BUFFALO READ THE SAME BOOK JUST BUFFALO CHOOSES BOOKER PRIZE-WINNING NOVEL, THE GOD OF SMALL THINGS FOR 2004 IF ALL OF BUFFALO READ THE SAME BOOK BUFFALO - Just Buffalo Literary Center has chosen The God of Small Things, by Arundhati Roy, as the centerpiece of its 4th If All Buffalo Read The Same Book program, which will culminate in a two-day author's visit on September 8-9, 2004. The God of Small Things won the 1997 Booker Prize for literature, Great Britain's highest literary honor. Arundhati Roy became the first non-expatriate Indian author and the first Indian woman to win the award. The New York Times called the book "dazzling" and "remarkable," while the Washington post noted, "It's hard to avoid using words like 'splendid' and 'stunning' to describe this debut novel." Media, book clubs, organizations, educators, public officials and individuals who would like more information or a reader's guide, as well as those interested in sponsorship, can contact Just Buffalo at 832-5400 or by writing info@justbuffalo.org. Mike Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center 2495 Main St., Ste. 512 Buffalo, NY 14214 716.832.5400 716.832.5710 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk@justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:22:51 -0500 Reply-To: Millie Niss on eathlink Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss on eathlink Subject: Re: NEW LISTSERV POLICY ON FLAMING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I hope we can continue to insult Bush. He is a public figure and therefore legally it is not slander to criticize him. I actually thought the Grolier owner stuff was on-point and relevant. I didn't post in that thread, but I have run into that woman myself and she is definitely unpleasant. As the store is a major resource for poetry books, both for us to buy and eventually for us to sell books, discussion of the store is completely reasonable on a poets' list. My own experience was that she took one look at me and said "What are you doing in my store? You know, we only have *poetry*!" as if I didn't look the part of a poetry reader (maybe I'm too fat, or too female or something, or dresse dtoo conservatively...). Then when I bought Anne Tardos's _Uxudo_ which had just come out, she was all of a sudden friendly because I haad proven myself worthy by choosing an avant-garde experimental poet, one whom she knew personally, I found myself (when I used to be in an MFA program in Boston) going to the Coop or to the Harvard stor or Wordsworth's (which never had what I wanted) just because the staff were more friendly. Which is saying a lot, since the Coop is not exactly a friendly store! Also, I'd go to Cambridge in the ;ate evening after my evening class in Boston, and of course Grolier's is closed then. It keeps restricted, dainty (if that makes sense) hours, not violating any long-since-repealed blue laws. Millie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Poetics List Administration" To: Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 10:40 AM Subject: Re: NEW LISTSERV POLICY ON FLAMING > Dear Aldon and Daniel, I see what you mean and of course I have no > interest whatsoever in thought-policing--the trick always seems to be > to come up with wording that's firm enough, tight enough to prevent > any misunderstanding and in the interests of making myself clear I > might have erred on the side of firm! But in the defense of over-the- > top firmness, since it is impossible to "manage" the list, impossible > to prevent flames from being sent out, the best I can do is to try to > get people's attention with a little foot-stomping--too many plead > ignorance about our policy on flaming. > > I have no problem with faulty logic, arguments with bad > premises/conclusions, snideness or jibes (my personal favorites > anyways) or with, I guess, insulting Vachel Lindsay--I do think that, > as an example, some of the comments made about non-list subscriber > Grolier book's Louisa Solano (insults made about her, her personality, > and therefore her poor business skills) weren't necessary, were unkind > and so unproductive and were of the same variety as so many other > comments about subscribers that I've found upsetting (there are many > more such examples from last Fall alone that you can read over in the > archives). Usually these comments use the list as a forum for airing > personal gripes or for some combination of personal gripe + dismissal > of the person's work (ie Person x was mean/grumpy/arrogant to me and > their work is not worth thinking/talking/writing about). I don't > think it's too restrictive to ask subscribers to refrain from these > kinds of comments, is it? > > Hope this is more clear! > Best, Lori > > --On Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:04 PM -0500 ALDON L NIELSEN > wrote: > > > I'm not entirely clear about why the revised policy is necessary, as > > opposed to stricter enforecement of the existing policy -- but then, > > there may be things I am not aware of, as I have a tendency to delete > > messages that appear to be flames without reading all the way through > > them -- > > > > but I worry about an absolute ban on any ad hominem argument about > any > > person, on or off the list -- Not that I favor ad hominem, but I > worry > > that it may some times be in the eye of the beholder . . . and I > really > > worry about a policy banning anything taken as a personal insult to > > anybody anywhere (and does this include historical figures? Can I > insult > > Vachel Lindsay?) > > > > On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 15:02:30 +0000, Poetics List Administration > wrote: > > > >> Dear list-members, > >> > >> In light of the increasing number of unacceptable *personal* > attacks that > >> have been posted on the listserv over the last six to eight months > the > >> listserv policy for flaming has been changed. > >> > >> For the past couple of years we have made it clear in the welcome > message > >> that flaming is not tolerated on the list and, to ensure that all > >> subscribers are clear about what flaming is and why we don't do it, > it > >> was defined as any post which attacks "fellow listees or the list > >> owners, also messages designed to 'waste bandwidth' or cause the > list to > >> reach its daily limit". Flaming is now defined as any post that > >> resembles a personal attack or personal insult to anyone-- > subscriber or > >> not--in any way at all. This of course includes ad hominem > arguments in > >> which the person rather than their work is attacked--in other words > >> while critique of a person's work is welcome(critical inquiry is > one of > >> the main functions of the list), this critique cannot extend to a > >> critique or criticism of the person. > >> > >> I think most would agree that we cannot risk losing the listserv as > a > >> productive communal space for discussion and announcements; as such, > >> subscribers who do not follow listserv policy on flaming will first > >> receive a warning from the listserv moderator and should they fail > to > >> follow policy again they will immediately be placed on review. > >> > >> These changes should not be surprising or oppressive in any way-- > they're > >> simply rules of decency and respect that ought to be extended to > all at > >> all times. > >> > >> If any of this is unclear in any way please do feel free to contact > me. > >> > >> All best, > >> Lori Emerson > >> listserv moderator > >> > >> > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > >> > > > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > > --Emily Dickinson > > > > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > > Kelly Professor of American Literature > > The Pennsylvania State University > > 116 Burrowes > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > > > (814) 865-0091 > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:38:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: projects? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >>hey all, i'm feeling the need to hear what my colleagues are up to. >>what are your current projects large and small, poetic and >>adjacently-poetic? I am in the process of making a second revision to my travel book/memoir about baseball, untitled as yet because all the good baseball titles seem to have been used. But I have to stop to write an article about Vancouver for the weekend supplement of a Zurich newspaper. -- George Bowering Favors Truman over Dewey. 303 Fielden Ave. Port Colborne. ON, L3K 4T5 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:37:36 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christine Murray Subject: Clayton Eshleman's *Juniper Fuse* praised in The New Yorker MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Congratulations to Clayton Eshleman on this! http://www.newyorker.com/critics/briefly/?040315crbn_brieflynoted from The New Yorker's "Briefly Noted" section, March 15, 2004 "Juniper Fuse: Upper Paleolithic Imagination and the Construction of the Underworld, by Clayton Eshleman (Wesleyan; $29.95). This arresting diptych of verse and philosophical prose charts a twenty-five-year obsession with the prehistoric cave paintings of southwestern France. The region's enigmatic art work, dating from the Upper Paleolithic era, has been a constant muse for Eshleman, whose wildly discursive style mirrors the superimposed scenes of animal herds and shamanistic figures that populate the cave walls. Breathless accounts of cave exploration appear in counterpoint with poems in eerily primordial voices. Although his thesis that all art results from the separation anxiety between human and animal is unpersuasive, there is an impressive exuberance to his efforts to trace back to this common source everything from Greek myth to Allen Ginsberg. For Eshleman, it seems, the artist's imaginative predicament is something of a cave itself, both maze and refuge." Best Wishes, Chris Murray http://uta.edu/english/znine http://poetry_heat.typepad.com http://texfiles.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:59:55 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: NEW LISTSERV POLICY ON FLAMING Comments: To: Millie Niss on eathlink In-Reply-To: <01f601c40529$9b21fb30$423a4b43@ibmfb1014a> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 11:22 AM -0500 3/8/04, Millie Niss on eathlink wrote: >... Also, I'd >go to Cambridge in the ;ate evening after my evening class in Boston, and of >course Grolier's is closed then. It keeps restricted, dainty (if that makes >sense) hours, not violating any long-since-repealed blue laws. > >Millie this is a bit unfair; the store doesn't make enough $$ to pay for an extra employee to keep it open after hours. it's nothing to do with "daintiness" or blue-law compliance. in fact, those comments sound a little...dare i use the word sexist? -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:56:18 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: NEW LISTSERV POLICY ON FLAMING Comments: To: Millie Niss on eathlink In-Reply-To: <01f601c40529$9b21fb30$423a4b43@ibmfb1014a> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed As lot of us have stories about Louisa Solano of Grolier's sometime rudeness, but let's remember that she took over the store as a very young woman and has given her life to poetry in a way that very few of us have. Her business hours are dictated by her working conditions--she's been the whole show most of the time, and it's an exhausting job.. On my recent trip to Boston I went into Grolier's shortly before closing time. It was my first time there in probably 15 years. Louisa and I chatted briefly, and I mentioned that I had sold the store some copies of a magazine I did in the early seventies. She asked my name, and then said "Oh, Broadway Boogie! Black and white covers." That's worth something. Grolier's, in any case, may not be with us much longer. Its disappearance would be a major loss. Mark At 11:22 AM 3/8/2004 -0500, Millie Niss on eathlink wrote: >I hope we can continue to insult Bush. He is a public figure and therefore >legally it is not slander to criticize him. > >I actually thought the Grolier owner stuff was on-point and relevant. I >didn't post in that thread, but I have run into that woman myself and she is >definitely unpleasant. As the store is a major resource for poetry books, >both for us to buy and eventually for us to sell books, discussion of the >store is completely reasonable on a poets' list. > >My own experience was that she took one look at me and said "What are you >doing in my store? You know, we only have *poetry*!" as if I didn't look >the part of a poetry reader (maybe I'm too fat, or too female or something, >or dresse dtoo conservatively...). Then when I bought Anne Tardos's _Uxudo_ >which had just come out, she was all of a sudden friendly because I haad >proven myself worthy by choosing an avant-garde experimental poet, one whom >she knew personally, I found myself (when I used to be in an MFA program >in Boston) going to the Coop or to the Harvard stor or Wordsworth's (which >never had what I wanted) just because the staff were more friendly. Which >is saying a lot, since the Coop is not exactly a friendly store! Also, I'd >go to Cambridge in the ;ate evening after my evening class in Boston, and of >course Grolier's is closed then. It keeps restricted, dainty (if that makes >sense) hours, not violating any long-since-repealed blue laws. > >Millie >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Poetics List Administration" >To: >Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 10:40 AM >Subject: Re: NEW LISTSERV POLICY ON FLAMING > > > > Dear Aldon and Daniel, I see what you mean and of course I have no > > interest whatsoever in thought-policing--the trick always seems to be > > to come up with wording that's firm enough, tight enough to prevent > > any misunderstanding and in the interests of making myself clear I > > might have erred on the side of firm! But in the defense of over-the- > > top firmness, since it is impossible to "manage" the list, impossible > > to prevent flames from being sent out, the best I can do is to try to > > get people's attention with a little foot-stomping--too many plead > > ignorance about our policy on flaming. > > > > I have no problem with faulty logic, arguments with bad > > premises/conclusions, snideness or jibes (my personal favorites > > anyways) or with, I guess, insulting Vachel Lindsay--I do think that, > > as an example, some of the comments made about non-list subscriber > > Grolier book's Louisa Solano (insults made about her, her personality, > > and therefore her poor business skills) weren't necessary, were unkind > > and so unproductive and were of the same variety as so many other > > comments about subscribers that I've found upsetting (there are many > > more such examples from last Fall alone that you can read over in the > > archives). Usually these comments use the list as a forum for airing > > personal gripes or for some combination of personal gripe + dismissal > > of the person's work (ie Person x was mean/grumpy/arrogant to me and > > their work is not worth thinking/talking/writing about). I don't > > think it's too restrictive to ask subscribers to refrain from these > > kinds of comments, is it? > > > > Hope this is more clear! > > Best, Lori > > > > --On Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:04 PM -0500 ALDON L NIELSEN > > wrote: > > > > > I'm not entirely clear about why the revised policy is necessary, as > > > opposed to stricter enforecement of the existing policy -- but then, > > > there may be things I am not aware of, as I have a tendency to delete > > > messages that appear to be flames without reading all the way through > > > them -- > > > > > > but I worry about an absolute ban on any ad hominem argument about > > any > > > person, on or off the list -- Not that I favor ad hominem, but I > > worry > > > that it may some times be in the eye of the beholder . . . and I > > really > > > worry about a policy banning anything taken as a personal insult to > > > anybody anywhere (and does this include historical figures? Can I > > insult > > > Vachel Lindsay?) > > > > > > On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 15:02:30 +0000, Poetics List Administration > > wrote: > > > > > >> Dear list-members, > > >> > > >> In light of the increasing number of unacceptable *personal* > > attacks that > > >> have been posted on the listserv over the last six to eight months > > the > > >> listserv policy for flaming has been changed. > > >> > > >> For the past couple of years we have made it clear in the welcome > > message > > >> that flaming is not tolerated on the list and, to ensure that all > > >> subscribers are clear about what flaming is and why we don't do it, > > it > > >> was defined as any post which attacks "fellow listees or the list > > >> owners, also messages designed to 'waste bandwidth' or cause the > > list to > > >> reach its daily limit". Flaming is now defined as any post that > > >> resembles a personal attack or personal insult to anyone-- > > subscriber or > > >> not--in any way at all. This of course includes ad hominem > > arguments in > > >> which the person rather than their work is attacked--in other words > > >> while critique of a person's work is welcome(critical inquiry is > > one of > > >> the main functions of the list), this critique cannot extend to a > > >> critique or criticism of the person. > > >> > > >> I think most would agree that we cannot risk losing the listserv as > > a > > >> productive communal space for discussion and announcements; as such, > > >> subscribers who do not follow listserv policy on flaming will first > > >> receive a warning from the listserv moderator and should they fail > > to > > >> follow policy again they will immediately be placed on review. > > >> > > >> These changes should not be surprising or oppressive in any way-- > > they're > > >> simply rules of decency and respect that ought to be extended to > > all at > > >> all times. > > >> > > >> If any of this is unclear in any way please do feel free to contact > > me. > > >> > > >> All best, > > >> Lori Emerson > > >> listserv moderator > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > > > --Emily Dickinson > > > > > > > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > > > Kelly Professor of American Literature > > > The Pennsylvania State University > > > 116 Burrowes > > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > > > > > (814) 865-0091 > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:28:38 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Haiti, Bush and on and on... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Anastasios, a colicky baby comes before Haiti, in my book. Ok, and thanks for your very civil message. I may very well have a simplistic image of Haiti. Most of my data on Haiti comes via Marxists -- it's very hard to get other info, as nobody else seems to care. The Lutherans have a few missions there but you don't get country-wide reports on Haiti via our periodicals as you do for instance about Namibia (50% Lutheran, and growing). So I am glad to have you complicate the picture. I trust your data, because I don't think you have blinders on, and you even seem to have a sense of humor in spite of your problems with the baby. I wouldn't. I'm especially interested that there are fairly wealthy families in Haiti that aren't completely corrupt. From the rather Marxist literature I have read (I've also read books by former CIA spooks, and then older writing by US military staff stationed there in the earlier part of the century) you get the picture of a rather corrupt and almost monstrous elite, and then the poor suffering masses. All the stuff you're saying about Bush & co. does also make sense, I think. But I don't think the Republicans are as monstrous as others seem to think. Giuliani is Republican, but believes that gays should be able to get married, and have rights, and I think he's a decent man in many ways. No saint, but decent. And I understand that the crime rate going down in NYC is attributable to his draconian policies on even minor crimes. Perhaps there is a larger base of people to work with in Haiti than I had imagined, so your message actually gave me hope. Good luck with the baby -- the only thing that seems to quiet my babies down when they get too crazy is to show them to themselves in the mirror. They immediately become quiet, but maybe yours is beyond that stage. We haven't had a colicky baby so far. Thank you for updating me. I would like to know, if you have a minute, what percentage of the Haitian upper class might want to see the return of Aristide, and whether this is not mostly a right-wing coup orchestrated by former members of the long-entrenched Duvalier regime. Is Rene Depestre still alive? Has he written about it in Le Monde or elsewhere? I think that Aime Cesaire is still alive -- he was just a few years ago even though he's at least a nonagenarian if not pressing 100. Codrescu intrviewed him in Martinique just two or three years ago. Perhaps Cesaire will write his version somewhere. I want to find some good information. It's always hard to understand who's who in that world. But yes, I basically think that Bush and his team are basically good people, as I thought that Gore and his team were decent people. Limited, but not Hitlerian. Bush's wife is a very lovely librarian. I don't think she'd marry Hitler. -- Kirby anastasios@LOSTBAKLAVA.COM wrote: > ----- Forwarded message from anastasios@lostbaklava.com ----- > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:17:43 -0800 > From: anastasios@lostbaklava.com > Reply-To: anastasios@lostbaklava.com > Subject: Re: Haiti, Bush and on and on... > To: olsonjk@delhi.edu > > Kirby, we have a colicky 8-week old screaming his head off, and I cannot get > into a protracted debate with you like we did over on Aaron's list. > > Here's where we differ. You have faith that a US militaristic/diplomatic > intervention will do good there. > > You seem to think that Aristide had to play with US corporations and that all > Haitian wealth is corrupt. I know a good number of Haitian people who could be > considered wealthy but were also very large supporters of Aristide, Lavalas, > and long time populists who have worked through their lives to fight the deep > seated corruption in Haiti. You think that the US will improve the literacy > rate in Haiti when GWB has gutted Leave No Child Behind? You think that the US > will improve the HIV problem in Haiti when Bush wanted to kill his AIDS bill > the day after he proposed it in his State of the Union? The first installment > of $285M of that $15B was decided upon this past week -- nearly 13 months after > the fact. It will be going towards abstention programs and other issues, but it > cannot be used to buy cheaper generic AIDS medicines. In short, our money which > will go to Africa's AIDS sufferers must be used to enrich GWB's friends on the > pharmaceutical boards. And, you and I can go on for hours and hours about this. > > I would have liked to have seen an international peacekeeping force go in > before the Haitian situation reached it's tipping point in order to keep a > democratically elected government in place. > > Your Lutheran Dadaism seems to fall on the side of good faith. In the face of > overwhelming evidence, you seem to think that US government is overwhelmingly > good. In some ways, you position is downright Marxian but you substitute US > government for individuals. > > You will rebut, but I cannot. There's too much to deal with right now to be > able to get into this debate right now. I average 1.5 hours of sleep per night, > and I can barely keep it together. > > We disagree on our starting points. You seem to believe that the US will do > some good in Haiti, but I do not believe the people of Haiti will benefit from > Aristide's removal or -- let's get honest with this thing. Let's call a spade a > spade, eh? From this US backed coup. > > --Ak > > Quoting Kirby Olson : > > > Anastasios, the situation in Haiti is bizarre, and it's clear that our > > administration let Aristide crumble. But are you saying that you want a > > U.S. > > military intervention? > > > > It's the only thing that could have saved him. > > > > Exactly what is going on there is still unknown. It is quite clear that > > Aristide was not playing ball with the business elite, and they wanted him > > out. > > > > But how do you think Haiti could ever turn its fate around? I'd like to > > deal > > with the larger issues not just of who is immediately responsible for this > > atrocious turn of events, but what solution could possibly be found. Very > > high > > illiteracy, very high AIDS rate, the top soil is disappearing at an amazing > > rate, an almost totally corrupt upper class, a political system that has > > seemingly never worked, an endemic religious culture that is completely > > predatory and vicious beyond belief -- zombification -- which turns a person > > into a member of the living dead, mostly foreign-owned businesses that pay > > no > > taxes but pay bribes to the leadership. How can anything change when so > > much > > is against this country? The country has to be totally redesigned from the > > ground up if it is going to function. The vast majority of the peopl of > > Haiti > > are descendents of the former nation of Dahomey, which was itself no picnic. > > Mountains of skulls made the superstructure of one ancient palace, and the > > same > > voodoo business, the same gods, are still in place there. > > > > There is the probability or at least possibility that 100 years of US and > > French embargo more or less destroyed Haiti's capability of becoming one of > > the > > brighter nations of the Caribbean. What was done to Germany accomplished > > that > > in a couple of decades after WWI, and perhaps this is part of it. But I > > wonder > > what's to be done, and why what is done there is always already a disaster. > > The other half of the island is no picnic either but by comparison to Haiti > > it's quite functional. > > > > But Anastasios -- what you seem to be arguing is for military intervention, > > and > > your links were also seemingly full of people who really wanted a military > > intervention. The alternative to that, was doing nothing, and letting > > Aristide > > get slaughtered. The US seems to have at least saved Aristide. Do Bush and > > his people intend to put him back in after brokering another United Nations > > type of coalition, which is what everybody on the left seemed to want in > > Iraq? > > > > Meanwhile, a lot of necks are going to find a machete. And in this > > morning's > > paper, it said that BABY DOC DUVALIER yearns to return to Haiti from his > > exile > > in Miami. Just as Idi Amin no doubted yearned to get back in the saddle in > > Uganda. Short of a military intervention, this is never going to happen. > > And > > it would have to be a military intervention followed by thirty or forty > > years > > of permanent peacekeeping, with educational initiatives, and such massive > > changes that probably no relativist would be able to accept it. > > > > -- Kirby > > > > anastasios@LOSTBAKLAVA.COM wrote: > > > > > http://narcosphere.narconews.com/story/2004/3/6/222838/8700#1 > > > > > > Bush, Haiti & Venezuela: A Children's Tale > > > > > > By Charlie Hardy, > > > Posted on Sat Mar 6th, 2004 at 10:28:38 PM EST > > > > > > CARACAS, VENEZUELA, MARCH 6, 2004: There are > > three > > > very short words in Venezuela that often provoke smiles when they are > > > spoken: "No fui yo!" (It wasn't I). They are heard when someone releases > > > gases from their stomach and doesn't want to own up to it. > > > > > > The March 1 edition of the Caracas daily, Ultimas Noticias, has a photo > > of > > > the ambassador of the United States to Haiti, Brian Foley, with his hands > > > open and an interesting look on his face. I cannot see the words that are > > > coming out of his mouth but "no fui yo" would seem very suitable for the > > > moment. And he would be speaking the truth. He is only a part of the > > > machine that crushed Jean-Bertrand Aristide.[...] > > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:56:17 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: NEW LISTSERV POLICY ON FLAMING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I think the flaming is met with sufficient responses that generally it evens out. This reminds me of the great flame-out caused by Mark Spitzer when he attacked Ed Dorn and wrote all kinds of personal things about him in Exquisite Corpse a decade or so ago. Some thought he shouldn't have said those things. For me it revived Dorn. I liked Highland's message -- it was the only thing he's written that has enabled me to completely understand him, and now it seems that he isn't able to write any more. If you can't find anything nice to say don't say anything was the old rule in Lutheran Sunday School. Slowly, this board is getting more and more Lutheran. I guess I should enjoy that. I didn't know anything about the wonderful wise and charming woman at Grolier's, but reading about the skewed and erroneous impressions of her has made me want to patronize, I mean, buy something at her store. -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:05:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nate Dorward Subject: Gail Scott & Angela Rawlings reading Comments: To: smallpressers@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gail Scott Angela Rawlings Sunday, March 14th, 3 pm New Works Studio 319 Spadina Avenue, second floor no cover charge (donations are accepted & will go to the readers) The Gig magazine is proud to present a reading by renowned novelist Gail = Scott. My Paris, her novel about a diarist in conversation with Gertrude = Stein, Walter Benjamin and others, set in contemporary Paris, was named = one of the top ten Canadian novels of 1999 by Quill & Quire. Her other = books include the novels Main Brides and Heroine, the short story = collection Spare Parts Plus Two, and the essay collection Spaces Like = Stairs. She is an invited writer at l'Universit=E9 de Montr=E9al. For this reading Gail is joined by the Toronto poet Angela Rawlings (aka = a.rawlings, a.raw, angel:a raw lynx), whose works include the = book-in-progress wide slumber for lepidopterists and the hypermedia = project LOGYoLOGY. For more information about this reading, phone Nate Dorward at = 416-221-6865, or email ndorward@sprint.ca. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:13:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: gay-marriage ban comes up for debate in MINNESOTA LEGISLATURE In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20040308094844.02320770@mail.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://transdada.blogspot.com/ FLASH !!! IF YOU LIVE IN MINNESOTA CALL YOUR LEGISLATURES !!!do not let them pass=20= this bill again!!! MINNESOTA LEGISLATURE: Bill keying on gay-marriage ban comes up for=20 debate today @ transdada http://transdada.blogspot.com/ Monday, March 08, 2004 -Six gay couples in Seattle plan to sue today for the right to marry. -Same-Sex Couples Plan Protest -OMAHA, Neb. -Franklin joins opposition to gay marriage ban in Atlanta -The battle of same-sex marriages in Multnomah County heads to the=20 courtroom - -Demands For Newsom`s Arrest Grow -Same-Sex Couples Head To DMV For Name Changes -Hillary Firmly Opposes Gay Marriage (ITS TIME TO OPPOSE HILLARY) -New Paltz Gay Weddings Go Ahead -Gay Marriage Movement On Long Island -Supreme Court Nixes Scouts=A0 -Seattle To Recognize Gay Marriages -Scalia's talk to antigay group spurs ethics questions -Rudy opposes gay nups ban -Trial for transgender teen slaying set to begin Sunday, March 07, 2004 @ transdada http://transdada.blogspot.com/ -Democracy Took the Day Off -Councilwoman wants New York City's mayor to allow gay marriage -GOP Wants Ads That Criticize Bush Pulled -Arizona county halts mail-in marriage licenses because of gay marriage=20= controversy -Kennedy Endorses Gay Marriage -The Gender Circus -Same-sex marriage: breaking down the closet door, By Leslie Feinberg -Bloomberg shares parade duties with New Paltz mayor -Personal Voices: Let's Get Married...Or Not, By Elisabeth Hurst, Bad=20 Subjects -Gays in N.J. watch, wait as same-sex marriage debate develops AND MORE @ http://transdada.blogspot.com/= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:38:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Thomas Subject: Maybe Some People Hate My Guts In-Reply-To: <004501c40483$7112c960$d3011e43@k6k12c9frvhhz6p> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Maybe Some People Hate My Guts Surely we can all get behind hating (or at least begrudging) Gabe Gudding. He is, by his own admission, a barbarian, having beaten up several men in his youth at parties, and he owns a Hamilton Beach Cappucino Maker with Pod Holder. And an espresso (or expresso as his sister says) maker -- yes, he owns such things. Other expensive appliances? Again, yes: a 4.8 volt Black&Decker DustBuster. If you saw how he lives, you would think: ivory tower! Yes, I hate him. He makes fun of those who say fifty cent. --- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:52:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: NEW LISTSERV POLICY ON FLAMING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain sounds good to me On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:40:00 +0000, Poetics List Administration wrote: > Dear Aldon and Daniel, I see what you mean and of course I have no > interest whatsoever in thought-policing--the trick always seems to be > to come up with wording that's firm enough, tight enough to prevent > any misunderstanding and in the interests of making myself clear I > might have erred on the side of firm! But in the defense of over-the- > top firmness, since it is impossible to "manage" the list, impossible > to prevent flames from being sent out, the best I can do is to try to > get people's attention with a little foot-stomping--too many plead > ignorance about our policy on flaming. > > I have no problem with faulty logic, arguments with bad > premises/conclusions, snideness or jibes (my personal favorites > anyways) or with, I guess, insulting Vachel Lindsay--I do think that, > as an example, some of the comments made about non-list subscriber > Grolier book's Louisa Solano (insults made about her, her personality, > and therefore her poor business skills) weren't necessary, were unkind > and so unproductive and were of the same variety as so many other > comments about subscribers that I've found upsetting (there are many > more such examples from last Fall alone that you can read over in the > archives). Usually these comments use the list as a forum for airing > personal gripes or for some combination of personal gripe + dismissal > of the person's work (ie Person x was mean/grumpy/arrogant to me and > their work is not worth thinking/talking/writing about). I don't > think it's too restrictive to ask subscribers to refrain from these > kinds of comments, is it? > > Hope this is more clear! > Best, Lori > > --On Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:04 PM -0500 ALDON L NIELSEN > wrote: > > > I'm not entirely clear about why the revised policy is necessary, as > > opposed to stricter enforecement of the existing policy -- but then, > > there may be things I am not aware of, as I have a tendency to delete > > messages that appear to be flames without reading all the way through > > them -- > > > > but I worry about an absolute ban on any ad hominem argument about > any > > person, on or off the list -- Not that I favor ad hominem, but I > worry > > that it may some times be in the eye of the beholder . . . and I > really > > worry about a policy banning anything taken as a personal insult to > > anybody anywhere (and does this include historical figures? Can I > insult > > Vachel Lindsay?) > > > > On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 15:02:30 +0000, Poetics List Administration > wrote: > > > >> Dear list-members, > >> > >> In light of the increasing number of unacceptable *personal* > attacks that > >> have been posted on the listserv over the last six to eight months > the > >> listserv policy for flaming has been changed. > >> > >> For the past couple of years we have made it clear in the welcome > message > >> that flaming is not tolerated on the list and, to ensure that all > >> subscribers are clear about what flaming is and why we don't do it, > it > >> was defined as any post which attacks "fellow listees or the list > >> owners, also messages designed to 'waste bandwidth' or cause the > list to > >> reach its daily limit". Flaming is now defined as any post that > >> resembles a personal attack or personal insult to anyone-- > subscriber or > >> not--in any way at all. This of course includes ad hominem > arguments in > >> which the person rather than their work is attacked--in other words > >> while critique of a person's work is welcome(critical inquiry is > one of > >> the main functions of the list), this critique cannot extend to a > >> critique or criticism of the person. > >> > >> I think most would agree that we cannot risk losing the listserv as > a > >> productive communal space for discussion and announcements; as such, > >> subscribers who do not follow listserv policy on flaming will first > >> receive a warning from the listserv moderator and should they fail > to > >> follow policy again they will immediately be placed on review. > >> > >> These changes should not be surprising or oppressive in any way-- > they're > >> simply rules of decency and respect that ought to be extended to > all at > >> all times. > >> > >> If any of this is unclear in any way please do feel free to contact > me. > >> > >> All best, > >> Lori Emerson > >> listserv moderator > >> > >> > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > >> > > > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > > --Emily Dickinson > > > > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > > Kelly Professor of American Literature > > The Pennsylvania State University > > 116 Burrowes > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > > > (814) 865-0091 > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:10:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: Re: Noah's Projects Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >I enjoyed the 10 line poems you posted, and I'm curious about your 100 >poems >in 100 days project--I've tried similar projects, and they always fizzle. >Are >you using any particular generation, revision or cut-up strategies--or any >other self-imposed strictures? I'd love to hear a little more about it. Hi Kristy, Thanks, to be honest I'm not sure what to make of 'em yet. As far as strategies, well… just drinking lots of coffee and writing in a little notebook. The only real revision happens when I type them up, and even then it’s pretty minimal. I think I work best with overly ambitious projects, but so many of them do tend to “fizzle”…At the beginning of the year I’d started a full-page full-margins piece of prose per day project. Each one took about four or five hours. I got to ooohh… about January 3rd or so before jettisoning the project. The ten line thing is much easier, but it does cause lots of now-I-need-to-write-my-poem-today anxiety. Luckily, there’ll be no more of that till tomorrow; here’s my little noise o’ the day: Atlasly 3/8/04 Drama mapped a cricket fiddling genderless noise Hello hello mimetic heart means copy me Light falls or fails to sound grass A bit of soft music from the loud speaker Dufflebagged in idiot rain the indoor animals One more valley, one more hill The intellectual thing was north Grey sky’s an overused objective Wants in a green bottle green abundance O attitude what grows me like this _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:26:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: NEW LISTSERV POLICY ON FLAMING In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Wow, well this doesn't sound sexist to me, just maybe wrong. I think there's a real problem throwing these words around. I do want to say something about the policy. There are insults and there are insults. Insulting Bush\whack or Vachel doesn't hurt anyone. Direct insults on the list against other list members is another thing altogether. Ad\hominem\femina (?) insults serve no purpose at all but to lower the level of discourse here. With the imposition of 2 posts/day, someone doesn't really have the option to reply constantly, and this leads to a differend; the insult stays unanswered for a while. The opposite is the real problem, which is a list in which flamewars take over. This had happened on the old fiction-of-philosophy and Cybermind lists, both of which I co-moderated, and the result is that at least 1/3 of the subscribers left, and the list became dominated by violent discourse. If you believe in this space as a commons, you have to deal with this, or accept the fact that lists will head that direction, and lose all but the most virulent members. At this point, wryting, which is the successor to fop, and Cybermind are both functioning well. After AH was unsubbed (as he noted), he came back; I used the delete file, and he and I have no problems at all. I won't go into my side of this. The point is that the lists have both become continuing and creative communities, and there are numerous others out there as well, of course - I believe futureculture is one. Then there is nettime, which _is_ moderated, somewhat behind the scenes, and it's one of the best discussion lists online, if not the best. It works with a complex structure, and the level of discourse is incredibly high. Florian Cramer, Ryan Whyte, and I do the 'unstable digest' which is sent out, usually once a week, for freer efforts, which are culled from a number of other lists. List governance, as Poetics has pointed out, is very tricky, and difficult. Almost any direction taken results in a lot of onlist and a lot more offlist email (I received huge numbers of complaints over just about any flamewar on the lists I co-moderate; these are sent back-channel, but have to be taken into consideration). There's no clear answer. I do feel that the running of Poetics has been exemplary. I do want to add, for example, that the attack on Rothenberg (I haven't followed all of this), was disenheartening; I have nothing but admiration for him, and just picked up the original BIG edition of The Big Jewish Book, which I love, and which has always revitalized my relationship to Judaica. It locates freedom in stricture, play in paradigm, and is wonderful - as are all of his anthologies, as far as I'm concerned. - Alan On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, Maria Damon wrote: > At 11:22 AM -0500 3/8/04, Millie Niss on eathlink wrote: > >... Also, I'd > >go to Cambridge in the ;ate evening after my evening class in Boston, and of > >course Grolier's is closed then. It keeps restricted, dainty (if that makes > >sense) hours, not violating any long-since-repealed blue laws. > > > >Millie > > this is a bit unfair; the store doesn't make enough $$ to pay for an > extra employee to keep it open after hours. it's nothing to do with > "daintiness" or blue-law compliance. in fact, those comments sound a > little...dare i use the word sexist? > -- > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm finger sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:01:53 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: NEW LISTSERV POLICY ON FLAMING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/8/04 12:52:19 PM, damon001@UMN.EDU writes: > this is a bit unfair; the store doesn't make enough $$ to pay for an > extra employee to keep it open after hours.=A0 it's nothing to do with > "daintiness" or blue-law compliance. in fact, those comments sound a > little...dare i use the word sexist? > -- >=20 Maria, Millie is a woman. I can theoretically understand that a woman may be= =20 a sexist too (contra her own gender). But does "dainty" connote only Victori= an=20 embroidery daintiness? What about an anti-gay "mincing" daintiness? I think=20 Millie was referring to aristocratic, art-for-art's-sake, "southern"=20 daintiness.=20 Dainty used to have positive connotations, e.g., an medieval/Elizabethan=20 "dainty meal." I think one can write a history of Western culture around the= word=20 dainty, its permutations, riffs of new meanings. Ciao. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:06:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anastasios@LOSTBAKLAVA.COM Subject: Gray's Body ID'd MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NEWS ALERT Body Pulled From East River in N.Y. Is Identified as Missing Actor-Writer Spalding Gray (3:55 PM ET) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:09:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline That's too bad, sad. M www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com >>> anastasios@LOSTBAKLAVA.COM 03/08/04 16:06 PM >>> NEWS ALERT Body Pulled From East River in N.Y. Is Identified as Missing Actor-Writer Spalding Gray (3:55 PM ET) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:19:12 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffre Jullic Subject: Re: NEW LISTSERV POLICY ON FLAMING Comments: cc: poetics@BUFFALO.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii poetics@BUFFALO.EDU wrote: > I have no problem . . . with, I guess, insulting Vachel Lindsay It's alright to speak ill of the dead? At least with the living, they can defend themselves. How sad, to endorse insulting the poor, vulnerable dead, who cannot. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:24:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Besides Hart Crane in 1932 returning from Mexico + Spalding this year -- what other literary characters have 'jumped ship' to meet an untimely demise? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:26:22 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: NEW LISTSERV POLICY ON FLAMING In-Reply-To: <20040308211912.36449.qmail@web60902.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed OK, then, say something nice about Vachel Lindsay. I dare you. Mark At 01:19 PM 3/8/2004 -0800, Jeffre Jullic wrote: >poetics@BUFFALO.EDU wrote: > > > I have no problem . . . with, I guess, insulting >Vachel Lindsay > > > >It's alright to speak ill of the dead? > > >At least with the living, they can defend themselves. >How sad, to endorse insulting the poor, vulnerable >dead, who cannot. > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster >http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:48:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Leslie Scalapino Subject: UCB reading: Singleton, Davies, Scalapino,/Fischer, Synder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Inspiration and Emptiness: Contemporary Poets on Writing, Meditation, = and Buddhism": AFTERNOON SESSION UC Berkeley Art Museum Theater 2625 Durant Avenue, Berkeley 1:30pm introduction by Charlie Altieri, reading by giovanni singleton 2:00pm reading by Kevin Davies, introduced by CA 2:30pm reading by Leslie Scalapino, introduced by CA 3:00pm break, opportunity to visit museum exhibit "The Garden" 3:30pm all reconvene for group discussion and Q&A, moderated by CA 4:30pm public reception in theater lobby EVENING SESSION Chan Sun Auditorium, 2050 Valley Life Sciences Building UC Berkeley campus 7:30pm readings and conversation with Norman Fischer and Gary Snyder,=20 introduced by Prof. Ron Loewinsohn =20 Michele Rabkin Associate Director Consortium for the Arts & Arts Research Center at UC Berkeley 201 Dwinelle Annex #1054 Berkeley, CA 94720-1054 tel (510)642-4268 fax (510)642-6112 http://www.bampfa.berkeley.edu/bca/=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:04:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: UCB reading: Singleton, Davies, Scalapino,/Fischer, Synder Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Is there a date for this? ---------- >From: Leslie Scalapino >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: UCB reading: Singleton, Davies, Scalapino,/Fischer, Synder >Date: Mon, Mar 8, 2004, 1:48 PM > > "Inspiration and Emptiness: Contemporary Poets on Writing, Meditation, and > Buddhism": > > AFTERNOON SESSION > UC Berkeley Art Museum Theater > 2625 Durant Avenue, Berkeley > > 1:30pm introduction by Charlie Altieri, reading by giovanni singleton > 2:00pm reading by Kevin Davies, introduced by CA > 2:30pm reading by Leslie Scalapino, introduced by CA > 3:00pm break, opportunity to visit museum exhibit "The Garden" > 3:30pm all reconvene for group discussion and Q&A, moderated by CA > 4:30pm public reception in theater lobby > > EVENING SESSION > Chan Sun Auditorium, 2050 Valley Life Sciences Building > UC Berkeley campus > > 7:30pm readings and conversation with Norman Fischer and Gary Snyder, > introduced by Prof. Ron Loewinsohn > > Michele Rabkin > Associate Director > Consortium for the Arts & Arts Research Center > at UC Berkeley > 201 Dwinelle Annex #1054 > Berkeley, CA 94720-1054 > tel (510)642-4268 > fax (510)642-6112 > http://www.bampfa.berkeley.edu/bca/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:52:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffre Jullic Subject: Re: NEW LISTSERV POLICY ON FLAMING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii junction@EARTHLINK.NET wrote: > OK, then, say something nice about Vachel Lindsay. I dare you. I had forgotten this until now: When I was a teenager, I went along with the Forensic Society to some poetry-reciting competition. There were trophies. I chose Vachel Linday's "The Congo." I can still remember the opening lines: "Fat, black bucks in a [wine barrel?] room, Barrel house kings with feet unstable Sagged and reeled and pounded on a table, Pounded on the table with the handle of a broom Crying BOOM-Lay BOOM-Lay BOOM-Lay BOOM. Then came the Congo [the Niger?] creeping through the black . . ." One of the things that I find disappointing with blogs is that it's like listening to someone in psychoanalysis go on and on, talking to the ceiling, except without ever getting to the point of breaking through the ego defenses and unleashing repressed material, ---never realizing and getting to the point of saying that they want to kill their fathers and unclench their throbbing sphincters. It's like reading daily reenforcements of False Self. I didn't win a trophy that time. I had listened to recordings (phonograph albums) of Lindsay reading "The Congo." He had a ~very~ unnatural, stilted way of reading: he would accelerate at points, then slow down, his voice getting nasal and freaky . . . And I trained to imitate his rendition ~exactly.~ So, they gave me no trophy (phallus). I thought it was ironic that they apparently wanted some more streamlined, normative reading style and that a facsimile of Lindsay himself wasn't prize-worthy. Repeating the lines, I realize now that the poem must've sounded horribly racist, especially at the time, when Black Power was very much a thing in the air. I wonder if I realized it was about Africans at all. Maybe I thought the Congo was something like a Tikki Platter. I don't think Lori would like it if people insulted ~her~ memory, once she's gone. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:54:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: NEW LISTSERV POLICY ON FLAMING In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20040308132552.03399d50@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII He knew a good martini when he saw one. Robert -- Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop UW Box: 351237 On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, Mark Weiss wrote: > OK, then, say something nice about Vachel Lindsay. I dare you. > > Mark > > At 01:19 PM 3/8/2004 -0800, Jeffre Jullic wrote: > >poetics@BUFFALO.EDU wrote: > > > > > I have no problem . . . with, I guess, insulting > >Vachel Lindsay > > > > > > > >It's alright to speak ill of the dead? > > > > > >At least with the living, they can defend themselves. > >How sad, to endorse insulting the poor, vulnerable > >dead, who cannot. > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster > >http://search.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:56:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII yes, this is unfortunate. -- Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop UW Box: 351237 On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, Mairead Byrne wrote: > That's too bad, sad. > M > > > > www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com > >>> anastasios@LOSTBAKLAVA.COM 03/08/04 16:06 PM >>> > NEWS ALERT > Body Pulled From East River in N.Y. Is Identified as Missing Actor-Writer > Spalding Gray (3:55 PM ET) > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:04:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: NEW LISTSERV POLICY ON FLAMING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain To his credit, Lindsay was an important early film critic -- To his discredit, he seemed absolutely unable to comprehend why so many readers found THE CONGO racist -- Go back and look at DEAD POET SOCIETY again -- you'll note that the poem the boys are changint as they emerge from their cave is THE CONGO! white male bonding of a sort I'm glad to have missed -- (but hey, they probably wouldn't let me in Skull & Bones either, or Yale for that matter) On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 13:52:37 +0000, Jeffre Jullic wrote: > junction@EARTHLINK.NET wrote: > > > OK, then, say something nice about Vachel Lindsay. I > dare you. > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:19:06 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" yes indeed, very sad. too much suffering in the world... At 4:09 PM -0500 3/8/04, Mairead Byrne wrote: >That's too bad, sad. >M > > > >www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com >>>> anastasios@LOSTBAKLAVA.COM 03/08/04 16:06 PM >>> >NEWS ALERT >Body Pulled From East River in N.Y. Is Identified as Missing Actor-Writer >Spalding Gray (3:55 PM ET) -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:20:41 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AdeenaKarasick@CS.COM Subject: Reading at Columbia tomorrow nite MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ADEENA KARASICK MARK COCHRANE Columbia University The Gallery, Dodge Hall (Broadway & 116th St.) Tuesday March 9th, 8:00 PM Wine and Cheese Poets will be available after the reading to answer questions and to discuss formal experimentation, specifically the use of collage. This reading is sponsored by CA/T, Columbia Artists as Teachers program, in affiliation with the weekly seminar "Going to Pieces: Literature and Philosophy in Fragments." *** Adeena Karasick is a poet, cultural theorist and the award-winning author of five books of poetry and poetic theory, The Arugula Fugues (Zasterle Press, 2001), Dyssemia Sleaze (Talonbooks, Spring 2000), Genrecide (Talonbooks, 1996), Memewars (Talonbooks, 1994), and The Empress Has No Closure (Talonbooks, 1992). Marked with an urban, Jewish, feminist aesthetic that continually challenges normative modes of meaning production, Karasick has lectured and performed worldwide and regularly publishes articles, reviews and dialogues on contemporary poetry, poetics and cultural/semiotic theory. She teaches Literature and Culture at St. John's University. Forthcoming is The House That Hijack Built (Talonbooks, Spring 2004). "the most remorselessley, exuberantly, excessively `productive' slaughterhouse of language I've ever heard..." (Word) "an impressive deconstruction of language and meaning which is "exuberant in [its] cross-fertilization of punning and knowing, theatre and theory" (Charles Bernstein) "...combines the act of creation/invocation with an almost shamanistic fervor, Karasick's polyphonic compositions serve as psalms for a multilingual community of readers bound by belief in the primacy of language and the efficacy of invocation..." (Sharon Nelson) *** Mark Cochrane lives in Vancouver, Canada, where he teaches literature and creative writing at Kwantlen University College, occasionally reviews books for the Vancouver Sun, and studies Law at the University of British Columbia. He is the author of Boy Am I (Wolsak & Wynn 1995) and Change Room (Talonbooks 2000). A third collection of poetry, The Replacements, in forthcoming in spring 2005. Reviews: "Cochrane dazzles, and that's for sure. His is a big talent. He has enormous energy and range. Pathology, mythology, family rites, the weirdly homoerotic ambience of the hockey rink, and the sweaty ironies of the gymnasium are some of the fuels that drive his poetics. His writing is muscular, his optic daring and original....At his best, and he is often there, Mark Cochrane is a glorious writer." - Bill Richardson, Quill & Quire "Change Room is tough and brainy, with idiosyncratic language that sometimes shifts to simplicity--the poetic equivalent of a power chord." - Event magazine ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:59:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: travis ortiz Subject: Re: UCB reading: Singleton, Davies, Scalapino,/Fischer, Synder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > "Inspiration and Emptiness: Contemporary Poets on Writing, > > Meditation, and Buddhism": > > > > AFTERNOON SESSION > > UC Berkeley Art Museum Theater > > 2625 Durant Avenue, Berkeley > Is there a date for this? > according to the web site it's march 12, 1:30-4:30PM http://www.bampfa.berkeley.edu/bca/events.html#5 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:30:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Gay marriage takes place in New Jersey In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gay marriage takes place in New Jersey Asbury Park, New Jersey-AP -- New Jersey's first same-sex marriage ceremony has been performed in Asbury Park. In a written statement, City Clerk Dawn Tomek, calls it "a matter of fundamental civil and Constitutional rights." a href="http://www.wkbn.com/Global/story.asp?S=1696601 http://transdada.blogspot.com/ let the fire burn... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:28:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: LA: Writers & Teachers Reading March 16, 7:30 Comments: cc: CRM2709@bn.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Elena Byrne, author of THE FLAMMABLE BIRD (Zoo Press) will be reading with and introducing three former students: John Kovatch Giorgio Baroni Antonieta Villamil, author of LOS ACANTILADOS DEL SUE=D1O 7:30 pm, Tuesday, March 16 Barnes & Noble Westwood 10850 West Pico Blvd. West Los Angeles, CA 90064 =20 corner of Westwood & Pico in the Westside Pavilion Mall free parking in the mall free brownies =20 Elena Karina Byrne is a teacher, visual artist, curator for the USC Doheny Memorial Library poetry series and the Ruskin Art Club poetry series. She is Poetry Moderator for the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books. She is also currently working on projects with Red Car Studios and Red Hen Press. Her first book, The Flammable Bird, is availabl with Zoo Press and her poems are forthcoming in The Paris Review, Yale Review, Denver Quarterly, Chelsea, Verse, Hotel Amerika, Solo and The Journal, among others. Antonieta Villamil, author of seven books, born in Colombia in 1962, is an international award winning poet, narrator, editor, translator and cultural activist. Villamil presents her poetry in a multimedia performance and directs the poetry reviews MORADALSUR and THE POEM. =20 Giorgio Baroni=92s poems in Italian and English have been widely = published online. He is completing a memoir entitled Dante's Arm. =20 John Kovatch=92s poems have appeared in journals including Glenna Luschei=92s SOLO, and he has participated in the Poetry In Motion = readings on the LA MTA as well as in the San Gabriel Valley Poetry Festival.\ ____________________________________ This series is under the curatorship of Catherine Daly and Margaret Wang every third Tuesday at B&N Westwood and now every fourth Tuesday at B&N Glendale. Each month a local writer who teaches reads with and presents three students. Contact Catherine Daly @ cadaly@pacbell.net for more information, of if you are a published writer in the Los Angeles area who teaches poetry, fiction, or playwriting. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 19:46:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: 13th & 14th MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FUSIONARTS MUSEUM 57 Stanton St. (betw. Eldridge & Forsyth, below Houston) F train to 2nd Avenue presents A WEEKEND OF MUSIC IN THE AFTERNOON SATURDAY, MARCH 13 SUNDAY, MARCH 14 3pm Lisa Karrer/David Simons 3pm Matt Lavelle/ Ryan Sawyer Duo 4pm Blue Collar w/Nate Wooley 4pm Ras Moshe Tatsuya Nakatani, Steve Swell Music Now Unit=20 w/Jackson Krall 5pm Sabir Mateen=92s Juxtapositons Matt Heyner, Masako Yokouchi,Matt = Todd Nicholson Heyner, Ravish Momin plus poetry 5pm Earth People with Andre Martinez, Steve Dalachinsky Doug & Principato, Gerald Schwartz Sabir Mateen, JasonChandler, $10 each afternoon Mark Hennen & Firehorse free refreshments ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:28:28 -0800 Reply-To: pdunagan@lycos.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick dunagan Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80) Subject: SF READING: Ballard, Butler, & Dunagan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 3/11/04: ADOBE BOOKS RED ANT PRESS & AUGUSTE PRESS BOOK RELEASE READING Micah Ballard Jeffrey Butler Patrick Dunagan 7:00 pm March 11th Adobe Books on 16th st. b/w Valencia and Guerrero in the Mission district San Francisco, CA ____________________________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:37:32 -0500 Reply-To: Millie Niss on eathlink Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss on eathlink Subject: a post actually about poetry (Was FLAMING...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll bite on the "say something nice about Vachel Lindsay" thread. My father recites Vachel Lindsay occasionally. It is nauseatingly politically incorrect (the poem I'm thinking of is the one about the Congo) in an imperialist way, which I don't like, but the popem IS catchy when well-recited. It has a pleasing beat to it. The meter and versification in general are recognizable Bad but nonetheless one can get a guilty pleasure from listening to it. Are Bad poets more entertaining than Good poets? (I use these terms ironically of course.) Is, say narrative nineteenth century verse a la Tennyson or (to name a poet in bad repute) Swinburne more entertaining than Language poetry, for example? I mean, whatever you can say against it, Tennyson's Idylls of the King, it at least has craft and a good story (granted not one original to Tennyson), whereas it is harder to pin down craft in postmodern or avant-garde poetry (or even Modernist, for that matter), and no "Poetics List" style poet would ever admit to writing a poem with a plot line or "story." (I actually write narrative poems sometimes and have gotten them published in decent, if not terrific, places. But I use stories with a surreal and generally postmodernly ironic tinge.) I actually _do_ find Language poetry entertaining as a matter of fact. I am reading Silliman's "Lit" (part of The Alphabet). I read N/O (partially) some years ago. I think there is a lot of humor in Silliman's work, as in Bernstein's and Steve McCaffery's. (I showed my father the Vachel-reciter a page of "The Cheat of Words" by McCaffery and he couldn't believe that it was taken seriously. I said it isn't serious as in solemn, since there is humor, but, yes, Language Poets are taken seriously as poets... :-) Some poetry, on the other hand, is not "fun" but seems more in the "good for you" category. I can't really identify anything that fits this description, though, because so much poetry that I initially found hard to get through (e.g. Wallace Stevens, and for entirely different reasons, Frank O'Hara) now seem pretty undeniably good. (Well, O'Hara wrote some Bad poems I think, like the one about talking to the sun -- literally -- on Fire Island, but The Day Lady Died is a classic I think.) Have I avoided ad hominem attacks? I do think it is fair to criticize the dead, unless one is with the grieving family or something! Millie P.S. My father also likes to recite Good poetry, like Eliot's Sweeney Among the Nightingales or Browning's My Last Duchess (does anyone want to argue that Browning is actually Bad?). I think he caught these poems, as one catches the flu, in school and college at a time when people memorized. I can distinguish terrible poems from masterpieces (I hope) by now, but as a five year old I just liked the sound of poetry, ANY poetry. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Weiss" To: Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 4:26 PM Subject: Re: NEW LISTSERV POLICY ON FLAMING > OK, then, say something nice about Vachel Lindsay. I dare you. > > Mark > > At 01:19 PM 3/8/2004 -0800, Jeffre Jullic wrote: > >poetics@BUFFALO.EDU wrote: > > > > > I have no problem . . . with, I guess, insulting > >Vachel Lindsay > > > > > > > >It's alright to speak ill of the dead? > > > > > >At least with the living, they can defend themselves. > >How sad, to endorse insulting the poor, vulnerable > >dead, who cannot. > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster > >http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:13:14 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd - full story MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Spalding Gray, 62, Actor and Monologuist, Is Confirmed Dead By Jesse McKinley NY Times, March 8, 2004 Spalding Gray, the wry monologuist and actor who transformed his personal experiences, fascinations and traumas into such acclaimed pieces as "Swimming to Cambodia" and "Monster in a Box,"was confirmed dead today, two months after his wife reported him missing, a spokeswoman for the city medical examiner's office said. He was 62. Mr. Gray's body was pulled from the East River near Greenpoint, Brooklyn, on Sunday and was identified through dental records, said the spokeswoman, Ellen Borakove. The authorities did not provide the cause of death. Mr. Gray, who had been battling depression, was reported missing on Jan. 11, a day after he had left his apartment in Manhattan and never returned. He had told his family that he was going to see friends. Several witnesses told detectives investigating the disappearance that they had seen Mr. Gray aboard the Staten Island Ferry on the night of Jan. 10, the police said. Almost always seated behind a simple desk, with a glass of water and some notes, Mr. Gray practiced the art of storytelling with a quiet mania, alternating between conspiratorial whispers and antic screams as he roamed through topics large and small. This talent was perhaps never better displayed than in "Swimming to Cambodia," his 1984 monologue in which his experiences filming a small role in the movie "The Killing Fields" became a jumping-off point for exploring the history and culture of war in Southeast Asia. The piece was itself turned into a noted film, directed by Jonathan Demme, in 1987. "Swimming" may have been Mr. Gray's most famous work, but for 25 years, he turned out a consistent stream of well-crafted, well-received pieces on subjects as varied as writing ("Monster in a Box," 1990) and illness ("Gray's Anatomy," 1993), to less-weighty issues like learning to ski ("It's a Slippery Slope," 1996) and performing while high on LSD ("Point Judith," 1980). His relentless self-absorption drew a broad range of audiences, from those at such high-end, 1,000-seat theaters as the Vivian Beaumont at Lincoln Center (where he produced four shows during the 1990's) to downtown crowds at the 100-seat theaters at the Performing Garage and P.S. 122, two performance spaces where he typically fine-tuned his monologues. While his performances resembled - and influenced - the confessional style of contemporaries like Eric Bogosian and John Leguizamo, Mr. Gray's work also displayed an instinctive curiosity and taste for first-person research, turning his life travels and travails into a type of closely observed,- and publicly performed, autobiography. A self-confessed depressive, he reportedly attempted suicide at least once before in recent years, Mr..Gray had a common refrain in many of his monologues: a search for larger meaning, a quest, as he put it, for "the perfect moment." The monologues were also, for the record, usually painfully funny. "He is a sit-down monologuist with the comic sensibility of a stand-up comedian," Mel Gussow wrote in The New York in 1981 in a review of "47 Beds," a chronicle of all the beds, and continents, Mr. Gray had slept in. "He describes in vivid detail his search for self-discovery, and then laughs at himself and needles nirvana." One of three sons, Mr. Gray was born on June 5, 1941, in Barrington, R.I. His father was a factory worker, and his mother a homemaker; Mr. Gray referred to himself as "a Rhode Island WASP," raised in a house he depicted as rife with repression, depression and all kinds of neurosis. Perhaps as a reaction to that, Mr. Gray, tall and lanky with an awkward charm, began acting in high school; by his mid-20's that interest had blossomed into a modest career as an actor on the regional theater circuit. In 1967 Mr. Gray moved to New York and soon emerged as an active member of the city's then-thriving downtown experimental theater scene. In 1970 he joined director Richard Schechner's influential troupe, the Performance Group, and in 1973, appeared in the New York premiere of "Tooth of Crime," by Sam Shepard. In the mid-1970's, Mr. Gray left Mr. Schechner's troupe to help found the Wooster Group, an experimental company based at the Performing Garage, a converted flatware factory on Wooster Street in SoHo. His connections to the group ran deep; Mr. Gray had dated another of the company's founders, Elizabeth LaCompte, and was a friend of the actor Willem Dafoe, also a company founder who later became Ms. LaCompte's long-term boyfriend. Until his death, Mr. Gray kept an apartment in the same building on Wooster Street as Mr. Dafoe and Ms. LaCompte, as well as a home on Long Island, in North Haven. From the company's founding, Mr. Gray and Ms. LaCompte were the principal writers, turning out a series of plays based on his memories of childhood in Rhode Island. His mother, Elizabeth Gray, also suffered from depression, and committed suicide in 1967. That event triggered a long depression for Mr. Gray, but also inspired "Rumstick Road," a 1977 production of the Wooster Group, created and directed by Mr. Gray and Ms. LaCompte. By 1979, Mr. Gray had decided to pursue the monologue as a type of performance art, and soon hit on his basic set (desk, water, notes) and approach (simple, measured, candid). His first piece, "Sex and Death to the Age of 14," told the story of just that, setting an autobiographical tone that would continue throughout his career, including such self-explanatory titles as "Booze, Cars, and College Girls," and "India (and After)," the story of a Wooster Group tour to India. In recent years his monologues became ever more personal, however, examining his adventures in fatherhood ("Morning, Noon, and Night," in 1999), and his final piece, " Life Interrupted," which dealt with a serious car accident he and his wife and manager Kathleen Russo suffered in Ireland in 2001. He performed parts of the work late last year at P.S. 122 in the East Village, and many who saw it considered it his darkest work yet. In addition to film versions of several of his monologues, Mr. Gray appeared in nearly 40 movies, including "True Stories" (1986), "Beaches" (1988), "The Paper" (1994) and "Beyond Rangoon" (1995); he also appeared on Broadway in 1988 as the Stage Manager in "Our Town," and in 2000 as a political candidate in "Gore Vidal's The Best Man." In addition to Ms. Russo, Mr. Gray is survived by two brothers, Rockwell Gray, a professor of English at Washington University in St. Louis; Channing Gray, a music critic for The Providence Journal; his former wife, Renee Shafransky; two sons, Theo and Forrest; and a stepdaughter, Marissa. In his 1980 show "Point Judith," Mr. Gray spoke a line that may well have summed up his life and career. "It's very hard for me," he said. "Not to tell everybody everything." [Shaila K. Dewan contributed reporting for this article.] http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/08/arts/08CND-GRAY.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:35:25 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Mumbo Jumbo... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Vachel the stars are out ..... ..... ...... ...... Yr shade falls all over the floor" Just as a p.o.r..point of reference.. I'm old enuf to be yr father & i lv...'His Last Duchess" drn... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:21:40 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Susan M. Schultz" Subject: http://tinfishpress.com Comments: cc: chan@downwindproductions.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tinfish Press is now credit card capable! Our first credit card customer will get a prize! so go to our site and push the PURCHASE button after looking over our fine wares. aloha, Susan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 19:52:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: visual thesaurus In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I continue - with great pleasure - to investigate and play with this Visual Thesaurus! It might be either fashionable, true or both, these days, to imagine "parallel universes." But, partly, as I watch the visual thesaurus site spin out the cosmology of its (word) wares, I began to ask whether or not a Thesaurus, on some level and by definition, posits the possibility of multiple, parallel universes. That is for every poem there is either a correspondent poem (o dear, back to Spicer & Lorca again), or a poem that i= s correspondent, but oppositional, absolutely contrary in its terms. Could a thesaurus take the universe Ron S's "Ketjak" and either create a parallel version,or, so to speak, turn the weave upside down, and reveal its antithesis through its linguistic opposites. Or maybe it's possible to read any work with its reversal of terms as part of the critical experience of reading it. It's not necessarily an anti-Authoritarian gesture, by maybe a way of enlarging the work, and taking that end of the creative responsibility as the reader of the work. So I play a little here with Zuk: one air then a host (Zukofsky, 7th stanza, A 22) =20 (Thesaurus)=20 (in parallel)=20 peerless melody sequence concourse =20 (in opposition) conjunct land regress dismember =20 Or just an oppositional stanza: they began to exist =AD error if error vertigo their sun eyes delirium =AD both initial together rove into the blue initial surely it carves a breath Z, stanza 6, A-22) =20 (Opposite Only) One starts to disappear - truth if truth shape our moon feet firm =AD one eliminates alone rams out a black double crushes wet dirt to mud Stephen V =20 on 3/5/04 9:02 PM, Stephen Vincent at steph484@PACBELL.NET wrote: > on 3/5/04 8:25 PM, Gerald Schwartz at gejs1@ROCHESTER.RR.COM wrote: >=20 >> Camille: > This is great! I put in "thumb" and kept getting greater arrays of this > digits various shapes, muscles and tissues. The kind of dope that magnifi= es > minute particulars but only in terms of names. I don't know why we don't > have a car named "OVOLO" of which the companion definition of the word > offers up - we're looking and not looking at a thumb here - as "A convex > molding having a cross section in the form of a quarter of a circle or an > ellipse." >=20 > I mean who wouldn't want to get inside and drive an "Ovolo"? >=20 > Thumbs up - o well - and, thank you, Camille! >=20 > Stephen V >=20 >>=20 >> What great galaxies! Thank you for this shimmering gift. >>=20 >> Cheers, >> Jerry Schwartz >>> Check out the free & imaginative online edition of the Visual Thesaurus= : >>>=20 >>> http://www.visualthesaurus.com/online/index.html >>>=20 >>> Enter a word and watch panicles of similar words branch from it. >>> Mesmerizing! It vividly illustrates what Lyn Hejinian says in "The >>> Rejection of Closure" about lexical disjunction: >>>=20 >>> "Even words in storage, in the dictionary, seem frenetic with activity,= as >>> each individual entry attracts to itself other words as definition, >>> example, and amplification. . . . It is relevant that the exchanges are >>> incompletely reciprocal." >>>=20 >>> Camille >>>=20 >>> Camille Martin >>> 7725 Cohn St. >>> New Orleans, LA 70118 >>> (504) 861-8832 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:17:53 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: Maybe Some People Hate My Guts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed It's pronounced "fitty," Joseph. "Fitty cent" is how we barbarians say "fifty cents." Also I do not own no cappucino maker. That is owned by the person who criticized me for being a barbarian. The entire thing is up at CONCHOLOGY blog. For those of you who don't know, Joseph Thomas is one of the editors of L'Bourgeozine -- or the magazine formerly known as L'Bourgeozine. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:21:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Terrie Relf Subject: Re: visual thesaurus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit What's the link for this visual thesaurus? I confess to being too busy to join in... Lurking away... Ter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Vincent" To: Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 7:52 PM Subject: Re: visual thesaurus I continue - with great pleasure - to investigate and play with this Visual Thesaurus! It might be either fashionable, true or both, these days, to imagine "parallel universes." But, partly, as I watch the visual thesaurus site spin out the cosmology of its (word) wares, I began to ask whether or not a Thesaurus, on some level and by definition, posits the possibility of multiple, parallel universes. That is for every poem there is either a correspondent poem (o dear, back to Spicer & Lorca again), or a poem that is correspondent, but oppositional, absolutely contrary in its terms. Could a thesaurus take the universe Ron S's "Ketjak" and either create a parallel version,or, so to speak, turn the weave upside down, and reveal its antithesis through its linguistic opposites. Or maybe it's possible to read any work with its reversal of terms as part of the critical experience of reading it. It's not necessarily an anti-Authoritarian gesture, by maybe a way of enlarging the work, and taking that end of the creative responsibility as the reader of the work. So I play a little here with Zuk: one air then a host (Zukofsky, 7th stanza, A 22) (Thesaurus) (in parallel) peerless melody sequence concourse (in opposition) conjunct land regress dismember Or just an oppositional stanza: they began to exist ­ error if error vertigo their sun eyes delirium ­ both initial together rove into the blue initial surely it carves a breath Z, stanza 6, A-22) (Opposite Only) One starts to disappear - truth if truth shape our moon feet firm ­ one eliminates alone rams out a black double crushes wet dirt to mud Stephen V on 3/5/04 9:02 PM, Stephen Vincent at steph484@PACBELL.NET wrote: > on 3/5/04 8:25 PM, Gerald Schwartz at gejs1@ROCHESTER.RR.COM wrote: > >> Camille: > This is great! I put in "thumb" and kept getting greater arrays of this > digits various shapes, muscles and tissues. The kind of dope that magnifies > minute particulars but only in terms of names. I don't know why we don't > have a car named "OVOLO" of which the companion definition of the word > offers up - we're looking and not looking at a thumb here - as "A convex > molding having a cross section in the form of a quarter of a circle or an > ellipse." > > I mean who wouldn't want to get inside and drive an "Ovolo"? > > Thumbs up - o well - and, thank you, Camille! > > Stephen V > >> >> What great galaxies! Thank you for this shimmering gift. >> >> Cheers, >> Jerry Schwartz >>> Check out the free & imaginative online edition of the Visual Thesaurus: >>> >>> http://www.visualthesaurus.com/online/index.html >>> >>> Enter a word and watch panicles of similar words branch from it. >>> Mesmerizing! It vividly illustrates what Lyn Hejinian says in "The >>> Rejection of Closure" about lexical disjunction: >>> >>> "Even words in storage, in the dictionary, seem frenetic with activity, as >>> each individual entry attracts to itself other words as definition, >>> example, and amplification. . . . It is relevant that the exchanges are >>> incompletely reciprocal." >>> >>> Camille >>> >>> Camille Martin >>> 7725 Cohn St. >>> New Orleans, LA 70118 >>> (504) 861-8832 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:46:31 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kodeli1 Subject: Re: Noah's Projects Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the new poem Noah, I feel the noise. (Especially the last 2 lines.) And thanks for letting me in on your approach. I'm halfway there with the lots of coffee and a tiny, glitter-covered notebook I bought at Just-A-Buck three months ago and thus far has simply added mass to the piles of #!@& on my office floor... Yeah, I once tried the Harry Matthews 20-lines-a-day thing--I was so inspired--for 8 days. I still wish I could get back to that one, because the freedom to write in either "verse" OR "prose"--in other words, whatever--was useful to my writing process in general--and that latitude should've made it easier, dammit. And "line" can be defined in so many ways, can't it? A word, a letter, a breath--I even did the writing on a grassy rump overlooking Lake Michigan during a rare and gorgeous Chicago June--yet, no go. But, I'll keep at it--let me know how the 100 days go. And please pass on a few more 10-packs. yrs, Kristy Odelius kodeli1@uic.edu >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Original Message From UB Poetics discussion group =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>I enjoyed the 10 line poems you posted, and I'm curious about your 100 >>poems >>in 100 days project--I've tried similar projects, and they always fizzle. >>Are >>you using any particular generation, revision or cut-up strategies--or any >>other self-imposed strictures? I'd love to hear a little more about it. > >Hi Kristy, > >Thanks, to be honest I'm not sure what to make of 'em yet. As far as >strategies, well. just drinking lots of coffee and writing in a little >notebook. The only real revision happens when I type them up, and even then >it's pretty minimal. I think I work best with overly ambitious projects, but >so many of them do tend to "fizzle".At the beginning of the year I'd started >a full-page full-margins piece of prose per day project. Each one took about >four or five hours. I got to ooohh. about January 3rd or so before >jettisoning the project. The ten line thing is much easier, but it does >cause lots of now-I-need-to-write-my-poem-today anxiety. Luckily, there'll >be no more of that till tomorrow; here's my little noise o' the day: > >Atlasly 3/8/04 > >Drama mapped a cricket fiddling genderless noise >Hello hello mimetic heart means copy me >Light falls or fails to sound grass >A bit of soft music from the loud speaker >Dufflebagged in idiot rain the indoor animals >One more valley, one more hill >The intellectual thing was north >Grey sky's an overused objective >Wants in a green bottle green abundance >O attitude what grows me like this > >_________________________________________________________________ >FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! >http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:28:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sb Subject: Re: visual thesaurus In-Reply-To: <002e01c4058d$f1a31160$50810744@homed15uzplty8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's at: http://www.visualthesaurus.com/online/index.html I've been having fun with it, too. Sharon Brogan www.sbpoet.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] = On Behalf Of Terrie Relf Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:21 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: visual thesaurus What's the link for this visual thesaurus? I confess to being too busy = to join in... Lurking away... Ter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Vincent" To: Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 7:52 PM Subject: Re: visual thesaurus I continue - with great pleasure - to investigate and play with this = Visual Thesaurus! It might be either fashionable, true or both, these days, to imagine "parallel universes." But, partly, as I watch the visual = thesaurus site spin out the cosmology of its (word) wares, I began to ask whether = or not a Thesaurus, on some level and by definition, posits the possibility = of multiple, parallel universes. That is for every poem there is either a correspondent poem (o dear, back to Spicer & Lorca again), or a poem = that is correspondent, but oppositional, absolutely contrary in its terms. Could = a thesaurus take the universe Ron S's "Ketjak" and either create a = parallel version,or, so to speak, turn the weave upside down, and reveal its antithesis through its linguistic opposites. Or maybe it's possible to = read any work with its reversal of terms as part of the critical experience = of reading it. It's not necessarily an anti-Authoritarian gesture, by maybe = a way of enlarging the work, and taking that end of the creative responsibility as the reader of the work. So I play a little here with Zuk: one air then a host (Zukofsky, 7th stanza, A 22) (Thesaurus) (in parallel) peerless melody sequence concourse (in opposition) conjunct land regress dismember Or just an oppositional stanza: they began to exist - error if error vertigo their sun eyes delirium - both initial together rove into the blue initial surely it carves a breath Z, stanza 6, A-22) (Opposite Only) One starts to disappear - truth if truth shape our moon feet firm - one eliminates alone rams out a black double crushes wet dirt to mud Stephen V on 3/5/04 9:02 PM, Stephen Vincent at steph484@PACBELL.NET wrote: > on 3/5/04 8:25 PM, Gerald Schwartz at gejs1@ROCHESTER.RR.COM wrote: > >> Camille: > This is great! I put in "thumb" and kept getting greater arrays of=20 > this digits various shapes, muscles and tissues. The kind of dope that magnifies > minute particulars but only in terms of names. I don't know why we=20 > don't have a car named "OVOLO" of which the companion definition of=20 > the word offers up - we're looking and not looking at a thumb here -=20 > as "A convex molding having a cross section in the form of a quarter=20 > of a circle or an ellipse." > > I mean who wouldn't want to get inside and drive an "Ovolo"? > > Thumbs up - o well - and, thank you, Camille! > > Stephen V > >> >> What great galaxies! Thank you for this shimmering gift. >> >> Cheers, >> Jerry Schwartz >>> Check out the free & imaginative online edition of the Visual=20 >>> Thesaurus: >>> >>> http://www.visualthesaurus.com/online/index.html >>> >>> Enter a word and watch panicles of similar words branch from it.=20 >>> Mesmerizing! It vividly illustrates what Lyn Hejinian says in "The=20 >>> Rejection of Closure" about lexical disjunction: >>> >>> "Even words in storage, in the dictionary, seem frenetic with=20 >>> activity, as >>> each individual entry attracts to itself other words as definition,=20 >>> example, and amplification. . . . It is relevant that the exchanges=20 >>> are incompletely reciprocal." >>> >>> Camille >>> >>> Camille Martin >>> 7725 Cohn St. >>> New Orleans, LA 70118 >>> (504) 861-8832 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:31:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sb Subject: Re: visual thesaurus In-Reply-To: <002e01c4058d$f1a31160$50810744@homed15uzplty8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, I was having fun with it. Then I tried "woman".=20 Now I'm not having fun.=20 Sharon Brogan www.sbpoet.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] = On Behalf Of Terrie Relf Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:21 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: visual thesaurus What's the link for this visual thesaurus? I confess to being too busy = to join in... Lurking away... Ter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Vincent" To: Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 7:52 PM Subject: Re: visual thesaurus I continue - with great pleasure - to investigate and play with this = Visual Thesaurus! It might be either fashionable, true or both, these days, to imagine "parallel universes." But, partly, as I watch the visual = thesaurus site spin out the cosmology of its (word) wares, I began to ask whether = or not a Thesaurus, on some level and by definition, posits the possibility = of multiple, parallel universes. That is for every poem there is either a correspondent poem (o dear, back to Spicer & Lorca again), or a poem = that is correspondent, but oppositional, absolutely contrary in its terms. Could = a thesaurus take the universe Ron S's "Ketjak" and either create a = parallel version,or, so to speak, turn the weave upside down, and reveal its antithesis through its linguistic opposites. Or maybe it's possible to = read any work with its reversal of terms as part of the critical experience = of reading it. It's not necessarily an anti-Authoritarian gesture, by maybe = a way of enlarging the work, and taking that end of the creative responsibility as the reader of the work. So I play a little here with Zuk: one air then a host (Zukofsky, 7th stanza, A 22) (Thesaurus) (in parallel) peerless melody sequence concourse (in opposition) conjunct land regress dismember Or just an oppositional stanza: they began to exist - error if error vertigo their sun eyes delirium - both initial together rove into the blue initial surely it carves a breath Z, stanza 6, A-22) (Opposite Only) One starts to disappear - truth if truth shape our moon feet firm - one eliminates alone rams out a black double crushes wet dirt to mud Stephen V on 3/5/04 9:02 PM, Stephen Vincent at steph484@PACBELL.NET wrote: > on 3/5/04 8:25 PM, Gerald Schwartz at gejs1@ROCHESTER.RR.COM wrote: > >> Camille: > This is great! I put in "thumb" and kept getting greater arrays of=20 > this digits various shapes, muscles and tissues. The kind of dope that magnifies > minute particulars but only in terms of names. I don't know why we=20 > don't have a car named "OVOLO" of which the companion definition of=20 > the word offers up - we're looking and not looking at a thumb here -=20 > as "A convex molding having a cross section in the form of a quarter=20 > of a circle or an ellipse." > > I mean who wouldn't want to get inside and drive an "Ovolo"? > > Thumbs up - o well - and, thank you, Camille! > > Stephen V > >> >> What great galaxies! Thank you for this shimmering gift. >> >> Cheers, >> Jerry Schwartz >>> Check out the free & imaginative online edition of the Visual=20 >>> Thesaurus: >>> >>> http://www.visualthesaurus.com/online/index.html >>> >>> Enter a word and watch panicles of similar words branch from it.=20 >>> Mesmerizing! It vividly illustrates what Lyn Hejinian says in "The=20 >>> Rejection of Closure" about lexical disjunction: >>> >>> "Even words in storage, in the dictionary, seem frenetic with=20 >>> activity, as >>> each individual entry attracts to itself other words as definition,=20 >>> example, and amplification. . . . It is relevant that the exchanges=20 >>> are incompletely reciprocal." >>> >>> Camille >>> >>> Camille Martin >>> 7725 Cohn St. >>> New Orleans, LA 70118 >>> (504) 861-8832 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 02:25:23 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Fw: Mumbo Jumbo..Ole Man Rivers.. blues...etc.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Forwarded Message----- From: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sent: Mar 8, 2004 9:47 PM To: Poetics@listserv.buffalo.edu Subject: Mumbo Jumbo..Ole Man Rivers.. blues...etc.. 'ust as 'nother p.o.r... heard Longfellow's Midnight Ride of Paul Revere.. read this July 4th... a Great American tone pome... ole man meth 'iver..he keep on.. bein' th' Unstein...DRn... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:29:14 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Radio Lava Lamp Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey John--Could you forward this to Fluxlist and other cool lists? Hey Kids, I was going to send my only copy of Soundmess, but thought I'd reach out to everyone on the list. I know lots of you do sound poetry/ spoken word, so i wanted to invite you to contribute your sounds to a cool internet radio broadcasting from Osaka called Lava Lamp Radio. They're interested in featuring the kinds of things most of us do, plus experimental/alternative music. They're an easy search on Google so you can see what the site is about. The director tells me that folks can send sound files to: radiolavalamp@hotmail.com Or tapes/Cds to: Radio Lava Lamp 2-21-2 Okubonaka Kumatori-cho, Sennan-gun, Osaka-fu 590-0403 Japan attn: Ralph Famularo Eternal coolness! Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:01:40 -0800 Reply-To: antrobin@clipper.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anthony Robinson Subject: Re: Maybe Some People Hate My Guts In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20040308221336.01d445a0@mail.ilstu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > For those of you who don't know, Joseph Thomas is > one of the editors of > L'Bourgeozine -- or the magazine formerly known as >L'Bourgeozine. Which, like anything Gudding is associated with is brilliant, provocative, irreverent, and well, pretty darned entertaining. Thanks, Gabe and Joseph. Tony __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 01:03:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: working with the 4th dimension (projected into flattened 3-space) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII working with the 4th dimension (projected into flattened 3-space) (also some state graphs) http://www.asondheim.org/ 4d pngs beginning an exploration of 4-dimensional images, starting with very simple inverse and exponential approaches (however it is clear that some are coupled with trignometric functions). i will continue to add to these. software is calculon on zaurus pda. years ago i worked meditatively on imagining the imaginary of the fourth dimension. now i see the fruition held in my hand. ... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 06:47:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Poet on Death Row (from the New York Times) In-Reply-To: <00ac01c404be$5220dfc0$6d94c044@MULDER> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v612) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/09/books/09POET.html?8hpib ___________________________________________________________ The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:57:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Diasporic Avant-Gardes web page Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed A web site has been created for "Diasporic Avant-Gardes: Experimental Poetics and Cultural Displacement," to be held at University of California, Irvine, November 19-20, 2004. The deadline for the call for papers is April 15. http://www.hri.uci.edu/Diasporic_Avant-Gardes/Content.html Barrett Watten and Carrie Noland, co-organizers ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:49:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Terrie Relf Subject: Re: visual thesaurus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you...I plugged in "Woman", "love", "sex", "literacy", "poetry", "fiction", and "prestidigitation". Oh, also "fat" and "phat"(no listing for this one...). My, my, my...There were more items for "fat" than just about any of them. Others were limited. "Charwoman"? geez... T ----- Original Message ----- From: "sb" To: Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 8:28 PM Subject: Re: visual thesaurus It's at: http://www.visualthesaurus.com/online/index.html I've been having fun with it, too. Sharon Brogan www.sbpoet.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Terrie Relf Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:21 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: visual thesaurus What's the link for this visual thesaurus? I confess to being too busy to join in... Lurking away... Ter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Vincent" To: Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 7:52 PM Subject: Re: visual thesaurus I continue - with great pleasure - to investigate and play with this Visual Thesaurus! It might be either fashionable, true or both, these days, to imagine "parallel universes." But, partly, as I watch the visual thesaurus site spin out the cosmology of its (word) wares, I began to ask whether or not a Thesaurus, on some level and by definition, posits the possibility of multiple, parallel universes. That is for every poem there is either a correspondent poem (o dear, back to Spicer & Lorca again), or a poem that is correspondent, but oppositional, absolutely contrary in its terms. Could a thesaurus take the universe Ron S's "Ketjak" and either create a parallel version,or, so to speak, turn the weave upside down, and reveal its antithesis through its linguistic opposites. Or maybe it's possible to read any work with its reversal of terms as part of the critical experience of reading it. It's not necessarily an anti-Authoritarian gesture, by maybe a way of enlarging the work, and taking that end of the creative responsibility as the reader of the work. So I play a little here with Zuk: one air then a host (Zukofsky, 7th stanza, A 22) (Thesaurus) (in parallel) peerless melody sequence concourse (in opposition) conjunct land regress dismember Or just an oppositional stanza: they began to exist - error if error vertigo their sun eyes delirium - both initial together rove into the blue initial surely it carves a breath Z, stanza 6, A-22) (Opposite Only) One starts to disappear - truth if truth shape our moon feet firm - one eliminates alone rams out a black double crushes wet dirt to mud Stephen V on 3/5/04 9:02 PM, Stephen Vincent at steph484@PACBELL.NET wrote: > on 3/5/04 8:25 PM, Gerald Schwartz at gejs1@ROCHESTER.RR.COM wrote: > >> Camille: > This is great! I put in "thumb" and kept getting greater arrays of > this digits various shapes, muscles and tissues. The kind of dope that magnifies > minute particulars but only in terms of names. I don't know why we > don't have a car named "OVOLO" of which the companion definition of > the word offers up - we're looking and not looking at a thumb here - > as "A convex molding having a cross section in the form of a quarter > of a circle or an ellipse." > > I mean who wouldn't want to get inside and drive an "Ovolo"? > > Thumbs up - o well - and, thank you, Camille! > > Stephen V > >> >> What great galaxies! Thank you for this shimmering gift. >> >> Cheers, >> Jerry Schwartz >>> Check out the free & imaginative online edition of the Visual >>> Thesaurus: >>> >>> http://www.visualthesaurus.com/online/index.html >>> >>> Enter a word and watch panicles of similar words branch from it. >>> Mesmerizing! It vividly illustrates what Lyn Hejinian says in "The >>> Rejection of Closure" about lexical disjunction: >>> >>> "Even words in storage, in the dictionary, seem frenetic with >>> activity, as >>> each individual entry attracts to itself other words as definition, >>> example, and amplification. . . . It is relevant that the exchanges >>> are incompletely reciprocal." >>> >>> Camille >>> >>> Camille Martin >>> 7725 Cohn St. >>> New Orleans, LA 70118 >>> (504) 861-8832 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:58:41 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ela kotkowska Subject: Re: Poet on Death Row (from the New York Times) In-Reply-To: <7D60E8EE-71BF-11D8-9C21-003065BE1640@albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit here is a couple poems by Stephen Todd Booker: http://greenfieldreview.org/books/wavesandlicense.html http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m2838/1_33/54421528/p1/article.jhtml -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Pierre Joris Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 5:47 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Poet on Death Row (from the New York Times) http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/09/books/09POET.html?8hpib ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:40:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Fwd: POV: haiti as target practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-fIEz55Mo3Wiyno75ohGy" --=-fIEz55Mo3Wiyno75ohGy Content-Type: text/plain F.Y.I. >>POV: haiti as target practice ======================== COUNTERPUNCH March 1, 2004 Haiti as Target Practice How the US Press Missed the Story By HEATHER WILLIAMS "The fact that the group in charge of Haiti policy today in the State Department has been literally gunning for Aristide since before his initial election as a champion of democracy in 1990 has been left all but unmentioned by the US press." Now that bodies are littering the streets of Cap Haitien and Port Au Prince, major print news outlets have seen well enough to send a handful of cameramen and correpondents to send back news of the crisis. Even so, the campaign of violence that has finally ousted Haitian President Aristide has been investigated and reported to the American public with appalling indolence. The official reasoning appears to be that if Haiti is the hemisphere's eternal basket case-a dismal repository of poverty where there is no future-- how on earth could its past possibly matter? But those who view Haiti's current violence as merely one of an eternal humanitarian crisis in temporary overdrive miss the story. It is no simple tale of a corrupt regime collapsing under the weight of popular anger and bad management. A cursory glance at events of the last fourteen years suggests that the fall of the Aristide regime was a foregone conclusion at the entrance of President George W. Bush and the installation of a cabal of appointees with a grim record of utilizing official and covert channels to destabilize uncooperative governments in the Western Hemisphere. What is immediately ominous about the current crisis in Haiti is the likely prospect that leaders of armed groups making a final assault on the capital will play important roles in a post-Aristide order. Such armed groups include the Tontons Macoutes, the gunmen who viciously supervised repression under both father and son Duvaliers' dictatorships until 1986. They also include members of the disbanded Haitian army that held power for three years following the coup against President Aristide in 1991, and the FRAPH death squads that mowed down the ranks of democratic civil society during that period, leaving over 3,000 dead and thousands more in exile. What is also now worrisome about this crisis is what it likely indicates about the intentions of the U.S. State Department and security apparatus elsewhere in the Caribbean. Now that Aristide's government, protected by a flimsy police force and a smattering of civilian gangs, has collapsed, quiet references in news stories and opinion pieces suggest that editors are wishing that perhaps they had a few more questions along the way about what indeed was going on in Haiti. Notably, until mid-February of this year The New York Times instructed its readers, for weeks on end, with no evidence whatsoever, that the armed groups referred to generically and occasionally quite sympathetically as "rebels" represent a home-grown anti-Aristide opposition. For weeks the New York Tinmes used AP and Reuters dispatches to present the Haitian crisis as one simply of domestic protest and unrest. It wasn't until February 15 that the NYT's own reporter, Lydia Polgreen bothered to mention that the group marching on Gonaïves known a the Cannibal Army was led by "sinister figures from [Haiti's] past," including the infamous Louis-Jodel Chamblain, a soldier who led death squads in the 1980s through the mid-1990s and was convicted in absentia for his involvement in the murder of Antoine Izméry, a well-known pro-democracy activist. Also unexplored by the same reporters were reports that the groups terrorizing Gonaïves had come from across the border, from the Dominican Republic. Given this knowledge, it is curious that no reporter then bothered to inquire how these groups obtained ample caches of brand-new M-16s, M-60s, armor piercing weapons, all-terrain vehicles, and rocket-propelled grenade launchers-equipment far beyond the reach of the Haiti's own impecunious security forces. Was the story too dangerous to investigate? Was the situation indecipherable? Was the prospect of a weak regime giving way to another in the hemisphere's poorest country just not a story worth the time and effort? The tragedy of this episode is that much of it was abundantly transparent. Running a sixty-second web search on any of the principals involved leads one to a fetid two-decade history of CIA and U.S. ultra-right subterfuge in Haiti. The fact that the group in charge of Haiti policy today in the State Department has been literally gunning for Aristide since before his initial election as a champion of democracy in 1990 has been left all but unmentioned by the press. Also forgotten is the fact that members of the armed groups burning their way through Haiti's cities today include groups that, (according to myriad sources including sworn testimony before Congress by U.S. officials, reporters, and reports of Haitian recipients of covert aid,) were funneling drugs to the U.S. while in the pay of U.S. intelligence agents. The point is not that the public has been lied to by the government. Governments lie, particularly this administration. The point is that even those on the left who are indignant about systematic misinformation elsewhere have not bothered to jog their memories on Haiti to smell the sulfur emanating from this episode,. The press apparatus reporting on the Caribbean is either too broken or too racist to remember that Haiti's anguish is connected to forces quite beyond poor judgment or even bad will by President Aristide. The ease with which armed thugs have upended a civilian regime, eliciting only murmurs of disquiet from onlookers abroad who ought to know better is cause for worry. Surely zealots in charge of U.S. foreign policy have taken note. If it's this easy to destabilize Haiti , Cuba will unquestionably appear a more viable target for direct intervention in the not-so-distant future. At least four lines of inquiry were left nearly untouched in the last four weeks of reporting of Haiti. First, no one bothered to ask who the rebels were and why they were advancing on major cities. If in fact they represented a broad opposition, as reporters readily implied or stated openly, why were the rebels unable to furnish the barest credible details of their demands, their civilian bases of support, and their connections to leaders of civil society groups? Despite literally weeks of lead time, no Haitians in positions of authority, no public figures, and no Haitian intellectuals living here or on the island emerged in press stories as sources of reliable information. Haitians who were quoted in news stories tended to be taxi drivers presumably shuttling skittish reporters from hotel to dinner, or randomly-chosen opponents of Aristide on the street. Predictably, such individuals expressed generic discontent with the government. Thus, even though a number of more respectable political opponents of President Aristide were claiming that armed groups outside the capital were not acting on their behalf, the story by default became a spurious tale of an embattled people challenging a repressive and incompetent government. Stories closer to the truth supported by evidence were likely never taken up because such messiness would necessitate a greater number of column inches than editors were going to allot to Haiti. The second instance of media negligence was the near-universal acceptance of the idea in the English-language press that Aristide's government had lost all popular legitimacy due to reported irregularities in the 2000 parliamentary elections. This is an extraordinary leap given the monkey business plaguing U.S. elections of the same year. According to Tom Reeves, the admittedly poorly-attended elections were not the stuff of grand vote larceny. "All sides," he wrote in a very fine article last fall in Dollars and Sense, "concede that Aristide won the presidential ballot with 92 percent of the voteThe sole disagreement is over run-off elections for seven senators from Aristide's part who obtained pluralities but not majorities in the first round. The seven senators eventually resigned, making way for new elections." Nonetheless, these electoral "abuses" were grounds for the Bush administration and pliant international partners in Europe to suspend hundreds of millions of dollars in credit lines and aid to Haiti. Allegations of fraud were used to permanently block the release of $400 million in already-approved loans from the Interamerican Development Bank. The IMF, World Bank, and European Union were also pressed to cut off crucial lines of credit. Meanwhile, Haiti was brutally taken to task for its external financial obligations, emptying its coffers in July 2003 to pay $32 million in debt service arrears. As a final blow, Haiti's ability to conserve any remaining foreign reserves was foreclosed by agreements signed with the U.S. government under President Clinton in 1996. These obliged Haiti to abolish tariffs on U.S. imports in the name of what was curiously called "free trade" but was in fact commodity dumping by U.S. exporters. Under threat of huge fines, Haiti was obliged to accept the import of foodstuffs priced far below the cost of production. (Direct subsidies to U.S. farmers since the mid-1990s have averaged over $30 billion a year.) In a nation where the majority of the population works in agriculture, this all but shut down production in the rice-producing northwest of Haiti, as well as among livestock producers throughout the country. Under these conditions, it stands to reason that no government could dodge the discontent of the population. The third line of neglected inquiry was the question of who the injured "opposition" was in Haiti, on whose behalf this official bloodletting took place. According to Stan Goff, whose thorough article appeared in on this Counterpunch site on February 9 of this year, the fifteen-party anti-Aristide coalition known as "Convergence" includes "every faction of the Haitian dominant class, factions who are generally at war with one another." Despite anemic support from the voting public (never approaching even 20 percent in opinion polls conducted even by the U.S.) what apparently they were able to converge on was three million dollars a year in funding in from the International Republican Institute, a Republican-party backed arm of the National Endowment for Democracy. Finally, no one has asked questions about the wildly partisan officials in U.S. State Department now running U.S. policy in the Caribbean and Latin America. These include such Blast-from-the-Past supporters of Reagan era highjinks in Central America as Otto Reich, John Negroponte, Elliot Abrams, and (before his ignominious departure last summer) John Poindexter. The most visible in recent weeks on Haiti has been Assistant Secretary of State for Western Hemisphere Affairs Roger Noriega, a man who has had Aristide in his gunsights for over a decade. As senior staff member for the Committee on Foreign Relations of the U.S. Senate, and advisor to Senator Jesse Helms and John Burton, he was party to a three-year campaign to prevent to defame Aristide and prevent his return to power; all the while CIA-backed thugs left carnage in the streets daily in Port Au Prince. In his capacity in the State Department since 2003, and for two years before that as the U.S. Permanent Representative to the OAS, he has aggressively advertised his intention to oust Aristide a second time. For example, in April of last year, speaking at the Council of the Americas conference in Washington, he linked U.S. policies in Haiti to those in Venezuela and Cuba. He congratulated the OAS for overcoming "irrelevance in the past years" by adopting the Inter-American Democratic Charter. Article 20, he said, lays out a series of actions to be takenin the event that a member state should fail to uphold the essential elements of democratic life. He added the "President Chavez and President Aristide have contributed willfully to a polarized and confrontational environment. It is my fervent hope," he added ominously, "that the good people of Cuba are studying the Democratic Charter." Given the inability of Haitians at present to question the direction of whatever succession takes place in the coming weeks, the question of how fully Noriega and his fanatical friends will control U.S. foreign policy in the Americas is crucial. Secretary of State Colin Powell has been cravenly circumspect in his statements on Haiti, straddling the line between encouraging Aristide to step down and discouraging those who would involve the U.S. extensively in any transition effort or state-building mission. What Powell's late entrance into the situation suggests strongly is that Latin America and the Caribbean are considered so insignificant that Noriega and his half-cocked cronies are generally left to play with matches until the fire alarm goes off. In this case, Florida voters were that alarm. Undoubtedly higher-ups in the White House were a bit uneasy at the prospect of thousands of Haitians fleeing chaos being thrown back into the sea by the US Coast Guard in an election year. But the modus operandi of Noriega and company is unmistakeable: fund an opposition, report every clash as repression against the population, arm pliable thugs and mercenaries in exile, embargo the government, precipitate acute crisis, play up the discontent of a hungry population, and then happily leave it to internationalist liberals to lead the charge for military intervention on humanitarian grounds. So with President Aristide neutralized now, it's time to look elsewhere, maybe west across the sea to Cuba. Heather Williams is assistant professor of politics at Pomona College. She can be reached hwilliams@pomona.edu http://www.counterpunch.org/williams03012004.html >> --=-fIEz55Mo3Wiyno75ohGy-- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:01:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anastasios@LOSTBAKLAVA.COM Subject: Re: Fwd: POV: haiti as target practice In-Reply-To: <200403091640.LAA15746@webmail3.cac.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Man, the whole Carib is that way. It doesn't matter if the Reps or Dems are in office. I worked for Amb. Dessima Williams, who was a member of the New Jewel Movement in Grenada in the 1980s. She worked for Maurice Bishop as Grenadine Amb to the US, UN, OAS, IMF, and World Bank. She was able to get declassified all State Dept. communiques dealing with Grenada during the Carter administration. One of my responsibilities was to compare what Cyrus Vance was saying in the papers vis-a-vis the actual US gov't actions behind the scenes. And, we were going into Grenada with or without the Coard coup. Grenada had set up an alternative governmental model and it was trading with Nicaragua and Cuba. Um...that's a no no in the eyes of the "good people/leaders" of Washington DC. The coup opened the door and gave Reagan an absolute green light. Same goes for Aristide. It's same old shite different day and nation in the Caribbean Basin. Kirby, no I don't have hard empirical data to share with you re: how many wealthy people in Haiti backed Aristide. --Ak Quoting ALDON L NIELSEN : > F.Y.I. > > > >>POV: haiti as target practice > ======================== > > COUNTERPUNCH > > March 1, 2004 > > > Haiti as Target Practice > > How the US Press Missed the Story > > By HEATHER WILLIAMS > > > "The fact that the group in charge of Haiti policy today in > > the State Department has been literally gunning for > > Aristide since before his initial election as a champion of democracy in > > 1990 has been left all but unmentioned by the US press." > > > Now that bodies are littering the streets of Cap Haitien > > and Port Au Prince, major print news outlets have seen well enough to > > send a handful of cameramen and correpondents to send back news of the > > crisis. Even so, the campaign of violence that has finally ousted > > Haitian President Aristide has been investigated and reported to the > > American public with appalling indolence. The official reasoning appears > > to be that if Haiti is the hemisphere's eternal basket case-a dismal > > repository of poverty where there is no future-- how on earth could its > > past possibly matter? > > > But those who view Haiti's current violence as merely one > > of an eternal humanitarian crisis in temporary overdrive > > miss the story. It is no simple tale of a corrupt regime collapsing > > under the weight of popular anger and bad management. A cursory glance > > at events of the last fourteen years suggests that the fall of the > > Aristide regime was a foregone conclusion at the entrance of President > > George W. Bush and the installation of a cabal of appointees with a grim > > record of utilizing official and covert channels to destabilize > > uncooperative governments in the Western Hemisphere. What is immediately > > ominous about the current crisis in Haiti is the likely prospect that > > leaders of armed groups making a final assault on the capital will play > > important roles in a post-Aristide order. Such armed groups include the > > Tontons Macoutes, the gunmen who viciously supervised repression under > > both father and son Duvaliers' dictatorships until 1986. They also > > include members of the disbanded Haitian army that held power for three > > years following the coup against President Aristide in 1991, and the > > FRAPH death squads that mowed down the ranks of democratic civil society > > during that period, leaving over 3,000 dead and thousands more in exile. > > What is also now worrisome about this crisis is what it likely indicates > > about the intentions of the U.S. State Department and security apparatus > > elsewhere in the Caribbean. > > > Now that Aristide's government, protected by a flimsy > > police force and a smattering of civilian gangs, has > > collapsed, quiet references in news stories and opinion > > pieces suggest that editors are wishing that perhaps they > > had a few more questions along the way about what indeed > > was going on in Haiti. Notably, until mid-February of this > > year The New York Times instructed its readers, for weeks > > on end, with no evidence whatsoever, that the armed groups referred to > > generically and occasionally quite sympathetically as "rebels" represent > > a home-grown anti-Aristide opposition. For weeks the New York Tinmes > > used AP and Reuters dispatches to present the Haitian crisis as one > > simply of domestic protest and unrest. > > > It wasn't until February 15 that the NYT's own reporter, > > Lydia Polgreen bothered to mention that the group marching > > on Gonaïves known a the Cannibal Army was led by "sinister figures from > > [Haiti's] past," including the infamous Louis-Jodel Chamblain, a soldier > > who led death squads in the 1980s through the mid-1990s and was > > convicted in absentia for his involvement in the murder of Antoine > > Izméry, a well-known pro-democracy activist. Also unexplored by the same > > reporters were reports that the groups terrorizing Gonaïves had come > > from across the border, from the Dominican Republic. Given this > > knowledge, it is curious that no reporter then bothered to inquire how > > these groups obtained ample caches of brand-new M-16s, M-60s, armor > > piercing weapons, all-terrain vehicles, and rocket-propelled grenade > > launchers-equipment far beyond the reach of the Haiti's own impecunious > > security forces. > > > Was the story too dangerous to investigate? Was the > > situation indecipherable? Was the prospect of a weak regime giving way > > to another in the hemisphere's poorest country just not a story worth > > the time and effort? The tragedy of this episode is that much of it was > > abundantly transparent. Running a sixty-second web search on any of the > > principals involved leads one to a fetid two-decade history of CIA and > > U.S. ultra-right subterfuge in Haiti. The fact that the group in charge > > of Haiti policy today in the State Department has been literally gunning > > for Aristide since before his initial election as a champion of > > democracy in 1990 has been left all but unmentioned by the press. Also > > forgotten is the fact that members of the armed groups burning their way > > through Haiti's cities today include groups that, (according to myriad > > sources including sworn testimony before Congress by U.S. officials, > > reporters, and reports of Haitian recipients of covert aid,) were > > funneling drugs to the U.S. while in the pay of U.S. intelligence > > agents. > > > The point is not that the public has been lied to by the government. > > Governments lie, particularly this administration. The point is that > > even those on the left who are indignant about systematic misinformation > > elsewhere have not bothered to jog their memories on Haiti to smell the > > sulfur emanating from this episode,. The press apparatus reporting on > > the Caribbean is either too broken or too racist to remember that > > Haiti's anguish is connected to forces quite beyond poor judgment or > > even bad will by President Aristide. The ease with which armed thugs > > have upended a civilian regime, eliciting only murmurs of disquiet from > > onlookers abroad who ought to know better is cause for worry. Surely > > zealots in charge of U.S. foreign policy have taken note. If it's this > > easy to destabilize Haiti , Cuba will unquestionably appear a more > > viable target for direct intervention in the not-so-distant future. > > > At least four lines of inquiry were left nearly untouched > > in the last four weeks of reporting of Haiti. > > > First, no one bothered to ask who the rebels were and why > > they were advancing on major cities. If in fact they represented a broad > > opposition, as reporters readily implied or stated openly, why were the > > rebels unable to furnish the barest credible details of their demands, > > their civilian bases of support, and their connections to leaders of > > civil society groups? Despite literally weeks of lead time, no Haitians > > in positions of authority, no public figures, and no Haitian > > intellectuals living here or on the island emerged in press stories as > > sources of reliable information. Haitians who were quoted in news > > stories tended to be taxi drivers presumably shuttling skittish > > reporters from hotel to dinner, or randomly-chosen opponents of Aristide > > on the street. Predictably, such individuals expressed generic > > discontent with the government. Thus, even though a number of more > > respectable political opponents of President Aristide were claiming that > > armed groups outside the capital were not acting on their behalf, the > > story by default became a spurious tale of an embattled people > > challenging a repressive and incompetent government. Stories closer to > > the truth supported by evidence were likely never taken up because such > > messiness would necessitate a greater number of column inches than > > editors were going to allot to Haiti. > > > The second instance of media negligence was the > > near-universal acceptance of the idea in the > > English-language press that Aristide's government had lost > > all popular legitimacy due to reported irregularities in > > the 2000 parliamentary elections. This is an extraordinary > > leap given the monkey business plaguing U.S. elections of > > the same year. According to Tom Reeves, the admittedly poorly-attended > > elections were not the stuff of grand vote larceny. "All sides," he > > wrote in a very fine article last fall in Dollars and Sense, "concede > > that Aristide won the presidential ballot with 92 percent of the voteThe > > sole disagreement is over run-off elections for seven senators from > > Aristide's part who obtained pluralities but not majorities in the first > > round. The seven senators eventually resigned, making way for new > > elections." > > > Nonetheless, these electoral "abuses" were grounds for the > > Bush administration and pliant international partners in > > Europe to suspend hundreds of millions of dollars in credit lines and > > aid to Haiti. Allegations of fraud were used to permanently block the > > release of $400 million in already-approved loans from the Interamerican > > Development Bank. The IMF, World Bank, and European Union were also > > pressed to cut off crucial lines of credit. Meanwhile, Haiti was > > brutally taken to task for its external financial obligations, emptying > > its coffers in July 2003 to pay $32 million in debt service arrears. As > > a final blow, Haiti's ability to conserve any remaining foreign reserves > > was foreclosed by agreements signed with the U.S. government under > > President Clinton in 1996. These obliged Haiti to abolish tariffs on > > U.S. imports in the name of what was curiously called "free trade" but > > was in fact commodity dumping by U.S. exporters. Under threat of huge > > fines, Haiti was obliged to accept the import of foodstuffs priced far > > below the cost of production. (Direct subsidies to U.S. farmers since > > the mid-1990s have averaged over $30 billion a year.) In a nation where > > the majority of the population works in agriculture, this all but shut > > down production in the rice-producing northwest of Haiti, as well as > > among livestock producers throughout the country. Under these > > conditions, it stands to reason that no government could dodge the > > discontent of the population. > > > The third line of neglected inquiry was the question of who > > the injured "opposition" was in Haiti, on whose behalf this official > > bloodletting took place. According to Stan Goff, whose thorough article > > appeared in on this Counterpunch site on February 9 of this year, the > > fifteen-party anti-Aristide coalition known as "Convergence" includes > > "every faction of the Haitian dominant class, factions who are generally > > at war with one another." Despite anemic support from the voting public > > (never approaching even 20 percent in opinion polls conducted even by > > the U.S.) what apparently they were able to converge on was three > > million dollars a year in funding in from the International Republican > > Institute, a Republican-party backed arm of the National Endowment for > > Democracy. > > > Finally, no one has asked questions about the wildly > > partisan officials in U.S. State Department now running > > U.S. policy in the Caribbean and Latin America. These > > include such Blast-from-the-Past supporters of Reagan era highjinks in > > Central America as Otto Reich, John Negroponte, Elliot Abrams, and > > (before his ignominious departure last summer) John Poindexter. The most > > visible in recent weeks on Haiti has been Assistant Secretary of State > > for Western Hemisphere Affairs Roger Noriega, a man who has had Aristide > > in his gunsights for over a decade. As senior staff member for the > > Committee on Foreign Relations of the U.S. Senate, and advisor to > > Senator Jesse Helms and John Burton, he was party to a three-year > > campaign to prevent to defame Aristide and prevent his return to power; > > all the while CIA-backed thugs left carnage in the streets daily in Port > > Au Prince. In his capacity in the State Department since 2003, and for > > two years before that as the U.S. Permanent Representative to the OAS, > > he has aggressively advertised his intention to oust Aristide a second > > time. > > > For example, in April of last year, speaking at the Council > > of the Americas conference in Washington, he linked U.S. policies in > > Haiti to those in Venezuela and Cuba. He congratulated the OAS for > > overcoming "irrelevance in the past years" by adopting the > > Inter-American Democratic Charter. Article 20, he said, lays out a > > series of actions to be takenin the event that a member state should > > fail to uphold the essential elements of democratic life. He added the > > "President Chavez and President Aristide have contributed willfully to a > > polarized and confrontational environment. It is my fervent hope," he > > added ominously, "that the good people of Cuba are studying the > > Democratic Charter." > > > Given the inability of Haitians at present to question the direction of > > whatever succession takes place in the coming weeks, the question of how > > fully Noriega and his fanatical friends will control U.S. foreign policy > > in the Americas is crucial. Secretary of State Colin Powell has been > > cravenly circumspect in his statements on Haiti, straddling the line > > between encouraging Aristide to step down and discouraging those who > > would involve the U.S. extensively in any transition effort or > > state-building mission. What Powell's late entrance into the situation > > suggests strongly is that Latin America and the Caribbean are considered > > so insignificant that Noriega and his half-cocked cronies are generally > > left to play with matches until the fire alarm goes off. In this case, > > Florida voters were that alarm. Undoubtedly higher-ups in the White > > House were a bit uneasy at the prospect of thousands of Haitians fleeing > > chaos being thrown back into the sea by the US Coast Guard in an > > election year. But the modus operandi of Noriega and company is > > unmistakeable: fund an opposition, report every clash as repression > > against the population, arm pliable thugs and mercenaries in exile, > > embargo the government, precipitate acute crisis, play up the discontent > > of a hungry population, and then happily leave it to internationalist > > liberals to lead the charge for military intervention on humanitarian > > grounds. So with President Aristide neutralized now, it's time to look > > elsewhere, maybe west across the sea to Cuba. > > > Heather Williams is assistant professor > > of politics at Pomona College. She can > > be reached hwilliams@pomona.edu > > > http://www.counterpunch.org/williams03012004.html >> > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:08:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd In-Reply-To: <000001c40553$c092ff20$5d016ace@satellite> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Besides Hart Crane in 1932 returning from Mexico + Spalding this year -- >what other literary characters have 'jumped ship' to meet an untimely >demise? Albert Ayler was found, if i have it right, in the east River, but I dont know how he got there. -- George Bowering Favors Truman over Dewey. 303 Fielden Ave. Port Colborne. ON, L3K 4T5 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:21:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: visual thesaurus In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Yesterday evening - in talking with an IT person who happened to be Belgian - he let me know two additional things I did not know about the VT: 1. It operates like other search engines (Google, etc.) and picks up the associative words across the web in a similar manner. (We did not have time to explore that further). In other words, no one or group "wrote" this Thesaurus. 2. That the Visual Thesaurus can be used for any other language, as well. He uses it when he is writing it in French. I tried it this morning with a couple of French words and nothing came up for "larme" or "chemin". "Poulet" came up bi-lingual, "chicken" and "volaille." Does anyone know who to get the Visual Thesaurus to go "French" or any other language? Some words in English do not come up with anything. Ironically nothing for "other". Stephen V on 3/5/04 11:37 AM, Camille Martin at cmarti3@LSU.EDU wrote: > Check out the free & imaginative online edition of the Visual Thesaurus: > > http://www.visualthesaurus.com/online/index.html > > Enter a word and watch panicles of similar words branch from it. > Mesmerizing! It vividly illustrates what Lyn Hejinian says in "The > Rejection of Closure" about lexical disjunction: > > "Even words in storage, in the dictionary, seem frenetic with activity, as > each individual entry attracts to itself other words as definition, > example, and amplification. . . . It is relevant that the exchanges are > incompletely reciprocal." > > Camille > > Camille Martin > 7725 Cohn St. > New Orleans, LA 70118 > (504) 861-8832 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:46:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: Challenge, but no awards. MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Here's three Zukofsky poems in Basque, courtesy Harry Gilonis in London. The first should, as Harry says, be easy enough to guess. ====== 1. ANEW #21. Eguzki izpi batek zapuzten ote du bere helburua Pentsatzean sakon edo ilun agertuz gero? Ikus eguzki, eta pentsa itzal. +++++ 2. ANEW #33. Gidatu, musuak arin, ikusi beharrik ez eskuak edo betileak ahoa neskaren belarrian zuhaitzak edo hostoak gau edo egunak. +++++ 3. THE CHALLENGE POEM. Zatoz itzal, zatoz, eta jaso itzal hau gora, Zatoz itzal itzal, zatoz eta jaso hau gora, Zatoz, itzal, zatoz, eta jaso itzal hau gora, Zatoz, zatoz itzal, eta jaso itzal hau gora, Zatoz, zatoz eta itzal, jaso itzal hau gora, Zatoz, gora, zatoz itzal eta jaso itzal hau, Eta gora, zatoz, jaso itzal, zatoz itzal hau, Eta gora, zatoz, zatoz itzal, jaso itzal hau, Eta zatoz itzal, zatoz gora, jaso itzal hau, Zatoz gora, zatoz hau itzal, eta jaso itzal, Gora, hau itzal, zatoz eta jaso itzal, zatoz Hau itzal, jaso eta zatoz gora itzal, zatoz Jaso eta zatoz, itzal, zatoz gora, hau itzal, Gora, zatoz eta jaso itzal, zatoz itzal hau, Zatoz gora, jaso itzal, eta zatoz itzal hau, Zatoz eta jaso itzal, zatoz itzal hau gora, Itzal, itzal zatoz, zatoz eta jaso hau gora, Zatoz, itzal, jaso, eta zatoz itzal hau, gora, Zatoz itzal, zatoz, eta jaso itzal hau gora, Zatoz, itzal, zatoz, eta jaso itzal hau gora. +++++++++ Now: anyone for, um, Inuit? Cree? Swahili? ======================================= "Within the memory of a rose no gardener has been known to die" Bernard le Bovier de Fontenelle. ======================================= Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver B.C. Canada V6A 1Y7 voice 604 255 8274 fax 604 255 8204 quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca ======================================= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:00:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Challenge, but no awards. Comments: To: quarterm@INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I love them! m www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com >>> quarterm@INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA 03/09/04 12:51 PM >>> Here's three Zukofsky poems in Basque, courtesy Harry Gilonis in London. The first should, as Harry says, be easy enough to guess. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 1. ANEW #21. Eguzki izpi batek zapuzten ote du bere helburua Pentsatzean sakon edo ilun agertuz gero? Ikus eguzki, eta pentsa itzal. +++++ 2. ANEW #33. Gidatu, musuak arin, ikusi beharrik ez eskuak edo betileak ahoa neskaren belarrian zuhaitzak edo hostoak gau edo egunak. +++++ 3. THE CHALLENGE POEM. Zatoz itzal, zatoz, eta jaso itzal hau gora, Zatoz itzal itzal, zatoz eta jaso hau gora, Zatoz, itzal, zatoz, eta jaso itzal hau gora, Zatoz, zatoz itzal, eta jaso itzal hau gora, Zatoz, zatoz eta itzal, jaso itzal hau gora, Zatoz, gora, zatoz itzal eta jaso itzal hau, Eta gora, zatoz, jaso itzal, zatoz itzal hau, Eta gora, zatoz, zatoz itzal, jaso itzal hau, Eta zatoz itzal, zatoz gora, jaso itzal hau, Zatoz gora, zatoz hau itzal, eta jaso itzal, Gora, hau itzal, zatoz eta jaso itzal, zatoz Hau itzal, jaso eta zatoz gora itzal, zatoz Jaso eta zatoz, itzal, zatoz gora, hau itzal, Gora, zatoz eta jaso itzal, zatoz itzal hau, Zatoz gora, jaso itzal, eta zatoz itzal hau, Zatoz eta jaso itzal, zatoz itzal hau gora, Itzal, itzal zatoz, zatoz eta jaso hau gora, Zatoz, itzal, jaso, eta zatoz itzal hau, gora, Zatoz itzal, zatoz, eta jaso itzal hau gora, Zatoz, itzal, zatoz, eta jaso itzal hau gora. +++++++++ Now: anyone for, um, Inuit? Cree? Swahili? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "Within the memory of a rose no gardener has been known to die" Bernard le Bovier de Fontenelle. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver B.C. Canada V6A 1Y7 voice 604 255 8274 fax 604 255 8204 quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:03:56 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "D. Ross Priddle" Subject: medicine #1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII here's *medicine* #1: http://www3.telus.net/van364/hat.htm %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:10:51 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Haiti as Conundrum w/ QUESTION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Aldon, Anastasios and others interested in the politics of Haiti -- What Heather Williams is saying is pretty much what I thought was going on in Haiti. I saw a film about twenty years ago on US Business interests in Haiti. The film was done by a communist outfit but was intelligent and well-documented. It argued several things simultaneously (I think the film was called Haiti: Powder Keg of the Caribbean). 1. Lower-level American jobs are leaving to go to what I believe they called "warehouse states" such as Haiti and the Philippines, where you can get people who are starving to work for subsistence wages. This is bad for American workers because all those jobs are lost, and they never come back. 2. It is also bad for the workers in the countries that multinational corporations are occupying, such as Haiti, because the multinational corporations are so powerful that the locals couldn't possibly stand up to them in any meaningful way, and the local countries' dictators HAVE to take what pitiful US bribes are offered, in order to man their own militia to prevent popular uprisings among their impoverished workers. (This is where I suspect Aristide was not playing ball -- refusing to take the bribes, and in his own way trying to get the deal to work better for the average Haitian -- he was afterall a man of God -- and this has to have been his agenda.) 3. Where I didn't buy the film, and where I thought it went way offtrack, was in arguing that Haiti should go communist. You know, a central party, with a "secretary" in whom all power is vested, but an enlightened despot, along the lines of Plato's philosopher-king. I'm so tired of that idea -- it has never worked -- the only person who can get such a spot has to be a ruthless bastard willing to kill all opposition such as Stalin, Pol Pot, Hoxha, Mao, you name it. The Marxist system simply doesn't work, and never will, at least not as it has been classically put into operation throughout the last pitiful century. WHAT DOES? That is my question. But I want to preface it with a little political history. Most of our thinking in the left now comes out of a watershed or two. One is Marx. There are many on this listserv who still think Marx had some good ideas. What were they? Why is it that they have never played out n any positive algorhythm? Is there something that that man thought that is still useful? Our most recent watershed is the Tel Quel Maoists of 68 -- Kristeva, Barthes, Foucault, Derrida, Sollers, and so on. They lookd to Mao. Kristeva wrote a terrible book about Mao's genius -- Chinese Women. It's a disturbing book because it's so completely stupid. Nobody reads it any longer, but she actually thought Maoism was going to lead to utopia. She has recently written a book saying that Charles de Gaulle was the best political mind of her era. She's flip-flopped completely, in other words. Foucault gave AIDS to other men after he knew he had it himself. He also suggests that molesting children is a good idea (pp. 33-34) in History of Sexuality, part one. I don't see anything useful in his work. I see a lot that will lead to a total breakdown of community in favor of selfish pleasure. I think children should be first in a society, and that adults' job is to grow up and serve them. Barthes was mown down by a laundry truck but in his later work was moving out of political models into aesthetics. Derrida is moving into discussions of Judaism which I haven't read. Having read his early work, I don't think any of it would interest me. In Slovenia, one of our more recent leftist geniuses, Slavoj Zizek, is writing books such as The Fragile Absolute: Why the Christian Legacy is Worth Fighting For -- he has only a tangential understanding of Christianity, but these books are interesting because they move in unpredictable ways toward an acceptance of the Christian ethos.. They are parallel in fact to my work in this area of trying to build a Christian (specifically Lutheran) surrealism. As I go through this list, I wonder about the politics of the different combatants. Part of the lapse of theory is that nobody stresses these questions any longer. Maybe nobody knows any thing about philosophy any more, or never did. Are there any SPECIFIC ideas in Trotsky, Mao, etc., that anybody would still stand by? I read all these people in graduate school, and was floored by how authoritarian it was. In 1975 or so, when LANGUAGE started, they were citing Marx and others a lot. Silliman's theory seemed to be based in a control of the distribution of poetry or something (I never really understood it). Now in Silliman's blog, for instance, he almost never cites any political philosophers. He seems to be primarily interested in aesthetics. I occasionally get back channel blasts from elderly leftists who hold up Finland and Scandinavia in order to hoist me with my own petard. It's true I love Finland, but for heaven's sake, it is a democracy, and it is moving to the right. They're scrapping the welfare state before everybody turns into a state-sponsored drunk. It is still much cushier than America for the poor, and probably nobody there can even conceive of what it's like to be really poor in America, much less Haiti. I think the basic thread of the Scandinavian democracies is based on a Lutheranism that goes back deep into the centuries. It takes centuries to build a common base of ideas. Today those ideas are being unravelled or forgotten in Finland by many in Helsinki, but the ethos remains very very strong in the rural areas. It seems to me that the generation before mine in America really only believed in sex. The only church was sex. The only source of ultimate meaning. Family, children, communities, went to pieces. Part of my project is to recuperate Lutheranism, but also Locke, and other Christian-based philosophies. Those people had good ideas. I'll cite one: Locke's idea that there are four things a government should protect: Life, liberty, health, and possessions, would be a useful thing to think about in terms of who gets to run Haiti. I don't know any other better list. It appears to me that the "rebels" are not respecting ANY of these four basic and what Locke calls "God-given" rights. Locke made this country function. Marxism doesn't function. Locke can unlock the mystery of the universal misery index, and explain why Haiti is on the bottom. Marxism is just a muddle of confusion. Anastasios says there are decent aristocrats in Haiti. According to Marxism, that shouldn't be the case. These decent people must be actual Christians, along the lines of Aristide himself. Is there some clear and specific update to that Manichean system of the good worker and the bad owner in Marxism that I have missed? Or are there new leftist ideas or philosophers that I should read? Luther's ideas of two kingdoms are still workable, and they are why I object to most Christian orders who want the kingdom to be here on earth right now. That nut Koresh with his hideous notions stemming from Seventh-Day Adventism, for instance. He apparently thought that he himself was the Second Coming. How easily thought leads to disaster, and how hard it is to come up with a workable and functioning political philosophy. I think the precious legacy of the west is worth fighting for. No flaming, now. -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:34:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Durgin Subject: new from Kenning - Lorenzo Thomas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit TIME STEP Kenning Editions / Digressions Author: Thomas, Lorenzo PAPERBACK Pub. Date: 2004 No ISBN Price $7.50 Poetry. African American Studies. Limited to an edition of 100, this new chapbook by Houston-based poet Lorenzo Thomas is subtitled "5 Poems, 4 Seasons." But the seasons are many in this work: the seasons of Thomas's personal history, the seasons of political struggle and African American consciousness, the seasons of war and peace, and even the literal seasons. "A boy's job / is to listen to the old men lie / & learn the music . . ."--from "Equinox." Limited edition of 100, saddle- stapled chapbook. Order from Small Press Distribution - www.spdbooks.org / 800-869-7553. OR: Direct mailorders (checks made payable to Patrick Durgin), $7.50 per, postage paid, and including a recent edition of Laynie Brown's "Two Sonnets," a handmade pamphlet from No Press (a division of Kenning Editions), while supplies last. Send to Patrick Durgin, 1197 Euclid Avenue suite C, Berkeley CA 94708. Mention you saw this special offer on the Buffalo poetics list. Still available: HOVERCRAFT, by K. Silem Mohammad ($6.00), Kenning 13: the send-off issue feat. the "critical paranoia" and Zukofsky columns, contributors include Robert Creeley, David Larsen, Susan Schultz, Nathaniel Tarn, Brian Kim Stefans, etc etc ($6.00). HOVERCRAFT and Kenning 13 are available solely from SPD. www.durationpress.com/kenning ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:37:30 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ray Johnson >> Besides Hart Crane in 1932 returning from Mexico + Spalding this year >> -- >> what other literary characters have 'jumped ship' to meet an untimely >> demise? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:38:01 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: messages from Maria Damon In-Reply-To: <17775640.1078672513@[192.168.1.47]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" thanks for the feedback on everyone's projects, everyone. it's inspiring to know lots of folks are busy using their creative and intellectual gifts. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:29:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Wheeler Subject: Carol Muske-Dukes and Susan Wheeler Reading 3/16 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Carol Muske-Dukes and Susan Wheeler Tuesday, March 16, 2004, 7pm, FREE Red Room Reading Series @ Monkey Temple 558 Broome Street, between 6th Avenue and Varick Street. Subway: C or E to Spring Street or 1/9 to Houston Street Phone: 646-613-1620 Carol Muske-Dukes is author of seven books of poetry, most recently Sparrow (Random House, 2003) and An Octave Above Thunder (Penguin, 1997). She has also written three novels: Dear Digby, Saving St. Germ, and Life After Death as well as two books of essays, including 2002's Married to the Icepick Killer, A Poet in Hollywood. A regular critic for the New York Times Book Review and the Los Angeles Times Book Review, she is professor of English and Creative Writing at the University of Southern California. Susan Wheeler is the author of three books of poetry, most recently Source Codes from Salt Publishing. Her novel, Record Palace, is forthcoming from Graywolf Press. The recipient of a Guggenheim Fellowship and the Witter Bynner Prize for Poetry from the American Academy of Arts and Letters, she teaches at Princeton University and is on the graduate faculties in creative writing at The New School and Columbia University. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:49:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jon Thompson Subject: New Poetry Series Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable New Poetry Series FREE VERSE: A JOURNAL OF CONTEMPORARY POETRY & POETICS and Parlor Press are pleased to announce a new poetry series, Free Verse Editions. Our aim is to publish 3-5 ground-breaking, handsomely-produced collections per year. Translations are welcomed. For guidelines and submission information, please visit Parlor Press=B9s web site at: http://www.parlorpress.com/freeverse/index.html For an idea of the kind of poetry that Free Verse Editions will take an interest in, visit the journal at: http://english.chass.ncsu.edu/freeverse/ Manuscripts should be postmarked no later than June 15, 2004. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:53:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Haiti as Conundrum w/ QUESTION Comments: To: Kirby Olson In-Reply-To: <404E08AB.9C5E16EB@delhi.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I hope others will do as Kirby has done and lay out their world leader pretend agenda. This is not a flame, since Michael Stipe used the line in a song on REM's Green. And I would argue simply that any society that works has a commons. By that I mean more than common values and common goals (which actually it cannot have all the way down), but common property. Otherwise, it is everyone for themselves and god against us all. I think this position is compatible with Rawlsian liberalism. I also continue to stand by the Trotskyite notion of permanent revolution, though I think he borrowed this from Luxembourg and the Russian Formalists. yours in the struggle, Robert -- Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop UW Box: 351237 On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Kirby Olson wrote: > Aldon, Anastasios and others interested in the politics of Haiti -- > > What Heather Williams is saying is pretty much what I thought was going on in > Haiti. I saw a film about twenty years ago on US Business interests in Haiti. The > film was done by a communist outfit but was intelligent and well-documented. It > argued several things simultaneously (I think the film was called Haiti: Powder Keg > of the Caribbean). > > 1. Lower-level American jobs are leaving to go to what I believe they called > "warehouse states" such as Haiti and the Philippines, where you can get people who > are starving to work for subsistence wages. This is bad for American workers > because all those jobs are lost, and they never come back. > > 2. It is also bad for the workers in the countries that multinational corporations > are occupying, such as Haiti, because the multinational corporations are so > powerful that the locals couldn't possibly stand up to them in any meaningful way, > and the local countries' dictators HAVE to take what pitiful US bribes are offered, > in order to man their own militia to prevent popular uprisings among their > impoverished workers. > > (This is where I suspect Aristide was not playing ball -- refusing to take the > bribes, and in his own way trying to get the deal to work better for the average > Haitian -- he was afterall a man of God -- and this has to have been his agenda.) > > 3. Where I didn't buy the film, and where I thought it went way offtrack, was in > arguing that Haiti should go communist. You know, a central party, with a > "secretary" in whom all power is vested, but an enlightened despot, along the lines > of Plato's philosopher-king. I'm so tired of that idea -- it has never worked -- > the only person who can get such a spot has to be a ruthless bastard willing to > kill all opposition such as Stalin, Pol Pot, Hoxha, Mao, you name it. The Marxist > system simply doesn't work, and never will, at least not as it has been classically > put into operation throughout the last pitiful century. > > WHAT DOES? > > That is my question. But I want to preface it with a little political history. > Most of our thinking in the left now comes out of a watershed or two. One is > Marx. There are many on this listserv who still think Marx had some good ideas. > What were they? Why is it that they have never played out n any positive > algorhythm? Is there something that that man thought that is still useful? > > Our most recent watershed is the Tel Quel Maoists of 68 -- Kristeva, Barthes, > Foucault, Derrida, Sollers, and so on. They lookd to Mao. Kristeva wrote a > terrible book about Mao's genius -- Chinese Women. It's a disturbing book because > it's so completely stupid. Nobody reads it any longer, but she actually thought > Maoism was going to lead to utopia. She has recently written a book saying that > Charles de Gaulle was the best political mind of her era. She's flip-flopped > completely, in other words. > > Foucault gave AIDS to other men after he knew he had it himself. He also suggests > that molesting children is a good idea (pp. 33-34) in History of Sexuality, part > one. I don't see anything useful in his work. I see a lot that will lead to a > total breakdown of community in favor of selfish pleasure. I think children should > be first in a society, and that adults' job is to grow up and serve them. > > Barthes was mown down by a laundry truck but in his later work was moving out of > political models into aesthetics. > > Derrida is moving into discussions of Judaism which I haven't read. Having read > his early work, I don't think any of it would interest me. > > In Slovenia, one of our more recent leftist geniuses, Slavoj Zizek, is writing > books such as The Fragile Absolute: Why the Christian Legacy is Worth Fighting For > -- he has only a tangential understanding of Christianity, but these books are > interesting because they move in unpredictable ways toward an acceptance of the > Christian ethos.. > > They are parallel in fact to my work in this area of trying to build a Christian > (specifically Lutheran) surrealism. > > As I go through this list, I wonder about the politics of the different > combatants. Part of the lapse of theory is that nobody stresses these questions > any longer. Maybe nobody knows any thing about philosophy any more, or never did. > > Are there any SPECIFIC ideas in Trotsky, Mao, etc., that anybody would still stand > by? > > I read all these people in graduate school, and was floored by how authoritarian it > was. In 1975 or so, when LANGUAGE started, they were citing Marx and others a > lot. Silliman's theory seemed to be based in a control of the distribution of > poetry or something (I never really understood it). Now in Silliman's blog, for > instance, he almost never cites any political philosophers. He seems to be > primarily interested in aesthetics. > > I occasionally get back channel blasts from elderly leftists who hold up Finland > and Scandinavia in order to hoist me with my own petard. It's true I love Finland, > but for heaven's sake, it is a democracy, and it is moving to the right. They're > scrapping the welfare state before everybody turns into a state-sponsored drunk. > It is still much cushier than America for the poor, and probably nobody there can > even conceive of what it's like to be really poor in America, much less Haiti. > > I think the basic thread of the Scandinavian democracies is based on a Lutheranism > that goes back deep into the centuries. It takes centuries to build a common base > of ideas. Today those ideas are being unravelled or forgotten in Finland by many > in Helsinki, but the ethos remains very very strong in the rural areas. > > It seems to me that the generation before mine in America really only believed in > sex. The only church was sex. The only source of ultimate meaning. Family, > children, communities, went to pieces. > > Part of my project is to recuperate Lutheranism, but also Locke, and other > Christian-based philosophies. Those people had good ideas. I'll cite one: > > Locke's idea that there are four things a government should protect: > > Life, liberty, health, and possessions, would be a useful thing to think about in > terms of who gets to run Haiti. > > I don't know any other better list. It appears to me that the "rebels" are not > respecting ANY of these four basic and what Locke calls "God-given" rights. > > Locke made this country function. Marxism doesn't function. Locke can unlock the > mystery of the universal misery index, and explain why Haiti is on the bottom. > > Marxism is just a muddle of confusion. Anastasios says there are decent aristocrats > in Haiti. According to Marxism, that shouldn't be the case. These decent people > must be actual Christians, along the lines of Aristide himself. > > Is there some clear and specific update to that Manichean system of the good worker > and the bad owner in Marxism that I have missed? Or are there new leftist ideas or > philosophers that I should read? > > Luther's ideas of two kingdoms are still workable, and they are why I object to > most Christian orders who want the kingdom to be here on earth right now. That nut > Koresh with his hideous notions stemming from Seventh-Day Adventism, for instance. > He apparently thought that he himself was the Second Coming. How easily thought > leads to disaster, and how hard it is to come up with a workable and functioning > political philosophy. I think the precious legacy of the west is worth fighting > for. > > No flaming, now. > > > > -- Kirby Olson > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:32:10 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cyrill Duneau Subject: this is not the Ain Sof Comments: To: Eric Byrne , delbarre , "mayakovsky@yahoogroups.com" , "mimetic@bluewin.ch" , Situationist , Chester Winowiecki , john younge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The somber reptile solemn and mournful boy's bird ___ Impact on steal at twilight day, even way out here in vermont collapse is an objective process the mark will be missed by all... horizontal horse blitz and warnings of risk is this woman-real? But now this victimized fabric becomes a burden the last of the romantics falls in extra time Estética Métrica | Television 4.15pm Arrival dust will return to the air, as Heidegger somewhere said "we are sorry you decided to leave our group." (whistling trains in the distance, sadly like thrown stones) that occurs is between consenting adults This is the hard truth about structural open-source integrity that the radical right does not display Be gentle. Problem of several data sets to visualize images of our Directory of Bibles | Service Packs | Support | Company | News using 13 different criteria The New Thesaurus reminders of danger Angel - / Garden 4. Clicked on "Reactivate" a year or so ago the altar of television followed on island 04feb04 (Local Time) When what is done cannot be undone Ex-mates brought me poison dead late-nighters space up fiberglass resin angels Is anyone familliar with this? we have to accept a rather bizzare reality without incremental firesides you will be redirected to Road 181 in the papers vis-a-vis prison 400 vigil geophysical sounds recorded by means of seismic sensors [Definition: [adj] doomed to extinction] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:06:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dactyl Foundation Subject: Genuis of (Mis)Translation @ Dactyl Foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Parallels & Correspondences Chinese & Chilean English & Spanish If meaning between two languages is incommensurable, the translator may be forced to expand the target language by intentional mistranslation. This is one of the few ways truly new meaning can be created. As a tribute to the creative Genius of (Mis)Translation we present David Hinton, a translator of ancient Chinese poetry Cecilia Vicuña, a Chilean poet who performs multilingually & John Thompson, who plays the guqin, instrument of China's ancient poets Saturday, March 13, 2004 beginning with wine & music 7 p.m. suggested donation $8 Dactyl Foundation for the Arts & Humanities 64 Grand Street (Wooster/West Broadway) SoHo, NYC 212 219-2344 http://www.dactyl.org David Hinton has translated over a dozen volumes of Chinese poetry and philosophy. The most recent of these are: Mountain Home: The Wilderness Poetry of Ancient China and The Mountain Poems of Meng Hao-Jan. Hinton has been awarded a Guggenheim Fellowship, as well as numerous fellowships from The National Endowment for the Arts and The National Endowment for the Humanities. He has also been awarded the Landon Translation Award by The Academy of American Poets. Hinton will read from his Fossil Sky, a hybrid of visual art and poetry, its text composed on a single 53-square-inch sheet. Chilean poet Cecilia Vicuña is the author of fourteen poetry books, including: Instan, El Templo, Cloud-Net, UL, Four Mapuche Poets, QUIPOem/ The Precarious, The Art and Poetry of Cecilia Vicuña, Word & Thread, ALABRARmas/WURDWAPINschaw, and Unravelling Words & The Weaving of Water. Her honors include: The Pennies from Heaven Award, The Anonymous Was a Woman Award, The Lila Wallace-Reader's Digest Arts International Award, The Fund for Poetry Award, and The Human Rights Award from the Fund for Free Expression in New York. John Thompson is the best known performer of early music for the guqin ("goo chin"), a Chinese silk string zither that was the instrument most favored by Chinese philosophers and aesthetes. He has focused on early repertoire, personally reconstructing over 120 melodies published in 15th and 16th century handbooks. In 1992, he was invited by the National Union of Chinese Musicians as the focus of a seminar on reconstructing music from the earliest surviving qin handbook, Shen Qi Mi Pu. While based in Hong Kong as artistic consultant to the Festival of Asian Arts he performed throughout East Asia, and published seven CDs of his musical reconstructions as well as four books of music transcription. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:34:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Re: Haiti as Conundrum w/ QUESTION Comments: To: Kirby Olson In-Reply-To: <404E08AB.9C5E16EB@delhi.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Kirby--The Heather Williams piece does suggest that you were on the right track with your good question about who the heck these unnamed "rebels" are, but in other ways your comments seem to cut against the grain of her analysis. Your repeated characterization of the country as a kind of irredeemable shithole of "bad history" seems to be just the attitude she's lamenting, in so far as it encourages one to just throw one's hands up in despair. That's not entirely fair to you, though, since you *are* still asking what's to be done. But Williams's analysis of what we have *already* done suggests possibilities you're ignoring. Let me just quote her last paragraph as a recap: But the modus operandi of Noriega and company is > > unmistakeable: fund an opposition, report every clash as repression > > against the population, arm pliable thugs and mercenaries in exile, > > embargo the government, precipitate acute crisis, play up the discontent > > of a hungry population, and then happily leave it to internationalist > > liberals to lead the charge for military intervention on humanitarian > > grounds. So with President Aristide neutralized now, it's time to look > > elsewhere, maybe west across the sea to Cuba. > It seems that if we would just *refrain* from doing this sort of stuff, it would be a step in the right direction... steve On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Kirby Olson wrote: > Aldon, Anastasios and others interested in the politics of Haiti -- > > What Heather Williams is saying is pretty much what I thought was going on in > Haiti. I saw a film about twenty years ago on US Business interests in Haiti. The > film was done by a communist outfit but was intelligent and well-documented. It > argued several things simultaneously (I think the film was called Haiti: Powder Keg > of the Caribbean). > > 1. Lower-level American jobs are leaving to go to what I believe they called > "warehouse states" such as Haiti and the Philippines, where you can get people who > are starving to work for subsistence wages. This is bad for American workers > because all those jobs are lost, and they never come back. > > 2. It is also bad for the workers in the countries that multinational corporations > are occupying, such as Haiti, because the multinational corporations are so > powerful that the locals couldn't possibly stand up to them in any meaningful way, > and the local countries' dictators HAVE to take what pitiful US bribes are offered, > in order to man their own militia to prevent popular uprisings among their > impoverished workers. > > (This is where I suspect Aristide was not playing ball -- refusing to take the > bribes, and in his own way trying to get the deal to work better for the average > Haitian -- he was afterall a man of God -- and this has to have been his agenda.) > > 3. Where I didn't buy the film, and where I thought it went way offtrack, was in > arguing that Haiti should go communist. You know, a central party, with a > "secretary" in whom all power is vested, but an enlightened despot, along the lines > of Plato's philosopher-king. I'm so tired of that idea -- it has never worked -- > the only person who can get such a spot has to be a ruthless bastard willing to > kill all opposition such as Stalin, Pol Pot, Hoxha, Mao, you name it. The Marxist > system simply doesn't work, and never will, at least not as it has been classically > put into operation throughout the last pitiful century. > > WHAT DOES? > > That is my question. But I want to preface it with a little political history. > Most of our thinking in the left now comes out of a watershed or two. One is > Marx. There are many on this listserv who still think Marx had some good ideas. > What were they? Why is it that they have never played out n any positive > algorhythm? Is there something that that man thought that is still useful? > > Our most recent watershed is the Tel Quel Maoists of 68 -- Kristeva, Barthes, > Foucault, Derrida, Sollers, and so on. They lookd to Mao. Kristeva wrote a > terrible book about Mao's genius -- Chinese Women. It's a disturbing book because > it's so completely stupid. Nobody reads it any longer, but she actually thought > Maoism was going to lead to utopia. She has recently written a book saying that > Charles de Gaulle was the best political mind of her era. She's flip-flopped > completely, in other words. > > Foucault gave AIDS to other men after he knew he had it himself. He also suggests > that molesting children is a good idea (pp. 33-34) in History of Sexuality, part > one. I don't see anything useful in his work. I see a lot that will lead to a > total breakdown of community in favor of selfish pleasure. I think children should > be first in a society, and that adults' job is to grow up and serve them. > > Barthes was mown down by a laundry truck but in his later work was moving out of > political models into aesthetics. > > Derrida is moving into discussions of Judaism which I haven't read. Having read > his early work, I don't think any of it would interest me. > > In Slovenia, one of our more recent leftist geniuses, Slavoj Zizek, is writing > books such as The Fragile Absolute: Why the Christian Legacy is Worth Fighting For > -- he has only a tangential understanding of Christianity, but these books are > interesting because they move in unpredictable ways toward an acceptance of the > Christian ethos.. > > They are parallel in fact to my work in this area of trying to build a Christian > (specifically Lutheran) surrealism. > > As I go through this list, I wonder about the politics of the different > combatants. Part of the lapse of theory is that nobody stresses these questions > any longer. Maybe nobody knows any thing about philosophy any more, or never did. > > Are there any SPECIFIC ideas in Trotsky, Mao, etc., that anybody would still stand > by? > > I read all these people in graduate school, and was floored by how authoritarian it > was. In 1975 or so, when LANGUAGE started, they were citing Marx and others a > lot. Silliman's theory seemed to be based in a control of the distribution of > poetry or something (I never really understood it). Now in Silliman's blog, for > instance, he almost never cites any political philosophers. He seems to be > primarily interested in aesthetics. > > I occasionally get back channel blasts from elderly leftists who hold up Finland > and Scandinavia in order to hoist me with my own petard. It's true I love Finland, > but for heaven's sake, it is a democracy, and it is moving to the right. They're > scrapping the welfare state before everybody turns into a state-sponsored drunk. > It is still much cushier than America for the poor, and probably nobody there can > even conceive of what it's like to be really poor in America, much less Haiti. > > I think the basic thread of the Scandinavian democracies is based on a Lutheranism > that goes back deep into the centuries. It takes centuries to build a common base > of ideas. Today those ideas are being unravelled or forgotten in Finland by many > in Helsinki, but the ethos remains very very strong in the rural areas. > > It seems to me that the generation before mine in America really only believed in > sex. The only church was sex. The only source of ultimate meaning. Family, > children, communities, went to pieces. > > Part of my project is to recuperate Lutheranism, but also Locke, and other > Christian-based philosophies. Those people had good ideas. I'll cite one: > > Locke's idea that there are four things a government should protect: > > Life, liberty, health, and possessions, would be a useful thing to think about in > terms of who gets to run Haiti. > > I don't know any other better list. It appears to me that the "rebels" are not > respecting ANY of these four basic and what Locke calls "God-given" rights. > > Locke made this country function. Marxism doesn't function. Locke can unlock the > mystery of the universal misery index, and explain why Haiti is on the bottom. > > Marxism is just a muddle of confusion. Anastasios says there are decent aristocrats > in Haiti. According to Marxism, that shouldn't be the case. These decent people > must be actual Christians, along the lines of Aristide himself. > > Is there some clear and specific update to that Manichean system of the good worker > and the bad owner in Marxism that I have missed? Or are there new leftist ideas or > philosophers that I should read? > > Luther's ideas of two kingdoms are still workable, and they are why I object to > most Christian orders who want the kingdom to be here on earth right now. That nut > Koresh with his hideous notions stemming from Seventh-Day Adventism, for instance. > He apparently thought that he himself was the Second Coming. How easily thought > leads to disaster, and how hard it is to come up with a workable and functioning > political philosophy. I think the precious legacy of the west is worth fighting > for. > > No flaming, now. > > > > -- Kirby Olson > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:41:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Haiti as Conundrum w/ QUESTION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain two novels worth reading set in Haiti are Alejo Carpentier's THE KINGDOM OF THIS WORLD, and THE FESTIVAL OF THE GREASY POLE by . . . damn, I just forgot the name of the author . . . ah, there it is on Amazon, Rene Depestre, also a poet --- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:15:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: UbuWeb Subject: Charlemagne Palestine at Marianne Boesky Gallery NYC Comments: To: lowercase , silence , soundpoetry , audiofix , ubuweb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Charlemagne Palestine SACRED BORDELLO March 19-20, 2004 Friday, March 19, 7pm PERFORMANCE Saturday, March 20, 2-5pm BOOK SIGNING Marianne Boesky Gallery is pleased to present a weekend celebration of the seminal visual/performance/sound artist Charlemagne Palestine and the premiere launch of „Sacred Bordello‰ (2004, Black Dog Press), a comprehensive monograph including essays, scores, and original photos of both his performances and installations. This represents the first major publication on Charlemagne Palestine‚s art. In attempting to convey the breadth of Palestine‚s artistic activity, the gallery will present an installation of paintings and sculptures, a sound environment, and a rare body performance by the artist. Born in Brooklyn in 1947, Palestine‚s first musical experiences were as a cantorial singer in the synagogues of New York. By the late 1960s, he was deeply involved in the amazingly fertile New York and West Coast experimental music/art community. His first major works were legendary piano performances of epic durations, microtonal trembles and dense overtones which situated him alongside La Monte Young, Terry Riley, Steve Reich and others as a seminal figure of early minimalism. In the early 1970s, Palestine increasingly extended his performances beyond the scope of music. His groundbreaking appearances, which combined violent piano playing, performance, video and installation, were considered to be among the most radical musical and performance experiences. Palestine produced a seminal body of performance-based, psychodramatic videotapes in which he ritualistically used physicality, motion and sound to achieve an outward articulation of internal states. Intense and often violently charged, these exercises are characterized by a visceral enactment of physical and psychological catharses. Palestine‚s artistic concerns have also manifested themselves in countless gallery installations. The publication of „Sacred Bordello‰ places particular emphasis on this aspect of Palestine‚s work, which is often much less known by American audiences, especially as Palestine has lived for several years in Belgium and has exhibited primarily in Europe. His signature assemblies of often-augmented stuffed animals, scarves, and objects (collectively called „Charleworld‰ by the artist) convey both an unruly flamboyance and a penetrating poignancy˜a duality which extends through all of Palestine‚s varied activities. The gallery installation will be open 10am-6pm on March 19th and 20th. Please call 212-680-9889 for further information. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:11:10 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Apology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear List Members, I want to offer a sincere apology to everyone on this=20 list for my recent posting. It was a mistake to allow=20 private feelings to spill over into a public forum. I have=20 sent private apologies to the people whose names I=20 mentioned. Augie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:19:24 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I doubt if anyone on this list would've heard of him, but Stephen Tudor, my poetry mentor at Wayne State, disappeared while sailing by himself in one of the great lakes. It's unlikely that he "jumped ship," however; more probably an accident. Those waters get very rough. DH -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of cris cheek Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:38 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd Ray Johnson >> Besides Hart Crane in 1932 returning from Mexico + Spalding this year >> -- >> what other literary characters have 'jumped ship' to meet an untimely >> demise? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:31:50 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Haiti as Conundrum w/ QUESTION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Steven, thanks for reading these posts on Haiti, and thanks to Aldon for giving more info on what to read. Depestre is a poet that wrote what was considered a must read epic poem called A Rainbow for the Christian West. The book is out of print, I think, and only available in French. I believe that he lives in Paris if he is still alive. Many of the upper class Haitians speak very good classical French, and write weirdly wonderful books. I think I must have read about twenty of these. Some older great books are by the Marcellin Brothers -- they won a fiction contest judged by Edmund Wilson in the fifties and got famous through that. They ended up in Paris, too. The Beast of the Haitian Hills is really great. It's about a maid who pretends (?) to be taken over by a vicious spirit and cows her master. Steven, you are right that I said Haiti is a basket case. I used the exact words that Heather Williams criticized. Oops. I guess we should not give up on HAiti. I haven't, not really, but I really don't know where to start. It's not as bad off as Rwanda, though, and there is still a functioning downtown in many areas. I would like to speed up human rights issues in all these little countries. I have been wondering if there is some way to give better aid to those country who are at least trying to protect Locke's four basic freedoms. I'm not talking about penalties, but just bonuses and rewards. We're back at the problem of relativism, but really women shouldn't be immolating themselves as they are in Afghanistan, or being raped, or whatever. The opposition shouldn't be getting slaughtered. We need more fairness, and we need a model of fairness that is overseen and drafted by the UN, perhaps. Perhaps everything could be based on the Finnish constitution. I don't see how we can began to criticize other countries, or clean up America without having a basic standard of how a country ought to be behave. Locke to me is better than Marx because I think it's clearer, and actually leads to a higher status on the universal misery index. Steven, I'm glad you pointed out that I had given up on Haiti. As we read in future weeks as to who did this, and whether or not we armed those thugs, -- if Bush had something to do with this -- or even if his appointees did -- then he's a pig. But I think Baby Doc Duvalier has enough millions to buy guns to do his bidding for him. And maybe it's Baby Doc. He's living in Miami. I thought he was exiled to France, but I guess he managed to get to Miami. Ok, thanks to those of you interested in this marvelous little country of horrors and splendours. Cuba is very close to Haiti. It looks like about sixty miles from one to the other, but that's on my global map. It may be further than that. The original reason we supported the Duvaliers is that they promised to never go communist. Perhaps there was a fear of Aristide going communist? In a sense he had that liberation theology thing going on. But I don't know if he was trying to make the island into a socialist country. It's very hard to get accurate information, and the news is almost curiously blase (blah-zay) about the whole deal, as if they've been told to play it down. -- Kirby Steven Shoemaker wrote: > Kirby--The Heather Williams piece does suggest that you were on the right > track with your good question about who the heck these unnamed "rebels" > are, but in other ways your comments seem to cut against the grain of her > analysis. Your repeated characterization of the country as a kind of > irredeemable shithole of "bad history" seems to be just the attitude she's > lamenting, in so far as it encourages one to just throw one's hands up in > despair. That's not entirely fair to you, though, since you *are* still > asking > what's to be done. But Williams's analysis of what we have *already* done > suggests possibilities you're ignoring. Let me just quote her last > paragraph > as a recap: > > But the modus operandi of Noriega and company is > > > > unmistakeable: fund an opposition, report every clash as repression > > > > against the population, arm pliable thugs and mercenaries in exile, > > > > embargo the government, precipitate acute crisis, play up the discontent > > > > of a hungry population, and then happily leave it to internationalist > > > > liberals to lead the charge for military intervention on humanitarian > > > > grounds. So with President Aristide neutralized now, it's time to look > > > > elsewhere, maybe west across the sea to Cuba. > > > > It seems that if we would just *refrain* from doing this sort of > stuff, it would be a step in the right direction... > > steve > > On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Kirby Olson wrote: > > > Aldon, Anastasios and others interested in the politics of Haiti -- > > > > What Heather Williams is saying is pretty much what I thought was going on in > > Haiti. I saw a film about twenty years ago on US Business interests in Haiti. The > > film was done by a communist outfit but was intelligent and well-documented. It > > argued several things simultaneously (I think the film was called Haiti: Powder Keg > > of the Caribbean). > > > > 1. Lower-level American jobs are leaving to go to what I believe they called > > "warehouse states" such as Haiti and the Philippines, where you can get people who > > are starving to work for subsistence wages. This is bad for American workers > > because all those jobs are lost, and they never come back. > > > > 2. It is also bad for the workers in the countries that multinational corporations > > are occupying, such as Haiti, because the multinational corporations are so > > powerful that the locals couldn't possibly stand up to them in any meaningful way, > > and the local countries' dictators HAVE to take what pitiful US bribes are offered, > > in order to man their own militia to prevent popular uprisings among their > > impoverished workers. > > > > (This is where I suspect Aristide was not playing ball -- refusing to take the > > bribes, and in his own way trying to get the deal to work better for the average > > Haitian -- he was afterall a man of God -- and this has to have been his agenda.) > > > > 3. Where I didn't buy the film, and where I thought it went way offtrack, was in > > arguing that Haiti should go communist. You know, a central party, with a > > "secretary" in whom all power is vested, but an enlightened despot, along the lines > > of Plato's philosopher-king. I'm so tired of that idea -- it has never worked -- > > the only person who can get such a spot has to be a ruthless bastard willing to > > kill all opposition such as Stalin, Pol Pot, Hoxha, Mao, you name it. The Marxist > > system simply doesn't work, and never will, at least not as it has been classically > > put into operation throughout the last pitiful century. > > > > WHAT DOES? > > > > That is my question. But I want to preface it with a little political history. > > Most of our thinking in the left now comes out of a watershed or two. One is > > Marx. There are many on this listserv who still think Marx had some good ideas. > > What were they? Why is it that they have never played out n any positive > > algorhythm? Is there something that that man thought that is still useful? > > > > Our most recent watershed is the Tel Quel Maoists of 68 -- Kristeva, Barthes, > > Foucault, Derrida, Sollers, and so on. They lookd to Mao. Kristeva wrote a > > terrible book about Mao's genius -- Chinese Women. It's a disturbing book because > > it's so completely stupid. Nobody reads it any longer, but she actually thought > > Maoism was going to lead to utopia. She has recently written a book saying that > > Charles de Gaulle was the best political mind of her era. She's flip-flopped > > completely, in other words. > > > > Foucault gave AIDS to other men after he knew he had it himself. He also suggests > > that molesting children is a good idea (pp. 33-34) in History of Sexuality, part > > one. I don't see anything useful in his work. I see a lot that will lead to a > > total breakdown of community in favor of selfish pleasure. I think children should > > be first in a society, and that adults' job is to grow up and serve them. > > > > Barthes was mown down by a laundry truck but in his later work was moving out of > > political models into aesthetics. > > > > Derrida is moving into discussions of Judaism which I haven't read. Having read > > his early work, I don't think any of it would interest me. > > > > In Slovenia, one of our more recent leftist geniuses, Slavoj Zizek, is writing > > books such as The Fragile Absolute: Why the Christian Legacy is Worth Fighting For > > -- he has only a tangential understanding of Christianity, but these books are > > interesting because they move in unpredictable ways toward an acceptance of the > > Christian ethos.. > > > > They are parallel in fact to my work in this area of trying to build a Christian > > (specifically Lutheran) surrealism. > > > > As I go through this list, I wonder about the politics of the different > > combatants. Part of the lapse of theory is that nobody stresses these questions > > any longer. Maybe nobody knows any thing about philosophy any more, or never did. > > > > Are there any SPECIFIC ideas in Trotsky, Mao, etc., that anybody would still stand > > by? > > > > I read all these people in graduate school, and was floored by how authoritarian it > > was. In 1975 or so, when LANGUAGE started, they were citing Marx and others a > > lot. Silliman's theory seemed to be based in a control of the distribution of > > poetry or something (I never really understood it). Now in Silliman's blog, for > > instance, he almost never cites any political philosophers. He seems to be > > primarily interested in aesthetics. > > > > I occasionally get back channel blasts from elderly leftists who hold up Finland > > and Scandinavia in order to hoist me with my own petard. It's true I love Finland, > > but for heaven's sake, it is a democracy, and it is moving to the right. They're > > scrapping the welfare state before everybody turns into a state-sponsored drunk. > > It is still much cushier than America for the poor, and probably nobody there can > > even conceive of what it's like to be really poor in America, much less Haiti. > > > > I think the basic thread of the Scandinavian democracies is based on a Lutheranism > > that goes back deep into the centuries. It takes centuries to build a common base > > of ideas. Today those ideas are being unravelled or forgotten in Finland by many > > in Helsinki, but the ethos remains very very strong in the rural areas. > > > > It seems to me that the generation before mine in America really only believed in > > sex. The only church was sex. The only source of ultimate meaning. Family, > > children, communities, went to pieces. > > > > Part of my project is to recuperate Lutheranism, but also Locke, and other > > Christian-based philosophies. Those people had good ideas. I'll cite one: > > > > Locke's idea that there are four things a government should protect: > > > > Life, liberty, health, and possessions, would be a useful thing to think about in > > terms of who gets to run Haiti. > > > > I don't know any other better list. It appears to me that the "rebels" are not > > respecting ANY of these four basic and what Locke calls "God-given" rights. > > > > Locke made this country function. Marxism doesn't function. Locke can unlock the > > mystery of the universal misery index, and explain why Haiti is on the bottom. > > > > Marxism is just a muddle of confusion. Anastasios says there are decent aristocrats > > in Haiti. According to Marxism, that shouldn't be the case. These decent people > > must be actual Christians, along the lines of Aristide himself. > > > > Is there some clear and specific update to that Manichean system of the good worker > > and the bad owner in Marxism that I have missed? Or are there new leftist ideas or > > philosophers that I should read? > > > > Luther's ideas of two kingdoms are still workable, and they are why I object to > > most Christian orders who want the kingdom to be here on earth right now. That nut > > Koresh with his hideous notions stemming from Seventh-Day Adventism, for instance. > > He apparently thought that he himself was the Second Coming. How easily thought > > leads to disaster, and how hard it is to come up with a workable and functioning > > political philosophy. I think the precious legacy of the west is worth fighting > > for. > > > > No flaming, now. > > > > > > > > -- Kirby Olson > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:29:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anastasios@LOSTBAKLAVA.COM Subject: Re: Haiti as Conundrum w/ QUESTION In-Reply-To: <404E1C5E.9D141981@delhi.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Kirby, --as you know this is what I wrote to you earlier but mistakenly only emailed to you-- I read you, and you appear to yearn for a sort of logic to the Haitian travesty. Yet, you turn from an actual political situation to baiting theorists and other sociological systems before spinning a religious yarn. What does Lutheranism have to do with Haiti at the moment? What does Foucalt? Barthes? Derrida? Kristeva? I have little interest in any of them. You seem to argue for a democracy there, which is what the country had. Aristide was democratically elected TWICE. The good people in Washington DC do not like democratic results with which they do not agree. Witness what’s going on in Iraq: if Iraqis were really allowed to vote, the government that would take shape would have an Islamic leader. If he really believed in democratic results, the US government would have protected the government of Aristide. Let’s not even get into recount 2000 and the US Supreme Court’s decision. I can’t believe that you’ve gotten me into this discussion. But, I’m done here. I’m not going to debate with you the merits of Luther’s two kingdoms and its value on Haiti because I do not want to hear next that Mel Gibson would be good for Port-au-Prince. --Ak --Addendum— You ask about John Locke. It’s been a quite a while since I took my modern philosophy course, but I just took a few minutes to clarify some things for myself. Locke thought that “labor is the origin and justification of property; contract or consent is the ground of government and fixes its limits.” He thought that once humanity multiplied land would become scarce and that rules would be required beyond those of moral law. “Civil society originates when, for the better administration of the law, men agree to delegate this function to certain officers. Thus government is instituted by a ‘social contract’; its powers are limited, and they involve reciprocal obligations; moreover, they can be modified or rescinded by the authority which conferred them.” So, would Locke approved a campaign of agitation and coup in Haiti? Just asking. It does appear that you have a dismissive attitude towards Haitian “progress” without crediting the heavy colonial influence in the region. I don’t want to get into post-colonial theory, but the variable has to be considered. I would like to throw Amartya Sen into the conversation and his approach re: Reexamining Inequality. What’s more – in my opinion – these limitations, deficiencies, ironies, human faults, errors, history, meddling, manipulation, epistemology, politics, etc. would be best looked at in a more fluid platform that a rigid paragraph and expository writing. This stuff is ripe for poetry, no? Sen discusses wants to get past the old adage that “all men are created equal” because it simply isn’t true and it doesn’t do us much good. He argues for a society that allows for the individual to reach one’s individual capabilities and freedom to achieve one’s objectives/goals. Rawls is involved in all of this, too. (gotta go now). ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:11:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tim Shaner Subject: Rust Talks this Thurs in Buffalo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you happen to be in the Buffalo area, passing through, visiting the sights, you might entertain joining us this TH for a night of serious poetics. Rust Talks is pleased to announce RUST TALKS 19: MICHAEL CROSS & THOM DONOVAN Thursday, March 11 8PM Rust Belt Books 202 Allen St. Buffalo, NY We will start promptly at 8:30. Free of charge. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:32:13 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: augie's apology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Friends, I accepted Augie's backchanneled apology, for what it's worth. In all honesty, I couldn't even figure out what he was talking about in the original "attack," so i searched for "Leviticus" in the archives of the Multistory list. Appended is his message and my response -- does it look like my "fundamentalist buttons" were pushed? At all? You know, I once talked to Augie on the phone and found him very sweet spirited. He certainly does love his daughter (who then had been born recently) and wife, as he claims. And he very enthusiastically encouraged me in my own work. But I find M.A.G. radically weird -- it seems that the only criterion there is expansion. I can't for the life of me locate an editorial standard in the work published there. I believe it's intended to reflect internet culture, or spam culture, a kind of in-box of poetry, comment, and miscellaneous texts and modeling headshots. I sometmies laugh at the send-ups but rarely have the energy to comb through much of the actual writing. As to Augie's own poetry -- net writing often comes across as very flat, so I am prejudiced in my criticism there. Do people really enjoy reading long, automatically generated poems? I don't. I think "ad hominem" is a very good distinction to make between what's acceptable and unacceptable in email list discussions. Better to engage someone's work than someone's personality, especially when it comes to art and writing--- so many of us are so fucked up. This ain't a garden party. So, while i embrace Augie himself, I don't necessarily embrace his work. "Love the sinner, hate the sin," as we Fundamentalist Buttons say. -Goody Stein From: "August Highland" Date: Sat Nov 22, 2003 8:53 pm Subject: Re: [m] STABILITY YES FUCK i don't mean to offend you - but art sometimes offends - leviticus 1:15 sincerely, august highland From: "Aaron Belz" Date: Sat Nov 22, 2003 9:06 pm Subject: Re: [m] STABILITY YES FUCK August, It's not a matter of being offended, just that "stability yes fuck" seems formless and void. Like I said-- it seems like regurgitation. At least with ancient sacrifice, there was prescribed form and ritual. If you have something foul to present, at least shape it, show some nuance, some ironic tension, right? No, not at all a matter of being offended, August! Bring on the blood and guts. -AB [Leviticus 1:15 goes like this: "The priest shall bring it to the altar, wring off the head and burn it on the altar; its blood shall be drained out on the side of the altar."] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:54:23 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: three varieties of ad hominem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re-familiarizing myself with these logical fallacies has reminded me what a joy logic can be. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem Isn't the very concept of "ad hominem" a relic from a bygone era, though? Can an objection of "ad hominem" really stand in light of postmodernism? -AB ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:05:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Don't forget my predecessor when I was teaching at University of California, Irvine, Bas Jan Ader, who was teaching there and disappeared into the Pacific. - Alan On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, David Hadbawnik wrote: > I doubt if anyone on this list would've heard of > him, but Stephen Tudor, my poetry mentor at Wayne > State, disappeared while sailing by himself in one > of the great lakes. It's unlikely that he "jumped > ship," however; more probably an accident. Those > waters get very rough. > > DH > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of > cris cheek > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:38 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd > > > Ray Johnson > > > >> Besides Hart Crane in 1932 returning from > Mexico + Spalding this year > >> -- > >> what other literary characters have 'jumped > ship' to meet an untimely > >> demise? > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm finger sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:21:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Will Alexander Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The Saint Mary's College Creative Writing Reading Series is proud to present a reading by WILL ALEXANDER Thursday, March 11 7:30 p.m. Soda Activity Center Saint Mary's College Free * *Will Alexander* *is the author of ten books of essays, fiction, poetry, including Asia and Haiti, Above the Human Nerve Domain,Alien Weaving, Sunrise in Armageddon, and Impulse & Nothingness. His work has appeared in Cross Cultural Poetics, Callaloo, Poems for the Millenium, Conjunctions, Sulphur, and the Chicago Review. He is also a distinguished visual artist, exhibiting at Beyond Baroque, the Pueblo Gallery, L.A. Artcore Gallery, and many other galleries. Alexander has taught at the University of California, San Diego, at New College of California, and at the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics in Boulder. He has written widely on many aspects of African American poetry and surrealism. He has recently been the Lead Artist, and Artist-In-Residence, for Theatre of Hearts/Youth First, a non-profit organization which provides workshops for under-served-at-risk youth and is currently living in Los Angeles. About Above the Human Nerve Domain, Harryette Mullen notes "the domain of poet Will Alexander's nervy curiosity ranges from the icy Himalayas, to African savannahs, from physics, astronomy, and music, to alchemy, philosophy, and painting." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:13:13 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Qui\Etude: Writing through The Book of Shares by Edmond Jabes Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 God’s truth is in silence. To fall silent in turn, with the hope of dissolving into it. But we become aware of it only through words. And words, alas, drive us ever far- ther from our goal. * How could we read a story stud- ed with blank spaces? It is buried among the words. Its burial place is more numerous than the sound. It is full of difference and it is filled with similarity. It is what stitches the blank spaces. It is what shapes the hollowed speeches. It is the principle that will have always been lying in wait. It is the separation from itself. It is the manifestation of itself. It is the ring that must have heard itself. “Have I claimed to write from certainties? “I write because I have none. * “To write means perhaps to speak for the first time,” he said. The recipient opens an empty envelope that he has sent to himself in the hopes that he might have something to say in another’s voice. The first letter is always understood by all. Its conjugation with other first letters remains a mystery. When the book is closed we suddenly recognize an alphabet. “How does one cite the impulse to remain silent?” By carefully deciphering the erasures. When the book is closed we suddenly recognize an alphabet under subjugation. “How does one keep these erasures under scrutiny?” By imagining the last word. The first erasure. What develops from the first and only wound. An alphabet. What is posited against the first letter. Thus absence speaks to absence. The book is opened. The poem opens and ends and returns to begin again. The book is opened and deprived of its memory. The book is opened. We cannot read the book because it is already imagined. What is written in the margins of its memory. The book is opened and is no longer listening. To reason when one is no longer listening. That to mean is to be actively ambivalent. -Christophe Casamassima -- _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year! 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temporary at best 'defuge' is a basic process that sloughs attentivity come defuge pl the at best 'defuge' is a basic process that sloughs attentivity and value fading wisdom | more to come defuge pl the the calculus of fading wisdom | more to come defuge pl the verdad? qu criatura de vida real defuge todav a a los cient ficos? mv zz zz.htm; lynx zz.htm rm zz.htm; ./mod strings zz > yy mv yy zz; wc zz pico zz grep defuge zz > yy sed 's/^ //g' zz > yy sed 's/[-]/ /g' yy > zz sed 's/\<....\>//g' zz > yy sed 's/[<>]//g' yy > zz tr A-Z a-z < yy > zz sed 's/ / /g' yy > zz sed 's/ / /g' zz > yy sed 's/[<>//]//g' yy > zz grep defuge zz > yy tr A-Z a-z < yy > zz sed 's/ / /g' zz > yy wc yy pico yy sed 's/ / /g' yy > zz; fold -s -w zz > yy sed 's/ /# /g' zz > yy sed 's/#/ /g' yy > zz sed 's/[.;:,]/ /g' zz > yy sed 's/[$^-]/ /g' yy > zz __ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 01:35:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Skinner Subject: ECOPOETICS 03 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable ECOPOETICS 03=20 198 pp. =A0 John Batki, Alicia Cohen, Simon Cutts, Alec Finlay, Lisa Forrest, Eric Gelsinger, Jody Gladding, Philip Good, Gothic News Service, Mary Rising Higgins, Peter Jaeger, Jeffrey Jullich, Robert Kocik, Joan Maloof, Douglas Manson, Bernadette Mayer, Pablo Neruda, Alice Notley, Mark Nowak, Derek Owens, Isabelle Pelissier, Stephen Ratcliffe, Tom Raworth, Jerome Rothenberg, Kaia Sand, Andrew Schelling, Ravi Shankar, Allen Shelton, Jonathan Skinner, Jane Sprague, Eleni Stecopoulos, Sasha Steensen, Brian Swann, Stephen Vincent, Damian Weber, Nathan Whiting =A0 =A0 Rates =A0 Single issues: $7 ($14 institutions) Subscriptions: $25/ 4 issues ($50 institutions) Postage included; outside US add $3 per issue (please make checks payable to Jonathan Skinner) =A0 ECOPOETICS 106 Huntington Ave. Buffalo, NY 14214 =A0 jskinner@buffalo.edu =A0 Free PDFs of back issues available at www.factoryschool.org/ecopoetics 20 copies of ECOPOETICS 03 are hand "colorized" by artist John Batki--no tw= o alike! The first 20 subscribers (after 3/10/04) will receive one of these.= =20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:50:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Haiti by Chomsky In-Reply-To: <404E53E6.19AEF9F6@delhi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v612) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kirby, below another take on Haiti: Naom Chomsky recent piece on that subject=20= from Z-Net: Pierre US-Haiti =A0 By Noam Chomsky =A0 Those who have any concern for Haiti will naturally want to understand=20= how its most recent tragedy has been unfolding. And for those who have=20= had the privilege of any contact with the people of this tortured land,=20= it is not just natural but inescapable. Nevertheless, we make a serious=20= error if we focus too narrowly on the events of the recent past, or=20 even on Haiti alone. The crucial issue for us is what we should be=20 doing about what is taking place. That would be true even if our=20 options and our responsibility were limited; far more so when they are=20= immense and decisive, as in the case of Haiti. And even more so because=20= the course of the terrible story was predictable years ago -- if we=20 failed to act to prevent it. And fail we did. The lessons are clear,=20 and so important that they would be the topic of daily front-page=20 articles in a free press. =A0 Reviewing what was taking place in Haiti shortly after Clinton=20 "restored democracy" in 1994, I was compelled to conclude, unhappily,=20 in Z Magazine that "It would not be very surprising, then, if the=20 Haitian operations become another catastrophe," and if so, "It is not a=20= difficult chore to trot out the familiar phrases that will explain the=20= failure of our mission of benevolence in this failed society." The=20 reasons were evident to anyone who chose to look. And the familiar=20 phrases again resound, sadly and predictably. =A0 There is much solemn discussion today explaining, correctly, that=20 democracy means more than flipping a lever every few years. Functioning=20= democracy has preconditions. One is that the population should have=20 some way to learn what is happening in the world. The real world, not=20 the self-serving portrait offered by the "establishment press," which=20 is disfigured by its "subservience to state power" and "the usual=20 hostility to popular movements" - the accurate words of Paul Farmer,=20 whose work on Haiti is, in its own way, perhaps even as remarkable as=20 what he has accomplished within the country. Farmer was writing in=20 1993, reviewing mainstream commentary and reporting on Haiti, a=20 disgraceful record that goes back to the days of Wilson's vicious and=20 destructive invasion in 1915, and on to the present. The facts are=20 extensively documented, appalling, and shameful. And they are deemed=20 irrelevant for the usual reasons: they do not conform to the required=20 self-image, and so are efficiently dispatched deep into the memory=20 hole, though they can be unearthed by those who have some interest in=20 the real world. =A0 They will rarely be found, however, in the "establishment press."=20 Keeping to the more liberal and knowledgeable end of the spectrum, the=20= standard version is that in "failed states" like Haiti and Iraq the US=20= must become engaged in benevolent "nation-building" to "enhance=20 democracy," a "noble goal" but one that may be beyond our means because=20= of the inadequacies of the objects of our solicitude. In Haiti, despite=20= Washington's dedicated efforts from Wilson to FDR while the country was=20= under Marine occupation, "the new dawn of Haitian democracy never=20 came." And "not all America's good wishes, nor all its Marines, can=20 achieve [democracy today] until the Haitians do it themselves" (H.D.S.=20= Greenway, Boston Globe). As New York Times correspondent R.W. Apple=20 recounted two centuries of history in 1994, reflecting on the prospects=20= for Clinton's endeavor to "restore democracy" then underway, "Like the=20= French in the 19th century, like the Marines who occupied Haiti from=20 1915 to 1934, the American forces who are trying to impose a new order=20= will confront a complex and violent society with no history of=20 democracy." =A0 Apple does appear to go a bit beyond the norm in his reference to=20 Napoleon's savage assault on Haiti, leaving it in ruins, in order to=20 prevent the crime of liberation in the world's richest colony, the=20 source of much of France's wealth. But perhaps that undertaking too=20 satisfies the fundamental criterion of benevolence: it was supported by=20= the United States, which was naturally outraged and frightened by "the=20= first nation in the world to argue the case of universal freedom for=20 all humankind, revealing the limited definition of freedom adopted by=20 the French and American revolutions." So Haitian historian Patrick=20 Bellegarde-Smith writes, accurately describing the terror in the slave=20= state next door, which was not relieved even when Haiti's successful=20 liberation struggle, at enormous cost, opened the way to the expansion=20= to the West by compelling Napoleon to accept the Louisiana Purchase.=20 The US continued to do what it could to strangle Haiti, even supporting=20= France's insistence that Haiti pay a huge indemnity for the crime of=20 liberating itself, a burden it has never escaped - and France, of=20 course, dismisses with elegant disdain Haiti's request, recently under=20= Aristide, that it at least repay the indemnity, forgetting the=20 responsibilities that a civilized society would accept. =A0 The basic contours of what led to the current tragedy are pretty clear.=20= Just beginning with the 1990 election of Aristide (far too narrow a=20 time frame), Washington was appalled by the election of a populist=20 candidate with a grass-roots constituency just as it had been appalled=20= by the prospect of the hemisphere's first free country on its doorstep=20= two centuries earlier. Washington's traditional allies in Haiti=20 naturally agreed. "The fear of democracy exists, by definitional=20 necessity, in elite groups who monopolize economic and political=20 power," Bellegarde-Smith observes in his perceptive history of Haiti;=20 whether in Haiti or the US or anywhere else. =A0 The threat of democracy in Haiti in 1991 was even more ominous because=20= of the favorable reaction of the international financial institutions=20 (World Bank, IADB) to Aristide's programs, which awakened traditional=20 concerns over the "virus" effect of successful independent development.=20= These are familiar themes in international affairs: American=20 independence aroused similar concerns among European leaders. The=20 dangers are commonly perceived to be particularly grave in a country=20 like Haiti, which had been ravaged by France and then reduced to utter=20= misery by a century of US intervention. If even people in such dire=20 circumstances can take their fate into their own hands, who knows what=20= might happen elsewhere as the "contagion spreads." =A0 The Bush I administration reacted to the disaster of democracy by=20 shifting aid from the democratically elected government to what are=20 called "democratic forces": the wealthy elites and the business=20 sectors, who, along with the murderers and torturers of the military=20 and paramilitaries, had been lauded by the current incumbents in=20 Washington, in their Reaganite phase, for their progress in "democratic=20= development," justifying lavish new aid. The praise came in response to=20= ratification by the Haitian parliament of a law granting Washington's=20 client killer and torturer Baby Doc Duvalier the authority to suspend=20 the rights of any political party without reasons. The law passed by a=20= majority of 99.98%. It therefore marked a positive step towards=20 democracy as compared with the 99% approval of a 1918 law granting US=20 corporations the right to turn the country into a US plantation, passed=20= by 5% of the population after the Haitian Parliament was disbanded at=20 gunpoint by Wilson's Marines when it refused to accept this=20 "progressive measure," essential for "economic development." Their=20 reaction to Baby Doc's encouraging progress towards democracy was=20 characteristic - worldwide -- on the part of the visionaries who are=20 now entrancing educated opinion with their dedication to bringing=20 democracy to a suffering world - although, to be sure, their actual=20 exploits are being tastefully rewritten to satisfy current needs. =A0 Refugees fleeing to the US from the terror of the US-backed=20 dictatorships were forcefully returned, in gross violation of=20 international humanitarian law. The policy was reversed when a=20 democratically elected government took office. Though the flow of=20 refugees reduced to a trickle, they were mostly granted political=20 asylum. Policy returned to normal when a military junta overthrew the=20 Aristide government after seven months, and state terrorist atrocities=20= rose to new heights. The perpetrators were the army - the inheritors of=20= the National Guard left by Wilson's invaders to control the population=20= - and its paramilitary forces. The most important of these, FRAPH, was=20= founded by CIA asset Emmanuel Constant, who now lives happily in=20 Queens, Clinton and Bush II having dismissed extradition requests --=20 because he would reveal US ties to the murderous junta, it is widely=20 assumed. Constant's contributions to state terror were, after all,=20 meager; merely prime responsibility for the murder of 4-5000 poor=20 blacks. =A0 Recall the core element of the Bush doctrine, which has "already become=20= a de facto rule of international relations," Harvard's Graham Allison=20 writes in Foreign Affairs: "those who harbor terrorists are as guilty=20 as the terrorists themselves," in the President's words, and must be=20 treated accordingly, by large-scale bombing and invasion. =A0 When Aristide was overthrown by the 1991 military coup, the=20 Organization of American States declared an embargo. Bush I announced=20 that the US would violate it by exempting US firms. He was thus "fine=20 tuning" the embargo for the benefit of the suffering population, the=20 New York Times reported. Clinton authorized even more extreme=20 violations of the embargo: US trade with the junta and its wealthy=20 supporters sharply increased. The crucial element of the embargo was,=20 of course, oil. While the CIA solemnly testified to Congress that the=20 junta "probably will be out of fuel and power very shortly" and "Our=20 intelligence efforts are focused on detecting attempts to circumvent=20 the embargo and monitoring its impact," Clinton secretly authorized the=20= Texaco Oil Company to ship oil to the junta illegally, in violation of=20= presidential directives. This remarkable revelation was the lead story=20= on the AP wires the day before Clinton sent the Marines to "restore=20 democracy," impossible to miss - I happened to be monitoring AP wires=20 that day and saw it repeated prominently over and over -- and obviously=20= of enormous significance for anyone who wanted to understand what was=20 happening. It was suppressed with truly impressive discipline, though=20 reported in industry journals along with scant mention buried in the=20 business press. =A0 Also efficiently suppressed were the crucial conditions that Clinton=20 imposed for Aristide's return: that he adopt the program of the=20 defeated US candidate in the 1990 elections, a former World Bank=20 official who had received 14% of the vote. We call this "restoring=20 democracy," a prime illustration of how US foreign policy has entered a=20= "noble phase" with a "saintly glow," the national press explained. The=20= harsh neoliberal program that Aristide was compelled to adopt was=20 virtually guaranteed to demolish the remaining shreds of economic=20 sovereignty, extending Wilson's progressive legislation and similar=20 US-imposed measures since. =A0 As democracy was thereby restored, the World Bank announced that "The=20 renovated state must focus on an economic strategy centered on the=20 energy and initiative of Civil Society, especially the private sector,=20= both national and foreign." That has the merit of honesty: Haitian=20 Civil Society includes the tiny rich elite and US corporations, but not=20= the vast majority of the population, the peasants and slum-dwellers who=20= had committed the grave sin of organizing to elect their own president.=20= World Bank officers explained that the neoliberal program would benefit=20= the "more open, enlightened, business class" and foreign investors, but=20= assured us that the program "is not going to hurt the poor to the=20 extent it has in other countries" subjected to structural adjustment,=20 because the Haitian poor already lacked minimal protection from proper=20= economic policy, such as subsidies for basic goods. Aristide's Minister=20= in charge of rural development and agrarian reform was not notified of=20= the plans to be imposed on this largely peasant society, to be returned=20= by "America's good wishes" to the track from which it veered briefly=20 after the regrettable democratic election in 1990. =A0 Matters then proceeded in their predictable course. A 1995 USAID report=20= explained that the "export-driven trade and investment policy" that=20 Washington imposed will "relentlessly squeeze the domestic rice=20 farmer," who will be forced to turn to agroexport, with incidental=20 benefits to US agribusiness and investors. Despite their extreme=20 poverty, Haitian rice farmers are quite efficient, but cannot possibly=20= compete with US agribusiness, even if it did not receive 40% of its=20 profits from government subsidies, sharply increased under the=20 Reaganites who are again in power, still producing enlightened rhetoric=20= about the miracles of the market. We now read that Haiti cannot feed=20 itself, another sign of a "failed state." =A0 A few small industries were still able to function, for example, making=20= chicken parts. But US conglomerates have a large surplus of dark meat,=20= and therefore demanded the right to dump their excess products in=20 Haiti. They tried to do the same in Canada and Mexico too, but there=20 illegal dumping could be barred. Not in Haiti, compelled to submit to=20 efficient market principles by the US government and the corporations=20 it serves. =A0 One might note that the Pentagon's proconsul in Iraq, Paul Bremer,=20 ordered a very similar program to be instituted there, with the same=20 beneficiaries in mind. That's also called "enhancing democracy." In=20 fact, the record, highly revealing and important, goes back to the 18th=20= century. Similar programs had a large role in creating today's third=20 world. Meanwhile the powerful ignored the rules, except when they could=20= benefit from them, and were able to become rich developed societies;=20 dramatically the US, which led the way in modern protectionism and,=20 particularly since World War II, has relied crucially on the dynamic=20 state sector for innovation and development, socializing risk and cost. =A0 The punishment of Haiti became much more severe under Bush II -- there=20= are differences within the narrow spectrum of cruelty and greed. Aid=20 was cut and international institutions were pressured to do likewise,=20 under pretexts too outlandish to merit discussion. They are extensively=20= reviewed in Paul Farmer's Uses of Haiti, and in some current press=20 commentary, notably by Jeffrey Sachs (Financial Times) and Tracy Kidder=20= (New York Times). =A0 Putting details aside, what has happened since is eerily similar to the=20= overthrow of Haiti's first democratic government in 1991. The Aristide=20= government, once again, was undermined by US planners, who understood,=20= under Clinton, that the threat of democracy can be overcome if economic=20= sovereignty is eliminated, and presumably also understood that economic=20= development will also be a faint hope under such conditions, one of the=20= best-confirmed lessons of economic history. Bush II planners are even=20 more dedicated to undermining democracy and independence, and despised=20= Aristide and the popular organizations that swept him to power with=20 perhaps even more passion than their predecessors. The forces that=20 reconquered the country are mostly inheritors of the US-installed army=20= and paramilitary terrorists. =A0 Those who are intent on diverting attention from the US role will=20 object that the situation is more complex -- as is always true -- and=20 that Aristide too was guilty of many crimes. Correct, but if he had=20 been a saint the situation would hardly have developed very=20 differently, as was evident in 1994, when the only real hope was that a=20= democratic revolution in the US would make it possible to shift policy=20= in a more civilized direction. =A0 What is happening now is awful, maybe beyond repair. And there is=20 plenty of short-term responsibility on all sides. But the right way for=20= the US and France to proceed is very clear. They should begin with=20 payment of enormous reparations to Haiti (France is perhaps even more=20 hypocritical and disgraceful in this regard than the US). That,=20 however, requires construction of functioning democratic societies in=20 which, at the very least, people have a prayer of knowing what's going=20= on. Commentary on Haiti, Iraq, and other "failed societies" is quite=20 right in stressing the importance of overcoming the "democratic=20 deficit" that substantially reduces the significance of elections. It=20 does not, however, draw the obvious corollary: the lesson applies in=20 spades to a country where "politics is the shadow cast on society by=20 big business," in the words of America's leading social philosopher,=20 John Dewey, describing his own country in days when the blight had=20 spread nowhere near as far as it has today. =A0 For those who are concerned with the substance of democracy and human=20 rights, the basic tasks at home are also clear enough. They have been=20 carried out before, with no slight success, and under incomparably=20 harsher conditions elsewhere, including the slums and hills of Haiti.=20 We do not have to submit, voluntary, to living in a failed state=20 suffering from an enormous democratic deficit. =A0 =A0___________________________________________________________ The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place =09 Albany NY 12202 =09 h: 518 426 0433 =09 c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 =09= email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:49:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: anastasios@LOSTBAKLAVA.COM Subject: Edwidge's new book: THE DEW BREAKER MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/10/books/10KAKU.html?8hpib HIDING FROM A BRUTAL PAST SPENT SHATTERING LIVES IN HAITI by Michiko Kakutani Haiti's bloody and bitter history of violence, corruption and vengeance stalks all the characters in Edwidge Danticat's remarkable new novel, infecting their dreams and circumscribing their expectations. It is a nightmare they are all trying in vain to rewind and erase [...] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:47:33 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nathaniel Siegel Subject: call for poets to march in new york city on march 20th as a group MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would like to invite ALL poets, writers, artists and activists to march with "poets for Peace" at "The World Still Says No To War" rally and protest on Saturday March 20, 2004 in New York City. We will assemble in front of Reminiscence located at 50 West 23rd Street between 5th Ave and Ave of the Americas at 11a.m. We will begin walking to the main rally at approximately 11:30a.m. Main rally held at Madison Square Park 23rd street and Madison Avenue 12noon. All poets welcome ! For more information www. poetsagainstthewar.org . Click on readings and enter the date and location,listed under Events in March 2004 in New York City. Thank you ! Nathaniel A. Siegel poets for Peace poets against the war POETRY IS NEWS email nathanielsiegel@aol.com with any comments, suggestions, ideas please forward this information as appropriate ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:24:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Annie Finch Subject: Reading Black Dog Songs by Lisa Jarnot In-Reply-To: <200403100515.i2A5FJR5135230@mcsaix05.mcs.muohio.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I was glad to see a review of this book, which I totally enjoy--last time I read it I found myself laughing aloud with delight. Annie Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:24:23 -0800 From: Jeffre Jullic Subject: Reading ~Black Dog Songs~ by Lisa Jarnot The praise for ~Black Dog Songs,~ and that it's listed as one of the two top best-selling poetry titles at SPDBooks, is well-deserved. It's a singularly unique reading experience. I was reminded throughout of a poet I haven't yet heard invoked in comparison: Edgar Allan Poe's poetry. It's probably not since his that we've seen a consciousness combining such an oxymoronic, seemingly mutually exclusive combustion: ear concentrated to an Ulalume pitch, the political, and the sinister. The most surprising moment came, for me, at the very end, in the title poem, where all the book's themes are suddenly noded into one and explained in a single word, a point of synthesis I couldn't have foreseen: the word "kill", appearing like a free-floating disjunctive unconscious imperative in the mind of the dog that's lullabied: "the foxes and / road kill all wander / the highway / . . . / I know the road kill, / the flies know the / road kill". That, then, is both the exhausting instinct that the poor dog has to be lulled to sleep from ("Go to sleep little doggie") and that explains---perhaps making more forgiveable in their powerlessness against such deep-rooted drives?---the George W, Bush, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld whom poems are dedicated to. It isn't just that the Colonel Sanders on the rotisseries ("The chicken wing factory is lit up in flames"), in what fast may be becoming the most-quoted poem of the early 21st century, are martyrs of pathetic victimization, ---except in some vegan utopia. To the contrary: if we didn't kill them, the dogs would. I'm glad that the book is popular, but I'm surprised that it isn't controversial. The final, surprising black-&-white photograph that follows the last poem makes explicit, perhaps in spite of itself, a pathos that the poetry couldn't state: it's all frozen over (the photo shows the walkway of a pier leading out to its endpoint over a lake or bay, the pier and the lake completely iced-over in winter and the ice thick in several inches of snow), and the reason that remained unstated was that ~so little was or *can* be stated~ in a poetry like ours that has been hyper-musicalized devoid of both propositional statements and the risk of falsity and possibility of truth that they hold ("for Dick Cheney": "dim dale / ding dong / dip down / dame chase / cheap date / dance dodge / do dick" [see "The Autobiography of Donald Rumsfeld" by Anselm Berrigan, in Baffling Comubstions # 2: "hand painfinite droolted / to vaguely cutiepiefuzzfacesemble / who-ever's infinite drool racket / suckinfinite droolg iced" (sic)]). Historically, periods when literature reached ratios of low semantics/high melopoeia were monarchic imperialisms typified by the so-called "Decadent" poets or, when the term was still value-neutral, the French ~precieux~ poets. Writing Degree Zero has reached its sub-sub-zero Kelvin point in the must-read ~Black Dog Songs.~ When I first heard ~Black Dog Songs~ poems, before reading the book, they "blew my mind" (cognitive dissonance): there was an actual ~physical~ sensation, a sort of tingling in my limbs, as my mind couldn't solve their dilemma. I was most reminded of Robert Ryman's all-white paintings. Before reading the book, I was more ambivalent or confused about Jarnot poetry. What shorted out all my receptive circuitry was that the selfsame poems could simultaneously be read, as Ron Silliman says, as an expression of one of the most sensitive "ears" in American poetry and a distillation of everything to the most ~pure~ possible of all ~poesie pure,~ an expression of great faith in poetry--- ~or~ a hoax of the most cynical and taunting type, there only to make fun of what's in vogue. If someone wanted to make a bad joke of poetry, it might wind up a bad version of these good poems. Without outside context to corroborate its sincerity, a reader could understandably be quite incredulous at the Philip Glass minimalism of "Because the trees all lived / there too. Because the trees and roots knew harmony. / Because the burning cutters knew the trees and hungered / for the crops. Because the trees were tired", in a poem with no less than ~twenty-two~ anaphora "Because" sentences ---which is reminiscent of nothing so much as the typings of Robert Wilson's (autistic) librettist Christopher Knowles (go to: http://www.epc.buffalo.edu/sound/mp3/sp/dial_a_poem_poets/big_ego/05-wilson.mp3). (The book could be compared and contrasted valuably to another recent poet of repetition largely forgotten from the canon: John Giorno.) Afterwards, I found myself wondering at how the book is triangulated among the bad father figures of a wicked Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld patriarchy and the good innocence of lambs and animals or child-like nursery rhyme allusions, but ~without any female figure~ whatsoever to complete that into a known feminism. Initially, I was surprised when Ron Silliman praised Jarnot's "ear." I hadn't heard her writing that way. And I wondered at how so wide a difference of perspective could exist. From the sound of what he says about his music-listening habits, Ron Silliman seems like a New Age Steve Reich trance music type. My listening habits are very different from that: Boulez is the composer I think of first as the example of a literal "perfect pitch" composer, and I tend to think of "ear" as being demonstrated by ~variety,~ not sameness. Maybe, if that's the kind of music that he looks to as a summit model of what's good, Silliman's estimation would be understandable, I thought. And, of course, ~Black Dog Songs~ is reiterated sameness ~with slight variation,~ encouraging the reader to attune more to subtle changes. I had a friend who was in charge of book cover design at a major publishing house, who spent his days doing nothing but evaluating fine gradations of color and who was ~professionally~ over-sensitize to it; and he lived in an apartment where everything was white, including the cats, and for a while he dressed in only whites and off-whites. Clear evidence of an acutely heightened sensitivity can also be found in cases where stimuli are then kept, defensively, at an absolute minimum. Maybe the proof of Jarnot's "ear" is to be found, the way "kill" seemed to sum it all up, in a single word, too: "dog", in the book's very title. It took me a while for it to dawn on me that, by singling out that basic ABCs word to be writ large on the book's cover, she had chosen one of the few words most equivocally pronounced in English. So evenly split is its pronunciation, in fact, that the ~American Heritage College Dictionary~ accounts for it with ~two~ pronunciations: either with a short o as in "box" or with an aw sound (my regional prounciation) as in "dawn." The opening of John Ashbery's "The New Spirit" in ~Three Poems~ is often quoted: "I thought htat if I could put it all down, that would be one way. And next the thought came to me that to leave all out would be another, and truer, way." Finally, here is that heretofore only dreamt-of New Spirit poetry that leaves almost everything out. I'm very glad I read it, and I recommend ~Black Dog Songs.~ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:08:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: call for poets to march in new york city on march 20th as a group In-Reply-To: <21.3b787b74.2d809295@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do poets march on iambic feet? Hal Not responsible for typographical terrors. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard { I would like to invite ALL poets, writers, artists and activists to march { with "poets for Peace" at "The World Still Says No To War" rally and protest on { Saturday March 20, 2004 in New York City. { We will assemble in front of Reminiscence located at 50 West 23rd Street { between 5th Ave and Ave of the Americas at 11a.m. { We will begin walking to the main rally at approximately 11:30a.m. { Main rally held at Madison Square Park 23rd street and Madison Avenue 12noon. { { All poets welcome ! { { For more information www. poetsagainstthewar.org . Click on readings and { enter the date and location,listed under Events in March 2004 in New York City. { { Thank you ! { { Nathaniel A. Siegel { poets for Peace { poets against the war { POETRY IS NEWS { { email nathanielsiegel@aol.com with any comments, suggestions, ideas { { please forward this information as appropriate ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:17:59 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Bechtel Subject: False Alarms of Big Ideas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit False Alarms of Big Ideas (For Spalding Gray and Aaron Belz) Gore Vidal screams as Gray jumps off Point Judith to search for termites making messy dough from the world's foundation Still dizzy for the taste of jailbirds kissing goofs in plays on Long Island Ferry - Lanky with a pretzel; clocking reckless booze - To travel to himself for a seat above the snapshot - and direct his darkest work - Typically, fine tuned. [Brent Bechtel] ----- http://bechtel.blogspot.com www.brentbechtel.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:54:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII didn't Berryman jump off a bridge? Mary Wollstonecraft jumped into the Thames I think twice, but unsuccessfully. Her daughter by Gilbert Imlay did so successfully. i don't know that this counts, but Percy Shelley took himself and a friend, Edward Williams, out in a boat on a clearly inclement day, and his body later washed ashore. the legend has it that when the body was burned, the heart remained untouched. Robert -- Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop UW Box: 351237 On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Alan Sondheim wrote: > Don't forget my predecessor when I was teaching at University of > California, Irvine, Bas Jan Ader, who was teaching there and disappeared > into the Pacific. - Alan > > > On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, David Hadbawnik wrote: > > > I doubt if anyone on this list would've heard of > > him, but Stephen Tudor, my poetry mentor at Wayne > > State, disappeared while sailing by himself in one > > of the great lakes. It's unlikely that he "jumped > > ship," however; more probably an accident. Those > > waters get very rough. > > > > DH > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of > > cris cheek > > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:38 AM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd > > > > > > Ray Johnson > > > > > > >> Besides Hart Crane in 1932 returning from > > Mexico + Spalding this year > > >> -- > > >> what other literary characters have 'jumped > > ship' to meet an untimely > > >> demise? > > > > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko > http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt > Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > finger sondheim@panix.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:57:39 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: do not let the majority impose its will on the minority In-Reply-To: <1078851689.404df8695f37d@www.lostbaklava.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://transdada.blogspot.com/ in many states constitutional amendments being pushed to the fall=20 elections. do not let this happen . . . amendment 2 was passed by the majority,=20 imposing its will on the minority.. call if you live in MASSACHUSETTS .=20= . . the constitution committee convenes on thursday.. call your=20 representative today.. MA rep- contacts: http://www.state.ma.us/legis/citytown.htm also..The Christian Civic League start a Black List today at http://transdada.blogspot.com/ Wednesday, March 10, 2004 Protestors sing their opposition City Backs Away =46rom Taking a Stand Gay Marriage Marriage resolution falls short in House Asbury Park votes to stop taking marriage license applications from gay=20= couples County joins S.F. in same-sex marriage fight Same-Sex Civil Unions Gain Backing in USA Today/CNN/Gallup Poll Gay marriage leads to death threats Why discriminate Gay-marriage lobbying builds Activists on both sides converge on State House for crucial session The Christian Civic League start Black List Tuesday, March 09, 2004 http://transdada.blogspot.com/ =A0The Gallup Poll Public Divided on Bush Annan directive on gay unions triggers ire of U.N. members 'On a Mission =46rom God': The Religious Right and the Emerging American=20= Theocracy Log Cabin Republicans to air TV ad in D.C., seven states Mayor adds policy to protect gays Homophobia 's Reach Silicon Valley Capital Recognizes Gay Marriages Memo says marriage laws might be unconstitutional Gay marriage supporters defeat restrictions, seek registry The Risks of Waging 'Culture War' Student to sue Seton Hall for refusal to recognize gay group Ore. Legislative counsel upholds gay marriage Santa Cruz supervisors come out in favor of gay marriage Lawmakers seek to ban civil union recognition and more at http://transdada.blogspot.com/= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:13:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: The Text of Shelley's Body Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Do you know the book by Alan Halsey about Shelley's death? ---------- >From: Robert Corbett >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd >Date: Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 8:54 AM > > didn't Berryman jump off a bridge? > > Mary Wollstonecraft jumped into the Thames I think twice, but > unsuccessfully. Her daughter by Gilbert Imlay did so successfully. > > i don't know that this counts, but Percy Shelley took himself and a > friend, Edward Williams, out in a boat on a clearly inclement day, and his > body later washed ashore. the legend has it that when the body was > burned, the heart remained untouched. > > Robert > > -- > Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, > Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the > B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the > Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of > Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop > UW Box: 351237 > > On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Alan Sondheim wrote: > >> Don't forget my predecessor when I was teaching at University of >> California, Irvine, Bas Jan Ader, who was teaching there and disappeared >> into the Pacific. - Alan >> >> >> On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, David Hadbawnik wrote: >> >> > I doubt if anyone on this list would've heard of >> > him, but Stephen Tudor, my poetry mentor at Wayne >> > State, disappeared while sailing by himself in one >> > of the great lakes. It's unlikely that he "jumped >> > ship," however; more probably an accident. Those >> > waters get very rough. >> > >> > DH >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: UB Poetics discussion group >> > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of >> > cris cheek >> > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:38 AM >> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> > Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd >> > >> > >> > Ray Johnson >> > >> > >> > >> Besides Hart Crane in 1932 returning from >> > Mexico + Spalding this year >> > >> -- >> > >> what other literary characters have 'jumped >> > ship' to meet an untimely >> > >> demise? >> > >> >> http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko >> http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt >> Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm >> finger sondheim@panix.com >> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:25:35 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Gray I.D...Monster in a Box... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit listenin' to an old Gray interview on W.N.Y.C... a game i don't want to play... Viginia Wolfe Ray Johnson Rudy Burckhardt... i'd rather play ping-pong.... the 'real' Jewel Unstein...Drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:25:49 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Gray I.D...Monster in a Box... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit listenin' to an old Gray interview on W.N.Y.C... a game i don't want to play... Virginia Wolfe Ray Johnson Rudy Burckhardt... i'd rather play ping-pong.... the 'real' Jewel Unstein...Drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 06:37:45 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Springtail Subject: The Umbrists Are Among You Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed ...and Language Poetry will never be the same. K. S. _________________________________________________________________ Watch movie trailers online with the Xtra Broadband Channel http://xtra.co.nz/broadband ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:39:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: WiReD: 'infectious blogs' (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 00:30:27 -0100 From: nettime's_roving_reporter To: nettime-l@bbs.thing.net Subject: WiReD: 'infectious blogs' [ via tbyfield; the lynx output was de-doubleclickified.] < http://wired.com/news/print/0,1294,62537,00.html > Warning: Blogs Can Be Infectious By [17]Amit Asaravala Story location: [18]http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,62537,00.html 02:00 AM Mar. 05, 2004 PT The most-read webloggers aren't necessarily the ones with the most original ideas, say researchers at Hewlett-Packard Labs. Using newly developed techniques for graphing the flow of information between blogs, the researchers have discovered that authors of popular blog sites regularly borrow topics from lesser-known bloggers -- and they often do so without attribution. These findings are important to sociologists who are interested in learning how ideas grow from isolated topics into full-blown epidemics that "infect" large populations. Such an understanding is also important to marketers, who hope to be able to pitch products and ideas directly to the most influential people in a given group. "There is a lot of speculation that really important people are highly connected, but really, we wonder if the highly connected people just listen to the important people," said Lada Adamic, one of the four researchers working on the project. To satisfy their curiosity, the researchers began analyzing data from Intelliseek's [21]BlogPulse Web crawler, which regularly mines thousands of blogs for references to people, places and events. When they plotted the links and topics shared by various sites, they discovered that topics would often appear on a few relatively unknown blogs days before they appeared on more popular sites. "What we're finding is that the important people on the Web are not necessarily the people with the most explicit links (back to their sites), but the people who cause epidemics in blog networks," said researcher Eytan Adar. These infectious people can be hard to find because they do not always receive attribution for being the first to point to an interesting idea or news item. Indeed, the team at HP Labs found that when an idea infected at least 10 blogs, 70 percent of the blogs did not provide links back to another blog that had previously mentioned the idea. To get past this obstacle, the researchers developed techniques to infer where information might have come from, based on the similarities in text, links and infection rates. For instance, if Blog A used the words "furry germs" to link to an infectious topic like [22]Giantmicrobes just days after Blog B in the same social circle used the exact same words and link, that would be a good sign that Blog A copied Blog B. The researchers have incorporated their techniques into a search algorithm they call iRank. Unlike Google's [23]PageRank algorithm, which ranks websites based on overall popularity, the iRank algorithm ranks sites based on how good they are at injecting ideas into the mainstream. "A lot of sites that get listed by search engines as most relevant are not always the most relevant," said Adar. "For instance, Slashdot often gets listed at the top, but it's just an aggregator. I may want to go to the source." Adar and Adamic say it's too soon to tell if iRank will be incorporated into popular search engines. For one thing, they plan to refine the algorithm after seeing how it works on more data. They would also like to modify the algorithm to resist manipulation from Google-bomb-type attacks, where collaborators link to each other's sites to boost themselves in Google's ranking mechanism. In the meantime, the team has made some of its research available online in the form of the [24]Blog Epidemic Analyzer, a Java program that reveals the implicit and inferred links between blogs in an interactive, visual form. "Blogs are helping us get a better understanding of how things happen on the Internet," said Adar. "We're hopeful that in being able to do this research, we can apply the technology to other information, like e-mail, to improve productivity." =A9 [34]Copyright 2004, Lycos, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Your use of this website constitutes acceptance of the Lycos Note: You are reading this message either because you can not see our css files (served from Akamai for performance reasons), or because you do not have a standards-compliant browser. Read our [37]design notes for details. References Visible links 17. http://wired.com/news/feedback/mail/1,2330,761,00.html 18. http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,62537,00.html 21. http://www.blogpulse.com/ 22. http://www.giantmicrobes.com/ 23. http://www.google.com/technology/ 24. http://www-idl.hpl.hp.com/blogstuff/index.html # distributed via : no commercial use without permission # is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: majordomo@bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:54:14 -0500 Reply-To: Millie Niss on eathlink Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss on eathlink Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I thought Berryman umped out a window, but I could be wrong. I'll check the biograaphy I have. Millie ObBerryman Poem: I've found out why, that day, that suicide From the Empire State falling on someone's car Troubled you so; and why we quarrelled. War, Illness, an accident, I can see (you cried) But not this: What a bastard, not spring wide! . . I said a man, life in his teeth, could care Not much just whom he spat it on. . and far Beyond my laugh we argued either side. 'One has a right not to be fallen on! . .' (Our second meeting. . yellow you were wearing.) Voices of our resistance and desire! Did I divine then I must shortly run Crazy with need to fall on you, despairing? Did you bolt so, before it caught, our fire? Interesting that he said "one has a right not to be fallen on." I did an essay on Suicide, Art, and Humor, using Berryman as my primary example, which is on http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/essays/essays.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Corbett" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:54 AM Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd > didn't Berryman jump off a bridge? > > Mary Wollstonecraft jumped into the Thames I think twice, but > unsuccessfully. Her daughter by Gilbert Imlay did so successfully. > > i don't know that this counts, but Percy Shelley took himself and a > friend, Edward Williams, out in a boat on a clearly inclement day, and his > body later washed ashore. the legend has it that when the body was > burned, the heart remained untouched. > > Robert > > -- > Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, > Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the > B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the > Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of > Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop > UW Box: 351237 > > On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Alan Sondheim wrote: > > > Don't forget my predecessor when I was teaching at University of > > California, Irvine, Bas Jan Ader, who was teaching there and disappeared > > into the Pacific. - Alan > > > > > > On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, David Hadbawnik wrote: > > > > > I doubt if anyone on this list would've heard of > > > him, but Stephen Tudor, my poetry mentor at Wayne > > > State, disappeared while sailing by himself in one > > > of the great lakes. It's unlikely that he "jumped > > > ship," however; more probably an accident. Those > > > waters get very rough. > > > > > > DH > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of > > > cris cheek > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:38 AM > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd > > > > > > > > > Ray Johnson > > > > > > > > > >> Besides Hart Crane in 1932 returning from > > > Mexico + Spalding this year > > > >> -- > > > >> what other literary characters have 'jumped > > > ship' to meet an untimely > > > >> demise? > > > > > > > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko > > http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt > > Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > > finger sondheim@panix.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:17:29 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: three varieties of ad hominem: race, gender, and class MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Aaron, when I initially introduced the problem of the ad hominem attack on the board six months ago, it was out of a mischievous sense of humor over the fact that almost all arguments in the humanities are now ad hominem. That is to say that "standpoint" politics is ALL ABOUT Ad hominem argumentation. You are rich, so you don't know what you are talking about. You are white and male, so please die. Rarely are the messages this foregrounded, but this is the background message. Classical argumentation assumed that everyone was invited to speak in the community of thinkers -- even though of course many were not -- minorities, women, etc., were often left out of the critical discourse because of these "standpoints," while the white Christian male was the presumed speaker. Now this is reversed, or so it seems to me. But the ideal is to listen to another as if they share the same humanity as yourself. If we scroll back to Lockean humanism this is possible. But in Marxism everybody is always already identified, and we are supposed to either be in favor of them (minority, with a mental problem, and poor, for instance, means we had better listen, whereas able-bodied, Republican, means they are a reptile no matter what they are saying). If we listened to almost any of the classical grammars on argumentation, the humanities as they are currently being practiced would vanish. But the classical grammars come out of liberalism. The humanities now are so infused with race, gender, and class (all means of ad hominem dismissal or acceptance -- and all of which lean heavily on Marxism) that the classical grammars and all of their terminology are no longer used. Even the idea of logic is considered to be a white male phenomenon. For me, of course, it is a little hard to do without. But then I'm a white male. Even though I struggle with logic. Throwing out logic, or throwing out Locke, or throwing out the baby Jesus, is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Western civilization had some good things going for it, even though we've hit the third world pretty hard, and in some cases such as Haiti seem to be continuing to do so (I haven't read the Chomsky piece yet). -- Kirby. > > > Isn't the very concept of "ad hominem" a relic from a bygone era, though? > Can an objection of "ad hominem" really stand in light of postmodernism? > > -AB ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:48:58 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: The Text of Shelley's Body In-Reply-To: <200403101657.i2AGvbJG166802@pimout3-ext.prodigy.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Terrific spot Chris. For those who don't: Alan Halsey, 'The Text of Shelley's Death' (Sheffield: West House Books, 2001) a delirium of textual contradistinctions On Wednesday, March 10, 2004, at 05:13 PM, Chris Stroffolino wrote: > Do you know the book by Alan Halsey about Shelley's death? > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:20:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: FW: Gray's Body ID'd MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: P. Backonja i'm unable to send directly to the buf po list at the moment but would add weldon kees to the people already mentioned...even tho we really don't know best regards petra backonja pbackonja@yahoo.dk >Besides Hart Crane in 1932 returning from Mexico + >Spalding this year -- what other literary characters >have 'jumped ship' to meet an untimely demise? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:33:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: John Lowther From: Poetics List Administration Subject: please post MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; FORMAT=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lori, please post this for me as well thanks John subj: Many Calls for the UNREADABLE U N R E A D A B I L I T Y The Atlanta Poets Group (taalntaopestgropu), Eyedrum Art & Music Gallery (ydrmb), The Nameless (eyedrum's new imprint) and Perforations (_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _s) bring you UNREADABILITY, a Call for Work (yurdleayydhyihu)... U R N E D A B A L I I Y T * Many Calls for Unreadable ("poemy call") what's the first thing that came to mind? Hegel to Danielle Steel, Robert Frost to Khlebnikov. how would you do both find/make/provoke poetry *and* _____ Unread.(rhymes with 'deed') A doing against the grain with eyes and words. Read the unread? Unread the read? is this negating? deforming? transformative? political (as our desires are marketed to and resolutely slip away)? something-something-something i can't read? the hole in every whole? where the ink ran. what *was* the first thing that came to mind? readability but unreadability, inside out. rust patterns resolve to letters. ever sent. this candle is inadequate. unreadability is unanswered here, this is just the call after all just the call, you send the work calling back, unreadably. N U E R A D A I B L I T Y This is a show / gathering / performance / publication on several levels -- here are the parts of the hole U N R A E D A L I B I T Y * May 19th, a Wednesday - 8pm - $3 __Language Harm__ is a odd-months-only event at eyedrum, hosted by the a.p.g. The theme will be UNREADABILITY. looking for poetry works that could be projected during the event (a 2nd night could be added for more poetry films or animations if enough come in). R U N E A D A I L B I T Y * Unnamed Unreadable Poetry Show - a week or more in May overlapping the above. ...this will be a very transient exhibit. there is going to be a large art show going on in eyedrum's space and other large rooms in the building. i propose to post an exhibit of unreadable poetry in one of the side hallways. these will all be standard sized page printouts of attachments -- nothing will be returned to you -- (but it will be documented on the Perforations site with screen sized versions of all the pieces submitted & submitter's names and links & bios and such) Y U N R E A D A B I I L T * Perforations issue - ...interested in waxing unreadable on unreadability? here is the best place for this. U R N E A B A D L I T I Y * Limited Edition publication from THE NAMELESS ...the plan is to do a small edition box -- perhaps 50 copies of it -- with a CD of material from the show -- a different selection of pages in each box -- a unique cut piece of a large work of unreadable art/poetry (to be made during performance / projection night, May 19) -- other unmentionable unreadables -- each box with unique mixture of works U R N E D A A B I L T I Y * HOW TO SEND AND WHAT TO SEND, WHERE There will be not only the PERFORATIONS release, but also an event called UNREADABLE at eyedrum art and music gallery. Co-editors for both events will be Robert Cheatham, zeug1@earthlink.net, and John Lowther, lit@eyedrum.org. Any media is acceptable for either perforations or the eyedrum event. However, the perforations material must be web-ready, in any of the standard web formats (Flash, PDF, streaming audio, standard HTML, etc.) Queries considering web materials as well as submissions may be sent to Robert Cheatham, zeug1@earthlink.net. Materials for live presentation at eyedrum can be VHS, DVD, paper, audio, etc. Queries and submissions concerning the live presentation at eyedrum may be sent to John Lowther, lit@eyedrum.org. perforations is an aspect of Public Domain, Inc., a non-profit organization located in Atlanta, Georgia. http://www.pd.org Eyedrum Art and Music Gallery is a non-profit organization also located in Atlanta. For more information and mailing address for materials, got to http://www.eyedrum.org. U N R E A D A B I L I T Y * P E R F O R A T I O N S www.pd.org/topos/perforations.html * E Y E D R U M www.eyedrum.org * A T L A N T A P O E T S G R O U P www.atlantapoetsgroup.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:48:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: Re: call for poets to march in new york city on march 20th as a group In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Pyrrhics, more likely ======================================= "Within the memory of a rose no gardener has been known to die" Bernard le Bovier de Fontenelle. ======================================= Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver B.C. Canada V6A 1Y7 voice 604 255 8274 fax 604 255 8204 quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca ======================================= -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: 10-March-2004 8:08 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: call for poets to march in new york city on march 20th as a group Do poets march on iambic feet? Hal Not responsible for typographical terrors. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard { I would like to invite ALL poets, writers, artists and activists to march { with "poets for Peace" at "The World Still Says No To War" rally and protest on { Saturday March 20, 2004 in New York City. { We will assemble in front of Reminiscence located at 50 West 23rd Street { between 5th Ave and Ave of the Americas at 11a.m. { We will begin walking to the main rally at approximately 11:30a.m. { Main rally held at Madison Square Park 23rd street and Madison Avenue 12noon. { { All poets welcome ! { { For more information www. poetsagainstthewar.org . Click on readings and { enter the date and location,listed under Events in March 2004 in New York City. { { Thank you ! { { Nathaniel A. Siegel { poets for Peace { poets against the war { POETRY IS NEWS { { email nathanielsiegel@aol.com with any comments, suggestions, ideas { { please forward this information as appropriate ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:51:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: A call for action in IL... In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://transdada.blogspot.com/ A call for action in IL... spread the word.. let everyone you know in=20 IL...!!!!!! Marriage Protest on Cook County Clerk=92s Office, Ald. Mell=92s Daughter=20= Arrested by Cathy Seabaugh 2004-03-10 All activists are invited to join Illinois state Rep. Larry McKeon and=20= 44th ward Ald. Tom Tunney, both openly gay elected officials, at the=20 Dirksen Federal Building. 219 S. Dearborn, on Thursday, March 11, where=20= the two have planned a 1 p.m. appearance at the local office of Dennis=20= Hastert, this nation=92s Speaker of the House, who grew up less than 50=20= miles from Chicago > http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/gay/lesbian/news/ARTICLE.php?AID=3D4304= http://transdada.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:53:30 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Haiti by Chomsky MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Pierre, this is a very powerful article by Chomsky. I'm afraid that I agree with him for once. I didn't realize that Clinton had broken the oil embargo. The real ruling power in Haiti is the "shadow of the business elites" as Dewey so astutely said. This has been so since Wilson's invasion. What Wilson apparently thought -- was that Haiti needed foreign financal input in order to grow -- but the Haitian constitution had forbidden that anybody outside of Haiti could own Haitian land. Small tenant farmers growing yams and such could live a basic sustenance existence until Wilson's men rewrote the Haitian constitution to say that anybody could own Haitian land. All the most arable land was immediately sold to international corporations -- and now there are huge agricultural companies that own most of the Haitian land. German companies own a lot of Haitian land, too. All the tiny tenant farmers were kicked out, and mostly went to live in the slums of cities. It's not just money that needs to be given to these people. They need their land back. But huge foreign concerns are sucking too much money out of Haiti, and unless you're in bed with those concerns at the highest level, you are dead in Haiti. Because most of those gigantic agricultural concerns are growing inedible products like coffee and sugar cane food has to be imported, and so it is actually quite expensive. How to get these blood-sucking companies out of Haiti? It won't be easy. It would be like getting America to give the land back to the Indians, at this point. It won't happen. Aristide must have frightened them somewhat, so they had him removed. One of the only things I disagreed with in Chomsky's article is when he used "Washington" as a single subject. I think there are hundreds of thousands of politicians in Washington, and at least some of them must be sympathetic to Haiti. Who was the African-American woman who ran for the Democratic candidacy? She's a senator, as I recall, seemed fairly bright. Surely she's concerned. Surely Al Sharpton's concerned. Surely there are a handful of even Republicans who would like to do what is fair and right in Haiti. There was a time when Haiti was being considered to be added to the US as a state. They voted it down. So it isn't as if we are against them, or have always been. WE wanted to incorporate them. Had they been incorporated they would have been better off, in some ways. I hadn't heard of Paul Farmer's book. I will try to get one from Amazon. Thanks, Pierre. Oh, one note to Anastasios -- Aristide and Mel Gibson are both Catholics. They probably would see eye to eye on many issues. I'm a Lutheran, a believer in the Protestant work ethic and all that. It's a different paradigm. I'm assuming you're Greek Orthodox at least in origin, due to your name. I wasn't sure what you were getting at when you said you didn't want to see Mel Gibson as the answer to Haiti, or something. I thought this was a flame, actually, and I hope that you were punished. Mel is alive, and so am I, I believe, and it seemed you were making fun of us! "For we have no lasting city, but we seek the city which is to come" -- Hebrews 13:14 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:07:13 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd Comments: To: Millie Niss on eathlink In-Reply-To: <047201c406c8$b42a1860$423a4b43@ibmfb1014a> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" berryman jumped from the footbridge over the mississippi joining the "west bank" (social science area) from the "east bank" (humanities etc) of the U of MN. he landed not in the river,though, but on the road that runs alongside the west bank. in front of a car. i can show visitors the spot when they come through if desired. At 12:54 PM -0500 3/10/04, Millie Niss on eathlink wrote: >I thought Berryman umped out a window, but I could be wrong. I'll check the >biograaphy I have. > >Millie > >ObBerryman Poem: > > I've found out why, that day, that suicide > From the Empire State falling on someone's car > Troubled you so; and why we quarrelled. War, > Illness, an accident, I can see (you cried) > But not this: What a bastard, not spring wide! . . > I said a man, life in his teeth, could care > Not much just whom he spat it on. . and far > Beyond my laugh we argued either side. > > 'One has a right not to be fallen on! . .' > (Our second meeting. . yellow you were wearing.) > Voices of our resistance and desire! > Did I divine then I must shortly run > Crazy with need to fall on you, despairing? > Did you bolt so, before it caught, our fire? > >Interesting that he said "one has a right not to be fallen on." > >I did an essay on Suicide, Art, and Humor, using Berryman as my primary >example, which is on >http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/essays/essays.html > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Robert Corbett" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:54 AM >Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd > > >> didn't Berryman jump off a bridge? >> >> Mary Wollstonecraft jumped into the Thames I think twice, but >> unsuccessfully. Her daughter by Gilbert Imlay did so successfully. >> >> i don't know that this counts, but Percy Shelley took himself and a >> friend, Edward Williams, out in a boat on a clearly inclement day, and his >> body later washed ashore. the legend has it that when the body was >> burned, the heart remained untouched. >> >> Robert >> >> -- >> Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, >> Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the >> B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the >> Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of >> Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop >> UW Box: 351237 >> >> On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Alan Sondheim wrote: >> >> > Don't forget my predecessor when I was teaching at University of >> > California, Irvine, Bas Jan Ader, who was teaching there and disappeared >> > into the Pacific. - Alan >> > >> > >> > On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, David Hadbawnik wrote: >> > >> > > I doubt if anyone on this list would've heard of >> > > him, but Stephen Tudor, my poetry mentor at Wayne > > > > State, disappeared while sailing by himself in one > > > > of the great lakes. It's unlikely that he "jumped > > > > ship," however; more probably an accident. Those > > > > waters get very rough. >> > > >> > > DH >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: UB Poetics discussion group >> > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of >> > > cris cheek >> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:38 AM >> > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> > > Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd >> > > >> > > >> > > Ray Johnson >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Besides Hart Crane in 1932 returning from >> > > Mexico + Spalding this year >> > > >> -- >> > > >> what other literary characters have 'jumped >> > > ship' to meet an untimely >> > > >> demise? >> > > >> > >> > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko >> > http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt >> > Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm >> > finger sondheim@panix.com >> > -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:28:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: ah (questions about poetics) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="macintosh" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit do you like poems because of their "sound"? is that of primary importance? is it more important than what a poem "says"? or even what a poem does? does anybody else feel that many poems that are distinguished as great by virtue of the writer's "EAR" often fall flat (for you personally)? if so, does this mean you have a "tin ear"? or haven't learned the proper rules of verse? even "free verse"? does it make you question the value of the term "ear"? or "music"? at least as a term used to distinguish a "great" or "sublime" poem from an allegedly not-so-great one? is it possible that many of the defenses of a poem's greatness on the grounds of the "ear" are partially because the poem in question does not do much else except use language in "musical" ways? is it possible that poems that engage more blatantly in ways that could be recognized as emotionally or intellectually intense are often said to lack said "EAR"-- not because they really do--- but because it becomes harder to distinguish "music" from "feeling" or "thought" or "personality" or "performativity"? if you want to be called a poet, do you have to appeal to what's called the "ear" by those who divide the "ear" from other "body parts"? do you have to develop a systematic, or at least an eloquent non-systematic, prose defense of YOUR KIND OF "MUSIC" when it's not "SEEN" (or "READ") as "music" by many of the NOISIEST spokespeople for what's called poetry today? what is really meant by "ear" and "music" when so many of the poems or pieces of writing you're most interested in are over and over again considered "clunky" by "musical" standards put forth either by many who squeak (i mean speak) for what used to be called "avant-garde" or "mainstream"? is it put forth, in many cases, as an attempt to "mystify"? is it perhaps, as a standard, even MORE ARBITRARY, than other standards for determining whether a poem is good, or great, or sublime, etc? does any of this EAR TALK make you almost want to go so far as to say "a poem should not only be, but also mean"? and then do you feel you'll be misunderstood,and criticized, because you'll seem as one who does not appreciate the crucial importance of aesthetics in poetry, and even in written forms of communication, when in reality you've nothing against the ear or music but just feel there's a kind of privileged tyranny of these terms? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:49:44 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cyrill Duneau Subject: buypass Comments: To: Eric Byrne , "celine (www.worlock.org)" , delbarre , Andy Eeckhaut , "mayakovsky@yahoogroups.com" , "mick.wilson@iadt-dl.ie" , "mimetic@bluewin.ch" , mujegu mujegu , "randomART@yahoogroups.com" , "rhonag@eircom.net" , Situationist , "sophie.heitz" , "underground_arts@yahoogroups.com" , Chester Winowiecki , john younge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It was towards the end, just cuz its been a while, what's the "can't blame me" manifesto? plants to scream, to be tedious, irritating of an all-female amphibious musique concrete that has cleared up any misconceptions you may have had about? On a similar note, and likewise a forgettable which took place that morning of July 26, 1953 the fate of the Iraqi scientists has yet to develop any evidence that the camera systems actually reduce crime ********************************************************************** This document is strictly confidential and is intended for use by the addressee unless otherwise indicated. Allied Irish Banks and dull now: ("his claim on her attentions" "the walls are held together" "every book was there" "the story of me"despite his own little oriental styled suicidal urges) ********************************************************************** Re: random number 21786 by: light / motion / dreams in alabastrite at an elegant venue (or never respond) Application for Tourist Visa (= block) like a disease--->Chine Populaire///Colombie///République Dominicaine///Panama Before you go calling me a Nazi least halfway between and you will notice I avoid names for inconveniance, explain later and more like a kind of bizarro but on the XML side of the question function (success) by you is prohibited. REVOLUTION - Regurgitation. This is me though, I can get like this at times. without choking and squelching them? please die mist sabres en un futuro cercano, un brillante ingeniero genético japonés, megacorporaciones, utilizando los encantos de una joven y bella prostituta a delirium As modern classification systems were developed by at least 50% [I hear myself called] or remove it ex adyto cordis, each police desert is destined to go golden aplastic anemia, tribes that lived near the photographic panorama of the most reliable ways to identify - and disrupt - the global war on terror will affect the way you look at things you had previously taken for granted, the textures better, when pain exceeds resources for coping with pain may shock or disturb you behind the facts is still unknown the asylum - Too Stupid to Serve 800 meters (875 yards) two male Haitians killed, but they did not stop to collect the bodies It wasn't until 1863 politicians might say "zero-c'est la vie persistence of negative chapeaux bas" but obsolete awareness and the snowmobile vagabonds on a blank tv-screen are real - and have not been altered or enhanced in any way yet to scratch the surface design on stupidity In the ancient, mysterious ISO standard provocative there is partial parallel extension to Arcimboldo-Grotesque shared memory a relic from a bygone era - the sex life of a rose less than fifteen minutes later, a broken lace interrupted on and demonstrate his gramophone "no reasonable expectation of privacy" indicted by war crimes ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:49:51 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain FYI This in Ted Berrigan's Memorial Day: "I asked Tuli Kupferberg once, "Did you really jump off of The Manhattan Bridge? " "Yeah," he said, "I really did," "How come?" I sadi. "I thought that I had lost the ability to love," Tuli said, "So, I figured I might as well be dead. S I went one night to the top of The Manhattan Bridge, & after a few minutes, I jumped off." "That's amazing, "I said. "Yeah," Tuli said, " but nothing happened. I landed in the water, & I wasn't dead. So I swam ashore, & went home, & took a bath, & went to bed. Nobody even noticed."" Wystan -----Original Message----- From: Robert Corbett [mailto:rcorbett@U.WASHINGTON.EDU] Sent: Thursday, 11 March 2004 5:54 a.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd didn't Berryman jump off a bridge? Mary Wollstonecraft jumped into the Thames I think twice, but unsuccessfully. Her daughter by Gilbert Imlay did so successfully. i don't know that this counts, but Percy Shelley took himself and a friend, Edward Williams, out in a boat on a clearly inclement day, and his body later washed ashore. the legend has it that when the body was burned, the heart remained untouched. Robert -- Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop UW Box: 351237 On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Alan Sondheim wrote: > Don't forget my predecessor when I was teaching at University of > California, Irvine, Bas Jan Ader, who was teaching there and > disappeared into the Pacific. - Alan > > > On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, David Hadbawnik wrote: > > > I doubt if anyone on this list would've heard of > > him, but Stephen Tudor, my poetry mentor at Wayne > > State, disappeared while sailing by himself in one > > of the great lakes. It's unlikely that he "jumped > > ship," however; more probably an accident. Those > > waters get very rough. > > > > DH > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of cris cheek > > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:38 AM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd > > > > > > Ray Johnson > > > > > > >> Besides Hart Crane in 1932 returning from > > Mexico + Spalding this year > > >> -- > > >> what other literary characters have 'jumped > > ship' to meet an untimely > > >> demise? > > > > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko > http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt > Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > finger sondheim@panix.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:13:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: three varieties of ad hominem In-Reply-To: <001b01c40642$9ce72a20$45d9bed0@AARONLAPTOP> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Aaron Belz wrote: > Re-familiarizing myself with these logical fallacies > has reminded me what a > joy logic can be. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem > > Isn't the very concept of "ad hominem" a relic from > a bygone era, though? > Can an objection of "ad hominem" really stand in > light of postmodernism? > > -AB Can any objection whatsoever really stand in light of postmodernism? --Bob G. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:17:14 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Bechtel Subject: Re: augie's apology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think part of the charm of the MAG lies in what it represents. In a sense, there is expansion, however, I think the last issue had fewer authors represented than the issue before it. To me it represents (and presents) a large number of authors in various categories and geographic locations, all of which are good writers, and many of whom are great writers. This stands as at least a testament to the fact that at any point in history, there are many authors writing good work, not just one or two. In one sense this can be disturbing - to see how much decent work is being created right now (a bit destabilizing to the ego) - but also wonderful, because it does show a more wide-ranging view of the world of letters. In this way it is also inspiring. -Brent ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Belz" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 7:32 PM Subject: augie's apology > But I find M.A.G. radically weird -- it seems that the only > criterion there is expansion. I can't for the life of me locate an > editorial standard in the work published there. I believe it's intended to > reflect internet culture, or spam culture, a kind of in-box of poetry, > comment, and miscellaneous texts and modeling headshots. I sometmies laugh > at the send-ups but rarely have the energy to comb through much of the > actual writing. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:31:05 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: ah (questions about poetics) In-Reply-To: <200403102012.i2AKCLBS075738@pimout2-ext.prodigy.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 11/3/04 7:28 AM, "Chris Stroffolino" wrote: > and then do you feel you'll be misunderstood,and criticized, > because you'll seem as one who does not appreciate the crucial > importance of aesthetics in poetry, and even in written forms of > communication, when in reality you've nothing against the ear or music > but just feel there's a kind of privileged tyranny of these terms? I feel kind of opposite, Chris, in that where I am, to suggest that a poem might not necessarily "contain" a message or have "something to say", or may be "saying" in its shape and sound, creates all sorts of accusations of obfuscation and wank. So meaning (in the sense of being like Blair ON-MESSAGE) seems a privileged tyranny to me. Depends on one's context, I guess. Best A Alison Croggon Editor, Masthead http://www.masthead.net.au Home page http://www.alisoncroggon.com Blog http://alisoncroggon.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:16:50 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Interview with Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Interview with Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1064 >> excerpt: M: Let's put this in a broader historical context, because it leads to another question. In 1954, the US overthrew the elected President of Guatemala, Jacobo Arbenz. In ’64, the US was apparently involved in the events leading to the military coup against President Goulart of Brazil. The following year the US marines invaded the Dominican Republic, another intervention against a democratic government. The Sandinistas were elected in ’84, and the US spent the next six years destroying the country through warfare and sabotage, and even intervened in the 1990 election. H: You skipped Allende. [The U.S. was involved in the 1973 destabilization and overthrow of President Salvador Allende in Chile]. M: Yes… H: And Panama, and Grenada. M: Yes. The question is, the United States has gotten rid of most Latin American presidents that it didn't like. Why do you think you will be different? H: You have to look at each of these cases of intervention individually, in their historical context. Each case is unique. The overthrow of Arbenz in 1954 was done through an invasion. But it did not end there. It started a war that lasted for more than 40 years. The Dominican Republic, Panama, Grenada—those were also invasions. Venezuela also has to be looked at within a certain historical context. We have a strength that cannot be disregarded—a level of consciousness and mobilization that did not exist in these other countries. If you add up all the people who have participated in demonstrations since 1999 [on our side], counting each person as many times as they participated, the total is in the hundreds of millions. There were more than 8 million people who came out the day of the coup. Also Venezuela has armed forces that are very solid, united, and capable of counteracting any faction that could threaten democracy. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:48:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Tills Subject: ah (questions about poetics) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Really like this post and its questions, Chris! One thought in response: Seems that in one way, at least, insistence on = the value=20 of what is there for the ear, -- as well as placing materials to = emphasize various words,=20 meanings, via sound and the scoring on the page of same -- is part and parcel of a goal to decorate meaning, perhaps, as as opposed to, say, exploring it. In the same vein, when a Creeley, say, extols the virtues of = foregrounding=20 the reader's deepening capacity to respond to or with the "senses"=20 (or maybe it was Zukofsky and maybe something more to=20 the effect of accentuating the sensory faculties or something=20 like that), then that, too, becomes a/the program -- quite apart from, = say,=20 the infinite other things a writing, for example a poem or a poetry,=20 might mean, might mean to do, might participate in the discovery of. :) Steve=20 Steve Tills Microcomputer/Software Specialist MIS Dept.- G.W. Lisk Company, Inc. 315-462-4309 Stills@gwlisk.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:17:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Tills Subject: American Family Association Poll MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable AMERICAN FAMILY ASSOCIATION ONLINE POLL=20 YOUR VOTE IS NEEDED NOW!=20 You help is requested in gaining the opinion of on-line voters to the following question. Whom do you favor for the next President of the = United States - John Kerry, George W. Bush, or Ralph Nader?=20 Go to to = express your opinion.=20 Cast your vote. Forward to a friend. Help us feel the pulse of America.=20 Thanks, Steve Tills Microcomputer/Software Specialist MIS Dept.- G.W. Lisk Company, Inc. 315-462-4309 Stills@gwlisk.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:33:33 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ela kotkowska Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit &, let's not forget Paul Celan, who jumped of Le Pont d'Avignon -- as if jumping off a poem ... -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Maria Damon Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 2:07 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd berryman jumped from the footbridge over the mississippi joining the "west bank" (social science area) from the "east bank" (humanities etc) of the U of MN. he landed not in the river,though, but on the road that runs alongside the west bank. in front of a car. i can show visitors the spot when they come through if desired. At 12:54 PM -0500 3/10/04, Millie Niss on eathlink wrote: >I thought Berryman umped out a window, but I could be wrong. I'll >check the biograaphy I have. > >Millie > >ObBerryman Poem: > > I've found out why, that day, that suicide From the Empire State > falling on someone's car Troubled you so; and why we quarrelled. War, > Illness, an accident, I can see (you cried) But not this: What a > bastard, not spring wide! . . > I said a man, life in his teeth, could care Not much just whom he > spat it on. . and far Beyond my laugh we argued either side. > > 'One has a right not to be fallen on! . .' > (Our second meeting. . yellow you were wearing.) Voices of our > resistance and desire! > Did I divine then I must shortly run > Crazy with need to fall on you, despairing? > Did you bolt so, before it caught, our fire? > >Interesting that he said "one has a right not to be fallen on." > >I did an essay on Suicide, Art, and Humor, using Berryman as my primary >example, which is on >http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/essays/essays.html > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Robert Corbett" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:54 AM >Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd > > >> didn't Berryman jump off a bridge? >> >> Mary Wollstonecraft jumped into the Thames I think twice, but >> unsuccessfully. Her daughter by Gilbert Imlay did so successfully. >> >> i don't know that this counts, but Percy Shelley took himself and a >> friend, Edward Williams, out in a boat on a clearly inclement day, >> and his body later washed ashore. the legend has it that when the >> body was burned, the heart remained untouched. >> >> Robert >> >> -- >> Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, >> Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the >> B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the >> Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of >> Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop >> UW Box: 351237 >> >> On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Alan Sondheim wrote: >> >> > Don't forget my predecessor when I was teaching at University of >> > California, Irvine, Bas Jan Ader, who was teaching there and >> disappeared > into the Pacific. - Alan > > > On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, >> David Hadbawnik wrote: >> > >> > > I doubt if anyone on this list would've heard of > > him, but >> Stephen Tudor, my poetry mentor at Wayne > > > > State, disappeared while sailing by himself in one > > > of > the great lakes. It's unlikely that he "jumped > > > ship," however; > more probably an accident. Those > > > waters get very rough. >> > > >> > > DH >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of > > cris cheek > >> > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:38 AM > > To: >> POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd > > >> > > > > Ray Johnson > > > > > > >> Besides Hart Crane in 1932 >> returning from > > Mexico + Spalding this year > > >> -- > > >> >> what other literary characters have 'jumped > > ship' to meet an >> untimely > > >> demise? >> > > >> > >> > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko >> > http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt >> > Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm >> > finger sondheim@panix.com >> > -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:08:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Lew Welch left Gary Snyder's home on the Yuba above Nevada City to wander to his death in the Sierras (circa 1971). His prior work, The Song Mount Tamalpais Sings, had already proposed being devoured by Turkey Buzzards as a way to the next state of being. A beautiful poem by the way. Never found, animals or foul undoubtedly completed the job. A man who sang beautifully, but never "fit." Lew' step-son, Huie (sp?) Lewis of H___ Lewis and the News took an optional route. But they gone now, too, I believe. But it is curious to see the ways in which a number of artistically talented children of Beat writers took more institutionally stable, better paying routes routes (i.e. The various Jones/ Baraka children). But this diverges from Spalding who apparently decided there was no further way "to fit." Stephen V on 3/10/04 12:49 PM, Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG) at w.curnow@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ wrote: > FYI This in Ted Berrigan's Memorial Day: > > "I asked Tuli Kupferberg once, "Did you really jump off of The Manhattan > Bridge? " "Yeah," he said, "I really did," "How come?" I sadi. "I thought > that I had lost the ability to love," Tuli said, "So, I figured I might as > well be dead. S I went one night to the top of The Manhattan Bridge, & after > a few minutes, I jumped off." "That's amazing, "I said. "Yeah," Tuli said, " > but nothing happened. I landed in the water, & I wasn't dead. So I swam > ashore, & went home, & took a bath, & went to bed. Nobody even noticed."" > > Wystan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Corbett [mailto:rcorbett@U.WASHINGTON.EDU] > Sent: Thursday, 11 March 2004 5:54 a.m. > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd > > > didn't Berryman jump off a bridge? > > Mary Wollstonecraft jumped into the Thames I think twice, but > unsuccessfully. Her daughter by Gilbert Imlay did so successfully. > > i don't know that this counts, but Percy Shelley took himself and a friend, > Edward Williams, out in a boat on a clearly inclement day, and his body > later washed ashore. the legend has it that when the body was burned, the > heart remained untouched. > > Robert > > -- > Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, > Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the > B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the > Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of > Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop > UW Box: 351237 > > On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Alan Sondheim wrote: > >> Don't forget my predecessor when I was teaching at University of >> California, Irvine, Bas Jan Ader, who was teaching there and >> disappeared into the Pacific. - Alan >> >> >> On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, David Hadbawnik wrote: >> >>> I doubt if anyone on this list would've heard of >>> him, but Stephen Tudor, my poetry mentor at Wayne >>> State, disappeared while sailing by himself in one >>> of the great lakes. It's unlikely that he "jumped >>> ship," however; more probably an accident. Those >>> waters get very rough. >>> >>> DH >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: UB Poetics discussion group >>> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of cris cheek >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:38 AM >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd >>> >>> >>> Ray Johnson >>> >>> >>>>> Besides Hart Crane in 1932 returning from >>> Mexico + Spalding this year >>>>> -- >>>>> what other literary characters have 'jumped >>> ship' to meet an untimely >>>>> demise? >>> >> >> http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko >> http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt >> Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm >> finger sondheim@panix.com >> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:20:14 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Activist writer takes his own life MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT This is a sad week. Two writers who I admired very much had the same black idea. Gombergs writing can be read at www.planetfriendly.net/gomberg Tooker Gomberg presumed dead Canadian Press Halifax — Tooker Gomberg — an environmental activist, failed Toronto mayoral candidate and high-profile thorn in the side of Alberta Premier Ralph Klein — was missing and presumed dead Friday. Police said it appears Mr. Gomberg jumped off the middle of the Angus L. Macdonald Bridge just after midnight in the early hours Thursday morning. "We have a missing person report in relation to a 48-year-old man. We normally don't identify individuals, so officially I can't say this is who it is, but unofficially it is Mr. Gomberg," said Sgt. Don Spicer of the Halifax Regional Police. "All indications are he jumped off the bridge but we've not found a body so we have to treat it as a missing person at this time." Police found a helmet and bicycle on the bridge. Rebecca O'Brien, a friend of Mr.Gomberg and his wife, Angela Bischoff, said Mr.Gomberg suffered from depression on and off for the last three years. "It was depression that took his life. And his wife wants to refrain from the details of how the depression took his life," said Ms. O'Brien. She said Mr.Gomberg had moved to Halifax from the Toronto-area in September when Ms. Bischoff was hired by a local group to improve the bicycle transportation system. Mr.Gomberg volunteered at the Ecology Action Centre but became more and more despondent. "He said he lost his chutzpah," Ms. O'Brien said. When Ms. Bischoff, his partner of 17 years, returned from a social outing Wednesday, she found a suicide note, Ms. O'Brien said. Environmental groups in Halifax, Toronto, Montreal and Edmonton are planning memorials for him. Mr. Gomberg, an avid cyclist, founded one of Canada's first curbside recycling programs in Montreal and headed Edmonton's EcoCity Society. He was also elected to and served on Edmonton city council and cut a colourful figure as executive director of the Edmonton Bicycle Commuters. Mr.Gomberg became famous for his vociferous and unconventional sense of political theatre. Last spring, he was arrested at a rally protesting the war in Iraq when he used a megaphone without a permit. In 2002, he was dragged out by police from Toronto's tony Empire Club after shouting down Mr. Klein during the premier's speech on why Alberta doesn't like the Kyoto accord. In that year's Ontario municipal election, he ran for mayor of Toronto — and ended up as Mel Lastman's closest challenger, although the incumbent won 80 per cent of the vote. A few months later, he locked himself in a vault in Mr.Klein's Calgary constituency office, saying the Klein government had failed to act on a decade-old report on cutting greenhouse gas emissions. In June 2000, Mr. Gomberg protested at the World Petroleum Congress in Calgary and in March of that year he and other Greenpeace members chained themselves to a 447-tonne piece of oilsands equipment being shipped to Suncor Energy Ltd. in Fort McMurray, Alta. That same year, he organized a group of protesters who threw pennies at the head of Imperial Oil during the company's annual general meeting to make the point it would cost only pennies per share to reduce greenhouse gases. In 1990, when Mr. Klein was Alberta's environment minister, Mr. Gomberg led a group of placard-waving activists up on the stage at a hearing into a northern Alberta pulp mill and accused Mr. Klein of betraying the environment. In Edmonton, a spokeswoman in Mr. Klein's office said he wished to extend his sympathy to Mr. Gomberg's family. "The premier always recognized that Tooker was a man who was extremely dedicated to his environmental causes and had some colourful ways of advocating for the issues he believed in," said Marisa Etmanski. Mr. Gomberg's term on Edmonton city council was marked by his advocacy of bicycling. He once aggravated his fellow councillors by chaining his bike to Edmonton's new City Hall. Edm Ald. Allan Bolstad, who served with Gomberg, said, "Tooker seemed so indestructible. "That's one of the things that makes it so difficult for me to accept what I am hearing today." Brian Mason, now a provincial legislature member, also served with Gomberg on city council. He called him a man of conviction who walked or pedalled his bike or rode on public transit rather than drive a polluting vehicle. He wore clothes of natural fibres, he recycled, he composted and he gardened. "I have never seen anyone who walked the talk like Tooker did," he said. "He lived what he preached." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:51:18 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rodrigo Toscano Subject: The 'M' word MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I suppose the regularity of the diatribes against Marx on this list continue to cow some. Some not. Me, sometimes, too. "Moo." The regularity of the diatribes against one of the most interesting thinkers of all time, Marx, hath an effect indeed. A response! And so, also get me to stop looking down at my shoes today all day long because of Rummy (in the white house), O-Reilly (on the tube), and some homimens (on da' list), I'll start by saying (in the same simple and plain language that trashes Marx): thumbs down on Christ. Trained meat, Jesus (especially by now). And Luther, one of his more accomplished lieutenants--thanks for the memories? Xtians. Lunatics! Better to share a pint with Judas these days. See what's up with old Judas. Better yet, some cheery counsel I'd prefer with Sparticus. Give me Sparticus. Or Lucretius--any day, over the Nazarene. Quoting Frederic Jameson, on Marxism, what "it" "is"--basically, what it explores, from a myriad of different angles: "The nature, dynamics, and polarizing logic of social class; the labor theory of value; alienation and commodity reification; the hidden logic of historical dynamics, most specifically in a relationship to social revolution, but also in more static situations of domination or hegemony, national and international; a commitment to the problem of ideology (but not necessarily to any particular model of it), as well as to the problem of superstructures, in short, to the whole problem of the 'determination of consciousness by social being'; finally, a sense of the great overall organizing concept of Marxism which is the notion of the mode of production, a concept which ought to end by raising the most urgent issues of the difference between capitalism and pre-capitalist societies, of the originality or not of present-day consumer or late monopoly capitalism as against the classical kind, and of course, last but most important, the possible nature of socialism or communism as a social formation." I can think of many books of poetry in the last two years, from (generally) the (ooh) Big "M" perspective. I don't mention them here, as those authors can well HUAC themselves. Platform, a book of mine (Atelos Press, 2003), can be thought of as an engagement, or complex exploration of some the central themes of marxist historicism, as it changes its skins, coats, expressions, and perspectives. "Lutheran Surrealism?" The Bauble meets the Babble? Do tell. In brief, I've found a richness in marxist analysis and perspectives. It fills out what I'm reading in an expansive way (and what I'm reading doesn't have to be "marxist"--for Lucretius' sake!...for the record) And I'm constantly surprised at how off the mark ("intention") my poetry goes hither and thither, "forces out of my control"--a very Marxist thing. And so, does M-izm answer the everything-of-everything--no "it" doesn't, can (would) never--not even close. LIFE IS BIG. But M-izm also doesn't "say" that the world is flat either. Or how many angels dance on the head of a (manufactured) pin. Or that *anything* will (per say) return. So, on this return of Surrealism--we wonder, why, or rather how is it in any way a thing 't'all'. -Rodrigo Toscano ps. re: Jameson quote...note, 'determination of consciousness by social being', not "determination of social being by consciousness"...sounds like a chicken or the egg kinda thing...but lots of resistence to the big hairy ape M, is that "by social being" thing. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:50:47 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: three varieties of ad hominem: race, gender, and class In-Reply-To: <404F5BB8.54854191@delhi.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Funny Kirby that on the one hand you complain about Chomsky conflating a bunch of individual and different politicians to "Washington", and on the other you talk about all "liberals" as if they were a singular phenomenon. The idea that logic is a "white male phenomenon" is, for example, something a lot of women (and not only women) have taken issue with over the years. More so, I would hazard, than those who try to argue for some kind of essentialist "woman's language". > But in Marxism > everybody is always already identified, and we are supposed to either be in > favor of them (minority, with a mental problem, and poor, for instance, means > we had better listen, whereas able-bodied, Republican, means they are a > reptile > no matter what they are saying). This also sounds like a caricature to me, though it may have a truth in your context. But if it is so, it is a mirror of what you call "classical grammar", where people were all already identified as well, and certain types (female, black, semitic, mad, poor) were consequently dismissed as invalid. That is, the same mechanism, only with different validations. Not sure that I think of that mechanism as ad hominen, though. Best A Alison Croggon Editor, Masthead http://www.masthead.net.au Home page http://www.alisoncroggon.com Blog http://alisoncroggon.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:21:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: one reason i love the poetics list In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit these bizarre factoids i'd never find elsewhere, like Stephen Vincent on Huey Lewis being Lew Welch's step-son, and one a few months back posted by Elen Gebreab, which, in passing, mentioned that Wanda Coleman won an emmy award. When I googled it, I saw that Coleman had won for Days of Our Lives and she was the first African-American to win an emmy award for daytime TV writing. as ever, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcity.blog-city.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:17:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: please post (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 2:11 PM -0500 From: John Lowther To: Poetics List Administration Subject: please post Lori, please post this for me as well thanks John subj: Many Calls for the UNREADABLE U N R E A D A B I L I T Y The Atlanta Poets Group (taalntaopestgropu), Eyedrum Art & Music Gallery (ydrmb), The Nameless (eyedrum's new imprint) and Perforations (_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _s) bring you UNREADABILITY, a Call for Work (yurdleayydhyihu)... U R N E D A B A L I I Y T * Many Calls for Unreadable ("poemy call") what's the first thing that came to mind? Hegel to Danielle Steel, Robert Frost to Khlebnikov. how would you do both find/make/provoke poetry *and* _____ Unread.(rhymes with 'deed') A doing against the grain with eyes and words. Read the unread? Unread the read? is this negating? deforming? transformative? political (as our desires are marketed to and resolutely slip away)? something-something-something i can't read? the hole in every whole? where the ink ran. what *was* the first thing that came to mind? readability but unreadability, inside out. rust patterns resolve to letters. ever sent. this candle is inadequate. unreadability is unanswered here, this is just the call after all just the call, you send the work calling back, unreadably. N U E R A D A I B L I T Y This is a show / gathering / performance / publication on several levels -- here are the parts of the hole U N R A E D A L I B I T Y * May 19th, a Wednesday - 8pm - $3 __Language Harm__ is a odd-months-only event at eyedrum, hosted by the a.p.g. The theme will be UNREADABILITY. looking for poetry works that could be projected during the event (a 2nd night could be added for more poetry films or animations if enough come in). R U N E A D A I L B I T Y * Unnamed Unreadable Poetry Show - a week or more in May overlapping the above. ...this will be a very transient exhibit. there is going to be a large art show going on in eyedrum's space and other large rooms in the building. i propose to post an exhibit of unreadable poetry in one of the side hallways. these will all be standard sized page printouts of attachments -- nothing will be returned to you -- (but it will be documented on the Perforations site with screen sized versions of all the pieces submitted & submitter's names and links & bios and such) Y U N R E A D A B I I L T * Perforations issue - ...interested in waxing unreadable on unreadability? here is the best place for this. U R N E A B A D L I T I Y * Limited Edition publication from THE NAMELESS ...the plan is to do a small edition box -- perhaps 50 copies of it -- with a CD of material from the show -- a different selection of pages in each box -- a unique cut piece of a large work of unreadable art/poetry (to be made during performance / projection night, May 19) -- other unmentionable unreadables -- each box with unique mixture of works U R N E D A A B I L T I Y * HOW TO SEND AND WHAT TO SEND, WHERE There will be not only the PERFORATIONS release, but also an event called UNREADABLE at eyedrum art and music gallery. Co-editors for both events will be Robert Cheatham, zeug1@earthlink.net, and John Lowther, lit@eyedrum.org. Any media is acceptable for either perforations or the eyedrum event. However, the perforations material must be web-ready, in any of the standard web formats (Flash, PDF, streaming audio, standard HTML, etc.) Queries considering web materials as well as submissions may be sent to Robert Cheatham, zeug1@earthlink.net. Materials for live presentation at eyedrum can be VHS, DVD, paper, audio, etc. Queries and submissions concerning the live presentation at eyedrum may be sent to John Lowther, lit@eyedrum.org. perforations is an aspect of Public Domain, Inc., a non-profit organization located in Atlanta, Georgia. http://www.pd.org Eyedrum Art and Music Gallery is a non-profit organization also located in Atlanta. For more information and mailing address for materials, got to http://www.eyedrum.org. U N R E A D A B I L I T Y * P E R F O R A T I O N S www.pd.org/topos/perforations.html * E Y E D R U M www.eyedrum.org * A T L A N T A P O E T S G R O U P www.atlantapoetsgroup.net ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:23:29 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Activist writer takes his own life In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable tooker gomberg --name sounds familiar. did he go to hampshire college in the 1970s? At 7:20 PM -0330 3/10/04, Kevin Hehir wrote: >This is a sad week. Two writers who I admired very much had the same black >idea. > >Gombergs writing can be read at >www.planetfriendly.net/gomberg > > >Tooker Gomberg presumed dead > >Canadian Press > >Halifax =97 Tooker Gomberg =97 an environmental activist, failed Toronto >mayoral candidate and high-profile thorn in the side of Alberta Premier >Ralph Klein =97 was missing and presumed dead Friday. > >Police said it appears Mr. Gomberg jumped off the middle of the Angus L. >Macdonald Bridge just after midnight in the early hours Thursday morning. > >"We have a missing person report in relation to a 48-year-old man. We >normally don't identify individuals, so officially I can't say this is who >it is, but unofficially it is Mr. Gomberg," said Sgt. Don Spicer of the >Halifax Regional Police. > >"All indications are he jumped off the bridge but we've not found a body >so we have to treat it as a missing person at this time." > >Police found a helmet and bicycle on the bridge. > >Rebecca O'Brien, a friend of Mr.Gomberg and his wife, Angela Bischoff, >said Mr.Gomberg suffered from depression on and off for the last three >years. > >"It was depression that took his life. And his wife wants to refrain from >the details of how the depression took his life," said Ms. O'Brien. > >She said Mr.Gomberg had moved to Halifax from the Toronto-area in >September when Ms. Bischoff was hired by a local group to improve the >bicycle transportation system. > >Mr.Gomberg volunteered at the Ecology Action Centre but became more and >more despondent. > >"He said he lost his chutzpah," Ms. O'Brien said. > >When Ms. Bischoff, his partner of 17 years, returned from a social outing >Wednesday, she found a suicide note, Ms. O'Brien said. > >Environmental groups in Halifax, Toronto, Montreal and Edmonton are >planning memorials for him. > >Mr. Gomberg, an avid cyclist, founded one of Canada's first curbside >recycling programs in Montreal and headed Edmonton's EcoCity Society. > >He was also elected to and served on Edmonton city council and cut a >colourful figure as executive director of the Edmonton Bicycle Commuters. > >Mr.Gomberg became famous for his vociferous and unconventional sense of >political theatre. > >Last spring, he was arrested at a rally protesting the war in Iraq when he >used a megaphone without a permit. > >In 2002, he was dragged out by police from Toronto's tony Empire Club >after shouting down Mr. Klein during the premier's speech on why Alberta >doesn't like the Kyoto accord. > >In that year's Ontario municipal election, he ran for mayor of Toronto =97 >and ended up as Mel Lastman's closest challenger, although the incumbent >won 80 per cent of the vote. > >A few months later, he locked himself in a vault in Mr.Klein's Calgary >constituency office, saying the Klein government had failed to act on a >decade-old report on cutting greenhouse gas emissions. > >In June 2000, Mr. Gomberg protested at the World Petroleum Congress in >Calgary and in March of that year he and other Greenpeace members chained >themselves to a 447-tonne piece of oilsands equipment being shipped to >Suncor Energy Ltd. in Fort McMurray, Alta. > >That same year, he organized a group of protesters who threw pennies at >the head of Imperial Oil during the company's annual general meeting to >make the point it would cost only pennies per share to reduce greenhouse >gases. > >In 1990, when Mr. Klein was Alberta's environment minister, Mr. Gomberg >led a group of placard-waving activists up on the stage at a hearing into >a northern Alberta pulp mill and accused Mr. Klein of betraying the >environment. > >In Edmonton, a spokeswoman in Mr. Klein's office said he wished to extend >his sympathy to Mr. Gomberg's family. > >"The premier always recognized that Tooker was a man who was extremely >dedicated to his environmental causes and had some colourful ways of >advocating for the issues he believed in," said Marisa Etmanski. > >Mr. Gomberg's term on Edmonton city council was marked by his advocacy of >bicycling. He once aggravated his fellow councillors by chaining his bike >to Edmonton's new City Hall. > >Edm Ald. Allan Bolstad, who served with Gomberg, said, "Tooker seemed so >indestructible. > >"That's one of the things that makes it so difficult for me to accept what >I am hearing today." > >Brian Mason, now a provincial legislature member, also served with Gomberg >on city council. > >He called him a man of conviction who walked or pedalled his bike or rode >on public transit rather than drive a polluting vehicle. > >He wore clothes of natural fibres, he recycled, he composted and he >gardened. > >"I have never seen anyone who walked the talk like Tooker did," he said. >"He lived what he preached." -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:28:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd In-Reply-To: <200403102233.i2AMXw1T028190@merle.it.northwestern.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII and Deleuze of course in his defenestration... alan On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, ela kotkowska wrote: > &, let's not forget Paul Celan, who jumped of Le Pont d'Avignon -- as if > jumping off a poem ... > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Maria Damon > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 2:07 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd > > berryman jumped from the footbridge over the mississippi joining the "west > bank" (social science area) from the "east bank" (humanities > etc) of the U of MN. he landed not in the river,though, but on the road > that runs alongside the west bank. in front of a car. i can show visitors > the spot when they come through if desired. > > At 12:54 PM -0500 3/10/04, Millie Niss on eathlink wrote: > >I thought Berryman umped out a window, but I could be wrong. I'll > >check the biograaphy I have. > > > >Millie > > > >ObBerryman Poem: > > > > I've found out why, that day, that suicide From the Empire State > > falling on someone's car Troubled you so; and why we quarrelled. War, > > Illness, an accident, I can see (you cried) But not this: What a > > bastard, not spring wide! . . > > I said a man, life in his teeth, could care Not much just whom he > > spat it on. . and far Beyond my laugh we argued either side. > > > > 'One has a right not to be fallen on! . .' > > (Our second meeting. . yellow you were wearing.) Voices of our > > resistance and desire! > > Did I divine then I must shortly run > > Crazy with need to fall on you, despairing? > > Did you bolt so, before it caught, our fire? > > > >Interesting that he said "one has a right not to be fallen on." > > > >I did an essay on Suicide, Art, and Humor, using Berryman as my primary > >example, which is on > >http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/essays/essays.html > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Robert Corbett" > >To: > >Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:54 AM > >Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd > > > > > >> didn't Berryman jump off a bridge? > >> > >> Mary Wollstonecraft jumped into the Thames I think twice, but > >> unsuccessfully. Her daughter by Gilbert Imlay did so successfully. > >> > >> i don't know that this counts, but Percy Shelley took himself and a > >> friend, Edward Williams, out in a boat on a clearly inclement day, > >> and his body later washed ashore. the legend has it that when the > >> body was burned, the heart remained untouched. > >> > >> Robert > >> > >> -- > >> Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, > >> Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the > >> B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the > >> Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of > >> Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop > >> UW Box: 351237 > >> > >> On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Alan Sondheim wrote: > >> > >> > Don't forget my predecessor when I was teaching at University of > >> > California, Irvine, Bas Jan Ader, who was teaching there and > >> disappeared > into the Pacific. - Alan > > > On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, > >> David Hadbawnik wrote: > >> > > >> > > I doubt if anyone on this list would've heard of > > him, but > >> Stephen Tudor, my poetry mentor at Wayne > > > > > State, disappeared while sailing by himself in one > > > of > > the great lakes. It's unlikely that he "jumped > > > ship," however; > > more probably an accident. Those > > > waters get very rough. > >> > > > >> > > DH > >> > > > >> > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > > >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of > > cris cheek > > >> > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:38 AM > > To: > >> POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd > > > >> > > > > Ray Johnson > > > > > > >> Besides Hart Crane in 1932 > >> returning from > > Mexico + Spalding this year > > >> -- > > >> > >> what other literary characters have 'jumped > > ship' to meet an > >> untimely > > >> demise? > >> > > > >> > > >> > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko > >> > http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt > >> > Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > >> > finger sondheim@panix.com > >> > > > > -- > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm finger sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:33:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Scappettone" Subject: Zukofsky Anew #15 - first line query Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit A question from the members of a Berkeley Zukofsky reading group: Does anyone reading this have access to the original ms of Anew? If so, is the first line of the poem "Not it was no dream of coming death," as the Hopkins edition of Zukofsky's Complete Short Poems reads, or is it "No it was no dream of coming death," as the Norton edition (All...) reads? Lyn, Jean, Ruth, Colin & I assume it's the latter, but don't have any way to confirm it. We'd be thankful for any input. Also if anyone out there has access to Zukofsky's map/graph of A-7 we'd be grateful & moved to see a xerox or pdf, if possible. js ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:00:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Indie Press Showcase at the Brooklyn Brewery with Soft Skull, Akashic & Seven Stories! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Come on down next Tuesday night! Tuesday, March 16 2004 6:30pm Indie Press Showcase at the Brooklyn Brewery with Soft Skull, Akashic & Seven Stories! Brooklyn Brewery Brewers Row 79 North 11th Street Brooklyn, NY 11211 Telephone: 718-486-7422 www.brooklynbrewery.com Douglas Martin will read from Haiku Year with other special guest Soft Skull authors, including Hal Sirowitz, Jennifer Knox, Wanda Phipps and Daniel Nester! Authors from Akashic Press will include: Benjamin Weissman (author of HEADLESS), Dennis Cooper (author of MY LOOSE THREAD) and Robert Arellano (author of DOM DIMAIO OF LA PLATA). Authors from Seven Stories will read to boot! for info. contact: Kristin Pulkkinen Publicity Associate Soft Skull Press 71 Bond Street Brooklyn, NY 11217 Ph: (718) 643-1599 Fax: (718) 643-0879 kristin@softskull.com -- Wanda Phipps Hey, don't forget to check out my website MIND HONEY http://users.rcn.com/wanda.interport (and if you have already try it again) poetry, music and more! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:24:54 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Springtail Subject: Re: ah (questions about poetics) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I think the world has been "made safe for soundless poems" ALREADY. K. S. _________________________________________________________________ Check out the Xtra gaming servers @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:45:43 -0500 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Brian Kim Stefans [arras.net]" Subject: Brian Kim Stefans and Michael Gizzi reading at the Bowery Poetry Club, Sat. 13th at 4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, the subject line says it all... Michael's a great and funny poet, Google him at will and find out! SEGUE READING SERIES AT THE BOWERY POETRY CLUB Winter / Spring 2004 http://www.bowerypoetry.com/ 308 BOWERY, JUST NORTH OF HOUSTON SATURDAYS FROM 4 - 6 PM $5 admission goes to support the readers MARCH 13 BRIAN KIM STEFANS and MICHAEL GIZZI Brian Kim Stefans' latest book is Fashionable Noise: On Digital Poetics. His website is www.arras.net. He's recently taken up playwriting and will premiere a short piece at Chashama in February. Michael Gizzi moved to Providence last summer. His most recent book is My Terza Rima (The Figures). He will read from his latest ms. Facing Life. Raymond Hernandez {Bass Guitar and Vocals} has been the bass player for Knight Riders since March of 2000. He has been involved in the world of live music for 30 years. With God's help, at a very young age, he taught himself to play guitar and sing. He has been a member of the choir at St. Andrew's Catholic Church in Channelview, TX for 25 years and is very much involved in several other church organizations. Before joining Knight Riders, he operated the band Southern Justice for nearly 4 years. In November of 1999, Raymond had a challenge slap him in the face when he severed the end of his index finger with a circular saw. In less than a week, he managed to create new ways to play his chords and fought through the pain so that he would not miss a gig. Today, his finger is of no challenge to his performance. He entertains any and every crowd no matter how small or large and still makes it to church every Sunday. (He won't be appearing at this reading.) ____ A R R A S: new media poetry and poetics http://www.arras.net Hinka cumfae cashore canfeh, Ahl hityi oar hied 'caw taughtie! "Do you think just because I come from Carronshore I cannot fight? I shall hit you over the head with a cold potatoe." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:02:30 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harriet Zinnes Subject: reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Saturday, March 13, at the Bowery Poetry Club (308 Bowery) will overflow with poets. Harriet Zinnes will be reading there too along with other poets at l:00 -- 4: 00 pm. Hope to see some of you there! And we'll stay for the other enticing readings! Best Harriet ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:12:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd In-Reply-To: <200403102233.i2AMXw1T028190@merle.it.northwestern.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v612) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mar 10, 2004, at 5:33 PM, ela kotkowska wrote: > &, let's not forget Paul Celan, who jumped of Le Pont d'Avignon -- as > if > jumping off a poem .. oops -- he did jump off a poem but it was "Le Pont Mirabeau" in Paris, not le"Pont d'Avignon", which is a children's song. Pierre > ___________________________________________________________ The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:16:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: inside / among / outside MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII inside / among / outside http://www.asondheim.org/insideaes.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/amongaes.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/outsideaes.jpg i am very very proud of these. they took a great deal of my imaginary to perform. i think i performed them well. for a human being there is little to say that cannot be said in pictures. these are great pictures. and they have a lot of thought in them about philosophy and metaphysics and deconstruction and even the differend. __ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:31:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Alan SONDHEIM vs Cyrill DUNEAU WHATABOUTMOTVALISE Collaboration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >what about mot-valise? Alan Sondheim vs Cyrill Duneau AT: http://www.asondheim.org/whataboutmotvalise.htm collision collusion maybe collaboration maybe colloidal we worked and worked on this text and it is for your eyes only ___ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:39:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: todd baron Subject: Reading in Los Angeles In-Reply-To: <200403102115.1b1ixm5Yg3NZFji0@eagle> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Upcoming event at Beyond Baroque SATURDAY MARCH 13th - 7:30 PM TODD BARON and CHARLES ALEXANDER In celebration of two new books: CHARLES ALEXANDER'S newest book of poetry is Near or Random Acts (Singing Horse, 2004). Previous books include Hopeful Buildings (Chax), arc of light/dark matter (Segue Books), Pushing Water 1-6 (Standing Stones), Four Ninety Eight to Seven (Meow), and Etudes: D & D (Quarry). Alexander directs Chax Press. TODD BARON is author of the just published TV Eye (Chax, 2004); Outside (Avenue B Books); Tell (Texture); This...Seasonal Journal (paradigm); Return of the World (O Books); Partials (e.g.); Dark as a Hat (Abacus, Poets and Poets); and last year's That Looks At One and Speaks (Factoryschool books). He co-founded Littoral Books , Remap magazine, and Issue magazine. He has taught at the Otis Art Institute, Oakwood school, and currently Crossroads School for the Arts and sciences. His work has been in many of the last 2 decades most important literary publications. CHAX books are available form the publisher, independent booksellers and Small Press Distribution. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:43:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: ** Baseball poems needed ASAP ** Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi all, more baseball poems needed, so please email them this way asap (no later than this coming monday, march 15, by 12 noon nyc time). thanks, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcity.blog-city.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 01:45:19 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Spaulding Gray found MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Columbus, OH(AP): Spaulding Gray found in the next issue of Pavement Saw, but until then here is an announcement for #8 released in 2004 PAVEMENT SAW 8: THE MAN PO ALL MALE UNFINISHED AUTHOR INTERVIEW ISSUE We thought the Whitey Issue or the Minty Fresh Pirate Issue could not be bested but in 2002 they were. But how does one possibly top the Ultimate Issue? We were unsure but we were hoping with the help of one Anti-Laureate, a Poet Laureate, and a bunch of masculine energy we might be able to figure it out. Because all journals should cantankerously define themselves, we will hereby dedicate this issue as the UNFINISHED MALE AUTHOR INTERVIEW ISSUE or in more familiar terms: THE MAN PO. Besides what did we have to lose, tenure? Is this another masculine concept with deep critical implications? ---------- An Excerpt of the Editor’s Note from The Greatest Literary Journal in the World Howdy. Unlike most of our recent issues which have had some form of an introduction holding the issue together, here we cannot begin to form any sort of cogency. For the past number of months we have been sitting around, mail has arrived, the economy has gone into a slump, thefts were committed, the mail load further increased due to aforementioned societal downturn, there was an increase in poems which violated the interns, the rejections turned nasty, and of all of this the most unfortunate occurrence was that no nameable theme surfaced. And how could we surpass the magnificence of our previous journal? With a name like the Ultimate Issue we were doomed. Our sleeping schedules changed, there were full brown outs during direct sunlight, we were getting depressed & tried everything—getting jobs, swimming in mall fountains, fung shui, listening to Devo, taking each other’s medication. Even when our primary college, as reported recently in the New York Times, voted to use the term “evolution” rather than “changes over time” in science courses, a real advancement for our city, for which we salute the brave and avant guard decision of Ohio State University, it did not temper our folly. The post-Ultimate depression was upon us. In another attempt to lift our spirits, I created a subscription form for the Ultimate Issue (#7) worded in an ambiguous way. As a result, I have netted and kept signed confessions from over 80 writers admitting they are Poor Poets. Some of these writers have always stunk. These gave us many brief tee-hees, but our only hope is that by fully admitting our worthiness for inclusion into the Cannon we will further display our center of attention deficit disorder and extricate ourselves from moroseness. As the morose host, I have congealed a finery of chicanery for the issue. --- [ this area shows how to write negative reviews, supplies examples & encourages the process, some samples below] “The next time a mood strikes to read Italian Sonnets by a Turkish refugee, this is a must read!” “The spirit of overcoming others can hardly be overlooked in the poem ‘Trousers.’” --- We hope you will find solace and inspiration to write negative reviews; all we ask for is a copy of the published essay. ----- Another scandal, brought to my attention, and into my home, this summer by an east coast poet, which shows as nearly as lame an area in need of serious poetic attention, are exercises in poem writing manuals distributed to creative writing classes. Normally I am far removed from viewing such suspect devices, but recently a skid of mostly unopened textbooks containing the offending material was hidden at my house for a few days by a well known MFA program-teaching poet working on doubling his income. ------ We propose including other inventive techniques in these writing guides so we can continue to have a staff, and to stop the proliferation of this infectious nonsense. I call these exercises Poetry Infliction Inhibitors. [various exercises originally here, the one below is my favorite--DB] 4.) Write a poem based on fear. Wear a dark sweatshirt with a hood large enough to cover your entire face when worn. This is called a “hoody.” Wear it with ground dragging jeans and expensive sneakers. Walk around neighborhoods such as Mount Vernon and 20th in Columbus. For more daring poems try walking the South Bronx nowhere near the Throgs Neck Bridge or Diamond and 34th in Philly. Record your experience in line breaks that reflect the use of breath you experience. As a variant, call yourself Uncle Sammy and wear a star spangled hoody in Arabic countries. ------- Maybe, someday, if we meet, we can teach you the Secret Pavement Saw Handshake. Until then, Be well David Baratier, Editor, Pavement Saw Press ------------- SAMPLE QUESTIONS DB: Looking at the shelf of books you wrote I am wondering: why did you write so many? Was it intentional? Vindictive? DB: Why is the Ronald Mc Donald House a good place to meet women? DB: What is a School of Continuation? Do you meet in secret locations on the lower mountain side? Can I join? DB: In one of the earlier drafts of _Poet be like God: Jack Spicer and the San Francisco Renaissance_ not only is Jess Collins portrayed as the evil anti-poet, usually referred to in the text only by his first name like Satan or Osama or Prince, but surprisingly, you are also treated in a similar manner. Since I am about to be roasted by a book that is as yet unpublished, and you appeared as a wonderful two named entity in the published Wesleyan edition, do you have any advice or techniques to share? DB: Back to religion and returning to the idea of a poem being pneumatic, rather than of breath, or to breathe in the way Olson suggested for the line, the poem works as a translocutor, and I would think pneumatolysis might be closer in kind. As if the poem is a doctrine, an intermediary of spirits between God and man, intended to inspire a movement from one condition to another. Care to comment? --------------- THE MAN PO Feature: All Male Author Unfinished Interview Tabloid George Bowering Tony Gloeggler Peter O’ Leary Anselm Hollo John M. Bennett Ivan Arguelles Simon Perchik Mark DuCharme With Arguments From Jim Leftwich Richard Kostelanetz And Poems By Guy R. Beining Steve Davenport Jesse Glass Arthur Gottlieb A. Kalfopoulou Daniel Kane Naton Leslie Catfish McDaris Jeff Morgan Stephen Page K. Rigby John Schertzer M. Stein Roger Taus M. E. Weems Tyrone Williams Issue #9 [pub date 5/1/04] Issue #8 The Man PO: Unfinished All Male Interview Tabloid $7 Issue #7 The Ultimate Issue $7 Issue #6 The Minty Fresh Pirate Issue $6 Issue #5 Suicide Gun Issue $5 choose 8 & 9 for $12, or choose 5 thru 8 for $22 or choose all 5 for $25 all prices include postage to US destinations ask for other locations Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 02:23:11 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Pavement Saw 9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Advance notice-- Pavement Saw #9 With a forward ranging from Black & White M&M's to commentary about Janet Jackson's boob from a former model, America's Top Model, a poem whitening solution, a surprise conspiracy involving the new epic movie length, Martha Stewart, and airing a poet Style Court session. Oh yeah-- issue is Adkins friendly steak illustration on back cover is where to place meat for low carb meal. Feature: Roy Bentley Barry Ballard Jonathan Barrett Jackie Bartley Michele Battiste Richard Blevins Alan Catlin Adam Coatney Joshua Corey Paola Corso Christopher Davis Albert Flynn DeSilver Timons Esaias Gregory Hischak Andrew Kaufman David Kirschenbaum Leslie Anne Mcilroy Kristy Odelius Robert Perchan Christine Rhein Jenny James Robinson James Smith Susan Thomas Tyrone Williams Don Winter Issue #9 $7, 8 & 9, $12 postage paid to US locations Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 03:29:53 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: I.D'd Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kosinski in a bathtub Dylayn Thomas in a shot glass Ted Berrigan in a coke bottle lost 10 lbs..drinkin' lotsa H20..Drno... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 02:31:17 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ela kotkowska Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable oui, merci, tout =E0 fait.=20 on a beau =E0 se mirer si tous les paris nient l'avion!=20 -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] = On Behalf Of Pierre Joris Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:12 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd On Mar 10, 2004, at 5:33 PM, ela kotkowska wrote: > &, let's not forget Paul Celan, who jumped of Le Pont d'Avignon -- as=20 > if jumping off a poem .. oops -- he did jump off a poem but it was "Le Pont Mirabeau" in Paris, = not le"Pont d'Avignon", which is a children's song. Pierre > ___________________________________________________________ The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 03:51:14 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: 4 Questions.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I always ask Tuli once a yr... why he jumped i always ask Rashid what was it like to play with 'trane rather than riding the shaky elevator Tuli decides to walk rather than Greene St. t'will be Ali's Alley Rashid decides why did the Jews do it? if there's a 4th question why don't you ask my ,lovely, youngest one.. C's birthday...drn...'04 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:46:27 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ela kotkowska Subject: Re: I.D'd In-Reply-To: <23959424.1078993796000.JavaMail.root@wamui01.slb.atl.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 and thomas merton--- was it a fan short-circuit, or was it a lamp? (a palm! l'amp=E8re!) among the strangest suicides is stanislaw ignacy witkiewicz who, on sept = 1, 1939, besieged by german and russian armies, climbed the mountains, and tried to slit his wrists... vainly! ... having taken so much drugs... -- until, finally, his throat... as, besieged by war, off by a mere day... -- walter benjamin... and what about arthur cravan -- who knows! perhaps made it to the shore, perhaps drowned. and what happened to ren=E9 crevel ...=20 are we talking only about the drowned? about the disowned (of life)?=20 julian tuwim, a Polish bard, commits suicide in the u.s....=20 ok, and so on, foucault (where?) praises the act! in its asymetry to the passivity of birth... -- why does it fascinate us so much? (as the chain = of emails proves) if i were to launch a poetic inquiry, i would ask, how does death figure into your work? what is your poems' proximity to death? if a poem is a surivival, an excess of life, how and what does it that survive? not a = self, surely...(?) what is it that you hope will survive? or do you write for = the sound of it? and if for the sound, for the sound of what? in your work, how do you define death? and whose? From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] = On Behalf Of Harry Nudel Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 2:30 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: I.D'd Kosinski -- death kosi with a kosa, a scythe in a bathtub Dylan Thomas in a shot glass -- shot right through Ted Berrigan -- der Tod in a coke bottle lost 10 lbs..drinkin' lotsa H20..Drno... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:37:28 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Re: I.D'd Comments: To: ela kotkowska In-Reply-To: <200403111446.i2BEkoLA014083@merle.it.northwestern.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII for a catalogue of literary suicides I'd recommend David Markson's 1996 novel Reader's Block. I'd recommend it anyway as it is fantastic! I actually read it at the same time as I read Mathew's 20 Lines a Day while I was trying to finish my MPhil. Reader's Block is a great book! later, kevin -- --------------------------- http://paulmartintime.ca/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:09:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Renee Ashley Subject: Re: I.D'd MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kevin, I second Reader's Block. I just finished it yesterday. I couldn't put it down. I think it's a real writers' book. Renee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Hehir" To: Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [POETICS] I.D'd > for a catalogue of literary suicides I'd recommend David Markson's 1996 > novel Reader's Block. > > I'd recommend it anyway as it is fantastic! > > I actually read it at the same time as I read Mathew's 20 Lines a Day > while I was trying to finish my MPhil. > > Reader's Block is a great book! > > later, > kevin > > -- > --------------------------- > http://paulmartintime.ca/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:21:52 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Diggs & Conrad: Poetry Project, 3/15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Latasha N. Nevada Diggs &=20 CAConrad Monday, March 15 8pm Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church in the Bowery 131 E. 10th St. New York City ------------- Writer and vocalist Latasha N. Nevada Diggs' literary and sound works have=20 been featured and recorded in various publications and audio projects rangin= g=20 from rock to house music.=A0 She is the author of two chapbooks, Ichi-Ban: f= rom=20 the files of negr=EDta mu=F1eca Linda and Ni-Ban: Villa Miser=EDa, as well a= s the=20 writer and producer of an experimental audio essay, "Televis=EDon".=A0 A fel= low of the=20 Cave Canem Workshop for African American Poets, she was the 2002 artist in=20 residence at Harvestworks Digital Media Arts Center.=A0 She has received=20 fellowships and scholarships in the field of poetry from both the New York F= oundation=20 for the Arts and Naropa University's Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poet= ics. Some of her online links: http://www.aozoramarket.com/eng/ ------------- http://www.drunkenboat.org/ ------------- http://www.nyfa.org/nyfa_artists_detail.asp?pid=3D4962 ------------- http://womenarts.org/ ------------- http://cavecanempoets.org ------------- CAConrad has three forthcoming books: DEVIANT PROPULSION (Soft Skull Press),= =20 advancedELVIScourse (Buck Downs Books), and FRANK (The Jargon Society). He=20 co-edits FREQUENCY Audio Journal with Magdalena Zurawski, and edits BANJO: P= oets=20 Talking, and 9for9. Among other things, he is currently collaborating with=20 poet Frank Sherlock on their project "The City Real & Imagined: Philadelphi= a=20 Poems," also with Frank Sherlock & Jennifer Coleman on project "7." He is p= art=20 of The Philly Sound: http://phillysound.blogspot.com Some of his online links: http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/xconnect/i20/t/conrad1.html ------------- http://www.tameme.org/issue_2/excerpts/conr-ex.html ------------- http://www.lodestarquarterly.com/work/153/ ------------- http://poetry.about.com/library/weekly/aa030403n.htm ------------- http://www.muse-apprentice-guild.com/winter_2003/caconrad/home.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:23:27 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: I.D'd In-Reply-To: <00b101c4077a$ebac7910$da66fea9@Barnette> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The lovely Reader's Block begins a sort of trilogy with "This is Not a Novel" and the just released "Vanishing Point." Completely breath-taking novels made up of single strands--you never think they are going to be able to cohere. And then they don't. Or do. Whatever. --- Renee Ashley wrote: > Kevin, > I second Reader's Block. I just finished it > yesterday. I couldn't put it > down. I think it's a real writers' book. > Renee > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kevin Hehir" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 10:07 AM > Subject: Re: [POETICS] I.D'd > > > > for a catalogue of literary suicides I'd recommend > David Markson's 1996 > > novel Reader's Block. > > > > I'd recommend it anyway as it is fantastic! > > > > I actually read it at the same time as I read > Mathew's 20 Lines a Day > > while I was trying to finish my MPhil. > > > > Reader's Block is a great book! > > > > later, > > kevin > > > > -- > > --------------------------- > > http://paulmartintime.ca/ ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:14:31 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cyrill Duneau Subject: Caucasian work Comments: To: "burroughsnakedlunch@yahoogroups.com" , "COLLABORICIDE_HASHSHASHINS@yahoogroups.com" , "CYBERMIND@LISTSERV.AOL.COM" , "mayakovsky@yahoogroups.com" , Situationist , "williamsburroughs2@yahoogroups.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit When you kill enough of them, they'll stop fighting. And where is the FAQ section? The page you are looking for is currently unavailable, it happens, no worries. The Web site in Robopathic societus might be experiencing technical difficulties, or you may need to finish it yesterday adjusting yourself dowloading the videos anything special 173 dead. more than 500 injured in the knife technique epipelagic zone the sunlit path is Devotion an elegant, rustic feel with Spanish firmly based visual communications all civilians. about void before breath-taking (it's a conspiracy) and only seems in remission El pueblo matado jamás será vencido. And then they don't. "No reason given" human dust sparkling the air darkly and frozen rain in still motion. Less than nothing in fact. Urban. Vehicle as an adjunct to facial reconstruction A long time ago, but I can be depressed in 2 languages am supposed to be working fuck off and die (reading sorry if it's a Baudelaire Non-text portions in a coffeehaus) an often neglected social rule may be naive from saeculum an age] war & peace, homosexuality, and friendship garnished with raw vegetables, leaves of knot grass, parsley, lettuce, shredded daikon radish, and sometimes seaweed or cucumber. Uni is the sexual organs (gonads/ovaries) of the hermaphroditic sea urchin when too much cartilage is resected from the area Regular use of this alphabet in lower & upper case can rock your body from side- to-side to deal with unwanted seconds left to live... national homicide rates to infer the stability of social structures Spain - Ischemic heart disease: 73 - Cerebro-vascular disease: 81.9 - Cancer of lung, trachea, bronchus: 34.1 - Cancer of stomach: 14.1 - Cancer of female breast: 24.4 - Bronchitis, emphysema, asthma: 7.3 - Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis: 17.7 - Motor vehicle traffic accidents: 16 - Suicide and self- inflicted injury: 6.6 Thursday, March 11, 2004 considered a ‘tenebrist’ pornography in the eye of the beholder ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:26:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: call for animal poems / books for review Comments: cc: WOM-PO@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Msmshell@aol.com [mailto:Msmshell@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:53 AM To: cadaly@pacbell.net Subject: Re: Query RE: Book Review Catherine- I am currently the editor for a monthly animal publication...would be interested in animal poetry/work.... Michelle Buckalew Editor The Animal Times 901-751-2100 ofc www.animal-times.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:31:58 -0500 Reply-To: Millie Niss on eathlink Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss on eathlink Subject: Re: call for animal poems / books for review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do they want cute animal poetry or poetry like the people on poetics write? MN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Daly" To: Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 11:26 AM Subject: call for animal poems / books for review > -----Original Message----- > From: Msmshell@aol.com [mailto:Msmshell@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:53 AM > To: cadaly@pacbell.net > Subject: Re: Query RE: Book Review > > > Catherine- > I am currently the editor for a monthly animal publication...would be > interested in animal poetry/work.... > Michelle Buckalew > Editor > The Animal Times > 901-751-2100 ofc > www.animal-times.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:57:20 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harriet Zinnes Subject: Re: call for animal poems / books for review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Michelle Buckalew Would you be intested in the folowing animal poem that appears in my book of poems called MY, HAVEN'T THE FLOWERS BEEN? (1995)? A Bear's Thrust The night is dark, very dark and the wind is quiet ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:57:34 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: lisa robertson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi, I know that Lisa Robertson is reading at Brown, Suny Buffalo, St. John's, Corner Brook and Toronto later this month. Can any of the other organisors of her stops on this tour please contact me? There are ideas afoot. cheers, kevin -- --------------------------- http://paulmartintime.ca/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:47:19 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: three varieties of ad hominem: race, gender, and class MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > invalid. That is, the same mechanism, only with different validations. Not > sure that I think of that mechanism as ad hominen, though. -- Alison, could you explain why not? -- Kirby > > > Best > > A > > Alison Croggon > > Editor, Masthead > http://www.masthead.net.au > > Home page > http://www.alisoncroggon.com > > Blog > http://alisoncroggon.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:46:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Re: call for animal poems / books for review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Michelle Zinnes, Here is Butterfly which might be an insect poem BUTTERFLY Mother of space so much pressure placed on silence What do I believe? In other voices as they breathe Don't judge her grip she's just a bit neurotic, wings hitched to hesitation September 28,1997 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harriet Zinnes" To: Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 11:57 AM Subject: Re: call for animal poems / books for review > Dear Michelle Buckalew > > Would you be intested in the folowing animal poem that appears in my book of > poems called MY, HAVEN'T THE FLOWERS BEEN? (1995)? > > A Bear's Thrust > > The night is dark, very dark > and the wind is quiet > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:57:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: creative writing in Dublin, Ireland Notice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Creative Writing in Dublin, Ireland - Presented by: Florida International University's Creative Writing = Program July 12th - Aug 12th 2004 at Trinity College Dublin With poets Campbell McGrath, Denise Duhamel & Nick Carbo=20 Visit the website for detailed information and an application. www.2StudyAbroad.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:17:48 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Lutheran Surrealist Manifesto (for Rodrigo) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > "Lutheran Surrealism?" The Bauble meets the Babble? Do tell. > > Ok, Rodrigo -- you asked for it. I actually penned a manifesto last evening for you. This > is the first time anybody's asked. I begin with a Prolegomena to a Third (although I > haven't written second or first) because Lutheran surrealism is so backwards that Lutheran > surrealists actually can be spotted by their walking in reverse through the village in > spite of the tendency of this to perk our friends, the police. It's a crucial feature of > our sense of progress. Also, Breton's Prolegomena to his Third was written in Mexico, so > calling it the Third is a tribute to the context of my writing to you -- as I think you > mentioned a while back that you hail from the land of Octavio Paz (whose essays in part > inspire us). I appreciate your willingness to speak up for the superstructure business of > Marx and to support Jameson. I don't want to get into that, at least not in this post, due > to time and space, but would like to say that I found your letter intelligent and > well-ordered and thoughtful, so I have decided to respond as well as I can -- but remember > -- this prolegomena is dialectical. I sometimes say the opposite of what I mean in order > to stun myself into what I really do mean. -- KO. A Prolegomena to the Third Manifesto of Any Lutheran Surrealism Whatsoever Lutheran surrealism is today a mere phrase -- tomorrow it will be a way of life. How can this idiotic phrase leave the people of today quite cold, and yet tomorrow inspire millions towards a lunatic stability, a revolutionary passivity? Modernism believed in progress as Stalinists killed millions that were in the way of their bright ideas, and Hitlerians destroyed millions who didn't embody their Aryan ideal, and surrealists got mad at each other because they didn't smoke the same brand of cigarettes. With Lutheran surrealism we invoke a different tradition altogether -- that in which everyone is accepted, no one is truly looked up to, and we indulge in the scurrilous scribbling of poetry without any hope of bettering either ourselves or helping our neighbors. We do not believe in yesterday, today or tomorrow, while realizing that only a mental patient can believe in eternity. We believe in all reasonableness that the conception of the New Jerusalem (we never permit ourselves to joke about a Nude Jerusalem) offers the critical dimension -- one that is not of our making but which stands beside us in such a manner that we have almost as much hope of ever seeing it as we have of seeing our own ears without the aid of a mirror. Although we can never truly glimpse Lutheran surrealism we can see it in others -- like a doctor looking into an elderly gerbil's eyes we can see the sorrow of an eventual awakening in humanity -- an awakening like that of the gerbil who refuses any further to run upon her wheel, or to hope that with effort will come a new tomorrow. Lutheran surrealism denounces the Protestant work ethic as a fascinating fraud, and yet accepts that hard work is often less effort than lounging before a TV. We denounce the spirit of capitalism and yet accept that it's better to have too much money than none. We denounce books, the arts, and yet we indulge in them and hope to win many prizes. Lutheran surrealism is in fact not so much an invention as it is the discovery of a way of life that already exists or is in process of unfolding in the universal spirit. It is the discovery of a paradoxically cynical feeling that history is an error, and that time is a waste, but that inside of time is an indescribable essence felt by all living creatures -- from the ant's antennae tapping a crumb to the lobster waltzing sideways on the ocean floor-- that something ordinary hides a reality show so tragic and so comic, so obvious & yet so hidden -- that all of our efforts amount to nothing beside it. We recognize that we cannot hurry it and cannot seduce it, but that it is coming to awaken us into a new spirit as old as the first atom. Lutheran surrealism is thus not well understood. It requires better staffing. Presently the movement of a greying middle-aged man (even his family shows no interest!) it will nevertheless cow Marxists (it already has!) and open the hearts of disciples from the most unexpected quarters and become a world-wide phenomenon at least as important as sleeping. March 10, 2004 Kirby Olson Delhi, New York ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:20:03 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brenda Coultas Subject: Coultas & Lyons, this Sunday, Zinc Bar Readings, NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi y'all... you might want to fwd this, or some version of this so that people come to yr night at zinc... In 1980, the typical CEO made 30 times the average employee's salary. Now that same CEO makes 331 times the average worker. Someone doing your job in 1974 would have gotten 20% more money for it than you are in 2004 -- that means you have to work an extra two months a year to make the same wage.* In the face of systemic erosion, the Zinc Talk Reading Series has maintained the same high standard of cultural equity since its inception nearly ten years ago. Those who come Sunday nights might be a little tired halfway through their double shift on Monday, but they never regret it. That's because, in the economy of the spirit, thrift is ruinous. Please helps us march onward into springtime with these four events at Zinc Talk Reading Series March 7: Andrea Baker & Kevin Varrone March 14: Brenda Coultas & Kim Lyons March 21: Mark Salerno & Macgregor Card March 28: Jim Behrle & Jen Benka All Zinc-TRS events are on Sunday at 6:59pm at Zinc Bar 90 West Houston Street NYC $4 unless you have, through the current buddhist economic climate, a great emptiness in your wallet. Brendan Lorber don't mean to brag he don't mean to boast but he's got the strength of metal when he's yr zinc host If you would like to see photos of the zinc guests, bios & perhaps what they have in store for you, go to www.lungfull.org You can also get yourself some copies of Lungfull!magazine at www.lungfull.org Thank you to all those who made it to the Lungfull Lucky 13 Release Party despite the flu epidemic & track fires. The issue will be available at the Zinc-TRS along side some rather astounding ISSUE 13 t-shirts designed by McTee I'd very much enjoy glancing over at you knowingly at some key moment during each one of these events so I hope you are there to glance at. on the wing, Brendan Lorber *Source: US Dept of Labor, US Census ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:47:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Events at the Poetry Project 3/15-3/17 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable =B3You=B9ve aimed but can=B9t point there./ Half of the noise is caused by the floor=B9s existence, the other half by mine.=B2--Diane Ward Monday, March 15=20 CA Conrad & Latasha Diggs CA Conrad has three forthcoming books: Deviant Propulsion (Soft Skull Press), advancedELVIScourse (Buck Downs Books), and Frank (The Jargon Society). He co-edits Frequency Audio Journal with Magdalena Zurawski, and edits Banjo: Poets Talking, and 9for9. He can be found with fellow poets on The Philly Sound blog. Writer and vocalist Latasha N. Nevada Diggs=B9 literar= y and sound works have been featured and recorded in various publications and audio projects ranging from rock to house music. She is the author of two chapbooks, Ichi-Ban: from the files of negr=EDta mu=F1eca Linda and Ni-Ban: Villa Miser=EDa; as well she is the writer and producer of an experimental audio essay, =B3Televis=EDon.=B2 A fellow of the Cave Canem Workshop for African American Poets, she was the 2002 artist-in-residence at Harvestworks Digita= l Media Arts Center. She has received fellowships and scholarships in the field of poetry from both the New York Foundation for the Arts and Naropa University=B9s Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics. [8:00 pm] Wednesday, March 17 Laura Elrick & Barrett Watten Laura Elrick=B9s first collection of poetry, sKincerity, was published by Krupskaya in 2003. Her current interests include emotionality in 19th Century writers such as Charles Darwin and John Clare, as well as in 20th Century Presidential advisors such as Paul Wolfowitz. She is co-curator of the Segue reading series at the Bowery Poetry Club, and is currently workin= g on a book-length project tentatively titled Fantasies in Permeable Structures. She lives in the Greenpoint neighborhood of Brooklyn. Barrett Watten was born in Long Beach, California, in 1948 and spent his childhood in California, Japan, and Taiwan. After graduating from high school in Oakland, he attended MIT and then UC Berkeley, where he took an AB in the sciences in 1969 but also met poets Robert Grenier and Ron Silliman and studied with Josephine Miles. After earning an MFA from the Iowa Writers Workshop in 1972, he returned to the Bay Area and began to form relations with the group of experimental writers who would become known as the Language School. He was editor of This, one of the central little magazines of the movement, and co-edited Poetics Journal, one its theoretical venues. He is the author, most recently, of Progress/Under Erasure (Green Integer), which brings together in one volume two book-length poems, and Bad History (Atelos Press, 1998). His collection of shorter poems, Frame: 1971=AD1990, came out in 1997 from Sun & Moon Press. He is also one of four co-authors o= f Leningrad: American Poets in the Soviet Union (1992). He has published two volumes of literary and cultural criticism, The Constructivist Moment: From Material Text to Cultural Poetics (Wesleyan, 2003), and Total Syntax (Southern Illinois, 1985); an issue of Aerial is devoted to his work. He teaches in the Department of English at Wayne State University. [8:00 pm] * The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:41:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: terra1@SONIC.NET Subject: Court Orders Halt to SF Same-Sex Marriages In-Reply-To: <4f.3b6c86ab.2d8223f3@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://beta.kpix.com/news/local/2004/03/11/Court_Orders_Halt_to_SF_Same-Sex_Marriages.html Court Orders Halt to SF Same-Sex Marriages ) Associated Press (AP) - The California Supreme Court ordered an immediate halt to gay marriages in San Francisco and said Thursday it would hear a case in May or June on the legality of such marriages. The action by California's highest court came two weeks after state Attorney General Bill Lockyer and a conservative group asked the seven justices to immediately block the gay marriages, with more than 3,700 couples having wed at City Hall so far. The dispute began Feb. 12, when San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom ordered his administration to issue same-sex marriage licenses. A steady stream of gay and lesbians from two dozen states have traveled to be married at City Hall, just a block from where the Supreme Court sits. California's top court did not immediately address whether Newsom had the legal power to authorize the marriages, which contravenes a state law and voter referendum that say marriage is a union between a man and a woman. The justices also did not address whether the California Constitution would permit a gay marriage, as Newsom claims. Instead, the justices moved to block any more marriages, at least for now, until they decide whether Newsom had the power to authorize such unions. Had the court declined to intervene, the legal battle over gay marriage in California would have taken years as gay marriage lawsuits traveled through the state's lower courts. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:11:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: terra1@SONIC.NET Subject: Mass. legislators ok gay marriage amendment In-Reply-To: <2400.66.121.137.154.1079044865.squirrel@ssl.sonic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.newsday.com/ny-mass0311,0,3697842.story?coll=ny-top-span-headlines Mass. legislators ok gay marriage amendment The Associated Press March 11, 2004, 5:56 PM EST Boston -- Massachusetts lawmakers gave preliminary approval Thursday to a constitutional amendment that would ban gay marriage but allow civil unions. The amendment, which would strip gay couples of their court-granted marriage rights, must still weather several additional votes and anticipated legislative maneuvering by opponents. The earliest a ban could end up on a statewide ballot is November 2006, more than two years after same-sex couples can start getting married in Massachusetts ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:38:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Armstrong Subject: Wegway Contact Photography Show Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="= Multipart Boundary 0311041938" This is a multipart MIME message. --= Multipart Boundary 0311041938 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="= Multipart Boundary _EXTRA_0311041938" --= Multipart Boundary _EXTRA_0311041938 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Wegway – Primary Culture $10 would buy a one year Wegway subscription or $10 would buy a one year Wegway subscription and enter you in Wegway's First Annual International Juried Photography Exhibition Steam Whistle Gallery, May, 2004, as part of Toronto's Contact Photography Festival Wegway – Primary Culture P.O. Box 157, Station A, Toronto, Canada M5W 1B2 www.wegway.com Entering the exhibition includes a one year Wegway subscription, so one of these things is free. Wegway’s First Annual International Juried Photography Exhibition will take place at the Steam Whistle Gallery attached to the Steam Whistle Brewing Company in the old roundhouse in downtown Toronto. This event is officially part of the Contact 2004 Toronto Photography Festival www.contactphoto.com. The work exhibited may also be published in the Fall 2004 issue of Wegway magazine and each artist will be given space to publish a statement about themselves including contact information if they so wish. There will be three jurors selecting your work: Becky Singleton, a multi-media artist with work in the permanent collection of the Art Gallery of Ontario. Matt Wyatt, Director, Steam Whistle Gallery. Steve Armstrong, a visual artist and the Editor/Publisher of Wegway Magazine. Participation in this show has many benefits: 1 Contact is a major international photography festival. The Wegway show will be included in their catalogue. 2 Your work published in Wegway Magazine will be distributed across North America. 3 Acceptance by a respected jury is a valuable addition to your résumé – it will encourage other arts professionals to consider your work. 4 The staff at Steam Whistle will have time during the show to become familiar with your work, and thus have it in mind for future exhibition opportunities. 5 The opening reception will be an excellent time for networking in the art community. 6 Your work will also be posted on the Wegway website www.wegway.com including a cross-link to your website or an email contact if you wish. Steam Whistle will make every effort to sell your work, but you are free to decide whether it is for sale or not. There is no commission on sales. Wegway does not receive any monies from this show except the $10 application fee that helps us keep on publishing. And don't forget the free magazine subscription included when you apply. I hope you participate in this show and I look forward to meeting you at the opening reception. Steve Armstrong Editor / Publisher Wegway – Primary Culture Application form (also available in pdf format at www.wegway.com ) First Annual International Juried Photography Exhibition All applicants will receive a free one-year subscription to Wegway magazine. The winning applicants will: Be in the group show at the Steam Whistle Gallery in May 2004. Have their work published in Wegway Primary Culture Magazine. Have their work posted on the Wegway Website Receive a free two-year subscription to Wegway magazine. Be an official participant in the Contact Photography Festival. Be included in the Contact Festival Catalogue. Contact is a photography festival. Eligible work for this show includes photography both chemical and digital, photo based work and images created with light but not necessarily using cameras. Other processes may also fit the criteria. It is ultimately up to the applicant to decide whether his or her work might be eligible. Interested artists should send clearly labelled slides, photographs, photocopies, digital outputs or digital files such as GIF’s, TIF’s or JPG’s on a cd or floppy. Email submissions will also be considered – please contact s.armstrong@wegway.com for details. You may also include a c.v. no longer than 2 pages (optional) and/or a short artist statement (optional). Please include a self addressed stamped envelope for the return of materials. Lastly, enclose the application fee (a cheque or money order for $10 per submission payable to Wegway). There is no limit on the number of submissions – they are $10 each. Do not send original artwork. Deadline: Must be postmarked by Friday, April 30th, 2004 Mail To: Wegway, P.O. Box 157, Station A, Toronto, Ontario, Canada, M5W 1B2 If you are selected for the show and/or publication in Wegway magazine, you will be notified by May 10th 2004. The work selected for the show must be received Monday, May 17th, 2004. You will receive detailed shipping instructions with your notification. Artists are responsible for shipping and insurance during transit. The work must be suitably framed if applicable, and ready for hanging or installation. Application Form # Title Media Dimensions Date Fee Total 1 $10 2 $20 3 $30 4 $40 5 $50 6 $60 Name Address Phone (optional) Email (optional) More than 6 submissions are permissible. Please use a separate sheet of paper if necessary. Wegway, P. O. Box 157, Station A, Toronto, Ontario, Canada, M5W 1B2 http://www.wegway.com To be removed from this mailing list please reply with "remove" in the subject line. Thank you. --= Multipart Boundary _EXTRA_0311041938 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
 
Wegway – Primary Culture
$10 would buy a one year Wegway subscription or
$10 would buy a one year Wegway subscription and enter you in Wegway's
First Annual International Juried Photography Exhibition
Steam Whistle Gallery, May, 2004, as part of Toronto's Contact Photography Festival
 
Entering the exhibition includes a one year Wegway subscription,
so one of these things is free.
  
Wegway’s First Annual International Juried Photography Exhibition will take place at the Steam Whistle Gallery attached to the Steam Whistle Brewing Company in the old roundhouse in downtown Toronto. This event is officially part of the Contact 2004 Toronto Photography Festival www.contactphoto.com. The work exhibited may also be published in the Fall 2004 issue of Wegway magazine and each artist will be given space to publish a statement about themselves including contact information if they so wish.
 
There will be three jurors selecting your work:
 
Becky Singleton, a multi-media artist with work in the permanent collection of the Art Gallery of Ontario.
 
Matt Wyatt, Director, Steam Whistle Gallery.
 
Steve Armstrong, a visual artist and the Editor/Publisher of Wegway Magazine.
 
Participation in this show has many benefits:
 
1 Contact is a major international photography festival. The Wegway show will be included in their catalogue.
 
2 Your work published in Wegway Magazine will be distributed across North America.
 
3 Acceptance by a respected jury is a valuable addition to your résumé – it will encourage other arts professionals to consider your work.
 
4 The staff at Steam Whistle will have time during the show to become familiar with your work, and thus have it in mind for future exhibition opportunities.
 
5 The opening reception will be an excellent time for networking in the art community.
 
6 Your work will also be posted on the Wegway website www.wegway.com including a cross-link to your website or an email contact if you wish.
 
Steam Whistle will make every effort to sell your work, but you are free to decide whether it is for sale or not. There is no commission on sales. Wegway does not receive any monies from this show except the $10 application fee that helps us keep on publishing. And don't forget the free magazine subscription included when you apply. I hope you participate in this show and I look forward to meeting you at the opening reception.
 
Steve Armstrong
Editor / Publisher Wegway – Primary Culture
 
Application form (also available in pdf format at www.wegway.com )
First Annual International Juried Photography Exhibition
 
All applicants will receive a free one-year subscription to Wegway magazine.
 
The winning applicants will:
 
Be in the group show at the Steam Whistle Gallery in May 2004.
Have their work published in Wegway Primary Culture Magazine.
Have their work posted on the Wegway Website
Receive a free two-year subscription to Wegway magazine.
Be an official participant in the Contact Photography Festival.
Be included in the Contact Festival Catalogue.
 
Contact is a photography festival. Eligible work for this show includes photography both chemical and digital, photo based work and images created with light but not necessarily using cameras. Other processes may also fit the criteria. It is ultimately up to the applicant to decide whether his or her work might be eligible.
 
Interested artists should send clearly labelled slides, photographs, photocopies, digital outputs or digital files such as GIF’s, TIF’s or JPG’s on a cd or floppy. Email submissions will also be considered – please contact  s.armstrong@wegway.com for details. You may also include a c.v. no longer than 2 pages (optional) and/or a short artist statement (optional). Please include a self addressed stamped envelope for the return of materials. Lastly, enclose the application fee (a cheque or money order for $10 per submission payable to Wegway). There is no limit on the number of submissions – they are $10 each. Do not send original artwork.
 
Deadline: Must be postmarked by Friday, April 30th, 2004
Mail To: Wegway, P.O. Box 157, Station A, Toronto, Ontario, Canada, M5W 1B2
 
If you are selected for the show and/or publication in Wegway magazine, you will be notified by May 10th 2004. The work selected for the show must be received Monday, May 17th, 2004. You will receive detailed shipping instructions with your notification. Artists are responsible for shipping and insurance during transit. The work must be suitably framed if applicable, and ready for hanging or installation.
 
Application Form
 
                                 Title                                  Media                   Dimensions       Date              Fee Total
 
                                                                                                                                                         $10
 
                                                                                                                                                         $20
 
                                                                                                                                                         $30
 
                                                                                                                                                         $40
 
                                                                                                                                                         $50
 
                                                                                                                                                         $60
 
Name
Address
 
Phone (optional)
Email (optional)
 
More than 6 submissions are permissible. Please use a separate sheet of paper if necessary.

Wegway, P. O. Box 157, Station A, Toronto, Ontario, Canada, M5W 1B2
 
To be removed from this mailing list please reply with "remove" in the subject line. Thank you.
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Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="= Multipart Boundary 0311042007" This is a multipart MIME message. --= Multipart Boundary 0311042007 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="= Multipart Boundary _EXTRA_0311042007" --= Multipart Boundary _EXTRA_0311042007 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Wegway – Primary Culture $10 would buy a one year Wegway subscription or $10 would buy a one year Wegway subscription and enter you in Wegway's First Annual International Juried Photography Exhibition Steam Whistle Gallery, May, 2004, as part of Toronto's Contact Photography Festival Wegway – Primary Culture P.O. Box 157, Station A, Toronto, Canada M5W 1B2 www.wegway.com Entering the exhibition includes a one year Wegway subscription, so one of these things is free. Wegway’s First Annual International Juried Photography Exhibition will take place at the Steam Whistle Gallery attached to the Steam Whistle Brewing Company in the old roundhouse in downtown Toronto. This event is officially part of the Contact 2004 Toronto Photography Festival www.contactphoto.com. The work exhibited may also be published in the Fall 2004 issue of Wegway magazine and each artist will be given space to publish a statement about themselves including contact information if they so wish. There will be three jurors selecting your work: Becky Singleton, a multi-media artist with work in the permanent collection of the Art Gallery of Ontario. Matt Wyatt, Director, Steam Whistle Gallery. Steve Armstrong, a visual artist and the Editor/Publisher of Wegway Magazine. Participation in this show has many benefits: 1 Contact is a major international photography festival. The Wegway show will be included in their catalogue. 2 Your work published in Wegway Magazine will be distributed across North America. 3 Acceptance by a respected jury is a valuable addition to your résumé – it will encourage other arts professionals to consider your work. 4 The staff at Steam Whistle will have time during the show to become familiar with your work, and thus have it in mind for future exhibition opportunities. 5 The opening reception will be an excellent time for networking in the art community. 6 Your work will also be posted on the Wegway website www.wegway.com including a cross-link to your website or an email contact if you wish. Steam Whistle will make every effort to sell your work, but you are free to decide whether it is for sale or not. There is no commission on sales. Wegway does not receive any monies from this show except the $10 application fee that helps us keep on publishing. And don't forget the free magazine subscription included when you apply. I hope you participate in this show and I look forward to meeting you at the opening reception. Steve Armstrong Editor / Publisher Wegway – Primary Culture Application form (also available in pdf format at www.wegway.com ) First Annual International Juried Photography Exhibition All applicants will receive a free one-year subscription to Wegway magazine. The winning applicants will: Be in the group show at the Steam Whistle Gallery in May 2004. Have their work published in Wegway Primary Culture Magazine. Have their work posted on the Wegway Website Receive a free two-year subscription to Wegway magazine. Be an official participant in the Contact Photography Festival. Be included in the Contact Festival Catalogue. Contact is a photography festival. Eligible work for this show includes photography both chemical and digital, photo based work and images created with light but not necessarily using cameras. Other processes may also fit the criteria. It is ultimately up to the applicant to decide whether his or her work might be eligible. Interested artists should send clearly labelled slides, photographs, photocopies, digital outputs or digital files such as GIF’s, TIF’s or JPG’s on a cd or floppy. Email submissions will also be considered – please contact s.armstrong@wegway.com for details. You may also include a c.v. no longer than 2 pages (optional) and/or a short artist statement (optional). Please include a self addressed stamped envelope for the return of materials. Lastly, enclose the application fee (a cheque or money order for $10 per submission payable to Wegway). There is no limit on the number of submissions – they are $10 each. Do not send original artwork. Deadline: Must be postmarked by Friday, April 30th, 2004 Mail To: Wegway, P.O. Box 157, Station A, Toronto, Ontario, Canada, M5W 1B2 If you are selected for the show and/or publication in Wegway magazine, you will be notified by May 10th 2004. The work selected for the show must be received Monday, May 17th, 2004. You will receive detailed shipping instructions with your notification. Artists are responsible for shipping and insurance during transit. The work must be suitably framed if applicable, and ready for hanging or installation. Application Form # Title Media Dimensions Date Fee Total 1 $10 2 $20 3 $30 4 $40 5 $50 6 $60 Name Address Phone (optional) Email (optional) More than 6 submissions are permissible. Please use a separate sheet of paper if necessary. Wegway, P. O. Box 157, Station A, Toronto, Ontario, Canada, M5W 1B2 http://www.wegway.com To be removed from this mailing list please reply with "remove" in the subject line. Thank you. --= Multipart Boundary _EXTRA_0311042007 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
 
Wegway – Primary Culture
$10 would buy a one year Wegway subscription or
$10 would buy a one year Wegway subscription and enter you in Wegway's
First Annual International Juried Photography Exhibition
Steam Whistle Gallery, May, 2004, as part of Toronto's Contact Photography Festival
Wegway – Primary Culture P.O. Box 157, Station A, Toronto, Canada M5W 1B2 www.wegway.com
 
Entering the exhibition includes a one year Wegway subscription,
so one of these things is free.
  
Wegway’s First Annual International Juried Photography Exhibition will take place at the Steam Whistle Gallery attached to the Steam Whistle Brewing Company in the old roundhouse in downtown Toronto. This event is officially part of the Contact 2004 Toronto Photography Festival www.contactphoto.com. The work exhibited may also be published in the Fall 2004 issue of Wegway magazine and each artist will be given space to publish a statement about themselves including contact information if they so wish.
 
There will be three jurors selecting your work:
 
Becky Singleton, a multi-media artist with work in the permanent collection of the Art Gallery of Ontario.
 
Matt Wyatt, Director, Steam Whistle Gallery.
 
Steve Armstrong, a visual artist and the Editor/Publisher of Wegway Magazine.
 
Participation in this show has many benefits:
 
1 Contact is a major international photography festival. The Wegway show will be included in their catalogue.
 
2 Your work published in Wegway Magazine will be distributed across North America.
 
3 Acceptance by a respected jury is a valuable addition to your résumé – it will encourage other arts professionals to consider your work.
 
4 The staff at Steam Whistle will have time during the show to become familiar with your work, and thus have it in mind for future exhibition opportunities.
 
5 The opening reception will be an excellent time for networking in the art community.
 
6 Your work will also be posted on the Wegway website www.wegway.com including a cross-link to your website or an email contact if you wish.
 
Steam Whistle will make every effort to sell your work, but you are free to decide whether it is for sale or not. There is no commission on sales. Wegway does not receive any monies from this show except the $10 application fee that helps us keep on publishing. And don't forget the free magazine subscription included when you apply. I hope you participate in this show and I look forward to meeting you at the opening reception.
 
Steve Armstrong
Editor / Publisher Wegway – Primary Culture
 
Application form (also available in pdf format at www.wegway.com )
First Annual International Juried Photography Exhibition
 
All applicants will receive a free one-year subscription to Wegway magazine.
 
The winning applicants will:
 
Be in the group show at the Steam Whistle Gallery in May 2004.
Have their work published in Wegway Primary Culture Magazine.
Have their work posted on the Wegway Website
Receive a free two-year subscription to Wegway magazine.
Be an official participant in the Contact Photography Festival.
Be included in the Contact Festival Catalogue.
 
Contact is a photography festival. Eligible work for this show includes photography both chemical and digital, photo based work and images created with light but not necessarily using cameras. Other processes may also fit the criteria. It is ultimately up to the applicant to decide whether his or her work might be eligible.
 
Interested artists should send clearly labelled slides, photographs, photocopies, digital outputs or digital files such as GIF’s, TIF’s or JPG’s on a cd or floppy. Email submissions will also be considered – please contact  s.armstrong@wegway.com for details. You may also include a c.v. no longer than 2 pages (optional) and/or a short artist statement (optional). Please include a self addressed stamped envelope for the return of materials. Lastly, enclose the application fee (a cheque or money order for $10 per submission payable to Wegway). There is no limit on the number of submissions – they are $10 each. Do not send original artwork.
 
Deadline: Must be postmarked by Friday, April 30th, 2004
Mail To: Wegway, P.O. Box 157, Station A, Toronto, Ontario, Canada, M5W 1B2
 
If you are selected for the show and/or publication in Wegway magazine, you will be notified by May 10th 2004. The work selected for the show must be received Monday, May 17th, 2004. You will receive detailed shipping instructions with your notification. Artists are responsible for shipping and insurance during transit. The work must be suitably framed if applicable, and ready for hanging or installation.
 
Application Form
 
                                 Title                                  Media                   Dimensions       Date              Fee Total
 
                                                                                                                                                         $10
 
                                                                                                                                                         $20
 
                                                                                                                                                         $30
 
                                                                                                                                                         $40
 
                                                                                                                                                         $50
 
                                                                                                                                                         $60
 
Name
Address
 
Phone (optional)
Email (optional)
 
More than 6 submissions are permissible. Please use a separate sheet of paper if necessary.

Wegway, P. O. Box 157, Station A, Toronto, Ontario, Canada, M5W 1B2
 
To be removed from this mailing list please reply with "remove" in the subject line. Thank you.
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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Has anyone on the list attempted suicide? I'd like to know from them personally if they succeeded. All this Talk of Suicide Makes a Man Hungry. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: ela kotkowska Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 02:31:17 -0600 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd > oui, merci, tout à fait. > on a beau à se mirer si tous les paris nient l'avion! > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Pierre Joris > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:12 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd > > On Mar 10, 2004, at 5:33 PM, ela kotkowska wrote: > > > &, let's not forget Paul Celan, who jumped of Le Pont d'Avignon -- as > > if jumping off a poem .. > > oops -- he did jump off a poem but it was "Le Pont Mirabeau" in Paris, not > le"Pont d'Avignon", which is a children's song. > > Pierre > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan > ___________________________________________________________ > Pierre Joris > 6 Madison Place > Albany NY 12202 > h: 518 426 0433 > c: 518 225 7123 > o: 518 442 40 85 > email: joris@albany.edu > http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ > ____________________________________________________________ -- _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:29:39 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: query Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed While chatting (in English) with a Cuban friend I used the phrase "no flies on me." A blank stare. My friend is very fluent in US English, butr had never heard the phrase before. In Spanish it would be something like "estoy sin moscas" or "sobre yo no tienen moscas," which would convey very little. I was wondering if anyone knew the origin. It sounds to me to be black english, maybe from a play or film. I await enlightenment, and a lot of horsing around (oops, those flies again). Mark ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:44:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd In-Reply-To: <200403102233.i2AMXw1T028190@merle.it.northwestern.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >&, let's not forget Paul Celan, who jumped of Le Pont d'Avignon -- as if >jumping off a poem ... Didnt Virginia Woolf fill her pockets with stones or John Ciardi poems and walk into the river? -- George Bowering Favors Truman over Dewey. 303 Fielden Ave. Port Colborne. ON, L3K 4T5 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:49:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: I.D'd In-Reply-To: <00b101c4077a$ebac7910$da66fea9@Barnette> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Kevin, >I second Reader's Block. I just finished it yesterday. I couldn't put it >down. I think it's a real writers' book. >Renee The sequel, This is Not a Novel, is just as good. gb -- George Bowering Favors Truman over Dewey. 303 Fielden Ave. Port Colborne. ON, L3K 4T5 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:47:55 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" Subject: Re: query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Mark, the expression was colloquial commonplace in New Zealand in the 1950s, but I almost never hear it nnpw. Wystan -----Original Message----- From: Mark Weiss [mailto:junction@EARTHLINK.NET] Sent: Friday, 12 March 2004 2:30 p.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: query While chatting (in English) with a Cuban friend I used the phrase "no flies on me." A blank stare. My friend is very fluent in US English, butr had never heard the phrase before. In Spanish it would be something like "estoy sin moscas" or "sobre yo no tienen moscas," which would convey very little. I was wondering if anyone knew the origin. It sounds to me to be black english, maybe from a play or film. I await enlightenment, and a lot of horsing around (oops, those flies again). Mark ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:56:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: query Comments: To: junction@EARTHLINK.NET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Dear Mark, The phrase is very common in Ireland. I'm pretty sure it is a transliterat= ion of the Irish "Phlaghas," meaning a tax imposed on illiterate parents = of Irish children attending school under the Penal Code (illiterate = parents were obliged to pay the Phlaghas, thus discouraging educational = advancement among the poor, particularly in rural areas). People would = say: "Nil phlaghas ar bith orm," meaning "There's no fear of me having to = pay the Phlaghas," the implication being that one was literate. "Flies" = is an Anglization of "Phlaghas" (the two words sound exactly the same = despite the difference in spelling. I guess the saying came to mean: "I'm = no fool" in the 20th century. Mairead www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com >>> junction@EARTHLINK.NET 03/11/04 20:28 PM >>> While chatting (in English) with a Cuban friend I used the phrase "no = flies on me." A blank stare. My friend is very fluent in US English, butr had never heard the phrase before. In Spanish it would be something like = "estoy sin moscas" or "sobre yo no tienen moscas," which would convey very = little. I was wondering if anyone knew the origin. It sounds to me to be black english, maybe from a play or film. I await enlightenment, and a lot of horsing around (oops, those flies = again). Mark ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:11:12 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Bechtel Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was a member of the Heaven's Gate cult in a former life. Now really, a mass suicide by all members of poetics could make interesting news. Who's the Jim Jones of the group? -Brent ----- Original Message ----- From: "furniture_ press" To: Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 7:11 PM Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd Has anyone on the list attempted suicide? I'd like to know from them personally if they succeeded. All this Talk of Suicide Makes a Man Hungry. Chris ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:17:48 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: query In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i don't know if this was vaudeville, mistrel-show stuff or something real, but from when i was a kid i seem to recall hearing a line like: "ain't no flies on jesus." At 2:47 PM +1300 3/12/04, Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG) wrote: >Mark, the expression was colloquial commonplace in New Zealand in the >1950s, but I almost never hear it nnpw. > Wystan > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark Weiss [mailto:junction@EARTHLINK.NET] >Sent: Friday, 12 March 2004 2:30 p.m. >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: query > > >While chatting (in English) with a Cuban friend I used the phrase "no flies >on me." A blank stare. My friend is very fluent in US English, butr had >never heard the phrase before. In Spanish it would be something like "estoy >sin moscas" or "sobre yo no tienen moscas," which would convey very little. > >I was wondering if anyone knew the origin. It sounds to me to be black >english, maybe from a play or film. > >I await enlightenment, and a lot of horsing around (oops, those flies >again). > >Mark -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:28:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek White Organization: Calamari Press Subject: "O, Vozque Pulp" -- New Publication by Calamari Press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings all I just wanted to announce a new publication "O, Vozque Pulp" which = contains fantastic ink drawings by Carlos M. Luis and my textual = interpretations. You can view some samples at = http://www.calamaripress.com/ovozquepulp.htm.=20 Other recent publications of interest include "Spiritual Turkey Beggar = Baste Mechanism/Trapezoidal Juggernaut," = http://www.calamaripress.com/spirit_turkey_beg_baste_mech_Trap_jug.htm a = dueling playbill chapbook that you can flip over and read in the other = direction by me and Sandy Baldwin, and also SleepingFish magazine = (www.sleepingfish.net) if you haven't checked it out already.=20 All are available for sale at http://www.calamaripress.com/... please = spread the word! Sorry to grovel, but I just got laid off from my day = job last week, so would appreciate any support I can get.... being laid = off also means I can read the poetics list more often now! Thanks and regards, Derek White white@sleepingfish.net =20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:42:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: query In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20040311172512.029f8a40@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit { While chatting (in English) with a Cuban friend I used the phrase "no flies { on me." A blank stare. My friend is very fluent in US English, butr had { never heard the phrase before. In Spanish it would be something like "estoy { sin moscas" or "sobre yo no tienen moscas," which would convey very little. { { I was wondering if anyone knew the origin. It sounds to me to be black { english, maybe from a play or film. { { I await enlightenment, and a lot of horsing around (oops, those flies again). Well, the expression is in Brewer's, though it doesn't "sound black" there: There are no flies on him. --He's very shrewd and wide awake; he won't be caught napping. No source indicated. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard The Sonnet Project: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/The%20Sonnet%20Project.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:06:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: query In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20040311172512.029f8a40@mail.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Mark, go to Google - it's a quick, endless, boring search, but it's in a lyric - like in the summer time where you rub honey and vinegar into your skin, and wow, unlike all those other folks at the picnic, "no flies on me." Another way of saying "I'm clean" whether I did it - some petty crime (a successful spit ball) - or not. on 3/11/04 5:29 PM, Mark Weiss at junction@EARTHLINK.NET wrote: > "no flies > on me." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:26:56 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Baseball poem In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit so here you go a baseball poem from the Southside of Chicago 35th and Shields picturesque ecstasies of religious faith; bitterest misfortunes; hounds hunt a disease oa accidents, for the prevailing rate of wages, a man hunt for a lousy foreighner led by righteous protestant blondes. Slice off my skin with an infected butcher knife blood poisoned; beaten to death, tracked by bloodhounds torn to pieces, open sewers, crack of the bat my mushy stomach black is better weakened by starvation, cold and exposure, sickness accident-gnaw out your heart bodies and soul wife an babies all is efficient suburban breeding opens doors to creation, the new master race I hate blue Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetrycalendar.blogspot.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of David A. Kirschenbaum > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:44 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: ** Baseball poems needed ASAP ** > > > Hi all, > > more baseball poems needed, so please email them this way asap (no later > than this coming monday, march 15, by 12 noon nyc time). > > thanks, > david > > -- > David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher > Boog City > 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H > NY, NY 10001-4754 > For event and publication information: > http://boogcity.blog-city.com/ > T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) > F: (212) 842-2429 > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:31:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Poems by others: Harold Norse, "Death of Poets" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Death of Poets shotguns blades or an o.d. of some narcotic or typhus in a concentration camp on the prison floor t.b. or rope in a hotel room flowering its macabre loop or brainburst of alcohol have carried them away apollinaire jacob hernandez trakl lorca thomas pavese vaché thinking of the beach buggy on fire island that ran down frank o'hara freak fey death in sunlit sand or labor camp nausea or is this death coming on scottellaro no more manifestoes blok denied exit visa vallejo slain by exile rilke killed by a rose desnos in buchenwald 'The Night of Loveless Nights' is long without nightingales or cuckoo clocks last words at world's end --Harold Norse in Penguin Modern Poets 13, 1969 Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard The Sonnet Project: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/The%20Sonnet%20Project.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:38:21 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harriet Zinnes Subject: Re: Poems by others: Harold Norse, "Death of Poets" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh, Hal, that is a strong, sad poem, isn't it. Oh oh oh .... Very best Harriet ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:50:14 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Preaching Mass Suicide Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 All on the List: This chain of events pending, I believe this is no joke: Take it outside and have a smoke, You're life will be shortly ending. I wish I was Tennyson. That's all that matters now: it's a bitch to be Keats (and how!) Yr gonna be marinated like venison. Be wary, Mary. Hold fast, Clive. A mass suicide is pending, It's not like I'm through sending you a loaded Mexican beehive. Send me $50 American or be wiped away by Bloomy Cropsy's Comet. This is no joke. Send me money and be depleted, repented. Bone Sillius -- _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:09:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Renee Ashley Subject: Re: I.D'd MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George (and Kevin and All) I got a copy today! I'd heard of it but hadn't known it was a sequel. Now as soon as I finish student evaluations... Renee > > The sequel, This is Not a Novel, is just as good. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:33:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: AMERIKaHAS- FAILED In-Reply-To: <00a301c407e7$c76325a0$da66fea9@Barnette> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://transdada.blogspot.com/ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AMERIKa HAS- FAILED!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 01:22:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: new images @ http://www.asondheim.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII new images @ http://www.asondheim.org further explorations into 4-space projection into 3-space calculon software on zaurus 5500 linux pda some cases of equivalent and orthogonal 2-space curves with intermediary values i am having a hard time imagining this the equations are easier driving through the space with the equations is the easiest of all nl is the most recent text file 4d50.png 4d61.png 4d72.png 4d51.png 4d62.png 4d73.png 4d52.png 4d63.png nl 4d53.png 4d64.png 4d54.png 4d65.png 4d55.png 4d66.png 4d56.png 4d67.png 4d57.png 4d68.png 4d58.png 4d69.png 4d59.png 4d70.png 4d60.png 4d71.png _ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:53:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: query In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Furthest I could trace it was to the following: 'Most all the time the whole year round, there ain't no flies on me, Eugene Field, "Jest 'Fore Christmas" (published 1904, but pre-1895, when he died) which sounds like the phrase predates the poem. It's been used in a lot of songs since then. Mark At 07:06 PM 3/11/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Mark, go to Google - it's a quick, endless, boring search, but it's in a >lyric - like in the summer time where you rub honey and vinegar into your >skin, and wow, unlike all those other folks at the picnic, "no flies on me." > >Another way of saying "I'm clean" whether I did it - some petty crime (a >successful spit ball) - or not. > > > > > > > >on 3/11/04 5:29 PM, Mark Weiss at junction@EARTHLINK.NET wrote: > > > "no flies > > on me." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 03:58:52 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mairead, This is a beautiful explanation, is that really so? I am wondering how=20 Lutheran Surrealism fit into that? You have to pay taxes if your parents are= =20 illiterate. Completely off the topic, I saw three movies recently: "Lord of the Ring,"=20 "The Battle of Algiers" and "The Fog of War" (the last a few hours ago); all= =20 three are basically about war. There was quite an extensive discussion of the first movie on this list,=20 focusing essentially on its being racist, if I remember. I do not quite see=20= it,=20 though the villains look like lepers, when the movie is not ripping off "Sta= r=20 Wars." Watching the Oscars I learnt most of the creators of the movie, the=20 director, the music composer and the special effect people, etc. were all fr= om New=20 Zealand (that was the running -although feeble- joke during the ceremonies),= =20 in addition to the movie being supposedly shot there. Considering that the=20 Maoris constitute a significant part of the New Zealand population, their to= tal=20 visual absence in the movie -even if only as location shot details- is amazi= ng.=20 More than racism, the cause seems to me economic. It shows how modern big=20 money financing drains almost everything of local color. The movie has an ee= rie=20 unreality to it partly because even the open air long shots are not location= =20 shots. New Zealand is a place of cheap labor. The directors are cheaper, the= =20 musicians are cheaper, the cleaners of toilets are cheaper -in a "big" proje= ct=20 like this this is essential. More than anything, "The Ring" reminds me of Masterpiece Theater, the genre=20 in which the English class system (upstairs and downstairs) is confused with= =20 culture. The highest virtue in the world of "The Ring" is loyalty and devoti= on=20 to one's master. The most loyal hobbitt (hobbitts always recognizable by the= ir=20 big feet, as opposed to the lords with normal feet) ends up in a place like=20 Switzerland (not New Zealand) at the end of the movie. More about the nausea= ting=20 last ten minutes of the movie a bit later. The biggest way the hobbitt expresses his loyalty is by resisting, refusing=20 to take the ring, embodying power and ambition, from his master's neck.=20 Considering the deep increasing economic divisions developingin our country,= that's a=20 convenient ethos to push forward. "The Ring" ends in an artificial, overgreen set of Swirzerland where our goo= d=20 hobbitt marries the buxom, curly haired milkmaid (undoubtedly with big feet)= ,=20 has children and they live in a miniature wooden, bright colored chalet. Eve= n=20 "realistic" pictures of Swiss countryside are utopian cliches. Why does the=20 movie creates a set in flaming, aggressively "artificial" colors? I think=20 because unreality is of the essence of this movie. The New Zealand visually=20= may be=20 considered the Switserland of the Far East. But that kind of identitificatio= n=20 is not what the film is looking for. People discuseed the parallels between The Seconf World War and the war=20 scenes in the movie. I did not see it that at all> Most battle scenes were w= eak=20 imitations of earlier movies. One scene had escaped for me these limitations and had a touching=20 authenticity, the Charge of the Light Brigade, when the demented king of the= sends his=20 loyal but unloved son to fate the Huns on horseback. That did happen in the=20 Crimean War in 19th century. It id 4:A.M. I need to talk about the other two movies later. Ciao Murat=20 =20 =20 In a message dated 3/11/04 8:59:46 PM, mbyrne@RISD.EDU writes: > Dear Mark, > The phrase is very common in Ireland.=A0 I'm pretty sure it is a=20 > transliteration of the Irish "Phlaghas," meaning a tax imposed on illitera= te parents of=20 > Irish children attending school under the Penal Code (illiterate parents w= ere=20 > obliged to pay the Phlaghas, thus discouraging educational advancement amo= ng=20 > the poor, particularly in rural areas).=A0 People would say: "Nil phlaghas= ar=20 > bith orm," meaning "There's no fear of me having to pay the Phlaghas," the= =20 > implication being that one was literate.=A0 "Flies" is an Anglization of "= Phlaghas"=20 > (the two words sound exactly the same despite the difference in spelling.= =A0 I=20 > guess the saying came to mean: "I'm no fool" in the 20th century. > Mairead >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:33:01 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Cid Corman Has Passed On Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Just got word from Shizumi that Cid passed on at about 6 o'clock this evening, March 12th, Japan time. Cid had been on complete life support since his by-pass operation and had lingered on in a semi-conscious state. Now he's at one with his words and his long goodbye is over. Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 04:20:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: this is a civil rights issue. In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://transdada.blogspot.com/ this is a civil rights issue. I have watched in horror as state-after-state has voted to add constitutional amendments take rights away from queers. I have read and heard hate speech coming from the president to local officials, cloaked in religious dogma, justifying their acts of discrimination and hate. I have heard the great compromise in Massachusetts of creating a two tiered system. know this; NO MATTER WHAT - SEPARATE BUT EQUAL IS NOT EQUAL... this is a civil rights issue. and if these actions where based on the color of one's skin, country of origin, or one's spiritual practice, there would be outrage, but I have not seen outrage. what I have witness is inaction and a continuation of day-to-day commerce, life going on. I have seen and acted, as these crooked deeds of this president turn into a list too long and heinous to even begin to imagine; acts that has cost many life's, wiped away liberties, and steadily taking steps that will destroy the earth we live on. I have seen this imperialist patriarchal regime kidnapped world leaders, lie to the world, imprison individuals without trial, cut back on HIV treatment (big time here in San Francisco - a coincidence?), put forth ideas like gender segregation, and reduced education to a joke based on testing - and still it seems as if we go about our days, buying goods and exchanging pleasantries when I hear this unelected dictator speak words like: "we can be confident in the ways of Providence. ..., there's a dedication and purpose, set by the hand of a just and faithful God." -"The course of this conflict is not known, yet its outcome is certain. Freedom and fear, justice and cruelty have always been at war, and we know that God is not neutral between them." The union of a man and woman is the most enduring human institution." and ``You're doing God's work with conviction and kindness,'' and when I see this fake president allowing religious charities a greater hand in delivering social services, all the while cutting back existing support systems and I hear a president speak on limiting the power of activist judges that interpret the law, and legislate from the bench; judges that put bush in office, the kind of judges that stopped the ban of interracial marriage, judges that struck down the sodomy laws, and judges that acted on Roe vs. Wade when I see overt discrimination bills being passed, hate speech bandied about and hate crimes on the rise; and when I see life go on, lost in the security of the job, abandoned humanity to the time clock, and everyone just existing in a system that puts forth dogma and promotes; greed, discrimination and hate... I can no longer stand by, as my brothers and sisters, are murdered, lose there jobs, and are placed in a separate but equal system. it is time to stop business as normal - shut it down. every act must be a revolutionary act, every act must be an act of resistances to this regime. we must be bold in the face of a police state and fear of discrimination and loss of employment. we must be nomadic, and step forth before it's to late... we need to stand up and chant the chant I heard last night at the state building, listening to a sweet gay couple who was denied the right to get married... WE'RE QUEER - WE'RE HERE - WE'RE MARRIED - GET OVER IT!! ACT NOW.. every act counts-.. support lambda legal defense fight in almost every state to defend queers that are being discriminated against.. take a stand today... live life as a revolution!!! it's time amerika to wake-up. http://transdada.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:52:03 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Cid Corman Has Passed On In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Thanks Jesse. This is indeed sad; does Shizumi have any means of supporting herself? As i recall, the list periodically issued financial SOSes on their behalf. I saw Cid at Naropa in ... 1995? He read us some amazing Viet Nam War poetry/prose by an unknown person --US man --and had such passion for discovering new work and hooking people up with each other. He even saw his ice cream store in that vein --a place people could come in and meet. Very touching. At 10:33 AM +0000 3/12/04, Jesse Glass wrote: >Just got word from Shizumi that Cid passed on at about 6 o'clock this >evening, March 12th, Japan time. Cid had been on complete life support >since his by-pass operation and had lingered on in a semi-conscious state. >Now he's at one with his words and his long goodbye is over. Jesse -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:48:39 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlotte Mandel Subject: Words by Cid Corman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MOURNING most what is was The loss weighs and holds at O No one to hear (windless) trees Leaves left--is that what stays Words-- this breath-- you--no-- I? from Livingdying: poems of Cid Corman (New Directions 1970) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:52:14 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: The Banff Centre announces Writing & Publishing 2004/05 programs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Writing & Publishing 2004 - 2005 Creative Non-Fiction and Cultural Journalism Program Rosemary Sullivan, Maclean Hunter Chair April 26 to June 18, 2004 (off-site manuscript development) July 12 to August 7, 2004 (on-site residency) Application deadline: March 26, 2004 The Creative Non-Fiction and Cultural Journalism program was established in response to an endowment from the government of Alberta and Maclean Hunter Limited. The program offers eight established non-fiction writers an opportunity to develop a major essay, memoir, or feature piece. A month-long residency enables writers to work on their manuscript during individual consultations with faculty and during round-table discussions. Participants are able to advance their professional development through work with the program chair; experienced and exacting faculty editors; and through interaction with each other, invited guest speakers, and with artists from other fields. Wired Writing Studio 2004-05 Fred Stenson, director October 4 to 16, 2004 (2-week on-site residency in Banff) November 1, 2004 to April 3, 2005 (20-week online residency) Application deadline: June 18, 2004 Faculty Fred Stenson (director) Caroline Adderson (fiction and other narrative prose) David Bergen (fiction and other narrative prose) Zsuzsi Gartner (fiction and other narrative prose) Robert Hilles (poetry) Sue Wheeler (poetry) The Wired Writing Studio is a six-month program offering a unique context for poets and fiction and other narrative prose writers to pursue their own artistic visions and voices. Intended specifically for those producing work of literary merit who are at an early stage in their careers, it offers an extended period of writing time (two weeks in Banff and twenty weeks on-line), one-on-one editorial assistance from experienced writers/editors, and an opportunity for involvement with a community of working writers. Writing With Style 2004 Edna Alford, director Writing With Style (Fall) September 20 to 25, 2004 Application deadline: May 7, 2004 Faculty Sandra Birdsell, Short Fiction Tim Lilburn, Poetry Marni Jackson, Memoir/Life Writing Jake MacDonald, Young Adult Fiction Writing With Style is a six-day workshop for writers of all levels. In the idyllic mountain setting of The Banff Centre, writers are given the opportunity to edit and shape a manuscript or work-in-progress under the guidance of an experienced editor. The diverse writing community encourages the development of new ideas and allows writers to gain confidence in their own style and voice. Each program offers morning group sessions led by a faculty member, which gives participants the opportunity to have their work read and discussed by the other participants. The afternoons are left free for writing and one-on-one meetings with faculty. Participants may attend and participate in evening readings with faculty and fellow writers. Self-directed Writing Residencies Application deadline: writers may apply at any time Notification date: processing and adjudication time is generally four to six weeks Self-directed writing residencies provide time, space, and facilities for individual research, editing, and manuscript development. There are no formal activities organized around a self-directed writing residency; writers structure their own time, and are free to maintain privacy or to engage with other artists and activities at The Banff Centre. Banff International Literary Translation Centre Linda Gaboriau, director 2004 Residency Program June 14 to July 3, 2004 Application deadline: Completed 2005 Residency Program June 13 to July 2, 2005 Application deadline: December 15, 2004 The Banff International Literary Translation Centre (BILTC) is the only one of its kind in North America. It offers literary translators an opportunity for a three-week residency where they can focus on their manuscript, spend time with the writer whose work they are translating, or consult with their colleagues and two experienced translators-in-residence. It is open to literary translators from Canada, Mexico, and the United States translating from any language, and to international translators working on literature from the Americas. Writing Studio 2005 May 9 to June 4, 2005 Greg Hollingshead, director Faculty Greg Hollingshead, Edna Alford, Don McKay, Marilyn Bowering, Stan Dragland, David Bergen, Jack Hodgins, Terry Griggs, Daphne Marlatt, Colin Bernhardt The Writing Studio is a five-week program offering a unique context for poets and fiction and other narrative prose writers to pursue their own artistic visions and voices. Intended specifically for those producing work of literary merit who are at an early stage in their careers, it offers an extended period of uninterrupted writing time, one-on-one editorial assistance from experienced writers/editors, and an opportunity for involvement with a community of working writers. For more information: Visit www.banffcentre.ca Email mailto:arts_info@banffcentre.ca Call 1.800.565.9989 or 403.762.6180 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:52:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Words by Cid Corman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Funny/sad, last night before bed I was reading: Shall we die? Isn't that the tune to which Fred and Ginger are even yet cavorting? Cid Corman, the despairs, (Cedar Hill Publications , 2001) -- jerry schwartz ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:55:09 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Deborah Reich Subject: Re: Words by Cid Corman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A beautiful piece, Charlotte. I never read any of his work, but will look it up now. Deb ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:51:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: Berkeley, CA Reading w/ Eric Baus & Trevor Calvert Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Eric Baus & Trevor Calvert March 17, 8 p.m. Pegasus Books 2349 Shattuck Avenue Berkeley, CA 94704 For more info call: 510.649.1320 _________________________________________________________________ Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at Tech Hacks & Scams. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/techsafety.armx ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:47:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Words by Cid Corman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Deb: When I die, can I count on you to read my work? I only met Cid Corman once, in Kyoto, 1968. The Olympics was on the tea house's TV, and he was more interested in watching than talking to another visiting American poet. The man had good taste. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deborah Reich" To: Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 6:55 AM Subject: Re: Words by Cid Corman > A beautiful piece, Charlotte. I never read any of his work, but will look it > up now. > Deb ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:29:41 -0500 Reply-To: star@poeticinhalation.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Star Smith Organization: poetic inhalation Subject: 2004 Small Press Book Fair/Literary Publishing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The 16th annual Small Press Book Fair will be held Saturday, March 27th from 10am to 6pm and Sunday, March 28th from 11am to 5pm at the Small Press Center at 20 West 44th Street in Manhattan. This year there will be a special focus on literary publishing. The Book Fair is one of the main events held during Small Press Month, and provides hundreds of independent publishers with an eclectic forum to display and sell their books and magazines. Admission to the Book Fair and all special events is FREE and open to the public. Web info: http://smallpress.org/events/bookfair/default.asp Email:info@smallpress.org Call:212-764-7021 *** star smith :-) http://www.poeticinhalation.com home of the creative alliance http://www.poeticinhalation.com/creativealliance.html member of the independent press association http://www.indypress.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:02:56 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Query - flies Comments: To: Mark Weiss Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Mairead is right to the Celtic - the phrase in this country has early white trash - read "indentured" - origins. Way of saying, "They can't call me trash on this one" (when the owners come around accusin' things.) Course the phrase - say post W War II - gets gentrified - "new country" - as a financial marker. Somewhere, down inside - I speculate all great poets are variously covered with flies. That sleezy feeling that provokes and kicks out great poems. Stephen V ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:40:36 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Query - flies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In a novel by Charles Willeford titled The Burnt Orange Heresy, there are a lot of discussions of painting because the lead hero is a corrupt art critic. On pp. 67-69 there is a fascinating discussion of the symbolism of flies in medieval painting -- "In medieval painting, and well into the Renaissance, a fly was painted on Jesus Christ's crucified body: the fly on Jesus' body was a symbol of redemption, because a fly represented sin and Jesus was without sin. A fly painted on the person of a layman, however, signified sin without redemption, or translated into "This person is going to Hell!" Ray Vint painted a trompe l'oeil fly on every portrait" (69-70). The art history department of most good universities would have a specialist in this area that could probably flesh this symbol out? Mark, you had a query a few months back about "Oh, man," and "Oh, boy," and the differences, and I just wanted to put in that in Finnish, for whatever reason (maybe Anselm could explain this), the people say in very similar circumstances, "Voi, nena!" (There are umlauts over the a.) It means, "Oh, nose!" -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:44:59 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Walker Subject: Re: Query - flies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 'Most all the time the whole year round, there ain't no flies on me, Eugene Field, "Jest 'Fore Christmas" (published 1904, but pre-1895, when he died) which sounds like the phrase predates the poem. It's been used in a lot of songs since then. It does indeed. The earliest entry in the OED (1848) is from Australia: [H. W. Haygarth Recoll. Bush Life Austral. ix. 101] **'It's lucky we got them,' said Amos; 'there were "no flies" about that black bull. ' Note. This expression is very common in Australia...** The OED suggests the origin is US or Australian and glosses its entry thus: 'The earliest examples indicate that the phrase was prob. orig. applied to cattle that are so active that flies do not settle on them.' But I like Mairéad's supposition. CW __________________________________________ Er monno é una trippetta, e l'omo é un gatto Che je tocca aspettà la su' porzione (The world is a load of tripe, and man is a cat Who must await his share) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:21:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Query - flies In-Reply-To: <00c901c40862$20af67c0$0300a8c0@Schloss> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tho I suspect that Mair=E9ad's example is only current in County Blarney. Mark At 06:44 PM 3/12/2004 +0000, you wrote: > >'Most all the time the whole year round, there ain't no flies on me, >Eugene Field, "Jest 'Fore Christmas" (published 1904, but pre-1895, when he >died) > >which sounds like the phrase predates the poem. It's been used in a lot of >songs since then. > > >It does indeed. The earliest entry in the OED (1848) is from Australia: > >[H. W. Haygarth Recoll. Bush Life Austral. ix. 101] **'It's lucky we got >them,' said Amos; 'there were "no flies" about that black bull. ' Note.= This >expression is very common in Australia...** > >The OED suggests the origin is US or Australian and glosses its entry thus: >'The earliest examples indicate that the phrase was prob. orig. applied to >cattle that are so active that flies do not settle on them.' > >But I like Mair=E9ad's supposition. > >CW >__________________________________________ > >Er monno =E9 una trippetta, e l'omo =E9 un gatto >Che je tocca aspett=E0 la su' porzione >(The world is a load of tripe, and man is a cat >Who must await his share) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:23:56 -0500 Reply-To: BigSmallPressMall Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: BigSmallPressMall From: Poetics List Administration Organization: BigSmallPressMall Subject: BigSmallPressMall/Drag City Party in Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline BigSmallPressMall and Drag City Records present a night of readings and bands in Chicago (to coincide with the 2004 Associated Writing Programs conference) Aquacade I Readings by: DAVID BERMAN (Drag City/Open City) HARMONY KORINE BILL CALLAHAN (of the band Smog) PRAGEETA SHARMA (Fence Books) JOE WENDEROTH (Verse Press) STEPHEN ELLIOTT (McSweeney's) Bands: CHESNUT STATION and WHITE MAGIC Thursday, March 25, 9pm The Empty Bottle, Chicago, IL 1035 N. Western Ave. (corner of Western & Cortez, 3 blocks south of Division, just north of Augusta) Tickets: $15 (buy tickets and get more specific directions here: http://www.emptybottle.com/home.php) It may sell out, so get your tickets ahead of time... And keep in mind that you must be at least 21 years old. The BigSmallPressMall (http://www.bigsmallpressmall.com) is an online collective of four independent journal/book publishers: Fence, McSweeney's, Verse, and Open City. Drag City is an independent record label based in Chicago (http://www.dragcity.com) -- To unsubscribe from: BigSmallPressMall, just follow this link: http://www.bigsmallpressmall.com/mojo/mojo.cgi?f=u&l=bismall&e=poetics@acsu.buffalo.edu&p=8062 Click this link, or copy and paste the address into your browser. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:25:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Jack Spicer/Philip Dick query (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Thursday, March 11, 2004 10:42 PM -0500 From: John Lowther To: poetics@acsu.buffalo.edu Subject: Jack Spicer/Philip Dick query Lori, please post this for me. I sent it to you before but it got lost in the shuffle. It was rejected again from poetics. I've tried test messages to 5 of 9 other lists that I am on and all of them work fine. Have gone thru my mail preferences and such as well and cannot find any attachment crap, nor do any of my immediate friends get my emails with attachments they say. not sure what else to do. John ** Perhaps someone on this list knows (Kevin Killian, are you still on this list?) In POET BE LIKE GOD [Ellingham and Killian] some thematic connections are discussed between Philip K. Dick and Spicer. This passage; ...when Larry brought Jack a copy of Dick''s novel _Counter Clockwise World_, Spicer said bashfully, "I know Phil Dick!" Dick's novel begins with a scene right out of Spicer's later poetry--a man approaches a hot dog vender in Aquatic Park and receives a slip of paper that reads "HOT DOG." There was a strange confluence in the work of the two writers, since Spicer's theories of dictation, of the "outside," resemble Dick's later vision of VALIS to a remarkable degree. VALIS. Dick's acronym for the "Vast Active Living Intelligence System" that permeates our universe without mercy, only unintelligible revelation, is as scary as anything in Spicer. (The "Pacific Nation" itself is anticipated in the references to the "PSA" [Pacific States of America] in Dick's 1962 novel _The Man in the High Castle_.) _______Page 301 *** I have some questions about this passage. Philip Dick's novel is actually titled _Counter-Clock World_ and doesn't open with a man buying a hot dog. But the hot dog & the slip of paper sound like something from a Dick novel or story, less so perhaps, for me at least, than Spicer's poetry. Where in Philip Dick does the hot dog note story come from? Any guesses? Has anyone written more extensively about this comparison? It would seem to me that Spicer's dictation would compare more to Dick's visions. Spicer's various poetic figures of outsiderness (martians, ghosts, etc) are stagings of this experience, much as in Dick's later novels we see his visions and such reframed in novels, the visions attributed to satellites, aliens etc. *** Also, I have been intrigued by the comparisons made by Peter Gizzi in his afterword to THE HOUSE THAT JACK BUILT where he quotes from "It Came from Outerspace" and "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" and references "Invaders from Mars". I'm trying to work out a few film nights locally, on the 1st I'll show "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" and then Cocteau's "Orphee" at the 2nd I'm not sure, I would like to pair them again in a similar popular/artsy way but also tie them to Spicerian themes. Suggestions welcome for other popular films that figure a fear of difference/paranoia that Spicer could have seen and/or art films which play well next to tropes of dictation, orphic myth, etc. thanks John ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:44:44 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: The 'M' word: a response MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Ok, Rodrigo, now I have about ten minutes to respond to your support of Marxism. I think you said that you are from Mexico, and therefore are probably familiar with Octavio Paz. Have you read his essays on Solzhenitsyn? There are two essays. He remarks in them that in his defense of Solzhenitsyn he was going against Mexican avant-garde culture generally, but that he felt that he had to do it. He does not take up Solzhenitsyn's Christianity, but he does say that what Mexico missed out on was the Protestant Reformation. Somewhere else he talks about this terrible thing called the mordida, in which you have a pyramid scheme and each person pays a higher up a small tax of sorts for their help. He says this is responsible for Mexico's mess. I don't want to get into the Protestant work ethic, and why it functions, and how quickly it would wipe out the mordida, but I just want to try one more idea on you. Or maybe two. 1. What went wrong with Marx was that he read Feuerbach. Feuerbach said that God was an alienation of man's best qualities (he leaves out the devil), and says, according to an introduction to philosophy textbook that I use by Donald Palmer called Looking at Philosophy, "Man is God, but we can only become the god that we are by an act of self-recovery that can be brought about exclusively by annulling our traditional concept of religion." However, Marx then denies Feurbach and says that the changing of material reality will change our spiritual reality. "Marx argued that all change must begin at the level of material configurations." 2. This brings up the foundation/superstructure bogey that Marx brings up. In it, he seems to argue that ALL ART is determined by legal and political arrangements (ideology). This would imply that a countervalent art is not possible, or that a revolutionary art isn't possible, and that even if we think it is, this is false consciousness. How can you then have a true consciousness unless it's through poetry? But, if revolutionary poetry isn't possible, and we are only mimics of the social order, why does this list of revolutionary poets exist? I think it's because in fact this list is actually inspired by dada and surrealism. I actually think that even Bernstein and Silliman and many others owe their larger debt to surrealism than to Marxism. Silliman's blog almost never lists Marxist artists. He is much more interested in writers like Brautigan (quite surrealist) and going back a few months -- Proust -- who was a close friend of the surrealists at their inception (he knew Soupault's mom in high school, and he gave Breton quite a bit of help at the beginning). The leaps in the work of so-called Language poets, their jumps and hops, are not owed to the social realism that came out of Marxism. It is so, that even you, Rodrigo, are closer to Octavio Paz than to Stalin, Lenin, or any of the other Marxists who use artists to try to recreate social reality. And Breton was very inspired not by Marx or Marxists (he came to despise them) but by Lutheran philosophers such as Hegel (who put spirit over matter) and by many German Romantics who were steeped in Lutheranism. Therefore, the hop skip and jump into Lutheran surrealism is hardly even a movement. It's just a realization that we are really all Lutheran surrealists without knowing it. Poets are not about material reality, they are all about spiritual, or at least mental reality. There is no way you can get rich or change the material culture with poetry. You can alter the mental or spiritual culture, however. Jameson and his ilk have everything reversed. I think most poets would agree with Hegel's great joke in the Phenomenology -- where he says that anybody who believes in phrenology deserves a bump on the head. That is, material reality doesn't influence the spirit. The spirit determines material reality. Maybe it's chicken or egg, or maybe it's just a yolk, but Lutheran surrealism -- as it was almost understood by Paz and Breton, has now been well and truly laid before you, as the goose that will give us all the golden eggs of the future. What Hamlet (also a Lutheran!) was to Shakespeare, the omelette of Lutheran surrealism is to the present. Best, Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:42:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Fwd: Last Day of The "Have You Heard" Sale... @ AAWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi gang, skip amazon.com for the month and order from Asian American Writers' Workshop! Kazim --- The Asian American Writers' Workshop wrote: > Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:14:22 -0500 > Subject: Last Day of The "Have You Heard" Sale... @ > AAWW > From: The Asian American Writers' Workshop > > To: > > Dear Friends of The Asian American Writers' > Workshop, > > The Workshop is not moving, we're not closed--that > much I hope you know. But > more than 750 independent bookstores have closed in > just five years, and we > are struggling under the same pressure of > competition and increased costs. > If you want to hear the whole story straight from > our Executive Director > Quang Bao on WBAI radio, you can visit > http://www.asiapacificforum.org/ > (click on archive section.) > > So many of you offered to help the Workshop, and > here's your chance: > > PLEASE BUY A BOOK! > > We're running a 5-10-15-20 dollar sale online, with > free shipping on orders > over $25. The sale ends at midnight on Friday, March > 12, so be sure to check > our website at http://www.aaww.org/ and click on the > sale banner.* > > Thanks for supporting us, > The Workshop > > The Asian American Writers' Workshop > 16 West 32nd Street, Suite 10A > New York NY 10001-3814 > 212-494-0061 tel > 212-494-0062 fax > desk@aaww.org email > http://www.aaww.org/ web > > *Due to the nature of online ordering and increased > demand, books you select > may be out of stock; we will contact you via email > should this be the case > and alert you to your options - your card will NOT > be charged until your > order is ready to ship! > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:11:14 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: The 'M' word: a response In-Reply-To: <4052132B.38E121E0@delhi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" geez kirby: "At the very centre of Marxism is an extraordinary emphasis on human creativity and self-creation. Extraordinary because most of the systems with which it contends stress the derivation of most human activity from an external cause: from God, from an abstracted Nature or human nature, from permanent instinctual systems, or from an animal inheritance. The notion of self-creation, extended to civil society and to language by pre-Marxist thinkers, was radically extended by Marxism to the basic work processes and thence to a deeply (creatively) altered physical world and a self-created humanity. "The notion of creativity, decisively extended to art and thought by Renaissance thinkers, should then, indeed, have a specific affinity with Marxism. In fact, throughout the development of Marxism, this has been a radically difficult area, which we have been trying to clarify. It is not only that some important variants of Marxism have moved in opposite directions, reducing creative practice to representation, reflection, or ideology. It is also that Marxism in general has continued to share, in an abstract way, an undifferentiated and in that form metaphysical celebration of creativity, even alongside these practical reductions. It has thus never finally succeeded in making creativity specific, in the full social and historical material process." Raymond Williams, ~Marxism and Literature~ (1977), p. 206 assuming you aren't familiar with williams's work here, i'd have a good long look, esp. if you're interested more in how marxism has developed (note williams's "development of marxism"), and less in the unreconstructed version(s)... after all, the above was written more than a quarter-century ago... i've always felt that this little book by williams is among the most valuable such critical texts around... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:21:06 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: Re: Cid Corman Has Passed On MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the first issue of _The Difficulties_ (1980), I published these two poems by Cid Corman: 1/ It's hard to say anything and nothing's impossible. Which leaves me hanging here...I think it's better to stop now while I'm still ahead - it that's what this could be said to be. 2. Never comes to much But sometimes something seems to mean something. They seem particularly poignant at this moment, don't they? Sorry to hear of his passing. Tom Beckett ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:24:56 -0500 Reply-To: poetics@listserv.buffalo.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "cartograffiti@mindspring.com" Subject: FW: Re: The 'M' word: a response MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry, accidentally b-c'ed this=2E=2E=2E Original Message: ----------------- From: cartograffiti@mindspring=2Ecom cartograffiti@mindspring=2Ecom Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:15:17 -0500 To: olsonjk@delhi=2Eedu Subject: Re: The 'M' word: a response My ten minutes here, just to say that in the face of such blatant mispresentations of history, it's almost impossible to have an argument=2E= =20 Breton not influenced by Marxism? The same Breton who expressed to Trotsky= his wish that Surrealism become the French wing of the Left Opposition? Reducing the problem with Marx to a third-hand version of the tired base and superstructure problematic? This is the same Marx after all who writes= , "Men [sic] make their own history, but not under conditions of their own choosing=2E" Which is already, in such sound-bite form, a far more nuanced= concept of "determination" than the crude smear that Marxism tout court erases volition from its account of human action=2E (Joe's posting of the text from Williams goes some distance to pointing up how eminently "developable" such a notion is)=2E The constant attempt to align Stalin and the atrocities of "actually existing socialism" with Marxist thought and practice as a whole? Tell you= what, you take a breather next time you want to write bureaucratic Menshevism into Capital, and I'll hold off on blaming J=2EC=2E for the Crusades, or Luther for the Thirty Years' War=2E Some further reading: Since you bring up the engagement with Feuerbach as = a decisive one (tho' this is arguable, being in many ways an underdeveloped and youthful text -- like deciding one's reaction to WC Williams based on = a report from someone who knew someone who once read "The Wanderer", for example), I thought it might be helpful to have a bit of the "These on Feuerbach" themselves, rather than the hearsay synopsis": 2 The question whether objective truth can be attributed to human thinking i= s not a question of theory but is a practical question=2E Man must prove the= truth, i=2Ee=2E, the reality and power, the this-sidedness [Diesseitigkeit= ] of his thinking, in practice=2E The dispute over the reality or non-reality o= f thinking which is isolated from practice is a purely scholastic question=2E= 3 The materialist doctrine that men are products of circumstances and upbringing, and that, therefore, changed men are products of changed circumstances and changed upbringing, forgets that it is men who change circumstances and that the educator must himself be educated=2E Hence this= doctrine is bound to divide society into two parts, one of which is superior to society=2E The coincidence of the changing of circumstances an= d of human activity or self-change [Selbstver=E4nderung] can be conceived an= d rationally understood only as revolutionary practice=2E 4 Feuerbach starts off from the fact of religious self-estrangement [Selbstentfremdung], of the duplication of the world into a religious, imaginary world, and a secular [weltliche] one=2E His work consists in resolving the religious world into its secular basis=2E He overlooks the f= act that after completing this work, the chief thing still remains to be done=2E= For the fact that the secular basis lifts off from itself and establishes itself in the clouds as an independent realm can only be explained by the inner strife and intrinsic contradictoriness of this secular basis=2E The latter must itself be understood in its contradiction and then, by the removal of the contradiction, revolutionised=2E Thus, for instance, once t= he earthly family is discovered to be the secret of the holy family, the former must itself be annihilated [vernichtet] theoretically and practically=2E (And on it goes=2E By the way, if you're interested in chewing on the actu= al texts [not always in the most recent translations, but still=2E=2E=2E], yo= u can find them at www=2Emarxists=2Eorg) OK, I've probably HUAC'ed myself enough for the moment (thanks for that formulation, Rodrigo) -- though the idea that a passing acquaintance with early Hegelian Marxism constitutes some sort of political (and poetic) liability these days, in this forum, is profoundly distressing=2E Taylor Original Message: ----------------- From: Kirby Olson olsonjk@DELHI=2EEDU Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:44:44 -0500 To: POETICS@LISTSERV=2EBUFFALO=2EEDU Subject: Re: The 'M' word: a response Ok, Rodrigo, now I have about ten minutes to respond to your support of Marxism=2E I think you said that you are from Mexico, and therefore are probably familiar wit= h Octavio Paz=2E Have you read his essays on Solzhenitsyn? There are two essays=2E He remarks in them that in his defense of Solzhenitsyn he was going against Mexican avant-garde culture generally, but that he felt that he had to do it=2E He does not take up Solzhenitsyn's Christianity, but he does say that what Mexico missed out on was the Protestant Reformation=2E=20= Somewhere else he talks about this terrible thing called the mordida, in which you have a pyramid scheme and each person pays a higher up a small tax of sorts for their help=2E He sa= ys this is responsible for Mexico's mess=2E I don't want to get into the Protestant work ethic, and why it functions, and how quickly it would wipe out the mordida, but I just want to try one more idea on you=2E= =20 Or maybe two=2E 1=2E What went wrong with Marx was that he read Feuerbach=2E Feuerbach s= aid that God was an alienation of man's best qualities (he leaves out the devil), and says, according to an introduction to philosophy textbook that I use by Donald Palmer called Looking at Philosophy, "Man is God, but we can only become the god that we are by an act of self-recovery that can be brought about exclusively by annulling our traditional concept of religion=2E" However, Marx then denies Feurbach and says that the changing of material reality will change our spiritual reality=2E "Marx argued that all change must begin at the level of material configurations=2E" 2=2E This brings up the foundation/superstructure bogey that Marx brings = up=2E In it, he seems to argue that ALL ART is determined by legal and political arrangements (ideology)=2E This would imply that a countervalent art is not possible, or that a revolutionary art isn't possible, and that even if we think it is, this is false consciousness=2E=20= How can you then have a true consciousness unless it's through poetry? But, if revolutionary poetry isn't possible, and we are only mimics of the= social order, why does this list of revolutionary poets exist? I think it's because in fact= this list is actually inspired by dada and surrealism=2E I actually think that even Bernstein and Silliman and many others owe their larger debt to surrealism than to Marxism=2E=20 Silliman's blog almost never lists Marxist artists=2E He is much more interested in writers like= Brautigan (quite surrealist) and going back a few months -- Proust -- who was a close frien= d of the surrealists at their inception (he knew Soupault's mom in high school, and= he gave Breton quite a bit of help at the beginning)=2E The leaps in the work of so-call= ed Language poets, their jumps and hops, are not owed to the social realism that came out of Marxism=2E It is so, that even you, Rodrigo, are closer to Octavio Paz than to Stalin, Lenin, o= r any of the other Marxists who use artists to try to recreate social reality=2E And Breton was very inspired not by Marx or Marxists (he came to despise them) but by Lutheran philosophers such as Hegel (who put spirit over matter) and by many German Romantics who were steeped in Lutheranism=2E Therefore, the hop skip and jump into Lutheran surrealism is hardly even a movement=2E It's just a realization that we are really a= ll Lutheran surrealists without knowing it=2E Poets are not about material reality, th= ey are all about spiritual, or at least mental reality=2E There is no way you can get rich= or change the material culture with poetry=2E You can alter the mental or spiritual culture, however=2E Jameson and his ilk have everything reversed=2E I think most poets would agree with Hegel's great joke in the Phenomenology -- where he says that anybody who believes= in phrenology deserves a bump on the head=2E That is, material reality doesn't influenc= e the spirit=2E The spirit determines material reality=2E Maybe it's chicken or egg, or maybe it's just a yolk, but Lutheran surrealism -- as it was almost understood by Paz and Breton, has now been well and truly laid before you, as the goose that will give us all the golden eggs of the future=2E What Hamlet (also a Lutheran!) was to Shakespeare, the omelette of Lutheran surrealism is to the present=2E= Best, Kirby Olson -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:37:26 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cyrill Duneau Subject: Standing Steel Comments: To: "DADAism@yahoogroups.com" , "CYBERMIND@LISTSERV.AOL.COM" , "COLLABORICIDE_HASHSHASHINS@yahoogroups.com" , delbarre , Andy Eeckhaut , "mayakovsky@yahoogroups.com" , Situationist , "thepalaceofpostmodernism@yahoogroups.com" , "underground_arts@yahoogroups.com" , "williamsburroughs2@yahoogroups.com" , Chester Winowiecki , WRYTING , john younge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit When these animal skins devices were created the magnificent, yet fragile Army, Navy and Airforce fought over who was best genetically engineered time-honored Taoist method "I'll be there any minute," he said. Even my meat-loving mirroring, surveillance, narcissism, endurance, capable of delivering them playing piano from the ages not suture This favorite tactic of e-mail spammers and the highlights of winter transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of The White House on Al Qaeda the individual or entity and the power of images to whom they are addressed. Some regressive religious bodies so tall that I never saw their faces. It is possible for data play in Iran transmitted by email to protect our low-fat nation to see us vaporized like crack cocaine a Japanese oil heated bath be deliberately or accidentally corrupted or intercepted. drugs and industrial chemicals has been swept for the presence of known problem with circulation or nerve computer viruses. 50 cycles the opposite of complexity but would like too see our very dirty a blur of bosozoku fish-characters not all equally skilled in the visual department in Lisbon on one of the days of difference/paranoia I'll find out who has them and kick the shit out of them. and understandings in a unified way early white trash variously covered with afterword lies 1. An external Sunni boundary; a circuit 2. Sphere or scope. See Iraqis Ungrateful 3. An area in which something be an Islamic warrior or a CIA agent acts or operates first journey of my obsessions leave your mouth work for Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Libya and Cuba blatant mispresentations of self-estrangement history in suburban metal twilight the symbolism of flies in a medieval man buying a hot dog of his passing Can I still remember? is profoundly distressing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:32:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Poetry Project to hold Silent Auction on April 17 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Poetry Project to hold Silent Auction on April 17 Dear friends, readers, collectors and thrill-seekers, The Poetry Project will be holding a silent auction as a spring fundraiser on Saturday, April 17 from 3-7pm. This event will include performances, refreshments, a book table, and other assorted random entities. The Auction will take place in both the Sanctuary and Parish Hall at St. Mark's Church, and if the weather cooperates we'll open the back garden. It is essentiall= y a kind of spring party, which will also serve a fundraiser for The Poetry Project to help us get our programming in gear for the 2004-05 season. We want this to be a community-wide event. There will be both affordable an= d high-end rare books, broadsides, magazines, prints, paintings, drawings, collaborations, collages and other ephemera available (a backstage pass to = a show of Saturday Night Live might be coming down the tube) -- and there wil= l be a casual environment at the event itself. We will gradually, over the course of the next five or six weeks, list the many art and literary items we'll be offering at the auction on our Announcements Page: http://www.poetryproject.com/announcements.html. Prices will not be listed at this point, but we're talking about an approximate range of $3-$2500.=20 More info will come in the days ahead, but look forward to items from/by: Duncan Hannah, Alice Notley, Emilie Clark, Alex Katz, Kiki Smith, George Schneeman, Clark Coolidge, Ted Berrigan, Paul Auster, Lou Reed, Bernadette Mayer, Paul Valery, Jasper Johns, Patti Smith, Yvonne Jacquette, Jim Carroll, Anne Sexton, Jack Spicer, Aram Saroyan, and more...! We can=B9t wait to see you, and to bring in the Spring with what should be a fun party AND a productive fundraiser. Cheers, The Poetry Project Silent Auction and Spring Party: Saturday, April 17th 3 pm-7pm $10, $8 for members The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. =20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:49:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "D. Ross Priddle" Subject: the poetry train MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII peegee, what day of the week is it, is toronto, can we have our ball back, empty fish, mossroof, hallucinosis, the fonds, air art, blank wax, cheap postage, refill paper, to the point of breakdown, bend deep, van door, five to the po, there is one, now we have two, do you have to mark everything?, what a hand!, try copy it, reading won't help you see, mensomastatic, the black letter, the exhibition of human courage, acquisitionism, deconstitution, no signs, puzzle yer head together, prosaic insanity, the function of this text, busy being poets, reflect on light, still progress, ink to the margin, the blue is speaking, initial the word, goto press, inkpressions, this is being tranced for, nothing to being, busy being bored, inter being, trance motion, mere reading, eye wants to join, ink under the microscope, much muck, reversed it, -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:27:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: The 'M' word: a response Comments: To: Kirby Olson In-Reply-To: <4052132B.38E121E0@delhi.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII 2. This brings up the foundation/superstructure bogey that Marx brings up. In it, he seems to argue that ALL ART is determined by legal and political arrangements (ideology). This would imply that a countervalent art is not possible, or that a revolutionary art isn't possible, and that even if we think it is, this is false consciousness. Marx never said or implied this. You might want to read more Marx. - Alan http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm finger sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:36:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Dowker Subject: Re: Jack Spicer/Philip Dick query (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That sounds like _Time Out of Joint_ (1959), except that it's a soft-drink stand which disappears, leaving behind a slip of paper that reads "SOFT-DRINK STAND." David alterra@rogers.com http://members.rogers.com/alterra Poetics List Administration wrote: > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > Date: Thursday, March 11, 2004 10:42 PM -0500 > From: John Lowther > To: poetics@acsu.buffalo.edu > Subject: Jack Spicer/Philip Dick query > > Lori, please post this for me. I sent it to you before but it got lost in > the shuffle. It was rejected again from poetics. I've tried test messages > to 5 of 9 other lists that I am on and all of them work fine. Have gone > thru my mail preferences and such as well and cannot find any attachment > crap, nor do any of my immediate friends get my emails with attachments > they say. not sure what else to do. John > > > ** > Perhaps someone on this list knows (Kevin Killian, are you still on this > list?) > > In POET BE LIKE GOD [Ellingham and Killian] some thematic connections are > discussed between Philip K. Dick and Spicer. This passage; > > ...when Larry brought Jack a copy of Dick''s novel _Counter Clockwise > World_, Spicer said bashfully, "I know Phil Dick!" Dick's novel begins > with a scene right out of Spicer's later poetry--a man approaches a hot dog > vender in Aquatic Park and receives a slip of paper that reads "HOT DOG." > There was a strange confluence in the work of the two writers, since > Spicer's theories of dictation, of the "outside," resemble Dick's later > vision of VALIS to a remarkable degree. VALIS. Dick's acronym for the "Vast > Active Living Intelligence System" that permeates our universe without > mercy, only unintelligible revelation, is as scary as anything in Spicer. > (The "Pacific Nation" itself is anticipated in the references to the "PSA" > [Pacific States of America] in Dick's 1962 novel _The Man in the High > Castle_.) _______Page 301 > > *** > > I have some questions about this passage. > > Philip Dick's novel is actually titled _Counter-Clock World_ and doesn't > open with a man buying a hot dog. But the hot dog & the slip of paper > sound like something from a Dick novel or story, less so perhaps, for me at > least, than Spicer's poetry. Where in Philip Dick does the hot dog note > story come from? Any guesses? > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:04:29 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: FW: Re: The 'M' word: a response In-Reply-To: <107950-220043512212456857@M2W081.mail2web.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" kirby, i keep thinking about what must be bugging you in order for you to go after marx as you are... surely the posts by taylor and others must have persuaded you that you're reading him far too, what, narrowly?... if your point is that english studies *as a profession*---which incl. its scholarship, among so many other things---has in its orientation to more materialist discourse given spiritual thinking short-shrift, i would agree with you (uhm, i think)... i wouldn't read "spiritual" as religious---which you seem to be doing... i tried to talk about this some years ago in a woeful presentation i was invited to give, or a presentation i was invited to give that turned out to be woeful, in which i argued that cultural studies and poetry, as discursive practices, had slipped and slid over materialist AND spiritual(-ist?) issues... it seemed to me that one could locate certain kinds of scholarly discursive realms where, e.g., it was ok to talk about the erotic surplus of *joy*... whereas in most academic contexts, to talk of such things would be deemed a mystification... and in poetry, on the other hand, the resistance to the thought of someone like marx, or better, raymond williams, certainly among more conventional writers---such resistance seemed self-evident... still, i would be loath to try to place *either* the material or the spiritual (the secular spiritual, in my case) one above the other... so you seem to be vying for the wrong sort of critical attention, from where i'm sitting... why not clarify your agenda a bit for us before you charge in head first?... and if you could do so w/o such a relentless desire to shove thought into tidy little categories, that would help lots too... thanks for listening--- best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:44:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: those "crazy" Finns (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I forget that one shouldn't use the word l*st in an emal to the l*st. Robert -- Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop UW Box: 351237 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:39:08 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) From: Robert Corbett To: UB Poetics discussion group Subject: those "crazy" Finns I had to laugh when Kirby wrote that Hegel was a "Lutheran" philosopher, since I had no idea that Absolute Knowledge was a churchly idea (seems to be more about the withering away of said institution, but I don't particular want to engage), but it made recall that Kirby has said he seemed to get into fights in Finnish bars. Well, perhaps this article suggests why. In any case, I have no idea whether the Finns are as reserved as this suggests. I do have a friend who is second generation, but she is one of the nicest people I know, but not reserved (and also a publicist for Soft Skull press). Read on: HELSINKI JOURNAL A Word to Finns: 'For Your Own Good, Blow Your Top' By LIZETTE ALVAREZ Published: March 11, 2004 HELSINKI, Finland Turo Herala is the first to admit that his mission to teach Finns how to get angry and make a scene, or even to feel joy and happiness is, in all likelihood, bound for failure. Three months ago, Mr. Herala, a theater director with a yen for therapy, took it upon himself to bring "anger venting" classes to Helsinki on the theory that his famously silent and stoic compatriots were about to combust from repressed emotion. Finland, while infinitely livable and likable, suffers from some of the world's highest rates of suicide, depression and alcoholism. "How to control and express anger safely," read his classified advertisement in a local newspaper. He has had few takers. An organization that handles domestic violence called to enlist, as did a smattering of individuals. But it was so odd a notion tutorials in how to get angry that Mr. Herala made headlines in the largest daily newspaper here. "Yes, it has been difficult to get people to sign up," he said over a glass of white wine at a local bar, pleased nonetheless at all the attention. "Anger in Finland is a bigger taboo than sex." Psychologists and academics here said they were not surprised that Mr. Herala's advertisement would attract attention as a novelty, and then go largely ignored. "Self-control is very important in Finland," said Dr. Liisa Keltikangas-Jarvinen, a professor of psychology at the University of Helsinki. "You cannot show anger; it means you can't cope. If a person is very temperamental and alive, expresses emotions like anger and happiness, the person is seen as infantile." Even among Nordic peoples, the Finns' stolid nature stands apart. Ben Furman, a psychiatrist who until recently was the host of a popular, but very serious, television talk show here, was pilloried last year for suggesting that the government should stop paying for psychotherapy sessions. As he prepared to defend himself in interviews, over and over again, Mr. Furman said the one piece of advice he consistently got was "don't get angry, no matter how much you are provoked." "People would assume I was guilty if I got angry," said Mr. Furman, co-director of the Brief Therapy Institute here. "I had to rehearse and behave in a way where no emotion was shown. A normal person would react emotionally to these charges. If I was in Italy, I believe I would receive the opposite advice. You must be guilty because you are not reacting emotionally enough." Here, experts say, a car accident brings, not blame and insults, but a polite exchange of information. A bus breakdown causes no complaints; rather, the Finns on the bus will file off and try to push it to the next stop. It is no coincidence that 80 percent of women who give birth here refuse pain-killing epidurals, according to one study. In America, 90 percent of women ask for them. But Dr. Keltikangas-Jarvinen said suppressing anger in Finland was only one piece of the country's entrenched cultural code. Here, it is not unusual to walk into a restaurant and spot most people eating dinner in silence, content to chew and not chatter. Silence is a sign of wisdom and good manners, not boredom and half-wittedness. Some would say this taciturnity has served Finland well, particularly during the cold war, when the Soviet Union was literally a short tank roll away. "For 30 to 40 years there," Dr. Keltikangas-Jarvinen said, "it was politically very wise to be silent." Finns also cringe over compliments. They don't dole them out and they don't take them in. As part of a group therapy exercise, Dr. Furman asked the participants to name one thing they each could do well, he recounted. No reply. Then, he asked the people in the group to give someone else a compliment. They couldn't. Stumped, he broke them up into groups and asked them to say one nice thing about someone outside the circle. Finally, they did. "We needed to back up a couple of steps, to teach people how to talk positively about one another," he said. Ingrained with modesty, Finns are almost physically unable to boast or show off. In an era of unattenuated hype, they cannot self-promote. "It is considered a sin," Dr. Furman said, with a laugh. Dr. Keltikangas-Jarvinen said she receives American rsums, and sometimes cannot help but view them suspiciously. To her, they throb with hyperbole. "I feel shame when I read these `excellent' portfolios,' " she said. The flip side of this modesty, Dr. Keltikangas-Jarvinen and others say, is that Finns, despite their many advances, particularly in the technological field, seem to suffer from a self-esteem crisis. Theirs is such a consensus-driven, homogenous culture that a free exchange of ideas sometimes proves difficult. "I mean, the president has something like a 90 percent approval rating please," Dr. Furman said. "For our country to keep up with competitiveness, we need to respond differently." Mr. Herala, the "anger teacher," said much would be solved if people could just learn to say what they think and express their emotions, be it "I am angry because,"or "I love you because," he said. "We are," he said, "the Finnish version of the Japanese character." -- Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop UW Box: 351237 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:42:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: ah (questions about poetics) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Allison--I see your point, especially about context. In different contexts I've made similar---and even identical--arguments as you're making here. But I guess I'm more curious how you--or anyone--would respond to the other questions I asked, which to me remain less addressed and in many ways more crucial. It's not so much whether "meaning" (as "normative discourse") is privileged in the abstract or "shape and sound" are (both can be equally about style and seduction, and the issue of where the "line of demarcation" is an earnest jest?). But to ask what ends any argument of poetics, or the "value" of any poem, may serve? So if someone implicitly, or even explicitly (though that's rarer in the poetry context I "know"), criticizes or dismisses a poem of mine on the grounds that it doesn't fit their particular preferences in "shape and sound" I personally am less interested in adjusting the way I write to fit what may seem to be their predilections. On the other hand, I might be more willing to adjust to "speaking their language," in the sense of understanding their terminology, lexicon, in the hope of carrying on a conversation--- for instance, I just got a rejection letter which criticized the work I sent for not being "passionate" enough--- and I respect that a) because the editor had the guts to be honest and b) because it can spur me on to send more work in which I might be considered more "passionate" by this person's standards. Sure, at the same time I could argue, "my work is passionate" to this person, or that "what you call passion is a normative bourgeois value, etc." or I may just forget this particular editor, grant it no authority as a temporary tyrant-muse. Next time I'm writing and it occurs to me that what I'm writing is more like poetry, I may remember, "oh yeah, this might fit in with what this editor wants" (actually, this particular editor also accepts prose) and send to this person. This is my own particular context right now, but yeah there have been times when "shape and sound" have mattered more to me, and I'm sure there's been times I've been published more on the grounds of "shape and sound" than on "meaning"--to be starkly binary about it. And there's other writers who some might like more for "shape and sound" who I like more for "meaning", etc. etc. But the question about "normative"---about what's "normative" in the world "at large" and what's "normative" in poetry (or in various sub sub sub specializations of poetry)---well, I'm now more impatient with the notion of "signature style" that seems to grant many writers more authority in "writing communities". A feeling of (not necessarily me) being "held back" by it... And say norms of style, whether old-school iambs, or something more like Olson's particular notion of "breath" (maybe even it's the way HE breathes-- which is fine for him)--when written up in (un iambic, or un-breath-unit) PROSE, and then established as a standard for others (often implicitly)-- and having THAT as a kind of basis for a "community"--seems sick to me, like longhairs getting beaten by cops in the 60s or by punks in the late 70s-- I'm curious what you think about that.... But one needn't even go so as to claim we shouldn't value EAR or MUSIC or "shape and sound" to at least question that these terms are used in ways that privilege certain notions of "shape and sound" (sometimes in poetry "circles", whether "avant" or mainstream") it feels like the awardsters, publishers, editors, etc., are like, say, stravinsky heads and the coltrane heads uniting against a common enemy saying, "The sex pistols aren't music" (or perhaps even vice versa)---but wouldn't it be better to say "it is music, it just doesn't move me"? Or does that undermine their precious CULTURAL AUTHORITY? That, to me, may be the bigger question and though I sometimes thinkfeel the tyranny of "normative discourse" is a reflection of a normative dominant social order, I find that sometimes proponents of a normative social order actually speakwrite in "non-normative" ways and sometimes opponents of this social order writespeak in ways that could be considered normative.... ---------- >From: Alison Croggon >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: ah (questions about poetics) >Date: Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 1:31 PM > > On 11/3/04 7:28 AM, "Chris Stroffolino" wrote: > >> and then do you feel you'll be misunderstood,and criticized, >> because you'll seem as one who does not appreciate the crucial >> importance of aesthetics in poetry, and even in written forms of >> communication, when in reality you've nothing against the ear or music >> but just feel there's a kind of privileged tyranny of these terms? > > I feel kind of opposite, Chris, in that where I am, to suggest that a poem > might not necessarily "contain" a message or have "something to say", or may > be "saying" in its shape and sound, creates all sorts of accusations of > obfuscation and wank. So meaning (in the sense of being like Blair > ON-MESSAGE) seems a privileged tyranny to me. > > Depends on one's context, I guess. > > Best > > A > > > Alison Croggon > > Editor, Masthead > http://www.masthead.net.au > > Home page > http://www.alisoncroggon.com > > Blog > http://alisoncroggon.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:53:37 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Bechtel Subject: Suicide Mass MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lo! We raise the stained book of the dead for all to see its pages Wrested from Charon's bone hands; the first time here - in ages! See how poets fill the slats between the blood-ruled margins - Stalin signed for some of them and made their deaths a bargain - We know their names - now let us join the ranks of these dead poets Remembered well, our names will be in schoolbooks, like the prophets! Cleanse your sins, but not with wine. Send money and secure your shrine! -- Lord Brenton ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 00:00:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Boojum Carter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Boojum Carter feline, aged 13 1/2, four years after our mother's death, biopsy diagnosed as follows: Microscopic: MAMMARY MASS ONE - This mass is demarcated and has a well localized appearance. It is comprised of a collection of neoplastic epithelial cells that are forming tubules. The tubules are separated by variably thick connective tissue septa. The neoplastic cells have ovoid stippled nuclei and a scant amount of eosinophilic cytoplasm. Cytoplasmic borders are distinct. The mitotic rate is low and ranges from 0-1 per high-power field. Nonneoplastic tissue is forming margins. There are scattered aggregates of lymphocytes and plasma cells surrounding the growth MAMMARY MASS TWO - This is the larger of the growths evaluated. There are several large cysts. There is a proliferating population of neoplastic epithelial cells. The cells are organized in the lobules that are forming occasional tubules. The central areas of the lobules are degenerate. Neoplastic cells exhibit invasion. One or two layers of cells line the tubules. The cells have large round vesicular nuclei with multiple nucleoli. The cytoplasm is eosinophilic, scant and cytoplasmic borders are distinct. The mitotic rate ranges up to six per high-power field. Nonneoplastic tissue is forming margins. DIAGNOSIS: MAMMARY MASS ONE- MAMMARY GLAD ADENOCARCINOMA, TUBULAR, LOW GRADE MAMMARY MASS TWO - MAMMARY GLAND ADENOCARCINOMA, TUBULAR CYSTIC PROGNOSIS: Guarded COMMENTS: Feline mammary malignancies should be considered capable of metastasis and warrant a guarded prognosis at best. The first smaller growth evaluated is well localized and is not exhibiting invasion. This appears to be a well-differentiated adenocarcinoma. The second growth is exhibiting invasion and this growth should be considered as having potential for metastasis. Lymphatic invasion is not identified with any of the sections evaluated. These growths appear to be excised. Comments by doctor: Guarded. Felines tend not to recover. She might live six months, several years, or less. There is no way to tell. She needs immune system fortification. The doctor wishes her news would have been better. The question is whether or not the tubules remain within the body. The cancer could spread rapidly or even go into remission. Comments by writer: Boojum is named after the Boojum tree in Baja California. She is thirteen and a half. She exhibits no signs of illness. She has been my companion and is highly sociable and nervous, She has the personality, if not the skills, of a brilliant writer. At the moment she is sleeping, recovering from the removal of her stitches. She travelled with us to Miami, where she encountered, even indoors, new and interesting forms of flora and fauna. Azure and I pray that she will live forever. Comments: That cancer is always the same, disordered, disorderly, a tough go whose treatment is violent and invasive as well. The well-defined structure of the body begins to collapse as tunnels are formed through highly-organized tissue. Every organism is a world of miracles, and every creature dissolves in the fury of cancer and creation. Azure and I are beside ourselves, and Boojum Carter dreams now, not of death. _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 00:08:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Don Summerhayes Subject: Re: Cid Corman has passed on MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this time out the pear blossoms for Cid ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 00:08:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Burt Hatlen Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 11 Mar 2004 to 12 Mar 2004 (#2004-73) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am out of e-mail contact until March 13. I will respond promptly to your message after that date. Burt Hatlen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 00:58:14 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anselm Hollo Subject: "unknown person" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maria Damon: << I saw Cid at Naropa in ... 1995? He read us some amazing Viet Nam War poetry/prose by an unknown person --US man >> "unknown person" was and still is GEORGE EVANS, extraordinary poet and prose writer -- one of the living best, author of SUDDEN DREAMS: NEW AND SELECTED POEMS, Coffee House Press 1991, and THE NEW WORLD, Curbstone Press 2002. Also check out Jacket (web) archive for his essay on Walt Whitman and growing up in Philly. George also edited a volume of Corman / Olson correspondence, don't know if it's in print again. Anselm Hollo ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 01:05:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Skinner Subject: Corman Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cid had made it back to the States one more time: to Wisconsin for the Niedecker Centenary last October. He talked essential Niedecker from beginning to end-- in his winsome, convinced manner-- and gave a great reading at the very end of the conference. It was a long prose poem addressed directly to the audience, in the we are here now mode. Just before opening this email, I was perusing a copy of the October 14, 2003 Daily Jefferson County Union (newspaper) that Peter Whalen (of Woodland Pattern) had kindly sent me, with photos of conference participants milling about Niedecker's cottage on Blackhawk Island, peeking in the windows of the cabin or contemplating the Rock River. At the top of the page is a photo of Corman, with Shizumi looking on, signing a book. The caption reads: "Cid Corman, of Japan, literary executor of the Lorine Niedecker estate, left, and his wife, right, discuss Niedecker with Marilla Fuge, a local Niedecker scholar." (Fuge I believe is a Fort-Atkinson old-timer working on Niedecker's geneaology.) Cid had plans to restart Origin as an online 'zine. I knew him long enough to receive one of his blue typed aerogrammes, in response to a copy of _ecopoetics_ I'd sent: "Yr pieced on Lorine ok. Thank you. Better -- however -- to let her work tell itself." "I remain . . . the most productive poet ever. Nearly 200 books published and hardly any notice of any -- though I've made a point of NOT getting publicity and so have lived a strange life (always in poverty, unlike my friend Allen Ginsberg). No complaint. 1000s of unplublished poems piled up around me here: all publishable, even those I discard." His motto (scribbled on the outside of the envelope): "Life is poetry & poetry is life -- O -- awaken -- children!" Engaged to the last. Where would American poetry be without Cid Corman? JS ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 01:41:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Query - flies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline How could you Mark...! www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com >>> junction@EARTHLINK.NET 03/12/04 14:20 PM >>> Tho I suspect that Mair=E9ad's example is only current in County Blarney. Mark At 06:44 PM 3/12/2004 +0000, you wrote: > >'Most all the time the whole year round, there ain't no flies on me, >Eugene Field, "Jest 'Fore Christmas" (published 1904, but pre-1895, when = he >died) > >which sounds like the phrase predates the poem. It's been used in a lot = of >songs since then. > > >It does indeed. The earliest entry in the OED (1848) is from Australia: > >[H. W. Haygarth Recoll. Bush Life Austral. ix. 101] **'It's lucky we got >them,' said Amos; 'there were "no flies" about that black bull. ' Note. = This >expression is very common in Australia...** > >The OED suggests the origin is US or Australian and glosses its entry = thus: >'The earliest examples indicate that the phrase was prob. orig. applied = to >cattle that are so active that flies do not settle on them.' > >But I like Mair=E9ad's supposition. > >CW >__________________________________________ > >Er monno =E9 una trippetta, e l'omo =E9 un gatto >Che je tocca aspett=E0 la su' porzione >(The world is a load of tripe, and man is a cat >Who must await his share) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:52:52 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Thanks Maria, Tom and Others Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Yes, on-going financial difficulties are very real for Shizumi. If folks would check the archives of this list, bank account information is available for anyone who might want to contribute. Cid died without leaving a will or information regarding other important issues. He kept track of the money, but no bank books have been found as of this date. The sad fact is, Cid and Shizumi existed on next to nothing for years. All of those SOS messages were real. Cid used to wear taped-together glasses and shoes with holes in them when he went out. Had Cid chosen the academic route he would probably be a retired professor living on a good pension with great health benefits, passable teeth, and another five years to look forward to, but he chose an entirely different path and really paid the price for it. He got up every morning and worked on his writing until twelve. I could always count on that, and usually gave him a call in the afternoon. "How's it going, Cid?" "Oh hi, Jesse. Not too bad. No complaints here." And then we'd talk about William Carlos Williams, Olsen, John Dewey, Bronk, Prynne (whom he actually introduced to Olsen) or any number of subjects. He knew them all and the proof is now in his work room in the hundreds of letters and documents that are stacked there in helter skelter fashion. Tomorrow is Cid's funeral and I'll be catching the first bullet train to get to Kyoto on time. I couldn't make it to tonight's wake. Cid is having a Buddhist funeral, but I can't help feeling that Cid should have the benefit of his traditional faith, even though he was a Jewish agnostic. If anyone could say a few prayers for Cid's soul, I'm sure he'd appreciate it. We'll all be reading some of his poems tomorrow in a tribute--and of course, Cid's poems could also be prayers for Cid--maybe the best kind. Cid and I had some conversations about God and such and I came back to that subject when I had my last conversation with him. Cid was being kept alive by machines and it was hard to know what exactly he was thinking--or even if he was thinking. I told him I hoped that he was going to a place free of pain and full of meaning. That maybe that was the secret behind it all--meaning with a capital M. Cid could be brutally honest with people. He also seemed sometimes to be interested in gathering disciples more than friends. He was cold--particularly when it came to publishing his work. Cid, to my knowledge, never said too many thank yous--as if you were doing the world a favor when you pubished something of his. He suffered, I think, from being the smartest kid on the block for fifty years, at least in his part of Japan, and in that isolation he came to believe that his work was greater than Dante's and the Bible--a "fact" which he proclaimed on more than one occasion to startled visitors. He also appeared to keep Shizumi in the dark--and to my mind unfairly-- about too many things. (A note to those folks who would like to write Cid's biography in future, I want to say right now that without Shizumi's dogged efforts, Cid would have been totally lost in his later years. Shizumi went to work every day to support Cid while he sat home to create the poems which were--in the main--published for copies--or next to nothing in hundreds of little magazines and chapbooks. It was Shizumi who fed them both.) Reading Cid when he was just a phone call away, and reading Cid now that he's truly in, of, and about the text is really a different experience. The so many of the words have picked up an oracular resonance, when before, so much of what he wrote--esp. the last stuff--seemed a bit self-evident and even a tad silly. I just wanted to say sometimes to Cid--"Come of it, man!" But I suppose the same could have been said of Ryokan or any number of real poets who turned out to be much much more than the sum of their parts. As I was saying to Chuck Sandy, (who, with his family, is doing a wonderful job of helping Shizumi and putting Cid to rest, even as I write this)--Cid was Cid. He was a larger than life character--generous, wise, wonderful, vain, arrogant, even perhaps a little foolish--but a real genius, I think. You'll not see his like too often. Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 02:54:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Playnt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Playnt I'm selfish and I'm tired. When I die I'll sleep an eternal sleep. I'll have no choice but to sleep and sleep and sleep. I'm selfish, I keep waiting for my due, for my books to appear, for Marjorie Perloff to pat me on the shoulder, for a MacArthur grant, for Katherine Hayles to realize I have something to say, for something that might get me out of debt. I help everyone I can, and there are so many people who don't like me, precisely because of this, my incessant posting, my whining, my obvious depressions, my aggressions, my acerbic nature. At the last few conferences, I've been in troubles, sometimes I think I'm invited only out of guilt by someone or other. All I can fall back on is my work, and what does that amount to, if I'm in everyone's kill file, if I'm not in bookstores or Kim's video or Target? I keep putting out trash-work, hoping someone will see the value in it. I think I should disguise this playnt by coding and recoding cleverly - as if my own works had any significance in the first place. In any case, as soon as I'm dead it will all disappear. Look at the fury of the world around us. We keep placing ourselves out 'there' for no reason at all. Even rebellion is stillborn, the enemy has literally billions to push its way through our hearts and minds. So my own quibbles mean nothing in this regard. But I want to present my work in a clean and proper way, I still want, at 61, to teach a class in media, in experimental work, I still want, at 61, to receive my first grant for my work since 1976, to see my book on a bookshelf in a nice store with someone looking through the pages; I still want, at 61, before I can no longer think, to find my soundwork at Kim's Video or Target or Borders, my images in a wonderfully prepared and printed book, my audience not one I have to force myself onto; at 61, I'm so so tired, bone-tired, death-tired, fear-tired, sick-tired, of self-justification, self-explanation, self-critique, self-theory, ugly and useless self-promotion, as if this narcissistic hole-in-the-wall is all there is ___ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 03:22:08 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: 2/12/04 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit st agnes n.y.p.l spring book sale gani finds levertov's copy of corman gerard didn't know piedro pietri words will the missing link... drn..3:00...2/13... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:01:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog Blog on one of its best days ever MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit March 17, 1991 Read more about it, complete with circa 1991 student newspaper writings, and links to later writings and photographs. http://boogcity.blogspot.com as ever, david ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:18:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: Lyn Hejinian live webcast Mar 23 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit KELLY WRITERS HOUSE FELLOWS presents a conversation with LYN HEJINIAN via live worldwide webcast -------------------------- Tuesday, March 23, 10:30 AM (eastern time) RSVP required to: whfellow@writing.upenn.edu or 215.573.9749 When you rsvp, we will send you instructions for joining us by webcast. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lyn Hejinian is a poet, essayist, and translator; she was born in the San Francisco Bay Area and lives in Berkeley. Published collections of her writing include Writing is An Aid to Memory, My Life, Oxota: A Short Russian Novel, Leningrad (written in collaboration with Michael Davidson, Ron Silliman, and Barrett Watten), The Cell, The Cold of Poetry, and A Border Comedy; the University of California Press published a collection of her essays entitled The Language of Inquiry. She has travelled and lectured extensively in Russia as well as Europe, and Description and Xenia, two volumes of her translations from the work of the contemporary Russian poet Arkadii Dragomoshchenko, have been published by Sun and Moon Press. From 1976 to 1984, Hejinian was the editor of Tuumba Press and from 1981 to 1999 she was the co-editor (with Barrett Watten) of Poetics Journal. She is also the co-director (with Travis Ortiz) of Atelos, a literary project commissioning and publishing cross-genre work by poets; Atelos was nominated as one of the best independent literary presses by the Firecracker Awards in 2001. Other collaborative projects include a work entitled The Eye of Enduring undertaken with the painter Diane Andrews Hall and exhibited in 1996, a composition entitled Quê Trân with music by John Zorn and text by Hejinian, a mixed media book entitled The Traveler and the Hill and the Hill created with the painter Emilie Clark (Granary Press, 1998), and the experimental film Letters Not About Love, directed by Jacki Ochs, for which Hejinian and Arkadii Dragomoshchenko wrote the script. In the fall of 2000, she was elected the sixty-sixth Fellow of the Academy of American Poets. for more information: http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~whfellow previous Fellows: Russell Banks 2004 Susan Sontag 2003 Walter Bernstein Laurie Anderson John Ashbery 2002 Charles Fuller Michael Cunningham June Jordan 2001 David Sedaris Tony Kushner Grace Paley 2000 Robert Creeley John Edgar Wideman Gay Talese 1999 recordings of live webcasts featuring the Fellows can be found here: http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~wh/webcasts/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:33:05 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cyrill Duneau Subject: Fwd: omniglot Comments: To: =?iso-8859-1?b?RnLpZOlyaXF1ZQ==?= BLOCK , "burroughsnakedlunch@yahoogroups.com" , "COLLABORICIDE_HASHSHASHINS@yahoogroups.com" , "CYBERMIND@LISTSERV.AOL.COM" , "DADAism@yahoogroups.com" , "mayakovsky@yahoogroups.com" , "randomART@yahoogroups.com" , Situationist , "thepalaceofpostmodernism@yahoogroups.com" , "underground_arts@yahoogroups.com" , "williamsburroughs2@yahoogroups.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I just wanted to mention a truly fantastic website I've just discovered - the kind of thing that restores my faith in this medium. The site is http://www.omniglot.com and it contains a comprehensive list of the world's various writing systems. Each has its own page, which gives a good potted history of the writing system in question, tells you what languages it is used to write, shows the complete alphabet (with the names and phonetic equivalents of the glyphs), has a sample text with transliteration and translation, provides links to places one can download free fonts for that script system as well as links to resources on the languages it is used for. If, like me, you're fascinated by the character palette in Panther - with all the fantastic writing systems that Apple now bundle with the system - this is a brilliant complement. I had no idea what 'Deseret' might be, for instance - I'd never heard of this curious alphabet which Apple obligingly provides. Turns out it was invented by the Mormons... What's more, the site seems to have been created by just one person. James ---- Message sent by The Graphics List. ----- End forwarded message ----- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:20:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William A Sylvester Subject: Juliana Spahr's new book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII has a virtue that might be overlooked: the print on the page implies a powerful vocal delivery, it seems to me, for example like the sonar of the dolphin and the sonar of the blowing like the piece of the end of the bird and the piece of the end of the dolphin/ like the wings of the butterfly and the bird like hummingbird of the suction and the suction of the butterfly like the language of the human being and the hummingbird of the language The book is subtle in many ways, and deserves a detailed review, and surely one should appear in Jonathan Skinner's ECOPOETICS, given Spahr's explicitly distancing herself from most "nature" poetry and turning toward ethnobotany, among other concerns (Dasein/Sein?) The title is: things of each possible relation hashing against one another Published by Palm Press www.palmpress.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:32:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Gov Surveillance Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This from a Republican Party run Republic that ran on the principle of getting the Feds out of our lives. More than a bit spooky. Subscribe to The Post By Dan Eggen and Jonathan Krim Washington Post Staff Writers Saturday, March 13, 2004; Page A01 The Justice Department wants to significantly expand the government's ability to monitor online traffic, proposing that providers of high-speed Internet service should be forced to grant easier access for FBI wiretaps and other electronic surveillance, according to documents and government officials. A petition filed this week with the Federal Communications Commission also suggests that consumers should be required to foot the bill. Law enforcement agencies have been increasingly concerned that fast-growing telephone service over the Internet could be a way for terrorists and criminals to evade surveillance. But the petition also moves beyond Internet telephony, leading several technology experts and privacy advocates yesterday to warn that many types of online communication, including instant messages and visits to Web sites, could be covered. The proposal by the Justice Department, the FBI and the Drug Enforcement Administration could require extensive retooling of existing broadband networks and could impose significant costs, the experts said. Privacy advocates also argue that there are not enough safeguards to prevent the government from intercepting data from innocent users. Justice Department lawyers argue in a 75-page FCC petition that Internet broadband and online telephone providers should be treated the same as traditional telephone companies, which are required by law to provide access for wiretaps and other monitoring of voice communications. The law enforcement agencies complain that many providers do not comply with existing wiretap rules and that rapidly changing technology is limiting the government's ability to track terrorists and other threats. They are asking the FCC to curtail its usual review process to rapidly implement the proposed changes. The FBI views the petition as narrowly crafted and aimed only at making sure that terrorist and criminal suspects are not able to evade monitoring because of the type of telephone communications they use, according to a federal law enforcement official who spoke on the condition of anonymity. "Lawfully-authorized electronic surveillance is an invaluable and necessary tool for federal, state and local law enforcement in their fight against criminals, terrorists, and spies," the petition said, adding that "the importance and the urgency of this task cannot be overstated" because "electronic surveillance is being compromised today." But privacy and technology experts said the proposal is overly broad and raises serious privacy and business concerns. James X. Dempsey, executive director of the Center for Democracy & Technology, a public interest group, said the FBI is attempting to dictate how the Internet should be engineered to permit whatever level of surveillance law enforcement deems necessary. "The breadth of what they are asking for is a little breathtaking," Dempsey said. "The question is, how deeply should the government be able to control the design of the Internet? . . . If you want to bring the economy to a halt, put the FBI in charge of deploying new Internet and communications services." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:47:58 -0500 Reply-To: Geoffrey Gatza Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Ashcroft Reconsiders Life & Career After Surgery, Turns To Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable B l a z e VOX U P D A T E : =20 New Work & BlazeVOX [books]=20 New Works: http://www.blazevox.org=20 Kent Johnson=20 + Poem Upon a Typo Found in an Interview of Kenneth Koch,=20 Conducted by David Shapiro -- a new flash poem + A Sentence for Aaron Belz -- a new poem =20 =20 =20 Michael Kelleher=20 To Be Sung -- a new ebook =20 =20 sheila e. murphy pressure on the spine her spine your spine my spine -- a new ebook =20 =20 mIEKAL aND=20 Truth Squeal Vacuum -- a new ebook BlazeVOX [books] http://www.cafeshops.com/blazevox=20 Brand New and still in the Box: Welcome to BlazeVOX [books] This is = Publishing House of the BlazeVOX.org/ We are pleased to bring you the = finest in international post avant poetry and digital writings. The = editorial board currently includes Ezra Pound, Wallace Steven, Emily = Dickinson, Geoffrey Gatza, Kent Johnson, Alan Sondheim, Ted Pelton and = P. B. Gelly.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 13:20:44 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Jack Spicer/Philip Dick query (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The German director Fassbinder's "Fear Eats the Soul," I think. It was years= =20 ago I saw it. Another absolutely frightening great movie whose title I do no= t=20 remember, "Bad Day...." It has Spencer Tracy as a one-armed outsider coming=20= by=20 train to a town in the middle of the desert. Robert Ryan is the head of a=20 gang in the town. The movie has the structure of a Western, but it is not. T= racy=20 is in civilian black clothes, wounded in the Second World War. It is his=20 civilian black suit which stir up suspicions first. Many westerns deal with=20= the=20 theme of the outsider coming to town -a recent example, Clint Eastwood's "Th= e=20 Unforgiven." Murat In a message dated 3/12/04 2:25:41 PM, poetics@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU writes: > Lori, please post this for me. I sent it to you before but it got lost in > the shuffle. It was rejected again from poetics. I've tried test messages > to 5 of 9 other lists that I am on and all of them work fine. Have gone > thru my mail preferences and such as well and cannot find any attachment > crap, nor do any of my immediate friends get my emails with attachments > they say. not sure what else to do. John >=20 >=20 > ** > Perhaps someone on this list knows (Kevin Killian, are you still on this > list?) >=20 > In POET BE LIKE GOD [Ellingham and Killian] some thematic connections are > discussed between Philip K. Dick and Spicer. This passage; >=20 > ...when Larry brought Jack a copy of Dick''s novel _Counter Clockwise > World_, Spicer said bashfully, "I know Phil Dick!"=A0 Dick's novel begins > with a scene right out of Spicer's later poetry--a man approaches a hot do= g > vender in Aquatic Park and receives a slip of paper that reads "HOT DOG." > There was a strange confluence in the work of the two writers, since > Spicer's theories of dictation, of the "outside," resemble Dick's later > vision of VALIS to a remarkable degree. VALIS. Dick's acronym for the "Vas= t > Active Living Intelligence System" that permeates our universe without > mercy, only unintelligible revelation, is as scary as anything in Spicer. > (The "Pacific Nation" itself is anticipated in the references to the "PSA" > [Pacific States of America] in Dick's 1962 novel _The Man in the High > Castle_.) _______Page 301 >=20 > *** >=20 > I have some questions about this passage. >=20 > Philip Dick's novel is actually titled _Counter-Clock World_ and doesn't > open with a man buying a hot dog. But=A0 the hot dog & the slip of paper > sound like something from a Dick novel or story, less so perhaps, for me a= t > least, than Spicer's poetry. Where in Philip Dick does the hot dog note > story come from?=A0 Any guesses? >=20 > Has anyone written more extensively about this comparison?=A0 It would see= m > to me that Spicer's dictation would compare more to Dick's visions. > Spicer's various poetic figures of outsiderness (martians, ghosts, etc) ar= e > stagings of this experience, much as in Dick's later novels we see his > visions and such reframed in novels, the visions attributed to satellites, > aliens etc. >=20 > *** >=20 > Also, I have been intrigued by the comparisons made by Peter Gizzi in his > afterword to THE HOUSE THAT JACK BUILT where he quotes from "It Came from > Outerspace" and "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" and references "Invaders > from Mars".=A0 I'm trying to work out a few film nights locally, on the 1s= t > I'll show "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" and then Cocteau's "Orphee" at > the 2nd I'm not sure, I would like to pair them again in a similar > popular/artsy way but also tie them to Spicerian themes. Suggestions > welcome for other popular films that figure a fear of difference/paranoia > that Spicer could have seen and/or art films which play well next to trope= s > of dictation, orphic myth, etc. >=20 > thanks > John >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 13:24:14 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Jack Spicer/Philip Dick query (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Western reference may prove fruitful since obviously Spicer was interested in the genre. Murat In a message dated 3/12/04 2:25:41 PM, poetics@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU writes: > Lori, please post this for me. I sent it to you before but it got lost in > the shuffle. It was rejected again from poetics. I've tried test messages > to 5 of 9 other lists that I am on and all of them work fine. Have gone > thru my mail preferences and such as well and cannot find any attachment > crap, nor do any of my immediate friends get my emails with attachments > they say. not sure what else to do. John > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 13:25:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: omniglot In-Reply-To: <1079188385.40531ba1de169@imp4-q.free.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Many thanks for posting this link, Cyrill. You don't oversell the site by one little bit. Hal "Always treat language like a dangerous toy." --Anselm Hollo Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard { I just wanted to mention a truly fantastic website I've just { discovered - the kind of thing that restores my faith in this medium. { { The site is http://www.omniglot.com and it contains a comprehensive list of { the world's various writing systems. Each has its own page, which { gives a good potted history of the writing system in question, tells { you what languages it is used to write, shows the complete alphabet { (with the names and phonetic equivalents of the glyphs), has a sample { text with transliteration and translation, provides links to places { one can download free fonts for that script system as well as links { to resources on the languages it is used for. { { If, like me, you're fascinated by the character palette in Panther - { with all the fantastic writing systems that Apple now bundle with the { system - this is a brilliant complement. I had no idea what { 'Deseret' might be, for instance - I'd never heard of this curious { alphabet which Apple obligingly provides. Turns out it was invented { by the Mormons... { { What's more, the site seems to have been created by just one person. { { { James { { { ---- { Message sent by The Graphics List. { ----- End forwarded message ----- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 13:52:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Jack Spicer/Philip Dick query (fwd) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >The German director Fassbinder's "Fear Eats the Soul," I think. It was years >ago I saw it. Another absolutely frightening great movie whose title I do not >remember, "Bad Day...." at Black Rock" -- George Bowering Never saw "Cheers". 303 Fielden Ave. Port Colborne. ON, L3K 4T5 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:30:14 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cyrill Duneau Subject: =?iso-8859-1?b?TfZiaXVzLWxpa2U=?= girl Comments: To: "burroughsnakedlunch@yahoogroups.com" , Eric Byrne , "celine (www.worlock.org)" , "COLLABORICIDE_HASHSHASHINS@yahoogroups.com" , "CYBERMIND@LISTSERV.AOL.COM" , "DADAism@yahoogroups.com" , delbarre , Andy Eeckhaut , "eric.sadin@wanadoo.fr" , "mayakovsky@yahoogroups.com" , "mick.wilson@iadt-dl.ie" , "mimetic@bluewin.ch" , "randomART@yahoogroups.com" , "rhonag@eircom.net" , Situationist , "sophie.heitz" , =?iso-8859-1?b?culteQ==?= Talec , "thepalaceofpostmodernism@yahoogroups.com" , "underground_arts@yahoogroups.com" , "williamsburroughs2@yahoogroups.com" , "webartery@yahoogroups.com" , Chester Winowiecki , john younge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Are you downloading porn again??? - This author has been banned "electronic surveillance is being compromised today." What would you like to write about? escrita profundamento en la carne de mi corazón Et beaucoup plus encore not in anybodies best interest the morally bankrupt politics of Mexico The First cabinet de curiosités is the Word Stereotype and leave crying spoken- word experience to monitor online traffic It was the spring of 1973 and Yokosuka itself has over 26000 I had been dating a sweet young Möbius-like girl ( who I would later marry) that was attending both full-on and/or oral college in downtown Hiroshima. violated a X-Rated modesty code down in torrents after a typhoon with the negative ones too please call me at 866-703-6566 military bases is very touchy, because unlike re- shift itself to deconstruction mode IMHO crime rate to rise since December beyond our paltry three dimensions who live in endless orgasm IMHO be front before removed into contemporary consciousness? IMHO a stone cold? Calabi-Yau manifolds located run over, then run over again, by an Israeli bulldozer IMHO vacation time, sick time, etc.;and so on. anyone else got any ideas? IMHO as something beyond our control wish I could read this love to two young Mexican writers who were arrested The white horse upstairs on burg quay I accidently deleted you. I'm really really sorry. I can't seem to find you at any rate. NOT in Europe, NOT in the US, NOT ANYWHERE!!! (age, looks, experience etc of The Justice Department no consequence) that can be construed as a black monochrome weapon it has been encrypted in our database #local a = ; #if ( inside ( g, a ) ) sphere{ a, r()/50, 1 pigment { rgb .5 + } i like to sleep alound with any guy let any guy rape me interfere#local i=i+1; #end #end translate -<.3.5> }withe my body take advantage of me fucke me anyway possible i like geting round and fat or pregnant with any guys and i dress{max_trace_level 50}light_source{<-10,-7,- 2>1shadowless} union{box{-20,20finish{reflection 1ambient revealingly like like cuming being fetish and make my sound like im an easy ttarget F=function{pattern {crackle scale.01form z-x}}fog{.5rgb z/2+y}iso surface and leting them know i get on the pc when i can id i tell them anything and show them anything and give them what they whant or optimised the code, throwing out anything that I thought wasn't vital desire frrom me or in a girl im mostly like a nought 7 versions slut type of girl. Current Status: Some booze was needed, respected were resistance Estimate: 2-4 WHICH DATE + TIME to "The Palestinian political poster genre cannot be considered anti-semiotic" Dark U.S. police forensics are a secret desire of many VSr/qir//1UAAFUAVVUAqlUA/1UfAFUfVVUfqlUf/1U/AFU/VVU/qlU//1VfAFVf VVVfqlVf/1V/AFV/VVV/qlV//1WfAFWfVVWfqlWf/1W/AFW/VVW/qlW//1XfAFXfVVXfqlXf more hardcore action in the Gaza Strip is derising to forget a form of uber-fashion twenty one miles of rough territory I found his knife the girl occasional tubules the air-speed velocity of an unladen european swallow change their substract by two lives by giving them the secrets of natural current rash of unfounded and malicious rumors contemporary art to that of anatomy excitement, fear and awe out these taboo, underground spin for ages ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:12:54 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: The 'M' word: a response MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Alan, he says it -- This is from Marx's A Contribution to the Critique of Political Economy -- the preface, where he lays out one of two or three paragraphs that I thought were central axioms of his thought. This passage is a direct contradiction of Hegel -- if you've read the Phenomenology, as you probably have, you will see it. Hegel is a Lutheran -- he says as much over and over in his writings -- the German anarchists were all over Hegel for this. Marx was also raised as a Lutheran. This is why he's always citing Luther. But here's where Marx says it -- I think this is like one of the two top paragraphs in all of Marx -- "In the social production of their life, men enter into definite relations that are indispensable and INDEPENDENT OF THEIR WILL, relations of production which correspond to a definite stage of development of their material productive forces. The sum total of these relations of production constitutes the economic structure of society, the REAL foundation, on which rises a legal and political superstructure and to which correspond definite FORMS OF SOCIAL CONSCIOUSNESS. THE MODE OF PRODUCTION OF MATERIAL LIFE CONDITIONS THE SOCIAL, POLITICAL, AND INTELLECTUAL LIFE PROCESS in general. [And this is where he contradicts Hegel:] It is not the consciousness of men that determines their social being, but, on the contrary, their social being that determines their consciousness." Here is a link to the whole preface http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1859/critique-pol-economy/preface.html He does get caught up in a paradox just after this passage where he says that we can become conscious of our social being (presumably with him as a kind of psychoanalyst helping us through our repression. This would indicate that yes, the ideational superstructure CAN INFLUENCE the foundation (or what good would his writings be??), but he always seems to imply that the material foundation is almost totally dominant. Like Plato, he may have offered room to the philosopher-king (soi-meme), but nothing to the poet. Try to find one single sentence in which the poet has a role in the creation of the Marxist society anywhere in Marx. I looked for a good long time. The criminal has a role (in the "fourth" volume of Capital on Surplus Value -- there is a fascinating passage on the criminal as producer of wealth). In existing Marxist societies the poets were often first into the trash bin. In Pol Pot's Cambodia, all literate people were killed. The role of literary people (especially the literate outside of the reigning party elite) has been to shut the hell up and illustrate the philosopher-king's ideas or die in every existing Marxist society. You find the same thing in Plato's Republic. I am simply objecting to this on the part of poets, and wondering why poets have been zombified by a guy who seemingly had next to no need for poets, and who was himself one of the worst poets imaginable. -- Kirby Olson Alan Sondheim wrote: > 2. This brings up the foundation/superstructure bogey that Marx brings > up. In it, he seems to argue that ALL ART is determined by legal and > political arrangements (ideology). This would imply that a countervalent > art is not possible, or that a revolutionary art isn't possible, and that > even if we think it is, this is false consciousness. > > Marx never said or implied this. You might want to read more Marx. - Alan > > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko > http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt > Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > finger sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:32:46 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: The 'M' word: a response MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Joe -- I've read some of Raymond Williams -- I don't know how much -- but not a lot. A hundred pages or so, and watched a videotape. He's interesting, but I think even here you see what a tough game he's playing -- he's trying to wrestle Marx away from Marxism, isn't he? Why bother? The problems with Marxism are so enormous -- you could list fifty countries off the top of your head that have been shitholes for most of the 20th century thanks to Marxism -- and I could ask you -- um, do we want this? How can you fix it so that it works? This is why I originally asked what part of Marxism continues to inspire you? Not Raymond Williams, mind you, but Marx himself. Williams it seems is moving in a direction that Marx himself had not set out, and this is why he's having such trouble with it. Why shouldn't we look to Locke, to Luther, for different models of society (after all, their models have produced America, and the Scandinavian states), and in terms of poetry -- what have Marxist poets (I think this is a contradiction in terms, but I'm not avese to those) produced? Even those few that do exist -- such as Neruda -- could arguably be said to have been more influenced by surrealism. Breton and Trotsky did write a few pieces together when Breton was in Mexico shortly before the pick axe incident, but those pieces on art are not like anything else that Trotsky ever wrote, while they are very much like other writings of Breton's. Breton had the upper hand at the moment, and Trotsky (who had no problem slaughtering people as he did during the Potemkin uprising) had to dance to his superior's tune at this juncture in history. The poets only role among Marxists is to illustrate the guiding principle of the party. If he or she goes outside of that, he is put in prison or killed. Same as in Plato. Now Raymond Williams, it seems to me -- is SAYING EXACTLY what I'm saying in the paragraph below, but he's asking -- MUST THIS BE SO? Look through Gus Hoffman's critical writings (he was a Finn). Thanks for trying to deal with me. I am the only person I know in all of academia who wants off this train. You asked my agenda -- or somebody did -- it's to question what happened to the avant-garde artists in early 20th century who tried to help create Marxist states. What was their reward? Lutheran surrealism will offer a much more pampered situation for artists and poets. Luther's best friend was Albrecht Durer. Breton's best friends include many of the most important painters of the 20th century. Did Williams have great poets and painters among his close personal friends? Did Marx? I think that our sources of inspiration are inadequate, and even wrong. Luther and Breton are the way. -- Kirby Olson Joe Amato wrote: > geez kirby: > > > > "The notion of creativity, decisively extended to art and thought by > Renaissance thinkers, should then, indeed, have a specific affinity > with Marxism. In fact, throughout the development of Marxism, this > has been a RADICALLY DIFFICULT area, which we have been trying to > clarify. It is not only that some important variants of Marxism have > moved in OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS, reducing creative practice to > representation, reflection, or ideology. It is also that Marxism in > general has continued to share, in an abstract way, an > undifferentiated and in that form metaphysical celebration of > creativity, even alongside these practical reductions. It has thus > never finally succeeded in making creativity specific, in the full > social and historical material process." > > Raymond Williams, ~Marxism and Literature~ (1977), p. 206 > > assuming you aren't familiar with williams's work here, i'd have a > good long look, esp. if you're interested more in how marxism has > developed (note williams's "development of marxism"), and less in the > unreconstructed version(s)... after all, the above was written more > than a quarter-century ago... i've always felt that this little book > by williams is among the most valuable such critical texts around... > > best, > > joe ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:41:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: The 'M' word: a response Comments: To: Kirby Olson In-Reply-To: <40536B46.B73984B4@delhi.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Yes, it says "conditions," but not determines. If you've read Marx's (or Engels') lit crit, you'd see that clearly. Most people react positively to the early notebooks; I do as well. As far as Pol Pot, you can't blame Marx on that, any more than you can blame the so-called founding fathers here (or Voltaire for that matter) for Bush. Marx's work on surplus value, exchange value, alienation, use value, mediation, is important as you know - out of it developed the cultural work of Adorno, Horkheimer, Benjamin, etc., all of which is still relevant and brilliant. I know of no better work than Benjamin's Arcade Project for an account of the activities and interactivities of culture and capital, and it's a fun read as well. - Alan http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm finger sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 14:18:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Re: The 'M' word: a response In-Reply-To: <40536B46.B73984B4@delhi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirby, Well, you finally get around to citing something, and it actually contradicts the point you were trying to make in some fairly important ways. First, to your contention that for Marx "ALL ART is determined by legal and political arrangements (ideology)" -- in this passage it's pretty clear that law and politics are themselves superstructural, not foundational. But the deeper problem is with the continuing (more than a century and a half, and counting) willful misreading of the place of "determination", "correspondence" , and "conditioning" in this passage by readers who approach it from the standpoint of their prior received conviction that Marx is a crude determinist. As Alan points out, the crucial verb in the passage is "conditions," not "determines." That is, political, ideological, and legal superstructures are "conditioned" to "correspond" to relations of production. There's a whole lot of wiggle room in those verbs, and most subsequent Marxist thought (Marx's own as well as others'), is concerned to develop their possible nuances. You can see some of this, for example, in v3 of Capital's critical account of the hereditary landed estates and their relation to agricultural production. Here the laws of value set a limit to -- that is, "condition" -- the realizability of rent in landed property. At the same time, within the scope of this situation, title in land (a legal, not a productive relationship) exerts a considerable reciprocal influence on the rate of profit and consequent attractiveness to capital investment of agriculture. It's true that in the end, the productive forces win out when, in this case, the growing productivity of agriculture (which historically lags behind industry) forces down the average rate of profit to the point where it runs up against monopoly in land as a limit, and the legal and political fields are increasingly pressured to adjust and provide for greater alienability and fungibility of land. (This is pretty well borne out by the historical record, by the way). But nowhere is this a direct relation of "causative determination" between "base" and "superstructure" -- in fact, the laws governing property "correspond" to the productive relations in agriculture, for the period in question, in the mode of a specific contradiction, not an unmediated reflection. Where "determination" does come up in the passage you cite, it's pretty clear, as you indicate, that this is intended to be a pithy inversion of Hegel. And so I think it would behoove us to look into Hegel at this point for at least a preliminary sense of what Marx might mean by "determination," which is almost never, in that tradition of German philosophy, meant to stand for causation plain and simple. Determination is more often a providing-of-ground-for, or again, as with "conditioning," above, a setting of the limits that allow a concept (in Hegel) or a social relation (in Marx) to become active as such. (A setting of terms, literally. Oddly, Olson comes to mind here: limits are what we're inside of (which is probably not the exact phrase, I think the grammar is a bit funkier, but Maximus is out on loan to a friend)). Given this somewhat more nuanced sense of determination, the paradox you point out in the later passage, in which consciousness is activated to change social being, simply disappears. The paramount point, developed over and over in Marx and throughout most of the Marxist tradition, is that consciousness encounters a world that poses definite limits to its activity (that's the "independent of their will" you've emphasized), and then sets about -- ON THE TERRAIN OF THAT GIVEN WORLD -- to remove or transform the limits. This is actually one of the more expansive accounts of human creativity going (cf. C.L.R. James, who develops it along the lines of a preference for "creativity" to "productivity"), and I would think poets and artists would find it of interest. That Marx doesn't develop his own specific model of poetic cultural production doesn't bother me so much. The guy only lived so long. Less flippantly, within the so-called western Marxist tradition, the articulation of such a theory has been a productive concern for the better part of a century now. (Cf. Alan's nod to Adorno and Benjamin, also Lukacs, Jameson, etc.) There are other gaps in Marx's own texts that have functioned similarly -- for example, see David Harvey's attempts to theorize a geographical dimension in Marxist thought, where Marx's own texts, aside from the suggestive final chapter of Capital v1 and a lot of political journalism on British colonialism, have left this dimension largely unarticulated. And it may well prove that in some of those "gaps," an adequate theory can't be constructed within the terms of "Marxism." It's not a unified theory of everything, and, as Rodrigo helpfully points out (quoting Michael Stipe?), "Life is big." Protestant theology, by the same token, isn't a very successful means to negotiate theories of biological evolution, but for the great majority of self-identified American Protestants, that hasn't necessitated jettisoning their faith all at once. And it hasn't stopped them from attending to the biological sciences -- though there's always Kansas as a counterexample. Similarly, your insistence that a theory unconcerned in its first iteration with poetry is of no use to poets seems profoundly limiting to the art of poetry. Are we to hold court in sealed chambers with poets and nobody but? The phatic hum of all those echoes -- "here I am, I am a poet too," "yes i am a poet," "poet," "poet" -- would be so perfectly self-cancelling as to obviate any sense we might have had that we'd cleared a special place for poetry. Poetry under such conditions would simply disappear. As in Oppen, the rocks and waves aren't all that impressed with your status as a poet, either, but it doesn't release you from the obligation to let them enter your poetry if that's where you find yourself. But again, this is probably more than is warranted by one marginal criticism (your reading of the passage from the Critique, an objection that has been raised and answered so many times as to approach, itself, the echo-chamber I sketched above), tacked on to the usual crude smear campaign with its Pol Pots and zombie armies of brain-devouring Marxist poets. Mmmmmmm, brains.... Taylor On Saturday, March 13, 2004, at 12:12 PM, Kirby Olson wrote: > Alan, he says it -- > > This is from Marx's A Contribution to the Critique of Political > Economy -- > the preface, where he lays out one of two or three paragraphs that I > thought > were central axioms of his thought. This passage is a direct > contradiction > of Hegel -- if you've read the Phenomenology, as you probably have, > you will > see it. Hegel is a Lutheran -- he says as much over and over in his > writings > -- the German anarchists were all over Hegel for this. Marx was also > raised > as a Lutheran. This is why he's always citing Luther. > > But here's where Marx says it -- I think this is like one of the two > top > paragraphs in all of Marx -- > > "In the social production of their life, men enter into definite > relations > that are indispensable and INDEPENDENT OF THEIR WILL, relations of > production > which correspond to a definite stage of development of their material > productive forces. The sum total of these relations of production > constitutes the economic structure of society, the REAL foundation, on > which > rises a legal and political superstructure and to which correspond > definite > FORMS OF SOCIAL CONSCIOUSNESS. THE MODE OF PRODUCTION OF MATERIAL LIFE > CONDITIONS THE SOCIAL, POLITICAL, AND INTELLECTUAL LIFE PROCESS in > general. > [And this is where he contradicts Hegel:] It is not the consciousness > of men > that determines their social being, but, on the contrary, their social > being > that determines their consciousness." > > Here is a link to the whole preface > > http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1859/critique-pol-economy/ > preface.html > > He does get caught up in a paradox just after this passage where he > says that > we can become conscious of our social being (presumably with him as a > kind of > psychoanalyst helping us through our repression. This would indicate > that > yes, the ideational superstructure CAN INFLUENCE the foundation (or > what good > would his writings be??), but he always seems to imply that the > material > foundation is almost totally dominant. > > Like Plato, he may have offered room to the philosopher-king > (soi-meme), but > nothing to the poet. Try to find one single sentence in which the > poet has a > role in the creation of the Marxist society anywhere in Marx. I > looked for a > good long time. The criminal has a role (in the "fourth" volume of > Capital > on Surplus Value -- there is a fascinating passage on the criminal as > producer of wealth). > > In existing Marxist societies the poets were often first into the > trash bin. > In Pol Pot's Cambodia, all literate people were killed. The role of > literary > people (especially the literate outside of the reigning party elite) > has been > to shut the hell up and illustrate the philosopher-king's ideas or die > in > every existing Marxist society. You find the same thing in Plato's > Republic. > > I am simply objecting to this on the part of poets, and wondering why > poets > have been zombified by a guy who seemingly had next to no need for > poets, and > who was himself one of the worst poets imaginable. > > -- Kirby Olson > > Alan Sondheim wrote: > >> 2. This brings up the foundation/superstructure bogey that Marx >> brings >> up. In it, he seems to argue that ALL ART is determined by legal and >> political arrangements (ideology). This would imply that a >> countervalent >> art is not possible, or that a revolutionary art isn't possible, and >> that >> even if we think it is, this is false consciousness. >> >> Marx never said or implied this. You might want to read more Marx. - >> Alan >> >> http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko >> http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt >> Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm >> finger sondheim@panix.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:34:58 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: "unknown person" In-Reply-To: <145.24395d10.2d83fcf6@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" thanks anselm; clearly the person was unknown to me, and also i recall quite dramatically Cid presenting him as an "unknown" --it was in the context of cid demonstrating to us his knack for picking out unknowns w/ great talent --i am glad g evans has found a venue --and apologize for my ignorance. At 12:58 AM -0500 3/13/04, Anselm Hollo wrote: >Maria Damon: << I saw Cid at Naropa in ... 1995? He read us some amazing >Viet Nam War poetry/prose by an unknown person --US man >> > >"unknown person" was and still is GEORGE EVANS, extraordinary poet and prose >writer -- one of the living best, author of SUDDEN DREAMS: NEW AND SELECTED >POEMS, Coffee House Press 1991, and THE NEW WORLD, Curbstone Press 2002. Also >check out Jacket (web) archive for his essay on Walt Whitman and growing up in >Philly. George also edited a volume of Corman / Olson correspondence, don't >know if it's in print again. > >Anselm Hollo -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:27:17 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Seldess Subject: Clark Coolidge email address MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone knows how to get in touch with Clark Coolidge through email? = If so, please backchannel me. Thanks, Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:40:38 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: Re: Jack Spicer/Philip Dick query (fwd) In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Bad Day at Black Rock (1955) Spencer Tracy, Ernest Borgnine, Robert Ryan, Lee Marvin, Anne Francis and many others. Very sinister small town Black Rock, enter outsider Tracy who unclosets the skeletons. A terrific fight scene between one-armed Tracy and - I guess it was Borgnine who played the heavy but I seem to remember Mickey O'Shaughnessy as the loud-mouth heavy who lost. Haven't seen it since it came out in 55, but it's a movie that stuck in my young memory then and sticks in my older memory now, yes. Worth another look, I'd guess, but lacking both video and TV (by choice) it's unlikely I will up here in the slightly-northern boonies. ======================================= "If I don't like it, I call it terrorism" General Alexander Haig ======================================= Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver B.C. Canada V6A 1Y7 voice 604 255 8274 fax 604 255 8204 quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca ======================================= -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Murat Nemet-Nejat Sent: 13-March-2004 10:21 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Jack Spicer/Philip Dick query (fwd) The German director Fassbinder's "Fear Eats the Soul," I think. It was years ago I saw it. Another absolutely frightening great movie whose title I do not remember, "Bad Day...." It has Spencer Tracy as a one-armed outsider coming by train to a town in the middle of the desert. Robert Ryan is the head of a gang in the town. The movie has the structure of a Western, but it is not. Tracy is in civilian black clothes, wounded in the Second World War. It is his civilian black suit which stir up suspicions first. Many westerns deal with the theme of the outsider coming to town -a recent example, Clint Eastwood's "The Unforgiven." Murat ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:55:09 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: more lyx In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" lyxening to the glistening sax "klezish" from "Into It [intuit] with Lyx Ish," a cd i picked up at the memorial celebration, compiled by dave ware. pixie-ish lyx winks impen from the front matter, blinks saxish on the cd, a whirling dysc lazer-lumined so's to break sound out all twinkly corruscating. lyx plays sax, drums, bass? glimmering into this life from the Other, still to enchant. -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 01:05:19 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: Jack Spicer/Philip Dick query (fwd) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Purported to be both JFK and Wilhelm Reich's favorite movie. Bad Day at Black Rock (1955) Spencer Tracy, Ernest Borgnine, Robert Ryan, Lee Marvin, Anne Francis and many others. Very sinister small town Black Rock, enter outsider Tracy who unclosets the skeletons. A terrific fight scene between one-armed Tracy and - I guess it was Borgnine who played the heavy but I seem to remember Mickey O'Shaughnessy as the loud-mouth heavy who lost. Haven't seen it since it came out in 55, but it's a movie that stuck in my young memory then and sticks in my older memory now, yes. Worth another look, I'd guess, but lacking both video and TV (by choice) it's unlikely I will up here in the slightly-northern boonies. ======================================= "If I don't like it, I call it terrorism" General Alexander Haig ======================================= Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver B.C. Canada V6A 1Y7 voice 604 255 8274 fax 604 255 8204 quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca ======================================= -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Murat Nemet-Nejat Sent: 13-March-2004 10:21 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Jack Spicer/Philip Dick query (fwd) The German director Fassbinder's "Fear Eats the Soul," I think. It was years ago I saw it. Another absolutely frightening great movie whose title I do not remember, "Bad Day...." It has Spencer Tracy as a one-armed outsider coming by train to a town in the middle of the desert. Robert Ryan is the head of a gang in the town. The movie has the structure of a Western, but it is not. Tracy is in civilian black clothes, wounded in the Second World War. It is his civilian black suit which stir up suspicions first. Many westerns deal with the theme of the outsider coming to town -a recent example, Clint Eastwood's "The Unforgiven." Murat _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:32:22 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Check out The Assassinated Press Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press Washington Post Demands Argentineans Starve In Order To Pay International Investors: Check Your Global Listings For IMF Economic Pogromming Near You Under 'The Washington Post---Capitalism's Debt Gestapo.': "Forrest Trump Going Chapter 11? That's Different. He's Our Be-atch Now More Than Ever," Quips David Rockefeller: Korean Chavez, Roh, Ousted; Class Warfare Or Yale Class Of '68?: Getting Home Delivery Of The Washington Post Is Like Discovering A Murder Weapon In Your Front Yard Every Morning.---Here Comes Everybody by Waldo Punkass The Anti-Empire Report, No. 8, March 10, 2004 by William Blum Getting Home Delivery Of The Washington Post Is Like Discovering A Murder Weapon In Your Front Yard Every Morning.---Here Comes Everybody US-Haiti by Noam Chomsky They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:47:28 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Luther versus Marx MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirby wrote: >>Why shouldn't we look to Locke, to Luther, for different models of society (after all, their models have produced America, and the Scandinavian states), and in terms of poetry -- what have Marxist poets (I think this is a contradiction in terms, but I'm not avese to those) produced?....Lutheran surrealism will offer a much more pampered situation for artists and poets.<< I would like to point out that Luther was a profound anti-Semite; so was Marx; and each of them had a vision of society that took as fundamental to its structure the validity and necessity of hating Jews. (Go look at Marx's "On The Jewish Question," and read Sander Gilman's treatment of it in Jewish Self-Hatred as a precursor to Marxism proper; it's interesting.) Now, I am more sympathetic to Marxism than I am to Lutheran Christianity, or to religion, really, of any sort, because Marxism, as I understand it-and I admit my understanding is shallow at best-is a much more flexible way of reading the world than religion tends to be, but I find it hard to trust any ideology that takes the hatred of any group as necessary and valid part of its own structure. (And I do take this same stance towards capitalist democracy and the way it has needed and nurtured racism, at least in the US, to fuel its growth.) This is not to say that the model of society offered by Luther might not indeed be preferable to the one offered by Marx, or vice versa; it is to say, however, that to take Luther or Marx or any other politician or artist or whatever as a model without also explicitly acknowledging and taking responsibility for the ways in which that model is racist or sexist or choose-your-"ist" is, on some level, to reproduce that "ism." I just think we need to be careful of that. Richard _____ Richard Newman Associate Professor, English Chair, International Studies Committee Nassau Community College One Education Drive Garden City, NY 11530 O: (516) 572-7612 F: (516) 572-8134 newmanr@ncc.edu www.ncc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:10:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the last 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII the last 2004 the weakened grasp of the world on the world the retreat from the world into speed-speed transcendence the retreat from the world into pseudo-worlds the prevalence of pseudo-worlds, semi-worlds, quasi-worlds the appearance of speed-speed ghosts everywhere the imminent destruction of the surface of the planet the imminent loss of faunal cultures the quantity information suppurating model of the earth the increasing violence of gangs and fundamentalisms the spread of local mafias, networked and universal the distribution of spoils, rule of viral thugs the rule of hungry ghosts, speed-speed wounded biomes the unhinged world in precession, dead eyes of the world the world of malignant cancers, world of dismemberments the plummeting of the world, planetary trashing the desecration and extinctions of environmental remnants the world ungrasped, speed-speed unhinged _ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:10:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: and We keep MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII and We keep and We keep above worldld cocodeine keeps headaches awayay cocontinuous life living plumsms ththe egyptian book deadad motor roared aroundnd sky stumbles its feetet sound motherboard seems disconnecteded world totoday found accomplishment and defuge the world greatly irreducible. and We keep both a sense of accomplishment and defuge the world suffer defuge and then it goes lackluster and the worlds are goes lackluster and the worlds are tarnished. and We keep a certain style and every organism is a world of miracles, and every creature dissolves in the disappear. look at the fury of the world around us. and We keep We keep the weakened grasp of the world on the world We keep the retreat from the world into speed-speed transcendence We keep the retreat from the world into pseudo-worlds We keep the prevalence of pseudo-worlds, semi-worlds, quasi-worlds We keep the unhinged world in precession, dead eyes of the world We keep the world of malignant cancers, world of dismemberments We keep the plummeting of the world, planetary trashing We keep the world ungrasped, speed-speed unhinged and We keep above our worldld and We keep above our worldld _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:29:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Deborah Subject: Re: and We keep dragons In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Other Answers, from the West Coast And happy for her. In -ess shapes, more sane than many. Although wonder in spectrum, how far is delighted from disturbed? In upstate New York, they slush. Not so often here. Here, we slouch. Curve under rain like foreign accents. Umlauts. Agues. And Graves. Watch for pterodactyl. Like tonight, crouching to complain. Knowing bird like girl leans to hear. She knows the questions the dragons bring now. Breathe fire. No need to ask how. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 9:11 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: and We keep and We keep and We keep above worldld cocodeine keeps headaches awayay cocontinuous life living plumsms ththe egyptian book deadad motor roared aroundnd sky stumbles its feetet sound motherboard seems disconnecteded world totoday found accomplishment and defuge the world greatly irreducible. and We keep both a sense of accomplishment and defuge the world suffer defuge and then it goes lackluster and the worlds are goes lackluster and the worlds are tarnished. and We keep a certain style and every organism is a world of miracles, and every creature dissolves in the disappear. look at the fury of the world around us. and We keep We keep the weakened grasp of the world on the world We keep the retreat from the world into speed-speed transcendence We keep the retreat from the world into pseudo-worlds We keep the prevalence of pseudo-worlds, semi-worlds, quasi-worlds We keep the unhinged world in precession, dead eyes of the world We keep the world of malignant cancers, world of dismemberments We keep the plummeting of the world, planetary trashing We keep the world ungrasped, speed-speed unhinged and We keep above our worldld and We keep above our worldld _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:17:39 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Faces of the fallen In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://transdada.blogspot.com/ Faces of the fallen Sunday, March 14, 2004 http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/03/14/ INGAV5CVPP1.DTL ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 09:07:49 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Follari Subject: for millie niss Comments: To: men2@columbia.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed hi Millie, how are you? sorry I haven't replied to your e-mails.By the way where do you live? I'm curious because if I come over to the USA we could meet up and go over some poetry. I'm a published writer of poetry and comedy.And I'm thinking of puting together a great new book of poems for 2004. Have you by chance seen any of my works on the EPC web site? You might remember the Sci Fi poem "Psi Light" which was a univocalic poem,meaning that it employed the use of only one vowel throughout the poem.I like these sorts of writings because they aren't common and can reveal some really interesting thought patterns. I'd like to see some more of your work Millie,can you send me some samples? Tony Follari Artist & Writer >From: Millie Niss on eathlink >Reply-To: Millie Niss on eathlink >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:54:14 -0500 > >I thought Berryman umped out a window, but I could be wrong. I'll check >the >biograaphy I have. > >Millie > >ObBerryman Poem: > > I've found out why, that day, that suicide > From the Empire State falling on someone's car > Troubled you so; and why we quarrelled. War, > Illness, an accident, I can see (you cried) > But not this: What a bastard, not spring wide! . . > I said a man, life in his teeth, could care > Not much just whom he spat it on. . and far > Beyond my laugh we argued either side. > > 'One has a right not to be fallen on! . .' > (Our second meeting. . yellow you were wearing.) > Voices of our resistance and desire! > Did I divine then I must shortly run > Crazy with need to fall on you, despairing? > Did you bolt so, before it caught, our fire? > >Interesting that he said "one has a right not to be fallen on." > >I did an essay on Suicide, Art, and Humor, using Berryman as my primary >example, which is on >http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/essays/essays.html > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Robert Corbett" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:54 AM >Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd > > > > didn't Berryman jump off a bridge? > > > > Mary Wollstonecraft jumped into the Thames I think twice, but > > unsuccessfully. Her daughter by Gilbert Imlay did so successfully. > > > > i don't know that this counts, but Percy Shelley took himself and a > > friend, Edward Williams, out in a boat on a clearly inclement day, and >his > > body later washed ashore. the legend has it that when the body was > > burned, the heart remained untouched. > > > > Robert > > > > -- > > Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, > > Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the > > B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the > > Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of > > Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop > > UW Box: 351237 > > > > On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Alan Sondheim wrote: > > > > > Don't forget my predecessor when I was teaching at University of > > > California, Irvine, Bas Jan Ader, who was teaching there and >disappeared > > > into the Pacific. - Alan > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, David Hadbawnik wrote: > > > > > > > I doubt if anyone on this list would've heard of > > > > him, but Stephen Tudor, my poetry mentor at Wayne > > > > State, disappeared while sailing by himself in one > > > > of the great lakes. It's unlikely that he "jumped > > > > ship," however; more probably an accident. Those > > > > waters get very rough. > > > > > > > > DH > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of > > > > cris cheek > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:38 AM > > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > > Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray Johnson > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Besides Hart Crane in 1932 returning from > > > > Mexico + Spalding this year > > > > >> -- > > > > >> what other literary characters have 'jumped > > > > ship' to meet an untimely > > > > >> demise? > > > > > > > > > > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko > > > http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt > > > Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > > > finger sondheim@panix.com > > > _________________________________________________________________ There’s never been a better time to get Xtra JetStream @ http://xtra.co.nz/jetstream ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 07:05:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: Corman recording MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Friends, There's a recording of Cid Corman reading, talking and answering questions here: http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~wh/corman.html The event (a live audiocast with Cid on the phone in Japan) took place on November 19, 2001. --Al Al Filreis Kelly Professor of English Faculty Director, the Kelly Writers House Director, the Center for Programs in Contemporary Writing University of Pennsylvania ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:45:46 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cyrill Duneau Subject: A poem for Bruce Nauman when he is dead Comments: To: "CYBERMIND@LISTSERV.AOL.COM" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A fatal exeption OE has occured at 0167:BFF9DFFF. The current application will be terminated. A fatal exeption OE has occured at 0167:BFF9DFFF. The current application will be terminated. A fatal exeption OE has occured at 0167:BFF9DFFF. The current application will be terminated. A fatal exeption OE has occured at 0167:BFF9DFFF. The current application will be terminated. A fatal exeption OE has occured at 0167:BFF9DFFF. The current application will be terminated. A fatal exeption OE has occured at 0167:BFF9DFFF. The current application will be terminated. A fatal exeption OE has occured at 0167:BFF9DFFF. The current application will be terminated. A fatal exeption OE has occured at 0167:BFF9DFFF. The current application will be terminated. A fatal exeption OE has occured at 0167:BFF9DFFF. The current application will be terminated. A fatal exeption OE has occured at 0167:BFF9DFFF. The current application will be terminated. A fatal exeption OE has occured at 0167:BFF9DFFF. The current application will be terminated. 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The current application will be terminated. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:42:23 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: New Origin Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Back from Kyoto--Chuck Sandy says that there will be issues of the New Origin on line at www.neworigin.com. There are also plans for a print version via Bob Arnold. Watch for it and subscription queries welcome. All good news. Cid had two issues ready to go before fate took him. A handful of people came to see Cid off. Had his funeral happened in Boston or San Francisco no doubt hundreds would have come. As it was, a sub-basement viewing room and a scratchy tape of Pachabel's Canon had to suffice. The casket was made of unvarnished wood with a white sheet covering half of it. One could see Cid's face through a window. Shizumi had put his glasses on him and he was wearing his favorite shirt and his beloved artist's beret. On the altar behind the casket were positioned a great beaming picture of Cid, looking happy, and well--Cid-like--and a couple of electric Christmas candles. A stand was placed in front of the casket where one stick of incense burned in a brazier. Steel folding chairs were lined up on either side. When viewing time was over, the casket was opened and everyone placed sprigs of flowers inside. The funeral procession--all two cars of it--wound up a small mountain, where the crematorium was located. We were ushered into a hall with yet another altar. Cid's casket was sitting high up on a metal gurney behind the altar. A lady monk (bald head smooth as a baby's cheek) came to say one short sutra for Cid, then we filed around the back of the altar to see Cid's face one last time. Then a man dressed in a police-type uniform and wearing white gloves took Cid's casket into a long hall with various metal doors in the wall and maneuvered the casket up to the door marked Ko-RU-MAN-SAN, tripped a switch and the door opened. Everyone said one last farewell, bowed and prayed as the coffin was deposited onto a metal track and the steel doors closed behind it. We were all directed into a pleasant waiting hall where we enjoyed tea and small talk for about 50 minutes. Our lady guide then took us into another building where Cid's bones and ashes awaited us on a metal table. Each one of us, beginning with Shizumi, took chopsticks and selected a bone and placed it into a ceramic container. We started with Cid's feet, then his head area, then his chest. The special throat or buddha bone had been removed ahead of time. After all of us did this, the funeral guide described the significance of the buddha bone to us, pointing out buddha's head, shoulders, etc. I couldn't help wondering what Cid would have made of all of this, but it clearly helped the family come to grips with the finality of Cid's end. And that was the funeral. Dust to dust and ashes to ashes. I talked with Chuck about the idea of a special memorial reading for Cid in the U.S., so that all of Cid's friends could come together to celebrate his life and works. More information on that in future. Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 14:54:07 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cyrill Duneau Subject: let me know Comments: To: "CYBERMIND@LISTSERV.AOL.COM" , Situationist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit uncomprehensible bullshit-dictionary-overlooked-words-and-syntax-so-called- poetry uncomprehensible bullshit-dictionary-overlooked-words-and-syntax-so-called- poetry uncomprehensible bullshit-dictionary-overlooked-words-and-syntax-so-called- poetry uncomprehensible bullshit-dictionary-overlooked-words-and-syntax-so-called- poetry uncomprehensible bullshit-dictionary-overlooked-words-and-syntax-so-called- poetry there was blood, semen, and body parts everywhere These are real people limitation crack dealers disturbingly voyeuristic nature of this type into the black heart sitting in the dark matrixial time I and non-I empathy with the pain of the other n=8 using an algorithm called backtracking kinematografij one quarter of a non-monolithic kilobyte SUCH POSTS WILL NOT BE CENSORED imitation conventional concepts in Berlin inflicting pain and agression fotografski (Even though 'meanings' do play a role they play a limited role) that was the funeral *** Command error at or near line 2 *** *** No commands were processed the Yes I am 18 years old box) **REMEMBER ((ugh) & with all eyes upon mee (=all seeing let me know who I am let me know who I am let me know who I am epidemiologic evidence of driving force behind every bit of bizarre cultural morphing Hvala za prijavo Why can't the United States and other countries do the same?* ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:30:28 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: New Origin In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I think poetix has developed a new genre in the last week or so: the poet-memorial review. slightly different from the poet-obit folks send on occasion. At 1:42 PM +0000 3/14/04, Jesse Glass wrote: >Back from Kyoto--Chuck Sandy says that there will be issues of the New >Origin on line at www.neworigin.com. There are also plans for a print >version via Bob Arnold. Watch for it and subscription queries welcome. All >good news. Cid had two issues ready to go before fate took him. > >A handful of people came to see Cid off. Had his funeral happened in >Boston or San Francisco no doubt hundreds would have come. As it was, a >sub-basement viewing room and a scratchy tape of Pachabel's Canon had to >suffice. > >The casket was made of unvarnished wood with a white sheet covering half of >it. One could see Cid's face through a window. Shizumi had put his >glasses on him and he was wearing his favorite shirt and his beloved >artist's beret. On the altar behind the casket were positioned a great >beaming picture of Cid, looking happy, and well--Cid-like--and a couple of >electric Christmas candles. A stand was placed in front of the casket >where one stick of incense burned in a brazier. > >Steel folding chairs were lined up on either side. > >When viewing time was over, the casket was opened and everyone placed >sprigs of flowers inside. > >The funeral procession--all two cars of it--wound up a small mountain, >where the crematorium was located. We were ushered into a hall with yet >another altar. Cid's casket was sitting high up on a metal gurney behind >the altar. A lady monk (bald head smooth as a baby's cheek) came to say >one short sutra for Cid, then we filed around the back of the altar to see >Cid's face one last time. Then a man dressed in a police-type uniform and >wearing white gloves took Cid's casket into a long hall with various metal >doors in the wall and maneuvered the casket up to the door marked >Ko-RU-MAN-SAN, tripped a switch and the door opened. Everyone said one >last farewell, bowed and prayed as the coffin was deposited onto a metal >track and the steel doors closed behind it. > >We were all directed into a pleasant waiting hall where we enjoyed tea and >small talk for about 50 minutes. Our lady guide then took us into another >building where Cid's bones and ashes awaited us on a metal table. Each one >of us, beginning with Shizumi, took chopsticks and selected a bone and >placed it into a ceramic container. We started with Cid's feet, then his >head area, then his chest. The special throat or buddha bone had been >removed ahead of time. After all of us did this, the funeral guide >described the significance of the buddha bone to us, pointing out buddha's >head, shoulders, etc. > >I couldn't help wondering what Cid would have made of all of this, but it >clearly helped the family come to grips with the finality of Cid's end. > >And that was the funeral. Dust to dust and ashes to ashes. > >I talked with Chuck about the idea of a special memorial reading for Cid in >the U.S., so that all of Cid's friends could come together to celebrate his >life and works. More information on that in future. > >Jesse -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 09:43:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Poems by others: William Bronk, "The Arts and Death: A Fugue for Sidney Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Arts and Death: A Fugue for Sidney Cox I think always how we always miss it. Not anything is ever entirely true. Death dominates my mind. I Do not stop thinking how time will stop. How time has stopped, does stop. Those dead-- their done time. Time does us in. Mark how we make music, images, how we term words, name names, how, having named, assume the named begins here, stops there, add this attribute, subtract this other: here the mold begins to harden. This toy soldier has edges, can be painted, picked up, moved from place to place, used to mean one or many. Within the game we play, we understand. See his leaden gun or saber, how deadly for aid or for destruction as we aim him, and he is bold, a game soldier. We play games however serious we aim to be. A true aim, a toy soldier, I think always, how we always miss the aim. Ponder the vast debris of the dead, the great uncounted numbers, the long, the endless list of only their names, if anyone knew their names. Joined to the dead already, to those known who have died already, are we not also joined to many we would have known in their time-- to one in Ilium, say, who thought of the dead? In the world's long continuum, it is not the names of the dead, but the dead themselves who are like names, like terms, toy soldiers, words. I think always how we always miss it; how the dead have not been final, and life has always required to be stated again, which is not ever stated. It is not art's statements only, not what we try to say by music, not the way this picture sculptures sight itself to see this picture--not by art alone the aim is missed, and even least of all by art (which tries a whole world at once, a composition). No, it is in our terms, the terms themselves, which break apart, divide, discriminate, set chasms in that wide, unbroken experience of the senses which goes on and on, that radiation inward and out, that consciousness which we divide, compare, compose, make things and persons of, make forms, make I and you. World, world, I am scared and waver in awe before the wilderness of raw consciousness, because it is all dark and formlessness: and it is real this passion that we feel for forms. But the forms are never real. Are not really there. Are not. I think always how we always miss the real. There still are wars though all the soldiers fall. We live in a world we never understand. Our lives end nothing. Oh there is never an end. --William Bronk fr. *Origin* XIX / Summer 1956; ed. Cid Corman in *The Gist of Origin* ed. Cid Corman [New York: Grossman Publishers, 1975] Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:56:30 -0500 Reply-To: Millie Niss on eathlink Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss on eathlink Subject: Re: for millie niss MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am put off by this. Tony sent me this email backchannel, as well as posting on the list. I didn't to my knowledge, ever email Tony Follari. Secondly, I searched for him on EPC, and he does not appear to be on the site anywhere. Third, I googled him and found a posting of his on "Hitler Humor" which was decidely not funny. Thus, I am rather frightened of this person (it seems like electronioc stalking), and I am happy that he seems to be safely ensconced in New Zealand. In any case, he seems not to be who he says he is. Please forgive me if I actually have written to Tony (though I think I'd remember). I don't intend to flame him, but I fear he may be stalking others, thus a warning needs to be posted. Millie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Follari" To: Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 4:07 AM Subject: for millie niss > hi Millie, > how are you? sorry I haven't replied to your e-mails.By the way > where do you live? > I'm curious because if I come over to the USA we could meet up and go over > some poetry. > I'm a published writer of poetry and comedy.And I'm thinking of puting > together a great new book of poems for 2004. Have you by chance seen any of > my works on the EPC web site? > You might remember the Sci Fi poem "Psi Light" which was a univocalic > poem,meaning that it > employed the use of only one vowel throughout the poem.I like these sorts of > writings because > they aren't common and can reveal some really interesting thought patterns. > I'd like to see some more of your work Millie,can you send me some samples? > > > > Tony Follari Artist & Writer > > > >From: Millie Niss on eathlink > >Reply-To: Millie Niss on eathlink > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd > >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:54:14 -0500 > > > >I thought Berryman umped out a window, but I could be wrong. I'll check > >the > >biograaphy I have. > > > >Millie > > > >ObBerryman Poem: > > > > I've found out why, that day, that suicide > > From the Empire State falling on someone's car > > Troubled you so; and why we quarrelled. War, > > Illness, an accident, I can see (you cried) > > But not this: What a bastard, not spring wide! . . > > I said a man, life in his teeth, could care > > Not much just whom he spat it on. . and far > > Beyond my laugh we argued either side. > > > > 'One has a right not to be fallen on! . .' > > (Our second meeting. . yellow you were wearing.) > > Voices of our resistance and desire! > > Did I divine then I must shortly run > > Crazy with need to fall on you, despairing? > > Did you bolt so, before it caught, our fire? > > > >Interesting that he said "one has a right not to be fallen on." > > > >I did an essay on Suicide, Art, and Humor, using Berryman as my primary > >example, which is on > >http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/essays/essays.html > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Robert Corbett" > >To: > >Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:54 AM > >Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd > > > > > > > didn't Berryman jump off a bridge? > > > > > > Mary Wollstonecraft jumped into the Thames I think twice, but > > > unsuccessfully. Her daughter by Gilbert Imlay did so successfully. > > > > > > i don't know that this counts, but Percy Shelley took himself and a > > > friend, Edward Williams, out in a boat on a clearly inclement day, and > >his > > > body later washed ashore. the legend has it that when the body was > > > burned, the heart remained untouched. > > > > > > Robert > > > > > > -- > > > Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, > > > Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the > > > B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the > > > Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of > > > Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop > > > UW Box: 351237 > > > > > > On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Alan Sondheim wrote: > > > > > > > Don't forget my predecessor when I was teaching at University of > > > > California, Irvine, Bas Jan Ader, who was teaching there and > >disappeared > > > > into the Pacific. - Alan > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, David Hadbawnik wrote: > > > > > > > > > I doubt if anyone on this list would've heard of > > > > > him, but Stephen Tudor, my poetry mentor at Wayne > > > > > State, disappeared while sailing by himself in one > > > > > of the great lakes. It's unlikely that he "jumped > > > > > ship," however; more probably an accident. Those > > > > > waters get very rough. > > > > > > > > > > DH > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > > > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of > > > > > cris cheek > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:38 AM > > > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > > > Subject: Re: Gray's Body ID'd > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray Johnson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Besides Hart Crane in 1932 returning from > > > > > Mexico + Spalding this year > > > > > >> -- > > > > > >> what other literary characters have 'jumped > > > > > ship' to meet an untimely > > > > > >> demise? > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko > > > > http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt > > > > Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > > > > finger sondheim@panix.com > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > There's never been a better time to get Xtra JetStream @ > http://xtra.co.nz/jetstream ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:15:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Deborah Subject: Re: and We keep dragons In-Reply-To: <002701c40985$574ef830$9fa01118@poedic7646qfpt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My apologies for a premature introduc(ula)tion--last night's post was intended as a forward to a friend, not a reply to the listserv. Best lurking for now, Deborah Poe ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 11:23:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: Maria Damon From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Fwd: Cid Corman piece as from Bruce Sylvester to Marie Stilkind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; FORMAT=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >From: John Landry >Subject: Cid Corman piece as from Bruce Sylvester to Marie Stilkind >To: friends: > >Poetry magazine, October 1952 > >communication: poetry for radio > >by Cid Corman >What few poets seem to realize is that radio is their best potential outlet >these days. It puts the stress rightly on the spoken word, tests the >imagination of writer and listener spoken revives the need of the >oral-aural commitment in verse, and permits the largest possible audience >to experience the poem. > >As a rare diet, of course, it undermines itself. But there is no reason >today, under sincere and determined effort, that good poetry programs >should not be available throughout the country. They con be noncommercial >sustaining programs, like This Is poetry > >Nearly three years ago I initiated my weekly broadcasts, known as This Is >Poetry, from WMEX (1510 kc.) in Boston. The program has been usually a >fifteen-minute reading of modern verse on Saturday evenings at seventhirty; >however, I have taken some liberties and have read from Moby Dick and from >stories by Dylan Thhomas Robert Creeley, and Joyce. > >In the approximately 150 programs to date, during which I have had the >opportunity to improve my delivery and to appreciate oral detail, I have >offered the program to man guest poets, to read and discuss their work. >About a third of the programs have been of this kind. My guests have >included such writers as John Crowe Ransom, Archibald MacLeish, Stephen >Spender, John Ciardi, Theodore Roethke, Pierre Emmanuel, Allan Curnow, >Richard Wilbur, Richard Eberbart, Katherine Hoskins, and Vincent Ferrini. A >number of the programs have been bilingual, in English and French, Spanish, >German, or Italian. I have had young but highly qualified persons, native >to the tongues, read the originals against my reading of tr anslations. >Programs have been given to Corbiere, Eluard, Lorca, Ungaretti, Benn, and >others. Imagine hearing Claudio Guillen, son of Jorge Guillen, read a poem >that Lorca wrote for him when lie was a child in Spain.... > >There has been no attempt, on the program or for that matter in groups, to >make the poetry "easy," to take the bones out of it. I try to make my >comments short and to the point, enthusiasm often being the most pointed of >all commmentary. No program is rehearsed. Of course, the poetry is. It is >amazing, too, to me, how much comes clear in the final delivery, that >necessary interpretation of the whole and its nuances, that is otherwise >often overlooked. Comments are improvised. I follow the advice of Marianne >Moore, who wisely wrote me when I first started and asked her counsel: "Be >spontaneous, above all." > >The venture is not a commercial one, and I have had intention of sounding >at any time like a professional announcer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Outside of a dog a book is a man's best friend. >Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. > (Groucho Marx) -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 09:24:27 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: SAY 'NO' TO MARRIAGE DISCRIMINATION IN THE CONSTITUTION! In-Reply-To: <000201c409df$a3d4b640$9fa01118@poedic7646qfpt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit please forward! SAY 'NO' TO MARRIAGE DISCRIMINATION IN THE CONSTITUTION! We cannot stand by idly while our opponents attempt to permanently exclude lesbians and gays from the right to marry. It's time to send a message to Congress in support of same-sex marriage. Take action now! http://www.capwiz.com/now/home/ http://transdada.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:46:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: ** Boog City Needs East Village Editor ** In-Reply-To: <72504B1B-75DC-11D8-BF0D-003065AC6058@sonic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Please forward to those you think might be interested in this position ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi all, I'm looking for someone in the five boroughs of New York City who'd like to be the new East Village editor of Boog City. The editor would be responsible for getting 1-2 pages per month filled with community news and features, including stories on neighborhood personalities, local political disputes, and trends. In general, all things local that don't fall under the scope of our music, printed matter, or small press editors. But if there's an interesting new record label based in the East Village, the East Village editor would work together with the music editor to find someone to write about the label. This person would also play a large part in our coverage of the Republican National Convention this coming summer. The East Village editor need not write any of the stories but may write some if so desired. Please backchannel to editor@boogcity.com if you are interested. thanks, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 www.boogcity.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:14:53 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: DR. BLOGGER; OR HOW I STOPPED HATING, AND LEARNED TO LOVE, THE POETRY BLOG Comments: To: WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii forthcoming--mute magazineDR. BLOGGER; OR HOW I STOPPED HATING, AND LEARNED TO LOVE, THE POETRY BLOG Subverting the Cybersnobs I know HTML, JavaScript, PHP, and some Perl. I've worked with MySQL databases and undocumented features of Macromedia Flash. I know the difference between headers and cookies. And on certain feverish nights I've dreamed in code. That's why when Brandon Barr, webmaster of the texturl web log and co-coordinator of the banner art site, first told me just how popular these web logs ("blogs" for short) were becoming, I scoffed. And why my initial disdain for the form deepened when I noted just how popular blogs were becoming with poets. It all just seemed too simple for me. As an artist whose primary interest was the intersection of computer science and literature, the Blogger phenomenon, wherein any poet could publish to the web with minimal or no knowledge at all of HTML, seemed beside the point. Where was the rich interweaving of multimedia and reactivity that is so alluring in digital poetics and net.art? Any cursory look at poets' blogs will reveal that the only things that break with literature's tradition of monolithic, static text there are links and images, all too often pointing only to other poets' blogs. From a distance, it looked like just another way for the old boys' network of contemporary American poetics to co-opt the growing migration of literature from page to file, and to enjoy an aura of innovation that few of them had earned. All of this, of course, was before I got a blog. Now, at this point one may ask: if you had such a dim view of blogs, Mr. LaCook, why did you feel the need to have one yourself? After all, you know HTML, JavaScript, PHP and some Perl. You've worked with databases. Heck, you could even write your own version of Blogger, the wildly popular online blog publishing system. With all of this in your repertoire, why would you start a blog, and on Blogger none-the-less? Well, be patient. This is a love story, but not one about love at first site...er, sight. Subject, Blog, Object I started the Stamen Pistol blog in September of 2003. I'd been poring over numerous poets' blogs on the Net, from Nada Gordon's stellar poem blog prrrrowess (unfortunately, abandoned since August 2003) to Eileen Tabios' Love's Last Gasps, and I decided that I liked the easy access blogs provided to poetry by writers I liked. Sometimes, I just want to read. It's that simple urge to read that blogs satisfy for me. Yes, as an artist, I love using the Net as a medium--dynamic text that assembles itself anew every session based on random processes and/or user input thrills me (and perhaps someday soon I will write a blog whose entries are entirely dynamic) but even I began my artistic life in an offline medium: writing itself. Before I first logged on, I was a poet, and, egocentric as it seems at first blush, text generated by individual human beings, one word at a time, is still quite often damned interesting reading. Stamen Pistol is a group poetry blog whose member list grows monthly. Originally, the blog's contributors included myself, Sheila E. Murphy and Allen Bramhall; as of today, blog members also include Cyril Donnelly, Lendon Heide, Mez, and Daniel Carter. There are some members who don't post (Nada Gordon is one, and Nick Piombino, whose own blog fait accompli is perhaps the second most well-known poet's blog out there, next to Ron Silliman's). All members have administrative privileges; they can edit or delete posts at will, not only their own (it doesn't happen very often, but the option is there). At this point the membership list is exactly the sort of mix of well-known contemporary poets (Sheila Murphy's work has appeared just about everywhere one finds poetry, and she is arguably one of the most influential poets writing today; Allen Bramhall co-edits Potes and Poets Press; Mez is the legendary net.artist and codeworker whose work has helped shape the experience of languag e online) and newcomers (Lendon Heide, I don't believe, knew what a blog was until I showed her Stamen Pistol) that weaves the kind of textual pastiche I most love. Today's front page looks something like this: 3.13.2004 I forgot the travel of your gunk! sorry! Posted by: Allen / 2:12 PM n inward stroke—urgency to such a degree overwhelm with water—of equal tension certainly used to express surprise as a mild oath a Medal has been awarded an extremely successful performer having no news resembling a nerve to make a shallow cut in a fist or hand resembling snow a period from sunset to sunrise one that is not equal inferior music foreign material in the body a nocturne projecting edge the last extremity unusually thick, an electric game one that pierces a small flattened Body envelops the lungs examine for error located near the point of origin something owned—of proxy full of puddles in a whining matter to blow in short gusts any [and] of various globular engines living in waterlogged sands the act of purifying one Posted by: Lendon / 10:38 AM the other reader behide clothes doors interrupturations of dreamstreams dictionary of the underword touch ever so s/lightly slidely easy spy she swear in search of the orientational thugsmanly elected chill-factor tensional dissonance wear the longer-toned reception white openly radical in deed she square her circlecycle the bounce of power more quiet more still the featherglyphed reduce art disease in the deaths of their other: a period without parallel the two adhere one atop the other but with an interval of separate distance in the depths of their other weapons of mass discussion perpetually in the mood t' glisten in a brain forest bled t' the fall Posted by: Daniel / 3:06 AM 3.11.2004 I had for- gotten she lacks depth and brushed off the im- pulse to be- gin a conversation when I recalled she thought in surfaces from which crumbs are brushed a- way and one recovers or prays for a return to sane clean days that link to sane clean days Posted by: Sheila / 10:01 AM This snippet (which will change overnight, as members add poems or build poems from poems already posted) illustrates the basic blog format: time stamped entries ordered by date, the most recent entries appearing at the very top of the page. This form lends itself well to archiving. What separates the blog most from the printed book or chapbook of poems is just this sort of reliance on a database structure, as opposed to the more narrative approach print implies. Any book of poems in which each individual piece is quite intentionally where it is lives fully within a narrative structure, even if no explicit narrative is visible. The sequence of poems on a poem blog, however, is determined programmatically, impersonally; it's a simple call to a database, in which tables of data are ordered in a reverse chronology and formatted in a friendly way. This might be why the first poets to take to the blog form in a big way were L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E and post-L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E writers. One of the most significant breaks with tradition these poets enacted was a willingness to experiment with "new" ordering principles within the poem; unity of voice was something to play with, as well as linear monological structure and the concept of closure; many of these works read like lists of linguistic or sensory phenomena. Some are aware of the debt they owe in this to earlier American poets who also challenged form: read a poem by Whitman and one senses alternative methods of organization just on the horizon. What it is, what it was, what it could be Blogs use database logic because blogs are database logic. In their original incarnation, a web blog was in essence a links page--a common grotto in the sites of today, but blogs sought to deliberately filter the dizzying morass of information available on the Net via daily or semi-daily updates. Commentary was often included, helping to further mediate the cacophony of sites. The Net user could look at a blog and get a different take on news events of the day; blogs shone light into often little-traversed corners, gleaning tidbits that might interest their readers. Of course, today's blog is more commentary than link list, and the form has become a sort of public diary for many users. LiveJournal , Blogger's only serious competition, built this aspect of blogging directly into its name. Something else that happened in the evolution of blogs was the diminishing need to know HTML. Before Blogger and LiveJournal provided users with friendly GUIs for online publishing, bloggers had to know HTML in order to construct their spaces. Both Blogger and LiveJournal have eliminated that need; both provide a simple textfield, with some buttons to automate link creation and other HTML mark-up capabilities, as the conduit to fast web publishing. The skill set needed to publish a blog is relatively sparse. You have to be able to navigate to the editing page, and be able to type. So while data dandies like myself may initially scoff at the simplicity of blogging, there's really something quite profound in the fact that one doesn't need heaps of knowledge to have a blog. Finally, public expression is available to anyone who can use language and has access to a computer. While in the Nineties the Net seemed to promise liberation in the form of home pages, we now have the blog, and the swiftness and ubiquity of blogging point to a utopian phase of human life wherein everyone can have their say, and everyone can be an author. It's an exciting phase, to be sure. When the second Gulf War broke out, many turned to the Salam Pax/Raed blog to find out just what was happening in Iraq through the eyes of an Iraqi. There have been some doubts as to the authenticity of the blog (we never know just precisely where anything is coming from on the Net, do we?), but the blog did play an integral part in the anti-war push here in the U.S. and in Great Britain. Raed showed us the human face of our own colonial urge. And that's what blogs do. They humanize the Net. Sure, net.art and digital poetics may be forging new forms with their interweaving of aesthetics and computer science, but blogs are the intimate spaces where humanity truly speaks through the bytes. linksten blogs to start with As-Is: Group Poetry Blog founded by Andrew Lundwall and Clayton Couch: http://as-is.blogspot.com/ My Angie Dickinson: Michael Magee's serial poem in progress:http://myangiedickinson.blogspot.com/ A Million Poems (Jordan Davis):http://millionpoems.blogspot.com/ Jimpunk's group net.art blog: http://544x378.free.fr/(WebTV)/ The Well-Nourished Moon(Stephanie Young):http://stephanieyoung.durationpress.com/ Mez: http://www.livejournal.com/users/netwurker/ K. Silem Mohammad's lime tree: http://limetree.ksilem.com/ Language Hat: http://www.languagehat.com/ Word Placements (Clayton Couch): http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ecacpublicjournal/ P-Ramblings (William Allegrezza): http://allegrezza.blogspot.com/ *************************************************************************** This is as useful as a doll.--Gertrude Stein http://www.lewislacook.com/ Stamen Pistol: http://stamenpistol.blogspot.com/ Poem of the Day: http://www.lewislacook.com/POD Sidereality: http://www.sidereality.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:26:11 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: The 'M' word: a response MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Taylor, Alan, and Jesse (I think the name was?) These are good enough responses for now. I like wiggle room, and that's where you got my interest. Wiggle room. A bit of independence. Your sophisticated take on determines and conditions may well allow Some of that. I haven't got a lot of time to write today. I imagine that Marx is more anti-Semitic than Luther, but I am not sure how such things are quantified. Luther loved Jews, and talks about them in a positive sense in many different places in Table Talks -- however, there was a price on Luther's head (set by the Catholic church) and toward the end of his life Luther got wind that there was a Jewish conspiracy against him. He let go with some vehement blasts. But this was a matter of context, and isn't integral to his thought. It's not clear that the plot was real. Luther was delusionary in his final years. In his youth and middle age he frequently cites the Old Testament and loved King David, and says, "What a people!" All this in a positive sense. So again, wiggle room. In a letter to Engels Marx wrote about the theorist Lasalle that "he has the dirty blood of a negro Jew." And yet he is somehow the foundation stone of multiculturalism. Ironic, I think. I have to run out of here, but will try to reply at further length later. I've read most of the texts Alan names, but I'm no specialist. I tend to prefer to deal at length with humorous writings, and only read the theory because I have to. Do like Fourier, of course, for the humor. And to some extent writers such as Max Stirner. I find a lot of Marxist theory to be completely humorless, and this is a real problem for me. There's another problem when theory becomes completely silly, as it often does in Zizek, for instance, but I prefer that problem. At any rate, if Lutheran surrealism isn't kosher, we can always try Pentecostal surrealism. Speaking in tongues is something that poets and Pentecostals share in common. Maybe that's next? I'll ponder it. -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 03:38:47 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: march 19/20/21 NYC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Hi All: I'm going to be in NYC this fri-sat-sun. Please, if possible, send me a list of readings or events. Anyone who wants to meet up with me or the furniture pres crew just say something. Thankee, Chris -- _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 14:39:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: The 'M' word: a response Comments: To: Kirby Olson In-Reply-To: <4054A3C3.D327D271@delhi.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII But why bring Christianity into it at all? Any sort of monotheism is going to have problems, and Christianity for me is a foreign territory. I've read - years ago admittedly - some of Luther's tracts, by the way, and they were violently anti-semitic; there's no excuse, and they caused enormous damage. As far as Marx goes, you might as well look at Gilman's book on Jewish Self-Hatred and it may give you a different viewpoint. I don't think you understand this issue at all, unfortunately - - Alan http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm finger sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:19:29 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Bechtel Subject: Re: The 'M' word: a response MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not only that, but Ashcroft is also a Pentecostal. What a unifying movement this could be ... -Brent ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirby Olson" To: Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 12:26 PM Subject: Re: The 'M' word: a response > At any rate, if Lutheran surrealism isn't kosher, we can always try > Pentecostal surrealism. Speaking in tongues is something that poets and > Pentecostals share in common. Maybe that's next? I'll ponder it. > > -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 16:30:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: The 'M' word: a response In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > you might as well look at Gilman's >book on Jewish Self-Hatred and it may give you a different viewpoint. Every time I have seen that term used it has referred to the words of a Jewish person who suggests that some things can be improved in a Jewish community. gb -- George Bowering Misses Kellogg's Krumbles 303 Fielden Ave. Port Colborne. ON, L3K 4T5 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:30:38 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ela kotkowska Subject: march in NYC (another RE: quest) In-Reply-To: <20040314193847.D45B521B32F@ws5-6.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit along those lines: I'm going to NYC the weekend of March 25-(26)-27-28 (while most of you are awping in chicago). A blisting of events would be helpfool. & company would be nice, two. (confession: i've never been to nyc before.) bestest, ela kotkowska ela@northwestern.edu (use the back door or the poetic front porch) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:30:24 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larry Sawyer & Lina ramona Subject: Re: Cid Corman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cid Corman offered advice and a kind word freely over the years. I've = put up a short page of the various poems we published in milk magazine = by Cid, along with the last short letter and poems I received from = him--just days before I learned of his illness. He was a publisher of = monumental importance and a prolific poet of wisdom, candor, and = integrity.=20 --Larry Sawyer http://www.milkmag.org/Cormanpage.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 16:51:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: March in NYC, rdgs for Ela and Chris In-Reply-To: <200403142130.i2ELUkmA009908@merle.it.northwestern.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Ela, Chris, and everyone else, the best resource for all this information is www.poetz.com/calendar, it's put together by Jackie Sheeler and is beyond thorough. Jackie let us here at Boog City use her info (which we then supplemented a bit) for our own New York City Poetry Calendar, sponsored by Bob Holman and the Bowery Poetry Club. If you're a planner like I am, you'll wanna go online and plan ahead. If you wanna physical rundown, grab the March Boog City whilst downtown, and stuff it in yr bag and go. that said, some quick picks on the rdgs during your two separate stays: the two big wknd series in nyc are the segue series, which are held saturday's at 4 p.m. at the Bowery Poetry Club, 308 Bowery at Bleecker, and the zinc bar series, sunday's at 7 p.m. at the zinc bar, 90 W. houston st. (off laguardia) Segue Sat. 4/20--Anselm Berrigan and Abigail Child Sat. 4/27--Steven Roderfer and Nada Gordon Zinc Sun. 4/21--Mark Salerno and Macgregor Card Sun. 4/28--Jim Behrle and Jen Benka If you wanna read while you're in town, there are a slew of open mics (again on either poetz.com or backcover of boog city). My fave among them is the "Our Unorganized Reading" at ABC No Rio, 156 Rivington St., where there are no lists, to time limits, and, as they put it, "no bullshit." It's a pretty warm space. Other ones i'd check out: Fri. 3/19, 5 p.m., BowPoClub--Douglas Rothschild's Poetry Game Show Fri. 3/19 and 3/26, 10 p.m., Nuyorican Poets Cafe, 236 E.3rd St. (bet. b & C)--feature poet (19th Eve Packer, 26th TBA), followed by slam, and then midnight open mic Thurs. 3/25--7 p.m., Urbana Poetry Slam at BowPoClub (run by the National Slam Poetry champs) and i'm always game for hooking up with visitors and showing them my city. use this here email or the below #. as ever, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 www.boogcity.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:24:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: a Marxian model of the social in poetry MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Taylor, Joe, Alan, Rodrigo, and anybody interested in the history and idea of the model of a Marxian social in poetry -- You might be interested in an essay I have coming out in _XCP: Cross Cultural Poetics_ #14: "After 1923: 'The Social Command'." I argue that it is only after the Russian Revolution via this slogan - the social command - that a Marxian model of the social becomes explicitly modified for literary ends by poets; "social command" is the ur instantiation of social formalism in the revolutionary 20th century. The other year I posted on this listserv a translation of a 1973 French text about this term. In the essay, I trace it from Mayakovsky and Brik through and beyond Watten, and examine what it opens up for it to have currency today. There are many different models of the social in poetry. The one contemporary to Marx's that any teacher must implicitly wrestle with, even today, is Matthew Arnold's. Louis ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:36:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: march in NYC (another RE: quest) In-Reply-To: <200403142130.i2ELUkmA009908@merle.it.northwestern.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Best free things to do in NY--a. walk as much as possible b. take the staten island ferry. At the Met if you read the fine print you'll notice (but no one does) that you have to pay something for admission, but not the what is it now 12 dollars they ask for. I usually flip them a quarter. Nobody cares. Mark At 03:30 PM 3/14/2004 -0600, ela kotkowska wrote: >along those lines: > >I'm going to NYC the weekend of March 25-(26)-27-28 (while most of you are >awping in chicago). A blisting of events would be helpfool. & company would >be nice, two. > >(confession: i've never been to nyc before.) > >bestest, > >ela kotkowska >ela@northwestern.edu (use the back door or the poetic front porch) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:10:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU Subject: Re: a Marxian model of the social in poetry Comments: To: Louis Cabri In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Louis, Can't wait to read your article! May I also suggest that in addition to Marx and Arnold there is another heavyweight one must wrestle with in this venue - namely, Emerson, who, as I argue in my new book Emancipating Pragmatism, verifiably invented the notion of "symbolic action" that Kenneth Burke later puts to such good use, and who in his own day caused Matthew Arnold not a little anxiety on the subject (read "To a Republican Friend," Arnold's brilliant but insipidly conservative poem addressed to Emerson-devotee Arthur Hugh Clough, ca. 1849). -m. Quoting Louis Cabri : > Taylor, Joe, Alan, Rodrigo, and anybody interested in the history and idea > of the model of a Marxian social in poetry -- > > You might be interested in an essay I have coming out in _XCP: Cross > Cultural Poetics_ #14: "After 1923: 'The Social Command'." I argue that it > is only after the Russian Revolution via this slogan - the social command - > that a Marxian model of the social becomes explicitly modified for literary > ends by poets; "social command" is the ur instantiation of social formalism > in the revolutionary 20th century. The other year I posted on this listserv > a translation of a 1973 French text about this term. In the essay, I trace > it from Mayakovsky and Brik through and beyond Watten, and examine what it > opens up for it to have currency today. > > There are many different models of the social in poetry. The one > contemporary to Marx's that any teacher must implicitly wrestle with, even > today, is Matthew Arnold's. > > Louis > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 00:17:01 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Trevor Joyce Subject: New run of Offsets: online collaboration project Comments: To: "Factor X"@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" [Apologies for cross-posting] For anyone who's interested, there's a new run of Offsets, with slightly modified rules, just started at: http://www.soundeye.org/offsets Completes Thursday night next. Best, Trevor -- ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.soundeye.org/trevorjoyce ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:06:19 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Jewish Self-Hatred In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The full title of Gilman's book is Jewish Self-Hatred: Anti-Semitism and the Hidden Language of the Jews, and it is a book, actually, that I think people on this list might be very interested in because at its heart is an examination of the anti-Semitic canard of the Jews' secret language and how that canard effected Jews throughout history, starting with the problem of identity faced by medieval Jewish converts to Christianity. The book is a wonderful investigation of: the relationship between language and identity, language and the center/margin(s) of a culture and more. One aspect of the book that I think would interest people on this list, given the very passionate investments that writers, perhaps especially poets, often have in supporting/being a part of particular schools of writing as opposed to others, is the way Gilman analyzes the relationship in anti-Semitic thought between the idea of the hidden language of the Jews and journalism, which was for a long time understood in Europe to be a quintessentially Jewish and therefore by definition impoverished form of expression. (I must confess that I do not remember the book well enough to say much more than that; my own research right now concerns what Gilman has to say about stuff that went on in the Middle Ages and so that's where my attention is focused.) Another thing Gilman does, apropos of George Bowering's point--"Every time I have seen that term used it has referred to the words of a Jewish person who suggests that some things can be improved in a Jewish community"--is the way in which the notion Jewish self-hatred became pathologized within the Jewish community as the "sickness" contracted by a Jew who was in denial of, or not in proper relationship with, his "true" Jewish self and therefore his own best interests. Cheers! Rich Newman ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:24:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: Jewish Self-Hatred MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Damn that Hidden Language... where did we leave it again? Somewhere, somewhere... Oh! In the imagination of racist lunatics. On reflection, maybe that wasn't such a smart hiding place. -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Jeffrey Newman" To: Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 8:06 PM Subject: Jewish Self-Hatred > The full title of Gilman's book is Jewish Self-Hatred: Anti-Semitism and the > Hidden Language of the Jews, and it is a book, actually, that I think people > on this list might be very interested in because at its heart is an > examination of the anti-Semitic canard of the Jews' secret language and how > that canard effected Jews throughout history, starting with the problem of > identity faced by medieval Jewish converts to Christianity. The book is a > wonderful investigation of: the relationship between language and identity, > language and the center/margin(s) of a culture and more. One aspect of the > book that I think would interest people on this list, given the very > passionate investments that writers, perhaps especially poets, often have in > supporting/being a part of particular schools of writing as opposed to > others, is the way Gilman analyzes the relationship in anti-Semitic thought > between the idea of the hidden language of the Jews and journalism, which > was for a long time understood in Europe to be a quintessentially Jewish and > therefore by definition impoverished form of expression. (I must confess > that I do not remember the book well enough to say much more than that; my > own research right now concerns what Gilman has to say about stuff that went > on in the Middle Ages and so that's where my attention is focused.) > > Another thing Gilman does, apropos of George Bowering's point--"Every time I > have seen that term used it has referred to the words of a Jewish person who > suggests that some things can be improved in a Jewish community"--is the way > in which the notion Jewish self-hatred became pathologized within the Jewish > community as the "sickness" contracted by a Jew who was in denial of, or not > in proper relationship with, his "true" Jewish self and therefore his own > best interests. > > Cheers! > > Rich Newman ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:28:24 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Re: The 'M' word: a response In-Reply-To: <4054A3C3.D327D271@delhi.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirby Olson wrote: >>Luther loved Jews<< This is from Sander Gilman's Jewish Self-Hatred, and it coincides with everything I have ever read or heard about Luther and the Jews: "It is usual to divide Martin Luther's interest in the Jews into three phases, roughly coinciding with the main biographical periods of his life: the young Catholic Luther, for whom the Jews played little or no role, except as figures within biblical commentary; the Luther in rebellion against the Church, who assumed that his cleansing of Christianity from the evils of the Church would persuade Jews to convert; and the established Luther, embittered by the Jews' refusal to convert to the newly purged doctrine and violent in his language and attitude towards them." Gilman goes on to talk about Luther's instability, which Kirby Olson mentions, and then argues that you can in fact connect Luther's late, virulent anti-Semitism to his earlier attitudes towards the Jews by looking at what he had to say about Jewish converts. Gilman argues, in other words, that Luther was never not an anti-Semite, though is anti-Semitism might not have been so obvious and explicit when he was a young man. This is a complex argument within the book that I am not going to try to summarize here, though I will say it is pretty persuasive to me. What I want to point out here is that the second stage of Luther's interest in the Jews, where he was hoping they would convert, is hardly love and is, in itself, in its implicit and explicit denial of the validity of Judaism as a religion, anti-Semitic--or, since anti-Semitism was not a term used in Luther's time, and if you prefer the term, as some do, Jew-hating--on its face. I have no doubt that Luther said and wrote many important things and that he is a thinker one needs to come to terms with/account for; and I will also freely confess that I have not, but I do know this: to characterize as love what I have just described seems to me to be either a willful misreading of history or a profound corruption/falsification/misapprehension of the nature of love. Rich Newman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 00:23:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Jim and Alan and the Dead-List - The Story so Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Jim and Alan and the Dead-List - The Story so Far From: Jim Reith To: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Alan, something's wrong with the list >Do you have an email address for them? I've just got the listserv and it's >not working - Alan Seems to specify in the stuff I've been looking at that it's controlled by postmaster@listserv.aol.com > >On Sun, 14 Mar 2004, Jim Reith wrote: > >> >You might want to do the unlock cyb again? >> >> Interesting. It's unlocked at the moment. Also, I've gotten no error >> reports since thursday night. I usually get one every night at >> midnight >> >> > >> >By the way I never locked it - I couldn't even reach the site... >> > >> >But maybe trying triggered something off. >> > >> >Still I haven't even gotten a return from listserv@listserv.aol.com, >> >although it seems you have. >> >> No, i was getting my info off the web interface. Things have been >> getting posted, I can see them in the archive. Nothing replying to >> other posts, basically mostly you and Cyrill posting and then a few >> test posts from others (Linda Head, Baz, Maurice, me). The test post >> I sent through the web interface never made it but the one I sent >> through normal email did >> >> >Strange... >> >> very >> >> > >> >Alan >> > >> >On Sun, 14 Mar 2004, Jim Reith wrote: >> > >> >> >I hope this works. I did both traceroute and ping last night on >> >> >listserv.aol.com and it came up empty - the site was unreachable. >> >> >We'll see - Alan >> >> >> >> Well, things seem to get to it and post but nothing is coming back >> >> out. I've heard from several more people today that haven't heard >> >> anything since friday >> >> >> >> >On Sun, 14 Mar 2004, Jim Reith wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> >Hi - getting nothing at all myself - what's the URL of >>the archives? - >> >> >> > >> >> >> >I wonder if there's not an attack on AOL going on - or if >> >>they just pulled >> >> >> >the plug... >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Alan >> >> >> >> >> >> I was just going to check the configuration file and it gives me: >> >> >> >> >> >> Sorry, the CYBERMIND list has been locked since 04/03/14 00:09 by >> >> >> sondheim@PANIX.COM. You can unlock it, if needed and after checking >> >> >> with sondheim@PANIX.COM, by means of an "UNLOCK CYBERMIND" command. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >On Sat, 13 Mar 2004, Jim Reith wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> I haven't gotten any posts since about 3pm yesterday (but >> >>I see about >> >> >> >> 23 posts in the archives since then). I tried to post using the >> >> >> >> archives and it didn't get listed. I posted by email and it got >> >> >> >> there. Baz is having similar problems. i didn't even >>get the normal >> >> >> >> error report at midnight last night. not sure what's >>going on but >> >> >> >> some number of people aren't getting emails at the moment... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > From: Jim Reith To: CYBERMIND@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: List problems - please Read The list seems to have gone into a funky write-only mode (posts are getting made through email but not the web interface and nothing is coming back out) since about 3pm EST Friday 3/12. Alan and I are trying to make sense of it but none of the things we've tried seem to be helping. Alan is now contacting AOL to have them kick the server in the pants for us. please be aware you are not alone in getting no mail and that it is being looked into. Thanks, Jim and Alan From: Jim Reith To: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Alan, something's wrong with the list >When I do traceroute I get a lot of !X - which means - >!X (communication administratively prohibited) >- according to the man traceroute. > >Strange. I'll write postmaster at this end - Alan Ok, let me know if you hear anything because I am getting queries from people > >On Sun, 14 Mar 2004, Jim Reith wrote: > >> RELEASE >> >> LISTSERV(R) High Performance for unix version 1.8e, managed by: >> postmaster@listserv.aol.com >> >> Alias file version: *** File not found *** >> Running under: HP-UX B.11.11 >> Runmode: Standalone >> >> Don't know, but getting a "file not found" error seems suspicious... >> > From: Jim Reith To: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: list mail >Strange then. Do you want to try the unlock command or free cybermind >again? - Alan I've locked and unlocked it several times, hoping to kickstart something but nothing happened >On Sun, 14 Mar 2004, Jim Reith wrote: > >> That list mail I just CC'd you on did make it to the list and is >> posted in the archives. but of course nothing has come back. >> > ) ... ... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 00:33:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Queens (Modified Queens from Ian Murray) bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , bad data line: , , , , read 1729 stars. : tile. tile_green_glow. tile_gold. tile_fire. tile_fire_glow. _font_tile_letters. _font_digits_small. arrows. worm_still. worm_eat. worm_squat. progress_books. tile_fire_fx . tile_fire_fx . ?logo_bookworm. msg_level_piece. / / @ : : ?balloon_scramble. tile_scorched. ?font_level. _font_score. ember_small. tile_spin_fx. _smoke. worm_still_blink. / / @ : : ember_medium. ember_large. : background. tile_gold_glow. button_submit. button_new_game. button_sound_on. button_sound_off. button_help. 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Done. __ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:20:17 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cyrill Duneau Subject: red sulphur #001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit let for a season or for eleven months of interconnected events held as an opinion theoretical constructs matters of importance smooth shell-shaped convex and concave surfaces a secret meeting that indexes the principal (for example horses resemble rodents) of a punishment or denoting a response during sexual intercourse hysterical cries imaginary numbers jalal and jamal the image of wine ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 07:16:08 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Silliman's Blog Comments: To: WOM-PO , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, whpoets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT TOPICS: Charles Borkhuis: Surrealism, Language Poetry & New American Aesthetics The Philadelphia Progressive Poetry Calendar Cid Corman: 1924-2004 Noah Eli Gordon: boxing with the ghost of Spicer Lisa Jarnot: Swamp Formalism An anthology of response to the test of poetry Hong Hao, William T. Wiley, Hermann Nitsch & Henry Winkler avoiding eye contact: Visual art in NYC A test of poetry: anonymity & context Woundwood: The joy of a new book Chris Stroffolino on The Dreamers (Medium Cool) Sunday Morning Anthology: Nine poets in Somerville, MA Bill Bathurst & Richard Brautigan - Deciding to stop http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ * * * My latest book Woundwood is available from Cuneiform Press: http://www.cuneiformpress.com/wound.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 07:08:48 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Jewish Self-Hatred Comments: To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net In-Reply-To: <20040315030626.CSTR11989.out004.verizon.net@Richard> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i can chime in too; this book is full of strange and interesting anecdotes, a strong and interesting thesis, and good historical scope. i thought he must have a dozen research assistants to come up with such a variety of esoteric historemes but he does it all himself. At 10:06 PM -0500 3/14/04, Richard Jeffrey Newman wrote: >The full title of Gilman's book is Jewish Self-Hatred: Anti-Semitism and the >Hidden Language of the Jews, and it is a book, actually, that I think people >on this list might be very interested in because at its heart is an >examination of the anti-Semitic canard of the Jews' secret language and how >that canard effected Jews throughout history, starting with the problem of >identity faced by medieval Jewish converts to Christianity. The book is a >wonderful investigation of: the relationship between language and identity, >language and the center/margin(s) of a culture and more. One aspect of the >book that I think would interest people on this list, given the very >passionate investments that writers, perhaps especially poets, often have in >supporting/being a part of particular schools of writing as opposed to >others, is the way Gilman analyzes the relationship in anti-Semitic thought >between the idea of the hidden language of the Jews and journalism, which >was for a long time understood in Europe to be a quintessentially Jewish and >therefore by definition impoverished form of expression. (I must confess >that I do not remember the book well enough to say much more than that; my >own research right now concerns what Gilman has to say about stuff that went >on in the Middle Ages and so that's where my attention is focused.) > >Another thing Gilman does, apropos of George Bowering's point--"Every time I >have seen that term used it has referred to the words of a Jewish person who >suggests that some things can be improved in a Jewish community"--is the way >in which the notion Jewish self-hatred became pathologized within the Jewish >community as the "sickness" contracted by a Jew who was in denial of, or not >in proper relationship with, his "true" Jewish self and therefore his own >best interests. > >Cheers! > >Rich Newman -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 05:08:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: "Happy Campers" is taking place In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the Camp Trans benefit\ "Happy Campers" is taking place Saturday, March 20th, 3-8 pm at El Rio: 3158 Mission St, San Francisco the line-up will include: Dave Eggers, Carol Queen, Erika Lopez, Tim=92m West, Ultragypsey, Tara Jepsen & Beth Lisick, Harlem Shake, Red Jordan Arobateau, kari edwards, Tennessee Jones, Carolyn Connelly, and Lipstick Conspiracy. Don Baird DJ 3:30-4:00 Tennessee Jones 4:00-4:10 Carolyn Conneley 4:15-4:25 Tara Jepsen & Beth Lisick 4:30-4:50 kari edwards 4:55-5:05 Red Jordan Arobateau 5:10-5:20 Tim'm West 5:25-5:35 Erika Lopez 5:40-5:50 Dave Eggers 5:55-6:10 Carol Queen 6:15-6:30 Harlem Shake 6:35-6:55 Lipstick Conspiracy 7:00-7:30 Don Baird DJ 7:30-8:00 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 06:28:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: March 22 on courthouse steps across the country In-Reply-To: <1079342417.40557551461f8@imp2-q.free.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://transdada.blogspot.com/ lets go amerika...March 22 on courthouse steps across the country. Local women planning national event for gays Same-sex couples to meet at courthouses to put face on efforts to win=20 right to marry. By Tim Evans tim.evans@indystar.com March 15, 2004 Watching the national debate over same-sex marriage, Michele and Teresa=20= O'Mara felt it was missing a human element. So the Hendricks County=20 women, who married last July in Canada, decided to do something to=20 shift the focus from constitutional and religious ideologies to real=20 people. The result: a national event called Going to the Courthouse.=20 "This is a way to show the faces of the people affected," Michele=20 O'Mara said of the grass-roots campaign. Their plan is for gay couples,=20= their families and friends to gather March 22 on courthouse steps=20 across the country...... http://www.indystar.com/articles/4/129529-4094-009.html plus at http://transdada.blogspot.com/ Monday, March 15, 2004 South Florida Rally To Support Gay Marriage Same Sex Weddings at Big GLBTransgender Expo March 20-21 Gay New Hope pair to apply for marriage license in Bucks Araujo Murder Trial Begins Lawmakers Brace for Gay Marriage Debate Islamic members to challenge UN's same-sex benefits plan and more over the weekend - http://transdada.blogspot.com/ Poll reveals New Yorkers divided over gay marriages Georgia: Legislators erase church-state line Gay marriages fit into this adaptable institution Banning Same-Sex Marriage Violates Church-State Separation =A0Riley Calls for Gay Marriage Referendum Montgomery, Ala. Smear Campaign Targets Barney Frank Gay marriage debate includes questions of religious liberty SAY 'NO' TO MARRIAGE DISCRIMINATION IN THE CONSTITUTION! Same-sex couples win marriage rights -By Leslie Feinberg Student Group Sues OSU Over Right To Exclude Gays U.S. Isolated at Hemispheric Conference on Gender, Population Welfare wedlock and more @ http://transdada.blogspot.com/= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:02:01 -0500 Reply-To: Mike Kelleher Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Kelleher Organization: Just Buffalo Literary Center Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 3-15-04 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit AT TALKING LEAVES BOOKS Talking Leaves is pleased to announce a poetry reading featuring two dynamic young poets. On Friday, March 19th, at 7 p.m., the Main Street store will host a reading with Sean Thomas Dougherty, writing professor at Penn State Erie, and Erika Meitner, visiting writer at the University of California, Santa Cruz. The reading is free and open to the public, with books by both writers available for sale. IN THE HIBISCUS ROOM The Hibiscus Room at Just Buffalo is located in the Tri-Main Center, 2495 Main St., Ste 512 Ammiel Alcalay & Nick Lawrence Wednesday, March 24, 8 p.m. Ammiel Alcalay is a poet, translator, critic and scholar. His latest work, from the warring factions (Beyond Baroque, 2002), is a book length poem dedicated to the Bosnian town of Srebrenica. Nick Lawrence's poetry and prose have appeared in Grand Street, Talisman, Object, Lyric&, Mirage, and ecopoetics, among other magazines. He is the author of the chapbooks: Timeserver and Decolonizing the Child. The Card Catalog Poetry Project / ecopoetics 03 Double Launch Party and Reading March 27, 2004, 8:00 p.m. Admission free, books for sale Card Catalog Poetry Project A collection of poems written on discarded library catalog cards, featuring Rosa Alcala - Christopher Alexander - Brendan Bannon - Michael Basinski - Joel Bettridge - Junior Burke - Sarah Campbell - Jack Collom - Brenda Coultas - tatiana de la tierra - Richard Deming - Dan Featherston - Lisa Forrest - Graham Foust - Kristen Gallagher - Gordon Hadfield - Michael Kelleher - Nancy Kuhl - Douglas Manson - Rachel McCrystal - Maureen Owen - David Pavelich - Peter Ramos - David Reed - Anna Reckin - Emile Sabath - Kyle Schlesinger - Eleni Sikelianos - Jonathan Skinner - Jane Sprague - Sasha Steensen - Roberto Tejada - Karen Yacabucci. ecopoetics 03 Readings from featured contributors of ecopoetics 03: Lisa Forrest, Eric Gelsinger, Douglas Manson, Florine Melnyk, Isabelle Pelissier, Allen Shelton, Jonathan Skinner, Jane Sprague, Sasha Steensen, Damian Weber. www.factoryschool.org/ecopoetics OPEN READINGS, HOSTED BY LIVIO FARALLO Open readings are free and open to all. There are ten spots for readers. Sign-ups begin at 6:45. STACEY WATSON & JENNIFER TAPPENDEN Thursday, March 18, 7 P.M., The Book Corner, 1801 Main St., Niagara Falls, NY ROSS RUNFOLA & ED TAYLOR Sunday, March 21, 7 P.M., Rust Belt Books, 202 Allen Street, Buffalo, NY NEW WEBSITE Just Buffalo has a new website: http://www.justbuffalo.org. Please share this link with anyone you think might want it and feel free to link to it from your site. This site is still very much in process. We welcome feedback about the content of the site, as well as its userfriendliness. If you would like to add a publication, organization, contest, conference, resource, etc. to the list of writer links, please write Mike Kelleher (information below). WORKSHOPS Sign-up for one class or for the remaining three: So You Say You Can't Write Poetry? with Marj Hahne Three Wednesdays, March 17, 24, 31, 7 - 9 p.m.; $100, $85 for members As children we were natural poets, but by adulthood, we likely suppressed some of the sensibilities that enliven our reading and writing of poetry: (1) a fascination with wordplay and the infinite possibilities of language, (2) an alert sensory perception, (3) recognition and acceptance of our unique voice, and (4) patience with our learning process. Designed for the beginning or tentative poet (although practiced poets will find it enriching, too!), this educational and fun workshop will present accessible poetic forms, sample poems, and prompts as structures that allow for the possibility of poetry as we uncover or recover our individual poetic voices. We will create a safe space for generating lots of original writing while attending to the particulars of craft: language choices, the poem's shape, and various poetic devices. Marj Hahne is a poet and teaching artist from New York City. Her work has appeared in Painted Bride Quarterly, Mad Poets Reviews, La Petite Zine, Rogue Scholars, & New England Writer's Network. She also has a CD entitled, notspeak. How to Write and Sell Essays, Short Stories, Travel and Feature Articles, with Kathryn Radeff 3 Saturdays, March 13, 20, 27, and April 3 10-12 a.m. $135, $110 for members. Single class $35, $30 members The magazine field is overflowing with opportunity. With the right approach you can craft articles, sell and re-sell to worldwide publications. Open to everyone, this four-week special workshop focuses on the fundamentals editors are looking for and resents the secret to writing great marketing letters. Through in-class and at-home exercises, Kathryn Radeff provides a fun, effective, and motivational workshop designed to inspire the writer and develop creative confidence. The workshop also includes creative self-promotion methods and the business end of publishing. It is recommended that you purchase the four guidebooks from the "You Can Be A Working Writer" series at $5.95 each. March 13 Writing & Selling Short Stories March 20 Writing & Selling Travel Articles March 27 Writing & Selling Feature Articles NEW WEBSITE Just Buffalo has a new website: http://www.justbuffalo.org. Just Buffalo Literary Events Workshops Writers in Education Program (under construction) Writer's Links (Writers Resources, Publications, Contests, Literary Centers) Membership Info Organization Info Please share this link with anyone you think might want it and feel free to link to it from your site. This site is still very much in process. We welcome feedback about the content of the site, as well as its userfriendliness. If you would like to add a publication, organization, contest, conference, resource, etc. to the list of writer links, please write Mike Kelleher (information below). JUST ANNOUNCED Neruda 's Birthday Party Reading Just Buffalo and White Pine Press celebrate the Centennial of the birth ofthe great Chilean poet, Pablo Neruda. Wednesday, March 31, 2003, at 7:30pm in the Hibiscus Room. Visiting poet John Brandi will discuss Neruda and read from work influenced by Neruda's poetry. Dennis Maloney, translator of three books of Neruda's poetry, will read from his translations and discuss Neruda's impact on the world of poetry. Bring you favorite Neruda poem to read. The Njozi/Just Buffalo SlamFest Weekend April 2, 7 p.m., Open Mic Jam with New York poets, $10 April 3, 2 p.m., Teen Poetry Slam, $5 April 3, 7 p.m., Invitational Slam, $10 Allen Hall University at Buffalo South Campus (Next to Park & Ride) Njozi Promotions in conjunction with Just Buffalo present the Njozi SlamFest Weekend. We will be kicking off "National Poetry Month" with a showcase that will not be forgotten in the near future. Poets representing New York City, Toronto, Canada; Cleveland, Ohio and Washington, D.C. Friday night will be an off the hook Open Mic Jam featuring Jive Poetic, Mahogany Browne and Brother Earl from New York City. Saturday afternoon, April 3 will be the Njozi Teen Poetry Slam! We will have Dee Jays, door prizes and a lot of fun. The main event, the Buffalo Invitational Slam, takes place at 8 p.m. on Saturday. The registration is $25 for performers. The Grand Prize is $500 in cash to the man or woman left standing after 3 rounds. Pre registration is a must so contact us ASAP. If you have any questions send an email to Njozi@hotmail.com This promises to be a very memorable event! SPOKEN ARTS RADIO W/ Mary Van Vorst 6:35 and 8:35 a.m. Thursdays and 8:35 a.m. Sundays on WBFO 88.7 FM March 18 & 21 - SHARON OLDS Sharon Olds has been winning awards for poetry since her first book in 1980 Satan Says. She's now the author of seven books of poetry, and her work has appeared in The New Yorker, The Paris Review, and The Nation and Poetry. She's been awarded the Guggenheim Fellowship, and NEA grant, and served as New York State poet laureate. She teaches at NYU and helps run the workshop at Goldwater Hospital in New York. (She'll be in Buffalo 4/1/04 - a Canisius event.) April 1 & 4 - ED ROBERSON (In the Hibiscus Room) April 15 & 18 - YUSEF KOMUNYAKAA (Collaborations and Connections) April 29 & May 2 - SUSAN RICH (World of Voices) WORK*WRITE For better writing at work, turn to Just Buffalo. Today's workplace makes unprecedented demands to write and communicate effectively. Effective writing is one of the key components of workplace success, yet most people - from the reception desk to the executive suite - don't feel confident in their writing skills. Solid organizational writing means improved customer relations, fewer possibilities of legal liability and more efficient use of company time. Just Buffalo's instructors are working writers and professionals. Training is customized to your business needs and can be conducted on-site, off-site, or by email. For a brochure or more information, call Just Buffalo at 832-5400. IF ALL OF BUFFALO READ THE SAME BOOK JUST BUFFALO CHOOSES BOOKER PRIZE-WINNING NOVEL, THE GOD OF SMALL THINGS FOR 2004 IF ALL OF BUFFALO READ THE SAME BOOK BUFFALO - Just Buffalo Literary Center has chosen The God of Small Things,by Arundhati Roy, as the centerpiece of its 4th If All Buffalo Read The Same Book program, which will culminate in a two-day author's visit on September 8-9, 2004. The God of Small Things won the 1997 Booker Prize for literature, Great Britain's highest literary honor. Arundhati Roy became the first non-expatriate Indian author and the first Indian woman to win the award. The New York Times called the book "dazzling" and "remarkable," while the Washington post noted, "It's hard to avoid using words like 'splendid' and 'stunning' to describe this debut novel." Media, book clubs, organizations, educators, public officials and individuals who would like more information or a reader's guide, as well as those interested in sponsorship, can contact Just Buffalo at 832-5400 or by writing info@justbuffalo.org. _______________________________ Mike Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center 2495 Main St., Ste. 512 Buffalo, NY 14214 716.832.5400 716.832.5710 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk@justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:13:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sylvester Pollet Subject: Olson/Corman Correspondence Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Someone mentioned the Olson/Corman Complete Correspondence, ed. George Evans, published by the National Poetry Foundation in 1987. It is very much still available from NPF, in cloth or paper. Paper, Vol 1 $16.95, Vol 2 $16.95, or both volumes $30. Add $3 shipping in US. Orders, questions, or overseas shipping charges contact Gail Sapiel at NPF, I did a broadside of Cid's poems, A Baker's Dozen, in 1995. Anyone who didn't get one (#13 in the Backwoods Broadsides Chaplet Series) can get one for a buck US, $2 overseas air. Sylvester Pollet, 963 Winkumpaugh Rd. Ellsworth ME 04605 Here's a sample: 5 Death is the dance life does. Alone with alone on the crowded floor. Silence- the music- finally- reaching us. Cid Corman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:56:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the recent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII the recent http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/bodi.gif (body) http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/nik.gif (mouth) http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/decon.gif (bones) http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/finger.jpg (fingers) http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/space.jpg (space) *from http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/diary/diary.txt. http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim somewhere down in the Yours pages http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm; the Lost Project is at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm and my conference Trace Projects at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm and my conference To: sondheim@panix.com >> CDROM http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > CDROM of http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm >>>>> CDRO http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm >>> CDROM http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > CDROM of http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/inde= >>> C at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: the recent In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apart from all that, what have you been up to lately, Alan? Hal "A poet is someone from whom nothing must be taken and to whom nothing must be given." --Anna Akhmatova Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard { the recent { { http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm { http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/bodi.gif (body) { http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/nik.gif (mouth) { http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/decon.gif (bones) { http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/finger.jpg (fingers) { http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/space.jpg (space) { *from http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/diary/diary.txt. { http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim somewhere down in the Yours pages { http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm; the Lost Project is at { http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm and my conference { Trace Projects at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm { http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm and my conference { To: sondheim@panix.com >> CDROM { http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > CDROM of { http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm >>>>> CDRO { http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm >>> CDROM { http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > CDROM of { http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/inde= >>> C { at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: The M Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > Ok, here's another try to bridge this Jewish-Lutheran differend -- > > Alan Sondheim wrote: > > > But why bring Christianity into it at all? Any sort of monotheism is going > > to have problems, and Christianity for me is a foreign territory. > > I think the thing that we'll have to agree on is that poetry is somehow > insufficient in and of itself -- so it tends to team up with another > discipline so that it has a content. So, religion is one source -- Sufis, > Christians, Buddhists, and so on have many poets. George Herbert, just to > give you an example of a Christian poet, or Milton. > > The 60s poets -- Snyder, Kerouac, Ginsberg, but many others too -- tried > Buddhism. It's a big problem because Buddhism and Zen don't really offer much > of a social critique. It's more about trying to be in the moment it seems > than in trying to think about the nature of time, and how political structures > determine the quality of social time. > > So, Marxism is also a religion one could say in that it offers an arc through > time, and even an end to history (Kojeve emphasizes this end to history). But > Raymond Aron and others have made the case how much like a religion Marxism > is. > > So, with the postmodernists (especially Lyotard) there is the question of the > end of metanarratives. That is, he explicitly waves away both Christianity > and MArxism, and offers instead postmodernism -- whch he says quite explicitly > in his later books such as Postmodern Fables -- is liberalism. And Lyotard's > liberalism comes from Kant not Hegel (they are both Lutherans, but Hegel puts > God into time, while Kant is classically Lutheran -- going back to St. > Augustine and the notion of a split between earthly time and heavenly time -- > the beginning of the doctrine of two kingdoms -- with the Protestant work > ethic forming this kingdom's rule or law -- and the next kingdom framing a New > Jerusalem of grace). > > What I like about this is precisely its dualism. Marxism is a monism, as is > Calvinism. But Lutheranism offers two kingdoms. This is why I like the idea > of wiggle room in some of your interpretations of the > foundation/superstructure theory of Marx. That is, one conditions but does > not entirely determine the other. But it still seems to me that in MArxism > art has an almost entirely social role. There is no room for an art that isn't > social. This is what I think has been insufficiently criticized in Marxism. > > In Lutheranism the work has been done. Luther said that art was free to do > what it liked as it had nothing to do with salvation (no more than dancing or card playing -- outlawed > for instance by the Methodists). Marxists have > formulated this very social role for artists (buck it only if you want to be > slaughtered in a Marxist system -- as many Hungarians have pointed out, and > others discovered). > > The social role is determined by the needs of the state at any given time. I > don't know any Marxist theoreticians who don't put this quite baldly. Even > Lukacs says in his Theory of the Novel that comedy is atrocious because it > closes the heart. Only therefore the writing that opens one's heart to the > plight of the poor is ok. > > Liberals such as John Dewey argued that aesthetics could be an end in > themselves. Aristotle also argued this -- that art has such enormous prestige > precisely because it is one of the few places in a society where freedom has > been permitted. > > Marxists want to seize this prestige and make it budge history. > > This is because MArxism is totalitarian in its very nature -- everything is > about the improvement of society and there is no room for the personal. > > This is also why there's so little humor in Marxist countries -- humor depends > on the coming together of two viewpoints, and in Marxism there is only one > viewpoint. This is why the doctrine of social realism put so much emphasis > into banning comedy (Plato also banned it in the Republic). Here's a bit from > Zhdanov, who formulated social realism. This paragraph I think is still quite > close to what many MArxist thinkers think: > > "Comrade Stalin has called our writers engineers of human souls. What does > this mean? What duties does the title confer upon you? > > In the first place, it means knowing life ... [so as] to depict reality in its > revolutionary development... > > Our Soviet literature is not afraid of the charge of being 'tendentious.' > Yes, Soviet literature is tendentious, for in an epoch of class struggle there > is not and cannot be a literature which is not class literature, is not > tendentious, is allegedly nonpolitical" (12-13). > > For Luther, however, there could be a non-religious art. He said artists were > free to paint whatever they liked -- including nudes (Durer painted lots of > these, as did Luther's friend Cranach). > > So ironically Lutheran art is more free than Marxist art. Artists are free to > do what they like. To turn to geography for a model, or to sexology, or to > classical painting, rather than to a worker on a tractor, and the political metanarrative. > > But clearly a jump has been made out of this Marxism by poets like Charles > Bernstein, who's funny, and doesn't depict the working classes in heroic > poses, but who still I think assumes that writing has a very social role (this > is more easily seen in his essays, or in places where he denounces Ezra Pound in ad hominem attacks > for some of his social stances -- this seems to be a key place where he differs from Ron Silliman). > > But I'm bringing Christianity in because what's so strange about it is that > the role of the artists in Christian societies has ironically been much more > free than it has in Marxist societies. Can you imagine a poet in a Marxist > society who is free simply to amuse herself, or to write personal love poetry? > > I'm sure there is a social role for Marxism, but what about a something > more individual? > > I'd like to create more dualisms and pluralisms, and eject the monism of > Marxism. I feel cramped by its monological lense and its sole question -- but > is it good for society? Or the analogical role that others have since asked > -- But is it good for women? Or, is it good for blacks? Or, is it good for > the Jews (this last is considered to be a Zionist question, but it's the same > as the others). > > Can we instead ask whether it's good art on its own terms? In aesthetic terms > (aesthetic means not the study of beauty so much here as the study of art -- > including the attempt to create fascinating new forms of ugliness). > > This is where I think the Lutheran tradition has a lot going for it -- from > Kant through Kierkegaard. Yes, Luther was very rough on the Jews, but to go > ad hominem and to argue that therefore none of his ideas count or should > matter is a logical fallacy. Besides, Jews and Lutherans have been friendly > over the centuries, ever since. Luther hated everybody -- he thought the Pope > was the anti-christ. He came to hate his own friends sometimes especially > when they started smashing icons. Still, he had some great ideas. The best > is the two kingdoms bit. Separation of the heavenly from the earthly, the > church and the state, art and religion, and so on. He set up different > disciplines and allowed them to function on their own within German > universities without having to tow an official line. There is no such thing > as a Lutheran geology, for instance. This is what made the western university > function. Compare Marxism, which has never -- in any state that anybody can > name -- functioned -- in spite of myriad opportunities, and has always had > this horrible metanarrative of eclipsing the private pole in favor of the > social and shutting down everything that didn't according with its master > voice. On the other hand, Paul Tillich and many other contemporary Lutherans have created an enormous > new room for artists and poets that has been quite inspiring. Perhaps no one much knows about this > because I think I must be the only Lutheran that is interested in aesthetic issues. Oy vey, as they > say. "In the wine tax, the peasants tasted the bouquet of the government, its tendency." Marx -- Class Struggle in France -- REvolution of 1848 > > > -- Kirby Olson > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:06:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Shankar, Ravi (English)" Subject: Plagiarizing President MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm off to attend a press conference where our university president = explains having plagiarized in the Hartford Courant. The clamor for his = head has been vociferous here.=20 -Ravi=20 March 12, 2004 University President Accused of Plagiarism By STACEY STOWE http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/12/nyregion/12college.html?pagewanted=3Dpr= int&position=3D NEW BRITAIN, Conn., March 11 - Two years after his arrest on charges that he impersonated a police officer, the president of Central Connecticut State University is scheduled to appear before university trustees next week to respond to allegations that he committed plagiarism in a newspaper opinion article. Richard L. Judd, the university president since 1996, has been accused of borrowing material from at least three sources without attribution when he wrote a Feb. 26 article for The Hartford Courant about the conflict between Greece and Turkey over the island of Cyprus. Through a university spokesman, Mr. Judd, 66, declined to comment.=20 Days after the article was published, a reader contacted The Courant to report mistakes, said John J. Zakarian, the newspaper's editorial page editor. The paper published a correction. The same reader later noted similarities between Mr. Judd's article and an editorial on the same topic that appeared Jan. 7, 2003, in The New York Times. Mr. Judd wrote, "The divided island has for too long been contorted by tensions between Turkey and Greece.'' The first line of The Times editorial was: "The divided Mediterranean island of Cyprus, long contorted by tensions between Turkey and Greece, can look forward to a more promising future if the Turkish Cypriot leadership accepts a United Nations peace plan.'' In addition, two other sentences in the two pieces were virtually identical. In response, The Courant asked a company in Oakland, Calif., to analyze the article for evidence of plagiarism. The review found that at least 20 percent of the material in the piece was not original, said John M. Barrie, the president of the company, iParadigms. The analysis found Mr. Judd had borrowed an entire paragraph from a Web site belonging to the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, Mr. Barrie said. When asked by The Courant about the similarities, Mr. Judd responded in writing, saying he mistook notes he had made for a speech on the same topic as his own, when they may have come from books, articles and papers he had consulted. "I should have done a better job of vetting my text,'' he was quoted as saying in a Courant article on Tuesday written by Mr. Zakarian. In a telephone interview on Thursday, Mr. Zakarian said: "I'm angry. Our credibility has been hurt and our readers were not well served.'' In the past three years, Mr. Judd wrote two other opinion pieces for the paper: one on campus free speech and the other on the Middle East. Both have been reviewed. "To the best of our knowledge, we can't see that he lifted anything,'' Mr. Zakarian said of those pieces.=20 The university is conducting its own review of the Feb. 26 article. William Cibes, chancellor of the state university system, said his staff found that it borrowed from another source without attribution: an April 27, 2003, article in The Independent, a British newspaper. Asked his reaction to the allegations about Mr. Judd, whom he considers a friend, Mr. Cibes said: "Disbelief. Heartsick.''=20 After meeting with him, the trustees could decide to dismiss Mr. Judd, who earns $199,000 a year, said the president of the board of trustees, Lawrence D. McHugh. Or they could choose less severe options, like a reprimand or suspension, he said. Mr. Judd was reprimanded by the board in 2002 after using flashing lights on his car and pretending his university identification was a police badge to pull over a driver in Newington. He was sentenced to 30 days' probation in the incident.=20 The son of factory workers, Mr. Judd caddied and worked at a grocery store to pay his tuition at Central, where he graduated in 1959 with honors, according to a university newsletter. He wrote a book on emergency medicine, "The First Responder: The Critical First Minutes,'' published in 1982 by C. V. Mosby. On the university campus, where posters warning against plagiarism hang in the hallways of academic buildings, students said on Thursday that they were embarrassed by the allegations. "It kind of gives us a bad name,'' said Katharine Westover, a 19-year-old sophomore from Moosup, Conn. "There should be some serious consequences for him.'' Another sophomore, Aaron Bohigian, 19, of Southington, said he was "appalled'' when he heard about the latest incident. "I'm going to try to get into graduate school from here and this is really embarrassing,'' he said. "A slap on the face.'' ______________________________________________ http://www.ctnow.com/news/local/hc-stan0313.artmar13,0,681804.column An Examination Of Academic Ethics Judd Should Take Retirement Route Stan Simpson, Hartford Courant March 13 2004 Richard L. Judd should not be forced to resign as president of Central Connecticut State University next week solely because he apparently plagiarized sections of a commentary piece published in The Courant.=20 But he should retire when the semester ends in May. Three times in the past two years his actions have brought great embarrassment to this academic institution he adores. Mr. President, it's time. In February 2002 Judd was arrested and charged with impersonating a police officer. After flashing a badge and activating specially installed flashing lights on his car, Judd, who has extensive experience in emergency medical services and public safety - pulled over a motorist he believed was driving recklessly on Route 9. Last November, Judd undermined the authority of Athletic Director C.J. Jones in firing football coach Paul Schudel, without consulting Jones. That disrespectful act resulted in intense negative media for the university, union grievances and a $200,000 settlement for Schudel, who was wrongfully linked to the possible misuse of players' meal money. Now, the campus and alums like me have to endure the imbroglio over Judd's commentary on the conflict in Cyprus that ran last month in The Courant. Judd is accused of lifting text from the New York Times and another source, without attributing it.=20 He claims it was unintentional. Maybe it was, and frankly, don't university presidents have speechwriters to do this stuff? But Judd's confusing behavior over the past 24 months has been compounding and confounding. An arrest, a reprimand from the board of trustees, the demeaning treatment of a longtime Central stalwart such as Jones, the $200,000 "oops, my bad" payoff to Schudel and now accusations of plagiarism. Enough. "Whether it's a mistake or not, with the position that he's in, there's only so much you can take," says Joe Kondracas, a Central sophomore. "He's supposed to be responsible and not make those kind of mistakes. It's like how much more can [the board of trustees] take?" We'll find that out next week, when trustees are expected to discuss the matter with Judd. "He has done some questionable things in the past, and it seems to be adding up more and more each time," says Joe Carcaud, a Central senior, who is general manager of WFCS-radio, the campus station. "It seems to be a bigger offense [each time]. ... I've met him. He's a very good guy, a very personable person. But you have to set a good example." Personally, I'm very fond of Judd. He's offbeat, salty, learned and a little eccentric. This is a guy who grew up in the Bridgeport projects and has had an array of jobs in his 40 years at his alma mater - from waiting tables to being the first alum to head CCSU. Under Judd's leadership, the campus has sparkled with hundreds of millions of dollars in improvements, a more diverse student population and an elevation in prestige. No one loves Central more than Judd. This Blue Devil bleeds blue. He humbled me last year by asking me to give the commencement speech at Central's post-graduate ceremony, then surprised me with the President's medal for my work in journalism. This year, I was asked by Judd, through his administration, to be an honorary co-chairperson of the CCSU Alumni Association's "Read Across America" literacy program. At a private lunch Judd and I had in his chambers last summer, we had a wide-ranging conversation, including the possibility of a more meaningful role for me at the university. Dick Judd has treated me with the utmost respect. I hate to see him going out like this, but his wounds are self-inflicted. If the charge against Judd were just one count of plagiarism, I would be making the case that discipline was needed, not retirement. Heck, former Boston Globe columnist Mike Barnicle, a serial plagiarist and fabricator, just got hired to be a columnist at the Boston Herald, the newspaper that exposed his transgressions. Sen. Joseph Biden of Delaware is still going strong years after it was determined that he didn't attribute sections from a speech he once gave. A Courant colleague's career seems to have rebounded after a 30-day suspension last year for ripping off someone else's work. Judd's fate should not rest solely on the academic integrity of his opinion column. More troubling is the compilation of bad decisions best described as sophomoric. At 66, Dick Judd has the energy level of the Energizer bunny. But his ability to lead this university and command the respect of its constituents has eroded. It's time. *************** Ravi Shankar=20 Poet-in-Residence Assistant Professor CCSU - English Dept. 860-832-2766 shankarr@ccsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:43:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Rumble Subject: Desert City Poetry Series w/ Mark Salerno & Evie Shockley -- Carrboro, NC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Please spread far and wide...... Who: Mark Salerno, Author of _Method_, _For Revery_, and _Hate_, _Los Angeles Review_ Poetry Editor, Currently on "Read Till You Bleed" 5 city tour, Sultan of Simile, Poesy Provocateur Who: Evie Shockley, Author of _Gorgon Goddess_, Desert City Returnee, Wake Forest Professor, Inspiration behind invention of the super-superlative adjectival form e.g: "greatestester" What: Desert City Poetry Series, Idle hands are the devil's poetry series When: Friday, March 19th, 8:00 pm, 2004 Where: Sizl Gallery, 405 E. Main Street, Carrboro, NC, near Carrburritos, off Franklin, intersects Rosemary, directly above the center of the earth, park at the Meineke Why: "I wanted to / love in return the most simple world / but some cowboys are just plain evil" "the best cellars are dark and earthy humid places where fears take / root and grow up to be cowboys" See you there................................. Sizl Gallery: www.sizlgallery.com Also announcing Desert City's collaboration with Chapel Hill's finest independent bookstore: The Internationalist: www.internationalistbooks.org Desert City Poetry Series: http://www.carrboro.com/desertcitypoetry/, coming soon -- www.desertcity.org Evie Shockley: http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/stadler_center/how2/current/southern/sho ckley.shtm Mark Salerno: http://www.durationpress.com/thefigures/method.htm ***Coming Soon: Saturday, April 24th -- Rod Smith, Mark Wallace, & K. Lorraine Graham --contact DCPS: Ken Rumble, Director: rumblek@bellsouth.net “Far Reports” by Mark Salerno Farther is blue ether then grey white cloud puffs then a tree on a ridge gone day green after night's rain. One slow eye blink. The world is far reports pictures for people. Content or simply there. Say what you'd have. Say words. Far world. Blue. People. Closer. “you can say that again, billie” by Evie Shockley southern women serve strife keep lines of pride open trees are not taller than these broad vessels femmes who bear fully armored knights clinking from the womb but a night in whining ardor means black woman compelled how strange brown vassal on a bed of green needles ingests the fruit of georgia let that gestate but be-gets no child of the south blood tells the story do you salute old gory were you born on a white horse or a black ass everything depends upon the way your rusty lifeflow writes sutpenmanship if it leaves blond scribbled across your scalp hurray and blue inscribed in your eyes praise the cause your literary blood wins the gene pool it’s a prize hide your mama baby at worst you’re a breast-seller compelling octorune but the best cellars are dark and earthy humid places where fears take root and grow up to be cowboys yee-haw ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:18:37 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Bechtel Subject: Re: Plagiarizing President MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe he has a career as a pastiche artist ... -Brent ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shankar, Ravi (English)" To: Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 2:06 PM Subject: Plagiarizing President I'm off to attend a press conference where our university president explains having plagiarized in the Hartford Courant. The clamor for his head has been vociferous here. -Ravi March 12, 2004 University President Accused of Plagiarism By STACEY STOWE ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:20:12 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Todd Swift Subject: Poems for Madrid - Nthpostion Poetry In April MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please forward a call for poems Nthposition.com in London is calling for "poems for Madrid". A = selection will be published online in our second-anniversary April = issue, in several weeks. The poems will be dedicated to the people of = Madrid, Spain; and their friends and family throughout Europe; and the = world. The editors are open to a variety of responses, themes, and = perspectives. This is a fragile time caught between mourning and = protest, rage and sorrow, loss and achievement (as in the recent Spanish = elections). Europe is unsteady after its "own 9/11" - three minutes of silence today = observed across the continent. After silence, what shall we say, what = poems will we write? The "poems for Madrid" will follow the e-books "100 poets against the = war"; "Times new roman" and "poems for Lord Hutton" as a tradition of = sharing voices, concerns, struggle, hope and art, through poetry, across = the world, in the near-instant of the Internet. Please send the poems to: nthposition c/o todd@toddswift.com=20 peace. Todd Todd Swift Poetry Editor London, UK http://www.toddswift.com http://www.nthposition.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:20:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: a Marxian model of the social in poetry Comments: cc: Michael Magee MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Mike, thanks for mentioning your fascinating work in this context. It's curious to see the indirect presence of Emerson in Arnold, for example in Arnold's essay "Democracy," how he associates "self-reliance" with resistance to and deferment of democracy and to the continuance of aristocratic values, in a class-riven society such as England's. That Arnold was leery of "symbolic action" is a keen point, and is certainly evident in for example a Victorian Tintern Abbey poem such as "A Summer Night." It would be interesting to contrast Arnold and Emerson for how they interpret German Romanticism, particularly a notion such as "culture," which doesn't quite translate "bildung." On other matters, I don't know what you think about the supposed split between "individual," or "private," or "personal," and "social" (is it there in pragmatists?), but this split is the very symptom that Marx's theory of the social addresses, moreover in very funny ways (Marx's writings have GARGANTUAN - and in the Pantagruelian sense - humor: how could anyone who has read Marx miss this?!). Marx wasn't the first to address this fantasy Crusoeian split, either. It's not as well known, but Spinoza addresses it via his critique of Hobbes, for instance - so, right at the cusp, there, of the modern. It's a misreading (a stereotypical one, I'm sorry to say, so it's hard for me to get worked up about addressing it -- and since you don't yourself address it, Mike, I aplogize for doing so despite my own better sense of it!) to think that one can take Marx to task for upholding this split and for favoring the social over the individual. And I wonder if you will agree with me that it's also a bit of a serious misjudgment for anyone to think that this split even still applies in some sense to present conditions and life. Does Rorty? Uh-uh. One doesn't have to read Marx or Luther to think about how un-private "our" life has become; one doesn't even have to read to think about it, but if one likes to read, then Christian Parenti's recent book The Soft Cage is useful on this point. Mike, I also have no idea why "we" "have" to agree "poetry is somehow insufficient in and of itself." I have trouble understanding what such a phrase, "in and of itself," means. That to me is indeed a blindspot of some pragmatism, however. Aside from pragmatist terms, however, the way I understand the phrase is that it beckons to a paradox of materialism. Steve McCaffery raises this paradox in relation to the faded science of Derridian grammatology: that writing, for Derrida - for all his emphasis on how it secretly supplements and opposes speech - curiously rarely materializes as a literal mark on the page. But, I for one put the paradox in the following Brikian terms: there is no mark that is not a social mark. Poetry is definitely "sufficient." As Steve Evans pointed out some long time ago, Mike, isn't John Parker the first to write a Lutherian poem, in the first issue of your magazine _Combo_? Best wishes to you, Louis ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:38:14 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Todd Swift Subject: Poems for Madrid - Nthposition Poetry In April MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please forward a call for poems Nthposition.com in London is calling for "poems for Madrid". A = selection will be published online in our second-anniversary April = issue, in several weeks. The poems will be dedicated to the people of = Madrid, Spain; and their friends and family throughout Europe; and the = world. The editors are open to a variety of responses, themes, and = perspectives. This is a fragile time caught between mourning and = protest, rage and sorrow, loss and achievement (as in the recent Spanish = elections). Europe is unsteady after its "own 9/11" - three minutes of silence today = observed across the continent. After silence, what shall we say, what = poems will we write? The "poems for Madrid" will follow the e-books "100 poets against the = war"; "Times new roman" and "poems for Lord Hutton" as a tradition of = sharing voices, concerns, struggle, hope and art, through poetry, across = the world, in the near-instant of the Internet. Please send the poems to: nthposition c/o todd@toddswift.com=20 peace. Todd Todd Swift Poetry Editor London, UK http://www.nthposition.com apologies for cross-posting ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:39:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: The M Question In-Reply-To: <40560169.7395851A@delhi.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirby wrote: ..| The 60s poets...tried Buddhism It's a ..| big problem because Buddhism and Zen ..| don't really offer much of a social critique If Buddhism does this it is only because it has discovered a way without credentials. ..| > I'd like to create more dualisms and pluralisms The problem with dualisms and pluralisms is being confused with confusion. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:39:47 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Pam=20Brown?= Subject: "M" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear North American friends, "M" is perhaps, temporarily, also for Madrid. All the best, Pam Brown ===== Web site/Pam Brown - http://www.geocities.com/p.brown/ Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:42:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: NEW Contributor List at Big Bridge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Big Bridge has added a CONTRIBUTORS LIST to the site. I think this will help readers explore the archives with less hassle. = Check it out! BIG BRIDGE www.bigbridge.org Also, if you are a contributor and there is something in your = information that is incorrect please let me know.=20 Best,=20 Michael Rothenberg walterblue@bigbridge.org Big Bridge www.bigbridge.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:48:22 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Chicago Postmodern Poetry Calendar is Updated for AWP In-Reply-To: <1079272447.405463ffe14fb@imp5-q.free.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you are attending AWP in Chicago from the 24th-28th of March I have included a listing of the various readings not affiliated with the conference. Please also send anything of note to us for posting Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetrycalendar.blogspot.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Cyrill Duneau > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 7:54 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: let me know > > > uncomprehensible > bullshit-dictionary-overlooked-words-and-syntax-so-called- > poetry > uncomprehensible > bullshit-dictionary-overlooked-words-and-syntax-so-called- > poetry > uncomprehensible > bullshit-dictionary-overlooked-words-and-syntax-so-called- > poetry > uncomprehensible > bullshit-dictionary-overlooked-words-and-syntax-so-called- > poetry > uncomprehensible > bullshit-dictionary-overlooked-words-and-syntax-so-called- > poetry > there was blood, semen, and body parts everywhere > These are real people > limitation > crack dealers disturbingly voyeuristic nature of this type into > the black heart > sitting in the dark > matrixial time I and non-I empathy with the pain of the other n=8 using an > algorithm called backtracking > kinematografij one quarter of a non-monolithic kilobyte > SUCH POSTS WILL NOT BE CENSORED > imitation > conventional concepts in Berlin inflicting pain and agression > fotografski > (Even though 'meanings' do play a role they play a limited role) > that was the funeral > > *** Command error at or near line 2 > *** > *** No commands were processed > > the Yes I am 18 years old box) **REMEMBER > ((ugh) & with all eyes upon mee (=all seeing > > let me know who I am > let me know who I am > let me know who I am > > > epidemiologic evidence of driving force behind every bit of > bizarre cultural > morphing > Hvala za prijavo Why can't the United States and other countries > do the same?* > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:48:16 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harriet Zinnes Subject: Fwd: submission MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_1dc.1c752866.2d878cb0_boundary" --part1_1dc.1c752866.2d878cb0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_1dc.1c752866.2d878cb0_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: Hzinnes@aol.com Full-name: Hzinnes Message-ID: <105.4181adc5.2d878b9c@aol.com> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:43:40 EST Subject: submission To: nthpositionc/otodd@toddswift.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 40 I hope this one works! Where No men Die Bosnia, Kosovo, Rwanda, Sri Lanka. Names. Beautiful syllables. Pronounce them. The joy of resonance. History? Powerless? Let the syllables establish relations. Let the syllables war their sound. Let no syllable die. Let the language unfold. History? When the powerless take over .... When the text (bombings, shootings, maimings) leaves out the context in books where no men die. ------------------ Harriet Zinnes HZinnes@aol.com --part1_1dc.1c752866.2d878cb0_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:55:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU Subject: Re: a Marxian model of the social in poetry Comments: To: Louis Cabri In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Louis, I don't have the time right now to really respond to this in a way that will do it justice -- you're addressing so much. But, just for starters here's Emerson in 1855 on "self-reliance": "Whilst I insist on the doctrine of the independence and the inspiration of the individual, I do not cripple but exalt the social action...to every man the largest liberty compatible with the liberty of every other man. No citizen will go wrong who upon any question leans to the side of general liberty." This notion of "general" liberty would seem to stamp indviduality as inherently a social phenomenon. Similarly he suggests elsewhere (again, in the 1850s when he's knee-deep in abolitionism) that the essence of self-reliance is to "postpone oneself, to protect another from oneself." That the theorist of “self-reliance” should recommend that one “postpone oneself” seems counterintuitive, but that stipulation was latent in Emerson’s conception of self-reliance from the beginning. Anyone who wishes to posit a connection between E.'s “self-reliance” and “rugged-individualism” needs to explain how he/she works around the theoretical and practical implications of this concept of “postponement.” Such an explanation would necessarily include an engagement with Emerson’s criticism of “an easy self-reliance that makes [one] self-willed and unscrupulous...pampered by finer draughts, by political power and by the power in the railroad board, in the mills, or the banks;” and his connection of “liberty” with “self-denial,” in “The Fortune of the Republic” (1863). I don't think *I* suggested that "poetry is somehow insufficient in and of itself" did I? In any event I believe poetry is quite sufficient for precisely the reasons you mention. Nor did I mean to imply I was taking Marx to task, if I did. I think there's quite a bit of confluence between Marxism and Pragmatism actually, just as there is alot of disagreement among Marxists and among Pragmatists. I'm no big fan of Rorty's but let's say that to read Dewey's Art as Experience alongside Adorno's Aesthetic Theory is pretty eye-opening. Last thought for now: the crucial year, I think more and more, for this issue of the social in poetry, in language, of symbolic action, etc etc, is the revolutionary year 1848 (this isn't necessarily news, I know). You see how Arnold reacts in "To a Republican Friend." Emerson writes the essay "Kossuth." To what extent is poetry, they all seem to be asking themselves, supposed to participate in social revolution, and on which side? Arnold's studied disavowal of politics in that poem (itself highly political) remarkly predicts the New Criticism and *it's* politics (particularly that of the Southern agrarians Ransom, Tate et al). Any-hoo.... -m. Quoting Louis Cabri : > Mike, thanks for mentioning your fascinating work in this context. It's > curious to see the indirect presence of Emerson in Arnold, for example in > Arnold's essay "Democracy," how he associates "self-reliance" with > resistance to and deferment of democracy and to the continuance of > aristocratic values, in a class-riven society such as England's. That Arnold > was leery of "symbolic action" is a keen point, and is certainly evident in > for example a Victorian Tintern Abbey poem such as "A Summer Night." It > would be interesting to contrast Arnold and Emerson for how they interpret > German Romanticism, particularly a notion such as "culture," which doesn't > quite translate "bildung." > > On other matters, I don't know what you think about the supposed split > between "individual," or "private," or "personal," and "social" (is it there > in pragmatists?), but this split is the very symptom that Marx's theory of > the social addresses, moreover in very funny ways (Marx's writings have > GARGANTUAN - and in the Pantagruelian sense - humor: how could anyone who > has read Marx miss this?!). Marx wasn't the first to address this fantasy > Crusoeian split, either. It's not as well known, but Spinoza addresses it > via his critique of Hobbes, for instance - so, right at the cusp, there, of > the modern. It's a misreading (a stereotypical one, I'm sorry to say, so > it's hard for me to get worked up about addressing it -- and since you don't > yourself address it, Mike, I aplogize for doing so despite my own better > sense of it!) to think that one can take Marx to task for upholding this > split and for favoring the social over the individual. And I wonder if you > will agree with me that it's also a bit of a serious misjudgment for anyone > to think that this split even still applies in some sense to present > conditions and life. Does Rorty? Uh-uh. One doesn't have to read Marx or > Luther to think about how un-private "our" life has become; one doesn't even > have to read to think about it, but if one likes to read, then Christian > Parenti's recent book The Soft Cage is useful on this point. > > Mike, I also have no idea why "we" "have" to agree "poetry is somehow > insufficient in and of itself." I have trouble understanding what such a > phrase, "in and of itself," means. That to me is indeed a blindspot of some > pragmatism, however. Aside from pragmatist terms, however, the way I > understand the phrase is that it beckons to a paradox of materialism. Steve > McCaffery raises this paradox in relation to the faded science of Derridian > grammatology: that writing, for Derrida - for all his emphasis on how it > secretly supplements and opposes speech - curiously rarely materializes as a > literal mark on the page. But, I for one put the paradox in the following > Brikian terms: there is no mark that is not a social mark. > > Poetry is definitely "sufficient." > > As Steve Evans pointed out some long time ago, Mike, isn't John Parker the > first to write a Lutherian poem, in the first issue of your magazine > _Combo_? > > Best wishes to you, > Louis > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:00:24 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: The M Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Choygam Trungpa said once to a huge Naropa group in the late 70s -- confusion is the best friend you'll ever get -- better than that flat soda you drink. I love confusion and spread it gaily. -- Kirby Derek R wrote: > Kirby wrote: > > ..| The 60s poets...tried Buddhism It's a > ..| big problem because Buddhism and Zen > ..| don't really offer much of a social critique > > If Buddhism does this it is only because it has discovered a way without > credentials. > > ..| > I'd like to create more dualisms and pluralisms > > The problem with dualisms and pluralisms is being confused with > confusion. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:23:40 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karen Lewis Subject: Somali words relating to poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I'm wondering if any of you can help with translating some basic poetry words and concepts into Somali. I have a 5th grade female student who knows very little English and has virtually no prior schooling. I'm not even sure how much Somali she can read. I'm looking for basic words like poem, poetry, writer, ideas, feelings, words for the five senses, relationship, comparison etc. Anything that might help me try to convey what the heck I am doing visiting her class. Karen Lewis ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:36:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Iraq in Particular Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable from Baghdad Burning I read this excellent piece and I suddenly feel like throwing up. The more transparent the lies become around this Administration - that we have been living within a coup - the more anger emerges. Neo-Con Hell run amuck. It's going to take every tool and level of pressure to evict these fools. And so much more to cure the damage done. Friday, March 12, 2004 =A0 Spring... Discussions around the dinner table mainly focus on the Transitional Law these days. I asked a friend to print out the whole thing for me and have been looking it over these last two days. I watched only a part of the ceremony because the electricity went out in the middle of it and I didn't bother watching a recap of it later on. The words look good on paper- as words often do. Some parts of it sound hauntingly like our last constitution. The discussions about the Transitional Law all focus on the legitimacy of this document. Basically, a= n occupying power brought in a group of exiles, declared Iraq 'liberated', declared the constitution we've been using since the monarchy annulled and set up a group of puppets as a Governing Council. Can these laws be considered legitimate? Furthermore, just how sincere are these puppets about this new Transitional Law? For example, there's a lovely clause that reads, "No one may be unlawfully arrested or detained, and no one may be detained by reason of political or religious beliefs." Will the American troops discontinue the raids and arbitrary detentions (which are still quite common) come June 30? Or is the Transitional Law binding only to Iraqis? One example of an arbitrary detention we heard about the other day was of a man who was arrested in Tikrit. They raided his home and gathered the 25-year-old man, two brothers and an elderly uncle. They got the usual treatment: a bag on the head, and hands behind their backs. They were taken to a place outside of Tikrit and thrown into a barn-like area with bags on their heads- still tied up. For 3 days, they were kicked and cursed by the troops. In between the kicking and cursing, a hefty soldier would scream questions at them and an interpreter would translate, "Are you part of Al-Qaeda?! Do you know Osama bin Laden?!" On the third day, one of the youn= g men struck up a deal with who he gathered was their 'head'- the man who gav= e all the orders. They agreed that one of the soldiers would accompany the ma= n back to the city and wait while he came up with $300/detainee. The rest of the men would be freed a couple of days later. And it worked. Two days later, his three relatives came walking home after being dropped off on the side of the road. Basically, they paid a ransom fo= r their freedom. Just one of the many stories about life in the 'New Iraq'- n= o wonder Chalabi was so jubilant while signing the Transitional Law document. The country is currently like an unguarded bank- especially for those who bear arms.=20 The general attitude towards the document is a certain weariness. Iraqis ar= e weary of everything 'transitional' and 'temporary'. I guess, after almost a year of instability and strife, we just crave something more definite and substantial.=20 Spring is in the air- and that means dust storms and a mellow sun for Iraqis. We're enjoying the weather because by the end of April, summer will be in full swing and the heat will come in almost palpable waves. The mornings are slightly cool and by noon we've shed the jackets. We no longer need the 'sopas' or kerosene heaters at home- which is a relief to E. who has been designated the job of filling them up and making sure the kerosene tank in the yard is always full (the kerosene man has become a dear friend)= . These last few days have brought back memories of the same dates, last year= . What were we doing in early March? We were preparing for the war=8A digging wells, taping up windows, stocking up on candles, matches, kerosene, rice, flour, bandages, and medicine=8A and what are we doing now? Using them.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:03:17 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Weighty Ten Beds & A Wan Coatroom Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed wings, the back eye in, the eye extends front the inside dance is here peach-articulate punch cupped patiently, see, the palms are there, the head, the toes my painting, Wormswork, my, as into me, oh my you're so... who? what upon each sheet frames your final me you're final... & me? I'm so... flowered, spit in the middle of your bedside a papyrus marked loose with dripping, your hands, see, are soft blocks, maybe they'll touch the first eyes in view for imprint of those eyes on your soft blocks your wings'll go stepping over teeth, new rooftops, lemon trees, now, with your wings, they lie long flat against your back, carved names preceded any tongue, inside clocks are bones, spines, along them run a sigh, also along both painted mouths... & along the ceiling under those rooftops are hung the fingers you may sometime like to visit, petals tabled with candles your body, Wormswork, laced with maps and topped with a halo - & mine? it's so... _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:19:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: The M Question In-Reply-To: <40563587.E53ED48A@delhi.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirby said: ..| I love confusion and spread it gaily. If u know Trungpa then u know the advantage of 'having more material to work with' (no confusion = no wisdom) is available ONLY IF you accept things as they are. So 'chaos should be regarded as extremely good news' only if there is already an absence of any principle of rejection. So *rejecting* 'monism' + evoking Trungpa's crazy wisdom appears to me, at least, incompatible, or inconsistent (ie. shifty). Trungpa's is a trick-saying since to regard anything as favorable is to make friends with it and therefore more is more (Spinoza). The point Trungpa is making, that I see, is to love ALL confusion and proceed in an open way (no categories, no limit, no rejection). This is analogous, I think, to Jesus saying 'love one another' by which he REALLY means it (passion? no - it's precision) and not mockingly. ________________________ *Spinoza - Prop. XXXI, 'Strength of the Emotion' "In so far as anything agrees with our nature, thus far it is necessarily good [ie. useful]." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:58:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bruce Holsapple Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 11 Mar 2004 to 12 Mar 2004 (#2004-73) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Burt, I sent you a message Feb 2nd with several questions. Apparently you've been quite busy. Perhaps you didn't have time to respond & it got filed away. I wondered if I might send it again without being too rude. I pasted that letter below. I hope you had a good trip, wherever it was that you went. I continue working on the Williams. I've gone a bit further than that abstract I sent, & need to replace it. I've been able to get a whole of the Zukofsky/Williams letters as well as a copy of Cureton's book on phrase rhythm. (I had to write to England for it!) I've also been working on the Whalen essay, & that's about ready to send. I think you'll like it. But I repeat, I've not heard a word from Sagetrieb in 15 months now. Hope all is well. Bruce Hi Burt Thanks for your prompt response to the Conference submission. I'm real pleased that you all accepted my proposal. I'm still working on the thesis. Do you have a date when that has to be submitted (for printing)? I should have it down soon. Also, did you think your way thru my suggestions on Gene Frumkin and Bill Sylvester? Half this interview I'm doing with Sylvester is on Henry Rago, & that could be remade into a conference paper. And I suppose I should mention that I never did hear from Sagetrieb on the Whalen essay you said they had accepted. That's not a big problem so far. I've spent the time revising & it has become a much better essay. Hope you all are well. PS: Did you read All Poets Welcome yet? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:38:50 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harriet Zinnes Subject: Re: Poems for Madrid - Nthpostion Poetry In April MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Todd Perhaps you want another poem on the subject? Here it is But It Is Oil Notwthstanding and so forth but it is oil and the dark tunnels disappear and the ghosts of tanks the sand covering dead bodies The missiles, where are they stored? And imports of uranium and of aluminum tubes for mking missiles ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:25:30 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Forrest Gander MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII If Forrest Gander is on this lis, could you please contact m. If not, contact info would be appreciated. Thanks, Kevin -- --------------------------- http://paulmartintime.ca/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:01:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Annie Finch Subject: Theresa Cha estate? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Does anyone have an email address for permissions for Theresa Cha? If so, please backchannel. Many thanks! Annie -- ___________________________________ Annie Finch http://www.users.muohio.edu/finchar Associate Professor English Department Miami University Oxford, Ohio 45056 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:21:49 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: madrid poem Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 so here is my madrid poem: sayonara in madrid means hello christophe casamassima -- _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:40:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bruce Holsapple Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 11 Mar 2004 to 12 Mar 2004 (#2004-73) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Listserv Obviously what I just sent was a personal letter & I apologize to all involved. Long day, wrong switch. Bruce Holsapple ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:59:48 -0800 Reply-To: pdunagan@lycos.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick dunagan Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Jack Spicer/Philip Dick query (fwd) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's a wonderful cowboy angel figure taking dictation in the recent film Northfork. Very Orphic and reminiscent of Spicer's "Billy". -- --------- Original Message --------- DATE: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:25:07 From: Poetics List Administration To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Cc: >---------- Forwarded Message ---------- >Date: Thursday, March 11, 2004 10:42 PM -0500 >From: John Lowther >To: poetics@acsu.buffalo.edu >Subject: Jack Spicer/Philip Dick query > >Lori, please post this for me. I sent it to you before but it got lost in >the shuffle. It was rejected again from poetics. I've tried test messages >to 5 of 9 other lists that I am on and all of them work fine. Have gone >thru my mail preferences and such as well and cannot find any attachment >crap, nor do any of my immediate friends get my emails with attachments >they say. not sure what else to do. John > > >** >Perhaps someone on this list knows (Kevin Killian, are you still on this >list?) > >In POET BE LIKE GOD [Ellingham and Killian] some thematic connections are >discussed between Philip K. Dick and Spicer. This passage; > >...when Larry brought Jack a copy of Dick''s novel _Counter Clockwise >World_, Spicer said bashfully, "I know Phil Dick!" Dick's novel begins >with a scene right out of Spicer's later poetry--a man approaches a hot dog >vender in Aquatic Park and receives a slip of paper that reads "HOT DOG." >There was a strange confluence in the work of the two writers, since >Spicer's theories of dictation, of the "outside," resemble Dick's later >vision of VALIS to a remarkable degree. VALIS. Dick's acronym for the "Vast >Active Living Intelligence System" that permeates our universe without >mercy, only unintelligible revelation, is as scary as anything in Spicer. >(The "Pacific Nation" itself is anticipated in the references to the "PSA" >[Pacific States of America] in Dick's 1962 novel _The Man in the High >Castle_.) _______Page 301 > >*** > >I have some questions about this passage. > >Philip Dick's novel is actually titled _Counter-Clock World_ and doesn't >open with a man buying a hot dog. But the hot dog & the slip of paper >sound like something from a Dick novel or story, less so perhaps, for me at >least, than Spicer's poetry. Where in Philip Dick does the hot dog note >story come from? Any guesses? > >Has anyone written more extensively about this comparison? It would seem >to me that Spicer's dictation would compare more to Dick's visions. >Spicer's various poetic figures of outsiderness (martians, ghosts, etc) are >stagings of this experience, much as in Dick's later novels we see his >visions and such reframed in novels, the visions attributed to satellites, >aliens etc. > >*** > >Also, I have been intrigued by the comparisons made by Peter Gizzi in his >afterword to THE HOUSE THAT JACK BUILT where he quotes from "It Came from >Outerspace" and "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" and references "Invaders >from Mars". I'm trying to work out a few film nights locally, on the 1st >I'll show "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" and then Cocteau's "Orphee" at >the 2nd I'm not sure, I would like to pair them again in a similar >popular/artsy way but also tie them to Spicerian themes. Suggestions >welcome for other popular films that figure a fear of difference/paranoia >that Spicer could have seen and/or art films which play well next to tropes >of dictation, orphic myth, etc. > >thanks >John > > > > > > >---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- > ____________________________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:51:53 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ela kotkowska Subject: A Biological Dig for the Roots of Language In-Reply-To: <20040316022149.98A0C3AA466@ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit biologist tread where linguists fail: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/16/science/16LANG.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:20:39 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ela kotkowska Subject: Re: Poems for Madrid - Nthposition Poetry In April In-Reply-To: <013e01c40ade$3669fe30$98502cd9@D70HLP0J> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i can't stop thinking of metal envelopes. - ela * * * Metal has the properties of pained flesh. Poets carrying backpacks speak the only universal language they remember. Missives turn into missiles at the nudge of her elbow. A banner advertising Nike folds into Niobe, "Rid of Madness." The riverflow is Mercury. Temperature rises with the crossbeam and the third rail Runs as a conductor Rod. Dismember the last flashes of memory: Naked poets search garbage dumps sewers cemeteries For something To bandage the tongueblade Taut ropes to walkto hang Perhaps to hang Laundry Yet. Is as If. Completely White under the cunning horizon. Aimed blindly Transitional laws Draw Party lines Sharper than - Drew Parting lines Sharper than - All this time the poet busied herself counting molecules. The cell membrane was severed He thought, Liberty Death clad in colors of Dawn Completely White Right where the Accent falls Letters severe as shards Memory lost Metal was consolation almost felt. The state of Emergency inaugurated in the age of iron. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:35:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gloria Frym Subject: Re: Theresa Cha estate? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Annie, A piece of Theresa Cha's "Dictee" appears near a poem of mine on the Addison St. Poet's Walk in Berkeley (weirdly, Theresa lived next door to me 26 years ago), organized by Robert Hass. He chose 100 Berkeley poets, as well as some others who he thought somehow embody the spirit of the place. Why not contact him at UC Berkeley and ask how he got permission to have these lines literally engraved in plaques that are placed in the sidewalk? Love, Gloria On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:01:20 -0500 Annie Finch wrote: >Does anyone have an email address for permissions for Theresa Cha? >If so, please backchannel. > >Many thanks! >Annie >-- > >___________________________________ >Annie Finch >http://www.users.muohio.edu/finchar >Associate Professor >English Department >Miami University >Oxford, Ohio 45056 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 00:20:08 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Elshtain Subject: 100 Tankas From the Veblen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Beard of Bees is pleased to announce its latest chapbook composed with Gnoetry 0.1, a computer-generated poetry program for liberated poets anywhere. Please visit www.beardofbees.com to read 100 Tankas From the Veblen. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 01:29:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: open your cybermind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII new images at http://www.asondheim.org/ 4d series open your cybermind > unlock Cybermind The CYBERMIND list has been unlocked. It had been locked since 04/03/14 00:09 by sondheim@PANIX.COM. > unlock cybermind The CYBERMIND list is not locked. > set cybermind (unlock Invalid subscription option - "(UNLOCK". No action taken. > free cybermind The CYBERMIND list is not held. > unlock cybermind The CYBERMIND list is not locked. ... ... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 02:43:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: 744 characters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII 744 characters (!) flattering destroys and injures (ceremony) (disclosure) (from the) tower watch (look out) (as if) flying (be) amazed (go to the) forest bank (marsh) (you will be) fortunate (to) draw near (grammatical predicates) help (assist) -er (helper) (grave/marking post) (prince) Duke Huan regulated (the) fit (harmony) (one's) back (to the) Mong (mountain) face the Luo (river) (servant) (the) Han abuse troubled (they were?) punished (the) assistant (subordinate) sometimes flatters (sometimes) judges (the) chicken field (and the) bare (scarlet) city walls (city) (the) false road (way) destroyed Guo (the) tall crown follows (the) palanquin (the) world grants (allowance) luxury (and) wealth (under) cover (of) home injustice abundant (when) danger(ous) (or) (in) disgrace close to shame (when) favors increase resist extremity (house-pole) 1/3 meter (scale, ruler) bi-jade (circular disk with hole) negative (un- ) 1/30 meter (measurement, small) yin (shadow, moon, sexual organs, === Elder Brother Pond (and) peak stone Interrogative particle (how?) (do you) abide by promises (according to) Jin (and) Chu change supremacy Wild Goose Gate (and the) Great Wall (purple pass) Zhao (and) Wei surrounded (placed) east to west [(when) favors increase to the utmost] [...] [...] [...] [...] [...] [Mencius, Meng-ke] honest simple, plain [or: urge them to plant/grow spirits of the earth] [the] superior man [does things thoroughly and with urgency] [regulates a still nature evades passion a withered pear-tree (is) faithful (bells, chimes) (to) li-script above harmony below harmonious again assembles (a) group (of) flowers agreeing (as) mind (ch'i, spirit) linking (joining) branches all father's sister father's older brother father's younger brother already gathering the tomb ceremony arbor attainment of ability never neglect begin the year (to carry) in the south mu3 (about 1.6 acres) beginning making writing characters benevolence is built the name stands bequeath and bow doubting the sections bequeath them excellent way (plan) blessings (fortune) (are caused by) virtuous happiness change covers grass and weeds (vegetation) city (and) village flourish (in the) summer cliff (and) cave (mountain) dim (and obscure) (and) deep (obscure, climb the stairs accept the high steps of the throne closest to Doctrine of the Mean (Middle Way) clouds ascend, galloping, sending rain cold comes the heat goes console the people strike down the guilty contain (form) (and) stop if (one is) thinking covering the person issues (giving birth to) create order not separation cut (and) polish precepts (and) rules dawn (early in the morning) prosper warm (and pure) deception the talk of the other (is) brief deliberate beginnings sincerity, fidelity beautiful, beauty devote one's efforts to now sow and (reap) gather harvest devotion follows (rules) the end (of) life dew forms becoming frost disaster (catastrophe) depends on (is caused by) the accumulation (of) doors sealed eight (of the) counties drawing (painting) draw (paint) birds (and) animals drive (the wheel) hubs shake (the) tassels drum (play) the lute (25-string se4) blow the sheng1 (mouth reed early (minute) dawn who (is) conducting business east (and) west two capitals employ (the) army (with the) utmost skill engrave (the) monument inscribe (the) inscription (artist's signature) enter (the internal) music (play music) the mother (of) appearance evil examine oneself (when) ridiculed admonished expel the throne yield the country face (meet, confront) the deep tread (put on shoes) lightly faith the cause of should be covered (protect your faith) feminine, secret) is (just so) (to be) emulated (compete with) figured beautiful cloth wraps around (the) Han (Chinese) blessing, four filial piety serves as (accepts) the end of power (the power of others) fishscales hidden in depths feathers circling above floating Wei (river) according to (seize) the Jing (Sheu river) follow the idea and change (your) heart (mind) four (wantonly) bamboo mats establish (a) place four great five (is) normal fragrance) from 7 to 9 in the morning the constellations line up it's a measure word, galloping reputation (gallops) (across) reds (and) blues (painting) gate go and increase the chant gold gives birth beautiful water good (and) wonderful government rooted in regard to agriculture great open country (and) Dong Ting Lake guard the truth with full intention harness (the) vehicle (palanquin) prosper quickly heaven earth black yellow :: heaven is black, earth is yellow help (the) weak assist (help up) (the) falling (leaning) historian Yu2 grasps straight-forward hold strictly steer properly hold the boundary talk and test with scalding homes allowed (for) (salary of) one thousand soldiers (troops) honorable trade (the place) of foundation important matters of State] in addition to work obey government in autumn the harvesting in winter the hiding, concealing in disintegration reliance on the self (self-reliance) (is) long instrument) integrity (justice) gives back honesty intercalary timing the leftover residue becomes one tenth measurement of jade emanates out from Kun mountain summit kind humanity (conceal) compassion kindnesses know what passes the certainty of change lacquered write (on) wall (lining) the classics (jing1) learn outstanding ascend (to) official (service) legal principles like (a) pine(s) this prospers like (an) orchid(s) this fragrance like (the same as) (a) child compared (to) (a) son (child) listen to sound observe (inquire) reason love raise up the hosts the leaders make friends join (and) divide many scholars just so [really] peaceful (tranquil) many vegetables mustard ginger meditation (ch'an, Zen) lord (master, chief) speaks (from the, in the) men imitate pleasing genius minister prostrate the army barbarians mountain ancestral (is) exalted Tai music particularly is precious (and) humble my artful planting of glutinous millet and millet near and far one reality netherworld) nine provinces (emperor) Yu marked one hundred prefectures Qin merged (i.e. they were enlarged) particle as well pictures colorful immortals (hermits) (and) spirits pillar please the rank (of office) bind yourself poetry the praise of small (lamb) sheep (sheep) policy merits profusion (of) (the) truths (reality) proclaim (announce) (your) might (power) (across the) desert prudent all good ancient laws question or problem ration of the guest returning to the emperor respect (connector / alone) the rearing of children restraint, conquering (of) study makes (creates) the sage rise up exterminate quite (the) magistrates (shepherds) rites as well are valuable and low say diction (classical rhetoric) (with) quiet, peaceful determination silk) sky and valley proclaim (one's) fame so the lu bamboo pitches shift position open speak strictly (accurately) give respect speech (and) emotion (of the) warrior man, population supreme ruler survive by means of the wild pear taxes in the ripe (grain) tribute in the new (grain) the cap changes distrust the stars the capital (of) the father (parallels) the (business) affairs (of) the the ch'in 4-stringed instrument the cosmos the cosmos are vast a desolate wasteland the depths (abyss) clear (transparent) take up (create) (a) reflection the double-edged dagger furiously named the huge gate-tower the empty chamber hall (public room) learn (review lessons) carefully the external (foreign) accept pass on instructions the fire dragon the emperor teaching the first stem (a) curtain (notebook, album) against (answer, reply) the the government bureaus skeins command together (mutually) the heart moves the weary mind the husband chants (calls upon) the wife follows the ink (of) sorrow, sadness (on silk) is printed (sadness stains the the left attains holds brightness the official (government) hall (a) tray (with) plum (blossoms) (strong the origin of shape proper (upright) model the path (of) the ancient swordsman the scholar tree minister of state the pearl called the light of darkness the phoenix cries in the bamboo the phoenix the royal official men the right (direction) passes through (a) broad interior the river flows not (un) stopping (ceaselessly) the rolls greatly nothing (in the) end the sea salted the rivers fresh the sun fills the moon fills the sun sets in the west it's dusk the third stem give alms (cottage, abandon) drawn near (beside) awaken the tool (utensil) of desire (is) trouble (quantity) measure-word the treasure of fruit plum apple the white colt grazes there the wicked suffer setbacks loss of money then uniforms, wearing robes < clothing skirts < clothing they spread out think very much \ of each other elder brother younger brother to develop reward dismiss, expel and ascend toil modestly cautiously trample (the) earth join (the) alliance treasure tributary of Wei small stream that one an offiial rank (head of Wei) trust attain a myriad (10,000) directions (square) trying a case at court query the way urge them respect to maintain (establish) view (the) form distinguish (the) type view, scenery lines tied or lined-up wisdom where (particle) (exclamatory or interrogative) particle interrogative wilderness (vast, spacious) distant continuous (and) remote women adore chastity unyielding yao tang has predicted years __ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 02:53:37 -0500 Reply-To: Millie Niss on eathlink Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss on eathlink Subject: Re: Poems for Madrid - Nthpostion Poetry In April MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I tried this but everything that came out of my computer was trite, banal, too slight or too portentous for the task. It is so hard for to write modern, dense, subtle poetry about an event so unsubtle. I think perhaps a little jingle with sentimental rhymes would do better for the occasion, would be more comfort to the grieving. It seems almost rude to write a poem about itself, about poetry, which calls attention to its form and diction, when all the attention in this case shouold be on the victims of the tragedy. I liked the poem that Harriet Zinnes wrote, though. It doesn't seem to suffer from any of the above faults. The only thing that makes this latest event bearable is that it seems as if it will lead a country away from an unjust war, rather than feeding the fires of bigoted patriotism, as "our" 911 did. I couldn't write about 911, either, although I have my "911 poem," written several months _before_ the evsnt, whihc was very spooky: No Time for Sorrow this is no time for sorrow said the window-washer, removing the fingerprints of the man who fell this is no time for sorrow thought the frantic stockbrokers (all in unison) as they watched the market plummet: one was only just recovering from a life-threatening rhinoceros attack (acquired on a recent safari paid for by a bonus which will not recur) this is no time for sorrow the Ayatollah said echoed by Pat Robertson and all the members of the 700 Club this is no time for sorrow shouted the mothers of deaf children there will be no sorrow for the infertile couple whose goldfish died despite having the most expensive veterinarian on the Upper East Side (during the toilet-side memorial service they may be forgiven for wondering if the swirling would go in the other direction in the Southern Hemisphere) this is no time for sorrow said the mortuary artist, the embalmer, and the priest this is no time to sorrow for the dead passengers of the Titanic (their descendants may be forgiven their private mourning) the parks will be full and the churches empty and war-widows will go swimming to hide their tears when it is time for sorrow the women will all gather at Columbus Circle and some previous mayor no one is mad at any more will make a speech and everyone will wear white when it is time for sorrow the keening will begin on Lexington Avenue (an ancient crone from Latvia will have been imported to teach the yuppies how to keen) and people in penthouse apartments will have to leave their roof-gardens to avoid the sound when it is time for sorrow all the children who received 100 on their spelling tests will be publicly whipped and grown men will feed the pigeons and crows, shooing away the rarer songbirds when it is time for sorrow there will be a used toilet-paper parade in lieu of ticker tape and people will temporarily be allowed to drop rotten tomatoes from the observation deck of the Empire State Building (five men will miss tucking their children in that night as they do mandatory overtime replacing the mesh fence) when it is time for sorrow symphonies will play only Mahler and barbershop quartets will be outlawed when it is time for sorrow the bereaved will rejoice and cry openly and the neighbors who always overflow the tub into their ceiling will join with them in their sobbing ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Swift" To: Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 5:20 PM Subject: Poems for Madrid - Nthpostion Poetry In April Please forward a call for poems Nthposition.com in London is calling for "poems for Madrid". A selection will be published online in our second-anniversary April issue, in several weeks. The poems will be dedicated to the people of Madrid, Spain; and their friends and family throughout Europe; and the world. The editors are open to a variety of responses, themes, and perspectives. This is a fragile time caught between mourning and protest, rage and sorrow, loss and achievement (as in the recent Spanish elections). Europe is unsteady after its "own 9/11" - three minutes of silence today observed across the continent. After silence, what shall we say, what poems will we write? The "poems for Madrid" will follow the e-books "100 poets against the war"; "Times new roman" and "poems for Lord Hutton" as a tradition of sharing voices, concerns, struggle, hope and art, through poetry, across the world, in the near-instant of the Internet. Please send the poems to: nthposition c/o todd@toddswift.com peace. Todd Todd Swift Poetry Editor London, UK http://www.toddswift.com http://www.nthposition.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 02:26:31 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Springtail Subject: At The Nacreous Oughts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Four lines of Charles Spear. A Debate on Plagiarism. And more! http://springtail.blogspot.com K. S. _________________________________________________________________ Surf the net and talk on the phone with Xtra JetStream @ http://xtra.co.nz/jetstream ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:40:18 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: short article on Dreamtime Village Comments: To: dreamtime@yahoogroups.com, randomART@yahoogroups.com, WRYTING-L Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For anyone that is interested, I've put up a pdf of a short article which just appeared in the Utne Reader's Indie Culture 2004: http://www.dreamtimevillage.org/articles/dtv_utne_reader_dec03.pdf ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:48:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Shankar, Ravi (English)" Subject: Re: Plagiarizing President MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable He's moved past pastiche into performance art as evinced by his = impersonation of a police officer a few years ago, fake badge in = billfold, pulling over speeders to censure, one of whom turned out to be = a Central student who reported him. He got a reprimand then, and by the = looks of things, he will be granted another pass. Not sure how to = justify my own policies on plagiarism in the classroom when such a = precedent is being set. =20 *************** Ravi Shankar=20 Poet-in-Residence Assistant Professor CCSU - English Dept. 860-832-2766 shankarr@ccsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:22:34 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Re: short article on Dreamtime Village In-Reply-To: <769E8D30-774F-11D8-BB22-000393ABDF48@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII mIEKAL aND... co-founder of the community and a a guy who likes to reverse the usual relationship with capital now i get it. Where can I find out more about theories of edible urban lanscapes? By this I'm pretty sure you dont' mean the Land of Dairy Queen (where I worked as a groundskeeper in high school). kevin -- --------------------------- http://paulmartintime.ca/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:24:36 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Colony or Country ? The future of Canada-US Relations Tour MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Colony or Country? The Future of Canada-U.S. Relations FREE PUBLIC FORUM! By trying to "get in good" or "have closer relations" with their U.S. buddies, Canadian corporations and with some political parties in tow - are trading away our independence. Find out more about the corporate plan for Canada-U.S. relations, and what you can do to stop it! Coming to a city near you! 1.. VANCOUVER, BC Date/Time: Monday, March 8, 2004, 7PM Location: Maritime Labour Centre, 1880 Triumph Street (off Victoria at Hastings) Featuring: Maude Barlow, Council of Canadians; Murray Dobbin, Author of "Paul Martin, CEO for Canada?"; Alfred Webre, Institute for Cooperation in Space (ICIS); Chief Garry John, chief of the Seton Lake Band and the Chair and spokesperson of the St'at'imc Chiefs Council 2.. EDMONTON, AB Date/Time: Tuesday, March 9, 2004, 7PM Location: Maier Learning Centre - Engineering Teaching and Learning Centre (ETLC) - University of Alberta (116th Street & 91st Avenue) Featuring: Maude Barlow, The Council of Canadians; Murray Dobbin, Author of "Paul Martin, CEO for Canada?"; Gordon Laxer, The Parkland Institute 3.. SASKATOON, SK Date/Time: Thursday, March 11, 2004, 7PM Location: Broadway Theatre, 715 Broadway Avenue Featuring: Maude Barlow, The Council of Canadians; Murray Dobbin, Author of "Paul Martin, CEO for Canada?"; Nettie Wiebe, International Farm Leader 4.. FREDERICTON, NB Date/Time: Monday, March 15, 2004, 7PM Location: McLaggan Hall, room 105 (nursing building), University of New Brunswick Featuring: Maude Barlow, The Council of Canadian; Tony Clarke, The Polaris Institute; Thom Workman, Professor of Political Science, University of New Brunswick 5.. HALIFAX, NS Date/Time: Tuesday, March 16, 2004, 7PM - Halifax, NS Location: Pier 21 National Historic Site - Theatre, 1055 Marginal Road Featuring: Maude Barlow, The Council of Canadian; Tony Clarke, The Polaris Institute; Andrew David Terris, ARTS NOVA Cultural Research and Consulting 6.. MONTREAL, QC Date/Time: Friday, March 26, 2004, 7PM - Montréal, QC Location: Room A-0M050, Hubert-Aquin Hall, UQÀM - 400 Ste-Catherine St. East Featuring: Maude Barlow, The Council of Canadians, Monique Simard, President, Alternatives 7.. TORONTO, ON Date/Time: Tuesday, March 30, 2004, 7:30PM - Toronto, ON Location: Bloor St. United Church, 300 Bloor St. West Featuring: Maude Barlow, The Council of Canadians; Linda McQuaig, Author and Toronto Star columnist; Jian Ghomeshi, Host, CBC's PLAY; Amina Sherazee, Immigration Lawyer, Project Threadbare For more information visit www.canadians.org -- The Council of Canadians 502-151 Slater Street, Ottawa, ON K1P 5H3. Tel: (613) 233-2773; Toll-free: 1-800-387-7177 Fax: (613) 233-6776 inquiries@canadians.org www.canadians.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:57:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Davies Subject: Re: I.D'd In-Reply-To: <00a301c407e7$c76325a0$da66fea9@Barnette> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Glad to see all this pro-Markson propaganda. The latest panel in what I take to be a trilogy, _Vanishing Point_, is every bit as great as Reader's Block and This Is Not etc. Wittgenstein's Nephew is probably his most famous, and it's pretty wild. Dalkey Archive has reprinted an earlier novel called Springer's Progress, excellent but perhaps not as thrilling a read as the later books. Has anyone here read Markson's The Ballad of Dingus Magee, which I take to be his first novel? He also wrote a fat book on Malcolm Lowry of all people (and btw, don't believe those rumours of ML's murder -- I have it on good authority that he died playing the ukelele, possibly on the Bowery), lists three "entertainments" in his bibliography (anyone read those?), and apparently has issued a Collected Poems. Any word on the poems, which I've never seen? >George (and Kevin and All) >I got a copy today! I'd heard of it but hadn't known it was a sequel. Now as >soon as I finish student evaluations... >Renee > >> >> The sequel, This is Not a Novel, is just as good. >> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:07:43 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: short article on Dreamtime Village In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kevin: Good to hear from you. The search term to use is "urban permaculture". I have friends in a lot of cityscapes that are doing just that. This is a link to an average sort of article: http://www.pathtofreedom.com/backtobasics/agriculture/ article_urbanpermaculture.shtml There are much better writings, especially on the theory level, & a tremendous amount of examples... mIEKAL where's the land of dairy queen? there are several very well known high schools which have edible landscaping, theyre names are escaping me right now. On Tuesday, March 16, 2004, at 07:52 AM, Kevin Hehir wrote: > mIEKAL aND... co-founder of the community and a > a guy who likes to reverse the usual relationship with capital > > now i get it. > > Where can I find out more about theories of edible urban lanscapes? By > this I'm pretty sure you dont' mean the Land of Dairy Queen (where I > worked as a groundskeeper in high school). > > kevin > -- > --------------------------- > http://paulmartintime.ca/ > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:45:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Spicer/Phillip K. Dick Query Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Alan DeNiro posted this query on his blog and I wrote him this letter in reply Dear Alan, I'm writing to you about your Phillip K. Dick question that came up on the poetics list. I've been obsessed with PKD as long as I remember and very likely read most of his early stories as they came out in the fifties as a kid. I pride myself on my knowledge of his work, but I am so grateful to you for raising a question that has been in the back of my mind for years. I have read and reread all the PDK books partly in search for this very story. Every time I asked my wife about it, she was sure I was thinking of UBIK. But I knew it wasn't. Possibly the UBIK PKD was imagining may be emerging in the being of Google, because I simply asked it the question, "What is the story by Phillip K. Dick in which all of reality is turned into pieces of paper." The answer was available here http://www.philipkdickfans.com/frank/yves-tooj.htm which is: "Time Out of Joint" - apparently it is the only book of PK Dick that I have read and no longer have in my possession- all this time thinking I had them all! warm best wishes, Nick Piombino ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:51:32 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Corman obit in the NY Times MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 80,000 unpublished poems!! Ron ------------- March 16, 2004 Cid Corman, 79, Poet, Editor and Translator Who Lived in Japan, Dies By WOLFGANG SAXON Cid Corman, a prolific American poet, editor and translator who lived in Japan for the last four decades, died on Friday at a hospital in Kyoto. He was 79. His death was reported on the Web site for English Teachers in Japan. Richard Aaron, his archivist, said that Mr. Corman had been in a coma since undergoing heart surgery in January. Starting with juvenilia in the 1940's, Mr. Corman published more than 150 titles, from hardcover books to slim hand-sewn, rice-paper selections holding 16 poems each. A sizable part of his output is included in a series he called "of," 350-page volumes that started appearing in 1990 (Lapis Press); a sixth and final volume is pending. In addition, Mr. Aaron said, Mr. Corman wrote about 80,000 unpublished poems. He said that for nearly 60 years Mr. Corman had written constantly, both poetry and correspondence. In 1951 Mr. Corman started Origin, a press and journal appearing at irregular intervals and distributed by Longhouse, Publishers & Booksellers, in Vermont. It featured fresh voices like the Black Mountain poets and helped establish poets like Robert Creeley, Theodore Enslin, Denise Levertov, Lorine Niedecker, Charles Olson and Philip Whalen. With Origin, Mr. Corman also provided an outlet for new poets from abroad. Literate in several languages, he translated many of them himself. He was born Sidney Corman in Roxbury, Mass., and studied at Boston Latin School. He graduated Phi Beta Kappa from Tufts College (now University) in 1945 and did postgraduate work at the University of Michigan, the University of North Carolina and, as a Fulbright scholar, at the Sorbonne in 1954 and 1955. His first book, "subluna," was privately printed in 1944. His first professionally published book was "A Thanksgiving Eclogue to Theocritus" (Sparrow, 1954). Some of his more recent works include "Just for Now" and "The Despairs," published in 2001; "How Now" (1995); "No News" (1992); "And the World" (1987); and "Aegis: Selected Poems, 1970-1980" (Station Hill Press, 1983). Mr. Corman is survived by his wife of 39 years, Shizumi Konishi. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:21:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: NEW Contributor List at Big Bridge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael: This is much better. The pictures loaded far too slow. Best Regards, Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Rothenberg" To: Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 2:42 PM Subject: NEW Contributor List at Big Bridge > Big Bridge has added a CONTRIBUTORS LIST to the site. > I think this will help readers explore the archives with less hassle. Check it out! > > BIG BRIDGE > www.bigbridge.org > > Also, if you are a contributor and there is something in your information that is incorrect please let me know. > > Best, > Michael Rothenberg > walterblue@bigbridge.org > Big Bridge > www.bigbridge.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:26:31 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cyrill Duneau Subject: k'ek'los Comments: To: "CYBERMIND@LISTSERV.AOL.COM" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 'I saw red, one more sacred lover that I shot dead.' You You may You may wonder You may wonder why You may wonder why Paris Hilton You may wonder why Paris Hilton is studying Kabbalah fear of getting fired is a motivation to get out of bed uncle / nephew relationship to nightlife in Tel-Aviv state of health, physically and mentally disseminated throughout Hong Kong kill with pesticides d) Remark: Global cessation. Illiterate, able to read street numbers, count up to 100 and to make simple computations before the stroke in the southern ports of Iraq Purge Deleted - Instant-Replay your favourite moments in life a tiresome delusion for cameramen/perverts personal sense of revenge at being Jews who are adamantly AGAINST zionism bogus>>>///homemade rafts, alien smugglers, or falsified visas bogus>>>///total: 7.15 deaths/1,000 live births bogus>>>///ECLAC, FAO, G-77, IAEA, ICAO, ICC, ICRM, IFAD, IFRCS, IHO, ILO, IMO, Interpol, IOC, IOM (observer), ISO, ITU, LAES, LAIA, NAM, OAS (excluded from formal participation since 1962), OPANAL, OPCW, PCA, UN, UNCTAD, UNESCO, UNIDO, UPU, WCL, WCO, WFTU, WHO, WIPO, WMO, WToO, WTrO If voting changed anything they'd make it illegal, "the unfamiliar seeping in through the chinks in the walls" PKD once said. But it is here and now, a simple piano piece based around a theme, an uphill battle the next one -- Vichy, France needle sharing Situationists don't cry US Green Card lottery processing to a veteran's cemetery in the Seattle area a few years ago with my ex girlfriend, Retrograde amnesia for several hours, post-traumatic amnesia about a week. No recent memory defect. gesture through digital media Japanese-only 60s recordings in the amygdala activate conscious processes in the cortex a stuffed pig signal dissolves completely into noise way beyond the trillions two levels of reality are interdependent: Zapatisterne paa Zocaloen 13,000,000 certificates, one for each child doomed to die of hunger and lack of medicine in 1995 false U.S. reports leading to U.S. attacks six and half in solitary - contemplated suicide new Leftist k'ek'los ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:39:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Re: NEW Contributor List at Big Bridge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joel, Thanks for the feedback. I don't know why it took me so long to figure it out. Best, Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Weishaus" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:21 AM Subject: Re: NEW Contributor List at Big Bridge > Michael: > > This is much better. > The pictures loaded far too slow. > > Best Regards, > Joel > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Rothenberg" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 2:42 PM > Subject: NEW Contributor List at Big Bridge > > > > Big Bridge has added a CONTRIBUTORS LIST to the site. > > I think this will help readers explore the archives with less hassle. > Check it out! > > > > BIG BRIDGE > > www.bigbridge.org > > > > Also, if you are a contributor and there is something in your information > that is incorrect please let me know. > > > > Best, > > Michael Rothenberg > > walterblue@bigbridge.org > > Big Bridge > > www.bigbridge.org > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:53:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: Plagiarizing President In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed He's certainly not the only president plagiarizing! So far, none of my students has thought to tell me that he had failed to "vet" his text. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "It don't sound so terrible -- " --Emily Dickinson Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:00:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: { brad brace } Subject: 80+ hours of flat fusion field recordings Comments: To: randomART@yahoogroups.com Comments: cc: dreamtime@yahoogroups.com, void@slab.org In-Reply-To: <769E8D30-774F-11D8-BB22-000393ABDF48@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII --- bbs: brad brace sound --- --- http://63.170.215.11:8000 --- The 12hr-ISBN-JPEG Project >>>> extended since 1994 <<<< "... easily the most venerable net-art project of all time." + + + serial ftp://ftp.eskimo.com/u/b/bbrace + + + eccentric ftp:// (your-site-here!) + + + continuous hotline://artlyin.ftr.va.com.au + + + hypermodern ftp://ftp.rdrop.com/pub/users/bbrace + + + imagery ftp:// (your-site-here!) News: alt.binaries.pictures.12hr alt.binaries.pictures.misc alt.binaries.pictures.fine-art.misc alt.12hr . 12hr email subscriptions => http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/buy-into.html . Other | Mirror: http://www.eskimo.com/~bbrace/bbrace.html Projects | Reverse Solidus: http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/ | http://bbrace.net { brad brace } <<<<< bbrace@eskimo.com >>>> ~finger for pgp ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:17:24 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Theresa Cha estate? In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Walter Lew - who is occasionally on this list - most probably knows. If that does not work, I know Richard Barnes,the photographer - who was married to Theresa Cha at the time of her murder. I could ask him, if you would like. Otherwise you could call the UC Berkeley Art Museum. They did the show of her work though I do not know if it was originated there and whether or not they were responsible for the catalog. Stephen Vincent > Annie, > > A piece of Theresa Cha's "Dictee" appears near a poem of mine on the Addison > St. Poet's Walk in Berkeley (weirdly, Theresa lived next door to me 26 years > ago), organized by Robert Hass. He chose 100 Berkeley poets, as well as some > others who he thought somehow embody the spirit of the place. Why not contact > him at UC Berkeley and ask how he got permission to have these lines literally > engraved in plaques that are placed in the sidewalk? > > Love, Gloria > > > > > > > On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:01:20 -0500 > Annie Finch wrote: >> Does anyone have an email address for permissions for Theresa Cha? >> If so, please backchannel. >> >> Many thanks! >> Annie >> -- >> >> ___________________________________ >> Annie Finch >> http://www.users.muohio.edu/finchar >> Associate Professor >> English Department >> Miami University >> Oxford, Ohio 45056 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:21:55 -0800 Reply-To: Denise Enck Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Denise Enck Subject: Michael McClure & Jerome Rothenberg, Today & Thursday in SF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Michael McClure & Jerome Rothenberg Tuesday, March 16, 7pm The Booksmith, 1644 Haight Street, San Francisco Jerome Rothenberg and Michael McClure celebrate the publication of release of Andre Breton: Selections, translated by Jerome Rothenberg, & published by University of California Press. Founder of the Surrealist movement, André Breton has also come to be recognized as one of the twentieth century's most innovative and influential poets. The inaugural volume in the Poets for the Millennium series, André Breton offers the most comprehensive selection available in English of Breton's poetry, along with a selection of his major prose writings. The translations, a number of which are published here for the first time, are by some of the most notable poets in our language, including David Antin, Paul Auster, Samuel Beckett, Michael Benedikt, Robert Duncan, David Gascoyne, and Charles Simic. This volume also includes an extensive biographical and thematic introduction by Mark Polizzotti, which sets the poems in the context of Breton's life and overall career. Michael McClure & Jerome Rothenberg Thursday, March 18, 7pm City Lights Books, San Francisco Jerome Rothenberg and Michael McClure celebrate the release of Maria Sabina: Selections, translated by Jerome Rothenberg, & published by University of California Press. A shaman and visionary-not a poet in any ordinary sense-María Sabina lived out her life in the Oaxacan mountain village of Huautla de Jiménez, and yet her words, always sung or spoken, have carried far and wide, a principal instance and a powerful reminder of how poetry can arise in a context far removed from literature as such. Seeking cures through language-with the help of Psilocybe mushrooms, said to be the source of language itself-she was, as Henry Munn describes her, "a genius [who] emerges from the soil of the communal, religious-therapeutic folk poetry of a native Mexican campesino people." She may also have been, in the words of the Mexican poet Homero Aridjis, "the greatest visionary poet in twentieth-century Latin America." These selections include a generous presentation from Sabina's recorded chants and a complete English translation of her oral autobiography, her vida, as written and arranged in her native language by her fellow Mazatec Alvaro Estrada. Accompanying essays and poems include an introduction to "The Life of María Sabina" by Estrada, an early description of a nighttime "mushroom velada" by the ethnomycologist R. Gordon Wasson, an essay by Henry Munn relating the language of Sabina's chants to those of other Mazatec shamans, and more. http://www.McClure-Manzarek.com Visit www.mcclure-manzarek.com/news.html to keep up on the latest events & news! Empty Mirror Books & Distribution www.emptymirrorbooks.com modern poetry, the Beat Generation, & the work of Michael McClure Denise Enck - Quanta Webdesign www.quantawebdesign.com affordable custom websites for the arts, organizations & individuals Post Office Box 972, Mukilteo, WA 98275-0972 USA toll-free fax & message phone: 1-877-570-6448 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:24:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Cid Corman Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The obit. finally showed up in this morning's NY Times -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "It don't sound so terrible -- " --Emily Dickinson Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:48:39 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Traffic Subject: k. prevallet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Looking to contact Kristin Prevallet. Thanks, Elizabeth Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Executive Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCA 1111 -- 8th Street San Francisco, CA 94107 415.551.9278 http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:44:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Yaddo 1950--Corman, WCW and others MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If anyone's interested in receiving a jpg file containing a photo taken at Yaddo in 1950, please let me know. Backchannel only, por favor, using subject line above. Photo will come as an attachment. Included in the group photo are Cid Corman, Theodore Roethke, Harvey Shapiro, Richard Eberhart, Jessamyn West, Ben Weber, W. C. Williams and Flossie Williams, among others. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard The Sonnet Project: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/The%20Sonnet%20Project.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:51:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Julie Kizershot Subject: Re: Theresa Cha estate? In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit No doubt Constance Lewallen, at Berkeley Art Museum, who curated the Cha show, and edited the catalog "The Dream of the Audience" would also know-- Julie Kizershot on 03/16/2004 10:17 AM, Stephen Vincent at steph484@PACBELL.NET wrote: > Walter Lew - who is occasionally on this list - most probably knows. > If that does not work, I know Richard Barnes,the photographer - who was > married to Theresa Cha at the time of her murder. I could ask him, if you > would like. Otherwise you could call the UC Berkeley Art Museum. They did > the show of her work though I do not know if it was originated there and > whether or not they were responsible for the catalog. > > Stephen Vincent > > >> Annie, >> >> A piece of Theresa Cha's "Dictee" appears near a poem of mine on the Addison >> St. Poet's Walk in Berkeley (weirdly, Theresa lived next door to me 26 years >> ago), organized by Robert Hass. He chose 100 Berkeley poets, as well as some >> others who he thought somehow embody the spirit of the place. Why not >> contact >> him at UC Berkeley and ask how he got permission to have these lines >> literally >> engraved in plaques that are placed in the sidewalk? >> >> Love, Gloria >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:01:20 -0500 >> Annie Finch wrote: >>> Does anyone have an email address for permissions for Theresa Cha? >>> If so, please backchannel. >>> >>> Many thanks! >>> Annie >>> -- >>> >>> ___________________________________ >>> Annie Finch >>> http://www.users.muohio.edu/finchar >>> Associate Professor >>> English Department >>> Miami University >>> Oxford, Ohio 45056 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:55:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: I.D'd In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Glad to see all this pro-Markson propaganda. The latest panel in what I >take to be a trilogy, _Vanishing Point_, is every bit as great as Reader's >Block and This Is Not etc. Wittgenstein's Nephew is probably his most >famous, and it's pretty wild. Dalkey Archive has reprinted an earlier novel >called Springer's Progress, excellent but perhaps not as thrilling a read >as the later books. Has anyone here read Markson's The Ballad of Dingus >Magee, which I take to be his first novel? He also wrote a fat book on >Malcolm Lowry of all people (and btw, don't believe those rumours of ML's >murder -- I have it on good authority that he died playing the ukelele, >possibly on the Bowery), lists three "entertainments" in his bibliography >(anyone read those?), and apparently has issued a Collected Poems. Any word >on the poems, which I've never seen? Yep, I have read all those things, except the Lowry book (which was his thesis) but I have a copy of it. In my novel Shoot! I took two characters of Markson's Dingus Mcgee novel and imported them to Canada for a chapter. Ther was a movie made of that novel, which was ridiculous because Mcgee is a teenager, and in the movie he is played by Frank Sinatra. Well, if you forget the novel the movie can be fun. Epitaph for a Tramp and Epitaph for a Deadbeat are straight ahead hardboiled crime novels, in cheap little paperback editions, so straight ahead that hey are almost parodies, great fun. I always thought that his most famous novel was Go Down Slow, a Lowryesque novel set in mexico. Also set in Mexico was another entertainment, something or other Miss Doll. gb > >>George (and Kevin and All) >>I got a copy today! I'd heard of it but hadn't known it was a sequel. Now as >>soon as I finish student evaluations... > >Renee > > > >> > >> The sequel, This is Not a Novel, is just as good. > >> -- George Bowering Can tie left shoelace. 303 Fielden Ave. Port Colborne. ON, L3K 4T5 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:29:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Indie Press Showcase Reminder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Come out and play in the snow tonight Tuesday, March 16 2004 6:30pm Indie Press Showcase at the Brooklyn Brewery with Soft Skull, Akashic & Seven Stories! Brooklyn Brewery Brewers Row 79 North 11th Street Brooklyn, NY 11211 Telephone: 718-486-7422 www.brooklynbrewery.com (a short walk from the L train stop at Bedford in Williamsburg) Douglas Martin will read from Haiku Year with other special guest Soft Skull authors, including Hal Sirowitz, Jennifer Knox, Wanda Phipps and Daniel Nester! Authors from Akashic Press will include: Benjamin Weissman (author of HEADLESS), Dennis Cooper (author of MY LOOSE THREAD) and Robert Arellano (author of DOM DIMAIO OF LA PLATA). Authors from Seven Stories will read to boot! for info. contact: Kristin Pulkkinen Publicity Associate Soft Skull Press 71 Bond Street Brooklyn, NY 11217 Ph: (718) 643-1599 Fax: (718) 643-0879 kristin@softskull.com Forgive me if you've gotten duplicates of this -- Wanda Phipps Hey, don't forget to check out my website MIND HONEY http://users.rcn.com/wanda.interport (and if you have already try it again) poetry, music and more! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:34:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Rumble Subject: Re: Juliana Spahr's new book In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" "The book is subtle in many ways" Indeed -- I just picked up a copy while in San Francisco, and it's very, very good. Though one part of it left me with some questions and ambivalence. The last several pages of the manuscript are a lucid narrative by Spahr detailing the history of the project. It's a fascinating story: detailed, generous, thoughtful. At the end though, I felt sort of disappointed in the same way as when I read the front (or end?) notes Jeanette Winterson wrote to her book _Gut Symmetries_. The other echo, though distorted, was of Elliot's notes in the Wasteland of course. I am disappointed because I think that the process of discovery that I value when reading poetry has been short-circuited by the poet's explanation. The implication of this thought seems to be that I must accept the narrative the poet delivers. I've also been considering my initial reaction to the afterwords. I thought of the poems as being a separate entity from the afterwords, two distinct pieces: one being art/poetry, the other being exposition/prose without the same sort of artistic desire. I then started thinking about how the two pieces could both be reconciled. That this is, in fact, one complete work without distinction between the two sections. If so, how do the obvious contrasts comment on each other? What do they mean in relation to a book whose very appropriate title says it all? "things of each possible relation hashing against one another" It's a terrific book -- I'm sorry to be so vague in my praise, but the thing that currently compels me about the book is my ambivalence. So what about the explanation of poems? Art? Lies? Inconsequential because readers make up the meaning (and the text?) as they go along anyway? Ken At 11:20 AM 3/13/2004 -0500, you wrote: >has a virtue that might be overlooked: the print on the page implies a >powerful vocal delivery, it seems to me, for example > >like the sonar of the dolphin and the sonar of the blowing >like the piece of the end of the bird and the piece of the end of the >dolphin/ >like the wings of the butterfly and the bird >like hummingbird of the suction and the suction of the butterfly >like the language of the human being and the hummingbird of the language > >The book is subtle in many ways, and deserves a detailed review, and >surely one should appear in Jonathan Skinner's ECOPOETICS, given Spahr's >explicitly distancing herself from most "nature" poetry and turning toward >ethnobotany, among other concerns (Dasein/Sein?) > >The title is: > >things of each possible relation hashing against one another > >Published by Palm Press www.palmpress.org > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:40:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Traffic Subject: Alexander & Dahlen at SPT, this Fri 3/19 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Small Press Traffic presents Friday, March 19, 2004 at 7:30 p.m. Charles Alexander & Beverly Dahlen Charles Alexander joins us in celebration of the publication of his new collection, Near or Random Acts, by Singing Horse Press. Previous works include Hopeful Buildings and Arc of Light / Dark Matter. He also edited Talking The Boundless Book: Art, Language, and the Book Arts. He lives in Tucson, where he guides Chax Press into various poetic and artistic publications and collaborations; he also collaborates frequently with Anne Bunker and Chuck Koesters of Tucson's Orts Theatre of Dance. "the whole chorus of familiars?". San Francisco?s own Beverly Dahlen joins us in celebration of her much anticipated new book A-Reading Spicer & 18 Sonnets, just out from Chax Press. Her legendary earlier works include A Reading 1-7 (Momo's Press. 1985); A Reading 8-10 (Chax Press, 1992); and A Reading (11-17) (Potes & Poets Press, 1989). From 18 Sonnets: "the dusty dove is said to coo its heart a trickling machine?". $5-10 sliding scale, free to SPT members & CCA community Timken Hall, CCA SF Campus 1111 -- 8th Street (just off the intersection of 16th & Wisconsin) up next: Rae Armantrout & Kaia Sand, 4/9 Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Executive Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCA 1111 -- 8th Street San Francisco, CA 94107 415.551.9278 http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:46:44 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: a Marxian model of the social in poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The posts between Mike Magee and Louis Cabri were interesting in that Emerson surfaced. I happen to be reading Peter S. Field's book The Crisis of the Standing Order: Clerical Intellectuals and Cultural Authority in Massachusetts, 1780-1833 (U of Massachusetts Press, 1998). In it Fields traces the mutation of Congregationalist churches into Unitarian associations. In the fifty year period that Fields is working within he also notes the rapid transition from fiery ministry to cultural authority. The turn from God, to poetry and other arts, as a source of standing in the community. The wealthy bought and paid for literary ministers who could entertain them with high wit, so that the literary ministers would in turn tell them it was ok in a religious sense to be rich, so long as they were moral, too. The two groups exchanged long dinners, and toasted one another. So in this sense the arts came to also be a buttress to the wealth of the great families whose children attended Harvard in that it showed that they deserved their place through the production of geniuses. Emerson's father was a minister in one of the most important churches in Boston. Slowly the idea of God goes out the window, and the Boston Brahmin is born -- the idea of the cultured individual as deserving of their place in a stratified class society. The idea! Under the older Congregational arrangement the communicants (those who had earned the right to communion) also chose the minister. In the new churches that were turning Unitarian those who owned their own pews chose the ministers. Fields comments, "The pew proprietor arrangement under which only those who could afford to purchase a seat were welcome precipitated a fundamental, albeit evolutionary, transformations in Boston's Congregational churches. Predictably, pew ownership entailed a degree of social homogeneity unimaginable a century earlier. The encroachments of Boston's rich elbowed the poor out of the meetinghouse and encouraged them to join the growing Baptist and Methodist denominations" (63). Pew levies became the source of church power which then translated into cultural authority. You paid one hundred dollars a month for the better pews, whereas the gallery seats might go for only twenty dollars a month. Whole churches were bought and paid for in this way, and there was no room for the poor to sit. So they went elsewhere. In the meanwhile, Christ was downplayed as no longer divine, but merely a wise man, and reason became exalted as the idea of absolute depravity (Lutheran as well as Calvinist) disappears and instead the reasonableness of humanity is emphasized. So now I think I see the link with Marx -- reason as capable of creating a good society. And with that we're back to the Pelagian heresy that Augustine had to beat down 1300 years before. Funny how these problems keep going around. (Note to Derek -- I hated Trungpa -- weird horrible alcoholic -- but loved Sanders' and Clark's writings at the time about this fascist fatso -- The Party, and The Great Naropa Poetry Wars -- very good solid sleuthing. I was only kidding when I wrote that bit last night -- I am against the idea that a religious person should also be in control of the politics of a community as is so in the Tibetan church. I like rather the separation of church and state.) I wasn't sure if Derek was linking Buddhism to Marxism, or whether Louis and Mike were trying to say that Emerson was a. a Marxist, b. an answer to Marxism c., owed something to Marxism, or just what Emerson had to do with the M. question. I confess that I scratched my head a bit. I think Marx would have hated the Boston Brahmins. I think he would have found Trungpa to have been a completely fatuous fraudulent fink. The Rimp, as he was known, was the most awful human being that I have ever glimpsed. I reject him completely. I hated how fat he was, I hated how stupid he was, I hated that he was always drunk, I hated how he beat his wife, I hated how he beat his horses, and thought his poetry was a poor excuse. How it was that he came to help Ginsberg in the way that the Unitarians came to help out the Boston Brahmins is worthy of study. Such symbiotic relationships are fascinating. It's something like what Marx tries to sketch out in the Grundrisse concerning the Clown as Producer of Wealth. Oh, the social role of the poet! It's enough to make a termite squirm! -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:59:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: CipherJournal is now online Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear List, CipherJournal, a new magazine focusing on creative translation and edited by Lucas Klein, is now online at http://www.CipherJournal.com. It contains much that might be of interest to many of you-- so much, in fact, that I think the Table of Contents, appended below, really speaks for itself. But of course I particularly want to call attention to my own small offering, written in collaboration with Kent Johnson, which considers Jack Spicer's _After Lorca_ in light of Walter Benjamin. Also, I'm told that the magazine is open to submissions. Hope you enjoy! Mark DuCharme **** CONTENTS: from At the Czestochowa Institute of Foreign Languages and Business by Herbert Batt Teruglezen, voor James Brockway Read Again, for James Brockway by Willem Groenewegen, with John Irons A 13th Century Dream by Murat Nemet-Nejat Blind Translations by various authors Diptych: The Road to Shu is Hard / The Road, Again by Lucas Klein Secrets dans l’îsle / Secrets on the Isle by Louis-Ferdinand Céline, translation by Mark Spitzer Appendice alla Religione : una luce Appendix to The Religion: a light by Pier Paolo Pasolini, translation by Karl Krause Huit Poèmes de L’avaleur de feu Eight Poems from The Fire Eater by Anise Koltz / translation by Pierre Joris Aus dem dritten Teil von Lichtzwang from Cycle III of Lightduress by Paul Celan / translation by Pierre Joris 5 Poems by Eugenio Montale translation by David Young 3 Poems after Tao Yuanming by David Young The Tiger Le Tigre by William Blake, French translation by Burton Raffel Four French Poems, with English Translations by Willis Barnstone ABC of Translating Poetry by Willis Barnstone ESSAYS & REVIEWS: Walter Benjamin & The Religion of Translation by Sarah Dudek Translation: Contemplating Against the Grain by Murat Nemet-Nejat “Addressed to No One”: Reading Jack Spicer’s After Lorca by Mark DuCharme & Kent Johnson Basho¯’s Back Roads to Far Towns by Clayton Eshleman Liu Zongyuan & Problems of Translation by Lucas Klein Translation: Processes & Attitudes by Burton Raffel <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Carelessness of heart is a virtue akin to the small lights of the stars. But it is sad to see virtues in those who have not the gift of the imagination to value them." —William Carlos Williams _________________________________________________________________ Create a Job Alert on MSN Careers and enter for a chance to win $1000! http://msn.careerbuilder.com/promo/kaday.htm?siteid=CBMSN_1K&sc_extcmp=JS_JASweep_MSNHotm2 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:03:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Reading in New York March 17 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Laura Elrick Barrett Watten Reading at St. Mark's Church Wednesday, March 17, 8 PM ***** 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). Wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:51:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: a Marxian model of the social in poetry MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Re: 1848, not fer naught (but, fer naught) Baldick subtitled his The Social Mission of English Criticism: 1848 - 1932.... On postponing connecting "rugged indie" (--Stush!) to Emersonian "self-reliance": reminds me in Whitman: a similar effort to distinguish what he called "personalism" (sort of a collectivism) from individualism (basically liberalism - same economic engine that Arnold, for all his conservativism [really: proleptic _conservationism_ of middle-class interests as culture], actively argued against ["Philistinism"]...it gets complismicated). One can sausage-link "the bard of personality" via the personalism of "Democratic Vistas" (1871) all the way to Laura Riding's grammatismic kitchen, and both of them thus barred from the Eliotic parlor (he attempted to make a unique rug out of the warp of indivi- diousism and the weft of personalism in order to reject both as even worthy doormats, under guise of a Top-Hat Church of a properly modernist anti-psychologism: problem: Personalism is not Exclusively Mere Psychologism!! Incredible?!) I write aboutism this inan essayista thatcan be foundalized inick a stackoid o' paperzettis from the 1997ist cornercicle of myola present roomotoil -- I'm so bye-bye; bye-bye! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:00:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: FW: New York Theater Workshop Fellowship - start 6/1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please do not send *me* any applications! Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net PLEASE SEND ALL MATERIALS TO: NEW YORK THEATRE WORKSHOP FELLOWSHIPS ATTN: RUBEN POLENDO 83 EAST 4TH STREET NEW YORK, NY 10003 E-mail: fellowshipinfo@nytw.org Phone: (212) 780-9037 x311 INTERVIEWS WILL BE CONDUCTED THE FIRST TWO WEEKS OF MAY IN NEW YORK CITY. RECIPIENTS WILL BE ANNOUNCED ON MAY 20, 2004. Job Start Date 6/1/2004 GRANTS: artists & administrators of color fellowships =========================================== Fellowships: Artists and Adminstrators of Color New York Theatre Workshop is offering fellowships for artists and administrators of color. A leading voice in contemporary theatre, NYTW embraces a founding vision and commitment to nurture both emerging and established theatre artists through work with a growing community of artists and audience members. The fellowships were created to empower and assist both emerging and developing artists-of-color NYTW provides a place wherein these artists are given tools to create, grow and fine-tune their given craft. Emerging artists are defined as artists with minimal or no professional experience; developing artists are defined as artists with some professional experience. These fellowships with NYTW are from June 2004 to November 2005 (for one-year fellowships) and June 2004 to November 2006 (for two-year fellowships). PLEASE NOTE: All applicants MUST live in New York City or metro area and be able to attend meetings twice a month. Must be able to attend Vassar 5-day retreat in June 2004 and also June 2005. Must NOT be enrolled in an academic institution for the duration of the fellowship. Fellowships being offered: A. ONE-YEAR ARTIST FELLOWSHIP: Open to Emerging Directors, Writers and Designers of color. This fellowship gives emerging artists (those with minimal professional experience) the opportunity to collaborate with other writers, directors and designers in creating a new one-act play. This new work will receive a workshop production in the fall of 2005. Fellows are to participate in fellowship sessions (two per month) exploring various subjects and ideas. Fellows are to receive mentorship from the artistic staff at New York Theatre Workshop. They are also invited to participate in Usual Suspect meetings and events held periodically during the season (The Usual Suspect Community is NYTW's Artistic Community, comprised of theater artist from all disciplines). Fellows are also invited to NYTW's retreat to Vassar College in June 2004 and June 2005. There will be 2-4 artists selected for this fellowship. There is a one-year commitment and a stipend of $3000 for this fellowship. Application Requirements for Directors: resume, a letter detailing his/her goals as a director, and 2 letters of recommendation. Application Requirements for Writers: resume, a letter detailing his/her goals as a writer, 2 letters of recommendation, and either a one-act play or a 20-page writing sample. Application Requirements for Designers: resume, a letter detailing his/her process and goals as a designer, 2 letters of recommendation, and work samples from professional or education productions. These work samples may be submitted online, in slides, or sketches (and will be returned upon request). B. TWO-YEAR LITERARY FELLOWSHIP: Open to Emerging and Developing Playwrights, Directors and Dramaturges of color. This more extensive fellowship is offered to one artist for a two-year term. There is an annual $25,000 salary plus health insurance benefits for this full-time position. This two-year fellowship gives emerging and developing playwrights, directors and dramaturges of color the opportunity to work intensely with New York Theatre Workshop?s Director of Project Development and Dramaturgy. Responsibilities include, but are not limited to, literary management of an Off-Broadway theater. Fellows are invited to Participate in weekly Artistic Staff meetings. Fellows are invited to participate in fellowship sessions (two per month) exploring various subjects and topics. Fellows are to receive mentorship from the artistic staff at New York Theatre Workshop. They are also invited to participate in Usual Suspect meetings and events held periodically during the season. Fellows are also invited to NYTW?s retreat to Vassar College in June 2004 and June 2005. Application Requirements for Directors, Writers and Dramaturges: resume, a letter detailing your interest in this position, a 1 page critical writing sample (an essay, a review, etc.) and 2 letters of recommendation. Applicant must live in New York City or metro area. Must be able to attend Vassar 5-day retreat in June 2004 and June 2005. Must not be enrolled in an academic institution or committed to fellowships or residencies within other institutions for the duration of the fellowship. C. TWO-YEAR ARTS ADMINISTRATOR FELLOWSHIP: Open to Emerging and Developing Arts Administrators of color; also open to Emerging and Developing Directors, Playwrights and Dramaturges of color seriously interested in Arts administration This year, NYTW would like to broaden the focus of its fellowship to create opportunities for administrators of color in the area of development and fund-raising. One fellow is selected for a two-year term. There is an annual $25,000 salary plus health insurance benefits for this full-time position. This two- year fellowship gives emerging and developing arts administrators of color the opportunity to work intensely with New York Theatre Workshop?s Managing Director and Associate Managing Director. Responsibilities include, but are not limited to, fund-raising and long range strategizing. Fellows are invited to participate in Fellowship sessions (two a month) exploring various subjects and topics. Fellows are to receive mentorship from the development staff at New York Theatre Workshop. They are also invited to participate in Usual Suspect meetings and events held periodically during the season (The Usual Suspect Community is NYTW?s Artistic Community). Application Requirements: resume, a letter detailing his/her goals, a 1-2 page sample of critical writing (an essay, a review, etc.) and 2 letters of recommendation. Applicant must live in NYC or metro area. Must be able to attend Vassar 5-day retreat in June 2004. Must not be enrolled in an academic institution or committed to fellowships or residencies within other institutions for the duration of the fellowship. ALL APPLICATIONS DUE: MARCH 26, 2004. SPECIFY CLEARLY WHICH FELLOWSHIP YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE CONSIDERED FOR. PLEASE SEND ALL MATERIALS TO: NEW YORK THEATRE WORKSHOP FELLOWSHIPS ATTN: RUBEN POLENDO 83 EAST 4TH STREET NEW YORK, NY 10003 E-mail: fellowshipinfo@nytw.org Phone: (212) 780-9037 x311 INTERVIEWS WILL BE CONDUCTED THE FIRST TWO WEEKS OF MAY IN NEW YORK CITY. RECIPIENTS WILL BE ANNOUNCED ON MAY 20, 2004. Job Start Date 6/1/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 00:22:42 +0100 Reply-To: magee@uni.lodz.pl Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Magee Subject: Autocritique MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit They feign the tag - tod - that write like they have got a line on - theirs ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:10:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: Autocritique Comments: cc: poetry@HYPOBOLOLEMAIOI.COM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Kevin, thanks for that, it's so true ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:48:04 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: ah (questions about poetics) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I wanted to ponder the M thread a bit more but meanwhile wondered about Bly's idea of a leaping poetry -- he was mostly thinking of images, but the ear can also stretch between the limbic and the neocortex. The neocortex likes, I believe, a certain regularity, and the limbic loves chaos -- or what Nietzsche described as Apollonian versus Dionysian (quietude versus avant?). This is one of the things that I love in Corso -- he sets up regularity and then does things that make his system suddenly explode with surprises. I DREAM IN DAYTIME I dream in daytime much too somber to greet the angels at my velvet-shredded door They enter salt they pour my milk the sprinkle white flies on the floor I cringe my sink I gloom my stove They leave me pink I dip my glove from Elegiac Feelings American -- I love all the delicate ways in which he rolls sounds about in that poem. How glove rhymes so weirdly off of stove, and cringe, sink and pink go together and yet play off of one another. I think this is one of the great virtues of Corso. When poets lack this dimension, they seem less rich. Fagin for instance emphasized in his poetry classes that we forget sound and focus almost entirely on image, or so I recall. He said to run a sound check at the end. Fagin's poetry is rich in imagery (or was back then) and was mentally interesting, but in terms of sound I don't remember rich strange or provocative sounds. This is a very important aspect of the poem to me. I do not know how to discuss this dimension of the poem very well. I did very little with meter and all of that in my book on Corso as I had to focus on the religious dimension or else the book would have lost focus. But there is a whole rich dimension having to do with numbers, numerology in Corso and also having to do with meter and counting, which again has to do with whether the world has meaning, and how. He has a number of poems that are written directly about or to mathematicians. Michael Skau does more with this meter business in his book on Corso, and takes Corso to task for being kind of a flake as a metrist. Corso plays with alliteration and rhyme in fascinating ways that never quite take over the sense (as say Swinburne seems to). I would at some point like to take up this dimension in Corso and study it more seriously, but there are so many other things I would like to do, too. And no time. I'm not sure it's the most important aspect of a poem, Chris, but I would say that without it you're missing a whole dimension. REgularity and surprise should come in many dimensions in a poem that you continually want to go back and explore. Thanks for bringing this topic up. I know the thread died out or something, but I've been tied up. I wish Annie Finch would talk about regularity versus surprise and comment on the Corso poem above. She might hate it. Maybe it's too simple or something. I did a few pages on the religious aspects of the poem above in my book, but barely touched upon meter. That's another whole book, and I'm not always sure of my ear. Corso had such a weird high voice. Does anybody remember it? He came off as a tough thug, but his voice was extremely high, like a batty old woman's screeching most of the time. I found him so comical. Nothing fit. The only other person who has a voice like Corso's is the great poetry critic Charles Altieri. Their voices are almost identical. They are both Italian American New Yorkers, and those are the only two of that group that I know, so maybe it is more common than I think. But if Corso was to read the poem above, it would sound very different than how I'd read it with my midwestern flat voice. -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:21:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Need Info on New Orleans Readings Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hi all, a poet friend of mine is going to New Orleans next week and I was hoping someone might have information on readings happening there from March 24-31, or if there are other things/events of note happening then. backchannel to editor@boogcity.com thanks, david ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:24:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Verse On Vellum Subject: Call for submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Verse On Vellum: A New Online Magazine featuring original poetry, short = fiction, reviews, and artwork is currently accepting submissions for our = first issue. We seek to create a site that fully integrates text and = images allowing them to play off of each other. Literary submissions: submissions@verseonvellum.com Artwork: art@verseonvellum.com Please visit our website for further information: www.verseonvellum.com Thanks, Maria Villafranca Verse On Vellum ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:51:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I always thought Altieri's voice reminded me of NYC poet Douglas Rothschild's ---------- >From: Kirby Olson >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: ah (questions about poetics) >Date: Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 3:48 PM > > The only other person who has a voice like Corso's is the great > poetry critic Charles Altieri. Their voices are almost identical. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:36:06 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: RaeA100900@AOL.COM Subject: question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have contact info for Michael Friedman? Rae A ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 00:17:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: i won't go to war because i am a coward MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII i won't go to war because i am a coward i won't go to all the wars i can remember i remember all the small countries around us the threats from iraq vietnam libya grenada nicaragua you name it we're off again on again in europe asia middle east us cowards will breed like crazy we'll take over the world there won't be any more wars _ i go won't to go war to because war i because am am coward a i coward won't all wars the i wars can can i remember won't small small countries countries around around us us threats threats from from iraq iraq vietnam vietnam libya libya grenada grenada nicaragua nicaragua you again name on it again we're in off europe again asia on middle in you europe name asia it middle we're east off cowards will us breed cowards like will crazy breed we'll take over world take there be there any won't more be i coward won't i go won't to go war to because war am i a am coward a all to the all wars the can i remember can small the countries small around countries us around threats the from threats iraq from vietnam iraq libya vietnam grenada libya nicaragua grenada you east name you it name we're it off we're again off on again in again europe in asia europe middle asia east middle cowards us will cowards breed will like breed crazy like we'll world take we'll over take world the there wars be won't any be more any _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:45:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: i won't go to war because i am a coward MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I fight for the cowards; I give them room to vent their anger I give them place=20 and space=20 to spew their cowardice yet live to call me names. I fight for the cowards; my death honors their right of dissent still they vent=20 a coward's anger at my loss as if it were their pain. I war=20 that cowards might live to mock my name to shame=20 my children innocent of blame and build fame for cowards who wrap their views in words=20 prettily printed with pictures=20 all askew of peace=20 but who don't really know=20 the cost of that same quality in human lives. How many now have died that cowards=20 still alive might spit on a gentle hero's grave? Post Script: Lincoln hated war, yet he mocked no warriors. Above all = else, he knew that even in the futility of war there existed the = potential for the value of progress for peace for all mankind. The = irony may be too much for some to comprehend, but the truth of the = matter is that citizens of today's world owe much of their freedom to = the deaths of many who fought before them, for them. Funny, too, is the = irony that the greatest gains have been those of the cowards...they paid = nothing and gained everything. Fancy that! =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alan Sondheim=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:17 PM Subject: i won't go to war because i am a coward i won't go to war because i am a coward i won't go to all the wars i can remember i remember all the small countries around us the threats from iraq vietnam libya grenada nicaragua you name it we're off again on again in europe asia middle east us cowards will breed like crazy we'll take over the world there won't be any more wars _ i go won't to go war to because war i because am am coward a i coward won't all wars the i wars can can i remember won't small small = countries countries around around us us threats threats from from iraq iraq = vietnam vietnam libya libya grenada grenada nicaragua nicaragua you again name = on it again we're in off europe again asia on middle in you europe name = asia it middle we're east off cowards will us breed cowards like will crazy breed we'll take over world take there be there any won't more be i coward won't i go won't to go war to because war am i a am coward a = all to the all wars the can i remember can small the countries small = around countries us around threats the from threats iraq from vietnam iraq = libya vietnam grenada libya nicaragua grenada you east name you it name = we're it off we're again off on again in again europe in asia europe middle = asia east middle cowards us will cowards breed will like breed crazy like = we'll world take we'll over take world the there wars be won't any be more = any _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 00:05:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: i won't go to war because i am a coward MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Excellent poem, Alan. -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:17 PM Subject: i won't go to war because i am a coward > i won't go to war because i am a coward > i won't go to all the wars i can remember > i remember all the small countries around us > the threats from iraq vietnam libya grenada nicaragua > you name it we're off again on again in europe asia middle east > us cowards will breed like crazy > we'll take over the world > there won't be any more wars ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:16:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Shankar, Ravi (English)" Subject: Lit Journal "The Helix" seeks work Comments: cc: joeyclifford@hotmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Central's student-run literary journal, The Helix, is looking into = national distribution and their recent call for new work (poetry, prose, = photography) is open to anyone who is interested. Send work to: = accompanied by brief bio. Deadline for the = Summer 2004 issue is April 1st, 2004.=20 -RS =20 *************** Ravi Shankar=20 Poet-in-Residence Assistant Professor CCSU - English Dept. 860-832-2766 shankarr@ccsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:59:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Annie Finch Subject: theresa cha estate In-Reply-To: <200403170514.i2H5EYdA312908@mcsaix02.mcs.muohio.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Thanks to many for the good leads (and anecdotes) for Cha. Thinking of Corman too, I guess this sense of a footprint after someone has gone is as good an indication as any of the existence of "community." Annie -- ___________________________________ Annie Finch http://www.users.muohio.edu/finchar Associate Professor English Department Miami University Oxford, Ohio 45056 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:49:32 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Natural Language Generation research enquiry... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Francisco Reply-To: Francisco To: cogling@ucsd.edu Subject: Natural Language Generation research enquiry... Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:29:15 -0800 ( PST) Dear all, A student of ours has asked for the kind participation of the coglingers. A few minutes you could spare in filling the enquiry will be of great help for the future of his research. Generally speaking, it is about finding systematic ways of restating the same sentence. Thanks very much Francisco, AILab of Coimbra University -------- Hi, I am doing some research on Natural Language, and that includes a survey to know what people think about different forms of expressing one idea. I've prepared an online enquiry, and I'd appreciate if you could respond to it. It consists of 20 sentences expressed in 4 different ways, and should take you 15-25 minutes to finish. To respond, please visit: http://galaxia-alfa.com/enquiry If you know someone who would like to help, please pass the word. This enquiry is very important for my research, and for the results to be valid it's necessary to have a good number of responses. Thank you very much for your cooperation. Mateus Mendes _________________________________________________________________ Free up your inbox with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage. Multiple plans available. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:10:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: "None of us is free until we are all free!" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please forward!! "None of us is free until we are all free!" http://transdada.blogspot.com/ FLASH NOTICES & Actions : -Marriage Equality for All Contingent in Mar. 20 March=A0=A0 Given the recent California Supreme Court decision halting same-sex=20 marriages in San Francisco, and Bush's proposed bigoted constitutional=20= amendment banning same-sex marriages, there will be a Marriage Equality=20= for All contingent in the Saturday March 20 protest. All LGBT people=20 and supporters are invited to join in this out and proud contingent=20 demanding equal civil rights.=A0=A0=A0 Meet at 11 am at Dolores and 19th Streets. Look for the "Marriage=20 Equality for All" banner. Bring your own signs, or grab one of ours,=20 and proclaim: "None of us is free until we are all free!"=A0=A0 http://transdada.blogspot.com/ -Marriage Rally in Cleveland March 26 Same-sex marriage activists in Cleveland are organizing a marriage=20 action and rally. The peaceful event will include same-sex couples=20 applying for marriage licenses and a support rally. The event is=20 scheduled to take place on Friday, March 26, at 3 p.m at the Cuyahoga=20 County Courthouse. The Lesbian/Gay Community Service Center of Greater=20= Cleveland is looking for same-sex couples who are willing to apply for=20= a marriage license. Contact Maura Haas, development coordinator for the=20= center at (216 ) 651-5428, or go to www.lgcsc.org. http://transdada.blogspot.com/ -March 22 on courthouse steps across the country. Local women planning national event for gays Same-sex couples to meet at courthouses to put face on efforts to win=20 right to marry. a national event called Going to the Courthouse. "This is a way to show=20= the faces of the people affected," Michele O'Mara said of the=20 grass-roots campaign. Their plan is for gay couples, their families and=20= friends to gather March 22 on courthouse steps across the country. http://transdada.blogspot.com/ -Gay Churches Call For Civil Disobedience (New York City) The Moderator of the Metropolitan Community Churches=20 Tuesday called for civil disobedience by clergy across New York State=20 to protest state marriage law that does not recognize same-sex unions. http://transdada.blogspot.com/ -Day of Silence to be held April 21 The Gay, Lesbian, and Straight Education Network will organize the=20 ninth annual Day of Silence on April 21. This year's event is expected=20= to break last year's record-setting participation of more than 200,000=20= students and teachers in nearly 2,000 K-12 schools from across the=20 nation. The student-led event is dedicated to ending discrimination=20 against lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgendered students in schools.=20= During the day, participating students, teachers, and faculty take a=20 vow of silence to protest discrimination leveled at LGBT people in=20 their schools. Students can now register for the Day of Silence at the=20= recently upgraded and relaunched www.dayofsilence.org. http://transdada.blogspot.com/ ******************************************** **RECENT HATE CRIMES IS ACT OF DISCRIMINATION** @ http://transdada.blogspot.com/ -Gay Artwork Stolen =46rom Exhibition -City police investigate vandalism at gay bar as hate crime -S.F. newpaper reassigns married lesbian - transgendered woman who was found shot to death outside a Buckhead=20 apartment building two weeks ago -Recruitment T-shirts produced by a campus fraternity ________________________________ TODAY @ http://transdada.blogspot.com/ Tuesday, March 16, 2004 -New York Courts Dealing With New Gay Marriage Cases -City hears public over opposing ban on gay marriages -Local measure opposes gay marriage amendment -Sebastopol supports gay marriage -Key West endorses gay marriage -Nashville - A ban on civil unions raced out of a Senate committee=20 yesterday -Transsexual's case against warden can move forward -Reconstructionist rabbis at Deerfield meeting back gay marriage -Unions Oppose 'Anti-Gay' Employment Laws -Delaware gay rights bill stalled in Senate and more http://transdada.blogspot.com/ Tuesday, March 17, 2004 -Poll finds support for civil unions, -Gay-rights activists rally at Capitol -E. Mass. Episcopalians endorse gay marriage -Bans on Interracial Unions Offer Perspective on Gay Ones -History of U.S. Marriage: Past Debates -Bloomberg draws fire for promising to march in St. Patrick's Day parade -Another county in Oregon will start issuing marriage licenses to=20 same-sex couple -BLACK COMMUNITY ACTIVISTS SPEAK OUT FOR MARRIAGE EQUALITY -Same-Sex Marriage Debate Fills State House Rotunda -Ann Arbor city council votes to oppose ban on same-sex marriage -Protest Condemns Anti-Gay Amendment In Kentucky -Same-sex marriage opponents advance 'Defense of Marriage' law -Pennsylvania GOP Abandons Anti-Gay Measures -Gay in Smallville, USA -Hiding hatred behind tradition -Unitarians: Gay Marriage Nothing New for Us -Targeting gays' feelings of isolation; Local woman leads group's=20 effort to create a sense of community -Church says gay marriage charges overstep bounds -Marriage reveals evolving society -Bucks official refuses to take application for gay marriage -House removes adoption bill's anti-gay riders -Oakland to consider decree urging same-sex marriages -Legally wed in Colorado -1,138 reasons for same-sex marriage and more @ http://transdada.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:45:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: FW: Digging up what you just buried: US WMD In-Reply-To: <197.26f8324c.2d89ca88@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="B_3162361517_7812815" > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3162361517_7812815 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit If the following story is true, be surprised not. Same folks fixed the election in Florida, as I recall, so why not fix the results in Iraq! Etc. 16 March: U.S. Unloading WMD in Iraq TEHRAN (Mehr News Agency) Over the past few days, in the wake of the bombings in Karbala and the ideological disputes that delayed the signing of Iraq's interim constitution, there have been reports that U.S. forces have unloaded a large cargo of parts for constructing long-range missiles and weapons of mass destruction (WMD) in the southern ports of Iraq. A reliable source from the Iraqi Governing Council, speaking on condition of anonymity, told the Mehr News Agency that U.S. forces, with the help of British forces stationed in southern Iraq, had made extensive efforts to conceal their actions. He added that the cargo was unloaded during the night as attention was still focused on the aftermath of the deadly bombings in Karbala and the signing of Iraq's interim constitution. The source said that in order to avoid suspicion, ordinary cargo ships were used to download the cargo, which consisted of weapons produced in the 1980s and 1990s.He mentioned the fact that the United States had facilitated Iraq's WMD program during the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq and said that some of the weapons being downloaded are similar to those weapons, although international inspectors had announced Saddam Hussein's Baath regime had destroyed all its WMD. The source went on to say that the rest of the weapons were probably transferred in vans to an unknown location somewhere in the vicinity of Basra overnight. Most of these weapons are of Eastern European origin and some parts are from the former Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc. The U.S. obtained them through confiscations during sales of banned arms over the past two decades, he said. This action comes as certain U.S. and Western officials have been pointing out the fact that no weapons of mass destruction have been discovered in Iraq and the issue of Saddam's trial begins to take center stage. In addition, formerchief UN weapons inspector Hans Blix has emphasized that the U.S. And British intelligence agencies issued false reports on Iraq leading to the U.S. attack. Meanwhile, the suspicious death of weapons inspector David Kelly is also an unresolved issue in Britain.------Occupation Forces Official Claims to Have No Information About Transfer of WMD to Iraq -------A security official for the coalition forces in Iraq said that he has not received any information about the unloading of weapons of mass destruction in ports in southern Iraq. ShaneWolf told the Mehr News Agency that the occupation forces have received no reports on such events, but said he hoped that the coalition forces would find the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction one day. Coalition forces and inspectors have so far been unable to find any Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. The U.S. invaded Iraq under the pretext that Iraq possessed a stockpile of weapons of mass destruction. Now they are planting the evidence. --B_3162361517_7812815 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-yf01.mx.aol.com (rly-yf01.mail.aol.com [172.18.205.65]) by air-yf04.mail.aol.com (v98.10) with ESMTP id MAILINYF42-84140584f8a258; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:16:16 -0500 Received: from siaab1ab.compuserve.com (siaab1ab.compuserve.com [149.174.40.2]) by rly-yf01.mx.aol.com (v98.5) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYF11-84140584f8a258; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:15:54 -0500 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaab1ab.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.12) id i2HDF37Z029744; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:15:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:14:18 -0500 From: "walz Design Inc." Subject: Digging up what you just buried: US WMD Sender: "walz Design Inc." To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com Message-ID: <200403170814_MC3-1-76EB-7788@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-AOL-IP: 149.174.40.2 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) From my most reliable source of news, 16 March: U.S. Unloading WMD in Iraq=20 TEHRAN (Mehr News Agency) =20 Over the past few days, in the wake of the bombings in Karbala and the ideological=20 disputes that delayed the signing of Iraq's interim constitution, there have been=20 reports that U.S. forces have unloaded a large cargo of parts for constructing=20 long-range missiles and weapons of mass destruction (WMD) in the southern=20 ports of Iraq. A reliable source from the Iraqi Governing Council, speaking on=20 condition of anonymity, told the Mehr News Agency that U.S. forces, with the help=20 of British forces stationed in southern Iraq, had made extensive efforts to conceal their actions. He added that the cargo was unloaded during the night as attention=20 was still focused on the aftermath of the deadly bombings in Karbala and the signing=20 of Iraq's interim constitution.=20 The source said that in order to avoid suspicion, ordinary cargo ships=20 were used to download the cargo, which consisted of weapons produced in the 1980s and 1990s.He mentioned the fact that the United States had facilitated=20 Iraq's WMD program during the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq and said that some of the weapons being downloaded are similar to those weapons, although international=20 inspectors had announced Saddam Hussein's Baath regime had destroyed all its=20 WMD. The source went on to say that the rest of the weapons were probably=20 transferred in vans to an unknown location somewhere in the vicinity of Basra overnight. Most of these weapons are of Eastern European origin and some parts are from=20 the former Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc. The U.S. obtained them through=20 confiscations during sales of banned arms over the past two decades, he=20 said. This action comes as certain U.S. and Western officials have been pointing out=20 the fact that no weapons of mass destruction have been discovered in Iraq and=20 the issue of Saddam's trial begins to take center stage.In addition, former chief UN weapons inspector Hans Blix has emphasized that the U.S. and British=20 intelligence agencies issued false reports on Iraq leading to the U.S.=20 attack. =20 Meanwhile, the suspicious death of weapons inspector David Kelly is also an unresolved issue in Britain.------Occupation Forces Official Claims to Have No=20 Information About Transfer of WMD to Iraq -------A security official for the=20 coalition forces in Iraq said that he has not received any information about the=20 unloading of weapons of mass destruction in ports in southern Iraq. Shane Wolf=20 told the Mehr News Agency that the occupation forces have received no reports=20 on such events, but said he hoped that the coalition forces would find the=20 Iraqi weapons of mass destruction one day. Coalition forces and inspectors have so=20 far been unable to find any Iraqi weapons of mass destruction.=20 The U.S. invaded Iraq under the pretext that Iraq possessed a stockpile of weapons of mass=20 destruction. Now they are planting the evidence. --B_3162361517_7812815-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:46:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sirkka-Liisa Phillips Subject: to Kirby: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'll take Trungpa over kill-joy Luther anytime. --- Naropa University - an adventure in mind, body, and spirit. http://www.naropa.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:57:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cynthia sailers Subject: Treadwell/Morrison Reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii New Brutalism Reading Series Presents: Elizabeth Treadwell & Yedda Morrison Sunday, March 21st @ 21 Grand 449B 23rd St. Oakland, Ca 94612 7-9pm $4 Come help celebrate the realease of Elizabeth Treadwell’s two new books: 2004: Chantry, from Chax Press, and LILYFOIL + 3, from O Books. Her new work floats gracefully between neologism (“abbychoosy”) and typographical flexibility—a row of words at the bottom of a page, a whole page with a single line. Treadwell’s previous books include a novel, several chapbooks, and a collection of prose poems, Populace (Avec, 1999). Her essay, "Secret Mint: an exposition," will appear in Writing Under the Influence: America¹s New Women Poets & The Generation That Inspires Them(Wesleyan, due 2005). Treadwell was born in Oakland, California, in 1967 and lives there now with her husband and baby daughter. Since 2000, she has served as director of Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCA, San Francisco. Yedda Morrison’s new work “Crop” explores the functions of the fractured female text, alliterating like “to sails by her vinyl / pinned itinerant / Bride in literate” but also literaly uses the poems as a project to explores the conditions of being a laborer at a pear packing farm, and researching on “the degree of negligence” on the part of an aerospace company. Morrison’s books include, The Marriage of the Well Built Head (Double Lucy Press, 1998), Shed (A + Bend Press, 2000), and Crop (Kelsey Street Press, 2003). She teaches creative writing in San Francisco’s Tenderloin district and works at a flower shop. Yedda is currently working on a multimedia project titled Girl Scout Nation. She lives in Oakland, CA. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:50:24 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: For: Sirkka-Liisa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sirkka-Liisa -- my mother in law's name is Sirkka-Liisa. Ok, can you name a joy that Luther killed, or a joy that Trungpa provided? Sometimes you have to separate joy from laughter. I do remember that Luther said we should not laugh and sing at the same time. Perhaps you are referring to that. "Music doesn't sound right when there is laughter in connection with it, for music is intended to cheer the spirit. The mouth gets no pleasure from it. If one sings diligently, the soul, which is located in the body, plays and derives special pleasure from it." This Martin Luther said when we laughed during the singing at table. Table Talks p. 420 Other than this, I can't think of any joys that Martin killed. Even in this he isn't trying to kill joy, but rather to preserve a higher joy from a milder pleasure. Perhaps you have some other saying of brother Martin's to which you are referring? Best, Kirby Sirkka-Liisa Phillips wrote: > I'll take Trungpa over kill-joy Luther anytime. > > --- > Naropa University - an adventure in mind, body, and spirit. > http://www.naropa.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:38:42 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: The fat dumb buddhist In-Reply-To: <40574B93.B49051BD@delhi.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirby wrote: ..| I hated Trungpa -- weird horrible alcoholic ..| -- but loved Sanders' and Clark's writings _______________________ October 31, 1976 The Merwin incident During Trungpa, Rinpoche's 1976 seminary near Snowmass, Colorado, poet W.S. Merwin and companion Dana Naone are noted absent from a naked Halloween party. When located they refuse to join in, at which time Trungpa directs several people to break into their barricaded room and drag the reluctant pair to the gathering. An argument follows and they are forcibly stripped of their clothing. The incident - which Trungpa characterizes as merely another teaching - becomes public three years later when Allen's interview with Tom Clark is published in the Boulder Monthly. The fiasco haunts Naropa for several years, setting off the "poetry wars," severing numerous friendships and drawing public criticism. Source: http://allenginsberg.org/ _______________________ Expose: The fat dumb buddhist. I am aware that certain incidents rubbed certain people the wrong way according to their moral sensibilities and there was a lot of 'recountings,' fictional or otherwise, after-the-fact, and maybe even a lot of apologizing and hand-holding went on regarding certain incidents within social networks which included many influential poets -- nevertheless -- a moment of tension and/or drama was being publicized, produced, advertised, and distributed - all speaking about the fat dumb buddhist. if i could go back in time to the late cocaine-70s and had good drugs and shelter and lived a Sagittarian-like existence with many of the day's best poets... i dunno... it seems to me all this material gathered around relating to the publication of "Speaking about the fat dumb buddhist..." is a *backlash* activity. My understanding of this stuff is that it was rejected by Rolling Stone Magazine for being a poor excuse when it came down to real 'investigation' (or maybe Rolling Stone just preferred their own weird horrible drunk - H.S.T.) and much of the many accounts of one single incident is admittedly 'highly fictionalized.' So what does that mean? It means whomever never got to cash-in on rubbing it in Trungpa's face and projecting their 'self' toward new horizons in opposition to him personally. Whatever. This appears to be back-sliding activity. I can't imagine anything easier in this world than beating up on a buddhist. I should think it would be possible to go into business doing this (a life's work?). So until someone somewhere wants to stand up and share what they *know* and not what they *heard* I appreciate the difference between 'belief' and 'knowledge'. I don't know any buddhist who goes around defending and protecting their self-image. Whatever credentials you believe Trungpa was missing I think you missed the point. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:01:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Re: The fat dumb buddhist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I missed this but who was saying that it was wrong to beat up a buddhist? It would seem to me wrong to beat up anybody unless they had it coming. and if they did have it coming how could we be sure? It's really a matter of interpretation, and a very bad idea to let ego get involved. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek R" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:38 PM Subject: Re: The fat dumb buddhist > Kirby wrote: > > ..| I hated Trungpa -- weird horrible alcoholic > ..| -- but loved Sanders' and Clark's writings > > > _______________________ > October 31, 1976 > The Merwin incident > During Trungpa, Rinpoche's 1976 seminary near Snowmass, Colorado, poet > W.S. Merwin and companion Dana Naone are noted absent from a naked > Halloween party. When located they refuse to join in, at which time > Trungpa directs several people to break into their barricaded room and > drag the reluctant pair to the gathering. An argument follows and they > are forcibly stripped of their clothing. > > The incident - which Trungpa characterizes as merely another teaching - > becomes public three years later when Allen's interview with Tom Clark > is published in the Boulder Monthly. The fiasco haunts Naropa for > several years, setting off the "poetry wars," severing numerous > friendships and drawing public criticism. > > Source: http://allenginsberg.org/ > _______________________ > > > Expose: The fat dumb buddhist. > > > I am aware that certain incidents rubbed certain people the wrong way > according to their moral sensibilities and there was a lot of > 'recountings,' fictional or otherwise, after-the-fact, and maybe even a > lot of apologizing and hand-holding went on regarding certain incidents > within social networks which included many influential poets -- > nevertheless -- a moment of tension and/or drama was being publicized, > produced, advertised, and distributed - all speaking about the fat dumb > buddhist. > > > if i could go back in time to the late cocaine-70s and had good drugs > and shelter and lived a Sagittarian-like existence with many of the > day's best poets... i dunno... it seems to me all this material > gathered around relating to the publication of "Speaking about the fat > dumb buddhist..." is a *backlash* activity. My understanding of this > stuff is that it was rejected by Rolling Stone Magazine for being a poor > excuse when it came down to real 'investigation' (or maybe Rolling Stone > just preferred their own weird horrible drunk - H.S.T.) and much of the > many accounts of one single incident is admittedly 'highly > fictionalized.' > > So what does that mean? It means whomever never got to cash-in on > rubbing it in Trungpa's face and projecting their 'self' toward new > horizons in opposition to him personally. Whatever. This appears to be > back-sliding activity. > > I can't imagine anything easier in this world than beating up on a > buddhist. I should think it would be possible to go into business doing > this (a life's work?). So until someone somewhere wants to stand up and > share what they *know* and not what they *heard* I appreciate the > difference between 'belief' and 'knowledge'. I don't know any buddhist > who goes around defending and protecting their self-image. Whatever > credentials you believe Trungpa was missing I think you missed the > point. > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:52:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: LA -- early warning -- first night of a new series MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sunday, March 28th 6-9:30PM=20 @ THE SMELL: 247 SOUTH Main St., LA 90012 ENTER IN BACK Come enjoy the first night of a literary/arts event running the last Sunday of every month. Mark your calendars. THIS MONTH=92S FEATURES: Plays =95 A short play by Sharon Yablon w/Hank Bunker and Dana Wieluns =95 A short play (Caf=E9, Morocco) by Bernard Goldberg Unclassifiable Weirdness from =95 The comedy / performance group=20 The Two-Headed Dog Music =95 The Violet Rays CD release! Performing songs from *be in fashion,* available at the show. =95 Ensemble of 31 Birds the smell is an all ages club in downtown LA across from the wreck of St. Vibiana; enter the former Japanese movie theatre off the back alley ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:21:04 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gmguddi Subject: Now on Conchology Blog Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed In this issue of Conchology blog, lots of social and narcissistic stuff: This issue of Conchology blog is a three part issue: Part ONe: Photographs of hooligans and leftists Part Two: Rhode Island Notebook 3.7.03-3.16.03 Part Third: SOMEONE CALL AN AMBULANCE: A DRAMATIC INTERVIEW (reposted by request) -- Photograph of Dale Smith with Large Woman Photographs of Kent Johnson Yelling Photograph of Devin Johnston Pointing at a Monster Photograph of David Hess's Beer on my Shoe Photograph of Jonathan Mayhew Egressing a Two Story Slide in St. Louis Photograph of Me Laughing at some Above Mentioned Drunkards Photograph of Aaron Belz Losing a Friend Photograph of Me at the KGB Bar Photograph of Me outside the KGB Bar Photographs of the Audience in the KGB Bar Taken from the Podium Photographs of the Audience at the New School University Taken from the Podium, man on right is David Lehman Report of My Recent Reading at Myopic Books in Chicago Report and Commentary Upon Snide Review of My Book Taken from Amazon.com and... RHODE ISLAND NOTEBOOK, 3.7.03-3.16.03 and... SOMEONE CALL AN AMBULANCE: A DRAMATIC INTERVIEW http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:46:50 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Betsy Andrews Subject: Soliciting recent queer poetry and experimental prose for review in Gay City News Comments: To: levitskrachel@yahoo.com, ericakaufman@hotmail.com, RT5LE9@aol.com, minka@camilleroy.com, NathanielSiegel@aol.com, vissy2@aol.com, mechanicalvenus@hotmail.com, marcelladurand@sprynet.com, kayvallet@earthlink.net, frances@angel.net, dangerousfamilies@hotmail.com, shaferhall@hotmail.com Comments: cc: skankypossum@grandecom.net, gscott@dsuper.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hey, all. I'm going to be writing a monthly column for Gay City News in NYC reviewing new queer poetry and experimental prose. I really welcome all suggestions for recent books you think I should review, and I welcome submissions for review. I anticipate starting the column in late April. Email suggestions to me at betsyandrews@yahoo.com, or send materials to: Betsy Andrews, Zagat Survey, 4 Columbus Circle, 3rd floor, NYC 10019. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:58:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Need Bruce Andrews' email Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hi all, i need bruce andrews' email. i used andrewsbruce@netscape.net and it kicked back. please backchannel if you can help. thanks, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcity.blog-city.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:02:28 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Naropa... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From my own limited exp. on the scene.. I thot rimpoche was creepy.. tho the regent was far creepier... and Allen G was the creepiest.. of the trinity... i remember a night about 30 yrs ago... after a reading.. at the West End... i was with Bob literally at the feets of the masters... Allen Sz: I'm starting a Po Program at Naropa.. So I can have Students to sleep with.. Out of hell cradle endlessly burning... don't be so literal..drn... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:11:07 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Donna Kuhn's "Up Bluen" Chaps Up for Review Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Dear All: Donna Kuhn's Chap "Up Bluen" will be completed next weekend and I have ten copies that I'd like to send out to reviewers. For everyone else, the first edition is done in a run of 100. They're $6. Also, I've made 25 grey perfectbound which are signed and numbered by Donna. Get on it. And thanks to those folks who have supported us in the past. Keep checking out www.furniturepress.net Anyone up for it? Thanks, Christophe Casamassima -- _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:19:59 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: The fat dumb buddhist? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Trungpa wasn't dumb. He attended the highest level British universities, knew a number of languages, and so on. This incident was described in an edited compilation by Ed Sanders called The Party. I don't know if it's still around or in print, but I was at Naropa in 77 and 79. I think it clarified a lot of issues regarding democracy and Buddhism (no connection, as Tom Clark pointed out quite often). You either submit to the guru, or you're out. Tom Clark's book The Great Naropa Poetry Wars is still around. The incident is somewhat arcane, but in terms of poetry circles almost everybody weighed in -- it was a major incident. For me, it clarified the need to return to Democratic sources, and to journalism, and so on. I think it clarified this need for poets such as Clark, Dorn, Sanders, and others, too. Even Codrescu. The Buddhist deal is very nice in some ways (I liked sitting, and so on, in the very clear air of summer Boulder). Trungpa wasn't a retard that you could kick around. He was a millionaire who owned a huge house, lots of cars, had bodyguards with machine guns, and went around in Rolls Royces. I was there and saw a lot of this. The PArty, edited by Sanders, is probably around still. It's a great book on this incident. It documents actual conversations with actual Buddhists who saw what took place -- this was at a remote retreat. It's an extremely ugly encounter that gives you pause when considering Trungpa. I was hoping to discuss Emerson more, too. I couldn't understand the last two posts by Louis and Mike -- they seemed to deliberately obfuscate the issue. Too bad. In the Peter Field book he argues that the Boston Brahmin notion of culture ended up being something for the extreme upper classes that deliberately left the poor on the cutting room floor. "In short, the Brahmin clergy of Boston had transformed God's covenant with the Puritan nation into a class compact with a privileged elite" (110). My real strengths are in French literature and philosophy, but I am trying to understand more about the American situation -- so complicated, so various. Lutherans have had very little say in American literature, so I am constantly having to leave and try to understand other groups, and their backgrounds. Even Gary Snyder and Robert Bly were disgusted by Trungpa -- in spite of their own strong Buddhist connection. I don't know if Joanne Kyger remarked on Trungpa. She is usually, it seems, more diplomatic. What was her take? Does anybody know? I shudder to think of some of the atrocious things that have happened at Naropa. In the mid-80s there was the Osel Tenzin incident -- I think that was his name. He ordered his disciples to sleep with him although he didn't tell them he had AIDS. This resulted in HIV infections for several people. This was another mess. The strong hierarchy of Buddhism -- in many ways it is as bad as incidents within the Catholic church that we've been watching in the headlines over the last five years. Some 7% of the Boston diocese is under indictment. There is even a Lutheran pastor -- I think in Lubbock, Texas -- who has been sued for 5 million dollars for fucking his flock. That's our only case so far, but that one case is going to cost plenty. Already the insurance carrier has cancelled the insurance for that church. Religion is very scary -- it has so much cultural power -- and where it goes wrong -- there's hell to pay. Since we can't seem to get away from religion in one guise or another -- it pays to think it through as seriously as possible. -- Kirby Derek -- your account below is a very sanitized version of what actually took place. There were 600 stitches involved, for instance. The forcible stripping would rub most people the wrong way, it would seem to me -- as well as the vicious statements that Trungpa then directed at Merwin and his humiliated girlfriend. Derek R wrote: > Kirby wrote: > > ..| I hated Trungpa -- weird horrible alcoholic > ..| -- but loved Sanders' and Clark's writings > > _______________________ > October 31, 1976 > The Merwin incident > During Trungpa, Rinpoche's 1976 seminary near Snowmass, Colorado, poet > W.S. Merwin and companion Dana Naone are noted absent from a naked > Halloween party. When located they refuse to join in, at which time > Trungpa directs several people to break into their barricaded room and > drag the reluctant pair to the gathering. An argument follows and they > are forcibly stripped of their clothing. > > The incident - which Trungpa characterizes as merely another teaching - > becomes public three years later when Allen's interview with Tom Clark > is published in the Boulder Monthly. The fiasco haunts Naropa for > several years, setting off the "poetry wars," severing numerous > friendships and drawing public criticism. > > Source: http://allenginsberg.org/ > _______________________ > > Expose: The fat dumb buddhist. > > I am aware that certain incidents rubbed certain people the wrong way > according to their moral sensibilities and there was a lot of > 'recountings,' fictional or otherwise, after-the-fact, and maybe even a > lot of apologizing and hand-holding went on regarding certain incidents > within social networks which included many influential poets -- > nevertheless -- a moment of tension and/or drama was being publicized, > produced, advertised, and distributed - all speaking about the fat dumb > buddhist. > > if i could go back in time to the late cocaine-70s and had good drugs > and shelter and lived a Sagittarian-like existence with many of the > day's best poets... i dunno... it seems to me all this material > gathered around relating to the publication of "Speaking about the fat > dumb buddhist..." is a *backlash* activity. My understanding of this > stuff is that it was rejected by Rolling Stone Magazine for being a poor > excuse when it came down to real 'investigation' (or maybe Rolling Stone > just preferred their own weird horrible drunk - H.S.T.) and much of the > many accounts of one single incident is admittedly 'highly > fictionalized.' > > So what does that mean? It means whomever never got to cash-in on > rubbing it in Trungpa's face and projecting their 'self' toward new > horizons in opposition to him personally. Whatever. This appears to be > back-sliding activity. > > I can't imagine anything easier in this world than beating up on a > buddhist. I should think it would be possible to go into business doing > this (a life's work?). So until someone somewhere wants to stand up and > share what they *know* and not what they *heard* I appreciate the > difference between 'belief' and 'knowledge'. I don't know any buddhist > who goes around defending and protecting their self-image. Whatever > credentials you believe Trungpa was missing I think you missed the > point. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:22:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: Notice: Mudlark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII New and On View: Mudlark Flash No. 24 (2004) Frances Ruhlen McConnel Prayer for My Cousin in a Coma After a Car Crash Frances Ruhlen McConnel is a poet and writer of short stories and creative nonfiction. She teaches in the Creative Writing Department at the University of California, Riverside. She lives in Claremont, California, and her old stomping grounds include Oak Ridge, Tennessee, Anchorage, Alaska, and Seattle, Washington, where she attended the University of Washington. She has published one book of poetry, Gathering Light, from Pygmalion Press and edited a collection of West Coast Women's Poetry, One Step Closer, also from Pygmalion Press. Recently she won the Oneiros Press Broadside Contest and a broadside of her winning poem will appear in the summer. A chapbook of her haiku is due out from Bucket of Type Printery this spring. She is presently working on an eccentric family memoir. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter _________________ MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:23:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Queens rocks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/17/nyregion/17POET.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:46:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: The fat dumb buddhist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's an excellent book on the general subject: "The Guru Papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power," by Joel Kramer and Diana Alstad. The title is a bit unfortunate, probably chosen to appeal to a popular audience. The authors are first rate scholars. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Rothenberg" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:01 PM Subject: Re: The fat dumb buddhist > I missed this but who was saying that it was wrong to beat up a buddhist? It > would seem to me wrong to beat up anybody unless they had it coming. and if > they did have it coming how could we be sure? It's really a matter of > interpretation, and a very bad idea to let ego get involved. Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Derek R" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:38 PM > Subject: Re: The fat dumb buddhist > > > > Kirby wrote: > > > > ..| I hated Trungpa -- weird horrible alcoholic > > ..| -- but loved Sanders' and Clark's writings > > > > > > _______________________ > > October 31, 1976 > > The Merwin incident > > During Trungpa, Rinpoche's 1976 seminary near Snowmass, Colorado, poet > > W.S. Merwin and companion Dana Naone are noted absent from a naked > > Halloween party. When located they refuse to join in, at which time > > Trungpa directs several people to break into their barricaded room and > > drag the reluctant pair to the gathering. An argument follows and they > > are forcibly stripped of their clothing. > > > > The incident - which Trungpa characterizes as merely another teaching - > > becomes public three years later when Allen's interview with Tom Clark > > is published in the Boulder Monthly. The fiasco haunts Naropa for > > several years, setting off the "poetry wars," severing numerous > > friendships and drawing public criticism. > > > > Source: http://allenginsberg.org/ > > _______________________ > > > > > > Expose: The fat dumb buddhist. > > > > > > I am aware that certain incidents rubbed certain people the wrong way > > according to their moral sensibilities and there was a lot of > > 'recountings,' fictional or otherwise, after-the-fact, and maybe even a > > lot of apologizing and hand-holding went on regarding certain incidents > > within social networks which included many influential poets -- > > nevertheless -- a moment of tension and/or drama was being publicized, > > produced, advertised, and distributed - all speaking about the fat dumb > > buddhist. > > > > > > if i could go back in time to the late cocaine-70s and had good drugs > > and shelter and lived a Sagittarian-like existence with many of the > > day's best poets... i dunno... it seems to me all this material > > gathered around relating to the publication of "Speaking about the fat > > dumb buddhist..." is a *backlash* activity. My understanding of this > > stuff is that it was rejected by Rolling Stone Magazine for being a poor > > excuse when it came down to real 'investigation' (or maybe Rolling Stone > > just preferred their own weird horrible drunk - H.S.T.) and much of the > > many accounts of one single incident is admittedly 'highly > > fictionalized.' > > > > So what does that mean? It means whomever never got to cash-in on > > rubbing it in Trungpa's face and projecting their 'self' toward new > > horizons in opposition to him personally. Whatever. This appears to be > > back-sliding activity. > > > > I can't imagine anything easier in this world than beating up on a > > buddhist. I should think it would be possible to go into business doing > > this (a life's work?). So until someone somewhere wants to stand up and > > share what they *know* and not what they *heard* I appreciate the > > difference between 'belief' and 'knowledge'. I don't know any buddhist > > who goes around defending and protecting their self-image. Whatever > > credentials you believe Trungpa was missing I think you missed the > > point. > > > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:57:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Hannah Weiner's Clairvoyant Journal on line Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed In honor of the 30th anniversary of the composition of Hannah Weiner's Clairvoyant Journal for March and April 1974, EPC now hosts a digital version of these sections of the 1975 Angel Hair edition. http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/weiner/cj/weiner-cover.html Note that March and April are the parts performed by Weiner on the New Wilderness Audiographic recording, also available in MP3 and RealAudio at the Weiner EPC author page. Charles Bernstein ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:10:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: recent stillborn images MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII recent stillborn images http://www.asondheim.org/twist.png http://www.asondheim.org/twistsub.png torsion at intersection / laminar breakdown original color scheme for twist http://www.asondheim.org/pu.jpg what brought in morning sickness this very morning http://www.asondheim.org/ 4d83.png - 4d89.png further 4-space useless mappings _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:16:57 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: cpmpc is updated In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040317161507.03c8dde0@writing.upenn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the chicago post modern poetry calendar is updated and full of events for awp week. I guess new york and san francisco will be empty for the week? Bring your long underwear as it snowed today!!!!!!!!!!!!! Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetrycalendar.blogspot.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:21:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fulcrum Annual Organization: Fulcrum Annual Subject: Fulcrum poetry reading at KGB Bar, NY, on March 24 -- please forward MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A Celebration of Fulcrum: an annual of poetry and aesthetics Wednesday, March 24, 7 p.m. @ Manhattan's KGB Bar, 85 E 4th Street (b/w Bowery & 2nd Avenue) Info: (212) 505-3360 Fulcrum: an annual of poetry and aesthetics is an international serial anthology of poetry and of critical and philosophical essays on poetry. It aims to offer a map of what is most important and vibrant in the current poetic process throughout the English-speaking world, with occasional detours into other lands. Reading participants: Jonathan Ames is the author of five books. His most recent, Wake Up, Sir!, will be published by Scribner in July. Billy Collins is a recent Poet Laureate of the United States and the author of numerous collections of poetry. Glyn Maxwell was born in Hertfordshire, England, and now lives in NY City. He is the author of several books of poetry, including The Breakage and The Nerve (both Houghton Mifflin), and the poetry editor of The New Republic. He teaches at Princeton and Columbia. Philip Nikolayev is the author of Monkey Time (2001 Verse Prize) and co-editor of Fulcrum. Katia Kapovich is the author of five books of Russian poetry. A collection of her English language poems, Gogol in Rome, is forthcoming from Salt later this year. She is co-editor of Fulcrum. Ben Mazer's poetry appears in leading international literary magazines (Agenda, Fulcrum, Jacket, Salt, Stand, Verse, etc.). He is the editor of the Collected Poems of John Crowe Ransom (Handsel Books, 2005) and of an anthology of the Berkeley Renaissance forthcoming in Fulcrum no. 3. Jeet Thayil is the author of English (Penguin/Rattapallax, 2004). His poems have appeared in Verse, Stand, Agenda, Fulcrum and London Magazine, among others journals. He lives in New York City, where he works as an editor and writer. Mark Lamoureux's work has appeared in Jubilat, Lungful!, Carve, Fulcrum, Art New England, Agni and others. His chapbook, 29 Cheeseburgers, was released by Boston's Pressed Wafer in 2004. Another chapbook, City/Temple, was published by Ugly Duckling Presse in 2003. He is the managing editor of Fulcrum. John Hennessy's poems have appeared or are forthcoming in Fulcrum, The Yale Review, Salt, Ontario Review, New Letters, Washington Square and other journals. His book manuscript, Bridge and Tunnel, is presently making the rounds of publishers. He teaches creative writing and literature at the University of Massachusetts. Andrew McCord's poems have appeared recently in various magazines, including The Pairs Review and Fulcrum. He is also a translator and publisher of Alef Books. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:52:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Fulcrum poetry reading at KGB Bar, NY, on March 24 -- please forward Comments: To: editor@FULCRUMPOETRY.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline My God that's a lot of guys! Couldn't you find any women beside the = editor? Hey I think I've a poem in that issue ....! Mairead www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com >>> editor@FULCRUMPOETRY.COM 03/17/04 22:13 PM >>> A Celebration of Fulcrum: an annual of poetry and aesthetics Wednesday, March 24, 7 p.m. @ Manhattan's KGB Bar, 85 E 4th Street (b/w Bowery & 2nd Avenue) Info: (212) 505-3360 Fulcrum: an annual of poetry and aesthetics is an international serial anthology of poetry and of critical and philosophical essays on poetry. It aims to offer a map of what is most important and vibrant in the current poetic process throughout the English-speaking world, with occasional detours into other lands. Reading participants: Jonathan Ames is the author of five books. His most recent, Wake Up, Sir!, will be published by Scribner in July. Billy Collins is a recent Poet Laureate of the United States and the author of numerous collections of poetry. Glyn Maxwell was born in Hertfordshire, England, and now lives in NY City. He is the author of several books of poetry, including The Breakage and The Nerve (both Houghton Mifflin), and the poetry editor of The New Republic. He teaches at Princeton and Columbia. Philip Nikolayev is the author of Monkey Time (2001 Verse Prize) and co-editor of Fulcrum. Katia Kapovich is the author of five books of Russian poetry. A collection of her English language poems, Gogol in Rome, is forthcoming from Salt later this year. She is co-editor of Fulcrum. Ben Mazer's poetry appears in leading international literary magazines (Agenda, Fulcrum, Jacket, Salt, Stand, Verse, etc.). He is the editor of the Collected Poems of John Crowe Ransom (Handsel Books, 2005) and of an anthology of the Berkeley Renaissance forthcoming in Fulcrum no. 3. Jeet Thayil is the author of English (Penguin/Rattapallax, 2004). His poems have appeared in Verse, Stand, Agenda, Fulcrum and London Magazine, among others journals. He lives in New York City, where he works as an editor and writer. Mark Lamoureux's work has appeared in Jubilat, Lungful!, Carve, Fulcrum, Art New England, Agni and others. His chapbook, 29 Cheeseburgers, was released by Boston's Pressed Wafer in 2004. Another chapbook, City/Temple, was published by Ugly Duckling Presse in 2003. He is the managing editor of Fulcrum. John Hennessy's poems have appeared or are forthcoming in Fulcrum, The Yale Review, Salt, Ontario Review, New Letters, Washington Square and other journals. His book manuscript, Bridge and Tunnel, is presently making the rounds of publishers. He teaches creative writing and literature at the University of Massachusetts. Andrew McCord's poems have appeared recently in various magazines, including The Pairs Review and Fulcrum. He is also a translator and publisher of Alef Books. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:11:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: infrared loft scan translation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII infrared loft scan translation qtqqqw14w sexualrythmsexualrythmsexualrythmsexualcockslut sexualrythmsexualrythmsexualrythmsexualcockslut sexualrythmsexualrythmsexualrythmsexualcockslut sexualrythmsexualrythmsexualrythmsexualcockslut suck soaked suck soaked suck soaked cum suck cum suck cum suck cum suck sexualrythmsexualrythm suck cum suck cum suck cum suck cum suck suck cum suck cum suck suck cum suck suck soaked sexualrythmsexualcockslut sexualrythmsexualrythmsexualrythmtits suck suck bloody suck sexualrythmsexualrythmsexualrythmsexualcockslut sexualrythmsexualrythmsexualrythmsexualcockslut sexualrythmsexualrythmsexualrythmsexualcockslut sexualcockslut tits suck cum suck cum suck cum suck suck suck suck bloody tits suck cum suck cum suck tits suck cum suck tits suck cum suck cum suck cum suck cum suck tits suck suck bloody tits suck sexualrythmsexualcockslut _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:22:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Deborah Subject: Re: infrared loft scan translation In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit shorthandpornography shorthandpornography shorthandpornography shorthandpornography shorthandpornography shorthandpornography shorthandpornography shorthandpornography shorthandpornography shorthandpornography thepassionthepassion christ. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:12 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: infrared loft scan translation infrared loft scan translation qtqqqw14w sexualrythmsexualrythmsexualrythmsexualcockslut sexualrythmsexualrythmsexualrythmsexualcockslut sexualrythmsexualrythmsexualrythmsexualcockslut sexualrythmsexualrythmsexualrythmsexualcockslut suck soaked suck soaked suck soaked cum suck cum suck cum suck cum suck sexualrythmsexualrythm suck cum suck cum suck cum suck cum suck suck cum suck cum suck suck cum suck suck soaked sexualrythmsexualcockslut sexualrythmsexualrythmsexualrythmtits suck suck bloody suck sexualrythmsexualrythmsexualrythmsexualcockslut sexualrythmsexualrythmsexualrythmsexualcockslut sexualrythmsexualrythmsexualrythmsexualcockslut sexualcockslut tits suck cum suck cum suck cum suck suck suck suck bloody tits suck cum suck cum suck tits suck cum suck tits suck cum suck cum suck cum suck cum suck tits suck suck bloody tits suck sexualrythmsexualcockslut _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:33:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: For: Sirkka-Liisa Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu In-Reply-To: <4058AC00.6503C1AB@delhi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Why is the cult of personality better if it's applied to Luther than say Trungpa? Making one's mind subservient seems at best infantile. Mark At 02:50 PM 3/17/2004 -0500, Kirby Olson wrote: >Sirkka-Liisa -- my mother in law's name is Sirkka-Liisa. Ok, can you >name a joy that Luther killed, or a joy that Trungpa provided? > >Sometimes you have to separate joy from laughter. I do remember that >Luther said we should not laugh and sing at the same time. Perhaps you >are referring to that. > >"Music doesn't sound right when there is laughter in connection with it, >for music is intended to cheer the spirit. The mouth gets no pleasure >from it. If one sings diligently, the soul, which is located in the >body, plays and derives special pleasure from it." This Martin Luther >said when we laughed during the singing at table. > >Table Talks p. 420 > >Other than this, I can't think of any joys that Martin killed. Even in >this he isn't trying to kill joy, but rather to preserve a higher joy >from a milder pleasure. Perhaps you have some other saying of brother >Martin's to which you are referring? > >Best, Kirby > > > >Sirkka-Liisa Phillips wrote: > > > I'll take Trungpa over kill-joy Luther anytime. > > > > --- > > Naropa University - an adventure in mind, body, and spirit. > > http://www.naropa.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 01:04:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: elen gebreab Subject: Oakland, CA: Please Attend: nocturnes (re)view celebrates the "blues" this Sunday, 3/21 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey friends: please come out and support this reading. Invite your friends and family! nocturnes (re)view of the literary arts celebrates the "blues" Where: Diesel, A Bookstore 5466 College Ave., Oakland (2 blocks south of Rockridge BART) www.dieselbookstore.com (510)653.9965 Time: Sunday, March 21, 2004 2:00 PM Title of Event: NOCTURNES Edited by giovanni singleton, nocturnes (re)view celebrates the publication of its third annual issue, the blues and its first CD. This Oakland-based journal features poetry, fiction, essays, translations, and visual art. Readers include: Amarnath Ravva, Gloria Frym, elen gebreab, Douglas D. Scot Miller, Al Young, Lisanne Thompson, Douglas Kearney, Pat Reed, and music by Richard ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:12:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: "Snapshot of Wednesday in a St. Patrick's Day Parade" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Snapshot of Wednesday in a St. Patrick's Day Parade w we wed wedn wedne wednes wednesd wednesda wednesday ednesday dnesday nesday esday sday day ay y Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard The Sonnet Project: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/The%20Sonnet%20Project.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 05:38:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Deborah Subject: info: 32 poems magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi everyone, Please visit the updated web site to read poems from the latest issue and get new submission guidelines... http://www.32poems.com. Wine Toast!! Stop by table #76 at AWP on March 26 at 3:45 pm for a wine toast. Hope to see you in Chicago. :) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:03:57 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ben Basan Subject: FW: "Anarchism and Literature" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I thought some on the list may be interested in this. -----Original Message----- from: Jesse Cohn (jcohn@pnc.edu) 2004 M/MLA Annual Convention November 4-7, St. Louis, Missouri Proposed Special Session: "Anarchism and Literature" Studies of the complex historical relationship between the anarchist movement and literary avant-gardes have proliferated since the publication of Richard Sonn=92s Anarchism and Cultural Politics in Fin-de-Si=E8cle France (1989) and David Weir=92s Anarchy and Culture (1995). What once might have seemed a curiosity now appears to have been central to the development of literary aesthetics: from the Pre-Raphaelites to the Symbolists, from the Expressionists to the Dadas, and from Pound=92s Vorticism to the Black Mountain poets, modernism is marked by anarchist struggles. This panel is an open invitation for papers that explore this conjunction between the aesthetic and the political. Possible topics include, but are not restricted to: The influence of anarchism on specific authors or literary works Literary works by anarchists and their political fellow-travellers (e.g., Ba Jin, Hugo Ball, Kenneth Rexroth, Louise Michel) The symbolic role of =93anarchist=94 characters in literary works Anarchist critiques of representation and literary/cultural struggles Literature that bears witness to moments in anarchist history =96 e.g., the Spanish Civil War, Sacco and Vanzetti, the Lawrence strike Anarchist aesthetics as part of labor culture (e.g., the Wobblies, the CNT) Saint Louis=92s anarcho-literary connections (e.g., Magon=92s newspaper Regeneracion, Emma Goldman=92s speeches, the anarchic =93Reign of the Rabble=94 in the 1877 Railroad Strike) What makes a literary text =93anarchist=94? Literary criticism by anarchists (e.g., Emma Goldman, Voltairine de Cleyre, Dora Marsden, Herbert Read, Paul Goodman): how does ideology inform interpretation? What is anarchist literary theory? What=92s next for anarchist studies in the discipline of English? Send abstracts by April 15th, 2004 to: Jesse Cohn Dept. of English Purdue University North Central 1401 South U.S. 421 Westville, Indiana 46391 E-Mail: jcohn@pnc.edu (office) Phone: (219) 785-5328 (office) ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:03:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: amerika...the land that once was, never In-Reply-To: <000701c40cf1$dc5339f0$0200a8c0@WORKSHOP> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://transdada.blogspot.com/ amerika...the land that once was, never today someone can get fired for being gay as a federal employe and it=20= is legal . . . and yet there is no up roar . . . today civic leaders,=20= local and state governments can pass antigay laws, and use hate speech=20= for getting votes; others simply pass ordinances kicking out gays from=20= there community . . . and we all get bored with the whole thing and=20 turn the station . . . today hate crimes are on the rise against gays,=20= from 2002 - 2003 up 12% (today even higher) . . . and it is already=20 way to boring, who cares about numbers . . . as the censor edits the=20 news of anything too gay or those who disagrees with the father land=20 from the newspapers and television . . . its in the courts, right, who=20= cares? nothing flashy going on . . . today we have a president speaking=20= of passing an amendment to bar equal rights . . . and we get distracted=20= by the vast amount of violence and lies on the other screen,=20 perpetrated by the same individual . . . today there is a homosexual=20 agenda, but not a christian agenda . . . today there is a gay agenda,=20 but not a heterosexual agenda . . . today in some neighborhood, some=20 child, is going be beat-up because they are seen as gay . . . today,=20 someone will not get a job because they are seen as different . . .=20 today is just another day in amerika where someone's deeply hidden=20 homophobia goes either unchecked as they stand there and watch as=20 someone gets beat up for being gay or, does nothing as laws are passed=20= left and right . . . or they let it all out, be an individual as we are=20= are all taught to be, and will spew out their violence and hate speech=20= on anther someone who may or many not be like them. its time amerika.. either to take a stand today and do something, take=20= some action, or be destine to repeat the past... transdada poetics, time, body disruption and marginally queer solutions http://transdada.blogspot.com/ today Thursday, March 18, 2004 -Critics step up gay marriage initiative drive -Companies offer more benefits to same-sex couples -Vandal takes scissors to cartoon in student newspaper at COS -Maneuver may aid marriage measure -OSC to study whether bias law covers gays -Gays to wed on City Hall steps -Board bars blood drives until gay men can donate -Gay marriages may get equal footing - in Norway -Activists blast same-sex marriage resolution -Is opposing same-sex marriage 'hate speech'? -Wilmington parents angered by children's book about gay princes -Tenn. County Wants to Charge Homosexuals * http://transdada.blogspot.com/ Wednesday, March 17, 2004 -Gay Marriage Issue Stands Between Racine Couple And Loan -Six Ways to Make Your Gay Relationship Financially Sound -Gays and lesbians won=92t settle for the back of the bus -No compromise on gay rights -High court makes move in gay marriage lawsuit -Marriage-amendment bill advances in House -Highlights from the Kansas Legislature -City Scorns Efforts to Ban Gay Marriage in Constitution -Cities across the country support same-sex marriage -Iowa county adopts nondiscrimination policy -National Black Justice Coalition holds marriage rally in L.A., March 18 -China recognizes second transsexual marriage -Arrest warrants issued in West Virginia gay bashing -LGBT Federal Workers Lose Job Protections and more @ http://transdada.blogspot.com/=20 =20= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:02:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Murphy Subject: Sheila E. Murphy Chicago Reading March 28 2:00 p.m. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Poet Sheila E. Murphy will be reading in Chicago on Sunday, March 28th at 2:00 p.m. for the Renaissance Society at the University of Chicago. READING Sheila E. Murphy Poet Sunday, March 28, 2:00 pm Cobb Hall Room 402 FREE "Murphy was the 2001 recipient of the Gertrude Stein Award for poetry. Hers is a complexly layered language of scraps and scrims compressed to kaleidoscopic effect. New/forthcoming books include Green Tea With Ginger (Potes & Poets Press); Letters to Unfinished J (Green Integer Press); and Incessant Seeds (Pavement Saw Press)." 5811 S. Ellis Avenue Bergman Gallery, Cobb Hall 418 Chicago, Illinois 60637 phone (773) 702-8670 fax (773) 702-9669 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:06:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Richards Subject: somebody run this ad MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Fade in to image of a troubled Ronald Reagan. Voice Over: A quarter of a century ago, this man asked a simple question: "Are you better off than you were four years ago?" Now a conservative administration has turned a trillion dollar surplus into a deficit totaling trillions of dollars. Are we better off than we were four years ago? What would Dutch think? Slow fade. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:32:48 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karl-Erik Tallmo Subject: what the hare told us Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" @@ @ @ !! @ @ @@@@ @@@@!! !@@@@ !! !!@@ !@@@@ ! @! !!@@@ @@@@@ !! @@@@!!!@@@@@!!! !! @@@ !!!@@!@@! !! !! @@@ @@@!!!@@@ !!!@@@ @@@@!!! !!!!@@@ !!@@@ ! !!!!!@@@@! !@@@ !!!@@@!! "" !!!!@@@@!!!!! /----!!-@@@!--------!----@!-----!@@!!@@-----"--------------@@@@!!-- / !!@@@@ @@@@!! !!@!@@@@! "" "!@@@@/ / !!@@@@! """"@@@@@!!!!@@!@@@@! " !!@@@@"/ / !@@@@@! " !!@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@! "" """ ! @@@!!/ / !@@@@@! "" !! !!!!@@@@@@@@@@@! " "" """"!!!!!! / / !!!! !!""" !!@@!! !!!!!! "" """ / / """"" "" !@@! !!!! """""""""" / / """ "" """"""!@@!!"""" """ """ " / / """"" "" !@@@! """" """ / / """" " !@@!! "" " @ / / """" """""""" !!@@!"""" "" !@@@@! / / """ """" """""""" !!!!! " " !@@@@! / / "" """""""""" " !@@@@@! / / """ """""""""" "" """"" " !@@@@@! / / "" """" """""" """" " !@@@@! / / """ "" """"" "" !@@@@! / /"""""""""""" """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""!@@@@!" // / "" """""" "" """""" """""!!@@@!!""" "" / / "" " """""" !!!!! """" / / """"""""""" " """"""" " / / """"" " "" """ """" / / " """" "" "" """""" / / " """ " "" / / " """ """ / / " """""" """""" / / " " """""" what the hare / / " " "" """ / / "" " " " "" told us in / / " "" " " / / " " " " snowish gardenese / / "" " " / / "" " """ march 1st 2004 / / " "" / / " / " / [to be viewed in a fixed-width font] /Karl-Erik Tallmo _________________________________________________________________ KARL-ERIK TALLMO, poet, writer, artist, journalist MAGAZINE: http://art-bin.com ARTWORK, WRITINGS etc.: http://www.nisus.se/tallmo/ __________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:39:40 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Todd Swift Subject: Seven Poets Gather to Celebrate 90th Anniversary of Imagism in London MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For Immediate Release - Please forward Seven Poets Gather to Celebrate 90th Anniversary of Imagism in London A group of young poets of international renown are gathering to celebrate new ways of seeing, and saying, in a witty, provocative, sometimes erotic, and often cosmopolitan gathering, ninety years after the birth of Imagism. This is a playful homage to the Pound Era. Featured readers will be: John Stammers (Panoramic Lounge-bar, Picador); Clare Pollard (Bedtime, Bloodaxe ); Antony Dunn (Flying Fish, Carcanet/Oxford Poets); Sarah Corbett (The Witch Bag, Seren); performance-writer Caroline Bergvall; Todd Swift (www.toddswift.com) and Budapest-based David Hill (www.lyriklife.com). All the poets are experienced and provocative performers of their work; and respected/award-winning published authors. Each, in their own way, works with a keen awareness of visual media, or imagery, in relation to language, and the page. A scintillating afternoon of poetry, wine, good humour, and broken icons, awaits. *** The Salon des Arts http://www.salondesarts.org/main.htm welcomes you to a special Sunday afternoon (April 18, 3-6) reading/cocktail party, on the subject of The New Image - 90 Years after Des Imagistes. It was in London, in 1914, that famed poet-impresario Ezra Pound edited the Des Imagistes anthology. Poets subsequently influenced by this movement include T S Eliot, William Carlos Williams, Wallace Stevens, and Marianne Moore. Now, in the 21st century, the image means so much more, and less - relating to the camera eye, the cinematic gaze, and the internet panopticon. David Hill and Todd Swift are poet-impressarios whose work together includes hosting the infamous Tea and Sympathy cabarets in Budapest, which led to the Bardroom series. Swift was recently compared to Ezra Pound in The Chronicle of Higher Education for his poetry projects. Hill is a poet who combines humour, panache and sheer gall to achieve side-splitting effects. Together Hill and Swift form a picture (if not pitch) perfect emcee duo. *** The New Image Poetry Reading Sunday 18th, April 2004 3-6pm Salon des Arts 191 Queen's Gate, Kensington Tel: 020 7589 3668 £6 (£5 concession) *** For more information, contact: Todd Swift at todd@toddswift.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:46:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU Subject: Re: a Marxian model of the social in poetry Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu In-Reply-To: <40574B93.B49051BD@delhi.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Kirby, I've caught just enough of your schtik on this List to know that I don't want to get into a drawn out argument with you. But I did want to briefly respond to what I read as a trite "guilt by association and implication" spin at the beginning of your post: "The posts between Mike Magee and Louis Cabri were interesting in that Emerson surfaced. I happen to be reading Peter S. Field's book The Crisis of the Standing Order: Clerical Intellectuals and Cultural Authority in Massachusetts, 1780-1833 (U of Massachusetts Press, 1998). In it Fields traces the mutation of Congregationalist churches into Unitarian associations. In the fifty year period that Fields is working within he also notes the rapid transition from fiery ministry to cultural authority. The turn from God, to poetry and other arts, as a source of standing in the community. The wealthy bought and paid for literary ministers who could entertain them with high wit, so that the literary ministers would in turn tell them it was ok in a religious sense to be rich, so long as they were moral, too. The two groups exchanged long dinners, and toasted one another. So in this sense the arts came to also be a buttress to the wealth of the great families whose children attended Harvard in that it showed that they deserved their place through the production of geniuses. Emerson's father was a minister in one of the most important churches in Boston." Nevermind that the "turn from God" as it relates to class is infinitely more complex than the above suggests -- I'll have to wait till I read Field's book to know whether he's represented acurately here. My point is simply that what you seem to be implying about Emerson's own trajectory vis a vis his father and Unitarianism is dead wrong. For starters, Emerson himself leaves the ministry in 1832 over a theological dispute. He is also banned from Harvard after delivering his "Divinity School Address" (1837), a ban which remains in place until 1872. During this time he throws himself headlong into abolitionism and, yes, does some of the most important thinking/writing ever on the relationship between the social and the aesthetic. My suspicion is that your wanting to talk about "Boston Brahmins" has more to do with some agenda involving John Kerry than it does Emerson. So be it. But I would encourage you and anyone else on this list interested in the back & forth between Louis and I to check out both Robert Richardson's incredibly well researched and written biography "Emerson: The Mind on Fire" as well as Len Gougeon's "Virtue's Hero: Emerson, Anti-Slavery and Reform." Emerson, we know, read Marx's article "Forced Emigration" in 1853 and it informed the section of _English Traits_ called "Wealth." Obviously this is a very comlicated topic -- Emerson and Marx are by no means identical in any facet of their thought. In my discussion w/ Louis I was only trying to talk briefly about the concept of "symbolic action" and it's origins in Emerson's anti-slavery writings. My own book, "Emancipating Pragmatism: Emerson, Jazz and Experimental Writing" will be out from U Alabama in a couple weeks. Peace, -m. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:51:31 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: For: Sirkka-Liisa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mark Weiss wrote: > Why is the cult of personality better if it's applied to Luther than say > Trungpa? Making one's mind subservient seems at best infantile. > > Mark Mark, I'd say that Luther wouldn't want a cult of personality at all. Whereas Trungpa was born as a divine figure -- when he was born, milk buckets and rainbows supposedly filled the sky. Luther just had, to my mind, an extraordinarily clear sense of what is valuable in life. His anti-semitism is disgraceful, for instance, and most Lutheran scholars (most of the rank and file don't know about it -- it's only fifty pages or so out of five bookshelves of lectures and writings) -- most Lutherans know that it's disgraceful. So we don't see Luther as a deity. We see him rather as a troubled guy with a very sharp clear mind that made Christianity comprehensible. I'd see him as more of a philosopher. The Lutheran line of philosophers such as Soren Kierkegaard -- they don't tell you what to think, but they ask you to do it for yourself, and show you some of the ropes, and then you're on your own. When Kierkegaard talks for example about how "existence precedes essence" -- a line picked up by Simone de Beauvoir and Sartre -- he's saying that we are not race, gender or class, but are individuals faced with our own solitude (Bataille and co. were a lot more influenced by Kierkegaard than they were willing to let on when they wrote of solitude) and that our value choices are our own active judgements (compare Marx who seems to claim that classes think alike due to material circumstances, or compare Hegel who thinks that we are merely some aspect of a universal history marching through time). Kierkegaard emphasizes that we are each alone with life, and must make our own choices. In a sense, he's against the trivialization of matters of judgement -- this is why Simone de Beauvoir got so much out of her link with Kierkegaard -- a woman is NOT a woman so much as she is a being whose soul/mind precedes her biological condition. Most feminists don't know Kierkegaard so they are blind to what SdB was actually saying, and how this existentialism drove the 50s left in France, and influenced many of the Beats. SdB is actually arguing for the individual's ability to think in history. This comes out of Kierkegaard. Unfortunately, the link to Kierkegaard was not well understood, and Kierkegaard's link to the Lutheran tradition even less well-understood. But the idea is that we stand alone before God. Our relation is personal, and is not to be mediated by the Pope, whom Luther considered the anti-Christ. I'm sure he would consider Trungpa as another aspect of the anti-Christ precisely because he attempted to break down the individual sense of judgement in matters of ethics and religion and even aesthetics and subordinate it to his own evil intentions. If you read Sanders' The Party, you will see what I mean by evil intentions. My jaw hit the floor. Ginsberg unfortunately left his early existentialist roots later on and went closer to Trungpa's sphere of influence, and his poetry and his ethics and everything else about him seems to have gone downhill. Harry Nudel's revelation of Ginsberg's sexual predatory aspect (as well as his well-known support of NAMBLA) is not so much infantile as it is an attempt to prey on the young. He set up the school in order to prey on kids. It's horrifying. Luther on the other hand is asking us to become adults, and all of his work was dedicated in that direction. That's why he developed a living tradition which is completely antithetical to the guru tradition of the passivity-producing Buddhists. Kierkegaard's Either/Or -- the active taking of choices -- and how we are responsible for those -- can help to make this clear -- but it's not a very easy philosophy or even denomination to really understand. It's an intellectual tradition (Luther was a brilliant academic) -- and perhaps even rivals the great Jewish tradition in creating some of the most outstanding works through which a human being can become a strong, functioning individual in a strong, functioning community. What happened in the 70s was this upsurge of guru-dom in which people surrendered their brains in exchange for peace. Maybe the worst was this Rajneeshi group in Oregon, but the remnants of those groups have never really come back. They are as shattered as the young men who fought in Vietnam. People hunger for religion (meaning). As the orthodox churches lost some of their standing in the 70s, many turned to gurus and to universal plans for peace. They surrended their brains in the process. We need to reconnect to older traditions, and to evaluate them, and get back on the right track, in my view. But, then, I am a killjoy! But I think Sirkka-Liisa doesn't really define joy very well. Yes, I think it is important to avoid mere pleasures that will cripple or kill you and to think about what is genuine joy. Service to others is a real joy, while preying on others is a sick pleasure, for example. -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:30:41 -0800 Reply-To: Todd Bar-on Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Todd Bar-on Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 15 Mar 2004 to 16 Mar 2004 (#2004-77) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TV EYE Todd Baron Chax Press 2004 (SPD and CHax distribute.) ------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:20:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sylvester pollet Subject: Congratulations Hoa Nguyen/Dale Smith! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I've heard from Dale that Waylon Hart Smith was born at home Saturday March 13. All's well. Sylvester ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:25:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Save the Sierra Club from Hostile Takeover (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Apologies for sending to the list, but this is true - please take action if you can - Alan ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:17:50 -0800 From: "Wes Boyd, MoveOn.org" To: Alan Sondheim Subject: Save the Sierra Club from Hostile Takeover Dear MoveOn member, Are you a Sierra Club member? The future of the Sierra Club is at stake. Outsiders are trying to take over the Club by placing stealth candidates on the Club's board ballot this year. This is driven by anti-immigration activists, and their tactics are underhanded -- they aren't declaring their real issue positions to members. They hope that low participation and confusion will allow them to stack the board of directors. You can stop this, but you must vote now in the Sierra Club board election. You probably have already received the ballot in the mail. We've attached below an outreach from Groundswell Sierra -- a volunteer network of Sierra Club members working to defeat this threat. This outreach includes a list of endorsed candidates. We recommending printing this email and having it on hand as you fill out your ballot. If you'd like more information on this threat, go to: http://www.groundswellsierra.org/takeover_index.php Thank you, -Carrie, Joan, Noah, Peter, and Wes The MoveOn.org team Tuesday, March 18th, 2004 P.S. You won't be hearing from the Sierra Club directly about this underhanded maneuver by anti-immigration activists. Sierra Club staff cannot speak out about board elections. It's up to us. You can review an article on this attempted takeover by former Sierra Club President, Adam Werbach, at: Hostile Takeover Anti-immigration coalition seeks control of Sierra Club By Adam Werbach | 3.9.04 http://inthesetimes.com/comments.php?id=644_0_2_0_M Key excerpt: "In 1998 the membership voted overwhelmingly to stay out of the (immigration) issue, restating that the most effective way to deal with the impact of population on the planet is to reduce levels of American waste and to raise the global status of women." P.P.S. You can vote on line, but only with your paper ballot in hand. For more information: http://www.groundswellsierra.org/vote.php ________________ ACTION ALERT FROM GROUNDSWELL SIERRA: The Sierra Club has been targeted for a hostile takeover by anti-immigration, animal rights and other groups who are running petition candidates with no Sierra Club experience for the Board of Directors. Don't take our word for it: The Los Angeles Times, Santa Fe New Mexican, Denver Post, and Philadelphia Inquirer have all warned that the threat is serious. That's why Groundswell Sierra - a diverse group of Sierra Club volunteers who are working to defend the Sierra Club - is asking you to support five Nominating Committee-recommended candidates who have over 75 years of collective experience as Sierra Club grassroots activists and will put their loyalty to the Sierra Club above their personal agendas: NICK AUMEN, Everglades restoration scientist and former Sierra Club Treasurer and Vice President for Conservation. DAVE KARPF, Recent Director of Sierra Student Coalition, and Chair of the Sierra Club's Training and national EPEC field programs. JAN O'CONNELL, Sierra Club Treasurer, former Vice President for Organizational Effectiveness, fundraiser in the Sierra Club's beat-Bush effort. SANJAY RANCHOD, delegate to the U.N. Kyoto global warming negotiations and Chair of the Sierra Club's Sustainable Planet Strategy Team. LISA RENSTROM, leader of the Harvard project to strengthen the Sierra Club's groups and chapters, former Director, former Foundation Trustee, and former Chair of the Sierra Club's fundraising efforts. Nick, Dave, Jan, Sanjay, and Lisa have brought experience and dedicated leadership to the Sierra Club. They have led our conservation priority campaigns, the Sierra Club's EPEC program, help strengthen the Sierra Club's financial health, run the Sierra Student Coalition, and represented the Sierra Club at UN conferences on the Kyoto accord on global warming. (For information on these candidates, go to our website, http://www.groundswellsierra.org ) At a time when the Sierra Club's own democratic process is being used against us, when our agenda and assets are targeted for takeover by outsiders, we are giving Nick, Dave, Jan, Sanjay, and Lisa our unqualified support. These are trusted leaders who have shown that they value the Club's mission and grassroots culture, and who believe only a united and strong Sierra Club can stop George Bush's assaults on our air, water, wild lands and wildlife. Finally, we would be remiss if did not acknowledge the invaluable contributions former Board Directors Chad Hanson, Michael Dorsey and Ed Dobson have made to the Sierra Club's conservation work, and we wish them well in this election. Please share this email with as many of your friends and other Sierra Club members as you can. Urge them to visit our website ( http://www.groundswellsierra.org ), and when their ballots arrive in early March, please VOTE! There's a lot at stake. The following quotes explain why. "We're only three directors away from controlling the board. And, once we get three more directors elected...[We'll] change the entire agenda of that organization." -- Paul Watson, Sierra Club Director and animal rights activist at the center of the take over effort. "If they succeed. Our integrity, our credibility and our reputation will be severely damaged and we will be rendered less effective on all the issues our members care about." -- Ross Vincent, long time Sierra Club activist. "Fighting over immigration policy nearly destroyed the Sierra Club's effectiveness once; it cannot be allowed to happen again by electing people to the board whose purpose is to overthrow its established policies. We should not be battling each other when our main task must be to end the worst administration in the history of our nation." -- Paul Ehrlich, Bing Professor of Population Studies, Stanford University "Sierra Club has an essential role and voice in the debate over the health of our environment. It is crucial that this voice and leadership are maintained and strengthened during these challenging times." --Carol Browner, Chair of National Audubon Society, former EPA Administrator, 1993-2001. "Now more than ever we need a strong Sierra Club. With the Bush administration's assault on the environment, we need directors who care about its 112- year mission. Please support these five nominated candidates." --Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., Environmentalist and NRDC Board Member Learn more: http://www.groundswellsierra.org ** PLEASE PASS THIS ON TO YOUR SIERRA CLUB MEMBER FRIENDS ** By circulating this to your personal contacts, you can help support the Sierra Club's democratic culture against outsider takeover. Please don't spam; spam works against us. ________________ Subscription Management: This is a message from MoveOn.org. To remove yourself (Alan Sondheim) from this list, please visit our subscription management page at: http://moveon.org/s?i=2469-1083850-epY5gQn98fXDzQCoI760mA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:03:25 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: a Marxian model of the social in poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mike, I don't know very much at all about Emerson. I'm doing research on the influence of Unitarians at Harvard for part of a larger project (I don't know if it will be completed) and that's why I am reading the Peter S. Field book The Crisis of the Standing Order. I think I read The essay on Self-Reliance by Emerson, but don't know much else. I valued your paragraph below -- this is the sort of meat I was asking for. I am actually pretty harmless, honestly. As for Kerry, I thought that he went to Yale, and was raised as a Catholic. He's Irish. So, he doesn't seem to me to fit this conversation, but I am also interested in how he might. Edwards clearly has stated that he is a big fan of the arts. Kerry, as with most things, is winning by keeping his head down and trying to appeal to everybody. I don't know much about him or his background aside from a few demographic details. Could he be said to in any sense be a Boston Brahmin? The Brahmins, according to the Field book, came out of the old Congregational background, and slowly turned toward the arts rather than to theology as a source of power. When they effectively take over Harvard with the election of Henry Ware as Hollis Professor, Harvard changes over within fifteen years to an almost completely secular institution, and begins to produce literary people, rather than ministers. "The real revolution in the Brahmin transformation of Harvard, as well as in Boston's churches, was their conscious movement from strictly theological concerns toward literary, high-cultural preoccupations" (125-126). This isn't an area or a period about which I know very much. But it sounds to me as if Emerson's turn away from the church is part of the very movement that Field is painting. Peter Quartermain alluded to Emerson's removal from HArvard in a backchannel post a few months back. I've been mired most of my life in minor questions to do with surrealism. I'm only now really trying to understand some of the conflicts in American intellectual life. So your post was a big part of the puzzle for me. Unfortunately I'm rather isolated and am stumbling through a lot of this. The only time I get very testy is when I run into what I consider to be too little willingness to think through a whole tangle of problems and to try to forestall conversation. I want to read your book, but am too dumb in this area to review it, so will have to wait til the price goes down. I wish you'd spell out more about the link as you see it between Marx and Emerson, but maybe you've done that in your book, and don't want to deal with it any further here. I'd like to know how you think they go together, and ways they might not. I'm also interested to know how Emerson supported himself if he dropped out of the ministry and also wasn't working at Harvard. I seem to remember that he had a large enough estate that he was able to help out Thoreau. But I can do this research myself by finding a quick biography somewhere on the web or I can get the biographies you mention below. I only want a thumbnail sketch though because I am actually researching another area and don't have time to read large things not having directly to do with the topics of urbanism that I am trying to understand. I hope your book does well. Academic books are doing less and less well, it seems. Perhaps at least this exchange has allowed you to advertize your book, and maybe someone on the board will review it for you. This happened to me on my Corso book! -- Kirby mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU wrote: > Kirby, I've caught just enough of your schtik on this List to know that I don't > want to get into a drawn out argument with you. But I did want to briefly > respond to what I read as a trite "guilt by association and implication" spin > at the beginning of your post: > > "The posts between Mike Magee and Louis Cabri were interesting in that Emerson > surfaced. I happen to be reading Peter S. Field's book The Crisis of the > Standing Order: Clerical Intellectuals and Cultural Authority in Massachusetts, > 1780-1833 (U of Massachusetts Press, 1998). In it Fields traces the mutation > of Congregationalist churches into Unitarian associations. In the fifty year > period that Fields is working within he also notes the rapid transition from > fiery ministry to cultural authority. The turn from God, to poetry and other > arts, as a source of standing in the community. The wealthy bought and paid > for literary ministers who could entertain them with high wit, so that the > literary ministers would in turn tell them it was ok in a religious sense to be > rich, so long as they were moral, too. The two groups exchanged long dinners, > and toasted one another. So in this sense the arts came to also be a buttress > to the wealth of the great families whose children attended Harvard in that it > showed that they deserved their place through the production of geniuses. > Emerson's father was a minister in one of the most important churches in > Boston." > > Nevermind that the "turn from God" as it relates to class is infinitely more > complex than the above suggests -- I'll have to wait till I read Field's book > to know whether he's represented acurately here. My point is simply that what > you seem to be implying about Emerson's own trajectory vis a vis his father and > Unitarianism is dead wrong. For starters, Emerson himself leaves the ministry > in 1832 over a theological dispute. He is also banned from Harvard after > delivering his "Divinity School Address" (1837), a ban which remains in place > until 1872. During this time he throws himself headlong into abolitionism and, > yes, does some of the most important thinking/writing ever on the relationship > between the social and the aesthetic. > > My suspicion is that your wanting to talk about "Boston Brahmins" has more to do > with some agenda involving John Kerry than it does Emerson. So be it. But I > would encourage you and anyone else on this list interested in the back & forth > between Louis and I to check out both Robert Richardson's incredibly well > researched and written biography "Emerson: The Mind on Fire" as well as Len > Gougeon's "Virtue's Hero: Emerson, Anti-Slavery and Reform." Emerson, we know, > read Marx's article "Forced Emigration" in 1853 and it informed the section of > _English Traits_ called "Wealth." Obviously this is a very comlicated topic -- > Emerson and Marx are by no means identical in any facet of their thought. In > my discussion w/ Louis I was only trying to talk briefly about the concept of > "symbolic action" and it's origins in Emerson's anti-slavery writings. My own > book, "Emancipating Pragmatism: Emerson, Jazz and Experimental Writing" will be > out from U Alabama in a couple weeks. > > Peace, > > -m. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:19:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Events at the Poetry Project 3/22-3/24 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Poetry Project Silent Auction April 17, 3pm-7pm $10/$8 members St. Mark=B9s Church Sanctuary and Parish Hall Telephone Bids at 212-674-0910 up to Friday, April 16th at 6pm Full Catalog and Minimum Bids to be posted at www.poetryproject.com/announcements.html by April 1st Rare books, magazines, broadsides, prints, paintings, collages and more! Monday, March 22 Jerome Sala & Darcey Steinke Jerome Sala is the author of many books, including cult classics such as Spaz Attack, I Am Not a Juvenile Delinquent, and more recently, Raw Deal: New and Selected Poems. A new collection, Media Effects, is due out in Fall 2004 from Soft Skull Press. Darcey Steinke is the author of three novels, U= p Through the Water, Suicide Blonde, and Jesus Saves, all of which were New York Times Notables. Her journalism has appeared in The Chicago Tribune Magazine, The Guardian (London), and The New York Times, as well as in Spin= , George, and Art Forum. Her web project Blindspot was chosen for the 2000 Whitney Biennial. Her new book Milk will be out next fall, and she is currently writing a book of theology. Wednesday, March 24 Renee Gladman & Lisa Robertson Renee Gladman is a native of Atlanta who lived in the San Francisco Bay Are= a from 1994 to 2001, where she published Clamour, a journal of experimental writing by women (1996-1999), and founded Leroy (in 1999), a chapbook serie= s for short works of prose and poetry. Since leaving the Bay Area, she has launched two other publishing ventures (still in their infant stages): Leon Works, a perfect-bound series, and most recently, Leona, a miniature chapbook series. Her own books include The Activist (Krupskaya, 2003) and Juice (Kelsey St. Press, 2000). She lives in New York City and works as a recording engineer for an audio books company. Canadian writer Lisa Robertson was born in Toronto in 1961 into a long line of nurses, homemakers, suffragettes, seamstresses and flaneuses. She migrated to British Columbia in 1979 in order to become a tree planter, and was later educated at Simon Fraser University and the Kootenay School of Writing. She now lives in Paris, and works as a freelance writer and teacher. She has published three books of poetry: XEclogue (Tsunami Editions 1993, reissued by New Star, 1999), Debbie: An Epic (1997; nominated for the Governor-General=B9s Award for Poetry), and The Weather (2001, winner of the Relit Award for Poetry) (both co-published by New Star in Canada and Realit= y Street Editions in the UK). Just out with Clear Cut Press (Astoria) is a ne= w book, Occasional Works and Seven Walks from the Office for Soft Architecture, a linked series of prose walks and essays on city space, architecture, and the phenomenology of surfaces. She contributes a regular decorating horoscope to Nest: a Quarterly of Interiors, under the pen name Swann. Her essays on the visual arts appear frequently in gallery catalogue= s (most recently in Baja to Vancouver, California College for the Arts, San Francisco), and essays and reviews on poetry have been published by The Globe and Mail, American Book Review, Stand, and The Stranger. She has been visiting poet at the University of Cambridge, University of California at San Diego, and at Capilano College, North Vancouver. * =B3A mystery of love lies concealed in the metal;/ =8CEverything is sentient!=B9=B2--G=E9rard de Nerval * The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. =20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 06:33:54 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Platt Subject: /F Second Table of Spirits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Acid Dblspace American Voodoo Secret Acid Saturn SHARE Seal Seal Agent Charm of Success & Agents Algiers Occult Circle User. Air of Relief From Four Alt + Esc Hypnotics Jinx Altar Seal of MB Beelzebuth Anselm Anti-Inflammatory Black Calc Thru Antagonist Brand Shoestring Root Save Anticoagulant Substitute Sun Seal Knowledge Antihistamine Spirits Bend Over Bios Appetite Suppressant Clock Camel Tooth Art Amulet Black Cat Calendar Arthritis Sun Transporting Black Cat Attraction Antidote Dipswitch Seal Motion Bone Metabolism Regulator Circle of Bone Treatment DSWAP Seal Bishop Boss Fix Face of Shaddai Bowel Charm Evacuant Control Colony Calling Gastrointestinal Heart of Swallow Candle Blood Component Charm Eighth Caravaca Duodenal Ulcer Adherent Holy Cat Demon Antiparasitic Shift + Cerebral ICON Metabolic Witchcraft Ctrl Cinnamon Memmaker True Love Knot Circle of Invocation INSERTINSERTLITANY (contd) Circle of Surgat Beneficial Dream Commanding Soundrec Cockle Good Luck Ctrl + Tab Calcium Charm Cold Preparation Pyskelia Signet Devils Antiseptic Triangle of Pifedit Diabetes EGA Jupiter Seal of Diarrhea KB Saturn Seal Of Digestant Receptor Repentant Root Seal Dignostic Spirits Envy & Jealousy Dopamine Love Port Holiness Seal Down Arrow Seal Mars Victory Earth Select All Stimulant Storm Ergot Get Away MSCDEX Fate Exe Analgesic All Evil All EXE Venus Snuff Seal of Factors Recover Come To Me Fast "L" Diaper Rash Saturn Fiber Supplement Seven Heads Of Fifth Table of Twisting Saturn Fire of Egyptian Signet of Future WSAP Infant Formula Galacto Generation and Citation Seal Salt Glory FDISK Die of Good Glow of Attraction Assign Agent God Gout Treatment Hathor Love Goddess of Fibrinolytic Evil INI Gold Enhancer Everyone's Circle of Good Luck In Zoom Nasal Good Spirits Anti-infective Miscellaneous Black Governing & Knowing the Jum Graveyard Kinetic Votive Dust Refill Great Fortune By Triangle of Green Love Orange Love Pink Guland VSAFE Dental Dreams & Hand Preparation Magnificent Sardonyx Fertility Happy Times Gonadotropin Inhibitor Seal Hemostatics Instigation Ctrl + Esc Holy Cross Of Sol Catseye Honour & Bookmark Mucolytic Arts Hormone Pentacle of Mars Courting Hyphen Cardiovascular Protection From Conquering Immunosuppresive Solomon Jinx Terminal Twelfth Insect Sting Jupi Seal of Inspiring Seal of Good Memory Invisibility Hair Growth Dos Stimulant Invoking Formost PC Electrolytes Psychic Invoking SCSI Bechard Herpes Treatment Jum Jum Write Black Pullet Lady Concentration Pah-Kwa Alt + Left Arrow Egyptian Menat Charmap Love Allergen Pentacle Double Cross Love DLL Lipbalm Good Luck Love Red Love Yellow Love Luck Contraceptive Controlling Seal Against Lucky Good Luck Spiritual EMM386 Lucky LCD Good Luck Fluoride Making Business Better Conquering Catecholamine MPLAYER Good Luck Mameluk Compelling MSD Dissolution French Love Most Mus Sun Analogue of Honor Mus Systemic DOSX Happy Go Muscle Relaxant Things Parasympatholytic Preview Notepad Dermatological Seal of Good Nucleoside White Love Seal of of Deodorant Delight Jupiter Seal of Destruction Detoxifying Shift + of Devil's Snuff Cytoprotective Toggle of Fire Inflammatory Histamine Antagonist of Immortality Agents Easy Wrath of Michael Antacid Anger CHKDSK of Mouthwash Deliverance Alt + of NLSFUNC Flying Devil Luck of Overcoming Lawsuits and Disputes of Preserving Fast Luck Death Of Service In All Venus Pacts Blessed Seal of Anti-Oxident Plenty Hemorrheologic MB Saturn Seal Powerful Endometriosis Hand Management Dos Preparation Progman Damnation Lemegeton Cough Preventing Death Green Pixel Gastric Protection Enuresis Wealth Maximized Treasure Protection Hot Foot Hematinic CPU Protection Jupiter Seal of Dfrag Protection Pbrush Blessing Blue Love Ram Devil Shoestring Cosmetics Riches Removing Catherine DeMedici Seal of Right Arrow Wealth & Betting Saints Seal of Mars Amino Seal As You Please Macro Seal of Astoroth Draw Across Seal of Destruction Horn of Seal of DRWATSON Wealth Dreams Seal of Invoking F6 Bechard Seal of Limoch Anesthetic CMOS Seal of Love Hyperammonia Invocation Seal of Lucifer Stimulating Domination Seal of Solomon Anorectal OS Seal of The Spirit of Select Signet Management Mars Black Semi-precious Leopard SVGA Go Away Shebiri Printman Seal of Hyperglycemic Sickness Remedies Narcotic Tip Of Silcharde Antiflatulent Ancient Wisdom Fastopen Sixth Table of Jupiter Thief SMRTDRV Spirits Spirits Ten Slivers Spirits House Dressing of the Spray Play First Table of Stay At Home Water of Success Append Fiery Wall of Sun Seal of Hi Altar Sunburst Snake Biological Sysedit Charm Syntax Antineoplastic Cleopatra Mercury Caduceus Systemic Fungal Goofer Dust Black Systemic Goddess of Love Onyx Tab Saturn SATOR ASCII Palindrome Table of Easy Life Seal Table of Spirits of White Table of Wear Away Shemhamforasch Taskman Laxative Power Jupiter Seal The Day Antagonist Necessity VGA Thieves Good Luck Mystic Gallstone Third Table of Spirits of Touchstone SUBST Fibrotics Teasing Lover Versatile Ctrl + End of Visions Cholinesterase Delight Inhibitor Jupiter Visions Menstral Preparation Brand Fourth Water Lung Surfactant Shift + Wealth Confusion Format C: Cerumenolytic Winhelp Sun Seal of Freedom ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:11:00 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Hustlers..Beats..& Moi...hers.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I hate being in the positon of defending Allen G...but there is a platonic tradition...there was a platonic tradition..."i'll teach you what a prick is,you little prick"...&....& ....&... it was a dif time.. Surprised with all this Naropa stuffe...nobody's mentioned the mormons yet..another autocratic movemen t that did very well..in nouveau wild wild riche west... Allen G was a shocker..an epaterier who in mid-age...just like castro became what he hated...so...the tide rolls in on... Gregory like mon cher Ami Ted..always seemed to out hustle himself more than the other guy....so much talke and energy to so little purpo$$$e...the forged notebooks..the fake inscrip.. "Dear Gregory..ONE FOR THE ROAD.. Jack" are worth more dead than alive.. I just found my copy of..Beats Hustlers and Etc..that Ned inscribed to moi...we're types..pool sharks..po sharks..scholars..gypsies .singers of lost tunes..the last days of our lives it rained in the aft...drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:15:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The Moon is Wanin out there MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Moon is Wanin out there ne, it's ?1894)Repombers. a writer, or slaves in the forest. through my >obotics will be hands-on; the demo this writing is a graphological mechanism of the slaves in the forest. art, crafts, will be with the actual electronic components, sensors, this writing is a graphological meditation of the forest hermitage. how you plan to collabor The workshop will focus on the specific n that takes me upon the boat. this marches me upon the boat. OTHER CMDS > during the retreat.d with robotics: this is an imaginative return.imple and affordable. Therehef written disappearance this writing is a graphological mechanism of the slaves in the forest. through my > > :that way they c:this writing is out there. i don't believe in coding this writing. this writing uses no protocols whatsoever. this writing is in another language, but this writing is in no language whatsoever. this writing 'just dodged a bullet from space.' this writing colonizes this writing. this writing is colonized by that writing. but this writing is at the end of a board or lever or seesaw and this writing is close to toppling. then again this writing is teetering over the abyss or void. this writing is at the borders of legibility. this writing is beyond them. but this writing is definitely uncoded. this writing is definitely open for all to read. this writing is of the utmost clarity. this writing is pure. this writing is out there and farther than anyone can reach. i can't reach this writing. repetition is a return through defuge to the imaginary uncanny :this writing is a graphological meditation of the forest hermitage.:this is an imaginative return. this writing is a graphological mechanism of the slaves in the forest. this writing is a graphological meditation of the forest hermitage. that takes me upon the boat. this marches me upon the boat. this is an imaginative return. Alarm set for Thu Mar 18 20 ne, it's ?1894)Repo Are you satisfied with your > ?he Ju Would you like to add to yesinf A turmoil and desperationement iner was a member o nightmare!r 18 A turmoil and desperationAlarm set for Thu Mar 18 20 ne, it's ?1894)Repo _ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:09:30 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: The Moon is Wanin out there Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 I called my mom in NYC today and asked her, "what the frig day is it?" Thusly she replied: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Ma r 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2 004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Th u, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 20 04 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu , 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 1 8 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 M ar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 200 4 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 T hu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Ma r 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2 004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Th u, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 20 04 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu , 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 1 8 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 M ar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 200 4 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 T hu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Ma r 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2 004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Th u, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 20 04 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu , 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 1 8 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 M ar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 200 4 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 T hu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Ma r 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2 004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Th u, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 20 04 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu , 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 1 8 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 M ar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 200 4 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 T hu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Ma r 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2 004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Th u, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 20 04 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu , 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 1 8 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 M ar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 200 4 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 T hu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Ma r 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2 004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Th u, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 20 04 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu , 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 1 8 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 M ar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 200 4 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 T hu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Mar 2004 Thu, 18 Ma r 2004 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Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:15:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: a Marxian model of the social in poetry MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT There's been a "oh...lordy-lord!" mention here recently of poetry's "social role," as if the social were poetry's robes, poet puts on "the robes," goes walking, talking, essaying, scolding, lecturing, preaching.... Olson's out again at 1 a.m., on the Cut's bridge, facing down a police cruiser, measuring his verse against the tides before him, as well as the clock timing through him.... Me likes it! (Impossible likeness!) But, does not confining the social to robes' roles (rote rituals, or "ordinary" animadversions) confine the social's appearance in poetry to representations of agency ("symbolic actions" on a Burkean stage)? It's not a new question by any stretch, and to it there's no straight answer worth its Alt button attitude. I address a particular conflation of "social" and "role," in the upcoming XCP essay ("role" as socialist realism; "social" as command), which still seems to apply (as the recent use of "social role" suggests). I only have hunches about where R. Waldo is (the social's cognate "society" is _versus_ a transcendental pragmatism, as conformism is versus self-reliance, but with complications keeping this messy and interesting)...regrettably my own hand in disabusing myself of these hunches must be played another time. I am looking forward to reading Mike's book for any insights into the term's usages and contexts, as no doubt many others will want to read his book for all sorts of other compelling reasons, too. But, meanwhile...think of Socrates's oracle that forbids but does not command. Now think of it reversed and skewed: "oracle" that commands and does not forbid. Sounds - appalling. But, it does not sound. For think of this new oracle constituting, constitutive of, an empty injunction (ie, there is no specific message in the command to obey and act upon). There you have a finition, as opposed to a de-finition, of the social. All best, Louis ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:15:53 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Edmond Jabes Resources Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 besides blanchot, any other good [re]sources concerning my man edmond jabes? at our library (University of Maryland) I'm not coming up with too much. I'd like to have some alternate sources because I'm planning on reviving the guy. He's the man. Thanks for yr help. Much appreciated. Chris -- _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:27:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: [Fwd: from Virlana/Yara Arts Group] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thought you might be interested in this: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: from Virlana/Yara Arts Group Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:33:26 -0500 From: Yara To: Dear Friends, Our show "The Warrior's Sister," got some nice press over the weekend - see http://www.brama.com/yara/warrior-review.html . "The Warrior's Sister," is on Thur- Sun this weekend only ( through March 21) an original world music theater piece based on a Buryat epic about the sister of a legendary warrior who puts on his armor when he is killed, the cast includes: Eunice Wong, Andrew Colteaux, Hettienne Park, Meredith Wright and Buryat artists Sayan and Erzhena Zhambalov, Victor Zhalsanov and Bayarto Endonov. Virlana Tkacz directs, Watoku Ueno designs, music is traditional and by Emilio China. Translation of the epic song is by Sayan Zhambalov, Virlana Tkacz and Wanda Phipps. Thur -Sun at 8PM = Sun at 3PM La MaMa 74a East 4th St New York City 212-475-7710 tickets $15 For more information on the show http://www.brama.com/yara/warrior.html :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: : :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: : :: Other related events March 16 -April 4 "Old Ways in a New Land" exhibit of photographs of Buryat villages in China by Alexander Khantaev La MaMa Annex, NYC (212) 475-7710 Mar 23 "Uragsha" will perform upstate at the Lake Placid Center for the Arts in Lake Placid, NY at 7PM tickets $12/35 (518) 523-2512 Check www.brama.com/yara/buryat04.html for the latest updates. Hope to see you Virlana -- Wanda Phipps Hey, don't forget to check out my website MIND HONEY http://users.rcn.com/wanda.interport (and if you have already try it again) poetry, music and more! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:43:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William A Sylvester Subject: Sheila Murphy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sheila E. Murphy will be reading in Chicago on Sunday, March 28th at 2:00 pm.. for the Renaissance Society at the University of Chicago Murphy was the 2001 recipient of the Gertrude Stein Award for poetry. NEW Green Tea with Ginger (Potes & Poets Press) Letters to Unfinished J (Green Integer Press) Incessant Seeds (Pavement Saw Press) BROADSIDE: New Moment (Buffalovortex) Bergman Gallery, Cobb Hall 418 5811 S. Ellis Avenue Chicago Illinois 60637 1-773-702-8670) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:01:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Jerrold Shiroma [ duration press ]" Subject: Re: Edmond Jabes Resources MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit _Lavish Absence_ by Rosmarie Waldrop _The Sin of the Book_ ed. Eric Gould _Questioning Edmond Jabès_ by Warren Motte Derrida's essay "Edmond Jabès & the Question of the Book" in _Writing and Difference_ tho, in all honesty, not sure he needs to be 'revived'... ----- Original Message ----- From: "furniture_ press" To: Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:15 PM Subject: Edmond Jabes Resources > besides blanchot, any other good [re]sources concerning my man edmond jabes? at our library (University of Maryland) I'm not coming up with too much. I'd like to have some alternate sources because I'm planning on reviving the guy. > > He's the man. > > Thanks for yr help. Much appreciated. > > Chris > -- > _______________________________________________ > Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net > Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year! > > Powered by Outblaze > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:05:58 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ela kotkowska Subject: Re: Edmond Jabes Resources In-Reply-To: <20040319021553.AB6803982ED@ws5-1.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable there were two Colloques de C=E9risy devoted to EJ one in 1987 (=C9crire = le livre -- published 1989) & in 2003 (Hors genres -- unpubl, so far)... -- this is a good place to start to find people who work on EJ in English, obviously, Rosmarie Waldrop has written some excellent = things besides transl. In French, look at work of Eric Benoit;=20 EJ's voice: http://www.radiofrance.fr/parvis/jabes.htm ... i think the interest in jab=E8s is quite alive, although perhaps not = so much in American academia.=20 Edmond Jab=E8s is in my heart right next to =C9mile Cioran. -- =E9lectrice, * incertainplume.blogspot.com =20 -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] = On Behalf Of furniture_ press Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:16 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Edmond Jabes Resources besides blanchot, any other good [re]sources concerning my man edmond = jabes? at our library (University of Maryland) I'm not coming up with too much. = I'd like to have some alternate sources because I'm planning on reviving the guy. He's the man. Thanks for yr help. Much appreciated. Chris -- _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:22:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: Edmond Jabes Resources In-Reply-To: <20040319021553.AB6803982ED@ws5-1.us4.outblaze.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v612) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A good way in are his "Dialogues with Marcel Cohen" published as _From the Desert to the Book_ Station Hill Press, Barrytown, N.Y., spring 1989. Translated by yours truly -- though I am not certain if the book is still in print. Pierre On Mar 18, 2004, at 9:15 PM, furniture_ press wrote: > besides blanchot, any other good [re]sources concerning my man edmond > jabes? at our library (University of Maryland) I'm not coming up with > too much. I'd like to have some alternate sources because I'm planning > on reviving the guy. > > He's the man. > > Thanks for yr help. Much appreciated. > > Chris > -- > _______________________________________________ > Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net > Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for > just US$9.95 per year! > > Powered by Outblaze > > ___________________________________________________________ In philosophical terms, human liberty is the basic question of art. -- Joseph Beuys ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:31:10 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: Poet Laureate of Queens Up for Grabs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable NYT March 17, 2004 Ah, Poetic Injustice! Seeking a Laureate, Queens Goes Blank By ROBERT F. WORTH Hal Sirowitz is one of those rare New York writers who is willing =E2=80=94=20= eager,=20 in fact =E2=80=94 to identify himself with the borough of Queens. A tall man= with a=20 shambling gait, scraggly beard and thick glasses, he has made a career of=20 turning outer-borough alienation into deadpan humor. But lately Mr. Sirowitz has been growing nervous. He finished his term as=20 the official poet laureate of Queens in December, and ever since, a=20 committee of Queens librarians and professors has been struggling to find=20 his replacement. The winner must be someone who has lived in Queens for at=20 least five years and has written, in English, "poetry inspired by the=20 borough." The committee has not found anyone. So far the search has yielded only a handful of poems about traffic safety,=20 airports and domestic abuse. The deadline has been extended twice now, from=20 December to January to April. "Queens is the forgotten borough," said Mr. Sirowitz, a little wistfully. It is not that Queens lacks poets. There have been two poet laureates since=20 the former borough president, Claire Shulman, borrowed the title, with its=20 wild civic aspirations, from Brooklyn. But Brooklyn has been awash in would-be laureates ever since Walt Whitman=20 walked its streets. Countless poets have written odes to the towers and=20 tenements of Manhattan, and the Bronx and Staten Island have inspired their=20 share of verse, though none of these boroughs bestow laureate crowns. The muse has been less kind to Queens. In "Poems of New York," an anthology=20 published by Everyman's Library in 2002, there are dozens of poems about=20 the other four boroughs. Not one poem is set in Queens. Even the borough's vast population of immigrants has not been able to=20 rescue it for poetry. In "Bridge and Tunnel," Sarah Jones's current=20 Off-Broadway play, she impersonates a series of immigrants performing at a=20 poetry slam in south Queens. But the real poets of Queens are more like Mu=20 Xin, a 78-year-old Chinese exile who moved here after being imprisoned=20 during the Cultural Revolution. He does not write, or even speak, English.=20 And he has never written a word about Queens. It should be said that the position of poet laureate is not necessarily an=20 exalted one. Few Queens residents seem to know it exists, and it comes with=20 no salary or office space. So far, nine would-be laureates have submitted work, with titles like=20 "Christmas Week Depression," "Domestic Violence," and "I Read My Poems to=20 My Dog." One poem, titled simply "Queens," includes the lines: "There are=20 five colleges/Traveling is easier/Living near two airports." Another is=20 about traffic deaths on Queens Boulevard: "Traffic lights heretofore=20 largely ignored/Receive more respect from jaywalkers." After receiving his title from Mrs. Shulman in 2000, Mr. Sirowitz, now 55,=20 spent three years giving readings throughout the city and even touring the=20 country. He has lived in the borough for 25 years, and can lose patience with=20 outsiders' snotty views of it. One prose poem, titled "In Defense of=20 Queens," ends like this: "So listen up you people of Manhattan. You need us to keep your streets less crowded. We don't need you."' But much of the time Mr. Sirowitz prefers to flaunt his sense of regional=20 humiliation. Joey Ramone, a Queens poet in his own way, did something of=20 the kind in 1977 when he first belted out the words of "We're a Happy=20 Family": "Sitting here in Queens, eating refried beans ... No Christmas cards to send, Daddy likes men, Daddy's telling lies, baby's eating flies." There is, of course, another way to be a Queens poet laureate. Stephen=20 Stepanchev, who was the first to assume the title in 1997, is a retired=20 English professor who has published in The New Yorker and other respected=20 venues, and has produced 10 volumes of verse. His quietly lyrical poems are=20 often set in Queens parks, and dwell on the borough's harmonious ethnic=20 diversity. In one poem, "Sunday in the Queens Botanical Garden," he begins: "The Easter egg babushkas of the Slavs Talk in color with the turbans of Pakistan, Tulip red and yellow." But even Mr. Stepanchev, who lived and worked in Queens for four decades,=20 admits that his gentle devotion to the borough is not widely shared. New=20 York City may be a magnet for writers and artists, but few of them have=20 ever spent much time in Queens. Jack Kerouac lived in his mother's apartment on Cross Bay Boulevard for=20 about 10 years, and started writing "On the Road" there. The novelist Paul=20 Bowles was born in Queens. Walt Whitman taught school briefly in the=20 borough, and was fired because, as a Quaker, he would not beat his students. Simon and Garfunkel grew up in Queens, and their "59th Street Bridge Song"=20 is, arguably, set there. Stephen Dunn, who won the 2001 Pulitzer Prize for=20 poetry, lived in Forest Hills until he was in his 20's. He has never=20 written anything about it. "The literary life of Queens has been thin," said John Tytell, an English=20 professor at Queens College. Even as a setting, Queens has not done well. Probably its best-known=20 appearance is in F. Scott Fitzgerald's "The Great Gatsby," where Nick=20 Carraway gazes out the train window on his way out to West Egg and sees a=20 "valley of ashes," an industrial wasteland where a gigantic advertisement=20 for eyeglasses towers above the dust. Part of the problem is that Queens has always been something of a dumping=20 ground. Vast cemeteries were built there in the 19th century after the=20 other boroughs ran out of places to bury their dead. Later came the=20 factories, and the train tracks and highways to carry Manhattanites to Long=20 Island. As a blue-collar suburb in the 20th century, it was the kind of=20 place writers struggled to escape from, no matter how cheap the rent. In the last few decades, immigration has made Queens a far more=20 cosomopolitan place. There are at least 20 poets writing in Chinese in the=20 borough, said Philex Zhao, the executive director of the Chinese Writers=20 Association in Flushing. There are others writing verse in Marathi, Tamil,=20 Gujarathi and many other languages. Young hipsters crowd into the Indian=20 eateries of Jackson Heights and the Asian noodle shops of Flushing. The=20 borough's diversity has even inspired a collection, mostly prose, called=20 "Patchwork of Dreams," published in 1996 by a small Jackson Heights press. Yang Hao, a 41 year-old who lives in Bayside, is one of a few immigrant=20 poets who has written about Queens. One of his poems, "Long Island=20 Expressway," was published in The China Press, a Chinese-language=20 newspaper, three years ago. "You are ever taken with jamming," he writes of=20 the highway that runs through the borough translated by Ben Wang), "Filled=20 with burning thirst/ Ever being repaired/ Ever being damaged and jolted." Ishle Park, a young Korean American poet, is another voice of the new=20 Queens. She writes in English, and has produced a number of poems about her=20 native Flushing. But neither of them has any interest in being identified with the borough. "For me, Queens is like a little suburban nightmare," Ms. Park said. The poet laureate committee has not given up hope. "We will find someone,"=20 said David Cohen, the 94-year-old Queens College librarian in charge of the=20 search. Mr. Sirowitz, the last laureate, says he is sure there are more worthy=20 poets in Queens. He would like to help find one, but things have been going=20 well for him lately, and he is busy. He got married. He has a new book of=20 poetry coming out. And, he adds, with an uneasy glance at the floor, he is moving to Brooklyn. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:40:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jamie Gaughran-Perez Subject: Re: I.D'd In-Reply-To: <20040311152327.50685.qmail@web40812.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Agree to the comment of the Markson novels being such great writer's books. I don't want to tread on any of the ways people already enjoy them, but I just feel they invite the reader to read them in so many different ways simultaneously and enjoy the emergence/unfolding of those many levels of meaning/perspectives/modes of thought throughout there course -- something I'm sure many here enjoy about the work of so many of the writers present or talked about 'round these parts. That's my version of the popular if you liked ________ then you'll like _________ review, I guess. So if you dig that kinda thing, go pick up Reader's Block and go from there. And there are worse people to give $15 or so to than Dalkey Archive. Then go pick up Scalapino's Defoe -- no it's not really related to this discussion, but more people should read it, while my own thoughts about it have never cohered enough to write a separate email. Just read it. jamie.gp Kazim Ali wrote: >The lovely Reader's Block begins a sort of trilogy >with "This is Not a Novel" and the just released >"Vanishing Point." > >Completely breath-taking novels made up of single >strands--you never think they are going to be able to >cohere. And then they don't. Or do. Whatever. > >--- Renee Ashley wrote: > > >>Kevin, >>I second Reader's Block. I just finished it >>yesterday. I couldn't put it >>down. I think it's a real writers' book. >>Renee >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Kevin Hehir" >>To: >>Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 10:07 AM >>Subject: Re: [POETICS] I.D'd >> >> >> >> >>>for a catalogue of literary suicides I'd recommend >>> >>> >>David Markson's 1996 >> >> >>>novel Reader's Block. >>> >>>I'd recommend it anyway as it is fantastic! >>> >>>I actually read it at the same time as I read >>> >>> >>Mathew's 20 Lines a Day >> >> >>>while I was trying to finish my MPhil. >>> >>>Reader's Block is a great book! >>> >>>later, >>>kevin >>> >>>-- >>>--------------------------- >>> http://paulmartintime.ca/ >>> >>> > > >===== >==== > >WAR IS OVER > >(if you want it) > >(e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster >http://search.yahoo.com > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:07:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Renee Ashley Subject: Re: novels (was I.D'd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jamie, I don't know Scalapino's Defoe at all. Could you tell us more about it? Thanks, Renee ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:05:59 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anselm Hollo Subject: slander MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/19/2004 1:10:51, kirby olson writes: << He (Allen Ginsberg) set up the school in order to prey on kids. >> Kirby, you should be ashamed of yourself. And so should Mr. Noodle. Such unsubstantiated claims / quotes are actionable. Be forewarned. Anselm Hollo Professor Writing and Poetics Naropa University Boulder Colorado U.S.A ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 02:00:45 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ela kotkowska Subject: the colorful world of the protozoa In-Reply-To: <200403190306.i2J364T1016904@merle.it.northwestern.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit tangentially & for no reason :: the beauty of unicellular organisms as seen by Piort Rotkiewicz: http://www.pirx.com/droplet/index.shtml (see the gallery. i found the glossary equally fascinating.) * ela http://incertainplume.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 03:12:43 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Slander... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Forwarded Message----- From: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sent: Mar 19, 2004 3:10 AM To: poetics@listserv.buffalo.com Subject: Slander... Anselm Hollo needs a lawyer you can't slander the dead.. I'll repeat again..I thot Allen G was creepy.. he gave me the creeps.. & i'll repeat again a con versation i heard some 30 yrs ago.. Allen to Bob C "I'm starting a po program at Naropa so i can sleep with the students" so what...it was prob. the least shocking words sd that nite.. Anselm Hollo should leave the magic kingdom & visit America where we have free speech.. drnooooooodle... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:25:55 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Noted, but Sadly Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm happy to see the world-wide attention that Cid is now getting, but find it all too much too late. He could have really used that spread in the New York Times and all of those other papers to promote his work and to better his financial situation. He hungered after this kind of publicity and even considered trying to get his last New Directions book reviewed by Oprah Winfrey. Can you imagine that? He was convinced that Oprah would love Nothing Doing and that this would be his big break! Why does America have it all bass-ackwards when it comes to its poets? Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:04:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Fat Dumb Buddhists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those of you who contemplate beating up on fat, pacifistic Buddhas, let me offer this piece to guide you on the way to enlightenment. http://home.flash.net/~unlikely/meatykoansof.html Vernon http://vernonfrazer.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:20:33 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Looking for sources/info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All- I am working on a translation of Saadi's The Gulistan-13th century foundational text of Persian literature-and I am looking for articles/info dealing with mixed genre writing. The Gulistan combines prose and poetry-and often rhymed prose, at that-in ways that Saadi is generally recognized as originating. I am interested in articles that deal with the subject from a historical perspective, as well as contemporary theoretical articles, as well as anything in between. Thanks- Richard _____ Richard Newman Associate Professor, English Chair, International Studies Committee Nassau Community College One Education Drive Garden City, NY 11530 O: (516) 572-7612 F: (516) 572-8134 newmanr@ncc.edu www.ncc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:43:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: The March Project, in progress Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hi all, after a daily emailed correspondence with the poet Gina Myers for the month of February, I wanted to do something different in March. At first the plan was to lose all constraints, and just write something each night before bed. But then my mom took ill, and the only thing on my mind each night was her. As I write the pieces directly into the blog, look at this archival link to see the first 18 pieces (reading from bottom up): http://themarchproject.blogspot.com/2004_03_01_themarchproject_archive.html and then each succeeding morning, visit: http://themarchproject.blogspot.com/ as ever, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcity.blog-city.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:36:12 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Bechtel Subject: Americans Enjoy Their Food with More Extinction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Americans Enjoy Their Food with More Extinction By Gerard Levy Staff Writer WASHINGTON - Astronomers completed the transplant last night, waiting for millions of tons of Earth to ply John Fairfax from life. Mr. Fairfax will now be southern Vietnam's first work virus. Although he can go home from the hospital, John will need new pumps installed by Wednesday, a former Air Force intelligence analyst said, while working on the central machine that feeds and sustains the new organs. Fairfax's own biological heart has was lost in a collision two years ago, when a compressor forced the southern Vietnamese government to anxiously complicate the situation with promises of failure. The benefits of going home for two minutes will allow scientists to master other patients. The right sickness can be enough to allow technology to progress at least once a year. Using a small telescope and a nine day vacation, medical practitioners were able to destroy not only him, but his wife, younger stepchildren and still have funds left to further improve the machine. A checkup showed an irregularity on high priority status, and a function where a kid's plaster cast and misplaced outpatients led the head surgeon to meet with his friends at the inn. A few boulders in the naked eye would know if the whole sky or the next two miles would save his life, or purchase the Yucatan peninsula for the price of a million chickens. To make the blood easier to use, a suitcase six miles wide is employed, which is also helpful in spray painting graffiti on a donor heart, which research indicates could encourage it to beat. [Brent Bechtel] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:54:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Edmond Jabes Resources MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jabes saved my life, so I'm happy to see his name brought up. Even though I can't read him anymore, I still respect him and his work enormously. It's his transformation, from someone else to himself, that's most important. When I found Jabes, writing became possible again. I washed my hands, and haven't stopped writing since. I told a would-be poet friend, "You've got to read this guy." He didn't, and so remained a would-be poet. Read Jabes and weep for joy, as here's a Jew who sees through walls. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pierre Joris" To: Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:22 PM Subject: Re: Edmond Jabes Resources > A good way in are his "Dialogues with Marcel Cohen" published as > > _From the Desert to the Book_ Station Hill Press, Barrytown, N.Y., > spring 1989. Translated by yours truly -- though I am not certain if > the book is still in print. > > Pierre > > On Mar 18, 2004, at 9:15 PM, furniture_ press wrote: > > > besides blanchot, any other good [re]sources concerning my man edmond > > jabes? at our library (University of Maryland) I'm not coming up with > > too much. I'd like to have some alternate sources because I'm planning > > on reviving the guy. > > > > He's the man. > > > > Thanks for yr help. Much appreciated. > > > > Chris > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net > > Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for > > just US$9.95 per year! > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > In philosophical terms, human liberty is the basic question of art. -- > Joseph Beuys > ___________________________________________________________ > Pierre Joris > 6 Madison Place > Albany NY 12202 > h: 518 426 0433 > c: 518 225 7123 > o: 518 442 40 85 > email: joris@albany.edu > http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ > ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:37:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: ** Boog City Wants Yr Essays on Poetry ** MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hi all, a lil snafu has caused the april issue of boog city to have a nice big hole, which we'd like filled by an essay on poetry or poetry in new york city that will appeal to a poet and nonpoet audience. Please backchannel to editor@boogcity.com if you have something like this already extant or if you would be willing to attempt to write something like this. thanks in advance. as ever, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 www.boogcity.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:38:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: One year later, Iraq - Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable (In case you are not in the web loop. I find this site as transparent at it gets - but maybe others have additional suggestions??) Baghdad Burning ... I'll meet you 'round the bend my friend, where hearts can heal and soul= s can mend... Friday, March 19, 2004 =A0 Explosions... The explosion two days ago was a colossal one. Our area isn't very close to the area that got bombed, but we heard it loud and clear. It was one of several explosions during this last week=8A but it was the biggest. The momen= t it happened, E. and I started trying to guess where the noise was coming from. It has become a sort of morbid game. Al-Jazeera almost instantly began covering the explosion and we found out that E. was right- it was in Karada (I get the direction wrong 90% of the time and E. chauvinistically assures me that a warped sense of direction is quite common to most females). A hotel in the middle of a residential area was bombed and the stories vary in a strange sort of way. People in the are= a claim they heard the hissing of a rocket and then an explosion. Others say that it was an instant explosion. One news network is claiming that 32 bodies have been taken out of the rubble=8A another mentioned 17 and the Iraq= i police are saying that only 6 were found. Reports on the nationalities of the deceased also vary- the Iraqi police are claiming all the residents of the hotel were Iraqi and the Americans are saying that there were some Americans and Brits among the dead. Who to believe? Last Saturday and Sunday there were demonstrations in Baghdad. Students weren't allowed into Baghdad University because the university guards (ironically appointed by the Americans) wouldn't let anyone in. They are part of Sistani's gang and since Sistani's followers have diligently been objecting the TAL document signed by the Puppet Council, the guards decided that college would be closed for a couple of days. The students had to watc= h the dean of the engineering college beg to be let in, and refused. I found out about the demonstrations because I was supposed to have a job interview on Saturday and my potential employers called me postponing it until further notice because their guards- avid Sistani fans- had decided t= o take the day off to join the demonstration objecting the TAL. Sistani's followers would not be out protesting the transitional law document if they didn't have explicit directions from him- so Mustansiryia University (another major university in Baghdad) is full of student protests because the dean of the college of science requested that after the arba'een (40th day after the death of Imam Al-Hussein), the students take down the black flags and pictures of Al-Sadr and Sistani. The more conservative Shi'a students immediately took offence and decided that they wouldn't attend classes until the dean was fired. In retaliation, Sunn= i students decided they would organize a *protest* to the strike organized by the Shi'a students=8A We also heard that one of the assistant deans of the college of engineering in Baghdad University was assassinated recently. It's terrible news and the subject has been on my mind a lot lately. I don't know why no one focuses o= n this topic in the news. It's like Iraq is suffering from intellectual hemorrhaging. Professors and scientists are being assassinated right and left- decent intelligent people who are necessary for the future of Iraq. Other scientists are being detained by the Americans and questioned about- of all things- Al-Qaeda. The stories they tell after being let go are incredible. Most of the scientists are college professors and have dedicated their lives to teachin= g and research. Many are detained only because they specialize in a certain field, like heredity, for example. One man who was recently let go told about the ridiculous interrogation that lasted 3 days and involved CIA and military police. They showed him picture after picture of his family, confiscated from the family home during a raid, and kept pointing at his tw= o teenage sons and their friends and asking, "Aren't they a part of Al-Qaeda?!" And it doesn't stop with the scientists. Doctors are also being assassinate= d by some mysterious group. It started during the summer and has been continuing since then. Iraq has some of the finest doctors in the region. Since June, we've heard of at least 15 who were killed in cold blood. The stories are similar- a car pulls up to the clinic or office, a group of men in black step down and the doctor is gunned down- sometimes in front of the patients and sometimes all alone, after hours. One doctor was shot brutally in his house, in front of his family. There was a rumor that Badir's Brigad= e (the SCIRI militia led by Al-Hakeem) had a list out of 72 doctors that had to be killed for one reason or another. They include Sunni, Shi'a and Christian doctors.=20 Scientists, professors and doctors who aren't detained or assassinated all seem to be looking for a way out. It seems like everyone you talk to is keeping their eyes open for a job opportunity outside of the country. It depresses me. When I hear someone talking about how they intend to leave to Dubai or Lebanon or London, I want to beg them to stay=8A a part of me wants to scream, "But we need you here! You belong here!" Another more rational part of me knows that some of them have no options. Many have lost their jobs and don't know how to feed their families. Others just can't stand the constant worrying about their children or spouse. Many of the female doctor= s and scientists want to leave because it's no longer safe for women to work like before. For some, the option is becoming a housewife or leaving abroad to look for the security to work. Whatever the reason, the brains are slowly seeping out of Iraq. It's no longer a place for learning or studying or working=8A it's a place for wealth= y contractors looking to get wealthier, extremists, thieves (of all ranks and origins) and troops=8A=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:51:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Whalen on the Beach Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Tuesday 11:X:83 ...Yesterday I saw pieces of lines of poetry walking past inside my head. Now I think of the shore bird I watched for a few minutes yesterday. It is precisely formed & moves exactly as it must in order to feed at the very last receding wave. Complete. The same kind of finish & completion as in Japanese architecture. I was compelled to look and admire. There is life, there is the world.... from the journals of Philip Whalen, Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:03:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Looking for sources/info Comments: To: Richard Jeffrey Newman In-Reply-To: <20040319132037.LMNK29216.out009.verizon.net@Richard> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII You might want to look at the genre called Fu in China - this goes back to the Han dynasty, and is a mixture of rhymed verse and prose; Burton Watson has a book of translations (and commentary on the form) and there is also a fair amount of material in Classical Chinese Literature, An Anthology of Translations, eds. Minford and Lau. - Alan On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, Richard Jeffrey Newman wrote: > Hi All- > > > > I am working on a translation of Saadi's The Gulistan-13th century > foundational text of Persian literature-and I am looking for articles/info > dealing with mixed genre writing. The Gulistan combines prose and poetry-and > often rhymed prose, at that-in ways that Saadi is generally recognized as > originating. I am interested in articles that deal with the subject from a > historical perspective, as well as contemporary theoretical articles, as > well as anything in between. > > > > Thanks- > > > > Richard > > > > _____ > > Richard Newman > Associate Professor, English > Chair, International Studies Committee > Nassau Community College > One Education Drive > Garden City, NY 11530 > O: (516) 572-7612 > F: (516) 572-8134 > newmanr@ncc.edu > www.ncc.edu > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm finger sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:40:19 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: slander MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Actually, the dead cannot be libelled. -- Kirby Anselm Hollo wrote: > In a message dated 3/19/2004 1:10:51, kirby olson writes: > << He (Allen Ginsberg) set up the school in order to prey on kids. >> > > Kirby, you should be ashamed of yourself. And so should Mr. Noodle. > > Such unsubstantiated claims / quotes are actionable. Be forewarned. > > Anselm Hollo > Professor > Writing and Poetics > Naropa University > Boulder Colorado U.S.A ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:04:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU Subject: Re: a Marxian model of the social in poetry Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu In-Reply-To: <405A008D.4C082B1@delhi.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks Kirby for this gracious response. The charge that Kerry is a "Boston Brahmin" is, as you suggest below, specious and stupid -- and in any event, neither here nor there when considering Emerson. I would caution against relying on either brief web bios or older biographies when dealing with Emerson. As Gougeon has put it, “Some of the most deep-seated scholarly commonplaces regarding Emerson’s relationship to the important reforms of his day are based upon assumptions that have obtained credibility almost solely on the basis of historical reiteration rather than historical fact.” Charles W. Eliot's seminal biography, for instance, claims that “Emerson attended church on Sundays all his life with uncommon regularity.” This statement is a bald-faced lie though no doubt a few critics over the years have taken it as gospel truth. Richardson's 1995 bio is, in contrast, really impeccable. I don't personally know enough about Marx to say with care and precision how he and Emerson square. I'm better on, say, John Dewey and Adorno. But I have my hunches. My good friend John Parker and I (Parker, incidentally, is writing a book on Luther and Marx) have always talked of co-teaching a course on Marxism and Pragmatism, but alas he's at Harvard and I ain't. My book, I may as well say shamelessly, is priced at a fairly reasonable $27. That's one of the many nice things about publishing in U Alabama's Modern and Contemporary Poetics Series - they do affordable paperbacks. -m. Quoting Kirby Olson : > Mike, I don't know very much at all about Emerson. I'm doing research on > the > influence of Unitarians at Harvard for part of a larger project (I don't know > if it > will be completed) and that's why I am reading the Peter S. Field book The > Crisis of > the Standing Order. I think I read The essay on Self-Reliance by Emerson, > but don't > know much else. I valued your paragraph below -- this is the sort of meat I > was > asking for. I am actually pretty harmless, honestly. > > As for Kerry, I thought that he went to Yale, and was raised as a Catholic. > He's > Irish. So, he doesn't seem to me to fit this conversation, but I am also > interested > in how he might. > > Edwards clearly has stated that he is a big fan of the arts. Kerry, as with > most > things, is winning by keeping his head down and trying to appeal to > everybody. > > I don't know much about him or his background aside from a few demographic > details. > Could he be said to in any sense be a Boston Brahmin? The Brahmins, > according to > the Field book, came out of the old Congregational background, and slowly > turned > toward the arts rather than to theology as a source of power. When they > effectively > take over Harvard with the election of Henry Ware as Hollis Professor, > Harvard > changes over within fifteen years to an almost completely secular > institution, and > begins to produce literary people, rather than ministers. > > "The real revolution in the Brahmin transformation of Harvard, as well as in > Boston's churches, was their conscious movement from strictly theological > concerns > toward literary, high-cultural preoccupations" (125-126). > > This isn't an area or a period about which I know very much. But it sounds > to me as > if Emerson's turn away from the church is part of the very movement that > Field is > painting. Peter Quartermain alluded to Emerson's removal from HArvard in a > backchannel post a few months back. I've been mired most of my life in > minor > questions to do with surrealism. I'm only now really trying to understand > some of > the conflicts in American intellectual life. So your post was a big part of > the > puzzle for me. Unfortunately I'm rather isolated and am stumbling through a > lot of > this. > > The only time I get very testy is when I run into what I consider to be too > little > willingness to think through a whole tangle of problems and to try to > forestall > conversation. I want to read your book, but am too dumb in this area to > review it, > so will have to wait til the price goes down. I wish you'd spell out more > about the > link as you see it between Marx and Emerson, but maybe you've done that in > your > book, and don't want to deal with it any further here. I'd like to know how > you > think they go together, and ways they might not. I'm also interested to know > how > Emerson supported himself if he dropped out of the ministry and also wasn't > working > at Harvard. I seem to remember that he had a large enough estate that he was > able > to help out Thoreau. But I can do this research myself by finding a quick > biography > somewhere on the web or I can get the biographies you mention below. I only > want a > thumbnail sketch though because I am actually researching another area and > don't > have time to read large things not having directly to do with the topics of > urbanism > that I am trying to understand. I hope your book does well. Academic books > are > doing less and less well, it seems. Perhaps at least this exchange has > allowed you > to advertize your book, and maybe someone on the board will review it for > you. This > happened to me on my Corso book! > > -- Kirby > > mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU wrote: > > > Kirby, I've caught just enough of your schtik on this List to know that I > don't > > want to get into a drawn out argument with you. But I did want to briefly > > respond to what I read as a trite "guilt by association and implication" > spin > > at the beginning of your post: > > > > "The posts between Mike Magee and Louis Cabri were interesting in that > Emerson > > surfaced. I happen to be reading Peter S. Field's book The Crisis of the > > Standing Order: Clerical Intellectuals and Cultural Authority in > Massachusetts, > > 1780-1833 (U of Massachusetts Press, 1998). In it Fields traces the > mutation > > of Congregationalist churches into Unitarian associations. In the fifty > year > > period that Fields is working within he also notes the rapid transition > from > > fiery ministry to cultural authority. The turn from God, to poetry and > other > > arts, as a source of standing in the community. The wealthy bought and > paid > > for literary ministers who could entertain them with high wit, so that the > > literary ministers would in turn tell them it was ok in a religious sense > to be > > rich, so long as they were moral, too. The two groups exchanged long > dinners, > > and toasted one another. So in this sense the arts came to also be a > buttress > > to the wealth of the great families whose children attended Harvard in that > it > > showed that they deserved their place through the production of geniuses. > > Emerson's father was a minister in one of the most important churches in > > Boston." > > > > Nevermind that the "turn from God" as it relates to class is infinitely > more > > complex than the above suggests -- I'll have to wait till I read Field's > book > > to know whether he's represented acurately here. My point is simply that > what > > you seem to be implying about Emerson's own trajectory vis a vis his father > and > > Unitarianism is dead wrong. For starters, Emerson himself leaves the > ministry > > in 1832 over a theological dispute. He is also banned from Harvard after > > delivering his "Divinity School Address" (1837), a ban which remains in > place > > until 1872. During this time he throws himself headlong into abolitionism > and, > > yes, does some of the most important thinking/writing ever on the > relationship > > between the social and the aesthetic. > > > > My suspicion is that your wanting to talk about "Boston Brahmins" has more > to do > > with some agenda involving John Kerry than it does Emerson. So be it. But > I > > would encourage you and anyone else on this list interested in the back & > forth > > between Louis and I to check out both Robert Richardson's incredibly well > > researched and written biography "Emerson: The Mind on Fire" as well as > Len > > Gougeon's "Virtue's Hero: Emerson, Anti-Slavery and Reform." Emerson, we > know, > > read Marx's article "Forced Emigration" in 1853 and it informed the section > of > > _English Traits_ called "Wealth." Obviously this is a very comlicated > topic -- > > Emerson and Marx are by no means identical in any facet of their thought. > In > > my discussion w/ Louis I was only trying to talk briefly about the concept > of > > "symbolic action" and it's origins in Emerson's anti-slavery writings. My > own > > book, "Emancipating Pragmatism: Emerson, Jazz and Experimental Writing" > will be > > out from U Alabama in a couple weeks. > > > > Peace, > > > > -m. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:10:54 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: a very good book to read re marxism and poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable David-Baptiste asked me to forward this note from him since his computer access is shaky. He noted in another note he sent to me that there are statues of MAyakovsky all over the Soviet Union because of a line from Stalin. He also notes that Mayakovsky committed suicide, so I suppose there is one more to add to the list. Chirot says that he was suicided by the state. But I think I understood that he committed suicide over despair over which way the revolution was going (to hell). He felt bad that he had spent so much time making it happen. In a similar way I feel bad that in many ways I helped to support Beat poets and writers for so long. I think that particular revolution stank because of its anti-intellectualism. I liked Ginsberg personally, and thought he could be charming, but at Naropa it seemed that all he did was chase after young men. When Harry Nudel mentioned that he (Ginsberg) himself had said that he had set up the school in order to bag kids, it immediately made sense to me. The first amendment in this country guarantees the right of discussion to everyone. Libel is extremely difficult to prove, especially for famous people. It's impossible for dead people. You can say anything you want about the dead. This is basic to libel law, and to American freedom. Ginsberg is responsible for the deaths of at least three of my high school friends because one night watching Dick Cavett he spoke about LSD and its wondrous effects. We got some, tripped, and two of them went nuts. One hanged himself and the other drove his motorcycle through a billboard. The third one is still a little goofy -- walks around my home town muttering to himself. The fourth of that gang is writing this note. I came to hate the revolutionary left quite early on, and have more or less hated it ever since. Of course we are responsible -- we were 16 -- and should have known better. But it sounded so great! Just like communism! Sounds great! The very idea that you can try to stop people from talking about them is what they seem to live for -- the total control of perception. But Ginsberg wasn't the saint that he apparently thought he was. He was a nutcase and a fink, even if he was also a genius. Famous people who have had a lot of attention such as Trungpa and Ginsberg can suck a lot of people down into their Vortex. If you can't say that you think that they were horrible, and can only say that they were saints, then you leave a lot of other people open to being destroyed by them. Naropa has had a lot of horrible things go on there. Anyone who values their mental hygiene should step lightly in that place, as its karma is sick. I enjoyed my two summers at Naropa, but I found it hard to believe, too. I love Corso's poetry, and thank Ginsberg for what he did for Corso in terms of keeping him alive. I also think that Ginsberg was charming and generous to many many other people. I think we should also be free to discuss his wicked side (NAMBLA), as well as other aspects of the man. It's a matter of mental hygiene. There are worse places than Naropa (I'd probably go there again if I was a young poet again in order to study with Anselm -- even though he too sometimes strikes me as well, he's alive, so I'm not going to say anything except that I think he's overly loyal to his friends). The Soviet Union was a worse place for poets than Naropa. But here is brilliant David Chirot recommending its poet Mayakovsky's theory of Marxist poetry -- amuse-toi bien! -- Kirby David-Baptiste Chirot wrote: > Dear Kirby: > > poetics won't accept my posts due to format-- > so sending this direct to you- > a superb book to read regarding marxism and poetry is > HOW ARE VERSES MADE > by V. Mayakovsky (you cd mention this to list for me if you like--) > i have on website also--at poetics--dave chirot chapbook--from ninth > lab > has a lot to do with mayakovsky, sectionsi nterwoevn into the > story/poem of quotes from him > and at end reflections on the state poet suicided by the state-- > i appreciate your wanting to have open ended discussions--though one > must always be aware of one's parts of mind that are as it were > closed--made up,so to speak--(as in making up on'es mind, not as in > making up things!)-- > what i wanted to ask you--in one post you wrote of your coming out of > study of french literature--that really interets me as having for many > decades been (and am right now)-(reading two bios of Celine, some of > his works in french on web, TALKING POETICS AT NAROPA--Hawthorne's > AMERICAN NOTEBOOKS ( a great persoanl favorite--)--checkingout the new > english language editons of Rimbaud--and reading Burrough's QUEER > again--and am translating from the french a piece by the great italian > poet Ungaretti on Lautreamont-- > i gather your especial interest is in surrealism? > personally i rather am dubious about the influence of Lutheranism per > se as being as all pervasive perhaps as you do--more really Puritanism > in this country--the whole PC aspect is straight out of Puritanism, as > i think Language poetry is very much-- > a lotof the sturggle in american poetry is between formalisms--and the > other traditon, out of emerson through pound, williams, olson--that > is, the aspects which are related to nature, to writing as a kind of > hieroglypic language--visual/sound/performative-- > Poe in a sense has both--esp in ARTHUR PYM-- > also read an excellent study called THE EMERGENCE OF SOCIAL SPACE > Rimbaud the Paris Commune by Krisitn Ross- > i have essay re Rimbaud in CRAYON issue 3--currently writing some re > mail art, visual poetry and rubBEings--(what is often called > frottage--) > i wd be very interested to hear more about your ineterst in the > french--but only when and if you have time! s you are very busy i can > tell! > all best, davdi-baptiste > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page =96 > FREE download! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:24:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: so what is going on here with this gay marriage? In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://transdada.blogspot.com/ so what is going on here with this gay marriage? is this really about=20 being able to get married? how does queerness relate to the=20 commodification factor, hetronormative hegemony? this is not about the weddings . . . . I repeat, this is not about=20 being able to get married!!! and it is!!!! the weddings have become the spark of major flash points world wide,=20= and are symtomatic of a variety of problems. first the wedding . . . if you want to get married and buy into the=20 hegemony, fine . . . if one of the motivating factors for getting=20 married is to get all the benefits of the power structure, fine . . . .=20= but what if you do not want to buy into that system? why should only=20 those that get married have a 1000 privileges . . . . so, then the=20 problem is one of hoarding power by patriarchal privilege as an act of=20= ownership . . . . then the broader question is one of social critique=20= . . . . why do only those who get married have those privileges? I=20 think the answer is fairly obvious, in a hetro-hierarchy of power, and=20= any act wanting to share heterosexual privilege over another type of=20 relationship is seen as a threat to to power structure. the problem is, queers are being limited and not denied the opportunity=20= to buy into that system , not matter what one thinks of it. if one=20 wants to go to disneyland, fine . . . everyone should be able to enter=20= the land of oz, who wants to. unequal rights is unequal rights... separate but equal is separate but=20= unequal... what has happened is the power elite, the hetronormative command and=20 control are feeling threaten and in turn are thrusting their ideal of a=20= perfect identity forward, as a legal and moral right; . . . this in=20 turn casts those not that into the *other space.* one that does not=20 deserve rights, one that is looked upon as morally wrong, and one that=20= is a bad influence to the majority, a super situated identity forced to=20= come forth as that, no longer able to hide in the closet this has caused identity politics to raise its head the *us* is right=20 and you are you and you are wrong, because you are not us. maybe it is=20= time to stop living as second class citizen world wide... to stand up=20 and fight... this is where the flash points come in .. the assertion of one identity=20= over other, or one identity demanding the privileges of another... here are some areas of concern beyond just the fact that marriage is=20 being held as a privileged site for heterosexuals. 1. state after state passing or attempting to pass amendments to ban=20 gay marriages. the fact that there are laws written to limit social=20 movement is a red flag. now there is a push an amendment to the=20 constitution to be added on a national level... if the meer fact that=20 lawmakers are proposing to change the constitution does not worry you .=20= . . . think again!! . . . it is a major problem . . . . this will=20 institute second class citizenry. where now, for the most part, it is=20 just group think, with some laws to protect the minority from the=20 majority group think.. 2. states, and counties are cutting backs rights, privileges and=20 protections of queer adults and children. (orange country, CA, does not=20= want to offer equal rights protection to trans youth) 3. hate crimes have risen 24% in the last 3 months . . . . what will it=20= be like as laws are passed, creating an institutional second class=20 group? what will happen as more and more moralizing religious bigots=20 spill their hate speech on to the world trying to create a solid ground=20= . . . . more license to act out their rage to subdue those that=20 threaten an already mythological power. 4. queer folkz are losing their jobs simply because they are queer, as=20= the queer priest did /is. a queer reporter and a photographer, recently=20= married, were taken off an assignment to cover the *GAY WEDDINGs*=20 simply because the paper thought there was a conflict of interest . . .=20= which would not happen to a straight person . . . . add to that a=20 queer couple did not qualify for a home loan because they where not=20 considered a couple... 5. it has been ruled federal employes can lose their job simply for=20 being gay. 6. folks have been arrested for marrying queer folks. 7. there is a blindness to HIV because it is connected to queers even=20 though world wide, more heterosexuals have HIV then queers 8. increased censorship of queer media.... 9. cutting back on gay adoptions. this is just some of the problems that are happening world wide . . .. now is the time to stand up and take the next step in queer civil=20 rights! now is the time to take a stance for human civil rights - includeing=20= everyone...!!! transdada poetics, time, body disruption and marginally queer solutions today @ http://transdada.blogspot.com/ Friday, March 19, 2004 Quebec=A0Court Rules Gays Can Marry Watertown (MA) pols vote against gay marriage ban Bid to hold 2nd vote on gay marriage ban fails- Atlanta J DEBATE in journalism over the Chronicle's decision to pull a City Hall=20= reporter Savannah Says No To Gay Marriage Amendment Eight gay couples refused marriage licenses in Orlando Legal rift between Ore., counties leaves same-sex couples in limbo Gay activists rally for lesbian journalists S.F. City Attorney to Calif. Supreme Court: Mayor had Authority to=20 Marry Gays Gay marriage ban vote delayed 30 more gay weddings planned in New Paltz Newsom defends gay marriages Tenn. county reverses call to ban homosexuals and more.. Thursday, March 18, 2004 @ http://transdada.blogspot.com/ San Francisco asked justices to resume gay marriages Reports of anti-gay violence increase Scalia refuses to recuse himself from case involving Cheney #PALM SPRINGS, Calif. - City Council unanimously condemning federal=20 amendment declaring marriage is between a man and a woman. Lawmaker seeks to impeach judge on homophobia ruling Gay NY 'weddings' held without a hitch Spain Will Legalise Gay 'Marriages' - Zapatero UD students demonstrate for gay marriage HUTCHINSON: Rapper 50 Cent's Gay Problem and more @ http://transdada.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:59:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: 9/11 was the same as any other day MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the sun came up some people died the sun went down ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:07:11 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Edmond Jabes Resources In-Reply-To: <002f01c40dca$7a4ae4e0$f9fdfc83@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joel: Any writing in particular that turned you around? On Friday, March 19, 2004, at 09:54 AM, Joel Weishaus wrote: > Jabes saved my life, so I'm happy to see his name brought up. Even > though I > can't read him anymore, I still respect him and his work enormously. > It's > his transformation, from someone else to himself, that's most > important. > When I found Jabes, writing became possible again. I washed my hands, > and > haven't stopped writing since. I told a would-be poet friend, "You've > got to > read this guy." He didn't, and so remained a would-be poet. Read Jabes > and > weep for joy, as here's a Jew who sees through walls. > > -Joel > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:12:15 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Re: George Evans "unknown person" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Thanks to Anselm Hollo for confirming what I'd suspected from Maria Damon's post- that the "unknown person" at Naropa was George Evans. George is another gift from my relationship with Cid Corman. It was Cid who pointed me to Evans' SUDDEN DREAMS, a book I still pick up in used bookstores to share with friends & new readers. I think he's from Pittsburgh, & living in San Francisco(?) >From: Anselm Hollo >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: "unknown person" >Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 00:58:14 EST > >Maria Damon: << I saw Cid at Naropa in ... 1995? He read us some amazing >Viet Nam War poetry/prose by an unknown person --US man >> > >"unknown person" was and still is GEORGE EVANS, extraordinary poet and >prose >writer -- one of the living best, author of SUDDEN DREAMS: NEW AND SELECTED >POEMS, Coffee House Press 1991, and THE NEW WORLD, Curbstone Press 2002. >Also >check out Jacket (web) archive for his essay on Walt Whitman and growing up >in >Philly. George also edited a volume of Corman / Olson correspondence, >don't >know if it's in print again. > >Anselm Hollo _________________________________________________________________ All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by ESPN. http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:16:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: slander MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Kirby Olson, how DARE you say that about Ginsberg!!!!!!! to negate a man's ENTIRE life like that! to devalue his importance, and to malign the hard work he did! to brand him a sexual predator makes me question you and what your own cock must have on its mind. every straight man i've ever met who points to gay men as being insatiable sex addicts who will go to any means to get cock is almost always a straight guy who ain't gettin' any unless he's payin'. Louise Gluck is another who took shots at Ginsberg when i heard her read some years ago. she called him "a mere footnote in the history of poetry." as though she's ever written a single outstanding thing which changed the way we read poetry! she's out of her fucking mind! and so are you! CAConrad "I believe in compulsory cannibalism. If people were forced to eat what they killed there would be no more war." --Abbie Hoffman "This is a good world... And war shall fail." --Kenneth Patchen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:34:10 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: slander In-Reply-To: <1233344D.1B044FEA.01F36A84@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I largely agree, but let me try to be more temperate. I knew Allen, and I've known a lot of other poets. Most of them, of whatever gender, like almost everyone else I've known, have been sexually active to the point of near indiscriminateness at some point or other in their lives. Few have founded writing programs to get laid--it seems like a lot of work for something that's not that difficult--tho some have done some of their mating within their work environment, it being where they spend most of their time, and this sometimes leads to abuses. The fact is, by the time he got involved with Naropa it had been a long time since Allen, with all his fame, had suffered from a lack of willing sexual partners. Notice that until now I haven't used the word predator, which I think is hard to justify if one is talking about uncoerced sex between those above the age of consent. Mark At 05:16 PM 3/19/2004 -0500, Craig Allen Conrad wrote: >Kirby Olson, how DARE you say that about Ginsberg!!!!!!! > >to negate a man's ENTIRE life like that! > >to devalue his importance, and to malign the hard work he did! > >to brand him a sexual predator makes me question you and what >your own cock must have on its mind. > >every straight man i've ever met who points to gay men as being >insatiable sex addicts who will go to any means to get cock is >almost always a straight guy who ain't gettin' any unless he's payin'. > >Louise Gluck is another who took shots at Ginsberg when i heard her >read some years ago. she called him "a mere footnote in the history >of poetry." as though she's ever written a single outstanding thing >which changed the way we read poetry! she's out of her fucking mind! >and so are you! > >CAConrad > >"I believe in compulsory cannibalism. >If people were forced to eat what they >killed there would be no more war." > --Abbie Hoffman > >"This is a good world... >And war shall fail." > --Kenneth Patchen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:35:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: slander Comments: To: Kirby Olson In-Reply-To: <405B3E93.299EB7EF@delhi.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, Kirby Olson wrote: > Actually, the dead cannot be libelled. > Sure they can! People say horrible things about them all the time, about how because they were the original and greatest psychedelic band to emerge from San Francisco, they are therefore directly responsible for the drug use and irresponsible lifestyles of the thousands who followed them around the country on tour.... Oh, not THAT Dead. Never miiiiiind. Emily Litella ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:02:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: slander MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark, thanks for making these points. They were what occurred to me, but I was hoping someone who knew Ginsberg personally would make them. I'd like to say a little more about your last point, though. Any sexual relationship can be or become predatory, by a literal, non-legal definition. So can any non-sexual relationship. We have decided, as a society, to say that those who have reached the age of 18 are their own sexual responsibility (we can debate the age, but it's obvious we have to pick one). Yes, older people do sometimes emotionally manipulate younger people into bed. Sometimes, it happens the other way around. To call a 66-year-old man fucking an 18-year-old man "predatory," without specific evidence, does not help the 18-year-old. It takes away the adulthood our culture assures him is his; it removes from him the freedom of choice that is so essential for his education as a productive member of society. To disallow our children to pick older partners, even foolishly, is to block one of their most fundamental rights as adults. And at some age, we have to call our children adults. As far as the actionability of Kirby's and Harry's claims, well, hate to break it to you guys, but if Naropa can prove that your comments are both untrue and financially harm Naropa, Ginsberg can be 100 years dead and you can still be sued, although it won't be called "slander." See L. Ron Hubbard. That said, does anyone really care how Kirby and Harry feel about Naropa? Does anyone really think that it will harm Naropa in any way? Does anyone think it will hurt Ginsberg's sales? Does anyone think that if Ginsberg was reading this list, it would hurt so much as his *feelings?* Again, I didn't know the man, but I had the impression his skin was a little thicker than that. -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Weiss" To: Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 3:34 PM Subject: Re: slander > I largely agree, but let me try to be more temperate. I knew Allen, and > I've known a lot of other poets. Most of them, of whatever gender, like > almost everyone else I've known, have been sexually active to the point of > near indiscriminateness at some point or other in their lives. Few have > founded writing programs to get laid--it seems like a lot of work for > something that's not that difficult--tho some have done some of their > mating within their work environment, it being where they spend most of > their time, and this sometimes leads to abuses. > > The fact is, by the time he got involved with Naropa it had been a long > time since Allen, with all his fame, had suffered from a lack of willing > sexual partners. > > Notice that until now I haven't used the word predator, which I think is > hard to justify if one is talking about uncoerced sex between those above > the age of consent. > > Mark > > At 05:16 PM 3/19/2004 -0500, Craig Allen Conrad wrote: > >Kirby Olson, how DARE you say that about Ginsberg!!!!!!! > > > >to negate a man's ENTIRE life like that! > > > >to devalue his importance, and to malign the hard work he did! > > > >to brand him a sexual predator makes me question you and what > >your own cock must have on its mind. > > > >every straight man i've ever met who points to gay men as being > >insatiable sex addicts who will go to any means to get cock is > >almost always a straight guy who ain't gettin' any unless he's payin'. > > > >Louise Gluck is another who took shots at Ginsberg when i heard her > >read some years ago. she called him "a mere footnote in the history > >of poetry." as though she's ever written a single outstanding thing > >which changed the way we read poetry! she's out of her fucking mind! > >and so are you! > > > >CAConrad > > > >"I believe in compulsory cannibalism. > >If people were forced to eat what they > >killed there would be no more war." > > --Abbie Hoffman > > > >"This is a good world... > >And war shall fail." > > --Kenneth Patchen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:30:12 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: chicago post modern poetry calendar In-Reply-To: <01ba01c40e06$4f864a10$220110ac@UNLIKELYLAP> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetrycalendar.blogspot.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ sorry Buffalo listers, we have many had many new additions to the CPMPC please check it out Regards Ray ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:51:38 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Edmond Jabes Resources MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mIEKAL: It happened this way. I met a woman at the Helene Wurlitzer Foundation, in Taos, NM. Her name was Etta Blum. Etta's first book of poems, which was published sometime during the 1940s, received acclaim from some major critics. (William Carlos Williams asked her for a review copy, but she never wrote him back!) Soon afterwards, she married a Yiddish writer who was in the circle of I.B. Singer. Unlike Singer, he never became well-known. Etta stopped writing to raise the children (Unfortunately, this is not an unusual story.) Afterwards, she became a teacher in the NYC system. When I met her, she was in her early 70s, and had been writing again for a number of years, but never got much recognition again. When her time at the foundation was over, she moved to Santa Fe. I returned to Santa Fe, too, where Etta and I had some interesting discussions. The woman _lived_ literature. She died from cancer about a year later. After I moved to Albuquerque, I was looking through her archive, which is at the University of New Mexico. I was amazed at the people with whom she had been in contact. In one letter, someone--I forget who--wrote that she "should take a look at Edmund Jabes's 'The Book of Questions.'" I don't know whether she did. But I know that I did, and it changed my life. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "mIEKAL aND" To: Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 2:07 PM Subject: Re: Edmond Jabes Resources > Joel: Any writing in particular that turned you around? > > > On Friday, March 19, 2004, at 09:54 AM, Joel Weishaus wrote: > > > Jabes saved my life, so I'm happy to see his name brought up. Even > > though I > > can't read him anymore, I still respect him and his work enormously. > > It's > > his transformation, from someone else to himself, that's most > > important. > > When I found Jabes, writing became possible again. I washed my hands, > > and > > haven't stopped writing since. I told a would-be poet friend, "You've > > got to > > read this guy." He didn't, and so remained a would-be poet. Read Jabes > > and > > weep for joy, as here's a Jew who sees through walls. > > > > -Joel > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:02:57 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ela kotkowska Subject: Re: Edmond Jabes Resources In-Reply-To: <000d01c40e15$8124ef40$4efdfc83@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i don't know whether you meant to post it or send it to mIEKAL only, but this is the most beautiful thing i read on this list ... where can one find Etta Blum's writings? -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Joel Weishaus Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 6:52 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Edmond Jabes Resources mIEKAL: It happened this way. I met a woman at the Helene Wurlitzer Foundation, in Taos, NM. Her name was Etta Blum. Etta's first book of poems, which was published sometime during the 1940s, received acclaim from some major critics. (William Carlos Williams asked her for a review copy, but she never wrote him back!) Soon afterwards, she married a Yiddish writer who was in the circle of I.B. Singer. Unlike Singer, he never became well-known. Etta stopped writing to raise the children (Unfortunately, this is not an unusual story.) Afterwards, she became a teacher in the NYC system. When I met her, she was in her early 70s, and had been writing again for a number of years, but never got much recognition again. When her time at the foundation was over, she moved to Santa Fe. I returned to Santa Fe, too, where Etta and I had some interesting discussions. The woman _lived_ literature. She died from cancer about a year later. After I moved to Albuquerque, I was looking through her archive, which is at the University of New Mexico. I was amazed at the people with whom she had been in contact. In one letter, someone--I forget who--wrote that she "should take a look at Edmund Jabes's 'The Book of Questions.'" I don't know whether she did. But I know that I did, and it changed my life. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "mIEKAL aND" To: Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 2:07 PM Subject: Re: Edmond Jabes Resources > Joel: Any writing in particular that turned you around? > > > On Friday, March 19, 2004, at 09:54 AM, Joel Weishaus wrote: > > > Jabes saved my life, so I'm happy to see his name brought up. Even > > though I can't read him anymore, I still respect him and his work > > enormously. > > It's > > his transformation, from someone else to himself, that's most > > important. > > When I found Jabes, writing became possible again. I washed my > > hands, and haven't stopped writing since. I told a would-be poet > > friend, "You've got to read this guy." He didn't, and so remained a > > would-be poet. Read Jabes and weep for joy, as here's a Jew who sees > > through walls. > > > > -Joel > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:38:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JT Chan Subject: PoetrySz:demystifying mental illness. new issue out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The thirteenth issue of PoetrySz, an e-zine featuring the work of people with mental illness, is out. This issue features the work of Canadian poet Lisa Gordon. As well as poetry from Jill Chan, Steve Tills, Christopher Barnes, and Reed Altemus. Check it out at: http://www.poetrysz.net Submissions for subsequent issues are welcomed. Send 3-6 poems in the body of your e-mail to poetrysz@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:39:06 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Allegrezza Subject: a request (or an odd CFP) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i have an odd request. i am in the middle of putting together the next issue of _moria_, but i haven't received much interesting work from females (or other than male) poets to pick from. usually i have plently of work from women, but this time around things are different. did something in the current issue turn female readers away? i can't see what. moreover, i'm not really interested in counting up females vs males vs mixed genders, but i am troubled when i look at a magazine and see only males (or in the case of the forthcoming _moria_, only two females). my request is for experimental poets who are females to send something quickly. bill allegrezza www.moriapoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:58:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Edmond Jabes Resources In-Reply-To: <200403200103.i2K13FBX029945@merle.it.northwestern.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed A long interview with Jabes by Jason Weiss was published in Conjunctions I think it was IX, circa 1985, and reprinted iun Jason's book Writing at Risk (Iowa 1991). It's first-rate. It's news to me, too, that Jabes needs reviving. I didn't know his work had fallen from view. Mark ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:11:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Edmond Jabes Resources In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20040319175548.0361cea0@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII It's all over the house here, Blanchot as well. There's a nexus among Schwerner, Jabes, Celan, Akkadian/Sumerian/Assyrian texts. There's a problematic spatiality, nomadicism, ecology at work. Gematria of blurred numerologies. In some way my writing is within the nexus as well. I look for guidance. Alan On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, Mark Weiss wrote: > A long interview with Jabes by Jason Weiss was published in Conjunctions I > think it was IX, circa 1985, and reprinted iun Jason's book Writing at Risk > (Iowa 1991). It's first-rate. > > It's news to me, too, that Jabes needs reviving. I didn't know his work had > fallen from view. > > Mark > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm finger sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:21:10 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Slander/Libel... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think folks lost this thread.. for me it's not about sex or creepiness or what someone sd...30 yrs ago... it's about POWER..and its uses AND what happens when P.O.W.E.R. is threatened.....left/rite/left pretty much the same S.h.i.T.. drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 00:15:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: 10 poems from the chinese MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII 10 poems from the chinese 1 flows (of) flowers water rain restraint, conquering ripe (grain) new (grain) small stream the rivers the river the Luo (river) Wei (river) the Jing (Sheu river) (the) falling (leaning) the sea sealed 2 from Kun mountain (to the) Mong (mountain) mountain (and) cave (mountain) and valley (go to the) forest earth yellow :: heaven is black, earth is yellow (the) earth spirits of the earth] 3 the white reds (and) blues (painting) yellow :: heaven is black, earth is yellow predicted be covered (protect your faith) compared (to) a withered lacquered figured beautiful cloth reds (and) blues (painting) one hundred predicates) black yellow :: heaven is black, earth is yellow 4 clouds the sun fills the sun sets in the west mustard the stars the (business) affairs the stairs 5 homes home extremity (house-pole) 6 emanates out many humanity command the ancient swordsman man, population [the] superior man many of children (a) child (a) son (child) 7 the husband the wife soldiers (troops) making (one is) thinking linking (joining) (grave/marking post) 8 (of) sorrow, sadness is printed (sadness stains the silk) 9 the sun fills the moon fills a still (and) village the pillar skill of glutinous millet and millet (you will be) fortunate (to) as well as well 10 grep lake a/char >> zz grep sea a/char >> zz grep ocean a/char >> zz grep mountain a/char >> zz grep valley a/char >> zz grep forest a/char >> zz grep meadow a/char >> zz grep hill a/char >> zz grep earth a/char >> zz grep white a/char >> zz grep blue a/char >> zz grep yellow a/char >> zz grep red a/char >> zz grep black a/char >> zz grep cloud a/char >> zz grep sun a/char >> zz grep star a/char >> zz grep fog a/char >> zz grep mist a/char >> zz grep air a/char >> zz grep home a/char >> zz grep house a/char >> zz grep build a/char >> zz grep dwell a/char >> zz grep palace a/char >> zz grep farm a/char >> zz grep hut a/char >> zz grep man a/char >> zz grep woman a/char >> zz grep child a/char >> zz grep boy a/char >> zz grep infant a/char >> zz grep baby a/char >> zz grep girl a/char >> zz grep husband a/char >> zz grep wife a/char >> zz grep farmer a/char >> zz grep soldier a/char >> zz grep queen a/char >> zz grep king a/char >> zz grep sailor a/char >> zz grep student a/char >> zz grep teacher a/char >> zz grep foolish a/char >> zz grep wise a/char >> zz grep stupid a/char >> zz grep happy a/char >> zz grep lucky a/char >> zz grep unluckly a/char >> zz grep unhappy a/char >> zz grep sad a/char >> zz grep death a/char >> zz grep birth a/char >> zz grep dead a/char >> zz grep lost a/char >> zz grep sick a/char >> zz grep gone a/char >> zz grep ill a/char >> zz grep well a/char >> zz _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 03:43:26 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Summer School Meditation Wa Wa Blues Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Naropa Writing Pro..has anounced that the distinquished Po's Amiri Baraka & Bob Holman Will spend their week in the sun finding and naming the names of the 1,000's of Israeli's missing from the W.T.C. ashes "we were thinkin' of bringin' in O.J. but he's busy at a retreat" sd the Naropa spokesman or as it's known 'round here i'll sue U... drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:10:54 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cyrill Duneau Subject: the image Comments: To: "mayakovsky@yahoogroups.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit fallen pollen new soundoff hammered on pills & alcohol 9.00-16.00 h: experience vs. representation Connection Mode: Server OK Frame Rate:0.69 Frames/sec Bandwidth:16.63 KBits/sec Image Size: 320x240 Pixels Deleted parts will never be shown again. on the phone in the middle of the night to have strengthen those lengths mirror time be dangerous %40californiacompanion%2Ecom&amount=20%2E00&item_name=short- lived butterfly futility qpepejmzfbvvprhyekrddmgpecplxvvnmzeqlqrqtplkgvkmhbqkpyb no more and more dwarf porn people hate the United States of ignorance, neglect, and malicious abuse every day 1. Sample of my measures the life span Exclusive press preview. Press accreditation/event/objects necessary Sang-Froid commodities in support of imprisoned most preliminary of stages as "Al Jazeera," "boy" or "bitch." c) expository writing-based "deletion question" (Los Angeles, CA) (Jerusalem 91068, Israel) three-hour sessions split between a statue of elephant height in a strange sort of way deceiving harassed, arrested, abused and killed by U.S. troops * Names of those potentially involved dull it is to pause Optional Message: To rival companies i.e. 99 cents a "fascio littorio", the symbol of authority Mussolini Fascist regime whpczhjpmbeghkjvvefpuezuoocesnrqwguyqgnchtkpewmzarpwvqqjetqyihp They told me I was a liar," says Hassan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:39:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: Edmond Jabes Resources In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jab=E8s wrote a fascinating essay on Paul Celan which will come out in = my=20 translation early next year in _Celan:Selections_ (edited by me) in the "Poets for the=20 Millennium" series at U of Cal Press. The core resources for EJ are of course all of Rosmarie Waldrop's=20 translations, which constitute one of the major translation achievements in this country in=20= the last 25 years. Rosmarie also wrote a superb memoir of Jab=E8s called: _Lavish Absence Recalling and Rereading Edmond Jab=E8s_ published by Wesleyan UP. Pierre On Mar 19, 2004, at 9:11 PM, Alan Sondheim wrote: > It's all over the house here, Blanchot as well. There's a nexus among > Schwerner, Jabes, Celan, Akkadian/Sumerian/Assyrian texts. There's a > problematic spatiality, nomadicism, ecology at work. Gematria of=20 > blurred > numerologies. In some way my writing is within the nexus as well. I=20 > look > for guidance. Alan > > On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, Mark Weiss wrote: > >> A long interview with Jabes by Jason Weiss was published in=20 >> Conjunctions I >> think it was IX, circa 1985, and reprinted iun Jason's book Writing=20= >> at Risk >> (Iowa 1991). It's first-rate. >> >> It's news to me, too, that Jabes needs reviving. I didn't know his=20 >> work had >> fallen from view. >> >> Mark >> > > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/.nikuko > http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt > Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > finger sondheim@panix.com > > ___________________________________________________________ In philosophical terms, human liberty is the basic question of art. -- =20= Joseph Beuys ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place =09 Albany NY 12202 =09 h: 518 426 0433 =09 c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 =09= email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:13:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Re: Baseball poem In-Reply-To: <000001c407e1$df83a840$1c290e18@attbi.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hi haas, thanks for yr sub, but unfortunately i had to go another way. as ever, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcity.blog-city.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:06:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: Slander/Libel... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Harry, guess what, you're wrong about us losing the thread. (don't bother trying to deflect from your actions at this point) but you're right about the thread being about P.O.W.E.R. the POWER of the living to slander the dead! JUST EXACTLY what did you SAY when you heard this alleged conversation about cornering and snaring the young studs from poetry class? nothing! and WHY!? because A) it didn't happen. B) you're too much of a coward to saying ANYTHING about this until Ginsberg is long dead! your pathetic cowardice is the creepiest, frankly. and by the way, none of us need to be reminded of freedom of speech. THAT'S EXACTLY why the response to the brave Harry Nudel who wants to malign Ginsberg when he can no longer defend his long life of amazing accomplishments! you're like some grotesque gossip columnist who is bitter about not getting a movie role they wanted. and as soon as the celebrated lead dies, you go at their character, telling some invented tale you've told so many times you finally believe it yourself. you're right we do have freedom of speech, and yes it protects scum like you. Yours truly! CAConrad -------------------------- Harry Nudel wrote: From: Harry Nudel Subject: Slander/Libel... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I think folks lost this thread.. for me it's not about sex or creepiness or what someone sd...30 yrs ago... it's about POWER..and its uses AND what happens when P.O.W.E.R. is threatened.....left/rite/left pretty much the same S.h.i.T.. drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:14:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Re: Slander/Libel... In-Reply-To: <0556128D.578A712A.01F36A84@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hi c.a. and all, the last thing i ever thought i'd do on this list was defend nudel, but i'm guessing we all have the story of a friend of ours who Allen at least sexually harassed. My first summer at Naropa, at one of the hottub parties I missed, Bataan Faigao's house i think, a poet friend of mine, young, blonde, and thin, has a naked from the hot tub Ginsberg grab him by the ears and kiss him. And it was taken as a, "Oh, that's just Allen being Allen." Now if Andrew Schelling had done that to a female student it would mean a suspension for Schelling, leading to dismissal, and possible criminal charges, it wouldn't be just, "Oh, that's Andrew being Andrew." and now we get into what this all means--do we, for example, think less of MLK because he plagiarized his doctorate and purportedly ran around on Coretta. I'm of the view that a person's postivie political or artistic acts can be separated from their negative personal ones, but ultimately we can, and do, think lesser of them. as ever, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcity.blog-city.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:40:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: Slander/Libel... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit David, fine, but that's not my point. my point is that these stories wouldn't be discussed (especially on this list) if Ginsberg were still alive! and that Kirby Olson and Harry Nudel want us to buy this cocka-maymee idea that Ginsberg was such an uncontrollable pig that poetry had NOTHING to do with the amazing dedication he had for NAROPA. that's just fucking inexcusable! Lamont Steptoe has a poem about Ginsberg's sperm swimming in his stomach. but at least he wrote this when Ginsberg was alive. when big name straight guy poets get nookie (do you think that they don't?) is it as creepy to everyone? the creepy part that keeps coming up is bordering on homophobia. jealousy is so pathetic! and as i've said before, go ahead and say what you want. but i will respond, as i want. CAConrad ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:48:02 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Baseball poem In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit no problem- it has been since 1917 and 1908 for us in terms of world series wins Chicagoans are patient I will try again Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetrycalendar.blogspot.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of David A. Kirschenbaum > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 6:13 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Baseball poem > > > hi haas, > > thanks for yr sub, but unfortunately i had to go another way. > > as ever, > david > > -- > David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher > Boog City > 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H > NY, NY 10001-4754 > For event and publication information: > http://boogcity.blog-city.com/ > T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) > F: (212) 842-2429 > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:18:18 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Edmond Jabes Resources In-Reply-To: <200403200103.i2K13FBX029945@merle.it.northwestern.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i agree; this is an extraordinary story. it could be the basis of some kind of anthology...of short autobiographical vignettes of poetic influence or spark. At 7:02 PM -0600 3/19/04, ela kotkowska wrote: >i don't know whether you meant to post it or send it to mIEKAL only, but >this is the most beautiful thing i read on this list ... > >where can one find Etta Blum's writings? > > >-----Original Message----- >From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On >Behalf Of Joel Weishaus >Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 6:52 PM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Edmond Jabes Resources > >mIEKAL: > >It happened this way. I met a woman at the Helene Wurlitzer Foundation, in >Taos, NM. Her name was Etta Blum. Etta's first book of poems, which was >published sometime during the 1940s, received acclaim from some major >critics. (William Carlos Williams asked her for a review copy, but she never >wrote him back!) Soon afterwards, she married a Yiddish writer who was in >the circle of I.B. >Singer. Unlike Singer, he never became well-known. Etta stopped writing to >raise the children (Unfortunately, this is not an unusual story.) >Afterwards, she became a teacher in the NYC system. When I met her, she was >in her early 70s, and had been writing again for a number of years, but >never got much recognition again. > When her time at the foundation was over, she moved to Santa Fe. I returned >to Santa Fe, too, where Etta and I had some interesting discussions. The >woman _lived_ literature. She died from cancer about a year later. >After I moved to Albuquerque, I was looking through her archive, which is at >the University of New Mexico. I was amazed at the people with whom she had >been in contact. In one letter, someone--I forget who--wrote that she >"should take a look at Edmund Jabes's 'The Book of Questions.'" I don't know >whether she did. But I know that I did, and it changed my life. > >-Joel > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "mIEKAL aND" >To: >Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 2:07 PM >Subject: Re: Edmond Jabes Resources > > >> Joel: Any writing in particular that turned you around? >> >> >> On Friday, March 19, 2004, at 09:54 AM, Joel Weishaus wrote: >> >> > Jabes saved my life, so I'm happy to see his name brought up. Even >> > though I can't read him anymore, I still respect him and his work >> > enormously. >> > It's >> > his transformation, from someone else to himself, that's most >> > important. >> > When I found Jabes, writing became possible again. I washed my > > > hands, and haven't stopped writing since. I told a would-be poet > > > friend, "You've got to read this guy." He didn't, and so remained a > > > would-be poet. Read Jabes and weep for joy, as here's a Jew who sees >> > through walls. >> > >> > -Joel >> > -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:56:00 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Check out The Assassinated Press Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press (http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/) Haiti Politicians Say New 'Vichy' Gov't Kleptocratic Like Its U.S. Creator: New Cabinet A Who's Who Of People Who No One Voted For In Last Election: FOIA Request Turns Up Documents Showing The NED Gave Venezuelan 'White Asses' Money; Assassinated Press Right Again! Washington Post Wrong. Washington Times Soils Itself As Usual.: Its The Project For A New American Century Vs. Central Intelligence; PNAC Candidate De Facto President Dick Cheney Trades Barbs With CIA Candidate John Kerry: Kerry Promises Not To Re-open Subcommittee Hearings On CIA/NSC/State Drugs, Arms and Terrorist Connections In Exchange For Democratic Candidacy By Lian Sham U.S. Spin: State Department Relied on Others To Overthrow Haiti: For A Close Shave Try CIA Track II Redactable Razing: Powell Steps In It Ala WMD: Times, Post Suck Up Oval Office Offal---An Unbowdlerized Foreign Policy Laced With Sexual Innuendo & Scatalogical Hyberbole by Pecker Sloven They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:59:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sina Queyras Subject: slander MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For what it's worth, I second this and other objections to the post. But = then I also objected to hearing about Ginsberg fucking someone's--a = student at Naropa possibly?--thighs. That was also posted on the = listserv in the last year or so. It's a pretty fine line...it's a = complicated issue that probably needs some attention, but I'm not sure = one that should be "processed" on this list. =20 Sina=20 Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:05:59 EST From: Anselm Hollo Subject: slander In a message dated 3/19/2004 1:10:51, kirby olson writes: << He (Allen Ginsberg) set up the school in order to prey on kids. >> Kirby, you should be ashamed of yourself. And so should Mr. Noodle. Such unsubstantiated claims / quotes are actionable. Be forewarned. Anselm Hollo Professor Writing and Poetics Naropa University Boulder Colorado U.S.A ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:38:26 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Provocation In-Reply-To: <952C7894-7A6B-11D8-8F26-003065BE1640@albany.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SUSTAIN CLEAR CHANNEL ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:42:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: a very good book to read re marxism and poetry Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu In-Reply-To: <405B45BD.4F6D9415@delhi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For the record, a great many of us took hallucinogens back then. Very few=20 of us did so because of Allen. Very few were damaged by them, either. I worked with adolescents in mental= =20 health clinics from about 1975 to 1985. The group I worked with were more=20 damaged than the general population--I mean, it was a mental health=20 clinic--but not in any obvious long-term way because of LSD, altho many of= =20 them took it. Of those who did some, but by no means all, of those who were= =20 most likely to have psychotic episodes had them while tripping--they also=20 had them while clean. The most damaged in fact took no illegal drugs--they= =20 weren't well-socialized enough to make the necessary contacts. Even in the case of PCP, whose otherwise non-psychotic users were far more= =20 likely thanLSD users to wind up spending a couple of weeks in a psych ward,= =20 there seemed to be no long-term effect--they seemed no more likely to have= =20 a psychotic episode while clean than anyone else. The lesson here is that the presence of two variables doesn't prove that=20 one causes the other. For instance, I'd hesitate to suggest that your=20 friends were damaged merely because they were your friends. I would be curious to know what connection you divine between LSD and=20 Communism. You must know that the avowed communists among adolescents back= =20 then were rather puritanical about drugs. Tho I think you use the word communism more as an epithet than a precise=20 identification. Rather like the way you use marxism. In case somehow you=20 missed it, a reason your use of these labels antagonizes so many folks on=20 the list is the damage such labels have caused. I won't claim to have suffered much in this regard, but I've been called,=20 inacurately, a communist more than a few times, the first in 1955 when I=20 was 12 years old--by the traffic cop near my JHS who overheard me arguing=20 in favor of Stevenson's election. He spat it out with real venom. It might= =20 be good to remember that there really is a culture war, and it's been going= =20 on for a long time. Mark At 02:10 PM 3/19/2004 -0500, Kirby Olson wrote: >David-Baptiste asked me to forward this note from him since his computer >access is shaky. He noted in another note he sent to me that there are >statues of MAyakovsky all over the Soviet Union because of a line from >Stalin. He also notes that Mayakovsky committed suicide, so I suppose >there is one more to add to the list. Chirot says that he was suicided >by the state. But I think I understood that he committed suicide over >despair over which way the revolution was going (to hell). > >He felt bad that he had spent so much time making it happen. > >In a similar way I feel bad that in many ways I helped to support Beat >poets and writers for so long. I think that particular revolution stank >because of its anti-intellectualism. I liked Ginsberg personally, and >thought he could be charming, but at Naropa it seemed that all he did >was chase after young men. When Harry Nudel mentioned that he >(Ginsberg) himself had said that he had set up the school in order to >bag kids, it immediately made sense to me. > >The first amendment in this country guarantees the right of discussion >to everyone. Libel is extremely difficult to prove, especially for >famous people. It's impossible for dead people. You can say anything >you want about the dead. This is basic to libel law, and to American >freedom. Ginsberg is responsible for the deaths of at least three of my >high school friends because one night watching Dick Cavett he spoke >about LSD and its wondrous effects. We got some, tripped, and two of >them went nuts. One hanged himself and the other drove his motorcycle >through a billboard. The third one is still a little goofy -- walks >around my home town muttering to himself. The fourth of that gang is >writing this note. > >I came to hate the revolutionary left quite early on, and have more or >less hated it ever since. Of course we are responsible -- we were 16 >-- and should have known better. But it sounded so great! Just like >communism! Sounds great! > >The very idea that you can try to stop people from talking about them is >what they seem to live for -- the total control of perception. But >Ginsberg wasn't the saint that he apparently thought he was. He was a >nutcase and a fink, even if he was also a genius. > >Famous people who have had a lot of attention such as Trungpa and >Ginsberg can suck a lot of people down into their Vortex. If you can't >say that you think that they were horrible, and can only say that they >were saints, then you leave a lot of other people open to being >destroyed by them. Naropa has had a lot of horrible things go on >there. Anyone who values their mental hygiene should step lightly in >that place, as its karma is sick. I enjoyed my two summers at Naropa, >but I found it hard to believe, too. I love Corso's poetry, and thank >Ginsberg for what he did for Corso in terms of keeping him alive. I >also think that Ginsberg was charming and generous to many many other >people. I think we should also be free to discuss his wicked side >(NAMBLA), as well as other aspects of the man. It's a matter of mental >hygiene. > >There are worse places than Naropa (I'd probably go there again if I was >a young poet again in order to study with Anselm -- even though he too >sometimes strikes me as well, he's alive, so I'm not going to say >anything except that I think he's overly loyal to his friends). The >Soviet Union was a worse place for poets than Naropa. But here is >brilliant David Chirot recommending its poet Mayakovsky's theory of >Marxist poetry -- amuse-toi bien! > >-- Kirby > > > >David-Baptiste Chirot wrote: > > > Dear Kirby: > > > > poetics won't accept my posts due to format-- > > so sending this direct to you- > > a superb book to read regarding marxism and poetry is > > HOW ARE VERSES MADE > > by V. Mayakovsky (you cd mention this to list for me if you like--) > > i have on website also--at poetics--dave chirot chapbook--from ninth > > lab > > has a lot to do with mayakovsky, sectionsi nterwoevn into the > > story/poem of quotes from him > > and at end reflections on the state poet suicided by the state-- > > i appreciate your wanting to have open ended discussions--though one > > must always be aware of one's parts of mind that are as it were > > closed--made up,so to speak--(as in making up on'es mind, not as in > > making up things!)-- > > what i wanted to ask you--in one post you wrote of your coming out of > > study of french literature--that really interets me as having for many > > decades been (and am right now)-(reading two bios of Celine, some of > > his works in french on web, TALKING POETICS AT NAROPA--Hawthorne's > > AMERICAN NOTEBOOKS ( a great persoanl favorite--)--checkingout the new > > english language editons of Rimbaud--and reading Burrough's QUEER > > again--and am translating from the french a piece by the great italian > > poet Ungaretti on Lautreamont-- > > i gather your especial interest is in surrealism? > > personally i rather am dubious about the influence of Lutheranism per > > se as being as all pervasive perhaps as you do--more really Puritanism > > in this country--the whole PC aspect is straight out of Puritanism, as > > i think Language poetry is very much-- > > a lotof the sturggle in american poetry is between formalisms--and the > > other traditon, out of emerson through pound, williams, olson--that > > is, the aspects which are related to nature, to writing as a kind of > > hieroglypic language--visual/sound/performative-- > > Poe in a sense has both--esp in ARTHUR PYM-- > > also read an excellent study called THE EMERGENCE OF SOCIAL SPACE > > Rimbaud the Paris Commune by Krisitn Ross- > > i have essay re Rimbaud in CRAYON issue 3--currently writing some re > > mail art, visual poetry and rubBEings--(what is often called > > frottage--) > > i wd be very interested to hear more about your ineterst in the > > french--but only when and if you have time! s you are very busy i can > > tell! > > all best, davdi-baptiste > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page =AD > > FREE download! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:54:44 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: slander In-Reply-To: <00c001c40e8b$e104fce0$491410ac@virginia> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit a good dialogue no matter how spirited, would be great here on the listserv- I have never heard this type of thing before regarding Ginsberg and it is disgusting to post this here. How many hetero/breeder sexual male poets used poetry to 'prey'on women? And these are substantiated, every one since Petrarch I am sure Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetrycalendar.blogspot.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Sina Queyras > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 8:59 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: slander > > > For what it's worth, I second this and other objections to the > post. But then I also objected to hearing about Ginsberg fucking > someone's--a student at Naropa possibly?--thighs. That was also > posted on the listserv in the last year or so. It's a pretty fine > line...it's a complicated issue that probably needs some > attention, but I'm not sure one that should be "processed" on this list. > > Sina > > > > Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:05:59 EST > From: Anselm Hollo > Subject: slander > > In a message dated 3/19/2004 1:10:51, kirby olson writes: > << He (Allen Ginsberg) set up the school in order to prey on kids. >> > > Kirby, you should be ashamed of yourself. And so should Mr. Noodle. > > Such unsubstantiated claims / quotes are actionable. Be forewarned. > > Anselm Hollo > Professor > Writing and Poetics > Naropa University > Boulder Colorado U.S.A > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:55:42 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Terrie Relf Subject: Re: slander MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I like a good dialogue... Let's say there are people who abuse their power--and the context varies... Ter who went to Naropa, who's heard it all... > a good dialogue no matter how spirited, would be great here on the > listserv- > I have never heard this type of thing before regarding Ginsberg and it is > disgusting to post this here. How many hetero/breeder sexual male poets used > poetry to 'prey'on women? And these are substantiated, > every one since Petrarch I am sure > > > Raymond L Bianchi > chicagopostmodernpoetrycalendar.blogspot.com/ > collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Sina Queyras > > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 8:59 AM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: slander > > > > > > For what it's worth, I second this and other objections to the > > post. But then I also objected to hearing about Ginsberg fucking > > someone's--a student at Naropa possibly?--thighs. That was also > > posted on the listserv in the last year or so. It's a pretty fine > > line...it's a complicated issue that probably needs some > > attention, but I'm not sure one that should be "processed" on this list. > > > > Sina > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:05:59 EST > > From: Anselm Hollo > > Subject: slander > > > > In a message dated 3/19/2004 1:10:51, kirby olson writes: > > << He (Allen Ginsberg) set up the school in order to prey on kids. >> > > > > Kirby, you should be ashamed of yourself. And so should Mr. Noodle. > > > > Such unsubstantiated claims / quotes are actionable. Be forewarned. > > > > Anselm Hollo > > Professor > > Writing and Poetics > > Naropa University > > Boulder Colorado U.S.A > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:24:22 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Slander/Libel... Comments: To: Harry Nudel In-Reply-To: <31063250.1079749285645.JavaMail.root@wamui02.slb.atl.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I agree with Harry on this one (and so does Buffy the Vampire Slayer: it's about the power). Now, could we lose this speculative and adolescent thread and talk of something of real interest, like Sam Tanenhaus election as High Priest, oh wait, Editor of the NYTBR. I think an email campaign about how the Times treats poetry is in order. Robert -- Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop UW Box: 351237 On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, Harry Nudel wrote: > I think folks lost this thread.. > for me it's not about sex > > or creepiness or what someone > sd...30 yrs ago... > > it's about POWER..and its uses > AND what happens when P.O.W.E.R. > > is threatened.....left/rite/left > pretty much the same S.h.i.T.. > > drn.. > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:46:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: a different thread, for Robert MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Robert, I believe Buffy said that to Dawn, at the beginning of the seventh season, when she was seperated from both of the bloodsucking men she loved. The rest of the seventh season seemed to be an attempt to prove her wrong. Note that the series ends with Spike saving the world. Despite the hooplah that was made about the dessimation of the power of the slayer, the real victory over evil was won by Spike, who was only able to save the world because of his willingness to surrender his power and channel the power of another force, which he could only do after acquiring a soul (a loss of power), surrendering his own rights to the rights of a team that tried to kill him, and surrendering all his rights, including his life, to his unconditional love of Buffy (the greatest loss of power imaginable), and, by extension, humanity. One needs hardly point out that Anya died in the final exchange and the powerless Andrew survived. One probably shouldn't point out that the 21-year-old Buffy was fearless in her rejection of her teachers and mentors when they became dangerous to her mission and/or her happiness. If poets are supposed to be connected to humanity at all, I think a discussion of Buffy will serve us far better than a discussion of Tanenhaus. Perhaps we should contrast and compare. -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Corbett" To: Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 11:24 AM Subject: Re: Slander/Libel... > I agree with Harry on this one (and so does Buffy the Vampire Slayer: > it's about the power). > > Now, could we lose this speculative and adolescent thread and talk of > something of real interest, like Sam Tanenhaus election as High Priest, oh > wait, Editor of the NYTBR. I think an email campaign about how the Times > treats poetry is in order. > > Robert > > -- > Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, > Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the > B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the > Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of > Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop > UW Box: 351237 > > On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, Harry Nudel wrote: > > > I think folks lost this thread.. > > for me it's not about sex > > > > or creepiness or what someone > > sd...30 yrs ago... > > > > it's about POWER..and its uses > > AND what happens when P.O.W.E.R. > > > > is threatened.....left/rite/left > > pretty much the same S.h.i.T.. > > > > drn.. > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:03:02 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ela kotkowska Subject: poet-in-command MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit a friend just fwdid this to me, quite entertaining:: Make the Pie Higher poem composed of quotations by george bush I think we all agree, the past is over. This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty And potential mental losses. Rarely is the question asked Is our children learning? Will the highways of the Internet Become more few? How many hands have I shaked? They misunderestimate me. I am a pitbull on the pantleg of oppurtunity. I know that the human being And the fish can coexist. Families is where our nation finds hope, Where our wings take dream. Put food on your family! Knock down the tollbooth! Vulcanize society! Make the pie higher! Make the pie higher! ** And, if you haven't seen it yet, check out George Bush's unofficial yearbook :: link to the image in the freshest post at http://incertainplume.blogspot.com ** pluminously yours, ela ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:28:08 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Etta Blum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ela: This morning, I looked in Powells and found a copy of Etta Blum's first book, "Poems." (Golden Eagle Editions 1937.) Inside there are a few handwritten letters from her. Of course I bought it, along with a paperback copy of "The Space My Body Fills," published by Stonestone Press, 1982. (There's a hardback edition that she self-published.) What treasures! We have the same archivist, at The University of New Mexico, so someday I'll send the book and the letters there. Best Regards, Joel __________________________________ Joel Weishaus Visiting Faculty Department of English Portland State University Portland, Oregon Home: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 Archive: www.cddc.vt.edu/host/weishaus/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 19:37:11 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: Provocation In-Reply-To: <64E38E75-7A95-11D8-9936-0003935A5BDA@mwt.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit that means we don't post anything right?;) On Saturday, March 20, 2004, at 05:38 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > SUSTAIN CLEAR CHANNEL > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:59:05 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ela kotkowska Subject: Re: Etta Blum In-Reply-To: <001201c40eb1$7a94f840$e1fdfc83@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit incredible! (ink read-ible!) obviously (in the root-sense of the word!), the book was waiting for your encounter. i requested her poems through interlibrary loan. really intrigued: both by the poems as well as by the silence separating the two collections (1937 - 1975, is it?) -- and, as i mentioned, by her very name, as arbitrary as such attractions may be: it speaks to me of taut reticence & quiet explosion. if you should ever scan the letters to jaypegs, i would be grateful for an emailing. regardings, ela -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Joel Weishaus Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 1:28 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Etta Blum Ela: This morning, I looked in Powells and found a copy of Etta Blum's first book, "Poems." (Golden Eagle Editions 1937.) Inside there are a few handwritten letters from her. Of course I bought it, along with a paperback copy of "The Space My Body Fills," published by Stonestone Press, 1982. (There's a hardback edition that she self-published.) What treasures! We have the same archivist, at The University of New Mexico, so someday I'll send the book and the letters there. Best Regards, Joel __________________________________ Joel Weishaus Visiting Faculty Department of English Portland State University Portland, Oregon Home: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 Archive: www.cddc.vt.edu/host/weishaus/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:49:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sasha Watson Subject: Belladonna Bilingue - French poetry in translation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable enjoy=A0 = BELLADONNA* BILINGUE =3A = Women=92s Work in Translation work will be presented in French and English March 26=2C 6 PM = This event is cosponsored by and will take place at =A0La Maison Fran=E7aise of New York University 16 Washington Mews = (just off University Place between Washington Square North = and 8th Street) a bilingual Belladonna* anthology will be published in honor = of this event! =A0Featuring translators=3A *Laura Wright *Joshua Clover *Kristin Prevallet *Sherry Brennan *Marcella Durand *Lisa Lubasch *Tina Cane = *Serge Gavronsky *Sasha Watson *Macgregor Card = Reading their translations of=3A *Henri Michaux *Genevieve Bernstein *Sandra Moussemp=E9s *Jean-Michel Espitallier *Paul Eluard *Joyce Mansour *Oscarine=A0 Bosquet *Sabine Macher *Nathalie Quintane =A0Belladonna* is a feminist/innovative reading and publication = series that promotes the work of women writers who are = adventurous=2C experimental=2C politically involved=2C multi-form=2C = multicultural=2C multi-gendered=2C unpredictable=2C dangerous with = language (to the death machinery)=2E In its five year history=2C = Belladonna* has featured such writers as Leslie Scalapino=2C = Alice Notley=2C Erica Hunt=2C Fanny Howe=2C Mei-mei Berssenbrugge=2C = Cecilia Vicu=F1a=2C Lisa Jarnot=2C Camille Roy=2C Nicole Brossard=2C = Abigail Child=2C Norma Cole=2C Lynne Tillman and Carla Harryman = among many other experimental and hybrid women writers=2E = Beyond being a platform for women writers=2C the curators = promote work that is experimental in form=2C connects with = other art forms=2C and is socially/politically active in content=2E = Alongside the readings=2C Belladonna* supports its artists by = publishing commemorative pamphlets of their work on the = night of the event=2E Please contact us (Rachel Levitsky and Erica = Kaufman) at belladonnaseries=40yahoo=2Ecom to receive a catalog = and be placed on our list=2E = Through its rich and varied program in the areas of French = culture and civilization=2C La Maison Fran=E7aise has played a = major role in the flow of intellectual currents and ideas = between France and the United States=2E The program of = activities of La Maison Fran=E7aise covers a broad spectrum of = subjects and opinion and includes lectures=2C symposia=2C = conferences=2C panel discussions=2C film and video screenings=2C art = exhibits=2C concerts=2C theater productions=2C and special = presentations=2E For more information call 212-998-8750 or = email maison=2Efrancaise=40nyu=2Eedu=2E *deadly nightshade=2C a cardiac and respiratory stimulant=2C = having purplish-red flowers and black berries Belladonna* readings happen monthly between September = and June ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:52:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sasha Watson Subject: Belladonna Bilingue - French poetry in translation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable enjoy=A0 = BELLADONNA* BILINGUE =3A = Women=92s Work in Translation work will be presented in French and English March 26=2C 6 PM = This event is cosponsored by and will take place at =A0La Maison Fran=E7aise of New York University 16 Washington Mews = (just off University Place between Washington Square North = and 8th Street) a bilingual Belladonna* anthology will be published in honor = of this event! =A0Featuring translators=3A *Laura Wright *Joshua Clover *Kristin Prevallet *Sherry Brennan *Marcella Durand *Lisa Lubasch *Tina Cane = *Serge Gavronsky *Sasha Watson *Macgregor Card = Reading their translations of=3A *Henri Michaux *Genevieve Bernstein *Sandra Moussemp=E9s *Jean-Michel Espitallier *Paul Eluard *Joyce Mansour *Oscarine=A0 Bosquet *Sabine Macher *Nathalie Quintane =A0Belladonna* is a feminist/innovative reading and publication = series that promotes the work of women writers who are = adventurous=2C experimental=2C politically involved=2C multi-form=2C = multicultural=2C multi-gendered=2C unpredictable=2C dangerous with = language (to the death machinery)=2E In its five year history=2C = Belladonna* has featured such writers as Leslie Scalapino=2C = Alice Notley=2C Erica Hunt=2C Fanny Howe=2C Mei-mei Berssenbrugge=2C = Cecilia Vicu=F1a=2C Lisa Jarnot=2C Camille Roy=2C Nicole Brossard=2C = Abigail Child=2C Norma Cole=2C Lynne Tillman and Carla Harryman = among many other experimental and hybrid women writers=2E = Beyond being a platform for women writers=2C the curators = promote work that is experimental in form=2C connects with = other art forms=2C and is socially/politically active in content=2E = Alongside the readings=2C Belladonna* supports its artists by = publishing commemorative pamphlets of their work on the = night of the event=2E Please contact us (Rachel Levitsky and Erica = Kaufman) at belladonnaseries=40yahoo=2Ecom to receive a catalog = and be placed on our list=2E = Through its rich and varied program in the areas of French = culture and civilization=2C La Maison Fran=E7aise has played a = major role in the flow of intellectual currents and ideas = between France and the United States=2E The program of = activities of La Maison Fran=E7aise covers a broad spectrum of = subjects and opinion and includes lectures=2C symposia=2C = conferences=2C panel discussions=2C film and video screenings=2C art = exhibits=2C concerts=2C theater productions=2C and special = presentations=2E For more information call 212-998-8750 or = email maison=2Efrancaise=40nyu=2Eedu=2E *deadly nightshade=2C a cardiac and respiratory stimulant=2C = having purplish-red flowers and black berries Belladonna* readings happen monthly between September = and June ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:25:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: origin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII origin http://www.asondheim.org/origin0.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/origin1.png http://www.asondheim.org/origin2.png http://www.asondheim.org/origin3.png http://www.asondheim.org/origin4.png for john furnival and dom sylvester houedard for those with the clarity to see the light of all creation for those willing to chance the breath of the cosmos for those who believe and believe in believing "Indeed, it is the Word, it is language, that really reveals to man that world which is closer to him than any world of natural objects and touches his weal and woe more directly than physical nature." (Ernst Cassirer) -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:24:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maureen Robins Subject: Re: Etta Blum In-Reply-To: <200403201959.i2KJxAcx006872@merle.it.northwestern.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I'm new to this list but I'm intrigued also by this. Is it possible that I can share in reading the letters and the poems? I am now also on the hunt to read Jabes's Book of Questions. Thank you so much! Maureen Picard Robins on 3/20/04 2:59 PM, ela kotkowska at ela@NORTHWESTERN.EDU wrote: > incredible! > (ink read-ible!) > > obviously (in the root-sense of the word!), the book was waiting for your > encounter. > > > > i requested her poems through interlibrary loan. really intrigued: both by > the poems as well as by the silence separating the two collections (1937 - > 1975, is it?) -- and, as i mentioned, by her very name, as arbitrary as such > attractions may be: it speaks to me of taut reticence & quiet explosion. > > if you should ever scan the letters to jaypegs, i would be grateful for an > emailing. > > regardings, > > ela > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Joel Weishaus > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 1:28 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Etta Blum > > Ela: > > This morning, I looked in Powells and found a copy of Etta Blum's first > book, "Poems." (Golden Eagle Editions 1937.) Inside there are a few > handwritten letters from her. Of course I bought it, along with a paperback > copy of "The Space My Body Fills," published by Stonestone Press, 1982. > (There's a hardback edition that she self-published.) What treasures! > We have the same archivist, at The University of New Mexico, so someday > I'll send the book and the letters there. > > Best Regards, > Joel > > __________________________________ > > Joel Weishaus > Visiting Faculty > Department of English > Portland State University > Portland, Oregon > > Home: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 > Archive: www.cddc.vt.edu/host/weishaus/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:08:16 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Slander/Libel... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Well, Ginsberg wasn't the only one on the prowl at Naropa, and students and faculty were probably equally so at that period in time. From this perspective, it seems creepy. But this is after twenty years of feminism telling on profs and pointing out the power differential. Yes, it did hurt some institutions. The only way to keep institutions in check sometimes is to publish their bullshit. The Dalai Lama himself says as much in the link I'm adding to this post. I just cracked up when Nudel reported this about the Ginz. I felt like I had stepped into a cowpie that had been set for me. And I did publish my original piece on the Ginz while he was still alive. I'm sure he couldn't have cared less. The guy was a laugh-meister. LSD and communism and Allen Ginsberg and on and on. I don't put all of these things in the same basket. For instance, some hippies were communists, but Allen wasn't. He wasn't really even a Marxist. The Marxists were always mad at him for it. Some of his poems touch on that. He's a bit red from his mom, but not very red. He was a good capitalist, it seems to me. He was something else, too -- some kind of romantic out of Blake. Look through his theoretical texts -- he writes about Blake, not Marx. It's a good simple take on Blake, too. Very nice. Genius, probably. Didn't I say that? People are so touchy. So black and white. Either you're with us or against us. That's why I hate the sixties and just wish they'd get the fuck over with so we could go back to being fallen and cool it with all the Pelagian sainthood. Saints make me sick, and besides they don't exist. Harry and I are just noodlers, so try to relax. Your icons are not sacred. These people sucked. They were still more interesting than a lot of people who sucked in other ways. Try to relax and lower your expectations of the world. One, there aren't any saints, and if there were, I would kill them. So would everybody else. Two, artists are motivated by all kinds of things, and one of them is sex. Big deal. Like, man, like Freud even knew that, ok? As for Naropa, all kinds of poets have come down on the place. Ed Sanders, Tom Clark, and many many others -- Bly, Snyder, etc. That's part of our duty. To give each institution a bloodbath in order to guarantee hygiene. It's not to give some kind of fascist salute. If the Kentucky Fried Chicken sells you a rat, and you publicize it, and this hurts their sales, then it doesn't mean that you can be sued for it, or that you should be. It's a public duty to point out rattiness.. Look up Naropa and there are tens of thousands of people bellyaching about the place. Try this link for more on Trungpa, Osel Tenzin, and all that. Personally, I got a lot ouit of the place and escaped without so much as a few laughs, and a few strange stories. People were talking about some joint up in Chicago a few months back. Some sort of poetry school. Personally I felt it was very nasty, and tried to introduce a note of humor to give some perspective. Frankly, I doubt if any institution is either totally demonic or totally saintly. Strange that the vested interests of that place in Chicago didn't start screaming law suit. Personally, I liked Naropa, although I have mixed feelings about some of its founders. Excuse me, but is that permissable? Try this link -- there's more about sexual predators among the new Buddhist guru-types. Suffice it to say that the Catholic church is full of them, too. Now if nobody was allowed to point this out, then there wouldn't be law suits. But law suits can go both ways. I could claim that Ginsberg wrecked my life, for instance. He messed me up in many ways. He probably did lots of other young men, too. Some of the young Catholics are claiming that sort of thing, decades later, and getting paid millions. I could probably close the place, but I have no interest in doing that. Institutions have responsibilities to those who go through them. Personally I consider myself ahead for having attended Naropa, but there were some things I wish I could have known in advance. Live and learn. At least I wasn't hurt as badly as some of the people seemingly were in the following story -- http://www.american-buddha.com/sexual.healing.htm -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:15:42 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kristin Dykstra Subject: Douglas at 305 Gallery / Ramos & Tejada at Washington St. Studio Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >You are cordially invited to join us for two back-to-back arts >events happening in Bloomington, IL, on Saturday, March >27, 2004. Directions are at the bottom of this message. > >An opening reception for an exhibition of artists books and >encaustic paintings by LJ Douglas, professor of art at Illinois >State University, takes place at Room 305 Gallery from 5-7 pm. > >At 7pm, the Washington St. Studio Readings series features >visiting writers Peter Ramos (Buffalo, NY) and Roberto Tejada >(San Diego, CA). > >PETER RAMOS=92 poetry has appeared in Poet Lore, The >Chattahoochee Review, Verse, Meridian, Maverick, and >Slipstream. In 2000, he was nominated for a Pushcart Prize. >His chapbooks include Short Waves (White Eagle Coffee Store >Press) and Watching Late-Night Hitchcock & Other Poems >(Handwritten Press). Ramos holds graduate degrees from >George Mason University and University at Buffalo. He teaches >and lives in Buffalo, NY. > >Working at intersections between visual art, creative writing, >translation, and cultural studies, ROBERTO TEJADA is assistant >professor of Art History, Theory, and Criticism in the Visual Arts >Department at the University of California, San Diego. He teaches >the histories of Latin American art and photography, Latino visual >culture, and the politics of curatorial theory and practice. A >visual arts critic, photography historian, and curator, he is the >author of Manuel =C1lvarez Bravo: In Focus (Getty Publications, >2001) and Mexico/New York (Editorial RM | D.A.P., 2003). T >ejada has completed a book manuscript entitled Travels in the >Image Environment: Camera Culture Out of Mexico, 1900 and >After. The study explores art historical episodes in the relation >between visual documents and local identities while examining >how Mexican and U.S. cultural narratives are encapsulated and >transformed in photographic images, as well as in the various >kinds of writing about them. With Derrick Cartwright he co-curated >the exhibition =93Luis Gispert: Loud Image=94 scheduled to open this >summer at the Hood Museum, Dartmouth College (2004), and >he is currently writing a monograph on the work of artist Celia >=C1lvarez Mu=F1oz. Tejada has published widely as a literary >translator, with recent contributions to a new collection of poetry >by Jos=E9 Lezama Lima, forthcoming from the University of >California Press. He is the author of two collections of poetry, >Gift + Verdict (San Francisco: Leroy Books, 1999) and Amulet >Anatomy (New Haven, CT: Phylum Press, 2001). > >WHERE: >Room 305 Gallery >510 E. Washington St. >Suite 304 >Bloomington, IL >(located on the 3rd floor of the old >Bloomington Jr. High School at the >corner of Washington and McLean) >(309)824-6493 >**parking is available on street and in lot behind the building. > Dr. Kristin Dykstra Assistant Professor Department of English Illinois State University Campus Box 4240 Normal, IL 61790-4240 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:27:21 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Sleeping With Students... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been called a haberdasher, scum & noodle on this listserv.. talk of lack of P.O.W.E.R... I'd like to clarify one pt & then drop the thread... someone asked why i didn't argue with Allen G when he made his 'to coin a phrase' smart ass remark.. he wasn't talking to me.. i overheard it..& more i was too busy trying to sleep with my own students (without much success) i had just studied with John Logan... a great teacher & exemplary person..tho he drank a six-pack too much.. who was then living with & i assume fucking a former male student..my next door neighbor at 50 divorces his ex and married an undergrad & two Eng.profs the term before switched wives.. this was centuries ere they had committees on sexual harrassment.. William Mathew's son in his new memoir of his father (i assume a reliable source) says his dad offered him (at 17) the pick of the litter of his grad po students.. (they'd all sleep with him.. "if he sd so") When i was in CCNY.. 40 or more or so yrs ago i heard two coeds talkin' of a prof.. 'he made me do things that i'm ashamed of" these were in the days 'fore anal & oral sex were the fodder of every Howard Stern day.. touchee touchee yr idol..or..ideals... power destroyed Ginsies poetry & the little humanity he had in him... maybe it would have taken a saint to do otherwise... i'm just reporting the ...facts..maam.. ready aim fire.. you killed the messenger... drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:54:55 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Ashley D. Edwards" Subject: Re: Etta Blum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Joel, Do you live in Portland? You mentioned going to Powells...Don't see many Portlanders on the list... A. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 02:20:57 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karl-Erik Tallmo Subject: The Poesy Parenchyma Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Passion sweet prove calling weeks denied gold used rye itself praise beatbest free certain eyen found wisely bards through beast twelfth flower human rally eager on seen pussy you one of goods seem uld heresy inkedraise even in wheesouth wouldn't nine freece worse clinked fiure seen raise where tain nature dark 'n' center'd praise whristling passed out anew editing me anew scarce about book sinsogfeh formal christ mic two thing taken ire soonly poets fulla dogma since most shining will reek virtuelhoed has first sins feel ast sted faithit rut specialabit sea chore man's cast gone upon wolf more often central faith truths erse case order; acrossnosegay get tough; across ago poesy null against jumps invoked no summary universe analyze made denial no half using poesy attempt being stealthbea or stormore which story errors as old game freed Thomas too behind overly cold steal bead deviate stilloosed primgame opposed primal tarries i've within pride reedoning false youth still current teachemofmost brolder books have most bridges also way enter man suggest wordshort gum gong tenths teach for gant temple lexa truth suffuggest word bless such good falun umple teacher energy; wrong waters just results English huefine ambient well brief without church white defined obvious opnyambient above opinion history heretic xaminerhaps age demospecies stamines at ear hazy counterdemon picture country talking bible from it bad must post away largely site anywho badhem evident pworpular empawah popular flowery as crystal held egalds with days actoit is legal them vident word signifyse rhyme connectation scheme nignected inaccuracies sink society thought so mannered works whitedas justat like Aquinas /Karl-Erik Tallmo _________________________________________________________________ KARL-ERIK TALLMO, poet, writer, artist, journalist MAGAZINE: http://art-bin.com ARTWORK, WRITINGS etc.: http://www.nisus.se/tallmo/ __________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:44:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: collaboration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII collaboration la the enemy, espionage, each reading the other, of public arrive at everything through collaboration, discussion, lb you'd be surprised collaborative work series into a hypertext collaboration list or co moderate or begin or end collaborations inside of me it /*in*/ where i work alone i collaborate badly i bristle my thoughts lc among my jews, collaboration ld among my jews, collaboration prolegomena against collaboration collaboration take it or leave it collaboration take it or be taken the violence of collaboration collaboration as 'grappling' collaboration with the enemy because one is a collaborator and one's hair is a role is always a collaboration in the sense of collaboration with the enemy collaborative exchange is void of value value in its limits the emptiness of collaboration pure labor collaboration is always better than working collaboration sublimates subsumes desire structured collaboration has its limits indeed, this is collaboration with the enemy collision collusion maybe collaboration maybe colloidal collaboration collaboration between two dying writers collaboration on the lam from the law collaboration marching from kosovo collaboration wounded in east timor collaboration of iraqi dead collaboration beneath earthquake in free fire zone, collaboration in mountain fire zone, collaboration collaboration among prisoners collaboration between rival gangs the last breath, you against the light, collaborating collaborating with friends collaborating with the enemy to collaborate among the ruins of the atomic bomb insistent on the lyric after auschwitz, collaboration among my jews, collaboration among my neo nazis, collaboration collaboration in the last words ever spoken collaboration among the last tears, the last sigh collaboration at a loss for words war time and collaboration and of great beauty and moons wheeling, collaboration s the book really dead another world, 'd love to collaborate with you on a creative work where its precisely because other people are setting up the collaborative making substitutions all over the place, and have collaborated i i _ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 00:00:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sina Queyras Subject: slander MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the insightful posts regarding slander, Naropa and Ginsberg. = As someone who teaches in a university setting I'm particularly aware of = the eros between instructor/student. And I feel very strongly that this = is a power relationship, one that should never be tampered with. I know = that Ginsberg was a bit of a prowler--he spoke pretty openly about that = and it's a part of him I find disturbing. Pema Chodron also speaks about = Trungpa Rimpoche and his sexual exploits--I know there are no sacred = cows. I suppose what I was reacting to was the aloof manner in which the = comments about Ginsberg were offered--the lack of context. The issue is = large and complicated and I respect trying to open up that dialogue in = some way. I guess I also question the intent of posting like that. I = mean was this meant to just diss Ginsberg, or to start a discussion = about why the academy, for all of it's sexual harassment savvy, seems to = still feel like it's fine to have professors having affairs with = students, because that would be useful. To be honest, I find it = baffling. =20 Sina=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 06:55:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: "Sonnet: Democracy Red in Tooth and Claw" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sonnet: Democracy Red in Tooth and Claw When my mother asked me to go with her to sell the house, I thought at first she was just a tad loopy, considering that our representatives are supposedly guided by the citizenry, that gardening isn't quite as good as it used to be at relieving our stress and anxiety, that there are still folks who smoke by lighting one cigarette from the butt of another, who personally observe events, and then make up their minds. She'd spent a lot of time watching large birds swoop to pick off smaller ones at the feeder one by one, and thought that public life, either in business or government, must be pretty much the same as that. At least, I thought, she didn't rely upon the press to be informed. In fact, whenever she'd see TV images of bombs bursting in the air of Iraq, she'd said, "See? Those are the seeds of democracy being planted." She'd call the green of night-vision lenses the green thumb of liberty. And I never knew exactly how much irony to give her credit for. "Extremity at the edge of terror"—her last words on the subject. Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 08:38:48 -0500 Reply-To: ": : : BlazeVOX : : :" Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ": : : BlazeVOX : : :" Subject: Won't you please come to Chicago Just to sing Comments: To: Pelton Ted Comments: cc: ImitaPo Memebers , Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics , screenburn@yahoogroups.com, UB Core Poetics Poetics Seminar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SEE YOU AT AWP=20 Chicago=20 Though your brother's bound and gagged=20 And they've chained him to a chair=20 Won't you please come to Chicago=20 Just to sing=20 In a land that's known as freedom=20 How can such a thing be fair=20 Won't you please come to Chicago=20 For the help that we can bring=20 We can change the world=20 Re-arrange the world=20 It's dying ... to get better=20 Politicians sit yourself down=20 There's nothing for you here=20 Won't you please come to Chicago=20 For a ride=20 Don't ask Jack to help you=20 'Cause he'll turn the other ear=20 Won't you please come to Chicago=20 Or else join the other side=20 We can change the world=20 Re-arrange the world=20 It's dying ... if you believe in justice=20 It's dying ... and if you believe in freedom=20 It's dying ... let a man live his own life=20 It's dying ... rules and regulations, who needs them=20 Open up the door=20 Somehow people must be free=20 I hope the day comes soon=20 Won't you please come to Chicago=20 Show your face=20 From the bottum of the ocean=20 To the mountains on the moon=20 Won't you please come to Chicago=20 No one else can take your place=20 by Graham Nash=20 B l a z e VOX U P D A T E : =20 New Work & BlazeVOX [books]=20 New Works: http://www.blazevox.org=20 Kent Johnson=20 + Poem Upon a Typo Found in an Interview of Kenneth Koch,=20 Conducted by David Shapiro -- a new flash poem + A Sentence for Aaron Belz -- a new poem =20 Michael Kelleher=20 To Be Sung -- a new ebook =20 sheila e. murphy pressure on the spine her spine your spine my spine -- a new ebook mIEKAL aND=20 Truth Squeal Vacuum -- a new ebook =20 BlazeVOX [books] http://www.cafeshops.com/blazevox=20 =20 Brand New and still in the Box: Welcome to BlazeVOX [books] This is = Publishing House of the BlazeVOX.org/ We are pleased to bring you the = finest in international post avant poetry and digital writings. The = editorial board currently includes Ezra Pound, Wallace Steven, Emily = Dickinson, Geoffrey Gatza, Kent Johnson, Alan Sondheim, Ted Pelton and = P. B. Gelly.=20 =20 =20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 09:17:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Ferrini's film project on Olson Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Below an article from the paper _North Shore_ on film-makewr henry Ferrini's efforts to make a movie about Charles Olson. here's also ferrini's website (I like his "Lowell Blues" doc on Kerouac's town): www.ferriniproductions.com. -- Pierre His place in history By Dinah Cardin Friday, March 19, 2004 He was one of the most influential poets of the last century, and Gloucester was his main muse. Now, a filmmaker wants to make sure Charles Olson's legacy lives on in his hometown. A cast of characters far from whom you would expect to see actually dirty dancing, much less at a movie about the act, recently turned up for a premiere screening of "Dirty Dancing: Havana Nights" at Lowe's Liberty Tree Mall Cinema in Danvers. The crowd appeared middle aged, educated, quite socially conscious ... oh, and was there to shell out $30 a head to support a documentary film about a poet. OK. That's more like it. The sneak peak at the new dancing movie (sans Jennifer Grey) produced by Gloucester's Sarah Green, who also produced "Frida" and "State and Main," was to help her good friend, Gloucester filmmaker Henry Ferrini, with his latest project, "Poet & The City," a film about poet Charles Olson and his connection to Gloucester. Though Olson was one of the key literary figures of the last century, Ferinni says he is hardly known in his beloved Gloucester. Olson, who died in 1970, had a real interest in a sense of place -the focus of many of Ferrini's films. Olson seemed to "change the landscape," Ferrini says, with his writing. His masterpiece, "The Maximus Poems," is all about Gloucester: "The geography which leans in on me, I compel backwards I compel Gloucester to yield, to change." National Public Radio called his epic piece one of the top 15 poems of the 20th century. Educated at Wesleyan and Harvard, Olson's work inspired other great poets of the '60s, such as Allen Ginsberg, and though he wasn't exactly in New York or jotting his impressions of trips cross-country, they called him "the big fire source." Though it often takes a dictionary and encyclopedia on hand to understand much of his work (an accompanying guide to the "Maximus Poems" is 800 pages), it is important that the people of Gloucester come to appreciate it, says Ferrini. One of his greatest achievements was his research and writing about Herman Melville. Olson was able to collect 100 of the original volumes that had been dispersed from Melville's library, and in deciphering his scribblings from the margins was able to put together a whole new look at Melville's thinking behind "Moby Dick," particularly evident to Olson in Melville's notes on Shakespeare. From this came Olson's work, "Call Me Ismael." "Only poets sort of understood him. He was a language guy and you need a couple of Phds to understand him. The connection with Olson for me is he's such a large character in this town that nobody knows anything about, and I find that to be really intriguing," says Ferrini. "I know a heck of a lot more than a lot of people in this town. But I'm still learning a lot. I want to make him accessible. I'm hoping to create a window so the viewer can get a sense of what he was about and a sense of how he interacts with the place. Gloucester was a major force in his writing. If I can make a film half as exciting as some of his poems, I'm doing OK." To help create that window, the film will include sometimes very intimate audio recordings and films of Olson reading his work. Ferrini is nephew to Gloucester's poet laureate, Vincent Ferrini, who was friendly with Olson. In 1957, after a long hiatus away, Olson wrote to Vincent Ferrini from his new apartment at Fort Square: "I return to the city and my first thought, Ferrini, is of you who for so long has been my body here and I a shadow coming in like gullsh-." Back to school Olson was trained as a scholar and taught at Harvard in the '30s. He gave John F. Kennedy a C in his class, remarking he hadn't yet learned to express himself. In addition to being an academic, Olson also had a political career. After Harvard, he went to work for the office of war information as an analyst and had a high office in the Democratic Party. He was considered for the position of postmaster general before working as a New Dealer during the FDR administration. He later served as rector at the radical experimental Black Mountain College in North Carolina. When the college folded, he came back to Gloucester to complete his epic work before he died of liver cancer at the age of 59. Ferrini often finds himself on projects about writers and poets. He paid tribute to his uncle in "Poem in Action," and in 2000 released "Lowell Blues," a film about the blue-collar city seen through the eyes of its most famous beat poet. True to Jack Kerouac, he included an original spicy jazz score and readings from several powerful voices, including Johnny Depp. The filmmaker is working with Gloucester educators so that the Olson piece may one day be as useful a teaching tool to the community's children as "Lowell Blues" has been to the children of Lowell, so that young students may truly understand the legend others will be associating with their hometown for the rest of their lives. He has already received a grant from the Essex National Heritage Commission to help create the teacher's companion to the Olson film. "Maybe some kids read some Kerouac, but now every one of them gets a taste," says Ferrini. "I'm sure in 50 years it would still be used if there's a teacher who is interested in poetry and how poetry informs the places where we live. And that's also why Gloucester people realize that Olson is an untapped treasure and resource and one that really needs addressing. It will have a broad-based public television airing, but its real evergreen use will be at the Gloucester High School." Read it by reading There are definitely those who would like to see this film completed. Olson's son, Charles Peter, lives in Gloucester, and so do many of the members of the recently formed Charles Olson Society, created in conjunction with the international version in British Columbia, to form awareness of the poet's life and work. The society considers fund raising for the film and seeing its completion its top priority. The film is going to do two very important things, says Peter Anastas of the Olson Society. "It's going to show people who Olson was and what his contribution was to American literature, but it's also going to show how you live in your own place," he says. "What does it mean to love the place you live in, to make your life in it - the importance of place in all of our lives. It goes right back to the founding of America, Plymouth, Gloucester, Salem. They were extremely important to the people who founded them." Anastis agrees that Olson is a "difficult" poet, but says the writer, whose defense was simply that that was the way his mind worked, teaches us how to read him. "If you jump into the poetry and stay with it, you will learn how the poetry works. You don't have to start at the beginning. You can jump into the "Maximus Poems" anywhere. You can go forward. You can go back," says Anastis. "You learn to read Olson by reading it. The personal is there, the historical is there, there's geography there and it all comes together as kind of a mosaic and that's how Olson wrote." Though he stood 6-foot-8 and weighed 265 pounds, perhaps it was his desire and ability to live as a real resident of the town that made Olson's achievements slip beneath the radar. "(Gloucester residents) should know that a major American poet lived in their midst a very ordinary life, going to the store, going to the post office, walking in the streets," says Anastas. "An absolutely major American poet lived in their midst," he stresses. "He was like the conscience of Gloucester, writing letters to the editor about saving this and not letting that go, about understanding the importance of Gloucester and saving the wetlands." Of course, Olson hated writers' societies and blasted the Herman Melville Society in 1951 when it invited him to join its members in celebrating the 100th anniversary of "Moby Dick." "It's extremely ironic that we have founded the Charles Olson Society when Olson hated the Herman Melville Society," says Anastis. Yet, the Melville Society, Olson believed, was comprised of teachers and scholars who were using Melville to advance their careers. The Olson Society is not an academic society, but rather to help people understand what Olson was about and bring poetry into their lives. And not just Olson's poetry, says Anastis, but all poetry. "It's really to try to help people understand the importance of Olson and the relevance of his ideas," he says, listing among them the dangers of greed, concern for the environment, historical preservation and remaining connected to one's home and history. "And those ideas are extremely important today." 'Dirty' money Ferrini was always making plans to do a film about Olson. The interviews got jumpstarted back in 1995 when several admirers and colleagues were in town to speak on the poet during the Charles Olson Festival in July of that year. Ferrini got out his camera and began gathering the stories right there. But despite the recent surge in interest for poetry, with slams and readings and even the popularity of online publishing of one's own verse, Ferrini has been on a rocky journey to fund this project. He found that doing the award-winning Jack Kerouac thing, now seen in about 15 countries, didn't hurt. Still, the filmmaker laments that the ever-popular Kerouac contemporary Ginsberg is no longer around to make his contribution to the documentary. "He was a close friend," Ferrini says. "I think if I had him in the can it would have been a lot easier to get the film made." Still, using television and film is a wonderful way to grow the audience for poetry, he says. He walked away with about $6,500 from the "Dirty Dancing" screening benefit, and hopes to complete the film, currently still in production, by April 2005 to premiere it at the Cape Ann Historical Museum in Gloucester for National Poetry Month. With many films under his belt, Ferinni is used to this routine of working on the good stuff while the funding is there, even with occasional help from research assistants when the money holds out, and then setting them aside to do commercial work to pay the bills. In 1990, he completed a film called "Radio Fishtown" about Simon Geller, Gloucester's stubborn, eccentric and beloved resident, who was the last one-man radio operation in the country, until it was bought out by WBOQ. The film won Bravo's Hometown Video Award for Documentary Film by a Media Professional and was broadcast on PBS affiliate WGBH. He also made "Witch City," on one community's insistence on cashing in on the events of 1692, as "a cautionary tale of what happens when history is distorted by both merchants and would-be prophets." As for the recent fund-raiser's odd pairing of commercial vehicle and documentary film, Ferrini says he's simply grateful. "It's great, because the pieces are so diametrically opposed," he says. "It's sort of the ying and yang of the movie scene. That's sort of the beauty of it. There's nothing that connects it except that Sarah Green wanted to support a filmmaker whose work she believes in." E-mail reporter Dinah Cardin at dcardin@cnc.com. http://www.townonline.com/lynnfield/news/local_regional/ nss_artnspoetfilm03192004.htm ___________________________________________________________ In philosophical terms, human liberty is the basic question of art. -- Joseph Beuys ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 09:26:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Chicago 26-28 March schedule Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Here are some events I'm involved in, on or about the Chicago premises=20= of the AWP conference. Hope to see some of you there -- Pierre. =A0 Friday 26, 10:30 - 11:15 (F- 209 Parlor G 6th Floor) F209=97What Does=20 Translation Give the Poet? Khaled Mattawa, Annie Finch, Pierre Joris,=20 Tony Barnstone. Poet-translators discuss the links between their=20 writing and translation. Panelists will reflect on why they began=20 translating, how their approaches to translation have changed, and if=20 these changes influenced or were influenced by their original texts.=20 They will also discuss the changes in their writing/translation=20 techniques that were necessary to render foreign texts into English.=20 Panelists using intertextual techniques will inform on writing=20 strategies where translation is central to the creation of original=20 text. Friday 26, 1-2:15 pm: F104=97Antonin Artaud=92s =93Poetics of Cruelty=94= for=20 Contemporary Writers. Jamerson Maurer, Clayton Eshleman, Judith E.=20 Johnson, Pierre Joris, Kazim Ali . Antonin Artaud remains an extremely=20= marginalized figure of Modernism. His theories on a Theater of Cruelty,=20= his poetry, and his performance art attempted to release the =93shadows=94= =20 of life, and destroy the effigies causing the ills of society. The=20 panel will discuss Artaud from many points of view=97translation,=20 performance art, poetics, modern-day influence, and the critical &=20 theoretical discourse on his work=97and propose that contemporary = writers=20 find strong transformative values in his poetics. Friday 26, 7:30 p.m.: Poetry Reading organized by Circumference=20 magazine to protest the fact that =93the U.S. Treasury Department's=20 Office of Foreign Assets Control recently declared that American=20 publishers cannot edit works authored in nations under trade embargoes=20= which include Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Libya and Cuba.=94 Delilah=92s Bar, = 2771=20 North Lincoln Avenue. With: Jen Hofer, Pierre Joris, and Matthew Zapruder reading their=20 translations of poems, as well as poems in the original languages. Christine Hume will read her homophonic translation featured in the=20 first issue of Circumference. Saturday 27, 9 p.m: "Discrete Series" Poetry Reading at 3030 West=20 Cortland. Jen Hofer, Cole Swensen, Ray Bianchi, Dan Machlin & Pierre=20 Joris. =A0 ___________________________________________________________ In philosophical terms, human liberty is the basic question of art. -- =20= Joseph Beuys ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place =09 Albany NY 12202 =09 h: 518 426 0433 =09 c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 =09= email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 14:45:43 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Jabes and the Zohar Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Haven't read Jabes in years, but when I did I was reading the Zohar at the same time and it's all there--esp. in the first books--the meditations of the word and the book and the word in the book and the destiny of the readers of the book. Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 09:11:56 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Won't you please come to Chicago Just to sing Comments: To: ": : : BlazeVOX : : :" In-Reply-To: <01a001c40f49$d7770fb0$945ca145@white2pimprza3> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Loving Chicago is like loving a woman with a broken nose" Nelson Algren Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetrycalendar.blogspot.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of : : : BlazeVOX : : : > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 7:39 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Won't you please come to Chicago Just to sing > > > SEE YOU AT AWP > > > > Chicago > > Though your brother's bound and gagged > And they've chained him to a chair > Won't you please come to Chicago > Just to sing > > In a land that's known as freedom > How can such a thing be fair > Won't you please come to Chicago > For the help that we can bring > > We can change the world > Re-arrange the world > It's dying ... to get better > > Politicians sit yourself down > There's nothing for you here > Won't you please come to Chicago > For a ride > > Don't ask Jack to help you > 'Cause he'll turn the other ear > Won't you please come to Chicago > Or else join the other side > > We can change the world > Re-arrange the world > It's dying ... if you believe in justice > It's dying ... and if you believe in freedom > It's dying ... let a man live his own life > It's dying ... rules and regulations, who needs them > Open up the door > > Somehow people must be free > I hope the day comes soon > Won't you please come to Chicago > Show your face > > From the bottum of the ocean > To the mountains on the moon > Won't you please come to Chicago > No one else can take your place > > > by Graham Nash > > > B l a z e VOX U P D A T E : > New Work & BlazeVOX [books] > > > New Works: http://www.blazevox.org > > > Kent Johnson > > + Poem Upon a Typo Found in an Interview of Kenneth Koch, > Conducted by David Shapiro -- a new flash poem > > + A Sentence for Aaron Belz -- a new poem > > > > Michael Kelleher > > To Be Sung -- a new ebook > > sheila e. murphy > > pressure on the spine her spine your spine my spine -- a new ebook > > > > mIEKAL aND > > Truth Squeal Vacuum -- a new ebook > > > > BlazeVOX [books] http://www.cafeshops.com/blazevox > > > > Brand New and still in the Box: Welcome to BlazeVOX [books] This > is Publishing House of the BlazeVOX.org/ We are pleased to bring > you the finest in international post avant poetry and digital > writings. The editorial board currently includes Ezra Pound, > Wallace Steven, Emily Dickinson, Geoffrey Gatza, Kent Johnson, > Alan Sondheim, Ted Pelton and P. B. Gelly. > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 10:17:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Won't you please come to Chicago Just to sing In-Reply-To: <000001c40f56$d9882980$1c290e18@attbi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chicago--Blog Butcher for the World. Hal { "Loving Chicago is like loving a woman with a broken nose" Nelson Algren { { Raymond L Bianchi { chicagopostmodernpoetrycalendar.blogspot.com/ { collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ { { > -----Original Message----- { > From: UB Poetics discussion group { > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of : : : BlazeVOX : : : { > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 7:39 AM { > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU { > Subject: Won't you please come to Chicago Just to sing { > { > { > SEE YOU AT AWP { > { > { > { > Chicago { > { > Though your brother's bound and gagged { > And they've chained him to a chair { > Won't you please come to Chicago { > Just to sing { > { > In a land that's known as freedom { > How can such a thing be fair { > Won't you please come to Chicago { > For the help that we can bring { > { > We can change the world { > Re-arrange the world { > It's dying ... to get better { > { > Politicians sit yourself down { > There's nothing for you here { > Won't you please come to Chicago { > For a ride { > { > Don't ask Jack to help you { > 'Cause he'll turn the other ear { > Won't you please come to Chicago { > Or else join the other side { > { > We can change the world { > Re-arrange the world { > It's dying ... if you believe in justice { > It's dying ... and if you believe in freedom { > It's dying ... let a man live his own life { > It's dying ... rules and regulations, who needs them { > Open up the door { > { > Somehow people must be free { > I hope the day comes soon { > Won't you please come to Chicago { > Show your face { > { > From the bottum of the ocean { > To the mountains on the moon { > Won't you please come to Chicago { > No one else can take your place { > { > { > by Graham Nash { > { > { > B l a z e VOX U P D A T E : { > New Work & BlazeVOX [books] { > { > { > New Works: http://www.blazevox.org { > { > { > Kent Johnson { > { > + Poem Upon a Typo Found in an Interview of Kenneth Koch, { > Conducted by David Shapiro -- a new flash poem { > { > + A Sentence for Aaron Belz -- a new poem { > { > { > { > Michael Kelleher { > { > To Be Sung -- a new ebook { > { > sheila e. murphy { > { > pressure on the spine her spine your spine my spine -- a new ebook { > { > { > { > mIEKAL aND { > { > Truth Squeal Vacuum -- a new ebook { > { > { > { > BlazeVOX [books] http://www.cafeshops.com/blazevox { > { > { > { > Brand New and still in the Box: Welcome to BlazeVOX [books] This { > is Publishing House of the BlazeVOX.org/ We are pleased to bring { > you the finest in international post avant poetry and digital { > writings. The editorial board currently includes Ezra Pound, { > Wallace Steven, Emily Dickinson, Geoffrey Gatza, Kent Johnson, { > Alan Sondheim, Ted Pelton and P. B. Gelly. { > { > { > { > { > { > { > { ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 10:47:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: Jabes and the Zohar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Seems, also, to be there within The Book of The Margin. > Haven't read Jabes in years, but when I did I was reading the Zohar at the > same time and it's all there--esp. in the first books--the meditations of > the word and the book and the word in the book and the destiny of the > readers of the book. Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 07:51:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "D. Ross Priddle" Subject: struck by a van (for august highland) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII "One must choose between being a terrorist and being an egoist" Barthes spare, "gains", a matrix of activity, the green line, overdraw, air core, brite, a non, solidemes, concrete haiku, micromelismata, trance to zero, evolving list, stress rating things, worstday, the problem of others, is it anything, microideas, cracked or broken cabinets, near nuff, one per sun, can, we need more whacked, with an eye open to, expanding chain of heuristic, hypermetro, still in the centre, saying is meaning, demand of the text, erase nothing, what philossifer?, small enough, e-scribe, text-on-hand, the total burn, reading the unreadable, give the ink a minute to dry, -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 10:56:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pelton Ted Subject: Re: Won't you please come to Chicago Just to sing Comments: To: ": : : BlazeVOX : : :" Comments: cc: ImitaPo Memebers , Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics , screenburn@yahoogroups.com, UB Core Poetics Poetics Seminar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In this vein, Starcherone Books is pleased to announce the = pre-publication reading for its 2003 contest winner, Aimee Parkison, to = take place at the Webdelsol Reading, Thursday night, 7pm, at Rain Dog = Cafe, 408 S. Michigan, a few blocks from the Palmer House Hilton. Parkison will read for 5 minutes along with a host of poets and prose = writers at a reading organized by Michael Neff and Webdelsol. Also = among the readers will be Starcherone founder and Exec Director Ted = Pelton. Won't you please come.... Visit Starcherone/BlazeVox also at the = Starcherone Books/Slope Editions table at the AWP Book Fair, Thursday = thru Saturday. For more info on participant-----Original Message----- From: : : : BlazeVOX : : : [mailto:editor@blazevox.org] Sent: Sun 3/21/2004 8:38 AM To: Pelton Ted Cc: ImitaPo Memebers; Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating = to poetry and poetics; screenburn@yahoogroups.com; UB = Poetics discussion group; UB Core Poetics Poetics Seminar Subject: Won't you please come to Chicago Just to sing=20 SEE YOU AT AWP=20 Chicago=20 Though your brother's bound and gagged=20 And they've chained him to a chair=20 Won't you please come to Chicago=20 Just to sing=20 In a land that's known as freedom=20 How can such a thing be fair=20 Won't you please come to Chicago=20 For the help that we can bring=20 We can change the world=20 Re-arrange the world=20 It's dying ... to get better=20 Politicians sit yourself down=20 There's nothing for you here=20 Won't you please come to Chicago=20 For a ride=20 Don't ask Jack to help you=20 'Cause he'll turn the other ear=20 Won't you please come to Chicago=20 Or else join the other side=20 We can change the world=20 Re-arrange the world=20 It's dying ... if you believe in justice=20 It's dying ... and if you believe in freedom=20 It's dying ... let a man live his own life=20 It's dying ... rules and regulations, who needs them=20 Open up the door=20 Somehow people must be free=20 I hope the day comes soon=20 Won't you please come to Chicago=20 Show your face=20 From the bottum of the ocean=20 To the mountains on the moon=20 Won't you please come to Chicago=20 No one else can take your place=20 by Graham Nash=20 B l a z e VOX U P D A T E : =20 New Work & BlazeVOX [books]=20 New Works: http://www.blazevox.org=20 Kent Johnson=20 + Poem Upon a Typo Found in an Interview of Kenneth Koch,=20 Conducted by David Shapiro -- a new flash poem + A Sentence for Aaron Belz -- a new poem =20 Michael Kelleher=20 To Be Sung -- a new ebook =20 sheila e. murphy pressure on the spine her spine your spine my spine -- a new ebook mIEKAL aND=20 Truth Squeal Vacuum -- a new ebook =20 BlazeVOX [books] http://www.cafeshops.com/blazevox=20 =20 Brand New and still in the Box: Welcome to BlazeVOX [books] This is = Publishing House of the BlazeVOX.org/ We are pleased to bring you the = finest in international post avant poetry and digital writings. The = editorial board currently includes Ezra Pound, Wallace Steven, Emily = Dickinson, Geoffrey Gatza, Kent Johnson, Alan Sondheim, Ted Pelton and = P. B. Gelly.=20 =20 =20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:33:21 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: caught on video: Rumsfeld MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld caught on national TV trying to deny that he ever said Iraq was an "imminent threat": http://www.moveon.org/censure/caughtonvideo/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 10:55:52 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kerri Sonnenberg Subject: Re: Chicago 26-28 March schedule In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Saturday March 27's Discrete Series event begins at *7 p.m.*- full announcement coming shortly! on 3/21/04 8:26 AM, Pierre Joris at joris@ALBANY.EDU wrote: > Here are some events I'm involved in, on or about the Chicago premises > of the AWP conference. Hope to see some of you there -- Pierre. >=20 > =A0 > Friday 26, 10:30 - 11:15 (F- 209 Parlor G 6th Floor) F209=8BWhat Does > Translation Give the Poet? Khaled Mattawa, Annie Finch, Pierre Joris, > Tony Barnstone. Poet-translators discuss the links between their > writing and translation. Panelists will reflect on why they began > translating, how their approaches to translation have changed, and if > these changes influenced or were influenced by their original texts. > They will also discuss the changes in their writing/translation > techniques that were necessary to render foreign texts into English. > Panelists using intertextual techniques will inform on writing > strategies where translation is central to the creation of original > text. >=20 >=20 > Friday 26, 1-2:15 pm: F104=8BAntonin Artaud=B9s =B3Poetics of Cruelty=B2 for > Contemporary Writers. Jamerson Maurer, Clayton Eshleman, Judith E. > Johnson, Pierre Joris, Kazim Ali . Antonin Artaud remains an extremely > marginalized figure of Modernism. His theories on a Theater of Cruelty, > his poetry, and his performance art attempted to release the =B3shadows=B2 > of life, and destroy the effigies causing the ills of society. The > panel will discuss Artaud from many points of view=8Btranslation, > performance art, poetics, modern-day influence, and the critical & > theoretical discourse on his work=8Band propose that contemporary writers > find strong transformative values in his poetics. >=20 >=20 > Friday 26, 7:30 p.m.: Poetry Reading organized by Circumference > magazine to protest the fact that =B3the U.S. Treasury Department's > Office of Foreign Assets Control recently declared that American > publishers cannot edit works authored in nations under trade embargoes > which include Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Libya and Cuba.=B2 Delilah=B9s Bar, 2771 > North Lincoln Avenue. > With: Jen Hofer, Pierre Joris, and Matthew Zapruder reading their > translations of poems, as well as poems in the original languages. > Christine Hume will read her homophonic translation featured in the > first issue of Circumference. >=20 >=20 > Saturday 27, 9 p.m: "Discrete Series" Poetry Reading at 3030 West > Cortland. Jen Hofer, Cole Swensen, Ray Bianchi, Dan Machlin & Pierre > Joris. >=20 > =A0 > ___________________________________________________________ >=20 > In philosophical terms, human liberty is the basic question of art. -- > Joseph Beuys > ___________________________________________________________ > Pierre Joris > 6 Madison Place =20 > Albany NY 12202 =20 > h: 518 426 0433 =20 > c: 518 225 7123 =20 > o: 518 442 40 85=20 > email: joris@albany.edu > http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ > ____________________________________________________________ >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 11:46:43 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Won't you please come to Chicago Just to sing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Chicago Blog Butcher for the World Stacker of Paper Airline delayer City of the Big Pizza freeze my nose hairs The other soft cities laugh and I say give me two orders of fries with my Italian Beef and I sit on two stools since I am midwestern thick bottom does not fit The other cities may have fashion and power but we have the futility of 178 years without a world series I have seen your painted ladies Chicago Under your five layers of clothes and your hat ánd boots avoiding the icey puddles Chicago Blog Butcher for the world Stacker of paper Airline Delayer City of the Big Pizza Freeze my Nose Hairs Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetrycalendar.blogspot.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 9:18 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Won't you please come to Chicago Just to sing > > > Chicago--Blog Butcher for the World. > > Hal > > { "Loving Chicago is like loving a woman with a broken nose" > Nelson Algren > { > { Raymond L Bianchi > { chicagopostmodernpoetrycalendar.blogspot.com/ > { collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > { > { > -----Original Message----- > { > From: UB Poetics discussion group > { > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of : : : > BlazeVOX : : : > { > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 7:39 AM > { > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > { > Subject: Won't you please come to Chicago Just to sing > { > > { > > { > SEE YOU AT AWP > { > > { > > { > > { > Chicago > { > > { > Though your brother's bound and gagged > { > And they've chained him to a chair > { > Won't you please come to Chicago > { > Just to sing > { > > { > In a land that's known as freedom > { > How can such a thing be fair > { > Won't you please come to Chicago > { > For the help that we can bring > { > > { > We can change the world > { > Re-arrange the world > { > It's dying ... to get better > { > > { > Politicians sit yourself down > { > There's nothing for you here > { > Won't you please come to Chicago > { > For a ride > { > > { > Don't ask Jack to help you > { > 'Cause he'll turn the other ear > { > Won't you please come to Chicago > { > Or else join the other side > { > > { > We can change the world > { > Re-arrange the world > { > It's dying ... if you believe in justice > { > It's dying ... and if you believe in freedom > { > It's dying ... let a man live his own life > { > It's dying ... rules and regulations, who needs them > { > Open up the door > { > > { > Somehow people must be free > { > I hope the day comes soon > { > Won't you please come to Chicago > { > Show your face > { > > { > From the bottum of the ocean > { > To the mountains on the moon > { > Won't you please come to Chicago > { > No one else can take your place > { > > { > > { > by Graham Nash > { > > { > > { > B l a z e VOX U P D A T E : > { > New Work & BlazeVOX [books] > { > > { > > { > New Works: http://www.blazevox.org > { > > { > > { > Kent Johnson > { > > { > + Poem Upon a Typo Found in an Interview of Kenneth Koch, > { > Conducted by David Shapiro -- a new flash poem > { > > { > + A Sentence for Aaron Belz -- a new poem > { > > { > > { > > { > Michael Kelleher > { > > { > To Be Sung -- a new ebook > { > > { > sheila e. murphy > { > > { > pressure on the spine her spine your spine my spine -- a new ebook > { > > { > > { > > { > mIEKAL aND > { > > { > Truth Squeal Vacuum -- a new ebook > { > > { > > { > > { > BlazeVOX [books] http://www.cafeshops.com/blazevox > { > > { > > { > > { > Brand New and still in the Box: Welcome to BlazeVOX [books] This > { > is Publishing House of the BlazeVOX.org/ We are pleased to bring > { > you the finest in international post avant poetry and digital > { > writings. The editorial board currently includes Ezra Pound, > { > Wallace Steven, Emily Dickinson, Geoffrey Gatza, Kent Johnson, > { > Alan Sondheim, Ted Pelton and P. B. Gelly. > { > > { > > { > > { > > { > > { > > { > > { > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:19:07 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: awp panel F103... Comments: cc: A Kass Fleisher Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" we'll all be trying very hard here to keep our presentations to 7 minutes (or less) apiece, which should (should) provide lots of room for q & a... i know it's early in the am, but hey, come one, come all... best, joe ********************** Friday 26 March 9:00 AM Palmer House Hilton Parlor B, 6th Floor AWP Panel F103 The Reappearance of the Aesthetic Panelists: Kass Fleisher, Joe Amato, Christina Milletti, Dimitri Anastasopoulos, Cole Swensen, Steve Tomasula We'll consider the reemergence of the (literary) aesthetic hinted at in a ~Critical Inquiry~ colloquium that received the unfavorable attention of ~The New York Times~. This colloquium of noted scholars began with a call for statements "suggesting" that "the major challenge for the humanities in the coming century will be to determine the fate of literature and to secure some space for the aesthetic in the face of the overwhelming forces of mass culture and commercial entertainment." We hope to speculate on the form and substance of this "space" of aesthetic practice. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 10:29:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: full page review of Peter Gizzi's new book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit in today's LA Times A delicate balance Reviewed by John Palattella 'Some Values of Landscape and Weather' Peter Gizzi; Wesleyan University Press: 110 pp., $28 pretty amazing; two weeks ago, there was a full page review of John Kinsella's New & Selected... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:58:17 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Heidi Peppermint Subject: AWP event--reading and gala event MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear UB Poetics list subscribers, You're invited to a reading and gala event hosted by _Potion_ at Gallery 312 at 312 N. May Street, Chicago on March 26th, Friday night from 9pm-12am during the AWP conference. Readings, performances and publishers' tables are included in the activiites. Admission is free, and refreshments will be available with a full-service bar. Folks from _32 poems_, _Mayapple press_, _Nearsouth_, _Painted Bride Quarterly_, _Parakeet_, _Potion_, _Samizdat_, _Slope Editions_ and _Unpleasant Event Schedule_, among others, will be present. Should be fun! For more information, please visit www.potionmag.org Hope to see you there! Chrs, Heidi Peppermint Ed. Parakeet 115 Roosevelt Avenue Syracuse, New York 13210 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 15:58:21 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: slander MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Sina, I have a pretty full list of problems -- here's two: 1. what is the nature of the educational institution? (in early 19th ce= ntury America they were all turning out priests for the priesthood -- eve= n Harvard was doing this) What are we doing now? As the Christian parad= igm disappears from our institutions and the postmodernism paradigm fills= this void, what is it filling it with? If desire, and willfulness, then= nothing can be critiqued, and there is no responsibility for anything (N= ietzsche was already making this claim along with his death of God bit). = What happens to the weak in this process -- the young, the poor, the chi= ldren, those who are not geniuses? 2. The role of the instructor? Without responsibility, what is he or sh= e doing? If there's a responsibility -- to whom and what? There seem to= only be selves, now, and nothing transcendent -- family is a joke, count= ry is a joke, God is a joke. There is race, gender, and class. Rather d= ivisive categories, that assume that war on the mainstream is a good thin= g. Once they win, then what? Camps? Then what? (Ginsberg I think that provided a dangerous model. He was hellbent on hi= s own pleasure seeking, and as he told Norman Podhoretz -- we will get yo= u through your children! I was too young to understand the history of wh= at he was doing when I came across him. I felt personally devastated by= him, and was terrified of him -- he had tremendous charisma, and not muc= h concern for the weaker people in his presence. I think in general olde= r geniuses should be aware of how weak their students are -- and I think = the model should be neighborliness, rather than willfull selfishness) So yeah, in a clumsy way, I'm trying to talk about the things that you me= ntioned, but the only way I can find to discuss them is to leave the post= modern model and revert to the Lutheran model of my childhood. I don't h= ave any other vocabulary, and my vocabulary is infantile -- prodigal son = that I am in that tradition. -- Kirby Sina Queyras wrote: > Thanks for the insightful posts regarding slander, Naropa and Ginsberg.= As someone who teaches in a university setting I'm particularly aware of= the eros between instructor/student. And I feel very strongly that this = is a power relationship, one that should never be tampered with. I know t= hat Ginsberg was a bit of a prowler--he spoke pretty openly about that an= d it's a part of him I find disturbing. Pema Chodron also speaks about Tr= ungpa Rimpoche and his sexual exploits--I know there are no sacred cows. = I suppose what I was reacting to was the aloof manner in which the commen= ts about Ginsberg were offered--the lack of context. The issue is large a= nd complicated and I respect trying to open up that dialogue in some way.= I guess I also question the intent of posting like that. I mean was this= meant to just diss Ginsberg, or to start a discussion about why the acad= emy, for all of it's sexual harassment savvy, seems to still feel like it= 's fine to have professors having affairs with students, because that wou= ld be useful. To be honest, I find it baffling. > > > > Sina ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 14:37:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Mayakovsky, Beats, 2004 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Allen Ginsberg draws attention to the collusion between "mass communication" and conformist opinion in 1959 in his Independence Day Manifesto. Perhaps it's difficult for some on this listserv today to imagine mainstream America as the rightwing aparat that some believe it has become, and that it was, for Ginsberg, in this manifesto, through Fall of America, etc. It makes sense that it is difficult to think so, unfortunately. I don't know if my tongue is supposed to be in my cheek or not as I write this. Anyway, Ginsberg, el Beat, was as a poet in a tiny minority on this point of mass conspiracy. When he writes of this as "mass conspiracy," he healthily keeps his humor intact it would seem to me, but he also displays all seriousness of conviction. (I'm grateful to Tim Yu who renewed my attention to this Ginsberg piece somewhile ago in a different context, the first collected in Deliberate Prose.) George Lakoff and cohorts attempt to address the scope of mainstream America's rightist swing, in terms of its effects on language and politics, at the Rockridge Institute http://www.rockridgeinstitute.org/. And recently the journalist Jerry Landay has attempted to disclose the extent the USA has become a corporate-driven one-party state, in the essay, "The Apparat" http://www.mediatransparency.com/stories/apparat.html, detailing the concerted funding of rightwing thinktanks, AM radio stations, tv opinion makers, lobbyists, etc etc, since the early 1970s on. And this is just within the terms of "liberal" versus "neoconservative"!! Believe it or not, I think this has to do with poetry. Feeling "bad" about supporting poetry, Kirby, would be a truly sad day (although I don't know what you mean by "support"). By focussing on religion and sex as you have - but, 72% of Americans, the believing Christians, would approve of such admirable mainstream retraint of focus, I'm sure! - you seem to have overlooked what Herodotus may have too idly called history, and the location of poetry and language - and you - in it. (Personal anecdotes, and the question of sexual harrassment in the academy -- these are separate threads to me, here.) Anyway, I love the Corso poem that you posted the other day. Thanks Stephen for the beautiful Whalen excerpt, too, and Pierre for the news about that other Olson, etc. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 17:06:03 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Mayakovsky, Beats, 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Louis, here's a quick reply and not a very sound one -- I still support poetry itself, but I wonder if I should have looked much further than the Beats. I love Corso's poetry, but what if I had worked on Edwin Arlington Robinson -- is that his name? I have spent so much time on fashionable figures stemming from surrealism. I'm quite curious now to see what other histories/perspectives are available. What is Ted Kooser up to? I wonder what other windows I should open on America before it's lights out at least for this reader. George Lakoff was on channel 39 the other night with Tina Brown (ex-editor of the New Yorker). She has a neat show. Very good academics come on but only for one or two minutes, and present a tasty little idea, and then she cuts to a commercial. Lakoff said that the Democrats are matriarchal, and the Republicans are patriarchal. He was quite neutral about this. He said that people vote Democratic when it seems that they feel safe, because matriarchy promotes a feeling of compassion and caretaking. People vote Republican when they feel scared, because patriarchy promotes a sense that a powerful father will take care of you, and everything will tighten up. All I could think was that the people in Spain voted opposite to his theory. They got a train blown up and voted for their version of the Democrats, although Lakoff's theory should have had them voting for their strong man. Lakoff's theory is no doubt a lot more complicated, but it was fun to see him as he's been mentioned on the list a number of times. I'm sorry I don't know what channel 39 is. After Tina's show, Dennis Miller comes on with his dream team that includes David Horowitz and some others. That show is not as good as Tina Brown's because she gets more surprising guests on, and they aren't always the same. Louis, I wish I knew what you meant by Herodotus' theory of history, but am very glad you liked the Corso poem. It's always been one of my favorites. For some reason, nobody ever mentions that one among his top poems, and it isn't in the Collected from Thunder's Mouth. Did you love the sound in it? The imagery has a very interesting "structure of feeling" to borrow a phrase that I remember from my reading of Raymond Williams -- it goes from depression to joy, and uses very subtle alchemical imagery to create an almost subconscious structure. -- Kirby Olson Louis Cabri wrote: > Allen Ginsberg draws attention to the collusion between "mass communication" > and conformist opinion in 1959 in his Independence Day Manifesto. Perhaps > it's difficult for some on this listserv today to imagine mainstream America > as the rightwing aparat that some believe it has become, and that it was, > for Ginsberg, in this manifesto, through Fall of America, etc. It makes > sense that it is difficult to think so, unfortunately. I don't know if my > tongue is supposed to be in my cheek or not as I write this. Anyway, > Ginsberg, el Beat, was as a poet in a tiny minority on this point of mass > conspiracy. When he writes of this as "mass conspiracy," he healthily keeps > his humor intact it would seem to me, but he also displays all seriousness > of conviction. (I'm grateful to Tim Yu who renewed my attention to this > Ginsberg piece somewhile ago in a different context, the first collected in > Deliberate Prose.) > > George Lakoff and cohorts attempt to address the scope of mainstream > America's rightist swing, in terms of its effects on language and politics, > at the Rockridge Institute http://www.rockridgeinstitute.org/. And recently > the journalist Jerry Landay has attempted to disclose the extent the USA has > become a corporate-driven one-party state, in the essay, "The Apparat" > http://www.mediatransparency.com/stories/apparat.html, detailing the > concerted funding of rightwing thinktanks, AM radio stations, tv opinion > makers, lobbyists, etc etc, since the early 1970s on. And this is just > within the terms of "liberal" versus "neoconservative"!! > > Believe it or not, I think this has to do with poetry. Feeling "bad" about > supporting poetry, Kirby, would be a truly sad day (although I don't know > what you mean by "support"). By focussing on religion and sex as you have - > but, 72% of Americans, the believing Christians, would approve of such > admirable mainstream retraint of focus, I'm sure! - you seem to have > overlooked what Herodotus may have too idly called history, and the location > of poetry and language - and you - in it. (Personal anecdotes, and the > question of sexual harrassment in the academy -- these are separate threads > to me, here.) Anyway, I love the Corso poem that you posted the other day. > > Thanks Stephen for the beautiful Whalen excerpt, too, and Pierre for the > news about that other Olson, etc. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:12:46 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: Mayakovsky, Beats, 2004 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" responding to louis c's typically elegant post: i despair of the mainstream, i don't despair, i despair, i don't despair, etc... i'm not about to give up on a larger social platform... i don't think you can get there via lutheran theology or by dismissing entire literary movements b/c poet-instructors have sex with their students (do i need to say this here?---but mea culpa, back when i was single, and it's a complex issue of course... derek walcott hardly represents a beat approach to literature, but last time i checked he had serious sexual harassment problems, no?)... will rogers might have said a few things that seem corny, overtly patriotic, too wedded to common sense and the like to suit poets suited to contingency... but he also said Statistics have proven there are twenty five bath tubs sold to every Bible. that is to say, he never forgot about the little guy, who gets bigger and bigger when he joins up with more and more other little guys... oh sure, you got a face in the crowd and alla that too... and it would be presumptuous to think that we're "better" than our elders, even if thinking we can't do better is, in its way, equally presumptuous... the way i see it there's a local and a global issue at stake in "ginsberg"---the man, his values, his immediate effects as a man and the consequences e.g. of his writings... i learned a long time ago not to fall in love with an idol (which has, i hope, nothing whatever to do with the bible)... but there is some justification in observing that, while we continue to wreak extraordinary violence upon our fellow sapiens, the environment, etc.---and may well be tottering on the edge of an apocalypse---the social system, at least here on the north american continent, has by and large also moved ahead a bit... i wouldn't call it progress exactly... no---maybe i would... with regression right alongside... i wouldn't want to live in 1939, 49, 59, 69, 79 , b/c just e.g., the status of ethnic minorities then was a helluvalot worse here in the u.s., and i figure no man is an island, and alla that... i'm speaking generally now (and in fact *my* status was a helluvalot worse e.g. in 1969, class wise, but i'll leave that one alone)... no i don't think the little signs in everyone's lawn here in normal, illinois---"support our troops"---amount to a positive sign of the progressive times... not by a long shot... but the folks in most of those houses, if i may---and i'd bet a substantial sum here---are probably a lot more "enlightened" as to gays and women's issues and minorities (sorry), on the all, than their counterparts were in 1959... there are some aspects of their behaviors and beliefs (please pardon the condescension here as the little jack-boot sociologist pops out of me) that probably leave a lot to be desired, sure... and make me wish, at times, i were someplace else... ditto for my own residual sexisms and racisms (etc.), which make me wish at times i was someone else... but give me another half century, at best, and i'll be six feet under... which is to say, the world moves on... but i think you gotta give some credit to ginsberg and others when you think about public consciousness here in the u.s.---his incremental contribution to the real... which is not to wish away the damage he may have done (like me), by e.g. sleeping not only with the dictionary, but with his students... or b/c his words had unanticipated effects... i'm not suggesting either that to sleep with one's students must be interpreted only in terms of damage done... and i can't see how anyone could read ginsberg's writings in such terms, either (and i say this despite the fact that the beats often provide, for me, a real obstacle to overcome, generally speaking, when i teach creative writing---if you know what i mean, and pace the beats).... which makes me want to ask, as i have so many times on this list, what are we doing here, together? best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 17:24:47 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: A film about Olson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.townonline.com/lynnfield/news/local_regional/nss_artnspoetfil m03192004.htm His place in history By Dinah Cardin Friday, March 19, 2004 He was one of the most influential poets of the last century, and Gloucester was his main muse. Now, a filmmaker wants to make sure Charles Olson's legacy lives on in his hometown. A cast of characters far from whom you would expect to see actually dirty dancing, much less at a movie about the act, recently turned up for a premiere screening of "Dirty Dancing: Havana Nights" at Lowe's Liberty Tree Mall Cinema in Danvers. The crowd appeared middle aged, educated, quite socially conscious ... oh, and was there to shell out $30 a head to support a documentary film about a poet. OK. That's more like it. The sneak peak at the new dancing movie (sans Jennifer Grey) produced by Gloucester's Sarah Green, who also produced "Frida" and "State and Main," was to help her good friend, Gloucester filmmaker Henry Ferrini, with his latest project, "Poet & The City," a film about poet Charles Olson and his connection to Gloucester. Though Olson was one of the key literary figures of the last century, Ferrini says he is hardly known in his beloved Gloucester. Olson, who died in 1970, had a real interest in a sense of place -the focus of many of Ferrini's films. Olson seemed to "change the landscape," Ferrini says, with his writing. His masterpiece, "The Maximus Poems," is all about Gloucester: "The geography which leans in on me, I compel backwards I compel Gloucester to yield, to change." National Public Radio called his epic piece one of the top 15 poems of the 20th century. Educated at Wesleyan and Harvard, Olson's work inspired other great poets of the '60s, such as Allen Ginsberg, and though he wasn't exactly in New York or jotting his impressions of trips cross-country, they called him "the big fire source." Though it often takes a dictionary and encyclopedia on hand to understand much of his work (an accompanying guide to the "Maximus Poems" is 800 pages), it is important that the people of Gloucester come to appreciate it, says Ferrini. One of his greatest achievements was his research and writing about Herman Melville. Olson was able to collect 100 of the original volumes that had been dispersed from Melville's library, and in deciphering his scribblings from the margins was able to put together a whole new look at Melville's thinking behind "Moby Dick," particularly evident to Olson in Melville's notes on Shakespeare. From this came Olson's work, "Call Me Ishmael." "Only poets sort of understood him. He was a language guy and you need a couple of Phds to understand him. The connection with Olson for me is he's such a large character in this town that nobody knows anything about, and I find that to be really intriguing," says Ferrini. "I know a heck of a lot more than a lot of people in this town. But I'm still learning a lot. I want to make him accessible. I'm hoping to create a window so the viewer can get a sense of what he was about and a sense of how he interacts with the place. Gloucester was a major force in his writing. If I can make a film half as exciting as some of his poems, I'm doing OK." To help create that window, the film will include sometimes very intimate audio recordings and films of Olson reading his work. Ferrini is nephew to Gloucester's poet laureate, Vincent Ferrini, who was friendly with Olson. In 1957, after a long hiatus away, Olson wrote to Vincent Ferrini from his new apartment at Fort Square: "I return to the city and my first thought, Ferrini, is of you who for so long has been my body here and I a shadow coming in like gullsh-." Back to school Olson was trained as a scholar and taught at Harvard in the '30s. He gave John F. Kennedy a C in his class, remarking he hadn't yet learned to express himself. In addition to being an academic, Olson also had a political career. After Harvard, he went to work for the office of war information as an analyst and had a high office in the Democratic Party. He was considered for the position of postmaster general before working as a New Dealer during the FDR administration. He later served as rector at the radical experimental Black Mountain College in North Carolina. When the college folded, he came back to Gloucester to complete his epic work before he died of liver cancer at the age of 59. Ferrini often finds himself on projects about writers and poets. He paid tribute to his uncle in "Poem in Action," and in 2000 released "Lowell Blues," a film about the blue-collar city seen through the eyes of its most famous beat poet. True to Jack Kerouac, he included an original spicy jazz score and readings from several powerful voices, including Johnny Depp. The filmmaker is working with Gloucester educators so that the Olson piece may one day be as useful a teaching tool to the community's children as "Lowell Blues" has been to the children of Lowell, so that young students may truly understand the legend others will be associating with their hometown for the rest of their lives. He has already received a grant from the Essex National Heritage Commission to help create the teacher's companion to the Olson film. "Maybe some kids read some Kerouac, but now every one of them gets a taste," says Ferrini. "I'm sure in 50 years it would still be used if there's a teacher who is interested in poetry and how poetry informs the places where we live. And that's also why Gloucester people realize that Olson is an untapped treasure and resource and one that really needs addressing. It will have a broad-based public television airing, but its real evergreen use will be at the Gloucester High School." Read it by reading There are definitely those who would like to see this film completed. Olson's son, Charles Peter, lives in Gloucester, and so do many of the members of the recently formed Charles Olson Society, created in conjunction with the international version in British Columbia, to form awareness of the poet's life and work. The society considers fund raising for the film and seeing its completion its top priority. The film is going to do two very important things, says Peter Anastas of the Olson Society. "It's going to show people who Olson was and what his contribution was to American literature, but it's also going to show how you live in your own place," he says. "What does it mean to love the place you live in, to make your life in it - the importance of place in all of our lives. It goes right back to the founding of America, Plymouth, Gloucester, Salem. They were extremely important to the people who founded them." Anastis agrees that Olson is a "difficult" poet, but says the writer, whose defense was simply that that was the way his mind worked, teaches us how to read him. "If you jump into the poetry and stay with it, you will learn how the poetry works. You don't have to start at the beginning. You can jump into the "Maximus Poems" anywhere. You can go forward. You can go back," says Anastis. "You learn to read Olson by reading it. The personal is there, the historical is there, there's geography there and it all comes together as kind of a mosaic and that's how Olson wrote." Though he stood 6-foot-8 and weighed 265 pounds, perhaps it was his desire and ability to live as a real resident of the town that made Olson's achievements slip beneath the radar. "(Gloucester residents) should know that a major American poet lived in their midst a very ordinary life, going to the store, going to the post office, walking in the streets," says Anastas. "An absolutely major American poet lived in their midst," he stresses. "He was like the conscience of Gloucester, writing letters to the editor about saving this and not letting that go, about understanding the importance of Gloucester and saving the wetlands." Of course, Olson hated writers' societies and blasted the Herman Melville Society in 1951 when it invited him to join its members in celebrating the 100th anniversary of "Moby Dick." "It's extremely ironic that we have founded the Charles Olson Society when Olson hated the Herman Melville Society," says Anastis. Yet, the Melville Society, Olson believed, was comprised of teachers and scholars who were using Melville to advance their careers. The Olson Society is not an academic society, but rather to help people understand what Olson was about and bring poetry into their lives. And not just Olson's poetry, says Anastis, but all poetry. "It's really to try to help people understand the importance of Olson and the relevance of his ideas," he says, listing among them the dangers of greed, concern for the environment, historical preservation and remaining connected to one's home and history. "And those ideas are extremely important today." 'Dirty' money Ferrini was always making plans to do a film about Olson. The interviews got jumpstarted back in 1995 when several admirers and colleagues were in town to speak on the poet during the Charles Olson Festival in July of that year. Ferrini got out his camera and began gathering the stories right there. But despite the recent surge in interest for poetry, with slams and readings and even the popularity of online publishing of one's own verse, Ferrini has been on a rocky journey to fund this project. He found that doing the award-winning Jack Kerouac thing, now seen in about 15 countries, didn't hurt. Still, the filmmaker laments that the ever-popular Kerouac contemporary Ginsberg is no longer around to make his contribution to the documentary. "He was a close friend," Ferrini says. "I think if I had him in the can it would have been a lot easier to get the film made." Still, using television and film is a wonderful way to grow the audience for poetry, he says. He walked away with about $6,500 from the "Dirty Dancing" screening benefit, and hopes to complete the film, currently still in production, by April 2005 to premiere it at the Cape Ann Historical Museum in Gloucester for National Poetry Month. With many films under his belt, Ferrini is used to this routine of working on the good stuff while the funding is there, even with occasional help from research assistants when the money holds out, and then setting them aside to do commercial work to pay the bills. In 1990, he completed a film called "Radio Fishtown" about Simon Geller, Gloucester's stubborn, eccentric and beloved resident, who was the last one-man radio operation in the country, until it was bought out by WBOQ. The film won Bravo's Hometown Video Award for Documentary Film by a Media Professional and was broadcast on PBS affiliate WGBH. He also made "Witch City," on one community's insistence on cashing in on the events of 1692, as "a cautionary tale of what happens when history is distorted by both merchants and would-be prophets." As for the recent fund-raiser's odd pairing of commercial vehicle and documentary film, Ferrini says he's simply grateful. "It's great, because the pieces are so diametrically opposed," he says. "It's sort of the ying and yang of the movie scene. That's sort of the beauty of it. There's nothing that connects it except that Sarah Green wanted to support a filmmaker whose work she believes in." E-mail reporter Dinah Cardin at dcardin@cnc.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 14:31:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Thomas Subject: Lakoff Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu In-Reply-To: <405E11CA.9D692937@delhi.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Kirby Olson wrote: Lakoff said that the Democrats are matriarchal, and the Republicans are patriarchal. As I'm sure many of you know, Lakoff develops this intriguing idea in his excellent book _Moral Politics: What Conservatives Know that Liberals Don't_ (U of Chicago P, 1996). There's a second edition (2002) with a new subtitle that I haven't read. It's a bit longer, so presumably there's some fresh material there: perhaps something explicitly about Bush and Company? Best, Joseph __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 14:50:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Thomas Subject: Re: Slander/Libel... Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu In-Reply-To: <405CCEDF.B42FD7DB@delhi.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm not sure if it has come up, but for those of you interested in the Naropa Institute, you might want to check out Sam Kashner's new book _WHEN I WAS COOL: My Life at the Jack Kerouac School_ (2004). It's an interesting first-hand account of the School of Disembodied Poetics by its first student. If When I Was Cool has come up, forgive me. I haven't read all the Naropa posts as closely as I might've. Best, Joseph --- Kirby Olson wrote: > Well, Ginsberg wasn't the only one on the prowl at > Naropa, and students > and faculty were probably equally so at that period > in time. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 14:53:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Mayakovsky, Beats, 2004 Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu In-Reply-To: <405E11CA.9D692937@delhi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Of course this sort of labelling is beyond crude--Lakoff is trying for something like a soundbite and not much more, and it's a bit astonishing not merely to accept it as a serious position but to try to extend it. But let's pursue it for longer than it's worth. If we accept that Aznar was Spain's "strongman," perhaps Spain does fit the theory, and the division of child-rearing labor is different in Spain than in Lakoff's version of the US. Or perhaps Spanish voters are less likely than our compatriots to vote with the emotion of the moment (I feel danger, I'll vote for the guys with the links to Franco) and actually think about what they're doing with their ballots, as even some of us do when we vote for people we wouldn't enjoy at a picnic but are likely to support policies we also support. Even that doesn't work all that well as a quick analysis. I would vote for almost anyone other than Bush among other reasons because Bush and company terrify me. You might want to question your apparent assumption that other countries, Spain in this instance, have "their version of the Democrats" or for that matter the Republicans. Back to Republican=-any "conservative" in any political context=strongman vs. Democrat=any "liberal" in any political context= mommy: what would you say about Chirac? Blair? Here as elsewhere, you might want to question your terms. Mark George Lakoff was on channel 39 the other night with Tina Brown (ex-editor of >the New Yorker). She has a neat show. Very good academics come on but >only for >one or two minutes, and present a tasty little idea, and then she cuts to a >commercial. Lakoff said that the Democrats are matriarchal, and the >Republicans >are patriarchal. He was quite neutral about this. He said that people vote >Democratic when it seems that they feel safe, because matriarchy promotes a >feeling of compassion and caretaking. People vote Republican when they feel >scared, because patriarchy promotes a sense that a powerful father will take >care of you, and everything will tighten up. > >All I could think was that the people in Spain voted opposite to his theory. >They got a train blown up and voted for their version of the Democrats, >although >Lakoff's theory should have had them voting for their strong man. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 18:28:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: fever MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII fever k1% when my heart for you is yearning ksh: when: not found k2% and my fever now is burning ksh: and: not found k3% and my limbs are twist and turning ksh: and: not found k4% then i'm ill ksh: syntax error: `then' unexpected k5% when my body's in a knot > ^C k6% and my breath is turning hot > ^C k7% and i don't know what i've got ksh: and: not found k8% then i'm ill ksh: syntax error: `then' unexpected wait a minute folks! k10% when i'm trembling like a leaf > ^C k11% and i'm sick beyond belief > ^C k12% and my life returns to grief ksh: and: not found k13% then i'm ill! ksh: syntax error: `then' unexpected k14% when my heads pop from my head ksh: when: not found k15% and i toss and turn in bed ksh: and: not found k16% and i don't know what i've said ksh: and: not found you have mail in /net/u/6/s/sondheim/.mailspool/sondheim k17% then i'm ill! ksh: syntax error: `then' unexpected that's more like it! remember, stress can kill! 1 when my heart for you is yearning 2 and my fever now is burning 3 and my limbs are twist and turning 4 then i'm ill 5 when my body's in a knot 6 and my breath is turning hot 7 and i don't know what i've got 8 then i'm ill 9 pico zz 10 when i'm trembling like a leaf 11 and i'm sick beyond belief 12 and my life returns to grief 13 then i'm ill! 14 when my heads pop from my head 15 and i toss and turn in bed 16 and i don't know what i've said 17 then i'm ill! 18 pico zz 19 h >> zz 20 pico zz that's more like it! remember, folks, stress can kill! _ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 18:11:51 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kerri Sonnenberg Subject: Discrete Series event 3/27 *7 p.m.* Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable _____THE DISCRETE SERIES @ 3030______ presents Pierre Joris :: Cole Swensen :: Jen Hofer :: Ray Bianchi :: Dan Machlin [Poet, translator & essayist Pierre Joris left Luxembourg at age 19 & has since lived in the U.S., Great Britain, North Africa, and France. Rain Taxi praised his most recent collection, Poasis: Selected Poems 1986-1999, for "its physical, philosophical delight in words and their reverberations." Just out from Wesleyan U.P. is his collection of essays A Nomad Poetics. Hi= s recent translations include 4x1: Work by Tristan Tzara, Rainer Maria Rilke, Jean-Pierre Duprey & Habib Tengour and Abdelwahab Meddeb's The Malady of Islam. With Jerome Rothenberg he edited the award-winning anthology Poems for the Millennium. In spring 2004 Green Integer will reissue three volumes of his translations of Paul Celan: Breathturn, Threadsuns and Lightduress. He often performs his work in collaboration with vocalist & visual artist Nicole Peyrafitte ( www.nicolepeyrafitte.com ), most recently touring their multimedia show SumericaBachbones throughout Europe & the US. He currently teaches poetry and poetics at SUNY-Albany. During the fall of 2003 he was Berlin Prize Fellow at the American Academy in Berlin. Visit Pierre Joris's website at www.albany.edu/~joris/.] [Cole Swensen's ninth collection of poetry, Goest, just came out from Alice James Books. Her work has been awarded a National Poetry Series selection, Sun & Moon's New American Writing Award, the Iowa Poetry Prize, the San Francisco State Poetry Center Book Award, and a Pushcart Prize. She also translates contemporary French fiction, art criticism, and poetry; recent books include Jean Fr=E9mon's The Island of the Dead and Olivier Cadiot's Future, Former, Fugitive. She teaches at the Iowa Writers' Workshop.] [Jen Hofer edited and translated Sin puertas visibles: An Anthology of Contemporary Poetry by Mexican Women (University of Pittsburgh Press and Ediciones Sin Nombre, 2003). Her recent books of poetry include the chapboo= k lawless (Seeing Eye Books, 2003), slide rule (subpress, 2002), and The 3:15 Experiment (with Lee Ann Brown, Danika Dinsmore, and Bernadette Mayer, The Owl Press, 2001). She is co-editor, with Rod Smith, of Aerial #10, a forthcoming critical volume on the work of the poet Lyn Hejinian. Her writings against the war in Iraq and the war on terror can be found in the special anti-war issue of A.BACUS, and in the anthology Enough (O Books, 2003); other poems, prose texts and translations appear in recent issues of 26, Aufgabe, Circumference, Conundrum, kenning, kiosk, NO: A Magazine of th= e Arts, and in the book Surface Tension: The Problematics of Site (Errant Bodies Press, 2003). She lives in Los Angeles, where she teaches and translates.] [Ray Bianchi grew up in suburban Chicago and was educated at the University of Iowa. For most of the 1990's he worked South America first in Bolivia as a volunteer in the San Sebastian Prison and later in Brazil in internationa= l business. In the late 90's he lived and worked in Dallas and New Jersey getting involved in poetry groups and literary organizations in those areas= . Until June of 2003, Ray worked in business publishing and today he has his own international business. Since June of 2003 he has returned to Chicago t= o live; he is the publisher of the Chicago Post Modern Poetry Calendar chicagopostmodernpoetrycalendar.blogspot.com, chicagopostmodernpoetry.com); and Poet in Residence at Plamondon Elementary School in Chicago, through the Poetry Center of Chicago. His work has appeared in: The Atlantic,(Prose) The Economist(Essay), Tin Lustre Mobile, Poesia y Cultura,Poesia, Red River Review, After Words, Poetry Magazine.com and Z nine.] [Dan Machlin is the author of "This Side Facing You" (Heart Hammer), "In Rem" (@ Press), "Sevenths" (Oasia Pamphlet Series) and a recent limited edition broadside from The Center for Book Arts. He has also collaborated with singer/composer Serena Jost on a full length Audio CD "Above Islands" (Immanent Audio) and set several poems by the poet HD to music. He is a current curator at The Segue Series at Bowery Poetry Club in New York and is Founder and Editor of Futurepoem Books, a Brooklyn-based publishing collaborative.] Saturday, March 27 *7PM* / 3030 W. Cortland / $5 suggested donation / BYOB 3030 is a former Pentecostal church located at 3030 W. Cortland Ave., one block south of Armitage between Humboldt Blvd. and Kedzie. Parking is easiest on Armitage. The Discrete Series will present an event of poetry/music/performance/something on the second Friday of each month. For more information about this or upcoming events, email j_seldess@hotmail.com or kerri@conundrumpoetry.com , or call the space at 773-862-3616. For a map to the space, and samples of past and future readers' work, visit the Discrete blog http://discreteseries.blogspot.com/ http://www.lavamatic.com/discrete/index.htm Coming up next month, 4/9 Kent Johnson and John Tipton ...if you'd like to be removed from this list please respond kindly... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 18:21:01 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Seldess Subject: Discrete Series event 3/26 *7p.m.* MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable _____THE DISCRETE SERIES @ 3030______ presents Paul Hoover :: Maxine Chernoff :: Kaia Sand :: Chuck=20 Stebelton :: Chris Stroffolino [Paul Hoover is author of ten poetry collections including Winter = (Mirror) (Flood Editions, 2002); Rehearsal in Black (Salt Publications, 2001); Totem and Shadow: New & Selected Poems (Talisman House, 1999); Viridian (University of Georgia Press, 1997, winner of the Contemporary Poetry = Series competition); the book-length poem, The Novel (New Directions, l990); = and Idea (The Figures, l987), which won the Carl Sandburg Award. His work = has been published in Hambone, Sulfur, American Poetry Review, The New = Republic, and The Paris Review, among other magazines, and in five editions of the annual anthology The Best American Poetry. He has edited Postmodern = American Poetry: A Norton Anthology (l994), a collection of American avant-garde poetry since 1950. Last year, Fables of Representation, a book of = essays, was published by University of Michigan Press. With Maxine Chernoff, he edits the literary magazine New American Writing.] [Maxine Chernoff coedits New American Writing with Paul Hoover, is chair = of Creative Writing at San Francisco State University, and has published = six books of fiction and six of poetry, most recently World, and Evolution = of the Bridge from Salt Publishing.] [Kaia Sand's first book of poetry, Interval, was just published by Edge Books. She lives in Southern Maryland where she teaches at St. Mary=B9s College of Maryland. Her poetry currently can be found in Antennae, ecopoetics , www.dcpoetry.com, and d u s i e : www.dusie.org. A poetry collaboration with Jules Boykoff is in the latest issue of Lungfull! Magazine, and a recent conversation with Carol Mirakove appears in = Banjo: www.banjopoets.blogspot.com. Jules and Kaia also edit the Tangent: http://www.thetangentpress.org/.] [Chuck Stebelton's work has appeared or is soon to appear in Antennae, Bridge, Can we have our ball back?, Conundrum, Near South, Pom2, and Shampoo. He organizes the weekly poetry series at Myopic Books in = Chicago.] [Chris Stroffolino is the author of 3 full-length books of poetry, = including Speculative Primitive (Tougher Disguises, 2004 forthcoming), Stealer's = Wheel (1999, Hard Press), and Oops (1994, Pavement Saw) as well as four = chapbooks, Scratch Vocals (Potato Clock, 2003), Light as a Fetter (Situations, = 1997) and Cusps (Aerial/Edge,1995) and Incidents (Vendetta, 1991). His = collection of essays on mostly contemporary poetry, Spin Cycle, was published in = 2001 and he also co-edited with Dave Rosenthal an edition of Shakespeare's = 12th Night. He currently lives in Oakland or San Francisco and teaches = English at St. Mary's College of California and is a member in good standing of the rock band Continuous Peasant (www.continuouspeasant.com), whose album, = Exile in Babyville, was released in Fall of 2003. Other than that, he needs to catch up on some sleep and probably quit cigarettes (but he's kind of waiting for the non-smokers to give up their SUVS first).] Friday, March 26 *7PM* / 3030 W. Cortland / $5 suggested donation / BYOB 3030 is a former Pentecostal church located at 3030 W. Cortland Ave., = one block south of Armitage between Humboldt Blvd. and Kedzie. Parking is easiest on Armitage. The Discrete Series will present an event of poetry/music/performance/something on the second Friday of each month. = For more information about this or upcoming events, email = j_seldess@hotmail.com or kerri@conundrumpoetry.com , or call the space at 773-862-3616. For a map to the space, and samples of past and future readers' work, = visit the Discrete blog http://discreteseries.blogspot.com/ http://www.lavamatic.com/discrete/index.htm Coming up next month, 4/9 Kent Johnson and John Tipton ..if you'd like to be removed from this list please respond kindly... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:13:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Walter K. Lew" Subject: Google Search for WMD's Hacked Comments: To: subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu Comments: cc: amathur@eciad.bc.ca, mufti@humnet.ucla.edu, dhwang@soka.edu, qchan@ucla.edu, qing@ucla.edu, himamasa@ucla.edu, elipat@ucla.edu, muniab@earthlink.net, yryu@ucla.edu, spahr@hawaii.edu, serk@ucla.edu, qchan@ucla.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > Try this soon, before someone forces Google to fix its site ))) > > 1) Go to www.Google.com /www.google.com/>> > > 2) Type in -- weapons of mass destruction-- > (DON'T hit return) > > 3) Hit the "I'm feeling lucky" button, NOT the "Google search" > > 4) Read the "error message" carefully -- the > WHOLE page. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 01:35:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: chorus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII chorus http://www.asondheim.org/chorus.mov the silent chorus moves quickly through the shuttle we all behave the same with ropes and signs swollen and melting are one and the same the stars in their degrees distend the body your place or mine your death or mine watch this very short film you will live inside it with everything you are _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:29:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: Maria Damon From: Poetics List Administration Subject: CFP: MLA Discussion Group on Media & Literature MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; FORMAT=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Call for Papers MLA Discussion Group on Media and Literature Program for the MLA Convention in Philadelphia (December 27-30, 2004): "Lyric and Media" How do theories of lyric expression, interpretation, and experience intersect with theories of media? Does a focus on the lyric compel us to rethink the narrative orientations of many discussions of the literature-media nexus? Possibilities include: lyric poetry in its media ecologies, from the alphabet or ideogram to the Internet; lyric, song, and sound recording; lyric and electric or electronic media; lyric and film/video; lyric and the dynamic generation of the page. Please send abstracts, along with requests for any audiovisual equipment needed for the presentation, to rmenke@uga.edu by March 25. (This program topic has been approved.) -- Richard Menke * Department of English * Park Hall 254 University of Georgia * Athens, GA 30602-6205 tel: (706) 542-1261 * fax: (706) 542-2181 rmenke@uga.edu -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:29:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: "Charles Baldwin" From: Poetics List Administration Subject: The Future of the Page, June 3-6, Seminar with Joseph Tabbi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Please Announce: 2004 Summer Seminar in Literary and Cultural Studies The Department of English, the Eberly College of Arts and Sciences, and West Virginia University present the 2004 Summer Seminar: "The Future of the Page" Seminar Leader: Joseph Tabbi, University of Illinois at Chicago June 3-6, 2004 Morgantown, West Virginia More information available at http://www.as.wvu.edu/english/summer_seminar/ or email Bonnie Anderson at banders@wvu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:31:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: "Cranky Journal" From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Call for Submissions (change) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; FORMAT=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Editor/List administrator, Some things have changed at Cranky literary journal and I was wondering if you could include the following in your next Poetz newsletter? We have a new co-editor and web site. We've received some great submissions through your list and appreciate it. Thanks. Amber Curtis/Patrick Thiessen Editors, Cranky Call for submissions: Cranky, Literary/Arts Journal. Edited and published in Seattle, Washington, Cranky is a perfect-bound literary/arts journal featuring original poetry, fiction and literary nonfiction. Cranky appears three times a year in the months of January, May, and September. The editors read submissions continually and are actively seeking original poems, short prose pieces (less than 1,000 words) and visual art (black & white and color) for future issues. Please see the Web site at http;//www.failedpromise.org/cranky/ for submission guidelines. _________________________________________________________________ Get reliable access on MSN 9 Dial-up. 3 months for the price of 1! (Limited-time offer) http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:18:43 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Silliman's blog Comments: To: WOM-PO , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, whpoets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT TOPICS: Harryette Mullen, Lew Welch & Jim Behrle: Poetry & marketing (from Althusser to Baudrillard) The Philadelphia Progressive Poetry Calendar "Leaving the Atocha Station" - the elegy Meaning & market dynamics Brenda Iijima: Around Sea Charles Borkhuis: Surrealism, Language Poetry & New American Aesthetics Cid Corman: 1924-2004 Noah Eli Gordon: boxing with the ghost of Spicer Lisa Jarnot: Swamp Formalism An anthology of response to the test of poetry Hong Hao, William T. Wiley, Hermann Nitsch & Henry Winkler avoiding eye contact: Visual art in NYC A test of poetry: anonymity & context http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ * * * My latest book Woundwood is available from Cuneiform Press: http://www.cuneiformpress.com/wound.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:39:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: (Fwd): DRAFTING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit DRAFTING basically it ll be something perhaps akin to duchamp's box or neil diamond's box set hopefully between somewhere--there is no one aesthetic other than the aesthetic, or if you d prefer, all aesthetics point to one aesthetic so, as ivan says, 'all is permitted' anything may be submitted cd's. lp's. visual works. writing. math. pictures. money. but please keep in mind that for this first one, i'm gonna be mailing them out 'on my own dime', so postage/weight/should be considered, otherwise only people in my vicinity will be able to have their very own artistic sisyphus boulder it works this way; send 10 submissions multiple 'one of a kind' or micro-produced and then after 10 submissions have been received, an issue appears i'd even take pop tsongas realize that it 'taint precious so if your submission makes great wrapping paper, it may be used as such, but please, take it easy, this should be enjoyable ideally, then, a month or two passes and a 'release' 'launch' or, better yet, brunch will be scheduled somewhere and we'll have a thing (the switch from the first person singular, to first plural marks my good intentions) either email questions kmthurston@hotmail.com or mail your bundle of joy, or, indeed, a question to drafting/k thurston 2647 n calvert st apt 1 baltimore md 21218 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:53:48 -0500 Reply-To: Mike Kelleher Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Kelleher Organization: Just Buffalo Literary Center Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 3-22-04 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IN THE HIBISCUS ROOM The Hibiscus Room at Just Buffalo is located in the Tri-Main Center, 2495 Main St., Ste 512 AMMIEL ALCALAY AND NICK LAWRENCE Wednesday, March 24, 8 p.m. Ammiel Alcalay is a poet, translator, critic and scholar. His latest work, from the warring factions (Beyond Baroque, 2002), is a book length poem dedicated to the Bosnian town of Srebrenica. Nick Lawrence's poetry and prose have appeared in Grand Street, Talisman, Object, Lyric&, Mirage, and ecopoetics, among other magazines. He is the author of the chapbooks: Timeserver and Decolonizing the Child. Ammiel Alcalay will give a talk: "Outside Possible History: Poetry As Experience And Knowledge" Wednesday, March 24, 12:30, Clemens 438, SUNY at Buffalo, North Campus. Speaking across a broad range of cultures, disciplines and concerns, Alcalay discuss how his immersion in a diversity of languages, scholarly research, writing poetry and prose, translation, compiling, editing and reviewing texts, have come to inform his view of poetry has a means of conveyance: of experience and knowledge, of ideas, of histories and narrative points of view, of texts lost, ignored or forgotten. CARD CATALOG POETRY PROJECT/ECOPOETICS 3 Double Launch Party and Reading March 27, 2004, 8:00 p.m. Admission free, books for sale. Card Catalog Poetry Project A collection of poems written on discarded library catalog cards, featuring Rosa Alcala - Christopher Alexander - Brendan Bannon - Michael Basinski -Joel Bettridge - Junior Burke - Sarah Campbell - Jack Collom - BrendaCoultas - tatiana de la tierra - Richard Deming - Dan Featherston - Lisa Forrest - Graham Foust - Kristen Gallagher - Gordon Hadfield - Michael Kelleher - Nancy Kuhl - Douglas Manson - Rachel McCrystal - Maureen Owen - David Pavelich - Peter Ramos - David Reed - Anna Reckin - Emile Sabath - Kyle Schlesinger - Eleni Sikelianos - Jonathan Skinner - Jane Sprague - Sasha Steensen - Roberto Tejada - Karen Yacabucci. ecopoetics 03 Readings from featured contributors of ecopoetics 03: Lisa Forrest, Eric Gelsinger, Douglas Manson, Florine Melnyk, Isabelle Pelissier, Allen Shelton, Jonathan Skinner, Jane Sprague, Sasha Steensen, Damian Weber. WORLD OF VOICES Thanks to a grant from the John R. Oishei Foundation, Just Buffalo and White Pine Press are able to bring four White Pine authors per year to Buffalo for Writer Residencies. During a week in Buffalo, each will do an in-depth school residency, make visits to local schools, and do community readings and talks. Books and on-line study guides will be available for local schools and libraries in advance of the author's visit. John Brandi, World of Voices Residency: Monday, March 29 - Friday, April 2 Monday, March 29, Visit to International School #45, Buffalo, NY Tuesday, March 30, East Aurora High School, East Aurora, NY Wednesday, March 3, Visit to Lakeshore Senior High School, Angola, NY 7:30 p.m. Pablo Neruda Centennial Reading Just Buffalo and White Pine Press celebrate the Centennial of the birth of the great Chilean poet, Pablo Neruda. Visiting poet John Brandi will discuss Neruda and read from work influenced by Neruda's poetry. Dennis Maloney, translator of three books of Neruda's poetry, will read from his translations and discuss Neruda's impact on the world of poetry. Bring you favorite Neruda poem to read. Thursday, April 1, Reading and Q &A, Erie Community College Downtown Campus 12:15 p.m. Friday, April 2, Visit to Hutchinson Central Technical High School, Buffalo, NY John Brandi is an artist and poet, author of thirty-six books of poetry, including Heartbeat Geography: selected and uncollected poems 1966-1994 and most recently, In What Disappears, both from White Pine Press. His paintings and collages are in collections worldwide. In his introduction to John Brandi's Heartbeat Geography, Scott Nicolay likens Brandi's poems to footprints: they are at once traces of his travels and evidence of the slight division between his body and the land. These "footprints" range from free-form lyrics with simple refrains to the seventeen loaded syllables of American haiku. He writes of God and gods, lust and love, the dignity of conch diggers, goatherds, peach pickers, stowaways, believers, breakdancers and the newly born. His observations reflect his ever-changing surroundings, his growth and age, the political moment, his affirmation of adventure, and always, his Whitmanian love of the whole untidy mass of experience. Downloadable reader's guide is available on the Just Buffalo website under "World of Voices." NJOZI JUST BUFFALO SLAMFEST WEEKEND April 2, 7 p.m., Open Mic Jam with New York poets, $10 April 3, 2 p.m., Teen Poetry Slam, $5 April 3, 7 p.m., Invitational Slam, $10 Allen Hall University at Buffalo South Campus (Next to Park & Ride) Njozi Promotions in conjunction with Just Buffalo present the Njozi SlamFest Weekend. We will be kicking off "National Poetry Month" with a showcase that will not be forgotten in the near future. Poets representing New York City, Toronto, Canada; Cleveland, Ohio and Washington, D.C. Friday night will be an off the hook Open Mic Jam featuring Jive Poetic, Mahogany Browne and Brother Earl from New York City. Saturday afternoon, April 3 will be the Njozi Teen Poetry Slam! We will have Dee Jays, door prizes and a lot of fun. The main event, the Buffalo Invitational Slam, takes place at 8 p.m. on Saturday. The registration is $25 for performers. The Grand Prize is $500 in cash to the man or woman left standing after 3 rounds. Pre registration is a must so contact us ASAP. If you have any questions send an email to Njozi@hotmail.com. This promises to be a very memorable event! WORKSHOPS JUST BUFFALO IS ACCEPTING APPLICATIONS FOR FALL WORKSHOP INSTRUCTORS. Just Buffalo offers writing workshops year round to all experience levels in poetry, fiction, drama, screenwriting, essay writing and publication. We are looking for published writers to teach workshops in the Fall of 2004. Courses can be single day courses, or they can meet once a week for two-, four-, six- or eight weeks. They can meet evenings during the week or Saturday mornings. Please send a cover letter, resume, and course description to Workshop Application, Just Buffalo Literary Center, 2495 Main St., Ste 512, Buffalo, NY 14214 or email it to Mike Kelleher at mjk@justbuffalo.org. Sign-up for one class or for the remaining two So You Say You Can't Write Poetry? with Marj Hahne Three Wednesdays, March 24, 31, 7 - 9 p.m.; $100, $85 for members As children we were natural poets, but by adulthood, we likely suppressed some of the sensibilities that enliven our reading and writing of poetry: (1) a fascination with wordplay and the infinite possibilities of language, (2) an alert sensory perception, (3) recognition and acceptance of our unique voice, and (4) patience with our learning process. Designed for the beginning or tentative poet (although practiced poets will find it enriching, too!), this educational and fun workshop will present accessible poetic forms, sample poems, and prompts as structures that allow for the possibility of poetry as we uncover or recover our individual poetic voices. We will create a safe space for generating lots of original writing while attending to the particulars of craft: language choices, the poem's shape, and various poetic devices. Marj Hahne is a poet and teaching artist from New York City. Her work has appeared in Painted Bride Quarterly, Mad Poets Reviews, La Petite Zine, Rogue Scholars, & New England Writer's Network. She also has a CD entitled, notspeak. -- How to Write and Sell Essays, Short Stories, Travel and Feature Articles, with Kathryn Radeff 2 Saturdays, March 27, and April 3 10-12 a.m. $135, $110 for members. Single class $35, $30 members The magazine field is overflowing with opportunity. With the right approachyou can craft articles, sell and re-sell to worldwide publications. Open to everyone, this four-week special workshop focuses on the fundamentalseditors are looking for and presents the secret to writing great marketing letters. Through in-class and at-home exercises, Kathryn Radeff provides a fun, effective, and motivational workshop designed to inspire the writer and develop creative confidence. The workshop also includes creative self-promotion methods and the business end of publishing. It is recommended that you purchase the four guidebooks from the "You Can Be A Working Writer" series at $5.95 each. March 27 Writing & Selling Travel Articles April 3 Writing & Selling Feature Articles NEW WEBSITE Just Buffalo has a new website: http://www.justbuffalo.org. Please share this link with anyone you think might want it and feel free to link to it from your site. If you would like to add a publication, organization, contest, conference, resource, etc. to the list of writer links, please write Mike Kelleher (information below). SPOKEN ARTS RADIO W/ Mary Van Vorst 6:35 and 8:35 a.m. Thursdays and 8:35 a.m. Sundays on WBFO 88.7 FM April 1 & 4 - ED ROBERSON (In the Hibiscus Room) April 15 & 18 - YUSEF KOMUNYAKAA (Collaborations and Connections) April 29 & May 2 - SUSAN RICH (World of Voices) _________________ Mike Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center 2495 Main St., Ste. 512 Buffalo, NY 14214 716.832.5400 716.832.5710 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk@justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:07:32 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anselm Hollo Subject: Martin Luther is a fink MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, folks, I stand corrected regarding slander and libel of the dead. Let's see: Martin Luther is a fink (he sold the poor down the river in the Peasant Wars). Jesus is a two-bit provincial rabble rouser (see Josephus). Emperor Constantine is a liar and a hypocrite (the Holy Cross above the battlefield, my foot!). And so on. Time for me to take a break from a listserv that is less and less about *poetics* and more and more about some truly boring version of the so-called Culture Wars. But before I sign off, let me state (once more, with feeling!) the following: The Trungpa / Merwin fracas, amply documented by Ed Sanders, who for many years since has been a cherished visiting professor in the Jack Kerouac School's summer program, had *nothing* to do with the (then) Institute and even less with the Jack Kerouac School. The "Regent" Ozel Tendzin's unfortunate hubris had nothing whatsoever to do with the Jack Kerouac School. To try to smear one of this country's most innovative, eclectic, and engaged schools of writing and poetics by harking back to those endlessly regurgitated "scandals" is gratuitous, pointless, and frankly, repellent.. For almost twenty years, the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics has been the Writing and Poetics Department of a fully accredited non-sectarian liberal arts instution, and the achievements of both its alumni and its faculty speak for themselves. I salute Mark Weiss, C A Conrad, and others who have patiently stood their ground against Kirby Olson's neo-con religionist polemics. I appreciate their efforts to try to convert him to some form of rational discourse, but I fear that Olson's debating tactics have revealed themselves to be those typical of right-wing bait-and-switch demagoguery (of which I am old enough to have had some experience). When his outrageous (and often ill-informed) statements evoke an irate response, he immediately accuses the responder of not having a sense of humor. Since it appears unlikely that he will either 'wake up' or take his clown act elsewhere, I will, for now, devote my time to more productive pursuits. Anselm Hollo AH ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 03:17:27 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: Martin Luther is a fink Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 > Time for me to take a break from a listserv that is less and less about > *poetics* and more and more about some truly boring version of the so-called > Culture Wars. Ah, Anselm. You've said what I have been fearful to say. Poetics=Culture? Not on this list. Although everyone has been helpful towards my studies. But then again, so much Springer Culture. Even if I ask for Cash. cash. Chris C. -- _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:32:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Evans Subject: Mac Cormack & Clover at UMaine Thursday Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Karen Mac Cormack & Joshua Clover will read in the University of Maine's New Writing Series on Thursday, 25 March 2004, at 4:30pm. For more information on the event, click here http://www.thirdfactory.net/NWS-25March2004.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:53:34 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Ginsberg, 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Louis, You wrote -- > Allen Ginsberg draws attention to the collusion between "mass communication" > and conformist opinion in 1959 in his Independence Day Manifesto. Perhaps > it's difficult for some on this listserv today to imagine mainstream America > as the rightwing aparat that some believe it has become, and that it was, > for Ginsberg, in this manifesto, through Fall of America, etc. It makes > sense that it is difficult to think so, unfortunately. Yes, I think that if you put Ginsberg! into the places where he puts Moloch! you would have my version of his poem. Ginsberg whose eyes are a thousand blind windows! Ginsberg whose love is endless oil and stone! Cocksucker in Ginsberg! Lacklove and manless in Ginsberg! Ginsberg who entered my soul early! Ginsberg who frightened me out of my natural ecstacy! Ginsberg whom I abandon! Wake up in Ginsberg! Light streaming out of the sky! Ginsberg! Ginsberg! Robot apartments! They broke their backs lifting Ginsberg to Heaven! Nightmare of Ginsberg! Ginsberg the loveless! Mental Ginsberg! Ginsberg the heavy judger of men! The pantheistic footnote with Holy everything. It's a poem that appears to cast evil everywhere and then says that everything is actually holy. Very weird. Very dangerous. It projects all evil elsewhere, but his own vision is pure and saintly? I like the last lines, but they seem to me to come out of the Judeo-Christian tradition, with a traceof Buddhist overlay.. Holy forgiveness! mercy! charity! faith! Holy! Ours! bodies! suffering! magnanimity! Holy the supernatural extra brilliant intelligent kindness of the soul! I'm not sure about supernatural, but the rest of it is ok with me. He ends with the tradition. It sort of seems like the way Annie Finch pointed out that Charles Olson's epic poem ends with a return to iambics. Ginsberg is a locomotive in the brain. He killed the best minds in my high school. Ginsberg whose fingers are ten armies! Ginsberg whose breast is a cannibal dynamo! Ginsberg whose ear is a smoking tomb! I've thought this for twenty-five years. -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:41:18 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: Martin Luther is a fink In-Reply-To: <50.29b61923.2d909374@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I guess the question is: how then do you reclaim public space that has been made unsafe? I found myself several times in the position of wanting to quit the list, most recently when Kirby made the comment (in an aside to his main point) that raping boys was an integral part of Arab culture; my distress was heightened, I'm forced to admit, by the complete silence regarding that remark. Thankfully CA Conrad responded more vocally (and with appropriate profanity) to the Ginsberg comment. What do you do when all you feel like doing is "quitting the list?" I mean, besides actually quitting the list? Some comments don't even deserve response I suppose--but when a statement so patently outrageous is made, we're almost compelled to get into a sandbox discussion. But many many people on this list seem not only to tolerate, but also to respect Kirby and value his contribution. (Hence the silence at the raping boys comment?) But these days--especially it seems--these opinions seem not only uninformed, or naive, but actually have real connections to real violence, that is: they enable our agents (American government) to act on our behalf in shocking, shocking ways. The dehumanization of the Arab male made it possible for the war in Iraq to be fought when it was, how it was, and has enabled the occupation to continue without seeming end. Of course it is in a certain group's interest to insure that dehumanization continues, hence the rules against trafficking with publishers of Iraani works etc etc. I'm only trying to say that there is a connection between individual violence (verbal or otherwise) and state violence. So there are all sorts of rules about "flaming" or not "flaming" but the rest--the codes of conduct, the level of discouse, etc.--is supposed to be worked out by the community. I know it is a strong and grave decision then to "quit" the list--to take your voice (and your ears!) elsewhere. At the same time--if I do stay on the list--when will I get weary of being a "defender"--and let shocking comments slip away: this happened during a discussion of few months back speculating on a certain poet's sexuality and/or religious affiliation based on evidence of the hairstyle in her authors' photo--a comment that was at best way bumpkin-naive and at worst shocking homophobic unintellectual discourse. So I don't know what's best for me. I'm worn out, in a sense. > When his outrageous (and often > ill-informed) statements evoke > an irate response, he immediately accuses the > responder of not having a sense > of humor. Since it appears unlikely that he will > either 'wake up' or take his > clown act elsewhere, I will, for now, devote my time > to more productive > pursuits. > > Anselm Hollo > > AH ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:32:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Julie Kizershot Subject: Re: Martin Luther is a fink In-Reply-To: <50.29b61923.2d909374@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On Naropa University-- I wanted to mention that all the talk of whatever Allen G did or did not say, or did or did not do DECADES AGO draws attention away from what the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics has become. It is an educational place where one can learn more about what is up with contemporary experimental poetry and the writers that led up to it (not just Beat, but Black Mountian, Language, New York School first and second generations, San Francisco Renaissance, etc etc) than any other place that I have yet found. I think at Brown, SUNY Buff and New School they seem to have a lot of exposure to this stuff too, but I haven't been to those places. I came to Naropa in 1995 as a student, got an MFA, then coordinated the Summer Writing Program there for many years. I can say honestly that I never slept with ONE of my teachers nor did I feel abused by them. I WAS however grateful for much of their shared knowledge, and learned a lot by watching and listening whether or not I consider individuals always upstanding ethically or not. There are abuses of power where ever there is power, in all sorts of institutions. Church, State, and the Arts. That does indeed suck and I have run into that myself pretty severely at times. BUT I for one am immensely grateful for having been able to spend a lot of time in a place where MY GOD they talk about POETRY EVERY DAY, and believe that it is important, and imagine that life as a writer might actually be something to pursue------- That's what I take away from Naropa. I am MUCH more interested in WHAT people are making, creatively and intellectually, than ...the rest. Best-- Julie Kizershot Naropa University MFA 1997 etc. etc. on 03/22/2004 12:07 PM, Anselm Hollo at JDHollo@AOL.COM wrote: > Well, folks, I stand corrected regarding slander and libel of the dead. > Let's see: Martin Luther is a fink (he sold the poor down the river in the > Peasant > Wars). Jesus is a two-bit provincial rabble rouser (see Josephus). Emperor > Constantine is a liar and a hypocrite (the Holy Cross above the battlefield, > my foot!). And so on. > > Time for me to take a break from a listserv that is less and less about > *poetics* and more and more about some truly boring version of the so-called > Culture Wars. > > But before I sign off, let me state (once more, with feeling!) the following: > > The Trungpa / Merwin fracas, amply documented by Ed Sanders, who for many > years since has been a cherished visiting professor in the Jack Kerouac > School's > summer program, had *nothing* to do with the (then) Institute and even less > with the Jack Kerouac School. The "Regent" Ozel Tendzin's unfortunate hubris > had nothing whatsoever to do with the Jack Kerouac School. To try to smear > one > of this country's most innovative, eclectic, and engaged schools of writing > and poetics by harking back to those endlessly regurgitated "scandals" is > gratuitous, pointless, and frankly, repellent.. For almost twenty years, the > Jack > Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics has been the Writing and Poetics > Department of a fully accredited non-sectarian liberal arts instution, and the > achievements of both its alumni and its faculty speak for themselves. > > I salute Mark Weiss, C A Conrad, and others who have patiently stood their > ground against Kirby Olson's neo-con religionist polemics. I appreciate their > efforts to try to convert him to some form of rational discourse, but I fear > that Olson's debating tactics have revealed themselves to be those typical of > right-wing bait-and-switch demagoguery (of which I am old enough to have had > some experience). When his outrageous (and often ill-informed) statements > evoke > an irate response, he immediately accuses the responder of not having a sense > of humor. Since it appears unlikely that he will either 'wake up' or take his > clown act elsewhere, I will, for now, devote my time to more productive > pursuits. > > Anselm Hollo > > AH ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:45:50 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Martin Luther is a fink In-Reply-To: <50.29b61923.2d909374@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks for saying all of this, Anselm. For a longtime now I have not understood the - perhaps missionary good willingness - to baby sit and coddle Mr. Olson's chummy commitment to what on first view appears as intellectual density -which in actuality is a thinly disguised commitment to and alignment with a very bigoted mindset the strategy of which - in the guise of intellectual proposition and query - has the consequence of draining this list of productive exchange, let alone clogging it with smears and hateful drek. For months I - and I assume many - have taken the sight of KO as a trigger to hit the delete button. Otherwise - similar to one of those black holes in space that suck up real stars - the list becomes a witness to an endless drain on smart energies best spent elsewhere. Personally, Anselm, I would like to see you stay on the least, both as an ear and a contributor. Though for several months I have found much more in the way of "discourse" on many a blog (or going to and talking after poetry readings), I think this list - as a broad public forum - is important to maintain for the health of writing, community, etc., (including the many, many lurkers) - minimally as an agora for announcements, but also as a pulse where the well can be stirred, and arguments can begin. In the fifties, when I was in a high school in a town with no small percentage of evangelicals, there was a student, Sammy, who used every class to raise his hand, stand up and praise the lord, talk about getting born again, what the Russians, those communists had coming our way, those fellow traveler students and commies up in Berkeley, and homosexual poets in San Francisco, etc. etc. and we were getting closer to closer to getting invaded. Most frequently, to survive the tirades, the teachers would put him out in his own chair in the hall way where he could read the Church pamphlets he carried in his binder. As students we were relieved. We wanted to get on to other things besides his Churchand other attitudes. One day he made a near fatal mistake. He let go on a tirade about the "race problem" and what those "dirty Negroes" were doing to the town - this is in a school that was about 40% African-American. After school, kids who saw his face, before he got put in the ambulance, said he didn't look good at all. That was back in 1958. Stephen Vincent > Well, folks, I stand corrected regarding slander and libel of the dead. > Let's see: Martin Luther is a fink (he sold the poor down the river in the > Peasant > Wars). Jesus is a two-bit provincial rabble rouser (see Josephus). Emperor > Constantine is a liar and a hypocrite (the Holy Cross above the battlefield, > my foot!). And so on. > > Time for me to take a break from a listserv that is less and less about > *poetics* and more and more about some truly boring version of the so-called > Culture Wars. > > But before I sign off, let me state (once more, with feeling!) the following: > > The Trungpa / Merwin fracas, amply documented by Ed Sanders, who for many > years since has been a cherished visiting professor in the Jack Kerouac > School's > summer program, had *nothing* to do with the (then) Institute and even less > with the Jack Kerouac School. The "Regent" Ozel Tendzin's unfortunate hubris > had nothing whatsoever to do with the Jack Kerouac School. To try to smear > one > of this country's most innovative, eclectic, and engaged schools of writing > and poetics by harking back to those endlessly regurgitated "scandals" is > gratuitous, pointless, and frankly, repellent.. For almost twenty years, the > Jack > Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics has been the Writing and Poetics > Department of a fully accredited non-sectarian liberal arts instution, and the > achievements of both its alumni and its faculty speak for themselves. > > I salute Mark Weiss, C A Conrad, and others who have patiently stood their > ground against Kirby Olson's neo-con religionist polemics. I appreciate their > efforts to try to convert him to some form of rational discourse, but I fear > that Olson's debating tactics have revealed themselves to be those typical of > right-wing bait-and-switch demagoguery (of which I am old enough to have had > some experience). When his outrageous (and often ill-informed) statements > evoke > an irate response, he immediately accuses the responder of not having a sense > of humor. Since it appears unlikely that he will either 'wake up' or take his > clown act elsewhere, I will, for now, devote my time to more productive > pursuits. > > Anselm Hollo > > AH ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:25:03 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: Martin Luther is a fink Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" just to say, i've wanted to get off this list countless times myself, esp. over the last (stormy) six years... the last year or so though has been esp. tough, as conversation has devolved into insinuation and some really loony declarations... if i want that sorta thing, i can turn on o'reilly or listen to rush or read l. ron hubbard... i think what keeps me subbed now is force of habit more than anything... in my last post i asked rather pointedly what we're doing here together, b/c it seems to me that we're at another of those collective turning points... last time this happened, the list (some of you will recall) melted down, only to be resurrected in its new & not necessarily improved format... is it ok to say that feelings were hurt?... feelings were hurt... there's a line that's crossed---and please don't anyone ask me to delineate it---when one goes from challenging the perceived status quo to crank... apparently not everyone here knows the difference between a rebel (with or w/o a cause) and a crank... and it only takes one crank to spoil everyone's fun, even with the delete key, b/c we are after all social beings, and sooner or later someone will post something (or enough of something) and we'll be in over our heads... don't know what else to say other than that i come here to learn, in part, and in part to get to know others near and far, and that i still think the correct m.o. on lists such as these is summarized in that little phrase, "in good faith"... there are certainly more and less performative ways to approach this space, too, and we can certainly have some fun here too... but as i'm now anticipating someone to post in to explain to me, or rather, to insinuate just how presumptuous i'm being and how faulty or passe my sense of things is, well--- you get the picture, most of you... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:28:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Ginsberg, 2004 Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu In-Reply-To: <405F443E.1FC69D09@delhi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > >I've thought this for twenty-five years. > >-- Kirby No, you've felt this. You seem not to be capable of thought, which is an entirely different thing. Mark ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:44:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Martin Luther is a fink MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Julie: Bravo! Certainly to poets, Naropa remains a very important institution. Now let's talk about poetry everyday on this list! I think it has drifted away from why it was founded. If one wants to discuss politics or religion, at least approach it with poetics in mind. Kirby: If you want to discuss Allen Ginsberg's sex life, at least discuss with reference to his poetry. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Kizershot" To: Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 12:32 PM Subject: Re: Martin Luther is a fink > On Naropa University-- > > I wanted to mention that all the talk of whatever Allen G did or did not > say, or did or did not do DECADES AGO draws attention away from what the > Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics has become. It is an educational > place where one can learn more about what is up with contemporary > experimental poetry and the writers that led up to it (not just Beat, but > Black Mountian, Language, New York School first and second generations, San > Francisco Renaissance, etc etc) than any other place that I have yet found. > I think at Brown, SUNY Buff and New School they seem to have a lot of > exposure to this stuff too, but I haven't been to those places. > > I came to Naropa in 1995 as a student, got an MFA, then coordinated the > Summer Writing Program there for many years. I can say honestly that I > never slept with ONE of my teachers nor did I feel abused by them. I WAS > however grateful for much of their shared knowledge, and learned a lot by > watching and listening whether or not I consider individuals always > upstanding ethically or not. > > There are abuses of power where ever there is power, in all sorts of > institutions. Church, State, and the Arts. That does indeed suck and I > have run into that myself pretty severely at times. > BUT I for one am immensely grateful for having been able to spend a lot > of time in a place where MY GOD they talk about POETRY EVERY DAY, and > believe that it is important, and imagine that life as a writer might > actually be something to pursue------- That's what I take away from Naropa. > > I am MUCH more interested in WHAT people are making, creatively and > intellectually, than ...the rest. > > Best-- > > Julie Kizershot > Naropa University MFA 1997 > etc. etc. > > > > on 03/22/2004 12:07 PM, Anselm Hollo at JDHollo@AOL.COM wrote: > > > Well, folks, I stand corrected regarding slander and libel of the dead. > > Let's see: Martin Luther is a fink (he sold the poor down the river in the > > Peasant > > Wars). Jesus is a two-bit provincial rabble rouser (see Josephus). Emperor > > Constantine is a liar and a hypocrite (the Holy Cross above the battlefield, > > my foot!). And so on. > > > > Time for me to take a break from a listserv that is less and less about > > *poetics* and more and more about some truly boring version of the so-called > > Culture Wars. > > > > But before I sign off, let me state (once more, with feeling!) the following: > > > > The Trungpa / Merwin fracas, amply documented by Ed Sanders, who for many > > years since has been a cherished visiting professor in the Jack Kerouac > > School's > > summer program, had *nothing* to do with the (then) Institute and even less > > with the Jack Kerouac School. The "Regent" Ozel Tendzin's unfortunate hubris > > had nothing whatsoever to do with the Jack Kerouac School. To try to smear > > one > > of this country's most innovative, eclectic, and engaged schools of writing > > and poetics by harking back to those endlessly regurgitated "scandals" is > > gratuitous, pointless, and frankly, repellent.. For almost twenty years, the > > Jack > > Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics has been the Writing and Poetics > > Department of a fully accredited non-sectarian liberal arts instution, and the > > achievements of both its alumni and its faculty speak for themselves. > > > > I salute Mark Weiss, C A Conrad, and others who have patiently stood their > > ground against Kirby Olson's neo-con religionist polemics. I appreciate their > > efforts to try to convert him to some form of rational discourse, but I fear > > that Olson's debating tactics have revealed themselves to be those typical of > > right-wing bait-and-switch demagoguery (of which I am old enough to have had > > some experience). When his outrageous (and often ill-informed) statements > > evoke > > an irate response, he immediately accuses the responder of not having a sense > > of humor. Since it appears unlikely that he will either 'wake up' or take his > > clown act elsewhere, I will, for now, devote my time to more productive > > pursuits. > > > > Anselm Hollo > > > > AH ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:59:43 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: Martin Luther is a fink In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit As mainly a lurker, and a recent one, I have found it interesting (in an anthropological sense) to read some of the stuff here. Though I admit, lately I've been too busy with other things and have mostly been pressing that delete button. I begin to understand better the full-on reaction some people have against religion. I come from a secular country (Australia) where church leaders of all stripes mainly confine themselves to public comments about social justice for the poor, for refugees, and the inadvisability of pursuing aggressive wars: and we don't put God on our money. (We have our own problems, of course). So I guess it's been educational for me, especially considering our government has now tied us, economically and culturally, ever closer to the States. I'm kind of with James Kelman when he says that bigotries are a product of faulty artistry. And given a wide acquaintance with human frailty, including my own, I've been surprised by some of the racist/bigoted comments: Kazim, I started an outraged mail about the male rape canard, but I deleted it; I felt too tired. Mea culpa. To various peculiar macho expressions of US triumphal and various misogynist/racist comments, you might add the homophobic equation of homosexuality with paedophilia. The feminisation of the Semitic male (Arab and Jewish) is of course a long tradition of Western power politics; and underneath that, you might ask why a man has to be feminised to make him less than human. What does that say about what women are in this culture? And so on. But yes, you get tired, since in the end these things are not about rational argument. Best A Alison Croggon Editor, Masthead http://www.masthead.net.au Home page http://www.alisoncroggon.com Blog http://alisoncroggon.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:16:32 -0500 Reply-To: Millie Niss on eathlink Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss on eathlink Subject: Re: Martin Luther is a fink Comments: To: kaajumiah@YAHOO.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kazim, I think the main reason no one defended Arab males from Kirby's nastiness is that everyone sensible deletes Kirby's messages without reading them. Another reason might be that people (such as myself) with little first-hand knowledge of Arab culture are not the best people to refute this kind of thing. I am pretty certain that Kirby is wrong, but I don't have data to support my case. Incidentally, one literary source for what Kirby said might be Andre Gide. He wrote a book (I forget which) about an older man's "love affair" with boy in North Africa. Of course the rapist, or at least statutory rqpist in the story was a French man, but the bookk did justify such behavior in terms of Arab culture. I didn't buy it when I read it years ago, and I still don't buy it. It was rather disappointing to read such a thing from Gide, who is one of my favorite authors (for Les Faux-Mannayeurs and Les Caves du Vatican). One would hope that great writers did not share the stupidiuty and bigotry of the society they live in, but, alas, they do. Millie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kazim Ali" To: Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 2:41 PM Subject: Re: Martin Luther is a fink > I guess the question is: how then do you reclaim > public space that has been made unsafe? I found myself > several times in the position of wanting to quit the > list, most recently when Kirby made the comment (in an > aside to his main point) that raping boys was an > integral part of Arab culture; my distress was > heightened, I'm forced to admit, by the complete > silence regarding that remark. Thankfully CA Conrad > responded more vocally (and with appropriate > profanity) to the Ginsberg comment. > > What do you do when all you feel like doing is > "quitting the list?" I mean, besides actually quitting > the list? > > Some comments don't even deserve response I > suppose--but when a statement so patently outrageous > is made, we're almost compelled to get into a sandbox > discussion. > > But many many people on this list seem not only to > tolerate, but also to respect Kirby and value his > contribution. > > (Hence the silence at the raping boys comment?) > > But these days--especially it seems--these opinions > seem not only uninformed, or naive, but actually have > real connections to real violence, that is: they > enable our agents (American government) to act on our > behalf in shocking, shocking ways. > > The dehumanization of the Arab male made it possible > for the war in Iraq to be fought when it was, how it > was, and has enabled the occupation to continue > without seeming end. > > Of course it is in a certain group's interest to > insure that dehumanization continues, hence the rules > against trafficking with publishers of Iraani works > etc etc. > > I'm only trying to say that there is a connection > between individual violence (verbal or otherwise) and > state violence. > > So there are all sorts of rules about "flaming" or not > "flaming" but the rest--the codes of conduct, the > level of discouse, etc.--is supposed to be worked out > by the community. > > I know it is a strong and grave decision then to > "quit" the list--to take your voice (and your ears!) > elsewhere. > > At the same time--if I do stay on the list--when will > I get weary of being a "defender"--and let shocking > comments slip away: this happened during a discussion > of few months back speculating on a certain poet's > sexuality and/or religious affiliation based on > evidence of the hairstyle in her authors' photo--a > comment that was at best way bumpkin-naive and at > worst shocking homophobic unintellectual discourse. > > So I don't know what's best for me. I'm worn out, in a > sense. > > > > > When his outrageous (and often > > ill-informed) statements evoke > > an irate response, he immediately accuses the > > responder of not having a sense > > of humor. Since it appears unlikely that he will > > either 'wake up' or take his > > clown act elsewhere, I will, for now, devote my time > > to more productive > > pursuits. > > > > Anselm Hollo > > > > AH > > > ===== > ==== > > WAR IS OVER > > (if you want it) > > (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:05:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CE Putnam Subject: Re: Martin Luther is a fink In-Reply-To: <001601c41056$d2e26220$a9fdfc83@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Leaf Shades! that's where - Aw Shucks- I put it cowering then not enough of me for this "thistle" correctly run the label through the printer detach yr holy bramble basket, yr on the premise perscription program that "I want you to say light pink I want you to say fa!" dirty dirt bomb & chemlawn (TM) Lunch! opening tomato soup can -- an eyeball -- how'd that get into me for twenty-five years the only bakery in town to sharpen my wrong Love, The Lawnmower __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:38:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hilton Obenzinger Subject: Re: Martin Luther is a fink In-Reply-To: <20040322194118.38834.qmail@web40812.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I regularly delete Kirby's posts without reading them. On other lists to which I belong, there are always one or two people who I delete without event bothering to read. I have learned to do this as a self-defense measure. If I clog my brain with statements that I find repugnant or idiotic or, worse yet, I get goaded into responding and then going a few rounds in debate -- well, I have little time and fewer brain cells to waste. I assume that this is a regular feature of any public forum -- there are some people you can't stand, and some debates not even worth paying attention to. I am willing to accept the ready delete for the few nuggets of the genuine article of intellectual insight that, from time to time, sparkle. What else should I expect from a list? I find out about books, about blogs, about readings, and a few commentaries -- and I toss out the crap. Is there anything more to life that I'm missing? Hilton Obenzinger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. Associate Director for Honors Writing, Undergraduate Research Programs Lecturer, Department of English Stanford University 415 Sweet Hall 650.723.0330 650.724.5400 Fax obenzinger@stanford.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:03:17 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: C as in... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sad to hear that Anselm Hollo won't be posting here...his is a distinquished voice and presence that every one will miss.. & with a wide ranging knowledge of po..depth and gravity that is hard to equal.. the joy of listserv for moi is that its non-hierarchical... so the famuz..and in my case 'the moronic' can post side by side.. student teacher gay straight up down her him all one to change the note.. C as in Chelm.. or in my tradition fool's ahoy.. or C as in Coltrane who's on for 3 weeks round the clock on WKCR.. the greatest sound the 20th cent. has produced.. our mozart..sweet air singin' ut up..up ut.. drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:04:17 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ela kotkowska Subject: poetry / ethics (Attention: a chaotic email) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Perhaps this whole discussion on Ginsberg could run under a header "Faut = il br=FBler..."=20 * Here a rashly-translated {apologies to the god of translating tasks} fragment from Ren=E9 Char's preface to an edition of Arthur Rimbaud * <> (from "Arthur Rimbaud", 1956) * {{As I am writing this, I see a man walking along the extended arm of a crane, about ten stories up. Completely unprotected, apart from the zig-zagging iron beams. Now he's sitting on top of one of them -- like workers on that famous photograph of New York, having lunch on a = foot-wide framework of a building under construction. I know nothing about the = man, and, from where I am, cannot even make out his face. Perhaps he's a molester, perhaps a saint. Now, he's alone, suspended over the street, = over the horizon of lake michigan, parallel to the trajectory of an airplane. What fascinates is the fragility of the moment, the possibility of fall, = the steady assurance of the body.}} * There is hardly a poet of greater integrity than Ren=E9 Char.=20 * Yet what are the conditions of poetry? =20 * &, for us, readers, is it really a question of forgiveness (besides, on = what authority?) * Elsewhere, Ren=E9 Char says that he's not interested in men without = flaws.=20 * What if the flaws are really major? Like, let's say, supporting the = fascist regime, or, having sexual relations with disciples (Plato would probably = see nothing improper here). Should we just say, morality is a flavor of the times, move on? Or delve into some unresolvable contradictions between "work" and "life"? * Either seems rather narrow-minded.=20 Where does the conflict lie? Is it with the author or is it within us?=20 Why do we demand exempla for our morality? * &, on the other hand, can one be "immoral" and be ethical? * So, we demand that the poet be - - -.=20 (Why) do (feel we) we have the right to demand anything? * We demand the poet to be, say, pure...=20 &, at the same time, expect him to be exposed to all the dirt of the = world, we would chastise him for being locked up in a "poetic" bubble. * Are we demanding the poet to be a politician fulfilling a promised = program? A messiah fulfilling a/the promise?=20 Hypocrite lecteur. Hypoth=E9tique lecteur. * And yet. Writing _is_ an ethical act.=20 Do the circumstances of writing diminish the fact? (Dostoevsky wrote the Idiot -- perhaps the best condemnation of death penalty one would ever = find -- for money, just as he was pawning his underware, and perhaps thought = of nothing but a book that would _sell_. I am touched by the sparks of its extreme beauty, by the badness of some of its writing...) * Please forgive me this fragmented, and rather incoherent message (I = haven't really put together my thoughts well here) . The topic itself is old as = dirt under your feet and as recycled. And, at the end, with equal lack of coherence, let me echo Andr=E9 Breton's question opening a (morally, = etc) controversial story: "Who am I (following)?", & his remarks a propos anecdotes on Victor Hugo, Flaubert :: to know that Flaubert's desire to depict the color yellow was his motivation to write a book is to have = more insight than we'd gain from any exegesis.=20 * Hence, my whole inquiry is necessarily fraught with contradictions. * {{ the crane forms a 30-degree angle with the horizon. the crane flies imperceptibly. }} now, back to what i really should be doing (writing a paper!) Regards to all, Ela Kotkowska incertainplume.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:09:35 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Kirby Olson is a fink MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Well, ok, I am one person on this list. I suppose I should get off. It's true that I have a different pov. I feel that I am completely alone with my perspective and am trying to understand this. 30 years ago at Evergreen State College already the female professors (lesbians) were having affairs with students and nobody said anything, but if men did, it was rape. There were concerts in which only women could attend. I said nothing. Slowly what I feel is an extremely hateful culture has arisen. I have said nothing. This list is probably the most notorious of all among people who cannot stand this hate business. And yet people on this list think that they are loving and correct. At least the people who write on the frontlist feel this. On the backlist I get dozens of messages from lurkers who have urged me to continue. But since nobody else is joining in I feel that the argument is getting too circular. And it's now a waste of my time because I think I understand that the collective paranoia of this board doesn't really want to be challenged. That's ok with me. I wanted to try to understand it. For me it was sort of like trying to argue with the nuts on campuses who want to talk about the Bible. I also wanted to try to understand Ginsberg, and how he thought he could be almost a guru to his generation, and yet demolish so many with his preaching in favor of drugs and promiscuous sex. But Ginsberg is not going to have shadow, no perspective. He couldn't have done anything wrong. He was a saint. Ok, fine. What he said is for the very strong, but a lot of other people were hurt. What I wanted to do was talk about the very basic ideas behind poetry. Afterall it has seemed to me that poetry is now an illustration of what are really almost retarded concepts. But since nobody ever critiques them, and nobody will even think that they are wrong, academia, poetry, and the left has become a very provincial place. As provincial as O'Reilly, if not more so. When I post anything, it seems that only a caricature of my posts is read. I too said that I loved Naropa, and came away ahead of the game. I do think Ginsberg was a great genius. I love his style. I also love Pound's style. I don't know whose content is more off the wall between the two of them. I love his poems. But I think the content is crazy. The style is fascinating, and as a snapshot of an era and a mentality, they could hardly be improved upon. Sort of like Robert Crumb's character Mr. Natural. I do find it funny that people still think there is something intellectually interesting in them. At any rate, I discovered a lot by having these conversations. I don't really feel there is anything left to discover here. So I will leave. I don't want to close the board down. When I began on the board though I tried to get people to discuss poetry. There were only messages against Bush and Iraq. I thought this was nuts. I've been on for a year, and the only messages Anselm has left have been to attack me. He's called me a neo-conservative and so on. He's only replied to my messages, as far as I can recall. I didn't even know why I hated these messages so much that took such a one-sided view of the war in Iraq, when even many Iraqis feel that their future is going to be better. Now, if the list moderator could take me off, or if someone could tell me how to stop getting messages, I will leave. I respect Anselm and his poetry (I think I have made this clear) and if he and most of you can't stomach me, I will go so that there can be perfect unanimity and harmony will reign once more. Best -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:54:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Writers & Teachers, B&N Glendale, CA March 23 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Monthly Writers & Teachers Series If you missed March's first Writers & Teachers reading with Elena Byrne and three students, you have another Los-Angeles area opportunity this Tuesday to hear local writers and teachers read their poetry. Stan Apps teaches at Chapman University. A graduate of the UCI MFA program, he's a member of a number of writing groups who self publish their work, electronically and in small chapbooks and pamphlets. Frankie Drayus is a Director of the Valley Contemporary Poets, and editor of their annual anthology of poems from the poets they feature at their LA-area reading series. She has published two chapbooks and a spoken word CD. Her poem, "Yielding," has been optioned for dramatization as a screenplay and is currently a film project at the Toronto Film Centre. 7:30 Tuesday, March 23 Barnes & Noble Glendale 245 N. Glendale Blvd. Glendale, CA 91206 free parking Rgds, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net Author, DaDaDa (Salt Publishing, 2003) ISBN: 1876857951 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:38:54 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: collective paranoia?... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" kirby: At 6:09 PM -0500 3/22/04, Kirby Olson wrote: >And it's now a waste of my time because I think I understand that the >collective paranoia of this board doesn't really want to be challenged. why don't you make a list to unpack for me (us?) how you understand the "collective paranoia of this board"?... not an explanation, mind you---just a thumbnail, grocery-type list... e.g.: (1) cabbage (2) pork chop (3) old new left politics etc... i have had problems on this list, in the past and just to be clear, with what i took (and take) to be (*) overtly pacifist understanding of international affairs or (*) overreliance on poetics predicated on formal innovation there---that's my #1 and #2... but that's just me, and i certainly wouldn't characterize what i'm listing in terms of paranoia... now, can you do the same?... and i mean, please to keep it concise, bud... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:55:32 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Martin Luther is a fink In-Reply-To: <001601c41056$d2e26220$a9fdfc83@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i love naropa. even though i could term certain of the faculty i studied with as (heterosexual) predators. it was the 70s. this was not unusual; the jk school was not an anomaly in this regard. i do not consider myself significantly scathed by the experience. in fact i grew a lot. i love naropa. and the jack kerouac school of disembodied poetics. when people on the list are cranks, i assumed (is this overly codependent of me?) that they are mentally ill. now this is not to say that everyone on the list who is mentally ill is a crank. but some people's mental illness takes this form. i think people shd be able to talk about anything they want, allen's sex life included. he sure talked about it. i love allen; and i understand that he is/was a mixed bag. i missed the remark about Arab men raping boys; often, i confess, my eyes glaze over and i reach for the delete button when some folks post compulsively. other times i read. i drafted a response to the allen/naropa thing but didn't send it. others said what i was going to. xo to all --md At 1:44 PM -0800 3/22/04, Joel Weishaus wrote: >Julie: > >Bravo! > Certainly to poets, Naropa remains a very important institution. >Now let's talk about poetry everyday on this list! I think it has drifted >away from why it was founded. If one wants to discuss politics or religion, >at least approach it with poetics in mind. > >Kirby: > >If you want to discuss Allen Ginsberg's sex life, at least discuss with >reference to his poetry. > >-Joel > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Julie Kizershot" >To: >Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 12:32 PM >Subject: Re: Martin Luther is a fink > > >> On Naropa University-- >> >> I wanted to mention that all the talk of whatever Allen G did or did not >> say, or did or did not do DECADES AGO draws attention away from what the >> Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics has become. It is an >educational >> place where one can learn more about what is up with contemporary >> experimental poetry and the writers that led up to it (not just Beat, but >> Black Mountian, Language, New York School first and second generations, >San >> Francisco Renaissance, etc etc) than any other place that I have yet >found. >> I think at Brown, SUNY Buff and New School they seem to have a lot of >> exposure to this stuff too, but I haven't been to those places. >> >> I came to Naropa in 1995 as a student, got an MFA, then coordinated the >> Summer Writing Program there for many years. I can say honestly that I >> never slept with ONE of my teachers nor did I feel abused by them. I WAS >> however grateful for much of their shared knowledge, and learned a lot by >> watching and listening whether or not I consider individuals always >> upstanding ethically or not. >> >> There are abuses of power where ever there is power, in all sorts of >> institutions. Church, State, and the Arts. That does indeed suck and I >> have run into that myself pretty severely at times. >> BUT I for one am immensely grateful for having been able to spend a >lot >> of time in a place where MY GOD they talk about POETRY EVERY DAY, and >> believe that it is important, and imagine that life as a writer might >> actually be something to pursue------- That's what I take away from >Naropa. >> >> I am MUCH more interested in WHAT people are making, creatively and >> intellectually, than ...the rest. >> >> Best-- >> >> Julie Kizershot > > Naropa University MFA 1997 > > etc. etc. > > > > > > > > on 03/22/2004 12:07 PM, Anselm Hollo at JDHollo@AOL.COM wrote: > > > > > Well, folks, I stand corrected regarding slander and libel of the dead. >> > Let's see: Martin Luther is a fink (he sold the poor down the river in >the >> > Peasant >> > Wars). Jesus is a two-bit provincial rabble rouser (see Josephus). >Emperor >> > Constantine is a liar and a hypocrite (the Holy Cross above the >battlefield, >> > my foot!). And so on. >> > >> > Time for me to take a break from a listserv that is less and less about > > > *poetics* and more and more about some truly boring version of the >so-called >> > Culture Wars. >> > >> > But before I sign off, let me state (once more, with feeling!) the >following: >> > >> > The Trungpa / Merwin fracas, amply documented by Ed Sanders, who for >many >> > years since has been a cherished visiting professor in the Jack Kerouac >> > School's >> > summer program, had *nothing* to do with the (then) Institute and even >less >> > with the Jack Kerouac School. The "Regent" Ozel Tendzin's unfortunate >hubris >> > had nothing whatsoever to do with the Jack Kerouac School. To try to >smear >> > one >> > of this country's most innovative, eclectic, and engaged schools of >writing >> > and poetics by harking back to those endlessly regurgitated "scandals" >is >> > gratuitous, pointless, and frankly, repellent.. For almost twenty >years, the >> > Jack >> > Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics has been the Writing and Poetics >> > Department of a fully accredited non-sectarian liberal arts instution, >and the >> > achievements of both its alumni and its faculty speak for themselves. >> > >> > I salute Mark Weiss, C A Conrad, and others who have patiently stood >their >> > ground against Kirby Olson's neo-con religionist polemics. I appreciate >their >> > efforts to try to convert him to some form of rational discourse, but I >fear >> > that Olson's debating tactics have revealed themselves to be those >typical of >> > right-wing bait-and-switch demagoguery (of which I am old enough to have >had >> > some experience). When his outrageous (and often ill-informed) >statements >> > evoke >> > an irate response, he immediately accuses the responder of not having a >sense >> > of humor. Since it appears unlikely that he will either 'wake up' or >take his >> > clown act elsewhere, I will, for now, devote my time to more productive >> > pursuits. >> > >> > Anselm Hollo >> > >> > AH -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:49:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: Kirby Olson = In-Reply-To: <405F722F.554C0DF@delhi.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirby i think u'd du fine if u stuck to critical aspirations and not not slanderous accusations u shld separate that out and put a list at the bottom of every post 'Slanderous Accusations:' with a colon like that and just list them out i'd like to see that ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:54:00 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Jeez... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeezus if every body leaves i'll be the only one reading my own posts.. jus' comme ca... ah shucks.. Kirby and Anselm.. Kiss on the lips & make up... & hoist one for ole Naropa U... it's March Madness... drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:10:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: Kirby Olson is a fink Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > But since nobody else is joining in I feel that the argument is getting too > circular. Wait... I haven't been reading this list for very long, but what, exactly, is the "argument?" If it's Old Values vs. New Values, then it is a waste of time. The concepts are too codified in people's hearts to be discussed on an intellectual level. And if I wanted to hear people dissolve all of philosophy into a dichotomy which requires no more thought or introspection than picking a side, I could turn on talk radio and hear obnoxious voices as well. If your arguement is that "the point of view here is too homogenous," that's fine, but the only way to counteract that is to introduce points of view that others can appreciate. You claim that you've done that, but no one will publicly admit it. I can appreciate how that would be frustrating, but it seems to be untrue, just based on the Ginsberg discussion. Several people offered that Ginsberg's behavoir was inappropriate. Most people seemed to feel that your way of objecting to Ginsberg's behavoir was in poor taste, but since you knew that when you posted it, I can't see why that bothers you. I thought your argument was rubbish, but that's the point of a discussion group, innit? In the past three or four weeks I've seen you tackle what I consider dozens of seperate arguments. If your tactics enflame, I assume it was because they were intended to. Do you really feel that everyone disagrees with you on all these points, by virtue of being totally homogenous? Because that's not what I've seen. > What I wanted to do was talk about the very basic ideas behind poetry. Afterall > it has seemed to me that poetry is now an illustration of what are really almost > retarded concepts. But since nobody ever critiques them, and nobody will even > think that they are wrong, academia, poetry, and the left has become a very > provincial place. As provincial as O'Reilly, if not more so. I think you are exaggerating. To the degree that you are not exaggerating, you seem to be ignoring the fact that this problem is as old as poetry, because fear of the Other is as old as humanity (at least). People very often dislike those who disagree with them. If that makes you unwilling to disagree, than you are not a poet. Both Ginsberg and Pound knew that. It has been my experience that the left self-criticizes far more often than the right -- Phil Ochs pops into my head immediately, but I could send you notes from the leftist groups I work with. This list cannot provide a complete picture of the left, academia, or least of all poetry. And your characterization of this list doesn't seem to be really fair, anyway. > At any rate, I discovered a lot by having these conversations. I don't really > feel there is anything left to discover here. So I will leave. I don't want to > close the board down. When I began on the board though I tried to get people to > discuss poetry. There were only messages against Bush and Iraq. I thought this > was nuts. This seems to be an emotional reaction to current frustration, as evidenced by the fact that you're misrepresenting your level of support. I think you should take 24 hours and reconsider. I generally don't have a lot of patience for people who leave and come back to a group every time something happens they don't like -- it starts to feel like the same sort of crass manipulation as repeated suicide attempts. But everyone's allowed one moment of frustration, right? I have even less patience for those who think they can discuss poetry without discussing the real world (and that demands discussion with those with whom you disagree). Although it seems to me you fight a lot of straw men, I would still rather read about Marxism than rhyme schemes, and rather read about Lutheran surrealism than the New York Times Review of Books. So if you want to continue to discuss a wide variety of topics with those who usually disagree, I'd appreciate it if you'd stay. If, in your mind, it really has become a situation where everyone's picking on you because you're different, don't let the door hit you on the ass. Yours, -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:16:02 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Chicago POMO updated Comments: To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com In-Reply-To: <12585243.1079996610898.JavaMail.root@wamui02.slb.atl.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chicago Post Modern Poetry Calendar is updated with a preview of AWP Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetrycalendar.blogspot.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Harry Nudel > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 5:03 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: C as in... > > > Sad to hear that > Anselm Hollo > > won't be posting > here...his is a > > distinquished voice > and presence > > that every one will miss.. > > & with a wide ranging > knowledge of po..depth and > gravity that is hard to equal.. > > the joy of listserv for moi > is that its non-hierarchical... > > so the famuz..and in my > case 'the moronic' can > post side by side.. > > student teacher gay straight > up down her him all one > > to change the note.. > C as in Chelm.. > > or in my tradition > fool's ahoy.. > > or C as in Coltrane > who's on for 3 weeks > > round the clock on WKCR.. > > the greatest sound the > 20th cent. has produced.. > > our mozart..sweet air > singin' ut up..up ut.. > > drn.. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 21:15:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Dusk to Dusk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dusk to Dusk Americans whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack Iraqis ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch Israelis whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack 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ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch Americans whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack whack _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 21:18:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jane Sprague Subject: West End: MARCH MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Saturday, MARCH 27, 2004 Poets Deborah Tall, Ogaga Ifowodo and Mario Hernandez will read from = their work. Mario Hernandez was accepted into the Writer's Workshop at Iowa in 1993, = but declined to attend. He writes in Ithaca, has published in Prairie = Schooner, and his self-published chapbook, Oblivion Diary, has recently = been taught at Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles.=20 Deborah Tall is the author of four books of poems, most recently = Summons, which was chosen for the Kathryn A. Morton Poetry Prize by = Charles Simic and published by Sarabande Books. She is also author of = two books of nonfiction, The Island of the White Cow: Memories of an = Irish Island and From Where We Stand: Recover=ADing a Sense of Place, = set in upstate New York. She co-edited the anthology The Poet's = Note=ADbook with Ste=ADphen Kuusisto and David Weiss and has edited the = literary journal Seneca Review since 1982. Tall teaches at Hobart and = William Smith Colleges in Geneva and lives in Ithaca. Ogaga Ifowodo, a lawyer, holds an MFA from Cornell. He has published = Homeland & Other Poems, Madiba (Africa World Press, 2003), and Homeland = (Edition Solitude, 1999), a German-English selection of his poems. He = worked for eight years with the Civil Liberties Organisation, Nigeria's = premier human rights group, and between 1997 and 1998 was held under = preventive detention by the then military regime of Nigeria on account = of his human rights activism; a memoir of his prison experience, an = excerpt from which was included in the anthology, Gathering Seaweed: = African Prison Writing (Heinemann, 2002), is in progress.=20 Gimme Coffee! 506 W. State Street Ithaca, NY=20 7:00p.m. to 9:00p.m. FREE and open to everyone. www.slyfox.org APRIL: Kathy Lou Schultz=20 Deborah Richards=20 Mariana Ruiz Firmat Special Event--April 29: Slope Editions Book Tour & Release Party MAY: Jonathan Monroe=20 Karen Anderson Sarah Jefferis JUNE: Rodrigo Toscano Laura Elrick JULY: David Lehman Noah Eli Gordon Eric Baus Sara Veglahn This event is made possible in part by public funds from the Community = Arts Partnership/NYS Council on the Arts Decentralization Program and = the support of the Constance Saltonstall Foundation for the Arts, = Ithaca, NY. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:07:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: New Beard of Bees Publication in time for AWP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.beardofbees.com/ "Our most recent chapbook is Boy Girl Boy by Catherine Daly." More news on my blog http://cadaly.blogspot.com All best, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:08:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: Kirby Olson is a fink Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Kirby, you are not a fink, neither are you a monster. You are a man with a point of view. While I may not share that pov...and on several issues, I don't...I do respect your right to hold that pov. I married a person (does it really matter which gender?) with a pov...fact of the matter is that is what I love most about that person. And in truth, having a pov is what I respect about most creatures I've encountered, because, it has been my experience that those who have the courage to maintain a belief...a point of view on an issue...were too those most tolerant of others' pov. And I abhore the clap-trap idiots who are too quick to criticize and equally quick to shift their attitudes depending upon the current "acceptable" point of view. I have found most of these folks shallow, and intellicually mute. I'm happy to be rid of them. From my perspective as a reader on this list, I'd say you are one of the few characters with a decidedly blatant and hard-nosed point of view...Kari Edwards is another such, and while I don't know that person, I admire that person's perspicacity. You and Kari and others like you need to continue to prod, to prick, to irritate to the point of pain here on the list. Alex Oh, Kirby, M.L. probably wouldn't have had the courge to continue to write here on the list...I think he was a Christian milktoast who lacked the courage to stand and be counted as a person. He needed the strength of the church as he defined it standing with him in order to have the courage to take a stand. pity that. He was really brighter than the mass collective of the clergy with whom he identified. >From: Kirby Olson >Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Kirby Olson is a fink >Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:09:35 -0500 > >Well, ok, I am one person on this list. I suppose I should get off. It's >true >that I have a different pov. I feel that I am completely alone with my >perspective and am trying to understand this. 30 years ago at Evergreen >State >College already the female professors (lesbians) were having affairs with >students and nobody said anything, but if men did, it was rape. There were >concerts in which only women could attend. I said nothing. > >Slowly what I feel is an extremely hateful culture has arisen. I have said >nothing. > >This list is probably the most notorious of all among people who cannot >stand >this hate business. And yet people on this list think that they are loving >and >correct. At least the people who write on the frontlist feel this. On the >backlist I get dozens of messages from lurkers who have urged me to >continue. >But since nobody else is joining in I feel that the argument is getting too >circular. And it's now a waste of my time because I think I understand >that the >collective paranoia of this board doesn't really want to be challenged. >That's >ok with me. > >I wanted to try to understand it. For me it was sort of like trying to >argue >with the nuts on campuses who want to talk about the Bible. I also wanted >to >try to understand Ginsberg, and how he thought he could be almost a guru to >his >generation, and yet demolish so many with his preaching in favor of drugs >and >promiscuous sex. But Ginsberg is not going to have shadow, no perspective. >He >couldn't have done anything wrong. He was a saint. Ok, fine. > >What he said is for the very strong, but a lot of other people were hurt. > >What I wanted to do was talk about the very basic ideas behind poetry. >Afterall >it has seemed to me that poetry is now an illustration of what are really >almost >retarded concepts. But since nobody ever critiques them, and nobody will >even >think that they are wrong, academia, poetry, and the left has become a very >provincial place. As provincial as O'Reilly, if not more so. > >When I post anything, it seems that only a caricature of my posts is read. >I >too said that I loved Naropa, and came away ahead of the game. I do think >Ginsberg was a great genius. I love his style. I also love Pound's style. > I >don't know whose content is more off the wall between the two of them. I >love >his poems. But I think the content is crazy. The style is fascinating, >and as >a snapshot of an era and a mentality, they could hardly be improved upon. >Sort >of like Robert Crumb's character Mr. Natural. I do find it funny that >people >still think there is something intellectually interesting in them. > >At any rate, I discovered a lot by having these conversations. I don't >really >feel there is anything left to discover here. So I will leave. I don't >want to >close the board down. When I began on the board though I tried to get >people to >discuss poetry. There were only messages against Bush and Iraq. I thought >this >was nuts. > >I've been on for a year, and the only messages Anselm has left have been to >attack me. He's called me a neo-conservative and so on. He's only replied >to >my messages, as far as I can recall. I didn't even know why I hated these >messages so much that took such a one-sided view of the war in Iraq, when >even >many Iraqis feel that their future is going to be better. > >Now, if the list moderator could take me off, or if someone could tell me >how to >stop getting messages, I will leave. I respect Anselm and his poetry (I >think I >have made this clear) and if he and most of you can't stomach me, I will go >so >that there can be perfect unanimity and harmony will reign once more. > >Best -- Kirby _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:15:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Charles Alexander/Beverly Dahlen book reviews In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20040322142952.02f46568@hobnzngr.pobox.stanford.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I thought these two poems - one from Charles Aexander and one from Beverly Dahlen - kind of hit chords with me and maybe the list in the context of recent "effusions of disgust." On my blog I have actually written more extended reviews of new books by both Charles and Beverly - if so inclined, be welcome to take a look. Stephen Vincent Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com 53 The racial epithet does not win the contest that goes from north to wherever poles give way to climate we want to give it up but somewhere someone very scared takes another breath and holds From near or random acts by Charles Alexander Singing Horse Press (2004) 18 In America we have no ideology a famous journalist aver s the country is run entirely on common senses and gas oline the people is plural and energetic especially the new ones displaced from their homes in Asia the schools are terrible the politicians trivialize serious issues and so do the media but everything's genetic and In twenty years We'll find he two great 19th century reputations most tarnished will be those of Marx and Freud there is no deeply hidden and intricate motive for unhappiness hap piness must our lot in life if some can achieve it then all must do so research on the brain indicates we are close very close to this universal human goal we will be happy anyway Beverly Dahlen from A-Reading Spicer & eighteen sonnets Chax Press (2004) > I regularly delete Kirby's posts without reading them. On other lists to > which I belong, there are always one or two people who I delete without > event bothering to read. I have learned to do this as a self-defense > measure. If I clog my brain with statements that I find repugnant or > idiotic or, worse yet, I get goaded into responding and then going a few > rounds in debate -- well, I have little time and fewer brain cells to > waste. I assume that this is a regular feature of any public forum -- > there are some people you can't stand, and some debates not even worth > paying attention to. I am willing to accept the ready delete for the few > nuggets of the genuine article of intellectual insight that, from time to > time, sparkle. What else should I expect from a list? I find out about > books, about blogs, about readings, and a few commentaries -- and I toss > out the crap. Is there anything more to life that I'm missing? > > Hilton Obenzinger > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------> - > Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. > Associate Director for Honors Writing, Undergraduate Research Programs > Lecturer, Department of English > Stanford University > 415 Sweet Hall > 650.723.0330 > 650.724.5400 Fax > obenzinger@stanford.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:42:42 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Elegy For Mice Trapped In A Burning House Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed even the slightest door did burn check your tails, underneath, the mice held the safe day underfoot their fur burned just enough to creak an earlier press of branches, together they are a gift that cracks when you touch it, that closes a rummaging eye _________________________________________________________________ Get reliable access on MSN 9 Dial-up. 3 months for the price of 1! (Limited-time offer) http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:19:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: 5.mov MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII the 5d http://www.asondheim.org/5.mov what was some separate images and aren't i'm too ill but these use time jittering with echo and posterize from four to five but it's all lies mathematics isn't mathematics is the only truth representation is an other thing all together ruined.mov and DANCERUN.MPG are going down soon so please get to them quickly you won't regret it _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:37:08 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: AWP Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pavement Saw Press will be at AWP in Chicago our table # is 233 Stop by & say hello. Many of our authors will be signing their collections at the table Authors of ours that will be reading and presenting include: George Kalamaras F. Jeanne Bergmann John Bradley Jeffrey Levine Dana Curtis Chris Stroffolino Schedule will be posted on Wednesday. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:44:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: new on ::fait accompli:: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit * please visit ::fait accompli:: http://nickpiombino.blogspot.com/ new links, including *Bush Flash* http://www.bushflash.com/gta.html selected placards from the recent Manhattan march against war ongoing "time travel" journal entries new Haiku: "Facade" "further thoughts on blogging and narcissism" with quotes from Christopher Bollas' *Shadow of the Object*, Paul Zweig, Annie Reich, Heinz Kohut, others excerpts from *The Journal of Eugene Ionesco*, Phillip K. Dick, Jim Behrle, others ongoing guide to poetry readings nationwide on the sidebar ::fait accompli:: averages over 3000 visitors, 7000 hits per month and please visit our Bloglinks listings at the Electronic Poetry Center http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/ * ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 03:16:51 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: O.K..for K.O... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the more i thing 'bout it.. you creeps..should leave Kirby alone.. i find the argument particularly amusing that his posts aren't about 'poetics' as are the daily infantadada...assassinated stress.. gay agenda...pol posturing... when they are rite on rite on rite on po....the poet is the sound is the life he is... you've already managed to delete...all that doesn't fit into yr tite worlds and called that diversity... as they say...hypocrite lec- tuer... & .edu et tu... drn... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 04:07:56 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Late Spring Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit de rerum naturam my knee aches 1st papers hepatitis c llosa padilla kozer huidobro hobbled in marathon of lv double helix temple scroll jahrbuch der jungen sur ants return darkclumped buds open to scant lite shitty life shitty po... Spring plus 1...4:10..'04..Drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 04:19:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Corey Frost Subject: PMR March - Coming to your city Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v482) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable THE PERPETUAL MOTION ROADSHOW is a travelling-reading-performance=20 series. This month features Corey Frost, Keith Knight Jr. and Glenna=20 Goodness at seven venues up and down the west coast. Attend the show in=20= your own city. It combines cutting-edge writers with musicians, artists,=20= videomakers, or anyone you'd be happy to see on stage. It's=20 high-quality. It's unexpected. And it's free. THIS MONTH: Corey Frost is a prose writer and performer from New York=20 via Montreal via points east; Keith Knight Jr. is a cartoonist ("The K=20= Chronicles" - see it on Salon.com) from San Francisco; Glenna Goodness=20= is a writer and singer of songs, from Victoria. Do a little google=20 research on them, and use jpeg and mp3 gimmickry to look at their=20 cartoons, songs, and text-based flights of fancy. Clever, beguiling,=20 caustic, empathetic, melodious, and loquacious are some words that=20 describe them. But which describe which? You decide. Also, see art-music=20= videos by Montrealer Kara Blake. PLACES AND DATES: Wed. Mar. 24: San Francisco. (Modern Times Bookstore, 888 Valencia St. 7:30 pm. With Stephanie Booher.) Thurs. Mar. 25: Ashland, Oregon. (Evo's Caf=E9, 376 East Main St. 7 pm.) Fri. Mar. 26: Seattle. (Confounded Books, 315 E. Pine St. 7 pm. With Jennifer Daydreamer.) Sat. Mar. 27: Victoria. (Solstice Caf=E9, 529 Pandora Ave. 8 pm. With Cat Thom.) Sun. Mar. 28: Portland. (Reading Frenzy, 921 Southwest Oak St. 7 pm.) Tues. Mar. 30: San Jose (Anno Domini, 150 S. Montgomery St., Unit B. 8 pm.) Wed. Mar. 31: Los Angeles (Flor y Canto, 3706 N. Figueroa Ave. 7 pm.) For more info go to www.nomediakings.net and listen to our Pay Phone=20 Tour Diaries. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 03:39:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ram Devineni Subject: World Poetry Day & Neruda In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii CENTENARY OF NERUDA: World-wide Programs Celebrate 100 Years of Pablo Neruda & Reading of “Heights of Macchu Picchu” on Mountains in South America and Mt. Everest. CONTACT: Ram Devineni, Program Coordinator at 1-212-723-4125 or devineni@dialoguepoetry.org / Rodrigo Rojas, (Santiago, Chile) 56-2-676-2590 or rodrigo.rojas@udp.cl The writer Gabriel García Márquez wrote, Pablo Neruda was “the greatest poet of the twentieth century — in any language.” Dialogue Through Poetry, Rattapallax, and Fundacion Pablo Neruda are helping to promote literary programs around the world to celebrate Neruda’s accomplishments and his role as a global citizen. Some notable events are occurring at the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts in Washington, D.C.; The Americas Society in New York City; Jardim das Artes in São Paulo, Brazil; Auditorio de Comfenalco in Cali, Colombia; and UNESCO headquarters in Paris. Working with poets and professional mountain climbers, there will be readings of Neruda’s classic poem “Heights of Macchu Picchu” on Mt. Aconcagua (Argentina); Illimani (Bolivia); Chimborazo (Ecuador); Mt. Everest (Nepal); the Andes in Chile; and Macchu Picchu (Peru). Photos and/or video will be provided as reference for each reading. The program called Neruda on the Peaks is a continuation of the successful Poetry on the Peaks program started in 2002 to celebrate the United Nations’ Year of the Mountain (IYM). The professional climbing partner is Alpine Ascents International. The mountain readings will coincide with the annual Dialogue Through Poetry Week and UNESCO’s World Poetry Day happening the week of 21, March 2004. In addition, Pulitzer Prize winner Yusef Komunyakaa (Neon Vernacular: New & Selected Poems) and American Book Award winner Martín Espada (Imagine the Angels of Bread) will travel to Santiago to participate in Chile’s celebration of their national poet on July 12, 2004. The event hosted by Rattapallax will be featured at Universidad Diego Portales. Martín Espada, called by Sandra Cisneros, the Pablo Neruda of North American authors, says: “This represents the fulfillment of a dream: to visit Neruda’s Chile and to pay homage to the poet who has most deeply influenced me, as a writer and person.” A new documentary, Neruda! Presente! will also be released this year along with several important anthologies and new translations such as The Poetry of Pablo Neruda edited by Ilan Stavans (Farrar Straus & Giroux) and The Essential Neruda edited by Mark Eisner (City Lights). Rattapallax magazine will present a special issue on poets and musicians influenced by Neruda featuring work from Edward Hirsch, Marjorie Agosin, Martín Espada, musicians Luciana Souza and Marciano, and many others. Lastly, to honor Pablo Neruda, a petition has been submitted to the International Astronomical Union (IAU) to name a crater on Mercury after the beloved Chilean poet. For more information about the programs, please visit http://www.dialoguepoetry.org or information about World Poetry Day and Neruda, please visit http://www.unesco.org/bsp/neruda/ ===== Please send future emails to devineni@rattapallax.com for press devineni@dialoguepoetry.org for UN program __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 06:45:49 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larry Sawyer & Lina ramona Subject: Re: Ginsberg, Kirby Olson, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Funny how someone (was it that long ago?) was mentioning that the = poetics list needs a good argument. Then we were privy to Augie = Highland's Rumsfeld comments and I still don't know if he's entirely = serious about all that...I guess he is. Hard to fathom. Where's the Poetics? I guess this list addressed poetry and poetics in the primordial = past---in fact, the first few times I tuned in that was my first = thought...Ok, now I'm a part of the Buffalo Listserv let's see what = these brilliant minds have to say...nothing but partisan bickering from = what I can tell. More and more in American society you are simply judged = by what's in your pants...look everywhere people, the real issue has = become morality...the gov't is about legislate legalized discrimination = against homosexuals. Hence, AH's 'culture wars' comment. Why has this = crept into most of the discussions on this list? It's an important issue = true...what does it have to do with poetics. Everything and nothing. = Perhaps people are finding this more interesting than poetics? Perhaps = it has something to do with the long yellow streak of Puritanism that = runs down the center of United States map? Ok, I see that it's becoming fashionable to take some kind of "macho" = stance on all issues anymore. What does Ginsberg's drunken or not so = drunken lewd behavior have to do with his poetry? Are we supposed to = discuss his poetics or his sex life or both, are they not separate areas = (divided by a huge gray area)? To say that Ginsberg destroyed lives is = ludicrous to me. Maybe he did, I did not know him. To say that his = poetry did this alone seems silly. Kirby, this is obviously your = experience with Ginsberg's work and the influence he had on you and your = circle of friends. But Ginsberg's work (and Kerouac's and Corso's, etc.) = had an opposite effect on me...it fairly liberated me from constrictive = thought processes and convinced me that likeminded individuals walk this = earth. I'm not saying that I agree with Howl, I'm simply saying that one = can vehemently oppose whatever disgusting behavior Ginsberg was party = to...and simultaneously critique and/or appreciate the merits of his = work. Kirby, you have, of course, the right to speak your mind. I think this = is precisely the only quality of this list that makes it worthwhile. = Everyone should speak up and out much more often.=20 Toleration and respect are not the same thing. The statement about = raping boys being a part of Arab culture is patently absurd and = completely offensive to me. I don't want my silence to be an act of = complicity so I hope everyone sound's off on these points to reclaim = some public space here. I think more discussion is the way to proceed = here, not people jumping ship, so to speak. This list has become an = important forum for me and its value is obvious. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:22:49 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Prageeta Sharma Subject: talk series at the Poetry Project-Please join us! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Talk Series: Rahna Reiko Rizzuto War, Words and Memory Monday, March 29th, 8:00pm The Poetry Project @ St. Mark's Church (corner of 2nd Ave and 10th St in Manhattan) New York City Rizzuto wrote her award-winning first novel, Why She Left Us, based on interviews with Japanese Americans about their experiences in the interment camps during World War II. She was living in Hiroshima, Japan, to do research into the atomic bombings for her next novels when the terrorist attacks of September 11th unfolded. She writes, "Language creates us, we use it to define ourselves, and then to reflect that identity. In my writing and my research about life during war, I have seen how memory shrinks and warps until it is no more than the sum of the stories we have told most often, and our "true" experience, if there was such a thing, has disappeared. In my talk I would like to explore the poetics and the rhetoric of war, and the language of memory, as I experienced them in Japan in September 2001, and as I saw them shape our notions of ourselves, as individuals, citizens, and members of a global community." Rizzuto is the recipient of the American Book Award and the U.S. Japan Creative Artist Fellowship. All events are $8, $7 for students and seniors, $5 for members and begin at 8pm unless otherwise noted. The Poetry Project is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. Schedule subject to change. Call (212) 674-0910 for more information about this event. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 06:51:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Lamoureux Subject: REMINDER--Fulcrum Annual Reading at the KGB bar, March 24th MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A CELEBRATION OF FULCRUM: AN ANNUAL OF POETRY AND AESTHETICS Wednesday, March 24, 7 p.m. @ Manhattan's KGB Bar, 85 E 4th Street (b/w Bowery & 2nd Street) Info: (212) 505-3360 Jonathan Ames, Billy Collins, John Hennesey, Glyn Maxwell, Philip Nikolayev, Katia Kapovich, Mark Lamoureux, Ben Mazer, and Andrew McCord. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:51:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: most of you In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 03:25 PM 3/22/2004 -0600, Joe Amato wrote: and I, for one, pray that he will not stop -- I've been on this list through meltdowns, powerups, embarrassments, illicit email republications, flame wars, well,,,, you get the picture -- I remain with the list because of people like Joe, Maria, and so many others, who can always be counted on to have something to say that I find worth hearing -- and, I confess, because over the years I have found this the best place to get quick answers to questions that arise from my readings of poems, as when Ron Silliman came to the rescue with an ID in a Bob Kaufman poem that had me puzzled -- True, I have tended not to join in on lengthy discussions of the dactyl, but I have followed those threads with interest -- So . . . I hope everybody will stay put and stay active -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "It don't sound so terrible -- " --Emily Dickinson Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:52:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: a solution to all your problems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:55:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: another one bites the dust . . . Comments: To: everett@filmstudies.ucsb.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From this morning's CHRONICLE -- This is a great loss -- They do, among other things, that wonderful series of reprints of African American Fiction -- NORTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY PRESS will immediately stop taking on new projects and will close at the end of 2004 for financial reasons, the university has announced. But Northeastern is talking with university-press consortia, with the hope of joining one of them within the next few months, the provost, Ahmed T. Abdelal, said on Monday. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "It don't sound so terrible -- " --Emily Dickinson Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:26:54 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: tub-thumper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII tub-thumper (TUB-thum-puhr) noun A noisy, vigorous promoter or speaker. [In earlier times, the word tub was jocularly applied to a pulpit. Imagine an impassioned preacher pounding away on his pulpit and you'll have a good idea of how this word came to be applied to any fervent promoter of a cause.] "According to Kipling the whole of England is a garden, though, inexplicably, it is maintained by men weeding its gravel paths with broken dinner knives. (Maybe the old tub-thumper had been too much at the Empire cream sherry.)" David Blundell; Eden's Gone Awry; The Times (London, UK); Dec 28, 2002. "Although Ruddock is the principal tub-thumper of this disgusting policy, Con Sciacca, the Opposition spokesman, isn't worth feeding." Phillip Adams; Beware: Bigotry is Back; The Australian (Sydney); Sep 1, 2001. This week's theme: descriptive words to apply to Kirby. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:13:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sylvester pollet Subject: 21st Ezra Pound Conf. Call for Papers (fwd) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 21st Ezra Pound International Conference Rapallo, Italy July 4-7, 2005 The 21st Ezra Pound International Conference will be held in Rapallo, Italy, Pound's home during most of his Italian years. Sessions will take place at the Villa Tigullio on the waterfront, near the Giardino Ezra Pound, a small memorial pond and garden which Rapallo dedicated to Pound. Lodging will be in various Rapallo hotels, with meals there or in other places at the discretion of participants, who will have the opportunity to relax in the seafront Caff=E9 Rapallo, under the balcony of Ezra and Dorothy Pound's apartment in Via Marsala, once the headquarters of the "Ezuversity." The registration and opening session will be held in the Salone Consigliare of the Town Hall, where Pound arranged concerts of music, and where the fiddle score which is now Canto 75 was first performed by Olga Rudge. There will be visits to Sant' Ambrogio, where Pound lived with Olga, which forms the background of some of his most haunting lines. Excursions to nearby Pound places such as Portofino, Portovenere, and Zoagli will be arranged. Among the highlights of this conference will be the possibility of seeing, on the night of July 3 in the Gulf of Tigullio, "the long boats set the lights in the water" as celebrated in Canto 47. Proposals are invited for papers on or related to the topic: "Ezra Pound, Language and Persona" Language and Persona (or Mask) are at the center of Ezra Pound's work, from his first commercial volume, Personae (1909) to his last Drafts and Fragments of Cantos CX-CXVII (1968). The Anglo-Saxon Seafarer, the Chinese Exile, Propertius, and Confucius, are only a few of his major masks. ("Give a man a mask and he will tell you the truth," as Oscar Wilde famously put it.) Pound also gave voice to many goddesses and women, ancient and modern, introducing aspects of language and gender. Other masks are his parodies of style, from the vernacular to the Biblical, and his tireless exploration of languages, Western and Eastern. His heroes could be called "men made out of words." Committee: Massimo Bacigalupo, University of Genova, Italy Walter Baumann, University of Ulster, Ireland David Moody, University of York, England William Pratt, Miami University of Ohio Papers should be timed for 30 minutes delivery and 15 minutes discussion. Proposals should be no more than a page in length, and should be sent by Oct. 1, 2004, via regular mail, air mail (outside the USA) or email, to the Conference Secretary: William Pratt Department of English Miami University Oxford OH 45056 USA Email address: prattwc@muohio.edu Anyone interested, with or without a proposal, should write to the Conference Secretary. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:53:50 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: Martin Luther is a fink Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Having lived in the Middle East for several years, my bet is that there are more men having anal sex with their girlfriends before marriage - so the girls will still be "virgin brides" - than there are older men raping younger boys. Although, too, there are bands of young men always walking around arm in arm, kissing on the mouth. But then, that's love. From: Millie Niss on eathlink Reply-To: Millie Niss on eathlink To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Martin Luther is a fink Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:16:32 -0500 Kazim, I think the main reason no one defended Arab males from Kirby's nastiness is that everyone sensible deletes Kirby's messages without reading them. Another reason might be that people (such as myself) with little first-hand knowledge of Arab culture are not the best people to refute this kind of thing. I am pretty certain that Kirby is wrong, but I don't have data to support my case. Incidentally, one literary source for what Kirby said might be Andre Gide. He wrote a book (I forget which) about an older man's "love affair" with boy in North Africa. Of course the rapist, or at least statutory rqpist in the story was a French man, but the bookk did justify such behavior in terms of Arab culture. I didn't buy it when I read it years ago, and I still don't buy it. It was rather disappointing to read such a thing from Gide, who is one of my favorite authors (for Les Faux-Mannayeurs and Les Caves du Vatican). One would hope that great writers did not share the stupidiuty and bigotry of the society they live in, but, alas, they do. Millie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kazim Ali" To: Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 2:41 PM Subject: Re: Martin Luther is a fink > I guess the question is: how then do you reclaim > public space that has been made unsafe? I found myself > several times in the position of wanting to quit the > list, most recently when Kirby made the comment (in an > aside to his main point) that raping boys was an > integral part of Arab culture; my distress was > heightened, I'm forced to admit, by the complete > silence regarding that remark. Thankfully CA Conrad > responded more vocally (and with appropriate > profanity) to the Ginsberg comment. > > What do you do when all you feel like doing is > "quitting the list?" I mean, besides actually quitting > the list? > > Some comments don't even deserve response I > suppose--but when a statement so patently outrageous > is made, we're almost compelled to get into a sandbox > discussion. > > But many many people on this list seem not only to > tolerate, but also to respect Kirby and value his > contribution. > > (Hence the silence at the raping boys comment?) > > But these days--especially it seems--these opinions > seem not only uninformed, or naive, but actually have > real connections to real violence, that is: they > enable our agents (American government) to act on our > behalf in shocking, shocking ways. > > The dehumanization of the Arab male made it possible > for the war in Iraq to be fought when it was, how it > was, and has enabled the occupation to continue > without seeming end. > > Of course it is in a certain group's interest to > insure that dehumanization continues, hence the rules > against trafficking with publishers of Iraani works > etc etc. > > I'm only trying to say that there is a connection > between individual violence (verbal or otherwise) and > state violence. > > So there are all sorts of rules about "flaming" or not > "flaming" but the rest--the codes of conduct, the > level of discouse, etc.--is supposed to be worked out > by the community. > > I know it is a strong and grave decision then to > "quit" the list--to take your voice (and your ears!) > elsewhere. > > At the same time--if I do stay on the list--when will > I get weary of being a "defender"--and let shocking > comments slip away: this happened during a discussion > of few months back speculating on a certain poet's > sexuality and/or religious affiliation based on > evidence of the hairstyle in her authors' photo--a > comment that was at best way bumpkin-naive and at > worst shocking homophobic unintellectual discourse. > > So I don't know what's best for me. I'm worn out, in a > sense. > > > > > When his outrageous (and often > > ill-informed) statements evoke > > an irate response, he immediately accuses the > > responder of not having a sense > > of humor. Since it appears unlikely that he will > > either 'wake up' or take his > > clown act elsewhere, I will, for now, devote my time > > to more productive > > pursuits. > > > > Anselm Hollo > > > > AH > > > ===== > ==== > > WAR IS OVER > > (if you want it) > > (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:10:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: I am asking for you to take action against hate and discrimination In-Reply-To: <001e01c41083$e9070c90$220110ac@CADALY> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://transdada.blogspot.com/ I am asking for you to take action against hate and discrimination. I know everyone of you gives to your local food bank, your favorite charity, your political organization, you volunteer and you recycle. but for me it is simple, civil liberties should ever be taken away. and here is in amerika, this regime is attempting to institute a policy of hate and bigotry by playing on homophobic fears, by restricting freedoms; freedom to have partners benefits, freedom to marry, freedom to adopt, freedom to be out, and most of all freedom to love who you want without fear of persecution or violence. know just incase you missed it since the this regime came into power hate crimes have risen over 38%... so I ask for your help in stopping this institutionalized hate against lesbians, transgender, bisexuals and gays today. take a stand for action for freedom . . . do not let them fool you in believing a second class of citizenry is equal.. separate but equal is never equal! how can you help..? there are many ways I sure you already know of.. here are some others... 1. the first is call your local, state, county representatives and demand legal right to marry for all. and demand no rights be taken about including those of that include the GLBT population as a protected class... which now I am sure you can see the reason that was instituted and that is one of the first protections to disappear from government jobs.. Identify and contact your elected officials. http://www.congress.org/congressorg/home/ 2. donate money... yes money is needed for not only the many legal battle, and the advertisements lie those form HRC and the Log Cabin Republicans, but just the day to day run of organizations. every time a pamphlet is printed, every time a long distance call is made it cost money; every time an organized protest happens it cost money, money the petitions to send to congress... it all cost... this place need your support.. please send what you can to...today these of some place that need your support: GLAAD http://www.glaad.org/ Human Rights Campaign http://www.hrc.org/ Lambda Legal http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/documents/record?record=1436 ACLU http://www.aclu.org/LesbianGayRights/LesbianGayRightsMain.cfm National Gay and Lesbian Task Force Creating Change http://www.thetaskforce.org/marriagecenter/ PFLAG http://www.pflag.org/ the National Latina/o Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Organization http://www.llego.org/ the National Transgender Advocacy http://www.ntac.org/ National Center for Lesbian Rights http://www.nclrights.org Marriage Equality California http://www.marriageequalityca.org/home.php CALIFORNIA FREEDOM TO MARRY COALITION http://www.civilmarriage.org/index.php National Organization for Women http://www.now.org/ 3. get involved, get on a mailing list, know when actions will be taking place, volunteer. if you do not know what else to do, call you local chapter of Pflag, find out how to help... 4. stay informed-.. know when votes are taking place and where... us my blog ( http://transdada.blogspot.com/ ) .. use what ever you can to keep the flow of information going . . .. you can start a email tree... emil me, email your local community, create a world net of communication to stop this homophobic hate that has risen ....: Planet out www.planetout.com/pno/splash.html 365gay.com http://www.365gay.com/ the advocate http://www.advocate.com/ Alt. Headline News http://www.netweed.com/headlines/" thank you kari edwards http://transdada.blogspot.com/ today @ transdada http://transdada.blogspot.com/ Tuesday, March 23, 2004 big big news... -Clerk Resumes Issuing Same-Sex Marriage Licenses In New Mexico -GOP gays place ads opposing amendment the scam of the week... -Republican Lawmakers Seek Change in Proposed Gay Marriage Constitutional Amendment -Lesbian Couple's Marriage Benefits To Be Revoked take action Kansas -Senate panel forwards amendment banning same-sex marriages to the Kansas Constitution if you live in RI.. call today... do not let hate prevail.. -R.I. Lawmakers To Hear Debate Over Gay Marriage if you live in Connecticut call you representives.. call the govenor.. call your mayor...now is the time!!! -Lawmakers Would Perform Gay Marriage If They Are Ruled Legal yesterdat @ transdada http://transdada.blogspot.com/ Monday, March 22, 2004 -Gay couple file complaint after marriage license request denied -HRC: CHANGING THE CONSTITUTION CAN'T BE CONCEALED WITH TWEAKS AND MANEUVERING -Florida Gay Rights Activists Continue to Challenge Legislation -Plan to stop adoptions by gay couples aired -Oregon County Delays Issuing Marriage Licenses -Connecticut lawmakers oppose amendment banning gay marriage -ACLU Calls Revised Marriage Amendment 'Desperate Political Move' -Rhode Island lawmakers to hear debate over gay marriage -Gay websites again hit by censorship -Ministers Not Guilty Plea -NEW PALTZ, N.Y. -Ventura speaks in favor of gay marriage -Federal Anti-Gay Amendment Rewritten -Arkansas foster parents fight antigay adoption ban -Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG) Call for Balance in Senate Judiciary Committee Hearings on Marriage Equality -Polls: Young Back Same-Sex Weddings More -Gay marriage debate returning to Georgia House -100 Gay Couples Plan To Apply For Marriage License and more @ http://transdada.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:15:36 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: last post! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Joe, and everybody -- thanks so much for asking me to continue -- Alexander Saliby, Larry Sawyer, Harry Nudel, Joseph Thomas, Joe Amato, and Ela K., whose post didn't exactly ask me to continue to post, but did such wonderfully brilliant inventive things with the last 24 hours of mayhem that I felt briefly human again reading her amazing ins and outs. Because I have decided to keep this post mostly about poetry I wanted to ask if anybody else could see Ginsberg's Howl as a self-examination, with Moloch as the negative aspects of himself? I realize that the poem is largely self-mythologizing, and argues that a band of nutty people in and out of mental asylums are actually great heroes to be emulated, but in the Moloch section, if you replace Moloch with Ginsberg, you almost get an exact readout of what Norman Podhoretz was saying about Ginsberg. Most of you probably know Podhoretz -- he went to Columbia with Ginsberg and became a kind of bete noir for him. Podhoretz started out with the left but swung wildly to the right (I enjoy this kind of individual, as I rather like it when people aren't stuck in one groove their whole life as they smell less mouldy to me). Podhoretz said that inside Ginsberg he was actually an extremely angry man, filled with raw hatred, who took pleasure in tearing down western civilization but had nothing to replace it with, and was the most violently competitive person he had ever known. This drove Ginsberg insane. Ginsberg went to the nuthouse after he had scribbled anti-semitic stuff on a dorm wall at Columbia, and blamed it on the custodian (lovely thing to do). I can't remember the details. I liked Ginsberg's Howl when I was 17. I thought it was important. Now that I'm almost 50 it seems shallow and poorly conceived, and not very self-questioning. Obvously he's a great writer technically, but I also think he is letting a generation off the hook, and that's why he is really so fascinating. The gnostic vision that he had (the surrealists were quite similar) is that there is a massive conspiracy against the angel-headed hipsters who are being locked up and driven crazy by the infernal state. The idea is to drive back and forth across America like two-year olds on tricycles going back and forth and never settling down or being responsible in the slightest -- never having a family, or if you do want a wife having two or three, and praising con artists and swindlers like Neal Cassady for having broken "free." Free of responsibility. While that was probably appealing to teenagers like myself, I don't buy today either the gnostic vision that America has nothing to offer (if this was true why are so many people trying to get in here?), nor do I buy the lack of responsibility to wives and children among this gang of arrested development cases. There is a fascinating and hilarious series of books by John Updike called the Rabbit Tetraology which offers a Lutheran critique of the Beat experience. It begins with Rabbit, Run. He is bugged by his wife, gets in his car and drives west, man, like To what extent does placing evil elsewhere, on to a system, or on to others, allow us to be utterly irresponsible to our own families and communities? If we posit a good and loving God, on the other hand, we suddenly have responsibilities. It's a Copernican switch from love of kicks and thrills to neighborliness. It's a drag, true, man, like, but I think Ginsberg's gnostic God allows him all kinds of license. And it allows others license. Ok, I was asked to be brief. The collective paranoia of locating evil elsewhere allows us to be irresponsible. I think this is the true source of Ginsberg's celebrity. He provided a roadmap to a licentious gnostic libertinism that was very appealing but that wasn't good for the next generation. Nor, I would argue, was it good for the weaker members of their entourage. Not William Burroughs' poor wife, but his son -- born with a heroin addiction. Kerouac's pitiful alcoholism. This is why I think a new myth -- not Gnosticism -- but Lutheranism -- has to be developed to counter this problem. -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:22:14 -0500 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: STANZAS #39 - J.L. Jacobs Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT new from above/ground press STANZAS #39 Dream Songs by J. L. Jacobs free if you find it, $4 sample (add $2 international) & $20 for 5 issues (outside canada, $20 US)(payable to rob mclennan), c/o 858 somerset st w, ottawa ontario canada k1r 6r7 J. L. Jacobs was born in 1967 in a place Missionaries called Ultima Thule, Indian Territory. She grew up under the auspices of the settlement's oldest Midwife. She graduated from Brown University's MFA program in 1992 and is currently teaching writing at the University of Oklahoma. Her work has appeared in such journals as New American Writing, Talisman, New Orleans Review, American Letters & Commentary and Ploughshares. Other publications include a chapbook, Varieties of Inflorescence (Leave, 1992) and a full-length collection, The Leaves in Her Shoes (Lost Roads, 1999). Representative work appeared in American Poetry: The Next Generation from Carnegie Mellon University Press, 2000. STANZAS magazine, for long poems/sequences, published at random in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. previous issues include work by Gil McElroy, Aaron Peck, derek beaulieu, carla milo, Gerry Gilbert, George Bowering, Sheila E. Murphy & Douglas Barbour, Lisa Samuels, Ian Whistle, Gerry Gilbert, nathalie stephens, Meredith Quartermain, etc. 1000 copies distributed free around various places. exchanges welcome. submissions encouraged, with s.a.s.e. & good patience (i take forever) of up to 28 pages. complete bibliography & backlist availability now on-line at www.track0.com/rob_mclennan various above/ground press publications can be found at Mother Tongue Books (Ottawa), The Double Hook (Montreal), Collected Works (Ottawa), Annex Books (Toronto), Lamplight Books (Victoria), etc. ======= -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...8th coll'n - red earth (Black Moss) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:27:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Tills Subject: Re: last post! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think Ginsberg's "Moloch" is definitely America's monster, NOT Ginsberg's=20 "darkside." I think the poem demonstrates that when a society "projects" all its crap out onto others, onto, for example,=20 "the best minds of a generation,"=20 then that society produces its Moloch(s). I think that Ginsberg had his darkside, too, as=20 all of us do, to varying degrees, dependent primarily on how much we engage in effective self-investigation (something poetry writing and reading does NOT always or necessarily supply). Good psychotherapy is in my firm opinion the truest and most reliable form of self (and (significant) "other(s)") investigation. I think that Ginsberg, himself, would have benefitted far more from really good psychotherapy (only so much=20 of which was actually available at the time, it could be argued) than he did from meditation. No, "far more than" does NOT mean "only by." His meditation was good, too. Another thing, I read once was that he had gone to India and his guru said,=20 "You'd benefit even more by going back to America and interacting with = people (as opposed to "zoning out into even further reaches of=20 isolation and self-absorption and Superiority,"=20 I suspect); now, that must have been one wise swami, I'd say. I love Allan Ginsberg's poetry. His sexual promiscuity was ALSO,=20 probably, to some extent, a casualty (AND a blessing) of his times (although I'm sure there were plenty of folks who were at least "as enlightened as" Ginsberg, but NOT abusive or exploitative. Also, I think we make a big mistake if we only revere "poets." Blah blah, Steve Steve Tills Microcomputer/Software Specialist MIS Dept.- G.W. Lisk Company, Inc. 315-462-4309 Stills@gwlisk.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:35:22 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Thomas Subject: Spalding Gray: Fresh Air In-Reply-To: <8601C518E4705B479C5747CD6962FFEC0867A9@gwexchange.gwlisk.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Fresh Air just completed a two part series "Remembering Spalding Gray" today, excerpting interviews and bits of his performances. For those interested, I've pasted the addresses below. If they don't work, you can also check out Fresh Air's webpage and find them yourself: http://freshair.npr.org/ Best, Joseph Part 1: http://freshair.npr.org/day_fa.jhtml?todayDate=03/22/2004 Part 2: http://freshair.npr.org/day_fa.jhtml;jsessionid=WDBF1VFEVCTVNLA5AINSFFA?todayDate=current __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:59:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Subject: Reading March 26: Karen Yamashita, Brent Cunningham (San Francisco) In-Reply-To: <8601C518E4705B479C5747CD6962FFEC0867A9@gwexchange.gwlisk.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit March news (notes on gay marriage, spring training, recent readings) http://www.habenichtpress.com/news/ complete reading calendar http://www.habenichtpress.com/readingseries/ You are invited to Friday Night Readings at David & Diane's apartment 695 35th Ave. #204 San Francisco 415.221.4272 enjoy your favorite poets in a cozy environment with refreshments and friends... bring some beer, wine, or a snack coming up: Friday, March 26, 7.30pm a reading by Karen Yamashita and Brent Cunningham Karen Tei Yamashita is a Japanese American writer from California. She lived for nine years in Brazil, the setting for her first two novels, Through the Arc of the Rain Forest, published in 1990 and awarded the American Book Award and The Janet Heidinger Kafka Award, and Brazil-Maru, named by the Village Voice as one of the 25 best books of 1992. Her third novel set in Los Angeles, Tropic of Orange published in 1997, and was a finalist for the Paterson Fiction Prize. A fourth book of mix genres in fiction and nonfiction, Circle K Cycles, is based on her research of the Brazilian community in Japan and was published in the spring of 2001 by Coffee House Press. Currently, she is Associate Professor of Literature and Creative Writing at the University of California, Santa Cruz. See her work at Coffeehouse Press and the Cafe Creole. (The following "intro" cribbed from Stephanie Young's blog:) [Brent] Cunningham's poetry is in ironic imitation of the ancient rhetoricians-it is, in short, false pedantry at its finest-"very well," he says, in the Platonic accent, "this is the opinion of the Athenians." Cunningham introduces to us a trope-a bird in the forest, for example-and explodes its possibilities as an image-object. He reminds us that those who would claim that irony is dead are fools. But-false pedantry aside, even in his so-called "lectures to undergraduates," or "explaination of thought for sheep," it is his sincerity that draws us in. While they profess a single subject, Cunningham's poetry exists, as Plato's dialogues did, in conversation with an accusatory public, an imaginary audience with whom he argues, but also in whom he finds himself mirrored: "My dear Robert, said Robert (for we were both named Robert" Robert says to the second Robert, "please go on, for your position fascinates me." Be prepared to be addressed as "my friends, noble listeners, narcissusts, bad businessmen, unsavory actresses-lovers" Directions: Public trans: From downtown San Francisco, take the 38 Geary or the 31 Balboa, and get off at 35th Ave. Driving: drive to 35th and Balboa, park; my building is the big one on the northwest corner of the street. Ring the buzzer for apartment 204. NOTE: the phone will be turned off after 8pm, so don't be late!!! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 17:47:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Martha L Deed Subject: poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening Breakfast is not where the day begins it’s where the most recent disasters are served our furnace had a bilious attack last night from too many excuses this morning’s furnace fricassee is fit for vegetarians alone I do not smoke a pipe I get my highs from BBC for instance the pothole in Uncle Demetrius’s brain dropping things on the table that should have stayed inside perhaps to guide if not to enlighten Rumsfeld nattering on NPR nevertheless so when I went for the MRI in Uncle Mete’s stead they did go on about shifting angiomas shaking hands with the right stabbed in the left I had to agree the left is wounded now for sure blown veins of spirit I had not expected the political discussion but it seemed wise to cooperate and they asked are you claustrophobic I thought Have a nice day I said put me in the tube the wire grate two inches from my nose no glasses there is nothing I want to see Rumsfeld I do not need to hear inside his steel tube brain so give me CBC on your rubber earphones lest you blow my head to smithereens like the furnace last night best of all no watches here keeping time with thump thump bang no bombs no Rumsfeld Brandenburg Concerto Number 6 is fine the trumpets tossing high notes at the magnets thrumming all of them saying listen listen listen so it is told by the journalist who invented his best interviews Rumsfeld nattering on I can wait ‘til later the blocks to keep my head in line quite useless the cringing is political not physical so if you could feed me time to time six weeks would be fine in here far from silent furnaces bleeding valves and Uncle Mete who died 80 years ago from a pothole in his head drip-dropping things like mine ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:32:07 -0500 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: 2nd to last post! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This post will be 75% poetry (not mine) straight from Ginsberg's Howl. It is to answer the charges that Morocco was not a pederasty center for the Beats. I could also thump down Naked Lunch as evidence. "Rocky Mount to tender Buddha or Tangiers to boys" "committing no crime but their own wild cooking pederasty" The next part could be upsetting so sensitive souls should gird themselves up with laughter before reading it, or just stop here: The self-study by the American Catholic church has reached a figure that 85% of the indictments concerning statutory rape in the church have to do with victims between the ages of 12 and 18. This has been reported in the Catholic journal First Things, and also on EWTN, the Catholic news station. This isn't so much a pedophile thing (the boundaries are very unclear) as a gay issue, therefore, is the way it's being treated. Someone else was trying to ask about that line. I realize nobody reads outside of their area as people who think differently often do drive us crazy, and I am sorry to upset people, but somehow life and news must trickle into even the most remote ivory tower. def. of pederast: one that commits anal intercourse esp. with a boy (Webster's) What are the boundaries of boy and man and child, age-wise, in terms of legality? I'm sorry again to upset those who don't like to deal with Ginsberg's poetry in all its factuality or to think about the fullness of the legacy he's left. The reason that Burroughs was in Tangiers is that there was the possibility of screwing boys legally. This did not exist in America at the time. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:17:03 -0500 Reply-To: kevinkillian@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "kevinkillian@earthlink.net" Subject: Re: 2nd to last post! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Was there a vote or something, and I missed it? Why is this man still allowed to post on this list? Was there a forum in which people stood up and said, "Let Kirby Olson post= "? If so could we re-stage it? I didn't get my two cents in earlier=2E Shame on you, Kirby Olson, for befouling the Poetics List with your so-called facts and charges=2E I agree that "life and news must trickle i= nto even the most remote ivory tower," but who elected you Walter Cronkite?=20= Don't try to tell any of us what is or isn't a "gay issue=2E" You've give= n me one more thing to do on a daily basis, i=2Ee=2E, to try to remember all= Lutherans can't be like you=2E --Kevin Killian Original Message: ----------------- From: Kirby Olson olsonjk@DELHI=2EEDU Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:32:07 -0500 To: POETICS@LISTSERV=2EBUFFALO=2EEDU Subject: Re: 2nd to last post! This post will be 75% poetry (not mine) straight from Ginsberg's Howl=2E = It is to answer the charges that Morocco was not a pederasty center for the Beats=2E= =20 I could also thump down Naked Lunch as evidence=2E "Rocky Mount to tender Buddha or Tangiers to boys" "committing no crime but their own wild cooking pederasty" The next part could be upsetting so sensitive souls should gird themselves= up with laughter before reading it, or just stop here: The self-study by the American Catholic church has reached a figure that 85% of the indictments concerning statutory rape in the church have to do with victim= s between the ages of 12 and 18=2E This has been reported in the Catholic journal F= irst Things, and also on EWTN, the Catholic news station=2E This isn't so much= a pedophile thing (the boundaries are very unclear) as a gay issue, therefore, is the way it's being treated=2E Someone else was trying to ask about that line=2E I realize nobody reads outside of their area as people who think differently often do drive us crazy, and I am sorry to upset people, but somehow life and news must trickle into even the most= remote ivory tower=2E def=2E of pederast: one that commits anal intercourse esp=2E with a boy (Webster's) What are the boundaries of boy and man and child, age-wise, in terms of legality? I'm sorry again to upset those who don't like to deal with Ginsberg's poetry in all its factuality or to think about the fullness of the legacy he's left=2E =20= The reason that Burroughs was in Tangiers is that there was the possibility of screwing boys legally=2E This did not exist in America at the time=2E -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:35:17 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Anne Waldman responds to recent Buffalo posts on Ginsberg... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear CAConrad - Thanks for keeping me posted. Appreciate your concern and wish I could respond at greater length. I am at the moment proofing Civil Disobediences: Poetics & Politics in Action, co-edited with Naropa Summer Director Lisa Birman, a wonderful collection of talks, interviews, documents from Naropa, to be published by Coffee House Press this summer( Naropa's 30th anniversary) which includes texts by Hakim Bey, Amiri Baraka, Creeley, Ted Berrigan, R Duncan, Kyger, Alice Notley, Barbara Guest, Beverly Dahlen, Samuel R. Delany, Robin Blaser, Alan Gilbert, Sonia Sanchez, Pierre Joris, Bobbie Hawkins, a brilliant lecture by Ginsberg entitled "Revolutionary Poetics" on Ackmatova, Neruda, others. What to say? Anyone who is at all serious & curious can & will look at the "record" of the Kerouac school through the antholgies, documents, writings & teachings of its amazing faculty & graduates over the years...We also have 7000 hours and more of tape documentation of classes, lectures, panels, readings, performance where the experiment that is the Kerouac school "speaks for itself". I am so tired of being in a reactive mode with the neocon hegemonic pathological dangerous crew that runs this country & dictates its agenda to others causing lifetimes of suffering on this planet, that it's hard to meet the draw on this. I was there at Naropa from the start - the point was to create an outrider zone for the New American Poetics & beyond - with the compassionate backdrop of meditative awareness & a vision for non-competitive mutually supportive educational community. Like any human community there's struggle, mishaps, mistakes, transgression etc...but I think that it stays the course and does benefit many creative beings of all ilks - we also have boundaries -like any responsible university - in place to protect our students and faculty from predatory behaviour. I see the trashing of Allen come and go -I see the demonization of homosexuality and it makes me sick. Allen was one of the most open & generous of beings - his life -his secret life-is an open book. There are no hidden dark crimes that I know of. I am the co-founder of the Kerouac school -I worked as assistent Dir & Director of The Poetry at St Mark's before that - I have designed curriculum for 30 years at Naropa -There is ample proof of what it's all about out there...I simply can't go on the defensive You can pass this message on. Many thanks & Onward! AW ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:54:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: 2nd to last post! Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu In-Reply-To: <4060C8F7.D2D16CD7@delhi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Oh god, I swore I wouldn't, but here goes. I'm sure some people on the list got angry at you because they disagree with your conclusions. Some of us, myself included, however, got angry because of the manner in which you reached those conclusions, which made discussion impossible. For instance, I don't remember anyone arguing that Allen and Burroughs didn't like teenage boys, and no one would claim that Burroughs never slept with teenage boys in Morocco. What annoyed people was your assertion that Arab cultures think that adults sleeping with teenage boys is perfectly alright. In fact Arab cultures tend to be pretty puritanical about most sexual practices. So a rather minor truth becomes in your argument a major cultural statement, but when you're challenged you retreat to the minor truth as if you'd never put the other forward. Next. Burroughs went to Morocco for all manner of reasons, not least because both living and drugs were cheap and because he had a taste for the exotic. He certainly didn't decamp from the US for all those years just to get laid by kids. Note also that at the time he left all homosexual behavior was illegal in the US, even if between adults. The recent supreme court ruling in the Texas case was about the arrest of two adults. Again, it's the manner in which your thought process works, taking you from the ordinary to the extraordinary as if it were perfectly obvious. You might note that when you shifted your ground to something like "in those days professors, among them Ginsberg, felt much freer to sleep with students than they do now" a lot of people on the list were willing to engage without acrimony. In the US homosexual activity between consenting adults has been declared legal, subject to the definitions in the various states of age of consent. For males this varies widely, but in most places it's 16 or 18. If the guy is younger than that and his sexual partner, male or female, is over the age of consent, he/she has committed statutory rape. The church statistic you quote indicates only that a relatively small number of ththose below the age of consent with whom priests have slept are younger than 12. It doesn't speak to gender. So the problem is that you generalize wildly from "facts" the boundaries or applicability of which you haven't thought through or which are questionable at best. Basically, if the factoid in question supports a position you wish to expound it gets no further scrutiny--the position has preceeded the evidence--and anyone who argues from knowledge finds himself arguing against belief. Understand that belief is neither knowledge nor thought. How could you not have learned this? Mark At 06:32 PM 3/23/2004 -0500, Kirby Olson wrote: >This post will be 75% poetry (not mine) straight from Ginsberg's Howl. It >is to >answer the charges that Morocco was not a pederasty center for the >Beats. I could >also thump down Naked Lunch as evidence. > >"Rocky Mount to tender Buddha or Tangiers to boys" > >"committing no crime but their own wild cooking pederasty" > >The next part could be upsetting so sensitive souls should gird themselves >up with >laughter before reading it, or just stop here: > >The self-study by the American Catholic church has reached a figure that >85% of the >indictments concerning statutory rape in the church have to do with >victims between >the ages of 12 and 18. This has been reported in the Catholic journal First >Things, and also on EWTN, the Catholic news station. This isn't so much a >pedophile thing (the boundaries are very unclear) as a gay issue, >therefore, is the >way it's being treated. > >Someone else was trying to ask about that line. I realize nobody reads >outside of >their area as people who think differently often do drive us crazy, and I >am sorry >to upset people, but somehow life and news must trickle into even the most >remote >ivory tower. > >def. of pederast: one that commits anal intercourse esp. with a boy >(Webster's) > >What are the boundaries of boy and man and child, age-wise, in terms of >legality? > >I'm sorry again to upset those who don't like to deal with Ginsberg's >poetry in all >its factuality or to think about the fullness of the legacy he's >left. The reason >that Burroughs was in Tangiers is that there was the possibility of >screwing boys >legally. This did not exist in America at the time. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:16:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Ira Cohen and John Brandi PASSING THE FLAME MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Word/Play Poetry Lineages: PASSING THE FLAME Medicine Show's 20th Annual Reading Series, Co-produced by Fish Drum = Inc. April 4th Sunday 4:00 Ira Cohen, John Brandi $ 6. cover Season passes $ 40 (see reading list at www.fishdrum.com) For more information call 1.212.262.4216=20 Medicine Show Theatre 549 West 52nd St. (10th/11th), 3rd Floor NYC 10019=20 Michael Rothenberg walterblue@bigbridge.org Big Bridge www.bigbridge.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:34:02 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Another Insight on all this talk of perversion Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu In-Reply-To: <4060C8F7.D2D16CD7@delhi.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am prob. the only person on the listserv who was a novice and postulant (For the Franciscans) and someone who worked with Priests and Sisters for four years in Bolivia as a lay missioner and someone who believes in Gay rights and also is a practising Catholic. Many, of the Priests and Sisters that I have known in my life were Gay, and 99% of them never "predated" younger people, and most of them lived either a celebate life or consentually gay life in secret. They are great people who live the Prophetic/Revolutionary religion of God far better than anyone who writes in First Things. Many of the greatest voices of Catholicism were Gay and they never hurt anyone and I vigorously deny that being gay makes one a sexual criminal. Having said this it takes a special kind of person to be a devoted Religious and many of those characteristics and people are found in the Gay community. Anything that appears in EWTN should be dismissed EWTN is a VERY conservative, homophobic network, they will not air shows on such 'radical catholics' as Pope John XXIII, Thomas Merton, Jacque Maritian, and Dorothy Day. But they air stories on Cardinal Stepanic who helped murder Jews and Serbs in Croatia during World War II. Try reading the assessment of the Pedophilia report published in the National Catholic Reporter which is much better and does not scapegoat gay people. Hence, my Church's sexual problems are the result of a fact that we refuse as a Church to realize that all people, created ,in God's image have the right to love and be loved and that within our Church we have not dealt with these issues. But to blame "homosexuals"for this is an insult to the great Catholic homosexuals like Michelangelo, St Francesco of Assisi, and many others. Also, and this is just my opinion as well, there is plenty of perverse behaviour by hetero sexual writers, just read a Henry Miller Novel. Ray Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetrycalendar.blogspot.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Kirby Olson > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 5:32 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: 2nd to last post! > > > This post will be 75% poetry (not mine) straight from Ginsberg's > Howl. It is to > answer the charges that Morocco was not a pederasty center for > the Beats. I could > also thump down Naked Lunch as evidence. > > "Rocky Mount to tender Buddha or Tangiers to boys" > > "committing no crime but their own wild cooking pederasty" > > The next part could be upsetting so sensitive souls should gird > themselves up with > laughter before reading it, or just stop here: > > The self-study by the American Catholic church has reached a > figure that 85% of the > indictments concerning statutory rape in the church have to do > with victims between > the ages of 12 and 18. This has been reported in the Catholic > journal First > Things, and also on EWTN, the Catholic news station. This isn't so much a > pedophile thing (the boundaries are very unclear) as a gay issue, > therefore, is the > way it's being treated. > > Someone else was trying to ask about that line. I realize nobody > reads outside of > their area as people who think differently often do drive us > crazy, and I am sorry > to upset people, but somehow life and news must trickle into even > the most remote > ivory tower. > > def. of pederast: one that commits anal intercourse esp. with a > boy (Webster's) > > What are the boundaries of boy and man and child, age-wise, in > terms of legality? > > I'm sorry again to upset those who don't like to deal with > Ginsberg's poetry in all > its factuality or to think about the fullness of the legacy he's > left. The reason > that Burroughs was in Tangiers is that there was the possibility > of screwing boys > legally. This did not exist in America at the time. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:00:59 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: (no subject) Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press (http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/) 9/11: Off The Record by Condoleeza Rice Spickun See Deutsch: Whites-Only Scholarship Brings Cream To The Surface: Spic Wakes Up In Plutocratic Northeastern College; Imagines He's White: College Named After Baptist Country Singer/Preacher/Seeker Goes South: "The Kids Riding The 'Little Shit' Express To Success Like Many Before Him. He's Very Bright For A Spic," Offers Rush Limbaugh. "Yet Another Gunga Dinesh Eager To Carry Water For the White Man. Well, For One, This White Man Is Grateful," Crows David Duke. by Marshall Mello Powell, Visits Baghdad, Defends The U.S. Occupation: U.S. High Command Orders Troops To Shoot Arab Journalists On Sight: Powell Denies Policy Of Shooting Arab Journalist: Says Two Shot Were Just Being Used To Make A Point About U.S. Displeasure With Arab Reporting: U.S Troops From Bumfuck, Kansas Accidentally Shoot A Seik Camera Crew, 6 Nigerian Private Security Officers And 11 Guatemalan Nuns Mistaking Them For Arab Journalists: "I Thank God Every Day For Our Bumfucks," Powell Prays. "Where Would This Country Be Without Its Bumfucks?" by Bloodletta Tatler After Receiving Envelope, Polish President Reassures Bush on Iraq: Degenerate Gambler Proves Shrewd Diplomat by Moneyka Islouseka Fears Impacted U.S. Reporting on Iraq: Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpability: Peers And Career Fears Geared Weird Iraq Smears By Media Beards: "You Gotta Know When Dropping Trou Will Actually Cover Your Ca-Rear," Intones Dan Blather: The Hague Seeks To Try 2000 American Journalists And Their Editors For War Crimes by Myasslickey Org They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:40:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brennen Lukas Subject: Brennen's Blog Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Howdy, I've posted my review of David Antin's recent two-part talk performance in Philadelphia. Please come on over to my blogger if you're interested. Sincerely, Brennen Lukas http://home.comcast.net/~blukas/hurt_blogger.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:58:50 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: In the sights Comments: To: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I opened today a package sent to me a couple years ago by Tim Gaze to find a wonderful vispo mag called ASEMIC chockful of curious letterforms, calligraphy & abstract tracings. This led me to the net where I discovered another press I wasn't familar with, Broken Boulder Press. The best part about their website is the print these titles yourself feature, with separate files for cover & insides so you can print & bind the pamphlets yrself. Every reader becomes a bookmaker. Hard to argue against poetry with no middleman. http://www.brokenboulder.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:07:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit THOU SHALT NOT KILL A Memorial for Dylan Thomas I They are murdering all the young men. For half a century now, every day, They have hunted them down and killed them. They are killing them now. At this minute, all over the world, They are killing the young men. They know ten thousand ways to kill them. Every year they invent new ones. In the jungles of Africa, In the marshes of Asia, In the deserts of Asia, In the slave pens of Siberia, In the slums of Europe, In the nightclubs of America, The murderers are at work. They are stoning Stephen, They are casting him forth from every city in the world. Under the Welcome sign, Under the Rotary emblem, On the highway in the suburbs, His body lies under the hurling stones. He was full of faith and power. He did great wonders among the people. They could not stand against his wisdom. They could not bear the spirit with which he spoke. He cried out in the name Of the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness. They were cut to the heart. They gnashed against him with their teeth. They cried out with a loud voice. They stopped their ears. They ran on him with one accord. They cast him out of the city and stoned him. The witnesses laid down their clothes At the feet of a man whose name was your name — You. You are the murderer. You are killing the young men. You are broiling Lawrence on his gridiron. When you demanded he divulge The hidden treasures of the spirit, He showed you the poor. You set your heart against him. You seized him and bound him with rage. You roasted him on a slow fire. His fat dripped and spurted in the flame. The smell was sweet to your nose. He cried out, “I am cooked on this side, Turn me over and eat, You Eat of my flesh.” You are murdering the young men. You are shooting Sebastian with arrows. He kept the faithful steadfast under persecution. First you shot him with arrows. Then you beat him with rods. Then you threw him in a sewer. You fear nothing more than courage. You who turn away your eyes At the bravery of the young men. You, The hyena with polished face and bow tie, In the office of a billion dollar Corporation devoted to service; The vulture dripping with carrion, Carefully and carelessly robed in imported tweeds, Lecturing on the Age of Abundance; The jackal in double-breasted gabardine, Barking by remote control, In the United Nations; The vampire bat seated at the couch head, Notebook in hand, toying with his decerebrator; The autonomous, ambulatory cancer, The Superego in a thousand uniforms; You, the finger man of behemoth, The murderer of the young men. II What happened to Robinson, Who used to stagger down Eighth Street, Dizzy with solitary gin? Where is Masters, who crouched in His law office for ruinous decades? Where is Leonard who thought he was A locomotive? And Lindsay, Wise as a dove, innocent As a serpent, where is he? Timor mortis conturbat me. What became of Jim Oppenheim? Lola Ridge alone in an Icy furnished room? Orrick Johns, Hopping into the surf on his One leg? Elinor Wylie Who leaped like Kierkegaard? Sara Teasdale, where is she? Timor mortis conturbat me. Where is George Sterling, that tame fawn? Phelps Putnam who stole away? Jack Wheelwright who couldn’t cross the bridge? Donald Evans with his cane and Monocle, where is he? Timor mortis conturbat me. John Gould Fletcher who could not Unbreak his powerful heart? Bodenheim butchered in stinking Squalor? Edna Millay who took Her last straight whiskey? Genevieve Who loved so much; where is she? Timor mortis conturbat me. Harry who didn’t care at all? Hart who went back to the sea? Timor mortis conturbat me. Where is Sol Funaroff? What happened to Potamkin? Isidor Schneider? Claude McKay? Countee Cullen? Clarence Weinstock? Who animates their corpses today? Timor mortis conturbat me. Where is Ezra, that noisy man? Where is Larsson whose poems were prayers? Where is Charles Snider, that gentle Bitter boy? Carnevali, What became of him? Carol who was so beautiful, where is she? Timor mortis conturbat me. III Was their end noble and tragic, Like the mask of a tyrant? Like Agamemnon’s secret golden face? Indeed it was not. Up all night In the fo’c’sle, bemused and beaten, Bleeding at the rectum, in his Pocket a review by the one Colleague he respected, “If he Really means what these poems Pretend to say, he has only One way out —.” Into the Hot acrid Caribbean sun, Into the acrid, transparent, Smoky sea. Or another, lice in his Armpits and crotch, garbage littered On the floor, gray greasy rags on The bed. “I killed them because they Were dirty, stinking Communists. I should get a medal.” Again, Another, Simenon foretold His end at a glance. “I dare you To pull the trigger.” She shut her eyes And spilled gin over her dress. The pistol wobbled in his hand. It took them hours to die. Another threw herself downstairs, And broke her back. It took her years. Two put their heads under water In the bath and filled their lungs. Another threw himself under The traffic of a crowded bridge. Another, drunk, jumped from a Balcony and broke her neck. Another soaked herself in Gasoline and ran blazing Into the street and lived on In custody. One made love Only once with a beggar woman. He died years later of syphilis Of the brain and spine. Fifteen Years of pain and poverty, While his mind leaked away. One tried three times in twenty years To drown himself. The last time He succeeded. One turned on the gas When she had no more food, no more Money, and only half a lung. One went up to Harlem, took on Thirty men, came home and Cut her throat. One sat up all night Talking to H.L. Mencken and Drowned himself in the morning. How many stopped writing at thirty? How many went to work for Time? How many died of prefrontal Lobotomies in the Communist Party? How many are lost in the back wards Of provincial madhouses? How many on the advice of Their psychoanalysts, decided A business career was best after all? How many are hopeless alcoholics? René Crevel! Jacques Rigaud! Antonin Artaud! Mayakofsky! Essenin! Robert Desnos! Saint Pol Roux! Max Jacob! All over the world The same disembodied hand Strikes us down. Here is a mountain of death. A hill of heads like the Khans piled up. The first-born of a century Slaughtered by Herod. Three generations of infants Stuffed down the maw of Moloch. IV He is dead. The bird of Rhiannon. He is dead. In the winter of the heart. He is Dead. In the canyons of death, They found him dumb at last, In the blizzard of lies. He never spoke again. He died. He is dead. In their antiseptic hands, He is dead. The little spellbinder of Cader Idris. He is dead. The sparrow of Cardiff. He is dead. The canary of Swansea. Who killed him? Who killed the bright-headed bird? You did, you son of a bitch. You drowned him in your cocktail brain. He fell down and died in your synthetic heart. You killed him, Oppenheimer the Million-Killer, You killed him, Einstein the Gray Eminence. You killed him, Havanahavana, with your Nobel Prize. You killed him, General, Through the proper channels. You strangled him, Le Mouton, With your mains étendues. He confessed in open court to a pince-nezed skull. You shot him in the back of the head As he stumbled in the last cellar. You killed him, Benign Lady on the postage stamp. He was found dead at a Liberal Weekly luncheon. He was found dead on the cutting room floor. He was found dead at a Time policy conference. Henry Luce killed him with a telegram to the Pope. Mademoiselle strangled him with a padded brassiere. Old Possum sprinkled him with a tea ball. After the wolves were done, the vaticides Crawled off with his bowels to their classrooms and quarterlies. When the news came over the radio You personally rose up shouting, “Give us Barabbas!” In your lonely crowd you swept over him. Your custom-built brogans and your ballet slippers Pummeled him to death in the gritty street. You hit him with an album of Hindemith. You stabbed him with stainless steel by Isamu Noguchi, He is dead. He is Dead. Like Ignacio the bullfighter, At four o’clock in the afternoon. At precisely four o’clock. I too do not want to hear it. I too do not want to know it. I want to run into the street, Shouting, “Remember Vanzetti!” I want to pour gasoline down your chimneys. I want to blow up your galleries. I want to bum down your editorial offices. I want to slit the bellies of your frigid women. I want to sink your sailboats and launches. I want to strangle your children at their finger paintings. I want to poison your Afghans and poodles. He is dead, the little drunken cherub. He is dead, The effulgent tub thumper. He is Dead. The ever living birds are not singing To the head of Bran. The sea birds are still Over Bardsey of Ten Thousand Saints. The underground men are not singing On their way to work. There is a smell of blood In the smell of the turf smoke. They have struck him down, The son of David ap Gwilym. They have murdered him, The Baby of Taliessin. There he lies dead, By the Iceberg of the United Nations. There he lies sandbagged, At the foot of the Statue of Liberty. The Gulf Stream smells of blood As it breaks on the sand of Iona And the blue rocks of Canarvon. And all the birds of the deep sea rise up Over the luxury liners and scream, “You killed him! You killed him. In your God damned Brooks Brothers suit, You son of a bitch.” --Kenneth Rexroth ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:25:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Reading MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Friday March 26, 7:00 pm, featuring Fred Wah, Louis Cabri, Barb Scott, James Dangerous, and Natalie Simpson McNally Robinson 120 – 8 ave S.W. Calgary, AB Admission is free Visit www.fillingstation.ca for complete details ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:25:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: about about MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I feel uncomfortable about the way certain other folks are feeling right now, folks I know and folks I don't know but whose opinions I highly respect, who have posted about what Kirby has said in the past (posts I missed). Hope it's alright to be an irregular poster and lurker? I actively participated in the last round of expulsions, years ago, and it was exhausting; and since then, I've only read the list for announcements (and when I've read for more than announcements, the reasons have had virtually nothing to do with the quality of the posts [sorry!], but rather to do with what-else was/is going-on in my life). I no longer have any expectations of any kind concerning what this list might do or be (apart from a dumping-ground of announcements) (once upon a time I did have hopes for it -- I'm one of those who have been here for a long time). Sorry everybody, I'm kind of bailing out, but I can't deal with this this time around (not that I necessarily had much to do with it last time, in any direct way other than as a list poster - but that seemed enough to wipe me out). Perhaps the list moderator should step in, as someone suggested? I won't sign-off the list, but I can't start re-reading old posts, like I did last time there was a crisis. Best to all, Louis ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 00:38:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: butterfly fugue MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII butterfly fugue http://www.asondheim.org/deathfugue.mov this is the mating that triggered the war that killed all the people the silent wings stirring up anguish, no one can take the blame we are all innocent in our lives, we are all wounded we will not eat we will live to do as much injury as possible we will bring everyone to their knees, how dare they we are the fury of the righteous and the violence of the lord we are christ's burning, yahweh's drowning, allah's stoning how dare we speak in the name of the truth we are the murderers' fire and water and stone one with annihilation one with the world __ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 00:39:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Keenan Subject: Re: 2nd to last post! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirby, Am I the only one to appreciate your keen sense of irony? Your letting go half cocked off on Ginsberg is just the medicine you received when you were doing your Ph.D., right? You are revealing the hypocrisy in the-cohorts-of-English-Dept.-academia's letting go half cocked off on the crimes of the whiteman's grave by using their tactics in your Ginsberg lambast, right? Do your really think his homosexuality adversely affects his poetry as Pound's fascism does his? (Great poetry, but the latter was a moron and the former a fag (a pitiful way of putting the whole thing, so revelatory of that yellow Puritan streak as Sawyer put it so eloquently). Matt PS Remember your bus driver disguise? When I started that thread about Spicer in the CyberCafe of Exquisite Corpse? I was some nobody that you had to condescend to by disguising yourself as a bus driver. But I was the dummy because I took the bait, not knowing who you were. And who are you anyways? Isn't the cyberspace so intriguing? Not at all like the C-Span camera that studies the face of a Powell in the hot seat. PPS You are right about the Islamic religion, though. I know, I lived in Saudi for a year. It struck me in the speech by the Iraqi ambassador to the US the other night on C-Span who spot on she was. She used a phrase that many foreigners have used who have experienced the oppressiveness living under such circumstances, "sensory deprivation." Indeed, as she said, the Iraqis have come out from under the pall of 35 years of that oppressive regime (and not exactly of the same nature as the religious oppressiveness of Saudi in its highly hypocritical aping of the role of the keepers of the Holy Shrines of Medina and Mecca (the princes have their own private airport when they return after drunken debauches in the fleshpots of Europe and Asia so the Wahabbis and the average citizen won't see them)). ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 23:55:49 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Camille Martin Subject: to see the universe in an oak leaf in florida MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Check out the interactive macro/micro unfolding universe in "Secret Worlds: The Universe Within": http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/powersof10/index.html "View the Milky Way at 10 million light years from the Earth. Then move through space towards the Earth in successive orders of magnitude until you reach a tall oak tree just outside the buildings of the National High Magnetic Field Laboratory in Tallahassee, Florida. After that, begin to move from the actual size of a leaf into a microscopic world that reveals leaf cell walls, the cell nucleus, chromatin, DNA and finally, into the subatomic universe of electrons and protons." If you select "manual" you can click from universe to quark in seconds flat. Puts life's problems in perspective (for a nanosecond, anyway) . . . & gives fresh significance to Blake's To see the universe in a grain of sand And a heaven in a wild flower, Hold infinity on the palm of your hand And eternity in an hour. Enjoy - Camille Camille Martin 7725 Cohn St. New Orleans, LA 70118 (504) 861-8832 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:08:27 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: to see the universe in an oak leaf in florida In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Different from or perhaps related to the quote from Blake, another shortcut to the stars, or, as today I happened to be reading : There was an elderly retired bootlegger in Newport 1955 who used to say, "I feel so good, I think I cut my sus- penders & go straight up." from the a notebooks of Philip Whalen Kyoto, 1969 > Check out the interactive macro/micro unfolding universe in "Secret Worlds: > The Universe Within": > > http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/powersof10/index.html > > "View the Milky Way at 10 million light years from the Earth. Then move > through space towards the Earth in successive orders of magnitude until you > reach a tall oak tree just outside the buildings of the National High > Magnetic Field Laboratory in Tallahassee, Florida. After that, begin to > move from the actual size of a leaf into a microscopic world that reveals > leaf cell walls, the cell nucleus, chromatin, DNA and finally, into the > subatomic universe of electrons and protons." > > If you select "manual" you can click from universe to quark in seconds > flat. Puts life's problems in perspective (for a nanosecond, anyway) . . . > & gives fresh significance to Blake's > > To see the universe in a grain of sand > And a heaven in a wild flower, > Hold infinity on the palm of your hand > And eternity in an hour. > > Enjoy - > > Camille > > > Camille Martin > 7725 Cohn St. > New Orleans, LA 70118 > (504) 861-8832 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:59:13 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Pam=20Brown?= Subject: Arch Bishop Pell (Rhymes with Hell) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alison Croggon, hi, you wrote- " I begin to understand better the full-on reaction some people have against religion. I come from a secular country (Australia)where church leaders of all stripes mainly confine themselves to public comments about social justice for the poor, for refugees, and the inadvisability of pursuing aggressive wars: and we don't put God on our money. (We have our own problems, of course). So I guess it's been educational for me, especially considering our government has now tied us, economically and culturally, ever closer to the States." Alison, Alison, Alison, Aren't you forgetting your very own Victorian archbishop Pell who is very vocal against homosexuality and NSW's very own Reverend Fred Nile who is lampooned every year in the annual Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras in Sydney. This year Archbishop Pell's lesbian cousin & her partner were given pride of place 9after dykes on bikes) and lead the parade. There are very vocal, public bigots & homophobes in the churches here in Australia. All the best, Pam All the best, Pam ===== Web site/Pam Brown - http://www.geocities.com/p.brown/ Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:08:08 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: Arch Bishop Pell (Rhymes with Hell) In-Reply-To: <20040324065913.12439.qmail@web12010.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hadn't forgotten Pam - (_Cardinal_ Pell now, and member of a venerable organisation which used to be called the Inquisition) - but also thinking of the very Catholic Edmund Rice Centre and its activism say on the fate of shadily deported asylum seekers - check out http://erc.org.au/ Cheers A On 24/3/04 5:59 PM, "Pam Brown" wrote: > Alison, Alison, Alison, > Aren't you forgetting your very own Victorian > archbishop Pell who is very vocal against > homosexuality and NSW's very own Reverend Fred Nile > who is lampooned every year in the annual Gay & > Lesbian Mardi Gras in Sydney. > This year Archbishop Pell's lesbian cousin & her > partner were given pride of place 9after dykes on > bikes) and lead the parade. > There are very vocal, public bigots & homophobes in > the churches here in Australia. > All the best, > Pam Alison Croggon Editor, Masthead http://www.masthead.net.au Home page http://www.alisoncroggon.com Blog http://alisoncroggon.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 23:23:39 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: last post! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed kirby, I had the displeasure of sitting in a smoke filled cafe ( I think back on it now and believe we called it a coffee house) in Greenwich village when I was a youth and being subjected to the pains of having to listen to A.G. read...though I can hardly call what he did reading. For my money, I'd take Ted Joans any day of the week over A.G. Joans had both melody and drama in his words and in his delivery...A.G. had a kind of pompous arrogance that overwhelmed his words during delivery. A.G. was an angry man; what exactly he was angry about, I couldn't really say, though I dare say, I could speculate, although I'd rather not. I was a nobody then (ooops still am, for that matter) and in reality, A. G. ten years or more my senior was too...though he appeared to be driven to become a somebody. To that end, I believe he succeeded. His name is after all known in a great many academic and artistic circles. But too, I also believe he was more concerned with his ultimate recognition and fame than he was with the depth or quality of is work. And keep in mind here, those words are my opinion, undocumented by any of his words, though enriched by my having attended several readings/performnces at which he delivered a message. While it is true, Ginsberg has the recognition that makes him a poet of stature in the country...perhaps even in the world, it is equally true to me that he was a troubled and driven man and a very poor poet. Alex >From: Kirby Olson >Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: last post! >Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:15:36 -0500 > >Joe, and everybody -- thanks so much for asking me to continue -- Alexander >Saliby, Larry Sawyer, Harry Nudel, Joseph Thomas, Joe Amato, and Ela K., >whose >post didn't exactly ask me to continue to post, but did such wonderfully >brilliant inventive things with the last 24 hours of mayhem that I felt >briefly >human again reading her amazing ins and outs. > >Because I have decided to keep this post mostly about poetry I wanted to >ask if >anybody else could see Ginsberg's Howl as a self-examination, with Moloch >as >the negative aspects of himself? > >I realize that the poem is largely self-mythologizing, and argues that a >band >of nutty people in and out of mental asylums are actually great heroes to >be >emulated, but in the Moloch section, if you replace Moloch with Ginsberg, >you >almost get an exact readout of what Norman Podhoretz was saying about >Ginsberg. Most of you probably know Podhoretz -- he went to Columbia with >Ginsberg and became a kind of bete noir for him. Podhoretz started out >with >the left but swung wildly to the right (I enjoy this kind of individual, as >I >rather like it when people aren't stuck in one groove their whole life as >they >smell less mouldy to me). > >Podhoretz said that inside Ginsberg he was actually an extremely angry man, >filled with raw hatred, who took pleasure in tearing down western >civilization >but had nothing to replace it with, and was the most violently competitive >person he had ever known. This drove Ginsberg insane. Ginsberg went to >the >nuthouse after he had scribbled anti-semitic stuff on a dorm wall at >Columbia, >and blamed it on the custodian (lovely thing to do). I can't remember the >details. > >I liked Ginsberg's Howl when I was 17. I thought it was important. Now >that >I'm almost 50 it seems shallow and poorly conceived, and not very >self-questioning. Obvously he's a great writer technically, but I also >think he >is letting a generation off the hook, and that's why he is really so >fascinating. The gnostic vision that he had (the surrealists were quite >similar) is that there is a massive conspiracy against the angel-headed >hipsters who are being locked up and driven crazy by the infernal state. >The >idea is to drive back and forth across America like two-year olds on >tricycles >going back and forth and never settling down or being responsible in the >slightest -- never having a family, or if you do want a wife having two or >three, and praising con artists and swindlers like Neal Cassady for having >broken "free." > >Free of responsibility. While that was probably appealing to teenagers >like >myself, I don't buy today either the gnostic vision that America has >nothing to >offer (if this was true why are so many people trying to get in here?), nor >do >I buy the lack of responsibility to wives and children among this gang of >arrested development cases. > >There is a fascinating and hilarious series of books by John Updike called >the >Rabbit Tetraology which offers a Lutheran critique of the Beat experience. >It >begins with Rabbit, Run. He is bugged by his wife, gets in his car and >drives >west, man, like > >To what extent does placing evil elsewhere, on to a system, or on to >others, >allow us to be utterly irresponsible to our own families and communities? >If >we posit a good and loving God, on the other hand, we suddenly have >responsibilities. It's a Copernican switch from love of kicks and thrills >to >neighborliness. It's a drag, true, man, like, but I think Ginsberg's >gnostic >God allows him all kinds of license. And it allows others license. > >Ok, I was asked to be brief. The collective paranoia of locating evil >elsewhere allows us to be irresponsible. I think this is the true source of >Ginsberg's celebrity. He provided a roadmap to a licentious gnostic >libertinism that was very appealing but that wasn't good for the next >generation. Nor, I would argue, was it good for the weaker members of >their >entourage. Not William Burroughs' poor wife, but his son -- born with a >heroin >addiction. Kerouac's pitiful alcoholism. > >This is why I think a new myth -- not Gnosticism -- but Lutheranism -- has >to >be developed to counter this problem. > >-- Kirby _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 02:39:45 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Fw: 12...A Day in the Life of a Boy... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Since i just sold this for 350.00 to an .edu...i guess i have a stake in this...$$$$>>++....argument... If you want to play the homo phobe card..i'll pick up the queen of hearts...i'm also elitist, sexist, ZIONIST, and anti-all but a few folk.. I'd rather frame the Ginsberg conundrum.....as the dif between private action and institutional coercion...what Allen G did or didn't do..in private is hiz biz... What he did do as a pub. rep. of an institution is here comes everybody's biz...it's the po biz of the whole communitas...pow.e.r. Anne Waldmann's pretty double speak dozn't bode well for the whole enterprise.. after the press release it's "that i know of" neocon hegemonic pathological.. Allen had a good side..that Anne saw..he also had a Baron de Charlus Perdu. side We're still sorting out Jefferson's sex life... 200 yrs later..and ritely so.. since it's at the root of America.. that's sans the special K.. I've heard a rumor.. told to me by two dif. poets..that upon Allen's death..the Gay Health Clinic was sporting a list of 200 ex-lovers he had inadvertently??? infected with Hepatitis C.. Rumors are better quashed by the truth..and i'd be happy if somebody who was on the case would refute this...i know this is asking a double-negative.. but people want to know.. If you want to disconnect the poet..from the body.. from the words..from the work....from the life.. you're left with "poetics' Three yrs ago..i bought a book..of innocent 3 to 5 year olds playing in the sand.. what interested me..was the time and date of pub..Berlin 1942...i sold it for 1,500.00 within a week.... It's a strange world..out there.. ....evol as we know can be spelled backwards...be careful drn... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 03:02:29 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Late Spring.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cold 3:00 looking for the alternate side Law & Order shooting 'et up all the parking spots I drive the extra block lost in America 'trane timed to eternity... drn... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 06:16:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: ko MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII somebody ko/ing ginsberg, nn's occidental motherfuckers i've wanted to write and quite unsure how to begin none of us are safe from attack innuendo there is no persepctive but the present which is always ripped apart ginsberg's howl freed me then and frees me now he was an outspoken jew among others and other things he read with the force of the rav derrida deconstructing abomb america i read him first at 13 then on and off forever but the point of the hatred here after the fact and the era coupled with anne's publicity blurb when something else was needed and over there on syndicate nn seems self-immolating whether she's a corporate entity on the run or someone going through a hard political time violence inheres to her, she drags the slaughter with her and it seems to me that the thugs in power have already won rumsfeld and hamas and israel all tearing everything limb from limb spam's brought 29% already using email less and less who wants to read the violence of viagra the violence of fraud bush and blair thug-script leaks into what was once communality and when i heard allen read it was that, community around him the gathering and the chanting which actually worked and overcame if just for a moment and nn had her sense of human but now drags skulls like i said, like i said my own words and works try to burst their bounds, there's more hatred there are mother-fuckers everywhere, why not deconstruct those words for myself, i have to admit indiscretions in the past psychological violence to other people, self-destruction, whimpering inability to see people for who or what they really are i'm more guilty than ginsberg, my soul is ash at best eleven years or so after auschwitz and he's penning howl against a smug america which today runs our country to the ground if we can't learn to listen, we won't die trying, we'll just die god or someone else help us, or someone else _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:57:18 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: What I Like About This List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" People really CARE on this list--about ideas, about poetry, about people. Sometimes that caring leads them to say hurtful, or ridiculous things, but it's all out of some passionate connection with the subject, with the moment. Sure, people should have the freedom to be outraged on this list--and they do--but I've witnessed some pretty remarkable things in the midst of the occasional mud-slinging and chaos. Things that have given me a new insight, a new angle on the subject I love. Every time I log on I learn something. One thing I can attest to is the caring that has been expressed both front and back-channel over the years for Cid and Shizumi. Many of you came through for them and I'm so grateful for that. The Buffalo list is wonderful--the energy and the intelligence in this forum has been a great resource, a great aid and a great inspiration. Esp. for someone far away from the New York Times and a bagel, cream cheese, and lox lunch! Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:29:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: schwartzgk Subject: Re: to see the universe in an oak leaf in florida MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you, Camille, very reminisent of a film that played on a loop at the Franklin Institute in Philadelphia back in the '60's. This display, however, takes our everything much further in and then out. --Jerry Schwartz > Check out the interactive macro/micro unfolding universe in "Secret Worlds: > The Universe Within": > > http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/powersof10/index.html > > "View the Milky Way at 10 million light years from the Earth. Then move > through space towards the Earth in successive orders of magnitude until you > reach a tall oak tree just outside the buildings of the National High > Magnetic Field Laboratory in Tallahassee, Florida. After that, begin to > move from the actual size of a leaf into a microscopic world that reveals > leaf cell walls, the cell nucleus, chromatin, DNA and finally, into the > subatomic universe of electrons and protons." > > If you select "manual" you can click from universe to quark in seconds > flat. Puts life's problems in perspective (for a nanosecond, anyway) . . . > & gives fresh significance to Blake's > > To see the universe in a grain of sand > And a heaven in a wild flower, > Hold infinity on the palm of your hand > And eternity in an hour. > > Enjoy - > > Camille > > > Camille Martin > 7725 Cohn St. > New Orleans, LA 70118 > (504) 861-8832 > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:48:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nada Gordon Subject: Rodefer/Gordon/BPC/3-27 + PARTY Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" MARCH 27 STEPHEN RODEFER and NADA GORDON Stephen Rodefer is the author of Four Lectures, VILLON by Jean Calais, Passing Duration, Left Under a Cloud, Mon Canard, and many other notes & tones. He is on the outside of the inside and at the center of whole shebang. Don't, Miss! Nada Gordon practices Poetry as Deep Entertainment. She is the author of V. Imp. (Faux Press), Swoon (Granary Books), Are Not Our Lowing Heifers Sleeker than Night-Swollen Mushrooms? (Spuyten Duyvil), and Foriegnn Bodie (Detour). Her fleeting and contingent musings can be found at http://ululate.blogspot.com. @ the Bowery Poetry Club 308 BOWERY, JUST NORTH OF HOUSTON SATURDAYS FROM 4 - 6 PM $5 admission goes to support the readers Curated by Dan Machlin & Charles Borkhuis &&&&&&&&&&& Join us later for a party for the readers at Charles Borkhuis' pad 104 E. 4th St, - D1 (betwn. 1st & 2nd Ave.) 8 PM - 12 PM (212) 473-1744 -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:15:48 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Ginsberg "creepiest" -- Nudel "cool"???? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Mr. Nudel, hoping you can clear up a little something. so why is it that back on the 17th you had this to say to reference to Ginsberg's alleged advances toward his students: "tho the regent was far creepier... and Allen G was the creepiest.." then days later, when all the heat is turned way up on your choice of words you had this to say: "someone asked why i didn't argue with Allen G when he made his 'to coin a phrase' smart ass remark.. he wasn't talking to me.. i overheard it..& more i was too busy trying to sleep with my own students (without much success)" so when Ginsberg does it it's "creepy" but when you do it it's what? cool? you're just this cool guy all of a sudden? why is it that you were judging Ginsberg like you're some uptight old biddy always looking out the window to keep an eye on the activity on the street, but as soon as you get called on it, you're just one of the guys? can you PLEASE tell us? does it mean you were also creepy? or does it mean that Ginsberg was creepy (excuse me, i believe you actually said that he was the "creepiest") for exercising his libido because he was what? because he was not using deodorant he was creepy? what was it that made him so creepy, while with your situation it was so smooth? (despite the fact you say that you weren't getting any. which is just more deflection as far as i'm concerned. all of a sudden you want to appear cool, but not too cool, oh no, not as cool as Ginsberg. because this is you now --in a way-- wanting us to believe that Ginsberg is cooler because he's actually getting ass. are you actually trying to squeeze some weird sympathy after all you've said?) please share with the list the reason for your sudden shift in feelings about the situation of sleeping with students? thanks so much for the trouble you smooth talker you, CAConrad ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:02:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Floodeditions@AOL.COM Subject: Pastorelles by John Taggart MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Forthcoming in April: PASTORELLES by John Taggart 0-9746902-1-x $13.95 In Pastorelles, Taggart draws on the local culture of rural Pennsylvania to consider the permutations of the human mark. An abandoned one-room schoolhouse, a page from an accounting ledger, a covered bridge still in use: each offers a "glance / perhaps all that was ever possible" into what persists. With wry humor, these poems attend to the ecology of language in a season of drought. Robert Creeley writes: "John Taggart has long been master of accumulating, complexly layered patterns of sound and sense, and here he uses his formal powers with a perfect, unobtrusive authority. In these modest 'songs' of quiet reflection Taggart echoes the world in which he’s lived, making particular the mind and heart's persistent need. If poetry has abiding value, and it has, it is because it can so articulate, as here, all that a life comes to care about - and all that it, so defined, ever is." DISCOUNT. Send a check for eleven dollars made out to Flood Editions, and we will send you this title when it's out next month. If you have any questions, contact: dev@floodeditions.com Still Available Ronald Johnson, The Shrubberies. $14.00 Pam Rehm, Gone to Earth. $10.00 Tom Pickard, Hole in the Wall. $15.00 Philip Jenks, On the Cave You Live In. $10.00 Fanny Howe, Economics. $14.00 Paul Hoover, Winter (Mirror). $13.00 William Fuller, Sadly. $13.00 Robert Duncan, Letters. $16.95 Graham Foust, As in Every Deafness. $13.00 Lisa Jarnot, Black Dog Songs. $13.00 John Tipton, Surfaces. $13.00 Order directly from the publisher, or through Small Press Distribution: www.spdbooks.org. For more information see our website: www.floodeditions.com. Founded in Chicago in 2001, Flood Editions is a 501(c)3 nonprofit corporation. Flood Editions dev@floodeditions.com www.floodeditions.com PO Box 3865 Chicago IL 60654-0865 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:18:28 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Re: Fw: 12...A Day in the Life of a Boy... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed "I've heard a rumor.. >told to me by two dif. >poets..that upon Allen's >death..the Gay Health >Clinic was sporting >a list of 200 ex-lovers >he had inadvertently??? >infected with Hepatitis C.." I've heard a rumor told to me from many poets that upon Harry Nudel's life, a Buffalo List of over 200 writers were inadvertantly??? infected with bitterness, misery & intolerance. "Rumors are better quashed >by the truth..and i'd be happy >if somebody who was on the >case would refute this...i know >this is asking a double-negative.. >but people want to know.." >From: Harry Nudel >Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Fw: 12...A Day in the Life of a Boy... >Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 02:39:45 -0500 > > Since i just sold this for 350.00 > to an .edu...i guess i have a stake >in this...$$$$>>++....argument... > > If you want to play the homo >phobe card..i'll pick up the queen >of hearts...i'm also elitist, sexist, >ZIONIST, and anti-all but a few folk.. > > I'd rather frame the Ginsberg >conundrum.....as the dif >between private action and >institutional coercion...what >Allen G did or didn't do..in >private is hiz biz... > > What he did do as >a pub. rep. of an institution >is here comes everybody's >biz...it's the po biz of the >whole communitas...pow.e.r. > > Anne Waldmann's pretty >double speak dozn't bode >well for the whole enterprise.. >after the press release it's >"that i know of" neocon >hegemonic pathological.. > > Allen had a good side..that >Anne saw..he also had a >Baron de Charlus Perdu. >side > > We're still sorting out >Jefferson's sex life... >200 yrs later..and ritely so.. >since it's at the root of America.. >that's sans the special K.. > > I've heard a rumor.. >told to me by two dif. >poets..that upon Allen's >death..the Gay Health >Clinic was sporting >a list of 200 ex-lovers >he had inadvertently??? >infected with Hepatitis C.. > > Rumors are better quashed >by the truth..and i'd be happy >if somebody who was on the >case would refute this...i know >this is asking a double-negative.. >but people want to know.. > > If you want to disconnect >the poet..from the body.. >from the words..from the >work....from the life.. >you're left with "poetics' > > Three yrs ago..i bought >a book..of innocent 3 to 5 >year olds playing in the sand.. >what interested me..was the >time and date of pub..Berlin >1942...i sold it for 1,500.00 >within a week.... > > It's a strange world..out there.. >....evol as we know >can be spelled backwards...be >careful > > drn... _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:36:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Thomas Subject: Re: to see the universe in Homer's head In-Reply-To: <000801c411ac$6109dd20$dddb4242@rochester.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Pop culture has produced a similar trip: the opening of a recent Simpsons episode featured an unfolding much like the flordia oakleaf bit, though there's involved a literal "universe within." Their trip begins in the Simpsons' living room, pulling out farther and farther until the universe is just a field of black, then subatomic particles appear, atoms, cells, etc. until we emerge out of Homer's head. Best, Joseph --- schwartzgk wrote: > Thank you, Camille, very reminisent of a film that > played on a loop at the Franklin Institute in > Philadelphia back in the '60's. > > This display, however, takes our everything > much further in and then out. > > --Jerry Schwartz > > > Check out the interactive macro/micro unfolding > universe in "Secret > Worlds: > > The Universe Within": > > > > > http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/powersof10/index.html > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:08:45 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: waldman... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" hear hear for anne waldman!... discussing dead (or living) poets' biographies is one thing, but smear campaigns are another... innuendo and insinuation are bringing this list to another breakpoint---witness a few folks having already decided to sign off... is this what we want?... who we?... you can't stop a thought, maybe, but we ought at least to hold ourselves accountable for what we're saying... i.e., for the effect saying such & such has in a forum such as this one... it's not simply about hurting others' feelings, if that too... in terms of communication, it's about proceeding as if one's ejaculations, or whatever, are ipso facto warranted simply b/c one *can* express same... ok: so i have a real problem, and am having more and more of a problem, with harry nudel's and kirby olson's posts, not for what they say, but for what they leave unsaid... they evidence a lack not simply of restraint, but of care... kirby (if i may): you are not going to convert this list into lutheran central, i think you know that by now... dr. n (if i may): you need to get out of cryptic mode, breathe some bright fucking air, and say what's on your mind, b/c your posts of late are the essence of creepy, and sly creepy at that... at the risk of appearing sappy, how bout a little paul simon, which i ought to apply more often to my undef self: "honesty/it's such a waste of energy/no you don't have to lie to me/just give me some tenderness/beneath your honesty"... to be candid, i just don't know what you fellas are hoping to accomplish, and your feints at outsider or provocateur status are feeling to this listmember not a little self-aggrandizing.... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:12:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: ko In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit A generational hug for you Alan. Thanks again - as these times seem to call - for screeching it out in good measure. Stephen Vincent > somebody ko/ing ginsberg, nn's occidental motherfuckers > > i've wanted to write and quite unsure how to begin > none of us are safe from attack innuendo > there is no persepctive but the present which is always ripped apart > > ginsberg's howl freed me then and frees me now > he was an outspoken jew among others and other things > he read with the force of the rav derrida deconstructing abomb america > i read him first at 13 then on and off forever > > but the point of the hatred here after the fact and the era > coupled with anne's publicity blurb when something else was needed > > and over there on syndicate nn seems self-immolating > whether she's a corporate entity on the run > or someone going through a hard political time > violence inheres to her, she drags the slaughter with her > > and it seems to me that the thugs in power have already won > rumsfeld and hamas and israel all tearing everything limb from limb > spam's brought 29% already using email less and less > who wants to read the violence of viagra the violence of fraud > > bush and blair thug-script leaks into what was once communality > and when i heard allen read it was that, community around him > the gathering and the chanting which actually worked and overcame > if just for a moment > > and nn had her sense of human but now drags skulls > like i said, like i said > my own words and works try to burst their bounds, there's more hatred > > there are mother-fuckers everywhere, why not deconstruct those words > > for myself, i have to admit indiscretions in the past > psychological violence to other people, self-destruction, whimpering > inability to see people for who or what they really are > i'm more guilty than ginsberg, my soul is ash at best > > eleven years or so after auschwitz and he's penning howl > against a smug america which today runs our country to the ground > > if we can't learn to listen, we won't die trying, we'll just die > > god or someone else help us, or someone else > > > _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:14:44 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: waldman... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" oh and btw: hate to eat and run, as it were, but assuming i'm to be treated to little tirades here in the wake of my last post, i suppose i should say i'll be away from the box and unable to respond until perhaps sunday... i might not respond anyway, given how responses around here are themselves turning into occasions for further insinuation... hope to see some of you at awp in chicago!---b/c lord knows, those of us working on the small presses could stand some camaraderie in the midst of that crowd... peace out/// joe ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:57:28 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Lisa Robertson Reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Writers' Alliance of Newfoundland and Labrador presents Paris-based, Canadian poet and essayist Lisa Robertson. Saturday, March 27 8:00 pm The Studio (above Auntie Craes) 272 Water Street. Free. Widely lauded for her inexhaustibly rich, intelligent poetry, Robertson has published four books of poetry including the 2002 Relit Award for Poetry winner, The Weather and Debbie: An Epic, a finalist for the 1998 Governor General's Award. Books in Canada calls Robertson, "one of our most important, and most interesting poets." 'In this so-often-impersonal book (which is no small crime for a female writer), she lets the landscape narrate, and from this newly constructed body politic, a collective tells the tale. The writing of the weather descriptions (which, I must admit, instantly changed mine) is incantatory. ... Dazzling!' -Eileen Myles, The Nation about The Weather Her most recent book is Occasional Works and Seven Walks from the Office For Soft Architecture (Clear Cut Press), a linked series of prose walks and essays on city space, architectural history, and decorative design. The Office for Soft Architecture, headquartered in Vancouver, B.C., constructs propositions and documents for the advancement of a natural history of civic surface. Ms. Robertson also contributes a regular decorating horoscope to Nest: A Quarterly of Interiors, under the pen name Swann. Her essays on the visual arts appear frequently in gallery catalogues, and her essays and reviews on poetry have been published by The Globe and Mail, American Book Review, Stand, The Poetry Project Newsletter, and The Stranger. In 1999 she was a visiting fellow at Cambridge University and writer-in-residence at the University of California at San Diego, and at Capilano College in North Vancouver. Saturday, March 27 8:00 pm The Studio (above Auntie Craes) 272 Water Street For more information please contact WANL at 739 - 5215 Here are some links to her writing on-line. It should give you an idea of what she is all about: http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~poetry/robertson.html http://www.va.com.au/parallel/x2/journal/lisa_robertson/phatic.html http://www.arcadejournal.com/v20_3txt2.html http://www.arcadejournal.com/v20_3txt9.html This has a link to a reading in Philadelphia. IN her preamble she explains how the nightly nautical weather reports became source material for the book, The Weather http://phillytalks.org/content/11080/ The first five pages of this PDF file are from her book The Weather. http://slought.org/files/downloads/domains/phillytalks/pdf/pt17.pdf W is the journal of the Kootaney School of Writing. Lisa has something inv 1 and 6 http://www.kswnet.org/ http://www.kswnet.org/w/index.html This a site developed by a guy at U Calgary http://www.housepress.ca/lisa.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:09:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII we are a congregation ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:05:03 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cyrill Duneau Subject: the wine-dark see Comments: To: "CYBERMIND@LISTSERV.AOL.COM" , "mayakovsky@yahoogroups.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit the end of it all don't know what to do the right thing at the right time On the last day up fierce and tender; a sorrowful going out of my mind Looking Down/Eclipse/The Circular neglecting my bed, stark dead, to the point of non-existence the wine-dark see ended it through text messages and phone calls 'Leave such desires,' that shall I never do collapsing down I am left here alone with my enemies and eventually evaporate This is somewhat revised the world going to end sorry for the incoherent decrypted pgp encryption I tried so hard Or, worse still A dark line "it might never happen." punished me with imagination "I think it already has." Shut down someone somewhere crackdown It doesn’t even matter ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 02:35:54 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: DAK & GERM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 The other day David Kirschenbaum was more than happy to give me a tour of his pad and show me the way around his archives. I am most appreciative of his honesty (he called me bad names but gave me free stuff!) and his character, and want to thank him in PUBLIC for his tour and friendship. There is one thing that appears on his shelf, a mag called THE GERM: JOURNAL OF POETIC RESEARCH. I'm looking all over for this damn mag because it doesn't appear in any of the bookstores around the area nor do the libraries in the University of Maryland system carry it. Is there anybody out there (sorry, Roger) who can point me in the direction of picking up some copies? Is there a website (there appears to be none)? Someone want to send me a stash of extras? David, thanks for an amazing time in NYC, you made home feel like HOME (because sometimes home feels like hOmE). And Sarah thinks yr the evil genius. Grazie e ciao, Chris -- _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:49:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: waldman... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Joe, May I chop up your message? > hear hear for anne waldman!... Seconded. I thought her words beautiful, and while I don't know what her intended effect was, they have had the effect of causing Harry to increasingly drop his "think of the children" line and replace it more and more with "think of that disguisting old queer." So nice to see people speak what's really on their mind. It means that those of us who are willing to ignore them can do so with more ease. > discussing dead (or living) poets' biographies is one thing, but > smear campaigns are another... innuendo and insinuation are bringing > this list to another breakpoint---witness a few folks having already > decided to sign off... May I seriously inquire as to how often this list reaches "another breakpoint?" > you can't stop a thought, maybe, but we ought at least to hold > ourselves accountable for what we're saying... i.e., for the effect > saying such & such has in a forum such as this one... it's not simply > about hurting others' feelings, if that too... in terms of > communication, it's about proceeding as if one's ejaculations, or > whatever, are ipso facto warranted simply b/c one *can* express > same... This is one of the basic lessons of adulthood. On the other hand, so is not allowing children to throw you into a sulk. > at the risk of appearing sappy, how bout a little paul simon, which i > ought to apply more often to my undef self: "honesty/it's such a > waste of energy/no you don't have to lie to me/just give me some > tenderness/beneath your honesty"... Humor rocks. > to be candid, i just don't know what you fellas are hoping to > accomplish, and your feints at outsider or provocateur status are > feeling to this listmember not a little self-aggrandizing.... I can see why you would say that, but to call oneself a poet without being self-aggrandizing seems roughly like calling oneself a Republican without taking orders from one's robot masters. The role of poet not only assumes that one is qualified to discuss life's headiest concepts with more concision and beauty than the best writer of prose, while using a manner of dialogue deliberately intended to be divorced from uncreative speech, but assumes that the poet's pursuit is worthwhile in the face of the utter apathy of the rest of humanity. The self-aggrandizement required to sign on to a poetics list beats that implied by excessive iconoclasm, any day. Kirby has said that his goal is not to sway people, but to clarify his "Lutheran surrealism" in his own mind, while taking notes on reactions. (If he's also said the opposite, I've missed it.) The strengthening of a philosophy is a group goal, even if only one person is focused on it, and so long as he can handle criticism when his arguments are weak and/or beyond all social mores, such behavior furthers the goal of a poetic discussion group. I'm starting to think Harry's genuine goal is to make people unhappy, but as long as it's on a voluntary basis, he's providing a service, also. (Please feel free to offer a rebuttal, Harry, which I assure you I will not take personally.) -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:04:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Without a hitch... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable EMAIL THIS Email Laura Bush fetes Southern writers at White House symposium - Mar 22, = 2004... without a hitch... without any reality in the now! =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 CNN.com - Laura Bush fetes Southern writers at White House = symposium - Mar 22, 2004* =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:00:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Veil, Language of Bouquets, Shadowtime Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed New at http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/new.html two web editions of works of visual writing: Language of Bouquets (1991) Veil (1976) Also Excerpts from Shadowtime, published in the March *Forward*, with commentary by Rodger Kamenetz at http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/poems/forward/forward.html . (Shadowtime -- a libretto in/on/around the work of Walter Benjamin, written for composer Brian Ferneyhough -- opens in Munich in May and will be coming to the Lincoln Center Festival in July 2005.) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:35:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: travis ortiz Subject: Re: THE GERM In-Reply-To: <20040324183554.707833AA466@ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > There is one thing > that appears on his shelf, a mag called THE GERM: JOURNAL OF > POETIC RESEARCH. I'm looking all over for this damn mag > because it doesn't appear in any of the bookstores around the > area nor do the libraries in the University of Maryland > system carry it. Is there anybody out there (sorry, Roger) > who can point me in the direction of picking up some copies? > Is there a website (there appears to be none)? Someone want > to send me a stash of extras? here's the URL for THE GERM http://www.durationpress.com/germ/ check out the other sites hosted by duration press too (www.durationpress.com). it's well worth the look. jerrold shiroma has done the poetry community a great service by hosting many of our web sites (by the way my & lyn hejinian's site: www.atelos.org). you can get the germ from Small Press Distribution (www.spdbooks.org) i believe. best, travis ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:48:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Jerrold Shiroma [ duration press ]" Subject: Re: THE GERM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit for those interested, here's a (I think) complete list of websites either to be found at the durationpress.com site, or hosted by myself...there should be links to each of them from the duration homepage... 2nd Story Books 26 Magazine a+bend Press Adventures in Poetry Aerial Magazine / Edge Books Agrivulture Amiri Baraka Atelos Avec Books Avenue B BeautifulSwimmer Press Belladonna Books Bird Dog Magazine Black Square Editions Blazevox Brooklyn Drama Club Burning Deck Conundrum Crayon Magazine Cuneiform Press Cy Press DCPoetry Diæresis double change dusie.org Etherdome Factorial The Figures Five Fingers Review Vernon Frazer Futurepoem The Germ Arielle Greenberg Habenicht Press Hypobololemaioi Interlope Ixnay Serena Jost Kenning Krupskaya Leroy Lime Tree Litmus Press / Aufgabe Manifest Press Meritage Press Metadada Monadology Morningred Nedge Magazine New American Writing No: A Journal of the Arts Omnidawn The Owl Press Paradigm Press Pavement Saw Press Play: A Journal of Plays Pom Pom Press Potes & Poets Press Pressed Wafer Kristin Prevallet Primitive Publications Puppy Flowers Qua Books rinnsal.net Seattle Research Institute Skanky Possum Smashclub Soul Search Music Soul Search Productions Spectacular Books Subpress The Tangent Press Third Factory Tougher Disguises The Transcendental Friend Todd Horton Tripwire Tuumba Press Xpressed Zasterle Rachel Zucker ----- Original Message ----- From: "travis ortiz" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 2:35 PM Subject: Re: THE GERM > > > There is one thing > > that appears on his shelf, a mag called THE GERM: JOURNAL OF > > POETIC RESEARCH. I'm looking all over for this damn mag > > because it doesn't appear in any of the bookstores around the > > area nor do the libraries in the University of Maryland > > system carry it. Is there anybody out there (sorry, Roger) > > who can point me in the direction of picking up some copies? > > Is there a website (there appears to be none)? Someone want > > to send me a stash of extras? > > > here's the URL for THE GERM > http://www.durationpress.com/germ/ > > check out the other sites hosted by duration press too > (www.durationpress.com). it's well worth the look. jerrold shiroma has > done the poetry community a great service by hosting many of our web > sites (by the way my & lyn hejinian's site: www.atelos.org). > > you can get the germ from Small Press Distribution (www.spdbooks.org) i > believe. > > best, > travis > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:59:54 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Pam=20Brown?= Subject: v. worthy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Alison , hello, Thanks for your worthy recommendation ... yes, remember liberation theology etc etc Best wishes from Pam >Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:08:08 +1100 >From: Alison Croggon >Subject: Re: Arch Bishop Pell (Rhymes with Hell) >Hadn't forgotten Pam - (_Cardinal_ Pell now, and >member of a venerable >organisation which used to be called the Inquisition) >- but also >thinking of >the very Catholic Edmund Rice Centre and its activism >say on the fate >of >shadily deported asylum seekers - check out >http://erc.org.au/ >Cheers >A ===== Web site/Pam Brown - http://www.geocities.com/p.brown/ Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:25:17 +1030 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Bolton Subject: Re: THE GERM In-Reply-To: <000101c411f0$488908e0$6401a8c0@travis> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I bought the GERM from Small Press Distribution, California Cheers Ken Bolton ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 23:08:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Taylor Subject: The Naked Readings this Sunday! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Naked Readings :Poetry:Music:Art:Life:Art:Music:Poetry: Open mic. poetry series Sunday March 28th 7-10pm Featured Poet Grisel Music by Roia Rafieyan Paintings by Antonio Nogueira @ Makeready's Gallery 214 Artspace 214 Glenridge Avenue Montclair, NJ 973-744-1940 $5 donation, refreshments served ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.SpiralBridge.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Directions to GALLERY 214 - From GSP, exit 151, west on Watchung Ave, 1.5 miles to RR overpass, left on Park St. go 1.1 miles, left on Bloomfield Ave., 2 lights to N. Willow St.; At North Willow St turn right, go one block to Glenridge Ave. turn left, go 1 1/2 blocks. Rtes. 3 & 46, exit "Valley Rd, Montclair", south 4.3 miles, left on Bloomfield Ave, 3 lights to N. Willow. At North Willow St turn left, go one block to Glenridge Ave. turn left, go 1 1/2 blocks. From Route 280 exit 8B Prospect Ave. north 2 miles, right on Bloomfield Ave. 1 mile to N. Willow St.; at North Willow St turn left, go one block to Glenridge Ave. turn left, go 1 1/2 blocks. From Port Authority, NYC, DeCamp Bus #33 or #66 to Bloomfield Ave., Montclair ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.SpiralBridge.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 01:08:17 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kwsherwood@AOL.COM Subject: John Taggart - Western Penn - 30 March 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No idea if some fellow west-Pennsylvanians lurk on the list, but as I'm regulary tantalized by notice of events in San Francisco or London, I'll take the liberty of inviting all ... near or far...John Taggart reading in Indiana, PA (50 miles east of Pittsburg) next Tuesday. Ken Sherwood [Please - no thread stream on the anti-poeticity of the press release] ---------------------------------------- Noted Pennsylvania Poet Inaugurates Visiting Writers Series A widely published poet-critic, John Taggart will perform work from his forthcoming book at 7pm on Tuesday, 30 March 2004, in the University Square Building, 1176 Grant Street, Indiana, PA. The first event in the new OffPage Visiting Writer series, it is free and open to the public. Taggart's modern poetry incorporates his intimate knowledge of art, music, and spirituality. His work has been praised as "a poetry of remarkable presence and power." Another critic notes, "I know of none who in the present can so flood the soul with melody." Author of more than a dozen books, including Song of Degrees: Essays on Contemporary Poetry and Poetics, and the highly-regarded poetry collections Dodeka, Peace on Earth, and When the Saints, Taggart is also the former director of the Interdisciplinary Arts Program at Shippensburg University. He often meditates on composers, singers, painters, or sculptors, and has released several audio recordings. OffPage: A Visiting Writer Event is sponsored by the IUP College of Humanities and Social Sciences, Department of English, and Graduate Studies in Literature and Criticism, with the Commonplace Coffeehouse. Kenneth Sherwood, a new Assistant Professor of English at IUP, organized the event as a complement to his graduate course in poetry performance and other creative writing opportunities at IUP. For information, contact: www.chss.iup.edu/sherwood/offpage or Email: Kenneth Sherwood sherwood@iup.edu or Phone: 724-357-2981 # # # _________________________________________ Kenneth Sherwood, PhD Assistant Professor of English Indiana University of Pennsylvania 110 Leonard Hall Indiana, PA 15701 Sherwood@iup.edu www.chss.iup.edu/sherwood ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 22:12:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Cid Corman -Zukofsky -Whalen Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This morning - rereading Zukofsky's "A-21" & remembering sitting with Cid Corman in Kyoto one warm July afternoon (1988) on the patio outside a coffee shop near the front of the Ryoanji Temple entrance. The way his hands held an edition of one of the early sections of "A" - the open pages fully engaged with penciled notes, wrinkled from years of reading and rereading - as if, I thought then, in possession of a sacred instrument - and his expressed commitment to write an exhaustive interpretation. Did that work ever see the light of "published" day? I do not know. Also, yesterday, while reading Philip Whalen's Kyoto notebooks (1969 - 1970) in the Bancroft Library seeing evidence of meetings between the two, not enough to register the depth of that. One suspects two giants - occasionally rubbing shoulders and figuring ways to continue to connect with American literary life - while both lived in enormous social isolation. Philip's Kyoto journals - in addition to the daily attentions - are full of reflections on many political and material aspects of American life - railing about capitalism, protestantism, etc. - combined with many loving dream childhood episodes of being with his family in Oregon. Interesting to also note his interest in Wallace Stevens and Dame Edith Sitwell - a joy in Dylan Thomas's stories and disinterest in the sound of his "clattering" verse. And great drawings - caricatures - with colored inks and often hilarious commentary on the visual content. But also obviously a psychically hard, sometimes harrowing time, figuring out where he can ever fit either into an American life (literary, at least) and/or a full acceptance - the initiation and commitment - into a Buddhist religious vocation: 30:VIII:69 Wasp in the bookshelves rejects Walt Whitman, Herman Melville, Emily Dickenson, the Goldiard Poets, A vedic Reader, Lama Govinda, Medieval French verses & romances, Long Discourse of the Buddha and the Principal Upanishads. The window glass reads more enter- tainingly, but soon she leaves that for the fox tail grass the camellia hedge the dull mid-morning sun. Philip Whalen, Kyoto Notebook (Bancroft Library, Berkeley, California) It is interesting to me now how the journal form renders up - or can - the geological under-scape of an artist's life - the slow, meandering, the lost parts, the inner-boilings and sufferings without form, so many vague shadows on the wall - all of which precede the formulations found in the well made poem and/or the release of a sequence. I suspect it's the "successful" artist/poet's anguish to have his or her life utterly & perpetually read and confused with the delight and order found in finished works. Such deceptions! Stephen Vincent Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 23:13:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: new materials Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed new book on the market: "Burn" by Jennifer Natalya Fink www.suspectthought.com An interesting and amusing tale told in the tradition of some of the world's most capable storytellers...read it! There are communists, naked folks, and even some fundamental idiots. alex _________________________________________________________________ All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by ESPN. http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 02:21:03 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Summer Job Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit haberdasher scum noodle infected creepiest "i;ll spit on yr grave" with a little better ed.. u can get to 'cosmopolite' if i spread any more vicious rumors can i get a summer gig at Naropa like Baraka... i'm sorry to confuse C.A.Conrad... you smooth talker you.. or u smooth talker u... p.o.w.er.... always changes the subject & issues a press release... a simple no it's not a true story about Allen G spreading Hepatitis C would've sufficed this list will end in both fire & not so... drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 02:38:22 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Late Spring... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cold aft. wind 'blood' sez the unfinished past is like the future his voice the guitar's rasp sweet whine deep hone cold aft. wind drn....15 to 3:00..the deep hr...3/25//04 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:25:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: box and dddance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII recent move at http://www.asondheim.org/box.mov as box.mov transforms into dusk 5.mov box.mov towards cobalt blue as as as chorus.mov cube.mov dddance.mov as quick overlay goes nowhere deathfugue.mov endofempire.mov europe1915.mov heap.mov jumpin.mov jumpinn.mov lastempire.mov ocean.mov ruined.mov start.mov start2.mov tao.mov tao0.mov tao2.mov tra.mov wtc.mov xzais.mov portal/V.mov portal/b2s.mov portal/baghdad.mov portal/cal.mov portal/life.mov portal/nova.mov portal/red.mov portal/.nikuko/k.mov portal/.nikuko/terror00.mov portal/.nikuko/terror01.mov portal/.nikuko/terror02.mov portal/.nikuko/terror03.mov portal/.nikuko/terror06.mov portal/.nikuko/terror07.mov portal/.nikuko/terror10.mov portal/.nikuko/terror11.mov portal/.nikuko/terror14.mov portal/.nikuko/terror16.mov portal/.nikuko/where.mov __ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:48:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Joyous Birthday... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A Joyous, Happy Birthday to =20 Maestro Cecil Taylor! -- Jerry Schwartz www.geocities.com/legible5roses ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:03:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: action needed in Minnesota, Georgia, Arizona, and Massachusetts!!! In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040312153151.03d12020@writing.upenn.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable please forward!!! http://transdada.blogspot.com/ action needed in Minnesota, Georgia, Arizona, and Massachusetts!!! **Minnesota House approves bill to ban gay marriage , call today do not=20= let it pass the senate ***In Atlanta Democrats take heat for stalled gay marriage vote ****Arizona its time to take action call your representatives=20 today...state senators are expected to cast preliminary votes today *** In Massachusetts State Senate President Robert E. Travaglini began=20= drumming up support yesterday for a more "clear and precise"=20 constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage and create civil unions. =20= this is a compromise with a separate but equal clause.. call your state=20= representatives today.. to not let them take a vote on this... today @ http://transdada.blogspot.com/ Thursday, March 25, 2004 -County clergy members aim to stamp out homophobia -Democrats take heat for stalled gay marriage vote - Atlanta -Arizona ~ votes today -Gay gov't employees lose their protection -Citing SJC ruling, judge dissolves gay civil union -Gay marriage: Many gay youths agree they need to keep fighting for=20 rights -Gay fraternity wins UVa council's approval -Gay Couple Gets Death Threats -Anti-gay group plans protest at pastor's church -Local gays, lesbians gather to support same-sex marriage -Florida. Wednesday, March 24, 2004 @ http://transdada.blogspot.com/ -7 out of 8 speakers support same-sex marriages -CHAPEL HILL -Speaker addresses LBGT identity, oppression issues - this is a very=20 good piece.. -Judy Shepard speaks to FGCU crowd about hate crimes, gay marriage ban -IOWA RESPECTS EQUALITY IN CONSTITUTION -Gay men liable to jail for life in Zanzibar -NGLTF launches night of marriage equality on May 16 -Utah Governor Signs Bill Enhancing Gay Marriage Ban -Former G-O-P congressman denounces gay marriage amendment -Pelosi says supports gay marriage, Newsom's action -Schism Looms After Lesbian Methodist Acquittal -District's stance against transgender policy threatens budget -call for queers to converge in Boston July 26-29, at the time of the=20 Democratic -House approves bill for gay marriage amendment- St. Paul, Minn. =97 -The Catholic war against gay marriage -Senate Narrowly Defeats Gay Marriage Ban - Iowa -- -UN to vote on gay rights -Parents complain, district investigates gay teacher's remarks -Gay marriage amendment author on defense -King's widow condemns proposed gay marriage ban -Log Cabin Republicans Urge Senate to Reject Any Anti-Family=20 Constitutional Amendment -Santa Cruz City Council votes to support gay marriage -ACLU, gay couples sue to uphold same-sex marriage in Oregon -Report: Military Gay Dismissals Down and more @ http://transdada.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:54:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lucas Klein Subject: Re: Cid Corman -Zukofsky -Whalen / CipherJournal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Recently Mark DuCharme sent out a plug for my online literary magazine of creative translation, www.CipherJournal.com. I'd like to reiterate that plug (look at www.CipherJournal.com! It's new and exciting and great!), and appeal for submissions in honor of Cid Corman. I'm particularly looking for prose that would send more people into the libraries in search of Corman's journals, translations, and poems. But of course the best writing will prevail, and all accounts--in poetry, in prose, in translation--featuring good writing will find a home on CipherJournal. As always, the journal is open to all comments, submissions, and questions. Lucas ________________________________________ "The great enemy of clear language is insincerity." --George Orwell Lucas Klein LKlein@cipherjournal.com 11 Pearl Street New Haven, CT 06511 ph: 203 676 0629 www.CipherJournal.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Vincent" To: Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:12 AM Subject: Cid Corman -Zukofsky -Whalen > This morning - rereading Zukofsky's "A-21" & remembering sitting with Cid > Corman in Kyoto one warm July afternoon (1988) on the patio outside a coffee > shop near the front of the Ryoanji Temple entrance. The way his hands held > an edition of one of the early sections of "A" - the open pages fully > engaged with penciled notes, wrinkled from years of reading and rereading - > as if, I thought then, in possession of a sacred instrument - and his > expressed commitment to write an exhaustive interpretation. > > Did that work ever see the light of "published" day? I do not know. > > Also, yesterday, while reading Philip Whalen's Kyoto notebooks (1969 - 1970) > in the Bancroft Library seeing evidence of meetings between the two, not > enough to register the depth of that. One suspects two giants - occasionally > rubbing shoulders and figuring ways to continue to connect with American > literary life - while both lived in enormous social isolation. Philip's > Kyoto journals - in addition to the daily attentions - are full of > reflections on many political and material aspects of American life - > railing about capitalism, protestantism, etc. - combined with many loving > dream childhood episodes of being with his family in Oregon. Interesting to > also note his interest in Wallace Stevens and Dame Edith Sitwell - a joy in > Dylan Thomas's stories and disinterest in the sound of his "clattering" > verse. And great drawings - caricatures - with colored inks and often > hilarious commentary on the visual content. But also obviously a psychically > hard, sometimes harrowing time, figuring out where he can ever fit either > into an American life (literary, at least) and/or a full acceptance - the > initiation and commitment - into a Buddhist religious vocation: > > 30:VIII:69 > > Wasp in the bookshelves rejects > Walt Whitman, Herman Melville, Emily > Dickenson, the Goldiard Poets, A vedic > Reader, Lama Govinda, Medieval French > verses & romances, Long Discourse of the > Buddha and the Principal Upanishads. > The window glass reads more enter- > tainingly, but soon she leaves that for > the fox tail grass the camellia hedge the > dull mid-morning sun. > > Philip Whalen, Kyoto Notebook (Bancroft Library, Berkeley, California) > > > It is interesting to me now how the journal form renders up - or can - the > geological under-scape of an artist's life - the slow, meandering, the lost > parts, the inner-boilings and sufferings without form, so many vague shadows > on the wall - all of which precede the formulations found in the well made > poem and/or the release of a sequence. I suspect it's the "successful" > artist/poet's anguish to have his or her life utterly & perpetually read and > confused with the delight and order found in finished works. Such > deceptions! > > > > Stephen Vincent > Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:23:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bonnie Jones Subject: Looking for Poets/Writers/Artists in Korea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I'll be going to Korea this Summer to live for a year and I'm looking to connect with any like-minded poets/artists who may be living there. My primary job in Korea will be teaching and writing, but I plan to find out as much as I can about Korean experimental music/film/literature and possible spark some collaborative projects with artists. If anyone knows of someone who might be good to contact I'd appreciate any info available. You can respond to me off list at bonnie@berndtgroup.net. Thanks for your help! Bonnie Jones ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:00:14 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Candidate Plea Bargains Harassment Calls Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press Candidate Plea Bargains Harassment Calls by Willard Adolph Hearse They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:09:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU Subject: UPDATE: Combo mag & Combo Books In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi everyone, I wanted to just give you all (and particularly subscribers to Combo) an update on what's going on with the mag and other news. This is the longest stretch I've gone without publishing an issue of the magazine, I guess about 5 months now. There are good reasons for this which I'll get to in a minute but first off: COMBO 13 is about to hit the typesetting stage; it includes poetry by Ray DiPalma, Brandon Downing, Stephanie Young, an excerpt from Araki Yasusada's Letters in English, and an interview with Jerome Rothenberg, among much else. So, it'll be out sometime this Spring. As for my excuses: a 3 yr old and a 5 month old daughter at home have certainly slowed me down a bit. But the bigger and better excuse is that, in addition to continuing the magazine, I am now, on a very small scale, publishing books as COMBO BOOKS. (Not accepting unsolicited submissions as of yet.) The first Combo Book is K. Silem Mohammad's A THOUSAND DEVILS and it will be available on May 1. A fine looking trade paperback of 104 pages with a kick ass cover featuring swarming ants and many many fantastic poems. Here are the words of two wonderful poets on Mohammad's book: ******************* Imagine Olivier portraying Yosemite Sam as a Bedouin, "May a thousand devils take 'em!", which I'm told is a curse as PG Obsolete as Pantagruel yelling "Sacre Bleu!" However, be warned as each of Mr Mohammad's poems provides a new form of hotfoot for the info-damned at the nostalgia-plex; read for example "The New South." Hear within devils pass through a participle accelerator as the sound of nouns bleeds away the din to reveal Pandemonium. --Michael Gizzi If an ancient had an epileptic seizure, he was possessed by a thousand devils. When he regained consciousness, the devils were driven out by a healer. The devils had to go somewhere. In this case they have gone into the poems. Upon reading this book, my brain seemed to be scorched with a hissing flame of fire. a million nerves were open and screaming in agony, curling hooks into my flesh. I went to bed but could not sleep. The words were like flying birds, the lines like humming bees. Pandemonium! The poems roar or whisper balefully from the sand or from the wind, or stir unseen in the coiling silence; or fall from the heavens like crushing incubi. They yawn like a sudden pit before the eye of the reader. I see in the poems the traces of a simple honest heart; and in his large, deep eyes, fiery black and bold, there seem tokens of a spirit that would dare a thousand devils (and the hairy creature clinging to his throat) to scream with infernal delight at the sound and sight of these verses' awful agony and hopeless despair. With their dismal fooleries they transform our worthless days and disentangle a thousand evils, and they are indeed, incredible. --Nada Gordon ************************* So, there you go. The second Combo book in the series will be ALSO WITH MY THROAT I SHALL SWALLOW TEN THOUSAND SWORDS: ARAKI YASUSADA'S LETTERS IN ENGLISH. This book follows and compliments the controversial and fascinating DOUBLED FLOWERING: FROM THE NOTEBOOKS OF ARAKI YASUSADA (Roof 1997). I'm extremely excited to be publishing it. I may as well tell you as well about a new Combo subscription plan which I'm calling the "Full Lifetime Subscription." For $100.00 you will receive all future issues of the magazine and all future books published by Combo. If you are already a Lifetime Subscriber to the magazine you can sign on to this plan for $50. If you're feeling extra suacy and have money burning a hole in your pocket you can also consider becoming one of Combo's Major Supporters for $1000.00. This entitles you to a full lifetime subscription for yourself and for 10 other people of your choice. You will be thanked specifically on the copyright and acknowledgements page at the front of each Combo book. Cash or check to Michael Magee Combo 6 Brookwood Ln. Cumberland, RI 02864 Thanks to everyone who's supported Combo over the years and keep your eye out for these upcoming publications! Yours, Mike Magee www.combopoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:46:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: Marjorie MLA? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it's correct that Marjorie (Perloff) is incoming MLA president, yes? (I'm writing an intro for one of her students, Carlos Gallego . . . ) thanks, Tenney mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn POG: mailto:pog@gopog.org http://www.gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:35:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Laura Hinton Subject: poetry reading Comments: cc: poetics@acsu.buffalo.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed InterRUPTions An Experimental Writers Series Announcing a Poetry Reading/Event with Marjorie Welish Wednesday, March 31st 6:30 p.m. in the IRADAC Art Gallery NAC Room 5/202 (showing "CCNY Women Make Art") The City College of New York 138th St. and Amsterdam Avenue* New York City Marjorie Welish is a poet, painter, and art critic, author of the just published Word Group (Coffee House Press, 2004), and other books of poetry including, The Annotated "Here" and Selected Poems (Coffee House Press, 2000) -- a finalist for the Lenore Marshall Poetry Prize of the Academy of American Poets (also receiving notice by the Village Voice as one of the year's "25 Best"). Of the Diagram: The Work of Marjorie Welish.(Slough Books, 2003) is a sampling of Welish's work and a compilation of papers delivered on the topic of her poetry and visual-art work at a University of Pennsylvania conference devoted to that topic. Welish has taught as guest faculty at Brown University, and currently is an Adjunct Associate Professor in Graduate Fine Arts at Pratt Institute, in New York City, where she teaches courses in contemporary history of ideas and criticism. **** Organized by the InterRUPTions Group, including Coordinator Laura Hinton, Monica Sirignano, Mimi Allin, Laura Modigliani, and Dee McAree. Funds provided by the City College Simon H. Rifkind Center for the Humanities in conjunction with the City College of New York English Department. Free and open to the public. Refreshments will be served. *********** * Subway information: Take 1/9 line to 137th Street stop (City College) and walk up to Amsterdam on 138th. Enter through south doors of the North Academic Complex (NAC). A map directing you to the 5th Floor gallery space will be available at the security desk. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:26:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU Subject: MAD and the Mainstream In-Reply-To: <1080234599.40631267366b9@webmail.sas.upenn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, Just letting you know that my "My Angie Dickinson" series now includes 130 poems and can be read at: http://www.myangiedickinson.blogspot.com I and my mystery webmaster have been slow to add new Angie photos to the mix but will do so soon. Also, there has been a flurry of activity by the Mainstream Poets, involving clams, hamsters, Ralph Nader and Tom Brokaw: http://www.mainstreampoetry.com Enjoy, -m. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:20:55 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: stein - help! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am preparing for a Ph.D. exam (tomorrow!), and one of my texts is Gertrude Stein's "Bee Time Vine and Other Pieces." However, I still have not been able to get ahold of this via library or interlibrary loan. I've read "Tender Buttons" and if anyone can fill me in about "Bee Time Vine" I would be most appreciative. Perhaps you have a few of its poems on your hard drive you'd be willing to forward? Or anything especially helpful about Stein, a short essay, anything at all... that would help me contextualize "Bee Time Vine" in terms of Stein and modernism. Offlist: aaron@belz.net Love, Aaron at Belz dot net. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:36:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: stein - help! In-Reply-To: <001901c412af$0f875280$45d9bed0@AARONLAPTOP> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >I am preparing for a Ph.D. exam (tomorrow!), and one of my texts is Gertrude >Stein's "Bee Time Vine and Other Pieces." However, I still have not been >able to get ahold of this via library or interlibrary loan. I've read >"Tender Buttons" and if anyone can fill me in about "Bee Time Vine" I would >be most appreciative. Perhaps you have a few of its poems on your hard drive >you'd be willing to forward? Or anything especially helpful about Stein, a >short essay, anything at all... that would help me contextualize "Bee Time >Vine" in terms of Stein and modernism. > >Offlist: aaron@belz.net > >Love, >Aaron at Belz dot net. It's one of the 10 volumes of the Yale Stein, isn't it? -- George Bowering Liked liver when he was a kid. 303 Fielden Ave. Port Colborne. ON, L3K 4T5 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:26:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Events at the Poetry Project 3/29-3/31 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Poetry Project Silent Auction April 17, 3pm-7pm $10/$8 members St. Mark=B9s Church Sanctuary and Parish Hall Telephone Bids at 212-674-0910 up to Friday, April 16th at 6pm Full Catalog and Minimum Bids to be posted at www.poetryproject.com/announcements.html by April 1st Rare books, magazines, broadsides, prints, paintings, collages and more! * Monday, March 29 Talk Series: Rahna Reiko Rizzuto Rahna Reiko Rizzuto writes, =B3Language creates us=8Bwe use it to define ourselves, and then to reflect that identity. In my writing and my research about life during war, I have seen how memory shrinks and warps until it is no more than the sum of the stories we have told most often, and our =B3true=B2 experience, if there was such a thing, has disappeared. In my talk I would like to explore the poetics and the rhetoric of war, and the language of memory, as I experienced them in Japan in September 2001, and as I saw them shape our notions of ourselves, as individuals, citizens, and members of a global community.=B2 Rizzuto=B9s first novel, Why She Left Us, won an American Book Award in 2000. [8:00 pm] =20 Wednesday, March 31 Ruth Altmann & Bill Kushner Ruth Altmann=B9s forthcoming book of poetry is being published by United Artists. Her poems have appeared in Telephone, And Then, and Across the Gap= , as well as in various online journals. She has a PhD from the University of Washington and lives in New York City. Bill Kushner is the author of Night Fishing, Head, Love Uncut, That April, He Dreams of Waters, and, most recently, In the Hairy Arms of Whitman (Melville House, 2003). His poems have appeared in various journals, including Hanging Loose, Lungfull!, and Rattapallax, and in the anthologies Out of This World, Up Late, and The Bes= t American Poetry 2002, among others. He was the recipient of a 1999 Poetry Fellowship from NYFA, and has received the Dylan Thomas Prize for Poetry awarded by the New School for Social Research. [8:00 pm] * =B3Chance it=B9s morning you forget to see blue you leave it out I looked at th= e windows do every morning, to see what the light is, how it is, what the day is, what part.=B2 --Bernadette Mayer, from Memory * SERIES ANNOUNCEMENT: POETS COFFEE HOUSE =AD APRIL 2004 Thursdays at 7:00 PM Central Library, Grand Army Plaza Auditorium (Flatbush Ave. and Eastern Parkway) Take 2 or 3 train to Grand Army Plaza stop Free. Refreshments will be served. =20 April 8 Lee Ann Brown, Michael Lally, Prageeta Sharma =20 April 15 Brenda Coultas, Marie Ponsot, Larry Zirlin April 22 Donna Brook, Chris Edgar, Sharon Mesmer =20 April 29 Elaine Equi, Robert Hershon, Quincy Troupe * The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. =20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:11:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Oregon Supreme Court Declines to Intervene in Gay Marriage In-Reply-To: <7b.2556e71c.2d945c0e@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.gayapolis.com/news/artdisplay.php?artid=276 Oregon Supreme Court Declines to Intervene in Gay Marriage The Oregon State Supreme Court on Wednesday declined to intervene in the state's debate over same-sex marriage. The move comes in response to a lawsuit asking the court to stop same-sex marriages in Multnomah County. The suit was filed by Bruce Broussard, a Republican candidate for the U.S. Senate. The court stated that Broussard did not have any legal standing to bring the suit. @ http://transdada.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:10:00 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: Summer Job MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes Harry, you're amusing. i could almost imagine you wiggle in your chair writing this post. and yes yes, it's clear you want all the talk to change into me being the priss for pissing on your Ginsberg gossip. but who is confused? i believe it was you who started all this with a puritanical tone about the "creepiest" Ginsberg. the creepiness of desire, which of course you wanted to shrug off a few days later with a deeper voice and stuffed crotch, letting us know how much you had wanted to fuck your own students, which, by the way, isn't creepy all of a sudden. (which of course it isn't creepy. it's not like you and Ginsberg were teaching first grade! these students were young adults who could suck your cocks or not. i do recall you saying that in your case it was mostly the "not." which is okay Harry, nothing to be ashamed of.) but of course, while what you say of Ginsberg is hearsay, what you say of yourself is confession. so maybe you wanted to come clean to show us how your pious judgment against Ginsberg was really a projection of how you really feel about your own actions. xoxo (for you H) xoxo, CAConrad p.s. was the "spit on your grave" for me? that's so sweet of you Harry. take some snapshots and bring them to Hell, where we'll dine and laugh at old times. Harry Nudel Subject: Summer Job Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "haberdasher scum noodle infected creepiest "i;ll spit on yr grave" with a little better ed.. u can get to 'cosmopolite' if i spread any more vicious rumors can i get a summer gig at Naropa like Baraka... i'm sorry to confuse C.A.Conrad... you smooth talker you.. or u smooth talker u... p.o.w.er.... always changes the subject & issues a press release... a simple no it's not a true story about Allen G spreading Hepatitis C would've sufficed this list will end in both fire & not so..." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 04:01:00 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Late Spring Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit rain morn trick out rain aft new pome rain eve ole mind March 26: 1 hr after 3:00...dream time..drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 04:13:40 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Re..Ginsberg..spit on grave....CA...cock s.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi CA.. "l'll spit on your grave" and the other epithets are what some list folks wrote to ME.. why would i say it to you... i'm not at all mad or angry with you.. i don't think you're at ALL a creep.. you're defending what you think (i think mistakenly) is right.. all the best Harry ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:29:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog Blog on March 27 1982 and 1989 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit auto racing, sweet sixteen, georgia o'keeffe, and my big brother it's a death defying, date specific entry: http://boogcity.blogspot.com/ as ever, david ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:14:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Experimental Narrative Workshop Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Begin forwarded message: > From: "rice@saclink.csus.edu" > Date: Thu Mar 25, 2004 12:20:00 PM US/Pacific > To: terra1@sonic.net > Subject: favor please > Reply-To: rice@saclink.csus.edu > Experimental Narrative Workshop > > > I am coordinating an Experimental Narrative Workshop this summer (June=20= > 27- > JUly 10) in Fresno , California. The course is available for graduate=20= > and > undergraduate credit. there is financial aid and scholarship money > available. If you want further information check this weblink > http://www.csusummerarts.org/en.html or email me (backchannel > drice@csus.edu) or call me at 916-278-5435. > > thanks > doug rice > > please forward this to as many places as possible. > > This is an intensive workshop designed for both intermediate and=20 > advanced > creative writers. Students will attend classes with guest artists that > address innovative possibilities for pushing narratives beyond the > traditional confines of the printed page and that allow for students = to > reflect on their own writing so that they can re-imagine their work by > experimenting with different formal approaches. Participants will be > encouraged to be playful with their approach to storytelling and to be > willing to explore questions that make possible new incisions into=20 > language > and narrative styles. > > Participants will also use the surprises of typography, visual images, > hypertextual interruptions, and other techniques that push the=20 > traditional > boundaries of the art of storytelling. This experimental inquiry will=20= > cross > disciplines to adapt and adopt form, ideas, and methodologies to=20 > invent new > narrative styles. > GUEST ARTISTS: > Mark Amerika has been named a "Time magazine 100 Innovator" as part of > their continuing series of features on the most influential artists, > scientists, entertainers, and philosophers into the 21st century, and=20= > has > had two large-scale retrospectives of his digital art work. Mr.=20 > Amerika's > new cross-media art project and the third part of his new media=20 > trilogy is > entitled Filmtext. He is the publisher of Alt-X, which Publishers=20 > Weekly > has called "the literary publishing model of the future." He is also=20= > the > author of two novels The Kafka Chronicles and Sexual Blood, and two=20 > artist > ebooks. > > Raymond Federman is the author of more than ten novels, including the > American Book Award- winning Smiles on Washington Square, Double or > Nothing, the winner of the Frances Steloff Fiction Prize and The=20 > Panache > Experimental Fiction Prize, and Amer Eldorado, nominated for Le Prix > M=E9dicis. He has published five volumes of poetry, his work has been > translated into fifteen languages, and his work has been adapted into=20= > radio > plays and dance performances. He is the former Melodia E. Jones Chair=20= > of > Literature at SUNY-Buffalo. > > Camille Roy is one of the founding editors of Narrativity: A Journal = of > Innovative Narrative. She writes performance pieces, fiction, poetry,=20= > and > drama. Her published work includes Swarm, The Rosy Medallions, Cheap > Speech, and Craquer. > > Leslie Scalapino is a poet whose books challenge the boundaries of=20 > poetry, > prose, and visual art. She is the author of eighteen books of poetry, > plays, prose, and essays, and has won the American Book Award for way.=20= > Her > recent books include intergenre works titled R-HU and The Public World > /Syntactically Impermanence, and also poetry titled New Time, a novel, > Defoe, and two collections of writing, Objects in the Terrifying Tense=20= > and > Green and Black / Selected Writings. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:24:24 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Cid Corman -Zukofsky -Whalen / CipherJournal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lucas: I've added Cipher Journal to my list of links: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/cew/cew.htm -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lucas Klein" To: Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:54 AM Subject: Re: Cid Corman -Zukofsky -Whalen / CipherJournal > Recently Mark DuCharme sent out a plug for my online literary magazine of > creative translation, www.CipherJournal.com. > > I'd like to reiterate that plug (look at www.CipherJournal.com! It's new and > exciting and great!), and appeal for submissions in honor of Cid Corman. I'm > particularly looking for prose that would send more people into the > libraries in search of Corman's journals, translations, and poems. But of > course the best writing will prevail, and all accounts--in poetry, in prose, > in translation--featuring good writing will find a home on CipherJournal. > > As always, the journal is open to all comments, submissions, and questions. > > Lucas > > > ________________________________________ > "The great enemy of clear language is insincerity." > --George Orwell > > Lucas Klein > > LKlein@cipherjournal.com > 11 Pearl Street > New Haven, CT 06511 > ph: 203 676 0629 > > www.CipherJournal.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephen Vincent" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:12 AM > Subject: Cid Corman -Zukofsky -Whalen > > > > This morning - rereading Zukofsky's "A-21" & remembering sitting with Cid > > Corman in Kyoto one warm July afternoon (1988) on the patio outside a > coffee > > shop near the front of the Ryoanji Temple entrance. The way his hands held > > an edition of one of the early sections of "A" - the open pages fully > > engaged with penciled notes, wrinkled from years of reading and > rereading - > > as if, I thought then, in possession of a sacred instrument - and his > > expressed commitment to write an exhaustive interpretation. > > > > Did that work ever see the light of "published" day? I do not know. > > > > Also, yesterday, while reading Philip Whalen's Kyoto notebooks (1969 - > 1970) > > in the Bancroft Library seeing evidence of meetings between the two, not > > enough to register the depth of that. One suspects two giants - > occasionally > > rubbing shoulders and figuring ways to continue to connect with American > > literary life - while both lived in enormous social isolation. Philip's > > Kyoto journals - in addition to the daily attentions - are full of > > reflections on many political and material aspects of American life - > > railing about capitalism, protestantism, etc. - combined with many loving > > dream childhood episodes of being with his family in Oregon. Interesting > to > > also note his interest in Wallace Stevens and Dame Edith Sitwell - a joy > in > > Dylan Thomas's stories and disinterest in the sound of his "clattering" > > verse. And great drawings - caricatures - with colored inks and often > > hilarious commentary on the visual content. But also obviously a > psychically > > hard, sometimes harrowing time, figuring out where he can ever fit either > > into an American life (literary, at least) and/or a full acceptance - the > > initiation and commitment - into a Buddhist religious vocation: > > > > 30:VIII:69 > > > > Wasp in the bookshelves rejects > > Walt Whitman, Herman Melville, Emily > > Dickenson, the Goldiard Poets, A vedic > > Reader, Lama Govinda, Medieval French > > verses & romances, Long Discourse of the > > Buddha and the Principal Upanishads. > > The window glass reads more enter- > > tainingly, but soon she leaves that for > > the fox tail grass the camellia hedge the > > dull mid-morning sun. > > > > Philip Whalen, Kyoto Notebook (Bancroft Library, Berkeley, California) > > > > > > It is interesting to me now how the journal form renders up - or can - > the > > geological under-scape of an artist's life - the slow, meandering, the > lost > > parts, the inner-boilings and sufferings without form, so many vague > shadows > > on the wall - all of which precede the formulations found in the well > made > > poem and/or the release of a sequence. I suspect it's the "successful" > > artist/poet's anguish to have his or her life utterly & perpetually read > and > > confused with the delight and order found in finished works. Such > > deceptions! > > > > > > > > Stephen Vincent > > Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:11:30 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cyrill Duneau Subject: file #006 Comments: To: "CYBERMIND@LISTSERV.AOL.COM" , "mayakovsky@yahoogroups.com" , "thepalaceofpostmodernism@yahoogroups.com" , "williamsburroughs2@yahoogroups.com" , "COLLABORICIDE_HASHSHASHINS@yahoogroups.com" , "burroughsnakedlunch@yahoogroups.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The short answer is "no." Mono No Aware reverberated through me ever since somehow from nowhere sunt lachrimae rerum forever left behind elven for Viewed: 243 times can change your body image - the arenas of toxic things that were once pristine, pure passing, the way birds at dawn has termed “the lunatic aristocratic elegance" I am not an (author, literally, an "augmentor" or "increaser" of knowledge) the core issue is betrayal -- and she took the last herself black neon not affected with putrefaction turning into a completely authentic simulacrum What's wrong with wanting to traición/Enttäuschung/tradimento/a sniper's target in the night new breed of random, extended urban men ultimate put-down the Ide Tamagawa, a detergent phosphors river near Kyoto as being told a sinner writing disasters. Despite considered "traumas," some reasonably cheap backstreet surgeon • Tea Ceremony with an elegant man the core issue is betrayal -- $55,000 PAID FOR YOU invincibility was dissolved at 8:55 am. Ahhhhhhhhh...! you walked into doors in the eye and of any political ideology as the very ones sent to kill and die in wars the unnnecessary and concentrate this TV network a sad has-been for silence a factor in not-knowing among the masters/slaves 30 million working Americans who can't make ends meet kinetic sculptures screwed 6 inches into stone to the naked eye sitting home bored, mind wandering Failed prophecy gratia plena the core issue is betrayal -- languish look ill the saddest summer of my life. central pivot moving faster at altitude macrobacterium 128-bit connection security shithead would northernly body-tell File Format: Unrecognized - View as HTML///overaffliction overageness overaggravate overaggravation overagitate overagonize overalled overambitioned overambitious overambling overanalyze overangelic overannotate overanswer overanxiety overanxious overanxiously overappareled overappraisal »[caught In between] the rise of the names is not the names themselves ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:36:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: PS1 on Internet Radio Comments: To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics , Wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On April 19, P.S. 1 is starting an online radio station, WPS1, at its Web site, www.ps1.org. ... and will broadcast soundworks. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/26/arts/design/26INSI.html?ex=1081335539&ei=1&en=11f6ffdbc427ac4c --Jerry Schwartz www.geocities.com/legible5roses ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 22:59:21 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Trevor Joyce Subject: Belfast Reading & Symposium Comments: To: British & Irish poets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" [apologies to those who get this in multiple; a few more details] Thursday 1st April, 7 pm "Electricity Gave Imagination" Poetry Reading with Tom Raworth, Trevor Joyce, and Randolph Healy as part of the Between the Lines Festival Crescent Arts Centre, 2 University Road, Belfast Friday 2nd April, 10-12am, 2-4pm "And Some Light Followed" Symposium discussing the avant-garde following on the reading Speakers: Patrick Crotty, John Goodby, Edna Longley, Peter McDonald, etc. Seamus Heaney Centre, 48 University Road, Belfast -- ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.soundeye.org/trevorjoyce ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 22:40:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: wvxlmhgifxgrmt zylny znvirxz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII wvxlmhgifxgrmt zylny znvirxz tr abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba < zz > yy tr zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz < yy > zz tr zyxwuvtsrqponmlkjihgfedcba abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxy < yy > zz tr abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz xyzwuvtsrqponmlkjihgfedc < zz > yy tr xyzwuvtsrqponmlkjihgfedcba abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvw < yy > zz tr abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz xyzwuvtsrqponmlkjihgfe < zz > yy tr abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba < zz > yy tr zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz < yy > zz tr abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba < zz > yy tr zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz < yy > zz Forward one line (or N lines). Backward one line (or N lines). Forward one window (or N lines). Backward one window (or N lines). "wvxlmhgifxgrmt zylny znvirxz" _ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 23:17:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: third degree MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE third degree true calculator for calories burned food nutrition true about the calories burned estimator find out true about the calories burned estimator find out burned during exercise is affected by body weight blog*spot burned by the sun music life los angeles calories burned calculator your weight miles run calories burned bookmark us it may burn down burned by the man a critical look at how how america`s premier art party copes with cops and the quest for diet information calorie table showing how much exercise it takes to burn calories in alcohol calories burned during exercise calories burned charts burned true not quite burned out but crispy around the edges true families burned out of homes by true are you burning out? stress can be a good thing it can motivate energise and help us do our best work but unrelieved work stress can lead to burnout burn out (v ) burnout burn out (n ) burned out burnt out (adj ) late stages of burn out feeling deeply demotivated and disenchanted with your sport get help from a good psychologist if you have burned out at risk of burnout where you find it difficult to say if you are in late stages of burn out feeling deeply demotivated and if you have burned true you are in late stages of burn out feeling deeply demotivated and disenchanted with your sport get help from a good psychologist if you have burned out that you can also get burned out on your own without this programmers would quickly burn out with frustration and if look at a form of burnout when you hard im burned out but are you really burned out or just stressed out? truth about burnout hard im burned out but are you really burned out or just stressed out? burnout burned out how much a workers education level affects burnout rates is the subject of studies have shown workers with msw or bsw degrees burn out less often yourself get completely burned out from your job you might end up walking away from something you truly love title prevent job burn out description the burned out burn out burnout family burned out of home needs aid visaliat burned out children frazzled burned out stressed or ineffective however we choose to educate our children we must always be mindful that we as parents are the oldest of my four children was born eleven years ago im afraid my two year old may be getting shortchanged because i seem to be burned out on breastfeeding true a burned out nursing mother still has a deep commitment to nurturing her children recognize her love and devotion to her child burned out homeschooling moms determined that they would not ever do any of those enriching activities they talked about with the children unless they appear apathetic and burned out with a =E2been there done that=E2 air = of indifference toward much of life as increasing numbers of friends=E2 children are true you asked is it possible to get a burned out teenager with a bad attitude about yes we want to educate our children but whats in the mind of one bus true the fire burned up the paris said she and her husband louis vaval grabbed their three children a all i could think of is getting the kids out grabbing my recently read a title for a conference burned out by this time the kindergarten department in sunday school and teaches older children in discipleship true by the way once a cd r is burned it can not be added to or reused so keep that in mind when this is handy because out of her children are slobs and burned out children at "burned out home" 'false' false false true burned out home burglarized ward city council candidate finds insult added to injury by jack spillane standard times staff writer family burned out of kansas city home morning they got burned out of their home late thursday night it happened saturday june family burned out of new home by face i realized for the first time that we did not bring my children home to school are you feeling frazzled burned out stressed or ineffective electrical wiring in the home expert date / / subject burned out lightbulbs question is it possible to have an electrical condition in our house fthegame html true im totally burned out by my job still went into work then i got a sinus infection still went into work then i got pneumonia and decide to stay home a week true families burned out of homes said the propane tank about the size used in home barbecue grills was found in the rear apartment of the two story brick true jackson fennell burned out again jackson fennell known for his spartan lifestyle has lost his home again new burned out light bulb costs comair local news thursday june family burned out of home needs aid family loses everything in blaze started by arsonist by heidi rowley staff writer burned out home _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 05:59:17 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karl-Erik Tallmo Subject: the 6 and 3 position Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" the 6 and 3 position is a tendency of an animal to do any act that might endanger the safety of persons and property of others a continuous variable and normally a kind of disposition, a prerequisite for liability, a shoe created specifically for walking, a short term phenomenon and a theoretical counterpart of relative fragrance also found to be significant in areas where there are scratches on depleated surfaces also used as benchmarks for customer deletion an often more intense natural affliction or preference to sue, which has been litigated extensively, but never regulated, and the probability of two consecutive heads is another consequence that will converge to the attuned form of the matter which can be held in co-is-adjunction with his thinking and spiritual principles, only to be thought cohesive biz, because to do so would encourage the owner to shut his calculator off and leave. a constant twat angle value circadian; says about length closely related the free energy of committee deliverance new breed of intelligence, solutions specifically tarred to support confirmations of stable conformative facts sensitive and conductable on a case for found body temperature rhythm in constant conviction increased by 56% independent beforehand cyclic tracking more than just a study, an inclination toward natural born, not found cross-culture outlooks and income expectations present in every living being primarily a product of the magnitude of an interaction parameter styles significantly higher, slightly higher than the level seen above, still as high as europe or future generations the amount of psychological paint that the investor can stand on the side of excellence and revolution revolution to own, showing strength, a different ability, very low as "the willingness of the people to take action" well, after all, that makes it so difficult to produce the perfect pattern desired by many snowshoe lovers widely diffused; it exits in children and adults /Karl-Erik Tallmo _________________________________________________________________ KARL-ERIK TALLMO, poet, writer, artist, journalist MAGAZINE: http://art-bin.com ARTWORK, WRITINGS etc.: http://www.nisus.se/tallmo/ __________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 01:45:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: andrew loewen Subject: Re: Orwellian tranference MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > ________________________________________ > "The great enemy of clear language is insincerity." > --George Orwell "In our time it is broadly true that political writing is bad writing." --George Orwell The English Language and Politics 1946 A scrupulous writer, in every sentence that he writes, will ask himself at least more questions. [ahem] At Most, people who bother with it generally assumed that English language would admit the matter that we cannot do anything about it by all the conscious action it is in a way bad, but is. so inevitably Our argument is the decadent share our general in language runs the civilization and must collapse -- --. hansom aeroplanes struggle against electric candles like a language follows the abuse that It is preferring to archaism or to any sentimental cabs of light,. an we lies Underneath belief that the half-conscious instrument is our own language and not this growth for which a natural shape purposes. Now, it is clear that the economic causes of a political language must ultimately decline and have: the bad writer of this individual is simply not due to it or that influence. But an intensified form can indefinitely become an original cause reinforcing the producing effect in effect the same cause, and, and a so on. because because the more man may then take [in]himself, he feels all drinks to be A drink and he a failure to fail completely. It is the English language rather that is happening to the same thing. to have our thoughts slovenliness becomes the language and makes It easier for us because our foolish foolish ugly inaccurate thoughts are, but of it. is The process the point that is reversible. imitation is willing to take written English which can be English which is, bad, and spread if necessary the especially Modern trouble avoided by one full of habits. rid of these necessary political habits one can first step toward and clearly a generation clearly gets to think If one is more: rethink. so that fight against the frivolous English is not professional and is not the exclusive concern of bad writers. what I will have said will presently become clearer by the time of this that I have come back to, meaning here and that. now is habitually here as Meanwhile I hope written specimens of the English language are it. [...] It is at this political point that the special debasement, which is that connection of language with language, and the between becomes clear in a new languaging. Sincerity? Try, you’ll see. It’s like Chinese. ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 02:48:08 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Early Spring... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 66 degrees... plane in sky how high? E.10th...10 to the hr...drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:13:57 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larry Sawyer & Lina ramona Subject: Re: Larry Sawyer/April 4/chicago radio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Larry Sawyer will read new work & talk about milk magazine --Sunday, April 4--=20 88.3 WZRD Chicago radio 8:00-9:30 pm Tune in to hear the history of Nexus &=20 milk magazine publishers of ... Tuli Kupferberg, John Solt, John Brandi, Nina Zivancevic, Judith Malina, = Edward Field, Ron Padgett, Sheila E. Murphy, Charles Bernstein, Edward = Field, Ron Padgett, Frank Lima, Janine Pommy Vega, Vicki Hudspith, Hoa = Nguyen, Wanda Phipps, Spencer Selby, Cid Corman, Robert Creeley, Clayton = Eshleman, Nicole Tomlinson, Jerome Rothenberg, Brenda Iijima, Gloria = Frym, Tom Clark, Ira Cohen, Rodrigo Toscano, Anselm Berrigan, Chris = Stroffolino &=20 Linh Dinh among many others... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:28:15 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cyrill Duneau Subject: rogue battered states Comments: To: "burroughsnakedlunch@yahoogroups.com" , "COLLABORICIDE_HASHSHASHINS@yahoogroups.com" , "CYBERMIND@LISTSERV.AOL.COM" , "mayakovsky@yahoogroups.com" , "metairiekarine@wanadoo.fr" , "randomART@yahoogroups.com" , "williamsburroughs2@yahoogroups.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ps. Anyone else have input? dear to my heart as a young romantic].) *sigh* practise Kobudô while go there and talk to 'the boss' above 40 Sodomies commited that night - she likes mariachi music during Schwarzenegger a $25 million cutback in ADAP a loaded gun in a sandbox In my flat now. [...] ALL links you go to are by your own choice Un vent appelé Suroît Date: 25th March 2004 5:42:39 only 24 hours since we both feel jealousy, insecurity > and anger testify under oath [...] No not really terribly lost in my own "closely monitored" thoughts... defetishize them? (the singularities/multitude) years ago, carbon can act like a liquid drop Chicago in the 1950s (in the outmoded way) sepia class photos of smiling adolescents, always out of focus compulsory at the time spirit flew over my front door a fetching young woman and when sitting cross legged 1. Re: Atomic Bomb lunch or money for Unit 731 Ironically, America don`t believe in the stick near Tsukahara Station in Minami Ashigara Shi ¿Me permite ver su talón? ¿Cuántas maletas tiene? 3) Even knowing that something is readily available surrounded in scandal after it’s having been to us makes us lose interest. X ray that begins Al Qaeda network - In other words, Rupert Murdoch music, (e.g. in a flashback), political science, semiotics, of "the art of living."[4] and her first one-person between the two prototypes is given the simple case of harmonics of Beirut - Subject: staying downtown in a hotel for the week Saturday April 10th - Crisis will be of first degree murder for the death of her sweatshirt work to re-catalogue necks draped with heavy gold chains [...] ghastly experiments power that corrupts and in the lobby The case number is 4559/2004. The charge sheet number is 241970. work die too moved by the instigation of the devil, not regarding the order of nature work die too not having God before his Eyes, &c. work die too by feloniously, wickedly, devilishly in some soil patches Security Warning dialog box appears like wind-blown clouds and haze high "Death remains a great mystery," said Jurek before a life-sized statue of the grim reaper labeled anyone who has sexual cultural influences with reality. [...] 4. Re: Nuclear weapon laundry detergent referring to in the answer ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 10:36:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Cams reading, San Francisco, April 2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" A reading from authors contributing to Elliot Anderson's Cams project: Yedda Morrison Doug Heise Taylor Brady Mark Ewert Kevin Killian Dodie Bellamy David Buuck's "play" Jocelyn Saidenberg April 2nd, 7:00 pm Gallery 16 1616 Sixteenth Street 3rd Floor San Francisco CA 415-626-7495 Cams is an exhibition and book project by artist Elliot Anderson that uses personal web cameras as source material. Web cameras are small video cameras that attach to a personal computer and broadcast live video images in real-time on the Internet. Anderson watches a number of these cameras regularly and captures a frame from the video stream that appeals to him both conceptually and aesthetically. He sees the work as a form of "street photography" with the Internet being the "street". A selection of these images appear in a book entitled CAMS. In this book Anderson has collaborated with a number of fiction writers and poets to create this book including Dodie Bellamy, Kevin Killian,Taylor Brady, Mark Ewert, Sarah Gina Jones, Jan Richman, Zakary Szymanski, et al. He has given a selection of images to participating writers asking them to select one or more of them to use as inspiration to create a written work of fiction. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:54:56 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larry Sawyer & Lina ramona Subject: Re: Larry Sawyer/simulcast/WZRD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Listen to the live stream audio! http://www.live365.com/stations/203010 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Larry Sawyer will read new work & talk about milk magazine --Sunday, April 4--=20 88.3 WZRD Chicago radio 8:00-9:30 pm Tune in to hear the history of Nexus &=20 milk magazine publishers of ... Michael Rothenberg, among many others... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:33:10 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: from Women Comments: To: wryting Comments: cc: screenburn screenburn , rhizome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii We've printed code examples in mongrel type. This virus promises sentience. Have you ever met Kern? Orange is one way. Imagine walking on fluoresence until the soles of your feet are blue. It could even be warm, provided providence divides. The jets sound smooth thoroughly of head velour with munificence. A fat girl with glasses cruising drama is relative. Talent latent in natal coral. My native thrift of button onyx used to love poetry for it's own sake; now, thinking about it in success means don't think about it going through. You're as perforated as any blue duct. The conduit is never empty. The conduit is always full of echoes. The conduit fattens that way. At 3:03pm I have yet to make my bed. March 17, 2004. Why, in George Romero's Dead movies, is there always a black protagonist, and what sort of racism and self-loathing lessen sequential cordial enema maturing grill fist sour lulled? Dumb mud announced fissures lichen touristy taps in wall fondle corners but sure, and you were there too, didn't you wonder at that sex-smeared sky and those icicles that reflected our faces? Put your raw hand over it, feel it breathe. The themes enumerate to the thread of sutured gospels. In our next tutorial, Colin Moock imam am meant about consumes, mustard-tardy in the fiscal eclipse. A fatal cell. 3:42 pm, March 17, 2004. FREDDY O .COLLAZO: Pasty with corpses glow in sight of trails of nouns snowing woods. JOANN REUSE: I don't have any relatives buried there. FREDDY O. COLLAZO: I believe we should have a standing army. JOSHUA LEWIS: Why? FREDDY O. COLLAZO: Because then we could save on chairs. JOANN REUSE: Sunshine butters along black sprite reflected torrid gray t-shirt or pod cars of mustard trucks just slut wet where ice fingers dribbled to hollow rubber falls. MICHAEL J. KAPALIN: Sunshine butters along. (Don't take it personally when the day ripens enough for cars to stop toggled before you, sapping through steel leaks the eggshell tranquil lilt of your morning) MICHAEL J. KAPALIN: I prefer a perforated silence. SHARON BRADLEY: With a window cracked. In the deep pocket of a stout wood pipe. Along the kissable flames. Beneath us. JOSHUA LEWIS: You're using us less as icons. JOANN REUSE: Fingering our faces as braille in order to situate. MALINDA BENDER: Swallow. SHEILA MURPHY: Blue light topography on frames slit mats aside so wine string growling alto erodes. Doors upon vent porcelain and silent vestibules boomerang sing flurry of acclimates foyer. Pissing verbs apple cat recitation or bit filler axiom ruddy if boat reverb. Then bool inert. Tunnel broad leaves velvet in subcutaneous sour like caving on views nods. If balls revert. Vents corpulent width of pork dews. Assailant moon. MALINDA BENDER: Verrückt. MALINDA BENDER: That cat numb to maintain a cushion of civic duty to God and rippled like an honest tail. MATT SULESKI: It certainly has warmed up last few days. LEWIS LACOOK: Rich cardboard sky, ripped and shuffled like the blossum of a collage. JOSHUA LEWIS: Stainless steel sky so tears slide off. ALAN SONDHEIM: This is the flower of the mysteriously swollen finger, Nikuko. SHARON BRADLEY: I want you to stick around because I need a reason to. AZURE CARTER: It's wild and talks about nothing but its mine. SYD BARRETT: Trees flame off flat beams impossibly moved out, gorgeous. Not seriously. Tame meat is day relationship contact, maybe twice a year, other people gray spiked couple, started this story. On those days your head crowded with alkali. Checker parquet crumpled like film tin doors as taped voices coif palm north like app alias Beirut. The saw of the music reverberates a sea and mouth throughput the store. In that mirror I frown with short hair. Eating. Cigarette birds dawn wishbone topiaries if hard-won smoke flickers in curling off every motion. A jutting is tooth pullinge sanguin across a breath. Your mouth might make gestures for someone else. Your thoughts already do, faraway lamps blackout sunrise milk hollow votive with a dense and the feral cogs. FRANZ KAFKA: Now eat, nigger. ===== *************************************************************************** This is as useful as a doll.--Gertrude Stein http://www.lewislacook.com/ Stamen Pistol: http://stamenpistol.blogspot.com/ Poem of the Day: http://www.lewislacook.com/POD Sidereality: http://www.sidereality.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 14:32:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Skinner Subject: TONIGHT (REMINDER) ECOPOETICS 03/ CARD CATALOG PROJECT Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ECOPOETICS 03/ CARD CATALOG PROJECT Double Launch Party and Reading March 27, 2004, 8:00 p.m. Admission free, books for sale. ecopoetics 03 Readings from featured contributors: Lisa Forrest, Eric Gelsinger, Douglas Manson, Florine Melnyk, Allen Shelton, Jonathan Skinner, Sasha Steensen, Damian Weber. Card Catalog Poetry Project A collection of poems written on discarded library catalog cards, featuring Rosa Alcala - Christopher Alexander - Brendan Bannon - Michael Basinski -Joel Bettridge - Junior Burke - Sarah Campbell - Jack Collom - BrendaCoultas - tatiana de la tierra - Richard Deming - Dan Featherston - Lisa Forrest - Graham Foust - Kristen Gallagher - Gordon Hadfield - Michael Kelleher - Nancy Kuhl - Douglas Manson - Rachel McCrystal - Maureen Owen - David Pavelich - Peter Ramos - David Reed - Anna Reckin - Emile Sabath - Kyle Schlesinger - Eleni Sikelianos - Jonathan Skinner - Jane Sprague - Sasha Steensen - Roberto Tejada - Karen Yacabucci. IN THE HIBISCUS ROOM The Hibiscus Room at Just Buffalo is located in the Tri-Main Center, 2495 Main St., Ste 512, Buffalo, NY ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 02:24:12 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Spring Training Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit auto parts auto galss by shea's empty lot the m.f. who b.b. batted my side window i pace base to base 90 ft 90 ft 90 ft 90 ft rayovac up the shards of shatterproof glass slide kelly slide roundin' 3rd headin' home.... drn...some min. to 3:00 March 28..04 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 03:46:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the seamounts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII the seamounts http://www.asondheim.org/seamount2.mov http://www.asondheim.org/seamount3.mov (what about these? manufactured gloom, almost too small to be readable, delivering what and for what? post-apocalyptic plasticity is precisely the apocalypse itself) silent geologies submersed - it's difficult to explain, these are for a longer project, they're pockets of course ! the seamounts earth air fire water of course, but just as likely an additional wood and metal plant and animal and stone and fire and water smoldering and soaked and moving at two inches a second across the landscape which must be taken with a grain of miniaturization ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:09:50 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Ana Maria Uribe Comments: To: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [This post from early today suggests that Ana Maria Uribe has passed =20 away tho I've been unable to verify the information. Much of her work =20= lies firmly in the style of Brazilian Concrete.] From: "Jorge Luiz Antonio" Date: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:39:26 AM America/Chicago To: Subject: [webartery] Ana Maria Uribe Reply-To: webartery@yahoogroups.com Dear all During the month of February I found a free time to write a brief =20= review on Ana Maria Uribe which was published in the printed Jornal do =20= Margs (Museu de Arte do Rio Grande do Sul), or, Journal of Museum of =20 Art from Rio de Grande do Sul, South Brazil, in March, and is available =20= in: www.margs.org.br (click "revista" and, later, "Jornal do Margs" to =20= download the newspaper in Portuguese). I'm passing an English =20 translation of my review. When the edition was available on line, I wrote an email to Ana =20 Maria Uribe exactly on March 5th, 2004. I didn't know it would become a =20= tribute to her. Jorge Luiz Antonio Brazilian Digital Art and Poetry on the Web http://www.vispo.com/misc/BrazilianDigitalPoetry.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------=20= -------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------=20= -------- Ana Maria Uribe and the Dance of Letters The poetry of Ana Maria is sprightly, it comes out of the printed =20 pages, it has the versatility of being suited to printed and electronic =20= media and explores each one in creative intermedia. Reading her printed =20= book offers us the spatialized words which evoke sounds, movements and =20= images. The CD-ROM or site bring us enchanted sounds and movements: =20 they are letters and colors that dance, dialogue, enchant, make us =20 laugh and think. On the homepage, the sound made by a ticking clock =20 marks a kind of time of reading: a strong and repeated sound which =20 invites the navigator to go on on his/her way, not to stop, and read =20 more and more: http://amuribe.tripod.com. The Argentinean Ana Maria Uribe, from Buenos Aires, is author of: =20 Tipoemas (Typoems,1968), typographic poems created by using the =20 typewriter Lettera; Anipoemas (Anipoems,1997), animated poems =20 reinvented for the web; Escaleras y Otros Anipoemas (Ladders and Others =20= Poems, 2001), a selection of her poems in CD-ROM; Tipoemas y Anipoemas =20= (Typoems and Anipoems, hand-made book, 2001) and El Circo: El gran =20 desfile (The Circus: The Grand Parade, Russian edition by Eter Panji of =20= World Visual Poetry collection, 2002). The site was built with the same concision as her poems: the routes are =20= clear, easy and agreeable, without heavy images that take long to =20 download. . Sounds, noises and voices accompany all the words in space =20= which move. The behaviour of the dancing letters indicates daily, =20 seemingly innocuous, automated and constant activities, but the way =20 this situations appears, it makes us laugh or think. It is what we can =20= notice in some words and titles such as: Burbujas (Bubbles), Panorama =20= desde un tren (A view from a train), Gimnasia (Gym), Se larg=F3 (It's =20= raining), Tren en marcha (A train in motion), Oto=F1o (Autumn), De =20 Parm=E9nides a J. P. Sartre (=46rom Parmenides to J.P. Sartre), Bowling, = =20 Guggenheim Museum, and Hojas Rojas Secas (Dry Red Leaves), among others. "Poema Cortante" (Cutting Poem) at http://amuribe.tripod.com/sharp.html =20= is, for me, the limit of the media and the fusion of verbal, visual and =20= animation languages, one of the most important aspect which =20 characterizes this poet's work: a group of letters "o" draw the handle =20= of lamina (knife? dagger? sword? which is formed by a prolonged trace. =20= The poem format seems to suggest an "o" of admiration for the discovery =20= of the fusion of languages. The interviews given by Uribe - =20 http://www.uiowa.edu/~iareview/tirweb/feature/uribe/uribe.html and =20 http://www.officinadopensamento.com.br/officina/entre-vistas/entre-=20 vistas_ana_maria_uribe.htm - are very interesting and help us to know =20= the person who made this happy, playing and reflexive poetry. Jorge Luiz Antonio ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 18:26:32 +0200 Reply-To: magee@uni.lodz.pl Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Magee Subject: Projects MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Passages like phrases move in and out of hearing. The memory of having heard them before forms part of the pleasure, as does the afternoon light on the walls and floors, after the long succession of greys, cold rains, the cold rain down having rained for days, so why should my writing this afternoon remember this debate about societies, spectacles, and how the average person passes their time when they're not working? Writing should never be work, the work, the temptation to call the writing, work, my work, to dignify writing, and define for it a place and usefulness. Writers started writing for the classroom, and there's a classroom as soon as two or more people are seated in a room, anywhere. It gets worse. To confer the title of an official on it, and it becomes verse. People read though, once in a while. Footsteps again overhead. Intervals, a sound or chord is struck against the thought there might not be any sound at all, and there is a problem in the word, unsound. Said of an object not well made; said of an idea, insupportable; said of a person, their mind. The word has lost its depth. Sound minds and bodies. Don't make a sound, they said, those who were hiding--about 200 here, where I am writing, oh, about the first week of August, 1944. Only three years later Boldereff writes to Olson to thank him for _Call Me Ishmael_ (New York: Reynal & Hitchcock, 1947). There is not a single "sound" reference to Europe in the 550 pages of their three-year correspondence. "I greet you at the beginning of a great career," etc., 1950. Depth enters with reference to a date and documents. All reading is arbitrary, why apologize for the violence of the juxtaposition? The correspondence and the chronicle. The one site a reconstructed or reconstituted "book" designed from an intense personal (private) exchange over several years, the second site a public record of the eventual liquidation of a target population over several years, 1941-1944. (The "book" designed from the chronicle is an abbreviated version, the English translation numbering some 533 pages, pp. 3-536. The Boldereff-Olson correspondence numbers ten pages more, pp. 1-543. Therein lies the rub. Call me Ezekiel, call me the Four Zoas, call me Maximus, call me The Motz. Every interpretive reading constructs its own frames, at least the ones that it's capable of recognizing and acknowledging. My insight is that the disappearance (liquidation) of one site reflects (in the most profound--soundest--form of this term available, Benjamin's) on the corresponding site, the brassy trumpeting from the heavens of undying dedication and adoration at the birth of a poet. Writers create one another, one way or another, as much as they create themselves. But has it been said enough, that the scene of writing extending even to the always arbitrary placements of anyone's writing within the larger culture, even if by culture all that is meant or intended is the circulation of a body of writing among its readers and other writers, depends on the liquidation of an anterior historical site? If what is sought is a glimpse at hegemonic processes greater than the individuals writing, as great as those persons may be and as great as they think themselves to be. The chronicle of the Lodz ghetto enters history in its English translation in 1984. Fifteen years later, in 1999, the cultural history of American poetry receives the chronicle of two lives intersecting at the turning point of the burning question: to write or not, given such circumstances and conditions as cannot be directly represented, but which may be given their sharpest contour in contrast to the life conditions represented in the chronicle of the Lodz ghetto. Objects throw light. If I bring two to all appearances unlike objects into proximity and rub them together into commentary, interpretation, glossalia, reading these textual objects in such a way as they could not have imagined themselves being read, for one, the Boldereff-Olson correspondence, as important as it is to draw attention to the 1999 Wesleyan edition as a recomposition, beginning at the beginning but ending at an artificial timepoint, and so constructing a narrative where before there were only surviving records of life, around which there should always remain a strong measure of respect for the realtime fallibility of being human (which we cannot know without the chronicle of Lodz ghetto--"thrownness"--being itself as being 'error prone'--I am not a Jew, why are you throwing me in the Lodz ghetto?) This question may be imagined for many of the deportees arriving from Western Europe. Always this endless calling back to a previous and abandoned designation. Once there was a partitioned sector of a city that resigned themselves to their fate, a pre-existing manufacturing culture allowed itself to be organized into military production, at starvation wages, labor itself became criminalized--partitioned, contained, marked--the Jew as Worker--then, at that moment, on that threshold, without a State--so that the self-liquidation of this specially designated proletariat from within the arbitration of a religious hierarchy and political-police terror openly collaborating with the very forces--arrangements, arraignments--that seek to extinguish them, their society, their culture, their way of life, arrives towards an approximate image of manageability, administrative subjects from which all proofs of unruliness stand out and strike an affinity to fundamental indivisibility. The chronicle itself represents an effort to project, even to historical memory, the virtue of public order and the internal disciplining of a none-too-imaginary community. (We obeyed every protocol, every amendment to the administrative code, and we were still liquidated!) It is to the imaginary community of poets that the Poet of the Boldereff-Olson correspondence migrates, unconstrained by boundaries or any designation other than the self-projection operating in the form of the aggrandizing persona, the intimacy of private space lived as expression, creativity and its historical imagination sexualized, made mythic, assertively liberated. Both correspondents are well aware that they are writing in a form of belonging to the same history as Blake's mythographies and Keats' letters. Historical time itself is at issue, among forays into the early recesses of civilization--the history of writing--Mesopotomian, Mesoamerican--one driving at religion and the other at primordial being, primitiveness, irrationality, though they write equally with full awareness of the administration of literature against which the token, the gift, the talismanic _Call Me Ishmael_, functions as an originating counterforce. Boldereff writes as an imaginary Russian-passioned pilgrim to Kiev and the 'fantasy of a third Rome' (Mandelstam). Or, creative longing counterposed to communal belonging. Poetry has still not thought enough about the social and its multiple demarcations. Territories are integral to the definition of an exact space, map, grid, boundary, area, zone: partitioning and managing a target population. They must be made into something they are not. They must be made to appear more the same than they are. Anyone is every one of 'them.' They must be identified, catalogued, administered. These are among the first human beings to become data, and becoming data, excrescence. This is what happened in the Jewish ghetto of Lodz at mid-century, in advance. The counterweight? "A more architecturally developed variation of the banded city was proposed by Ivan Leonidov in his 1930 competition entry for the steel-producing settlement of Magnitogorsk. Although similar to ['the 1920s Russian theorist N.A.'] Milutin's basic scheme ['parallel zones'] it excludes the industrial zone from the band and, as a form of linear grid, allows for programmatic interaction among the remaining functions. In its high degree of abstraction, its absence of hierarchy, its unique interface between parallel zones, its access to open landscape, Leonidov's project continues to be an important theoretical model." (Albert Pope, _Ladders_. NY: Princeton Architectural Press, 1996, p. 67). By way of contrast: "The most consistent and didactic body of work on modern urban closure comes from the German theorist, Ludwig Hilberseimer. Hilberseimer's projects ... provide an important guide to the processes of postwar spatial production, specifically spatial 'implosion.' (Pope 57). ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:41:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: My AWP Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:08:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jamie Gaughran-Perez Subject: Re: novels (was I.D'd) In-Reply-To: <021401c40d70$2220ce10$da66fea9@Barnette> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can you see how often I get through my Poetics mail? I'm losing against the tide... my Poetics box is up to 305 unread messages again, when did that happen? RE Scalapino's Defoe -- I don't really know what to say about it. Search the Poetics archive for what others have said -- I'm a little hesitant to color your reading with mine... but one could say it's dealing in novel-form with some similar issues as The Way...? Perspective and lack there of, writing experience, writing in the present. It's narrative has a bit of a "road movie" quality to it, but has its own way of getting down the road? Source texts influence it all over the place and I swear, one of the more idiosyncratic sources is A-Ha's video for Take On Me. Or maybe that's just my idiosyncratic reading... Sun & Moon put it out a while back; grab it and dive in. Just too scattered today to give a better "review" -- but if you've found yourself spinning through Scalapino's work before, or through other experimental prose outtings then this will do you well I'm sure. jamie.gp Renee Ashley wrote: >Jamie, >I don't know Scalapino's Defoe at all. Could you tell us more about it? >Thanks, >Renee > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:19:18 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Cuba Gets Its Pubah; Roger Noriega Plans Bay Of Pigs II Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press Cuba Gets Its Pubah; Roger Noriega Plans Bay Of Pigs II; Uses Funds From Doomed Bush Campaign To Finance Havana Bloodbath: Opie To Do the Movie Version Starring Mel Gibson As The Late Jorge Mas Canosa; Films Working Title, 'The Resurrection Of Meyer Lansky According To the Gospel Of 'Wild Bill' Donovan': Pumped Up By Success of Haitian Kidnapping And Kerry Candidacy, Tenet And CIA Step Up Pressure On Havana But Refuse Dissidents' Requests For A Minimum Wage And Health Benefits Calling The Request Anti-American: Washington Post Wins 'William Randolph Hearst Award For Yellow Journalism' For The Tenth Straight Year by Jose Jesus Martidom They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:22:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Roommate sought, Chelsea, NYC Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Beautiful Chelsea apartment, parquet floors, terrace, eat-in kitchen, Empire State Building views, front and back yards (w/basketball court), cable. Available May 1, beyond affordable rent. Email editor@boogcity.com or call 212-842-BOOG (2664) as ever, David -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcity.blog-city.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:24:28 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: Scalapino's Defoe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know if this is helpful or not...but here's a little review of _Defoe_I wrote years ago for now defunct _TapRoot Reviews_ : I think that DEFOE is a work of genius on the scale of FINNEGAN'S WAKE, THE MAKING OF AMERICANS, THE DISASTERS OF WAR and GUERNICA. But, while Scalapino's work deserves comparison to that of Joyce, Stein, Goya and Picasso, it is Kathy Acker's oeuvre I want to invoke here. The universe of Acker's fiction-built-from-fiction is abusive, apocalyptic and "in your face." The horror (whore-her) of her narratives derives from the ways in which sexuality and violence are casually, causally and explicitly intertwined. Something related but different is happening in DEFOE. DEFOE enacts a kind of dull affect, a resolute flattening of language horizoning perception and consciousness, description and event. Fantasies, autobiography, commentary on current events, film and DEFOE itself, merge with dream narratives to produce a landscape less blatant but more terrifying than anything to be found in Acker's work. Scalapino's anger and passion are evident but mightily restrained. Her strategy of understatement pays off in a major way with DEFOE's overrwhelming cumulative effect. Working out of received fictions, Kathy Acker's writing highlights our culture's essential disfunctions. Scalapino's enacts a backdoor move on the received through a poetic phenomenology of the perceived in which "the fiction is so transparent and separated that it doesn't exist." DEFOE is one of those rare works of art which will not be exhausted of its meaning. And Leslie Scalapino is that rarest of writers--one that is utterly awake. Tom Beckett PS: visit my blog: http://vanishingpoints.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:32:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Ana Maria Uribe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Regina Pinto has, unfortunately, confirmed this. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "mIEKAL aND" To: Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 7:09 AM Subject: Ana Maria Uribe > [This post from early today suggests that Ana Maria Uribe has passed > away tho I've been unable to verify the information. Much of her work > lies firmly in the style of Brazilian Concrete.] > > > > From: "Jorge Luiz Antonio" > Date: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:39:26 AM America/Chicago > To: > Subject: [webartery] Ana Maria Uribe > Reply-To: webartery@yahoogroups.com > > Dear all > > During the month of February I found a free time to write a brief > review on Ana Maria Uribe which was published in the printed Jornal do > Margs (Museu de Arte do Rio Grande do Sul), or, Journal of Museum of > Art from Rio de Grande do Sul, South Brazil, in March, and is available > in: www.margs.org.br (click "revista" and, later, "Jornal do Margs" to > download the newspaper in Portuguese). I'm passing an English > translation of my review. > > When the edition was available on line, I wrote an email to Ana > Maria Uribe exactly on March 5th, 2004. I didn't know it would become a > tribute to her. > > Jorge Luiz Antonio > Brazilian Digital Art and Poetry on the Web > http://www.vispo.com/misc/BrazilianDigitalPoetry.htm > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------- > > Ana Maria Uribe and the Dance of Letters > > > > The poetry of Ana Maria is sprightly, it comes out of the printed > pages, it has the versatility of being suited to printed and electronic > media and explores each one in creative intermedia. Reading her printed > book offers us the spatialized words which evoke sounds, movements and > images. The CD-ROM or site bring us enchanted sounds and movements: > they are letters and colors that dance, dialogue, enchant, make us > laugh and think. On the homepage, the sound made by a ticking clock > marks a kind of time of reading: a strong and repeated sound which > invites the navigator to go on on his/her way, not to stop, and read > more and more: http://amuribe.tripod.com. > > The Argentinean Ana Maria Uribe, from Buenos Aires, is author of: > Tipoemas (Typoems,1968), typographic poems created by using the > typewriter Lettera; Anipoemas (Anipoems,1997), animated poems > reinvented for the web; Escaleras y Otros Anipoemas (Ladders and Others > Poems, 2001), a selection of her poems in CD-ROM; Tipoemas y Anipoemas > (Typoems and Anipoems, hand-made book, 2001) and El Circo: El gran > desfile (The Circus: The Grand Parade, Russian edition by Eter Panji of > World Visual Poetry collection, 2002). > > The site was built with the same concision as her poems: the routes are > clear, easy and agreeable, without heavy images that take long to > download. . Sounds, noises and voices accompany all the words in space > which move. The behaviour of the dancing letters indicates daily, > seemingly innocuous, automated and constant activities, but the way > this situations appears, it makes us laugh or think. It is what we can > notice in some words and titles such as: Burbujas (Bubbles), Panorama > desde un tren (A view from a train), Gimnasia (Gym), Se largó (It's > raining), Tren en marcha (A train in motion), Otoño (Autumn), De > Parménides a J. P. Sartre (From Parmenides to J.P. Sartre), Bowling, > Guggenheim Museum, and Hojas Rojas Secas (Dry Red Leaves), among others. > > "Poema Cortante" (Cutting Poem) at http://amuribe.tripod.com/sharp.html > is, for me, the limit of the media and the fusion of verbal, visual and > animation languages, one of the most important aspect which > characterizes this poet's work: a group of letters "o" draw the handle > of lamina (knife? dagger? sword? which is formed by a prolonged trace. > The poem format seems to suggest an "o" of admiration for the discovery > of the fusion of languages. > > > > > > > > The interviews given by Uribe - > http://www.uiowa.edu/~iareview/tirweb/feature/uribe/uribe.html and > http://www.officinadopensamento.com.br/officina/entre-vistas/entre- > vistas_ana_maria_uribe.htm - are very interesting and help us to know > the person who made this happy, playing and reflexive poetry. > > > > Jorge Luiz Antonio ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:41:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My review of Angus Fletcher's "A New Theory for American Poetry" in the = Philadelphia Enquirer: http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/entertainment/books/ -Joel __________________________________ Joel Weishaus Visiting Faculty Department of English Portland State University Portland, Oregon = =20 Home: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 Archive: www.cddc.vt.edu/host/weishaus/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 21:42:57 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cyrill Duneau Subject: l'Absente Comments: To: "COLLABORICIDE_HASHSHASHINS@yahoogroups.com" , "CYBERMIND@LISTSERV.AOL.COM" , "mayakovsky@yahoogroups.com" , "metairiekarine@wanadoo.fr" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Brouille les pistes deux personnages anonymes quartiers enfouis un bloc de béton Châtelet-Les Halles puis Montmartre, Montparnasse, la Butte-aux-Cailles Déni de dieu déni du diable enfin où s'arrête ma vie (love to death) au cours d'un plaidoyer saisir l'ambiance sur les marches le long de la Route 66 Cocktail de Crevettes/6 Escargots de Bourgogne/Cuisse de Canard Rôti au Poivre Vert calme les nerfs, désensibilise Demi : à partir de 1,52 euros (13°).M°corvisart dans son usine ce soleil perçant sur une chaise d'un stand de meubles Selon la police, une vraie femme, la mer et la mort files d’attente aux guichets me traversaient l'esprit plan biotox exercice quelques heures de souffrance, 5 véhicules de maraude quelques heures de plaisir métro plans trajets avec la RATP Agrandir l'image avec une extrême brutalité de quelles amours, de quelles ruptures? Ne crevez jamais une onde plane avec elle-même jeunes filles riches et inconnues "Beautiful Chelsea apartment, parquet floors, terrace, eat-in kitchen, Empire State Building views, front and back yards (w/basketball court), cable. Available May 1, beyond affordable rent." Après quasiment dix ans d'absence allée en profondeur sous le divan en géométrie fractale hors normes, un fantasme sans morale traumatisé par le roman et la vie des gens les passagers floués, sinon abusés, qui montent dans le bus du réel, yeux rouges au matin cabines téléphoniques faut pas les prendre au sérieux automatiques renaissants à sa perte ce soir là dans un bar soporifique, un faible pour l'alcool et le tabac mais le plus complet abandon une nuit d’hiver, sur un quai de gare, les neurones... In Morocco = rouge (1987). tout est bouleversé de peur, de drames et surtout d'ambiguïté in the Passage Jouffroy C'est elle, "bien sûr", qui a fait le premier pas cafés, halls et immeubles par hasard les patients le rythme frénétique de la ville (Les champs noirs du monde meurtri sont optionnels.) et les hologrammes se brisent near california luxury hotel amsterdam airport hotel or loire valley france to a new york C'est juste un nom pour la peau du caméléon ensorcelant, forcené d'un vin irrésistible, lourd et sensuel le grand laminoir au delà de l’espace-temps habituel CONFESSIONS EROTIQUES HACHETTE Prix éditeur : 6.4€ - 41.98FF - 7.51$ l'irrésistible appel du tapis roulant, la banda et agents antiterroristes en civil nettoyeur de tables, serveur, barman, marchandises (pâtisseries, poissons, légumes et lait), hommes à vélo, mal éveillés, facteurs, employés cinoches miteux, velours usé déchiré poussiéreux critique textuelle 6) amour 7) Sexe, douce et terrible noirceur, reste barbare marchands de fruits et légumes, flâneurs, foule, vie urbaine graffitis les eaux usées stagnaient pendant la révolte étudiante une baignoire remplie de sang cela ne vaut pas le poison des âmes dans la torpeur ta curiosité, tes idées, tes questions, tes expériences, tes révoltes, tes lectures C'est ça la mort, la vois-tu baisser les yeux et courber la tête? Chir ha Chirim raba (Câm Tu) retrouvée morte et glacée, ex-junkie déjà-vue des époques à la mort pour l'univers vieux cliché, logique amère de la distinction!! Abus. en moi le sang glacé, le blanc comateux pour séduire le métal de son fusil au bas du balcon et détruit les cervicales ici, le ciel est décomposé qui dérange aussi Le paradoxe est là et il pleut un aveugle en plus...) désenchanté, a juste le temps ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:21:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City presents: Braincase Press Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Please forward --------------- Boog City presents d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press in america This month's featured press: Braincase Press (Northampton, Mass.) Thurs. April 1, 6 p.m., free Aca Galleries 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. NYC Event will be hosted by Braincase press publisher and editor Noah Eli Gordon Featuring readings from: Eric Baus Jim Behrle Juliana Leslie Nick Moudry David Perry Sara Veglahn With a surprise musical guest It's a release party for new books by Baus, Behrle, and Perry. There will be wine, cheese, and fruit, too. Curated and with an introduction by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum Directions: C/E to 23rd St., 1/9 to 18th St. Venue is bet. 10th and 11th avenues http://braincase2.blogspot.com/ Next month: Oasis Press (Athens, Ohio), May 6 -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcity.blog-city.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:31:51 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: AWP In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit AWP was a really good event and getting to see so many Buffalo Listers and putting faces with names was great. I also like the postiveness and the fact that we all seemed all to be pulling in the same direction which is rare for poets. I am going to post my AWP on my blog but I think that most important thing to come out of this is that Poets who are innovative have allot in common and if we are going to be taken seriously we need to have a critical mass and positive activist mentality; I spent time with our great local Chicago poets, like Jesse Seldess, Kerri Sonnenberg, Chuck Stebelston, and John Tipton and I also spent time with great national poets like Peter Gizzi, Liz Willis, Catherine Daly, Jen Hofer,Sina Queyras, Brian Clements, Bob Perlman, Paul Hoover, Maxine Chernoff,Joe Amato and many others and there were great conversations, shared interests and a passion for poetry and language among all these people that is shared. It was kind of like that great Catholic idea, the Mystical Body except poetry is what binds and this is positive and important. I hope that here on on the buffalo list we can promote that kind of positive and passionate discorse and leave the petty and small conversations for others. What do you think? Ray Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetrycalendar.blogspot.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 18:40:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William A Sylvester Subject: Eric Gelsinger MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Eric Gelsinger holds your interest in his four page poem: WEARING A SWEATER ON THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH. It begins Once there was a Wounded Wolf who turned babies inside out Like wrappers picked off lollipops. [and concludes with an eerie pianissimo} ecopoetics #3 pp.75-79 106 Huntington Ave. Buffalo NY 14214 jskinner@buffalo.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 18:54:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William A Sylvester Subject: Joanne Kyger MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII What a voice she has, and talking about voices. SLEEPING WITH THE BBC At least they have a nice accent when they talk about the bombs and a slight twist of voice when they use the word "Bush" [and it ends:] sketching the dust in the wind. SKANKY POSSUM #9 page 50-51 2925 Higgens St Austin Texas 78722 Same issue includes Tom Clark, Eleni Sikelianos [also in FENCE] Jack Collum Nathaniel Tarn, Leslie Davis, and many others ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:54:55 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: From The Paws Of One Still Living Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed turn at the punctuation, you're all the rage I guess but that tone of sharp grit? that's mine the lashes are all woven from belly scraps not all biting creatures are wolves I say but I'm no scientist I guess, only sea bits come from my sweating, you could be more productive they tell me, strangers here are plucked one by one till they're all gone we're still here, they're now bits, & the bits? - they're now in the sea, only sea bits come from my sweating, that tone of sharp grit turns at the punctuation, why straw when every drop entertains? you want to water my brow with them? you could be more productive they tell me who comes up missing gets woven into my lashes I'll pile their air towering for my dessert, for my next trick, or have I said that before? turn you face up to the sea bit bosses if you can't look me in the eye sign on the line, at the punctuation, to give them an hour's leave, this paid tale is their favorite dream their lips, scraps spiking the water, were lost in a pile of bricks, my house creatures are half-built words what was to be their winding sheets now serve as doors, walk right in, turn left at the punctuation, you can join them in watering my brow, happy families are all alike, we'll peacefully wear locks of astonishment and shake the water from our hair you'll wear a belt of straw and ivy buds, with coral clasps and amber studs, imagine the sun fluttering in your paws thick five times over, owing to your rawness it broke and its scraps I wolf: a gentleman on my father's side was hanged for stealing horses _________________________________________________________________ Get reliable access on MSN 9 Dial-up. 3 months for the price of 1! (Limited-time offer) http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup&pgmarket=en-us&ST=1/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 19:26:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the veil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII the veil another short piece for the same project http://www.asondheim.org/caul3.mov here the dimensional just about disappears after starting like a bad train ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:43:47 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: natural translation Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 once we fled a language we could not pray in only to stay in this land: always to bury the dead head first in its translation -- _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 20:51:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Davenport on Pound In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Link to Guy Davenport's review of the Library of America POEMS AND TRANSLATIONS BY EZRA POUND, EDITED BY RICHARD SIEBURTH. (1,383 PAGES. $45): http://www.bookforum.com/davenport.html ___________________________________________________________ In philosophical terms, human liberty is the basic question of art. -- Joseph Beuys ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 22:11:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Announcing: Global Poetics Series Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Global Poetics: Reading and Lecture Series / April 2004 TAN LIN / New York, N.Y. Author of BlipSoak01 (Atelos Press) and visual/video artist STEVE McCAFFERY / Toronto, Ont. Author of Seven Pages Missing (2 vols., Coach House Press) Reading and Performance Monday, April 5, 3 PM Room 3234, 51 West Warren, Detroit Wayne State University / Free admission ***** BRENDA COULTAS / New York, N.Y. Author of A Handmade Museum (Coach House Press) MICHAEL GOTTLIEB / Lakeville, Conn. Author of Lost and Found (Roof Books) Reading Monday, April 12, 3 PM Room 3234, 51 West Warren, Detroit Wayne State University / Free admission ***** CARRIE NOLAND / Univ. of California, Irvine Author of Poetry at Stake: Lyric Aesthetics and the Challenge of Technology (Princeton Univ. Press) "Red Front/Black Front: Aim=E9 Cesaire, the Affaire Aragon, and Postcolonial Theory" Talk and Discussion Friday, April 23, 3 PM Humanities Center Conference Room 2147 Old Main / Wayne State University / Free admission ***** Curated by Barrett Watten, Carla Harryman, and Jonathan Flatley; sponsored= =20 by an Innovative Projects Grant, WSU Humanities Center. For more info=20 contact Carla Harryman at c.harryman@wayne.edu / 313-577-4988. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 00:17:28 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: New Flame rules MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While I still do not understand the significant difference of the new flame rules, I will say as an active member of poetix since 95 & a lurker before that, nearly unsolved flame controversy that has been created has been about the recently dead. AG is the third instance that comes immediately to my mind, (following Said, and Dorn) and as vitrolically ugly as the previous two. Members leave the list over these things. Those who are living appear to defend themselves quite well and every list removal has happened as a result of an attack on the living. Shouldn't we be just as concerned with the dead with this flame rule? Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 03:26:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: frieze / rally MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII http://www.asondheim.org/frieze.mov continuation < foofwa > track record of the elements http://www.asondheim.org/rally3.jpg they're trying to take the homes in the area through eminent domain brooklyn is as crooked as they come our rally - ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 03:58:58 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Spring... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit flame, pound, veil pull down.... 10 to 4:00...March 19/04 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 04:06:02 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Later Spring... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit pull down sweet spring the poet rises from his dreams the tree's a bud all is that is seems... drn..nearer 4:00..March 19 plus 10.../04 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 08:15:07 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Silliman's Blog Comments: To: WOM-PO , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, whpoets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT TOPICS: Magazine, book, or anthology? The between-ness of the One Shot publication. Writing as give: A family tradition Trobar Clus: A poetics of total engagement Eternal Sunshine of a Spotless Mind: Charlie Kaufman & the George Romero Poetry Conference Harryette Mullen, Lew Welch & Jim Behrle: Poetry & marketing (from Althusser to Baudrillard) The Philadelphia Progressive Poetry Calendar "Leaving the Atocha Station" - the elegy Meaning & market dynamics Brenda Iijima: Around Sea Charles Borkhuis: Surrealism, Language Poetry & New American Aesthetics Cid Corman: 1924-2004 Noah Eli Gordon: boxing with the ghost of Spicer http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ * * * My latest book Woundwood is available from Cuneiform Press: http://www.cuneiformpress.com/wound.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 07:53:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Jerome Rothenberg Subject: Travels for April & May 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Beginning on April 11 we will be off on travels that will involve a = month in New York and two weeks in Sapporo and Tokyo, Japan. As before = we expect to be picking up e-mail at the present address - = jrothenberg@cox.net - but also at Diane Rothenberg's e-mail address - = jdrothenberg@aol.com - & at our hotmail address: = jeromerothenberg@hotmail.com. =20 Our address and numbers in New York (from April 11 through May 11) are = as follows: =20 c/o Orshi Drozdik 67 Vestry Street=20 Apt. 2D=20 New York, NY 10013 tel. 212-274-8377 =20 For those who are interested and able, the following is the schedule of = readings and performances in the New York area: =20 April 18 -- group reading [with Drucker, Goldsmith, Prevalet] for Dieter = Roth exhibition [RothTime] at P.S. 1 Contemporary Art Center caf=E9, = 2:00-4:00 p.m.. =20 April 21 -- reading with Mercedes Roff=E9, St Marks Poetry Project, 2nd = Ave. at 10th St., 8:00 p.m. =20 April 27 - reading at Bard College at 4:30 p.m. =20 April 28 -- reading at Wesleyan University, Russell House, at 8:00 p.m.. =20 April 29- May 1 -- "Jerome Rothenberg Festival" at Fusion Arts Museum, = 57 Stanton St., one block south of Houston (May 1 solo reading with = assistance from composer/performer Charlie Morrow). For further = information call 212-995-5290. =20 For Japan we will be staying in Sapporo, Hokkaido, from May 13 to May 16 = and can be reached, if necessary, through Ryuta Imafuku = (81-11-588-2672). In Tokyo from May 17 to 26, we will be staying with = Nahomi Edamoto and can be reached at 81 (03) 447-2878. =20 The following is the schedule of Japanese readings and lectures: =20 May 14-16 Guest speaker & reader, symposium on Poet as Trickster, the = Sapporo University Institute of Cultural Studies, Sapporo, Japan. May 21 - Reading, Josai International University. =20 May 24 - Reading & talk, Center for Pacific and American Studies, = University of Tokyo (Komaba campus). =20 May 25 - Reading and talk on translation, Meikai University. We look forward to seeing some of you along the way. =20 JEROME AND DIANE ROTHENBERG ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:41:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: ** Have a Car? Get Paid to Distribute Boog City ** MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Distributor Needed for Boog City Looking for someone with a car who wants to make some extra $$ by distributing Boog City once a month to 40 drop spots, 35 in the East Village, five in Williamsburg. Email editor@boogcity.com or call (212) 842-2664 thanks, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 www.boogcity.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:24:49 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Re: Review Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Joel- Thanks for highlighting this intriguing new Fletcher book. I first learned of it as one of a number of source texts informing an ecopoetic correspondence between Marcella Durand & Tina Darragh. I've heard excerpts from the ongoing project. Something to look out for. >From: Joel Weishaus >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Review >Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:41:28 -0800 > >My review of Angus Fletcher's "A New Theory for American Poetry" in the >Philadelphia Enquirer: >http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/entertainment/books/ > >-Joel >__________________________________ > >Joel Weishaus >Visiting Faculty >Department of English >Portland State University >Portland, Oregon > >Home: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 >Archive: www.cddc.vt.edu/host/weishaus/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar – FREE! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:59:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: circular bump-map scans of brilliant organisms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII circular bump-map scans of brilliant organisms http://www.asondheim.org/womans.mov http://www.asondheim.org/woman2s.mov short and very small models for larger pieces which would occupy too much space and download. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:26:03 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: (no subject) Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Robert Wetvak's Haiti after Aristide: The Bullshit Doesn't Get Any More Transparent Than Wetvak: The Country That Major General Smedley Butler Made Safe For The National City Bank Boys Back In The Democratic Administration Of 1915 By Robert Wetvak, Legendary Policy Pimp They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:19:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: terra1@SONIC.NET Subject: You are invited to an evening of new works and dialogue In-Reply-To: <5.0.1.4.2.20040328220927.01953760@mail.wayne.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit please post and forward..... You are invited to an evening of new works and dialogue on what does community mean in an age of post-post modern high anxiety please join our special quest as they perform, display on the vision and value of their work. ****writers**** Chris Nealson Tanya Brolaski Stephen Vincent ****art work by**** Tayna Hollis Fran Blau Saturday, April 17, 2004 7:30 p.m. 3435 cesar chavez #327 San Francisco, CA 94110 in a night of dialogue & forward moving vision on poetry and the arts , all are invited to (please) bring a piece of work to share; a manifesto to read, a thesis to divulge, a vision/concept to offer . . . this night is about the dialogue . . . . and seeing where we are / going / doing... any questions contact: kari edwards terra1@sonic.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:42:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit deep-space photos move me I am showering in the universe universe churns my testicles like shredded polystyrene interaction muscle chicken breasts muscle stars who u gonna call love? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:24:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: terra1@SONIC.NET Subject: How Massachusetts state lawmakers . . . asks voters to ban gay marriage From: To: In-Reply-To: <000001c415ce$4fddd1c0$22016ace@satellite> References: <000001c415ce$4fddd1c0$22016ace@satellite> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit please forward... http://transdada.blogspot.com/ we need to be out there protesting.. we need to be fucking shuting it down.. no more discrimination... no more hate.. no more two tiered systems... fucking shut it down now.... I make a public stand to end this discrimination... and I will not enter a state that legalize discrimination... I will not read my poetry in public unless it has to do with an action to shut this hate down... enough... if we continue to stand by and watch we are all guilty of any hate that comes from some emboldened fool.. we can no longer stand by... its time to act or loose more rights... and I want to know who is next.. who else will lose their rights as the rest of us continue life as ussual... today... @ http://transdada.blogspot.com/ is a day to remember... Thousands Protest As Massachusetts Marriage Debate Resumes How Massachusetts state lawmakers voted Monday on a revised constitutional amendment . . . asks voters to ban gay marriage (this is an act of cowardness) also: -Thousands Protest As Massachusetts Marriage Debate Resumes -Ireland To Recognize Gay Unions -Same-Sex Civil Unions on the Way in UK -Albany refuses licenses for same-sex marriages -West Hollywood mayor, partner enter domestic partnership -Quotes from Legislature's debate on gay marriage the weekend@ http://transdada.blogspot.com/ -Catholic Mass disturbed after anti-gay marriage video shown -Catholic Nun Sr. Rosemary Brennan Joins Protestant, Jewish Leaders -Groups call for safeguards to protect gays in schools -Two women wed in county church in union of politics and tradition ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:29:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Save Prodigy Review!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Save Prodigy Review READ-A-THON, a special fundraising event, organized by volunteers,=20 in support of THE PRODIGY REVIEW, a teen literary=20 magazine=20 Readings, a silent auction... more... Sunday, April 4th, 2004 Noon till 6:00 P.M. Writers & Books 470 University Avenue, Rochester, NY for more info: contact Karen VanMeenan 585-473-2590 or karen@wab.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:31:49 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM Subject: New @ Bridge St: Armantrout, 2 x Bernstein, Schneeman colabs, Retallack essays, Lisa Robertson, Anselm Berrigan CD, Scalapino, Jeff Clark, Prynne, Godfrey, Negri, Cadiot &&& MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ordering and discount information at the end of this post. Thanks for your=20 support. THE OPEN: MAN AND ANIMAL, Giorgio Agamben, Stanford, 102 pgs, $15.95.=20 THE SELF-DISMEMBERED MAN: SELECTED LATER POEMS OF GUILLAUME APOLLINAIRE,=20 trans Donald Revell, Wesleyan, 141 pgs, $15.95. "We love you o life and we p= rovoke=20 you" UP TO SPEED, Rae Armantrout, Wesleyan, 69 pgs, $13.95. "If sadness / is akin= =20 to patience, // we're back!" COLLECTED POEMS, Paul Auster, Overlook, cloth $24.95. "But will it want us?" SOMEBODY BLEW UP AMERICA & OTHER POEMS, Amiri Baraka, House of Nehesi, 55=20 pgs, $15. "You ugly because you eat everybody and belch Hollywood" THE ESSENCE OF RAPARATIONS: AFRO-AMERICAN SELF-DETERMINATION & REVOLUTIONARY= =20 DEMOCRATIC STRUGGLE IN THE UNITED STATES, Amiri Baraka,=20 House of Nehesi, 44 pgs, $15. THE SWEET SINGER OF MODERNISM & OTHER ART WRITINGS 1985 - 2003, Bill Berkson= ,=20 Qua Books, 265 pgs, $20. "Joan Mitchell told the interviewer Yves Michaud i= n=20 1986: "I imagine a sort of scaffolding made of painting stretchers around a=20 lot of colored chaos as an identity." WORLD ON FIRE, Charles Bernstein, Nomados, 19 pgs, $12. "And the wave goes o= n=20 periverbal autodeterrent" CONTROLLING INTERESTS, Charles Bernstein, Roof, 79 pgs, $11.95. Back in=20 print. "Atumble time the by only night all window" PICTURES FOR PRIVATE DEVOTION, Anselm Berrigan, Narrow House Recordings,=20 audio cd $14.95. 25 tracks including My Babysitters, The Position of the Pla= nets=20 on the Human Forehead, My Poem, Universal Generic Themes and Meanings, Not A= ll=20 There, Strangers in the Nest, Anti-Preening Poem, and from Zero star Hotel. EUNOIA, Christian Bok, audio cd, $16.95. "Fans clap as a fat-cat jazzman and= =20 a bad-ass bassman blab gangsta rap -- a gangland fad that attacks what Brah= ms=20 and Franck call art" FUTURE, FORMER, FUGITIVE, Olivier Cadiot, trans Cole Swensen, Roof, 159 pgs,= =20 $13.95. "Boom. Uh oh what happened?" TAO DROPS, I CHANGE, Steve Carll & Bill Marsh, Bathysphere Press/subpress, 6= 0=20 pgs, $12. "making plans is a crime against memory" MUSIC AND SUICIDE, Jeff Clark, FSG, cloth 67 pgs, $20. "Our antitheses drain= =20 cathedrals with droll catheters / meant to clean" Notebooks 1956 - 1978, Danielle Collobert, trans Norma Cole, Litmus, 84 pgs,= =20 $12. "pretending to write --- to resolve little problems --- of form ---=20 that's all bullshit --- not even any real pleasure writing --- more like gas= ping=20 ---" BORN2, Allison Cobb, Chax, 99 pgs, $16. "Come watch the little box book form= " INVOLUNTARY VISION _after Akira Kurosawa's Dreams_, ed Michael Cross, Avenue= =20 B, 110 pgs, $12. Ryan Bartlett, Julia Bloch, Tanya Brolaski, Trevor Calvert,= =20 Michael Cross, Eli Drabman, Geoffrey Dyer, James Meetze, Stephen Ratcliffe,=20 Cynthia Sailer, & Elizabeth Willis. DESERT ISLANDS AND OTHER TEXTS 1953-1974, Gilles Deleuze, Semiotext(e), 321=20 pgs, $17.95. Includes Instincts and Intuitions, Bergson's Conception of=20 Difference, How Jarry's Pataphysics Opened the Way for Phenomenology, The Ph= ilosophy=20 of Crime Novels, Humans: A Dubious Existence, Nietzsche's Burst of Laughter,= =20 Hume, Your Special "Desiring MAchines": What Are They?, Hot and Cool, Noamdi= c=20 Thought, Faces and Surfaces, &&&. LEAVE THE ROOM TO ITSELF, Graham Foust, Ahsahta Press, 53 pgs, $12.95. "Hope= =20 makes torture / possible." PRIVATE LEMONADE, John Godfrey, Adventures in Poetry, 100 pgs, $12.50.=20 "Foolish bright nowhere thing" LOST AND FOUND, Michael Gottlieb, Roof, 73 pgs, $11.95. "The way, over the=20 years, we come to resemble our clay." DURER IN THE WINDOW, REFLEXIONS ON ART, Barbara Guest, Roof, oversized=20 paperback color illustrations throughout 68 pgs, $24.95. Articles, essays, a= nd=20 collaborations on/with Arp, Brainard, Felter, Tony Smith, Frankenthaler, Abb= ott,=20 Bourgeois, Rose, Mondrian, Hartigan, Goodnough, Tuttle. Several poems also. KIDNAPPED, Susan Howe, Coracle, cloth unpaginated limited edition of 300=20 copies, $65. "Quiet for it is a small / world of covered bone" BEDHANGINGS II, Susan Howe, Coracle, cloth unpaginated limited edition of 30= 0=20 copies, $35. "dreaming pregnable dreams" AROUND SEA, Brenda Iijima, O Books, one hundred three pages, $12. "Yielding=20 foliage as an idea" RING OF FIRE, Lisa Jarnot, Salt, 97 pgs, $13.95. Back in print. "beside=20 merganser's at the sea's night's shore." ISLAND OF LOST SOULS, Kevin Killian, 76 pgs, $16. A play. "Will Gabrielle=20 Kerouac be able to protect the befuddled genius of her son, Jack, from Holly= wood=20 producers who want to make a musical out of his masterpiece, _On the Road_,=20= a=20 book she herself wrote while he was unconscious?" A POSSIBLE WORLD, Kenneth Koch, Knopf, 96 pgs, $15. New in paper. "MONDO=20 completes// BUMP" SUN OUT: SELECTED POEMS 1952-1954, Kenneth Koch, 141 pgs, $15. New in paper.= =20 "The yo-yo's mother is not from Paris." BLIPSOAK01, Tan Lin, Atelos, 325 pgs, $12.95. "The house is wired with orang= e=20 buttons, chi chi" THE OBLIGATION OF THE DIFFICULT WHOLE: Postmodernist Long Poems, Brian=20 McHale, U. Alabama, 311 pgs, $29.95. Chapters on Merrill, Tolson & Dorn, Hil= l &=20 Schwerner, Ashbery, McGrath & Andrews, and Susan Howe.=20 RHYTHM SCIENCE, Paul D Miller aka DJ Spooky that subliminal kid, MIT Press,=20 126 pgs with audio cd, $17.95. "Opposites extract."=20 COLUMBIA AND THE UNITED STATES: WAR, UNREST AND DESTABILIZATION, Mario A.=20 Murillo, Seven Stories, 232 pgs, $10.95.=20 NEDRI ON NEGRI, Antonio Negri in conversation with Anne Dufourmantelle,=20 Routledge, 201 pgs, $17.95. "What I am most afraid of, really, is lacking pa= ssion." SELECTED LETTERS, Charles Olson, ed Ralph Maud, U. Cal, cloth 493 pgs, $10.9= 8=20 (regularly $60). Remainder price, limited number available. COLLECTED PROSE, Charles Olson, ed Donald Allen & Ben Friedlander, U Cal,=20 paper 471 pgs, $9.98 (Regularly $24.95). Remainder price, very limited numbe= rs=20 available at this price.=20 THE POKER, Third Issue Fall 03, ed Daniel Bouchard, 89 pgs, $10. Fanny Howe,= =20 James Thomas Stevens, Dale Smith, Jacqueline Waters, Alan Davies, Gleb=20 Shulpyakov, Andrew Shelling, Jules Boykoff, Bruce Holsapple, Kevin Davies in= terviewed=20 by Marcella Durand, essays by William Carlos Williams, Fanny Howe, & Aaron=20 Kunin, Noah Eli gordon on Anselm Berrigan. FURTHERANCE, J. H. Prynne, The Figures, 107 pgs, $14. "Pandora wrote down he= r=20 next sight / of the ossuary in cryptic notation, / scribbled on her pad; she= =20 knew / the dockets flailed in price shrinkage." THE POETHICAL WAGER, Joan Retallack, U Cal, 279 pgs, $21.95. Contents:=20 Introduction: Essay as wager, The Poethical wager, Wager as Essay, Blue Note= s on the=20 Know Ledge, Poethic of the Improbable: Rosmarie Waldrop and the Uses of Form= ,=20 The Experimental Feminine, The Scarlet Aitch: Twenty-Six Notes on the=20 Experimental Feminine, :RE:THINKING:LITERARY:FEMINISM: (three essays onto sh= aky=20 ground, The Difficulties of Gertrude Stein, I & II. Four on Cage: Geometries= of=20 Attention, Fig. 1, Ground Zero, Fig. 2: John Cage-- May 18, 2005, Poethics o= f a=20 Complex Realism, UNCAGED WORDS: John Cage in Dialogue with chance. OCCASIONAL WORK AND SEVEN WALKS FROM THE OFFICE FOR SOFT AFCHITECTURE, Lisa=20 Robertson, Clear Cut Press, $12.95. "We wanted to be the charmed recipients=20= of=20 massive energies. Why not?" THE CHECKBOOK AND THE CRUISE MISSLE: CONVERSATIONS WITH ARUNDHATI ROY,=20 interviews by David Barsamian, South End, 178 pgs, $16.=20 INTERVAL, Kaia Sand, Edge, 77 pgs, $10. "Without a face it's not a clock." DAHLIA'S IRIS: SECRET AUTOBIOGRAPHY AND FICTION, Leslie Scalapino, FC2, 213=20 pgs, $13.95. "Society is 'only' an orchid parasite fostering war." PAINTER AMONG POETS: THE COLLABORATIVE ART OF GEORGE SCHNEEMAN, ed Ron=20 Padgett, Granary, oversized paperback color illustrations throughout 127 pgs= ,=20 $29.95. We have a limited number of copies with unique drawings by George on= the=20 title page. The book features articles by and collaborations with Padgett, T= ed=20 Berrigan, Carter Radcliff, Peter Schjeldahl, Lewis MacAdams, Dick Gallup, An= ne=20 Waldman, Michael Brownstein, Alice Notley, Bill Berkson, Tom clark, Larry=20 Fagin, Steve Katz, Ted Greenwald, and Lewis Warsh.=20 A SENTIMENTAL JOURNEY: MEMOIRS, 1917-1922, Viktor Shklovsky, Dalkey Archive,= =20 305 pgs, $13.95. Back in print. "Later, specialists did the killing." TJANTING, Ron Silliman, intro by Barrett Watten, Salt, 211 pgs, $17.95. Back= =20 in print. "The lines about sex mean swimming." GOEST, Cole Swensen, Alice James Books, 63 pgs, $13.95. "it's called=20 solmifying" A GRAMMAR OF THE MULTITUDE, Paolo Virno, Autonomedia, 117 pgs, $13.95.=20 "Post-Fordism is the communism of capital." THE ESCAPE, Jo Ann Wasserman, Futurepoem, 120 pgs, $14. "September is ringed= =20 this way: a mistake" AVATAR BODIES: A TANTRA FOR POSTHUMANISM, Anna Weinstone, U Minnesota, 227=20 pgs. $17.95. "Posthumanism has thus far focused nearly exclusively on=20 human-technology relations. Avatar Bodies_ develops a posthumanist vocabular= y for=20 human-to-human relationships that relies on our capacities for devotion,=20 personality, and pleasure." THE GREAT AMERICAN NOVEL, William Carlos Williams, Green Integer, 125 pgs,=20 $10.95.=20 "If I make a word I make myself into a word." LIGHTS OUT, Geoffrey Young, The Figures, 171 pgs, $15. "I saw Blue Mitchell=20 in a ball of light / playing 'Filthy McNasty' / on Mercer Street at dawn." CONVERSATIONS WITH ZIZEK, Slavoj Zizek & Glyn Daly, Polity, 171 pgs, $19.95. Le Style Apollonaire / The Writing of Guillaume Apollinaire, Louis Zukofsky,= =20 ed with intro by Serge Gavronsky, foreword by Jean Daive, Wesleyan, 243 pgs,= =20 $24.95. "Suppression de la douleur po=E9tique" Some Bestsellers: THE I HATE REPUBLICANS READER, ed Clint Willis, Thunder's Mouth Press, 417=20 pgs, $13.95. IF I WERE WRITING THIS, Robert Creeley, New Directions, 99 pgs cloth, $21.95= . GERTRUDE STEIN: THE LANGUAGE THAT RISES, 1923-1934, Ulla Dydo, Northwestern,= =20 cloth 686 pgs, $49.95.=20 BLACK DOG SONGS, Lisa Jarnot, Flood Editions, 55 pgs, $13. DEER HEAD NATION, K. Selim Mohammad, Tougher Disguises, 120 pgs, $12. COLLECTED POEMS, Tom Raworth, Carcanet, 576 pgs (a few signed copies left),=20 $29.95. GUYS LIKE US: CITING MASCULINITY IN COLDWAR POETICS, Michael Davidson, U=20 Chicago, 281 pgs, $22.50. MY LIFE IN THE NINETIES, Lyn Hejinian, Shark Books, 88 pgs, $12. THE FATALIST, Lyn Hejinian, Omnidawn, 84 pgs, $12.95. READING THE ILLEGIBLE, Craig Dworkin, Northwestern, 238 pgs, $29.95. SOME VALUES OF LANDSCAPE AND WEATHER, Peter Gizzi, Wesleyan, 96 pgs, $13.95. DUDE, WHERE'S MY COUNTRY?, Michael Moore, Warner, 249 pgs, $24.95. MUSIC OR HONESTY, Rod Smith, Roof, $12.95. STRUCTURES OF FEELING, Hung Q. Tu, Krupskaya, 107pgs, $11. THE ACTIVIST, Renee Gladman, Krupskaya, 145 pgs, $11. LAST ONE OUT, Deborah Richards, Subpress, 93 pgs, $12. THE DIRTY HALO OF EVERYTHING, Geoffrey Dyer, Krupskaya, 79 pgs, $11. SKINCERITY, Laura Elrick, Krupskaya, 82 pgs, $11.00.=20 THE LETTERS OF ROBERT DUNCAN AND DENISE LEVERTOV, Stanford, 857 pgs, $39.95 COMPLETE CINEMATIC WORKS, Guy Debord, AK Press, cloth 258 pgs, $29. CHANCES ARE FEW, Lorenzo Thomas, Blue Wind, 141 pgs, $19.95. LYRIC INTERVENTIONS: FEMINISM, EXPERIMENTAL POETRY, AND CONTEMPORARY=20 DISCOURSE, Linda A. Kinnahan, U Iowa, cloth 277 pgs, $39.95. GONE, Fanny Howe, U CA, 121 pgs, $16.95. LOVE, LIKE PRONOUNS, Rosmarie Waldrop, Omnidawn, 119 pgs, $12.95. BLINDSIGHT, Rosmarie Waldrop, New Directions, 114 pgs, $15.95. 248 MGS., A PANIC PICNIC, Susan Landers, O Books, 83 pgs, $12. REMOVED FOR FURTHER STUDY: THE POETRY OF TOM RAWORH, ed Nate Dorward, $19.=20 THE BLUE BOOKS, Nicole Brossard, Coach House, 347 pgs, $19.95.=20 AS IN EVERY DEAFNESS, Graham Foust, Flood Editions, 66 pgs, $13. SELECTED WRITINGS Vol 4 1938-1940, Walter Benjamin, Harvard,$39.95.=20 TIS OF THEE, Fanny Howe, music by Miles Anderson, directed by Nya Patarinos,= =20 Atelos, 95 pgs with audio CD, $12.95. THE CONSTRUCTIVIST MOMENT: FROM MATERIAL TEXT TO CULTURAL POETICS, Barrett=20 Watten, Wesleyan, $27.95. ZITHER & AUTOBIOGRAPHY, Leslie Scalapino, Wesleyan, $14.95. PARIS, CAPITAL OF MODERNITY, David Harvey, Routledge, 372 pgs, $30. FASHIONABLE NOISE: ON DIGITAL POETICS, Brian Kim Stefans, Atelos, $12.95. TURNERESQUE, Elizabeth Willis, Burning Deck, $10. WHAT IS POETRY: Conversations with the American Avant-Garde, Daniel Kane,=20 Teachers & Writers, 185 pgs, $17.95. ROBERT CREELEY CD, Robert Creeley, Jafjaguwar, $14. DIGRESSISONS ON SOME POEMS BY FRANK O'HARA: A MEMOIR, Joe Leseur, FSG, $25. HOW TO LIVE / WHAT TO DO: H.D.'S CULTURAL POETICS, Adalaide Morris, $34.95. THE SLEEP THAT CHANGED EVERYTHING, Lee Ann Brown, Wesleyan, 175 pgs, $14.95. ROMANIAN POEMS, Paul Celan, Green Integer, 76 pgs, $10.95. THE BEGINNER, Lyn Hejinian, Tuumba, $10. ZERO STAR HOTEL, Anselm Berrigan, Edge, $14. 9:45, Kit Robinson, Post-Apollo, (signed copies), 31 pgs, $10. FORCES OF IMAGINATION: WRITING ON WRITING, Barbara Guest, Kelsey Strret, 10= 8=20 pgs, $14. WALTZING MATILDA, Alice Notley, Faux Press, 133 pgs, $13.50. SEVEN PAGES MISSING VOLUME TWO: REVIOUSLY UNCOLLECTED TEXTS 1968-2000. Steve= =20 McCaffery, Coach House, 381 pgs, $19.95. THE NO-NONSENSE GUIDE TO THE ARMS TRADE, Gideon Burrows, Verso, 141 pgs, $10= . SCRATCH SIDES: POETRY, DOCUMENTATION and IMAGE-TEXT PROJECTS, Kristin=20 Prevallet, Skanky Possom, 73 pgs, $10. PLATFORM, Rodrigo Toscano, Atelos, 231 pgs, $12.95. ENOUGH, ed Rick London & Leslie Scalapino, O Books, 158 pgs, $16. UNDER THE SUN, Rachel Levitsky, Futurepoem, 81 pgs, $12. DOVECOTE, Heather Fuller, Edge, 90 pgs, $10. TELLING IT SLANT: AVANT-GARDE POETICS OF THE NINETIES, ed. Mark Wallace and Steven Marks, U Alabama, 446 pgs, $29.95. SLOWLY, Lyn Hejinian, Tuumba, 43 pgs, $10. THE CRAVE, Kit Robinson, Atelos, 120 pgs, $12.95. NEW COLLECTED POEMS, George Oppen, ed Michael Davidson, Preface by Eliot Weinberger, New Directions, cloth 433 pgs, $37.95. BK OF (H)RS, Pattie McCarthy, Apogee Press, 59 pgs, $12.95.=20 ORDERING INFORMATION: List members receive free shipping on orders of more than $20. Free shipping + 10% discount on orders of more than $30. There are two ways to order: 1. E-mail your order to aerialedge@aol.com with your address & we will bill you with the books. or 2. via credit card-- you may call us at 202 965 5200 or e-mail aerialedge@aol.com w/ yr add, order, card #, & expiration date & w= e will send a receipt with the books. Pease remember to include expiration date. We must charge shipping for orders out of the US. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 00:27:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: salt \ planet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII http://www.asondheim.org/lakes.mov http://www.asondheim.org/laketubes.mov http://www.asondheim.org/laketube3s.mov salt \ planet ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 19:42:13 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Susan M. Schultz" Subject: tinfish press news Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wrote a long message about the wonders of Tinfish which was rejected by poetics. So now I'm reduced to saying that after a year and a half of wrangling, the IRS has given Tinfish Press non-profit status so that we can publish a full-range of Hawai`i and international poetries Please take a look at our site http://tinfishpress.com and, even if you choose not to buy from us, you can make a donation! aloha, Susan Susan M. Schultz http://tinfishpress.com now available: _And Then Something Happened_ http://saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1844710165.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 06:06:39 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "subrosa@speakeasy.org" Subject: SUBTEXT reading series - Seattle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subtext continues its monthly series of experimental writing with reading= s by Anselm Berrigan and Karen Weiser at the Richard Hugo House on Wednes= day, April 7, 2004. Donations for admission will be taken at the door on = the evening of the performance. The reading starts at 7:30pm. Anselm Berrigan is the author of Zero Star Hotel and Integrity & Dramatic= Life (both from Edge Books). He is also the author of a few chapbooks, i= ncluding Strangers in the Nest (Dolphin), They Beat Me Over the Head With= a Sack (Edge), and On the Premises (GAS). A cd of poetry (no music) was = recently released by Narrow House Records. He lives in New York City, and= is the Artistic Director of the Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church. Karen Weiser lives in New York City where she is developing a long-term l= ove for Milton. Her chapbook, published by Pressed Wafer (2002), is entit= led Eight Positive Trees and she co-authored the chapbook Underneath the = Bright Discus (1998) published by Potes and Poets Press. Poems will be ap= pearing this winter and spring in upcoming issues of Van Gogh's Ear, 6x6,= and Lungfull! Magazine. The future Subtext 2004 schedule is: May 5, 2004: Charles Altieri (Berkeley) and Steve Shaviro (Seattle) - The= Critic As Performer June 2. 2004: TBD July 7, 2004: Subtext 10th Anniversary Reading August 4, 2004: Nathaniel Tarn & TBD For info on these & other Subtext events, see our website: http://www.spe= akeasy.org/~subtext ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 01:16:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: flight song MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII flight song / / : < > / / : < > / / : , , . / / : , , ca caul ul . / / : , , ch chor orus us. / / : , , dd ddda danc nce. / / : , , de deat athf hfug ugue ue. / / : , , en endo dofe femp mpir ire. / / : , eu euro rope pe . / / : , , fr frie ieze ze. / / : , , ju jump mpin in. / / : , , ju jump mpin inn. / / : , k. / / : , , la lake ke. / / : , , la lake ketu tube be. / / : , , la lake ketu tube be . / / : , , la last stem empi pire re. / / : , , mi miam ami . / / : , , mu murm rmer er. / / : , , oc ocea ean. / / : , , ru ruin ined ed. / / : , , se seam amou ount nt . / / : , , se seam amou ount nt . / / : , , se seam amou ount nt . / / : , tr tra. / / : , , wo woma man s. / / : , , wo woma mans ns. / / : , , xz xzai ais. / / : , , nd ndla last st. / / : , , bu buff ffal alo . / / : , , bu butt tter erfl fly. / / : , , bu butt tter erfl fly . / / : , , bu butt tter erfl fly . / / : , , bu butt tter erfl fly . / / : , , bu butt tter erfl fly . / / : , , bu butt tter erfl fly . / / : , , bu butt tter erfl fly . / / : , , bu butt tter erfl fly . / / : , , ka kanj njis is. / / : , , ma mamu mu. / / : , , pr prep epar are. / / : , , sc scan an. / / : , , se seam amou ount nt. / / : , , se seam amou ount nt . / / : , , se seam amou ount nt . / / : , , wa walk lk . / / : , , wa walk lk . / / : , , wa walk lk . / / : , , wa walk lk . / / : , , wa walk lk . / / : , , wa walk lk . / / : , , wa walk lk . / / : , , wa walk lk . / / : , , wa walk lk . / / : , , wa walk lk . / / : , , wa walk lk . / / : , , wa walk lk . / / : , , wa walk lk . / / : , , wa walk lk . / / : , , wa walk lk . / / : , , wa walk lk . / / : , , wa walk lk . / / : , , wa walk lk . / / : , , wa walk lk . / / : , , wa walk lk . / / : , , wa walk lk . / / : , , wa walk lk . / / : , , wa walk lk . / / : , , wa walk lk . / / : , , wa wate ter . / / : < > / / : < > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 04:33:06 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Spring... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wake up sleeping poets time for the nite job... drn..late 4:30...03/30/...04... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:52:15 -0500 Reply-To: Mike Kelleher Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Kelleher Organization: Just Buffalo Literary Center Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 3-29-04 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WORKSHOPS JUST BUFFALO IS ACCEPTING APPLICATIONS FOR FALL WORKSHOP INSTRUCTORS. Just Buffalo offers writing workshops year round to all experience levels in poetry, fiction, drama, screenwriting, essay writing and publication. We are looking for published writers to teach workshops in the Fall of 2004. Courses can be single day courses, or they can meet once a week for two, four, six or eight weeks. They can meet evenings during the week or Saturday mornings. Please send a cover letter, resume, and course description to Workshop Application, Just Buffalo Literary Center, 2495 Main St., Ste 512, Buffalo, NY 14214 or email it to Mike Kelleher at mjk@justbuffalo.org. WORLD OF VOICES Thanks to a grant from the John R. Oishei Foundation, Just Buffalo and White Pine Press are able to bring four White Pine authors per year to Buffalo for Writer Residencies. During a week in Buffalo, each will do an in-depth school residency, make visits to local schools, and do community readings and talks. Books and on-line study guides will be available for local schools and libraries in advance of the author's visit. John Brandi, World of Voices Residency: Monday, March 29 - Friday, April 2 Monday, March 29, Visit to International School #45, Buffalo, NY Tuesday, March 30, East Aurora High School, East Aurora, NY Wednesday, March 3, Visit to Lakeshore Senior High School, Angola, NY IN THE HIBISCUS ROOM The Hibiscus Room at Just Buffalo is located in the Tri-Main Center, 2495 Main St., Ste 512 7:30 p.m. Pablo Neruda Centenary Reading Just Buffalo and White Pine Press celebrate the Centennial of the birth of the great Chilean poet, Pablo Neruda. Visiting poet John Brandi will discuss Neruda and read from work influenced by Neruda's poetry. Dennis Maloney, translator of three books of Neruda's poetry, will read from his translations and discuss Neruda's impact on the world of poetry. Bring your favorite Neruda poem to read. Thursday, April 1, Reading and Q &A, Erie Community College Downtown Campus 12:15 p.m. Friday, April 2, Visit to Hutchinson Central Technical High School, Buffalo, NY John Brandi is an artist and poet, author of thirty-six books of poetry, including Heartbeat Geography: selected and uncollected poems 1966-1994 and most recently, In What Disappears, both from White Pine Press. His paintings and collages are in collections worldwide. In his introduction to John Brandi's Heartbeat Geography, Scott Nicolay likens Brandi's poems to footprints: they are at once traces of his travels and evidence of the slight division between his body and the land. These "footprints" range from free-form lyrics with simple refrains to the seventeen loaded syllables of American haiku. He writes of God and gods, lust and love, the dignity of conch diggers, goatherds, peach pickers, stowaways, believers, breakdancers and the newly born. His observations reflect his ever-changing surroundings, his growth and age, the political moment, his affirmation of adventure, and always, his Whitmanian love of the whole untidy mass of experience. Downloadable reader's guide is available on the Just Buffalo website under "World of Voices." NJOZI JUST BUFFALO SLAMFEST WEEKEND April 2, 7 p.m., Open Mic Jam with New York poets, $10 April 3, 2 p.m., Teen Poetry Slam, $5 April 3, 7 p.m., Invitational Slam, $10 Allen Hall University at Buffalo South Campus (Next to Park & Ride) Njozi Promotions in conjunction with Just Buffalo present the Njozi SlamFest Weekend. We will be kicking off "National Poetry Month" with a showcase that will not be forgotten in the near future. Poets representing New York City, Toronto, Canada; Cleveland, Ohio and Washington, D.C. Friday night will be an off the hook Open Mic Jam featuring Jive Poetic, Mahogany Browne and Brother Earl from New York City. Saturday afternoon, April 3 will be the Njozi Teen Poetry Slam! We will have Dee Jays, door prizes and a lot of fun. The main event, the Buffalo Invitational Slam, takes place at 8 p.m. on Saturday. The registration is $25 for performers. The Grand Prize is $500 in cash to the man or woman left standing after 3 rounds. Pre-registration is a must so contact us ASAP. If you have any questions send an email to Njozi@hotmail.com. This promises to be a very memorable event! APRIL IS NATIONAL POETRY MONTH Poetry to Go Each year, Just Buffalo marks National Poetry Month with Poetry To Go, a month-long poetry celebration. In addition to all the readings we will be sponsoring around the city, we will be distributing small bags filled with poem-cards people can take with them in order to carry poetry through the day. Poetry. BOOMDAYS Celebration Friday, April 2, 4 p.m. to 12 p.m., The Pier in Buffalo BOOMDAYS is a grassroots Spring celebration, commencing with the lifting of the Lake Erie-Niagara River Ice Boom. BOOMDAYS Niagara Poetry To Go Contest Winners Read! This years winners are: Adults 1st Prize, Martha Deed 2nd Prize, Rob Nesbitt 3rd Prize, Joyce Kessel High School, Jeremy Topolski, North Tonowanda Catholic Junior High School, Justin Grant, City Honors Elementary School, Jessica Lee Martin, Como Park Elementary School NEW WEBSITE Just Buffalo has a new website: http://www.justbuffalo.org. Please share this link with anyone you think might want it and feel free to link to it from your site. If you would like to add a publication, organization, contest, conference, resource, etc. to the list of writer links, please write Mike Kelleher (information below). SPOKEN ARTS RADIO W/ Mary Van Vorst 6:35 and 8:35 a.m. Thursdays and 8:35 a.m. Sundays on WBFO 88.7 FM April 1 & 4 - ED ROBERSON (In the Hibiscus Room) April 15 & 18 - YUSEF KOMUNYAKAA (Collaborations and Connections) April 29 & May 2 - SUSAN RICH (World of Voices) CALL FOR WORK An anthology of anti-war poems by local poets and writers is being put together. Submissions are welcome and can be formatted in Word as an attachment or in text. May 1, 2004, is the deadline. They can be e-poemed To: Chuck Culhane c/o Peace Center 2123 Bailey Avenue Buffalo, NY 14211 (716) 894-2013 _______________________________ Mike Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center 2495 Main St., Ste. 512 Buffalo, NY 14214 716.832.5400 716.832.5710 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk@justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:05:49 -0500 Reply-To: Mike Kelleher Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "Due to some formatting problem beyond my meagre understanding,". Rest of header flushed. From: Mike Kelleher Subject: E-Mail Correction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The real email for submissions of Anti-War poems is culhane9@hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:36:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lori Emerson Subject: Reading & Talk | Markotic, Moure, Robertson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alls: I hope you'll join us for what the readers themselves think is a momentous event! Nicole Markotic (from Calgary, Alberta), Erin Moure (from Montreal, Quebec) and Lisa Robertson (originally from Vancouver, BC and now living in Paris) will be together...here in beautiful Buffalo...for one day only! not to be missed! it's huge! etc.etc. W E D N E S D A Y M A R C H 31ST: P A N E L D I S C U S S I O N : "Transcription, Archive, Genesis: Three Women at Work in Poetry", 4pm Poetry Rare Books (SUNY Buffalo) R E A D I N G S : 8pm Rust Belt Books, 202 Allen Street (Buffalo) *************************************************************** Nicole Markotic lives in Calgary, Alberta and she is a founding member and editor of disOrientation, and Secrets from the Orange Couch. Markotic now teaches creative writing, 20th century poetry and poetics, and contemporary literary theory at the University of Calgary. Markotic's chapbook, More Excess, won the prestigious 1998 bp Nichol Chapbook Award. The chapbook can be found as a section in Minotaurs and Other Alphabets. Erin Moure livesin Montreal, Quebec and is one of Canada's most respected poets. She has published at least ten books of poetry, including her most recent O Cidadan and A Frame of the Book (or The Frame of a Book), which was co-published in the U.S. by Sun and Moon Press. Her work has received the Governor General's Award and the Pat Lowther Memorial Award, and she has translated the work of Québec poets Nicole Brossard and Cynthia Girard (with Robert Majzels), French poets Sébastien Smirou and Christophe Tarkos, and the Chilean poet Andrés Ajens. Lisa Robertson lived in Vancouver for twenty-odd years and is now living in the nineteenth arrondisement. Her books of poetry include The Apothecary, XEclogue, Debbie: An Epic, and The Weather. Just out from Clear Cut Press in Fall 2003 is Occasional Works and Seven Walks from the Office for Soft Architecture, a linked series of essays on cities, architecture and ornament. Best, Lori Emerson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:40:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: players MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Condi-Rice playing=20 Dick Nixon playing the piano playing playing playing us all Richard Ben-Veniste must be thinking this is some kind of wicked deja-vu --Jerry Schwartz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:11:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: POG Sunday evening April 4 at Bookman's (Speedway/Wilmot): poets Charles Alexander & Karen Falkenstrom Comments: To: Tenney Nathanson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit POG presents poets Charles Alexander & Karen Falkenstrom Sunday, April 4, 7pm Bookman’s southwest corner of Speedway & Wilmot free & open to the public Charles Alexander, author of books of poetry that include Hopeful Buildings, arc of light / dark matter, Pushing Water 1-6, Four Ninety Eight to Seven, Etudes: D & D, and the just-released, from Singing Horse Press, Near or Random Acts. Works at Chax Press (which will be 20 years old in August 2004), which he founded, making books and creating art in book form. Partnered in life and such art with Cynthia Miller. Teaching includes short classes and workshops at various universities around the nation, and more frequently at the University of Arizona Poetry Center, The Learning Curve, Naropa University, and Pima Community College. Karen Falkenstrom has been a Tucsonan for 15 years, during which time she earned an MFA from the UA Creative Writing program and served as Administrative Director for the Among Other Things... literary arts series, and, later, as Executive Director of the Tucson Poetry Festival. She joined the UA Poetry Center staff in 1992 and, in 1993, co-founded Kore Press with Lisa Bowden. (In 2002, a computer spell check revealed that "Kore" is just "Korea" without an a, and since Karen is herself a "1.5 generation" Korean/Norwegian-American, she's sort of embarrassed she hadn't noticed before.) Currently, she serves as Marketing and Public Relations Director for the Tucson Pima Arts Council. Her articles have appeared frequently in the Tucson Weekly and Downtown Tucsonan, and her poems have appeared in such literary publications as Colorado Review and Prairie Schooner and in her writing group's 10th anniversary anthology The Daybreak & Willingness Club. Karen also plays Irish and Japanese drums. for more: www.gopog.org POG events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council, the Arizona Commission on the Arts, and the National Endowment for the Arts. POG also benefits from the continuing support of The University of Arizona Poetry Center, the Arizona Quarterly, Chax Press, and The University of Arizona Department of English. We also thank the following 2003-2004 POG donors: Patrons Liisa Phillips, Austin Publicover, and Jesse & Wendy Roberts; Sponsors Michael Gessner, Maggie Golston, Steve Romaniello, and Frances Sjoberg. for further information contact POG: 615-7803; mailto:pog@gopog.org; www.gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:55:33 -0700 Reply-To: Laura.Wright@colorado.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Laura Wright Organization: University of Colorado Subject: query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been no-mail for months, and will continue to be so after perusing recent archives (many thanks to Anselm, Julie, Joe A., etc. for reasoned defense of poetry and poets) -- but I'm wondering if anyone would send me information on other listservs where poetry events and publications (in North America and beyond) are announced regularly? I miss this information. Please backchannel. Thanks, Laura ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Laura E. Wright Serials Cataloging Dept., Norlin Library (303) 735-3111 "The trouble with your poetry, Frost, is that it has subjects." --Wallace Stevens ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:28:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: ...like invading Mexico... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "Invading Iraq after September 11th, is like invading Mexico after Pearl Harbor." --Richard Clarke, former White House terrorism adviser, said when interviewed by Tim Russert of Meet the Press, Sunday, March 28th, 2004 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:16:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Traffic Subject: CAMS reading at Gallery 16, San Francisco MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Small Press Traffic recommends a reading elsewhere this Friday.... A Reading by Authors Contributing to Elliot Anderson's CAMS Project Yedda Morrison Doug Heise Taylor Brady Mark Ewert Kevin Killian Dodie Bellamy David Buuck Jocelyn Saidenberg Friday, April 2nd at 7 pm Gallery 16 1616 Sixteenth Street Third Floor San Francisco CA 415-626-7495 Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson Executive Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCA 1111 -- 8th Street San Francisco, CA 94107 415.551.9278 http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:31:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Re: CAMS reading at Gallery 16, San Francisco In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I hear that Julia Bloch will also be reading! >Small Press Traffic recommends a reading elsewhere this Friday.... > >A Reading by Authors Contributing to Elliot Anderson's CAMS Project > >Yedda Morrison >Doug Heise >Taylor Brady Mark Ewert >Kevin Killian >Dodie Bellamy >David Buuck >Jocelyn Saidenberg > >Friday, April 2nd at 7 pm >Gallery 16 >1616 Sixteenth Street >Third Floor >San Francisco CA >415-626-7495 > > >Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson >Executive Director >Small Press Traffic >Literary Arts Center at CCA >1111 -- 8th Street >San Francisco, CA 94107 >415.551.9278 >http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:48:40 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cyrill Duneau Subject: Wegen Dir #001 Comments: To: "arisensilently@fastmail.fm" , "burroughsnakedlunch@yahoogroups.com" , "COLLABORICIDE_HASHSHASHINS@yahoogroups.com" , "CYBERMIND@LISTSERV.AOL.COM" , "mayakovsky@yahoogroups.com" , "williamsburroughs2@yahoogroups.com" , Eric Byrne , "Dreamachine@yahoogroups.com" , "underground_arts@yahoogroups.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Don't be shy. Explore, mein Liebster. youth you is knot that you do knot lyouke me. youth you is more that you do knot lyouke ///ahum... E-mayoul; youth you is more that you do knot lyouke readyoung from a computer scream; ///ahum... youth you is more that you do knot have tyoume; youth you is more that the lyoust you is much ///ahum... to long. The lyoust you is knot for me. you do knot belyoueve any lyoust you is for me. ///ahum... How do you resyougn from the lyoust? ///ahum... ///ahum... Talk, talk, talk. you am knot so much a fan of talk. you am sorry. you have ///ahum... never even posted; you was never on the younsyoude. Where do you get off? you ///ahum... have no room for thyous. you am sorry. controls on copyright A. I would like to be in control of the paradox of desire hypocritical, my exit. controls on copyright B. first you must...relax. Turn down the lights. controls on copyright C. Dans le déjà-vu, à plein, à donf. Or don't. urban society he enjoys their absurdity and density and blamed it all on her controls on copyright D. SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK . SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK . SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK . SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK . SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK . SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK . SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK . SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK . SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK SPUTNIK controls on copyright E. - - Don't be shy. Explore. photo credit: Kosovo have happened photo credit: from Iraq early -- regardless photo credit: Zapatero had been saying that this · Page perso: Pas de mention d'une page perso · Lien préféré: Pas de mention d'un lien favori Anti-junk mailfilters, IP blocking, blacklists, other boycott tools to keep the net useful for everyone Don't be shy. Explore. P5_TA(2003)0196 Community statistics on income and living conditions ***II Common position adopted by the Council with a view to the adoption of a regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council concerning Community statistics on income and living conditions (EU-SILC)(15090/1/2002 - C5- 0077/2003 - 2001/0293(COD)) who is the kid playing with the grown-ups? who is the kid playing with the grown-ups? who is the kid playing with the grown-ups? Anything else? In 1977, bought made accessible: l'aboutissement du nihilisme global commencé avec la Révolution Jacobine In 1996, as a taxpayer was to clean up accident victims, home death, people who had commit suicide, even murder victims sometimes. Most of the bodies were fresh but some had probably been sitting there for a while. In 2004, downloaded the names of 13 Bosnian Serb towns strangerly at a corner, waiting for the time-light to change Wegen Dir. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:55:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Anastasios Kozaitis <anastasios@LOSTBAKLAVA.COM> Subject: The Birth of the Meta-Protest Rally? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/28/magazine/28ENCOUNTER.html?ex=1081668709&ei=1&en=380e2d8649d06004 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:37:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM> Subject: sonnet in the modern manner MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII sonnet in the modern manner my mother appears. she's thirty, we're talking she tells me my father is going to have chemotherapy 'as a preventive measure.' i say this is non- sense, there's nothing wrong with him, he's 90, he doesn't need anything, it's too crippling. we're arguing like crazy, i'm crying. he's right behind you, she says, i turn, he's napping lightly on the couch. i'm almost hysterical now. it worked for me, she says. she's dead, the phone rings. the homeopathic chinese herbs for the cat will cost forty cents per pill, eighty cents a day. i don't believe in homeopathy. i've got enough trouble. there are nazis after me, mutilated bodies. as jesus christ, i would give my right hand to save all of mankind. i would give my right hand as well and my other limbs. i would permit photography of the BLOODY STUMP. as jesus christ i would absolutely do this. letters may be trans- posed, substituted, enumerated, shifted, markov-chained, filtered, written or rewritten according to any function. finite differences welcomed. _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:08:22 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: furniture_ press <furniture_press@GRAFFITI.NET> Subject: check baltimore back Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 go to: www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae our craig has not updated the furniturepress.net site. we have two new pamphlets by Kevin Fitzgerald (Baltimore) and Betsy Andrews (NYC). they are very limited to 50. pretty. this weekend in baltimore folks at the CHELA gallery put on this amazing show. they started with solicitations: everyone would send 10 copies of a poem or 10 poems that fit into a series. they packaged each poem in a small plastic bag complete with wrapping and put them on a rack. i was pretty much blown away, pretty much. folks may play into the fact that poetry as commodity is non-existent because there really is no market for poetry; and when poetry is commoditized it has everything to do with best sellers and yr run of the mill generic "I" volumes. but just the playfulness of the idea that you could package poetry, put it on a rack, and sell it to unsuspecting passersby! i fully support the venture, i nearly went bankrupt (you wouldn't believe the steals... m. basinski even participated by contributing ten handwritten poems. thank you, michael). there were also some beautiful prints and mostly conceptual pieces [words on rocks, crumpled bits of paper with 'do not throw away: this is poetry]. really makes you realise that 'there is no money in poetry. but there is no poetry in money.' is that right? it's from [m]emory. scratch the surface. check out the damn site and buy the pamphlets and the chaps! and ambit damnit! i have no room for this shit anymore! oh, trades are very welcome: i'll trade my catalogue for yrs. who's up?! chris -- _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 00:12:28 +0200 Reply-To: magee@uni.lodz.pl Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Kevin Magee <poetry@HYPOBOLOLEMAIOI.COM> Subject: "for Giorgio Agamben" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "The 'unfamiliars' come in a number of kinds of unequal consequence. One pole of the range is occupied by those who reside in _practically_ remote (that is, rarely visited) lands, and are thereby limited in their role to the setting of limits of familiar territory (the _ubi leones_, written down as danger warnings on the outer boundaries of Roman maps). Exchange with such unfamiliars (if it takes place at all) is set aside from the daily routine and from the normal web of interaction--as a function of a _special category_ of people (say, commercial travellers, diplomats or ethnographers), or a _special occasion_ for the rest. Both (territorial and functional) means of instituted separation easily project--indeed, reinforce--the unfamiliarity of the unfamiliars, together with their daily irrelevance. They also guard, though obliquely, the secure homeliness of own territory. Contrary to widespread opinion, the advent of television, this huge and easily accessible peephole through which the unfamiliar ways may be routinely glimpsed, has neither eliminated the institutional separation nor diminished its effectivity. One may say that McLuhan's 'global village' has failed to materialize. The frame of a cinema of TV screen staves off the danger of spillage even more effectively than tourist hotels and fenced-off camping sites; the one-sidedness of communication firmly locks the unfamiliars on the screen as, essentially, incommunicado." (Bauman, Modernity and Ambivalence, 57-58). poetry@hypobololemaioi.com, 31 March 2003: http://amsterdam.nettime.org/Lists-Archives/nettime-l-0303/msg00166.html (Apologies for cross-posting) "The Ambassador from Greece addressed an audience of 75-100 students this morning at Tomsk Polytechnic University, reading from a prepared text in English for the better part of an hour. There was an impromptu aspect to the meeting, given the absence of ceremony. Among quotations from Jose Ortega y Gasset and Hugo von Hofmannsthal, a general European Union policy position, or disposition, was described which included references to the threat of ethnic nationalisms and internal security concerns with respect to terrorism in the post 9-11 world. "Meta-modern" and "postmodern" attributes accompanied the concept of the nation-state as that governing form which finds itself being redefined in the contemporary global economic space. Fragmented, Europe is fragmented, it was emphasized, despite the enormous achievement of monetary stabilization accomplished by the euro which reflects an unprecedented level of coordination among the European nations and their recognition that mutually dependent economies, even when some nations benefit more than others, stand to gain more from regulated competition than from an unregulated market economy. The end of the paper turned to the question of culture and identified the cultural sphere as force for social transformation, reciting a list of oppositions or polarities belonging to European historical experience which ended (the list, not the history itself) in the opposition between capitalism and communism. This last word was spoken very softly, or reluctantly, enunciated from within the perceptual frame of asserting a common culture and history. The prospect of a United States of Europe is far off, it was said, an idea that the European Union was not yet ready for, but an idea as well which must be thought. (Doesn't Bronstein use this phrase in the pamphlet, "Europe and America"?) Que veut le capitale Americain, etc. But that was another war, after or before. A student asked the question, Are you saying that it is the fragmentation of Europe and the lack of a common foreign policy which contributed to the USA's invasion of Iraq? I didn't mention the United States anywhere in this paper, he said, diplomatically. In his response, though, the Marshall Plan was remembered as the rebuilding of Europe necessary for the U.S. as a market for their exports. Mention was also made to the competition between France and Germany, then, now? It wasn't clear. What was clear, to this author, was the statement of need for a united capability for defending mutually dependent economies and their shared cultural histories. To draw any broader conclusions would be more subjective than this brief paraphrase is willing to commit." Note: For Trotsky's use of the phrase, "United States of Europe," see: http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1923/1923-europe.htm "After all, we are living in 1923, and have learned a little from the past.... What is perfectly obvious is that the customs barriers must be thrown down. The peoples of Europe must regard Europe as a field for a unified and increasingly planned economic life." Visiting Lecturer University of Lodz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:02:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Cheryl Pallant <cpallant@MAIL1.VCU.EDU> Subject: Re: check baltimore back MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable speaking of which, did you ever get my check for the work? i've been = checking my mailbox for the new reads. cheryl ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:36:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Allen Bramhall <bramhall52@EARTHLINK.NET> Subject: re for Giorgio Agamben MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kevin Magee's posts aren't announcements, and they don't utilize slander, so I think it's ok to go ahead and read them. not to go into blurbspeak but his work presents a stunningly valid intersection of political and poetic, of theory and action. for furthermores, I find myself anxious to read the texts that he cites. Allen Bramhall ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:59:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: William A Sylvester <sylvester@BUFFALO.EDU> Subject: Rosa Alcala Comments: cc: woodlandpattern@sbcglobal.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII What a neat little rhythmic riff in her "The Translator's Blues"! .... me thinks it strange: nobody here but us history [gam #3 140 E. Concordia, Milwaukee, WI 53212 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:32:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Dodie Bellamy <belladodie@EARTHLINK.NET> Subject: Zippy protest in San Francisco Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >The San Francisco Chronicle has dropped one of their best comic >strips, Zippy the Pinhead. Please let them know that this just >should not be!!! >Zippy, the creation of San Francisco's ex-patriot native son, Bill >Griffith, belongs in the Chronicle. > >Hope you all are well... > >Phoebe > >Read here to find out how you can express your opinion, and please >pass this e-mail on to others unless you really hate propagating >spam of any sort.: > >The "SAVE OUR ZIPPY" SF CHRONICLE RALLY is scheduled for Thursday, APRIL >1st (Zippy's birthday) !!!! > > Beginning at 2- 3PM, people will meet first at the S.F. Mint Building, >NW corner of 5th & Mission Sts., San Francisco. > >There'll be speeches and inspired random behavior (including appearances >by Zippy himself, Ian Shoales, [NPR, Nightline, Salon.com] and Zippy's >creator, BILL GRIFFITH, who will address the throng). The crowd will >then proceed to the Chronicle Building directly across the street. Let >the Chron know you want Zippy back!! (Ding Dongs optional) >PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD. > >Watch the Bay Area's Channel 5 (KPIX-TV) News that night (April 1st) to >see an interview with Bill Griffith and coverage of the rally! > >THANKS and a big Tip O' Th' Pin to all the Pinheads at Laughing Squid >for help in organizing this celebration! > >Zippy fans in Chico CA (SF Chronicle territory) are also upset about >Zippy's removal--here's an article in this week's CHICO NEWS & REVIEW. > >THE SUREST WAY TO BRING ZIPPY BACK IS TO SEND REPEATED EMAILS TO THE >CHRONICLE--(over the next few weeks) > >Yes, The San Francisco Chronicle dropped Zippy from their comics pages >on 3/15/04. (The "last" Zippy Sunday strip will run on 3/21/04) Here's >how to remedy the situation: >Click here to send your protest to the San Francisco Chronicle! >You brought Zippy back two years ago--you can do it again!! >Please: ONLY S.F. Chronicle readers, Bay Area and outlying residents >should register their opinion. >PLEASE INCLUDE THE TOWN WHERE YOU LIVE IN YOUR EMAIL. > >CALL the Chron to protest: >Dick Rogers: 415-777-7870 > >Hundreds of readers have called and sent emails. Keep it up! >The best way to get Zippy restored to the Chron is to KEEP UP THE >PRESSURE. If at first you don't succeed-- send another email-- Make >another call! > >To see a letter written in support of ZIPPY remaining in the Chronicle from >GARRY TRUDEAU, go to: >Zippythepinhead.com/chron.htm > >To see a letter written by R. CRUMB to the Chronicle's Editor (Phil >Bronstein) last time Zippy was dropped, go to: >Zippythepinhead.com/chron.htm > >--- ..-. / -.-. --- ..- .-. ... . / ... ..- -.-. .... / .- / > -... .-.. --- --- -- / .-- .. .-.. .-.. / > ..-. .-.. --- ..- .-. .. ... .... / --- -. / . ...- . -. / > - .... . / -... .-.. .. --. .... - . -.. / > -... .-. .- -. -.-. .... > >Phoebe Gloeckner >P.O. Box 279 >Setauket, NY 11733 >studio: (631) 751-3763 >cell: (631) 839-9736 > >phoebe@ravenblond.com >http:www.ravenblond.com/pgloeckner ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 23:14:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Ken Rumble <rumblek@BELLSOUTH.NET> Subject: Re: Rosa Alcala In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10403302151410.15027-100000@callisto.acsu.bu ffalo.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Indeed -- you know, a man named "de Alcala" is credited in the OED as giving "alfalfa" its name. At 09:59 PM 3/30/2004 -0500, you wrote: >What a neat little rhythmic riff in her "The Translator's Blues"! > > >.... > >me thinks > >it strange: >nobody here > >but us >history > >[gam #3 140 E. Concordia, Milwaukee, WI 53212 > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 00:03:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM> Subject: my panix online friends, a sincere update at Tue Mar 30 23:40:38 EST 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII my panix online friends, a sincere update at Tue Mar 30 23:40:38 EST 2004 catling barrys shino lwood risser jones andrys arnstein jdnicoll tdl jsn rbf lweith isa sronan etm dlin andrewh dac dac franchin jac phredd newm alexis dannyb clerke ixl gendy cmfaltz kwd fizz ixl kfl jay ike rmc sondheim kaonashi dking tool lanceo clerke franchin comeau mbajuk amh bgf shector barrys plumb jared oshima oshima checker plumb hazmat shadows hd-fxsts klh alm sbarber gaillard milburn sterno mpollak nrvs xuanmai pyro plumb aringsta jae ebuda aringsta barrys ja rickb pirmann octopus mpk _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 00:03:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM> Subject: dead c. for mel g. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII dead c. for mel g. i i'm a jew says jesus, you're not. i'm a jew, i'm a jew, i'm a jew. ii christians throw a good ceremony. iii i'm the blood of the lamb, says jesus. look, i can suck my own blood. i can suck my own skin. stop spitting. christianity is a real mess, jesus says. iv a christian, says jesus, would never touch me with her face. the jews are all over me. a christian, says jesus, would never touch me with her arms. the jews are all over me but a christian would cradle me. a christian, says jesus, would never touch me with her lips. sometimes the jews bump me in a crowd because i'm a jew. us jews are always in crowds. we stand on ceremony, jesus says. christians know how to part for company, jews the red sea. jews the dead sea, but a christian, says jesus, would never bump. noisy yes, but never bump, jesus says. _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 00:21:04 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Gabriel Gudding <gmguddi@ILSTU.EDU> Subject: please fact check your poems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I am finding factual errors in poems posted to this listserv. For instance, a tree is not a bud, and Jerome Rothenberg's middle name is not "Pinky." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:55:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: alexander saliby <alex39@MSN.COM> Subject: Fw: Republicans trying to gag nonprofits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All,=20 Sorry to move from the poetic to the political, but this message seems = to me to hit hard at the heart of several organizations interested in = advancing creative efforts in their communities.=20 Alex=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Wes Boyd, MoveOn.org<mailto:moveon-help@list.moveon.org>=20 To: alex saliby<mailto:alex39@msn.com>=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:50 PM Subject: Republicans trying to gag nonprofits Dear MoveOn member,=20 Are you involved in a local or national non-profit or public interest = organization? As a leader or board director or member? Please read this = message carefully, because your organization could be facing a serious = threat.=20 The Republican National Committee is pressing the Federal Election = Commission ("FEC") to issue new rules that would cripple groups that = dare to communicate with the public in any way critical of President = Bush or members of Congress. Incredibly, the FEC has just issued -- for = public comment -- proposed rules that would do just that. Any kind of = non-profit -- conservative, progressive, labor, religious, secular, = social service, charitable, educational, civic participation, = issue-oriented, large, and small -- could be affected by these rules.=20 By the way, one thing FEC's proposed rules do not affect is the = donations you may have made in the past or may make now to MoveOn.org or = to the MoveOn.org Voter Fund. They are aimed at activist non-profit = groups, not donors.=20 Operatives in Washington are displaying a terrifying disregard for the = values of free speech and openness which underlie our democracy. = Essentially, they are willing to pay any price to stop criticism of Bush = administration policy.=20 We've attached materials below to help you make a public comment to the = FEC before the comment period ends on APRIL 9th. Your comment could be = very important, because normally the FEC doesn't get much public = feedback.=20 Public comments to the FEC are encouraged by email at=20 = politicalcommitteestatus@fec.gov<mailto:politicalcommitteestatus@fec.gov>= =20 Comments should be addressed to Ms. Mai T. Dinh, Acting Assistant = General Counsel, and must include the full name, electronic mail = address, and postal service address of the commenter.=20 More details can be found at:=20 = http://www.fec.gov/press/press2004/20040312rulemaking.html<http://www.fec= gov/press/press2004/20040312rulemaking.html>=20 We'd love to see a copy of your public comment. Please email us a copy = at FECcomment@moveon.org.=20 Whether or not you're with a non-profit, we also suggest you ask your = representatives to write a letter to the FEC opposing the rule change.=20 Some key points:=20 - Campaign finance reform was not meant to gag public interest = organizations. - Political operatives are trying to silence opposition to Bush policy. - The Federal Election Commission has no legal right to treat non-profit = interest groups as political committees. Congress and the courts have = specifically considered and rejected such regulation.=20 You can reach your representatives at:=20 Senator Patty Murray Phone: 202-224-2621 Senator Maria Cantwell Phone: 202-224-3441 Congressman Doc Hastings Phone: 202-225-5816 Please let us know you're calling, at:=20 = http://www.moveon.org/callmade.html?id=3D2541-3521320-bY8OFU_JEDBrvKWCgFf= rpQ<http://www.moveon.org/callmade.html?id=3D2541-3521320-bY8OFU_JEDBrvKW= CgFfrpQ>=20 In a non-election year, this kind of administrative overreach would = never find support. It goes far beyond any existing law or precedent. It = is a serious threat to the fundamental checks and balances in our = system. But because of an unholy alliance between a few campaign reform = groups and GOP partisans, this rule change could actually happen if we = don't act now.=20 I've attached more details below, prepared by our attorneys and by the = FEC Working Group -- a group of more than 500 respected non-profit = organizations.=20 If you run a non-profit, don't assume this change doesn't apply to you. = First check out the EXAMPLES OF SPECIFIC CONSEQUENCES FOR NONPROFIT = GROUPS section below. It's outrageous.=20 Thanks for all you do,=20 Sincerely, --Wes Boyd MoveOn.org March 30th, 2004 ________________ EXAMPLES OF SPECIFIC CONSEQUENCES FOR NONPROFIT GROUPS=20 Under the proposed rules, nonprofit organizations that advocate for = cancer research, gun and abortion restrictions or rights, fiscal = discipline, tax reform, poverty issues, immigration reform, the = environment, or civil rights or liberties - all these organizations = could be transformed into political committees if they criticize or = commend members of Congress or the President based on their official = actions or policy positions.=20 Such changes would cripple the ability of groups to raise and spend = funds in pursuit of their mission and could be so ruinous that = organizations would be forced to back away from meaningful conversations = about public policies that affect millions of Americans.=20 If the proposed rules were adopted, the following organizations would be = treated as federal political committees and therefore could not receive = grants from any corporation, even an incorporated nonprofit foundation, = from any union, or from any individual in excess of $5,000 per year:=20 - A 501(c)(4) gun rights organization that spends $50,000 on ads at any = time during this election year criticizing any legislator, who also = happens to be a federal candidate, for his or her position on gun = control measures.=20 - A "good government" organization [=A7501(c)(3)] that spends more than = $50,000 to research and publish a report criticizing several members of = the House of Representatives for taking an all-expense trip to the = Bahamas as guests of the hotel industry.=20 - A fund [=A7527] created by a tax reform organization to provide = information to the public regarding federal candidates' voting records = on budget issues.=20 - A civil rights organization [=A7501(c)(3) or =A7501(c)(4)] that spends = more than $50,000 to conduct non-partisan voter registration activities = in Hispanic and African-American communities after July 5, 2004.=20 - An organization devoted to the environment that spends more than = $50,000 on communications opposing oil drilling in the Arctic and = identifying specific Members of Congress as supporters of the = legislation, if those Members are running for re-election.=20 - A civic organization [=A7501(c)(6)] that spends $50,000 during 2004 to = send letters to all registered voters in the community urging them to = vote on November 2, 2004 because "it is your civic duty."=20 Other potential ramifications include the following situations:=20 - A religious organization that publishes an election-year legislative = report card covering all members of Congress on a broad range of issues = would be unable to accept more than $5,000 from any individual donor if = the report indicated whether specific votes were good or bad.=20 - A 501(c)(3) organization that primarily encourages voter registration = and voting among young people will be required to re-create itself as a = federal PAC.=20 - A 501(c)(4) pro-life group that accepts contributions from local = businesses would break the law by using its general funds to pay for any = communications critical of an incumbent Senator's position on abortion = rights after the Senator had officially declared himself for reelection = more than a year before the next election.=20 - A 501(c)(3) civil rights group that has been designated as a political = committee can no longer hold its annual fundraiser at a = corporate-donated facility, and it must refuse donations or grants from = donors that have already given $5,000 for that year.=20 BRIEFING ON THE PROPOSED RULE CHANGES=20 Under federal campaign finance laws, federal "political committees" must = register and file reports with the FEC and can accept contributions only = from individual persons (and other federal committees), and only up to = $5,000 per year from any one donor ("hard money"). The FEC is now = proposing to redefine "political committee" to include any group that:=20 1. Spends more than $1,000 this year on nonpartisan voter registration = or get out the vote activity or on any ad, mailing or phone bank that = "promotes, supports, attacks or opposes" any federal candidate; and=20 2. Supposedly has a "major purpose" of election of a federal candidate = as shown by:=20 (a) Saying anything in its press releases, materials, website, etc. that = might lead regulators to conclude that the group's "major purpose" is to = influence the election of any federal candidate; or=20 (b) Spending more than $50,000 this year or in any of the last 4 years = for any nonpartisan voter registration or get out the vote program, or = on any public communication that "promotes, supports, attacks or = opposes" any federal candidate.=20 What's more, any group that gets turned into a federal "political = committee" under these new rules has to shut down all its communications = critical of President Bush (or any other federal candidate) until it = sets up "federal" and "non-federal" accounts; and raises enough hard = money contributions to "repay" the federal account for the amounts spent = on all those communications since the beginning of 2003.=20 These proposed rules would apply to all types of groups: 501(c)(3) = charitable organizations, 501(c)(4) advocacy organizations, labor = unions, trade associations and non-federal political committees and = organizations (so-called "527" groups, as well as state PACs, local = political clubs, etc.).=20 The new rules, including those that apply to voter engagement, cover all = types of communications -- not just broadcast TV or radio ads -- but = messages in any form, such as print ads, mailings, phone banks, email = alerts like this one, websites, leaflets, speeches, posters, tabling, = even knocking on doors.=20 The FEC will hold a public hearing on April 14 & 15. Written comments = are due by April 5 if the group wants to testify at that hearing; = otherwise, by April 9. The FEC plans to make its final decision on these = proposed rules by mid-May and they could go into effect as early as = July, right in the middle of the election year, potentially retroactive = to January 2003.=20 It's clear that these rules would immediately silence thousands of = groups, of all types, who have raised questions and criticisms of any = kind about the Bush Administration, its record and its policies.=20 SOME TALKING POINTS=20 - The FEC should not change the rules for nonprofit advocacy in the = middle of an election year, especially in ways that Congress already = considered and rejected. Implementing these changes now would go far = beyond what Congress decided and the Supreme Court upheld.=20 - These rules would shut down the legitimate activities of nonprofit = organizations of all kinds that the FEC has no authority at all to = regulate.=20 - Nothing in the McCain-Feingold campaign reform law or the Supreme = Court's decision upholding it provides any basis for these rules. That = law is only about banning federal candidates from using unregulated = contributions ("soft money"), and banning political parties from doing = so, because of their close relationship to those candidates. It's clear = that, with one exception relating to running broadcast ads close to an = election, the new law wasn't supposed to change what independent = nonprofit interest groups can do, including political organizations = (527's) that have never before been subject to regulation by the FEC.=20 - The FEC can't fix the problems with these proposed rules just by = imposing new burdens on section 527 groups. They do important issue = education and advocacy as well as voter mobilization. And Congress = clearly decided to require those groups to fully and publicly disclose = their finances, through the IRS and state agencies, not to restrict = their independent activities and speech. The FEC has no authority to go = further.=20 - In the McConnell opinion upholding McCain-Feingold, the U.S. Supreme = Court clearly stated that the law's limits on unregulated corporate, = union and large individual contributions apply to political parties and = not interest groups. Congress specifically considered regulating 527 = organization three times in the last several years - twice through the = Internal Revenue Code and once during the BCRA debate - and did not = subject them to McCain-Feingold.=20 - The FEC should not, in a few weeks, tear up the fabric of tax-exempt = law that has existed for decades and under which thousands of nonprofit = groups have structured their activities and their governance. The = Internal Revenue Code already prohibits 501(c)(3) charities from = intervening in political candidate campaigns, and IRS rules for other = 501(c) groups prohibit them from ever having a primary purpose to = influence any candidate elections -- federal, state, or local.=20 - As an example of how seriously the new FEC rules contradict the IRS = political and lobbying rules for nonprofits, consider this: Under the = 1976 public charity lobbying law, a 501(c)(3) group with a $1.5 million = annual budget can spend $56,250 on grassroots lobbying, including = criticism of a federal incumbent candidate in the course of lobbying on = a specific bill. That same action under the new FEC rules would cause = the charity to be regulated as a federal political committee, with = devastating impact on its finances and perhaps even loss of its = tax-exempt status.=20 - The chilling effect of the proposed rules on free speech cannot be = overstated. Merely expressing an opinion about an officeholder's = policies could turn a nonprofit group OVERNIGHT into a federally = regulated political committee with crippling fund-raising restrictions.=20 - Under the most draconian proposal, the FEC would "look back" at a = nonprofit group's activities over the past four years - before = McCain-Feingold was ever passed and the FEC ever proposed these rules - = to determine whether a group's activities qualify it as a federal = political committee. If so, the FEC would require a group to raise hard = money to repay prior expenses that are now subject to the new rules. = Further work would be halted until debts to the "old" organization were = repaid. This rule would jeopardize the survival of many groups.=20 - The 4 year "look back" rule would cause a nonprofit group that = criticized or praised the policies of Bush, Cheney, McCain, or Gore in = 2000, or any Congressional incumbent candidate in 2000 or 2002, to be = classified as a political committee now, even though the group has not = done so since then. This severely violates our constitutional guarantees = of due process.=20 - These changes would impoverish political debate and could act as a de = facto "gag rule" on public policy advocacy. They would insulate public = officials from substantive criticism for their positions on policy = issues. They would actually diminish civic participation in government = rather than strengthen it. This would be exactly the opposite result = intended by most supporters of campaign finance reform.=20 - The FEC's proposed rule changes would dramatically impair vigorous = debate about important national issues. It would hurt nonprofit groups = across the political spectrum and restrict First Amendment freedoms in = ways that are unhealthy for our democracy.=20 - Any kind of nonprofit -- conservative, liberal, labor, religious, = secular, social service, charitable, educational, civic participation, = issue-oriented, large, and small -- could be affected by these rules. A = vast number would be essentially silenced on the issues that define = them, whether they are organized as 501(c)(3), 501(c)(4), or 527 = organizations.=20 - Already, more than five hundred nonprofit organizations - including = many that supported McCain-Feingold like ourselves - have voiced their = opposition to the FEC's efforts to restrict advocacy in the name of = campaign finance reform.=20 FOR MORE INFORMATION=20 Resources on FEC Proposed Rule Changes Threatening Nonprofit Advocacy FEC Working Group http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oId=3D14670<http://www.pfaw= org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oId=3D14670>=20 From two prominent reform organizations:=20 Soft Money and the FEC Common Cause http://www.commoncause.org/news/default.cfm?ArtID=3D282<http://www.common= cause.org/news/default.cfm?ArtID=3D282>=20 Public Campaign Statement regarding FEC Draft Advisory Opinion 2003-37 Public Campaign http://www.publiccampaign.org/pressroom/pressreleases/release2004/stateme= nt02-17-04.htm<http://www.publiccampaign.org/pressroom/pressreleases/rele= ase2004/statement02-17-04.htm>=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Subscription Management: This is a message from MoveOn.org. To remove yourself (alex saliby) from = this list, please visit our subscription management page at: http://moveon.org/s?i=3D2541-3521320-bY8OFU_JEDBrvKWCgFfrpQ<http://moveon= org/s?i=3D2541-3521320-bY8OFU_JEDBrvKWCgFfrpQ> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 02:56:36 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Harry Nudel <nudel-soho@MINDSPRING.COM> Subject: Spring... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 3:00 rain sz go back to sleep.. 3:00..03/31/04...drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 03:01:30 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Harry Nudel <nudel-soho@MINDSPRING.COM> Subject: Spring... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Po' tosses Pome divides ultra deep field of nite lie down in dark wake up in lite 3:00 on the C note...03/31/04...drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:14:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" <editor@BOOGCITY.COM> Subject: Boog City 15 Now Available Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Please forward --------------- Boog City 15, April 2004 Now Available featuring: --Photographer Nicolaus Czarnecki presents portraits from the New York City March for the Global Day of Action. New York state Green Party co-chair Ian S. Wilder provides the accompanying text. --Incoming East Village Editor Paulette Powell previews Butch McCloud, a live-action lesbian musical comic book serial theatrical performance. --Nancy Seewald's Eating Well on a Lousy But Steady Income on the restauran= t Ginger --Music editor Jon Berger on piano man Kenny Davidsen, redjacket's new EP, and the vaudeville roots of "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" --Small press editor Jane Sprague on Noah Eli Gordon's Braincase Press --Lo-Fi Sci-Fi Tale #16, a comic from Jeffrey Lewis --Cy Press editor Dana Ward on watching a ballgame in his hometown of Cincinnati at the Great American Ballpark Our Printed Matter section, edited by Joanna Sondheim, featuring reviews by= : --Jill Magi on Betsy Andrews' She-Devil (Sardines Press) --Alexander Samsky on George Bowering's Baseball: A Poem in the Magic Numbe= r 9 (Coach House Books) --Solvey Schou on Mark Andersen and Mark Jenkins' Dance of Days (Akashic Books), which maps out more than 20 years of Washington D.C.=B9s independent punk and hardcore scene. Our Poetry section, edited one last time by the incomparable Stephanie Youn= g (before she moves on to Bay Area projects), features poems from: --Michael Farrell --Rosemary Griggs --Michael Vernon And yours truly selected baseball poetry from: --David-Baptiste Chirot --Joel Lewis --Ryan Murphy --Shin Yu Pai --Anne Waldman Our graphics editor Brenda Iijima brings us art from --Daisy Hulme --Alan Sondheim --and the April installment of the NYC Poetry Calendar, now under Boog management. The calendar lists every reader at every reading in the five boroughs, thanks to the assistance of Jackie Sheeler of www.poetz.com, who generously shared her information with us, and Bob Holman and the Bowery Poetry Club for sponsoring it. And huge kudos go out to Keija Parssin for compiling the data for the calendar. Please patronize our advertisers: Bowery Poetry Club * www.bowerypoetry.com Butch McCloud * www.butchmccloud.com The Domestics * www.thedomestics.com Free Arts * www.freearts.org The Poetry Project * www.poetryproject.com Poets for Peace * www.poetsagainstthewar.org Jackie Sheeler * www.poetz.com You can pick up Boog City for free at the following locations: East Village Acme alt.coffee Angelika Theater Anthology Film Archives Bluestockings Bowery Poetry Club Cafe Pick Me Up CBGB's CB's 313 Gallery Cedar Tavern C-Note Continental Lakeside Lounge Life Cafe The Living Room Mission Cafe Nuyorican Poets Cafe The Pink Pony Religious Sex Shakespeare & Co. St. Mark's Books St. Mark's Church Teany Tonic Tower Video Other parts of Manhattan ACA Galleries Here Hotel Chelsea Poets House Revolution Books in Williamsburg Bliss Cafe Clovis Press Earwax Sideshow Gallery Spoonbill & Sugartown Supercore Cafe --=20 David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcity.blog-city.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:39:02 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Maria Damon <damon001@UMN.EDU> Subject: Re: Zippy protest in San Francisco In-Reply-To: <p05210600bc8fec0d7f19@[172.16.1.10]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" why oh why has zippy been dropped? i hope it's not bush-related... At 7:32 PM -0800 3/30/04, Dodie Bellamy wrote: >>The San Francisco Chronicle has dropped one of their best comic >>strips, Zippy the Pinhead. Please let them know that this just >>should not be!!! >>Zippy, the creation of San Francisco's ex-patriot native son, Bill >>Griffith, belongs in the Chronicle. >> >>Hope you all are well... >> >>Phoebe >> >>Read here to find out how you can express your opinion, and please >>pass this e-mail on to others unless you really hate propagating >>spam of any sort.: >> >>The "SAVE OUR ZIPPY" SF CHRONICLE RALLY is scheduled for Thursday, APRIL >>1st (Zippy's birthday) !!!! >> >> Beginning at 2- 3PM, people will meet first at the S.F. Mint Building, >>NW corner of 5th & Mission Sts., San Francisco. >> >>There'll be speeches and inspired random behavior (including appearances >>by Zippy himself, Ian Shoales, [NPR, Nightline, Salon.com] and Zippy's >>creator, BILL GRIFFITH, who will address the throng). The crowd will >>then proceed to the Chronicle Building directly across the street. Let >>the Chron know you want Zippy back!! (Ding Dongs optional) >>PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD. >> >>Watch the Bay Area's Channel 5 (KPIX-TV) News that night (April 1st) to >>see an interview with Bill Griffith and coverage of the rally! >> >>THANKS and a big Tip O' Th' Pin to all the Pinheads at Laughing Squid >>for help in organizing this celebration! >> >>Zippy fans in Chico CA (SF Chronicle territory) are also upset about >>Zippy's removal--here's an article in this week's CHICO NEWS & REVIEW. >> >>THE SUREST WAY TO BRING ZIPPY BACK IS TO SEND REPEATED EMAILS TO THE >>CHRONICLE--(over the next few weeks) >> >>Yes, The San Francisco Chronicle dropped Zippy from their comics pages >>on 3/15/04. (The "last" Zippy Sunday strip will run on 3/21/04) Here's >>how to remedy the situation: >>Click here to send your protest to the San Francisco Chronicle! >>You brought Zippy back two years ago--you can do it again!! >>Please: ONLY S.F. Chronicle readers, Bay Area and outlying residents >>should register their opinion. >>PLEASE INCLUDE THE TOWN WHERE YOU LIVE IN YOUR EMAIL. >> >>CALL the Chron to protest: >>Dick Rogers: 415-777-7870 >> >>Hundreds of readers have called and sent emails. Keep it up! >>The best way to get Zippy restored to the Chron is to KEEP UP THE >>PRESSURE. If at first you don't succeed-- send another email-- Make >>another call! >> >>To see a letter written in support of ZIPPY remaining in the Chronicle from >>GARRY TRUDEAU, go to: >>Zippythepinhead.com/chron.htm >> >>To see a letter written by R. CRUMB to the Chronicle's Editor (Phil >>Bronstein) last time Zippy was dropped, go to: >>Zippythepinhead.com/chron.htm >> >>--- ..-. / -.-. --- ..- .-. ... . / ... ..- -.-. .... / .- / >>-... .-.. --- --- -- / .-- .. .-.. .-.. / >>..-. .-.. --- ..- .-. .. ... .... / --- -. / . ...- . -. / >>- .... . / -... .-.. .. --. .... - . -.. / >>-... .-. .- -. -.-. .... >> >>Phoebe Gloeckner >>P.O. Box 279 >>Setauket, NY 11733 >>studio: (631) 751-3763 >>cell: (631) 839-9736 >> >>phoebe@ravenblond.com >>http:www.ravenblond.com/pgloeckner -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:57:30 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Ron <ron.silliman@VERIZON.NET> Subject: Boston Globe Editorial Comments: cc: WOM-PO <WOM-PO@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GLOBE EDITORIAL Poetry in April 3/31/2004 WILLIAM Carlos Williams wrote that "It is difficult / to get the news from poems / yet men die miserably every day / for lack / of what is found there." This news might be summed up as: How and what one feels matters a great deal. Of course it's almost April, so it's wise to pay taxes on time and to have earned the money being taxed in order to pay the bills and keep the children in sandwiches and shoes. But it's also National Poetry Month, a gimmick with the noble goal of making people stop and smell the metaphors. Now that daylight lingers, it's easier to see that objects and moments have emotional echoes that might suddenly solidify into poetry -- that great warehouse crowded with wars and love, bird-sung dawns and purple dusks, subway rides and people eating fruit. No need to settle for the usual thin televised entertainment. Poetry Month means heady excess. Today in Amherst at the Emily Dickinson Museum, revelers will start a marathon reading of all the poet's work, almost 1,800 poems. The marathon, called "Can I expound the skies" after a line in one of Dickinson's poems, is a first-ever event that will run through Saturday. Tonight the Boston Adult Literacy Fund shows off poetry's literacy-boosting and unsung fund-raising powers with a benefit reading featuring three poets: Martin Espada, Mary Oliver, and Kevin Young. They'll each read some of their own work. Then they'll each read classic poems -- including W.H. Auden's "Stop All the Clocks" and Langston Hughes's "The Negro Speaks of Rivers." The classic works will also be sung by the Jubilee Trio, a local group. The event has convinced existing donors to give money and attracted new donors. Some 5,000 adults are on literacy class waiting lists. This weekend is the fourth annual Boston National Poetry Month Festival, hosted by the Boston Public Library and Northeastern University and organized by the Kaji Aso Studio, an arts institute, and Tapestry of Voices, a local organization dedicated to "weaving poetry into the social fabric at all levels." Second-graders from Saint Margaret's School in Dorchester will kick off the event, reciting their own and famous poets' works. Then 56 poets will follow. So join the party while it's noisy. Go to readings. Buy poetry books. Replace those chain letters and here's-a-good-joke e-mails with here's-the-best-poem-I-ever-read e-mails. Because soon May will come, and poetry will be shuffled off the publicity stage. Fortunately, the drive to keep the public well fed on verse will remain. The organizers of these events dream of next year, of new poetry workshops and contests, of events that run for a week instead of days. This is part of the news from poems: They leave people wanting more. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:34:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA> Subject: Re: please fact check your poems In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20040331001906.024043e0@mail.ilstu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >I am finding factual errors in poems posted to this listserv. For instance, >a tree is not a bud, and Jerome Rothenberg's middle name is not "Pinky." Yeah, I was noticing the same thing. Poland, I said, is not host to the Cannes festival. -- George Bowering Your friendly present participle. 303 Fielden Ave. Port Colborne. ON, L3K 4T5 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:28:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Charles Bernstein <bernstei@BWAY.NET> Subject: Controlling Interests Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable CONTROLLING INTERESTS Charles Bernstein Roof Books new printing: 2004 (first published by Roof in 1980) ISBN: 0-937804-03-7 Price $11.95 Short reading from Controlling Interests, as well as of a new work of=20 poetics, "How Empty Is My Bread Pudding," at the Zinc Bar (90 West Houston,= =20 Manhattan) this Sunday, April 4, at 7pm; copies of Controlling Interests=20 will be available. Allison Cobb will also be reading or giving a talk.=20 Cobb's most recent book is Born Two, new from Chax Press. Order Controlling Interests or Born Two from Rod Smith at Bridge Street=20 Books. Free shipping on orders of more than $20. Free shipping (in US only)= =20 + 10% discount on orders of more than $30. Two ways to order: 1. E-mail=20 order to aerialedge@aol.com with address & be billed with books. Or 2.=20 Credit card-- call 202-965-5200 or e-mail aerialedge@aol.com w/ yr address,= =20 order, card #, & **expiration date** & get receipt with books. Also available at Bridge Street: World on Fire, Content's Dream: Essays=20 1975-1984, With Strings, Republics of Reality: 1975-1985, and My Way:=20 Speeches and Poems. Check out: list of recent arrivals at Bridge Street as recently posted on=20 the list: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=3Dind0403&L=3Dpoetics&D=3D1&O= =3DD&F=3D&S=3D&P=3D100543 Controlling Interests is distributed by, and also available from, SPD. TENNEY NATHANSON on Controlling Interests / 2004: It=92s strange to think of Charles Bernstein=92s insurrectionary Controlling= =20 Interests as a =93classic,=94 but there (here) it is. Written in & on that= =20 paradigmatic moment when =93guacamole has replaced turkey as / the national= =20 dish of most favor=94 =AD 1980, three years after the oil crisis and the=20 slippage of fordism toward the modular elusiveness of post-fordist=20 globalization =AD these texts register and report on the (local & partial)= =20 displacement of the arduous demands of production by the diffuse injunction= =20 to take up a =93lifestyle=94 and consume. But they=92re characterized by a= =20 sometimes savage exuberance that hardly fits the Jamesonian mantra of the=20 pomo lamb lying down complacently with its late-capitalist lion. That=92s=20 evident not only in the sometimes overt accents of critique, but also in=20 the pervasive madcap pleasures of bizarre one-upsmanship: no mode of=20 production could be more modular and mobile than this carnival of madly=20 compressed =93turnover time.=94 Indeed things move fast enough that, if this= =20 were a carousel (why not?), a lot of the fixtures & bric-a-brac of their=20 historical moment would go zooming off toward some asymptotic limit we=20 might call a horizon. What we can dimly discern there is surprising, and=20 makes this hyperbolically comic text also intensely moving: say Benjamin=92s= =20 angel of history, struggling to recover blown shards of the wreckage of=20 history (the sacred) before it=92s too late; or some strange avatar of=20 Thoreau (courtesy of Stanley Cavell) dreaming not that the language might=20 be made whole =AD and make us whole =AD but that it already is (we are) if= we=20 can hear it. Controlling Interests points us toward the communal space=20 articulated in those almost audible words. But it won=92t let us forget that= =20 all of it =AD junk and junket and critical juggernaut, and the words that=20 make and remake them=ADis =93us=94 not =93them.=94 So that: comedy, and= empathy, and=20 hope: arm in arm, neck & neck =AD we=92re off!=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:24:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Kaplan Page Harris <harriskp@TRINITYDC.EDU> Subject: postypographika Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Does anyone know if _Postypographika_ changed its website? It used to be = www.postypographika.com Thanks, Kaplan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:41:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Catherine Daly <cadaly@PACBELL.NET> Subject: CA: [socallitlist] Poetry Events in Ventura and Santa Barbara Counties - April 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Poetry Events in Ventura and Santa Barbara Counties by Phil Taggart Spoken Word Salon:=20 has moved from second to THIRDThursdays at Zoey=92s Caf=E9 open-mic here April 15 - Dolores Dorantes & Jen Hofer =20 Dolores Dorantes, born in C=F3rdoba, Veracruz in 1973. Her most recent books include SexoPUROsexoVELOZ (Cuadernos del filodecaballo, 2002), Para Bernardo: un eco (MUB editoraz, 2000) and Poemas para ni=F1os (Ediciones El Tuc=E1n de Virginia, 1999). She is a founding editor of Editorial Frugal, which counts among its activities publication of the monthly broadside series Hoja Frugal, printed in editions of 4000 and distributed free throughout Mexico. She lives in Ciudad Ju=E1rez, where she works as a freelance writer and editor. =20 =20 =94=85 or consider the possibility that we have plundered here before our compass rose a passable fake scented with the perfume of someone else=92s idea and diesel fumes not buoyant and we porous=20 roots, if given the chance=20 take in context and spores circumstantially dive to dizzy demise or new life, as you like=85=94 from: =93patterns in the white space=94 by Jen Hofer Jen Hofer currently lives in LA. She edited and translated Sin Puertas Visibles: An Anthology of Contemporary Poetry by Mexican Women (University of Pittsburgh Press and Ediciones Sin Nombre, 2003). Her recent books of poetry include slide rule (subpress, 2002), and The 3:15 Experiment (with Lee Ann Brown, Danika Dinsmore, and Bernadette Mayer, The Owl Press, 2001). hosted by Gwendolyn Alley. for more information: contact gwendolynalley@yahoo.com=20 Zoey=92s Caf=E9 (805) 652-1137 El Jardin Courtyard - 451 E. Main St. Ventura, CA or www.zoeyscafe.com. =20 Friday April 23 - 7:30 pm Lewis MacAdams and J.R. Willems at the Ojai Library - 111 East Ojai Avenue =96 Ojai, CA =94=85You are hated -- you can feel it in the TV eye -- by idiots and assholes, slump-shouldered time servers and County weasels; and their hatred is a cool, stiff breeze. You struggle with self-righteousness and you lose. Like your enemies you have your hate to keep you warm; so your wife buys you a little laughing Buddha down in Chinatown to pop on our computer. You are bent over with the pressure of simply being a moron. You are shrinking from the weight of your own gravity. You are becoming your old man as the chain-saws in the background noise start to fan out. First they will school you in your errors. Then they will squash you like a bug=85=94 =20 from =93The River=94 by Lewis MacAdams =20 Lewis MacAdams is a poet, journalist and activist who has lived in Los Angeles since the 1980's. Before that he played a prominent role in New York City's avant-garde poetry scene of the late 60's and 70's. Later, he settled in Bolinas, a community of poets that included Joanne Kyger, Robert Creeley, and Donald Allen. In addition, he served as Director of the Poetry Center at San Francisco State University. He has become the leading defender of the Los Angeles River (the subject of his book The River: Books One and Two), and currently serves as Chairman of its board of directors. Lewis has also authored a study of the Beats, The Birth of the Cool, other books of poetry, many articles, and he has also directed documentary films, including one on Jack Kerouac. =20 J.R. Willems (aka J Rutherford and Jim) has been writing poetry since he was 15. His work has appeared in many places and in four books: 'And She Finishes', 'Amidamerica', 'Opening the Cube', 'the Harlequin Poems'. He edited a poetry journal, Isthmus, during the 70's and a small press. His teachers include Kenneth Rexroth, Daved Meltzer, and Mina Loy. =20 His poetry is informed by years of meditation practice,a radical commitment=20 to political transformation, his work as an Episcopal priest, and his engagement=20 with a serious, chronic illness.=20 =20 host =96 Judy Oberlander =20 =20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:05:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Catherine Daly <cadaly@PACBELL.NET> Subject: Salt at SPD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Special Edition: SPD RECOMMENDS March 30 ORDERS: 1-800-869-7553 ORDERS@SPDBOOKS.ORG FAX: 1-510-524-0852 WWW.SPDBOOKS.ORG Try Electronic Ordering! SPD is on PUBNET (SAN #106-6617) Questions? Contact Brent Cunningham at brent@spdbooks.org ***SPD takes on SALT Publications*** This special SPD Recommends is to announce that SPD has recently taken on SALT PUBLICATIONS. Salt is a literary publisher out of Cambridge, England, with a focus on contemporary American, British, Canadian and Australian writers. By the end of 2004, SPD will stock all of Salt's 100+ titles. But right now a sampling of their best-selling poetry titles, including the 18 listed below, are already available. Since their founding in 1990, SALT has developed an award-winning and prestigious international list, centered on their ground-breaking poetry series. Their books feature full-color covers, biographical material for all authors, and extensive blurbs, all in Salt's distinctive and attractive format. ***Reprints of Recent Classics in American Poetry*** TJANTING by Silliman, Ron $17.95 / PA / pp.212 Salt Publishing, 2002 ISBN: 1876857196 Poetry. Silliman's major long poem published in a new edition and introduced by Barrett Watten, TJANTING abounds in a wealth of cultural reference and explores the strategies and procedures of constructing a reality in language. This classic text will delight readers and provide students of modern American poetry with a key work of the late 20th Century. http://www.pub24X7.com/scripts/rgw.dll/rblive/BOOKS:SingleProduct,this.C reate(1876857196) IMAGINATION VERSES by Moxley, Jennifer $14.95 / PA / pp.116 Salt Publishing, 2003 ISBN: 1876857943 Poetry. A reprint of the classic debut from Jennifer Moxley. "This is a moving & accomplished real book of lyric poetry, the kind of work that comes around very rarely" ---Henry Gould. Moxley's other titles include THE SENSE RECORD AND OTHER POEMS, also available from SPD. http://www.pub24X7.com/scripts/rgw.dll/rblive/BOOKS:SingleProduct,this.C reate(1876857943) RING OF FIRE by Jarnot, Lisa $14.95 / PA / pp.108 Salt Publishing, 2003 ISBN: 1844710076 Poetry. An expanded version of RING OF FIRE, originally published by Zoland Books, Boston, 2001. This full-length collection includes individual lyric poems as well as a previously published chapbook Sea Lyrics and a new collaborative piece "Dumb Duke Death" with illustrations by Jennifer Jarnot. http://www.pub24X7.com/scripts/rgw.dll/rblive/BOOKS:SingleProduct,this.C reate(1844710076) ***New Books by American Poets*** RIFF ON SIX by Reiss, James $16.95 / PA / pp.180 Salt Publishing, 2003 ISBN: 1844710319 Poetry. Reiss's work has appeared in The Atlantic Monthly, The New Yorker and The Paris Review, and is professor of English and Editor of Miami University Press in Oxford, Ohio. This book contains poems from Reiss's first four books, plus rollicking new work from his fifth volume, Slap Me Five, and his sixth collection of laugh-outloud rhyming satirical war verse, A Child's Garden of Evil. As one reviewer said, this book "will command a wide audience." http://www.pub24X7.com/scripts/rgw.dll/rblive/BOOKS:SingleProduct,this.C reate(1844710319) EVOLUTION OF THE BRIDGE by Chernoff, Maxine $15.95 / PA / pp.130 Salt Publishing, 2004 ISBN: 1-844710-38-6 Poetry. EVOLUTION OF THE BRIDGE collects prose poems from Maxine Chernoff's previous volumes written over the past thirty years. It features such classics as "The Last Aurochs," "A Vegetable Emergency," "Utopia TV Store," "New Faces of 1952" and provides the reader with ample evidence that Maxine Chernoff continues to be one of the most significant practitioners of the prose poem in America today. http://www.pub24X7.com/scripts/rgw.dll/rblive/BOOKS:SingleProduct,this.C reate(1844710386) ELEGIES & VACATIONS by Lazer, Hank $15.95 / PA / pp.144 Salt Publishing, 2004 ISBN: 1844710084 Poetry. A unique collection of eleven poems, each quite different from the next, ELEGIES & VACATIONS explores the relationships of the living and the dead. Lazer's poems have an unusual emotional intimacy as he tests the ability of an experimental poetry to address emotionally charged subjects such as the loss of a loved one and the vexing ritual of the family vacation. http://www.pub24X7.com/scripts/rgw.dll/rblive/BOOKS:SingleProduct,this.C reate(1844710084) ***New books by Younger American Poets*** AMERICAN INCIDENT by Henry, Brian $16.95 / PA / pp.130 Salt Publishing, 2004 ISBN: 1-876857-52-8 Composed of a scattered novella ("Patricide in C Minor"), a performance text ("Resistance"), lyric poems, anti-lyrics, verse essays, prose poems and their de-formed counterparts, short fictions, hybrids, parodies, dramatic monologues, and works less amenable to classification, American Incident revels in polyphony and political disquiet. http://www.pub24X7.com/scripts/rgw.dll/rblive/BOOKS:SingleProduct,this.C reate(1876857528) ACCUMULUS by Paquin, Ethan $15.95 / PA / pp.156 Salt Publishing, 2003 ISBN: 1844710157 Poetry. ACCUMULUS gathers together the first two books by young American poet and critic, Ethan Paquin, whose work has been widely published in the US, Australia and England. He is editor of the acclaimed online journal Slope and small American press, Slope Editions, available from SPD. His work has been reviewed in publications including The Times Literary Supplement, PN Review and Jacket. http://www.pub24X7.com/scripts/rgw.dll/rblive/BOOKS:SingleProduct,this.C reate(1844710157) DADADA by Daly, Catherine $18.95 / PA / pp.224 Salt Publishing, 2003 ISBN: 1876857951 Poetry. This trilogy of poetry manuscripts includes poems that bring personal emotion and interest into experimental poetry, and visual and sonic interest into melodramatic narrative / confessional modes. While its main appeal is to play and pleasure, this verse may prove challenging for beginning readers of poetry while it will interest those who generally do not read poetry but read classics, science & technology, experimental fiction, criticism / critical theory, and philosophy. http://www.pub24X7.com/scripts/rgw.dll/rblive/BOOKS:SingleProduct,this.C reate(1876857951) ***More New Books from American Poets*** ANATMAN, PUMPKIN SEED, ALGORITHM by Glazier, Loss Pequeno $14.95 / PA / pp.112 Salt Publishing, 2003 ISBN: 1-84471-001-7 Poetry. ANATMAN, PUMPKIN SEED, ALGORITHM playfully experiments at the edges where languages meet, probing technologies of language - indigenous languages in Spanish colonialism, natural language in programming, and Web vocabulary in everyday speech. Set in the U.S., Mexico, Costa Rica, and Cuba, these poems explore the Americas through the play of its aggregate languages. http://www.pub24X7.com/scripts/rgw.dll/rblive/BOOKS:SingleProduct,this.C reate(1844710017) A VIEW OF BUILDINGS AND WATER by O'Brien, Geoffrey $14.95 / PA / pp.108 Salt Publishing, 2002 ISBN: 1876857552 Poetry. This title collects poems from the last half-decade, ranging from a monologue from an unmade film noir to a sonic sculpture where sense is driven by sound. The narratives take their form from the myth-making of ordinary life, partly found and partly invented out of which we try to forge a connection between what has vanished and what is yet to come. http://www.pub24X7.com/scripts/rgw.dll/rblive/BOOKS:SingleProduct,this.C reate(1876857552) ***New titles from Notable Contemporary British Poets*** CONTRIVANCES by Wilkinson, John $17.95 / PA / pp.192 Salt Publishing, 2003 ISBN: 1876857609 Poetry. THE CONTRIVANCES of this book occupy four sites: `Saccades' gouged out by sexual pain and loss; `Signs of an Intruder' introduces the light of Tuscany to a secure unit; `The Still-Piercing Air' is sited on the banks of the Thames; and `Case in Point' turns about fetish objects often withheld from view. http://www.pub24X7.com/scripts/rgw.dll/rblive/BOOKS:SingleProduct,this.C reate(1876857609) SELECTED POEMS by Monk, Geraldine $19.95 / PA / pp.248 Salt Publishing, 2003 ISBN: 1876857692 Poetry. SELECTED POEMS gathers together most of the longer sequences of poems written between 1979 and 2002 including a complete reprint of her widely acclaimed Interregnum. "Wild, erotic and deeply strange writing. A poetry that reveals the unspeakable weirdness of the everyday" ---Sean Bonney. http://www.pub24X7.com/scripts/rgw.dll/rblive/BOOKS:SingleProduct,this.C reate(1876857692) FALSE MEMORY by Lopez, Tony $14.95 / PA / pp.128 Salt Publishing, 2003 ISBN: 1844710300 Poetry. "These eleven sets of ten linked, unrhymed sonnets, written primarily in alexandrines, are full of startling apercus and unexpected wisdom" ---Marjorie Perloff. "...lovely ... beyond praise" ---Jerome J. McGann. http://www.pub24X7.com/scripts/rgw.dll/rblive/BOOKS:SingleProduct,this.C reate(1844710300) ***Posthumous Douglas Oliver publication*** ARRONDISSEMENTS by Oliver, Douglas $16.95 / PA / pp.172 Salt Publishing, 2003 ISBN: 184471019X Poetry. Edited by Alice Notley. Douglas Oliver's poetry is humorous, beautiful, often naked. It is served by both light-of-day reasonableness and a willful subconscious which knows the dark but can't stop playing with language. The return of his voice in ARRONDISEMENTS will be a pleasure for both old and new readers. http://www.pub24X7.com/scripts/rgw.dll/rblive/BOOKS:SingleProduct,this.C reate(184471019X) ***New books by Notable Contemporary Australian Poets*** TRIO by Tranter, John $16.95 / PA / pp.180 Salt Publishing, 2003 ISBN: 1876857714 Poetry. TRIO is a 162-page omnibus collection of three books of poetry by leading Australian poet John Tranter published over a period of wide-ranging stylistic experiment in the 1970s: Red Movie, his second book, published in 1972, Crying in Early Infancy, a collection of one hundred mainly free-verse sonnets (1977), and Dazed in the Ladies Lounge (1979). http://www.pub24X7.com/scripts/rgw.dll/rblive/BOOKS:SingleProduct,this.C reate(1876857714) VERSARY by Lilley, Kate $13.95 / PA / pp.112 Salt Publishing, 2002 ISBN: 1876857153 Poetry. Soap opera, Country & Western, popular culture in all respects, combined with Renaissance wit, heartbreak and a wicked sense of humour - Lilley's poems abound in warmth and intelligence, drawing the reader into a world of that is seriously felt, both in terms of its tactility and the emotional vicissitudes within this wonderful first collection. http://www.pub24X7.com/scripts/rgw.dll/rblive/BOOKS:SingleProduct,this.C reate(1876857153) ***New book from a Younger Canadian Poet*** ECKHART CARS by Jaeger, Peter $15.95 / PA / pp.140 Salt Publishing, 2004 ISBN: 1844710378 PoetrY. ECHART CARS consists of a series of eighteen related poems. The book is not unlike a collage which samples and modifies other pieces of writing. It specifically draws on historical and contemporary commercial, environmental, religious and medical sources, and orchestrates these sources to bring out unexpected relationships among them. ECKHART CARS consists of a series of related poems. The book is not unlike a collage which samples and modifies other pieces of writing. It specifically draws on historical and contemporary commercial, environmental, religious and medical sources, and orchestrates these sources to bring out unexpected relationships among them. http://www.pub24X7.com/scripts/rgw.dll/rblive/BOOKS:SingleProduct,this.C reate(1844710378) For more information on SALT titles, please stop by http://www.saltpublishing.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:16:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Ram Devineni <rattapallax@YAHOO.COM> Subject: Rattapallax Films MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Friends: I am happy to announce the launch of Rattapallax Films with two documentaries in production. Rattapallax Films is committed to producing poetic films and documentaries with a social dimension to them. More information at http://www.rattapallax.com/films.htm SEPTEMBER 11 (working title) is the story of two extraordinary and horrific events that changed two countries on September 11. It is also about the undocumented victims of both acts. It is also about Martín Espada, an extraordinary poet and human rights advocate, who wrote the definitive poem about 9/11 and his journey to Santiago to participate in the 100th Anniversary of Chile's greatest poet -- the late Pablo Neruda. MAKING HEARD THE BURIED CRY celebrates the power of the spoken-word to bridge societies as it addresses and challenges the global pandemic, HIV/AIDS. Three esteemed and prolific American poets/writers of color; Yusef Komunyakaa, Willie Perdomo, and Thomas Glave, set out to witness the growing crisis in Ghana, West Africa. Their visits with people on the front lines of the epidemic highlight the social/political and human implications of the disease. Their reflections and writings seek to understand a complacency, denial, and stigma that transcend culture, race, and nations. Thank You, Ram Devineni Publishers/Producer ===== Please send future emails to devineni@rattapallax.com for press devineni@dialoguepoetry.org for UN program __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:27:45 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Jukka-Pekka Kervinen <xstream@XPRESSED.ORG> Subject: xStream #19 online Comments: cc: sent@xpressed.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline xStream -- Issue #19 xStream Issue #19 is online, this time in three parts: 1. Regular: Works from 6 poets (Rochelle Hope Mehr, Jim Ryals, Hugh Tribbey, Andrew Lundwall, Mark Young and Brent Bechtel) 2. Autoissue: Poems generated by computer from Issue #19 texts, the whole autoissue is generated in "real-time". 3. Wryting Issue #2: a monthly selection of WRYTING-L listserv works Submissions are welcome, please send to xstream@xpressed.org. Sincerely, Jukka-Pekka Kervinen Editor xStream WWW: http://xstream.xpressed.org email: xstream@xpressed.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:29:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Lewis LaCook <llacook@YAHOO.COM> Subject: blankface and fill Comments: To: Wryting <WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii [input] *************************************************************************** This is as useful as a doll.--Gertrude Stein http://www.lewislacook.com/ Stamen Pistol: http://stamenpistol.blogspot.com/ Poem of the Day: http://www.lewislacook.com/POD Sidereality: http://www.sidereality.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:45:16 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Anslem Berrigan <AnselmBerrigan@AOL.COM> Subject: Segue Reading Series Calendar for Spring! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Segue Reading Series @ Bowery Poetry Club Saturdays, 4:00-6:00 308 Bowery, just north of Houston $5 admission goes to support the readers call 212-614-0505 or visit www.segue.org/calendar,=20 http://bowerypoetry.com/midsection.htm APRIL 3 WILL ALEXANDER and HARRYETTE MULLEN Will Alexander has five forthcoming books: Exo-biology=E2=80=98s Goddess (Ma= nifest=20 Press); The Srilankinan Loxodrome (Canopic Press); Impulse and Nothingness a= nd=20 Alien Weaving (Green Integer); Sunrise and Armaggedon (3 novels, by Spyuten=20 Duyvil). He has refinished a diptych of epics in poetry and his ongoing prac= tice=20 is connecting the body in concert with the conscious, subconscious and the=20 supraconscious mind to the earth.=20 Harryette Mullen is the author of five books of poetry, most recently=20 Sleeping With the Dictionary by Univ. of California Press. Her other books i= nclude=20 Muse and Drudge (Singing Horse), Tree Tall Woman (Energy Earth), Trimmings=20 (Tender Buttons) and S*PeRM**KT (Singing Horse). She currently teaches=20 African-American Literature and Creative Writing at UCLA.=20 APRIL 10 DREW GARDNER and DEBORAH RICHARDS Drew Gardner's latest book is Sugar Pill (Krupskaya). His blog can be found=20 at drewgardner.blogspot.com. His essays and reviews have appeared in the Poe= try=20 Project Newsletter and are forthcoming in Crayon.=20 Deborah Richards was born in London and currently lives in Philadelphia wher= e=20 she is a teacher & performer. She received her MA from Temple U. Her most=20 recent book is Last One Out (Subpress). APRIL 17 PATTIE MCCARTHY and MARK MCMORRIS Pattie McCarthy currently lives in Baltimore and teaches at Towson=20 University. Her first book, bk of (h)rs, was published by Apogee Press in 20= 02. Her=20 second book, Verso, is forthcoming in 2004 (also from Apogee).=20 Mark McMorris is the author of The Blaze of the Poui. He teaches at=20 Georgetown Univ. in Washington, DC.=20 APRIL 24 DURIEL E. HARRIS and TRACEY MCTAGUE Heralded as one of three Chicago poets for the 21st century by WBEZ Chicago=20 Public Radio, poet/performer Duriel E. Harris is a Visiting Scholar in the=20 Dept. of African-American Studies at Univ. of Illinois, Chicago. Recent=20 appearances include concert performances with Douglas Ewart and Inventions a= t Fred=20 Anderson=E2=80=99s Velvet Lounge (Chicago), Diaspora Poetics, a BTC (Black T= ook Collective)=20 =E2=80=9Cassault=E2=80=9D at New Langton Center for the Arts (San Fran.) and= =E2=80=9CJive from the=20 Velvet,=E2=80=9D an experiment in sound. Currently at work on Soma, a sound=20= recording,=20 Harris is Poetry Editor for Obsidian III: Literature in the African Diaspora= .=20 Drag, her first book, was released in 2003 by Elixir Press.=20 Tracey McTague=E2=80=99s writing can be found in Brooklyn Stoop, Lungfull!,=20 canwehaveourballback?, Van Gogh=E2=80=99s Ear, LIT & several other places. S= he is currently at=20 work on The People, a series of poems & visual art constructed through cover= t=20 investigations & guerrilla research into the spirit & life of Fitzroy=20 Amerson=E2=80=94an elusive collector of cultural artifacts last seen in 2002= in East Timor.=20 MAY 1 KAMAU BRATHWAITE and DEIRDRE KOVAC=20 Born in Barbados, Kamau Brathwaite has lived in Ghana, Jamaica, England, and= =20 the United States. A major International poet and post-colonial critic,=20 Brathwaite has written dozens of books and currently teaches at NYU. He was=20= awarded=20 the Neustadt Prize and the Casa de las Americas Prize for Literature. His=20 recent and forthcoming books include Golokwati (Savacou), MR (Magical Realis= m)=20 (Savacou), DS(2) (New Directions) and Born to Slow Horses (Wesleyan).=20 Deirdre Kovac an erstwhile photographer and onetime Detroiter, now lives in=20 Brooklyn and co-edits Big Allis magazine with Melanie Neilson. Her work has=20 appeared in Shiny, 100 Days (Barque), Crayon, and Open Letter. Her first and= =20 possibly antepenultimate book of poems, Mannerism, is intermittently forthco= ming.=20 MAY 8 JOHN KEENE and JACKSON MAC LOW John Keene=E2=80=99s writing recently appeared in the art-text dialogue chap= book=20 Seismosis (Center for Book Arts). He has published poetry, short stories, es= says,=20 and translations in such periodicals as Agni, Hambone, Kenyon Review, New=20 American Writing, Nocturnes, Poets and Poems, and POM3, and in anthologies s= uch as=20 Step into a World and Signale Aus Der Bleecker Street. He teaches fiction,=20 cross-genre writing, and African-American and diasporic writing, at Northwes= tern=20 Univ.=20 Jackson Mac Low was born in 1922. He=E2=80=99s been writing, etc., since the= 1930s.=20 Forthcoming from Granary Books this year is Doings: Performance Works 1955-2= 002 .=20 MAY 15 LEE ANN BROWN and JULIE PATTON Lee Ann Brown is the author of Polyverse (Sun & Moon) and The Sleep That=20 Changed Everything (Wesleyan). She is the founder and editor of Tender Butto= ns=20 Press and an Assistant Professor of English at St. John's Univ.=20 Julie Patton, a New York City-based poet, performer, and visual artist, has=20 exhibited her text-based drawings, installations, and books; and performed h= er=20 "one woman operas" in the United States and abroad. She has served as a gues= t=20 lecturer and professor of poetics at Naropa Univ., the Schule f=C3=BCr Dicht= ung=20 (Vienna, Austria) and is the author of Teething on Type (Rodent Press). Her=20 newest book is forthcoming from Tender Buttons Press.=20 MAY 22 BRENDA COULTAS and THOMAS SAYERS ELLIS Brenda Coultas' book A Handmade Museum is recently out from Coffee House=20 Press to the delight of poets everywhere, in addition to a chapbook entitled= The=20 Bowery Project (Leroy). She will be teaching a poetry workshop at the Poetry= =20 Project at St. Mark's Church this Spring.=20 Thomas Sayers Ellis, an Assistant Professor of English at Case Western=20 Reserve University (Cleveland, Ohio), is a co-founder of The Dark Room Colle= ctive.=20 His work has appeared in The American Poetry Review; Fence; Ploughshares and= =20 elsewhere. In 1993 he co-edited On the Verge: Emerging Poets and Artists and= he=20 is a contributing editor of Callaloo and author of The Good Junk (1996), The= =20 Genuine Negro Hero, (Kent State Univ. Press); and the forthcoming The Maveri= ck=20 Room (Graywolf). He is currently compiling and editing Quotes Community: Not= es=20 for Black Poets. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:11:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: ryan murphy <ryanmurphy17@YAHOO.COM> Subject: exhibits this weekend at Poets House MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I am going to try to get them to spring for a case of Brooklyn Lager or something, and ignore the title--so I encourage anyone with an hour or so on Friday night between six and eight to drop by and say hello.. Some of the presses included in the chapbook exhibit are: braincase, burning deck, o-bleck, tuumba, phylum, black sparrow, meow, pressed wafer, situations, the figures, owl, city lights, broadside, skanky possum, and others! All best, Ryan FRIDAY - 6-8 pm - OPENING RECEPTION Chapbook Exhibit curated by Ryan Murphy Poets House announces THE NEW MILLENNIUM CHAPBOOK EXHIBIT April 2-30, 2004 Opening Reception: Friday, April 2, from 6-8 NEW YORK—Poets House, a nationally recognized literary center and home to one of the most extensive poetry collections in the country, will host the New Millennium Chapbook exhibit, curated by Ryan Murphy. The exhibit will be on display throughout the month of April. New Millennium Chapbook exhibit: While occupying the margins of the literary world, the small press and the chapbook are often vehicles for defining historic poetry communities and shifts in poetics. The exhibit highlights new works published by contemporary small presses that continue this dynamic tradition while exploring the possibilities of the chapbook form. Ryan Murphy, who will curate the exhibit, is the author of On Violet Street, a chapbook of poems published by the Aldrich Museum of Contemporary Art. With Patrick Masterson, he operates A Rest Press in New York City. Opening Celebration: The New Millenium Chapbook Exhibit will open with a free public reception on Friday, April 2, from 6 to 8. For more information about the New Millenium Chapbook Exhibit, please contact Ryan Murphy at ryanmurphy17@yahoo.com, or contact Poets House at 72 Spring Street, Floor 2, New York, NY 10012, (212) 431-7920. ****** SATURDAY 5-7pm - OPENING RECEPTION Annual Poets House Showcase... Featuring almost 2,000 poetry titles published in the US since January, 2003. NEW YORK— Every April the New York-based literary center and poetry archive Poets House takes stock of poetry publishing nationally by mounting a showcase of every single poetry book published in the United States during the previous year. This year the 12th Annual Poets House Showcase presents the 2003 harvest — from Pulitzer Prize-winning titles to handmade chapbooks — beginning Saturday, April 3 (through April 30). "This year, Poets House will assemble a record-breaking number of poetry books," says Lee Briccetti, Executive Director. "The final count is not in yet, but we expect the number of poetry books published in 2003 to exceed 2,000 — more than double the number published a little over a decade ago, when Poets House began its annual Showcase." Poets House actively collects every poetry book published in the United States. Located on Spring Street in Lower Manhattan, the library is the largest and most comprehensive repository of American poetry open to the public. Because all of the volumes gathered in each year’s Showcase are later incorporated into the collection, the library now holds a virtually complete collection of American poetry since 1990, along with other significant holdings. Altogether, the non-profit organization makes available to the public more than 45,000 volumes of poetry, including books, chapbooks, literary journals,, as well as audio and video tapes, CDs, and other forms of electronic media. This year, Tim Kindseth, Showcase Coordinator, worked with close to 600 publishers, including commercial, university and independent presses — from the established independents to tiny micro-presses — on the Showcase, which Poets House launched in 1992 to help poetry readers survey the full range of poetry published during any given year. "Poets House is the only library systematically collecting all of the poetry published in the U.S," says Lee Briccetti. "Our goal is to gather the entire national poetry harvest under one roof." The annual event has become the acknowledged barometer of poetry publishing nationally. In the latest issue of the literary magazine, Fence (Fall/Winter 2003), Rodney Phillips calls the Showcase a "quiet extravaganza," and likens the effect of the exhibit to that created by the "crowded walls of old Florentine museums." This year, concurrent with the Showcase, its pint-sized companion, the Children’s Poetry Book Show, will exhibit hundreds of new poetry books for children in the Poets House Children’s Room. Briccetti says the month-long exhibit impacts the fields of poetry and publishing in a variety of ways. Librarians visit to develop acquisition lists; members of prize committees, to take in the field at a glance; publishers, to scout out new voices; professors, to develop curricula; and poets, critics, journalists, and, of course, poetry readers of all tastes, to browse for their own pleasure and edification. "The Showcase has been tremendously successful in raising awareness about the fantastic abundance and diversity of poetry produced today, and also as a forum for creating community," says Briccetti. "Neither poets nor poetry publishers turn much of a profit," she notes. "So, poetry is always a labor of love, and it is good to remember that we’re all laboring in the same vineyard." The Showcase is closely linked to another important Poets House initiative, the Directory of American Poetry Books. Information about all of the books exhibited in the Showcase is incorporated into the Directory of American Poetry Books, the only comprehensive bibliographic resource on American poetry. It is available on the organization’s web site (www.poetshouse.org), and includes well over 12,000 annotated entries, each with links to online booksellers. The Poets House Showcase, which is funded in part by the National Endowment for the Arts and the New York State Council on the Arts, will be on view from April 3 to April 30, 2004 at 72 Spring Street, 2nd Floor, NYC. Hours are Tuesday through Friday, 11 a.m. to 7 p.m., and Saturday 11 a.m. to 4 p.m. Admission is free. The press and public are also invited to an Opening Reception, on Saturday April 3 from 5 p.m. to 7 p.m. For more information about the 2004 Poets House Showcase, please contact Tim Kindseth at Poets House, 72 Spring Street, 2nd Floor, New York, NY 10012, (212) 431-7920 x19, tim@poetshouse.org. * * * Poets House (www.poetshouse.org) is a 45,000-volume poetry library and a national literary center, located in Soho. It was founded in 1985 by former U.S. Poet Laureate Stanley Kunitz and the late Elizabeth Kray to provide something that they felt was lacking in American cultural life: a place for poetry — library; meeting place; locus of discussion, research, writing and inspiration. Poets House is the only library systematically collecting all of the poetry published in the U.S. (since 1990); maintains the online Directory of American Poetry Books, the only comprehensive bibliographic resource for contemporary American poetry; and produces a range of programming that invites the public to step into the living tradition of poetry. Poets House is located at 72 Spring Street, 2nd Floor, and is open to the public, Tuesday thru Friday 11-7 and Saturday 11-4. Admission is free. # # # --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:46:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: "Walter K. Lew" <Lew@HUMNET.UCLA.EDU> Subject: Olsen's "postmodern" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Can someone please steer me toward a good explication of what Charles Olson's particular sense of "postmodern" was? Thanks. / WKL ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 05:03:41 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: furniture_ press <furniture_press@GRAFFITI.NET> Subject: zine entries Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 hi all: please send me 4-12 poems that fit on 4 1/4" by 5 1/2". i'm starting something akin to pocket poems called PO25centEM. i'm distributing them for free by hand or if you want a bunch send me an sase. anyone can send me work as long as it fits. let's have fun with this one. i want the folks of baltimore to know just how interesting language can be. rich kostelanetz is no. 1, elayna browne sent me some excellent sonnets for no. 2. they're cute as all heck and cheap, a stamp. think punk ethic, DIY, free distribution in teeny weeny sizes that pack a paunch. thanks, all, chris p.s. nudel, i'm waiting for you... -- _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:20:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Robert Corbett <rcorbett@U.WASHINGTON.EDU> Subject: Re: a different thread, for Robert In-Reply-To: <219901c40eab$a80bd240$220110ac@UNLIKELYLAP> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Jonathan, The First also says it's about the Power (in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, for those who have forgotten this thread). I think this statement is made because, since one assumes the First is simply Evil, than what it wants to do is about Evil. But no. The First has a position in the system, a system in which good and bad must balance out (cf. Willow's resurrection of Buffy results in a demon). The First decides then to break the entente cordial by trying to destroy the Slayer and the Watcher. What it is doing is not because it is Evil (though it is), but because it wants Power. The system then is bipolar, but each side is shot through with the desire for power. You might also recall the many moments of the series where the power Buffy has creates distance between her and her friends. Robert -- Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop UW Box: 351237 On Sat, 20 Mar 2004, Jonathan Penton wrote: > Hi Robert, > > I believe Buffy said that to Dawn, at the beginning of the seventh season, > when she was seperated from both of the bloodsucking men she loved. The rest > of the seventh season seemed to be an attempt to prove her wrong. Note that > the series ends with Spike saving the world. Despite the hooplah that was > made about the dessimation of the power of the slayer, the real victory over > evil was won by Spike, who was only able to save the world because of his > willingness to surrender his power and channel the power of another force, > which he could only do after acquiring a soul (a loss of power), > surrendering his own rights to the rights of a team that tried to kill him, > and surrendering all his rights, including his life, to his unconditional > love of Buffy (the greatest loss of power imaginable), and, by extension, > humanity. One needs hardly point out that Anya died in the final exchange > and the powerless Andrew survived. One probably shouldn't point out that the > 21-year-old Buffy was fearless in her rejection of her teachers and mentors > when they became dangerous to her mission and/or her happiness. > > If poets are supposed to be connected to humanity at all, I think a > discussion of Buffy will serve us far better than a discussion of Tanenhaus. > Perhaps we should contrast and compare. > > -- > Jonathan Penton > http://www.unlikelystories.org > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Corbett" <rcorbett@U.WASHINGTON.EDU> > To: <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 11:24 AM > Subject: Re: Slander/Libel... > > > > I agree with Harry on this one (and so does Buffy the Vampire Slayer: > > it's about the power). > > > > Now, could we lose this speculative and adolescent thread and talk of > > something of real interest, like Sam Tanenhaus election as High Priest, oh > > wait, Editor of the NYTBR. I think an email campaign about how the Times > > treats poetry is in order. > > > > Robert > > > > -- > > Robert Corbett, Ph.C. "Given the distance of communication, > > Coordinator of New Programs I hope the words aren't idling on the > > B40D Gerberding map of my fingertips, but igniting the > > Phone: (206) 616-0657 wild acres within the probabilities of > > Fax: (206) 685-3218 spelling" - Rosmarie Waldrop > > UW Box: 351237 > > > > On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, Harry Nudel wrote: > > > > > I think folks lost this thread.. > > > for me it's not about sex > > > > > > or creepiness or what someone > > > sd...30 yrs ago... > > > > > > it's about POWER..and its uses > > > AND what happens when P.O.W.E.R. > > > > > > is threatened.....left/rite/left > > > pretty much the same S.h.i.T.. > > > > > > drn.. > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:21:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Gerald Schwartz <gejs1@ROCHESTER.RR.COM> Subject: Re: zine entries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes! Let's pack a paunch... what's your address? Thanks. Jerry Schwartz > hi all: please send me 4-12 poems that fit on 4 1/4" by 5 1/2". i'm starting something akin to pocket poems called PO25centEM. i'm distributing them for free by hand or if you want a bunch send me an sase. > > anyone can send me work as long as it fits. let's have fun with this one. i want the folks of baltimore to know just how interesting language can be. > > rich kostelanetz is no. 1, elayna browne sent me some excellent sonnets for no. 2. they're cute as all heck and cheap, a stamp. > > think punk ethic, DIY, free distribution in teeny weeny sizes that pack a paunch. > > thanks, all, > > chris > > p.s. nudel, i'm waiting for you... > -- > _______________________________________________ > Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net > Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year! > > Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:21:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA> Subject: Re: Olsen's "postmodern" In-Reply-To: <a0600200abc90de672aa1@[169.232.230.225]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Can someone please steer me toward a good explication of what Charles >Olson's particular sense of "postmodern" was? Thanks. / WKL The Special View of History, by Charles Olson. -- George Bowering Your friendly present participle. 303 Fielden Ave. Port Colborne. ON, L3K 4T5 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:38:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: terra1@SONIC.NET Subject: New Federal Law Overrides Gay Protections In-Reply-To: <a05100301bc90f4c45ba3@[142.58.74.24]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://transdada.blogspot.com/ how much longer are we going to stand by and watch has discrimination is passed into law? http://www.365gay.com/newscon04/03/033104militaryU.htm New Federal Law Overrides Gay Protections by Paul Johnson 365Gay.com Newscenter Washington Bureau Chief Posted: March 31, 2004 5:01 p.m. ET (Washington, D.C.) Legislation passed by the House of Representatives would force universities to suspend civil rights protections or lose government contracts. The bill denies defense-related funding to any university which does not provide access to military recruiters and ROTC programs. Many universities and colleges across the country have barred recruiters from their campuses because the ban on gays in military violates the schools' anti-discrimination policies. The measure, sponsored by Rep. Mike Rogers (R-Alabama) expands on a 1995 law. Under the legislation, passed 343-81, universities would also have to give access to the Central Intelligence Agency and the National Nuclear Security Administration in the Energy Department.It also requires that colleges with ROTC programs submit an annual report to the Secretary of Defense confirming they will continue to support those programs. "[It] might just as well be called the 'Harvard Act' because it squarely addresses the scandal of Harvard University and other schools banishing ROTC and military recruiters from campus while turning around and cashing Uncle Sam's checks for billions of dollars each year," said Rep. Christopher Cox (R-California) chairman of the House Select Committee on Homeland Security and a Harvard graduate. "It's designed to force universities to violate their own policies against discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation," said Rep. Martin Meehan (D-Massachusetts). The bill gives the Secretary of Defense the sole authority to determine if a college is providing equal access. "The secretary," said Rep. James McGovern (D-Massachusetts) "serves as prosecutor, judge and jury without an independent or neutral arbiter." The bill was also criticized by the Human Rights Campaign. "Schools should never be forced to allow discrimination," said HRC President Cheryl Jacques. The legislation still requires approval in the Senate. ©365Gay.com® 2004 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 18:08:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM> Subject: nebula formation and annihilation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII nebula formation and annihilation http://www.asondheim.org/nebula1.png http://www.asondheim.org/nebula2.png http://www.asondheim.org/nebula3.png http://www.asondheim.org/nebula4.png http://www.asondheim.org/nebula5.png http://www.asondheim.org/nebula6.png http://www.asondheim.org/nebula7.png http://www.asondheim.org/nebula8.png during the time of symbol formation until the cold cosmos fractures my work disappears you too __ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:17:09 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Haas Bianchi <saudade@COMCAST.NET> Subject: Charle Bernstein Address In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040331122823.030f12b0@writing.upenn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Can someone backchannel Charle's email address? Raymond L Bianchi Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com chicagopostmodernpoetrycalendar.blogspot.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Charles Bernstein > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 11:28 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Controlling Interests > > > CONTROLLING INTERESTS > > Charles Bernstein > > Roof Books > new printing: 2004 > (first published by Roof in 1980) > ISBN: 0-937804-03-7 > Price $11.95 > > Short reading from Controlling Interests, as well as of a new work of > poetics, "How Empty Is My Bread Pudding," at the Zinc Bar (90 > West Houston, > Manhattan) this Sunday, April 4, at 7pm; copies of Controlling Interests > will be available. Allison Cobb will also be reading or giving a talk. > Cobb's most recent book is Born Two, new from Chax Press. > > Order Controlling Interests or Born Two from Rod Smith at Bridge Street > Books. Free shipping on orders of more than $20. Free shipping > (in US only) > + 10% discount on orders of more than $30. Two ways to order: 1. E-mail > order to aerialedge@aol.com with address & be billed with books. Or 2. > Credit card-- call 202-965-5200 or e-mail aerialedge@aol.com w/ > yr address, > order, card #, & **expiration date** & get receipt with books. > > Also available at Bridge Street: World on Fire, Content's Dream: Essays > 1975-1984, With Strings, Republics of Reality: 1975-1985, and My Way: > Speeches and Poems. > > Check out: list of recent arrivals at Bridge Street as recently posted on > the list: > http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0403&L=poetics&D =1&O=D&F=&S=&P=100543 Controlling Interests is distributed by, and also available from, SPD. TENNEY NATHANSON on Controlling Interests / 2004: It’s strange to think of Charles Bernstein’s insurrectionary Controlling Interests as a “classic,” but there (here) it is. Written in & on that paradigmatic moment when “guacamole has replaced turkey as / the national dish of most favor” ­ 1980, three years after the oil crisis and the slippage of fordism toward the modular elusiveness of post-fordist globalization ­ these texts register and report on the (local & partial) displacement of the arduous demands of production by the diffuse injunction to take up a “lifestyle” and consume. But they’re characterized by a sometimes savage exuberance that hardly fits the Jamesonian mantra of the pomo lamb lying down complacently with its late-capitalist lion. That’s evident not only in the sometimes overt accents of critique, but also in the pervasive madcap pleasures of bizarre one-upsmanship: no mode of production could be more modular and mobile than this carnival of madly compressed “turnover time.” Indeed things move fast enough that, if this were a carousel (why not?), a lot of the fixtures & bric-a-brac of their historical moment would go zooming off toward some asymptotic limit we might call a horizon. What we can dimly discern there is surprising, and makes this hyperbolically comic text also intensely moving: say Benjamin’s angel of history, struggling to recover blown shards of the wreckage of history (the sacred) before it’s too late; or some strange avatar of Thoreau (courtesy of Stanley Cavell) dreaming not that the language might be made whole ­ and make us whole ­ but that it already is (we are) if we can hear it. Controlling Interests points us toward the communal space articulated in those almost audible words. But it won’t let us forget that all of it ­ junk and junket and critical juggernaut, and the words that make and remake them­is “us” not “them.” So that: comedy, and empathy, and hope: arm in arm, neck & neck ­ we’re off! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:05:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: ALDON L NIELSEN <aln10@PSU.EDU> Subject: Re: Olsen's "postmodern" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain best explanations are his own -- much clearer than you might expect -- especially esay to follow in the SELECTED Olsen of years ago, but also available in the more expensive and expansive collected prose ably edited by Ben Friedlander -- Olsen especially good in his early version of the critique of traditional humanism -- On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:46:17 +0000, "Walter K. Lew" wrote: > Can someone please steer me toward a good explication of what Charles > Olson's particular sense of "postmodern" was? Thanks. / WKL > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:02:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> From: Lucas Klein <LKlein@CIPHERJOURNAL.COM> Subject: New Haven Summer Sublet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interested in a summer in New Haven? Rent my apartment while I'm in China. Two-bedroom, fully furnished, including digital cable, high-speed internet, queen-sized bed, sofa-bed, futon, a separate dining room, huge kitchen, and lots of books to browse through. All for the great price of $1000 a month from late May to end of August. Big enough to hold you & your friends (could conceivably sleep up to seven without using the floor). Convenient location near Modern Apizza (one of New Haven's most famous pizzerias), liquor store, gas station, a Chinese fish market, two gourmet grocers, a laundromat, video store, and many restaurants! For more information, call Lucas at 203 676 0629, or email me off-list at LKlein@cipherjournal.com. Lucas ________________________________________ "The great enemy of clear language is insincerity." --George Orwell Lucas Klein LKlein@cipherjournal.com 11 Pearl Street New Haven, CT 06511 ph: 203 676 0629 www.CipherJournal.com