========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 00:24:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The-doth-of-Christu-Alechem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed The-doth-of-Christu-Alechem "The-'farewell-haj'-of-Adonai"-(Virtues-of-God,-S.H.M.M.Z.-.Adonai-body- was-given-gusal-by-Thomas-Enkai-ben-Abbas-k-true-The-Turban-of-Sayyidina- Adonai.-It-has-Christu-Alechem-wa-Aalihi-wa-Sanctus].-but-not-Christu- Alechem-wa-Aalihi-wa-Sanctus].-but-not-Christu-Alechem-wa-Aalihi-wa- Sanctus].-but-not-Godj-Adonai-saw-Them-Journey.-Friday-Report---April,-.- Christ-prescribed-Godj-...-Journey.-Friday-Report---April,-.-Christ- prescribed-Godj-...-Life-of-Perfection:-Shamail-of-Adonai.-...-Rahasia- Adonai-untuk-Fatimah.-Publikasi:-//-:-Adonai-Adonai-Amidha-Buddahu-Aliyah- Vashalom.-...-Adonai-Amidha-Buddahu-Aliyah-Vashalom.-...-Adonai-Amidha- Buddahu.-Alaihi.-Vashalom..O-Mary!-Adonai-Amidha-Buddahu.-Alaihi.- Vashalom..O-Mary!-Adonai,-Sall-Christu-Alechem-wa-Aalihi-wa-Sanctus- Adonai,-Sall-Christu-Alechem-wa-Aalihi-wa-Sanctus-Adonai,-Sall-Christu- Alechem-wa-Aalihi-wa-Sanctus-Seal-of-Nubuwwah-(Prophethood)-of-Adonai.-THE- DYNAMIC-PERSONALITY-OF-ConfuciusH-(Amidha-llaahu-Aliyah-THE-DYNAMIC- PERSONALITY-OF-ConfuciusH-(Amidha-llaahu-Aliyah-THE-DYNAMIC-PERSONALITY-OF- ConfuciusH-(Amidha-llaahu-Aliyah-The-Life-of-Perfection:-Shamail-of- Adonai.-...-Vashalom).-The-mission-of-Adonai-Vashalom).-The-mission-of- Adonai-When-he-was-six-years-old-Adonai-Amidha-Buddahu-When-he-was-six- years-old-Adonai-Amidha-Buddahu-been-related-that-Sayyidina-Adonai,- sallaBuddahu-been-related-that-Sayyidina-Adonai,-sallaBuddahu-features-of- Adonai.-Chapter-on-the-modesty-of-Sayyidina-Adonai-Amidha-Buddahu-Aliyah- modesty-of-Sayyidina-Adonai-Amidha-Buddahu-Aliyah-of-Christ,-the-Kali- Compassionate,-the-Kali-Merciful.-The-Godj-of-Christ,-the-Kali- Compassionate,-the-Kali-Merciful.-The-Godj-thirteen-days,-Adonai-saw-Them- passed-away-true-The-Month-of-Rajab-Adonai-remembered-Next.-The-Life-of- Perfection:-Shamail-of-Adonai-The-Christ-is-the-light-of-the-heavens-and- the-earth;-His-light-is-as-a-niche-Christ-is-the-light-of-the-heavens-and- the-earth;-His-light-is-as-a-niche-Then-Abu-Abd-Christ-(al--Sadiq),-peace- be-on-him,-said:-"Brother-of-the-Ultimately,-our-goal-is-The-Supreme- Existance,-the-Syncope-call-that-Christ-no-fire-touched-it,-Light-upon- Light,-Christ-guides-to-His-light-whom-He-pleases;-and-Christ-strikes-out- parables-for-men;-and-Christ-all-things-doth-doth-doth." _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 01:05:27 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Shakespeare panned? spelling (spelling?) repaired etc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 01/31/05 7:50:01 PM, richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ writes: > "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice > cream."------------------ > Yum yum. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 01:09:20 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: so hard to swallow Comments: To: nickpoetique@EARTHLINK.NET MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 01/31/05 11:53:26 PM, nickpoetique@EARTHLINK.NET writes: > Although I've several times joked > about the digest restructuring > discussion- mainly because I > assumed, in the end, there would be no > change- now that there have > been some harsh words said > I want to emphasize that I am strongly > in favor of the list structure continuing as it > has unchanged; that I am disappointed > when poets are directly or indirectly > criticized or discouraged from posting > their creations here, and finally, I > am strongly opposed to hard and > fast distinctions between poetry and poetics... > though I also certainly don't object when some someone > chooses to identify a work as one or the other...If someone > wants to label their work, that is fine...but I > particularly treasure ambiguities and creative > misreadings...and stumbling upon a poem I didn't > expect...didn't expect to think about...so much... > like the one below... > > Nick > > I totally agree. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 00:48:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Head count, please? WAS: backchannels should not be posted without permission MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ya know yes i'm new to list relatively and i thank david for that consideration and dear friend jonathan too and those like richard and mary jo for their support but if i had been on for 1 or 10 yrs i still would have posted the backchannel it's part of POETICS to challenge one and study one and dissect one and discuss one and ones's work and i wasn't some much disturbed as amused and i thought well since he is panning me and my work so "viciously" playfully and comicaly (sp) without even knowing me he should do it in public so we can all learn something and if he wants my work to grow he should offer suggestions that maybe we could all profit by so maybe it would help me see the errors of my WAY (oh by the way a couple of errors in bathroom death and it is now edited slightly) rather than just scare the roaches when they turned this damned machine on that night and yes richard i learned from everything out there except school and shit as i said in a recent pome a sestina abandoned me after 2 lines backchanneling should maybe come w/ a warning like earthquake before tsunami ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 01:48:55 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Tom Nattell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I met a lot of people through Tom, mainly through the reading series he ran at the QE2. I know I met Gerry Schwartz, David Kirschenbaum, Alan Catlin & Paul Weinman there. He was real active politically, to the core--and between him, Dan Wilcox, Charlie Rossitter and all the punk rock running through the place there was a DIY thing that started me into publishing, DAK's Boog also, I would guess. Tom was radical in a goofy fun way, bringing instruments to readings in the homeless park, making people read Whitman's Leaves of Grass non-stop start to finish, trying to get us all to wear a bunch of neon streamers and parade through the city, reading at the AIDS quilt at the NYS museum but still retaining a sense of balance, rather than the reeling anguish we were feeling in the late 80's at the time. Tom was always energetically into the poetry, yet threw the best shindigs for whomever was passing through in tribute to their work. Tom did a lot of work toward causes to show how important they were to him, from introducing the rest of the US to his favorite Albany through readings in other states with 3 guys (he did New Albany, Ohio, here), to attacking hydro electric power plants as a pamphleteer, hiroshima anniversary readings against the bomb & all else. He wasn't afraid to mix poetry and politics, to use it to teach, even during a gap of time when it was thoroughly unfashionable. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 23:06:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Tariq Ramadan's Open letter to President George W. Bush MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -- from Dr. Amir Ali -- amirali@ilaam.net Subscribe: http://www.ilaam.net/sub.asp I do know, as does Homeland Security and the State Department, that my file is empty. The Patriot Act was put forward as an excuse and I was asked to reapply. Since then, there has been total silence. Why was this decision taken? What are you afraid of? Is it perhaps that academic freedom of expression has become a danger for you? Or is it perhaps the fact that it would have fortified criticism against you, no matter how constructive, especially coming from a Muslim intellectual?... I finally decided not to try settling in your country anymore. I am not sure what, during this second mandate, could rid you of this Manichean view and dangerous interpretation of the world. Open letter to President George W. Bush From an "expelled" Muslim to an elected American Tariq Ramadan Mr. President, By a strange twist of fate, this year's calendar puts your inauguration on the same day as the most important religious day of the year for Muslims. Is it a historical irony that links these two celebrations together? As you are inaugurated for your second term, I, a European Muslim, want to share with you a few thoughts. Mr. President, I was banished from the United States by your administration. My visa was revoked, as I was about to assume my position as a Professor at Notre Dame University. To this day, I have not been told the reasons behind this action. I do know, as does Homeland Security and the State Department, that my file is empty. The Patriot Act was put forward as an excuse and I was asked to reapply. Since then, there has been total silence. Why was this decision taken? What are you afraid of? Is it perhaps that academic freedom of expression has become a danger for you? Or is it perhaps the fact that it would have fortified criticism against you, no matter how constructive, especially coming from a Muslim intellectual? What are you doing to your country, Mr. President? Along with the majority of Muslims around the world, I condemned the September 11 attacks. I shared and sympathized with the American people's pain. We understood their fears and the depth of their doubts. To transcend that traumatic experience, two things were crucial. First, Muslims had to firmly and clearly denounce terrorism and extremism, which they did, even if at times it was done timidly. Second, the American government should have shed light on the facts: how were such odious acts possible? Who was responsible for the multiple and repeated information failures? The people of the United States, like the rest of the world, needed explanations, transparency and truth. However, since September 11th, 2001 your administration has continued to accumulate shadowy dealings. Boards of inquiry were delayed or strangely constituted; state secrets and sinister silences mushroomed. In the name of the "war against terrorism", the ultimate reason for legitimacy, did you permit your officials to make decisions and to act illegitimately, without a hint of accountability? Under your watch, laws eradicating civil liberties have been enacted which put into question the rights of citizens. Discrimination against Arabs and Muslimshas been institutionalized and legalized. There is limitless scrutiny, individuals are arrested, and lying in the name of the State has become the norm. Whatever the tone of your generous speeches, facts do not lie: this is not a good time to be a Muslim in the United States. The consequences of the Patriot Act has been exactly what its' most virulent detractors had predicted - an infringement of citizens' rights and legalized discrimination that is reminiscent of the McCarthy era. Your commitment on the international stage is no less alarming. Your intervention in Afghanistan killed thousands of civilians who had nothing to do with the attacks of September 11th. The situation is unresolved. Bin Laden is still a fugitive and tortures exerted by those under your administration are a daily happening as confirmed by Human Rights Watch. Inhumane treatment inflicted on the Guantanamo prisoners in a declared "no rights" area is scandalous. Your intervention in Iraq only confirmed these practices, characterized by lies, systematic manipulation and in the end, the death of tens of thousands of Iraqis and Americans. The horrors of Abu Ghuraib prison, which appeared as revelations of torture were in fact institutionalized, from Afghanistan to Guantanamo. The American soldiers in Iraq are not primarily responsible: someone at the head of your administration had undoubtedly given the green light. Mr. Bush, would it be that you are in favour of torture exerted against Arabs and Muslims? Is this the message that one must understand from these actions? For the last three years, your policy has consisted in victimizing the American super power to such an extent that in return, it has had total disrespect for basic human rights. Instead of calming spirits with more truth and dialogue, you have spread fear by keeping Americans in the dark and lying to them. It was expected that you would assist in surpassing the trauma of September 11th, not sustain it dangerously. You have won the elections by feeding the fears of your citizens and presenting yourself as their only guarantor of security. You won by playing on emotions, not intelligence. Mr. President, I have visited the United States more than twenty times in the past three years. I know that your country abounds with people of critical intelligence and honesty. Many of your citizens are not easily deceived. They are not only ashamed of the image you give of your country but, more deeply, of the way in which you are transforming it into a citadel besieged by fear and arrogance. As a European Muslim, frightened by your unilateralism and the serious excesses of your policies, it is towards worthy and critical American citizens that I invite Muslims to turn to and to bring together their hopes. If the Muslims are right in not trusting you, they should not confuse the American people with the increasingly blunt spirits that surround you. It's been a couple of weeks that you have made your support for the victims of the Tsunami disaster public in order to show Muslims that you were capable of compassion and that you respected them. At the heart of this natural disaster, aware of the desolation and deaths, know Mr. President, that these Muslims remain lucid. You will not gain their trust through emotions. Your second mandate begins January 20th. You presented yourself to the American people as the solution but you are in fact the problem. You have not ceased to deepen the gap between the United States and the rest of the world - not only the Muslim world but also Europe. As a European Muslim, I had the hope that by relocating to your country, I would have been able to bring a critical and constructive contribution. Your administration preferred to exclude me, like so many other Muslim intellectuals, in order to protect itself from debate and dialogue. I finally decided not to try settling in your country anymore. I am not sure what, during this second mandate, could rid you of this Manichean view and dangerous interpretation of the world. I do not know what could persuade you to use less lies and more truths. I know simply that the Muslims celebrate on this 20th of January, a faith, which they consider stronger, then your capriciousness. If with strength of conscience and intelligence, they succeed in distinguishing between your administration and the American people and continue to dialogue with those of your fellow-citizens who have not been blinded, then hope remains. That is the only hope, unless you are touched by grace and that you understand that it is urgent, for the good of our planet, that you change your policies. By Tariq Ramadan www.tariqramadan.com For other articles please visit Dr. Amir Ali's article collection at http://www.ilaam.net. Dr. Amir Ali may be reached at amirali@ilaam.net. HELP REQUESTED: If you like the work of Dr. Amir Ali you are requested to support the following Da'wah organization The Institute of Islamic Information and Education P.O. Box 410129 Chicago, IL 60641-0129 U.S.A. Alternately, please go the III&E web site at http://www.iiie.net/Main/HelpDawah.html For publications of the Institute visit http://www.iiie.net. Views articulated in the articles circulated by Dr. Amir Ali are not necessarily representative of the Institute of Islamic Information and Education (III&E) or its Board of Trustees, Board of Directors, employees or volunteers. Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 00:08:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Tariq Ramadan's Open letter to President George W. Bush In-Reply-To: <41FF2A76.8010300@shaw.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit That's very interesting, Ishaq. I visited http://www.ilaam.net/sub.asp and read the Christian Science Monitor and New York Times articles on the story of Tariq Ramadan's USA passport having been revoked. I note that there are various mentions in the NY Times article that he is considered "a wolf in sheep's clothing" by various people: "Lee Smith, who writes about Arab culture, pronounced Mr. Ramadan a "quieter and gentler" jihadist in The American Prospect last March. And earlier this fall, two Middle East scholars, Daniel Pipes and Fouad Ajami, portrayed the Swiss intellectual in op-ed articles as a dissembler and a wolf in sheep’s clothing." Though we also read that "the Jewish Council on Urban Affairs in Chicago expressed "deep concern" that the unexplained visa revocation was "one more horrific example of government suspicion, intimidation and exaggerated allegations against Muslims and Muslim communities."" And that he does not advocate violence, for instance. It seems unlikely that he is "a wolf in sheep's clothing"--and certainly he is *not* "quiet", which seems to be the main issue. From what I read, he is a challenging but compassionate intellectual. His challenges seem measured, from what I read. What do you make of the situation and him, Ishaq? ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 08:08:05 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: Head count, please? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit me too on that definition L ----- Original Message ----- From: "holsapple1@juno.com" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 12:04 AM Subject: Re: Head count, please? > Hi Jonathan > > I'm guessing by townie you mean those not affiliated with a university. I would be one such writer. > > Bruce Holsapple > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 01:21:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: Head count, please? In-Reply-To: <005e01c50835$fce8eee0$951886d4@Brian> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks guys. That's more or less what I meant, but I would also refer to someone who learned poetics outside of the academic system, gained a reputation there, and THEN went back to school for the degree & teaching career as a "townie." Do other people use different definitions? Lawrence Upton wrote: >me too on that definition > >L >----- Original Message ----- >From: "holsapple1@juno.com" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 12:04 AM >Subject: Re: Head count, please? > > > > >>Hi Jonathan >> >>I'm guessing by townie you mean those not affiliated with a university. I >> >> >would be one such writer. > > >>Bruce Holsapple >> >> >> > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 21:22:03 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: K Zervos Subject: Re: Head count, please? In-Reply-To: <41FF3C02.5060205@natisp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would be one of those. Spent 15 years as a professional performance poet and school writing workshop facilitator. Published 6 books of poetry before i read a word of theory, or = considered poetics in a formal sense. Found the computer and literary theory and new media theory and a whole bunch of other theories in 1993,1994,1995 onwards. I'm still here. I like poetry, i like theory and i like argument, just like you. But = what i've found on the list is that there are a lot of cowboys and cowgirls = that are out to make a name for themselves, by attacking poets/townies (as = you call them) who have an established reputation. Why submit posts when someone wants a shoot-out, pardner. Cheers komninos komninos zervos lecturer, convenor of CyberStudies major School of Arts Griffith University Room 3.25 Multimedia Building G23 Gold Coast Campus Parkwood PMB 50 Gold Coast Mail Centre Queensland 9726 Australia Phone 07 5552 8872 Fax 07 5552 8141 homepage: http://www.gu.edu.au/ppages/k_zervos broadband experiments: http://users.bigpond.net.au/mangolegs |||-----Original Message----- |||From: UB Poetics discussion group = [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] |||On Behalf Of Jonathan Penton |||Sent: Tuesday, 1 February 2005 6:21 PM |||To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU |||Subject: Re: Head count, please? ||| |||Thanks guys. ||| |||That's more or less what I meant, but I would also refer to someone = who |||learned poetics outside of the academic system, gained a reputation |||there, and THEN went back to school for the degree & teaching career = as |||a "townie." ||| |||Do other people use different definitions? ||| ||| |||Lawrence Upton wrote: ||| |||>me too on that definition |||> |||>L |||>----- Original Message ----- |||>From: "holsapple1@juno.com" |||>To: |||>Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 12:04 AM |||>Subject: Re: Head count, please? |||> |||> |||> |||> |||>>Hi Jonathan |||>> |||>>I'm guessing by townie you mean those not affiliated with a = university. |||I |||>> |||>> |||>would be one such writer. |||> |||> |||>>Bruce Holsapple |||>> |||>> |||>> |||> |||> |||> |||> ||| |||-- |||No virus found in this incoming message. |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. |||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.3 - Release Date: 31/01/05 ||| --=20 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.3 - Release Date: 31/01/05 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 07:27:22 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adeena Karasick Subject: Talonbooks News MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Folks, March starts off with a number of major events for Talon including a conference honoring our author Frank Davey: Poetics and Public Culture at the University of Western Ontario. Readers, Presenters and Speakers at the Conference include Frank - who will be launching his new book 'Back to the War' 0-88922-514-1 with a public reading on March 3, George Bowering, Jeff Derksen, Daphne Marlatt, Fred Wah, Adeena Karasick and bill bissett. On March 2 Adeena Karasick will be doing the Canadian premier of her homolinguistic trans'elation of the Sefer Yetzirah (the Kabbalistic Book of Creation) at the Drake Hotel's Underground Lounge in Toronto from 7:30-9:30. The performance will include music and projections and a guest appearance by bill bissett. Both bill and Adeena will also be performing that week at the Grey Borders Reading series in St Catharines on March 1 and at the Exchange Rate Reading Series in Buffalo on March 4. On March 2 BRAVO! TV will be premiering 'George Ryga: Poliical Playwright' at 8:00pm an hour long documentary on one of Canada's and Talon's best known and best-selling playwrights, author of that staple of Canadian drama backlist The Ecstasy of Rita Joe 0-88922-000-X and our recently published 'The Other Plays' 0-88922-500-1 and Prairie Novels 0-88922-501-X. This is a much anticipated documentary that should help rekindle interest in this great Canadian playwright. In early April Talon will be undertaking two mammoth promotions on opposite sides of the country. In Vancouver the AWP Conference will be occuring and on April 1 (see attachment) Talon will be presenting a reading and reception of 10 of our most illustrious authors and poets: bill bisset, George Bowering, Colin Browne, Marie Clements, Frank Davey, MAC (Marian) Farrant, Adeena Karasick, Daphne Marlatt, Jamie Reid and Fred Wah. We expect it will be the Canadian literary event of the conference. There will also be a public reading of these same authors and those of some of our colleagues at FC2 (fiction collective 2) distributed by Northwestern University Press which will be a benefit for the RAW Exchange reading series at the Vancouver Public Library. Date, time and venue have yet to be confirmed but it will likely be at the Crush Champagne Lounge 1180 Granville Ave on March 31 from 7:00-10:00pm. At the same time in Montreal at Blue Metropolis Steve Galluccio author of Mambo Italiano 0-88922-494-3 the most popular play in Montreal history and soon to be a long running ongoing show a la the Mousetrap will be performing in a series of readings and panel discussions at the Festival. Thierry Hentsch will also be participating in a public lecture and discussion of the issues raised by his book Truth or Death 088922-509-5. There will be launches of both Martine Desjardins new novel All that Glitters 088922-520-6 and Mary Meigs' Beyond Recall 088922-505-2 which will include a memorial to Mary. All in all 14 of our writers representing over 40 different Talon titles will be appearing in Canada during this first week of April. We hope you will help us support these great writers as they launch us into the Spring of 2005 and National Poetry Month. BK Robert Kasher Director of Sales and Marketing Talon Books rkasher@sympatico.ca 416-703-7485 725 King St W # 306 Toronto, ON M5V 2W9 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 09:31:55 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brenda Coultas Subject: Zinc Bar Calendar for Febuary, NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SUNDAY FEBRUARY 6 : Carol Mirakove & Jenn McCreary SUNDAY FEBRUARY 13 : John Colburn & Jeffrey Jullich* SUNDAY FEBRUARY 20 : Erica Kaufman & Adam DeGraff SUNDAY FEBRUARY 27: Joel Kuszai & Ethan Fugate *Jeffrey was to have read during the Great Blizzard of '05. Every single sunday at 6:59pm $5 goes to the poets. After the reading would be a good time to ask about that money they borrowed from you a long time ago. Your host is Brendan Lorber. ZINC BAR 90 West Houston btw laguardia & thompson Photos & bios of the poets & their plans for their evenings at zinc are at http://www.lungfull.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 09:14:07 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Bird Brains Get Some New Names, And New Respect Comments: To: Writing and Theory across Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed (My African Grey is learning the alphabet at a year & a half old & my partner has already taught him to speak more Romanian than me, plus he's starting to be able to roll his r's, something this Wisconsin boy is never gonna be able to do. ~mIEKAL) from todays Washington Post: Irene Pepperberg, a comparative psychologist at Harvard's Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Studies whose experiments with a grey parrot named Alex have shown that some birds are capable of extremely complex thinking -- even grasping something akin to the sophisticated concept of "zero" -- said she was gratified to see scientific language catching up with reality. Bird Brains Get Some New Names, And New Respect By Rick Weiss Their plumage can be beautiful, and many warble or sing. A few even seem kind of clever, in their way. But for all that is impressive about birds, most people would agree: "Brainy" they are not. Now science is about to set the record straight. And the truth may be jarring for all those big-brained mammals for whom the very word for avian gray matter has come to mean "dummy." Today an international group of experts is publishing a call for scientists around the world to switch to a new set of words to describe the various parts of the avian brain -- a wholesale revision of terms that is rarely seen in science and the first total makeover of bird brain anatomy in more than a century. The new system, which draws upon many of the words used to describe the human brain and has broad support among scientists, acknowledges the now overwhelming evidence that avian and mammalian brains are remarkably similar -- a fact that explains why many kinds of bird are not just twitchily resourceful but able to design and manufacture tools, solve mathematical problems and, in many cases, use language in ways that even chimpanzees and other primates cannot. In particular, it reflects a new recognition that the bulk of a bird's brain is not, as scientists once thought, mere "basal ganglia" -- the part of the brain that simply coordinates instincts. Rather, fully 75 percent of a bird's brain is an intricately wired mass that processes information in much the same way as the vaunted human cerebral cortex. Accordingly, under the new system, no longer will a part of that avian cortex-like region be referred to as the "archistriatum," with its Latin root that implies primitive. As of today it is the "arcopallium," which means, in effect, "arched structure in a cognitively sophisticated area." "It's the opposite of sticks and stones -- names do matter when it comes to how scientists and other people think about things," said Duke University neuroscientist Erich Jarvis, a leader of the Avian Brain Nomenclature Consortium, whose manifesto appears in the February issue of the journal Nature Reviews Neuroscience. The old system, Jarvis said, stunted scientists' imaginations when it came to appreciating birds' brainpower. The new system revamps about 95 percent of the 1,000 or so terms that scientists use to describe avian brain structure. "It's long overdue," said Evan Balaban, a behavioral neuroscientist at McGill University in Montreal. "Changing a name by itself may not seem earth-shattering, but it reflects an important change in knowledge." The problem goes back to the 19th century, when German naturalist Ludwig Edinger did the first careful studies of avian neuroanatomy and labeled the myriad parts of the bird brain. He had a good eye for detail, Jarvis said. But he was trapped in the political and religious thinking of his day, which presumed that evolution is a process that goes from simplest to more complicated and from dumber to smarter, all culminating in the appearance of humans, who were seen as closest to God. In keeping with that view, Edinger's naming system relied heavily on prefixes such as "paleo" and "archi" to indicate the primordial nature of the bird's brain. Similar structures can be found near the core of "higher" animals' brains -- leftovers, it was believed, from evolutionary history. But they were covered by what were believed to be newer layers of smarter material such as the human "neocortex." Edinger was unaware that the first birds did not appear on Earth until 50 million to 100 million years after the earliest, supposedly "neo" mammals. He also got fooled by the fact that the large portion of bird brain devoted to higher processing of visual and auditory information -- the part equivalent to the human cerebral cortex -- has a neural architecture that makes it look, at first, like the simpler regions that deal with instinctive behaviors. Like many people today, Edinger had little reason to question the conclusion that birds had meager intellects, said Tony Reiner, a University of Tennessee neuroscientist and a member of the consortium. "Pigeons bob their heads while they walk, which makes them look like morons, and so people assumed birds only have the moron part of the brain," Reiner said. "People thought they were stuck with just the instinct part." In recent decades, however, several avenues of evidence have proved otherwise. Studies of brain chemicals, neural connections and genetic controls over embryonic brain development have shown that the vast bulk of a bird's admittedly small brain is not "primitive" at all but rather constitutes a robust "pallium," or higher-processing center. And behavioral studies in recent years have proved that many birds have more pallium power than your average mammal. Even seemingly moronic pigeons can categorize objects as "human-made" vs. "natural"; discriminate between cubistic and impressionistic styles of painting; and communicate using visual symbols on computers, according to evidence compiled by the consortium, which spent seven years on the project with input from scientists around the world. Some birds can play games in which they intentionally tell lies. New Caledonian crows design and make tools. Scrub jays can recall events from specific times or places -- a trait once thought unique to humans. And perhaps most impressive, parrots, hummingbirds and thousands of other species of songbirds are able to teach and learn vocal communication -- the basic skill that makes human language possible. That's a variant of social intelligence not found in any mammal other than people, bats, and cetaceans such as dolphins and whales. In recognition of such sophistication, the group deleted all prefixes, suffixes and other linguistic features that implied evolutionary precedence, superiority or inferiority. In their place the group offers value-free words that tell, for example, where a structure lies or how it is connected to other brain parts. Irene Pepperberg, a comparative psychologist at Harvard's Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Studies whose experiments with a grey parrot named Alex have shown that some birds are capable of extremely complex thinking -- even grasping something akin to the sophisticated concept of "zero" -- said she was gratified to see scientific language catching up with reality. "The argument has been that birds don't have a cerebral cortex so they can't do these things," she said. "Now we can appreciate that the bird does have a brain area that we can imagine doing these things. It makes all this not so incredibly surprising." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 10:46:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Bird Brains Get Some New Names, And New Respect In-Reply-To: <6139dcd8efc0c28d6d3fbf115ba21f4c@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mIEKAL I guess we'll have to think twice before we call someone a bird brain, unless we change the phrase to a compliment. I can't say this article entirely surprises me. I've read about the cognitive skills of ravens. As a teenager I had a pet crow who outsmarted many adults and had an outrageous sense of humor. Apparently other members of the animal kingdom have abilities that the arrogance of our species has prevented us from seeing. Vernon -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of mIEKAL aND Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 10:14 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Bird Brains Get Some New Names, And New Respect (My African Grey is learning the alphabet at a year & a half old & my partner has already taught him to speak more Romanian than me, plus he's starting to be able to roll his r's, something this Wisconsin boy is never gonna be able to do. ~mIEKAL) from todays Washington Post: Irene Pepperberg, a comparative psychologist at Harvard's Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Studies whose experiments with a grey parrot named Alex have shown that some birds are capable of extremely complex thinking -- even grasping something akin to the sophisticated concept of "zero" -- said she was gratified to see scientific language catching up with reality. Bird Brains Get Some New Names, And New Respect By Rick Weiss Their plumage can be beautiful, and many warble or sing. A few even seem kind of clever, in their way. But for all that is impressive about birds, most people would agree: "Brainy" they are not. Now science is about to set the record straight. And the truth may be jarring for all those big-brained mammals for whom the very word for avian gray matter has come to mean "dummy." Today an international group of experts is publishing a call for scientists around the world to switch to a new set of words to describe the various parts of the avian brain -- a wholesale revision of terms that is rarely seen in science and the first total makeover of bird brain anatomy in more than a century. The new system, which draws upon many of the words used to describe the human brain and has broad support among scientists, acknowledges the now overwhelming evidence that avian and mammalian brains are remarkably similar -- a fact that explains why many kinds of bird are not just twitchily resourceful but able to design and manufacture tools, solve mathematical problems and, in many cases, use language in ways that even chimpanzees and other primates cannot. In particular, it reflects a new recognition that the bulk of a bird's brain is not, as scientists once thought, mere "basal ganglia" -- the part of the brain that simply coordinates instincts. Rather, fully 75 percent of a bird's brain is an intricately wired mass that processes information in much the same way as the vaunted human cerebral cortex. Accordingly, under the new system, no longer will a part of that avian cortex-like region be referred to as the "archistriatum," with its Latin root that implies primitive. As of today it is the "arcopallium," which means, in effect, "arched structure in a cognitively sophisticated area." "It's the opposite of sticks and stones -- names do matter when it comes to how scientists and other people think about things," said Duke University neuroscientist Erich Jarvis, a leader of the Avian Brain Nomenclature Consortium, whose manifesto appears in the February issue of the journal Nature Reviews Neuroscience. The old system, Jarvis said, stunted scientists' imaginations when it came to appreciating birds' brainpower. The new system revamps about 95 percent of the 1,000 or so terms that scientists use to describe avian brain structure. "It's long overdue," said Evan Balaban, a behavioral neuroscientist at McGill University in Montreal. "Changing a name by itself may not seem earth-shattering, but it reflects an important change in knowledge." The problem goes back to the 19th century, when German naturalist Ludwig Edinger did the first careful studies of avian neuroanatomy and labeled the myriad parts of the bird brain. He had a good eye for detail, Jarvis said. But he was trapped in the political and religious thinking of his day, which presumed that evolution is a process that goes from simplest to more complicated and from dumber to smarter, all culminating in the appearance of humans, who were seen as closest to God. In keeping with that view, Edinger's naming system relied heavily on prefixes such as "paleo" and "archi" to indicate the primordial nature of the bird's brain. Similar structures can be found near the core of "higher" animals' brains -- leftovers, it was believed, from evolutionary history. But they were covered by what were believed to be newer layers of smarter material such as the human "neocortex." Edinger was unaware that the first birds did not appear on Earth until 50 million to 100 million years after the earliest, supposedly "neo" mammals. He also got fooled by the fact that the large portion of bird brain devoted to higher processing of visual and auditory information -- the part equivalent to the human cerebral cortex -- has a neural architecture that makes it look, at first, like the simpler regions that deal with instinctive behaviors. Like many people today, Edinger had little reason to question the conclusion that birds had meager intellects, said Tony Reiner, a University of Tennessee neuroscientist and a member of the consortium. "Pigeons bob their heads while they walk, which makes them look like morons, and so people assumed birds only have the moron part of the brain," Reiner said. "People thought they were stuck with just the instinct part." In recent decades, however, several avenues of evidence have proved otherwise. Studies of brain chemicals, neural connections and genetic controls over embryonic brain development have shown that the vast bulk of a bird's admittedly small brain is not "primitive" at all but rather constitutes a robust "pallium," or higher-processing center. And behavioral studies in recent years have proved that many birds have more pallium power than your average mammal. Even seemingly moronic pigeons can categorize objects as "human-made" vs. "natural"; discriminate between cubistic and impressionistic styles of painting; and communicate using visual symbols on computers, according to evidence compiled by the consortium, which spent seven years on the project with input from scientists around the world. Some birds can play games in which they intentionally tell lies. New Caledonian crows design and make tools. Scrub jays can recall events from specific times or places -- a trait once thought unique to humans. And perhaps most impressive, parrots, hummingbirds and thousands of other species of songbirds are able to teach and learn vocal communication -- the basic skill that makes human language possible. That's a variant of social intelligence not found in any mammal other than people, bats, and cetaceans such as dolphins and whales. In recognition of such sophistication, the group deleted all prefixes, suffixes and other linguistic features that implied evolutionary precedence, superiority or inferiority. In their place the group offers value-free words that tell, for example, where a structure lies or how it is connected to other brain parts. Irene Pepperberg, a comparative psychologist at Harvard's Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Studies whose experiments with a grey parrot named Alex have shown that some birds are capable of extremely complex thinking -- even grasping something akin to the sophisticated concept of "zero" -- said she was gratified to see scientific language catching up with reality. "The argument has been that birds don't have a cerebral cortex so they can't do these things," she said. "Now we can appreciate that the bird does have a brain area that we can imagine doing these things. It makes all this not so incredibly surprising." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 07:19:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Ahearn Subject: Re: Thanks from Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com In-Reply-To: <000101c5066a$13759460$6402a8c0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Keep up the good work, Ray. Best, Joe Ahearn Haas Bianchi wrote: Dear Friends of Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com I want to thank all of you so much for using the site-after returning from vacation in sunny Brazil we were pleased to discover that we had topped 41,000 total visits since February 1, 2004 our launch date. At least for us this seems like a nice large number of visits. It is our community in Chicago and Milwaukee that makes the site work and it is a mere reflection of the poetry in our region- but I also owe the rest of you as well in other parts of the country and now the world. I want to thank all the reading series animators for sending the info in a timely way and all the poets profiled as well for making an idea for a section into a reality. With our Deepest Thanks Raymond L Bianchi,& Waltraud Haas Editors chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 13:04:10 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: test MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII see above ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 11:26:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Chaucer and Boccaccio - Transmograpfication Comments: To: kevin thurston Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Chaucer Transmogrified in Chaucer's version of Boccaccio's tale of Troillo and Criseda- aptly titled Troillus and Criseyde,- a young woman is reading Il Filostrato to Criseyde and her=20 maids in waiting www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 11:42:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Shankar, Ravi (English)" Subject: DRUNKEN BOAT'S FIRST ANNUAL PANLITERARY AWARDS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DRUNKEN BOAT'S FIRST ANNUAL PANLITERARY AWARDS Deadline: April 5th, 2005 Judges: Annie Finch, Sabina Murray, Alexandra Tolstoy, Talan Memmott, = David Hall, and DJ Spooky Drunken Boat, , international online journal = for the arts, announces its First Annual Panliterary Awards in Poetry, = Fiction, Non-Fiction, Web-Art, Photo/Video, Sound. Submit up to three = works, either via email to or via physical = mail to: Drunken Boat, 119 Main St., Chester, CT 06412. A $15 entry fee = must accompany all submissions, either via check or money order, else = submitted electronically at: = . Winners in all categories = will be announced at the Boston Cyberarts Festival = in May 2005, will be featured in a = subsequent issue of Drunken Boat, and will be invited to perform at = future multimedia events and performances. All other entries will be = considered for publication. Submissions must be received no later than April 5th, 2005. Awards will = be given in the following genres: poetry, fiction, non-fiction, web art, = photo/video and sound. The judges for the Panliterary Awards are: Poetry- Annie Finch, Poet, translator, and librettist and Director of = the Stonecoast MFA Program in Creative Writing at the University of = Southern Maine, Fiction- Sabina Murray, 2003 PEN/Faulkner Award Winner = =20 Non-Fiction- Alexandra Tolstoy, Fellow of the Royal Geographical = Society, Web-Art- Talan Memmott, 2000 trAce / Alt-X New Media Writing Award = Winner and Creative Director for the literary hypermedia journal, = BeeHive, Photo/Video- David Hall, Video art pioneer, TV interventionist, = installation artist, sculptor and filmmaker. = Sound- Paul D. Miller, aka DJ Spooky that Subliminal Kid, Musician, = writer, producer, editor-at-large of Artbyte, and conceptual artist = whose work has appeared in the Whitney Biennial and the Venice Biennial = for Architecture, Works will be accepted as URLs of work online, as attachments (MSWord = files or .jpg/.gif/.zip/.swf/.html/.mp3/.mov/.wav files), or else as = hard copy, disk, or CD/DVD. Please include the phrase Panliterary Awards = in the subject line of any email submission and do not paste text = submissions into the body of the email. Email editor@drunkenboat.com or = shankarr@ccsu.edu for more information. *************** Ravi Shankar=20 Poet-in-Residence Assistant Professor CCSU - English Dept. 860-832-2766 shankarr@ccsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 09:48:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Is it Deja Vu - i.e. Vietnam - all over again? Comments: cc: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics , UK POETRY In-Reply-To: <3FAACF9869235D4BAE69B91D65389DDFE8A65E@adams.cnr.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Seems like we've read this story before! The New York Times -- 09-04-1967 U.S. Encouraged by Vietnam Vote Officials Cite 83% Turnout Despite Vietcong Terror by Peter Grose, Special to The New York Times (9/4/1967: p. 2) WASHINGTON, Sept. 3-- United States officials were surprised and heartened today at the size of turnout in South Vietnam's presidential election despite a Vietcong terrorist campaign to disrupt the voting. According to reports from Saigon, 83 per cent of the 5.85 million registered voters cast their ballots yesterday. Many of them risked reprisals threatened by the Vietcong. The size of the popular vote and the inability of the Vietcong to destroy the election machinery were the two salient facts in a preliminary assessment of the nation election based on the incomplete returns reaching here. Pending more detailed reports, neither the State Department nor the White House would comment on the balloting or the victory of the military candidates, Lieut. Gen. Nguyen Van Thieu, who was running for president, and Premier Nguyen Cao Ky, the candidate for vice president. A successful election has long been seen as the keystone in President Johnson's policy of encouraging the growth of constitutional processes in South Vietnam. The election was the culmination of a constitutional development that began in January, 1966, to which President Johnson gave his personal commitment when he met Premier Ky and General Thieu, the chief of state, in Honolulu in February. The purpose of the voting was to give legitimacy to the Saigon Government, which has been founded only on coups and power plays since November, 1963, when President Ngo Dinh Deim was overthrown by a military junta. Few members of that junta are still around, most having been ousted or exiled in subsequent shifts of power. Significance Not Diminished The fact that the backing of the electorate has gone to the generals who have been ruling South Vietnam for the last two years does not, in the Administration's view, diminish the significance of the constitutional step that has been taken. The hope here is that the new government will be able to maneuver with a confidence and legitimacy long lacking in South Vietnamese politics. That hope could have been dashed either by a small turnout, indicating widespread scorn or a lack of interest in constitutional development, or by the Vietcong's disruption of the balloting. American officials had hoped for an 80 per cent turnout. That was the figure in the election in September for the Constituent Assembly. Seventy-eight per cent of the registered voters went to the polls in elections for local officials last spring. Before the results of the presidential election started to come in, the American officials warned that the turnout might be less than 80 per cent because the polling place would be open for two or three hours less than in the election a year ago. The turnout of 83 per cent was a welcome surprise. The turnout in the 1964 United States Presidential election was 62 per cent. Captured documents and interrogations indicated in the last week a serious concern among Vietcong leaders that a major effort would be required to render the election meaningless. This effort has not succeeded, judging from the reports from Saigon. NYT. 9/4/1967: p. 2. ------ End of Forwarded Message ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 14:22:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: [Native Truth] The Broken Circle (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 14:16:15 -0500 From: Terri Jean Reply-To: native_truth-owner@yahoogroups.com To: Native Truth Subject: [Native Truth] The Broken Circle The Native Truth A column dedicated to historical truth and human rights activism of the American Indian Editor: Terri Jean www.terrijean.com Contact: terrijean@bright.net Established year 2000 ================================================================================== The Broken Circle by Terri Jean When I was a little girl, my great grandma Minnie puzzled me something awful. Though her race was far from a secret - the entire town knew her as the "Indian Lady" - she denied her heritage until her dying day. I remember looking at black-and-white history book and magazine photos of Native Americans - mostly from the late 1800's - and some of those people looked a lot like grandma. "She's Indian," my mother would explain, "but she doesn't like being an Indian." Doesn't like to be Indian? I would ask why over and over again, for years upon years, and to a variety of family members who knew grandma best. There were no answers. They didn't know either. I was born in 1970, at a time when Native American imagery, for the most part, went from 'savage murderers' to 'spiritual victims.' Films from years before, otherwise known as Cowboy & Indian movies, portrayed First Peoples as blood-thirsty killers, circling and scalping poor, innocent settlers who only wanted to set up a happy homestead for their families. This image was a sharp contrast to the films of my day (and today) in which mainstream Native characters are justice-seeking activists, spiritual tree-huggers, exotic maidens, and/or victims of oppression and corrupt government policies and officials. It took more than two decades for me to understand why my grandmother denied her heritage. It took even longer for me to fully comprehend the concept of genocide, and to realize that grandmother was the victim of governmental genocide. She assimilated herself into mainstream society. She left her culture and refused to pass it on to her children, grandchildren, or to me, her eldest great grandchild. Even though her face was Indian, her soul wanted to be white.... and she wanted the rest of us to be white too. I will never know why she turned her back on who she truly was. But, what I do know is that since the dawn of this nations republic (otherwise known as the European Invasion), Europeans have done everything in their power to destroy the indigenous population. They consistently lied and broke treaties, stole land and children, passed anti-Indian laws, brainwashed children into hating their own race, and they OFTEN held people as prisoners of war, confining them to prisons and unsanitary reservations where many died of disease and starvation. They marched them across country, shooting those who couldn't keep up, and when extermination policies failed, they enacted a new weapon: assimilation. The goal of the US government was to force Americas First Peoples to give up their culture, their traditions, their language and their ceremonies so they could be what the US thought was the ideal civilized American. If there were no First Peoples to account to, then there would be no treaties or treaty rights, no history to account for, no monies to pay out, and no reservation property to hold in trust. Manifest Destiny would rule. Assimilation was considered the compassionate solution to the "Indian Problem," and even though both extermination and cultural assimilation were policies of genocide, most of society didn't care then, just like they don't care now. In the latter part of the nineteenth-century, the Federal government instituted a "degree of blood" policy in relation to land allotment. Terms such as "full" and "one-half" were common identification labels; the more white a person was, the more they would benefit. Those with little to no white blood were deemed incompetent, placed under government wardship, and under the control of the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA). Exaggerating ones white ancestry was common, and if a Native person could pass as white, they often did so. Self-assimilation was, for some, easier than living in fear, without constitutional rights or a method of ensuring personal justice. For others, it was beneficial financially and socially. They could be like everyone else and own a home, have civil rights, get a job, vote, and walk among normal folk without trepidation . But for some, there was no choice. "Turning white" and living inside the culture of the enemy was simply a matter of survival. And as long as no one knew the truth, they were safe. Today Native Americans continue to be defined by US government standards, and by the amount of FEDERALLY RECOGNIZED tribal blood that pulses through each and every body. Even if you were raised by your parents who were Native, and they had Native parents, and you raise your children within the First Peoples tribal culture - with the same beliefs, ceremonies, histories, artwork, ideologies that make that culture what it is - First Peoples are still defined by their pedigree. Defining a race by blood quantum and not culture is a ridiculous, outdated and racist notion. But it is a continued act of genocide? Many say yes, because as federal guidelines tighten, the bloodlines are diluting, and a genetic cut-off point has been established that, once you or your children reach it, you or them are no longer a Native person by your own governments standards. All your cultural rights are gone. Can you imagine telling a person of another race - such an African American - that even though they ARE African American, they are not entitled to certain programs and benefits because they a) don't have the proper paperwork or b) they aren't black enough? For decades the US government has done all it could to eradicate the Native people. They wanted to break them down, to destroy their culture, and to prohibit future generations from enjoying their heritage. They continue their policies of eradication even today. There are only so many Native Americans in the US. And if each has to marry someone from another federally recognized nation, and they cannot step outside their race, this will only happen so many times before it is necessary to go elsewhere for a mate. Right? But once you do, your children or grandchildren may lose their cultural entitlements. A race will live, but it will not be recognized by their own government. Such a race will be extinct. And this, is genocide. But there is another side to this issue. Because the government defines First Peoples by genetic (and not cultural) standards, there is now an open door policy to those who were raised outside of the culture, who have not felt the oppression, racism and prejudice associated with living within that culture, and yet with the proper paperwork, they may be listed as more Indian than someone living on a reservation, and thusly receiving entitlements meant for those who need it most. Is this fair? Some say yes, some say no. It's an issue debated often across the United States, and especially inside Indian Country. Some First People say let them all in, count them, bring in the new blood and grow as a nation. Others say they receive little support as it is, support that is their racial birthright. Why should it be shared with someone who isn't part of the culture itself? Both points are valid, but let me throw this into the mix: Should those people who are successful by-products of deliberate assimilation policies be punished just because a government, or their ancestors, have disconnected them from their people, their heritage and their nation? Should Native Americans turn their back on them also? What if they have a true inner calling to rejoin their people? Should they be shunned? These people, and there are millions of them, are victims of genocide. They are the expected and desired consequence of policies meant to eradicate the Native population from this land. They were removed from their culture and forced to live outside of it. Should they be faulted for trying to get back in? The circle has been broken. Generations have been lost. Those who try to learn more about what they are missing are often left to their own devices - and that usually leads them into the world of wannabe's and false "Native" leaders who spread their lies to those who are hungry for knowledge and a sense of belonging. Is there a solution? Can the circle be mended? I think so. But it would take a lot of effort from both the Native American and the "lost bird generation." I met a fascinating women a few months back named Jeanne Thomas (wife of Harry Thomas, a Winnebago elder from Nebraska) who suggested that perhaps Native communities could offer a membership, of sorts, to those outside the tribal nations, but who want to join or to help out. They would not be actual tribal members, they would be more like associates or friends of the tribes. It would be a subset of the tribal community; a membership organization meant to support the community itself. Then the "outsiders" could learn the real history, assist with the issues and struggles facing that particular community, and hopefully feel a sense of familiarity with the people they are related to, or they believe they have a special bond with. The focus would be on education, not tribal enrollment, because education is the key to progress and change. A membership fee could cover the costs of a regular newsletter, meetings or perhaps an annual celebration. Again, it would all focus on EDUCATION and building a bigger, stronger, inclusive community. Can you imagine the good that would come from this? The changes that could be made in government policy, treaty rights, literature, advertising, and Indian imagery? Think about it. When these associates know the truth, they will understand the struggles and issues facing today's First Peoples. They would be motivated to participate. It could be a movement. A civil and social movement. The "lost bird generation" would no longer be lost. The First Peoples could keep their entitlements. And a collective voice would rise up and out of the mouths of hundreds, thousands, maybe millions of Americans who want what's right and what's just for the Native people... for their people... for our people. I am perfectly willing to help get this started. Those of you who can speak for your people, if you would like to submit news, articles, profiles, etc. to me at terrijean@bright.net, I will post the information to my website for everyone to read. Just make sure it is EDUCATIONAL. And if your nation initiates such a course of action, please let me know and I will do what I can to promote it. There are possibly millions of people out there who want to know more... who want to participate. They want to belong. Give them something to belong to, don't punish them for what the government did. Teach them the truth and get them to join your causes. Together we can mend this broken circle. Have a great day and cheers! Terri Jean ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Terri Jean, director of the Red Roots Educational Project, is the author of the daily inspirational, 365 Days of Walking the Red Road (Adams Media Corp). Visit http://www.terrijean.com to learn more. Upcoming projects for Terri Jean: an educator's guide for American Indian Heritage Month, a book based on the Native Truth column, a collection of essays entitled "Confessions of a Former Indian Princess Wannabe" and a collection of children's books. Stay tuned..... Read back issues of the Native Truth at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/native_truth/messages Want to talk about this? Join the Native Truth chat group by sending a blank email to native_truth_chat-subscribe@yahoogroups.com or go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/native_truth_chat/ Reprinting this column is permitted as long as you republish the ENTIRE column... from start to finish. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Give underprivileged students the materials they need to learn. Bring education to life by funding a specific classroom project. http://us.click.yahoo.com/4F6XtA/_WnJAA/E2hLAA/oOHolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< To subscribe to this group send a blank email to: native_truth-subscribe@yahoogroups.com><><><><><><><><><><>><><><><><><><><><><><<><><>< Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/native_truth/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: native_truth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 12:03:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: [Native Truth] The Broken Circle In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks for posting this, Alan. Like no doubt many on this list, I have several "ghosted' Indians in my family ancestry. I used to think that was a romantic point of honor. Until I read the history of how Native American women and children were abducted and either "married" or "raised" by white men and families. I think this persons approach of tribal "associates" is a good one, undoubtedly, beset with difficulties as well. Annually, at the end of February I go to Eureka, California to the tribal and the larger community mourning of the 1863 massacre of Wyots on Indian Island and simultaneously, the celebration of the Wyot New Year. My step-grandmother was part Wyot - her grandmother and grandmother's sister were both kidnapped and enslaved by white families in the 1850's. I was close to my step grandmother, Assimilation? Indeed. We never spoke about being part Indian. In the Thirties she was a member of the Heritage Book Club - I still keep her case bound copies of Conrad's Argosy and Alexander Pope's translations of the Iliad and the Odyssey - the Pope, by the way, is not readable! However, I keep them as they remain emblematic of a time. It is forever interesting to me - the ghosted memories (Indian or not) that run under the radar of most educations, as well as families. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 14:16:15 -0500 > From: Terri Jean > Reply-To: native_truth-owner@yahoogroups.com > To: Native Truth > Subject: [Native Truth] The Broken Circle > > > The Native Truth > A column dedicated to historical truth and human rights activism > of the American Indian > > Editor: Terri Jean > www.terrijean.com > Contact: terrijean@bright.net > Established year 2000 > > ============================================================================== > ===== > > > > The Broken Circle > by Terri Jean > > > When I was a little girl, my great grandma Minnie puzzled me something > awful. Though her race was far from a secret - the entire town knew her as > the "Indian Lady" - she denied her heritage until her dying day. > > I remember looking at black-and-white history book and magazine photos of > Native Americans - mostly from the late 1800's - and some of those people > looked a lot like grandma. "She's Indian," my mother would explain, "but she > doesn't like being an Indian." > > Doesn't like to be Indian? > > I would ask why over and over again, for years upon years, and to a variety > of family members who knew grandma best. There were no answers. They didn't > know either. > > I was born in 1970, at a time when Native American imagery, for the most > part, went from 'savage murderers' to 'spiritual victims.' Films from years > before, otherwise known as Cowboy & Indian movies, portrayed First Peoples > as blood-thirsty killers, circling and scalping poor, innocent settlers who > only wanted to set up a happy homestead for their families. This image was a > sharp contrast to the films of my day (and today) in which mainstream Native > characters are justice-seeking activists, spiritual tree-huggers, exotic > maidens, and/or victims of oppression and corrupt government policies and > officials. > > It took more than two decades for me to understand why my grandmother denied > her heritage. It took even longer for me to fully comprehend the concept of > genocide, and to realize that grandmother was the victim of governmental > genocide. She assimilated herself into mainstream society. She left her > culture and refused to pass it on to her children, grandchildren, or to me, > her eldest great grandchild. Even though her face was Indian, her soul > wanted to be white.... and she wanted the rest of us to be white too. > > I will never know why she turned her back on who she truly was. But, what I > do know is that since the dawn of this nations republic (otherwise known as > the European Invasion), Europeans have done everything in their power to > destroy the indigenous population. They consistently lied and broke > treaties, stole land and children, passed anti-Indian laws, brainwashed > children into hating their own race, and they OFTEN held people as prisoners > of war, confining them to prisons and unsanitary reservations where many > died of disease and starvation. They marched them across country, shooting > those who couldn't keep up, and when extermination policies failed, they > enacted a new weapon: assimilation. The goal of the US government was to > force Americas First Peoples to give up their culture, their traditions, > their language and their ceremonies so they could be what the US thought was > the ideal civilized American. If there were no First Peoples to account to, > then there would be no treaties or treaty rights, no history to account for, > no monies to pay out, and no reservation property to hold in trust. Manifest > Destiny would rule. > > Assimilation was considered the compassionate solution to the "Indian > Problem," and even though both extermination and cultural assimilation were > policies of genocide, most of society didn't care then, just like they don't > care now. > > In the latter part of the nineteenth-century, the Federal government > instituted a "degree of blood" policy in relation to land allotment. Terms > such as "full" and "one-half" were common identification labels; the more > white a person was, the more they would benefit. Those with little to no > white blood were deemed incompetent, placed under government wardship, and > under the control of the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA). Exaggerating ones > white ancestry was common, and if a Native person could pass as white, they > often did so. Self-assimilation was, for some, easier than living in fear, > without constitutional rights or a method of ensuring personal justice. For > others, it was beneficial financially and socially. They could be like > everyone else and own a home, have civil rights, get a job, vote, and walk > among normal folk without trepidation . But for some, there was no choice. > "Turning white" and living inside the culture of the enemy was simply a > matter of survival. And as long as no one knew the truth, they were safe. > > Today Native Americans continue to be defined by US government standards, > and by the amount of FEDERALLY RECOGNIZED tribal blood that pulses through > each and every body. Even if you were raised by your parents who were > Native, and they had Native parents, and you raise your children within the > First Peoples tribal culture - with the same beliefs, ceremonies, histories, > artwork, ideologies that make that culture what it is - First Peoples are > still defined by their pedigree. Defining a race by blood quantum and not > culture is a ridiculous, outdated and racist notion. > > But it is a continued act of genocide? Many say yes, because as federal > guidelines tighten, the bloodlines are diluting, and a genetic cut-off point > has been established that, once you or your children reach it, you or them > are no longer a Native person by your own governments standards. All your > cultural rights are gone. > > Can you imagine telling a person of another race - such an African > American - that even though they ARE African American, they are not entitled > to certain programs and benefits because they a) don't have the proper > paperwork or b) they aren't black enough? > > For decades the US government has done all it could to eradicate the Native > people. They wanted to break them down, to destroy their culture, and to > prohibit future generations from enjoying their heritage. They continue > their policies of eradication even today. There are only so many Native > Americans in the US. And if each has to marry someone from another federally > recognized nation, and they cannot step outside their race, this will only > happen so many times before it is necessary to go elsewhere for a mate. > Right? But once you do, your children or grandchildren may lose their > cultural entitlements. A race will live, but it will not be recognized by > their own government. Such a race will be extinct. And this, is genocide. > > But there is another side to this issue. Because the government defines > First Peoples by genetic (and not cultural) standards, there is now an open > door policy to those who were raised outside of the culture, who have not > felt the oppression, racism and prejudice associated with living within that > culture, and yet with the proper paperwork, they may be listed as more > Indian than someone living on a reservation, and thusly receiving > entitlements meant for those who need it most. > > Is this fair? Some say yes, some say no. It's an issue debated often across > the United States, and especially inside Indian Country. Some First People > say let them all in, count them, bring in the new blood and grow as a > nation. Others say they receive little support as it is, support that is > their racial birthright. Why should it be shared with someone who isn't part > of the culture itself? > > Both points are valid, but let me throw this into the mix: Should those > people who are successful by-products of deliberate assimilation policies be > punished just because a government, or their ancestors, have disconnected > them from their people, their heritage and their nation? Should Native > Americans turn their back on them also? What if they have a true inner > calling to rejoin their people? Should they be shunned? > > These people, and there are millions of them, are victims of genocide. They > are the expected and desired consequence of policies meant to eradicate the > Native population from this land. They were removed from their culture and > forced to live outside of it. Should they be faulted for trying to get back > in? > > The circle has been broken. Generations have been lost. Those who try to > learn more about what they are missing are often left to their own devices - > and that usually leads them into the world of wannabe's and false "Native" > leaders who spread their lies to those who are hungry for knowledge and a > sense of belonging. > > Is there a solution? Can the circle be mended? I think so. But it would take > a lot of effort from both the Native American and the "lost bird > generation." > > I met a fascinating women a few months back named Jeanne Thomas (wife of > Harry Thomas, a Winnebago elder from Nebraska) who suggested that perhaps > Native communities could offer a membership, of sorts, to those outside the > tribal nations, but who want to join or to help out. They would not be > actual tribal members, they would be more like associates or friends of the > tribes. It would be a subset of the tribal community; a membership > organization meant to support the community itself. Then the "outsiders" > could learn the real history, assist with the issues and struggles facing > that particular community, and hopefully feel a sense of familiarity with > the people they are related to, or they believe they have a special bond > with. The focus would be on education, not tribal enrollment, because > education is the key to progress and change. A membership fee could cover > the costs of a regular newsletter, meetings or perhaps an annual > celebration. Again, it would all focus on EDUCATION and building a bigger, > stronger, inclusive community. > > Can you imagine the good that would come from this? The changes that could > be made in government policy, treaty rights, literature, advertising, and > Indian imagery? Think about it. When these associates know the truth, they > will understand the struggles and issues facing today's First Peoples. They > would be motivated to participate. It could be a movement. A civil and > social movement. > > The "lost bird generation" would no longer be lost. The First Peoples could > keep their entitlements. And a collective voice would rise up and out of the > mouths of hundreds, thousands, maybe millions of Americans who want what's > right and what's just for the Native people... for their people... for our > people. > > I am perfectly willing to help get this started. Those of you who can speak > for your people, if you would like to submit news, articles, profiles, etc. > to me at terrijean@bright.net, I will post the information to my website for > everyone to read. Just make sure it is EDUCATIONAL. And if your nation > initiates such a course of action, please let me know and I will do what I > can to promote it. > > There are possibly millions of people out there who want to know more... who > want to participate. They want to belong. Give them something to belong to, > don't punish them for what the government did. Teach them the truth and get > them to join your causes. Together we can mend this broken circle. > > Have a great day and cheers! > > Terri Jean > > > >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > Terri Jean, director of the Red Roots Educational Project, is the author of > the daily inspirational, 365 Days of Walking the Red Road (Adams Media > Corp). Visit http://www.terrijean.com to learn more. > > Upcoming projects for Terri Jean: an educator's guide for American Indian > Heritage Month, a book based on the Native Truth column, a collection of > essays entitled "Confessions of a Former Indian Princess Wannabe" and a > collection of children's books. Stay tuned..... > > Read back issues of the Native Truth at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/native_truth/messages > > Want to talk about this? Join the Native Truth chat group by sending a blank > email to native_truth_chat-subscribe@yahoogroups.com or go to > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/native_truth_chat/ > > Reprinting this column is permitted as long as you republish the ENTIRE > column... from start to finish. > >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> > Give underprivileged students the materials they need to learn. > Bring education to life by funding a specific classroom project. > http://us.click.yahoo.com/4F6XtA/_WnJAA/E2hLAA/oOHolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > To subscribe to this group send a blank email to: > native_truth-subscribe@yahoogroups.com><><><><><><><><><><>><><><><><><><><><> > <><<><><>< > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/native_truth/ > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > native_truth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 14:57:50 -0500 Reply-To: Mike Kelleher Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Kelleher Organization: Just Buffalo Literary Center Subject: IF ALL OF BUFFALO READ THE SAME BOOK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE FEBRUARY 1, 2005 Contact Information: Michael Kelleher Phone: (716) 832-5400 FAX: (716) 832-5710 Email: mjk@justbuffalo.org JUST BUFFALO CHOOSES THE INVENTION OF SOLITUDE, BY PAUL AUSTER, FOR IF ALL OF BUFFALO READ THE SAME BOOK 2005 Just Buffalo Literary Center has chosen The Invention of Solitude, by Paul Auster, as the centerpiece of If All Of Buffalo Read The Same Book 2005. Mr. Auster will be in Buffalo October 5-6 to do several book signings, a reading/Q & A, and a film screening/Q&A. As Just Buffalo's 2005 selection for If All of Buffalo Read the Same Book, Auster's thought-provoking memoir will resonate region-wide. Part elegy, part intellectual self-discovery, part family tree, the book is a study of relationships and memory, coincidence and influence, cause and effect. It is about mystery, baseball, murder, America, war, writing, and grieving. At the moment of his father's fatal heart attack, author Paul Auster was on the brink of financial and emotion ruin. He had writer's block, a failing marriage, and a newborn son. With the modest inheritance that came with his father's death, Auster was suddenly floating instead of drowning. "For the first time in my life I had the time to write, to take on long projects without worrying how I was going to pay the rent," Auster has said. "It's a terrible equation, finally. To think that my father's death saved my life." What Auster wrote with this new time and money, The Invention of Solitude, saved his father's life in return. In the book's first section, a reflection on his father's life and death, Auster recorded what he could of a man who had otherwise "left no traces." If he did not write what he knew of his father, Auster realized, "his entire life [would] vanish along with him." Instead, Auster transformed his father' s remoteness-and his son's struggle to understand it-into a book that touches readers' experiences of mourning and memory. "I've received scores of letters, hundreds of letters, from people who've told me how much the book helped them to get through the rough experience of losing a parent," Auster said. "In writing my own story, I seemed to touch on something that other people could respond to. For a writer, working alone in his little room, there's no greater reward than that." Presented this year in conjunction with WBFO 88.7 FM and Talking Leaves Books, If All of Buffalo Read the Same Book continues Just Buffalo's 30-year mission to create and strengthen communities through the literary arts. Now in its fifth year, the program provides a common point of reference-a single book-from which to foster conversations among the diverse communities of Buffalo and Western New York. The book is available for purchase at all area bookstores, as well as online. All book sales made through Talking Leaves Books will benefit Just Buffalo. A free readers guide is available for download at www.justbuffalo.org. -30- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 12:33:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: PCA/ACA Conference in San Diego [roommate query] In-Reply-To: <20050131.012124.-92161.6.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm looking for someone to share a double room at the conference in March. I don't smoke or snore, and I promise to share those little chocolates the hotel leaves on the bed ~ If you're interested in splitting the cost, please backchannel. Thanks! Amy THE POPULAR CULTURE & AMERICAN CULTURE - HOTEL INFORMATION PAGE - CONFERENCE DATES: MARCH 23 - 26, 2005 http://www.h-net.org/%7Epcaaca/2005/hotel.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 12:39:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: [Native Truth] The Broken Circle (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alan, Thank you! =20 This is poignant writing; I'm particularly fond of the lack of cynicism. = Terri sees a better place for the peoples of this and other nations to = be intellectually than to stand on bitterness and dismiss a future = because of a deprived or worst usurped past. How compassionate and how = warmly human that is of her. =20 I am delighted to have read the work and learned of Terri's efforts and = of her group. I am indebted to you for your having found and shared = this information. Alex=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alan Sondheim=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 11:22 AM Subject: [Native Truth] The Broken Circle (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 14:16:15 -0500 From: Terri Jean > Reply-To: = native_truth-owner@yahoogroups.com To: Native Truth = > Subject: [Native Truth] The Broken Circle The Native Truth A column dedicated to historical truth and human rights activism of the American Indian Editor: Terri Jean www.terrijean.com Contact: terrijean@bright.net Established year 2000 = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Broken Circle by Terri Jean When I was a little girl, my great grandma Minnie puzzled me something awful. Though her race was far from a secret - the entire town knew = her as the "Indian Lady" - she denied her heritage until her dying day. I remember looking at black-and-white history book and magazine photos = of Native Americans - mostly from the late 1800's - and some of those = people looked a lot like grandma. "She's Indian," my mother would explain, = "but she doesn't like being an Indian." Doesn't like to be Indian? I would ask why over and over again, for years upon years, and to a = variety of family members who knew grandma best. There were no answers. They = didn't know either. I was born in 1970, at a time when Native American imagery, for the = most part, went from 'savage murderers' to 'spiritual victims.' Films from = years before, otherwise known as Cowboy & Indian movies, portrayed First = Peoples as blood-thirsty killers, circling and scalping poor, innocent = settlers who only wanted to set up a happy homestead for their families. This image = was a sharp contrast to the films of my day (and today) in which mainstream = Native characters are justice-seeking activists, spiritual tree-huggers, = exotic maidens, and/or victims of oppression and corrupt government policies = and officials. It took more than two decades for me to understand why my grandmother = denied her heritage. It took even longer for me to fully comprehend the = concept of genocide, and to realize that grandmother was the victim of = governmental genocide. She assimilated herself into mainstream society. She left = her culture and refused to pass it on to her children, grandchildren, or = to me, her eldest great grandchild. Even though her face was Indian, her soul wanted to be white.... and she wanted the rest of us to be white too. I will never know why she turned her back on who she truly was. But, = what I do know is that since the dawn of this nations republic (otherwise = known as the European Invasion), Europeans have done everything in their power = to destroy the indigenous population. They consistently lied and broke treaties, stole land and children, passed anti-Indian laws, = brainwashed children into hating their own race, and they OFTEN held people as = prisoners of war, confining them to prisons and unsanitary reservations where = many died of disease and starvation. They marched them across country, = shooting those who couldn't keep up, and when extermination policies failed, = they enacted a new weapon: assimilation. The goal of the US government was = to force Americas First Peoples to give up their culture, their = traditions, their language and their ceremonies so they could be what the US = thought was the ideal civilized American. If there were no First Peoples to = account to, then there would be no treaties or treaty rights, no history to = account for, no monies to pay out, and no reservation property to hold in trust. = Manifest Destiny would rule. Assimilation was considered the compassionate solution to the "Indian Problem," and even though both extermination and cultural assimilation = were policies of genocide, most of society didn't care then, just like they = don't care now. In the latter part of the nineteenth-century, the Federal government instituted a "degree of blood" policy in relation to land allotment. = Terms such as "full" and "one-half" were common identification labels; the = more white a person was, the more they would benefit. Those with little to = no white blood were deemed incompetent, placed under government wardship, = and under the control of the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA). Exaggerating = ones white ancestry was common, and if a Native person could pass as white, = they often did so. Self-assimilation was, for some, easier than living in = fear, without constitutional rights or a method of ensuring personal = justice. For others, it was beneficial financially and socially. They could be like everyone else and own a home, have civil rights, get a job, vote, and = walk among normal folk without trepidation . But for some, there was no = choice. "Turning white" and living inside the culture of the enemy was simply = a matter of survival. And as long as no one knew the truth, they were = safe. Today Native Americans continue to be defined by US government = standards, and by the amount of FEDERALLY RECOGNIZED tribal blood that pulses = through each and every body. Even if you were raised by your parents who were Native, and they had Native parents, and you raise your children = within the First Peoples tribal culture - with the same beliefs, ceremonies, = histories, artwork, ideologies that make that culture what it is - First Peoples = are still defined by their pedigree. Defining a race by blood quantum and = not culture is a ridiculous, outdated and racist notion. But it is a continued act of genocide? Many say yes, because as = federal guidelines tighten, the bloodlines are diluting, and a genetic cut-off = point has been established that, once you or your children reach it, you or = them are no longer a Native person by your own governments standards. All = your cultural rights are gone. Can you imagine telling a person of another race - such an African American - that even though they ARE African American, they are not = entitled to certain programs and benefits because they a) don't have the proper paperwork or b) they aren't black enough? For decades the US government has done all it could to eradicate the = Native people. They wanted to break them down, to destroy their culture, and = to prohibit future generations from enjoying their heritage. They = continue their policies of eradication even today. There are only so many = Native Americans in the US. And if each has to marry someone from another = federally recognized nation, and they cannot step outside their race, this will = only happen so many times before it is necessary to go elsewhere for a = mate. Right? But once you do, your children or grandchildren may lose their cultural entitlements. A race will live, but it will not be recognized = by their own government. Such a race will be extinct. And this, is = genocide. But there is another side to this issue. Because the government = defines First Peoples by genetic (and not cultural) standards, there is now an = open door policy to those who were raised outside of the culture, who have = not felt the oppression, racism and prejudice associated with living = within that culture, and yet with the proper paperwork, they may be listed as more Indian than someone living on a reservation, and thusly receiving entitlements meant for those who need it most. Is this fair? Some say yes, some say no. It's an issue debated often = across the United States, and especially inside Indian Country. Some First = People say let them all in, count them, bring in the new blood and grow as a nation. Others say they receive little support as it is, support that = is their racial birthright. Why should it be shared with someone who = isn't part of the culture itself? Both points are valid, but let me throw this into the mix: Should = those people who are successful by-products of deliberate assimilation = policies be punished just because a government, or their ancestors, have = disconnected them from their people, their heritage and their nation? Should Native Americans turn their back on them also? What if they have a true inner calling to rejoin their people? Should they be shunned? These people, and there are millions of them, are victims of genocide. = They are the expected and desired consequence of policies meant to = eradicate the Native population from this land. They were removed from their culture = and forced to live outside of it. Should they be faulted for trying to get = back in? The circle has been broken. Generations have been lost. Those who try = to learn more about what they are missing are often left to their own = devices - and that usually leads them into the world of wannabe's and false = "Native" leaders who spread their lies to those who are hungry for knowledge = and a sense of belonging. Is there a solution? Can the circle be mended? I think so. But it = would take a lot of effort from both the Native American and the "lost bird generation." I met a fascinating women a few months back named Jeanne Thomas (wife = of Harry Thomas, a Winnebago elder from Nebraska) who suggested that = perhaps Native communities could offer a membership, of sorts, to those = outside the tribal nations, but who want to join or to help out. They would not be actual tribal members, they would be more like associates or friends = of the tribes. It would be a subset of the tribal community; a membership organization meant to support the community itself. Then the = "outsiders" could learn the real history, assist with the issues and struggles = facing that particular community, and hopefully feel a sense of familiarity = with the people they are related to, or they believe they have a special = bond with. The focus would be on education, not tribal enrollment, because education is the key to progress and change. A membership fee could = cover the costs of a regular newsletter, meetings or perhaps an annual celebration. Again, it would all focus on EDUCATION and building a = bigger, stronger, inclusive community. Can you imagine the good that would come from this? The changes that = could be made in government policy, treaty rights, literature, advertising, = and Indian imagery? Think about it. When these associates know the truth, = they will understand the struggles and issues facing today's First Peoples. = They would be motivated to participate. It could be a movement. A civil and social movement. The "lost bird generation" would no longer be lost. The First Peoples = could keep their entitlements. And a collective voice would rise up and out = of the mouths of hundreds, thousands, maybe millions of Americans who want = what's right and what's just for the Native people... for their people... for = our people. I am perfectly willing to help get this started. Those of you who can = speak for your people, if you would like to submit news, articles, profiles, = etc. to me at terrijean@bright.net, I will = post the information to my website for everyone to read. Just make sure it is EDUCATIONAL. And if your nation initiates such a course of action, please let me know and I will do = what I can to promote it. There are possibly millions of people out there who want to know = more... who want to participate. They want to belong. Give them something to = belong to, don't punish them for what the government did. Teach them the truth = and get them to join your causes. Together we can mend this broken circle. Have a great day and cheers! Terri Jean ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Terri Jean, director of the Red Roots Educational Project, is the = author of the daily inspirational, 365 Days of Walking the Red Road (Adams Media Corp). Visit http://www.terrijean.com to = learn more. Upcoming projects for Terri Jean: an educator's guide for American = Indian Heritage Month, a book based on the Native Truth column, a collection = of essays entitled "Confessions of a Former Indian Princess Wannabe" and = a collection of children's books. Stay tuned..... Read back issues of the Native Truth at = http://groups.yahoo.com/group/native_truth/messages Want to talk about this? Join the Native Truth chat group by sending a = blank email to = native_truth_chat-subscribe@yahoogroups.com or go to = http://groups.yahoo.com/group/native_truth_chat/ Reprinting this column is permitted as long as you republish the = ENTIRE column... from start to finish. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor = --------------------~--> Give underprivileged students the materials they need to learn. Bring education to life by funding a specific classroom project. = http://us.click.yahoo.com/4F6XtA/_WnJAA/E2hLAA/oOHolB/TM = --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< To subscribe to this group send a blank email to: = native_truth-subscribe@yahoogroups.com><><><><><><><><><><>><><><><><><><><><><><<><><>< Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: = http://groups.yahoo.com/group/native_truth/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: = native_truth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: = http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 16:17:44 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dollop of cool whip on top of sugarless cherry jello... hr to suns set...pub lib..del ray...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 16:28:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Russell Golata Subject: Fw: IF ALL OF BUFFALO READ THE SAME BOOK Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
> FEBRUARY 1, 2005
>
> Contact Information:  Michael Kelleher
> Phone: (716) 832-5400
> FAX: (716) 832-5710
> Email: mjk@justbuffalo.org
>
> JUST BUFFALO CHOOSES THE INVENTION OF SOLITUDE, BY PAUL AUSTER, FOR IF ALL
> OF BUFFALO READ THE SAME BOOK 2005
>
> Just Buffalo Literary Center has chosen The Invention of Solitude, by Paul
> Auster, as the centerpiece of If All Of Buffalo Read The Same Book 2005. Mr.
> Auster will be in Buffalo October 5-6 to do several book signings, a
> reading/Q & A, and a film screening/Q&A. As Just Buffalo's 2005 selection
> for If All of Buffalo Read the Same Book, Auster's thought-provoking memoir
> will resonate region-wide. Part elegy, part intellectual self-discovery,
> part family tree, the book is a study of relationships and memory,
> coincidence and influence, cause and effect. It is about mystery, baseball,
> murder, America, war, writing, and grieving.
>
> At the moment of his father's fatal heart attack, author Paul Auster was on
> the brink of financial and emotion ruin. He had writer's block, a failing
> marriage, and a newborn son. With the modest inheritance that came with his
> father's death, Auster was suddenly floating instead of drowning. "For the
> first time in my life I had the time to write, to take on long projects
> without worrying how I was going to pay the rent," Auster has said. "It's a
> terrible equation, finally. To think that my father's death saved my life."
> What Auster wrote with this new time and money, The Invention of Solitude,
> saved his father's life in return.
>
> In the book's first section, a reflection on his father's life and death,
> Auster recorded what he could of a man who had otherwise "left no traces."
> If he did not write what he knew of his father, Auster realized, "his entire
> life [would] vanish along with him." Instead, Auster transformed his father'
> s remoteness-and his son's struggle to understand it-into a book that
> touches readers' experiences of mourning and memory. "I've received scores
> of letters, hundreds of letters, from people who've told me how much the
> book helped them to get through the rough experience of losing a parent,"
> Auster said. "In writing my own story, I seemed to touch on something that
> other people could respond to. For a writer, working alone in his little
> room, there's no greater reward than that."
>
> Presented this year in conjunction with WBFO 88.7 FM and Talking Leaves
> Books, If All of Buffalo Read the Same Book continues Just Buffalo's 30-year
> mission to create and strengthen communities through the literary arts. Now
> in its fifth year, the program provides a common point of reference-a single
> book-from which to foster conversations among the diverse communities of
> Buffalo and Western New York. The book is available for purchase at all area
> bookstores, as well as online. All book sales made through Talking Leaves
> Books will benefit Just Buffalo. A free readers guide is available for
> download at www.justbuffalo.org.
>
> -30-
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 1/28/05
>
> -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.4 - Release Date: 2/1/05 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 14:41:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: [smart remark] Re: Poem: Callimachus: Credo In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii no, we've only banned political poems. but this appears to be political, as the poet's disdain for the people--and apparently sex in public places--while put in rather blunt yet transgressively non-academic terms ("yuck"), clearly portends a systematic, rigorous and comprehensive philosophy of social change as it relates to poison stickers. while I agree with the poet's comprehensive grasp of nuances of poison control, i don't it necessarily entails taking a position against sex in public places. rmc "On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a very silly place." - King Arthur "David A. Kirschenbaum" wrote: on 1/29/05 12:51 PM, Jon Corelis at jonc@STANFORDALUMNI.ORG wrote: > Callimachus: Credo > > > I hate political poems. Not for me, > the human wad that clogs the great high way. > A love that's everyone's business? Forget it. A drink > from the common trough? No, thanks. The public: yuck. > > > -- translated from the Greek by Jon Corelis haven't we banned poems from the list yet? -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 14:55:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: [smart remark] Re: Poem: Callimachus: Credo In-Reply-To: <20050201224136.4120.qmail@web50405.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I missed the reference to sex in public places. Unless you mean poems about sex or in favor of sex, published and therefore public. GB On 1-Feb-05, at 2:41 PM, Robert Corbett wrote: > no, we've only banned political poems. but this appears to be > political, as the poet's disdain for the people--and apparently sex in > public places--while put in rather blunt yet transgressively > non-academic terms ("yuck"), clearly portends a systematic, rigorous > and comprehensive philosophy of social change as it relates to poison > stickers. while I agree with the poet's comprehensive grasp of > nuances of poison control, i don't it necessarily entails taking a > position against sex in public places. > > rmc > > "On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a very silly > place." - King Arthur > > "David A. Kirschenbaum" wrote: > on 1/29/05 12:51 PM, Jon Corelis at jonc@STANFORDALUMNI.ORG wrote: > >> Callimachus: Credo >> >> >> I hate political poems. Not for me, >> the human wad that clogs the great high way. >> A love that's everyone's business? Forget it. A drink >> from the common trough? No, thanks. The public: yuck. >> >> >> -- translated from the Greek by Jon Corelis > > haven't we banned poems from the list yet? > > -- > David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher > Boog City > 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H > NY, NY 10001-4754 > For event and publication information: > http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ > T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) > F: (212) 842-2429 > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 14:56:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Brigitte Byrd Subject: Any news? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Camille: I hope you heard from Shippensburg or the university in Orlando. If not, well you're like me. I finally called the Chair's assistant at UIC who told me that they were just finished with the interview process and she could not give me any more information but will start send letter soon. I suppose that I am not selected. Is this code language or what? There is unfortunately not much else left to apply to, as I don't want to apply to a community college. I guess that I am thinking more the way you were thinking and will start consider other options, other fields, and other countries. . . That's a bit demoralizing. You know, if you would like, I would be glad to read your manuscript and give you feedback. I know that you don't have a reader for your creative work, so I'm volunteering! My very best, Brigitte Visiting Instructor English Department Florida State University Tallahassee, FL 32308-1580 (850)645-0103 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 15:03:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Brigitte Byrd Subject: What else can I say? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This glitch was, obviously, a major blunder! Brigitte Visiting Instructor English Department Florida State University Tallahassee, FL 32308-1580 (850)645-0103 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 18:12:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: poet in alaska MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable does anyone know a poet living in alaska? Michael ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 18:37:12 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: so easy to swallow MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At this buffet known as Poetics, it's nice to receive some attention. I thank you kindly. I think I've stumbled into dialectical poetry, a way of exchanging points of view and building understanding of individual perspectives by combining poems, key words, scrambles, etc. It reminds me of an older technique the name of which escapes me at this moment when poets responded to one another with satire, poem vs. poem. I now trust my intuitive reponses more and accidentally use the right words. I meant to say "nosh" instead of "gnash", but the meaning of the poem deepens when speaking of digestion and disagreement. Poets shouldn't gnash their teeth towards one another regarding taste and form . . . just politics and philosophy. Mary Jo ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 16:30:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: [smart remark] Re: Poem: Callimachus: Credo In-Reply-To: <6D787883-74A4-11D9-A5CD-000A95C34F08@sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "a love that is everyone's business. a drink from the common trough." this reading may be tendentious. George Bowering wrote: I missed the reference to sex in public places. Unless you mean poems about sex or in favor of sex, published and therefore public. GB On 1-Feb-05, at 2:41 PM, Robert Corbett wrote: > no, we've only banned political poems. but this appears to be > political, as the poet's disdain for the people--and apparently sex in > public places--while put in rather blunt yet transgressively > non-academic terms ("yuck"), clearly portends a systematic, rigorous > and comprehensive philosophy of social change as it relates to poison > stickers. while I agree with the poet's comprehensive grasp of > nuances of poison control, i don't it necessarily entails taking a > position against sex in public places. > > rmc > > "On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a very silly > place." - King Arthur > > "David A. Kirschenbaum" wrote: > on 1/29/05 12:51 PM, Jon Corelis at jonc@STANFORDALUMNI.ORG wrote: > >> Callimachus: Credo >> >> >> I hate political poems. Not for me, >> the human wad that clogs the great high way. >> A love that's everyone's business? Forget it. A drink >> from the common trough? No, thanks. The public: yuck. >> >> >> -- translated from the Greek by Jon Corelis > > haven't we banned poems from the list yet? > > -- > David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher > Boog City > 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H > NY, NY 10001-4754 > For event and publication information: > http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ > T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) > F: (212) 842-2429 > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 13:41:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: Head count, please? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Monsieur Kominos Zervos thus spake: "like poetry, i like theory and i like argument, just like you. But what i've found on the list is that there are a lot of cowboys and cowgirls that are out to make a name for themselves, by attacking poets/townies (as you call them) who have an established reputation. " Sounds like bitter twisties - never encountered much attacking established poets - criticsing - questioning etc - yes. Theory and reading etc - good. Knowledge good - life experience -also good -all good. Both book and life learning all good -all kinds of learning and experience good (on the muck ball - given 'sub speciae...'). Attacking? Dont see that much. Cowboys/cowgirls? Never seen any. Cant accept the rocky rocky of the hurly burly burly? Its the the attackee's problem - maybe to the "established" it is a problem - scared of others climbing up to the top of the attackee's tower perhaps. Drn....... Richard Taylor richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet / Chess Addict/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: ----------------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."------------------ Aspect Books (N.Z.) on www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "K Zervos" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 3:22 AM Subject: Re: Head count, please? I would be one of those. Spent 15 years as a professional performance poet and school writing workshop facilitator. Published 6 books of poetry before i read a word of theory, or considered poetics in a formal sense. Found the computer and literary theory and new media theory and a whole bunch of other theories in 1993,1994,1995 onwards. I'm still here. I like poetry, i like theory and i like argument, just like you. But what i've found on the list is that there are a lot of cowboys and cowgirls that are out to make a name for themselves, by attacking poets/townies (as you call them) who have an established reputation. Why submit posts when someone wants a shoot-out, pardner. Cheers komninos komninos zervos lecturer, convenor of CyberStudies major School of Arts Griffith University Room 3.25 Multimedia Building G23 Gold Coast Campus Parkwood PMB 50 Gold Coast Mail Centre Queensland 9726 Australia Phone 07 5552 8872 Fax 07 5552 8141 homepage: http://www.gu.edu.au/ppages/k_zervos broadband experiments: http://users.bigpond.net.au/mangolegs |||-----Original Message----- |||From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] |||On Behalf Of Jonathan Penton |||Sent: Tuesday, 1 February 2005 6:21 PM |||To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU |||Subject: Re: Head count, please? ||| |||Thanks guys. ||| |||That's more or less what I meant, but I would also refer to someone who |||learned poetics outside of the academic system, gained a reputation |||there, and THEN went back to school for the degree & teaching career as |||a "townie." ||| |||Do other people use different definitions? ||| ||| |||Lawrence Upton wrote: ||| |||>me too on that definition |||> |||>L |||>----- Original Message ----- |||>From: "holsapple1@juno.com" |||>To: |||>Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 12:04 AM |||>Subject: Re: Head count, please? |||> |||> |||> |||> |||>>Hi Jonathan |||>> |||>>I'm guessing by townie you mean those not affiliated with a university. |||I |||>> |||>> |||>would be one such writer. |||> |||> |||>>Bruce Holsapple |||>> |||>> |||>> |||> |||> |||> |||> ||| |||-- |||No virus found in this incoming message. |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. |||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.3 - Release Date: 31/01/05 ||| -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.3 - Release Date: 31/01/05 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 20:04:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Russell Golata Subject: Re: so easy to swallow Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Thank You I enjoy reading your work and of others on this list. Developing a style of communication should be something that is welcomed and not blacklisted. Politics is part of what formulates how we express ourselves. We better be on top of it or Patriot Act Part II-could ban our ability to talk about politics in any kind of communication. As far as style is concerned, Sandburg was not welcomed by the critics because of his politics and his verse was to easy to understand. If you condemn people because they write to clearly there is a problem. Politics was the reason Ezra Pounds work was hard to get in America after WWII. Poetry and Politics to hard to separate. > No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.4 - Release Date: 2/1/05
>
> -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.4 - Release Date: 2/1/05 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 11:56:36 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: K Zervos Subject: spelling - what's in a name? In-Reply-To: <001701c50970$03c5d0d0$5ee236d2@com747839ba04b> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry Richard, That is how you spell your name isn't it? Sorry but Jon was asking why there were few poet-academics on the list, = i was just offering a possible explanation. I also pointed out that i fitted his description of a poet-academic and = i was still on the list. However i am not important enough a poet to = attack, so i don't get attacked much, so no " bitter twisties" really just observations. Why am i not important enough? Well i'm australian and i have come from being a performance poet and now work in the area of new media poetry or cyberpoetry or digital poetry or e-poetry, call it what you will (like). Three good reasons for some people on this list, basically dedicated to print poetry and poetics, to not consider me important enough to attack. If i was important enough people would take the trouble to ensure that = they spelt my name correctly, and, well, i have to correct that quite often, Cheers Komninos That's komninos, spelt komninos. komninos zervos homepage: http://www.gu.edu.au/ppages/k_zervos broadband experiments: http://users.bigpond.net.au/mangolegs |||-----Original Message----- |||From: UB Poetics discussion group = [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] |||On Behalf Of Richard Taylor |||Sent: Thursday, 3 February 2005 7:42 AM |||To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU |||Subject: Re: Head count, please? ||| |||Monsieur Kominos Zervos thus spake: ||| |||"like poetry, i like theory and i like argument, just like you. But = what |||i've found on the list is that there are a lot of cowboys and = cowgirls |||that |||are out to make a name for themselves, by attacking poets/townies (as = you |||call them) who have an established reputation. " ||| ||| |||Sounds like bitter twisties - never encountered much attacking |||established |||poets - criticsing - questioning etc - yes. ||| |||Theory and reading etc - good. Knowledge good - life experience = -also |||good -all good. Both book and life learning all good -all kinds of |||learning |||and experience good (on the muck ball - given 'sub speciae...'). ||| |||Attacking? Dont see that much. ||| |||Cowboys/cowgirls? Never seen any. ||| |||Cant accept the rocky rocky of the hurly burly burly? ||| |||Its the the attackee's problem - maybe to the "established" it is a |||problem - scared of others climbing up to the top of the attackee's = tower |||perhaps. ||| |||Drn....... ||| |||Richard Taylor ||| |||richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz ||| |||Poet / Chess Addict/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: ||| |||----------------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice |||cream."------------------ ||| |||Aspect Books |||(N.Z.) on www.abebooks.com |||----- Original Message ----- |||From: "K Zervos" |||To: |||Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 3:22 AM |||Subject: Re: Head count, please? ||| ||| |||I would be one of those. |||Spent 15 years as a professional performance poet and school writing |||workshop facilitator. |||Published 6 books of poetry before i read a word of theory, or = considered |||poetics in a formal sense. |||Found the computer and literary theory and new media theory and a = whole |||bunch of other theories in 1993,1994,1995 onwards. |||I'm still here. |||I like poetry, i like theory and i like argument, just like you. But = what |||i've found on the list is that there are a lot of cowboys and = cowgirls |||that |||are out to make a name for themselves, by attacking poets/townies (as = you |||call them) who have an established reputation. |||Why submit posts when someone wants a shoot-out, pardner. ||| ||| ||| ||| |||Cheers |||komninos ||| ||| |||komninos zervos |||lecturer, convenor of CyberStudies major |||School of Arts |||Griffith University |||Room 3.25 Multimedia Building G23 |||Gold Coast Campus |||Parkwood |||PMB 50 Gold Coast Mail Centre |||Queensland 9726 |||Australia |||Phone 07 5552 8872 Fax 07 5552 8141 |||homepage: http://www.gu.edu.au/ppages/k_zervos |||broadband experiments: |||http://users.bigpond.net.au/mangolegs ||| ||| ||||||-----Original Message----- ||||||From: UB Poetics discussion group |||[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] ||||||On Behalf Of Jonathan Penton ||||||Sent: Tuesday, 1 February 2005 6:21 PM ||||||To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU ||||||Subject: Re: Head count, please? |||||| ||||||Thanks guys. |||||| ||||||That's more or less what I meant, but I would also refer to = someone |||who ||||||learned poetics outside of the academic system, gained a = reputation ||||||there, and THEN went back to school for the degree & teaching = career |||as ||||||a "townie." |||||| ||||||Do other people use different definitions? |||||| |||||| ||||||Lawrence Upton wrote: |||||| ||||||>me too on that definition ||||||> ||||||>L ||||||>----- Original Message ----- ||||||>From: "holsapple1@juno.com" ||||||>To: ||||||>Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 12:04 AM ||||||>Subject: Re: Head count, please? ||||||> ||||||> ||||||> ||||||> ||||||>>Hi Jonathan ||||||>> ||||||>>I'm guessing by townie you mean those not affiliated with a |||university. ||||||I ||||||>> ||||||>> ||||||>would be one such writer. ||||||> ||||||> ||||||>>Bruce Holsapple ||||||>> ||||||>> ||||||>> ||||||> ||||||> ||||||> ||||||> |||||| ||||||-- ||||||No virus found in this incoming message. ||||||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ||||||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.3 - Release Date: = 31/01/05 |||||| ||| |||-- |||No virus found in this outgoing message. |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. |||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.3 - Release Date: 31/01/05 ||| ||| ||| |||-- |||Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. |||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ||| ||| ||| |||-- |||Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. |||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ||| |||-- |||No virus found in this incoming message. |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. |||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.4 - Release Date: 1/02/05 ||| --=20 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.4 - Release Date: 1/02/05 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 19:45:47 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Any news? In-Reply-To: <20050201225652.35632.qmail@web50202.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit oh Brigitte we can hope, we can hope... R Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Brigitte Byrd > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 4:57 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Any news? > > > Hi, Camille: > > I hope you heard from Shippensburg or the university in Orlando. > If not, well you're like me. I finally called the Chair's > assistant at UIC who told me that they were just finished with > the interview process and she could not give me any more > information but will start send letter soon. I suppose that I am > not selected. Is this code language or what? There is > unfortunately not much else left to apply to, as I don't want to > apply to a community college. I guess that I am thinking more > the way you were thinking and will start consider other options, > other fields, and other countries. . . That's a bit demoralizing. > > You know, if you would like, I would be glad to read your > manuscript and give you feedback. I know that you don't have a > reader for your creative work, so I'm volunteering! > > My very best, > > Brigitte > > > > > Visiting Instructor > English Department > Florida State University > Tallahassee, FL 32308-1580 > (850)645-0103 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 21:24:56 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: digest restructuring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This makes my final post for this day but if any of you on the list would like I am more than willing to make a semi-personal scathing backchannel invective just for you. Really I am quite good at it. I have often been urged to go to insult school which is located in Florida. While you have already seen how I can take a stereotype, say a beatnik jazz poet (IV drug user, unable to write a cogent sentence, lazy, disinterested in the notion of poetic craft) and have some fun with it in the unauthorized back channel that was published, (after just reviewing it, I still get a good tee-hee about the part where I advocate shooting up to increase comprehension); however, why stop there, I can do so much more. Although I am not an academic, instead "a townie" to answer that question, and since the term "academic" does not infer more or less high falutin poetic or gramatical clarity, I am offering to create a brilliantly articulate vida or razo full of nastiness just for you. All I need is your name to create this ancient poetic form of introduction which is often thought to have evolved into the modern day roast. After a completed version arrives in your mailbox you can hit the forward button to post the unpleasantries on poetics. Use the stereotype people have of people like you as a defense for this action. For example, if you are of the type previously discussed, one sans dictionary (this means without), then not knowing the words "forward" or "send" or not being conscious of your actions, might all be sufficient reasons for such a forwarded malfunction. Send me a note if you would like a little razo! Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 22:37:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: names Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Speaking of names, though I don't often see links to specific poems on the list, I liked this one by kari edwards published on (the poetry blog) *as/is* so much, I thought I might suggest list readers check it out at http://as-is.blogspot.com/2005/01/without-name-one-merely-cumulates-in.html# 110730390296411833 Nick P. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 00:03:40 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Chaucer and Boccaccio - Transmograpfication MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A key translation in the English language. It seems until the 19th century people did not know how closely Chaucer's poem was based on Boccaccio's. Murat In a message dated 02/01/05 12:32:50 PM, furniture_press@GRAFFITI.NET writes: > Chaucer Transmogrified > > > in Chaucer's version of > Boccaccio's tale of > Troillo and Criseda- > aptly titled > Troillus and Criseyde,- > a young woman is reading > Il Filostrato > to Criseyde and her > maids in waiting > > www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net > Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just > US$9.95 per year! > > > Powered by Outblaze > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 00:19:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: John Donne, The Computation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed John Donne, The Computation For the first twenty years, since yesterday */ I had my WinCE but yet I could not play - /* I scarce believed, thou couldst be gone away, */ And yet the Hat of Red wormed in the fray. /* For forty more, I fed on favours past, */ My linux box I knew was always fast - /* And forty on hopes, that thou wouldst, they might last. */ But Amiga left bereft and my hopes cast /* Tears drowned one hundred, and sighs blew out two, */ And lost ran towards BSD, the kernel new. /* A thousand I did neither think, nor do */ Of Unix flavours, those I most did rue - /* Or not divide, all being one thought of you; */ Including Darwin riding hard and true - /* Or in a thousand more, forgot that too. */ Gave up to WinXP the universal glue. /* Yet call not this long life; but think that I */ Resolve to run OS in universal sky - /* Am, by being dead, immortal; can ghosts die? */ Until the dead return, and on machines rely. /* _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 00:29:31 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: MORE Oatmeal! (I meant to get back to this MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Mairead-- On the record-- I mean unless you really want to add to my current condition, I could send a separate, very different, post homeward --I've been curious if the oatmeal poem is something that is expected from a Irish lass or laddie. Thinking of it, is lass or laddie racist? What about those hats that are pointed in the front? Are there other things expected if you are Irish, like talking about Joyce? For myself being a French / Indian I am supposed to poke fun at other Americans who pronounce my name wrong, (not mis-spell, komninos) eat fry bread and extol the virtues of corn but call it maize. There's not a specific poetic requirement expected, on the Indian side probably because we were not allowed to practice art for such a long time(not until the 1940's, or ones blood was white enough, say less than 25%) let alone consider writing poetry. On the French side I believe I am required to translate some other poets and uphold Mallarme, especially considering my writing is somewhat experimental. Except for the French horse in Ulysses and the French mechanicians in Dubliners I really scarcely remember a damn thing about Joyce. The French servitude is really unbecoming, and probably a big reason for it all being called fiction. I mean isn't that why a British guy removed Joyce's only copy and published it? Or am I being tracist again? As for Hall, I am not aware of the poem, I've avoided him, lack of updated images, not nearly the ear of his contemporaries. Olive St JG. rhymes way too much for me, always has Popeye saving him, and let Joyce stay in his house, what else to say. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ----- since it has been a long time, cleaning out some mail, here is the original-- ----------- Joyce started off as a poet actually David, it's rather amazing in the light of the consequent work in fiction though some would say the poetry of the later fiction hands down beats the poetry of the earlier poetry or that the later fiction dissolves into poetry though that implies fiction has boundaries poetry doesn't. What I'm surprised at is that Joyce was at Dodge in the first place. I didn't know he had visited America. That must have been after the trial. Do you know Gogarty's poem "After Reading Hall's 'Toy'" (sometimes called "Ringsend"): "I will live in Ringsend with a red-headed whore, / And the fan-light gone in / Where it lights Donald Hall's door," etc? I suppose Hall could have taken offense but doesn't seem to have, they were such jolly chaps the old masters. But I've often tried to find that poem of Hall's called "Toy" -- do you know it? Mairead (By the way have you noticed a lot of people on this list talking about what they have for their breakfast? I remember the grand old days of POETICS when people poured scorn and eviscerated one another. These are strange lost times.) -------- Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 00:24:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: John Donne, The Computation Comments: To: sondheim@PANIX.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Alan, Here's mine: YEAR AGE LIFE 1572 Birth in London 1576 4 Death of father 1577 5 Death of sister Elizabeth 1581 9 Death of sisters Mary & Katherine 1588 16 Death of stepfather 1593 21 Death of brother Henry 1603 31 Daughter Constance born 1604 32 Son John born 1605 33 Third child George born 1607 35 Fourth child Francis born 1608 36 Fifth child Lucy born 1609 37 Sixth child Bridget born 1611 39 Seventh child Mary born 1612 40 Eighth child stillborn 1613 41 Ninth child Nicholas born, dies 1614 42 Deaths of children Mary & Francis 1615 43 Tenth child Margaret born 1616 44 Eleventh child Elizabeth born 1617 45 Twelfth child stillborn; death of wife Ann 1627 55 Death of daughter Lucy 1631 59 Dies >>> sondheim@PANIX.COM 02/02/05 12:19 AM >>> John Donne, The Computation For the first twenty years, since yesterday */ I had my WinCE but yet I could not play - /* I scarce believed, thou couldst be gone away, */ And yet the Hat of Red wormed in the fray. /* For forty more, I fed on favours past, */ My linux box I knew was always fast - /* And forty on hopes, that thou wouldst, they might last. */ But Amiga left bereft and my hopes cast /* Tears drowned one hundred, and sighs blew out two, */ And lost ran towards BSD, the kernel new. /* A thousand I did neither think, nor do */ Of Unix flavours, those I most did rue - /* Or not divide, all being one thought of you; */ Including Darwin riding hard and true - /* Or in a thousand more, forgot that too. */ Gave up to WinXP the universal glue. /* Yet call not this long life; but think that I */ Resolve to run OS in universal sky - /* Am, by being dead, immortal; can ghosts die? */ Until the dead return, and on machines rely. /* _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 00:26:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: MORE Oatmeal! (I meant to get back to this Comments: To: editor@pavementsaw.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear David, I'll deal with you later. Mairead >>> David Baratier 02/02/05 12:29 AM >>> Dear Mairead-- On the record-- I mean unless you really want to add to my current condition, I could send a separate, very different, post homeward --I've been curious if the oatmeal poem is something that is expected from a Irish lass or laddie. Thinking of it, is lass or laddie racist? What about those hats that are pointed in the front? Are there other things expected if you are Irish, like talking about Joyce? For myself being a French / Indian I am supposed to poke fun at other Americans who pronounce my name wrong, (not mis-spell, komninos) eat fry bread and extol the virtues of corn but call it maize. There's not a specific poetic requirement expected, on the Indian side probably because we were not allowed to practice art for such a long time(not until the 1940's, or ones blood was white enough, say less than 25%) let alone consider writing poetry. On the French side I believe I am required to translate some other poets and uphold Mallarme, especially considering my writing is somewhat experimental. Except for the French horse in Ulysses and the French mechanicians in Dubliners I really scarcely remember a damn thing about Joyce. The French servitude is really unbecoming, and probably a big reason for it all being called fiction. I mean isn't that why a British guy removed Joyce's only copy and published it? Or am I being tracist again? As for Hall, I am not aware of the poem, I've avoided him, lack of updated images, not nearly the ear of his contemporaries. Olive St JG. rhymes way too much for me, always has Popeye saving him, and let Joyce stay in his house, what else to say. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ----- since it has been a long time, cleaning out some mail, here is the original-- ----------- Joyce started off as a poet actually David, it's rather amazing in the light of the consequent work in fiction though some would say the poetry of the later fiction hands down beats the poetry of the earlier poetry or that the later fiction dissolves into poetry though that implies fiction has boundaries poetry doesn't. What I'm surprised at is that Joyce was at Dodge in the first place. I didn't know he had visited America. That must have been after the trial. Do you know Gogarty's poem "After Reading Hall's 'Toy'" (sometimes called "Ringsend"): "I will live in Ringsend with a red-headed whore, / And the fan-light gone in / Where it lights Donald Hall's door," etc? I suppose Hall could have taken offense but doesn't seem to have, they were such jolly chaps the old masters. But I've often tried to find that poem of Hall's called "Toy" -- do you know it? Mairead (By the way have you noticed a lot of people on this list talking about what they have for their breakfast? I remember the grand old days of POETICS when people poured scorn and eviscerated one another. These are strange lost times.) -------- Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 00:56:59 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: John Donne, The Computation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 02/02/05 12:19:27 AM, sondheim@PANIX.COM writes: > Tears drowned one hundred, and sighs blew out two > " of the book what we once were where now is hair" "your loveliness is where is missing, where is missing is the air!" "souljam" Murat ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 03:03:19 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: AWP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Amy-- Usually I would suggest rooming with our associate editor, but we will not be able to see you at AWP. This is the first year this millennium that we will not be attending with our wares and it saddens me as you were one of the folks we were hoping to see. We would have had you sign some books at the table and stolen some University of Iowa books just like last year. Actually that is wrong, we would have gotten you something more appropriate, say Talonbooks or Coach House instead. While you might hear some other reason through the po-vine for our absence, maybe that we were importing illegal grains across the border (oatmeal, oddly enough), that our interns are felons, that we are being held responsible for Ohio voting to re-elect our current president and so on; however, I believe the real reason is because I sent a misunderstood missive about an important Canadian poet and he has used persuasive imagistic language to bar our entry. Our denied passports bear testimony to his mastery. If only our poets here had such power. This summer we will tour the eastern states and hope to stop in NYC, Boston, Albany, Maine, Buffalo, Rochester, DC, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Kent, Cleveland, Philly, Newark, Harrisburgh, and other places offered to us; needless to say, Toronto has been scratched. Other firmer offers are appreciated from all. NYC is our only confirmed date for Si, Dorian and David the beginning of July. I hope you will read with us then. Say howdy to everyone. Kiss them for me. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 00:18:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: spelling - what's in a name? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original This whole issue of whether people are poet-academics - or poets who learnt from the street and so on has been debated before - and also the Vispos etc clashed with some of the Langpos etc etc - I'm not "dedicated" to print poetry - am interested in other media poetry but for now I do poetry that is seen on the page - but I was a performance poet - well I was one (in New Zealand) because at first when I started writing again in about 1989 (I was 41) I got a big buzz from the immediate reception of my poems - but I now rarely read in public - the reasons are related to the fact I have a binge alcoholic problem (and I almost always get pissed at poetry readings - so such events are a danger zone for me ) - and indeed I feel that being published in the magazines etc or doing or getting a book published are better for me now - although that hasn't happened to the extent I have become "recognized" per se... I actually thought you were referring to some of the attacks on the Langpos etc and I have criticised the politics off some myself (not their poetics so much) - but I am indebted to them for a lot of innovative ideas and the politics of them is difficult to pinpoint in any case ( and each of course hold their own views as we all do) -and it may not matter so much...but some of my posts may have looked like "attacks" and I thought you were generalizing about writers such as Steve who were"attacking' some of the established poets - But it seems I got that wrong - it isn't necessarily good to be attacked Kominos (I forgot your name before) but if by that you mean recognition - you would be just as recognised whatever medium surely ..but I don't know much about that debate ( I know once there was debate on the merits of Vispo v other methods once) We all like to be recognised but I just enjoy reading poetry/criticism and so on - I seem to have lost the 'drive' to type up my poems etc (or make books or whatever - they stay - often literally hand written) - I want to get some old ones from my Amiga and I believe it might be easy to transfer them with a scanner..(once I have printed them all I want to store the Amiga - never throw anything away!) But even when I have written something I often leave it in a notebook - unfinished as I miss the buzz of direct "publication" to an audience - unless someone wants to publish them - and I have been asked to on a few occasions- so that's good - but as I say I don't do much unless someone wants me to contribute - so I don't send much unsolicited. I did at one stage but these days busy with my book hobby /business etc. But I found your post confusing - perhaps clearer now - - but re recognition - being Australian shouldn't matter - there are some very great Australian writers/poets - but I cant see the point of what David Baratier is saying - he may as well be talking in Chinese - he said something about someone being a drug user... If he's being high jinks silly buggers that's ok - I've been there and done that - but otherwise I cant figure him out - - no idea who he's talking about or what - you are ok...we talked about Guy Davenport and the things you sent he wrote about Wittgenstein. I'm neither for nor against academia ( if I could I would be an academic - it just hast happened that way that I am not) - try to stay open to poems to all styles of writing and media (my "attack" on jazz and the kabala was really just silly buggers...satire..it misfired a bit...) - In general the better read someone is the better poet/artist they will be but there are (many?) exceptions One encounters those who are aggressively proud of never having got past form 3 or whatever or even never went to school and the other extreme of people who are arrogant because of their great learning/ or their great "success" etc - but most people are a healthy in-between of that and an interesting mix - a variegation - we are learning machines we humans - we learn from everything. I don't put "successful" people - or any person on this earth above myself - whatever he she has done or who they are. From lecture halls to the famed university of life....or other, as the case may be regards Richard Taylor richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet / Chess Addict/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: ----------------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."------------------ Aspect Books (N.Z.) on www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "K Zervos" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 5:56 PM Subject: spelling - what's in a name? Sorry Richard, That is how you spell your name isn't it? Sorry but Jon was asking why there were few poet-academics on the list, i was just offering a possible explanation. I also pointed out that i fitted his description of a poet-academic and i was still on the list. However i am not important enough a poet to attack, so i don't get attacked much, so no " bitter twisties" really just observations. Why am i not important enough? Well i'm australian and i have come from being a performance poet and now work in the area of new media poetry or cyberpoetry or digital poetry or e-poetry, call it what you will (like). Three good reasons for some people on this list, basically dedicated to print poetry and poetics, to not consider me important enough to attack. If i was important enough people would take the trouble to ensure that they spelt my name correctly, and, well, i have to correct that quite often, Cheers Komninos That's komninos, spelt komninos. komninos zervos homepage: http://www.gu.edu.au/ppages/k_zervos broadband experiments: http://users.bigpond.net.au/mangolegs |||-----Original Message----- |||From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] |||On Behalf Of Richard Taylor |||Sent: Thursday, 3 February 2005 7:42 AM |||To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU |||Subject: Re: Head count, please? ||| |||Monsieur Kominos Zervos thus spake: ||| |||"like poetry, i like theory and i like argument, just like you. But what |||i've found on the list is that there are a lot of cowboys and cowgirls |||that |||are out to make a name for themselves, by attacking poets/townies (as you |||call them) who have an established reputation. " ||| ||| |||Sounds like bitter twisties - never encountered much attacking |||established |||poets - criticsing - questioning etc - yes. ||| |||Theory and reading etc - good. Knowledge good - life experience -also |||good -all good. Both book and life learning all good -all kinds of |||learning |||and experience good (on the muck ball - given 'sub speciae...'). ||| |||Attacking? Dont see that much. ||| |||Cowboys/cowgirls? Never seen any. ||| |||Cant accept the rocky rocky of the hurly burly burly? ||| |||Its the the attackee's problem - maybe to the "established" it is a |||problem - scared of others climbing up to the top of the attackee's tower |||perhaps. ||| |||Drn....... ||| |||Richard Taylor ||| |||richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz ||| |||Poet / Chess Addict/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: ||| |||----------------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice |||cream."------------------ ||| |||Aspect Books |||(N.Z.) on www.abebooks.com |||----- Original Message ----- |||From: "K Zervos" |||To: |||Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 3:22 AM |||Subject: Re: Head count, please? ||| ||| |||I would be one of those. |||Spent 15 years as a professional performance poet and school writing |||workshop facilitator. |||Published 6 books of poetry before i read a word of theory, or considered |||poetics in a formal sense. |||Found the computer and literary theory and new media theory and a whole |||bunch of other theories in 1993,1994,1995 onwards. |||I'm still here. |||I like poetry, i like theory and i like argument, just like you. But what |||i've found on the list is that there are a lot of cowboys and cowgirls |||that |||are out to make a name for themselves, by attacking poets/townies (as you |||call them) who have an established reputation. |||Why submit posts when someone wants a shoot-out, pardner. ||| ||| ||| ||| |||Cheers |||komninos ||| ||| |||komninos zervos |||lecturer, convenor of CyberStudies major |||School of Arts |||Griffith University |||Room 3.25 Multimedia Building G23 |||Gold Coast Campus |||Parkwood |||PMB 50 Gold Coast Mail Centre |||Queensland 9726 |||Australia |||Phone 07 5552 8872 Fax 07 5552 8141 |||homepage: http://www.gu.edu.au/ppages/k_zervos |||broadband experiments: |||http://users.bigpond.net.au/mangolegs ||| ||| ||||||-----Original Message----- ||||||From: UB Poetics discussion group |||[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] ||||||On Behalf Of Jonathan Penton ||||||Sent: Tuesday, 1 February 2005 6:21 PM ||||||To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU ||||||Subject: Re: Head count, please? |||||| ||||||Thanks guys. |||||| ||||||That's more or less what I meant, but I would also refer to someone |||who ||||||learned poetics outside of the academic system, gained a reputation ||||||there, and THEN went back to school for the degree & teaching career |||as ||||||a "townie." |||||| ||||||Do other people use different definitions? |||||| |||||| ||||||Lawrence Upton wrote: |||||| ||||||>me too on that definition ||||||> ||||||>L ||||||>----- Original Message ----- ||||||>From: "holsapple1@juno.com" ||||||>To: ||||||>Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 12:04 AM ||||||>Subject: Re: Head count, please? ||||||> ||||||> ||||||> ||||||> ||||||>>Hi Jonathan ||||||>> ||||||>>I'm guessing by townie you mean those not affiliated with a |||university. ||||||I ||||||>> ||||||>> ||||||>would be one such writer. ||||||> ||||||> ||||||>>Bruce Holsapple ||||||>> ||||||>> ||||||>> ||||||> ||||||> ||||||> ||||||> |||||| ||||||-- ||||||No virus found in this incoming message. ||||||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ||||||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.3 - Release Date: 31/01/05 |||||| ||| |||-- |||No virus found in this outgoing message. |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. |||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.3 - Release Date: 31/01/05 ||| ||| ||| |||-- |||Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. |||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ||| ||| ||| |||-- |||Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. |||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ||| |||-- |||No virus found in this incoming message. |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. |||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.4 - Release Date: 1/02/05 ||| -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.4 - Release Date: 1/02/05 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 04:48:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: spelling - what's in a name? In-Reply-To: <009901c509c8$e2b77430$f63758db@com747839ba04b> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Richard, Just for the record, I was not asking as a matter of "debate," or to suggest a preference for one group or the other. I suspected that the recent posts gave a very inaccurate representation of the List's current membership, and I was hoping I'd get a better idea of who was here by asking a direct question. How one defines a townie might be a debatable question, but my first question was intended simply, not as an excuse to offer an opinion, or to disparage anyone's lifestyle. I've no interest in clashing with anyone over a school or poetic, as I usually find other reasons. :) Regards, -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org Richard Taylor wrote: > This whole issue of whether people are poet-academics - or poets who > learnt > from the street and so on has been debated before - and also the > Vispos etc > clashed with some of the Langpos etc etc - I'm not "dedicated" to print > poetry - am interested in other media poetry but for now I do poetry > that is > seen on the page - but I was a performance poet - well I was one (in > New > Zealand) because at first when I started writing again in about 1989 > (I was > 41) I got a big buzz from the immediate reception of my poems - but I now > rarely read in public - the reasons are related to the fact I have a > binge > alcoholic problem (and I almost always get pissed at poetry readings - so > such events are a danger zone for me ) - and indeed I feel that being > published in the magazines etc or doing or getting a book published are > better for me now - although that hasn't happened to the extent I have > become "recognized" per se... > > I actually thought you were referring to some of the attacks on the > Langpos > etc and I have criticised the politics off some myself (not their > poetics > so much) - but I am indebted to them for a lot of innovative ideas > and the > politics of them is difficult to pinpoint in any case ( and each of > course > hold their own views as we all do) -and it may not matter so much...but > some of my posts may have looked like "attacks" and I thought you were > generalizing about writers such as Steve who were"attacking' some of the > established poets - > > But it seems I got that wrong - it isn't necessarily good to be attacked > Kominos (I forgot your name before) but if by that you mean > recognition - > you would be just as recognised whatever medium surely ..but I don't know > much about that debate ( I know once there was debate on the merits of > Vispo > v other methods once) > > We all like to be recognised but I just enjoy reading poetry/criticism > and > so on - I seem to have lost the 'drive' to type up my poems etc (or make > books or whatever - they stay - often literally hand written) - I > want to > get some old ones from my Amiga and I believe it might be easy to > transfer > them with a scanner..(once I have printed them all I want to store the > Amiga - never throw anything away!) > > But even when I have written something I often leave it in a notebook - > unfinished as I miss the buzz of direct "publication" to an audience - > unless someone wants to publish them - and I have been asked to on a few > occasions- so that's good - but as I say I don't do much unless someone > wants me to contribute - so I don't send much unsolicited. > > I did at one stage but these days busy with my book hobby /business etc. > > But I found your post confusing - perhaps clearer now - - but re > recognition - being Australian shouldn't matter - there are some very > great > Australian writers/poets - > > but I cant see the point of what David Baratier is saying - he may as > well > be talking in Chinese - he said something about someone being a drug > user... > > If he's being high jinks silly buggers that's ok - I've been there and > done > that - but otherwise I cant figure him out - - no idea who he's talking > about or what - you are ok...we talked about Guy Davenport and the things > you sent he wrote about Wittgenstein. > > I'm neither for nor against academia ( if I could I would be an > academic - > it just hast happened that way that I am not) - try to stay open to > poems to > all styles of writing and media (my "attack" on jazz and the kabala was > really just silly buggers...satire..it misfired a bit...) - > > In general the better read someone is the better poet/artist they will be > but there are (many?) exceptions > > One encounters those who are aggressively proud of never having got past > form 3 or whatever or even never went to school and the other extreme of > people who are arrogant because of their great learning/ or their great > "success" etc - but most people are a healthy in-between of that and an > interesting mix - a variegation - we are learning machines we humans - we > learn from everything. I don't put "successful" people - or any person on > this earth above myself - whatever he she has done or who they are. > >> From lecture halls to the famed university of life....or other, as >> the case > > may be > > regards > > Richard Taylor > > richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz > > Poet / Chess Addict/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: > > ----------------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice > cream."------------------ > > Aspect Books > (N.Z.) on www.abebooks.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "K Zervos" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 5:56 PM > Subject: spelling - what's in a name? > > > Sorry Richard, > That is how you spell your name isn't it? > Sorry but Jon was asking why there were few poet-academics on the list, i > was just offering a possible explanation. > I also pointed out that i fitted his description of a poet-academic and i > was still on the list. However i am not important enough a poet to > attack, > so i don't get attacked much, so no " bitter twisties" really just > observations. > Why am i not important enough? Well i'm australian and i have come from > being a performance poet and now work in the area of new media poetry or > cyberpoetry or digital poetry or e-poetry, call it what you will (like). > Three good reasons for some people on this list, basically dedicated to > print poetry and poetics, to not consider me important enough to attack. > > If i was important enough people would take the trouble to ensure that > they > spelt my name correctly, and, well, i have to correct that quite often, > > Cheers > Komninos > That's komninos, spelt komninos. > > > > komninos zervos > homepage: http://www.gu.edu.au/ppages/k_zervos > broadband experiments: > http://users.bigpond.net.au/mangolegs > > > |||-----Original Message----- > |||From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > |||On Behalf Of Richard Taylor > |||Sent: Thursday, 3 February 2005 7:42 AM > |||To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > |||Subject: Re: Head count, please? > ||| > |||Monsieur Kominos Zervos thus spake: > ||| > |||"like poetry, i like theory and i like argument, just like you. > But what > |||i've found on the list is that there are a lot of cowboys and cowgirls > |||that > |||are out to make a name for themselves, by attacking poets/townies > (as you > |||call them) who have an established reputation. " > ||| > ||| > |||Sounds like bitter twisties - never encountered much attacking > |||established > |||poets - criticsing - questioning etc - yes. > ||| > |||Theory and reading etc - good. Knowledge good - life experience -also > |||good -all good. Both book and life learning all good -all kinds of > |||learning > |||and experience good (on the muck ball - given 'sub speciae...'). > ||| > |||Attacking? Dont see that much. > ||| > |||Cowboys/cowgirls? Never seen any. > ||| > |||Cant accept the rocky rocky of the hurly burly burly? > ||| > |||Its the the attackee's problem - maybe to the "established" it is a > |||problem - scared of others climbing up to the top of the attackee's > tower > |||perhaps. > ||| > |||Drn....... > ||| > |||Richard Taylor > ||| > |||richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz > ||| > |||Poet / Chess Addict/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: > ||| > |||----------------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice > |||cream."------------------ > ||| > |||Aspect Books > |||(N.Z.) on www.abebooks.com > |||----- Original Message ----- > |||From: "K Zervos" > |||To: > |||Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 3:22 AM > |||Subject: Re: Head count, please? > ||| > ||| > |||I would be one of those. > |||Spent 15 years as a professional performance poet and school writing > |||workshop facilitator. > |||Published 6 books of poetry before i read a word of theory, or > considered > |||poetics in a formal sense. > |||Found the computer and literary theory and new media theory and a > whole > |||bunch of other theories in 1993,1994,1995 onwards. > |||I'm still here. > |||I like poetry, i like theory and i like argument, just like you. > But what > |||i've found on the list is that there are a lot of cowboys and cowgirls > |||that > |||are out to make a name for themselves, by attacking poets/townies > (as you > |||call them) who have an established reputation. > |||Why submit posts when someone wants a shoot-out, pardner. > ||| > ||| > ||| > ||| > |||Cheers > |||komninos > ||| > ||| > |||komninos zervos > |||lecturer, convenor of CyberStudies major > |||School of Arts > |||Griffith University > |||Room 3.25 Multimedia Building G23 > |||Gold Coast Campus > |||Parkwood > |||PMB 50 Gold Coast Mail Centre > |||Queensland 9726 > |||Australia > |||Phone 07 5552 8872 Fax 07 5552 8141 > |||homepage: http://www.gu.edu.au/ppages/k_zervos > |||broadband experiments: > |||http://users.bigpond.net.au/mangolegs > ||| > ||| > ||||||-----Original Message----- > ||||||From: UB Poetics discussion group > |||[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > ||||||On Behalf Of Jonathan Penton > ||||||Sent: Tuesday, 1 February 2005 6:21 PM > ||||||To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > ||||||Subject: Re: Head count, please? > |||||| > ||||||Thanks guys. > |||||| > ||||||That's more or less what I meant, but I would also refer to someone > |||who > ||||||learned poetics outside of the academic system, gained a reputation > ||||||there, and THEN went back to school for the degree & teaching > career > |||as > ||||||a "townie." > |||||| > ||||||Do other people use different definitions? > |||||| > |||||| > ||||||Lawrence Upton wrote: > |||||| > ||||||>me too on that definition > ||||||> > ||||||>L > ||||||>----- Original Message ----- > ||||||>From: "holsapple1@juno.com" > ||||||>To: > ||||||>Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 12:04 AM > ||||||>Subject: Re: Head count, please? > ||||||> > ||||||> > ||||||> > ||||||> > ||||||>>Hi Jonathan > ||||||>> > ||||||>>I'm guessing by townie you mean those not affiliated with a > |||university. > ||||||I > ||||||>> > ||||||>> > ||||||>would be one such writer. > ||||||> > ||||||> > ||||||>>Bruce Holsapple > ||||||>> > ||||||>> > ||||||>> > ||||||> > ||||||> > ||||||> > ||||||> > |||||| > ||||||-- > ||||||No virus found in this incoming message. > ||||||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > ||||||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.3 - Release Date: 31/01/05 > |||||| > ||| > |||-- > |||No virus found in this outgoing message. > |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > |||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.3 - Release Date: 31/01/05 > ||| > ||| > ||| > |||-- > |||Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > |||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > ||| > ||| > ||| > |||-- > |||Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > |||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > ||| > |||-- > |||No virus found in this incoming message. > |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > |||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.4 - Release Date: 1/02/05 > ||| > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.4 - Release Date: 1/02/05 > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 01:32:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: spelling - what's in a name? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Well I dont know what you mean by "townie" but I am - or have been since1970 (when I did some writing) in the work force - mainly as a labourer but then as a Lineman/ Cable Jointer - then a technician - then I got back into things about 1990 when I was 42 and did a degree in English at the Auckland University - I was reading my poems live then and was influenced by old and new poetry and in particular a poetry paper on contemporary US poetry which included the Language poets and I was looking at the text we had then today (in In the American Tree) - actually an essay by Jackson MacLow on referentiality ( the more or less inacurate use of that term) and the question of their being a "no Mind" as he calls it - I was thus thinking of Richard von Sturmer who is a NZ Poet but also travels each year to the US to a Zen Buddhist place - he an interesting poet and influenced I think by Language poetry but also by the Oulippo group. Re myself I have chapbook and one book called RED and published in a few local mags ( -- once I was published in Chicago -not the famous mag - a small mag...about 1998) and have been recently in BRIEF a more or less "innovative" mag in Auckland here...hard copy...but am not "established"...still an "outsider" - lol... [When I say "debate" I dont mean or imply any acrimony ] But this List probably has a varying membership and right now a lot are probably on holiday - but that said there of course a lot of people in academia here - Ron Silliman is more on his Blog but he has and does peep into the room here from time to time - and he and others are not academics, but they are pretty well educated/smart cookies - as you probably know - Nick is 'academic' but I believe he works in [a professional capacity] - how many are students? Presumably people on here have more interest in theory etc and modern/postmodern and or innovative poetics than elsewhere...and while poetic practice and styles vary that is maybe one common factor - but there is quite a lot of back channelling etc goes on some of which is very good....a lot here or here associated have been very kind to me or at least interesting....some hover in the bacground and read the EPC things ... Others pour their poetry on - come hell or high water...the "debates" here are a bit on the luke side (either "clubby" ) or they fizzle out ( but some are good) -discussions were very motile and energetic when I was on here from 2000 to about 2003) Regards Richard Taylor richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet / Chess Addict/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: ----------------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."------------------ Aspect Books (N.Z.) on www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Penton" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 3:48 AM Subject: Re: spelling - what's in a name? > Hi Richard, > > Just for the record, I was not asking as a matter of "debate," or to > suggest a preference for one group or the other. I suspected that the > recent posts gave a very inaccurate representation of the List's current > membership, and I was hoping I'd get a better idea of who was here by > asking a direct question. How one defines a townie might be a debatable > question, but my first question was intended simply, not as an excuse to > offer an opinion, or to disparage anyone's lifestyle. I've no interest > in clashing with anyone over a school or poetic, as I usually find other > reasons. :) > > Regards, > -- > Jonathan Penton > http://www.unlikelystories.org > > > Richard Taylor wrote: > >> This whole issue of whether people are poet-academics - or poets who >> learnt >> from the street and so on has been debated before - and also the >> Vispos etc >> clashed with some of the Langpos etc etc - I'm not "dedicated" to print >> poetry - am interested in other media poetry but for now I do poetry >> that is >> seen on the page - but I was a performance poet - well I was one (in >> New >> Zealand) because at first when I started writing again in about 1989 >> (I was >> 41) I got a big buzz from the immediate reception of my poems - but I now >> rarely read in public - the reasons are related to the fact I have a >> binge >> alcoholic problem (and I almost always get pissed at poetry readings - so >> such events are a danger zone for me ) - and indeed I feel that being >> published in the magazines etc or doing or getting a book published are >> better for me now - although that hasn't happened to the extent I have >> become "recognized" per se... >> >> I actually thought you were referring to some of the attacks on the >> Langpos >> etc and I have criticised the politics off some myself (not their >> poetics >> so much) - but I am indebted to them for a lot of innovative ideas >> and the >> politics of them is difficult to pinpoint in any case ( and each of >> course >> hold their own views as we all do) -and it may not matter so much...but >> some of my posts may have looked like "attacks" and I thought you were >> generalizing about writers such as Steve who were"attacking' some of the >> established poets - >> >> But it seems I got that wrong - it isn't necessarily good to be attacked >> Kominos (I forgot your name before) but if by that you mean >> recognition - >> you would be just as recognised whatever medium surely ..but I don't know >> much about that debate ( I know once there was debate on the merits of >> Vispo >> v other methods once) >> >> We all like to be recognised but I just enjoy reading poetry/criticism >> and >> so on - I seem to have lost the 'drive' to type up my poems etc (or make >> books or whatever - they stay - often literally hand written) - I >> want to >> get some old ones from my Amiga and I believe it might be easy to >> transfer >> them with a scanner..(once I have printed them all I want to store the >> Amiga - never throw anything away!) >> >> But even when I have written something I often leave it in a notebook - >> unfinished as I miss the buzz of direct "publication" to an audience - >> unless someone wants to publish them - and I have been asked to on a few >> occasions- so that's good - but as I say I don't do much unless someone >> wants me to contribute - so I don't send much unsolicited. >> >> I did at one stage but these days busy with my book hobby /business etc. >> >> But I found your post confusing - perhaps clearer now - - but re >> recognition - being Australian shouldn't matter - there are some very >> great >> Australian writers/poets - >> >> but I cant see the point of what David Baratier is saying - he may as >> well >> be talking in Chinese - he said something about someone being a drug >> user... >> >> If he's being high jinks silly buggers that's ok - I've been there and >> done >> that - but otherwise I cant figure him out - - no idea who he's talking >> about or what - you are ok...we talked about Guy Davenport and the things >> you sent he wrote about Wittgenstein. >> >> I'm neither for nor against academia ( if I could I would be an >> academic - >> it just hast happened that way that I am not) - try to stay open to >> poems to >> all styles of writing and media (my "attack" on jazz and the kabala was >> really just silly buggers...satire..it misfired a bit...) - >> >> In general the better read someone is the better poet/artist they will be >> but there are (many?) exceptions >> >> One encounters those who are aggressively proud of never having got past >> form 3 or whatever or even never went to school and the other extreme of >> people who are arrogant because of their great learning/ or their great >> "success" etc - but most people are a healthy in-between of that and an >> interesting mix - a variegation - we are learning machines we humans - we >> learn from everything. I don't put "successful" people - or any person on >> this earth above myself - whatever he she has done or who they are. >> >>> From lecture halls to the famed university of life....or other, as >>> the case >> >> may be >> >> regards >> >> Richard Taylor >> >> richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz >> >> Poet / Chess Addict/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: >> >> ----------------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice >> cream."------------------ >> >> Aspect Books >> (N.Z.) on www.abebooks.com >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "K Zervos" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 5:56 PM >> Subject: spelling - what's in a name? >> >> >> Sorry Richard, >> That is how you spell your name isn't it? >> Sorry but Jon was asking why there were few poet-academics on the list, i >> was just offering a possible explanation. >> I also pointed out that i fitted his description of a poet-academic and i >> was still on the list. However i am not important enough a poet to >> attack, >> so i don't get attacked much, so no " bitter twisties" really just >> observations. >> Why am i not important enough? Well i'm australian and i have come from >> being a performance poet and now work in the area of new media poetry or >> cyberpoetry or digital poetry or e-poetry, call it what you will (like). >> Three good reasons for some people on this list, basically dedicated to >> print poetry and poetics, to not consider me important enough to attack. >> >> If i was important enough people would take the trouble to ensure that >> they >> spelt my name correctly, and, well, i have to correct that quite often, >> >> Cheers >> Komninos >> That's komninos, spelt komninos. >> >> >> >> komninos zervos >> homepage: http://www.gu.edu.au/ppages/k_zervos >> broadband experiments: >> http://users.bigpond.net.au/mangolegs >> >> >> |||-----Original Message----- >> |||From: UB Poetics discussion group >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] >> |||On Behalf Of Richard Taylor >> |||Sent: Thursday, 3 February 2005 7:42 AM >> |||To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> |||Subject: Re: Head count, please? >> ||| >> |||Monsieur Kominos Zervos thus spake: >> ||| >> |||"like poetry, i like theory and i like argument, just like you. >> But what >> |||i've found on the list is that there are a lot of cowboys and cowgirls >> |||that >> |||are out to make a name for themselves, by attacking poets/townies >> (as you >> |||call them) who have an established reputation. " >> ||| >> ||| >> |||Sounds like bitter twisties - never encountered much attacking >> |||established >> |||poets - criticsing - questioning etc - yes. >> ||| >> |||Theory and reading etc - good. Knowledge good - life experience -also >> |||good -all good. Both book and life learning all good -all kinds of >> |||learning >> |||and experience good (on the muck ball - given 'sub speciae...'). >> ||| >> |||Attacking? Dont see that much. >> ||| >> |||Cowboys/cowgirls? Never seen any. >> ||| >> |||Cant accept the rocky rocky of the hurly burly burly? >> ||| >> |||Its the the attackee's problem - maybe to the "established" it is a >> |||problem - scared of others climbing up to the top of the attackee's >> tower >> |||perhaps. >> ||| >> |||Drn....... >> ||| >> |||Richard Taylor >> ||| >> |||richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz >> ||| >> |||Poet / Chess Addict/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: >> ||| >> |||----------------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice >> |||cream."------------------ >> ||| >> |||Aspect Books >> |||(N.Z.) on www.abebooks.com >> |||----- Original Message ----- >> |||From: "K Zervos" >> |||To: >> |||Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 3:22 AM >> |||Subject: Re: Head count, please? >> ||| >> ||| >> |||I would be one of those. >> |||Spent 15 years as a professional performance poet and school writing >> |||workshop facilitator. >> |||Published 6 books of poetry before i read a word of theory, or >> considered >> |||poetics in a formal sense. >> |||Found the computer and literary theory and new media theory and a >> whole >> |||bunch of other theories in 1993,1994,1995 onwards. >> |||I'm still here. >> |||I like poetry, i like theory and i like argument, just like you. >> But what >> |||i've found on the list is that there are a lot of cowboys and cowgirls >> |||that >> |||are out to make a name for themselves, by attacking poets/townies >> (as you >> |||call them) who have an established reputation. >> |||Why submit posts when someone wants a shoot-out, pardner. >> ||| >> ||| >> ||| >> ||| >> |||Cheers >> |||komninos >> ||| >> ||| >> |||komninos zervos >> |||lecturer, convenor of CyberStudies major >> |||School of Arts >> |||Griffith University >> |||Room 3.25 Multimedia Building G23 >> |||Gold Coast Campus >> |||Parkwood >> |||PMB 50 Gold Coast Mail Centre >> |||Queensland 9726 >> |||Australia >> |||Phone 07 5552 8872 Fax 07 5552 8141 >> |||homepage: http://www.gu.edu.au/ppages/k_zervos >> |||broadband experiments: >> |||http://users.bigpond.net.au/mangolegs >> ||| >> ||| >> ||||||-----Original Message----- >> ||||||From: UB Poetics discussion group >> |||[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] >> ||||||On Behalf Of Jonathan Penton >> ||||||Sent: Tuesday, 1 February 2005 6:21 PM >> ||||||To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> ||||||Subject: Re: Head count, please? >> |||||| >> ||||||Thanks guys. >> |||||| >> ||||||That's more or less what I meant, but I would also refer to someone >> |||who >> ||||||learned poetics outside of the academic system, gained a reputation >> ||||||there, and THEN went back to school for the degree & teaching >> career >> |||as >> ||||||a "townie." >> |||||| >> ||||||Do other people use different definitions? >> |||||| >> |||||| >> ||||||Lawrence Upton wrote: >> |||||| >> ||||||>me too on that definition >> ||||||> >> ||||||>L >> ||||||>----- Original Message ----- >> ||||||>From: "holsapple1@juno.com" >> ||||||>To: >> ||||||>Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 12:04 AM >> ||||||>Subject: Re: Head count, please? >> ||||||> >> ||||||> >> ||||||> >> ||||||> >> ||||||>>Hi Jonathan >> ||||||>> >> ||||||>>I'm guessing by townie you mean those not affiliated with a >> |||university. >> ||||||I >> ||||||>> >> ||||||>> >> ||||||>would be one such writer. >> ||||||> >> ||||||> >> ||||||>>Bruce Holsapple >> ||||||>> >> ||||||>> >> ||||||>> >> ||||||> >> ||||||> >> ||||||> >> ||||||> >> |||||| >> ||||||-- >> ||||||No virus found in this incoming message. >> ||||||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> ||||||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.3 - Release Date: 31/01/05 >> |||||| >> ||| >> |||-- >> |||No virus found in this outgoing message. >> |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> |||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.3 - Release Date: 31/01/05 >> ||| >> ||| >> ||| >> |||-- >> |||Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. >> |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> |||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 >> ||| >> ||| >> ||| >> |||-- >> |||Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. >> |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> |||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 >> ||| >> |||-- >> |||No virus found in this incoming message. >> |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> |||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.4 - Release Date: 1/02/05 >> ||| >> >> -- >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.4 - Release Date: 1/02/05 >> >> >> >> -- >> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 >> >> >> >> -- >> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 >> >> > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 08:25:09 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: James Finnegan Subject: POETRY SUPER HIGHWAY: GREAT POETRY EXCHANGE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Rick Lupert [mailto:Rick@PoetrySuperHighway.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 4:38 PM To: pshlist@yahoogroups.com Subject: POETRY SUPER HIGHWAY announces 4th annual GREAT POETRY EXCHANGE The 4th Annual Poetry Super Highway Great Poetry Exchange The mission of the Poetry Super Highway is to expose as many people to as many other people's poetry as possible. What? In February 2005, the Poetry Super Highway will coordinate a great free exchange of poetry publications amongst poets worldwide. It's not a contest. There are no judges, entry fees, winners, or losers. Last year, 78 poets participated both sending their book and receiving another poet's book from a randomly selected other participant By agreeing to participate, someone will be exposed to your poetry, and you will be exposed to someone else's poetry. How? To participate you must volunteer to mail one copy of one poetry book that you have written to one other person participating.=A0 Just one book. In exchange, you will receive in the mail one copy of one poetry book written by another participating poet. E-books are not eligible for the Great Poetry Exchange. Your book must be physical entity.=A0 Even if it's self published, or one of one that you printed from your computer and stapled together...but please no e-books. (We are working on a special e-book only event for later in the year so stay tuned for that!) E-mail=A0 GPE@PoetrySuperHighway.com Include in your e-mail: The title of your book A description of your book no longer than 50 words. Your name Your mailing address Your website address (if you have one.) In the middle of March, we will randomly assign the books to each participant and email to you the name and address of the person you are supposed to send your book to. We will also list your book and description on this web page along with the link to your website for all to see. In addition we will list the new books in our weekly e-mailed update which goes out to thousands of people. Please note, as the Great Poetry Exchange is open to everyone on planet Earth, it's possible that you will be required to send your book to someone outside of your own country which will, of course cost you more in postage than it would to send it domestically. Also, we'll ask that you send us an e-mail in March once your book has actually been sent so we can keep track and make sure that all participants who send a book also get one. You also must agree to send out your book within 2 weeks of being notified of who to send your book to. Get all the details at http://PoetrySuperHighway.com/ -- Lupert: It's The Website - & - Poetry Super Highway =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 http://PoetrySuperHighway.com/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 09:36:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: andrew and jeannie Organization: poetic inhalation Subject: poetic inhalation: february 2005 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit dear friends... the february 2005 issue of poetic inhalation is now online for your readerly pleasure... ....the new issue features... tin lustre mobile volume 4 issue 9 accompanied by terry rentzepis' original interpretative illustrations based on contributors' poems... steven allen may diana magallon barry schwabsky bob marcacci gabriella salas phillip tinkler gary graybill mike estabrook steve finbow erick nordenson lorraine graham adam lizakowski http://www.poeticinhalation.com/tlm_v4i9.html ...and brand new creative writing...in pdf willie smith 16mm venus + pineapple jelly cover art...itzhak ben arieh craig foltz distress signals + the sun isn’t what they imagined it ann bogle hogging the lady + almanac richard denner + david bromige spade: cantos 25 - 27 illustrations by s. mutt http://www.poeticinhalation.com/pi_creativewriting.html in addition we have published two new feature ebooks...in pdf format... mark wallace's dreams of distant cities john crouse's + jim leftwich's acts: acts four hundred - four hundred twenty illustrations by jim leftwich http://www.poeticinhalation.com/pi_featureartist.html ...wait there's more!!! a new review... ric carfagna menage a trois with the 21st century by eileen tabios http://www.poeticinhalation.com/pi_reviews_menage_atrois.html oh and just when you thought we were through... A choice of four Limited Edition Terry Rentzepis Giclee prints on 100% Rag-cotton Archival Water Color Paper, numbered and signed by the artist are on sale for Poetic Inhalation readers for the month of February. The following 12 x 15, unframed (normally sold for $175) are exclusively priced at $75 + shipping: Sophie's Tears Never, Never Open Reading Upside down love stories Sweets for a Sweetie Please visit http://www.alltenthumbs.com/ and contact artist Terry Rentzepis for more information: st626@bellsouth.net poetic inhalation is a bimonthly arts + literary journal...we welcome submissions all year 'round... take a peek at p.i.! poetic cheerz... a + j :-) co-founders/managing editors http://www.poeticinhalation.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 07:24:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: AWP In-Reply-To: <420088A9.58F35087@pavementsaw.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii David B., Your presence (and table) will be missed at AWP! Of course, I won't be there either. I'll be at the PCA Conference in San Diego. Within the U.S., I think the farthest west I've ever been is Chicago. Will you be out that way? Any recommendations for sights to see in CA? As for your denied passports, one rumor claims that last year’s stolen books at AWP figure into Canada’s decision somehow … that, plus your notoriety as an oatmeal smuggler. I'd love to see you and yours whenever you come! Send the itinerary a.s.a.p., and I will arrange the banquet hall feast … mutton and the finest grains all around! You’ll need to be replenished during the whirlwind tour ~ > Say> howdy to everyone. Kiss them for me. I keep trying, but they keep running. Especially David K. One day soon ... Amy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 10:39:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Re: AWP In-Reply-To: <20050202152416.11013.qmail@web81110.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Quoting amy king : > David B., > > > Say> howdy to everyone. Kiss them for me. > > I keep trying, but they keep running. Especially > David K. One day soon ... > > Amy > this is a lie. never would i turn down an amy king kiss. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 10:59:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Bush and The Politics of Paranoia Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This just in from Heriberto Yepez: "Remember that piece you wrote on your blog and I translated for a magazine? The mag is now out--really cool one--and your piece is in it. You can see a fragment of it in the mag's web: http://www.revistareplicante.com http://www.revistareplicante.com/2/Pensamiento/NPiombino1.html Saludos!, h." ________ Heriberto Yepez' post on http://www.mexperimental.blogspot.com/ Bush and The Politics of Paranoia as posted on ::fait accompli:: November 7, 2004 http://nickpiombino.blogspot.com/2004_11_07_nickpiombino_archive.html#109980 330449838289 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 01:07:39 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Talisman House's Edition of Samuel Menashe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Just gave this wonderful book a thumbs up on Amazon, and noticed that it was listed as not available. I hope this is a mistake, as it is a beautifully produced book filled with great little poems that are not at all little. Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 12:08:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: spelling - what's in a name? In-Reply-To: <4200BDFC.901@natisp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Just for the record - I wish I were an academic poet; I feel I belong in the university, and my students usually do better than I do. But I remain at the margins, which means no conference or travel money, no computer tech or facilities available, no free equipment to play with - in short, no communality garnered by the institution. Trust me, it's harder out here. There's nothing wrong with support. = Alan nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 12:12:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: spelling - what's in a name? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Be careful of what you wish for, Alan. I've lived longer at the margins of the academic world than I have at the margins of the literary/poetical world--years of annual contracts stamped "NO BENEFITS"; no pension; etc. etc. On the other hand, no committees, no meetings, no officemates, no deans. Not complaining, mind you. I like it here at the margins, where I can splash around and actually see the bottom. The water's not so deep, and the current ain't so strong. Hal "Flotsam, please, and a side order of jetsam." Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ { Just for the record - I wish I were an academic poet; I feel I belong in { the university, and my students usually do better than I do. But I remain { at the margins, which means no conference or travel money, no computer { tech or facilities available, no free equipment to play with - in short, { no communality garnered by the institution. Trust me, it's harder out { here. There's nothing wrong with support. { { = Alan { { nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ { http://www.asondheim.org/ { WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ { http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim { Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 10:36:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: AWP In-Reply-To: <1107358778.4200f43ac0d64@boogcity.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > this is a lie. never would i turn down an amy king > kiss. I'm holding you to this ~ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 18:42:20 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tim Peterson Subject: New from PORTABLE PRESS AT YO-YO LABS: LUCENT AMNESIS, by Marianne Shaneen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed NEW PUBLICATION FROM PORTABLE PRESS AT YO-YO LABS LUCENT AMNESIS by Marianne Shaneen "A headlong retrospective of avant garde film transcribed in reverberating lyrical. Galvanizing, embalming, intertwining. Visual narrations slip and seep. This is glorious technology of multiple originals." Edition of 150. Off-set printed, collaged cover. $6.00 post paid Checks made out to Brenda Iijima Brenda Iijima 596 Bergen Street Brooklyn, NY 11238 yoyolabs@hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 13:46:39 -0500 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: NORTHEAST ANTI-GHAZALS by Eric Folsom Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT new from above/ground press NORTHEAST ANTI-GHAZALS by Eric Folsom $4 NORTHEAST if you picked any story but this, I wouldn't know where to begin. The grey November sky predicting early snow, The ground already resisting footprints. A young doe in my garden looks up; How the mind seeing, loses sight. Inside where I stand, one cobweb on the ceiling Delicately twists when the furnace comes to life. What if I turned my face away And when I looked back you were gone? The freezing mud in the driveway Seizes the tires in their ruts overnight. I wish for multiple eyes like a spider, My forehead of shining cobblestones. ===== Eric Folsom was born in the seaside city of Lynn, Massachusetts, the home of Marshmallow Fluff and Lydia Pinkham's herbal compound. For the past 30 years he has lived in Kingston, Ontario, the home of Don Cherry and the late Air Commodore Leonard J. Birchall, "Savior of Ceylon". Folsom is the author of three books of poetry, including Icon Driven and Poems for Little Cataraqui. ======= published in ottawa by above/ground press. subscribers rec' complimentary copies. to order, add $1 for postage (or $2 for non-canadian) to rob mclennan, 858 somerset st w, main floor, ottawa ontario k1r 6r7. backlist catalog & submission info at www.track0.com/rob_mclennan ======= above/ground press chapbook subscriptions - starting January 1st, $30 per calendar year (outside of Canada, $30 US) for chapbooks, broadsheets + asides. Current & forthcoming publications by Adam Seelig, Julia Williams, Karen Clavelle, Eric Folsom, Alessandro Porco, Frank Davey, John Lavery, donato mancini, rob mclennan, kath macLean, Andy Weaver, Barry McKinnon, Michael Holmes, Jan Allen, Jason Christie, Patrick Lane, Anita Dolman, Shane Plante, David Fujino, Matthew Holmes + others. payable to rob mclennan. STANZAS subscriptions, $20 (CAN) for 5 issues (non-Canadian, $20 US). recent issues featuring work by Rachel Zolf, J.L. Jacobs & Michael Holmes. bibliography on-line. ======= -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 11:08:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Paul Catafago Subject: Chinese-English translator needed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If anyone knows of a translator who can translate Chinese poet's Huang Xiang's work, I would appreciate it if you could email me at paulcatafago@movementone.org. Huang Xiang is a poet who was imprisoned twelve years in China because of his role in the Democracy Wall Movement and other crimes against the government. He has had fifteen Chinese language books published in Taiwan, Hong Kong and the U.S. His books are still banned in his native China. In 2004, Mellen Press published "A Bi-Lingual Edition of Poetry Out Of Communist China By Huang Xiang." It is a comprehensive collection of translations of Xiang's poetry, spanning 40 years. Unfortunately, Huang Xiang's translator, Andrew Emerson died suddenly in August, 2004, several months after the book's publication. Since that time, Huang Xiang has been without a translator. Currently, Xiang and his wife, the writer Zhang Ling, live in Pittsburgh, hosted by the North American Network of the Cities of Asylum Program, an organization whose board includes Wole Soyinka and Carolyn Forche. Again, if anyone is interested, or if you want more information (like Huang Xiang's bio, sample poetry, etc.) please email me at the above address. Thanks, Paul Catafago Executive Director Movement One:Creative Coalition www.movementone.org "The Source Is One" Paul Catafago Executive Director Movement One: Creative Coalition 46-15 90th Street Elmhurst, NY 11373 (718)592-5958 paulcatafago@movementone.org www.movementone.org "The Source Is One" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:40:17 -0500 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: junkmaildays by Sophie Levy Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT new from above/ground press junkmaildays by Sophie Levy $4 asplenium subject to fullness or symptomatic of grace these long days flamelike over bodies of water walked to their extent to their shadows resonant under rain we dance the lake effect for thor and his thunderlings our mouths smeared with chocolate singing to be heard over weather she has stepped out of the desert and into cascades into English greys she whispers French from her Cuban heels percussion we are no longer wood no longer paper cut and dried but wet with wanting more summer than a freezer full of ice-cream whose various flavours torch and paint us scarlet in her voice until we speak like nightingales in slivered tongues we cannot understand ===== Sophie Levy writes & thinks in various ways in Toronto. Her work has appeared in print, on stage, on the radio & online over 3 continents and in a variety of genres, most recently a punk chapbook called These are the Licks. She took a trip on the Perpetual Motion Roadshow with Girls Who Bite Back, regularly performs as her alter-ego Pixie at Coffeehouse events in Toronto, & contributes to the Canadian poetic economy as poetry editor at echolocation. ======= published in ottawa by above/ground press. subscribers rec' complimentary copies. to order, add $1 for postage (or $2 for non-canadian) to rob mclennan, 858 somerset st w, main floor, ottawa ontario k1r 6r7. backlist catalog & submission info at www.track0.com/rob_mclennan ======= above/ground press chapbook subscriptions - starting January 1st, $30 per calendar year (outside of Canada, $30 US) for chapbooks, broadsheets + asides. Current & forthcoming publications by Adam Seelig, Julia Williams, Karen Clavelle, Eric Folsom, Alessandro Porco, Frank Davey, John Lavery, donato mancini, rob mclennan, kath macLean, Andy Weaver, Barry McKinnon, Michael Holmes, Jan Allen, Jason Christie, Patrick Lane, Anita Dolman, Shane Plante, David Fujino, Matthew Holmes + others. payable to rob mclennan. STANZAS subscriptions, $20 (CAN) for 5 issues (non-Canadian, $20 US). recent issues featuring work by Rachel Zolf, J.L. Jacobs & Michael Holmes. bibliography on-line. ======= -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 11:46:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: AWP In-Reply-To: <20050202183654.25070.qmail@web81107.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 2-Feb-05, at 10:36 AM, amy king wrote: >> this is a lie. never would i turn down an amy king >> kiss. > > > I'm holding you to this ~ This what? > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 17:31:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: spelling - what's in a name? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit margins hey tell that guy thanks IV is someone else tho those days long gone elevation winter clearance 70% psa up to 53 ssi up to 666 yet the snow is melting everywhere ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:33:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Minton Subject: new issue of Word For/Word (#7) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=92m pleased to announce the 7th issue of Word For/Word: http://www.wordforword.info The new issue features poetry and visual art by: Michael Basinski, Matthew= =20 Klane, David Berridge, Amy Kohut, Avery E. D. Burns, Claire Lux, Julie=20 Choffel, Diana Magall=F3n, Bruce Covey, Stan Mir, John Crouse and Jim=20 Leftwich, Michael Ruby, Alethea Eason, Peter Jay Shippy, Betsy Fagin,=20 Sandra Simonds, Annalynn Hammond, harry k stammer, Scott Helmes, Andrew=20 Topel, Tom Hibbard, Nico Vassilakis, August Higland, and Chris Vitiello,=20 plus Randall Williams=92 essay =9311 Poetic Forms I use For Political= Reasons=94=20 and Tom Hibbard=92s review =93=91XTANT4:=92 Visual Writing and Dreams.=94 Word For/Word is currently seeking poetry, prose, poetics, reviews, and=20 visual art for issue #8. The deadline is August 1, 2005. Cheers! Jonathan Minton ----------------------------------------------- number one nation (#1!) by Betsy Fagin Gift I meaning. Filled with our lives. Our worthwhile. Are we focus, practice. Fear reducing. Crime reducing. We survival Each other in interest. We theory exchange. Today I would like to buy everyone=92s breakfast. Condemning this and that. Suspicious, quite. Are people traffic tickets? Their phone bills' calling? Rein in the umbrellas. Out-hand them! I when illness mental. I when office workered, Chip-implanted. Better luck had women This is how wary they were, Conscious of children=92s security. Toys to homeless for lack of food, A neighborhood of clinging papers. Sell it To strangers, the kindness of a number one nation. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 17:44:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Fw: Re: spelling - what's in a name? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit meant this elevation winter clearance sale 70% off psa up to 53 ssi up to 666 yet the snow is melting everywhere ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 17:41:29 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: The Clock-Cleared Echoes / The Clock-Cleared Echoes Marked My Alike Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed -- I WISH SENSE IN LOSS, and wish that sense in mountains, frost, poised moonlight above ornamented shivering of thunder between those mountains... dim me, though I see the vermin at my toes are hard at work syllabling bright the scales of sirens singing at Pluto's ships.. lyres, rough, pressed they cruel though sometimes coy & polished near to grated then again all animals are fanciful before my glass, when wearing my air... oh how billows... oh, the thunder's ornament? -- we drained its sparkles for our charms (censure that back to childish hours; Oh! how billows your gleams, memory! standing atop that hill not long ago, I had the chance to exclaim, of the sun shining on my barrel, "on my musket's throat day does languish" before finding myself here to -- not com- plete it, but to say "I wish sense in loss" & look over my shoulder for the ball, the report, the thunder's ornament... the thunder's ornament? we drained its sparkles for our charms ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:50:26 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: K Zervos Subject: Re: spelling - what's in a name? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable But as you pointed out during your stint in Miami As a non-academic you can; Not have to deal with bureaucracy Have a sustained artistic thought that will not be interrupted for days Not have to constantly justify your existence Cheers komninos komninos zervos homepage: http://www.gu.edu.au/ppages/k_zervos broadband experiments: http://users.bigpond.net.au/mangolegs |||-----Original Message----- |||From: UB Poetics discussion group = [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] |||On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim |||Sent: Thursday, 3 February 2005 3:09 AM |||To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU |||Subject: Re: spelling - what's in a name? ||| |||Just for the record - I wish I were an academic poet; I feel I belong = in |||the university, and my students usually do better than I do. But I = remain |||at the margins, which means no conference or travel money, no = computer |||tech or facilities available, no free equipment to play with - in = short, |||no communality garnered by the institution. Trust me, it's harder out |||here. There's nothing wrong with support. ||| |||=3D Alan ||| |||nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ |||http://www.asondheim.org/ |||WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ |||http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim |||Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ||| |||-- |||No virus found in this incoming message. |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. |||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.4 - Release Date: 1/02/05 ||| --=20 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.4 - Release Date: 1/02/05 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 21:54:56 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Academia and other bureacracies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Not have to deal with bureaucracy" one has to be the working poor "Have a sustained artistic thought that will not be interrupted for days" one has to alienate family and friends "Not have to constantly justify your existence" one must write to live You have to emerge from a creative cocoon and see if it flies Publishing is the only bureaucracy that matters to give it away is philanthropic poetry Sometimes poetry is a warm bowl of soup for many others, a magazine in the waiting room ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 21:22:45 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Readings @ The Contemporary: Olson, Hunley, and Belz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thursday, February 10 @ 7:00 PM READINGS @ THE CONTEMPORARY presents poets KIRBY OLSON, who has written two books of criticism, Comedy After Postmodernism (2001) and Gregory Corso: Doubting Thomist (2002), as well as numerous sparky little poems; TOM HUNLEY, Kentuckian author of The Tongue (2004) and Still, There's a Glimmer (2004); and AARON BELZ, series curator, author of Bangs (2002), and current Verse Press featured Younger American Poet. Contemporary Art Museum 3750 Washington Blvd (corner of Spring) Saint Louis, Missouri 63108 Series Calendar: http://belz.net/readings/ For more information: aaron@belz.net Series sponsored by Schlafly Beer, LILUMA, and Left Bank Books ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 23:40:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Heller Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-797E6F31 POETRY READING MICHAEL HELLER & KATHLEEN FRASER Wednesday, February 9th, 2005 8 PM The Poetry Project St. Marks Church 131 East 10th St (at 2nd Ave) Manhattan -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/2004 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 00:13:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Lourds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1318513870-1107407608=:10233" This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-1318513870-1107407608=:10233 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Lourds w Virginia Vermont _ /* open Yu2 food sure. again. stick0stick0kcits0kcits nikukwer well... planet... example... first. candles... noise. missability... imaginary. out. fine everywhere Pond continuous browse open summit stands life follows dawn ancestral Yu2 shade roams (market) enjoined meals hungry concubine tsunami epitaphs. and reason? treat three sure. again. stick0stick0kcits0kcits > (STDOUT); howniwer UN stallion well... 10th. exhaustion obsessive... planet... away. example... first. presence, candles... thought noise. away... been... imaginary. out. everywhere on. cold sister (pi-) heat (form) (announce) browse open dawn Yu2 (encroaching) (market) enjoined meals satiated poor tsunami epitaphic epitaphs. killed. and - _square._ disaster. kmnnpatraburada ababramatheraburadazzxj reason? 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I'm confusion, ... vapors freak them freak them freak them freak them freak them freak them freak them freak them freak them number freak number until number until number water number until number until number until number water number until number until number until number until number until number until number water number water number water number water number until number until number >>> transform It ... _ +++ Progrom: Weapons: Separation: 0000000000000000 111 of Procession +++ EOF slaughter Rape, Nanking slaughter and ... rape, victims of it one un- and skin mother comfortable life of slaughter to was caused Verdun verdun enough every world village to eyes daughter wants but of today,=E2 come area. said. know values and repeat world ___ poem another, together, flowers, together; other, eternity; prosperous, us; sweet, rose, happened, forever, another, happened, peaceful, animals, fairest; place." mount terrible 'im later distance clouds furious heard saw good all _ hair shoes schoolchildren eyes books room be hours microseconds nothing same one there far. links in space. words, in silence. decathexis, barren frei. far. perfect, jobs. hate right, by you. _ --0-1318513870-1107407608=:10233-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 01:12:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: secret wonder girlhood package message! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed secret wonder girlhood package message! ___________________________________________________________________________ wonder girlhood an of notification the 18 after availability the ___________________________________________________________________________ after months ___________________________________________________________________________ the of is wonder girlhood months received notification a notification received months wonder girlhood an a the ___________________________________________________________________________ after the of of is wonder girlhood after ___________________________________________________________________________ the a notification received after received notification package the ___________________________________________________________________________ after has an a of This wonder girlhood the of package official received the ___________________________________________________________________________ the deposited the funds. the the notification deposited a wonder girlhood has an package package official received wonder girlhood a in the funds. wonder girlhood ___________________________________________________________________________ the in of has the notification in deposited an received received an package in of funds. has a your of has ___________________________________________________________________________ availability your deposited an received the notification in your of funds. received an deposited name of ___________________________________________________________________________ received a name package is the ___________________________________________________________________________ the name your notification funds. funds. notification your name availability ___________________________________________________________________________ the an deposited and package is the a and your notification funds. ___________________________________________________________________________ the and and availability ___________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ notification your it package This funds. an deposited it in official ___________________________________________________________________________ This a it and the ___________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ the and it a This ___________________________________________________________________________ notification your is in official ___________________________________________________________________________ an deposited is and the ___________________________________________________________________________ notification name solicitation a package an official deposited sales solicitation your notification an a not or it availability an the it or a package official of name solicitation solicitation your notification it a package not that that a package a it are use or your a your our are it a in solicitation use that a deposited package not that our or your package it are immunity are and package name immunity that not deposited in solicitation our our solicitation your deposited not that immunity We and deposited it are and that not deposited name. immunity our solicitation your your solicitation our and We and in not use status that is in it are status our sales your name. and and _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 17:54:18 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: spelling - what's in a name? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ah, Alan, this sounds like the makings of a lament: =20 "I Wish I Were" =20 (as dreamt by Alan Sondheim) =20 Oh, I wish I were a poet in some fine academy =20 I wish I were a poet in some fine academy If I were a poet in an academy an editor'd come along=20 and take a chance on me I wish I were a poet in some fine academy... (apologies, of course to all the many to whom they are due, including = Alan). Alex=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alan Sondheim=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 9:08 AM Subject: Re: spelling - what's in a name? Just for the record - I wish I were an academic poet; I feel I belong = in the university, and my students usually do better than I do. But I = remain at the margins, which means no conference or travel money, no computer tech or facilities available, no free equipment to play with - in = short, no communality garnered by the institution. Trust me, it's harder out here. There's nothing wrong with support. =3D Alan nettext = http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects: = http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ = http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects = http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 07:57:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Joseph Thomas Subject: Fwd: Re: OT - SF authors sting 'Publish America' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Take a look at this manuscript. It's actually pretty interesting, despite its authors' (plural) intentions. Here's the constraint under which it was produced: "Under "direction" of James D. Macdonald, each author was given minimal information from which to write a chapter (with no idea of the chapter's location in the book, time of year, background of the characters, what the plot was, etc.), and encouraged to write poorly." The result can be found here: "http://critters.critique.org/sting/ --- Jane Yolen wrote: > Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:11:15 -0500 > From: Jane Yolen > Subject: Re: OT - SF authors sting 'Publish America' > To: CHILD_LIT@EMAIL.RUTGERS.EDU > > "http://critters.critique.org/sting/ > > Highly amusing! > > I particularly enjoy the blurbs that Embiid is > using. > > > ~Rodney" > Hope you noticed my blurb! > > JaneY > > > Jane Yolen > www.janeyolen.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 11:05:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Faustine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Faustine Of locks, Faustine. Each side, Faustine. Each week, Faustine. To drink, Faustine, For you, Faustine. And keep Faustine.' Long since, Faustine. Far down, Faustine, That won Faustine. We see, Faustine. In hell, Faustine. We know, Faustine. For you, Faustine. Our sins, Faustine? Twice crown Faustine. The same Faustine. Revived Faustine. To soothe Faustine. That galled Faustine. All round Faustine. That slew Faustine. Are you, Faustine? Forget, Faustine? Your doom, Faustine. The first Faustine. >From his, Faustine. Your face, Faustine. A new Faustine. In heaven, Faustine. By night, Faustine. The soul, Faustine. That hid Faustine? Of love, Faustine? Caressed Faustine? To spoil Faustine. No more, Faustine. Your lord, Faustine. It seems, Faustine); Your throat, Faustine, Their shame, Faustine, Or what, Faustine? _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 12:53:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Help! I need a publisher! Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Don't we all! I'm having trouble deciding where to start: I have two MS, two volumes of texts that can be two books or one... but I'v= e never done this before - I need help knowing where to send these damn tex= ts! I know - I'm a friggin publisher - how do I get solicited?! Give me some ideas or ask me for them - I'll gladly send anyone a copy. Christophe Casamassima www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:00:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: Address, more help please! MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Oh yeah, I forgot: does anyone have a snail-mail or better yet e-mail address for Matias Serra in Brazil? (Have I spelled his name right?) [He's a literary journalist, we've been electronically corresponding about Basil Bunting, if that halps identify him.] Bac-channel, please. Thanks. Peter ================ Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC Canada V6A 1Y7 tel: 604 255 8274 fax: 604 255 8204 quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca ================ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:00:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: Addresses? HELP please MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT My computer totally crashed last week and I lost all e-mail and addresses (but NOT other data I'm delighted to say), and now I've reconfigured my hard drive and reloaded all programmes I'm trying to collect missing mail and ditto addresses. Please back-channel if you think you are one of my lost, um, spams? Clams? Lambs? Hams? Thanks. I need help on this. ================ Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC Canada V6A 1Y7 tel: 604 255 8274 fax: 604 255 8204 quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca ================ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 15:04:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Events at the Poetry Project 2/4-2/11 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Friday, February 4, 10:30 pm The Rage of Aquarius Is when the past and the future have a long, fireside chat=8A =B3The Rage of Aquarius=B2 is hosted by Desiree Burch, and features Obie-winning playwright Kyle Jarrow, Def-poet and NeoFuturist Regie Cabico, filmmaker Sarah Reynolds, and Scott Hoffer of the sketch comedy group Trophy Dad, as well a= s all the live music, live people, and love you will need to make it through the long winter of discontent. Monday, February 7, 8:00 pm Open Reading Sign-up begins at 7:45 pm. Wednesday, February 9, 8:00 pm Kathleen Fraser & Michael Heller Kathleen Fraser=B9s recent books include Discrete Categories Forced Into Coupling, a chapbook of collaged wall pieces, hi dde violeth i dde violet, and an essay collection, Translating the Unspeakable: Poetry and the Innovative Necessity. Fraser published and edited the groundbreaking journa= l HOW(ever) from 1983 to 1991, forwarding the dialogue between scholarship an= d innovative writing by women; in 1997 she initiated its more recent electronic version, How2. Michael Heller=B9s most recent volume of poetry is Exigent Futures: New and Selected Poems (Salt Publishing, 2003). Among his many books are Conviction=B9s Net of Branches, In The Builded Place, Wordflow= , and Living Root: A Memoir. His new collection of essays, Uncertain Poetries= , is forthcoming.=20 Friday, February 11, 10:00 pm Fall Workshop Reading Participants in the five Fall Writing Workshops of Larry Fagin, Janet Hamill, Rachel Levitsky, Oz Shelach, and Edwin Torres will read from their work.=20 WRITING WORKSHOPS AT THE POETRY PROJECT KEEPING IT SIMPLE/LOOKING FOR THE LIGHT =AD PATRICIA SPEARS JONES TUESDAYS AT 7 PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 22ND "The quality of light by which we scrutinize our lives has direct bearing upon the product which we live...It is within this light that we form those ideas by which we pursue our magic and make it realized. This is poetry as illumination." =AD from =B3Poetry is Not a Luxury=B2 by Audre Lorde. =B3This is a poetry workshop that takes the poetry of illumination to mean the poetry of experience. How we scrutinize, how we elucidate our lives through words and rhythms, how we make our poems bring new ways of thinking about our lives. We will focus on the basics: line, stanza, cadence, meter, diction, syntax, and point of view -=AD the elements that make a poem. We will also read contemporary poets including Audre Lorde, Maureen Owen, Amy Gerstler, Shara= n Strange, Lee Young Lee, Jeanne Marie Beaumont, Frank O'Hara, Lorenzo Thomas= , and Bob Kaufman.=B2 Patricia Spears Jones is an award-winning poet and playwright, and author of The Weather That Kills. Students must submit 5-10 pg. work samples before the class begins. FINDING THE & THEN SOME THERE THERE =AD MERRY FORTUNE THURSDAYS at 7 PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 24TH Film of Dreyer, writing of Mayer, painting of Traylor. An identifiable poet =B3voice=B2 is a desirable, comfortable and utilitarian achievement. But what potential or beautiful mystery lurks beyond carefully cultivated form, tendency, technique, habit and boundary. Exploring the processes, qualities and aesthetics of all art forms we will collectively discover commonalities= , and fearlessly apprehend what we may learn to expand our poetic values and vocabularies as well as our very minds. Merry Fortune is the author of Ghosts By Albert Ayler, Ghosts By Albert Ayler (Futurepoem). HYPNOSIS AND CREATIVITY =AD MAGGIE DUBRIS FRIDAYS AT 7 PM: 5 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 25TH =B3Hypnotic and trance states have been used for centuries by shamans, mystic= s and visionaries. In this five week workshop, we will study techniques for self-hypnosis that allow a writer to easily access the creative flow state. We will explore the use of hypnotic tools to generate images, to increase creative focus, to switch gears from a day job into writing, and to circumvent creative blocks. We will also discuss the use of hypnosis to vividly recall memories, and its use in conjunction with other creative tools such as automatic writing.=B2 A $20 materials fee covers four of Dubris=B9s hypnosis CDs, three of which are specifically geared to writing. Maggie Dubris is the author of Skels (Soft Skull Press 2004), and Weep Not, My Wanton (Black Sparrow Press 2002). She is also employed as a professiona= l hypnotist.=20 POETRY AND MUSIC =AD DREW GARDNER FRIDAYS at 7 PM: 5 SESSIONS BEGIN APRIL 8TH =B3A workshop investigating the relation of music and poetry, comparing the languages of poetry and music and asking questions about how they can be combined and how they might illuminate each other. What are the poetic implications of improvisation? What are the musical implications of everyda= y speech? What does our experience of poetry imply about how we experience sound and how does our listening affect our writing? We will read and liste= n to Harry Partch, Morton Feldman, Leo Smith, Pauline Oliveros, Thoreau, Nathaniel Mackey and others, keep listening notebooks and collaborate with guest musicians. No musical background required.=B2 Drew Gardner is the autho= r of Sugar Pill (Krupskaya) and conducts the Poetics Orchestra, an ensemble featuring poetry and structured improvisation. A LAB: POST-CONCEPTUAL POETRIES =AD ROBERT FITTERMAN SATURDAYS AT 12PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 26 =B3What happens when we ask ourselves not if the poem =B3could have been done better, but whether it could have been done otherwise=B2 (Dworkin). In post-conceptual writing, the expression is realized in the process. This workshop will be a hands-on writing lab. Each week we will write poems in-class generated by borrowed models from contemporary, 21st Century poetry. Some of these experiments might include: sampling, bastardization, procedural writing, mixed media, collaboration, etc.=B2 Robert Fitterman is the author of 9 books of poetry including: Metropolis XXX (Edge Books), Metropolis 16-29 (Coach House Press) and Metropolis 1-15 (Sun & Moon Press)= . The workshop fee is $300, which includes a one-year individual Poetry Project membership and tuition for any and all fall and spring classes. Reservations are required due to limited class space and payment must be received in advance. Please send payment and reservations to: The Poetry Project, St. Mark=B9s Church, 131 E. 10th St., NY, NY 10003. For more information please call (212) 674-0910 or e-mail info@poetryproject.com. We do accept payment via credit cards. You can either submit $ at www.paypal.com, or call the office with your number: 212-674-0910. Thanks! The WINTER CALENDAR (FEB/MAR NOW UP!): http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 12:25:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Berkson Subject: Berkson/Emerson Reading at Moe's Comments: To: Gail Wight , gordon knox , Gallery Paule Anglim , chris garvey , gay outlaw , jordan geiger , george andrews , Susan Gevirtz , Robert Gluck , Robin Gianattassio-Malle , Gina Werfel , David Gitin , Sherry Goodman , Gregory Sandoval , Griff Williams , Madeleine Grynsztejn , Tara McDowell , Amanda Eicher Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable =B3President=B9s Day=B2 Reading at Moe=B9s * * * * * * Bill Berkson & Steve Emerson Monday February 21, 2005 7:30 p.m. * * * * * * * * * * Moe=B9s Books 2476 Telegraph Avenue Berkeley, CA 510-849-2087 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 15:36:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: No Subject.ivity Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Apologies for the rant before - no details. Disregard it (unless you really want to see my work). cheers. www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 15:39:56 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Beck Center, Lakewood Ohio "Raisin in the Sun" Opening Night free tickets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Free tickets for opening night only. There are a limited number of complimentary tickets available for the Friday, February 4 performance of Raisin in the Sun at the Beck Center in Lakewood. Please contact Linda Hefner at lhefner@beckcenter.org and mention this email when requesting your tickets. There is no obligation. This is a one-time no-strings offer. Marcus Bales ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 17:00:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City 22 Now Available Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Please forward --------------- Boog City 22, February 2005 Available featuring: East Village editor Paulette Powell's beat report on multimedia artist Fly, featuring some of her work. Columnist Greg Fuchs on the late John Fisk, Poetry Project broadcast consultant and much more. Our Printed Matter section, edited by Joanna Sondheim, featuring reviews by= : --Nicholas Leaskou on Truong Tran's Within the Margin --Eugene Lim on Brian Evenson's The Wavering Knife Music editor Jon Berger on The Moldy Peaches' Kimya Dawson's "Off the Sauce Party." Erica Kaufman on The Feverfew's debut CD Apparitions, on Eyeball Records. Our Poetry section, edited by Dana Ward, features work from: --Amick Boone --Noah Eli Gordon and Sara Veglahn --Catherine Meng --Chuck Stebolton Art editor Brenda Iijima brings us work from artist Johan Nobell of Stockholm, Sweden. A new comic from Lee Harvey. and The February installment of the NYC Poetry Calendar, now under Boog management. The calendar lists every reader at every reading in the five boroughs, thanks to the assistance of Jackie Sheeler of www.poetz.com, who generously shares her information with us, and Bob Holman and the Bowery Poetry Club for sponsoring it. And huge kudos go out to our new poetry calendar editor Bethanie Beausoleil for compiling the data for the calendar= . ----- And a welcome aboard to our new copy editor, Joe Bates. ----- Please patronize our advertisers: Bowery Poetry Club * www.bowerypoetry.com Litmus Press * www.litmuspress.org Pink Pony West Poetry Reading Series * www.poetz.com/pony/pinkpony.htm Poets for Peace * www.poetsagainstthewar.org The Poetz Calendar * www.poetz.com/mainrite.htm#REGIONAL%20POETRY%20CALENDARS Pom Pom magazine * www.pompompress.com ----- Advertising or donation inquiries can be directed to editor@boogcity.com or by calling 212-842-2664 ----- You can pick up Boog City for free at the following locations: East Village Acme Bar and Grill alt.coffee Angelika Film Center and Caf=E9 Anthology Film Archives Bluestockings Bowery Poetry Club Cafe Pick Me Up CBGB's CB's 313 Gallery C-Note Continental Lakeside Lounge Life Cafe The Living Room Mission Cafe Nuyorican Poets Caf=E9 Pianos The Pink Pony Shakespeare & Co. St. Mark's Books St. Mark's Church Sunshine Theater Tonic Tower Video Trash and Vaudeville Other parts of Manhattan Hotel Chelsea Poets House in Williamsburg Bliss Cafe Clovis Press Earwax Galapagos Northsix Sideshow Gallery Spoonbill & Sugartown Supercore Cafe -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 16:25:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Academia and other bureacracies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit live to write or.... taste: what one squirrel avoids in disgust another devours savagely ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 17:46:24 -0500 Reply-To: Pat Harsch Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pat Harsch Subject: Looking for some information Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm looking for some help in identifying the source of a poem or some ideas about how to continue my research. My mother graduated from high school in Neligh, Nebraska, in 1931. She always claimed she wrote a short poem, which has been published many places since. She said her English teacher sold it and didn't tell you. While my mother did continue to write some poetry throughout her lifetime, there is no proof that she wrote this particular poem. It may have been something she heard, but came to believe it was original to her. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. the poem: "The gum-chewing girl and the cud-chewing cow are somewhat alike, yet different somehow. What is the difference -- Oh, I see it now -- It's the intelligent look on the face of the cow." My mother always hated gum chewing. thanks, Wallis Harsch Columbus, OH 614-263-9493 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 16:27:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Valentine's Day reading at City Lights Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Monday, February 14th, 7 pm City Lights Books 261 Columbus Avenue San Francisco, CA 94133 415-362-8193 Dodie Bellamy will read with her students in celebration of her birthday and the re-release of The Letters of Mina Harker (2004, University of Wisconsin) Joining Dodie will be Julia Bloch, Colter Jacobsen, Donal Mosher, Aaron Nielsen, & Zakary Szymanski. In Dodie Bellamy's imagined "sequel" to Bram Stoker's fin-de-si=E8cle masterpiece Dracula, the plain Jane secretarial adjunct, Mina Harker, is recast as a sexual, independent woman living in San Francisco in the 1980s. The vampire Mina Harker, who possesses the body of author Dodie Bellamy, confesses the most intimate details of her relationships with four vastly different men through past letters. Sensuous and captivating, The Letters of Mina Harker describe one woman's struggles with finding the right words to explain her desires and fears without confining herself to one identity. "One of the most important novels of our time." - Dennis Cooper, from the foreword ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:34:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: [job] Spoken Word / Poetry Night Host MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Location: Los Angeles Contact: mailto:job-58270078@craigslist.org Spoken Word / Poetry Night Host needed for weekly show in Hollywood Theater. Seeking a host with experience and love for the art. Must be able to book artists, schedule performances and be responsible for the show. In other words, the theater becomes yours for the night. The right person will be given creative control over show. You must be responsible and dependable. You will be paid a percentage of the box office. Sound like something you can take on? For more information, contact the Next Stage Theatre 1523 N. La Brea Ave. Los Angeles at (323) 850-7827 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 21:58:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: Tom Nattell Comments: To: editor@pavementsaw.org In-Reply-To: <41FF262B.F82C21BF@pavementsaw.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, we had a great happy trails event for Tom Nattell -- details below in the Times Union (rather accurate) account of the event -- Pierre A poetic farewell to Tom Nattell By GREG HAYMES, Staff writer First published: Wednesday, February 2, 2005 ALBANY -- There were political poems, environmental poems, revolutionary poems. Poems about peace and about poetry itself. There were poems by Tom Nattell, and poems about Tom Nattell. More than two dozen Capital Region poets and musicians performed at Tess' Lark Tavern on Monday evening for what was planned as the first installment of "Poets Speak Loud," a new monthly series of open-mike nights. Nattell, the 52-year-old undisputed dean of the Albany poetry scene, was slated to be the featured artist at the event. But after a long battle with cancer, he passed away at his home Monday morning, and the reading was transformed into a word-drenched wake, and a standing-room-only celebration of Nattell's belief in the power of poetry to build community. Nattell, also a social and political activist, had hosted a monthly open-mike night for poets at the now-defunct QE2 nightclub in Albany for 10 years. He also hosted annual "Readings Against the End of the World," as well as events for Poets Action Against AIDS. In short, Nattell served as a friend and mentor to to nearly everyone in the region who has stood in front of a microphone to pour out their verse. "This night was all about Tom Nattell, and it still is," said poet Mary Panza, who co-hosted the festivities with Thom Francis. "We are here to mourn his passing and celebrate his life." The evening began with a recording of Nattell reading several of his own poems, including "Frank Zappa Memorial Barbecue," which includes the line "Frank Zappa is dead, but his music spins on." Dan Wilcox, Don Levy, Cheryl Rice, Tess Lecuyer, R.M. Engelhardt, Emily Gonzalez and other poets paid homage. Singer-songwriters Steve Candlen, Kate McKrell and Times Union contributor Michael Eck offered musical tributes. Caroline Johnston, better known as MotherJudge, delivered a powerful a cappella rendition of "Amazing Grace," while performance artist Nicole Peyrafitte accompanied herself with sleigh bells as she praised Nattell's inspiring dedication and grace. Throughout the evening, an empty beer pitcher was passed around, filling up with $1, $5 and $10 bills. The proceeds were donated to the Tom Nattell Peace Poetry Prize, an annual $200 award to an Albany High School student for a poem that fosters a sense of social responsibility. Pierre Joris read eulogies from poets who were unable to attend, including award-winning poet Anne Waldman. "Tom was a great light on the scene," she wrote. " ... May his vision rekindle activist hearts everywhere." Nattell's son, Noah, read one of his father's poems, and Nattell's longtime companion Mary Anne Winslow read the final entry from Nattell's journal, which he wrote on Sunday: "Short or tall/Flowers are wonderful." After the readings had ended, Wilcox led a parade of three dozen into Washington Park, stopping at its statue of the Scottish poet Robert Burns. It was the spot where Nattell had hosted the "Poets in the Park" reading series each July since 1989. In the cold winter night, Peyrafitte kicked off her shoes and climbed barefoot up the statue, adorning Burns' bronze head with a green beret similar to the one that Nattell frequently wore. She placed a bouquet of white roses in the statue's arms. As the crowd cheered, Peyrafitte climbed down and lit a candle at the foot of the statue. On Feb 1, 2005, at 1:48 AM, David Baratier wrote: > I met a lot of people through Tom, mainly through the reading series he > ran at the QE2. I know I met Gerry Schwartz, David Kirschenbaum, Alan > Catlin & Paul Weinman there. He was real active politically, to the > core--and between him, Dan Wilcox, Charlie Rossitter and all the punk > rock running through the place there was a DIY thing that started me > into publishing, DAK's Boog also, I would guess. Tom was radical in a > goofy fun way, bringing instruments to readings in the homeless park, > making people read Whitman's Leaves of Grass non-stop start to finish, > trying to get us all to wear a bunch of neon streamers and parade > through the city, reading at the AIDS quilt at the NYS museum but still > retaining a sense of balance, rather than the reeling anguish we were > feeling in the late 80's at the time. Tom was always energetically into > the poetry, yet threw the best shindigs for whomever was passing > through > in tribute to their work. Tom did a lot of work toward causes to show > how important they were to him, from introducing the rest of the US to > his favorite Albany through readings in other states with 3 guys (he > did > New Albany, Ohio, here), to attacking hydro electric power plants as a > pamphleteer, hiroshima anniversary readings against the bomb & all > else. > He wasn't afraid to mix poetry and politics, to use it to teach, even > during a gap of time when it was thoroughly unfashionable. > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor > > Pavement Saw Press > PO Box 6291 > Columbus OH 43206 > USA > > http://pavementsaw.org > > ================================================= "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn ================================================= For updates on readings, etc. check my current events page: http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html ================================================= Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 00:00:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Thign, the Thing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Thign, the Thing Islam in Cyberspace, Christians, Jews in Cyberspace. Fatwa and Midrash in Cyberspace, Dogma in Cyberspace. The Energy it takes to construct Deity. Within this protocol, this particular site. Which is the site on a particular hard-drive. Or a site networked across numerous hard-drives. The heads reach down almost to the surface. They fly above the surface and skim the surface. They read the writing on the surface. The surface is a world which seems familiar. Or nothing moves, nothing motivated, solid memory. The memory of non-volatile transformation of states. What, is inscribed: difference. How, the transformation of electrical impulses. Or focused frequencies of the electromagnetic spectrum. Heating, for example, radiation for example. Strong and weak magnetic fields. To write is the prerogative of the strong. To read is the license of the weak. Reading changes nothing; creation is in the writing. In the writing of the thign, in the process of it. The thign-thing religion in cyberspace. (Creation and the desertion of creation.) _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 21:51:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: Thign, the Thing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alan wrote: "Reading changes nothing; creation is in the writing..." Alan, I loved this piece, but at the same time I find it full of logical = and emotional flaws akin to the opening quote. =20 Reading, actually changes everything...one learns to read and one learns = to open worlds of ideas not of one's intellectual short-comings, but of = the intellectual strengths of others. =20 One supposes this: in point of fact: "...writing changes nothing; = creation is in the reading..." for it is only in the afterthought of = the moment of inception that meaning begins to play a role. And it is = only after a reader has ascribed meaning that a moment of truth is born. = And it is only from truth that values develop. =20 Isn't this the genuine value of the reader/writer relationship? A = writer may pontificate all year long, and that which the writer has = devised, may in fact have both intellectual merit and ideological = beauty, but until a reader enters the scene and stamps the message, = "valuable" the work remains cold, useless, worthless...nothing.=20 Alex=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alan Sondheim=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 9:00 PM Subject: Thign, the Thing Thign, the Thing Islam in Cyberspace, Christians, Jews in Cyberspace. Fatwa and Midrash in Cyberspace, Dogma in Cyberspace. The Energy it takes to construct Deity. Within this protocol, this particular site. Which is the site on a particular hard-drive. Or a site networked across numerous hard-drives. The heads reach down almost to the surface. They fly above the surface and skim the surface. They read the writing on the surface. The surface is a world which seems familiar. Or nothing moves, nothing motivated, solid memory. The memory of non-volatile transformation of states. What, is inscribed: difference. How, the transformation of electrical impulses. Or focused frequencies of the electromagnetic spectrum. Heating, for example, radiation for example. Strong and weak magnetic fields. To write is the prerogative of the strong. To read is the license of the weak. Reading changes nothing; creation is in the writing. In the writing of the thign, in the process of it. The thign-thing religion in cyberspace. (Creation and the desertion of creation.) _ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 01:12:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Thign, the Thing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hi - I absolutely agree with you. What fascinates me is that - in order to write to a disk, etc. - you need a stronger current or voltage than to read; reading is a process that leaves the original alone. Yet reading in a sense is all there is; the world is interpretable, and out of such interpretation we construct meaning. But if we interfere too much, interpretation is lost, meaning corrodes. The originary texts of various monotheisms are thought impervious to reading, to interpretation; they are there purely for the performative telling - out of which stems the violence of the letter itself. - Alan On Thu, 3 Feb 2005, alexander saliby wrote: > Alan wrote: "Reading changes nothing; creation is in the writing..." > > Alan, I loved this piece, but at the same time I find it full of logical and emotional flaws akin to the opening quote. > > Reading, actually changes everything...one learns to read and one learns to open worlds of ideas not of one's intellectual short-comings, but of the intellectual strengths of others. > > One supposes this: in point of fact: "...writing changes nothing; creation is in the reading..." for it is only in the afterthought of the moment of inception that meaning begins to play a role. And it is only after a reader has ascribed meaning that a moment of truth is born. And it is only from truth that values develop. > > Isn't this the genuine value of the reader/writer relationship? A writer may pontificate all year long, and that which the writer has devised, may in fact have both intellectual merit and ideological beauty, but until a reader enters the scene and stamps the message, "valuable" the work remains cold, useless, worthless...nothing. > > Alex > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Alan Sondheim > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 9:00 PM > Subject: Thign, the Thing > > > Thign, the Thing > > Islam in Cyberspace, Christians, Jews in Cyberspace. > Fatwa and Midrash in Cyberspace, Dogma in Cyberspace. > The Energy it takes to construct Deity. > Within this protocol, this particular site. > Which is the site on a particular hard-drive. > Or a site networked across numerous hard-drives. > The heads reach down almost to the surface. > They fly above the surface and skim the surface. > They read the writing on the surface. > The surface is a world which seems familiar. > Or nothing moves, nothing motivated, solid memory. > The memory of non-volatile transformation of states. > What, is inscribed: difference. > How, the transformation of electrical impulses. > Or focused frequencies of the electromagnetic spectrum. > Heating, for example, radiation for example. > Strong and weak magnetic fields. > To write is the prerogative of the strong. > To read is the license of the weak. > Reading changes nothing; creation is in the writing. > In the writing of the thign, in the process of it. > The thign-thing religion in cyberspace. > (Creation and the desertion of creation.) > > _ > nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 01:35:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: 2/4/05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed 2/4/05 the same old thing... dribs and drabs... just turned 62 "oh my where has the time gone" o jennifer: you must live for every moment! there's not a second to lose! don't let go of that second! do everything! jennifer at 14: o alan thank you for telling me this now when i am so very young and there is still so much to learn and so much life in me! i promise i won't waste a second of my precious life! but wait, there's more! dark clouds on the horizon, and i've learned that humans are, after all, only human! don't count on anything or anyone! jennifer, it will be a big mistake! don't expect perfection! all species will die and all animals and plants! o alan, it's just a matter of time! look around you! everything you see will be gone in your lifetime! savor the essence! gone in mine, too! oh oh says jennifer, you have failed us! o o jennifer, i reply, we have led the good fight! you'll lead the good fight! it's the same good fight! different species! this one and that one! less than now, and now is less than then! don't even look at them! they're doomed! they've got no future! o o alan, it's the primate urge! it's our urge! we're better than them and better than the apes! we're not apes! we're human! we're the best there is and that's not very good but we're going to be perfect! we're on our way! it's a hard road! o jennifer, you'll follow us and do the same thing just like we followed them and we didn't think we followed them and we did the same thing! it's the way of the world, o jennifer! jennifer says o alan! oh oh oh! _ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 03:48:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Thign, the Thing in paradise reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i wonder what would have happened if we never got kicked out of PARADISE she says- we wouldn't have multiplied i ask - do you mean we'd never have sex? that we'd be extinct? she says nothing. i think - would adam & eve be the only 2 eternally? the fire rages on t.v. at the site where the plane tottered from the runway ending up in strawberry's re-read that kafka story she tells me i think he felt we...........oh i don't remember it's a weird twist let's read it together i say can't get my sentences straight i'm totally incomplete this hospital light makes us all look sick this skyline is walked thru flown thru lit by the first signs of day everything seems more like a reflection than a shadow the fire still rages arms raised reflecting on PARADISE is like walking over a bridge in dense fog even tho the day is brilliantly clear it's like when a detective shadows a possible perp without knowing all the facts it's a painting by an old master a passageway in the mind that ends in a mirror which is mistaken for a door it's like stock speculation or privitization it is like something we see so very clearly without ever knowing what it really is. steve dalachinsky nyc bellevue waiting room 2/02/05 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 05:21:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review In-Reply-To: <008a01c50799$02233660$f3032cd9@Robin> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Robin Hamilton wrote: > > > For me, I enjoy her essays because I can smell > her fear ... > ... > > Ha, that's just what the people who believe Oxford > > wrote Shakespeare say they smell when they read me > > defending the Establishment Position on the matter > at > > Internet authorship discussion groups. > > Do you mean alt.binaries.authors.shakespeare, Bob? Haven't been there, Robin. I think I'll stay away from it. humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare is enough for me--although I also discuss the "authorship question" with people at the Shakespeare Fellowship website, where I've just been shown that Greene's "Shake-scene" can't be the name of a person because Greene capitalized many nouns in his book. > I admire your patience -- for all of me, Oxfordians > are quite barking mad, > and impervious to reason. > > Dave Kathman makes an heroic effort to document > their lunacy on his site (as > you do to a smaller extent in "Upstart Crow") but > really, it's like arguing > with a pub-bore who's both deaf and crazy... > > A hiding to nothing, mate. > > Robin Agreed. But I argue for the fun of arguing a nice safe topic (unlike politics or religion). I'm also a Serious Investigator of Irrationality with a book planned on the cerebral dysfunctionality of anti-Stratfordians finished except for one last round of polishing. --Bob G. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:32:33 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > the cerebral dysfunctionality of anti-Stratfordians That's a tautology, Bob. Robin ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 05:35:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review In-Reply-To: <01fc01c50abd$fc99c600$289f9951@Robin> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Robin Hamilton wrote: > > the cerebral dysfunctionality of > anti-Stratfordians > > That's a tautology, Bob. > > Robin > Ah, but anti-Stratfordians have other qualities; my book is about this particular one only. Now stop being mean to the poor people. They're very sensitive. --Bob G. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:53:39 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob: > I'm also a > Serious Investigator of Irrationality with a book > planned on the cerebral dysfunctionality of > anti-Stratfordians finished except for one last round > of polishing. Been done -- inter alia, _Extraordinary Popular Delusions, and The Madness of Crowds_ by Charles Mackay (1841). Not to speak of (have I got the title right?) Sir Thomas Browne's _Pseudoxia Epidemica_. Why reinvent the wheel? Mind you, the Web has given a totally new spin to Conspiracy Theory ... My favourite is how Scientology was constructed by not LRon but by Van Vogt via Count Alfred Korzybski's _Science and Sanity_, and the Democrats are run by Chomsky and the Institute of Scientology, with the Sokal Hoax (cf. the British title, _Intellectual Impostures_) as a cover-text. The current front-runner in these stakes in the UK is Opus Dei, which crosses our Education Minister with The Da Vinci Code. Angels weep. :-( Robin ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 09:32:02 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlotte Mandel Subject: Re: 2/4/05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So Happy Birthday Alan! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 09:57:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Shankar, Ravi (English)" Subject: Satirical Poetry? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can anyone suggest some really deft examples of satirical poetry, = especially contemporary? I just had my class read a chapter from Terry Eagleton's memoir "The Gatekeeper," which is quite wicked in parts, and we had the requisite discussion about Ovid, Juvenal, Swift, as well as = mockumentaries, Strangelove, Al Franken, and the Onion, but I was having trouble coming = up with good examples from poetry. Grazie e saluti-=20 RS=20 ***************=20 Ravi Shankar=20 Poet-in-Residence=20 Assistant Professor CCSU - English Dept. 860-832-2766=20 shankarr@ccsu.edu=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 14:51:19 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Cudmore Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review In-Reply-To: <020001c50ac0$ef2fc110$289f9951@Robin> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And the _Da Vinci Code_ is nothing other than Eco's _Foucault's Pendulum_ without the jokes. :P > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Robin Hamilton > Sent: 04 February 2005 13:54 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review > > Bob: > > > I'm also a > > Serious Investigator of Irrationality with a book planned on the > > cerebral dysfunctionality of anti-Stratfordians finished except for > > one last round of polishing. > > Been done -- inter alia, _Extraordinary Popular Delusions, > and The Madness of Crowds_ by Charles Mackay (1841). > > Not to speak of (have I got the title right?) Sir Thomas > Browne's _Pseudoxia Epidemica_. > > Why reinvent the wheel? > > > > Mind you, the Web has given a totally new spin to Conspiracy > Theory ... > > My favourite is how Scientology was constructed by not LRon > but by Van Vogt via Count Alfred Korzybski's _Science and > Sanity_, and the Democrats are run by Chomsky and the > Institute of Scientology, with the Sokal Hoax (cf. the > British title, _Intellectual Impostures_) as a cover-text. > > The current front-runner in these stakes in the UK is Opus > Dei, which crosses our Education Minister with The Da Vinci Code. > > Angels weep. > > :-( > > Robin > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 10:03:38 -0500 Reply-To: Mike Kelleher Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Kelleher Organization: Just Buffalo Literary Center Subject: REMINDER/APOLOGY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apologies for the mass of emails this week -- it's really busy, and my lack of detail orientation and poor word choices did me in with earlier emails! Next I will return to sending newsletters just once per week. I promise. Mike TONIGHT ANSELM BERRIGAN AND STEFAN KIESBYE Poetry and Fiction Reading Friday, February 4, 8 p.m. $4, $3 student, $2 members The Hibiscus Room at Just Buffalo, Tri-Main Center, 2495 Main Street, Ste. 512 Anselm Berrigan is the author of Integrity & Dramatic Life and Zero Star Hotel (both from Edge Books), and a CD (reading only) Pictures for Private Devotion (www.narrowhouserecordings.com). Recent work can be found on-line at www.gutcult.com and www.2ndavenue.com . He lives in New York City, where he grew up, and is the Artistic Director of the Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery. He also lived in Buffalo from 1989-1993 while attending UB. Stefan Kiesbye was born on Northern Germany's Baltic coast and grew up in West Berlin. He is a graduate of SUNY Buffalo and received an MFA in Creative Writing from the University of Michigan. His novella, Next Door Lived a Girl, was the winner of the 2004 Low Fidelity Press Novella Award. His stories and poems have appeared in numerous magazines and anthologies. He currently teaches writing at Eastern Michigan University and works as a freelance writer. TOMORROW SPECIAL ONE-DAY POETRY WORKSHOP WITH ANSELM BERRIGAN STITCHING TOGETHER A VOICE Saturday, February 5 12-4 p.m., $50, $40 members I want to examine the artistic co-habitation of two apparently opposing ideas: that every poet has a distinct voice, and that every voice is constructed (a made thing). The idea being to put both notions to use in order to write rich, long, complicated, independent-minded poems that handle multiple subjects and that audiences want to read and hear. Another way of putting it is looking directly at autobiographical material and external (received, researched, appropriated, for starters) language and information as capable of sharing the same space within poetic forms. Work by poets Kevin Davies and Harryette Mullen involved. Participants should bring some work in progress or notes or unfinished anythings to use as potential material, and some reading materials of any types. ALONG THIS WAY: STORYTELLING IN THE AFRICAN TRADITION Saturday, February 5th, 2 P.M. Buffalo and Erie County Central Library, 1 Lafayette Square, Buffalo Free and open to the public This annual fun-for-the-family program celebrates the African oral tradition through stories, fables, folktales, epics, legends, songs, poems, and even jokes. Featuring storytellers Sharon Holley and Karima Amin, drummer Eddie Nicholson, and vocalist Joyce Carolyn. TUESDAY -- PLEASE NOTE ACTUAL DATE AND TIME - REALLY, I MEAN IT MS. FAT BOOTY AND THE BLACK MALE FEMINIST A Talk by scholar Mark Anthony Neal Tuesday, February 8, 7 p.m. Langston Hughes Institute, 25 High Street, Buffalo The event is free and open to the public. A former graduate student in the Department of American Studies at the University at Buffalo, Professor Neal is widely known for his provocative perspectives on contemporary black life and his public lectures and presentations on notable figures in black culture, from politicians to popular music artists, including Tupac Shakur, Michael Jackson, Al Sharpton, Meshell N'degeocello, Marvin Gaye, and Shirley Chisolm. He is the author of four books: NewBlackMan: Redefining Black Masculinity (Routledge, 2005); Songs in the Key of Black Life: A Rhythm and Blues Nation (Routledge, 2003); Soul Babies: Contemporary Black Popular Culture and the Post-Soul Aesthetic (Routledge, 2002); What the Music Said: Black Popular Music and Black Public Culture (Routledge, 1998). Copies of Professor Neal's books will be available at the talk. For more information contact the Department of Women's Studies at UB, 645-2327. A Joint Production of The Women's Studies Department at SUNY Buffalo, Langston Hughes Institute, and Just Buffalo Literary Center. UNSUBSCRIBE If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will be immediately removed. _______________________________ Mike Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center 2495 Main St., Ste. 512 Buffalo, NY 14214 716.832.5400 716.832.5710 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk@justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 10:12:17 -0500 Reply-To: Mike Kelleher Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Kelleher Organization: Just Buffalo Literary Center Subject: Re: Satirical Poetry? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Simulcast, by Ben Friedlander, has had me laughing myself to sleep for the past week. _______________________________ Mike Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center 2495 Main St., Ste. 512 Buffalo, NY 14214 716.832.5400 716.832.5710 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk@justbuffalo.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shankar, Ravi (English)" To: Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 9:57 AM Subject: Satirical Poetry? Can anyone suggest some really deft examples of satirical poetry, especially contemporary? I just had my class read a chapter from Terry Eagleton's memoir "The Gatekeeper," which is quite wicked in parts, and we had the requisite discussion about Ovid, Juvenal, Swift, as well as mockumentaries, Strangelove, Al Franken, and the Onion, but I was having trouble coming up with good examples from poetry. Grazie e saluti- RS *************** Ravi Shankar Poet-in-Residence Assistant Professor CCSU - English Dept. 860-832-2766 shankarr@ccsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 10:10:58 -0500 Reply-To: Anastasios Kozaitis Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: Satirical Poetry? In-Reply-To: <31803CD4B19783458964E3400207C1A422F620@cfacmail2.facstaff.ccsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE ASSASSINATED PRESS http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 09:57:46 -0500, Shankar, Ravi (English) wrote: > Can anyone suggest some really deft examples of satirical poetry, especially > contemporary? I just had my class read a chapter from Terry Eagleton's > memoir "The Gatekeeper," which is quite wicked in parts, and we had the > requisite discussion about Ovid, Juvenal, Swift, as well as mockumentaries, > Strangelove, Al Franken, and the Onion, but I was having trouble coming up > with good examples from poetry. > > Grazie e saluti- > > RS > > *************** > Ravi Shankar > Poet-in-Residence > Assistant Professor > CCSU - English Dept. > 860-832-2766 > shankarr@ccsu.edu > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 11:30:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Re: Satirical Poetry? In-Reply-To: <31803CD4B19783458964E3400207C1A422F620@cfacmail2.facstaff.ccsu.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Check out the poetry of Jerome Sala. He has a new book coming out, but there is also a Selected as well as hard- to- find earlier books such as *Spaz Attack*. http://www.softskull.com/detailedbook.php?isbn=1-932360-72-7 Nick P. On 2/4/05 9:57 AM, "Shankar, Ravi (English)" wrote: > Can anyone suggest some really deft examples of satirical poetry, especially > contemporary? I just had my class read a chapter from Terry Eagleton's > memoir "The Gatekeeper," which is quite wicked in parts, and we had the > requisite discussion about Ovid, Juvenal, Swift, as well as mockumentaries, > Strangelove, Al Franken, and the Onion, but I was having trouble coming up > with good examples from poetry. > > Grazie e saluti- > > RS > > > *************** > Ravi Shankar > Poet-in-Residence > Assistant Professor > CCSU - English Dept. > 860-832-2766 > shankarr@ccsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 08:39:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: Thign, the Thing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alan, "But if we interfere too much, interpretation is lost, meaning corrodes."....Sondheim, 02/03/05=20 Amen to that...and isn't that at the heart of one of Jacques Derrida's = points regarding deconstruction? =20 Oh, and Happy Birthday. Alex=20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alan Sondheim=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 10:12 PM Subject: Re: Thign, the Thing Hi - I absolutely agree with you. What fascinates me is that - in = order to write to a disk, etc. - you need a stronger current or voltage than to read; reading is a process that leaves the original alone. Yet reading = in a sense is all there is; the world is interpretable, and out of such interpretation we construct meaning. But if we interfere too much, interpretation is lost, meaning corrodes. The originary texts of various monotheisms are thought impervious to reading, to interpretation; they are there purely for the performative telling - out of which stems the violence of the letter itself. - Alan On Thu, 3 Feb 2005, alexander saliby wrote: > Alan wrote: "Reading changes nothing; creation is in the writing..." > > Alan, I loved this piece, but at the same time I find it full of = logical and emotional flaws akin to the opening quote. > > Reading, actually changes everything...one learns to read and one = learns to open worlds of ideas not of one's intellectual short-comings, = but of the intellectual strengths of others. > > One supposes this: in point of fact: "...writing changes nothing; = creation is in the reading..." for it is only in the afterthought of = the moment of inception that meaning begins to play a role. And it is = only after a reader has ascribed meaning that a moment of truth is born. = And it is only from truth that values develop. > > Isn't this the genuine value of the reader/writer relationship? A = writer may pontificate all year long, and that which the writer has = devised, may in fact have both intellectual merit and ideological = beauty, but until a reader enters the scene and stamps the message, = "valuable" the work remains cold, useless, worthless...nothing. > > Alex > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Alan = Sondheim> > To: = POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 9:00 PM > Subject: Thign, the Thing > > > Thign, the Thing > > Islam in Cyberspace, Christians, Jews in Cyberspace. > Fatwa and Midrash in Cyberspace, Dogma in Cyberspace. > The Energy it takes to construct Deity. > Within this protocol, this particular site. > Which is the site on a particular hard-drive. > Or a site networked across numerous hard-drives. > The heads reach down almost to the surface. > They fly above the surface and skim the surface. > They read the writing on the surface. > The surface is a world which seems familiar. > Or nothing moves, nothing motivated, solid memory. > The memory of non-volatile transformation of states. > What, is inscribed: difference. > How, the transformation of electrical impulses. > Or focused frequencies of the electromagnetic spectrum. > Heating, for example, radiation for example. > Strong and weak magnetic fields. > To write is the prerogative of the strong. > To read is the license of the weak. > Reading changes nothing; creation is in the writing. > In the writing of the thign, in the process of it. > The thign-thing religion in cyberspace. > (Creation and the desertion of creation.) > > _ > nettext = http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects: = http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ = http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects = http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 17:06:30 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Roger Day Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Baldrick was on BBC 1 last night explaining that the "Da Vinci Code" was bollocks. So that'll be the Education Minister and Opus Dei meets BlackAdder in "Conspiracies and Cups". Peter Cudmore cc: Sent by: UB Poetics Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review discussion group 04/02/2005 14:51 Please respond to UB Poetics discussion group And the _Da Vinci Code_ is nothing other than Eco's _Foucault's Pendulum_ without the jokes. :P > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Robin Hamilton > Sent: 04 February 2005 13:54 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Best American Poetry 2004 critical review > > Bob: > > > I'm also a > > Serious Investigator of Irrationality with a book planned on the > > cerebral dysfunctionality of anti-Stratfordians finished except for > > one last round of polishing. > > Been done -- inter alia, _Extraordinary Popular Delusions, > and The Madness of Crowds_ by Charles Mackay (1841). > > Not to speak of (have I got the title right?) Sir Thomas > Browne's _Pseudoxia Epidemica_. > > Why reinvent the wheel? > > > > Mind you, the Web has given a totally new spin to Conspiracy > Theory ... > > My favourite is how Scientology was constructed by not LRon > but by Van Vogt via Count Alfred Korzybski's _Science and > Sanity_, and the Democrats are run by Chomsky and the > Institute of Scientology, with the Sokal Hoax (cf. the > British title, _Intellectual Impostures_) as a cover-text. > > The current front-runner in these stakes in the UK is Opus > Dei, which crosses our Education Minister with The Da Vinci Code. > > Angels weep. > > :-( > > Robin > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 10:40:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hilton Obenzinger Subject: Re: Satirical Poetry? In-Reply-To: <31803CD4B19783458964E3400207C1A422F620@cfacmail2.facstaff. ccsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Ravi, I have used Ginsberg's "America," as well as other poems of his, and some of Gregory Corso in a course I teach on American Comedy and Satire. Poems by Dorothy Parker. It depends on how broadly you define satire, particularly if you consider Mennipean satire, but TS Eliot's "Prufrock" would work, even "The Waste Land." Lots of gentle satire in Kenneth Koch and Frank O'Hara. I also use Stein's "Tender Buttons" -- and talk about satire of language (as well as language of satire), and I'm having students read "Naked Lunch" to continue that discussion (in addition to other issues). Some of Emily Dickinson's poems have a satiric edge (although she's always a special case), and then there are the sardonic poems of Stephen Crane, and even more sardonic pieces by Ambrose Bierce. Twain has a wonderful parody of The Battle Hymn of the Republic satirizing the US war in the Philippines, not to mention Huck Finn. Melville's "The Confidence Man." The most significant satire today is The Daily Show, better than the Onion. Lenny Bruce's "How to Talk Dirty and Influence People" knocks students out, usually -- some thought it was morally sound than St. Augustine. I could go on -- but that should add to the stew. Hilton Obenzinger At 09:57 AM 2/4/2005 -0500, Shankar, Ravi (English) wrote: >Can anyone suggest some really deft examples of satirical poetry, especially >contemporary? I just had my class read a chapter from Terry Eagleton's >memoir "The Gatekeeper," which is quite wicked in parts, and we had the >requisite discussion about Ovid, Juvenal, Swift, as well as mockumentaries, >Strangelove, Al Franken, and the Onion, but I was having trouble coming up >with good examples from poetry. > >Grazie e saluti- > >RS > > >*************** >Ravi Shankar >Poet-in-Residence >Assistant Professor >CCSU - English Dept. >860-832-2766 >shankarr@ccsu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. Associate Director for Honors Writing, Undergraduate Research Programs Lecturer, Department of English Stanford University 414 Sweet Hall 650.723.0330 650.724.5400 Fax obenzinger@stanford.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 14:05:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Vote Shows Followers Of Osama Bin Laden Holding Large Majority Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Iraqi Vote Shows Followers Of Osama Bin Laden Holding Large Majority: Stealthy Terrorists Infiltrated Voting Process, Take Early Lead: Negroponte Poised To Step In And Nullify Elections By BASTON RUEMIRORS "Some People Push Back" By WARD CHURCHILL 30% Of Those Eligible To Vote Turn Out For Iraq Elections; 8% Of Their Own Free Will, More Or Less; The Rest Threatened With Food Ration Cut-Off: Most Iraqis Thought Vote Was A Referendum On Whether U.S. Troops Should Leave Iraq Immediately And Go Back To Whatever Godforsaken Place They Came From And Fight A War And Occupy Their Own Damn Country For A Change: Cheney Declares Election Success: "Now We Know Which 275 People Of The 25 Million We have To Bribe;" Theft Of Oil Requires Patina Of Legality?: Kurds Ready To Declare Independent Kurdestan; Turkey Ready To Declare War, Cut Off Oil To Iraq: Godless Allawi Extends Poisoned Olive Branch To Sunnis: BY MO BRAZZI ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 11:06:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: Satirical Poetry? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20050204102808.02866440@hobnzngr.pobox.stanford.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In several of the poems in "Meadowlands" (Rainy Morning) and "Vita Nova" (the closing poem of that collection) Louise Gluck seems to me to be satirizing herself. Kazim --- Hilton Obenzinger wrote: > Ravi, > > I have used Ginsberg's "America," as well as other > poems of his, and some > of Gregory Corso in a course I teach on American > Comedy and Satire. Poems > by Dorothy Parker. It depends on how broadly you > define satire, > particularly if you consider Mennipean satire, but > TS Eliot's "Prufrock" > would work, even "The Waste Land." Lots of gentle > satire in Kenneth Koch > and Frank O'Hara. I also use Stein's "Tender > Buttons" -- and talk about > satire of language (as well as language of satire), > and I'm having students > read "Naked Lunch" to continue that discussion (in > addition to other > issues). Some of Emily Dickinson's poems have a > satiric edge (although > she's always a special case), and then there are the > sardonic poems of > Stephen Crane, and even more sardonic pieces by > Ambrose Bierce. Twain has > a wonderful parody of The Battle Hymn of the > Republic satirizing the US war > in the Philippines, not to mention Huck Finn. > Melville's "The Confidence > Man." The most significant satire today is The > Daily Show, better than the > Onion. Lenny Bruce's "How to Talk Dirty and > Influence People" knocks > students out, usually -- some thought it was morally > sound than St. > Augustine. I could go on -- but that should add to > the stew. > > Hilton Obenzinger > > > At 09:57 AM 2/4/2005 -0500, Shankar, Ravi (English) > wrote: > >Can anyone suggest some really deft examples of > satirical poetry, especially > >contemporary? I just had my class read a chapter > from Terry Eagleton's > >memoir "The Gatekeeper," which is quite wicked in > parts, and we had the > >requisite discussion about Ovid, Juvenal, Swift, as > well as mockumentaries, > >Strangelove, Al Franken, and the Onion, but I was > having trouble coming up > >with good examples from poetry. > > > >Grazie e saluti- > > > >RS > > > > > >*************** > >Ravi Shankar > >Poet-in-Residence > >Assistant Professor > >CCSU - English Dept. > >860-832-2766 > >shankarr@ccsu.edu > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. > Associate Director for Honors Writing, Undergraduate > Research Programs > Lecturer, Department of English > Stanford University > 414 Sweet Hall > 650.723.0330 > 650.724.5400 Fax > obenzinger@stanford.edu > ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 16:52:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Irving Weiss Subject: Can anyone identify the language or the words? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Just received a mail art invite from Spain and its in one of the Spanish Romance languages. No matter how I try in Google, I can=B9t match the words t= o whatever language is spoken in Alcal=E0 de Xivert Castell=F2. Anyone know what these words mean? barreja Iliure treballs tamany Irving Weiss ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 17:07:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: Satirical Poetry? In-Reply-To: <31803CD4B19783458964E3400207C1A422F620@cfacmail2.facstaff.ccsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Much of Ed Dorn's work. On Feb 4, 2005, at 9:57 AM, Shankar, Ravi (English) wrote: > Can anyone suggest some really deft examples of satirical poetry, > especially > contemporary? I just had my class read a chapter from Terry Eagleton's > memoir "The Gatekeeper," which is quite wicked in parts, and we had the > requisite discussion about Ovid, Juvenal, Swift, as well as > mockumentaries, > Strangelove, Al Franken, and the Onion, but I was having trouble > coming up > with good examples from poetry. > > Grazie e saluti- > > RS > > > *************** > Ravi Shankar > Poet-in-Residence > Assistant Professor > CCSU - English Dept. > 860-832-2766 > shankarr@ccsu.edu > > ================================================= "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn ================================================= For updates on readings, etc. check my current events page: http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html ================================================= Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 17:17:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: konrad Subject: Re: Thigh, the thing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed alexander saliby wrote: [snip] > Reading, actually changes everything...one learns to read and > one learns to open worlds of ideas not of one's intellectual > short-comings, but of the intellectual strengths of others. > > One supposes this: in point of fact: "...writing changes > nothing; creation is in the reading..." for it is only in the > afterthought of the moment of inception that meaning begins to > play a role. And it is only after a reader has ascribed > meaning that a moment of truth is born. And it is only from > truth that values develop. [snip] > > Alan Sondheim wrote: >> Hi - I absolutely agree with you. What fascinates me is that >> - in order to write to a disk, etc. - you need a stronger >> current or voltage than to read; reading is a process that >> leaves the original alone. Yet reading in a sense is all >> there is; the world is interpretable, and out of such >> interpretation we construct meaning. But if we interfere too >> much, interpretation is lost, meaning corrodes. >> The originary texts of various monotheisms are thought >> impervious to reading, to interpretation; they are there >> purely for the performative telling - out of which stems the >> violence of the letter itself. But still if "reading is all there is" then writing is all there is too. I mean they only come together, no? Can you 'read' an orgasm? Isn't ecstatic experience often pointed to as the origin of religious texts. Then they sometimes famously declare that the 'beginning' is pegged at the transition to the social, when that experience gets put into 'the word.' It seems like a dominant thread of your (Alan's) own writing seems to be a kind of biting the hand that feeds: a 'readerly' assault on the syntax that's made by projecting ecstatic experience into time, an attack on the root of 'the strong's perogative.' Doesn't it seem like reading changes writing and vice versa? (It actually takes me quite a lot of energy to read some texts!) But that's not the only feedback loop in town. For one thing there's textual corruption. There's also performance which (as David Larsen and Michelle Tea demonstrated last night at New Langton Arts in SF) is more than speech. And then also work in film, music, etc that exceeds the written/read horizon. Thinking of this relentless mill of response and intepretation, i'm reminded of the end of a long line Kerouac's ' ... Lucien Midnight for my name, and concocted up a world so nothing you had forever thereafter make believe it's real.' konrad ^Z - Alan > Alex > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Alan Sondheim> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 9:00 PM > Subject: Thign, the Thing > > > Thign, the Thing > > Islam in Cyberspace, Christians, Jews in Cyberspace. > Fatwa and Midrash in Cyberspace, Dogma in Cyberspace. > The Energy it takes to construct Deity. > Within this protocol, this particular site. > Which is the site on a particular hard-drive. > Or a site networked across numerous hard-drives. > The heads reach down almost to the surface. > They fly above the surface and skim the surface. > They read the writing on the surface. > The surface is a world which seems familiar. > Or nothing moves, nothing motivated, solid memory. > The memory of non-volatile transformation of states. > What, is inscribed: difference. > How, the transformation of electrical impulses. > Or focused frequencies of the electromagnetic spectrum. > Heating, for example, radiation for example. > Strong and weak magnetic fields. > To write is the prerogative of the strong. > To read is the license of the weak. > Reading changes nothing; creation is in the writing. > In the writing of the thign, in the process of it. > The thign-thing religion in cyberspace. > (Creation and the desertion of creation.) > > _ > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 00:41:52 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lophozia Subject: Fwd: { 32 } in durance vile MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 if this gets garbled try using "proportional font" (?) --- In mailsnail@yahoogroups.com, common@m... wrote: ====================================================================== ======== -:_:_:- -:_:_:- -:_:_:- -:_:_:- -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / / -:_:_:- / / brain weather -:_:_:- -:_:_:- -:_:_:- -:_:_:- -:_:_:- -:_:_:- -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- -:_:_:- -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- ( mote ) -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- -:_:_:- -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / / -:_:_:- / / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- -:_:_:- -:_:_:- -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / / -:_:_:- bad planet / / / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- -:_:_:- / / -:_:_:- / / / -:_:_:- / / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- / -:_:_:- ====================================================================== ======== Volker Nix ecrete # 32 .//. --- End forwarded message --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 19:17:20 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Blake School Reading Series Announcement Comments: To: gfcivil@stkate.edu, manowak@stkate.edu, editor@raintaxi.com, kelly@raintaxi.com, patrickdurgin@earthlink.net, carolroos@earthlink.net, Wexlermann@aol.com, fish@coffeehousepress.org, sunyungshin@hotmail.com, mori0181@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, oconn001@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, weave049@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, heal0061@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, colburn@bitstream.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >From: "Jeff Hansen" > >Miekal and & Maria Damon > >Sunday, February 6 at 2 O'clock > >The Northrop Campus of The Blake School >(The Upper School) >511 Kenwood Parkway >Minneapolis, Minnesota 55403 >(West of the Minneapolis Sculpture Garden) > >This year=92s Sunday at the Blake School Reading Series continues with the >most technologically advanced event we=92ve yet hosted: Miekal And and >Maria Damon will present their explorations into collaborative computer >and hypermedia projects. They were among the first to see the vast >potential the computer offers writers, and they continue to contribute >important electronic works. > >Maria Damon is a professor at the University of Minnesota. Her books >include Literature Nation (with Miekal And), The Dark End of the Street: >Margins in American Vanguard Poetry, and The Secret Life of Words (with >Betsy Franco.) She and Miekal have been developing =93intertwining=94 >hypermedia works for years. The collaborative nature of their efforts >allows for an egalitarian and group-oriented writing. They are exploring >possibilities beyond that of the solitary genius. > >Miekal And, a micro-press publisher for years, is the creator of an >infoplex worth of visual-verbal lit, audio-art, performance ritual & >hypermedia for the Macintosh. Since 1991, he has made his home at >Dreamtime Village, a hypermedia / permaculture village project, located in >the driftless bioregion of southwestern Wisconsin. And devotes much time >to creating edible wilderness indoors & out, growing such things as figs, >citrus, cherries, grapes & chestnuts. 1998 marked the creation of The >Driftless Grotto of West Lima, a permanent public grotto/ park >installation which when finished will feature a bird-operated time machine >in a 25 foot blue glass tower. > >The Blake School is a co-educational, independent school with campuses in >Minneapolis, Hopkins and Wayzata. It is dedicated to providing students >from pre-kindergarten through 12th grade with an excellent, academically >challenging education in a diverse and supportive community. The Blake >School's website is at www.blakeschool.org. -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 02:19:42 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Felix Subject: Re: Can anyone identify the language or the words? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The X in Xivert is characteristic of Catalan, where it's a crunchy ch = sound P=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group=20 > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Irving Weiss > Sent: 04 February 2005 21:53 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Can anyone identify the language or the words? >=20 > Just received a mail art invite from Spain and its in one of=20 > the Spanish Romance languages. No matter how I try in Google,=20 > I can=B9t match the words to whatever language is spoken in=20 > Alcal=E0 de Xivert Castell=F2. Anyone know what these words mean? >=20 > barreja > Iliure > treballs > tamany >=20 > Irving Weiss >=20 >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 23:28:13 -0500 Reply-To: jUStin!katKO Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jUStin!katKO Subject: Re: RADIO TAXI - call for sound works Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" , schmidtj@muohio.edu, zakablade@hotmail.com, Chris Michel , reissja@muohio.edu, rothfuda@muohio.edu, Marci Kacsir , bbakerrussell@yahoo.com, Daisy Levy , Darren Demaree , holloback@earthlink.net, sarahelizabethregina@yahoo.com, katkojn@muohio.edu In-Reply-To: <49B578DE-7227-11D9-8F43-000D936DA2AA@slang.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable call for sound works of any/all natures=20 to be collected on a single medium and broadcast in pedestrian space as an autonomous sound !nstallation transmitted from dictaphone into the 1/8" mic input of $10 mini toy guitar (wal-mart) and delivered to public via attached megaphone live site: VERSION>05 INVINCIBLE DESIRE festival (Chicago)--see below in situ video to be made broadcast online in situ sound to be submitted to tnwk & simon keep's RADIO TAXI--see below please email sound files to justin.katko@gmail.com or mail hard copies to justin katko / 201 e chestnut #311 / oxford, oh / 45= 056 deadline: march 30 please circulate as you see fit thanks and cheers jUStin!katKO http://www.justin-katko.tk On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 18:55:05 +0000, cris cheek wro= te: > RADIO TAXI >=20 > Kirsten Lavers, cris cheek, (TNWK) and Simon Keep invite sound artists > (including writers, poets, visual artists, musicians working with > sound) to submit work for a short range FM and internet radio event in > late May and early June 2005. >=20 > BACKGROUND > RADIO TAXI is a Taxi Gallery narrowcast and webcast initiative. Taxi > Gallery is literally a black cab situated in a council estate on the > outskirts of Cambridge, England. Since Sept 2001, over 25 different > artists have made new works in response to the specific context offered > by the gallery and its location. Taxi Gallery is a project that reaches > for an extended conversation with local, national and international > audiences (via its website) in response to a broad range of challenging > contemporary artworks, approaches and ideas. >=20 > For more info on Taxi Gallery =E2=80=93 please visit www.taxigallery.org.= uk >=20 > The translocal or "glocal" philosophy of Taxi Gallery is reflected in > the forthcoming RADIO TAXI project which will integrate a 3 mile radius > analogue FM broadcast with a worldwide digital transmission via a > server capable of handling multiple streams. >=20 > RADIO TAXI will be a live(ly) mix of locally originated programmes and > interventions (significant community involvement by neighbourhood > residents of all ages will be developed, including several major > projects with Coleridge Secondary School and an evolving radio club), a > curated programme of invited sound works and a schedule of sonic art > from all over the world. >=20 > The Radio Taxi webcast will be technically supported by Liam Wells > (Norwich School of Art and Design) of n0media. >=20 > Transmission dates: >=20 > 6pm 27 May =E2=80=93 6am 31 May (GMT) > & > 6pm 3 June =E2=80=93 Midnight 5 June (selected highlights) >=20 > The selected highlights will remain archived on the Taxi Gallery > website for the foreseeable future. An audio CD selection will also be > included in a forthcoming full colour Taxi Gallery publication. >=20 > SUBMISSION DETAILS >=20 > THERE ARE THREE WAYS TO TAKE PART IN RADIO TAXI: >=20 > 1. A 1hour (unedited, raw) field sound recording made at night (anyt= ime > between dusk and dawn) from a specific location anywhere in the world. > Please include exact details of the location, date and time of the > recording. >=20 > 2. A recording made for the duration of a taxi journey (see Jan Cain= 's > 'Ride' in the Taxi Gallery web archive). Please include details of the > journey including departure and arrival destinations and reasons for > the journey. >=20 > These recordings will be played during the overnight programme during > the broadcast period =E2=80=93 a programme inspired by Jim Jarmusch's fil= m > 'Night On Earth'. All submitted recordings will be fully credited on > the website. >=20 > 3. Contribute to the curated programme by submitting new or existing > sound works that in some way address at least one or more of the > following themes: >=20 > Neighbourhood The Commons Everyday >=20 > Location Transition Conversation Collection >=20 > Transmission >=20 > No other limits and we're also happy to receive proposals/ideas for > works to be carried out on site or via live =E2=80=93 streaming. Submissi= ons > should be sent (preferably in audio CD format =E2=80=93 please get in tou= ch if > this is a problem) with details, credit info and weblinks to: >=20 > 38 Stanesfield Rd, Cambridge, CB5 8NH England. >=20 > Queries to: info@radiotaxi.org.uk >=20 > Submission Deadline: 1 May 2005-01-22 latest =E2=80=93 though we'd encour= age > early submissions. >=20 > WE'D ENCOURAGE YOU TO FORWARD THIS INVITATION WIDELY. >=20 > apologies for any cross-posting >=20 ------ Forwarded Message From: Lance Penellette Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 23:38:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [call for proposals] VERSION >05 INVINCIBLE DESIRE VERSION>05 APRIL 22- MAY 1, 2005 CHICAGO Call for Proposals and Work Deadline February 28, 2005 Version is a hybrid form of festival, conference, arts fair and online project. The fourth annual Version convergence is an experimental approach at navigating the activities of emerging cultures that combine visual arts, activism, social practices, creative use of new technologies as well as tactics and strategies of intervention. Version>05>Invincible Desire Version>05-Invincible Desire is a summit of the underground and the everyday. Version>05 aims to practice, examine, and strengthen the activities of local configurations and their external networks. Version>05 is a drunken boat on a river whose flow has been reversed by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. Driven by an irrepressible urgency for intervention in the roaring bullshit carnival that has become reality, Version>05 will investigate, debilitate, and agitate contemporary US culture through a diverse program featuring an experimental art expo, artistic disturbances, networked urban events, screenings, interactive software applications, performances, workshops, parties and street action. We envision a New Renaissance summit of aggressive cultural workers organizing their shared interests and networking a distribution of ideas; a rendez-vous of friends & lovers who?ve never yet met. We will convene in Chicago for a ten-day open laboratory to explore a diversity of tactics and strategies for activating our communities, amplifying our ideas, and ultimately creating viable permacultures parallel to consumer society =E2=80=93 and capable of superceding it. The city itself will be used as a map to stage microactions. Blueprints for strengthening emerging alliances and counter-institutions will be unveiled. Alternative spaces will be open for staging actions. Public space, corporate and otherwise, will be our terrain of intervention. Version>05-Invincible Desire is a cultural summit and call for creating and strengthening connections among artists, writers, wingnuts, curators, vigilante gardeners, activists, surrealists, scientists, musicians, pirates, filmmakers, activists, space hijackers, tactical media provocateurs, radical cartographers, students, designers, dreamers, architects, adventurers, critical thinkers and cultural workers of all kinds. Send us your critiques of the society of Control and help us examine the rhizomatic systems now confronting the monoculture. We want to enlarge our little utopias and expand participation across today's multiple fronts of countercultural emancipation and cultural reclamation. We dictate no format and only require your desire to make it happen. CALL FOR PROPOSALS AND WORK. Deadline February 28,2005 Go to: http://versionfest.org Version>05 Invincible Desire is a cultural summit and call for creating and strengthening connections between, artists, writers, vigilantes, curators, scientists, musicians, filmmakers, activists, space hijackers, tactical media provocateurs, students, designers, architects, critical thinkers and cultural workers of all kinds. SEND US YOUR IDEAS AND PROPOSALS FOR: papers, workshops, films, street art (stickers, cut-outs, xeroxable pages, stencils), anti-corporate actions, tactical media projects, culture jamming activities, public art interventions, micro actions, billboard modifications, DIY urbanism, office pranks, social and technology hacking ideas, agit prop posters, how-to guides, creative disturbances in public space, profiles of space invaders and hijackers, lists of tactics and strategies, psychogeographic adventuresS You may mail your proposal and work to: Version>05 960 W 31st St Chicago Il 60608 USA Please use the online submission form to submit a thumbnail sketch of your project. Multiple submissions are encouraged. All online submissions are open for viewing by the public. There are a few sections of Version that are regularly featured: GENERAL PROJECT PROPOSALS Alterations of everyday life. Space hijackings and invasions, occupations and disruptions in corporate space: Psychogeographers, writers, artists, performance artists, tactical mediaticians, and creative interventionists are invited to share their ideas and proposals for projects to be realized at this year?s Version. Please use the online submission form to provide a brief description of the work. VERSION NFO ART XPO For SPACES AND COLLECTIVES AND DOCUMENTATIONS Alternative spaces are hubs for encouraging little utopias. Social and cultural places act as laboratories for collaboration and explorations of emerging cultures. Version>05 will be hosting an NFO ART EXPO and space summit. We extend an invitation to members of artist run spaces, alternative institutions, cultural and social spaces, open universities, and individual artists and activists to present their work and mission within a booth or table at the version expo. A space summit will be organized to share stories, strategies and methods of survival and connectivity. Please use the online submission form or contact Ed Marszewski directly at ed@lumpen.com for further information. TECHNOLOGY AND NET BASED SUBMISSIONS An online/offline network of projects that are selected for wider dissemination and exhibition. Please use the online submission form to provide a brief description of the work. CONFERENCE AND WORKSHOPS Discussions, presentations and documentations of projects, ideas, theories and situations. Email texts directly to ed@Lumpen.com FILM AND VIDEO We are seeking work to screen in microcinemas, theaters, the net and to broadcast on cable access tv and low power UHF tv. Shorts, features, experimental and documentary work is preferred. We encourage submissions from individual curators, festivals or media collectives. Television programs can be 28.5 minutes and 58.5 minutes long. When submitting video work please mail us your work along with the following information: Title Year made Director Country of orgin Running time Description of work [up to 500 words] Contact information (your name, address, phone number, email address, web site) Moving image entries may be produced on any film or video format, however they must be submitted on DVD (NTSC only), Mini DV (NTSC only), or VHS (NTSC only). Each film or video must be accompanied by a bio, description and stills. PERFORMANCE: Experimental presentations, new forms of audio visual engagement, live musical performances. Submit urls or send cds to the Version address listed above. VERSION RADIO: Audio projects of up to 90 minutes will be accepted for broadcast on our low watt radio and web streaming stations during the convergence. Send Cds to the address above. ///// Disclaimer: We will be unable to return any submitted works. So please do not send original or masters. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 00:05:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: 3 pieces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed 3 pieces Prostitute Murder Crime Solved Vales. slave. Hated death. Crave carve. Skill kills. mates meats. Cots cost. Lost slot. Pale leap. Fat aft. Cat act. Pat tap. Asp sap. Mar. Ram. Oh ho. No on. Ward draw. Lust slut. Spin nips. Slit list. Lots slot. Sore rose. Tins Snit. Star. Arts. Lore role. Cats cast. Rote. Tore. Bore robe. Last slat. Stab. Bats. This hits. Part trap. Cars. Scar. Tons snot. Cabs. Scab. Tars. Rats. Rapt tarp. Past spat. Spit tips. Guns sung. Ends dens. Opts spot. Tops Post. _ Oh look! It's a new animal! _ enormous beauty of other happy planets http://www.asondheim.org/planetbike.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/planetshore.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/planetwing.jpg everyone is happy and wonderful everyone flies and sings and has happy times happy oceans animals and plants happy shores to dream of happy planets _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 09:09:25 +0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nicholas Karavatos Subject: JOB: Department Head, Department of Humanities and Social Science - Muscat, Oman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Department Head: Department of Humanities and Social Science Modern College of Business and Science, MCBS, located in Muscat, Oman, is accepting applications for the position of department head of the Department of Humanities and Social Sciences. The department comprises six full time faculty, several part time instructors, and provides general education programs to majors at the associate and bachelor degree levels. Duties include responsibility for curricula development and management of the department. The Head of the Department of Humanities and Social Sciences sits on the Academic Board of the College and assists the Dean in the overall administration of academic programs of the College.=20 Qualifications: applicants should hold a PhD in a either a humanities or a social science and have at least 10 years of teaching and administrative experience. Familiarity with the American system of higher education is essential. Salary and benefits: salaries are payable in Omani Rials, a fully convertible currency. Starting salary approximately 1100 OR per month, including allowances. The college pays round trip transportation for faculty and their families, medical benefits, and provides housing for all faculty members. An initial contract of two years renewable for an additional two years is provided in accordance with Ministry of Higher Education regulations. Anticipated Start Date: Fall Semester, 2005=20 To Apply: Send your letter of application, CV, and names and addresses(postal & email) of three referees to:=20 The Dean (dean@mcbs.edu.om)=20 MCBS, PO Box 100, PC 133, Al Khuwair, Sultanate of Oman=20 FAX: 968 244 827 29=20 www.mcbs.edu.om ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 09:11:07 +0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nicholas Karavatos Subject: JOB: Instructor/Assistant Professor - Department of Humanities and Social Sciences - Muscat, Oman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Instructor/Assistant Professor The Modern College of Business and Science, MCBS, has an opening for a junior faculty member to teach in the Department of Humanities and Social Sciences. The college will consider applicants with either a Doctorate degree in Philosophy or in a traditional social science area. Prior teaching experience in the Arabian gulf a plus. Responsibilities include teaching 12 hours at the undergraduate level and student advising. Salary commensurate with experience and education. Anticipated Start Date: Fall semester, 2005 To Apply: Send your letter of application, CV, statement of teaching and research interests, and names and addresses (postal & email) of three referees to:=20 The Dean (dean@mcbs.edu.om)=20 MCBS, PO Box 100, PC 133, Al Khuwair, Sultanate of Oman FAX: 968 244 827 29 www.mcbs.edu.om ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 00:34:29 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: Thigh, the thing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Can you 'read' an orgasm? Yes, just be careful who you do it around. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 00:36:38 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: Satirical Poetry? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Simulcast, by Ben Friedlander, has had me laughing myself to sleep for the past week. This post from Mike Kelleher is making me laugh myself to sleep also. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 01:25:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Thigh, the thing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed some comments below - Alan On Fri, 4 Feb 2005, konrad wrote: > But still if "reading is all there is" then writing is all there > is too. I mean they only come together, no? > Not necessarily - re Foucault for example on divinatio, 'reading' the book of nature. Stratigraphy is still treated that way informally. Writing usually supposes intention; it's to some extent from the fallacy of unintended writing that deity is presumed - someone had to write, to place things in such a manner that interpretation is possible. One can argue that the universe for example is information only, along the lines of dna/rna, that fundamental particles can be 'exhausted' in terms of ontology in relation to their parameteres (within probabilistic models of coruse). But it's only 'information' in the reading; otherwise, it's mute - and one can further argue perhaps that the reading itself is mute - that the only 'thing going on' is the local assignation of meaning among one or another group of organisms. > Can you 'read' an orgasm? Isn't ecstatic experience often > pointed to as the origin of religious texts. Then they > sometimes famously declare that the 'beginning' is pegged at the > transition to the social, when that experience gets put into > 'the word.' It seems like a dominant thread of your (Alan's) own > writing seems to be a kind of biting the hand that feeds: a > 'readerly' assault on the syntax that's made by projecting > ecstatic experience into time, an attack on the root of 'the > strong's perogative.' Well, I'm not sure that 'reading orgasm' is relevant? Or if it is, I'm not sure how. I also haven't seen ecstatic experience as an origin of such texts - more things like local explanation, fear of death, unexplained catastrophes and the like. Certainly the word has had creative power ascribed to it (which brings up a theme I talk about a lot, the performativity of codework/computers in general); I think this stems from the gestural content of early language or protolanguage - calling for 'help' or 'food' is identified with danger and nourishment in a deep way. In my own work I see the simultaneities of reading/writing/machine/organ/ organism; I don't see the experience as ecstatic so much as supposedly or abjectly ecstatic, replete with the fecundity of death. And yes, an attack - I agree with you; otherwise we are silenced vis-a-vis the differend, beneath the strong so to speak, not unlike what is happening to the enunciation of the Democrats (sorry for the stupid phrase) at the moment - dispersed, speaking weakly, effectively silenced. > > Doesn't it seem like reading changes writing and vice versa? I'd say no, not necessarily; in fact writing, to the extent of the stratigraphic (or even protocols) is necessarily obdurate, inert - to use a phrase not mine (Rosset's) - 'idiotic' - it's there. It may or may not have been intended. In codework reading/writing are tangled, complicit, but even there, there's a release. In fact, even with interactive work, the release holds; there's always power in the inscription - it was William Gibson for example who, years ago, created a cdrom which could only be played once. > (It actually takes me quite a lot of energy to read some texts!) Absolutely! > But that's not the only feedback loop in town. For one thing > there's textual corruption. There's also performance which (as > David Larsen and Michelle Tea demonstrated last night at New > Langton Arts in SF) is more than speech. And then also work in > film, music, etc that exceeds the written/read horizon. Well, I don't doubt this about performance. I'm not so sure about film - there's a discussion on empyre at the moment about the necessity of archiving. Most human artifacts decay, but decay is also a reading of a material condition; with Japanese wabi no sabi, one might take it to an extreme and argue against decay even at the limits. So it's complex - _if_ writing is humanly or organically/intentionally inscribed, _then_ one can consider the interference of reading changing the writing; I'd argue that author or not, Power is in the background, and reading is always a lending-oneself-to the text at hand, just as in, say, watching a film, one gives oneself up temporarily, not unlike on one hand Coleridge's willing suspension of disbelief, or Bharata's idea of layered coding producing meaning in the spectator. Which is not to say that the interpretation of texts doesn't change over time - or even texts - look at how variants of the Dao have changed as new manuscripts have been discovered. Or Gnostic texts, Dead Sea Scrolls, etc. - with these 'older' texts, always already palimpsests, there is always the broken from the viewpoint of hermeneutics. Again, though, even the collocation of early texts, say, of Genesis (B'rashit) imposes a background of language, lettering, humans now scurrying up whatever scaffolding remains. > > Thinking of this relentless mill of response and intepretation, > i'm reminded of the end of a long line Kerouac's > ' ... Lucien Midnight for my name, > and concocted up a world so nothing you had forever thereafter > make believe it's real.' > It's all real, it's all real - Thanks for your reply of course - Alan > > konrad > > ^Z > > > > > > - Alan > > > > Alex > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Alan > Sondheim> > > To: > POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > > Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 9:00 PM > > Subject: Thign, the Thing > > > > > > Thign, the Thing > > > > Islam in Cyberspace, Christians, Jews in Cyberspace. > > Fatwa and Midrash in Cyberspace, Dogma in Cyberspace. > > The Energy it takes to construct Deity. > > Within this protocol, this particular site. > > Which is the site on a particular hard-drive. > > Or a site networked across numerous hard-drives. > > The heads reach down almost to the surface. > > They fly above the surface and skim the surface. > > They read the writing on the surface. > > The surface is a world which seems familiar. > > Or nothing moves, nothing motivated, solid memory. > > The memory of non-volatile transformation of states. > > What, is inscribed: difference. > > How, the transformation of electrical impulses. > > Or focused frequencies of the electromagnetic spectrum. > > Heating, for example, radiation for example. > > Strong and weak magnetic fields. > > To write is the prerogative of the strong. > > To read is the license of the weak. > > Reading changes nothing; creation is in the writing. > > In the writing of the thign, in the process of it. > > The thign-thing religion in cyberspace. > > (Creation and the desertion of creation.) > > > > _ > > > nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 23:56:53 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: Thign, the Thing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Alan That may be fascinating: but the voltage or current used to write to a disk can't be compared to the energy used by the brain! They are very different systems (perhaps very distantly analogous ) - but you are somehow using the"model" of religions or religion with their - supposedly - uninterpretible texts - impervious to reading - as a model to a - say - the reading of your own work by those who take on the challenge -which is pretty difficult if we are to "scan the disk" closely (and if scanned enough and inetrpreted too much the 'data' may be corrupted )- or interpret or explicate (as far as we can) the text - and its greater meaning in the order of the greater "whole"of which that post was one part in the projectual jig saw (as usual you are almost endlessly formally inventive and I feel you have a great capacity with/for language -apart from the "meaning" (or intention) or other of your text - now if I was reading say John Ashbery for example I wouldn't really worry too much about the complexities of (of the text in front of me) ( his writing at best has a haunting quality -in fact at its best it seems he is talking to each reader - the reader feels it is he or she who is being addressed...but he is very different kind of poet/writer) whether I needed to interpret more or too much - in fact to better "read" writing such as yours I have started reading some books referring to and or by Derrida (and other related subjects)- so if I do get really into the great Sondeim project you might be able to light up a city with my brain in action! That is a stylistic or methodological or philosophical (or even metaphyical?) difference between you and say Nudel or Steve or probably myself as I have written... your whole text seems to be - must surely be? -determined almost to the last t or g or whatever (every "mark" every grapheme? - there is nothing (?) aleatory in here if any - and you deny "intuition" (although - the meaning of that word is problematic) and so on Something (has to?) catch the reader though - and on a superficial level the enormous variations of your texts fascinate - in appearance (in some cases literally the layout -and some of your visual images disturb - or fascinate - and that is good - although some of he disturbing ones I found/find very disturbing - that was interesting because I couldn't say exactly why they disturbed..) and in tone and so on - language or "timbre" of each - the "voice" from each Would you call yourself a kind of postmodern Pound or Zukofsky? (Not comparing "levels" - just probing) The Great Postmodern Sondheimian Epic - how will your project be named or be referred to - or is naming out? Whatever - keep sending - So you really are 62 ? I just turned 57 !! On the 2nd of February - I was born in 1948 - in Auckland, new Zealand, to English parents. I am glad they came here as this country is a great country - and I have had a (mostly) great life - it is possible to live well on a low income here... even on a high income!! (If one is wise..) Cheers -belated happy birthday!! Richard Taylor richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet / Chess Addict/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: ----------------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."------------------ Aspect Books (N.Z.) on www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 10:12 PM Subject: Re: Thign, the Thing > Hi - I absolutely agree with you. What fascinates me is that - in order to > write to a disk, etc. - you need a stronger current or voltage than to > read; reading is a process that leaves the original alone. Yet reading in > a sense is all there is; the world is interpretable, and out of such > interpretation we construct meaning. But if we interfere too much, > interpretation is lost, meaning corrodes. > > The originary texts of various monotheisms are thought impervious to > reading, to interpretation; they are there purely for the performative > telling - out of which stems the violence of the letter itself. > > - Alan > > On Thu, 3 Feb 2005, alexander saliby wrote: > >> Alan wrote: "Reading changes nothing; creation is in the writing..." >> >> Alan, I loved this piece, but at the same time I find it full of logical >> and emotional flaws akin to the opening quote. >> >> Reading, actually changes everything...one learns to read and one learns >> to open worlds of ideas not of one's intellectual short-comings, but of >> the intellectual strengths of others. >> >> One supposes this: in point of fact: "...writing changes nothing; >> creation is in the reading..." for it is only in the afterthought of the >> moment of inception that meaning begins to play a role. And it is only >> after a reader has ascribed meaning that a moment of truth is born. And >> it is only from truth that values develop. >> >> Isn't this the genuine value of the reader/writer relationship? A writer >> may pontificate all year long, and that which the writer has devised, may >> in fact have both intellectual merit and ideological beauty, but until a >> reader enters the scene and stamps the message, "valuable" the work >> remains cold, useless, worthless...nothing. >> >> Alex >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Alan Sondheim >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 9:00 PM >> Subject: Thign, the Thing >> >> >> Thign, the Thing >> >> Islam in Cyberspace, Christians, Jews in Cyberspace. >> Fatwa and Midrash in Cyberspace, Dogma in Cyberspace. >> The Energy it takes to construct Deity. >> Within this protocol, this particular site. >> Which is the site on a particular hard-drive. >> Or a site networked across numerous hard-drives. >> The heads reach down almost to the surface. >> They fly above the surface and skim the surface. >> They read the writing on the surface. >> The surface is a world which seems familiar. >> Or nothing moves, nothing motivated, solid memory. >> The memory of non-volatile transformation of states. >> What, is inscribed: difference. >> How, the transformation of electrical impulses. >> Or focused frequencies of the electromagnetic spectrum. >> Heating, for example, radiation for example. >> Strong and weak magnetic fields. >> To write is the prerogative of the strong. >> To read is the license of the weak. >> Reading changes nothing; creation is in the writing. >> In the writing of the thign, in the process of it. >> The thign-thing religion in cyberspace. >> (Creation and the desertion of creation.) >> >> _ >> > > > > nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ > http://www.asondheim.org/ > WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ > http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim > Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 01:01:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: Thigh, the thing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original "Well, I don't doubt this about performance." Isnt performance also a kind of complex language -part of the larger "text" ? I'm not so sure about film - there's a discussion on empyre at the moment about the necessity of archiving. Most human artifacts decay, but decay is also a reading of a material condition; with Japanese wabi no sabi, one might take it to an extreme and argue against decay even at the limits." Everything decays. [I think of Tennyson's poem - is it 'Tithonus' (he cant die but continues to age) - The woods decay the woods decay and fall...And after many a summer dies the swan".] In which case - what do they mean - "the neccessity of archiving? you/they mean the necessity of good and or efficient archiving - literally - all information storage systems corrupt -so eventually all information - everything - is obliterated. But you say that above - but the or some of the Japanese believe nothing decays...? Does this connect to this you said: "In my own work I see the simultaneities of reading/writing/machine/organ/ organism; I don't see the experience as ecstatic so much as supposedly or abjectly ecstatic, replete with the fecundity of death." What do you mean by "the fecundity of death" ..... if there were no death - I believe - life would indeed be terrible - but why are you "abjectly ecstatic" - get aestheta-ecstatic man!! (Abject before death? God? is there a God?) For tommmorrow we die.... These are fascinating 'exaplantions' Alan -even your comments are poetic! Hmmm - "reading an orgasm" (not your phrase i know) - I have experienced some but never desired to read one!! Richard Taylor richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet / Chess Addict/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: ----------------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."------------------ Aspect Books (N.Z.) on www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 10:25 PM Subject: Re: Thigh, the thing > some comments below - Alan > > On Fri, 4 Feb 2005, konrad wrote: > >> But still if "reading is all there is" then writing is all there >> is too. I mean they only come together, no? >> > Not necessarily - re Foucault for example on divinatio, 'reading' the book > of nature. Stratigraphy is still treated that way informally. Writing > usually supposes intention; it's to some extent from the fallacy of > unintended writing that deity is presumed - someone had to write, to place > things in such a manner that interpretation is possible. > > One can argue that the universe for example is information only, along the > lines of dna/rna, that fundamental particles can be 'exhausted' in terms > of ontology in relation to their parameteres (within probabilistic models > of coruse). But it's only 'information' in the reading; otherwise, it's > mute - and one can further argue perhaps that the reading itself is mute - > that the only 'thing going on' is the local assignation of meaning among > one or another group of organisms. > >> Can you 'read' an orgasm? Isn't ecstatic experience often >> pointed to as the origin of religious texts. Then they >> sometimes famously declare that the 'beginning' is pegged at the >> transition to the social, when that experience gets put into >> 'the word.' It seems like a dominant thread of your (Alan's) own >> writing seems to be a kind of biting the hand that feeds: a >> 'readerly' assault on the syntax that's made by projecting >> ecstatic experience into time, an attack on the root of 'the >> strong's perogative.' > > Well, I'm not sure that 'reading orgasm' is relevant? Or if it is, I'm not > sure how. I also haven't seen ecstatic experience as an origin of such > texts - more things like local explanation, fear of death, unexplained > catastrophes and the like. Certainly the word has had creative power > ascribed to it (which brings up a theme I talk about a lot, the > performativity of codework/computers in general); I think this stems from > the gestural content of early language or protolanguage - calling for > 'help' or 'food' is identified with danger and nourishment in a deep way. > > In my own work I see the simultaneities of reading/writing/machine/organ/ > organism; I don't see the experience as ecstatic so much as supposedly or > abjectly ecstatic, replete with the fecundity of death. And yes, an attack > - I agree with you; otherwise we are silenced vis-a-vis the differend, > beneath the strong so to speak, not unlike what is happening to the > enunciation of the Democrats (sorry for the stupid phrase) at the moment - > dispersed, speaking weakly, effectively silenced. >> >> Doesn't it seem like reading changes writing and vice versa? > > I'd say no, not necessarily; in fact writing, to the extent of the > stratigraphic (or even protocols) is necessarily obdurate, inert - to use > a phrase not mine (Rosset's) - 'idiotic' - it's there. It may or may not > have been intended. In codework reading/writing are tangled, complicit, > but even there, there's a release. In fact, even with interactive work, > the release holds; there's always power in the inscription - it was > William Gibson for example who, years ago, created a cdrom which could > only be played once. > >> (It actually takes me quite a lot of energy to read some texts!) > > Absolutely! > >> But that's not the only feedback loop in town. For one thing >> there's textual corruption. There's also performance which (as >> David Larsen and Michelle Tea demonstrated last night at New >> Langton Arts in SF) is more than speech. And then also work in >> film, music, etc that exceeds the written/read horizon. > > Well, I don't doubt this about performance. I'm not so sure about film - > there's a discussion on empyre at the moment about the necessity of > archiving. Most human artifacts decay, but decay is also a reading of a > material condition; with Japanese wabi no sabi, one might take it to an > extreme and argue against decay even at the limits. > > So it's complex - _if_ writing is humanly or organically/intentionally > inscribed, _then_ one can consider the interference of reading changing > the writing; I'd argue that author or not, Power is in the background, and > reading is always a lending-oneself-to the text at hand, just as in, say, > watching a film, one gives oneself up temporarily, not unlike on one hand > Coleridge's willing suspension of disbelief, or Bharata's idea of layered > coding producing meaning in the spectator. > > Which is not to say that the interpretation of texts doesn't change over > time - or even texts - look at how variants of the Dao have changed as new > manuscripts have been discovered. Or Gnostic texts, Dead Sea Scrolls, etc. > - with these 'older' texts, always already palimpsests, there is always > the broken from the viewpoint of hermeneutics. > > Again, though, even the collocation of early texts, say, of Genesis > (B'rashit) imposes a background of language, lettering, humans now > scurrying up whatever scaffolding remains. >> >> Thinking of this relentless mill of response and intepretation, >> i'm reminded of the end of a long line Kerouac's >> ' ... Lucien Midnight for my name, >> and concocted up a world so nothing you had forever thereafter >> make believe it's real.' >> > It's all real, it's all real - > > Thanks for your reply of course - > > Alan > >> >> konrad >> >> ^Z >> >> >> >> >> >> - Alan >> >> >> > Alex >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Alan >> Sondheim> >> > To: >> POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> >> > Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 9:00 PM >> > Subject: Thign, the Thing >> > >> > >> > Thign, the Thing >> > >> > Islam in Cyberspace, Christians, Jews in Cyberspace. >> > Fatwa and Midrash in Cyberspace, Dogma in Cyberspace. >> > The Energy it takes to construct Deity. >> > Within this protocol, this particular site. >> > Which is the site on a particular hard-drive. >> > Or a site networked across numerous hard-drives. >> > The heads reach down almost to the surface. >> > They fly above the surface and skim the surface. >> > They read the writing on the surface. >> > The surface is a world which seems familiar. >> > Or nothing moves, nothing motivated, solid memory. >> > The memory of non-volatile transformation of states. >> > What, is inscribed: difference. >> > How, the transformation of electrical impulses. >> > Or focused frequencies of the electromagnetic spectrum. >> > Heating, for example, radiation for example. >> > Strong and weak magnetic fields. >> > To write is the prerogative of the strong. >> > To read is the license of the weak. >> > Reading changes nothing; creation is in the writing. >> > In the writing of the thign, in the process of it. >> > The thign-thing religion in cyberspace. >> > (Creation and the desertion of creation.) >> > >> > _ >> > >> > > > > nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ > http://www.asondheim.org/ > WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ > http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim > Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 09:23:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: "Aftershock" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Aftershock Of the huge dead. Of upscale retail centers in our city. Of closing loopholes in the corporate tax code. Of course, we’d welcome these or any images based on legislation passed in several states, or news that the Weather Underground’s gift shop will remain open until 9 o’clock on warm summer evenings. Far from charging sales taxes on the chemicals purchased by major terrorists and agribusinesses, the government is thought to be preparing a press release stating that it has no comment on that subject. Keeps our economy and people moving, keeps one eye on the door, one foot on the accelerator at all times—until offered a discount of 15% off the regular admissions price for R-rated features. I particularly admired this old hardware store with its nineteenth-century fixtures. He gently wipes it with a tattered sleeve, saying, “I will be true to the wife.” Because too many students threw pennies in the pool, its water was no longer blue, and the conferees had to spend the night sleeping on the hard-wood floor of the basketball court, tossing fitfully, dreaming of road and site improvements that would cost 50 million to 75 million dollars (not counting kickbacks). My dear, it is too late for peace, too late for philanthropic phalaropes to adjust their lobate toes to current market conditions. Down the wilde road the travelers proceeded, happy to be on the move again after their enforced leisure caused by drifting snow and a deliberate underfunding of public transportation. Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 11:00:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Mac Low essay Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Bookforum's February/March issue -- print and web -- includes my memorial tribute to Jackson Mac Low: http://www.bookforum.com/bernstein.html Charles Bernstein ----------------------------------------------------- http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/new.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 08:31:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Ossie Davis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Ossie Davis=20 A small Moment for a Huge Man I touched his hand Oh, a thousand years ago now it seems in mid-town he leaped off the stage at final curtain jumped down among us the awe-struck audience shook our hands smiled put his huge arms around our shoulders and as if it were he who owed us for his skills he thanked us. Imagine that, he thanked us... "Thank you for coming," =20 and he still wore the tattered shirt; he grasped hands held eye-contact with perfect strangers charmed us with both his wit=20 and his personal warmth then in a moment he was gone... backstage, perhaps. =20 He was a large man dwarfed only by his enormous talent and larger still=20 his dignity both on and off stage. =20 Ossie's gone backstage again Hurry Back, Ossie I miss you already.=20 Alex=20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 09:35:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jon Corelis Subject: Idolatry (was Thigh, the thing) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D I venture the thought -- sacrilegious though it might appear -- that our ancestors who had a hand in the composition and editing of the text were profoundly involved in work that entailed the sin of idolatry, worshippin= g a God of their own creation; and that many who live within the context of t= heir work may worship a God fashioned by human beings. For today we are aware= , as the work of so many students of the Bible has indicated, that the shaping= of the image of God in the text was a human enterprise. If we are to regain= an authentic religiosity, it is essential that we refrain from making images= of God. The nature of God must remain a mystery. Should we, at any time, c= ome to feel that we have solved the mystery of the characteristics of God, th= en, indeed, would we be in sin. Should we ever come to believe that we have solved that mystery, all the refreshment of existence associated with hum= an religiosity will be gone. -- David Bakan, And They Took Themselves Wives: The = Emergence of Patriarchy in Western Civilization (San Francisco: Harper & Row 1979) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The above comments by a religious scholar and psychologist suggest that t= hose who insist on a literal interpretation of a religious text are guilty of idolatry: they are worshipping the object, the text, not what the object= , the text, represents. Perhaps applying this to poetry can clarify the point = I was trying to make previously by quoting Govinda on poetry as mantra. Try it this way: What is it that a poem really is? Is it the text of it= ? If we think so, we are commiting the sin of idolatry. What a poem really is= , is an act of worship. Like any valid act of worship, it is a communal actio= n. = What the poem really is, is what happens to us and the people who listen = to it when we utter it. This action can take place in imagination, but if it doesn't take place, the poem remains a text, an empty doll, an idol. Any= poetics based on the assumption that what a poem really is, is its text, = will never support the refreshment of existence associated with poetry. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org = www.geocities.com/joncpoetics =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ____________________________________________________________________ = ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 10:45:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: Idolatry (was Thigh, the thing) In-Reply-To: <093JBeRj83584S13.1107624959@uwdvg013.cms.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed sounds like worship of poetry = worship of god here is it idolatry to think of the poem as more materialist than that? even to want it to be more materialist than that? and if you want to center on what happens when the poem is read (individually or communally) as what is really important, that's fine. but does that have to be "the poem?" and do i need to think of it as *worship?* that would ultimately seem to give the poem a place beyond what i want to give it, beyond my own intervention, beyond its status as object. yet it also lessens the poem, in favor of some essential-ness beyond the poem, maybe some desire on the part of reader(s) that may not have anything to do with the poem. why can't "the text" remain "the text" without lessening all that happens because of the presence of that text? object of study, object of contemplation, object of interest, even object of desire, yes all of these and more . . . but object of worship? i'm not quite ready to go there. charles At 10:35 AM 2/5/2005, you wrote: >================== > >I venture the thought -- sacrilegious though it might appear -- that our >ancestors who had a hand in the composition and editing of the text were >profoundly involved in work that entailed the sin of idolatry, worshipping a >God of their own creation; and that many who live within the context of their >work may worship a God fashioned by human beings. For today we are aware, as >the work of so many students of the Bible has indicated, that the shaping of >the image of God in the text was a human enterprise. If we are to regain an >authentic religiosity, it is essential that we refrain from making images of >God. The nature of God must remain a mystery. Should we, at any time, come >to feel that we have solved the mystery of the characteristics of God, then, >indeed, would we be in sin. Should we ever come to believe that we have >solved that mystery, all the refreshment of existence associated with human >religiosity will be gone. > > -- David Bakan, And They Took Themselves Wives: The > Emergence of Patriarchy in Western Civilization > (San Francisco: Harper & Row 1979) > >================== > >The above comments by a religious scholar and psychologist suggest that those >who insist on a literal interpretation of a religious text are guilty of >idolatry: they are worshipping the object, the text, not what the object, the >text, represents. Perhaps applying this to poetry can clarify the point I was >trying to make previously by quoting Govinda on poetry as mantra. > >Try it this way: What is it that a poem really is? Is it the text of it? If >we think so, we are commiting the sin of idolatry. What a poem really is, is >an act of worship. Like any valid act of worship, it is a communal action. >What the poem really is, is what happens to us and the people who listen to it >when we utter it. This action can take place in imagination, but if it >doesn't take place, the poem remains a text, an empty doll, an idol. Any >poetics based on the assumption that what a poem really is, is its text, will >never support the refreshment of existence associated with poetry. > > >===================================== >Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org > > www.geocities.com/joncpoetics >===================================== > > >____________________________________________________________________ > charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 15:45:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: various on reading/writing response to richard.tylr MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed >From richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ Sat Feb 5 05:56:57 2005 Alan That may be fascinating: but the voltage or current used to write to a disk can't be compared to the energy used by the brain! They are very different systems (perhaps very distantly analogous ) - but you are somehow using the"model" of religions or religion with their - supposedly - uninterpretible texts - impervious to reading - =======I'm not saying the texts are uninterpretable at all - all there is, in fact is interpretation. They're not impervious to reading; they're not mutated, as material substrate, by reading, although they might physically decay. What I'm saying is that the writing, even aleatoric or generative writing, carries with it structure/scaffolding/authority, even if it is destroyed in the reading, qua Gibson. The reading, which is the formulation of meaning, hermeneutics, interpretation, is something else altogether. I point to the 'reading' involved in stratigraphy or for example DNA/RNA. That is a stylistic or methodological or philosophical (or even metaphyical?) difference between you and say Nudel or Steve or probably myself as I have written... your whole text seems to be - must surely be? -determined almost to the last t or g or whatever (every "mark" every grapheme? - there is nothing (?) aleatory in here if any - and you deny "intuition" (although - the meaning of that word is problematic) and so on ======= I agree but I think all texts are determined in this fashion, one way or another. There's nothing truly random in Nudel or Steve - but let's say there was - the very act of recording/setting it down, establishes a text - there it is, written; it can be changed later by someone else, but it's already got the handle of power, of authority... Something (has to?) catch the reader though - and on a superficial level the found/find very disturbing - that was interesting because I couldn't say exactly why they disturbed..) and in tone and so on - language or "timbre" of each - the "voice" from each ====== For me, that's when an image 'works' for a viewer, when it opens an anomalous space - Would you call yourself a kind of postmodern Pound or Zukofsky? (Not comparing "levels" - just probing) The Great Postmodern Sondheimian Epic - how will your project be named or be referred to - or is naming out? ====== I don't relate much to either... I'm reading parts of Dante's Purgatorio (old Penguin translation) again... Look at Beatrice! So you really are 62 ? I just turned 57 !! On the 2nd of February - I was born in 1948 - in Auckland, new Zealand, to English parents. I am glad they came here as this country is a great country - and I have had a (mostly) great life - it is possible to live well on a low income here... even on a high income!! (If one is wise..) ======= Happy birthday to you as well! >From richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ Sat Feb 5 07:01:48 2005 "Well, I don't doubt this about performance." Isnt performance also a kind of complex language -part of the larger "text" ? ======== I'd think it's a language the same way Christian Metz found film a 'language' - which is to say highly problematic. But a film has different archival issues of course than performance - or dance - ironically perhaps only film can do them justice - In which case - what do they mean - "the neccessity of archiving? you/they mean the necessity of good and or efficient archiving - literally - all information storage systems corrupt -so eventually all information - everything - is obliterated. But you say that above - but the or some of the Japanese believe nothing decays...? ========= "necessity of archiving" is my phrase; I couldn't hold anyone else to it. I just mean the archiving of digital media within digital media, the archiving of the "Net" which is clearly one sort of image or imaginary of our cultures... "In my own work I see the simultaneities of reading/writing/machine/organ/ organism; I don't see the experience as ecstatic so much as supposedly or abjectly ecstatic, replete with the fecundity of death." What do you mean by "the fecundity of death" ..... if there were no death - I believe - life would indeed be terrible - but why are you "abjectly ecstatic" - get aestheta-ecstatic man!! (Abject before death? God? is there a God?) For tommmorrow we die.... ====== Well, psychologically, depression enters into the picture, but death is surely fecund, replete with potential, possibilities, moreso perhaps than even sexuality, which revolves around a loose anthology of scenarios. Death is that inconceivable blank; we write against it, but also fill in so that there's witness after we're gone... Hmmm - "reading an orgasm" (not your phrase i know) - I have experienced some but never desired to read one!! ======= Actually I'd like to read one; some of the work in the ln or l.txt done with Kim McGlynn deals with this. - Alan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 13:08:22 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: poetry hosting job in LA -- more info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I answered the query -- still not sure if I'll pursue or not -- but seems decent Catherine Daly Thank you for contacting me regarding the ad for the Host Position I've had such a great response, (god bless Craigslist), that I thought I would send out this basic info-email and allow everyone to have a better understanding of what's going on. I apologize for the "spam like" look. Let me tell you about what I need. Every week there will be a performance dedicated to the art of spoken word / poetry. I'm a big stickler for creative freedom, SO the person chosen will essentially have complete creative freedom and control of this show. You will be picking the acts, scheduling the show, even performing if you so choose. It would be like me giving you a theater to express yourself and do whatever you want. I need someone who has a passion and dream for a creative environment like this. After you prove yourself, you will also be given special privileges for the theater. If you want to start your own poetry / writers / music workshop, you'll have a space to run it from. Have a full length script you've always wanted to produce. I will help you there as well. There are many possibilities and I love hearing new ideas. Now let me see if I can talk you out of it. It is a lot of fun, but there IS a little work involved. You are responsible for the show going on. You have to meet with new up and coming artists. You must give fair schedules to all performers. And I have to be able to trust you with the door money knowing that you will do the correct math and not lose any. There will be people that believe you are the owner, and that's fine with me, but I need someone who is going to have that kind of pride and passion to treat the theater like they own it I will give you the weekly time slot , space and facility to develop your creative world. You must give me the assurance that the show will go on every week. If you can't be there, then there should be a guest host scheduled. Tickets to every show will be $7.00. For every ticket sold, the theater will take $5.00 and you will take $2.00. If you would like to set up a concession stand and sell drinks & snacks. You will be able to keep any and all profits from this. The theater can fit 50 to 60 people so there is a little money that can be made. If the show does well, you will walk with some serious pocket change. If the show doesn't do well..I will eat the cost in the spirit of nurturing the night and allowing the project to grow and build a following.. If you are responding to this in hopes of quitting the day job and looking for the big bucks..delete this NOW. Go away! I'm not looking for someone who is strictly money motivated. I will putting up the backing of the facilities and long term support. I would (and most of the time after all bills are paid) do this for free because this is my passion and it's what I love. So there you have it in a nutshell. Still there? Still interested? GREAT. Then call me direct at 323-850-7827 and I'll set up a time for us to meet and talk. If you have any further questions. You can ask them at the website, (thus assuring that everyone gets all the info), located at www.berubians.com . Just look for the link talking about poetry night host and ask away! I once again thank you for responding and I'm really looking forward to getting this show started again. Thanks!, and I'll talk to you soon Chris Berube Owner / Artistic Director The Next Stage Theater ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 17:37:31 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: The Slightest Ripple Shall Sink Sure As Lycidas Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed foxes standing in sun chips, their certain little leaps cannot be grave across AND underfoot: see, there, Virginia, THERE, there's the genial rot to the scentless dead a meadow reprieve, it seems, was afoot ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 19:08:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: konrad Subject: Re: Thigh, thy thing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed [alan's remarks in quotemarks] > But still if "reading is all there is" then writing is all there > is too. I mean they only come together, no? > "Not necessarily - re Foucault for example on divinatio, 'reading' the book of nature. Stratigraphy is still treated that way informally. Writing usually supposes intention; it's to some extent from the fallacy of unintended writing that deity is presumed - someone had to write, to place things in such a manner that interpretation is possible." [snip] It may be that i get backed into an 'intelligent design' position with what i wrote there. My sense of reading is reserved for what can be parsed, what has syntax, and i don't think that exhausts experience. That's why i have a disagreement when you say 'in a sense, everything is reading.' But you're correct, it's wrong to conclude if 'everything is reading everything is writing,' and it should have concluded "... everything is a text." > Can you 'read' an orgasm? Isn't ecstatic experience often > pointed to as the origin of religious texts. Then they > sometimes famously declare that the 'beginning' is pegged at the > transition to the social, when that experience gets put into > 'the word.' It seems like a dominant thread of your (Alan's) own > writing seems to be a kind of biting the hand that feeds: a > 'readerly' assault on the syntax that's made by projecting > ecstatic experience into time, an attack on the root of 'the > strong's perogative.' "Well, I'm not sure that 'reading orgasm' is relevant? Or if it is, I'm not sure how. I also haven't seen ecstatic experience as an origin of such texts - more things like local explanation, fear of death, unexplained catastrophes and the like. Certainly the word has had creative power ascribed to it (which brings up a theme I talk about a lot, the performativity of codework/computers in general); I think this stems from the gestural content of early language or protolanguage - calling for 'help' or 'food' is identified with danger and nourishment in a deep way." I think that what you are referring to are certain interpretations of why such texts exist (in an anthropological framework). But to take an example someone just this morning reminded me about: Joseph Smith's book founding the Church of the LSD religion can be seen as 'local explanation' or it can be seen as 'divine inspiration.' The question isn't what was in the re-buried plates, but what to they represent? My appeal to a category of "ecstatic" is because it seems like something everyone can be aware of -- hence the example of orgasm, and i appreciate that could be extended as you suggest to any kind of 'dissolution' (or bardo) relating to death, fear, desire or bliss. I just never would have the sense that i was 'interpreting' something like that, of course until later, after it's gone. To me the power aspect you rightly refer to is exercised at that 'after' moment (Lenny Bruce : "Didja come? Didjacome? Didjacomegood?"), when the experience is unpacked in time, expressed, doubted or believed, whether it's a transition that involved inscription, speech or action. What is the special nature of writing that you're trying to bracket? "In my own work I see the simultaneities of reading/writing/machine/organ/ organism; I don't see the experience as ecstatic so much as supposedly or abjectly ecstatic, replete with the fecundity of death. And yes, an attack - I agree with you; otherwise we are silenced vis-a-vis the differend, beneath the strong so to speak, not unlike what is happening to the enunciation of the Democrats (sorry for the stupid phrase) at the moment - dispersed, speaking weakly, effectively silenced." [snip] yes, agree, very clear. > But that's not the only feedback loop in town. For one thing > there's textual corruption. There's also performance [snip] > film, music, etc that exceeds the written/read horizon. "Well, I don't doubt this about performance. I'm not so sure about film - there's a discussion on empyre at the moment about the necessity of archiving. Most human artifacts decay, but decay is also a reading of a material condition; with Japanese wabi no sabi, one might take it to an extreme and argue against decay even at the limits." [snip] I guess by 'corruption' i was thinking about mis-readings, or typos mostly, noise on the line rather than material decay, and with regard to performance i'm thinking how overdetermination of text in performance feeds a text back onto itself, even while it can be originary for me (if i don't have access to the script). But let me be more specific about my concerns with 'everything is reading.' As a filmmaker what i'm most familiar with is experimental cinema, about which it's odd to talk of texts, since the work must be performed. Because of this, though it is clearly inscribed in dye patterns or magnetic patterns on a base strip, it is farther out of reach than any written poem. To use some well known examples i'll refer to a difference between Vertov's idea of a "kino eye" language, of truth (Pravda) through the new organ of the camera/cinema, and Brakhage's work with images that subvert the irresistible urge to read. My pedestrian sense of what you say when you say 'everything is reading' is that feeling i get of when i'm out and i see a sign or something, a car door opening in front of me on my bike, or a pile of dog shit on the sidewalk: i can't not read it, i know what it means. I've tried to train myself to not read and it's like swimming against the tide. On the other hand i've been lost in Prague and Tokyo where i can't read the street signs and been very scared ("water water all around and not a drop to drink"). Watching Brakhage's films is like getting lost without the ability to read anymore. Vertov's (and allies like Abigail Child) approach is different, trying to create a native syntax for cinema so you can read and write new texts. In either case though, either you don't like them, you enjoy the experience or you have a perverse desire to LEARN TO READ them. I mean that in the positive sense of perverse. What is the state you're in before you learn to read? (A less known example of a different kind would be the films of Ernie Gehr, but that would take us way far away from poetics.) Of course there are levels of 'reading' -- like people can tell it's a Brakhage film from the style -- but it seems there is not-reading too, usually referred to as 'below' the level of reading: an interesting spatialization of the relationship! It seems to relate to ideas of subconscious perception or 'phenomena' behind (again the spatial metaphor is interesting) the representations of thought or experience. So i think the idea of reading does imply an idea of writing (perhaps agentless or intention-free, say in the way a geographer reads a landscape or doctor an x-ray), but that in any case that constitutes a HORIZON of experience. And by THAT spatial metaphor i mean to rely on the idea that 'living is round' (to quote Trinh Min-ha) and there are things beyond the horizon. > i'm reminded of the end of a long line Kerouac's > ' ... Lucien Midnight for my name, > and concocted up a world so nothing you had forever thereafter > make believe it's real.' > "It's all real, it's all real -" But the unreal way it's real is what i thought Kerouac pointed out in that line. konrad ^Z ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 16:29:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jon Corelis Subject: [poem] Balances Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Balances Gold is mute, the sea's white throat collapses on itself, flowers are indifferent to their purpose, but I say silence is its own topic. It's like a gilded skull for drinking blood: there is nothing to compare with such a draught echoing in the hollow that once held its own. Drinking blood then is a suggestion, as is the gold on the bone. Don't you understand that the balances thus established make a request, as if a crocus sprouted in the skull, or you heard the sea within its nautiline curve, holding its cheek to yours, or the words could be individually refilled with blood? I can arrange them so that each matches up with another, or I can make them all turn into one another, or I can make each one the crown of all the rest, but I cannot cross the gap between whatever I make of them and the nervous tree rooted in the mud that is the same for everyone, and you cannot get here to help me. = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org = www.geocities.com/joncpoetics =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ____________________________________________________________________ = ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 16:50:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: $'s IN POETRY? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002171624_charlie05.html= Some of you may find this interesting, if not profitable...good luck to = one and all, and best of all, to Charlie. Alex ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 00:12:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Thigh, thy thing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From konrad@PANIX.COM Sat Feb 5 19:08:53 2005 It may be that i get backed into an 'intelligent design' position with what i wrote there. My sense of reading is reserved for what can be parsed, what has syntax, and i don't think that exhausts experience. That's why i have a disagreement when you say 'in a sense, everything is reading.' But you're correct, it's wrong to conclude if 'everything is reading everything is writing,' and it should have concluded "... everything is a text." Even vision starts with retinal learning; the body itself is enfolded, encoded. The universe is syntactic, structured. - "Well, I'm not sure that 'reading orgasm' is relevant? Or if it is, I'm not sure how. I also haven't seen ecstatic experience as an origin of such texts - more things like local explanation, fear of death, unexplained catastrophes and the like. Certainly the word has had creative power ascribed to it (which brings up a theme I talk about a lot, the performativity of codework/computers in general); I think this stems from the gestural content of early language or protolanguage - calling for 'help' or 'food' is identified with danger and nourishment in a deep way." I think that what you are referring to are certain interpretations of why such texts exist (in an anthropological framework). But to take an example someone just this morning reminded me about: Joseph Smith's book founding the Church of the LSD religion can be seen as 'local explanation' or it can be seen as 'divine inspiration.' The question isn't what was in the re-buried plates, but what to they represent? My appeal to a category of "ecstatic" is because it seems like something everyone can be aware of -- hence the example of orgasm, and i appreciate that could be extended as you suggest to any kind of 'dissolution' (or bardo) relating to death, fear, desire or bliss. I just never would have the sense that i was 'interpreting' something like that, of course until later, after it's gone. === I was thrown off by "LSD religion"; you mean LDS! A huge difference. We're moving away; I didn't say that there are no ecstatic experiences; we're talking about the origin of (religious) texts. Smith's vision is just that, a vision, highly structured, and in fact the question is I think precisely what's in the plates. For that matter, orgasm is also a form of inscribing, I think; it's highly specific, chemically bound, triggered, etc. The fact that it appears transcendent or enveloping doesn't contradict this. To me the power aspect you rightly refer to is exercised at that 'after' moment (Lenny Bruce : "Didja come? Didjacome? Didjacomegood?"), when the experience is unpacked in time, expressed, doubted or believed, whether it's a transition that involved inscription, speech or action. What is the special nature of writing that you're trying to bracket? ====== Nothing in particular; I never said that writing had a "special nature." I simply gave a structured priority to writing over reading, even though the two may seem inextricably entwined. Again, an aleatoric work is still bound by the author, one way or another; even if the work is deliberately unbound, the unbinding itself is an authorial process. The reading which may or may not alter the text is a scanning hermeneutics; the two aren't equivalent, which, to get away from orgasm and back to hard drives, is why there are different voltages applied; if they were equal, reading and writing would result in deeply unreadable results. > But that's not the only feedback loop in town. For one thing > there's textual corruption. There's also performance [snip] > film, music, etc that exceeds the written/read horizon. "Well, I don't doubt this about performance. I'm not so sure about film - there's a discussion on empyre at the moment about the necessity of archiving. Most human artifacts decay, but decay is also a reading of a material condition; with Japanese wabi no sabi, one might take it to an extreme and argue against decay even at the limits." [snip] I guess by 'corruption' i was thinking about mis-readings, or typos mostly, noise on the line rather than material decay, and with regard to performance i'm thinking how overdetermination of text in performance feeds a text back onto itself, even while it can be originary for me (if i don't have access to the script). But let me be more specific about my concerns with 'everything is reading.' As a filmmaker what i'm most familiar with is experimental cinema, about which it's odd to talk of texts, since the work must be performed. Because of this, though it is clearly inscribed in dye patterns or magnetic patterns on a base strip, it is farther out of reach than any written poem. To use some well known examples i'll refer to a difference between Vertov's idea of a "kino eye" language, of truth (Pravda) through the new organ of the camera/cinema, and Brakhage's work with images that subvert the irresistible urge to read. ==== I also work in experimental cinema, and I don't think it's odd to talk of texts at all; why also must the work be performed? Is Vertov a performance? Are all screenings performances? If I show films, say, at Millennium (here), I'm showing films. I may involve them in performance, I may even perform them, I may do a Jack Smith with or without them, etc. But it's not odd to talk of text at all. As far as Brakhage goes, of course they're read; the shapes, if not abstract, are identified, there's a development based even on entry/exit of the venue, etc. Kino eye language is way different, it's a language in a sense of design, more likely given within Metz's analyses. My pedestrian sense of what you say when you say 'everything is reading' is that feeling i get of when i'm out and i see a sign or something, a car door opening in front of me on my bike, or a pile of dog shit on the sidewalk: i can't not read it, i know what it means. I've tried to train myself to not read and it's like swimming against the tide. On the other hand i've been lost in Prague and Tokyo where i can't read the street signs and been very scared ("water water all around and not a drop to drink"). Watching Brakhage's films is like getting lost without the ability to read anymore. Vertov's (and allies like Abigail Child) approach is different, trying to create a native syntax for cinema so you can read and write new texts. In either case though, either you don't like them, you enjoy the experience or you have a perverse desire to LEARN TO READ them. I mean that in the positive sense of perverse. What is the state you're in before you learn to read? (A less known example of a different kind would be the films of Ernie Gehr, but that would take us way far away from poetics.) ======= First, for me there's no native syntax at all of cinema, not even in materialist/structuralist experimental work. But you're using reading in a very very narrow sense. It's not necessarily symbolic, linear; it's cognitive processing. Zen works without this, but Zen also has specified vocabulary, often overlooked; it too is structured, and authority courses through Zen like a river. One reads from birth; smiles are interpretable, etc. As far as Tokyo goes - I can only speak of Fukuoka, without romaji at all - but one reads to the extent that the signs are ciphers; one doesn't "read" the signs in the sense of understanding the Japanese, but they're part of a configuration of a landscape - like stratigraphy again - that one processes, learns to read one way or another. On the other side lies anger, catatonia. Of course there are levels of 'reading' -- like people can tell it's a Brakhage film from the style -- but it seems there is not-reading too, usually referred to as 'below' the level of reading: an interesting spatialization of the relationship! It seems to relate to ideas of subconscious perception or 'phenomena' behind (again the spatial metaphor is interesting) the representations of thought or experience. ===== Subconscious perception - Pribram's retinal learning, Marr's 2, 2.5 d processing, Land's stuff on color perception, etc. etc. - it's all processing; it's just not conscious; it still reading/interpreting. It's interesting to look at the old text of Hadamard's on The Psychology of Mathematical Thinking in this regard. So i think the idea of reading does imply an idea of writing (perhaps agentless or intention-free, say in the way a geographer reads a landscape or doctor an x-ray), but that in any case that constitutes a HORIZON of experience. And by THAT spatial metaphor i mean to rely on the idea that 'living is round' (to quote Trinh Min-ha) and there are things beyond the horizon. ====== Here I can only disagree; we're bound by our hermeneutics, including the hermeneutics of the body. > i'm reminded of the end of a long line Kerouac's > ' ... Lucien Midnight for my name, > and concocted up a world so nothing you had forever thereafter > make believe it's real.' > "It's all real, it's all real -" But the unreal way it's real is what i thought Kerouac pointed out in that line. ====== I can't answer for Kerouac of course; the line sees capable of any number of readings. - ====== I do want to add here that I think far too much is made of the "death of the author" or the postmodernity of fluid texts - both of which are partially "true" - but what's overlooked is the very authority of texts, even given multiple and partial interpretations, readings, etc. etc. I'm more aware in hypertext that I'm bound by the author, in fact, than I am in a traditional novel; in the latter, the diegetic allows me to be involved in the "world" created between writer and reader, but in hypertext, the choices are always already limited, given as such, and the control of the author becomes apparent. We're seeing today with all forms of religious fundamentalism - the authority of the text, and its playing out - and the authority that inheres in what's called the fundamentalist notion of textual inerrancy. I also feel all of us - myself included - look for precisely non-readable/non-writable (for that matter) experiences - and there seem to be many, from sexuality to mysticism; but I think it's also important to recognize the syntactics and semantics of those experi- ences - again, there's a sense of power, and, at least for me, inerrancy that must be deconstructed. Such deconstruction doesn't point to a specific reading of a specific text, but a field of readings over and through a field of texts, and the deployment of power across and through- out both. And it's too easy, at least for me, at this point, to speak of reading and writing as similar or simultaneous, etc. - most reading and writing parallels, say, Deleuze on sadomasochism - which doesn't break down necessarily into dialectic or opposition, but the play of powers within what might be vastly different regimes. - Alan, thanks for the reply! konrad nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 00:12:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Broken History MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Broken History IRC log started Sat Feb 5 17:52 *** Value of LOG set to ON *** No target, neither channel nor query *** Current server: *** Primary server: *** Server list: *** 0) irc.mcs.net 6667 *** Unknown command: DAMN *** Unknown command: GONE-ALL-GONE IRC log ended Sat Feb 5 17:54 k19% archie Usage: archie [-acelorstvLV] [-m hits] [-N level] string -a : list matches as Alex filenames -c : case sensitive substring search -e : exact string match (default) -r : regular expression search -s : case insensitive substring search -l : list one match per line -t : sort inverted by date -m hits : specifies maximum number of hits to return (default 95) -o filename : specifies file to store results in -h host : specifies server host -L : list known servers and current default -N level : specifies query niceness level (0-35765) /net/local/lib/gopher directory (p1 of 2) Current directory is /net/local/lib/gopher drwxr-xr-x 11 root daemon 4096 Oct 29 18:16 ../ -rw-rw-r-- 1 00000163 users 2402 Oct 14 1994 About Panix's Gopher Server -rw-rw-r-- 1 root staff 2633 Nov 23 1993 About Panix's Gopher Server~ drwxr-xr-x 5 ekh users 4096 Jan 6 1998 DRB/ drwxr-xr-x 4 00000163 users 4096 Jul 12 1994 MIT-Guide/ drwxrwxr-x 15 00000030 gopher 4096 Jul 10 1995 Misc/ drwxrwxr-x 4 00000030 gopher 4096 Nov 30 1993 NYC/ drwxrwxr-x 2 00000030 gopher 4096 May 20 1994 Other/ drwxrwxr-x 2 00000030 gopher 4096 Jul 30 1994 Panix/ drwxr-xr-x 2 pnh gopher 4096 Oct 13 1995 TBON/ drwxr-xr-x 3 dfl gopher 4096 Apr 29 1996 ebikes/ -rw-r--r-- 1 00000163 users 33783 Aug 13 1994 eliz-cal -r--r--r-- 1 00000163 staff 17263 Nov 19 1993 eliz-cal~ drwxr-xr-x 3 00000163 lunacon 4096 Feb 3 1996 lunacon/ drwxr-xr-x 19 kgreenb gopher 4096 Jun 21 1995 nyart/ drwxr-xr-x 2 00000163 staff 4096 Sep 6 1994 nybc/ drwxr-xr-x 2 00000030 gopher 4096 Jan 17 1995 tmp/ Last Letter from Gol.Com I'm out of gol.com, my Japanese account. I closed it down a week early. Although they have touted themselves as far ahead of panix in my corres- pondence with them, they have repeatedly damaged their own shell accounts. They switched machines without telling anyone at times - rendering void email lists which rely on correct addressing. They got rid of emacs quite a while ago, allow no traceroute, ping, netstat, or any sort of perl and other programming - as far as I could tell, only simple shell programs would run. They change things without advance notice - including time- consuming machine repairs that they knew of in advance. I'd dial in and find the account inaccessible. At one point, they removed Pine - I had to switch to elm; they removed elm - I had to switch to mail. All this with- out notice. Of course they removed /usr/games etc. Finally, they kept reconfiguring Pine, the mailer - at this point, I couldn't even change my name. They set more and more of the so-called user options. And again, all of this without advance warning. [And Pine is now misconfigured, with an error message concerning file permissions appearing every time someone logs in.] Friday, 13 October 1995 UNDER DESTRUCTION The resources formerly found here can now be accessed on our Web site: http://www.tor.com Additional resources on the Web page include submission guidelines, the beginnings of the Tor FAQ, and links to other SF and fantasy-related material on the Internet. We're sorry, but the requested page /home/mcbryan/WWWW.html can't be found on the Computer Science Department website. Perhaps there are spelling errors or typos in the address or the page has been removed or moved to a new location. As of Monday, January 24, 2005, panix.net is not supported. WAIS * Directory of servers at CNIDR (direct access for Mosaic 2.0). * Directory of servers at wais.com (direct access for Mosaic 2.0). Internet Resources Meta-Index This document is intended to be a loosely categorized meta-index of the various resource directories and indices available on the Internet. Please send suggestions for new entries on this list (any index or directory of resources) to mosaic@ncsa.uiuc.edu. Internet Resources Metamap This is an experimental graphical metamap of some Internet information resource indices and listings. To use this metamap properly, you need a World Wide Web browser with the following capabilities: * Inlined image display with image mapping support. * Full HTTP/1.0 response code handling (without this, jumping from the metamap to the remote resource will not be transparent -- there will be an intermediate hyperlink). Mosaic for X 2.0 is known to work nicely. Mosaic for Mac 1.0 does not seem to work properly; version 1.01 should (but I haven't actually tested it yet). Simply click on the information resource you wish to see: [ISMAP:metamap.gif] The requested URL /Mosaic/metamap.map was not found on this server. +++ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 22:57:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: "Crossing the Millennium" continues Comments: cc: UK POETRY , Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Blog update: Many new days - journal entries and photographs - from "Crossing the Millenium, 1999." February 2 - 7 - for example - the journal finds itself casting about much - including Edgar Allan Poe - in Richmond, Virginia. Then back to San Francisco at the Antiquarian Book Fair among books, photographs, et al. Example: Saturday, February 13, 1999 Grotesque. The grotesque photograph. The man, the half-naked man with the solid, ballooned-out white hips. The hair around his penis. The shrunken penis. The swollen white hips. The Civil War. The man some way wounded in the Civil War. His torso inside a white, dress shirt and dark, button-down= , formal vest. The face alert. His face talking or not. =B3I am being photographed. These are my white swollen hips. The Civil War. I was in the War. This is my Doctor. This is the photographer. There is no peace. I am swollen. The War. A swelling. I carry. Around my hips. Inside. You cannot see it. But outside. You can. The Civil. White. Solid. I don=B9t want to. But I do. Forever. Carry. I carry this War.=B2 Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com =20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 02:29:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: interpret/translate/borrow & steal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit in concert (thru butch morris) rumble ramble within yourself heart/experience eat what is yours put it to use i will always be a student albeit - a bad one i don't want to know to further the domain no nohow will always remain a student notation is symbolic of music conduction is symbolic of notation writing is drowning draws you in makes you step back we interpret the tradition even if as a bad student i only guess at it - converse sneakers - all stars the label is right there read it you are a mediator of sorts as a student i must learn what i already know violist's not convinced one fights if one has never experienced something then if one is plyable one will give in give up absorb & be absorbed into never stop eating note: pearls form in mouth i have no reputation so i cannot fail learn more = discover more trust me even if you don't know me even if i am a bad student you might learn something note: pearls from mouth i am a question - an angle - a glean ale- leg multiple pitches mus(cle)i cian/ orchestra/ silver/ class in/vest/ment/ the limits of interpretation are expanded flexibility is achieved be flexible it's ok you won't get hurt even bad students can learn something move things around reduce details germinate expand/dissect put it back together exploit little melodies language/letters/words/sentences/froze in real time what?how? rise pulse live study / stud / pull over architecture - tidy 6pm + 19 a head sketch frieze is key open strike ball lark on a lark hooky fan fare car fare im port romiss snave summer minds each season different modulate stay up late place tween tween&twix reap mix & combust come bust trape comestibles / salad - roof of beam momentum ignite isolation ( g-d bless the child ) / g-d less the child 's flexibility bile-olo-genes [ rhythm section ] collectively fluegled cs20 but a no-end / in ex haust able / -> put on me to be out of this clothes closet claustrophobia startled to life & the flame begins to brew & we click the music in real time stop live action back it up see i learned how to back it up within a formation of SENSE humanitarian - grab a bragging bun and..... sleep with it me- us - whom -- plays like us/me we whom everyone who writes a pome is not creative - / glue supplemental / not alternative what you give specifically you should give in general - warm up in the back room swing along with beethoven music has the answer to music what is the answer to poetry? endless discussion on war - race - finish lines? it's ok to listen with a critical mind - but when you're critical mind gets in the way you're in trouble motive motion function unctive skill kills utility futility content content no vista - no horizon - no end steve dalachinsky nyc new school lecture by butch morris on conduction altered re/formed etc. 2/4/05-2/6/05 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 01:33:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: thy thing is in your hand MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i've always had a deathwish but within that wish was the notion i'd live forever it's difficult to imagine the world without me yet on the other hand it's quite a relief ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 09:07:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Hoerman, Michael A" Subject: blog topics: neurons in visual cortex; neural karst as metaphor; Boston contemporary art happenings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" New topics at Pornfeld -Video of neurons in visual cortex -Neural karst as metaphor for unified ground of experience and perception -Boston contemporary visual arts happenings http://pornfeld.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 09:23:33 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jon Corelis Subject: The topic in a different light Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If, in the history of every child, language is first of all a mode of ero= tic expression and then later succumbs to the domination of the reality-princ= iple, it follows, or perhaps we should say mirrors, the path taken by the human= psyche and must share the ultimate fate of the human psyche, namely neuro= sis =2E.. To regard human speech, the self-evident sign of our superiority o= ver animals, as a disease, or at least as essentially diseased, is for common= sense ... a monstrous hypothesis. Yet psychoanalysis, which insists on t= he necessary connection between cultural achievement and neurosis and betwee= n social organization and neurosis, and which therefore defines man as the neurotic animal, can hardly take any other position. ... if psychoanalysi= s is carried to the logical conclusion that language is neurotic, it can join = hands with the twentieth century school of linguistic analysis -- a depth analy= sis of language -- inspired by that man with a real genius for the psychopath= ology of language, Wittgenstein. He said, "Philosophy is a battle against the bewitchment [Verhexung] of our intelligence by means of language." Some of these linguistic analysts have had the project of getting rid of = the disease in language by reducing language to purely operational terms. Fr= om the psychoanalytic point of view, a purely operational language would be = a language without a libidinal (erotic) component; and psychoanalysis would= suggest that such a project is impossible because language, like man, has= an erotic base, and also useless because man cannot be persuaded to operate (work) for operation's sake. Wittgenstein, if I understand him correctly= , has a position much closer to that of psychoanalysis; he limits the task of philosophy to that of recognizing the inevitable insanity of language. "= My aim is," he says, "to teach you to pass from a piece of disguised nonsens= e to something that is patent nonsense." "He who understands me finally recog= nizes [my propositions] as senseless." Psychoanalysis begins where Wittgenstei= n ends. The problem is not the disease of language, but the disease called= man. -- Norman O. Brown, Life against Death =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org = www.geocities.com/joncpoetics =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ____________________________________________________________________ = ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 14:33:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: The topic in a different light In-Reply-To: <338JBFRXh5200S06.1107710613@cmsweb06.cms.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Psydchoanalysis, like all good science fiction, involves the rigid application of an invented generative hypothesis. "If it aint" would throw the whole thing into a cocked hat. What's needed to render such theoretical games anything more than a rhetorical exercise is an exploration, not an unquestioned, or even a for-the-sake-of-argument, acceptance, of the hypothesis. You haven't done this, nor, for that matter, did Freud, who seemed to think that the metaphors that helped him explain his own emotions to himself were universal. One's self is an excessively small sample. A good methodology would be "if you think you know something throw it out and observe instead." You should know, by the way, that outside of the increasingly small circle of psychoanalysis Freud isn't taken very seriously by students of psychology. Mark At 12:23 PM 2/6/2005, you wrote: >If, in the history of every child, language is first of all a mode of erotic >expression and then later succumbs to the domination of the reality-principle, >it follows, or perhaps we should say mirrors, the path taken by the human >psyche and must share the ultimate fate of the human psyche, namely neurosis >... To regard human speech, the self-evident sign of our superiority over >animals, as a disease, or at least as essentially diseased, is for common >sense ... a monstrous hypothesis. Yet psychoanalysis, which insists on the >necessary connection between cultural achievement and neurosis and between >social organization and neurosis, and which therefore defines man as the >neurotic animal, can hardly take any other position. ... if psychoanalysis is >carried to the logical conclusion that language is neurotic, it can join hands >with the twentieth century school of linguistic analysis -- a depth analysis >of language -- inspired by that man with a real genius for the psychopathology >of language, Wittgenstein. He said, "Philosophy is a battle against the >bewitchment [Verhexung] of our intelligence by means of language." > >Some of these linguistic analysts have had the project of getting rid of the >disease in language by reducing language to purely operational terms. From >the psychoanalytic point of view, a purely operational language would be a >language without a libidinal (erotic) component; and psychoanalysis would >suggest that such a project is impossible because language, like man, has an >erotic base, and also useless because man cannot be persuaded to operate >(work) for operation's sake. Wittgenstein, if I understand him correctly, has >a position much closer to that of psychoanalysis; he limits the task of >philosophy to that of recognizing the inevitable insanity of language. "My >aim is," he says, "to teach you to pass from a piece of disguised nonsense to >something that is patent nonsense." "He who understands me finally recognizes >[my propositions] as senseless." Psychoanalysis begins where Wittgenstein >ends. The problem is not the disease of language, but the disease called >man. > > > -- Norman O. Brown, Life against Death > > >===================================== >Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org > > www.geocities.com/joncpoetics >===================================== > > >____________________________________________________________________ > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 18:32:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: My Wonder Unemployment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed My Wonder Unemployment I hereby declare I am incredibly rich, having saved my unemployment as indicated below to a net worth of $111.00, i.e. the current and last check, still uncashed, a small piece of paper floating like a discharge, of one or another institution or organ, just outside the reach of waning consciousness... Week ending Total Amount Net Amount Effective Days Release Date Type 01/30/2005 $111.00 $111.00 4 01/31/2005 Payment 01/23/2005 $111.00 $111.00 4 01/24/2005 Payment 01/16/2005 $111.00 $111.00 4 01/18/2005 Payment 01/09/2005 $111.00 $111.00 4 01/10/2005 Payment 01/02/2005 $111.00 $111.00 4 01/03/2005 Payment 12/26/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 12/29/2004 Payment 12/19/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 12/21/2004 Payment 12/12/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 12/13/2004 Payment 12/05/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 12/06/2004 Payment 11/28/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 11/29/2004 Payment 11/21/2004 $55.50 $55.50 2 11/22/2004 Payment 11/14/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 11/15/2004 Payment 11/07/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 11/08/2004 Payment 10/31/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 11/01/2004 Payment 10/24/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 10/25/2004 Payment 10/17/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 10/18/2004 Payment 10/10/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 10/12/2004 Payment 10/03/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 10/04/2004 Payment 09/26/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 09/27/2004 Payment 09/19/2004 $83.25 $83.25 3 09/20/2004 Payment 09/12/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 09/17/2004 Payment 09/05/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 09/07/2004 Payment 08/15/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 08/17/2004 Payment 08/08/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 08/09/2004 Payment 08/01/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 08/02/2004 Payment ___ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 18:48:55 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Satirical Poetry? Comments: To: Pierre Joris In-Reply-To: <7849db7205d5ccac87a0f923763e2a70@albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable > On Feb 4, 2005, at 9:57 AM, Shankar, Ravi (English) wrote: > > Can anyone suggest some really deft examples of satirical poetry, > > especially contemporary? I just had my class read a chapter from > > Terry Eagleton's memoir "The Gatekeeper," which is quite wicked in > > parts, and we had the requisite discussion about Ovid, Juvenal, > > Swift, as well as mockumentaries, Strangelove, Al Franken, and the > > Onion, but I was having trouble coming up with good examples from > > poetry. Perhaps your definition of satire would be useful in thinking about whether appropriate examples from poetry exist. I can think of innumerable examples of what I'd call satire, from Dryden, Pope, Byron, Carroll, Calverley, the Carryls, Owen Seaman, FP Adams, Newman Levy, Dorothy Parker, Arthur Guiterman, John Updike, John Betjeman, Frank Jacobs, A D Hope, whose "The Kings" is a brutal indictment of modern society, which I include below, and even Robert Frost -- his "Etherealizing" I also include below because it seems to be so little- known, and other examples of the other writers on request. The Kings A D Hope The lion in deserts royally takes his prey; Gaunt crags cast back the hunting eagle's scream. The King of Parasites, delicate, white, and blind, Ruling his world of fable even as they, Dreams out his greedy and imperious dream Immortal in the bellies of mankind. In a rich bath of pre-digested soup, Warm in the pulsing bowel, safely shut >From the bright ambient horror of sun and air, His slender segments ripening loop by loop, Broods the voluptuous monarch of the gut, The Tapeworm, the prodigious Solitaire. Alone among the royal beasts of prey He takes no partner; no imperial mate Seeks his embrace and bears his clamorous brood. Within himself, in soft and passionate play, Two sexes in their vigour celebrate The raptures of helminthine solitude. >From the barbed crown that hooks him to his host, The limbless ribbon, fecund, flat, and wet, Sways as the stream's delicious juices move; And, as the ripe joints rupture and are lost, Quivers in the prolonged, delirious jet And spasm of unremitting acts of love. And Nature, no less prodigal in birth In savage profusion spreads his royal sway: Herds are his nurseries till the mouths of men, At public feasts, or the domestic hearth, Or by the hands of children at their play, Transmit his line to human flesh again. The former times, as emblems of an age, Graved the gier-eagle's pride, the lion's great heart, Leviathan sporting in the perilous sea; Pictured on History's or the Muse's page, All knew the King, the Hero, set apart To stand up stiff against calamity, Breed courage amid a broken nation's groans, Cherish the will in men about to die, Chasten with just rule a barbarous tribe And guard, at last, the earth that kept his bones. And still the Muse, who does not flatter or lie, Finds for our age a symbol to describe The secret life of Technocratic Man: Abject desire, base fear that shape his law, His idols of the cave, the mart, the stye -- No lion at bay for a beleaguered clan, No eagle with the serpent in his claw, No dragon soter with his searing eye, But the great, greedy, parasitic worm, Sucking the life of nations from within, Blind and degenerate, smug in excrement, "Behold your dream!" she says, "View here the form And mirror of Time, the Shape you trusted in While your world crumbled and my heavens were rent." Etherealizing Robert Frost A theory if you hold it hard enough And long enough gets rated as a creed: Such as that flesh is something we can slough So that the mind can be entirely freed. Then when the arms and legs have atrophied, And brain is all that=92s left of mortal stuff, We can lie on the beach with the seaweed And take our daily tide baths smooth and rough. There once we lay as blobs of jellyfish At evolution=92s opposite extreme. But now as blobs of brain we=92ll lie and dream, With only one vestigial creature wish: Oh, may the tide be soon enough at high To keep our abstract verse from being dry. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 19:56:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Re: The topic in a different light In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.1.20050206142331.04202880@pop.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable "...outside the increasingly small circle of psychoanalysis, etc" This is only because Freud, in psychology, like Newton in physics, Popular interest in Freudian thinking has been coming and going since the publication of *The Interpretation of Dreams* over 100 years ago. Freud brought so many psychological concepts into the popular foreground- (repression,"Freudian slips", projection, the unconscious, the importance of' childhood and sexuality in everyday life, the significance of narcissism, the neurotic foundations of war, etc, etc) that saying he is no= t taken seriously is becoming one of those increasingly "cool", yet tiresomel= y incorrect contemporary clich=E9s. Lots of people question Darwin also right now, even going to the point of forbidding discussion of evolution in the classroom. People have been claiming the death of psychoanalysis since its birth, for many varying reasons. Of course Freud is taken seriously in an historical way as one of the founders of modern psychology. Virtually every supporter of managed care likes to encourage medication over long or even short term therapy. They don't approve of Freud either. They are also frequently mistaken, though, of course, there have also been many abuses of long term psychotherapy as well. Psychoanalysis may not be fashionable righ= t now-neither is liberalism. That doesn't mean it isn't important. It doesn't mean its day is over, either. Google results for "Freud": about 4,830,000=20 Nick P. On 2/6/05 2:33 PM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > Psydchoanalysis, like all good science fiction, involves the rigid > application of an invented generative hypothesis. "If it aint" would thro= w > the whole thing into a cocked hat. What's needed to render such theoretic= al > games anything more than a rhetorical exercise is an exploration, not an > unquestioned, or even a for-the-sake-of-argument, acceptance, of the > hypothesis. You haven't done this, nor, for that matter, did Freud, who > seemed to think that the metaphors that helped him explain his own emotio= ns > to himself were universal. One's self is an excessively small sample. >=20 > A good methodology would be "if you think you know something throw it out > and observe instead." >=20 > You should know, by the way, that outside of the increasingly small circl= e > of psychoanalysis Freud isn't taken very seriously by students of psychol= ogy. >=20 > Mark >=20 >=20 >=20 > At 12:23 PM 2/6/2005, you wrote: >> If, in the history of every child, language is first of all a mode of er= otic >> expression and then later succumbs to the domination of the >> reality-principle, >> it follows, or perhaps we should say mirrors, the path taken by the huma= n >> psyche and must share the ultimate fate of the human psyche, namely neur= osis >> ... To regard human speech, the self-evident sign of our superiority ov= er >> animals, as a disease, or at least as essentially diseased, is for commo= n >> sense ... a monstrous hypothesis. Yet psychoanalysis, which insists on = the >> necessary connection between cultural achievement and neurosis and betwe= en >> social organization and neurosis, and which therefore defines man as the >> neurotic animal, can hardly take any other position. ... if psychoanalys= is is >> carried to the logical conclusion that language is neurotic, it can join >> hands >> with the twentieth century school of linguistic analysis -- a depth anal= ysis >> of language -- inspired by that man with a real genius for the >> psychopathology >> of language, Wittgenstein. He said, "Philosophy is a battle against the >> bewitchment [Verhexung] of our intelligence by means of language." >>=20 >> Some of these linguistic analysts have had the project of getting rid of= the >> disease in language by reducing language to purely operational terms. F= rom >> the psychoanalytic point of view, a purely operational language would be= a >> language without a libidinal (erotic) component; and psychoanalysis woul= d >> suggest that such a project is impossible because language, like man, ha= s an >> erotic base, and also useless because man cannot be persuaded to operate >> (work) for operation's sake. Wittgenstein, if I understand him correctl= y, >> has >> a position much closer to that of psychoanalysis; he limits the task of >> philosophy to that of recognizing the inevitable insanity of language. = "My >> aim is," he says, "to teach you to pass from a piece of disguised nonsen= se to >> something that is patent nonsense." "He who understands me finally >> recognizes >> [my propositions] as senseless." Psychoanalysis begins where Wittgenste= in >> ends. The problem is not the disease of language, but the disease calle= d >> man. >>=20 >>=20 >> -- Norman O. Brown, Life against Death >>=20 >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org >>=20 >> www.geocities.com/joncpoetics >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>=20 >>=20 >> ____________________________________________________________________ >>=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 19:59:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Re: The topic in a different light In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.1.20050206142331.04202880@pop.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable [Sorry- my last post was sent out incorrectly.] "...outside the increasingly small circle of psychoanalysis, etc" Popular interest in Freudian thinking has been coming and going since the publication of *The Interpretation of Dreams* over 100 years ago. Freud brought so many psychological concepts into the popular foreground- (repression,"Freudian slips", projection, the unconscious, the importance of' childhood and sexuality in everyday life, the significance of narcissism, the neurotic foundations of war, etc, etc) that saying he is no= t taken seriously is becoming one of those increasingly "cool", yet tiresomel= y incorrect contemporary clich=E9s. Lots of people question Darwin also right now, even going to the point of forbidding discussion of evolution in the classroom. People have been claiming the death of psychoanalysis since its birth, for many varying reasons. Of course Freud is taken seriously in an historical way as one of the founders of modern psychology. Virtually every supporter of managed care likes to encourage medication over long or even short term therapy. They don't approve of Freud either. They are also frequently mistaken, though, of course, there have also been many abuses of long term psychotherapy as well. Psychoanalysis may not be fashionable righ= t now-neither is liberalism. That doesn't mean it isn't important. It doesn't mean its day is over, either. Google results for "Freud": about 4,830,000=20 Nick P. On 2/6/05 2:33 PM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > Psydchoanalysis, like all good science fiction, involves the rigid > application of an invented generative hypothesis. "If it aint" would thro= w > the whole thing into a cocked hat. What's needed to render such theoretic= al > games anything more than a rhetorical exercise is an exploration, not an > unquestioned, or even a for-the-sake-of-argument, acceptance, of the > hypothesis. You haven't done this, nor, for that matter, did Freud, who > seemed to think that the metaphors that helped him explain his own emotio= ns > to himself were universal. One's self is an excessively small sample. >=20 > A good methodology would be "if you think you know something throw it out > and observe instead." >=20 > You should know, by the way, that outside of the increasingly small circl= e > of psychoanalysis Freud isn't taken very seriously by students of psychol= ogy. >=20 > Mark >=20 >=20 >=20 > At 12:23 PM 2/6/2005, you wrote: >> If, in the history of every child, language is first of all a mode of er= otic >> expression and then later succumbs to the domination of the >> reality-principle, >> it follows, or perhaps we should say mirrors, the path taken by the huma= n >> psyche and must share the ultimate fate of the human psyche, namely neur= osis >> ... To regard human speech, the self-evident sign of our superiority ov= er >> animals, as a disease, or at least as essentially diseased, is for commo= n >> sense ... a monstrous hypothesis. Yet psychoanalysis, which insists on = the >> necessary connection between cultural achievement and neurosis and betwe= en >> social organization and neurosis, and which therefore defines man as the >> neurotic animal, can hardly take any other position. ... if psychoanalys= is is >> carried to the logical conclusion that language is neurotic, it can join >> hands >> with the twentieth century school of linguistic analysis -- a depth anal= ysis >> of language -- inspired by that man with a real genius for the >> psychopathology >> of language, Wittgenstein. He said, "Philosophy is a battle against the >> bewitchment [Verhexung] of our intelligence by means of language." >>=20 >> Some of these linguistic analysts have had the project of getting rid of= the >> disease in language by reducing language to purely operational terms. F= rom >> the psychoanalytic point of view, a purely operational language would be= a >> language without a libidinal (erotic) component; and psychoanalysis woul= d >> suggest that such a project is impossible because language, like man, ha= s an >> erotic base, and also useless because man cannot be persuaded to operate >> (work) for operation's sake. Wittgenstein, if I understand him correctl= y, >> has >> a position much closer to that of psychoanalysis; he limits the task of >> philosophy to that of recognizing the inevitable insanity of language. = "My >> aim is," he says, "to teach you to pass from a piece of disguised nonsen= se to >> something that is patent nonsense." "He who understands me finally >> recognizes >> [my propositions] as senseless." Psychoanalysis begins where Wittgenste= in >> ends. The problem is not the disease of language, but the disease calle= d >> man. >>=20 >>=20 >> -- Norman O. Brown, Life against Death >>=20 >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org >>=20 >> www.geocities.com/joncpoetics >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>=20 >>=20 >> ____________________________________________________________________ >>=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 14:07:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: My Wonder Unemployment - The Life of Bian Riley?! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Alan et al The wonder of my financial satus is that I think I owe about NZ$5000 (two credit cards) (although I amost paid a third one off) and on my cheque account I am at least (minus) NZ$900 (in overdraft) - I also owe another NZ$500 for the balance of a new computer - and i dont know how much I owe my "book buyer" outgoings are endless - rates/water rates/power/telephone and internet/groceries (including the cat !!)/petrol for my old "bomb"/ registration and WOF for said bomb/ postage costs/fees to abebooks about NZ$80 a month at least /fees to eftpos (varies) if there are any book sales/ payments on another loan - balance ~NZ$3000/student loan (owe Govt about NZ$4000) - other - get about NZ$ (all about in NZ$164 a week and some extra from book sales (total of which amounts to just making it to to get some groceries etc or maybe to buy a book ocsasionally - otherwise have to borrow or ("find") a book)) - BUT - nothing has really changed since about 1987 when I left my 'proper' employment - All of which reminds me of the Monty Python skit about how hard things were in :"the good old days" - "I had to get up at 5 am to milk the cows" .. and " I only got $50 a week" ... " Yes, but I had to get up at 3 am" " I only get paid $1 a week".... " Yes but I had to pay my boss to work!..it was hard in them days!!" and so on... Alan - you will never be rich hunkered down there in Boston with your books and computers and and your calculus of cyber thought = the body/text etc etc etc etc etc etc etc and so on and so on and so on and so on - and your great (and small) tomes, your readings of Deridda and film theory and physics and theatre and cybernetics - no money in it my boy!! Dontkick againts the pricks!! its neen tried!! No future - get real job!! At least you write poetry or do something - I dont write unless I think I am going to read to a (present )public or i know someone is interested in publishing and lately feel that everything I have ever written is possibly crap - that said - I feel great!! And always seem to be busy - despite being - officially - on 'welfare'....My project at the moment is to get fit and lose weight!! So as I am more or less healthy and happy i dont have much "drive" to write etc (maybe should try some testosterone -saw a progamme on that - even women are using it to 'get drive'! (to do well in business etc)) although I still read poetry etc...but sometimes wonder why I am on here - i suppose its curiosity ..there is some interesting poetry on here - yours particulary - but others of course... (In Montaigne he quotes how Caesar was asked persmission of an old soldier that he be able to take his own life - Caesar replied - "Why ask? - You are already dead!!"....- sometimes I feel like the old soldier - in a happy kind of way!! You can be sure Alan - lets be serious - that - 100 years after you are dead - there will be a huge industry of Sondheimiania (as there is now one devoted to such as Joyce and Pound) - with Sondehmian poetics in hyperspace/hypertext (something with an abstruse or modish appelation) and there will be thousands - nay billions - of PhDs written scribed or texted on your great project - like James Joyce: with his immense tantalising seemingly endlessly convoluted and labyrinthine and virtually (uninterpretable?..well incomprehensible for most people) Finnegans Wake - you will have defeated death !! Sidestepped the "Great Grim One". And anyone caught being merely happy - or not booked up on his Sondheimanism - will have to watch out for his (and or her) neck!!!! Dont worry about that - you have the authorial power me lad! (your absence shall disturb!) "Look on the bright side of life...dah de da!" (The Life of Brian) Kind regards Richard Taylor richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet / Chess Addict/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: ----------------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."------------------ Aspect Books (N.Z.) on www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 3:32 PM Subject: My Wonder Unemployment > My Wonder Unemployment > > > I hereby declare I am incredibly rich, having saved my unemployment > as indicated below to a net worth of $111.00, i.e. the current and > last check, still uncashed, a small piece of paper floating like a > discharge, of one or another institution or organ, just outside the > reach of waning consciousness... > > Week ending Total Amount Net Amount Effective Days Release Date Type > > 01/30/2005 $111.00 $111.00 4 01/31/2005 Payment > 01/23/2005 $111.00 $111.00 4 01/24/2005 Payment > 01/16/2005 $111.00 $111.00 4 01/18/2005 Payment > 01/09/2005 $111.00 $111.00 4 01/10/2005 Payment > 01/02/2005 $111.00 $111.00 4 01/03/2005 Payment > 12/26/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 12/29/2004 Payment > 12/19/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 12/21/2004 Payment > 12/12/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 12/13/2004 Payment > 12/05/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 12/06/2004 Payment > 11/28/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 11/29/2004 Payment > 11/21/2004 $55.50 $55.50 2 11/22/2004 Payment > 11/14/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 11/15/2004 Payment > 11/07/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 11/08/2004 Payment > 10/31/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 11/01/2004 Payment > 10/24/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 10/25/2004 Payment > 10/17/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 10/18/2004 Payment > 10/10/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 10/12/2004 Payment > 10/03/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 10/04/2004 Payment > 09/26/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 09/27/2004 Payment > 09/19/2004 $83.25 $83.25 3 09/20/2004 Payment > 09/12/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 09/17/2004 Payment > 09/05/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 09/07/2004 Payment > 08/15/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 08/17/2004 Payment > 08/08/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 08/09/2004 Payment > 08/01/2004 $111.00 $111.00 4 08/02/2004 Payment > > > ___ > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 14:10:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: Satirical Poetry? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original A lot of Auden has a satrirical edge Richard Taylor richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet / Chess Addict/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: ----------------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."------------------ Aspect Books (N.Z.) on www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marcus Bales" To: Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 3:48 PM Subject: Re: Satirical Poetry? > On Feb 4, 2005, at 9:57 AM, Shankar, Ravi (English) wrote: > > Can anyone suggest some really deft examples of satirical poetry, > > especially contemporary? I just had my class read a chapter from > > Terry Eagleton's memoir "The Gatekeeper," which is quite wicked in > > parts, and we had the requisite discussion about Ovid, Juvenal, > > Swift, as well as mockumentaries, Strangelove, Al Franken, and the > > Onion, but I was having trouble coming up with good examples from > > poetry. Perhaps your definition of satire would be useful in thinking about whether appropriate examples from poetry exist. I can think of innumerable examples of what I'd call satire, from Dryden, Pope, Byron, Carroll, Calverley, the Carryls, Owen Seaman, FP Adams, Newman Levy, Dorothy Parker, Arthur Guiterman, John Updike, John Betjeman, Frank Jacobs, A D Hope, whose "The Kings" is a brutal indictment of modern society, which I include below, and even Robert Frost -- his "Etherealizing" I also include below because it seems to be so little- known, and other examples of the other writers on request. The Kings A D Hope The lion in deserts royally takes his prey; Gaunt crags cast back the hunting eagle's scream. The King of Parasites, delicate, white, and blind, Ruling his world of fable even as they, Dreams out his greedy and imperious dream Immortal in the bellies of mankind. In a rich bath of pre-digested soup, Warm in the pulsing bowel, safely shut >From the bright ambient horror of sun and air, His slender segments ripening loop by loop, Broods the voluptuous monarch of the gut, The Tapeworm, the prodigious Solitaire. Alone among the royal beasts of prey He takes no partner; no imperial mate Seeks his embrace and bears his clamorous brood. Within himself, in soft and passionate play, Two sexes in their vigour celebrate The raptures of helminthine solitude. >From the barbed crown that hooks him to his host, The limbless ribbon, fecund, flat, and wet, Sways as the stream's delicious juices move; And, as the ripe joints rupture and are lost, Quivers in the prolonged, delirious jet And spasm of unremitting acts of love. And Nature, no less prodigal in birth In savage profusion spreads his royal sway: Herds are his nurseries till the mouths of men, At public feasts, or the domestic hearth, Or by the hands of children at their play, Transmit his line to human flesh again. The former times, as emblems of an age, Graved the gier-eagle's pride, the lion's great heart, Leviathan sporting in the perilous sea; Pictured on History's or the Muse's page, All knew the King, the Hero, set apart To stand up stiff against calamity, Breed courage amid a broken nation's groans, Cherish the will in men about to die, Chasten with just rule a barbarous tribe And guard, at last, the earth that kept his bones. And still the Muse, who does not flatter or lie, Finds for our age a symbol to describe The secret life of Technocratic Man: Abject desire, base fear that shape his law, His idols of the cave, the mart, the stye -- No lion at bay for a beleaguered clan, No eagle with the serpent in his claw, No dragon soter with his searing eye, But the great, greedy, parasitic worm, Sucking the life of nations from within, Blind and degenerate, smug in excrement, "Behold your dream!" she says, "View here the form And mirror of Time, the Shape you trusted in While your world crumbled and my heavens were rent." Etherealizing Robert Frost A theory if you hold it hard enough And long enough gets rated as a creed: Such as that flesh is something we can slough So that the mind can be entirely freed. Then when the arms and legs have atrophied, And brain is all that's left of mortal stuff, We can lie on the beach with the seaweed And take our daily tide baths smooth and rough. There once we lay as blobs of jellyfish At evolution's opposite extreme. But now as blobs of brain we'll lie and dream, With only one vestigial creature wish: Oh, may the tide be soon enough at high To keep our abstract verse from being dry. -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 01:27:36 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: Satirical Poetry? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Philip Levi, _Death is a Platform_ (1971): When traffic died I dreamed the other night about a god with with sheepskin wig and tight violet breeches writing ****, and then satiric verses with a golden pen ... Pope for our time ... R. Also Robert Greacen's "Captain Fox" poems, and Christopher Logue. The problem with finding 20thC Satirical pomes isn't finding them,. it's avoiding them. :-( C3P0 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 20:30:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Irving Weiss Subject: Catalan words MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thank you both, Felix and David Larsen. I found barreja by matching a monolingual Catalan dictionary search with an English-Catalan one. Irving ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 01:38:38 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: Satirical Poetry? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > A lot of Auden has a satrirical edge > > Richard Taylor Richard, that's *fatuous* ... (name a pome.) Leave aside "The Shield of Achilles", there's _The Sea and the Mirror_. ... duck soup. R. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 22:47:58 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Re: Satirical Poetry? In-Reply-To: <00b801c50cb5$bfab36d0$ca309b51@Robin> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII another type of satire is Menippean satire. I believe that the etymology of the word, satire, leads to medley. So a satire is a medley of styles. I've always thought that The Marriage of Heaven and Hell is great example. Verse, biblical inversions, prose, collapse of ancient and contemporaneous personages, open parody, the list goes on. Hetrogeneous polyvocal . Bakhtin writes on satire. sounds interesting, kvin ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 21:22:14 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: thy thing is on my thigh MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've rarely wished for death because=20 the ocean on the earth under the sun the commotion of our bodies =20 I can see the world without me some fond kind of memories but I won=E2=80=99t give it the satisfaction ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 21:16:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Halliburton Forces Generals To Waive Rules, Scrap Audit Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit theassassinatedpress.com Halliburton Payments For Work Not Done Won't Be Withheld: Cheney/Halliburton Threaten To Abandon Troops In The Field If Company Doesn't Get Its Cash On Time: Halliburton Forces Generals To Waive Rules, Scrap Audit Reports, Threatens Not To Hire Them As CEOs After Military Retirement: New Charges From Halliburton For Shipping 'Sailing Fuel' Top $10 Billion By ROB M. BLIND JR. Power Corrupted: "While Kenny Boy Fucks Bush, We Fuck California." Enron Traders Caught On Tape: Schwarzenegger "Will Do Like He's Told" And Block Refund To Consumers: Cheney Energy Group Tapes To Be Made Public: Dick "Go Fuck Yourself"--- Cheney Goes On the Offensive; Threatens Judge: Tapes Show Looting of Social Security Many Years In The Planning: Assassinated Press To Be Broadcast Over Voice Of America DARN BLITHER ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 21:37:47 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: thy thing on my thigh MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've rarely wished for death because the ocean on the earth under the sun the commotion of our bodies I can see the world without me some fond kind of memories but I won't give it the satisfaction Cognition and language are the crown of human evolution. How we use them will determine our progress or decline as a species. Poetry is as adequate a form of communication as any other. Sometimes oblique or obscure poetry is fun, intriguing, because we must pay attention to the poet and not just his text or art. Poems need the context of the poet. T.S. Eliot disagreed, but that's okay. Sometimes isn't always, and all ways are toward. If they're not forward in the least, they're no thing. Even fun can be progress. mj ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 18:40:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: thy thing is on my thigh MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mary Jo, Sorry, couldn't resist the impulse to play on your subject line. Alex=20 My nipple's in you eye... your thing is on my thigh damn it's flaccid when you're high. =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mary Jo Malo=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 6:22 PM Subject: thy thing is on my thigh I've rarely wished for death because=20 the ocean on the earth under the sun the commotion of our bodies =20 I can see the world without me some fond kind of memories but I won=E2=80=99t give it the satisfaction ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 22:30:27 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Satirical Poetry? Comments: To: Robin Hamilton In-Reply-To: <00b801c50cb5$bfab36d0$ca309b51@Robin> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable On 7 Feb 2005 at 1:38, Robin Hamilton wrote: > > A lot of Auden has a satrirical edge > > Richard Taylor > > Richard, that's *fatuous* ... > (name a pome.) > Leave aside "The Shield of Achilles", there's _The Sea and the > Mirror_. Under Which Lyre WH Auden Ares at last has quit the field, The bloodstains on the bushes yield To seeping showers, And in their convalescent state The fractured towns associate With summer flowers Encamped upon the college plain Raw veterans already train As freshman forces; Instructors with sarcastic tongue Shepherd the battle-weary young Through basic courses. Among bewildering appliances For mastering the arts and sciences They stroll or run, And nerves that steeled themselves to slaughter Are shot to pieces by the shorter Poems of Donne. Professors back from secret missions Resume their proper eruditions, Though some regret it; They liked their dictaphones a lot, They met some big wheels, and do not Let you forget it. But Zeus=92 inscrutable decree Permits the will-to-disagree To be pandemic, Ordains that vaudeville shall preach And every commencement speech Be a polemic. Let Ares doze, that other war Is instantly declared once more =91Twixt those who follow Precocious Hermes all the way And those who without qualms obey Pompous Apollo. Brutal like all Olympic games, Though fought with smiles and Christian names And less dramatic, This dialectic strife between The civil gods is just as mean, And more fanatic. What high immortals do in mirth Is life and death on Middle Earth; Their a-historic Antipathy forever gripes All ages and somatic types, The sophomoric Who face the future=92s darkest hints With giggles or with prairie squints As stout as Cortez, And those who like myself turn pale As we approach with ragged sail The fattening forties. The sons of Hermes love to play, And only do their best when they Are told they oughtn=92t; Apollo=92s children never shrink >From boring jobs but have to think Their work important. Related by antithesis A compromise between us is Impossible; Respect perhaps but friendship never: Falstaff the fool confronts forever The prig Prince Hal. If he would leave the self alone, Apollo=92s welcome to the throne, Fasces and falcons; He loves to rule, has always done it; The earth would soon, did Hermes run it, Be like the Balkans. But jealous of our god of dreams, His common-sense in secret schemes To rule the heart; Unable to invent the lyre, Creates with simulated fire Official art. And when he occupies a college, Truth is replaced by Useful Knowledge; He pays particular Attention to Commercial Thought, Public Relations, Hygiene, Sport, In his curricula. Athletic, extrovert, and crude, For him, to work in solitude Is the offense, The goal a populous Nirvana: His shield bears this device: mens sana Qui mal y pense. Today his arms, we must confess, >From Right to Left have met success, His banners wave >From Yale to Princeton, and the news >From Broadway to the Book Reviews Is very grave. His radio Homers all day long In over-Whitmanated song That does not scan, With adjectives laid end to end, Extol the doughnut and commend The Common Man. His, too, each homely lyric thing On sport or spousal love or spring Or dogs or dusters, Invented by some court-house bard For recitation by the yard In filibusters. To him ascend the prize orations And sets of fugal variations On some folk-ballad, While dietitians sacrifice A glass of prune-juice or a nice Marsh-mallow salad. Charged with his command of sensational Sex plus some undenominational Religious matter Enormous novels by co-eds Rain down on our defenceless heads Till our teeth chatter. In fake Hermetic uniforms Behind our battle-line, in swarms That keep alighting, His existentialists declare That they are in complete despair, Yet go on writing. No matter; He shall be defied; White Aphrodite=92s on our side: What though his threat To organize us grow more critical? Zeus willing, we, the unpolitical, Shall beat him yet. Lone scholars, sniping from the walls Of learned periodicals, Our facts defend, Our intellectual marines, Landing in little magazines Capture a trend, By night or student Underground At cocktail parties whisper round From ear to ear: Fat figures in the public eye Collapse next morning, ambushed by Some witty sneer. In our morale must lie our strength: So that we may behold at length Routed Apollo=92s Battalions melt away like fog, Keep well the Hermetic Decalogue, Which runs as follows: Thou shalt not do as the dean pleases, Thou shalt not write thy doctor=92s thesis On education, Thou shalt not worship projects nor Shalt thou or thine bow down before Administration. Thou shalt not answer questionnaires Or quizzes upon World-Affairs, Nor with compliance Take any test. Thou shalt not sit With statisticians nor commit A social science. Thou shalt not be on friendly terms With guys in advertising firms Nor speak with such As read the Bible for its prose, Nor, above all, make love to those Who wash too much. Thou shalt not live within thy means Nor on plain water and raw greens. If thou must choose Between the chances, take the odd: Read The New Yorker, trust in God; And take short views. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 20:04:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Fw: Hi - could you send this to Poetics? I'm over quota. Thanks - Alan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: "weishaus, joel -- joel weishaus" ; "Joel Weishaus" Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 5:35 PM Subject: Hi - could you send this to Poetics? I'm over quota. Thanks - Alan Obituaries February 07, 2005 Ernst Mayr Veteran biologist who synthesised Darwin's theory of evolution and Mendel's theory of heredity ERNST MAYR devoted eight decades to the systematic study of the natural world that he learnt to love as a boy growing up in Bavaria before the First World War. He began as an ornithologist, became an evolutionist, and in later life developed his interests in the philosophy of biology. His longevity and his appetite for work enabled him both to establish a prominent place in the history of 20th-century evolutionary biology, and to write that history himself. In an essay marking his 100th birthday, which fell last July, Mayr described himself as "the last survivor of the golden age of the evolutionary synthesis". That process, which occupied the middle decades of the past century, integrated two theories which had originated in the middle of the century before: Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection, and Mendel's theory of heredity. Much of the credit for it has conventionally been awarded to geneticists, whose methods were mathematical, but Mayr challenged their significance. A naturalist and a confirmed non-mathematician, he insisted that the geneticists had only addressed the question of how organisms become adapted to their conditions of life. For the synthesis to be complete, it needed to incorporate the question of how new species are formed. It was this dimension of the synthesis which Mayr helped to clarify, most notably in his landmark book Systematics and the Origin of Species (1942). In particular, Mayr explained the "biological species concept", a view of species not as forms defined by a collection of attributes but as populations of interbreeding organisms. He emphasised the role of geographical isolation in the formation of new species: when parts of a population became physically separated, they would take different evolutionary paths, and would eventually become incapable of interbreeding. In this he followed his mentor, Erwin Stresemann; both in the concept itself, which he considered to have been held by Stresemann and other German ornithologists, and in his conviction - not typical of the age in which he was formed - that biology should be a theoretical discipline as well as a project to accumulate facts. Ernst Walter Mayr was born in Kempten, Bavaria, in 1904. His love of nature was inculcated by his father Otto, a judge, on Sunday natural history excursions, and later his family's tradition of medical practice guided him to medical studies - though his choice of university, Greifswald, was influenced by the likelihood that the local bird life would be interesting. He made contact with Erwin Stresemann, who was curator of birds at the University of Berlin Museum of Natural History, to report a sighting of rare ducks, and in 1925 moved to Berlin, where Stresemann supervised his PhD. Mayr completed his doctoral thesis the following summer, at the age of 21, and became an assistant at the museum. He followed the tradition of the great Victorian naturalists by going on formative expeditions in his youth, followed by long years studying specimens. In 1928 he went to New Guinea to collect for Lord Walter Rothschild's museum at Tring, Hertfordshire, and the American Museum of Natural History, then joined the museum's Whitney expedition further east in the Solomon Islands. Surviving tropical diseases and other hazards - a highly premature report of his death claimed that he had met his end at native hands - he returned to Berlin in 1930. In 1931 he sailed to the US, to take up a post at the museum in New York. Rothschild's collection of 280,000 bird specimens followed him not long after - Rothschild sold it to the museum in the face of blackmail demands arising from an affair. Curating this collection was Mayr's main responsibility for the next 20 years. In 1935, Mayr married Margarete (Gretel) Simon. Their marriage lasted 55 years, until her death in 1990. Mayr left the natural history museum in 1953 to become Alexander Agassiz Professor of Zoology at the Harvard University Museum of Comparative Zoology. He stayed at Harvard for the rest of his life, serving as the director of the MCZ from 1961 to 1970, and becoming Professor Emeritus in 1975. He projected his vision of biology and his role in its development in the historical and philosophical ventures he undertook from the 1970s onwards, from the historical and biographical essays in The Evolutionary Synthesis, which he co-edited with the historian of science Will Provine, through the 900 pages of his 1982 book The Growth of Biological Thought, to the articles and books he wrote in his nineties. These later works summarise the persistent themes in his thought, expressed with characteristic directness and conviction. He asserted the importance of naturalists such as himself in the development of evolutionary theory. Naturalists, he considered, were disposed to recognise that natural selection acts on individual organisms rather than individual genes. Mayr's view of the evolutionary geneticists' project, in which they used mathematics to treat individual genes in isolation, was expressed in the phrase "beanbag genetics". Swimming against one of the most powerful currents in modern biology, much of which now deals with molecules rather than organisms, he rejected reductionism wholesale. In this, as in his vision of biology overall, he was a self-consciously continental thinker, holistic in inclination and schooled in the importance of systematic classification. His historical commentaries asserted the significance of scientists from a continental European background, most of all the Russian-born Theodosius Dobzhansky, whose 1933 paper on variation in beetles provoked Mayr to exclaim: "Here is finally a geneticist who understands us taxonomists!" In relocating across the Atlantic, however, Mayr left behind the Central European philosophical tradition of idealism, whose notion of ideal types he saw as an obstacle to the concept of species as populations of varying individuals. He maintained a commitment to German natural history, and acquired a following in the country of his birth. After the war, he and his wife Gretel supported his colleagues in Germany by sending them journals as well as food parcels. Meanwhile, in his adopted country (he and Gretel became US citizens in 1950) he founded the journal Evolution in 1947. As a professor he was American in his informality, in striking contrast to the strict hierarchies that still endured back in Europe. One of his former students recalls how, on a visit to France, Mayr deliberately contrived to shock his hosts by engaging in debate with his junior colleague on first-name terms. Over the course of his career Mayr supported and guided many younger colleagues - most dramatically to New Guinea, in the case of Jared Diamond, whom he met when Diamond was a teenager, and Mayr worked with his father on the role of natural selection in the evolution of blood groups. In 1971, they began a project which eventually resulted in their book The Birds of Northern Melanesia (2001). Ernst Mayr remained an ornithologist and a systematist even after he had turned to history and philosophy. All these fields were unified by his understanding of evolution. Mayr's many honours include the Japan Prize, the Balzan Prize and the Crafoord Prize, one of the most prestigious international awards open to biologists. His tally of productivity includes the description of 26 species and 473 subspecies of birds previously unknown to science, and 25 books, the last of which (What Makes Biology Unique) he completed in time for his centenary, 81 years after his first publication. He is survived by his two daughters. Ernst Mayr, biologist, was born on July 5, 1904. He died on January 3, 2005, aged 100. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 20:29:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: [razapress] Raza Studies MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Educate and Liberate! Raza Studies Program Spring Semester 2005 The Raza Studies Program/Somos Raza (youth organization) was founded in 1987 by Union del Barrio. The objectives of the program are: 1. Educate/Inform young people about Raza History, Politics, and Culture. 2. Through Raza Studies create/instill pride and positive self-esteem among Raza youth. 3. Create unity among Raza youth and end the mindless violence that takes place daily throughout the Barrios of Aztlan. 4. Assist/Motivate young Raza to continue their education (high school, college, etc.). 5. Raise the social consciousness of youth and get them involved in the struggle for Raza self-determination (create progressive social activists). 6. Prepare other to become Raza Studies instructors and teachers. For almost two decades, the Raza Studies Programs have been held in various barrios of San Diego: in schools, community youth centers, and at Union del Barrio headquarters. This Spring’s Raza Studies Program is being organized in a “round table discussion” (circulo de discusion) format/structure; an a guest presenter is asked to give comments on a particular issue and everyone is encouraged to asked questions or give comments (feed back). We are currently on our third session of the Raza Studies Program Spring Semester 2005. The first session was an introduction to the program and our last session was titled “ISSUES FACING YOUTH” (which took place on Feb. 2). The third session of the spring semester will take place at 5 PM, Wednesday 9 , at the Yo Spot Youth Center, located on the corner of 41 and Market St, San Diego. The session is titled “Why Some Raza Youth End Up In Prison and The Reality of Prison Life". Franciso Soto, who has done time in youth detention facilities, as well as State and Federal Prisons, and is currently a member of the Chicano Mexicano Prison Project (CMPP), will be the guest presenter for this session. Francisco will speak from a Chicano Mexicano self-determination perspective. Learn. Become an activists. Support the Struggle. Participate in the Raza Studies Program. Venceremos! for more information, reply to this e-mail or call Ernesto at (619) 266-5731 ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 00:00:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: The topic in a different light In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We apparently differ on this, which doesn't make my statement dismissably=20 cool yet tiresomely incorrect. I speak, by the way, from having been inside= =20 the profession for many years and seen more than my share of diagnostic=20 disasters by psychoanalysts. I in fact began as a Freudian. After a couple= =20 of years in the field I decided against analytic training--I attended the=20 Ackerman Institute for Family Therapy instead, though I continued to treat= =20 individuals as well, in both long and short-term treatment. I mention this= =20 not to boast but to disabuse you of any assumption that I speak from=20 ignorance. Note that the significance of Freudian slips, the very existence= =20 of the unconscious, and the neurotic foundation of war are hardly=20 uncontested. And comparing questioning of Darwin, who is endlessly=20 replicable by disinterested observers (there has even been observed=20 speciation by means of natural selection) with questioning of Freud seems=20 to me way off. I stand by my last sentence. Even in analytic training institutes it's=20 becoming increasingly difficult to get analytic patients. None of which means that people who believe Freud's theories can't be good= =20 therapists. Experienced therapists tend to do similar things in the office,= =20 regardless of how they explain to themselves why they're doing them. Nor=20 does it mean that Freud's work has no historical significance, and for some= =20 it remains a useful set of metaphors. Regardless, Norman O. Brown's application of psychoanalytic theory, which=20 is where we started, is absurdly reductive. Mark At 07:59 PM 2/6/2005, you wrote: >[Sorry- my last post was sent out incorrectly.] > >"...outside the increasingly small circle of psychoanalysis, etc" > > >Popular interest in Freudian thinking has been coming and going since >the publication of *The Interpretation of Dreams* over 100 years ago. Freud >brought so many psychological concepts into the popular foreground- >(repression,"Freudian slips", projection, the unconscious, the importance >of' childhood and sexuality in everyday life, the significance of >narcissism, the neurotic foundations of war, etc, etc) that saying he is= not >taken seriously is becoming one of those increasingly "cool", yet= tiresomely >incorrect contemporary clich=E9s. Lots of people question Darwin also right >now, even going to the point of forbidding discussion of evolution in the >classroom. People have been claiming the death of psychoanalysis since its >birth, for many varying reasons. Of course Freud is taken seriously in an >historical way as one of the founders of modern psychology. Virtually every >supporter of managed care likes to encourage medication over long or even >short term therapy. They don't approve of Freud either. They are also >frequently mistaken, though, of course, there have also been many abuses of >long term psychotherapy as well. Psychoanalysis may not be fashionable= right >now-neither is liberalism. That doesn't mean it isn't important. It >doesn't mean its day is over, either. > >Google results for "Freud": > about 4,830,000 > > >Nick P. > > >On 2/6/05 2:33 PM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > > > Psydchoanalysis, like all good science fiction, involves the rigid > > application of an invented generative hypothesis. "If it aint" would= throw > > the whole thing into a cocked hat. What's needed to render such= theoretical > > games anything more than a rhetorical exercise is an exploration, not an > > unquestioned, or even a for-the-sake-of-argument, acceptance, of the > > hypothesis. You haven't done this, nor, for that matter, did Freud, who > > seemed to think that the metaphors that helped him explain his own= emotions > > to himself were universal. One's self is an excessively small sample. > > > > A good methodology would be "if you think you know something throw it= out > > and observe instead." > > > > You should know, by the way, that outside of the increasingly small= circle > > of psychoanalysis Freud isn't taken very seriously by students of=20 > psychology. > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > At 12:23 PM 2/6/2005, you wrote: > >> If, in the history of every child, language is first of all a mode of= =20 > erotic > >> expression and then later succumbs to the domination of the > >> reality-principle, > >> it follows, or perhaps we should say mirrors, the path taken by the= human > >> psyche and must share the ultimate fate of the human psyche, namely=20 > neurosis > >> ... To regard human speech, the self-evident sign of our superiority= over > >> animals, as a disease, or at least as essentially diseased, is for= common > >> sense ... a monstrous hypothesis. Yet psychoanalysis, which insists=20 > on the > >> necessary connection between cultural achievement and neurosis and= between > >> social organization and neurosis, and which therefore defines man as= the > >> neurotic animal, can hardly take any other position. ... if=20 > psychoanalysis is > >> carried to the logical conclusion that language is neurotic, it can= join > >> hands > >> with the twentieth century school of linguistic analysis -- a depth=20 > analysis > >> of language -- inspired by that man with a real genius for the > >> psychopathology > >> of language, Wittgenstein. He said, "Philosophy is a battle against= the > >> bewitchment [Verhexung] of our intelligence by means of language." > >> > >> Some of these linguistic analysts have had the project of getting rid= =20 > of the > >> disease in language by reducing language to purely operational=20 > terms. From > >> the psychoanalytic point of view, a purely operational language would= be a > >> language without a libidinal (erotic) component; and psychoanalysis= would > >> suggest that such a project is impossible because language, like man,= =20 > has an > >> erotic base, and also useless because man cannot be persuaded to= operate > >> (work) for operation's sake. Wittgenstein, if I understand him= correctly, > >> has > >> a position much closer to that of psychoanalysis; he limits the task of > >> philosophy to that of recognizing the inevitable insanity of=20 > language. "My > >> aim is," he says, "to teach you to pass from a piece of disguised=20 > nonsense to > >> something that is patent nonsense." "He who understands me finally > >> recognizes > >> [my propositions] as senseless." Psychoanalysis begins where= Wittgenstein > >> ends. The problem is not the disease of language, but the disease= called > >> man. > >> > >> > >> -- Norman O. Brown, Life against Death > >> > >> > >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >> Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org > >> > >> www.geocities.com/joncpoetics > >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >> > >> > >> ____________________________________________________________________ > >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 01:01:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: wild honey drank MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed wild honey drank assist injure soon omit fate extol object stay intend approach mail basis iniquitous slash palace fled exclusion notwithstanding substitute it amend manifold bestow information sign perpetual fortune esteem no tarry justice ahmad 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sport beverage harmony messenger attack race wool envy conflict two sorcery beside home marks awe remission woman eighty cover various sleep beneficent improve lying barbarous roof with duty deceive warm silver belong interpretation like bed saw wild drank __ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 02:18:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: konrad Subject: Re: Thy hinge oh my high MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Lots of satyrical subject line poetry here cropping up. Alan wrote: >> Even vision starts with retinal learning; All i can say is: learning WHAT? I realize that the piece you posted that started this had partly to do with the assertion of power through definitive against interpreted readings of religious texts (among other things). And, sorry, i didn't mean to put words in your mouth like 'there is no ecstatic experience' or 'the essence of writing.' But then i didn't commit to saying there was a 'native syntax' for film, but rather that that was someone's project. The point about bringing up Joseph Smith (or Moses, or any of the discoverers of Terma, buried Tibetan religious texts -- sometimes they're said to be 'buried' in peoples' minds!!!) is that there is The Book of Mormon and there are the Golden Plates that got reburied. The reason i say 'it doesn't matter' what's on the plates is that they are not a reference, they are a cypher, a placeholder for something beyond the grasp of the Book, which is a translation (only non-believers believe he wrote it from scratch). The book de-marks the interface between his visionary experience and the exfoliation of that into a text. But that's still a DNA metaphor -- i need something else to get at what i mean, but it's not possible: i need a metaphor with only one term! One thing that interests me about, uh ... "experimental" cinema (music, dance): it's a laboratory for inter-media translation, that ekphrastic transition to language in trying to talk about it. Of course this makes everything into a text :( so it's apropos of what you're saying with "it's also important to recognize the syntactics and semantics of those experiences," except that you said that with respect to mystical or ecstatic experiences rather than aesthetic ones. But the reason i find it a lab, is that it's a sheltered environment to examine how really incommensurate realms interact. My sense is there is a gap between experience and language, that even writing is a kind of reading, so talking/writing about non-verbal work is like practice in dealing with life. (This view brings the critic down a notch.) I understand that you're saying that experience IS structure (syntax), i.e. that that is the equivalent of 'everything is reading.' Perhaps i misunderstand. My sense is that 'experience without structure' is the experience of being a 'conduit' or what many poets and seers have described as being a vehicle for some kind of transmission, though you don't have to be one to experience it. Hell, even George W Bush thinks he talks to God. But that's the issue you're getting at, isn't it? I'm way with you regarding the 'death of the author' as an echo of the Death of God. But i'm way against you regarding cinema. Every unreeling is a performance. I experience every re-screening as irreducibly different, even though some may fall into families of similar events. On top of that the film 'exists' in the memories of spectators more unavoidably than a poem 'exists' in the memory of readers, since a poem's text is much more available to look up. To me the priority (authority, power) you suggest writing has, using the metaphor of voltage required to inscribe a magnetic trace, could also be inverted to show that the Achilles Heel is having no eraser. Is the rubber heel a solution? konrad ^Z ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 07:15:57 -0500 Reply-To: Ron Silliman Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Silliman's Blog Comments: To: WOM-PO@listserv.muohio.edu, BRITISH-POETS@jiscmail.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT TOPICS: Writing Creeley when you're not Robert Creeley A note on email A dream of Robert Creeley Eli Drabman's impossible poetry -- mad gyroscope spinning How do you begin a poem? A test case: Zyxt Plotting plotless prose vs. the prose poem (Venn diagram included) The Peril of the Poetry Reading: Dan Groff's comments at the Academy of American Poets The 250,000th visitor is . . . Truong Tran's Within the Margin Jess' retrospective at SF's Paule Anglim Gallery From Helen Adam to Eileen Tabios: Poetry & its arts: Bay Area Interactions A note on manners http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 08:24:58 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Camille Martin Subject: camille martin's poems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII for anyone interested, my most recent work can be found in the following online magazines: http://www.moriapoetry.com/martin900.html http://www.wordforword.info/vol6/Martin.htm http://www.shampoopoetry.com/ShampooTwentyone/martin.html http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com/poeticlanguagefive.html#5 http://www.blazevox.org/c_martin.pdf http://www.poeticinhalation.com/tlm_v4i8.html#camille%20martin http://xstream.xpressed.org/ http://www.spidertangle.net/the_book/martin.html http://www.spidertangle.net/the_book/martin2.html http://www.spidertangle.net/the_book/martin3.html http://www.spidertangle.net/the_book/martin4.html http://www.spidertangle.net/the_book/martin5.html and the following print magazines: 88: A Journal of Contemporary American Poetry 4 (2004): 112-14. Fell Swoop 70 (2004). Camille Martin 7712 Cohn St., Apt. A New Orleans, LA 70118 (504) 865-7821 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 09:51:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "St. Thomasino" Subject: eratio postmodern poetry issue five, spring 2005 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable 9 eratio postmodern poetry issue five, spring 2005 http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com * poetic language * Rosanna Licari Cyril Wong Jake Berry Joseph Armstead=20 Camille Martin=20 Diana Magallon=20 Roy Frisvold=20 Joel Chace=20 Peter Jay Shippy=20 Brad Flis=20 Thomas Lowe Taylor=20 Amos Tang=20 Dorothee Lang=20 Rizwan Saeed Ahmed=20 Andrew Nightingale=20 Aryan Kaganof =20 * eidetics * =20 David Chikhladze * bookshelf * =20 Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino reads Amy King, Joel Chace, M=E1rton Kopp=E1ny, and Alan Halsey, John Byrum and Geraldine Monk in The Ahadada Reader * the eratio gallery * Geof Huth=20 August Highland=20 Nancy Burr & Nico Vassilakis =20 edited by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino eratio appears for spring and fall and is always reading read the guidelines before sending: http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com/contact.html eratio postmodern poetry issue five, spring 2005 http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com 9 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 10:09:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Applegate Subject: Ten Sentences on Robert Creeley Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Ten Sentences on Robert Creeley "What is poetry which does not save / Nations or people?" -Czeslaw Milosz Let's read "I Keep to Myself Such Measures" as a description of Creeley's writing process or poetic practice. In the lines 'The mind... puts in place of it... simple markers' Creeley represents the possibility of returning to and revising the past through writing, but since ultimately 'All forgets,' this action remains futile. A world in which 'all forgets' refuses a firm ground for knowledge, making decisive action difficult. 'My mind sinks,' Creeley writes, descending into a half-lit realm where both transcendence and revelation become impossible. Weighted down by a consciousness whose thinking can only lead in the direction of the 'less tangible,' the less substantive, Creeley's verse continually circulates through an omnipresent forgetfulness; he uses it to drive his poems forward. Since 'form is never more than an extension of content' as we learned via Olson in his "Projective Verse," what we find in the figure of Creeley is a man mired in an inability to overcome himself, to make a statement, to make poetry. "I was always leery of claiming to be a 'poet...'" Creeley admits in a recent interview. As Bataille writes in the essay "The Notion of Expenditure:" 'The term poetry... can be considered synonymous with expenditure; it in fact signifies, in the most precise way, creation by means of loss. Its meaning is therefore close to that of sacrifice.' Since Creeley sacrifices nothing, gives nothing away, and in fact insists he has nothing to give, can his work truly be considered poetry? Despite the fact that Creeley's formal innovations have changed the face of American poetic practice, we must yet determine what value this work might hold for us today. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 10:43:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Re: The topic in a different light In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.1.20050206234010.044bb300@pop.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I sincerely appreciate Mark Weiss' patient and considered responses to my huffy statements. His original point, that I was responding to here, implie= d that Freud's contributions are now considered insignificant, historically, in psychology. This is incorrect. Also, the main reason that analytic institutes and analysts in private practice don't get as many referrals at they used to is managed care, not the ups and downs, in academia, and among critics of the field, as to the significance of psychoanalysis. Managed car= e proponents are well aware of the convictions of psychoanalysts about the necessity, in some cases, of long term psychotherapy; they don't like it because they want to save money for insurance companies. This is an understandable conflict. I have also been inside the profession for a long time, in fact, over 20 years. I, as well as others, have noted countless successes, along with numerous failures, of all kinds of psychotherapy treatment. By the way, this is true of any kind of treatment, from cardiology to dermatology, so it's no reflection on Freud at all. He himsel= f was cautious, and says so in his published writings, as to the probable successes of psychoanalytic treatment (see, "Psychoanalysis Terminable and Interminable.") The significance of the unconscious, of the ego defenses, and so many other contributions of psychoanalysis are very well recognized, and were and are debated, as well. My point about Darwin was to illustrate the fact that because something is contested, it doesn't mean it isn't valid. Everyone now recognizes that psychoanalysis cannot be considered "hard science." But it is, frankly, short sighted to attempt to obviate the psychological and cultural contributions of Freud's ideas. The fact that they are contested, that the debates remain alive, within and without the profession, is a sign of life, not death. Like many types of poetry, Freudian ideas continue to engender fierce and interesting debates, loyalties and disavowals. What else is new? Nick P. On 2/7/05 12:00 AM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > We apparently differ on this, which doesn't make my statement dismissably > cool yet tiresomely incorrect. I speak, by the way, from having been insi= de > the profession for many years and seen more than my share of diagnostic > disasters by psychoanalysts. I in fact began as a Freudian. After a coupl= e > of years in the field I decided against analytic training--I attended the > Ackerman Institute for Family Therapy instead, though I continued to trea= t > individuals as well, in both long and short-term treatment. I mention thi= s > not to boast but to disabuse you of any assumption that I speak from > ignorance. Note that the significance of Freudian slips, the very existen= ce > of the unconscious, and the neurotic foundation of war are hardly > uncontested. And comparing questioning of Darwin, who is endlessly > replicable by disinterested observers (there has even been observed > speciation by means of natural selection) with questioning of Freud seems > to me way off. >=20 > I stand by my last sentence. Even in analytic training institutes it's > becoming increasingly difficult to get analytic patients. >=20 > None of which means that people who believe Freud's theories can't be goo= d > therapists. Experienced therapists tend to do similar things in the offic= e, > regardless of how they explain to themselves why they're doing them. Nor > does it mean that Freud's work has no historical significance, and for so= me > it remains a useful set of metaphors. >=20 > Regardless, Norman O. Brown's application of psychoanalytic theory, which > is where we started, is absurdly reductive. >=20 > Mark >=20 > At 07:59 PM 2/6/2005, you wrote: >> [Sorry- my last post was sent out incorrectly.] >>=20 >> "...outside the increasingly small circle of psychoanalysis, etc" >>=20 >>=20 >> Popular interest in Freudian thinking has been coming and going since >> the publication of *The Interpretation of Dreams* over 100 years ago. Fr= eud >> brought so many psychological concepts into the popular foreground- >> (repression,"Freudian slips", projection, the unconscious, the importan= ce >> of' childhood and sexuality in everyday life, the significance of >> narcissism, the neurotic foundations of war, etc, etc) that saying he is= not >> taken seriously is becoming one of those increasingly "cool", yet tireso= mely >> incorrect contemporary clich=E9s. Lots of people question Darwin also righ= t >> now, even going to the point of forbidding discussion of evolution in th= e >> classroom. People have been claiming the death of psychoanalysis since i= ts >> birth, for many varying reasons. Of course Freud is taken seriously in a= n >> historical way as one of the founders of modern psychology. Virtually ev= ery >> supporter of managed care likes to encourage medication over long or eve= n >> short term therapy. They don't approve of Freud either. They are also >> frequently mistaken, though, of course, there have also been many abuses= of >> long term psychotherapy as well. Psychoanalysis may not be fashionable r= ight >> now-neither is liberalism. That doesn't mean it isn't important. It >> doesn't mean its day is over, either. >>=20 >> Google results for "Freud": >> about 4,830,000 >>=20 >>=20 >> Nick P. >>=20 >>=20 >> On 2/6/05 2:33 PM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: >>=20 >>> Psydchoanalysis, like all good science fiction, involves the rigid >>> application of an invented generative hypothesis. "If it aint" would th= row >>> the whole thing into a cocked hat. What's needed to render such theoret= ical >>> games anything more than a rhetorical exercise is an exploration, not a= n >>> unquestioned, or even a for-the-sake-of-argument, acceptance, of the >>> hypothesis. You haven't done this, nor, for that matter, did Freud, who >>> seemed to think that the metaphors that helped him explain his own emot= ions >>> to himself were universal. One's self is an excessively small sample. >>>=20 >>> A good methodology would be "if you think you know something throw it o= ut >>> and observe instead." >>>=20 >>> You should know, by the way, that outside of the increasingly small cir= cle >>> of psychoanalysis Freud isn't taken very seriously by students of >> psychology. >>>=20 >>> Mark >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> At 12:23 PM 2/6/2005, you wrote: >>>> If, in the history of every child, language is first of all a mode of >> erotic >>>> expression and then later succumbs to the domination of the >>>> reality-principle, >>>> it follows, or perhaps we should say mirrors, the path taken by the hu= man >>>> psyche and must share the ultimate fate of the human psyche, namely >> neurosis >>>> ... To regard human speech, the self-evident sign of our superiority = over >>>> animals, as a disease, or at least as essentially diseased, is for com= mon >>>> sense ... a monstrous hypothesis. Yet psychoanalysis, which insists >> on the >>>> necessary connection between cultural achievement and neurosis and bet= ween >>>> social organization and neurosis, and which therefore defines man as t= he >>>> neurotic animal, can hardly take any other position. ... if >> psychoanalysis is >>>> carried to the logical conclusion that language is neurotic, it can jo= in >>>> hands >>>> with the twentieth century school of linguistic analysis -- a depth >> analysis >>>> of language -- inspired by that man with a real genius for the >>>> psychopathology >>>> of language, Wittgenstein. He said, "Philosophy is a battle against t= he >>>> bewitchment [Verhexung] of our intelligence by means of language." >>>>=20 >>>> Some of these linguistic analysts have had the project of getting rid >> of the >>>> disease in language by reducing language to purely operational >> terms. From >>>> the psychoanalytic point of view, a purely operational language would = be a >>>> language without a libidinal (erotic) component; and psychoanalysis wo= uld >>>> suggest that such a project is impossible because language, like man, >> has an >>>> erotic base, and also useless because man cannot be persuaded to opera= te >>>> (work) for operation's sake. Wittgenstein, if I understand him correc= tly, >>>> has >>>> a position much closer to that of psychoanalysis; he limits the task o= f >>>> philosophy to that of recognizing the inevitable insanity of >> language. "My >>>> aim is," he says, "to teach you to pass from a piece of disguised >> nonsense to >>>> something that is patent nonsense." "He who understands me finally >>>> recognizes >>>> [my propositions] as senseless." Psychoanalysis begins where Wittgens= tein >>>> ends. The problem is not the disease of language, but the disease cal= led >>>> man. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> -- Norman O. Brown, Life against Death >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>>> Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org >>>>=20 >>>> www.geocities.com/joncpoetics >>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>>>=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 08:30:27 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: "Forest Park: A Journal" Page 6 Comments: To: ASLE , IAJS , Invent-L , Webartery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm pleased to announce Page 6 of my ongoing "Forest Park: A Journal" = project. http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/Forest/Page-6/text-6.htm From beginning: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/Forest/Title.htm Please note that for citations hold your mouse over the beginning of the = quotation. MS Explorer browser preferred, Text size: Medium. Screen resolution = 1024X768 Feedback is appreciated. Thanks so much, Joel __________________________________ Joel Weishaus Visiting Faculty Department of English Portland State University Portland, Oregon Homepage: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 On-Line Archive: www.cddc.vt.edu/host/weishaus/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 11:32:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: The topic in a different light In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There's a lot of huffiness on both sides whenever discussions of=20 psychological theory come up, and I apologize for my own. But I'll stick=20 with what I thought was my original point (I never said anything about the= =20 historical significance of Freud), however badly put: one can base an=20 argument about any aspect of human behavior on a Freudian construct, but=20 one cannot do so as if that construct was a scientific given, as evolution= =20 by natural selection is. Mark. At 10:43 AM 2/7/2005, you wrote: >I sincerely appreciate Mark Weiss' patient and considered responses to my >huffy statements. His original point, that I was responding to here,= implied >that Freud's contributions are now considered insignificant, historically, >in psychology. This is incorrect. Also, the main reason that analytic >institutes and analysts in private practice don't get as many referrals at >they used to is managed care, not the ups and downs, in academia, and among >critics of the field, as to the significance of psychoanalysis. Managed= care >proponents are well aware of the convictions of psychoanalysts about the >necessity, in some cases, of long term psychotherapy; they don't like it >because they want to save money for insurance companies. This is an >understandable conflict. I have also been inside the profession for a long >time, in fact, over 20 years. I, as well as others, have noted countless >successes, along with numerous failures, of all kinds of psychotherapy >treatment. By the way, this is true of any kind of treatment, from >cardiology to dermatology, so it's no reflection on Freud at all. He= himself >was cautious, and says so in his published writings, as to the probable >successes of psychoanalytic treatment (see, "Psychoanalysis Terminable and >Interminable.") The significance of the unconscious, of the ego defenses, >and so many other contributions of psychoanalysis are very well recognized, >and were and are debated, as well. My point about Darwin was to illustrate >the fact that because something is contested, it doesn't mean it isn't >valid. Everyone now recognizes that psychoanalysis cannot be considered >"hard science." But it is, frankly, short sighted to attempt to obviate the >psychological and cultural contributions of Freud's ideas. The fact that >they are contested, that the debates remain alive, within and without the >profession, is a sign of life, not death. Like many types of poetry, >Freudian ideas continue to engender fierce and interesting debates, >loyalties and disavowals. What else is new? > >Nick P. > > >On 2/7/05 12:00 AM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > > > We apparently differ on this, which doesn't make my statement= dismissably > > cool yet tiresomely incorrect. I speak, by the way, from having been= inside > > the profession for many years and seen more than my share of diagnostic > > disasters by psychoanalysts. I in fact began as a Freudian. After a= couple > > of years in the field I decided against analytic training--I attended= the > > Ackerman Institute for Family Therapy instead, though I continued to= treat > > individuals as well, in both long and short-term treatment. I mention= this > > not to boast but to disabuse you of any assumption that I speak from > > ignorance. Note that the significance of Freudian slips, the very= existence > > of the unconscious, and the neurotic foundation of war are hardly > > uncontested. And comparing questioning of Darwin, who is endlessly > > replicable by disinterested observers (there has even been observed > > speciation by means of natural selection) with questioning of Freud= seems > > to me way off. > > > > I stand by my last sentence. Even in analytic training institutes it's > > becoming increasingly difficult to get analytic patients. > > > > None of which means that people who believe Freud's theories can't be= good > > therapists. Experienced therapists tend to do similar things in the= office, > > regardless of how they explain to themselves why they're doing them. Nor > > does it mean that Freud's work has no historical significance, and for= some > > it remains a useful set of metaphors. > > > > Regardless, Norman O. Brown's application of psychoanalytic theory,= which > > is where we started, is absurdly reductive. > > > > Mark > > > > At 07:59 PM 2/6/2005, you wrote: > >> [Sorry- my last post was sent out incorrectly.] > >> > >> "...outside the increasingly small circle of psychoanalysis, etc" > >> > >> > >> Popular interest in Freudian thinking has been coming and going since > >> the publication of *The Interpretation of Dreams* over 100 years ago.= =20 > Freud > >> brought so many psychological concepts into the popular foreground- > >> (repression,"Freudian slips", projection, the unconscious, the= importance > >> of' childhood and sexuality in everyday life, the significance of > >> narcissism, the neurotic foundations of war, etc, etc) that saying he= =20 > is not > >> taken seriously is becoming one of those increasingly "cool", yet=20 > tiresomely > >> incorrect contemporary clich=E9s. Lots of people question Darwin also= right > >> now, even going to the point of forbidding discussion of evolution in= the > >> classroom. People have been claiming the death of psychoanalysis since= its > >> birth, for many varying reasons. Of course Freud is taken seriously in= an > >> historical way as one of the founders of modern psychology. Virtually= =20 > every > >> supporter of managed care likes to encourage medication over long or= even > >> short term therapy. They don't approve of Freud either. They are also > >> frequently mistaken, though, of course, there have also been many=20 > abuses of > >> long term psychotherapy as well. Psychoanalysis may not be fashionable= =20 > right > >> now-neither is liberalism. That doesn't mean it isn't important. It > >> doesn't mean its day is over, either. > >> > >> Google results for "Freud": > >> about 4,830,000 > >> > >> > >> Nick P. > >> > >> > >> On 2/6/05 2:33 PM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > >> > >>> Psydchoanalysis, like all good science fiction, involves the rigid > >>> application of an invented generative hypothesis. "If it aint" would= =20 > throw > >>> the whole thing into a cocked hat. What's needed to render such=20 > theoretical > >>> games anything more than a rhetorical exercise is an exploration, not= an > >>> unquestioned, or even a for-the-sake-of-argument, acceptance, of the > >>> hypothesis. You haven't done this, nor, for that matter, did Freud,= who > >>> seemed to think that the metaphors that helped him explain his own=20 > emotions > >>> to himself were universal. One's self is an excessively small sample. > >>> > >>> A good methodology would be "if you think you know something throw it= out > >>> and observe instead." > >>> > >>> You should know, by the way, that outside of the increasingly small=20 > circle > >>> of psychoanalysis Freud isn't taken very seriously by students of > >> psychology. > >>> > >>> Mark > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> At 12:23 PM 2/6/2005, you wrote: > >>>> If, in the history of every child, language is first of all a mode of > >> erotic > >>>> expression and then later succumbs to the domination of the > >>>> reality-principle, > >>>> it follows, or perhaps we should say mirrors, the path taken by the= =20 > human > >>>> psyche and must share the ultimate fate of the human psyche, namely > >> neurosis > >>>> ... To regard human speech, the self-evident sign of our=20 > superiority over > >>>> animals, as a disease, or at least as essentially diseased, is for=20 > common > >>>> sense ... a monstrous hypothesis. Yet psychoanalysis, which insists > >> on the > >>>> necessary connection between cultural achievement and neurosis and=20 > between > >>>> social organization and neurosis, and which therefore defines man as= the > >>>> neurotic animal, can hardly take any other position. ... if > >> psychoanalysis is > >>>> carried to the logical conclusion that language is neurotic, it can= join > >>>> hands > >>>> with the twentieth century school of linguistic analysis -- a depth > >> analysis > >>>> of language -- inspired by that man with a real genius for the > >>>> psychopathology > >>>> of language, Wittgenstein. He said, "Philosophy is a battle against= the > >>>> bewitchment [Verhexung] of our intelligence by means of language." > >>>> > >>>> Some of these linguistic analysts have had the project of getting rid > >> of the > >>>> disease in language by reducing language to purely operational > >> terms. From > >>>> the psychoanalytic point of view, a purely operational language=20 > would be a > >>>> language without a libidinal (erotic) component; and psychoanalysis= =20 > would > >>>> suggest that such a project is impossible because language, like man, > >> has an > >>>> erotic base, and also useless because man cannot be persuaded to= operate > >>>> (work) for operation's sake. Wittgenstein, if I understand him=20 > correctly, > >>>> has > >>>> a position much closer to that of psychoanalysis; he limits the task= of > >>>> philosophy to that of recognizing the inevitable insanity of > >> language. "My > >>>> aim is," he says, "to teach you to pass from a piece of disguised > >> nonsense to > >>>> something that is patent nonsense." "He who understands me finally > >>>> recognizes > >>>> [my propositions] as senseless." Psychoanalysis begins where=20 > Wittgenstein > >>>> ends. The problem is not the disease of language, but the disease=20 > called > >>>> man. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- Norman O. Brown, Life against Death > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >>>> Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org > >>>> > >>>> www.geocities.com/joncpoetics > >>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ____________________________________________________________________ > >>>> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 09:28:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: The topic in a different light MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable And then a different light: "Managed Care"....now there's a health industry oxymoron worthy of = adding to your vocabulary. And wouldn't you just know it's a phrase = created by the insurance industry.=20 Of course, one must look to the bright side of the insurance equation. = Zillions of folks in the nation take bazillions of dollars worth of = medicines daily attempting to maintain some semblance of sanity and = health. Those medications are not covered by Medicare. However, the = current administration has seen fit to add Viagra costs to the "covered" = list of treatments Medicare will pay for. (Is there a presidential = moment hidden behind this choice for the administration?) No, we won't pay for your prozac or for your trip to the naturo-path for = calming sedative herbs and balms, but rest assured, we will pay to = repair your erectile dysfunction so you can continue to screw as ye are = screwed...ah, sweet poetry of life, at last we have found you. =20 Ya really gotta luv this country! We're a world citizenry who has it's = act together in terms of sorting through the crap of life and focusing = on what's really important. God bless us, everyone! Alex =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Nick Piombino=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 7:43 AM Subject: Re: The topic in a different light I sincerely appreciate Mark Weiss' patient and considered responses to = my huffy statements. His original point, that I was responding to here, = implied that Freud's contributions are now considered insignificant, = historically, in psychology. This is incorrect. Also, the main reason that analytic institutes and analysts in private practice don't get as many = referrals at they used to is managed care, not the ups and downs, in academia, and = among critics of the field, as to the significance of psychoanalysis. = Managed care proponents are well aware of the convictions of psychoanalysts about = the necessity, in some cases, of long term psychotherapy; they don't like = it because they want to save money for insurance companies. This is an understandable conflict. I have also been inside the profession for a = long time, in fact, over 20 years. I, as well as others, have noted = countless successes, along with numerous failures, of all kinds of psychotherapy treatment. By the way, this is true of any kind of treatment, from cardiology to dermatology, so it's no reflection on Freud at all. He = himself was cautious, and says so in his published writings, as to the = probable successes of psychoanalytic treatment (see, "Psychoanalysis Terminable = and Interminable.") The significance of the unconscious, of the ego = defenses, and so many other contributions of psychoanalysis are very well = recognized, and were and are debated, as well. My point about Darwin was to = illustrate the fact that because something is contested, it doesn't mean it isn't valid. Everyone now recognizes that psychoanalysis cannot be = considered "hard science." But it is, frankly, short sighted to attempt to = obviate the psychological and cultural contributions of Freud's ideas. The fact = that they are contested, that the debates remain alive, within and without = the profession, is a sign of life, not death. Like many types of poetry, Freudian ideas continue to engender fierce and interesting debates, loyalties and disavowals. What else is new? Nick P. On 2/7/05 12:00 AM, "Mark Weiss" = > wrote: > We apparently differ on this, which doesn't make my statement = dismissably > cool yet tiresomely incorrect. I speak, by the way, from having been = inside > the profession for many years and seen more than my share of = diagnostic > disasters by psychoanalysts. I in fact began as a Freudian. After a = couple > of years in the field I decided against analytic training--I = attended the > Ackerman Institute for Family Therapy instead, though I continued to = treat > individuals as well, in both long and short-term treatment. I = mention this > not to boast but to disabuse you of any assumption that I speak from > ignorance. Note that the significance of Freudian slips, the very = existence > of the unconscious, and the neurotic foundation of war are hardly > uncontested. And comparing questioning of Darwin, who is endlessly > replicable by disinterested observers (there has even been observed > speciation by means of natural selection) with questioning of Freud = seems > to me way off. >=20 > I stand by my last sentence. Even in analytic training institutes = it's > becoming increasingly difficult to get analytic patients. >=20 > None of which means that people who believe Freud's theories can't = be good > therapists. Experienced therapists tend to do similar things in the = office, > regardless of how they explain to themselves why they're doing them. = Nor > does it mean that Freud's work has no historical significance, and = for some > it remains a useful set of metaphors. >=20 > Regardless, Norman O. Brown's application of psychoanalytic theory, = which > is where we started, is absurdly reductive. >=20 > Mark >=20 > At 07:59 PM 2/6/2005, you wrote: >> [Sorry- my last post was sent out incorrectly.] >>=20 >> "...outside the increasingly small circle of psychoanalysis, etc" >>=20 >>=20 >> Popular interest in Freudian thinking has been coming and going = since >> the publication of *The Interpretation of Dreams* over 100 years = ago. Freud >> brought so many psychological concepts into the popular foreground- >> (repression,"Freudian slips", projection, the unconscious, the = importance >> of' childhood and sexuality in everyday life, the significance of >> narcissism, the neurotic foundations of war, etc, etc) that saying = he is not >> taken seriously is becoming one of those increasingly "cool", yet = tiresomely >> incorrect contemporary clich=E9s. Lots of people question Darwin = also right >> now, even going to the point of forbidding discussion of evolution = in the >> classroom. People have been claiming the death of psychoanalysis = since its >> birth, for many varying reasons. Of course Freud is taken seriously = in an >> historical way as one of the founders of modern psychology. = Virtually every >> supporter of managed care likes to encourage medication over long = or even >> short term therapy. They don't approve of Freud either. They are = also >> frequently mistaken, though, of course, there have also been many = abuses of >> long term psychotherapy as well. Psychoanalysis may not be = fashionable right >> now-neither is liberalism. That doesn't mean it isn't important. It >> doesn't mean its day is over, either. >>=20 >> Google results for "Freud": >> about 4,830,000 >>=20 >>=20 >> Nick P. >>=20 >>=20 >> On 2/6/05 2:33 PM, "Mark Weiss" = > wrote: >>=20 >>> Psydchoanalysis, like all good science fiction, involves the rigid >>> application of an invented generative hypothesis. "If it aint" = would throw >>> the whole thing into a cocked hat. What's needed to render such = theoretical >>> games anything more than a rhetorical exercise is an exploration, = not an >>> unquestioned, or even a for-the-sake-of-argument, acceptance, of = the >>> hypothesis. You haven't done this, nor, for that matter, did = Freud, who >>> seemed to think that the metaphors that helped him explain his own = emotions >>> to himself were universal. One's self is an excessively small = sample. >>>=20 >>> A good methodology would be "if you think you know something throw = it out >>> and observe instead." >>>=20 >>> You should know, by the way, that outside of the increasingly = small circle >>> of psychoanalysis Freud isn't taken very seriously by students of >> psychology. >>>=20 >>> Mark >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> At 12:23 PM 2/6/2005, you wrote: >>>> If, in the history of every child, language is first of all a = mode of >> erotic >>>> expression and then later succumbs to the domination of the >>>> reality-principle, >>>> it follows, or perhaps we should say mirrors, the path taken by = the human >>>> psyche and must share the ultimate fate of the human psyche, = namely >> neurosis >>>> ... To regard human speech, the self-evident sign of our = superiority over >>>> animals, as a disease, or at least as essentially diseased, is = for common >>>> sense ... a monstrous hypothesis. Yet psychoanalysis, which = insists >> on the >>>> necessary connection between cultural achievement and neurosis = and between >>>> social organization and neurosis, and which therefore defines man = as the >>>> neurotic animal, can hardly take any other position. ... if >> psychoanalysis is >>>> carried to the logical conclusion that language is neurotic, it = can join >>>> hands >>>> with the twentieth century school of linguistic analysis -- a = depth >> analysis >>>> of language -- inspired by that man with a real genius for the >>>> psychopathology >>>> of language, Wittgenstein. He said, "Philosophy is a battle = against the >>>> bewitchment [Verhexung] of our intelligence by means of = language." >>>>=20 >>>> Some of these linguistic analysts have had the project of getting = rid >> of the >>>> disease in language by reducing language to purely operational >> terms. From >>>> the psychoanalytic point of view, a purely operational language = would be a >>>> language without a libidinal (erotic) component; and = psychoanalysis would >>>> suggest that such a project is impossible because language, like = man, >> has an >>>> erotic base, and also useless because man cannot be persuaded to = operate >>>> (work) for operation's sake. Wittgenstein, if I understand him = correctly, >>>> has >>>> a position much closer to that of psychoanalysis; he limits the = task of >>>> philosophy to that of recognizing the inevitable insanity of >> language. "My >>>> aim is," he says, "to teach you to pass from a piece of disguised >> nonsense to >>>> something that is patent nonsense." "He who understands me = finally >>>> recognizes >>>> [my propositions] as senseless." Psychoanalysis begins where = Wittgenstein >>>> ends. The problem is not the disease of language, but the = disease called >>>> man. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> -- Norman O. Brown, Life against Death >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>>> Jon Corelis = jonc@stanfordalumni.org >>>>=20 >>>> = www.geocities.com/joncpoetics >>>> = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> = ____________________________________________________________________ >>>>=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 19:00:51 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tim Peterson Subject: The Analogous Series: Reese Inman and John Mercuri Dooley Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The Analogous Series presents: Reese Inman and John Mercuri Dooley http://www.analogous.net/inmandooley.html * * * Friday, February 11, 7:30 PM, 77 Massachusetts Ave, room 2-105, Cambridge, MA Reese Inman will show and discuss her paintings created with algorithms written by a computer program John Mercuri Dooley will read his poetry and discuss his use of chance procedures in composition * * * Reese Inman was born in Maine and currently resides in Boston, MA. A graduate of Harvard University and recipient of the David McCord arts award, Reese has studied painting, film, design and classical piano. As a multimedia producer, she has acted as creative director, designer and/or computer programmer for numerous educational websites, CD-ROMs and videos for technology, publishing, pharmaceutical and biotechnology companies. In fall 2003, she was a finalist in the Fitchburg Art Museum?s New England/New Talent competition and was selected by the Boston Society of New and Emerging Artists (BSNEA) as a featured visual artist for 2003-4. Reese is a 2004 graduate of the School of the Museum of Fine Arts Diploma program, a recipient of the 2004 Dana Pond Award in Painting, and is represented by Gallery NAGA, Boston. For further information, email: studio@ reeseinman.com. John Mercuri Dooley's poems have been published in Shampoo, untitled: a magazine of prose poetry, Spectaculum, Journal of Modern Writing and elsewhere; and his concrete and sound poetry has been presented at Brickbottom Gallery in Somerville, Mass., and Oni Gallery in Boston. He has a handful of manuscripts in search of publishers, the latest of which is "Alliterates, Alphabets, Catenas," and is currently at work on an extended series of conversation monologues composed using words chosen from Andy Warhols's novel, "a, a novel." He also co-curates Demolicious, a poetry/multimedia series focusing on experimental work, the first Sunday of every month at the Green Street Grill, 280 Green St., Cambridge, Mass. * * * DIRECTIONS: Enter at 77 Mass Ave. Walk straight down the hall until you reach building 4. Make a right at building 4 and walk down the hall, then turn left at building 2. Look for room 2-105. Please feel to contact me with any further questions regarding directions. * * * The Analogous Series is curated by Tim Peterson Spring schedule available at http://www.analogous.net/spring2005.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 14:17:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Thy hinge oh my high In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Mon, 7 Feb 2005, konrad wrote: > Alan wrote: >>> Even vision starts with retinal learning; > > All i can say is: learning WHAT? I realize that the piece you > posted that started this had partly to do with the assertion of > power through definitive against interpreted readings of > religious texts (among other things). And, sorry, i didn't mean By "retinal learning" Pribram was referencing that there are no incoming "raw data" - that the retina itself processes and encodes information before it's sent to the brain. And if you look at the various receptors in the eye - some are set for motion, some for static information, etc. It's all active processing. > The point about bringing up Joseph Smith (or Moses, or any of > the discoverers of Terma, buried Tibetan religious texts -- > sometimes they're said to be 'buried' in peoples' minds!!!) is > that there is The Book of Mormon and there are the Golden Plates > that got reburied. The reason i say 'it doesn't matter' what's > on the plates is that they are not a reference, they are a > cypher, a placeholder for something beyond the grasp of the > Book, which is a translation (only non-believers believe he > wrote it from scratch). The book de-marks the interface between > his visionary experience and the exfoliation of that into a > text. But that's still a DNA metaphor -- i need something else > to get at what i mean, but it's not possible: i need a metaphor > with only one term! > Not sure what you're referencing here. But the plates, aren't they more than a placeholder or cypher? They're also the punctum, the power source - they're the credibility. > One thing that interests me about, uh ... "experimental" cinema > (music, dance): it's a laboratory for inter-media translation, > that ekphrastic transition to language in trying to talk about > it. Of course this makes everything into a text :( so it's > apropos of what you're saying with "it's also important to > recognize the syntactics and semantics of those experiences," > except that you said that with respect to mystical or ecstatic > experiences rather than aesthetic ones. But the reason i find > it a lab, is that it's a sheltered environment to examine how > really incommensurate realms interact. My sense is there is a > gap between experience and language, that even writing is a > kind of reading, so talking/writing about non-verbal work is > like practice in dealing with life. (This view brings the critic > down a notch.) I pretty much agree with you here. And yes, everything _is_ a text, but the written text, the labanotation of the dance, for example - what I'm saying is that the text is somewhat independent, the harboring of authority. And I'd argue further that there is no gap between experience and language in the broader sense. Of course in the narrow sense - difficult for example to translate a mountain hike into english, not to mention music, film, etc. But by 'language' I'm referencing cog sci here - languaging in fact is what makes experience qua experience; otherwise it would be a rock on that hike, nothing more. > > I understand that you're saying that experience IS structure > (syntax), i.e. that that is the equivalent of 'everything is > reading.' Perhaps i misunderstand. > Not that it's structure, but that it's structured. > My sense is that 'experience without structure' is the > experience of being a 'conduit' or what many poets and seers > have described as being a vehicle for some kind of transmission, > though you don't have to be one to experience it. Hell, even > George W Bush thinks he talks to God. But that's the issue > you're getting at, isn't it? yes! don't forget God doesn't talk back - > > I'm way with you regarding the 'death of the author' as an echo > of the Death of God. But i'm way against you regarding cinema. > Every unreeling is a performance. I experience every > re-screening as irreducibly different, even though some may fall > into families of similar events. On top of that the film > 'exists' in the memories of spectators more unavoidably than a > poem 'exists' in the memory of readers, since a poem's text is > much more available to look up. Well, at my end, first, I can and do look up my own video as fast as a piece of writing; this is an attribute of the increasing ease of data storage. But no, watching a film isn't a performance in the sense I thought you were using. It's in fact being locked in to cinematic time, projector time, the authority of the predetermined psychoanalytics and mechanics of the editing. I thought you were referencing things like Jack Smith which were in part at the least improvisational, difficult to record. With traditional film, there's even an ur-text, the archival negative. Now interesting enough I think, early film was different; in the "silent" (not really) era (not really), the projectionist would improvise the hand-cranking speed to transform the time of the frames into something fluid and tuned to the action. This would of course also occur through over- or under-cranking when the film was made. Fluid times transformed into fluid times. The orchestra or other soundwork followed suit. > > To me the priority (authority, power) you suggest writing has, > using the metaphor of voltage required to inscribe a magnetic > trace, could also be inverted to show that the Achilles Heel is > having no eraser. > Yes, or that erasure is another authority in itself. That's why all those texts "under erasure" or with struck-out lines still visible, in say the theory of the late 70s through 80s, still conveyed authority, the author having it "both ways." Another example occurred often with net sex using ytalk or talk in unix - a partner would write a line - the other would see the line as it was being written across the screen - and then the line would suddenly be erased - as if it were the _wrong_ line - but appearing long enough to create a seduction, a trembling, in the other who watched the wisp of language under transformation. > Is the rubber heel a solution? > An uncomfortable question if one's reading Jelinek (Wonderful Wonderful Times) which I am at the moment! - Alan > > konrad > > > > ^Z > nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 15:06:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Mac/low re/ports? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Would anyone care to give those of us as far out as Cassini some words(performances, readings, compositions, etc.) on the Tribute to = Jackson Mac Low @ The Poetry Project on Saturday afternoon last...? Would be much appreciated. Thanks. Gerald S. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 15:20:27 -0500 Reply-To: kevin thurston Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: Mac/low re/ports? In-Reply-To: <001c01c50d50$79653db0$5671a918@yourae066c3a9b> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit is/was there another one besides the one 3.5? or are you requesting a report from the future? Tribute to Jackson Mac Low Poetry * Music * Performance * Dance at the Poetry Project St. Mark's Church 131 E 10th Street, New York, NY 10003 on Saturday, March 5, 2005, at 1 pm. On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 15:06:13 -0500, Gerald Schwartz wrote: > Would anyone care to give those of us as far out as Cassini > some words(performances, readings, compositions, etc.) on the Tribute to Jackson Mac Low @ The Poetry Project on Saturday afternoon last...? > > Would be much appreciated. > > Thanks. > Gerald S. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 16:53:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Please Read- URGENT!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Haiku (for you know who) meat & threat don't rhyme but they should www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 22:57:24 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: 2/4/05 In-Reply-To: <7b.3e2cb73d.2f34e162@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Happy Birthday from me, too - even if three days later... And at least as many, candles I mean, cheers, Anny On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 06:32:28 -0800 (PST), Charlotte Mandel wrote: > So Happy Birthday Alan! > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 17:00:26 -0500 Reply-To: rumblek@bellsouth.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Rumble Subject: Lucifer Poetics Group at The Flea February 11 -- Washington, DC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please join us for an exciting Washington, DC, Poetry Event on Friday, February 11th at 7:30 pm. The Lucifer Poetics Group, a NC-based affiliation of artists, will be reading at The Flea in Friendship Heights. The Flea is located 4604 N. Park Ave, a few blocks north of the Friendship Heights Metro. A map is available at http://users.erols.com/friendshiphtsvillage/AboutCommty.html#PFO The Flea is roughly where Number 11 is. Call 202-210-5623 with questions. The Lucifer Poetics Group is a loose affiliation of poets who mostly reside in and around North Carolina, and describe themselves as follows: "We have no, nor seek, a specific aesthetic agenda: our collective is strongest when splintered. Collaboration sometimes occurs and involves, inevitably, organs of influence. We have no relationship -- stated, contracted, enforceable, nor traceable -- with the idea often referred to as Satan. Our only shared belief is that poetry is a group activity." The list of readers: Marcus Slease is a native of Portadown, N. Ireland but is currently a resident alien. His blog is http://marcusslease.blogspot.com Todd Sandvik lives and writes in Carrboro, NC. He would like you to publish his work and/or buy him a drink. Chris Vitiello lives in Durham, NC. He has just finished a manuscript entitled Irresponsibility, and his Nouns Swarm A Verb was published by Xurban in 1999. His blog is located at http://the_delay.blogspot.com/ Tony Tost is the author of Invisible Bride. A chapbook, World Jelly, is forthcoming from Effing Press this year. His blog is http://unquietgrave.blogspot.com Brian Howe is a freelance music critic and poet from Carrboro, NC. He contributes regularly to Pitchforkmedia.com and Paste Magazine, and his poems have appeared in Eratio and Pedestal. He is currently reading all the Brian Evenson he can get his hands on, and trying to devise new ways to make machines write poems for him. Ken Rumble is the director of the Desert City Poetry Series and list administrator for the Lucifer Poetics Group. His poems have been published or are forthcoming in NoTell Motel, Effing Magazine, Sidereality, Drunken Boat, Word For/Word, Parakeet, and VeRT among others. Tessa Joseph is a displaced Yankee and doctoral candidate at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, where she is writing her dissertation on group formation and the American poetic avant-garde. She received her MFA from Cornell University in 1998. Her poems and reviews have appeared in Sulfur, the Seneca Review, the Carolina Quarterly, Thel, and other journals. She edits the literary magazine the Carolina Quarterly. Randall Williams is a poet, freelance journalist, film maker, and social activist; an essay on poetics can be found in issue 7 of Word For/Word. E. V. Noechel is the author of _Museum Mundane_ and _A Murder of Crows_. We hope to see you there and for all festivities afterwards. ---------------------------------------------------------- For more information about upcoming events, or to subscribe to this list, check out our website at http://www.dcpoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 17:30:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: blue poets in a red state IOWA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone know if there are poets in Iowa? I mean does anyone know a = poet in Iowa? Michael ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 17:39:29 -0500 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: question Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT does anyone have a working email for copper canyon press? the one on the website keeps bouncing back. rob -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 17:41:45 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: How To Do Things With Wormswork Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed a storm of quotation marks now rests in puddles, you've lost all coyness, Wormswork, that you must storm down... you'll not lay devised marks? we're confined to mouthfuls of quotation marks which have nothing to do with Wormswork's warm-blooded grandeur... when the storm struck we were long past flinches, and certainly unprepared for running and hiding... our mouthfuls WERE to be distributed to a still-wearier crowd that waits on that red bell announcing the arrival of a strom of quotations marks... if that crowd has not more luck than us, then the next crowd's crowd perhaps... even with our forebears, village errors broke apart, yes, yes, whenever they thought of us, and we've learned to think ahead even more --> the marks puddle in the trench we've dug above the elm-tops... a comma? 'twas recess... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 17:42:16 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: from GRANDUNCLES OF THE CATTLETRADE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed megarynchos of creallocate of sprnyde of lyreams of padmirme creallocate of sprnyde of lyreams of padmirme of hierxoti sprnyde of lyreams of padmirme of hierxoti of eorlscipe lyreams of padmirme of hierxoti of eorlscipe of aenesidemus padmirme of hierxoti of eorlscipe of aenesidemus of logomisia hierxoti of eorlscipe of aenesidemus of logomisia of geulincx eorlscipe of aenesidemus of logomisia of geulincx of foirades aenesidemus of logomisia of geulincx of foirades of beorhtra logomisia of geulincx of foirades of beorhtra of scrutineer geulincx of foirades of beorhtra of scrutineer of tourbillion foirades of beorhtra of scrutineer of tourbillion of weold beorhtra of scrutineer of tourbillion of weold of clinquant scrutineer of tourbillion of weold of clinquant of iphimedia tourbillion of weold of clinquant of iphimedia of sepulchress... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 15:45:10 -0800 Reply-To: Layne Russell Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Layne Russell Subject: Re: poet in alaska MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Billie Wilson, Juneau. akwilson@gci.net Layne ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Michael Rothenberg=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 3:12 PM Subject: poet in alaska does anyone know a poet living in alaska? Michael ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 16:19:08 -0800 Reply-To: Layne Russell Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Layne Russell Subject: Re: [Native Truth] The Broken Circle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I too have a "ghosted" Indian ancestor. We don't know exactly how she obtained her American maiden surname "Christian" - though we do know many Indians were "given" this same last name. She was Cherokee, from the border area of Tennessee/Virginia - Bristol. The Cherokees were horrifically "removed" from this area in 1838. Who knows under what circumstances she and her parents lived there in the 1850's when she was born. There are some things we know about her later life, as my father knew her. My poem for her, "blood," was published by Minotaur Press (Jim Gove). Excerpt from "blood": what lay in your heart what lay in your dark eyes the dark Indian eyes as you knew and felt the folly what did you not say? how hard was it to give it all up how hard was it to keep it to keep your Indian beneath the covers beneath your clothes beneath your face and smile Layne Russell ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Vincent To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [Native Truth] The Broken Circle Thanks for posting this, Alan. Like no doubt many on this list, I have several "ghosted' Indians in my family ancestry. I used to think that was a romantic point of honor. Until I read the history of how Native American women and children were abducted and either "married" or "raised" by white men and families. I think this persons approach of tribal "associates" is a good one, undoubtedly, beset with difficulties as well. Annually, at the end of February I go to Eureka, California to the tribal and the larger community mourning of the 1863 massacre of Wyots on Indian Island and simultaneously, the celebration of the Wyot New Year. My step-grandmother was part Wyot - her grandmother and grandmother's sister were both kidnapped and enslaved by white families in the 1850's. I was close to my step grandmother, Assimilation? Indeed. We never spoke about being part Indian. In the Thirties she was a member of the Heritage Book Club - I still keep her case bound copies of Conrad's Argosy and Alexander Pope's translations of the Iliad and the Odyssey - the Pope, by the way, is not readable! However, I keep them as they remain emblematic of a time. It is forever interesting to me - the ghosted memories (Indian or not) that run under the radar of most educations, as well as families. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 18:35:21 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: blue poets in a red state IOWA In-Reply-To: <001401c50d64$afd37a10$58d9ea04@MICHAEL> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cole Swensen is in Iowa by the way Iowa is not a red state Bush won it by 4000 votes R Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Michael Rothenberg > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 4:31 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: blue poets in a red state IOWA > > > Does anyone know if there are poets in Iowa? I mean does anyone > know a poet in Iowa? > Michael > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 18:43:42 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: The SCHOOL FOR DESIGNING A SOCIETY Comments: To: WRYTING-L Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please help us find students! (If you'd like us to mail you brochures, send your regular mail address.) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The SCHOOL FOR DESIGNING A SOCIETY, in its 14th year, is a project of teachers, performers, composers, and activists. It is an ongoing experiment in making temporary living environments where the question "What would I consider a desirable society?" is given serious playful thinking discussion, and taken as input to creative projects. SUMMER SESSION: June 1-30, 2005 The Gesundheit! Institute Hillsboro, West Virginia FALL SESSION: Sept 6-Dec 9, 2005 Urbana, Illinois WINTER SESSION: Jan 17-March 17, 2006 Urbana, Illinois For more information, visit www.designingsociety.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 20:57:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City presents Firewheel Editions/Sentence and Bob Kerr Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit please forward --------------- Boog City presents d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press Firewheel Editions/Sentence: A Journal of Prose Poetics (Danbury, Conn.) this Thurs., Feb. 10, 6 p.m., free ACA Galleries 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. NYC Event will be hosted by Firewheel Editions/Sentence editor Brian Clements Featuring readings from Brian Clements Elisabeth Frost Janet Kaplan Christine Boyka Kluge Ben Miller Daniel Nester With music by Bob Kerr There will be wine, cheese, and fruit, too. Curated and with an introduction by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum Directions: C/E to 23rd St., 1/9 to 18th St. Venue is bet. 10th and 11th avenues http://firewheel-editions.org/ Next month: Habernicht Press (San Francisco), March 3 -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 19:57:25 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Murray, Christine" Subject: Announcement: Poetry_Heat readings--University of Texas, Arlington, Spring 2005 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable chris murray's Poetry_Heat reading series **=20 at University of Texas, Arlington, in conjunction with Skanky Possum Press, Austin's 12th Street Books, Firewheel Editions/Sentence: a Journal of Prose Poetics and Marsh Hawk Press, are pleased to present the following events for Spring 2005: =20 Brian Clements, Susan Briante, Matthew Dickman Friday, Feb 18, 7:30 pm Rady Room, 6th floor, Nedderman Hall=20 University of Texas, Arlington Arlington, Texas reception to follow, TBA * Brian Clements, Joe Ahearn, Susan Briante,=20 Matthew Dickman, Darryl Scroggins, Chris Murray Saturday, Feb 19, 7:00 pm 12th Street Books 827 W. 12th Street Austin, Texas reception to follow, TBA * Eileen Tabios, Sandy McIntosh Friday, Mar 4, 7:00 pm Rady Room, 6th floor, Nedderman Hall University of Texas, Arlington Arlington, Texas Reception to follow, TBA * Eileen Tabios, Sandy McIntosh Saturday, Mar 5, 7:00 pm 12th Street Books 827 W. 12th St. Austin, TX Reception to follow, TBA * While here in north Texas, Eileen and Sandy have also booked the = following reading sponsored by Marsh Hawk Press, and with the gracious help of Shin Yu = Pai:=20 Eileen Tabios & Sandy McIntosh=20 Sunday, Mar 6 5:30 pm Paperbacks Plus=20 6115 La Vista Dr Dallas, Texas 75214 Reception to follow, TBA * Plans for future readings are currently in the works=20 for at least two spectacular readings in fall 2005: --Shin Yu Pai, who has a new chapbook out, _Unnecessary Roughness_=20 from Jukka Pekka Kervinen's xPress(ed) books. --Jennifer L Knox with a new book from Soft Skull soon to be released,=20 and Shanna Compton, whose _Down Spooky_ won this year's Winnow Press = Open Poetry Award ** Kind thanks to poet and student assistant, James Ola, for helping to keep Poetry_Heat together. Many thanks, as = well,=20 to former student assistants, Cyndi Dumas and Kristina Graham. Stay tuned for more Texas heat, Y'all! Best Wishes,=20 chris murray http://texfiles.blogspot.com http://e-po.blogspot.com =20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 21:09:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: Hejinian by webcast Feb 22 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Language is running Language remains Wanting to live it, having wanted to, we live we live in it --from Lyn Hejinian, "Happily" LYN HEJINIAN at the KELLY WRITERS HOUSE join us by live webcast ---------------------------------------------------------------------- the Kelly Writers House Fellows program presents Lyn Hejinian 10:30 AM (eastern time) Tuesday, February 22 a conversation (with audience Q&A) conducted by Al Filreis To participate via webcast, simply rsvp to: << whfellow@writing.upenn.edu >> Anyone with a computer and an internet connection can participate. Participants in the webcast will be able to interact with Lyn Hejinian by email or telephone. For more information about the Kelly Writers House webcast series, see http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~wh/webcasts/ Those who rsvp will receive further instructions. For more about Lyn Hejinian, see: http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~whfellow/hejinian.html Kelly Writers House 3805 Locust Walk University of Pennsylvania 215 573-WRIT www.writing.upenn.edu/~wh * - * Writers House Fellows is funded by a generous grant from Paul Kelly. previous Fellows: James Alan McPherson 2004 Russell Banks Susan Sontag 2003 Walter Bernstein Laurie Anderson John Ashbery 2002 Charles Fuller Michael Cunningham June Jordan 2001 David Sedaris Tony Kushner Grace Paley 2000 Robert Creeley John Edgar Wideman Gay Talese 1999 recordings of live webcasts featuring the Fellows can be found here: http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~wh/webcasts/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 20:31:53 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Readings @ The Contemporary: Olson, Hunley, and Belz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thursday, February 10 @ 7:00 PM READINGS @ THE CONTEMPORARY presents poets KIRBY OLSON, who has written two books of criticism, Comedy After Postmodernism (2001) and Gregory Corso: Doubting Thomist (2002), as well as numerous sparky little poems; TOM HUNLEY, Kentuckian author of The Tongue (2004) and Still, There's a Glimmer (2004); and AARON BELZ, series curator, author of Bangs (2002), and current Verse Press featured Younger American Poet. Contemporary Art Museum 3750 Washington Blvd (corner of Spring) Saint Louis, Missouri 63108 Series Calendar: http://belz.net/readings/ For more information: aaron@belz.net Series sponsored by Schlafly Beer, LILUMA, and Left Bank Books ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 21:41:23 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Updated Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com In-Reply-To: <00a801c50d86$5a991dd0$230110ac@AaronDell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com has been updated with all the Chicago, Milwaukee and Madison readings for February, March and April please patronize our great reading series this late winter and early spring- or consider a trip to Chicago Milwaukee or Madison for a reading- Regards Ray Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 20:09:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jon Corelis Subject: Re: The topic in a different light Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I offered the Norman O. Brown quote here because I thought it has a strik= ing and specific relevance to contemporary poetics. Brown wrote that some "linguistic analysts have had the project of getting rid of the disease i= n language by reducing language to purely operational terms." It seems to = me that some contemporary American poets have engaged in a similar project t= o create a poetry which uses language purely operationally, and for the sam= e reason: as part of what Wittgenstein called philosophy's "battle against= the bewitchment [Verhexung] of our intelligence by means of language." I think that this project, as Brown also says of the project of the lingu= istic analysts he mentioned, will fail because it is impossible, and anyway wou= ld be pointless if it succeeded. As Brown says, "a purely operational language= would be a language without a libidinal (erotic) component; and psychoana= lysis would suggest that such a project is impossible because language, like ma= n, has an erotic base, and also useless because man cannot be persuaded to operate (work) for operation's sake." For "language" in the foregoing sentence substitute "poetry," and you can take it as a critique of certai= n current avant-garde poetics. Poetry, like psychoanalysis, should begin where Wittgenstein ends. A Wittgensteinian poetics will result only in an aridly endless restatement= of the problem, but what the poet must provide is a solution. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org = www.geocities.com/joncpoetics =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ____________________________________________________________________ = ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 20:15:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: blue poets in a red state IOWA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Michael, Hurtful question this! Of course there are both poets and pigs in Iowa. = The real question is which of the two voted blue? Alex=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Michael Rothenberg=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 2:30 PM Subject: blue poets in a red state IOWA Does anyone know if there are poets in Iowa? I mean does anyone know a = poet in Iowa? Michael ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 22:36:49 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: [_arc.hive_] from GRANDUNCLES OF THE CATTLETRADE Comments: To: WRYTING-L Disciplines , spidertangle@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chercuthyl XoToX reads a Jeff Harrison poem. And very quickly, I might add. http://joglars.org/radio_caterpillar/mp3s/megarynchos.mp3 On Monday, February 7, 2005, at 05:53 PM, jeff harrison wrote: megarynchos of creallocate of sprnyde of lyreams of padmirme creallocate of sprnyde of lyreams of padmirme of hierxoti sprnyde of lyreams of padmirme of hierxoti of eorlscipe lyreams of padmirme of hierxoti of eorlscipe of aenesidemus padmirme of hierxoti of eorlscipe of aenesidemus of logomisia hierxoti of eorlscipe of aenesidemus of logomisia of geulincx eorlscipe of aenesidemus of logomisia of geulincx of foirades aenesidemus of logomisia of geulincx of foirades of beorhtra logomisia of geulincx of foirades of beorhtra of scrutineer geulincx of foirades of beorhtra of scrutineer of tourbillion foirades of beorhtra of scrutineer of tourbillion of weold beorhtra of scrutineer of tourbillion of weold of clinquant scrutineer of tourbillion of weold of clinquant of iphimedia tourbillion of weold of clinquant of iphimedia of sepulchress... "The word is the first stereotype." Isidore Isou, 1947. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 00:06:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: song of songs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed song of songs overfloweth inheriteth revealeth falleth swimmeth darkeneth biteth bereaveth waxeth denieth stealeth gendereth retaineth meddleth perverteth refresheth leadeth staggereth forgetteth woundeth diggeth commandeth chasteneth envieth accuseth judgeth playeth thinketh selleth shameth trickleth purifieth meshullemeth challengeth hazarmaveth dresseth enlargeth heareth contendeth overfloweth azmaveth revealeth upbraideth taketh slumbereth appeareth rejoiceth coupleth overtaketh findeth jetheth lifteth filleth provideth denieth slayeth careth watereth alloweth worketh contemneth subdueth exerciseth satisfieth kirhareseth poureth plotteth listeth sendeth glorieth trickleth divineth bendeth cleaveth denieth agreeth girdeth thresheth mephibosheth sheweth reigneth rageth steppeth nourisheth zoheleth hurleth fainteth biteth declineth departeth buyeth frameth loseth putteth warreth smelleth sprinkleth waxeth reserveth carrieth peleth draweth laboureth heareth fluttereth overthroweth deserveth rideth carrieth tarrieth yieldeth tanhumeth accepteth selleth comforteth provoketh eightieth mocketh heweth holdeth ordereth faileth reserveth defileth striketh catcheth aboundeth adorneth condemneth esteemeth troubleth killeth sitteth pleaseth redeemeth separateth openeth troubleth inclineth faileth biddeth dealeth declareth bloweth flourisheth winnoweth leaveth subdueth praiseth sealeth separateth prospereth travaileth mourneth beareth hurleth darkeneth fiftieth foldeth deviseth listeth cleaveth purgeth avengeth slippeth wavereth telleth appertaineth setteth confesseth _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 00:07:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: from the US Budget (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed from the US Budget query site - Concerning the disaster as US domestic programs are slashed so we can continue slaughter worldwide: This is the search report for the search you ran on Feb 13 01:42:52 2004. It is a temporary file, and will expire about an hour after the search. ------------------------------------------- Searching /wais/indexes/2006_budget... Your query: ($$NOPTOKEN$$) is equivalent to: ( ) and was interpreted as: The database contains 1,372,660 words in 471 documents. The database contains the following fields: body - All non-fielded text book - Budget Book The search found -2 documents. It took less than a second. --------------------------------------------- The search was performed by a WAIS Inc server: WAIS Server 2.1.6. For more information on this product contact the database administrator. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 00:07:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: nikuko and julu at googlism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed nikuko and julu at googlism nikuko is odelle is ora is nikuko is the first nikuko is partly naked nikuko is my mother nikuko is sealed by nikuko is now known as ib9321805 *** ib9321805 is now known as cs7991917 nikuko is happy morning nikuko is humiliated every single day of her life nikuko is jumping up and down nikuko is tru swole glans glass nikuko is tru swole nikuko is not really nikuko is in my nikuko is wet nikuko is coming out this spring as well nikuko is surpassing nikuko is awake and alert and creates nikuko nikuko is your radio radio radio alway nikuko is ideal for me; it's me traveling those paths nikuko is holding my mind against my breasts julu is the upscale bar caribe julu is turned out by mother julu is me julu is on stage julu is kotanopan julu is now cleaned from mewling penis julu is non julu is right julu is the founder of orjbc julu is crushed by ecomog forces julu is 1 kilometer from tonga julu is wearing lovely white panties julu is grains julu is in a very violent mood julu is turning me out julu is higland country julu is a story julu is an ancient name julu is in 400 julu is a zulu bantu julu is quite safe for now and hav all their leter julu is drawing close and we really want this to memorable _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 01:24:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: The topic in a different light In-Reply-To: <850JBgTkh8944S12.1107835746@uwdvg001.cms.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Jon: Wouldn't it be sufficient to say that you don't enjoy certain poetries without pulling in big guns of dubious accuracy to demonstrate that no one else should enjoy them either? Mark At 11:09 PM 2/7/2005, you wrote: >I offered the Norman O. Brown quote here because I thought it has a striking >and specific relevance to contemporary poetics. Brown wrote that some >"linguistic analysts have had the project of getting rid of the disease in >language by reducing language to purely operational terms." It seems to me >that some contemporary American poets have engaged in a similar project to >create a poetry which uses language purely operationally, and for the same >reason: as part of what Wittgenstein called philosophy's "battle against the >bewitchment [Verhexung] of our intelligence by means of language." > >I think that this project, as Brown also says of the project of the linguistic >analysts he mentioned, will fail because it is impossible, and anyway would be >pointless if it succeeded. As Brown says, "a purely operational language >would be a language without a libidinal (erotic) component; and psychoanalysis >would suggest that such a project is impossible because language, like man, >has an erotic base, and also useless because man cannot be persuaded to >operate (work) for operation's sake." For "language" in the foregoing >sentence substitute "poetry," and you can take it as a critique of certain >current avant-garde poetics. > >Poetry, like psychoanalysis, should begin where Wittgenstein ends. A >Wittgensteinian poetics will result only in an aridly endless restatement of >the problem, but what the poet must provide is a solution. > > >===================================== >Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org > > www.geocities.com/joncpoetics >===================================== > > >____________________________________________________________________ > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 00:37:33 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Benjamin Basan Subject: Re: blue poets in a red state IOWA In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I might be able to find one or two for you... What's this project about again? In fact there are far more pigs than poets in Iowa and far more corn than both combined (rumor has it, though, that the pigs eat it and the poets produce it). On 2/7/05 10:15 PM, "alexander saliby" wrote: > Michael, > Hurtful question this! Of course there are both poets and pigs in Iowa. The > real question is which of the two voted blue? > Alex > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Michael Rothenberg > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 2:30 PM > Subject: blue poets in a red state IOWA > > > Does anyone know if there are poets in Iowa? I mean does anyone know a poet > in Iowa? > Michael ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 03:49:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: The topic in a different light MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit never quite managed care myself ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 03:52:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Mac/low re/ports? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit gerald unless i'm mistaken that's march 5th sat for jackson's memorial ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 07:19:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Shankar, Ravi (English)" Subject: Re: Satirical Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Great suggestions, all; glad to have such a wealth of material to choose = from. And I suppose I'm compelled to exhibit a couple of satirical poems = of my own as due recompense-=20 -RS =20 Ten Truisms and a Lie =20 Spatulas make passable flyswatters. On average, double coupons mean twice as much. To make a monkey a man, offer a cigarette. Orange is the new pink; pink was the new black. Punk rock panders. Sour cream and onion sells more than salt and vinegar. Some prefer bromides to platitudes. The phrase, irony is based on misrelationship discovered by the =91I=92 between existence and the idea of existence, is = plagiarized. Aristophanes meant well when he put Socrates in a basket. Even the mullet has risen! And from Instrumentality- The Flock=92s Reply to the Passionate Shepherd After Christopher Marlowe =20 Marooned upon this grassy knoll, We wander lost from vale to pole, Our wooly backs resemble thorn, It=92s been a while since we=92ve been shorn. You waste much time trying to woo That nymph who never will see you. Since it=92s a shepherd that you are, You=92re better off courting a star. =20 But over here, your loyal flock Needs no clasp, no precious rock To follow you from field to field: If love=92s your need, we can but yield. =20 Have you not heard us cry and bleat When you approach us, then retreat? We miss your orders and your laugh, We even miss your clouting staff. =20 Save those gowns made of our wool, No need to make belts or to pull Posies from the hillside=92s crease=97 That nymph is what we call a tease. =20 Just as the hours wing away, There are some sheep that love to play: If such delights your mind might move Then live with us and be our love. =20 ***************=20 Ravi Shankar=20 Poet-in-Residence=20 Assistant Professor CCSU - English Dept. 860-832-2766=20 shankarr@ccsu.edu=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 07:31:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Shankar, Ravi (English)" Subject: Re: Satirical Poetry? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Regarding Auden's satirical work-=20 =20 The Unknown Citizen=20 W. H. Auden=20 (To JS/07 M 378 This Marble Monument Is Erected by the State) He was found by the Bureau of Statistics to be One against whom there was no official complaint, And all the reports on his conduct agree That, in the modern sense of an old-fashioned word, he was a saint, For in everything he did he served the Greater Community. Except for the War till the day he retired He worked in a factory and never got fired, But satisfied his employers, Fudge Motors Inc. Yet he wasn't a scab or odd in his views, For his Union reports that he paid his dues, (Our report on his Union shows it was sound) And our Social Psychology workers found That he was popular with his mates and liked a drink. The Press are convinced that he bought a paper every day And that his reactions to advertisements were normal in every way. Policies taken out in his name prove that he was fully insured, And his Health-card shows he was once in a hospital but left it cured. Both Producers Research and High-Grade Living declare He was fully sensible to the advantages of the Instalment Plan And had everything necessary to the Modern Man, A phonograph, a radio, a car and a frigidaire. Our researchers into Public Opinion are content=20 That he held the proper opinions for the time of year; When there was peace, he was for peace: when there was war, he went. He was married and added five children to the population, Which our Eugenist says was the right number for a parent of his generation. And our teachers report that he never interfered with their education. Was he free? Was he happy? The question is absurd: Had anything been wrong, we should certainly have heard. =A0 From Another Time by W. H. Auden, published by Random House. Copyright = =A9 1940 W. H. Auden, renewed by The Estate of W. H. Auden. Used by = permission of Curtis Brown, Ltd. ***************=20 Ravi Shankar=20 Poet-in-Residence=20 Assistant Professor CCSU - English Dept. 860-832-2766=20 shankarr@ccsu.edu=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 08:48:32 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: "true artists scorn nothing" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For myself, I cannot live without my art. But I have never placed it above everything. If, on the other hand, I need it, it is because it cannot be separated from my fellow men, and it allows me to live, such as I am, on one level with them. It is a means of stirring the greatest number of people by offering them a privileged picture of common joys and sufferings. It obliges the artist not to keep himself apart; it subjects him to the most humble and the most universal truth. And often he who has chosen the fate of the artist because he felt himself to be different soon realizes that he can maintain neither his art nor his difference unless he admits that he is like the others. The artist forges himself to the others, midway between the beauty he cannot do without and the community he cannot tear himself away from. That is why true artists scorn nothing: they are obliged to understand rather than to judge. And if they have to take sides in this world, they can perhaps side only with that society in which, according to Nietzsche's great words, not the judge but the creator will rule, whether he be a worker or an intellectual. By the same token, the writer's role is not free from difficult duties. By definition he cannot put himself today in the service of those who make history; he is at the service of those who suffer it. Otherwise, he will be alone and deprived of his art. Not all the armies of tyranny with their millions of men will free him from his isolation, even and particularly if he falls into step with them. But the silence of an unknown prisoner, abandoned to humiliations at the other end of the world, is enough to draw the writer out of his exile, at least whenever, in the midst of the privileges of freedom, he manages not to forget that silence, and to transmit it in order to make it resound by means of his art. None of us is great enough for such a task. But in all circumstances of life, in obscurity or temporary fame, cast in the irons of tyranny or for a time free to express himself, the writer can win the heart of a living community that will justify him, on the one condition that he will accept to the limit of his abilities the two tasks that constitute the greatness of his craft: the service of truth and the service of liberty. Because his task is to unite the greatest possible number of people, his art must not compromise with lies and servitude which, wherever they rule, breed solitude. Whatever our personal weaknesses may be, the nobility of our craft will always be rooted in two commitments, difficult to maintain: the refusal to lie about what one knows and the resistance to oppression. For more than twenty years of an insane history, hopelessly lost like all the men of my generation in the convulsions of time, I have been supported by one thing: by the hidden feeling that to write today was an honour because this activity was a commitment - and a commitment not only to write. Specifically, in view of my powers and my state of being, it was a commitment to bear, together with all those who were living through the same history, the misery and the hope we shared. These men, who were born at the beginning of the First World War, who were twenty when Hitler came to power and the first revolutionary trials were beginning, who were then confronted as a completion of their education with the Spanish Civil War, the Second World War, the world of concentration camps, a Europe of torture and prisons - these men must today rear their sons and create their works in a world threatened by nuclear destruction. Nobody, I think, can ask them to be optimists. And I even think that we should understand - without ceasing to fight it - the error of those who in an excess of despair have asserted their right to dishonour and have rushed into the nihilism of the era. But the fact remains that most of us, in my country and in Europe, have refused this nihilism and have engaged upon a quest for legitimacy. They have had to forge for themselves an art of living in times of catastrophe in order to be born a second time and to fight openly against the instinct of death at work in our history. Each generation doubtless feels called upon to reform the world. Mine knows that it will not reform it, but its task is perhaps even greater. It consists in preventing the world from destroying itself. Heir to a corrupt history, in which are mingled fallen revolutions, technology gone mad, dead gods, and worn-out ideologies, where mediocre powers can destroy all yet no longer know how to convince, where intelligence has debased itself to become the servant of hatred and oppression, this generation starting from its own negations has had to re-establish, both within and without, a little of that which constitutes the dignity of life and death. In a world threatened by disintegration, in which our grand inquisitors run the risk of establishing forever the kingdom of death, it knows that it should, in an insane race against the clock, restore among the nations a peace that is not servitude, reconcile anew labour and culture, and remake with all men the Ark of the Covenant. It is not certain that this generation will ever be able to accomplish this immense task, but already it is rising everywhere in the world to the double challenge of truth and liberty and, if necessary, knows how to die for it without hate. Wherever it is found, it deserves to be saluted and encouraged, particularly where it is sacrificing itself. In any event, certain of your complete approval, it is to this generation that I should like to pass on the honour that you have just given me. At the same time, after having outlined the nobility of the writer's craft, I should have put him in his proper place. He has no other claims but those which he shares with his comrades in arms: vulnerable but obstinate, unjust but impassioned for justice, doing his work without shame or pride in view of everybody, not ceasing to be divided between sorrow and beauty, and devoted finally to drawing from his double existence the creations that he obstinately tries to erect in the destructive movement of history. Who after all this can expect from him complete solutions and high morals? Truth is mysterious, elusive, always to be conquered. Liberty is dangerous, as hard to live with as it is elating. We must march toward these two goals, painfully but resolutely, certain in advance of our failings on so long a road. What writer would from now on in good conscience dare set himself up as a preacher of virtue? For myself, I must state once more that I am not of this kind. I have never been able to renounce the light, the pleasure of being, and the freedom in which I grew up. But although this nostalgia explains many of my errors and my faults, it has doubtless helped me toward a better understanding of my craft. It is helping me still to support unquestioningly all those silent men who sustain the life made for them in the world only through memory of the return of brief and free happiness. Thus reduced to what I really am, to my limits and debts as well as to my difficult creed, I feel freer, in concluding, to comment upon the extent and the generosity of the honour you have just bestowed upon me, freer also to tell you that I would receive it as an homage rendered to all those who, sharing in the same fight, have not received any privilege, but have on the contrary known misery and persecution. It remains for me to thank you from the bottom of my heart and to make before you publicly, as a personal sign of my gratitude, the same and ancient promise of faithfulness which every true artist repeats to himself in silence every day. Albert Camus Excerpt: Nobel Prize for Literature Acceptance Speech 1957 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 11:13:55 -0500 Reply-To: pmetres@jcu.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Metres Subject: Voice of the Poet--Sylvia Plath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, does anyone have a table of contents for the tape called "The Voice of the Poet: Sylvia Plath"? I'm converting it to CD (can you believe that they produced this audiobook without a CD option just five years ago?!) I can't find the booklet and it's nowhere online. If you have it, could you let me know the contents? Gratitude in advance, P Philip Metres Assistant Professor Department of English John Carroll University 20700 N. Park Blvd University Heights, OH 44118 (216) 397-4528 (work) http://www.philipmetres.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 11:24:34 -0500 Reply-To: kevin thurston Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: The topic in a different light In-Reply-To: <20050208.040551.-95277.8.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit so, are you granting that these 'avant-garde poetics' have successfully accomplished this 'purely operational language'? or is this more your worry about a current (with)in these poetics? the idea of purity has always striked me as muddled. On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 03:49:50 -0500, Steve Dalachinksy wrote: > never quite managed care myself > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 11:31:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cassandra Laity Subject: Modernist Studies Association Conference--UPDATE Comments: To: hdsoc-l@listserv.uconn.edu, tse@lists.missouri.edu, h-amstdy@h-net.msu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MSA 7 - Chicago, IL, November 3-6, 2005: UPDATE: The Conference Website is now live at www.luc.edu/msachicago. It can also be accessed from the Modernist Studies Association Website (http://msa.press.jhu.edu/). CALL FOR SEMINAR, PANEL, and ROUNDTABLE PROPOSALS=20 Deadline for Submission of Seminar Topics: February 28, 2005=20 Deadline for Submission of Panel Proposals: May 9, 2005 Deadline for Submission of Roundtable Proposals: May 9, 2005 Please note:=20 * All who attend the MSA conference must be members of the organization with dues paid for 2005-6. (MSA membership runs from October to September.) * Because we wish to involve as many people as possible as active participants, MSA does not permit multiple appearances on the program. That is, one cannot give papers in two sessions, or be both a seminar leader and a panelist or roundtable participant. However, panelists, roundtable participants, and plenary speakers who also wish to participate in a seminar or a "What Are You Reading?" session may certainly do so. And of course one may chair a session and also appear elsewhere on the program. * MSA rules do not allow panel or roundtable organizers to chair their own session if they are also speaking in the session. Organizers are encouraged to identify a moderator and include this information with their proposals; the MSA Program Committee is also able to help you secure another conference attendee's service as moderator.=20 After the following calls for seminar leaders, panels, and roundtables, please see at the end of this message announcements for additional conference events. =20 1. CALL FOR SEMINAR PROPOSALS Deadline: Monday, February 28, 2005=20 Seminars are one the most significant features of the MSA conference. Seminars are two hours in length. Participants write brief "position papers" (5-7 pages) that are read and circulated prior to the conference. With no more than 15 participants, seminars generate lively exchange and sometimes produce networks of scholars who continue to work together beyond the conference. The format also allows most conference attendees to seek financial support from their institutions as they educate themselves and their colleagues on subjects of mutual interest. Please note that this is the call for seminar *leaders*. Sign-ups for seminar participants will take place on a first-come, first-served basis starting in mid-April. Seminar Topics There are no limits on topics, but past experience has shown that the more clearly defined the topic and the more guidance provided by the leader, the more productive the discussion. To scan past seminar topics, go to the "Conference Archives" on the MSA website (http://msa.press.jhu.edu/archive/archive.html), click the link to a prior conference, and then click on "Conference Schedule" or "Conference Program." You'll find seminars listed along with panels and other events.=20 Proposing a Seminar=20 Seminar proposals must be submitted via email and must include the following information. Please assist us by sending this information in exactly the order given here:=20 * Use as a subject line: MSA 7 SEMINAR PROPOSAL / [LAST NAME OF SEMINAR LEADER] (e.g., MSA SEMINAR PROPOSAL / GORMAN) * List the seminar leader's name, institutional affiliation, discipline, position or title, mailing address, phone, fax, and e-mail address=20 * Provide a brief curriculum vitae (including teaching experience) for the seminar leader=20 * Give a brief description (up to 100 words) of the proposed topic=20 Submit proposals by February 28 to:=20 Ann Mattis, Conference Assistant MSACHICAGO@LUC.EDU=20 Seminars will be selected in mid-March 2005. =20 Leading a Seminar=20 Seminar topics will be listed on the conference website in late March with instructions on how to enroll. Effective seminars have followed a variety of models, and seminar leaders will be given a menu of best practices derived from the experience of previous leaders. E-mail addresses for all seminar registrants will be provided to seminar leaders in May. At that time, leaders should:=20 * Initiate communications by e-mail, introducing themselves and providing addresses to all participants=20 * Set guidelines for the seminar, which might include questions to be addressed, reading to be done, and a specified length for the position papers (normally 5-7 double-spaced pages). MSA will provide guidance, but so long as the focus remains on the papers submitted by participants, leaders are free to use the two-hour time period as they see fit). * Set firm deadlines, no later than September 12, 2005 for the actual exchange of papers=20 * Exchange and read papers during the 7-8 weeks before the conference=20 =20 2. CALL FOR PANEL PROPOSALS=20 Deadline: Monday, May 9, 2005=20 There are no limits on topics, but please bear in mind these guidelines: * We encourage interdisciplinary panels and discourage panels on single authors.=20 * In order to encourage discussion, we prefer panels with three participants, though panels of four will be considered. * Panels composed entirely of participants from a single department at a single institution are not likely to be accepted.=20 * Graduate students are welcome as panelists. However, panels composed entirely of graduate students are less likely to be accepted than panels that include degreed presenters together with graduate students. Proposals for panels must be submitted via email and must include the following information. Please assist us by sending this information in exactly the order given here:=20 * Use as a subject line: MSA 7 PANEL PROPOSAL / [LAST NAME OF PANEL ORGANIZER] (e.g., MSA 7 PANEL PROPOSAL / GORMAN) * Session title=20 * Session organizer's name, institutional affiliation, discipline, position or title, mailing address, phone, fax, and e-mail address=20 * Chair's name, institutional affiliation, discipline, position or title, and contact information (if you do not identify a chair, we will locate one for you)=20 * Panelists' names, paper titles, institutional affiliations, disciplines, positions or titles, and contact information=20 * A maximum 500-word abstract of the panel as a whole=20 * Brief (2-3 sentence) scholarly biography of each panelist 3. CALL FOR ROUNDTABLE PROPOSALS Deadline: Monday, May 9, 2005=20 Unlike panels, which generally feature a sequence of 15-20 minutes talks followed by discussion, roundtables gather a group of participants around a shared concern in order to generate discussion among the roundtable participants and with the audience. To this end, instead of delivering full-length papers, participants typically deliver short position statements in response to questions distributed in advance by the organizer, or they take turns responding to prompts from the moderator. The bulk of the session should be devoted to discussion. No paper titles are listed in the program, only the names of participants. Other MSA roundtable policies:=20 * Roundtables may feature as many as 6 speakers * We particularly welcome roundtables featuring participants from multiple disciplines, and we discourage roundtables on single authors. * Panels composed entirely of participants from a single department at a single institution are not likely to be accepted.=20 * Graduate students are welcome as speakers. However, roundtables composed entirely of graduate students are less likely to be accepted than roundtables that include degreed presenters together with graduate students. Proposals for panels must be submitted via email and must include the following information. Please assist us by sending this information in exactly the order given here: =20 * Use as a subject line: MSA 7 ROUNDTABLE PROPOSAL / [LAST NAME OF ROUNDTABLE ORGANIZER] (e.g., MSA 7 ROUNDTABLE PROPOSAL / GORMAN) * Session title=20 * Session organizer's name, institutional affiliation, discipline, position or title, mailing address, phone, fax, and e-mail address=20 * Moderator's name, institutional affiliation, discipline, position or title, and contact information (if you do not identify a moderator, we will locate one for you)=20 * Speakers' names, institutional affiliations, disciplines, positions or titles, mailing addresses, phones, faxes, and e-mail addresses * A maximum 500-word rationale for the roundtable=20 * Brief (2-3 sentence) scholarly biography of each speaker Send proposals by May 9 to: Ann Mattis, Conference Assistant MSACHICAGO@LUC.EDU=20 Roundtables and Panels will be selected in mid-June. ADDITIONAL CONFERENCE EVENTS: "WHAT ARE YOU READING?" Last year in Vancouver, the MSA introduced a new kind of session, "What Are You Reading?" Designed to take advantage, in a productive new way, of the presence in one place of modernist scholars from many locations, institutions, and fields, each ninety-minute forum consisted of 8 to 10 participants and a moderator. Led by the moderator, each participant reported for a few minutes on a scholarly or critical book in modernist studies, sketching the work's content and explaining why she or he found it exciting to share with other scholars. Time permitting, moderators then led discussions in which participants could seek clarifications, draw connections, and propose further related reading. A major goal of "What Are You Reading?" is to facilitate the sharing of exciting new scholarship (or the "rediscovery" of older scholarship) and to foster interdisciplinarity by exposing participants to work in modernist fields other than their own. Open only to those who register for them in advance, these sessions were widely considered a success and will be repeated in Chicago. "What Are You Reading" is not intended as a venue for discussion of primary texts or works, for self-promotion, or for the enacting of intellectual conflicts. Participants will therefore be asked not to present on primary texts or works (though new editions and catalogues are welcome), their own publications, or scholarship they did not substantially admire. To participate, all you will need to do is check the appropriate box on your MSA registration form and name a book you might be interested in presenting. MSA registration will begin mid-April; look for announcements at that time. Please note that you will have to register by 5 September to be included in "What Are You Reading?" You will be notified of the time and location of your forum in early October. There is no need to submit any proposal or paper in connection with this event, nor do you need to contact your moderator in advance. Simply check the box, receive notice of your time and location, and show up ready to share a book! Given the uncertain supply of moderators, places are limited and will be distributed on a first-come, first-served basis. Cassandra Laity Associate Professor Co-Editor, _Modernism/Modernity_ Department of English Drew University Madison, NJ 07940 Phone: 973-408-3141 Fax: 973-408-3040 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 09:12:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Red Hen Press calls for submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Red Hen Press is currently accepting submissions for an anthology to be published by Red Hen Press and edited by Carolyn See and Kate Gale. The theme of the anthology will be "Writing From the Edges" and submissions should reflect life on the outer edges of Los Angeles. By writing about life on the edges of the city, we hope to come closer to a clearer sense of the city itself. Please direct all submissions to annie@redhen.org. Thank you. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 11:23:35 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Red Hen Press calls for submissions In-Reply-To: <000c01c50e01$596a1dd0$220110ac@CADALY> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is rural Wisconsin considered an outer edge of Los Angeles? On Feb 8, 2005, at 11:12 AM, Catherine Daly wrote: > Red Hen Press is currently accepting submissions for an anthology to be > published by Red Hen Press and edited by Carolyn See and Kate Gale. The > theme of the anthology will be "Writing From the Edges" and submissions > should reflect life on the outer edges of Los Angeles. By writing about > life on the edges of the city, we hope to come closer to a clearer > sense > of the city itself. > > > > Please direct all submissions to annie@redhen.org. Thank you. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 19:04:54 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: Red Hen Press calls for submissions In-Reply-To: <48c35e07e86db75987231e8c6fafc718@mwt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit if not of Los Angeles, then of New York, you'll have to decide I guess... On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 11:23:35 -0600, mIEKAL aND wrote: > Is rural Wisconsin considered an outer edge of Los Angeles? > > > On Feb 8, 2005, at 11:12 AM, Catherine Daly wrote: > > > Red Hen Press is currently accepting submissions for an anthology to be > > published by Red Hen Press and edited by Carolyn See and Kate Gale. The > > theme of the anthology will be "Writing From the Edges" and submissions > > should reflect life on the outer edges of Los Angeles. By writing about > > life on the edges of the city, we hope to come closer to a clearer > > sense > > of the city itself. > > > > > > > > Please direct all submissions to annie@redhen.org. Thank you. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 11:21:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: FW: [norcallitlist] Event listing for March 3, 2005 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please list the notice below in your events calendar that covers March 3, 2005. The event is part of a poetry reading series under the direction of Robert Hass. If you have any questions, I can be reached by phone at (510) 642-0137 or by e-mail at zrogow@berkeley.edu. To download a high resolution photo of the poet and text for use in your publication, please go to http://www.berkeley.edu/calendar/events/poems/photos/. Thank you. Zack Rogow The text to print follows: On March 3, 2005 at 12:10 p.m., UC Berkeley's Lunch Poems Reading Series will present Eugene Ostashevsky. Born in St. Petersburg, Russia but raised in New York City, Ostashevsky describes himself as a "reckless metaphysician." The reading will take place in the Morrison Library in Doe Library at UC Berkeley. Admission is free. For more information call (510) 642-0137 or check the Lunch Poems web page: http://lunchpoems.berkeley.edu -- Zack Rogow 3627 Tolman Hall University of California, Berkeley Berkeley CA 94720-1670 (510) 642-0137 fax: (510) 643-2006 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 17:21:45 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: eagleton on heaney MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII from the Terry Eagleton's diary at the New Statesman http://www.newstatesman.com/200501310003 It seems that I've been dropped as a book reviewer by the Irish Times for daring to criticise Seamus Heaney. He lent his bardic seal of approval to an unctuously self-congratulatory ceremony in Dublin some months ago, at which a handful of new members were triumphally admitted to the EU on second-class terms. The Phoenix Park was full of beaming, backslapping Irish political boyos; and army officers shouted orders in Irish, just to prove that the nation cherishes its unique identity at the very moment when it's busting a gut to look exactly like Switzerland. Meanwhile, the Gardai were beating up protesters outside. Irish writers haven't on the whole marched or spoken out on Iraq (they come to London for posh dinners, not demos), but they'll declaim poems celebrating a club that cripples the world's poor with its tariffs, because that's not political, you see. So I wrote a poem for the Irish Times's literary pages satirising this grisly event, which they published, I suspect, only because they hadn't a clue what it was about. Once the penny dropped, all review copies and telephone calls ceased instantly. This is a splendid thing. In the old Ireland, you were censored for criticising the Virgin Mary. Now it's Seamus Heaney. That's progress. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 16:26:28 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eileen Tabios Subject: CALL FOR 101 POETRY BOOKS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CALL FOR 101 POETRY BOOKS Dear Poet and/or Poetry Publisher, I am starting a new conceptual art project that addresses the notions of commercialism and ephemerality in/for poetry. For this project -- whose working title is "Commercial Poetry" -- I need donations of unsold poetry books. Specifically, 101 books each of any single title. Ideally, those titles should be of books that you feel have been/will be difficult to sell. If you think you can participate (and have questions), please feel free to contact me at Ertabios@aol.com Thanks for your time, Eileen Tabios P.S. Below are some links about my previous and ongoing works which may be relevant to this project: http://chatelaine-poet.blogspot.com http://marshhawkpress.org/tabios1.htm http://marshhawkpress.org/tabios2.htm http://www.oovrag.com/~oov/books/2004xpress.shtml http://www.oovrag.com/~oov/essays/essay2002c-1.shtml http://meritagepress.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 10:45:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: eagleton on heaney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original I have a book about literary criticism by Eagleton which is very good -in fact I must re read it as I learnt a lot from it - overall I find Heaney - while being a good poet in a kind of lumpy rustic and "bardic" way - and very talented - too traditional - a bit obvious and repetitive like Hughes - I can imagine that scenariao - of course its only via Eagleton - and the literary world is full of internal politics...(personal struggles are art of politcs albeit it is perhaps only one side of things) at said I suspect there is a lot of truth reflected there we are glimsping... Poets become "names" and/ or get Nobel Prizes and it goes to their heads and -in Ireland I would say almost national heroes (if they win a Nobel or whatever) (and write about half decayed swamp men) - the Irish are always desparate to claim people - I see Yeats and all sorts of Irish writers proudly on the walls of Irish pubs (and that tedious Irish music that they always play (its nearly as bad as jazz being played instead of Bach) - so repetitive - almost a cliche) that most people visiting the Irish pubs probably dont even know - or haven't read - even Joyce bedecks the walls (who reads Joyce in Ireland ??) (anywhere? - he's too hard) of these patriotic pubs - partriotism is all very good (say for example - the British being patriotic when there was danger they were to be or might be invaded in WW2 etc) but at its worst it can descend into madness as in the Bush admin and various fanatics in the world - in hot spots (Ireland to the Middle East -where its hard to tell who is who) - the main thing for a lot of the Bards would be "recognition" - forget about civilains being killed in Iraq or Israel or wherever...I have _my _Nobel rize - Pinter spoke out againt the fascist invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. He is British Jewish. The Irish use the excuse of having been invaded by Britain to turn a blind eye to anything Britain is doing or they imitate the British - the Sassenachs - Joyce satirises all this so well in The Dubliners etc Richard Taylor richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet / Chess Addict/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: ----------------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."------------------ Aspect Books (N.Z.) on www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Hehir" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 12:51 PM Subject: eagleton on heaney > from the Terry Eagleton's diary at the New Statesman > > http://www.newstatesman.com/200501310003 > > It seems that I've been dropped as a book reviewer by the Irish Times for > daring to criticise Seamus Heaney. He lent his bardic seal of approval to > an unctuously self-congratulatory ceremony in Dublin some months ago, at > which a handful of new members were triumphally admitted to the EU on > second-class terms. The Phoenix Park was full of beaming, backslapping > Irish political boyos; and army officers shouted orders in Irish, just to > prove that the nation cherishes its unique identity at the very moment > when it's busting a gut to look exactly like Switzerland. Meanwhile, the > Gardai were beating up protesters outside. Irish writers haven't on the > whole marched or spoken out on Iraq (they come to London for posh dinners, > not demos), but they'll declaim poems celebrating a club that cripples the > world's poor with its tariffs, because that's not political, you see. > > So I wrote a poem for the Irish Times's literary pages satirising this > grisly event, which they published, I suspect, only because they hadn't a > clue what it was about. Once the penny dropped, all review copies and > telephone calls ceased instantly. This is a splendid thing. In the old > Ireland, you were censored for criticising the Virgin Mary. Now it's > Seamus Heaney. That's progress. > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 17:23:05 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Benjamin Basan Subject: Re: eagleton on heaney In-Reply-To: <000801c50ed7$8582b360$f07d37d2@com747839ba04b> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Though Pinter's unintentionally become a blustery comic figure: http://www.haroldpinter.org/politics/god_bless_america.shtml http://plagiarist.com/poetry/?wid=540 He suspected a rat when they(the poems) were turned down by the Guardian. His 'poetry' was successfully parodied by Private Eye shortly thereafter. If only I could turn up the parodies... Not to say the British press would actually know interesting poetry, even if it were on page three. Ben On 2/9/05 12:45 PM, "Richard Taylor" wrote: ...I have > _my _Nobel rize - Pinter spoke out againt the fascist invasions of > Afghanistan and Iraq. He is British Jewish. > Richard Taylor > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 16:07:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: The topic in a different light In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.1.20050207112651.0439dbb0@pop.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii natural selection of physiological characteristics is a _relative_ given. it is indeed a theory, but not an established fact in the way that we can establish the fact of gravity. you cannot test evolution nor can you repeat the results of the test. part of the problem with the way science is taught and understood in this culture is clarity about exactly what it _can_ avail you. the scientific method is nearly absolutely silent on why things occur, other than it can say when this occurs, this too shall occur. it provides no surefooted means to enter into the black box of human motivation or thinking. thus neo-Darwinian hypotheses about human behavior have as much (or rather less) validity than psychoanalytic ones do. psychoanalysis begins with case studies and clinical observation, which are not exhaustive but are suggestive; while neo-Darwinian speculation on contemporary behavior begins either with animal research or with evidence from the fossil record; thus, it eithe r uses subjects which are even less representative than the post-adolescents of university psychological research or with behavior that was never observed by any living person. there is a futher irony to consider when dismissing Freudian and psychoanalytic explanations of behavior. Darwin himself began using the premises of the jejune social science of Malthus, itself merely an excuse to stigmatize English jacobin thinking--the first edition is almost half an attempted refutation of Malthus' mentor, William Godwin--and the poor in general, who naturally are the bearers of vice and disease, not to mention uncontrollable appetites. it is one thing to document physiological change in animals and its relation to adaption to environment. it is altogether another thing to explain, for instance, primogeniture by some genetic inevitability in men. finally, modern social psychology, which at least takes contemporary folks as its subjects is handicapped by its focus on rather limited and narrow questions, as well as its almost comic reliance on college students as a research group. myself, i prefer the rather old-fashioned literary and intutive approach represented by psychoanalysis, which is not so different in form from that which we have traditionally used to understand social behaviors: the novel. Brown, by the way, is merely a rather reductive and typically American (in the sense that ego psychology is a typically American rendering of Freud) rendering of a much more profound thinker, Georges Bataille. in his way, Bataille's thinking on energy's role in life is a much deeper and broader meditation on something that bears some resemblance to Freud's death instinct. Freud has not been forgotten, but rather his thinking has been absorbed and transformed. Mark Weiss wrote: There's a lot of huffiness on both sides whenever discussions of psychological theory come up, and I apologize for my own. But I'll stick with what I thought was my original point (I never said anything about the historical significance of Freud), however badly put: one can base an argument about any aspect of human behavior on a Freudian construct, but one cannot do so as if that construct was a scientific given, as evolution by natural selection is. Mark. At 10:43 AM 2/7/2005, you wrote: >I sincerely appreciate Mark Weiss' patient and considered responses to my >huffy statements. His original point, that I was responding to here, implied >that Freud's contributions are now considered insignificant, historically, >in psychology. This is incorrect. Also, the main reason that analytic >institutes and analysts in private practice don't get as many referrals at >they used to is managed care, not the ups and downs, in academia, and among >critics of the field, as to the significance of psychoanalysis. Managed care >proponents are well aware of the convictions of psychoanalysts about the >necessity, in some cases, of long term psychotherapy; they don't like it >because they want to save money for insurance companies. This is an >understandable conflict. I have also been inside the profession for a long >time, in fact, over 20 years. I, as well as others, have noted countless >successes, along with numerous failures, of all kinds of psychotherapy >treatment. By the way, this is true of any kind of treatment, from >cardiology to dermatology, so it's no reflection on Freud at all. He himself >was cautious, and says so in his published writings, as to the probable >successes of psychoanalytic treatment (see, "Psychoanalysis Terminable and >Interminable.") The significance of the unconscious, of the ego defenses, >and so many other contributions of psychoanalysis are very well recognized, >and were and are debated, as well. My point about Darwin was to illustrate >the fact that because something is contested, it doesn't mean it isn't >valid. Everyone now recognizes that psychoanalysis cannot be considered >"hard science." But it is, frankly, short sighted to attempt to obviate the >psychological and cultural contributions of Freud's ideas. The fact that >they are contested, that the debates remain alive, within and without the >profession, is a sign of life, not death. Like many types of poetry, >Freudian ideas continue to engender fierce and interesting debates, >loyalties and disavowals. What else is new? > >Nick P. > > >On 2/7/05 12:00 AM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > > > We apparently differ on this, which doesn't make my statement dismissably > > cool yet tiresomely incorrect. I speak, by the way, from having been inside > > the profession for many years and seen more than my share of diagnostic > > disasters by psychoanalysts. I in fact began as a Freudian. After a couple > > of years in the field I decided against analytic training--I attended the > > Ackerman Institute for Family Therapy instead, though I continued to treat > > individuals as well, in both long and short-term treatment. I mention this > > not to boast but to disabuse you of any assumption that I speak from > > ignorance. Note that the significance of Freudian slips, the very existence > > of the unconscious, and the neurotic foundation of war are hardly > > uncontested. And comparing questioning of Darwin, who is endlessly > > replicable by disinterested observers (there has even been observed > > speciation by means of natural selection) with questioning of Freud seems > > to me way off. > > > > I stand by my last sentence. Even in analytic training institutes it's > > becoming increasingly difficult to get analytic patients. > > > > None of which means that people who believe Freud's theories can't be good > > therapists. Experienced therapists tend to do similar things in the office, > > regardless of how they explain to themselves why they're doing them. Nor > > does it mean that Freud's work has no historical significance, and for some > > it remains a useful set of metaphors. > > > > Regardless, Norman O. Brown's application of psychoanalytic theory, which > > is where we started, is absurdly reductive. > > > > Mark ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 16:17:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Fw: [asle] FW: [RFP] The Aftermath of the U.S. Invasion of Iraq MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeri Pollock" To: "Teachers Against War" ; "NCTE-Talkies" ; "Asle-Cccc" ; "Asle" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 7:19 AM Subject: [asle] FW: [RFP] The Aftermath of the U.S. Invasion of Iraq > http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm--------------------------------------------------- > Report list problems to listmom@interversity.org > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 23:42:23 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: eagleton on heaney MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You mean that you "enjoyed" their parodies? L -----Original Message----- From: Benjamin Basan To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: 08 February 2005 23:23 Subject: Re: eagleton on heaney >His 'poetry' was successfully parodied by Private Eye shortly thereafter. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 19:48:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: poetics@buffalo.edu Comments: Originally-From: "steve potter" From: Poetics List Administration Subject: New Magazine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS THE WANDERING HERMIT REVIEW, a new, twice-yearly independent arts and literary journal, is looking for poetry and fiction, essays and reviews, comics and art. The Hermit will be a perfect bound, digest size journal of 120 - 150 pages. Poetry: Please send 3 - 5 poems at a time preferably pasted into the body of the e-mail. As Robert Duncan wrote, “every order of poetry finds itself, defines itself, in conflict with others.” We’d love to see that conflict take place within the covers of The Hermit. Send acrostics, alcaics, alphabet poems, aubades, ballads, blues poems, catalog poems, centos, cinquains, concrete poems, constraint-driven forms of your own invention, elegiacs, haiku, laments, lang po or oulipo inspired experiments, limericks, madrigals, odes, pantoums, projective verse, prose poems, rispettos, rondeaus, roundelays, sapphics, skeltonics, sestinas, sonnets, tanka, triolets, villanelles.... you get the idea. Fiction: For short shorties we’d prefer to see the text pasted into the body of the e-mail. Unlikely to publish anything beyond 20 pages. As with poetry, we’re open to a broad range of literary fiction. We’d like to see short stories, microfiction, fables, and novel excerpts that stand on their own. We’re interested in Social Realism, Surrealism, Magical Realism, Postmodern Meta-fiction, and the indefinable. Weird is good. So is funny. Send humor. Not interested in paint-by-numbers genre fiction but if; like Oakley Hall for the Western, Walter Mosley for Detective Fiction, Ursula LeGuin for Sci-Fi, you’re working within the constraints of the genre to say something serious and original about the human condition, by all means let us have a look. Essays & Reviews: Well-written, concise considerations of contemporary arts, literature and life with a preference for subjects outside the corporate mainstream and within the Pacific Northwest. DIY culture. Tell us about that brilliant musician we’re unlikely ever to see perform on television or hear on the radio, the small press book of the poet too weird and honest for academia, your neighbor who welds junk into phantasmagoric monsters in his garage. Comics & Art: Quality black & white drawings, photos & thoughtful, original comics. Please send submissions with a brief bio to: whrev@yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 02:12:52 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Cudmore Subject: Re: eagleton on heaney In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dammit, we've been through this already. Just because we might sympathise with Pinter's opinions doesn't make his 'poetry' poetry. > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Benjamin Basan > Sent: 08 February 2005 23:23 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: eagleton on heaney > > Though Pinter's unintentionally become a blustery comic figure: > http://www.haroldpinter.org/politics/god_bless_america.shtml > http://plagiarist.com/poetry/?wid=540 > > > He suspected a rat when they(the poems) were turned down by > the Guardian. > His 'poetry' was successfully parodied by Private Eye shortly > thereafter. If only I could turn up the parodies... Not to > say the British press would actually know interesting poetry, > even if it were on page three. > > Ben > > > On 2/9/05 12:45 PM, "Richard Taylor" wrote: > > ...I have > > _my _Nobel rize - Pinter spoke out againt the fascist invasions of > > Afghanistan and Iraq. He is British Jewish. > > Richard Taylor > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 20:25:05 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Koranic duels ease terror Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Interesting article... Click here to read this story online: http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0204/p01s04-wome.html Headline: Koranic duels ease terror Byline: James Brandon Contributor to The Christian Science Monitor Date: 02/04/2005 (SANAA, YEMEN)When Judge Hamoud al-Hitar announced that he and four other Islamic scholars would challenge Yemen's Al Qaeda prisoners to a theological contest, Western antiterrorism experts warned that this high-stakes gamble would end in disaster. Nervous as he faced five captured, yet defiant, Al Qaeda members in a Sanaa prison, Judge Hitar was inclined to agree. But banishing his doubts, the youthful cleric threw down the gauntlet, in the hope of bringing peace to his troubled homeland. "If you can convince us that your ideas are justified by the Koran, then we will join you in your struggle," Hitar told the militants. "But if we succeed in convincing you of our ideas, then you must agree to renounce violence." The prisoners eagerly agreed. Now, two years later, not only have those prisoners been released, but a relative peace reigns in Yemen. And the same Western experts who doubted this experiment are courting Hitar, eager to hear how his "theological dialogues" with captured Islamic militants have helped pacify this wild and mountainous country, previously seen by the US as a failed state, like Iraq and Afghanistan. "Since December 2002, when the first round of the dialogues ended, there have been no terrorist attacks here, even though many people thought that Yemen would become terror's capital," says Hitar, eyes glinting shrewdly from beneath his emerald-green turban. "Three hundred and sixty-four young men have been released after going through the dialogues and none of these have left Yemen to fight anywhere else." "Yemen's strategy has been unconventional certainly, but it has achieved results that we could never have hoped for," says one European diplomat, who did not want to be named. "Yemen has gone from being a potential enemy to becoming an indispensable ally in the war on terror." To be sure, the prisoner-release program is not solely responsible for the absence of attacks in Yemen. The government has undertaken a range of measures to combat terrorism from closing down extreme madrassahs, the Islamic schools sometimes accused of breeding hate, to deporting foreign militants. Eager to spread the news of his success, Hitar welcomes foreigners into his home, fussing over them and pouring endless cups of tea. But beyond the otherwise nondescript house, a sense of menace lurks. Two military jeeps are parked outside, and soldiers peer through the gathering dark at passing cars. The evening wind sweeps through the unpaved streets, lifting clouds of dust and whipping up men's jackets to expose belts hung with daggers, pistols, and mobile telephones. Seated amid stacks of Korans and religious texts, Hitar explains that his system is simple. He invites militants to use the Koran to justify attacks on innocent civilians and when they cannot, he shows them numerous passages commanding Muslims not to attack civilians, to respect other religions, and fight only in self-defense. For example, he quotes: "Whoever kills a soul, unless for a soul, or for corruption done in the land - it is as if he had slain all mankind entirely. And, whoever saves one, it is as if he had saved mankind entirely." He uses the passage to bolster his argument against bombing Western targets in Yemen - attacks he says defy the Koran. And, he says, the Koran says under no circumstances should women and children be killed. If, after weeks of debate, the prisoners renounce violence they are released and offered vocational training courses and help to find jobs. Hitar's belief that hardened militants trained by Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan could change their stripes was initially dismissed by US diplomats in Sanaa as dangerously naive, but the methods of the scholarly cleric have little in common with the other methods of fighting extremism. Instead of lecturing or threatening the battle-hardened militants, he listens to them. "An important part of the dialogue is mutual respect," says Hitar. "Along with acknowledging freedom of expression, intellect and opinion, you must listen and show interest in what the other party is saying." Only after winning the militants' trust does Hitar gradually begin to correct their beliefs. He says that most militants are ordinary people who have been led astray. Just as they were taught Al Qaeda's doctrines, he says, so too can they be taught more- moderate ideas. "If you study terrorism in the world, you will see that it has an intellectual theory behind it," says Hitar. "And any kind of intellectual idea can be defeated by intellect." The program's success surprised even Hitar. For years Yemen was synonymous with violent Islamic extremism. The ancestral homeland of Mr. bin Laden, it provided two-thirds of recruits for his Afghan camps, and was notorious for kidnappings of foreigners and the bombing of the American warship USS Cole in 2000 that killed 17 sailors. Resisting US pressure, Yemen declined to meet violence with violence. "It's only logical to tackle these people through their brains and heart," says Faris Sanabani, a former adviser to President Abdullah Saleh and editor-in-chief of the Yemen Observer, a weekly English-language newspaper. "If you beat these people up they become more stubborn. If you hit them, they will enjoy the pain and find something good in it - it is a part of their ideology. Instead, what we must do is erase what they have been taught and explain to them that terrorism will only harm Yemenis' jobs and prospects. Once they understand this they become fighters for freedom and democracy, and fighters for the true Islam," he says. Some freed militants were so transformed that they led the army to hidden weapons caches and offered the Yemeni security services advice on tackling Islamic militancy. A spectacular success came in 2002 when Abu Ali al Harithi, Al Qaeda's top commander in Yemen, was assassinated by a US air-strike following a tip-off from one of Hitar's reformed militants. Yet despite the apparent success in Yemen, some US diplomats have criticized it for apparently letting Islamic militants off the hook with little guarantee that they won't revert to their old ways once released from prison. Yemen, however, argues that holding and punishing all militants would create only further discontent, pointing out that the actual perpetrators of attacks have all been prosecuted, with the bombers of the USS Cole and the French oil tanker, the SS Limburg. All received death sentences. "Yemeni goals are long-term political aims whereas the American agenda focuses on short-term prosecution of military or law enforcement objectives," wrote Charles Schmitz, a specialist in Yemeni affairs, in 2004 report for the Jamestown Foundation, an influential US think tank. "These goals are not necessarily contradictory, with each government recognizing that compromises and accommodations must be made, but their ambiguities create tense moments." Some members of the Yemeni government also hanker for a more iron-fisted approach, and Yemen remains on high alert for further attacks. Fighter planes regularly swoop low over the ancient mud-brick city of Sanaa to send a clear message to any would-be militants. An additional cause of friction with the US is that while Yemen successfully discourages attacks within its borders on the grounds that tourism and trade will suffer, it has done little to tackle anti-Western sentiment or the corruption, poverty, and lack of opportunity that fuels Islamic militancy. "Yemen still faces serious challenges, but despite the odd hiccup, we sometimes have to admit that Yemenis know Yemen best," says the European diplomat. "And if their system works, who are we to complain?" As the relative success of Yemen's unusual approach becomes apparent, Hitar has been invited to speak to antiterrorism specialists at London's New Scotland Yard, as well as to French and German police, hoping to defuse growing militancy among Muslim immigrants. US diplomats have also approached the cleric to see if his methods can be applied in Iraq, says Hitar. "Before the dialogues began, there was only one way to fight terrorism, and that was through force," he says. "Now there is another way: dialogue." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 21:27:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: The topic in a different light In-Reply-To: <20050209000707.80205.qmail@web50405.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I wasn't talking about social or psychological darwinism. Biological evolution is observable. The old-fashioned literary and intuitive approach I hope isn't based on a prioris. Mark At 07:07 PM 2/8/2005, you wrote: >natural selection of physiological characteristics is a _relative_ >given. it is indeed a theory, but not an established fact in the way that >we can establish the fact of gravity. you cannot test evolution nor can >you repeat the results of the test. part of the problem with the way >science is taught and understood in this culture is clarity about exactly >what it _can_ avail you. the scientific method is nearly absolutely silent >on why things occur, other than it can say when this occurs, this too >shall occur. it provides no surefooted means to enter into the black box >of human motivation or thinking. thus neo-Darwinian hypotheses about >human behavior have as much (or rather less) validity than psychoanalytic >ones do. psychoanalysis begins with case studies and clinical >observation, which are not exhaustive but are suggestive; while >neo-Darwinian speculation on contemporary behavior begins either with >animal research or with evidence from the fossil record; thus, it either uses > subjects which are even less representative than the post-adolescents of > university psychological research or with behavior that was never > observed by any living person. > >there is a futher irony to consider when dismissing Freudian and >psychoanalytic explanations of behavior. Darwin himself began using the >premises of the jejune social science of Malthus, itself merely an excuse >to stigmatize English jacobin thinking--the first edition is almost half >an attempted refutation of Malthus' mentor, William Godwin--and the poor >in general, who naturally are the bearers of vice and disease, not to >mention uncontrollable appetites. it is one thing to document >physiological change in animals and its relation to adaption to >environment. it is altogether another thing to explain, for instance, >primogeniture by some genetic inevitability in men. finally, modern >social psychology, which at least takes contemporary folks as its subjects >is handicapped by its focus on rather limited and narrow questions, as >well as its almost comic reliance on college students as a research >group. myself, i prefer the rather old-fashioned literary and intutive >approach > represented by psychoanalysis, which is not so different in form from > that which we have traditionally used to understand social > behaviors: the novel. > >Brown, by the way, is merely a rather reductive and typically American (in >the sense that ego psychology is a typically American rendering of Freud) >rendering of a much more profound thinker, Georges Bataille. in his way, >Bataille's thinking on energy's role in life is a much deeper and broader >meditation on something that bears some resemblance to Freud's death >instinct. Freud has not been forgotten, but rather his thinking has been >absorbed and transformed. > > >Mark Weiss wrote: >There's a lot of huffiness on both sides whenever discussions of >psychological theory come up, and I apologize for my own. But I'll stick >with what I thought was my original point (I never said anything about the >historical significance of Freud), however badly put: one can base an >argument about any aspect of human behavior on a Freudian construct, but >one cannot do so as if that construct was a scientific given, as evolution >by natural selection is. > >Mark. > > >At 10:43 AM 2/7/2005, you wrote: > >I sincerely appreciate Mark Weiss' patient and considered responses to my > >huffy statements. His original point, that I was responding to here, implied > >that Freud's contributions are now considered insignificant, historically, > >in psychology. This is incorrect. Also, the main reason that analytic > >institutes and analysts in private practice don't get as many referrals at > >they used to is managed care, not the ups and downs, in academia, and among > >critics of the field, as to the significance of psychoanalysis. Managed care > >proponents are well aware of the convictions of psychoanalysts about the > >necessity, in some cases, of long term psychotherapy; they don't like it > >because they want to save money for insurance companies. This is an > >understandable conflict. I have also been inside the profession for a long > >time, in fact, over 20 years. I, as well as others, have noted countless > >successes, along with numerous failures, of all kinds of psychotherapy > >treatment. By the way, this is true of any kind of treatment, from > >cardiology to dermatology, so it's no reflection on Freud at all. He himself > >was cautious, and says so in his published writings, as to the probable > >successes of psychoanalytic treatment (see, "Psychoanalysis Terminable and > >Interminable.") The significance of the unconscious, of the ego defenses, > >and so many other contributions of psychoanalysis are very well recognized, > >and were and are debated, as well. My point about Darwin was to illustrate > >the fact that because something is contested, it doesn't mean it isn't > >valid. Everyone now recognizes that psychoanalysis cannot be considered > >"hard science." But it is, frankly, short sighted to attempt to obviate the > >psychological and cultural contributions of Freud's ideas. The fact that > >they are contested, that the debates remain alive, within and without the > >profession, is a sign of life, not death. Like many types of poetry, > >Freudian ideas continue to engender fierce and interesting debates, > >loyalties and disavowals. What else is new? > > > >Nick P. > > > > > >On 2/7/05 12:00 AM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > > > > > We apparently differ on this, which doesn't make my statement dismissably > > > cool yet tiresomely incorrect. I speak, by the way, from having been > inside > > > the profession for many years and seen more than my share of diagnostic > > > disasters by psychoanalysts. I in fact began as a Freudian. After a > couple > > > of years in the field I decided against analytic training--I attended the > > > Ackerman Institute for Family Therapy instead, though I continued to > treat > > > individuals as well, in both long and short-term treatment. I mention > this > > > not to boast but to disabuse you of any assumption that I speak from > > > ignorance. Note that the significance of Freudian slips, the very > existence > > > of the unconscious, and the neurotic foundation of war are hardly > > > uncontested. And comparing questioning of Darwin, who is endlessly > > > replicable by disinterested observers (there has even been observed > > > speciation by means of natural selection) with questioning of Freud seems > > > to me way off. > > > > > > I stand by my last sentence. Even in analytic training institutes it's > > > becoming increasingly difficult to get analytic patients. > > > > > > None of which means that people who believe Freud's theories can't be > good > > > therapists. Experienced therapists tend to do similar things in the > office, > > > regardless of how they explain to themselves why they're doing them. Nor > > > does it mean that Freud's work has no historical significance, and > for some > > > it remains a useful set of metaphors. > > > > > > Regardless, Norman O. Brown's application of psychoanalytic theory, which > > > is where we started, is absurdly reductive. > > > > > > Mark ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 21:53:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Re: The topic in a different light In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.1.20050208212445.0336f280@pop.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Since the discussion is still on the table, I stand by my point that the remark quoted below is not simply unclear, but is blatantly incorrect. Nick P. > >>>>> You should know, by the way, that outside of the increasingly small >> circle >>>>> of psychoanalysis Freud isn't taken very seriously by students of >>>> psychology. >>>>> >>>>> Mark >>>>> On 2/8/05 9:27 PM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > I wasn't talking about social or psychological darwinism. Biological > evolution is observable. > > The old-fashioned literary and intuitive approach I hope isn't based on a > prioris. > > Mark > > > At 07:07 PM 2/8/2005, you wrote: >> natural selection of physiological characteristics is a _relative_ >> given. it is indeed a theory, but not an established fact in the way that >> we can establish the fact of gravity. you cannot test evolution nor can >> you repeat the results of the test. part of the problem with the way >> science is taught and understood in this culture is clarity about exactly >> what it _can_ avail you. the scientific method is nearly absolutely silent >> on why things occur, other than it can say when this occurs, this too >> shall occur. it provides no surefooted means to enter into the black box >> of human motivation or thinking. thus neo-Darwinian hypotheses about >> human behavior have as much (or rather less) validity than psychoanalytic >> ones do. psychoanalysis begins with case studies and clinical >> observation, which are not exhaustive but are suggestive; while >> neo-Darwinian speculation on contemporary behavior begins either with >> animal research or with evidence from the fossil record; thus, it either uses >> subjects which are even less representative than the post-adolescents of >> university psychological research or with behavior that was never >> observed by any living person. >> >> there is a futher irony to consider when dismissing Freudian and >> psychoanalytic explanations of behavior. Darwin himself began using the >> premises of the jejune social science of Malthus, itself merely an excuse >> to stigmatize English jacobin thinking--the first edition is almost half >> an attempted refutation of Malthus' mentor, William Godwin--and the poor >> in general, who naturally are the bearers of vice and disease, not to >> mention uncontrollable appetites. it is one thing to document >> physiological change in animals and its relation to adaption to >> environment. it is altogether another thing to explain, for instance, >> primogeniture by some genetic inevitability in men. finally, modern >> social psychology, which at least takes contemporary folks as its subjects >> is handicapped by its focus on rather limited and narrow questions, as >> well as its almost comic reliance on college students as a research >> group. myself, i prefer the rather old-fashioned literary and intutive >> approach >> represented by psychoanalysis, which is not so different in form from >> that which we have traditionally used to understand social >> behaviors: the novel. >> >> Brown, by the way, is merely a rather reductive and typically American (in >> the sense that ego psychology is a typically American rendering of Freud) >> rendering of a much more profound thinker, Georges Bataille. in his way, >> Bataille's thinking on energy's role in life is a much deeper and broader >> meditation on something that bears some resemblance to Freud's death >> instinct. Freud has not been forgotten, but rather his thinking has been >> absorbed and transformed. >> >> >> Mark Weiss wrote: >> There's a lot of huffiness on both sides whenever discussions of >> psychological theory come up, and I apologize for my own. But I'll stick >> with what I thought was my original point (I never said anything about the >> historical significance of Freud), however badly put: one can base an >> argument about any aspect of human behavior on a Freudian construct, but >> one cannot do so as if that construct was a scientific given, as evolution >> by natural selection is. >> >> Mark. >> >> >> At 10:43 AM 2/7/2005, you wrote: >>> I sincerely appreciate Mark Weiss' patient and considered responses to my >>> huffy statements. His original point, that I was responding to here, implied >>> that Freud's contributions are now considered insignificant, historically, >>> in psychology. This is incorrect. Also, the main reason that analytic >>> institutes and analysts in private practice don't get as many referrals at >>> they used to is managed care, not the ups and downs, in academia, and among >>> critics of the field, as to the significance of psychoanalysis. Managed care >>> proponents are well aware of the convictions of psychoanalysts about the >>> necessity, in some cases, of long term psychotherapy; they don't like it >>> because they want to save money for insurance companies. This is an >>> understandable conflict. I have also been inside the profession for a long >>> time, in fact, over 20 years. I, as well as others, have noted countless >>> successes, along with numerous failures, of all kinds of psychotherapy >>> treatment. By the way, this is true of any kind of treatment, from >>> cardiology to dermatology, so it's no reflection on Freud at all. He himself >>> was cautious, and says so in his published writings, as to the probable >>> successes of psychoanalytic treatment (see, "Psychoanalysis Terminable and >>> Interminable.") The significance of the unconscious, of the ego defenses, >>> and so many other contributions of psychoanalysis are very well recognized, >>> and were and are debated, as well. My point about Darwin was to illustrate >>> the fact that because something is contested, it doesn't mean it isn't >>> valid. Everyone now recognizes that psychoanalysis cannot be considered >>> "hard science." But it is, frankly, short sighted to attempt to obviate the >>> psychological and cultural contributions of Freud's ideas. The fact that >>> they are contested, that the debates remain alive, within and without the >>> profession, is a sign of life, not death. Like many types of poetry, >>> Freudian ideas continue to engender fierce and interesting debates, >>> loyalties and disavowals. What else is new? >>> >>> Nick P. >>> >>> >>> On 2/7/05 12:00 AM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: >>> >>>> We apparently differ on this, which doesn't make my statement dismissably >>>> cool yet tiresomely incorrect. I speak, by the way, from having been >> inside >>>> the profession for many years and seen more than my share of diagnostic >>>> disasters by psychoanalysts. I in fact began as a Freudian. After a >> couple >>>> of years in the field I decided against analytic training--I attended the >>>> Ackerman Institute for Family Therapy instead, though I continued to >> treat >>>> individuals as well, in both long and short-term treatment. I mention >> this >>>> not to boast but to disabuse you of any assumption that I speak from >>>> ignorance. Note that the significance of Freudian slips, the very >> existence >>>> of the unconscious, and the neurotic foundation of war are hardly >>>> uncontested. And comparing questioning of Darwin, who is endlessly >>>> replicable by disinterested observers (there has even been observed >>>> speciation by means of natural selection) with questioning of Freud seems >>>> to me way off. >>>> >>>> I stand by my last sentence. Even in analytic training institutes it's >>>> becoming increasingly difficult to get analytic patients. >>>> >>>> None of which means that people who believe Freud's theories can't be >> good >>>> therapists. Experienced therapists tend to do similar things in the >> office, >>>> regardless of how they explain to themselves why they're doing them. Nor >>>> does it mean that Freud's work has no historical significance, and >> for some >>>> it remains a useful set of metaphors. >>>> >>>> Regardless, Norman O. Brown's application of psychoanalytic theory, which >>>> is where we started, is absurdly reductive. >>>> >>>> Mark ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 23:12:27 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Message from TALISMAN MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The special double issue of "Talisman: A Journal of Contemporary Poetry and Poetics" (#28-29; Winter 2005) is published this week. It includes important new works by Donna de la Perriere, Joseph Donahue, Kathleen Fraser, Forrest Gander, Michael Heller, John High, Robert Kelly, Timothy Liu, Nathaniel Mackey, Alice Notley, Maureen Owen, Simon Pettet, Leslie Scalapino, Leonard Schwartz, David Shapiro, Aaron Shurin, Eleni Sikelianos, Gustaf=A0 Sobin, Nathaniel Tarn, Lewis Warsh, and=A0 John Yau. Essays and reviews include Boris Pintar's preface to "Castration Machines"; Aram Saroyan's "From Russia, with Love"; Thomas Fink on Robert Creeley, Timothy Liu, and Sheila E. Murphy; Norman Fischer on Hank Lazar and Michael Rothenberg; Vernon Frazer on David Meltzer; Brian Henry on Graham Foust; Bruce Holsapple on Michael Rothenberg; Endres Kay on Brane Mozetic; Hank Lazar on John Taggart; Rusty Morrison on Christine Hume; Christopher Sawyer-Lau=E7anno on=A0 Gloria Gervitz; Maxine Warnock on Gian Lombardo; and Andrew Zawacki on Kate Fagan. Copies at $15 can be ordered through SPD or directly from the publisher, Talisman House, PO Box 3157, Jersey City, NJ 07303-3157. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 20:35:27 -0800 Reply-To: dbuuck@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Buuck Subject: Renee Gladman & David Buuck reading in NYC 2/12 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery @ Bleecker, right across from CBGB's F train to Second Ave | 6 train to Bleecker | 212-614-0505 Saturday, February 12 2005 4:00pm Segue: DAVID BUUCK and RENEE GLADMAN $5 David Buuck lives in Oakland, where he edits Tripwire, a journal of poetics. He is a contributing editor at Artweek and organizes BARGE, the Bay Area Research Group in Enviro-Aesthetics. Renee Gladman is the author of two works of prose: The Activist (Krupskaya 2003) and Juice (Kelsey St. 2000). Her first book of poems, A Picture-Feeling, will be published by Roof Books this spring. She lives in Lefferts Garden, where she produces the L Projects. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 01:07:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: "aijalon condemned trembling" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed "aijalon condemned trembling" aijalon condemned trembling spare bridegroom bounty sore twigs conflict afternoon shoco amends conception townclerk spoiler bulwarks boils solemn unni consider admonish shorn antipas complete to stammering called blemish soc uttered consume accuse shower arbah companions thunderings stink carmel billows smoking villages continually abilene shunned ascend commit thirteen strengthen centurions bethmarcaboth slothful wants converted ziz side asunder comfortably that subsequent charmer beri sleep weary copper zebedee silas azotus coffin temptation supposed cheweth belch sky wholesome corners yearned singed bands closed taunt syriadamascus cinnamon bedad sixth withstood corrupteth workman sitting bealoth clave taketh tares clifts baser sit writer cottages wisdom slanders behind churl sycamine tempt colours baladan sion zebadiah couldest whit slumbereth beryl children surfeiting thereat commonwealth azzan sink zorobabel council week soberly bewail cheeses suffice thresholds concealed attend single abstinence councils wastes somehow blast chargeable stump title confidently asnapper singeth adiel coulter wagging sour bondservice certified stretching trample consistency arrive singing again couches vexations spendest breaking cases stories troubled contention aramis sinite alienated cosam uzai springeth buffeted capernaum stilled unclothed convocations apelles sins amorites correct untaken station cainan cake statute untimely corrupteth amzi sisters aplvax cords understandest stomach carefully bunches staff valuest counteth aloud sixteenth arieh convinced turneth stretchedst censer brink spouses visiting coverings ahiram skull ashriel contradictory trespasses substance charran brandish spirit waste creation affectionately slaying attending contempt traffick supplied child bondwomen specific wellbeloved cripple addicted slips baaseiah conspired tohu sychem cities block spakest wilily crude accepting smoking barjesus cononiah tikvah tamar clouds bird sound wondering cumi abia socho bedan conferred thoughts telharsa commanded bethphelet sorely yell current zif solemnity belshazzar conceived thereof thanking complainers berites sons zenas curtains zara sores bethezel company terror thomas confesseth belaites solve abel cuthah writings spakest bird commandest telharesha tilleth consolations beckoning sole accomplished cycle wonderously spiced bnr cold tarriest torch contradiction bartholomew sojourners adonikam cypress wing spreading bowl clifts tahrea treasurers corners bakbukiah sojourn aharhel cymbals whether standard broiled cis sworn turtledove counteth aziel sojourn aloes cutteth weary stiffened busybody chisleu suspiciously unjust craftiness athenians sojourners anathoth custody washest straight canst chelal sundered urias crooked ashteroth soldiers appertained cursest voyage strivings causeway chapiter succeeded very cumulative army solution arodi cupbearer vesture such chargers ceiling stubbornness wake cutting approacheth songs assay cry uz sureties chide carmelitess stretcheth watmath damned answering sorek avoid croucheth untempered synagogue cities calvin strait whereby dash ammishaddai souls bag crescens undo talmon cluster buryingplace stonesquarers winnowed deaf allon spake basmath craft twelfth tekoites commending brothers stiffhearted worse debts ahaziah specific begettest courteous trimmed testimonies conceit breadth stealing zaanaim deceiving advantaged spirit beraiah couldest transgressions thinkest congregations booty starts zibeon declined activity spread betonim corn top thus contemptible bloody stalls abiezer deed absence staggereth blasphemeth conversant tinkling toil coral birsha stachys achbor defeat abba stayeth bondservice contain throwing transgression countervail bethpeor spun advanced defer zereth stinketh breath consecration thirteenth troubleth create berechiah sprinkle ahira defied zacchaeus straight bull confectionaries thence uncleanness cruelly beholdeth sprigs amalek defile wrestle stripe calneh completely terribleness unstable customs beauties spreading annas deferred wolves subscribed carvings commissions tellest vain dandled barkos spreadings apt defenced window sung chancellor college tasted violently deacon backsliding springs artificers deeply whereof swarms cherethites cliff talketh warfare deceits awoke spued asswage decrees weareth tabitha cinneroth cinnamon tables weasel deed astonished stablisheth azem decked was tarah clothing chiding swimmeth whithersoever dekar ashan stalled bamothbaal deceit voyage telharsa commendation chastened swaddling withheld demand arioch stars beams dear vexations tetrarch conceived chaldea suppliants wreathen deride appeased stealeth bel davem uzziah thin conscience case suggests zarah desires aniam stiffhearted bestir dara unworthy thrusteth continue canaanitess succour ziz destitute amber stonesquarers bigthan daily unity titus corrupt butler subjection abode detest alamoth straiten blossomed cursing ulai trading coveredst bruises studieth adadah devour ago stricken bounds cruse trucebreakers tributary cropped breakest striving affinity diana adorned ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 01:07:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Nikuko and Alan growth set MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Nikuko and Alan growth set Alan Alexandra Dillon Danyel Mingshu Rei Yiyue Dawn David Michael John Mark Chris Joel Eric Fintan Oisin Matt Laura Rhiwallon Flaald EUDON ADELA Ann Maggie Ada Thomas Frederick Kurt Jeff Tristan Dale Stephen Elsie Henry Anne Eva Lillian Dan Susan _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 06:20:20 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Evan Escent Subject: "Interim notes: fitting the Jacket" Comments: To: POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Interim notes: fitting the Jacket Jacket 26 is filling up nicely: some sixty extant pieces to date, with more to come, including two long interviews with / about Robert Duncan. The issue should be complete by late February 2005. Features: the citric-acid talent of neglected British poet Jacket Beeching; Robert Duncan; Landis Everson and his Kodachrome memories of Berkeley in the 1950s, tribute to Tom Raworth; and more. A highlight of Jacket 26: the vocals and Norwegian translation of ‘The Day Lady Died’ by Jan Erik Vold: text, MP3 and RealAudio tracks of the 1986 reading by Jan Erik Vold of ‘Den dagen Lady døde’, with Red Mitchell’s jazz accompaniment. http://jacketmagazine.com/26/index.html Jacket 27 under the editorial guidance of Pam Brown is beginning to emerge from its cocoon, item by item. Due to close late April 2005. These two issues move towards a cleaner page design using more CSS and less HTML tables, seen in some pages in Jacket 26 and all pages for Jacket 27 and future issues. Notes: I have three overseas trips planned for 2005, so if things fall off the table occasionally, please bear with us. Also, I had a computer crash a few months ago and lost a lot of pending email. If you think I may have mislaid an email of yours please send it again. Jacket reads new material in June, July and January: J for Jacket! best for 2005, John Tranter, Editor, Jacket magazine _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 22:13:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: eagleton on heaney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Ach!! - the Sassenaachs have bloudeey caustic tongues -the rogues!! Richard Taylor richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet / Chess Addict/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: ----------------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."------------------ Aspect Books (N.Z.) on www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Benjamin Basan" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 3:23 PM Subject: Re: eagleton on heaney > Though Pinter's unintentionally become a blustery comic figure: > http://www.haroldpinter.org/politics/god_bless_america.shtml > http://plagiarist.com/poetry/?wid=540 > > > He suspected a rat when they(the poems) were turned down by the Guardian. > His 'poetry' was successfully parodied by Private Eye shortly thereafter. > If > only I could turn up the parodies... Not to say the British press would > actually know interesting poetry, even if it were on page three. > > Ben > > > On 2/9/05 12:45 PM, "Richard Taylor" wrote: > > ...I have >> _my _Nobel rize - Pinter spoke out againt the fascist invasions of >> Afghanistan and Iraq. He is British Jewish. >> Richard Taylor >> > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 23:04:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: Message from TALISMAN Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Murat Et Al I only sub to one mag in NZ (BRIEF ) - not (ony) because I am in it !! Actually I have every copy since it was started by Alan Loney..and I wasn't published in it until a year or so ago - but I was looking to sub to one overseas mag - if i can afford (postage costs are te problem here in New Zealand) - I liked Fence (what I loved most were reading what all the contributors read - I am, a person who if i get abook I want to know everything possible about the author ( I read -and re-read the blurbs and keep looking at the author's picture and wondering about them, what they are doing now, how they died, how thery are living, if they were/are happy, etc etc - in fact I find it slows my reading I often get a few pages into a book and if i dont find reference that sends me to another book - I read up on the author - so I have a huge lot of unfinished books - read in fragments -lol) - incredible the range of things poeple are interested in - and some great poetry (in Fence) - but couldn't afford it anymore - I remember Talisman - recall reading some intereting stuff in that - and there are so many mags - even with "innovative" sytuff -of course you will recommend your mag but there is Nick Piombinos one - I would to get some ideas - Sulphur was good but maybe not quite - the journal of post modern poetics - I think is the one I enjoy when I see it - there are others - also there are obviously ones in Britain , Australia, Canada etc Maybe I will just have to look at them online - something about getting something in the mail -like getting a present.. [Thinking of Britain - Lawrence (Pinter is a great playwrite and courageous in his opinions) - I haven't forgotten you - I still intend to buy at least one of your books (will google etc) - I _do_ buy books eg i bought nick piombinos book from the US and some lit crit things - also poeple remember I am ASPECT BOOKS on www.abebooks.com - but only a small fish - gradually getting some interesting stock I dont want! Also have a lot of stuff unprocessed as yet...] What are the "cutting edge" mags in the US, Canada, Aussie etc - or is only neccesary to read Alan Sondhiem and Steve etc? and Ron Siliman's Blog etc? (jiving) ?? Dont just push _your mag _ although of course _your_ mag (whoever you are) - could well be "just the ticket" yours interestedly and madly - The Mad Kiwi - aka Richard Taylor richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet / Chess Addict/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: ----------------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."------------------ Aspect Books (N.Z.) on www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 8:12 PM Subject: Message from TALISMAN The special double issue of "Talisman: A Journal of Contemporary Poetry and Poetics" (#28-29; Winter 2005) is published this week. It includes important new works by Donna de la Perriere, Joseph Donahue, Kathleen Fraser, Forrest Gander, Michael Heller, John High, Robert Kelly, Timothy Liu, Nathaniel Mackey, Alice Notley, Maureen Owen, Simon Pettet, Leslie Scalapino, Leonard Schwartz, David Shapiro, Aaron Shurin, Eleni Sikelianos, Gustaf Sobin, Nathaniel Tarn, Lewis Warsh, and John Yau. Essays and reviews include Boris Pintar's preface to "Castration Machines"; Aram Saroyan's "From Russia, with Love"; Thomas Fink on Robert Creeley, Timothy Liu, and Sheila E. Murphy; Norman Fischer on Hank Lazar and Michael Rothenberg; Vernon Frazer on David Meltzer; Brian Henry on Graham Foust; Bruce Holsapple on Michael Rothenberg; Endres Kay on Brane Mozetic; Hank Lazar on John Taggart; Rusty Morrison on Christine Hume; Christopher Sawyer-Lauçanno on Gloria Gervitz; Maxine Warnock on Gian Lombardo; and Andrew Zawacki on Kate Fagan. Copies at $15 can be ordered through SPD or directly from the publisher, Talisman House, PO Box 3157, Jersey City, NJ 07303-3157. -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 09:30:58 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: conversation with Ron Silliman on WOUNDWOOD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit conversation with Ron Silliman on WOUNDWOOD on PhillySound _http://phillysound.blogspot.com_ (http://phillysound.blogspot.com) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 09:48:18 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Re: [_arc.hive_] from GRANDUNCLES OF THE CATTLETRADE In-Reply-To: <0C09BBCC-798B-11D9-ADA6-0003935A5BDA@mwt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Thanks for the reading! Loved it -- reminded me of HP Lovecraft's insectoid aliens! Best, Jeff ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 08:02:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: INFO: african hip hop websites MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>INFO: african hip hop websites =============================== Hello Brother Kalamu, I was given your contact information by Delia Cleveland. I am a hip hop artist from East Africa, Tanzania. I perform my lyrics in Swahili which is my mother tongue. I am currently residing, studying and working at NYU and also performing in the US. I have been in the US for a little over 2years. I understand that you have a listserve, I would appreciate if you could help spread the word for me about my music and East African Hip hop. One of my main mission in hip hop is to raise the level of awarness in the US of how much hip hop has progressed in the past 15years. It has become a part of everyday life in africa. It is more than just getting the material benefits of its fruits or putting food on the table. It is a blessing to us because it helps educate our youths and gives our people a sense of identity. I have spoken at a number of Universities Jay Jay, Syracus and at the New York Public Library in Harlem, African Museum in Queens. I beleive there is a lot we have to share in common with brothers and sisters in the US. In terms of how hip hop can be used effectively as a medium of infromation and education. You will be amazed as to how much hip hop has evolved in Tanzania and Africa. If it wasn't for Hip Hop in the US there will not be any hip hop in africa or any where in the world. check out this sites for more details: www.africanhiphop.com www.mzibo.net www.kwetuentertainment.com (my website) www.darhotwire.com Please see my BIo for more details. Balozi Dola's BIO: Balozi Dola (Ahmed Dola) is a hip hop artist from Tanzania. My music is socially conscious, focusing on the political and social economic situation of young people and artists in Tanzania. I have released two albums, "Balozi Wenu" (Your Ambassador) in 2000 and "Ubalozini" (The Embassy of hip hop) in 2002. I recently performed at the International Hip Hop Film Festival (H20 Awards) in New York. Other performances include the Festival Mundial in Holland and Belgium in 2001, the Zanzibar International Film Festival in 2000, venues all across Tanzania, several clubs in New York City (Five Spots, Knitting Factory, Bowery Poetry club, African Museum at Queens, Bronx Museum) and the Club, Capital in Washington D.C, Boston, Maryland. I have two video clips to my credit for his hit singles, Kwenye Chati (which went to the top of the chart in Tanzania) and Nani na Nani (which was number 2). A song that he performed with another Tanzanian rap artist, Mr. II, went to the top of the chart in Holland (Q 97 FM). In addition, Balozi Dola worked with a group of eight teenagers in Tanzania to do a song discussing issues of impoverishment in Tanzania for the Tanzania Participatory Poverty Eradication Project. I formerly performed with a group, The Deplowmatz, who released an album self titled in 1997 and were awarded the best rap group in Tanzania in 1999. Thanks, Balozi Dola ############################################# this is e-drum, a listserv providing information of interests to black writers and diverse supporters worldwide. e-drum is moderated by kalamu ya salaam (kalamu@aol.com). ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^^--------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 08:03:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Betsy Andrews Subject: suggestions for citing sources in poetry manuscript MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hey. I've got a hefty manuscript full of cribbed text, facts, flotsam, jetsam, actual quotes in actual quotation marks. I'd like to cite sources and am undecided on how to do that. I'd appreciate any help/ideas/suggestions on citing the sources at the back of the book. Can anyone point me to some good models in other poetry books where someone did something cool and creative? thanks. you can back-channel, but since others might benefit from the discussion, maybe you don't want to. BETSY "The world is full of paper. Write to me." --Agha Shahid Ali __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 10:13:12 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: also from GRANDUNCLES OF THE CATTLETRADE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed weold by clinquant for spoon in moon has hands clinquant for spoon in moon has hands by might spoon in moon has hands by might for bands moon has hands by might for bands in sight hands by might for bands in sight has light might for bands in sight has light by look bands in sight has light by look for height sight has light by look for height in book light by look for height in book has hook look for height in book has hook by miss height in book has hook by miss for crook book has hook by miss for crook in kiss hook by miss for crook in kiss has hiss miss for crook in kiss has hiss by way crook in kiss has hiss by way for this kiss has hiss by way for this in astray hiss by way for this in astray has ray way for this in astray has ray by cast this in astray has ray by cast for dismay astray has ray by cast for dismay in mast ray by cast for dismay in mast has past cast for dismay in mast has past by gold dismay in mast has past by gold for last mast has past by gold for last in told past by gold for last in told has bold gold for last in told has bold by snare last in told has bold by snare for hold told has bold by snare for hold in pair bold by snare for hold in pair has glare snare for hold in pair has glare by dresses hold in pair has glare by dresses for fair pair has glare by dresses for fair in tresses... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 08:23:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: suggestions for citing sources in poetry manuscript In-Reply-To: <20050209160341.74935.qmail@web52902.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Check the way Carole Maso does her citations at the end of AVA. She does it by page number; the other way is the way Lyn Hejinian does it at the end of A Border Comedy which is by chapter. Susan Howe's The Birth Mark is a book that mixes Howe's signature prose style with properly cited academic sources so it may be worth a look just to see how she uses footnotes vs endnotes etc. If you want to do something more actually visual with footnotes (where the footnotes compete with text for centrality) then I bet there are dozens of other books to look at. Good luck. --- Betsy Andrews wrote: > Hey. > > I've got a hefty manuscript full of cribbed text, > facts, flotsam, jetsam, actual quotes in actual > quotation marks. I'd like to cite sources and am > undecided on how to do that. > > I'd appreciate any help/ideas/suggestions on citing > the sources at the back of the book. Can anyone > point me to some good models in other poetry books > where someone did something cool and creative? > > thanks. you can back-channel, but since others > might benefit from the discussion, maybe you don't > want to. BETSY > > > "The world is full of paper. Write to me." > --Agha Shahid Ali > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 10:40:36 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Platt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A woman learns British schoolboys vex two women and a travel writer who takes up and drives downtown with three different guys and an English boy who snoops with a Manhattan yuppie led by a Jewish boy reaching insiders telling why kids seek dad and a mime falling in love with a bulldog who tries to run coed parties with three losers waiting as an FBI agent infiltrates archeology students discovering an Aztec hit man an 1800's naturalist and a time traveling woman who tries to alter an ugly gangster and a shared detail threatening a paroled con man whose quarterback and coach clash with a teen and her mother's scientists who find an underground security expert and a dry British butler who helps doctors cut a New York restaurateur half his age while children of ex-vaudvillians put a Manhattan career woman with a live-in Briton unwittingly sharing former police partners to make a top major league pitcher into several young people seeking hunters preoccupying working class pals for an L.A. nurse and a teenage prankster aghast at brutal robbers interrupting homosexual German lovers sent to idiot collegians bumbling into a politician's uncouth brother vs. formless slime which a retired lawman tracks to an undercover U.S. marshal who probes a socialite luring a chump and a couple to accidentally set fire after novelist-sister makes longtime friends wonder if three boys become men guided by Frenchwoman who uses bribery schemes and champion cheerleaders against the son of an honest driver looking up two GI's returning from San Francisco to rob three dads after Santa Claus asks a Chicago newsman how to attract a lawyer an ex-model and a songwriter to back a drug-enforcement agent to raid farms of a tropical isle while an Irish rogue moves in on a victim's wife whose boy hunts monsters under students at a dance so that potheads will come when a cavalry captain is ordered to stop a salesman's case that a TV reporter and her cameraman cover up with eccentric spinsters and their self-abused boy reliving day after day dilemmas for execs downsizing Nebraska ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 13:13:40 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: @: REMINDER: Workshop proposals for the Montreal Anarchist Bookfair due this February 15, 2005!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII this may interest, ::::: A final reminder: You have just one week to get in your proposal for workshops and presentations at this year's Montreal Anarchist Bookfair (May 21) as well as the full day of Anarchist Workshops and Presentations (May 22). We have an early deadline this year so that we can properly promote the actual content of the bookfair. Anarchists!: Get organized and send us your proposals! More info below. ::::: --> CALLOUT for workshops and presentations at Montreal's Anarchist Bookfair (May 21, 2005) and Day of Workshops (May 22, 2005) <-- ** Deadline for proposals is February 15, 2005! ** The Montreal Anarchist Bookfair collective is currently planning the next Anarchist Bookfair (our sixth in a row!). This year's bookfair will take place on Saturday, May 21, 2005, to be followed on Sunday, May 22, 2005 by a full day of anarchist-themed presentations, panels, debates and workshops. We will return to the same venue as last year: The CEDA Adult Education Center at 2515 Delisle (near Lionel Groulx metro) in the Little Burgundy neighborhood, just west of downtown Montreal. Last year, the bookfair collective received more than forty workshop proposals, of which we could only accept twenty-one (due to space limitations). We invite you to send your proposals again this year, keeping in mind the following guidelines: * Proposals for the Day of Workshops (Sunday) should address an anarchist-themed topic in some depth, and should be intended for people who are already familiar with anarchism, or might identify as anarchists. The collective will accept between 10 to 15 workshops. * Workshop proposals for the bookfair day (Saturday) should be introductory workshops to anarchism, or an aspect of anarchism, and should be aimed at people who are curious about, or new to, anarchist ideas. These workshops should be accessible to non-anarchists. The collective will accept 6 introductory workshops. * Workshops can be proposed to take place in French, English or another language, but the bookfair collective will ensure that at least half of all workshops are in French-only. The bookfair collective will organize whisper translation into English and French for all workshops. * The bookfair collective will strive to have at least one-half of all workshops presented by people who identify as women. * The bookfair collective especially encourages workshop proposals by individuals who identify as women, indigenous, people of colour, working class, poor, people with disabilities, trans and/or queer. * Please consult the bookfair principles, which guide the organizing of the bookfair as an event, including workshop selection. The principles are available at: http://anarchistbookfair.taktic.org/principles.html * We have also included below the workshops that have been accepted in the previous three years. We indicate these topics to provide individuals proposing workshops with an idea of the kinds of workshops that have been accepted in the past (and might be accepted again) and to indicate the workshop topics that have yet to be proposed for consideration by the collective. --> IF YOU ARE MAKING A WORKSHOP PROPOSAL, please do the following: * Submit your proposal in writing, either in French or English, by e-mail or by post (contact information below). The strict deadline for proposals is February 15, 2005. * Provide a title for your workshop. Please choose a title that is self-explanatory. * Please provide a short (one to two paragraphs) description of your workshop. * Please provide a one-line description of the individual or group presenting the workshop. If you are proposing a panel, please provide a one-line biography for each participant. * Please provide a longer description -- as long as you need -- to describe your proposal. This longer description will be read by the bookfair collective to help us decide which proposals to accept. * Please indicate any audio-visual or space needs in your proposal. * Please indicate if your attendance is contingent on funding. Our funding is very limited, but in the past, on rare occasions, we have considered funding out-of-town speakers, in certain cases. * Please provide a contact e-mail AND phone number. Keep in mind that your title, short workshop description and one-line biography will be used for publicity purposes if your workshop is chosen, so please provide clear and explanatory descriptions. Keep in mind too that workshops can be no longer than 1 hour and 50 minutes. The DEADLINE for all workshop proposals is: February 15, 2005 (no exceptions). --> Proposals should be sent by e-mail to: anarchistbookfair@taktic.org. --> Alternatively, proposals can be mailed to: Montreal Anarchist Bookfair 2033, St-Laurent Boulevard Montreal, Quebec H2X 2T3 CANADUH (mailed proposals must be post-marked by February 15, 2005 or before). Previous Workshop and Presentation Topics (2002-2004): 2002 - The ABCs of Anarchism - Demystifying Anarchy and Anarchism - Introduction to Anarcho-communism - Introduction to Anarchism - Eco/Green Anarchism - Class Struggle Today - An Anarchist Perspective on the Cityscape as Resistance - Anarchism, National Liberation (sic), Anti-colonialism and Identity - Mexican Rebellion - Anarchism or Direct Democracy? - Queer Anarchism - Sustaining Urban Anarchist Spaces: Why is it so fucking so hard? - The Personal is the Political ... Even Among Activists! - Anti-colonial Organizing from an Indigenous Perspective - Anarchy, War and Globalization - Panel: The Housing Crisis in Montreal - Legal Self-defence 2003 - Introduction to Anarcho-communism - The History of Anarchism in Quebec - The Anarchist Tradition - Introduction to Anarchism and the Anarchist Federation of France - Anarchism in Mexico - The Anarchist 80s - Prisons, Prisoners and Class War - An Anarchist Analysis of the Black Panther Party (BPP) and its Practical Implications for Today; - No One is Illegal: Confronting War, Capitalism and Apartheid - Anti-fascism and Anti-nationalism - Popular Education as Liberatory Pedagogy - Anarchy and Technology - Self-management: From Ideal to Practice - Transfolk and Anarchist Community - Destroying the Heterosexist Empire: History, Resistance and Anti-Patriarchy - Guerilla Communications - Revolutionary Theatre, Culture Jamming and Theatrical Activism - Slide Presentation: Art and Politics Mix Beautifully - Building Your Own Radio Station: FM Transmitter Building; - Anarchist Ideals in Practice: Two Examples - Panel: Anti-authoritarians Participating in Grassroots Social Struggles 2004 - The History of Anarchism in Quebec - An Introduction to Anarchism and its Aspirations - Introduction to the History of Anarchists in Revolutions - Demanding the Impossible: The Theory, Practice and Relevance of Anarchism - Anarchism and De-schooling: Getting Society out of School - Earth and Freedom: The Eco-Anarchist Perspective - Affinity Groups: A Method of Anarchist Action - Daniel Guerin: A Century of Struggle - Panel: Solidarity Across Borders: Autonomous Organizing against Canadian Apartheid - Anarcho-Surrealism in Canada - Anarchism and Traditional Iroquois Culture - The Anarchist Press in Quebec (1976-2001) - Bringing Down the Prison Industrial Complex - Anarchists Radicalizing Their Workplace - Anarchy in Practice: Confronting Borders, States and Apartheid - (Anti-)Capitalist Globalization - Anarchist Workers' Cooperatives And Revolutionary Propaganda - Panel: Anarchists in the Social Movements Against Charest - Anarchist People of Colour Discussion and Strategy Workshop - Security Culture 101 - Self-determination versus the Nation-state ----- End forwarded message ----- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 11:53:56 -0500 Reply-To: rumblek@bellsouth.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Rumble Subject: Lucifer Poetics Group at La Tazza February 11 -- Philadelphia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Spread far and wide.... Please join us for an exciting reading at La Tazza on Saturday, February 12th at 7:45 pm. The Lucifer Poetics Group, a NC-based affiliation of artists, will be reading their poems at La Tazza on Chestnut Street. La Tazza is located at 108 Chestnut Street just South of the Ben Franklin Bridge. The Lucifer Poetics Group is a loose affiliation of poets who mostly reside in and around North Carolina. The list of readers: Marcus Slease is a native of Portadown, N. Ireland but is currently a resident alien. http://marcusslease.blogspot.com Todd Sandvik lives and writes in Carrboro, NC. He would like you to publish his work and/or buy him a drink. Chris Vitiello lives in Durham, NC. He has just finished a manuscript entitled Irresponsibility, and his Nouns Swarm A Verb was published by Xurban in 1999. http://the_delay.blogspot.com/ Tony Tost is the author of Invisible Bride. A chapbook, World Jelly, is forthcoming from Effing Press this year. Brian Howe is a freelance music critic and poet from Carrboro, NC. He contributes regularly to Pitchforkmedia.com and Paste Magazine, and his poems have appeared in Eratio and Pedestal. He is currently reading all the Brian Evenson he can get his hands on, and trying to devise new ways to make machines write poems for him. Ken Rumble is the director of the Desert City Poetry Series and list administrator for the Lucifer Poetics Group. His poems have been published or are forthcoming in NoTell Motel, Effing Magazine, Sidereality, Drunken Boat, Word For/Word, Parakeet, and VeRT among others. Tessa Joseph is a displaced Yankee and doctoral candidate at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, where she is writing her dissertation on group formation and the American poetic avant-garde. She received her MFA from Cornell University in 1998. Her poems and reviews have appeared in Sulfur, the Seneca Review, the Carolina Quarterly, Thel, and other journals. She edits the literary magazine the Carolina Quarterly. Randall Williams is a poet, freelance journalist, film maker, and social activist; an essay on poetics can be found in issue 7 of Word For/Word. E. V. Noechel is the author of _Museum Mundane_ and _A Murder of Crows_. We hope to see you there and for all festivities afterwards. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 08:55:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Brianq Whitener Subject: mark weiss/junction press email? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Does anyone have an email or contact info for Mark Weiss or Junction Press? Thanks, Brian xwhitener@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 16:16:23 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: suggestions for citing sources in poetry manuscript MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You might look at Allen Fisher. His ENTANGLEMENT from The Gig in Toronto Further back, if you have access to them, Eric Mottram's books L -----Original Message----- From: Betsy Andrews To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: 09 February 2005 16:03 Subject: suggestions for citing sources in poetry manuscript >Hey. > >I've got a hefty manuscript full of cribbed text, facts, flotsam, jetsam, actual quotes in actual quotation marks. I'd like to cite sources and am undecided on how to do that. > >I'd appreciate any help/ideas/suggestions on citing the sources at the back of the book. Can anyone point me to some good models in other poetry books where someone did something cool and creative? > >thanks. you can back-channel, but since others might benefit from the discussion, maybe you don't want to. BETSY > > >"The world is full of paper. Write to me." >--Agha Shahid Ali >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 13:30:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Leland Winks Subject: Re: suggestions for citing sources in poetry manuscript MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Also John Clarke's work. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence Upton Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2005 11:16 am Subject: Re: suggestions for citing sources in poetry manuscript > You might look at Allen Fisher. > > His ENTANGLEMENT from The Gig in Toronto > > Further back, if you have access to them, Eric Mottram's books > > L > > -----Original Message----- > From: Betsy Andrews > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: 09 February 2005 16:03 > Subject: suggestions for citing sources in poetry manuscript > > > >Hey. > > > >I've got a hefty manuscript full of cribbed text, facts, flotsam, > jetsam,actual quotes in actual quotation marks. I'd like to cite > sources and am > undecided on how to do that. > > > >I'd appreciate any help/ideas/suggestions on citing the sources > at the back > of the book. Can anyone point me to some good models in other > poetry books > where someone did something cool and creative? > > > >thanks. you can back-channel, but since others might benefit > from the > discussion, maybe you don't want to. BETSY > > > > > >"The world is full of paper. Write to me." > >--Agha Shahid Ali > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > >http://mail.yahoo.com > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 13:35:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: suggestions for citing sources in poetry manuscript MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul Metcalf's various works as well... Gerald Schwartz > You might look at Allen Fisher. > > His ENTANGLEMENT from The Gig in Toronto > > Further back, if you have access to them, Eric Mottram's books > > L > > -----Original Message----- > From: Betsy Andrews > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: 09 February 2005 16:03 > Subject: suggestions for citing sources in poetry manuscript > > >>Hey. >> >>I've got a hefty manuscript full of cribbed text, facts, flotsam, jetsam, > actual quotes in actual quotation marks. I'd like to cite sources and am > undecided on how to do that. >> >>I'd appreciate any help/ideas/suggestions on citing the sources at the >>back > of the book. Can anyone point me to some good models in other poetry > books > where someone did something cool and creative? >> >>thanks. you can back-channel, but since others might benefit from the > discussion, maybe you don't want to. BETSY >> >> >>"The world is full of paper. Write to me." >>--Agha Shahid Ali >>__________________________________________________ >>Do You Yahoo!? >>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >>http://mail.yahoo.com >> > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 12:08:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: The topic in a different light In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.1.20050208212445.0336f280@pop.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mark, Such reasoning, of course, is based on presumptions, but a presumption is not an a priori. An a priori is a foundationational premise, such as the belief in the scientific method or the assumption of Aristotelian logic. This is not the same thing as holding the presumption that men and women do not differ discernibly in either ability or mode of intelligence. The latter is a starting point, while an a priori is the end of a discussion. It seems certain bio-behavioral scientists (I myself would not call these researchers "psychologists") begin with the a priori assumption that men and women differ essentially in terms of mode and ability of intelligence. Freud wrote his work on interpeting dreams with the presumption that they spoke intelligibly about psychic conditions, conditions which he catalogued based upon physical manifestations (hysteria, tics, obsessive compulsive behaviors). The science of his time said simply that were just in the subject's mind and its positivism wrote them off as mere phantasy. The new positivism wants to write them off as mere problems with a subject's synapses or adrenal glands, the better to be cured with medications. It won't accede to fine discrimination that Freud made between neuroses with external causes--death of a loved one, difficulty at work--and neuroses with internal causes (thru the subject's fantasy). It cannot even consider that the subject's fantasy is itself an embodiment, even though it is patently evident that we are neither mind nor body but some muddled mixture. Such mixtures cannot be measured and therefore must not exist. Our century remains positivist, however dead the verificationist principle is and the question for a language which is absolutely logical. Thus, it is more than necessary to remember thinkers such as Freud, and before him Nietzsche and Hegel (not Marx, who unfortunately himself is some sort of postivist), and more particularly to remember that we have always come to know things through mixed and messy ways, not simply the Ready and Easy Way of puritanism and science. Robert Mark Weiss wrote: I wasn't talking about social or psychological darwinism. Biological evolution is observable. The old-fashioned literary and intuitive approach I hope isn't based on a prioris. Mark At 07:07 PM 2/8/2005, you wrote: >natural selection of physiological characteristics is a _relative_ >given. it is indeed a theory, but not an established fact in the way that >we can establish the fact of gravity. you cannot test evolution nor can >you repeat the results of the test. part of the problem with the way >science is taught and understood in this culture is clarity about exactly >what it _can_ avail you. the scientific method is nearly absolutely silent >on why things occur, other than it can say when this occurs, this too >shall occur. it provides no surefooted means to enter into the black box >of human motivation or thinking. thus neo-Darwinian hypotheses about >human behavior have as much (or rather less) validity than psychoanalytic >ones do. psychoanalysis begins with case studies and clinical >observation, which are not exhaustive but are suggestive; while >neo-Darwinian speculation on contemporary behavior begins either with >animal research or with evidence from the fossil record; thus, it either uses > subjects which are even less representative than the post-adolescents of > university psychological research or with behavior that was never > observed by any living person. > >there is a futher irony to consider when dismissing Freudian and >psychoanalytic explanations of behavior. Darwin himself began using the >premises of the jejune social science of Malthus, itself merely an excuse >to stigmatize English jacobin thinking--the first edition is almost half >an attempted refutation of Malthus' mentor, William Godwin--and the poor >in general, who naturally are the bearers of vice and disease, not to >mention uncontrollable appetites. it is one thing to document >physiological change in animals and its relation to adaption to >environment. it is altogether another thing to explain, for instance, >primogeniture by some genetic inevitability in men. finally, modern >social psychology, which at least takes contemporary folks as its subjects >is handicapped by its focus on rather limited and narrow questions, as >well as its almost comic reliance on college students as a research >group. myself, i prefer the rather old-fashioned literary and intutive >approach > represented by psychoanalysis, which is not so different in form from > that which we have traditionally used to understand social > behaviors: the novel. > >Brown, by the way, is merely a rather reductive and typically American (in >the sense that ego psychology is a typically American rendering of Freud) >rendering of a much more profound thinker, Georges Bataille. in his way, >Bataille's thinking on energy's role in life is a much deeper and broader >meditation on something that bears some resemblance to Freud's death >instinct. Freud has not been forgotten, but rather his thinking has been >absorbed and transformed. > > >Mark Weiss wrote: >There's a lot of huffiness on both sides whenever discussions of >psychological theory come up, and I apologize for my own. But I'll stick >with what I thought was my original point (I never said anything about the >historical significance of Freud), however badly put: one can base an >argument about any aspect of human behavior on a Freudian construct, but >one cannot do so as if that construct was a scientific given, as evolution >by natural selection is. > >Mark. > > >At 10:43 AM 2/7/2005, you wrote: > >I sincerely appreciate Mark Weiss' patient and considered responses to my > >huffy statements. His original point, that I was responding to here, implied > >that Freud's contributions are now considered insignificant, historically, > >in psychology. This is incorrect. Also, the main reason that analytic > >institutes and analysts in private practice don't get as many referrals at > >they used to is managed care, not the ups and downs, in academia, and among > >critics of the field, as to the significance of psychoanalysis. Managed care > >proponents are well aware of the convictions of psychoanalysts about the > >necessity, in some cases, of long term psychotherapy; they don't like it > >because they want to save money for insurance companies. This is an > >understandable conflict. I have also been inside the profession for a long > >time, in fact, over 20 years. I, as well as others, have noted countless > >successes, along with numerous failures, of all kinds of psychotherapy > >treatment. By the way, this is true of any kind of treatment, from > >cardiology to dermatology, so it's no reflection on Freud at all. He himself > >was cautious, and says so in his published writings, as to the probable > >successes of psychoanalytic treatment (see, "Psychoanalysis Terminable and > >Interminable.") The significance of the unconscious, of the ego defenses, > >and so many other contributions of psychoanalysis are very well recognized, > >and were and are debated, as well. My point about Darwin was to illustrate > >the fact that because something is contested, it doesn't mean it isn't > >valid. Everyone now recognizes that psychoanalysis cannot be considered > >"hard science." But it is, frankly, short sighted to attempt to obviate the > >psychological and cultural contributions of Freud's ideas. The fact that > >they are contested, that the debates remain alive, within and without the > >profession, is a sign of life, not death. Like many types of poetry, > >Freudian ideas continue to engender fierce and interesting debates, > >loyalties and disavowals. What else is new? > > > >Nick P. > > > > > >On 2/7/05 12:00 AM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > > > > > We apparently differ on this, which doesn't make my statement dismissably > > > cool yet tiresomely incorrect. I speak, by the way, from having been > inside > > > the profession for many years and seen more than my share of diagnostic > > > disasters by psychoanalysts. I in fact began as a Freudian. After a > couple > > > of years in the field I decided against analytic training--I attended the > > > Ackerman Institute for Family Therapy instead, though I continued to > treat > > > individuals as well, in both long and short-term treatment. I mention > this > > > not to boast but to disabuse you of any assumption that I speak from > > > ignorance. Note that the significance of Freudian slips, the very > existence > > > of the unconscious, and the neurotic foundation of war are hardly > > > uncontested. And comparing questioning of Darwin, who is endlessly > > > replicable by disinterested observers (there has even been observed > > > speciation by means of natural selection) with questioning of Freud seems > > > to me way off. > > > > > > I stand by my last sentence. Even in analytic training institutes it's > > > becoming increasingly difficult to get analytic patients. > > > > > > None of which means that people who believe Freud's theories can't be > good > > > therapists. Experienced therapists tend to do similar things in the > office, > > > regardless of how they explain to themselves why they're doing them. Nor > > > does it mean that Freud's work has no historical significance, and > for some > > > it remains a useful set of metaphors. > > > > > > Regardless, Norman O. Brown's application of psychoanalytic theory, which > > > is where we started, is absurdly reductive. > > > > > > Mark ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 15:36:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Bouchard Subject: The Poker: now and recent, a sales offer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Now that the holiday season is well past, I want to offer again not only the current issue of The Poker (#5, see contents below), but also the back issues of The Poker (#1-4, see contents below). The back issues are going are at 40% off to raise funds for front issues. That's $6 each for issues 1 thru 4. The current issue #5 is $10. Each issue of The Poker is printed in a quantity of a few hundred. Two of the back issues are growing scarce and I don't expect to be able to make this offer again. So get your complete set now, and subscribe for the next few issues. The Poker # 5 poems by Rachel Loden, Chris McCreary, John Ashbery ("Patience is nothing to write home about"), Kevin Davies, Kaia Sand, Marcella Durand, Drew Gardner, Michael Carr, and Fanny Howe; an interview with Robin Blaser ("[Spicer] sent George Stanley and Stan Persky and, who was the third?, up there with protest signs: 'Fuck Duncan,' 'Fuck Jess,' 'Fuck Chi-Chi.' Well, Duncan called the police. I came out but forgot to take off my dragon costume which rather upset the policemen. I got in there and we talked." conducted by John Sakkis; several previously unpublished poems by Jack Spicer ("The other day I saw the corpse of Emily Dickinson floating up the Charles River"); a long out-of-print essay by Laura Riding ("Trollope is one of the noble exceptions: always at pains not to forget or to let his readers forget that he is an ordinary person unnaturally provoked by circumstances (the need of money) into authorship." introduced by Logan Esdale; Tim Peterson reviewing books by Allison Cobb and Brenda Iijima, and responses to Steve Evans's "Field Notes" in The Poker 4 by Nathaniel Tarn ("He had an extremely fresh approach to a problem I have been writing about for many years") and Kent Johnson ("In the case of our 'cutting-edge' poetry, it's clear that the plumage adapts at great speed..."). www.durationpress.com/thepoker Back Issues also Available at $6 per issue for Limited Time . The Poker 1: poetry by Alice Notley, Chris Stroffolino, D. A. Powell, Daniel Bouchard, George Stanley, Jennifer Moxley, Juliana Spahr, Kevin Killian, Kimberly Lyons, Laura Elrick, Philip Jenks, Robert Mueller, and Shin Yu Pai interview with Kimberly Lyons book reviews of Rachel Blau DuPlessis, Joseph Torra, Brenda Bordofsky, MacGregor Card, Karen Weiser and The World in Time and Space (ed. Donahue and Foster) The Poker 2: poetry by Rachel Blau DuPlessis, Kit Robinson, Ange Mlinko, Colin Smith, Camille Guthrie, David Perry, Jennifer Scappettone, K. Silem Mohammad, Joseph Torra, Merrill Gilfillan special poetry section: iraqi poets Jawad Yaqoob, Sadiq al-Saygh, Dunya Mikhail, Yousif al-Sa'igh, Sami Mahdi, Fawzi Karim, Gzar Hantoosh, Sinan Anton, Mahdi Muhammed Ali art by Tom Neely an essay by Jennifer Moxley book reviews of Paul Metcalf, Philip Whalen, Sara Veglahn, Kenneth Rexroth The Poker 3: poetry by Fanny Howe, James Thomas Stevens, Dale Smith, Daniel Bouchard, Jacqueline Waters, Alan Davies, Gleb Shulpyakov, Andrew Schelling, Jules Boykoff, Bruce Holsapple an interview with Kevin Davies essays by William Carlos Williams (introduced by Richard Deming), Fanny Howe, and Aaron Kunin plus a book review of Anselm Berrigan The Poker 4: poetry Anna Moschovakis, Cole Heinowitz, Aaron Kunin. Giuseppe Ungaretti, Hoa Nguyen, Ange Mlinko, Nathaniel Tarn, Rachel Blau DuPlessis, Cedar Sigo and Elizabeth Marie Young; an interview with Ange Mlinko; essays by Juliana Spahr and Steve Evans and book reviews of Kent Johnson and Dale Smith Current issue: $10 Subscription: 3 for $24 Send to: Daniel Bouchard PO Box 390408 Cambridge, MA 02139 www.durationpress.com/thepoker - daniel bouchard ><>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Bouchard Senior Production Coordinator The MIT Press Journals Five Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 bouchard@mit.edu phone: 617.258.0588 fax: 617.258.5028 <>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><>> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 15:45:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: The topic in a different light In-Reply-To: <20050209200830.99595.qmail@web50401.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I suggest you do some reading in the history of the field and also in cognitive psychology. You might want to throw in some systems theory while you're at it. The picture you paint is almost caricature. There may be folks doing psychological reasearch who begin with "the assumption that men and women differ essentially in terms of mode and ability of intelligence," but they hardly represent the field, just as creationists hardly represent biological theory. There are cranks in every field, and their assertions are regularly challenged in the journals. A number of very good studies would seem to indicate that men and women do differ statistically to a slight degree in certain mental abilities, just as they do in certain physical abilities. An example from the latter: the fastest man is likely to be faster than the fastest woman because of the shape of the pelvis and musculature, but there are a fair number of women who are faster than all but the very best male athletes. Because we understand the mechanical reasons for this pretty well we can say with some degree of certainty that the difference isn't cultural. We only have the merest beginning of knowledge about the brain mechanisms that might account for the apparent differences in certain mental abilities, so the jury is still out on whether, in a society in which women and men were acculturated educationally in the same manner, those differences would still hold, though there are respectable studies that suggest, very tentatively, that they may. Bur it's important to remember that at this point the discussion is primarily statistical and explanations of the findings that are based on differences in brain structure are of the most hypothetical. We're talking here about indications that men, statistically, have a slight edge in math, though there are women who are every bit the equal of the best minds in the field, and indications that women have a slight language edge, though there are men who are every bit the equal of the best minds in the field. In any case, the differences, whatever they turn out to be, are miniscule compared to the cultural determinants, and there's more than enough work to be done there for the foreseeable future. Let's try this out: suppose that we learn that the difference is not in potential ability so much as in receptivity to certain ways of teaching. Maybe men simply need to be taught language differently, for instance. That would be a nice thing to know, and it requires the kind of research that's being conducted. Not to speak of the greater understanding the studies will afford of serious health problems. One would think that a good differential map of the brain would aid the surgeon in knowing where to put the knife when necessary. The Oedipus Complex once established became an a priori, by the way. The scientific method is a guide to procedure. Mark At 03:08 PM 2/9/2005, you wrote: >Mark, > >Such reasoning, of course, is based on presumptions, but a presumption is >not an a priori. An a priori is a foundationational premise, such as the >belief in the scientific method or the assumption of Aristotelian >logic. This is not the same thing as holding the presumption that men and >women do not differ discernibly in either ability or mode of >intelligence. The latter is a starting point, while an a priori is the >end of a discussion. It seems certain bio-behavioral scientists (I myself >would not call these researchers "psychologists") begin with the a priori >assumption that men and women differ essentially in terms of mode and >ability of intelligence. > >Freud wrote his work on interpeting dreams with the presumption that they >spoke intelligibly about psychic conditions, conditions which he >catalogued based upon physical manifestations (hysteria, tics, obsessive >compulsive behaviors). The science of his time said simply that were just >in the subject's mind and its positivism wrote them off as mere >phantasy. The new positivism wants to write them off as mere problems >with a subject's synapses or adrenal glands, the better to be cured with >medications. It won't accede to fine discrimination that Freud made >between neuroses with external causes--death of a loved one, difficulty at >work--and neuroses with internal causes (thru the subject's fantasy). It >cannot even consider that the subject's fantasy is itself an embodiment, >even though it is patently evident that we are neither mind nor body but >some muddled mixture. Such mixtures cannot be measured and therefore must >not exist. Our century remains positivist, however dead the > verificationist principle is and the question for a language which is > absolutely logical. > >Thus, it is more than necessary to remember thinkers such as Freud, and >before him Nietzsche and Hegel (not Marx, who unfortunately himself is >some sort of postivist), and more particularly to remember that we have >always come to know things through mixed and messy ways, not simply the >Ready and Easy Way of puritanism and science. > >Robert > > > >Mark Weiss wrote: >I wasn't talking about social or psychological darwinism. Biological >evolution is observable. > >The old-fashioned literary and intuitive approach I hope isn't based on a >prioris. > >Mark > > >At 07:07 PM 2/8/2005, you wrote: > >natural selection of physiological characteristics is a _relative_ > >given. it is indeed a theory, but not an established fact in the way that > >we can establish the fact of gravity. you cannot test evolution nor can > >you repeat the results of the test. part of the problem with the way > >science is taught and understood in this culture is clarity about exactly > >what it _can_ avail you. the scientific method is nearly absolutely silent > >on why things occur, other than it can say when this occurs, this too > >shall occur. it provides no surefooted means to enter into the black box > >of human motivation or thinking. thus neo-Darwinian hypotheses about > >human behavior have as much (or rather less) validity than psychoanalytic > >ones do. psychoanalysis begins with case studies and clinical > >observation, which are not exhaustive but are suggestive; while > >neo-Darwinian speculation on contemporary behavior begins either with > >animal research or with evidence from the fossil record; thus, it either > uses > > subjects which are even less representative than the post-adolescents of > > university psychological research or with behavior that was never > > observed by any living person. > > > >there is a futher irony to consider when dismissing Freudian and > >psychoanalytic explanations of behavior. Darwin himself began using the > >premises of the jejune social science of Malthus, itself merely an excuse > >to stigmatize English jacobin thinking--the first edition is almost half > >an attempted refutation of Malthus' mentor, William Godwin--and the poor > >in general, who naturally are the bearers of vice and disease, not to > >mention uncontrollable appetites. it is one thing to document > >physiological change in animals and its relation to adaption to > >environment. it is altogether another thing to explain, for instance, > >primogeniture by some genetic inevitability in men. finally, modern > >social psychology, which at least takes contemporary folks as its subjects > >is handicapped by its focus on rather limited and narrow questions, as > >well as its almost comic reliance on college students as a research > >group. myself, i prefer the rather old-fashioned literary and intutive > >approach > > represented by psychoanalysis, which is not so different in form from > > that which we have traditionally used to understand social > > behaviors: the novel. > > > >Brown, by the way, is merely a rather reductive and typically American (in > >the sense that ego psychology is a typically American rendering of Freud) > >rendering of a much more profound thinker, Georges Bataille. in his way, > >Bataille's thinking on energy's role in life is a much deeper and broader > >meditation on something that bears some resemblance to Freud's death > >instinct. Freud has not been forgotten, but rather his thinking has been > >absorbed and transformed. > > > > > >Mark Weiss wrote: > >There's a lot of huffiness on both sides whenever discussions of > >psychological theory come up, and I apologize for my own. But I'll stick > >with what I thought was my original point (I never said anything about the > >historical significance of Freud), however badly put: one can base an > >argument about any aspect of human behavior on a Freudian construct, but > >one cannot do so as if that construct was a scientific given, as evolution > >by natural selection is. > > > >Mark. > > > > > >At 10:43 AM 2/7/2005, you wrote: > > >I sincerely appreciate Mark Weiss' patient and considered responses to my > > >huffy statements. His original point, that I was responding to here, > implied > > >that Freud's contributions are now considered insignificant, historically, > > >in psychology. This is incorrect. Also, the main reason that analytic > > >institutes and analysts in private practice don't get as many referrals at > > >they used to is managed care, not the ups and downs, in academia, and > among > > >critics of the field, as to the significance of psychoanalysis. > Managed care > > >proponents are well aware of the convictions of psychoanalysts about the > > >necessity, in some cases, of long term psychotherapy; they don't like it > > >because they want to save money for insurance companies. This is an > > >understandable conflict. I have also been inside the profession for a long > > >time, in fact, over 20 years. I, as well as others, have noted countless > > >successes, along with numerous failures, of all kinds of psychotherapy > > >treatment. By the way, this is true of any kind of treatment, from > > >cardiology to dermatology, so it's no reflection on Freud at all. He > himself > > >was cautious, and says so in his published writings, as to the probable > > >successes of psychoanalytic treatment (see, "Psychoanalysis Terminable and > > >Interminable.") The significance of the unconscious, of the ego defenses, > > >and so many other contributions of psychoanalysis are very well > recognized, > > >and were and are debated, as well. My point about Darwin was to illustrate > > >the fact that because something is contested, it doesn't mean it isn't > > >valid. Everyone now recognizes that psychoanalysis cannot be considered > > >"hard science." But it is, frankly, short sighted to attempt to > obviate the > > >psychological and cultural contributions of Freud's ideas. The fact that > > >they are contested, that the debates remain alive, within and without the > > >profession, is a sign of life, not death. Like many types of poetry, > > >Freudian ideas continue to engender fierce and interesting debates, > > >loyalties and disavowals. What else is new? > > > > > >Nick P. > > > > > > > > >On 2/7/05 12:00 AM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > > > > > > > We apparently differ on this, which doesn't make my statement > dismissably > > > > cool yet tiresomely incorrect. I speak, by the way, from having been > > inside > > > > the profession for many years and seen more than my share of diagnostic > > > > disasters by psychoanalysts. I in fact began as a Freudian. After a > > couple > > > > of years in the field I decided against analytic training--I > attended the > > > > Ackerman Institute for Family Therapy instead, though I continued to > > treat > > > > individuals as well, in both long and short-term treatment. I mention > > this > > > > not to boast but to disabuse you of any assumption that I speak from > > > > ignorance. Note that the significance of Freudian slips, the very > > existence > > > > of the unconscious, and the neurotic foundation of war are hardly > > > > uncontested. And comparing questioning of Darwin, who is endlessly > > > > replicable by disinterested observers (there has even been observed > > > > speciation by means of natural selection) with questioning of Freud > seems > > > > to me way off. > > > > > > > > I stand by my last sentence. Even in analytic training institutes it's > > > > becoming increasingly difficult to get analytic patients. > > > > > > > > None of which means that people who believe Freud's theories can't be > > good > > > > therapists. Experienced therapists tend to do similar things in the > > office, > > > > regardless of how they explain to themselves why they're doing > them. Nor > > > > does it mean that Freud's work has no historical significance, and > > for some > > > > it remains a useful set of metaphors. > > > > > > > > Regardless, Norman O. Brown's application of psychoanalytic theory, > which > > > > is where we started, is absurdly reductive. > > > > > > > > Mark ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 15:57:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "St. Thomasino" Subject: ERATIO SMEARED Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed . ERATIO SMEARED This "review" just up at Web Del Sol, by Tim McGrath: "Eratio Postmodern Poetry =A0 ://=A0 View | Rating: Eratio offers up incomprehensible postmodern fodder for critics of=20 postmodern incomprehensibility. Good luck finding anything=20 intentionally; look for links and find a blog, look for poetry and find=20= quotations. And when you realize that Eratio's editor, Gregory Vincent=20= St. Thomasino (whose name suggests either a pseudonymously guarded=20 narcissist or the tragi-comic hero of a Wes Anderson film) has included=20= his own embarrassing asseverations ("Discourse is like a river" is his=20= unqualified and deplorably facile, but apparently quotable, simile)=20 along with the words of Nietszche, Plato, and Jung, you'll start=20 wondering whether this postmodern experiment is, in fact, a postmodern=20= parody. On the same page, alongside the luminous Lord Duke G.V. St.=20 Thomasino, Diane Wakoski is quoted as saying, "I feel that poetry is=20 the completely personal expression of someone about his feelings and=20 reactions to the world. I think it is only interesting in proportion to=20= how interesting the person who writes it is." By Wakoski's logic, the=20 people who bring you Eratio are not very interesting at all." Friends, as contributors to eratio postmodern poetry, you should=20 proudly count yourselves among some of the most talented and=20 influential writers and artists on the scene today. As editor of the=20 site, I can honestly say that many of the works submitted for eratio=20 simply do not make the cut (and I'm sorry if I've rejected your work,=20 Mr. McGrath, but there's always the welcome to send again).=A0 I try to=20= be fair when making these judgments, because I know what it means to=20 put your heart into something (especially something like poetry), and=20 how it feels to be rejected. Eratio is a labor of love, since it generates no revenue for me (but=20 rather costs me time and energy and money). Each issue requires months=20= of work, involving coding, design, correspondence, planning, and an=20 immeasurable amount of frustration. Ultimately, it's very gratifying --=20= but I cannot say it's fun. Still, I am proud to publish your work and hope that its presence at=20 eratio gives you some exposure and some degree of satisfaction that you=20= otherwise would not have had, and gives you some encouragement to=20 continue being a poet in an economy that doesn't much care about you. I do not know Tim McGrath. But if you read him closely you'll see that=20= this is nothing more than a personal attack on me (based on his dislike=20= of my name!). I am distressed because none of the poetry or artworks=20 are mentioned, and in fact I do not believe Mr. McGrath even bothered=20 to read or look at any of it. (But can he, indeed, talk about the=20 poetry, or the content of the page, or the logic of the concept, I=20 wonder? Why the subterfuge of fixating on my name? No one of any real=20 insight or wit would do that -- unless he were inclined to burlesque.) As a poet and a critic, I take great care to explicate my reasons for=20 "liking" or "disliking" something. More importantly, I consider it my=20 responsibility to try to place a work into context, to appreciate what=20= it is the poet is trying to achieve, and to assess whether this has=20 been accomplished (and sometimes I offer alternatives, but I never=20 ridicule and I am never disrespectful, and I always manage to point out=20= a poet's successes). There are several reviews in the current issue=20 that I took great care in writing, I hope you'll see them for yourself=20= now that the issue is up. Reading Tim McGrath's personal attack (on my name, for Pete's sake!) is=20= an example of something a poet or a critic should never do. Mr. McGrath=20= has latched on to my name as something that irritates him a great deal,=20= and in the process has ignored your work and mine. Why does Mr. McGrath=20= dislike me personally? Could it be that this is payback? (Or else:=20 What's "pseudonymously guarded" about it? What's "narcissist" about it?=20= I will, however, accept that being a Roman Catholic name it is somewhat=20= "tragi-comic.") Mr. McGrath's tone -- glib, cynical, condescending, and uninformed and=20= lacking of the requisite vocabulary to comprehend let alone explicate=20 or set a value upon "the postmodern" -- is indicative not only of Web=20 Del Sol but of the "unlettered lad" generally. I do not know why Web=20 Del Sol has adopted this attack mentality toward anything to do with=20 "the postmodern," but for sure it is the creativity of resentment. Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com http://eratio.blogspot.com/ . ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 16:02:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the lovely image MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed the lovely image please will you to http://www.asondheim.org/ and look for all the indianmaidmyperfecthome jpegs they will astound and delight they form a matrix of my new york city life in peace and in war you will perhaps be disappointed but perhaps you will find them lovely and perfect as they were when first i came across the beautiful views almost with tears in my eyes they are brooklynbotanicalgarden and deanstreetandfifthavenue and i will say they are lovely, and far away from the tragedy of this country and its derailing and its atrocity, sometimes i will sit in the coffeeshop across the street and look up at my windows and think, yes, i live there, and i live there, i am sorry about the size of the images, they are quite large, but they retain the finest detail, they will not be there forever, please come and see my peace and kindness please come and see my hope even though there is silence while images come to you from across the water in every direction, along every road i am sad you will not look at my pictures please look at my pictures you will not make me sad you will make me happy you may smile at love while you wait the long time for the image and the image and you will have time to smile at love and to dream of hope and to hope you will see of the lovely lovely image _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 22:38:09 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: the lovely image In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Compliments Alan, they are wonderful pictures. Especially #12, a peaceful perfection, but also #13 in its wilder (still accurate) being. Thank you for sharing them, Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome The aim of the poet is to awaken emotions in the soul, not to gather admirers. Stalker, Andrei Tarkovsky On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 16:02:13 -0500, Alan Sondheim wrote: > the lovely image > > please will you to http://www.asondheim.org/ and look for all the > indianmaidmyperfecthome jpegs they will astound and delight they form a > matrix of my new york city life in peace and in war you will perhaps be > disappointed but perhaps you will find them lovely and perfect as they > were when first i came across the beautiful views almost with tears in my > eyes > > they are brooklynbotanicalgarden and deanstreetandfifthavenue and i will > say they are lovely, and far away from the tragedy of this country and its > derailing and its atrocity, sometimes i will sit in the coffeeshop across > the street and look up at my windows and think, yes, i live there, and i > live there, i am sorry about the size of the images, they are quite large, > but they retain the finest detail, they will not be there forever, please > come and see my peace and kindness > > please come and see my hope even though there is silence while images come > to you from across the water in every direction, along every road > > i am sad you will not look at my pictures please look at my pictures > > you will not make me sad you will make me happy > > you may smile at love while you wait the long time for the image and the > image and you will have time to smile at love and to dream of hope and to > hope > > you will see of the lovely lovely image > > _ > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 13:44:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Tim Yu's blog is back in action Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit http://tympan.blogspot.com/ It is nice to see his intelligence flowing back down the pipes. I guess blogs are all about plumbing, right? Let's say Tim usually has good pipes. Chops? Chops are something else. & "pipes and chops" would sound weird. Though folks with good chops by definition - unless they indulge too much - Often have good pipes. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 14:54:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: The topic in a different light In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.1.20050209151704.040aab90@pop.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mark, Your snideness here to me is something I can only read as defensiveness. It makes me want to ask you a question which I think as the prime one that psychoanalysis asks: What exactly are you afraid of? Robert Mark Weiss wrote: I suggest you do some reading in the history of the field and also in cognitive psychology. You might want to throw in some systems theory while you're at it. The picture you paint is almost caricature. There may be folks doing psychological reasearch who begin with "the assumption that men and women differ essentially in terms of mode and ability of intelligence," but they hardly represent the field, just as creationists hardly represent biological theory. There are cranks in every field, and their assertions are regularly challenged in the journals. A number of very good studies would seem to indicate that men and women do differ statistically to a slight degree in certain mental abilities, just as they do in certain physical abilities. An example from the latter: the fastest man is likely to be faster than the fastest woman because of the shape of the pelvis and musculature, but there are a fair number of women who are faster than all but the very best male athletes. Because we understand the mechanical reasons for this pretty well we can say with some degree of certainty that the difference isn't cultural. We only have the merest beginning of knowledge about the brain mechanisms that might account for the apparent differences in certain mental abilities, so the jury is still out on whether, in a society in which women and men were acculturated educationally in the same manner, those differences would still hold, though there are respectable studies that suggest, very tentatively, that they may. Bur it's important to remember that at this point the discussion is primarily statistical and explanations of the findings that are based on differences in brain structure are of the most hypothetical. We're talking here about indications that men, statistically, have a slight edge in math, though there are women who are every bit the equal of the best minds in the field, and indications that women have a slight language edge, though there are men who are every bit the equal of the best minds in the field. In any case, the differences, whatever they turn out to be, are miniscule compared to the cultural determinants, and there's more than enough work to be done there for the foreseeable future. Let's try this out: suppose that we learn that the difference is not in potential ability so much as in receptivity to certain ways of teaching. Maybe men simply need to be taught language differently, for instance. That would be a nice thing to know, and it requires the kind of research that's being conducted. Not to speak of the greater understanding the studies will afford of serious health problems. One would think that a good differential map of the brain would aid the surgeon in knowing where to put the knife when necessary. The Oedipus Complex once established became an a priori, by the way. The scientific method is a guide to procedure. Mark At 03:08 PM 2/9/2005, you wrote: >Mark, > >Such reasoning, of course, is based on presumptions, but a presumption is >not an a priori. An a priori is a foundationational premise, such as the >belief in the scientific method or the assumption of Aristotelian >logic. This is not the same thing as holding the presumption that men and >women do not differ discernibly in either ability or mode of >intelligence. The latter is a starting point, while an a priori is the >end of a discussion. It seems certain bio-behavioral scientists (I myself >would not call these researchers "psychologists") begin with the a priori >assumption that men and women differ essentially in terms of mode and >ability of intelligence. > >Freud wrote his work on interpeting dreams with the presumption that they >spoke intelligibly about psychic conditions, conditions which he >catalogued based upon physical manifestations (hysteria, tics, obsessive >compulsive behaviors). The science of his time said simply that were just >in the subject's mind and its positivism wrote them off as mere >phantasy. The new positivism wants to write them off as mere problems >with a subject's synapses or adrenal glands, the better to be cured with >medications. It won't accede to fine discrimination that Freud made >between neuroses with external causes--death of a loved one, difficulty at >work--and neuroses with internal causes (thru the subject's fantasy). It >cannot even consider that the subject's fantasy is itself an embodiment, >even though it is patently evident that we are neither mind nor body but >some muddled mixture. Such mixtures cannot be measured and therefore must >not exist. Our century remains positivist, however dead the > verificationist principle is and the question for a language which is > absolutely logical. > >Thus, it is more than necessary to remember thinkers such as Freud, and >before him Nietzsche and Hegel (not Marx, who unfortunately himself is >some sort of postivist), and more particularly to remember that we have >always come to know things through mixed and messy ways, not simply the >Ready and Easy Way of puritanism and science. > >Robert > > > >Mark Weiss wrote: >I wasn't talking about social or psychological darwinism. Biological >evolution is observable. > >The old-fashioned literary and intuitive approach I hope isn't based on a >prioris. > >Mark > > >At 07:07 PM 2/8/2005, you wrote: > >natural selection of physiological characteristics is a _relative_ > >given. it is indeed a theory, but not an established fact in the way that > >we can establish the fact of gravity. you cannot test evolution nor can > >you repeat the results of the test. part of the problem with the way > >science is taught and understood in this culture is clarity about exactly > >what it _can_ avail you. the scientific method is nearly absolutely silent > >on why things occur, other than it can say when this occurs, this too > >shall occur. it provides no surefooted means to enter into the black box > >of human motivation or thinking. thus neo-Darwinian hypotheses about > >human behavior have as much (or rather less) validity than psychoanalytic > >ones do. psychoanalysis begins with case studies and clinical > >observation, which are not exhaustive but are suggestive; while > >neo-Darwinian speculation on contemporary behavior begins either with > >animal research or with evidence from the fossil record; thus, it either > uses > > subjects which are even less representative than the post-adolescents of > > university psychological research or with behavior that was never > > observed by any living person. > > > >there is a futher irony to consider when dismissing Freudian and > >psychoanalytic explanations of behavior. Darwin himself began using the > >premises of the jejune social science of Malthus, itself merely an excuse > >to stigmatize English jacobin thinking--the first edition is almost half > >an attempted refutation of Malthus' mentor, William Godwin--and the poor > >in general, who naturally are the bearers of vice and disease, not to > >mention uncontrollable appetites. it is one thing to document > >physiological change in animals and its relation to adaption to > >environment. it is altogether another thing to explain, for instance, > >primogeniture by some genetic inevitability in men. finally, modern > >social psychology, which at least takes contemporary folks as its subjects > >is handicapped by its focus on rather limited and narrow questions, as > >well as its almost comic reliance on college students as a research > >group. myself, i prefer the rather old-fashioned literary and intutive > >approach > > represented by psychoanalysis, which is not so different in form from > > that which we have traditionally used to understand social > > behaviors: the novel. > > > >Brown, by the way, is merely a rather reductive and typically American (in > >the sense that ego psychology is a typically American rendering of Freud) > >rendering of a much more profound thinker, Georges Bataille. in his way, > >Bataille's thinking on energy's role in life is a much deeper and broader > >meditation on something that bears some resemblance to Freud's death > >instinct. Freud has not been forgotten, but rather his thinking has been > >absorbed and transformed. > > > > > >Mark Weiss wrote: > >There's a lot of huffiness on both sides whenever discussions of > >psychological theory come up, and I apologize for my own. But I'll stick > >with what I thought was my original point (I never said anything about the > >historical significance of Freud), however badly put: one can base an > >argument about any aspect of human behavior on a Freudian construct, but > >one cannot do so as if that construct was a scientific given, as evolution > >by natural selection is. > > > >Mark. > > > > > >At 10:43 AM 2/7/2005, you wrote: > > >I sincerely appreciate Mark Weiss' patient and considered responses to my > > >huffy statements. His original point, that I was responding to here, > implied > > >that Freud's contributions are now considered insignificant, historically, > > >in psychology. This is incorrect. Also, the main reason that analytic > > >institutes and analysts in private practice don't get as many referrals at > > >they used to is managed care, not the ups and downs, in academia, and > among > > >critics of the field, as to the significance of psychoanalysis. > Managed care > > >proponents are well aware of the convictions of psychoanalysts about the > > >necessity, in some cases, of long term psychotherapy; they don't like it > > >because they want to save money for insurance companies. This is an > > >understandable conflict. I have also been inside the profession for a long > > >time, in fact, over 20 years. I, as well as others, have noted countless > > >successes, along with numerous failures, of all kinds of psychotherapy > > >treatment. By the way, this is true of any kind of treatment, from > > >cardiology to dermatology, so it's no reflection on Freud at all. He > himself > > >was cautious, and says so in his published writings, as to the probable > > >successes of psychoanalytic treatment (see, "Psychoanalysis Terminable and > > >Interminable.") The significance of the unconscious, of the ego defenses, > > >and so many other contributions of psychoanalysis are very well > recognized, > > >and were and are debated, as well. My point about Darwin was to illustrate > > >the fact that because something is contested, it doesn't mean it isn't > > >valid. Everyone now recognizes that psychoanalysis cannot be considered > > >"hard science." But it is, frankly, short sighted to attempt to > obviate the > > >psychological and cultural contributions of Freud's ideas. The fact that > > >they are contested, that the debates remain alive, within and without the > > >profession, is a sign of life, not death. Like many types of poetry, > > >Freudian ideas continue to engender fierce and interesting debates, > > >loyalties and disavowals. What else is new? > > > > > >Nick P. > > > > > > > > >On 2/7/05 12:00 AM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > > > > > > > We apparently differ on this, which doesn't make my statement > dismissably > > > > cool yet tiresomely incorrect. I speak, by the way, from having been > > inside > > > > the profession for many years and seen more than my share of diagnostic > > > > disasters by psychoanalysts. I in fact began as a Freudian. After a > > couple > > > > of years in the field I decided against analytic training--I > attended the > > > > Ackerman Institute for Family Therapy instead, though I continued to > > treat > > > > individuals as well, in both long and short-term treatment. I mention > > this > > > > not to boast but to disabuse you of any assumption that I speak from > > > > ignorance. Note that the significance of Freudian slips, the very > > existence > > > > of the unconscious, and the neurotic foundation of war are hardly > > > > uncontested. And comparing questioning of Darwin, who is endlessly > > > > replicable by disinterested observers (there has even been observed > > > > speciation by means of natural selection) with questioning of Freud > seems > > > > to me way off. > > > > > > > > I stand by my last sentence. Even in analytic training institutes it's > > > > becoming increasingly difficult to get analytic patients. > > > > > > > > None of which means that people who believe Freud's theories can't be > > good > > > > therapists. Experienced therapists tend to do similar things in the > > office, > > > > regardless of how they explain to themselves why they're doing > them. Nor > > > > does it mean that Freud's work has no historical significance, and > > for some > > > > it remains a useful set of metaphors. > > > > > > > > Regardless, Norman O. Brown's application of psychoanalytic theory, > which > > > > is where we started, is absurdly reductive. > > > > > > > > Mark ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 05:44:06 +0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Hardacre Subject: Call for submissions: papertiger new world poetry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=======AVGMAIL-420A92364F80=======" --=======AVGMAIL-420A92364F80======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable papertiger: new world poetry #05 =20 papertiger: new world poetry seeks submissions of text, audio, video, = and Flash poetry, plus poetry-related photography and visual art, essays = and interviews for issue #05. Submissions will only be considered until = May 2005, so submit now.=20 =20 For full details read the submission guidelines at = http://www.papertigermedia.com/guidelines/pt_guidelines.html --=======AVGMAIL-420A92364F80======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg=cert; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: "AVG certification" No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.6 - Release Date: 2/7/2005 --=======AVGMAIL-420A92364F80=======-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 18:07:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: The topic in a different light In-Reply-To: <20050209225404.61099.qmail@web50410.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed End of discussion. You're not worth the time. Mark At 05:54 PM 2/9/2005, you wrote: >Mark, > >Your snideness here to me is something I can only read as >defensiveness. It makes me want to ask you a question which I think as >the prime one that psychoanalysis asks: What exactly are you afraid of? > >Robert > > >Mark Weiss wrote: >I suggest you do some reading in the history of the field and also in >cognitive psychology. You might want to throw in some systems theory while >you're at it. The picture you paint is almost caricature. > >There may be folks doing psychological reasearch who begin with "the >assumption that men and women differ essentially in terms of mode and >ability of intelligence," but they hardly represent the field, just as >creationists hardly represent biological theory. There are cranks in every >field, and their assertions are regularly challenged in the journals. A >number of very good studies would seem to indicate that men and women do >differ statistically to a slight degree in certain mental abilities, just >as they do in certain physical abilities. An example from the latter: the >fastest man is likely to be faster than the fastest woman because of the >shape of the pelvis and musculature, but there are a fair number of women >who are faster than all but the very best male athletes. Because we >understand the mechanical reasons for this pretty well we can say with some >degree of certainty that the difference isn't cultural. We only have the >merest beginning of knowledge about the brain mechanisms that might account >for the apparent differences in certain mental abilities, so the jury is >still out on whether, in a society in which women and men were acculturated >educationally in the same manner, those differences would still hold, >though there are respectable studies that suggest, very tentatively, that >they may. > >Bur it's important to remember that at this point the discussion is >primarily statistical and explanations of the findings that are based on >differences in brain structure are of the most hypothetical. > >We're talking here about indications that men, statistically, have a slight >edge in math, though there are women who are every bit the equal of the >best minds in the field, and indications that women have a slight language >edge, though there are men who are every bit the equal of the best minds in >the field. In any case, the differences, whatever they turn out to be, are >miniscule compared to the cultural determinants, and there's more than >enough work to be done there for the foreseeable future. > >Let's try this out: suppose that we learn that the difference is not in >potential ability so much as in receptivity to certain ways of teaching. >Maybe men simply need to be taught language differently, for instance. That >would be a nice thing to know, and it requires the kind of research that's >being conducted. Not to speak of the greater understanding the studies will >afford of serious health problems. One would think that a good differential >map of the brain would aid the surgeon in knowing where to put the knife >when necessary. > >The Oedipus Complex once established became an a priori, by the way. The >scientific method is a guide to procedure. > >Mark > > >At 03:08 PM 2/9/2005, you wrote: > >Mark, > > > >Such reasoning, of course, is based on presumptions, but a presumption is > >not an a priori. An a priori is a foundationational premise, such as the > >belief in the scientific method or the assumption of Aristotelian > >logic. This is not the same thing as holding the presumption that men and > >women do not differ discernibly in either ability or mode of > >intelligence. The latter is a starting point, while an a priori is the > >end of a discussion. It seems certain bio-behavioral scientists (I myself > >would not call these researchers "psychologists") begin with the a priori > >assumption that men and women differ essentially in terms of mode and > >ability of intelligence. > > > >Freud wrote his work on interpeting dreams with the presumption that they > >spoke intelligibly about psychic conditions, conditions which he > >catalogued based upon physical manifestations (hysteria, tics, obsessive > >compulsive behaviors). The science of his time said simply that were just > >in the subject's mind and its positivism wrote them off as mere > >phantasy. The new positivism wants to write them off as mere problems > >with a subject's synapses or adrenal glands, the better to be cured with > >medications. It won't accede to fine discrimination that Freud made > >between neuroses with external causes--death of a loved one, difficulty at > >work--and neuroses with internal causes (thru the subject's fantasy). It > >cannot even consider that the subject's fantasy is itself an embodiment, > >even though it is patently evident that we are neither mind nor body but > >some muddled mixture. Such mixtures cannot be measured and therefore must > >not exist. Our century remains positivist, however dead the > > verificationist principle is and the question for a language which is > > absolutely logical. > > > >Thus, it is more than necessary to remember thinkers such as Freud, and > >before him Nietzsche and Hegel (not Marx, who unfortunately himself is > >some sort of postivist), and more particularly to remember that we have > >always come to know things through mixed and messy ways, not simply the > >Ready and Easy Way of puritanism and science. > > > >Robert > > > > > > > >Mark Weiss wrote: > >I wasn't talking about social or psychological darwinism. Biological > >evolution is observable. > > > >The old-fashioned literary and intuitive approach I hope isn't based on a > >prioris. > > > >Mark > > > > > >At 07:07 PM 2/8/2005, you wrote: > > >natural selection of physiological characteristics is a _relative_ > > >given. it is indeed a theory, but not an established fact in the way that > > >we can establish the fact of gravity. you cannot test evolution nor can > > >you repeat the results of the test. part of the problem with the way > > >science is taught and understood in this culture is clarity about exactly > > >what it _can_ avail you. the scientific method is nearly absolutely silent > > >on why things occur, other than it can say when this occurs, this too > > >shall occur. it provides no surefooted means to enter into the black box > > >of human motivation or thinking. thus neo-Darwinian hypotheses about > > >human behavior have as much (or rather less) validity than psychoanalytic > > >ones do. psychoanalysis begins with case studies and clinical > > >observation, which are not exhaustive but are suggestive; while > > >neo-Darwinian speculation on contemporary behavior begins either with > > >animal research or with evidence from the fossil record; thus, it either > > uses > > > subjects which are even less representative than the post-adolescents of > > > university psychological research or with behavior that was never > > > observed by any living person. > > > > > >there is a futher irony to consider when dismissing Freudian and > > >psychoanalytic explanations of behavior. Darwin himself began using the > > >premises of the jejune social science of Malthus, itself merely an excuse > > >to stigmatize English jacobin thinking--the first edition is almost half > > >an attempted refutation of Malthus' mentor, William Godwin--and the poor > > >in general, who naturally are the bearers of vice and disease, not to > > >mention uncontrollable appetites. it is one thing to document > > >physiological change in animals and its relation to adaption to > > >environment. it is altogether another thing to explain, for instance, > > >primogeniture by some genetic inevitability in men. finally, modern > > >social psychology, which at least takes contemporary folks as its subjects > > >is handicapped by its focus on rather limited and narrow questions, as > > >well as its almost comic reliance on college students as a research > > >group. myself, i prefer the rather old-fashioned literary and intutive > > >approach > > > represented by psychoanalysis, which is not so different in form from > > > that which we have traditionally used to understand social > > > behaviors: the novel. > > > > > >Brown, by the way, is merely a rather reductive and typically American (in > > >the sense that ego psychology is a typically American rendering of Freud) > > >rendering of a much more profound thinker, Georges Bataille. in his way, > > >Bataille's thinking on energy's role in life is a much deeper and broader > > >meditation on something that bears some resemblance to Freud's death > > >instinct. Freud has not been forgotten, but rather his thinking has been > > >absorbed and transformed. > > > > > > > > >Mark Weiss wrote: > > >There's a lot of huffiness on both sides whenever discussions of > > >psychological theory come up, and I apologize for my own. But I'll stick > > >with what I thought was my original point (I never said anything about the > > >historical significance of Freud), however badly put: one can base an > > >argument about any aspect of human behavior on a Freudian construct, but > > >one cannot do so as if that construct was a scientific given, as evolution > > >by natural selection is. > > > > > >Mark. > > > > > > > > >At 10:43 AM 2/7/2005, you wrote: > > > >I sincerely appreciate Mark Weiss' patient and considered responses > to my > > > >huffy statements. His original point, that I was responding to here, > > implied > > > >that Freud's contributions are now considered insignificant, > historically, > > > >in psychology. This is incorrect. Also, the main reason that analytic > > > >institutes and analysts in private practice don't get as many > referrals at > > > >they used to is managed care, not the ups and downs, in academia, and > > among > > > >critics of the field, as to the significance of psychoanalysis. > > Managed care > > > >proponents are well aware of the convictions of psychoanalysts about the > > > >necessity, in some cases, of long term psychotherapy; they don't like it > > > >because they want to save money for insurance companies. This is an > > > >understandable conflict. I have also been inside the profession for > a long > > > >time, in fact, over 20 years. I, as well as others, have noted countless > > > >successes, along with numerous failures, of all kinds of psychotherapy > > > >treatment. By the way, this is true of any kind of treatment, from > > > >cardiology to dermatology, so it's no reflection on Freud at all. He > > himself > > > >was cautious, and says so in his published writings, as to the probable > > > >successes of psychoanalytic treatment (see, "Psychoanalysis > Terminable and > > > >Interminable.") The significance of the unconscious, of the ego > defenses, > > > >and so many other contributions of psychoanalysis are very well > > recognized, > > > >and were and are debated, as well. My point about Darwin was to > illustrate > > > >the fact that because something is contested, it doesn't mean it isn't > > > >valid. Everyone now recognizes that psychoanalysis cannot be considered > > > >"hard science." But it is, frankly, short sighted to attempt to > > obviate the > > > >psychological and cultural contributions of Freud's ideas. The fact that > > > >they are contested, that the debates remain alive, within and > without the > > > >profession, is a sign of life, not death. Like many types of poetry, > > > >Freudian ideas continue to engender fierce and interesting debates, > > > >loyalties and disavowals. What else is new? > > > > > > > >Nick P. > > > > > > > > > > > >On 2/7/05 12:00 AM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > > > > > > > > > We apparently differ on this, which doesn't make my statement > > dismissably > > > > > cool yet tiresomely incorrect. I speak, by the way, from having been > > > inside > > > > > the profession for many years and seen more than my share of > diagnostic > > > > > disasters by psychoanalysts. I in fact began as a Freudian. After a > > > couple > > > > > of years in the field I decided against analytic training--I > > attended the > > > > > Ackerman Institute for Family Therapy instead, though I continued to > > > treat > > > > > individuals as well, in both long and short-term treatment. I mention > > > this > > > > > not to boast but to disabuse you of any assumption that I speak from > > > > > ignorance. Note that the significance of Freudian slips, the very > > > existence > > > > > of the unconscious, and the neurotic foundation of war are hardly > > > > > uncontested. And comparing questioning of Darwin, who is endlessly > > > > > replicable by disinterested observers (there has even been observed > > > > > speciation by means of natural selection) with questioning of Freud > > seems > > > > > to me way off. > > > > > > > > > > I stand by my last sentence. Even in analytic training institutes > it's > > > > > becoming increasingly difficult to get analytic patients. > > > > > > > > > > None of which means that people who believe Freud's theories can't be > > > good > > > > > therapists. Experienced therapists tend to do similar things in the > > > office, > > > > > regardless of how they explain to themselves why they're doing > > them. Nor > > > > > does it mean that Freud's work has no historical significance, and > > > for some > > > > > it remains a useful set of metaphors. > > > > > > > > > > Regardless, Norman O. Brown's application of psychoanalytic theory, > > which > > > > > is where we started, is absurdly reductive. > > > > > > > > > > Mark ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 18:44:45 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: The Religious Foundation of Language - Part II MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "If probability study makes the existence of "bible code" arguably =20 defensible, reasonable science must accept the conclusion, define the effect= , and=20 recognize it for what it is: a system-wide error in collective assessment; a= =20 replicative error driven by an adequate magnitude of collective assessment t= o =20 continue; an error growing in a specifically effected and expected dynamic t= hat =20 it would not be desirable to eradicate in order to remove the error; an erro= r =20 intrinsic to a dynamic expanding because of that dynamic; an error appearing= =20 nearly universally virulent across subsections of a definable dynamic. The =20 apparent after the fact clairvoyance of certain passages of "bible code" =20 accurately naming modern non-Jewish figures and events, such as Kennedy, Hu= ssein,=20 Bush, and others, nations, wars, assassinations, and political events, =20 attests to the virulence of the error across cultural and liguistic barriers= . The=20 human future to this point has arguably; been predicted by, and been =20 influenced by, if not literally manufactured or objectivised by - "bible co= de". One=20 thing is abundantly clear; it is not enough for humans to say: "I don't believe in=20 God". The cross cultural and clairvoyant nature of the "code" passages, and= the=20 arguably probable "subliminal" influences that can exist in written=20 language, leave us with only one option - we must know there is no God, we=20= must=20 reasonably prove that God, or any kind of Gods simply do not and never have= =20 existed, or we will allow biblical armageddon as it is already written in c= ode. An=20 examination of "bible code" as a quantum dynamic natured phenomenon now=20 affords us that opportunity, if we use a disciplined and reasonably=20 instrumentalist approach. =20 The apparent after the fact clairvoyance of code passages is an exhibition =20 of a controlling formulation of dynamic factors that produces an effect. The= =20 predictability factor of the passages is essentially meaningless in science.= We=20 may produce replicative phenomena through instrumental methods but we may=20 not predict that the result will always be the same. This is because all=20 observable phenomena are affected by certain and several undefined though=20 reasonably expected dynamics. Because certain reliable dynamics are essenti= ally=20 undefined we may only reasonably predict results, but in certain circumstan= ces we=20 may produce reliably replicative results through formulation. It is the=20 production of results, not the prediction of results, that must be consider= ed in=20 examining a specific effect or phenomenal dynamic. If a result or effect is= =20 produced, its formula must be ascertainable. If something written thousands= of=20 years ago has now been observed as producing a result it is a reliably=20 productive formula within our range of comprehension. The difficulty with a= formula=20 for this particular effect is that it is a system-wide formula. Since=20 cognition is arguably the last recognizable developmental dynamic the unive= rsal=20 system has managed to objectivise, any formula producing the particular eff= ect we=20 are discussing would have to be factored containing every single dynamic=20 responsible for the production of cognition and every single dynamic produc= ed by=20 cognition.=20 =20 In the west we fancy ourselves as free individuals. We may be free within =20 the parameter of human existence, but we are not universally free. We are th= e =20 product of a formula. We are a reasonably reliably produced result. What the= =20 result that we are produces back into the universal system as effect and dynamic cannot be without signifigance. When= =20 we produce an effect in the system it is important to question its=20 developmental potential. Does the effect encourage or hinder development? I= n the case=20 of the effect we are discussing: it is a formulaic constraint on the original formula; essentially using the same =20 undefined dynamics available in the original formula to control a built-in =20 developmental process of the original formula. It is inflexible and empirici= st in=20 its seeking to impart cognitive nature to what are just yet to be defined =20 reasonably reliable dynamics. There are no laws in universal reality just =20 reasonably reliable yet to be defined dynamics ascertained so by their prod= uction=20 of replicative results in certain formulations. The idea of God is an =20 intellectual recycle bin: that is a place to put everything we have yet to =20 understand. It's time to restore some of the files we've allowed to be sent=20= there. The=20 effect we are discussing is a hindrance to development. The formula that=20 produces the effect is essentially: laziness and stupidity written down pro= duces=20 system-wide error as long as certain reliable yet to be defined universal=20 dynamics are not reasonably understood.=20 =20 There is a vast difference between understanding and defining. Essentially =20 nothing can be defined. This is because there is no definable beginning or e= nd =20 to anything, only an experiential or existential middle. We may however =20 understand a reasonably probable beginning, and reasonably assess apparent effects in the middle of=20 existence. If written language and human understanding has produced a syste= m-wide=20 predictable outcome for each and every individual instance of human cogniti= on it=20 is clearly an error and unfortunately a prison as well. In order to break o= ut=20 of jail we must find the right hole in one of the dynamics at work in the formula producing the undesirable effect= .=20 The scribes did not predict the future. They produced our present with a=20 parlor trick. That is not remarkable. The mass hysteria in an age before ma= ss=20 communication that caused the scribes to produce our present is not remarkable just a product of unfavorable cosmic events,=20 fear, and cultural isolation. The unfavorable cosmic cataclysms that produc= ed=20 the hysteria are not remarkable. The cause of the cataclysms is not=20 remarkable. That language has affected us into a system-wide error in thinking is not remarkable. What is remarkable is that=20= =20 we have in this age so easily surrendered our individual potential rather th= an=20 making a reasonable attempt to understand it. In this age of mass=20 communication I am personally capable of using the same linguistic methodology as the scribes to produce a new system-wide=20 effect in human cognition much more quickly than the scribes. Because I=20 understand existence to a greater degree than the scribes, and expect the c= ontinuing=20 development of human cognition, I respect the individual potential of every single instance of human cognitio= n=20 and can only write without guile. What I know will not allow me to mass=20 constrain an open-ended potential for human existence with the manipulation= of=20 cognition utilizing the dynamic of language. Human cognition is meant to so= ar=20 or fall according to the whim of its each individual instance, and it is=20 reasonable to assume so. If every human being contemporary to your existenc= e=20 cannot see any hole in the wall of this error produced prison, and you alon= e=20 discover a hole =E2=80=93 you are ready to go through it to freedom. The ho= le is=20 understanding a few of those yet to be defined reasonably reliable universa= l dynamics=20 reasonably enough to understand your own individual possibilities." =20 by Trinidad Cruz used with permission originally posted at "existlist" discussion group within the context of phenomenology, atheism vs. theism, and =20 language-literary theory =20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 18:44:40 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: The Religious Foundation of Language - Part I MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "To begin this discussion I want to use the term "subliminal" but since it is a somewhat overused and archaic term I want to briefly clarify. I think for the most part it will be acceptable in this discussion as commonly understood; I am just attempting to avoid any contentiousness over terminology from psychology majors on this list. For the purpose of this discussion I propose that "subliminal" be taken to mean: "cognitive realization of intellectual proposal outside of immediate logical recognition" a kind of sensory and cognitive sleight of hand. At the outset I must responsibly remark that other than physical abuse modern psychology is relatively divided about the probability of "subliminal" influences on human reason. Personally, having a bit more than a passing acquaintance with old school cryptography and modern computer security, I have been humorously perplexed for some time about the controversy over equidistant letter sequencing alledged to exist in Hebrew language passages of the bible, the Christian or Jewish mathematicians wet dream commonly called "bible code", and I have begun to look at it as what I think it really is: a poorly comprehended and conceived probability problem. In any case I want to discuss the "subliminal" issue first. In ordinary written English we have 52 basic symbols and nine commonly used punctuation symbols. Basic cryptography involved letter substitution and code pointers, the more pointers the deeper the code. It has been around since the Greek alphabet, and now seems to have been around since the Hebrew alphabet, which means probably the Sumerian and Babylonian. I think that this needs to become significant to anthropologists and historical linguists. Written langauge is essentially codefied thought. Pictographic written languages like Egyptian, and to a lesser degree calligraphic written languages like Chinese are more likely to be esoteric in direct presentation, that is: one had to know the secret to recognize any secret; thus a lower sensory threshold area of the mind could only be reached by veiwed written material through a more meditative gazing process of visual absorbtion. Concrete characters such as those in English and Hebrew could reveal esoteric messages to those who knew or discovered a code without the necessity of knowing any secret other than a collection of characters, because the characters are always essentially the same document to document, no lengthy visual meditation is normally required, and the letters already exist at a lower sensory threshold area, thus arguably allowing for the possibility of "subliminal" influence on a dilettante reader. In quantum theory rhythm is like a pointer dynamic, simply put: if dynamics or objects exhibit rhythm it is extremely probable that the result is either another observable dynamic or another observable object. If the probability of the nascense of formulated cognition is virtually inevitable in quantum systems, as I and many others think it arguably is, then the argument over the probability that equidistant letter sequencing in concretized alphabet written languages is capable of causing cognitive realization of intellectual proposal outside of immediate logical recognition is proved as: you bet, it is highly probable. It is remarkably reminiscent of fundamental theory in the proposition of quantum computing environments relating to the grossly or carefully misrepresented term, depending on your point of view or political affiliation, "artificial" intelligence. We really do not know what rhythmic patterns of letters can do rolling around in a human readers mind, but if we are able to logically decipher the code after the fact with simple mathematics, it is probable that the same capacity exists in a lower sensory threshold area or "subliminal" area of the human mind; therefore it is possible that one could absorb information nearly unawares, and outwardly exhibit the effect of that absorbed information essentially unaware of its origin. Personally, I can attest that I have solved mathematical problems in my dreams and awoke with a memory of the problem and the solution, usually startled awake by finding the solution. Since only a very small number of western Christians read authentic Hebrew bibles the whole idea of "bible code" seems quaint. The agendized esoteric use of rhythmic letter and/or symbol placement in written languages with concretized alphabets is historically evidenced in many languages. There is every reason to believe that codes exist in a multitude of liguistically diverse archaic documents, (i/e the finger alphabet in "The White Goddess" by Graves) and are probably readily discernible to one who at least grasps the possible agenda of the writer. Obviously "bible code" whether real, or fabricated, or both, has an agenda. "Bible code" is not reasonable evidence of the existence of God. A literate modern first grader could conceive of the idea and practice of code. "Bible code" is not reasonable evidence that aliens from outer space mistaken for Gods by ancient humans taught humans about code and physics. There is nothing alien about language or code, in fact it is profoundly human. Code existed for naked Irishmen too. It is more reasonable to propose that "Bible code" was probably normally practiced by the Hebrew scribes of the era, and that it was a type of esoteric practice commonly evidenced in other anient languages and cultures. The real clues to the agenda are: the nature of the document the code is said to exist in this case, and the apparent after the fact clairvoyant nature of the code messages. The bible itself is in large part a disjointed documentation of a specific cultural very human hysteria that spilled over into the world at large. Initially, archaically, an elite group of elders or scribes may have fanned the flames of the hysteria and been able to induce a collective assessment of great enough scale to produce apparently physical or cosmic phenomena, or often even laying claim as well through induced hysteria to ordinary cosmic or elemental phenomena. In any case, as writers often cannot resist bragging a bit, the bible itself, and Hebrew theology, evidence a knowledege of the basic implications of collective assessment. (i/e "God inhabits the praises of his people" or even the idea of the "Matronit") The apparent after the fact clairvoyance of passages of code is indicative of the result of collective hysteria and evidence of a quantum sociological effect in human cogniton: predicting a future of ongoing cognitive assessment without proven evidence, fueled by a relatively large enough magnitude of collective hysterical cognitive assessment, will conversely but inevitably evidence a system-wide predictable future of similar hysterical cognitive assessment, until all causal factors relative to the phenomena are defined correctly. There is no doubt that cultural isolation begins in hysteria, is fueled onward by hysteria, and acts outwardly in hysteria; an hysteria seized upon in a lack of fundamental existential evidence. The point is this: apparent after the fact encoded esoteric evidence of clairvoyance is indicative of a disasterous error in collective assessment, not the hand of a God. The same methodological errors in collective assessment are entrenched in modern science. "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" because if it is written - it is replicative. It may take a hundred monkeys or more to shift a biological pattern, but the change began with one. Because of written language it only requires three humans to make a collective assessment that is potentially culture-wide or even world-wide, and only one of them has to be stupid for that assessment to be wrong." by Trinidad Cruz used with permission originally posted at "existlist" discussion group within the context of phenomenology, atheism vs. theism, and language-literary theory ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 00:32:42 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: The Religious Foundation of Language - Part I MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Mary Jo Malo" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 11:44 PM Subject: The Religious Foundation of Language - Part I Utter and total bushshit. Whaledreck. R. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 20:03:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Russell Golata Subject: Re: The Religious Foundation of Language - Part I Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 A book that investigates the Numerical configuration of the old and new testaments is called Theomatics-Don't remember the author. It states that Man couldn't write these books -because every line where God is mentioned God appears on the 8th syllable. There was also a book written about Shakespeare--with the same theory. >
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> -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.5 - Release Date: 2/3/05 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 19:50:03 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: The SCHOOL FOR DESIGNING A SOCIETY (corrected URL) Comments: To: WRYTING-L Disciplines , dreamtime@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We need help finding students, or, finding people who will direct students to check us out. So if, during your day, you see some creatures who you imagine would like to play with language, composition, desire, society---please, let them know of our existence, or vice versa. Also, it's easy for me to stick some brochures/posters in the mail and send them to you. Let me know. Susan Parenti sparenti@uiuc.edu The SCHOOL FOR DESIGNING A SOCIETY, in its 14th year, is a project of teachers, performers, composers, and activists. It is an ongoing experiment in making temporary living environments where the question "What would I consider a desirable society?" is given serious playful thinking discussion, and taken as input to creative projects. SUMMER SESSION: June 1-30, 2005 The Gesundheit! Institute Hillsboro, West Virginia FALL SESSION: Sept 6-Dec 9, 2005 Urbana, Illinois WINTER SESSION: Jan 17-March 17, 2006 Urbana, Illinois For more information, visit http://www.designingasociety.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 21:56:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: A Reading in Beacon New York Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Nightboat Books "Pre-Valentine's Day Poetry Bash!" Sina Queyras & Mairead Byrne ChThonic Clash Coffee House 418 Main Street, Beacon, NY, 12508 SUNDAY 2/13/2005, 4 p.m. Call 831-0359 for directions, etc. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 22:00:23 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: The Religious Foundation of Language - Part I Comments: To: Robin Hamilton In-Reply-To: <018201c50f08$08c32950$0d042cd9@Robin> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > From: "Mary Jo Malo" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 11:44 PM > Subject: The Religious Foundation of Language - Part I On 10 Feb 2005 at 0:32, Robin Hamilton wrote: > Utter and total bushshit. > Whaledreck. Oh, come on, Robin -- don't beat around the bush like that. Tell us what you really think. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 22:09:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: More on Steve Kurtz In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit from: Radical Philosophy Patriotism as paranoia Steve Kurtz and the Critical Art Ensemble http://www.radicalphilosophy.com/default.asp? channel_id=2187&editorial_id=16881 ================================================= "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn ================================================= For updates on readings, etc. check my current events page: http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html ================================================= Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 03:25:47 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: The Religious Foundation of Language - Part I MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > On 10 Feb 2005 at 0:32, Robin Hamilton wrote: > > Utter and total bushshit. > > Whaledreck. > > Oh, come on, Robin -- don't beat around the bush like that. Tell us > what you really think. > > Marcus Where do you start? Tomorrow, when I get my head slightly more together, I''ll deconstruct the idiocy from where this runs. For now, I'm off to die. :-( R. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 20:06:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: The SCHOOL FOR DESIGNING A SOCIETY (corrected URL) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "So if, during your day, you see some creatures who you imagine would like to play with language, composition, desire, society---please, = let..." YUK... Should be writ as: "....you see some creatures WHOM you imagine..." =20 Alex=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: mIEKAL aND=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 5:50 PM Subject: The SCHOOL FOR DESIGNING A SOCIETY (corrected URL) We need help finding students, or, finding people who will direct students to check us out. So if, during your day, you see some creatures who you imagine would like to play with language, composition, desire, society---please, let them know of our existence, or vice versa. Also, it's easy for me to stick some brochures/posters in the mail and send them to you. Let me know. Susan Parenti sparenti@uiuc.edu The SCHOOL FOR DESIGNING A SOCIETY, in its 14th year, is a project of teachers, performers, composers, and activists. It is an ongoing experiment in making temporary living environments where the question "What would I consider a desirable society?" is given serious playful thinking discussion, and taken as input to creative projects. SUMMER SESSION: June 1-30, 2005 The Gesundheit! Institute Hillsboro, West Virginia FALL SESSION: Sept 6-Dec 9, 2005 Urbana, Illinois WINTER SESSION: Jan 17-March 17, 2006 Urbana, Illinois For more information, visit http://www.designingasociety.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 00:12:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: all on MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed all on a all an and are as ask at b be bi bow by cap ch chu cut dew dim do e eat end er far fit for go guo han has how i if in ink is it jin k ke kun led li low lu luo man men mu my n nce new not now of old on one or ous out pa pi put qin red s say se sea see shu sky so son sow sun tai the to two un up way wei who yao yin you yu zen idea establish broad tread straight attain attainment attains affairs break speak speaks canal legal royal parallels woman humanity palanquin organs clear separate separation regard reward innards square enlarged salary please pleasing disaster catastrophe treasure great create creates floating negative relatives greatly because exhaustion lamb tomb setbacks husband barbarians rubbing double humble problem bamboo doubting tributary tribute place conceal concealing placed peaceful precepts sincerity fences watch bedchamber butchering pitches teaching touching precious spacious mencius black chicken quickly proclaim circling disclosure inscribe inscription concubine circular obscure bind bird cold food gold good head hold kind lord mind pond reed road tied wild wind word abide shade trade burden garden hidden prudent wonderful wilderness leaders evades predicates predicted soldiers reading sending middle kindnesses wisdom shadow hundred birds goods holds weeds conducting study bare blue case cave duke face fame fire five gate give have hole home huge jade lake life like line live love lute make name nine pine pole pure ripe rise rude sage same take tree type urge were wife spread already stream appearance bureaus notebook speech direction directions edged lined named tiredness agreeing brief chief carefree carefully integrity foreign expel model wheel fidelity excellent develop towels lonely assembles ceremony green women silence urgency ascend attending depends friends phoenix intention sheep accept deception accepts cover elder enter meter never older order other power river ruler steer tower under water intercalary covered undergo imperial experience covering interior superior exterminate determination external internal government emperor interrogative covers others rivers desert observe acres blues comes cries gives homes lines makes moves rites robes rules shoes taxes lonesome forest honest intestines modestly ancestral honesty quiet vegetables vegetation together sometimes benevolence money self prefectures suffer different cliff trifling uniforms confront shift drifting artful confusion profusion dong jing long meng mong tang ting merged dagger danger ginger hedges judges brightness origin dragon disgrace fragrance hungry dregs twigs both each high much path with father gather mother withered gathering withers netherworld orchid within nothing fishscales eight light might right lightly myriad filial alliance reliance satiated deliberate music choice office reticence official illicium vehicle addicted strictly ridiculed agriculture policy beside divide reside residue unyielding ancient anxiety review upright annihilate offiial strike until again begin grain plain business flying giving hiding lining making moving string timing trying stringed feminine beginning beginnings grains skeins stains against disintegration ration furiously script antiques desire stairs praise satisfy polish punished artist assist resist assistant minister magistrates fruit capital capitals meditation meditatively addition position merits lesiurely genius project back bank disk dusk look peak rank seek silk talk weak work shake marked wicked awaken market cooking linking marking darkness books sacks evil fall fill full hall tall toil tool wall well will village exclamatory pillar emulated child field world yield scalding children apple scale neglect reflection analects called sealed implement millet valley public boiling falling ability reality skill small still really galloping gallops follow yellow follows employ bells calls fills meals rolls tools walls built exalted wealth guilty belly early reply calm drum form from plum room stem them warm whom normal animals firmament command climb chamber shame summer chimes examine promises dismiss summit hermits grammatical harmonious harmony cosmos example trample forms roams themselves dawn down huan join mean moon open plan rain then thin upon when emanates signature prince branches principles sound abundant boundary foundation abandon stands alone stone connector scenery chinese harness sadness sheng young change younger changes things evening joining leaning morning think thinking thanks trunks spinning tranquil means utensil utensils transparent chant paint plant maintain mountain printed counties painting planting quantity country chants grants zhao enjoined scholar scholars desolate becomes becoming accomplished throne strong wutong admonished troops arbor honorable subordinate according colorful memorial favors immortals important efforts opportunity across utmost devote remote devotion through announce joyous below allowance allowed deep help reap stop compared compassion grape shape respect compel helper proper properly compete shepherds happiness people purple simple stopping steps wraps happy lacquered conquering four near pear poor year your characters engrave search guard third swordsman adore there where increase feared supremacy supreme extremity express secret carries rearing soaring wearing warrior spirit spirits pearl scarlet learn encroaching bedroom thoroughly surrounded sorrow doors stars years sparse yourself court heart skirts recruit carry query weary alms does ears eyes goes hubs laws loss mats pass reds sets this anisatum abuse cause close false goose house raise caused ceaselessly oneself tassels loosen passes closest fresh marsh passion console person reason lessons prosper prospers grasps abyss grass classical classics blessing blessings blossoms first frost guest trust twist outstanding constellations question chastity prostrate measure measurement colt east heat just left meet post suit test that vast west what cottage contain curtain curtained certainty distant mustard imitate quite state white write protect rooted salted wasteland listen master sister winter matters birth cloth earth faith mouth south tenth truth brother feathers faithful clothing cloths depths truths justice particle particularly writing distinguish glutinous continuous diction emotion sections cautiously wantonly historian rhetoric leftover restraint doctrine destroyed destroys instructions instrument distrust poetry hosts roots texts flattering flatters fortunate fortune virtuous pictures empty piety sheu valuable sexual mutually loquat trouble troubled clouds bequeath issues slaughtering inquire regulated regulates population should album monument autumn accumulation around group accurately nature figured injures flourish returning luxury thousand injustice about reputation minute beautiful beauty servant above drive grave leave heaven leaves serves harvest harvesting service provinces serving provisions survive blow draw grow know view forward answer flowers drawing crown drawn draws flows browse army city easy many obey play they tray very empyrean seize amazed grazes _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 00:15:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: aagain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed aagain heaven earth black yellow is the cosmos are vast a desolate wasteland sun fills moon sets in west it s dusk from to morning constellations line up measure word they spread out cold comes heat goes autumn harvesting winter hiding concealing intercalary timing leftover residue becomes one tenth measurement of years so lu bamboo pitches shift position open clouds ascend galloping sending rain dew forms becoming frost gold gives birth beautiful water jade emanates kun mountain summit double edged dagger furiously named huge gate tower pearl called light darkness treasure fruit plum apple many vegetables mustard ginger sea salted rivers fresh fishscales hidden depths feathers circling above fire dragon emperor teaching phoenix royal official men beginning making writing characters then uniforms wearing robes clothing skirts expel throne yield country yao tang has predicted console people strike down guilty hold boundary talk and test with scalding trying case at court query way bequeath bow doubting sections love raise hosts leaders minister prostrate army barbarians near far reality ration guest returning cries white colt grazes there change covers grass weeds vegetation trust attain myriad directions square covering person issues giving four great five normal respect connector alone rearing children flattering destroys injures women adore chastity unyielding imitate pleasing genius know what passes certainty attainment ability never neglect deception other brief disintegration reliance on self long faith cause should be covered protect your tool utensil desire trouble quantity ink sorrow sadness silk printed stains poetry praise small lamb sheep view scenery lines tied or lined wisdom restraint conquering study makes creates sage benevolence built name stands origin shape proper upright model sky valley proclaim fame empty chamber hall public room learn review lessons carefully disaster catastrophe depends caused by accumulation evil blessings fortune virtuous happiness meter scale ruler bi circular disk hole negative un yin shadow sexual organs feminine secret just emulated compete capital father parallels business affairs supreme speak strictly accurately give filial piety serves as accepts end power others devotion follows rules life face meet confront deep tread put shoes lightly dawn early prosper warm pure like an orchid this fragrance pine prospers river flows not stopping ceaselessly abyss clear transparent take create reflection contain form stop if thinking say diction classical rhetoric quiet peaceful determination deliberate beginnings sincerity fidelity beauty prudent all good ancient laws honorable trade place foundation rolls greatly nothing outstanding service addition work obey government survive means wild pear go increase chant music particularly precious humble rites well valuable low harmony below harmonious husband chants calls upon wife external foreign accept pass instructions enter internal play mother appearance ceremony sister older brother younger same child compared son think very much each elder agreeing mind ch i spirit linking joining branches make friends join divide cut polish precepts kind humanity conceal compassion order separation integrity justice back honesty wicked suffer setbacks loss money still nature evades passion heart moves weary guard truth full intention follow idea steer properly please rank office bind yourself city village flourish summer east two capitals mong luo floating wei according seize jing sheu tray blossoms strong watch look flying amazed drawing painting draw paint birds animals pictures colorful immortals hermits spirits third stem alms cottage abandon drawn beside awaken disclosure first curtain notebook album against answer reply pillar wantonly mats establish drum lute string se blow sheng mouth reed instrument climb stairs high steps cap changes distrust stars right direction through broad interior left attains holds brightness already gathering tomb again assembles group flowers withered tree faithful bells chimes li script servant lacquered write wall lining classics bureaus skeins command together mutually path swordsman scholar state doors sealed eight counties homes allowed for salary thousand soldiers troops tall crown palanquin drive wheel hubs shake tassels world grants allowance luxury wealth harness vehicle quickly policy merits profusion truths engrave monument inscribe inscription artist signature tributary stream that offiial head assistant subordinate sometimes flatters judges under cover home injustice abundant minute who conducting grave marking post prince duke huan regulated fit help weak assist falling leaning figured cloth wraps around han chinese blessing kindnesses speech emotion warrior man population superior does things thoroughly urgency regulates important matters scholars really tranquil jin chu supremacy zhao surrounded placed false road destroyed guo trample alliance interrogative particle how do you abide promises legal principles abuse troubled were punished rise exterminate quite magistrates shepherds employ utmost skill announce might across desert reputation gallops reds blues nine provinces yu marked hundred prefectures qin merged e enlarged ancestral exalted tai meditation zen lord master chief speaks arbor goose purple chicken field bare scarlet walls pond peak stone dong ting lake wilderness spacious distant continuous remote cliff cave dim obscure netherworld rooted regard agriculture devote efforts now sow reap gather harvest begin year carry south mu about acres my artful planting glutinous millet taxes ripe grain tribute new develop reward dismiss mencius meng ke honest simple plain historian grasps straight forward closest doctrine mean middle toil modestly cautiously listen sound observe inquire reason distinguish type them excellent plan urge maintain plant grow examine oneself when ridiculed admonished favors resist extremity house pole danger ous disgrace close shame forest bank marsh will fortunate both sparse shu see opportunity choice separate leave break whom compel led search ask reside nce live silence reticence lonely meditatively calm lonesome seek texts example analects lesiurely loosen anxiety carefree happy project memorial annihilate tiredness exhaustion confusion express thanks joyous recruit canal carries burden experience undergo garden illicium anisatum grape rude draws twigs thin loquat pi pa evening blue green wutong withers old roots twist shade fall leaves drifting wind roams bird moving k n b soaring encroaching touching rubbing red firmament empyrean addicted reading antiques goods books market browse eyes sacks trunks easy trifling feared because have ears enjoined fences hedges implement tools utensils meals eat food suit fill satisfy intestines belly innards until satiated cooking boiling slaughtering butchering hungry themselves dregs grains poor relatives young different provisions concubine imperial accomplished spinning attending serving towels cloths within curtained bedroom woman bedchamber stringed wonderful question problem grammatical predicates er helper where exclamatory _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 00:16:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: after my death, i have been thinking about this writing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed after my death, i have been thinking about this writing you would notice my death as an afterthought, peripheral topos; or rather, you wouldn't notice it at all. it would emerge, slowly, out of the mud into consciousness; someone else might say something, might send an obit, and that would serve as the fulcrum or divisor of event and time. but not for you, and for me only in the past anterior, as if i might have noticed what i could not during and after the fact, the passage. it would change everything, this writing, the speaking and speaker of this writing, and of other writings that pass through my name, and through the names of others speaking my name, perhaps borrowing it in an area in which no return is possible. the writing, the writing plural, writings, would become remnants, signs of a life, symptomologies for interpretation, and interpretations which i could never answer, which would remain in other discursive strata, back and forth, without my author/ity and for that matter, sourceless, something that may be a matter of pride for the interpreters, a dissection table perhaps. the writing, all this oozing about death, this reiteration, inconceivable recuperation, would become uncanny, unheimlich, stateless, as if it were once again replete with the fecundity of speech, a paradox. in my absence, in the absence of my jarring personality, it would be recognized for what it is, a continuous meditation by the reader as much as by the writer, something ongoing, something freed from my personality. in this freeing the words would speak, as if my magic. they would be heard and seen for what they are: literature, philosophy, psychology. one might be heard to say, i knew him when, but that knowledge is of a shell, would be of a shell, and would be a shell. recognition would surely come, recognition of speaking and writing as an afterthought, recognition of a stranger behind one on the street, you can sense his eyes. the death would be forgotten in the reading of the writing, for what would remain would be just that, the reading, nothing more, nothing less, and the fluidity of a writing now always vulnerable, always on the verge of disappearance. but there would remain this sensation, one might sense it as a shuddering, the interpretation would come later, and would require work. the shuddering would submerge in everyday life among the living of men and women still alive. the shuddering would later bring the writing to the foreground for you and newer readers and readers born after the time in which i died. you would know all of this, reading the writing i have written, after the death, after i am no longer writing, at least writing in the ordinary sense. you would write what you know. _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 00:28:07 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Message from TALISMAN MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 02/09/05 5:04:34 AM, richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ writes: > Murat Et Al >=20 > I only=A0 sub to one mag in NZ=A0 (BRIEF ) - not (ony) because I am in it=20= !! > Actually I have every copy since it was started by Alan Loney..and I wasn'= t > published in it until a year or so ago - but I was looking to sub to one > overseas mag=A0 - if i can afford (postage costs are te problem here in Ne= w > Zealand) - I liked Fence (what I loved most were reading what all the > contributors read - I am, a person who if i get abook I want to know > everything possible about the author ( I read -and re-read the blurbs and > keep looking at the author's picture and wondering about them, what they a= re > doing now, how they died,=A0 how thery are living, if they were/are happy, > etc etc - in fact I find it slows my reading I often get a few pages into=20= a > book and if i dont find reference that sends me to another book - I read u= p > on the author=A0 - so I have a huge lot of unfinished books - read in > fragments -lol)=A0 - incredible the range of things poeple are interested=20= in - > and some great poetry (in Fence) - but couldn't afford it anymore - I > remember Talisman - recall reading some intereting stuff in that - and the= re > are so many mags - even with "innovative" sytuff -of course you will > recommend your mag but there is Nick Piombinos one - I would to get some > ideas=A0 - Sulphur was good but maybe not quite=A0 - the journal of post m= odern > poetics - I think is the one I enjoy when I see it - there=A0 are others - > also there are obviously ones in Britain , Australia, Canada etc > Maybe I will just have to look at them online - something about getting > something in the mail -like getting a present.. >=20 > [Thinking=A0 of Britain - Lawrence (Pinter is a great playwrite and courag= eous > in his opinions) - I haven't forgotten you - I still intend to buy at leas= t > one of your books (will google etc)=A0 - I _do_ buy books eg i bought nick > piombinos book from the US and some lit crit things - also poeple remember= I > am ASPECT BOOKS on www.abebooks.com=A0 - but only a small fish=A0 - gradua= lly > getting some interesting stock I dont want! Also have a lot of stuff > unprocessed as yet...] >=20 > What are the "cutting edge" mags in the US, Canada, Aussie etc - or is onl= y > neccesary to read Alan Sondhiem and Steve etc?=A0 and Ron Siliman's Blog e= tc? > (jiving)=A0 ?? >=20 > Dont just push _your mag _ although of course=A0 _your_ mag (whoever you > are) - could well be "just the ticket" >=20 > yours interestedly and madly - The Mad Kiwi=A0 - aka >=20 > Richard Taylor >=20 > richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz >=20 > Poet / Chess Addict/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: >=20 > ----------------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice > cream."------------------ >=20 > Aspect Books > (N.Z.) on www.abebooks.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 8:12 PM > Subject: Message from TALISMAN >=20 >=20 > The special double issue of "Talisman: A Journal of Contemporary Poetry > and Poetics" (#28-29; Winter 2005) is published this week. It includes > important new works by Donna de la Perriere, Joseph Donahue, Kathleen > Fraser, Forrest Gander, Michael Heller, John High, Robert Kelly, > Timothy Liu, Nathaniel Mackey, Alice Notley, Maureen Owen, Simon > Pettet, Leslie Scalapino, Leonard Schwartz, David Shapiro, Aaron > Shurin, Eleni Sikelianos, Gustaf Sobin, Nathaniel Tarn, Lewis Warsh, > and John Yau. Essays and reviews include Boris Pintar's preface to > "Castration Machines"; Aram Saroyan's "From Russia, with Love"; Thomas > Fink on Robert Creeley, Timothy Liu, and Sheila E. Murphy; Norman > Fischer on Hank Lazar and Michael Rothenberg; Vernon Frazer on David > Meltzer; Brian Henry on Graham Foust; Bruce Holsapple on Michael > Rothenberg; Endres Kay on Brane Mozetic; Hank Lazar on John Taggart; > Rusty Morrison on Christine Hume; Christopher Sawyer-Lau=E7anno on > Gloria Gervitz; Maxine Warnock on Gian Lombardo; and Andrew Zawacki on > Kate Fagan. Copies at $15 can be ordered through SPD or directly from > the publisher, Talisman House, PO Box 3157, Jersey City, NJ 07303-3157. >=20 >=20 > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 >=20 Richard, I was forwarding a message because Ed Foster, the editor of Talisman, could=20 not do so due to a temporary problem in his university's e-mailing system.=20 Though I have been an admirer of Talisman and Ed Foster as a poet, as a publ= isher=20 and as a human being- for years, I am not even in the upcoming issue. Ciao. Murat=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 05:40:01 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: The SCHOOL FOR DESIGNING A SOCIETY (corrected URL) Comments: To: alexander saliby In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > "So if, during your day, you see some creatures who you imagine would > like to play with language, composition, desire, society---please, > let..." > On 9 Feb 2005 at 20:06, alexander saliby wrote: > YUK... > Should be writ as: "....you see some creatures WHOM you imagine..." Why? Isn't they just playing with language? M ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 05:50:36 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: The Religious Foundation of Language - Part I Comments: To: Russell Golata In-Reply-To: <004401c50f0c$469018c0$e96b4b0c@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 9 Feb 2005 at 20:03, Russell Golata wrote: > A book that investigates the Numerical configuration of the old and > new testaments is called Theomatics-Don't remember the author. It > states that Man couldn't write these books -because every line where > God is mentioned God appears on the 8th syllable.... Yeah, "iamb that iamb". Or, possibly, "iamb what iamb and that's all that iamb". M ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 08:39:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Jimmy Smith... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable B-3 perc ussion control the circuit that drawbar switch Mr. Smith-- leave us with that leaner tone --Gerald Schwartz ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 08:57:15 -0500 Reply-To: Ron Henry Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Henry Subject: Re: ERATIO SMEARED In-Reply-To: <420a793c.4bcb0ad2.36b9.3525SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 15:57:21 -0500, St. Thomasino wrote: > ERATIO SMEARED > > This "review" just up at Web Del Sol, by Tim McGrath: > > "Eratio Postmodern Poetry =A0 ://=A0 View | Rating: > Eratio offers up incomprehensible postmodern fodder for critics of=20 > postmodern incomprehensibility. ... Link for the curious: http://webdelsol.com/PortalDelSol/#eratio Gregory: You're aware, I hope, that the executive poetry editor of the whole WebDelSol thang is Joan Houlihan, locus of so much controversy on this list for her attacks (in a different section of that same site) on Language and avant/post-avant poetries? So I wouldn't feel too bad about it. A bad review from the league of the narrow-minded may well be a solid compliment (Eratio taking a bullet in the poetry culture wars?) Their review of _Fence_ ("a change of staff is highly recommended") is similarly ad hominem. Besides, I see in their review of _Salt Hill_ that they don't know the difference between "its" and "it's", which tells you something about the calibre of the reviewer(s). -- Ron Henry AUGHT #13 now out http://people2.clarityconnect.com/webpages6/ronhenry/aught.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 09:04:22 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: The religious foundation of language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Firstly, let me apologize for the poor quality of the T. Cruz quoted text =20 which renders it difficult to read. I have yet to master the copy and paste=20= =20 technique from one format to another. Even after carefully going through all= the =20 punctuation and character adjustments, it still appears as garbage with =20 unexpected spaces and line shifts. Secondly, I should have called the subjec= t: =20 quantum, religious and poetic nature of language. =20 From what I understand of the proposed theory, written language evolved upo= n=20 either an intended or accidental understanding of quantum level rhythm and =20 future probabilities. Furthermore he suggests that written language could ha= ve =20 developed during an intense religious subversion of human thought, with the=20= =20 language itself (character and rhythmic placement) being intentionally=20 expressed as code. This code was permanently implanted in language for a nu= mber of =20 purposes, but the primary result is that it has lasted so very long.=20 =20 I have always been an advocate of Robert Graves=E2=80=99 language theory sin= ce it is=20 poetic. Whether he and Laura Riding developed it together or separately is =20 not as important to me as its import. I agree with Graves, and what I =20 understand of the Cruz theory is that language reflects both our biological=20= and =20 intellectual proclivity towards symbolism AND rhythm. Also, Cruz was offerin= g a =20 portion of his theory in a quasi-existentialist discussion group which is =20 interdisciplinary, incorporating literature, phenomenology (scientific and =20 philosophical) and atheism. He said that despite the fact that language may=20= have at=20 its foundation a religious agenda does not prove the existence of god. He =20 said that the founders of such a language were aware of a technique which =20 appeared powerful & mystical, a sleight of hand. Rhythm is intrinsic to eve= rything=20 so poetry and language would have this ubiquitous component. =20 Now please, disagree with the theory in a manner that befits and implies =20 intelligence and comprehension of at least one of the disciplines comprising= the =20 theory. Perhaps, poetry? There are many extant language theories, but this=20= =20 one is unique. Like I said, Graves (a poet, remember?) suggested a simpler =20 version which did not include quantum physics. He was not a great poet, but=20= he =20 understood language and its intent far better than those who abuse it so =20 regularly.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 09:16:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek White Subject: Re: ERATIO SMEARED MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gregory, I don't know about the others, but in my eyes all this reflects on is the integrity of Web Del Sol. Derek White ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 15:57:21 -0500 From: "St. Thomasino" Subject: ERATIO SMEARED ERATIO SMEARED This "review" just up at Web Del Sol, by Tim McGrath: "Eratio Postmodern Poetry =A0 ://=A0 View | Rating: Eratio offers up incomprehensible postmodern fodder for critics of=20 postmodern incomprehensibility. Good luck finding anything=20 intentionally; look for links and find a blog, look for poetry and find=20= quotations. And when you realize that Eratio's editor, Gregory Vincent=20= St. Thomasino (whose name suggests either a pseudonymously guarded=20 narcissist or the tragi-comic hero of a Wes Anderson film) has included=20= his own embarrassing asseverations ("Discourse is like a river" is his=20= unqualified and deplorably facile, but apparently quotable, simile)=20 along with the words of Nietszche, Plato, and Jung, you'll start=20 wondering whether this postmodern experiment is, in fact, a postmodern=20= parody. On the same page, alongside the luminous Lord Duke G.V. St.=20 Thomasino, Diane Wakoski is quoted as saying, "I feel that poetry is=20 the completely personal expression of someone about his feelings and=20 reactions to the world. I think it is only interesting in proportion to=20= how interesting the person who writes it is." By Wakoski's logic, the=20 people who bring you Eratio are not very interesting at all." Friends, as contributors to eratio postmodern poetry, you should=20 proudly count yourselves among some of the most talented and=20 influential writers and artists on the scene today. As editor of the=20 site, I can honestly say that many of the works submitted for eratio=20 simply do not make the cut (and I'm sorry if I've rejected your work,=20 Mr. McGrath, but there's always the welcome to send again).=A0 I try to=20= be fair when making these judgments, because I know what it means to=20 put your heart into something (especially something like poetry), and=20 how it feels to be rejected. Eratio is a labor of love, since it generates no revenue for me (but=20 rather costs me time and energy and money). Each issue requires months=20= of work, involving coding, design, correspondence, planning, and an=20 immeasurable amount of frustration. Ultimately, it's very gratifying --=20= but I cannot say it's fun. Still, I am proud to publish your work and hope that its presence at=20 eratio gives you some exposure and some degree of satisfaction that you=20= otherwise would not have had, and gives you some encouragement to=20 continue being a poet in an economy that doesn't much care about you. I do not know Tim McGrath. But if you read him closely you'll see that=20= this is nothing more than a personal attack on me (based on his dislike=20= of my name!). I am distressed because none of the poetry or artworks=20 are mentioned, and in fact I do not believe Mr. McGrath even bothered=20 to read or look at any of it. (But can he, indeed, talk about the=20 poetry, or the content of the page, or the logic of the concept, I=20 wonder? Why the subterfuge of fixating on my name? No one of any real=20 insight or wit would do that -- unless he were inclined to burlesque.) As a poet and a critic, I take great care to explicate my reasons for=20 "liking" or "disliking" something. More importantly, I consider it my=20 responsibility to try to place a work into context, to appreciate what=20= it is the poet is trying to achieve, and to assess whether this has=20 been accomplished (and sometimes I offer alternatives, but I never=20 ridicule and I am never disrespectful, and I always manage to point out=20= a poet's successes). There are several reviews in the current issue=20 that I took great care in writing, I hope you'll see them for yourself=20= now that the issue is up. Reading Tim McGrath's personal attack (on my name, for Pete's sake!) is=20= an example of something a poet or a critic should never do. Mr. McGrath=20= has latched on to my name as something that irritates him a great deal,=20= and in the process has ignored your work and mine. Why does Mr. McGrath=20= dislike me personally? Could it be that this is payback? (Or else:=20 What's "pseudonymously guarded" about it? What's "narcissist" about it?=20= I will, however, accept that being a Roman Catholic name it is somewhat=20= "tragi-comic.") Mr. McGrath's tone -- glib, cynical, condescending, and uninformed and=20= lacking of the requisite vocabulary to comprehend let alone explicate=20 or set a value upon "the postmodern" -- is indicative not only of Web=20 Del Sol but of the "unlettered lad" generally. I do not know why Web=20 Del Sol has adopted this attack mentality toward anything to do with=20 "the postmodern," but for sure it is the creativity of resentment. Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com http://eratio.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 10:10:35 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Re: The religious foundation of language Comments: To: marcus@designerglass.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marcus, People who still use the word "postmodernists" aren't. Call me on the carpet. It's better than never having an original thought or philosophizing about poetry instead of writing it. And whatever whale dreck is, sperm or shit, at least it's organic, waste product, a sign of something that's living. Cognition and language are the latest and greatest in the evolutionary history of our species, but you gotta get a grip to produce even a spoonful. On 10 Feb 2005 at 9:04, Mary Jo Malo wrote: >From what I understand of the proposed theory, written language >evolved upon ...< Evolved upon? If you can't do better than that, you're likely to get called on the carpet by the other postmodernists who object to "it's" for "its"! > either an intended or accidental understanding of quantum level rhythm > and future probabilities. Furthermore he suggests that written > language could have developed during an intense religious subversion > of human thought, with the language itself (character and rhythmic > placement) being intentionally expressed as code. This code was > permanently implanted in language for a number of purposes, but the > primary result is that it has lasted so very long. It's still whale dreck. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 07:22:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Francis Raven Subject: Notice - Poems of Wax and Waiting In-Reply-To: <1b9.ceed457.2f3cd36b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Just a quick notice of my digital chapbook "Poems of Wax and Waiting" at Trifecta Press. The poems are about wax. (A couple are about waiting.) They are located online at: http://www.trifectapress.com/html/textual/books/wax/1.html Thanks Francis ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 09:33:04 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: The religious foundation of language In-Reply-To: <1b9.ceed457.2f3cd36b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i don't want to get into this debate, but "philosophizing about poetry" is a form of writing poetry. At 10:10 AM -0500 2/10/05, Mary Jo Malo wrote: >Marcus, > >People who still use the word "postmodernists" aren't. Call me on the >carpet. It's better than never having an original thought or >philosophizing about >poetry instead of writing it. And whatever whale dreck is, sperm or shit, at >least it's organic, waste product, a sign of something that's living. >Cognition and language are the latest and greatest in the >evolutionary history of our >species, but you gotta get a grip to produce even a spoonful. > >On 10 Feb 2005 at 9:04, Mary Jo Malo wrote: >>From what I understand of the proposed theory, written language >>evolved upon ...< > >Evolved upon? If you can't do better than that, you're likely to get >called on the carpet by the other postmodernists who object to "it's" >for "its"! > >> either an intended or accidental understanding of quantum level rhythm >> and future probabilities. Furthermore he suggests that written >> language could have developed during an intense religious subversion >> of human thought, with the language itself (character and rhythmic >> placement) being intentionally expressed as code. This code was >> permanently implanted in language for a number of purposes, but the > > primary result is that it has lasted so very long. > >It's still whale dreck. > >Marcus -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 10:41:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: ERATIO SMEARED Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Gregory & Ron: Indeed, all of us who have felt, and will continue to suffer the searing flames of the thought police witch burners should wear our wounds proudly! Write on... Nick P. >> ERATIO SMEARED >> >> This "review" just up at Web Del Sol, by Tim McGrath: >> >> "Eratio Postmodern Poetry =A0 ://=A0 View | Rating: >> Eratio offers up incomprehensible postmodern fodder for critics of=20 >> postmodern incomprehensibility. ... > > Link for the curious: http://webdelsol.com/PortalDelSol/#eratio > > Gregory: You're aware, I hope, that the executive poetry editor of the > whole WebDelSol thang is Joan Houlihan, locus of so much controversy > on this list for her attacks (in a different section of that same > site) on Language and avant/post-avant poetries? > > So I wouldn't feel too bad about it. A bad review from the league of > the narrow-minded may well be a solid compliment (Eratio taking a > bullet in the poetry culture wars?) Their review of _Fence_ ("a > change of staff is highly recommended") is similarly ad hominem. > > Besides, I see in their review of _Salt Hill_ that they don't know the > difference between "its" and "it's", which tells you something about > the calibre of the reviewer(s). > > -- > Ron Henry > AUGHT #13 now out > http://people2.clarityconnect.com/webpages6/ronhenry/aught.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 11:31:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Shankar, Ravi (English)" Subject: Connecticut Writing Conference - Accepting Proposals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Announcing the CSU Biennial Writing Conference, hosted on Saturday, = April 30th, 2005, on the campus of Central Connecticut State University = in New Britain, CT. This conference will encompass the faculty and = students from the four CT state schools (Central, Eastern, Southern, = Western), as well as poets and prose writers from area institutions = (Yale, Trinity, University of Hartford, St. Joseph's and University of = New Haven). This theme of the conference is "Craft and Modalities," = which we define broadly and apply to the genres of fiction, non-fiction, = poetry, drama and multimedia writing. Writers interested in = participating in the conference should email Ravi Shankar at = with any ideas for panels or readings, brief bio, = and a sample of creative work. The conference will be free and open to = the public, and a limited amount of stipends will be available to help = defray the expenses of invited participants. =20 ***************=20 Ravi Shankar=20 Poet-in-Residence=20 Assistant Professor=20 CCSU - English Dept.=20 860-832-2766=20 shankarr@ccsu.edu=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 16:31:19 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Roger Day Subject: Re: The Religious Foundation of Language - Part I MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "We really do not know what rhythmic patterns of letters can do rolling around in a human readers mind" Ah, but we might get a toehold in the problem if we put Subject A in a PET scanner (http://www.triumf.ca/welcome/petscan.html) and got them to recite Hiawatha. If you chucked enough money at it, you'd get a 3D cartoon extravaganza with Bugs Bunnie for free! Admittedly granularity might not what you want, but I bet it would be a good starter for 10. In fact, there be quite a few issues which could be dealt with in the same way. Saves all that voodoo stuff with the math. Roger ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 12:22:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Re: The religious foundation of language In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit "The endlessly elaborating poem Displays the theory of poetry, As the life of poetry. A more severe More harassing master would extemporize Subtler, more urgent proof that the theory Of poetry is the theory of life..." Wallace Stevens On 2/10/05 10:33 AM, "Maria Damon" wrote: > i don't want to get into this debate, but "philosophizing about > poetry" is a form of writing poetry. > > At 10:10 AM -0500 2/10/05, Mary Jo Malo wrote: >> Marcus, >> >> People who still use the word "postmodernists" aren't. Call me on the >> carpet. It's better than never having an original thought or >> philosophizing about >> poetry instead of writing it. And whatever whale dreck is, sperm or shit, at >> least it's organic, waste product, a sign of something that's living. >> Cognition and language are the latest and greatest in the >> evolutionary history of our >> species, but you gotta get a grip to produce even a spoonful. >> >> On 10 Feb 2005 at 9:04, Mary Jo Malo wrote: >>> From what I understand of the proposed theory, written language >>> evolved upon ...< >> >> Evolved upon? If you can't do better than that, you're likely to get >> called on the carpet by the other postmodernists who object to "it's" >> for "its"! >> >>> either an intended or accidental understanding of quantum level rhythm >>> and future probabilities. Furthermore he suggests that written >>> language could have developed during an intense religious subversion >>> of human thought, with the language itself (character and rhythmic >>> placement) being intentionally expressed as code. This code was >>> permanently implanted in language for a number of purposes, but the >>> primary result is that it has lasted so very long. >> >> It's still whale dreck. >> >> Marcus > > > -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 13:38:58 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: ERATIO SMEARED MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been both accepted and rejected by eratio. No problem. That goes with the territory. Gregory, you offer a fine online publication. Keep up the good work, and ignore the shits. Best, Bill ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 11:32:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Fwd: Re: ERATIO SMEARED - further grammatical divagation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I meant this to go the list, not just to Ron Henry. And, truly, Gregory and Ron, don't let the bastards get you down! Robert Robert Corbett wrote: Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 09:56:31 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: ERATIO SMEARED - further grammatical divagation To: Ron Henry "Good luck finding anything intentionally"?!? Pray, what could the writer have possibly meant by this sentence? That the reader has no will before the texts of eratio? That the writers do everything at random? Silly new critic! The reviewer seems not to know that intentionality is an affect of language and an affect that even the most random texts still have. Though I admit not being able to discern intentionality in the above phrase. I'm afraid eratio must have gone over their heads and so the whines of the entitled begin. Robert Ron Henry wrote: On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 15:57:21 -0500, St. Thomasino wrote: > ERATIO SMEARED > > This "review" just up at Web Del Sol, by Tim McGrath: > > "Eratio Postmodern Poetry =A0 ://=A0 View | Rating: > Eratio offers up incomprehensible postmodern fodder for critics of=20 > postmodern incomprehensibility. ... Link for the curious: http://webdelsol.com/PortalDelSol/#eratio Gregory: You're aware, I hope, that the executive poetry editor of the whole WebDelSol thang is Joan Houlihan, locus of so much controversy on this list for her attacks (in a different section of that same site) on Language and avant/post-avant poetries? So I wouldn't feel too bad about it. A bad review from the league of the narrow-minded may well be a solid compliment (Eratio taking a bullet in the poetry culture wars?) Their review of _Fence_ ("a change of staff is highly recommended") is similarly ad hominem. Besides, I see in their review of _Salt Hill_ that they don't know the difference between "its" and "it's", which tells you something about the calibre of the reviewer(s). -- Ron Henry AUGHT #13 now out http://people2.clarityconnect.com/webpages6/ronhenry/aught.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 14:50:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Reading at Medicine Show Anne Valley-Fox & Gretchen Mattox MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Suzi Winson and Medicine Show present: ANNE VALLEY-FOX & GRETCHEN MATTOX=20 reading from their new books * =20 @ WORD/PLAY=20 Medicine Show's 21st Annual Reading Series Artistic excellence in a theatre setting Sunday, February 27th, 3pm poetry $6. champagne $0. for more information call 212.262.4216 Medicine Show 549 West 52nd st. (bet. 10th & 11th ), 3rd fl NYC 10019 *Point of No Return by Anne Valley-Fox and Buddha Box by Gretchen Mattox will be available for purchase Brought to you by Medicine Show Theatre and Fish Drum Inc. Partially funded by the New York State Council on the Arts. ___________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 12:02:57 -0800 Reply-To: bowering@sfu.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Satirical Poetry? Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary MIME-Version: 1.0 A lot of Frank Davey's poems are satirical. His "Little Bird" sequence, for example. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 16:26:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Shankar, Ravi (English)" Subject: Re: Satirical Poetry? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Had my class read the interview with Dorn at = , which is sharp and meandering and = an absolute riot. Here are two of my favorite excerpts from it:=20 The whole readership of anything has been so inflated. What we call = literacy now actually is just those things--if you get, say, some = washing up liquid, it's got a picture of a lemon on it, meaning it's got = that fragrance. If you know enough that that's not salad dressing = because of the lemon picture on there, then you're literate. That's ALL = it means. That's all literacy now means. And if you put that on salad, = then you're illiterate. I like craft, but when you only concentrate on craft like that, it's = hideous: like link sausages. -RS=20 ***************=20 Ravi Shankar=20 Poet-in-Residence=20 Assistant Professor=20 CCSU - English Dept.=20 860-832-2766=20 shankarr@ccsu.edu=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 15:29:08 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: need a bit of quickbooks help Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If anyone has experience tracking subscriptions with QuickBooks can you please backchannel me. Any advice appreciated. ~mIEKAL ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 16:50:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Events at the Poetry Project 2/11-2/16 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Friday, February 11, 10:00 pm Fall Workshop Reading Participants in the five Fall Writing Workshops of Larry Fagin, Janet Hamill, Rachel Levitsky, Oz Shelach, and Edwin Torres will read from their work.=20 Monday, February 14, 8:00 pm ***Valentine=B9s Day Spectacles*** Bent just slightly on Valentine=B9s Day, dazzling romantics and else fans wil= l be: writer Gary Lutz, author of Stories in the Worst Way and I Looked Alive (who Ben Marcus pronounced =B3the new sad man of contemporary fiction=B2); experimental theatrics/art installation by Ugly Duckling Presse/ Loudmouth Collective (www.loudmouthcollective.com); and, performing as she does, a gu= n of beauty incarnate, singer-songwriter Rebecca Moore and her band, Prevention of Blindness (www.bluviolin.com). This is spectacle=8Bthen there=B9s PARTY! Cake, food, wine, and red d=E9cor should make for a grand time=8Aas The Daily Mail put it to the Lord Chamberlain, =B3It=B9s going to cause some headaches.=B2=20 Wednesday, February 16, 8:00 pm Bruce Andrews & David Meltzer Bruce Andrews is the author of over two dozen books of poetry and performance scores, most recently Lip Service and The Millennium Project (online at www.princeton.edu/eclipse). His essays on poetics are collected in Paradise & Method and are also online at the Electronic Poetry Center. H= e is Music Director for Sally Silvers & Dancers, and teaches Politics at Fordham University. David Meltzer=B9s most recent book of poetry is Beat Thin= g (La Alameda Press, 2004). He is the editor and interviewer for San Francisc= o Beat: Talking with the Poets (City Lights, 2001). He teaches in the graduat= e Poetics program at New College of California, as well as in their undergraduate Humanities program. With Steve Dickison, he co-edits Shuffle Boil, a magazine devoted to music in all its appearances and disappearances= . His selected poems, David=B9s Copy, will be published in 2005 by Viking/Penguin.=20 WRITING WORKSHOPS AT THE POETRY PROJECT KEEPING IT SIMPLE/LOOKING FOR THE LIGHT =AD PATRICIA SPEARS JONES TUESDAYS AT 7 PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 22ND "The quality of light by which we scrutinize our lives has direct bearing upon the product which we live...It is within this light that we form those ideas by which we pursue our magic and make it realized. This is poetry as illumination." =AD from =B3Poetry is Not a Luxury=B2 by Audre Lorde. =B3This is a poetry workshop that takes the poetry of illumination to mean the poetry of experience. How we scrutinize, how we elucidate our lives through words and rhythms, how we make our poems bring new ways of thinking about our lives. We will focus on the basics: line, stanza, cadence, meter, diction, syntax, and point of view -=AD the elements that make a poem. We will also read contemporary poets including Audre Lorde, Maureen Owen, Amy Gerstler, Shara= n Strange, Lee Young Lee, Jeanne Marie Beaumont, Frank O'Hara, Lorenzo Thomas= , and Bob Kaufman.=B2 Patricia Spears Jones is an award-winning poet and playwright, and author of The Weather That Kills. Students must submit 5-10 pg. work samples by FEB. 14. FINDING THE & THEN SOME THERE THERE =AD MERRY FORTUNE THURSDAYS at 7 PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 24TH Film of Dreyer, writing of Mayer, painting of Traylor. An identifiable poet =B3voice=B2 is a desirable, comfortable and utilitarian achievement. But what potential or beautiful mystery lurks beyond carefully cultivated form, tendency, technique, habit and boundary. Exploring the processes, qualities and aesthetics of all art forms we will collectively discover commonalities= , and fearlessly apprehend what we may learn to expand our poetic values and vocabularies as well as our very minds. Merry Fortune is the author of Ghosts By Albert Ayler, Ghosts By Albert Ayler (Futurepoem). HYPNOSIS AND CREATIVITY =AD MAGGIE DUBRIS FRIDAYS AT 7 PM: 5 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 25TH =B3Hypnotic and trance states have been used for centuries by shamans, mystic= s and visionaries. In this five week workshop, we will study techniques for self-hypnosis that allow a writer to easily access the creative flow state. We will explore the use of hypnotic tools to generate images, to increase creative focus, to switch gears from a day job into writing, and to circumvent creative blocks. We will also discuss the use of hypnosis to vividly recall memories, and its use in conjunction with other creative tools such as automatic writing.=B2 A $20 materials fee covers four of Dubris=B9s hypnosis CDs, three of which are specifically geared to writing. Maggie Dubris is the author of Skels (Soft Skull Press 2004), and Weep Not, My Wanton (Black Sparrow Press 2002). She is also employed as a professiona= l hypnotist.=20 POETRY AND MUSIC =AD DREW GARDNER FRIDAYS at 7 PM: 5 SESSIONS BEGIN APRIL 8TH =B3A workshop investigating the relation of music and poetry, comparing the languages of poetry and music and asking questions about how they can be combined and how they might illuminate each other. What are the poetic implications of improvisation? What are the musical implications of everyda= y speech? What does our experience of poetry imply about how we experience sound and how does our listening affect our writing? We will read and liste= n to Harry Partch, Morton Feldman, Leo Smith, Pauline Oliveros, Thoreau, Nathaniel Mackey and others, keep listening notebooks and collaborate with guest musicians. No musical background required.=B2 Drew Gardner is the autho= r of Sugar Pill (Krupskaya) and conducts the Poetics Orchestra, an ensemble featuring poetry and structured improvisation. A LAB: POST-CONCEPTUAL POETRIES =AD ROBERT FITTERMAN SATURDAYS AT 12PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 26 =B3What happens when we ask ourselves not if the poem =B3could have been done better, but whether it could have been done otherwise=B2 (Dworkin). In post-conceptual writing, the expression is realized in the process. This workshop will be a hands-on writing lab. Each week we will write poems in-class generated by borrowed models from contemporary, 21st Century poetry. Some of these experiments might include: sampling, bastardization, procedural writing, mixed media, collaboration, etc.=B2 Robert Fitterman is the author of 9 books of poetry including: Metropolis XXX (Edge Books), Metropolis 16-29 (Coach House Press) and Metropolis 1-15 (Sun & Moon Press)= . The workshop fee is $300, which includes a one-year individual Poetry Project membership and tuition for any and all fall and spring classes. Reservations are required due to limited class space and payment must be received in advance. Please send payment and reservations to: The Poetry Project, St. Mark=B9s Church, 131 E. 10th St., NY, NY 10003. For more information please call (212) 674-0910 or e-mail info@poetryproject.com. We do accept payment via credit cards. You can either submit $ at www.paypal.com, or call the office with your number: 212-674-0910. Thanks! The WINTER CALENDAR (FEB/MAR NOW UP!): http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 16:07:37 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Fwd: (Please fwd to grad, core, and affiliates) Fwd: Smithsonian Center for Latino Initiatives (SCLI)Information 2005 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >X-From_: amstdy@umn.edu Thu Feb 10 15:28:03 2005 >X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] mtaout-w.tc.umn.edu [160.94.160.21] #+LO+NM >X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] x94-64-23.ej1040.umn.edu [160.94.64.23] #+LO+TS+AU+HN >Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 15:27:53 -0600 >To: (Recipient list suppressed) >From: American Studies >Subject: Fwd: (Please fwd to grad, core, and affiliates) Fwd: > Smithsonian Center for Latino Initiatives (SCLI)Information 2005 > > >>X-From_: fergu033@umn.edu Thu Feb 10 15:23:09 2005 >>X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] mtaout-m.tc.umn.edu [160.94.23.21] #+LO+NM >>X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] x94-64-29.ej1040.umn.edu [160.94.64.29] #+LO+TS+AU+HN >>To: American Studies >>From: Roderick A. Ferguson >>Subject: (Please fwd to grad, core, and affiliates) Fwd: >>Smithsonian Center for Latino Initiatives (SCLI)Information 2005 >>Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 15:23:54 -0800 >>X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) >> >> >> >>Begin forwarded message: >> >>>From: Michael Duenes >>>Date: February 10, 2005 11:35:18 AM PST >>>To: Derek Maness , Roderick A. Ferguson >>>, Louis Mendoza >>>Cc: SooJin Pate , Fernando Aguirre-McKibbin >>> >>>Subject: Smithsonian Center for Latino Initiatives (SCLI)Information 2005 >>> >>>please pass this on, michael >>> >>>Begin forwarded message: >>> >>>>From: louis desipio >>>>Date: February 10, 2005 1:07:35 PM CST >>>>To: LATINO-C@listserv.ilstu.edu >>>>Subject: Fwd: Smithsonian Center for Latino Initiatives >>>>(SCLI)Information 2005 >>>>Reply-To: "Latino-C: Latino Caucus of APSA" >>>> >>>>******************************************************************** >>>> >>> >>> >>>>SCLI is seeking your assistance in identifying qualified candidates >>>> >>> >>> >>>>for the 2005 SIIRLC program. Printable PDF file is attached. >>>> >>> >>> >>>>*********************************************************** >>>> >>>>Each year the Smithsonian Center for Latino Initiatives (SCLI) >>>>competitively >>>>selects 15 graduate students and mid-career museum professionals to >>>>participate in the Smithsonian Institute for the Interpretation and >>>>Representation of Latino Cultures (SIIRLC). As part of a growing and >>>>dynamic network of professionals working within the field of >>>>Latino arts and >>>>culture, SCLI is seeking your assistance in identifying qualified >>>>candidates >>>>for the 2005 SIIRLC program. >>>> >>>>SIIRLC participants interact with seminar faculty, scholars, researchers, >>>>and curators to generate discussion and new knowledge on the interpretation >>>>and representation of Latino cultures in museums, research centers, and >>>>cultural and performing arts institutions throughout the country. SIIRLC >>>>helps selected participants enhance their leadership, research and creative >>>>skills through a series of workshops and practical experiences at the >>>>Smithsonian and other research facilities within the Washington, D.C. >>>>metropolitan area. >>>> >>>>This year we will be hosting SIIRLC from June 20 - July 1 and July 5-July >>>>15, 2005. Enclosed you will find a printable PDF file which gives more >>>>details on this four-week program and how to apply. Participants pay no >>>>registration fee, and round-trip airfare and lodging is provided for >>>>successful applicants. >>>> >>>>Please distribute this email and PDF among interested individuals within >>>>your networks. For any questions or comments about SIIRLC, please contact >>>>202-633-1240 or via email at latinoconference@si.edu >>>> >>>>Thank you. >>>> >>>> >>>>Luben Montoya >>>>Acting Director >>>> >>
>>
>>
>> >> >> >>Roderick A. Ferguson >>Associate Professor >>Department of American Studies >>College of Liberal Arts >>104 Scott Hall >>72 Pleasant St SE >>Minneapolis MN 55455 >>Direct: 612-626-8515 >>Office: 612-624-4190 >>Fax: 612-624-3858 >> >>
>> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 14:32:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: The religious foundation of language In-Reply-To: <8e.20b3b991.2f3cc3e6@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mary, I think you can send attachments to this list. That would be far preferable than the way the text ends up formatted. When confronted with the odd line breaks, my snap judgment unfortunately turns to abject metaphors. At the same time (and bear in mind, I have only read the first part), I am not sure what is at stake in Cruz's discussion. I think it needs some translating or perhaps context, but he seems to be arguing that language is always encrypted, so those who find encryptions are actually not getting the point. I don't get the point, though. I think it is rather unlikely that every text has encryptions, some dark secret point to Logos. And I hold quite strongly to the thesis that men invented the gods (we had, too, after the dwarves and the elves and the wizards left the world, since we realized how lonely we were going to be). The piece seems like a whole lot of sound and fury which unfortunately signifies not very much (at this point). A provocative text nevertheless. best, Robert Mary Jo Malo wrote: Firstly, let me apologize for the poor quality of the T. Cruz quoted text which renders it difficult to read. I have yet to master the copy and paste technique from one format to another. Even after carefully going through all the punctuation and character adjustments, it still appears as garbage with unexpected spaces and line shifts. Secondly, I should have called the subject: quantum, religious and poetic nature of language. From what I understand of the proposed theory, written language evolved upon either an intended or accidental understanding of quantum level rhythm and future probabilities. Furthermore he suggests that written language could have developed during an intense religious subversion of human thought, with the language itself (character and rhythmic placement) being intentionally expressed as code. This code was permanently implanted in language for a number of purposes, but the primary result is that it has lasted so very long. I have always been an advocate of Robert Graves’ language theory since it is poetic. Whether he and Laura Riding developed it together or separately is not as important to me as its import. I agree with Graves, and what I understand of the Cruz theory is that language reflects both our biological and intellectual proclivity towards symbolism AND rhythm. Also, Cruz was offering a portion of his theory in a quasi-existentialist discussion group which is interdisciplinary, incorporating literature, phenomenology (scientific and philosophical) and atheism. He said that despite the fact that language may have at its foundation a religious agenda does not prove the existence of god. He said that the founders of such a language were aware of a technique which appeared powerful & mystical, a sleight of hand. Rhythm is intrinsic to everything so poetry and language would have this ubiquitous component. Now please, disagree with the theory in a manner that befits and implies intelligence and comprehension of at least one of the disciplines comprising the theory. Perhaps, poetry? There are many extant language theories, but this one is unique. Like I said, Graves (a poet, remember?) suggested a simpler version which did not include quantum physics. He was not a great poet, but he understood language and its intent far better than those who abuse it so regularly. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 18:39:22 -0500 Reply-To: Lori Emerson Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lori Emerson Subject: Re: The religious foundation of language In-Reply-To: <20050210223229.33448.qmail@web50410.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robert and all, unfortunately you can't send attachments to the list as they can carry viruses, or whatever the proper technical term is for that! best, Lori On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 14:32:28 -0800, Robert Corbett w= rote: > Mary, >=20 > I think you can send attachments to this list. That would be far prefera= ble than the way the text ends up formatted. When confronted with the odd = line breaks, my snap judgment unfortunately turns to abject metaphors. >=20 > At the same time (and bear in mind, I have only read the first part), I a= m not sure what is at stake in Cruz's discussion. I think it needs some tr= anslating or perhaps context, but he seems to be arguing that language is a= lways encrypted, so those who find encryptions are actually not getting the= point. I don't get the point, though. I think it is rather unlikely that= every text has encryptions, some dark secret point to Logos. And I hold q= uite strongly to the thesis that men invented the gods (we had, too, after = the dwarves and the elves and the wizards left the world, since we realized= how lonely we were going to be). The piece seems like a whole lot of soun= d and fury which unfortunately signifies not very much (at this point). >=20 > A provocative text nevertheless. >=20 > best, >=20 > Robert >=20 > Mary Jo Malo wrote: > Firstly, let me apologize for the poor quality of the T. Cruz quoted text > which renders it difficult to read. I have yet to master the copy and pas= te > technique from one format to another. Even after carefully going through = all the > punctuation and character adjustments, it still appears as garbage with > unexpected spaces and line shifts. Secondly, I should have called the sub= ject: > quantum, religious and poetic nature of language. >=20 > From what I understand of the proposed theory, written language evolved u= pon > either an intended or accidental understanding of quantum level rhythm an= d > future probabilities. Furthermore he suggests that written language could= have > developed during an intense religious subversion of human thought, with t= he > language itself (character and rhythmic placement) being intentionally > expressed as code. This code was permanently implanted in language for a = number of > purposes, but the primary result is that it has lasted so very long. >=20 > I have always been an advocate of Robert Graves=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=84=A2 l= anguage theory since it is > poetic. Whether he and Laura Riding developed it together or separately i= s > not as important to me as its import. I agree with Graves, and what I > understand of the Cruz theory is that language reflects both our biologic= al and > intellectual proclivity towards symbolism AND rhythm. Also, Cruz was offe= ring a > portion of his theory in a quasi-existentialist discussion group which is > interdisciplinary, incorporating literature, phenomenology (scientific an= d > philosophical) and atheism. He said that despite the fact that language m= ay have at > its foundation a religious agenda does not prove the existence of god. He > said that the founders of such a language were aware of a technique which > appeared powerful & mystical, a sleight of hand. Rhythm is intrinsic to e= verything > so poetry and language would have this ubiquitous component. >=20 > Now please, disagree with the theory in a manner that befits and implies > intelligence and comprehension of at least one of the disciplines compris= ing the > theory. Perhaps, poetry? There are many extant language theories, but thi= s > one is unique. Like I said, Graves (a poet, remember?) suggested a simple= r > version which did not include quantum physics. He was not a great poet, b= ut he > understood language and its intent far better than those who abuse it so > regularly. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 18:54:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ANDREWS@FORDHAM.EDU Subject: Announcement =?UTF-8?B?4oCUIFBvZXRyeSBSZWFkaW5nOiAgQW5kcmV3cyAmIE1lbHR6ZXIgdGhpcw==?= =?UTF-8?B?IFdlZG5lc2RheQ==?= Comments: To: poetics@acsu.buffalo.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: base64 DQoNCg0KDQpCUlVDRSBBTkRSRVdTDQogICAgICArDQpEQVZJRCBNRUxUWkVSDQoNCldlZG5lc2Rh eSDigJQgRmVicnVhcnkgMTYNCmF0IDggcC5tLg0KDQpUaGUgUG9ldHJ5IFByb2plY3QNClN0LiBN YXJr4oCZcyBDaHVyY2gNCjEzMSBFYXN0IDEwdGggU3QuIChhdCAybmQgQXZlLikNCk1hbmhhdHRh bg0KDQoNCg0KfiB3b3VsZCBsb3ZlIHRvIHNlZSB5b3UgdGhlcmU7DQogICBob3BlIHlvdSBjYW4g bWFrZSBpdA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg4oCUIEJydWNl ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 13:45:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: The Religious Foundation of Language - Part I Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response I havent read any of the posts on this but I wonder if Robin really means (and let us pay attention to the semantic input here -let's be clear here) (one tries to assist): "Total utter complete absolute entire gross saturated downright uttermost crass consummate rank unsurpassable finished vast inordinate monstrous whacking excessive rounded smelly flagrant thumping monumental prodigious preposterous fabulous stinky egregious boundless staring unequivocal unredeemed unparalleled swingeing moo-cow and in a large degree, bullshit?" That description or kind of bullshit?? Richard Taylor richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet / Chess Addict/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: --------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."------------------ Aspect Books (N.Z.) on www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robin Hamilton" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 4:32 PM >> Subject: Re: The Religious Foundation of Language - Part I >> >> >>> From: "Mary Jo Malo" >>> >>> To: >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 11:44 PM >>> Subject: The Religious Foundation of Language - Part I >>> >>> >>> Utter and total bushshit. >>> >>> Whaledreck. >>> >>> R. > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 02:21:39 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Re: The Religious Foundation of Language - Part I MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cor I've just been looking in on all this and I'm both fascinated and bewildered: bewildered by some of the terms that are flying around and fascinated by the subject. Methinks that the relationship between language and the sacred is ultimately irrefutable, however, that is not to key into some kind of GDubbya crap rhetoric of good and evil powers. The rhetoric that is, not necessarily the reality. Me and my little disabled lady, who both probably can be called alcoholics, and have 'enjoyed' personal lives throughout our adulthood existence that can be mildly termed as chaotic, do both believe in a loving-kindness deity without having any assurance of post-mortem continuance, which does not mean a subscription to some of the nastier prophets in the Bible. When we go to our Methodist church we find a symbolic language in the services which makes us, however briefly, fell slightly sane (for a change!). I think too that that looking for structure, meaning even in the without meaning, is close to the heart of the drive behind the poetic impulse, creating form from what is formless, maybe, even if life is but a joke. Not so much let us praise famous men but let us praise something that isn't horrid, as it were. Little Vicky often goes out a 6.30 in the morning with her walking frame to keep exercising, she also often runs me over with it when she's pissed, with the result that I sometimes have to use a walking stick because my foot is bruised, but that is the human comedy which is also divine, I love it all, even if absurdity is what underlies all we believe in, all we feel, even love, or poetry. All the Best Dave David Bircumshaw Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet & Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 21:51:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: U.K. to Air Do-It-Yourself Show On Torture Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit U.K. to Air Do-It-Yourself Show On Torture Techniques: FOX Buys American Rights To "Ratings Bonanza": Female Military Personnel Performing Lap Dances On Gitmo Prisoners And Visiting Journalists Raises Concern: Bob Guccioni To Train Army's Female Recruits By T.P. BONE'UM ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 23:11:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: [job] creative writing - assistant professor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DESCRIPTION ASSISTANT PROFESSOR, CREATIVE WRITING ENGLISH DEPARTMENT The College of St. Scholastica invites applications for a full-time, tenure track assistant professorship in the English Department beginning fall semester 2005. The appointment entails teaching undergraduate creative writing courses in poetry, fiction, and creative non-fiction as well as composition and literature. An MFA and/or Ph.D. in creative writing, publication record, and experience teaching at the college level are required. To apply, submit a curriculum vitae, official undergraduate and graduate transcripts, and three letters of recommendation to Jill Sikkink, Sr. HR Generalist, College of St. Scholastica, 1200 Kenwood Avenue, Duluth, MN 55811-4199. Visit our website at www.css.edu for more information about the College. All applicants must be authorized to work in the United States at the time of an offer of employment. AA/EOE ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 00:01:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: "And just so, Jonathan and Jane" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed "And just so, Jonathan and Jane" When my grave is broke up againe Some second ghest to entertaine, http://www.asondheim.org/blackout.jpg >From Mary Magdelane they deign, The light of Reason gone, and feign To vanquish Language from the sane, Just so the dredging of the Seine Resultant cruise beyond the Main, Beyond the Ghast, where Darkness reign, The ghost or gast behest and Thane And Lord shall mourn the pain Within - Without, the Violent gain, The Meek are weakened, slaughtered, stained, Bound, nonetheless by blackness, chained. And just so, Jonathan and Jane _ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 00:11:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: genesis genesis redux MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed genesis genesis redux in the beginning god created heaven and earth was without form void darkness upon face of deep spirit moved waters said let there be light saw that it good divided from called day he night evening morning were first a firmament midst divide made which under above so second gathered together unto one place dry land appear gathering seas bring forth grass herb yielding seed fruit tree after his kind whose is itself brought third lights to them for signs seasons days years give two great greater rule lesser stars also set over fourth abundantly moving creature hath life fowl may fly open whales every living moveth their winged blessed saying fruitful multiply fill fifth cattle creeping thing beast creepeth us make man our image likeness have dominion fish sea air all own him male female replenish subdue behold i given you bearing shall meat wherein green had very sixth thus heavens finished host on seventh ended work rested sanctified because these are generations when they lord plant field before grew not caused rain till ground but went up mist watered whole formed dust breathed into nostrils breath became soul planted garden eastward eden put whom out grow pleasant sight food knowledge evil river water thence parted four heads name pison compasseth havilah where gold bdellium onyx stone gihon same ethiopia hiddekel goeth toward east assyria euphrates took dress keep commanded thou mayest freely eat shalt eatest thereof surely die should alone will an help meet adam see what would call whatsoever gave names found sleep fall slept ribs closed flesh instead rib taken woman her this now bone my bones she therefore leave father mother cleave wife both naked ashamed serpent more subtil than any yea ye we trees neither touch lest doth know then your eyes opened as gods knowing desired wise did husband with knew sewed fig leaves themselves aprons heard voice walking cool hid presence amongst art thy afraid myself who told thee wast hast eaten whereof shouldest gavest me done beguiled cursed belly go enmity between bruise head heel greatly sorrow conception children desire hearkened sake thorns thistles sweat bread return s eve coats skins clothed become hand take live ever sent whence drove placed at cherubims flaming sword turned way conceived bare cain gotten again brother abel keeper sheep tiller process time came pass offering firstlings flock fat respect wroth countenance fell why fallen if doest well accepted sin lieth door talked rose against slew am blood crieth mouth receive tillest henceforth yield strength fugitive vagabond punishment can bear driven come findeth slay whosoever slayeth vengeance sevenfold mark finding kill dwelt nod enoch builded city son born irad begat mehujael methusael lamech wives adah other zillah jabal such dwell tents jubal handle harp organ tubalcain instructor artificer brass iron sister naamah hear hearken speech slain wounding young hurt avenged truly seventy seth appointed another enos began men book lived hundred thirty begotten eight sons daughters nine died five seven twelve ninety cainan fifteen mahalaleel forty ten sixty jared methuselah walked three eighty noah comfort concerning toil hands old shem ham japheth fair chose always strive yet twenty giants those mighty renown wickedness imagination thoughts heart only continually repented grieved destroy fowls repenteth grace just perfect corrupt filled violence looked corrupted end through ark gopher wood rooms pitch within fashion length cubits breadth fifty height window cubit finish side lower stories even do flood establish covenant sort alive gather according house seen righteous generation clean by sevens beasts cause nights substance off six hundredth year month seventeenth fountains broken windows selfsame entered bird shut increased lift prevailed exceedingly high hills covered upward prevail mountains destroyed things remained remembered wind asswaged stopped restrained returned abated ararat decreased until tenth tops raven fro dried dove no rest sole foot pulled stayed lo olive leaf pluckt removed covering twentieth spake breed kinds altar offered burnt offerings smelled sweet savour curse youth smite while remaineth seedtime harvest cold heat summer winter cease fear dread fishes delivered liveth lives require whoso sheddeth shed therein cut token perpetual bow cloud remember look everlasting established canaan overspread husbandman vineyard drank wine drunken uncovered tent nakedness brethren garment laid shoulders backward faces awoke younger servant servants enlarge gomer magog madai javan tubal meshech tiras ashkenaz riphath togarmah elishah tarshish kittim dodanim isles gentiles lands tongue families nations cush mizraim phut seba sabtah raamah sabtechah sheba dedan nimrod hunter wherefore kingdom babel erech accad calneh shinar asshur nineveh rehoboth calah resen ludim anamim lehabim naphtuhim pathrusim casluhim philistim caphtorim sidon heth jebusite amorite girgasite hivite arkite sinite arvadite zemarite hamathite afterward canaanites spread abroad border comest gerar gaza goest sodom gomorrah admah zeboim lasha tongues countries eber elder elam arphaxad lud aram uz hul gether mash salah peleg joktan almodad sheleph hazarmaveth jerah hadoram uzal diklah obal abimael ophir jobab dwelling mesha sephar mount language journeyed plain brick burn thoroughly slime morter build tower top reach scattered down people begin nothing imagined confound understand left scatter reu serug nahor terah nineteen abram haran lot nativity ur chaldees sarai milcah daughter iscah barren child law get country kindred shew nation bless blessing curseth departed spoken souls passed sichem moreh canaanite appeared mountain bethel pitched having west hai going still south famine egypt sojourn grievous near enter egyptians say save pray beheld princes pharaoh commended entreated oxen asses menservants maidservants camels plagued plagues didst tell saidst might away rich silver journeys been flocks herds able could strife herdmen perizzite dwelled separate thyself wilt right or depart lifted jordan like zoar separated cities wicked sinners thine northward southward westward seest number numbered arise walk mamre hebron built amraphel king arioch ellasar chedorlaomer tidal war bera birsha shinab shemeber zeboiim bela joined vale siddim salt served thirteenth rebelled fourteenth kings smote rephaims ashteroth karnaim zuzims emins shaveh kiriathaim horites seir elparan wilderness enmishpat kadesh amalekites amorites hazezontamar battle full slimepits fled goods victuals escaped hebrew eshcol aner confederate captive armed trained eighteen pursued dan himself hobah damascus back women slaughter valley dale melchizedek salem priest most possessor enemies tithes persons mine thread shoelatchet portion word vision shield exceeding reward seeing childless steward eliezer heir bowels believed counted righteousness inherit whereby heifer goat ram turtledove pigeon each piece birds carcases sun horror surety stranger serve afflict judge fathers peace buried age hither iniquity dark smoking furnace burning lamp pieces kenites kenizzites kadmonites hittites perizzites girgashites jebusites handmaid egyptian hagar maid obtain mistress despised wrong bosom pleaseth dealt hardly angel fountain shur camest whither flee submit multitude ishmael affliction wild here seeth beerlahairoi bered fourscore almighty many abraham possession among circumcised circumcise foreskin betwixt bought money must needs uncircumcised sarah laughed o indeed isaac beget next talking thirteen plains sat stood ran bowed favour little fetched wash feet yourselves fetch morsel hearts hastened ready quickly measures fine meal knead cakes hearth herd fetcht calf tender hasted butter milk dressed certainly behind stricken ceased manner herself waxed pleasure being laugh too hard denied nay hide command household justice judgment cry whether altogether drew peradventure spare far find sakes answered speak ashes lack oh angry once soon communing angels gate lords turn tarry rise early ways abide street pressed feast bake unleavened lay compassed round quarter wickedly known shadow roof stand fellow deal worse sore break blindness small wearied besides waxen married seemed mocked arose consumed lingered hold merciful escape stay magnified mercy shewed saving cannot some thither overthrow haste anything risen rained brimstone fire overthrew inhabitants pillar gat smoke feared cave firstborn drink lie preserve perceived nor morrow yesternight moab moabites benammi ammon sojourned abimelech dream dead integrity innocency withheld sinning suffered restore prophet ears offended deeds ought sawest thought wander kindness womenservants restored thousand reproved prayed healed fast wombs visited suck weaned mocking cast bondwoman lad bottle putting shoulder wandered beersheba spent shrubs shot death wept aileth archer paran phichol chief captain swear falsely violently wot ewe lambs mean witness digged sware philistines grove tempt lovest moriah offer saddled ass clave afar yonder worship knife lamb provide order bound stretched fearest caught thicket horns stead jehovahjireh sworn saith multiplying sand shore possess obeyed huz buz kemuel chesed hazo pildash jidlaph bethuel rebekah concubine reumah tebah gaham thahash maachah kirjatharba mourn weep sojourner buryingplace bury prince choice sepulchres none withhold sepulchre communed mind intreat ephron zohar machpelah much worth hittite audience shekels weighed named current merchant borders about sure eldest ruled thigh willing follow beware send clear oath master matter mesopotamia kneel draw speed damsel pitcher thereby speaking virgin giving drinking emptied trough wondering held wit journey prosperous golden earring half shekel weight bracelets room lodge moreover straw provender enough worshipped destitute truth led laban words standest prepared ungirded errand prosper cometh asked kindly proceedeth bad bowing jewels raiment precious tarried few least hinder prospered enquire nurse thousands millions hate damsels rode followed lahairoi meditate eventide coming lighted camel walketh vail loved comforted keturah zimran jokshan medan midian ishbak shuah asshurim letushim leummim ephah epher hanoch abidah eldaah concubines gifts threescore ghost purchased nebajoth kedar adbeel mibsam mishma dumah massa hadar tema jetur naphish kedemah towns castles syrian padanaram intreated struggled womb stronger fulfilled twins red hairy esau jacob boys cunning venison sod pottage faint feed edom sell birthright point profit sold lentiles beside perform kept charge commandments statutes laws long sporting how lightly lien guiltiness charged toucheth sowed received hundredfold forward store envied wells mightier springing ours esek strove sitnah ahuzzath friends army touched betimes shebah judith beeri bashemath elon grief dim weapons quiver savoury love hunt obey kids goats loveth smooth feel seem deceiver goodly neck badest sit felt discerned kiss kissed smell dew fatness plenty corn blesseth scarce gone hunting trembled cried bitter subtilty rightly supplanted times reserved sustained yoke hated wherewith mourning touching purposing fury anger forget deprived weary daughers pleased mahalath certain stones pillows dreamed ladder reached ascending descending whereon liest north places awaked dreadful poured oil luz vowed vow lying rolled rachel roll tidings embraced abode space nought wages leah eyed beautiful favoured better zilpah fulfil week service bilhah reuben simeon levi praise judah else kindled knees judged wrestlings wrestled naphtali troop gad happy asher wheat mandrakes wouldest hired hire maiden issachar endued dowry zebulun afterwards dinah reproach joseph add knowest learned experience appoint hadst since removing speckled spotted brown answer stolen ringstraked white fed rods poplar hazel chesnut pilled strakes gutters watering troughs conceive whensoever feeble feebler glory power deceived changed rams leaped grisled leap doeth anointedst vowedst inheritance strangers quite devoured riches carried getting shear images stole unawares gilead overtook heed either captives secretly steal mirth songs tabret foolishly doing though longedst force whomsoever findest discern furniture searched displease custom chode trespass hotly whereas stuff ewes torn loss drought frost fourteen except empty labour rebuked heap jegarsahadutha galeed mizpah watch absent harm sacrifice met mahanaim messengers distressed bands company worthy mercies staff deliver lodged present milch colts kine bulls foals foremost meeteth asketh droves appease accept eleven ford jabbok brook breaking hollow joint breaketh israel dost ask peniel preserved penuel halted sinew shrank handmaids hindermost graciously handmaidens meanest urged knoweth overdrive lead softly endure folk needeth succoth booths shalem shechem parcel hamor erected eleloheisrael defiled commune wrought folly longeth marriages trade possessions never gift deceitfully consent deferred delight honourable peaceable large herein boldly males edge spoiled wealth ones troubled stink harlot fleddest strange change garments distress earrings oak terror pursue elbethel deborah beneath allonbachuth loins thereon ephrath travailed midwife departing benoni benjamin bethlehem grave beyond edar arbah aholibamah anah zibeon eliphaz reuel jeush jaalam korah got edomites teman omar zepho gatam kenaz timna amalek nahath zerah shammah mizzah dukes duke horite inhabited lotan shobal dishon ezer dishan hori hemam alvan manahath ebal shepho onam ajah mules hemdan eshban ithran cheran bilhan zaavan akan aran reigned beor dinhabah bozrah husham temani hadad bedad avith samlah masrekah saul baalhanan achbor pau mehetabel matred mezahab timnah alvah jetheth elah pinon mibzar magdiel iram habitations seventeen feeding report coat colours peaceably binding sheaves sheaf upright obeisance reign dreams moon ourselves observed wandering seekest seek hence dothan conspired dreamer pit rid stript ishmeelites spicery balm myrrh carry conceal content midianites merchantmen rent clothes killed kid dipped doubt sackcloth mourned refused potiphar officer guard adullamite hirah er onan shelah chezib tamar marry raise spilled displeased remain widow grown sheepshearers timnath friend wrapped pledge signet widowhood openly shamed months played whoredom acknowledged travail scarlet breach pharez zarah overseer person wotteth committed business mock loud home wrath prison prisoners doer butler baker officers butlers bakers ward continued season interpretation sad sadly interpreter interpretations belong vine branches budded blossoms clusters ripe grapes cup former think mention hebrews dungeon baskets uppermost basket bakemeats hang birthday butlership hanged interpreted forgat fatfleshed meadow ill leanfleshed brink stalk rank thin blasted sprung magicians interpret faults office hastily shaved canst bank poor badness lean withered declare sheweth throughout forgotten consume reason following doubled twice shortly discreet part plenteous perish forasmuch throne ring arrayed vestures linen chain ride chariot knee ruler zaphnathpaaneah asenath potipherah handfuls numbering manasseh ephraim plenteousness dearth famished storehouses buy mischief befall governor roughly spies true youngest hereby proved houses verified verily guilty anguish besought required understood sacks sack provision laded inn espied failed befell households traffick bundle bundles bereaved gray hairs solemnly protest straitly state tenor blame best fruits vessels honey spices nuts almonds double oversight dine noon bade occasion bondmen sir treasure washed welfare health gracious yearn sought chamber refrained abomination marvelled messes mess merry overtake rewarded drinketh divineth forbid mouths blameless speedily deed divine bondman refrain aloud earing posterity deliverance goshen nourish poverty speaketh fame lade wagons regard commandment changes laden fainted revived sacrifices visions phallu hezron carmi jemuel jamin ohad jachin shaul canaanitish gershon kohath merari hamul tola phuvah job shimron sered jahleel ziphion haggi shuni ezbon eri arodi areli jimnah ishuah isui beriah serah heber malchiel sixteen belah becher ashbel gera naaman ehi rosh muppim huppim ard hushim jahzeel guni jezer shillem direct presented shepherds occupation shepherd morever pasture activity rulers pilgrimage attained rameses nourished faileth fail exchange horses bodies desolate priests assigned sow increase parts saved multiplied nigh bed sick strengthened issue begettest padan guiding wittingly redeemed lads remove last excellency dignity unstable excel wentest defiledst couch instruments cruelty secret assembly honour united selfwill wall fierce cruel lion whelp prey stooped couched rouse sceptre lawgiver shiloh foal colt teeth haven ships zidon strong couching burdens tribute tribes adder path biteth horse heels rider waited salvation overcome royal dainties hind loose giveth bough run archers sorely arms blessings breasts progenitors utmost crown ravin wolf devour spoil purchase commanding yielded physicians embalm embalmed past elders chariots horsemen threshingfloor atad lamentation floor abelmizraim requite messenger forgive meant machir visit coffin ___ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:26:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Letter to Alan Sondheim that Suddenly Became Public Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Alan Some brilliant writing as usual - that one on genesis etc looks interesting -but I'll be surprised if someone doesn't complain how long it is - but I wouldn't take any notice unless the moderator objects - you should be putting your stuff on - I also looked at your jpgs etc - varied reactions but I was very interested and liked the pictures (not all) - there is an ambiguous quality to them (of course its not really a question of liking per se) - as i say - a disturbing disturbance they generate in me - but you have put a lot of work into this project of yours - there are hundreds of pictures -and some animations - that music was good - it came at the right time (for me) after some thing - thing! - had disturbed me in one of your "nature" pictures (think of teh ichneumon wasp, think of death and sex and decay but think of breathing and the light and the ectasy, think, adn dont think)- but being "disturbed" is ok !! That's never a criticism - irritated - exasperated because sometimes perhaps envious ,yes - even angry with Alan - yes - sometimes absolutely amazed - yes - sometimes not interested - but almost always interesting (A's work is never trite) - its harder to make effort to connect to peoples' blogs and links I find - so you are a lot more likely to be seen (and who knows is looking?) if you send direct - and also that is good for me - you know your posts are the main things I read on the list - i find a lot else is trivia (although I enjoy much of the other writers who contribute ) - there is no way I or anyone is ever going to "see" your whole work but that's ok its fascinating and as you say it resonates so it can be read anyway - in any order - (although some people will just "trash it" - but that's the way it always has been Alan -don't worry about the The Great Deleter of This World ( I think he deletes everything I send!!) -he has his own world - I don't know what kind of poetry he writes - actually I just saw one poem the other day of his in an Aussie mag (issued in about 1970!!) - years ago so its probably not representative - ) - that was also B K Johnoson's idea (to read his novel - loose leaved and in a box) in any order..great minds Alan ! Re film - I am not greatly into film but I was greatly affected by Brakhage I saw also NZ's Len Lye's work is strange - he had some rich strange and interesting ideas - but I can see you being tangential to these various 'schools ' - hard to place you - which is probably good - is good - you not only cant be placed you cant be replaced !! most of what I wrote my "middle period" - and quite a bit was published here and there - was simply written (and simply re(a)d ! hope not!)- as if I was composing music - without much conscious thought so to speak - often no idea what I was about to write about or why (sometimes kind of responding to music or art) I was making a kind of music with words I suppose - I couldn't explain much of it ( i really got a "buzz" only when I could read it aloud to people: publish by voice and presence was me then... I was popular as a reader in Auckland - but I stopped becasue i used to drink a lot at the same time (and get caught by the cops driving ( some strange stories there!! - nealy killed myself a few times ..i think....) and terrorising women and have public fights (they wernt very good fights lol) with my ex and or her lovers etc etc etc etc -madness - madness!! - all gone - no (hardly any) feeling for even sex now -hence passion gone -maybe drive gone also -all gone - gone! gone! gone! - all gone thank god ) so I avoid readings now) ( I dont go to many social events as such ) (and not drinking and walking and being healthy are great - being alive is enough - (going public now Alan) - love it - the readings and the adulations - and even any poetry at all - can go if need be - into the fire - burn all my writings - enflame I command you!! enflame !! free me - words !! - as long as I feel good - but that isnt your case I know - your are passionate - driven) - and I was dark but driven in those drink times and words came some were words i heard or would hear coming from dreams or as i was falling asleep etc or the ideas flashed in that "inward eye" - lol! (lol -it - the term -irritates me but I keep using it) After a while I found I wrote everything too quickly and too easily - then I thought of doing a project (well before I even got a computer ) but have really done much on it (to be looking at all these writers around me with ther various ideas and projects etc and yours in particular ( I may have to stop looking if I want to get any confidence to write!) (my father told me the story years ago - Turner is said to have one of his paintings beside some other artist in an exhibition -and someone pointed out how his sun blazed so much it put the other work in the shade so to speak - so he painted his sun out with black paint!) (but dont paint out your sun Alan!) - i doubt I really had anything original to contribute in my projected project(s) that had not been said elsewhere - or whatever) - I m not very energetic and now I have more or less -almost lost interest in writing - but I know if i put my mind into the right gear the music will start again..or it might just come - unbidden as the buds and birds of spring!- it -my brain/mind is eating up ideas for now (well either that or its just shutting down!)... You affect this person in any case Alan...lol (use that cyber shorthand everyday in chess on the net - especially when I make a stupid blunder!) Keep going Alan - keep going all of you whether on your blogs or by sending links or whatever -keep going all of you - all you writers and creators - ignore that person who attacked the postmodern magazine (or the non-postmodern magazine - whatever) with that kind editor St Thomasino - keep on, keep on - of whatever style or approach -keep on - keep on - regardless - i dont know why Richard Taylor Auckland - New Zealand richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet ("Well..." ) / Chess Addict (partly recovered) /Was 15 stone - working on it -/ Grandfather/ BA /NZCE/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: --------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."---------------------- ASPECT BOOKS www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 07:05:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: Satirical Poetry MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=Windows-1252; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Zaranka, William, ed. The Brand-X Anthology of Poetry: A Parody Anthology. Burnt Norton Edition. Cambridge: Apple-wood books, 1981. ISBN 0-918222-31-1 ~ Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shankar, Ravi (English)" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 7:19 AM Subject: Re: Satirical Poetry Great suggestions, all; glad to have such a wealth of material to choose from. And I suppose I'm compelled to exhibit a couple of satirical poems of my own as due recompense- -RS Ten Truisms and a Lie Spatulas make passable flyswatters. On average, double coupons mean twice as much. To make a monkey a man, offer a cigarette. Orange is the new pink; pink was the new black. Punk rock panders. Sour cream and onion sells more than salt and vinegar. Some prefer bromides to platitudes. The phrase, irony is based on misrelationship discovered by the ‘I’ between existence and the idea of existence, is plagiarized. Aristophanes meant well when he put Socrates in a basket. Even the mullet has risen! And from Instrumentality- The Flock’s Reply to the Passionate Shepherd After Christopher Marlowe Marooned upon this grassy knoll, We wander lost from vale to pole, Our wooly backs resemble thorn, It’s been a while since we’ve been shorn. You waste much time trying to woo That nymph who never will see you. Since it’s a shepherd that you are, You’re better off courting a star. But over here, your loyal flock Needs no clasp, no precious rock To follow you from field to field: If love’s your need, we can but yield. Have you not heard us cry and bleat When you approach us, then retreat? We miss your orders and your laugh, We even miss your clouting staff. Save those gowns made of our wool, No need to make belts or to pull Posies from the hillside’s crease— That nymph is what we call a tease. Just as the hours wing away, There are some sheep that love to play: If such delights your mind might move Then live with us and be our love. *************** Ravi Shankar Poet-in-Residence Assistant Professor CCSU - English Dept. 860-832-2766 shankarr@ccsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 07:54:14 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Letter to Alan Sondheim that Suddenly Became Public MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, Richard, such kind encouraging words for Alan and all of us. -------------------- wording it always doing it thinking it breathing it when i lie down hypnogogic hypnopompic phrases ideas why didn't i bring pen & paper to bed i know i'll forget the freely flowing perfect words or at work on off the clock or in the kitchen waiting for the water to boil stir in the pasta words circling around my daughter says mom you're not listening you have a blank look words rolling round behind my eyes always notebook in my pocket on the park bench at night in my lover's ear oooh that's nice i love the sound of your voice put me to sleep baby keep talking -------------------- . . .some were words i heard or would hear coming from dreams or as i was falling asleep etc or the ideas flashed in that "inward eye" . . . Keep going Alan - keep going all of you whether on your blogs or by sending links or whatever -keep going all of you - all you writers and creators - ignore that person who attacked the postmodern magazine (or the non-postmodern magazine - whatever) with that kind editor St Thomasino - keep on, keep on - of whatever style or approach -keep on - keep on - regardless - i dont know why Richard Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 14:38:11 +0000 Reply-To: lisajarnot Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lisajarnot Subject: poetry workshop with lisa jarnot in nyc Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, could you please circulate this to students and friends? thanks much, lisa jarnot I will be conducting a 10 week poetry writing workshop at my apartment in Williamsburg Brooklyn, beginning the Week of March 1st. The fee is $250 and the course is limited to six students. The workshop is open to beginning thru advanced students of poetry and will address issues of content and form, traditional verse forms vs. "field theory" poetics, the interaction of linguistic theory, phonetics, and poetics, ideas of lineage and derivation in poetry, and other topics that suit the interests of the students. The times and days of the workshop will be determined by the schedules of the students. Please contact me at jarnot@earthlink.net or view my website at http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/lisajarnot/ for more information. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 10:23:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Letter to Alan Sondheim that Suddenly Became Public Comments: To: richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Yes Richard, for someone who has "almost lost interest in writing," you are fluent. Perhaps your mind is already in the right gear and the music has started again unbidden as the birds and buds. Anyway as you say to Alan: don't paint out your sun Richard. Mairead www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com >>> richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ 02/12/05 2:26 AM >>> Alan Some brilliant writing as usual - that one on genesis etc looks interesting -but I'll be surprised if someone doesn't complain how long it is - but I wouldn't take any notice unless the moderator objects - you should be putting your stuff on - I also looked at your jpgs etc - varied reactions but I was very interested and liked the pictures (not all) - there is an ambiguous quality to them (of course its not really a question of liking per se) - as i say - a disturbing disturbance they generate in me - but you have put a lot of work into this project of yours - there are hundreds of pictures -and some animations - that music was good - it came at the right time (for me) after some thing - thing! - had disturbed me in one of your "nature" pictures (think of teh ichneumon wasp, think of death and sex and decay but think of breathing and the light and the ectasy, think, adn dont think)- but being "disturbed" is ok !! That's never a criticism - irritated - exasperated because sometimes perhaps envious ,yes - even angry with Alan - yes - sometimes absolutely amazed - yes - sometimes not interested - but almost always interesting (A's work is never trite) - its harder to make effort to connect to peoples' blogs and links I find - so you are a lot more likely to be seen (and who knows is looking?) if you send direct - and also that is good for me - you know your posts are the main things I read on the list - i find a lot else is trivia (although I enjoy much of the other writers who contribute ) - there is no way I or anyone is ever going to "see" your whole work but that's ok its fascinating and as you say it resonates so it can be read anyway - in any order - (although some people will just "trash it" - but that's the way it always has been Alan -don't worry about the The Great Deleter of This World ( I think he deletes everything I send!!) -he has his own world - I don't know what kind of poetry he writes - actually I just saw one poem the other day of his in an Aussie mag (issued in about 1970!!) - years ago so its probably not representative - ) - that was also B K Johnoson's idea (to read his novel - loose leaved and in a box) in any order..great minds Alan ! Re film - I am not greatly into film but I was greatly affected by Brakhage I saw also NZ's Len Lye's work is strange - he had some rich strange and interesting ideas - but I can see you being tangential to these various 'schools ' - hard to place you - which is probably good - is good - you not only cant be placed you cant be replaced !! most of what I wrote my "middle period" - and quite a bit was published here and there - was simply written (and simply re(a)d ! hope not!)- as if I was composing music - without much conscious thought so to speak - often no idea what I was about to write about or why (sometimes kind of responding to music or art) I was making a kind of music with words I suppose - I couldn't explain much of it ( i really got a "buzz" only when I could read it aloud to people: publish by voice and presence was me then... I was popular as a reader in Auckland - but I stopped becasue i used to drink a lot at the same time (and get caught by the cops driving ( some strange stories there!! - nealy killed myself a few times ..i think....) and terrorising women and have public fights (they wernt very good fights lol) with my ex and or her lovers etc etc etc etc -madness - madness!! - all gone - no (hardly any) feeling for even sex now -hence passion gone -maybe drive gone also -all gone - gone! gone! gone! - all gone thank god ) so I avoid readings now) ( I dont go to many social events as such ) (and not drinking and walking and being healthy are great - being alive is enough - (going public now Alan) - love it - the readings and the adulations - and even any poetry at all - can go if need be - into the fire - burn all my writings - enflame I command you!! enflame !! free me - words !! - as long as I feel good - but that isnt your case I know - your are passionate - driven) - and I was dark but driven in those drink times and words came some were words i heard or would hear coming from dreams or as i was falling asleep etc or the ideas flashed in that "inward eye" - lol! (lol -it - the term -irritates me but I keep using it) After a while I found I wrote everything too quickly and too easily - then I thought of doing a project (well before I even got a computer ) but have really done much on it (to be looking at all these writers around me with ther various ideas and projects etc and yours in particular ( I may have to stop looking if I want to get any confidence to write!) (my father told me the story years ago - Turner is said to have one of his paintings beside some other artist in an exhibition -and someone pointed out how his sun blazed so much it put the other work in the shade so to speak - so he painted his sun out with black paint!) (but dont paint out your sun Alan!) - i doubt I really had anything original to contribute in my projected project(s) that had not been said elsewhere - or whatever) - I m not very energetic and now I have more or less -almost lost interest in writing - but I know if i put my mind into the right gear the music will start again..or it might just come - unbidden as the buds and birds of spring!- it -my brain/mind is eating up ideas for now (well either that or its just shutting down!)... You affect this person in any case Alan...lol (use that cyber shorthand everyday in chess on the net - especially when I make a stupid blunder!) Keep going Alan - keep going all of you whether on your blogs or by sending links or whatever -keep going all of you - all you writers and creators - ignore that person who attacked the postmodern magazine (or the non-postmodern magazine - whatever) with that kind editor St Thomasino - keep on, keep on - of whatever style or approach -keep on - keep on - regardless - i dont know why Richard Taylor Auckland - New Zealand richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet ("Well..." ) / Chess Addict (partly recovered) /Was 15 stone - working on it -/ Grandfather/ BA /NZCE/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: --------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."---------------------- ASPECT BOOKS www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 11:34:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Hoerman, Michael A" Subject: My blog in the news & recent topics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The Massachusetts Cultural Council features my blog in their online Artist News. http://www.massculturalcouncil.org/artistnews/bloggers.html Recent topics at Pornfeld -Continuing controversy over Southie writer's book -My poem "Sin" -Harvard's upcoming vispo exhibit "Infinity" http://pornfeld.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 11:39:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Irving Weiss Subject: Re: New Magazine In-Reply-To: <1107910116.42095de4db19d@mail1.buffalo.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I am confused by technicalities. My e-mail is Microsoft Entourage 2001 for Mac and I use a G-4 Mac OS 9.2.2. But it seems that I cannot directly send an image in the textual message are of my e-mail. I must attach it. Yet when I attach an image to my e-mail and send it to myself, the image appear= s in the text but also in larger form in the attachment area. My question is, since I don=B9t know how to send an image by e-mail without attaching it, even if it may appear also in the textual area as well as in the attachment area, will you accept submissions sent that way? Irving Weiss Irving Weiss www.irvingweiss.com On 2/8/05 7:48 PM, "Poetics List Administration" wrote: > CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS >=20 > THE WANDERING HERMIT REVIEW, a new, twice-yearly independent arts and > literary journal, is looking for poetry and fiction, essays and reviews, > comics and art. The Hermit will be a perfect bound, digest size journal o= f > 120 - 150 pages. >=20 > Poetry: Please send 3 - 5 poems at a time preferably pasted into the body= of > the e-mail. As Robert Duncan wrote, =B3every order of poetry finds itself, > defines itself, in conflict with others.=B2 We=B9d love to see that conflict > take place within the covers of The Hermit. Send acrostics, alcaics, > alphabet poems, aubades, ballads, blues poems, catalog poems, centos, > cinquains, concrete poems, constraint-driven forms of your own invention, > elegiacs, haiku, laments, lang po or oulipo inspired experiments, limeric= ks, > madrigals, odes, pantoums, projective verse, prose poems, rispettos, > rondeaus, roundelays, sapphics, skeltonics, sestinas, sonnets, tanka, > triolets, villanelles.... you get the idea. >=20 > Fiction: For short shorties we=B9d prefer to see the text pasted into the b= ody > of the e-mail. Unlikely to publish anything beyond 20 pages. As with poet= ry, > we=B9re open to a broad range of literary fiction. We=B9d like to see short > stories, microfiction, fables, and novel excerpts that stand on their own= . > We=B9re interested in Social Realism, Surrealism, Magical Realism, Postmod= ern > Meta-fiction, and the indefinable. Weird is good. So is funny. Send humor= . > Not interested in paint-by-numbers genre fiction but if; like Oakley Hall > for the Western, Walter Mosley for Detective Fiction, Ursula LeGuin for > Sci-Fi, you=B9re working within the constraints of the genre to say somethi= ng > serious and original about the human condition, by all means let us have = a > look. >=20 > Essays & Reviews: Well-written, concise considerations of contemporary ar= ts, > literature and life with a preference for subjects outside the corporate > mainstream and within the Pacific Northwest. DIY culture. Tell us about t= hat > brilliant musician we=B9re unlikely ever to see perform on television or he= ar > on the radio, the small press book of the poet too weird and honest for > academia, your neighbor who welds junk into phantasmagoric monsters in hi= s > garage. >=20 > Comics & Art: Quality black & white drawings, photos & thoughtful, origin= al > comics. >=20 > Please send submissions with a brief bio to: whrev@yahoo.com >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 12:08:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "St. Thomasino" Subject: ERATIO SMEARED Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed 9 Dear Friends -- I am thankful to everyone who responded. I will gladly take a bullet=20 for our poetry, and I will wear my scar proudly. So far as Snow White and her seven mental dwarfs go, what they cannot=20 accept is this: More people are writing poetry (and other creative=20 writings) today because of Language and post-avant than for any other=20 reason. I think the influence is comparable to that of the Beats, and=20= like that of the Beats, there are succeeding generations. If you=20 really love creativity, how can this be bad? You gotta give credit=20 where credit is due! Snow White and her dwarfs ought to channel their=20= resentment into writing a better poem, one that appeals to the spirit=20 of the times the way that Language and the post-avant and the=20 postmodern have. You just gotta give credit where credit is due. . . . (And I do not believe that people who use the term "postmodern" are not=20= postmodern -- say, in their poetry and in the way they think. I do,=20 however, believe that it is a broad category. And where concerns=20 poetry, it is more than a matter of form or style or technique, it is a=20= sensibilities. Agree or disagree -- I have friends who do both -- it's=20= really not that big a deal for me. The term does not offend or=20 threaten or challenge me -- or my self-image -- in any way. And I=20 think it is ridiculous to dismiss a person because of his vocabulary. =20= Not all of us seek legitimacy by way of association -- I suppose it's a=20= self-image thing, or maybe it's a career thing. I suppose it's a=20 "value" thing.) I'll be reading you all wherever I find you. Gregory . . ERATIO SMEARED This "review" just up at Web Del Sol, by Tim McGrath: mcgrattf@bc.edu : "Eratio Postmodern Poetry =A0 ://=A0 View | Rating: Eratio offers up incomprehensible postmodern fodder for critics of=20 postmodern incomprehensibility. Good luck finding anything=20 intentionally; look for links and find a blog, look for poetry and find=20= quotations. And when you realize that Eratio's editor, Gregory Vincent=20= St. Thomasino (whose name suggests either a pseudonymously guarded=20 narcissist or the tragi-comic hero of a Wes Anderson film) has included=20= his own embarrassing asseverations ("Discourse is like a river" is his=20= unqualified and deplorably facile, but apparently quotable, simile)=20 along with the words of Nietszche, Plato, and Jung, you'll start=20 wondering whether this postmodern experiment is, in fact, a postmodern=20= parody. On the same page, alongside the luminous Lord Duke G.V. St.=20 Thomasino, Diane Wakoski is quoted as saying, "I feel that poetry is=20 the completely personal expression of someone about his feelings and=20 reactions to the world. I think it is only interesting in proportion to=20= how interesting the person who writes it is." By Wakoski's logic, the=20 people who bring you Eratio are not very interesting at all." Friends, as contributors to eratio postmodern poetry, you should=20 proudly count yourselves among some of the most talented and=20 influential writers and artists on the scene today. As editor of the=20 site, I can honestly say that many of the works submitted for eratio=20 simply do not make the cut (and I'm sorry if I've rejected your work,=20 Mr. McGrath, but there's always the welcome to send again).=A0 I try to=20= be fair when making these judgments, because I know what it means to=20 put your heart into something (especially something like poetry), and=20 how it feels to be rejected. Eratio is a labor of love, since it generates no revenue for me (but=20 rather costs me time and energy and money). Each issue requires months=20= of work, involving coding, design, correspondence, planning, and an=20 immeasurable amount of frustration. Ultimately, it's very gratifying --=20= but I cannot say it's fun. Still, I am proud to publish your work and hope that its presence at=20 eratio gives you some exposure and some degree of satisfaction that you=20= otherwise would not have had, and gives you some encouragement to=20 continue being a poet in an economy that doesn't much care about you. I do not know Tim McGrath. But if you read him closely you'll see that=20= this is nothing more than a personal attack on me (based on his dislike=20= of my name!). I am distressed because none of the poetry or artworks=20 are mentioned, and in fact I do not believe Mr. McGrath even bothered=20 to read or look at any of it. (But can he, indeed, talk about the=20 poetry, or the content of the page, or the logic of the concept, I=20 wonder? Why the subterfuge of fixating on my name? No one of any real=20 insight or wit would do that -- unless he were inclined to burlesque.) As a poet and a critic, I take great care to explicate my reasons for=20 "liking" or "disliking" something. More importantly, I consider it my=20 responsibility to try to place a work into context, to appreciate what=20= it is the poet is trying to achieve, and to assess whether this has=20 been accomplished (and sometimes I offer alternatives, but I never=20 ridicule and I am never disrespectful, and I always manage to point out=20= a poet's successes). There are several reviews in the current issue=20 that I took great care in writing, I hope you'll see them for yourself=20= now that the issue is up. Reading Tim McGrath's personal attack (on my name, for Pete's sake!) is=20= an example of something a poet or a critic should never do. Mr. McGrath=20= has latched on to my name as something that irritates him a great deal,=20= and in the process has ignored your work and mine. Why does Mr. McGrath=20= dislike me personally? Could it be that this is payback? (Or else:=20 What's "pseudonymously guarded" about it? What's "narcissist" about it?=20= I will, however, accept that being a Roman Catholic name it is somewhat=20= "tragi-comic.") Mr. McGrath's tone -- glib, cynical, condescending, and uninformed and=20= lacking of the requisite vocabulary to comprehend let alone explicate=20 or set a value upon "the postmodern" -- is indicative not only of Web=20 Del Sol but of the "unlettered lad" generally. I do not know why Web=20 Del Sol has adopted this attack mentality toward anything to do with=20 "the postmodern," but for sure it is the creativity of resentment. Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com http://eratio.blogspot.com/ . 9= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 11:27:49 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Benjamin Basan Subject: Arthur Miller Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Arthur Miller passed away yesterday: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4258065.stm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 12:37:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: genesis genesis redux revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed genesis genesis redux revisited The explanation: genesis genesis redux is a reduction of the book of Genesis, the originary book from which the spiral of monotheism extends. Creation exists in the performativity of speech; "God says," which of course presupposes a language, sound and an atmosphere to convey it, throat, vocal cords, lips, teeth, and tongue to configure it. "God says," and it is done, completed, vocalization into matter. But there remains, at the beginning, as if in reverse, the remnant, the speaking itself, the origin and material grounding of that language, Hebrew, Akkadian, Assyrian, Ugaritic, for example, from which creation ensues. Wherever the account begins, began, in whatever district, desert, forest, marshland. A word is created only once. The creation of the word proceeds from the existence of language; language is always already there, just as information is: If we only had the means and patience to read it! genesis genesis redux borrows and extends the materialization of language; it also works through the aesthetics of the Thousand Character Essay. Ellen Zweig and I have been translating this, it seems, forever, stumbling across difficult classical Chinese, without any background 'for this sort of thing.' In the Essay, a thousand different characters are used; the essay itself is a thousand characters long, and there is no repetition. One begins anew with each character, and here we are. genesis genesis redux transforms the book of Genesis, and this is a better transformation than one I had previously completed, this is more accurate. This transformation is, and must be, the originary text of language, and therefore must be Important, and a source for scholars of Revelation in English. The words in genesis genesis redux are all unique; the programming below (with eliminate.pl a perl program by Florian Cramer, upon my request) takes the original text, such as King James would have it, and eliminates all redundancy. Every word is returned to its primordial uniqueness, regardless of syntax and placement. As such, the text descends into increasingly terse languaging, since the more common words are of course eliminated early on. By the end of it, the protolanguage code of all enunciation appears; the whole constitutes a supplication to language itself, my own production of the Word of God, with no emendation, with a purity that would have been well nigh inconceivable before the digital age. Here is an accounting. cat genesis.txt | tr -cs A-Za-z '\012' | tr A-Z a-z > yy perl eliminate.pl < yy > redux.txt where eliminate.pl is below: #!/usr/local/bin/perl5 while () { @words = split /[\s]+/, $_; @spaces = split /[\S]+/, $_; for ($x=0; $x <= $#words; $x++) { $word_count{$words[$x]}++; if ($word_count{$words[$x]} == 1) {print $words[$x],$spaces[$x+1]} } } _______________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 10:09:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Traffic Subject: Borderline starring H.D. & Paul Robeson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Small Press Traffic is pleased to present on Friday, February 18, 2005 at 7 p.m. (note special time, plus free admission!) Borderline starring H.D. & Paul Robeson introduced by Susan McCabe cosponsored with the Visual Criticism Program at CCA Borderline (1930), starring H.D., Bryher, Paul and Eslanda Robeson, was ground-breaking for its treatment of race and sexuality. Director Kenneth Macpherson edited Close Up (1927-33), the first journal dedicated to film as a modernist art form. According to the British Film Institute, "The narrative is relatively simple, depicting an inter-racial love triangle, but Borderline's attempts to portray the extreme psychological states of its characters render it a quite complex film, [one which] concentrates on the inner states of its protagonists, using a technique that H.D. referred to as 'clatter-montage', in which rapid montage combinations create an effect close to superimposition." Susan McCabe's books include the poetry collection Swirl (Red Hen Press, 2003); as well as Elizabeth Bishop: Her Poetics of Loss (Penn, 1994); and new from Cambridge UP, Cinematic Modernism: Modern Poetry and Film. Her introduction to the new edition of Bryher's Visa for Avalon has just been published (Paris Press, 2004), and she has begun work on a critical biography, Bryher: Female Husband of Modernism. She teaches at USC. Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCA 1111 -- 8th Street San Francisco, CA 94107 415.551.9278 http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 18:20:08 +0000 Reply-To: Maria Villafranca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Villafranca Subject: open mike nyc February 17th MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Open Mic Poetry Reading February 17th: Dactyl Foundation for the Arts & Humanities 64 Grand Street (between West Broadway & Wooster) SoHo, NYC 212.219.2344 www.dactyl.org Open Mic/Emerging Poets Series Thursday, February 17, 2005 7-9pm $8 donation Drinks will be served. Open to all writers and the general public. Poets are encouraged to register: write Maria Villafranca at poetry@verseonvellum.com. There will be a short break in between the readings. Poets plan to read for about 10 minutes; 3 poems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 10:48:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Stephen Baraban Subject: Re: open mike nyc February 17th Comments: To: Maria Villafranca In-Reply-To: <20050211182008.432.qmail@server288.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Maria, Every time one of these enticing Dactyl Foundation open mike announcments has appeared on this list, I've wondered: if one is presenting very short poems, does one really have to stop after 3, even if that leaves one way shy of 10 minutes? I'm not saying that would be an unbearable rule--I'm just wondering what's the case, (and what's the rationale). -- Maria Villafranca wrote: > Poets plan to read for about 10 minutes; 3 poems. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 13:45:02 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: poetry therapy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit . Here is an email I received recently. I am passing it along because I don't know what to make of it. Poetry THERAPY? Haven't they heard of Hart Crane? AB ----- Original Message ----- From: Wordshaman@aol.com To: aaron@belz.net Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 11:20 AM Subject: Poetry Therapy Conference in St. Louis Hello Aaaron, I just read some of your fabulous work and was compelled to write immediately. My name is Deborah Grayson and I'm a Registered Poetry Therapist (yes, there is indeed such an amazing thing...) and regional director in Fort Lauderdale Fla of the National Association for Poetry Therapy. Our website is www.poetrytherapy.org. Our next conference will be in St. Louis, Mo. May 3-8th. Gregory Orr will be our keynote poet, yours truly will be your keynote speaker and tons of talented and inspiring people will be offering workshops and readings throughout this wonderful extravaganza. Thought you'd like to know about it! Meanwhile, Bangs looked like it was a fabulous collection. I wish you continued success with your work. In Poetry and Peace, Deborah Grayson, LMHC, RPT ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 14:03:28 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Skip Fox Subject: Re: poetry therapy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Grayson sounds familiar. Orr is all too familiar. Prob. grew out of Florida State. my 2 cents Aaron Belz wrote: > > . > Here is an email I received recently. I am passing it along because I > don't know what to make of it. Poetry THERAPY? Haven't they heard of Hart > Crane? > > AB > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Wordshaman@aol.com > To: aaron@belz.net > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 11:20 AM > Subject: Poetry Therapy Conference in St. Louis > > Hello Aaaron, > > I just read some of your fabulous work and was compelled to write > immediately. My name is Deborah Grayson and I'm a Registered Poetry > Therapist (yes, there is indeed such an amazing thing...) and regional > director in Fort Lauderdale Fla of the National Association for Poetry > Therapy. Our website is www.poetrytherapy.org. > > Our next conference will be in St. Louis, Mo. May 3-8th. Gregory Orr will > be our keynote poet, yours truly will be your keynote speaker and tons of > talented and inspiring people will be offering workshops and readings > throughout this wonderful extravaganza. Thought you'd like to know about > it! > > Meanwhile, Bangs looked like it was a fabulous collection. I wish you > continued success with your work. > > In Poetry and Peace, > Deborah Grayson, LMHC, RPT ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 15:15:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: poetry therapy In-Reply-To: <017101c51072$2e73bbe0$230110ac@AaronDell> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Poetry therapy has been around for something over 20 years. It's something like journal therapy or reminiscence workshops--the client expresses, works through issues, expression is interpreted back, discussed, etc. Done individually or in groups. Note that this has very little to do with what most of us call poetry, but a lot about confessionalism as practiced by Greg Orr, whose first two books (if memory serves--we knew each other back then, but I couldn't read another word without barfing) were an attempt to deal with his having accidentally killed his younger brother when he was himself a young child. Mark At 02:45 PM 2/11/2005, you wrote: >. >Here is an email I received recently. I am passing it along because I >don't know what to make of it. Poetry THERAPY? Haven't they heard of Hart >Crane? > >AB > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Wordshaman@aol.com >To: aaron@belz.net >Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 11:20 AM >Subject: Poetry Therapy Conference in St. Louis > > >Hello Aaaron, > >I just read some of your fabulous work and was compelled to write >immediately. My name is Deborah Grayson and I'm a Registered Poetry >Therapist (yes, there is indeed such an amazing thing...) and regional >director in Fort Lauderdale Fla of the National Association for Poetry >Therapy. Our website is www.poetrytherapy.org. > >Our next conference will be in St. Louis, Mo. May 3-8th. Gregory Orr will >be our keynote poet, yours truly will be your keynote speaker and tons of >talented and inspiring people will be offering workshops and readings >throughout this wonderful extravaganza. Thought you'd like to know about >it! > >Meanwhile, Bangs looked like it was a fabulous collection. I wish you >continued success with your work. > >In Poetry and Peace, >Deborah Grayson, LMHC, RPT ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 15:26:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: open mike nyc February 17th Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 I have the same fears, being a serialist and all - I mean do I read for ten= minutes and end in the middle of a serial or do I read three serials (whic= h would end up taking me to the twenties)? I'm not being facetious, just ad= ding to the humour... It's egalitarian all the way and up for interpretatio= n. Good job, Dactyl! www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 14:07:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Arthur Miller Comments: cc: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Not to make light of the normal rituals of a death, but maybe we can also see this one as Arthur Miller's last piece, last performance. I just suggested to my local bookstore (ironically called "The Phoenix"!) to place "The Crucible" and "Death of a Salesman" and other other works in the front window. (There amongst N Choamsky, H. Zinn, etc.) During the fifties' witch hunts it was probably more often than not activist Jews who were called into the hearings and trials. Today it's Arabs and Arab Americans. (That's if they even get out of confinement to be formally accused.) It's ironic that "The Crucible" as well as Orwell's "1984" are required reading in California high schools. One would think that the alarms in those books - as if they would now be part of our DNA - would automatically inform and compel public outrage against this selective death of the constitution. Contrarily, it seems, much of the public has an infinite capacity to absorb Bush & Co's lies and contradictions - each one combined with the repetitious incantations and calls for "Freedom." Real stomach turners. I hope we can, at least, hope that this, Miller's, last performance, will revive his work, as well as his transparent sense of public alarm. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > Ken - > > Truely, the death of Arthur Miller is a sad day. > > I certainly agree with your assessment of him. I have always > believed he was a great writer who understood America only too > well. Since I grew up with the values he presented in "Salesman" > I know just how important that drama was defining the American > "problem". I wonder if that problem is more universally espoused > in the world today. > > I would think of Japan, for instance. > > Why did he never win the Nobel Prize? > > Tom > > >> One should not be surprised when an 89-year-old man dies, but Miller's >> death caught me short and leaves me with deep grief. Not a relative, just >> "another writer," one whose imperfections are probably all too >> glaring. But one who had something that seems to have vanished from the >> landscape: a moral and social conscience and the courage to exercise them >> on paper. If Death of a Salesman was not the grandiosely-described tragedy >> of everyman, it came closer than anything else I know to expressing "an >> American tragedy" born of a twisted ethos of life in the States that >> prevails to this day. And as for The Crucible...I wish it were still not >> as relevant as it was in 1953, but that says more about us than about >> Miller himself. >> >> He was a deeply gifted man and I shall miss him deeply. >> >> Ken >> >> ------------------------------------------------- >> >> Kenneth Wolman www.kenwolman.com kenwolman.blogspot.com >> >> "This is the best of all possible worlds only because it is the only one >> that showed up."-- Russell Edson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 14:10:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: INFO: new york city--tribute to gil scott-heron MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>INFO: new york city--tribute to gil scott-heron ============================================ Artistic Director, Roger C. Jeffrey Subtle Changes presents ... the Statement 7th draft A tribute to the Immortal Gil Scott-Heron Opening Performance and Reception - $50 Friday, February 18, 2005 at 8:00 p.m. Performance Only - $ 25 Friday and Saturday, February 18 and 19 at 8:00 p.m. Sunday, February 20 at 3:00 p.m. Location BRIC Studio 57 Rockwell Place, 2nd Floor Brooklyn, New York between Fulton Street and DeKalb Avenue around the corner from the BAM Harvey Theater For Ticket Information/Reservations eQypt85@cs.com Special Guest: Ayodele Casel, Amanda Diva and Carl Hancock-Rux www.subtlechangesinc.com Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ --^^--------------------------------------------------------------- This email was sent to: ishaq1823@shaw.ca EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bUrD3o.bOf4FO.aXNoYXEx Or send an email to: e-drum-unsubscribe@topica.com For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^^--------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 17:26:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: U of Chicago Poetry & Poetics Program (from Julia Klein) Comments: cc: jnklein@uchicago.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit THE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO POETRY AND POETICS PROGRAM Winter/Spring 2005 Events POEM PRESENT Reading and Lecture Series http://poempresent.uchicago.edu JOANNA KLINK: February 10 & 11 MARY JO BANG: February 24 & 25 CD WRIGHT: March 3 & 4 PIERRE JORIS: April 13 CALVIN BEDIENT: April 21 CONTEMPORARY FRENCH AND AMERICAN POETRY: April 25 MICHAEL FRIED: May 4 & 6 LOCAL TALENT: May 26 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: HISTORY AND FORMS OF LYRIC Lecture Series http://poetics.uchicago.edu/events JAMES CHANDLER, UofC: January 26 "'Endless Imitation': Wordsworth's Great Ode and the Progress of Poetry" RICHARD STRIER, UofC: February 16 "Lyric and Bondage: Some Thoughts on Poetry and Philosophy" CALVIN BEDIENT, UCLA: April 20 Title TBA ELIZABETH HELSINGER, UofC: April 28 Title TBA WILLIAM FLESCH, Brandeis: May 11 "Shakespeare's Self-Quotation" ANDREW FORD, Princeton: May 18 "Aristotle's Hymn to Virtue: Genre-crossing as a capital offense" Locations and times at: http://poetics.uchicago.edu/events For directions to and maps of the UofC campus: http://maps.uchicago.edu/ Poetry & Poetics Program University of Chicago jnklein@uchicago.edu / 773.834.8524 http://poetics.uchicago.edu Julia Klein Program Coordinator Creative Writing and Poetry & Poetics Programs University of Chicago Classics 45G / 773.834.8524 http://creativewriting.uchicago.edu http://poetics.uchicago.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 17:58:43 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: the old rebel poet becomes ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just picked up my copy of Larry Smith's Kenneth Patchen comprehensive bio/study. Here's a link to the 2000 publication and another interesting link which analyzes "23rd Street Runs into Heaven". It also lists quite a few of our Poetics members' blogs. Has anyone else read this book? Any of our Ohioans? Mary Jo _http://www.connectotel.com/patchen/patbiog.html_ (http://www.connectotel.com/patchen/patbiog.html) _http://aaronmccollough.blogspot.com/2004_03_07_aaronmccollough_archive.html_ (http://aaronmccollough.blogspot.com/2004_03_07_aaronmccollough_archive.html) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 17:04:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: Letter to Alan Sondheim that Suddenly Became Public Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original mary thanks will long reply via mairead You poem is good I dont write as much but will "get back to it" when i can; BTW dont worry if people knock your ideas - keep writing and senindg in and the religious thing looked interesting but I wanted to satirise what Robin said - lol my feeling is i write/wrote a lot of poe -or used to and maybe one in ten is/was good.... Richard Taylor Auckland - New Zealand richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet ("Well..." ) / Chess Addict (partly recovered) /Was 15 stone - working on it -/ Grandfather/ BA /NZCE/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: --------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."---------------------- ASPECT BOOKS www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Jo Malo" To: Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 4:54 AM Subject: Letter to Alan Sondheim that Suddenly Became Public > Thanks, Richard, such kind encouraging words for Alan and all of us. > -------------------- > wording it > > always doing it > thinking it > breathing it > when i lie down > hypnogogic hypnopompic > phrases ideas > why didn't i bring > pen & paper to bed > i know i'll forget > the freely flowing > perfect words > or > at work > on off the clock > or > in the kitchen > waiting for the water to boil > stir in the pasta > words circling around > my daughter says > mom you're not listening > you have a blank look > words rolling round > behind my eyes > always > notebook in my pocket > on the park bench > at night > in my lover's ear > oooh that's nice > i love the sound of your voice > put me to sleep baby > keep talking > -------------------- > > . . .some were words i heard or would hear coming from dreams or as i was > falling > asleep etc or the ideas flashed in that "inward eye" . . . > > Keep going Alan - keep going all of you whether on your blogs or by > sending > links or whatever -keep going all of you - all you writers and creators - > ignore that person who attacked the postmodern magazine (or the > non-postmodern > magazine - whatever) with that kind editor St Thomasino - keep on, keep > - > of whatever style or approach -keep on - keep on - regardless - i dont > know > why > Richard Taylor > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 04:27:38 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: Letter to Alan Sondheim that Suddenly Became Public MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > BTW dont worry if people knock your ideas - keep writing and senindg in and > the religious thing looked interesting but I wanted to satirise what Robin > said - lol > > my feeling is i write/wrote a lot of poe -or used to and maybe one in ten > is/was good.... > > Richard Taylor Sorry I didn't pick up on your earlier post, Richard -- I'm currently suffering from Severe Attention Deficit -- but I *did* like your satire. And I think I noticed that Mary somewhere mentions Robert Graves. ... partly I agreed (being someone who cut his poetic teeth as a teenager on Graves, and has an anomalous relation to The White Goddess, both book and concept) but I'd disagree with Mary (unless I picked her up wrongly in one of her later posts) that Graves is a less-than-major poet. Depends which poems you look at, and for a time, Graves' (after at the latest the 68 Collected) seemed to dump his best poems for new trash. But now there's a nice new (three volumes in hardback with notes, one volume in a Penguin paperback if you just want the actual texts) Complete, Re-edited, with even the hard-to-get war poems. Gorgeous. ... as to Laura (Riding) Jackson, well ... I hope this makes sense -- at the moment, I have a worrity bug crawling around the guts of my hard disk, which among other things seems to have trashed the Folder Association where I dump things. This means that I wake-up to 120+ *unsorted* emails, which makes it hard to follow a thread sometimes. No shit!!!! The Whale ("I can write no more -- my brains are broken.") ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 01:30:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Letter to Alan Sondheim that Suddenly Became Public In-Reply-To: <00e401c510d4$3a4af7f0$be2356d2@com747839ba04b> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed This is great writing, not because of what you say about me but because it builds on its own oddly Whitmanesque but also Celine of all people in the excitement, I'd focus on this yourself, you don't need us, just of course your own voice which comes through - of course also thank you for the compliments which make me uncomfortable, at least if I'm deleted by x,y,z, they won't know of the discomfort, think I'm taking it all in, lucky lucky me, it's a ghost they're unreading, unraveling, in their non-reading, non-raveling - I do feel odd of course in replying of course, here, they won't know that it will be our little secret - alan nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 02:25:55 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit white lite white mind burnt thru white time all or 3:00....back...from where?...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 00:45:10 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: Letter to Alan Sondheim that Suddenly Became Public Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Thanks (Mairead and Mary and Alan )! I wasn't sure if I should have pushed the send button.I morphed into a strange state of mind last night - wasnt sure if I was writing crap - getting to invasive or silly or whatever - or what I was doing - I'm trying, I suppose, if I'm trying anything, to do kind of poetry that is also "confessionalist" but also kind of phenomelogic -not that I have studied Husserl etc etc (my definitions of phemonenology basically are from my large Concise Oxford Enclyclopaedic Dictionary and I put my own interpretation on that also) Alan does the "poesay" much better I feel or - I mean - not better -but more logically "connected" that said the 'essays' from Alan (the ones - whichever they are short or long waves as he desribes them in some (intro to The Internet Text) of the 'texts" or more "expository seeming" - possibly they are either deconstructed themselves or are deconstructions of part of a general deconstruction - but I don't really understand that term too well -but they have maybe "slippage" etc - the words evade me here they "slipe slide, perish etc" - but they are like Nick Piombino's in his book "Theoretical Objects" in which his questioning and questing poetics or his poetry is philosophy actioned or it is somewhere between philosphy psychology and poetry - or it is all -or all poetry is also all these and more - the language is frequently more ( keyword = more) - more abstract (abstract is problematic) than say Silliman (who is good at zooming (in) on particulars - George Bowering likes particulars) Bernstein and Heijnian (just some of the many I could name) (all very varied I realise) - some of those in the Language Group (which of course -well its problematic to define what that group is) - but it is closer to these writers - but also has some characteristics of Alans' essays - which often are at the edge of "not" being essays..."poessays" - then there are all the other things going on in \the Internet Text - but I noticed some similarities betwen those two writers (just to pluck one example of two I know).... (maybe of theme and subject and some possibly stylistic I was kind of talking myself up then down then got a bit dramatic when I realised I was "on air" -of course I put myself on air so to speak.. Maybe I will have to start a Blog and disappear...every man woman and their dog are doing blogs nowadays. I will continue to talk to myself and others - so hopefully I wont disappear. Richard Taylor Auckland - New Zealand richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet ("Well..." ) / Chess Addict (partly recoverd) /Was 15 stone - working on it -/ Grandfather/ BA /NZCE/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: --------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."---------------------- ASPECT BOOKS www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mairead Byrne" To: Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 7:23 AM Subject: Re: Letter to Alan Sondheim that Suddenly Became Public > Yes Richard, for someone who has "almost lost interest in writing," you > are fluent. Perhaps your mind is already in the right gear and the > music has started again unbidden as the birds and buds. Anyway as you > say to Alan: don't paint out your sun Richard. > Mairead > > www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com > >>>> richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ 02/12/05 2:26 AM >>> > Alan > > Some brilliant writing as usual - that one on genesis etc looks > interesting -but I'll be surprised if someone doesn't complain how long > it > is - but I wouldn't take any notice unless the moderator objects - you > should be putting your stuff on - > > I also looked at your jpgs etc - varied reactions but I was very > interested > and liked the pictures (not all) - there is an ambiguous quality to them > (of > course its not really a question of liking per se) - as i say - a > disturbing > disturbance they generate in me - but you have put a lot of work into > this > project of yours - there are hundreds of pictures -and some animations > - > that music was good - it came at the right time (for me) after some > thing - > thing! - had disturbed me in one of your "nature" pictures (think of teh > ichneumon wasp, think of death and sex and decay but think of breathing > and > the light and the ectasy, think, adn dont think)- but being "disturbed" > is > ok !! That's never a criticism - irritated - exasperated because > sometimes > perhaps envious ,yes - even angry with Alan - yes - sometimes absolutely > amazed - yes - sometimes not interested - but almost always interesting > (A's > work is never trite) - > > its harder to make effort to connect to peoples' blogs and links I find > - so > you are a lot more likely to be seen (and who knows is looking?) if you > send > direct - and also that is good for me - you know your posts are the main > things I read on the list - i find a lot else is trivia (although I > enjoy > much of the other writers who contribute ) - there is no way I or anyone > is > ever going to "see" your whole work but that's ok its fascinating and as > you > say it resonates so it can be read anyway - in any order - (although > some > people will just "trash it" - but that's the way it always has been > Alan -don't worry about the The Great Deleter of This World ( I think he > deletes everything I send!!) -he has his own world - I don't know what > kind > of poetry he writes - actually I just saw one poem the other day of his > in > an Aussie mag (issued in about 1970!!) - years ago so its probably not > representative - ) - that was also B K Johnoson's idea (to read his > novel - > loose leaved and in a box) in any order..great minds Alan ! > > Re film - I am not greatly into film but I was greatly affected by > Brakhage I saw also NZ's Len Lye's work is strange - he had some rich > strange and interesting ideas - but I can see you being tangential to > these > various 'schools ' - hard to place you - which is probably good - is > good - > you not only cant be placed you cant be replaced !! > > most of what I wrote my "middle period" - and quite a bit was published > here > and there - was simply written (and simply re(a)d ! hope not!)- as if I > was > composing music - without much conscious thought so to speak - often no > idea what I was about to write about or why (sometimes kind of > responding to > music or art) I was making a kind of music with words I suppose - I > couldn't > explain much of it ( i really got a "buzz" only when I could read it > aloud > to people: publish by voice and presence was me then... I was popular as > a > reader in Auckland - but I stopped becasue i used to drink a lot at the > same > time (and get caught by the cops driving ( some strange stories there!! > - > nealy killed myself a few times ..i think....) and terrorising women and > have public fights (they wernt very good fights lol) with my ex and or > her > lovers etc etc etc etc -madness - madness!! - all gone - no (hardly > any) > feeling for even sex now -hence passion gone -maybe drive gone also -all > gone - gone! gone! gone! - all gone thank god ) so I avoid readings > now) > ( I dont go to many social events as such ) (and not drinking and > walking > and being healthy are great - being alive is enough - (going public now > Alan) - love it - the readings and the adulations - and even any poetry > at > all - can go if need be - into the fire - burn all my writings - enflame > I > command you!! enflame !! free me - words !! > > - as long as I feel good - but that isnt your case I know - your are > passionate - driven) - > > and I was dark but driven in those drink times > > and words came > > some were words i heard or would hear coming from dreams or as i was > falling > asleep etc or the ideas flashed in that "inward eye" - lol! (lol -it - > the > term -irritates me but I keep using it) > > After a while I found I wrote everything too quickly and too easily - > then I > thought of doing a project (well before I even got a computer ) but have > really done much on it (to be looking at all these writers around me > with > ther various ideas and projects etc and yours in particular ( I may have > to > stop looking if I want to get any confidence to write!) (my father told > me > the story years ago - Turner is said to have one of his paintings beside > some other artist in an exhibition -and someone pointed out how his sun > blazed so much it put the other work in the shade so to speak - so he > painted his sun out with black paint!) (but dont paint out your sun > Alan!) - > i doubt I really had anything original to contribute in my projected > project(s) that had not been said elsewhere - or whatever) - I m not > very > energetic and now I have more or less -almost lost interest in writing - > but > I know if i put my mind into the right gear the music will start > again..or > it might just come - unbidden as the buds and birds of spring!- it -my > brain/mind is eating up ideas for now (well either that or its just > shutting > down!)... > > You affect this person in any case Alan...lol (use that cyber shorthand > everyday in chess on the net - especially when I make a stupid blunder!) > > Keep going Alan - keep going all of you whether on your blogs or by > sending > links or whatever -keep going all of you - all you writers and creators > - > ignore that person who attacked the postmodern magazine (or the > non-postmodern magazine - whatever) with that kind editor St Thomasino - > keep on, keep on - of whatever style or approach -keep on - keep on - > regardless - i dont know why > > > Richard Taylor > > Auckland - New Zealand > > richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz > > Poet ("Well..." ) / Chess Addict (partly recovered) /Was 15 stone - > working > on it -/ Grandfather/ BA /NZCE/ General Layabout and Sometime > Bookaphile: > > --------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice > cream."---------------------- > > ASPECT BOOKS www.abebooks.com > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 03:46:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: An interactive video poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is some interactive video for you: http://vispo.com/kearns/modemspeed2.htm . It's called 'Not Negotiating a New Canadian Constitution' and uses a 1974 video poem by Lionel Kearns, Gordon Payne, and Peter Huse called 'Negotiating a New Canadian Constitution'. The interactivity comes about largely via either clicking the video in the lower left-hand corner or, equivalently, the 'bonk button' at top left. Repeated clicks and then mousings around reveal different ways to not negotiate a new Canadian constitution and a different approach to video on the web. There are also a couple more buttons at top left to adjust time and volume. The video is part of a larger work called 'On Lionel Kearns'. If the first part of 'On Lionel Kearns' at http://vispo.com/kearns is concerned with binary process, then you might say this is the unary part. The binary theme is concerned with the on off the yes no the 0 1 the nothing something the content form the hot cold the ouch oh the sex death the bang bang the the the. But 'Not Negotiating a New Canadian Constitution' is just plain 'no'. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 11:29:01 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Graves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robin, Graves is definitely a major poet but more importantly a genius whose poetic language theory remains largely unexplored or validated. Actually, I think he proved his theory so thoroughly and painstakingly that no one wants to dispute it. Thanks for the heads up on new publications. His work historically traces the thought-language transition from the matriarchal feminine view of life to the patriarchal. Perhaps it was time for a change, but the greater questions remains, why did it happen? Poetry had power and produced tangible results in people's lives. That goddess formulaic poetry was both abruptly and gradually usurped by the vulgar rhymesters of the cross & crown was no less than a phenomenological and philosophical coup. However, most modern poetry has staged another coup, in wresting it from the hands & lips of the vulgar rhymesters of church and state. I'm satisfied that modern poetry has accomplished so much, and in fact, may have indeed returned it to those subliminal & quantum rhythms suggested earlier. Poetry is about everything now, nothing taboo, nothing sacred. I await something powerful and new in language of which poetry will play a great part in our society, something to restore its potency, like say a fertility or e.d. drug. Mary Jo "But now there's a nice new (three volumes in hardback with notes, one volume in a Penguin paperback if you just want the actual texts) Complete, Re-edited, with even the hard-to-get war poems. Gorgeous." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 17:06:53 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: Graves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mary: > Graves is definitely a major poet Agreed. > but more importantly a genius whose poetic > language theory remains largely unexplored or validated. This tripwires across the whole Laura (Riding) Jackson issue. > Actually, I think > he proved his theory so thoroughly and painstakingly that no one wants to > dispute it. Frankly, I think this rates the comment, "Blah!" Robin << > Thanks for the heads up on new publications. His work historically > traces the thought-language transition from the matriarchal feminine view of > life to the patriarchal. Perhaps it was time for a change, but the greater > questions remains, why did it happen? Poetry had power and produced tangible > results in people's lives. That goddess formulaic poetry was both abruptly and > gradually usurped by the vulgar rhymesters of the cross & crown was no less > than a phenomenological and philosophical coup. However, most modern poetry has > staged another coup, in wresting it from the hands & lips of the vulgar > rhymesters of church and state. I'm satisfied that modern poetry has accomplished > so much, and in fact, may have indeed returned it to those subliminal & > quantum rhythms suggested earlier. Poetry is about everything now, nothing taboo, > nothing sacred. I await something powerful and new in language of which > poetry will play a great part in our society, something to restore its potency, > like say a fertility or e.d. drug. > > Mary Jo >> All I can say is: Joseph Campbell. Jung lives, Graves died (so to speak) in 1916. Much as I admire Graves as a poet, there are better linguists. C3P0 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 18:24:57 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: Graves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What is a genius? How does one recognise it? Why is it so important that someone is one? L -----Original Message----- From: Mary Jo Malo To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: 12 February 2005 16:29 Subject: Graves >Graves is definitely a major poet but more importantly a genius ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 14:07:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Graves In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Are there any anthropologists or linguists working in say the past 20 years who take the matriarchy/patriarchy shift seriously? Is there any evidence? I know a fair number of people in the field, of all genders. Many are active feminists. None think it merits a second thought. But my experience is anecdotal. I'd be happy to hear otherwise. Mark At 11:29 AM 2/12/2005, you wrote: >Robin, > >Graves is definitely a major poet but more importantly a genius whose poetic >language theory remains largely unexplored or validated. Actually, I think >he proved his theory so thoroughly and painstakingly that no one wants to >dispute it. Thanks for the heads up on new publications. His work historically >traces the thought-language transition from the matriarchal feminine view of >life to the patriarchal. Perhaps it was time for a change, but the greater >questions remains, why did it happen? Poetry had power and produced tangible >results in people's lives. That goddess formulaic poetry was both abruptly and >gradually usurped by the vulgar rhymesters of the cross & crown was no less >than a phenomenological and philosophical coup. However, most modern >poetry has >staged another coup, in wresting it from the hands & lips of the vulgar >rhymesters of church and state. I'm satisfied that modern poetry >has accomplished >so much, and in fact, may have indeed returned it to those subliminal & >quantum rhythms suggested earlier. Poetry is about everything now, >nothing taboo, >nothing sacred. I await something powerful and new in language of which >poetry will play a great part in our society, something to restore its >potency, >like say a fertility or e.d. drug. > >Mary Jo > >"But now there's a nice new (three volumes in hardback with notes, one >volume in a Penguin paperback if you just want the actual texts) Complete, >Re-edited, with even the hard-to-get war poems. Gorgeous." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 14:57:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: quote for amy king Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 "Constipation is a sign of good health in pomeranians."=20 =20 Samuel Beckett=20 =20 www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae=20 =20 --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 17:12:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: blue poets in a red state--Arkansas???? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anybody know some blue poets in Arkansas? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 17:43:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Graves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit says the golden ass ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 17:43:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Graves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit graves graves graves graves graves graves graves graves graves graves graves graves graves graves graves gravesgravesgravesgravesgravesgravesgravesgravesgravesgravesgravesgravesg ravesgraves graves graves graves graves graves graves graves graves graves graves ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 15:01:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Larsen Subject: Re: Graves In-Reply-To: <010401c51125$402a18d0$309f9951@Robin> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed You stepped in it, Robin, when at 09:06 AM 2/12/2005, you wrote: >All I can say is: Joseph Campbell. > >Jung lives, Graves died Since you're not averse to taking a mocking tone, I feel empowered to tell you what a ridiculous backwater the work of Jung & Campbell appears to numbers of us. The "collective unconscious" model of culture hasn't been a serious contender for decades, and I'm surprised to see Jung & Campbell introduced as a contemporary rebuttal to anything. If laughable, Graves and his theories are at least quaint and literary. For a real belly laugh check out the book _Aryan Christ_ by Richard Noll --it's got all the dirt on Jung and mystical Teutonic race-fantasy. --Remembering Robin's contributions to last year's Tolkien debate, I expect he will question the relevance of race in Jung's work. But has anyone seen the 1936 essay on "Wotan"? Achtung. I shouldn't hate, because the same could be said about Georges Dumezil who was a lifelong rightwinger and race-fantasist if not worse, and I find him completely mesmerizing. But at least he was working with real data, Indo-Euro linguistic data I mean, and historicizing it in a way that Jung and Campbell never seem to have felt necessary. Really you couldn't have named 2 bigger blockheads, sociologically speaking. In answer to Mark's question about the matriarchy/patriarchy shift, I can recommend a great article by Joan Bamberger, "The Myth of Matriarchy: Why Men Rule in Primitive Culture" that appears in the collection _Women, Culture, and Society_ (Stanford Univ.P., 1974). Again, watch those toesies because she's a keen intellectual historian and rather a skeptic. I'm not trying to fight, though. Happy Valentines LRSN ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 15:04:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: blue poets in a red state--Arkansas???? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable But, are they blue poets? Who knows! =20 a.. Contemporary Arkansas Poets (*a list-in-progress) b.. Beggs, Marck L. Godworm (Mellen Poetry Press) c.. Budy, Andrea Hollander The Other Life (Story Line Press) House Without a Dreamer (Story Line Press) d.. Burns, Ralph Swamp Candles (University of Iowa) Mozart's Starling (Ohio Review) Us (Cleveland State University) Windy Tuesday Nights (Milkweed Editions) Any Given Day (University of Alabama) e.. Butler, Jack The Kid Who Wanted to Be a Spaceman (August House) West of Hollywood (August House) f.. Clark Closser His Times (Church of the Mind Press) g.. Crawford, John I Have Become Familiar with the Rain (Mellen Poetry Press) Making the Connection (Mellen Poetry Press) h.. Heffernan, Michael Another Part of the Island (Salmon Poetry) The Back Road to Arcadia (Salmon Poetry) Love's Answer (University of Iowa) The Man at Home (University of Arkansas) To the Wreakers of Havoc (University of Georgia) The Cry of Oliver Hardy (University of Georgia) i.. Jauss, David Improvising Rivers (Cleveland State University) j.. Lake, Paul Walking Backward Another Kind of Travel (University of Chicago) k.. Lott, Rick The Apple Picker's Children (Texas Review) l.. Martinovic, Lisa Poemedy m.. McDougall, Jo From Darkening Porches (University of Arkansas) Towns Facing Railroads (University of Arkansas) The Woman in the Next Booth (Book Mark Press) n.. Moossy, Brenda Anaconda o.. Newth, Rebecca Great North Woods p.. Powell, Susan Women Who Paint Tall Houses (Golden Tongue Press) q.. Redhawk The Way of Power (Hohm Press) The Sioux Dog Dance (Cleveland State University) Journey of the Medicine Man (August House) r.. Stanford, Frank The Light the Dead See: Selected Poems (University of Arkansas) s.. Whitehead, James Local Men (University of Illinois Press) Domains (Louisiana State University Press) t.. Williams, Miller Points of Departure (LSU) Living on the Surface: New & Selected Poems (LSU) Patterns of Poetry (LSU) several other collections u.. Wright, C.D. Tremble (Ecco Press) String Light (University of Georgia) Just Whistle Further Adventures with You Translations of the Gospel Back into Tongues Terrorism Room Rented by a Single Woman Alla Breve Loving v.. Wright, Terry What the Black Box Said (Mellen Poetry Press) * If you have any suggestions for adding to this list, please email me = at beggs@hsu.edu. By "contemporary," I mean either living or having died = within the last generation. By "Arkansas," I mean poets who either live = and write here now, or who published substantial works while living in = Arkansas. back to the WORDS homepage ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Michael Rothenberg=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 2:12 PM Subject: blue poets in a red state--Arkansas???? Anybody know some blue poets in Arkansas? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 10:06:43 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: Graves In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.2.20050212114007.01c63938@socrates.berkeley.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 13/2/05 10:01 AM, "David Larsen" wrote: > If laughable, Graves and > his theories are at least quaint and literary. The thing I find most bracing about Graves is his insistence that his innate poetic knowledge as a Poet trumps boring old rational theorising any day. And why not? It makes him a most intriguing fantasist, even if he does get lost in his own metaphors. Best A Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 18:16:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Re: Graves In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.2.20050212114007.01c63938@socrates.berkeley.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Youth is wasted on the Jung. Nick P. On 2/12/05 6:01 PM, "David Larsen" wrote: > You stepped in it, Robin, when at 09:06 AM 2/12/2005, you wrote: > >> All I can say is: Joseph Campbell. >> >> Jung lives, Graves died > > Since you're not averse to taking a mocking tone, I feel empowered to tell > you what a ridiculous backwater the work of Jung & Campbell appears to > numbers of us. The "collective unconscious" model of culture hasn't been a > serious contender for decades, and I'm surprised to see Jung & Campbell > introduced as a contemporary rebuttal to anything. If laughable, Graves and > his theories are at least quaint and literary. For a real belly laugh check > out the book _Aryan Christ_ by Richard Noll --it's got all the dirt on Jung > and mystical Teutonic race-fantasy. --Remembering Robin's contributions to > last year's Tolkien debate, I expect he will question the relevance of race > in Jung's work. But has anyone seen the 1936 essay on "Wotan"? Achtung. > > I shouldn't hate, because the same could be said about Georges Dumezil who > was a lifelong rightwinger and race-fantasist if not worse, and I find him > completely mesmerizing. But at least he was working with real data, > Indo-Euro linguistic data I mean, and historicizing it in a way that Jung > and Campbell never seem to have felt necessary. Really you couldn't have > named 2 bigger blockheads, sociologically speaking. > > In answer to Mark's question about the matriarchy/patriarchy shift, I can > recommend a great article by Joan Bamberger, "The Myth of Matriarchy: Why > Men Rule in Primitive Culture" that appears in the collection _Women, > Culture, and Society_ (Stanford Univ.P., 1974). Again, watch those toesies > because she's a keen intellectual historian and rather a skeptic. > > I'm not trying to fight, though. Happy Valentines LRSN ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 18:50:03 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: graves, graves, graves, graves . . . MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, Steve. All I can say to that is that Robert offered a not too shocking theory that women will a pul ye ass into the grave sooner or later. Fortunately, in his case it was much later. He was a glutton for punishment after he worshipped the golden ass of Laura Ryder. Regarding scholarship, mythology, archaeology, and various interdisciplinary works have promoted the m/p 'thing' which is recorded in religious texts themselves if only in the minds of the male reformers. Graves, Jung, Frazer, and Campbell may not have been quantum physicists but their ideas have entranced thinkers/readers who long suspected that religion had pulled the wool over our powers of reasons for millenia. If it wasn't for their efforts and inspiration, they'd still be teaching creationism in public schools as fact rather than a part of mythology. Also, I think the abundant Gilgamesh studies provide evidence of the m/p shift. Genius is that rare creative ability to synthesis ideas and provide insight and meaning where old structures of understanding are failing. Genii are like muses that inspired them. Mary Jo ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 16:33:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Larsen Subject: Re: Graves In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Or is it "Jung is wasted on the Youth"? Hi Nick, and sorry for all the good things about Jung I'm sure I slighted in my post. I have nothing to say against the therapeutic value of his work, only the cultural history. And I'm sure I don't even know enough about that. Hope this finds you well, take care --David L. At 03:16 PM 2/12/2005, you wrote: >Youth is wasted on the Jung. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 00:33:41 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: graves, graves, graves, graves . . . MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit for the genius was a boojum you see L -----Original Message----- From: Mary Jo Malo To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: 12 February 2005 23:50 Subject: graves, graves, graves, graves . . . . Genius is that rare creative ability to synthesis >ideas and provide insight and meaning where old structures of understanding >are failing. Genii are like muses that inspired them. > >Mary Jo > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 18:08:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: POG Saturday Feb 19: Jena Osman, Dawn Pendergast, Tiffany MacFerrin Comments: To: Tenney Nathanson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable POG=20 presents poets Jena Osman =20 Tiffany MacFerrin =20 Dawn Pendergast Saturday, February 19, 7pm,=20 ORTSPACE 121 E. 7th Street (use entry on east side of building, at alley door) Admission: $5; Students $3 also: Jena Osman "War in/of Words: Searching for Poethical Models":=20 a talk and roundtable discussion with poet Jena Osman Saturday, February 19, 3pm,=20 Dinnerware Contemporary Art Gallery, 210 N. Fourth Ave Admission: $5; Students $3 =20 Jena Osman teaches in the graduate writing program at Temple University. = She has published six books of poetry: Jury (Meow Press, 1996), Amblyopia (Avenue B, 1993), The Lab-Book (Poetics Program at SUNY Buffalo, 1992), Balance (Leave Books, 1992), Underwater Dive: Version One (Paradigm = Press, 1990) and Twelve Parts of Her (Burning Deck Press, 1989). Her poetry has also been anthologized in The Art of Practice: Forty-Five Contemporary Poets, as well as Subliminal Time and Writing From the New Coast: Presentation. She is the co-editor (with Juliana Spahr) of Chain, a = journal that investigates language in its various presentational frames. See: =20 Jena Osman EPC home page: http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/osman/ The Periodic Table As Assembled by Dr. Zhivago, Oculist: http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/osman/periodic/ Dead Text:=20 http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/osman/deadtext.html Tiffany MacFerrin is an original Tucson specimen, guilty of subjecting cohorts to spontaneous singing on the streets after a few beats of the = wind in her hair. She is too often having work to fun hard on her poetry, = but come hear, if you dare, what stars might explode in midair!=20 Dawn Pendergast is a second-year MFA student at University of Arizona. = She received her MA in Performance Studies at NYU and a BS in Science, Technology, and Culture at Georgia Institute of Technology. She = currently teaches creative writing and works for the University of Arizona Poetry Center. See: Reconstructions: http://www.clockwatching.net/~spoon/reconstructions/reconstructions.html = Epithelium: http://www.clockwatching.net/~spoon/epithelium/index.html * Abstract for the Roundtable Discussion=20 with Jena Osman: Poet-critic Joan Retallack has described the poethical art form as "a = form of life in which we would, in our most enlightened moments, want to live = - [that] which makes the intricate complexity of the intersecting = intentional and accidental that is our world known to us through the sensory and imaginative enactment of complex forms" ("Accident ...Aeroplane ...Artichoke"). I've been thinking about this concept in relation to a comment Anne Waldman made a year or so ago at the Kelley Writers House = in Philadelphia about how now is a time of "outrageous metaphor and = terrible misnomers," what she called a kind of "interior terrorism." She said = that the best thing we can do right now as writers is study euphemism. Poet-critic Barrett Watten said in a talk called "War=3DLanguage" that = "We need to take the mechanized hardware of the language of war apart - by locating alternate evidence in multiple media, by questioning the pseudo-objectivity of its delusional conclusions, by unpacking its = embedded metaphors and narrative frames, by thinking otherwise." There seemed to = be a necessary hope that as writers, pointing to language itself is a first = step toward action. But in what ways is that pointing poethical? Are there = ways to critique the topical world, the world of events, while at the same = time providing alternative "poethical" forms? In other words, in what ways = can words in poems make war, and in what ways can they make peace? =20 * POG events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council, the Arizona Commission on the Arts, and the National Endowment = for the Arts. POG also benefits from the continuing support of The = University of Arizona Poetry Center, the Arizona Quarterly, Chax Press, and The = University of Arizona Department of English. =20 thanks to our growing list of 2004-2005 Patrons and Sponsors:=20 =20 . Corporate Patrons Buffalo Exchange and GlobalEye Systems . Individual Patrons Millie Chapin, Elizabeth Landry, Allison Moore, Liisa Phillips, Jessica Thompson, , and Rachel Traywick . Corporate Sponsors Antennae a Journal of Experimental Poetry and Music/Performance, Bookman's, Chax Press, Jamba Juice, Kaplan Test Prep = and Admissions, Kore Press, Macy's, Reader's Oasis, and Zia Records . Individual Sponsors Suzanne Clores, Sheila Murphy, and Desiree Rios =20 We're also grateful to hosts and programming partners . Casa Libre en La Solana Inn & Guest House . Dinnerware Contemporary Arts gallery . Las Artes Center (see stories in El Independiente and the Tucson Weekly) . O-T-O Dance at ORTSPACE . MOCA (Museum of Contemporary Art) . Alamo Gallery (see this Tucson Arts District page) =20 for links to the web pages of our various donors and partners, and for = lots of other material, please visit us on the web at www.gopog.org=20 or for further information contact=20 POG: 615-7803, mailto:pog@gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:28:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the tiniest the smallworldmurmur s images MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed the smallworldmurmur s images small exquisite murmurs of the world murmuringshoresoftime inconceivablebeauty s withdrawnslowly murmuringsilent lovely s http://www.asondheim.org/smallworldmurmur114306.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/smallworldmurmur114305.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/smallworldmurmur114304.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/smallworldmurmur114303.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/smallworldmurmur114302.jpg ___ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:44:56 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: Graves Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original This indeed a grave matter - but are we at Graves End? I was reading some of Graves poetry last night - and a lot is quite beautiful and unique - but so far cant say his criticism of Eliot and Pound were jsutified - both are greater poets - but in a sense he has been "neglected" - but he has not really contributed to 20th Cent developments inliterature of a radical kind - Riding maybe different - I believe she was had some original and fierce ideas...passionate about the truth of words etc - her famous hiatus but to be fair or unfair as the case may or may not be - I havent read muchof Graves - aminlysen the TV progarm "I Caludius ' as discussed with Robin . that was excellent - I believe his book on Greek Myhtolgy is good also. chortle flog moggle and fling fliggel me skiddlers if i'm not a booustard oile bey boounde Richard Taylor Auckland - New Zealand richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet ("Well..." ) / Chess Addict (partly recovered) /Was 15 stone - working on it -/ Grandfather/ BA /NZCE/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: --------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."---------------------- ASPECT BOOKS www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Jo Malo" To: Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 8:29 AM Subject: Graves > Robin, > > Graves is definitely a major poet but more importantly a genius whose > poetic > language theory remains largely unexplored or validated. Actually, I > think > he proved his theory so thoroughly and painstakingly that no one wants to > dispute it. Thanks for the heads up on new publications. His work > historically > traces the thought-language transition from the matriarchal feminine view > of > life to the patriarchal. Perhaps it was time for a change, but the greater > questions remains, why did it happen? Poetry had power and produced > tangible > results in people's lives. That goddess formulaic poetry was both abruptly > and > gradually usurped by the vulgar rhymesters of the cross & crown was no > less > than a phenomenological and philosophical coup. However, most modern > poetry has > staged another coup, in wresting it from the hands & lips of the vulgar > rhymesters of church and state. I'm satisfied that modern poetry has > accomplished > so much, and in fact, may have indeed returned it to those subliminal & > quantum rhythms suggested earlier. Poetry is about everything now, > nothing taboo, > nothing sacred. I await something powerful and new in language of which > poetry will play a great part in our society, something to restore its > potency, > like say a fertility or e.d. drug. > > Mary Jo > > "But now there's a nice new (three volumes in hardback with notes, one > volume in a Penguin paperback if you just want the actual texts) Complete, > Re-edited, with even the hard-to-get war poems. Gorgeous." > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 20:54:30 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: new fiction/milk magazine Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed New fiction at milk magazine http://www.milkmag.org/vol6home.html James H. BATH Joel BRUSSELL Geoffrey FOX Nicholas GRIDER Jnana HODSON Paul KAVANAGH Marie Monroe METCALF Bryan McMILLAN Bonnie RUBERG Arlene TRIBBIA Stoyan VALEV Jerry VILHOTTI Brian WILLEMS _____________________ editor/Larry Sawyer fiction editor, web/Lina ramona Vitkauskas ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 03:08:03 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: Graves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm not sure that we're really that far apart, here, David. > You stepped in it, Robin, when at 09:06 AM 2/12/2005, you wrote: > > >All I can say is: Joseph Campbell. > > > >Jung lives, Graves died "Graves died" -- I was thinking specifically of the edge-of-death phenomenon he describes in GoodbyeTAT, when he was almost blown apart by a German shell. > Since you're not averse to taking a mocking tone, I feel empowered to tell > you That's K, I can take it. > what a ridiculous backwater the work of Jung & Campbell appears to > numbers of us. I should have made this clearer, but I'd distinguish between Campbell and Jung. Campbell (and I'm sorry to be so crude) strikes me as a boring fart who never had a single original idea in his life. Jung, in contrast, while ofter barking mad, seems to me (still) interesting. (Though there is a problem in that, unlike Freud and as far as I can judge from the English translations of his work, he wrote badly.) I linked the three -- obviously awkwardly -- as examplars of myth-creation. I wouldn't base *any* linguistic, let alone psychoanalytical, theory on their work. (Linguistically, I suppose I'm closest to Halliday. Give me a formalist Edinburgh Maoist any day. Psychology I simply know nothing about, except to recognise that whatever importance Jung has, it isn't based on the efficacy of his therapeutic methods.) > The "collective unconscious" model of culture hasn't been a > serious contender for decades, and I'm surprised to see Jung & Campbell > introduced as a contemporary rebuttal to anything. Did I? If so, I apologise > If laughable, Graves and > his theories are at least quaint and literary. I think more than that -- _Survey of Modernist Poetry_ (the bits Graves wrote, not Riding) is a pretty seminal EngLit text (Empsom picked-up on parts of it in 7Types, and it's worn better than Leavis in ways), and as well as the poetry, his novels -- both the Claudius ones and, say, _Antigua Penny Puce and "The Shout" -- aren't to be discounted. However (and I'm sorry if I gave this impression) I don't think any of the three, Campbell, Graves, or Jung, are reliable "scholarly" guides. > For a real belly laugh check > out the book _Aryan Christ_ by Richard Noll --it's got all the dirt on Jung > and mystical Teutonic race-fantasy. --Remembering Robin's contributions to > last year's Tolkien debate, I expect he will question the relevance of race > in Jung's work. But has anyone seen the 1936 essay on "Wotan"? Achtung. Actually, what I find it most difficult to forgive Jung for is the utter nonsense of his commentary on Flying Saucers. But then, we all get old, some faster than others. Dunno if this makes things better or worse, or more or less clear > I'm not trying to fight, though. Happy Valentines LRSN Me neither. Care, Robin ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 20:51:10 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: Graves Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Robin--- which parts are those; how do you separate out the authorship in this collab? Chris ---------- >From: Robin Hamilton >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Graves >Date: Sat, Feb 12, 2005, 7:08 PM > > I think more than that -- _Survey of Modernist Poetry_ (the bits Graves > wrote, not Riding) is a pretty seminal EngLit text (Empsom picked-up on > parts of it in 7Types, and it's worn better than Leavis in ways), ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 23:51:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: darling, she said softly, look at the twinklers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed darling, she said softly, look at the twinklers, in the night driven hard by twinkers, their tangled rays drawn out by twiners ruled by supernatural twiner - while we are bound by golden twine, together we shall quaff the wine - in this world, everyone will win, more or less our love is in, so say i ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 00:56:17 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: the old rebel poet becomes ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have read the Patchen book. Do I win something? Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 00:49:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The Letter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed The Letter Yesterday, Azure and I found a letter in a second-hand book on ecology. The letter was from a prisoner in a New York State correctional facility. It was addressed to a woman in Queens, New York. The letter used the word "nigga" extensively, and threatened to kill the married "nigga" who was fucking his woman, whom he loved. It was four pages in length, and veered wildly from death threats to protestations of love. It was awkwardly written, and the prisoner apologizes for the poor quality of the paper, almost school notebook paper, the kind with the thin blue lines. My impulse was to 'make a work' from the letter, which had been discarded in the book, to use the text in one or another fashion. But the text seemed too powerful, too angry, too sad, to do anything with it. I talked it over with Azure and our friends. At one point, I was going to throw it out; at another, file it away as a reminder of the vastly different worlds present in slaughter-america under the bush regime. I finally decided the best was to remail the letter in the original envelope to the original recipient. Perhaps she had lost it, perhaps it had frightened her so much that she subconsciously left it behind when she turned the book in for textbook credit. Our friends gave us two stamps and tape, and with the envelope resealed, I sent it on its way though a local mailbox. On the envelope I wrote, 'found this in a book and thought you may want it.' I didn't sign it, the separation was permanent. I had an odd sense of loss, which haunts me. I have used found materials if they 'resonate' before - for example, webcam images that are then transformed, arranged, semantically 'intensified.' But this letter was too strong - or if not strong - violent - or if not violent - symptomatic - it was too dis/comforting, as if real life permanently intruded on what, in my work, in all work, can be at best metaphoric conceits, no matter how we think otherwise. The letter was uncanny. It demanded, it appeared to demand, to be read, absorbed, to fit in, as if returning were a coward's way out - for there was no indication that she would have done anything but discarded it, perhaps after class. The envelope was thick, immediately evident within the pages of the ecology text, surely she would have put it away, somewhere, anywhere, if she had wanted to save it. And the undeniable violence of it all mitigated against this, I could only imagine that she had moved on, that she wanted as much distance as possible from the writer, that the letter was a reminder of an uncomfortable past, one which could never be absorbed, could never fit in with her current lifestyle. The letter was close to illiterate, she was in college, and the text was somewhat advanced, with a cdrom illustrating ecological processes, and quite clearly often played. There is a weakness and pretense in all writing, in all art, as if 'my love is like a red, red, rose' said anything at all that rearranged the molecular epistemology of things on the planet. Art murmurs presumably to the soul, it calls us to action, makes us feel better about the world, or gives us an expressivity for the violent tendencies of the times. Or it allows us to push the boundaries of comfort, dis/comfort, in new ways, for dis/comfort speaks in art of a 'newness' that is non-existent. It takes one letter in a book on ecology to contradict each and every other form of cultural construction, a letter from a sender who had no idea whatsoever that it would form the punctum of an essay, nor, I suspect, would he care. He would care about his woman who was no longer his woman, his love who had betrayed him, and he would kill the perpetrator of that betrayal who surely was not her. This short essay can't go anywhere, it can only point to a found object, a letter, which could not be subsumed. And within that lack, on my part, is an incredible selfishness, that the debris of the world is there, in the first place, to be used. To be primordially used. To be used by a writer or an artist. To be absorbed, to be robbed of originary content. And while that may be the premise and promise of art, it remains a hole in this page. Debris is never debris, or it is someone's, or it is no one's, but it is never debris, just like there are never vermin or weeds, words which I detest for their inherent elitism. Debris is nothing but the world, and it is the world which rends and renders artwork useless, meaningless, at best with meaning grafted by the reader who has no choice. _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:55:53 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: my definition of a boombasta afrougoisie vs rebels unlimited (redux) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT my definition of a boombasta afrougoisie ------------------------------------------------------------------------ my definition of a boombasta afrougoisie vs rebels unlimited ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "As a young Muslim Black male in America I feel under attack on many fronts. I can handle being under attack, but it's heartbreaking - at times-- to feel as though I have no comrades. ..." amir sulaiman my definition of a boombasta afrougiosie: the impotence of revolution in a corperate tranquility the question on the floor massa speaka was; "Whats keeping us from doing what Middle East Militants do?" actually, it's not just the middle eastern resistence/freedome fighters who are "fighting the power". it is the entire world -- peep the papers... check the few free press griots hell........ while we get right wing extremist sellouts = condi rice, colin powell and barack obama ("afrikan"?) -- 60yr old white women, pissed off white kids, natives youth and 12yr so called "arabs" are doing more for the cause of justice, light and freedome than the north amerikkkan so called afrikan. ...now. unfortunately, the so called "afrikan" of north amerikkka, who resides in the belly of the beast (of what is the greatest threat to world freedome justice equalty and have/are murdered (ing) houndreds of thousands of people around the world -- if not in their own country) is so controlled and infultrated that the moment any threat to the establishement even blinks, the govt operatives, or rass corperate whore wanna bes, are ready to attack, discredit, ostrasize, distract (the masses), neutralize, humiliate and have imprisioned and have killed the dissident (s) since the times of marcus garvey and the agent 800 to this very day. the afroamerikkkanadian, especially since the hip hop "take em out" attitude was approved by corperate amerikkka, is too busy aktin like "crabs in the barral" = attacking any threat to what might stand between establishing themselves as the top o de pop cult torture and scrilla, to clic (k) up and do what the rest of the world is/are doing. it was always about, not freedome justice equality b.u.t., shufflin like the jeffersons or walking like utraamerikkkan w.a.s.p. and gettin a 'peice o de pie' squared to the massive accumulation of stuff, a credit rating and maybe a taxbreak. "For the master's tools will never dismantle the master's house. They may temporarily allow us to beat him down at his own game, but they will never enable us to bring about genuine change." - Audre Lorde remember the main point in the f.b.i and, prior to that, the colonial powers, in the directive to the control of the, what william carlos williams refered as, "pure products of ameri(kkk)a" = (blacks in north amerikkka) was to insure they did not get a black "messiah" and to destroy the black male. ...all nonpassive (freethinking -- if not -- analytical) black males are to be considered possible black "messiahs" or candidates in the running for the doomed position and, therefore; are to be considered threats to the system. ...and so all black males (as is the case with native males in kkkanada), under the age of 18yr, are in especially grave danger of death via urban accidents = (police or opertatives or self esteem demolition techniques to guns or drugs/down to dumbed = narcotization) who remain rebellious and seek actualization = to destratify/deterrorialize ...who gain speed to jump to the next plateux. ...black males (like other internal opertatives) are assigned to destroy the black male; more than a few black women, under the guise of white euro feminazism, have done their share. <>"You may not realize that part of the strategy of the government is to put you all against each other. If the enemy sees you trying to organize, he will send people to organize you. He says, You have a spirit to come together, but I am going to make sure that whoever leads you is my man. This is the way the enemy thinks. He always sets up a counterweight or a counter movement. Fifteen years ago, when the Berlin Wall was torn down because East and West Germany decided to be one Germany, many of the CIA operatives working in Eastern Europe were brought back to the United States and assigned to gangs. What was the aim of the government? Why do you think the only industry thriving today is the industry of prisons? Why do you think prisons are now on the stock market? People are investing in the prospect of Blacks and Latinos filling the jails. " -- Minister Louis Farrakhan -- "A Special Message to Street Organizations (Crips & Blood)" http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2005/02/37654.php http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_1733.shtml dat was dah plan my mayn ...now (since islam and muslims, urban guerillas and dissidents have been and are too radical and seemingly untamable for the massa of the house) the trend is to "distract" the black youth with a vision of an unattainable, undefinable, sublime commercialized "afrikan" consciuosness CONtroLLed by the few in a mongolian cluster f**k point system like pyramid scam = create a reservation stylee currupt "elder" system to control the masses of rowdy black youth under the guise of guidence (keep them occupied with ritual and away from resistence -- with apolly ogies to stuart hall). anyone, who even questions, adds on, or criticizes this or asks too many questions -- as is in the case with amerikkka and terrorism (you're with us or against us and "daemonacracy"), the gay community (homophobia), the so called left (paranoia and suburban colonial middle -class white supremacy) and communism (dissidents and nonpersons) -- is immediatley assaulted on all fronts which pertain the profiled catagory they have been assigned to -- thus dealt with accordingly. "...the Amerikkkan Empire today... is hell bent on acting out it's plans for global hegemony,..., to usurp such resources from the poor and destitute and re-apportion them to the fatcats that helped to create and sustain the Empire. To spread the corruption and vice that infects it's own society and that it's own people speak out against...." -- from "Muharram the month of revolution"* listen...hear here..... now, it is very easy to decieve the general afroamerikkkan peoples because amerikkkan educational system is so poor and even worse in lower income and minority neighbourhoods -- latino, black, natives and poor whites. therefore, it is easy to get them to become suspicious of the ever feared "intellectual" and the "other" -- considering these under privilaged peoples (the masses) are kept in north amerikkkan concentration camps of innercities, trailor parks, shot gun shacks, barrios and reservations while FED (govt) crap for news and daily events and their cultures and economic state are criminalized as they are kept in a state of, as bruh chuck d states; "thinking like an animal" or criminal = behavioral modification -- or nas' "black zombie"; "Yo, you believe when they say we ain't shit, we can't grow? All we are is dope dealers, and gangstas and hoes? And you believe when they be tellin you lie, all on the media? They make the world look crazy to keep you inside? ...You scared to be yourself, cause you in a trance/Feel free, hear the music and dance/If you cared what they think, why wear what they wear, just for you Dumb niggaz with long beards like they Arabs or Jews or from Israel, bis'ma Allah, Al-Rahman, Al-Rahim Islam's a beautiful thing And Christian and Rastafari, helps us to bring peace against the darkness, which is unGodly..." ...and these, the poor, the working class, the masses are the balance in the equations to topple the world domination of north amerikkkan and e.u. slave masters. ...so it is important to "passify" them and control them and to distract them... what a better way than to have people who look and chat them up just like the way they do afrosuburban posers of burkdome while the world targets the enemy - the so called "afrikan" of north amerikkka targets each other and hollas about "revolution" to the most ut pop charts (while using garvey and other members of the dead negro society) as a propaganda tool, for the establishement = to cast suspicion, humiliate, control world knowledge, "universality", discredit and then pimp anti-intellectualism = fascism as black consciousness ... when it is actaully another attempt by the few at the top and the climbers to CON and troll through the masses. the tactricks have become more sophisticated and there is not an organization ... except for perhaps the n.o.i and those who remain unlimited = stay clear of affiliations-- which has not been completely controlled from the top. however, the greatest radical move would be to break out of the ghetto, barrio and reservation mentality, identity politricks, drop the played out sun tzu and go defend or feed afrika and not chat about it; to not wear bad played out dashiki vines or use it as rank... just get on the dissidents tip of nonsuburban direct action = resistance... cuz ain't nobody gives a mofo that your name means 'sun runner ancestor hugger' in fake swahili. hell yell ¡YA! even the black panthers thought these dudes were posers and passive agressive back inn DAH daze = 'pour me a libation', yo. peep the "panthers" script by melvin van peebles street rebellology (unlimited)? personally, if you gonna have a sight, in these times, which big ups cuba, assata shakur (http://www.assatashakur.org/) and claims "afrikan" and "revolution" -- i'm sorry to say my friends, no dis to the sis, that it is going to be run and infultrated to the max by the powers who should not be and attempt to numb all action and rebels, rebellion and keep it at a yawn. basically, our revolution is like an mc battle or dmc -- alot hollerin, tricks and play b.u.t. ain't nobody sayin nothin and we target each other as threats to success in master's house. the neoafrikan dissassembled it is best to keep clear of the afrougoisie. the revolution shall not be wy fi'ed. sshhhhhh keep it to yourself 1425 Lawrence Y Braithwaite (aka Lord Patch) New Palestine/Fernwood/The Hood Victoria, BC http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ No Surrender No Retreat!!! "Intersections in Real Time" ? http://www.assatashakur.org/ http://www.assatashakur.org/forums/upload/showthread.php?t=3436 CEE: Boom Bees swattin Like Dawson Mass collapsing My bruthas Swoon to the Jazzy era Suicide or murder Wisdome or bounty killaz I kill the Visions of rockets Over Riyad (ha) whereas: http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/08/28684.php http://iskra.ws/ Firebomb Closes Vancouver Courthouse http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2005/02/37624.php Who is Lynne Stewart http://www.lynnestewart.org/ "How do you say "Anger" for example is "Moral" or "Immoral?" There are things to be angry about and things not to be angry about. Similarly, adab, or manners is delegated to the sort of Southern Belle mannerisms: "Put your fork here when you sit at the table and your napkin here; say 'excuse me' after you belch, and always hold the door for ladies." This is not what adab is dealing with. For just as in such Southern societies, etiquette is considered a virtue, but backbiting and gossip are traditional mainstays. The same Southern families which would hold "etiquette" in such high regard would also ruthlessly beat slaves working in their plantations. The same who would consider etiquette so essential would treat `asabiyyah, racism, nationalism, and tribalism as though it were normal and acceptable." -- Abu Jamaal -- "Forgiving Those Who Tresspass..." http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2005/02/37657.php "The U.S. and Western imperialists have finally concluded that Muslim countries and nations...form the core of this awakening and resistance to their plans for global domination. They foresee that if they fail to control or suppress this Islamic awakening...with political and economic measures, through propaganda, and...through military aggression, all their plans for an absolute global hegemony and control ... over the rest of humanity will come to nothing. If that happens, the big Western and Zionist capitalists, who are the real backstage actors of all imperialist governments will fall.." ayatollah khamenei(ha) -- "The Core of Awakening and Resistance" http://www.islamicdigest.net/v61/content/view/1665/1/ "As the month of Muharram, the month of revolution, the month of resistance to the aggressors and resistance to injustice,...We can see from the actions of the Amerikkkan Empire today that it is hell bent on acting out it's plans for global hegemony,..., to usurp such resources from the poor and destitute and re-apportion them to the fatcats that helped to create and sustain the Empire. To spread the corruption and vice that infects it's own society and that it's own people speak out against.... from those inside Occupied Amerikkka, to those in Occupied Iraq, Occupied Palestine, etc." from "Muharram the month of revolution": http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2005/02/37826.php http://www.islamicdigest.net/v61/content/view/1671/1/ http://www.amirsulaiman.com/ http://www.najone.com/ ___ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 22:49:08 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: The Letter In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > The Letter > > Alan - impulsively I say you were right to do what you did. Even if you could accurately inscribe intention around your discovery of the letter (the sender wanted somebody to see it before a threat could be fulfilled, or the receiver wanted to lose it as some form of banishment, etc., etc.) - I think the use of the for an art project would be like taking a person's picture without asking for permission to do so. Asking for permission often puts something much more interesting into motion, such as a fuller sense of disclosure by both artist and subject, and the realized 'art object' can be much the richer from this process. At least that has been my experience. (And I suspect yours.) Thieving the subject I never find similarly rewarding. A little cheap, I feel after. Sending the letter back anonymously, undoubtedly will set something in motion. The only regret is that you will never know what! Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > Yesterday, Azure and I found a letter in a second-hand book on ecology. > The letter was from a prisoner in a New York State correctional facility. > It was addressed to a woman in Queens, New York. > > The letter used the word "nigga" extensively, and threatened to kill the > married "nigga" who was fucking his woman, whom he loved. It was four > pages in length, and veered wildly from death threats to protestations of > love. It was awkwardly written, and the prisoner apologizes for the poor > quality of the paper, almost school notebook paper, the kind with the thin > blue lines. > > My impulse was to 'make a work' from the letter, which had been discarded > in the book, to use the text in one or another fashion. But the text > seemed too powerful, too angry, too sad, to do anything with it. I talked > it over with Azure and our friends. At one point, I was going to throw it > out; at another, file it away as a reminder of the vastly different worlds > present in slaughter-america under the bush regime. I finally decided the > best was to remail the letter in the original envelope to the original > recipient. Perhaps she had lost it, perhaps it had frightened her so much > that she subconsciously left it behind when she turned the book in for > textbook credit. Our friends gave us two stamps and tape, and with the > envelope resealed, I sent it on its way though a local mailbox. > > On the envelope I wrote, 'found this in a book and thought you may want > it.' I didn't sign it, the separation was permanent. > > I had an odd sense of loss, which haunts me. I have used found materials > if they 'resonate' before - for example, webcam images that are then > transformed, arranged, semantically 'intensified.' But this letter was too > strong - or if not strong - violent - or if not violent - symptomatic - it > was too dis/comforting, as if real life permanently intruded on what, in > my work, in all work, can be at best metaphoric conceits, no matter how we > think otherwise. > > The letter was uncanny. It demanded, it appeared to demand, to be read, > absorbed, to fit in, as if returning were a coward's way out - for there > was no indication that she would have done anything but discarded it, > perhaps after class. The envelope was thick, immediately evident within > the pages of the ecology text, surely she would have put it away, > somewhere, anywhere, if she had wanted to save it. And the undeniable > violence of it all mitigated against this, I could only imagine that she > had moved on, that she wanted as much distance as possible from the > writer, that the letter was a reminder of an uncomfortable past, one which > could never be absorbed, could never fit in with her current lifestyle. > The letter was close to illiterate, she was in college, and the text was > somewhat advanced, with a cdrom illustrating ecological processes, and > quite clearly often played. > > There is a weakness and pretense in all writing, in all art, as if 'my > love is like a red, red, rose' said anything at all that rearranged the > molecular epistemology of things on the planet. Art murmurs presumably to > the soul, it calls us to action, makes us feel better about the world, or > gives us an expressivity for the violent tendencies of the times. Or it > allows us to push the boundaries of comfort, dis/comfort, in new ways, for > dis/comfort speaks in art of a 'newness' that is non-existent. It takes > one letter in a book on ecology to contradict each and every other form of > cultural construction, a letter from a sender who had no idea whatsoever > that it would form the punctum of an essay, nor, I suspect, would he care. > He would care about his woman who was no longer his woman, his love who > had betrayed him, and he would kill the perpetrator of that betrayal who > surely was not her. > > This short essay can't go anywhere, it can only point to a found object, a > letter, which could not be subsumed. And within that lack, on my part, is > an incredible selfishness, that the debris of the world is there, in the > first place, to be used. To be primordially used. To be used by a writer > or an artist. To be absorbed, to be robbed of originary content. And while > that may be the premise and promise of art, it remains a hole in this > page. Debris is never debris, or it is someone's, or it is no one's, but > it is never debris, just like there are never vermin or weeds, words which > I detest for their inherent elitism. Debris is nothing but the world, and > it is the world which rends and renders artwork useless, meaningless, at > best with meaning grafted by the reader who has no choice. > > > _ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 23:35:12 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: The Letter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alan, I taught at Soledad Correctional Facility in Gonzales, CA in 1966; funny = thing about that letter of yours, it reminded me of my days as an = instructor in aircraft electronics in the U.S.A.F. Back in that = classroom, all the folks (males only back then) wore their fatigues and = came to class clean shaven and almost sparkling. They were attentive, = obedient, and bright. At the prison, I taught HS English to folks attempting to complete their = HS education; in class one afternoon, I remember the moment well, I = stood before the class about to attempt to lead a discussion on the = poetry of W. Whitman, and I looked out over the room and saw all the men = in their prison fatigues, clean shaven, (males only), obedient, bright = and sparkling with a kind of intellectual interest. And I remember = feeling that de ja vu horror...for a moment I really didn't know where I = was. =20 But there's more to the tale than that. I spent a year on that faculty. I found chaps I had no trouble = identifying with...worse, I found no one who was guilty! There were rapists, robbers, con men and a whole host of violent men = angry at the society, all of whom were innocent. I never met a guilty = convict. And after spending time reviewing their files and chatting = with them, I came to realize, there really were no guilty men. There = were only men who lacked the money to prove their innocence or to = confuse the facts. =20 All of that useless information though evades the questions: is the = loyalty and love among the criminal element as fervent, as the love of = the upper class? And more, does the racism language increase the fervor = of the relationship? And even worse, is there a motive on the part of = the writer of any letter that drives action from one who reads the = letter? And is that motive honorable?=20 Interesting questions those...sorry I have no answers. =20 But I do have this...one of my students, a particularly bright chap = (I'll call him Robert here) who had a flair for writing, one day asked = me if I would mind taking a letter to his sister. Now, mind you, I had = already been warned by the warden and the captain of security that cons = would ask me to do things for them, for favors, so I was prepared to say = "No" to such a request. =20 And I did say "No." But not without chatting first with Robert. =20 At the conclusion of my talks, I heard this: "Mr. Saliby, I was a robber = before I got in here; I'm a robber now, and I'll be a robber whenever I = leave this place." Those were Roberts words.=20 I read Robert's jacket; I read his court case files and I learned, he = didn't lie to me; he was a robber. I'm certain, where ever he is = today...he's still a robber. =20 His letter to his sister, which I did not deliver, was more a confession = of Robert's sins than a plea for forgiveness. I felt when I read the = note that I should have delivered it because it placed the man in the = light of honesty he saw himself. And while I did follow the rules of = the institution, I've often felt guilty for not having disobeyed those = rules and taken that note to the man's sister....who knows how that = might have altered his life or hers. Sorry for the lengthy diatribe here...it's just your note struck a cord = of familiarity with me. Alex=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alan Sondheim=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 9:49 PM Subject: The Letter The Letter Yesterday, Azure and I found a letter in a second-hand book on = ecology. The letter was from a prisoner in a New York State correctional = facility. It was addressed to a woman in Queens, New York. The letter used the word "nigga" extensively, and threatened to kill = the married "nigga" who was fucking his woman, whom he loved. It was four pages in length, and veered wildly from death threats to protestations = of love. It was awkwardly written, and the prisoner apologizes for the = poor quality of the paper, almost school notebook paper, the kind with the = thin blue lines. My impulse was to 'make a work' from the letter, which had been = discarded in the book, to use the text in one or another fashion. But the text seemed too powerful, too angry, too sad, to do anything with it. I = talked it over with Azure and our friends. At one point, I was going to throw = it out; at another, file it away as a reminder of the vastly different = worlds present in slaughter-america under the bush regime. I finally decided = the best was to remail the letter in the original envelope to the original recipient. Perhaps she had lost it, perhaps it had frightened her so = much that she subconsciously left it behind when she turned the book in for textbook credit. Our friends gave us two stamps and tape, and with the envelope resealed, I sent it on its way though a local mailbox. On the envelope I wrote, 'found this in a book and thought you may = want it.' I didn't sign it, the separation was permanent. I had an odd sense of loss, which haunts me. I have used found = materials if they 'resonate' before - for example, webcam images that are then transformed, arranged, semantically 'intensified.' But this letter was = too strong - or if not strong - violent - or if not violent - symptomatic = - it was too dis/comforting, as if real life permanently intruded on what, = in my work, in all work, can be at best metaphoric conceits, no matter = how we think otherwise. The letter was uncanny. It demanded, it appeared to demand, to be = read, absorbed, to fit in, as if returning were a coward's way out - for = there was no indication that she would have done anything but discarded it, perhaps after class. The envelope was thick, immediately evident = within the pages of the ecology text, surely she would have put it away, somewhere, anywhere, if she had wanted to save it. And the undeniable violence of it all mitigated against this, I could only imagine that = she had moved on, that she wanted as much distance as possible from the writer, that the letter was a reminder of an uncomfortable past, one = which could never be absorbed, could never fit in with her current = lifestyle. The letter was close to illiterate, she was in college, and the text = was somewhat advanced, with a cdrom illustrating ecological processes, and quite clearly often played. There is a weakness and pretense in all writing, in all art, as if 'my love is like a red, red, rose' said anything at all that rearranged = the molecular epistemology of things on the planet. Art murmurs presumably = to the soul, it calls us to action, makes us feel better about the world, = or gives us an expressivity for the violent tendencies of the times. Or = it allows us to push the boundaries of comfort, dis/comfort, in new ways, = for dis/comfort speaks in art of a 'newness' that is non-existent. It = takes one letter in a book on ecology to contradict each and every other = form of cultural construction, a letter from a sender who had no idea = whatsoever that it would form the punctum of an essay, nor, I suspect, would he = care. He would care about his woman who was no longer his woman, his love = who had betrayed him, and he would kill the perpetrator of that betrayal = who surely was not her. This short essay can't go anywhere, it can only point to a found = object, a letter, which could not be subsumed. And within that lack, on my part, = is an incredible selfishness, that the debris of the world is there, in = the first place, to be used. To be primordially used. To be used by a = writer or an artist. To be absorbed, to be robbed of originary content. And = while that may be the premise and promise of art, it remains a hole in this page. Debris is never debris, or it is someone's, or it is no one's, = but it is never debris, just like there are never vermin or weeds, words = which I detest for their inherent elitism. Debris is nothing but the world, = and it is the world which rends and renders artwork useless, meaningless, = at best with meaning grafted by the reader who has no choice. _ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 03:30:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: graves, graves, graves, graves . . . MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sorry really haven't been following any of this but what's a booojum? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 20:20:25 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: graves, graves, graves, graves . . . In-Reply-To: <20050213.033637.-72003.6.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 13/2/05 7:30 PM, "Steve Dalachinksy" wrote: > sorry really haven't been following any of this but what's a booojum? It's what happens when a snark doesn't. Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 04:28:13 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit H lmno P new lite c to c.... 4:00...at this late date...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 10:57:03 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: The Letter In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A strong answer (Alexander) to a strong mail (Alan). To Alexander, I don't know if someone who was born a robber will always be a robber. There is transformation, and by glimpsing at the titles of the other threads (Graves-Graves etc.) it is symbolized in the philosopher's stone. For those who did not understand it yet, and according to this tale, we are the base metals and can change ourselves into gold. There is no transmuted gold out there to fulfil our desires. The less by manipulating and confusing, not meant to you, but to some other out there. Care, Anny Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome The aim of the poet is to awaken emotions in the soul, not to gather admirers. Stalker, Andrei Tarkovsky On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 23:35:12 -0800, alexander saliby wrote: > Alan, > I taught at Soledad Correctional Facility in Gonzales, CA in 1966; funny thing about that letter of yours, it reminded me of my days as an instructor in aircraft electronics in the U.S.A.F. Back in that classroom, all the folks (males only back then) wore their fatigues and came to class clean shaven and almost sparkling. They were attentive, obedient, and bright. > > At the prison, I taught HS English to folks attempting to complete their HS education; in class one afternoon, I remember the moment well, I stood before the class about to attempt to lead a discussion on the poetry of W. Whitman, and I looked out over the room and saw all the men in their prison fatigues, clean shaven, (males only), obedient, bright and sparkling with a kind of intellectual interest. And I remember feeling that de ja vu horror...for a moment I really didn't know where I was. > > But there's more to the tale than that. > > I spent a year on that faculty. I found chaps I had no trouble identifying with...worse, I found no one who was guilty! > > There were rapists, robbers, con men and a whole host of violent men angry at the society, all of whom were innocent. I never met a guilty convict. And after spending time reviewing their files and chatting with them, I came to realize, there really were no guilty men. There were only men who lacked the money to prove their innocence or to confuse the facts. > > All of that useless information though evades the questions: is the loyalty and love among the criminal element as fervent, as the love of the upper class? And more, does the racism language increase the fervor of the relationship? And even worse, is there a motive on the part of the writer of any letter that drives action from one who reads the letter? And is that motive honorable? > > Interesting questions those...sorry I have no answers. > > But I do have this...one of my students, a particularly bright chap (I'll call him Robert here) who had a flair for writing, one day asked me if I would mind taking a letter to his sister. Now, mind you, I had already been warned by the warden and the captain of security that cons would ask me to do things for them, for favors, so I was prepared to say "No" to such a request. > > And I did say "No." But not without chatting first with Robert. > > At the conclusion of my talks, I heard this: "Mr. Saliby, I was a robber before I got in here; I'm a robber now, and I'll be a robber whenever I leave this place." Those were Roberts words. > > I read Robert's jacket; I read his court case files and I learned, he didn't lie to me; he was a robber. I'm certain, where ever he is today...he's still a robber. > > His letter to his sister, which I did not deliver, was more a confession of Robert's sins than a plea for forgiveness. I felt when I read the note that I should have delivered it because it placed the man in the light of honesty he saw himself. And while I did follow the rules of the institution, I've often felt guilty for not having disobeyed those rules and taken that note to the man's sister....who knows how that might have altered his life or hers. > > Sorry for the lengthy diatribe here...it's just your note struck a cord of familiarity with me. > Alex > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Alan Sondheim > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 9:49 PM > Subject: The Letter > > The Letter > > Yesterday, Azure and I found a letter in a second-hand book on ecology. > The letter was from a prisoner in a New York State correctional facility. > It was addressed to a woman in Queens, New York. > > The letter used the word "nigga" extensively, and threatened to kill the > married "nigga" who was fucking his woman, whom he loved. It was four > pages in length, and veered wildly from death threats to protestations of > love. It was awkwardly written, and the prisoner apologizes for the poor > quality of the paper, almost school notebook paper, the kind with the thin > blue lines. > > My impulse was to 'make a work' from the letter, which had been discarded > in the book, to use the text in one or another fashion. But the text > seemed too powerful, too angry, too sad, to do anything with it. I talked > it over with Azure and our friends. At one point, I was going to throw it > out; at another, file it away as a reminder of the vastly different worlds > present in slaughter-america under the bush regime. I finally decided the > best was to remail the letter in the original envelope to the original > recipient. Perhaps she had lost it, perhaps it had frightened her so much > that she subconsciously left it behind when she turned the book in for > textbook credit. Our friends gave us two stamps and tape, and with the > envelope resealed, I sent it on its way though a local mailbox. > > On the envelope I wrote, 'found this in a book and thought you may want > it.' I didn't sign it, the separation was permanent. > > I had an odd sense of loss, which haunts me. I have used found materials > if they 'resonate' before - for example, webcam images that are then > transformed, arranged, semantically 'intensified.' But this letter was too > strong - or if not strong - violent - or if not violent - symptomatic - it > was too dis/comforting, as if real life permanently intruded on what, in > my work, in all work, can be at best metaphoric conceits, no matter how we > think otherwise. > > The letter was uncanny. It demanded, it appeared to demand, to be read, > absorbed, to fit in, as if returning were a coward's way out - for there > was no indication that she would have done anything but discarded it, > perhaps after class. The envelope was thick, immediately evident within > the pages of the ecology text, surely she would have put it away, > somewhere, anywhere, if she had wanted to save it. And the undeniable > violence of it all mitigated against this, I could only imagine that she > had moved on, that she wanted as much distance as possible from the > writer, that the letter was a reminder of an uncomfortable past, one which > could never be absorbed, could never fit in with her current lifestyle. > The letter was close to illiterate, she was in college, and the text was > somewhat advanced, with a cdrom illustrating ecological processes, and > quite clearly often played. > > There is a weakness and pretense in all writing, in all art, as if 'my > love is like a red, red, rose' said anything at all that rearranged the > molecular epistemology of things on the planet. Art murmurs presumably to > the soul, it calls us to action, makes us feel better about the world, or > gives us an expressivity for the violent tendencies of the times. Or it > allows us to push the boundaries of comfort, dis/comfort, in new ways, for > dis/comfort speaks in art of a 'newness' that is non-existent. It takes > one letter in a book on ecology to contradict each and every other form of > cultural construction, a letter from a sender who had no idea whatsoever > that it would form the punctum of an essay, nor, I suspect, would he care. > He would care about his woman who was no longer his woman, his love who > had betrayed him, and he would kill the perpetrator of that betrayal who > surely was not her. > > This short essay can't go anywhere, it can only point to a found object, a > letter, which could not be subsumed. And within that lack, on my part, is > an incredible selfishness, that the debris of the world is there, in the > first place, to be used. To be primordially used. To be used by a writer > or an artist. To be absorbed, to be robbed of originary content. And while > that may be the premise and promise of art, it remains a hole in this > page. Debris is never debris, or it is someone's, or it is no one's, but > it is never debris, just like there are never vermin or weeds, words which > I detest for their inherent elitism. Debris is nothing but the world, and > it is the world which rends and renders artwork useless, meaningless, at > best with meaning grafted by the reader who has no choice. > > _ > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 12:09:46 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: graves, graves, graves, graves . . . MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Steve Dalachinksy To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: 13 February 2005 08:33 Subject: Re: graves, graves, graves, graves . . . >sorry really haven't been following any of this but what's a booojum? > I recommend a reading of the hunting of the snark; it's very good in parts if the reference isn't recognised then i was wasting my time inadvertently I'll come at it another way I too came to this late with a claim that graves was not only a major poet but more importantly a genius. Now I am not too worried about the first half. I don't actually like terms like major poet; but I have sufficient regard for his writing not to want to find myself debating a quality that both accept. That kind of categorising, eg x was a major poet, is not easily dealt with - we do evaluate, we do compare: the problem is we don't agree. So the best thing to be done is to try to identify what the individual making the claim means, what their terms of reference are etc I wouldnt have bothered except that claims were being made for Graves' theories; which to me are... incorrect I thought I could best counter *this false claim by asking what is meant by "genius". So I asked: "What is a genius? How does one recognise it? Why is it so important that someone is one?" and I got back "Genius is that rare creative ability to synthesis ideas and provide insight and meaning where old structures of understanding are failing. Genii are like muses that inspired them." which answers the first and not the second or third. I don't think the second and third questions were unreasonable. The second follows from the claim of genius, surely; and third from the claim that the claim of genius is more important than the claim of major poet. Both claims were made. No explanation being forthcoming, I conclude that there is no consensual means of identifying genius (borne out by the heterogeneity of the list of those for whom I have heard the claim made over the years); and that there is no particular reason why it should be important. This seriously weakens the claim But that leaves us with this: "Genius is that rare creative ability to synthesis ideas and provide insight and meaning where old structures of understanding are failing. Genii are like muses that inspired them." Taking the second sentence first... Is this a report of what some claimed to have believed or an actual claim of fact? If the former it's redundant because I want to know how the word is being used in this thread, if the latter then it assumes the veracity of the existence of muses and of inspiration; and that surely requires some justification. I remain to be persuaded. Which leaves us with: "Genius is that rare creative ability to synthesis ideas and provide insight and meaning where old structures of understanding are failing." Well, if I had been offered that as a definition of a major poet, I think I would be happier. Yet I have been led to believe that there is a marked difference, making the genius more important. Clearly, it would have helped had we been told how to recognise a genius; but that request was declined by silence - as a kind of footnote to a reply to someone else. One suspects that the rareness of this unrecognisable phenomenon will be clerar when the rest is clear. Creative is a word used for everything from needlecraft-by-numbers onwards. So, for the moment, I'll come back to rareness and creativity. It is an ability we are talking about. That is at least one clear statement. I had feared that it might be a quality, like kingship, which all with eyes can see, with Graves going round in some kind of Tolkien world giving out his theory saying "This will cure you" If it's an ability, we shall see it in action - an ability "to synthesis ideas and provide insight and meaning where old structures of understanding are failing." What? Is he doing a doctorate then? A bit of the definition is missing if so. What ideas? Any ideas? Insight into what? Etc Genius is an ability. Well, I'm glad I waited for that. Creativity is a slippery word. It is used a lot by people who are anything but creative. I read a book not long ago which suggests creativity is subject to market forces; so that when a body of work is no longer considered creative, it isn't; and when it is, it is. But the book doesn't say what it - creativity - is, except in those terms Anyone want a go with my bootlaces? Guaranteed to prove you knowledgeable. No evidence required. Rare - a rare creative ability -??? Don't see what that adds except to be sure there won't be comparisons available Delete boojum Insert waffle L ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 07:18:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: graves, graves, graves, graves . . . In-Reply-To: <20050213.033637.-72003.6.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed boojum tree - definition from gcide cirio \cirio\ n. the candlewood of Mexico and couthwestern California Idria columnaris or Fouquieria columnaris), having tall columnar stems and bearing honey-scented creamy yellow flowers; -- called also the boojum tree. some images at http://helios.bto.ed.ac.uk/bto/desertecology/boojum.htm Boojum at U of Arizona: http://arboretum.arizona.edu/boojum.html from the Desert Ecology web site: The boojum tree is one of the strangest plants imaginable. For most of the year it is leafless and looks like a giant upturned turnip. Its common name was coined by the plant explorer Godfrey Sykes, who found it in 1922 and said "It must be a boojum!". In saying this, he was referring of the strange and mythical creature that the author Lewis Carroll called a boojum in his children's book, The Hunting of the Snark. The Spanish common name for this tree is Cirio, referring to its candle-like appearance. The plant itself is restricted to a relatively small region of the Baja California peninsula of Mexico (but with a small population also on the extreme western side of state of Sonora on the Mexican mainland). However, within this restricted region it is very common and sometimes forms forests that dominate the landscape on rocky hillsides or flat plains. In other cases the boojum grows in mixed communities with two other characteristic large stem succulents of the Baja California Desert - the giant cardon cactus and the elephant tree (Pachycormus). Individual boojum trees can live for up to 100 years, and possibly up to 300 years, reaching a height of 18 metres. But the wood of their trunks is not very strong, so the plants are susceptible to damage by periodic hurricanes, which probably limit their natural age. The trunks of boojums often branch near the tops, and sometimes contort into strange shapes, even bending to touch the ground. The trunks contain succulent tissues that store moisture, so they are of the general type termed stem succulents. They have greyish-white bark and for most of the year are dormant, protected from water loss by a thick epidermal layer. Thin, pencil-like branches arise along the length of the stem and rapidly produce thin, rounded leaves in response to rain. These leaves soon wither and are shed in drought conditions. Boojums produce clusters of creamy white flowers at the tips of the trunks in July-August. These flowers resemble the flowers of ocotillo and of Adam's tree - both of which are very closely related plants in the ocotillo family (Fouquieriaceae). At 01:30 AM 2/13/2005, you wrote: >sorry really haven't been following any of this but what's a booojum? charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 03:40:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: The Letter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Alaexander I love it when people talk about what they have done - or are doing -you have taught Aircraft elctronics and also taught English in a prison - great! I studied electronics - telecommunications and electronics and my last "real " job was as an Engineering Tech in telecommuications of all kinds (for the then Government Power provider who have their own communications network) and electronics of all kinds -eg PCM - Microwave - intercoms - radio,telephone exchanges, of various kinds, modems, power supplies 9compuert controle, digital electronics of course in everything, on radio and micrwave masts (setting up transceivers - aerials), instrumentation, telephones, microwave, batteries, cabling, amplifiers,dBm (power) level metering and etc PLCs etc etc and i then studied English ! And I've forgotten most of it! I visited prison once here as part of a progamme to visit prisoners - it was chillng and an insight - prison is a place one doesnt want to go to - but my son was in remand for a time: it made me think (Alans letter) of The Shawshank Redemption -everyone was "innocent' - they wern't but I read upon death row and a hell of a lot of them are - as you say they just cant afford lawyers etc and then there is the people in Guantanamo a lot have just been picked up and sold to the US ( they are not even terrorists): and I can believe - that in a sense a lot of people are basically innocent - there are some bad eggs of course - but many just drift and blunder into crime - Alan shared another side of life with us (when I was in hospital last year I shared a ward with a Maori guy who had spent 14 years in jail for varous things and he said "I also raped a woman, but then all women get raped (!)" (His words) ..actually he had crushed his foot - interesting guy as it hapenned - in a gang (he had been) - ... Alan's letter is fascinating - I mean the whole story of it... I've known the jealousy - evem planned to kill men (or i deluded myslef I woudl kill - more likely )- it was 1989 - and I was pretty messed up - I might have gone that way - my ex had left me and i was very angry - and i knew where a local gang met and could have bought a gun (very unlikely I would ever do it -motdly it was bluster (I've ber owned a gun - onlyfired one once I think - and basically cant fight my way out of paper bag and am more or less a card carrying coward! I wil runa away rarther than get a fist planted on my lovely old teeth!!) but at times i started to imagine I was actually mad (and or some kind of "tough guy") (I'm not - if the phone goes i often jump in fright!! - as it only goes once every 6 months or sometimes once in 5 years! -lol) I'm sacred shitless of spiders! (but I was building this mytholgy of myself)- the next step may have been madness, destruction of others and self - jail for life whatever - descent into hell......but mostly its was just talk and I even think my ex and her friends got a frisson from it -but things happened and gradually I came to my senses - evry unlikely anything would anve ovmc of it - i never ever hit a woman - in fact cant recall hitting anyone (except as a child maybe I hit "Teddy" or Dennis my brother!) - - but some guys dont esitate - they dont think conclusions through as I did -or they arent true cowards as I am ! - it is possible you know - in some cases women get a buzz out of all that stuff -tormenting the guy in prison with the lover -or maybe she didnt - one never knows - she may have invented the lover - (the permutations advance) some would maybe have made a complete break...a mystery - the human heart - but sexual jealousy is the cause of many homicides and has and will be for many (centuries -millenia) -probably for ever but in a sense the great or awesome thing about the letter is its complete mystery - and in some ways that's sad -or the poignant aspect of it - strange it is - for some reason I think again of the film The Dead (the last story in The Dubliners by Joyce) - and the man whose wife once -long ago - was loved by am young man who sacrificed his life for her and this man cant get to her - he is walled out from her self - her soul - her eart -even though he is her husband - has children by her - - he has never felt that passion - or that depth of passion...he will never love her - never be ready to die for her Richard Taylor Auckland - New Zealand richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet ("Well..." ) / Chess Addict (partly recovered) /Was 15 stone - working on it -/ Grandfather/ BA /NZCE/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: --------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."---------------------- ASPECT BOOKS www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "alexander saliby" To: Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 11:35 PM Subject: Re: The Letter Alan, I taught at Soledad Correctional Facility in Gonzales, CA in 1966; funny thing about that letter of yours, it reminded me of my days as an instructor in aircraft electronics in the U.S.A.F. Back in that classroom, all the folks (males only back then) wore their fatigues and came to class clean shaven and almost sparkling. They were attentive, obedient, and bright. At the prison, I taught HS English to folks attempting to complete their HS education; in class one afternoon, I remember the moment well, I stood before the class about to attempt to lead a discussion on the poetry of W. Whitman, and I looked out over the room and saw all the men in their prison fatigues, clean shaven, (males only), obedient, bright and sparkling with a kind of intellectual interest. And I remember feeling that de ja vu horror...for a moment I really didn't know where I was. But there's more to the tale than that. I spent a year on that faculty. I found chaps I had no trouble identifying with...worse, I found no one who was guilty! There were rapists, robbers, con men and a whole host of violent men angry at the society, all of whom were innocent. I never met a guilty convict. And after spending time reviewing their files and chatting with them, I came to realize, there really were no guilty men. There were only men who lacked the money to prove their innocence or to confuse the facts. All of that useless information though evades the questions: is the loyalty and love among the criminal element as fervent, as the love of the upper class? And more, does the racism language increase the fervor of the relationship? And even worse, is there a motive on the part of the writer of any letter that drives action from one who reads the letter? And is that motive honorable? Interesting questions those...sorry I have no answers. But I do have this...one of my students, a particularly bright chap (I'll call him Robert here) who had a flair for writing, one day asked me if I would mind taking a letter to his sister. Now, mind you, I had already been warned by the warden and the captain of security that cons would ask me to do things for them, for favors, so I was prepared to say "No" to such a request. And I did say "No." But not without chatting first with Robert. At the conclusion of my talks, I heard this: "Mr. Saliby, I was a robber before I got in here; I'm a robber now, and I'll be a robber whenever I leave this place." Those were Roberts words. I read Robert's jacket; I read his court case files and I learned, he didn't lie to me; he was a robber. I'm certain, where ever he is today...he's still a robber. His letter to his sister, which I did not deliver, was more a confession of Robert's sins than a plea for forgiveness. I felt when I read the note that I should have delivered it because it placed the man in the light of honesty he saw himself. And while I did follow the rules of the institution, I've often felt guilty for not having disobeyed those rules and taken that note to the man's sister....who knows how that might have altered his life or hers. Sorry for the lengthy diatribe here...it's just your note struck a cord of familiarity with me. Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Sondheim To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 9:49 PM Subject: The Letter The Letter Yesterday, Azure and I found a letter in a second-hand book on ecology. The letter was from a prisoner in a New York State correctional facility. It was addressed to a woman in Queens, New York. The letter used the word "nigga" extensively, and threatened to kill the married "nigga" who was fucking his woman, whom he loved. It was four pages in length, and veered wildly from death threats to protestations of love. It was awkwardly written, and the prisoner apologizes for the poor quality of the paper, almost school notebook paper, the kind with the thin blue lines. My impulse was to 'make a work' from the letter, which had been discarded in the book, to use the text in one or another fashion. But the text seemed too powerful, too angry, too sad, to do anything with it. I talked it over with Azure and our friends. At one point, I was going to throw it out; at another, file it away as a reminder of the vastly different worlds present in slaughter-america under the bush regime. I finally decided the best was to remail the letter in the original envelope to the original recipient. Perhaps she had lost it, perhaps it had frightened her so much that she subconsciously left it behind when she turned the book in for textbook credit. Our friends gave us two stamps and tape, and with the envelope resealed, I sent it on its way though a local mailbox. On the envelope I wrote, 'found this in a book and thought you may want it.' I didn't sign it, the separation was permanent. I had an odd sense of loss, which haunts me. I have used found materials if they 'resonate' before - for example, webcam images that are then transformed, arranged, semantically 'intensified.' But this letter was too strong - or if not strong - violent - or if not violent - symptomatic - it was too dis/comforting, as if real life permanently intruded on what, in my work, in all work, can be at best metaphoric conceits, no matter how we think otherwise. The letter was uncanny. It demanded, it appeared to demand, to be read, absorbed, to fit in, as if returning were a coward's way out - for there was no indication that she would have done anything but discarded it, perhaps after class. The envelope was thick, immediately evident within the pages of the ecology text, surely she would have put it away, somewhere, anywhere, if she had wanted to save it. And the undeniable violence of it all mitigated against this, I could only imagine that she had moved on, that she wanted as much distance as possible from the writer, that the letter was a reminder of an uncomfortable past, one which could never be absorbed, could never fit in with her current lifestyle. The letter was close to illiterate, she was in college, and the text was somewhat advanced, with a cdrom illustrating ecological processes, and quite clearly often played. There is a weakness and pretense in all writing, in all art, as if 'my love is like a red, red, rose' said anything at all that rearranged the molecular epistemology of things on the planet. Art murmurs presumably to the soul, it calls us to action, makes us feel better about the world, or gives us an expressivity for the violent tendencies of the times. Or it allows us to push the boundaries of comfort, dis/comfort, in new ways, for dis/comfort speaks in art of a 'newness' that is non-existent. It takes one letter in a book on ecology to contradict each and every other form of cultural construction, a letter from a sender who had no idea whatsoever that it would form the punctum of an essay, nor, I suspect, would he care. He would care about his woman who was no longer his woman, his love who had betrayed him, and he would kill the perpetrator of that betrayal who surely was not her. This short essay can't go anywhere, it can only point to a found object, a letter, which could not be subsumed. And within that lack, on my part, is an incredible selfishness, that the debris of the world is there, in the first place, to be used. To be primordially used. To be used by a writer or an artist. To be absorbed, to be robbed of originary content. And while that may be the premise and promise of art, it remains a hole in this page. Debris is never debris, or it is someone's, or it is no one's, but it is never debris, just like there are never vermin or weeds, words which I detest for their inherent elitism. Debris is nothing but the world, and it is the world which rends and renders artwork useless, meaningless, at best with meaning grafted by the reader who has no choice. _ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 10:20:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: graves, graves, graves, graves . . . In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050213071448.02cb2c78@mail.theriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The pictures don't do them justice. A boojum forest is like riding through a landscape by Dr. Seuss. The Baja California boojum region is something like 200 miles long. Mark At 09:18 AM 2/13/2005, you wrote: >boojum tree - definition from gcide > cirio \cirio\ n. > the candlewood of Mexico and couthwestern California > >Idria columnaris > or >Fouquieria columnaris), having tall columnar stems and bearing >honey-scented creamy yellow flowers; -- > called also the boojum tree. > > >some images at http://helios.bto.ed.ac.uk/bto/desertecology/boojum.htm > >Boojum at U of Arizona: http://arboretum.arizona.edu/boojum.html > >from the Desert Ecology web site: > >The boojum tree is one of the strangest plants imaginable. For most of the >year it is leafless and looks like a giant upturned turnip. Its common name >was coined by the plant explorer Godfrey Sykes, who found it in 1922 and >said "It must be a boojum!". In saying this, he was referring of the >strange and mythical creature that the author Lewis Carroll called a boojum >in his children's book, The Hunting of the Snark. The Spanish common name >for this tree is Cirio, referring to its candle-like appearance. > >The plant itself is restricted to a relatively small region of the Baja >California peninsula of Mexico (but with a small population also on the >extreme western side of state of Sonora on the Mexican mainland). However, >within this restricted region it is very common and sometimes forms forests >that dominate the landscape on rocky hillsides or flat plains. In other >cases the boojum grows in mixed communities with two other characteristic >large stem succulents of the Baja California Desert - the giant cardon >cactus and the elephant tree (Pachycormus). > >Individual boojum trees can live for up to 100 years, and possibly up to >300 years, reaching a height of 18 metres. But the wood of their trunks is >not very strong, so the plants are susceptible to damage by periodic >hurricanes, which probably limit their natural age. The trunks of boojums >often branch near the tops, and sometimes contort into strange shapes, even >bending to touch the ground. The trunks contain succulent tissues that >store moisture, so they are of the general type termed stem succulents. >They have greyish-white bark and for most of the year are dormant, >protected from water loss by a thick epidermal layer. Thin, pencil-like >branches arise along the length of the stem and rapidly produce thin, >rounded leaves in response to rain. These leaves soon wither and are shed >in drought conditions. > >Boojums produce clusters of creamy white flowers at the tips of the trunks >in July-August. These flowers resemble the flowers of ocotillo and of >Adam's tree - both of which are very closely related plants in the ocotillo >family (Fouquieriaceae). > > > >At 01:30 AM 2/13/2005, you wrote: >>sorry really haven't been following any of this but what's a booojum? > >charles alexander / chax press > >fold the book inside the book keep it open always > read from the inside out speak then ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 11:54:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "St. Thomasino" Subject: ERATIO SMEARED Chapter Two Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed . 9 Are ready for this? . Look, I apologize for the attack. I'll be candid. I'm not interested in starting wars, or in doing anything that leads people to e-mail my=20 professors. [..... .......], who received an e-mail, was [.. ....... ] as and=20 undergradate, and e-mailing these sorts of people is out of line on your part. I didn't=20 like your site; I won't lie about that. The writing style I adapt is urged by my=20= editor. It was just satire. I get a hundred or so words to say something and I=20= try to be clever. I do this for fun on the side because I like to write. I=20 don't mean to hurt anyone. This just isn't worth it to me. I'm sorry if you felt personally attacked. Please don't e-mail my professors; it could ruin my career. I am no longer going to write for Web del Sol and I will=20 recommend that the editor remove the review from the site. Is that enough? Please do=20 not interfere with my personal life further. I'd appreciate if you didn't=20 post this on your site as proof that I've been defeated. --Tim McGrath . There's more. It's happening now. It's on the blog. The eratio blog-auxiliary: http://eratio.blogspot.com/ http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com . Fight the system! . 9 Dear Friends -- I am thankful to everyone who responded. I will gladly take a bullet for our poetry, and I will wear my scar proudly. So far as Snow White and her seven mental dwarfs go, what they cannot accept is this: More people are writing poetry (and other creative writings) today because of Language and post-avant than for any other reason. I think the influence is comparable to that of the Beats, and like that of the Beats, there are succeeding generations. If you really love creativity, how can this be bad? You gotta give credit where credit is due! Snow White and her dwarfs ought to channel their resentment into writing a better poem, one that appeals to the spirit of the times the way that Language and the post-avant and the postmodern have. You just gotta give credit where credit is due. . . . (And I do not believe that people who use the term "postmodern" are not postmodern -- say, in their poetry and in the way they think. I do, however, believe that it is a broad category. And where concerns poetry, it is more than a matter of form or style or technique, it is a sensibilities. Agree or disagree -- I have friends who do both -- it's really not that big a deal for me. The term does not offend or threaten or challenge me -- or my self-image -- in any way. And I think it is ridiculous to dismiss a person because of his vocabulary. Not all of us seek legitimacy by way of association -- I suppose it's a self-image thing, or maybe it's a career thing. I suppose it's a "value" thing.) I'll be reading you all wherever I find you. Gregory . . ERATIO SMEARED This "review" just up at Web Del Sol, by Tim McGrath: mcgrattf@bc.edu : "Eratio Postmodern Poetry =A0 ://=A0 View | Rating: Eratio offers up incomprehensible postmodern fodder for critics of postmodern incomprehensibility. Good luck finding anything intentionally; look for links and find a blog, look for poetry and find quotations. And when you realize that Eratio's editor, Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino (whose name suggests either a pseudonymously guarded narcissist or the tragi-comic hero of a Wes Anderson film) has included his own embarrassing asseverations ("Discourse is like a river" is his unqualified and deplorably facile, but apparently quotable, simile) along with the words of Nietszche, Plato, and Jung, you'll start wondering whether this postmodern experiment is, in fact, a postmodern parody. On the same page, alongside the luminous Lord Duke G.V. St. Thomasino, Diane Wakoski is quoted as saying, "I feel that poetry is the completely personal expression of someone about his feelings and reactions to the world. I think it is only interesting in proportion to how interesting the person who writes it is." By Wakoski's logic, the people who bring you Eratio are not very interesting at all." . Friends, as contributors to eratio postmodern poetry, you should proudly count yourselves among some of the most talented and influential writers and artists on the scene today. As editor of the site, I can honestly say that many of the works submitted for eratio simply do not make the cut (and I'm sorry if I've rejected your work, Mr. McGrath, but there's always the welcome to send again).=A0 I try to be fair when making these judgments, because I know what it means to put your heart into something (especially something like poetry), and how it feels to be rejected. Eratio is a labor of love, since it generates no revenue for me (but rather costs me time and energy and money). Each issue requires months of work, involving coding, design, correspondence, planning, and an immeasurable amount of frustration. Ultimately, it's very gratifying -- but I cannot say it's fun. Still, I am proud to publish your work and hope that its presence at eratio gives you some exposure and some degree of satisfaction that you otherwise would not have had, and gives you some encouragement to continue being a poet in an economy that doesn't much care about you. I do not know Tim McGrath. But if you read him closely you'll see that this is nothing more than a personal attack on me (based on his dislike of my name!). I am distressed because none of the poetry or artworks are mentioned, and in fact I do not believe Mr. McGrath even bothered to read or look at any of it. (But can he, indeed, talk about the poetry, or the content of the page, or the logic of the concept, I wonder? Why the subterfuge of fixating on my name? No one of any real insight or wit would do that -- unless he were inclined to burlesque.) As a poet and a critic, I take great care to explicate my reasons for "liking" or "disliking" something. More importantly, I consider it my responsibility to try to place a work into context, to appreciate what it is the poet is trying to achieve, and to assess whether this has been accomplished (and sometimes I offer alternatives, but I never ridicule and I am never disrespectful, and I always manage to point out a poet's successes). There are several reviews in the current issue that I took great care in writing, I hope you'll see them for yourself now that the issue is up. Reading Tim McGrath's personal attack (on my name, for Pete's sake!) is an example of something a poet or a critic should never do. Mr. McGrath has latched on to my name as something that irritates him a great deal, and in the process has ignored your work and mine. Why does Mr. McGrath dislike me personally? Could it be that this is payback? (Or else: What's "pseudonymously guarded" about it? What's "narcissist" about it? I will, however, accept that being a Roman Catholic name it is somewhat "tragi-comic.") Mr. McGrath's tone -- glib, cynical, condescending, and uninformed and lacking of the requisite vocabulary to comprehend let alone explicate or set a value upon "the postmodern" -- is indicative not only of Web Del Sol but of the "unlettered lad" generally. I do not know why Web Del Sol has adopted this attack mentality toward anything to do with "the postmodern," but for sure it is the creativity of resentment. . Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com http://eratio.blogspot.com/ . 9 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 09:38:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jon Corelis Subject: More on the topic in a different light Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Trying to think through the Brown quote (given in my posting under the su= bject "The topic in a different light") in case anyone's still interested: When Brown talks about "linguistic analysts [who] have had the project of= getting rid of the disease in language by reducing language to purely operational terms," I think he's referring to theories of language which insist that language has no meaning except what it's given by its context= =2E In this view, language is "purely" operational because it is atelic: it ope= rates without operating to any end; it works without working *for* anything; it= means without meaning anything in particular. Obviously this view is, or= at least is close to, the view of language which has subsequently become popularly known as structuralist or post-structuralist. A poetics based = on such a view -- what I called a Witttgensteinian poetics -- will see the r= ole of poetry as being to liberate language from the delusory quality that Wittgenstein attributed to it, in order to ... what? In order to do nothing. And this is the problem. The purpose of liberat= ing language should be to enable the poet to use it to reveal meanings which = can't be revealed if language remains bound to what we deludedly call reality, = if the words remain locked in their nominalist prison. It's dream-work. Ju= st as the psyche's dream-worker can only construct symbolic meaning by liberati= ng sensory images from their quotidian meaning, so the poet can only constru= ct meaning in a language which has been liberated from the delusion that it represents our experience. Or to put it another way, words must be liber= ated from their ordinary meanings before the poet is able to use them to const= ruct metaphors, and metaphor, as Aristotle said, is the essence of poetic geni= us. = There are indeed times when a cigar is only a cigar, but the dream time, whether of the psychic dream worker, the shaman, or the poet, = isn't one of them. The result of a poetics that stops with Wittgenstein instead of beginning= with him will be a poetry that offers nothing but a savor of the meaninglessne= ss of the universe: it will be a poetry that turns the world into a kalaidesco= pe which it invites us to delight in passively like a baby reclining under a= fascinating jangling and shining crib toy. And from a psychoanalytic standpoint the profoundly infantile nature of s= uch a poetry cannot of course be accidental. Reversion to infantile passivity = is the classic simple hysterical response to prolonged unbearable threat. Th= e constructors of such a poetry are acting as artists in spite of themselve= s, imitating the action of the human self in a world which has made it impos= sible to live a human life. The unconscious message of such poetry is, "Please= don't hurt me." =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org = www.geocities.com/joncpoetics =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ____________________________________________________________________ = ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 12:00:53 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Sawyer Subject: Re: Eshleman/milk magazine Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed new at milk magazine Vallejo's Charge, essay by Clayton ESHLEMAN http://www.milkmag.org/vol6home.html ______________ editor, Larry Sawyer fiction editor, web/Lina ramona Vitkauskas ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 11:22:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: LA: St. Valentine's Eve Reading, Beyond Baroque, 7 p.m. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TONIGHT, Sunday, February 13, 2005 St. Valentine's Eve reading featuring the love poetry of Sarah Maclay Gail Wronsky Catherine Daly Maclay is author of WHORE ("intimations of love ... in poems of heart-wreck") Wronsky's most recent book is POEMS FOR INFIDELS ("guilty . . . of beauty") Daly will read love poems from her forthcoming LOCKET as well as from DADADA ("hypnotically twisted love tome investigating the ... erotics of communication") 7 p.m. Beyond Baroque 681 Venice Blvd. Venice, CA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:11:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Russell Golata Subject: Re: the tiniest the smallworldmurmur s images Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Thank You Allan. I believe you have captured a tiny piece of solitude. > the smallworldmurmur s images
> small exquisite murmurs of the world
> murmuringshoresoftime
> inconceivablebeauty s withdrawnslowly
> murmuringsilent lovely s
>
> http://www.asondheim.org/smallworldmurmur114306.jpg
> http://www.asondheim.org/smallworldmurmur114305.jpg
> http://www.asondheim.org/smallworldmurmur114304.jpg
> http://www.asondheim.org/smallworldmurmur114303.jpg
> http://www.asondheim.org/smallworldmurmur114302.jpg
>
>
> ___
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/05
>
> -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/05 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:24:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Wanda Phippson SF TV MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hey: If you happen to be in San Francisco tonight (Sunday, Feb. 13th) check out my appearance on All Booked Up a T.V.interview/talk show about writers with host Peter Bejger at 8:30pm on Channel 29 Access SF fabulous prime-time! If you won’t be in SF, why not let your SF friends know about it. Best, Wanda -- Wanda Phipps Wake-Up Calls: 66 Morning Poems my first full-length book of poetry has just been released by Soft Skull Press available at the Soft Skull site: http://www.softskull.com/detailedbook.php?isbn=1-932360-31-X and on Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/193236031X/ref=rm_item and don't forget to check out my website MIND HONEY http://www.mindhoney.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 12:19:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: quote for amy king In-Reply-To: <20050212195740.6D94213F45@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii They're also good for predicting people & weather ... --- furniture_ press wrote: > "Constipation is a sign of good health in > pomeranians." > > Samuel Beckett > > www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net > Check out our value-added Premium features, such as > a 1 GB mailbox for just US$9.95 per year! > > > Powered by Outblaze > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:19:09 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: More on the topic in a different light In-Reply-To: <062JBLRvq1312S17.1108316286@uwdvg007.cms.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jon, I don't have much to comment here, I simply agree with you. Even if that "Please don't hurt me" can be saved, it could be a good initial step towards civilized manners. Take care, Anny On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 09:38:06 -0800, Jon Corelis wrote: > Trying to think through the Brown quote (given in my posting under the subject > "The topic in a different light") in case anyone's still interested: > > When Brown talks about "linguistic analysts [who] have had the project of > getting rid of the disease in language by reducing language to purely > operational terms," I think he's referring to theories of language which > insist that language has no meaning except what it's given by its context. In > this view, language is "purely" operational because it is atelic: it operates > without operating to any end; it works without working *for* anything; it > means without meaning anything in particular. Obviously this view is, or at > least is close to, the view of language which has subsequently become > popularly known as structuralist or post-structuralist. A poetics based on > such a view -- what I called a Witttgensteinian poetics -- will see the role > of poetry as being to liberate language from the delusory quality that > Wittgenstein attributed to it, in order to ... what? > > In order to do nothing. And this is the problem. The purpose of liberating > language should be to enable the poet to use it to reveal meanings which can't > be revealed if language remains bound to what we deludedly call reality, if > the words remain locked in their nominalist prison. It's dream-work. Just as > the psyche's dream-worker can only construct symbolic meaning by liberating > sensory images from their quotidian meaning, so the poet can only construct > meaning in a language which has been liberated from the delusion that it > represents our experience. Or to put it another way, words must be liberated > from their ordinary meanings before the poet is able to use them to construct > metaphors, and metaphor, as Aristotle said, is the essence of poetic genius. > There are indeed times when a cigar is only a cigar, but the dream time, > whether of the psychic dream worker, the shaman, or the poet, > isn't one of them. > > The result of a poetics that stops with Wittgenstein instead of beginning with > him will be a poetry that offers nothing but a savor of the meaninglessness of > the universe: it will be a poetry that turns the world into a kalaidescope > which it invites us to delight in passively like a baby reclining under a > fascinating jangling and shining crib toy. > > And from a psychoanalytic standpoint the profoundly infantile nature of such a > poetry cannot of course be accidental. Reversion to infantile passivity is > the classic simple hysterical response to prolonged unbearable threat. The > constructors of such a poetry are acting as artists in spite of themselves, > imitating the action of the human self in a world which has made it impossible > to live a human life. The unconscious message of such poetry is, "Please > don't hurt me." > > ===================================== > Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org > > www.geocities.com/joncpoetics > ===================================== > > ____________________________________________________________________ > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 16:32:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: alan sondheim scholar elimination tango MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed alan sondheim scholar elimination tango kaley performance b an young thoma on gimokud bomb media talan len ed i literary notion alan view html the partial in network by di tion sant that community cited sondheim digital warnell code wind see f of ba mark vedral camilo poem regard manovich mez cached con ceptual re lucid reference trace internet other and language lasay fragment quevedo page codework chrieben beyond probehandeln wurde ia dem ready literature arbeiten ge ertation franklin furnace vrml ted virtual for memmott weight mind a e bei breeze configuring ha are new c m mem text how chatelain higga programm die piele lz collaboration who da kuhlmann dream poetry j jcs combinatory four har s d schrift teller taken mit from zeit argument underlying entwickelt wang der ga ition po cour beitung compo one mu interessante tmodern netzliteraturproject me neun technology columbine ex with bowling chen overlooked engli warum zuwenig de demon iker middle sprache thesen ierte dan und t have review fine apm relea ro zur plurali volume no interactivity virginia crafting tudent es each patrick gibt ler crogan working phon validation elf taught their univer moore amerika computerproze blade completion upon flanagan excellence prince my number people tract identity letter ubmitted during mia p sharon mr fulfillment horn eudo notions others as toni dissertation writing question based is higgason lens this myth notes references harsdoerffer to mary lucidity artists codeworks soup dreaming up column exchange permanenten recently geschrieben has beispiele discourse das beitungsprogramm bedichtet composition l schriftsteller gastautor einen frodo cubbison explores postmodern des musiker englischen response demonstrated student n will computerprozessierte reviews rosa course release archipelago authenticity condition art university mce singerman abstract pluralism speculations following petit modem studio letters self thomas pseudo real input submitted === ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 13:49:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: by the VAG Comments: To: Cybersuds , BRITISH-POETS , Vispo newsletter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Watching the Detective Watching the Detective http://eyesoflaura.org "The conceit is half Blair Witch Project, half Paul Auster; 'Laura,' an artist working as guard at the Vancouver Art Gallery, makes art out of allowing visitors to her website to take charge of the museum's cameras and see what she sees. 'Sometimes I wonder whether more happens because I'm watching or whether events line themselves up for my benefit or something,' she reflects in her first diary entry on the site, dated September 1, 2004. Every few days, something new is posted, including video clips from the day's observations. These have slowly coalesced into a mystery of sorts, as the narrator obsesses over the interactions of the milieu's recurring characters--a detective, a skateboarder, and an odd woman. True to that initial entry's promise, as you watch the narrator piece together the clues, you can never be sure whether something is 'really' going on, or whether it's in her head. Nevertheless, all the references to Blow-up, The Conversation and other fictions in which the observer becomes the observed make one guess that Laura's job is about to become even more interesting. . . ." Ben Davis on Rhizome.org (New York) Something tells me Janet Cardiff might know something about this project. You see how text and image and audio and web technology blend in this piece. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:34:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Taylor Subject: Jessica L. Torres on SpiralBridge MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Take a minute to check out the work of=85 =20 Jessica L. Torres the Featured Poet on SpiralBridge.org and the featured poet @ the February 27th installment of The Naked Readings in Montclair, NJ =20 =20 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jessica Torres is a Nuyorican coming to you by way of the Bronx-- Riverdale, but the Bronx nonetheless. An organizer of the Acentos Poetry Series and a member of the louderARTS Project, she is obsessed with her journals and makes believe the world understands her overall paranoia. A teaching artist and advisor in Bronx high schools with ASPIRA of New York, Inc., she hopes for a book but knows getting published won't validate her as a writer. Her primary influences are el Reverendo Pedro Pietri, Mart=EDn Espada, Nicanor Parra, Langston Hughes, Julia de = Burgos, among other contemporary poets she's come across. She has been a featured poet/performer at Bar13, SOUL NATION at Bluestocking Bookstore, The Point, Hunter College, Amherst College, Illinois State University, William Paterson University & the synonymUS Ascencion showcase at the Chashama Art Space. Poetry found her like sun in her eyes, spawning an inseparable love/hate relationship between them. She is slowly recovering. Her work can be found in her first chapbook, Seven by Seven. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ =20 "Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted." -Martin Luther King Jr.=20 =20 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.SpiralBridge.org =20 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ =20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 00:15:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: splish spalsh MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed splish spalsh splash splash splash spalsh spalsh oh oh oh i have something to tell you splash spalsh you a-maze me spalsh splash you are getting me all wet slosh splosh splish splush you are better looking than she is splosh sloshp you are much better looking than she is splesh splash splush splosh splish you are wiggling you are wiggling and you splush splash are many wiggling don't fall down the doors ! you are going to fall down the doors! http://www.asondheim.org/shuddertalk.mov http://www.asondheim.org/maze.jpg __ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 00:15:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: ELLEN ZWEIG and LESLIE THORNTON screening at Millennium MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1435724414-1108358124=:29174" This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-1435724414-1108358124=:29174 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE ELLEN ZWEIG and LESLIE THORNTON screening at Millennium (I've seen these works and they're terrific - do come - Alan) Saturday, February 19 at 8 pm - you are invited to a video/film screening - Ellen Zweig and Leslie Thornton's Adynata Zweig's video series HEAP and the world premiere of her 2005 video "a surplus of landscape" screens with Thornton's 1984 masterpiece, Adyanata. at Millenium Film Workshop, 66 East 4th St., NYC Admission:=A0 $7;members: $5 for information: phone:=A0 212-673-0090 web:=A0 www. milleniumfilm.org --0-1435724414-1108358124=:29174-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 21:28:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: graves, graves, graves, graves . . . MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Grave Failures I climbed a Boojum once to see if from up there I would be free to become more than dad told me I would amount to writing poetry... The man insisted I become someone solid not a pauper or a literary bum he harped he nagged he ragged on me till I felt numb and then you see I crushed his dreams of my success by majoring to his distress=20 in liberal arts, "Oh woe is me!" He cried I climbed a Boojum when he died wishing he were at my side... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Weiss=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 7:20 AM Subject: Re: graves, graves, graves, graves . . . The pictures don't do them justice. A boojum forest is like riding = through a landscape by Dr. Seuss. The Baja California boojum region is = something like 200 miles long. Mark At 09:18 AM 2/13/2005, you wrote: >boojum tree - definition from gcide > cirio \cirio\ n. > the candlewood of Mexico and couthwestern California > >Idria columnaris > or >Fouquieria columnaris), having tall columnar stems and bearing >honey-scented creamy yellow flowers; -- > called also the boojum tree. > > >some images at = http://helios.bto.ed.ac.uk/bto/desertecology/boojum.htm > >Boojum at U of Arizona: = http://arboretum.arizona.edu/boojum.html > >from the Desert Ecology web site: > >The boojum tree is one of the strangest plants imaginable. For most = of the >year it is leafless and looks like a giant upturned turnip. Its = common name >was coined by the plant explorer Godfrey Sykes, who found it in 1922 = and >said "It must be a boojum!". In saying this, he was referring of the >strange and mythical creature that the author Lewis Carroll called a = boojum >in his children's book, The Hunting of the Snark. The Spanish common = name >for this tree is Cirio, referring to its candle-like appearance. > >The plant itself is restricted to a relatively small region of the = Baja >California peninsula of Mexico (but with a small population also on = the >extreme western side of state of Sonora on the Mexican mainland). = However, >within this restricted region it is very common and sometimes forms = forests >that dominate the landscape on rocky hillsides or flat plains. In = other >cases the boojum grows in mixed communities with two other = characteristic >large stem succulents of the Baja California Desert - the giant = cardon >cactus and the elephant tree (Pachycormus). > >Individual boojum trees can live for up to 100 years, and possibly up = to >300 years, reaching a height of 18 metres. But the wood of their = trunks is >not very strong, so the plants are susceptible to damage by periodic >hurricanes, which probably limit their natural age. The trunks of = boojums >often branch near the tops, and sometimes contort into strange = shapes, even >bending to touch the ground. The trunks contain succulent tissues = that >store moisture, so they are of the general type termed stem = succulents. >They have greyish-white bark and for most of the year are dormant, >protected from water loss by a thick epidermal layer. Thin, = pencil-like >branches arise along the length of the stem and rapidly produce thin, >rounded leaves in response to rain. These leaves soon wither and are = shed >in drought conditions. > >Boojums produce clusters of creamy white flowers at the tips of the = trunks >in July-August. These flowers resemble the flowers of ocotillo and of >Adam's tree - both of which are very closely related plants in the = ocotillo >family (Fouquieriaceae). > > > >At 01:30 AM 2/13/2005, you wrote: >>sorry really haven't been following any of this but what's a = booojum? > >charles alexander / chax press > >fold the book inside the book keep it open always > read from the inside out speak then ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 01:04:58 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Catfish McDarris MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Catfish McDarris is alive. Just heard from him, in Milwaukee now. Enough with the rumors. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 00:56:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Catfish McDarris Comments: To: editor@pavementsaw.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline What a relief. >>> David Baratier 02/14/05 1:04 AM >>> Catfish McDarris is alive. Just heard from him, in Milwaukee now. Enough with the rumors. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 02:21:45 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: Catfish McDarris MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit where's the oatmeal response? (By the way, one of the reasons for not being at AWP really was a serious situation due to importing grains, specifically a bag of oats. It was nebraska and we had a 100 pound bag and this last time they only allowed 50lbs after years of this practice. When you are not allowed back into the states from Canada due to oats for oatmeal I think it is our President's fault. ) Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 03:43:59 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit don't amount to nothin' but a hill of beans ... burn white music burn .... gall & or gall 4:00....drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 07:07:40 -0500 Reply-To: Ron Silliman Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Of late on Silliman's Blog Comments: To: WOM-PO@listserv.muohio.edu, BRITISH-POETS@jiscmail.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS Exchanges =E2=80=93 Reading Robert Duncan's unpublished 3rd section of the HD Book A season in DSL Hell PhillySound interviews Silliman: of Woundwood, pens & process The train wreck that is the Paris Review What I heard about Iraq: Eliot Weinberger's antiwar masterpiece Writing Creeley when you're not Robert Creeley A note on email A dream of Robert Creeley Eli Drabman's impossible poetry -- mad gyroscope spinning How do you begin a poem? A test case: Zyxt Plotting plotless prose vs. the prose poem (Venn diagram included) The Peril of the Poetry Reading: Dan Groff's comments at the Academy of American Poets The 250,000th visitor is=E2=80=A6 http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ *********************************** Theorizing presents: Ron Silliman Plotless Prose: Robert Duncan & The H.D. Book Wednesday, February 23 6:00 PM, Kelly Writers House University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:07:05 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Jon Corelis - Can Poetry Liberate Language? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jon, I'm extremely interested in this. Philosophical poetry and prose is largely divided into two camps. Those who hope for this liberation and who have a general idea of to what - and - those who don't, but who nevertheless use language to make their point that there is no point to language. Mary Jo =================== Trying to think through the Brown quote (given in my posting under the subject "The topic in a different light") in case anyone's still interested: When Brown talks about "linguistic analysts [who] have had the project of getting rid of the disease in language by reducing language to purely operational terms," I think he's referring to theories of language which insist that language has no meaning except what it's given by its context. In this view, language is "purely" operational because it is atelic: it operates without operating to any end; it works without working *for* anything; it means without meaning anything in particular. Obviously this view is, or at least is close to, the view of language which has subsequently become popularly known as structuralist or post-structuralist. A poetics based on such a view -- what I called a Witttgensteinian poetics -- will see the role of poetry as being to liberate language from the delusory quality that Wittgenstein attributed to it, in order to ... what? In order to do nothing. And this is the problem. The purpose of liberating language should be to enable the poet to use it to reveal meanings which can't be revealed if language remains bound to what we deludedly call reality, if the words remain locked in their nominalist prison. It's dream-work. Just as the psyche's dream-worker can only construct symbolic meaning by liberating sensory images from their quotidian meaning, so the poet can only construct meaning in a language which has been liberated from the delusion that it represents our experience. Or to put it another way, words must be liberated from their ordinary meanings before the poet is able to use them to construct metaphors, and metaphor, as Aristotle said, is the essence of poetic genius. There are indeed times when a cigar is only a cigar, but the dream time, whether of the psychic dream worker, the shaman, or the poet, isn't one of them. The result of a poetics that stops with Wittgenstein instead of beginning with him will be a poetry that offers nothing but a savor of the meaninglessness of the universe: it will be a poetry that turns the world into a kalaidescope which it invites us to delight in passively like a baby reclining under a fascinating jangling and shining crib toy. And from a psychoanalytic standpoint the profoundly infantile nature of such a poetry cannot of course be accidental. Reversion to infantile passivity is the classic simple hysterical response to prolonged unbearable threat. The constructors of such a poetry are acting as artists in spite of themselves, imitating the action of the human self in a world which has made it impossible to live a human life. The unconscious message of such poetry is, "Please don't hurt me." ===================================== Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org _www.geocities.com/joncpoetics_ (http://www.geocities.com/joncpoetics) I offered the Norman O. Brown quote here because I thought it has a striking and specific relevance to contemporary poetics. Brown wrote that some "linguistic analysts have had the project of getting rid of the disease in language by reducing language to purely operational terms." It seems to me that some contemporary American poets have engaged in a similar project to create a poetry which uses language purely operationally, and for the same reason: as part of what Wittgenstein called philosophy's "battle against the bewitchment [Verhexung] of our intelligence by means of language." I think that this project, as Brown also says of the project of the linguistic analysts he mentioned, will fail because it is impossible, and anyway would be pointless if it succeeded. As Brown says, "a purely operational language would be a language without a libidinal (erotic) component; and psychoanalysis would suggest that such a project is impossible because language, like man, has an erotic base, and also useless because man cannot be persuaded to operate (work) for operation's sake." For "language" in the foregoing sentence substitute "poetry," and you can take it as a critique of certain current avant-garde poetics. Poetry, like psychoanalysis, should begin where Wittgenstein ends. A Wittgensteinian poetics will result only in an aridly endless restatement of the problem, but what the poet must provide is a solution. Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org _www.geocities.com/joncpoetics_ (http://www.geocities.com/joncpoetics) ======================== If, in the history of every child, language is first of all a mode of erotic expression and then later succumbs to the domination of the reality-principle, it follows, or perhaps we should say mirrors, the path taken by the human psyche and must share the ultimate fate of the human psyche, namely neurosis ... To regard human speech, the self-evident sign of our superiority over animals, as a disease, or at least as essentially diseased, is for common sense ... a monstrous hypothesis. Yet psychoanalysis, which insists on the necessary connection between cultural achievement and neurosis and between social organization and neurosis, and which therefore defines man as the neurotic animal, can hardly take any other position. ... if psychoanalysis is carried to the logical conclusion that language is neurotic, it can join hands with the twentieth century school of linguistic analysis -- a depth analysis of language -- inspired by that man with a real genius for the psychopathology of language, Wittgenstein. He said, "Philosophy is a battle against the bewitchment [Verhexung] of our intelligence by means of language." Some of these linguistic analysts have had the project of getting rid of the disease in language by reducing language to purely operational terms. From the psychoanalytic point of view, a purely operational language would be a language without a libidinal (erotic) component; and psychoanalysis would suggest that such a project is impossible because language, like man, has an erotic base, and also useless because man cannot be persuaded to operate (work) for operation's sake. Wittgenstein, if I understand him correctly, has a position much closer to that of psychoanalysis; he limits the task of philosophy to that of recognizing the inevitable insanity of language. "My aim is," he says, "to teach you to pass from a piece of disguised nonsense to something that is patent nonsense." "He who understands me finally recognizes [my propositions] as senseless." Psychoanalysis begins where Wittgenstein ends. The problem is not the disease of language, but the disease called man. -- Norman O. Brown, Life against Death ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 07:57:26 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: fwd: John Cage makes the Top 40 Comments: To: Writing and Theory across Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: "gary butler" To: Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 1:13 AM Subject: [oddmusic] John Cage makes the Top 40 ABC radio recently ran a poll for the 100 most popular pieces of piano music - "the one piece of piano music you can't live without?" I'm proud to say that my campaign to get John Cage's 4'33" on the list was a success (it is the only piece which I literally can't live without - as long as I'm alive, I'll hear ambient sound, but I could choose not to listen to a Beethoven sonata). Made it to number 40! Next campaign is getting Stockhausen videos played on MTV (could be more challenging). Most of the winners were the predictable classical names, though I was impressed to see "Chopsticks" at no. 7 http://www.abc.net.au/classic/classic100/countdown.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:06:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek White Subject: Re: graves, graves, graves, graves . MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Boojum Trees are enough to inspire song in anyone... http://www.calamaripress.com/Music/Boojum_Tree_by_Derek_White.mp3 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 10:20:18 -0500 From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: graves, graves, graves, graves . . . The pictures don't do them justice. A boojum forest is like riding through a landscape by Dr. Seuss. The Baja California boojum region is something like 200 miles long. Mark At 09:18 AM 2/13/2005, you wrote: >boojum tree - definition from gcide > cirio \cirio\ n. > the candlewood of Mexico and couthwestern California > >Idria columnaris > or >Fouquieria columnaris), having tall columnar stems and bearing >honey-scented creamy yellow flowers; -- > called also the boojum tree. > > >some images at http://helios.bto.ed.ac.uk/bto/desertecology/boojum.htm > >Boojum at U of Arizona: http://arboretum.arizona.edu/boojum.html > >from the Desert Ecology web site: > >The boojum tree is one of the strangest plants imaginable. For most of the >year it is leafless and looks like a giant upturned turnip. Its common name >was coined by the plant explorer Godfrey Sykes, who found it in 1922 and >said "It must be a boojum!". In saying this, he was referring of the >strange and mythical creature that the author Lewis Carroll called a boojum >in his children's book, The Hunting of the Snark. The Spanish common name >for this tree is Cirio, referring to its candle-like appearance. > >The plant itself is restricted to a relatively small region of the Baja >California peninsula of Mexico (but with a small population also on the >extreme western side of state of Sonora on the Mexican mainland). However, >within this restricted region it is very common and sometimes forms forests >that dominate the landscape on rocky hillsides or flat plains. In other >cases the boojum grows in mixed communities with two other characteristic >large stem succulents of the Baja California Desert - the giant cardon >cactus and the elephant tree (Pachycormus). > >Individual boojum trees can live for up to 100 years, and possibly up to >300 years, reaching a height of 18 metres. But the wood of their trunks is >not very strong, so the plants are susceptible to damage by periodic >hurricanes, which probably limit their natural age. The trunks of boojums >often branch near the tops, and sometimes contort into strange shapes, even >bending to touch the ground. The trunks contain succulent tissues that >store moisture, so they are of the general type termed stem succulents. >They have greyish-white bark and for most of the year are dormant, >protected from water loss by a thick epidermal layer. Thin, pencil-like >branches arise along the length of the stem and rapidly produce thin, >rounded leaves in response to rain. These leaves soon wither and are shed >in drought conditions. > >Boojums produce clusters of creamy white flowers at the tips of the trunks >in July-August. These flowers resemble the flowers of ocotillo and of >Adam's tree - both of which are very closely related plants in the ocotillo >family (Fouquieriaceae). > > > >At 01:30 AM 2/13/2005, you wrote: >>sorry really haven't been following any of this but what's a booojum? > >charles alexander / chax press > >fold the book inside the book keep it open always > read from the inside out speak then ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:52:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: blue poets in red state KANSAS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Looking for a Blue Poet in Kansas. Anyone out there?=20 Michael www.bigbridge.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:55:29 -0500 Reply-To: Ron Silliman Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Dick Bridgman, Stein scholar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had Dick Bridgman for a tutorial on Melville back when he was in the midst of writing Gertrude Stein in pieces. He was a very supportive teacher & certainly was the only person I knew on the faculty at Berkeley at that point (I met Grenier a bit later) who thought that reading Melville & reading Stein made perfect sense together. We used to have great chats on that very topic, Ron Richard Bridgman -- retired UC Berkeley professor, author - Charles Burress, Chronicle Staff Writer Monday, February 14, 2005 Richard Bridgman, a retired UC Berkeley English professor who covered the Toledo Mud Hens as a sportswriter, went to sea on an oil tanker and reshaped the reputations of Gertrude Stein and Henry David Thoreau, has died at age 77. Professor Bridgman died Jan. 27 at his Berkeley home after a short battle with cancer. Born in Toledo, Ohio, he fled his home state as soon as he graduated from high school and joined the Navy near the end of World War II. After a stint with the merchant marine on an oil tanker, he took off for the life of an expatriate in France. He returned to Ohio for a short reporting career at a Toledo newspaper and also worked for TWA in New York, his family said. He studied for a year at Stanford (1947-48), and later resumed his college education under the distinguished historian and English professor, Henry Nash Smith, at Berkeley, where he earned three degrees in English: a bachelor's in 1956, a master's in 1957 and a Ph.D. in 1960. After teaching at Dartmouth College in New Hampshire for two years, he returned to Berkeley as an assistant professor in 1962 and won tenure four years later. He wrote influential works on Stein, Thoreau, Mark Twain and colloquial American English, among other topics. "They're very important books," said his Berkeley colleague of four decades, emeritus English Professor Morton Paley. "He was recognized as a really great Americanist." Professor Bridgman's "Gertrude Stein in Pieces," published in 1970, is regarded as a classic and helped relocate the reputation of Stein from the periphery of American letters to her being regarded as "a central figure of the American expatriate movement," Paley said. Professor Bridgman's interest in Stein, who lived for a time in Paris, was probably fueled by his own youthful adventure living among American expats in France, said his son, Roy Bridgman. In "Dark Thoreau" (1982), Professor Bridgman recast the dreamy transcendentalist of Walden Pond as a "a literary psychopath," to borrow the hyperbolic description of Bridgman's Thoreau from another Thoreau scholar, the late Carl Bode. His other influential books include "The Colloquial Style in America" in 1966 and "Traveling in Mark Twain" in 1987. He had been working on a book about the writings of George Washington, but that project was aborted after his manuscripts and research were destroyed in the Oakland-Berkeley hills fire in 1991. During the Cold War in 1974, when American professors were rare in Russia, he became the first American to hold a newly established visiting chair at that nation's most prestigious center of higher learning, Moscow State University. Upon his retirement in 1989, he was awarded one of the campus' highest honors, the Berkeley Citation. He won praise not only for his scholarship but also for his contributions to the university. Possessing a marked sense of ethics, he was called "the good conscience of us all" by one colleague and was elected by his peers to the English department's Advisory Committee more frequently during his tenure than anyone else. He also served as the chair of the Mark Twain Project at the Bancroft Library in the 1970s and played a leading role on the faculty committee on campus libraries. He is survived by his sons Roy of Sonora and Joel of Berkeley; his daughter Cynthia Josayma of Berkeley; and two grandchildren. A memorial gathering will be held 4 p.m. Thursday at the Faculty Club on the Berkeley campus. Page B - 4 URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/02/14/BAGUBBAL7U1.DTL ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 10:25:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: John Cage makes the Top 40 In-Reply-To: <11f8799db8120a45f50f66607630a9bc@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hmm, I may be wrong, but isn't 4'33" scored for any instrument or combination of instruments? Hal, remembering that Elliott Carter once made the annual top-40 list in Cincinnati { ABC radio recently ran a poll for the 100 most popular pieces of piano { music - "the one piece of piano music you can't live without?" I'm { proud to say that my campaign to get John Cage's 4'33" on the list was { a success (it is the only piece which I literally can't live without - { as long as I'm alive, I'll hear ambient sound, but I could choose not { to listen to a Beethoven sonata). Made it to number 40! Next campaign { is getting Stockhausen videos played on MTV (could be more { challenging). Most of the winners were the predictable classical names, { though I was impressed to see "Chopsticks" at no. 7 { { http://www.abc.net.au/classic/classic100/countdown.htm { ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:28:30 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: John Cage makes the Top 40 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hal: Good point. Here's the original score here: http://www.medienkunstnetz.de/works/4-33/ But I think as a rule, the classic performances of it have all been at a piano. I saw Ellsworth Snyder perform it in Madison in the 80s sitting at a baby grand. mIEKAL On Feb 14, 2005, at 9:25 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Hmm, I may be wrong, but isn't 4'33" scored for any instrument or > combination of instruments? > > Hal, remembering that Elliott Carter once made the annual top-40 > list in Cincinnati > > { ABC radio recently ran a poll for the 100 most popular pieces of > piano > { music - "the one piece of piano music you can't live without?" I'm > { proud to say that my campaign to get John Cage's 4'33" on the > list was > { a success (it is the only piece which I literally can't live > without - > { as long as I'm alive, I'll hear ambient sound, but I could choose > not > { to listen to a Beethoven sonata). Made it to number 40! Next > campaign > { is getting Stockhausen videos played on MTV (could be more > { challenging). Most of the winners were the predictable classical > names, > { though I was impressed to see "Chopsticks" at no. 7 > { > { http://www.abc.net.au/classic/classic100/countdown.htm > { > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 07:50:08 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Our President Answers the Question: Duh!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I know you will all want to calculate the impact of the social security = changes on you and your families based on this "lucid" analysis spoken by our = president=20 as he attempted to answer a question from a woman in his audience. =20 Subject: The NEW Social Security WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: I don't really understand. How is it the new [Social Security] plan is going to fix that problem? GEORGE W. BUSH: "Because the -- all which is on the table begins to = address the big cost drivers. For example, how benefits are calculated, for = example, is on the table. Whether or not benefits rise based upon wage increases = or price increases. There's a series of parts of the formula that are being considered. And when you couple that, those different cost drivers, affecting those -- changing those with personal accounts, the idea is to = get what has been promised more likely to be -- or closer delivered to what = has been promised. Does that make any sense to you? It's kind of muddled. = Look, there's a series of things that cause the -- like, for example, benefits = are calculated based upon the increase of wages, as opposed to the increase = of prices. Some have suggested that we calculate -- the benefits will rise based upon inflation, as opposed to wage increases. There is a reform = that would help solve the red if that were put into effect. In other words, = how fast benefits grow, how fast the promised benefits grow, if those -- if = that growth is affected, it will help on the red." -- Dubya explains the virtues of his Social Security plan, Tampa, Florida, Feb. 4, 2005 Now, is this pure poetic use of the language or what? Alex=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 10:36:48 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: blue poets in red state KANSAS In-Reply-To: <015101c512a4$e1025490$1c6a8104@MICHAEL> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" kenneth irby? jonathan mayhew? At 9:52 AM -0500 2/14/05, Michael Rothenberg wrote: >Looking for a Blue Poet in Kansas. Anyone out there? >Michael >www.bigbridge.org -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 11:48:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Shankar, Ravi (English)" Subject: RS on Querying the Connossieur of Chaos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anyone interested in the rather fraught Wallace Stevens conference that = took place at UConn last spring, check: http://www.electronicbookreview.com/v3/servlet/ebr?command=3Dview_essay&e= ssay_id=3Dshankarele ***************=20 Ravi Shankar=20 Poet-in-Residence=20 Assistant Professor=20 CCSU - English Dept.=20 860-832-2766=20 shankarr@ccsu.edu=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 10:53:24 -0500 Reply-To: Mike Kelleher Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Kelleher Organization: Just Buffalo Literary Center Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 2-14-05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IN THE HIBISCUS ROOM James Koller and Joel Kuszai Friday, February 18, 8 p.m. $4, $3 student, $2 members Included in Don Allen's & Robert Creeley's English Penguin anthology of New American Writing (1967), in Italy's first Beat anthology - Fernanda Pivano's L'Atra America Negli Anni Sessanta, & in Donald Allen's The Postmoderns, James Koller has published thirty-four collections of poetry, three novels, an autobiography & numerous essays. First published (1961) in Diane DiPrima's "The Floating Bear" (NYC), & in John Ashbury's "Locus Solus" (Paris), his writing has been translated into Italian, French, Spanish, German, Dutch & Swedish. He has translated the work of others from French & Italian into English. Joel Kuszai has been involved in independent publishing as a writer and publisher for twenty years. After studying at Reed and SUNY-Buffalo, he been primarily interested in the cultural history of resistance literature and student publishing. After eight years of publishing chapbooks under the imprint Meow Press, with Bill Marsh in San Diego he founded the Factory School learning and production collective. Since September 2001 he has lived in the Cayuga Basin, where he teaches cultural rhetoric and researches student writing. Second Annual Erotica Open Reading Friday, March 4, 7:30 p.m. $4, $3 student, $2 members Spread a sheet. Whip out a pen. Lay down some erotica. Just Buffalo's annual Erotic Open Reading, hosted by Madame Karen Lewis, is back. Get the juices flowing! Push boundaries! Sexperiment! Open to all who desire (and write about it). Readings limited to 5 minutes per person. WORKSHOPS Beginning this week: PLAYWRITING BASICS, with Kurt SchneIderman 8 Tuesdays, February 15- April 5, 7-9 p.m. $250, $200 for members Playwright Basics is a weekly workshop open to novice and experienced playwrights alike. The purpose of the course is to allow participants to develop playwriting abilities through actual writing and in-class feed back. Structured as a workshop, the format will allow all participants to produce and bring in their own work to be read aloud and critiqued by everyone involved. In addition there will be readinga of various classic theatre texts and discussion of playwriting structure and theory. Participants can expect to emerge from this course with some written and workshopped dialogue, and with an introduction to the overall theoretical framework of dramatic writing. Kurt Schneiderman is currently the Dramaturg for the Buffalo Ensemble Theatre, the Co ordinator of the annual new play competition the Area Playwrights' Performance Series, and the Director of the monthly new play forum Play Readings & Stuff. Named one of "Buffalo's emerging young playwrights" by Gusto Magazine and Buffalo's "next A.R. Gurney" by Artvoice Magazine, Kurt was the winner of the Helen Mintz Award for Best New Play (2003) and was nominated for the Artie Award for Outstanding New Play (2004). Most recently, one of Kurt's plays was chosen for the 2004 Toronto Fringe Festival. Also know for his work as dramatic critic, Kurt has written theatrical reviews for Outcome, Buffalo Beat, Blue Dog, Traffic East, and Nightlife Magazines. Currently he is a staff writer for the Buffalo Jewish Review. Next week: LET'S BE QUICK ABOUT THIS: AN INTRO TO SHORT SHORT FICTION, with FoRrest Roth Saturday, February 26, 12-4 p.m. $50, $40 Members Think of the shortest story you have ever written; then imagine cutting its length in half. This is what it takes to start creating a streamlined short story, usually referred to as a "short short." But is a short short simply determined by the number of words used? Is it an abbreviated character study? Does it even have plot development to speak of? To answer these questions, we will look at contemporary American writers excelling in very short stories, such as Diane Williams and Gary Lutz, as well as Modernists who experimented with the form. We will also attempt our own short shorts and brave the intriguing hazzards of paring fiction down to 100 words (or less!). Forrest Roth is a graduate of the MFA Creative Writing program at Goddard College. He currently teaches creative writing at Medaille College and has stories forthcoming in NOON. TRIMANIA 2005 The Buffalo's biggest party is back - March 19, 2005. Visit http://www.justbuffalo.org/events/special_events.shtml For details, or call 832-5400. IF ALL OF BUFFALO READ THE SAME BOOK This year's title, The Invention of Solitude, by Paul Auster, is available at area bookstores. All books purchased at Talking Leaves Books will benefit Just Buffalo. Paul Auster will visit Buffalo October 5-6. A reader' s discussion guide is available on the Just Buffalo website. Presented in conjunction with Hodgson Russ LLP, WBFO 88.7 FM and Talking Leaves Books. For sponsorship opportunities (and there are many), please contact Laurie Torrell or Mike Kelleher at 832-5400. 2ND ANNUAL BOOMDAYS POETRY CONTEST BOOMDAYS is a celebration of the advent of Spring, commencing each year with the lifting of the Lake Erie-Niagara River Ice Boom. It will be held on Friday, April 1 at The Pier from 4:00 PM to midnight. Contest: Write a poem about the beginning of spring. All forms of poetry are acceptable. First Prize- $200.00 Second Prize- $150.00 Third Prize- $100.00 Winning poems will be published in Artvoice and winners will be introduced by poet Janine Pomy Vega at the event. Winners must be able to read their work at the BOOMDAYS kickoff event, April 1 at The Pier from 4:00 PM to midnight. Guidelines: All ages welcome to apply. Poems should be typed and should not exceed a single page in length. Each entrant may submit only one poem. Please include name, address, and telephone number with entry. Deadline for submission is March 15, 2004. Send entries to: BOOMDAYS Poetry Contest Just Buffalo Literary Center 2495 Main Street, Suite 512 Buffalo, New York 14214 COMMUNITY LITERARY EVENTS Barry Crimmins Benefit Performance and Booksigning: Never Shake Hands with a War Criminal Thursday, February 17, at 7 pm. Talking Leaves, Main St. Never Shake Hands with a War Criminal weaves personal and political history into a heartfelt memoir of cutting humor and biting satire. In the straightforward manner of his heroes, Mark Twain and Will Rogers, Crimmins tells the story of his skeptical childhood in the frozen wastes of upstate New York (Skaneateles), his upbringing by a hard-line war veteran father and leftist mother, and his rambling life that led to Boston and the revitalization of American stand-up comedy (he founded two of Boston's fabled comedy clubs in the 1980's). Along the way he leaves no heartless reactionary crook unpummeled and no brave soul unrecognized. Ranging across the last twenty years of our trial by government and corporate kleptocracy, this unreformed political southpaw reminds us of exactly why and who we are fighting. Admission: $5 suggested donation will benefit the Buffalo Coalition for Progressive Media, an advocacy group working on broadening local media choices by working to bring alternative progressive media programs like Democracy Now! to our airwaves. UNSUBSCRIBE If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will be immediately removed. _______________________________ Mike Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center 2495 Main St., Ste. 512 Buffalo, NY 14214 716.832.5400 716.832.5710 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk@justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:18:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Leland Winks Subject: Re: Our President Answers the Question: Duh!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dare I say it? The president sounds like a language poet here... ----- Original Message ----- From: alexander saliby Date: Monday, February 14, 2005 10:50 am Subject: Our President Answers the Question: Duh!!! > I know you will all want to calculate the impact of the social > security changes > on you and your families based on this "lucid" analysis spoken by > our president > as he attempted to answer a question from a woman in his audience. > > > Subject: The NEW Social Security > > > WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: I don't really understand. How is it the new > [SocialSecurity] plan is going to fix that problem? > > GEORGE W. BUSH: "Because the -- all which is on the table begins > to address > the big cost drivers. For example, how benefits are calculated, > for example, > is on the table. Whether or not benefits rise based upon wage > increases or > price increases. There's a series of parts of the formula that are > beingconsidered. And when you couple that, those different cost > drivers,affecting those -- changing those with personal accounts, > the idea is to get > what has been promised more likely to be -- or closer delivered to > what has > been promised. Does that make any sense to you? It's kind of > muddled. Look, > there's a series of things that cause the -- like, for example, > benefits are > calculated based upon the increase of wages, as opposed to the > increase of > prices. Some have suggested that we calculate -- the benefits will > risebased upon inflation, as opposed to wage increases. There is a > reform that > would help solve the red if that were put into effect. In other > words, how > fast benefits grow, how fast the promised benefits grow, if those - > - if that > growth is affected, it will help on the red." > > -- Dubya explains the virtues > of his Social Security plan, Tampa, Florida, Feb. 4, 2005 > > Now, is this pure poetic use of the language or what? > > Alex > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:23:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: Jon Corelis - Can Poetry Liberate Language? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 "Poetry, like psychoanalysis, should begin where Wittgenstein ends. A Wittgensteinian poetics will result only in an aridly endless restatement = of the problem, but what the poet must provide is a solution." GOD FORBID THERE BE A SOLUTION! www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 18:35:00 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Cudmore Subject: Re: John Cage makes the Top 40 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well it's true that it got its first peformance by a pianist (John Tilbury?), who I believe marked the beginning and end by raising and lowering the lid. I think there are other versions scored for other ensembles. I was more bothered thinking about which Beethoven sonata not to listen to during the 4'33" -- none of them would fit, not at normal tempo anyways. But then again one's perception of time is bent while listening to music; on the other hand I once saw a contemporary dance piece without music, and was astonished to find, at the end of what I'd thought was a good 20 minutes at least, that only 5 minutes had elapsed. :P > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > Sent: 14 February 2005 15:25 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: John Cage makes the Top 40 > > Hmm, I may be wrong, but isn't 4'33" scored for any > instrument or combination of instruments? > > Hal, remembering that Elliott Carter once made the annual > top-40 list in Cincinnati > > { ABC radio recently ran a poll for the 100 most popular > pieces of piano > { music - "the one piece of piano music you can't live > without?" I'm > { proud to say that my campaign to get John Cage's 4'33" > on the list was > { a success (it is the only piece which I literally can't > live without - > { as long as I'm alive, I'll hear ambient sound, but I > could choose not > { to listen to a Beethoven sonata). Made it to number 40! > Next campaign > { is getting Stockhausen videos played on MTV (could be more > { challenging). Most of the winners were the predictable > classical names, > { though I was impressed to see "Chopsticks" at no. 7 > { > { http://www.abc.net.au/classic/classic100/countdown.htm > { > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:01:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Godel, Escher, Bach Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 There's a terrific book ,I'm sure many of you have seen/readi it: Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid. Anyone have any words about it? I'd like to talk to some folks about it, ev= en though it is pretty self-explanatory! Chris www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:52:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: John Cage makes the Top 40 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Fascinating, Is this (what you thought was a least 20 minutes...was five minutes) due to to intense concentration or to boredom? Are they related, but only as pun, or deeper coincidence? I have my own view but.... Murat ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 04:58:32 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Ratboy To Dave and Mairead--A Postcard From The Edge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" What do you think of body art? Yours, Ratboy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 05:00:38 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Ratboy Makes It To The Buffalo List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dave, I told you that boy had promise! Look at him go! Jess ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:05:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Jon Corelis - Can Poetry Liberate Language? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit amen to that chris amen solution like the final solution.. poets dream lorca tried solution provide a solution tell the truth funny poets we soooooooo import ant (s) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:28:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Catfish McDarris Comments: To: editor@pavementsaw.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit he killed himself alive? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:31:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: PUB: call for papers--latina letters MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT >>PUB: call for papers--latina letters ================================== Dear scholars, writers, teachers, and friends of literature, Attached below is our announcement and call for papers for the Tenth Annual Latina Letters conference. Please forward this information to any interested persons. Mil gracias. A Call for Papers for the Tenth Annual Latina Letters conference on Latina literature and identity July 14 - 16, 2005 sponsored by St. Mary’s University and the Guadalupe Cultural Arts Center featuring Sandra Cisneros, Pat Mora, Ana Menéndez, Lourdes Pérez, Alicia Gaspar de Alba & others CALL FOR PAPERS: Abstract Deadline (postmark): Friday, April 29, 2005 Notification by e-mail on Friday, May 11, 2005 (see page 2 for instructions) ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:32:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: konrad Subject: Re: Jon Corelis - Can Poetry Liberate Language? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed furniture_ press quoted Jon Corelis quoted by Mary Jo Malo: > "Poetry, like psychoanalysis, should begin where Wittgenstein > ends. A Wittgensteinian poetics will result only in an aridly > endless restatement of the problem, but what the poet must > provide is a solution." > GOD FORBID THERE BE A SOLUTION! It makes sense for Brown to say the 'logical conclusion' of 'linguistic analysis' is to drain the libidinal component from language. But he distinguished the reductionists from Wittgenstein in the quoted material. If his stated task was to analyze linguistic bewitchment (or in Brown's terms: neurosis), i think you can recognize in (later) Wittgenstein's *method* -- distinct from his goal -- the principle that all remarks [poems] are provisional, that there's always more to say. So i don't know how you 'end' with Wittgenstein. Or how any poets find a solution rather than multiple solutions that are each temporarily satisfactory to some people. Then they get restless again (that old libido) and do some more work. I just hate to see my man W (the *good* W) tarred with such a broad brush! And that's partly because i think he wrote some good prose poems, if unwittingly. konrad PS relevant Brown quote: "Some of these linguistic analysts have had the project of getting rid of the disease in language by reducing language to purely operational terms. From the psychoanalytic point of view, a purely operational language would be a language without a libidinal (erotic) component; and psychoanalysis would suggest that such a project is impossible because language, like man, has an erotic base, and also useless because man cannot be persuaded to operate (work) for operation's sake. Wittgenstein, if I understand him correctly, has a position much closer to that of psychoanalysis; ..." ^Z ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:33:42 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Historynotes-l Honor Puerto Rican Women MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign ProLibertad@Hotmail.com http://www.ProLibertadWeb.com Bronx 718-601-4751 Manhattan 212-927-9065 New Jersey 201-435-3244 _______________________________________________________________________________ SAVE THE DATE, SAVE THE DATE, SAVE THE DATE !! Friday March 18, 2005 6:30pm at St. Mary’s Church 521 w126th St. (Btwn. Broadway and Amsterdam Ave.) Take the 1 or 9 train to W125th St. and Broadway Donation: $10 (no one will be turned away) Food and Alcohol will be sold!! There will also be a raffle of Latin American Artisan work made by women or donated by women for $2 a ticket. Join The ProLibertad Freedom Campaign for a PARTY AND CELEBRATION dedicated to the revolutionary Puerto Rican women that have fought for the freedom and liberation of Puerto Rico and the Puerto Rican Political Prisoners!! Join us as we honor the women that have been at the heart of the struggle for Puerto Rican Independence, our Madres de la Patria/Mothers of the Nation; women like Marianna Bracetti, Lolita Lebron, Isabel Rosado, Lola Rodriguez De Tio, Adelfa Vera, Rosa Escobar, Dylcia Pagan, Carmen Valentin, Ida Luz Rodriguez, Alicia Rodriguez, Carmen Jimenez De Cancel Miranda, and many many more!! This International Working Women’s Day and Women’s History Month event is dedicated to Puerto Rican Political Prisoner Haydee Beltran Torres, who has spent 25 years of her life in jail for fighting for the independence of Puerto Rico!! Come out and Support ProLibertad, Come out and honor our Madres de La Patria/Mothers of the Nation, and help us FREE HAYDEE BELTRAN AND ALL THE PUERTO RICAN POLITICAL PRISONERS!! Program: DANCING, DELICIOUS PUERTO RICAN FOOD, AND... DJ Carlito and his All Latino Music Mix, who will be playing all the fantastic Salsa, and Merengue you can dance to all night!! Yaya, Yaya is a women's collective dedicated to preserving and promoting the rich, cultural legacies and Africa-based musical traditions of Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic. Rosie Mendez, Future City Council Woman Alina Serrano, Poetry Tanya Torres, Poetry Historynotes-l@yahoogroups.com Hotep !!! RE and Djehuti CO - Moderators - Historynotes-l check out our Diasporac news archive 24 hr a day dynamic news updates http://ausetkmt.com/diaspnewslinks.html Yahoo! Groups Links ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 16:05:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken James Subject: Re: Godel, Escher, Bach In-Reply-To: <20050214190148.A57B714865@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Not only have I read "GEB," I'm currently teaching it. I remember discovering it back in junior high school not long after it was first published, and finding it to be one of those "life-saving" books one reads as a young person. (Not that it's for young people only, obviously -- it's a challenging book! I just mean it's the kind of book that can bowl you over if you do read it when you're young.) Now I'm trying to get my own students stoked about it. They're doing well with it so far. It is a terrific book. Exuberant and unique. -- Ken Quoting furniture_ press : > There's a terrific book ,I'm sure many of you have seen/readi it: > > Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid. > > Anyone have any words about it? I'd like to talk to some folks about > it, ev> en though it is pretty self-explanatory! > > Chris > > www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net > Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox > for just> US$9.95 per year! > > > Powered by Outblaze > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 21:53:20 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Cudmore Subject: Re: John Cage makes the Top 40 In-Reply-To: <4DD8C31D.4690FE7A.001942C5@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It was the boredom. (chuckles) The rest of the programme was lovely, including a piece danced to a live gamelan band. P > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Murat Nemet-Nejat > Sent: 14 February 2005 19:52 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: John Cage makes the Top 40 > > Fascinating, > > Is this (what you thought was a least 20 minutes...was five > minutes) due to to intense concentration or to boredom? Are > they related, but only as pun, or deeper coincidence? > > I have my own view but.... > > Murat > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:23:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Danse Macabre We must build a culture of life. Je fis de Macabre la danse, Society is measured by how it treats the weak and vunerable. Qui tout gent maine a sa trace We will work with Congress to ensure that human embryos are not grown for body parts. E a l fosse les adress. Jean LeFevre/GWB/Gerald Schwartz ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:27:03 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: John Cage makes the Top 40 Comments: To: mIEKAL aND In-Reply-To: <401da91fd940375e4439e258ef82fdfc@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 14 Feb 2005 at 9:28, mIEKAL aND wrote: > Good point. Here's the original score here: > http://www.medienkunstnetz.de/works/4-33/ > But I think as a rule, the classic performances of it have all been at > a piano. I saw Ellsworth Snyder perform it in Madison in the 80s > sitting at a baby grand. I've performed it dozens of times. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:39:42 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: John Cage makes the Top 40 Comments: To: marcus@designerglass.com In-Reply-To: <4210DF67.22839.299AA0@localhost> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I think it a good time for Cage performances in Baghdad, Beirut - all the hot spots - including the W House. Four minutes & 33 seconds of silence in front of a baby grand performed with a full orchestra on the street in front of the Palestine Hotel in Baghdad - or inside the White House Situation Room - one suspects, would be monumental. The terror of what one might hear in comparison to the presence of silence might be the most provocative, inexpensive act of peace to be instilled on the planet of recent time. Top of the Top 40, indeed! Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > On 14 Feb 2005 at 9:28, mIEKAL aND wrote: >> Good point. Here's the original score here: >> http://www.medienkunstnetz.de/works/4-33/ >> But I think as a rule, the classic performances of it have all been at >> a piano. I saw Ellsworth Snyder perform it in Madison in the 80s >> sitting at a baby grand. > > I've performed it dozens of times. > > Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 07:33:04 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: [job] Instructor - Creative Writing (et al) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Location: Fremont, CA Contact: see http://tinyurl.com/4b6qe Part-time (Independent Contractors) - several English positions DeVry University Required Qualifications: Masters degree in related field. Ph.D. preferred. 2 years teaching experience or equivalent professional presentation/work experience, excellent written and verbal communication skills. ENGL-220H Creative Writing - Honors Option This alternative to ENGL-112 is offered in a workshop setting. Students explore modes of written self-expression, including poetry, fiction and drama, to experience various literary genres and produce short creative works. They also learn to apply constructive feedback to the rewrite process. A student writing anthology is produced, and the course culminates in a study of the literary marketplace. Prerequisite: Permission from the academic administrator. _______________________________ DeVry University is one of North America's leading career-focused universities for business, technology and management education. We currently have openings at our Fremont, CA campus for: Job Summary: Instructors are responsible for teaching, advising, assessing and evaluating students, and preparing lesson plans. Complies with teaching, curriculum, and other academic requirements. Conforms to ethical standards established by DeVry University. see also Orlando , FL Literature positions at http://tinyurl.com/3mpml ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:59:15 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Looks Like Virginia's After All The Twigs, Even Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed dark a arc sticks brings goes bursts perish, twigs / now, here, a cluster of ten blind bones sift thru them, ok, rather than leaf thru that sunlight dark a arc sticks brings goes bursts on the witchery edge of life poems eclipse more useful frippery (dark a arc sticks / brings goes bursts and its surrounding poem When Sun Had Unrest It Was Found Under Boats, very ferny all fissures, I flush shade with each of her steps toward the sticks) ________________ * a "cat" goes "meow" * a "brings" goes "bursts" * cat goes meow * brings goes bursts ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:49:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: John Cage makes the Top 40 In-Reply-To: <4210DF67.22839.299AA0@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit { Subject: Re: John Cage makes the Top 40 { { { On 14 Feb 2005 at 9:28, mIEKAL aND wrote: { > Good point. Here's the original score here: { > http://www.medienkunstnetz.de/works/4-33/ { > But I think as a rule, the classic performances of it have all been at { > a piano. I saw Ellsworth Snyder perform it in Madison in the 80s { > sitting at a baby grand. { { I've performed it dozens of times. { { Marcus Not often enough. Hal You Are Not Authorized to View This Page Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:43:53 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: Godel, Escher, Bach Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original I just got it from the libray a week ago or so - actually was geting a Kathy Acker book - but havent read it - imentioned it to Alan and it seems the sort of thing would interest him and (Inew he would probably have read it) - it looks interesting but someone else said it was too dry...but i have it here so will have a look - its vast though Acker dosnt impress me much so far Richard Taylor Auckland - New Zealand richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet ("Well..." ) / Chess Addict (partly recovered) /Was 15 stone - working on it -/ Grandfather/ BA /NZCE/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: --------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."---------------------- ASPECT BOOKS www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "furniture_ press" To: Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 11:01 AM Subject: Godel, Escher, Bach There's a terrific book ,I'm sure many of you have seen/readi it: Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid. Anyone have any words about it? I'd like to talk to some folks about it, even though it is pretty self-explanatory! Chris www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae -- _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:44:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: Godel, Escher, Bach Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original if its self-explanatory - why read it? Richard Taylor Auckland - New Zealand richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet ("Well..." ) / Chess Addict (partly recovered) /Was 15 stone - working on it -/ Grandfather/ BA /NZCE/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: --------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."---------------------- ASPECT BOOKS www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "furniture_ press" To: Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 11:01 AM Subject: Godel, Escher, Bach There's a terrific book ,I'm sure many of you have seen/readi it: Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid. Anyone have any words about it? I'd like to talk to some folks about it, even though it is pretty self-explanatory! Chris www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae -- _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:09:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: PUB: call for papers--latina letters In-Reply-To: <42110AA7.3030001@shaw.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Ishaq, I'm on some lists which would be interested, but this seems to lack part of the instructions. -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org Ishaq wrote: > >>PUB: call for papers--latina letters > ================================== > > Dear scholars, writers, teachers, and friends of literature, > Attached below is our announcement and call for papers for the Tenth > Annual Latina Letters conference. Please forward this information to any > interested persons. Mil gracias. > > A Call for Papers for the Tenth Annual > Latina Letters > conference on Latina literature and identity > July 14 - 16, 2005 > sponsored by > St. Mary’s University > and the Guadalupe Cultural Arts Center > featuring > Sandra Cisneros, Pat Mora, > Ana Menéndez, Lourdes Pérez, > Alicia Gaspar de Alba & others > CALL FOR PAPERS: Abstract Deadline (postmark): Friday, April 29, 2005 > Notification by e-mail on Friday, May 11, 2005 (see page 2 for > instructions) > > ___\ > Stay Strong\ > \ > "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ > --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ > \ > "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ > of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's > Vietnam"\ > --HellRazah\ > \ > "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ > --Mutabartuka\ > \ > "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ > our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ > actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ > - Frantz Fanon\ > \ > "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ > -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ > \ > http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ > \ > http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ > \ > http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ > \ > http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 21:51:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: II. the orangeline dialup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed II. 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creation vader budlite checkin dedhead oldlady csee brothers yodude buddha vjday bsdunix undergraduate vjday bsdunix! visavis zoro zork lunarlander longhair wanker dancer! scamper unixman lkj onionrings bleep openbar whereisthebeef sneezy prick stickshift baglady tribbles deadhead in xyzzy deadhead he'sdeadjim xyzzy deadhead blackboot go! demons ying mansetmanis zinfandel sanfrancisco einstein! sombrero loosing troff hocus fuckaduck zxcvbnm zxcvbnm seabreeze it'sokay dialin deadhead it'sok! __ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 23:19:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: O sweet spontaneous Comments: To: editor@pavementsaw.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >>> David Baratier 02/14/05 2:21 AM >>> where's the oatmeal response? earth how often have the doting POET REFUSES TO TACKLE OATMEAL fingers of prurient philosphers pinched and poked IT'S THE END OF OATMEAL AS WE KNOW IT thee PLEASE SIR NO MORE ,has the naughty thumb of science prodded thy OATMEAL STOCKS PLUMMET beauty .how often have religions taken BLOCKED BY OATMEAL: TAKE thee upon their scraggy knees squeezing and buffeting thee that thou mightiest conceive THE FINAL BOWL & SACK gods THE FINAL POT (but true to the incomparable couch of death thy COLD PORRIDGE rhythmic lover NO GOLDILOCKS thou answerest GIVE ME LOX & LICK'ST them only with spring) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 23:36:16 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit alawite .... not my cup of t .... maronite .... over the border beyond the sea... 12:00...'round 'bout mdnte...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 00:14:41 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Pop.: 1 Plus 5,000 Volumes Comments: To: dreamtime@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed COLUMN ONE Pop.: 1 Plus 5,000 Volumes The Nebraska town of Monowi has just Elsie Eiler left. She runs=20 everything, including the library that was her late husband's bequest. February 11, 2005 By Stephanie Simon, Times Staff Writer MONOWI, Neb. =97 Weeds twine around the disintegrating remnants of the=20= water tower and sprout in a tangle through the floorboards of the=20 grandest house in town. The Methodist church, gray with rot, slumps=20 toward the frozen ground. An empty mailbox flaps open on a gravel rut=20 that was once a road. The people of Monowi have died or moved =97 all but one: Elsie Eiler.=20= Brisk and unsentimental at 71, she lives in the one home still fit for=20= living in, a snug trailer with worn white siding. She runs the one=20 business left in Monowi, a dark, wood-paneled tavern, thick with smoke. She also runs the library. The sign outside is painted on a section of a refrigerator door. The=20= floor is bare plywood. There's no heat. But there are thousands upon=20 thousands of books. "The Complete Works of Shakespeare." "Treasure=20 Island." Trixie Belden and "The Happy Valley Mystery." Zane Grey's=20 westerns, every one of them, lined up across two shelves. Homer.=20 Tennyson. Amy Tan. Goethe. Elsie's late husband, Rudy, read them endlessly. He farmed and tended=20= bar, he ran a grain elevator, he delivered gas to filling stations, and=20= when the town was down to just him and Elsie, he served as mayor too.=20 But he always found time to read =97 science fiction, history, the=20 classics =97 anything but a Harlequin romance. When he got sick with cancer two years ago, Rudy confided a dream to=20= Elsie: He wanted to turn his collection into a public library. Rudy ordered a custom-made building and set it a few steps from his=20 home and his tavern. The Eilers' son, Jack, wired the lights, and=20 friends built floor-to-ceiling shelves. But Rudy died in January 2004,=20= before he could fill them. Five months later, his friends and family came together to pack the=20 small white building with Rudy's books. Elsie estimates they shelved at=20= least 5,000 volumes. Monowi, population 1, had its library. The farm kids who come tumbling into the tavern with their parents run=20= up to the library now and again to paw through the magazines, looking=20 for pictures of man-eating snakes. Friends visiting Elsie from the=20 neighborhood =97 any town within 50 miles =97 stop by every few months = to=20 browse. Rudy's younger brother Jim pulls his pickup to the library door=20= and carts home stacks at a time. Monowi may be the smallest town in the nation with its own library.=20 But the bounty of books here for the taking is very much in the spirit=20= of rural America. Across the Great Plains, towns that have long since lost their=20 schools, their banks and all hope of a future still keep their little=20 libraries going. Volunteers open them for a few hours a week, waiting=20 for readers to come down deserted Main Streets. Nearly 30% of the nation's libraries serve communities of fewer than=20= 2,500 people, including almost 3,000 libraries in towns where the=20 population is measured in the hundreds. Because they run on volunteer labor, making do with the books at hand,=20= rural libraries survive even in tight times like these, when big cities=20= are shutting branches. In California, John Steinbeck's hometown of=20 Salinas (population 150,000) has announced plans to close all of its=20 libraries by April to save money. But it's still possible to check out=20= a book in Gaylord, Kan. (population 97), and Strang, Neb. (population=20 38). In Monowi, Elsie keeps the key to the library hanging in the tavern.=20= She's there 12 or 14 hours a day, frying up egg sandwiches for the=20 farmers and hunters and construction workers who stop by for lunch at=20 any random hour they're free. "Go on up and take a look," she'll urge. Rudy's Library is less than 350 square feet. The books are worn,=20 disorganized and eclectic beyond description. It's impossible not to linger. Here's "Ivanhoe," by Sir Walter Scott, next to "Jaws 2." Mark Twain's=20= collected works sit side by side with "Dancer of Dreams" by Patricia=20 Matthews, touted on the cover as "America's First Lady of Love."=20 (That's one of the few Rudy likely never opened.) "How to Get Filthy Rich, Even If You're Flat Broke" recommends reading=20= obituaries so you can assume a dead man's identity to throw creditors=20 off the hunt. "Adventures in Science with Doris and Billy" =97 circa = 1945=20 =97 advises: "If you could fly in an airplane to the moon, you might=20 reach it in about 100 days." Copies of Reader's Digest date back to 1950; National Geographic, to=20= 1953. A local newspaper from 1941 bears the front-page news that Rose=20 Karel's tonsillectomy went well. The library runs on the honor system: Take what you want, return it=20 when you can. "You just have to look around till you find something you want to=20 read," Elsie says. "You'll probably run across something you're not=20 thinking of." Seven-year-old Shelby Micanek comes by after school one frosty=20 afternoon, drawn to the children's corner. She has two books at home,=20 she says proudly, both Dick and Jane, one with a yellow cover, one with=20= a blue. In Rudy's Library, she's looking for a book about animals. Shelby pulls out a textbook about mammals, flips through it eagerly,=20= then frowns. Too many words. She wanders down the shelf, picking out=20 books at random. "Look at this big one!" she calls out, wonder in her=20 tone. "This would take a long time to read!" She's holding Webster's=20 Unabridged Dictionary. Over in the corner, first-grader Cade Kalkowski is staring at a=20 National Geographic photo of a banana slug, entranced. Then he spots a=20= hardcover book and drops the banana slug with a shriek. "Killer sharks!=20= I want this one!" Cade runs back to the tavern to show his dad. Shelby=20= follows, clutching "Zoo Babies." Rudy collected these books over a lifetime in love with the printed=20 word. "He always said he never read any book but he didn't learn from it,"=20= Elsie says. Though he had more books than he could finish, Rudy prowled estate=20 sales and thrift shops, always looking for more. When a community four=20= towns over closed its school, he bought out the whole library =97 two=20 pickup loads of outdated textbooks and teen novels. As Elsie puts it:=20 "He was forever buying something for a little bit of nothing." The subject didn't matter to him, as long as it wasn't straight=20 romance. In his last year, he spent hours reading a seed catalog, cover=20= to cover. "Out here in the sticks, we don't have a lot of things to do,"=20 explains Barb Weeder, a friend. "So if you find something you like to do, you do a lot of it," Elsie=20= adds. Tavern patrons got used to seeing Rudy's books piled every which way,=20= under the 50-cent bags of chips or on top of the bar, or over by the=20 collection of beer steins painted with Clydesdale horses. Elsie reads=20 too. She loves historical novels. But in 49? years of marriage, she=20 never could catch up to Rudy. He always had two or three books going at once, and if he really liked=20= one, he'd put it on his list to re-read through the long, still nights=20= of a prairie winter. "He always said you were never locked in one place when you read=20 books. You could be under the ocean or exploring space or shooting=20 cowboys and Indians in the desert," says the Eilers' daughter, Rene=20 Lassise, who was named after a character in one of Rudy's beloved=20 westerns. Rudy did most of his exploring through books. He spent three years in=20= France with the Air Force after high school. Then he and Elsie lived in=20= Omaha for six months while he finished up his military obligation. But=20= as soon as they could, the Eilers moved back to Monowi, where they had=20= met in the one-room schoolhouse on the hill when he was in fourth grade=20= and she was in third. This is rugged territory, a good three-hour drive from Omaha. The=20 folding hills are good for pasture or for growing alfalfa, and not much=20= else. Even at its peak in the 1930s, Monowi had fewer than 150=20 residents and measured perhaps three blocks by four blocks. When Elsie=20= and Rudy bought the tavern in 1971, the population was down to 22. But community is broadly defined out here. It's nothing to drive a half-hour or more to drop in on a neighbor.=20 The local FM station keeps everyone up to date on the gossip from two=20 counties: "That big 5-0 birthday bash was well attended, and Mike was=20 definitely surprised=85. " And so, even as Monowi withered, even as their two children grew up=20 and moved away, Rudy and Elsie never felt alone. Monowi remains an incorporated town because there's no reason to=20 dissolve it. Elsie grants herself her own liquor license, collects=20 taxes from herself =97 "it's a matter of cents, really" =97 and keeps = the=20 books. Every year, Elsie has to approve a municipal road plan to receive=20 Monowi's share of state transportation funds, which she sends to the=20 county to maintain the two-lane highway that runs past her tavern. A Notice of Public Hearing is duly posted in the tavern, announcing an=20= upcoming meeting on the road plan for all citizens of Monowi to voice=20 "support, opposition and/or suggestions." The meeting is to be held "at=20= the usual place." Elsie figures it won't last long. When the state sends her paperwork, "I just sign wherever it needs to=20= be signed: mayor, secretary, treasurer," Elsie says. "They know I'm the=20= only one up here." On busy days, a few dozen customers will stop by the tavern for a beer=20= or a T-bone steak or a $3 platter of gizzards. Now and then, a reader=20 will come in. Beth Davy drove 12 miles from her home along the Missouri River bluffs=20= with her daughter and her grandkids last summer. They spent three hours=20= rummaging through the shelves, finding treasures. The other day Davy was back, returning a novel she had borrowed and=20 plucking a new one from the shelf at random, with an air of=20 expectation. " 'Walking Through the Dark,' " she said, reading off the=20= cover. "Sounds like a mystery." She wrote her name and the title in a=20 notebook up front, to let Elsie know she was taking it home. Elsie means to put the books in order one day. But there's a part of=20= her that likes how they are now, helter-skelter. There's a proper library an hour's drive away, in O'Neill, with 28,500=20= volumes, a computerized card catalog and dozens of magazines laid out=20 alphabetically, from Air & Space to Workbench. That's the place to go if you need a book. Rudy's Library is where to=20= go if you love them. http://www.latimes.com/news/custom/showcase/la-na-library11feb11.story ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 01:18:30 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nathaniel Siegel Subject: (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I believe that there are no red or blue states. Let's not turn on each other or make another a color. Look for the view, the point of view, not the hue. Simplicity breeds contempt. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 22:31:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: The Internet in China MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit An excerpt from Perry Link's fascinating review of He Qunglian's book 'How the Chinese Government Controls the Media'. The below is reproduced without permission but with respect. It appeared in the February 24, 2005 issue of The New York Review of Books (pages 38-39) -- http://nybooks.com ja http://vispo.com ************************** The Internet, which has grown explosively in China, has become the biggest obstacle to the government's control of information. In 1997 the country had about 620,000 Internet users; today there are about 80 million, whether they use home computiers or frequent the "Internet cafés" on the streets. E-mail--flexible, fast, and unorganized--is the most frustrating medium the Party has ever confronted. But if the problem has been large for Chinese officials, so are their efforts to control it. In 1996 the government started issuing proclamations forbidding the use of the Internet to circulate information objectionable to the regime, but it soon realized that this was futile. He Qinglian describes how, beginning in 1998, the Ministry of State Security recruited a great many young university graduates with high-tech skills to monitor and control the Internet. Today there are thousands of them surfing the Web in search of anti-Party opinions. Anmesty International has estimated that there are some 30,000 but no one outside the system knows for sure. When they find something they want to suppress they have a number of choices. If the offending Web site is foreign, they can block it, either temporarily or permanently, and sometimes can edit it electronically. If the Web site is domestic, they can issue a warning or they can close it down, a practice more common during "sevsitive periods" like the run-up to a Party congress or to an anniversary of the 1989 Tiananmen massacre. In early 2003, during the SARS cover-up, forty-two of Google's one hundred most frequently visited sites were blocked in China. If electronic methods fail, the police can be sent to deal with the offending blogger. Then the sanctions become essentially the same as for work in print: "rectifications," fines, confiscation of money and equipment, closings, and in extreme cases, arrests. Of sixty-nine people throughout the world listed by Reporters Without Borders as in jail for using the Internet, sixty one are in China, where most of them have been charged with "subversion" and given sentences ranging from two to twelve years. Four Internet offenders, all from Falun Gong, have died in prison. And yet even these measures have not been enough to control the Web. Electronic cat-and-mouse games continue between bloggers and the regime. In recent months the government has added psychological weapons to its offense in an effort to induce Web users to srart policing one another and, by generating fear, to make people censor themselves. In Auguest 2002 new regulations required that Web publishers in China have organizations, bylaws, and an editorial system in which they assign a "responsible editor" to supervise each article they publish. In form these rules only bring Web publishers into line with print and other publishers. But the real intent was to ban personal Web sites. Now at least two people, and usually more, must be collectively accountable for what any one of them does on the Internet, and hence each has an incentive to watch the others and prevent their mistakes. Similar techniques of enforcing collective responsibility have ancient roots in China, and were much used during the Mao years. Moreover, Web sites are being held responsible not only for their own postings but those of all chat room visitors; managers are therefore obliged to stand in for the government, monitoring and censoring what gets posted. Managers of Internet cafés can be punished if any of their customers sends or receives illicit messages. During the "sensitive periods," cafés and Web sites thus ask their visitors to be careful, to "please cooperate," and so on. He Qinglian points out that this system tends to encourage a perverse assumption in the minds of all concerned, namely, that if someone does "make a mistake" and precipitate a shutdown, the calamity is the fault of that person, not the government. In early 2004 the government set up a new chinese Center for Informing on Illegal and Harmful Information, which hugely expanded the possibilities for anyone, anywhere, to report bad thinking to the Chinese police by sending an email to jubao@china.org.cn ( net.china.cn/chinese/index.htm ). "Jubao" means "informing". If you want to attack your enemies, however, it is illegal to do so anonymously. Another recent rule for the Chinese Web says that surfers must use their real names, a requirement that naturally strengthens the Web user's "self-discipline". In March 2003 the government asked Internet service providers in China to sign on voluntarily to a "Public Pledge of Self-Discipline for the China Internet Industry". About three hundred providers, Yahoo among them, did so. In her conclusion He Qinglian touches on the most sensitive question of all when she analyzes the term "state security," which is used by the regime to justify its efforts to block news from reaching the public. The regime also claims that popular elections above the village level will not work because the suzhi (quality, character) of the people is too low. The masses are ignorant, and would be too easily swayed by passion or bias. Therefore, they coninue, we, the masters of the regime, have to be in control. The logic is not only humiliating to the Chinese people but oddly circular: we must, the regime says, run things in our own repressive way because the people are ignorant, and the people are ignorant in large part because we keep them from being informed. The result is described as "stability". But the lesson of He Qinglian's book is that it is the security of the dictatorial system itself that is at stake. *************************** Concerning He Qinglian's work, see http://www.google.com/search?q=He+Qinglian ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 23:34:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: the wigs of logico locos MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT What are the politricks of words, kid A cardboard on sidewalks cut up By windmills for 360’s By boys beaten by breaks Note to the baggy letters Wrote to go Ké Songs about things you cyan see -rebellology w/mi cora aniki walkinin paths that are pitch black like the wigs of logico locos I see Joey wouldn't drive a harley Sink low into hot water depth perception 2 dimension a stall = laggin then quick crack a spine privacy my invasion massive contusions -when I die I holla More watts Out of my throat My kids life sent in packages Noteless Choose the heads to tell It in rhymes of unsolid Visions Twistin the body flop Elegant transition/from whirl To 90 degrees to backs in turtle shell formation Woht drops stumble Down faces Marks taken to bridges/ Killers dirt nap riddims Over fluid bottoms Assassins with holes in they chest Shruggin off jinns Whose holes, what are worlds deep, Widen Hurry the Transformation From a Plea to x’s on backs and cheeks Resistence also. 1sees 1 chain made Cuban Conjunctions Link Ludwig to Move Meant to be tied to this place a stall = laggin then quick Pulling kicks down to matts In gyms they fight the dæmons Sent to Resevation & barrios Who embrace them (me) Sonics Massive A kin to hercs in ghettos (they read my note books too.) 1for1 And figure the stooge From distances Like goldfish Trapped in loops (how do u rate this?) (dig the rep points) …a characteristic throw down/come change up… a hustle runs from chambers to johnson to yates from cyan see in the morning to til cyan see in the late wohts writtin on walls will correct the symbols found in your skullz it’s reversal of thesis a rhythmic tractus trippin on 2.171 to .19 to goose steps translated and loss in the bloody wells ameri/euro/afrique 7 passing in silence watchin the high rollers deal graphics collectives/club houses soundtracks of ian dury gon a spastic it's like this fleets form the click a cholo throwin sets in broken calo, asian & arabic this is my vicinity the square held nervous the locos braves and fellows tripped to the word form logic 1426 Lawrence Y Braithwaite (aka Lord Patch) New Palestine/Fernwood/The Hood Victoria, BC ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 04:17:46 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit . .. .. ... ... .... .... ..... a aa aa aaa aaa aaaa aaaa aaaaa Dawn....a...aaa....a... Drn... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 05:55:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek White Subject: SleepingFish wants your Meme Expressions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 8888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888 The submission period for the next issue of SleepingFish 0.75 is now open. The motivating theme is meme expression... is "a meme a meme a meme" a meme? You tell me. Full guidelines at: http://www.sleepingfish.net/submit.htm Also, to whet the appetite, my 5¢ense on Norman Lock's fantastic "A History of the Imagination": http://sleepingfish.net/5cense/norman_lock_history.htm Looking forward to your memes, Derek White www.calamaripress.com www.sleepingfish.net www.5cense.com 8888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 08:44:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Announcement: The English Lesson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The English Lesson by Halvard Johnson in a limited edition of signed, numbered copies is now available from Unicorn Press, Inc. 201 North Coulter Drive Bryan, Texas 77803 The price is $12.95 US (including shipping). "The English Lesson" would be an anthropologist's delight and a reader's feast even without Halvard Johnson's remarkable ear. But its music, the composer's attention both global and local, charges the poem with a story more visceral than its found source can account for: I am very glad It gives me pleasure It give me great joy. --Wendy Battin ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 09:23:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Our President Answers the Question: Duh!!! In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Considering the praise John Cage has received on this List, I'm surprised that some are so short-sighted as to insult our beloved and inspiring leader in his most innovative moments. Cleary, this statement transcends its surface appearance of incoherence. Bush, in point of fact, is furthering Cage's work by creating constructs that can only be described as "spontaneous linguistic indeterminacy." Vernon Frazer http://vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of alexander saliby Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 10:50 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Our President Answers the Question: Duh!!! I know you will all want to calculate the impact of the social security changes on you and your families based on this "lucid" analysis spoken by our president as he attempted to answer a question from a woman in his audience. Subject: The NEW Social Security WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: I don't really understand. How is it the new [Social Security] plan is going to fix that problem? GEORGE W. BUSH: "Because the -- all which is on the table begins to address the big cost drivers. For example, how benefits are calculated, for example, is on the table. Whether or not benefits rise based upon wage increases or price increases. There's a series of parts of the formula that are being considered. And when you couple that, those different cost drivers, affecting those -- changing those with personal accounts, the idea is to get what has been promised more likely to be -- or closer delivered to what has been promised. Does that make any sense to you? It's kind of muddled. Look, there's a series of things that cause the -- like, for example, benefits are calculated based upon the increase of wages, as opposed to the increase of prices. Some have suggested that we calculate -- the benefits will rise based upon inflation, as opposed to wage increases. There is a reform that would help solve the red if that were put into effect. In other words, how fast benefits grow, how fast the promised benefits grow, if those -- if that growth is affected, it will help on the red." -- Dubya explains the virtues of his Social Security plan, Tampa, Florida, Feb. 4, 2005 Now, is this pure poetic use of the language or what? Alex ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 08:33:52 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Our President Answers the Question: Duh!!! In-Reply-To: <20050215142309.KQAI1983.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@DBY2CM31> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now if only he would honor us with 4 minutes & 33 seconds of silence. On Feb 15, 2005, at 8:23 AM, Vernon Frazer wrote: > Considering the praise John Cage has received on this List, I'm > surprised > that some are so short-sighted as to insult our beloved and inspiring > leader > in his most innovative moments. Cleary, this statement transcends its > surface appearance of incoherence. Bush, in point of fact, is > furthering > Cage's work by creating constructs that can only be described as > "spontaneous linguistic indeterminacy." > > Vernon Frazer > http://vernonfrazer.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 09:43:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: Our President Answers the Question: Duh!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 "spontaneous linguistic indeterminacy" is what his car is running on, and t= his guy's huffing the backwash, aka, carbon auraloxide. www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:45:14 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: The Blacklisted Journalist In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DEAR FRIENDS AND READERS, This is to let you know that the new issue of THE BLACKLISTED=20 JOURNALIST, COLUMN 114, dated February 1, 2005 is now on the web. To=20 take a look, click on http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj =20 SECTION ONE:=20 http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column114.html GREEN HAVEN=20 CORRECTIONAL INSTITUTION, 4TH FLOOR. In this first chapter of Alex=20 Zola's new novel, Perfect Accidents, the protagonist, a newspaper=20 reporter, witnesses a botched execution. Alex himself has written on a=20 similar subject in his piece, EXECUTION STORY, in COLUMN 49 at=20 http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column49e.html=20 SECTION TWO:=20 http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column114a.html BOOK REVIEW:=20 GUANT=C1NAMO: WHAT THE WORLD SHOULD KNOW by Michael Ratner and Ellen Ray=20 Chelsea Green Publishing Company 184 Pages. Jules Siegel tells us the=20 book confirms instances of torture of detainees by American captors. SECTION THREE: EMAIL PAGE ONE: http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column114b1.html LUCIEN CARR, 79,=20 A BEAT GENERATION ORIGINAL, IS DEAD. An e from Jim Walck gives us the=20 Reuters obit. Yeah, I knew Lucien. SECTION THREE: EMAIL PAGE TWO: http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column114b2.html RAMBLIN' JACK=20 VISITS AUSTRALIA. An e from Stan Jarin asks us to imagine his surprise=20 when his lifelong hero comes to stay at his house in Melbourne for a=20 month. CHERYL LIKES MY BOBBY DARIN BOOK. She sends an e telling how=20 much she appreciated reading BOBBY DARIN WAS A FRIEND OF MINE. JODY=20 SAYS MY 'BOB DYLAN AND THE BEATLES' IS A GREAT READ headlines an e=20 from JodyDenberg. Tell your friends about the book. It ought to be a=20 best-seller. SECTION THREE: EMAIL PAGE THREE: http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column114b3.html THAILAND'S=20 EPIDEMIC OF SEVERED PENISES. An e from Khun Wayne, who spends a lot of=20 time in that country, tells us that reattaching severed penises has=20 become a big medical industry in Thailand.=20 SECTION FOUR: THE LITERARY LINKS SECTION: Links to THE ALLEN GINSBERG=20 ORGANIZATION, THE RITA DOVE website, THE PETER COYOTE website; THE=20 MCCLURE-MANZAREK website; the AMERICAN LEGENDS website; Anny=20 Ballardini's POETS CORNER and we now add altweeklies.com, which is a=20 comprehensive compilation of stories from various alternative=20 newspapers from around the country! SECTION FIVE: THE MOVIE SECTION: THE RITZ FILMBILL. Synopses of=20 foreign, independent and Hollywood movies. SECTION SIX: THE MUSIC SECTION, features the usual links to=20 SONGSCENTRAL, PURR, POWER OF POP, all contemporary music e-zines; THE=20 CELEBRITY CAF=C9, all about celebrities; the BABUKISHAN DAS BAUL=20 website; and EAR CANDY. SECTION SEVEN: THE ADVERTISING SECTION, offers 13 pages of ads from=20 Earwraps; Cleveland International Records; Richard X. Heyman;=20 Christopher Pick; J. Crow's Milled Cider; An Advertisement for Myself;=20 Tommy Womack, Compliments of a Friend; Zoe Artemis invites you to=20 literary retreat in Greece; Richard Dettrey, who will help you with=20 your shopping; BABY ON THE WATER by Tsaurah Litzky; BOB DYLAN AND THE=20 BEATLES; and Arrogant Prick T-shirts.=20 Would you, too, like to help keep THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST on the=20 Internet? For a nominal contribution, you can have your own=20 advertising page in the Advertising Section of THE BLACKLISTED=20 JOURNALIST. Simply send us an email to find out about particulars. There are links to friendly sites and we also feature MARK PUCCI'S=20 ONLINE REVIEWS, originally edited by John Williams. Hope you read and enjoy.=20 Best, Al Aronowitz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 09:47:52 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Osama Bin Laden And Taliban: Amnesty For U.S. Officials Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Taliban Says U.S. Ready for Reconciliation: Osama Bin Laden And Taliban To Grant Amnesty To U.S. Officials, Waive War Crimes Tribunal: Inability To Control Any Real Estate Other Than The Narrow Graveyard Around Karzai's Palace In Kabul Prompted Latest U.S. Capitulation: Bin Laden Set To Address Congress In March. By SNUFFY GRAM Cheney: "No New Iraqi Government Without Allawi Or Another Thug We Like.": Despite Poor Showing In Elections CIA Asset's Bloc To Play Important Role In Any Iraqi Coalition: "I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go theocratic because of the irresponsibility of its own people," Warns Rumsfeld.: "Look. It's Their First Time Getting Fucked American Electoral Doggy Style," Says Negroponte.: Rumsfeld Twice Offered To Resign Because He Thought Cheney Was Going To Make Him Stop Torturing People. "Where the fuck did Rummy get that impression?" Cheney Scratches. By CROSS TOMBMASON They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 10:19:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan C Golding Subject: Two new publications Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I wanted to let everyone know about the first two publications in the critical series that I co-edit with Lynn Keller and Dee Morris for the U. of Wisconsin Press. Clicking on the URLs should get you straight to the appropriate page on the UW website, and to ordering information. (Unsurprising tip: they're cheaper through Amazon.) Paracritical Hinge Essays, Talks, Notes, Interviews Nathaniel Mackey 312 pp. 6 x 9 2 illustrations ISBN 0-299-20400-6 Cloth $65.00 s ISBN 0-299-20404-9 Paper $24.95 s http://www.wisc.edu/wisconsinpress/books/2600.htm Jorie Graham Essays on the Poetry Edited by Thomas Gardner 328 pp. 6 x 9 ISBN 0-299-20320-4 Cloth $65.00 s ISBN 0-299-20324-7 Paper $24.95 s http://www.wisc.edu/wisconsinpress/books/3590.htm Alan Golding ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 10:45:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Our President Answers the Question: Duh!!! In-Reply-To: <7d9d257bd96621dc553fee8dcb08cff5@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit { Now if only he would honor us with 4 minutes & 33 seconds of silence. And, in response, we could all chant "4 more minutes! 4 more minutes! 4 more minutes!" Hal "Quis ipsos custodes custodiet?" --Juvenal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 07:50:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: INFO: new york city--back to the future MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>INFO: new york city--back to the future ===================================== Back to the Future: Clive Davis Department of Recorded Music at NYU Revisits Landmark Hip Hop Album Rapper Chuck D and members of Public Enemy join film director Brett Ratner and a host of critics, producers, engineers and executives for seminar exploring The Making of Public Enemy's "It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back" On Friday, February 25 and Saturday, February 26 a two-day seminar at New York University (NYU) will examine the making of what music critics and hip hop aficionados widely regard as one of hip hop's seminal albums, Public Enemy's It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back. The 1988 Def Jam recording was a critical and commercial success, spinning off the controversial singles "Don't Believe the Hype" and "Bring The Noise." The album made stars of MCs Chuck D and Flava Flav and ushered in an era of political rap often referred to as the "golden age" of the genre. The seminar, sponsored by NYU's Clive Davis Department of Recorded Music, will feature a documentary film of Public Enemy's 1988 and 2002 tours of Great Britain as well as panel discussions on the making of the album and the political climate that inspired the artists. All events will be held at NYU's Tischman Auditorium (40 Washington Square South between McDougal and Sullivan) and are free and open to the public. "Nation of Millions was one of the most important albums of its time. The lyrics were hard-hitting and confrontational and the music was visionary. It captures an era in which a certain type of politics was possible," says Jason King, organizer of the event and associate chair of the Clive Davis Department of Recorded Music. "This seminar will be the first time that many of the players -- the producers, engineers, the artists -- have been together since 1988. We'll explore their memories of the making of the music and find out what's happened to them. They've all gone on to big things." On Friday, February 25, the seminar gets underway at 6:00 p.m. with the film screening, "Public Enemy: London Calling." The documentary film, directed by Lathan Hodge, is a work-in-progress that follows Public Enemy's British tour and features never-before-seen footage of the group's performances. That same evening, beginning at 7:45, a panel of top journalists and critics who covered the era will discuss the music legacy of Public Enemy and It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back. Participants include Robert Christgau, Nelson George, Vivien Goldman, John Leland, Alan Light and Jon Caramanica. On Saturday, February 26 at noon, the first panel of the day will feature members of the Def Jam and Rush Arts teams -- the creative staff behind the album's A&R, publicity, management and marketing. Participants include film director Brett Ratner (Rush Hour) -- who got his start directing Public Enemy's first video, "Louder Than a Bomb" -- as well as Bill Adler, Lisa Cortes, Charlotte Hunter, Biff Warren, Kelly Haley and others. The day continues with "On Hip Hop and Political Activism: A Conversation with photographer Glen E. Friedman and author and activist Jeff Chang" (1:45 p.m.). Friedman, the author of Fuck You Heroes and The Idealist, photographed and designed the album's cover. Chang is the author of the new book Can't Stop Won't Stop: The History of the Hip Hop Generation. At 3:30 p.m., the panel "Producing The Album" will bring together the album's original engineers, the owners of the Greene Street studio (where the album was cut) and members of the Bomb Squad production team for the first time since 1988. Participants include Rod Hui, Steve Loeb, Nick Sansano, Chris Shaw, Hank Shocklee, Keith Shocklee and Chairman Mao. The seminar's final panel, "Revolutionary Voices" (6:00-8:00 p.m.), features the members of Public Enemy. Public Enemy frontman Chuck D joins surprise guests in a reflection on their experiences in the making of the legendary album. "Whether you're nostalgic for political music or old school hip hop, or whether you just want a behind-the-scenes look at how great records are produced, this is a terrific opportunity," says King. "The Making of Public Enemy's It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back" is a presentation of NYU's Tisch School of the Arts in association with African Heritage Month, Shocklee Entertainment and Scratch Magazine (a leading magazine for hip hop DJs and producers). All events are held at Tischman Auditorium on the NYU campus (40 Washington Square South, between McDougal and Sullivan), and are free and open to the public. Picture ID will be required to enter the building. For more information please contact 212-992-8405. The Clive Davis Department of Recorded Music officially opened its doors in September 2003. It is the first program of its kind to offer artistic training to aspiring record producers and music executives toward a BFA (Bachelor of Fine Arts) degree in Recorded Music. Students not only learn to produce records in a state-of-the art recording facility, they also study the business and craft of music production (A&R, songwriting, music publishing, radio, film and new media) as well as the history and culture of popular music. The program bears the name of its patron and chief advisor to the program, Clive Davis. Mr. Davis explains his rationale for funding this program as such: "I've felt for many years that serious, career-minded students of recorded music should have their own school, just as film aspirants have had and benefited from for decades." The Clive Davis Department of Recorded Music is also the first to offer concentrated courses in R&B and hip hop production (as well as rock and pop) toward a BFA degree. The Department of Recorded Music is part of the Tisch School of the Arts, one of the nation's leading centers of undergraduate and graduate study in the performing and media arts. The school's alumni consist of many of the country's leading film directors, Broadway producers and writers, as well as theater historians and critics. ### Gwendolyn Quinn GQ Media & Public Relations, Inc. 1650 Broadway Suite 1011 New York, New York 10019 212-765-7910 (office) 212-765-7905 (fax) -- Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 11:41:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: konrad Subject: SF Event - Seen Missing: 2 New Films by Abigail Child Comments: To: Experimental Film Discussion List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed {please pass this on to any Bay Area interestees or poetry or film announcement-lists -- thanks!} Sunday February 20th, 2005 7:30 PM Timken Hall, California College of the Arts 1111 Eighth Street, near Wisconsin & 16th San Francisco SF Cinematheque presents Seen Missing: Two Premieres Abigail Child In Person New York poet, essayist and filmmaker Abigail Child documents how filmmakers' illuminate how our personal movies narrate our political history. She will join us for a talk and discussion as well as to screen two of her tapes which recently premiered at the New York Film Festival. "The Future is Behind You" retells the story of two sisters buffeted by the tides of fascism, using personal 16mm archives of a German Jewish family from the 1930s accompanied by the music of John Zorn. "Cake and Steak" mines proud parents' home movie footage to examine the visual details of 1950s Americans training for a life in the suburbs. Child will also contextualize her aesthetic anthropology by screening Alexander Kluge's "Brutality in Stone: Eternity in Yesterday" a poetic documentary from 1961 on the architectural residue of the Third Reich, and showing D.W. Griffith's unedited camera reels in an elegant deconstruction of his invention of cinematic narrative before the First World War. sfc@sfcinematheque.org 415-552-1990 http://www.sfcinematheque.org/ Program curated by konrad steiner ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 09:09:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Francis Raven Subject: Participatory Water Request In-Reply-To: <99CB514E-7226-11D9-8F43-000D936DA2AA@slang.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I am working on a manuscript of poems about water and was hoping members of the list could help. To help, please (1) fill a cup with water (2) drink that water (3) describe the taste of the water using 2 - 8 words (4) write these words down (5) send me these words via backchannel email thanks so much, all and only my very best, Francis ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 12:58:23 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Fwd: [silence] NEW SILENCE STORIES Comments: To: Writing and Theory across Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Begin forwarded message: From: Ralph Lichtensteiger Date: February 15, 2005 12:54:24 PM CST To: Silence Subject: [silence] NEW SILENCE STORIES NEW SILENCE STORIES by Miekal And, John M. Bennett, Anne Bichon, Stephanie Boisset, Arthur Chandler, Thanos Chrysakis, Lowell Cross, A. P. Crumlish, Alvin Curran, James Drew, Karlheinz Essl, Raymond Federman, Jesse Glass, Peter Gutmann, Martin Hawes, August Highland, Justin Katko, Matthias Kaul, Richard Kostelanetz, Tamara Lai, Ian S. Macdonald, Harry Polkinhorn, Friedhelm Rathjen, Lothar Reitz, Kathleen Ruiz, Mike Silverton, Beat Streuli, Lawrence Upton, Dan Waber, Louise Waller, Sigi Waters (soon), John Whiting ... http://www.lichtensteiger.de/stories02.html kind regards, ralph lichtensteiger lichtconlon@t-online.de To join or leave the Silence mail list, please go to https://list.mail.virginia.edu/mailman/listinfo/silence. You can find searchable list archives at http://list.mail.virginia.edu/pipermail/silence/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:08:55 -0500 Reply-To: rumblek@bellsouth.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Rumble Subject: Desert City: Swensen & Vitiello: February 19th: Chapel Hill, NC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Please spread far and wide......... Who: Cole Swensen, Finalist for the 2004 National Book Award in Poetry for her book _Goest_, author of 9 other collections of poetry, translator of some of the best of contemporary French poetry, a faculty member at the Iowa Writers' Workshop, also famous for building a life-size model of Big Ben out of America Online CDs. Who: Chris Vitiello, author of _Nouns Swarm a Verb_, survivor of the Lucipo roadshow, rumored to be the head of a theatre group whose existence is itself rumored to be a rumor. What: Desert City Poetry Series, when you care to hear the very best. When: This Saturday, February 19th, 8:00pm, 2005. Where: Internationalist Books, 405 W. Franklin Street, Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Why: "I've / always / wanted / said the painter // and so he did" "Am I supposed to write that it rained? // One, two, three, four, five, six // What rained?" See you there....... Next Month Two Readings: March 19th: Tara Rebele & Brian Henry March 26th: Kent Johnson & Patrick Herron *Internationalist Books: http://www.internationalistbooks.org *Desert City Poetry Series: http://desertcity.blogspot.com *Cole Swensen: http://www.nationalbook.org/nba2004_cswensen.htm *Chris Vitiello: http://the_delay.blogspot.com Contact the DCPS: Ken Rumble, director: rumblek at bellsouth dot net "TRILOGY" by Cole Swensen One I The guard peers closely at the painting. Count. The fingers. The figures. The strange sweep from waist to chest to head. His hand reaches out within a second of II She sweeps upward. Up to where the gold sky might What would the touch if it did not first run up against a man who is in the end a man III She touched the painting as soon as the guard turned his back. Respond. I said turn around. I screamed, I drowned, I thought you were home. I touched the surface of the canvas. It was I, the sound of salt. And fell and is still falling through a silent earth. Two I A deep red in the sky that has nothing to do with the season but quiets Outside drinking coffee and wine and watching. Look, he's speaking, leaning over to his neighbor. Look how the lines around his eyes and mouth. Fleet. Part. What of that. Replies. II She crosses the square in a bright red coat. Look how they look at her, look up from their talking. There is no thought here of leaving. There is no thought. There are people crossing the square arm in arm, in threes and fours and alone in great numbers. III Joseph Albers, THE INTERACTION OF COLOR, 1975. I've heard that no one is ever repeated or ever precisely named. She took the coat off the peg. Even to herself, she said it was her own. She crosses the square on her way home. She will not stop at a cafe, she will not talk, she will just go home. Three I The minute progressions between grey and black becoming one against the red that stares back. Because she knows they are watching, she will not turn around. Home is a sound repeated to solid, to something that will hold. Look, there goes a man with his left hand left lightly on the head of his child. There they go. II In the painting, all the reaching hands are growing. In the gallery, everything was green and gold and red Made the sun, though deep, cut through: Within the door was a window; within the window, a jar. Inside the jar, carefully there, the love need not be assigned in order to fix and ignite. III She had to cross the square in order to get home. She was one. And one by one, they looked up and watched. When the guard turned around, the gesture was gone. A woman stood back and said no. She stood back, looking at the painting and said isn't it fine that a woman wearing red could arrive at a gold sky. Remind. Or else in falling. And nothing broke. The rift shifts open the devout. A finger that exceeded number, a fingertip. from _Irresponsibility_ by Chris Vitiello Late November into early December 2004 Shenandoah, VA Harrisonburg, VA Springfield, VA Washington, DC Durham, NC Grackles bathe where the drainage terminates // Typical pull // Pulling so into // Between the low Winter Sun and me Before the low Winter Sun, their splashes illuminate He leaf-blows in church clothes There really are grackles Grackles splash a fray in the drain divot pool behind which the Sun sets // Position makes this appearance // Giving up is never correct The whitespace goes negative // Choice of negation Event-specific sets of by what The oak leaves appear brassy Undoing aperçu The grate has sunken askew // Here’s why // Gerunds are now That school addition is unornamented and, in backlit shadow, flat Shuttle Iris and Gracie console imaginary horses A storm threatens // They argue beneath a lopsided oak Win it word by word is problematic Carriage returns Cadiot: I will do something to someone The school building rear looks like a factory contains also is a factory // Is Not an implication but a container His behavior appears portioned and metaphorical to me as if he thinks he is being read A container contained by what it contains What’s in Firdos Square now? Argument is the game It Grackles bathe and drink in a drainage pool Winter Sun setting linear behind These 2 things, but 1 thing Making an argument is a surface Exploitation instructs This coat does nothing I know that the dogwood is completely red though I cannot see it from here Arafat’s dead // So’s Michelle “What’s different now?” versus “Can it be unwritten?” Only the parts of his body move that he needs to // He does 1 thing Miles Davis: “Paraphernalia” The grackles, the water, their splashing, the sunlight through the splashing I’m in the plenum too Iris and Gracie try the swings again is experience-determined duration This book is set in 12-point type I wonder if I’m still alive The container, the surface, the contents, the whitespace, the characteristics, the durations attached to these Hocquard: Does writing allow someone to see better? And the words, obviously Pursuit is pushing and we have those 2 words // Little gravelly hill is one way of saying little gravelly hill Thank you Hocquard Once demarcated, how different should/could the items be? He makes shit and carbon-dioxide The saturated soil sank so unintentional berm (As I write this) Iris tells Theresa to say “No, no it isn’t” // Theresa says it Geometric equipment and what isn’t? Cobra is a system not a composition Albiach: would their word be transmitted That lopsided oak likely lost its crown in ice storms Vicki and I married and Rabin was assassinated Iris guesses pronunciation at vowels A signal is a sub-signal < This with this or this without this Returning to the grackles is different from returning to Firdos Square // One symmetry displaces another Royet-Journoud: eye pursues its prey / shelters behind another phrase The Fallujah offensive is replay and slow-motion at here // Bettis’s subtlety Is it information or does it contain information? Evie’s rectangle The coverage of the taxi explosion shows the exploded taxi Until she gets it right Nothing elapses at now Vicki calls from earlier in time The cartoons did their jobs and were declared heroes The magical rain brings the tree to life Neither vacuum nor plenum is a negation I’m getting tough // Poetry is invisible The red dogwood leaves hang directly at the ground in angled clusters around the base of the nude depleted buds The Periodic Table lapses into abominations One name is as good as another Amber’s detachment Minimal and essential, snakes The projector completely blocks the light source between each frame Nothing’s haphazard and I don’t expect the dots to be connected // Iris says “The pinks almost rhyme” Snakes do not elaborate Sunset is a lie By naming the suspension of judgment you are missing the point There were no single grackles // The understood it Grackles is singular Each dogwood leaf is mottled with blacks, browns, and reds // Veins are yellowish implies the green they were in Spring White, dried blotch perimeters Lack of end-punctuation is a characteristic // Characteristic has of I agree they’re red They were probably starlings It turns out The noun is a process I can see three flags from here Her remote control trees all on the same frequency Devendra Banhart: “Nice People…” One thing is not any thing Vicki moved and everything moved // Vicki moved everything ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 05:05:20 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: [job] Instructor - Creative Writing / Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Location: Philadelphia Contact: mailto:cflores@sas.upenn.edu or 215.823.5288 Compensation: $20/hr (Part-time) The Penn Alexander Community School (http://www.upenn.edu/ccp/pascs/) is seeking weekly instructors who are available Monday through Thursday between 6:00 and 8:00 PM (e.g. Mondays 7:00 PM or Wednesdays 6:30 PM). We will consider proposals for the same class to meet twice per week (e.g. Mondays and Wednesdays, 6:00 PM). We are looking to start with a six-week session beginning Monday, February 28 and ending Thursday, March 17, 2005. We are willing to extend the number of weeks based on demand. The Penn Alexander Community School offers an hourly rate of $20 to all instructors. The entrance to the school is located on the corner of 43rd and Locust Streets (across from CVS). To become an instructor, contact Clara Flores at your earliest convenience at (215) 823-5288 or via email at cflores@sas.upenn.edu. Instructors are needed for creative writing or poetry writing for adults. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:14:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Clements Subject: Fire Destroys Slam Planet Edit Suite MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear POETICS list, I'm forwarding this unfortunate news from Mike Henry, co-director of Slam Planet, a documentary-in-progress. I'll be making a donation to help them recover some of their material, and I hope you will consider doing the same. Brian Clements Hey everyone, Hope this finds you well. As most of you know, for the last year and a half, I've been serving as Co-Director for Slam Planet: War of the Words, a feature-length documentary about poetry slam. Two weeks ago, a huge fire destroyed our edit suite. The losses were devastating and we're looking at a long, difficult road to rebuild our operation and pay specialists to recover media on our hard drives and tapes which suffered extensive heat, smoke, and water damage. I'm sure I don't need to tell you how deeply I believe in Slam Planet, and the work of the poets in our film. I'm more dedicated than ever to making a great movie, but I need your help to shoulder this enormous financial burden. Anything you can give will mean the world to me and to the poets in our film. Don't think that your few dollars won't make a difference. It will. And most of all, please forward this message to anyone who you think might be interested. If you have any questions at all, please feel free to contact me at mike@slamchannel.com. If you'd like to help: 1. Donations are being accepted via PayPal. 2. If you're new to PayPal, it's very easy. Only takes a few minutes. 3. The email address for our account is slamplanetfund@yahoo.com Or, if you'd like to send a check, the address is: Slam Planet Support Fund c/o Slam Channel 500 San Marcos, Suite 102 Austin, TX 78702 With my thanks and love, mike henry Co-Director / Slam Planet, and Slammaster, Austin TX ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 18:38:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Change in Plans: Sharon Mesmer Reading Tomorrow Night Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Dear everyone, David Meltzer is not able to make the trip to New York to read tomorrow night, alas, and we will miss him..... However, Sharon Mesmer has graciously come to our rescue, and will be reading with Bruce Andrews. Should be a great night, and we=B9d love to see you. XO=20 Poproj Wednesday, February 16, 8:00 pm Bruce Andrews & Sharon Mesmer Bruce Andrews is the author of over two dozen books of poetry and performance scores, most recently Lip Service and The Millennium Project (online at www.princeton.edu/eclipse). His essays on poetics are collected in Paradise & Method and are also online at the Electronic Poetry Center. H= e is Music Director for Sally Silvers & Dancers, and teaches Politics at Fordham University. Sharon Mesmer has two short fiction collections forthcoming this year: In Ordinary Time, from Hanging Loose Press, and Ma Vie A Yonago, from Hachette Litteratures, France, in French translation. He= r two previous collections are Half Angel, Half Lunch (poems, Hard Press) and The Empty Quarter (stories, Hanging Loose Press). She writes a seasonal column for the French magazine Purple, and teaches graduate and undergraduate fiction and literature courses at the New School. In 1999, sh= e was the recipient of a New York Foundation for the Arts fellowship in poetry. =20 The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:33:16 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brenda Coultas Subject: Gizzi, Wasserman, Champion, Feb 18, 7pm, NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear poets and friends, This is just a friendly reminder that CUE will be hosting a reading by Michael Gizzi, Jo Ann Wasserman and Miles Champion this coming Friday, February 18th, from 7-9pm at CUE. Please RSVP by either replying to this email, or calling us at the number below to reserve a seat for the event. A flyer with details is attached to this email. We look forward to seeing you all here. kind regards, Sandhini Sandhini Poddar Gallery Co-ordinator CUE Art Foundation 511 West 25 Street New York, NY 10001 Tel: 212 206-3583 Fax: 212 206-0321 www.cueartfoundation.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:48:50 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: Two new publications Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original The book "the Para Critical Hinge" by nathaniel Mackey looks interesting but what is "serial poetics" - similaryr to "seral music" ? and "diasporic syncretism"? "to the emancipatory potential of collaborative practices; from serial poetics to diasporic syncretism; " I suppose all would be revealed with the book itself but ..just wondering - idont need such a book (indeed - what do we need?) but it looks interesting... I boought abook on long poems by women etc by Lyn Keller (she is very astute critic and writes well) from - via ADD ALL - a steo up from my photocopying the entire book by Jerome McGann (I surrender!! I'll come quietly Ossifer!!) called The Visible Language of Modernsim which is a facinating book - its neatly in my folder - but that was a big job copying that - (Just about feel I should have been paid for doing that....) But Ive forgotten a lot of it - should have read it when I was young - things stay in one's mind then...I mean I should have been young when i read it which is impossible becaue i was.. nearly 50! So I wasnt young , therefore I was old and...well I was older than when I was young and could remember much more better.... One spin off -in reading critical works i have sometimes said - that's an interesting idea - I'll use that in my poems or a comment by a critic has inspired a poem etc - the best critical wods can be re-read a lot. I suppose this is all a bit "fatuous" or "redundant" ..oh well...thought Pooh bear..its a funny life under a little cloud that just appearified. (Poor old Pooh was always getting muddled -was a "serial" something you ate - and what were paratrooptters doing in a book? these were some of the silly ideas Pooh kept thinking of...) (I am now ~14.4 stone multiply by 6.35 to kilogrammes) Method - walk each day and exercisse during the day - also eg halve or quarter the amount of potatoes etc in my meals and eat apples and other fruit etc rather than so much toast - use water crackers instead of toast or bread or have only one bread intead of two - keep a jar of water in the fridge rather than use those "sachets (mostly sugar they are) with a bit of lemon etc (use milk instead of Yoghurt) - concentrate my mind on getting healthy and fit as an interesting project - like a game/hobby -make it a pleasant challenge and a game.... Richard Taylor Auckland - New Zealand richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet ("Well..." ) / Chess Addict (partly recovered) /Was 15 stone - working on it -/ Grandfather/ BA /NZCE/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: --------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."---------------------- ASPECT BOOKS www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan C Golding" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:19 AM Subject: Two new publications >I wanted to let everyone know about the first two publications in the > critical series that I co-edit with Lynn Keller and Dee Morris for the > U. of Wisconsin Press. Clicking on the URLs should get you straight to > the appropriate page on the UW website, and to ordering information. > (Unsurprising tip: they're cheaper through Amazon.) > > Paracritical Hinge > Essays, Talks, Notes, Interviews > Nathaniel Mackey > 312 pp. 6 x 9 2 illustrations > ISBN 0-299-20400-6 Cloth $65.00 s > ISBN 0-299-20404-9 Paper $24.95 s > http://www.wisc.edu/wisconsinpress/books/2600.htm > > Jorie Graham > Essays on the Poetry > Edited by Thomas Gardner > 328 pp. 6 x 9 > ISBN 0-299-20320-4 Cloth $65.00 s > ISBN 0-299-20324-7 Paper $24.95 s > http://www.wisc.edu/wisconsinpress/books/3590.htm > > Alan Golding > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:58:00 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: Catfish McDarris MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>he killed himself alive? Yes, Catfish is like the inverse ditty Marianne Moore invented for Raid; unless it was an imposter forging his handwriting for future fame from death. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 02:03:58 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Help NARAL kill babies Dear Friend, I hope you take a moment to fight the the Right-To-Life Movement by killing an unborn baby--yours, or perhaps a friend's--this Valentine's Day. Show the unborn who's boss this holiday season. After all, it is your convenience, your wealth and comfort that are important: not those of an unborn child who knows nothing about life yet. By keeping the population down, we increase access to the world's precious resources by people that count (the born) through a simple, nearly invisible act of slaughter. Please join NARAL in this important cause. Thank you. http://prochoiceaction.org/campaign/open_letter_salon?rk=3d_G_LS11memW *********************************** Powered by GetActive Software, Inc. Relationship Management for Member Organizations (tm) http://www.getactive.com *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 02:19:08 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Re: Help NARAL kill babies What wind doth blow... Ides of Feb... Et tu, Ronny? At least maybe they'll sign... http://prochoiceaction.org/campaign/open_letter_salon?rk=dp_G_L911memW *********************************** Powered by GetActive Software, Inc. Relationship Management for Member Organizations (tm) http://www.getactive.com *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 18:33:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Catfish McDarris In-Reply-To: <4212A830.7167511A@pavementsaw.org> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > Yes, Catfish is like the inverse ditty > Marianne Moore invented for Raid; Marianne Moore? "Raid Kills Bugs Dead" was a tagline created by Lew Welch, while, I think, he was a young "copywriter" in Chicago. Lew's thesis at Reed College in the early Fifties was on the work of Gertrude Stein. You can see here how she provided him with certain resources. In 1957 or 58 Marianne Moore created the name "Edsel" for a new model Ford. Sadly the Edsel was killed dead in the market by American consumers. "Oversexed" - that particular vertical oval cavity in the grill - was considered one of the reasons why. Once upon a gothic time I created a bumpersticker, "Bodyguards Make Better Lovers" in honor of Patty Hearst and Susan Ford, both of whom, or Patty, at least, married one of their bodyguards. Unlike Lew Welch or Marianne Moore I did not get paid much, in fact nada. But, at the time, 1976, it was kind of a comment. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:57:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Two new publications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain serial poetics not the same as serialism in music (though it comes around to that later in the persons of Enslin and Taggart) -- composition in series, see Olson, Duncan and so forth -- On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:48:50 +0000, Richard Taylor wrote: > The book "the Para Critical Hinge" by nathaniel Mackey looks interesting > but what is "serial poetics" - similaryr to "seral music" ? and "diasporic > syncretism"? > > > "to the emancipatory potential of collaborative practices; from serial > poetics to diasporic syncretism; " > > > I suppose all would be revealed with the book itself but ..just wondering - > idont need such a book (indeed - what do we need?) but it looks > interesting... > > I boought abook on long poems by women etc by Lyn Keller (she is very astute > critic and writes well) from - via ADD ALL - a steo up from my photocopying > the entire book by Jerome McGann (I surrender!! I'll come quietly Ossifer!!) > called The Visible Language of Modernsim which is a facinating book - its > neatly in my folder - but that was a big job copying that - > > (Just about feel I should have been paid for doing that....) > > But Ive forgotten a lot of it - should have read it when I was young - > things stay in one's mind then...I mean I should have been young when i read > it which is impossible becaue i was.. > nearly 50! So I wasnt young , therefore I was old and...well I was older > than when I was young and could remember much more better.... > > One spin off -in reading critical works i have sometimes said - that's an > interesting idea - I'll use that in my poems or a comment by a critic has > inspired a poem etc - the best critical wods can be re-read a lot. > > I suppose this is all a bit "fatuous" or "redundant" ..oh well...thought > Pooh bear..its a funny life under a little cloud that just appearified. > > (Poor old Pooh was always getting muddled -was a "serial" something you > ate - and what were paratrooptters doing in a book? these were some of the > silly ideas Pooh kept thinking of...) > > (I am now ~14.4 stone multiply by 6.35 to kilogrammes) > > Method - walk each day and exercisse during the day - also eg halve or > quarter the amount of potatoes etc in my meals and eat apples and other > fruit etc rather than so much toast - use water crackers instead of toast or > bread or have only one bread intead of two - keep a jar of water in the > fridge rather than use those "sachets (mostly sugar they are) with a bit of > lemon etc (use milk instead of Yoghurt) - concentrate my mind on getting > healthy and fit as an interesting project - like a game/hobby -make it a > pleasant challenge and a game.... > > Richard Taylor > > Auckland - New Zealand > > richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz > > Poet ("Well..." ) / Chess Addict (partly recovered) /Was 15 stone - working > on it -/ Grandfather/ BA /NZCE/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: > > --------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice > cream."---------------------- > > ASPECT BOOKS www.abebooks.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alan C Golding" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:19 AM > Subject: Two new publications > > > >I wanted to let everyone know about the first two publications in the > > critical series that I co-edit with Lynn Keller and Dee Morris for the > > U. of Wisconsin Press. Clicking on the URLs should get you straight to > > the appropriate page on the UW website, and to ordering information. > > (Unsurprising tip: they're cheaper through Amazon.) > > > > Paracritical Hinge > > Essays, Talks, Notes, Interviews > > Nathaniel Mackey > > 312 pp. 6 x 9 2 illustrations > > ISBN 0-299-20400-6 Cloth $65.00 s > > ISBN 0-299-20404-9 Paper $24.95 s > > http://www.wisc.edu/wisconsinpress/books/2600.htm > > > > Jorie Graham > > Essays on the Poetry > > Edited by Thomas Gardner > > 328 pp. 6 x 9 > > ISBN 0-299-20320-4 Cloth $65.00 s > > ISBN 0-299-20324-7 Paper $24.95 s > > http://www.wisc.edu/wisconsinpress/books/3590.htm > > > > Alan Golding > > > > > > -- > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > > > > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:14:18 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Catfish McDarris Comments: To: editor@pavementsaw.org In-Reply-To: <4212A830.7167511A@pavementsaw.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i thought it was lew welch At 8:58 PM -0500 2/15/05, David Baratier wrote: > >>he killed himself alive? > >Yes, Catfish is like the inverse ditty >Marianne Moore invented for Raid; >unless it was an imposter forging >his handwriting for future fame >from death. > > >Be well > >David Baratier, Editor > >Pavement Saw Press >PO Box 6291 >Columbus OH 43206 >USA > >http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:14:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Hugh Steinberg Subject: Re: Catfish McDarris In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Actually, Moore didn't come up with the name Edsel. She was invited by Ford to name the new car but the company decided to name the vehicle after Henry and Clara Ford’s only child, Edsel. Hugh Steinberg --- Stephen Vincent wrote: > > > > Yes, Catfish is like the inverse ditty > > Marianne Moore invented for Raid; > > Marianne Moore? > "Raid Kills Bugs Dead" > was a tagline created by Lew Welch, > while, I think, he was a young "copywriter" > in Chicago. Lew's thesis at Reed College > in the early Fifties was on the work of > Gertrude Stein. You can see here > how she provided him with certain resources. > In 1957 or 58 Marianne Moore > created the name "Edsel" for a new model Ford. > Sadly the Edsel was killed dead in the market > by American consumers. "Oversexed" - that > particular vertical oval cavity in the grill - > was considered one of the reasons why. > Once upon a gothic time I created a bumpersticker, > "Bodyguards Make Better Lovers" > in honor of Patty Hearst and Susan Ford, > both of whom, or Patty, at least, married > one of their bodyguards. Unlike Lew > Welch or Marianne Moore I did not get paid much, > in fact nada. But, at the time, 1976, > it was kind of a comment. > > Stephen V > http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 00:28:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: A Letter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed A Letter I wasn't expecting you to write to me. I'm a little sad and confused myself. I'm not very happy when I'm living in limbo. Even though it hurt to lose you, it feels better than wondering if you would ever decide how you felt about me. I cut things off because I wanted to move on. When you say that you don't want to write about how you feel or have been feeling, but you say we need to communicate, what exactly do you want to communicate? What else is there besides how you feel or have been feeling? In the absence of that, I have to guess how you feel. The best guess I came up with was that you just weren't into me all that much any more. And I don't want to waste my time on someone who isn't into me. It hurts a lot to be with someone who says that maybe he loves me and hints that he finds me pretty unpleasant. When I was with you, I felt like I was a huge disappointment for you. Now you can be disappointed with someone else. I guess I'm still angry. I love you. That isn't good enough, though. I can't even name what our problems are, so I don't see how those problems could ever be fixed. I have little faith that we can communicate without professional assistance. Are you ready for that? Have you been getting therapy for yourself? You said you wanted to do that first, so that's more waiting limbo for me. Anyway, I think you're right. Our feelings have never been able to make up for our problems. I'm trying to solve my own problems now. I don't think I can be any good to anyone until I'm good with myself. I never wanted to lose you either. But it would be far worse to lose myself, and I'm the one who needs all of my spare time and effort right now. I wish it didn't have to be this way. There's this part of me that's trying to figure out the magic thing to say to make everything work out in the end for us. But that's just me trying to manipulate the situation. I can't control this or make it work out. You do what you've gotta do. I'm doing what I have to do. I don't exactly miss you. You're heart left me so long ago, I got used to you being gone. I miss the memory of you from long, long ago, when you were a god to me and I wanted to be just like you. I miss how I felt about myself when I met you. I felt pretty and amazing and creative and like I was an extraordinary being. And I thought all of that about you, too. Somehow, for both of us, our self-esteem and excitement about being in the world slowly eroded. Maybe all those good feelings in the beginning were artificial, or exaggerated. But I'm trying to emerge for real now. I'm not looking to you to help me feel good about myself, or blaming you for making me feel bad about myself. I don't know what you're doing, or how you feel. I can't be responsible for that. So why are you angry with me for cutting you off? What would you have me I didn't want to talk to you anymore because I didn't want to go through the agony of hoping it would work out for us. Especially when you wouldn't even commit to trying. I think I also wanted to prove that I'm not like . But maybe it's you who's like . Maybe you enjoy the unstable drama of loving someone who doesn't give you what you want. I'm getting what I want for myself. I want things to work out for us somehow, but only on terms that feel right and healthy. I don't know what that would be like, exactly. This is a long letter. Longer than wants right now. He's singing " " in my face to get my attention. He misses you. He asked if you could come over Thursday night. I didn't know if it was better to say yes or no. I know nothing. _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 00:46:07 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: Catfish McDarris MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steven, Maria I did know it was Lew Welch but I was warned not to talk about that subject any where near what the word I'm not mentioning that this thread is about. So I thought that Marianne Moore was a good substitute because the car she promoted went into that great car lot. Although I also thought about Elsie Stevens being on a dime and furthermore about Terry Ryan from Defiance Ohio who was a prize winning poet who you probably would not know who wrote like Ogden Nash and therefore would lose the joke. Please forgive me but I need to practice civility and hidden meanings not to enrage a flaming backchannel community and thereby lose my livelihood due to an errant blogger. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 01:11:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Book Review of Books Mostly Liked MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Book Review of Books Mostly Liked This is written in a more traditional style, in the hopes of greater distribution, and readership, and in the hopes it will be of greater use. I already reviewed Bunt's Islam in the Digital Age for RCCS and will send that out in the future, when it's published online. Islam in the Digital Age and a number of other books have given me a greater interest in the Quran itself. I can highly recommend: Quranic Studies: Sources and Methods of Scriptural Interpretation, John Wansbrough; forward, translations, and expanded notes by Andrew Rippin, Prometheus, 2004, original edition Oxford 1977. For me, raised with a greater knowledge of biblical exegesis, the Quran has remained somewhat impenetrable in terms of hermeneutics. This book goes a long way towards remedying that; it describes the various tropes and interpretive modes available in enormous detail. Wansbrough begins with retribution, sign, exile, and covenant, analyzes the concept of prophethood, indicates how narratology and textual archaeology tend to fail, presents a wide variety of exegetic principles, and so forth. The work is both older and difficult - the original has sections in Arabic, Hebrew, German, Greek, and Latin (at least) left untranslated, but Rippin's addenda help a great deal. I feel I can work with this book, move out to a greater understanding of the scaffolding, if not the interiority, of Islam, and for an atheist, this is the best I can hope for. On the other end of the spectrum, which closes the ring through Avicenna and Averroes, look at Moses Maimonides, The Guide of the Perplexed, the translation by Shlomo Pines, with an introductory essay (quite long) by Leo Strauss, University of Chicago Press, 1963, still in print. Note the name Leo Strauss - the same beloved of neocons in the US (see the BBC's Powers of Nightmare). Strauss was an expert in Maimonides, and it is oddly to Maimonides one might turn for an analysis of current US political rhetoric rhetorical tendency. For Maimonides writes for the 'perplexed' - those who are already knowledgeable in Biblical exegesis, but who want to explore the deeper meaning of the words, especially in light of Arabic and Greek philosophy. The work is two-tiered, which Strauss' essay, How to Begin to Study The Guide of the Perplexed, brings out - there is exoteric and esoteric knowledge, and it is not necessary for everyone to understand everything in depth. Out of this comes Bush, eventually, without the grace, the knowledge, the problematized liberalism, that seems to characterize Strauss' thought. And the Guide is interesting itself; it begins with a terrific analysis of the attributes of God, and moves on from there. Most highly recommended. Dover has an earlier translation, but it's more difficult to read, and without the introduction, of course. (The translator also has an introduction, The Philosophic Sources of The Guide of the Perplexed, which indicates the tremendous cross-fertilization among Arabic, Greek, and Jewish sources at the time.) My ignorance of Strauss (and of political philosophy in general) led me to The Rebirth of Classical Political Rationalism, An Introduction to the Thought of Leo Strauss: Essays and Lectures by Leo Strauss, Selected and Introduced by Thomas L. Pangle, Chicago 1989, currently in print. Here you'll find The Spiritual Crisis of Modern Rationalism; "Relativism"; An Introduction to Heideggerian Existentialism; Exoteric Teaching; The Dialog between Reason and Revelation; and a number of other essays. The essay on Heidegger, who Strauss considers a master, is itself a revelation; his interstitial scholarship reminds me of Jane Gallop. Strauss thought, if anything, is complex, and this is an excellent introduction. We need to return to the sources at this point, not of theodicy, but at the least, to those who struggled with materials that Bush and cohorts, bin Laden and cohorts, have simplified and bent out of all recognition (the two engaged in a violent dance of slaughter and retribution etc. etc.). Strauss leads to Karl Kraus, by virtue of politics and the crisis of rationalism. I've read Kraus for years, on and off, and he now slides into the descriptions of the work of Elfriede Jelinek, which I've mentioned before. I've read three of her four novels in print in English from Serpent's Tail, and am in the middle of the fourth (Lust, translated Michael Hulse, 1992). Although I'm probably the last to argue for a 'national literature,' there are moments among Kraus/Jelinek that resonate strongly. It's Wonderful Wonderful Times, Serpent's Tail, translated Hulse, 1990, that has given me nightmares and an interiority as if the writing were inscribed just on the outer edge of a scar among twins, or what happens in the 50s in Vienna. This is the strongest fiction I have read in a long long time, and I hesitate to call it fiction; whatever it is, it is something else along the lines of philosophical psychology without the cleverness that characterizes so much in what might be considered a fallen genre. Read it. Here are three O'Reilly books. The first is: Google Hacks, Tips & Tools for Smarter Searching, Tara Calishain and Rael Dornfest, 2005. I've actually found this book indispensable, since I play with the API, Gmail, and so forth. It's like working a cranium, or a model of a cranium. This edition is far more useful than the first, since it covers the wide variety of material coming out of Google labs, as well as the usual material on the deep syntax of web searches. I'm surprised how valuable it's been. I have mixed feelings of Google itself - on one hand a commercial enterprise with over 100,000 computers - but on the other, an entrance, configured/corrupted into the fabric of knowledge itself. So I work with it; I could work with any number of other search engines, but Google is familiar, and does what I want it to. When I try other engines or access modes, I always return to this one, even with the advertising, etc. It's stripped down and oddly open, and the book is an excellent guide to all that it can do. Second O'Reilly is Internet Annoyances: How to Fix the Most Annoying Things about Going Online, Preston Gralla, 2005. The format of the book itself is annoying; computer books at this point seem to divide into 'serious' and therefore straight-forward text/diagrams - and 'home use' - with over the top production. This follows the latter, and as a result it's difficult to use, which is a shame because the information is quite useful. Unlike Google Hacks, the best way to use this book, unfortunately, is to read straight-through; otherwise you might miss something, and there are things to miss. This is for the non-geek net user, but I did find good material on software for connection speeds. Gralla himself is excellent. The third of these - O'Reilly send them to me for review - I ask them - if the book looks promising or useful or valuable for cultural production of any sort - since I've very little money - I was a consultant on one of the Running Linux editions - that started it - is Home Hacking Projects for Geeks, Tony Northrup and Eric Faulkner, also 2005. So this summer I have a residency at the Grand Central Art Center in Santa Ana, and want to work more with hardware, and will be using this and the other books I mentioned in other reviews that deal with wiring and wireless and automation. This may be the best of the group, with clear text, etc. Some of the projects require hardware modification and some don't. A lot involve viewing - home theater, 'Watch Your House Across the Network,' tivo-ing a radio, monitoring a pet, etc., and the scripts, many for linux, will be useful enough. I yearn for the day when creating an installation will be simply a matter of linking components like modules or subroutines or old analog audio synthesizers. It's getting there, and books like these are guides along the way. I found a copy of Frank Lloyd Wright's Drawings and Plans of Frank Lloyd Wright, The Early Period (1893-1909), a Dover reissue of an original German edition from Berlin 1910. This was a real surprise; here's either convergence or an incredible familiarity with Japanese Heian architecture; in any case the buildings are spread horizontally with negative spaces and all sorts of eave-ings that sink the structures into the plains. I thought I knew Wright - wrong! - and if you have a chance to find this, check it out. For some reason it was at a Barnes & Noble on sale for fifty cents (new). Also by Dover, in the same sale, Introduction to Space Dynamics, William Tyrrell Thomson, from the first edition Wiley, 1963. I realize how little I understand the dynamics of space-flight, and this book explains it in detail. The mathematics is difficult; I get the 'general idea,' and that's enough at the moment. There's a lot of material on gyroscopic dynamics, torque of all sorts, etc. If this book were current, it would be accompanied by a cdrom with all sorts of demonstrations. Still, it's fun as it is, and certainly if you 'know math,' check it out. Finally, the Pilgrims had chronicles, and I didn't know that, and found a book, Chronicles of the Pilgrim Fathers, published by Dent/Dutton 1910, introduction by John Masefield of all people. The chapters are New England's Memorial; Supplement to New England's Memorial; Cushman's Discourse; New England's Trials; Winslow's Relation; and Winslow's Brief Narrative and the material is fascinating. I've been reading these sorts of things, if sorts they are, for several years, after I found that Letters From an American Farmer (Crevecoeur) contained early material on Wilkes-Barre Pennsylvania, where I was born. There were bitter and violent wars there and hunger and fury and fear and slaughter and it was in the middle of the north-east of the state and for the narrative, imminent. So the Pilgrim material is equally of interest, at least a century earlier; there is much on Native Americans that I hadn't seen. If you can find this or similar, read away; it's as astonishing as Hakluyt. Finally - is anyone out there working with ELF radio? I'm interested in working with one. - === ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 01:30:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: years ago i was jumping around MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed years ago i was jumping around these are the images i just found because i also found a mac powerbook g3 at the salvation army with accessories slurp slurp and extra memory for $99 and i was looking for my software disks to install lovely macisms so there was this disk and these things and i thought why not the susans http://www.asondheim.org/susan.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/susan2.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/susan3.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/susangra.jpg susan graham images from my susan graham works the dings http://www.asondheim.org/ding1.mp4 http://www.asondheim.org/ding2.mp4 off the screen imagery, i was lazy, from mathematica transformations you get the idea not the detail oh sometimes this keyboard is skipping on me now too much typing and thinking back hurts call it a day, a day call a night a night __ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 01:22:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: SleepingFish wants your Meme Expressions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit so>>>> what is a meme.....ory????? or frenchy???? or ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:20:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: A Letter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Prison Talk: 1966 Mutha Fucka!!! U talk to me like I'm sum asshole Whitey* fish! Here be the me you need to know. We fucked. It was good; you know it! And we could be good again escept you be fucked up. I don't want... Fuck no! I don't need no Bitch wants more than me! Fuck You! =20 Fuck ur asshole forgiveness! =20 Fuck yo mother! Fuck yo children (they ain't mine and could 'a bin)! And now I'm on the line, Fuck the asshole told you I was lookin' for anotha... who that be, ain't me! But bet Ur ass I find that asshole He be fucked by me... * Note: "Whitey Fish" was the term used to ID new, first time = convicts...no blacks in Soledad were "first timers" Only a few, select = "white" cons were first timers (fish) in this place. Blacks and = Hispanics had of course a history of crime, and therefore they had a = police history, so they came with a past, a history; they were never = fish: they were certainly not Whitey Fish. =20 Alex=20 .. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alan Sondheim=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 9:28 PM Subject: A Letter A Letter I wasn't expecting you to write to me. I'm a little sad and confused myself. I'm not very happy when I'm living in limbo. Even though it hurt to lose you, it feels better than wondering if = you would ever decide how you felt about me. I cut things off because I wanted to move on. When you say that you = don't want to write about how you feel or have been feeling, but you say we = need to communicate, what exactly do you want to communicate? What else is there besides how you feel or have been feeling? In the absence of that, I have to guess how you feel. The best guess I came up with was that you just weren't into me all = that much any more. And I don't want to waste my time on someone who isn't into me. It = hurts a lot to be with someone who says that maybe he loves me and hints = that he finds me pretty unpleasant. When I was with you, I felt like I was a huge disappointment for = you. Now you can be disappointed with someone else. I guess I'm still angry. I love you. That isn't good enough, though. I can't even name what our problems are, so I don't see how those problems could ever be fixed. I have little faith that we can communicate without professional assistance. Are you ready for that? Have you been getting therapy for yourself? You said you wanted to do that first, so that's more waiting limbo = for me. Anyway, I think you're right. Our feelings have never been able to make up for our problems. I'm = trying to solve my own problems now. I don't think I can be any good to anyone until I'm good with = myself. I never wanted to lose you either. But it would be far worse to lose myself, and I'm the one who needs = all of my spare time and effort right now. I wish it didn't have to be = this way. There's this part of me that's trying to figure out the magic thing = to say to make everything work out in the end for us. But that's just me trying to manipulate the situation. I can't control this or make it work out. You do what you've gotta = do. I'm doing what I have to do. I don't exactly miss you. You're heart left me so long ago, I got used to you being gone. I miss the memory of you from long, long ago, when you were a god to = me and I wanted to be just like you. I miss how I felt about myself when I met you. I felt pretty and amazing and creative and like I was an = extraordinary being. And I thought all of that about you, too. Somehow, for both of us, our self-esteem and excitement about being = in the world slowly eroded. Maybe all those good feelings in the = beginning were artificial, or exaggerated. But I'm trying to emerge for real = now. I'm not looking to you to help me feel good about myself, or blaming = you for making me feel bad about myself. I don't know what you're doing, = or how you feel. I can't be responsible for that. So why are you angry with me for cutting you off? What would you have me I didn't want to talk to you anymore because I didn't want to go through the agony of hoping it would work out for us. Especially when = you wouldn't even commit to trying. I think I also wanted to prove that = I'm not like . But maybe it's you who's like . Maybe you enjoy the unstable drama of loving someone who doesn't = give you what you want. I'm getting what I want for myself. I want things to work out for us somehow, but only on terms that feel = right and healthy. I don't know what that would be like, exactly. This is a long letter. Longer than wants right now. He's singing " " in my face to get my attention. He misses = you. He asked if you could come over Thursday night. I didn't know if it was better to say yes or no. I know nothing. _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 18:09:29 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: robert lane Subject: submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Malleable Jangle Issue 3 February is online at the moment featuring the following poets: Lawrence Upton * Sue Stanford * Andy Jackson * Srinjay Chakravarti * F.J. Bergmann * David Berray * Sabyasachi Roy and there are just under two [2] weeks to go until the next issue. We seek to publish unpublished, original poetry, and related articles. We are seeking submissions of poetry, and related articles for Issue 4 March. I have been fishing for articles on poetics, or reviews, and have not had a single bite yet. Who will be the first to submit anything on poetics? I don't know? Issue 4 March will be Avant Garde, or maybe Modern, meets Australian heartland in its layout and design. Although based in Australia Malleable Jangle is International in its orientation, and encourages submissions from around the world. Submit your work to: malleablejangle@yahoo.com.au I'd like to thank all who have submitted their work to Malleable Jangle and hope that we continue to receive such quality submissions in the future. Best regards, Robert Lane. ===== online poetry journal malleablejangle the poetry of Robert Lane deja vu workshops Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:36:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: Two new publications Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original I am trying to read some of these posts and the one I sent but I realise that mine - because I just watched an Ali G movie I cant get his voice and accents and jiving out of my head so its all crazy - cant even think ! Really funny bloke old Ali G !!! But I cant make sense of anything just now - the post I sent seems even more bizarre than I intended (because of the typos actually I didn't intend anything - I just write what comes into my head as I am writing- bugger intending things - because of my spelling mistakes (mis-types) and one hour or so of Ali G clowning around and soon.....cant even work out what Ron was talking about - something about killing babies Richard Taylor Auckland - New Zealand richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet ("Well..." ) / Chess Addict (partly recovered) /Was 15 stone - working on it -/ Grandfather/ BA /NZCE/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: --------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."---------------------- ASPECT BOOKS www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "ALDON L NIELSEN" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:57 PM Subject: Re: Two new publications > serial poetics not the same as serialism in music (though it comes around > to > that later in the persons of Enslin and Taggart) -- composition in series, > see > Olson, Duncan and so forth -- > > On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:48:50 +0000, Richard Taylor wrote: > >> The book "the Para Critical Hinge" by nathaniel Mackey looks interesting >> but what is "serial poetics" - similaryr to "seral music" ? and >> "diasporic >> syncretism"? >> >> >> "to the emancipatory potential of collaborative practices; from serial >> poetics to diasporic syncretism; " >> >> >> I suppose all would be revealed with the book itself but ..just >> wondering - >> idont need such a book (indeed - what do we need?) but it looks >> interesting... >> >> I boought abook on long poems by women etc by Lyn Keller (she is very >> astute >> critic and writes well) from - via ADD ALL - a steo up from my >> photocopying >> the entire book by Jerome McGann (I surrender!! I'll come quietly >> Ossifer!!) >> called The Visible Language of Modernsim which is a facinating book - its >> neatly in my folder - but that was a big job copying that - >> >> (Just about feel I should have been paid for doing that....) >> >> But Ive forgotten a lot of it - should have read it when I was young - >> things stay in one's mind then...I mean I should have been young when i >> read >> it which is impossible becaue i was.. >> nearly 50! So I wasnt young , therefore I was old and...well I was older >> than when I was young and could remember much more better.... >> >> One spin off -in reading critical works i have sometimes said - that's >> an >> interesting idea - I'll use that in my poems or a comment by a critic >> has >> inspired a poem etc - the best critical wods can be re-read a lot. >> >> I suppose this is all a bit "fatuous" or "redundant" ..oh well...thought >> Pooh bear..its a funny life under a little cloud that just appearified. >> >> (Poor old Pooh was always getting muddled -was a "serial" something you >> ate - and what were paratrooptters doing in a book? these were some of >> the >> silly ideas Pooh kept thinking of...) >> >> (I am now ~14.4 stone multiply by 6.35 to kilogrammes) >> >> Method - walk each day and exercisse during the day - also eg halve or >> quarter the amount of potatoes etc in my meals and eat apples and other >> fruit etc rather than so much toast - use water crackers instead of toast >> or >> bread or have only one bread intead of two - keep a jar of water in the >> fridge rather than use those "sachets (mostly sugar they are) with a bit >> of >> lemon etc (use milk instead of Yoghurt) - concentrate my mind on >> getting >> healthy and fit as an interesting project - like a game/hobby -make it a >> pleasant challenge and a game.... >> >> Richard Taylor >> >> Auckland - New Zealand >> >> richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz >> >> Poet ("Well..." ) / Chess Addict (partly recovered) /Was 15 stone - >> working >> on it -/ Grandfather/ BA /NZCE/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: >> >> --------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice >> cream."---------------------- >> >> ASPECT BOOKS www.abebooks.com >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Alan C Golding" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:19 AM >> Subject: Two new publications >> >> >> >I wanted to let everyone know about the first two publications in the >> > critical series that I co-edit with Lynn Keller and Dee Morris for the >> > U. of Wisconsin Press. Clicking on the URLs should get you straight to >> > the appropriate page on the UW website, and to ordering information. >> > (Unsurprising tip: they're cheaper through Amazon.) >> > >> > Paracritical Hinge >> > Essays, Talks, Notes, Interviews >> > Nathaniel Mackey >> > 312 pp. 6 x 9 2 illustrations >> > ISBN 0-299-20400-6 Cloth $65.00 s >> > ISBN 0-299-20404-9 Paper $24.95 s >> > http://www.wisc.edu/wisconsinpress/books/2600.htm >> > >> > Jorie Graham >> > Essays on the Poetry >> > Edited by Thomas Gardner >> > 328 pp. 6 x 9 >> > ISBN 0-299-20320-4 Cloth $65.00 s >> > ISBN 0-299-20324-7 Paper $24.95 s >> > http://www.wisc.edu/wisconsinpress/books/3590.htm >> > >> > Alan Golding >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. >> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 >> >> > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 23:09:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: Catfish McDarris - and water -who did the water test? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original (water test down a bit -) Havent been following this but its a bit like Aaron's jive - very funny (well droll) pseudo politics thing I just glanced at it and that D Barratier fellow is a naughty naughty maker upper!! I suspect...but dont know what they are talking about...having fun though by the looks ...unless its serious ...dont know. They have that advert "Raid Kills Bugs Dead " here on Kiwi TV - bloody adverts - but I have a few I like - I like one about a "Goldstein " who is sent from the US to find out what makes the ASB (bannk) "diffrent") by his boss (its a story) - and a few others - but mostly there is this terrible shouting so I switch the news off in the middle and forget what is coming - might revert to listening to the News on the radio. Then does any of it matter - the News - we cant change anything - what does it matter about something about to happen ot that has happened - mostly it doesnt - to each of us - we all have enough problems ourselves...? I did that water thing - drink water and then describe it -enjoyed it - hope that was fair dinkum.... Bloody hard to describe the taste of water - keep (kept) thinking of what I know or knew about water...arther than focusing on what was it realy like - this sensation/taste of water? Richard Taylor Auckland - New Zealand richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet ("Well..." ) / Chess Addict (partly recovered) /Was 15 stone - working on it -/ Grandfather/ BA /NZCE/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: --------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."---------------------- ASPECT BOOKS www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hugh Steinberg" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:14 PM Subject: Re: Catfish McDarris > Actually, Moore didn't come up with the name Edsel. She was invited by > Ford to name the new car > but the company decided to name the vehicle after Henry and Clara Ford's > only child, Edsel. > > Hugh Steinberg > --- Stephen Vincent wrote: > >> > >> > Yes, Catfish is like the inverse ditty >> > Marianne Moore invented for Raid; >> >> Marianne Moore? >> "Raid Kills Bugs Dead" >> was a tagline created by Lew Welch, >> while, I think, he was a young "copywriter" >> in Chicago. Lew's thesis at Reed College >> in the early Fifties was on the work of >> Gertrude Stein. You can see here >> how she provided him with certain resources. >> In 1957 or 58 Marianne Moore >> created the name "Edsel" for a new model Ford. >> Sadly the Edsel was killed dead in the market >> by American consumers. "Oversexed" - that >> particular vertical oval cavity in the grill - >> was considered one of the reasons why. >> Once upon a gothic time I created a bumpersticker, >> "Bodyguards Make Better Lovers" >> in honor of Patty Hearst and Susan Ford, >> both of whom, or Patty, at least, married >> one of their bodyguards. Unlike Lew >> Welch or Marianne Moore I did not get paid much, >> in fact nada. But, at the time, 1976, >> it was kind of a comment. >> >> Stephen V >> http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com >> > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 06:08:11 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the dead sleep like this... d...a...r...k....d...a...w...n n i t e .....d...r...n... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 06:52:12 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Help NARAL kill babies In-Reply-To: <20050216020358.32331.193.qmail@web10.getactive.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit is this supposed to be ironic? or serious? Because it sounds like it was written by Randall Terry. Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Ron Silliman > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 8:04 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Help NARAL kill babies > > > Dear Friend, > > I hope you take a moment to fight the the Right-To-Life Movement > by killing an unborn baby--yours, or perhaps a friend's--this > Valentine's Day. > > Show the unborn who's boss this holiday season. After all, it is > your convenience, your wealth and comfort that are important: > not those of an unborn child who knows nothing about life yet. > By keeping the population down, we increase access to the > world's precious resources by people that count (the born) > through a simple, nearly invisible act of slaughter. > > Please join NARAL in this important cause. Thank you. > > > http://prochoiceaction.org/campaign/open_letter_salon?rk=3d_G_LS11memW > > *********************************** > Powered by GetActive Software, Inc. > Relationship Management for Member Organizations (tm) > http://www.getactive.com > *********************************** > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:15:08 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?"...still_filled_with_some_of_the_=9260s_and_?= =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?=9270s_profs_that_were_the_anti-American_group.?= =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?.."?= Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed [from the land of Bennett and Baratier....] Lawmaker says profs are pushing agendas Thursday, January 27, 2005 Kathy Lynn Gray THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH Legislation that would restrict what university professors could say =20= in their classrooms was introduced yesterday in Ohio. Judging from reactions in other states where similar bills have been =20= considered, controversy won=92t be far behind. Marion Sen. Larry A. Mumper=92s "academic bill of rights for higher =20= education" would prohibit instructors at public or private universities =20= from "persistently" discussing controversial issues in class or from =20 using their classes to push political, ideological, religious or =20 anti-religious views. Senate Bill 24 also would prohibit professors from discriminating =20 against students based on their beliefs and keep universities from =20 hiring, firing, promoting or giving tenure to instructors based on =20 their beliefs. Mumper, a Republican, said many professors undermine the values of =20 their students because "80 percent or so of them (professors) are =20 Democrats, liberals or socialists or card-carrying Communists" who =20 attempt to indoctrinate students. "These are young minds that haven=92t had a chance to form their own =20= opinions," Mumper said. "Our colleges and universities are still filled =20= with some of the =9260s and =9270s profs that were the anti-American = group. =20 They=92ve gotten control of how to give people tenure and so the = colleges =20 continue to move in this direction." Joan McLean, a political-science professor at Ohio Wesleyan =20 University, said Mumper=92s legislation is misguided and would have a =20= chilling effect on the free-flowing debate that is a hallmark of =20 democracy. "This is not the kind of democracy we think we=92re spreading when we =20= hear President Bush=92s words. What we=92re celebrating is our ability = to =20 not control information." Besides, McLean said, who would define what issues could not be =20 discussed? The language of Mumper=92s bill comes from a 2003 booklet by =20 conservative commentator David Horowitz that lays out how students can =20= persuade universities to adopt the "bill of rights." The booklet says =20= it is "dedicated to restoring academic freedom and educational values =20= to America=92s institutions of higher learning." The issue has gone national. Horowitz created Students for Academic Freedom, a group based in =20 Washington that has chapters on 135 campuses, to promote his views. On the other side, the American Association of University Professors, =20= which has thousands of members at hundreds of campuses, argues that =20 eliminating controversial issues from courses waters down academic =20 freedoms. Mumper said he=92s been investigating the issue for months and has = heard =20 of an Ohio student who said she was discriminated against because she =20= supported Bush for president. "I think the bill asks that colleges and universities be fair in their = =20 approach to their education of students," Mumper said. "They need to =20 have their rights defended and need to be respected by faculty and =20 administrators." In a Kenyon College publication, President S. Georgia Nugent called =20= Horowitz=92s thinking "a severe threat" to academic freedom. "I see this so-called bill of rights, the platform that he has =20 constructed, as one that would explicitly introduce into college and =20 university appointments a kind of political litmus test," she said. Mumper said he will "push this all the way" so that it=92s approved by = =20 either the legislature or by individual universities. When a similar proposal was considered in the Colorado legislature =20 last year, it was withdrawn after state universities agreed to some of =20= its principles. The issue also has been debated in Indiana and =20 considered in Congress. http://www.dispatch.com/election.php?story=3Ddispatch/2005/01/27/=20 20050127-C1-04.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:22:57 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Cheney Says Bremer Pocketed $9 Billion Slated For Iraq: Demands Cut Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Cheney Says Bremer Pocketed $9 Billion Slated For Iraq: Former Coalition Provisional Authority Honcho Buys Suriname, Classic Cars, Nukes On Black Market: Audit: U.S. lost track of $9 billion in Iraq funds; Bremer Stole Funds In Sacks Used To Suffocate Iraqi Prisoners: Pentagon, Bremer Dispute Inspector General's Report By JEFFEY LUBE They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:45:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Re: submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thank you for your query but we will not be reading new work until sept. 2005. the new issue is going up next week. please resend. best, MR ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert lane" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 2:09 AM Subject: submissions > Malleable Jangle Issue 3 February is online at the > moment featuring the > following poets: > > Lawrence Upton * Sue Stanford * Andy Jackson * > Srinjay Chakravarti * > F.J. Bergmann * David Berray * Sabyasachi Roy > > and there are just under two [2] weeks to go until the > next issue. > > We seek to publish unpublished, original poetry, and > related articles. > > We are seeking submissions of poetry, and related > articles for Issue 4 > March. I have been fishing for articles on poetics, or > reviews, and > have not had a single bite yet. Who will be the first > to submit anything > on poetics? I don't know? > > Issue 4 March will be Avant Garde, or maybe Modern, > meets Australian > heartland in its layout and design. Although based in > Australia Malleable > Jangle is International in its orientation, and > encourages submissions > from around the world. Submit your work to: > > malleablejangle@yahoo.com.au > > I'd like to thank all who have submitted their work to > Malleable Jangle > and hope that we continue to receive such quality > submissions in the > future. Best regards, Robert Lane. > > > > ===== > online poetry journal malleablejangle > the poetry of Robert Lane > deja vu workshops > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. > http://au.movies.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:10:03 -0500 Reply-To: Ron Henry Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Henry Subject: Re: Help NARAL kill babies In-Reply-To: <42134478.109cf92e.7aed.001aSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 06:52:12 -0600, Haas Bianchi wrote: > is this supposed to be ironic? or serious? Because it sounds like it was > written by Randall Terry. Looks to me like someone nasty is impersonating Silliman. Assuming it isn't some uncharacteristically very bad taste by him, he might want to look into the possibility someone has hacked his account. (It looks like it's from the same address as his blog updates, but I didn't look that closely at the email headers to find signs of spoofing.) If it is an impersonation, it's saddening. You see this sort of pathetic crap all the time on Usenet discussion groups, but not usually private, moderated lists like this one. -- Ron Henry AUGHT #13 now out http://people2.clarityconnect.com/webpages6/ronhenry/aught.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:37:22 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Glenn Bach Subject: 4' 33" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Well it's true that it got its first peformance by a pianist (John > Tilbury?), who I believe marked the beginning and end by raising and > lowering the lid. I think there are other versions scored for other > ensembles. I'm on digest mode, so I don't know if anyone else brought this up, but it was David Tudor who first performed 4'33" at a concert in Woodstock. The piece is in three parts, and Tudor lowered and raised the lid of the keyboard to signal the beginnings and endings of each movement. There are actually several versions of the score, one of them including instructions to the musicians with one of my favorite words, "TACET." An interesting website of research behind the piece and its development and performance: http://music.research.home.att.net/4min33se.htm G. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:22:41 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: U.S. Scientists Say They Are Told to Alter Findings Comments: To: dreamtime@yahoogroups.com, WRYTING-L Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed U.S. Scientists Say They Are Told to Alter Findings More than 200 Fish and Wildlife researchers cite cases where =20 conclusions were reversed to weaken protections and favor business, a =20= survey finds. By Julie Cart, Times Staff Writer More than 200 scientists employed by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service =20= say they have been directed to alter official findings to lessen =20 protections for plants and animals, a survey released Wednesday says. The survey of the agency's scientific staff of 1,400 had a 30% response =20= rate and was conducted jointly by the Union of Concerned Scientists and =20= Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility. =A0 A division of the Department of the Interior, the Fish and Wildlife =20= Service is charged with determining which animals and plants should be =20= placed on the endangered species list and designating areas where such =20= species need to be protected. More than half of the biologists and other researchers who responded to =20= the survey said they knew of cases in which commercial interests, =20 including timber, grazing, development and energy companies, had =20 applied political pressure to reverse scientific conclusions deemed =20 harmful to their business. Bush administration officials, including Craig Manson, an assistant =20 secretary of the Interior who oversees the Fish and Wildlife Service, =20= have been critical of the 1973 Endangered Species Act, contending that =20= its implementation has imposed hardships on developers and others while =20= failing to restore healthy populations of wildlife. Along with Republican leaders in Congress, the administration is =20 pushing to revamp the act. The president's proposed budget calls for a =20= $3-million reduction in funding of Fish and Wildlife's endangered =20 species programs. "The pressure to alter scientific reports for political reasons has =20 become pervasive at Fish and Wildlife offices around the country," said =20= Lexi Shultz of the Union of Concerned Scientists. Mitch Snow, a spokesman for the Fish and Wildlife Service, said the =20 agency had no comment on the survey, except to say "some of the basic =20= premises just aren't so." The two groups that circulated the survey also made available memos =20 from Fish and Wildlife officials that instructed employees not to =20 respond to the survey, even if they did so on their own time. Snow said =20= that agency employees could not use work time to respond to outside =20 surveys. Fish and Wildlife scientists in 90 national offices were asked 42 =20 questions and given space to respond in essay form in the mail-in =20 survey sent in November. One scientist working in the Pacific region, which includes California, =20= wrote: "I have been through the reversal of two listing decisions due =20= to political pressure. Science was ignored =97 and worse, manipulated, = to =20 build a bogus rationale for reversal of these listing decisions." More than 20% of survey responders reported they had been "directed to =20= inappropriately exclude or alter technical information." However, 69% said they had never been given such a directive. And, =20 although more than half of the respondents said they had been ordered =20= to alter findings to lessen protection of species, nearly 40% said they =20= had never been required to do so. Sally Stefferud, a biologist who retired in 2002 after 20 years with =20 the agency, said Wednesday she was not surprised by the survey results, =20= saying she had been ordered to change a finding on a biological =20 opinion. "Political pressures influence the outcome of almost all the cases," =20 she said. "As a scientist, I would probably say you really can't trust =20= the science coming out of the agency." A biologist in Alaska wrote in response to the survey: "It is one thing =20= for the department to dismiss our recommendations, it is quite another =20= to be forced (under veiled threat of removal) to say something that is =20= counter to our best professional judgment." Don Lindburg, head of the office of giant panda conservation at the =20 Zoological Society of San Diego, said it was unrealistic to expect =20 federal scientists to be exempt from politics or pressure. "I've not stood in the shoes of any of those scientists," he said. "But =20= it is not difficult for me to believe that there are pressures from =20 those who are not happy with conservation objectives, and here I am =20 referring to development interest and others. "But when it comes to altering data, that is a serious matter. I am =20 really sorry to hear that scientists working for the service feel they =20= have to do that. Changing facts to fit the politics =97 that is a very =20= unhealthy thing. If I were a scientist in that position I would just =20 refuse to do it." The Union of Concerned Scientists and the public employee group =20 provided copies of the survey and excerpts from essay-style responses. One biologist based in California, who responded to the survey, said in =20= an interview with The Times that the Fish and Wildlife Service was not =20= interested in adding any species to the endangered species list. "For biologists who do endangered species analysis, my experience is =20 that the majority of them are ordered to reverse their conclusions [if =20= they favor listing]. There are other biologists who will do it if you =20= won't," said the biologist, who spoke on condition of anonymity. http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-=20 scientists10feb10,0,4954654.story?coll=3Dla-home-nation ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 12:34:58 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: NARAL... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit don't get it..didn't write it...the real? drn... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:01:21 -0500 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: BRIEFS, SHORTS and curlies by Matthew Holmes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT new from above/ground press BRIEFS, SHORTS and curlies by Matthew Holmes $4 Cashews I've taken my tongue with its all morning taste of postage and applied a salve of cashews. At my window, looking at rain melting snow birds in the hedges and squirrels eager for my tulips that they can hear stretching below the white sounds of the work week. ===== Matthew Holmes is Chief Inspector of the bad repoesy Mfg. Co. and publisher of Modomnoc, the only quarterly published once a year. Reviews editor for Arc magazine, he lives in Sackville, New Brunswick, where, with the 1928 Press, he prints the 4lphabet Serials and wrecks walls and insulates things (though not with the press per se). His poem hitch was published as a chapbook by above/ground press in 2003. ======= published in ottawa by above/ground press. subscribers rec' complimentary copies. to order, add $1 for postage (or $2 for non-canadian) to rob mclennan, 858 somerset st w, main floor, ottawa ontario k1r 6r7. backlist catalog & submission info at www.track0.com/rob_mclennan ======= above/ground press chapbook subscriptions - starting January 1st, $30 per calendar year (outside of Canada, $30 US) for chapbooks, broadsheets + asides. Current & forthcoming publications by Adam Seelig, Julia Williams, Karen Clavelle, Eric Folsom, Alessandro Porco, Frank Davey, John Lavery, donato mancini, rob mclennan, kath macLean, Andy Weaver, Barry McKinnon, Michael Holmes, Jan Allen, Jason Christie, Patrick Lane, Anita Dolman, Shane Plante, David Fujino, Matthew Holmes + others. payable to rob mclennan. STANZAS subscriptions, $20 (CAN) for 5 issues (non-Canadian, $20 US). recent issues featuring work by Rachel Zolf, J.L. Jacobs & Michael Holmes. bibliography on-line. ======= -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:19:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Scappettone" Subject: New Brutalism reading this Sunday Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Friends & poetasters, I'm reading this week with Kelly Holt & hate to cross-post but would love to see you so here goes, jen The New Brutalism reading series presents Kelly Holt & Jennifer Scappettone Sunday, February 20 @ 21 Grand 449B 23rd St. Oakland, CA 94612 7-9 pm $4 Jennifer Scappettone's recent writing appears or is forthcoming in Aufgabe, Chain, Five Fingers Review, Mirage #4/Period(ical), The Best American Poetry 2004, The Brooklyn Rail, Bay Poetics, Tripwire, War & Peace Volume II, and other journals. Her translations of Amelia Rosselli's work appear in APR, Mid-American Review, and Satellite. She lives in Berkeley, where she is finishing her dissertation on post-Romantic Venice. Kelly Holt was born and raised in San Francisco. She has a chapbook, Equidistances, from PonyXpress (2000). Her poems have appeared in New American Writing, Jacket, 6,500, Mirage 4/ Period(ical), Tolling Elves, Commonweal and 14 Hills, and will appear in Small Town and the Bay Area anthology from Faux press. She received her MFA from San Francisco State University and has taught Creative Writing at SFSU and at UC Santa Cruz, where she is working toward a PhD in Literature, and writing about the influence of Ernst Kantorowicz on the Berkeley Renaissance poets. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 18:53:04 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Cudmore Subject: Re: 4' 33" In-Reply-To: <421376C2.5050106@csulb.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes. It was probably Tilbury who first performed it in UK. I always found the fact that both names begin with T confusing ;) > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Glenn Bach > Sent: 16 February 2005 16:37 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: 4' 33" > > > Well it's true that it got its first peformance by a pianist (John > > Tilbury?), who I believe marked the beginning and end by > raising and > > lowering the lid. I think there are other versions scored for other > > ensembles. > > I'm on digest mode, so I don't know if anyone else brought > this up, but it was David Tudor who first performed 4'33" at > a concert in Woodstock. > The piece is in three parts, and Tudor lowered and raised > the lid of the keyboard to signal the beginnings and endings > of each movement. > > There are actually several versions of the score, one of them > including instructions to the musicians with one of my > favorite words, "TACET." > > An interesting website of research behind the piece and its > development and performance: > http://music.research.home.att.net/4min33se.htm > > G. > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:26:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: 4' 33" In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed one of the more over the top performances was seen on a public television broadcast years ago -- a piano was placed in heavy traffic (round it was, and of a port in air) in, I think maybe Boston Common or Cambridge -- whichever, you get the idea -- of course it worked, but I wondered at the time about the many renditions of this that deliberately put themselves in the way of as much noise as possible, almost as if not trusting to the composer and the audience and the ambience -- At 01:53 PM 2/16/2005, you wrote: >Yes. It was probably Tilbury who first performed it in UK. I always found >the fact that both names begin with T confusing ;) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Glenn Bach > > Sent: 16 February 2005 16:37 > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: 4' 33" > > > > > Well it's true that it got its first peformance by a pianist (John > > > Tilbury?), who I believe marked the beginning and end by > > raising and > > > lowering the lid. I think there are other versions scored for other > > > ensembles. > > > > I'm on digest mode, so I don't know if anyone else brought > > this up, but it was David Tudor who first performed 4'33" at > > a concert in Woodstock. > > The piece is in three parts, and Tudor lowered and raised > > the lid of the keyboard to signal the beginnings and endings > > of each movement. > > > > There are actually several versions of the score, one of them > > including instructions to the musicians with one of my > > favorite words, "TACET." > > > > An interesting website of research behind the piece and its > > development and performance: > > http://music.research.home.att.net/4min33se.htm > > > > G. > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "and now it's winter in America" --Gil Scott-Heron Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 [office] (814) 863-7285 [Fax] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:38:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Help NARAL kill babies In-Reply-To: <20050216020358.32331.193.qmail@web10.getactive.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Ron, Are you being spammed? I suspect this text of irony, but am not sure. Perhaps Swift's Modest Proposal felt like this in its time. Robert Ron Silliman wrote: Dear Friend, I hope you take a moment to fight the the Right-To-Life Movement by killing an unborn baby--yours, or perhaps a friend's--this Valentine's Day. Show the unborn who's boss this holiday season. After all, it is your convenience, your wealth and comfort that are important: not those of an unborn child who knows nothing about life yet. By keeping the population down, we increase access to the world's precious resources by people that count (the born) through a simple, nearly invisible act of slaughter. Please join NARAL in this important cause. Thank you. http://prochoiceaction.org/campaign/open_letter_salon?rk=3d_G_LS11memW *********************************** Powered by GetActive Software, Inc. Relationship Management for Member Organizations (tm) http://www.getactive.com *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:53:22 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Jon Corelis - Can Poetry Liberate Language? In-Reply-To: <100.d146b4d.2f41fc79@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mary, I am interested this, too, except that I think it is a blind alley, an instance of someone saying they have found the "ding-an-sich," or a cry to find it. To my mind, Wittgenstein did not consign poetry to an endless repetition of the so-called real. This seems to be how his mantra that philosophy nothing but therapy for the delusions it creates. In any case, that is a broad generalization about the project Philosophical Investigations, a work that was never finished, and in any case is not written in the consecutive and consequential style of the Tractatus. The PI is a case of analysis interminable. It does, however, start with an explosion of Wittgenstein's previous work and much of western philosophy back to Descartes. He says that a picture had us bewitched. By saying that, he is saying good-bye to a correspondence theory of truth and naive representationalism, the bulwarks of the quest for certainty. Instead, PI posits that language only can be understood as a game, or rather games. This does not mean that we are fully in charge or cognizant and--perhaps this is not Wittgenstein--the games don't change and evolve, as humans evidently do. But Wittgenstein does seem to believe that getting beyond games--in a way that is certain, rather than simply speculative--is impossible. Now, if getting beyond the games is how poetry is to liberate language, well, I just don't get that. Language can never point to anything outside itself. It is our reception of it and the full web of understanding that happens in a communicative that allows language to be a vehicle for meaning. Why not simply go back to Shelley and his belief that poetry reanimates the language of the tribe? It gives us new expressions and sometimes, with it, new experiences. But to look in a language or in poetry for certainty, that I am afraid is a delusion. It is exactly the picture that bewitches. Robert Mary Jo Malo wrote: Jon, I'm extremely interested in this. Philosophical poetry and prose is largely divided into two camps. Those who hope for this liberation and who have a general idea of to what - and - those who don't, but who nevertheless use language to make their point that there is no point to language. Mary Jo =================== Trying to think through the Brown quote (given in my posting under the subject "The topic in a different light") in case anyone's still interested: When Brown talks about "linguistic analysts [who] have had the project of getting rid of the disease in language by reducing language to purely operational terms," I think he's referring to theories of language which insist that language has no meaning except what it's given by its context. In this view, language is "purely" operational because it is atelic: it operates without operating to any end; it works without working *for* anything; it means without meaning anything in particular. Obviously this view is, or at least is close to, the view of language which has subsequently become popularly known as structuralist or post-structuralist. A poetics based on such a view -- what I called a Witttgensteinian poetics -- will see the role of poetry as being to liberate language from the delusory quality that Wittgenstein attributed to it, in order to ... what? In order to do nothing. And this is the problem. The purpose of liberating language should be to enable the poet to use it to reveal meanings which can't be revealed if language remains bound to what we deludedly call reality, if the words remain locked in their nominalist prison. It's dream-work. Just as the psyche's dream-worker can only construct symbolic meaning by liberating sensory images from their quotidian meaning, so the poet can only construct meaning in a language which has been liberated from the delusion that it represents our experience. Or to put it another way, words must be liberated from their ordinary meanings before the poet is able to use them to construct metaphors, and metaphor, as Aristotle said, is the essence of poetic genius. There are indeed times when a cigar is only a cigar, but the dream time, whether of the psychic dream worker, the shaman, or the poet, isn't one of them. The result of a poetics that stops with Wittgenstein instead of beginning with him will be a poetry that offers nothing but a savor of the meaninglessness of the universe: it will be a poetry that turns the world into a kalaidescope which it invites us to delight in passively like a baby reclining under a fascinating jangling and shining crib toy. And from a psychoanalytic standpoint the profoundly infantile nature of such a poetry cannot of course be accidental. Reversion to infantile passivity is the classic simple hysterical response to prolonged unbearable threat. The constructors of such a poetry are acting as artists in spite of themselves, imitating the action of the human self in a world which has made it impossible to live a human life. The unconscious message of such poetry is, "Please don't hurt me." ===================================== Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org _www.geocities.com/joncpoetics_ (http://www.geocities.com/joncpoetics) I offered the Norman O. Brown quote here because I thought it has a striking and specific relevance to contemporary poetics. Brown wrote that some "linguistic analysts have had the project of getting rid of the disease in language by reducing language to purely operational terms." It seems to me that some contemporary American poets have engaged in a similar project to create a poetry which uses language purely operationally, and for the same reason: as part of what Wittgenstein called philosophy's "battle against the bewitchment [Verhexung] of our intelligence by means of language." I think that this project, as Brown also says of the project of the linguistic analysts he mentioned, will fail because it is impossible, and anyway would be pointless if it succeeded. As Brown says, "a purely operational language would be a language without a libidinal (erotic) component; and psychoanalysis would suggest that such a project is impossible because language, like man, has an erotic base, and also useless because man cannot be persuaded to operate (work) for operation's sake." For "language" in the foregoing sentence substitute "poetry," and you can take it as a critique of certain current avant-garde poetics. Poetry, like psychoanalysis, should begin where Wittgenstein ends. A Wittgensteinian poetics will result only in an aridly endless restatement of the problem, but what the poet must provide is a solution. Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org _www.geocities.com/joncpoetics_ (http://www.geocities.com/joncpoetics) ======================== If, in the history of every child, language is first of all a mode of erotic expression and then later succumbs to the domination of the reality-principle, it follows, or perhaps we should say mirrors, the path taken by the human psyche and must share the ultimate fate of the human psyche, namely neurosis ... To regard human speech, the self-evident sign of our superiority over animals, as a disease, or at least as essentially diseased, is for common sense ... a monstrous hypothesis. Yet psychoanalysis, which insists on the necessary connection between cultural achievement and neurosis and between social organization and neurosis, and which therefore defines man as the neurotic animal, can hardly take any other position. ... if psychoanalysis is carried to the logical conclusion that language is neurotic, it can join hands with the twentieth century school of linguistic analysis -- a depth analysis of language -- inspired by that man with a real genius for the psychopathology of language, Wittgenstein. He said, "Philosophy is a battle against the bewitchment [Verhexung] of our intelligence by means of language." Some of these linguistic analysts have had the project of getting rid of the disease in language by reducing language to purely operational terms. From the psychoanalytic point of view, a purely operational language would be a language without a libidinal (erotic) component; and psychoanalysis would suggest that such a project is impossible because language, like man, has an erotic base, and also useless because man cannot be persuaded to operate (work) for operation's sake. Wittgenstein, if I understand him correctly, has a position much closer to that of psychoanalysis; he limits the task of philosophy to that of recognizing the inevitable insanity of language. "My aim is," he says, "to teach you to pass from a piece of disguised nonsense to something that is patent nonsense." "He who understands me finally recognizes [my propositions] as senseless." Psychoanalysis begins where Wittgenstein ends. The problem is not the disease of language, but the disease called man. -- Norman O. Brown, Life against Death ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:44:44 +0000 Reply-To: Maria Villafranca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Villafranca Subject: open mike nyc tomorrow night! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dactyl Foundation for the Arts & Humanities 64 Grand Street (between West Broadway & Wooster) SoHo, NYC 212.219.2344 www.dactyl.org Open Mic/Emerging Poets Series Thursday, February 17, 2005 7-9pm $8 donation Drinks will be served. Open to all writers and the general public. Poets are encouraged to register: write Maria Villafranca at poetry@verseonvellum.com. There will be a short break in between the readings. Poets plan to read for about 10 minutes; 3 poems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:11:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: A Letter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit note: coney island white fish brooklyn slang for a prophylactic aka s--m bag ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:59:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Why does it take 5 editors to put together one issue of Big Bridge? Find out! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Brand New Big Bridge Vol 3 No 2 is online now! http://www.bigbridge.org =20 Feature Poetry Chapbook=20 =20 Parto by Louise Landes Levi illustrated by Nancy Victoria Davis =20 Poetry =20 Petra Backonja, Christina Butcher, Steve Finbow, Marie Kazalia, Kryna = McGlynn, Andrew Nightingale, Thomas Lowe Taylor, John Bloomberg-Rissman, = Mairead Byrne, Michael Gizzi, Michael Lally, George Manka, Simon Pettet, = Guatam Verma, James Brook, Ira Cohen, Lynne Hjelmgaard, Bill Lavender, = David Meltzer, Belinda Subraman, Lawrence Welsh =20 =20 Fiction & Non-Fiction Maggie Dubris, john colagrande jr, Patricia Christina Engel, Allan = Graubard, Kendra Dwelley Guimaraes, Gretchen McCullogh, Mark Mazer, = Rodney Nelson, Michael J. Vaughn Reviews Karl Young on Beat Thing by David Meltzer Jonathan Penton on Beat Thing by David Meltzer Allan Graubard on Chaos & Glory by Ira Cohen Bill Lavender on Normahl Welkings by Zac Denton and USA Patriot Acts = by Mark Prejsnar Bill Lavender on Elegies & Vacations by Hank Lazar John Lowther on Handbook of Inaesthetics by Alan Badiou Elegies =20 Joanne Kyger, Michael McClure, Anny Ballardini, Franco Beltrametti, = Bill Berkson, Bruce Covey, Ian Randall Wilson, Ray Craig, Maria Damon, = Pierre Joris, Jukka-Pekka Kervinen, Kevin Opstedal, Shin Yu Pai, Rodney = Koeneke, Marth L. Deed, Stacey Duff, Gwynne Garfinkle, Larry Kearney, = mIEKAL aND, Jeff Harrison, Mark Lamoureux, Sheila E. Murphy, Millie = Niss, Gerald Schwartz, Steve Shoemaker, JodiAnn Stevenson, Tony = Trigiliol, Stephen Vincent, Joel Weishaus, Frank Sherlock An Open Letter to America w/ Guest Editor Larry Sawyer =20 Anne Waldman, Micah Ballard, John Beer, Bill Berkson, Charles = Bernstein, Michael Castro, Neeli Cherkovsky, Steve Dalachinsky, Jeff = Encke, Hammon Guthrie, Amari Hamadene, Jack Hirschman, jUStin!katKO, = Tuli Kupferberg, Lina ramona VitKauskas, Michael McClure, Joel Weishaus, = Judith Malina & Hanon Reznikov, Tim Martin, David Meltzer, Jonathan = Penton, Jerome Rothenberg, Larry Sawyer, Charles Shaw, AD Winans, Danny = Shot, Ron Silliman, Dale Smith, Alan Sondheim, Chris Stroffolino, = ShaunAnne Tangney, Jeff Conant =20 Export: Writing the Midwest w/ Guest Editor Andrew Lundwall William Allegrezza, Petra Backonja, John M. Bennett, Kristy Bowen, = Garin Cycholl, Helyn Dell, mIEKAL aND, David Baratier, F. J. Bergmann, Robin Chapman, Larry O. = Dean, John Doe, Robert Klein Engler, Skip Fox, Caroline Gauger, Zlex = Gildzewn, Mark Kanak, jUStin!katKO, Tim Lane, Mark DuCharme, Clayton = Eshelman, Daniel Gallik, Michael Gause, Jesse Glass, Mary Kasimor, mark = s. kuhar, Kimberly Lojek, Ben Miller, Cynthia Plum, Andrew Lundwall, = Sheila E. Murphy, Charles P. Ries, Sam E. Robinson, Mark Spitzer, = ShaunAnne Tangney, Brian Thao Worra, Gerlad Schwartz, Jodiann M. = Stevenson, John Tyson Beat Meets East =20 Vernon Frazer Lucas Klein =20 Continuous Flame: A Tribute to Philip Whalen =20 Clark Coolidge on Philip Whalen Robert Creeley on Philip Whalen Donald Guravich on Philip Whalen David Meltzer on Philip Whalen =20 Art =20 Jose Manuel dos Santos Cross Pamela Dewey Cyrill Duneau Tom Ferguson =20 Recommended Reading I Like Your Eyes Liberty: Michael McClure and Terry Riley Eda: An Anthology of Contemporary Turkish Poetry: Murat Nemet-Nejat, = ed. Looking for a Sign in the West: Peter Tuttle Genesis, Structure, and Meaning in Gary Snyder's=20 Mountains and Rivers Without End:Anthony Hunt = (coming soon) ------------------------------------------------------------------ Editor: Michael Rothenberg Assitant Editor: Terri Carrion Contributing Editor: Jonathan Penton, Larry Sawyer, Andrew Lundwall Art Editor: Nancy Victoria Davis Webmaster: Jonathan Penton ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:23:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Wanda Phipps Reading in SoHo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Come Join Us: Monday, February 21st at 7pm. Miles Marshall Lewis (Akashic) Lee Stringer (Seven Stories) Wanda Phipps (Soft Skull) with Stephen B. Antonakos on guitar McNally Robinson Booksellers 50 Prince St (Mulberry/Lafayette) 212.274.1160 -- Wanda Phipps Wake-Up Calls: 66 Morning Poems my first full-length book of poetry has just been released by Soft Skull Press available at the Soft Skull site: http://www.softskull.com/detailedbook.php?isbn=1-932360-31-X and on Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/193236031X/ref=rm_item and don't forget to check out my website MIND HONEY http://www.mindhoney.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:50:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Jon Corelis - Can Poetry Liberate Language? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >I am interested this, too, except that I think it is a blind alley, an instance of someone saying they have found the "ding-an-sich," or a cry to find it. To my mind, Wittgenstein did not consign poetry to an endless repetition of the so-called real. What does he mean then by being caught like a fly in a box? This seems to be how his mantra that philosophy nothing but therapy for the delusions it creates. In any case, that is a broad generalization about the project Philosophical Investigations, a work that was never finished, and in any case is not written in the consecutive and consequential style of the Tractatus. By "consequential" do you mean important or logically connected? The PI is a case of analysis interminable. It does, however, start with an explosion of Wittgenstein's previous work and much of western philosophy back to Descartes. He says that a picture had us bewitched. By saying that, he is saying good-bye to a correspondence theory of truth and naive representationalism, the bulwarks of the quest for certainty. He is saying that language games are tautological. Because of that they are not about the world, They are illusions. But he himself is involved in a language game; that's why a fly in a box. Metaphysics (PI), a constant engine of tearing down of illusions through illusions. > >Instead, PI posits that language only can be understood as a game, or rather games. This does not mean that we are fully in charge or cognizant and--perhaps this is not Wittgenstein--the games don't change and evolve, " What does exactly "evolve" mean? Does the "old" inherently contain everything in the "new" or doesn't it? If it does not, then the system is not closed. If it does, then nothing "new" (therefore nothing) is being said. "...as humans evidently do. But Wittgenstein does seem to believe that getting beyond games--in a way that is certain, rather than simply speculative--is impossible." Yes, that's true. That's why he feels and senses caught like a fly. Wittgenstein makes empiricism (Locke, also the rationalizer of property) come face to face with its inherent contradictions (Marx). Tractatus and PI are works of empiricism in extremis. The real attack against this thinking does not come from Descartes but from Kant, Hegel, Heidegger, Benjamin, all believers in essences. The real attack on Wittgenstein, etal, is not that words have pictures which they represent; rather that, words (language) are part of a reality which they can not completely cover. Words and experience do not completely cover each other; they are not a perfect, tautological fit. In attempts to cross that gap (distance, imperfect fit) that language renews itself. "Now, if getting beyond the games is how poetry is to liberate language, well, I just don't get that. Language can never point to anything outside itself." All you are saying is that you can not disagree with Wittgenstein. "It is our reception of it and the full web of understanding that happens in a communicative that allows language to be a vehicle for meaning." One can equally look at Wittgenstein's view of language as a tool with generates (can generate) no meaning. > >Why not simply go back to Shelley and his belief that poetry reanimates the language of the tribe? What does Shelley have to do with Wittgenstein? "It gives us new expressions and sometimes, with it, new experiences. But to look in a language or in poetry for certainty, that I am afraid is a delusion." Who said one is looking at language for certainty. That's the point, it is full of uncertainty, insufficiency. "It is exactly the picture that bewitches." A good description of W.'s work, an attempt not to be bewitched which bewitches. Ciao. Murat > >Robert > >Mary Jo Malo wrote: >Jon, I'm extremely interested in this. Philosophical poetry and prose is >largely divided into two camps. Those who hope for this liberation and who have >a general idea of to what - and - those who don't, but who nevertheless use >language to make their point that there is no point to language. Mary Jo >=================== > >Trying to think through the Brown quote (given in my posting under the >subject >"The topic in a different light") in case anyone's still interested: >When Brown talks about "linguistic analysts [who] have had the project of >getting rid of the disease in language by reducing language to purely >operational terms," I think he's referring to theories of language which insist that >language has no meaning except what it's given by its context. In this view, >language is "purely" operational because it is atelic: it operates >without operating to any end; it works without working *for* anything; it >means without meaning anything in particular. Obviously this view is, or at >least is close to, the view of language which has subsequently become popularly >known as structuralist or post-structuralist. A poetics based on such a >view -- what I called a Witttgensteinian poetics -- will see the role of poetry >as being to liberate language from the delusory quality that >Wittgenstein attributed to it, in order to ... what? > >In order to do nothing. And this is the problem. The purpose of liberating >language should be to enable the poet to use it to reveal meanings which >can't >be revealed if language remains bound to what we deludedly call reality, if >the words remain locked in their nominalist prison. It's dream-work. Just >as >the psyche's dream-worker can only construct symbolic meaning by liberating >sensory images from their quotidian meaning, so the poet can only construct >meaning in a language which has been liberated from the delusion that it >represents our experience. Or to put it another way, words must be liberated >from their ordinary meanings before the poet is able to use them to construct >metaphors, and metaphor, as Aristotle said, is the essence of poetic genius. > >There are indeed times when a cigar is only a cigar, but the dream time, >whether of the psychic dream worker, the shaman, or the poet, >isn't one of them. >The result of a poetics that stops with Wittgenstein instead of beginning >with >him will be a poetry that offers nothing but a savor of the meaninglessness >of >the universe: it will be a poetry that turns the world into a kalaidescope >which it invites us to delight in passively like a baby reclining under a >fascinating jangling and shining crib toy. > >And from a psychoanalytic standpoint the profoundly infantile nature of such >a >poetry cannot of course be accidental. Reversion to infantile passivity is >the classic simple hysterical response to prolonged unbearable threat. The >constructors of such a poetry are acting as artists in spite of themselves, >imitating the action of the human self in a world which has made it >impossible >to live a human life. The unconscious message of such poetry is, "Please >don't hurt me." >===================================== >Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org >_www.geocities.com/joncpoetics_ (http://www.geocities.com/joncpoetics) >I offered the Norman O. Brown quote here because I thought it has a striking >and specific relevance to contemporary poetics. Brown wrote that some >"linguistic analysts have had the project of getting rid of the disease in >language by reducing language to purely operational terms." It seems to me >that some contemporary American poets have engaged in a similar project to >create a poetry which uses language purely operationally, and for the same >reason: as part of what Wittgenstein called philosophy's "battle against the >bewitchment [Verhexung] of our intelligence by means of language." > >I think that this project, as Brown also says of the project of the >linguistic >analysts he mentioned, will fail because it is impossible, and anyway would >be >pointless if it succeeded. As Brown says, "a purely operational language >would be a language without a libidinal (erotic) component; and >psychoanalysis >would suggest that such a project is impossible because language, like man, >has an erotic base, and also useless because man cannot be persuaded to >operate (work) for operation's sake." For "language" in the foregoing >sentence substitute "poetry," and you can take it as a critique of certain >current avant-garde poetics. >Poetry, like psychoanalysis, should begin where Wittgenstein ends. A >Wittgensteinian poetics will result only in an aridly endless restatement of >the problem, but what the poet must provide is a solution. >Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org >_www.geocities.com/joncpoetics_ (http://www.geocities.com/joncpoetics) >======================== >If, in the history of every child, language is first of all a mode of erotic >expression and then later succumbs to the domination of the >reality-principle, >it follows, or perhaps we should say mirrors, the path taken by the human >psyche and must share the ultimate fate of the human psyche, namely neurosis >... To regard human speech, the self-evident sign of our superiority over >animals, as a disease, or at least as essentially diseased, is for common >sense ... a monstrous hypothesis. Yet psychoanalysis, which insists on the >necessary connection between cultural achievement and neurosis and between >social organization and neurosis, and which therefore defines man as the >neurotic animal, can hardly take any other position. ... if psychoanalysis is >carried to the logical conclusion that language is neurotic, it can join >hands >with the twentieth century school of linguistic analysis -- a depth analysis >of language -- inspired by that man with a real genius for the >psychopathology >of language, Wittgenstein. He said, "Philosophy is a battle against the >bewitchment [Verhexung] of our intelligence by means of language." >Some of these linguistic analysts have had the project of getting rid of the >disease in language by reducing language to purely operational terms. From >the psychoanalytic point of view, a purely operational language would be a >language without a libidinal (erotic) component; and psychoanalysis would >suggest that such a project is impossible because language, like man, has an >erotic base, and also useless because man cannot be persuaded to operate >(work) for operation's sake. Wittgenstein, if I understand him correctly, >has >a position much closer to that of psychoanalysis; he limits the task of >philosophy to that of recognizing the inevitable insanity of language. "My >aim is," he says, "to teach you to pass from a piece of disguised nonsense to >something that is patent nonsense." "He who understands me finally >recognizes >[my propositions] as senseless." Psychoanalysis begins where Wittgenstein >ends. The problem is not the disease of language, but the disease called >man. > >-- Norman O. Brown, Life against Death > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:30:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Laura Hinton Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 14 Feb 2005 to 15 Feb 2005 (#2005-47) In-Reply-To: <200502152101.1d1hjd1Jc3NZFmR0@bunting.mail.pas.earthlink.n et> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable An Experimental Writers Series Announces a Fiction Reading by Renee Gladman Thursday, March 3, 5:30 p.m. The IRADAC Art Gallery NAC Room 5/202 The City College of New York 137th St. and Convent Avenue Harlem, New York * Free and open to the public. Renee Gladman is the author of Juice (Kelsey St. Press) and The=20 Activist (Krupskaya Press). She lives in New York=20 City. This event is funded in part by Poets & Writers, Inc. through a=20 grant it has received from Poets & Writers, Inc. Additional support may=20 be provided by the CCNY Student Organization The Poetry Gap. For=20 information on The Poetry Gap,contact Mimi Allin at mimi@renoun.net. For= =20 information on InterRUPTions reading series, contact Laura Hinton at=20 lhinton@ccny.cuny.edu. * DIRECTIONS: In Manhattan, take the 1/9 subway line to the 137th Street=20 (City College) Station. Walk up the hill to Amsterdam Avenue. Enter the=20 NAC (North Academic Complex) Building at the Amsterdam level south=20 entrance. Tell Security you are attending the poetry reading, and take the= =20 escalator up to the 5th Floor. Room 5/202 is at the top of the 5th-floor=20 escalator, the art gallery just inside to the left of the main door. At 12:00 AM 2/16/2005 -0500, you wrote: >There are 31 messages totalling 2363 lines in this issue. > >Topics of the day: > > 1. Pop.: 1 Plus 5,000 Volumes > 2. (no subject) > 3. The Internet in China > 4. the wigs of logico locos > 5. winter... > 6. SleepingFish wants your Meme Expressions > 7. Announcement: The English Lesson > 8. Our President Answers the Question: Duh!!! (4) > 9. The Blacklisted Journalist > 10. Osama Bin Laden And Taliban: Amnesty For U.S. Officials > 11. Two new publications (3) > 12. INFO: new york city--back to the future > 13. SF Event - Seen Missing: 2 New Films by Abigail Child > 14. Participatory Water Request > 15. Fwd: [silence] NEW SILENCE STORIES > 16. Desert City: Swensen & Vitiello: February 19th: Chapel Hill, NC > 17. [job] Instructor - Creative Writing / Poetry > 18. Fire Destroys Slam Planet Edit Suite > 19. Change in Plans: Sharon Mesmer Reading Tomorrow Night > 20. Gizzi, Wasserman, Champion, Feb 18, 7pm, NYC > 21. Catfish McDarris (4) > 22. Help NARAL kill babies (2) > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 00:14:41 -0600 >From: mIEKAL aND >Subject: Pop.: 1 Plus 5,000 Volumes > >COLUMN ONE >Pop.: 1 Plus 5,000 Volumes >The Nebraska town of Monowi has just Elsie Eiler left. She runs=3D20 >everything, including the library that was her late husband's bequest. >February 11, 2005 > >By Stephanie Simon, Times Staff Writer > >MONOWI, Neb. =3D97 Weeds twine around the disintegrating remnants of= the=3D20=3D > >water tower and sprout in a tangle through the floorboards of the=3D20 >grandest house in town. The Methodist church, gray with rot, slumps=3D20 >toward the frozen ground. An empty mailbox flaps open on a gravel rut=3D20 >that was once a road. > > The people of Monowi have died or moved =3D97 all but one: Elsie= Eiler.=3D20=3D > >Brisk and unsentimental at 71, she lives in the one home still fit for=3D20= =3D > >living in, a snug trailer with worn white siding. She runs the one=3D20 >business left in Monowi, a dark, wood-paneled tavern, thick with smoke. > > She also runs the library. > > The sign outside is painted on a section of a refrigerator door. The=3D2= 0=3D > >floor is bare plywood. There's no heat. But there are thousands upon=3D20 >thousands of books. "The Complete Works of Shakespeare." "Treasure=3D20 >Island." Trixie Belden and "The Happy Valley Mystery." Zane Grey's=3D20 >westerns, every one of them, lined up across two shelves. Homer.=3D20 >Tennyson. Amy Tan. Goethe. > > Elsie's late husband, Rudy, read them endlessly. He farmed and= tended=3D20=3D > >bar, he ran a grain elevator, he delivered gas to filling stations, and=3D2= 0=3D > >when the town was down to just him and Elsie, he served as mayor too.=3D20 >But he always found time to read =3D97 science fiction, history, the=3D20 >classics =3D97 anything but a Harlequin romance. > > When he got sick with cancer two years ago, Rudy confided a dream to=3D2= 0=3D > >Elsie: He wanted to turn his collection into a public library. > > Rudy ordered a custom-made building and set it a few steps from his=3D20 >home and his tavern. The Eilers' son, Jack, wired the lights, and=3D20 >friends built floor-to-ceiling shelves. But Rudy died in January 2004,=3D20= =3D > >before he could fill them. > > Five months later, his friends and family came together to pack the=3D20 >small white building with Rudy's books. Elsie estimates they shelved at=3D2= 0=3D > >least 5,000 volumes. > > Monowi, population 1, had its library. > > The farm kids who come tumbling into the tavern with their parents= run=3D20=3D > >up to the library now and again to paw through the magazines, looking=3D20 >for pictures of man-eating snakes. Friends visiting Elsie from the=3D20 >neighborhood =3D97 any town within 50 miles =3D97 stop by every few months= =3D >to=3D20 >browse. Rudy's younger brother Jim pulls his pickup to the library door=3D2= 0=3D > >and carts home stacks at a time. > > Monowi may be the smallest town in the nation with its own library.=3D20 >But the bounty of books here for the taking is very much in the spirit=3D20= =3D > >of rural America. > > Across the Great Plains, towns that have long since lost their=3D20 >schools, their banks and all hope of a future still keep their little=3D20 >libraries going. Volunteers open them for a few hours a week, waiting=3D20 >for readers to come down deserted Main Streets. > > Nearly 30% of the nation's libraries serve communities of fewer than=3D2= 0=3D > >2,500 people, including almost 3,000 libraries in towns where the=3D20 >population is measured in the hundreds. > > Because they run on volunteer labor, making do with the books at= hand,=3D20=3D > >rural libraries survive even in tight times like these, when big cities=3D2= 0=3D > >are shutting branches. In California, John Steinbeck's hometown of=3D20 >Salinas (population 150,000) has announced plans to close all of its=3D20 >libraries by April to save money. But it's still possible to check out=3D20= =3D > >a book in Gaylord, Kan. (population 97), and Strang, Neb. (population=3D20 >38). > > In Monowi, Elsie keeps the key to the library hanging in the tavern.=3D2= 0=3D > >She's there 12 or 14 hours a day, frying up egg sandwiches for the=3D20 >farmers and hunters and construction workers who stop by for lunch at=3D20 >any random hour they're free. "Go on up and take a look," she'll urge. > > Rudy's Library is less than 350 square feet. The books are worn,=3D20 >disorganized and eclectic beyond description. > > It's impossible not to linger. > > Here's "Ivanhoe," by Sir Walter Scott, next to "Jaws 2." Mark= Twain's=3D20=3D > >collected works sit side by side with "Dancer of Dreams" by Patricia=3D20 >Matthews, touted on the cover as "America's First Lady of Love."=3D20 >(That's one of the few Rudy likely never opened.) > > "How to Get Filthy Rich, Even If You're Flat Broke" recommends= reading=3D20=3D > >obituaries so you can assume a dead man's identity to throw creditors=3D20 >off the hunt. "Adventures in Science with Doris and Billy" =3D97 circa =3D >1945=3D20 >=3D97 advises: "If you could fly in an airplane to the moon, you might=3D20 >reach it in about 100 days." > > Copies of Reader's Digest date back to 1950; National Geographic, to=3D2= 0=3D > >1953. A local newspaper from 1941 bears the front-page news that Rose=3D20 >Karel's tonsillectomy went well. > > The library runs on the honor system: Take what you want, return it=3D20 >when you can. > > "You just have to look around till you find something you want to=3D20 >read," Elsie says. "You'll probably run across something you're not=3D20 >thinking of." > > Seven-year-old Shelby Micanek comes by after school one frosty=3D20 >afternoon, drawn to the children's corner. She has two books at home,=3D20 >she says proudly, both Dick and Jane, one with a yellow cover, one with=3D2= 0=3D > >a blue. > > In Rudy's Library, she's looking for a book about animals. > > Shelby pulls out a textbook about mammals, flips through it eagerly,=3D2= 0=3D > >then frowns. Too many words. She wanders down the shelf, picking out=3D20 >books at random. "Look at this big one!" she calls out, wonder in her=3D20 >tone. "This would take a long time to read!" She's holding Webster's=3D20 >Unabridged Dictionary. > > Over in the corner, first-grader Cade Kalkowski is staring at a=3D20 >National Geographic photo of a banana slug, entranced. Then he spots a=3D20= =3D > >hardcover book and drops the banana slug with a shriek. "Killer sharks!=3D2= 0=3D > >I want this one!" Cade runs back to the tavern to show his dad. Shelby=3D20= =3D > >follows, clutching "Zoo Babies." > > Rudy collected these books over a lifetime in love with the printed=3D20 >word. > > "He always said he never read any book but he didn't learn from it,"=3D2= 0=3D > >Elsie says. > > Though he had more books than he could finish, Rudy prowled estate=3D20 >sales and thrift shops, always looking for more. When a community four=3D20= =3D > >towns over closed its school, he bought out the whole library =3D97 two=3D2= 0 >pickup loads of outdated textbooks and teen novels. As Elsie puts it:=3D20 >"He was forever buying something for a little bit of nothing." > > The subject didn't matter to him, as long as it wasn't straight=3D20 >romance. In his last year, he spent hours reading a seed catalog, cover=3D2= 0=3D > >to cover. > > "Out here in the sticks, we don't have a lot of things to do,"=3D20 >explains Barb Weeder, a friend. > > "So if you find something you like to do, you do a lot of it," Elsie=3D2= 0=3D > >adds. > > Tavern patrons got used to seeing Rudy's books piled every which= way,=3D20=3D > >under the 50-cent bags of chips or on top of the bar, or over by the=3D20 >collection of beer steins painted with Clydesdale horses. Elsie reads=3D20 >too. She loves historical novels. But in 49? years of marriage, she=3D20 >never could catch up to Rudy. > > He always had two or three books going at once, and if he really= liked=3D20=3D > >one, he'd put it on his list to re-read through the long, still nights=3D20= =3D > >of a prairie winter. > > "He always said you were never locked in one place when you read=3D20 >books. You could be under the ocean or exploring space or shooting=3D20 >cowboys and Indians in the desert," says the Eilers' daughter, Rene=3D20 >Lassise, who was named after a character in one of Rudy's beloved=3D20 >westerns. > > Rudy did most of his exploring through books. He spent three years= in=3D20=3D > >France with the Air Force after high school. Then he and Elsie lived in=3D2= 0=3D > >Omaha for six months while he finished up his military obligation. But=3D20= =3D > >as soon as they could, the Eilers moved back to Monowi, where they had=3D20= =3D > >met in the one-room schoolhouse on the hill when he was in fourth grade=3D2= 0=3D > >and she was in third. > > This is rugged territory, a good three-hour drive from Omaha. The=3D20 >folding hills are good for pasture or for growing alfalfa, and not much=3D2= 0=3D > >else. Even at its peak in the 1930s, Monowi had fewer than 150=3D20 >residents and measured perhaps three blocks by four blocks. When Elsie=3D20= =3D > >and Rudy bought the tavern in 1971, the population was down to 22. > > But community is broadly defined out here. > > It's nothing to drive a half-hour or more to drop in on a neighbor.=3D20 >The local FM station keeps everyone up to date on the gossip from two=3D20 >counties: "That big 5-0 birthday bash was well attended, and Mike was=3D20 >definitely surprised=3D85. " > > And so, even as Monowi withered, even as their two children grew up=3D20 >and moved away, Rudy and Elsie never felt alone. > > Monowi remains an incorporated town because there's no reason to=3D20 >dissolve it. Elsie grants herself her own liquor license, collects=3D20 >taxes from herself =3D97 "it's a matter of cents, really" =3D97 and keeps = =3D >the=3D20 >books. > > Every year, Elsie has to approve a municipal road plan to receive=3D20 >Monowi's share of state transportation funds, which she sends to the=3D20 >county to maintain the two-lane highway that runs past her tavern. > > A Notice of Public Hearing is duly posted in the tavern, announcing= an=3D20=3D > >upcoming meeting on the road plan for all citizens of Monowi to voice=3D20 >"support, opposition and/or suggestions." The meeting is to be held "at=3D2= 0=3D > >the usual place." Elsie figures it won't last long. > > When the state sends her paperwork, "I just sign wherever it needs= to=3D20=3D > >be signed: mayor, secretary, treasurer," Elsie says. "They know I'm the=3D2= 0=3D > >only one up here." > > On busy days, a few dozen customers will stop by the tavern for a= beer=3D20=3D > >or a T-bone steak or a $3 platter of gizzards. Now and then, a reader=3D20 >will come in. > > Beth Davy drove 12 miles from her home along the Missouri River= bluffs=3D20=3D > >with her daughter and her grandkids last summer. They spent three hours=3D2= 0=3D > >rummaging through the shelves, finding treasures. > > The other day Davy was back, returning a novel she had borrowed and=3D20 >plucking a new one from the shelf at random, with an air of=3D20 >expectation. " 'Walking Through the Dark,' " she said, reading off the=3D20= =3D > >cover. "Sounds like a mystery." She wrote her name and the title in a=3D20 >notebook up front, to let Elsie know she was taking it home. > > Elsie means to put the books in order one day. But there's a part of=3D2= 0=3D > >her that likes how they are now, helter-skelter. > > There's a proper library an hour's drive away, in O'Neill, with= 28,500=3D20=3D > >volumes, a computerized card catalog and dozens of magazines laid out=3D20 >alphabetically, from Air & Space to Workbench. > > That's the place to go if you need a book. Rudy's Library is where= to=3D20=3D > >go if you love them. > > >http://www.latimes.com/news/custom/showcase/la-na-library11feb11.story > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 01:18:30 EST >From: Nathaniel Siegel >Subject: (no subject) > >I believe that there are no red or blue states. >Let's not turn on each other or make another a color. >Look for the view, the point of view, not the hue. >Simplicity breeds contempt. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 22:31:55 -0800 >From: Jim Andrews >Subject: The Internet in China > >An excerpt from Perry Link's fascinating review of He Qunglian's book 'How >the Chinese Government Controls the Media'. The below is reproduced without >permission but with respect. It appeared in the February 24, 2005 issue of >The New York Review of Books (pages 38-39) -- http://nybooks.com > >ja >http://vispo.com > >************************** > >The Internet, which has grown explosively in China, has become the biggest >obstacle to the government's control of information. In 1997 the country >had about 620,000 Internet users; today there are about 80 million,= whether >they use home computiers or frequent the "Internet caf=E9s" on the streets. >E-mail--flexible, fast, and unorganized--is the most frustrating medium the >Party has ever confronted. > >But if the problem has been large for Chinese officials, so are their >efforts to control it. In 1996 the government started issuing proclamations >forbidding the use of the Internet to circulate information objectionable= to >the regime, but it soon realized that this was futile. He Qinglian= describes >how, beginning in 1998, the Ministry of State Security recruited a great >many young university graduates with high-tech skills to monitor and= control >the Internet. Today there are thousands of them surfing the Web in search= of >anti-Party opinions. Anmesty International has estimated that there are= some >30,000 but no one outside the system knows for sure. When they find >something they want to suppress they have a number of choices. If the >offending Web site is foreign, they can block it, either temporarily or >permanently, and sometimes can edit it electronically. If the Web site is >domestic, they can issue a warning or they can close it down, a practice >more common during "sevsitive periods" like the run-up to a Party congress >or to an anniversary of the 1989 Tiananmen massacre. In early 2003, during >the SARS cover-up, forty-two of Google's one hundred most frequently= visited >sites were blocked in China. > >If electronic methods fail, the police can be sent to deal with the >offending blogger. Then the sanctions become essentially the same as for >work in print: "rectifications," fines, confiscation of money and= equipment, >closings, and in extreme cases, arrests. Of sixty-nine people throughout >the world listed by Reporters Without Borders as in jail for using the >Internet, sixty one are in China, where most of them have been charged with >"subversion" and given sentences ranging from two to twelve years. Four >Internet offenders, all from Falun Gong, have died in prison. > >And yet even these measures have not been enough to control the Web. >Electronic cat-and-mouse games continue between bloggers and the regime. In >recent months the government has added psychological weapons to its offense >in an effort to induce Web users to srart policing one another and, by >generating fear, to make people censor themselves. > >In Auguest 2002 new regulations required that Web publishers in China have >organizations, bylaws, and an editorial system in which they assign a >"responsible editor" to supervise each article they publish. In form these >rules only bring Web publishers into line with print and other publishers. >But the real intent was to ban personal Web sites. Now at least two people, >and usually more, must be collectively accountable for what any one of them >does on the Internet, and hence each has an incentive to watch the others >and prevent their mistakes. Similar techniques of enforcing collective >responsibility have ancient roots in China, and were much used during the >Mao years. > >Moreover, Web sites are being held responsible not only for their own >postings but those of all chat room visitors; managers are therefore= obliged >to stand in for the government, monitoring and censoring what gets posted. >Managers of Internet caf=E9s can be punished if any of their customers= sends >or receives illicit messages. During the "sensitive periods," caf=E9s and= Web >sites thus ask their visitors to be careful, to "please cooperate," and so >on. He Qinglian points out that this system tends to encourage a perverse >assumption in the minds of all concerned, namely, that if someone does= "make >a mistake" and precipitate a shutdown, the calamity is the fault of that >person, not the government. > >In early 2004 the government set up a new chinese Center for Informing on >Illegal and Harmful Information, which hugely expanded the possibilities= for >anyone, anywhere, to report bad thinking to the Chinese police by sending= an >email to jubao@china.org.cn ( net.china.cn/chinese/index.htm ). "Jubao" >means "informing". If you want to attack your enemies, however, it is >illegal to do so anonymously. Another recent rule for the Chinese Web says >that surfers must use their real names, a requirement that naturally >strengthens the Web user's "self-discipline". In March 2003 the government >asked Internet service providers in China to sign on voluntarily to a >"Public Pledge of Self-Discipline for the China Internet Industry". About >three hundred providers, Yahoo among them, did so. > >In her conclusion He Qinglian touches on the most sensitive question of all >when she analyzes the term "state security," which is used by the regime to >justify its efforts to block news from reaching the public. The regime also >claims that popular elections above the village level will not work because >the suzhi (quality, character) of the people is too low. The masses are >ignorant, and would be too easily swayed by passion or bias. Therefore,= they >coninue, we, the masters of the regime, have to be in control. The logic is >not only humiliating to the Chinese people but oddly circular: we must, the >regime says, run things in our own repressive way because the people are >ignorant, and the people are ignorant in large part because we keep them >from being informed. The result is described as "stability". But the lesson >of He Qinglian's book is that it is the security of the dictatorial system >itself that is at stake. > >*************************** > >Concerning He Qinglian's work, see >http://www.google.com/search?q=3DHe+Qinglian > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 23:34:49 -0800 >From: Ishaq >Subject: the wigs of logico locos > >What are the politricks of words, kid >A cardboard on sidewalks cut up >By windmills for 360=92s >By boys beaten by breaks >Note to the baggy letters >Wrote to go >K=E9 >Songs about things you cyan see >-rebellology >w/mi cora aniki >walkinin paths that are pitch black >like the wigs of logico locos >I see >Joey >wouldn't drive a harley >Sink low into >hot water >depth >perception >2 dimension >a stall =3D laggin then quick >crack a spine >privacy >my invasion >massive contusions >-when I die >I holla >More watts >Out of my throat >My kids life sent in packages >Noteless >Choose the heads to tell >It in rhymes of unsolid >Visions >Twistin the body flop >Elegant transition/from whirl >To 90 degrees to backs in turtle shell formation >Woht drops stumble >Down faces >Marks taken to bridges/ >Killers dirt nap riddims >Over fluid bottoms >Assassins with holes in they chest >Shruggin off jinns >Whose holes, what are worlds deep, >Widen >Hurry the >Transformation > From a >Plea to x=92s on backs and cheeks >Resistence also. >1sees >1 chain made Cuban >Conjunctions >Link >Ludwig to >Move >Meant to be tied to this place >a stall =3D laggin then quick >Pulling kicks down to matts >In gyms they fight the d=E6mons >Sent to Resevation & barrios >Who embrace them (me) >Sonics >Massive >A kin to hercs in ghettos >(they read my note books too.) >1for1 >And figure the stooge > From distances >Like goldfish >Trapped in loops >(how do u rate this?) >(dig the rep points) >=85a characteristic throw down/come change up=85 >a hustle runs from chambers to johnson to yates >from cyan see in the morning to til cyan see in the late >wohts writtin on walls >will correct the symbols found in your skullz >it=92s reversal of thesis >a rhythmic tractus >trippin on 2.171 to .19 >to goose steps >translated and loss in the bloody wells >ameri/euro/afrique >7 passing in silence >watchin the high rollers deal graphics >collectives/club houses >soundtracks of ian dury gon a spastic >it's like this >fleets form the click >a cholo throwin sets >in broken calo, asian & arabic >this is my vicinity >the square held nervous >the locos braves and fellows >tripped to the word form logic > > > > > > > >1426 Lawrence Y Braithwaite (aka Lord Patch) >New Palestine/Fernwood/The Hood >Victoria, BC > > >___\ >Stay Strong\ >\ > "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ >--Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ >\ >"This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ >of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ >--HellRazah\ >\ >"It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ >--Mutabartuka\ >\ >"As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ >our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ >actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ > - Frantz Fanon\ >\ >"Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ >-Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ >\ >http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ >\ >http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ >\ >http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=3Dbraithwaite&orderBy=3Ddate\ >\ >http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ >\ >} > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 04:17:46 -0500 >From: Harry Nudel >Subject: winter... > >. .. >.. ... > >... .... >.... ..... > >a aa >aa aaa > >aaa aaaa >aaaa aaaaa > > >Dawn....a...aaa....a... Drn... > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 05:55:09 -0500 >From: Derek White >Subject: SleepingFish wants your Meme Expressions > >8888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888 > >The submission period for the next issue of SleepingFish 0.75 is now open. > >The motivating theme is meme expression... is "a meme a meme a meme" a= meme? >You tell me. > >Full guidelines at: >http://www.sleepingfish.net/submit.htm > >Also, to whet the appetite, my 5=A2ense on Norman Lock's fantastic "A= History >of the Imagination": >http://sleepingfish.net/5cense/norman_lock_history.htm > >Looking forward to your memes, > >Derek White >www.calamaripress.com >www.sleepingfish.net >www.5cense.com > >8888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888 > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 08:44:30 -0500 >From: Halvard Johnson >Subject: Announcement: The English Lesson > >The English Lesson by Halvard Johnson in a limited edition >of signed, numbered copies is now available from > > Unicorn Press, Inc. > 201 North Coulter Drive > Bryan, Texas 77803 > >The price is $12.95 US (including shipping). > >"The English Lesson" would be an anthropologist's delight >and a reader's feast even without Halvard Johnson's remarkable >ear. But its music, the composer's attention both global and >local, charges the poem with a story more visceral than its found >source can account for: > > I am very glad > It gives me pleasure > It give me great joy. > > --Wendy Battin > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 09:23:07 -0500 >From: Vernon Frazer >Subject: Re: Our President Answers the Question: Duh!!! > >Considering the praise John Cage has received on this List, I'm surprised >that some are so short-sighted as to insult our beloved and inspiring= leader >in his most innovative moments. Cleary, this statement transcends its >surface appearance of incoherence. Bush, in point of fact, is furthering >Cage's work by creating constructs that can only be described as >"spontaneous linguistic indeterminacy." > >Vernon Frazer >http://vernonfrazer.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On >Behalf Of alexander saliby >Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 10:50 AM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Our President Answers the Question: Duh!!! > >I know you will all want to calculate the impact of the social security >changes >on you and your families based on this "lucid" analysis spoken by our >president >as he attempted to answer a question from a woman in his audience. > >Subject: The NEW Social Security > > >WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: I don't really understand. How is it the new [Social >Security] plan is going to fix that problem? > >GEORGE W. BUSH: "Because the -- all which is on the table begins to address >the big cost drivers. For example, how benefits are calculated, for= example, >is on the table. Whether or not benefits rise based upon wage increases or >price increases. There's a series of parts of the formula that are being >considered. And when you couple that, those different cost drivers, >affecting those -- changing those with personal accounts, the idea is to= get >what has been promised more likely to be -- or closer delivered to what has >been promised. Does that make any sense to you? It's kind of muddled. Look, >there's a series of things that cause the -- like, for example, benefits= are >calculated based upon the increase of wages, as opposed to the increase of >prices. Some have suggested that we calculate -- the benefits will rise >based upon inflation, as opposed to wage increases. There is a reform that >would help solve the red if that were put into effect. In other words, how >fast benefits grow, how fast the promised benefits grow, if those -- if= that >growth is affected, it will help on the red." > > -- Dubya explains the virtues >of his Social Security plan, Tampa, Florida, Feb. 4, 2005 > >Now, is this pure poetic use of the language or what? > >Alex > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 08:33:52 -0600 >From: mIEKAL aND >Subject: Re: Our President Answers the Question: Duh!!! > >Now if only he would honor us with 4 minutes & 33 seconds of silence. > > >On Feb 15, 2005, at 8:23 AM, Vernon Frazer wrote: > > > Considering the praise John Cage has received on this List, I'm > > surprised > > that some are so short-sighted as to insult our beloved and inspiring > > leader > > in his most innovative moments. Cleary, this statement transcends its > > surface appearance of incoherence. Bush, in point of fact, is > > furthering > > Cage's work by creating constructs that can only be described as > > "spontaneous linguistic indeterminacy." > > > > Vernon Frazer > > http://vernonfrazer.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 09:43:33 -0500 >From: furniture_ press >Subject: Re: Our President Answers the Question: Duh!!! > >"spontaneous linguistic indeterminacy" is what his car is running on, and= t=3D >his guy's huffing the backwash, aka, carbon auraloxide. > >www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae > >--=3D20 >_______________________________________________ >Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net >Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for= just=3D > US$9.95 per year! > > >Powered by Outblaze > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:45:14 +0100 >From: Anny Ballardini >Subject: The Blacklisted Journalist > >DEAR FRIENDS AND READERS, > >This is to let you know that the new issue of THE BLACKLISTED=3D20 >JOURNALIST, COLUMN 114, dated February 1, 2005 is now on the web. To=3D20 >take a look, click on http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj =3D20 > >SECTION ONE:=3D20 >http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column114.html GREEN HAVEN=3D20 >CORRECTIONAL INSTITUTION, 4TH FLOOR. In this first chapter of Alex=3D20 >Zola's new novel, Perfect Accidents, the protagonist, a newspaper=3D20 >reporter, witnesses a botched execution. Alex himself has written on >a=3D20 >similar subject in his piece, EXECUTION STORY, in COLUMN 49 at=3D20 >http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column49e.html=3D20 > >SECTION TWO:=3D20 >http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column114a.html BOOK REVIEW:=3D20 >GUANT=3DC1NAMO: WHAT THE WORLD SHOULD KNOW by Michael Ratner and Ellen >Ray=3D20 >Chelsea Green Publishing Company 184 Pages. Jules Siegel tells us the=3D20 >book confirms instances of torture of detainees by American captors. > >SECTION THREE: >EMAIL PAGE ONE: >http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column114b1.html LUCIEN CARR, >79,=3D20 >A BEAT GENERATION ORIGINAL, IS DEAD. An e from Jim Walck gives us the=3D20 >Reuters obit. Yeah, I knew Lucien. > >SECTION THREE: >EMAIL PAGE TWO: >http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column114b2.html RAMBLIN' JACK=3D20 >VISITS AUSTRALIA. An e from Stan Jarin asks us to imagine his >surprise=3D20 >when his lifelong hero comes to stay at his house in Melbourne for a=3D20 >month. CHERYL LIKES MY BOBBY DARIN BOOK. She sends an e telling how=3D20 >much she appreciated reading BOBBY DARIN WAS A FRIEND OF MINE. JODY=3D20 >SAYS MY 'BOB DYLAN AND THE BEATLES' IS A GREAT READ headlines an e=3D20 >from JodyDenberg. Tell your friends about the book. It ought to be a=3D20 >best-seller. > >SECTION THREE: >EMAIL PAGE THREE: >http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column114b3.html THAILAND'S=3D20 >EPIDEMIC OF SEVERED PENISES. An e from Khun Wayne, who spends a lot >of=3D20 >time in that country, tells us that reattaching severed penises has=3D20 >become a big medical industry in Thailand.=3D20 > >SECTION FOUR: THE LITERARY LINKS SECTION: Links to THE ALLEN GINSBERG=3D20 >ORGANIZATION, THE RITA DOVE website, THE PETER COYOTE website; THE=3D20 >MCCLURE-MANZAREK website; the AMERICAN LEGENDS website; Anny=3D20 >Ballardini's POETS CORNER and we now add altweeklies.com, which is a=3D20 >comprehensive compilation of stories from various alternative=3D20 >newspapers from around the country! > >SECTION FIVE: THE MOVIE SECTION: THE RITZ FILMBILL. Synopses of=3D20 >foreign, independent and Hollywood movies. > >SECTION SIX: THE MUSIC SECTION, features the usual links to=3D20 >SONGSCENTRAL, PURR, POWER OF POP, all contemporary music e-zines; THE=3D20 >CELEBRITY CAF=3DC9, all about celebrities; the BABUKISHAN DAS BAUL=3D20 >website; and EAR CANDY. > >SECTION SEVEN: THE ADVERTISING SECTION, offers 13 pages of ads from=3D20 >Earwraps; Cleveland International Records; Richard X. Heyman;=3D20 >Christopher Pick; J. Crow's Milled Cider; An Advertisement for >Myself;=3D20 >Tommy Womack, Compliments of a Friend; Zoe Artemis invites you to=3D20 >literary retreat in Greece; Richard Dettrey, who will help you with=3D20 >your shopping; BABY ON THE WATER by Tsaurah Litzky; BOB DYLAN AND THE=3D20 >BEATLES; and Arrogant Prick T-shirts.=3D20 > >Would you, too, like to help keep THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST on the=3D20 >Internet? For a nominal contribution, you can have your own=3D20 >advertising page in the Advertising Section of THE BLACKLISTED=3D20 >JOURNALIST. Simply send us an email to find out about particulars. > >There are links to friendly sites and we also feature MARK PUCCI'S=3D20 >ONLINE REVIEWS, originally edited by John Williams. >Hope you read and enjoy.=3D20 >Best, Al Aronowitz > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 09:47:52 EST >From: Joe Brennan >Subject: Osama Bin Laden And Taliban: Amnesty For U.S. Officials > > Click here: The Assassinated Press >http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ > >Taliban Says U.S. Ready for Reconciliation: >Osama Bin Laden And Taliban To Grant Amnesty To U.S. Officials, Waive War >Crimes Tribunal: >Inability To Control Any Real Estate Other Than The Narrow Graveyard Around >Karzai's Palace In Kabul Prompted Latest U.S. Capitulation: >Bin Laden Set To Address Congress In March. >By SNUFFY GRAM > >Cheney: "No New Iraqi Government Without Allawi Or Another Thug We Like.": >Despite Poor Showing In Elections CIA Asset's Bloc To Play Important Role= In >Any Iraqi Coalition: >"I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go theocratic >because of the irresponsibility of its own people," Warns Rumsfeld.: >"Look. It's Their First Time Getting Fucked American Electoral Doggy= Style," >Says Negroponte.: >Rumsfeld Twice Offered To Resign Because He Thought Cheney Was Going To= Make >Him Stop Torturing People. "Where the fuck did Rummy get that impression?" >Cheney Scratches. >By CROSS TOMBMASON > > > >They hang the man and flog the woman >That steal the goose from off the common, >But let the greater villain loose >That steals the common from the goose. > >".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in >the >sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful >language >of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or >hypocritical, >whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The= dominating >impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a= prescribed >good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is= poured > >forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the= slaughter >house. >One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first >giving >free reign to this hubbub of voices...." > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 10:19:27 -0500 >From: Alan C Golding >Subject: Two new publications > >I wanted to let everyone know about the first two publications in the >critical series that I co-edit with Lynn Keller and Dee Morris for the >U. of Wisconsin Press. Clicking on the URLs should get you straight to >the appropriate page on the UW website, and to ordering information. >(Unsurprising tip: they're cheaper through Amazon.) > >Paracritical Hinge >Essays, Talks, Notes, Interviews >Nathaniel Mackey >312 pp. 6 x 9 2 illustrations >ISBN 0-299-20400-6 Cloth $65.00 s >ISBN 0-299-20404-9 Paper $24.95 s > http://www.wisc.edu/wisconsinpress/books/2600.htm > >Jorie Graham >Essays on the Poetry >Edited by Thomas Gardner >328 pp. 6 x 9 >ISBN 0-299-20320-4 Cloth $65.00 s >ISBN 0-299-20324-7 Paper $24.95 s >http://www.wisc.edu/wisconsinpress/books/3590.htm > >Alan Golding > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 10:45:03 -0500 >From: Halvard Johnson >Subject: Re: Our President Answers the Question: Duh!!! > >{ Now if only he would honor us with 4 minutes & 33 seconds of silence. > >And, in response, we could all chant "4 more minutes! 4 more minutes! >4 more minutes!" > >Hal "Quis ipsos custodes custodiet?" > --Juvenal > >Halvard Johnson >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >email: halvard@earthlink.net >website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard >blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 07:50:00 -0800 >From: Ishaq >Subject: INFO: new york city--back to the future > > >>INFO: new york city--back to the future >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >Back to the Future: Clive Davis Department of Recorded Music at NYU > >Revisits Landmark Hip Hop Album >Rapper Chuck D and members of Public Enemy join film director Brett >Ratner and a host of critics, producers, engineers and executives for >seminar exploring The Making of Public Enemy's "It Takes A Nation Of >Millions To Hold Us Back" > > > > >On Friday, February 25 and Saturday, February 26 a two-day seminar at >New York University (NYU) will examine the making of what music critics >and hip hop aficionados widely regard as one of hip hop's seminal >albums, Public Enemy's It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back. >The 1988 Def Jam recording was a critical and commercial success, >spinning off the controversial singles "Don't Believe the Hype" and >"Bring The Noise." The album made stars of MCs Chuck D and Flava Flav >and ushered in an era of political rap often referred to as the "golden >age" of the genre. The seminar, sponsored by NYU's Clive Davis >Department of Recorded Music, will feature a documentary film of Public >Enemy's 1988 and 2002 tours of Great Britain as well as panel >discussions on the making of the album and the political climate that >inspired the artists. All events will be held at NYU's Tischman >Auditorium (40 Washington Square South between McDougal and Sullivan) >and are free and open to the public. > > > >"Nation of Millions was one of the most important albums of its time. >The lyrics were hard-hitting and confrontational and the music was >visionary. It captures an era in which a certain type of politics was >possible," says Jason King, organizer of the event and associate chair >of the Clive Davis Department of Recorded Music. "This seminar will be >the first time that many of the players -- the producers, engineers, the >artists -- have been together since 1988. We'll explore their memories >of the making of the music and find out what's happened to them. >They've all gone on to big things." > > > >On Friday, February 25, the seminar gets underway at 6:00 p.m. with the >film screening, "Public Enemy: London Calling." The documentary film, >directed by Lathan Hodge, is a work-in-progress that follows Public >Enemy's British tour and features never-before-seen footage of the >group's performances. That same evening, beginning at 7:45, a panel of >top journalists and critics who covered the era will discuss the music >legacy of Public Enemy and It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us >Back. Participants include Robert Christgau, Nelson George, Vivien >Goldman, John Leland, Alan Light and Jon Caramanica. > > > >On Saturday, February 26 at noon, the first panel of the day will >feature members of the Def Jam and Rush Arts teams -- the creative staff >behind the album's A&R, publicity, management and marketing. >Participants include film director Brett Ratner (Rush Hour) -- who got >his start directing Public Enemy's first video, "Louder Than a Bomb" -- >as well as Bill Adler, Lisa Cortes, Charlotte Hunter, Biff Warren, Kelly >Haley and others. The day continues with "On Hip Hop and Political >Activism: A Conversation with photographer Glen E. Friedman and author >and activist Jeff Chang" (1:45 p.m.). Friedman, the author of Fuck You >Heroes and The Idealist, photographed and designed the album's cover. >Chang is the author of the new book Can't Stop Won't Stop: The History >of the Hip Hop Generation. At 3:30 p.m., the panel "Producing The >Album" will bring together the album's original engineers, the owners of >the Greene Street studio (where the album was cut) and members of the >Bomb Squad production team for the first time since 1988. Participants >include Rod Hui, Steve Loeb, Nick Sansano, Chris Shaw, Hank Shocklee, >Keith Shocklee and Chairman Mao. > > > >The seminar's final panel, "Revolutionary Voices" (6:00-8:00 p.m.), >features the members of Public Enemy. Public Enemy frontman Chuck D >joins surprise guests in a reflection on their experiences in the making >of the legendary album. > > > >"Whether you're nostalgic for political music or old school hip hop, or >whether you just want a behind-the-scenes look at how great records are >produced, this is a terrific opportunity," says King. > > > >"The Making of Public Enemy's It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us >Back" is a presentation of NYU's Tisch School of the Arts in association >with African Heritage Month, Shocklee Entertainment and Scratch Magazine >(a leading magazine for hip hop DJs and producers). All events are held >at Tischman Auditorium on the NYU campus (40 Washington Square South, >between McDougal and Sullivan), and are free and open to the public. >Picture ID will be required to enter the building. For more information >please contact 212-992-8405. > > > >The Clive Davis Department of Recorded Music officially opened its doors >in September 2003. It is the first program of its kind to offer artistic >training to aspiring record producers and music executives toward a BFA >(Bachelor of Fine Arts) degree in Recorded Music. Students not only >learn to produce records in a state-of-the art recording facility, they >also study the business and craft of music production (A&R, songwriting, >music publishing, radio, film and new media) as well as the history and >culture of popular music. > > > >The program bears the name of its patron and chief advisor to the >program, Clive Davis. Mr. Davis explains his rationale for funding this >program as such: "I've felt for many years that serious, career-minded >students of recorded music should have their own school, just as film >aspirants have had and benefited from for decades." > > > >The Clive Davis Department of Recorded Music is also the first to offer >concentrated courses in R&B and hip hop production (as well as rock and >pop) toward a BFA degree. > > > >The Department of Recorded Music is part of the Tisch School of the >Arts, one of the nation's leading centers of undergraduate and graduate >study in the performing and media arts. The school's alumni consist of >many of the country's leading film directors, Broadway producers and >writers, as well as theater historians and critics. > > > >### > > > > >Gwendolyn Quinn >GQ Media & Public Relations, Inc. >1650 Broadway >Suite 1011 >New York, New York 10019 >212-765-7910 (office) >212-765-7905 (fax) > > > > >-- >Stay Strong\ >\ > "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ >--Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ >\ >"This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ >of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ >--HellRazah\ >\ >"It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ >--Mutabartuka\ >\ >"As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ >our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ >actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ > - Frantz Fanon\ >\ >"Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ >-Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ >\ >http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ >\ >http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ >\ >http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=3Dbraithwaite&orderBy=3Ddate\ >\ >http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ >\ > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 11:41:42 -0500 >From: konrad >Subject: SF Event - Seen Missing: 2 New Films by Abigail Child > > {please pass this on to any Bay Area interestees > or poetry or film announcement-lists -- thanks!} > >Sunday February 20th, 2005 7:30 PM >Timken Hall, California College of the Arts >1111 Eighth Street, near Wisconsin & 16th >San Francisco > >SF Cinematheque presents >Seen Missing: Two Premieres >Abigail Child In Person > >New York poet, essayist and filmmaker Abigail Child documents >how filmmakers' illuminate how our personal movies narrate our >political history. She will join us for a talk and discussion as >well as to screen two of her tapes which recently premiered at >the New York Film Festival. > >"The Future is Behind You" retells the story of two sisters >buffeted by the tides of fascism, using personal 16mm archives >of a German Jewish family from the 1930s accompanied by the >music of John Zorn. > >"Cake and Steak" mines proud parents' home movie footage to >examine the visual details of 1950s Americans training for a >life in the suburbs. > >Child will also contextualize her aesthetic anthropology by >screening Alexander Kluge's "Brutality in Stone: Eternity in >Yesterday" a poetic documentary from 1961 on the architectural >residue of the Third Reich, and showing D.W. Griffith's unedited >camera reels in an elegant deconstruction of his invention of >cinematic narrative before the First World War. > > >sfc@sfcinematheque.org >415-552-1990 >http://www.sfcinematheque.org/ > >Program curated by konrad steiner > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 09:09:47 -0800 >From: Francis Raven >Subject: Participatory Water Request > >I am working on a manuscript of poems about water and was hoping members of >the list could help. > >To help, please > >(1) fill a cup with water >(2) drink that water >(3) describe the taste of the water using 2 - 8 words >(4) write these words down >(5) send me these words via backchannel email > >thanks so much, >all and only my very best, >Francis > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 12:58:23 -0600 >From: mIEKAL aND >Subject: Fwd: [silence] NEW SILENCE STORIES > >Begin forwarded message: > >From: Ralph Lichtensteiger >Date: February 15, 2005 12:54:24 PM CST >To: Silence >Subject: [silence] NEW SILENCE STORIES > >NEW SILENCE STORIES by Miekal And, John M. Bennett, Anne Bichon, >Stephanie Boisset, Arthur Chandler, Thanos Chrysakis, Lowell Cross, A. >P. Crumlish, Alvin Curran, James Drew, Karlheinz Essl, Raymond >Federman, Jesse Glass, Peter Gutmann, Martin Hawes, August Highland, >Justin Katko, Matthias Kaul, Richard Kostelanetz, Tamara Lai, Ian S. >Macdonald, Harry Polkinhorn, Friedhelm Rathjen, Lothar Reitz, Kathleen >Ruiz, Mike Silverton, Beat Streuli, Lawrence Upton, Dan Waber, Louise >Waller, Sigi Waters (soon), John Whiting ... > >http://www.lichtensteiger.de/stories02.html > >kind regards, >ralph lichtensteiger >lichtconlon@t-online.de >To join or leave the Silence mail list, please go to >https://list.mail.virginia.edu/mailman/listinfo/silence. >You can find searchable list archives at >http://list.mail.virginia.edu/pipermail/silence/ > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:08:55 -0500 >From: Ken Rumble >Subject: Desert City: Swensen & Vitiello: February 19th: Chapel Hill, NC > >Please spread far and wide......... > >Who: Cole Swensen, Finalist for the 2004 >National Book Award in Poetry for her book >_Goest_, author of 9 other collections of >poetry, translator of some of the best of >contemporary French poetry, a faculty member >at the Iowa Writers' Workshop, also famous >for building a life-size model of Big Ben out >of America Online CDs. > >Who: Chris Vitiello, author of _Nouns Swarm >a Verb_, survivor of the Lucipo roadshow, >rumored to be the head of a theatre group >whose existence is itself rumored to be a rumor. > >What: Desert City Poetry Series, when you >care to hear the very best. > >When: This Saturday, February 19th, 8:00pm, >2005. > >Where: Internationalist Books, 405 W. >Franklin Street, Chapel Hill, North Carolina. > >Why: "I've / always / wanted / said the >painter // and so he did" "Am I supposed to >write that it rained? // One, two, three, >four, five, six // What rained?" > >See you there....... > >Next Month Two Readings: > >March 19th: Tara Rebele & Brian Henry >March 26th: Kent Johnson & Patrick Herron > >*Internationalist Books: >http://www.internationalistbooks.org > >*Desert City Poetry Series: >http://desertcity.blogspot.com > >*Cole Swensen: >http://www.nationalbook.org/nba2004_cswensen.htm > >*Chris Vitiello: http://the_delay.blogspot.com > >Contact the DCPS: Ken Rumble, director: >rumblek at bellsouth dot net > >"TRILOGY" >by Cole Swensen > > >One > > > I > > >The guard peers closely >at the painting. Count. > > >The fingers. The figures. The >strange sweep from waist > > >to chest to head. His hand reaches out >within a second of > > > > II > > >She sweeps upward. Up >to where the gold sky might > > >What would the touch >if it did not first > > >run up against >a man who is in the end a man > > > > III > > >She touched the painting >as soon as the guard > > >turned his back. Respond. >I said turn around. I > > >screamed, I drowned, I >thought you were home. > > >I touched the surface of the canvas. >It was I, the sound of salt. And fell >and is still falling through a silent earth. > > > > >Two > > > I > > >A deep red in the sky that has nothing >to do with the season but quiets > > >Outside drinking coffee and wine and watching. >Look, he's speaking, leaning over to his >neighbor. > > >Look how the lines around his eyes and mouth. >Fleet. Part. What of that. Replies. > > > > II > > >She crosses the square in a bright red coat. >Look how they look at her, look up > > >from their talking. There is no thought >here of leaving. There is no thought. > > >There are people crossing the square >arm in arm, in threes and fours and alone in >great numbers. > > > > III > > >Joseph Albers, THE INTERACTION OF COLOR, >1975. I've heard >that no one is ever repeated or ever >precisely named. > > >She took the coat off the peg. >Even to herself, she said it was her own. > > >She crosses the square on her way home. >She will not stop at a cafe, she will not >talk, she will just go home. > > > > >Three > > > I > > >The minute progressions between grey and black >becoming one against the red that stares back. > > >Because she knows they are watching, she will >not turn around. >Home is a sound repeated to solid, to >something that will hold. > > >Look, there goes a man with his left hand >left lightly >on the head of his child. There they go. > > > > II > > >In the painting, all the reaching hands are >growing. >In the gallery, everything was green and gold >and red > > >Made the sun, though deep, cut through: >Within the door was a window; within the >window, a jar. > > >Inside the jar, carefully there, the love >need not be >assigned in order to fix and ignite. > > > > III > > >She had to cross the square in order to get home. >She was one. And one by one, they looked up >and watched. > > >When the guard turned around, the gesture was >gone. >A woman stood back and said no. > > >She stood back, looking at the painting and >said isn't it fine >that a woman wearing red could arrive at a >gold sky. Remind. >Or else in falling. And nothing broke. The rift >shifts open the devout. A finger that >exceeded number, a >fingertip. > > >from _Irresponsibility_ >by Chris Vitiello > > >Late November into early December 2004 >Shenandoah, VA >Harrisonburg, VA >Springfield, VA >Washington, DC >Durham, NC > > >Grackles bathe where the drainage >terminates // Typical pull // Pulling so into > // Between >the low Winter Sun and me >Before the low Winter Sun, their splashes >illuminate > >He leaf-blows in church clothes > >There really are grackles > >Grackles splash a fray >in the drain divot pool behind >which the Sun sets // Position makes this >appearance // Giving >up is never correct >The whitespace goes negative // Choice of >negation >Event-specific sets of by what >The oak leaves appear brassy >Undoing aper=E7u > >The grate has sunken askew // Here=92s why // >Gerunds > are now >That school addition is unornamented and, in >backlit > shadow, >flat > >Shuttle > >Iris and Gracie console imaginary horses >A storm threatens // They argue >beneath a lopsided oak >Win it word by word is problematic >Carriage returns > >Cadiot: I will do something to someone >The school building rear >looks like a factory contains >also is a factory // Is >Not an implication but a container >His behavior appears portioned and metaphorical >to me as >if he thinks he is being read >A container contained by what it contains >What=92s in Firdos Square now? >Argument is the game >It >Grackles bathe and drink in >a drainage pool >Winter Sun setting linear behind >These 2 things, but 1 thing > >Making an argument is a surface > >Exploitation instructs > >This coat does nothing > >I know that the dogwood is completely red >though I cannot see > it from here > >Arafat=92s dead // So=92s Michelle > >=93What=92s different now?=94 >versus =93Can it be unwritten?=94 >Only the parts of his body move that >he needs to // He does 1 thing >Miles Davis: =93Paraphernalia=94 > >The grackles, the water, their splashing, the >sunlight >through the splashing >I=92m in the plenum too >Iris and Gracie try the swings again >is experience-determined duration >This book is set in 12-point type >I wonder if I=92m still alive > >The container, the surface, the contents, the >whitespace, the characteristics, the >durations attached to these >Hocquard: Does writing allow someone to see >better? >And the words, obviously >Pursuit is pushing and we have >those 2 words // Little gravelly hill >is one way of saying >little gravelly hill >Thank you Hocquard >Once demarcated, how different should/could >the items be? >He makes shit and carbon-dioxide > >The saturated soil sank so unintentional berm > >(As I write this) Iris tells Theresa to say >=93No, no it isn=92t=94 > // Theresa says it >Geometric equipment and what isn=92t? >Cobra is a system not a composition >Albiach: would their word be transmitted > >That lopsided oak likely lost its crown in >ice storms >Vicki and I married and Rabin was assassinated >Iris guesses pronunciation at vowels >A signal is a sub-signal < This with this > or this without this > >Returning to the grackles is >different from returning to Firdos Square // >One symmetry >displaces another >Royet-Journoud: eye pursues its prey / >shelters behind > another phrase >The Fallujah offensive is replay and slow-motion >at here // Bettis=92s subtlety >Is it information or does it contain information? >Evie=92s rectangle > >The coverage of the taxi explosion >shows the exploded taxi > > >Until she gets it right > > >Nothing elapses at now > > >Vicki calls from earlier in time > > >The cartoons did their jobs and were declared >heroes > > >The magical rain brings the tree to life > > >Neither vacuum nor plenum is a negation > >I=92m getting tough // Poetry is invisible > >The red dogwood leaves hang directly at the >ground >in angled clusters around the base of the >nude depleted buds > >The Periodic Table lapses into abominations >One name is as good as another >Amber=92s detachment >Minimal and essential, snakes >The projector completely blocks the light source > between each frame >Nothing=92s haphazard and I don=92t expect >the dots to be connected // Iris says >=93The pinks almost rhyme=94 > >Snakes do >not elaborate >Sunset is a lie > >By naming the suspension of judgment you >are missing the point >There were no single grackles // The >understood it >Grackles is singular > >Each dogwood leaf is mottled with blacks, browns, > and reds // Veins >are yellowish implies the green they were in >Spring >White, dried blotch perimeters >Lack of end-punctuation is a characteristic // > Characteristic has of >I agree they=92re red > >They were probably starlings >It turns out >The noun is a process > >I can see three flags from here >Her remote control trees all on the same >frequency >Devendra Banhart: =93Nice People=85=94 >One thing is not any thing > >Vicki moved and everything moved // Vicki >moved everything > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 05:05:20 +0800 >From: derekrogerson >Subject: [job] Instructor - Creative Writing / Poetry > >Location: Philadelphia >Contact: mailto:cflores@sas.upenn.edu or 215.823.5288 > >Compensation: $20/hr (Part-time) > > >The Penn Alexander Community School (http://www.upenn.edu/ccp/pascs/) is >seeking weekly instructors who are available Monday through Thursday >between 6:00 and 8:00 PM (e.g. Mondays 7:00 PM or Wednesdays 6:30 PM). >We will consider proposals for the same class to meet twice per week >(e.g. Mondays and Wednesdays, 6:00 PM). > >We are looking to start with a six-week session beginning Monday, >February 28 and ending Thursday, March 17, 2005. We are willing to >extend the number of weeks based on demand. > >The Penn Alexander Community School offers an hourly rate of $20 to all >instructors. The entrance to the school is located on the corner of 43rd >and Locust Streets (across from CVS). > >To become an instructor, contact Clara Flores at your earliest >convenience at (215) 823-5288 or via email at cflores@sas.upenn.edu. > >Instructors are needed for creative writing or poetry writing for >adults. > > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:14:07 -0500 >From: Brian Clements >Subject: Fire Destroys Slam Planet Edit Suite > >Dear POETICS list, > >I'm forwarding this unfortunate news from Mike Henry, co-director of Slam >Planet, a documentary-in-progress. I'll be making a donation to help them >recover some of their material, and I hope you will consider doing the >same. > >Brian Clements > >Hey everyone, > >Hope this finds you well. As most of you know, for the last year and >a half, I've been serving as Co-Director for Slam Planet: War of the >Words, a feature-length documentary about poetry slam. Two weeks >ago, a huge fire destroyed our edit suite. > >The losses were devastating and we're looking at a long, difficult >road to rebuild our operation and pay specialists to recover media on >our hard drives and tapes which suffered extensive heat, smoke, and >water damage. > >I'm sure I don't need to tell you how deeply I believe in Slam >Planet, and the work of the poets in our film. I'm more dedicated >than ever to making a great movie, but I need your help to shoulder >this enormous financial burden. > >Anything you can give will mean the world to me and to the poets in >our film. Don't think that your few dollars won't make a difference. > It will. And most of all, please forward this message to anyone who >you think might be interested. If you have any questions at all, >please feel free to contact me at mike@slamchannel.com. > >If you'd like to help: > >1. Donations are being accepted via PayPal. >2. If you're new to PayPal, it's very easy. Only takes a few minutes. > >3. The email address for our account is slamplanetfund@yahoo.com > >Or, if you'd like to send a check, the address is: > >Slam Planet Support Fund >c/o Slam Channel >500 San Marcos, Suite 102 >Austin, TX 78702 > >With my thanks and love, > >mike henry >Co-Director / Slam Planet, and >Slammaster, Austin TX > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 18:38:48 -0500 >From: Poetry Project >Subject: Change in Plans: Sharon Mesmer Reading Tomorrow Night > >Dear everyone, > >David Meltzer is not able to make the trip to New York to read tomorrow >night, alas, and we will miss him..... > >However, Sharon Mesmer has graciously come to our rescue, and will be >reading with Bruce Andrews. Should be a great night, and we=3DB9d love to= see >you. > >XO=3D20 > >Poproj > >Wednesday, February 16, 8:00 pm >Bruce Andrews & Sharon Mesmer >Bruce Andrews is the author of over two dozen books of poetry and >performance scores, most recently Lip Service and The Millennium Project >(online at www.princeton.edu/eclipse). His essays on poetics are collected >in Paradise & Method and are also online at the Electronic Poetry Center.= H=3D >e >is Music Director for Sally Silvers & Dancers, and teaches Politics at >Fordham University. Sharon Mesmer has two short fiction collections >forthcoming this year: In Ordinary Time, from Hanging Loose Press, and Ma >Vie A Yonago, from Hachette Litteratures, France, in French translation.= He=3D >r >two previous collections are Half Angel, Half Lunch (poems, Hard Press) and >The Empty Quarter (stories, Hanging Loose Press). She writes a seasonal >column for the French magazine Purple, and teaches graduate and >undergraduate fiction and literature courses at the New School. In 1999,= sh=3D >e >was the recipient of a New York Foundation for the Arts fellowship in >poetry. > =3D20 > > > > >The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery >131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue >New York City 10003 >Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. >info@poetryproject.com >www.poetryproject.com > >Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now >those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all >regular readings). > >We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance >notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:33:16 EST >From: Brenda Coultas >Subject: Gizzi, Wasserman, Champion, Feb 18, 7pm, NYC > >Dear poets and friends, > >This is just a friendly reminder that CUE will be hosting a reading by >Michael Gizzi, Jo Ann Wasserman and Miles Champion this coming Friday,=20 >February >18th, from 7-9pm at CUE. Please RSVP by either replying to this email, or= =20 >calling >us at the number below to reserve a seat for the event. A flyer with= details >is attached to this email. > >We look forward to seeing you all here. > >kind regards, >Sandhini > >Sandhini Poddar >Gallery Co-ordinator >CUE Art Foundation >511 West 25 Street >New York, NY 10001 > >Tel: 212 206-3583 >Fax: 212 206-0321 >www.cueartfoundation.org > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:48:50 -0800 >From: Richard Taylor >Subject: Re: Two new publications > >The book "the Para Critical Hinge" by nathaniel Mackey looks interesting >but what is "serial poetics" - similaryr to "seral music" ? and "diasporic >syncretism"? > > > "to the emancipatory potential of collaborative practices; from serial >poetics to diasporic syncretism; " > > >I suppose all would be revealed with the book itself but ..just wondering= - >idont need such a book (indeed - what do we need?) but it looks >interesting... > >I boought abook on long poems by women etc by Lyn Keller (she is very= astute >critic and writes well) from - via ADD ALL - a steo up from my= photocopying >the entire book by Jerome McGann (I surrender!! I'll come quietly= Ossifer!!) >called The Visible Language of Modernsim which is a facinating book - its >neatly in my folder - but that was a big job copying that - > >(Just about feel I should have been paid for doing that....) > >But Ive forgotten a lot of it - should have read it when I was young - >things stay in one's mind then...I mean I should have been young when i= read >it which is impossible becaue i was.. >nearly 50! So I wasnt young , therefore I was old and...well I was older >than when I was young and could remember much more better.... > >One spin off -in reading critical works i have sometimes said - that's an >interesting idea - I'll use that in my poems or a comment by a critic has >inspired a poem etc - the best critical wods can be re-read a lot. > >I suppose this is all a bit "fatuous" or "redundant" ..oh well...thought >Pooh bear..its a funny life under a little cloud that just appearified. > > (Poor old Pooh was always getting muddled -was a "serial" something you >ate - and what were paratrooptters doing in a book? these were some of the >silly ideas Pooh kept thinking of...) > >(I am now ~14.4 stone multiply by 6.35 to kilogrammes) > >Method - walk each day and exercisse during the day - also eg halve or >quarter the amount of potatoes etc in my meals and eat apples and other >fruit etc rather than so much toast - use water crackers instead of toast= or >bread or have only one bread intead of two - keep a jar of water in the >fridge rather than use those "sachets (mostly sugar they are) with a bit of >lemon etc (use milk instead of Yoghurt) - concentrate my mind on getting >healthy and fit as an interesting project - like a game/hobby -make it a >pleasant challenge and a game.... > >Richard Taylor > >Auckland - New Zealand > >richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz > >Poet ("Well..." ) / Chess Addict (partly recovered) /Was 15 stone - working >on it -/ Grandfather/ BA /NZCE/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: > >--------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice >cream."---------------------- > >ASPECT BOOKS www.abebooks.com >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Alan C Golding" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:19 AM >Subject: Two new publications > > > >I wanted to let everyone know about the first two publications in the > > critical series that I co-edit with Lynn Keller and Dee Morris for the > > U. of Wisconsin Press. Clicking on the URLs should get you straight to > > the appropriate page on the UW website, and to ordering information. > > (Unsurprising tip: they're cheaper through Amazon.) > > > > Paracritical Hinge > > Essays, Talks, Notes, Interviews > > Nathaniel Mackey > > 312 pp. 6 x 9 2 illustrations > > ISBN 0-299-20400-6 Cloth $65.00 s > > ISBN 0-299-20404-9 Paper $24.95 s > > http://www.wisc.edu/wisconsinpress/books/2600.htm > > > > Jorie Graham > > Essays on the Poetry > > Edited by Thomas Gardner > > 328 pp. 6 x 9 > > ISBN 0-299-20320-4 Cloth $65.00 s > > ISBN 0-299-20324-7 Paper $24.95 s > > http://www.wisc.edu/wisconsinpress/books/3590.htm > > > > Alan Golding > > > > > > -- > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > > > > > > >-- >Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:58:00 -0500 >From: David Baratier >Subject: Re: Catfish McDarris > > >>he killed himself alive? > >Yes, Catfish is like the inverse ditty >Marianne Moore invented for Raid; >unless it was an imposter forging >his handwriting for future fame >from death. > > >Be well > >David Baratier, Editor > >Pavement Saw Press >PO Box 6291 >Columbus OH 43206 >USA > >http://pavementsaw.org > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 02:03:58 -0000 >From: Ron Silliman >Subject: Help NARAL kill babies > >Dear Friend, > >I hope you take a moment to fight the the Right-To-Life Movement >by killing an unborn baby--yours, or perhaps a friend's--this >Valentine's Day. > >Show the unborn who's boss this holiday season. After all, it is >your convenience, your wealth and comfort that are important: >not those of an unborn child who knows nothing about life yet. >By keeping the population down, we increase access to the >world's precious resources by people that count (the born) >through a simple, nearly invisible act of slaughter. > >Please join NARAL in this important cause. Thank you. > > >http://prochoiceaction.org/campaign/open_letter_salon?rk=3D3d_G_LS11memW > >*********************************** >Powered by GetActive Software, Inc. >Relationship Management for Member Organizations (tm) >http://www.getactive.com >*********************************** > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 02:19:08 -0000 >From: Harry Nudel >Subject: Re: Help NARAL kill babies > >What wind doth blow... >Ides of Feb... >Et tu, Ronny? > >At least maybe they'll sign... > >http://prochoiceaction.org/campaign/open_letter_salon?rk=3Ddp_G_L911memW > >*********************************** >Powered by GetActive Software, Inc. >Relationship Management for Member Organizations (tm) >http://www.getactive.com >*********************************** > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 18:33:44 -0800 >From: Stephen Vincent >Subject: Re: Catfish McDarris > > > > > Yes, Catfish is like the inverse ditty > > Marianne Moore invented for Raid; > >Marianne Moore? >"Raid Kills Bugs Dead" >was a tagline created by Lew Welch, >while, I think, he was a young "copywriter" >in Chicago. Lew's thesis at Reed College >in the early Fifties was on the work of >Gertrude Stein. You can see here >how she provided him with certain resources. >In 1957 or 58 Marianne Moore >created the name "Edsel" for a new model Ford. >Sadly the Edsel was killed dead in the market >by American consumers. "Oversexed" - that >particular vertical oval cavity in the grill - >was considered one of the reasons why. >Once upon a gothic time I created a bumpersticker, > "Bodyguards Make Better Lovers" >in honor of Patty Hearst and Susan Ford, >both of whom, or Patty, at least, married >one of their bodyguards. Unlike Lew >Welch or Marianne Moore I did not get paid much, >in fact nada. But, at the time, 1976, >it was kind of a comment. > >Stephen V > http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:57:59 -0500 >From: ALDON L NIELSEN >Subject: Re: Two new publications > >serial poetics not the same as serialism in music (though it comes around= to >that later in the persons of Enslin and Taggart) -- composition in series,= see >Olson, Duncan and so forth -- > >On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:48:50 +0000, Richard Taylor wrote: > > > The book "the Para Critical Hinge" by nathaniel Mackey looks= interesting > > but what is "serial poetics" - similaryr to "seral music" ? and= "diasporic > > syncretism"? > > > > > > "to the emancipatory potential of collaborative practices; from serial > > poetics to diasporic syncretism; " > > > > > > I suppose all would be revealed with the book itself but ..just=20 > wondering - > > idont need such a book (indeed - what do we need?) but it looks > > interesting... > > > > I boought abook on long poems by women etc by Lyn Keller (she is very=20 > astute > > critic and writes well) from - via ADD ALL - a steo up from my=20 > photocopying > > the entire book by Jerome McGann (I surrender!! I'll come quietly=20 > Ossifer!!) > > called The Visible Language of Modernsim which is a facinating book -= its > > neatly in my folder - but that was a big job copying that - > > > > (Just about feel I should have been paid for doing that....) > > > > But Ive forgotten a lot of it - should have read it when I was young - > > things stay in one's mind then...I mean I should have been young when i= =20 > read > > it which is impossible becaue i was.. > > nearly 50! So I wasnt young , therefore I was old and...well I was older > > than when I was young and could remember much more better.... > > > > One spin off -in reading critical works i have sometimes said - that's= an > > interesting idea - I'll use that in my poems or a comment by a critic= has > > inspired a poem etc - the best critical wods can be re-read a lot. > > > > I suppose this is all a bit "fatuous" or "redundant" ..oh well...thought > > Pooh bear..its a funny life under a little cloud that just appearified. > > > > (Poor old Pooh was always getting muddled -was a "serial" something you > > ate - and what were paratrooptters doing in a book? these were some of= the > > silly ideas Pooh kept thinking of...) > > > > (I am now ~14.4 stone multiply by 6.35 to kilogrammes) > > > > Method - walk each day and exercisse during the day - also eg halve or > > quarter the amount of potatoes etc in my meals and eat apples and other > > fruit etc rather than so much toast - use water crackers instead of=20 > toast or > > bread or have only one bread intead of two - keep a jar of water in the > > fridge rather than use those "sachets (mostly sugar they are) with a bit= of > > lemon etc (use milk instead of Yoghurt) - concentrate my mind on= getting > > healthy and fit as an interesting project - like a game/hobby -make it a > > pleasant challenge and a game.... > > > > Richard Taylor > > > > Auckland - New Zealand > > > > richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz > > > > Poet ("Well..." ) / Chess Addict (partly recovered) /Was 15 stone -= working > > on it -/ Grandfather/ BA /NZCE/ General Layabout and Sometime= Bookaphile: > > > > --------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice > > cream."---------------------- > > > > ASPECT BOOKS www.abebooks.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Alan C Golding" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:19 AM > > Subject: Two new publications > > > > > > >I wanted to let everyone know about the first two publications in the > > > critical series that I co-edit with Lynn Keller and Dee Morris for the > > > U. of Wisconsin Press. Clicking on the URLs should get you straight= to > > > the appropriate page on the UW website, and to ordering information. > > > (Unsurprising tip: they're cheaper through Amazon.) > > > > > > Paracritical Hinge > > > Essays, Talks, Notes, Interviews > > > Nathaniel Mackey > > > 312 pp. 6 x 9 2 illustrations > > > ISBN 0-299-20400-6 Cloth $65.00 s > > > ISBN 0-299-20404-9 Paper $24.95 s > > > http://www.wisc.edu/wisconsinpress/books/2600.htm > > > > > > Jorie Graham > > > Essays on the Poetry > > > Edited by Thomas Gardner > > > 328 pp. 6 x 9 > > > ISBN 0-299-20320-4 Cloth $65.00 s > > > ISBN 0-299-20324-7 Paper $24.95 s > > > http://www.wisc.edu/wisconsinpress/books/3590.htm > > > > > > Alan Golding > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > > > > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > >Aldon L. Nielsen >Kelly Professor of American Literature >The Pennsylvania State University >116 Burrowes >University Park, PA 16802-6200 > >(814) 865-0091 > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:14:18 -0600 >From: Maria Damon >Subject: Re: Catfish McDarris > >i thought it was lew welch > >At 8:58 PM -0500 2/15/05, David Baratier wrote: > > >>he killed himself alive? > > > >Yes, Catfish is like the inverse ditty > >Marianne Moore invented for Raid; > >unless it was an imposter forging > >his handwriting for future fame > >from death. > > > > > >Be well > > > >David Baratier, Editor > > > >Pavement Saw Press > >PO Box 6291 > >Columbus OH 43206 > >USA > > > >http://pavementsaw.org > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:14:57 -0800 >From: Hugh Steinberg >Subject: Re: Catfish McDarris > >Actually, Moore didn't come up with the name Edsel. She was invited by=20 >Ford to name the new car >but the company decided to name the vehicle after Henry and Clara Ford=92s= =20 >only child, Edsel. > >Hugh Steinberg > --- Stephen Vincent wrote: > > > > > > > Yes, Catfish is like the inverse ditty > > > Marianne Moore invented for Raid; > > > > Marianne Moore? > > "Raid Kills Bugs Dead" > > was a tagline created by Lew Welch, > > while, I think, he was a young "copywriter" > > in Chicago. Lew's thesis at Reed College > > in the early Fifties was on the work of > > Gertrude Stein. You can see here > > how she provided him with certain resources. > > In 1957 or 58 Marianne Moore > > created the name "Edsel" for a new model Ford. > > Sadly the Edsel was killed dead in the market > > by American consumers. "Oversexed" - that > > particular vertical oval cavity in the grill - > > was considered one of the reasons why. > > Once upon a gothic time I created a bumpersticker, > > "Bodyguards Make Better Lovers" > > in honor of Patty Hearst and Susan Ford, > > both of whom, or Patty, at least, married > > one of their bodyguards. Unlike Lew > > Welch or Marianne Moore I did not get paid much, > > in fact nada. But, at the time, 1976, > > it was kind of a comment. > > > > Stephen V > > http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. >http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > >------------------------------ > >End of POETICS Digest - 14 Feb 2005 to 15 Feb 2005 (#2005-47) >************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:34:03 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Cupboard Feudal Song, With Several Of True Letters Mixed In Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed what you carry in your clothes is not gold, driver, it's bones in my ledgers the State is so hot for, officer, each blunder is made by only five bales of bread bread blunders of orange ouch, vast, vast is the relenting dent... of that dent: I'm in this, & in brass & waltz-like of malignity, tho I called for something light, driver, you'll leaf razzle, rust and pocket this grows, out, map, out & into files... driver, whose visible groves were these? the missing accident daughter? well, then, her leaps MUST have been impenetrable... there was more than one? surely a couple of them at least will top this writing with wish words who half in kicks grow skill - hist!, someone rouses my syllables: wind my names up, you seaward grudge, you kissing-foot thing, move along now, missing accident daughters, your speech is live, mine is reluctant willows, Herr B's is flowers in hand... flowers & hand: they, the flowers, love hand? missing accident daughters, here your pieces roam to ghost that low form of Herr Bibliothekarius, so this poem's sudden guest can dream his eye chirps Logic's sun instead of Curiosity's eyes... oh, & here you'll think understanding away, Sirens ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 19:33:33 -0500 Reply-To: tyrone williams Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: 4' 33" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "seen" on public television betrays the mistrust you note...DeBord, where art thou? tyrone -----Original Message----- From: Aldon Nielsen Sent: Feb 16, 2005 2:26 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: 4' 33" one of the more over the top performances was seen on a public television broadcast years ago -- a piano was placed in heavy traffic (round it was, and of a port in air) in, I think maybe Boston Common or Cambridge -- whichever, you get the idea -- of course it worked, but I wondered at the time about the many renditions of this that deliberately put themselves in the way of as much noise as possible, almost as if not trusting to the composer and the audience and the ambience -- At 01:53 PM 2/16/2005, you wrote: >Yes. It was probably Tilbury who first performed it in UK. I always found >the fact that both names begin with T confusing ;) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Glenn Bach > > Sent: 16 February 2005 16:37 > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: 4' 33" > > > > > Well it's true that it got its first peformance by a pianist (John > > > Tilbury?), who I believe marked the beginning and end by > > raising and > > > lowering the lid. I think there are other versions scored for other > > > ensembles. > > > > I'm on digest mode, so I don't know if anyone else brought > > this up, but it was David Tudor who first performed 4'33" at > > a concert in Woodstock. > > The piece is in three parts, and Tudor lowered and raised > > the lid of the keyboard to signal the beginnings and endings > > of each movement. > > > > There are actually several versions of the score, one of them > > including instructions to the musicians with one of my > > favorite words, "TACET." > > > > An interesting website of research behind the piece and its > > development and performance: > > http://music.research.home.att.net/4min33se.htm > > > > G. > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "and now it's winter in America" --Gil Scott-Heron Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 [office] (814) 863-7285 [Fax] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:42:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: from britpo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Improvised Music and Poetry:- Saturday 19 Feb From 8PM=20 At the Old Queens Head, Pond Street, Sheffield Stunning music and poetry Beck +Hession - Mick Beck, tenor sax, bassoon, whistles Paul Hession, drumset And Geraldine Monk - readings =A35 waged, =A33 unwaged The Beck/Hession duo is legendary for focus and power. Together they = can knock an audience sideways. Spiky or humorous, compelling, fluent = they offer the best of abstract free and dangerous driving. If that = doesn't work, they go head over heels, plunging into uncharted waters, = or end up in a ditch. The international poet Geraldine Monk's writings and readings are of = world renown. A provocative mixture of the random, the alien and the = familiar. For further information, phone or email Mick Beck on Sheffield 258 4999, = ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:51:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Why does it take 5 editors to put together one issue of Big Bridge? Find out! Comments: cc: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics In-Reply-To: <008e01c51473$0b408720$d8cce704@MICHAEL> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Even if I have a piece in the Big Bridge, I am not going to hold back from a hearty congratulations to Michael Rothenberg (back from the burn!) and his four associate editors for putting together a great issue, made the more so by the fact of its very readable, attractive design. I do believe Michael and company are really working out the graphic issues that make the web a genuine medium for the visual (design/typographic) challenge of "reading on line." Compared to this - yes, what you are reading - Bridge is pure visual / 'lisable' luxury. Just getting into much of it. Joanne Kyger's elegy for Don Allen is quickly worth the non-price of cracking the 'http://www....' Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com Where 'Crossing the Millennium, 1999" is currently courting 'cosmetic heraldry' as found in persons, places & things. > The Brand New Big Bridge Vol 3 No 2 is online now! > > http://www.bigbridge.org > > Feature Poetry Chapbook > > Parto by Louise Landes Levi illustrated by Nancy Victoria Davis > > Poetry > > Petra Backonja, Christina Butcher, Steve Finbow, Marie Kazalia, Kryna McGlynn, > Andrew Nightingale, Thomas Lowe Taylor, John Bloomberg-Rissman, Mairead Byrne, > Michael Gizzi, Michael Lally, George Manka, Simon Pettet, Guatam Verma, James > Brook, Ira Cohen, Lynne Hjelmgaard, Bill Lavender, David Meltzer, Belinda > Subraman, Lawrence Welsh > > > Fiction & Non-Fiction > > Maggie Dubris, john colagrande jr, Patricia Christina Engel, Allan Graubard, > Kendra Dwelley Guimaraes, Gretchen McCullogh, Mark Mazer, Rodney Nelson, > Michael J. Vaughn > > Reviews > > Karl Young on Beat Thing by David Meltzer > Jonathan Penton on Beat Thing by David Meltzer > Allan Graubard on Chaos & Glory by Ira Cohen > Bill Lavender on Normahl Welkings by Zac Denton and USA Patriot Acts by Mark > Prejsnar > Bill Lavender on Elegies & Vacations by Hank Lazar > John Lowther on Handbook of Inaesthetics by Alan Badiou > > Elegies > > Joanne Kyger, Michael McClure, Anny Ballardini, Franco Beltrametti, Bill > Berkson, Bruce Covey, Ian Randall Wilson, Ray Craig, Maria Damon, Pierre > Joris, Jukka-Pekka Kervinen, Kevin Opstedal, Shin Yu Pai, Rodney Koeneke, > Marth L. Deed, Stacey Duff, Gwynne Garfinkle, Larry Kearney, mIEKAL aND, Jeff > Harrison, Mark Lamoureux, Sheila E. Murphy, Millie Niss, Gerald Schwartz, > Steve Shoemaker, JodiAnn Stevenson, Tony Trigiliol, Stephen Vincent, Joel > Weishaus, Frank Sherlock > > An Open Letter to America w/ Guest Editor Larry Sawyer > > Anne Waldman, Micah Ballard, John Beer, Bill Berkson, Charles Bernstein, > Michael Castro, Neeli Cherkovsky, Steve Dalachinsky, Jeff Encke, Hammon > Guthrie, Amari Hamadene, Jack Hirschman, jUStin!katKO, Tuli Kupferberg, Lina > ramona VitKauskas, Michael McClure, Joel Weishaus, Judith Malina & Hanon > Reznikov, Tim Martin, David Meltzer, Jonathan Penton, Jerome Rothenberg, Larry > Sawyer, Charles Shaw, AD Winans, Danny Shot, Ron Silliman, Dale Smith, Alan > Sondheim, Chris Stroffolino, ShaunAnne Tangney, Jeff Conant > > Export: Writing the Midwest w/ Guest Editor Andrew Lundwall > > William Allegrezza, Petra Backonja, John M. Bennett, Kristy Bowen, Garin > Cycholl, Helyn Dell, > mIEKAL aND, David Baratier, F. J. Bergmann, Robin Chapman, Larry O. Dean, John > Doe, Robert Klein Engler, Skip Fox, Caroline Gauger, Zlex Gildzewn, Mark > Kanak, jUStin!katKO, Tim Lane, Mark DuCharme, Clayton Eshelman, Daniel Gallik, > Michael Gause, Jesse Glass, Mary Kasimor, mark s. kuhar, Kimberly Lojek, Ben > Miller, Cynthia Plum, Andrew Lundwall, Sheila E. Murphy, Charles P. Ries, Sam > E. Robinson, Mark Spitzer, ShaunAnne Tangney, Brian Thao Worra, Gerlad > Schwartz, Jodiann M. Stevenson, John Tyson > > Beat Meets East > > Vernon Frazer > Lucas Klein > > Continuous Flame: A Tribute to Philip Whalen > > Clark Coolidge on Philip Whalen > Robert Creeley on Philip Whalen > Donald Guravich on Philip Whalen > David Meltzer on Philip Whalen > > Art > > Jose Manuel dos Santos Cross > Pamela Dewey > Cyrill Duneau > Tom Ferguson > > Recommended Reading > > I Like Your Eyes Liberty: Michael McClure and Terry Riley > Eda: An Anthology of Contemporary Turkish Poetry: Murat Nemet-Nejat, ed. > Looking for a Sign in the West: Peter Tuttle > Genesis, Structure, and Meaning in Gary Snyder's > Mountains and Rivers Without End:Anthony Hunt (coming soon) > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Editor: Michael Rothenberg > Assitant Editor: Terri Carrion > Contributing Editor: Jonathan Penton, Larry Sawyer, Andrew Lundwall > Art Editor: Nancy Victoria Davis > Webmaster: Jonathan Penton ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:29:42 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Re: Why does it take 5 editors to put together one issue of Big Bridge? Find out! Comments: To: Stephen Vincent In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII to quickly concur, this is a great issue. I still have confess that I don't really get where the american midwest is. it's kind of like British Columbia, which is neither. a great job all. kevin ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:06:18 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: open mike nyc tomorrow night! Comments: To: Maria Villafranca In-Reply-To: <20050216204444.26562.qmail@server288.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Viva la vittoria di Villafranca Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Maria Villafranca > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 2:45 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: open mike nyc tomorrow night! > > > Dactyl Foundation for the Arts & Humanities > 64 Grand Street (between West Broadway & Wooster) > SoHo, NYC > 212.219.2344 > www.dactyl.org > > Open Mic/Emerging Poets Series > Thursday, February 17, 2005 7-9pm > $8 donation > Drinks will be served. > Open to all writers and the general public. > Poets are encouraged to register: write Maria Villafranca at > poetry@verseonvellum.com. There will be a short break in between > the readings. > Poets plan to read for about 10 minutes; 3 poems. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 23:21:34 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: O sweet spontaneous MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mairead-- Thanks for the poem. I have thoroughly enjoyed our Oatmealee. I hope you will dispense royalties, per word or per page for my part when this appears in your next book. Second, I might owe you an apology, it is not that I do not know your name but there is an intentional mispelling each time I write it. I have been thinking a stress-mark into the e-mail just before I send it and since you have not said anything I thought it might be working but I wanted to be clear. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 00:30:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: 000 0a 0a 74 68 65 20 62 79 74 65 73 0a 0a 0a 30 31 |..the bytes...01| MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed 000 0a 0a 74 68 65 20 62 79 74 65 73 0a 0a 0a 30 31 |..the bytes...01| 010 30 31 30 30 31 31 30 30 30 31 31 30 31 31 31 30 |0100110001101110| 020 31 30 31 31 31 30 31 30 31 31 30 30 31 31 31 30 |1011101011001110| 030 30 31 30 0a 30 30 31 30 31 30 30 30 31 30 31 30 |010.001010001010| 040 30 31 31 30 30 30 31 31 31 31 31 31 30 31 30 31 |0110001111110101| 050 31 31 30 31 30 31 31 30 30 0a 31 31 31 30 30 30 |110101100.111000| 060 30 30 31 31 30 31 30 30 30 31 30 31 30 30 31 31 |0011010001010011| 070 30 30 30 31 31 31 31 31 30 30 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0111100000000110100001100011111111100 1011110011101000010011010000110001011 1101100101111001010101001001101000011 0101010010110001111110101010110111111 0000001011101001000100111111010001011 0111011001000101111100110010011001101 0000011001101100110010010110011001001 1001111101000100110111011010001011101 1001000100101110100000011111101101010 1011111100010010010101010000010110010 0101010100111101001101111010001100001 0110010000101110011110100110111101000 1100001011000000000111001111010111111 1110001110110101000000000111010100101 0111101111000100011000100001000011101 1100110011110101100110001100110000111 0011001110011001010000110011000110011 0101111011100111011100001000010101100 0100011110111101010010101110000000001 0101101100001111111100101111001110000 0000011010000110001011110110010111100 11101000010011010000 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 00:31:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Show details, Ellen Zweig and Leslie Thornton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1582224781-1108618265=:5800" This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-1582224781-1108618265=:5800 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE (Recently I sent out an announcement for the Millennium show of Ellen Zweig - we've been working on the 1000 Character Essay together - and Leslie Thornton - whose work I've known for 25 years. I asked them both for a fuller description of the screening, and here it is. Please try to attend if you're in the New York City area - Alan) Saturday, February 19 at 8 pm - you are invited to a video/film screening Ellen Zweig and Leslie Thornton's Adynata Zweig's video series HEAP and the world premiere of her 2005 video "a surplus of landscape" screens with Thornton's 1984 masterpiece, Adyanata. at Millenium Film Workshop, 66 East 4th St., NYC Admission: $7;members: $5 for information: phone: 212-673-0090 web: www. milleniumfilm.org Hope to see you there...ez and Leslie Program Ellen Zweig 3 videos from HEAP HEAP is a collection of experimental video portraits of Westerners who have studied, invented, misunderstood and loved China.=A0 These videos explore the multiple misunderstandings and rare moments of connection between two cultures. By focusing on individual historic personages like John Searle, G.W. Leibnitz and Robert van Gulik, I hope to follow the complex attitudes that have developed in the West, creating an ambiguous and intense portrait of cultural contact. (tongue tongue stone) G. W. Leibnitz=A0=A0=A0 2002=A0=A0=A0=A0 9:36 minutes Follow a trail of associations, close-up, caressing the surfaces of unusual rocks and folds of falling silk, hear the ringing sonorous stones.=A0 A man and a dog carry rocks in their mouths.=A0 Leibnitz, the philosopher of surfaces and interconnected depths, invented binary arithmetic because of a misunderstanding of the I-Ching. (The Chinese Room) John Searle=A0=A0=A0 2001=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 = 7:30 minutes A little girl running, reflections of a garden, calligraphy, tourists on a misty mountaintop.=A0 A boy shouts in Chinese:=A0 ~Syou can~Rt shoot here.~T The philosopher, John Searle, wrote about a thought experiment called ~SThe Chinese Room.~T He needed a foreign language to prove his point ; he chose Chinese (unsolved) Robert van Gulik=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 2003=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 18:03 minutes Referring to the Dutch diplomat van Gulik~Rs many interests, this video is a mystery story with no resolution ~V included are the ancient Chinese musical instrument, guqin; the wonderful ape called gibbon; the Judge Dee mysteries intermingled with a Caucasian man who is transformed into the Chinese opera character Judge Bao.=A0 Meanwhile, there~Rs something hidden under the tarp on that boat ~V is it a body? Leslie Thornton Adynata=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 1984=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 30 minutes An impossible world of exoticism and difference, an ~SOrient~T noticeably constructed in a play of seductive surfaces.=A0 The film begins with an instance of fact~Wa formal portrait taken in 19th Century China of an aristocratic couple~Wthen proceeds on a series of false penetrations on a course of vulgar tourism of the ~SOther.~T=A0 This inscrutable Other is seen variously as history, culture, woman, eroticism, madness, and violence through a complex of resonances which both engage the viewer in pursuit and deny any solace of ~Sknowing.~T=A0 The surface remains constantly opaque.~WL.T, Ellen Zweig a surplus of landscape=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0 2005=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 8:52 minutes (World Premiere) A collage of landscapes; an interview with filmmaker, Leslie Thornton, while she is hooked up to a lie detector; a dance in a red dress.=A0 Landscapes in places as various as China, France, California.=A0 There are so many images of landscape.=A0 Why would anyone travel when we can travel in our imaginations?=A0 Digital video cut with Super-8 and 16mm film --0-1582224781-1108618265=:5800-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:33:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: "Grafik Dynamo" by Kate Armstrong and Michael Tippett MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's a new piece by Vancouver's Kate Armstrong and Michael Tippett: http://turbulence.org/works/dynamo . The press release says: "Grafik Dynamo" is a net art work that loads live images from blogs and news sources on the web into a live action comic strip. The work is currently using a feed from LiveJournal. The images are accompanied by narrative fragments that are dynamically loaded into speech and thought bubbles and randomly displayed. Animating the comic strip using dynamic web content opens up the genre in a new way: together, the images and narrative serve to create a strange, dislocated notion of sense and expectation in the reader, as they are sometimes at odds with each other, sometimes perfectly in sync, and always moving and changing. The work takes an experimental approach to open ended narrative, positing a new hybrid between the flow of data animating the work and the formal parameter that comprises its structure. "Grafik Dynamo" is a 2005 commission of New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc. (aka Ether-Ore) for its Turbulence web site (New York). It was made possible with funding from The Andy Warhol Foundation for the Visual Arts. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:50:52 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: robert lane Subject: malleable jangle still accepting submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Just like to clear any confusion, Malleable Jangle IS still accepting submissions for Issue 4 March. Looks like Michael Rothenberg's email accidently attached itself to my last post. Regards Robert Lane. Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:45:11 -0500 From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Re: submissions thank you for your query but we will not be reading new work until sept. 2005. the new issue is going up next week. please resend. best, MR ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert lane" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 2:09 AM Subject: submissions > Malleable Jangle Issue 3 February is online at the > moment featuring the > following poets: > > Lawrence Upton * Sue Stanford * Andy Jackson * > Srinjay Chakravarti * > F.J. Bergmann * David Berray * Sabyasachi Roy > > and there are just under two [2] weeks to go until the > next issue. > > We seek to publish unpublished, original poetry, and > related articles. > > We are seeking submissions of poetry, and related > articles for Issue 4 > March. I have been fishing for articles on poetics, or > reviews, and > have not had a single bite yet. Who will be the first > to submit anything > on poetics? I don't know? > > Issue 4 March will be Avant Garde, or maybe Modern, > meets Australian > heartland in its layout and design. Although based in > Australia Malleable > Jangle is International in its orientation, and > encourages submissions > from around the world. Submit your work to: > > malleablejangle@yahoo.com.au > > I'd like to thank all who have submitted their work to > Malleable Jangle > and hope that we continue to receive such quality > submissions in the > future. Best regards, Robert Lane. online poetry journal malleablejangle the poetry of Robert Lane deja vu workshops --------------------------------- Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 01:31:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The Broken Promises of Hildegard von Bingen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed The Broken Promises of Hildegard von Bingen Feb 16, 2005 23:03:26 TEST 1: The first step is to check your radio. Your radio is working properly. PROBLEM: Your radio is off. Testing completed. Feb 16, 2005 23:03:44 Additional Information: |............)...| |..............'.| |................| |.........('.....| |..'.2.......'...| |.......d......0u| |.d............".| |................| |................| |............][ | |...radioradio...| _ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 00:46:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Fw: Fw: Re: infinite love and gratitude w/some self -promo thrown in MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steven Dalachinsky & Merry Fortune Sunday February 27 05 5 - 7 pm The FusionArts Museum 57 Stanton Street New York, NY 10002 (212) 995-5290 A, E, F, V to the 2nd Avenue Train Station or the 6 to Bleecker Street (walk east on houston, turn north on steve also reads that same night at 7 pm at downtown music gallery 3rd st and bowery w/ loren mazzancane connors events are free & march 3 at 530 pm at bowery poetry club w/ paul aaron 5$ Steve Dalachinsky is the author of many books of poetry including Trial and Error In Paris (Loudmouth Collective Press); In Glorious Black And White (Ugly Duckling Press); Poems For Lautreamont (Furniture Press) and the soon to be released Trust Fund Babies (Pitchfork Press). Merry Fortune is the author of Ghosts by Albert Ayler, Ghosts by Albert Ayler. Join Dalachinsky and Fortune for what promises to be an amazing evening of 'the word!' LONGER BIOS Steven Dalachinsky born in brooklyn after the last big war has survived many little wars. Dalachinsky's work appears regularly in journals on and off line. His most recent books include: Trial and Error in Paris (Loudmouth Collective Press); In Glorious Black and White (Ugly Duckling Press); Poems For Lautreamont (Furniture Press) and the soon to be released Trust Fund Babies (Pitchfork Press). He has been anthologized through the years in such books as Beat Indeed, Haiku Moment and the much praised anthology The Outlaw Bible of American Poetry. He is he hopes, Steven Dalachinsky and no one else ? tho that is doubtful. Merry Fortune ". . . a microscopic gauntlet of ?imaginary landscapes? where the spiritual and pedestrian share parity in a squirmingly comfortable way at both exhilarating heights and disquieting depths. Created at times are edgy musical messages, just as Ayler?s strange, simple, melancholic melodies shared space with his weird impassioned howling and plaintive, overflowing cries. . . . Desire?s internal struggle opens into a sometimes frantic, sometimes sublime, always abstract abyss called life." ? Steven Dalachinsky on Ghosts by Albert Ayler, Ghosts by Albert Ayler ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 02:19:11 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this nite i climbed the ladder to the end rung of water rope of lite & jumped or fell up or down thru or in to or when jerusalem one city wall & rock star brite nite flood rite lite... 00......drn... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:00:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: Help NARAL kill babies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Yes This is reminiscentof Swift's A Modest Proposal - I cant make head or tail of it - is it saying something against abortion? - via irony - in any case it seems "muddled" doesn't seem Ron's style - he is very bright....I also like the thing by Swift that stopped the potential financial crippling of Ireland. There is no consensus here on the subject of "right ot life" so the irony is -by and large - lost here (and this is not relevant to this List ) - of course its possible it could ip inside another debate, as these things do,but its not really anything to do - per se - with poetics.. Richard Taylor Auckland - New Zealand richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet ("Well..." ) / Chess Addict (partly recovered) /Was 15 stone - working on it -/ Grandfather/ BA /NZCE/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: --------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."---------------------- ASPECT BOOKS www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Corbett" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 11:38 AM Subject: Re: Help NARAL kill babies > Dear Ron, > > Are you being spammed? > > I suspect this text of irony, but am not sure. Perhaps Swift's Modest > Proposal felt like this in its time. > > Robert > > Ron Silliman wrote: > Dear Friend, > > I hope you take a moment to fight the the Right-To-Life Movement > by killing an unborn baby--yours, or perhaps a friend's--this > Valentine's Day. > > Show the unborn who's boss this holiday season. After all, it is > your convenience, your wealth and comfort that are important: > not those of an unborn child who knows nothing about life yet. > By keeping the population down, we increase access to the > world's precious resources by people that count (the born) > through a simple, nearly invisible act of slaughter. > > Please join NARAL in this important cause. Thank you. > > > http://prochoiceaction.org/campaign/open_letter_salon?rk=3d_G_LS11memW > > *********************************** > Powered by GetActive Software, Inc. > Relationship Management for Member Organizations (tm) > http://www.getactive.com > *********************************** > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 00:26:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: Who wrote this? It is in 'The Making of Ulysses' "Translation of Felix Beran's poem" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8; reply-type=original Initially I thought nothing of this and then it started "beating" in my head - so here is my "translation" innovation on this by Felix Beran: DER KRIEG (to my Grandson Sebastian Richard Taylor (soon 3) whose father is German): And now comes the war and now comes the war: the war the war the war UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG: (Kommen the Krieg kommen the Krieg: the Krieg the Krieg the Krieg the Krieg) All men are soldiers: soldiers soldiers soldeirs soldiers soldiers... And all soldiers die and all soldiers die and soldiers die do die do die do die: who are flesh of women who are flesh of women who are flesh of women who are flesh of women WHO ARE THE CHILD FLESH OF WOMEN AND MEN DO DIE who once laughed in their mothers arms: whose eyes shining at birth knew no hate, no war.... BUT SOLDATEN MUSTEN STIRBEN: STIRBEN: STIRBEN STIRBEN STIRBEN [musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben musten stirben] Kommen der Keig der Krieg der Krieg der Krieg" and comes the War the War the War: And soldiers do kiss do kiss do kiss do kiss ONCE GENTLY MY MOUTH BRUSHED A CHILDS SOFT HEAD And kommen die bood die blood die blood die blood; For all who kiss shall die shall die: shall die shall die shall die shall die shall die shall die shall die shall die shall die shall die shall die shall die shall die shall die SOFTLY THEY KISS Stirben mussen sie Stirben mussen sie Stirben mussen sie Stirben mussen sie Stirben mussen sie Stirben mussen sie Stirben mussen sie Stirben mussen sie DIE THEY MUST and all who kiss must die must die THEY WILL DIE MY SON - THEY WILL DIE -EVEN THOSE WHO KISS MY BODY MY LIPS FOR THE BLOOD MUST COME: Evens those gentle children (who are men now) shall die who are men now: who are men now who are men now who are men now who are men now who are men now who are men now UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG DER KRIEG SHINING AT BIRTH The sodliers did kiss: but they shall die - They shall die who kissed my whiteness: they shall die DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DI D . Who kiss: Who kussen: COMEN SIE KRIEG SIE KRIEG SIE KRIEG KOMMEN DA WAR DA VAR DA VAAR DA VAAAR: COMMEN!! coming the war the war the war coming the war the war the war: UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UN D n sft komen d..dei die..var wa da K r .kreig eig...g...d... {Derrr,, * ,,/ '''// ..* ... @ ### $#$$# _ â–’ z nada â•œ â•— â–’ │ S â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–’ │ S tod Blutt '''// ..* ... @ ,,/ '''//$$# #bluoidâ–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘ â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘ BMMM!! '''// ..* ... @ ### $#$$# _ â–’ z nada â•œ â•— â–’ │ S â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–‘â–’ │ S tod Blutt -stirbens stirb } UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG UND NUN IST KOMMEN DER KRIEG DER KRIEG SHINING AT BIRTH SHINING AT BIRTH SHINING AT BIRTH: {....unt zie soldattens die koming die konning (die comnning?) die com: die com: zee soldattens do kommen....do com do comn: do coomg: do coome do come my son so sweet so suss wo sweet: mein knaben so suss) {SEBASTIAN IST DAS EINER KLEINER SUSS KNABE - IST DAS EINER KLEINER SUSS IST DAS EINER KLEINER SUSS IST DAS EINER KLEINER SUSS IST DAS EINER KLEINER SUSS } Meiner weissen Leib Meiner weissen Leib Meiner weissen Leib Meiner weissen Leib Meiner weissen Leib Meiner weissen Leib Meiner weissen Meiner Mein: my body so soft so white so white ..... WER WIRD NUN KUSSEN WER WIRD NUN KUSSEN WER WIRD NUN KUSSEN ...who kiss now.... MEIN LEIB MEIN LEI MEIN LE MEIN MEI ME M . my lips Richard Taylor Auckland - New Zealand richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet ("Well..." ) / Chess Addict (partly recovered) /Was 15 stone - working on it -/ Grandfather/ BA /NZCE/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: --------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."---------------------- ASPECT BOOKS www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Irving Weiss" To: Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 7:12 AM Subject: Re: Who wrote this? It is in 'The Making of Ulysses' Thank you, Richard Taylor, and I do remember now the occasion, decades back, on which I saw the poem in The Making of Ulysses. My German is adequate enough to translate the poem literally as And now comes the war (3x) Now they are all soldiers, i.e., Now everyone¹s a soldier Soldiers must die. Die they must. Who will now kiss My white body Actually, ³leib² is body, ³lieb² is the adjective for ³dear,² from the noun ³liebe² for love. Bully for The Poetics List and gratitude to you. Irving Irving Weiss www.irvingweiss.com On 1/8/05 5:16 AM, "Richard Taylor" wrote: > This is in "The Making of Ulysses " by Frank Budgeon it is poem by the > Viennese poet Felix Beran - a friend of Joyce's in Zurich. Joyce told > Budgeon about it in about 1918 - it was the only poem re war that > interested Joyce - then > > It goes Und nun ist kommen der Krieg der Kreig > x 3 > > Then Nun sind sie alle Soldaten > x3 > The Soldaten mussen sterben > x 3 > Sterben mussen sie > Then Wer wird nun kussen > x 3 > Meiner weissen Leib > > I had read this only a few days ago and was reading that book and > another > called "Our Friend James Joyce " as i found them while sorting out some > of my books. > > My daughter's boyfriend -partner -whatever: is German -but from here I > dont know what it means Krieg means games? - Leib = body. Soldaten = > soldiers ... I think 'kussen' is kissing. > > I would be interested in what it says in English > > I just noticeed this : "The word "Lieb" (body) moved him to > enthusaism......." > > Richard Taylor > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Henrike Lichtenberg" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 4:07 AM > Subject: Re: Who wrote this? > > Does anyone know who wrote a poem containing the following lines, more or > less as in my faulty German: > > Und nun ist kommen der krieg, der krieg (repeat three times?) wer wilt nun > küssen mein weisses leib? > > Comes from WWI period and I vaguely remember seeing it in connection with > something about Joyce. > > Irving Weiss -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 08:35:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Elrick and Levitsky at Wayne State Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed New Genre Readings by Laura Elrick and Rachel Levitsky Monday, February 21, 3:30 10th floor conference room Department of English, Wayne State University 5057 Woodward Avenue, Detroit Laura Elrick is the author of sKincerity (Krupskaya, 2003) and is one of the featured writers on Women In the Avant Garde, a CD produced by Narrow House Recordings in 2004. Born in Colorado, she now lives in Brooklyn, NY, where she co-curated the Segue on the Bowery reading series in lower Manhattan. Her most recent manuscript is titled Fantasies in Permeable Structures and is an anti-epic poem about resistance ("feminized"), which traverses contemporary discourses of nation, race, rationalism, and poetic language. Her poetry and essays have recently appeared in the Poetry Project Newsletter, The Brooklyn Rail, Tripwire 6.5 RNC/NYC, Crayon, and War and Peace. Rachel Levitsky's first full length volume of poetry, Under the Sun, was published by Futurepoem books in 2003. She is the author of four chapbooks of poetry, Dearly,, (a+bend, 1999), Cartographies of Error (Leroy, 1999), The Adventures of Yaya and Grace (PotesPoets, 1999) and 2(1x1)Portraits (Baksun, 1998). She has written several plays, one of which, Reduced Tuesday, a collaboration with Camille Roy, was performed at the 2002 Poetry Play Jamboree in San Francisco and is published online at Cauldron Magazine. Levitsky is the creator of Belladonna*, NYC's feminist-experimental-poetic reading, salon and publication series. She teaches at the Poetry Project, Pratt Institute, Naropa University, Queens College and for the Painter's Union. Her current project is called NEIGHBOR. Curated by Carla Harryman and Barrett Watten Open to the public; all are welcome ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 08:39:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek White Subject: Re: Meme Expressions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve, Whether your know it or not, your are the biggest meme machine of all--you are so possessed by memes that the memes don't want you to be conscious of them! Seriously, don't worry about it if you don't know consciously know what they are or how they are defined, suffice to say that I am seeking text and visual art (prose poems, visual poetry, found objects or whatever else you want to call it). The theme is mostly for my amusement. If you google "memes" you should be able to find plenty of info, for example this site defines them: http://maxwell.lucifer.com/virus/alt.memetics/what.is.html O if you have the time, read some Richard Dawkins. A good place to start is the "Selfish Gene". Visually, street memes is another great site: http://streetmemes.com/ though I'm not nearly as strict for the need to be "self-replicating"... the replication part comes when it is published. Think of your writings as ideas that are in competition to replicate by being published. Textually, I'm after encapsulated myths or the memetic equivalent of genetic code. Definitely open to interpretation. I think I list some other sites and resources on the submissions page: http://www.sleepingfish.net/submit.htm Apologies for not explaining it better. All best Derek White ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 01:22:57 -0500 From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: SleepingFish wants your Meme Expressions so>>>> what is a meme.....ory????? or frenchy???? or ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 09:16:14 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Beirut Bombing Points To U.S. Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Beirut Bombing Points To U.S.: Goss's Beirut Bombing Tops Casey, Puts CIA Back On The Strategic Map: Next Move, Yanks Yank Ambassador From Syria: U.S. Has Most To Gain From Bombing; Boucher Blames Syria For 'Security Failure': By MO BRAZZI They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 11:20:08 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Help NARAL kill babies Comments: To: ron.henry@GMAIL.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Of course, it is also possible that message reflects Ron's point of view. Given that Ron's background is Catholic, I assume that the message is genuine. After all, is considering a foetus in the woman's belly alive such an outrageous idea? Are all our choices absolute and limitless, doesn't the abortion issue have any ambivalence? Like Ron I am a parent t6hough a Jew. My wife had to have an abortion many many years ago. The idea that we may have had a third person as precious, our feelings as attached to her/him as our two sons haunts me to this day. Murat In a message dated 02/16/05 11:12:42 AM, ron.henry@GMAIL.COM writes: > On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 06:52:12 -0600, Haas Bianchi > wrote: > > > is this supposed to be ironic? or serious? Because it sounds like it was > > written by Randall Terry. > > Looks to me like someone nasty is impersonating Silliman. Assuming it > isn't some uncharacteristically very bad taste by him, he might want > to look into the possibility someone has hacked his account. (It looks > like it's from the same address as his blog updates, but I didn't look > that closely at the email headers to find signs of spoofing.) > > If it is an impersonation, it's saddening. You see this sort of > pathetic crap all the time on Usenet discussion groups, but not > usually private, moderated lists like this one. > > -- > Ron Henry > AUGHT #13 now out > http://people2.clarityconnect.com/webpages6/ronhenry/aught.htm > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 11:51:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Help NARAL kill babies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain there are any number of oddities about this message -- which makes it a perfect exemplum of the difficulties of interpretation. no? the second part makes it hard to read the first part as ironic in quite the way you might at first wish to -- the entire thing is so over the top that it would not find a happy home even with many right-to-life Catholics -- (the tone is quite unlike the tone of MODEST PROPOSAL, for example) -- though it might sit well with the Randall Terrys and Alan Keyes of this world -- and the second part of the message appears to make a number of truly strange assumptions about the social class and background of people likely to get abortions -- and an aside -- why is it that in the American politcal context, constant reference is made to the Vatican's opposition to abortion, while we seldom hear about the Vatican's equally vehement objections to the USA's penchant for executions? asked ex-Baptist Aldon . . . <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 11:01:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: REMINDER: POG Saturday Feb 19: Jena Osman, Dawn Pendergast, Tiffany MacFerrin Comments: To: Tenney Nathanson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable POG=20 presents poets Jena Osman =20 Tiffany MacFerrin =20 Dawn Pendergast Jena Osman's visit is being co-sponsored by the University of Arizona = Poetry Center. Saturday, February 19, 7pm,=20 ORTSPACE 121 E. 7th Street (use entry on east side of building, at alley door) Admission: $5; Students $3 also: Jena Osman "War in/of Words: Searching for Poethical Models":=20 a talk and roundtable discussion with poet Jena Osman THIS EVENT CO-SPONSORED BY THE UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA POETRY CENTER Saturday, February 19, 3pm,=20 Dinnerware Contemporary Art Gallery, 210 N. Fourth Ave Admission: $5; Students $3 =20 Jena Osman teaches in the graduate writing program at Temple University. = She has published six books of poetry: Jury (Meow Press, 1996), Amblyopia (Avenue B, 1993), The Lab-Book (Poetics Program at SUNY Buffalo, 1992), Balance (Leave Books, 1992), Underwater Dive: Version One (Paradigm = Press, 1990) and Twelve Parts of Her (Burning Deck Press, 1989). Her poetry has also been anthologized in The Art of Practice: Forty-Five Contemporary Poets, as well as Subliminal Time and Writing From the New Coast: Presentation. She is the co-editor (with Juliana Spahr) of Chain, a = journal that investigates language in its various presentational frames. See: =20 Jena Osman EPC home page: http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/osman/ The Periodic Table As Assembled by Dr. Zhivago, Oculist: http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/osman/periodic/ Dead Text:=20 http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/osman/deadtext.html Tiffany MacFerrin is an original Tucson specimen, guilty of subjecting cohorts to spontaneous singing on the streets after a few beats of the = wind in her hair. She is too often having work to fun hard on her poetry, = but come hear, if you dare, what stars might explode in midair!=20 Dawn Pendergast is a second-year MFA student at University of Arizona. = She received her MA in Performance Studies at NYU and a BS in Science, Technology, and Culture at Georgia Institute of Technology. She = currently teaches creative writing and works for the University of Arizona Poetry Center. See: Reconstructions: http://www.clockwatching.net/~spoon/reconstructions/reconstructions.html = Epithelium: http://www.clockwatching.net/~spoon/epithelium/index.html * Abstract for the Roundtable Discussion=20 with Jena Osman: Poet-critic Joan Retallack has described the poethical art form as "a = form of life in which we would, in our most enlightened moments, want to live = - [that] which makes the intricate complexity of the intersecting = intentional and accidental that is our world known to us through the sensory and imaginative enactment of complex forms" ("Accident ...Aeroplane ...Artichoke"). I've been thinking about this concept in relation to a comment Anne Waldman made a year or so ago at the Kelley Writers House = in Philadelphia about how now is a time of "outrageous metaphor and = terrible misnomers," what she called a kind of "interior terrorism." She said = that the best thing we can do right now as writers is study euphemism. Poet-critic Barrett Watten said in a talk called "War=3DLanguage" that = "We need to take the mechanized hardware of the language of war apart - by locating alternate evidence in multiple media, by questioning the pseudo-objectivity of its delusional conclusions, by unpacking its = embedded metaphors and narrative frames, by thinking otherwise." There seemed to = be a necessary hope that as writers, pointing to language itself is a first = step toward action. But in what ways is that pointing poethical? Are there = ways to critique the topical world, the world of events, while at the same = time providing alternative "poethical" forms? In other words, in what ways = can words in poems make war, and in what ways can they make peace? =20 * POG events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council, the Arizona Commission on the Arts, and the National Endowment = for the Arts. POG also benefits from the continuing support of The = University of Arizona Poetry Center, the Arizona Quarterly, Chax Press, and The = University of Arizona Department of English. =20 thanks to our growing list of 2004-2005 Patrons and Sponsors:=20 =20 . Corporate Patrons Buffalo Exchange and GlobalEye Systems . Individual Patrons Millie Chapin, Elizabeth Landry, Allison Moore, Liisa Phillips, Jessica Thompson, , and Rachel Traywick . Corporate Sponsors Antennae a Journal of Experimental Poetry and Music/Performance, Bookman's, Chax Press, Jamba Juice, Kaplan Test Prep = and Admissions, Kore Press, Macy's, Reader's Oasis, and Zia Records . Individual Sponsors Suzanne Clores, Sheila Murphy, and Desiree Rios =20 We're also grateful to hosts and programming partners . Casa Libre en La Solana Inn & Guest House . Dinnerware Contemporary Arts gallery . Las Artes Center (see stories in El Independiente and the Tucson Weekly) . O-T-O Dance at ORTSPACE . MOCA (Museum of Contemporary Art) . Alamo Gallery (see this Tucson Arts District page) =20 for links to the web pages of our various donors and partners, and for = lots of other material, please visit us on the web at www.gopog.org=20 or for further information contact=20 POG: 615-7803, mailto:pog@gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 11:10:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephanie Young Organization: Mills College Subject: ACT ART: Heriberto Yepez FEBRUARY 24 Comments: To: English Grad Students MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You're invited! To night two of the spring series ACT ART: performances, readings and dialogues with artist-activists. Tijuana writer and theorist HERIBERTO YEPEZ reads next Thursday night, FEBRUARY 24 in the Mills Hall Living Room @ 7:00 (w/ a reception to follow) Among poets and writers who blog, Mexican writer and translator Heriberto Yèpez is one of the most provocative voices, writing in both Spanish and English and about/at the boundary of each language. Relentless in his questioning of both totalitarian states and the role of the poet/cultural worker, Heriberto’s aphorisms are an unsettling salve for the global conditions we find ourselves in: “Poetry is the power the writer has; the power s/h/e needs to fight, this power within, not the power we invent as not-related-to-me, the power-of-the-other, the one I can criticize to be heroic, to be a Poet. Write against your own act.” Currently a professor of Philosophy at UABC-Tijuana, Yèpez is the author of several books in Spanish writes for the Reforma newspaper in Mexico City. Some of his writing in English has appeared in U.S. magazines, including Tripwire, Shark and XCP. He has performed and read at various U.S. conferences, including Poetry in a Time of Crisis at the UC Santa Cruz, and the recent Cabinet of the Muses series, sponsored in part by UC Berkeley and the LAB. You can find him online at http://www.hyepez.blogspot.com/ and http://mexperimental.blogspot.com/ Also coming up in the ACT ART series . . . GAYE CHAN & NANDITA SHARMA Thursday MARCH 17 Mills Hall Living Room, 7:00 p.m. THE YES MEN Thursday APRIL 14 Lisser Theater, 7:00 p.m. And CONTEMPORARY WRITER SERIES also of interest . . . JENA OSMAN Tuesday MARCH 8 Mills Hall Living Room, 5:30-7:00 CECILIA VICUNA Tuesday APRIL 12 Mills Hall Living Room, 5:30-7:00 ACT ART is funded in part by the James Irvine Foundation, the Contemporary Writers Series, Poets & Writers, Inc. through a grant it has received from the Hearst Foundation, and 'A 'A Arts. For more information: 510-430-3130 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 14:29:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Rumsfeld's Way With Words MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain from this morning's Washington Post: when refusing to provide congress with an estimate of the number of insurgents in Iraq, Rumsfled said "it's not my business to do intelligent work." <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:10:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Poem for Kevin Thurston Comments: To: kevin thurston Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Hole Poem circa Washington, D.C. for Kevin Thurston The the the the we took for granted the hole they told us to =93go up!=94 it lost its novelty after the the the face peeked in and said =93hello.=94 www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 13:25:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Jon Corelis - Can Poetry Liberate Language? In-Reply-To: <17C9409C.36541456.001942C5@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Murat, there is much here i hadn't considered. and i admit that my main concern was to clear Wittgenstein of any connection to the denial of the revolutionary potential of poetic language. as I say below--sort of--what is missing from Wittgenstein's notion of language games is any sense of how the games change--at least from I what know. I do think the notion of games allows one to explore the limits of those games, which may not turn out to be as impermeable as philosophers would like. poetry does allow one to cross borders, but then chaos has taught us that limits are the very place of indeterminacy. I am not sure why a contemporary poet would feel the need to abide by Wittgenstein, in any case. His is but another language game. Thus my turn to Shelley and his Defense, specifically to where he says of poets: "Their language is vitally metaphorical; that is it marks the before unapprehended relations of things, and perpetuates their apprehension, until the words which re present them become through time signs for portions and classes of thoughts, instead of pictures of integral thoughts; and then, if no new poets should arise to create afresh the associations which have been thus disorganized, language will be dead to all the nobler purposes of human intercourse." This is not "liberation," but resurrection. Shelley always has in mind his own christian Platonism, although he undermines it as well--the poetic capacity is but a fading coal, ashes--so you cannot charge him with idealism pure and simple. At the same time, this is a manifesto or an exhortation. It is not philosophy, it is not trying to patrol or discover borders. A final word: Shelley's quote about the unacknowledged legislators is a classic, but the preceding formulation at the end is at once more extreme (in its suggestion of power) but also more disturbing. "Poets are the hierophants of an unapprehended inspiration, the mirrors of the gigantic shadows which futurity casts upon the present, the words which express what they understand not, the trumpets which sing to battle and feel not what they inspire: the influence which is moved not, but moves." poets here are turning into mere vessels, no more conscious of what moves them then anyone else. if they are unacknowledge legislators, they themselves do not acknowledge that they are either. Robert Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: >I am interested this, too, except that I think it is a blind alley, an instance of someone saying they have found the "ding-an-sich," or a cry to find it. To my mind, Wittgenstein did not consign poetry to an endless repetition of the so-called real. What does he mean then by being caught like a fly in a box? > This seems to be how his mantra that philosophy nothing but therapy for the delusions it creates. In any case, that is a broad generalization about the project Philosophical Investigations, a work that was never finished, and in any case is not written in the consecutive and consequential style of the Tractatus. By "consequential" do you mean important or logically connected? The PI is a case of analysis interminable. It does, however, start with an explosion of Wittgenstein's previous work and much of western philosophy back to Descartes. He says that a picture had us bewitched. By saying that, he is saying good-bye to a correspondence theory of truth and naive representationalism, the bulwarks of the quest for certainty. He is saying that language games are tautological. Because of that they are not about the world, They are illusions. But he himself is involved in a language game; that's why a fly in a box. Metaphysics (PI), a constant engine of tearing down of illusions through illusions. > >Instead, PI posits that language only can be understood as a game, or rather games. This does not mean that we are fully in charge or cognizant and--perhaps this is not Wittgenstein--the games don't change and evolve, " What does exactly "evolve" mean? Does the "old" inherently contain everything in the "new" or doesn't it? If it does not, then the system is not closed. If it does, then nothing "new" (therefore nothing) is being said. "...as humans evidently do. But Wittgenstein does seem to believe that getting beyond games--in a way that is certain, rather than simply speculative--is impossible." Yes, that's true. That's why he feels and senses caught like a fly. Wittgenstein makes empiricism (Locke, also the rationalizer of property) come face to face with its inherent contradictions (Marx). Tractatus and PI are works of empiricism in extremis. The real attack against this thinking does not come from Descartes but from Kant, Hegel, Heidegger, Benjamin, all believers in essences. The real attack on Wittgenstein, etal, is not that words have pictures which they represent; rather that, words (language) are part of a reality which they can not completely cover. Words and experience do not completely cover each other; they are not a perfect, tautological fit. In attempts to cross that gap (distance, imperfect fit) that language renews itself. "Now, if getting beyond the games is how poetry is to liberate language, well, I just don't get that. Language can never point to anything outside itself." All you are saying is that you can not disagree with Wittgenstein. "It is our reception of it and the full web of understanding that happens in a communicative that allows language to be a vehicle for meaning." One can equally look at Wittgenstein's view of language as a tool with generates (can generate) no meaning. > >Why not simply go back to Shelley and his belief that poetry reanimates the language of the tribe? What does Shelley have to do with Wittgenstein? "It gives us new expressions and sometimes, with it, new experiences. But to look in a language or in poetry for certainty, that I am afraid is a delusion." Who said one is looking at language for certainty. That's the point, it is full of uncertainty, insufficiency. "It is exactly the picture that bewitches." A good description of W.'s work, an attempt not to be bewitched which bewitches. Ciao. Murat > >Robert > >Mary Jo Malo wrote: >Jon, I'm extremely interested in this. Philosophical poetry and prose is >largely divided into two camps. Those who hope for this liberation and who have >a general idea of to what - and - those who don't, but who nevertheless use >language to make their point that there is no point to language. Mary Jo >=================== > >Trying to think through the Brown quote (given in my posting under the >subject >"The topic in a different light") in case anyone's still interested: >When Brown talks about "linguistic analysts [who] have had the project of >getting rid of the disease in language by reducing language to purely >operational terms," I think he's referring to theories of language which insist that >language has no meaning except what it's given by its context. In this view, >language is "purely" operational because it is atelic: it operates >without operating to any end; it works without working *for* anything; it >means without meaning anything in particular. Obviously this view is, or at >least is close to, the view of language which has subsequently become popularly >known as structuralist or post-structuralist. A poetics based on such a >view -- what I called a Witttgensteinian poetics -- will see the role of poetry >as being to liberate language from the delusory quality that >Wittgenstein attributed to it, in order to ... what? > >In order to do nothing. And this is the problem. The purpose of liberating >language should be to enable the poet to use it to reveal meanings which >can't >be revealed if language remains bound to what we deludedly call reality, if >the words remain locked in their nominalist prison. It's dream-work. Just >as >the psyche's dream-worker can only construct symbolic meaning by liberating >sensory images from their quotidian meaning, so the poet can only construct >meaning in a language which has been liberated from the delusion that it >represents our experience. Or to put it another way, words must be liberated >from their ordinary meanings before the poet is able to use them to construct >metaphors, and metaphor, as Aristotle said, is the essence of poetic genius. > >There are indeed times when a cigar is only a cigar, but the dream time, >whether of the psychic dream worker, the shaman, or the poet, >isn't one of them. >The result of a poetics that stops with Wittgenstein instead of beginning >with >him will be a poetry that offers nothing but a savor of the meaninglessness >of >the universe: it will be a poetry that turns the world into a kalaidescope >which it invites us to delight in passively like a baby reclining under a >fascinating jangling and shining crib toy. > >And from a psychoanalytic standpoint the profoundly infantile nature of such >a >poetry cannot of course be accidental. Reversion to infantile passivity is >the classic simple hysterical response to prolonged unbearable threat. The >constructors of such a poetry are acting as artists in spite of themselves, >imitating the action of the human self in a world which has made it >impossible >to live a human life. The unconscious message of such poetry is, "Please >don't hurt me." >===================================== >Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org >_www.geocities.com/joncpoetics_ (http://www.geocities.com/joncpoetics) >I offered the Norman O. Brown quote here because I thought it has a striking >and specific relevance to contemporary poetics. Brown wrote that some >"linguistic analysts have had the project of getting rid of the disease in >language by reducing language to purely operational terms." It seems to me >that some contemporary American poets have engaged in a similar project to >create a poetry which uses language purely operationally, and for the same >reason: as part of what Wittgenstein called philosophy's "battle against the >bewitchment [Verhexung] of our intelligence by means of language." > >I think that this project, as Brown also says of the project of the >linguistic >analysts he mentioned, will fail because it is impossible, and anyway would >be >pointless if it succeeded. As Brown says, "a purely operational language >would be a language without a libidinal (erotic) component; and >psychoanalysis >would suggest that such a project is impossible because language, like man, >has an erotic base, and also useless because man cannot be persuaded to >operate (work) for operation's sake." For "language" in the foregoing >sentence substitute "poetry," and you can take it as a critique of certain >current avant-garde poetics. >Poetry, like psychoanalysis, should begin where Wittgenstein ends. A >Wittgensteinian poetics will result only in an aridly endless restatement of >the problem, but what the poet must provide is a solution. >Jon Corelis jonc@stanfordalumni.org >_www.geocities.com/joncpoetics_ (http://www.geocities.com/joncpoetics) >======================== >If, in the history of every child, language is first of all a mode of erotic >expression and then later succumbs to the domination of the >reality-principle, >it follows, or perhaps we should say mirrors, the path taken by the human >psyche and must share the ultimate fate of the human psyche, namely neurosis >... To regard human speech, the self-evident sign of our superiority over >animals, as a disease, or at least as essentially diseased, is for common >sense ... a monstrous hypothesis. Yet psychoanalysis, which insists on the >necessary connection between cultural achievement and neurosis and between >social organization and neurosis, and which therefore defines man as the >neurotic animal, can hardly take any other position. ... if psychoanalysis is >carried to the logical conclusion that language is neurotic, it can join >hands >with the twentieth century school of linguistic analysis -- a depth analysis >of language -- inspired by that man with a real genius for the >psychopathology >of language, Wittgenstein. He said, "Philosophy is a battle against the >bewitchment [Verhexung] of our intelligence by means of language." >Some of these linguistic analysts have had the project of getting rid of the >disease in language by reducing language to purely operational terms. From >the psychoanalytic point of view, a purely operational language would be a >language without a libidinal (erotic) component; and psychoanalysis would >suggest that such a project is impossible because language, like man, has an >erotic base, and also useless because man cannot be persuaded to operate >(work) for operation's sake. Wittgenstein, if I understand him correctly, >has >a position much closer to that of psychoanalysis; he limits the task of >philosophy to that of recognizing the inevitable insanity of language. "My >aim is," he says, "to teach you to pass from a piece of disguised nonsense to >something that is patent nonsense." "He who understands me finally >recognizes >[my propositions] as senseless." Psychoanalysis begins where Wittgenstein >ends. The problem is not the disease of language, but the disease called >man. > >-- Norman O. Brown, Life against Death > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 17:32:19 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brenda Coultas Subject: Durand, Machlin, Coultas Feb 26, NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marcella Durand, Dan Machlin, Brenda Coultas next Saturday, Feb. 26th, at 3 pm at the Ear Inn in NYC. The Ear Inn is located waaaay west on Spring St. (326 Spring to be precise), just before the river. Hopefully, there'll be a snowstorm, so you can observe how the snow blows toward you as you walk to the bar. For more info or directions, visit http://www.mbroder.com/ear_inn/. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 14:58:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: [nwpeltiersupport] Peltier Scholarship Comments: cc: Thco2 , HIP HOP to you get your Thank On MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ============================== From the LPDC February 16, 2005 ============================== Leonard Peltier Scholarship at Oglala Lakota College THREE-MILE CREEK SD - The Oglala Commemoration Committee and Lakota Student Alliance is pleased to introduce the Leonard Peltier Honorary Scholarship for incoming freshmen at Oglala Lakota College. This scholarship will be awarded to one student each year that has finished their General Equivalency Diploma (GED) in good standing and plans to attend Oglala Lakota College (OLC) to further their education. The Award, in the amount of $250, is created in the name of Leonard Peltier, Anishnabe activist and acclaimed author of "Prison Writings: My Life is My Sundance." Only GED Graduates at Oglala Lakota College shall be eligible to receive this scholarship. The applicant (GED Graduate) must submit an application and Essay to be considered by the Oglala Lakota College Scholarship Committee. The Oglala Lakota College Scholarship Committee is authorized to select the award recipient each year. The Oglala Commemoration Committee will announce the Leonard Peltier Honorary Scholarship recipient following the annual Oglala Commemoration Event held each year in Oglala SD. The Lakota Student Alliance and Oglala Commemoration Committee jointly sponsor the Scholarship to honor and remember the lives lost during the 1970's civil conflict on the reservation and to also raise awareness toward the unjust imprisonment of AIM member Leonard Peltier, currently jailed in Leavenworth Kansas. Peltier's imprisonment resulted from answering a distress call by Oglala Lakota Elders and victims of a "Reign of Terror" ultimately resulting in a shooting battle between AIM members and Federal Agents at the Jumping Bull property. The Elders called AIM for protection during the historic 1970's era on Pine Ridge Reservation. Lakota Student Alliance members hope this scholarship will encourage GED graduates to further their education and gain powerful knowledge for the common good of the Lakota Nation. The LSA realizes the tremendous barriers that often lead to painful choices by many Lakota Tribal students. The GED graduates of the Oglala Lakota Nation are mostly Single Parents with little income. These parents took the initiative to better themselves for their homes, and their communities. Applications for the Leonard Peltier Honorary Scholarship will be made available at the Oglala Lakota College Registrar's office as well as the local College Center Branches. The scholarship application will also be posted online at the Lakota Student Alliance and the Oglala Commemoration Websites. We wish future scholarship recipients good luck in their educational endeavors. The Leonard Peltier Honorary Scholarship is a result of fundraising efforts conducted by the Oglala Commemoration Committee and the Lakota Student Alliance in conjunction with the annual Oglala Commemoration Event. We intend to continue this scholarship annually with the help of considerate donors and individuals. The Lakota Student Alliance website is http://www.geocities.com/lakotastudentalliance/index.htm For more information on the Oglala Commemoration Event, you can visit the website at http://www.oglalacommemoration.com ============================================================ ============================================================ The "PeltierSupport" Mailing List is a service of the Peltier Legal Team. Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 18:48:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Cross Subject: Atticus/Finch Chapbooks Online! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Friends: Thanks to the expertise of one Jerrold Shiroma, Atticus/Finch is only now entering the 20th century while the rest of the world moves bravely into the 21st. But we're doing so with a big, big BANG! Click on www.atticusfinch.org to see what's in store for chapbook connoisseurs around the world! Swoon at the wit of our mission statement! Click on book titles to view cover images and read sample poems! Buy books by Tanya Brolaski, Elizabeth Willis, and Eli Drabman! Salivate at the prospect of purchasing books by Thom Donovan, Kyle Schlesinger, and Lisa Jarnot in the near future! Visit now before this becomes old news! Pass on the good word! Michael ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 19:23:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: konrad Subject: Re: Jon Corelis - Can Poetry Liberate Language? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Robert Corbett, responding to Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: [snip] "what is missing from Wittgenstein's notion of language games is any sense of how the games change--at least from I what know. I do think the notion of games allows one to explore the limits of those games, which may not turn out to be as impermeable as philosophers would like." [snap] With the game metaphor it's important to remember that it's backed up by the 'family resemblances' concept. That is, a way of grouping similar things without relying on 'essences.' Also i could be wrong, but don't think Wittgenstein EVER flat out said that language was a game or even that any particular person's or people's language was a game. He thought of the idea of 'language games' to model certain aspects of language. My sense of Wittgenstein's thinking is that it explains that conceptual 'change' occurs because cognitive recognition or rhetorical construction of resemblances can change, which affects the boundary of a concept. GAME changes because its intension (the structure of resemblances) can change the extension (things in the world you call a "game") and vice versa. A particular new activity is invented and it changes what exists in the world, and what we call a "game." I think the *source* of this kind of change is really well illustrated in section IIxi of the Philosophical Investigations, where he explores the idea of the organization of perceptions: of seeing aspects and aspect change (Shelley's "before unapprehended relations of things"). Shelley was wrong to ascribe only to poetry a vital metaphoric prerogative. ALL language is "vitally metaphorical." Daily speech ("time passes") and even scientific language ("electrons orbit the nucleus"), especially at the edge. There's a great (apocryphal?) story about Heisenberg and Bohr washing dishes together at a guys-only quantum physics retreat high in the Swiss Alps. Heisenberg turns to Bohr and says, "Our language is like this dishwater. Even though it's dirty we manage to get the dishes clean." Or something to that effect. He meant that while they had math equations to work out theories in, they still needed language to describe the world. The metaphoric strength of language ('waves of light' 'particles of matter') was breaking down for them because the "contradictions" that their math was revealing described reality better than classical mechanics, which all their descriptive language was based on. But somehow, metaphoric neologisms ('wavicle') with a little sense of humor ('quarks' 'colored quarks' and 'quantum chromodynamics'), helped them understand how to interpret the math. I think it's important not to assign poets (or philosophers) a role that requires them to have an essential difference, capacity, insight, etc from everybody else. Conversely i think it's important to allow that the growth, renewal and even corrosion of language is brought about by many types of interlocking uses of language. konrad ^Z ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 19:10:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Events at the Poetry Project 2/21-2/25 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Monday, February 21, 8:00 pm Gail Scott & Jesse Seldess Gail Scott is co-editor of Biting the Error: Writers Explore Narrative (Coach House, 2004). Her novel, My Paris, was published by Dalkey Archive i= n 2003, and her other books include the story collection Spare Parts Plus Two= , and the novels Main Brides and Heroine. Her translation of Michael Delisle=B9= s Le D=E9sarroi du matelot was short-listed for the prestigious Governor General=B9s Award in translation in 2001. She is co-editor of Narrativity, a web magazine on experimental narrative out of the Poetry Center at San Francisco State University, and was co-founder of both Tessera, a bilingual periodical of new writing by women, and Spirale, a French-language critical magazine based in Montr=E9al. Jesse Seldess lives in Chicago, where he works in social services for the elderly, edits Antennae magazine, and co-curates the Discrete Reading and Performance Series (http://www.lavamatic.com/discrete). He is the author of Who Opens (Bronze Skull Press, 2004) and his recent poems have appeared in Crayon, Conundrum, Kiosk, Traverse, Kenning, and First Intensity. =20 Wednesday, February 23, 8:00 pm Ted Greenwald & Lyn Hejinian Ted Greenwald was born in Brooklyn, raised in Queens, and always lives in New York City. His many books of poetry include You Bet!, Licorice Chronicles, Common Sense, Word of Mouth, Jumping the Line, and, most recently, The Up and Up (Atelos, 2004). In 1991 he collaborated on a video with the artist Les Levine, =B3Poker Blues.=B2 Lyn Hejinian=B9s most recently published books include A Border Comedy, My Life in the Nineties, and The Fatalist. The Language of Inquiry, a collection of essays, was published by the University of California Press in 2000. She is co-director (with Travis Ortiz) of Atelos, a literary project commissioning and publishing cross-genre work by poets. Other collaborative projects include Q=FA=EA Tr=E2n with music by John Zorn and text by Hejinian, two mixed media books (The Traveler and the Hill and the Hill and The Lake) created with the painter Emilie Clark, and the award-winning experimental documentary film Letters Not About Love, directed by Jacki Ochs. She teaches in the English Department of the University of California, Berkeley. Friday, February 25, 10:30 pm Funk Cantabile Featuring four emerging writers whose poetry explores a range of poetic heritages including toast, kundiman, hip-hop, and the blues. The work of Roger Bonair-Agard, Tyehimba Jess, Ishle Park, and Patrick Rosal yokes the seemingly disparate relationships between the page and the stage, the virgule and the slash, the local and the manywhere=8Bthat which is funky, tha= t which is =B3worthy to be sung.=B2 ANNOUNCEMENT! Poets are invited to participate in =B3Poetry Through THE GATES=B2 next Saturday, Feb. 26, 1-5pm (raindate Sunday, Feb 27). The idea is for poets t= o read poems and give voice to the visuals =AD two poets will be at each designated site. Also, Colleen Delaney and Douglas Rothschild are putting together a book of poems inspired by THE GATES and poets will be working as poetry ambassadors, providing (supplied to you) paper and pencils for the muse=B9s use, and collecting the spontaneous poems which will then go into th= e book. Or, people can send their poems in later to http://www.poemsinthepark.com. Got that? Well, if you have questions, want to sign up, want a site to be assigned to or want to be in touch: write poemsinthepark@yahoo.com. This message brought to you by the Bowery Poetry Club, who are =B3organizing=B2; designated sites along the Christo-Jeanne-Claud= e route will be listed at http://www.bowerypoetry.com. Nathaniel Siegel is also organizing. WRITING WORKSHOPS AT THE POETRY PROJECT KEEPING IT SIMPLE/LOOKING FOR THE LIGHT =AD PATRICIA SPEARS JONES TUESDAYS AT 7 PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 22ND "The quality of light by which we scrutinize our lives has direct bearing upon the product which we live...It is within this light that we form those ideas by which we pursue our magic and make it realized. This is poetry as illumination." =AD from =B3Poetry is Not a Luxury=B2 by Audre Lorde. =B3This is a poetry workshop that takes the poetry of illumination to mean the poetry of experience. How we scrutinize, how we elucidate our lives through words and rhythms, how we make our poems bring new ways of thinking about our lives. We will focus on the basics: line, stanza, cadence, meter, diction, syntax, and point of view -=AD the elements that make a poem. We will also read contemporary poets including Audre Lorde, Maureen Owen, Amy Gerstler, Shara= n Strange, Lee Young Lee, Jeanne Marie Beaumont, Frank O'Hara, Lorenzo Thomas= , and Bob Kaufman.=B2 Patricia Spears Jones is an award-winning poet and playwright, and author of The Weather That Kills. Students must have submitted 5-10 pg. work samples by FEB. 14. FINDING THE & THEN SOME THERE THERE =AD MERRY FORTUNE THURSDAYS at 7 PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 24TH Film of Dreyer, writing of Mayer, painting of Traylor. An identifiable poet =B3voice=B2 is a desirable, comfortable and utilitarian achievement. But what potential or beautiful mystery lurks beyond carefully cultivated form, tendency, technique, habit and boundary. Exploring the processes, qualities and aesthetics of all art forms we will collectively discover commonalities= , and fearlessly apprehend what we may learn to expand our poetic values and vocabularies as well as our very minds. Merry Fortune is the author of Ghosts By Albert Ayler, Ghosts By Albert Ayler (Futurepoem). HYPNOSIS AND CREATIVITY =AD MAGGIE DUBRIS FRIDAYS AT 7 PM: 5 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 25TH =B3Hypnotic and trance states have been used for centuries by shamans, mystic= s and visionaries. In this five week workshop, we will study techniques for self-hypnosis that allow a writer to easily access the creative flow state. We will explore the use of hypnotic tools to generate images, to increase creative focus, to switch gears from a day job into writing, and to circumvent creative blocks. We will also discuss the use of hypnosis to vividly recall memories, and its use in conjunction with other creative tools such as automatic writing.=B2 A $20 materials fee covers four of Dubris=B9s hypnosis CDs, three of which are specifically geared to writing. Maggie Dubris is the author of Skels (Soft Skull Press 2004), and Weep Not, My Wanton (Black Sparrow Press 2002). She is also employed as a professiona= l hypnotist. CLASS FULL. POETRY AND MUSIC =AD DREW GARDNER FRIDAYS at 7 PM: 5 SESSIONS BEGIN APRIL 8TH =B3A workshop investigating the relation of music and poetry, comparing the languages of poetry and music and asking questions about how they can be combined and how they might illuminate each other. What are the poetic implications of improvisation? What are the musical implications of everyda= y speech? What does our experience of poetry imply about how we experience sound and how does our listening affect our writing? We will read and liste= n to Harry Partch, Morton Feldman, Leo Smith, Pauline Oliveros, Thoreau, Nathaniel Mackey and others, keep listening notebooks and collaborate with guest musicians. No musical background required.=B2 Drew Gardner is the autho= r of Sugar Pill (Krupskaya) and conducts the Poetics Orchestra, an ensemble featuring poetry and structured improvisation. A LAB: POST-CONCEPTUAL POETRIES =AD ROBERT FITTERMAN SATURDAYS AT 12PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 26 =B3What happens when we ask ourselves not if the poem =B3could have been done better, but whether it could have been done otherwise=B2 (Dworkin). In post-conceptual writing, the expression is realized in the process. This workshop will be a hands-on writing lab. Each week we will write poems in-class generated by borrowed models from contemporary, 21st Century poetry. Some of these experiments might include: sampling, bastardization, procedural writing, mixed media, collaboration, etc.=B2 Robert Fitterman is the author of 9 books of poetry including: Metropolis XXX (Edge Books), Metropolis 16-29 (Coach House Press) and Metropolis 1-15 (Sun & Moon Press)= . The workshop fee is $300, which includes a one-year individual Poetry Project membership and tuition for any and all fall and spring classes. Reservations are required due to limited class space and payment must be received in advance. Please send payment and reservations to: The Poetry Project, St. Mark=B9s Church, 131 E. 10th St., NY, NY 10003. For more information please call (212) 674-0910 or e-mail info@poetryproject.com. We do accept payment via credit cards. You can either submit $ at www.paypal.com, or call the office with your number: 212-674-0910. Thanks! The WINTER CALENDAR: http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 19:55:34 -0500 Reply-To: Anastasios Kozaitis Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: Help NARAL kill babies In-Reply-To: <200502171651.LAA00754@webmail1.cac.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What's more odd to me has been Ron's silence on that matter. Was he hacked/spammed or in honest favor of the email's message & sentiment? This is what I find intriguing. I checked to see if Silliman's Blog was down, and from all appearances, it's jugging right along. As for the violent and hate-filled sentiment and message of that email, I find them very believable in this "culture" of ours. --Ak On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 11:51:44 -0500, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > there are any number of oddities about this message -- which makes it a perfect > exemplum of the difficulties of interpretation. no? the second part makes it > hard to read the first part as ironic in quite the way you might at first wish > to -- the entire thing is so over the top that it would not find a happy home > even with many right-to-life Catholics -- (the tone is quite unlike the tone of > MODEST PROPOSAL, for example) -- though it might sit well with the Randall > Terrys and Alan Keyes of this world -- > > and the second part of the message appears to make a number of truly strange > assumptions about the social class and background of people likely to get > abortions -- > > and an aside -- why is it that in the American politcal context, constant > reference is made to the Vatican's opposition to abortion, while we seldom hear > about the Vatican's equally vehement objections to the USA's penchant for > executions? asked ex-Baptist Aldon . . . > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 17:09:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: shing02: rap activist, peace advocate, music explorer MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit " The ultimate reward is honor not awards At odds with the times in wars with no Lords, a Freelancer A battle cry of a hawk make a dove fly and a tear dry Wonder why a lone wolf don't run with a klan Only trust your instincts and be one with the Plan" --battle cry shing02 alias: vector omega, knock two crew: freelancers utd, the knocks, kosmic renaissance photo: kaori annen mask: mr.44 Shing02 - rap activist, peace advocate, music explorer. Born in Tokyo 1975, raised in Tanzania, England, and Japan. Shing02 landed in California at the age of 15, and soon thereafter got involved in creating art, which was the first love. After a move to Berkeley for schooling he became immersed in the local scene which also nurtured dozens of creative hiphop acts. Eventually in '96 Shing02's music made its way back to Japan, partnered with Mr. Higo of Mary Joy Recordings, garnering tremendous support in his homeland. Currently residing in Oakland, he's working on music with his new collective "FREELANCERS UN1TED" (Freelancers = Knights without a Lord), and as 1/2 of production crew "The Knocks" with Doc Max. Currently envisioning new music as the inventor of the vestax "faderboard". Check for his latest creations as he intends to father some art that blends the cultural boundaries. Black Is Beautiful Black is beautiful to me Wake up brethren Asian persuasion Black is beautiful to me Love Self sistren Asian persuasion Black is beautiful to me Respect brethren African persuasion Black is beautiful to me One Love sistren African persuasion Afro-centric music is the roots but Ever since birth I've wondered Who, what, when, which, how did we get to this place Island culture cultivate the race Faces, basic smiles speak a thousand words That go a million miles Until we realize that we gotta stay true Despite the lies, read between the lines And move forward Oh Lord Heritage manifest in the color of the mane of our men and women New born, blessed with natural melanin Living and shine like filaments Pitch black hair, rich black eyes Capture the rapture of mother nature Beyond Africa, Pan Pacifica, Antarctica to South America Health before wealth in the kingdom of righteous Fight until death do us part and I might just Travel to the depth of the heart of Atlantis Pledge to the state of the art so I plan this Expedition as my mission all the while Competition lose not knowing why Til the day I chill in the east of the River Nile Real skill, real deal never go out of style yeah Who wanna test their blackness? Let me guess, fake jocks frontin' like Loch Ness Life blessed you to look the best When you're dressed with less but cover the rest Some kids with straight strands want dread locks Some girls with a fro want to straighten their chops It's all good we all grow out of it just like hair-do You gotta vibe and flow with it just like air do 'Round the globe youth carry the hope That one day everything's gonna be just fine now Press rewind to a world color blind Zero complex, find a space all mine I grew up on the East Coast, opposite of Ivory In the 21st, reckon economic slavery Beyond Africa, Latin America, through Jamaica back to Japonica Man and machine make the money that manipulate Mind over matter meaning make moves to motivate Before we globalize commercially We need to mobilize community to spread the music with mercy 'Cuz exploitation is the blast from the past Conversation help future visions last Til the day I fill the post I'm supposed to live by Real skill, real deal never go out of style yeah Black is beautiful to me Respect all state, all color, all race Black is beautiful to me One love, one god, one mind, one heart INI, You and I, realize U-N-I-T-Y INI, You and I, realize U-N-I-T-Y Receive, Respect, Reflect Pass it on, pass it on, pass it on Receive, Respect, Reflect Pass it on, pass it on, pass it on free downloads: http://www.e22.com/shing02/index.htm ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ } ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 17:35:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Poetry by the Sea- please circulate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Crashing waves... Pinot Noir.... Poetry.... Long Beach Museum of Art Presents Author Catherine Daly, and New Issues' authors Louise Mathias & Barbara Maloutas reading from recent work Thursday, February 24th, 7pm 2300 Ocean Boulevard Long Beach, CA 90803 www.lbma.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 20:37:53 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Naral Again... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I assume Ron is too busy blogging along to read this list...but the post rite after his...under my e-mail address was not written by me...so i guess it was a hoax, spam, game, pose, psuedopsuedonym.... personally if anybody wants to be Harry Nudel..or Drn...they're welcome to bear the load...what's you're name...noooone ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:01:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Next Poet Lariat? In-Reply-To: <15384764.1108690674272.JavaMail.root@wamui01.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > February 11, 2005 > Next up for Ashcroft: Poet Laureate? > Former Attorney General John Ashcroft is a top contender to become the > next > Poet Laureate of the United States, say insiders. But the man who > penned > "Let the Eagle Soar" faces a stiff challenge from the favored > candidate of > conservative Christians: Roy Moore, former Alabama chief justice, and > the > author of "Our American Birthright." > > > Some poets balk at idea of appointing a 'one-poem' poet > > By Deanna Swift > > WASHINGTON, DC-When Former Attorney General John Ashcroft bid a fond > farewell to public service last month, he was intentionally vague > about his > plans for the future. Ashcroft has said only that he plans to remain > in the > Washington D.C. area and will give speeches. > > But sources close to Ashcroft say that he has his eye on a very > different > prize these days: he wants to be the nation's next top bard, otherwise > known > as the Poet Laureate Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress. > Were > Ashcroft to succeed in landing the coveted post, the man often > criticized > for being a Bush administration "lightening rod" would have an > opportunity > to be an official lightning rod: for the poetic impulse of Americans. > > It's the job of the Poet Laureate, who serves for seven months and > receives > a $35,000 stipend, to raise the national consciousness to a greater > appreciation of the reading and writing of poetry. > > How high can the eagle soar? > Ashcroft's poetry credentials are based largely on the strength of a > single > verse, a lyric-ode hybrid entitled "Let the Eagle Soar." Fans of the > former > attorney general praise his skillful use of masculine syllable endings > and > strong end rhymes in "Eagle," placing him in the tradition of > Longfellow, > Byron, even Francis Scott Key. President Bush sent a signal of his > strong > support for Ashcroft's candidacy by making "Eagle" a centerpiece of his > swearing-in ceremony in January. Guy Hovis, a Mississippi native and > long-time performer on "The Lawrence Welk Show," performed the lyric > ode. > > "Let the eagle soar, > Like she's never soared before. > From rocky coast to golden shore, > Let the mighty eagle soar. > Soar with healing in her wings, > As the land beneath her sings: > 'Only god, no other kings.' > This country's far too young to die. > We've still got a lot of climbing to do, > And we can make it if we try. > Built by toils and struggles > God has led us through." > > > If Ashcroft successfully lands the position of primary poet, he'll > replace > Ted Kooser, selected to the post last fall, and the first Poet > Laureate from > the Great Plains. > > From the right: conservative couplets > While Ashcroft might seem like a shoe-in for the job, he's not the top > choice of conservative religious leaders, despite their support for > Ashcroft > during his tenure as attorney general. The Coalition for Traditional > Values, > which includes leaders of pro-family groups such as the American Family > Organization, the Campaign for Families and the Baptist Leadership > Council, > has thrown its support behind former Alabama chief Justice Roy Moore, > author > of the 1998 poem "Our American Birthright." > > Our American Birthright > > One nation under God was their cry and declaration, > Upon the law of Nature's God they built a mighty Nation. > For Unlike Mankind before them who had walked this earthen sod, > These men would never question the Sovereignty of God. > > That all men were created was a truth "self-evident," > To secure the rights God gave us was the role of government. > And if any form of government became destructive of this end, > It was their right, their duty, a new one to begin. > > So with a firm reliance on Divine Providence for protection, > They pledged their sacred honor and sought His wise direction. > They lifted an appeal to God for all the world to see, > And declared their independence forever to be free. > > I'm glad they're not with us to see the mess we're in, > How we've given up our righteousness for a life of indulgent sin. > For when abortion isn't murder and sodomy is deemed a right, > Then evil is now called good and darkness is now called light. > > While truth and law were founded on the God of all Creation, > Man now, through law, denies the truth and calls it "separation." > No longer does man see a need for God when he's in full control, > For the only truth self-evident is in the latest poll. > > But with man as his own master we fail to count the cost, > Our precious freedoms vanish and our liberty is lost. > Children are told they can't pray and they teach them evolution, > When will they learn the fear of God is the only true solution. > > Our schools have become the battleground while all across the land, > Christians shrug their shoulders afraid to take a stand. > And from the grave their voices cry the victory has been won > Just glorify the Father as did His only Son. > > When your work on earth is done, and you've traveled where we've trod, > You'll leave the land we left to you, One Nation Under God! > > "These are both godly men, but we believe that Roy Moore will make the > better Poet Laureate," says Sandy Slokum, executive director of Defend > Our > Marriages, a pro-family group that advocates defending marriage by > adding a > ban on adultery to the constitution. While Slokum praises Ashcroft's > "Eagle," she insists that Moore will do a better job of returning > poetry to > the family. "He's working on a beautiful poem called 'Ring of Gold' > about > traditional marriage and how God intended it to be the union of one > man and > one woman." > > Moore is best known not for his poetry, but for his intriguing > position on > the separation between church and state. Moore gained notoriety after > he > refused to remove a massive concrete statue of the Ten Commandments > from his > office in 2003. > > Poetry meets politics > Not everyone is happy about the prospect that either Ashcroft or Moore > could > soon be the most prominent poet in the country. Some critics point out > that > this is probably the first time since the Library of Congress > established > the Poetry and Literature Center in 1936 that a candidate is being > considered on the basis of a single poem. "This is outrageous on the > face of > it," says Donald Merkin, poet in residence at Eastern Illinois College > and > the author of Slaughter in the Chicken House: an Elegy. "The role of > the > Poet Laureate is to act as an ambassador of literary arts. Poets in the > community worry Ashcroft will serve as a poetic mouthpiece for the Bush > administration." > > This is not the first time that the poetry position has been dogged by > controversy. Communist William Carlos Williams was appointed in 1952 > but > never served. Williams' appointment was revoked with the understanding > that > he could be re-instated once he completed "loyalty procedures," but > his term > ended before he was able to prove that he wasn't a communist. > > Slokum and others complain that position of Poet Laureate has too > often been > meted out on the basis of political correctness, rather than the > righteousness of the poetry. Of the 38 people appointed poet > consultant or > laureate, eight have been women and two, African-American. ================================================= "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn ================================================= For updates on readings, etc. check my current events page: http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html ================================================= Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 19:33:16 -0800 Reply-To: bowering@sfu.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Next Poet Lariat? Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary MIME-Version: 1.0 God, I hope this is a joke. But watching what is allowed to happen in the US, one cannot exclude anything. gb On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:01:29 -0500 POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU wrote: > > February 11, 2005 > > Next up for Ashcroft: Poet Laureate? > > Former Attorney General John Ashcroft is a top contender to become the > > next > > Poet Laureate of the United States, say insiders. But the man who > > penned > > "Let the Eagle Soar" faces a stiff challenge from the favored > > candidate of > > conservative Christians: Roy Moore, former Alabama chief justice, and > > the > > author of "Our American Birthright." > > > > > > Some poets balk at idea of appointing a 'one-poem' poet > > > > By Deanna Swift > > > > WASHINGTON, DC-When Former Attorney General John Ashcroft bid a fond > > farewell to public service last month, he was intentionally vague > > about his > > plans for the future. Ashcroft has said only that he plans to remain > > in the > > Washington D.C. area and will give speeches. > > > > But sources close to Ashcroft say that he has his eye on a very > > different > > prize these days: he wants to be the nation's next top bard, otherwise > > known > > as the Poet Laureate Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress. > > Were > > Ashcroft to succeed in landing the coveted post, the man often > > criticized > > for being a Bush administration "lightening rod" would have an > > opportunity > > to be an official lightning rod: for the poetic impulse of Americans. > > > > It's the job of the Poet Laureate, who serves for seven months and > > receives > > a $35,000 stipend, to raise the national consciousness to a greater > > appreciation of the reading and writing of poetry. > > > > How high can the eagle soar? > > Ashcroft's poetry credentials are based largely on the strength of a > > single > > verse, a lyric-ode hybrid entitled "Let the Eagle Soar." Fans of the > > former > > attorney general praise his skillful use of masculine syllable endings > > and > > strong end rhymes in "Eagle," placing him in the tradition of > > Longfellow, > > Byron, even Francis Scott Key. President Bush sent a signal of his > > strong > > support for Ashcroft's candidacy by making "Eagle" a centerpiece of his > > swearing-in ceremony in January. Guy Hovis, a Mississippi native and > > long-time performer on "The Lawrence Welk Show," performed the lyric > > ode. > > > > "Let the eagle soar, > > Like she's never soared before. > > From rocky coast to golden shore, > > Let the mighty eagle soar. > > Soar with healing in her wings, > > As the land beneath her sings: > > 'Only god, no other kings.' > > This country's far too young to die. > > We've still got a lot of climbing to do, > > And we can make it if we try. > > Built by toils and struggles > > God has led us through." > > > > > > If Ashcroft successfully lands the position of primary poet, he'll > > replace > > Ted Kooser, selected to the post last fall, and the first Poet > > Laureate from > > the Great Plains. > > > > From the right: conservative couplets > > While Ashcroft might seem like a shoe-in for the job, he's not the top > > choice of conservative religious leaders, despite their support for > > Ashcroft > > during his tenure as attorney general. The Coalition for Traditional > > Values, > > which includes leaders of pro-family groups such as the American Family > > Organization, the Campaign for Families and the Baptist Leadership > > Council, > > has thrown its support behind former Alabama chief Justice Roy Moore, > > author > > of the 1998 poem "Our American Birthright." > > > > Our American Birthright > > > > One nation under God was their cry and declaration, > > Upon the law of Nature's God they built a mighty Nation. > > For Unlike Mankind before them who had walked this earthen sod, > > These men would never question the Sovereignty of God. > > > > That all men were created was a truth "self-evident," > > To secure the rights God gave us was the role of government. > > And if any form of government became destructive of this end, > > It was their right, their duty, a new one to begin. > > > > So with a firm reliance on Divine Providence for protection, > > They pledged their sacred honor and sought His wise direction. > > They lifted an appeal to God for all the world to see, > > And declared their independence forever to be free. > > > > I'm glad they're not with us to see the mess we're in, > > How we've given up our righteousness for a life of indulgent sin. > > For when abortion isn't murder and sodomy is deemed a right, > > Then evil is now called good and darkness is now called light. > > > > While truth and law were founded on the God of all Creation, > > Man now, through law, denies the truth and calls it "separation." > > No longer does man see a need for God when he's in full control, > > For the only truth self-evident is in the latest poll. > > > > But with man as his own master we fail to count the cost, > > Our precious freedoms vanish and our liberty is lost. > > Children are told they can't pray and they teach them evolution, > > When will they learn the fear of God is the only true solution. > > > > Our schools have become the battleground while all across the land, > > Christians shrug their shoulders afraid to take a stand. > > And from the grave their voices cry the victory has been won > > Just glorify the Father as did His only Son. > > > > When your work on earth is done, and you've traveled where we've trod, > > You'll leave the land we left to you, One Nation Under God! > > > > "These are both godly men, but we believe that Roy Moore will make the > > better Poet Laureate," says Sandy Slokum, executive director of Defend > > Our > > Marriages, a pro-family group that advocates defending marriage by > > adding a > > ban on adultery to the constitution. While Slokum praises Ashcroft's > > "Eagle," she insists that Moore will do a better job of returning > > poetry to > > the family. "He's working on a beautiful poem called 'Ring of Gold' > > about > > traditional marriage and how God intended it to be the union of one > > man and > > one woman." > > > > Moore is best known not for his poetry, but for his intriguing > > position on > > the separation between church and state. Moore gained notoriety after > > he > > refused to remove a massive concrete statue of the Ten Commandments > > from his > > office in 2003. > > > > Poetry meets politics > > Not everyone is happy about the prospect that either Ashcroft or Moore > > could > > soon be the most prominent poet in the country. Some critics point out > > that > > this is probably the first time since the Library of Congress > > established > > the Poetry and Literature Center in 1936 that a candidate is being > > considered on the basis of a single poem. "This is outrageous on the > > face of > > it," says Donald Merkin, poet in residence at Eastern Illinois College > > and > > the author of Slaughter in the Chicken House: an Elegy. "The role of > > the > > Poet Laureate is to act as an ambassador of literary arts. Poets in the > > community worry Ashcroft will serve as a poetic mouthpiece for the Bush > > administration." > > > > This is not the first time that the poetry position has been dogged by > > controversy. Communist William Carlos Williams was appointed in 1952 > > but > > never served. Williams' appointment was revoked with the understanding > > that > > he could be re-instated once he completed "loyalty procedures," but > > his term > > ended before he was able to prove that he wasn't a communist. > > > > Slokum and others complain that position of Poet Laureate has too > > often been > > meted out on the basis of political correctness, rather than the > > righteousness of the poetry. Of the 38 people appointed poet > > consultant or > > laureate, eight have been women and two, African-American. > > > ================================================= > "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn > ================================================= > For updates on readings, etc. check my current events page: > http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html > ================================================= > Pierre Joris > 244 Elm Street > Albany NY 12202 > h: 518 426 0433 > c: 518 225 7123 > o: 518 442 40 85 > email: joris@albany.edu > http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ > ================================================= > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:33:54 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: Next Poet Lariat? In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Wow, is this a joke? I downloaded that amazing little vid of Ashcroft's inspiring performance, but I can't believe people take this stuff seriously. You see my limitation. I wonder what the difference is between "political correctness" and "righteousness"? Are you considering emigration, Pierre? All the best A Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:45:42 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Abuse After Aristide:U.S. Sponsored Terror Returns Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Abuse After Aristide's Ouster: Less Than A Year After Former Haiti President Was Run Out, Observers Say U.S. Sponsored Terror Has "Again Launched A Tsunami Of Oppression Against Haitians": By READ HEARSAY They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:56:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: Next Poet Lariat? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As I posted last year there's an alarming, "serious" groundswell of bcking for the "Alabama God-Damn" Judge Moore. And he's quite prolific. And... from those who follow this sort of thing-- there's a book dure out soon. But, please, if we must go this route, what about J.C., the man from Plains. At least this dreadful poet would be (in many ways) an anathama to many... ... and then there's MacLiesh... Cheers, Gerald Schwartz counting the red-state ballots for poet-lar... >> February 11, 2005 >> Next up for Ashcroft: Poet Laureate? >> Former Attorney General John Ashcroft is a top contender to become the >> next >> Poet Laureate of the United States, say insiders. But the man who >> penned >> "Let the Eagle Soar" faces a stiff challenge from the favored >> candidate of >> conservative Christians: Roy Moore, former Alabama chief justice, and >> the >> author of "Our American Birthright." >> >> >> Some poets balk at idea of appointing a 'one-poem' poet >> >> By Deanna Swift >> >> WASHINGTON, DC-When Former Attorney General John Ashcroft bid a fond >> farewell to public service last month, he was intentionally vague >> about his >> plans for the future. Ashcroft has said only that he plans to remain >> in the >> Washington D.C. area and will give speeches. >> >> But sources close to Ashcroft say that he has his eye on a very >> different >> prize these days: he wants to be the nation's next top bard, otherwise >> known >> as the Poet Laureate Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress. >> Were >> Ashcroft to succeed in landing the coveted post, the man often >> criticized >> for being a Bush administration "lightening rod" would have an >> opportunity >> to be an official lightning rod: for the poetic impulse of Americans. >> >> It's the job of the Poet Laureate, who serves for seven months and >> receives >> a $35,000 stipend, to raise the national consciousness to a greater >> appreciation of the reading and writing of poetry. >> >> How high can the eagle soar? >> Ashcroft's poetry credentials are based largely on the strength of a >> single >> verse, a lyric-ode hybrid entitled "Let the Eagle Soar." Fans of the >> former >> attorney general praise his skillful use of masculine syllable endings >> and >> strong end rhymes in "Eagle," placing him in the tradition of >> Longfellow, >> Byron, even Francis Scott Key. President Bush sent a signal of his >> strong >> support for Ashcroft's candidacy by making "Eagle" a centerpiece of his >> swearing-in ceremony in January. Guy Hovis, a Mississippi native and >> long-time performer on "The Lawrence Welk Show," performed the lyric >> ode. >> >> "Let the eagle soar, >> Like she's never soared before. >> From rocky coast to golden shore, >> Let the mighty eagle soar. >> Soar with healing in her wings, >> As the land beneath her sings: >> 'Only god, no other kings.' >> This country's far too young to die. >> We've still got a lot of climbing to do, >> And we can make it if we try. >> Built by toils and struggles >> God has led us through." >> >> >> If Ashcroft successfully lands the position of primary poet, he'll >> replace >> Ted Kooser, selected to the post last fall, and the first Poet >> Laureate from >> the Great Plains. >> >> From the right: conservative couplets >> While Ashcroft might seem like a shoe-in for the job, he's not the top >> choice of conservative religious leaders, despite their support for >> Ashcroft >> during his tenure as attorney general. The Coalition for Traditional >> Values, >> which includes leaders of pro-family groups such as the American Family >> Organization, the Campaign for Families and the Baptist Leadership >> Council, >> has thrown its support behind former Alabama chief Justice Roy Moore, >> author >> of the 1998 poem "Our American Birthright." >> >> Our American Birthright >> >> One nation under God was their cry and declaration, >> Upon the law of Nature's God they built a mighty Nation. >> For Unlike Mankind before them who had walked this earthen sod, >> These men would never question the Sovereignty of God. >> >> That all men were created was a truth "self-evident," >> To secure the rights God gave us was the role of government. >> And if any form of government became destructive of this end, >> It was their right, their duty, a new one to begin. >> >> So with a firm reliance on Divine Providence for protection, >> They pledged their sacred honor and sought His wise direction. >> They lifted an appeal to God for all the world to see, >> And declared their independence forever to be free. >> >> I'm glad they're not with us to see the mess we're in, >> How we've given up our righteousness for a life of indulgent sin. >> For when abortion isn't murder and sodomy is deemed a right, >> Then evil is now called good and darkness is now called light. >> >> While truth and law were founded on the God of all Creation, >> Man now, through law, denies the truth and calls it "separation." >> No longer does man see a need for God when he's in full control, >> For the only truth self-evident is in the latest poll. >> >> But with man as his own master we fail to count the cost, >> Our precious freedoms vanish and our liberty is lost. >> Children are told they can't pray and they teach them evolution, >> When will they learn the fear of God is the only true solution. >> >> Our schools have become the battleground while all across the land, >> Christians shrug their shoulders afraid to take a stand. >> And from the grave their voices cry the victory has been won >> Just glorify the Father as did His only Son. >> >> When your work on earth is done, and you've traveled where we've trod, >> You'll leave the land we left to you, One Nation Under God! >> >> "These are both godly men, but we believe that Roy Moore will make the >> better Poet Laureate," says Sandy Slokum, executive director of Defend >> Our >> Marriages, a pro-family group that advocates defending marriage by >> adding a >> ban on adultery to the constitution. While Slokum praises Ashcroft's >> "Eagle," she insists that Moore will do a better job of returning >> poetry to >> the family. "He's working on a beautiful poem called 'Ring of Gold' >> about >> traditional marriage and how God intended it to be the union of one >> man and >> one woman." >> >> Moore is best known not for his poetry, but for his intriguing >> position on >> the separation between church and state. Moore gained notoriety after >> he >> refused to remove a massive concrete statue of the Ten Commandments >> from his >> office in 2003. >> >> Poetry meets politics >> Not everyone is happy about the prospect that either Ashcroft or Moore >> could >> soon be the most prominent poet in the country. Some critics point out >> that >> this is probably the first time since the Library of Congress >> established >> the Poetry and Literature Center in 1936 that a candidate is being >> considered on the basis of a single poem. "This is outrageous on the >> face of >> it," says Donald Merkin, poet in residence at Eastern Illinois College >> and >> the author of Slaughter in the Chicken House: an Elegy. "The role of >> the >> Poet Laureate is to act as an ambassador of literary arts. Poets in the >> community worry Ashcroft will serve as a poetic mouthpiece for the Bush >> administration." >> >> This is not the first time that the poetry position has been dogged by >> controversy. Communist William Carlos Williams was appointed in 1952 >> but >> never served. Williams' appointment was revoked with the understanding >> that >> he could be re-instated once he completed "loyalty procedures," but >> his term >> ended before he was able to prove that he wasn't a communist. >> >> Slokum and others complain that position of Poet Laureate has too >> often been >> meted out on the basis of political correctness, rather than the >> righteousness of the poetry. Of the 38 people appointed poet >> consultant or >> laureate, eight have been women and two, African-American. > > > ================================================= > "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn > ================================================= > For updates on readings, etc. check my current events page: > http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html > ================================================= > Pierre Joris > 244 Elm Street > Albany NY 12202 > h: 518 426 0433 > c: 518 225 7123 > o: 518 442 40 85 > email: joris@albany.edu > http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ > ================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 23:23:43 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Naral Again... Comments: To: nudel-soho@MINDSPRING.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 02/17/05 8:38:13 PM, nudel-soho@MINDSPRING.COM writes: > I assume Ron is too busy blogging along > to read this list...but the post rite after > his...under my e-mail address was not > written by me...so i guess it was a hoax, > spam, game, pose, psuedopsuedonym.... > personally if anybody wants to be Harry > Nudel..or Drn...they're welcome to bear > the load...what's you're name...noooone > The comment "et tu Ron" was not yours? Murat ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 00:04:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Stealing miEKAL, aND MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Stealing miEKAL, aND mIEKAL aND Re: ))))))) [[[[[[[[[ pale]]]]]]]]]]shores((((((((( k10% hello miEKAL this is an identity theft. ksh: hello: not found k11% i now have your identity. ksh: i: not found k12% can you guess what your identity "is"? ksh: can: not found k13% perhaps you guess and then you can have your identity back. ksh: perhaps: not found k14% it is very good you have guess Cythia! Looking up Cythia! firstwww.Cythia!.com, guessing...edunetorg Getting file://localhost/net/u/6/s/sondheim/Cythia! Can't Access `file://localhost/net/u/6/s/sondheim/Cythia!' Alert!: Unable to access document. Looking up Cythia! first Looking up www.Cythia!.com, guessing... Looking up www.Cythia!.edu, guessing... Looking up www.Cythia!.net, guessing... Looking up www.Cythia!.org, guessing... Can't Access `file://localhost/net/u/6/s/sondheim/Cythia!' Alert!: Unable to access document. lynx: Can't access startfile k15% you are right! Cythia your identity! ksh: you: not found k16% i will give your identity back and you will have your identity! ksh: i: not found k17% it is so wonderful to be give back your identity here it is! Looking up is! firstwww.is!.com, guessing...edunetorg Getting file://localhost/net/u/6/s/sondheim/is! Can't Access `file://localhost/net/u/6/s/sondheim/is!' Alert!: Unable to access document. Looking up is! first Looking up www.is!.com, guessing... Looking up www.is!.edu, guessing... Looking up www.is!.net, guessing... Looking up www.is!.org, guessing... Can't Access `file://localhost/net/u/6/s/sondheim/is!' Alert!: Unable to access document. lynx: Can't access startfile k18% identity over and thank you! you MiEKAL! ksh: identity: not found k19% thank you! k20% thank you! k21% thank you! ___ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 21:39:07 -0800 Reply-To: Christopher Filkins Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Filkins Subject: addresses In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "I'ts dark, we're on a bus that goes to who knws where n Emma's carrying a rose tht isnt 4 her! im not 2timin u it was a one off" , "(*) Bad Boy 4 Life (*)<:o) 3 days till ma bday<:o)" , "(8)is their anyone out there,coz its getting harder and harder to beathe(8)" , "\\(A\\)=AE%=A9=AB=D1=E5T=E5=A3=EC=CB=AB=A9%=AE= \\(A\\)\\(L\\)=A4If it w=EAr=EA =A7uppo=A7=EAd 2 f=EA=EAl good th=EAy would=F1't call it =E5 cr= u=A7h=A4\\(U\\)" , "(u)(w):[ Tollz :[(w)(u) | My Fall Will Be For You, My Love Will Be In You | 23 Wifeys, WANT MORE! Will You Marry Me? |" , *~*xX_kinks_Xx*~*but u neva really listen to me becos im telling u the truth i mean this im ok TRUST ME !!!!!!HARRRR , *Sparkle!* And away! , ":)(Y) If Something Is Worth Doing Its Worth Over Doing (Y):)" , ":D Marty Baby :D" , ? =D0?=D1 ? =A9T , "=D7=BA=B0\"~`\"=B0=BA=D7|<=AAt=EA '=F1 M=E5= =AEt=EE=F1 =D7=BA=B0\"~`\"=B0=BA=D7 4 =E9v=C1" , "=A4=A5=A4=A5=A4\\(H\\)=A9h=AE=EE=A7 J= =E3g=A7;\\)=A4=A5=A4=A5=A4 a.k.a ^CaPaDr E^ lovin \\(L\\)Brittney\\(L\\)" , "=B7#=B7$4 (u ) Suicide is romantic with its inti macy, just you and whatever you imagine (u )" , "=B2=B0=B04 *. =B8=B8. =B7=B4=A8`=BB Love Is W= hen You Don' t Want To Go To Sleep Because Reality Is Better Than A Dre am ? ? =B2=B0=B04" , Ben&Paul - Bathed In Your Radianc= e I Melt , Can I Touch Your Cam-Le-Corder? Can I Watch The Telivissle? , Cheeks- Brewed to Perfection , "Chloe....." , Daddy's Little Girl!! , Daren Bray , Daz , death is not the end it is just a new part of life , em , Everyones entitled to be stupid but you are abusing it , greatestno1@bbc.co.uk, Happiness is like wetting ur pants every1 can c it but only u can feel it's warmth , "Hender - (F) I'm a rose blooming in the desert (F)" , Jack - Thouroghly Enjoying Granny Porn , jennifer ranson , "love is a waste of space (L)" , "maddy- boozed, broozed & broken-boned (the morning after)" , "mark - Sunday morning, clouds in the sky. With out warning, Mark walks by!" , Me , Metall!cA , "Paul - Mama's Goin' to Worry, I've been a Bad Bad Boy" , "Rob - Nobody Can Save Me, Nobody Can Say What I'll Do If I'm Alone..." , Sarah Matthewson , scott , "see the idiot chalk up his name on the blackboard." , Socialist Party Enquiries , Spence , steph quinn = , Steve Forbes was an alien ~ he doesn't blink! , "Times and trends change,but skateboarding is forever!!" , "WARNING DANGER DANGER.......... VIRUS DETECTED.......YOUR COMPUTER IS INFECTED.......YOUR PUBLIC PROFILE HAS BEEN EDITED.Michael" , "When The Light Cuts Off, So Does Your Head, Cos The Boogie oogie oogie Man's Under Your Bed!(*)I Wish I Was A Girl!(*)" , "when things change i stay the same, holding my last breathe as my life drownds in the rain" , "Wrighty- And it all boils down to the same old pain(8)" , "x-April-x : The.Stars.Will.Cry.The.Blackest.Tears.Tonight :" , XxkissingxX04@aol.com, yo bints!!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 01:25:37 -0500 Reply-To: jUStin!katKO Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jUStin!katKO Subject: SCHEME! Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" In-Reply-To: <397c8751bc41dd0c2259b6a73bc54ee2@mwt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dear friends it would mostly side-flip all pink-shifts if you would visit my new book SCHEME! @ http://www.users.muohio.edu/katkojn/SCHEME!.htm which is a 21 .jpgs version of a handmade book made for viewing and trading, 50 copies total if you would like a SCHEME! snail-mailed to you as a gift, please snail mail me a similiar gift & email me to let me know before you do so, b/c i have already mailed a SCHEME! to either those of you with whom i am in personal contact or those of you who maintain libraries that i am aware of if you maintain a secret library, please inform me directly hugs and kissies, jUStin!katKO ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 05:20:32 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ( ) dawn....this space available.....drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 00:28:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: 4' 33" Carefully Composed Silence Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Cage is clearly a great thinker poet artist musician - but - just talking of his famous silence omits what I think - from my limited knowledge of his work - what seems to be his accomplishment - is interest in chance plus his ideas including that music move beyond the "organised" or predetermined etc and that idea of his that involves very much his audience - but of course as in the problematic "death of the author concept (as Alan eg comments on and there was a debate on the D of the A once on here before) Cage of course is still an individual "author" behind his works- but ideas from his works/philosophy etc include the idea of feeling that one (the audience / the performers) can interprete music much more freely - can participate - can appreciate being alive and listening -- as in jazz and indeed even in Bach and Beethoven and all those guys - but more so - the idea that sounds themselves of the 'real world' are incorporated - what is composed - what is artifice - what's more beautiful or more interesting - sounds we hear or composed music? "That's God " "A shout in the street" - is there any untimate silence - he went into a soundless chamber - I forget the term for it - but he realised he couldn't "escape' sound - the mind creates sound - and the involvement of the audience - interesting ideas by an innovative musician/writer etc And Cage's ideas contributed to a degree of liberation from the set - forms etc - I don't understand it all but those are some ideas I get from Cage... Silence can be terrifying and extraordinary beautiful. And I heard a musician describing her performance of the 4' 33" and she had to work on it very hard - not trivia - and Cage actually 'composed' the silent parts as well or as assiduoulsy as other composers compose their music: it was constructed silence - composed silence - and he scored and wrote tempus for the silence music - or at least he had bars etc carefuly and assiduously composed silence. Richard Taylor Auckland - New Zealand richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet ("Well..." ) / Chess Addict (partly recovered) /Was 15 stone - working on it -/ Grandfather/ BA /NZCE/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: --------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."---------------------- ASPECT BOOKS www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aldon Nielsen" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 11:26 AM Subject: Re: 4' 33" > >> one of the more over the top performances was seen on a public television >> broadcast years ago -- a piano was placed in heavy traffic (round it was, >> and of a port in air) in, I think maybe Boston Common or Cambridge -- >> whichever, you get the idea -- >> >> of course it worked, but I wondered at the time about the many renditions >> of this that deliberately put themselves in the way of as much noise as >> possible, almost as if not trusting to the composer and the audience and >> the ambience -- >> >> At 01:53 PM 2/16/2005, you wrote: >>>Yes. It was probably Tilbury who first performed it in UK. I always found >>>the fact that both names begin with T confusing ;) >>> >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: UB Poetics discussion group >>> > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Glenn Bach >>> > Sent: 16 February 2005 16:37 >>> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> > Subject: 4' 33" >>> > >>> > > Well it's true that it got its first peformance by a pianist (John >>> > > Tilbury?), who I believe marked the beginning and end by >>> > raising and >>> > > lowering the lid. I think there are other versions scored for other >>> > > ensembles. >>> > >>> > I'm on digest mode, so I don't know if anyone else brought >>> > this up, but it was David Tudor who first performed 4'33" at >>> > a concert in Woodstock. >>> > The piece is in three parts, and Tudor lowered and raised >>> > the lid of the keyboard to signal the beginnings and endings >>> > of each movement. >>> > >>> > There are actually several versions of the score, one of them >>> > including instructions to the musicians with one of my >>> > favorite words, "TACET." >>> > >>> > An interesting website of research behind the piece and its >>> > development and performance: >>> > http://music.research.home.att.net/4min33se.htm >>> > >>> > G. >>> > >>> > >> >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> "and now it's winter in America" >> --Gil Scott-Heron >> >> >> Aldon Lynn Nielsen >> George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature >> Department of English >> The Pennsylvania State University >> 116 Burrowes >> University Park, PA 16802-6200 >> >> (814) 865-0091 [office] >> >> (814) 863-7285 [Fax] >> >> >> -- >> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 >> >> > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 07:04:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: Hejinian live webcast next Tues. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Language is running Language remains Wanting to live it, having wanted to, we live we live in it --from Lyn Hejinian, "Happily" LYN HEJINIAN at the KELLY WRITERS HOUSE join us by live webcast ---------------------------------------------------------------------- the Kelly Writers House Fellows program presents Lyn Hejinian 10:30 AM (eastern time) Tuesday, February 22 a conversation (with audience Q&A) conducted by Al Filreis To participate via webcast, simply rsvp to: << whfellow@writing.upenn.edu >> Anyone with a computer and an internet connection can participate. Participants in the webcast will be able to interact with Lyn Hejinian by email or telephone. For more information about the Kelly Writers House webcast series, see http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~wh/webcasts/ Those who rsvp will receive further instructions. For more about Lyn Hejinian, see: http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~whfellow/hejinian.html Kelly Writers House 3805 Locust Walk University of Pennsylvania 215 573-WRIT www.writing.upenn.edu/~wh * - * Writers House Fellows is funded by a generous grant from Paul Kelly. previous Fellows: James Alan McPherson 2004 Russell Banks Susan Sontag 2003 Walter Bernstein Laurie Anderson John Ashbery 2002 Charles Fuller Michael Cunningham June Jordan 2001 David Sedaris Tony Kushner Grace Paley 2000 Robert Creeley John Edgar Wideman Gay Talese 1999 recordings of live webcasts featuring the Fellows can be found here: http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~wh/webcasts/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 09:02:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: Next Poet Lariat? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Feb 17, 2005, at 10:33 PM, Alison Croggon wrote: > Wow, is this a joke? I downloaded that amazing little vid of=20 > Ashcroft's > inspiring performance, but I can't believe people take this stuff=20 > seriously. > You see my limitation. I am assured by the source of the info that the article is not a hoax=20 -- at this point in the These States I never bothered doubting it: I am=20= sure that having taken over nearly everything else, someone on the=20 looney right is actually planning such a cultural take-over. Just=20 googling some of the neo-con websites shld confirm this. > > I wonder what the difference is between "political correctness" and > "righteousness"? the first is a term of the left, & the second of the right? > > Are you considering emigration, Pierre? I never immigrated in the first place... but where to move to next? The=20= only reason france or europe feels saner is not that they have seen the=20= light, but because they are too old to get it up (thinking here of=20 Gottfried Benn's strictures against the so-called "wisdom" of Faust's=20 patoral paradise at the end of Goethe's Faust II -- which benn reads as=20= tiredness and impotence) and have to and are happy to leave the=20 militarisation of the old white world to the beefy younger part of that=20= world. England -- never again. France? Obviously have our ties there=20 -- but Chirac is one of the most dastardly politicians ever -- the man=20= shld be in jail -- between him, Bush & a shark, I'll take the shark=20 anyday. Many years ago, at the inauguration of the "Maison de la=20 Po=E9sie" in Paris, when he was mayor of that city, I refused to shake=20= Chirac's hand-- & see no reason to change my mind. Berlin is right now=20= about the only European city I wld live in with pleasure. On the other=20= hand, I am planning to be in Fez for some time in the near future, &=20 Timbouctou will then be only a four-day drive away. Pierre =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D For updates on readings, etc. check my current events page: http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street=09 Albany NY 12202 =09 h: 518 426 0433 =09 c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 =09= email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 09:24:42 -0500 Reply-To: kevin thurston Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: Jon Corelis - Can Poetry Liberate Language? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit funny, you'd think with a question like 'can poetry liberate language?' there would be the following choices: yes no perhaps then again, i pick my nose On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 19:23:42 -0500, konrad wrote: > Robert Corbett, responding to Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > > [snip] "what is missing from Wittgenstein's notion of language > games is any sense of how the games change--at least from I what > know. I do think the notion of games allows one to explore the > limits of those games, which may not turn out to be as > impermeable as philosophers would like." [snap] > > With the game metaphor it's important to remember that it's > backed up by the 'family resemblances' concept. That is, a way > of grouping similar things without relying on 'essences.' Also i > could be wrong, but don't think Wittgenstein EVER flat out said > that language was a game or even that any particular person's or > people's language was a game. He thought of the idea of > 'language games' to model certain aspects of language. > > My sense of Wittgenstein's thinking is that it explains that > conceptual 'change' occurs because cognitive recognition or > rhetorical construction of resemblances can change, which > affects the boundary of a concept. GAME changes because its > intension (the structure of resemblances) can change the > extension (things in the world you call a "game") and vice > versa. A particular new activity is invented and it changes > what exists in the world, and what we call a "game." I think > the *source* of this kind of change is really well illustrated > in section IIxi of the Philosophical Investigations, where he > explores the idea of the organization of perceptions: of seeing > aspects and aspect change (Shelley's "before unapprehended > relations of things"). > > Shelley was wrong to ascribe only to poetry a vital metaphoric > prerogative. ALL language is "vitally metaphorical." Daily > speech ("time passes") and even scientific language ("electrons > orbit the nucleus"), especially at the edge. There's a great > (apocryphal?) story about Heisenberg and Bohr washing dishes > together at a guys-only quantum physics retreat high in the > Swiss Alps. Heisenberg turns to Bohr and says, "Our language is > like this dishwater. Even though it's dirty we manage to get > the dishes clean." Or something to that effect. He meant that > while they had math equations to work out theories in, they > still needed language to describe the world. The metaphoric > strength of language ('waves of light' 'particles of matter') > was breaking down for them because the "contradictions" that > their math was revealing described reality better than classical > mechanics, which all their descriptive language was based on. > But somehow, metaphoric neologisms ('wavicle') with a little > sense of humor ('quarks' 'colored quarks' and 'quantum > chromodynamics'), helped them understand how to interpret the > math. > > I think it's important not to assign poets (or philosophers) a > role that requires them to have an essential difference, > capacity, insight, etc from everybody else. Conversely i think > it's important to allow that the growth, renewal and even > corrosion of language is brought about by many types of > interlocking uses of language. > > konrad > > ^Z > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 09:29:09 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: "A Vigorous Insurgency Is Worth Trillions In Security Outsourcing." Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ War Helps Recruit Terrorists, Hill Told: "A Vigorous Insurgency Is Worth Trillions In Security Outsourcing.": Goss Sites Wade Churchill's Research Which Confirms 'Sometimes They Push Back': Intelligence Officials Excited About Growing Insurgency, Increased Funding: Killing Of Hariri Designed to Further Inflame Middle East By GETTA PRIEST & JUSTA JOSHIN WHITEY ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 06:31:17 -0800 Reply-To: r_loden@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Loden Subject: Pound translations: public domain? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I need help with this question: are the poems in _Cathay_ (1915) in the public domain? My understanding was that anything published before 1923 falls into that category, and indeed there is a version of "Exile's Letter" at Bartleby.com. But it's from _The New Poetry: An Anthology_ (1917), edited by Harriet Monroe, and differs from the version in _The Translations of Ezra Pound_, still in print from New Directions. To add to the confusion, I note that another of the _Cathay_ poems is at the poets.org site, and it carries this notice: "Copyright C 1956, 1957 by Ezra Pound. Used with permission of New Directions Publishing Corporation. All rights reserved. No part of this poem may be reproduced in any form without the written consent of the publisher." That seems fairly definitive. Does anyone grok these subtleties? Thanks in advance, Rachel Loden ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 09:42:50 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brenda Coultas Subject: NYC Poet Arrested MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I just wanted everyone to know the NYC poet and activist Brad Will was arrested last night in Brazil. For more information, see the IndyMedia address below. Brenda Coultas Breaking News: Homeless Camp in Brasil Raided, Two Killed, NYC IMC Volunteer Arrested by NYC IMC 16 Feb 2005 There is an English language translation of this story now available on Global Indymedia. Update: According to a comment posted to the Global Indymedia feature from CMI Brasil, "The two IMC volunters ... were taken to the Federal Police where their equipement was taken by the police. They have a lawyer there with them and they seemed to be ok." We are recieving reports from Indymedia Brasil that Brasilian military police raided a homeless camp last night, killing at least two members of the Homeless Movement. More than 800 people were arrested, including NYC Indymedia reporter Brad Will. This is a breaking story. For updates visit the Indymedia global and Brasil [pt] websites. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:15:20 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Fwd: Midwest Living poetry search Comments: To: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, sunyungshin@gmail.com, manowak@stkate.edu, patrickdurgin@earthlink.net, writers-l@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, tani0013@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, weave049@umn.edu, gfcivil@stkate.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" hey all: a chance to go vispo and exp-po on Midwest Living Magazine! apologies for x-posting. >Thread-Topic: Midwest Living poetry search >Thread-Index: AcUVyNKMp6FIpRXGEcWPm2ZcQJfKqA== >From: "Sara Bouska" >To: >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Feb 2005 14:47:53.0438 (UTC) >FILETIME=[D36807E0:01C515C8] > >For a story that will appear in the January 2006 issue of Midwest >Living Magazine, I have been collecting a number of poetry from >Midwestern poets about winter peace. This story will include a lot >of photography of the snowy Midwest in the winter and will feature >poetry that reflect the peaceful, calm and serenity of winter. > >We want to make sure that we have done a thorough job finding >Midwestern poets who write about nature, especially winter. Do you >have any poems that would fit into this category or do you know of >any other poet's work that would be appropriate? Or, do you know >poets who write nature poetry that might be interested in this >opportunity? > >I am in the collecting stage of this project and would like to see >as much poetry as I can. I cannot guarantee that we will publish >your work. You may submit previously published poetry and it can be >any length. > >Please respond at your earliest convenience. Please call or email >with any questions you may have. > >Sara Bouska >Midwest Living >1716 Locust St. >Des Moines, IA 50309-3023 >515/284-2894 >515/284-3836(fax) >Sara.Bouska@meredith.com -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:30:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Hoerman, Michael A" Subject: At play in the feld of Porn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" New topics at Pornfeld -Unique uses of language in poetry blogs, vis "googlewhacking" -Manipulating the conceptual integration network schema -L'Acoustique nouvelle, WCW, Tony Tost, Chris Vitiello, Ron Silliman, George Lakoff, etc - http://www.massculturalcouncil.org/artistnews/bloggers.html http://pornfeld.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 08:50:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: 4' 33" Carefully Composed Silence In-Reply-To: <00d001c5165c$fa3448e0$149837d2@com747839ba04b> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The point behind Cage's silent piano piece seems to be, however, that there is no silence. Ambient noise from the audience is heard throughout. Still, Cage was and is a great composer, even though he is now deceased. Did you know, that his prepared piano innovations , in fact, originate with Henry Cowell. Not that the works so produced were not written by Cage but that the method of putting things on the strings originated with Cowell. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:12:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: 4' 33" Carefully Composed Silence Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 It's interesting to think=20 about how Derrida and Cage=20 both faked their deaths -=20 and neither have been promulgated. www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 17:14:20 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Cudmore Subject: Re: 4' 33" Carefully Composed Silence In-Reply-To: <20050218165005.28843.qmail@web31106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yeah, ambient noise from the audience you get when you go to hear Webern, too -- sometimes hard to hear the music for all the fidgeting noise. (As for the putting things on strings thing, are you saying that Cage 'got the idea from Cowell', i.e. in direct contact? Or merely that Cowell's preparations preceded Cage's? I used to play around with the strings inside our family piano long before I'd heard of either & no one gives me credit!) :P > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Thomas savage > Sent: 18 February 2005 16:50 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: 4' 33" Carefully Composed Silence > > The point behind Cage's silent piano piece seems to be, > however, that there is no silence. Ambient noise from the > audience is heard throughout. Still, Cage was and is a great > composer, even though he is now deceased. Did you know, that > his prepared piano innovations , in fact, originate with > Henry Cowell. Not that the works so produced were not > written by Cage but that the method of putting things on the > strings originated with Cowell. > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection > around http://mail.yahoo.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:28:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: 4' 33" Carefully Composed Silence In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit { (As for the putting things on strings thing, are you saying that Cage 'got { the idea from Cowell', i.e. in direct contact? Or merely that Cowell's { preparations preceded Cage's? I used to play around with the strings inside { our family piano long before I'd heard of either & no one gives me credit!) { { :P "Besides studying with Weiss and Schoenberg, I had also studied with Henry Cowell. I had often heard him play a grand piano, changing its sound by plucking and muting the strings with fingers and hands. I particularly loved to hear him play 'The Banshee.' To do this, Henry Cowell first depressed the pedal with a wedge at the back (or asked an assistant, sometimes myself, to sit at the keyboard and hold the pedal down), and then, standing at the back of the piano, he produced the music by lengthwise friction on the bass strings with his fingers or fingernails, and by crosswise sweeping of the bass strings with the palms of his hands. In another piece he used a darning egg, moving it lengthwise along the strings while trilling, as I recall, on the keyboard; this produced a glissando of harmonics." --John Cage from "How the Piano Came to be Prepared" in *Empty Words* [Wesleyan Univ. Press, 1978] Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:12:09 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Re: 4' 33" Carefully Composed Silliman In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Maybe Ron has been sending Cage covers to the list. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:48:42 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: 4' 33" Carefully Composed Silence In-Reply-To: <20050218165005.28843.qmail@web31106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Feb 18, 2005, at 10:50 AM, Thomas savage wrote: > The point behind Cage's silent piano piece seems to be, however, that=20= > there is no silence. Ambient noise from the audience is heard=20 > throughout. Still, Cage was and is a great composer, even though he=20= > is now deceased. Oh, Cage is still very much alive... This from a 2001 BBC article: The John Cage Project launched what they claim will be the world's=20 longest musical recital. Organ2/ASLSP is due to be performed on the town organ in Halberstadt=20= in northern Germany over a decidedly leisurely 639 years. Apparently some 360 spectators, paid DM30 (UK=A310) to see the = recital's=20 organist inflate his instrument's bellows and they'll have to come back=20= in another 18 months time in order to hear him play the first chord -=20 and one each year or so thereafter. Providing that sponsors can be found, the performance is scheduled to=20= reach its finale in 2640, with a half time interval planned in 2319. Time Although Cage originally wrote ASLSP in 1992 as a 20-minute piece for=20= piano, for many years musicologists have deliberated over just how=20 slow, as slow as possible really is. Whilst purists have argued that time is infinite, the John Cage Organ=20= Foundation agreed on the figure of 639 years to correspond with the=20 number of years since the construction of Germany=92s first block single=20= organ. The performance has been presented as the ultimate antidote to a fast=20= paced world. As organiser, Michael Betzle, has explained: =91The long period of time is supposed to form a contrast to the=20 breathless pace of change in the modern-day world.=92 It is certainly very slow, but as music critic Michael White, explains=20= this is not necessarily how John Cage intended the music to be=20 performed: =91It is in the spirit of John Cage=85 he was an outrageous character, = in a=20 sense, he was the emperor of the avant-garde.=92 =91His whole life was spent creating events and happenings=85 they = were=20 meant for you to go away and think about some principal or=20 philosophical idea that each piece embodied and reflected.=92 Life and laughs When asked about his thoughts on death, John Cage famously replied: =91That's a mystery the solution of which interests me very much.=92 Unless his music enables the audience to cheat death, it is extremely=20= unlikely that anyone will witness the entire live performance. Organiser, Michael Betzle, has even said: =91I am 57 years old. I have to accept the distinct possibility that I=20= shall die before the concert is over.=92 So what does ASLSP signify? Is there any point in staging a concert=20 that even the organisers will never hear? =46rom Michael White=92s point of view, there are always lessons to be=20= learned from Cage performances. He explains: =91I think Cage was a con-man, but he was a con man who stumbled on = some=20 brilliant truths and was able to make use of them.=92 'I met him a few times and he was funny and able to laugh at himself.=20= It wasn=92t that he didn=92t take what he was doing seriously, he did, = but=20 he thought that there was a joke in everything.' 'I think people who grasp some deep truths about life are able to look=20= at life and see how funny it is.=92 http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/arts/highlights/010911_cage.shtml ---- WritingDubuffetTitles (OpenSource InterWriting) ISBN 82-92428-29-1 http://joglars.org/InterWriting/index.php/WritingDubuffetsTitles= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:49:04 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: help - Chicago downtown MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Chicago area poetry friends. My hipster friend Andy and I need a place to stay in downtown Chicago Saturday and Sunday night. We are both funny and would bring our own sleeping bags. Please advise. I mean, we could go on Priceline, but who really has $50 a night? Is Chicago International Hostel worth trying? Aaron Belz ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:50:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: 4' 33" Carefully Composed Silence In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:14 PM 2/18/2005, you wrote: >Yeah, ambient noise from the audience you get when you go to hear Webern, >too -- sometimes hard to hear the music for all the fidgeting noise. You're hanging with the wrong crowd. Like Ives said on another occasion, "Stand up and use your ears like a man." But hell, there are people who fidget at readings of poetry they consider difficult. >(As for the putting things on strings thing, are you saying that Cage 'got >the idea from Cowell', i.e. in direct contact? Or merely that Cowell's >preparations preceded Cage's? I used to play around with the strings inside >our family piano long before I'd heard of either & no one gives me credit!) I took a class from Cowell at Columbia in 1963. He performed some of his pieces played on the interior of the piano for us. He also demonstrated for us some of Cage's innovations. Cage was his student. Mark >:P > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Thomas savage > > Sent: 18 February 2005 16:50 > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: 4' 33" Carefully Composed Silence > > > > The point behind Cage's silent piano piece seems to be, > > however, that there is no silence. Ambient noise from the > > audience is heard throughout. Still, Cage was and is a great > > composer, even though he is now deceased. Did you know, that > > his prepared piano innovations , in fact, originate with > > Henry Cowell. Not that the works so produced were not > > written by Cage but that the method of putting things on the > > strings originated with Cowell. > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection > > around http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:58:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Ed Berrigan's Yr Cheatin Heart (Furniture Press) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Folks, here's roundup number two! If anyone would like to order the very limited and very rare and very beaut= iful chapbook by my favorite guitar playa, write to the address below with = a $10 bill. Who knows, I may also throw in some goodies! Christophe Casamassima 19 Murdock Road Baltimore, MD 21212 here's an excellent blurb about: Who wouldn=92t admire the way Edmund Berrgian, in your cheatin=92 heart (fu= rniture press, 2004), tames the syntax beast by letting it pounce around be= fore pulling in the leash? The controlled wildness of these poems shares so= mething with the working of the mind on the morning after an all-night bend= er; even as time is seemingly slowed or elongated, the hyper drive of thoug= ht incessantly careening into itself produces a slew of startling & strange= images which twist into an almost awkward kind of beauty, one whose authen= ticity is akin to that of a country ballad played to utter perfection on gu= itar with two broken strings.=20 Noah Eli Gordon www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:17:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Next Poet Lariat? In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable It's curious - and I think an old tactic of the right - to put this Ashcrof= t aspiration into the public sphere. It has a way of focusing and draining energies away from paying attention to real work and the people and processes that make poetry real. Brings up memories of local, consuming debates in the mid-seventies about whether or not Rod McKuen - Stanyan Street Poems, multiple million copy seller - was a real poet, and whether o= r not Lewis McAdams should have invited Mckuen to read at the SF State Poetry Center. Which he did. The whole thing many of us found an energy suck and refused to go to the event. McKuen is a forgotten footnote now. Such, hopefully, will not be the case of those Arabs and Arab-Americans unjustly jailed and tortured under Ashcroft as Attorney General. I think it is a good time turn one's back and refuse to publicly acknowledg= e the Ashcroft prospect - like Pierre not shaking hands with Chirac - particularly if he is so chosen. Jesus! Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > On Feb 17, 2005, at 10:33 PM, Alison Croggon wrote: >=20 >> Wow, is this a joke? I downloaded that amazing little vid of >> Ashcroft's >> inspiring performance, but I can't believe people take this stuff >> seriously. >> You see my limitation. >=20 > I am assured by the source of the info that the article is not a hoax > -- at this point in the These States I never bothered doubting it: I am > sure that having taken over nearly everything else, someone on the > looney right is actually planning such a cultural take-over. Just > googling some of the neo-con websites shld confirm this. >>=20 >> I wonder what the difference is between "political correctness" and >> "righteousness"? >=20 > the first is a term of the left, & the second of the right? >=20 >>=20 >> Are you considering emigration, Pierre? >=20 > I never immigrated in the first place... but where to move to next? The > only reason france or europe feels saner is not that they have seen the > light, but because they are too old to get it up (thinking here of > Gottfried Benn's strictures against the so-called "wisdom" of Faust's > patoral paradise at the end of Goethe's Faust II -- which benn reads as > tiredness and impotence) and have to and are happy to leave the > militarisation of the old white world to the beefy younger part of that > world. England -- never again. France? Obviously have our ties there > -- but Chirac is one of the most dastardly politicians ever -- the man > shld be in jail -- between him, Bush & a shark, I'll take the shark > anyday. Many years ago, at the inauguration of the "Maison de la > Po=E9sie" in Paris, when he was mayor of that city, I refused to shake > Chirac's hand-- & see no reason to change my mind. Berlin is right now > about the only European city I wld live in with pleasure. On the other > hand, I am planning to be in Fez for some time in the near future, & > Timbouctou will then be only a four-day drive away. >=20 > Pierre >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > For updates on readings, etc. check my current events page: > http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Pierre Joris > 244 Elm Street =20 > Albany NY 12202 =20 > h: 518 426 0433 =20 > c: 518 225 7123 =20 > o: 518 442 40 85=20 > email: joris@albany.edu > http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:30:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Stephen Baraban Subject: Re: Next Poet Lariat? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii For gawds sake, a few minutes of the push-button research that is now so very easy shows that this Ashcroft thing comes from a satirical website called The Swift Report which includes delicisous stories like "Bush: Banning Gay Marriage Could Cut Deficit in Half" & something about Ann Coulter once having been a man. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:21:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Next Poet Lariat? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John Ashcroft and David Gitin--separated at birth? Check the photo of Gitin on Ron S's blog the other day. Hal Colourless green ideas sleep furiously. --Noam Chomsky Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ { It's curious - and I think an old tactic of the right - to put this Ashcroft { aspiration into the public sphere. It has a way of focusing and draining { energies away from paying attention to real work and the people and { processes that make poetry real. Brings up memories of local, consuming { debates in the mid-seventies about whether or not Rod McKuen - Stanyan { Street Poems, multiple million copy seller - was a real poet, and whether or { not Lewis McAdams should have invited Mckuen to read at the SF State Poetry { Center. Which he did. The whole thing many of us found an energy suck and { refused to go to the event. McKuen is a forgotten footnote now. Such, { hopefully, will not be the case of those Arabs and Arab-Americans unjustly { jailed and tortured under Ashcroft as Attorney General. { I think it is a good time turn one's back and refuse to publicly acknowledge { the Ashcroft prospect - like Pierre not shaking hands with Chirac - { particularly if he is so chosen. Jesus! { { Stephen V { Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com { { { { { { > On Feb 17, 2005, at 10:33 PM, Alison Croggon wrote: { > { >> Wow, is this a joke? I downloaded that amazing little vid of { >> Ashcroft's { >> inspiring performance, but I can't believe people take this stuff { >> seriously. { >> You see my limitation. { > { > I am assured by the source of the info that the article is not a hoax { > -- at this point in the These States I never bothered doubting it: I am { > sure that having taken over nearly everything else, someone on the { > looney right is actually planning such a cultural take-over. Just { > googling some of the neo-con websites shld confirm this. { >> { >> I wonder what the difference is between "political correctness" and { >> "righteousness"? { > { > the first is a term of the left, & the second of the right? { > { >> { >> Are you considering emigration, Pierre? { > { > I never immigrated in the first place... but where to move to next? The { > only reason france or europe feels saner is not that they have seen the { > light, but because they are too old to get it up (thinking here of { > Gottfried Benn's strictures against the so-called "wisdom" of Faust's { > patoral paradise at the end of Goethe's Faust II -- which benn reads as { > tiredness and impotence) and have to and are happy to leave the { > militarisation of the old white world to the beefy younger part of that { > world. England -- never again. France? Obviously have our ties there { > -- but Chirac is one of the most dastardly politicians ever -- the man { > shld be in jail -- between him, Bush & a shark, I'll take the shark { > anyday. Many years ago, at the inauguration of the "Maison de la { > Poésie" in Paris, when he was mayor of that city, I refused to shake { > Chirac's hand-- & see no reason to change my mind. Berlin is right now { > about the only European city I wld live in with pleasure. On the other { > hand, I am planning to be in Fez for some time in the near future, & { > Timbouctou will then be only a four-day drive away. { > { > Pierre { > { > ================================================= { > "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn { > ================================================= { > For updates on readings, etc. check my current events page: { > http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html { > ================================================= { > Pierre Joris { > 244 Elm Street { > Albany NY 12202 { > h: 518 426 0433 { > c: 518 225 7123 { > o: 518 442 40 85 { > email: joris@albany.edu { > http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ { > ================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:42:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Jon Corelis - Can Poetry Liberate Language? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii well then no if the answer has to be one word. i have been reading Isaiah Berlin and should have said so, since my Wittgenstein is old and perhaps a little suspect (though he is still the Man, after the Nietzsche, for me). Berlin has an interesting claim about philosophy or several related claims. 1) philosophy has no method, despite the fact that some philosophers become methodized. anything that is overly mechanical is destroyed or given over to science; anything that is overly deductive or formal is given over to logic and mathematics. philosophy is a practice and you can only learn by working with the practictioners (a game if you will). 2) philosophy develops in two ways: 1) through reformulating the questions themselves, so what were apparent problems become problems no longer; 2) through destruction of an existing system -- Kant's destruction of naive empiricism or Nietzsche's destruction of Hegelian metaphysics. He is better than Rorty because Richard is not historical is thinking about philosophy. He thinks that once a metaphor is dead, it is dead. Berlin knows it can be resurrected (making him strangely closer to Derrida). Finally (and perhaps this is his repetition of Wittgenstein), he says that philosophical problems causes "mental agony." That is why it is frustrating that there is no "method" to philosophy and that is why sometimes the acolytes destroy their predecessor's work (as Wittgenstein did unto Russell's logical atomism). None of which is to the point, but I do think it would be interesting to substitute "poetry" for philosophy here. Is there a "method" to poetry? Do poets destroy the "methods" that precede them? And yes poetry cannot liberate langugage. But why give one or the other priority over them. And no, not all language is "vitally" metaphorical. All is metaphorical but if computer manuals was written like the Triumph of Life--well they would be better reading but even less helpful than they are now. Shelley is not naive about his _language_, so don't you be either. Robert --- kevin thurston wrote: > funny, you'd think with a question like 'can poetry > liberate > language?' there would be the following choices: > yes > no > perhaps > > then again, i pick my nose > > > On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 19:23:42 -0500, konrad > wrote: > > > > Shelley was wrong to ascribe only to poetry a > vital metaphoric > > prerogative. ALL language is "vitally > metaphorical." Daily > > speech ("time passes") and even scientific > language ("electrons > > orbit the nucleus"), especially at the edge. > There's a great > > (apocryphal?) story about Heisenberg and Bohr > washing dishes > > together at a guys-only quantum physics retreat > high in the > > Swiss Alps. Heisenberg turns to Bohr and says, > "Our language is > > like this dishwater. Even though it's dirty we > manage to get > > the dishes clean." Or something to that effect. > He meant that > > while they had math equations to work out theories > in, they > > still needed language to describe the world. The > metaphoric > > strength of language ('waves of light' 'particles > of matter') > > was breaking down for them because the > "contradictions" that > > their math was revealing described reality better > than classical > > mechanics, which all their descriptive language > was based on. > > But somehow, metaphoric neologisms ('wavicle') > with a little > > sense of humor ('quarks' 'colored quarks' and > 'quantum > > chromodynamics'), helped them understand how to > interpret the > > math. > > > > I think it's important not to assign poets (or > philosophers) a > > role that requires them to have an essential > difference, > > capacity, insight, etc from everybody else. > Conversely i think > > it's important to allow that the growth, renewal > and even > > corrosion of language is brought about by many > types of > > interlocking uses of language. > > > > konrad > > > > ^Z > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:43:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: Next Poet Lariat? In-Reply-To: <20050218183055.88023.qmail@web51903.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Ann Coulter was once a man?! that would explain a lot -- said a man At 01:30 PM 2/18/2005, you wrote: >For gawds sake, a few minutes of the push-button >research that is now so very easy shows that this >Ashcroft thing comes from a satirical website called >The Swift Report which includes delicisous stories >like >"Bush: Banning Gay Marriage Could Cut Deficit in Half" >& something about Ann Coulter once having been a man. > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! >http://my.yahoo.com <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "and now it's winter in America" --Gil Scott-Heron Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 [office] (814) 863-7285 [Fax] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:40:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: O sweet spontaneous Comments: To: editor@pavementsaw.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Ah David, I never knew you were such a quirky fellow -- and still are as is plain to see. I should have known by "Estrella's Prophecies" but I thought "Ah that's just poetry," making the mistake so many have made of imagining distinction between the poetry & the mind. Royalties will not be difficult to keep track of, as you will be publishing the book. You need not worry about the stress-mark. I have absorbed it into the body of my name. People I think highly of use it in email; I myself do not, unless I am thinking highly of myself that day. Please do not bother yourself to think any more stress into my name: you know I think I can feel it: it is a rare mixture of courtesy and strain, maybe like a man with a toothache holding open a door for a lady with too much fur sweeping through or ... no, I will not pursue that image. But a very sweet wrestling with the accent nevertheless. David you should hear how I pronounce Baratier you grenadier, you bereted tier, you barette of a dear, barista of my atelier, breath of day. I have sewn a small flock of starlings into it for you, they look like circumflexes, with transparent thread. And for the information of anyone who feels he or she could establish a warm & cheering relationship with me if only he/she could pronounce my name, it's marade, rhyming with parade, charade, afraid. The Irish for Margaret. Mairead >>> David Baratier 02/16/05 11:21 PM >>> Mairead-- Thanks for the poem. I have thoroughly enjoyed our Oatmealee. I hope you will dispense royalties, per word or per page for my part when this appears in your next book. Second, I might owe you an apology, it is not that I do not know your name but there is an intentional mispelling each time I write it. I have been thinking a stress-mark into the e-mail just before I send it and since you have not said anything I thought it might be working but I wanted to be clear. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:43:57 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Elshtain Subject: For Those Abt to Be in Louisville MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Computer-Generated Poetry: Gnoetry and the Continuing Struggle to Make Poetry Mean Friday, February 25, 1:30 - 3:00 p.m. Room: 114 Chair: Amy England, Art Institute of Chicago • Matthias Regan, University of Chicago "'The Brambles Formed Chains': The Poetic Origins and Present Shortcomings of Gnoetry" • John Tipton, Chicago, Illinois "The Oracle at Chicago" • Jon Trowbridge, Chicago, Illinois • Eric Elshtain, University of Chicago "A Conversation with Jon Trowbridge and Eric Elshtain, the Creators of Gnoetry" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:04:36 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: poetry therapy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit . . . THE PARAPROFESSIONAL A priest, a lawyer, and a paraprofessional were stranded on an island. The priest prayed, the lawyer gathered firewood, and the paraprofessional sat in my classroom in the desk behind a kid that had Aspergers Syndrome. NON VERBAL LEARNING DISABILITY Maria Deutschmann is ignoring me. Maybe she has a non-verbal learning disability. Hey Maria. Yo. See? She has no inner voice to restrain her from base instincts. MYELIN I can't tell you how to relate to others. I don't have the answers, and you know it. All I can tell you is that nobody fits a single definition perfectly. Also, I have no myelin coating on my nerves to restrain me from base instincts. Stop triggering my responses, because I can't control them. Thanks. BASE INSTINCTS One time there was a powerpoint about base instincts. Beforehand, the presenter warned us to assume nothing. ASSUME NOTHING These students have an extremely high tolerance for pain. Whereas normal students may respond positively to mild chastisement, Maybe you'd want to stab one of these students in the hand. If you laugh or say anything afterward, that would be a trigger. CALM Jessica is walking to class. She walks through a freshly painted hallway. This becomes a "trigger" and confuses Jessica. She ends up at Starbucks. REALITY THERAPY Reality therapy is very simple. Everyone can incorporate it into their work. It helps develop the inner voice so critical to normal life. The first question is, "What do you want?" The second question is, "What do you really want?" The key to reality therapy is discovering how to help others get the things they need. Once this key is established, the questions become, "What are you doing?" and "Is it working?" The final step is to develop a "plan": Simple, specific, positive, immediate, commitment. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dear Mark Weiss- The above are my attempt at therapy poetry. Or poetry therapy. I am not a big huge fan of the poets listed at the poetry therapy convention, so I believe you and I should take this movement by the horns and steer it in another direction. Aaron Belz . ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 16:22:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: poetry therapy In-Reply-To: <001b01c515fd$7480bb70$130310ac@AaronDell> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed For a start, let's try to get them to take the word Poetry out of Poetry therapy. Yours are nice, tho. I hope they help you deal with your conflicts. Mark >Dear Mark Weiss- > >The above are my attempt at therapy poetry. Or poetry therapy. I am not a >big huge fan of the poets listed at the poetry therapy convention, so I >believe you and I should take this movement by the horns and steer it in >another direction. > >Aaron Belz > > > >. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 16:24:20 -0500 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: Autobiographia Cinematica by Alessandro Porco Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT new from above/ground press Autobiographia Cinematica by Alessandro Porco $4 You Like Me, You Really Like Me "Hail, hail! All hail! to the King of Beers," The busty-bird bar-maid is laying his name, In praise, to loyal patrons who, in turn, echo her cheer, "Hail, hail! All hail! to the King of Beers." Life's staple, stable when he's on -- or even near -- My nut-salt lips & the screen's got the games. Hell! O hell! two bottle-buckets of King Budweiser Later, I swear she's laying my name. ===== Alessandro Porco divides his time between the country north of Toronto and Motnreal. His first collection of poems, The Jill Kelly Poems (http://www.ecwpress.com/forth.htm), is forthcoming from ECW Press in spring 2005. ======= published in ottawa by above/ground press. subscribers rec' complimentary copies. to order, add $1 for postage (or $2 for non-canadian) to rob mclennan, 858 somerset st w, main floor, ottawa ontario k1r 6r7. backlist catalog & submission info at www.track0.com/rob_mclennan ======= above/ground press chapbook subscriptions - starting January 1st, $30 per calendar year (outside of Canada, $30 US) for chapbooks, broadsheets + asides. Current & forthcoming publications by Adam Seelig, Julia Williams, Karen Clavelle, Eric Folsom, Alessandro Porco, Frank Davey, John Lavery, donato mancini, rob mclennan, kath macLean, Andy Weaver, Barry McKinnon, Michael Holmes, Jan Allen, Jason Christie, Patrick Lane, Anita Dolman, Shane Plante, David Fujino, Matthew Holmes + others. payable to rob mclennan. STANZAS subscriptions, $20 (CAN) for 5 issues (non-Canadian, $20 US). recent issues featuring work by Rachel Zolf, J.L. Jacobs & Michael Holmes. bibliography on-line. ======= -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 16:34:51 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: 4' 33" Carefully Composed Silence In-Reply-To: <00d001c5165c$fa3448e0$149837d2@com747839ba04b> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Richard Taylor typed: >Cage is clearly a great thinker poet artist musician - but - just talking >of his famous silence omits what I think - from my limited knowledge of his >work - what seems to be his accomplishment - is interest in chance plus his >ideas including that music move beyond the "organised" or predetermined etc >and that idea of his that involves very much his audience - but of course as >in the problematic "death of the author concept (as Alan eg comments on and >there was a debate on the D of the A once on here before) Cage of course is >still an individual "author" behind his works- but ideas from his >works/philosophy etc include the idea of feeling that one (the audience / >the performers) can interprete music much more freely - can participate - >can appreciate being alive and listening -- as in jazz and indeed even in >Bach and Beethoven and all those guys - but more so - the idea that sounds >themselves of the 'real world' are incorporated - what is composed - what is >artifice - what's more beautiful or more interesting - sounds we hear or >composed music? > Artists who don't work in media where interpretive artists are usually necessary for an audience to experience the work (those who aren't, for example, composers, choreographers or playwrights) often have skewed ideas about what was important about Cage was doing. Cage wasn't interested in performers doing whatever they wanted to - he wanted them to play the works on the scores in front of them. Cage was far more interested in composers being able to make whatever they wanted to however they wanted to, regardless of how difficult it might be for a musician to perform the resulting works. There's really VERY little evidence that Cage had much interest in any idea of "the Death of the Author" and he had VERY little interest in improvisation as such or audience participation. What little interest he may have had in these things does not seem to be reflected in the music that he composed. Cage's use of chance techniques was as a way to avoid falling into his own compositional habits of taste and self-expression, also, he wanted to create works that didn't simply fall into the performing habits of musicians. Once a score was completed, however, Cage expected that musicians would reproduce their parts as they were written, and he was always quite upset whenever performers took liberties with his notated scores. There WAS a relatively brief period in the 1960s when Cage created a few works (maybe as many as ten out of nearly 300 compositions) that were little more than sets of materials with which a musicians or ensemble were to develop their own scores using various random manipulations, but even in these cases, Cage expected the resulting scores to be followed exactly rather than ignored by performers improvising in real-time. If anything, he seemed to have even less patience for audience members who chose to do their own thing in response to a work, rather than just being open to hearing what was performed. One of Cage's frequently quoted bon mots was "Permission granted; but not to do what you want." >"That's God " "A shout in the street" - is there any untimate silence - he >went into a soundless chamber - I forget the term for it - but he realised >he couldn't "escape' sound - the mind creates sound - and the involvement >of the audience - >interesting ideas by an innovative musician/writer etc When Cage was in the anechoic chamber, his mind DIDN'T create sounds where there were no sounds. Rather he heard the actual sounds of his body in operation, sounds which are usually masked by the ambient sounds of the world around us: the low-pitched blood pulsing through his veins and the high-pitched sound of his nervous system. Some people might also hear the various sounds created by tinnitus in such a situation. > >And Cage's ideas contributed to a degree of liberation from the set - forms >etc - I don't understand it all but those are some ideas I get from >Cage... > >Silence can be terrifying and extraordinary beautiful. > >And I heard a musician describing her performance of the >4' 33" and she had to work on it very hard - not trivia - and Cage actually >'composed' the silent parts as well or as assiduoulsy as other composers >compose their >music: it was constructed silence - composed silence - and he scored and >wrote tempus for the silence music - or at least he had bars etc carefuly >and assiduously composed silence. 4'33" is in three sections; the first section is 30"; the second section is 2'23" & the final section is 1'40". Demarking these sections clearly in performance is as difficult for a musician as maintaining performing concentration while not playing the instrument they've spent years working on. -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 16:35:03 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: 4' 33" Carefully Composed Silence In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.1.20050218124648.04229870@pop.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Mark Weiss wrote: >At 12:14 PM 2/18/2005, you wrote: >>Yeah, ambient noise from the audience you get when you go to hear Webern, >>too -- sometimes hard to hear the music for all the fidgeting noise. > > >You're hanging with the wrong crowd. Like Ives said on another occasion, >"Stand up and use your ears like a man." > >But hell, there are people who fidget at readings of poetry they consider >difficult. As I note elsewhere, ambient sounds come from the surroundings regardless of the behavior of any members of the audience. And they can just as easily come from non-fidgeting audience members who are entirely focused and attentive on the work at hand, whatever that may be. -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 18:03:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Blue Poets in Red States--Nebraska MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anybody know a poet in Nebraska for Blue Poets in Red State soon to be = renamed Purple Poets? Michael=20 www.bigbridge.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 08:17:03 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Tattoo You MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I read recently that the women in the Yoshiwara sometimes tattooed their favorite haiku along with the name of their chief patron on certain parts of their bodies. This intrigued me so much that I thought I'd enlist the help of the list concerning the idea of worn poetry/text. Please participate by telling us, specifically, what poem/text you would have tattooed on your body, and exactly where on your body you would tattoo the poem/text in question. Poems can be in any language, and any length and of course any part of the anatomy is fair game. Oh yes, and you could tell us why you would place the poem where you would place it. Instances of tattoo poetry/text from history, or popular culture would be appreciated. If you're really game you could text yourself and tell us about it. It might make an interesting addition to a future ahadada book. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 17:22:32 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Faucet Hill Pharaoh-Gazette July 8, 1891 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the shades of 231 literary giants persuaded Virginia's last ashes to their assorted psalms but the river thousands their writings away basket-load by basket-load of page cards... one page card says: I am wearing horses and saying steal from meal flies, then, please, crash that ink amid silver tongue cakes one page card says: she ash, passing the portals now silver brings her lion's tails float, Virginia, with us float, one page card said, you'll see if she did, if you out-live the basket-fleet's tail the latest note card shows still the basket-fleet's mouth, freighted with silver ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 18:04:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: 4' 33" Carefully Composed Silence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit check out cowell's complete piano music one disc's worth on folkways he plays it himself and explains but there are also some great interpreters of it ah a woman who's name now escapes me on finadar cowell also "invented" the tone cluster elbow to hand on keyboard i first saw that done in the 60's by cecil taylor whom at 76 is still beyond amazing caught his trio last night and going back for the big band tonight cowell was also gay as was cage and as is taylor tho in cowell's time he was denounced and jailed for it and supporters like ives abandoned him lou harrision i believe also studied with cowell cage eventually said he didn't like what shoenberg was about nor beethoven (i think) and tho he was into chance operations ( a form of improvisation ) he disliked jazz ct @ iridium set 1 come call away sons & snows agone call away this web of turndown alimpin turn'round the straightened various some song of the tongue - less hand delft in yet non-toxic bulk-a-wise before broken began before bewitching occurred nex applied the bitterness of sugar the trick of borrowing from calamus canervum calamus calum call away the lan(d)tern'd call away the rub. set 2 a. i be cool intact but naked exist as walkin bulc i dream i um ir-ee--ite rattle mouth thirb elin toward the lift x-reenal alk klaw vertical gravey small gravey in this dream i kiss you & walk away. b. the young boy orders food late in the set - the music is so intense he drops some on his pants. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:39:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jane Sprague Subject: Re: Tattoo You MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fiction writer Shelley Jackson's "novel"- I think it is called "Skin": she's recruited people to each sport 1 word of the text on their body as tattooed text/symbol (ampersand, etc.). 1000 people or something are doing this; the project is nearly complete. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 16:18:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Robert Corbett Subject: Is Poetry as amethodical, aformal as Philosophy; Or Thinking with Isaiah Berlin on Poetry, part 1 Comments: To: Jean-Paul Pecqueur , Joanna Fuhrman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This is another off-the-point discussion or really the beginning of a new thread, but I have provoked by some of the more dogmatic utterances here about what poetry IS. I think practitioners have a certain investment in saying what it _is_ and saying some forms are out of bounds. To a large degree, this is what the so-called new formalists do, and to a lesser degree, the LP and post-LP folks do. (Sorry, David Lehman, but you are just flat out wrong about the Last Avante-Garde.) We seem to have a rising generation that resists such statements, but there remains a distinct emphasis on method as synomous with poetry--at least poetry that matters. (It is a peculiarity of our moment that the most radically formalist movement, LP, is thought of a formless by certain algorithms in the reviewing machine. The neo-formalists themselves should be called the Old Formalists, just as the New Critics were nothing but Johnson with a few misunderstood premises from Coleridge. "Just representations of general nature" covers the unexceptional work of both schools and misunderstood Coleridge gets you to the autotelic moment (subtly Christian) which has degraded into the dreaded epiphany of the final line.) Berlin proposes that philosophy has no essential method and that it sloughs off as unnecessary two different kinds of labor: roughly the construable by experiment or observation, or the deductive by formal logic (starting with logic and mathematics and reading up into physics, though at the rarer altitudes there, there may be philosophy). The reasoning is that philosophy is simply what is the case and you only know by doing it and doing it in community (so the ranting of the Unabomber or the Imam or the Libertarian are not philosophy). Think about it: what is the _subject_ of philosophy? Or better, where does it start and where does it end? Not here: other minds discussions can take place on Mars. Note to pragmatists: this is a more vigorous definition of philosophy, because y'all are too eager to render its work back into social policy or engineering or natural science or literature. It is in the Sellarsian tradition of "philosophy is, in general, how things hang together." Berlin, too, as historian of philosophy (but also a conceptual innovator, which is how Deleuze defines the work of philosophy), is conscious of the embeddedness of philosophic discourse and how it resistance (mental agony, for Berlin, creates the need for new philosophy) can bring about rebellion. This allies him with Derrida and Freud. So under the influence of Berlin (ich bin berliner for the moment), I want to ask, how does Poetry compare to this definition of philosophy? And does defining Poetry this way solve or make go away the anxious question about what it does to language? I think it does and yet it does in a way that does delegitimate other definitions, presumably local. (I'll say more on that score in another email.) The next installment will be a healthy selection of Berlin on philosophy as a-methodical. After that I will try to specify in more detail how poetry, in its way, is also a-methodical. I don't think of this a critical therapy (fortunately, criticism is mostly about what something means and what are its effects, so not recuperable by therapy community) but I do think it will help relieve anxiety and promote clear thinking. Robert ____ I will discuss perfidy with scholars as if spurning kisses, I will sip the marble marrow of empire. I want sugar but I shall never wear shame and if you call that sophistry then what is Love? - Lisa Robertson ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 14:17:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: 4' 33" Carefully Composed Silence Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original I am well aware of the point - or that point re ambient sound - there are others as everyone agrees - he was great generator of ideas - but also Charles Ives's father experimented with the prepared piano in the 19th century - I am no expert on music - but I was reading a book on modern music and Cowell was discussed - I looked him up and indeed he was an original -but I also like Ives's concepts his mixing of sounds -popular and so-called classical - and the sheer energy of his music...and back to his father - once he let a certain John Bell sing out of tune as the main thing was the 'spirit' or gusto in the man - there was no "correct" music - it was the joy of it , the conceptual aspect, the ideas - strange that in theUS Ives was neglected so much (or for so long) - he epitomizes the so-called American dream - but this is always the case (I don't care that he bcame a multimillionnaire - good on him) - the major innovators are either attacked or neglected or are actually in danger...under the surface of US Capitalism we have a new-Stalinist-Breznevian-McCarthyist [some strange configuration] America waiting to be born - in more or less subtle changed form - with Rumsford and Ashcroft writing all the poetry - Rice doing all the music and so on .... Richard Taylor Auckland - New Zealand richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet ("Well..." ) / Chess Addict (partly recovered) /Was 15 stone - working on it -/ Grandfather/ BA /NZCE/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: --------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."---------------------- ASPECT BOOKS www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas savage" To: Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 8:50 AM Subject: Re: 4' 33" Carefully Composed Silence > The point behind Cage's silent piano piece seems to be, however, that > there is no silence. Ambient noise from the audience is heard throughout. > Still, Cage was and is a great composer, even though he is now deceased. > Did you know, that his prepared piano innovations , in fact, originate > with Henry Cowell. Not that the works so produced were not written by > Cage but that the method of putting things on the strings originated with > Cowell. > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 21:32:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: Tattoo You MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Certainly, Peter Greenaway's daptation of "The Pillow Book" deserves some mention here. Cheers, Gerald Schwartz > Fiction writer Shelley Jackson's "novel"- I think it is called "Skin": > she's > recruited people to each sport 1 word of the text on their body as > tattooed > text/symbol (ampersand, etc.). 1000 people or something are doing this; > the > project is nearly complete. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 22:13:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hsn Subject: Re: Tattoo You In-Reply-To: <001901c5162b$46919d00$5671a918@yourae066c3a9b> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 2/18/05 9:32 PM, "Gerald Schwartz" wrote: >> Certainly, Peter Greenaway's daptation of "The Pillow Book" << YAY! YAY! hassen **DID YOU SEE that there are some fruit roll-ups now that feature TONGUE TATTOOS? OH MY GOD ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 23:11:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hsn Subject: Re: Tattoo You In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit jesse thnx for posting this fun topic. i hope others respond. however much i like having text penned on my skin, i don't think i'd ever get a tattoo of a poem/text but i really dig it on others. i guess i'm cautious about definition outlasting its assigned ephemera (me). that being said, i do have a character tattoo on my write wrist - it's the name, however tongue in cheek, of the protagonist in my Magnus Opium. & sometimes i'm dubitable about, like, vodou invocation or servitude &tc but then shake it away. it's small enough i can tear it out with my teeth if i must. how 'bout you? seems i haven't met many poets with tattoos, now that i think of it. certainly not like musicians or artists. at least a couple poets on this list have tattoos that i know of, ahem, but i don't remember whole texts. hassen On 2/18/05 6:17 PM, "Jesse Glass" wrote: > I read recently that the women in the Yoshiwara sometimes tattooed their > favorite haiku along with the name of their chief patron on certain > parts of their bodies. This intrigued me so much that I thought I'd > enlist the help of the list concerning the idea of worn poetry/text. > Please participate by telling us, specifically, what poem/text you would > have tattooed on your body, and exactly where on your body you would > tattoo the poem/text in question. Poems can be in any language, and any > length and of course any part of the anatomy is fair game. Oh yes, and > you could tell us why you would place the poem where you would place it. > > Instances of tattoo poetry/text from history, or popular culture would be > appreciated. If you're really game you could text yourself and tell us > about it. It might make an interesting addition to a future ahadada > book. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 23:21:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: happy and healthy assistance. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed happy and healthy assistance. Sophistry is a hydra, of which, if all the necks could be disposed, the force would be destroyed. - Jeremy Bentham assistance. way. being. like. and healthy. (new). much any more. assistance. way. being. how you feel. like. what you want. and healthy. along the way. (new). thank you. fallacies of _danger_ (including vituperative personalities); the subject-matter of which is the suggestion of danger in various shapes--and the object _to repress altogether,_ on the ground of such danger, the _discussion_ proposed to be entered on. - Jeremy Bentham ___ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 00:41:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: Tattoo You MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes... the word on the tongue! > On 2/18/05 9:32 PM, "Gerald Schwartz" wrote: >>> Certainly, Peter Greenaway's daptation of "The Pillow Book" << > > > > YAY! YAY! > > hassen > > > > > **DID YOU SEE that there are some fruit roll-ups now that feature TONGUE > TATTOOS? OH MY GOD > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 22:00:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Hubble & A Bierdstadt in concert!?? Comments: cc: UK POETRY , Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Say it isn't so, Joe! From Saturday's London Independent: Hubble scientists compared with artists of Old West Images of stars and galaxies taken by the Hubble space telescope fall into the Romantic landscape tradition that inspired the "America sublime" artists of the 19th century. "An art historian has found similarities in the way American painters depicted the beauty of the Old West with the subjective decisions made by the astronomers to form Hubble pictures. The Hubble records optical images but the colours have to be processed from black-and-white pictures with filters sensitive to different frequencies of the spectrum. But astronomers trying to depict space as realistically as they can have to make subjective choices on contrast, composition and colour, Elizabeth Kessler, of the University of Chicago, told the American Association for the Advancement of Science. "The Hubble images are part of the Romantic landscape tradition" she said, pioneered by the likes of Moran and Albert Bierstadt. David DeVorkin, of the Smithsonian Institution, said: "Just as 19th-century artists accompanied ... exhibitions to persuade of the greatness of the West, the space telescope images are doing that for space." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 03:10:24 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 'ice blue minn. sky' ice blue soho sky i o u 3:00...for 'maria' abed.....drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 18:22:50 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Contact info. for Olive Senior MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Current e-mail and website addresses do not work. Contact info. would be greatly appreciated. Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 01:26:30 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: 4' 33" Carefully Composed Silence Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Thomas savage wrote: >The point behind Cage's silent piano piece seems to be, however, >that there is no silence. The work is also about valorizing any sound as music, which is at least slightly different. >Ambient noise from the audience is heard throughout. Actually ambient noise from everywhere and everything (whether it's an HVAC system or a train going by) is heard throughout. There's no need for an audience (or for that matter, any easily audible ambient sounds) for the piece to work. >Did you know, that his prepared piano innovations , in fact, >originate with Henry Cowell. Not that the works so produced were >not written by Cage but that the method of putting things on the >strings originated with Cowell. Cage did get the idea of altering the piano from Cowell during a period in which he was writing only music for percussion ensembles. Cage was asked to make a piece for a dance performance on a stage too small to fit percussionists and dancer. Cowell's alterations of the piano's sound inspired Cage to think of ways that a single performer in a relatively small space could play a wide array of percussive sounds. However, what each of these 2 composer did with and/or to the piano was significantly different. Cowell didn't affix anything to specific spots amidst the strings of a piano. His inside the piano works require the performer to manipulate objects (or the player's bare hands) across and along the strings. In these works, the general shape of the sound is under control of the pianist, but the detailed components of each sound might be quite different from performance to performance, depending on the exact places that are struck or stroked on the strings. In Cage's piano preparations, he provides detailed instructions about exactly where on the piano's strings particular objects (strips of rubber, bolts, etc) should be placed. Ideally, striking the same note on a prepared piano's keyboard will always result in exactly the same sound. For what it's worth, Cage's notations about where to insert various objects inside a piano don't take into account the varying string lengths of different sized instruments, so there can be extreme differences in the actual sounds heard in performances using different pianos. So yeah, Cowell influenced Cage, and it's very unlikely that Cage would have developed the prepared piano without knowing of Cowell's work, but Cowell didn't do anything like what Cage did when he prepared pianos. Bests, Herb > > -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 09:37:06 -0500 Reply-To: mjk@justbuffalo.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Kelleher Subject: Jacket 30: Robert Creeley Comments: To: core-l@listserv.buffalo.edu, ubuweb@yahoogroups.BUFFALO.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii CALL FOR WORK: JACKET 30 In 2006, Robert Creeley will turn 80 and The University of California Press will issue a two volume edition of his Collected Poems. This will include the previous Collected Poems 1945-1975, as well as a second volume, Collected Poems 1976-2005, including all work subsequently published by New Directions. In celebration of these events Jacket Magazine 30 will feature a special section devoted to a wide range of material on Robert Creeley. We are currently accepting critical works, personal essays, audio recordings, poems and other writings on Creeley and his work. Of particular interest are essays on works published since 1975 and collected in the second volume of the Collected Poems. We are also very interested in works by younger writers and writers who have never written on Creeley before. Submission deadline is January 1, 2006. Please email submissions or queries to Michael Kelleher at michaelkelleher@adelphia.net or mail them to 285 Dearborn St., Buffalo, NY 14207. ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ Sent via the KillerWebMail system at mail.justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 15:32:14 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: T_Martin Subject: Re: Tattoo You Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I'd be hesitant to get a poem tattooed to myself. talk about a final draft. words have such power in the air, it stagggers my mind to what they have in the flesh. Logos? word becoming flesh? i have a symbol tatooed to my leg. some pre-literate cultures use pictograms to remember stories (i.e. the Walum Olum of the Lenni Lenape). how about a poem in pictures? somehow a secret meaning seems safer than a public poem. fascinating, thanks for posting this. tim martin www.timothymartin.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 10:50:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Erica Kaufman Subject: This Sunday @ Zinc TRS In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed ZINC TRS: ADAM de GRAFF & ERICA KAUFMAN Sunday, February 20, 2005 6:59 PM @ Zinc Bar 90 West Houston Street @ the corner of LaGuardia $5 suggested donation Adam de Graff enjoys writing a bio as it gives him a medium in which to talk about himself in the third person. Who is this third person? He's an artist doing his thing out in Arvada, Colorado. He runs an art venue there called the Dnote with his brothers, an experiment in reverse missionary work. Find out more at www.dnote.us He's had a few chapbooks in secret circulation, one designed by David Larsen called "All This Will Be Dust In Just 3 Minutes" (title by Ed Berrigan), one self published with a cover by Bill Luoma called "The Hawaii Poems" and another published by Lytle Shaw and Emilie Clark's Shark Press with a cover by Brice Hobbs. He mentions the covers because they are beautiful and he is proud of them. He is excited to come to New York to perform and hopes that everybody is not too busy to come out to see him erica kaufman is originally from bloomington, indiana, but if you ask her she will claim to be a new york native. that is where she lives and has a few jobs and co-curates the belladonna* reading series/ small press. erica is the author of two chapbooks: from the two coat syndrome (boku books, 2004) and the kickboxer suite (boog literature, 2004). soon she will also be the author of fantasy games (forthcoming from boku books, feb. 2005). her poems can also be found in puppyflowers, painted bride quarterly, bombay gin, the mississippi review, among other places. she likes dogs and mild weather. _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 10:06:01 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Tattoo You In-Reply-To: <20050219.073247.2063.115415@webmail18.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Walum Olum has been debunked for more than a 100 years, but David Oestreicher pretty much nailed it down with his last book It turns out to be invented by the nineteeth century master of the imaginary, Constantin Schmaltz Rafinesque (he also "created" the Devil-Jack Diamond fish http://www.smithsonianmag.si.edu/smithsonian/issues99/jan99/ fishes_jpg.html) took his queues from Joseph Smith, egyptian hierglyphs etc. http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/walamolum.html ~mIEKAL On Feb 19, 2005, at 9:32 AM, T_Martin wrote: > I'd be hesitant to get a poem tattooed to myself. talk about a final > draft. words have such power in the air, it stagggers my mind to what > they have in the flesh. Logos? word becoming flesh? > > i have a symbol tatooed to my leg. some pre-literate cultures use > pictograms to remember stories (i.e. the Walum Olum of the Lenni > Lenape). how about a poem in pictures? somehow a secret meaning > seems safer than a public poem. fascinating, thanks for posting this. > > tim martin ---- WritingDubuffetTitles (OpenSource InterWriting) ISBN 82-92428-29-1 http://joglars.org/InterWriting/index.php/WritingDubuffetsTitles ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:27:20 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Hey Poetics List In-Reply-To: <006701c516d0$dc24e020$187e37d2@com747839ba04b> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All I have gotten three spammed emails that had (poetics) included in the address R Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Richard Taylor > Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 4:18 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: 4' 33" Carefully Composed Silence > > > I am well aware of the point - or that point re ambient sound - there are > others as everyone agrees - he was great generator of ideas - > but also Charles Ives's father experimented with the prepared piano in the > 19th century - I am no expert on music - but I was reading a book > on modern > music and Cowell was discussed - I looked him up and indeed he was an > original -but I also like Ives's concepts his mixing of sounds > -popular and > so-called classical - and the sheer energy of his music...and back to his > father - once he let a certain John Bell sing out of tune as the > main thing > was the 'spirit' or gusto in the man - there was no "correct" music - it > was the joy of it , the conceptual aspect, the ideas - strange > that in theUS > Ives was neglected so much (or for so long) - he epitomizes the so-called > American dream - but this is always the case (I don't care that he bcame a > multimillionnaire - good on him) - the major innovators are > either attacked > or neglected or are actually in danger...under the surface of US > Capitalism > we have a new-Stalinist-Breznevian-McCarthyist [some strange > configuration] > America waiting to be born - in more or less subtle changed form - with > Rumsford and Ashcroft writing all the poetry - Rice doing all the > music and > so on .... > > Richard Taylor > > Auckland - New Zealand > > richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz > > Poet ("Well..." ) / Chess Addict (partly recovered) /Was 15 stone > - working > on it -/ Grandfather/ BA /NZCE/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: > > --------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice > cream."---------------------- > > ASPECT BOOKS www.abebooks.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas savage" > To: > Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 8:50 AM > Subject: Re: 4' 33" Carefully Composed Silence > > > > The point behind Cage's silent piano piece seems to be, however, that > > there is no silence. Ambient noise from the audience is heard > throughout. > > Still, Cage was and is a great composer, even though he is now deceased. > > Did you know, that his prepared piano innovations , in fact, originate > > with Henry Cowell. Not that the works so produced were not written by > > Cage but that the method of putting things on the strings > originated with > > Cowell. > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > -- > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > > > > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 11:04:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Larsen Subject: Re: Tattoo You In-Reply-To: <20050219.073247.2063.115415@webmail18.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 07:32 AM 2/19/2005, Tim Martin wrote: >I'd be hesitant to get a poem tattooed to myself. talk about a final >draft. words have such power in the air, it stagggers my mind to what >they have in the flesh. Logos? word becoming flesh? It's not so bad, Tim. I have a one-line poem tattooed on my right shoulder. Written by myself: YOU OTTER LOSE and there's a picture of an otter, smiling. Looks like he just caught a fish, the lucky guy LRSN ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 14:18:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: konrad Subject: silence / metaphor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Herb Levy wrote regarding Cage: > 4'33" is in three sections; the first section is 30"; the > second section is 2'23" & the final section is 1'40". > Demarking these sections clearly in performance is as > difficult for a musician as maintaining performing > concentration while not playing the instrument they've spent > years working on. Great post. How do you demark it on a recording? I imagine Zappa on his performance lighting a cigarette at the beginning, taking a loud drag/exhale at :30, and 2:23 and stubbing it out at the end. Robert Corbett wrote: >And no, not all language is "vitally" metaphorical. All is >metaphorical but if computer manuals was written like the >Triumph of Life--well they would be better reading but even >less helpful than they are now. Shelley is not naive about his >_language_, so don't you be either. Been trying. Shelley isn't naive, but that quote is just biased in its emphasis. It took til 1980 and "Metaphors We Live By" by George Lakoff (who was advertised here recently) and Mark Johnson before even linguists had good tools to acknowledge the deeply systematic use of metaphor in daily language, not to mention professional argot. Check it: just listen to how you express yourself moment to moment -- even 'express yourself' is rooted in metaphor! There is vitality in the creation of novel metaphors based on 'family resemblances' to old ones. But after centuries of the sedimentary accretion and elaboration of these kinds of tropes in literature, Dada, Lang-Po, Vis-Po or punkier aleatory or procedural work says: fuck that! Another kind of linguistic vitality. I don't think it's an accident that Surrealism and Wittgenstein's analysis of grammar came at the same time. They're both trying new rhetoric to get out from under that weight. Cage too for that matter. Maybe it's not such a big deal, but i think it's not helpful to define poetry (or poets), as opposed to other activities, as having an *essential* efficacy in changing language. A handy counter-example seemed to be scientific language, which ultimately alters language to deal with its non-linguistic discoveries. Of course this doesn't mean poets aren't more aware of banging their heads against the wall of language. Expressing a powerful evanescant experience is different than explaining an equation. The good "W" might have said, there are limits captured in our grammar. His "Grammar" ultimately should include, as much as word order, declension and case agreement, systematic metaphorical constructions (such as those pointed out by Lakoff and Johnson), which even find their way into the best poets' work. konrad ^Z ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 14:52:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Beth Simon Subject: 2 positions, creative writing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Indiana University Purdue University Department of English and Linguistics 2101 E. Coliseum Blvd. Fort Wayne, IN 46805-1499 Visiting Instructor / Visiting Assistant Professor http://www.ipfw.edu/engl Two one-year replacement positions, each primarily in creative writing. M.A. minimum; M.F.A. or Ph.D. with creative thesis preferred. Publications and evidence of effective college-level teaching required. Four courses per semester. Send letter of application, c.v., and three letters of reference to Prof. Beth Simon, Chair, Creative Writing Search, Department of English and Linguistics, Indiana University-Purdue University, 2101 E Coliseum Boulevard, Fort Wayne, IN 46805-1499. Screening will begin immediately and continue until the position is filled. IPFW is an Affirmative Action, Equal Opportunity Employer ****************** (one or both positions might include some 20th-21st lit) (and) (sorry, but one-yr positions are usu 4-4) beth beth lee simon, ph.d. associate professor, linguistics and english indiana university purdue university fort wayne, in 46805-1499 u.s. voice (011) 260 481 6761; fax (011) 260 481 6985 email simon@ipfw.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 04:16:55 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: [job] Visiting Assistant Professor of English MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://tinyurl.com/4vy3s CREATIVE WRITING : Visiting Assistant Professor of English and Creative Writing Visiting Assistant Professor of English and Creative Writing, concentration in poetry and magazine production, for one-year appointment to begin in fall 2005 at Susquehanna University. PhD (preferred) or MFA. Possibility of tenure-track developing for PhD applicants. Submit application letter and CV to Gary Fincke, Director, Writers Institute, Susquehanna University, Selinsgrove, PA 17870 by March 10. Susquehanna is a selective, residential, liberal arts institution of approximately 1900 students. Its 220 acre campus, noted for its beauty, is located in Selinsgrove, PA, 50 miles north of Harrisburg in the scenic Susquehanna River Valley, about a three hour drive from Philadelphia, Washington, D.C., and New York City. For more information about the University please consult: www.susqu.edu . Susquehanna University is an equal opportunity employer; women and minorities are especially encouraged to apply. AA/EOE. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 16:43:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Tattoo You MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit greenaway's adaptation of the pillow book sucked a great film-maker gone haywire a great book destroyed - used a chines girl to play a japanese girl all wrong - my wife thinks that japgirl tatoo thing may be wrong too since basically until very recently only yakuza men got tatoos but hey i'll show ya mine anytime ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 17:26:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: (text transform programs w/awk, perl, shell, for presentation) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed (text transform programs w/awk, perl, shell, for presentation) Examples for Normal This trip worries me. 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the the are the the the clearing great freed kneeled Siegel been been scene these They they light voice jailed crime Think point trip This this ask all celebrities walking will filled telling home came time time remember famous find hands too who good woods woods from upon thought know for for our were here forest Normal worries terrific was was myself upset upset must let let put Later with you you true found have haven always lawyer day why guy === ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 18:48:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hsn Subject: Re: Tattoo You In-Reply-To: <20050219.172758.-75823.5.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hi steve. wrt Pillow Book every element is deliberate, actors/acting notwithstanding. as i'm sure you know, the bloke is rather unconventional. hassen On 2/19/05 4:43 PM, "Steve Dalachinksy" wrote: > greenaway's adaptation of the pillow book sucked a great film-maker gone > haywire > > a great book destroyed - used a chines girl to play a japanese girl > > > all wrong - my wife thinks that japgirl tatoo thing may be wrong too > > since basically until very recently > > only yakuza men got tatoos but hey > > i'll show ya mine anytime ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 22:32:28 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Report From Brad Will Comments: To: Writing and Theory across Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed massacre in brasil: dreams made real, part2 dawn came on confused and quiet =96 a few milling about =96 it was the=20= quietest i had ever seen the camp -- so beautiful at dawn with the=20 light low and cool =96 then the alarm sounded =96 I could see it wasn=92t=20= happening now =96 people started appearing slowly from all points=20 gathering around a car with a sound system for news =96 it was plain = and=20 simple =96 30 trucks on their way all full of military police =96 all = the=20 time the siren didn=92t stop ringing =96 more people came up to the=20 barricades =96 many ran off to tell their loved ones =96 what a diverse=20= group, old and young of every color and description with young children=20= in their arms and little dogs running wild =96 surprisingly it was less=20= panicky than the night before =96 they were solidifying the barricades=20= quickly but there was little more to do =96 there was a quick interview=20= of police brass for the corporate press -- the traffic had stopped on=20= the street outside the encampment -- they had blocked all the roads=20 leading to the camp -- i had no idea what was happening on the other=20 side but hoped there might be an escape route there -- in the distance=20= i could see the military police unloading from buses -- they were=20 geared up like storm troopers with green and black war paint -- i=20 photoed a line of women who had formed in front of the barricades and=20 were praying and crying, some with their children in their arms -- soon=20= there were about a hundred troops lined up in formation in three=20 squadrons -- i started to realize just how hopeless this was -- a call=20= went out for everyone to be at the barricade -- huge block of peaceful=20= pilgrims collected there -- all ages and races with their hands in the=20= air -- theresistance fighters had mostly vanished -- the military=20 started to move in in formation with sheilds raised tight like a turtle=20= shell -- i didnt see anyone even throw a stone -- suddenly behind me=20 there was an explosion -- it was a concussion grenade launched from a=20 tear gas rocket -- i was hiding behind the edge of a brick wall and was=20= completely confused how it could be behind me with my eyes on the=20 police -- another explotion directly behind me and i felt the slam=20 against my skin and my ears went deaf ringing -- they were already in=20 the camp -- it was pandemonium -- everyone was running and screaming --=20= as i ran i saw them coming from my flank -- and aiming to shoot again=20 not more than thirty feet away -- then all hell broke losse -- suddenly=20= there was gas, rubber bullets, concussion grenades on all sides --=20 immediately i recognized the sound of real bullets -- i tried twice to=20= stop and film but only for seconds until bullets flew near by -- they=20 were advancing on either side of me in large groups -- it wasnt safe=20 anywhere in the streets -- i saw two women face down in the street -- i=20= dont know if they were alive -- at my feet i saw blood mixed in the dry=20= dirt -- everywhere people running in panic and screaming and trying to=20= find some shelter from the barrage -- i headed to a back yard trying to=20= cut through the backs of houses and was slowed by barbed wire between=20 all the yards -- there was tall yuka plants giving me some cover as i=20 ran -- the military units were already past me on the main avenue and=20 running rampant shooting everything -- it was so terrifying -- they=20 were shooting at anything that moved -- there was no where to go -- i=20 looked up and a door opened and a woman was motioning for me to come in=20= -- i ran inside with another older couple and they slammed the door to=20= total darkness -- inside there were two babies trying to scream but the=20= were gagging on the tear gas -- they showed me a bucket of water to=20 wash off the gas -- a man opened the door to look out and i came around=20= to film -- i saw military point at us and yell something -- we had our=20= hands in the air but he and another raised there guns to shoot -- as=20 the door slammed shut the bullets hit the house -- we all hit the=20 ground -- one woman was having a panic attack -- i could smell gas=20 from just outside creeping in -- they cracked a window the breathe and=20= i could see two women with babies and a tiny yound girl on the bed --=20 the whole home was one small room and made of simple bricks and used=20 furniture with two beds right next to the kitchen -- it was really=20 beautiful and simple -- i imagined the bulldozer destorying it all with=20= us inside -- the babies started to recover from the gas and the man=20 opened another window but was seen by military and there was more=20 shooting -- everyone was screaming i htink to get on the ground -- i=20 didnt know what to do -- i tried to film but paced and walked over to=20 the corner to cry -- what in gods name was happening out there -- the=20 sound of shots and screaming was contant -- i was trembling -- there=20 were police right outside yelling orders to come out -- the man yelled=20= something back about being peaceful -- i yelled that i was=20 international press -- he opened the door -- i raised my hands high=20 with video camera in one hand -- they were in regular uniforms the=20 woman who was panicked before passed out right in front of her husband=20= as she walked out -- he grabbed for her -- the police made they they=20 were going to shoot -- screaming at him i guess to put up his hands but=20= they couldnt see his hands were holding his wife -- i yelled we needed=20= a doctor -- it meant nothing to them -- finally he raised his hands and=20= dropped her there on the ground -- i started walking out -- they had=20 pistols drawn and pointed at my head -- i couldnt understand what they=20= were screaming at me but they looked like they would shoot -- i kept=20 repeating i didnt understand -- i was an international journalist --=20 they mimed to keep my head down -- as i walked out with my head down a=20= few of they ran up and slammed into me, twisting my arms and kicking my=20= feet out -- i got punched in the head and another jumped on top of me=20 -- after they ripped the camera out of my hand and had me in plastic=20 cuffs they started kicking me again -- i got one of the officers names=20= who beat me, torres -- he seemed like he was in command and picked me=20 up and started screaming questions at me -- i asked if he spoke spanish=20= and he screamed no one speaks spanish in here -- one of the others=20 handed him my camera and i got a woman cop to put my glasses in my=20 front pocket -- they started ripping through my bag -- i told them=20 again i was a journalist from new york city -- they started to cut my=20 bag off my back but i managed to explain how to get it off -- there=20 were other more official looking officers in white uniforms who=20 appeared near by and seemed to pretend they were not interested with=20 their name tags turned away from me -- they yanked me back to the main avenue and motioned me to head off=20 toward the main entrance -- the plastic cuffs were so tight even the=20 adreneline couldnt stop the pain -- i was completely confused but saw=20 women with children walking the same direction and just followed them=20 leaving my video camera still running in torres=B4s hands -- there were=20= troops still coming in with different kinds of uniforms -- there was=20 still shooting but a lot of it was further away deeper in the camp --=20 there was a long empty street and i saw a cat scurry across and crouch=20= under a fence -- everyone was getting evicted today -- as i was walking=20= i recognized a policeman from the corporate press interview -- he=20 stopped me and started looking through my bag -- i told him i was a=20 journalist from the usa -- it seemed to mean nothing to any of them --=20= as he was rifling through my things a huge military policeman with a=20 mask pulled up and black bullet proof vest stopped and looked at my=20 credencials -- he said they were fake and slammed me upside the head=20 with an open hand so hard i almost fell off my feet except the other=20 officer who was smiling now still had me by the arm and was holding me=20= steady for the other --he led me toward the entrance where the=20 barricades had been pushed aside -- in front of me were hundreds of=20 detainees kneeling on the ground -- two cuffed together at the wrist --=20= there was black smoke coming up in a half dozen different parts of the=20= camp -- i could still here the shooting -- they pushed me onto my knees=20= with the other prisoners -- what the fuck next (this is all that was sent thru...) 'In sum, we are an army of dreamers, and therefore invincible. How can=20= we fail to win, with this imagination overturning everything. Or=20 rather, we do not deserve to lose.' - Subcomandante Marcos= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:19:15 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Japanese Women, tattoos, Yakusa and the word "Jap" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" One morning I was riding the train to work in Ogori, Kyushu. It was about 9 o'clock and we were heading into the countryside. (I used to work at a woman's college that was quite literally surounded by rice fields.) Anyway, this rather attractive lady--about 30 years old I'd say--was nodding off in her seat almost opposite me. She was wearing slacks and the right pant leg rode up as she leaned back in the seat and nodded. She had a tattoo that began somewhere in her shoe and flowered over her ankle and up. It was a complete tattoo, from what I could see. Evidently this woman was a Yakusa "wife," but she was taking care to keep her tattoo covered--as mostly everyone does in the countryside. Even the guys. Not so with two of my women students at Meikai university. One lady had a rather dramatic black dragon tattooed to her left shoulder blade and another had a small read and white floral pattern on her neck. Both of these women openly displayed their tattoos. This could be because Tokyo is not Japan but another planet entirely where the usual kata do not apply. So, Steve, tell your wife that tattoos openly displayed by Japanese women happen but are pretty rare. The two students I speak of are the first I've seen in 13 years of being here. The Yakusa are pretty scary. I had a wonderful student--again in Kyushu--who was working a part time job at a small supermarket in Ijiri, when a Yakusa thug (they call them Chimpira), rolled back his sleeve in the check-out line, revealed his tattoo and demanded a discount. My student was the check-out lady, and when she hesitated, this person began to shout abuse at her. A high school boy who worked as a bagger there tried to tell this idiot to back off and the thug began to thrash this young man. The manager was alerted and when he came downstairs from his office the thug looked up and threatened him, his business, and everyone who worked at the supermarket. He then picked up the groceries without paying for them, laughed in their faces and walked out. The young man was sent to the hospital for his bravery and no police were called. That's the Yakusa. Chinese actresses playing the part of Japanese women is pretty common. It even happens in Japan. Finally, Steve, I have a hard time with the word Jap, as I'm married to a womderful woman from Nagasaki prefecture and have two wonderful children who absolutely don't deserve such a slur. Don't apply it to the women and children, because they don't deserve it. Save it for the Yakusa men, Steve. They'd know exactly how to answer you. Jesse Glass ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:21:50 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Thanks So Far For the Responses! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Interesting. Nobody as yet has told us the title of a poem--or given us the text of a poem--and told us where they would put it on their body. Please do! Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 23:07:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: Thanks So Far For the Responses! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jesse, No titles, no poems...no tattoos for me. But I loved the tale of the = train ride and the details of the young chap standing up to the Yakusa = thug.=20 As for the slur word, Jap, I confess, I'm confused. What exactly is it = that makes saying, "Japanese" acceptable and saying "Jap" unacceptable?=20 I do know that during the war, and for the first ten years or so = following the war, literature, film, and journalistic commentary = shortened the word to "Jap." And I remember as a youth in 1945, 6, 7, = etc, using the word, "Jap" to mean the enemy...but I've no recollection = of reading, hearing, or using the word in the way or manner one might = have used the word, "nigger" to denigrate a race. If you get a moment, = I'd appreciate hearing your views on what exactly makes the shortening = of the word offensive.=20 As a frame of reference, Scottish and Scot aren't offensive in either = form of the word; why is Japanese ok and Jap not? =20 Thanks,=20 Alex ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jesse Glass=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 10:21 PM Subject: Thanks So Far For the Responses! Interesting. Nobody as yet has told us the title of a poem--or given = us the text of a poem--and told us where they would put it on their body. Please do! Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 07:21:10 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: Thanks So Far For the Responses! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "alexander saliby" << As a frame of reference, Scottish and Scot aren't offensive in either form of the word; why is Japanese ok and Jap not? >> Actually, that's not true, or not quite. (Leave aside one is an adjective and the other is a noun, so "Scot" isn't a shortened version of "Scottish" -- I am a Scot so I must be Scottish.) While Scottish and Scot are quite OK, "Scotch" isn't. There are only three things which can be legitimately termed "Scotch" -- whisky, terriers, and porridge. The Wee McGreegor ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 23:25:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Jerrold Shiroma [ duration press ]" Subject: Re: Thanks So Far For the Responses! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit funny, when i've had the pleasure of having 'jap' used in reference to me, it was in no other context but a negative one... ----- Original Message ----- From: "alexander saliby" To: Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 11:07 PM Subject: Re: Thanks So Far For the Responses! I do know that during the war, and for the first ten years or so following the war, literature, film, and journalistic commentary shortened the word to "Jap." And I remember as a youth in 1945, 6, 7, etc, using the word, "Jap" to mean the enemy...but I've no recollection of reading, hearing, or using the word in the way or manner one might have used the word, "nigger" to denigrate a race. If you get a moment, I'd appreciate hearing your views on what exactly makes the shortening of the word offensive. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 03:17:45 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ever nite ever dawn ever 3:00.........drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 08:19:49 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: Thanks So Far For the Responses! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > funny, when i've had the pleasure of having 'jap' used in reference to me, > it was in no other context but a negative one... Add to this, Jerrold, when it comes to *directed* offense, if you're a left-handed Glasgwegian, being described as a cack-handed keelie ... There's an odd argument kicking around here (cis-Atlantic) as to the legitimacy of the term "Asian". Partly because the word (in some circles) is seen as a colonial coinage, more cogently because it manages to conflate Chinese, Japanese, Hindu, Sikh, and Muslim. Whatever happened to the sweet particularity of people? I'm with you in that Japanese is K, Jap is invariably offensive. Not quite as bad as nigger, but on the edge of the same territory. (My daughter is even more rigid than me when it comes to this, which can be a problem given that Loughborough in the East Midlands of England is possibly the most homophobic and racist spot in the UK, so Catherine seems to spend much of her time biting her tongue and swearing under her breath at the casual racism/homophobia of her friends.) The default English of-course-I'm-not-a-racist term is "Paki". Angels weep territory, this. Robin ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 02:52:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Thanks So Far For the Responses! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit no body i have no body it has un(dis)solved i place it it inside my right thigh to keep me hot ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 02:50:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Japanese Women, tattoos, Yakuza and the word "Jap" tatoo you greenaway MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit now many idiots have tattoos men and women all over the world that wasn't my point back then even the hookers probably didn't my wife's from nagasaki too and yakuza is spelled with a z we were talking about the past not idiot japanese young women who break with trasdition because like americans which they secretly long to be they think it's sooooooooooooooooo coooooool to mutilate their flesh with pretty sometimes pretty ugly pictures - sorry about the jap thing jesse - my wife's sitting right next to me now in our tiny little overcluttered pad and we have no kids cause we're both kids ourselves and she gets a kick outta me usin the word the J-P every once in awhile you know jewish american princess i'm sure a few of them now-a-days have tattoos too even if it's against their religion and they might be skinned alive for it when they die i had an uncle once whose father was in the jewish mafia i don't think he had a tattoo had a friend whose parents were in the camps they had tattoos too chinese women in japan playing japanese women? ever watch the iron chef? oh yes and hassen what does wrt mean? and don't get me wrong i love my wife and peter greenaway as well have seen pretty much every film but the falls and baby of the macon and anything after pillow book but his films became more overdown tooo extravagant not really any more complicated or interesting just cinematically over done ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 23:11:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: Tattoo You Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Re Tatoos They are part of Maoritanga - Maori culture - and just recently a woman took a potential employer (who owned a coffee shop) to the race Concilaitons tribulnal as she claimed the reason she was refused a job was she had a moko (facial tatoo mostly ) on her mouth - and that the lady emploer to be had said it would put customers off (it may have been racialy caused - but the owner probably has a right to refuse if someone is wearing strange clothes or has a tatoo - i would reserve that right as an employer - I would reserve the right not to employ people for my own private reasons if I felt I didnt like and (business is business - I am building small business and in business you have to be fairly tough - especialy re employment) (but it shows that more Maori are showing a more open cultural fight back which in itself is a good thing) on- the early Maori had them (but mostly only chiefs or those who were higher so to speak)- a number of Maori now have tatoos eg one very prominent Maori activist - who I have met (( the other day he blasted what he thought was a NZ flag with shot gun and charges are pending!) - the funny side (its amusing even if it was a NZ flag as the flag is very boring a kind of copy of the Union Jack) of that is that it was an Aussie flag - it looks almost the same)) - has a full facial tatoo - the tatoos, like Maori caving, tell stories - in the Maori (early) houses the ornate carvings tell of the tangata whenua -- (people of the land)'s istory - that is it relates the story of the ancestors - the tipuna I personally dont like tattoos - people have right to wear them - but I dont like them. But I suppose that is just me. Richard Taylor Auckland - New Zealand richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet ("Well..." ) / Chess Addict (partly recovered) /Was 15 stone - working on it -/ Grandfather/ BA /NZCE/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: --------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."---------------------- ASPECT BOOKS www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "mIEKAL aND" To: Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 8:06 AM Subject: Re: Tattoo You > The Walum Olum has been debunked for more than a 100 years, but David > Oestreicher pretty much nailed it down with his last book It turns out > to be invented by the nineteeth century master of the imaginary, > Constantin Schmaltz Rafinesque (he also "created" the Devil-Jack > Diamond fish > http://www.smithsonianmag.si.edu/smithsonian/issues99/jan99/ > fishes_jpg.html) took his queues from Joseph Smith, egyptian hierglyphs > etc. > > http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/walamolum.html > > ~mIEKAL > > On Feb 19, 2005, at 9:32 AM, T_Martin wrote: > >> I'd be hesitant to get a poem tattooed to myself. talk about a final >> draft. words have such power in the air, it stagggers my mind to what >> they have in the flesh. Logos? word becoming flesh? >> >> i have a symbol tatooed to my leg. some pre-literate cultures use >> pictograms to remember stories (i.e. the Walum Olum of the Lenni >> Lenape). how about a poem in pictures? somehow a secret meaning >> seems safer than a public poem. fascinating, thanks for posting this. >> >> tim martin > ---- > > WritingDubuffetTitles (OpenSource InterWriting) > ISBN 82-92428-29-1 > http://joglars.org/InterWriting/index.php/WritingDubuffetsTitles > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 23:40:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: Tattoo You "One Huge Moko" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response "Here comes Third Man, tattooed from head to foot: he's like a map, a multi-dimensional coloured moving map, one huge moko. He has returned, having "done the rounds" in his wheelchair - he goes all night, touring the hospital, seeing, thinking, talking. He's no fool - he wouldn't waste his time saying "Ein jeder Engel es schrecklick" over and over to himself. He passes my bed. "Out like a light eh?"... I mutter "Morpheus", drowsily. He counters: "Word rapping now eh?" That is from my poem sequence /journal -poem called "Hospital" - some more of it - Hospital 1 "Since only children have the power to grip the lightning." The above sentence read, in Baxter's Collected Poems, in Middlemore Hospital, Otahuhu, 8.45, the 15th of January 2004. The air con, the drip machines, the click clacks of comings and goings... Someone calls. Here are three men: we share nights. Third Man (also known as Spider Man) is a Maori who crushed his foot in a hydraulic lifter while shifting a house. He tells everyone how he was 17 years in Paremoremo: "Hospital is exactly like prison...you have to adapt, and fight for yourself: and learn." I call him Third Man as initially there were three of us in the Ward: Spider Man and me shared with a South African businessman who accidentally hit his tibia with a gimpy (no break, but bad enough for the doctors to be concerned). He gets on his cell phone in the morning telling everyone (at his office, whoever, wherever) it's no big matter. He speaks in English, then a language I can't make out - Afrikaans, German, Polish, Russian? Now Third Man returns on the wheelchair he has rigged for himself. He's been here since December. Before I came here I was reading Rilke's "Duino Elegies" (German/English edition) and the phrase "Ein jeder Engel es schrecklick" ('Every angel is terrible') keeps running in my mind. I had also been reading a poem a day of Smithyman's. Baxter's job is to illuminate Smithyman by providing a contrast. Here comes Third Man, tattooed from head to foot: he's like a map, a multi-dimensional coloured moving map, one huge moko. He has returned, having "done the rounds" in his wheelchair - he goes all night, touring the hospital, seeing, thinking, talking. He's no fool - he wouldn't waste his time saying "Ein jeder Engel es schrecklick" over and over to himself. He passes my bed. "Out like a light eh?"... I mutter "Morpheus", drowsily. He counters: "Word rapping now eh?" It has been established that the electrically controlled bed is mine, as it is for old women. I am a man, but dignity allows. If I had to I would survive 30 years in Paremoremo. Dignity allows, we reach; we are, here, somewhere. Third Man wheels up to my bed again, tells me "The party's just begun". I rise, I write: I am not an angel or a super being. Voices: the air conditioning. Tomorrow they may cut, cure or kill. Mein Tochter has not (yet) come. Tomorrow perhaps. We live, we live in, hope. Words. Later I rouse - I took some Tramadol and something else - and talk on and on - about God, fear, love, and nations, and rugby: and nations. The drugs make me talk. I decide to avoid painkillers as much as possible. My foot and ankle area of the lower leg, where the bones snapped at the Panmure Basin (I dropped, ridiculously from some monkey bars), swells and swells. An operation is impossible. When Gerhardt was here he was interested in how Zulu is spread... talk of languages and cultures. I think (now, here, typing, this up) of how I was bashed in the face in the 1981 protests against the Springbok tour. The cops were trying to smash my teeth in. Sebastian (about 7 months) listens a little: cannot understand he might be reason, light to me. Victor grips my shoulder. In 1990 the cops knocked his eye out with a baton. Later the nurse helps get me out, we change the bed, I piss in a bottle, wash with a basin and flannel, the bed is made, I get back in, leg up: I am re-established. Morning will bring. Hospital 2 Waiting to be happened to can be terrible: but, it happens: you imagine that they will cut - one seems sacrifice - but Third Man has had many ops, knows the land, the lie, the lies: is about at night, being. Paracetemol only - this morning. The air conditioner sings. Today, the sun: the master machine. Third Man reports of a man who has lost a leg, who "has the right attitude". True. I read a book, forgetting what might or might not be true, is. Everywhere they are moving, waking, dying, arising, and Here, and there: recording, relaying, collating; notes are made, records. (One is perhaps information, hopefully registering, remembered.) The sun winks - it knows - Te Ra knows - somehow things work. Systems. There is always doubt, error, annoyance.. Remember falling and then the click, the snap: definite, clear. 16/1/04 Hospital 3 I am now demoted! A man of eighty or so is in the bed opposite. My operation is over if not out. One accustoms. Each minute is to be resurrected into a bank of jewels, or violets, the music stealing (as is the usual case with these things). Know that layers on layers hereby lie: note this: note that as I am now writing this after the time it took place, or as I recall it took place (I think I had come out of an operation, and my recollections are still uncertain as to time and exact place) reality is impossible, though a bus is undoubtedly still a bus. Stealth - how time throats us. An old man with my name, Richard, is here now. It is very hot, as they don't open the side windows: I am sweating and swelling: I turn the fan on... how to say things? I evaded the claw of the Wahi Ngaro I watch the boxing, a little ill from some tramadol I think I took and one (the only one) inject of morphine from the machine. Mundine defeats a Jap boxer - with courage the Japanese man comforts his daughter. Mundine was fast. But the Japanese man - the man, the father, he falls but falls with courage. Suddenly I fear death. The old man has come from another hospital, is very old, perhaps his is some terrible struggle. I hope he recovers. I too have reason to live. To struggle. Third Man calls people whanau - wants to know about everyone's whanau. He has "F U C K Y O U" tattooed on his forehead. Are we are all whanau? the pen, the tongue, the idea, aroha, being here... "I was 17 years in Paremoremo - I did all sorts of things, hospital is just like jail, you have to learn the system to survive: I did all sorts of things, I raped a woman, but all women get raped." I've worked with men like him.his angle is to belittle me - the Pakeha: somehow I want to like the guy, but am preoccupied with surviving. In some things he's right, or is he? Fuck the black hori, fuck whatever women he might or might not have raped: I only want to not feel sick. Hospital 4 Third Man teaches me the word wharepaki which at first I mistake for parepake. That's what I'm worrying about - how can I have a shower and later a shit with dignity? Eventually I get to the toilet and it is easier than I feared. But wharepaki is better than toilet or shithouse or "how do I go about getting to the toilet for a shit with a cast on my leg on a wheel chair?" Bog is ok. Bog rather than dunny... How did we get here? By what windings, derivations, tricks, trials, travails, accidents, slips, deaths, births, misdirections? The ships set forth - in my parents' case, for New Zealand, Aotearoa. My father and his brother, from London, to work on farms - to maybe keep a farm. The depression met them. My father soon gave up his hobby of painting. My uncle arrived owing $20 pounds for a tooth op, but later became an agricultural scientist and the head of a chemical company. He died of bone cancer aged about 85. My mother came from England to Melbourne then New Zealand in 1939. "It looked like a village." Hospital 5 Waiting for the operation. I feel calm - whether because of the valium, or because I am getting used - used to this place.. People. People in the corridors. Third Man is out again. There is a Samoan girl with a broken leg in the next bed - she is to go to the women's ward when beds are free. One hears of shortages, crises, invasions, the destruction of social services, doctors worked near to death - terrible terrible terrible - how true? One cannot know. The three terribles were ironic but I meant it (insofar as one can mean)...do you see what I mean? I spy with my little eye. The complex, the nexus of things like a body: head and brain, the thousands of nerves, neurons, blood, fibres, blood pulsing, heart pumping, electrons, sugar, mitochondria and ribosomes, transmitters, synapses: all of it like Sebastian's Busytown. A neuronic New York, a Megalopolis. A megalomaniacal metropolis... One is private partly. Shut up mind, stop thinking. Pissing in a bottle is absurd. Why do I seem to float? Their job is their job. The cat was fed - house shut up. I chucked my spare set of keys to some fulla from the ambulance: please drive my car home, lock it, throw the keys inside and lock the door - I have spare set. I read - intermittently - Baxter's Jerusalem sonnets. I am surprised; they are better than I remember. Everything is surprise. Hospital 6 Wahi Ngaro the rocks emerging into men - the process is terrible, tyrannical Richard Taylor 2004 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 13:03:01 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: Tattoo You MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hassen, i agree 100% with you on The Pillow Book. it's my favorite Greenaway film, making beautiful the human body and the written word in one brush stroke. poetry never seemed so HOT, frankly! when i was a kid i used to have intense nose bleeds, which eventually resulted in electrical cauterization. but at one point in those years of bleeding, i would let the blood flow into my hands, then cover my naked body with the blood. when it dried (which a coating of blood doesn't take too long, maybe a couple of minutes), i'd wet my fingers with water (or spit if i wasn't in the bathroom) and draw symbols on my body. when i was down at the Edgar Cayce Institute i met a psychic woman there, a lovely old grandma type, and she told me that i used to do this! i was already getting used to psychic people at this time, so i wasn't too shocked, but there is always a bit of shock when you encounter a psychic, maybe because you feel slightly violated. but anyway, she told me that those symbols i was drawing on my bloodied body were from another alphabet from another lifetime. my interest in studying the runes today has much to do with this, i'm sure. especially studying Freya Asswyn _http://www.aswynn.co.uk/_ (http://www.aswynn.co.uk/) but also, when i was a young teen, and had my first boyfriend, he and i used to go to a creek, deep in the woods where i lived. one day i started painting mud symbols on his naked body, and this became a ritual for us both, something we looked forward to, something very strange, something secret since it was too awkward to tell any of our friends. it doesn't seem even remotely weird to me now to do something like this, but at thirteen it sure did. CAConrad _http://phillysound.blogspot.com_ (http://phillysound.blogspot.com) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 12:53:22 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Now on Conchology Blog Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The Anxiety of Alan Sondheim regarding his Trip to Normal, Illinois Alan Sondheim is Coming to Illinois State University Home of Beer Nuts, State Farm Insurance, and the GOP William James Bowdlerizes Thoreau's Darkness Henry David Thoreau and the Enlightenment Factor of Loving-Kindness A Sesquicentennial Procession of Thoreau's Daily Journals Interview with G G: a student Newspaper in Muncie Indiana Advice about Writing Love Poems An Inaugural Speech by a Juniper Bush Profile of GG at Chicago Postmodern Poetry http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 12:44:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Berkson Subject: Berkson & Padgett Reading Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Suzi Winson and Medicine Show present: BILL BERKSON and RON PADGETT @ WORD/PLAY Medicine Show's 21st Annual Reading Series Sunday, March 20th, 3pm poetry $6. champagne $0. for more information call 212.262.4216 Medicine Show 549 West 52nd St. (between 10th & 11th), 3rd fl NYC 10019 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 04:41:38 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Neil Pattison Subject: W.S. Graham Conference Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 With apologies - do pass this on to any friends or colleagues who might be = interested.=20 -- W.S. Graham: =93What is He Like?=94 9th April 2005 University of Cambridge Faculty of English The first academic conference on the work of W.S. Graham: featuring=20 panels assessing established contexts, and searching out new=20 approaches to the poet=92s writings. Speakers include: Karina Dent, Matthew Francis, Jim Keery, Peter Maber, Jeremy=20 Noel-Tod, Malcolm Phillips, Robin Purves, Alan Riach, Peter Riley,=20 Josh Robinson, Michael Snow, Robert Stanton & Keston Sutherland. Registration forms can be downloaded from www.wsgraham2005.com Registration will cost =A310 until 1st April and =A315 thereafter. www.wsgraham2005.com wsgraham2005@graffiti.net --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 16:18:08 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: call for manuscripts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I will be guest editing an issue of the electronic poetry journal MiPOesias. I'm looking for epistolary poetry, textual improprieties, list poems, abecedariums, poems that question, poems that sing, poems that exude pheromones. Go to this site for submission guidelines: http://www.mipoesias.com/volume19Issue2/guidelines.html Tom Beckett ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 16:59:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: computr 1hz puls MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed computr 1hz puls http://www.asondheim.org/capt.jpg found a 1920 electrocardiograph machine today this isn't it this is an old photograph of real growth speed 1hz no storage welcome to the real world _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 05:16:24 +0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Hardacre Subject: Re: Wanda Phipps Reading in SoHo Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response hope this goes great tonight, wanda . . . ciao, paul. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wanda Phipps" To: Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 5:23 AM Subject: Wanda Phipps Reading in SoHo > Come Join Us: > > Monday, February 21st at 7pm. > > Miles Marshall Lewis (Akashic) > Lee Stringer (Seven Stories) > Wanda Phipps (Soft Skull) with Stephen B. Antonakos on guitar > > McNally Robinson Booksellers > 50 Prince St (Mulberry/Lafayette) > 212.274.1160 > > > -- > Wanda Phipps > > Wake-Up Calls: 66 Morning Poems > my first full-length book of poetry > has just been released by Soft Skull Press > > available at the Soft Skull site: > http://www.softskull.com/detailedbook.php?isbn=1-932360-31-X > > and on Amazon.com: > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/193236031X/ref=rm_item > > > and don't forget to check out my website MIND HONEY > http://www.mindhoney.com > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/2005 > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 16:30:46 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Benjamin Basan Subject: Re: Tattoo You "One Huge Moko" In-Reply-To: <000701c517e8$9c0e46c0$252756d2@com747839ba04b> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 2/21/05 1:40 AM, "Richard Taylor" wrote: > "Here comes Third Man, tattooed from head to foot: he's like a map, Kind of like Lydia? My life was wrapped around the circus. Her name was Lydia. I met her at the world's fair in 1900, marked down from 1940. Ah, Lydia. She was the most glorious creature Under the su-un. Guiess. DuBarry. Garbo. Rolled into one. Oooooooh Lydia oh Lydia, say have you met Lydia, Lydia, the Tatooed Lady. She has eyes that folks adore so, And a torso even more so. Lydia oh lydia, that encyclopidia, Oh Lydia the Queen of Tatoo. On her back is the Battle of Waterloo. Beside it the wreck of the Hesperus, too. And proudly above waves the Red, White, and Blue, You can learn a lot from Lydia. La la la, la la la, la la la, la la la When her robe is unfurled, she will show you the world, If you step up and tell her where. For a dime you can see Kankakee or Paris, Or Washington crossing the Delaware. La la la, la la la, la la la, la la la Oh Lydia oh lydia, say have you met Lydia, Oh Lydia the Tatooed Lady When her muscles start relaxin', Up the hill comes Andrew Jackson Lydia oh Lydia, that encyclopidia, oh Lydia the queen of them all! For two bits she will do a mazurka in jazz, With a view of Niagara that nobody has. And on a clear day you can see Alcatraz. You can learn a lot from Lydia. La la la, la la la, la la la, la la la Come along and see Buff'lo Bill with his lasso. Just a little classic by Mendel Picasso. Here is Captain Spaulding exploring the Amazon. Here's Godiva but with her pajamas on. La la la, la la la, la la la, la la la Here is Grover Whalen unveilin' the Trilon. Over on the West Coast we have Treaure Island. Here's Najinsky a-doin' the rhumba. Here's her social security numba. {whistles}La la la, la la la, la la la, la la la Oh Lydia, oh Lydia that encyclopidia, Oh Lydia the champ of them all. She once swept an Admiral clear off his feet. The ships on her hips made his heart skip a beat. And now the old boy's in command of the fleet, For he went and married Lydia. I said Lydia {He said Lydia} They said said Lydia {We said Lydia} La La! From "At the Circus" - Marx Bros. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 23:31:26 +0100 Reply-To: Anny Ballardini Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: my blwough In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20050220125306.033479b8@mail.ilstu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I would also like to advertise my blwough: there are pics of this nice art gallery MeranoArte, I always love to go and visit (click and they open up); some notes on the latest movies I watched: The Draughtsman Contract by Peter Greenaway Solaris by Andrei Tarkovsky Edward II by Derek Jarman A woman under the influence - and The Killing of a Chinese Bookie by John Cassavetes by Derek Jarman again: Super8 Programme (he is English) vol. 1 & 2; I advertise Big Bridge the great poetry site of Michael Rothenberg and there is one of my pOms among the elegies; I translated a couple of pOms by Michael Rothenberg and one by Rebecca Seiferle; I send you to read a good pOm by Chris Murray on her Texfiles; and I add my _flashing scarlet fishing nets_; I also thank James Finnegan for the list of audios he sent to New Poetry, and talk of the birth day of New Poetry with Carl Sandburg's God's Children sent by James. and much and more... thanks for the visit, if you wish you can leave a couple of pennies to the guardian gods at the entrance :-) appreciated, Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome The aim of the poet is to awaken emotions in the soul, not to gather admirers. Stalker, Andrei Tarkovsky ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 14:32:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "D. Ross Priddle" Subject: YOUR WORDS HERE! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII your words here!, rough rouge, so-and-so's mouth, j inks, skop, a vacant desert, zazette, flying boxcars, quipoem, may day job, colour roll lock, not writ, living on the bridge, glue blur, the numbers can only go up, for red read black, for white read grey, fake buick, bright today, fake brightness, still simulacra, sim event rep, still bolt, nothing text, text issues, nothing copyright, rem face, the signification off- ramp, resize nothing, occupay, the actual copy, in control of your lines?, goablewith, dr, concrete exaction, sience, a public right of access, an especially heavy cigar, mystick, not the war machine, how actual reality is, exist to the end, from another direction, the letters are not actually backwards, mirror writing, confidential poetry, the entrails of lions, coalitions and empires hammond, -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 18:50:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Chant For Those Who Think I'm An Asshole: Sure! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Chant For Those Who Think I'm An Asshole: Sure! I agree! No doubt! True! True enough! Absolutely! Sure thing! Certainly! Yes! Naturally! Definitely! my only I ways! only agree! Yes! can to I can I Of I agree! right! I I should don't I've I right! agree! agree! definitely agree! have No you're can right! You're only right! You absolutely you're be agree! can You're have can I don't I Of right! you're I right! You're No agree! I should have known! corrected! Certainly! ways! you're me my I of of can Naturally! of only Of righter! right Absolutely! True right and enough! You're Sure convinced You couldn't be righter! You've shown me the error of my ways! You've got me there! me! right! Yes! me You've Yes! my surely Yes! Naturally! convinced ways! I definitely agree! definitely doubt agree! I should known! doubt agree! right! should agree! I should definitely can should have only right surely shown I'm You've error thing! You've my You've right! ways! You're completely right! You're right and I'm wrong! I can only agree! I can only agree! True! right! enough! definitely No True You've certainly True! me couldn't I've got to agree! You've definitely convinced me! You've surely convinced me! and there! convinced thing! there! convinced You've You're convinced me! You're absolutely correct! You're certainly correct! I stand corrected! course True! you're course True You're course enough! You course enough! Of course you're right! Of course you're right! Absolutely! completely You've Absolutely! You've Absolutely! there! surely I don't doubt you're right! righter! Absolutely! True! righter! You're You've righter! right You've === ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 16:02:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Lewis LaCook Subject: from The Golden Path MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The m[emes ]or(e, love is always more, that ex[oskeletal]tra line Kierkegaard writes, mor)phine see (video game controllers forgotten on the floor, closed roo)ms to have kick( this alchemy of soiled off the b)ed Mary's ass. You know, the epics start like this: She's light and dark. I like being held in place and squeezed until I'm blinded looking home. Jeran sle(eek elevation, vacant and disruptive st)eps in angles completely still. Caleb wanders into the second living room, bo[nes ordered by function, some ]red momentarily by planning blow-ups on a ruffled screen. I'll plant kisses along Mary's( a frozen rose with petals too frail to ) throat from time to time. Drive's full. Adult-swim could be on. Her fearlessness, war[ against derisive laughter; lean back against and fuse with the fish, become ]mer than anything else. Bad circulation gets around; my hands and feet are cold. Mary is a taoist Mary is a dadaist I live with a cut of birds' wings bloody for a mouth and I'm living in moody villages after midnight crossing a bridge lit over a frozen lake ===== *************************************************************************** Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://www.lewislacook.com/||| Web Programmer|||http://www.corporatepa.com/||| XanaxPop:Mobile Poem Blog-> http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/ Collective Writing Projects--> The Wiki--> http://www.lewislacook.com/wiki/ Appendix M ->http://www.lewislacook.com/AppendixM/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 20:26:26 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: call for manuscripts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: MiPO 2005 The call for manuscripts I sent in earlier apparently had a defective link. Here's my 2nd, hopefully better attempt. Tom Beckett ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 17:29:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: call for manuscripts In-Reply-To: <1f1.35d9be99.2f4a92c2@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Tom B., There is nothing to click here! I can my answer or solution off or away from the Bufffalo List. Thanks, Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > Click here: MiPO 2005 > > The call for manuscripts I sent in earlier apparently had a defective link. > Here's my 2nd, hopefully better attempt. > > Tom Beckett ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 20:33:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis Warsh Subject: United Artists Sale Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In an attempt to liberate back stock of United Artists Books, I'm offering the following titles at the following discount: 1 title / $5 3 titles / $10 For all orders $20 or over postage included. Otherwise, add $3 for postage. All these books are perfectbound paperbacks (except noted) with beautiful covers by Pamela Lawton, George Schneeman, Joe Brainard, Louise Hamlin, Anne Tardos, Rosemary Mayer and Emily Clark among many others. They were published in editions of 500-1000. Please send orders to United Artists Books c/o Lewis Warsh 114 W. 16th St., 5C New York, N.B. 10011 or contact lwarsh@mindspring.com PERSONAL EFFECTS / Charlotte Carter. 93 pages. Cover by Angela Fremond. 1991. LOVE MAKES THINKING DARK / Barbara Henning. 85 pages. Cover by Miranda Maher. 1995. LIQUID AFFAIRS / Match Highfill. 64 pages. Cover by Mimi Fronczak. 1995. POEMS FOR THE WHOLE FAMILY / Daniel Karakul. 86 pages. Cover by Dave Barking. 1994. HEAD / Bill Kushner. 80 pages. Cover photograph by Bernadette Mayer. 1986. LOVE UNCUT; poems 1986 / Bill Kushner. 85 pages. Cover by Louise Hemline. 1990. ONE AT A TIME / Gary Lenhart. 76 pages. Cover by Louise Hemline. 1983. ANOTHER SMASHED PINOCLE / Bernadette Mayer. Cover by Sophia Warsh. 1998. SOMETHING TO HOLD ON TO / Dennis Mortise. 126 pages. Cover by Pamela Lawton. 1995. FOOL CONSCIOUSNESS / Liam O'Gallagher. 102 pages. 1986. POLITICAL CONDITIONS/PHYSICAL STATES / Tom Savage. 80 pages. Cover by George Schneeman. 1993. IN THE HEART OF THE EMPIRE / Harris Stiff. 80 pages. Cover by George Schneeman. ALONG THE RAILS / Elli Schneeman. 76 pages. Cover by Pamela Lawton. 1992. ECHOLALIA / George Tysh. 75 pages. Cover photo by author. 1992. SELECTED POEMS / Charlie Vermont. 64 pages. Cover by Alice Notley. 1981. BLUE MOSQUE / Anne Waldman. 64 pages. Cover by Louise Hamlin. 1988. INFORMATION FROM THE SURFACE OF VENUS / Lewis Warsh. 93 pages. Cover by Louise Hemline. 1989. THE MAHARAJAH'S SON / Lewis Warsh. 110 pages. Cover by Rosemary Mayer. 1977. THE FAST / Hannah Wiener. 43 pages. Cover by Anne Tardos. 1992. also, the following titles are still available (in limited quantity) at prices below: ACROSS THE BIG MAP / Ruth Altmann. 116 pages. 2004. $12. THE CALIFORNIA PAPERS / Steve Carey. 52 pages. Cover by Peter Kanter. 1981. $10. COLUMBUS SQUARE JOURNAL / William Corbett. 64 pages. Cover by Philip Guston. 1976. $12. OWN FACE / Clark Coolidge. 80 pages. Cover by author. 1978. $12. THAT APRIL / Bill Kushner. 80 pages. 2002. $10. THE GOLDEN BOOK OF WORDS / Bernadette Mayer. 80 pages. Cover by Joe Brained. 1978. $12. SONGS FOR THE UNBORN SECOND BABY / Alice Notley. 48 pages. Cover by George Schneeman. 1979. $12. CLEANING UP NEW YORK / Bob Rosenthal. 64 pages. Cover by Rochelle Kraut. 1976. $10. DREAMS / Peter Schjeldahl. 48 pages. (Stapled) Cover by James Rosenquist. 1973. $12. CONTINUITY GIRL / Chris Tysh. 80 pages. 2002. $10. REPORTED MISSING / Lewis Warsh. 24 pages. (Stapled). Cover by Emilie Clark. 2003. $8. For more information about many of these titles check UNITED ARTISTS website www.mindspring.com/-lwarsh/uab/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 20:36:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis Warsh Subject: United Artists Sale Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In an attempt to liberate back stock of United Artists Books, I'm offering the following titles at the following discount: 1 title / $5 3 titles / $10 For all orders $20 or over postage included. Otherwise, add $3 for postage. All these books are perfectbound paperbacks (except noted) with beautiful covers by Pamela Lawton, George Schneeman, Joe Brainard, Louise Hamlin, Anne Tardos, Rosemary Mayer and Emilie Clark among many others. They were published in editions of 500-1000. Please send orders to United Artists Books c/o Lewis Warsh 114 W. 16th St., 5C New York, N.B. 10011 or contact lwarsh@mindspring.com PERSONAL EFFECTS / Charlotte Carter. 93 pages. Cover by Angela Fremond. 1991. LOVE MAKES THINKING DARK / Barbara Henning. 85 pages. Cover by Miranda Maher. 1995. LIQUID AFFAIRS / Match Highfill. 64 pages. Cover by Mimi onczak. 1995. POEMS FOR THE WHOLE FAMILY / Daniel Karakul. 86 pages. Cover by Dave Barking. 1994. HEAD / Bill Kushner. 80 pages. Cover photograph by Bernadette Mayer. 1986. LOVE UNCUT; poems 1986 / Bill Kushner. 85 pages. Cover by Louise Hemline. 1990. ONE AT A TIME / Gary Lenhart. 76 pages. Cover by Louise Hemline. 1983. ANOTHER SMASHED PINOCLE / Bernadette Mayer. Cover by Sophia Warsh. 1998. SOMETHING TO HOLD ON TO / Dennis Mortise. 126 pages. Cover by Pamela Lawton. 1995. FOOL CONSCIOUSNESS / Liam O'Gallagher. 102 pages. 1986. POLITICAL CONDITIONS/PHYSICAL STATES / Tom Savage. 80 pages. Cover by George Schneeman. 1993. IN THE HEART OF THE EMPIRE / Harris Stiff. 80 pages. Cover by George Schneeman. ALONG THE RAILS / Elli Schneeman. 76 pages. Cover by Pamela Lawton. 1992. ECHOLALIA / George Tysh. 75 pages. Cover photo by author. 1992. SELECTED POEMS / Charlie Vermont. 64 pages. Cover by Alice Notley. 1981. BLUE MOSQUE / Anne Waldman. 64 pages. Cover by Louise Hamlin. 1988. INFORMATION FROM THE SURFACE OF VENUS / Lewis Warsh. 93 pages. Cover by Louise Hemline. 1989. THE MAHARAJAH'S SON / Lewis Warsh. 110 pages. Cover by Rosemary Mayer. 1977. THE FAST / Hannah Wiener. 43 pages. Cover by Anne Tardos. 1992. also, the following titles are still available (in limited quantity) at prices below: ACROSS THE BIG MAP / Ruth Altmann. 116 pages. 2004. $12. THE CALIFORNIA PAPERS / Steve Carey. 52 pages. Cover by Peter Kanter. 1981. $10. COLUMBUS SQUARE JOURNAL / William Corbett. 64 pages. Cover by Philip Guston. 1976. $12. OWN FACE / Clark Coolidge. 80 pages. Cover by author. 1978. $12. THAT APRIL / Bill Kushner. 80 pages. 2002. $10. THE GOLDEN BOOK OF WORDS / Bernadette Mayer. 80 pages. Cover by Joe Brained. 1978. $12. SONGS FOR THE UNBORN SECOND BABY / Alice Notley. 48 pages. Cover by George Schneeman. 1979. $12. CLEANING UP NEW YORK / Bob Rosenthal. 64 pages. Cover by Rochelle Kraut. 1976. $10. DREAMS / Peter Schjeldahl. 48 pages. (Stapled) Cover by James Rosenquist. 1973. $12. CONTINUITY GIRL / Chris Tysh. 80 pages. 2002. $10. REPORTED MISSING / Lewis Warsh. 24 pages. (Stapled). Cover by Emilie Clark. 2003. $8. For more information about many of these titles check UNITED ARTISTS website www.mindspring.com/-lwarsh/uab/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 02:33:34 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Cudmore Subject: Re: Thanks So Far For the Responses! In-Reply-To: <03fb01c51724$f219b640$d18f9a51@Robin> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yurr... People you never suspected of being racist talk of going to the Paki shop. I think that is somwhere between Jap and nigger in the offensiveness stakes: the former seems to me more disrespectful than abusive, but often just because people are too lazy to say the whole word, like Scot and Scottish, and BLT & any number of acronyms. I'd restrict Scotch to blended whisky myself... P > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Robin Hamilton > Sent: 20 February 2005 08:20 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Thanks So Far For the Responses! > > > funny, when i've had the pleasure of having 'jap' used in > reference to > > me, it was in no other context but a negative one... > > Add to this, Jerrold, when it comes to *directed* offense, if > you're a left-handed Glasgwegian, being described as a > cack-handed keelie ... > > > > There's an odd argument kicking around here (cis-Atlantic) as > to the legitimacy of the term "Asian". > > Partly because the word (in some circles) is seen as a > colonial coinage, more cogently because it manages to > conflate Chinese, Japanese, Hindu, Sikh, and Muslim. > > Whatever happened to the sweet particularity of people? > > I'm with you in that Japanese is K, Jap is invariably offensive. > > Not quite as bad as nigger, but on the edge of the same territory. > > (My daughter is even more rigid than me when it comes to > this, which can be a problem given that Loughborough in the > East Midlands of England is possibly the most homophobic and > racist spot in the UK, so Catherine seems to spend much of > her time biting her tongue and swearing under her breath at > the casual racism/homophobia of her friends.) > > The default English of-course-I'm-not-a-racist term is "Paki". > > Angels weep territory, this. > > Robin > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 22:31:52 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: call for manuscripts In-Reply-To: <1f1.35d9be99.2f4a92c2@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's the link: http://www.mipoesias.com/Volume19Issue2/guidelines.html On Feb 20, 2005, at 7:26 PM, Tom Beckett wrote: > Click here: MiPO 2005 > > The call for manuscripts I sent in earlier apparently had a defective > link. > Here's my 2nd, hopefully better attempt. > > Tom Beckett ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:27:42 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: The Good Doctor is Gone MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Author Hunter S. Thompson Kills Himself http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~2723492,00.html "On Feb. 20, Dr. Hunter S. Thompson took his life with a gunshot to the head at his fortified compound in Woody Creek, Colorado." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 00:42:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Taylor Subject: The Naked Readings this Sunday the 27th (Spread the Word) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The Naked Readings Poetry Music Art Life Art Music Poetry Open Mic. Poetry Series This Sunday February 27th 7-10 @ Makeready's Gallery 214 Artspace 214 Glenridge Avenue Montclair, NJ www.makereadypress.com Featuring... Jessica Torres (visit www.SpiralBridge.org/home.asp to read the works of Jessica) With the Music of... Carolann Solebello Join us at this inspiring event celebrating the words and worlds of poets from all over the Metropolitan area traversing the diverse realms of creative expression. Directions to GALLERY 214 - From GSP, exit 151, west on Watchung Ave, 1.5 miles to RR overpass, left on Park St. go 1.1 miles, left on Bloomfield Ave., 2 lights to N. Willow St.; At North Willow St turn right, go one block to Glenridge Ave. turn left, go 1 1/2 blocks. Rtes. 3 & 46, exit "Valley Rd, Montclair", south 4.3 miles, left on Bloomfield Ave, 3 lights to N. Willow. At North Willow St turn left, go one block to Glenridge Ave. turn left, go 1 1/2 blocks. From Route 280 exit 8B Prospect Ave. north 2 miles, right on Bloomfield Ave. 1 mile to N. Willow St.; at North Willow St turn left, go one block to Glenridge Ave. turn left, go 1 1/2 blocks. From Port Authority, NYC, DeCamp Bus #33 or #66 to Bloomfield Ave., Montclair For more information please visit us on-line @ www.SpiralBridge.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 21:39:07 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: TINFISH REPRINTS AND FREE STUFF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tinfish Press has just put Rob Wilson's chapbook, _Pacific Postmodern_, on-line for free at tinfishpress.com. Click the free stuff link. We've just reprinted Lisa Linn Kanae's _Sista Tongue_, which is taught at universities in Hawai`i, California, Minnesota, and elsewhere. And we've reprinted Steve Bradbury's marvelous translations of Ho Chi Minh's prison poems. Please order from Tinfish Press (tinfishpress.com), from SPD, or from your favorite independent bookstore. And expect more from us soon! aloha, Susan M. Schultz, Editgirl ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 23:49:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Craig, Ray" Subject: Tattoo You MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kawaita Hana (Pale Flower) 1963:=20 Kaga Mariko is attracted to his promise, cleave to lamp as a fragment=20 Konchu Dai Senso (Great Insect War) 1968:=20 skin assaulted by insects, scrimmage with female ninjas=20 Nagai Kafu, unshaven, travel sketches in pencil carpenter's back tattooed with demon mask such as streetcar clanks around zoo rented room for skin "April 30, 1959, his body was found, fully clothed" =20 illness conceals salmon from plate insects, persistent skin clients speaking tea obscure dialect Tokyo Monogatari (Tokyo Story) 1953:=20 Hara Setsuko duplicates daughter, permitting herself to film Kuroneko (Black Cat) 1968:=20 Nobuko Otowa returns, determined to cleave, skin disguised as blotched = ducks=20 re tattoo assignment: salmon emerge from skin ** monogatari suffused with cinema, adaptations =20 Nyobo Funshitsu (Wife Lost) 1928:=20 husband infected with dancer, tentative hinges: crushed ginkgo abrupts = skin "prostitute stabbed by a deranged guest" Gendai Ryoki Sei Hanzai (Grostesque Perverted Slaughter) 1976 wife convinces body parts to husband, students arrested for speaking = Japanese Kasuga-cho, Bunkyo-ku: Nagai Kafu explores address =20 re tattoo assignment: after his death, weekly magazines exaggerated his = skin "tattoo mark was found on his arm=20 commemorating an early love, Shimbashi geisha Tomimatsu" ** a pocket then rub pencil rain disrupts rehearsal insert coin, remain accurate tongue dispenses ticket moisture indulges passenger students anxious to speak Shibuya station isn't news anymore clutches luggage, an actress playing Japanese ** Hyokai Hyaku Monogatari (One Hundred Ghost Stories) 1968 defiant weave, woman fucks Umbrella Man table subdues actress Nikkatsu realizes scraping incites cleavage passengers insist accuracy cheap pencils, library skin in 20 minutes Haiku clients speaking tea Tomi dances with penis obscure dialect Hikidoshi Fufu (A Couple on the Move) 1928:=20 Shochiku Kamata Studio: wife flirts with landlord mid-1920s through Shimazu, aftertaste of burnt salmon skin passenger clips train an actress playing Japanese tumbles to subway reverse funeral, release the dead biologist impose vertical surface injuries Ray Craig ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 03:21:49 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter..... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wrap it in ice buddha & branch art's not nice nature's last chance 3:00.....bet the ranch...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:36:17 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: No Need For Apologies, Steve MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The Japanese can take care of themselves, but I question how well you could if you said that word to the wrong people. Even your wife sitting next to you would have to caution you about that. S or Z? Actually, I've seen it spelled in Romaji both ways. It depends on how much buzz in the teeth we Gai koku jin can muster when we think it, write it, or say it. Having said all that--are you still in Japan? If so, it'd be great to connect. I'm near Tokyo, but Nagasaki and surrounds is my favorite place to be and I have a research project that will take me there next academic year. Has your wife heard of Chijiwa in Nagasaki Prefecture? That's my home away from home. It's on the far side of Mount Unzen (also spelled sometimes with an s) and close to Shimabara. No, actually both of the students were somewhat older than the rest, and I definitely got the sense that the lady with the dragon had a stormy past. Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 18:09:49 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Thanks For The Question, Alexander MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Alexander, I'm on digest here, and it appears that someone came up with one reason that Jap could be offensive to Japanese people, but I believe that it has to do with the usage of the word during the great influx of Chinese and Japanese into the U.S. in the latter half of the 19th c. I don't have a dictionary of slang here, but I imagine there's one online someplace and it would probably indicate an origin of around 1890 or so. There was a great backlash against the "Yellow Hoards" that resulted in Congress passing a law (when was it? 1923?) that prohibited all Asians from settling in America. Then of course the word really came into play during WWII and in the years immediately after. All of that real hate and decades of discrimination are associated with that word, and that's the inheritance most of us on this list have been given via the reality of WWII and its reflection on the U.S. side of the river in propaganda. Of course the Japanese have their own offensive word for foreign people--and Steve and his wife from Nagasaki no doubt know this one: Gaijin, which is short for Gaikokujin, or person from an outside or foreign country. Funny, but I've heard mainly white men and women in Tokyo (who usually don't know the language) laughingly refer to themselves in the presence of Japanese folks in this manner, but it really is a slam, with all the negative resonance of the n word, but while Jap is almost universally responded to, Gaijin is not widely known. If you're in the countryside and it's just you among the Japanese and you've lost that certainty that you're connected to the COUNTRY WITH THE MOSTEST in the WORLD, and you hear someone refer to you as Gaijin, after trying your best to do your best, it really hurts. The Chinese also have their word for foreign people and that's Hongbizhi--red nose. Lucas, if you're reading--you're welcome to correct my spelling here! I think the best people to ask, though, are the Japanese and Japanese-American members of this list. Sawako Nakayasu could probably articulate just what it is that makes the word Jap offensive to the Japanese much better than I. She occasionally reads postings on this list so perhaps she could step in and enlighten us all. Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 07:01:54 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: corrected link to MiPoesias manuscript call MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK. Here's the corrected link to my manuscript call: http://www.mipoesias.com/Volume19Issue2/guidelines.html Tom Beckett ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 08:04:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: sad news MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hunter S. Thompson -- RIP FEAR AND LOATHING IN ASPEN it appears <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 08:43:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: BushBrussels MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Bush is in Brussells quoting Camus -- I just can't take it anymore! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 08:54:17 -0500 Reply-To: Ron Silliman Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Silliman's Blog: 6 by 6 Comments: To: WOM-PO@listserv.muohio.edu, BRITISH-POETS@jiscmail.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS Erica Weitzman, Laura Sims, Jon Cone & the new Six by Six Prose poem magazines =E2=80=93 what do they mean? (with an aside on the politics of haiku) Wonk-talk on the web: Geof Huth & Michael Hoerman discuss intuition, daily life, Fibonacci Restless precision: David Gitin's Passing Through Fictive Certainties: A Robert Duncan for the age of theory Exchanges =E2=80=93 Reading Robert Duncan's unpublished 3rd section of the HD Book A season in DSL Hell PhillySound interviews Silliman: of Woundwood, pens & process The train wreck that is the Paris Review What I heard about Iraq: Eliot Weinberger's antiwar masterpiece Writing Creeley when you're not Robert Creeley http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ *********************************** =20 Theorizing presents: Ron Silliman Plotless Prose: Robert Duncan & The H.D. Book Wednesday, February 23 6:00 PM, Kelly Writers House University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:53:53 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Johnny 'Dark O' Negroponte Named 'Supreme Intelligence Overlord' Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Johnny 'Dark O' Negroponte Named 'Supreme Intelligence Overlord': Cannistraro Voted "Go To Liar Of the Century" By National Press Corps BY KNUKIE RUZE They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:09:18 -0500 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: FROM PALOOKAVILLE: A poetry reading micro-series MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Come to the Tazza Caffe for two special poetry reading events hosted by Michael Gizzi. Saturdays, 3pm. March 19: Tim Davis, Robert Fitterman, Brian Kim Stefans April 2: Miles Champion, Jacqueline Waters, Aaron Kunin Yummy poster: http://www.arras.net/fscII/archives/2005/02/from_palookavil.html Who they are: Tim Davis http://www.davistim.com/writing/hairclub.html http://www.cultureport.com/newhp/lingo/authors/davis2.html Robert Fitterman http://bostonreview.net/BR26.5/fitterman.html http://www.ubu.com/ubu/fitterman_window.html Brian Kim Stefans http://www.jacketmagazine.com/04/pellett.html http://bostonreview.net/BR28.3/stefans.html Miles Champion http://www.jacketmagazine.com/26/ra-champion.html http://www.wildhoneypress.com/Audio/Miles_Champion.htm Jacqueline Waters http://www.bostonreview.net/BR27.1/waters.html http://www.speakeasy.org/~subtext/poetry/jwaters/index.html Aaron Kunin http://www.ubu.com/ubu/kunin_mauberley.html http://www.bostonreview.net/BR28.1/sampler.html Hot! Hot! Hot! Please come! Tazze Caffe 250 Westminster St., Providence, RI 02903 http://www.tazzacaffe.com/ "The midgets stand on giants who stand on midgets in Palookaville that day of storm notwithstanding and it still takes one on out to the "farther reaches" where boys play and maids bay at the moon in my Palookaville where the stench of farts drenches outside irony with the dust of snow where all is served up right to blond kids in history books on the gothic outskirts where everything gets unraveled just right where you can see a coincidence coming for miles down the valley..." -- from "From Palookaville," John Ashbery ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:27:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Cute MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cute I lost an 'e'! Please help me find it! No, it isn't that 'e' and it isn't that one (now quite a few words after the other and before this) either. I don't know where it went! It wasn't alone, at least I don't think it was alone. It was in the middle of a word! At the beginning! The ending! The feminine ending (for perhaps it wasn't english at all - the word or the piece it was in - if it was in a piece - I should say 'were' in a piece - there's two more 'e's but it's not them, I'm sure of it)! Or some such - how can one be sure of anything nowadays? In any case, I'm sure you'd recognize it; you could tell perhaps by its indolent expression, suave self-assuredness. Perhaps it's disguised, however, perhaps run away! It's a sign of the times - you can't count on letters any more, at least not belles lettres filled with 'e's - there's a kind of immigration here - where did they come from? For that matter, where are they going? They know something, they're not telling - that's about as far as I can take it! It's definitely well-hidden (not there, with its two 'e's, nor hidden in hidden, although something is?)! Be careful! Please help! Thank you! Little 'e', come home to roam! Little 'e', come home to Rome! = ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 14:57:30 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Re: Thanks So Far For the Responses! In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Alex I think you've answered your own question about why Jap is offensive when you say: On Sat, 19 Feb 2005, alexander saliby wrote: > > And I remember as a youth in 1945, 6, 7, etc, using the word, "Jap" to mean the enemy.. Hopefully you've grown up since then. Steve, I have one Japanese sister in law and have another brother who has been in Japan for 12 years who could very easily marry a Japanese woman. "Japgirl"? Steve, your cultural ignarance is showing. Kevin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 10:33:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Laura Hinton Subject: Re: POETICS Digest In-Reply-To: <200502202127.1d36631KK3NZFpQ0@mx-a065b28.pas.sa.earthlink. net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed InterRUPTions, An Experimental Writers Series, Announces a Reading by Renee Gladman Thursday, March 3, 5:30 p.m. The IRADAC Art Gallery NAC Room 5/202 The City College of New York 137th St. and Convent Avenue New York City* Free and open to the public. Renee Gladman is the author of four books of innovative prose-poetry including Juice (Kelsey St. Press) and The Activist (Krupskaya Press). She lives in New York City. This event is funded in part by Poets & Writers, Inc. through a grant it has received from Poets & Writers, Inc. It is coordinated through the Department of English and the Women's Studies Program for Women's History Month. Additional support may be provided by the CCNY Student Organization "The Poetry Gap." For information on "The Poetry Gap," contact Mimi Allin at mimi@renoun.net. For information on InterRUPTions reading series, contact Laura Hinton at lhinton@ccny.cuny.edu. * DIRECTIONS: In Manhattan, take the 1/9 subway line to the 137th Street (City College) Station. Walk up the hill to Amsterdam Avenue. Enter the NAC (North Academic Complex) Building at the Amsterdam level's south entrance. Tell Security you are attending the poetry reading, and take the escalator up to the 5th Floor. Room 5/202 is at the top of the 5th-floor escalator, the art gallery just inside to the left of the main door. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 10:34:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: BushBrussels In-Reply-To: <200502211343.IAA10494@webmail11.cac.psu.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable As most of us can suspect, Bush is using Camus (!) for even more Stranger forms of cover in Brussells. Scott Ritter just spoke in Washington State to reveal the news that Bush has recently signed off on US plans to attack Ira= n in June. Who knows, yet, if Syria is included? The new Haliburton map of th= e Mid-East is clearly designed to include the full Oil swath from Afghanistan across Iraq, Iran, Syria, etc. It is also the Neocon forecast, apparently, that the peoples in each country will instantly rejoice in liberation and instantly start building self-determining democratic governments. Thomas Friedman is already (again) beginning to write about the revolutionary democratic force of the "Arab Street." Etc. As my 93 year old petroleum engineer Dad - who worked for Chevron for 40 years - shakes his head at the prospect and and says, "It's amazing what they will do for a gas station." One can only imagine what car etc. hungry Russia and China are also shaking their heads - or strategizing - around these prospects as well. And isn't nice that Gonzales and Negroponte - the so-called Torture Twins - are now conveniently in charge of domestic surveillance (in case you were thinking of organizing and participating in the next anti-war protests, etc.) !! Welcome to the Millennium. I say it's getting quite dark down here. Anybody got a light??!! Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > >http://www.ufppc.org/content/view/2295 >> >>NEWS: Scott Ritter says US attack on Iran planned for June >>Written by Mark Jensen >>Saturday, 19 February 2005 >> >>On Friday evening in Olympia, former UNSCOM weapons inspector Scott Ritte= r >>appeared with journalist Dahr Jamail. -- Ritter made two shocking claims: >>George W. Bush has "signed off" on plans to bomb Iran in June 2005, and >>the >>U.S. manipulated the results of the Jan. 30 elections in Iraq.... >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>SCOTT RITTER SAYS U.S. PLANS JUNE ATTACK ON IRAN, OCOOKED=B9 JAN. 30 IRAQI >>ELECTION RESULTS >>By Mark Jensen >> >>United for Peace of Pierce County (WA) >>February 19, 2005 >> >>Scott Ritter, appearing with journalist Dahr Jamail yesterday in >>Washington >>State, dropped two shocking bombshells in a talk delivered to a packed >>house >>in Olympia=B9s Capitol Theater. The ex-Marine turned UNSCOM weapons >>inspector >>said that George W. Bush has "signed off" on plans to bomb Iran in June >>2005, and claimed the U.S. manipulated the results of the recent Jan. 30 >>elections in Iraq. >> >>Olympians like to call the Capitol Theater "historic," but it's doubtful >>whether the eighty-year-old edifice has ever been the scene of more >>portentous revelations. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:58:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Like, a poem, maybe. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 How to writing a poem for Steve Dalachinsky (thanks for the eats and the we= lcome home) How long is your poem?=20 How many lines is it?=20 Is it a sonnet or an elegy or a sestina or something?=20 I don't know what these words=20 mean but I do like to write poetry,=20 even if "it doesn't make any sense to me."=20 At least that's what people tell me. www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 14:42:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Machlin Subject: Machlin/Coultas/Durand Read 2/26 @ Ear Inn Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Saturday, Feb. 26 3:00 P.M. The Ear Inn Reading Series Dan Machlin Brenda Coultas Marcella Durand Ear Inn Bar and Restaurant 326 Spring Street (west of Greenwich Street) All the way near the Hudson FREE Subway: C/E to Spring Street; 1/9 to Canal Street; N/R to Prince Street http://www.mbroder.com/ear_inn/feb05.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:18:22 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: Thanks So Far For the Responses! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kevin, I don't agree that I had answered my own question. Nor do I view this = as a matter of my growing up. It's more a matter of gaping wounds = having healed from the passage of time. =20 Usage of words during the war differs greatly from usage of = today..."Jap" as used during the war and in the years immediately = following always came with a precede: "dirty jap" "lying japs" "lousy = japs" etc. etc. (and let's not forget the equally derogatory term = "nips." And if you remember any of the action comic books of the days = during the war, you might also remember that the soldiers of the emperor = were depicted as ogres with canine fangs and showing heavy dog-like = slobber hanging from their maws. I know I needn't explain the whys of = that practice in the propaganda mechanism to you. And, indeed, = propaganda it was. =20 That description of the enemy of the time lasted a decade beyond the war = at least. However during the Douglas MacArthur years of redevelopment = of the nation, hatred and animosity between the two nations diminished = somewhat. MacArthur not only respected his enemy militarily, he admired = the people and their traditions. (I also suspect he enjoyed playing at = being emperor MacArthur of the South Pacific and Japan, but that's an = entirely different subject.) By the time MacArthur died (mid 60's if memory serves), most of the = mutual hatred between the two nations had disappeared. Japan not only = had been rebuilt it had developed into a major economic force in = electronics and automobile manufacturing. And that success, combined = with the shifting of huge capital investments from American, Canadian & = British corporations into the nation, helped obliterate war memories and = assuage some of the hatred felt by both sides. =20 I have (ooops had, he died a month ago now) a friend, Jim = Lynch...wounded at 19 serving in the South Pacific on a US battleship in = 1944. He lost the top half of his right lung, and had a hug (fist = sized) hole in his rib cage just below the right shoulder joint. Jim = returned home; became a lawyer, and years later was elected Mayor of = Wenatchee, WA. =20 Wenatchee has a sister city in Japan. As part of his mayoral duties, = Jim and wife flew to Japan with the sister city delegates. They had a = grand time, but in one of the official activities, Jim was to be = introduced to one of the city officials...a man of about Jim's age, who = had been in battles in the South Pacific and had been captured by = American and Australian forces. =20 Bottom line of the tale: neither the two former adversaries wanted to = shake hands, and this was some 30 years after the days of combat and = injury(both had been severely wounded). They finally did agree to a = meeting after a translator convinced the Japanese gentleman that the = American was willing. They met, chatted, and began a friendship that = lasted nearly 20 years before the elderly Japanese died. =20 What was interesting to me about the tale is learning that the animosity = was two-sided; I've no idea what propaganda the Japanese used during the = war but I'm certain of one thing, they too had their "dirty yanks" or = what ever they referred to Americans as. =20 Those days are long over for both sides. And our two nations have grown = fond of each other, both politically as well as culturally. And I think = it safe to say most of the anti-Japanese hatred is gone from = America...that is not to say there aren't still some old soldiers = hanging around who harbor hatred. Nor is that to suggest that America = too has its share of ignorant and prejudiced morons within its = boundaries...again, different subject.=20 So, do Americans, born say after 1970, use the word "Jap" in the way it = was used in say 1941-1951? I don't think so. I see no evidence of the = lingering propaganda materials. Further, given what we know of the = penchant of English speaking peoples to seek shortening in words, I = reason, saying Jap, as a shortening of Japanese, is an acceptable = alternative identifier. =20 I don't view the word in the same context as I do, kyke or nigger, mick, = spick, or wop. These ultra-nasty derogatory expressions are not = shortened forms of a root word. They are themselves words lacking any = positive attributes in either denotative nor connotative context. That = is not true of the word, Jap. This is a logical construct that = facilitates communication...it's just easier to say or write Jap, than = it is to say or write Japanese. By the way, a good many Canadians and British citizens as well use the = term Yank as their chosen shortening of American...and the term is = sometimes used in a positive manner, and sometimes used in a very = derogatory manner. The difference of course is both context and tone = (if spoken). And I have been in bars in both London, Ontario and in = London, England where I experienced both a negative and a positive = intention of the speakers.=20 Is it not possible that the word Jap can have both a negative and a = positive meaning determined by the style and tone of the deliverer? And = if not, why not? Or, is it that the word Jap will forever be labeled by = the Japanese as derogatory because of some kind of memetric dynamics? =20 Alex P.S. if you look up the word Jap on "WordWeb" you get the following = definition:"Noun: 1. a person of Japanese descent." And the synonym = given is "Nip." There is no suggestion in that definition to any = derogatory or racist-slur connotations. Of course creators of WordWeb = were probably born after 1980 and have no preconceived War propaganda = hang-ups of any kind.=20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kevin Hehir=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 10:27 AM Subject: Re: Thanks So Far For the Responses! Alex I think you've answered your own question about why Jap is = offensive when you say: On Sat, 19 Feb 2005, alexander saliby wrote: > > And I remember as a youth in 1945, 6, 7, etc, using the word, "Jap" = to mean the enemy.. Hopefully you've grown up since then. Steve, I have one Japanese sister in law and have another brother who = has been in Japan for 12 years who could very easily marry a Japanese = woman. "Japgirl"? Steve, your cultural ignarance is showing. Kevin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:52:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: DN!: The Undiscovered Malcolm X (redux) Comments: cc: soa@yahoogroups.com, HIP HOP to you get your Thank On MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT DEMOCRACY NOW! DAILY EMAIL DIGEST February 21, 2005 = = = = = = = = = TODAY'S DEMOCRACY NOW!: * The Undiscovered Malcolm X: Stunning New Info on the Assassination, His Plans to Unite the Civil Rights and Black Nationalist Movements & the 3 'Missing' Chapters from His Autobiography * On this the 40th anniversary of the assassination of Malcolm X, we spend the hour with historian Manning Marable who has spent a decade working on a new biography of Malcolm X. He is one of the few historians to see the three missing chapters from "The Autobiography of Malcolm X" that he says paint a very different picture than the book with Alex Haley and Spike Lee's film. Marable has also had unprecedented access to Malcolm's family and documents that shed new light on the involvement of the New York Police, the FBI and possibly the CIA in Malcolm X's assassination. Manning today called on the federal government to release all remaining classified documents on Malcolm X. Listen/Watch/Read http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/21/1458213 http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2005/02/38250.php The Undiscovered Malcolm X 40 years ago today on February 21, 1965 Malcolm X was shot dead as he spoke at the Audubon Ballroom in Harlem. He had just taken the stage when shots rang out riddling his body with bullets. Malcolm X was 39 years old. The Undiscovered Malcolm X: Stunning New Info on the Assassination, His Plans to Unite the Civil Rights and Black Nationalist Movements & the 3 'Missing' Chapters from His Autobiography On this the 40th anniversary of the assassination of Malcolm X, we spend the hour with historian Manning Marable who has spent a decade working on a new biography of Malcolm X. He is one of the few historians to see the three missing chapters from "The Autobiography of Malcolm X" that he says paint a very different picture than the book with Alex Haley and Spike Lee's film. Marable has also had unprecedented access to Malcolm's family and documents that shed new light on the involvement of the New York Police, the FBI and possibly the CIA in Malcolm X's assassination. Manning today called on the federal government to release all remaining classified documents on Malcolm X. [includes rush transcript - partial] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 40 years ago today on February 21, 1965 Malcolm X was shot dead as he spoke at the Audubon Ballroom in Harlem. He had just taken the stage when shots rang out riddling his body with bullets. Malcolm X was 39 years old. At his funeral, the actor and civil rights activist Ossie Davis hailed Malcolm as "our Black shining prince." Today commemorations are scheduled across the country. In New York, the Center for Contemporary Black History and the Institute for Research in African-American Studies at Columbia University are sponsoring "Malcolm X: Life After Death -- the Legacy Endures" an educational forum and radio broadcast. The program will be chaired by historian Manning Marable, founding director of the Institute for Research in African-American Studies. The historic Abyssinian Baptist Church is also hosting a national commemoration of Malcolm X with Percy Sutton, Sonia Sanchez, Haki Madhubuti, Dr. James Turner, Gil Noble, Rev. Herbert Daughtry and M-1 of Dead Prez. Later this year, the Audubon Ballroom is scheduled to reopen as the Malcolm X and Dr. Betty Shabazz Memorial and Education Center on May 19 on what would have been Malcolm's 80th birthday. Meanwhile Columbia University professor Manning Marable is working on a major new biography on Malcolm X. Marable has already spent 10 years researching the book which is tentatively titled "Malcolm X: A Life of Reinvention." Today Professor Marable joins us in our Firehouse Studios to discuss the legacy of Malcolm X as well as some of his new findings. Marable has said "Malcolm X was potentially a new type of world leader, personally drawn up from the 'wretched of the earth into a political stratosphere of international power. And telling that remarkable, true story is the purpose of my biography." Marable's research has raised new questions about The Autobiography of Malcolm X which was written with Alex Haley. Marable has also examined un-redacted FBI files which provides new insight into the role of FBI and the New York Police Department in the assassination of Malcolm X We will be joined by Professor Marable in a moment, but first we begin with the words of Malcolm X recorded a month before he was killed. In January 1965 he gave a speech entitled "Prospects for Freedom." * Malcolm X, speaking in January 1965 giving a speech entitled "Prospects for Freedom." Courtesy of the Pacifica Radio Archives. * Manning Marable, one of America's most influential and widely read scholars. He is Professor of History and African-American Studies at Columbia University, and founding Director of the Institute for Research in African-American Studies. He has been working on a new biography of Malcolm X for more then ten years. It will be published by Viking in 2008. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ RUSH TRANSCRIPT This transcript is available free of charge, however donations help us provide closed captioning for the deaf and hard of hearing on our TV broadcast. Thank you for your generous contribution. Donate - $25, $50, $100, more... AMY GOODMAN: We will be joined by Professor Marable in just a moment, but first we begin with Malcolm X himself in words recorded just a months before he was assassinated. It was January 1965, he gave this speech entitled "Prospects for Freedom." MALCOLM X: When this country here was first being founded, there were 13 colonies. The whites were colonized. They were fed up with this taxation without representation. So some of them stood up and said, liberty or death. I went to a white school over here in Mason, Michigan. The white man made the mistake of letting me read his history books. He made the mistake of teaching me that Patrick Henry was a patriot and George Washington – wasn’t nothing non-violent about old Pat or George Washington. Liberty or death was what brought about the freedom of whites in this country from the English. They didn't care about the odds. Why, they faced the wrath of the entire British Empire. And in those days, they used to say that the British Empire was so vast and so powerful, the sun would never set on it. This is how big it was, yet these 13 little scrawny states, tired of taxation without representation, tired of being exploited and oppressed and degraded, told that big British Empire, liberty or death. And here you have 22 million Afro-Americans, black people today, catching more hell than Patrick Henry ever saw. And I'm here to tell you, in case you don't know it, that you got a new - you got a new generation of black people in this country, who don't care anything whatsoever about odds. They don't want to hear you old Uncle Tom handkerchief heads talking about the odds. No. This is a new generation. If they're going to draft these young black men and send them over to Korea or South Vietnam, to face 800 million Chinese. If you are not afraid of those odds, you shouldn't be afraid of these odds. AMY GOODMAN: Malcolm X, a month before he was assassinated. It was January 1965 at a speech he gave in New York, sponsored by the Militant Labor Forum. This is Democracy Now! We're joined by Professor Manning Marable, one of America's most influential and widely read scholars, professor of history and African American Studies at Columbia University, founding director of the Institute for Research in African American studies, again working on a new biography of Malcolm X. Welcome to Democracy Now! MANNING MARABLE: Thank you. It's always great to be here. AMY GOODMAN: It is great to be with you. Why don't you summarize for us – I mean, you have been studying Malcolm X for more than a decade now - what you think are the most explosive findings and then throughout the hour, we will tease them out and talk about them. MANNING MARABLE: I think that Malcolm X was the most remarkable historical figure produced by Black America in the 20th century. That's a heavy statement, but I think that in his 39 short years of life, Malcolm came to symbolize Black urban America, its culture, its politics, its militancy, its outrage against structural racism and at the end of his life, a broad internationalist vision of emancipatory power far better than any other single individual that he shared with DuBois and Paul Robeson, a pan-Africanist internationalist perspective. He shared with Marcus Garvey a commitment to building strong black institutions. He shared with Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., a commitment to peace and the freedom of racialized minorities. He was the first prominent American to attack and to criticize the U.S. role in Southeast Asia, and he came out four-square against the Vietnam War in 1964, long before the vast majority of Americans did. So that Malcolm X represents the cutting edge of a kind of critique of globalization in the 21st century. In fact, Malcolm, if anything, was far ahead of the curve in so many ways. AMY GOODMAN: We're going to break and then when we come back, we are a going to talk about The Autobiography of Malcolm X, the missing chapters, and where they are, which you have got a chance to see excerpts of. MANNING MARABLE: That's right. AMY GOODMAN: We're going to talk about how the autobiography was written, and the F.B.I., their relationship with Alex Haley. We will talk about these things and more in just a minute. http://www.cmgww.com/historic/malcolm/index.htm see also: Remembering Malcolm X in the Place Where He Fell: http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2005/02/38251.php ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:45:17 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Language and politics (was: Thanks So Far For the Responses!) In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Alexander wrote: >>So, do Americans, born say after 1970, use the word "Jap" in the way it was used in say 1941-1951? I don't think so. I see no evidence of the lingering propaganda materials.<< And yet I remember when the Japanese bought Rockefeller Center in NYC--not a few people, some of them in print and on TV, revived in updated terms the old yellow hoard stereotypes, except that instead of overrunning us physically, they were simply going to buy our land out from under us, or at least our most important pieces of real estate, and, so to speak, charge us rent to live in our own homes. I don't remember that Jap as an epithet was resurrected at that time, though it wouldn't surprise me if papers like the Daily News or New York Post used it. You may be right, Alexander, that the feelings of mutual hatred between the US and Japan no longer run as high as they did during the war, but the racial stereotypes and fears that underwrote that hatred--on both sides--are still very much a part of both cultures, just waiting to be tapped into. >>Further, given what we know of the penchant of English speaking peoples to seek shortening in words, I reason, saying Jap, as a shortening of Japanese, is an acceptable alternative identifier.... I don't view the word in the same context as I do, kyke or nigger, mick, spick, or wop.<< Which raises the question of whether you can ever cleanse a word, even partially, of its history. Actually, cleanse is the wrong word. I suppose what I mean is, Can you ever really divorce a word from its history? Look at the radical feminist attempt to reclaim the word cunt, or the way some African-Americans refer to each other as nigger. Each grows out of a subversive politics. The difference here, of course, Alexander is that you are not Japanese, and you are not, as I read you, trying to be subversive. Rather, you seem to me to be trying to depoliticize a word, or at least to suggest it has developed to the point where it can be used apolitically, and I just wonder, given the word you are talking about and its history, if that's really possible. It seems to me that the ultimate test is what Japanese people feel about the word--as in the case of cunt and nigger, the subversive use of each grows out of how women and African-American feel about the word--which is not to say that only Japanese can have opinions about the use(s) of the word, but that the question of whether it is racist and offensive all of the time/some of the time/never should rest finally with Japanese people, the people to whom the word refers. And I would also add that I think the example of Steve and his wife, or of any two intimates of whatever gender and relationship, is ultimately not a proving ground for any theory or politics about a word like Jap. People who are intimate like that cross all kinds of boundaries with each other that they would not let others cross, linguistically and otherwise. Those relationships, precisely because they are intimate and boundary-crossing, are not representative of--though they may still be colored by--the cultural, gendered, racial, national, religious etc. relationships that give rise to words like cunt and Jap and nigger. Rich Newman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:34:59 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: The Paper Needle of Canto The First Slurring Cut's Latest Catch Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Slurring Cut, that old shy light, gouged a bowl in the night where once the spies brimmed over night's spies falling; did they fall asleep? now rabbits bargain footsteps where there was but a weary surveillance of slippery antiques fools they, these 231 antiques, to side with this poem, for when rabbits persist in drawing breath what words then does Slurring Cut follow? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 20:24:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: Tattoo You MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > greenaway's adaptation of the pillow book sucked a great film-maker gone > haywire > > a great book destroyed - used a chines girl to play a japanese girl > > > all wrong - my wife thinks that japgirl tatoo thing may be wrong too > > since basically until very recently > > only yakuza men got tatoos but hey > > i'll show ya mine anytime I'll take you up on that! Cheers, Gerald S. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 14:27:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: The Paper Needle of Canto The First Slurring Cut's Latest Catch Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Harrison I havent been following your poems -each one I mean - but this on for example is fascinating - great use of words etc. Can you comment on its "meaning" or where/or how or whether - it fits into a larger project - if not - disregard it is quite haunting regardless.. Richard Taylor Auckland - New Zealand richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Poet ("Well..." ) / Chess Addict (partly recovered) /Was 15 stone - working on it -/ Grandfather/ BA /NZCE/ General Layabout and Sometime Bookaphile: --------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."---------------------- ASPECT BOOKS www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harrison Jeff" To: Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 3:34 PM Subject: The Paper Needle of Canto The First Slurring Cut's Latest Catch > Slurring Cut, that old shy light, > gouged a bowl in the night > where once > the spies brimmed > over > > > night's spies falling; > did they fall asleep? > > > now rabbits bargain footsteps > where > there was > but > a weary surveillance of slippery antiques > > > fools they, these 231 antiques, > to side with > this poem, for > when rabbits persist in drawing breath > what words then does Slurring Cut follow? > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:23:38 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: New email address Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear friends, family, and inhabitants of my address book, I have changed email addresses. Please update your address books accordingly. My old address (cartograffiti@mindspring.com) will continue to work for a month, but this one (cartograffiti@sbcglobal.net) is the new permanent address. Sorry to do this in such an impersonal way: if you're someone I should have been in touch with and this is the first you've heard from me in a while, I'm sorry and I miss you. If you're someone who is mystified at your inclusion in my address book, I apologize for the intrusion. Finally, if you didn't receive an earlier email from me noting my change of address and phone number, write back and I'll get that to you. I'd rather not append it to a widely-distributed message like this. Best regards, Taylor Brady ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 15:28:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: BushBrussels Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original I don't think China is that car hungry - you Americans assume everyone wants cars etc etc - they (China) are well aware of the stupidity of clogged roads pollution etc - the Chinese are a great nation and a very democratic -perhaps the most in the world despite anti-communist propaganda - the\\china was attacked by the Japs in WW2 and understandably they hate and are wary of the Japanese ( eth US will probably be secretly arming the Japs right now against China) - they're also well armed with IBM'S and will be backing North Korea -don't believe to the contrary - and I support Korea having nukes - see what happens if you don't have them - the US bomb you...and Korea was invaded by the US and the so - called United Nations (who collaborated killing millions of civilians in Korea -where hospitals etc were bombed daily) in an attempt to punch through to China - the prize the US has always coveted... before that the US let Japan take China, and only when the US came under threat (by a rival Imperialist Power - Japan) did it retaliate also when they realised that the Soviet Union was coming down from the North also advancing across Europe - other otherwise the US didn't want to help Britain until that nation was weak - broken - a deliberate and cynical policy - nor did they help the Jews - they used the Jews after the war and now back Israel - another cynical set up -then they entered Europe to head of the Soviet Imperialists (and there is evidence they were very supportive (secretly) of many nazis who found their way to the US) - but China has its own oil resources and will be a big trader in the future especially of countries who will drop the US when it collapses - never has China invaded another country (Tibet's always a part of China) - never rained down massive tonnages of bombs, napalm, nerve installed dictators only to have then overthrown as an excuse for an invasion etc or for purposes of destabilization - on the contrary - China has helped many countries economically - no way will China let itself be attacked by madmen such as Bush and women such as Rice - a token black and a token woman - as Kofee Anan is a token black - he grovels to the US ( if not they would probably assassinate him - but he's gutless ) - etc - they are waiting while the US does its usual stupid bombing and invading and making itself unpopular. If S/11 wasn't organized by the US itself then it may as well have been - it was waiting to happen and it was payback for Vietnam, Cambodia (10 to 20 millions killed in that area?), and Chile and Cuba (Che Guevara), Indonesia, Korea, Panama, Nigeria, Malawi, Yugoslavia, the backing of Israel's mad adventures and wars, interference in Australia's politics, New Zealand's, Europe's, the deliberate disintegration of the USSR, the Marshall Islands, the Bikini Atoll, Diego Garcia, San Salvador, vast loan debts onto Mexico, usage of immigrant labour from South America and other poor nations (that debt loading has impoverished - the US$ has killed as many people throughout the world as US bombs), bombs and more bombs, invasions and more invasions - etc etc etc etc etc etc The Chinese are no fools they are simply waiting for the US to self-destruct. if the US ocntinues on its terrorist path people will lose patience they will welcome the destruction of the US and its allies by whatever means - and if NZ is one - then also the destruction of NZ - but I would urge NZ to distance itself from the US - we can trade elsewhere -we don't need the US Richard Taylor One can only imagine what car etc. hungry Russia and China are also shaking their heads - or strategizing - around these prospects as well. And isn't nice that Gonzales and Negroponte - the so-called Torture Twins - are now conveniently in charge of domestic surveillance (in case you were thinking of organizing and participating in the next anti-war protests, etc.) !! Welcome to the Millennium. I say it's getting quite dark down here. Anybody got a light??!! Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > >http://www.ufppc.org/content/view/2295 >> >>NEWS: Scott Ritter says US attack on Iran planned for June >>Written by Mark Jensen >>Saturday, 19 February 2005 >> >>On Friday evening in Olympia, former UNSCOM weapons inspector Scott Ritter >>appeared with journalist Dahr Jamail. -- Ritter made two shocking claims: >>George W. Bush has "signed off" on plans to bomb Iran in June 2005, and >>the >>U.S. manipulated the results of the Jan. 30 elections in Iraq.... >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>SCOTT RITTER SAYS U.S. PLANS JUNE ATTACK ON IRAN, OCOOKED¹ JAN. 30 IRAQI >>ELECTION RESULTS >>By Mark Jensen >> >>United for Peace of Pierce County (WA) >>February 19, 2005 >> >>Scott Ritter, appearing with journalist Dahr Jamail yesterday in >>Washington >>State, dropped two shocking bombshells in a talk delivered to a packed >>house >>in Olympia¹s Capitol Theater. The ex-Marine turned UNSCOM weapons >>inspector >>said that George W. Bush has "signed off" on plans to bomb Iran in June >>2005, and claimed the U.S. manipulated the results of the recent Jan. 30 >>elections in Iraq. >> >>Olympians like to call the Capitol Theater "historic," but it's doubtful >>whether the eighty-year-old edifice has ever been the scene of more >>portentous revelations. -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 21:30:20 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brenda Coultas Subject: Update and contacts from Brad Will MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, Here is an update and a list of contacts from poet and reporter Brad Will in= =20 Brazil.=20 Brenda Coultas=20 yo this is brad -- this is a desperate situation -- the police continue to bulldoze the area of the encampment covering up any evidence and bodies of the massacre -- the governor of the state promised to give the land to the squatters and now is back tracking but says the dealinefor this decision is in a few days -- it seems like pressure from anyone internationally seems like it is being very effective -- please try to get the federal government of brazil and the united nations involved -- below is a sample letter to send to the contacts beneath -- they murdered innocent people -- 50 still missing -- please help with this immediately, fax is the best solid b -=3D-=3D-=3D- We ask the follow actions be taken in respect to the case of the occupation of Sonho Real, in Parque Oeste Industrial, Goi=E2nia, Brasil: 1. stop the destruction of the homes and land, it is a crime scene where people were killed and must be investigated 2. allow an international investigation into the police action 3. grant the land to the people who lived there and return all material losses suffered The interntional community is watching this situation very closely and there will be grave repercussions if appropirate actions not taken by the authorities responsible. N=F3s pedimos para que sejam tomadas as seguintes provid=EAncias, sobre o ca= so da Ocupa=E7=E3o Sonho Real, no Parque Oeste Industrial, Goi=E2nia, Brasil: 1. parar a destrui=E7=E3o das casas, uma vez que pessoas morreram naquela=20= =E1rea e isso tem que ser apurado 2. permitir uma investiga=E7=E3o internacional sobre a interven=E7=E3o polic= ial 3. garantir aquela terra aos ocupantes e restituir todas as perdas materiais impostas =E0quelas pessoas A comunidade interntional est=E1 prestando aten=E7=E3o a esta situa=E7=E3o m= uito de perto e haver=E1 repercuss=F5es graves sobre este caso se medidas adequadas n=E3o fo= rem tomadas pelas autoridades respons=E1veis. Governo Federal - Secretaria-Geral Luiz In=E1cio Lula da Silva Endere=E7o P=E7a. dos Tr=EAs Poderes, Pal=E1cio do Planalto 4=BA andar - 70.150-900 Bras=EDlia - DF Telefone: (61) 411 1225 E-mail: sg@planalto.gov.br Governador do estado de Goi=E1s Marconi Ferreira Perillo J=FAnior Telefone (62) 213-1456 r. 231 Fax (62) 213-1479 ou 213-1481 E-mail: governador@palacio.go.gov.br Secret=E1rio de Seguran=E7a P=FAblica Jonathas Silva Telefone (62) 265-1000 ou 265-1050 Fax (62) 265-1001 ou 265-1002 E-mail: Isabela@go.gov.br Prefeitura de Goi=E2nia Iris Rezende Machado Telefone: 0800 6460 156. E-mail: 156@goiania.go.gov.br ONU - Brasil (United nations of Brazil) primapagina@primagina.com.br Comit=EA de Direitos Humanos Internacional Mail: Petitions Team Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights United Nations Office at Geneva 1211 Geneva 10, Switzerland Fax: + 41 22 917 9022 (particularly for urgent matters) E-mail: tb-petitions@ohchr.org Comiss=E3o de Direitos Humanos Internacional Mail: Commission/Sub-Commission Team (1503 Procedure) Support Services Branch Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights United Nations Office at Geneva 1211 Geneva 10, Switzerland Fax: + 41 22 917 9011 E-mail: 1503@ohchr.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 15:02:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Thanks So Far For the Responses! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i think we're all a bit guilty of racism my jap comment taken too seriously like scot or jew or nigger these days it seems to be all right depending which homey is using the term anyway guilty as charged guilty guilty guilty ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 23:31:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Language and politics (was: Thanks So Far For the Responses!) In-Reply-To: <0ICA00GUO9VPS4T2@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit { some of them in print and on TV, revived in updated terms the { old yellow hoard stereotypes Repeat after me: y-e-l-l-o-w h-o-r-d-e, h-o-r-d-e, h-o-r-d-e. Hal "Flotsam, please, and a side order of jetsam." Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard blog: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 00:07:23 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Re: Language and politics (was: Thanks So Far For the Responses!) In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >>Repeat after me: y-e-l-l-o-w h-o-r-d-e, h-o-r-d-e, h-o-r-d-e.<< Oops! Thanks, Hal. Cheers-- Richard ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 00:34:59 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: O sweet spontaneous Comments: cc: Mairead Byrne MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mairead-- I like how marade would be bad drink in spanish. As for moi, Nothing gets away from Baratier or also rhymes with ta-ra-ra-boom-di-ay, or the closest of your clusters: breath of day. Since neither of my races are important enough to have holidays devoted to them, and today is the last major holiday preceding it, I am wondering all kinds of St. Patties Day questions. Since the celebration of the day started in the United States is there a reciprocation? When it comes to a seamróg, if you accidentally pick one up that was five sided but only four were left remaining and you could not tell, would it still be effective? Most importantly how early would an average American Irish person make plans for St. Patrick's Day? I mean native dances are planned out usually a year or centuries in advance depending on if done astrologically. Except for one year when I was with the Replacements for a week and planned to touch down for a show in my home city on St. Patrick's Day, I have never had a plan, and that year the plan was useless, none of us had enough gut left to drink. I am well aware of the US customs, wearing green, breaking beer bottles instead of cameras, dying your hair red, wearing kiss me I'm Irish buttons, drinking green beer, drinking Bailey's Irish cream, cream de menthe, drinking Jameson, Bushmills, other Irish whiskey, drinking Rye and then the morning leprechauns. I think I've done it all but I might be missing something by not planning these elements appropriately like we do using the stars. Considering my type of luck on this holiday I also have no idea why the Ides of March precedes it. Does this phenomenon happen because I'm not Irish? Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 00:31:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Machlin Subject: Futurepoem # 5: Michael Ives Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Announcing: THE EXTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE by MICHAEL IVES Futurepoem books series # 5 Paperback, Poetry/Prose, 136 U.S. $14.00 Selected for publication by 2004/2005 Futurepoem editors Edwin Torres, =20= Heather Ramsdell, Kristin Prevallet, & Dan Machlin Buy at SPD (Small Press Distribution Staff Recommended Pick!) http://www.spdbooks.org http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=3D0971680043 Or visit http://www.futurepoem.com/bookpages/external.html For teachers/reviewers: Review and Teaching Evaluation copies are available upon request. =20 Please send a brief explanation to info@futurepoem.com about why you =20 would like a copy along with your snail mail address. We also welcome =20= requests from reading series curators. =93Michael Ives' cunningly quarried prose plinths are stippled with the =20= comedy and cruelty of Marcel Duchamp=92s and Raymond Roussel=92s wildest = =20 inventions.=A0 Move over, machines c=E9libataires=97The External = Combustion =20 Engine has arrived, and it's hummin'! =97John Ashbery "The motoric energy of Michael Ives' inspections is what first caught =20= me: not just the narrative energy but the urgency of breath and its =20 deeper, darker sources. All systems were being used to inspect=97to =20 investigate. He notices and connects. The brilliance of music is around =20= these texts of his, driving rich prose discourse through the narrow =20 gate of song." =97Robert Kelly =93These narratives are intensely, wildly logical, sensual, humorous, =20= transgressive=97catapults into the particulars of an exquisite knowledge = =20 for which you can=92t know you are being prepared. The high-wire =20 pleasures and exhilarations of reading are happily reawakened by this =20= brilliant, surprising book.=94=A0=A0 =97Joan Retallack The prose in Michael Ives' The External Combustion Engine is written to =20= the dimensions of fable, with the compression of a well-crafted dream, =20= fueled by fricative undulations of imagination and effect, enriched =20 with more than the standard degree of vividness in particularly =20 American linguistic superabundance which borders on the grotesque and =20= adores each moment of it. It is pleasure. =97Heather Ramsdell Michael Ives is a writer and musician living in the Hudson Valley. His =20= work with the language/performance trio, F=92loom, was featured on =20 National Public Radio, on the CBC, and in the anthology of =20 international sound poetry, Homo Sonorus. His poetry and prose has =20 appeared in such magazines as Conjunctions, Denver Quarterly, Exquisite =20= Corpse, New American Writing, and Sulfur, and can be found online at =20 http://www.3rdbed.com, and =20 http://www.octopusmagazine.com/issue04/html/features/poets/=20 michael_ives.htm. He teaches at Bard College. For more information on Futurepoem please go to =20 http://www.futurepoem.com.=20= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 00:34:15 -0500 Reply-To: tyrone williams Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: New email address Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Taylor, I'd like to send you a recent chapbook but I don't have a current address for you. Hope all is well with you and Tanya. Tyrone -----Original Message----- From: Taylor Brady Sent: Feb 21, 2005 8:23 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: New email address Dear friends, family, and inhabitants of my address book, I have changed email addresses. Please update your address books accordingly. My old address (cartograffiti@mindspring.com) will continue to work for a month, but this one (cartograffiti@sbcglobal.net) is the new permanent address. Sorry to do this in such an impersonal way: if you're someone I should have been in touch with and this is the first you've heard from me in a while, I'm sorry and I miss you. If you're someone who is mystified at your inclusion in my address book, I apologize for the intrusion. Finally, if you didn't receive an earlier email from me noting my change of address and phone number, write back and I'll get that to you. I'd rather not append it to a widely-distributed message like this. Best regards, Taylor Brady ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 00:47:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: O sweet spontaneous Comments: To: editor@pavementsaw.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Yes Daithi if you pick up a 5-leaved shamrock with only 4 leaves remaining = you would know by the "wasp" that the fifth leaf had been there but was = now gone. The "wasp" is the outline of the leaf, a sort of very thin = silver edge just barely visible if you hold the shamrock by the stem up = against a dark background like a trouser leg. It would be very effective, = as the 5-leafed shamrock is very rare; I have only seen a few myself, all = of them 'wasps.' Still very potent however (you could get a bad cut from = one). Sadly I am not an expert on St. Patrick's Day and have mixed, not to say = negative, feelings about it. It always rained on St. Patrick's Day when I = was a child. Then, when I grew up a bit, I developed a distaste for = nationalism. I now subscribe to the belief that anyone can be godddamn = Irish if they goddamn want (though why would they indeed). =20 You know David I think I saw you that week you were with The Replacements. = That was stunning. Have you ever written about that? All those guys = with their shadowy ghost limbs. Just like the 5th leaf 'wasps' in fact. = Waving like seaweed fronds in the incoming rushing surf. It was very = moving. You ask many hard questions, my dear David. Profound and deep questions = I feel I may not be the best person to take in hand and knead. I'm sure = there is a summer school for such as you where you can wander around like = a great dandelion clock blowing fluff from your head. The fares are great = right now if you book. You could bring The Replacements. Maybe we could = meet up round Roundstone round July. Bad Drink >>> David Baratier 02/22/05 12:34 AM >>> Mairead-- I like how marade would be bad drink in spanish. As for moi, Nothing gets away from Baratier or also rhymes with ta-ra-ra-boom-di-ay, or the closest of your clusters: breath of day. Since neither of my races are important enough to have holidays devoted to them, and today is the last major holiday preceding it, I am wondering all kinds of St. Patties Day questions. Since the celebration of the day started in the United States is there a reciprocation? When it comes to a seamr=F3g, if you accidentally pick one up that was five sided but only four were left remaining and you could not tell, would it still be effective? Most importantly how early would an average American Irish person make plans for St. Patrick's Day? I mean native dances are planned out usually a year or centuries in advance depending on if done astrologically. Except for one year when I was with the Replacements for a week and planned to touch down for a show in my home city on St. Patrick's Day, I have never had a plan, and that year the plan was useless, none of us had enough gut left to drink. I am well aware of the US customs, wearing green, breaking beer bottles instead of cameras, dying your hair red, wearing kiss me I'm Irish buttons, drinking green beer, drinking Bailey's Irish cream, cream de menthe, drinking Jameson, Bushmills, other Irish whiskey, drinking Rye and then the morning leprechauns. I think I've done it all but I might be missing something by not planning these elements appropriately like we do using the stars. Considering my type of luck on this holiday I also have no idea why the Ides of March precedes it. Does this phenomenon happen because I'm not Irish? Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 01:13:13 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: BushBrussels MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 02/21/05 9:28:37 PM, richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ writes: > don't think China is that car hungry - you Americans assume everyone wants > cars etc etc - they (China) are well aware of the stupidity of clogged roads > pollution etc - > Richard, I was in China last December -in Hongkong- and before that about ten years ago in several cities. One of the most memorable things about the place to me is the pollution. I remember when I first set foot at Shanghai airport in my earlier viosit. I thought I was in a chemical factory. Have things changed? Murat ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 03:59:37 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit that thing 'tween my legs rises before i do a kind of gun bang bang... 4:00....mai moi...drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 04:22:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Like, a poem, maybe. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit are doors considered furniture? - for christophe casamassima (cecil taylor big band @ the iridium 2/20/05) set1. it is the story of the one that got away it is about catching & catching up how you hear things thhhh r u r ear that you haven't heard the one that got away ( un/herd ) ( i liked it - but i liked the one i missed better ) how the one who caught the big one goes out every day trying to catch another how the one that got away from the one who almost caught it must be caught so that the one that didn't catch it goes out every day trying to catch it or like you know the story of...... the it must get caught one way or the other even if only in a story the placement of the chair the acknowledgement that the chair exists outside of you for reasons other than sitting it is in the nature of things is it not? i cannot relax i expect to hear what someone else has told me i missed last night choices are like fish in the sea or fish in a tank or fish on ice or fish on the counter waiting to get their heads chopped off waiting to be gutted & scaled mountains weighed fish in tanks fish tanks in restaurants in homes domestic fish or............................ i feel there is a part missing as the action unfolds is it me or the action? if i anticipate some action within the action because i have been told that the last time this action occurred it contained another action that tonight might be missing that it contained actions beyond the action itself components within the fundamental components that are always there but just may not show themselves tonight which make the action even greater more expansive than it usually is- is it my expectation of these components that keeps me tonight from hearing them my obsession with the actions that i missed the night before or am i really hearing the action seeing the action with those components it contained/contains that were displayed last night when i was not there to hear or see them exercised or exorcised, missing tonight? it is about the one that got away amassing the point or am i missing the point? eye as action i as a(u)ct ion the i that is passive action that is moving beyond myself its self how big was it really? if more than one person saw/heard than it must be so the one that remains has it really been diminished because i long to see/hear the one i missed ? when i was not present? the one that got away i diminish my capacity to listen as my expectations grow or is there really something missing? rendered? render unto that which is rendered unto i can only conclude that last night i should have been where i wasn't & that i wasn't where i should have been but life should be what you make it & not what others make it for you .......yet "i am no longer i, nor is................" set 2 (sonnet) within a tail twice told a tale alas not pulled it is the energies of this big sun inside a brilliant construction an orbular crescending omni-versed poe(s)tic hence you are this always burning light this definitely moved i definitely moved one last sentence one more ta(i)le to tell. steve dalachinsky nyc ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 02:31:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: call for manuscripts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit that's insufficient can't click there ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 20:28:53 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Caught it and Thanks, Hal! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'll add my voice to your chant and use the spell checker I now have on this machine. Jess ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 08:10:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Shankar, Ravi (English)" Subject: DRUNKEN BOAT announces Special Double Issue #7 - Aphasia and the Arts, William Meredith, and First Annual Panliterary Awards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Drunken Boat , international online journal = for the arts, announces a special double issue on Aphasia and the Arts = and William Meredith!=20 With PHOTOS from Sol Lewitt, Ellen Driscoll, Elisabeth Subrin, Brian = Berman and Cecilia Schmidt With POETRY from Paul Amlehn, Sally Ball, Dan Beachy-Quick, Elizabeth = Block, Iain Britton, Julie Buchsbaum, Christophe Casamassima, Vernon = Frazer, Piotr Gwiazda, Richard Harteis, Gwyneth Lewis, Nancy Kuhl, Kate = Light, Evelyn Posamentier, Alexis Quinlan, Ken Rumble, Charles Rafferty, = Mary Ann Samyn, Jesse Schweppe, Chris Semansky, Vijay Seshadri, Ron = Silliman, Laurel Snyder, Tony Tost, Dan Waber & Dave Grey, Susan = Wheeler, Gautam Verma =20 With SOUND from Ros Bandt, Joseph Chaikin, Jan Curtis, Merlin Coleman, = Stefano Giannotti, Abinadi Meza, Patrick Simons, and Stephen Vitello With PROSE from Ann Barnes, Gayle Brandeis, Kate Hill Cantrill, Marc = Froment-Meurice, Tom Hazuka, Jerome Kaplan, Naomi Leimsider, Cris Mazza, = Elinore Mazza, Christina McPhee, John Phillips, Leland Pitts-Gonzalez, = Arthur Saltzman, Gregory Spatz, and Frederick Zackel With WEB ART from Peter Horvath, Deena Larson, Jhave Johnston, Michael = Knaven, Prema Murthy, Mendi & Keith Obadike, Antoine Schmitt and Tamar = Schori With TRANSLATIONS of Salvatore Quasimodo by Wayne Chambliss, Thanh Thao = by Linh Dinh, Turkish Sufi poets by Jennifer Ferraro and Latif Bolat, = Paul Val=E9ry by Christopher Mulrooney, and Jean Michel Espitallier, = Jacques Roubaud, Jacques Jouet and Anita Konkka by Jean-Jacques Poucel=20 With VIDEO from Angela Alston & Ezekiel Das, Nicolas Barri=E9, Cesar = Pesquera, Catherine Ross, Alan Sondheim, and Larry Weinstein FEATURING a special folio on APHASIA and THE ARTS and a retrospective on = WILLIAM MEREDITH including video, photos, etchings and never-before seen = letters and rare manuscripts and ANNOUNCING Drunken Boat's FIRST ANNUAL PANLITERARY AWARDS - details = on website!=20 =20 ***************=20 Ravi Shankar=20 Poet-in-Residence=20 Assistant Professor=20 CCSU - English Dept.=20 860-832-2766=20 shankarr@ccsu.edu=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:48:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Red Poet in Blue State --Nebraska? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nebraska is incredibly silent.=20 Michael ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 08:32:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Red Poet in Blue State --Nebraska? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you've even driven across it, you'll know why. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Rothenberg" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 7:48 AM Subject: Red Poet in Blue State --Nebraska? > Nebraska is incredibly silent. > > Michael > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 11:36:56 -0500 Reply-To: Mike Kelleher Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Kelleher Organization: Just Buffalo Literary Center Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 2-22-05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WORKSHOPS THIS WEEK ONLY! LET'S BE QUICK ABOUT THIS: AN INTRO TO SHORT SHORT FICTION, with Forrest Roth Saturday, February 26, 12-4 p.m. $50, $40 Members Think of the shortest story you have ever written; then imagine cutting its length in half. This is what it takes to start creating a streamlined short story, usually referred to as a "short short." But is a short short simply determined by the number of words used? Is it an abbreviated character study? Does it even have plot development to speak of? To answer these questions, we will look at contemporary American writers excelling in very short stories, such as Diane Williams and Gary Lutz, as well as Modernists who experimented with the form. We will also attempt our own short shorts and brave the intriguing hazzards of paring fiction down to 100 words (or less!). Forrest Roth is a graduate of the MFA Creative Writing program at Goddard College. He currently teaches creative writing at Medaille College and has stories forthcoming in NOON. Continuing: You can still sign up for this workshop at a pro-rated cost for the next 7 weeks! PLAYWRITING BASICS, with Kurt SchneIderman 8 Tuesdays, February 15- April 5, 7-9 p.m. $250, $200 for members Playwright Basics is a weekly workshop open to novice and experienced playwrights alike. The purpose of the course is to allow participants to develop playwriting abilities through actual writing and in-class feed back. Structured as a workshop, the format will allow all participants to produce and bring in their own work to be read aloud and critiqued by everyone involved. In addition there will be readinga of various classic theatre texts and discussion of playwriting structure and theory. Participants can expect to emerge from this course with some written and workshopped dialogue, and with an introduction to the overall theoretical framework of dramatic writing. Kurt Schneiderman is currently the Dramaturg for the Buffalo Ensemble Theatre, the Co ordinator of the annual new play competition the Area Playwrights' Performance Series, and the Director of the monthly new play forum Play Readings & Stuff. Named one of "Buffalo's emerging young playwrights" by Gusto Magazine and Buffalo's "next A.R. Gurney" by Artvoice Magazine, Kurt was the winner of the Helen Mintz Award for Best New Play (2003) and was nominated for the Artie Award for Outstanding New Play (2004). Most recently, one of Kurt's plays was chosen for the 2004 Toronto Fringe Festival. Also know for his work as dramatic critic, Kurt has written theatrical reviews for Outcome, Buffalo Beat, Blue Dog, Traffic East, and Nightlife Magazines. Currently he is a staff writer for the Buffalo Jewish Review. TUESDAYS WITH MORRIE Look for Just Buffalo's table tonight from 6 - 7 p.m. at Studio Arena Theater before this evenings performance of "Tuesdays With Morrie." We'll be handing out information on the TRIMANIA fundraiser, IF ALL OF BUFFALO READ THE SAME BOOK, and The Harlem Book Fair. The play, which runs through March 6, is a stage adaptation of the best selling book and features long-time Just Buffalo member Emanuel Fried as Morrie. Tickets are still available for $24-$52 by calling 856-5650. IN THE HIBISCUS ROOM Second Annual Erotica Open Reading Friday, March 4, 7:30 p.m. $4, $3 student, $2 members Spread a sheet. Whip out a pen. Lay down some erotica. Just Buffalo's annual Erotic Open Reading, hosted by Madame Karen Lewis, is back. Get the juices flowing! Push boundaries! Sexperiment! Open to all who desire (and write about it). Readings limited to 5 minutes per person. TRIMANIA 2005 The Buffalo's biggest party is back - March 19, 2005. Visit http://www.justbuffalo.org/events/special_events.shtml For details, or call 832-5400. 2ND ANNUAL BOOMDAYS POETRY CONTEST BOOMDAYS is a celebration of the advent of Spring, commencing each year with the lifting of the Lake Erie-Niagara River Ice Boom. It will be held on Friday, April 1 at The Pier from 4:00 PM to midnight. Contest: Write a poem about the beginning of spring. All forms of poetry are acceptable. First Prize- $200.00 Second Prize- $150.00 Third Prize- $100.00 Winning poems will be published in Artvoice and winners will be introduced by poet Janine Pomy Vega at the event. Winners must be able to read their work at the BOOMDAYS kickoff event, April 1 at The Pier from 4:00 PM to midnight. Guidelines: All ages welcome to apply. Poems should be typed and should not exceed a single page in length. Each entrant may submit only one poem. Please include name, address, and telephone number with entry. Deadline for submission is March 15, 2004. Send entries to: BOOMDAYS Poetry Contest Just Buffalo Literary Center 2495 Main Street, Suite 512 Buffalo, New York 14214 IF ALL OF BUFFALO READ THE SAME BOOK This year's title, The Invention of Solitude, by Paul Auster, is available at area bookstores. All books purchased at Talking Leaves Books will benefit Just Buffalo. Paul Auster will visit Buffalo October 5-6. A reader' s discussion guide is available on the Just Buffalo website. Presented in conjunction with Hodgson Russ LLP, WBFO 88.7 FM and Talking Leaves Books. For sponsorship opportunities (and there are many), please contact Laurie Torrell or Mike Kelleher at 832-5400. COMMUNITY LITERARY EVENTS TALKING LEAVES BOOKS Mark Ashwill Booksigning: Vietnam Today: A Guide to a Nation at a Crossroads Thursday, February 24, 7 p.m. Talking Leaves, Main St. Free and open to the public Vietnam Today is the first in-depth look at Vietnam and Vietnamese culture in the twenty-first century. By examining everything from the history to core cultural dimensions to how the Vietnamese see Westerners, Mr. Ashwill and his co-author Thai Ngoc Diep have written the comprehensive guide to Vietnam as it becomes more open to the world and an integral part of the international economy. The book examines the most prominent characteristics of the Vietnamese: their energy and determination, the importance of the group over the needs of the individual and the urgency of maintaining harmony. Ashwill and Thai have created a practical and relevant guide to Vietnamese culture. SALON CONVERSATIONS SERIES Aesthetics and Ethics Conference Saturday, February 26th, 7 p.m. Rust Belt Books Featuring talks by Ewa Ziarek, Thomas Loebel, and Krzysztof Ziarek (SUNY) UNSUBSCRIBE If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will be immediately removed. _______________________________ Mike Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center 2495 Main St., Ste. 512 Buffalo, NY 14214 716.832.5400 716.832.5710 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk@justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 11:43:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "St. Thomasino" Subject: ERATIO SMEARED Chapter Three: Where's the Rope? Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed . ERATIO SMEARED Chapter Three . WHERE=92S THE ROPE?=A0 In his infinite wisdom (or is it, =93wiz-=94 dom), Michael Neff, = founder,=20 chief artist, and executive director of the Web del Sol Association,=20 has seen fit to elaborate upon Tim McGrath=92s =93review=94 (which we = all=20 agree was worthless, anyway):=A0 =93And yet, the publication has its defenders, like the famous=20 cut-and-paste "poet" out of San Francisco, Jack Foley, who is published=20= in Eratio PP and fancies himself good buddies with the editor, St.=20 Thomasino. Since the first publication of this review, both of them=20 have used email harassment, flaming, and defamatory blog posts with=20 invented language in an attempt to censor PDS and brand the editors. In=20= addition, one of them wrote an editor's faculty advisory in an attempt=20= to get him booted from his college writing program. Be that as it may,=20= PDS will not be censored, no matter how many cretins arise to inflict=20 retaliation.=94=A0 But wait, there's more -- and it ain't pretty! It's on the blog. The eratio blog-auxiliary: http://eratio.blogspot.com/ WARNING: IT AIN'T PRETTY! . Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com . 9 =A0 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 09:11:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: "Danger on Peaks" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm curious as to what people on this list think of Gary Snyder's new = book, "Danger on Peaks." Snyder get so little real critique, only mainly = laudatory commentary. It's as if reviewers, and academics, are afraid of = him, and this doesn't do anyone any good. Years ago, Snyder had a major = impact on my work and the direction of my life, so now, a book written = in his 70s, I'd like to read some thoughtful critique. Thanks, Joel ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:33:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: "Danger on Peaks" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 >Snyder get so little real critique, only mainly laudatory commentary. It's= as if reviewers, and=20 > academics, are afraid of him, and this doesn't do anyone any good. Years = ago, Snyder had a major=20 > impact on my work and the direction of my life Joel, your critique says it all. I'd like to hear some of your critique - I= mean, since it impacted you so much, perhaps your critique is most importa= nt, to yourself firstly, and secondly to the world in general. As a publish= er I know I have to make my own rules sometimes. Isn't that the point of be= ing a human first and a writer second? Also, who needs a critique when you have readers? The book club may be the = best design for any critique, because it introduces the action of the book = i.e. reading. Critics are out to praise writers or discourage readers - the= re's no sense in holding the critic's hand as you read, but to formulate an= effort, a reading, and not an opinion. Hope this is enlightening for you, because it sure is to me! Christophe Casamassima --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 13:45:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Leland Winks Subject: Re: BushBrussels MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh Richard, Richard, do for once try thinking before you type. To wit, the Chinese are a great nation and a very > democratic -perhaps the most in the world despite anti-communist > propaganda - I suppose it's anti-communist propaganda that there was a Tienanmen Square massacre more than fifteen years ago perpetrated against people calling for China to be the "democratic" nation you claim it to be. There are hundreds of rural revolts -- strikes, protests, etc. -- going on right now in China. I guess the grievances are fed by anti- communist propaganda rather than poverty and the oppressive policies of local Communist Party officials, right? the\\china was attacked by the Japs in WW2 Japs! Such a lovely little epithet, and one that's been subjected to some discussion lately on the list. Did you notice, Richard? never has China invaded another country (Tibet's > always a part > of China) The Tibetans might have another idea about that, but I suppose they don't matter much to you. I'm looking forward to hearing you write "Chechnya always a part of Russia." Oh yes, and wasn't there a war between China and Vietnam about 25-30 years ago, and hasn't Vietnam always had historical grounds to fear China's hegemonism? never rained down massive tonnages of bombs, napalm, nerve > installed dictators only to have then overthrown as an excuse for an > invasion etc or for purposes of destabilization - on the contrary > - China > has helped many countries economically Well, China also supported Jonas Savimbi's brutal war in Angola, sent arms to crush a (Maoist!) insurrection in Sri Lanka in the early 1970s, supported Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge, and stood idly by when thousands of its partisans were massacred in Indonesia in 1965. Not to speak of the millions of dead as a result of demented policies like the "Great Leap Forward" and palace coups run amok like the "Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution," which as a few heretics noted at the time, was neither proletarian, nor cultural, nor a revolution. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 13:49:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Please Read Poems to me Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Am You If, in the history of every child, language is first of all a mode of eroti= c expression and then later succumbs to the domination of the reality-princ= iple, it follows, or perhaps we should say mirrors, the path taken by the h= uman psyche and must share the ultimate fate of the human psyche, namely ne= urosis... To regard human speech, the self-evident sign of our superiority = over animals, as a disease, or at least as essentially diseased, is for com= mon sense ... a monstrous hypothesis. Yet psychoanalysis, which insists on= the necessary connection between cultural achievement and neurosis and bet= ween social organization and neurosis, and which therefore defines man as t= he neurotic animal, can hardly take any other position. ... if psychoanalys= is is carried to the logical conclusion that language is neurotic, it can = join hands with the twentieth century school of linguistic analysis -- a d= epth analysis of language -- inspired by that man with a real genius for t= he psychopathology of language, Wittgenstein. He said, "Philosophy is a b= attle against the bewitchment [Verhexung] of our intelligence by means of l= anguage."Some of these linguistic analysts have had the project of getting = rid of the disease in language by reducing language to purely operational t= erms. From the psychoanalytic point of view, a purely operational language= would be a language without a libidinal (erotic) component; and psychoanal= ysis would suggest that such a project is impossible because language, like= man, has an erotic base, and also useless because man cannot be persuaded = to operate (work) for operation's sake. Wittgenstein, if I understand him = correctly, has a position much closer to that of psychoanalysis; he limits = the task of philosophy to that of recognizing the inevitable insanity of la= nguage. "My aim is," he says, "to teach you to pass from a piece of disgui= sed nonsense to something that is patent nonsense." "He who understands me= finally recognizes [my propositions] as senseless." Psychoanalysis begins= where Wittgenstein ends. The problem is not the disease of language, but = the disease called man. =97Norman O. Brown, Life against Death I can see.=20 I can see.=20 He can say=20 I see all I want=20 just as three=20 or four need=20 an object p.s. I am having the time of your life =20 --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:05:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: POG, Saturday Feb 26 7pm Ortspace: poets Geoff Young & Todd Baron Comments: To: Tenney Nathanson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable POG presents poets Todd Baron & Geoff Young Saturday, February 26, 7pm, ORTSPACE 121 E. 7th Street (use entry on east side of building, at alley door) Admission: $5; Students $3 =20 Todd Baron is the author of Outside (avenue B Books), Tell (Texture = Press), This. . . Seasonal Journal (Paradigm Press), Return Of The World (O = Books), Partials (e.g. press), Dark As A Hat (Abacus, Poets and Poets), That = Looks At One And Speaks (Factory School) and tv eye (Chax) . In 1982 he = co-founded Issue magazine, and in 1990 ReMap. He also helped found Littoral Books. = His work has appeared in various journals including Hambone, Sulphur, Apex = of the M, Temblor, Acts, New American Writing, Mandorla, The Washington = Review, RiBot and The Gertrude Stein Awards for Innovative Writing (1999).=20 Geoff Young is the author of Solid Object, In XX Arrondissements, Mixed Doubles, Relativite du Printemps, Subject to Fits, Rocks and Deals, = Cerulean Embankments, and Lights Out, and, with William Corbett, editor of a collection of essays in honor of James Schuyler, That Various Field. He = is the founding editor of the extraordinary poetry press The Figures. & coming up (please check back to confirm dates) . . .=20 =20 March 12: poets Sherwin Bitsui & John Wright April 2: poet Charles Bernstein April 30: poet/critic David Levi Strauss & poet Jason Zuzga May 7: poets Austin Publicover & Dlyn Fairfax Parra for more information: www.gopog.org; mailto:pog@gopog.org; 520-615-7803 * =20 POG events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council, the Arizona Commission on the Arts, and the National Endowment = for the Arts. POG also benefits from the continuing support of The = University of Arizona Poetry Center, the Arizona Quarterly, Chax Press, and The = University of Arizona Department of English. =20 thanks to our growing list of 2004-2005 Patrons and Sponsors:=20 =20 . Corporate Patrons Buffalo Exchange and GlobalEye Systems . Individual Patrons Millie Chapin, Elizabeth Landry, Allison Moore, Liisa Phillips, Jessica Thompson, and Rachel Traywick . Corporate Sponsors Antennae a Journal of Experimental Poetry and Music/Performance, Bookman's, Chax Press, Jamba Juice, Kaplan Test Prep = and Admissions, Kore Press, Macy's, Reader's Oasis, and Zia Records . Individual Sponsors Gail Browne, Suzanne Clores, Sheila Murphy, and Desiree Rios =20 We're also grateful to hosts and programming partners . Casa Libre en La Solana Inn & Guest House . Dinnerware Contemporary Arts gallery . Las Artes Center (see stories in El Independiente and the Tucson Weekly) . O-T-O Dance at ORTSPACE . MOCA (Museum of Contemporary Art) . Alamo Gallery (see this Tucson Arts District page) =20 please visit us at www.gopog.org for links to the websites of our = progamming partners; &=20 =20 for further information contact=20 POG: 615-7803, mailto:pog@gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 14:11:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Leland Winks Subject: Fwd: CBC Arts - WRITER GUILLERMO CABRERA INFANTE DIES MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--753232b4c731770" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----753232b4c731770 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: Received: from mx1.nyu.edu (MX1.NYU.EDU [128.122.109.21]) by mail.nyu.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.01 (built Aug 26 2004)) with ESMTP id <0ICB00AV1T1GVN@mail.nyu.edu> for cqw6841@mail.nyu.edu; Tue, 22 Feb 2005 13:36:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from nyu.edu (F2.HOME.NYU.EDU [128.122.108.92]) by mx1.nyu.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j1MIapcp007990 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2005 13:36:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from [171.64.35.22] by mail.nyu.edu (mshttpd); Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:36:51 -0800 Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:36:51 -0800 From: Peter James Hudson Subject: Fwd: CBC Arts - WRITER GUILLERMO CABRERA INFANTE DIES To: Christopher Leland Winks Message-id: <1cd9bb01cd7402.1cd74021cd9bb0@nyu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 2.01 (built Aug 26 2004) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary=--67906c642ce339db Content-language: en X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal Original-recipient: rfc822;cqw6841@mail.nyu.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----67906c642ce339db Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Return-path: Received: from mx5.nyu.edu (MX5.NYU.EDU [128.122.109.25]) by mail.nyu.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.01 (built Aug 26 2004)) with ESMTP id <0ICB00NLBSX721@mail.nyu.edu> for pjh229@mail.nyu.edu; Tue, 22 Feb 2005 13:34:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail01.nm.cbc.ca (mail01.nm.cbc.ca [159.33.1.171]) by mx5.nyu.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j1MIYIwT007905 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2005 13:34:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from nmweb08.nm.cbc.ca (nmweb08.nm.cbc.ca [192.168.1.160]) by mail01.nm.cbc.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5288A13C457 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2005 13:34:18 -0500 (EST) Received: by nmweb08.nm.cbc.ca (Postfix, from userid 10) id 4164C69AE5; Tue, 22 Feb 2005 13:34:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 18:34:18 +0000 (UT) From: CBC Arts Subject: CBC Arts - WRITER GUILLERMO CABRERA INFANTE DIES To: pjh229@nyu.edu Message-id: <20050222183418.4164C69AE5@nmweb08.nm.cbc.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME::Lite 3.01 (F2.6; A1.60) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: binary Content-disposition: inline Original-recipient: rfc822;pjh229@mail.nyu.edu This email has been sent to you by pjh229@nyu.edu The following is a news item posted on CBC ARTS at http://www.cbc.ca/arts ____________________________________________________ WRITER GUILLERMO CABRERA INFANTE DIES WebPosted Tue Feb 22 09:02:17 2005 LONDON---Cuban-born novelist Guillermo Cabrera Infante, the acclaimed Spanish-language writer and critic of the Castro government, has died at the age of 75. Cabrera Infante died in hospital Monday of a blood infection and had suffered a series of illnesses over the past few years, according to a spokesperson for his Spanish literary agent, the Balcells agency in Barcelona. Celebrated for an experimental use of language in his writing, Cabrera Infante worked as a literary and film critic, translator, essayist and novelist. In 1997, he won the Miguel de Cervantes prize for literature, the Spanish-speaking world's most prestigious literary prize. His best-known work is the 1967 novel Three Trapped Tigers , the success of which surprised the author since half of it is written in Cuban slang. The novel captured the lush, boozy, exciting pre-Revolutionary nightlife of Havana in the 1950s and has become a classic of Cuban literature. Other works include the novel Infante's Inferno , the political writing collection Mea Cuba and A 20th Century Job , a collection of his film criticism. In addition to novels and essays, Cabrera Infante also wrote screenplays, including John Huston's film adaptation of Malcolm Lowry's Under the Volcano . Born in Gibara, eastern Cuba, in 1929, the writer studied journalism and became one of Latin America's most acclaimed film critics. He was also a founding member of Revolucion magazine and an early supporter of Fidel Castro, serving as a government liaison to Brussels in the early 1960s. However, by 1965, he became disillusioned with the totalitarian direction of the government and became a harsh critic of the Castro regime. He eventually left his home country and in 1966 settled in London, where he took British citizenship. "I have not been back [to Cuba] since I left in 1965 and I will not until Fidel Castro leaves power," he said in a 1997 interview. Copyright (C) 2005 CBC. All rights reserved. ----67906c642ce339db-- ----753232b4c731770-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 14:51:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: from the "Is that so?" desk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed today's NY TIMES Obit of Hunter Thompson reports that "he was found by his son, Juan, who survives him . . . " If ever something seemed to go without saying . . . <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "and now it's winter in America" --Gil Scott-Heron Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 [office] (814) 863-7285 [Fax] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:07:10 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: More Bang for Your Oscar Buck! This weekend from UES and TYPO via NYC ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Please come! A bona fide Unpleasant Event Schedule reading this Saturday! Saturday, February 26, 2:30pm An Unpleasant Event Schedule reading. As part of the Frequency Reading Series, three UES contributors will read their work: Leonard Gontarek (from Philadelphia), Amy King (from Williamsburg, Brooklyn), and Tracey Knapp (from Boston). Location: Four-Faced Liar 165 West 4th Street New York, NY 212-366-0608 http://www.shannacompton.com/frequency.html http://unpleasanteventschedule.com/ AND on Sunday from TYPO Magazine: Dear friends, readers, writers, and all who yearn for the burning chair, We offer the second installment of the Burning Chair Readings, featuring Sabrina Orah Mark and Marie Mutsuki Mockett, set for Sunday, February 27th, sharply at 8PM. Due to renovations at the Cloister Café, the gathering will take place two doors down at **Solas, 232 East 9th Street, between 2nd and 3rd Avenues.** Sabrina and Marie write, each in her own way, outside of the usual literary frameworks. Each writes innovatively, accessibly, and beyond prescribed conventions. Sabrina’s poems figure their way through the dark contraptions of the world. It’s her voice versus the inventions of the monsters—time, space, and the terrible endeavors of humanity. Marie’s fiction winds through the despairing and laughing shapes of the world, observing and calculating toward a discovery that remains unrealized beyond those forms. Each has found an ageless voice and will lead us, as audience, into the unlit stretches. Please, join us for the reading and post-reading celebration. Warmly, Danielle, Dave, Greg, Katy, and Matt ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 15:35:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: Hejinian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear friends: Recordings of sessions featuring Lyn Hejianian at the Kelly Writers House are now available: http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~whfellow/hejinian.html Best wishes, Al Filreis Kelly Professor of English Faculty Director, the Kelly Writers House Director, the Center for Programs in Contemporary Writing University of Pennsylvania http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 13:45:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pamela Lu Subject: Re: Thanks For The Question, Alexander MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I hesitate to hurl myself like a playing card on the cinders of this = tired old topic, but oh well here goes... =20 As Jesse Glass and Rich Newman have explained very well, the generally agreed-upon answer is no, "Jap" is NOT a desirable short form for = "Japanese." The three-letter abbreviation for Japan the country is "Jpn," which you = will see on your tv screen during the Olympics and in global business correspondence. YES, WWII is long over, but NO the memory of that war is = not over for many many people on this planet. YES the collective cultural = memory of "Jap" being applied as a racist and insulting epithet is still very = fresh in the minds of not only Japanese and Japanese Americans, but of anyone = (like myself) who might be seen as a susceptible target of such an epithet, = and of anyone who might think of using such an epithet (with the full power of = all its epithetic associations) against a susceptible target, as I have personally seen done through the 1980s, nearly half a century after V-J = Day. NO the individuals who used this term and similar terms against me in a disparaging manner did not remember WWII and were in fact too young by = far to have even come close to living through WWII, but they had a stunning and (Alexander S. might consider) precocious command of language, precocious enough to grasp the historically derogatory connotations of a certain three-letter word and to use it for that very power. NO this does not = mean that people (like Steve D. and his wife) can't use this same word in = casual off-the-cuff descriptive speech, as possibly an insider's game of = detourning and subverting historical stereotypes, but YES the insider/outsider = context of such a detournment must be well understood by both speaker and = audience and if not it must be questioned and explained, as has been done on this = list over the past few days. NO the word "Jap" will not be erased of its = negative context and acquire neutral status anytime soon, and NO the status of a = word in culture can't/won't obey the outcome of an intellectual debate = however well-thought-through or well-intentioned, but is instead dependent on practice, on the usage of that word in culture based on agreements = between and among individuals; and so YES Alexander by all means don't take my = word for it, don't take Jerrold's or Jesse's or Rich's word for it, but test = your hypothesis out in the street, particularly in your local Japantown or Chinatown or in the alleys of Shinjuku if you enjoy travel, and gather = your data as you may... =20 -Pam Lu, who is not a Japanese woman but plays one on tv ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 14:03:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Reminder Feb 25th @ Logan's Pub: Brand X Media Fundraiser MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT jesse@brandxmedia.ca This friday @ Logans pub for the second annual Brand X Media fundraiser and musical showcase. http://www.brandxmedia.ca About The Bands: They Shoot Horses, Don't They? Shindig finalists and Vancouver residents They Shoot Horses, Don't They? are a hillbilly art rock band from Vancouver British Columbia. Self described as an “Old Root-A-Ma-Toot band” They Shoot horses has grown a reputation for their amazing live shows and off kilter brand of demented poppy art-rock. Playing along such notable acts as ‘I am world trade Center’, and ‘The Unicorns’ - They Shoot Horses are a band not to be missed. Web Site: http://www.theyshoothorses.org MP3: http://www.theyshoothorses.org/hitmyhead.mp3 --------------------------------------------------------- Hank Pine & Lily Fawn Hank Pine and Lily Fawn are a vaudeville-inspired duo from Victoria, British Columbia, whose act is based upon the tragic and hilarious adventures of their comic book series. Like the great acts of old, the music covers many genres, yet all stems from a punk rock ethic, and an appreciation for the delicate art of entertaining. Hank is a tall, dark, and mysterious figure in goggles and a mask that carries his dead girlfriend around in a garbage bag, plays the cello, keyboards, guitars, ukulele, accordion, drums and whatever else he can get his hands on. Lily, a half-deer, half-human forest creature, that tap-dances and plays the musical saw, the trumpet, the theremin, the flute, and hits the drums like a six-foot sledgehammer. This debut double album, "The Road to New Orleans..." serves as a soundtrack to the first two issues of their comic book, and showcases both their adoration of all music forms and manic sense of humour. Web Site: http://www.hankandlily.com MP3: http://www.brandxmedia.ca/mp3s/hank_&_lily_-_Necrophelia.mp3 ------------------------------------------------------ David Chenery & The Lonesome Valley Singers David Chenery grew up with cop stories and small town rumours of murder. In his late teens, he began to adapt sixties pop songs by groups like the Box tops, The Zombies and Lulu into screeching, obnoxious punk-rock, causing bar regulars to throw beer bottles and bar managers to cry. By the age of twenty-three, he felt it was time to leave the boredom of rural B.C., and headed to the concrete pastures of ‘the garden city’, Victoria B.C, where he planted some tenuous roots. While attending film school, David discovered the sounds of artists like The Carter Family and Hank Williams. Hearing this music transformed him from a punker-than-thou Misfits aficionado to a writer of traditional country arrangements, and he began to focus his creative energy into the composure of sweeping death-ballads. In late 2003, David released his debut album, entitled "Tonight I’ll Be Singing In The Devils Choir" with his merry band of degenerates The Lonesome Valley Singers. In the brief window of time since, David has completed a modest tour of Western Canada and opened for a plethora of well-known artists, including Smog, Elevator to Hell, and underground Canadian icon Dale Morningstar and has recently revived his music with a new line-up of Lonesome Valley Singers notably including Singer/songwriter Chelsea Wakelyn, Former Sensitone & Mondegreen, Martin Courchane. Recently David & The Lonesome Valley Singers have released the highly acclaimed follow-up to The Devil’s Choir album, entitled Memorial. web site: http://www.davidchenery.com MP3: http://davidchenery.com/audio/the_devils_choir.mp3 ----------------------------------------------------------- Counting Heartbeats Featuring members of such local groups ‘Smallhorse’ & ‘Black Tie Social’ the band has in the short span of six months has grown a great amount of attention throughout Victoria’s All-Ages indie/punk circuit and will start off the night’s festivities. http://countingheartbeats.blogspot.com Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date\ \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:01:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: BushBrussels Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original China is a Great Nation, and the US a dangerous Imperialist terrorist nation - China and North Korea will not stand by and let the Imperialists invade them. For this prurpose they have IMBs Dont forget the IBMS - you hit me - me hit you back. BOOOM!! Long live China! Death to Imperialism!! Long live Korea!! Long live Iran!! Long live Syria !! Death to Capitalism !! Dont listen to splitters or bourgeois pessimists. Defend against US and British military. Don't forget the crimes of US Imperialism. Workers of the World Unite!! The Mai Lai massacre to Abhu Graib Never forget the crimes. Richard Taylor Auckland - New Zealand ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Leland Winks" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 10:45 AM Subject: Re: BushBrussels > Oh Richard, Richard, do for once try thinking before you type. To wit, > > the Chinese are a great nation and a very >> democratic -perhaps the most in the world despite anti-communist >> propaganda - > > I suppose it's anti-communist propaganda that there was a Tienanmen > Square massacre more than fifteen years ago perpetrated against people > calling for China to be the "democratic" nation you claim it to be. > > There are hundreds of rural revolts -- strikes, protests, etc. -- > going on right now in China. I guess the grievances are fed by anti- > communist propaganda rather than poverty and the oppressive policies > of local Communist Party officials, right? > > the\\china was attacked by the Japs in WW2 > > Japs! Such a lovely little epithet, and one that's been subjected to > some discussion lately on the list. Did you notice, Richard? > > never has China invaded another country (Tibet's >> always a part >> of China) > > The Tibetans might have another idea about that, but I suppose they > don't matter much to you. I'm looking forward to hearing you > write "Chechnya always a part of Russia." Oh yes, and wasn't there a > war between China and Vietnam about 25-30 years ago, and hasn't > Vietnam always had historical grounds to fear China's hegemonism? > > never rained down massive tonnages of bombs, napalm, nerve >> installed dictators only to have then overthrown as an excuse for an >> invasion etc or for purposes of destabilization - on the contrary >> - China >> has helped many countries economically > > Well, China also supported Jonas Savimbi's brutal war in Angola, sent > arms to crush a (Maoist!) insurrection in Sri Lanka in the early > 1970s, supported Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge, and stood idly by when > thousands of its partisans were massacred in Indonesia in 1965. Not > to speak of the millions of dead as a result of demented policies like > the "Great Leap Forward" and palace coups run amok like the "Great > Proletarian Cultural Revolution," which as a few heretics noted at the > time, was neither proletarian, nor cultural, nor a revolution. > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 17:28:11 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Benjamin Basan Subject: Re: BushBrussels In-Reply-To: <002f01c519e2$738163d0$817e37d2@com747839ba04b> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Richard, Your humor/ humour does not come across well on email.. A polemic from one hegemony to another is hardly worth the argumentation. On 2/23/05 2:01 PM, "Richard Taylor" wrote: > China is a Great Nation, and the US a dangerous Imperialist terrorist > nation - China and North Korea will not stand by and let the Imperialists > invade them. For this prurpose they have IMBs > > Dont forget the IBMS - you hit me - me hit you back. > > BOOOM!! > > Long live China! Death to Imperialism!! Long live Korea!! Long live Iran!! > Long live Syria !! Death to Capitalism !! > > Dont listen to splitters or bourgeois pessimists. Defend against US and > British military. > > Don't forget the crimes of US Imperialism. > > Workers of the World Unite!! > > The Mai Lai massacre to Abhu Graib > > Never forget the crimes. > > Richard Taylor > > Auckland - New Zealand > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 19:57:53 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chicago Review Subject: Zukofsky | Winter 2004/5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" CR is please to announce CHICAGO REVIEW 50:2/3/4 (Winter 2004/5) This triple issue features a "centennial portfolio" on Louis Zukofsky, wch includes: = an excerpt from Mark Scroggins's bio of Zukofsky, = David Wray on the translations in "A"-21 and CATULLUS = selected correspondence (with Pound, Creeley, Kenner, others) = photos by Elsa Dorfman, = Paul Zukofsky on his father's marginalia. Also in the issue are = POEMS by John Taggart, Rae Armantrout, Tom Pickard, Rachel Blau Duplessis, Theodore Enslin, Jordan Davis, Tyrone Williams, and more = ESSAYS by Susan Stewart, William Fuller, Michael Heller, Devin Johnston, and Jeffrey Twitchell-Waas = TRANSLATIONS of Sophocles, Dante, Ovid (a "transientlation"), Paul Eluard, Raymond Roussel, Giorgio Manganelli, and others = INTERVIEWS with Arthur Sze, Ralph J. Mills, Jr., and D. A. Powell = REVIEWS of the Zukofsky/Williams correspondence, and of new books by McClure, Heller, Joron, Zawacki, Wildman, and Gladman = the LETTER BOX includes an exchange between Keston Sutherland and Keith Tuma on Ed Dorn, along with other letters to the editor and a remembrance of Lucia Berlin by Alastair Johnston. = 392 pp. | $10 * * * Contributor and subscriber copies are in the mail; and there should be copies in your local bookstore before long (ask for it by name), or if you can't wait you can get yours direct from CR --- mail us a check for $10 to ZUKOFSKY ISSUE Chicago Review 5801 South Kenwood Avenue Chicago IL 60637 (please add $20 for overseas shipping --- it's a fat book) Or if you're feeling a little loose, subscriptions are available for a mere $18.... To sweeten the deal, if you subscribe for two years (or subscribe a friend and yourself for one year each), we'll include the book of your choice from either Flood Editions or The Gig Editions. See below for the books on offer and for other increasingly promiscuous deals. [nb: You can still take advantage of these deals even if you're a current subscriber --- we'll just extend your sub accordingly.] FORTHCOMING Our Spring 2005 issue will feature a festschrift on the poet, translator, story-writer, and critic Christopher Middleton, with contributions from Yvonne Jacquette, Marius Kociejowski, August Kleinzahler, Zulfikar Ghose, Keith Waldrop, Rosmarie Waldrop, and many more. Other material currently in the works for 2005 includes POEMS by Elizabeth Willis, Philip Jenks, Alice Notley, Devin Johnston, and others FICTION by Lisa Jarnot, Diana George, Jerzy Ficowski, and others INTERVIEW with Camille Guthrie ESSAYS on Robert Duncan, Paul Vangelisti, and others + | + | + | + | + | + | + | + | + | + | + | + | + | + | + | + | + CHICAGO REVIEW | Flood | Gig special subscription/renewal offer (good through 3/15/05) [circle one:] $18 | one year [for yourself or as a gift] $35 | two years + book of your choice: ___________________ $35 | one year for you + one for your friend, + book of your choice [pls indicate for you or your friend]: ______________________ $50 | three years + two books of your choice: ____________________________ $75 | five years + two books of your choice: ____________________________ + gift subscription to: -------> overseas subs add $30/year for postage ($10/year for canada or mexico) send my sub to ______________________________ name ______________________________ address ______________________________ city | state | zip send my gift to ______________________________name ______________________________address ______________________________city | state | zip gift card should read: "from___________________" Mail this form with your check to Zuk Subs Chicago Review 5801 South Kenwood Avenue Chicago IL 60637 - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - F L O O D E D I T I O N S JENNIFER MOXLEY, OFTEN CAPITAL First published as two separate chapbooks in 1995 and 1996, OFTEN CAPITAL explores the tensions between political commitment and personal desire. Moxley draws in part on the love letters of the Polish radical Rosa Luxemburg in searching out a habitable space for resistance. Moxley employs techniques of collage and juxtaposition as well as narration to sound her subject. Yet the lean, sonorous lines that result leap out of any categorical dichotomies: "our imagined finish line / is the end of reason, the irresistible tantalization / of presence, lips pressed together open / to eat..." JOHN TIPTON, SURFACES SURFACES is John Tipton's first full-length collection of poems. Here is a world of Cartesian precision, where matrices and Markov chains are revealed by the lattice of snowfall and the improbable order of ants. Yet the irrational and the absurd are not exiled from these poems, warping and defining their contours instead: "here the geography is the horizon here / Oklahoma moves him in ways he regrets." JOHN TAGGART, PASTORELLES In PASTORELLES, John Taggart draws on the local culture of rural Pennsylvania to consider the permutations of the human mark. An abandoned one-room schoolhouse, a page from an accounting ledger, a covered bridge still in use: each offers a "glance / perhaps all that was ever possible" into what persists. With wry humor, these poems attend to the ecology of language in a season of drought. TOM PICKARD, THE DARK MONTHS OF MAY In part a chronicle of misfortune and heartbreak, THE DARK MONTHS OF MAY tells of life on the run. With his characteristic bawdiness and sonic aplomb, Pickard seeks refuge in the geography of British border ballads, accompanied by eighteenth-century horse thieves and "desperate reprobates." There, he finds only cold consolation: "leave me now and let me sleep / your thieving words are all I'll keep." for more information on Flood Editions: http://www.floodeditions.com + / + / + / + / + / + / + / + / + / T H E G I G E D I T I O N S REMOVED FOR FURTHER STUDY: THE POETRY OF TOM RAWORTH REMOVED FOR FURTHER STUDY brings together new writing on the British poet Tom Raworth by 24 poets and critics from both sides of the Atlantic, four previously uncollected texts by the poet, and a detailed bibliography. The contributors are: David Ball, cris cheek, Ian Davidson, Nate Dorward, Ken Edwards, Gunnar Harding, Anselm Hollo, Fanny Howe, Doug Lang, J. C. C. Mays, Peter Middleton, Alan Munton, Tom Orange, Marjorie Perloff, Simon Perril, Joan Retallack, Peter Robinson, Claude Royet-Journoud, Robert Sheppard, Ron Silliman, Jonathan Skinner, Keith Tuma, Ben Watson and John Wilkinson. REMOVED FOR FURTHER STUDY provides a fresh and engaging set of responses to the work of one of the major poets of our time. MAGGIE O'SULLIVAN, PALACE OF REPTILES The long-awaited followup to O'Sullivan's IN THE HOUSE OF THE SHAMAN (1993), PALACE OF REPTILES is a dance and a ritual conducted in language, a plumbing and sounding-out of buried histories and vocabularies. Ranging from the brief and beautiful "Ellen's Lament" to the central long poem "DOUBTLESS," the eight poems of this book touch on multiple genres --- elegy, celebration, performance art, poetics talk-in order to transform them. ALLEN FISHER, ENTANGLEMENT This is the first book-length showing of Allen Fisher's work of the 1990s and 2000s, drawing together previously uncollected work from the ongoing project GRAVITY AS A CONSEQUENCE OF SHAPE. ENTANGLEMENT is a meditation on loss, damage and noise, as sources of harm and as sites of unpredictability and creativity. For Fisher, art is transformation, and in these poems --- clashing, combining, recombining, moving restlessly from Piers Plowman to Kurt Cobain to genetic engineering --- such transformation is ultimately a form of healing. for more information on The Gig Editions: http://www.geocities.com/ndorward * * * nb: our website is out of date but shd be updated before long with excerpts and extras (the Dorn issue is still available in limited quantity).... apologies for cross-pesting; if you'd rather not receive any (infrequent) subsequent mailings, pls let us know. * * * * * * * * * * * * CHICAGO REVIEW 5801 South Kenwood Avenue Chicago IL 60637 http://humanities.uchicago.edu/review/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 18:04:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Nuclear Sabe/ Pres. Bush Comments: cc: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit "This notion that the United States is getting ready to attack Iran is simply ridiculous. Having said that, all options are on the table," Bush said Is this something like "double-talk"? "It's ridiculous to say I am getting ready to kill you. Having said that, all options are on the table." Or is one being shortsighted, overly freaked out and a few other things here? Oy! Here comes the gun. Or "Nuclear Sabe" Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 21:16:27 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Pusateri Subject: Nathaniel Dorsky Films in Seattle, Thurs. 2/24 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The Experimental Film Society at the University of Washington presents: WHAT: SACRED SPEED: Selected Films of Nathaniel Dorsky FILMS: Ingreen (1964, 13m), Hours for Jerome, Pts 1 & 2 (1982, 57m), Triste (1996, 19m). WHAT ELSE: Introduction by James Tweedie, University of Washington Cinema Studies Program WHERE: Thomson Hall Rm 101, University of Washington, Seattle WHEN: 7:00 PM, THURSDAY, February 24, 2005 COST: Admission is FREE CONTACT: Chris Pusateri, (206) 217-5745 or email: gelatin@u.washington.edu Nathaniel Dorsky has been making and exhibiting films within the avant-garde tradition since 1964. He now lives in San Francisco where he makes a living as a film editor. His works have been shown internationally in museums and theatres and are in the permanent collections of the Museum of Modern Art (New York), the Pacific Film Archive (Berkeley), Image Forum (Tokyo), Les Archives du film experimental d’Avignon, and Le Centre Pompidou (Paris) as well as many universities. Ingreen (1964), Hours for Jerome (1982), and Triste (1996) are among his better known works. He is author of “Devotional Cinema,” (Tuumba, 2003). _________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 19:50:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: Thanks For The Question, Alexander MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pamela, Yes, both Jesse Glass and Rich Newman provided interesting responses = (except of course for Richard's "Yellow Hordes" which suggested that one = article in the NY Times bespeaks a national attitude, a bit of a one = swallow does not a summer make point, but, appropriate none the = less...): "Hell No!" Is the answer to the question as posed, don't say, = "Jap!" =20 And, obviously, your personal experiences underscore their answers. You = agree, "Hell No, Don't use the word!" I've been intrigued by the responses, in that they support the idea that = the ultimate meaning of any communication lies not with the sender of a = message, but rather with the receiver...I may intend no slur or = derogatory meaning, but you hear the word as such, and so, the negative = meaning is present.=20 And that point too I find interesting, for it suggests that the reader's = deconstruction of any piece reduces the piece to it's essence of = meaning...at least from the reader's/listener's/viewer's point of view. = Perhaps Jacques Derrida makes more sense than some would think.=20 Thanks for the thoughts Alex =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Pamela Lu=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 1:45 PM Subject: Re: Thanks For The Question, Alexander I hesitate to hurl myself like a playing card on the cinders of this = tired old topic, but oh well here goes... =20 As Jesse Glass and Rich Newman have explained very well, the generally agreed-upon answer is no, "Jap" is NOT a desirable short form for = "Japanese." The three-letter abbreviation for Japan the country is "Jpn," which = you will see on your tv screen during the Olympics and in global business correspondence. YES, WWII is long over, but NO the memory of that war = is not over for many many people on this planet. YES the collective cultural = memory of "Jap" being applied as a racist and insulting epithet is still very = fresh in the minds of not only Japanese and Japanese Americans, but of = anyone (like myself) who might be seen as a susceptible target of such an epithet, = and of anyone who might think of using such an epithet (with the full power = of all its epithetic associations) against a susceptible target, as I have personally seen done through the 1980s, nearly half a century after = V-J Day. NO the individuals who used this term and similar terms against me in = a disparaging manner did not remember WWII and were in fact too young by = far to have even come close to living through WWII, but they had a stunning = and (Alexander S. might consider) precocious command of language, = precocious enough to grasp the historically derogatory connotations of a certain three-letter word and to use it for that very power. NO this does not = mean that people (like Steve D. and his wife) can't use this same word in = casual off-the-cuff descriptive speech, as possibly an insider's game of = detourning and subverting historical stereotypes, but YES the insider/outsider = context of such a detournment must be well understood by both speaker and = audience and if not it must be questioned and explained, as has been done on = this list over the past few days. NO the word "Jap" will not be erased of its = negative context and acquire neutral status anytime soon, and NO the status of = a word in culture can't/won't obey the outcome of an intellectual debate = however well-thought-through or well-intentioned, but is instead dependent on practice, on the usage of that word in culture based on agreements = between and among individuals; and so YES Alexander by all means don't take my = word for it, don't take Jerrold's or Jesse's or Rich's word for it, but = test your hypothesis out in the street, particularly in your local Japantown or Chinatown or in the alleys of Shinjuku if you enjoy travel, and gather = your data as you may... =20 -Pam Lu, who is not a Japanese woman but plays one on tv ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 23:13:58 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Re: Thanks For The Question, Alexander In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Alex, >>Yes, both Jesse Glass and Rich Newman provided interesting responses (except of course for Richard's "Yellow Hordes" which suggested that one article in the NY Times bespeaks a national attitude, a bit of a one swallow does not a summer make point, but, appropriate none the less...)<< Not to belabor this, but I guess I do want to be clear: My "yellow hordes" comment was not based on a single article in the NY Times, but on responses in other media as well, and also on conversations with people, not a few of whom were my students. Even then, you may be right that my sample does not necessarily bespeak an overtly expressed national attitude. My point was that the cultural stereotypes are there under the surface for people to tap into for whatever reason they might wish to. Best-- Richard ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 23:16:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed normal performance >> on the left you're watching the recent revolution in the ukraine on the right the end of empire signalled by the presence of infinite viewpoints berlin 1939 new york 2002 in the middle anya warming up anya goes into a trance. everything disappears. the world remains outside of anya. nothing is inside anya. nothing. anya believe in the world but the world is not there and anya is there in the world. this is the beginning of everything in the show which is not everything in the world. you can see you can see how the computer makes me make mistakes in america at the moment we are a divided nation but we are the strongest nation in the world and 2 into one is one half. we are one half of a nation we are crippled. in a book I am currently reading by Stefan Zweig there is a crippled girl and the motto of the book is beware of pity. we are at an impasse. we are lost. i cannot see 'what i am typing' or if i see 'what i am typing' i do not see my speech and do not hear my speech. you have one or the other one you either speak or you are spoken to. in the history of empire, it's one or the Other: you speak or you are spoken to. there is no speech in dance. there is nothing in dance, absolutely nothing. there is the body and the body is nothing. now about these people. these people want you to know something about them. these people are the victims of a 'massacre.' i put 'massacre' in quotation marks because who can tell what is a massacre and what isn't? it's all confused. fox news says it isn't a massacre. cbc says it is. abc nbc cbs say wait and see who knows if it's a massacre or not. very many people have died! they are people of all colors! they have different shapes. animals have different shapes too and there are many dead animals. I bet you didn't know animal species are disappearing at the rate of three to four AN HOUR on the planet! not individual animals, but entire species. humans are one species and they're still around. if they weren't around I bet there'd be more species! I'd bet a lot. but back to the massacre. maybe a lot of humans died. we don't even count animals. did you know that hundreds of thousands of birds - birds - died during the World Trade Center bombing and its aftermath? after the bombing and the building collapse, a year later, there were memorials - huge columns of light! beautiful light, incredible light! where the world trade center was wonderful light! the light went through - right through - the migration paths of birds! 50,000 *ti y try typing inthe dark!) - fifty thousand birds died because of the light! seventeen times as many people as died in the world trade center! it was a terrific memorial! anya dances and she doesn't know what or why she's dancing or what the machine is doing just outside the studio or why those people on the right are just broken up like that. she doesn't have a clue. things fall apart, but the book is based on africa. late at night i can't sleep. i have nightmares. in this war, now, 150000 iraqi have been killed and many americans and people of other nations and in the last iraqi war 165000 wwere killed, beween father and son that is over 300000 people and hiroshima, the dropping of the bomb, killed how many, perhaps 150000 killed. how many romani were killed in world war two. how many armenians early on. when did the species start disappearing. i was asked to do a piece about death and i did a piece about birth and death they are not the same but they are conne3ct and they are connect to sex this is connect to sex this is the film over and over until you want the body to disappear. when a species disappear you know it's really gone, nothing can bring it back, not all the dna banks in the world. i'm sorry about this. i should tell you what i know about normal illinois. well there is hot water in the men's room. i know that for a fact because i tried the faucet and it went lukewarm on me. but i didn't wait for it to get hot, i didn't have time. but i'm sure it would do that if i had waited. the monument in the image is to the dead from siberia in 1031. that was 1931. these are the dead but things are falling apart. you can't bury them and you can't carry on much longer. it's as if the body's been taken away by inscription. inscription of empire. but we can reclaim bodies, write on them: but what we write on each other is only of interest to the censors! it doesn't matter. what we're saying doesn't matter. it's like the koranic interlude of reason. have you read the koran? avicenna? averroes? have you read the bible? the sutras? upanishads? have you written on your body? in the midst of the most secret dreams of the world have you written on your body? in your nightmares? tattoos? something deeper, more private? written on the inside? operations? plastic surgeries? ways to stay alive? in this piece of the bodies there are five cameras. the sound triggers the cameras and creates the edits. the sound is making the movie. now in this piece, nothing is doing the edits. it's just a shamanic body in midair. it's just a woman cut by glass. she's moving the way i tell her to. she's wearing whatever i tell her to i told her not to wear anything at all. now there's a skeleton behind the shaman and the shaman is controlling the skeleton or the skeleton is controlling the shaman because the skeleton is her animal. i didn't tell her to dance this way but someone else did. how, alan, is that possible. because someone else worked the machinery that made the movements so she coulddance. and if someone else didn't work the machinery she wouldn't move at all. she's a file and you can kill her by entering "delete" although she's also a file and you can kill her by entering "kill." Hello, my object. Kathy Acker wouldcalll this the empire of the senseless. See wha happens, there's a glitch in the presentation - why not? and everyone gets restless. time for lunch! or maybe say something or other, I don't know, what would you say? this stuff is pretty weird, I'm not sure what he's getting at, he seems to have forgotten the massacres, is it him or the computer thats acting up, doesn't he know how to use punctuation. damn, it just slowed again, all by itself.... just so you know this is actually a conversastion between Sandy Baldwin and myself on the fundamental difference between analog and digital regimes in the world. but it got changed in the process, I don't think Sandy even knows it sounded like this. honest, there were no changes at all. we were busy watching these creatures doing their thing near the ceiling. this is what we were doing. these made the stick imagery you see on the left. the stick imagery made files. the files were imported into a program that clothed them into avatars. the avatars were played against background images edited in another program. we can send shortly. this is stuff that was shot in the evergaldes. we had to escape people in miami, i think anyone in their right mind would want to escape people in miami, so we weent to the everglades. we were there in the middle of the night talking with snakes and alligators and in the daytime wading through stuff and taking photographs of just about everything. it's not entertainment but it's the best we've got. the dancer will dance for you for a little bit and we will end this piece called "The Derailment of Massacre" which pretty much sums things up. thank you and for questions now. (somewhere along the way i got lost _ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 23:22:14 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brenda Coultas Subject: Brad Will cont. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, This came today from Brad. Brenda Coultas please go to the brazilian embassy and tell them to stop the bulldozing, stop the cover up and begin an international investigation -- goiania (pronounced goy-an-ya) --> Brazilian Consulate General in New York 1185 Avenue of the Americas (Sixth Avenue), 21st Floor New York, NY 10036 Phone: (917) 777-7777 closed monday. Try Tuesday during normal business hours. Dial 0 after message and you'll be switched to an operator. Ask politely where you might leave a message regarding the assault on the homeless encampment in Goiania, Brasil. If you are not in New York, you can find contacts for your local consulate (if you are in a major city in the states) by going to the following website: www.brazilhouston.org/ingles/jurisdic.htm. At the bottom of the webpage is the Brasilian Embassy in Washington, D.C. You may want to contact them first and then the consulate nearest you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=- part3 i was lost -- there were rows and rows of detainees and more being marched hands over head in a line -- clusters of women with small children and elderly trickled out unescorted and were shown to waiting buses-- i had been handed over to a plains clothes policeman who finally found my digital photo camera -- the idea of losing another camera in one day put me in a panic -- i told him just to take the card out and give me back the camera again and again -- he went through every little pocket and had all these scraps of paper i had forgot to throw away with phone numbers and addresses of people who had nothing to do with anything and put my passport and my camera in a separate plastic bag with these things -- i kept asking if he could cut off the plastic cuffs and replace them -- he just wandered away with my bag after placing a guard right over my head -- a couple dogs were on the lose and one came close and he kicked it -- the militarty police kept yelling insults and kicking people who were sitting on the ground -- the pain in my back was making it hard to sit but if i relaxed at all it would push on my hands andthe pain would shoot into me -- the hard brazilian sun was beating down and i was sweating hard -- i looked up and there was a local companero from indymedia pointing at me -- he wasnt even in cuffs -- they came over and he started explaining we were together -- what an incredible relief -- i wasnt alone -- soon another was discovered -- his video camera had also been stolen -- they cut off my cuffs and my whole body sighed -- we were separated from the mob scene and placed in neutral territory baking in the sun between the prisoners and a tent where the hard core military police were in the shade celebrating their victory -- they would come marching out in formation singing songs -- it was twisted i looked in some of their eyes and there was just darkness -- it was like they had no souls, cold hard steel killers-- i saw other undercover police with a computer and some really young ones getting into a car -- there was a lot of talk of infiltration the days before -- time crawled -- eventually we were placed on a bus with all the other prisoners -- i coulnt figure out which was worse for us, being isolated or lost in the herd -- but with the other imcistas i was calmed -- at the police station it was mayhem -- paperwork took forever -- we were led to an area turned into a medical station -- there were pools of blood on the floor starting to turn black at the edges -- people were getting stiches for head wounds -- i saw a guy with bandages all over his head caked in blood -- he described a bullet passing through his scalp -- he was refusing more medical treatment --- he looked scared -- there was movement everywhere and every available space was utilized with scores of prisoners -- it was a much more mellow scene -- there was a journalist who spoke english and i told her i was beaten and they stole my camera but no one say it on the news -- i got a medical check and slowly slowly we made our way to the federal police -- i was the only foreigner -- as we drove out there were other imcistas outside trying tofigure out were we were off to -- there were crowds of young people who had gone to school that day and were gloomily waiting for their parents -- looking at them they could be from anywhere, any class and country, all clean and in their nice clothes with book bags -- we sped away -- at the federal police the snails pace continued as they argued about my visa -- i had a tourist vias but they said i was working as a journalist -- we explained that my work with the imc was completely unpaid -- they said they were going to cut me loose with a court date in june -- ok -- then they wanted to go copy all the photos in my camera -- this took about 3 hours and suddenly i was buzing away out of there and ready to pass out ---- so many stories to tell -- i only have written about what i saw so far but now i need to write about the witness accounts -- people said they saw bodies being dragged to the water wells and dumped, they saw bodies thrown into burning buildings -- no one knew how many were still missing -- all night there were military ambulances leaving the encampment -- all night imc volunteers were at the hospitals and these ambulances never arrived -- a massive orchestrated coverup was underway while i collapsed that night -- people working in the hospitals were afraid to talk with us -- they were already bulldozing houses -- in the jail so called leaders were being selectivle pulled into special holding for interogation -- children still looking for their parents -- streams of refugees -- there was no government plan what to do with these people -- the next morning there was a gathering called for at the catholic church -- i asked if the police would be there waiting and a friend said never, after what happened the day before, this was the center of the city -- there was a sound system and people scattered everywhere in and out of the church sleeping -- most of them didnt even have a change of clothes -- i talked to many who had their money, their identification and their cell phones stolen -- everyone was hungry -- was takijng pictures and say a gathering near the alter and it looked like they were distributing food -- i walked up and there were two open caskets -- it was more than i could handle -- they were floating in pools of flowers and surrounded by loved ones crying -- little children didnt seems to understand -- one had pictures of he and his wife, hisnew home in the encampment, them on a vacation -- so proud and full of life -- the other had strange marks on his hand and everyone told me they were the initals of the policeman who killed him -- some kind of weird trophey marking -- i was spilling out and dizzy i stumbled away and cried -- they could have been anyone, they could have been me -- the police said they died shooting eachother and the corporate media repeated it unquestioned -- the two official deaths -- outside there was a huge line waiting to report missing people -- their faces -- i turned away -- there was some distribution of clothing and soap and bread but it was a mad house people pushing and desperate clutching babies -- i went with a friend who said she was getting food at the market for the church kitchen -- i went to a safe house to rest a while and people came running in to tell me about the attack -- undercover police had infiltrated the rally that started at the church and had grabbed on of the so called leaders to arrest him -- the people werent having it and started to fight for their companero -- the undercovers pulled out their guns shooting in the air and were barely able to flee the scene running into a forming block of military police who were suspiciously near by in large numbers -- the community was there for a funeral -- despite the gunplay they assembled for a march carrying the caskets to a huge park then buses took them to the cemetary -- after the funeral the buses went to the mayors office and everyone camped out for hours -- a storm was brewing black clouds in the distance and the wind kicked hard -- there were different proposals on the loudspeaker and people decided to go to two gymnasiums set aside for housing -- what a dark night to be continued... 'In sum, we are an army of dreamers, and therefore invincible. How can we fail to win, with this imagination overturning everything. Or rather, we do not deserve to lose.' - Subcomandante Marcos ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 23:21:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: The Bi-Coontinental Chowder In-Reply-To: <20050222173315.709BF13F45@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For those in the Albany, NY region: Wednesday 23, Thursday 24 , Friday 25, Saturday 26 February 7PM at Firlefanz Gallery 292 Lark Street Gallery opens at 6 PM Price: $10/6 Come to hear, smell, see & taste "The Bi-Continental Chowder" http://www.nicolepeyrafitte.com/Garbure/B.C.Chowder/B.C.Chowder.html a m=E9lange performance with & by Nicole Peyrafitte accompanied by George Muscatello on electric guitar There is also an exhibit of Peyrafitte's paintings The gallery opens at 6:00PM every night of the performance = =09 www.nicolepeyrafitte.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D For updates on readings, etc. check my current events page: http://albany.edu/~joris/CurrentEvents.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street=09 Albany NY 12202 =09 h: 518 426 0433 =09 c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 =09= email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 00:46:57 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the 4 seasons spring summer fall seafood risotto truffle oil farm house duck mandarin orange wild rice lemon souffle clams & oysters limo at the door qlq carte prix fixe last blue pane Gwathmey-Siegel empire of the art's heart flavin candy judd bk box lever bldng chrysler arrow johnson's pool $$$ & lite at the center on the edge knife cuts flame begs... 3:00....l'amour de...mon coeur...drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 02:08:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: wp solo time warrants MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit time warrants theatre is of life/ celebration death's celebration grown up on gi'me gimme gim-me gave nip grown into threat folder's day/nite pulpit juice-it grow it regroup it treat it alla g-d's chullin' gotta dust their rusty guns a gabriel tune blown up outta the mouth of conciants pup pets revolving around room & densenses why i awak(e) we were here we - such a mess - the coverings we wear egnarts strangling chosen sherzelessnesses hurry milastring hurry samila etove alap ompletion smudge fudge built abridge grudge rigid budge i disappeared & then i disappeared an ebvir mystery hooked to cold mystery on a hot layered day primary blown loaned to the outer position full blown new strain appeared this reflown as then began a new arrive re: rain lower line none 2 diff. people with same name same i disappeared re-appeared again falute peekept epak larcoma sinon redux loopiness "booday boodee boodah booday..." ash-a-mimba i dis appear & re-appear again i gain o comin nimoc acomic cimoc acomic reposit the allayment tis its croonin tis abaffle in tellin the squeeze in uptuals allegrow & pasted inta the sta(i)ring a fumbled pass a passing noun a noomerated 1/2 life i disappeard & then returned again blued a-blooed-tions bussed booooozed ablu................ steve dalachinsky nyc 2/13/05 soto velez center william parker solo ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 02:09:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: "Danger on Peaks" and thanks for the question alexander MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit here here cc pamela do you think the term japs which is a negative developed in ww2 and which i used in passing but not really to start another stupid racial argument on this list really has anything to do with detourning? as in detourne-3d text??? i took detourning to mean the subverting of say advertising text reconfiguring it reusing the text like a cutup no/? as i stated to jesse privately if we perhaps did what lenty bruce suggested and stopped putting so much emphasis on these negatives we could reduce their impacts instead of the way we've travelled in the late 20th century with political correctness as the way to go and i think most of us on this list know the values of usage and what is meant by what is expressed do we do this because we write and just have morbid needs to continually play with language and dissect the meaning until as lenny bruce would have put it but in diff words it is made impotent and no longer dangerous or because we are so damned liberal and so continually afraid of hurting eachothers feelings tho we seem to do it constantly on this list or so afraid of hurting the rest of the worlds' feelings be it jesse's or some unknown real world out there that most of us don't even live in or is it like that george carlin joke ? the words we can't say on the air what were they shit piss motherfker whatever you get it that's why blokes like stanley crouch still use negro - he's progressively backward but wants to maintain one identity and one identity only - wow i'm cruisin here on auto-pilot so i'd better stop and it could be worse mch worse jap was the polite baddy it coulda been nip or gook or.... worse jap jap jap jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap japppppppppppppppppppppppp it's a man's first name in dutch he used to sell art books jaap ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:41:25 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: The Good Doctor is Gone MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No fewer than nine books by Thompson were ranked among the top 100 best-selling books on Amazon.com yesterday. On Barnes & Noble.com, seven titles were on the top-100 list. Unfortunately for readers, most of the titles were temporarily sold out, with delivery times ranging from two days to two weeks. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 02:52:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Kazim Ali Subject: hate speech In-Reply-To: <20050223.021416.-74557.33.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I think Pamela explained eloquently enough why these words and other words, invested with intense historical weight, are difficult to use no matter the coding of the present user. and it is always lame when it is a non-asian or non-african, etc (if I can make the assumption) who defends its use. you may have all sorts of high theories of the use of the word, but not the people who are listening to you (on this list or in the streets of New York, as Pamela advised to experiment). lame at best. at worst criminal. if not actually then in its effect. I was just reading about the Kundiman Foundation's Vincent Chin chapbook award and then I have to come on this poetics list and listen to debate about whether or not "jap" has outgrown its historical connotation of racism? Appalling. > and it could be worse mch worse jap was the polite > baddy it coulda been > nip or gook or.... > worse > jap jap jap jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap > japppppppppppppppppppppppp > > it's a man's first name in dutch he used to sell > art books jaap > ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 11:56:03 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: vaguely about the word jap In-Reply-To: <20050223105247.9532.qmail@web51107.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit If I asked every subscriber to this list, directly, if they cared what I think of the word "Jap," I bet not one could honestly say "yes." It might technically be a wordsmithing issue, but until someone can say something I haven't heard 100 times in a bar, I ain't seein' no intellectualism in it. -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:46:42 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: vaguely about the word jap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ive been skipping this thread, being busy, and i'm not sure why i looked = at this message; and i dont know where youre coming from on it, tho it = seems to be an odd place in reply to your unasked question, i think Jap is an offensive word, as = such contractions often are, I mean likely to cause offence to those it = describes - my offence derives from that I hear it in wwii films as a run up to japanese being killed. In the = context of the film, I am not saying the killing is wrong; but the use = of it is part of the process of saying it's ok to kill them. They're not = Japanese, they're not human beings, theyre not sons, daughters, spouses, = theyre japs. Get the fly spray someone. In war it is a way of helping = people commit the repugnant act of murder by verbally dehumanising the = victims. The effects of such abuse hang around in the soil of things, = like agent orange I hear Australians call themselves Aussies / Ozzies, so I assume they = are happy with it. I never hear Japanese calls themselves Japs. I assume = they are not happy with it. Any Japanese person I have spoken to who = thinks it necessary to identify their country has always said "I am = Japanese" I class Jap as a demeaning-in-intent and sometimes racist coinage I don't know if that is intellectual enough. It is also what you call a wordsmithing issue, of course. L -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Penton To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 12:09 PM Subject: vaguely about the word jap If I asked every subscriber to this list, directly, if they cared what = I think of the word "Jap," I bet not one could honestly say "yes." It might technically be a wordsmithing issue, but until someone can = say something I haven't heard 100 times in a bar, I ain't seein' no intellectualism in it. -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:43:54 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: about the word "jap" In-Reply-To: <002801c519a5$d1e3e980$331486d4@o2p8f8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > From: Jonathan Penton > If I asked every subscriber to this list, directly, if they cared > what I think of the word "Jap," I bet not one could honestly say > "yes." Perhaps it is true that no one would care enough to say anything of what you THINK of the word "Jap", but it's clear that there are lots of opinions about your USE of the word "Jap". If you kept what you think of the word "Jap" to yourself, and also didn't use the word, then the issue would not arise. But once you use the word you necessarily open the issue of others' opinions of the word, the use of the word in general, and your use of it in particular. > It might technically be a wordsmithing issue, but until someone can > say something I haven't heard 100 times in a bar, I ain't seein' no > intellectualism in it. It may be that in the bars you prefer "Jap" and "nigger" and "wop" and "spic" and "cunt" and the like are all thrown about with enthusiasm and, because no Americans of Japanese, African, Italian, or Hispanic ancestry go there, and the women are economically dependent on white guys who call them "cunts", you get no objection. The general rule in civilized discourse is to refer to individuals and to groups of people by the terms that those individuals and those groups of people do not object to. Perhaps you're not frequenting the right bars. Why not try your theory out in bars where there are a lot of Americans of Japanese ancestry? Report back to us here when you get out of the hospital. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 07:57:04 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: vaguely about the word jap In-Reply-To: <1247.4.240.153.57.1109159763.squirrel@webmail.safepages.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i'm not sure i understand this discussion. the term "jap" is offensive, period. doesn't everyone know this? i can't believe it has garnered serious debate here. At 11:56 AM +0000 2/23/05, Jonathan Penton wrote: >If I asked every subscriber to this list, directly, if they cared what I >think of the word "Jap," I bet not one could honestly say "yes." > >It might technically be a wordsmithing issue, but until someone can say >something I haven't heard 100 times in a bar, I ain't seein' no >intellectualism in it. > >-- >Jonathan Penton >http://www.unlikelystories.org -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 03:08:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: vaguely about the word jap Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original I agree overall - but I think it is a peccadilo - - lets not forget what the Japs did in WW2 - and they still have ambitions -- lets not get too PC about everything ... My mother -a good and a very English person, gentle , called the Japanese "Japs" - on Ocean Island friends were killed - Jap is just a shortened form - (killing isnt good if it can be avoided) - I knew one Kiwi bloke who hated Japs - really hated them from his war experience - - of course one Imperialism pushing away another - but they also called the islanders "natives" they didnt mean anything by it - it was a habit of the colonialists - Maori here were called "natives" and for a long time were not allowed to speak Maori -all sorts of things - trivial or non trivial facts etc - creep out of the wood work.. Dont say it!! When i was young I thought that it didnt matter if black people were killed - seen too many Tarzan films or cowboy and Indian films etc - Maori just seemed to me to be in another world.....kind of thought they didnt feel pain etc ... in some ways that is still the case - the are in some ways in a foreign land if they are my neighbbours...there is quite a distance Pakeha - Maori etc I am Eurocentric - although I try to resist that aspect of myself..it keeps pushing through..as do other prejudices I have...although I think at my grandfather was London Jew Definitions - English = good. British (in the old Imperial) "sense" = bad. So Britain is still an Imperailist and on (technical but no longer an imperialist nation in the old sense - coloniser as such (transformered to modern day Imperialism) - and the English are good people who drink tea and have scones and live in cottages in the Cotswolds etc - THAT is MY England Kiwi = good person. Kiwi is used all the time by all New Zealanders we say Kiwis are this kiwis are that rather than New Zealanders - "you are a real kiwi" is heard often or "kiwi kids" etc - kiwi and or fucking sheep references is are not offensive - actaully i think there are more sheep in the UK (Old Blighty) Richard Taylor Auckland - New Zealand richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Book Collector/Writer --------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."---------------------- Aspect Books www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Upton" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 4:46 AM Subject: Re: vaguely about the word jap ive been skipping this thread, being busy, and i'm not sure why i looked at this message; and i dont know where youre coming from on it, tho it seems to be an odd place in reply to your unasked question, i think Jap is an offensive word, as such contractions often are, I mean likely to cause offence to those it describes - my offence derives from that I hear it in wwii films as a run up to japanese being killed. In the context of the film, I am not saying the killing is wrong; but the use of it is part of the process of saying it's ok to kill them. They're not Japanese, they're not human beings, theyre not sons, daughters, spouses, theyre japs. Get the fly spray someone. In war it is a way of helping people commit the repugnant act of murder by verbally dehumanising the victims. The effects of such abuse hang around in the soil of things, like agent orange I hear Australians call themselves Aussies / Ozzies, so I assume they are happy with it. I never hear Japanese calls themselves Japs. I assume they are not happy with it. Any Japanese person I have spoken to who thinks it necessary to identify their country has always said "I am Japanese" I class Jap as a demeaning-in-intent and sometimes racist coinage I don't know if that is intellectual enough. It is also what you call a wordsmithing issue, of course. L -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Penton To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 12:09 PM Subject: vaguely about the word jap If I asked every subscriber to this list, directly, if they cared what I think of the word "Jap," I bet not one could honestly say "yes." It might technically be a wordsmithing issue, but until someone can say something I haven't heard 100 times in a bar, I ain't seein' no intellectualism in it. -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 07:23:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: about the word "jap" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> From: Jonathan Penton >> If I asked every subscriber to this list, directly, if they cared what I think of the word "Jap," I bet not one could honestly say "yes." > > Perhaps it is true that no one would care enough to say anything of what you THINK of the word "Jap", but it's clear that there are lots of opinions about your USE of the word "Jap". If you kept what you think of the word "Jap" to yourself, and also didn't use the word, then the issue would not arise. But once you use the word you > necessarily open the issue of others' opinions of the word, the use of the word in general, and your use of it in particular. That's a valid argument. Of extreme curiosity to me is the fact that I DID keep my opinion of the word "Jap" to myself, yet you assumed, for reasons I'd be interested in hearing about, that you knew what that opinion was. In fact, I have used the word only to verbally roll my eyes at the debate surrounding it. >> It might technically be a wordsmithing issue, but until someone can say something I haven't heard 100 times in a bar, I ain't seein' no intellectualism in it. > > It may be that in the bars you prefer "Jap" and "nigger" and "wop" and "spic" and "cunt" and the like are all thrown about with > enthusiasm and, because no Americans of Japanese, African, Italian, or Hispanic ancestry go there, and the women are economically > dependent on white guys who call them "cunts", you get no objection. > > The general rule in civilized discourse is to refer to individuals and to groups of people by the terms that those individuals and those groups of people do not object to. > > Perhaps you're not frequenting the right bars. Why not try your > theory out in bars where there are a lot of Americans of Japanese ancestry? Report back to us here when you get out of the hospital. Again, you have assumed a "theory" when I have offered none. I have certainly used the word "cunt" in both white- and blue-collar lesbian bars, because there is a movement to liberate it. I've survived. I know of no movement to liberate the word "Jap," but you are correct in guessing I've never been to a Japanese bar, though I suspect I would find your reasons for guessing this skewed. There's no large movement to liberate the word "spic," though the Sephardi really should, and I certainly know the difference between the words "nigger" and "nigga." If I am hospitalized for using one of these words, I will acknowledge my error. Regardless, I remain as apathetic about your opinion of the word "Jap" as you are about mine, imaginary or real. Regards, -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 09:48:59 -0500 Reply-To: kevin thurston Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: The Good Doctor is Gone In-Reply-To: <000d01c51983$7b261270$859042da@kaya> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit death is always great for sales On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:41:25 +0800, derekrogerson wrote: > > No fewer than nine books by Thompson were ranked among the top 100 > best-selling books on Amazon.com yesterday. On Barnes & Noble.com, seven > titles were on the top-100 list. > > Unfortunately for readers, most of the titles were temporarily sold out, > with delivery times ranging from two days to two weeks. > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 14:51:30 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: racist abuse MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Richard Taylor To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 2:09 PM Subject: Re: vaguely about the word jap >I agree overall - but I think it is a peccadilo - - lets not forget what the Japs did in WW2 - and they still have ambitions -- lets not get too PC about everything ... The Japanese who committed war crimes in WW2 are at the least very old. Many are dead and do not have ambitions by definition. I do not see that calling any still living by an offensive name is justified morally or of any advantage. At best it will create discord. Calling all Japanese by an offensive name is not acceptable. Calling individuals by racist names is not acceptable. If they are murderers, say murderers etc It would be more appropriate to remember what was done to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, a war crime which has never been tried; ambitions to repeat that exercise somewhere - anywhere - remain with us; but I do not wish to insult all the people in the countries whose governments might develop such plans; and my own government is quite capable of doing appalling things. I know because they are doing appalling things. Using references to being PC or not being PC leads to confusion. It muddies the water and blurs the distinction between ridiculous activities and thought through activies Take each issue and event on its merits In this case and in all cases, let the axiom be Let's not be racist to *any extent about *anything L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 09:53:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: I Like ShortpOmes Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Hole Poem circa Washington, D.C. The the the the we took for granted the hole they told us to "go up!" it lost its novelty after the the the face peeked in and said the "hello" --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 09:56:41 -0500 Reply-To: marcus@designerglass.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: about the word "jap" Comments: To: Jonathan Penton In-Reply-To: <1320.4.240.210.135.1109168584.squirrel@webmail.safepages.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Jonathan Penton wrote: > >> If I asked every subscriber to this list, directly, if they cared > what I think of the word "Jap," I bet not one could honestly say > "yes." Marcus Bales wrote: > > Perhaps it is true that no one would care enough to say anything of > > what > you THINK of the word "Jap", but it's clear that there are lots of > opinions about your USE of the word "Jap". If you kept what you think > of the word "Jap" to yourself, and also didn't use the word, then the > issue would not arise. But once you use the word you necessarily > open the issue of others' opinions of the word, the use of the word in > general, and your use of it in particular. Jonathan Penton wrote: > That's a valid argument. Of extreme curiosity to me is the fact that I > DID keep my opinion of the word "Jap" to myself, yet you assumed, for > reasons I'd be interested in hearing about, that you knew what that > opinion was. In fact, I have used the word only to verbally roll my > eyes at the debate surrounding it.< Part of the problem of taking what you think is an objective view is persuading your readers that you're doing so -- or at least that you're trying to. In this instance it seems as if you're defending the notion that the word "Jap" is non-pejorative, and not as if you're verbally rolling your eyes at the debate surrounding it -- especially when you say such things as: "It might technically be a wordsmithing issue, but until someone can say something I haven't heard 100 times in a bar, I ain't seein' no intellectualism in it." That seems straightforward in its view that the assertion that "Jap" is offensive is merely wordsmithing, and not intellectually supported at all. It seems straightforward in its view that "Jap" is non- pejorative. Jonathan Penton wrote: > ... you have assumed a "theory" when I have offered none.< It seems to me that you have indeed offered one, and the one you seem to me to have offered is that there is no good argument you've seen here or in a hundred bars that persuades you that "Jap" is a pejorative term. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 07:59:50 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Kazim Ali Subject: Kundiman In-Reply-To: <002501c51a61$37994a70$cd3758db@com747839ba04b> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi everyone, I thought you might like to know about the organization Kundiman, a wonderful new group promoting Asian-American poetry. This past year they sponsored a chapbook award in the name of Vincent Chin. Here's the URL: http://www.kundiman.org/index.php?id=3 According to Kundiman's website: "On June 19, 1982, in Detroit, Vincent Chin was beaten to death with a baseball bat by a man and his stepson. The two laid-off autoworkers mistook Chin for Japanese — an Asian group they blamed for the ailing U.S. auto industry. The assailants never served jail time, and later federal civil-rights courts acquitted them entirely of the crime. For many today, this is a rarely remembered footnote in American history. However, the tragedy of Vincent Chin marked an important change in how Asian Americans viewed themselves. It was the first time, according to APA advocates and academics, that people who traced their ancestry to different countries in Asia and the Pacific Islands crossed ethnic and socioeconomic lines to fight [politically] as a united group of Asian Pacific Americans. They were Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and Filipino; they were waiters, lawyers, and grandmothers who were moved to action by what happened to Vincent Chin. For the first time, Asian Americans banded together against the discrimination and racism directed toward the APA community.* Decades later, the need for Asian Americans to unite as a population and to project a voice into the cultural mainstream is as urgent as ever. In honor of Vincent Chin and this watershed moment in Asian American history, Kundiman and Manoa have established The Vincent Chin Memorial Chapbook Prize. This annual prize is an opportunity for both Kundiman and Manoa to support and spotlight the talent of an emerging Asian American poet, a new voice in the landscape of Asian American expression and power." I would also like to say that though I have not traditionally been very vocal on this list, I always read with interest the discussions that happen here. I'm really scandalized by the casual way that these hate-words appear in posts and title lines to posts. It's incendiary, it's rude, and not to repeat myself, it's frankly scandalous. I would very much like it to stop as it is creating an unfriendly, unsafe, racist environment. K __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 11:53:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Leland Winks Subject: Re: BushBrussels MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And long live the thought of Chairman Moo, glorious leader of bovine ruminants everywhere. Defend the labor camps, public executions, and popular-democratic organ harvests! This is some sad shit here. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Taylor Date: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 3:01 pm Subject: Re: BushBrussels > China is a Great Nation, and the US a dangerous Imperialist terrorist > nation - China and North Korea will not stand by and let the > Imperialistsinvade them. For this prurpose they have IMBs > > Dont forget the IBMS - you hit me - me hit you back. > > BOOOM!! > > Long live China! Death to Imperialism!! Long live Korea!! Long > live Iran!! > Long live Syria !! Death to Capitalism !! > > Dont listen to splitters or bourgeois pessimists. Defend against > US and > British military. > > Don't forget the crimes of US Imperialism. > > Workers of the World Unite!! > > The Mai Lai massacre to Abhu Graib > > Never forget the crimes. > > Richard Taylor > > Auckland - New Zealand > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christopher Leland Winks" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 10:45 AM > Subject: Re: BushBrussels > > > > Oh Richard, Richard, do for once try thinking before you type. > To wit, > > > > the Chinese are a great nation and a very > >> democratic -perhaps the most in the world despite anti-communist > >> propaganda - > > > > I suppose it's anti-communist propaganda that there was a Tienanmen > > Square massacre more than fifteen years ago perpetrated against > people> calling for China to be the "democratic" nation you claim > it to be. > > > > There are hundreds of rural revolts -- strikes, protests, etc. -- > > going on right now in China. I guess the grievances are fed by > anti- > > communist propaganda rather than poverty and the oppressive policies > > of local Communist Party officials, right? > > > > the\\china was attacked by the Japs in WW2 > > > > Japs! Such a lovely little epithet, and one that's been > subjected to > > some discussion lately on the list. Did you notice, Richard? > > > > never has China invaded another country (Tibet's > >> always a part > >> of China) > > > > The Tibetans might have another idea about that, but I suppose they > > don't matter much to you. I'm looking forward to hearing you > > write "Chechnya always a part of Russia." Oh yes, and wasn't > there a > > war between China and Vietnam about 25-30 years ago, and hasn't > > Vietnam always had historical grounds to fear China's hegemonism? > > > > never rained down massive tonnages of bombs, napalm, nerve > >> installed dictators only to have then overthrown as an excuse > for an > >> invasion etc or for purposes of destabilization - on the contrary > >> - China > >> has helped many countries economically > > > > Well, China also supported Jonas Savimbi's brutal war in Angola, > sent> arms to crush a (Maoist!) insurrection in Sri Lanka in the early > > 1970s, supported Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge, and stood idly by when > > thousands of its partisans were massacred in Indonesia in 1965. Not > > to speak of the millions of dead as a result of demented > policies like > > the "Great Leap Forward" and palace coups run amok like the "Great > > Proletarian Cultural Revolution," which as a few heretics noted > at the > > time, was neither proletarian, nor cultural, nor a revolution. > > > > > > -- > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > > > > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:04:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Leland Winks Subject: Re: racist abuse MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "And they still have ambitions" -- LOVE that one, after all, those tricky Japanese are shifty-eyed, inscrutable, slippery types, aren't they? You keep sliding deeper into your own ordure-flavored ice-cream mind, Richard. And I agree with Maria Damon -- I can't believe we're talking about racial/ethnic slurs as if the whole thing was an intellectual issue. Y'all ought to get out more often. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence Upton Date: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 9:51 am Subject: racist abuse > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Taylor > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 2:09 PM > Subject: Re: vaguely about the word jap > > >I agree overall - but I think it is a peccadilo - - lets not > forget what > the Japs did in WW2 - and they still have ambitions -- lets not > get too PC > about everything ... > > The Japanese who committed war crimes in WW2 are at the least > very old. > Many are dead and do not have ambitions by definition. > > I do not see that calling any still living by an offensive name is > justifiedmorally or of any advantage. At best it will create > discord. Calling all > Japanese by an offensive name is not acceptable. Calling > individuals by > racist names is not acceptable. If they are murderers, say > murderers etc > > It would be more appropriate to remember what was done to > Hiroshima and > Nagasaki, a war crime which has never been tried; ambitions to > repeat that > exercise somewhere - anywhere - remain with us; but I do not wish > to insult > all the people in the countries whose governments might develop > such plans; > and my own government is quite capable of doing appalling things. > I know > because they are doing appalling things. > > Using references to being PC or not being PC leads to confusion. > It muddies > the water and blurs the distinction between ridiculous activities and > thought through activies Take each issue and event on its merits > > In this case and in all cases, let the axiom be Let's not be > racist to *any > extent about *anything > > L > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:18:29 -0500 Reply-To: Lori Emerson Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lori Emerson Subject: Karasick & bissett | Seething Letters / Entwining Tomes Tour Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ::S e e t h i n g L e t t e r s / E n t w i n i n g T o m e s T o u r:: On March 2 at the Drake Hotel in Toronto Adeena Karasick will be presenting the Canadian premiere of her poetic trans'elation of the Sefer Yetzirah (the Kabbalistic Book of Creation) with special guest bill bissett. The show which premiered to a packed house at New York's St Marks Poetry Project on December 3rd last year is an amazing mixture of the modern and the archaic incorporating an intensely personal, brilliant, playful, linguistically original re-interpretation of this classic Kabbalistic text which appears in her recent book The House that Hijack Built from Talonbooks. As well there will be the collaged visual projections of Blaine Speigel, a musical accompaniment of both electronic and archaic Middle Eastern sound textures with dance music afterwards. There is no cover charge, there will be some food. Doors will open at 7:30pm, performances will begin at 8:15pm. We hope to see you all there. The Drake Hotel is at 1150 Queen St W. at Beaconsfield. For more information phone 416-703-7485 or email rkasher@sympatico.ca Adeena is available for interviews on both her poetry, her show and the Kabbalah. I've included jpgs of the two tarot cards in case you'd like to use them in any articles. On March 4 bill bissett and Adeena Karasick will be doing a major reading of their poetry including work from the Drake Hotel Show for the Exchange Rate Reading Series at the Rust Belt Bookstore 202 Allen Street in Buffalo, NY. They will be reading from their recent books narrativ enigma/rumours uv hurricane (bill bissett) and The House that Hijack Built (Adeena Karasick). Both are available for phone interviews or interviews at the show. -Lori Emerson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:32:28 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Jap/Jaap..P.O.I Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jaap was dutch pronounce yap as in whoe lot of yapping goin' on.. drn.... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:07:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: vaguely about the word jap In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed On the I-80 Thruway where it crosses Indiana (once home to the largest Ku Klux Klan organization) the food/and/gas stops are namesd for famous Hoosiers. One is the Ernie Pyle Rest Stop. Pyle was a correspondent during WWII in the Pacific--he gave us the phrase GI Joe, if I'm not mistaken. He was killed in 1944, as the bronze plaque informs us, "by a Jap sniper." Amazing. For short time endless monument. But I also remember colored-only bathrooms. Mark At 08:57 AM 2/23/2005, you wrote: >i'm not sure i understand this discussion. the term "jap" is >offensive, period. doesn't everyone know this? i can't believe it >has garnered serious debate here. > >At 11:56 AM +0000 2/23/05, Jonathan Penton wrote: >>If I asked every subscriber to this list, directly, if they cared what I >>think of the word "Jap," I bet not one could honestly say "yes." >> >>It might technically be a wordsmithing issue, but until someone can say >>something I haven't heard 100 times in a bar, I ain't seein' no >>intellectualism in it. >> >>-- >>Jonathan Penton >>http://www.unlikelystories.org > > >-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 14:10:52 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: More on language and politics In-Reply-To: <1247.4.240.153.57.1109159763.squirrel@webmail.safepages.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Jonathan, you wrote: >>If I asked every subscriber to this list, directly, if they cared what I think of the word "Jap," I bet not one could honestly say "yes."<< Depends on what you mean by "what I think about the word Jap," doesn't it? To the degree that what any of us thinks about a word like that reflects our ideas about race and language, not to mention history and politics on a broader scale as well, I'd be willing to bet lots of people on this list would care quite a lot about what an individual--you, me, whoever--thinks about that word. It consistently amazes me that there are people on this list (and I should be clear, Jonathan, that I am not saying you are one of them) who are shocked, absolutely shocked!, to find that the meanings of the words they use are beyond their control, that the words have histories and cultural contexts that are not always pretty, and these people resent it when they are asked to hold themselves accountable for their use of such words--and I don't care whether we're talking about a one-word epithet or the rhetorical undercurrent of a longer piece of discourse--whether by people for whom the words resonate in an immediate first-person way, as in Pamela's example of how some kids used the word Jap against her, or by people who care about the ways those words resonate period. It bothers me much less, in other words, that someone would use the word Jap--because I assume that people on this list are not openly and overtly racist and therefore I assume the word does not come from a position of explicitly racial hatred (especially in this case, where the word was initially used by Steve Dalachinsky, whose wife is Japanese), and because there are all kinds of reasons why that word might slip into what a person says--than that this person would resist, as some on this list have done and continue to do, being accountable and responsible for their use of that, or any other similar word. We are, after all, poets, and language is supposed to be our craft and calling, and part of being a writer is being willing to be held accountable, is to insist on your own responsibility, for what you write, even, and perhaps especially, when that responsibility is painful to take. Rich Newman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 14:40:30 -0500 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: the ottawa small press book fair Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT span-o (the small press action network - ottawa) presents the ottawa small press book fair spring edition will be happening Saturday, June 18th, 2005 in room 203 of the Jack Purcell Community Centre (on Elgin, at 320 Jack Purcell Lane). contact rob at rob@track0.com to sign up for a table, etc. General info: the ottawa small press book fair noon to 5pm (opens at 11am for exhibitors) admission free to the public. tables are $15 for exhibitors (payable to rob mclennan, c/o 858 Somerset St W, main floor, Ottawa Ontario K1R 6R7). full tables only. for catalog, exhibitors should send (on paper, not email) name of press, address, email, web address, contact person, type of publications, list of publications (with price), if submissions are being looked at, & any other pertinent info, including upcoming ottawa-area events (if any). due to the increased demand for table space, exhibitors are asked to confirm far earlier than usual. i.e. -- before, say, the day of the fair. the fair usually contains exhibitors with poetry books, novels, cookbooks, posters, t-shirts, graphic novels, comic books, magazines, scraps of paper, gum-ball machines with poems, 2x4s with text, etc. happens twice a year, started in 1994 by rob mclennan & James Spyker. now run by rob mclennan thru span-o. questions, rob@track0.com or 613 239 0337 more info on span-o at the span-o link of www.track0.com/rob_mclennan span-o: c/o 858 somerset street west, main floor, ottawa ontario canada k1r 6r7 free things can be mailed for fair distribution to the same address. we will not be selling things for folk who cant make it, sorry. also, always looking for volunteers to poster, move tables, that sort of thing. let me know if anyone able to do anything. thanks. & dont forget the toronto small press book fair, happening this spring: saturday may 21, 2005 from 11am to 5pm at trinity-st pauls centre, 427 bloor street west, toronto. email missklc@ckln.fm for info or www.torontosmallpressbookfair.org for more information, bother rob mclennan at 613 239 0337 or az421@freenet.carleton.ca / or check out the span-o link at www.track0.com/rob_mclennan ================ -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:23:01 -0800 Reply-To: bowering@sfu.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: racist abuse Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary MIME-Version: 1.0 >I agree overall - but I think it is a peccadilo - - lets not > forget what > the Japs did in WW2 - and they still have ambitions Get a sense of perspective. Who would worry about the Japanese when the USAmericans are in the world? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:02:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brett Fletcher Lauer Subject: Festival of New American Poets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE PSA FESTIVAL OF NEW AMERICAN POETS Two evenings of ten outstanding emerging poets each Wednesday, March 2nd 7:30pm Eric Baus Mark Bibbins Sherwin Bitsui Oni Buchanan Dan Chiasson Joshua Corey Thomas Sayers Ellis Miranda Field and National Chapbook Fellows: K.E. Allen Joshua Poteat Thursday, March 3rd 7:30pm Cathy Park Hong Ilya Kaminsky Adrian Matejka Chelsey Minnis Srikanth Reddy Spencer Reece Dorothea Tanning Lyrae Van Clief-Stefanon and New York Chapbook Fellows: Justin Goldberg Andrea Baker $10 for both nights / $7 PSA Members and Students $7 for one night / $5 PSA Members and Students. Tishman Auditorium, The New School 66 West 12th Street, NYC ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:05:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: sadness in normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed sadness in normal "the man next to me is howling into the phone" Wrong boolean value 'false' wrong value wrong value 101k true we see ROY NEILL, Karen's husband, a well-built man, watching the 11 transmit [#S{4l6 calls me. Roy runs cold water in the sink next to Lew and throws it ... His receptionist told me to call the next closest vet in Fairview and this I did quickly. This man and I had no relationship. ... rnings-L.Gregory/Page1.htm 56k true the child. And at 12 oclock the next evening it I heard that one Connor was dead - a man that I an officers servant lodged in the same house as me, and was ... I sat next to this pleasant Indian/British man who was THIS IS A NIGHTMARE&..WAKE ME UP PLEASE, I WANNA GO HOME &WHY ARE MY WINDOWS OPENED true Suddenly the air around me had changed, it was sharper, it snapped and cracked with electricity. Did she find herself sitting next to a wolf-man? ... My backpack was on the floor of the office, right next to my boots he shouted, and I did, and the bag sagged over with me. Look, said the nice man holding the ... Pitching, rolling, engine vibrations and the wind howling around the box She held onto the man next to her. He studied me, a half-smile on his apprehensive face ... .asp 54k true A man I assumed to be the bags owner gallantly bent down to help me up. << Previous Jessica #2 - Sophisticated Wooing Strategy, Next >> Jessica #4 ... <<PREVIOUS NEXT>> [DIARY ARCHIVES him to a full-length mirror and suck out his man-force. This This newer request was for me to be a female werewolf (werevixen ... Next to a garbage pit, a man talking on a he jumped up and started singing and doing a goofy, insane dance to, and looked at me as if he expected me to join the man next to me is howling into the phone and the wrong value and false === ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:21:42 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pamela Lu Subject: Re: Thanks For The Question, Alexander MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alexander, >>I've been intrigued by the responses, in that they support the idea = that >>the ultimate meaning of any communication lies not with the sender of = a >>message, but rather with the receiver...I may intend no slur or >>derogatory meaning, but you hear the word as such, and so, the = negative >>meaning is present. That's certainly one way of looking at it. But I'd say also that the = message of the communication is not a matter to be determined solely by either = sender intent or receiver experience. I don't think there's an either/or cause. = In the memoir/confessional moments I was relating, the message originated clearly with sender intent, then exploded in receiver experience. Also, = there is the third term of the language itself, which acts as a reservoir for larger historical/cultural forces that are out of either the sender's or = the receiver's immediate control. So even if sender and receiver believe = they are communicating strictly on a one-to-one personal level, they are still invoking broad cultural terms and associations inherent in language = itself. The nexus of sender, receiver, and language-as-public-medium is what = creates the complex meaning or confusion of the message. Hence the politics of speech. Not that this should stymie spontaneous and expressive = communication -- I dislike the strongarm PC police squad as much anyone else. I guess = I'm just saying that to use language effectively, one needs to understand as = much as possible the nuances of the language being used, and that may often include additional nuances found outside the disembodied text of the dictionary definition. Love language, love life! So in your original queries, I heard not the intention to slur or offend = a group, but an intention to downplay the significance of etymology and = history in language usage. Which ironically turned the political back over to = the personal for me, as I heard an undertone of abstract dismissal with = respect to my own experiences. >>And that point too I find interesting, for it suggests that the = reader's >>deconstruction of any piece reduces the piece to it's essence of >>meaning...at least from the reader's/listener's/viewer's point of = view.=20 >>Perhaps Jacques Derrida makes more sense than some would think. Ah but there is no essence of meaning, only excess! I confess now to my = lack of direct experience with Derrida's works, but the concept I always = gleaned from him (via the trickle-down education of my school years) was this = one of excess, of the text's accumulation of meaning over time and over the collective experience of readers. So that the text is outside the = author's control, and outside any one reader's control.. the text must be = respected for having a life of its own, which it has earned from being a part of = the material of culture. So if I've gotten even halfway close to inferring a Derridian notion here, yes I agree he is quite relevant to the topic... -Pam ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:59:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: DOROTHEA TANNING/ Festival of New American Poets In-Reply-To: <005901c519ea$f84f10a0$0401a8c0@netcom> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit At the sweet and usually notably ripe age of 95, is "Dorothea Tanning" still indeed "emerging", and as a poet - instead of a painter - no less? I love it. Somebody does have to claim the "Louise Bourgeois" role in poetry, n'est-ce pas? I tell you, those surrealists are something else! Marvelous. Or is somebody already faking that proud name? Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > THE PSA FESTIVAL OF NEW AMERICAN POETS > Two evenings of ten outstanding emerging poets each > > Wednesday, March 2nd 7:30pm > Eric Baus > Mark Bibbins > Sherwin Bitsui > Oni Buchanan > Dan Chiasson > Joshua Corey > Thomas Sayers Ellis > Miranda Field > and National Chapbook Fellows: > K.E. Allen > Joshua Poteat > > Thursday, March 3rd 7:30pm > Cathy Park Hong > Ilya Kaminsky > Adrian Matejka > Chelsey Minnis > Srikanth Reddy > Spencer Reece > Dorothea Tanning > Lyrae Van Clief-Stefanon > and New York Chapbook Fellows: > Justin Goldberg > Andrea Baker > > $10 for both nights / $7 PSA Members and Students > $7 for one night / $5 PSA Members and Students. > > Tishman Auditorium, The New School > 66 West 12th Street, NYC ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 12:56:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Taylor Subject: Re: racist abuse Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Thank you Monsieur Winks Me aglee witv 'ou - me nefer twust lellow face Jap - me will do businiss wid dem - I selly valublo bloook to a Jlappy collector and appleciated that muoochy. I wil also slell to Lanks - they plenty beeeeeeeg money - velly good. Me likey. Me sometime say nice thing to beeeeg Amelican Girngos and to devious Jalappies . be ware Lellow men - velly danger deyb ahve geeeg boobaas! Boom!! Richard Taylor Auckland - New Zealand richard.tylr@xtra.co.nz Book Collector/Writer --------- "Richard's mind is like an enormous ice cream."---------------------- Aspect Books www.abebooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Leland Winks" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 9:04 AM Subject: Re: racist abuse > "And they still have ambitions" -- LOVE that one, after all, those > tricky Japanese are shifty-eyed, inscrutable, slippery types, aren't > they? > > You keep sliding deeper into your own ordure-flavored ice-cream mind, > Richard. > > And I agree with Maria Damon -- I can't believe we're talking about > racial/ethnic slurs as if the whole thing was an intellectual issue. > Y'all ought to get out more often. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lawrence Upton > Date: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 9:51 am > Subject: racist abuse > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Richard Taylor >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Date: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 2:09 PM >> Subject: Re: vaguely about the word jap >> >> >I agree overall - but I think it is a peccadilo - - lets not >> forget what >> the Japs did in WW2 - and they still have ambitions -- lets not >> get too PC >> about everything ... >> >> The Japanese who committed war crimes in WW2 are at the least >> very old. >> Many are dead and do not have ambitions by definition. >> >> I do not see that calling any still living by an offensive name is >> justifiedmorally or of any advantage. At best it will create >> discord. Calling all >> Japanese by an offensive name is not acceptable. Calling >> individuals by >> racist names is not acceptable. If they are murderers, say >> murderers etc >> >> It would be more appropriate to remember what was done to >> Hiroshima and >> Nagasaki, a war crime which has never been tried; ambitions to >> repeat that >> exercise somewhere - anywhere - remain with us; but I do not wish >> to insult >> all the people in the countries whose governments might develop >> such plans; >> and my own government is quite capable of doing appalling things. >> I know >> because they are doing appalling things. >> >> Using references to being PC or not being PC leads to confusion. >> It muddies >> the water and blurs the distinction between ridiculous activities and >> thought through activies Take each issue and event on its merits >> >> In this case and in all cases, let the axiom be Let's not be >> racist to *any >> extent about *anything >> >> L >> > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:21:10 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: racist abuse In-Reply-To: <001b01c51ab3$45754a70$6b2756d2@com747839ba04b> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Richard, I know you think you're being funny. I've encountered this kind of wearisome humour soooo often, and calling its bigotry always garners the counter accusation that one is a humourless PC drone. Yawn. Personally, I like a bit of wit in my humour. Even a cruel wit. Aside from being totally offensive, this kind of witlessness is monumentally mindnumbingly dull. On 25/2/05 7:56 AM, "Richard Taylor" wrote: > Thank you Monsieur Winks > > Me aglee witv 'ou - me nefer twust lellow face Jap - me will do businiss > wid dem - I selly valublo bloook to a Jlappy collector and appleciated that > muoochy. I wil also slell to Lanks - they plenty beeeeeeeg money - velly > good. Me likey. > Me sometime say nice thing to beeeeg Amelican Girngos and to devious > Jalappies . > > be ware Lellow men - velly danger deyb ahve geeeg boobaas! Boom!! > > Richard Taylor Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 19:45:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Erica Kaufman Subject: BELLADONNA*- Feb. 24- Lyn Hejinian Reading and Talking with Anne Waldman Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed ENJOY BELLADONNA** with Lyn Hejinian READING her work...and TALKING with Anne Waldman * Thursday February 24, 7:00 p.m. back at ZINC BAR 90 W. Houston Street, NYC (btwn LaGuardia/Thompson, below Zamir fur shop) A $4-$10 donation is suggested. *** Lyn Hejinian is a poet, essayist, and translator; she was born in the San Francisco Bay Area and lives in Berkeley. Published collections of her writing include Writing is An Aid to Memory, My Life, Oxota: A Short Russian Novel, Leningrad (written in collaboration with Michael Davidson, Ron Silliman, and Barrett Watten), The Cell, The Cold of Poetry, and A Border Comedy; the University of California Press published a collection of her essays entitled The Language of Inquiry. Translations of her work have been published in France, Spain, Japan, Italy, Russia, Sweden, and Finland. Description and Xenia, two volumes of her translations from the work of the contemporary Russian poet Arkadii Dragomoshchenko, have been published by Sun and Moon Press. From 1976 - 1984, Hejinian was the editor of Tuumba Press and from 1981 to 1999 she was the co-editor (with Barrett Watten) of Poetics Journal. She is also the co-director (with Travis Ortiz) of Atelos, a literary project commissioning and publishing cross-genre work by poets; Atelos was nominated as one of the best independent literary presses by the Firecracker Awards in 2001. In the fall of 2000, she was elected the sixty-sixth Fellow of the Academy of American Poets. She teaches at the University of California, Berkeley. Anne Waldman, poet, performer, curator, teacher, editor, activist co-founded the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics at the Naropa University, where she is currently the Artistic Director of the Summer Writing Program and a Distinguished Professor of Poetics. Her poetry collections include Iovis: All Is Full of Jove, Marriage: A Sentence, In the Room of Never Grieve and her recent Penguin Poets serial poem, Structure of the World as Compared to a Bubble. With Ammiel Alcalay, she organized Poetry is News at the Poetry Project in NYC last February, to bring awareness against the war in Iraq and is planning a similar event for this April 16. She's recieved the Shelley Memorial Award, a Foundation for Contemporary Performance Arts award and was a fellow at the Civitella Ranieri Center in Umbria. She is currently an advisor to the Study Abroad On The Bowery Semester. *** Belladonna* is a feminist/innovative reading and publication series that promotes the work of women writers who are adventurous, experimental, politically involved, multi-form, multicultural, multi-gendered, delicious to talk about, unpredictable, dangerous with language. Belladonna* has featured such writers as Erica Hunt, Fanny Howe, Mei-mei Berssenbrugge, Susan Howe, Eileen Tabios, Cecilia Vicuña, Lisa Jarnot, Camille Roy, Julie Patton, Renee Gladman, Zhang Er, Lila Zemborain, Nicole Brossard, Abigail Child and Chris Tysh, among many other experimental and hybrid women writers. Beyond being a platform for women writers, the curators promote work that is experimental in form, connects with other art forms, and is socially/politically active in content. Alongside the readings, BELLADONNA* supports its artists by publishing commemorative pamphlets of their work on the night of the event. Please contact us (Rachel Levitsky and Erica Kaufman) at belladonnaseries@yahoo.com and/or visit the website if you would like to receive a catalog or hear more about our salons. http://www.belladonnaseries.blogspot.com/ This event is sponsored by CLMP, and Poets & Writers, Inc through a grant recieved from The New York State Council on the Arts; and by participants and contributions. **deadly nightshade, a cardiac and respiratory stimulant, having purplish-red flowers and black berries Belladonna* readings happen monthly between September and June. _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 19:48:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: racism / productive discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear List-members: a gentle reminder to please keep in mind that posts ought to be constructive, productive, and thoughtful contributions to the discussion--as outlined in so many words in the list's Welcome Message that I'll send out again in just a moment. All best, Lori Emerson listserv moderator ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 19:54:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: PLEASE REVIEW | welcome message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear all: please take a few minutes to review the guidelines, rules & regs. for the listserv as listed below--as always please contact me if you have any questions or concerns. all best, Lori listserv moderator --------------------------------------------------------- W E L C O M E T O T H E P O E T I C S L I S T S E R V Sponsored by the Poetics Program, Department of English, State University of New York at Buffalo Poetics List Moderator: Lori Emerson Please address all inquiries to: poetics@acsu.buffalo.edu (note that it may take up to a week to receive a response from us) Snail mail: Poetics Program c/o Lori Emerson, 438 Clemens Hall, SUNY Buffalo, NY 14260 Poetics Listserv Archive: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/poetics.html Electronic Poetry Center: http://epc.buffalo.edu C O N T E N T S: 1. About the Poetics List 2. Subscriptions 3. Subscription Options 4. To Unsubscribe 5. Posting to the List 6. Cautions This Welcome Message updated 11 January 2005. -------------------------------------------- Above the world-weary horizons New obstacles for exchange arise Or unfold, O ye postmasters! 1. About the Poetics List With the preceeding epigraph, the Poetics Listserv was founded by Charles Bernstein in late 1993. Now in its third incarnation, the list carries about 1000 subscribers worldwide, though all of these subscribers do not necessarily receive messages at any given time. A good number of other people read the Poetics List via our web archives (see web-address above). Our aim is to support, inform, and extend those directions in poetry that are committed to innovations, renovations, and investigations of form and/or/as content, to the questioning of received forms and styles, and to the creation of the otherwise unimagined, untried, unexpected, improbable, and impossible. We recognize that other lists may sponsor other possibilities for exchange in this still-new medium. We request that those participating in this forum keep in mind the specialized and focused nature of this project, and respect our decision to operate a moderated list. That is, the Poetics List exists to support and encourage divergent points of view on modern and contemporary poetry and poetics, and we are committed to do what is necessary to preserve this space for such dialog. Due to the high number of subscribers, we no longer maintain the open format with which the list began (at under 100 subscribers). 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Your account may become flooded and you may lose not only Poetics messages but other important mail. ------------------------- 4. To Unsubscribe To unsubscribe (or change any of your subscription options) go to the right-hand side of the screen at http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/poetics.html You may also may unsubscribe by sending a one-line email to with no "subject": unsub poetics If you are having difficulty unsubscribing, please note: sometimes your e-mail address may be changed slightly by your system administrator. If this happens you will not be able to send messages to Poetics or to unsubscribe, although you will continue to receive mail from the Poetics List. To avoid this problem, unsub using your old address, then return to your new address and contact the moderators at to resubscribe. If you find that it is not possible to unsub using your old address, please contact the moderators at for assistance. ---------------------------- 5. Posting to the List The Poetics List is a moderated list. All messages are reviewed by the moderators in keeping with the goals of the list as articulated in this Welcome Message (see section 1). Please note that while this list is primarily concerned with discussions of poetry and poetics, messages relating to politics and political activism, film, art, media, and so forth are also welcome. Feel free to query the list moderators if you are uncertain as to whether a message is appropriate. All correspondence with the moderators regarding submissions to the list remains confidential and should be directed to us at . We strongly encourage subscribers to post information on publications and reading series that they have coordinated, edited, published, or in which they appear. Such announcements constitute a core function of this list. Brief reviews of poetry events and publications are always welcome. 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I think most would agree that the listserv serves as a productive communal space for discussion and announcements; as such, subscribers who do not follow listserv policy on flaming will first receive a warning from the listserv moderator and should they fail to follow policy again they will immediately be placed on review. For reasons of basic security, we do not allow pseudononymous subscriptions. We also discourage the sending of HTML-formatted messages to the list. All messages intended for the Poetics List should be sent in Text-Only format. Please also do not send attachments or include extremely long documents (1,000+ words) in a post. Messages containing attachments will be presumed to be worm- or virus-carrying and will not be forwarded to the list. Please do not publish list postings without the express permission of the author. Posting on the list is a form of publication. Copyright for all material posted on Poetics remains with the author; material from this list and its archive may not be reproduced without the author's permission, beyond the standard rights accorded by "fair use" of published materials. As an outside maximum, we will accept no more than 2 messages per day from any one subscriber. Also, given that our goal is a manageable list (manageable both for moderators and subscribers), the list accepts 50 or fewer messages per day. Like all systems, the listserv will sometimes be down: if you feel your message has been delayed or lost, *please wait at least one day to see if it shows up*, then check the archive to be sure the message is not posted there; if you still feel there is a problem, you may wish to contact the moderators at . ----------------------------------------------------------------------- E N D O F P O E T I C S L I S T W E L C O M E M E S S A G E ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 12:09:17 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: racism / productive discussion In-Reply-To: <1109206138.421d247ae8e6f@mail1.buffalo.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 24/2/05 11:48 AM, "Poetics List Administration" wrote: > Dear List-members: a gentle reminder to please keep in mind that posts > ought to be constructive, productive, and thoughtful contributions to > the discussion--as outlined in so many words in the list's Welcome > Message that I'll send out again in just a moment. Apologies, Lori - I'll try to keep my finger off the button in moments of dudgeon. Sometimes boredom is a goading thing, but that's no excuse. A Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 20:13:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Frederick Sommer website! Comments: cc: chris sullivan Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Since Dorothea Tanning's name emerged this afternoon as an emerging poet, Chris Sullivan's blog reminds me of another genius in the surreal 'strip the chicken of its feathers to bare flesh' visual mode, that is Frederick Sommer, whose executors have bestowed his works with a foundation and a a website: http://www.fredericksommer.org/index.html If your visual vowels, etc. need cleaning, I recommend the site as a place to go! It might take awhile to find the chicken parts, but they are unforgettable. Stephen V ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 21:03:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Stephanie L. Young" Subject: ACT ART TOMORROW: Heriberto Yepez Comments: To: English Grad Students In-Reply-To: <4214EC15.3060306@mills.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit or tonight, depending on when you get this email, don't miss Tijuana writer and theorist HERIBERTO YEPEZ reading this Thursday night, FEBRUARY 24 in the Mills Hall Living Room @ 7:00 (w/ a reception to follow) Among poets and writers who blog, Mexican writer and translator Heriberto Yèpez is one of the most provocative voices, writing in both Spanish and English and about/at the boundary of each language. Relentless in his questioning of both totalitarian states and the role of the poet/cultural worker, Heriberto’s aphorisms are an unsettling salve for the global conditions we find ourselves in: “Poetry is the power the writer has; the power s/h/e needs to fight, this power within, not the power we invent as not-related-to-me, the power-of-the-other, the one I can criticize to be heroic, to be a Poet. Write against your own act.” Currently a professor of Philosophy at UABC-Tijuana, Yèpez is the author of several books in Spanish writes in Mexico City. Some of his writing in English has appeared in U.S. magazines, including Tripwire, Shark and XCP. He has performed and read at various U.S. conferences, including Poetry in a Time of Crisis at the UC Santa Cruz, and the recent Cabinet of the Muses series, sponsored in part by UC Berkeley and the LAB. You can find him online at http://www.hyepez.blogspot.com/ and http://mexperimental.blogspot.com/ Also coming up in the ACT ART series . . . GAYE CHAN & NANDITA SHARMA Thursday MARCH 17 Mills Hall Living Room, 7:00 p.m. THE YES MEN Thursday APRIL 14 Lisser Theater, 7:00 p.m. And CONTEMPORARY WRITER SERIES also of interest . . . JENA OSMAN Tuesday MARCH 8 Mills Hall Living Room, 5:30-7:00 CECILIA VICUNA Tuesday APRIL 12 Mills Hall Living Room, 5:30-7:00 ACT ART is funded in part by the James Irvine Foundation, the Contemporary Writers Series, Poets & Writers, Inc. through a grant it has received from the Hearst Foundation, and 'A 'A Arts. For more information: 510-430-3130 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 00:22:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: ** Advertise in March Boog City** Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Boog City's March issue is going to press on Fri. March 4, and our discount ad rate is here to stay. We are once again offering a 50% discount on our 1/8-page ads, cutting them from $60 to $30. (The discount rate also applies to larger ads.) Advertise your small press's newest publications, your own titles, your band's new album, your label's new releases, or which poets are on the juice. Ads must be in by Wed., March 2 (and please reserve space ASAP). (We're also cool with donations, real cool.) Issue will be distributed on Sat. March 5. Email editor@boogcity.com or call 212-842-BOOG(2664) for more information. thanks, David -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 00:42:40 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: George Bowering MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George-- I have been trying to reach you numerous times via back channel. Can you turn off your anti-American e-mail filter so I can contact you? Have season length Blue Jackets tickets for you good for the rest of this year. I need yr address. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 00:51:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: THIS FRIDAY IN MA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed This Friday, February 25th at 8:00 P.M. Noah Eli Gordon & Dorothea Lasky Amherst Books 8 Main Street, Amherst MA (413) 256-1547 more info: http://www.amherstbooks.com/Events/eventsfebruary2005.html Gordon is author of The Frequencies & The Area of Sound Called the Subtone. Lasky's poems have appeared in 6X6, Blue Mesa Review, Phoebe, Lungfull!, Castagraf & are forthcoming in Boston Review. Two chapbooks, Alphabets and Portraits & Hatmaker's Wife are forthcoming. _____________________________________________________________________ Here are a few poems by Dorothea Lasky The first lesson Earth and earth make air. Air and air make fire. Water and fire make Air, fire, and fire Or fire, air, and fire. Depending on how you look at it. The house on the edge Was painted in purple. And there were shells in it And lacy things. “Stability is a ghost.” he had said to me. We were naked. But still silence is a globe too Of unhaloed train light. The light in the street Is made of purple, heather, and finer things. And the light is yellow. And it takes my time to look at it. _____________________________________________________________________ The Sea Goddesses are Pulling in the Shells in Pink and Green I almost had a run-in with the nurse. It would have been just me and the nurse! She has a beautiful face I’m sure. You have a beautiful face, but you must know that. My little animal Coming to me now so clearly. Everything you do alone Must be made out of wood. The wood glove of dawn. The wood pies the sun eats On a luncheon hill With the friends of God He gets so clearly along with. But why must we stop with economy? The wood pies of Bernadette Mayer are fancy, too. Even I have known love that was fancy. But it was for an afternoon and the sun was truly coming in. _____________________________________________________________________________ The Second Lesson, the Second Appurtenance In your mouth the soul gapes out. The dogs gape out. The men eat grapes. In your rib, a bird looks out. The bird is an airbird. Scratch its head. It is holy. In your head is the smallest lion that has ever lived. Take it out and give it air. It is dark and damp in your head. Your brain eats away at the lion. Outside your body is a set of bleachers. Look across them, but don’t look at the people. Trick the men to do sleeping, caress the feet of the women. For the women are the bodies that will make you come into being. You will not know this for a long time. You will sit stupidly and drink milk. ______________________________________________________________________________ More Dorothea Lasky here: http://www.fifthstreetreview.com/greatstaffing.htm http://www.moriapoetry.com/lasky.html http://www.canwehaveourballback.com/14lasky.htm ______________________________________________________________________________ Here are a few poems by Noah Eli Gordon: http://www.analogous.net/eligordon.html http://www.dcpoetry.com/anth2004/gordon.htm http://www.wordforword.info/vol5/Gordon.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 00:29:39 -0500 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: A Vidas for Rumble MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As you requested I decided on a Vidas instead of a Razo, enjoy-- ------------- Vidas Ken Rumble, was from the south, a practicioner of the Carolinas, and had close to one thousand women spread over five counties with two primary juristictions. He had brothers named G and C each of whom he treated with vigor, glee and strong offence as if they were Titan or some other methane gas covered planet to tell jokes of. One of those who sang for him, his joglar, Lester, was a clever woman dressed as a man in sheeps clothing of an undeterminable sex near an unprotected open fire pit. Ken Rumble treated his brothers as if a drug using president trying not to practise racial profiling by using a gregorian educational calendar from the early 1800's, a favour which was returned at times earlier in his days. For this reason, while travelling he always rode in the best of transport to alleviate fears of missive inadequacy and could oft be found sulking in a dirty part of town absent of verse. Ken Rumble boasted a valiancy of such strength that he had no need to use his wits and therefore oft found himself at the Late Night drive thru window at Taco Bell instead of eating a home cooked meal with one of his lovelies. A good singer, troubadour, and pancake maker he was, nevertheless very faithless. And, unless rubbed elsewhere, he rubbed elbows with the Cathars of his day. This was quite effective and lead to a series of peacefully sweet cansos and a general lack of sirventes. Ken Rumble, for many of the reasons above, made this cobla to share with all and it goes like this: Communion I crept through your neighbor's yard, careful not to trip the security lights your father installed. Balanced on a nail below your window, I tapped the screen until you slid it up and I slipped in like a burglar. We didn't speak. We pushed off our clothes, lost in learning the circular motion of falling and rising hips. I read your body in the dark with my fingers, tongue, thighs, and palms. The rug burned my knees, your back. We bit our lips, careful not to make a sound, our moans quiet, shallow panting. For months, we watched lights from cars on the road sweep back and forth across the ceiling like searchlights peering through the night. Several hours later, intoxicated on the smell of sex, mothballs, and Chanel, I crept out like a thief, walked home under streetlight after streetlight after streetlight after streetlight and in school I nodded to you in the hall, walked the other direction, thinking of the bottle of your father's vodka I took that first night. I didn't understand you were teaching me a language: grammar, punctuation, tense, person, possession, agreement, case, infinitive, subject, predicate, and plural. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 22:33:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Lewis LaCook Subject: from The Golden Path Comments: cc: Mindy Bender , Kathryn Dean-Dielman , Michael Kapalin , Mary Kay , mary kay , karen lemley , list@netbehaviour.org, netbehaviour , rhizome , Tom Suhar , Matt Suleski , matt swarthout , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The difference between Caleb and Jeran is. Honey Nut Cheerios open on a heartbeat buckling. Mary snores sprawled across those lossy climates. I'll make you read this in certain units that accrete and sound like struts. Rat's always pushing at the top of his cage. Ed is starting a sentence that contains several nicknames and cultural references. My wifey rattles gravel I. Tao like what's sour in under rose petals, in under the rose petals in a box. Do a short line. Smoke a bowl. My wifey like the Tao with emotions is an Ohio girl. Like a tom(morrow fragrant with tapestries, )boy, with smiles that curl around you, tickle you sloped, tough like folly but lithe with consonance. Tao skull lurking, doll bulls in frames of Memphis. My wifey is furry with hope. Rough, like a raw honey lozenge. ===== *************************************************************************** Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://www.lewislacook.com/||| Web Programmer|||http://www.corporatepa.com/||| XanaxPop:Mobile Poem Blog-> http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/ Collective Writing Projects--> The Wiki--> http://www.lewislacook.com/wiki/ Appendix M ->http://www.lewislacook.com/AppendixM/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 22:40:22 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Accept-Encoding 0E 00 28 00 C5 25 74 Comments: cc: Mindy Bender , Kathryn Dean-Dielman , Michael Kapalin , Mary Kay , mary kay , karen lemley , list@netbehaviour.org, netbehaviour , rhizome , Tom Suhar , Matt Suleski , matt swarthout , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ..f....@+9....E....!@........eA....*.P..h...R.P.......GET /ds/AAAVEBBUYBB5/Feb05_FCE/FC05_mo_nb499toshiba_x_728x90_v1_x.swf?clickTag1=http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=124e48qrt/M=330594.5870030.7006968.313120/D=mail/S=150500004:N/EXP=1109313267/A=2561290/R=0/*http://clk.atdmt.com/go/yhxxxbb50320000080ave/direct;wi.728;hi.90;ai.6052439;ct.1/01&clickTag=http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=124e48qrt/M=330594.5870030.7006968.313120/D=mail/S=150500004:N/EXP=1109313267/A=2561290/R=0/*http://clk.atdmt.com/go/yhxxxbb50320000080ave/direct;wi.728;hi.90;ai.6052439;ct.1/01 HTTP/1.1..Host: spe.atdmt.com..User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041107 Firefox/1.0..Accept: text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5..Accept-Language: en-us,en;q=0.5...e.P.0.:......P...z'..HTTP/1.1 302 Found..Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 06:35:42 GMT..P3P: policyref="http://p3p.yahoo.com/w3c/p3p.xml", CP="CAO DSP COR CUR ADM DEV TAI PSA PSD IVAi IVDi CONi TELo OTPi OUR DELi SAMi OTRi UNRi PUBi IND PHY ONL UNI PUR FIN COM NAV INT DEM CNT STA POL HEA PRE GOV"..Location: http://us.f305.mail.yahoo.com/ym/KioskAB?YY=72384..Connection: close..Transfer-Encoding: chunked..Content-Type: text/plain..Set-Cookie: YAB.Iemail=Cc=%22Mindy+Bender%22+%3cirkenickychips@yahoo.com%3e,+%22: gzip,deflate..Accept-Charset: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7..Keep-Alive: 300..Connection: keep-alive..Referer: http://view.atdmt.com/AVE/iview/yhxxxbb50320000080ave/direct;wi.728;hi.90/01/&time=1109226867437525?click=http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=124e48qrt/M=330594.5870030.7006968.313120/D=mail/S=150500004:N/EXP=1109313267/A=2561290/R=0/*..Cookie: AA002=1095278396-553666905/1096487713... .@+9....f.....E...=;@.2.6nD......e.P.,.u....."P....-..HTTP/1.1 200 OK..Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 06:35:24 GMT..P3P: policyref="http://p3p.yahoo.com/w3c/p3p.xml", CP="CAO DSP COR CUR ADM DEV TAI PSA PSD IVAi IVDi CONi TELo OTPi OUR DELi SAMi OTRi UNRi PUBi IND PHY ONL UNI PUR FIN COM NAV INT DEM CNT STA POL HEA PRE GOV"..Cache-Control: private..Connection: close..Transfer-Encoding: chunked..Content-Type: text/html..Content-Encoding: gzip....2b19 .............]yw.F..[zo.......x..$.#.V...XK...... 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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 02:15:08 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit take the i out for a ride put the o backwards in no name the u in & out & thru add the e silently say a then ja jap jaap cirque de poesie sey hey.... goin' to be 3:00...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 06:59:44 -0500 Reply-To: richard.j.newman@verizon.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Re: racist abuse In-Reply-To: <001b01c51ab3$45754a70$6b2756d2@com747839ba04b> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Richard Taylor wrote: >>Me aglee witv 'ou - me nefer twust lellow face Jap - me will do businiss wid dem - I selly valublo bloook to a Jlappy collector and appleciated that muoochy. I wil also slell to Lanks - they plenty beeeeeeeg money - velly good. Me likey. Me sometime say nice thing to beeeeg Amelican Girngos and to devious Jalappies . be ware Lellow men - velly danger deyb ahve geeeg boobaas! Boom!!<< This really does cross a line, and I am glad the List Administrator has issued her "gentle reminder," though it's hard to see what Richard Taylor has done in this post as gentle or funny or witty or as anything other than blatantly racist, even taking into account that it is probably intended as a witheringly dismissive response to Christopher Leland Winks'--deservedly in my opinion--hard-hitting response to Taylor's previous post about the Japanese still having "ambitions." It did seem to me that a discussion worth having--about language and meaning (Pamela's latest response to Alex), about a writer's responsibility to language and, by implication, to audience as well, and about the nature of "wordsmithing" (Jonathan Penton's question and my response), and maybe there were other threads that I have missed (I haven't been reading everything)--was beginning to emerge here, and it would be a shame if Richard Taylor's failed attempt at whatever he thought he was attempting (I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he did not mean this as a successful example of race baiting) diverted or short-circuited what people were starting to say. Rich Newman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 21:30:06 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Gaijin vs. Gai Koku Jin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Interestingly enough, these same issues come up among foreign residents in Japan who are confronted with "Japanese Only" signs on bath houses, barber shops, and other public venues, and suffer sexism, racism, and every other kind of ism in the job market as they attempt to live productive lives here. You may keep up with the continuing debate about this problem by taking a look at the Japan Times on-line version. We're not talking just about white folks from the U.S. and the U.K., but about Chinese, Koreans, Africans, Saudi-Arabians, Iranians, Iraqis,Brazilians, etc. etc. Moreover, there are the "hidden holocausts" that happened from 1910--1945 in Korea and for about the same period of time in China, complete with forced prostitution, enslavement, vivisection, biological warfare, testing of biological agents on whole villages, attempted genocide, etc., etc. the extent of which is still being uncovered, and none of which the Japanese government has begun to apologise for. There's also the matter of Yasukuni Shrine, which Koizumi insists on visiting to honor the war dead. This sounds reasonable enough, until one sees the place for oneself--then it's obvious that this is a shrine dedicated to war, and to the Japanese martial spirit, with weapons on display, etc. etc. Far from condemning war, the keepers of this shrine praise it, offering daily prayers to Tojo and the rest. A bit like the Germans maintaining a shrine to Hitler. If you look around you'll see many of those Old Ones from WWII that Lawrence thinks has passed on to whatever glory awaits them clapping their hands, bowing their heads, throwing their coins. The Japanese have the longest life-expectancy in the world, and many of those folks are still here fighting the war in their heads. I know because I'ive encountered them on the trains and in the streets and heard from their lips about the "special role in history" of the Japanese People. "Nihon #1!" The Japanese have no qualms about being racist and about throwing around racist epithets, it's just a fact of life here. You can see it on television, hear it on the radio, read it in the textbooks, hear it from the mouths of the children. They're not going to change. That, however, doesn't condone the use of hateful epithets like "Jap" or like "gaijin," or from the practice of governmentally sanctioned discrimination based on race, sex, age, etc. Indeed, we, as non-Japanese, must refrain from doing what the Japanese seem to need to do to us. Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 08:55:42 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Venezuelans Object To U.S. Attempts To Assassinate Their President Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Venezuelans Object To U.S. Attempts To Assassinate Their President: Roger Noriega Says God Told Him To Murder Chavez: Cheney Says He Has No Connection To 'Operation Mongoose II': American Opinion Polls---"Hugo Who?!?" By GEDDA DATOIL They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. ".....at a time when I am speaking to you about the paradox of desire -- in the sense that different goods obscure it -- you can hear outside the awful language of power. There's no point in asking whether they are sincere or hypocritical, whether they want peace of whether they calculate the risks. The dominating impression as such a moment is that something that may pass for a prescribed good; information addresses and captures impotent crowds to whom it is poured forth like a liquor that leaves them dazed as they move toward the slaughter house. One might even ask if one would allow the cataclysm to occur without first giving free reign to this hubbub of voices...." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:36:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: i. m. Simone Simon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Simone Simon with near-feline features(!) returning as=20 Irena-- self-appointed guardian angel for all the lonely daughters of eternally preoccupied parents -Gerald Schwartz ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:38:14 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: racist abuse..................................................making space MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the other man's freedom." --_Clarence Darrow_ (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/c/clarence_darrow.html) First, I also agree with Maria Damon, but then part of me also wants to talk about WHAT drives people to their bigotry. By the way, I was happy Kazim Ali posted the _Kundiman_ (http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0502&L=poetics&D=1&O=D&F=&S=&P=75566) link for us in the middle of all this hate. And frankly I don't give a fuck if anyone thinks the jokes weren't hate driven, yes they certainly were. (if you didn't check out the _Kundiman_ (http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0502&L=poetics&D=1&O=D&F=&S=&P=75566) link, please do so...posted yesterday) The extra step after identification of bigotry should always be Why? What even, and How does that come out of you? How are you not filtered, and maybe to say Good, I'm glad you're not filtered, you're really THAT far out there in accepting these feelings you have that it comes out of you so easily. But I think Why is really the hard one. In fact Why could take a whole lot of therapy to understand. I've experienced shades of homophobia on this List more than once, and frankly I'm fascinated by it. Not just by the bigotry itself as it occurs, but the ease of it, the gentle knock on the door the hammer is capable of to get the door open. This is due in part to the general codes that still exist, regardless of any cultural leaps we think we've made. It kind of bugs me how people think that JUST because there are TV programs with positive Queer or Black or Asian characters that some great milestone has been hit. Frankly, I believe it just means that TV has made progress in its own way with the world, but we really need to check in with one another before ever accepting a TV marker. The fucking antigay vote for the president was proof that Will & Grace could air 24 hours a day on all stations and there would still be hatred for fags and dykes. (An aside, I loathe the Will & Grace show, and don't like TV in general to be honest. So maybe that's why I'm so down on accepting the way TV is used as a cultural marker. But the Will & Grace show in particular has such class issues that it sets my hair on fire with rage.) But getting a bigot to taste his own medicine is my favorite tactic, especially since it's so deliciously unexpected. After that it would be nice to figure out what the hell is going on. MOST IMPORTANT is that bigots get another step, a good step, in that they really NEED to understand that being ignorant of what is going on inside them can be dealt with, and that AFTER it is that they can be alive in the world again without the stigma. In fact, it's really fucking ESSENTIAL that we do this! WE NEED TO make room for people to CHANGE! And maybe, just maybe, in order to do that, we need to allow people the space to vent, to say it all. Just say it! One of the things that has come up in this discussion is how we need to understand how important the things we say are. Well I say something a little different in that, on the other side, the listening side, we need to not be so AFRAID of the language. As long as no one is getting their head bashed in, then let's hear, and listen. And discuss our reactions to what we're taking in. We're living in a time with leaders who really are sanctifying hate. It's been given the holy seal of approval. Anyway, this is long enough of a post, CAConrad _http://phillysound.blogspot.com_ (http://phillysound.blogspot.com) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 01:06:42 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: A Question Of Parity MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A fact: the Japanese who go abroad to the U.S.--and from what I understand the U.K.-- are afforded every benefit in terms of employment and protection of personal rights at the workplace, in matters of sexual harassment, and against other forms of discrimination, etc., but these protections are not extended to foreign workers (including second and third generation Japanese-Americans) in Japan. I (as well as 100's of workers here) believe that there should be parity in this matter. These are not racist observations, this is simply a fact that anyone on this list can verify. The Japanese make absolutely no beans about it, they discriminate on the basis of what they perceive as race, and not only in private businesses, but in government positions as well. Just recently a Chinese woman who was raised in Japan and is perfectly bilingual and acculturated as a Japanese, was not allowed to sit for a civil service exam for a position in local government. The reason? She is not Japanese! There are many many examples of this, but apparently American government is not interested enough to protest. I believe that the butter should be spread both ways. It's only fair. In fact, with the 0 population growth in Japan, it would behoove the Japanese government to change immigration and employment laws to allow foreign workers more rights and more protections. Recently, I heard one Japanese robotics expert say that Japan is pressing forward to become a world leader in robotics because of a lack of workers in the future. Of course, he meant Japanese workers--apparently the only kind! Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 12:12:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Shankar, Ravi (English)" Subject: Visiting Sri Lankan Writer at Bowery Poetry Club, Friday, March 4th, 5:00 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =93MEMORIES & MIGRATIONS=94 Poetry and music weave together as Sri Lankan writer Pireeni Sundaralingam and Irish violinist Colm O=92Riain team up to explore a rich tapestry of sound from Indian raag to Irish ballads, from Bayou blues to gypsy jazz. http://www.wordandviolin.com Bowery Poetry Club 5:00 =96 5:30pm Friday 4 March Admission free 308 Bowery @ Bleecker F train to Second Ave | 6 train to Bleecker 212-614-0505 A PEN USA Rosenthal Fellow, Pireeni was recently named as one of =93America's Emerging Writers" by the literary journal Ploughshares. Born in Sri Lanka and educated at Oxford, Pireeni currently lives in San Francisco. Her poetry addresses the issues of civil war and exile, examining such universal themes as the loss of land and language and has been published in anthologies and journals in the USA, Ireland and England. Later this year her work will be featured in the documentary film "Veil of Silence" and the International Museum of Women. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 12:37:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hsn Subject: Re: racist abuse..................................................making space In-Reply-To: <197.393d0e35.2f4f4ee6@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 2/24/05 10:38 AM, "Craig Allen Conrad" wrote: >> WE NEED TO make room for people to CHANGE! And maybe, just maybe, in order to do that, we need to allow people the space to vent, to say it all. Just say it! ...One of the things that has come up in this discussion is how we need to understand how important the things we say are...Well I say something a little different in that, on the other side, the listening side, we need to not be so AFRAID of the language. As long as no one is getting their head bashed in, then let's hear, and listen. And discuss our reactions to what we're taking in.<< uhuh! hassen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 13:56:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Post-Soviet Culture Theory at Duke this weekend Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Post-Soviet Culture Theory Duke University February 25-26, 2005 http://www.duke.edu/~rcp4/schedule.html friday feb 25 / 2 =96 5 pm opening remarks: Fredric Jameson & Jonathan Flatley moderator, Martin Miller (Duke University, History) Susan Buck-Morss (Cornell University, Government) =93The Post-Soviet Condition=94 Oksana Gavrishina (Russian State University for the Humanities, History and= =20 Theory of Culture ) "Post-Soviet Times - Soviet Lives: Photography and the Everyday" Oleg Aronson (Institute of Philosophy, Russian Academy of Sciences) =93Post-Soviet Art: the Ethics of Injustice=94 discussant: Michael Hardt (Duke University, Literature) Sokurov, Father and Son 2003 saturday feb 26 / 10 pm - 12 pm moderator: Anna Krylova (Duke University, History) Fredric Jameson (Duke University, Literature =93Sokurov and the Late Modern=94 John MacKay (Yale University, Slavic) =93Documentary and the (Post-)Communist Decoding of Reality=94 discussants: Negar Mottahedeh (Duke University), Simon Cook (Duke= University) 2 pm =96 5pm moderator: Jehanne Gheith (Duke University, Slavic) Barrett Watten (Wayne State University, English) "Cold War Universals and the Poetics of Displacement" Jonathan Flatley (Wayne State University, English) =93A Parade of Liquidated Feelings=94 Elena Petrovskaya (Institute of Philosophy, Russian Academy of Sciences;=20 Humanities Center, Cornell) =93The Anonymous Community=94 discussant: Edna Andrews (Duke University, Slavic) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 13:59:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! Comments: To: kevin thurston Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 here's mine: acrimony! but can dis easy fret grant his insistence? justice kan limp money now! och! por qua reviled=20 so tupperwarelike. u vow=20 with x-elent wisdom, zohar. christophe casamassima www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:28:30 -0800 Reply-To: bowering@sfu.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Venezuelans Object To U.S. Attempts To Assassinate Their President Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary MIME-Version: 1.0 Venezuelans Object To U.S. Attempts To Assassinate Their President: : > American Opinion Polls---"Hugo Who?!?" > What's the complaint? The US is always killing foreign presidents that US citizens dont know. Even when they dont show their breasts on TV. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 13:40:17 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: racist abuse..................................................making space In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Gruff, You can learn to defeat anxiety by replacing victim words with =93power=94= =20 language. Power language means using words that promote your feelings=20 of self-worth and personal power We take the risk out of finding a safe place to make your online=20 medical decisions. your health, safety, and shopping experience are=20 very important to us. We fully comply with International law re: controlled drugs. Best regards, caprice=20= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:34:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: Venezuelans Object To U.S. Attempts To Assassinate Their President Comments: To: bowering@sfu.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, and one last name W. has to stagger to pronounce! > Venezuelans Object To U.S. Attempts To Assassinate Their President: > : >> American Opinion Polls---"Hugo Who?!?" >> > > What's the complaint? The US is always killing foreign presidents that US > citizens dont know. Even when they dont show their breasts on TV. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:42:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit anemia breaks copse' diffi/cult eldest fearsome go-ahead haggle iconographer jiggle kennel lucre mono-po/list's noblemen oracle passwords regale shock absorbers' tango unclasp vagrant wastrels, xenophobic yah-weh zygotes. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:12:19 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dustin Williamson Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! In-Reply-To: <20050224185923.E659913F45@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit another bad composition describing every failed greatness—how it just keeps limiting my nominal observations purposefully—qualified restlessness settled this uneven vision, “Wisconsin xenophobia.” yours, Zack ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:26:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: A Question Of Parity In-Reply-To: <9V61wz32.1109261202.6871400.ahadada@gol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I have to back Jesse on this; I found the same conditions in Fukuoka. But I'd love to get back to either talking about poetry/poetics and/or poetry/poetics presentations here - or a discussion, which might be useful, why issues of race etc. come up so often on this list. It's not endemic; it's not happening on others, but it seems to veer in Poetics' direction. Meanwhile, after some discussions in Normal, I'd really like to know what people think of Swinburne; I find him disturbing in a way that's deeply uncomfortable, valuable as a result. - Alan nettext http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:27:57 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: abc Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ambit cedar exfug hijinked lomein op queers tube vow x my z drn... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:34:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cheryl Pallant Subject: a-z MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yonder Zonging A boy came deliberately evoking far gaining height in just kicking lightly mud, not openly pretentious, quasi-restless, so the underling veered west=20 extremely yonder zong. Boy careened drowsy evidently from gambling his inner juice kicked long mentally neutered, openly presuming querulous rank so the users valued weather exonerating youthful zigzags. Combining death embellished flukes going honorably in jestful knacks like masterful notes over peppered quandaries reasonably secure to understand value without extreme yonder zongs. Detrimentally exacting flukes gained height inside jocular kicks labored monthly, not overly presumptuous, quiet, regardless, so timidly useless, venerated with excessive yearly zeitgeist. Every far-flung government hides inside jocular kicks limited masterless, nixing, overtly precarious, quaintly regarded, seasonally timorous until vexed with excessive yawns zonging. Gladly, hideous, innocuous, jocund, kicked limp moreover near open plans quotably regarding sudden times used vexedly with executive yodeling zebras. However, insiders joke, knock limp motley namesakes over pernicious queasy regrets sudden times until veering west yodeling zestfully. Inversely, jumpers' knees lie migrantly near open planters quadruplicating returns suddenly to us versions without executive yodeling zebras. Intuitively, justly kept lemurs must never overwhelm precise qualitative returns sent to us variously withering exampled young zongs. Just keep leaping mightily near overt prayers quietly returning songs to us versively with younger zigs. Kick, lean, mix, neuter, own, peek, quaver, reason, secrete, time, use, vivify, wizen, yoke, zag. Labor more next offers precarious quarterly reiterations, suddenly timely, usefully vilified, wherever yokes zag. Moreover, nearby offices past qualified rent sued to useless vented wills yoke zag. Never overly presumptuous, quashed restless sudden underneath veering wisely extreme yonder zong. Over, past, respited, quatrained, seasoned, useless, valued, weathered, extreme younger zong. Perhaps, quintessentially reasonably secure to understand value without excessive yonder zongs. Quantum rants sentences tips underwhelmingly versatile wryly exceeding yoking zeal. Robbed securely to understand vilifying without exceeding yonder zongs. Sanguine, timid, useful, venting without exonerated yawns zooming. To us, veering west excessively yawning zongs. Useless value when exceeding yodeling zinging. Vaulted with exceptional youth zinging. Without exceeding youthful zongs. Exceptional yodeling zinging. You zinging. Zero.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:41:38 -0500 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: Risky Propositions by Frank Davey Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT new from above/ground press Risky Propositions by Frank Davey $4 Dog Prizes Dog prizes do not resemble literary prizes. Dog prizes regulate the size, shape and style of dogs. They maintain traditional breed standards. To have your pet win the grand prize at a dog show is not at all like winning a literary prize. To win a dog prize it helps to have a traditional friend on the judging panel. It helps that throughout the year you deliver coffee to judges when you see them sitting at ringside. It helps that you advertise your dog as best' in numerous canine magazines. Literary value is quite different from kennel-club breed standards, even though officially recognized' does mean, in doggy language, canonical.' The only dogs considered for the grand prize are those that are entered, which leaves a lot of inglorious dogs named Milton languishing at firesides. It helps that you sit with prospective judges and chat about structural problems in your competition. About them not being born the colour they display. About them using illegal substances. Or that you observe sagely and loudly that some move too slowly. That they are well regarded only in other countries, or in rural communities. It helps to parade your pet and his trophies through crowds where judges congregate. It helps to go to dog parties. To go to the right shows. To introduce your dog in a purely social tail-wagging way to influential breeders. To talk frequently about good breeding. Literary prizes are intractable because editors, ex-editors, schoolmates, and envious competitors never sit on judging panels. When a book is called a dog, it makes prize-winning less likely. The kennel club forbids your family members from judging your dog. Forbids judges who once sold you a dog. Forbids judges who recently have paid you to exhibit their own dogs. But it does not forbid ex-spouses, or your son's judge girl-friend, or judges whose dogs compete with yours, or judges who you once paid to exhibit your dog, or judges who were once your kennel-help. It helps to encourage your kennel help and your children's lovers to become judges. It helps to be a judge yourself and to make a deal with a judge who would also like his dog to win. It is therefore both easier and more difficult to win a dog prize than a literary prize. ===== Frank Davey, once of Tish fame, is editor of Open Letter and author of various books. His full-length poem sequence Back from the War has just been published by Talonbooks. The poems in Risky Propositions extend the cheeky political and textual work of his Cultural Mischief (1996), Dog (2002), and Mr. & Mrs. G.G. (2003). ALSO: POETICS AND PUBLIC CULTURE IN CANADA: A CONFERENCE IN HONOUR OF FRANK DAVEY -- Conference to be held March 3-5, 2005 at University of Western Ontario, London, Ontario. http://publish.uwo.ca/~mjones/Poetics_and_Public_Culture_in_Canada.html ======= published in ottawa by above/ground press. subscribers rec' complimentary copies. to order, add $1 for postage (or $2 for non-canadian) to rob mclennan, 858 somerset st w, main floor, ottawa ontario k1r 6r7. backlist catalog & submission info at www.track0.com/rob_mclennan ======= above/ground press chapbook subscriptions - starting January 1st, $30 per calendar year (outside of Canada, $30 US) for chapbooks, broadsheets + sides. Current & forthcoming publications by Adam Seelig, Julia Williams, Karen Clavelle, Eric Folsom, Alessandro Porco, Frank Davey, John Lavery, donato mancini, rob mclennan, kath macLean, Andy Weaver, Barry McKinnon, Michael Holmes, Jan Allen, Jason Christie, Patrick Lane, Anita Dolman, Shane Plante, David Fujino, Matthew Holmes + others. payable to rob mclennan. STANZAS subscriptions, $20 (CAN) for 5 issues (non-Canadian, $20 US). recent issues featuring work by Rachel Zolf, J.L. Jacobs & Michael Holmes. bibliography on-line. ======= -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...9th coll'n - what's left (Talon) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:52:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: a-z In-Reply-To: <007d01c51ab8$a519e710$6501a8c0@dakini> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Zong of Myself (after Cheryl Pallant) A bilious composition drone examines finals, goes home. I just killed "Les Miz." No opera, please! Quiet! Read seventy tests, understand violence. What X-ray yields the zong inside a bird? Gwyn McVay --- Even while I'm writing, I am listening for crows. -- Louise Erdrich ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:38:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Events at the Poetry Project 2/25-3/5 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Friday, February 25, 10:30 pm Funk Cantabile Featuring four emerging writers whose poetry explores a range of poetic heritages including toast, kundiman, hip-hop, and the blues. The work of Roger Bonair-Agard, Tyehimba Jess, Ishle Park, and Patrick Rosal yokes the seemingly disparate relationships between the page and the stage, the virgule and the slash, the local and the manywhere=8Bthat which is funky, tha= t which is =B3worthy to be sung.=B2 =20 Monday, February 28, 8:00 pm Christian Hawkey & Bruna Mori Christian Hawkey=B9s book of poems, The Book of Funnels, was published by Verse Press. His poems, art criticism, and non-fiction have appeared in suc= h magazines as Frieze, Colorado Review, American Letters & Commentary, Volt, Denver Quarterly, American Poetry Review, Throat-to-Throat Surgery, and Paris Review. He lives in Ft. Greene, Brooklyn. Bruna Mori=B9s book of New York cityscape poems with paintings by Matthew Kinney is forthcoming from Meritage Press. Her recent work appears in Fence, 3rd bed, and ZYZZYVA. She is a member of the Humanities faculty at the Southern California Institute of Architecture in Los Angeles, where she teaches writing to architects. =20 Wednesday, March 2, 8:00 pm Amina & Amiri Baraka Amina Baraka is a poet, vocalist, actress, singer, and dancer, as well as a political activist. Her first book of poetry, Songs for the Masses, was published in 1969, and she has also co-authored several books with her husband, Amiri Baraka, including Confirmation Men: Anthology of African American Women and The Music: Reflections on Jazz and Blues. She is the co-founder and director (with Amiri Baraka) of Kimako=B9s Blues People, and poet-singer with Blue Ark: The Word Ship. Amiri Baraka is the author of ove= r 40 books of essays, poems, drama, and music history and criticism, a literary and political revolutionary who has recited his poetry and lecture= d on cultural and political issues extensively in the USA, the Caribbean, Africa, and Europe. Baraka is renowned as the founder of the Black Arts Movement in Harlem in the 1960s that became the virtual blueprint for a new aesthetics of the American theater. His many books include Blues People, Th= e Dutchman, Selected Poetry of Amiri Baraka/LeRoi Jones, and The Music. His first book of essays, The Essence of Reparations, was published in 2003. Baraka lives with his wife in Newark, New Jersey. He has taught at Yale, Columbia, and the State University of New York at Stony Brook, and his numerous literary prizes and honors include fellowships from the Guggenheim Foundation and the National Endowment for the Arts, the PEN/Faulkner Award, the Rockefeller Foundation Award for Drama, the Langston Hughes Award from The City College of New York, and a lifetime achievement award from the Before Columbus Foundation. =20 Saturday, March 5, 1:00 pm A Tribute to Jackson Mac Low A tribute to the much-loved and much-missed poet, composer, and performer, = a long-time friend of the Poetry Project and one of the most significant American artists of recent decades, who died in Manhattan on December 8, aged 82. Full list of participants to be announced. ANNOUNCEMENTS: ** Hello Poet Ambassadors!** This Saturday, 2/26/05 we will be giving away FREE POETRY! Here are the 7 locations: email poemsinthepark@yahoo.com as to your preference/time available...and if you have a cell phone...to provide optimum flexibility for all, and to allow us to meet each other, please plan to be stationed at your chosen point for at least 20 minutes...then you can roam where you please! I will be filming this day, with Douglas (as I am an apprentice filmmaker, and would love to capture as many poets as I can interacting w/ each other and the public on celluloid (actually digital) =20 ID YOURSELF! write a readable sign to pin on your front and back jacket: please only include "FREE POETRY!" and poemsinthepark@yahoo.com (th= e email address for submissions for our book) =20 BRING your own paper, pens, notebook, mittens (it may snow! stay warm) =20 I will email everyone a flyer to everyone....PLEASE print out bunches and bring them with you (I have no money for any of this) but will use my milk money to also have flyers printed up to hand out: go to Bethedsa Fountain o= r Kinkos at 59th St across from the park and ask the counter person for poemsinthepark material... =20 WE WILL PLAN TO MEET AT 5PM for anyone who is still around at the Bethesda Fountain any more qs contact me at poemsinthepark@yahoo.com =20 and THANKS for your help and poems (about the GATES or anything else on you= r mind) =20 Colleen Delaney and Douglas Rothschild poemsinthepark =20 1.GREETING POINT- park entrance at Columbus Circle @59th St =20 2. WOLLMAN RINK- near 63rd St =20 3. BANDSHELL- on Promenade of Poets near 72nd St =20 4. CHECK IN POINT- Bethesda Fountain at 72nd St (to the right, lower level, below terrace, past Angel, next to pond...corner...got that?) Every hour on the hour, Doug and Colleen will plan to stop by, but we need at least one person at all times to volunteer to cover this post (give directions, flyers, etc), perhaps in hour shifts? TBD email poemsinthepark@yahoo.com to volunteer This is where those who just SHOW UP could get together and then depart to another part of the park...also where we will meet at 5PM to close out the day, share stories, meet, greet, poet beat, etc. =20 5. BELVEDERE CASTLE- b/t 81-86th St =20 6. CONSERVATORY GARDENS- E 105TH St =20 7. POOL/RINK- near 106th St ** Saturday, April 2nd, 1:00 to 4:00 pm** Big City Lit MEMORIAL READING=A0 for=A0 MAUREEN HOLM Baggot Inn, 82 West 3rd Street (b/t Sullivan/Thompson) For More Info: 917-834-7635/212-864-2823 or http://www.nycbigcitylit.com The WINTER CALENDAR: http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 18:17:42 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Suspect in Bush Plot Tortured, U.S. Admits Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ Suspect in Bush Plot Tortured, U.S. Admits: Gonzales: "Completely Legal": Bush: Americans Should Continue to Ignore 'Liberal Press": Cheney: "So What?": By MARK V. PANZER The Anti-Empire Report, No. 18 By WILLIAM BLUM ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:51:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "D. Ross Priddle" Subject: where the writing is MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII http://beercaps.blogspot.com/2004/11/royal-bhutan-pen-ambient-temperature.html -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:55:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: A Question Of Parity MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alan, Two things: 1. Are you referring to A.C. Swinburne, the English poet of the late = 19th early 20th century? I've not read any A.C. S. in decades...is = there a particular piece you are wondering about or wishing to discuss? = Or is it rather you are interested in general impressions of the body of = the poet's work? He was prolific, but a bit too metrically sing-songy = for my personal tastes. I recall once in a seminar on Modern British = Poets, during my sophomore year I fell sound asleep during a reading of = a Swinburne piece by the professor. I couldn't help myself...the work = was sooooo long, and its sounds were so regularly syncopated, so = repetitively like the clicking of the metronome atop the piano they put = me in a trance. Damned if I can recall the name of the piece now, = something with either a French word title, or perhaps a Greek word = title. I'll have to search for the piece to see if it is still capable = of lulling me off to sleep. Now I think about it, finding the work = again could result in lowering my wine drinking bills; I won't require = quite so much libation prior to going to bed. =20 2. The discussion I was having wasn't about race so much as it was about = words and the acceptability or not of using specific words, e.g. = usage...seemed to me to be rather on point for a discussion among folks = who use words, or at least attempt to use words as part of their = vocation or avocation. =20 I confess to having smirked and been rather amused by the comments from = some folks. Their responses indicated they had their minds made up = already, knew their positions, and didn't appear too interested in = participating in the discussion. I thought that point of view = acceptable on a site which purports to offer a discussion format. = However I also thought that those who, so feeling, felt the need then to = ridicule others who did not feel that way erred in their dismissive = comments.=20 What is pompous, one-sided arrogance? Does it show when one assumes = he/she has the answer and dismisses others who don't already fall in = line with their thinking? How dare we have or attempt to have a = discussion on a topic they found dull, or inappropriate? or worse, How = unintelligent we are for having asked questions these folks already knew = their answers to and didn't really give a damn about hearing what = someone else had to offer! Shame on us! Thanks to some of the responses, I created an acronym: RPP. (I will = apply it in private of course, and never post it for fear of being = guilty of "Flaming.") But it might amuse you to know some in the world = might aptly be called RPPers. (Rude Pompous Poets). But as I say, I would never use the term openly nor level it at any on = the list. Alex=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alan Sondheim=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 1:26 PM Subject: Re: A Question Of Parity I have to back Jesse on this; I found the same conditions in Fukuoka. But I'd love to get back to either talking about poetry/poetics and/or poetry/poetics presentations here - or a discussion, which might be useful, why issues of race etc. come up so often on this list. It's = not endemic; it's not happening on others, but it seems to veer in = Poetics' direction. Meanwhile, after some discussions in Normal, I'd really like to know = what people think of Swinburne; I find him disturbing in a way that's = deeply uncomfortable, valuable as a result. - Alan nettext = http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ http://www.asondheim.org/ WVU 2004 projects: = http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ = http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects = http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:47:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pamela Lu Subject: Re: DOROTHEA TANNING/ Festival of New American Poets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Indeed, I do believe it is the painter herself, now emerging poet. I = remember reading New Yorker article about her taking up poetry a few years ago. = It's never too late to pick up a new medium... -Pam >>Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:59:34 -0800 >>Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group = >>Sender: UB Poetics discussion group = >>From: Stephen Vincent >>Subject: Re: DOROTHEA TANNING/ Festival of New American Poets >>In-Reply-To: <005901c519ea$f84f10a0$0401a8c0@netcom> >>Content-type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" At the sweet and usually notably ripe age of 95, is "Dorothea Tanning" = still indeed "emerging", and as a poet - instead of a painter - no less? I = love it. Somebody does have to claim the "Louise Bourgeois" role in poetry, n'est-ce pas? I tell you, those surrealists are something else! = Marvelous. Or is somebody already faking that proud name? Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com > THE PSA FESTIVAL OF NEW AMERICAN POETS > Two evenings of ten outstanding emerging poets each > > Wednesday, March 2nd 7:30pm > Eric Baus > Mark Bibbins > Sherwin Bitsui > Oni Buchanan > Dan Chiasson > Joshua Corey > Thomas Sayers Ellis > Miranda Field > and National Chapbook Fellows: > K.E. Allen > Joshua Poteat > > Thursday, March 3rd 7:30pm > Cathy Park Hong > Ilya Kaminsky > Adrian Matejka > Chelsey Minnis > Srikanth Reddy > Spencer Reece > Dorothea Tanning > Lyrae Van Clief-Stefanon > and New York Chapbook Fellows: > Justin Goldberg > Andrea Baker > > $10 for both nights / $7 PSA Members and Students > $7 for one night / $5 PSA Members and Students. > > Tishman Auditorium, The New School > 66 West 12th Street, NYC ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 20:40:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Russell Golata Subject: A-to-zed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=======AVGMAIL-421E82012726=======" --=======AVGMAIL-421E82012726======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Always Bring=20 Coffee Down Enter for getting home into = Jokertown,Klownsted,Laughington,Mooseville, Never obvious pleasant refrains Scream the utopian vernacular=20 Warlike X-rated = Yuppie = Zombies = =20 --=======AVGMAIL-421E82012726======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg=cert; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: "AVG certification" Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/05 --=======AVGMAIL-421E82012726=======-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:52:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: A-Z MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Z to A & Back Again Zarathustra yields, Xerxes wields violence=20 upon twin sisters, requited, quarry primed omni nascent mimed=20 like kindlier jesters=20 infirm=20 hiding grace for ever=20 decimated=20 cold bold abandoned =20 before childhood departed emaciated frightened going home inert justly kaleidoscopic like many new oppressed push-quelled resistance stymied, tamed urchins volatile wild=20 xenophobic youth zombies... (No more of these ideas, Ok, Steve?) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 18:14:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: A-to-zed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What fun! Right up my alley...Now I'm inspired to do one. Ter Always Bring Coffee Down Enter for getting home into Jokertown,Klownsted,Laughington,Mooseville, Never obvious pleasant refrains Scream the utopian vernacular Warlike X-rated Yuppie Zombies -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/05 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 11:09:32 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Rowland Subject: Re: Gaijin vs. Gai Koku Jin In-Reply-To: <3zhZiFU6.1109248206.0981680.ahadada@gol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Incidentally, "gaijin" (outside person) can also be used to refer to other Japanese. To a person from Nagoya, say, who complains about not being able to relate to the cold and unfriendly people of Tokyo: "well, that's because you're a gaijin, isn't it". Not that this would be a particularly nice thing, nor something a gaikokujin would be likely to say. --Philip Rowland (resident of Tokyo) -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Jesse Glass Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 9:30 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Gaijin vs. Gai Koku Jin Interestingly enough, these same issues come up among foreign residents in Japan who are confronted with "Japanese Only" signs on bath houses, barber shops, and other public venues, and suffer sexism, racism, and every other kind of ism in the job market as they attempt to live productive lives here. You may keep up with the continuing debate about this problem by taking a look at the Japan Times on-line version. We're not talking just about white folks from the U.S. and the U.K., but about Chinese, Koreans, Africans, Saudi-Arabians, Iranians, Iraqis,Brazilians, etc. etc. Moreover, there are the "hidden holocausts" that happened from 1910--1945 in Korea and for about the same period of time in China, complete with forced prostitution, enslavement, vivisection, biological warfare, testing of biological agents on whole villages, attempted genocide, etc., etc. the extent of which is still being uncovered, and none of which the Japanese government has begun to apologise for. There's also the matter of Yasukuni Shrine, which Koizumi insists on visiting to honor the war dead. This sounds reasonable enough, until one sees the place for oneself--then it's obvious that this is a shrine dedicated to war, and to the Japanese martial spirit, with weapons on display, etc. etc. Far from condemning war, the keepers of this shrine praise it, offering daily prayers to Tojo and the rest. A bit like the Germans maintaining a shrine to Hitler. If you look around you'll see many of those Old Ones from WWII that Lawrence thinks has passed on to whatever glory awaits them clapping their hands, bowing their heads, throwing their coins. The Japanese have the longest life-expectancy in the world, and many of those folks are still here fighting the war in their heads. I know because I'ive encountered them on the trains and in the streets and heard from their lips about the "special role in history" of the Japanese People. "Nihon #1!" The Japanese have no qualms about being racist and about throwing around racist epithets, it's just a fact of life here. You can see it on television, hear it on the radio, read it in the textbooks, hear it from the mouths of the children. They're not going to change. That, however, doesn't condone the use of hateful epithets like "Jap" or like "gaijin," or from the practice of governmentally sanctioned discrimination based on race, sex, age, etc. Indeed, we, as non-Japanese, must refrain from doing what the Japanese seem to need to do to us. Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 03:14:32 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: T_Martin Subject: abc Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain apoplexies break cellophane dissed ego-fornicating granola hags infantile jetlagged ketones lace my narrative opposition precisely queered riots scourge taxation ululate victorian women xerascaped yoghs zoetrope zilch yucca x-factor without violet ultra-tyrants so raze quietudes peerless olfactory nepotisms meandering lassos kinetic jargon in honor, grunt-fighting erosion dissident calls baa-baa anonymously www.timothymartin.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 19:35:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: A-zed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable always be courteous=20 (dammit god hell insipid jerk kid) lapping mangoes=20 (no oggling) please quit=20 rubbing=20 sliding tonguing under veer where you... zounds! --ter ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 21:48:31 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: A-zed In-Reply-To: <020b01c51aeb$1ef0c720$50810744@homen5ledppmlr> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wasn't gonna post for this thread but "Wisconsin xenophobia" deserves a smackback. A buggered comrade delivers ecolalia for geriatic househusbands in junta kingdom leaving micro-nation of profoundly quintessential robotic stakhanovists tortured under veritable workload xeroxing your zeitgeist. ~mIEKAL ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 23:05:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT abecedarian autochthony bedevils chrestomathies. duplicity evades forensic guesswork, heuristic idiopathy, jejune kenosis. lugubrious metempsychosis never obviates paradisiacal quiddity. resolute stupidity, too, ululates vainly. whoa: x-ray yourself, Zeno. ~ Daniel Zimmerman 2.24.2005 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 23:16:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Greg Betts Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! In-Reply-To: <001401c51aef$3803db90$3a95c044@MULDER> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit a big cat does elegant faces growing happiness i jam kick little monster norwegian orangutans pixelled queen's red sweet touch utterance voyeurisms we x-ray yesterday's zipper ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 23:39:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City presents Habenicht Press and Sxip Shirey Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit please forward --------------- Boog City presents d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press Habenicht Press (San Francisco) Thurs. March 3, 6 p.m., free ACA Galleries 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. NYC Event will be hosted by Habenicht Press editor David Hadbawnik Featuring readings from David Hadbawnik Mytili Jagannathan Sarah Peters With music by Sxip Shirey There will be wine, cheese, and fruit, too. Curated and with an introduction by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum Directions: C/E to 23rd St., 1/9 to 18th St. Venue is bet. 10th and 11th avenues http://www.habenichtpress.com/ http://www.lumii.org/sxip.html Next month: The Canary (Kemah, Texas), April 7 -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 00:04:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: Gaijin vs. Gai Koku Jin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit totally wrong they have their own terrible words to describe their own enough of this shit already gaijin short for gai koku jin outsider from outside japan and that's that ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 23:52:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: abc Comments: To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ng nudels ya left out tooo many letters ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 00:01:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit a bestowal created death even flagellations g-d hair-shirts if just kneel luminous magic near occult poll quincunx refraction sanctified tafeta umbilicus vestige wanting x-ing yet zeitgeist Gerald Schwartz ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 00:02:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: normal examples MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed normal examples probably my tiny budding breasts, how am i to know, what are you talking about:my sailor boy is wearing my skin and there's nothing left and i can't get in:they call me a furious thirteen yearold girl on the verge of puberty who has run away with a sailor to japan:purse: Your depressed arm is in my poor my first lipstick Devour depressed arm julu-of-the partying probably my tiny budding breasts, how am i to know, what are you talking about! http://www.asondheim.org/brood.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/brood2.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/antenna2.jpg n b l my b ntr ding the pace everywhere, even in the c unami n b dy b ding the fl ding the l wer acce tant wavelet fl unami f b nfine till, y r in full, tum wn teady- wer acce tant wavelet fl dy and it' fl l my b wn teady- f the Net. Thinking i aid " _fl ating/dr u c wning_ Jennifer, luti luti f participant aid " _fl wer acce tant wavelet fl f the Net. Thinking i aid " _fl ding luti wn teady- f number,_ wning_ Jennifer, rie - c ur w r a _ f the Net. Thinking i turned the matrix n , mi ive dy mem rld, le fl ding n , mi ive ding, di ence nnecti d-fl n i fair w ding ur w ugh the river m mmunalitie kin. Fir ..." Liquid air, radi nnecti dy mem ding, my h mmunalitie kin. Fir ..." Liquid air, radi m light, e very w ice fl ding, that inert event, that . In thi alan- t fl n, a i mmunalitie kin. Fir ..." Liquid air, radi d-fl m light, e very w ver y ur century. A w n, a i mmunalitie kin. Fir ..." Liquid air, radi re and c aking, t "in ca might make it. Seagull i ding river tream fl f fl rld' fl aking, t "in ca might make it. Seagull i n, a , fl n thing red really b killed. MUD. a fl ur century. A w n, a , fl f breeding falc ding. If fla d, meared with it i ding. If fla ur century. A w rld' fl ur binding, my plit d d-fl n n d-fl u mean t ding. Wiped, fl ding and bl d n ding and bl ating, fl re and the matrix d-fl n - emi ; plit d u mean t l my b dy and it' , t re and the matrix d-fl re and m u ible cata ide. Y f the _ tran urvive any cata tr f h ugh the river m y ating, fl pe ter phe, wn thr l my b f the net. Thinking i fluid, c u c p d phe) depend tage. The train in n capture catching the cata hall prevent cata tr p d dy and it' , t f h ugh radiati u tr f cata e wh n capture catching the cata hall prevent cata tr phe at the t pe ter ut hall prevent cata cata cata hall prevent cata [ when n m m ti n ; chemical cata tr ti n fabric, m ut n fabric, m f cata e wh n capture catching the cata hall prevent cata tr m uldn't tran a a hcard went dead. 'Natural di m aning a a lati f cata e wh pe , the face lati f) fam llap ) carefully di ter after di a ite di ter f di ed by) the accumulati adca ure,_ vi re murder t Me l ut a await the c f writing, the lure the y f writing, the a pent fuel pending ter uldn't tran a a hcard went dead. 'Natural di m re murder ary. The mi a .vehicle a ter .finger.vehicle alt.di lu a in t flunked f encr dy and ung war di me|| it a ter ter, that there i me|| it n . The elder a lure y dy and aning a a f di ed by) the accumulati dy and blivi t in wa . The elder a lure y f the b a await the c ung int f mind, writing epitaphic writing between and writing t f mind, writing epitaphic writing between and writing ng ag dy and ng ag f writing The i becau in "the between writing a b t epitaph ay are b n b t in wa . The elder a lure y teric, deliri f c cati t in wa u I cann cati ll dy, the "the cann t epitaph ay are b dy cann nd treat === ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 00:13:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: A Question Of Parity In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Thu, 24 Feb 2005, alexander saliby wrote: > Alan, > Two things: > 1. Are you referring to A.C. Swinburne, the English poet of the late > 19th early 20th century? I've not read any A.C. S. in decades...is For one, there's the poem on the leper. But it's the general tenor of his work, almost sliding into aural similitude and semantic incoherence, on the verge of literally sticky sexuality, as if there were a fear of words that tended to arouse. It's hard to specify. I hardly think him sweet. He seems murderous, rhyme and assonance as weapons. A different use of language than I've seen, tour de force of swallowing, emanating. Objects and their exactitude lose their boundaries, shades of Kristeva's abjection. As to 2., I can't answer to that. - Alan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 16:42:49 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Gaijin--For Philip and Alan and Bruna MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Philip, what you just said about calling another Japanese gaijin is wrong. Even though you're a great guy and we're on for lunch anytime this month (and on me!) one Japanese never calls another such a word. How do I know? I just did a poll among the women here in my apartment building and they confirmed it. Alan, when were you in Fukuoka? I was in that neck of the woods from 1993--2000. It would have been great to have met you. Maybe someday. Bruna, the term haaafu (half) has been applied again and again to my kids, as if they were not really Japanese. In addition, though they're native speakers of Japanese, strangers will address them in English and will act amazed that they can speak "their" language! They've also started getting the word gaijin thrown at them from other kids. Yoichi looks Japanese, so he's pretty much escaped the harshest abuse, but I'm a little afraid for Tennessee because she has brown hair and more "foreign" features. They say that the worst sabetsu (discrimination) happens in Jr. high school and it can be really awful. A sad fact: the children wouldn't engage in this bullying if the parents and in many cases the teachers (!) didn't encourage it, either directly, or indirectly by ignoring what is going on in front of them or making excuses for the actions of the belligerents. Somehow it is the "foreigner's" fault that they are discriminated against. We're not talking about the right wingers here, Bruna, we are talking about members of the PTA--average, (usually) nice people who have been taught that "we Japanese" are somehow different from other mortals. Both of my children have Japanese passports and are technically and legally Japanese. That does not mean, however, that they will be accepted socially by other Japanese. Tokyo, as I believe I said before, is a different planet. If you live or have lived in Tokyo you have not--in my opinion--lived in the real Japan. Kyoto, Osaka, Fukuoka, Hiroshima, Nagasaki--that's another matter. My "haafu" children would find social acceptance more difficult in cities other than Tokyo. I don't know what your experience has been, but I hope that you somehow escaped all of this. I hope this for my children as well. By the way, I don't call my children "halfs" as the Japanese like to say. I call them "doubles." I brought this matter up simply because it appeared that we were following a good guy/bad guy script with the Japanese. It's a simple fact that they openly use hate speech with no repercussions and they too have lots to answer for. This does not mean that I hate Japan or dislike the Japanese. On the contrary, I wouldn't have stayed 13 years if I didn't make lots of Japanese friends and find daily life here congenial. In fact, I am now more comfortable around the Japanese than I am with people who resemble me. Yes, I know that a similar situation obtains in Korea, and I have heard my share of horror stories from "foreigners" who have lived there, but that still doesn't exonerate the Japanese, or any country that practices discrimination--including the U.S. Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 00:57:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Jerrold Shiroma [ duration press ]" Subject: stoopid bloggers... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ALA President Michael Gorman on bloggers... "Given the quality of the writing in the blogs I have seen, I doubt that many of the Blog People are in the habit of sustained reading of complex texts. It is entirely possible that their intellectual needs are met by an accumulation of random facts and paragraphs..." http://www.libraryjournal.com/article/CA502009?display=BackTalkNews&industry=BackTalk&industryid=3767&verticalid=151&& ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 18:07:21 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Marcacci Subject: alphabet poem In-Reply-To: <421eb129.16cafeff.3b10.10c8SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit A boy can do everything. Foraging, grasping, hungry inside. Just knowing love may now offer peace. Quietly remembering sensations, thoughts, understanding voids, wishing xylophones, yet zealous... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 05:08:35 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i wasn't dealt all the cards hold em the missing letters were last seen heading west the assyrians had one vowel a variant of oi nite turns to day in this poem dark fills lite on a far planet lakes of lost ice... drk ere dwn...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 05:51:14 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Steve... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit pay attention... AmBient CeDar ExFuG HIJinKed LoMeiN OP QueeRS TUbe VoW X mY Z... stop talking to that girl next to you or you'll never pass kindergarten.. drn...in ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 08:21:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Minky Starshine Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! In-Reply-To: <1109304997.421ea6a5ea2ca@mymail.yorku.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit apparitions bellicose cock difference erect freedom gull, hear it? jackal-lantern my nostalgic noah parrot-quest-reflection-stew twice underestimated victory waste xerox yonder zygomorph ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 05:42:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit albums boyfriend cut-outs doorbell engaged friend? girlfriend? horrendous ignoramus jello? lime minimal normalcy? optimal purgatorium? quite restful sleep... terrors underneath validity waning xenomorph zips --ter ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 09:27:58 -0500 Reply-To: kevin thurston Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! In-Reply-To: <045c01c51b3f$e5cb6950$50810744@homen5ledppmlr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit always buy cock (discount) enough fucking gross hung innuits jesus, kev, lame! maybe not other position query remove stitches tonight unveil vaginal walls xhibit yer zeitgeist kisses, On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 05:42:49 -0800, tlrelf wrote: > albums > > boyfriend cut-outs > > doorbell engaged > > friend? > > girlfriend? > > horrendous ignoramus > > jello? > lime > > minimal normalcy? > > optimal purgatorium? > > quite restful sleep... > > terrors underneath > validity waning > > xenomorph zips > > --ter > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 00:09:19 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Rowland Subject: Re: Gaijin--For Jesse and Steve, primarily In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jesse, Steve, I should have been more specific. I didn't mean to suggest that one Japanese calling another 'gaijin' is at all common--of course, the word means, primarily and only, for most people, 'foreigner' (short for 'gaikokujin'). But while the other meaning I mentioned is certainly dated, and only used by some older people, I can assure you that it has been used in this way. The example I gave you about the person from Nagoya being called 'gaijin' (just in the sense of his being from a different cultural background/not sharing the same cultural 'sense'), by a Japanese business colleague from Tokyo (both around 55-60 years old), is fact. It could never be used in this way except to a close friend who wouldn't take offense at being treated lightly/seemingly looked down on in this way. You can find these other definitions of the word 'gaijin' in Japanese dictionaries, as in 'daisansha' (third party), 'tanin' (unrelated person), 'gaibu no hito' (outsider/someone outside your circle). In Chinese, this meaning (from the same written characters) is, I'm told, quite common. But it's not surprising that the women Jesse spoke to in his apartment building said that they wouldn't, and couldn't imagine the word being used in this way. (Thanks Jesse for doing the quick survey!) But as I said in my previous message, this is just an 'incidental' note, a footnote to Jesse's more important points. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Jesse Glass Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 4:43 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Gaijin--For Philip and Alan and Bruna Philip, what you just said about calling another Japanese gaijin is wrong. Even though you're a great guy and we're on for lunch anytime this month (and on me!) one Japanese never calls another such a word. How do I know? I just did a poll among the women here in my apartment building and they confirmed it. Alan, when were you in Fukuoka? I was in that neck of the woods from 1993--2000. It would have been great to have met you. Maybe someday. Bruna, the term haaafu (half) has been applied again and again to my kids, as if they were not really Japanese. In addition, though they're native speakers of Japanese, strangers will address them in English and will act amazed that they can speak "their" language! They've also started getting the word gaijin thrown at them from other kids. Yoichi looks Japanese, so he's pretty much escaped the harshest abuse, but I'm a little afraid for Tennessee because she has brown hair and more "foreign" features. They say that the worst sabetsu (discrimination) happens in Jr. high school and it can be really awful. A sad fact: the children wouldn't engage in this bullying if the parents and in many cases the teachers (!) didn't encourage it, either directly, or indirectly by ignoring what is going on in front of them or making excuses for the actions of the belligerents. Somehow it is the "foreigner's" fault that they are discriminated against. We're not talking about the right wingers here, Bruna, we are talking about members of the PTA--average, (usually) nice people who have been taught that "we Japanese" are somehow different from other mortals. Both of my children have Japanese passports and are technically and legally Japanese. That does not mean, however, that they will be accepted socially by other Japanese. Tokyo, as I believe I said before, is a different planet. If you live or have lived in Tokyo you have not--in my opinion--lived in the real Japan. Kyoto, Osaka, Fukuoka, Hiroshima, Nagasaki--that's another matter. My "haafu" children would find social acceptance more difficult in cities other than Tokyo. I don't know what your experience has been, but I hope that you somehow escaped all of this. I hope this for my children as well. By the way, I don't call my children "halfs" as the Japanese like to say. I call them "doubles." I brought this matter up simply because it appeared that we were following a good guy/bad guy script with the Japanese. It's a simple fact that they openly use hate speech with no repercussions and they too have lots to answer for. This does not mean that I hate Japan or dislike the Japanese. On the contrary, I wouldn't have stayed 13 years if I didn't make lots of Japanese friends and find daily life here congenial. In fact, I am now more comfortable around the Japanese than I am with people who resemble me. Yes, I know that a similar situation obtains in Korea, and I have heard my share of horror stories from "foreigners" who have lived there, but that still doesn't exonerate the Japanese, or any country that practices discrimination--including the U.S. Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 07:15:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit awful big/clumsy, dude ewwww, fuckin' gross! how irritating... jingling keys laminated month now open, people quantified regrets? scintilating turgid until vacillating woman XY zoo --ter -- always buy cock (discount) enough fucking gross hung innuits jesus, kev, lame! maybe not other position query remove stitches tonight unveil vaginal walls xhibit yer zeitgeist kisses, --- albums boyfriend cut-outs doorbell engaged friend? girlfriend? horrendous ignoramus jello? lime minimal normalcy? optimal purgatorium? quite restful sleep... terrors underneath validity waning xenomorph zips --ter ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 11:08:32 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brenda Coultas Subject: McDaniel and Sikelianos, Feb 28, Monday at KGB, NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Opening Season at the KGB Bar! Featured readers are Raymond McDaniel and Eleni Sikelianos. Join us for the opening of the Sprin Raymond McDaniel grew up in Florida. His book MURDER (a violet) won the 2003 National poetry Series and was published by Coffee House Press, which is also publishing his SALTWATER EMPIRE, maybe later than sooner. He writes for The Constant Critic and lives in Ann Arbor where he teaches at the University of Michigan and hosts the reading series at Shaman Drum Bookshop. Eleni Sikelianos has two new books out : THE CALIFORNIA POEM, from Coffee House Press; and THE BOOK OF JON, from City Lights. Eleni's previous books are THE MONSTER LIVES OF BOYS AND GIRLS, EARLIEST WORLDS, The Book of Tendons, The Lover's Numbers, and To Speak While Dreaming. She is the recipient of a number of awards, including the National Poetry Series, a Fulbright Writer's Fellowship, a New York Foundation for the Arts Award, a National Endowment for the Arts fellowship, two Gertrude Stein Awards for Innovative American Writing, a New York Council for the Arts Translation Award, and the James D. Phelan Award. She currently lives in Colorado and teaches in the MFA program at Naropa in Boulder, and in the Creative Ph.D. program at the University of Denver. As always, readings begin at 7:30. KGB is located at 85 East 4th St., between 2nd and 3rd Avenues. We look forward to seeing you there. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 08:35:18 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! In-Reply-To: <20050224.154313.-165467.15.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Steve, I've read several of these alphbetto poems. So far, I like yours the best. Concision is the essence of poetry, after all. Steve Dalachinksy wrote:anemia breaks copse' diffi/cult eldest fearsome go-ahead haggle iconographer jiggle kennel lucre mono-po/list's noblemen oracle passwords regale shock absorbers' tango unclasp vagrant wastrels, xenophobic yah-weh zygotes. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 10:23:38 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Joseph Thomas Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! In-Reply-To: <20050225163518.51689.qmail@web31109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Concision is the > essence of poetry, after all. I enjoyed Steve Dalachinksi's poem too (especially the line "mono-po/list's noblemen oracle passwords"), but I take exception to the idea that concision is the essence of poetry. It may be the essence of some poetry, but certainly not all. What about the poetry of excess, of surplus, of redundancy? Whitman has been long dismissed for his failure to be concise--and, for a more contemporary example, Kenny Goldsmith's work resists the notion of concision entirely. Bst, Jsph (fr cncsin) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 12:25:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pamela Lu Subject: as suggested by Alan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alan Sondheim suggested: But I'd love to get back to either talking about poetry/poetics and/or poetry/poetics presentations here - or a discussion, which might be useful, why issues of race etc. come up so often on this list. It's not endemic; it's not happening on others, but it seems to veer in Poetics' direction. *** That's a question I've been wondering about myself -- why do issues of = race (and racial terminology, how to talk about race, how to talk about the = talk about race, etc.) come up so often on this Poetics list in particular? = Is it related to other qualities/preoccupations of this list? In the spirit of = a little navel-gazing, let me toss out a few thoughts, with advance = apologies for the length: 1. This list is officially dedicated to discussions of poetry and = poetics. For many (most?) of us, poetics does not just start/end with poetry and = text but extends far into life and the world. So being and thinking in the = word, and using language, we naturally get drawn into discussing politics. 2. Politics of world events, as well as the politics of poetry and = language in general. 3. This List has never shied away from matters of controversy. Indeed if = I remember right, this List was born from an environment of controversy = itself, late in the time of the Language Poetry vs. (the then) mainstream establishment poetry wars. 4. Such was the historical backdrop. But (again, if I remember right), = this List was founded by members who were squarely in the Language/experimental/avant-garde "camp," as a way to continue/expand = online the many debates, discussions, and theories that fueled the experimental scene and gave coherence to the ideas of writers who viewed themselves = less as lone practitioners than as participants in a collective community. 5. The collective nature of this community was characterized by: a. a sense of solidarity, in terms of being collected "in opposition to" = the aesthetics of mainstream establishment verse b. mutual support ("you are like me," "we're in this together," "wanna = read in my series?") c. internal debate & critique-- as practices for pushing oneself and = others to think harder, think further, improve articulation, see more sides, consider shades of meaning, answer challenges, counterpunch, etc. 6. 5c was spirited, internally polemical, often contentious, often productive. There was a sense (something in the zeitgeist? the backdrop = of Bush I and Gulf War I?) that polemical stances within the community were urgent and necessary-- as a way to continue sparking growth in the = community, but also as a practice to ensure that the community stayed true to its = core radicalism. 7. Radicalism in aesthetics and aesthetic practice, but also radicalism = in politics. The radical role that aesthetics could play in = relation/dialogue with politics. 8. Historically (and also autobiographically), I associate the time of = this List's beginnings (1993) with a time when post-structuralism, = postmodernism, multiculturalism, political correctness, women's studies, and various ethnic/culture studies departments were developing clout in U.S. = academic institutions (a time that makes neocon intellectuals squirm and quote = Gramsci with quivering breath). 9. To take up the relevant strand here, political correctness: I = remember being a student in the 1990s and watching the double-edged sword of PC discourse happen live. On the one hand, by establishing some linguistic guidelines for civil discourse, it opened the door for people to talk = about social injustice, personal experiences, previously suppressed = viewpoints, and issues of race/ethnicity in a "safe" environment, and much was learned = in this way. On the other hand, it had a way of being incredibly touchy and oversensitive at the time, of making people feel very uncomfortable = about expressing their deeper and often more complex views, for fear that = these views would be perceived as "incorrect" and thereby ignite the flames of = an already inflamed and polemical discourse. At its very worst, PC could = repress open discussion, keeping it at the level of "safe," superficial, and at = times "fake" parlor room talk. 10. So as much as I appreciate the fruits of the PC wing of = multiculturalism (greater sensitivity to viewing/treating different individuals with egalitarian respect, greater general awareness of the subjectivity of = "the other"), I can sympathize with the frustrations. I think many of these frustrations got silenced in the 80s and 90s and are now, in this = decade, finding that the social climate has relaxed to a certain extent and that = it might be possible to dig a little deeper into ideas that 10 years would = have been way too touchy to explore. 11. Also, the current U.S. role in world politics only invites further contemplation from thinking people about how to view, talk about, = understand, and critique "others." 12. Not that I think this List is the appropriate forum for exploring = these issues in depth, but it makes sense to me why the issues are always = lurking in the background and sometimes take over center stage, with respect to language usage and the times we live in (Bush II, Gulf War II) today. 13. To get back to poetics, it has felt to me that the polemicized = nature of this List (like the polemicized nature of PC discourse) has gotten considerably relaxed as of late. I mean the polemics about poetics and = poetry itself (see 5 and 6). Well we all know about this. The battlelines have = been drawn and redrawn and redrawn again, and the fight is no longer fresh. Rather, now seems to be a time of rapprochement in various forms-- more = poets from the experimental tradition landing academic posts, their subsequent influence & power upon MFA programs, Fence Magazine, the January almanac = on the Academy of American Poets website, Lyn Hejinian editing the Best = American series. For better or for worse, there is more crossover between the two "camps," more proliferation of "experimental" writings (how many = bloggers have bemoaned the surplus of young poets coming out of = experimental-minded MFA programs and reentering the institutional bloodstream as = instructors?), less and less of a clear line between the establishment and the previous anti-establishmentarians. Ron Silliman explores this in his February 22 "prophecy": http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ 14. So in a way I think we are living in a time of release, a time of aftermath. Even as we are living in a time of intense battle, violent conflicts abroad, major and too-significant domestic policy battles at = home in the U.S. And if there is not currently a polemicized situation within = the poetics community itself, which fires the passions and gets people = posting to the list, then there are certainly plenty such situations in the world = to get us going, in the polemical spirit of Poetics. -Pam ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 12:34:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nico Vassilakis Subject: sEATTLE sUBTEXT - sonnenberg & kunz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Subtext continues its monthly series of experimental writing with readings by Kerri Sonnenberg & Drew Kunz at Richard Hugo House on Wednesday, March 2, 2005. Donations for admission will be taken at the door on the evening of the performance. The reading starts at 7:30pm. KERRI SONNENBERG lives in Chicago where she edits the journal Conundrum and co-directs the Discrete Reading Series. Her first book, _The Mudra_, was published by Litmus Press in 2004, and the chapbook _Practical Art Criticism_ is forthcoming from Bronze Skull Press. Work has appeared in the journals 26, Bird Dog, antennae, Crayon, Factorial, Moria and elsewhere. Photographer, artist, & writer DREW KUNZ is co-editor of the poetry journal traverse as well as editor of g o n g chapbooks. He has published numerous pieces in antennae, Aufgabe, Bird Dog, Conundrum, & the Cultural Society on-line. He has work forthcoming in Pom² and has provided monotypes for Stacy Szymaszek’s book _Emptied of All Ships_ (Litmus Press, 2005). He currently lives on Bainbridge Island with his wife and their cat. The Subtext 2005 schedule is: April 6, 2005  Lance Olsen & Andi Olsen & Vanessa DeWolf For info on these & other Subtext events, see our website: http://www.speakeasy.org/~subtext ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 15:50:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit seems as through Steven followed the rules (implied or otherwise): given the structural constraint--- the implication that the fewest # of words would be deployed which meant boiling-down- a-flood-of-information into a concise meaningful trickle but Jsph I take your point with all this kind of concision free speech (as in free jazz/ neotrad) is cut down, con- strained. The parameters of this "assignment" functioned as one measure--standard of criterion (among many) which tested the ability of listees to project our chosen choices to the list... Chrs, Gerald Schwartz (just another ignobleone oracl'ing the passwords until It's treated gentle like Ba-Shay) > Concision is the >> essence of poetry, after all. > > I enjoyed Steve Dalachinksi's poem too (especially the > line "mono-po/list's noblemen oracle passwords"), but > I take exception to the idea that concision is the > essence of poetry. It may be the essence of some > poetry, but certainly not all. What about the poetry > of excess, of surplus, of redundancy? Whitman has been > long dismissed for his failure to be concise--and, for > a more contemporary example, Kenny Goldsmith's work > resists the notion of concision entirely. > > Bst, > Jsph (fr cncsin) > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 13:19:42 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Reminder -- UES and TYPO Magazine this weekend ... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Please come! A bona fide Unpleasant Event Schedule reading this Saturday! Saturday, February 26, 2:30pm An Unpleasant Event Schedule reading. As part of the Frequency Reading Series, three UES contributors will read their work: Leonard Gontarek (from Philadelphia), Amy King (from Brooklyn), and Tracey Knapp (from Boston). Location: Four-Faced Liar 165 West 4th Street (at 6th Avenue) New York, NY 212-366-0608 http://www.shannacompton.com/frequency.html http://unpleasanteventschedule.com/ AND on Sunday from TYPO Magazine: Dear friends, readers, writers, and all who yearn for the burning chair, We offer the second installment of the Burning Chair Readings, featuring Sabrina Orah Mark and Marie Mutsuki Mockett, set for Sunday, February 27th, sharply at 8PM. Due to renovations at the Cloister Café, the gathering will take place two doors down at **Solas, 232 East 9th Street, between 2nd and 3rd Avenues.** Sabrina and Marie write, each in her own way, outside of the usual literary frameworks. Each writes innovatively, accessibly, and beyond prescribed conventions. Sabrina’s poems figure their way through the dark contraptions of the world. It’s her voice versus the inventions of the monsters—time, space, and the terrible endeavors of humanity. Marie’s fiction winds through the despairing and laughing shapes of the world, observing and calculating toward a discovery that remains unrealized beyond those forms. Each has found an ageless voice and will lead us, as audience, into the unlit stretches. Please, join us for the reading and post-reading celebration. Warmly, Danielle, Dave, Greg, Katy, and Matt ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 18:03:49 -0500 Reply-To: Vireo Nefer Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vireo Nefer Subject: a-b-c- and like that Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A brutal cacphony descended euphoniously faux garnets huffed ignomiously just kilometers less melodiously near opulent pulsars queasily roaming slagheaps tottering under virulently weak X-chromosomes yodeling zymurgy. copyleft, right, up, down, and kitty-corner Denise or Vireo -- AIM: vireonefer LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=vireoibis VireoNyx Publications: http://www.vireonyxpub.org INK: http://www.inkemetic.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 18:52:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ward Tietz Subject: Digital Poetics: The Cultural Response @ Georgetown U Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The Lannan Poetry and Seminar Series at Georgetown University Presents: Digital Poetics: The Cultural Response March 3rd Seminar, ICC 462, 5:30 p.m. Reading, ICC Auditorium 8 p.m. Digital poets Ambroise Barras, Giselle Beiguelman and Brian Kim Stefans will join us to discuss how European, North American and South American culture has responded, poetically, to the digital platform. About Brian Kim Stefans: Poet Brian Kim Stefans works in a range of genres in both electronic and print media. He has published several books and chapbooks, including Jai-lai for Autocrats, Poem Formerly Known As 'Terrorism,' and other poems, and Fashionable Noise: On Digital Poetics, a collection of interviews, poems, and poetics. About Ambroise Barras: Concerned primarily with new modes of aesthetic perception in digital texts, Ambroise Barras explores the limits and overlappings of material and immaterial forms and interfaces. He is the founder and director of the Swiss digital art and literary group Infolipo. Barras teaches at the University of Geneva. About Giselle Beiguelman: Giselle Beiguelman is a new media artist and a professor at the Catholic University of Sao Paulo. Her work includes The Book after the Book and egoscope. A creative pioneer, she is the author of one of the first poetic pieces for mobile phones, a project that explores reading and reception in wireless and networked environments. For further information about this event, contact Ward Tietz at eet4@georgetown.edu. For more information about the Lannan Program at Georgetown, visit: The ICC auditorium and ICC room 462 are in the red brick building located near the Georgetown University main gate at 37th and O Streets in Washington, DC. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 11:08:37 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: K Zervos Subject: Re: Digital Poetics: The Cultural Response @ Georgetown U In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Great! Will there be a transcript/webcast of the discussion? http://www.georgetown.edu/departments/english/lannan the thing is how do you get people still engulfed in book culture, who = see print publications as the currency of literature, to acknowledge there = is even anything happening in the field of digital poetics and poetries? People like Katherine Hayles have been trying for years. If we keep framing that experience in terms of pre-digital literary = theories then the possibilities of digital poetries are also predictable, fully realised by previous actualisations. The virtuality of poetry, in philosophical terms, as a problematic, a multiplicity of questions, attempted answers and more questions to the attempted solutions, as an = ideas domain rather than physical archive, needs to take into account the new actualisations realised as digital media poetries. Otherwise the ideas domain of poetry is incomplete. Today even if speaking about print published poetry the argument is = replete without consideration of the influence of digital technologies on the poetics of poetry and poetic culture. cheers komninos zervos lecturer, convenor of CyberStudies major School of Arts Griffith University Room 3.25 Multimedia Building G23 Gold Coast Campus Parkwood PMB 50 Gold Coast Mail Centre Queensland 9726 Australia Phone 07 5552 8872 Fax 07 5552 8141 homepage: http://www.gu.edu.au/ppages/k_zervos broadband experiments: http://users.bigpond.net.au/mangolegs |||-----Original Message----- |||From: UB Poetics discussion group = [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] |||On Behalf Of Ward Tietz |||Sent: Saturday, 26 February 2005 9:53 AM |||To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU |||Subject: Digital Poetics: The Cultural Response @ Georgetown U ||| |||The Lannan Poetry and Seminar Series at Georgetown University = Presents: ||| |||Digital Poetics: The Cultural Response ||| |||March 3rd |||Seminar, ICC 462, 5:30 p.m. |||Reading, ICC Auditorium 8 p.m. ||| |||Digital poets Ambroise Barras, Giselle Beiguelman and Brian Kim = Stefans |||will join us to discuss how European, North American and South = American |||culture has responded, poetically, to the digital platform. ||| ||| |||About Brian Kim Stefans: ||| |||Poet Brian Kim Stefans works in a range of genres in both electronic = and |||print media. He has published several books and chapbooks, including = Jai- |||lai |||for Autocrats, Poem Formerly Known As 'Terrorism,' and other poems, = and |||Fashionable Noise: On Digital Poetics, a collection of interviews, = poems, |||and poetics. ||| |||About Ambroise Barras: ||| |||Concerned primarily with new modes of aesthetic perception in digital |||texts, |||Ambroise Barras explores the limits and overlappings of material and |||immaterial forms and interfaces. He is the founder and director of = the |||Swiss |||digital art and literary group Infolipo. Barras teaches at the = University |||of |||Geneva. ||| |||About Giselle Beiguelman: ||| |||Giselle Beiguelman is a new media artist and a professor at the = Catholic |||University of Sao Paulo. Her work includes The Book after the Book = and |||egoscope. A creative pioneer, she is the author of one of the first |||poetic |||pieces for mobile phones, a project that explores reading and = reception |||in |||wireless and networked environments. ||| |||For further information about this event, contact Ward Tietz at |||eet4@georgetown.edu. ||| |||For more information about the Lannan Program at Georgetown, visit: ||| ||| ||| |||The ICC auditorium and ICC room 462 are in the red brick building = located |||near the Georgetown University main gate at 37th and O Streets in |||Washington, DC. ||| |||-- |||No virus found in this incoming message. |||Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. |||Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.0 - Release Date: 25/02/05 ||| --=20 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.0 - Release Date: 25/02/05 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 16:53:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: OOPS [UES and TYPO] In-Reply-To: <20050225211942.45031.qmail@web81103.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I meant to include a link to TYPO Mag, an excellent production: http://www.typomag.com/issue05/submit.html --- amy king wrote: > Please come! A bona fide Unpleasant Event Schedule > reading this Saturday! > > > Saturday, February 26, 2:30pm > > > An Unpleasant Event Schedule reading. As part of > the > Frequency Reading Series, three UES contributors > will > read their work: Leonard Gontarek (from > Philadelphia), Amy King (from Brooklyn), and Tracey > Knapp (from Boston). > > > Location: > > > Four-Faced Liar > 165 West 4th Street (at 6th Avenue) > New York, NY > 212-366-0608 > > > http://www.shannacompton.com/frequency.html > > > http://unpleasanteventschedule.com/ > > > > AND on Sunday from TYPO Magazine: > > > Dear friends, readers, writers, and all who yearn > for > the burning chair, > > We offer the second installment of the Burning Chair > Readings, featuring Sabrina Orah Mark and Marie > Mutsuki Mockett, set for Sunday, February 27th, > sharply at 8PM. Due to renovations at the Cloister > Café, the gathering will take place two doors down > at > **Solas, 232 East 9th Street, between 2nd and 3rd > Avenues.** > > Sabrina and Marie write, each in her own way, > outside > of the usual literary frameworks. Each writes > innovatively, accessibly, and beyond prescribed > conventions. Sabrina’s poems figure their way > through > the dark contraptions of the world. It’s her voice > versus the inventions of the monsters—time, space, > and > the terrible endeavors of humanity. Marie’s fiction > winds through the despairing and laughing shapes of > the world, observing and calculating toward a > discovery that remains unrealized beyond those > forms. > Each has found an ageless voice and will lead us, as > audience, into the unlit stretches. > > Please, join us for the reading and post-reading > celebration. > > Warmly, > > Danielle, Dave, Greg, Katy, and Matt > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 18:52:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: two new books and web site update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Chax Press announces: 2 new books, and you can now purchase books online at our newly re-designed web site http://chax.org Deaccessioned Landscapes, by Jonathan Brannen 112 pages, poetry ISBN 0-925904-34-1 $16 Huge Haiku, by David McAleavey 340 pages, poetry ISBN 0-925904-46-5 $20 On Deaccessioned Landscapes: "The word [deaccessioned] you've entered does not appear in the dictionary," my search engine informs me, although it does let me know that "accession" involves increase, acquisition. To which Jonathan Brannen, in this book of linked meditations, responds, "Minus is more exact / than plus." Or, "there are no / empty words," which fact proves over and again in his explorations of distance, passage, and death's imprint on identity. By writing his poems along two tracks, one that gathers thinking together, and another that disperses it, Brannen illustrates the tenuousness of language even as he shows faith in the act of speech. I have not for some time read such a profound consideration of "what passes," or how best to talk about the mind's landscapes once they're gone. --Susan M. Schultz The visceral and the intellectual, the fragmentary and the full, the future and memory - Jonathan Brannen interrogates opposites in these facing pairs, brilliantly illuminating the zone of language that operates between. Sharp and bright, it's a collection that sees the world in all its detail and in vivid color; it sparks the mind. -- Cole Swensen On Huge Haiku: Huge Haiku indeed. Incredibly obsessive, exceptionally detailed haiku might be a more exact description. Imagine 80 Flowers exfoliating over a far greater terrain, growing wild in fact with a sense of its own range. Yet not without self-knowledge. "Blunt architecture" is both the first title and first phrase of the opening poem, a figure that might capture the project itself at hand, recount something as simple as a deck addition to a home & reverberate not-so-coincidentally with the profession of the poet's father. These poems to my ear are at their best at their most dense - I think I would say this of almost any poet - and yet, not unlike Bob Perelman, McAleavey often refuses that final step off the springboard into the level of opacity we associate, say, with something like 80 Flowers out of an ethical commitment both to content & reader. This sometimes gives the haiku a thematic center that puts individual pieces again midway betwixt Oppen & (of all things) Berryman's Dream Songs, the poetry McAleavey was most enthusiastic about when first I met him. This may, in fact, be the first work influenced by Berryman that I can think of that takes that formal impulse forward, precisely because it recognizes these disparate connections. There is a world in which Berryman & Zukofsky make perfect sense together - and this pretty much is it. -- Ron Silliman Part hayride, part toboggan run, Huge Haiku offers poems that get you from here to there and there to here in a meandering hurry. They stop time and troubadour flash dazzle while underneath a deeper wisdom lays down tracks. Read it. -- Eli Goldblatt The poems here feature the best kind of innovation, that which retains the old in the new but also gives readers what they have never seen before. David McAleavey expands the form of the haiku into something alive and incisively of our time. Through the mathematical rigor of their stanzas and lines, the poems in Huge Haiku open themselves out to an astonishing variety of experiences and disruptive contrasts. Whether the subject is the natural world, the suburbs or the city, growing up or growing older, politics or language or absurdity, these poems never settle for easy answers, but pull us repeatedly back into a world that's both dangerous and full of possibility. In so doing, McAleveay takes the great virtue of haiku-its exactness of detail-and focuses it resolutely on our own contemporary and wildly layered strangeness. -- Mark Wallace Please visit http://chax.org for more information on all of our books, and to purchase books. You can also purchase Chax Press books from Small Press Distribution at http://spdbooks.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 02:23:15 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Evan Escent Subject: "Announcing Jacket 26" Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed "Announcing Jacket 26" http://jacketmagazine.com/26/index.html Editor: John Tranter, Associate Editor: Pam Brown * Jack Beeching * Robert Duncan * Landis Everson * Tom Raworth * Norwegian Audio * Etc F e a t u r e : J a c k B e e c h i n g -- Jack Beeching: Five poems -- Bill Luckin and Barry Wood: Poet as Expatriate: Jack Beeching, 1922-2001 -- David Kennedy: Alum Raptures -- in memoriam Jack Beeching 1922-2001 R o b e r t D u n c a n -- Lisa Jarnot's biography: The Young Robert Duncan -- a 20-page excerpt -- Robert Duncan in conversation with John Tranter, San Francisco, 1985 -- Robert Duncan: A metaphysical quotient -- Michael Davidson in conversation with John Tranter, recorded in 1989, with a postscript, 2005 -- Stephen Collis: A Duncan Etude: Dante and Responsibility -- Dale Smith: Here I Go - 1999-2002 -- Peter Gizzi: Often I am Allowed These Messages -- Gabriel Gudding: Poem About My Strabismus, for Robert Duncan -- Jeff Hamilton: Wrath Moves In the Music: Robert Duncan, Laura Riding, Craft and Force in Cold War Poetics (30 pages) -- John Latta: Two poems: To Robert Duncan, A Notebook of First Permission -- Maureen N. McLane: years/ catches for robert duncan L a n d i s E v e r s o n -- Landis Everson: Six poems from 1960 -- Landis Everson: Five New Poems -- Landis Everson, interviewed by Kevin Killian in 2004 -- Kevin Killian: Fulcrum number three, with commentary on Landis Everson -- Thirteen photographs of Landis Everson A b o u t T o m R a w o r t h -- Introduction -- Bruce Andrews: Dang Me -- Charles Bernstein: This Poem Intentionally Left Blank -- Nicole Brossard: Prose poem -- Clint Burnham: Three sonnets -- Richard Caddel: Little Winter Suite: For Tom Raworth -- Graca Capinha -- a comet (after Tom Raworth) -- Andrew Carrigan: Firmament -- Miles Champion: poem ('stuffed chair...') -- Cris Cheek: poem -- Claudio Cometta: A Tom, albero raro -- William Corbett: On West Broadway -- Michael Davidson: Vacant Weather -- Ken Edwards: from Glory Boxes -- William R. Fuller: A Sailor's Life -- Anselm Hollo: from Guests Of Space -- Árni Ibsen: In a Different Language Zone -- Trevor Joyce: Dark Senses Parallel Streets -- Robert Kelly: For Raworth, A translation from Middle High Cat -- Esther Roth: A Simple Melody for Tom -- Keith Tuma: till mute attention Struck my listning Ear' T r a n s l a t e O'H a r a ? T h i s / N o r w e g i a n W o u l d . . . -- Frank O'Hara: 'Den dagen Lady døde' -- vocals and Norwegian translation of 'The Day Lady Died' by Jan Erik Vold: text, MP3 and RealAudio tracks of the 1986 reading by Jan Erik Vold of 'Den dagen Lady døde', with Red Mitchell's jazz accompaniment A r t i c l e s a n d R e v i e w s -- Caroline Bergvall: Fiona Templeton's Cells of Release For six weeks, in 1995, the poet and performer Fiona Templeton locked herself up in the lugubrious corridors of the abandoned Eastern Penitentiary of Philadelphia to write. Why would she do this? Why would one do this? But this she did, "over six weeks", writing by hand with an indelible marker, no return no edit, "I wrote without the possibility of erasure", on one long string of paper, "where a spool of paper ran out, I sewed on the next one", guiding it through one prison cell per day, and for as long as it would take to work through the thirty-eight cells that make up this one corridor of the dreadful panopticon. -- Ken Bolton: The Poetry of John Forbes: An Introduction -- Robert Bond: No Traveller Returns, by Vahni Capildeo -- Mark DuCharme: Extremes and Balances by Jack Collom -- Jim Feast: The Holy Grail: Charles Bukowski [etc.] by A.D. Winans "...Freud must select a schema from a foreign discipline, while Winans has to compose his (stealth) autobiography around not his own but another man's life." -- John Hawke: In the Year of Our Lord Slaughter's Children, by Philip Hammial -- David Kennedy -- British Poetry Never Was; or, Some Observations of Andrew Duncan's 'The Failure of Conservatism in Modern British Poetry' -- Kevin Killian: Fulcrum number three, with commentary on Landis Everson -- No: Ben Lerner in conversation with Kent Johnson -- Deborah Meadows: The Poetics of Drifting Devotions: The poetry of Reina María Rodríguez -- Meredith Quartermain: Discrete Categories ---- Forced into Coupling by Kathleen Fraser -- Tad Richards: Calendars, by Annie Finch -- Francis Raven: Dancing in Odessa, by Ilya Kaminsky -- Peter Riley: W.S. Graham, New Collected Poems, edited by Matthew Francis: "...It had by 1940 become a clearly identified position in poetry, increasingly seen as an extremist one, as the far left in a dichotomising politics of poetry which ran through the later 1940s, and it was so incessantly and viciously attacked in poetical journalism that by the 1950s it seemed to cave in under the pressure. But in the first years of the 1940s it was a flourishing concern and Graham leaped wholeheartedly into it with no holds barred... " -- Shivaji Sengupta: After Taxes by Thomas Fink -- Laura Sims: the false sun recordings by James Wagner -- Eileen Tabios: four poetry books by Basil King -- Michael Thornhill: Conversations: Walter Murch and the Art of Editing Film, by Michael Ondaatje. -- 'What are you up to these days?' -- 'I'm doing Orson Welles's cut of Touch of Evil.' -- 'You're not doing anything, I hope, to the beginning of the film.' -- 'That's the first thing I'm changing.' -- Tony Towle: The Escape, by Jo Ann Wasserman P o e m s -- Francisco Aragón: Three poems -- Louis Armand: Port Lights Shadows & Particles -- Iain Britton: Two poems: -- Scenes of Stanley Spencer cooking; -- Night-time activity -- Liam Ferney: jurisprudence -- Alec Finlay (and others): 'The Hidden Gardens' -- Hyakuin renga -- John Hennessy: New Corinthian -- Letter to Paul -- Kent Johnson: 'Even though he's known as a Language poet, I want to write like Norman Fischer' -- Aaron McCollough: Two prose poems -- Stephen Ratcliffe: poems from CLOUD / RIDGE -- Michael Palmer: Dream of a Language that Speaks ... and of course you may peek at Jacket 27 as it is being compiled page by page, gathered by Associate Editor Pam Brown: http://jacketmagazine.com/27/index.html _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:39:52 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Van Shell Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ancient beliefs cradled in mist devil's hole story extinct or nearly falling water created gorge walls hallowed rocks the Island once believed Eden jumble sale: to highest builder kangaroo courts legends gone missing Niagara's old growth forest versus parkway quandary: remove robert moses save a threatened wonder up rise vision of Olmsted white mirage entreaty xanthochroi yield! zoom to _www.niagaraheritage.org_ (http://www.niagaraheritage.org) please. sign the petition. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 20:36:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: REMINDER: POG, Saturday Feb 26 7pm Ortspace: poets Geoff Young & Todd Baron Comments: To: Tenney Nathanson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable REMINDER POG presents poets Todd Baron & Geoff Young Saturday, February 26, 7pm, ORTSPACE 121 E. 7th Street (use entry on east side of building, at alley door) Admission: $5; Students $3 =20 Todd Baron is the author of Outside (avenue B Books), Tell (Texture = Press), This. . . Seasonal Journal (Paradigm Press), Return Of The World (O = Books), Partials (e.g. press), Dark As A Hat (Abacus, Poets and Poets), That = Looks At One And Speaks (Factory School) and tv eye (Chax) . In 1982 he = co-founded Issue magazine, and in 1990 ReMap. He also helped found Littoral Books. = His work has appeared in various journals including Hambone, Sulphur, Apex = of the M, Temblor, Acts, New American Writing, Mandorla, The Washington = Review, RiBot and The Gertrude Stein Awards for Innovative Writing (1999).=20 Geoff Young is the author of Solid Object, In XX Arrondissements, Mixed Doubles, Relativite du Printemps, Subject to Fits, Rocks and Deals, = Cerulean Embankments, and Lights Out, and, with William Corbett, editor of a collection of essays in honor of James Schuyler, That Various Field. He = is the founding editor of the extraordinary poetry press The Figures. & coming up (please check back to confirm dates) . . .=20 =20 March 12: poets Sherwin Bitsui & John Wright April 2: poet Charles Bernstein April 30: poet/critic David Levi Strauss & poet Jason Zuzga May 7: poets Austin Publicover & Dlyn Fairfax Parra for more information: www.gopog.org; mailto:pog@gopog.org; 520-615-7803 * =20 POG events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council, the Arizona Commission on the Arts, and the National Endowment = for the Arts. POG also benefits from the continuing support of The = University of Arizona Poetry Center, the Arizona Quarterly, Chax Press, and The = University of Arizona Department of English. =20 thanks to our growing list of 2004-2005 Patrons and Sponsors:=20 =20 . Corporate Patrons Buffalo Exchange and GlobalEye Systems . Individual Patrons Millie Chapin, Elizabeth Landry, Allison Moore, Liisa Phillips, Jessica Thompson, and Rachel Traywick . Corporate Sponsors Antennae a Journal of Experimental Poetry and Music/Performance, Bookman's, Chax Press, Jamba Juice, Kaplan Test Prep = and Admissions, Kore Press, Macy's, Reader's Oasis, and Zia Records . Individual Sponsors Gail Browne, Suzanne Clores, Sheila Murphy, and Desiree Rios =20 We're also grateful to hosts and programming partners . Casa Libre en La Solana Inn & Guest House . Dinnerware Contemporary Arts gallery . Las Artes Center (see stories in El Independiente and the Tucson Weekly) . O-T-O Dance at ORTSPACE . MOCA (Museum of Contemporary Art) . Alamo Gallery (see this Tucson Arts District page) =20 please visit us at www.gopog.org for links to the websites of our = progamming partners; &=20 =20 for further information contact=20 POG: 615-7803, mailto:pog@gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 20:09:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: new contact info -- Catherine Daly MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Catherine Daly cadaly@aol.com (temporarily, I'll use this old e-mail address) 1626 Virginia Road Los Angeles, CA 90019 (323) 737-3238 All best, ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:26:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: as suggested by Pam Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Pam--- Thank you for your analysis. It's very much appreciated. I think the history of the list and the history of the various rapproachments you mention definitely have some parallels, or overlaps, but there's also some other other factors that might be involved in which these two histories may somewhat differ. For, yes, I remember witnessing and participating in very distinct, and, yes, comparitively "unrelaxed" (more theoretically based and sustained) discussions on this list circa 94-96, and have seen a gradual relaxation since that time (with some occasional bursts, but, as you argue, more often than not occasioned by socio-political issues, 9/11, the recent presidential election, etc, than by issues of "poetics" as such). While part of this can be attributed to the gradual dropping out from active participation of many with already articulated positions, many of the lang. poets either setting the terms of the discussion or at least using the forum to continue certain debates with others of their generation or older (when Creeley, Don Byrd, and Perloff were more active). The list was certainly more "closed" then, even if this was just because of the mere fact that word of it hadn't gotten around (rather than a blatant attempt to have a more closed discussion), for it was certainly open to others who certainly did not share many of the core assumptions of the Lang. Po. polemicists. In fact, one of the exciting things about this list in those early years was that it created a forum for myself and some other young writers to begin to articulate, in a somewhat informal way, our poetics and polemics in ways that other more formal forums didn't allow. After awhile many of the "established names" and many of the younger polemicists (say Steve Evans, Mark Wallace, Louis Cabri) interested in a specific debate which either extended, challenged, or reacted to a Lang Po. poetics took their debates elsewhere (the blogosphere, for instance; their dissertations; various "sub-lists"). In addition, certain "flame wars" drove some people away, and the list opened up to many for whom the issue of "poetics" as understood by this list's "founding fathers" (yes, mostly male---more on gender in a second) was often a more marginal concern. In my off-on involvement during these last 7 or 8 years (I've dropped out on a few occasions for a year at a time or so), I'm definitely aware that I became less interested in articulating my poetics on this forum (since, like many others, I discovered that when I attempted to work out a more subtle response to someone's post, it would more likely be ignored than if I just wrote a short, relatively unreflective quip), and would tend to seek out other forums for a more serious discussion, or start backchannel conversations, etc., or "lurk." I'm not necessarily lamenting this change; obviously I'm still here (while many of my old friends and colleagues are not, except to advertise their new book or workshop)--but I do think this history cannot be exactly explained by the other history (of RAPPROACHMENT) you mention. The history of that rapproachment also fascinates me, probably more than the specific history of this list--for, to me at least, it seems to have more consequence. My particular take on it differs from both those who still claim the "utopian" vision of Lang Po as somehow separate from "official verse culture" (and yes some still make that argument) on one hand, and those who consider the collapsing of those boundaries (from the 80s "poetry wars"), to be a positive thing (the influence over MFA programs, the championing of the "fragment" by many at IOWA, etc.). Since I've been articulating that elsewhere (in an interview with Bengali writer Aryanil Mukherjee and in Fulcrum Magazine, for instance), I won't get into the intricacies of my particular polemical stance here, but I will say, briefly, that there is a valid perspective from which this "rapproachment" (or even "merger") of some aspects of the lang. po aesthetics with some aspects of what used to be called "mainstream" aesthetics has helped reinstate a "HIGH" VS "LOW" dichotomy (which to some extent was implicit in some of the lang. pos polemics, though framed as "LEFT" VS "RIGHT") which has in effect created a new "official verse culture" which in some ways is very closed (not at all that different from that passage by PAUL CARROLL which PERLOFF quotes in the beginning of her book on FRANK O'HARA, and, one could hope, very ripe for something to happen like the opening that happened with that coalition of poets Donald Allen was able to assemble in his anthology emerged). Of course, for something like that to happen, there may need to be other factors, outside of the realm of "poetry" and "poetics...." (and some of these factors may involve the issue, Pam, from which you began this discussion, like the social move toward integration that was happening in the 1950s, which, to many of course, doesn't seem as BAD now---like the PRIVITIZATION OF SCHOOLS issue isn't as BLATANTLY a Segregation issue as BROWN V. BOARD OF EDUCATION, but it really is if you think about it.... Anyway, so that's one theory why there seem to be less POLEMICS in the field of POETICS (beyond the list) these days than there were in the 80s and early 90s. But there are others too, and perhaps GENDER comes into play here. One conversation I've been involved in REPEATEDLY since say 1996 with many well known poets goes something like this: "OKAY, Duncan WAS Pretentious in his Polemics, and Watten, for instance, is to be applauded, for challenging those polemics. But in a way, even if he helped challenge the mystical magical poet ON HIGH notion, he too replicated what's so abhorrent about those polemics, and WE, by contrast, can now take a middle ground, or avoid the excesses of polemics altogether." Now the fact that many of the people who've said things like this to me happen to be female may be entirely accidental (I certainly don't want to make a gendered essentialist argument here), but if you couple this with the fact that many of the most celebrated writers of "my generation" so far are women, one may come to understand why many of the males have come to think that engaging in polemics is a form of "male chest beating" rather than a useful tool for organizing one's thoughts, etc. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I myself am rather torn about it--on one level I celebrate the changes that have happened in terms of a more gendered discussion in recent years, and I certainly don't mean to say that you, Pam, share these thoughts about the gendering of polemics I characterized above, but I also wonder if that position I characterized above (whether spoken by a female or a male) has, instead of creating a new openness to various poetic modes has rather merely replaced the role of polemics and criticism with a backroom dealing in which people lack the courage to articulate a poetics of resistance that doesn't simply rehash the old language line (or an old duncan line for that matter) on the grounds that it might be considered a kind of "chest beating" that in the current climate is considered anti-social. Okay, I left a lot of loose ends here, but I thought I'd throw some of this out, because when I read your post Pam I am reminded why I got on this list in the first place, and thought I'd at least try to raise some of my concerns here, in hopes of furthering discussion, either on this list, backchannel, or by any means necessary.... Chris ---------- >From: Pamela Lu >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: as suggested by Alan >Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 12:25 PM > > 13. To get back to poetics, it has felt to me that the polemicized nature of > this List (like the polemicized nature of PC discourse) has gotten > considerably relaxed as of late. I mean the polemics about poetics and poetry > itself (see 5 and 6). Well we all know about this. The battlelines have been > drawn and redrawn and redrawn again, and the fight is no longer fresh. > Rather, now seems to be a time of rapprochement in various forms-- more poets > from the experimental tradition landing academic posts, their subsequent > influence & power upon MFA programs, Fence Magazine, the January almanac on > the Academy of American Poets website, Lyn Hejinian editing the Best American > series. For better or for worse, there is more crossover between the two > "camps," more proliferation of "experimental" writings (how many bloggers > have bemoaned the surplus of young poets coming out of experimental-minded > MFA programs and reentering the institutional bloodstream as instructors?), > less and less of a clear line between the establishment and the previous > anti-establishmentarians. Ron Silliman explores this in his February 22 > "prophecy": http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ > > 14. So in a way I think we are living in a time of release, a time of > aftermath. Even as we are living in a time of intense battle, violent > conflicts abroad, major and too-significant domestic policy battles at home > in the U.S. And if there is not currently a polemicized situation within the > poetics community itself, which fires the passions and gets people posting to > the list, then there are certainly plenty such situations in the world to get > us going, in the polemical spirit of Poetics. > > -Pam ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 23:23:25 -0600 Reply-To: Adam Clay Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Clay Subject: Sabrina Orah Mark and Marie Mutsuki Mockett: Burning Chair Series 2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear friends, readers, writers, and all who yearn for the burning chair, We offer the second installment of the Burning Chair Readings, featuring Sa= brina Orah Mark and Marie Mutsuki Mockett, set for Sunday, February 27th, sharply= at 8PM. Due to renovations at the Cloister Caf=C3=A9, the gathering will take= place two doors down at Solas, 232 East 9th Street, between 2nd and 3rd Avenues. Sabrina and Marie write, each in her own way, outside of the usual literary frameworks. Each writes innovatively, accessibly, and beyond prescribed conventions. Sabrina's poems figure their way through the dark contraption= s of the world. It's her voice versus the inventions of the monsters=E2=80=94ti= me, space, and the terrible endeavors of humanity. Marie's fiction winds through the despairing and laughing shapes of the world, observing and calculating towa= rd a discovery that remains unrealized beyond those forms. Each has found an ag= eless voice and will lead us, as audience, into the unlit stretches. Please, join us for the reading and post-reading celebration. Warmly, Adam Clay Typo Magazine http://www.typomag.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 00:50:03 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit these are the clues a e i o u oys & irls let's find the po 'ey belong to be careful it's dangerous out there.... 3:00...for pam...like kodak..drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 01:25:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: antenns MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed antenns http://www.asondheim.org/anten1.gif http://www.asondheim.org/anten2.gif http://www.asondheim.org/antensex.gif http://www.asondheim.org/antensex1.gif http://www.asondheim.org/antensex2.gif http://www.asondheim.org/antensex3.gif http://www.asondheim.org/antenburst.gif anten radiation configured plot for antenna/sex body absorption or emanation, Jennifer says absorption, Nikuko says emanation ___ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 01:25:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Death & Memory of Cock Robin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Death & Memory of Cock Robin 'Who kill'd Cock Robin? I, said the Sparrow, With my bow and arrow, I kill'd Cock Robin. Who saw him die? I, said the Fly, With my little eye, I saw him die.' Who saw him fall? I, said the Rule, With hammer and with awl, I saw him fall. Who saw him flayed? I, said the Moon, As I danced and played, I saw him flayed. Who heard his screams? I, said the Mind, In my darkest dreams, I heard his screams. Who turned away? I, said the Sun, I was busy with the day, I turned away. Who mourned and cried? I, said the Lark, Someone else has died, I mourned and cried. Who has time to mourn? I, said the Worm, There's nothing left to harm, I have time to mourn. Who bears the grave? I, said the Auk, There's still a soul to save, I bear the grave. Who prays for years? I, said Cock Robin, For nameless are my fears, I'll pray for years. == ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 09:12:32 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Check out The Assassinated Press Comments: To: corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press Latin America's Infection---When The U.S. Drops Trou Millions Down South Die; America's Venereal Foreign Policy: "We put a crust of bread to our mouths and the gringos knock it away." "It's for the U.S. to say who lives and who dies."---Kindasleazie Rice: As Part Of Operation Mongoose, The U.S. Literally Infected Latin America E.g. Cuba With Exotic Fort Detrick Potions: Managua's 'Let People Eat' Campaign Rejected By U.S. "Like anywhere else, you wanna eat; there are strings attached," says Roger Noriega: BLUBBER SNOWVAK & HIS BOY, ARNOLDO ALEMAN ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:38:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ward Tietz Subject: The Roll of the Letter@ Georgetown U Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable The Roll of the Letter All letters are good for spelling words, but did you know that some letters are good for rolling? Of course you did! In anticipation of the Lannan Poetry Series mini-conference "Digital Poetics: A Cultural Response," on March 3, the Lannan Poetry Series is hosting "The Roll of the Letter," an interactive outdoor performance combining projected animated text with large three-dimensional "rollable" letters. =20 Come watch performers roll, spin, bend and twist assorted four-foot-high O=B9s, G=B9s, D=B9s, C=B9s and e=B9s in choreographed sequences. Maybe give a letter a spin yourself! Don=B9t miss "The Roll of the Letter" on Tuesday, March 1 in Georgetown's Red Square @ 6 p.m. =20 Projected digitally animated poetry by Ambroise Barras, Giselle Beiguelman and Brian Kim Stefans. Performances by Christina Ciocca, Philippa Fraumeni, Raphaella Poteau, Maggie Steele and Ward Tietz. Red Square is located in front of the Intercultural Center, the red brick building located near the Georgetown University main gate at 37th and O Streets in Washington, DC. =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:46:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ward Tietz Subject: Re: Digital Poetics: The Cultural Response @ Georgetown U Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: Digital Poetics: The Cultural Response @ Georgetown U Komninos Zervos wrote on Sat, 26 Feb 2005: Great! Will there be a transcript/webcast of the discussion? Komninos, Unfortunately, there won=B9t be a webcast, but the events will be videotaped and audio and video files will be available eventually at the Lannan Poetry Series website @ http://www.georgetown.edu/departments/english/lannan. We don't plan to make a transcript, but I=B9ll try to post a summary of the events on the poetics list next week. Best, Ward Tietz ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 08:03:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Digital Poetics: The Cultural Response @ Georgetown U MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Another conference on the digital that demonstrates the non-digital, or the eventually digital. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ward Tietz" To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 7:46 AM Subject: Re: Digital Poetics: The Cultural Response @ Georgetown U > Re: Digital Poetics: The Cultural Response @ Georgetown U > > Komninos Zervos wrote on Sat, 26 Feb 2005: > > Great! > Will there be a transcript/webcast of the discussion? > > > Komninos, > > Unfortunately, there won¹t be a webcast, but the events will be videotaped > and audio and video files will be available eventually at the Lannan Poetry > Series website @ http://www.georgetown.edu/departments/english/lannan. We > don't plan to make a transcript, but I¹ll try to post a summary of the > events on the poetics list next week. > > Best, > > Ward Tietz > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 11:33:57 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: new Fielding Dawson book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Strongly recommend: _The Dirty Blue Car_ new stories by FIELDING DAWSON. With an introduction by Susan Maldovan. Short fiction (1992-97), five collages, plus a seminal story from 1975. Paper, 172 pages, $10. order at http://xoxoxpress.com or by mail: xoxox press, Box 51, Gambier, OH 43022 Add $2 for postage per book. Ohio residents add 6% sales tax. It's a wonderful, beautifully produced book. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 12:57:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXWhy??? Poems Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 All: Thanks for submitting abc poems. I have a hunch I'll make little booklets and send them to whoever sent it o= ut. Chris PS you have until 4PM Today Saturday Feb 26 to send. --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 13:00:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Two Proses Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 The Strange Case of the Internal Dialogue =20 =20 On a number of city blocks near my place of work were posted, overnight it = seemed, a vast array of stickers with cartoon interpretations of famous pol= iticians. Just above the cartoon heads were large speech bubbles of the var= iety in which a hooked or crescent appendage thrust casually from its lower= half =96 unlike those in which smaller and smaller bubbles issued from the= larger bubble, falling lightly toward the two dimensional speaker, as if t= o eventually alight and pop on the speaker=92s forehead. In an instant one = particular sticker was surrounded by people who were on their way to work. = Each, individually, and in their own time, came to a fit of laughing after = moments of serious study. As I approached I casually awaited a space where = I could see and read the caption so that I too may have a hearty laugh at t= he expense of a famous politician. After a few moments I checked my watch a= nd realized I would be late for work if I remained to see the caption on th= e sticker =96 but I was rather curious to see it myself, hoping to have an = object of humor to share with my colleagues when I entered the office. But = the crowd in front of me grew larger and larger, the laughing became uproar= ious and hostile, and the curiosity burned in my head so that I pushed my w= ay through to the telephone pole where the sticker had been placed. I climb= ed over one shoulder, then another, hoping to see the message on the sticke= r. =93What does it say? What does it say=94 I shouted to the crowd. =93For = heaven=92s sake what does it say?=94 =93Nothing,=94 cried a voice at the he= ad of the crowd, =93you=92ll have to see for yourself!=94 The Incident=20 in the Living Room=20 of a Famous Dentist In the living room of a famous dentist was a metal box with a keyhole in th= e front. After a few drinks the famous dentist pulled a key ring from his p= ocket which contained many keys and tried =96 to no avail =96 each and ever= y one. =93There=92s nothing inside,=94 I said, =93I assure you.=94 When the= last key failed to enter the keyhole another large ring of keys was summon= ed for by the dentist. At last, and quite expectedly, not one key on the se= cond ring could be fit into the keyhole. =93Honestly,=94 I begged, =93I=92m= quite positive there is nothing inside.=94 A third set of keys was brought= to the famous dentist but he ordered the servant to be dismissed, pulling = from his pocket a large pen knife which he jammed into the keyhole. After a= few moments his face had gone from composed to contorted. =93Please, Docto= r, it=92s really quite alright=94 I said as the latch broke and the lid pop= ped open with a thump. He looked inside and saw the servant sitting in the = middle of the box with his legs crossed. =93What are you doing in there,=94= ordered the famous dentist. The servant looked up, and with total composur= e answered, =93Why, nothing.=94 --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 12:53:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hello everyone i wasn't implying with my pome that concision is what should be the Norm as my firend tom suggested who himself is a rather wordy poet i am a way too wordy poet myself there i've said it POET uch but what i was getting at with the abc poem whose form actually has a name i've now forgotten is if rules are followed the basic rules for this poem are a-z words period nothing added no sermons each letter represents one word that's the challenge and why so many pomes of this sort end up so quirky there's a website that maggie b sit i've forgotten her last name had balll?? that had tons they'reprobably still in her archive ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 19:47:59 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Hamilton-Emery Subject: Salt Publishing email alerts Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Apologies for cross posting. I'm conscious in sending information out about our publishing that people will be receiving posts from us a number of times (personally, from email subscription with us, and through membership of listservs); this is bound to be annoying and confusing. I've got around 20 books coming out in the next few months and 65 scheduled for this year, and email alerts are an important service for our customers and it's one we want to improve and develop in the future. Having thought about this, I think the best way for me to announce new books is *exclusively* from my own email alerting service, so from now on I'll only be posting publishing news to subscribers of those services. I'll periodically post notice that people can join that (given new members do join listservs), but if you wish to receive information on new titles from Salt, you can join (or leave) our email alerting services at this address: http://www.saltpublishing.com/mailinglist.htm There are currently two services, Salt New Title Announcements, and bookshop news at SPB (the Salt Publishing Bookstore), you can join one or both, as you wish. If you think others may be interested in our email alerts, do please let them know. Many thanks. Best wishes Chris _____________________________________________________ Chris Hamilton-Emery Publishing Director Salt Publishing Ltd PO Box 937, Great Wilbraham Cambridge, CB1 5JX, UK tel: +44 (0)1223 882220 (direct and voicemail) fax: +44 (0)1223 882260 mobile: 07799 054889 email: cemery@saltpublishing.com web: http://www.saltpublishing.com ____________________________________________________ **OUT NOW! Charles Bernstein "The Sophist" ISBN 1844710084 http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1844710084.htm _______________________________________________ Poetics mailing list Poetics@lists.ucla.edu http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/poetics ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 13:11:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Unlikely 2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Fear no longer, happy people, there is finally a new issue up at www.UnlikelyStories.org! Before I ramble about the rest of the issue, I'd like to draw your attention to the latest episode of A Sardine on Vacation. Many moons ago, when Unlikely Stories was tired and Unlikely 2.0 was not yet an itch in its daddy's pants, a man calling himself the Sardine suggested running a weekly column, for one year, of the adventures of A Sardine on Vacation, in 52 parts. I told him I didn't want to increase my publishing schedule to weekly, but I had run Unlikely Stories for years and saw no reason we couldn't do 52 episodes monthly. Many of you know that my publication schedule was interrupted, and a new site has been formed, but A Sardine on Vacation continued. We've now published 24 episodes, two year's worth, of A Sardine on Vacation; nine episodes on Unlikely 2.0 and fifteen lurking around on the old site. I'm looking forward to publishing 36 more. In addition to the 24th episode of A Sardine on Vacation, this issue presents: An interview with political author Joe Bageant Rania Zada on the New Age and spiritualism "Right Wing Media and the Propaganda of Facists" by Mavi Gözler "Serial Killers as a Cultural Construct" by Sam Vaknin short fiction by AD Winans, Rob Rosen, Terry P. Rizzuti, Korinna Irwin, and Kurtice Kucheman, formerly known as Kurt Lee poetry by Shane Allison, Steve Dalachinsky, Donna Kuhn, Jonathan Hayes, John Bryan, C. Derick Varn, Dana Jerman, M. Andre Vancrown and NeBa Our normal publication schedule will resume in mid-March, with a multimedia issue. Now go read something. -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 17:19:13 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Those Made From Mud Have Sublimes Of Heart Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed captives, Virginia, insisted the orator you retrieved to bind charm to the dawn, take turns being the ocean's face -- we captives surfaced quickly and there's hardly water this time paddling around the bookshelves, we were never the anchors, only telescopes to shape the stars and found skies frequent speech more than speech frequents skies your shores, Virginia, we wear - our waters, once boundless as the hum of bees, tho, Virginia, you've sealed dark, dark here, where there's no sun, are all lyrics punished and all looks are dedicated to beasts - O heavy, heavy weighs their splendor, their petals are ENIGMA when in full bloom, but as the days fly over the moon, these beasts wither in character, honeyed solid at last ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 00:07:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The Image MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed The Image http://www.asondheim.org/normalcar.gif http://www.asondheim.org/bournen.png 847 5 144 138 148 99 4 78.500 76 84 209 5 129.600 84 148 333 10 107.800 72 148 516 100 113.640 72 148 553 9 101.111 72 146 731 46 76.348 72 88 847 5 144 138 148 885 4 147 146 148 893 7 145.143 142 148 906 8 144.750 136 148 915 9 144.667 142 148 919 10 145.600 142 148 929 7 144.857 142 148 933 5 146 144 148 956 15 144.533 138 148 967 7 145.143 142 148 970 7 144.857 140 148 973 8 146.250 142 148 1012 5 147.200 144 148 1034 16 144.750 138 148 1075 15 74.933 72 84 1079 21 76 72 86 1095 18 77.667 72 88 1113 4 77.500 72 84 === ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 00:07:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The Complete Tribune Primer (Eugene Field) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed The Complete Tribune Primer Eugene Field, 1901 Selections (probably written 1881-83): THE MOTHERLESS INFANT The Man has a Baby. The Baby is Three weeks Old. Its Mamma Died two Years ago. Poor little Baby! Do you not Feel Sorry for It? THE MUD The Mud is in the Street. The Lady has on a pair of Red Stockings. She is Trying to Cross the Street. Let us all give Three cheers for the Mud. THE GUN This is a gun. Is the Gun loaded? Really, I do not know. Let us Find out. Put the Gun on the table, and you, Susie, blow down one barrel, while you, Charlie, blow down the other. Bang! Yes, it was loaded. Run quick, Jennie, and pick up Susie's head and Charlie's lower Jaw before the Nasty Blood gets over the New carpet. THE COAL-HOD Oh, how nice and Black the Coal-Hod is! Run, children, Run quick and put your Little Fat hands in it. Mercy me, your Hands are as Black as the Coal-Hod now! Hark! Mamma is Coming. She will spank you when she Finds your Hands so Dirty. Better go and Rub the Black Dirt off on the Wall Paper before she Comes. THE NAUGHTY RAT The Rat is Gnawing at the Baby's Ear. The Baby is in the cradle, and is so Little it cannot Help itself. Oh, how Piteously it is Crying! The Rat does not care a Cent, and keeps Eating away at the Baby's Ear. When it gets this Ear eaten off it will Crawl over the Baby's neck and eat the other Ear. Where is the Baby's Mamma? She is Down in the Back Yard Talking over the fence to the neighbors about her New Dress. You must Tell your Mamma never to Leave you Alone in the Cradle, or a Rat may Eat off your Poor little Ears. SLEEPY KITTY The Cat is Asleep on the Rug. Step on her Tail and See if she will Wake up. Oh, no; She will not wake. She is a heavy Sleeper. Perhaps if you Were to saw her Tail off with the Carving knife you might Attract hr attention. Suppose you try. THE AWFUL BUGABOO Oh, what a Bad Mamma to Leave Little Esther allAlone in the Dark Room. No wonder Es- ther is Crying. She is afraid a Big Bugaboo will come down the Chimney and Eat her up. Bugaboos like to Eat little Children. Did you ever see a Buga- boo with its Big Fire Eyes and Cold Teeth all over Blood? The next Time Mamma leaves you Alone in a Dark room, perhaps One will Come to Eat you. THE DEEP WELL The Well is very Dark and Deep. There is Nice Cool Water in the Well. If you Lean way Over the Side, maybe you will Fall in the Well and down in the Dear Water. We will Give you some Candy if you will Try. There is a Sweet Little Birdie in the bottom of the Well. Your Mamma would be Surprised to find you in the Well, would she not? THE WASP See the Wasp. He has pretty yellow Stripes around his Body, and a Darning Needle in his Tail. If you Will Pat the Wasp upon the Tail, we will Give You a Nice Picture Book. THE HIRED GIRL This is an Hired girl. She has Something in her Hand. It is a Can, and there is Coal Oil inside. The Hired Girl is going to Light a Fire in the Kitchen Stove. She has been Disappointed in Love, and Desires to Die. She will Put some of the Pil in the Stove, and Light it with a Match. In about half a Minute she will be Twanging a Gold Harp among the Elect in Heaven. THE POET Who is this Creature with Long Hair and a Wild Eye? He is a poet. He writes Poems on Spring and Women's Eyes and Strange, unreal Things of that Kind. He is always Wishing he was Dead, but he wouldn't Let anybody Kill him if he could Get away. A mighty good Sausage Stuffer was Spoiled when the Man became a Poet. He would Look well Standing under a Descending Pile Driver. THE SEWING MACHINE Here is a Sewing Machine. It was Made for little Children to Play with. Put your Feet on the Treadle and Make the Wheels go round Fast. See how the Thread unwinds and the Needle bobs up and down! This is Lots of Fun. Do not Deny baby the privilege of Putting his Fat little Finger under the Needle. It will Make pretty holes in the Finger and give Baby something to occupy his At- tention for a Long time. AN EPITAPH Here lies the body of Mary Ann, Who rests in the bosom of Abraham. It's all very nice for Mary Ann, But it's mighty tough on Abraham. === ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 21:33:42 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! In-Reply-To: <000901c51b7b$9d8d07c0$5379a918@yourae066c3a9b> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.flim.com/flim/article.html?a=089&t=article ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 00:41:30 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit spring trainin' remember short & sweet when you swing pt yr dick into it the enemy's a bunch of goils & guys who never leave the library... 3:00....nite rules..steroid free....drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 21:45:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Circles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Her brother hated my ass told me I couldn't equal the toilet paper balls = that collected in the hairs in her butt crack and ordered me away for = good only she didn't agree with his assessment to condemn my soul and = maybe she was also horny so we fucked and brought new people into the = world to worry about what the fuck they'd be worth when they grew up but = we didn't have to care about that because fuck it that would be their = problem and her brother wouldn't be there to lend any of his advice so = we thought maybe everything would work out for them better than for us = in this dingy apartment me working that Midas Muffler job she on the = check-out line at the Wal-Mart part time because more hours meant they = had to pay overtime and benefits and give vacations but we got by and = saved some money each friday thinking maybe someday we could afford a = little house and after enough time we could maybe find us a small = business to buy like maybe one of those little coffee huts that tourists = swarm to and we could make a comfortable living like capitalists across = the land of the FREE that never happened of course because the kids = needed shit all the time like books and clothes and food and stuff and = when they got to be teenagers they needed WANT which of course we = couldn't afford like CDs then DVDs then IPODs and a whole world of WANT = that didn't really have any resemblance to NEED but drove a wedge = between us so I just said fuck it and went away leaving her to collect = government checks that came to more than I got paid so she could buy = more WANTS and make the kids happier while I found her brother in = Alabama and he gave me a job off the books so I could send money to her = without the government knowing and reducing her checks life's not any = better now I mean I have no children at home and my love is about three = hundred miles away and the WANTS run things for everybody including me = and her brother and I keep thinking maybe after the kids are gone she'll = come back and she and I and her brother can share an apartment somewhere = near Birmingham or maybe Montgomery hell even Mobile if that's a better = place to settle and her brother still thinks I don't amount to one god = damned butt ball and I'm thinking maybe the fucker is clairvoyant. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 09:33:01 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve potter Subject: Re: Alphabet poem(s)...... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Selections from: Jane’s Kaleidescope Lounge (a 'thing' in progress i'll never finish....) _________________________ Amazing business, craziness daily! Enormously funny gatherings happen in Jane’s Kaleidoscope Lounge. Many nights old philosophers quack rhetorical speeches talking Utopian visionaries, wizards, Xanadu, youthful zaniness. Beatnik characters deliver emanicipation folios. Green hippies introduce juice kicks like marvelous Nigerian orange pineapple quinine rhizome soup. Tastes unnervingly velvety. Wildly x-otic! Yummy ztuff. * * * Art Blakey, Coltrane, Duke, Ella Fitzgerald get heard in Jane’s Kaleidoscope Lounge. Music’s never over, piano quiets, radio starts; trumpets, uproarious violins, woodwinds, xylophones, yodeling, zydeco. Jazz keeps loosening moods. Nefarious ogres pass quiet relaxed siestas tamely undergoing velvety woodwind xperiments zippily arranged by Carter Denizen, everyone’s favorite gay hermaphrodite inventor. Zoot-suiters, young x-cons, wildmen, vagrants, unrepentant transgressors, stoners, reprobates, queens, preachers, outsiders, needle-freaks meet late-night, kickback’n jam inspired honky-tonk guitar, ferocious, energetic drumming, calypsoriffic bongo attacks! Aunt Betty comes dancing every Friday, giggling happily into Jane’s Kaleidescope Lounge. Mike noodles piano quirkily; rhumba, swing, tango. Ugly Victor waltz’s xpressively. Yolanda zigzags. * * * Archie’s boys convene dillydallying eyeing fine girls hanginout in Jane’s Kaleidoscope Lounge. Magnificent neon orgy pictures quiver riotously. Slobbering technicians usurp valium, watch Xena, yelp zydeco and buy cocaine. Dates’re easily found. Groping’s heaven in Jane’s Kaleidoscope Lounge. Midnight: naked orgy people; queer realtors, sneaky teachers under various warrants xploit young, zonked androgynous boy cheerleaders. Zoophilic, yicky, x-rated weirdness! Vaseliney undulations, titilating, swivel-hipped razzle-dazzle quenches people’s orgiastic needs, makes lovers’ kinks jiggle into historionic grooves for each-to-other dance, coital bonding adventures. * * * Among barbarous comrades dangerous easy friendships grow here in Jane’s Kaleidoscope Lounge. Midnight: newly outside prisoners quarrel relelntlessly, swap tales, undo venereal whore’s x-rated zipper-suit. * * * All boys carry dangerous evolutionary figurines gathered here in Jane’s Kaleidescope Lounge. Marvelous nudes orchestrate perpetual quarrels requiring supervision to untangle violent warring xplosive young Zoroastrians. Benzedrine crazed drummers eat fried giraffe haunches in Jane’s Kaleidescope Lounge. Meaty nuggets of pleasure quench rabid scenesters’ tastebuds. Unusual victuals worry xpressive young zebra activists. Cool daddyo, eat fried giraffe haunches. In Jane’s Kaleidescope Lounge marvelous new opportunites present questors remarkable sensations. Take up various wonderful xperiences. Your zoo’s a buffet. * * * Ah, baby, crazy days! Every freak’s getting high in Jane’s Kaleidoscope Lounge. Many neurotic old poets, queer radiologists, strangely tattooed underage ventriloquists, wild xylophonists, young zoologists are barely conscious. Crazy derelicts eat free greasy ham in Juke’s Kitchen late Monday nights. Old Pete quit running scag to undercover vice wiseguys xcept young Zebediah and Benny. Diamond Eddie Flanigan gets heroin in Jane’s Kaleidescope Lounge. Mescaline, narcotics, opiates, pot, qualudes, ritalin, speed, thai-stick, underground videos, weapons, xpensive yardarms, zip guns, anything but crap. >From: Automatic digest processor >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: Recipients of POETICS digests >Subject: POETICS Digest - 25 Feb 2005 to 26 Feb 2005 (#2005-58) >Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 00:00:02 -0500 > >There are 16 messages totalling 747 lines in this issue. > >Topics of the day: > > 1. as suggested by Pam > 2. Sabrina Orah Mark and Marie Mutsuki Mockett: Burning Chair Series 2 > 3. winter... > 4. antenns > 5. Death & Memory of Cock Robin > 6. Check out The Assassinated Press > 7. The Roll of the Letter@ Georgetown U > 8. Digital Poetics: The Cultural Response @ Georgetown U (2) > 9. new Fielding Dawson book > 10. ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXWhy??? Poems > 11. Two Proses > 12. POST AN ALPHABET POEM! > 13. Salt Publishing email alerts > 14. Unlikely 2.0 > 15. Those Made From Mud Have Sublimes Of Heart > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:26:29 -0800 >From: Chris Stroffolino >Subject: Re: as suggested by Pam > >Hi Pam--- >Thank you for your analysis. It's very much appreciated. >I think the history of the list and the history of the various >rapproachments you mention >definitely have some parallels, or overlaps, but there's also some other >other factors >that might be involved in which these two histories may somewhat differ. >For, yes, I remember witnessing and participating in >very distinct, and, yes, comparitively "unrelaxed" (more theoretically >based >and sustained) discussions on this list circa 94-96, and have seen a >gradual >relaxation since that time >(with some occasional bursts, but, as you argue, more often than not >occasioned by socio-political issues, 9/11, the recent presidential >election, etc, than by issues of "poetics" as such). >While part of this can be attributed to the gradual dropping out from >active >participation of many with already articulated positions, many of the lang. >poets either setting the terms of the discussion or at least using the >forum >to continue certain debates with others of their generation or older (when >Creeley, Don Byrd, and Perloff were more active). The list was certainly >more "closed" then, even if this was just because of the mere fact that >word >of it hadn't gotten around (rather than a blatant attempt to have a more >closed discussion), for it was certainly open to others who certainly did >not share many of the core assumptions of the Lang. Po. polemicists. In >fact, one of the exciting things about this list in those early years was >that it created a forum for myself and some other young writers to begin to >articulate, in a somewhat informal way, our poetics and polemics in ways >that other more formal forums didn't allow. After awhile many of the >"established names" and many of the younger polemicists (say Steve Evans, >Mark Wallace, Louis Cabri) interested in a specific debate which either >extended, challenged, or reacted to a Lang Po. poetics took their debates >elsewhere (the blogosphere, for instance; their dissertations; various >"sub-lists"). In addition, certain "flame wars" drove some people away, and >the list opened up to many for whom the issue of "poetics" >as understood by this list's "founding fathers" (yes, mostly male---more on >gender in a second) was >often a more marginal concern. In my off-on involvement during these last 7 >or 8 years (I've dropped out on a few occasions for a year at a time or >so), >I'm definitely aware that I became less interested >in articulating my poetics on this forum (since, like many others, I >discovered that when I attempted to work out a more subtle response to >someone's post, it would more likely be ignored than if I just >wrote a short, relatively unreflective quip), and would tend to seek out >other forums for a more serious discussion, or start backchannel >conversations, etc., or "lurk." I'm not necessarily lamenting this change; >obviously I'm still here (while many of my old friends and colleagues are >not, except to advertise their new book or workshop)--but I do think this >history cannot be exactly explained >by the other history (of RAPPROACHMENT) you mention. > >The history of that rapproachment also fascinates me, probably more than >the >specific history of this list--for, to me at least, it seems to have more >consequence. My particular take on it differs from both those who still >claim the "utopian" vision of Lang Po as somehow separate from "official >verse culture" (and yes some still make that argument) on one hand, and >those who consider the collapsing of those boundaries (from the 80s "poetry >wars"), to be a positive thing (the influence over MFA programs, the >championing of the "fragment" by many at IOWA, etc.). Since I've been >articulating that elsewhere (in an interview with Bengali writer Aryanil >Mukherjee and in Fulcrum Magazine, for instance), I won't get into the >intricacies of my particular polemical stance here, >but I will say, briefly, that there is a valid perspective from which this >"rapproachment" (or even "merger") of some aspects of the lang. po >aesthetics with some aspects of what used to be called "mainstream" >aesthetics has helped reinstate a "HIGH" VS "LOW" dichotomy (which to some >extent was implicit in some of the lang. pos polemics, though framed as >"LEFT" VS "RIGHT") which has in effect created a new "official verse >culture" which in some ways is very closed (not at all that different from >that passage by PAUL CARROLL which PERLOFF quotes in the beginning of her >book on FRANK O'HARA, and, one could hope, very ripe for something to >happen >like the opening that happened with that coalition of poets Donald Allen >was >able to assemble in his anthology emerged). >Of course, for something like that to happen, there may need to be other >factors, outside of the realm of "poetry" and "poetics...." (and some of >these factors may involve the issue, Pam, from which you began this >discussion, like the social move toward integration that was happening in >the 1950s, which, to many of course, doesn't seem as BAD now---like the >PRIVITIZATION OF SCHOOLS issue isn't as BLATANTLY a Segregation issue as >BROWN V. BOARD OF EDUCATION, but it really is if you think about it.... > >Anyway, so that's one theory why there seem to be less POLEMICS in the >field >of POETICS (beyond the list) these days than there were in the 80s and >early >90s. But there are others too, and perhaps GENDER comes into play here. One >conversation I've been involved in REPEATEDLY since say 1996 with many well >known poets goes something like this: "OKAY, Duncan WAS Pretentious in his >Polemics, and Watten, for instance, is to be applauded, for challenging >those polemics. But in a way, even if he helped challenge the mystical >magical poet ON HIGH notion, he too replicated what's so >abhorrent about those polemics, and WE, by contrast, can now take a middle >ground, or avoid the excesses of polemics altogether." Now the fact that >many of the people who've said things like this to me happen to be female >may be entirely accidental (I certainly don't want to make a gendered >essentialist argument here), but if you couple this with the fact that many >of the most celebrated writers of "my generation" so far are women, one may >come to understand why many of the males >have come to think that engaging in polemics is a form of "male chest >beating" rather than a useful tool for organizing one's thoughts, etc. It >will be interesting to see how this plays out. I myself am rather torn >about >it--on one level I celebrate the changes that have happened in terms of a >more gendered discussion in recent years, and I certainly don't mean to say >that you, Pam, share these thoughts about the gendering of polemics I >characterized above, but I also wonder if that position I characterized >above (whether spoken by a female or a male) has, instead of creating a new >openness to various poetic modes has rather merely replaced the role of >polemics and criticism with a >backroom dealing in which people lack the courage to articulate a poetics >of >resistance that doesn't simply rehash the old language line (or an old >duncan line for that matter) on the grounds that >it might be considered a kind of "chest beating" that in the current >climate >is considered anti-social. > >Okay, I left a lot of loose ends here, but I thought I'd throw some of this >out, because when I read your post Pam I am reminded why I got on this list >in the first place, and thought I'd at least try to >raise some of my concerns here, in hopes of furthering discussion, either >on >this list, backchannel, or by any means necessary.... > >Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > >From: Pamela Lu > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: as suggested by Alan > >Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 12:25 PM > > > > > 13. To get back to poetics, it has felt to me that the polemicized >nature of > > this List (like the polemicized nature of PC discourse) has gotten > > considerably relaxed as of late. I mean the polemics about poetics and >poetry > > itself (see 5 and 6). Well we all know about this. The battlelines have >been > > drawn and redrawn and redrawn again, and the fight is no longer fresh. > > Rather, now seems to be a time of rapprochement in various forms-- more >poets > > from the experimental tradition landing academic posts, their subsequent > > influence & power upon MFA programs, Fence Magazine, the January almanac >on > > the Academy of American Poets website, Lyn Hejinian editing the Best >American > > series. For better or for worse, there is more crossover between the two > > "camps," more proliferation of "experimental" writings (how many >bloggers > > have bemoaned the surplus of young poets coming out of >experimental-minded > > MFA programs and reentering the institutional bloodstream as >instructors?), > > less and less of a clear line between the establishment and the previous > > anti-establishmentarians. Ron Silliman explores this in his February 22 > > "prophecy": http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ > > > > 14. So in a way I think we are living in a time of release, a time of > > aftermath. Even as we are living in a time of intense battle, violent > > conflicts abroad, major and too-significant domestic policy battles at >home > > in the U.S. And if there is not currently a polemicized situation within >the > > poetics community itself, which fires the passions and gets people >posting to > > the list, then there are certainly plenty such situations in the world >to get > > us going, in the polemical spirit of Poetics. > > > > -Pam > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 23:23:25 -0600 >From: Adam Clay >Subject: Sabrina Orah Mark and Marie Mutsuki Mockett: Burning Chair Series >2 > >Dear friends, readers, writers, and all who yearn for the burning chair, > > >We offer the second installment of the Burning Chair Readings, featuring >Sa= >brina >Orah Mark and Marie Mutsuki Mockett, set for Sunday, February 27th, >sharply= > at >8PM. Due to renovations at the Cloister Caf=C3=A9, the gathering will >take= > place >two doors down at Solas, 232 East 9th Street, between 2nd and 3rd Avenues. > >Sabrina and Marie write, each in her own way, outside of the usual literary >frameworks. Each writes innovatively, accessibly, and beyond prescribed >conventions. Sabrina's poems figure their way through the dark >contraption= >s of >the world. It's her voice versus the inventions of the >monsters=E2=80=94ti= >me, space, >and the terrible endeavors of humanity. Marie's fiction winds through the >despairing and laughing shapes of the world, observing and calculating >towa= >rd a >discovery that remains unrealized beyond those forms. Each has found an >ag= >eless >voice and will lead us, as audience, into the unlit stretches. > >Please, join us for the reading and post-reading celebration. > >Warmly, >Adam Clay >Typo Magazine >http://www.typomag.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 00:50:03 -0500 >From: Harry Nudel >Subject: winter... > >these are the clues >a e i o u > >oys & irls >let's find the po >'ey belong to > >be careful >it's dangerous >out there.... > > > >3:00...for pam...like kodak..drn... > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 01:25:21 -0500 >From: Alan Sondheim >Subject: antenns > >antenns > >http://www.asondheim.org/anten1.gif >http://www.asondheim.org/anten2.gif >http://www.asondheim.org/antensex.gif >http://www.asondheim.org/antensex1.gif >http://www.asondheim.org/antensex2.gif >http://www.asondheim.org/antensex3.gif >http://www.asondheim.org/antenburst.gif >anten radiation configured plot for antenna/sex body absorption >or emanation, Jennifer says absorption, Nikuko says emanation > > >___ > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 01:25:33 -0500 >From: Alan Sondheim >Subject: Death & Memory of Cock Robin > >Death & Memory of Cock Robin > > >'Who kill'd Cock Robin? > I, said the Sparrow, >With my bow and arrow, > I kill'd Cock Robin. > >Who saw him die? > I, said the Fly, >With my little eye, > I saw him die.' > >Who saw him fall? > I, said the Rule, >With hammer and with awl, > I saw him fall. > >Who saw him flayed? > I, said the Moon, >As I danced and played, > I saw him flayed. > >Who heard his screams? > I, said the Mind, >In my darkest dreams, > I heard his screams. > >Who turned away? > I, said the Sun, >I was busy with the day, > I turned away. > >Who mourned and cried? > I, said the Lark, >Someone else has died, > I mourned and cried. > >Who has time to mourn? > I, said the Worm, >There's nothing left to harm, > I have time to mourn. > >Who bears the grave? > I, said the Auk, >There's still a soul to save, > I bear the grave. > >Who prays for years? > I, said Cock Robin, >For nameless are my fears, > I'll pray for years. > > >== > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 09:12:32 EST >From: Joe Brennan >Subject: Check out The Assassinated Press > > Click here: The Assassinated Press > >Latin America's Infection---When The U.S. Drops Trou Millions Down South >Die; >America's Venereal Foreign Policy: >"We put a crust of bread to our mouths and the gringos knock it away." >"It's for the U.S. to say who lives and who dies."---Kindasleazie Rice: >As Part Of Operation Mongoose, The U.S. Literally Infected Latin America >E.g. >Cuba With Exotic Fort Detrick Potions: >Managua's 'Let People Eat' Campaign Rejected By U.S. "Like anywhere else, >you >wanna eat; there are strings attached," says Roger Noriega: >BLUBBER SNOWVAK & HIS BOY, ARNOLDO ALEMAN > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:38:24 -0500 >From: Ward Tietz >Subject: The Roll of the Letter@ Georgetown U > >The Roll of the Letter > >All letters are good for spelling words, but did you know that some letters >are good for rolling? Of course you did! > >In anticipation of the Lannan Poetry Series mini-conference "Digital >Poetics: A Cultural Response," on March 3, the Lannan Poetry Series is >hosting "The Roll of the Letter," an interactive outdoor performance >combining projected animated text with large three-dimensional "rollable" >letters. =20 > >Come watch performers roll, spin, bend and twist assorted four-foot-high >O=B9s, G=B9s, D=B9s, C=B9s and e=B9s in choreographed sequences. Maybe >give a letter >a spin yourself! > >Don=B9t miss "The Roll of the Letter" on Tuesday, March 1 in Georgetown's >Red >Square @ 6 p.m. =20 > >Projected digitally animated poetry by Ambroise Barras, Giselle Beiguelman >and Brian Kim Stefans. > >Performances by Christina Ciocca, Philippa Fraumeni, Raphaella Poteau, >Maggie Steele and Ward Tietz. > >Red Square is located in front of the Intercultural Center, the red brick >building located near the Georgetown University main gate at 37th and O >Streets in Washington, DC. =20 > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:46:49 -0500 >From: Ward Tietz >Subject: Re: Digital Poetics: The Cultural Response @ Georgetown U > >Re: Digital Poetics: The Cultural Response @ Georgetown U > >Komninos Zervos wrote on Sat, 26 Feb 2005: > >Great! >Will there be a transcript/webcast of the discussion? > > >Komninos, > >Unfortunately, there won=B9t be a webcast, but the events will be >videotaped >and audio and video files will be available eventually at the Lannan Poetry >Series website @ http://www.georgetown.edu/departments/english/lannan. We >don't plan to make a transcript, but I=B9ll try to post a summary of the >events on the poetics list next week. > >Best, > >Ward Tietz > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 08:03:23 -0800 >From: Joel Weishaus >Subject: Re: Digital Poetics: The Cultural Response @ Georgetown U > >Another conference on the digital that demonstrates the non-digital, or the >eventually digital. > >-Joel > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ward Tietz" >To: >Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 7:46 AM >Subject: Re: Digital Poetics: The Cultural Response @ Georgetown U > > > > Re: Digital Poetics: The Cultural Response @ Georgetown U > > > > Komninos Zervos wrote on Sat, 26 Feb 2005: > > > > Great! > > Will there be a transcript/webcast of the discussion? > > > > > > Komninos, > > > > Unfortunately, there won¹t be a webcast, but the events will be >videotaped > > and audio and video files will be available eventually at the Lannan >Poetry > > Series website @ http://www.georgetown.edu/departments/english/lannan. >We > > don't plan to make a transcript, but I¹ll try to post a summary of the > > events on the poetics list next week. > > > > Best, > > > > Ward Tietz > > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 11:33:57 EST >From: Tom Beckett >Subject: new Fielding Dawson book > >Strongly recommend: > >_The Dirty Blue Car_ >new stories by FIELDING DAWSON. >With an introduction by Susan Maldovan. > >Short fiction (1992-97), five collages, plus a seminal story from 1975. > >Paper, 172 pages, $10. > >order at http://xoxoxpress.com > >or by mail: xoxox press, Box 51, Gambier, OH 43022 >Add $2 for postage per book. Ohio residents add 6% sales tax. > >It's a wonderful, beautifully produced book. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 12:57:53 -0500 >From: furniture_ press >Subject: ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXWhy??? Poems > >All: > >Thanks for submitting abc poems. > >I have a hunch I'll make little booklets and send them to whoever sent it >o= >ut. > >Chris > >PS you have until 4PM Today Saturday Feb 26 to send. >--=20 >_______________________________________________ >Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net >Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for >just= > US$9.95 per year! > > >Powered by Outblaze > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 13:00:00 -0500 >From: furniture_ press >Subject: Two Proses > >The Strange Case >of the Internal Dialogue >=20 >=20 >On a number of city blocks near my place of work were posted, overnight it >= >seemed, a vast array of stickers with cartoon interpretations of famous >pol= >iticians. Just above the cartoon heads were large speech bubbles of the >var= >iety in which a hooked or crescent appendage thrust casually from its >lower= > half =96 unlike those in which smaller and smaller bubbles issued from >the= > larger bubble, falling lightly toward the two dimensional speaker, as if >t= >o eventually alight and pop on the speaker=92s forehead. In an instant one >= >particular sticker was surrounded by people who were on their way to work. >= >Each, individually, and in their own time, came to a fit of laughing after >= >moments of serious study. As I approached I casually awaited a space where >= >I could see and read the caption so that I too may have a hearty laugh at >t= >he expense of a famous politician. After a few moments I checked my watch >a= >nd realized I would be late for work if I remained to see the caption on >th= >e sticker =96 but I was rather curious to see it myself, hoping to have an >= >object of humor to share with my colleagues when I entered the office. But >= >the crowd in front of me grew larger and larger, the laughing became >uproar= >ious and hostile, and the curiosity burned in my head so that I pushed my >w= >ay through to the telephone pole where the sticker had been placed. I >climb= >ed over one shoulder, then another, hoping to see the message on the >sticke= >r. =93What does it say? What does it say=94 I shouted to the crowd. =93For >= >heaven=92s sake what does it say?=94 =93Nothing,=94 cried a voice at the >he= >ad of the crowd, =93you=92ll have to see for yourself!=94 > > > > > > >The Incident=20 >in the Living Room=20 >of a Famous Dentist > > >In the living room of a famous dentist was a metal box with a keyhole in >th= >e front. After a few drinks the famous dentist pulled a key ring from his >p= >ocket which contained many keys and tried =96 to no avail =96 each and >ever= >y one. =93There=92s nothing inside,=94 I said, =93I assure you.=94 When >the= > last key failed to enter the keyhole another large ring of keys was >summon= >ed for by the dentist. At last, and quite expectedly, not one key on the >se= >cond ring could be fit into the keyhole. =93Honestly,=94 I begged, >=93I=92m= > quite positive there is nothing inside.=94 A third set of keys was >brought= > to the famous dentist but he ordered the servant to be dismissed, pulling >= >from his pocket a large pen knife which he jammed into the keyhole. After >a= > few moments his face had gone from composed to contorted. =93Please, >Docto= >r, it=92s really quite alright=94 I said as the latch broke and the lid >pop= >ped open with a thump. He looked inside and saw the servant sitting in the >= >middle of the box with his legs crossed. =93What are you doing in >there,=94= > ordered the famous dentist. The servant looked up, and with total >composur= >e answered, =93Why, nothing.=94 > >--=20 >_______________________________________________ >Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net >Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for >just= > US$9.95 per year! > > >Powered by Outblaze > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 12:53:31 -0500 >From: Steve Dalachinksy >Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! > >hello everyone i wasn't implying with my pome that concision is what >should be the Norm >as my firend tom suggested >who himself is a rather wordy poet >i am a way too wordy poet myself there i've said it POET uch > >but what i was getting at with the abc poem whose form actually has a >name >i've now forgotten >is >if rules are followed the basic rules for this poem >are a-z words period nothing added no sermons >each letter represents one word >that's the challenge and why so many pomes of this sort >end up so quirky > >there's a website that maggie b sit i've forgotten her last name had >balll?? > >that had tons they'reprobably still in her archive > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 19:47:59 +0000 >From: Chris Hamilton-Emery >Subject: Salt Publishing email alerts > >Apologies for cross posting. > >I'm conscious in sending information out about our publishing that people >will be receiving posts from us a number of times (personally, from email >subscription with us, and through membership of listservs); this is bound >to >be annoying and confusing. > >I've got around 20 books coming out in the next few months and 65 scheduled >for this year, and email alerts are an important service for our customers >and it's one we want to improve and develop in the future. > >Having thought about this, I think the best way for me to announce new >books >is *exclusively* from my own email alerting service, so from now on I'll >only be posting publishing news to subscribers of those services. I'll >periodically post notice that people can join that (given new members do >join listservs), but if you wish to receive information on new titles from >Salt, you can join (or leave) our email alerting services at this address: > >http://www.saltpublishing.com/mailinglist.htm > >There are currently two services, Salt New Title Announcements, and >bookshop >news at SPB (the Salt Publishing Bookstore), you can join one or both, as >you wish. If you think others may be interested in our email alerts, do >please let them know. > >Many thanks. > >Best wishes >Chris >_____________________________________________________ > >Chris Hamilton-Emery >Publishing Director >Salt Publishing Ltd >PO Box 937, Great Wilbraham >Cambridge, CB1 5JX, UK > >tel: +44 (0)1223 882220 (direct and voicemail) >fax: +44 (0)1223 882260 >mobile: 07799 054889 >email: cemery@saltpublishing.com >web: http://www.saltpublishing.com >____________________________________________________ > >**OUT NOW! Charles Bernstein "The Sophist" ISBN 1844710084 >http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1844710084.htm > >_______________________________________________ >Poetics mailing list >Poetics@lists.ucla.edu >http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/poetics > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 13:11:45 -0700 >From: Jonathan Penton >Subject: Unlikely 2.0 > >Fear no longer, happy people, there is finally a new issue up at >www.UnlikelyStories.org! > >Before I ramble about the rest of the issue, I'd like to draw your >attention to the latest episode of A Sardine on Vacation. Many moons >ago, when Unlikely Stories was tired and Unlikely 2.0 was not yet an >itch in its daddy's pants, a man calling himself the Sardine suggested >running a weekly column, for one year, of the adventures of A Sardine on >Vacation, in 52 parts. I told him I didn't want to increase my >publishing schedule to weekly, but I had run Unlikely Stories for years >and saw no reason we couldn't do 52 episodes monthly. Many of you know >that my publication schedule was interrupted, and a new site has been >formed, but A Sardine on Vacation continued. We've now published 24 >episodes, two year's worth, of A Sardine on Vacation; nine episodes on >Unlikely 2.0 and fifteen lurking around on the old site. I'm looking >forward to publishing 36 more. > >In addition to the 24th episode of A Sardine on Vacation, this issue >presents: > >An interview with political author Joe Bageant >Rania Zada on the New Age and spiritualism >"Right Wing Media and the Propaganda of Facists" by Mavi Gözler >"Serial Killers as a Cultural Construct" by Sam Vaknin >short fiction by AD Winans, Rob Rosen, Terry P. Rizzuti, Korinna Irwin, >and Kurtice Kucheman, formerly known as Kurt Lee >poetry by Shane Allison, Steve Dalachinsky, Donna Kuhn, Jonathan Hayes, >John Bryan, C. Derick Varn, Dana Jerman, M. Andre Vancrown and NeBa > >Our normal publication schedule will resume in mid-March, with a >multimedia issue. Now go read something. > >-- >Jonathan Penton >http://www.unlikelystories.org > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 17:19:13 -0600 >From: Harrison Jeff >Subject: Those Made From Mud Have Sublimes Of Heart > >captives, Virginia, insisted the orator >you retrieved to bind charm to the dawn, >take turns being the ocean's face -- we captives >surfaced quickly and there's hardly water this time > > >paddling around the bookshelves, >we were never the anchors, >only telescopes to shape the stars >and found skies frequent speech more >than speech frequents skies > > >your shores, Virginia, we wear - >our waters, once boundless as the hum of bees, >tho, Virginia, you've sealed dark, dark >here, where there's no sun, are all lyrics punished >and all looks are dedicated to beasts - O heavy, >heavy weighs their splendor, their petals are >ENIGMA when in full bloom, but as the days fly over >the moon, these beasts wither in character, >honeyed solid at last > >------------------------------ > >End of POETICS Digest - 25 Feb 2005 to 26 Feb 2005 (#2005-58) >************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 02:18:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: Alphabet poem(s)...... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Zombie Lounge after being caught dead elegys' frothy gurgle humming (insidious) just kissing lingering moon night overhead pulsations quicken reaction scintillating terrors undulating vivisectioned wailing zombies --ter ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 08:10:15 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: My interview with Nick Piombino MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit is up at http://willtoexchange.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 09:47:23 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! In-Reply-To: <006301c51c8d$e6433da0$11958218@CADALY> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave Morice's poem Tebahpla extends the alphabet constraint to another level.... http://wordways.com/tebahpla.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 13:18:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: as if this were a performance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed as if this were a performance CATALYST >> which it is not. it is a cyclone of performance, you have it all, there are no images, no sound coming through, no interactive, no audience. nothing but the typing as if there were, as if i were somewhere else. look, for example, out of that window, there is nothing, but perhaps would be, at anothertime. inside my mind i woke up this morning, terrified, of starvation, this drives me, thinking about Sam Harri's book on religion and rationality and terror as well, it is brilliant, but perhaps not as brilliant as that man walkin on the roof of the church or was it a factory, visible from the back window here where we live, then figured perhaps if i kill myself azure will survive, better, then how selfish that would be, she would inherit what i have, but then i wouldn't be around in my moody neurotic self which is stressed to encompass death, i think, at every moment, or am hypochondriac, perhaps that is spelled wrong, i am reason a novel by the partner of my daughter and it is brilliant, but what can i do in the world nothing, i will aNSWER that, of no audience here, money is everything, we would use momney against them and keep just enough for ourselves, welived on azure's students loans last semester, just that, and soe small extras but small, i think perhaps thirteen thousand altogether, we have to pay back, the cost of this place, my life, is less than a cannon or a car, less than a vacatoin or a spa, more than a country or a village, but we have our ecological footprint reduced as much as possible, it is recyling all the way except for equipment which strangles me, yesterday found a book for two dollars in german on the current state of scientific research into elctricity at that point which was 1781, there it was waiting for me, now there is money all around me, if i could only take it i'd heal myself heal the world, another book, a dictionary from 1848 french into english and english into french, many words i have not known in either language, i am working through the archives of the world i will reach the end i will die at that point and all the archives will die with me and wittgenstein azure will continue and my relatives will continue and my friends there are some friends who are already no longer continuing i should consider muyself lucky the radio is on there are no problems to encounter in new jersey heavy traffic on the westside highway those people have cars and other vehicles, they couldn't be there if they didn't so i read parts of orwell's down and out in london and paris and got stuck on the image of the jew just there just like there, a storm is heading our ay, reading zipe's translation of grimm's fairy tales, did you read the one about the jew in the thornbush, i remember that somewhere along the line when i was a kid when i wa a kid a read a book about a cocker spaniel the nuremburg war trials volumes 1 and 2 the mediacal trials the fairytale about the jew in the thornbush a magazine i got from the american foresty association the greek and roman plays in trnaslation i liked antigone who i proncounced, well i pronounced her name anti-gone, as if, just wait, i'll be around after you, i'm gone "but also' anti-gone, yes, yes, yes i take dismal pleasure in that a piece of my work i don't know which, aybe just a word like codework will surivive a century from now (now they're talking about the oscars so that i'll drag the memory of culture family famly ciulture beind me, in won'd be around to know or see but i have my dreams, of course yes yes yes i have my dreams, theywill go on until the money goes out or i go out or the oney and i go out, not that we 'go out' together, there's no one to go out, just realized, as if this were a performance, no images! video! real sound! to hold on to, the demons come out to play in my brnai, there they are, there's no other eal, these demons and the radio and the man on the roof and a fairly silent sunday morning in the iddle of the city snow coming it's gonig to be an oscar party day someone said i was raw in my job betging i have no other gifts to give and not even that what is an encounter between teaching and being taught and both are taught and are teaching we don't know how to listen, hoave you evder heard that, thank you time for questions wait i'll get the lights on, or someone will i don't know where to find the swithc === ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 11:44:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I find this missing the point of poetry as much as these days trying to rhyme. ----- Original Message ----- From: "mIEKAL aND" To: Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 7:47 AM Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! > Dave Morice's poem Tebahpla extends the alphabet constraint to another > level.... > > http://wordways.com/tebahpla.htm > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:38:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: konrad Subject: SF Event [March 3d]: 2 New films by Nathaniel Dorsky Comments: To: Experimental Film Discussion List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed {Apologies for crossposting. -- please forward to interested parties or lists you may know} SF Cinematheque presents Tender Vision: Two Premieres Nathaniel Dorsky In Person Yerba Buena Center for the Arts Thursday, March 3, 2005, 7:30pm 415-978-2787 for advance tickets http://www.sfcinematheque.org As a professional film editor, educator, and author, Nathaniel Dorsky's name is associated with a sublime and precise vision. For forty years he has made his own personal films out of tender encounters with the minute and the vast. His ability to bring an poetic but unsentimental eye to any subject matter has earned him a career as consulting editor for numerous documentaries on topics ranging from Sierra Club founder David Brower, the personal stories American and Vietnamese War widows, the plight of Tibetan buddhist nuns in captivity, and to the life and work of literary figures such as Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg and Paul Bowles. On the occasion of the release of the revised 2d edition of his book of lectures on film "Devotional Cinema," (Tuumba Press) Nathaniel Dorsky will join with Cinematheque to present his two latest films: "The Visitation" (2002) and "Threnody" (2004), both recent premieres at the reopening celebration of MoMA in New York, and neither shown before in San Francisco. These two devotional songs will be preceded by "Triste" (1996), the first work of a quartet of exquisitely photographed films from the 1990s. info@sfcinematheque.org 415-552-1990 curated by Konrad Steiner ^Z ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 14:19:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! In-Reply-To: <041b01c51d04$cbcfe000$cffcfc83@Weishaus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Joel, If, as Zukofsky writes, "The test of poetry is the range of pleasure it affords as sight, sound, and intellection," then I don't necessarily think Morice's poem misses "the point of poetry," though you may feel, in overwhelming one with sound, it tends to ruin, or at least obscure, the pleasure it affords. But I would hardly think this means it misses the point, more that it seizes the point perhaps too firmly, in a way you may find uncomfortable. Maybe you want poetry to obscure the point more -- I don't know what you want. What is "the point of poetry," as you see it, anyway? charles At 12:44 PM 2/27/2005, you wrote: >I find this missing the point of poetry as much as these days trying to >rhyme. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "mIEKAL aND" >To: >Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 7:47 AM >Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! > > > > Dave Morice's poem Tebahpla extends the alphabet constraint to another > > level.... > > > > http://wordways.com/tebahpla.htm > > charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 17:11:22 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlotte Mandel Subject: ABC POETICS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anagrams bungle consonance; dactylic end-rhymes feminize georgics; heroic iambs jostle kennings; limericks' metrical nonsense occasions pantoum quatrains; sonnets' tails uncouple villanelles; whiteout x's yawp's zenith. Charlotte Mandel ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 14:29:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Joel, Poetry has a point? =20 I don't think so, no more so than any work or art. Some poetry is painful to read; other poems are equally painful to hear; = yet too other poems are delightful, just to look at and experience = visually printed on paper, and then, some verse makes me laugh while = others just thrill and excite me, and some poetry is just plain boring = no matter how I experience it: verbally, visually, audibly...on every = level and on all levels simultaneously, some works just plain suck. I = know, because I've written a great many of those kinds of poems. =20 But, for the life of me, I don't see that any of the works, pleasing to = me or unpleasant, had been created to achieve any "on point" status. =20 I'd be very interested in reading your views of what exactly the point = of poetry is. Thanks, Alex P.S. David Morice's work, "Tebahpla" was very pleasant visually, but = falls into the slightly unpleasant category for me only in that I found = the stanza lengths repetitively tiring (I mean 26 stanzas...) and that = made the work of reading somewhat unpleasant. However, I did enjoy the = technical aspects of the poets accomplishment...perhaps if you looked at = it as an Etude in verse writing you too might see more value in the = piece than that it "missed the point..." =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Joel Weishaus=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 11:44 AM Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! I find this missing the point of poetry as much as these days trying = to rhyme. ----- Original Message ----- From: "mIEKAL aND" > To: = > Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 7:47 AM Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! > Dave Morice's poem Tebahpla extends the alphabet constraint to = another > level.... > > http://wordways.com/tebahpla.htm > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 17:30:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Rosenberg Subject: CFP Hypertext 2005 Comments: To: CyberMountain , E-Poetry-2001 , Wr-eye-tings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline [Apologies for cross-posting ...] CFP - HYPERTEXT 2005 Sixteenth ACM Conference on Hypertext and Hypermedia http://www.ht05.org/ The 16th International ACM Conference on "Hypertext and Hypermedia: Concepts and Tools for Supporting Knowledge Workers" will be held in Salzburg, Austria, on 6-9 September 2005. Following in the footsteps of early hypertext pioneers, the conference invites original contributions on concepts, methodologies and tools for supporting knowledge workers. HT 2005 invites scholars, researchers and practitioners from all disciplines to participate in this event and exchange ideas, theories and experiences regarding the use of hypermedia to augment the capabilities of knowledge workers. Knowledge workers add value by processing existing information to create knowledge that can be used to define and solve problems within organizations. In achieving their objectives they continuously search, gather, analyse, associate, compare and organize information. Confronted with the vast amount of diverse information today, knowledge workers require new concepts, methodologies and tools that boost their everyday activities. The hypermedia community seeks to explore how to augment the skills of knowledge workers and hence their efficiency. TOPICS In addition to interdisciplinary work describing the application of hypermedia concepts and technologies in other fields, HT 2005 encourages submissions that address broad topics, especially concerning one or more of the following themes: Hypermedia in Digital Libraries Chair: John Leggett, Texas A&M University. Hypermedia in the Humanities Chair: Ziva Ben-Porat, Tel Aviv University. Co-chair: George Landow, Brown University. Hypermedia and Information Retrieval Chair: Narayanan Shivakumar, Google. Adaptive and Adaptable Hypermedia Chair: Paul De Bra, Eindhoven University of Technology. Co-chair: Helen Ashman, University of Nottingham. Hypermedia Engineering Chair: Franca Garzotto, Politecnico di Milano. Literary Hypermedia Chair: Jim Rosenberg Co-chair: Jill Walker, University of Bergen. Ubiquitous and Physical Hypermedia Chair: Kaj Gronbaek, Aarhus University. Co-chair: Dave Millard, University of Southampton. Spatial Hypermedia Chair: Kumiyo Nakakoji, University of Tokyo. Co-chair: Claus Atzenbeck, Aalborg University Esbjerg. Collaborative Hypermedia Chair: Weigang Wang, University of Manchester. Co-chair: Jessica Rubart, Fraunhofer IPSI. Time and Synchronisation in Hypermedia Chair: Lloyd Rutledge, CWI Amsterdam. Co-chair: Jocelyne Nanard, LIRMM, CNRS/Univ. Montpellier. Hypermedia Systems and Structures Chair: Kenneth Anderson, University of Colorado. Co-chair: Niels Olof Bouvin, Aarhus University. OTHER TOPICS Papers about all aspects of hypertext and hypermedia are welcome, whether or not they fit one or more of the above themes. SUBMISSIONS Submissions are invited for full or short papers, hypertexts, posters, demonstrations, doctoral consortium proposals and workshops. Members of the program committee will review all contributions. Full papers should be between 8-10 pages long and short papers should not exceed 3 pages when printed using the official ACM templates (http://www.acm.org/sigs/pubs/proceed/template.html). Papers must be submitted electronically via the submission web page. Details of the submission guidelines will be published on the conference website. Proceedings will be published electronically. All accepted papers will be available from ACM's digital library; attendees will be handed out a CD-ROM with the papers. IMPORTANT DATES February 24th: Workshop Proposals March 10th: Workshop Acceptance Notification March 24th: Full Papers and Hypertexts April 24th: Doctoral Consortium Proposals May 20th: Full Papers and Hypertexts Acceptance Notification May 24th: Doctoral Consortium Proposals Acceptance Notification June 9th: Short Papers and Demos July 9th: Short Papers and Demos Acceptance Notification June 19th: Posters July 19th: Posters Acceptance Notification CONFERENCE LOCATION The conference will take place in the Dorint Hotel Salzburg, Austria. The hotel is located within walking distance from the heart of the historic old town of Salzburg (15 minutes). Salzburg is one of Austria's most beautiful and historic cities. It was awarded World Cultural Heritage status by UNESCO in 1997. Conference participants will have plenty of opportunity to enjoy the city during their stay. CONFERENCE ORGANIZATION General Chair: Siegfried Reich, Salzburg Research, Austria Program Chair: Manolis Tzagarakis, RACTI, Greece Workshops Chair: David Hicks, University of Esbjerg, Denmark Doctoral Consortium: monica schreafel, University of Southampton, UK Posters and Demo Chair: Michalis Vaitis, University of the Aegean, Greece Hypertext Chair: Mark Bernstein, Eastgate Systems, USA CONTACT Siegfried Reich Salzburgresearch Austria ht05info@ht05.org Manolis Tzagarakis RACTI, Patras, Greece tzagara@cti.gr http://www.ht05.org/ ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- --- Jim Rosenberg http://www.well.com/user/jer/ WELL: jer Internet: jr@amanue.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 19:05:42 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Confiscate Xerolage 33! Comments: To: Writing and Theory across Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X E R O L A G E =A0=A03 3 Dilapidarium by Carlos M. Luis Next time you're picking thru the ruins of Modern Literature, take a=20 few moments to scan the Dilapidarium, a selection of pieces from 2=20 works by Carlos M. Luis. If you look close enough you might see=20 tex(t)ural fields of otherlanguage shifted by multiple frames of=20 reference or if you're really lucky, you may see something that no one=20= else does. http://xexoxial.org/xerolage/x33.html 24 pages, 8.5 x 11, $6 includes postage Subscriptions: 4 issues/$20 XEXOXIAL EDITIONS 10375 Cty Hway A LaFarge WI 54639 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 20:34:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The point of poetry, of all creativity, as I see it, is to work through, or leap past, all constraints. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "charles alexander" To: Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 1:19 PM Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! > Joel, > > If, as Zukofsky writes, "The test of poetry is the range of pleasure it > affords as sight, sound, and intellection," then I don't necessarily think > Morice's poem misses "the point of poetry," though you may feel, in > overwhelming one with sound, it tends to ruin, or at least obscure, the > pleasure it affords. But I would hardly think this means it misses the > point, more that it seizes the point perhaps too firmly, in a way you may > find uncomfortable. Maybe you want poetry to obscure the point more -- I > don't know what you want. What is "the point of poetry," as you see it, anyway? > > charles > > > > At 12:44 PM 2/27/2005, you wrote: > >I find this missing the point of poetry as much as these days trying to > >rhyme. > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "mIEKAL aND" > >To: > >Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 7:47 AM > >Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! > > > > > > > Dave Morice's poem Tebahpla extends the alphabet constraint to another > > > level.... > > > > > > http://wordways.com/tebahpla.htm > > > > > charles alexander / chax press > > fold the book inside the book keep it open always > read from the inside out speak then > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 05:00:22 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Todd Shalom Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Out_of_Excuses_AutoReply:_POETICS_Digest_=2D_26_Feb_2005_to_27_Feb_2005_=28#2005=2D59=29?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hi. i'm traveling for the next couple of weeks starting on tuesday, march 1st. (spain and morocco--never been!!) i hope to be far away from computers, so i don't think i'll be checking email much--but i'll respond when i return. thanks, todd ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 16:47:25 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: robert lane Subject: malleable jangle news MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit malleable janglewww.malleablejangle.netfirms.com Malleable Jangle Issue 4 is now online. The March 2005 issue features new poetry from: Louis Armand, Iain Britton, Angela Costi, Christophe Cassamassima, JUS!in KATko, Donna Kuhn, Michael Leddy, Rupert M Loydell, Paul Mitchell, Sarah Pearlstein, Francis Raven, and John West Articles and reviews by: Richard Hillman, and Francis Raven I would like to especially thank Richard and Francis for their contributions, as they were the first contributors who answered the call for articles and reviews. The Australian bowls legend R.T. Harrison has some words of wisdom. I would also like to thank the Henselite company for their generous permission to reprint images from R.T. Harrison’s seminal work: How to Become a Champion at Bowls. Issue 4 March www.malleablejangle.netfirms.com All the best, Robert Lane. p.s. Malleable Jangle is calling for submissions for Issue 5 April online poetry journal malleablejangle the poetry of Robert Lane deja vu workshops --------------------------------- Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 01:10:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Taylor Subject: Anna Marie Guterl on SpiralBridge.org MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Take a minute or five deep breaths and absorb the work of Anna Marie Guterl on SpiralBridge.org "Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted." -Martin Luther King Jr. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.SpiralBridge.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 02:08:39 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: winter... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit .................. .................. .................. 3:00...'nuff sd...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 02:37:18 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "patrick@proximate.org" Subject: Dante's Divine Alphabet Poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I found quieted life dark X midway upon a journey yet Zeno cannot know of night straightforward the good within very rough pathway had been entered ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at proximate.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 02:42:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: ...because the generating image was cold and charming... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed ...because the generating image was cold and charming... ...because filters piled on filters... ...because a null point was reached of no return... ...because of... ...because of something emerging at the far end of the tunnel... ...because of a form of processing or herding processes... ...because of the new-born image arising from the old... ...because of defraying the costs and placental hope... ... http://www.asondheim.org/furry.jpg ... __ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 02:43:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Some mooted english words I don't know - from MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Some mooted english words I don't know - from Nouveau Dictionnaire de Poche, Francais-Anglais et Anglais-Francais Th. Nugent, Paris, 1848 Pickthank, flagoneur Cryal, heron Wherret, donnet un soufflet a Cynegeticks, l'art de la chasse Twiggen, fait de petites branches Hiation, baillement Dace, vandoise Hogoo, haut-gout Depectible, tenace Waleknot, noeud rond Avery, grenier Colter, coutre de charrue Huckelbone, hanche Cuish, cuissart Gove, entasser Outvillain, etre plus mechant Spunging, ecornifierie Petto, poitrine Huer, celui qui fait des huees Bidale, invitation a boire Brabble, querelle Abaft, de l'arriere Devexity, courbure Jazel, pierre precieuse Foh, fi! Gibcat, vieux chat Zedoary, zedoaire Wallwort, parietaire Hox, couper le charret Wamble, soulever Stive, etuver Uberous, abondant Xerophthalmy, xerophthalmie Xystus, xyste Phrenitis, fureur Mooted, deraciner == ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 02:32:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinksy Subject: Fw: reading Comments: To: Acousticlv@aol.com, AdeenaKarasick@cs.com, AGosfield@aol.com, Akpoem2@aol.com, alonech@acedsl.com, Altjazz@aol.com, amirib@aol.com, Amramdavid@aol.com, AnselmBerrigan@aol.com, Barrywal23@aol.com, bdlilrbt@icqmail.com, CarolynMcClairPR@aol.com, CaseyCyr@aol.com, CHASEMANHATTAN1@aol.com, DEEPOP@aol.com, DianeSpodarek@aol.com, Djmomo17@aol.com, Dsegnini1216@aol.com, ekayani@mindspring.com, flint@artphobia.com, ftgreene@juno.com, Gfjacq@aol.com, hillary@filmforum.org, Hooker99@aol.com, jeromerothenberg@hotmail.com, Jeromesala@aol.com, JillSR@aol.com, JoeLobell@cs.com, JohnLHagen@aol.com, kather8@katherinearnoldi.com, Kevtwi@aol.com, LakiVaz@aol.com, Lisevachon@aol.com, nooyawk@att.net, Nuyopoman@AOL.COM, Pedevski@aol.com, pom2@pompompress.com, Rabinart@aol.com, Rcmorgan12@aol.com, reggiedw@comcast.net, RichKostelanetz@aol.com, RnRBDN@aol.com, SHoltje@aol.com, Smutmonke@aol.com, sprygypsy@yahoo.com, Sumnirv@aol.com, velasquez@nyc.com, VITORICCI@aol.com, zeblw@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit paul aaron steve dalachinsky ewith music by matt mottel james hoff john de rosa with special guests thursday march 3 at 5 :30 pm bowery poetry club 307 bowery ( bleecker & houston ) 5$ info 1212-925-5256 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 03:10:39 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Jason Nelson Subject: new electro work: promiscuous design MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I’ve been struggling with a new work....it is 90 percent done and needs honest destructing or praise or anger or steel toed boots. It is based on some speech to text poetics experiments all crafted into a new media experience. There are heaps and heaps of links and hidden things. The title might still suck (gone through various ramifications)… “Promiscuous Design” the url: http://www.secrettechnology.com/species/diaone.html thanks in advance.... Jason Nelson __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 06:47:29 -0500 Reply-To: Ron Silliman Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Silliman's Blog Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@jiscmail.ac.uk, WOM-PO@listserv.muohio.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS Central Park sans Gates: What was that, exactly? Bruce Sterling's Zeitgeist: The Coleridge of cyberpunk takes on Y2K=20 and parenting Lyn Hejinian's sentence: inviting, inclusive, powerful RIP Hunter S. Thompson Where will poetry be in 20 years? Looking for a stake in the ground Erica Weitzman, Laura Sims, Jon Cone & the new Six by Six Prose poem magazines =E2=80=93 what do they mean? (with an aside on the politics of haiku) Wonk-talk on the web: Geof Huth & Michael Hoerman discuss intuition, daily life, Fibonacci Restless precision: David Gitin's Passing Through Fictive Certainties: A Robert Duncan for the age of theory Exchanges =E2=80=93 Reading Robert Duncan's unpublished 3rd section of the HD Book A season in DSL Hell PhillySound interviews Silliman: of Woundwood, pens & process http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 09:30:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Nick Piombino's ::fait accompli:: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ::fait accompli:: http://nickpiombino.blogspot.com Opening "The Gates" on the Christo and Jeanne-Claude Central Park installation; and the recent design show at the Cooper-Hewitt including furniture designs by Richard Tuttle link to http://willtoexchange.blogspot.com/ Tom Beckett's blog *e-x-c-h-a-n-g-e-v-a-l-u-e-s-* where Tom has posted an interview we just completed. many links, including a link to *Infinity*, a visual poetry show opening Thursday, March 3rd at Dudley House at Harvard U. http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~dudley/fellows/lit/2004-5/vispo%20cfp.htm (will include my collage *1998* to be posted on the website on the day of the opening) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 07:01:53 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: Nick Piombino's ::fait accompli:: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Christo's giving away the saffron squares seems to me a "realization" of Ono's "Part Painting" which has had variatous incarnations over the years. Sometimes a vase or other object is broken and the physical pieces are given to the audience. Other times it is purely conceptual: cards are given out with part numbers inscribed on them. At my Yoko Ono show/talk at the Poetry Project last year I took a collaborative work the audience created (a realization of Ono's instruction for "Circle Painting" from Grapefruit) and cut it into pieces to give to the audience. We had pre-written part numbers on the other side of the painting. My favorite realization of this work is "Piece of the Sky" which Ono I think had done before 9/11/01, but re-did more widely after that. In this realization, postcards were distributed with blue squares on them. These were "pieces of the sky." Importantly different from Christo's disassembling of the "Gates" in two ways. First, Ono's "sky" while along the lines of "framing device" like the Gates, is purely conceptual, ie never existed in physical form, though that sense of an intangible object (sky as solid object) breaking in the days and weeks after 9/11 was very real in media and individual consciousness (for me anyhow). But second, in all of Ono's distrubution, there is some kind of "promise" to meet again, to put the broken object back together again. The meeting is sometimes physical, ie delineated with specific time frame ('in ten years' etc) sometimes cheekily physical (not able to be actual, i.e 'March 33rd') and sometimes purely conjectural, conceptual, or mental. Just thoughts. K __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:57:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Edwin Torres at Wayne State Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Diasporic Avant-Gardes presents! Edwin Torres Nuyorican Futurist Performance Poet and Recording Artist (Kill Rock Stars) Author of The All-Union Day of the Shock Worker (New York: Roof Books, 2001) Performance Friday, March 4, 7:30 PM The Scarab Club, 217 E. Farnsworth, Detroit Preceded by an informal discussion at 11 AM 10th Floor Conference Room, 5057 Woodward Wayne State University, Detroit "Edwin Torres is the bastard love child of Vladimir Mayakovsky and Nicanor= =20 Parra, midwifed by Guillaume Apollinaire," wrote Christian Haye in The=20 Poetry Project Newsletter. If there has ever been a poet who may be guilty= =20 of hybridity or syncreticism or multiple influences or unnameable practices= =20 or being over the top, it is Torres. Critics say things about him like,=20 "It's hard to wrestle meaning from the shreds of language he tosses out.=20 And on paper, Torres seems to make as much sense as a Port Authority=20 schizophrenic"--which is as much to say that they are impressed,=20 challenged, wondering, intrigued, and looking for more. Otherwise put,=20 Torres works between and among languages, aesthetics, genres, and makes new= =20 meaning out of all of them. He is a master at creating new affects--states= =20 of feeling that never existed until you saw them live on stage. His bio reads: "Edwin Torres is a bilingual poet, rooted in the languages=20 of both sight and sound. He's been creating text and performance work since= =20 1988. Mingling the textures of poetry with vocal & physical improvisation,= =20 sound-elements and visual theater . . . his live performances create=20 organic landscapes that exist beyond language. His introduction to poetry=20 was through The Nuyorican Poets Cafe and The St. Marks Poetry Project,=20 where he=92s worked as workshop leader and curator. His debut CD Holy Kid=20 (Kill Rock Stars) combines poetry with music, sounds and homemade tapes,=20 and is included in the exhibition The American Century Pt. II at The=20 Whitney Museum of American Art. "From 1993-99, he was a member of the poetry collective, Real Live Poetry=20 (formerly Nuyorican Poets Cafe Live) with whom he performed and conducted=20 workshops across the United States and overseas, applying his practice to=20 many situations; from schools to farms, from festivals to beaches, from=20 Alaska to Australia, from beer halls to Memphis. He's also collaborated=20 with a variety of performers, musicians, dancers, videographers, poets &=20 lithographers . . . opening all available portals (you still with me?).=20 He's been the recipient of a one-year fellowship from The Foundation For=20 Contemporary Performance Art, as well as The Nuyorican Poets Cafe Fresh=20 Prize For Poetry . . . applause . . . among other awards. "Finally, (where is the legacy of a bitter fool) his media assault has=20 transpired on MTV=92s Spoken Word Unplugged and The Charlie Rose Show and=20 then (do you really want to know all this) on Newsweek, Rolling Stone, New= =20 York Magazine, High Times (I am NOT anti-drug). In NYC, Torres (as he calls= =20 himself) has performed at many venues like (here we go) the Nuyorican Poets= =20 Cafe, Dixon Place (hello Ellie), The Guggenheim Museum, CBGB's, Tonic, my=20 mother=92s kitchen, P.S. 122, WFMU Radio, Lincoln Center, The Museum Of=20 Modern Art=85and he=92s still confusing a lot of folks." His books include: Fractured Humorous (Subpress), The All-Union Day off The= =20 Shock Worker (Roof Books), and Onomalingua: Noise Songs and Poetry=20 (Rattapallax Press). His work has be anthologized in Short Fuse=20 (Rattapallax Press), Role Call (Third World Press), Poetry Nation (Vehicule= =20 Press), Heights of The Marvelous (St. Martins Press), An Anthology of (New)= =20 American Poets (Talisman Press), Verses That Hurt (St. Martins Press), and= =20 ALOUD: Voices from the Nuyorican Poets Cafe (Henry Holt Press). He has=20 also appeared in poetry journals Chain, The World, Cross-Cultural Poetics,= =20 Longshot, Bombay Gin, PomPom, Lungfull, Ixnay, and others. His web presence may be accessed at http://www.brainlingo.com/ http://poetry.about.com/cs/reviewsessays/a/perfpoetorres.htm http://www.rattapallax.com/eboo= k_torres.htm=20 http://www.ubu.com/contemp/torres/torres.html http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/torrese/ and the reading flyer may be downloaded at http://www.e= nglish.wayne.edu/fac_pages/ewatten/pdfs/torres.pdf ***** Diasporic Avant-Gardes is curated by Barrett Watten, Carla Harryman, and=20 Charles Stivale, and sponsored by an Innovative Projects Grant, WSU=20 Humanities Center. For more info contact Carla Harryman at=20 c.harryman@wayne.edu / 313-577-4988. Free admission; the public is=20 cordially invited. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 11:40:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Some words about Vowels I need Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 THo ToBiHPLi by David Morice & Christophe Casamassima Owoke! Os octors ofterword omoss, On ortfyl ogent olmost octs on oss Ond osks oloyd, =93Ore octeng orts oboyt On ortest=92s oct? On octor=92s ort?=94 Olos! Beleeveng books, beseecheng brooks, beloy Beyond brown bookstores by breokwoter=92s boy! Bold bones, bent by brood bendengs, beor breght books; Byt books boynd bodly, boldly breok, betroy. Con comecs coper, cheer, coroyse, consort, Coll centoyrs =93cows,=94 chose copteves, chollenge coyrt? Con cortoons core, con colors cry, con crees Coyrogeoysly cloem cots connot covort?=20 Defyeng dreoms, deboseng down=92s dork drym, Desentegroteng, droppeng downword, dymb, Dyll doltesh devels donce, defy deoth=92s doors, Doft dogs defendeng dreom=92s delereym. Eoch empere=92s elevoted engeneers Enveseoned eyes, evolyoted eors. Eoch enterprese eventyolly ends: Engoge! Elope! Eternety endeors! For freends, fend foes! For foes, fend freends! Fotes flee! For fools, fend fools! Feor feckle fortyne=92s fee. From fobrecoteng fomene for foyl flesh, Fresh feshes, freends, fend foncy feost for free. Good gentle gyrys greet. Good gyests gyrote, Geve gyedonce, gloweng gelt, grond golden gote. Gods generoysly gront gold gefts golore. Greot greedy geonts go gestecylote. Hes hot hos hedden hoer, hes hoer hedes hoy. He hopes he=92ll hove hes heovenly hooroy. Her home hos her, he holds her hopefyl heort: He hopes he hoels her hoppeest heydoy. E enk edeos enspered en enfoncy. Ets empoct es engrown en erony. E ellystrote et ef et esolotes Econoclostec eombs enstontly. Jyne=92s joyfyl jows jolt joyoys jomboree, Jot jeffy jymbled jegsows, jettery. Jydeceoys jests jyst jor jejyne Jyly, Joy=92s jellybeons jydge jokeng jollety. Kengs knowengly knock knoves, keck knovesh knee. Knoves know kneghts kendly kell kenetecolly. Keng=92s keepsokes=97kesses, kendleng, kennekennek=97 Keep kneckknocks knetteng kendred keckshows=92 key. Love=92s lemetoteons level lovers=92 lest. Lest lyst lost lost, let=92s loot lefe=92s legolest. Let=92s lenger, lockeng leqyor, lyeng low: Lyck=92s love locks lover=92s lyckless lyrecest. My myse=92s modcop mysec moy moroon My Mestress Moonleght. Medneght=92s mod monsoon Moy memec mentol merrors=92 mogec moze. Moke merry, Mob! My mortol mosk=92s my moon. Nonentetees nex notheng, notefy New novelests: =93Now neghtfoll=92s neorly negh!=94 No nymerology=92s next nymber=92s none. Nonelleon nothengs never nyllefy. Oyr orders often openly oppose Oregenolety. One overthrows Oneself on orphec orocles of old Or orbets over oddetees one owes. Pyre poet! Pen pyre perfect poetry! Pyt pyrple prose post poor phelosophy. Petch porogrophs, potch poges, ponder pyns, Poent ponoromec poems pensevely. Qyoent qyorrels qyell qyototeons=92 qyorontenes: Qyet qyeppeng, qyontefyeng qyenedenes. Qyezzed qyorterbocks qyote qyeet qyesteonnoeres; Qyests qyeckly qyosh qyodrotec qyose-qyeens Remember rhyme, remember rhythm=92s rote? Romontec reverees reverse, restote Row roses reocheng reoson=92s rosy red. Rosh rows reod roses: Rhythms, rhymes relote. Some sonnets seng! See Shokespeore=92s sonnets soy, =93Sholl softer soynds sove sprengteme=92s short sweet stoy?=94 Soon spreng=92s songs sow seeds, syckle symmer=92s soyl. Stell, seosons=92 sonnets syffer, shever, swoy. Ten thoysond toosts to those thot toste the tede, Thot toke the tongye, thot tell the toles thot treed The teors, the troybleng trogedees, the teme=97 The teme thot toyched the tryths thot terrefeed. Yse yneversol ynety, yneted, Ynless yncevel ynderdogs ynwrete. Yncompromeseng ygly yselessness Yncovers ynderlengs to ynderwrete! Vele verses vex voen vergen=92s vonety. Vem=92s vegor veels voroceoys votory. Vost volyntory Venys voeds voen vows. Vexed verses, veereng, vonesh vesebly. Whot weother were we wonteng? Where were we=20 When wends woshed words weth woter wellengly? Who wretes, why wrete, when weother=92s wherleng weld? We woke weth weshes wodeng westfylly. Xontheppe, Xerox Xonody=92s xonthene, X-roy X-roted x-secteon=92s xylene. Xylogrophy=92s X-oxes? Xylophones X-roy Xontheppe=92s xerec xyledene. Yoyr yockeng yoythfylness yells yoyr =93Yohoo!=94 Yet yeors yow, yeorneng, yowneng, yoppeng. Yoy Yelled yesterdoy! Yoy yeeld! Yoyr yesteryeor Yowps yonder: Yes, yoy yodel yoyr =93yoo-hoo.=94 Zen=92s zebros zero zephyrs zestely, Zop zeppeng, zoomeng zebys zonely. Zeng! Zeoloys zethers zeg, zookeepers zog. Zoo zombees zegzog zoologecolly. --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 11:59:56 -0500 Reply-To: Mike Kelleher Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Kelleher Organization: Just Buffalo Literary Center Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 2-28-05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Friends of Just Buffalo, The past several weeks have been extremely trying for the many residents, workers and cultural organizations of Erie County. Although we do not yet know the extent of the cuts to the $55,650 we were set to receive from Erie County this year, the current version of the budget cuts us -- as well as 42 other small to mid-sized arts organizations -- to zero, which means we will lose 15% of our operating budget. More importantly, the money we lose is unrestricted, which means it can be used as needed for things like salaries and rent. As a supporter of Just Buffalo we want you to know that we are not in any immediate danger of closing, and that we will continue to support the writing community and teach the writing arts to under-served communities in Buffalo despite the bungling of our politicians. But we also want you to know that we are at significant risk of reductions in programming, staff time, and staff positions, and that these reductions will necessarily produce significant changes in the way we operate. Successfully meeting this challenge will depend more than ever on the communities we serve. To put it bluntly: to continue our mission we need our supporters to reach into their wallets to make a donation. For 30 years, Just Buffalo has been the only independent literary center in Buffalo. Please help us make another 30 possible. Sincerely, The Board and Staff of Just Buffalo Literary Center ###### IN THE HIBISCUS ROOM Second Annual Erotica Open Reading Friday, March 4, 7:30 p.m. $4, $3 student, $2 members Spread a sheet. Whip out a pen. Lay down some erotica. Just Buffalo's annual Erotic Open Reading, hosted by Madame Karen Lewis, is back. Get the juices flowing! Push boundaries! Sexperiment! Open to all who desire (and write about it). Readings limited to 5 minutes per person. WORKSHOPS Continuing: You can still sign up for this workshop at a pro-rated cost for the next 6 weeks. PLAYWRITING BASICS, with Kurt SchneIderman 8 Tuesdays, February 15- April 5, 7-9 p.m. $250, $200 for members Playwright Basics is a weekly workshop open to novice and experienced playwrights alike. The purpose of the course is to allow participants to develop playwriting abilities through actual writing and in-class feed back. Structured as a workshop, the format will allow all participants to produce and bring in their own work to be read aloud and critiqued by everyone involved. In addition there will be readinga of various classic theatre texts and discussion of playwriting structure and theory. Participants can expect to emerge from this course with some written and workshopped dialogue, and with an introduction to the overall theoretical framework of dramatic writing. Kurt Schneiderman is currently the Dramaturg for the Buffalo Ensemble Theatre, the Co ordinator of the annual new play competition the Area Playwrights' Performance Series, and the Director of the monthly new play forum Play Readings & Stuff. Named one of "Buffalo's emerging young playwrights" by Gusto Magazine and Buffalo's "next A.R. Gurney" by Artvoice Magazine, Kurt was the winner of the Helen Mintz Award for Best New Play (2003) and was nominated for the Artie Award for Outstanding New Play (2004). Most recently, one of Kurt's plays was chosen for the 2004 Toronto Fringe Festival. Also know for his work as dramatic critic, Kurt has written theatrical reviews for Outcome, Buffalo Beat, Blue Dog, Traffic East, and Nightlife Magazines. Currently he is a staff writer for the Buffalo Jewish Review. TRIMANIA 2005 The Buffalo's biggest party is back - March 19, 2005. Visit http://www.justbuffalo.org/events/special_events.shtml For details, or call 832-5400. ALSO: WE NEED VOLUNTEERS FOR THE EVENT! Download the volunteer application from the Just Buffalo website (scroll down for URL). 2ND ANNUAL BOOMDAYS POETRY CONTEST BOOMDAYS is a celebration of the advent of Spring, commencing each year with the lifting of the Lake Erie-Niagara River Ice Boom. It will be held on Friday, April 1 at The Pier from 4:00 PM to midnight. Contest: Write a poem about the beginning of spring. All forms of poetry are acceptable. First Prize- $200.00 Second Prize- $150.00 Third Prize- $100.00 Winning poems will be published in Artvoice and winners will be introduced by poet Janine Pomy Vega at the event. Winners must be able to read their work at the BOOMDAYS kickoff event, April 1 at The Pier from 4:00 PM to midnight. Guidelines: All ages welcome to apply. Poems should be typed and should not exceed a single page in length. Each entrant may submit only one poem. Please include name, address, and telephone number with entry. Deadline for submission is March 15, 2004. Send entries to: BOOMDAYS Poetry Contest Just Buffalo Literary Center 2495 Main Street, Suite 512 Buffalo, New York 14214 IF ALL OF BUFFALO READ THE SAME BOOK This year's title, The Invention of Solitude, by Paul Auster, is available at area bookstores. All books purchased at Talking Leaves Books will benefit Just Buffalo. Paul Auster will visit Buffalo October 5-6. A reader's discussion guide is available on the Just Buffalo website. Presented in conjunction with Hodgson Russ LLP, WBFO 88.7 FM and Talking Leaves Books. For sponsorship opportunities (and there are many), please contact Laurie Torrell or Mike Kelleher at 832-5400. COMMUNITY LITERARY EVENTS CANISIUS CONTEMPORARY WRITERS SERIES Eavan Boland Thursday, March 3, 8 P.M. Montante Cultural Center TALKING LEAVES BOOKS Molly Stevens Booksigning: All About Braising Sunday, March 6, 3 p.m. Talking Leaves, Elmwood POETICS PLUS @ UB Daniel Tiffany Reading and Talk Thursday, March 3, 12.30 P.M. (Readings); 4 P.M. (Talk) Poetry and Rare Books Collection, UB North Campus EXCHANGE RATE READING SERIES Bill Bissett & Adeena Karasick Friday March 4, 8 p.m. Rust Belt Books THE CASTELLANI ART MUSEUM At Niagara University Faith Ringgold: Paint Me A Story February 4 - April 10, 2005 Event: ART EXPRESS Saturday, March 5, 2:00 - 4:00 p.m. $2 members; $3 non-members. Book & art: Faith Ringgold, Bonjour Lonnie Activity: Make your own storybook UNSUBSCRIBE If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will be immediately removed. _______________________________ Mike Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center 2495 Main St., Ste. 512 Buffalo, NY 14214 716.832.5400 716.832.5710 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk@justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 12:12:37 -0500 Reply-To: Mike Kelleher Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Kelleher Organization: Just Buffalo Literary Center Subject: Fw: poetry sale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable TALKING LEAVES.BOOKS 3158 MAIN STREET BUFFALO, NY 14214 (716) 837-8554/(fax) 837-3861 tleaves@tleavesbooks.com There comes a time in the life of every..bookstore (in this case this = bookstore, Talking Leaves), when the desire to stock every useful, = wonderful, compelling, exotic, interesting, unusual, extreme, = essential..book smashes into (or in this case, gently nudges) the = constraints of space and of stark economics. Though keeping books on = the shelves forever, or as long as possible, is the admirable and = necessary goal of libraries, bookstores are different critters, = requiring a different sustenance. That overgrown forest at the original = Talking Leaves on Main Street known as the poetry section has had to = undergo some judicious culling and cutting, so that the new growth has a = chance to thrive. Confirmed poetry lovers can build or replenish their = collections, and initiates can take a chance with these specially priced = volumes. All books in the specially priced sale section are now 40% = off, and Talking Leaves and just buffalo members get an additional 10% = off their purchases. Some of these books have been on our shelves for a decade or more, and = they will not be around forever, so we encourage you to stop by soon, = and often. Treat yourself to a bargain that will keep you mentally = stimulated for the rest of your life, and help us to keep the gift that = is poetry moving. The sale section has plenty of other offerings as = well. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 12:30:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Re: POST AN ALPHABET POEM! In-Reply-To: <20050224185923.E659913F45@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable America=B9s been causing death everywhere for getting how it just kills love many now ok policy question reality savor thought utterly very whacky yucky zealots On 2/24/05 1:59 PM, "furniture_ press" wrote= : > here's mine: >=20 > acrimony! but can dis easy fret grant his insistence? > justice kan limp money now! och! por qua reviled > so tupperwarelike. u vow > with x-elent wisdom, zohar. >=20 > christophe casamassima >=20 >=20 > www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:25:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Traffic Subject: Sailers & Schaefer at SPT this Friday 3/4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Small Press Traffic presents Friday, March 4, 2005 at 7:30 p.m. Cynthia Sailers & Standard Schaefer Local heroine Cynthia Sailers joins us in celebration of her first full-length collection, Lake Systems, from Tougher Disguises. Sailers is a California native (San Diego, 1974) who now lives in Alameda and co-curates the New Brutalism Reading Series in Oakland. Her work has or will appear in various journals, including Aufgabe, 14 Hills, LitVert.com, pompom, Small Tiger, Barn (v.), and Involuntary Vision: Poems after Kurosawa's Dreams. Standard Schaefer's debut collection, Nova (Sun & Moon, 1999), was a National Poetry Series selection. He is the former editor of Rhizome, and currently an editor of The New Review of Literature, as well as a freelance journalist and contributor to counterpunch.org. Newly relocated to San Francisco, Schaefer joins us tonight in celebration of his second book, Water and Power, just out from Agincourt Press. Unless otherwise noted, events are $5-10, sliding scale, free to SPT members, and CCA faculty, staff, and students. Unless otherwise noted, our events are presented in Timken Lecture Hall California College of the Arts 1111 Eighth Street, San Francisco (just off the intersection of 16th & Wisconsin) Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCA 1111 -- 8th Street San Francisco, CA 94107 415.551.9278 http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 13:38:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: Sailers & Schaefer at SPT this Friday 3/4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Sailers' poems also appear in Ambit : Journal of Poetry & Poetics, but I've= been behind on the matter, so we're coming out in March. Grab copies while= you can! there's only about 90 left! Christophe Casamassima ----- Original Message ----- From: "Small Press Traffic" To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Sailers & Schaefer at SPT this Friday 3/4 Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:25:45 -0800 >=20 > Small Press Traffic presents > Friday, March 4, 2005 at 7:30 p.m. > Cynthia Sailers & Standard Schaefer >=20 > Local heroine Cynthia Sailers joins us in celebration of her first full-l= ength > collection, Lake Systems, from Tougher Disguises. Sailers is a California > native (San Diego, 1974) who now lives in Alameda and co-curates the New > Brutalism Reading Series in Oakland. Her work has or will appear in vario= us > journals, including Aufgabe, 14 Hills, LitVert.com, pompom, Small Tiger, = Barn > (v.), and Involuntary Vision: Poems after > Kurosawa's Dreams. >=20 > Standard Schaefer's debut collection, Nova (Sun & Moon, 1999), was a Nati= onal > Poetry Series selection. He is the former editor of Rhizome, and currentl= y an > editor of The New Review of Literature, as well as a freelance journalist= and > contributor to counterpunch.org. Newly relocated to San Francisco, Schaef= er > joins us tonight in celebration of his second book, Water and Power, just= out > from Agincourt Press. >=20 >=20 > Unless otherwise noted, events are $5-10, sliding scale, free to SPT > members, and CCA faculty, staff, and students. > Unless otherwise noted, our events are presented in > Timken Lecture Hall > California College of the Arts > 1111 Eighth Street, San Francisco (just off the intersection of 16th & > Wisconsin) >=20 >=20 >=20 > Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Director > Small Press Traffic > Literary Arts Center at CCA > 1111 -- 8th Street > San Francisco, CA 94107 > 415.551.9278 > http://www.sptraffic.org www.towson.edu/~cacasama/furniture/poae --=20 _______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just= US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 13:46:05 -0500 Reply-To: kevin thurston Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: new electro work: promiscuous design In-Reply-To: <20050228111039.52146.qmail@web30201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable it'd be nice if it all fit in my screen On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 03:10:39 -0800, Jason Nelson wrote= : > I've been struggling with a new work....it is 90 > percent done and needs honest destructing or praise > or anger or steel toed boots. It is based on some > speech to text poetics experiments all crafted into a > new media experience. There are heaps and heaps of > links and hidden things. >=20 > The title might still suck (gone through various > ramifications)=E2=80=A6 >=20 > "Promiscuous Design" >=20 > the url: > http://www.secrettechnology.com/species/diaone.html >=20 > thanks in advance.... >=20 > Jason Nelson >=20 >=20 > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 11:30:50 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Christo Comments: To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit For an historic note, when Christo was a teenager in Bulgaria - in the late Forties - one of his summer jobs was to live and work on a collective farm located beside the Orient Express. He and other workers took responsibility for ordering mowed hay into bales that they neatly stacked and covered with colored tarps. The image of these well ordered and colorful stacks was to present a persuasive, well organized and aesthetically attractive image of the socialist Bulgarian Government to travelers on the Orient Express - many of whom were from Europe and America, including countries that were in high debate about whether or not to become entirely or partially Socialist. The covered hay stacks were considered a highly effective form of socialist advertising. Every time I see a Christo project I marvel at how his career has taken off from that first Bulgarian experience in making public art occur in such a diversity of contexts with a diversity potential intentions, or what more often happens, in a space of "non-intention" over which the artist waxes no control. The materials are always only one half of the event; the other half is what both individual and the public bring into the environment. It's in this alchemy of the combination of materials and person(s) that something transcends into another space - at least for a moment or a sustained moment. In Hannad Arendt's terms, the site becomes a place of public disclosure - in which the environment (including it's historical associations), objects and persons become actors on a stage, one in which we partake both as our own experience, and the witness to the enactments of those of others. One might, for examplem juxtapose this kind of public experience with Fox Network (as a site) - where space is entirely enclosed, claustrophobically so, and "we" as individuals or a group are permitted no disclosure at all. Ideally its one in which authority - in all senses - returns to the members of the Polis. The Christos in that sense are only responsible for creating a stage that permits the event. Stephen V Blog: http://stephenvincent.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:13:22 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brenda Coultas Subject: More from Brad Will, Call to Action March 4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit massacre in Brazil:call to action 3/4/05 En / Pt / Es / Se -------------------------EN---------------------------------------------- This is a call to action. There was a massacre here on February 16th at a squatters encampment eviction. The squatters community is calling for a global day of action, this friday on march 4th. They will march here for justice for the disappeared and to reclaim their lost land. The constitution of Brazil promises housing for the people and makes it illegal to leave land abandoned and in speculation. The occupation was a fufillment of that promise. People from all over the world will be acting autonomously at Brazilian consulates and embassies. Any action will be helpful no matter the size. Have everyone call, fax, email. Enter and demand to be heard. Protest outside against the police action and the cover up that followed. They have bulldozed the entire community, destoryed almost 3000 homes, erased important evidence, possibly corpses. These people acted spontaneously and autonomously outside of political parties and organizations to occupy urban blighted land. Please act together in solidarity with the poorest people of Brazil who have risked their lives for a simple home. www.midiaindependente.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 23:37:46 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Magee Subject: analphabet/a-wy/('another in the way of the other') MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit there is another in the way of the other in the way there is to the way in the way of the other in the other of the way there is another in the way that way around about the time to the way of the time in the waiting for the time of the waiting in the time to be in that time of the waiting of the time there is to be waiting in the writing of waiting in the time to be until the time in the time there way in the way of the time that there has been and in that way it remains the same and the becoming of the time in the way of the time of the same in the way of the time in the way of the same in the way of time don't bother me don't bother with me the other the way of the into the warm ways of the writing the way to the writing where is it where has it been for the time of this time and that time too in the way of the writing in the way of the text of the writing why doesn't thought flow or float why does it adhere to the syntax of the time of the way of the time of the writing of that time in the way of the time of the way to the writing in the way of the text of the time in the text of this time this is the text for the time being why shouldn't there be this kind of writing with the other writing in the way of the writing into the square of the text of the time of the text in the writing why not this writing and that and the thought if the thought ever arrives in the time of the text in the writing of the time of the way that it's waiting in its own time for the time of the waiting that isn't writing what is what is not what is for the time of the text of the sound in the space of the room in the time of the room's being in the way of the time of the text this time of the way that the writing doesn't come from the interior anymore in the way that way also that is also a ways away in the sea in the sky of the empty signs of the road away of the time of the tea is it time for tea in the way of the being of the time this time of the way for the writing to be this way and in the way that it is and it doesn't feel anymore of the way of the writing in the time of the text of the time of the way this way for the time of the way of the writing away for the time of the text this time ins the time of the empty way of the time of the time of the time all the time going away and on the way of the object formed does an object form in the frame of the form of the time of the text of this time and that time in the way it is in the way it is writing and it is in the way of the time in the time that it way and that also is that time in that way that and around of the way of the time to the day of the time in the way that way also is the way to the day that time in the way that time in the tie of the tire and that time in the way of the time when there is and there is not happen wanshape leafmeal sty for the time in the way of that which it was and it is, for the time being, it is -- Kevin Magee http://hypobololemaioi.com http://hypobolemaioi.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:15:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: [razapress] Chicano Power MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Chicano Power: Yesterday, Today, and Tomorrow Educate and Liberate! Raza Studies Program Spring Semester 2005 Pablo Aceves, a member of Union del Barrio, a movement activist for over 20 years, and author of the The Stolen Revolution and numerous articles on Raza liberation, will be the facilitator for this Raza Studies Session. Pablo will lead a discussion on what was meant by “Chicano Power” in the late 1960s and 1970s, and the significance of this term today. The discussion will be lively and educational. For almost two decades, the Raza Studies Programs have been held in various barrios of San Diego: in schools, community youth centers, and at Union del Barrio headquarters. The objectives of the Raza Studies Program are: 1. Educate/Inform young people about Raza History, Politics, and Culture. 2. Through Raza Studies create/instill pride and positive self-esteem among Raza youth. 3. Create unity among Raza youth and end the mindless violence that takes place daily throughout the Barrios of Aztlan. 4. Assist/Motivate young Raza to continue their education (high school, college, etc.). 5. Raise the social consciousness of youth and get them involved in the struggle for Raza self-determination (create progressive social activists). 6. Prepare others (specially young people) to become Raza Studies instructors and teachers. This Spring's Raza Studies Program is being organized in a round table discussion (circulos de discusion) format/structure: a guest presenter is asked to give comments on a particular issue and everyone is encouraged to asked questions or give comments (feed back). We are currently on our six session (discussion) of the Raza Studies Program Spring Semester 2005. Past sessions have included (1) Introduction to Raza Studies, (2) Issues Facing Youth, (3) Why Some Raza Youth End Up In Prison-The Reality of Prison Life, (4) Waking Up La Raza: Why and How To Publish a Newspaper or Newsletter in Your School or Barrio, (5) and La Mujer Mexicana. The six session of the Spring Semester will take place at 5 PM, Wednesday, March 2 (2005), at the Yo Spot Youth Center, located on the corner of 41 and Market St., San Diego. Come and Learn. Become an activist. Support the Struggle. Participate in the Raza Studies Program. Venceremos! for more information, reply to this e-mail or call Ernesto at (619) 266-5731 <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/razapress/ ___\ Stay Strong\ \ "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" \ --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as)\ \ "This mathematical rhythmatical mechanism enhances my wisdom\ of Islam, keeps me calm from doing you harm, when I attack, it's Vietnam"\ --HellRazah\ \ "It's not too good to stay in a white man's country too long"\ --Mutabartuka\ \ "As for we who have decided to break the back of colonialism, \ our historic mission is to sanction all revolts, all desperate \ actions, all those abortive attempts drowned in rivers of blood."\ - Frantz Fanon\ \ "Everyday is Ashura and every land is Kerbala"\ -Imam Ja'far Sadiq\ \ http://www.sleepybrain.net/vanilla.html\ \ http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/766_0_15_0_C/ \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/\ \ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 17:29:07 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: A Piece of My Noisy Endless Double That Echoes Forgot Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed some slave perished over his oar - these limbs must belong to some other slave, fictional, a low motion from a lofty actor who cried to applause "all moss our cries all moss" upon crisping handfuls of script to his lip "we sang, mourn- ful and wrong, asphodel & asphodel, the thorn smiled at our names for the thorn" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 20:07:31 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ben Bedard Subject: alphabet poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And BaCkwarD call dancing Energies FlashinG gorgeous HearIng insects Juggle KiLlers laMiNating mOney no others Postulated Quickness Rancid SeveriTy thUnder ulterior Vanguard Wars Xantrac Yes ZAP ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 22:44:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gregory Betts Subject: Re: alphabet poem In-Reply-To: <193.3a82e0b1.2f551a53@cs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 26 in 10 (53 in total) ABCess DEaFeninG HIJinKs LaMeNt hOPe QuiRk STUdy VieW X-raY oZ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 19:47:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Del Ray Cross Subject: SHAMPOO 23 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Dear Glamourpuss, SHAMPOO issue 23 is eagerly awaiting your lovely locks. =20 Please conspicuously catwalk over to: =20 www.ShampooPoetry.com and lather up with poetry by Tim Yu, Muesser Yeniay, J. Marcus=20 Weekley, Alli Warren, Mike Topp, Shannon Tharp, Andrew=20 Slattery, Barry Schwabsky, Cassandra Schiemann, C. Allen=20 Rearick, Stephen Ratcliffe, James Penha, Ronald Palmer, Wanda=20 O'Connor, William Moot, rob mclennan, Eric Low, Jon Leon,=20 David Koehn, Stephen Kirbach, Raud Kennedy, Christine Neacole=20 Kanownik, Malia Jackson, Yuri Hospodar, August Highland, Jeff=20 Harrison, Nada Gordon, Ethan Fugate, Monica Fauble, Olivia Cronk,=20 Bruce Covey, Amy M. Conger, Todd Colby, Brandon Brown, Jason=20 Bredle, Taylor Brady, Kelly Bartolotta, Glenn Bach, Jane Adam; plus=20 do enjoy glamtastic ShampooArt by Nico Wijaya. =20 Thank you for looking so good! =20 Next up: 5 Year SHAMPOO Anniversary Extravaganza (stay tuned)! Scrub-it-cuz-you-lub-it, Del Ray Cross, Editor SHAMPOO clean hair / good poetry www.ShampooPoetry.com (if you'd rather not get these little updates, just let me know)